This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you in a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll school you on burning dream cats
You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the cruisers
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAM, SIP, SIS
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
Welcome everyone to Binary Revolution Radio Episode 45
I am Stank Dog on the mic as usual
You are listening to Episode 45
Coming up on the Big 5-0 very soon
And this is originally airing on May 11th, 5-11-2004
And this is a very special episode
Because we have a new, very special first time co-host
Cy Pete is in the house, say hello
Hello everybody
Cy Pete of course is a good friend of mine
I've been helping out with a lot of projects
That we've been working on
And been published in the infamous Binary Revolution magazine
Great article by the way
Great articles
I guess I'm letting the cat out of the bag
For a future article there
But that's alright
Now bear with me a little bit here
And let me go through
What I normally do with one of the first episodes each month
Is kind of go through some statistics from the previous month
A lot of people find this interesting
A lot of people find it boring
But personally I like to see it
I like to check out where hits are coming from
You can find some pretty good information
A little statistics nut that I am
So let me go through some of this
So bear with me a little bit here
First of all
Hopefully the listeners know that Hack TV dropped this past month
And we put up a BitTorrent to help ease our bandwidth
However, I seeded the BitTorrent also from the same server
So really even though you're hitting the BitTorrent
And BitTorrent of course being a file sharing application
Or a downloading tool as I like to refer to it
I hate when people call it a peer-to-peer application
It's not
It's a downloading tool
It is peer-to-peer
Well, yes, but
Not in the traditional sense
Like Kazaa
You know, I don't like it used in the same breath as Kazaa
And e-mule and e-donkey and those kind of things
It's kind of a different
Anyway
We had this debate at the 2600 meeting one time
That we did
And I won
Well, I'll give it that it is peer-to-peer
By its setup
I'll give you that
It's just a different model
I mean, you know
It is quite different from Kazaa and the other networks
Because, you know
You can't like search for files and stuff like that
But considering the fact
That about a thousand different people
Can be sending me the same file at the same time
I consider it peer-to-peer
Right
And it is
Technically, it is definitely peer-to-peer
It's just that so many people
It's just like a pet peeve of mine
Because people start using it in the same breath
With Kazaa
And with iMesh
And all these other ones
And I just
I don't know
See
I had this rant last week
And I'm not going to relive it today
About how something like BitTorrent
To me is pretty doggone helpful
And useful
For what I needed it for
And that is to put a file out there
It helps ease my bandwidth
And stuff like that
So it's just a pet peeve of mine
When people start classifying it
And lumping it with other applications
As though it were somehow
Nothing but a
A piracy tool
And I'll just leave it at that
It's not
None of them are technically
But they could be used in different ways
But anyway
That's neither here nor there
I was actually
The reason I brought up Hack TV
Is because it had a big impact
On my bandwidth
Even with the BitTorrent up
Like I said
I was seeding it from that site
So even though
Everybody that had it open
Did help alleviate a lot of my bandwidth
Don't get me wrong
It helped a lot
It still ended up getting the majority
Of the bandwidth coming from my site
So my throughput for the month
My bandwidth for the month
Was an all time high
We used just under
Right at almost exactly actually
100 gigabytes of bandwidth
This past month
In April
And that's not counting
Any of the mirrors
We had a lot of people
Volunteer mirrors
Some people reported
That they were using
30 to 40 gigabytes
On their mirrors
So there was a lot of bandwidth
Of people downloading Hack TV
And even this month already
It's obviously too soon
To really start
Talking about those numbers
We'll see how they end up
The month of May
But that's a lot of bandwidth
Getting eaten up with Hack TV
So that is going strong
Also in general
The site
The number of visits
That we get
Has been going up a lot
Some of it
From Hack TV
People finding out
And coming in
I hope
Some of it
Just from general growth
But our average
Visits per day
Is up somewhere around
600
600 visits per day
The number of pages per day
I don't really care about
Because that's just
To me that doesn't really
Mean a whole lot
There's just pages
Or pages
You know
It's the visits
That are important
And before Hack TV
Now this will give you
An idea of how much
Of a spike we got
Before we released Hack TV
The download per day
Was about one gigabyte
One gigabyte of throughput
Per day
After Hack TV
It jumped to about
Three and a half
So that's a pretty big jump
To put it in perspective
And I always like to
And I've got a great
Email coming up
From one of these countries
Or from a country
Later on
The top five countries
Obviously not talking
About US
The top is always
Consistently
Dot com
Dot net
Dot org
Dot edu
That type of stuff
But the top five countries
This time
So you guys can cheer
For your country
As it comes up
Number one was Canada
Number two was
The Netherlands
Which we get a lot
Of hits there
Number three was
Australia
Number four was
From Poland
And number five
From Denmark
So it is very
Widespread
It's so cool
To see all these hits
From all these
Different countries
But when you think
About it
It's kind of like
The progression
Of the amount
Of people
Or you know
The kind of people
That would visit
That site
Are more populous
Among those countries
In that order
Like there's probably
More hackers in Canada
Than there are in Australia
And whatever other
Countries that I forgot
Yeah that would be
You know
It would be interesting
To know what the
Hacker per capita ratio
Is for different countries
Because you know
We all know
And again
Without going into
The soapbox again
How hackers are treated
And thought of
In this country
So in other countries
It's not treated
The same way
It's not looked down upon
In some countries
It's actually respected
And looked upon
Much differently
So
You think we should
Take a census?
I don't know
If we have enough
For that
You know what
The thing is
We get enough email
From different countries
And this is the
Third week in a row
We've got an email
From another exotic
And interesting company
Well exotic to me
Because I don't leave
The United States
Unfortunately
Country
I'm sorry?
Country
You said company
Oh I did?
Yeah
Freudian slip
I have been reprogrammed
Country
Well you know what
I could go on
A little rant about
Country equals company
But I won't go there either
Yay
Yeah
Anyway
So yeah
Those are the countries
Robots
My robots.txt file
From my 2600 article
Last issue
The new one
I just got today
By the way
Today is the
Let's see what is this
The 10th
11th
I just got my issue
In the mail today
So I haven't had
A whole lot of time
To glance at that yet
But my article
From the last one
About the robots.txt
Where I basically
Invited people
To check our
Robots.txt file
Show them how it works
Use some examples
I'm still getting
A lot of hits
From people that are
Just coming in
And directly
You can tell the difference
When somebody's
Hitting it directly
Or when it's coming
From a bot
You can tell by
What user agent
They are using
To hit it
Usually of course
Well that's another story
Googlebot
Is just absolutely
Ream rating the site
Just absolutely
Annihilating my site
3000 pages
That Google has indexed
This past month
Again this is April
Ink to my
Is second
They got around
A thousand
And I'm getting
You know there's a lot
Of other bots in there
We've talked about
Some of the foreign
Search engines and stuff
On the show before
But this time
I saw
Some unusual hits
From something called
MSN bot
You know
So MSN
We talked about before
Is kind of pushing
To start their own
Search engine
And I guess
They're testing it
Right now
And they don't look
The same as other
Bot hits
I'm actually getting
Hits that resolve
Back to a URL
Which I thought
Was really
Really interesting
I'd be very curious
To see how that
Bot is written
And of course
It's Microsoft
So that's never
Going to happen
But I did find
It interesting enough
I decided to go back
And try to research it
And they do have
Some facts
And a little bit
Of information
Public information
About their bot
And how it works
And one of the
Fact questions was
Well and of course
The only people
Who would go back
And find this
Would be people like me
Who are looking to see
Why the bot's
Visiting our site
So one of the questions
In the fact is
Why is MSN bot
Downloading information
From our quote
Secret web server
Well this is something
I've talked about
In the show
Many times before
And I mentioned this
In the robots.txt article
There is no secret
Web server
Or secret websites
If you put it out there
It's going to get found
Even if it's not linked to
But if it's linked to
Especially
You know the way
Spiders work
It's going to find it
There's any hype
And this is their answer
Too
It's basically
You know
It's exactly what I said
Their answer says
If there are any hyperlinks
To your quote
Secret web server
It is no longer a secret
Yeah
We know that
Thank you
MSN bot follows hyperlinks
And will likely
Find this hyperlink
Also if there's a hyperlink
From your secret web server
To another server
Well this will cause
Your secret URL
To be in the referrer tag
Which can be found
By analyzing logs
Of that server
If you have a confidential
Web server
You should use
Password prediction
In addition to
The robots.txt
Defined by the
Robot's exclusion standard
Now the very end
Of my article
In my shout outs
Is thank you to people
Who try to use
Robot's.txt
As a form of security
Well you heard it
Right here from
Microsoft themselves
They say right there
In that answer
I don't know
If they had meant it
But they're saying
That it is perfectly fine
A-okay honky dory
To find and report
Upon stuff that you
Find on their server
You find anything out there
You find something
That's linked to it
They can do it
Why can't we?
Well
Is that what they're saying?
