This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you
in a fag pose.
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six foe.
I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcasts. You need some ISOs? Let me through my hard drive rifle.
Our exchange you could never stifle. And a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.
Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.
You feel that rattle in your bones when I tell you we just hacked out Jones?
And NASDAQ, leave your plot on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals.
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAMs, SIPs, SIPs.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.
Awesome!
This radio show is awesome!
What the hell?
I don't know how to open the show anymore.
I'm getting...
Welcome to Sand Demon!
Rock on! We are Wild Stallions!
Dude, we're getting... we're scraping the bottom of the barrel for funny openings.
Yeah, it's pretty terrible.
But you know what? I'm gonna leave that in because I'm too lazy to start over.
And in case you guys haven't recognized, maybe you were Mieber, today's co-host, for being on the show so many times in the past.
But it's none other than Not Theory himself.
Yeah, what's the problem?
And you are listening to episode 57 of Binary Revolution Radio.
Joining Not Theory today will be myself, Stank Dog.
And today, we're gonna talk about databases.
Specifically relational databases, but we'll talk about the differences between some different types of databases.
And some... go into a little bit of detail about some relational databases.
But, before we do, let's take care of a little housekeeping.
First thing, I am happy to announce, we have an update on the status of the magazines.
I have them in my hands.
Well, not in my hands right now, but they're over in a box on the other side of the room.
I have all three issues printed.
Very nice quality. Looked very good.
I have them in large quantities, so shouldn't be running out anytime soon.
So, all orders will have been shipped by the time you hear this.
So, give it a couple weeks.
Give it a week or two, a week and a half.
Usually takes about 10 days to get there, up to 10 days to get there.
So, they'll probably be shipped out.
Probably be postmarked Tuesday, actually.
And everybody who's put in orders and been waiting, thank you for being patient.
You should have them very soon.
And if not, we'll figure out what happened.
But I'm pretty sure I have a list of everybody who's still waiting on orders.
So, it should not be any problems like that.
And that also means that issue 2.1 is available.
And I will put that link up to order that on the website very soon.
And I also put up a little three-pack where people who are new to BinRev
and don't have any of the issues can buy all three of them at the same time.
So, we'll have all that up on the website hopefully Tuesday.
But if not, it will be up by the end of the week for sure.
No doubt about it.
Okay, possibly a little bit of doubt about it.
But I'm going to try my best.
Everyone's been waiting for this damn thing forever.
And it makes me sick, actually.
And I don't think I want to do the show anymore.
Are you so insulted that you're going to hang up now?
Because you could do the show naked.
Who says I'm not?
Oh, man.
We got owned last week.
And when I say we, I mean me.
We had an email from El Taco Frio.
We mentioned a link to someone who allegedly turned a Mini Cooper into a little transformer,
not a little, a transformer robot thing.
And Pixel Fiend emailed and pointed out that that was a hoax, unfortunately.
Cool looking pictures.
And I didn't look into it too much.
But apparently it was done by some advertising agency for the Mini Cooper people or whatever.
So, that kind of sucks.
But, it was still kind of a cool looking robot.
So, still a cool link to share with the listeners, even though we are noobs.
And once again, when I say we, I mean not theory.
Oh, I need to call myself a stifu.
Stifu.
Pajir.
Oh, my God.
Okay, that needs to stop right now.
Oh, you went there.
I just followed.
Oh, and speaking of Pixel Fiend, let's see.
Let me play our email theme music here real quickly.
I've got to start putting that in the show more often.
And, we're going to go to our first email.
And, that again is from Pixel Fiend.
After showing us how I got owned by falling for a hoax without doing my homework.
Something that I hate other people doing.
But, I did myself.
I admit it.
Shut up.
Pixel Fiend says,
One thing that I wanted to mention is your subject from episode 53, I think.
The ethical hacker.
Maybe I misunderstood.
But, I have a different understanding of what an ethical hacker is supposed to be.
I thought that an ethical hacker was basically equivalent to a penetration.
Tester.
My idea of a dream job.
That would be the life.
To be paid for finding security holes and exploring a company's network.
Assessing strengths and weaknesses without worry of retribution.
Unfortunately, the term ethical hacker plays to the derogatory.
Insinuating that hackers are inherently unethical.
So, yeah, the term is distasteful.
The certification follows this mindset.
And, whether or not the classwork or tests have merit,
Businesses see the sexy title.
Ethical hacker has more pizzazz than penetration tester.
And, plays to the current hacker hype.
Of course, the cash that they charge for the courses and tests is outrageous.
You hit that right on the head.
I don't think, however, that the idea behind the cert is to have a bunch of business owners take a class to tighten their network security
and earn the right to call themselves ethical hackers.
Whether that has happened or not.
I know a couple of people from the security focus forums and lists who have the cert.
And, they're quite knowledgeable penetration testers.
Although, I do have a feeling that their hat changes from white to a muddy gray or darker every once in a while.
Did they sell out?
I don't know.
But, I expect that they have a lot more fun at work than me.
And, are making boatloads of cash.
A belated congrats on the one year anniversary.
Your show is helping to balance out a lot of the negative politics that are around now.
And, from what I see, it's contagious.
Judging from the several spin-off shows that have come about in the past few months.
Well, thank you for recognizing the anniversary.
We've done a year and we're well into year two.
So, that's cool.
As far as the ethical hacker.
Now, I actually think he made a very good point that the term ethical hacker insinuates that hackers are inherently unethical.
And, I actually did.
I had not thought of that.
I thought that was a good point.
Does that...
I mean, did that strike you as, um...
It didn't strike me.
But, I mean, it doesn't make a very good point.
But, on the other hand, if it didn't strike me and it didn't strike you, who else is looking at it like that?
I mean, some people, sure.
But, hopefully not the bulk of people.
Hopefully, the bulk of people are dumb like me.
I never thought of it.
But, seriously, because, um...
I really hadn't, but I worry that he may have a true point that, like, does that how the general populace thinks?
Yeah, it could be.
I guess somebody maybe with no contact to the scene might make that connection very quickly.
Hmm.
Or, it wouldn't even cross my mind.
Yeah, I mean, hackers equals bad guys.
Is that not the common perception?
Yeah, yeah.
So, I think he makes a very, very good point.
Hmm.
Well, um...
I guess it's perfect timing to pimp Binary Revolution magazine issue 2.1,
because I wrote an introduction for 2.1 that kind of clarifies at least my personal views on the different types of hackers
and what's ethical and what's not ethical and how they're labeled.
Um, but I do not believe that, you know, I think you said, let me see your exact wording earlier there,
you thought that an ethical hacker was basically equivalent to a penetration tester.
Now, a penetration tester can very well be an ethical hacker.
That could be a subset of ethical hackers, but I'm not a penetration tester.
You know, it's not my job.
I'm not a certified ethical hacker.
I don't do penetration testing for a living.
But I still like to think of myself as ethical, so I don't think they're mutually exclusive terms.
You certainly can be an ethical hacker, I guess, or certainly can be a penetration tester and be an ethical hacker.
That's one type, but aren't there others out there?
Can you be, you know, another type?
Can you just be an ethical hacker in general?
Um, I guess.
Isn't that the distinction of white hat, black hat, gray hat?
Well, and again, those are up for debate, too,
and I mentioned that in my article, in my introduction to the magazine,
is, you know, one person's definition of those is different than another.
Oh, yeah.
I can't stand the common, you know, I see it on a lot of websites
where they say that white hat hackers are computer security professionals.
I think that's bullshit.
Oh, there's going to be a lot of cussing coming up soon,
so I might as well just warn everybody up front.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I think that's a load.
To be a white hat hacker, you have to be a computer security professional.
That's what a white hat, that's what they try to define white hat hackers as,
and I think that's just ludicrous.
I don't, I think that that's just a generalization that they make
so that people understand, like, what white hat means.
Like, somebody who's a certified, not certified,
a computer security professional,
they do a certain set of things, and they do it, like, you know,
for a good cause, and I think it's easier to explain that
than just to say computer security professional,
have people have that idea pop in their head
than explain white hat hacker all the way out.
So, I just think it's a generalization.
Yeah, that's probably true for the layman, or layperson,
to be politically correct, the layperson,
but bottom line is I think you can be an ethical hacker
without being a computer security professional.
If anything, I've met and know several computer security professionals
who do the most evil things you've ever imagined.
So, if anything, they're the opposite of white hat.
They have no ethics, selling out mailing lists of the users to make money
and violating privacy of their users and stuff like that.
What ethics are they following?
What makes them white hat?
What ethics are they following?
It's certainly not the hacker ethic.
And I think that's another point here that needs to be made is
when you say ethical, you've got to define which ethics you're talking about
because hackers do have a code of ethics.
The hacker ethic has been well known for quite some time,
and it has several conflicts with ethics of the general populace, I guess,
is the best way to describe it.
So, just because I might not meet with the ethics of one particular town or city
or even country doesn't mean I don't have my own set of ethics.
I just don't agree with yours.
Well, then you must be wrong.
Well, yeah, I frequently am.
So, as far as the certification itself, I mean, what we said on the show,
to kind of recap or summarize, I don't know if it was 53 or not,
but it sounds all right, I guess, somewhere around there.
We were talking about a company that is giving out, excuse me,
they have a training series where at the end of it you get a certificate,
a certification that you are a certified ethical hacker.
And I think my, you know, when I summarized the whole thing,
I said, basically, people educating themselves and learning how to do this is great.
I just question the validity of the certification itself.
Who is the person who's going to justify, or who is it to judge what is certified and ethical?
And hacking, for that matter, all three words.
Right.
You know, they have different qualifications for ethical, like I just said.
Everybody has different qualifications for ethics.
So, that was my big question.
But, just to throw out a little bit of a teaser,
and that's all this is, is a teaser,
is I am going to be doing some very, very detailed research on this in the near future.
And you can read into that what you will.
So, again, thanks for shouts for the anniversary,
and we're going to try to make year two better.
We're, how many episodes into year two now?
This is 57, so we're five into year two.
So, I think, I don't know about you,
but I think it's probably time for a rant, don't you?
Yeah, man, go for it.
Is it time for me to really just break down and start cussing?
Because that's what's going to happen.
