This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you in a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream cats
You need some ISOs? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ, leave you flat on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANS, SIFS, SIS
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
Welcome ladies and gentlemen to Binary Revolution Radio episode 55
Today is July 27th, Tuesday, July 27th
I am Stank Dog and I am joined again this week by ZeroDB in the house
Yo yo!
And we are going to finish up our little hope recap
The fifth hope in New York City that we went to a couple weeks ago
Had a great time and so much in fact that we were not able to get out all of our stories last week
So we are going to try to finish it up this week
And I mean try cause we had quite a few stories
Some that won't make it on the air but we won't go there
No we won't
No, yeah we'll leave some of that
We gotta leave something to the imagination
So I also have some housekeeping to take care of up front today
And a couple emails
But let me get the housekeeping out of the way first
And this is kind of a big thing
I feel really really bad about this
But for anybody listening or anybody that's ordered magazines
And I know some people order the magazines and don't listen to the show
Or don't even know the show exists
So I sent out an email to everyone about this
But I just wanted to put it out on the air
Again we just got back from Hope
You know a week or so ago
And before I went to Hope
Those last few days I was totally cramming
Getting ready for my presentation at Hope
So
Obviously when you're putting all your time into one thing
Other things get neglected
And in this particular case
Orders for the magazine is what got neglected
So
Basically anybody that's ordered since the beginning of January
I've fulfilled a couple of them before I left
But pretty much anybody who's ordered since the beginning
I'm sorry did I say January I meant July
Anybody who's ordered since the beginning of July
A couple of them went out but most of them have not
Again we went to New York
We were gone for a week
A little over a week
By the time we got back
Went back to work and all that kind of stuff
I'm just now getting caught back up on fulfilling order
So please if you're one of those people
I apologize
Again anybody who was affected
I sent an email
So you know who you are
You got an email from me
On Sunday I think
About that
So
Again I apologize
I am getting some printed
I'm going to get a much larger print run this time
It's going to hurt me
It's going to hurt my wallet a little bit
To get that done
But you know I think it's the next step
Of doing this
Generally
You know we're doing this
Not literally out of our basement
But out of our house
Like we said
We're not a professional group here
We don't have printers on call
And stuff like that
It's a pain and difficult
And a very manual process to do this
So
I'm only getting as many printed at a time
50 at a time
Or something like that
As much as I can afford out of pocket
So
It's kind of tough doing it
So
This time I'm going to try to
Get a few hundred of each issue printed
So I have them on hand
On stock
So once I get that
I will start fulfilling those orders
As soon as humanly possible
So
Again I just wanted to put that on the air
I apologize
People are wondering where their orders are
Where their magazines are
So I emailed them
Explained
And hopefully they understand
Also along those same lines
At the HOPE conference
We released issue 2.1
The third issue of our magazine
Issue 2.1
We took them to HOPE
And sold out
So
We
Those are something else
We're getting those printed
As well as the others
So when I get some of those on hand
We're going to get them all printed
At the same time
And once I do
I will put those up on the website
For ordering
So I could put it up now
I've actually already coded the page
And all the transactions
And all that kind of stuff
So I could put it up now
But
I want to wait
Until I physically got them
In my hands
Before I put that up
On the website
To order
But
It will be very soon
As soon as I can get a printer
To take the job
And get them back to me
And
The two printers
I've talked to locally so far
That originally said
They would do it
Ended up backing out on me
At the last minute
It wasn't worth their
Time and money
Or it wasn't worth
They didn't make enough money
I guess
Worthwhile
For such a small print run
So I'm kind of caught
In that position
Where
I've got to get a
I've got to get my foot
In the door
So am I willing
To give us a shot
So
That is what I'm working on
So please
Be patient with us
While we get caught up
And get things going again
And
Let's see
Actually I'm doing something else
I
I usually don't like
Talking about this on the radio
Like doing live installs
And stuff like that
But I am actually installing
Sousa 9.1
On one of my boxes
Right now
I finally got around to
Putting a KVM switch
On my systems
And tying everything
Into my big
21 inch monitor
And got rid of some extra
Freed up some space
By getting rid of
Some of these other
17 and 19 inch monitors
And 15 inch monitors
And moving some stuff around
So
I'm physically cleaning up
My computer room
And
Reinstalling some box
In the process
So
Right now
I'm installing
Sousa 9.1
And I'm going to switch over
Because it might be done now
Now it's 99% done
So
I'm going to
Switch back to that
In a second
And see if I can get that
Installing
But I know
That's kind of
Boring radio
So I'm not going to
Walk through that
Process or anything
But
Thought that might be
An interesting little
Tidbit of trivia there
And
We have
A couple emails
This week
And actually
To introduce our email
We're going to
Try something a little
New this week
So check this out
All right
And our first email
Now is from
Moth
Who says
I'm now
Almost caught up
On episode 49
Now
Great show
Really informative
I really like it
Some of my favorite
Eps are
The GPL ep
One of the first ones
If not the pilot
Where Stank just
Goes off on a huge rant
And kills everyone
I don't think
I killed everyone
Did I
I might have felt
Like I was
And the GPL episode
I think that was
Voodoo Hal and I
And that was a very
Good episode too
I learned a lot
On that episode
Myself
Stank to really
Have his finger
On the pulse
Of the tech world
He will say something
Then weeks
Even months later
A similar article
Will show up
On slash dot
Or tech tv
And he puts in
Parentheses
Robots dot text
Yeah
I've
Had that happen
To me a couple times
But you know what
That's good
That's what I want
I want people
To pick up on these
Stories and run with them
I want to bring them
To people's attention
So if they take it
From my small media
My small show here
And run with it
To the mass media
That's great
That's what I want
So
Kind of is a slap
In the face
But that doesn't
Bother me too much
I think that's
Actually pretty cool
He says
As I was listening
To the show
I was trying to
Think of a way
That I could
Participate in the
Community
I'm not really
A hacker
Although as you've
Said before
I probably don't
Give myself enough
Credit
But I am a
Decent musician
I forget which
Episode it was
But stank
And insert
Random co-host
Here lol
We're talking about
An email theme song
Well I whipped one
Up real quick
It only took me
Like five minutes
To do
So don't feel
Obligated to use it
But I would like
To offer my services
As a composer
For BinReV Radio
Hack TV
And other projects
Perhaps some other
Related projects
Maybe Default Radio
Upcoming HPR
Etc
Anyway
All pitches and
Pimping aside
Great show
Keep it up
So thank you
Moth
For the email
And as you may
Have just heard
We did open
With your email
Introduction
Which was really
Cool
I can't
I can't do that
I can't whip that
Up in five minutes
Five minutes
No
I couldn't whip that
Up in five days
I mean joking aside
I can't do that
Yeah
I can't do that
I mean I don't
Have that
That gift of music
So yeah
Absolutely
If you want to
Write something
And send it in
We could probably
Use it somewhere
Somehow
So absolutely
If you want to
Work on something
Like that
By all means
Do it and send it
Our way
We'll figure out
Something we can do
We'll find some way
If it's nothing else
Than putting it up
On the website
For other people
To enjoy
You know
We'll do something
Like that
And I'm going to
Try to start using
That as our email
If I can get myself
In the habit of doing it
Start opening the email
Bag with that
Since he's given us
Permission
I think that's pretty cool
I liked it
Actually I think
That was a pretty cool
I could listen to a full song
With that style
That beat
That rhythm
That was pretty cool
So
Let's see
We have one more email
And then we're going to
Jump back into our
Talking about hope
And this email
Is from
Jab
J-A-B
Excuse me
It says
Hey
Greetings from Germany
It was a pleasure
Listening to your radio show
But the best thing
Was the remix
Of the theme
At the end of the show
Can I get that track
Somewhere online
I would like some friends
To hear it
Please let me know
Or give me the name
Of the song
Slash
Rapper
That would be very great
Thanks
A lot
Um
Okay
First of all
Germany
I don't know
That we've had an email
From Germany
On the show before
So that's very cool
We get email
From a lot of
Different countries
We maybe
Maybe we need to
I think there's actually
A little app
That you can install
On your web server
That puts up a map
That people can mark
What countries
Or what places
They come from
Put like a little
Virtual pin
On a map
Maybe we need to
Get something like that
Up so we can see
Where our listener base
See where people
Are listening to the show
From
Because I find it
Amazing every time
We get an email
Like this
From some
What I refer to
Obviously being
In the United States
As a distant country
Or you know
So
I might have to
Look into something
Like that
Now
As far as the
Actual
Question here
I'm not exactly
Sure
Do you
Do you understand
Exactly what he's
Asking for here
We don't
End the show
With the same song
Every time
I'm not sure
I don't know
Did you at one point
Play like the
Zero
The full
Blown version
Of Zero
I think at one point
We
We did on the
Like the very first
Show ever
I think
Or one of the
First shows
The pilot
Or the episode
One or something
And I know
We used it on
The
Yeah I know
We used it on
The anniversary
Yeah
So
And he did say
Remix
So maybe
Did he say
Remix
No
Yeah the remix