Pretty much
I mean
They're not
Explicitly saying that
So I wouldn't
Actually do that
And try and hold up
In like a court of law
Or something
Well that's not
What they meant to say
Right
But
You could probably
Use them as an example
If you
If you ever had to
Defend yourself
Well Microsoft did it to me
So
Absolutely
Go right back to them
Absolutely
But this brings up
A point I think
That you might have
Mentioned earlier
Of
How exactly
Is this bot
Finding the site
Or
No no no
I think this was
A different article
About
The mail
Or something like that
I
I've been confused myself
Well
Even your
Even mail servers
And such like that
I mean
If you post
Oh man
I gotta be careful here
I have
Seen people
Owned before
The traditional sense
Of the word
Owned
I've seen people's
Drops
Docs dropped
By
Doing google searches
On things
And what ends up
What ends up
Giving them away
Are actually headers
From mail messages
And mail posts
And those can be
Indexed and searched
By
A search engine
They're posted on a website
Intact with the headers
You can find
Mail servers
Secret
Quote secret mail servers
Which is what they were saying here
There are no secret servers
Out there
Speaking of which
Part of that
The fact
That supposedly said
That
That they
Weren't necessarily
Using
The
The MS bot
To index web pages
Or to use it for their
Search.msn.com
Right
That's what I was getting ready to say
That's
That's another thing
From that site
And
I tell you what
You can go ahead and read that
If you want
Because that is really
That's pretty scary
Okay
And this was one of the facts
Right
Once MSN bot
Crawls my site
Will it show up in the search results
On MSN search
The response was
MSN bot
As a prototype crawler
And the crawling
It's doing
Is not necessarily related
To the search results
Found on
Search.msn.com
So
The question posed is
If it's not for the MSN search engine
What the hell are they
Indexing our pages for
Amen
So
I actually had
An idea
Which is that
If you notice
The Google mail
Is getting a lot of press lately
And one of their big
The things that
Hyped them up
Is the privacy issues
Supposedly
They will index
Your email
And then use it
For some purpose
They haven't really
Described yet
Except for maybe
Searching your email
So maybe
MSN is actually
Going through
Hotmail users' mail
And indexing
Any and all links
Included in their mail
For their own purposes
Or perhaps to include
In a service later
To compete with Gmail
Well I'll take you
Even one further
Than that
Again this is
We're going off
Into some
Conspiracy theories here
But I've said
All along
That that's the reason
Why
And that's one of the
Things I hate about
Hotmail
And other webmail
Clients do this too
If you do send
Somebody a link
Inside of
A mail message
In Hotmail
Particularly
Still does this today
And I hate it
When someone clicks on it
It puts that
Damn bar at the top
That says
You are visiting a site
Outside of Hotmail
Yeah
You know why that happens
They've got it
You're still going
Through their proxies
They know where you're surfing
As long as you have
That window open
So sure
Every email
Every link
That you send
To somebody
An email
They certainly can
Not saying they are
But they certainly can
Easily track it
Because you are
Passing through their server
And if you keep surfing
And forget about
That thing up there
Ignore it
Like people tend to do
They're not only
Seeing the link
That you click through
But any subsequent
Links that you go through
At the same time
They have the ability
To do that
Do they have
Are they doing it
I can't confirm
But it's Microsoft
So I assume
That they are
So I kill that window
I cut and paste URLs
I never click through
A link that I get
In a webmail client
I never click through it
I'll cut and paste it
Control N
Open a new browser window
And go straight to it
That way
This is just another
Example of why
My favorite webmail
Service has always
Been Yahoo Mail
Because it's always
Had plenty of space
Been free
Really easy to use
And just always works
Whereas Hotmail
Has always had
Tons of problems
With limiting amounts
Of messages
And you know
Yeah we could go on
About the Hotmail problems
But just to say this
Just to cover it
I see this in my log files
Too I get a lot of hits
From mail yahoo.com
And the reason is
When you click through
A link on Yahoo
Just like MSN does
They may not put a window
In there that says it
But it does resolve
Back to Yahoo
And they do track
And see where you went
They have the same
Technical ability to do it
They just try to hide it
A little bit better
Technically they can do it
Now they don't
Subsequently continue
To follow you
After you've left
But they can certainly
See where you linked from
Off of their mail server
To go to
Sure
You can see where it links
So they have that
Same capability
Just to a little bit
Of a lesser extent
So but just still
It doesn't really give us
An answer to the question
I mean that's a possibility
But if they're not crawling
They're coming right out of it
If they're not crawling
To build their search engine
What are they crawling for?
Gotta be evil
It's gotta be
It really
I don't know what it
You know that's disturbing
I want an answer to that
That's my frequently asked question
They make up these questions
I should send this to them
You think they'd put it
On their FAQ?
I think you should just
Call up Steve Ballmer
Yeah hold on
I got his number right here
I might send it to him
Just to say that I did
Even though they'll
Never answer it
Yeah
Anyway we'll move on
From that
But that's
You know that really is
Kind of
You know other people
That have sites
Take a look at that
See what you think
See if you find
You'll see something
That looks like
Some random numbers
MSN bot
Some random numbers
Dot
MSN dot
Com
Or dot search
Dot MSN dot com
Or something along those lines
That you'll actually find
In your logs
As well as
A client
Or an agent
Of MSN bot
So just seeing the client
Just seeing the agent name
Would be one thing
But to then see it
Resolved back to that
That URL hit
That's the part
That caught my attention
Anyway
So keep an eye out
For that
And if anybody has
Any ideas
By all means
Send us an email
Radio at
BinRev dot com
Now let me jump back
Into some more statistics
Here to wrap it up
I know it's kind of
Dry but interesting to me
Operating systems
We get the usual
Suspects with this
We got 86%
People using windows
I know how much
You love to hear that
We have 9%
Using Linux
So that's good
2.5%
Using Macs
Which is pretty cool
But then it
You know
That's kind of
You know
It's pretty much
The same ratio
I see that frequently
But it got really cool
After this
This month
I see these off and on
But this month
I saw
They're all
Like .00001%
You know
A couple hundred hits
For the whole month
Page hits that is
So only a couple visits
For the whole month
From these
But I saw a few
From FreeBSD
A few from NetBSD
A few from OpenBSD
All the different BSDs
Sun Solaris
Got some hits
From Sun Solaris
Which I know
A lot of people
Don't like them either
And frankly
That might have been me
And I just forgot about it
I could have done that
Myself
From my Sunbox
But I'm not
Remember
OS2
Wow
Yeah
Who
And who
Is still using
OS2
It's cool to see it
I think it's kind of neat
That somebody is
Still playing around
With an old
Something like that
And then the final one
And I think you and I
Might know who this is
We can't say anything
But the final one
Was from WebTV
Yeah
I think we know
Who that one is
Yeah
I think we know
Who that one is too
But that one's
Kind of funny too
When I saw that
I'm like
What in the
Oh okay yeah
But yeah
I thought that was
Kind of funny
I think that's probably
The first time
I've ever seen WebTV
I think it's also
The first time
I've seen OS2
That was pretty cool
Yeah
So if you're one
Of those users
Let me know who you are
Because that's
That's pretty elite man
I think that's pretty cool
Oh
It caught my attention
There were a bunch
Of Lynx user agents too
Right
Yeah
Yes there were actually
Well you noted
That that was
It seemed kind of high
Right
But barring the fact
That a lot of people
You know
Especially the Linux users
Don't really use
Graphical browsers
A lot of the time
Usually when I'm
Writing a script
To say index a page
Or grab a page
Or something
I usually either
Use Wget or Lynx
With Lynx's arguments
To just you know
Grab the source
Of a page
So it could just be
Some automated script
Grabbing it
Because in truth
Not that many people
Use Lynx anymore