Because I got an email from Psycho Mind Lent sent me an email.
And he says,
Hey, Stank Dog, thought you should know about this if you didn't already.
Check out the following links for more info on the Induce Act.
And he sends several links.
And the one that I'm going to read on the air,
just go to savetheth.org.
That's the cleanest and most straightforward explanation.
And you will find links from that to other sites that go into more detail
and more specifics on it.
The EFF has a great case up there.
And I think you liked the EFFs.
You thought that was a good demonstration of the danger of this?
Well, yeah, kind of.
I can see, when I originally went to savetheth.org,
they made a lot of assertions that say,
Oh, this act will do this, this act will do that.
But the EFF did a good job of going through,
taking the wording directly from the act
and explaining how they could apply it to a complaint against Apple.
And specifically the iPod.
And I thought that the EFF did an awesome job
of explaining how this could be abused in the legal system.
Yeah, and I think that's kind of a smart move, honestly,
using the iPod as an example
because it gets those millions of iPod users on the cause
and brings it to the public attention.
And it's not just a little, you know,
Oh, it's just a few hackers complaining about another privacy act
like we've done about the Patriot Act.
Luckily, when we get more people involved,
and people outside of the hacking community
and the, well, the privacy community,
people are starting to respect and understand privacy more.
So the more publicity they get
and the more people they get involved,
the better it is to stop stuff like this.
Well, I don't know, man.
I saw the Save the iPod thing
and I knew right away, whatever it was,
I was against it
because I personally hate the iPod.
And I hate Apple.
So hopefully this complaint with Apple will go through
if this act gets passed
and Apple will just be out of business.
Well, maybe we can come up with another way
to topple Apple.
See, I don't have a problem with Apple.
I agree with you.
I know what your problem,
I know what your beef with Apple is,
and I agree with it 100%.
But I like the hardware.
I don't like the fact that it's closed,
which is your beef.
Well, why don't you explain
what you don't like about Apple?
This is your rant.
You can have your rant on Apple.
My rant.
And I don't need to really make it that long.
I'm pretty sure I did this rant once before,
maybe if not on this show or another.
Well, it hurts to do it.
It never hurts to do it again.
Exactly.
I look at Apple as the Microsoft
of the hardware industry.
Like, Microsoft has the software industry locked down.
Apple has their own little niche market
where people will pay pretty much
whatever Apple says for their hardware.
Now, I know.
People have benchmarks,
and they say,
oh, my G5 runs DNet-C like 10 times faster
than your machine does.
And it does.
Great.
I don't deny that at all.
That's great.
Running DNet-C fast is really cool.
But on the other hand,
does it do what I want it to do?
Like, work that's useful to me?
Does it do it that much faster
and that much faster to warrant that price increase?
Probably not.
Would be my guess.
Like, does it...
My real beef with them would be,
does it run Postgres faster?
Because if it doesn't,
I really don't care.
You know, does it run Apache that much faster?
If it doesn't, I don't care.
Running DNet-C is, you know,
it does something good for somebody else.
It helps distribute it.net,
but I'm basically buying a processor
so I can do somebody else's work.
That doesn't do it for me.
So somebody can show me real stats on that.
Well, you're using one example of DNet
just because we have that project going on
and we've seen that the Apples do great on that.
But, I mean, it's a known,
you know, it's a commonly accepted fact
that Macintosh is the primary machine
used in most graphics shops.
Yeah, well, here we go.
It excels at that.
I don't do any graphics, though.
Well, for you personally, right, but...
That's what I'm saying.
If it ran Postgres faster,
and this is, I think, the second,
this is what I agree with more about your point,
is let's say it did run Postgres faster.
Does it still justify the cost hike?
If it ran Postgres 10 times faster,
like it runs DNet-C 10 times faster,
and it costs three times as much,
it's worth every penny.
If, if and only if,
let's be very strict here,
if, and only if,
I can repair the machine cost-effectively,
I can upgrade it cost-effectively,
and, like, operating system-wise,
it's easy to maintain.
Now, I know OSX is based on BSD.
I used to be a BSD nut.
I was a BSD zealot.
And then I switched to Linux,
and I haven't used BSD.
Now, the BSD is bad.
I just don't use it anymore.
From what I've seen, like,
Linux is easier for me to manage.
Can I run Linux on it?
It's a big question for me.
If I can't,
that's a huge slam to the thing for me.
I don't want to learn BSD
just to get this thing up and running.
So.
Well, I,
I can't speak,
I, it seems like I've seen
some of the Mac guys talking about,
is it Yellow Dog Linux
is the Mac,
Linux for the Mac hardware?
Yeah, yeah.
I've heard of Linux variants
that work on it,
but everybody I know,
they always say,
oh, just, just run OSX,
just run OSX.
Right.
Um, I don't,
and that makes me feel like
maybe their Linux project
really isn't all that well supported,
and that's not,
that's not something
I want to deal with.
But, again,
if it really did run Postgres
10 times faster
and I just needed a database server
and I had to deal with BSD
for, like,
a business project,
you know what?
Shit, I'd go for it.
I have no problem with that.
Yeah, but, again,
you said the point being,
the sticking point of
if you could repair it easily,
cheaply,
buy parts for it,
et cetera,
and the fact is you can't.
You have to buy them
from Apple.
Yeah.
And you have to pay...
You could put,
you could slap any hard drive
in there and stuff like that.
That's cool.
But RAM,
I don't know,
I don't know what type of RAM it takes.
And maybe it does take regular RAM.
I'm not going to say that it doesn't.
But, I don't know.
They, the whole thing just scares me.
Like, Apple just,
they used to let people make clones
and then they stopped.
Yeah, that's the thing that got me.
If they started letting Dell
and other companies,
maybe not Dell,
but they started letting other companies
make the hardware as well
so there was some price competition.
Yeah.
I think that would be cool.
Yeah, but,
the people,
the argument that people give me
about that is they say,
oh, well, you know,
having this one supplier
makes the platform
that much more stable.
And everyone always tells me
Macs are so stable,
but I have a friend
who went to art school
and he told me
that Macs would crash
all the time.
Every day,
multiple times a day.
You know,
he said it was much worse
than Windows.
He would do his work
on a Mac at school
because he had to
and then when he went home
he would do it on Windows
because he couldn't deal
with the Mac crashing
all the time.
Well,
again,
that's a specific case
and that could be
poor management
of the systems
or whatever.
Could be.
Well,
I don't know,
but yes,
I think your point's
well-founded.
I agree with you
on the hardware issue,
but I still also admit
that they make good products.
Yeah,
they make neat stuff
and people say
the iPod's great,
but you know what?
The iPod is way more expensive
than every other
MP3 player out there.
So.
But you get iTunes.
Yeah,
iTunes for Windows
I've heard is a real disaster.
Really?
Changed?
Yeah.
Hmm.
I heard for macOS
it's great,
but I heard for Windows
it installs all kinds
of weird crap
and it's just a mess.
Maybe it's been fixed.
Please tell me
it doesn't install Gator.
No,
no,
I'm sure,
well,
I can't say I'm sure,
but I would hope Apple's
not that stupid.
I don't know.
iPod's just overpriced.
That's what I think.
And I think it's just like
the rest of the hardware.
It's overpriced,
but they've got this cult following
so they can get whatever they want.
People say,
oh,
it's designed so nicely.
You know what?
I need an MP3 player
to play music
and that's it.
I don't really care how it looks.
Well,
I can do that with my phone.
There you go.
I don't need an iPod
to play MP3.
There you go.
And it's not a cult following.
What are there,
three million or something
units sold
or something like that?
That's a lot.
I suppose.
I mean,
compared to the rest
of the market though,
I think it's a cult following.
How much market share
does Apple have?
I have no idea.
I mean,
I couldn't even tell you
another competing MP3 player.
Rio?
Do they still make the Rio?
Oh,
okay.
I thought you were talking about
just Apple in general.
Oh,
no,
no.
I'm talking about
just the iPod,
just the portable MP3 player market.
yeah,
there's the Arcos.
The Arcos makes a whole bunch
of MP3 players
and video players
and stuff like that.
There's another company
that I can't remember
the name of.
I think it's Neo something.
They have an MP3 player
that has open source firmware
so people have added
like Ogg support
and stuff to it.
I think that is
the coolest thing ever.
And it's significantly cheaper
than the iPod
from what I remember.
Hmm.
Well,
you know what?
I'm going to look into that
just for the simple fact
of putting those links up
in the show notes
when the time comes
so people can compare them
and see.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Damn,
this,
Apple ate up a whole bunch
of time.
See,
that's the other thing
I hate about Apple.
We always get on rants
about Apple
and they waste all our time
on the show
and then we never get
to talk about cool stuff.
Oh,
we're going to talk
about cool stuff.
Does it matter?
All right,
fair enough.
Yeah,
yeah,
we've got plenty of time.
We've got plenty of time
to talk about cool stuff
and we don't get into rants
about Apple all the time.
Yeah.
There's some things
I don't like about it,
like I said,
but I think,
I like Apple's hardware.
I think they make good hardware.
I just wish they weren't
the only ones that made it.
That's all.
That's my only beef with them.
Oh,
but anyway,
this email again,
we did get off that
and this is very important
and that is the Induce Act
that it's called.
Now,
again,
the reason we got on the Apple tangents
is because I hope they do bring
those Apple fanatics over
to help fight the cause.
That's more people
to help stop this stupid Induce Act.
And I've got to say,
about Apple people,
they are fanatical about Apple.
Oh, yeah.
When they hear about this
and when this gets big,
they're going to have
a lot of support.
Yeah.
If nothing else,
Apple's built tons of support
for their hardware,
software,
and their company in general.
Yeah,
I think I can count on
two definite emails
from two specific people
that I have in mind
and they know who they are
that are going to correct us
on some of the stuff we said.
I can guarantee it.
Probably more than that,
actually.
But anyway,
this was,
and again,
this email from
Psycho Mind Lent,
thought you should know
about the Induce Act.
I'm beyond words
on how fucking ignorant this is.
By the way,
keep up the great work
on the show.
It's highly informative.
I've learned a lot
from listening to it.
Okay.
Thank you for that.