Of the theme
At the end
Maybe he's only
Heard the anniversary
Show
And thinks that
We end it
With that every time
Anyway
I think everybody
Knows the answer
To this question
By now
Our opening theme
Our theme
To Hack TV
The closing theme
That he's probably
Referring to
I think
Yeah I think
Everybody can answer
That all together
Everybody scream out
Zero
Z-E-A-R-L-E
Dot com
And if you go to
Radio.binrev.com
It's right at the
Top of the page
So
Hey we can't make it
A month without
Getting at least
One of these
Anyway
He's
Got a new listener
Yep
I bet
Man a lot of people
Have been turned on
Zero makes good
Stuff
He really does
So I hope
He's getting a lot
Of press
And a lot of
Support from people
That are being sent
Over there from us
I hope it's working
For him
Okay
So that's it
We're going to
Close up the mailbag
And move into
The show and tell
Our personal
Hacking stories
That we've been
Working on
Because you and I
Had a little adventure
This weekend
And
Me
I've been working on
Trying to get a printer
For the magazine
As I said earlier
And other than that
You and I
Went and
Checked out
Our local
Well semi local
DEFCON meeting
Which they had
Their very first meeting
DC-305
Miami represent
DC-305 meeting
First ever meeting
They had down there
So we went to
Check that
Inaugural meeting out
And after an hour
We found it
Yeah it was pretty fun
It was about
What was it
About close to
20 minute ride
30 minute ride
It was a good ways
Yeah
And
Who was it
Black Fox
I think that was there
Had driven
45 plus minutes
To be there
Hadn't he
That's
Pretty hardcore there
Yeah that's a drive man
That is a drive
But it was pretty good though
It was a little bit better
Than what I expected
For our first meeting
Yeah it was
It was definitely
Different people
Than I was expecting
And I mean that
In a good way
Yeah
In a very good way
I don't mean you know
Yeah
Not exactly what I was expecting
But that just shows you
You shouldn't have
Expectations sometimes
You know
You should just take things
As they are
But
I won't go into
A whole philosophical thing
Yeah it was
Well first of all
This was at a
At a hotel and resort
Spa and resort
Whatever you want to call it
And
I mean if I gotta
If I gotta take a little dig
At the guy
I'm saying this
Joking a little bit
But the directions
Could have been a little better
Because we ended up
Walking around for about
An hour
Trying to find
I won't think
If we were on time
Wait
Hold on
Whoa whoa whoa
I was on time
What do you mean we
Well you wasn't waiting
At the ATM
Like the website said
Well I guess
That's right
You're true
You were standing
On the street
Trying to wave me down
With a red hat
Yeah well
Okay we got in
We got in about
10 or 15 minutes late
We got in 10 or 15 minutes late
So
I guess that's our fault
But once we got in there
We started looking around
We didn't see anybody
Anywhere
There were some
Some
Not conventions
What's the word
Some classes
Or some stuff
Going on
There was a wedding
Going on
There was all kinds of
There were some events
Going on in different rooms
But we didn't see any of them
That looked like
You know
A DEF CON meeting
We were walking around
Asking people
Hey do you know anything about
You know we didn't want to
Come out and say
You know hey
We're looking for a hacker meeting
And
Also we didn't know
If this was on the down low
If we needed to keep this quiet
So
It's really an awkward situation
To be in
Trying to find out
Where this was at
And
Luckily
Just as we were about to give up
We stopped and asked
One last person
Just as a stab in the dark
Thinking maybe she'd know
What was going on
And sure enough
She pointed us in the right direction
And we found
Where they were meeting at
Which was off the beaten path
Yeah
Kind of off the side there
So
Once we found it
Everything was good to go
Yeah
And we did a little
Social engineering along the way
Got a little
Username and password
To the wireless network
Yeah
I mean it was pretty easy
Yeah
That was too easy
Yeah that wasn't much of a
Well
Well I guess he saw us
Walking around in the lobby
For that
Like the
Fifteenth time
Back and forth
Right
So I guess he said
Oh you know what
I guess maybe I'll just
Give these guys
Some free internet
For a little bit
Yeah and it's all in the way
You approach people too
And I've said this so many times
You know 75% of social engineering
Is just being nice to people
And talking to them
That's true
And you'll get so many favors
And treated so kindly in return
Right
So he was cool enough
To set us up
And give us a username and password
To access the network
And see if we could look up
See if anything had happened
To the meeting
And um
What was that with that guy
That was in there
I never did figure him out
Actually we were
We meant to
We were going to talk
About him later on
And I don't think
We've ever gotten around
To figuring out
What his deal was
I'm not sure
I think he was actually
Doing some hacking himself
You know
Because the way he looked around
When he opened the door
And then
You know
It's funny that we were
Doing a little hacking
And we were looking
Over our shoulder
But at the same time
He was looking over his shoulder
Yeah
Which he was not there
For the DEFCON meeting
No
He was just a
I don't know what he was
I think he was probably
There for that
Either the Cisco
Or the
Yeah there was a Cisco
Training
Thing going on there
That weekend as well
I think CCNA
I believe it is
Yeah
So he might have been
With that
But you looked over
And he was
What was he
Okay now
Let's back up
They have a little room
Set aside
As a courtesy to guests
Apparently
With some laptops
They're tied down
Of course
But laptops
That you can get access to
If you don't have
One of your own
A little room
With secure
You have to have
A room key
Or whatever
To get into the room
Period
Right
Which this gentleman
Again was nice enough
To give us
The person working
It was nice enough
To give us that
As well as a username
To get on
And we went in there
And were surprised
That there was another person
In there using the computer
Did they have what
Three or four laptops
In there
Actually
I think it was two
One
The one you were using
And the one to the right of you
I think he brought his own
Oh
Because he had a little
Bright bag there
Oh is that what I saw
Okay
Yeah
Plus
I think he was running XP
And those two laptops
Must have been
Either 98 or 2000 maybe
Hmm
Yeah
I couldn't
I don't recall
But I don't think
It was an XP machine
No
I think the one
That I was using
Was a 2000 box
So
Yeah
He definitely had
His own laptop
He was doing some
Fantasy Nancy stuff
Over there himself
Yeah
You said you looked over
And what was he doing
Trace routes
I peeked over his shoulder
And he was doing
Some trace routes
And he was doing
Some IP configs
So
You know
I'm not sure
I guess he was trying
To map out a network
Himself
I don't know
Yeah
But why would he be
Doing that on the
Hotels network
Unless he was
Well
I have no idea
Yeah
Anyway
That was interesting
And he was transferring
Some files or something
I saw he was doing
Or installing some
Other kind of stuff
And
You know
He stood up
At one point
You know
I'm not sure
If he was trying
To block the screen
Or
I don't know
Yeah
Right
But he was
Looking over his shoulder
As well
Yeah
And
Was that shirt
He had on
It was some kind
Of security
Shirt
But I don't know
If it was a physical
Security thing
Or a computer
Security shirt
I didn't quite catch it
Oh
Because he was
Because he was a
Pretty big guy
So I didn't know
If it was a physical
Security bouncer
Type shirt
But yeah
Because he was in there
I was
Kind of
Having to block
A little bit myself
And look over my shoulder
So I was limited
In how much playing
I could do
Plus
You know
You and I
Kind of said it too
We didn't want to
Push our luck too much
The guy was actually
Pretty nice
To give us
Access to the computer
We definitely
Weren't going to
Go in there
And stir up anything
But yeah
We were just going
To check it out
And see what
Kind of system it was
And you know
How it was set up
Which there's
Nothing wrong with that
Some of the funny stuff
Was
And you know what
I'm going to give
A little bit of advice
Out to our listeners
Most of them
Already know this
But for those of you
Who never thought about it
Or considered it
When you go to sites
Like for example
Hotmail
Or Amazon
There's a little button
And I'll stick with
Hotmail
Because it's a good example
On Hotmail
There's a little button
Down there
A little check box
That says
Do not save my information
Is this a publicly used computer
And anytime you're in
A publicly used computer
In a library
A coffee shop
Anything like that
Check that box
Because that prevents it
From saving any information
Any cookie
Or anything like that
From the site
Because if you go back
To Hotmail
Without doing that
It will fill in
Your account name
Or your email address
That you log in
It won't fill in
Your password
Of course
Unless you also
Set it up
To save that as well
Which you can
So hopefully
You don't do anything
Like that
But also
You don't want to give
Somebody just the username
Alone
Right
When I got on that computer
And went to check
And see if I had gotten
An email
That there was something
Changed about the meeting
Is the reason I was checking
When I went to check
My email
Well the person before me
Their username
Came up
So
A
The potential is there
You know the username
You can brute force passwords
If you really wanted to
For whatever reason
Which I had no reason to
But
You know
You can have it brute forced
B
Since his email address
It's a
Hotmail account
You know he has
An MSN messenger account
Of the same thing
I could contact him
Instant message him
Harass
Whatever you wanted to do
That's dangerous
So you don't want to
Leave your information
Out in the public terminal
For that reason
And
That may be
The same username
You use for a lot of
Other sites
And stuff like that
So just leaving something
Like that open
Is definitely not
A good idea
Definitely a bad idea
And the reason I say
Amazon as well
Because the same person
I showed it to you
And we laughed
But I don't know
If you realize
That was the exact
Same username
On Amazon
As it was on Hotmail
Now he used the same
Username
And right there
On Amazon
I could see
What was in his
Shopping cart
I could see
The items he had
In there
Very
Very dangerous
Someone malicious
Could do bad
Things with that
But also
Even the initial
Login screen