There's other
You know
Text mode browsers
Which are a little bit
Better than Lynx
Right yeah
And I do see some
Wgets
And those are
You know
I obviously assume
That's people
Just doing a grab
Of the whole site
Et cetera
Running
But yeah
I never thought
About people
Might be scripting
Lynx to grab
That kind of stuff
It still seems
Like a lot
But as far as
Browsers go
Again same thing
We get a lot of
IE and stuff like that
But what also surprised me
Was not only the
Unusually large number
Of hits from Lynx
But Opera
Opera
Outperformed Firebird
I got more hits
From Opera
Users than Firebird
Users
And that blew my mind
Wow
That is kind of strange
Yeah I mean
It was a pretty good
Amount too
It was a pretty good lead
Three to one
As a matter of fact
I put a note here
Three to one
Opera
And I'm wondering
Is there some distro
That comes with Opera
As the default
I've never seen it
But I haven't used
All the distros
But I mean
All I ever see
Is Conqueror
Mozilla
And Firebird
There's pretty much
To my mind
Like one or two
Reasons to use Opera
One being
Supposedly it's faster
Although that's debatable
I'll debate that with you
It certainly is not
Okay
Two
Is that I think
It may come with
Either Flash
Or Flash and Java
Which would be useful
Especially on Windows platforms
Because Firebird
Does not come with
Either Flash or Java
On Windows or Linux
So a lot of people
May grab Opera
Just to get it running
Quickly and not have
To set any crap up
And then also
Because it's got
That nice little
Fake Bing
IE 5.5
Browser compatibility
Type option on it
So something that
Firebird may be lacking
Well I tell you what
Firebird users
Need to get it in gear
Man I want to see
Firebird up to
Number two
Next month
This month
I don't know
About that Opera stuff
See
Now I used to love
Opera back in the day
Opera 1.0
Was the bomb
That was a cool browser
No frills
Didn't have all the
Plugins
Didn't have all the
Other support
And all the other
Garbage
If you wanted to
Browse
I mean it was the
Closest thing to
Links
You know
And still be
Somewhat graphical
It was like
Netscape 1.0
All over again
That was cool stuff
But they did
And that was
That was their niche
That was what
Made Opera cool
And they got away
From it
Well if you
If you actually
Get on like
A Linux
Or probably
Even Windows
Fox
A browser
Like that
Is one called
Dillo
Really really
Tiny
Small
Extremely fast
Probably the
Fastest browser
Because in truth
It screws up
A lot of pages
Because it's
Like a really
Thin kind of
Browser
Which just
Doesn't have
A whole lot
Of compatibility
And sort of
Sacrifices a lot
Of extra stuff
For the speed
And isn't that
Embedded into
Like some PDAs
And some
Handheld devices
Yeah it's probably
Embedded in a lot
Of things
Because it is
Really really
Small
So if you want
Something like
Really fast
Just to you know
Browse some images
And just basic
Links and crap
Like that
Then Dillo
Is probably
The way to go
Yeah I think
Damn small Linux
And some of those
Distros use that
As the default browser
And I have seen
That in the past
I did not get
Any this month
I don't believe
From Dillo
So
Let's see
Our referrers
Number one referrer
Once again
Freaks and Geeks
Shouts out to the guys
Over Freaks and Geeks
Icon
You know
We got a lot of links
From just other
Miscellaneous forums
Here and there
People linking
To specific threads
In our forums
Or on our site
Where somebody
Brought up a topic
And they said
Hey go here
For information
Well that's cool
People are coming
To us to learn
And to find stuff out
So that's really cool
There's a lot of those
And I can't go into
It's just too many
To talk about
I also saw some hits
From TOTSE
Which is Temple of the
Screaming Electron
Which is a pretty
Popular site
And their links
Were all going to
Hack TV that I saw
So somebody put the
Word out over there
So that's very cool
I think that's
Cloak Dagger
Actually put the word
Out over there
Which is really cool
And got some
Pretty positive feedback
Over there
And I got a lot of
Hits for Lucky 225
So shouts out to him
Lucky
If you're listening
Which you're probably not
Thanks for sending us
The hits
He's actually
Been sending hits
For several months
But they spiked
This month for some reason
They got up to the top
Somehow
So I don't know
If he
Oh he passed around
Flyers around town
Yeah right
No not lucky
Now here's
Here's some weird
Here's some funny stuff
The top search engine
Phrase was the word
Anime
See when we opened up
The forums to the
Search engines
Where they could start
Indexing talk
A lot of people
You know a lot of
Hackers are into anime
And there was the word
In a lot of different
Forum threads
So a lot of people
Searching got sent to us
For that
Probably had no idea
They were coming to
An hacker site
But the search
The top search term
That people clicked through
Was the word anime
Second
Second through like
Fifth and sixth
All
If I told
I didn't total them up
They might have been
More than anime
If I totaled them
But they were all
Some form of
Hacker wallpaper
And anime wallpaper
Oh speaking of which
Shoot
I'm probably going to have
A new
Little hacker wallpaper up
Probably by
Whenever this
Is released
This episode 45
Okay very cool
What it is
Is basically
About a week or two ago
I took my
Sanyo SCP
4900
Sprint PCS phone
And I threw it
Against the wall
About 15 times
Until it was
Pretty shattered
Beyond belief
Okay
And then it
Started ringing
Amazingly enough
This thing still works
After having the
Screen crunched
Ripping the
Cover apart
Kicking out the
Antenna
It was probably
Crying
It is
But guess what
It still works
This thing is a brick
And if I ever
Get another one
Which I don't think
I will
Because they're
150 bucks
Yikes
This is a very
Decent phone
So
Take a picture
Of it on
With it
Cracked screen
And everything
And try to make
That into a nice
Little picture
Maybe you can
Actually fold it
Around
Does it have a
It's a camera phone
No no
It's pretty much
The lowest end
3G phone
You can get
Or I should say
2.5G phone
Uh huh
Yeah that would
Be kind of ironic
If you broke it
So bad
You could twist
The camera phone
Around to take
A picture of itself
That would be
Pretty messed up
Yeah
So yeah
Send it to us
When you get it
And anybody
Who wants to
Make some new ones
Put them up
In the gallery
That's what we
Have the gallery
For
Put them up
In the forums
Or anywhere
For that matter
And get them
Out there
People are looking
For them
So by all means
Put them out there
Keep them coming
And that's
Yeah that's it
As far as the stats go
I know a lot of people
See some people
Actually requested
That this month
Because I didn't
Do it last week
People are used to
Hearing at the beginning
Of the month
To see
And I find it
Horribly interesting
But I'm a statistics nut
I like looking
At that kind of stuff
I like checking
Through my logs
And seeing what's
Going on
And you know
Since I brought
That up
I do parse
Through my logs
Fairly regularly
I'm not
Again I'm not
The huge log dog
I don't look every day
But I look pretty frequently
I keep an eye
I see what's going on
I see what people
Are trying
And I see
The attempts
That people make it
Unauthorized access
I see them
I see where they
Come from
You know
This
Just to make sure
People realize
It's all logged
I can see
Everything
I see every single
Thing that happens
And I see where
It comes from
Frankly
I mark them off
As either
A
Harmless
Or incompetent
Junk
Or just people
Experimenting
Or using things
That I've written
About and told them
And given them
Permission to do
So I don't bother
Tracking it back
I don't bother
Looking it up
Too much
Unless I see
Some kind of
Intent
Or somebody
Trying
To do something
Unethical
Or bad
You know
You can tell
You can see
That kind of stuff
So
Just to let people
Know
I see it
Your attempts
Do not go
Unseen
I don't have
An intrusion
Detection
System
On there
Because I am
The intrusion
Detection
If I could
Speak properly
I am the
Intrusion
Detection
System
I check it
And I see
What's going
On
So just
Just fair
Warning to
People out
There
Yeah
So
Try your
One
And please
Continue to
Try and hack
StankDawg's
Web server
As much as
You like
Because you'll
Be able to
Catch it
All within
The logs
Yeah
Well
Not exactly
All within
The logs
But
Some of the
Stupid stuff
That people
Are trying
I'm catching
Like the
Windows NT
Yeah
You know
I even put
Screenshots of
Some of that
In my articles
Of people
Trying to run
The command
DXE
Stuff like
That on a
Linux box
And yeah
Anyway