But the Induce Act,
let's talk about this
for a minute
because this really
pisses me off
real,
real bad.
Go for it.
Yeah.
If you have a heart condition
or are pregnant
or are nursing a child,
you probably want to
step away from the radio.
See,
the problem with it,
again,
you know what,
I'm also going to
clarify something else here.
If we get right down to it,
the fact and the truth
of the matter is,
and yes,
people can debate this,
but my opinion on this is,
it's well-founded.
They want to stop
out-and-out piracy,
or at least so they claim.
Now,
I don't think that's true,
but I'm not in any way
condoning or insinuating
that,
you know,
mass pirating
and selling,
you know,
bootleg and all that
kind of stuff,
that's absolutely morally
wrong in my eyes.
Now,
I'm not talking about
personal downloads
and stuff like that.
My feelings on that
I've made clear.
I've bought a lot of albums
and gone to a lot of movies
and stuff
after checking them out first,
try before you buy a thing.
But out-and-out piracy
is absolutely wrong.
And if the intent on this,
which,
in a perfect world
would be
passing this act
to try to give them
protection
from out-and-out
hardcore piracy.
Like,
when I was at Hope
in New York,
I don't know how many people
I saw on the street
selling me bootlegs DVDs
of movies that were
in the theater.
Yeah.
You know?
So,
they're out there
and that kind of stuff,
even though I might have
bought one,
I don't condone.
Actually,
I did not.
I honestly didn't.
But,
I was tempted.
That is what this is
trying to protect.
And I
agree with the
heart of what
they're trying to do
with this,
but they're trying to
make it so overly
liberal and so broad
that it's going to
restrict everything.
And of course,
that is what the
MPAA
and the RIAA
and all the other
AA's,
AAA,
every other fucking
AAA out there
is trying to do
with this.
They want to stop
all sharing.
They've been trying it.
And that's what just
really pisses me off
about this whole thing
is they won't
fucking give up.
Guess what?
It's over.
It was over
when Napster blew up.
You had already
lost this fight.
You will never
come back
and win.
It's the 12th round.
You're coming out
the corner swinging,
trying.
I give you credit
for that,
but you've already
lost.
You're down on the
judge's scorecard.
You haven't won a
single fucking round
of this match.
Fucking sickens me
that they're still
trying to fight
so they don't want
to lose control.
And that's what
the Induce Act,
that's the problem.
It reminds me of
the Patriot Act.
It's so restrictive
that it doesn't want
to allow people to do
what things that they
should be able to do
with their,
they should have the
freedom to use,
fair use.
And they're trying
to get rid of fair use
like they've always
been trying to get rid
of it.
They're absolutely
locking this down
and it's because
they think with all
that money they have,
they go in and they
pay off the lobbyists,
they send their
lobbyists in there
to pay off the,
our elected officials,
which should disgust
us all.
And on one of these
sites I think it
showed how much
money goes to a lot
of these people.
And it's bipartisan,
it goes across the
board, so it's not
a Democrat or
Republican thing.
They're all taking
money under the table.
So the problem
with this is trying
to fight everything
through legislation
does nothing but
stifle creativity
and stifle innovation
in this country.
And I don't
understand, to me
I'm a logical guy.
I mean, stop me,
correct me if any
point in here I say
something that is
illogical or something
that you, that I,
that I'm just off
about, okay?
You stop me anytime
and tell me.
I'll do that.
Okay, here's the
thing.
It was like, what,
then, I, we'll say
the 80s, somewhere
around the 70s, 80s,
I don't know, when
VCRs first came out.
And they tried this
shit back then.
They didn't want to
lose control the same
way they're trying not
to lose control now.
Again, it's lost, it's
over.
They already lost this
battle, they're still
fighting.
But again, they didn't
want to lose control.
But look what
happened!
This is factual
information, you
fuckers.
God, I can't
understand this.
Because, thankfully,
they lost those
cases and the VCR
was allowed to be
created and people
were allowed to copy
and record movies.
What came out of
that?
A multi-billion
dollar fucking
industry came out
of that.
The United States
prospered, electronics
manufacturers prospered,
the movie industry
prospered as much as
they don't want to
admit it.
VCR movies started
selling through the
roof.
They made multi-billions
of dollars on selling
VCR movies.
You know what we
didn't have before the
VCR?
Blockbuster.
We didn't have video
rental stores of any
kind.
Now you have multi-bazillion
dollar industries.
You have a
Blockbuster, a Fortune
100 company?
Fortune 500?
I don't know what
they are.
This multi-billion
dollar company based
on this.
Based on innovation,
technology,
creativity, all these
things that sprung up
around it.
These are facts!
This is what happens
when you progress with
ideas and move into
the future.
I agree.
It happened again with
DVDs.
DVD players took off.
You can buy DVD
movies and it's a
multi-billion dollar
industry.
They're selling the
hardware.
They're selling the
media.
They're selling DVD
burners.
They're selling DVD
ROM drives.
They're selling
everything.
Multi-bazillions of
dollars.
What?
Please, please, dear
God in heaven, tell me
what am I missing?
Tell me why they would
not want...
Why?
I can't even...
I think there's steam
coming out of my ears.
I can't understand this
for the life of me.
What in the hell are
they thinking about?
I'm not really sure.
And maybe...
Hopefully this doesn't
hit you with too
rectum of a point.
I know that in Canada,
at least, there's a tax
on CD recorders and CDR
media and all this stuff
like that so that the
recording industry is not
a tax.
It's some type of...
I don't know.
They have a term for it
so that it's not taxed.
A levy.
Yeah, something like that.
Yeah, it's a levy.
We talked about it on the
show before.
Gluco from Canada
notified us about that.
I remember that.
Right, okay.
And then, you know,
the recording industry
up there gets money
off every CD recordable
disc that's sold in Canada.
Maybe they're...
You know, I thought
for a little while
that they had that
in the U.S. already,
but if they don't have it,
maybe that's something
that they're looking for.
They want a piece of
any piece of technology
that's allowed to record
or...
Well, see, no, I disagree.
I don't think they want
a piece.
I think they want it all.
They want it all.
What they want...
The reason they're
fighting this
is all those things
I just mentioned,
a multi-billion dollar
Fortune 100 company
of Blockbuster.
They don't think
Blockbuster should have that.
They want that
multi-billion dollar.
They don't want to
give that control
and let somebody else
make money.
They want it all
for themselves
to pad their pockets.
Well, shit,
if that's the case,
then they can start
another chain
of these fucking
rental places
and knock Blockbuster out.
What's the problem with that?
They don't have
the ability to do it.
They'd rather sue.
They would rather go
through the legislation
process.
They would rather sue
everybody to try
to maintain that
control back
instead of innovating.
And that's my whole problem.
It stops innovation.
And you know what?
It's going to end up...
And this is why
right now there's a
phenomenon going on
of outsourcing
to offshore places.
This country,
the United States of America,
is losing business.
We're losing jobs.
And don't turn it
into a bunch
of political bullshit.
The bottom line
is it's these kind
of companies
and these frivolous lawsuits
and these frivolous,
these stupid laws
that we pass.
Again, bipartisan.
It's not a particular...
Everybody fucking
getting paid
under the table
that's ruining
this country.
And then we outsource jobs
and we have people
manufacturing all
of our hardware
in Hong Kong
and China
and Mexico
and South America.
Well, that's great
for them
and I'm all
for the global economy.
But understand
why it's become this.
Don't bitch and say,
oh, so-and-so
outsourced my job.
Well, guess what?
You let stuff like this
happen as a voting citizen.
You stay uneducated
and you don't realize
that this stuff goes on.
I'm sorry.
I don't feel real sorry
for you.
Educate yourself
and watch this shit
go on and fight it
so that it doesn't happen.
Let this country innovate.
Let this country progress.
Let this country move forward,
not backward.
Don't tie everything up
and the legal system.
I agree.
The legal system
is definitely overused
for profit
in these huge companies.
But, you know.
Our legal system...
They control the legal system.
So what are you going to do?
Well, and that's a damn shame.
The legal system
has stunted
the growth of this country.
And that's an absolute
factual statement.
You can quote that.
Our legal system,
the United States legal system,
the judicial system,
has stunted the growth
of the United States of America
with the government's help.
Well, you know what's amazing
to me, though?
Like you said,
on that webpage
they have lists
of people that take money
from the recording industry
and Hollywood
and all this other kind of crap.
Right.
Obviously, people know
that this money
is going into
these people's pockets.
And I don't want to
start anti-Democrat
or anti-Republican,
whatever.
The only person's name
that I remember
on that list
is Hillary Clinton.
Because she was
at the very, very top.
And she had like
$1.16 million from them.
A lot of fucking money.
How does this happen?
And, you know,
what makes it legal?
I can't for the life of me
figure that out.
I mean,
if that's not a conflict
of interest,
I don't know what is.
Yeah.
Just the whole concept
of lobbying
and giving money
to these people
is a complete conflict
of interest.
And it's not something
that should be allowed
in government.
Yeah.
But somehow,
obviously,
somehow the law is written.
Either the law is written
in such a way
where they're allowed
to do it
or they just never
get prosecuted
for any of this crap.
Yeah.
I wish people,
I wish that we weren't
allowed to have
any kind of multiple terms.
I think there should be
no incumbents.
Because the longer
they stay in there,
the longer time
they have to get corrupt.
Oh, yeah.
Definitely.
Anyway,
I,
the,
if,
okay,
here's what,
here's Stank Dog's
ideal world.
Here's how it should happen.
Here's what should happen
out of this whole thing.
What should happen
is the RAAA
needs to shut
the fuck up.
Stop suing everybody.
Put your hands
on your desk.
Count to ten
and say,
we lost.
We are not
ever going to be able
to sue everybody
and catch up
with the,
the pace
and the growth
of the internet
and technology
in general.
just put your hands
down and say,
you know what?
We give up.
We lost.
Let's figure out
a nice,
fair,
balanced way
to make this work.
Let's come up
with something
that's fair
to all parties.
But they're not
willing to do that
for reasons I said
earlier.
They want full control.
They're not going
to compromise
anything
at all.
They knew about this
a long time ago.
Again,
it was Napster.
And then everything
that came after Napster,
of course,
the floodgates were open
then.