Dropped down
What
If I'm not mistaken
It dropped down
The username
Which was Smith
Oh yeah
Right
Yeah
Even the passcode
They have a whole
Crap load of
A list
Of all the
The passcodes
And I'm like
Well
Well that
Okay now that
Yeah what you're
Referring to there
Just because the
Listeners probably don't
Let's explain
This was
Just like
For example
A T-Mobile hotspot
Or any of those
Pay for use
Applications
Or pay for use
Sites
Where you have to
Authenticate
They want you to
Pay for your time
Or for how many
Hours you want to
Use or charge you
By minute or
Whatever
They present you
With a web page
That you have to
Log into and
Authenticate to get
Out of the local
Network and get to
The internet
And that's what
This particular one
Was
Do you remember
What the brand
Or who was
Offering it
Was it Sprint
Yeah it was
Definitely a
Sprint connection
Yeah it was a
Sprint of some sort
And you
I guess you could
Go to the hotel
And pay for it
Or you could
Probably add it
On to the tab
For your room
Or something
Which adds a lot
Of possibilities
There especially
If you know
Someone's username
That they left
Into their
Hotmail account
But we won't
Go there
But
What was your
Room by the way
Yeah
What the person
Had done for us
To be nice for us
Was he set up
An account called
Smith
And he gave us
A passcode
Well when I was
Typing in Smith
The first
There were basically
Two input fields
When I typed in
And they were both
Plain text
So when I typed
In the first
S
I noticed
That it
Immediately dropped
Down
And this is
An internet
Explorer thing
It'll save
Entries
It'll do that
Auto complete
So that's turned
On or it was
Turned on on
This machine
That's something
Else you want
To turn off
Or clear out
When you're done
Auto complete
Came up
So when I put
In an S
It immediately
Popped up
With Smith
So someone
Had done this
Before
Someone had
Gotten on
With this
Free account
Before
So I backed
Up
And you can
Just click
In it
With no
Letters
And it'll
Bring a
Drop down
List of
All of the
Usernames
Of people
Who've logged
In before
So again
You can see
The potential
With that
Is same
As we
Mentioned
Before
But not
Only that
When I
Tab down
And went
To the
Pass key
Which is a
Four digit
Numeric
Number
Numeric
Number
That's pretty
Redundant
It was a
Four digit
Number
And that
Also
When you
Press down
You could
See all
Of the
Numbers
And the
Passcodes
And what
Did we
Determine
That that
Was a
Room
Number
Or no
Well
I don't
Think it's
A room
Number
Because
I think
Well
I don't
Think it was
Really a
Room
Number
Because it
Was a
Four digit
Number
But I
Think the
The actual
Rooms
Were
Three
Digits
From what
I can
Tell
Three
Digits
And a
Number
And a
Letter
Yeah but
For example
Building
Eight
Room
113
That's
Four digits
Uh no
Well
Yeah well
Yeah we
Don't know
But
One
Alpha
Numerically
Like a
Building
Say like
Building
Eight
Right
Um
And then they
Would have
Actually
The room
Number which
Was
I recall
Three
Digit
Number
And then
An
Alpha
Numeric
Number
I'm
Not
Sure
How
They
Came
Up
With
Alpha
Numeric
After
The
Three
But
That
Might
Have
Been
A special
For the
Swede
Or
Anyway
Point
Being
The potential
Is that
It could
Have
Been
That
We
Don't
Know
If
It
Was
Or
Not
But
Again
Plain
Text
Right
There
That
You
Can
Drop
Down
And
See
And
Even
Though
We
Can't
Sit
Here
And
Brainstorm
The
Pattern
Off
The
Top
Of
Our
Head
If
We
Were
Sat
Down
With
That
List
In
Front
Of
Us
We
Might
Have
Been
Able
To
Figure
Out
The
Pattern
That
Goes
Along
With
It
However
As bad
As that
Sounds
I
Do
Suspect
That
They
Have
To
Activate
That
Back
At
The
Desk
Somehow
So
Even
If
We
Found
The
I
Don't
Came
Back
So
Well
We
Might
Be
Able
To
Find
Out
Next
Month
Maybe
Yeah
We
Might
Just
Do
That
So
Anyway
Yep
We
Did
That
We
Visited
The
Wedding
Party
Yeah
We
Well
Think
Dog
That
Was
Kind
Of
Like
I
Wouldn't
Have
Done
That
I
Just
Paid
My
Respect
That
All
We
Did
Actually
We
Did
A
Little
Bit
Of
Urban
Exploration
If
You
Want
To
Call
It
Checking
Looking
For
The
Meeting
And
Checking
Out
The
Wedding
Party
And
Checking
Out
The
Other
Events
Going
On
And
Eventually
Like
We
Said
We
Found
The
Meeting
So
Now
You
Going
Into
This
Meeting
You
Had
Actually
Just
Come
Earlier
That
Day
You
Had
Just
Come
From
A
Computer
Show
Am
I
Correct
Right
Yeah
We
In
Fort
Lyle
Yeah
At
A
Computer
Show
That
They
Have
Pretty
Once
A
Month
And
You
Had
A
Specific
Purchase
In
Mind
Yeah
I
Was
Actually
Going
To
Try
To
Get
A
Another
Laptop
Preferably
I
Think
That
I
Don't
They
Want
Um, even though eBay is a little bit cheaper and you can probably find a little bit better
deal.
And yes, they have, you know, the actual stores, um, actually put their product up, but still
I like to put my hands on it.
I like to see it.
Um, but other than that, I actually did purchase one.
Um, I think I got a pretty good deal.
I could have got a better deal, but pretty good.
You don't have to talk about the financial part, but what are the specs of the machine
you bought?
Actually, this one's a, it's a T20 IBM ThinkPad, a P3 700, uh, 256 mega RAM.
I think it was, has a 12 gig hard drive, I believe.
Yeah.
Also, just for, I'm going to switch over to that Sousa box while you talk about that.
So, and, uh, you know, although it's not an IM machine, I only got it pretty much to run
my Plan 9 on because I wanted to do a couple of presentations.
Um, and it wouldn't work on my Toshiba because my video wasn't supported with Plan 9, but
nonetheless, I knew ThinkPad would do the job and everything's working fine with it.
I installed Plan 9 on it, everything's working cool.
Got it up on the internet, I'm doing all of my little configurations and, uh, changing
some of the script files and tailoring it how I like it.
Um, so, hopefully.
Well, you spent an hour trying to get the resolution.
Well, yeah, that, yeah, there's, I'm just messing with you.
The screen size here is kind of like a funky screen size and the front doesn't, it's kind
of, looks archaic, but, um, I mean, I can read it, it doesn't have to be all that pretty
just as long as it does what I need to do and it, so far it's been doing that.
Um, compared to my other 600, what did I have it, 600E, I think that, and the keyboard
went out on me twice.
So, um, I was kind of reluctant to even get another IBM, but, um, the guy that I bought
this from told me a little bit of something about those P2s, so, he said, the P3 should
do me much, much better and, so far, haven't had a problem.
Yeah, I think that's probably right.
Yeah.
I, um, I just switched over, like I said, and Yast is just finishing up the installation.
I don't know if it's the KVM switch now that I've got going on here or what, but the mouse
is really jumping all over the place.
Uh-oh.
So, something's fishy, so I'm trying to keyboard navigate through all of this GUI install of
Yast.
The last time I installed SUSE was using the text-based install, so this is kind of, uh,
tricky.
Yep.
Take your time.
That's a good look.
Actually, you didn't mention your favorite feature on that laptop.
Oh, I forgot.
Man, this has got to be, like, the coolest thing I've seen.
I mean, I've never seen, maybe, maybe, I don't know.
I'm pretty sure some of the other guys out there have probably seen this before and probably
not a big deal to you, but to me, there's a function key, and on the page down key, there's
like a little light, and on the actual monitor, on the actual, I guess, the flat screen part
of the ThinkPad, there's like a little hole there with a light there.
And when you do a function page up, it actually has a built-in light so you can actually do
your coding and do whatever you need to do in complete darkness.
And that's like the coolest thing I've seen on a laptop, as opposed to using, like, those
USB lights, you know, and the lamps and all this, and the freaking glasses with the bulbs
on the side and all that kind of nonsense.
But this is, I'm pretty impressed with the ThinkPad, really.
I'm impressed, and I like it.
Actually, it is a good box.
It's very compatible, one of the most compatible laptops.
I just got an error on my boot manager.
It does not like Lilo because, yikes, what is this?
Okay, this is bad radio.
We're going to have to look at this offline, but it did not like, one of the alias contains
a blank character.
By default, memory test is something it created, but it was expecting Grub, so maybe I should
set it back to Grub.
I guess so, yeah, I guess so.
Much as I don't particularly like Grub, but whatever.
Well.
Anyway.
Yeah, so have you got it up and running completely now, or?
Oh, yeah.
Everything's up and running.
I'm able to, I got it on the net.
I'm able to check my mail.
Let me see.
There are a couple of little things that I want to try to get working.
For some reason, a Wi-Fi card isn't working on it.
I don't get a link, you know.
And I know I'm within range of a Wi-Fi signal, but for some reason it's not giving me a link.
I'll work on that a little bit later.
But other than that, it's working like a charm.
Not a problem.
Hopefully, the next 2600 meeting I can do a little intro or something to Plan 9.
I wish we could do it somewhere where we have an internet connection, though.
Yeah, I'm.
So I can show the full potential.
Right.
That was the first I had seen of Plan 9, was watching you kind of set it up and install.
And it was definitely unique.
It's not something I had seen before.
You were very right in your description saying that it's very mousy.
Yeah, very, very mousy.
It is very mousy.
Everything is done with the mouse.
That's going to take some getting used to.
Because it's mousy, but at the same time it requires a lot of typing.
So that's kind of awkward a little bit.
I guess that's something you get used to after a while.
And I think the whole reasoning behind that is because, remember I showed you where you can select, highlight,
and then send it to the command line instead of typing out the whole command again?
Right.
I guess the whole reasoning behind that is the mouse is actually quicker than trying to type out a whole bunch of things.
Like, you know, if you have a regular expression that you're putting in that you're trying to change a text file or whatever,
and you can, you know, you select the whole line and you can actually go ahead and edit it quicker with the mouse.
And also with Play9, there is no, what do they call it, keyboard, I think I'm screwing this up here, keyboard addressing,
I think that's what they call it.