Okay
Now
I got a
Couple emails
And then
We're going to
Jump into
Our main
Topic
Email
The first
Email
I mentioned
Earlier
I got another
Cool email
From another
Country
And this
Is it
It came
From the
Person's
Real name
Which
People know
We don't
Read that
On the
Air
But he
Says
Hi
I listened
To the
Latest
Episode
Of
Bin
Rev
Radio
Episode
44
Last week
And heard
People
Criticizing
The car
Tuning
Part
Of
The
Hack
TV
Episode
One
It sounded
Like some
People didn't
Like the
Tuning
Part
And considered
It to be
Out of
The
Hacking
Context
I found
The tuning
To be
Very
Interesting
I would
Like to
See more
About the
Subject
Sometimes
I'm not
Expecting
To see
Car
Stuff
On every
Episode
But I
Think that
Spices
Up
The
Program
And it
Would
Be
Pretty
Refreshing
To see
Something
Not
Directly
Related
To
Computing
Thanks
For the
Great
Show
And quite
Promising
TV
Show
Keep
Up
The
Good
Work
Sincerely
Bin
Rev
Radio
Listener
From
Finland
Man
How
Cool
Is
That
I will
Never
Go
To
I'll
Never
End
Up
Maybe
I'll
Get
Lucky
And
Go
To
Finland
But
The
Odds
Are
I'll
Never
End
Up
In
Finland
So
Even
Though
I
Say
It
On
The
Show
All
The
Time
That
This
Is
The
Internet
Is
A
Borderless
Society
A
Borderless
Country
It's
Still
Amazing
When
You
Get
Emails
From
People
From
All
These
Different
Countries
And
I
Appreciate
It
Thank
You
For
The
Kind
Words
Yeah
And
I
Said
This
Last
Week
About
The
Car
Episode
Some
People
Didn't
Find
It
All
That
Interesting
Five
Extra
Minutes
On
The
War
Driving
Segment
Or
Five
Extra
Minutes
On
Some
Other
Segment
I
Figured
It
Might
Be
Better
To
Mix
Things
Up
A
Little
Bit
It's
Not
Going
To
Be
In
There
Regularly
It's
Not
Going
To
Be
In
There
Consistently
But
I
Figure
It's
Better
To
Mix
Things
Up
There's
Going
To
Some
Stuff
People
Like
And
Some
People
Some
Stuff
People
Don't
Like
So
Thank
You
For
Saying
That
It's
Promising
That's
All
We
Want
We're
Trying
To
Make
It
Grow
We're
Trying
To
Make
It
Better
With
Each
Episode
And
We're
Going
To
Mix
Things
Up
As
Best
We
Can
Yeah
You
Can't
Really
You
Can
Only
Get
So
Far
Just
Going
On
Computer
Hacking
And
Phone
Freaking
Because
It's
Been
Done
To
Death
About
A
Zillion
Times
But
At
The
Same
Time
It
Can
Get
Repetitive
Doing
Some
Of
The
Stuff
Over
And
Over
Again
So
I
Think
Mixing
It
Up
Is
Really
The
Key
Yeah
There's
Also
Been
A
Couple
Of
Other
Little
Hack
TV
Ripoffs
Around
The
Internet
I
Think
One
Of
Them
Was
Broken
Or
Something
Like
That
Yeah
I
Don't
Know
That
Anybody
Is
Necessarily
A
Ripoff
Of
Anybody
else
But
There
Are
Alternative
Hacking
Shows
Available
Will
Be
Politically
Correct
Personally
I
Think
That
Hack
TV
Is
Providing
Much
Better
Service
Much
More
Interesting
Of
A
Show
Than
Some
Of
These
Other
Alternatives
Out
There
And
Wouldn't
You
Say
That
Contributions
From
Other
Hack
TV
Viewers
And
Bin
Rev
Listeners
Would
Probably
Be
Appreciated
And
Put
Into
Hack
TV
Right
Absolutely
And
You
Know
What
That
Is
The
Thing
I
Actually
Have
Been
Contacted
By
A
Few
People
With
Ideas
And
Suggestions
Of
Stuff
They
Like
To
Do
For
Upcoming
Episodes
Of
Hack
TV
Now
The
Thing
Is
I
Hope
They
Come
Through
With
Them
Because
I
Had
Some
People
Suggesting
And
Coming
Up
With
Some
Ideas
For
The
That
Gets
Really
Old
So
Yeah
Submit
Stuff
And
People
Know
The
Contact
Information
And
Obviously
You
Can
Always
Email
Radio
At
Bin
Rev
Dot
Com
Or
Myself
Personally
Stank
Dawg
At
Stank
Dawg
Dot
Com
And
Let
Me
Know
And
We'll
Work
Out
Something
If
You
Have
To
Send
Me
Physical
Tapes
In
The
Mail
You
Can
Upload
The
Footage
To
The
Server
There
Is
Just
That
Not
An
You
Says
Millions
Of
Ways
To
Get
Me
The
Data
To
Get
It
Done
That
Is
Not
The
Problem
It's
Getting
Out
There
And
Actually
Filming
Something
Whatever
You
Want
To
Film
And
You
Would
Like
To
See
Other
People
Probably
Would
Too
And
Keep
It
Moderately
Or
At
Least
Mostly
Legal
Yes
Absolutely
And
I
Think
That
Goes
Without
Saying
I
Think
People
Know
Where
I
Stand
On
That
My
Views
On
You
Know
The
Type
Of
Hacking
What
I
Consider
Hacking
I
Think
People
Know
That
For
The
Most
Part
So
Yeah
Just
Send
In
Your
Stuff
And
We'll
Work
With
It
We'll
See
What
We
Do
Remember
I
Want
To
Mix
It
Up
I'm
Willing
To
Take
Some
Chances
And
Mix
Some
Things
In
There
So
By
All
Means
Submit
And
Not
Just
That
But
Articles
For
The
Magazine
All
That
Kind
Of
Stuff
I
Don't
Mean
To
Get
Too
Much
Off
Track
But
Might
Be
Interesting
To
Note
That
In
About
Less
Than
Less
Than
Two
Months
The
Fifth
Hope
Will
Be
Happening
And
As
A lot
Of
People
Know
And
A lot
Of
People
Don't
Know
Fifth
Hope
Is
The
Fifth
Or
At
The
Years
2005
Hackers
On
Planet
Earth
Conference
Put
On
By
2600
Magazine
Four
The
Five
Misses
Me
Yeah
I
Know
Me
Too
I
Bet
It
You
Know
What
Actually
Let me
Read this
One
Last
Quick
Email
Okay
And
Then
We'll
Talk
About
That
Because
We
Talked
About
That
At
Our
2600
Meeting
So
Let
Let me
Do
This
Email
Real
Quick
And
We'll
Transition
And
We'll
Talk
About
That
Also
Because
And
This
Is
A
Very
Fast
One
This
Is
The
Email
That
I
Say
I
Get
All
The
Time
Got
An
Email
From
This
Is
From
System
Sacrifice
Says
Hey
Man
I'm
Wondering
What
That
Song
Is
In
The
Intro
And
Outro
Of
Hack
TV
Get
Back
To
Me
If
You
Get
A
Chance
To
Dangling
Particible
There
Not
That
I'm
Grammar
Man
Or
Anything
Don't
Go
You
Know
Everybody
Say
It
With
Me
It's
Zerl
Z
E
A
R
L
In
The
Show
Notes
All
You
Gotta
Do
Is
Go
To
Radio
Dot
Ven
Rev
Dot
Com
And
You
Can
Connect
To
It
But
If
You
Listening
You
Just
Want
To
Type
It
In
It's
Z
E
A
R
L
E
Dot
Com
That's
It
That's
It
Next
Week
I'm
Sure
I'll
Get
Another
One
Asking
Again
But
This
Week
It
Hasn't
Changed
Last
Week
It
Hasn't
Changed
From
Just
Let
Me
Get
That
Out
Again
This
Week
It
It's
Dedication
To
The
Hackers
And
Crackers
That's
The
Title
Of
The
Song
And
It's
Zerl
Z
E
A
R
L
E
Dot
Com
Thank
You
For
Your
Letter
Okay
Now
Anyway
You're
Getting
Ready
To
Talk
About
The
As
We
Go
Into
The
Show
And
Tell
Section
Here
About
Obviously
Our
Topic
This
Week
Was
Going
To
Our
2600
So
At
Our
Meeting
We
Talked
About
Our
Plans
For
Hope
Five
Our
Tentative
Plans
So
Why don't
You
Go
Ahead
You
Were
Getting
Ready
To
Say
Something
I
Didn't
Interrupt
You
There
Yeah
What
I
Was
Basically
Saying
Was
As
Hack
TV
Goes
I
Think
It
Would
Be
Really
Decent
If
Say
A
Bin
Rev
Listener
Went
To
The
Fifth
Hope
And
Took
A
Camcorder
Along
Something
Like
That
Or
Maybe
One
DDP
Crew
Or
Somebody
Like
That
Go
And
Just
Take
Some
Highlights
Of
The
Conference
And
Some
Of
The
People
There
Is
Going
To
Be
A
Lot
Of
Famous
Hackers
There
And
I
Think
It
Could
Probably
Make
A
Pretty
Good
Part
Of
The
Next
Hack
TV
Show
And
I
Guess
I
Just
Explain
The
Rest
Of
What
We
Were
To
Talk
About
With
The
Fifth
Hope
Is
That
A
Bunch
Of
People
From
Down
Here
At
The
2600
Meeting
And
I
Think
The
Rest
Of
Stank
Talks
DDP
Crew
And
Different
Bin
Rev
Listeners
Are
All
Going
To
The
Fifth
Hope
To
New
York
The
Pennsylvania
Hotel
In
July
I
Can't
Remember
The
Date
Exactly
9th
Through
11th
I
Believe
Okay
So
It
Like
A
Friday
Through
Sunday
Right
And
Throughout
The
Day
There
Been
Talks
On
Lock
Picking
Social
Engineering
Old
Timers
Panel
Usually
Where
They
Get
All
The
Old
School
Hackers
Together
And
They
Reminisce
About
Oh
I
Used
To
Use
That
Blue
Box
To
Call
Some
Girl
In
Iowa
And
Prank
Caller
But
Yeah
It
Looks
Coming
Up
Pretty
Soon
So
If
Anybody
Wants
To
Come
I
Think
The
Website
Addresses
The
Fifth
Hope
Dot
Org
The
Dash
Fifth
Hope
Yeah
Far
Too
Lazy
To
Type
That
In
I
Just
Go
To
Hope
Dot
Net
I
Think
It
Is
Okay
And
That
Will
Redirect
You
To
Whatever
The
Most
Up
To
Date
Side
Is
So
A
Bunch
Of
People
Down
Here
Were
Already
Starting
To
Or
Post
In
The
Forums
Yeah
Radio
At
Bin
Rev
Dot
Com
Anything
Like
That
And
Yeah
We
Are
Definitely
Going
To
Be
Doing
Some
Filming
Up
There
We
Got
Some
Ideas
In
Mind
And
You
Know
What
Another
Thing
That
I
Just
Thought
Of
When
You
Mentioned
That
Is
Not
Only
People
Filming
Stuff
While
They're
Up
There
As
Well
But
It
Might
Be
A
Time
To
You
Know
What
Start
Filming
Stuff
Now
That
You
Do
Want
To
Submit
And
What
We'll
Do
Is
We're
Going
To
Be
There
Instead
Of
Mailing
It
To
Me
Or
Worrying
About
Uploading
It
Or
Something
Like
That
You
Can
Bring
Them
To
The
Conference
I
Can
Rip
Them
Right
Then
And
There
Throw
Them
On
To
Whatever
Or
On
CD
DVD
Whatever
We
Got
To
Do
And
Get
Them
We
Were
Getting
A
Couple
Of
Rooms
And
We
Didn't
Quite
Have
Enough
People
Yet
To
Share
All
The
Rooms
Right
I
Think
We
Just
Got
The
One
Room
And
I
Think
We're
Set
Now
We
Have
The
One
Room
And
We're
Going
To
Have
People
Everywhere
Actually
For
Most
People
That
Don't
Know
Usually
In
Order
To
Save
Money
Because
It's
About
$125
A