You could stop Napster,
fine.
You can try to stop Napster.
You never stopped
peer-to-peer
because every time,
every one you sue,
there's another one
popping up
and then encrypted ones
and,
you know,
it's just,
you're not going
to stop it.
It's too late.
So,
while they were busy
suing the hell out
of everybody,
as much as we just
bashed Apple a little
bit ago,
somebody came up
and realized that
iTunes is a fair way.
Some would debate that,
but at least it's a
compromise of some sort.
There's been several
things like iTunes,
several other places
where you can
download music
and pay per song
or pay a reasonable
price for it.
Right.
Or pay a monthly price
and download a few
at a time.
Now,
if you want to debate
those individually,
that's fine.
I know a lot of people
don't think that you
should pay anything.
You know,
that's some person's
opinion,
whatever.
I'm saying at least
these are compromises
and options that you
have.
Where the RIA and the
MPAA,
they don't want you
to have options.
They want full control
and they want to tell
you how you're going
to use their movies
and their intellectual
property.
Okay?
At least these are
options.
So,
debating any one of
those,
that's fine.
But,
they've proven,
they're proof of concept
that they do work.
Obviously,
iTunes,
you know,
jumped up in the
first week and made
millions of dollars,
millions of downloads
or whatever,
immediately.
People wanted it.
People were willing
to pay it.
99 cents a song.
You buy the one song
off the album
instead of paying
20 bucks for an album
that only has one
good song on it.
People thought that
was a good compromise,
a lot of them.
To me,
personally,
I still think that's
a little high.
I'd rather see like
50 cents a song or
something.
But hey,
again,
that's a personal
opinion.
so far,
so they must be
doing something
right,
you know?
Yeah,
absolutely.
Absolutely.
It hasn't hit my
personal level yet,
but a lot of
people's it has,
and that's
fan-freaking-tastic.
Another thing
that's happened
is,
and I did,
I talked about
this in the show
fairly recently,
and that is I
ordered a CD
from a group
online,
Deltron 3030,
something like
that.
Yeah,
I know what you're
talking about.
And I could order
that directly from
them,
which,
oh,
I'm glad I brought
this up,
actually.
This is a negative.
I haven't gotten
that CD yet,
and it's been
like a month or
more.
But,
I did have the
option of buying
it directly from
them.
You know,
they can burn
and make their
own CDs and
cut out the
RAA and all
the middlemen
because,
you know,
they jack up
the prices for
distribution and
advertising,
and they charge
these artists
because in the
past they had
full control.
The artists had
no other options
to get CDs
burnt and mass
produced.
But,
as hardware was
developed and came
up,
they had alternatives
and they had
options,
and that helped
the industry,
it helped the
artists,
it helped the
consumers,
but the RAA
lost a little bit
more control.
And like I said,
they didn't want
to lose business
to Blockbuster,
they don't want
to lose business
to other hardware
manufacturers,
other distributors,
consumers, but they
don't care about
what's best for the
consumer.
They don't care
what's best for
the economy or
the American,
yeah,
the American
economy.
They want
everything.
So there are
lots of ways to
come up with a
fair and balanced
compromise with
consumers.
And make sure,
still make sure
that people,
you know,
artists,
musicians,
whatever,
actors,
everybody,
get paid.
You know?
And that's just,
it's too late.
And until they
stop suing everybody
and recognize that
it's too late,
this is going to
continue.
And we have to
keep bringing it up
and telling people
about it.
And again,
savethethe.org.
And it's the
Induce Act.
And the other
thing that's sleazy
about this is they
tried to slip this
under the radar.
They tried to pass
this with a verbal
vote real quick,
slipped it through
without any publicity.
And that's just
underhanded.
They knew they
were wrong.
When you try to
sneak something in
like that,
you know you're
wrong.
So,
the EFF is trying
to bring attention
to this with that
lawsuit to Apple
or a demonstration
lawsuit.
And not only to Apple,
they showed that
CNET could get sued
and Toshiba,
and they made up
a bunch of,
just about everybody
because it's so broad.
So,
get this to a vote.
Let your
congresspeople know.
And if you go to
those sites,
you'll find ways
that you can fax
and you can send
emails to these people.
And I've done it.
I sent mine.
And let them know
that it needs to be
looked deeper into.
Do not blindly pass
another bill
like they did
the Patriot Act.
You know,
unanimously.
Don't let it
happen again.
All right,
I need a drink
and I didn't bring
a drink in here.
Yeah,
I got no drink either.
Oh well,
we're stuck.
Man,
I'm in,
yeah.
Well,
I tell you what
I'm going to do.
Well,
let's see.
Let's move into
the show and tell
because I know
you've got a lot
of show and tell
stuff.
Let me,
I'll give a couple
quick things
and then I'll
turn it over to you
and I'll try to
catch my breath
and lower my blood
pressure.
We had,
I had anyway,
a 2600 meeting
last week,
the August 2600
meeting.
So I went to that.
I've been writing
some new articles.
I actually submitted
a couple articles,
2600.
I've been working
on some others
that you and I
have been actually
talking about.
Some fun stuff.
I went to my 2600
meeting two months
in a row now.
My cookie girl
has not been there.
I don't know
what's up.
I'm starting to get
a little bit worried.
I go in,
I hook up with
my cookie girl.
I put the Mac down,
hook up some free
cookies.
I haven't been able
to get my free
cookies in two months
now.
So today,
so this past meeting
I should say,
last week,
I had to go Mac
on an old lady,
dude,
to get my free
cookies.
Does that make me
a sellout?
No,
not at all.
She could support
you and you could
sit around and hack
all day.
That's great.
Then again,
she's working at a
cookie shop.
Maybe she doesn't
have that much.
Yeah,
as long as she keeps
me in free cookies.
That's true.
Yeah,
I told her I loved
her,
man.
I don't know,
I feel kind of
wrong.
I feel kind of
dirty.
I took a shower
when I came home.
She's dreaming
about you right
now.
She loves me.
I came home and
took a shower and
then I ate the
other half of my
cookie,
but neither
anyway.
And ZeroDB
actually gave a
presentation at our
meeting on Plan
9,
which he's talked
about on the show
a few times.
And he put Plan
9 on his IBM
ThinkPad and gave
a little hands-on
demonstration,
which went really
well.
A lot of people
were interested in
that.
And that was
really cool.
I tried to film
some of it and
then the security
card came over and
told me that I
wasn't allowed to
film inside of the
commerce area known as
the mall.
Now wait,
can you back this
up?
Because I've heard
many people say
this about malls as
well.
What's the rationale?
Is it just that it's
their property and
they don't want you
to film or is there
something more that
I'm missing?
I don't know.
He didn't give me
an explanation.
He just said you're
not allowed to film
in the mall.
I didn't.
I'm like, oh,
really?
What's that about?
He's like, well,
it's just a rule.
They're not allowed
to film inside of
the mall area.
You can go outside
of the mall, but
you can't film
inside of the
building.
So I didn't want
I'm like, oh,
okay, I just
didn't know.
I didn't think
it was that big
of a deal.
So I put it up
and he kept on
presenting.
But yeah, I don't
know what the
rationale behind
that is.
Now I know
they've also
hassled us in the
past about
plugging in our
laptops, which
the first time
they did it,
the guy gave us
some crap about
using their
electricity.
And come on,
what minuscule
amount of
electricity are we
using?
But the other
time, one of the
other security guards
who was actually
respectful came
by and his
explanation was
that the cords
were going across
between tables
and they didn't
want somebody to
trip and get
sued.
So that, I give
that a valid
reason.
So that I'm
cool with.
So we still
plug in all the
time now.
We just make
sure we move
the table right
above it so that
the cord runs
under the table
and plugs in.
And they haven't
given us any
hassle about that
in a while.
Well, that's
cool.
Yeah.
So yeah, Plan
9 presentation
went really well.
I thought it was
pretty cool.
And he had given
a similar, well,
he didn't give a
demonstration at the
DEF CON meeting
but he brought
it with him
and was setting
it up at the
DEF CON and was
kind of showing
me some things
there.
But he went into
a little bit more
detail at the
meeting, the 2600
meeting this time
which was really
cool.
And we had a
couple new
members or at
least, let's see,
at least one new
member and then
someone who I'd
never seen before.
He said he'd come
years ago and had
returned so he's
new to me as far
as I know.
So had a couple
new people so it's
still growing.
There was probably,
gosh, I didn't
count again but I
would say around a
dozen people which
is pretty cool.
So it was a good
meeting.
I loved getting out
and talking tech
with people so it
went pretty well.
And let's see,
oh, the DDP
Hack Radio coming
along and getting
very close to done.
So we opened up
in the forums for
people to send in
their show submissions,
show ideas.
The information that
we need is all
outlined in the
Hacker Radio TV
Forum at
BinRev.com,
forums.BinRev.com.
So check that out.
Contact us with
your ideas.
And you and I
actually have got a
couple ideas.
One specifically that
I think is going to be
enormously successful.
Yeah, well, I think
that should stay top
secret for a little
while.
But I think it's
going to be a little
bit.
Yeah, so there will
be some other surprises
when we launch Hack
Radio, I think, I hope.
Yeah, I haven't even
asked about Hack
Radio, by the way.
I've been waiting for a
while.
I'm not trying to
say, like, there's
anything wrong with
how long it took, but
I am just all about
this streaming server
being set up.
Yeah, it's going to.
I am, too.
It's really going to be
cool because for a
change, I'm going to
be able to tune in to
a station, to a
streaming station, and
get hacking content
all the time.
Yep.
That's cool.
And it's going to be
one centralized place
that people will
always know that they
can come to.
And at least, you
know what, it'll be
a central, if nothing
else, a launching
off point to link to
everyone's individual
sites.
Right.
You know, come to the
station and then say,
oh, I missed the last
episode of Uberlito, so
link over to Uberlito
and download the old
MP3s.
Link over to Default
Radio.
Link over to Bin
Rev Radio.
Link over to whatever,
you know, the
Droop Show.
Link over to
everybody and get it.
If nothing else, that's
a cool feature of it.
Uh, uh, uh, uh, not
the Droop Show.
Oh, I'm sorry, not the
Droop Show.