Well, basically, you can't use the arrows to navigate.
You know, if you use the up and down arrow, it will actually move the terminal page up and down.
You know, there is no character or keyboard addressing like in Linux or in Windows where you could use the arrows to go where you want.
Well, they're not mapped to, right.
Right, if you need to actually go between a letter, you know, between two letters or delete a letter,
you actually have to use the mouse and click on that location and then use the backspace or do whatever editing you want.
Or you can use your, you know, if you're in a file, you could use red expressions, you know.
That's something I don't like the sound of particularly, but again, I guess it's just part of it and you've got to get used to it.
Right, it is definitely a programmer's operating system, you know.
Yeah.
And sometimes it's definitely not meant to be made for the mass and everybody to use.
Right.
But, and then again, that's kind of like what I like, you know.
I like the unique things.
I like different things.
Right.
Right, and now that I've got this KVM switch going in here, I have a fourth port available and I've got it already promised out.
But I've just got to get, I've got another box laying here that I want to get working and it's an old K62400MHz chip,
which should be plenty enough to run Plan 9, correct?
Oh, yeah.
So, and it's got a good amount of memory on it.
What's memory?
So.
How much memory is that?
It's at least 256.
It's probably 512.
Oh, that's plenty.
Yeah, I think all of my boxes have 512 or more.
I mean, memory is just the biggest increase in productivity and, you know, in my opinion.
So I'm always, I always make sure I get plenty of memory in my boxes.
All right.
So, I guess now, unless you had anything else, we can go on to some talking a little bit about hope.
Oh, yeah.
That is the main topic of the show, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
We were supposed to be doing this, talking about hope anyway.
Well, we've still got plenty of time to talk about hope.
I'm actually going to bring up here real quick, because I didn't do it beforehand.
I was not properly prepared to bring up the list of speakers.
And I thought we'd go down through some of the speaker list.
Obviously, it would take a long time to go through all of them, and we don't have time to do that.
But, let's see the schedule here.
Okay.
On Friday.
Now, you actually, I think, went to more presentations than I did.
Basically, I lost Friday.
Friday was pretty much a wash for me.
I went to a couple of presentations, but I spent most of my time getting my own presentation ready.
And Saturday morning definitely was a wash for me.
So, I didn't really get to go to too much stuff until Saturday afternoon.
Well, even Saturday evening, I was at Slip Modes.
I was on the panel at Slip Modes presentations.
So, I really didn't get to see as many as I liked.
But, I did go to a few of them.
And I think you went to a few other ones, different ones than I did.
So, I thought we'd kind of go through here and see.
Now, Friday, anything before noon, forget about it.
So, just skip right over that.
No way.
Actually, I think I was up early that day.
Oh, man.
I don't know how.
Yeah, yeah.
Remember?
Yeah.
Because I got up.
Remember I got up.
Let me see.
I was about maybe eight or nine and you were still asleep.
You said, oh, I'm not bothered.
I'm tired.
That was the day you didn't get to sleep for the past four days.
Yeah.
Four days.
But, yeah.
I actually caught the opening.
It should just be against the rules for any hacking convention to start before noon.
That should just be a standard rule.
But, anyway.
I digress.
That's just a joke.
So, you went to the opening.
Yeah.
I did catch the guy that was talking about the war on terrorism.
Bruce, what was his name?
Bruce.
You're not talking about Robert Steele?
Oh, Bruce Schneider.
Yeah, yeah.
About the war on terrorism.
You know, off and on, I was kind of like in and out because I was kind of like walking
around still.
Going upstairs and downstairs and 18th floor and, you know, walking around.
But I did get bits and parts of that.
Securities, liberties, and trade-offs in the war on terrorism.
That was the name of that presentation.
Right, right.
I don't know if it's Schneider or Schneier.
I don't know if it's a typo on here.
Schneier or Schneier?
I don't know.
Schneier?
I don't know.
S-C-H-N-E-I-E-R.
Yeah.
Schneier?
I don't know.
Anyway.
Well, apologies to him if we mispronounce it.
All right, Bruce.
Maybe we'll get it right.
Yeah.
But that one, I caught bits and pieces of that off and on.
And it's, you know, it was, I guess, okay, the little pieces I caught.
Just pretty much talking about how stupid, some of the things we do.
But anyway.
Yeah.
I try not to get too political about things.
I mean, after all, this is a hack of the convention.
Right.
And I actually, I was going to save that comment for the end of our whole discussion.
And I will.
I'm going to save that for the end.
So, yeah.
Because of what you just said, that had no interest for me whatsoever.
I wasn't even, didn't even want to go see that presentation.
Right.
Now, the one right after that, wireless and Wi-Fi, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I wouldn't have mind seeing that.
But I don't know what new information they could have possibly had or if they had.
I don't know.
I didn't really catch any of that.
I didn't really see any of that.
I think at that point I was, like, downstairs maybe.
Yeah.
And actually, after that one in Section A was actually the first presentation I caught.
And I made myself wake up at 2 o'clock, which I know that sounds funny.
But I made myself get up by 2 o'clock to go see this one.
And that's when corporations attack.
And this was Acidus and Virgil because I had actually, I don't know, I shouldn't say worked with them.
But I actually had followed their case.
And without going into a lot of detail, we're actually going to try to have Acidus and or Virgil on some upcoming shows.
And maybe we'll talk about it as much as they're allowed to.
But basically, they did some research and investigation to Blackboard, which is a college ID card system.
But it's also other things besides that.
But in their case, they were really looking at the ID card system, particularly at their university.
And Blackboard didn't take very kindly to that.
So issued a cease and desist.
They were going to present a presentation at Interzone, Interzone 3.
And I guess at the last minute, they got a notification that they were being sued.
And long story short, they ended up settling it, which to a pretty amicable deal, if I say so myself.
I don't know if they'd agree with me.
I don't want to put words in their mouth.
But it seemed like a fair balance.
It was awfully scary and intimidating and a little bit unnecessary, I think, the way they went about it, coming into someone's hotel room an hour before and issuing them a subpoena under a whatever.
Anyway, it was kind of tricky the way they did it.
And again, I think the agreement was that they're really not supposed to talk about certain aspects of it.
But what they did talk about, again, the name of this presentation was When Corporations Attack.
So the two of them, along with Dan Morgan from Satellite News, is that what it was called?
Satellite News, the old newsletter.
He got in some trouble also from the satellite TV companies shutting him down for distributing information about how they worked.
And Wendy Seltzer and representatives from the EFF all on a panel talking about that very subject, about how, well, not how, but telling a little bit about their particular stories.
And as crude as it sounds, how much they sucked being in that situation.
I wish I could say something more eloquently, but it just sucked for them and what they had to go through.
And, again, I had sent some information to them because I had followed up on their case and I knew something about Blackboard.
So I kind of had been following these guys, Acidus and Virgil, that is.
So I was able to meet up with them afterwards and talk about some of that kind of stuff with them.
Talk about some things that I had found and, you know, just basically show us support.
Tell them that, you know, I think they did get kind of steamrolled there a little bit.
So they actually were really good guys, so I'm glad I got to meet up with them.
And work on, possibly work on some other projects.
So that was definitely a good presentation, I thought.
Okay.
And at the same time, however, there was also another good presentation in B that I would have liked to have seen.
Security through diversity from Java Man.
Obviously I didn't get to see that because I was over in A for this one.
And so I'm waiting now for that one to be released on DVD or whatever they're going to do.
If they're going to put it on the web for what download or whatever so that I can catch some of the ones that I missed.
Because of reasons like this where I was in one room instead of the other or, you know, or just was asleep through it one or the other.
Right.
So, yeah, I did get up at, that was 2 o'clock in room A for that one.
So I did check that out.
And that was pretty good.
I like that.
And I have to say, Acidus made a point that I thought the best point of the whole presentation that he made was,
I think it was actually prompted by an audience question, if I remember correctly, saying, you know, what do you do to avoid this happening to you?
We're hackers and, you know, releasing information is a dangerous game because people don't want information released.
And without going into the, you and I get into these debates that last hours on that subject.
And we don't have that for the show, so we'll let that go for another time.
But somebody asked, you know, what can you do?
What do you do to protect yourself?
Because you do want to do this kind of research.
You do want to find out how it works.
That's what hackers do.
We like digging in and figuring that kind of stuff out.
What do you do to protect yourself?
And he made the comment, first of all, he reiterated that, yes, it's learning.
And there's nothing wrong with learning.
Learning should be a great thing.
So he said, you know, yes, you want to learn about it and that's fine, but you also have to protect yourself.
And his advice, and I truly, absolutely support this, was to document every step along the way of what you are doing.
You don't have to release it to anybody.
You don't have to tell somebody and document externally going, hey, I'm looking at your company and this is what I'm doing.
Just for your own personal benefit so that if later on down the road you get a subpoena or you get attacked by somebody or you get accused, I don't know how much weight it would carry in court, but it would sure go, I think it would go very far for you to show to the judge or show to whoever and say, listen, I was doing research, I was studying, and I kept a log or a journal.
And here's everything I did, step one, I did this, I only did this, I did not do that.
And cover yourself and show that you didn't do anything damaging, you didn't do anything threatening, you didn't do anything illegal.
You know, cover yourself and show what you actually did and did not do so that if they start accusing you, oh, you did this and you did that, you can say, listen, I've got a clear log and I know for a fact I did not do that.
Now, again, I don't know how much legal weight that would carry, but I think that would go much further than you would imagine in court.
I think showing that you went to that trouble would carry a lot of weight.
So I think that was very, very good advice from him.
It would definitely raise some eyebrows.