Night
To
Stay
In
The
Pennsylvania
Hotel
Most
People
Will
Get
Together
And
Get
Sleeping
Bags
Or
Whatever
And
A
Bunch
Of
People
Will
Share
One
Room
So
The
Bin
Rent
Forums
Would
Probably
Be
Hotel
Of
Def
Con
Is
Already
Sold
Out
Yeah
I'm
Not
Really
Looking
Forward
To
Going
To
Def
Con
Because
I
Think
Def
Con
Has
Already
Had
It's
Hey
Day
You
Know
It's
Already
Had
It's
Glory
Days
And
Now
It's
Just
People
Are
Going
Just
For
The
Event
And
Not
Really
To
Share
Or
To
Learn
Or
Anything
Like
That
Just
Because
It's
Def
Con
See
I've
Never
Been
So
I've
Got
To
Go
To
Check
It
Out
For
Myself
I
Don't
Know
If
I'm
Going
To
Make
It
This
Year
At
The
Fifth
Hope
I'm
On
The
Volunteer
List
And
I'm
Trying
To
Sort
Out
All
The
People
There's
Dozens
And
Dozens
Of
Volunteers
Right
Now
And
There's
All
Sorts
Of
Different
Sections
Of
The
Thing
I
Was
Looking
Through
Their
Wiki
For
The
Volunteers
And
It's
Interesting
Because
They
Have
Blueprints
And
Plans
Of
The
Different
Floors
Where
They
Put
Access
Points
Where
They
Put
Servers
Different
Things
I
Mean
Not
To
Say
That
I
Would
Ever
Want
To
Do
Anything
Malicious
With
Any
Of
These
Things
But
I
Don't
Know
It
Just
It's
Interesting
Information
Exactly
Interesting
Information
Actually
The
Servers
That
They
Intend
To
Use
Are
Kind
Of
Cool
They
Building
Embedded
Machines
I
Think
Inside
Of
Old
Teleco
Boxes
And
They
Are
Going
To
Plant
Them
Up
On
The
Walls
And
I
Think
They
Are
Actually
Going
To
Be
Alphas
Or
Something
Like
That
No
Actually
The
Alphas
Will
Be
The
Public
Cluster
There
Is
Going
To
Be
A
I
Guess
A
Whole
Bunch
Of
Public
Machines
In
One
Room
For
Anybody
To
Use
It
Going
To
Be
Interesting
I
Hope
From
The
Fifth
Hope
Oh
Yeah
From
The
Public
Yeah
That
Smart
Yeah
I
Want
To
Make
Sure
That
You
Know
I
Want
To
Access
It
Securely
So
What
Better
Place
Yeah
We
Do
Have
There
A
Lot
Of
People
Making
Plans
And
You
Know
What
You
Really
Should
Be
At
This
Point
Finalizing
Some
Plans
Even
Though
It
Two
Months
Away
You
Really
Need
To
Start
Finalizing
Definitely
Need
To
Book
Your
Rooms
And
Start
Booking
Your
Flights
So
That's
Exactly
What
We
Met
And
Talked
About
At
Hope
And
We're
Almost
Done
We've
Got
Most
Of
The
Logistics
Taken
Care
Of
The
Only
Thing
I
Have
Left
To
Do
Is
Book
Some
Plane
Tickets
And
I
Just
Have
To
Wait
On
Some
Personal
Issues
Before
I
Decide
That
Money
Oh
And
There will
Also
Be
I
Believe
A
Second
Sort
Of
Informal
Kind
Of
Meeting
After
The
Fifth
Hope
There's
Actually
A
Couple
Of
Them
But
Yeah
I
Know
Where
You're
Going
Yeah
One
Of
Them
Was
Oh
My
God
Hacks
2K
Or
4K
Or
Something
Like
That
Right
Basically
Just
I
Think
Phone
Losers
Of
America
And
A
Bunch
Of
Other
Groups
Were
Just
Thinking
Of
Getting
Together
After
The
Con
To
Walk
Around
The
City
And
Cause
Havoc
Pretty
Much
And
I
Don't
Know
I
Think
It's
Going
To
Be
Interesting
Because
People
Like
Rainforest
Puppy
And
A
Bunch
Of
Other
People
Will
Probably
Be
There
And
You
At
The
Con
Yeah
Well
I
Assume
They'll
Also
Be
At
The
Con
Yeah
But
You
Know
Pointing
Them
Out
They're
Not
Going
Have
A
Big
Stick
On
The
Forehead
That
Says
I
Am
Rainforest
Puppy
You
Know
So
We'll
Have
To
Carry
Around
A
Book
Of
Mug
Shots
Or
Something
So
We
Can
Identify
Each
Other
A
Big
Placard
That
Says
I
Am
A
Freak
Talk
To
Me
Yeah
Right
Should
I
Be
More
For
The
Ladies
In
Case
There
Was
Like
Declate
Out
There
Hmm
Ladies
It's
Cool
Because
I
Know
A
Lot
Of
People
On
IRC
Who
Are
Affiliated
With
2600
Or
Other
Online
Groups
And
They're
All
Going
To
The
Fifth
Hope
So
I
Get
To
Meet
Them
For
The
First
Time
I
Think
It's
Just
Really
Cool
That
We
Get
This
Kind
Of
Outlet
To
Just
Meet
People
Like
Us
At
These
Cons
And
It's
Just
Really
Helpful
To
The
Community
I
Think
Yeah
And
It's
A
Shame
That
We
Can't
Do
It
More
Often
But
You
Know
This
Financial
Aspect
It's
The
Logistics
It's
Not
Easy
Putting
This
Together
Yeah
Really
I'm
Sure
It's
Not
Do
Not
Belittle
The
Effort
That
It
Takes
To
Do
This
It
Really
Is
Rough
To
Do
All
Right
But
Let's
Jump
Into
Our
Main
Yeah
The
I
Know
He's
A
Big
User
Of
Both
Of
These
Products
And
Give
Us
Some
Both
Between
The
Two
Of
Us
Give
A
Couple
Of
Unbiased
Insider
Views
On
What
We
Like
And
Dislike
About
These
Two
Products
And
The
Two
Products
I'm
Talking
About
Are
Microsoft
Office
And
Open
Office
Dot
Org
And
The
Reason
Is
Because
Actually
Where
Is
I
Have
It
Here
Handy
It
Was
In
E
Week
Magazine
Which
Is
A
Trade
Magazine
That
I
Get
Comes
Every
Week
Obviously
The
Name
E
Week
The
Most
Recent
Issue
Here
April
26
2004
Actually
I think
I got
Another
One
Yesterday
But
This
Is
Almost
The
Most
Recent
Issue
Had
An
Article
In
There
Where
And
It
Was
Pretty
Darn
Good
I
Have
To
Say
Where
They
Discussed
Exactly
That
They
Did
Some
Comparison
Between
Those
Two
Products
And
What
Name
But
They
Got
A
Couple
Companies
Actually
Who
Were
In
A
Situation
Where
They
Were
Trying
To
Make
A
Determination
Of
Whether
Or
Not
They
Should
Re-Up
Their
License
With
Microsoft
For
The
Office
Product
Now
Why
Is
This
An
Opportunity
To
Do
Something
Like
This
Well
Obviously
The
Licensing
For
Something
Like
That
Isn't
Cheap
And
The
Problem
With
Licensing
Especially
With
Microsoft
And
I
Have
Talked
About
This
On
The
Show
Before
But
I'm
Going
To
Rehatch
This
One
A
Little
Bit
Because
It
Does
Lead
Into
This
Topic
I've
Talked
About
In
The
Past
In
Relation
To
Their
Operating
Systems
And
How
Much
It
Kind
Of
Stinks
That
When
You
Upgrade
To
A
New
Site
License
Of
Windows
XP
For
Example
One
Of
The
Things
That
You
Sign
Off
On
Is
Abandoning
To
Windows
XP
Excuse
Me
In
This
Case
It's
Exactly
The
Same
And
This
Is
One
Of
The
Reasons
That
Right
Now
The
Door
Is
Open
In
This
Particular
Case
For
Open
Office
Or
But
This
Relates
To
Open
Source
Products
In
General
The
Door
Is
Open
Right
Now
The
Opportunity
Is
There
Businesses
Have
Their
Eyes
And
Ears
Open
For
Alternatives
Right
Now
And
That's
Why
The
Timing
And
Talking
About
This
Right
Now
Is
So
Important
When
You
Want
To
Re-Up
Your
License
Or
Get
A
New
License
To
Office
XP
Or
Whatever
Your
Microsoft
Product
Is
You
Are
Agreeing
And
Sunsetting
The
Old
Versions
Of
Your
Products
And
The
Companies
In
This
Example
And
There
Are
Many
More
Out
There
Are
Perfectly
Happy
And
Satisfied
With
Office
97
There
Have
Not
Been
Too
Many
Changes
Since
Office
97
On
The
Low
End
There
Been
Some
High
Advanced
Things
That
Were
Added
To
It
And
We're
Going
To
Talk
About
Those
In
A
Little
Bit
But
In
General
Office
97
And
Maybe
Even
Earlier
Than
That
Is
Perfectly
Fine
For
The
Majority
Of
Businesses
The
Majority
Of
What
They
Do
The
Functionality
Still
Exists
In
There
However
They
Can't
Get
Support
From
It
They
Can't
Continue
Their
Licenses
From
It
Because
Microsoft
Does
Not
Allow
That
Microsoft
Forces
Them
And
That's
Poor
Choice
Of
Words
They
Don't
Force
Them
They
Just
No
Longer
Offer
The
Older
Licenses
And
What
Happens
Is
They
Put
These
Companies
In
A
Position
Where
They
Either
Have
To
Upgrade
To
Office
2003
Or
Find
An
Alternative
And
That's
What
I
Say
When
The
Door
Is
Open
Are
There
Alternatives
Out
There
Office
Suite
And
The
Answer
Is
Clearly
Yes
Absolutely
The
Office
Suites
That
Become
Sort
Of
A
Problem
Sometimes
Though
Because
Often
Times
You're
Trying
To
Cram
A
Huge
Amount
Of
Code
And
Like
A
Lot
Of
Different
Projects
Which
Are
Really
Complicated
And
Hard
To
Put
Together
And
You're
Trying
To
Put
It
Together
Into
One
Single
Package
That
Just
Works
And
This
Is
Obviously
It's
Not
An
Easy
Thing
Off
Top
Of
My
Head
There's
Star
Office
I
Think
Corel
Made
Word
Perfect
Or
Some
Other
Suite
Of
Applications
And
They're
Actually
Getting
Ready
To
Come
Out
With
A
New
Version
As
Well
I
Think
Corel
Actually
Sold
It
Off
To
Another
Company
And
They're
Coming
Out
With
A
New
Version
I
Can't
Think
Of
That
Company
Off
Hand
But
Yes
Go
Ahead
Obviously
Microsoft
Office
Which
You've
Already
Mentioned
In
Detail
OpenOffice
Dot
Org
Which
Is
Actually
Based
Off
Of
Star
Office
Yes
The
Free
Version
Of
Star
Office
With
One
Or
Two
Minor
Modifications
It
Took
Out
Of
Star
Office
But
Nothing
Huge
You know
Pretty
Much
Just
Using
Star
Office
Is
Just
Like
Using
Open
Office
Then
For
The
Open
Source
Alternatives
Is
Also
K-Mail
Or
Not
K-Mail
Excuse
Me
K-Office
Right
The
K-De
Office
Suite
Yeah
And
There
Are
Several
Other
Alternatives
But
Open
Office
I
Think
Is
The
Biggest
Threat
And
That's
The
One
That
We
Probably
Should
Focus
On
With
These
Comparisons
Because
I
Use
It
I
Use
Open
Office
Dot
At
Home
I
Use
Microsoft
Office
At
Work
So
I
So
Do
You
As
Well
And
I
Think
And
When
I
Say
The
Door
Is
Open
I
Want
To
Make
Sure
People
Understand
That
We're
About
To
We
Are
Comparing