The Infonomicon.
The Datonomicon?
The Infonomicon?
Yeah.
Infonomicon, definitely.
Yeah, I actually haven't
listened to the last
version of that.
I guess they called me.
I was asleep.
But I think they called
me, and I wish I could
have answered the phone,
so I haven't heard the
episode yet, but, um, I
have to hear what they
had to say.
I hope, um, well, yeah,
I'll listen to the
episode and see what
happened there.
Yeah, I haven't listened
to that one yet either,
but I gotta say, um,
preemptively, shouts to
Obfuscated Man.
That dude is hilarious.
At least, he's all about
my sense of humor, man.
My sense of humor.
Well, the one that I,
he...
He's sarcastic and, uh,
and rough.
Yeah, I absolutely, oh,
you like it rough, do you?
Oh, I love it rough,
baby.
Um, he did have me
laughing.
He made, what, there
was a joke about, um,
what was it about, uh,
disease tag?
Oh, dude, I was crying.
What are you saying?
He's playing disease tag
with his girlfriend?
I was, I almost pissed
on myself.
Yeah.
All right, who am I
kidding?
I did piss on myself.
Yeah, well, you know,
nothing wrong with that.
Yeah.
So, anyway, that's it
for me.
Now, you, I'm going to
take a breath while you
talk, because I know
you've got, you've got
some stuff to talk
about Bell's Mind, the
growth of Bell's Mind
that's going on.
You've added some new
features to that, um,
some new stuff you put
on the PBX, and if I'm
not mistaken, I think
you've been putting a lot
of time into practicing
the Albatross.
Am I correct on that?
Oh, boy.
Um, I learned about the
Albatross from Stank.
He demonstrated it to me
in Hope.
You were pretty good,
by the way.
Yeah, well, you know,
I was, I was only third
string, but, uh, I helped
out.
I don't even know what
that means, but, oh,
man, you got me crying
again, stop.
Oh, man.
So, um, oh, God, just
don't even bother to look
up the Albatross.
Terrible.
Kids, uh, Stank is
trying to pollute your
mind.
Parents, run away from
this show as fast as
as possible.
No, I'll tell them that
I purposely made that
mean, very mean joke to
not theory here, because
I found that on, uh, what
is it, Urban Dictionary.
UrbanDictionary.com.
Actually, it was, you
know what it was?
It was marked for
deletion.
So it's probably gone.
Nobody will know.
Somebody's going to have
to do some deep research.
I thought you said
that was on your, uh,
M4M trucker site that
you hang out at.
Um.
Oh, should I not
have mentioned that
on the air?
Yeah, I mean,
bookmarks are off
limits, man.
Stuff in the favorites
list, that's not for
public consumption.
Sorry, well, we'll
edit that out.
All right, go ahead.
Anyway.
Turn it out, it's
fair play.
So, uh, let's get
back on track a little
bit.
All right, Bell's
Mine.
Bell's Mine, yes.
Uh, that's the website
that I run, I almost
forgot.
Um, yeah, I've added a
couple new features, uh,
they're not all
complete yet.
People have been
asking for, uh, for
ways to search through
the site.
The search code is
getting there.
It's not done yet, um,
but it's getting there.
But now, um, now you
can see what numbers,
like, a particular
person has submitted.
Uh, you can just click
on their name in that,
in that top, uh, in the
top numbers list, and,
uh, it'll come up with
a huge list of numbers
that some of these guys
have scanned.
Let me tell you, right
now, Bell's Mine has
13,413 numbers in it.
Uh, we haven't been up
that long, and some of
these guys, man, they
are just banging out
stuff like crazy.
Selton X, Gray Area,
I hope that's the way
his name is pronounced,
Selton X, Selton X,
him, or, or her, uh,
and Gray Area, which I
met in, uh, in Vegas.
Gray Area is awesome.
And Test Set, they have
submitted, uh, well over
1,000 numbers each.
Selton X is actually
over 2,000 numbers.
Damn!
Those guys are really
making, making my job
pretty easy.
Um, they're power
washing the numbers.
They are really, they're
fucking rinsing out the
goddamn phones.
No joke, man.
Um, so let me think.
Uh, a couple things
were suggested to me.
I think Ref, that's, uh,
R, capital E, P, H, I
think he was the one
who suggested that I
should start a forum.
Now, don't freak out.
This forum is not, it's
not going to be to, to
discuss anything.
It's only going to be
to discuss freaking,
and specifically, issues
with Bell's Mind,
submission issues, you
know, bug reports,
feature requests.
Uh, we're not trying to,
we're not trying to
replace your forums or
any kind of crap like
that.
I have no interest in
all that kind of
maintenance.
Yeah, dude, I, I, I
mean, if you take away
my forums, I've got
nothing.
No, I just, I just want
to give everybody a
heads up that when we
have forums, they're
going to be specifically
for the stuff on Bell's
Mind and absolutely
nothing else.
So, so, DDP Bell's
Mind, is that what, uh?
Oh, Jesus.
DDP forums already have
so many users that there's
no, no point in trying
to build a little
experience like that.
I, I, I'd much rather
hang out there and talk
about, you know, coding
and stuff like that than
do it on my own
personal site.
So, so, aside from
forums, I've been
looking for forum
software and pretty much
in my mind, every piece
of forum software sucks.
Um, because most of
them use MySQL instead
of Postgres.
And, uh...
I thought, actually, I
hate to pimp the one
that we use, but I
thought Envision was,
I thought with them, one
of the more recent
versions, they offered
one for both MySQL and
Postgres, but I wouldn't
swear to that.
Um, I actually have a,
uh, uh, another
objection to Envision.
The last version I saw
had a pretty serious,
uh, pretty serious
vulnerability that I,
that I came up with.
It's very, very simple,
but, um, I was gonna
write an article about
it.
Maybe I still will.
Well, there was one,
actually, we have not
upgraded because I know
there's a vulnerability
in the later version
than the one that we
have as well.
Yeah.
So...
Yeah, this has, this
particular bug that I'm
talking about has nothing
to do with SQL injection
because that's, that's
what I've seen most of
the Envision bugs are
SQL type stuff.
Right.
Um, you know, nothing
to do with, like,
cookies or any of the
kind of junk like that.
It's, it's kind of like
a different class of, uh...
Cross-site scripting?
Of X.
No, it's not cross-site,
it's cross-site scripting
either.
None of that stuff.
It's, it's kind of,
kind of different.
It's hard to explain.
Um, you know what?
I'll make a promise that
for the next issue of
BinRev, I will have an
article about it.
What?
So, what is it,
2.2, I guess?
Yeah.
Okay, cool, cool.
Um...
Actually, I gotta say,
since you brought it up,
we are, I've gotten some
pretty good article
submissions.
We actually have got a
good head start on this
one for a change, so
that, that's a very good
place to be in instead of
scrambling at the last
minute.
So, so far, we started
off good, but that
doesn't mean for people
to stop sending stuff in.
We still need more.
Right.
Yep, always can use
more.
Yep.
Um, so where was I?
Oh, okay, forum
software.
Looking for forum
software, but it's,
it's hard to,
hard to get going.
I've also been looking
for a content management
software because there
are some things that I
had a long time ago
that, uh, like I had
some, uh, on my old
website, entanglement.net,
I had some, uh, some
phone sounds and stuff
like that that I had
recorded that I put up
so people could listen
to them.
Different types of error
messages and stuff like
that.
I've got a lot more
phones because I have a
bunch of international
stuff, uh, that I
recorded months and
months ago.
Um, so I'm going to
take all those phone
sounds and put them up
on the site somewhere,
but I want some content
management software to
make my life easier.
I don't want to maintain
static webpaces anymore.
So I've almost settled
on that software and
once that's up and
running, there's going to
be way more than just
scanned out numbers on
Bell's Mind.
There's going to be, you
know, some freaking text
files, there's going to be
freak sounds, there's going
to be a lot of cool stuff
on there.
And now that I have
unlimited Western Europe
courtesy of Lingo, which
by the way, Lingo's call
quality on, I'd say every
10th call is really
terrible.
Um, but in any case,
once, uh, now that I've
got their service up and
running, I can, uh, I can
make all kinds of
international calls and,
uh, and get lots and
lots of cool recordings.
So look forward to that
soon.
Let me think.
PBX updates.
Well, and also before,
I guess we can't mention
any specifics, but, um,
in general content for
Bell's Mind, well, I
guess some data
pillaging has been going
on.
Uh, yeah.
Is that safe to say?
I was, I was just going
to mention, uh, something.
Hmm.
Last couple days we've
been on some, uh,
missions.
Yeah, we've been
looking around, um,
should I even mention
what it is?
No.
Well, you know what,
though, it's on, it's on
the main page.
People are going to
know.
Hmm.
Oh.
Well.
Well, anyway.
We've been, we've been
looking around for, uh,
for data on, um, on
other countries and stuff
like that, so.
Yeah, that's all.
Yeah.
Uh, Bell's Mind is going
international, and, uh,
cause, like I said, I've
got unlimited Western
Europe.
I want to start scanning
numbers in Europe, so I'm,
uh, I'm looking for
information on, uh, on
other countries.
Anything you guys got to
submit, feel free to send
it off to me, and, uh,
then I'm going to add
support so people can add
add numbers, uh, for
different countries.
And I think that's, that's
going to be really cool.
Bell's Mind is joining the
global interweb.
I, I like the progress of
Bell's Mind so far, but
the point has been, uh,
brought to me that, you
know, scanning the U.S.
is cool, but, you know,
freaks aren't just in the
U.S.
Most notably, Havoc.
Havoc is like, you know,
he's our man in Poland, or
not our man in Poland, but
he's the guy that everybody
knows in Poland.
He is all about
freaking, and I would love
to see, uh, you know, what
he's got over there.
I'd love to see some scan
numbers he's got.
So, that's the plan for the
next large update for
Bell's Mind.
Very cool.
And the PBX, uh, let me
just throw this in here
quickly.
The PBX, we're adding new
shows to the, uh, to the
menus.
We've got to wait until
somebody records new
menus for us.
If somebody wants to
record menus, definitely
email me, um, mtheory at
bellsmind.net.
Um, we would love to have
any type of menus people
can submit.