Yeah.
And, you know, my other attitude on life in general, and especially hacking, is it can't hurt.
You know, take that extra step to protect yourself.
Make that log.
Because, you know what, even if it doesn't help you in court, it doesn't hurt.
Right.
You know, so you might as well take a shot.
It might help you out in the long run.
It might not, but it might.
So, you know, and it also, for me, I'm an organizational freak.
I try to keep notes on stuff anyway because it helps me to keep my mind flowing, keep everything organized.
So I very much support that comment.
Now, that was at 2 o'clock.
Now, I didn't get to anything else again until the keynote at 4, which was Kevin Mitnick.
Did you make anything else between then?
No.
Actually, I walked out.
I didn't even get to see Kevin.
Well, I saw maybe the first five minutes.
Then it began to get to a point where I couldn't breathe in there.
So I decided, you know what, I've got to get out of here.
And it was just too many people, man.
It wasn't even buried enough room to breathe in there, really.
Yeah, it was packed.
And I find out later after the fact from our forums at forums.binrev.com, that apparently
there was a, we were right at the fire marshal limit of how many people were allowed on that
room.
Believe it.
But myself, I was back at the vendor booth at that point.
I was hanging out with Sub-Zero and Johnny Lightning and Epiphany and some of those guys
back there at our booth.
So we were already in.
So, but yes, I heard stories of other people saying they got turned away and they were actually
denied they're not allowed to come in because they were over capacity.
So.
Definitely a lot of people in that damn, I mean, it was a, it was a pretty big size hall
there, you know, but man, it was a lot of people, a lot of people.
Yeah.
And that was Kevin's first, um, public speech or public, uh, that was actually his first
HOPE conference.
That's what I'm saying.
At, at, at a HOPE conference for all that, you know, all that he's tied down or tied to
2600 and associated with, this was the first time that he's been able to actually speak.
So, um, yeah, I was there for that.
I was, like I said, in the back.
So I didn't, I, here's my recommendation.
If anybody from HOPE is listening next year, extend those speakers on into the back.
Uh, one extra section, cause back there in the vendors area, we could be, we could see
everything, but we didn't quite hear it.
If you could take one more set of speakers, bring them back a little bit further, we could
have heard it all back there and it would have been, been able to, to watch and enjoy
them as well as, uh, tending the booths.
That would have been cool, but I still was able to pick up most of it.
I'd walked up there a couple of times to, to pick some things up and I actually, um, not
theory and I bumped into Kevin and Darcy going down the elevator.
They were as nice as they could be to us.
Yeah.
Um, very approachable.
I didn't have any problems.
Um, apparently they were forced to have security.
I guess that's the, I don't know how true that story is, but I guess Emmanuel wanted to make
sure that they had a, uh, proper security at the conference.
So, um, and I, I did see security with them a couple of times, but I bumped into Kevin two
or three times that weekend, spoke to him for a few minutes each time.
Um, nice as he, nice guy as he could be, didn't have any problems, very approachable, really,
really a good guy.
Him and Darcy both, they were very, very nice, approachable people and, uh, I was very impressed
by that.
Yeah, he's a pretty nice guy.
Yeah.
Pretty nice guy.
And, um, at the, uh, book signing, uh, Fire Door was also there, the, uh, gentleman that,
uh, created InMap.
Uh-huh.
A lot of, uh, you know, a lot of us that used InMap, he was there signing books, Fire Door,
right next to, um, Kevin.
I actually, I think I have a picture on the, uh, site with Fire Door and Kevin there right
next to us doing book signings.
Yeah, I, I made a mistake on that.
I actually, I was sitting back there behind our booth and I, I kept saying, you know,
okay, he sat down, he's got all these people lined up for autographs.
I'm like, I'll just wait until the line goes down.
I'll just wait until the line goes down.
And, of course, the line never went down.
Never went down, bro.
Yeah, so, yeah, I got killed on that one, but oh well.
Yeah, but you did, uh, talk to Fire Door, huh?
Yeah, I talked to him.
I talked to, um, Kevin, like I said, and, um, you know, I actually, I talked to a lot of people.
Yeah, it was a little dizzy, man.
It was like, you turn your back, you see somebody else.
You turn this way, you see somebody else.
This person talking, that person talking.
Yeah, and people coming up.
It was like, man.
Tapping on the shoulder and wanting to meet you and talking to people that you didn't know
and meeting people that you didn't.
Yeah, it was, but it was, but it was good.
It was good.
It was constant.
Yeah, oh, it was great.
I had a, I had a blast.
It was a great weekend.
I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Yep.
I mean, I, again, I had a couple issues and I'll, I think I will bring them up later,
but all in all, it was definitely a good, good thing.
Um, now I know after Kevin was a presentation on CryptoPhone, which I did not go to, but
I heard a couple other people, I think Natus went to, or, no, Natus, I don't remember if
he went to it or said he wanted to and missed it.
No, I think Natus went to it and wanted to see it again.
So, I think it must have been pretty good.
Oh, no, I didn't make that.
Yeah, what was the next, now, okay, um.
Off the hook, the broadcast.
Yeah, that, I was going to say, what was the next one you went to?
I didn't get to anything again until that off the hook broadcast.
Yeah, after the, uh, the keynote speak on Friday, um, I pretty much, you know, just let
everything air.
I think I went to go get something to eat at that point or something to come back for off
the hook.
Yeah.
And off the hook also was very crowded from what I understand, too.
Yeah, but, you know, yeah.
Yeah, again, I was there for the off the hook.
Actually, that, that is when, between Kevin's speech and the off the hook broadcast is when
a bunch of us got together, um, from DDP and kind of spent some time, and I think we did
go out and grab a bite to eat and come back.
Yeah.
Um, and we sat down, kind of, it took up a row or two.
Right.
Watching the off the hook broadcast, so that was pretty cool to, to sit down as a group for
the first time and, uh, you know, talk with a bunch of the guys, Cessna and Duel and
Slip Mode and, and you and Wintermute and myself, a bunch of people there watching that.
So, that was pretty cool.
And after that, actually, you know what?
I left early.
I remember this now.
I left early from the off the hook, um, because I wanted to go over to the, at, at, um, nine
o'clock, I think it was, the automotive presentation was going on over in conference room B.
So, I left the off the hook broadcast early because I knew it would be available for MP3
later.
So, I excused myself and went over to the automotive network, which didn't have nearly as many
people there as I would have hoped or would have expected.
I know I'm a little bit of a car geek or whatever, um, but I went over there to check
that out, um, and it was, uh, like I said, not nearly as crowded as I was expecting.
Um, it was kind of hard to hear the presentation and see the slides.
The fonts were kind of small, um, but it was an interesting topic, I thought, and something
I want to research more, the Open Auto Project, I believe it was called.
Oh, yeah.
So, Open O-T-T-O.
So, you can go out and search and check that out.
Um, so I went and saw that, and I think that was it for me for the night.
Uh-huh.
Did you catch anything else Friday night?
Um, no, after, no, after the actual off the hook, I think that was pretty much it.
Um.
And we went out in the town Saturday night, didn't we?
Yeah, we went out about...
Did we go out Friday?
We went out Friday, Saturday, we went out every night.
Oh, yeah, we, I think we did a little EU on Friday, and, and...
A little what?
A little UE?
UE.
I said EU, oh my gosh.
I thought you, I wasn't sure.
Yeah, UE.
We went to the European Union?
I don't remember that.
Oh.
Oh, yeah, we did some UE, and we have footage of that.
That'll probably, that'll probably make a Hack TV episode sometime soon.
And, um, actually, we couldn't find you.
We went out to, we did some more urban exploration that, unfortunately, you weren't able to make,
but I have some footage of that as well.
That was really...
Oh, that's when you went back, oh, when you went back out.
Yeah, we went across town and did some, some UE that, um...
Oh, I know what happened.
Yeah, I want to keep...
When we, when we got back from the first one, I was on the 18th floor listening to that, you know.
We were pretty much, um, who was it?
Um, Nata?
I'm not sure if it was, if it was Pete and I, or basically it was two of us, we were sitting there, you know,
after we split up behind the elevators there, and, uh, we made it to the 18th floor.
But then, uh, that's when you called me a little while after.
I was trying to find out where we were at, and I said we were up here, you know, on the 13th, on the 18th floor,
listening to the, uh, panel.
And, well, not really listening, but pretty much just playing out in the terminals.
And I think that's when you got, you left again.
But I didn't know where you was going.
Yeah, I didn't know where I was going, truthfully.
I was following.
Yeah, so I think after I finished that terminal, I went to go see where you guys were at.
I thought maybe you went into the, uh, Area B, or, you know, another one of those areas,
but I didn't see you, so I guess.
And then when I got, when we caught up with you later, well, the next, well, later that morning,
that's when you said you guys went out on, uh, another little, uh...
Yeah, and when I, when I did finally come back with gigantic blisters on my toes,
I had a blister on my pinky toe that was bigger than my pinky toe.
Yeah, and you wanted to try that.
No, we, we'll save that story for later, too.
Let's just say we left a nice little gift for the, uh...
That's nasty.
Yeah, that was pretty gross, but hey, um, what are you going to do?
Hey, you, hey, it was your idea.
You dared me to do it.
Well, I...
Okay, we'll save that later.
That was a pocket knife, and I was about to give you a pocket knife.
Well, let's stick with the, uh, let's stick with the presentations, and we'll do those stories later.
Um, when I came back from my little UE adventure, and from yet another trip to White Castle,
Um, when I came back...
Oh, yeah, White Castle.
Yeah, when I came back, I, that's, I spent the rest of the night.
We got back probably three, two or three a.m.