And
Talking
About
The
Office
Products
But
It
Certainly
Is
Not
Limited
There
Earlier
In
The
Statistics
We
Talked
About
All
The
Alternative
Browsers
That
People
Can
Use
There's
Alternative
Mail
Clients
There's
Just
There's
Alternative
Software
There's
Open
Source
Software
For
Just
About
Everything
I
Use
Microsoft
Outlook
At
Work
Shut
Up
Don't
Say
A
Word
But
I
Use
Thunderbird
At
Home
It's
Fully
Functional
Does
Just
About
Everything
That
I
Want
Well
No
It
Does
Everything
That
I
Want
At
Home
So
I
Try
Both
And
Make
Comparisons
And
There's
Good
And
Bad
Things
About
Them
And
We're
Going
To
Talk
About
Some
Of
Those
Now
But
Keep
In
Perspective
That
Even
Though
We're
Talking
About
This
Is
Just
The
Door
Over
And
If
You
Can
Get
People
Using
Your
Office
Suites
And
Open
Office
Dot
Org
Is
A
Hell
Of
A
Product
Let's
Be
Honest
It's
Good
Stuff
It
Is
It
Really
Not
I'm
Not
Being
A
Total
Open
Source
Typical
Hacker
Blind
Ya
No
It's
Good
Stuff
Certainly
Compete
With
The
Microsoft
Alternative
And
It's
Good
That
People
Are
Seeing
That
So
What
They
Did
Is
They
Got
When
I
Say
They
What
They
Did
Is
E-Week
In
This
Article
They
Got
Several
Different
Levels
Of
Users
They
Got
From
Beginner
Basic
Users
Secretaries
That
Both
Products
They
Gave
Them
Open
Office
Dot
Org
And
They
Turned
Them
Loose
To
Try
To
Do
Similar
Things
On
Open
Office
Dot
Org
That
You
Do
On
Microsoft
Office
Every
Day
And
See
If
That
Could
Work
So
Let's
Take
A
Look
At
Some
Of
The
Individual
Products
For
Lack
Of
A
Better
Word
The
Individual
Applications
Within
Each
One
Of
These
Suites
Now
The
Biggest
One
The
One
That
Is
Used
More
Than
Anything
Is
Microsoft
Word
Everybody
Loves
Microsoft
Word
Frankly
I
Don't
Have
A
Problem
With
I
Use
Microsoft
Word
Quite
A
Bit
There
Are
Some
Annoyances
About
It
But
You
Know
I
Think
We
Should
Say
That
Microsoft
Word
Is
Probably
The
Most
Popular
But
Not
Necessarily
The
Most
Loved
And
Yeah
No
Way
Can
Those
Be
Confused
If
You
Ever
Been
On
A
College
Or
High
School
Campus
On
A
You
Know
The
Land
There
Writing
Up
A
File
For
To
Send
In
To
Your
Teacher
And
You
Save
It
To
The
Network
File
System
And
Then
You
Go
Open
Up
On
Another
Computer
And
Suddenly
The
Program
Just
Closes
For
Some
Reason
And
Doesn't
Bother
To
Save
Your
Work
For
The
Last
18
Hours
Or
Anything
Right
At
First
You
Think
Oh
It's
Just
Another
Microsoft
Problem
You
Know
Another
Bug
But
No
It's
Actually
A
Macrovirus
Or
Some
Sort
Of
Worm
Or
Some
Other
Little
Thing
That
Infected
Itself
Into
The
Word
File
And
Unfortunately
It's
One
Of
The
Biggest
Problems
That
I
Had
When
I
Was
Using
Word
Other
Than
That
Though
It
Is
A
Very
Decent
Word
Text
Editor
And
What
Not
Right
Now
Openoffice.org
Has
An
Equivalent
Yes
It
Has
I
Think
Openoffice.org
Writer
Right
Which
Is
Pretty
Much
The
Same
Thing
With
Some
Obvious
Little
Differences
As
Part
Of
The
GUI
Is
Concern
You
Know
The
Buttons
Are
Organized
A
Little
Differently
Yeah
But
Some
Of
The
Basic
Things
They're
Both
Going
To
Have
Bold
Buttons
On
There
They
Both
Have
Italics
They
Both
Have
Left
Justification
Right
Justification
Stuff
That
The
Majority
I
Would
Estimate
99%
Of
The
People
Would
Need
Sure
They're
Common
Across
Pretty
Much
All
Word
Process
Exactly
And
It's
Very
Complete
It's
Got
Dozens
And
Dozens
Of
Plugins
So
That
You
Can
Check
Your
Spelling
Of
Course
And
A
Bunch
Of
Languages
You
Can
Run
Everything
You've
Typed
Up
Automatically
Through
Babelfish
Or
Another
Translator
To
Automatically
Translate
Your
Notes
Here
But
That
Is
Something
They
Mentioned
In
This
Article
One
Of
The
Companies
I'm
Glad
You
Brought
That
Up
Because
I
Forgot
About
That
It's
A
Great
Feature
One
Of
These
Companies
Had
Offices
International
Offices
Overseas
And
They
That
Was
One
Of
The
Things
That
They
Said
That
They
Really
Liked
About
It
Was
The
Ability
To
Translate
On
The
Fly
The
Ability
To
Have
Those
Offices
Is
That
You
Have
Hackers
Around
The
World
That
Can
Just
Change
The
Source
Add
A
Feature
And
Send
It
Back
To
Them
And
Then
It
Will
Get
Put
Into
The
Next
Release
And
Of
Course
It
All
Develop
Proprietarily
So
Everything
Is
Locked
Up
If
There
Is
Ever
A
Problem
You
Can't
Really
Fix
It
If
There
Is
Ever
A
Feature
You
Want
To
Add
You
Can't
Really
Add
It
One
Of
The
Big
Problems
As
Far
As
The
Languages
Is
Also
Concern
With
Microsoft
Products
In
General
Has
Been
Just
Being
Able
To
Use
It
In
Your
Native
Language
In
A
Different
Part
Of
The
Microsoft
Had
And
Now
Because
Of
Antitrust
And
A
Bunch
Of
Other
Suits
They
Finally
Getting
Windows
Ready
To
Work
With
Different
Native
Languages
So
Open
Office
Has
An
Advantage
In
That
They
Can
Get
It
To
Work
For
Locality
Of
Some
Bath
Acuras
Part
Of
The
World
That
The
Majority
Of
Developers
Don't
Work
For
So
They
Can
Get
Little
Changes
Like
That
Done
Quicker
And
Easier
And
Peer
Oriented
Development
Model
Basically
Having
A lot
Of
Other
People
See
The
Code
They
Can
See
Problems
And
They
Can
Fix
Them
And
Clean
Them
Up
So
That
They're
Much
More
Stable
And
Much
More
Reliable
Right
And
Then
Send
Them
Back
To
The
Original
Person
See
It
Just
Enhances
Collaboration
Right
Again
Earlier
I
Said
It
But
It
Is
A
Borderless
Society
It
Is
A
Borderless
Country
The
Internet
Earlier
From
Finland
Who
Can
In
Turn
Send
It
Off
To
You
Know
Australia
Well
Okay
They
Not
A
Big
Good
Example
There
But
They
Send
It
Off
To
Germany
For
Example
Or
Whoever
And
Come
Back
And
You
Can
All
Work
Together
By
Having
That
Interoperability
And
That's
One
Of
The
Key
Things
Another
Interesting
Or
One
Or
Two
More
Interesting
Points
About
The
Differences
Between
Microsoft
Office
Suite
And
OpenOffice.org
Would
Be
Obviously
The
Price
OpenOffice.org
Is
License
Free
You
Don't
Have
To
Pay
$300
A
Seat
To
Install
The
Office
Suite
Onto
Your
Network
You
Are
Not
Going
To
Have
To
Face
These
Weird
Licensing
Issues
That
Microsoft
Has
For
You
We
We'll
Talk
About
Some
Of
Those
We'll
Sum
It
Up
At
The
End
Too
But
Back
To
Word
And
Writer
Specifically
Some
Of
Most
Part
The
Standard
Stuff
Is
There
And
I
Personally
Would
Estimate
That
90
Plus
Percent
Of
People
Would
Have
Little
To
No
Difficulty
Transitioning
From
Microsoft
Word
To
OpenOffice.org
Writer
And
I
Firmly
Believe
That
And
People
Listening
Try
It
That's
The
Only
Thing
I
Can
Say
I
Know
A
Lot
Of
People
Are
Just
Skeptical
Or
Just
Comfortable
Using
Their
Old
Product
Or
They're
Skeptical
Of
The
New
One
Of
Whether
Or
Not
It's
Going
To
Be
Able
To
Do
The
Same
Thing
You
Know
Why
Change
Well
The
Reason
To
Change
Is
A
Like
You
Mentioned
Price
The
Licensing
Aspect
Of
It
And
You
Know
It
Absolutely
Can
Do
Everything
The
Other
Thing
Is
You
Gotta
Think
At
Home
You
Know
A
Lot
Of
People
Do
You
Have
Legal
Copies
Of
Office
At
Home
And
Did
You
Pay
All
That
Money
Because
That's
Expensive
To
Have
That
And
Have
It
At
Home
Like
You
Have
At
Work
You
Get
Used
To
Using
Something
Like
This
At
Home
And
That's
Why
Myself
I
Think
Is
A
Good
Example
People
Can
Use
At
Home
Try
These
Alternative
Things
Out
Try
These
Open
Source
Things
Out
And
See
How
If
You
Like
Them
And
Then
Start
Transitioning
Them
Into
The
Workplace
Where
You
Can
Take
Stuff
Back
And
For
Easily
Because
That
Is
One
Of
The
Knocks
That
They
Had
Consistently
And
Word
And
Writer
Was
One
Of
The
Knocks
They
Mentioned
But
They
Mentioned
This
Consistently
In
All
Of
Their
Stuff
And
That
Is
The
Lack
Of
Interoperability
Between
The
Two
Products
They
Had
Problems
Importing
And
Exporting
Documents
Into
Open
Office
That
Or
Writer
Certainly
Yeah
Well
No
Joke
That's
Because
Microsoft's
Standards
Are
Not
Public
Well
They're
Not
Really
Standards
Well
They're
Forced
Standards
I
Mean
It's
A
Complete
Joke
To
Be
Able
To
Say
Oh
This
Product
Didn't
Open
This
Other
Products
File
You
Know
Exactly
The
Same
Way
Because
It
Wasn't
Made
For
That
Product
You're
Not
Going
To
Open
Up
I
Don't
Know
Some
Sort
Of
I
Know
Some
Sort
Of
Text
File
With
Some
Other
Well
It
Was
Actually
Microsoft
I
Remember
When
Back
In
The
Day
Word
Perfect
5.0
Was
The
Bomb
Now
That
Was
It
Boy
And
A
Doc
File
Meant
Word
Perfect
5.1
That
Was
A
Doc
File
If
You
Saw
Doc
You
Knew
It
Was
Word
Perfect
5.1
Then
Microsoft
Came
Along
And
Bitch
Slapped
Word
Perfect
And
Said
Oh
No
We'll
Take
The
DOC
Extension
Thank
You
Very
Much
And
They
Took
It
Over
They
Forcibly
Made
Microsoft
DOC
A
Standard
By
Just
Sheer
Numbers
They
Overtook
It
So
That
I
Remember
That
Happening
I
Distinctly
Remember
So
They
Forcibly
Became
A
Standard
Through
The
Sheer
Force
Of
Numbers
And
How
Many
People
Using
It
They
Did
They
Ended
Up
Changing
To
WPD
Whoops
WPD
As
Their
Standard
And
I
Think
To
This
Day
They
Still