You know, I'll send you a
script, get the menus back.
If they're good, I'll throw
them up in the box.
Um, but yeah, we're looking
to add shows to it.
Um, um, I don't want to
list the shows that we've
got already, because I want
to make sure that we've
got everything set up before
they go live.
But new shows are coming
up, and we would like
people to, uh, you know,
if you've got a show and
you want it to be on our
PBX, definitely email me.
Uh, let me know what the
show is.
And the only, the only
stipulation I have on it is
that it's, is that the
recording is good quality.
Um, if you're committed to
making a show, it doesn't
have to be weekly or
bi-weekly or whatever, but
it's gotta, you've gotta
come out with a show every
once in a while.
You can't come out with
two episodes and then, and
then stop, because I don't
want to have to re-record
menus because someone's
not doing their show.
Um, and you've also, out of
courtesy, just when your
show is updated, when
there's a new episode, just
email me so I can download
it, you know, convert it to
the proper format and put it
on the PBX.
That's it.
So if you're willing to do
all those things, we can, uh,
we can get your show
live on the PBX.
Yeah, and actually, we
may be able to work the
whole thing out automated
between DDB Hack Radio
scheduling and get it up
on there as well, so we
may be able to automate
that whole, that whole
process.
It, uh, it requires a
little bit of scripting,
but, um, I'm sure, as the
listeners know, I've, uh, I
started, I started
programming last week, so I
may actually be able to
pull some of that off.
Hmm.
Maybe, but I don't know,
you're a little small.
Yeah, well, you know, I'm
starting out with the
Quick Basic, and once I
get that, uh, you
may be, uh, oh, you'd
kill me.
Oh, man, so let me think,
is there anything else?
Um, oh, Evan Doorbell
recordings.
I, I got a couple of them
up there, but I'm looking
to put everything on
wideweb.com up on the
PBX, because Evan Doorbell,
Mark Bernay, Al Bernay, all
those guys who do phone
recordings, Strom Carlson has
good phone recordings on
his site, I want to put all
that stuff up, because those
guys do so much work, and,
uh, I want everybody to be
able to take advantage of
that.
So, all that stuff is
going up as soon as I have
time to, like I said,
rebuild the menus and
convert the files, it's
going to all be there,
with their permission, of
course.
Yeah, and, uh, also we
discussed, uh, without
going into too much detail
again, only because we want
to make sure we can get
certain things to work or
not, um, we might be able
to offer some other
features with the PBX to
people who have hack radio
shows, like, perhaps,
mailboxes, voicemail boxes,
um, recording, things like
that, if we can get
something, if we can figure
out how to do that easily
without consuming a whole
lot of our time taking away
from other projects, is
that accurate?
Right.
Uh, yeah, there's a lot of
things I would like to offer
the guys who are doing
radio shows, because they're
putting in so much time,
uh, you know, to help
everybody in the scene out,
so, um, yeah, there's,
there's stuff coming for you
guys, anybody, anybody who
I've talked to about their
radio show, uh, you've got
some nice stuff coming to
you, as long as, uh, as
long as my time
constraints work out.
Oh, and by the way, if
anybody's doing a radio show
and you guys need a bridge
to record on, just call up
my PBX and, uh, dial up
any bridge, and feel free
to use it anytime.
You know, we've got tons
and tons of bandwidth,
the machines idle, you
know, pretty much all day,
uh, because the load from
the Astro server is so low.
You know, we get a bunch
of people on at night, but,
you know, if you guys want
to use it during the day or
during the night, whatever,
to record a show on one of
the bridges, please, by all
means, do it.
So, uh, you know, use the
PBX, use my bandwidth,
you know?
Fear.
Or, I fear the
fairness.
Now, um, let's use that
con, that idea of working
on the, um, well, on
Bell's mind, that is, and
kind of transition into what
it was going to be our main
topic.
Let me check our time here.
We've got about 20 minutes,
so we've still got some good
time to talk about this
stuff, um, and transition
just to talk about databases
in general, and then
specifically, more specifically
relational databases, because
this is basically what I do
for a living, and
something that you use on
bellsmind.net regularly, you
know, it's an important part
of the, I mean, it is the
whole thing, it's the back
end of the whole system, and
I think we're going to both
come out, and I think you've
already done it, come out and
endorse Postgres as, to me,
the dominant relational database
management system out there
right now.
Yeah, um.
But before we talk about the
specifics of the individual
ones, let's talk about just
databases in general, and
what, what constitutes a
database.
For example, in its simplistic,
in its most simplistic form, a
database is just a collection
of data.
It can be as simple as an Excel
spreadsheet, or a text file with
scanned phone numbers, or
anything like that in it.
Right.
By the textbook definition, a
database can simply be an
organized collection of, an
organized gathering of data.
And over the years, you know,
they've come up with processes
and ways to access that data
and interface it, whether it
be from, you know, a third,
fourth generation programming
language, accessing that data
file, um, accessing it
directly within some sort of
database system with SQL of
some sort.
Um, most recently, the
phenomenon and the trend has
been to move to something
called relational databases.
Now, um, gosh, this is
really something that would
lend itself well to charts and
drawing and demonstrating stuff
and graphs and, and stuff like
that.
But not on the radio.
But yes, unfortunately, I'm
going to have to try to do
this.
We're going to have to try to do
this.
You have to jump in and help me
here.
Um, a relational database, what
makes it different than just a
collection of data is it's more
like a collection of, of tables
is the terminology.
It's a collection of databases, a
collection of files.
And each one of these files has
been normalized to have very
precise data in each individual
table.
And data normalization is
something that's a very, very,
very important term in relational
databases and absolutely
something in your computer
classes.
I know like this is one of the
things they teach you in the
beginning and it sounds real
boring, but it's the, just the,
the foundation of relational
databases.
And I guess to make up an example
off the top of my head would be
imagine that you have a, uh, a
website, an online storefront and
you could easily put a bunch of
data into one big file that has
name, address, credit card
number, um, the items that they
ordered, the price of each item,
et cetera.
But that's not the most efficient
way to store data in a database,
especially relational database.
You have duplicate records, you
have duplicate items, you, one
person places an order on one day
and then comes back a week later
and places another one.
You've got a whole nother record in
there with a lot of the same
information, which is wasted.
So, normalizing that data is to
sit down and come up with a
logical way to break up your data
into multiple tables so that it
is efficiently stored and you
minimize or eliminate, ideally
eliminate duplicate data of any
kind.
And to do that, you'd collapse.
Instead of having one table with
all that information and all the
duplicates and stuff, you break
that out into logical separations
of different files or different
tables.
For example, you'd make a table
with customers and customer
information.
And that table would contain name,
address, phone number, things like
that.
And a unique ID for each customer.
Right.
Well, and they'll have to be tied
together at some point.
You make a separate table of items
and a unique item ID for that item.
And you could break it down to as
many tables as you want, right down
to making, if you really wanted to
separate out a table for states.
You can make a table with 50 records
for all the states and the state
codes that can be cross-referenced.
Because technically, two people from
one state order something, that's
duplicate data.
Seems kind of silly.
It's only a two-character code or
something.
But even that can be normalized off to
a separate table.
And most database systems and
programs, like at universities and
companies and stuff, you will find
that you don't have a database.
It's a common misconception to say
the database.
Well, it's a database, but it's a
database that's made up of thousands
and thousands of individual tables.
And those tables all have to have
relationships with each other.
And if you can take off with that,
you were just about to say unique
identifiers, and those are important
because they'll tie the databases
together.
Yeah, exactly.
Depending on, you know, obviously
it depends on what your database is.
But for example, how many different
tables do you have with your
BellsMine database?
Ooh, that's a good question.
You know, not precisely, but just
kind of ballpark, I mean.
Probably about ten, I'd say.
Not so many.
It's actually, it's fairly simple
right now.
So, like, when somebody submits
things, do you keep the submitters,
do you keep the people who submit
in a table separately that's
cross-referenced from the main
collection of numbers, I would
imagine, in a different table?
I don't know.
I'm making this up, of course,
so please correct me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Basically, there's a table that has
each user in it, right?
And then there's a table that has
the scanned numbers in it.
And the scanned number is, like,
the area code, the prefix, the
suffix, the description, the
number type, and then it has a
link to the user's table with the
user ID.
A unique user ID.
Yeah, the unique user ID.
I don't actually store the user
name in the table of scanned
numbers.
Instead, I just store, like, this
two-byte, or however large the
database makes it, probably two-byte
or four-byte number that
references the user table.
So none of that information is
duplicated at any point.
Right.
So, for example, StankDog could be
assigned number one, and let's
say Strom Carlson assigned number
two, and G.I.
Joe, whoever else we want to
shout out, G.I.
Joe assigned number three.
So every time I submit a number,
instead of duplicating my name
every time, you simply point to
that same unique ID of one, so
you know that no matter how many
numbers I get, there's only one
occurrence of StankDog in that
table.
Right.
So thereby, eliminating, if I
submitted 500 numbers, you don't
have StankDog written 500 times in
one table, you have it once in a
separate table linked to from the
main table.
Right.
And that helps you with
consistency, too, other than, like,
making your database smaller.
Like, you don't have to worry if
somebody submits something, and,
like, if you have them type their
name in when they submit it, but
they don't type it in two different
ways, like StankDog or StankDog with
a space in the middle, you know.
Right.
You can keep everything very
consistently.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Data integrity is maintained by the
sheer logical nature of it.
Yeah.
So that is, you know, that's a good
example, and again, that's one tiny
example of, I mean, imagine how much
space is saved.
All those bytes, instead of, you know,
nine characters, you use one.
Right.
So, 500, do the math, you see you save
a lot of bytes there, and this, again,
is a small example.
Now, when you're working for a
Fortune 500 company, and you have
thousands of tables, and lots and
lots of orders, think Amazon.
If they didn't have data normalized and
running efficiently, just imagine the
space that they would be taking up.
And they still take up a lot of
space, don't get me wrong, I'm sure
their database is huge.
Yeah.
But, imagine what it wouldn't be if
they didn't have normalized data.
So, that's what a relational database
is, where all of the individual
tables have relationships with each
other through some sort of unique
key, and it's called, each table has a
key that you use to read it.