I spent the rest of that night down there with slip mode, the two of us working on our presentations,
because we both presented Saturday evening.
So I spent the rest of the night down there until about six a.m.,
and I came back to the room doing some rendering for my video for my presentation,
and, and tried to catch some sleep, which I couldn't, I didn't.
I ended up getting to bed around eight or nine, actually.
Um, but I don't know where you were.
It's six a.m., about quarter till six, I got back to the room.
You were not there.
I wasn't there.
Nope.
I don't know where you were at six in the morning.
You were down, you were in a movie room.
I was down there with the other hacker down there, the, um...
The guy that was rooting the box.
Yeah, the guy that was rooting four terminals down there.
Yeah, we talked about him last week.
Yeah, and the, uh, 2600, yeah.
Yeah, so, so, Saturday morning was a wash for me.
Did you, were you able to catch anything Saturday morning?
Let me see, Saturday, oh, lockpicking.
I...
You made that?
I saw, uh, you know, a little bit of the lockpicking.
And also, I, I actually went to the, you know, on the, uh, let me see, second floor, they had the little lockpicking class pretty much running throughout the con, where you could just go down, sit down, and pick rocks all day if you wanted.
Right.
And, uh, actually, I got a couple picked.
Oh, yeah.
It wasn't as hard as I thought I was going to be.
You didn't tell me the story.
I didn't know you actually went down there for that.
Yeah, I went to the lockpicking.
That would have been interesting.
You're going to have to, you know what, you're going to have to teach me that at our upcoming 2600 meeting, what's two weeks away?
You're going to have to show me a little bit now, because I didn't, I was not able to make any of that.
Yeah, well, yeah, the concept is easy.
Once you understand, pretty much, you get all the tumblers down, and you just keep, I'm not sure the, the, the normal, uh, the actual name of the tools.
You know, all I know is one is like a snake, and the other one is like an L shape.
That's all I know.
And basically, the snake one, you push down in the lock to push the tumblers down, and this L type shape tool is what you use to actually turn.
Turn it to unlock it.
Yeah, but you were, you were a total beginner going into this, right?
So you actually learned.
I mean, I, the first lock that I tried, I, I picked it in 10 seconds.
Wow.
It was that easy.
Wow, very cool.
Uh, the tools, basically, from what I gathered on my own, the tools are the most important.
If you have some good tools, very easy.
Wow.
As well as, of course, knowing the lock.
It helps.
Right, right, right.
Uh, they were even picking, uh, combination locks.
You know?
I'm like, Jesus Christ.
These guys.
Well, hey, that's their hobby.
That's their thing, man.
You know, I'm like, these guys are good.
Hmm.
But, uh, you know, I, yeah, I did pick a couple.
Um.
Yeah, that's good.
I would like to learn that, too, but, again, I was, I was looking, you know, getting ready
for my, uh, presentation and sleeping.
Yeah, I was trying to get something done there, but, uh.
Yeah, Saturday was a wash for me until I got up in time for, um, Wozniak's keynote, which
is at one o'clock in, in conference room A.
Right.
So, I got up there to see Woz.
Uh-huh.
And, uh, it was the same thing as, same thing as with the others.
I was kind of back at the booth, but I'd go out and wander, and I kind of caught most
of it, half of it, you know?
Right, yeah.
So, I was there for most of that.
And, actually, that's one of my big regrets was, I really, really wanted to go see, um,
a presentation in room B, John Erickson.
Oh, yeah.
Who we raved about how great his book, his book is, and I'm still reading, and I still
have it right here in front of me, Hacking the Art of Exploitation, right here in front
of me.
Um, he had an introduction to Disassembler, a presentation over in conference room B, but
it was right in, right in the middle of Steve Wozniak's presentation.
Right.
So, doggone it, that was just bad timing that I couldn't make it over there for that.
And, actually, I, I would have snuck out and left early to go to that, but I just lost
track of time listening to Woz.
Yeah, time goes quick when you're up in those rooms, man.
Yeah, if I would have looked down at my watch, I would have excused myself to go watch that,
and I just missed it, doggone it.
So, that's another one I can't wait to see.
Right.
Um, the video footage of that one.
So, I don't know if they, um, I don't know if we get copies of that as presenters or not.
I don't know if we have to buy those or what, but we'll see how they release that and how
much it costs.
I don't mind paying for that stuff.
Let's see.
Yeah.
Um, now, after the, let's see, after the keynote, I think I pretty much was done again because
my presentation was at five, so I think I went down to the room, and I know you were
down there with me for a little while.
Yeah.
Did you catch anything else between Waz and my presentation at five?
Um, no.
No, I think after Waz, I went to grab a bite, I think, from the Nathans downstairs, and then
I came, I think that's when I went back to the room, and you were there trying to, um,
you know, do the finishing touches on your presentation.
Right.
I believe that's for time.
Right.
And then you and I kind of sat down and just went over one last quick review, and you thought
I was going to speed talk through the whole presentation.
I was, yeah, well, yeah, I'm like, is he actually just rushing through this now, or is he, I hope
he's not going to talk like this throughout the whole presentation.
I was just visualizing, and I was just speaking real fast to make sure I had all my topics
in line.
So, yes, at five o'clock, I presented, and I was presenting opposite, over in conference
room A, um, a presentation called Hackers in the Law, which I wouldn't have mind seeing,
because they had representatives from the EFF there.
And I, you know, we, I've said very much how much I support them.
They're not just lawyers for hackers, as people have made that comment.
They're not that.
There's so much more than that.
And I really wanted to have seen that.
So that's, again, another one where, actually, I guess it's kind of a catch-22 for me.
I wanted people to come see my presentation, but at the same time, I knew there was another
good one going on over there, so that was a tough one.
I really wanted to see that one as well.
I joked on the forums about letting someone else give my presentation so I could go watch
that.
But, yes, I gave my presentation, and, um, again, I don't know.
I feel like it went okay.
Um, some people came up afterwards and said they enjoyed it, so I guess that's the bottom
line.
Some people liked it.
If some didn't, hey, whatever.
That's cool, too.
So it was a relief to get it.
It was a relief to be done with it.
And, and, because I got it all done in time, when I went out to present, I felt pretty
confident, even though you screwed up my slides.
Well, no.
No.
I tried to, but I didn't.
No, I don't know what happened, but somewhere there at the beginning, I had three slides
somehow got out of order.
So I had to kind of wing it.
I had to kind of improvise there for a little bit.
But what, but on the tabs at the bottom, were the numbers in sequence, or were they
like...
I don't, they weren't in sequence with the actual presentation itself.
But the number tabs were saying 1, 2, 3, 4, through whatever.
But the actual...
Yes, they were in sequence.
They were in sequence in open office.
But over on PowerPoint, see, I think it, what I think probably happened, my laptop has a
sensitive, um, uh, I don't even know what you call that little, uh, touch panel mouse
thing.
What do you call that little touch pad?
Oh.
It's very sensitive.
Well, yeah, touch pad.
Yeah, I'm...
Mouse, touch, touch mouse pad?
Whatever the thing is.
Oh, okay.
It's very sensitive, and I'm thinking maybe it got bumped and it drug a slide.
It dragged one out of order.
That's, I think it probably completely accident.
We didn't even know what happened.
So I think the ones on your laptop, the ones in, the open office ones that I gave you,
Yeah.
I think were in order, and I think somehow the PowerPoint at the last second there, when
we were setting it up on the projector, I think it must have accidentally drug one out
of order.
I don't know.
So either way, I think it didn't, it wasn't drastic or bad out of order.
It was just like two slide came, two slides earlier than it should have.
I don't know if anybody noticed.
Somebody emailed me, let me know, was it obvious that, I know I covered my microphone
and whispered to you, I'm like, uh-oh, something's out of order.
Let me, I gotta figure out how to replace this.
So, um, I don't know.
I was going back and forth, I'm like, well, this is, this is only two.
Yeah.
So anyway, once we were through that, then I could breathe a sigh of relief and start
enjoying the rest of the conference, um, well, a little bit.
Um, Slip Mode's presentation was coming up later that night, and I sat up on the panel
with him, but, um, that was a little easier because that was his presentation.
And he did a great job, by the way.
But before we jump ahead to that, did you catch anything else?
I think, actually, we took another break after mine and went and got something to eat, didn't
we?
Uh, yeah.
Well, actually, yeah, we went over and you were, you know, you still had about 50 people
around you asking questions.
Yeah.
But you kind of like, walked them over to the booth, to the vendor area.
Yeah, and I don't know if I should apologize.
They really rush you off the, they don't rush you off the stage, but they, you know, they
gently nudge you off the stage so the next person can come up.
You don't have a lot of time between presentations.
Right, right.
So if anybody thought that I was blowing them off or brushing them or anything, I apologize.
But I, my presentation, I practiced, and it was timed at exactly an hour.
I knew I wasn't going to take questions.
I wasn't going to have time.
Um, unless some reason I got done a couple minutes early, so I knew that wasn't going to
be the case.
So I timed it at an hour, and I had to hurry up and give the next person their allotted
time.
We didn't want to run over, like some other presenters did, on Sunday.
Um, so anyway, yeah.
We moved over to, um, the vendor area and kind of cleared out the room a little bit, met
a bunch of great people, and some of them, we read their emails last week, as a matter
of fact.
Um, so that was really cool.
And then, yes, another trip to White Castle.
Yeah, that's White Castle three times a day.
Oh, White Castle.
Food, that's good stuff, man.
Oh.
By the way, uh, this might be a little off topic, but.
That's all right.
Did you see, um, I don't know if you can get it up there, but I saw a commercial about some
movie coming about something about.