Use
It
But
Again
They
Have
Really
Disappeared
Lately
I
Don't
Know
What's
Going
To
Happen
With
This
Latest
Push
But
Frankly
I
Think
They're
Third
In
Line
Now
Behind
Open
Office
Dot
Org
I
Really
Do
Oh
Certainly
The
Other
Day
I
Was
A
Couple
Month
Ago
Actually
I
Did
A
Consulting
Job
For
Somebody
And
I
Sent
Open
Office
With
Word
With
Whatever
And
I
Had
To
Get
A
Thousand
Different
Converters
And
Tools
To
Be
Able
To
Actually
Open
It
And
Open
Office
Finally
I
Was
Able
To
But
It
Was
Quite
Obvious
That
Nothing
Could
Open
That
Format
Except
For
Word
Perfect
Anymore
And
It
Was
Just
Because
Nobody
Uses
Word
Perfect
It
Appears
Me
Right
And
Yeah
That
Is
I
Never
Had
I
Never
Been
Able
To
Import
Word
Perfect
Files
To
Microsoft
Office
Or
Microsoft
Word
Very
Well
At
All
The
Converters
Have
Never
Worked
Well
Especially
For
Highly
Formatted
Documents
And
That
Was
Another
One
Of
The
Complaints
From
People
Using
Open
Office
Dot
Writer
Importing
The
More
Heavily
Formatted
It
Was
The
Harder
The
Import
Was
Or
The
Other
Really
Big
Thing
That
Impressed
Them
And
This
Is
A
Great
Feature
Was
Native
Support
For
PDF
Format
Writer
Can
Write
Directly
To
PDF
In
A
Business
Environment
That
Is
A
Huge
Plus
Because
PDF
Takes
Away
That
Concern
Of
Interoperability
That
Concern
Of
Whether
Or
Not
It
Is
Going
To
Be
Read
By
Another
Application
Or
Another
Program
It
Gives
You
Another
Standard
That
Not
Microsoft
But
It
Gives
You
Another
Standard
And
We
Could
Debate
Whether
Or
Not
We
Should
Adopt
Another
Standard
Etc
That
Is
A
Debate
For
Another
Time
But
PDF
Is
A
Very
Popular
Option
That
Makes
It
A
Lot
More
Portable
And
Gives
You
Support
To
A
Lot
More
People
Regardless
Of
Their
Operating
System
And
Environments
It
Is
Kind
Of
Funny
Too
Because
My
Dad
Paid
Something
A
Couple
Hundred
Dollars
Just
To
Buy
Adobe
Acrobat
You
Know
The
Professional
Version
That
Can
Actually
Create
PDFs
Out
Of
Whatever
Office
Document
You
Have
Right
Whereas
I
Just
Pulled
Up
Open
Office
On
His
Computer
And
I
Was
Like
Why
Didn't
You
Just
Use
The
Export
To
PDF
Right
He
Just
Looked
At
Me
With
This
Look
On
His
Face
Like
What
The
Yeah
200
Bucks
Thank
You
Very
Much
Yeah
Pay
Now
There
Were
Two
Other
There
Two
Other
Things
In
Here
That
They
Compared
Also
There
Is
Definitely
More
Parts
To
Both
Suites
Than
This
But
These
The
Main
Ones
The
Second
One
Of
Course
Is
The
Spreadsheet
Software
Now
Microsoft
This
Is
What
They
Call
Their
Killer
App
Microsoft
Excel
This
Is
The
Product
Believe
Even
Though
Word
May
Be
More
Wides
Spread
More
In
Use
Excel
Is
The
Killer
App
Can
Do
Some
Really
Amazing
Stuff
With
Microsoft
Excel
I
Don't
Have
Need
For
It
In
My
Business
And
What
I
Do
I'm
A
Programmer
I
Don't
Really
Need
A
Whole
Lot
Of
Excel
And
Statistical
Functions
And
Analyzing
Data
And
Stuff
Some
Of
That
Stuff
The
People
That
Do
Swear
By
Excel
And
I've
Seen
It
It's
Got
A
Lot
Of
Stuff
In
There
And
Open
Office
Dot
Org
Equivalent
Of
That
Is
Called
Calc
So
There
Was
A
Little
Bit
Of
An
Edge
To
Microsoft
Excel
When
You
Compare
These
One
On
One
Now
Again
All
The
Stuff
We
Mentioned
Earlier
Like
Languages
PDF
Exports
And
Stuff
Like
That
Is
Universal
Throughout
All
Their
Apps
But
Excel
Had
An
Edge
But
Only
On
Advanced
Users
Still
Typical
Everyday
Users
Who
Were
Just
Writing
Up
But
Advanced
Users
Had
A
Lot
Of
Problems
Trying
To
Get
Calc
To
Do
Some
Of
The
Same
Stuff
Again
It
Was
Mentioned
About
Importing
And
Exporting
That
Is
A
Universal
Problem
And
That
Just
You
Know
That
Just
Part
Of
It
Goes
With
The
Territory
But
One
Of
The
Things
They
Specifically
Mentioned
Were
Pivot
Tables
And
Microsoft
Excel
They
Do
Not
Import
Very
Well
Into
Calc
Because
There
Is
An
Option
There
Is
Something
Kind
Of
Sort
Of
Like
Pivot
Tables
But
Not
Exactly
And
They
Definitely
Weren't
To
The
Depth
That
Microsoft
Excel
Had
This
Is
One
Of
The
Things
That
Concerned
Me
A
Little
Bit
About
Open
Office
To
Be
Fair
To
The
Microsoft
Office
People
Out
There
Open
Office
Is
Some
What
Slower
In
Getting
Support
For
Different
Formats
And
Changes
In
Formats
Than
Some
Other
Projects
Out
There
And
Generally
Speaking
If
You're
Going
To
Use
Open
Office
I
Recommend
That
You
Use
The
Native
Open
Office
Formats
Or
Star
Office
Formats
Instead
Of
Saving
It
To
Microsoft
Word
Or
Something
Like
That
Because
That
Is
Going
To
Even
More
Problem
You
Want
To
Get
Away
From
The
Other
Closed
Proprietary
Type
Formats
And
You
Want
To
Go
More
Towards
The
Open
Office
Formats
Because
Part
Of
Another
Really
Good
Reason
I
Think
That
Open
Office
Is
Really
A
Powerful
Solution
To
Microsoft
Office
Is
Not
Just
Because
Of
Cost
Not
Just
Because
It
Can
Do
As
Good
A
Job
If
Not
Better
As
Microsoft
Office
But
Because
Combined
Open
Source
With
Free
Of
Cost
And
You
Got
A
Truly
Portable
Format
Not
Only
Can
It
Be
Read
By
All
The
Open
Office
Programs
And
Can
Save
The
File
To
Different
Formats
Like
Microsoft
Word
But
You
Can
Also
Install
Open
Office
On
A
Mac
On
A
Linux
PC
Or
On
Windows
So
If
You
Save
An
Open
Office
File
Chances
Are
Pretty
Much
Anybody
On
Any
Platform
Well
Of
The
Major
Platforms
At
Least
That
Open
Office
Is
Ported
To
Will
Be
Able
To
Open
That
And
You
Can't
Just
Reliably
Install
Microsoft
Office
Over
Office
And
It
Will
Work
Okay
But
It
Is
Not
Going
To
Be
As
Good
As
It
Was
In
Windows
And
I
Haven't
Really
Used
Office
On
A
Mac
Before
But
I
Assume
That
It
May
Be
Available
To
A
Mac
And
If
So
I
Still
Assume
That
It
Not
Going
To
As
Good
As
It
Running
On
Some
New
Machine
And
Just
Send
It
To
Everybody
And
I
Think
That
Is
Just
A
Really
Powerful
Way
To
Use
Office
Suite
Because
I
Have
Friends
Who
Have
iPods
Or
Not
iPods
I
Books
And
Mac
And
Stuff
Like
That
And
I
Can
Just
Save
An
Open
Office
File
And
Send
It
Over
To
Them
And
They
Open
It
Up
And
It
Looks
Exactly
Like
It
Did
On
My
Computer
Where
XML
Is
Becoming
That
Output
Standard
XML
Is
Giving
That
Same
Functionality
And
If
I
Honestly
Have
Not
Tried
To
See
If
I
Can
Export
To
XML
From
Open
Office
Dot
Or
I
Know
That
Microsoft
And
Their
Products
Are
Making
A
Push
To
Send
Stuff
To
XML
You
Then
Get
Into
Some
Other
XML
Standards
Microsoft
Is
Going
To
Have
Their
Extra
Tags
That
You
May
Be
Different
But
XML
Is
Actually
XML
If
That
Is
The
Case
Then
That
Is
The
Way
To
Go
That
Is
The
Perfect
Solution
Right
Now
For
Interoperability
Between
Systems
And
Operating
Systems
Environments
Etc
Also
I
Would
Like
To
Just
Note
That
Because
The
Office
Suites
Are
Not
Always
Perfect
Because
There
Is
So
Many
Parts
They
Have
To
Put
Together
That
They
Don't
Always
Have
The
Perfect
Interoperability
With
Other
Products
Like
Excel
So
You
May
Have
Your
Open
Office
Suite
And
You
May
Have
Also
An
External
Just
One
Other
Open
Source
App
Like
Genumeric
Which
Is
An
Excel
Like
Program
Which
Actually
Supports
If
Memory
Serves
Just
About
Every
Single
Type
Of
Operation
That
Excel
Does
Now
And
I
Was
Able
To
Open
Up
An
Excel
File
From
My
Father's
Computer
And
It
Looked
Exactly
The
Same
And
I
Was
Able
To
Do
All
The
Different
Functions
And
Transformations
And
All
That
Other
Stuff
So
Even
If
Open
Office
Doesn't
Have
Every
Single
Solitary
Thing
That
You
Need
To
Work
Exactly
As
You
Need
It
To
You
Can
Still
Combine
It
With
Another
Tool
And
You
Not
Going
To
Really
Lose
Any
Functionality
Or
Lose
Any
Cost
Or
Anything
Like
That
Because
They
Are
Both
Free
They
Both
Open
Source
And
You
Still
Got
The
Same
Advantages
For
Both
Right
And
But
Again
That's
Really
Something
That
That's
Going
To
Take
Somebody
Advanced
To
Set
That
Up
And
I
Really
Want
People
Who
Are
Running
A
Normal
Everyday
Office
To
Understand
That
Yes
That
Option
Is
Available
Which
Is
Great
If
They
Are
Advanced
Users
If
They
Want
To
Push
That
And
Do
Stuff
Like
That
But
I
Also
Want
People
Listening
To
Understand
That
They
Can
Simply
Download
And
Install
This
And
It
Can
Be
That
Simple
It
Can
Be
As
Simple
As
Downloading
OpenOffice.org
Or
Ordering
A CD
Or
Something
Like
That
And
Installing
It
And
Fresh
Out
Of
The
Box
It's
Much
More
Friendly
Than
You
Would
Believe
You
Do
Not
Have
To
Do
All
This
Stuff
It
Can
Help
And
It's
A
Great
Option
To
Be
To
Tweak
In
Here
And
We
Got
We're
Running
Short
In
Time
Very
Short
The
Other
Two
That
They
Compared
Were
Powerpoint
Which
Is
A
Presentation
Software
From
Microsoft
Office
And
The
Equivalent
And
OpenOffice.org
Is
Called
Impress
Which
I
Know
You
Used
Before
And
I
Seen
Presentations
On
That
On
A
Personal
Note
I
Didn't
Care
For
Impress
Maybe
It
Is
Because
I
Used
Powerpoint
In
The
Past
Quite
A
Used
To
On
A
Personal
Note
But
At
First
I
Didn't
It
Seemed
Like
A
Lot
It
Was
Kind
Of
The
Odd
Man
Out
It
Wasn't
Quite
As