So, by figuring out the logical keys
and how you can break this down, you
form relationships with all of the
tables.
For example, I mentioned earlier about
making a table with the 50 states on
it.
This also helps your data integrity
because you can present a user, for
example, you can write, this is all
we're talking back-end stuff of
database design.
But on the front end, you can give a
user a drop-down list.
That drop-down list is powered by your
validation table of the 50 states.
And when they get a drop-down list,
they can't make up a state.
Right.
And I have been, I have worked for
places that had such garbage data in
them, that you would just laugh out
loud at some of the crap that they put
in there.
So, by having validation tables, which
is just kind of a term for a different
type of table, you can ensure that
only one of those valid 50 states gets
input.
It will not give them the option to put
something else in from the, if you
design a nice screen for them.
Or, even if you yourself as a
programmer make a mistake and try to
put in, you know, G-O instead of G-A-E
and try to put in a state that doesn't
exist, it will even stop you from
corrupting your own data.
Right.
And an example, I guess, again, relates
back to Bell's Mind.
If people are familiar with, you know,
more familiar with that, I guess.
They, when you enter a number, you enter
like an area code and a prefix.
When you submit that number, I actually
have the NAMPA, which is the North
American Numbering Plan Association.
I have their database of all the area
codes and exchanges in the U.S. that are
valid.
If you enter one that's not valid, it's
not going to let you submit the number.
Excellent example.
Perfect example.
And enter like 914-111, and then, you
know, it'll tell you that it's valid.
Or, actually, it should.
You know what?
I haven't tested it in a while.
It's on a bunch of code updates.
Maybe it does.
Let's do it.
Yeah, well, I doubt you undid that.
If it was working, you know, earlier,
I'm sure you didn't undo that
functionality.
Yeah, we'll see.
Well, now I know.
Not intentionally.
After this show airs, there's going to
be like 40,000 numbers submitted and
invalid.
Well, now, the next question, and
please, if there's something else you
think I left out or you want to add,
go ahead.
But I was going to move into what is
database programming?
Because people hear the term, and, you
know, well, when people hear
programming, they immediately think C
programming, C++, object-oriented,
visual basic, something.
Yeah.
When you say database programming,
people don't exactly understand what
you mean unless they've done it before.
Now, the predominant...
It's just funny that you bring that
up, because until, you know, until
recently, I didn't really have a concept
of what database programming really was.
I just, like, I don't know.
I kind of, you know what, once we get
into details, I'll explain about all
that, I guess.
Yeah, and I'm going to try to speed up
here, because we're running, we've got
maybe 12 minutes.
Yeah, I'll go very...
Let me try to go quickly here.
Actually, I don't want to rush this,
though, but basically, the language that
most database, relational database
systems use is SQL.
And I hate it when people call it SQL.
It's not.
It's SQL.
Microsoft, when people refer to
Microsoft, they use the word SQL.
SQL, but I don't call all SQL language,
all SQL language a SQL.
I hate that.
But you write programs in some type
of SQL language, some type of SQL.
Now, SQL is a standard.
There's an ANSI standard for SQL
that was developed years ago.
It's nothing new.
But as technology advanced and as
databases became more and more complex
and more and more feature-filled,
they found the need arose to do things
with the data and analyze the data.
With data warehousing as a phenomenon
lately and deep data analysis,
they found that they needed to start
coming up with ways to do something
more advanced instead of simple...
You know, people who know basic SQL
know that the most simple SQL is
select whatever from whatever table name,
where, and then whatever criteria.
Select all numbers from Bell's Mind main table
where area code equals 914.
Right.
So it can be that simple.
But it's not always.
Sometimes you need to sort them.
Sometimes you want to eliminate 914,
or 111.
It's not a valid or something.
Whatever your example you're...
You can eliminate those if you have
a little bit more flexibility.
Right.
Well, most SQL languages now
that come with these things
are, believe it or not,
object-oriented SQL.
For example, in Oracle,
it's called PLSQL.
In Postgres, it's...
What is it called again?
Is it just...
It's called PLPGSQL.
Yeah.
Each different relational database management system
has their own.
They still have ANSI standards
supported in most of them.
Actually, Microsoft doesn't support all of them,
which I was going to talk about.
We might have to save that for another one.
But basically,
they all have a query language of some kind
that's a lot more robust than people think.
And maybe if we break down...
Maybe if we go through some of the lists.
Like, there's four big ones in my mind.
There are more,
but there's four big ones.
Oracle,
Microsoft SQL Server 2000,
MySQL,
and Postgres,
or PostgresQL.
Right.
However that's pronounced.
Those are the four biggest ones.
The two latter being
free, open source,
publicly available,
and common stuff you see on the web a lot.
Oracle being the big boy.
That's the big expensive one.
And SQL Server is not exactly cheap.
And each one of them
has their own SQL language
to interface with it.
So,
there are certain common functions
that people want to do to their data.
Like dates.
Dates and times is a great example
because it's universal
across almost any one of these.
Date manipulation
can be really messy
and really tricky
when you try to sit there
and mess with system date
and system time
and time stamps
and breaks down to
fractions of a second.
What most of these have done
is they have functions,
date time functions,
that you can manipulate
that are pre-written
and you just pass parameters
to and from them
to get the format that you want.
Just like you would do
in any other object oriented language.
In C++,
you can get
a pre-written function
that you pass something to it
and it returns you data
in that format.
Same thing with SQL.
These come in
two different types generally.
Stored procedures
and functions.
Now,
you would know more about
I would
than the web development part of it.
Most of mine
is all back-end programming.
I don't know
how often
or if at all
you use procedures
or functions
with Bell's Mind
or any other stuff
you've been developing.
Is that...
Well,
that's what I was going to
bring up before.
It's funny that you mentioned
people aren't really familiar
what it means
to do database programming
and honestly,
what I had been using
for the longest time
because I've done a couple
of database projects before,
some fairly large ones
and I've always just done
the selects
and inserts
and updates
and deletes
and stuff like that manually.
That was just the way
I was used to it
because when I started
with MySQL,
at least as far as I knew,
there wasn't any type of
language for stored procedures.
I mean,
I knew I could use SQL
but I didn't really know
that SQL had all these
extra functions
like you said,
to handle dates
and to pad numbers
and stuff like that.
I didn't know all that stuff
and just recently
I've been finding that out
so now I've been trying
to migrate my code
so that I can put more
of the code in the database,
have the database
do more of the work
instead of my PHP script
and that itself
helps with consistency.
Like the database
can do a lot of things
to keep your data consistent
when inserts are happening
at the same time
and it can make sure
that they happen
in a certain order
and stuff like that.
So as of right now,
I don't really use
stored procedures
or functions very much
but I plan on using them
a lot in the future.
Yeah,
and some of them
can be as simple
as like you said,
the LPAD or the RPAD
is something you and I
were talking about recently
that's simply
a formatting issue.
You know,
if you want to change
a numeric field
to a character field
or vice versa
or you want to,
let's say,
right justify a field
instead of left justify.
You know,
you have reason
to display it
justified to the right
for whatever reason.
Well,
that's not generally
easy to do
with basic SQL.
Yeah.
You can write
SQL code to do it
but it will take a while.
It's really messy
and tricky
and it's usually customized.
Well,
you can write a function
to do that
but there are
pre-written functions
that ship
and each one
comes with,
they're a little bit different
but most of them
are fairly consistent.
There is an LPAD,
RPAD in Oracle.
That's where I've used it
for in the past
and apparently
we looked this weekend
and there's similar,
the parameters
are slightly different
for Postgres
but it accomplishes
the same thing
and the date functions
are very similar as well.
I'm finding,
I'm now working
in a SQL Server 2000
environment
and I'm finding
that they,
I don't like the way
Microsoft is doing
their date functions.
They're really,
I don't like them
at all compared
to Oracle.
Oracle was so clean
and nice
and oh,
their date functions
were just beautiful
and SQL Server 2000
I am not impressed
with their date
formatting features.
It's just,
yuck
and I have to use
other,
I have to use
functions within functions
to try to clean up
the date to the format
that I wanted
and it's not cool
at all.
Using convert functions,
date functions
inside of convert functions,
it's not pretty at all.
I'm truncating data,
it's really tacky
if you ask me
to get the job done.
Yeah.
But,
these are all
pre-written functions
just like,
again,
I said,
you know,
reusable code with C.
You can download
someone else's already
pre-written function
that'll right justify
something.
You can do the same
thing as SQL
that usually ships
with the database.
At the same time,
if it doesn't exist
within the database
or if there's something
that you need to do
specifically
for your installation
or your data
and it's very important
that you know
and understand
your data
and the relationships
between your data,
understand your primary keys,
how to build your foreign keys,
stuff like that.
It's very important
that you know
that kind of stuff
and you can write
your own functions
and then you can in turn
share them
with other installations,
other people
that use similar software.
For example,
let's say,
let's go back
to the example
with the states.
You have a validation table
of 50 states on it.
Well,
I'm writing a separate program
over here somewhere
usually called
a stored procedure.
I'm writing a program
or a procedure over here
that needs to,
A,
read a date from,
say,
a comma separated value file
that someone sends me
and then insert it
into our database.
Well,
before I do that,
I want to verify it
on this validation table.
I can write a function
and reuse it
over and over again
save it as a name
and simply call that function
from within my program
and since it's always
the same with our table,
the keys don't usually change.
Once you've set a key
in a database,
you don't usually start
moving stuff around very much.
I can write a procedure
that automates that
and I simply tell it,
go do the date validate
or go do the state validation procedure
and then come back
if it's successful
and if it's successful,
I continue writing my program.
So,
if you write a lot
of good procedures,
your program can be as simple
as a bunch of function calls
within basic SQL statements
and most programs
in a database environment
are stored procedures.
They will do all these steps
like take a data file
that I get,
let's say,
not theory sends me a data file
or let's say I send
not theory a data file
a better example.
Let's say I find a text file
on my hard drive
of a scan of phone numbers
that I made a week ago.
Comma separated values,
I tell him,
here's the field names,
here's the exact data
that is in here,
he knows his data
and his tables,
he can write a procedure
that will parse through my file
if my dates are in a different format
than the dates in his table,
he can call the date function
with the proper parameters
and it does the conversion work
for him.