Yeah, they had ads for that movie.
The White Castle or something?
Yeah, they had ads for that movie in the White Castle.
You didn't see them?
Uh, not really.
Yeah, they had posters up in the White Castle.
It was like, I don't know, Harold and Kumar go to White Castle or something like that.
Something like that, okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, so yeah, I had a little White Castle, and as long as we're going off topic, maybe
we should tell the little White Castle story.
Well, actually, I was, uh, next door getting the, uh.
Oh, that's right, you missed it.
I wasn't in there.
Yeah, I forgot, you missed that.
That, oh, that was so funny.
Well, it was funny at the beginning.
We were in White Castle, and, um, yeah, I'm, alright, this is a tangent, I'm going
off on a little tangent, and let me, let me check our time here, because, uh, we got
about 10 or 15 minutes, and we still got to cover the rest of Saturday and Sunday, so
I'll make this a quick tangent.
Um, I, I haven't had White Castle in seven or eight years.
They don't have them down here in Florida.
So when I got, when I found out there was a White Castle three blocks, four blocks from
the hotel, I was eating a lot of White Castle that week.
So, we went to White Castle, and I think M2 Mike was with us, I think, I know Natus
was there, I think you and Not Theory went next door for pizza, right?
Right.
And, let's see, Cessna, Natus, M2 Mike, I think, and it might have been Sub-Zero, I think it
was Sub-Zero with us.
Right.
Anyway, um, Natus and I ordered first, and we were already done, and we went and sat down
to get a table while we were waiting on our food, and Natus, being the little troublemaker
he is, and me, being the troublemaker that I am sometimes, when we were, when we were in
line ordering, this person, this gentleman, well, this bum, okay, let's call it like it
is, this bum, came in with some, some hot watches he was trying to pawn.
Well, I assume they're hot, I don't know if they were or not, but he's trying to sell
some watches to the, to the couple in line behind us, and we just kind of ignored it,
we didn't want, so, we went and sat down and got a table, while the young lady behind the
counter yelled at the guy, said, hey, you can't come sell that in here, and the guy's
like, uh, the guy turned around and started to leave, and when he walked by, he kind of
looked at me, showed me the watch, you want them, and I said, how much? Well, I probably
shouldn't have done that, now looking in retrospect, I asked him how much, I don't care if they're
hot, I don't care, I'll, if it was a, a Rolex, or a Relox, or something, I don't care if it's
a fake Rolex, I'll, I don't care, take that back as a gift or something like that, so I
asked him how much, he wanted ten bucks for the watches, well, um, the lady yelled at
him again, said, hey, you can't sell that in here, and I'm like, oh, great, I got the guy
in trouble, right, I shouldn't have even said anything, well, the dude snapped at her
and started saying, I'm not selling anything, I was just talking to somebody, we just talking,
ain't nobody selling nothing, obviously, he was trying to sell the things, you know, and
I felt bad I stirred it up, but, that's no excuse for what he did, he started getting
very irate, and just basically going crazy, he was, he was a pretty shifty looking dude
anyway, he started snapping at the girl, going back and forth, and he was obviously, he was
loving the attention, everybody in the restaurant was staring at him, laughing at him and stuff,
and he was yelling at the girl, saying, you can't do this, you can't do that, the girl
was pushing the little panic button to get the cops, which I think basically takes 15
or 20 minutes, so, yeah, there's no, yeah, there's no panic going on, that panic button
isn't going to help you, but, uh, yeah, she was telling him he had to get out, and he was
snapping back at her, saying, you don't know what you're talking about, I'm not doing
this, you can't make me leave, blah, blah, blah, but, we were still laughing
because we were, you know, we thought it was funny, the crazy guy yelling at the, at
the White Castle people, you know, so he started, he would walk out, and then he'd come back
in, because he wanted, he loved that attention, you could tell, he wanted the attention, he
was raising a fuss, just making a scene, because he wanted to be, you know, wanted to be heard,
so he kept walking back and forth, and walking back and forth, and I know you had to be there,
this story's probably lost, and it's not as funny to everyone else, but he came back in
this last time, and he's, like, making up, yeah, it's like, he kept going back and forth
so many times, he obviously started making up stuff to yell at, that he didn't, he ran
out of stuff to yell at, so he, he turned back this one last time, and Addis and I were
sitting off to the side, and he came back one last time, and he goes, oh yeah, another
thing, he said, what about all those times I come in, I order chicken, and y'all won't
let me use your bathroom, your bathroom's all messed up, so it's like, hey, that was,
that was hilarious, because it's like, what does that have to do with you selling
water, what does that have to do with anything, he was just trying to look for something to
yell at for, you know, but Addis and I, being the troublemakers, we both almost in unison
were like, yeah, what about that, instigating and stirring him up even more, which he doubled
back again, like, yeah, your bathroom all messed up, and we were just laughing, because
we were instigating it, but then it wasn't funny anymore, because the next thing he said
was, oh, he said to the little girl, he said, you think something's funny, little girl,
you think something's funny, I'll come back in a few minutes, and I'll clear this whole
place out, and I'm like, you know what, I think it's time for us to go, we got our food,
and we got the hell out of Dodge, he was all talk, I'm sure he didn't do anything, but
it was like, okay, you crossed the line there, crazy guy, what about the first day, the first
day you went into White Castle, with the guy with the brown sweatsuit that's sweating
bullets, oh, he was a crackhead, dude, he was on crank, and he's walking around with
this garbage bag with God knows what in it, yeah, who knows what it was, he was hopped
up on something, it's a, it's like, it's, it was hot outside, it was like, it was, it
was warm, it wasn't hot, it was warm, you know, but this guy was sweating like he was
in the Sahara Desert, he's got this sweatsuit on, yeah, it was just, White Castle is the
place to be, that's all I'm saying, anyway, let's jump back on this before we run out
of time here, back to the presentations, I didn't make, from between my session, we went
and got food, by the time we got back, we were in time to talk to Slip Mode and prepare
for his Hacker Radio presentation, that was at 9 o'clock, I think, 9 o'clock in B, and
he gave a presentation on Hacker Radio, and how it's been coming up, and some of the future
of where it's going, some technical talk of how to, and stuff like that, and dual parallel
and myself were up on the panel with him, and spoke, we each spoke for a few minutes
about our respective shows, and Slip Mode did a great job on that, like I said, he and
I worked on it the night before, and I know he made a lot of additions to it, so that turned
out really, really good, so congratulations to him.
Um, and, after that, I think, that, we called it the night for that, I think that's when
we went out and did our urban exploration down the High Line, I think it was Saturday
night.
No, we actually,
Was it?
Well.
What did we do?
We went to a bar.
We went to our Grand Central, I think, that night.
Was that it?
Uh.
You may be right, yeah, I think you are right, actually, or was that Sunday?
No, that was Sunday, because it was after.
Saturday.
Yeah, I think Saturday we went to that little bar down, that old Irish pub, with a bunch
of the guys down there, or at least I did, I don't think you, I don't know if you made
that.
Uh, yeah, I got there, yeah, a little bit late, yeah, but I got there with a couple
things there.
Oh, yeah, you snuck up behind me.
Yeah, yeah, you know, you're trying to take a picture of the, uh.
Yeah.
But, uh.
So, yeah, unfortunately I didn't make any more of the presentations that night, Saturday.
I think the last presentation was, what, at 11 o'clock?
Um, yeah, I think, and they, I don't know, some of, some of them went, since they were
the last one, I think they had some leeway of how long they could go.
Right.
Now, on to Sunday, because we've only got five or six minutes left, and I don't want
to make a part three out of this, um, let's see, Sunday, um, I spent a lot of time at
the booth, um, I'm looking at the list now, I didn't make, let's see, Cheshire's Ranch
Session, I didn't make that.
The ASE.
Tactical Media.
Um, the Honey Pot's, like, I don't know, I wouldn't mind seeing that one.
Um, Jason Scott, I missed his, unfortunately, Preserving Digital History, A Quick and Dirty
Guide, but I've met Jason Scott, we've had him on RFA before, uh, spoken to him before,
he's a good guy, so, um, you know, I knew kind of a lot of what he was going to be talking
about.
I still wanted to see it, the actual presentation itself, but I missed that one, uh, that was
at 11 o'clock.
Um, let's see, retrocomputing, there was an urban exploration panel, I didn't, um, I didn't
catch that one.
Oh, you were there for Jell-O, though.
Yeah, you know what, actually, I did catch a little bit of the urban exploration, I was,
I remember them talking about asbestos, I remember them showing some, uh, talking about wearing,
uh, masks if you went to someplace you thought might be having asbestos and some stuff like
that.
Um, because I was curious, how do you present a panel on urban exploration, that's one of
those things you have to do and see, it's very visual, a hack TV kind of, it's a video
segment, like White Sword TV, you know, it's not something you can describe easily on a
panel, so that was a tough, a tough thing to present, but I, from what I saw, they seem
to have done a pretty good, um, um, and the SC, yes, Jell-O-Biofra, for God's sake, I could
not avoid that one, I was back there at the, at the, the vendor's booth, trying not to listen
to it, and the one that I didn't want to listen to, that was getting on my last nerve, that stupid
presentation from Jell-O-Biofra, I couldn't avoid that damn thing.
It was a little bit long-winded.
Yeah, and I think, from what I understand, I think he went well over us a lot of time, and
was very difficult, from what I've heard, in retrospect, gave the security guys a hard
time, had a lot of attitude with people in general, that's all hearsay, I heard that
second hand, I don't know, I didn't talk to the guy personally, all I'm knowing is this,
all I know is this presentation was annoying as hell, so, in my personal opinion, of course,
which may not count for anything to some people, to most people, um, and social engineering
panel, we were there for that, which was after Jell-O, and closing ceremonies was pretty
much the next one, closing ceremonies.