Easy
To
Jump
Into
As
Calc
Or
Writer
Was
For
Me
Personally
However
People
In
This
Review
Who
In
This
Article
Again
From
E-Week
They
Actually
Were
Split
50-50
Some
Of
Them
Said
The
Same
Thing
I
Just
Did
That
They
Didn't
Like
It
As
Much
As
That
But
Other
People
Said
That
Impress
Was
Actually
Better
Designed
And
Made
More
Sense
In
The
Way
It
Worked
In
The
Way
You
Use
It
So
Not
Only
Was
It
Split
Kind
Of
Like
Everybody
Was
Lukewarm
There
Were
People
On
One
Side
And
People
On
The
Other
People
Actually
Supported
Impress
The
Only
Knock
Against
This
Is
Similar
To
What
We
Said
Earlier
It
Not
A
Whole
Lot
It
Is
Not
Something
You
Rewrite
If
You
Are
Going
To
Change
It
Or
Take
It
Somewhere
Else
You
Might
Make
A
Few
Modifications
To
It
But
Once
You
Made
It
You
Really
Don't
Have
To
Rewrite
It
Over
Again
They
Had
A
Lot
Of
Problems
When
They
Were
Opening
Or
Importing
That
Into
Impress
It
Would
Import
But
Any
Kind
Of
Embedded
Object
Like
Word
Documents
Presentations
Then
It
Might
Be
A
Little
Tougher
To
Transition
Over
To
Impress
Or
To
Open
Office
Dot
Org
Suite
Which
Has
Impress
In
It
For
Presentations
You
Might
Have
A
Little
Work
If
You
Have
Complex
Presentations
Again
This
Is
Advanced
Stuff
On
The
Basic
And
All
That
Basic
Functionality
Is
Very
Good
So
To
Summarize
We
Already
Said
A
Lot
Of
These
Things
We
Were
Going
To
Do
That
Was
Almost
A
Freudian
Slip
Medium
Level
Users
I
Almost
Said
Losers
Seem
To
Have
No
Problem
Transitioning
From
Microsoft
Office
To
Open
Office
Dot
Org
And
That
Is
The
Real
Message
I
Want
To
Send
Out
Advanced
Users
Had
A
Few
Functionality
Issues
But
As
Saipete
Mentioned
There
Are
Things
You
Can
Do
About
That
Because
Of
The
Open
Source
Aspect
And
The
Open
Source
Nature
Of
Backwards
Compatibility
There
Is
An
Issue
With
Microsoft
Where
Things
That
Are
Done
In
Office
2003
Aren't
Backwards
Compatible
With
People
Still
Using
97
Or
2000
Or
Whatever
I
Think
Actually
Did
Try
To
Standardize
It
After
2000
But
You
Can't
Go
Back
Beyond
That
So
That
Becomes
A
Problem
So
Anyway
If
You're
A
Manager
And
This
Is
Your
Decision
To
Make
To
Me
I
Think
There's
Nothing
Wrong
With
Installing
This
And
Trying
It
I
Think
At
This
Level
The
Money
That
It's
Going
To
Save
You
And
Everybody
Knows
The
Almighty
Dollar
Is
What
Makes
A
Lot
Of
Decisions
The
Money
That
You're
Going
To
Save
From
Installing
This
Financially
And
Again
The
Open
Source
Aspect
The
Free
As
In
Freedom
Aspect
Of
This
Gives
You
Full
Control
To
Change
To
Modify
To
Update
This
Kind
Of
Stuff
So
I
Just
Like
To
Stress
As
Well
That
Before
Anyone
Actually
Goes
About
Switching
An
Office
Suite
From
What
They
Currently
Have
They
Should
Think
About
Keeping
What
They
Have
And
Testing
Something
Else
On
The
Side
Specifically
On
The
Windows
Side
Because
The
One
Mistake
You
Don't
Want
To
Make
Is
Actually
Switching
To
2003
And
Getting
Into
That
Licensing
Issue
And
Not
Being
Able
To
Back
To
97
Or
2000
Because
I
Think
Those
Are
Actually
Pretty
Much
The
Best
Office
Suite
That
Microsoft
Has
Come
Out
With
That
XP
And
2003
Were
Just
I
Didn't
Like
Them
Very
Much
But
That
97
And
2000
Were
Actually
Somewhat
Decent
Right
Yeah
And
A lot
Of
People
That's
Why
They
Don't
Want
To
Switch
Okay
So
There
You
Go
There's
A
Little
Discussion
Some
Review
Some
You
Know
Some
Open
Minded
Thought
About
These
Two
Potential
Office
Suites
Now
Again
Keep
This
In
Mind
For
Other
Things
Try
Firefox
Try
Mozilla
Try
Other
Alternative
Programs
Like
Thunderbird
For
Example
Because
Microsoft
Outlook
Is
Part
Of
The
Office
Suite
You
Know
I
Don't
Know
What
Other
Like
Eudora
I
Think
Some
People
License
That
Site
License
You
Have
Things
Like
Thunderbird
And
You
Have
These
Other
Options
What
Is
Evolution
Yeah
Evolution
Is
An
Outlook
Like
Client
Right
Another
Male
Client
That
Again
Can
Solve
The
Same
Things
And
Has
A
Lot
Of
The
Same
Functionality
Now
Is
The
Time
You
Can
Save
A
Lot
Of
Money
By
Changing
To
Stuff
Like
This
And
Have
A
Lot
More
Control
You
Be
Supporting
Better
Standards
Instead
Of
Forced
Microsoft
Standards
And
You
Have
A
Lot
More
Control
You
Won't
Be
I
Guess
That
Was
A
Really
Good
Show
And
I
Hope
People
Can
Listen
To
That
And
Present
That
To
People
And
Convince
Them
There
Are
Alternatives
And
It's
Not
Just
A
Pipe
Dream
Anymore
It's
Not
Just
A
Bunch
A
Hacker
Punks
Or
Hacker
Kids
Writing
Their
Own
Software
And
It's
Not
Reliable
And
Is
Dependable
And
Interoperability
And
Blah
That
Word
I've
Eyes
And
Hopefully
We
Did
That
Hopefully
That's
Something
We
Did
And
Hopefully
Other
People
Can
Make
It
Do
It
So
Let's
Wrap
The
Show
Up
I'll
Go ahead
And
Kick
It
To
You
If
You've
Got
Any
Shouts
And
I
Have
To
Apologize
I'm
Stumbling
Over
Some
Words
This
Episode
Worse
Than
Usual
I
Usually
Butcher
A few
Words
But
Had
A
Dentist
Appointment
Today
So
I'm
Even
Worse
Than
Usual
So
Just
To
Throw
That
Out
There
But
Mike's
All
Yours
You
Want
To
Shout
Somebody
Out
Take
It
Away
Just
Mike
And
All
The
Florida
Linux
Users
Exchange
People
The
Linux
Chicks
People
IRC
Channel
I
Frequent
FL2600
Local
2600
Groups
The
New
Tampa
Meeting
That's
Starting
Up
Hopefully
They
Can
Have
Heard
This
And
A
Little
Shout
Out
To
Them
Welcome
To
Them
I
Agree
With
All
Those
And
A
Couple
Personal
Shout
Out
I
Got
To
My
Boy
Decoder
You
Know
How
To
Get
In
Touch
Me
And
Anything
I'm
There
For
You
Uh
Oh
I
Heard
A
Tone
There
Speaking
Of
Tones
You
Still
There
Yeah
Tones
We
Got
To
Give
Him
Shout
Out
Man
His
Article
Is
In
The
Current
Issue
Of
2600
Oh
That's
Right
We
Got
To
Give
Him
Shout
Out
That
Was
Really
Cool
And
X
Logic
Or
Just
Plain
Logic
I
You
Know
It's
Not
X
Logic
I
Always
Call
Him
Out
Habit
But
It's
Logic
He
Had
An
Article
Also
In
This
Issue
Of
2600
So
Shouts
Out
To
Him
At
The
Same
Time
He
Also
Got
Ripped
Off
By
Kevin
Rose
His
Little
Shock
Glove
Thing
Which
Yeah
Maybe
The
Idea
Has
Been
Around
But
He's
A
Giant
Tool
And
The
Official
Fuck
Nut
Of
The
Month
There
Goes
My
Bad
Language
Warning
For
The
Show
I
Made
It
All
Way
To
The
End
Too
Yeah
Hey
It's
Good
Because
Actually
He's
Getting
Fired
In
About
60
Days
Yeah
He's
A
Fuck
He's
A
Fuck
Tard
That's
All
I
Have
To
Say
About
That
So
Yeah
That's
A
Good
Week
For
X
Logic
I
Think
Is
A
Little
Track
Called
Hey
16
K
By
MJ
Hibbett
Contacted
Him
He gave
Me
Permission
To
Use
This
Song
Which
Is
Kind
Of
Catchy
Little
Tune
Harkens
Back
To
The
Old
16
K
Days
And
There's
Actually
A
Flashy
Animation
Floating
Out
There
You
Might
Check
Out
Some
I
Don't
Have
The
URL
Of
Hand
I'll
Put
It
In
The
Show
Notes
Later
That's
Kind
Of
Cool
To
Go
Along
With
It
So
That's
Going
To
Do
It
For
This
Episode
45
Coming
To
An
End
I'll
Have
Something
Special
Coming
Up
For
50
But
Thank
You
Si
Pete
For
Being
On
The
Show
I
Appreciate
It
We
Had
A lot
Of
Good
Input
And
You
Were
The
Perfect
Guest
To
Have
On
Here
For
This
So
Have
A Lot
Of
Experience
With
Both
Of
These
Things
So
Thank
You
Very
Much
For
Being
On
And
I
Think
That
Is
Going
To
Do
It
So
Episode
45
Is
In
The
Books
We
End
It
The
Same
Way
We
Always
Do
By
Telling
Everyone
That
We
Will
See
Them
Next
Week
Same
Hack
Time
Same
Hack
Channel
If
Your
Dad
Ever
Works
It
All
Out
Loose
In
The
Library
Writing
Down
The
Pikes
And
Peaks
Copying
An
Access
Code
Gets
A
Taste
For
Home
Savings
But
Is
Not
Making
Rotten
Leaves
And
Rubber
Keys
Random
Local
Screens
And
Five
Minutes
Finger
Strass
Hoping
Not
To
Witness
The
Terror
Of
Our
Tape
Loving
Error
We
Bought
It
To
Help
With
Your
Home
Work
We
Bought
It
To
Help
With
Your
Home
Work
And
A
House
Hold
Account
If
Your
Dad
Ever
Works
It
All
Out
ZX
Witties
Dragon
Vic
And
Or
One
Commodore
64
Amsterdam
And
They
Corn
Electron
Cheaper
BBC
Micro
Jet
So
Whitty
So
Wolf
Of
The
World
So
Trans
And
Of
Manic
Minor
The
Hobbit
And
Night
Lore
And
Elite
It's
Made
A
Generation
Who
Can
Come
Above
All
Before
Proper
Consoles
Who
No
That's
The
Games
You
Get
Today
Well
They
Might
Be
Very
Flash
But
They'll
Never
Beat
The
Thrill
Of
Getting
Cruciate
Pack
Oh
Hey
16
K
What
Does
I
Get
You
Today
You
Need
More
Than
That
For
A
Letter
Old
School
Ramp
That
Sound
That
Better
Personal
Computer
Games
Your
Sinclair
16
Car
Games
And
Competition
Pro
Fashion
Coats
And
Go
The
Dixons
And
By
The
Saturday
Stuff
With
Loops
That
Don't
End
We
Bought
In
To
Help
With
Your
Homework
We
Bought
In
To
Help
With
Your
Homework
And
The
House
Old
Account
If
Your
Dad
Ever
Worked
It
All
Out
Hey
16
K
What
Does
That
Get
You
Today
You
Need
More
Than
That
For
A
Letter
Old
School
Rampax
Are
Much
Better
Hey
16
K
What
Does
I
Care
You
Today
You
Need
More
Than
That
For
A
Letter
Old
School
Rampax
Are
Much
Better
Hey
16
K
What
Is
What
Is
What
Is
What
Is
What
Is