I missed, I thought, um, did I miss, um, I thought Acidus gave another presentation, I
thought he did, um, a presentation on, um, on Magstripe, on, uh, card reading, did I miss
that on the list somewhere, I'm not sure, anyway, I thought he had given a presentation,
or at least I heard he was, yeah, I think I remember hearing something like that, yeah,
and I wanted to see that, but, um, yeah, I missed that one as well, just, uh, so much
to do in so little time, so, definitely want to catch up on a lot of these, uh, the closing
ceremonies, that was just a, pardon my language, but that was just a cluster, well, I won't,
I'll, I'll control my language, I'll watch how adult I can be, that was just a mess.
They didn't have any organization, people had donated prizes, I thought it was very rude
for them not to have given credit to people for the prizes that they donated and stuff,
you could have said, this was donated by No Starch Press, this was donated by such and
such, but they didn't, it was just like, come on up here and grab something.
And, they didn't have any way of giving the prizes out properly, and they started rolling
dice for God's sake.
How tacky, what is this, a Dungeons and Dragons convention?
Come on, man, seriously.
And then they whipped up, I was like, come on, you want me to write you a little script
or a little program that'll give you a random number?
And that's what they ended up doing, somebody wrote a quick little program, I think, I don't
know how it was written or how well it was, because it seemed to be, the numbers seemed
to be all pretty close together, if you ask me, but hey, whatever.
It was on the 1200 count or something.
But yeah, we, I guess we're going to have to wrap this up pretty quickly, because we
got, yeah, four or five minutes.
All in all, don't get me wrong, I'm about to say something that really turned me off about
the whole thing, and I know you and I might not agree on this, but regardless of that,
it was a great convention.
I enjoyed meeting everybody, a lot of good talks, some bad talks, but for the most part,
I had a fantastic time, and I wouldn't change it for the world, it was a great time up there,
as well as, you know, the time we spent afterwards enjoying New York City.
However, and before I go into my however, did you want to add?
No.
Okay, however.
Okay, you guys can send me hate mail all you want for saying this, but dammit, I flew to
New York City to go to a hacking convention, I didn't go to a bush bashing convention, I
didn't go to a political convention, I didn't go up there to hear Jell-O by Offra bitch and
moan and complain about how terrible the government is, I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree
with it, I actually agree, I think the government does a lot of stupid things, but that's not
why I went, so it doesn't matter if I agree with this person, if I do like Bush or I don't
like Bush, I don't care, it's irrelevant of who you support or who you don't support,
what your party cause is or blah, blah, blah, I just don't see how it was appropriate or
any way related to hacking for them to have all this political content.
If it's privacy, yes, I can see that as being related, privacy, it can be digital rights
and things like that where it is somewhat related, that I can see, but Jell-O by Offra
spent two hours plus digging on the President and his administration, hey, that's fine, if
you agree with it, don't agree with it, that's all fine, I'm just saying go present that at
the Democratic National Convention, not at the HOPE Conference, so my whole comment is
not about what they said or whether I agree or disagree, that's irrelevant, my whole comment
is that's, to me, not what a hacking convention is about, so they did have a lot of technical
stuff and I did enjoy myself, but I did want to say that I've been holding that in for a
while now, I was thoroughly, thoroughly disappointed at a giant George Bush with a Hitler mustache,
I was very uncomfortable with this armband on, you know, and they give you armbands instead
of cards or anything to get you in and out of the convention, it was an armband, and here
I am up on this podium in front of a giant poster of Hitler, George Bush as Hitler, I don't
care, 1984, sure, I understand it's from the comic book, that's all fine and dandy, but
basically here I am in an armband in front of a giant Hitler-like poster with these banners
around and I wasn't comfortable, I presented off to the side, I did not present
from my main podium, because I didn't want to be on camera in front of such a scenario,
but at the same time I didn't want to stir up trouble or anything, so I just presented
from over on the side, so in case anybody was wondering why I did that, now you know,
I wasn't comfortable with that, so I just don't see where that has anything to do with
hacking, I went to talk and learn and hear and discuss technology, so, you know, again
that's something we've said about our magazine too, we try to make the magazine, Binary Revolution
magazine, and this radio show, we try to avoid technology, we'll touch on it, we'll try to
quickly move through it if we have to, but I'm all about the technology, man, that's what
I'm in hacking for, that's what I enjoy, and I just wish they would have stayed more with
that, I guess that's it, I wasn't, you know, if people disagree, they know they can contact
us letters at Bin, oh, excuse me, radio at BinRev.com, or letters at BinRev.com works
too, but that's more for feedback on the magazine, and I guess that's pretty much it, unless you
wanted to add or disagree, or...
Well, I don't know, I thought it was good, there were a couple of things that I had issue
itch, which I won't talk about, but, you know, it was just disgusting, but anyway.
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.
But, you know, the banners and all the arm bands and all that, it didn't tick me off as
much as it did you, I can get past that, you know, yes, I thought it was a little bit
too political, but I guess, at the same time, I guess they're trying to make a statement
because the Republican National Convention was, you know, there, people were there looking
around, and this kind of thing, I don't know.
Yeah.
Anyway, yes, we could have done without it, but for whatever reason, they decided to do
it, no big deal.
Yeah, and I dealt with it, I dealt with it.
But I really don't give a damn.
Yeah.
I went around it as much as I could and dealt with it, but I just, they had, plus they had
a couple different themes, they had Watch the Watchers, which I think that by itself
would have been a great overall theme.
Yes, I like that.
Be the Media, I think that also would have been a great overall theme, in and of itself,
by itself.
Right.
And then they had the whole 1984 Big Brothers watching, and that was the overall theme.
And yes, I know that it was supposed to be George Bush as Big Brother, not Hitler, not,
you know, it was a whole 1984 play on Big Brothers watching, I understand that.
I just think it crossed a little bit too much.
But yeah, the other two sub-themes, I think those would have stood alone very well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They were still good.
It was like, yeah, they had multiple themes going around, so I guess, you know, it was
pretty good.
Yeah.
Well, we're going to have to wrap it up, because we are full up on time, over our time.
We've turned in, it used to be a show that we were supposed to be an hour long.
Sometimes we'd go over a little bit.
But we have an extra half hour, just in case we go over.
We are regularly doing an hour and a half show now, every single week.
So, we are about at that hour and a half now.
So, we're going to wrap it up.
I got some shouts I wanted to give to El Diablo, representing DC305, I mentioned earlier.
New Hack City, Hack City 305.
So, shouts to him.
To Josh.
Josh, if you're listening, yes, you're right.
I do check my referrals.
So, thanks for the linkage.
I did see that.
So, shouts out to him.
Also, we didn't do this last week.
The guy that helped pimp your magazine all weekend at No Starch Press.
Oh, yeah.
You know, I...
I don't remember his name, but he was, like, pimping the magazine more than he was pimping his books and stuff, you know?
Yeah, very, very cool guy.
And actually, we'll bring that up on a later show, too.
Especially if I can get John Erickson on the show, possibly.
We'll bring up that and some other things.
Because, yes, he was very nice, and I spoke with him on some other issues.
Some other ideas of working with him on some things.
So, yeah, definitely very cool.
Um, and, uh, again, radio at binrev.com if you want to email us.
Uh, article submissions for 2.2 of the magazine.
Articles at binrev.com.
And tonight's closing music is a new track from Brad Sucks.
Somebody we play quite a bit on here.
I really like his music.
And this track is called Certain Death.
So, ZeroDB, thank you very much for being on the show yet again.
Thank you for going to the conference with me.
I had a good time.
It was good.
I'm glad it was you and I.
I'm glad you and I went.
And Cy Pete also.
I'm glad that we went because you and I get along real well.
And we both kind of did our thing.
But at the same time, we hung out.
I think it worked out very good.
So, I had a great time.
Even though I kind of said I didn't like the political, don't let that fool you.
I had a blast at the conference and at New York City.
So, don't mistake that.
So, everyone listening, we're going to wrap it up.
We'll see you guys next week.
Same hack time.
Same hack channel.
Peace out.
Okay, I see you're feeling all alone
I heard it on the radio
We can hear a broadcast from the sky
And someday I'm gonna rock and roll
And I'm gonna want to know
What's going to be outside
Keep me up with your emotions
And I, they can't shoot me down
Over the ocean
It's time to surrender
And I'm gonna go hard to get
Maybe by the time we meet
You ain't about to change in me
And it's certain death
I'm gonna have no chance to get
Maybe by the time we meet
You ain't about to change in me
Yeah, I can count the times that it closed my mind
Sick in bed and dying
For something I'll have
And we'll never have
Your best friend won't be your friends anymore
Won't pretend anymore
To let you down
Try
Keep me up with your emotions
At night
We can
Shoot me down
Over the ocean
And inside
At night
Fuck
Pray
When
Or
You ain't about to stairs
In theaks
I'm gonna have
Put me up with my emotions
And now
Kids
We can
Be
You ain't about to change in me
cooked
And 내일
We can
You ain't about to change
But
You ain't about to change in me
Yeah, you ain't about to change in me
Consciousness
I need you
For something I need
For something that
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I mean
evangelical
And
To
I
Don't
Bar
It
East
Music
To
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whit
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Interesting
Keep me up with your emotions
At night, when you can't
Shoot me down over the ocean
It's time to end
Now that the heart's in the air
When you fall asleep
You're the way you've got to change in me
There's certain death
I don't have the chance to get
Really by the time we meet
You recognize the change in me
Yeah
The heart's in the air