He just has to tell it
what format he needs
and he writes that program
and then,
bam,
execute it,
it runs,
it parses through,
it validates everything
and the result is
you just loaded
a thousand numbers
or a million numbers
into your database,
clean,
verified,
data integrity intact
with no duplicates
and absolute clean table
that's just as clean at the end
as it was at the beginning
and that is the heart
of database programming.
Now,
I wanted to go through
some of the specific ones
but,
I'm going to skip
a couple of these,
I'll do a mini review
on SQL Server 2000
on an upcoming show
because I've been learning that
and dealing with that recently
so I'm going to save that
for another show.
I also worked in Oracle,
I was in an Oracle shop
for a while
and I'm going to skip
that one.
These are the two
commercial options.
We've got about
five or six minutes left
and the one thing
that I do want to end
this show
and make sure we emphasize
is the open source
alternatives that are
out there,
the free alternatives
that are out there
and that is
MySQL,
yeah,
I corrected myself,
MySQL
and Postgres SQL,
Postgres SQL,
satellite panacea.
Now,
you and I have been
talking lately
and I'm becoming,
you've been convinced
for a while,
but I've been becoming
more and more convinced
as I do research
on Postgres
that it's really,
really every bit
as powerful
as Oracle
and some of the other options.
Almost,
well,
maybe more so,
honestly.
Really?
I think so.
Everything that I've been
able to do in Oracle,
I've seen an equivalent
for in Postgres
so far.
Now,
granted,
you're developing
more in Postgres
than I am,
unfortunately.
I wish I could do more
and maybe I can
help out in the site
in the future
with some of that
when I get time,
but so far,
everything I've looked for
and I've been looking
lately because I know
that you think
very highly of it.
Yeah.
It's got everything
that I've seen
offered in Oracle
so far.
Yeah,
I actually,
I used to be a MySQL nut.
I used to love it,
but I ran into
one database project
that I was working on
that MySQL
literally could not
handle it.
And if anybody wants
to look up the data set,
it's a map data set.
It's called Tiger
and it's from the USGS,
United States Geological Survey.
They have a database
called Tiger
that has every street
in the entire US
and you can download it.
It's like maybe,
I want to say
it's like four gigabytes
of text
or something,
maybe five,
no,
five giga,
it's about five gigabytes
of BZIFs
or GZIFs.
So when you expand it,
it's huge
and I wanted to turn that
and I wanted to put that
into MySQL
and be able to draw maps.
Like I could say,
okay,
draw a map
of this region
and it would draw
all the streets
in that area.
Tried doing it in MySQL,
MySQL crapped out
in a big time.
So I started looking around
and I found Postgres.
I put the data
into Postgres.
Postgres handled it
no problem.
Postgres can deal
with huge data sets
and when I was done
importing all these tables
and creating all the indexes,
the database had,
in just one table,
it had multiple tables.
The largest table
had 147 million records
and the index
was two gigabytes.
So just one index
was two gigabytes.
So the whole data set
was like 36
or 38 gigabytes total
and I ran,
you know,
I generated maps
all the time
and Postgres
had no problem with it.
So that to me
sold me right there
and ever since
I've just found out
more features
and I'm just even more
in love with it
than I was initially.
Yeah,
I can't agree more.
I think when you've got
a database management system
that's every bit
as powerful as Oracle
and free,
I mean,
I think we all know
Oracle is a gigantic company.
It's not a cheap product.
It's not a cheap system
and you can get something
with near functionality
for free.
That's fantastic.
Yeah,
you can't go wrong.
The last company
I worked with,
they had Oracle
do some work for them
and the bill
at the end of it
ended up being
somewhere around
$10 million.
Yeah.
It was a huge project.
Don't get me wrong.
Oracle,
I don't know that Oracle
really ripped them off
because the project
was absolutely enormous
but it was still
$10 million.
I don't,
that's a lot of money.
You couldn't spend
that much
on a Postgres installation,
I'm sure.
You know,
even with considering
like putting hundreds
of developers on it,
you couldn't spend
that much money.
Yeah,
and that's the other thing
is I was a little bit
concerned that I'd never
used Microsoft SQL Server
2000 before.
I'm adapting pretty damn well.
Actually,
if you can work with one
and you understand
your fundamentals
and the basics
and some of the stuff
we talked about tonight,
I mean,
listen back to it again
if you have to,
but basic database features
and concepts,
I had no problems adapting.
So far,
so good.
So,
and the same thing
as I'm looking
into Postgres,
I'm finding a lot
of similarities.
So,
we're going to have
to wrap it up
because we are
dead out of time.
Oh.
But there's,
we can spend another,
hold another show
on this
and we will
sometime in the future
coming back
and looking at
some specifics
of each one
and comparing them.
because there's
nothing wrong
with Oracle.
I'm just saying
it's pricey,
you know.
It's a good product
but it's pricey.
Yeah,
I think,
I guess in a couple
weeks when we have
more time to do this
again,
I'll have a lot
more experience
because my,
my actually,
I'm using,
I'm using Postgres
stuff for my business
now and I'm going
to have to learn
a lot of store
procedures,
a lot of functions,
all that stuff.
I'm going to be
doing it 24 hours a day.
So,
you'll know a lot
more in a couple
of weeks.
My instant messenger
is up all day,
so,
I've got the numbers.
By all means,
feel free.
Now,
let's wrap up here.
I've got a couple
quick shouts.
I'm not sure if I
mentioned this on the
show before,
but I just wanted
to give one more
shout to Rax
and the rest,
many of the others.
I single out Rax
because he's my
homeboy,
but all the guys
that were working
on the AV stuff
at Hope.
At Hope,
when I put on
my presentation,
I walked up there,
they had everything
ready,
they had it all set,
easy to go,
it took 30 seconds,
I was plugged in,
ready to give my
presentation.
These guys were
sitting up behind
the cameras the
whole time,
making sure the
sound was right,
making sure the
video was right,
and I,
for one,
appreciated that
because,
to me,
that was probably
really boring.
I mean,
yeah,
I guess they got
to watch the
presentations and
stuff,
but that was
really cool of
them,
and I don't know
if they got any
credit.
I really wish
people appreciated
that more,
so I just wanted
to give a shout
out to them,
and,
of course,
Rax,
because he's
just awesome.
Yeah,
I will second
the shout
to Rax.
Rax is the
man.
Hmm,
let me think,
who do I want
to shout out?
The guys I met
at DEFCON,
some people are
particularly media
shy,
so I will not
mention their
names,
but,
yeah,
shouts to them,
definitely,
they were awesome,
I had a great
time at DEFCON.
Thanks,
shouts to
CodeMonkey,
next month I
will be at the
2600 meeting,
unless something
really terrible
happens.
Awesome.
Yeah,
yeah,
I wanted to
go this
month,
but,
you know,
it's a long
story,
and I don't
think CodeMonkey
went this
month anyway,
so it doesn't
really matter.
Awesome is my
word of the
show.
Awesome.
I think,
shout out to
everybody who
submitted numbers,
I mean,
not just the top
guys,
like,
everybody who
submitted numbers,
I really appreciate
it,
keep the emails
coming,
you know,
give me suggestions,
and,
damn,
that's all I can
think of right
now,
I know there's
somebody that I'm
missing,
but.
I'll also
add a shout
out to one
of the guys
down here in
Miami,
a guy I met
recently,
he's really
cool,
and that's
El Diablo,
shout out to
him,
I'm going to
be working
with him on
some upcoming
projects and
some upcoming
things,
so shouts to
him.
And,
email us at
radio at
binrev.com,
article submissions
come to
articles at
binrev.com,
and we're
going to close
out with
another track
from MC
Chris,
and that's
going to do
it for the
show.
Once again,
thank you,
not theory,
for being on
the show.
Thank you for
having me.
Always a
pleasure,
even though we
joke around a
lot.
That's what's
great about
having you on
the show.
You and I,
I think we've
got that sense
of humor thing
where we know
how far we can
push each other
and make each
other laugh,
so I think that
works out really
cool.
Speaking of that
sense of humor,
shout out to
Obfuscated again,
he's the man.
Yeah,
yeah,
he had me
rolling on that,
and I guess
until we master
the albatross,
that's going to
have to do it
for the show,
so I think
we should tell
everybody that
we'll see them
next week,
same hack time.
Same hack channel.
This one goes
out to all the
cuties in the
crowd,
walk the kitty
corner,
with the itty
bitty box,
scoping out the
window,
waxing wise
while you walk
I stalk
the fox box
to the party
I'm lying,
security checks
to my eye
disinfected,
in the elevator
waiting to get
rested,
open the doors
to the floor
by the heat,
and you pass a J
will they play
pause with me,
get a pass
a couple nice
unless you like
it neat,
all the guys
step up,
all the guys
take teeth,
poke,
feds the air,
you're feeling
Denise,
on your mansion,
on your minor,
on the middle
east,
the Fashita,
hop a dress
to the Syrola
with a sister
liquor belt loop,
bleep to the liquor
with lips,
smelling best
and the bubblegum
scratch the shifts
take your lips
shoot,
suck the deck out
and cook all my dash
to a crib,
the roomie is a geek
he's playing God's keys
making friends
I'm down to end
so I'm climbing up
a tree,
beers clinging to my teeth
Mr. Wendell edge
hit the hedge
land upon my teeth
I'm a dome rack
that is a fact jack
look at it instead
playing with warm wax
hitting all the hundreds
at the vendor machine
the one hitter
trade dinner
all you need's an ID
I said I'm a dome rack
that is a fact jack
looking at it instead
playing with warm wax
hitting all the hundreds
at the vendor machine
the one hitter
trade dinner
all you need's an ID
grab a bottle
though I'm plaid
please
everything you girls wear
make me stare at the dirt
the five balls
I flirt with y'all
study hall
do the geek talk
turn your idol
back into your skull
but I'm a freak
spell F-O-Double-3-K
when you walk on my way
put my pockets in play
I can't say what's your name
care to chat for a bit
it's me, Brian
the guy from the class
rushing it
care to sit
have a trip
can't force some fun dip
trust the S.P. doesn't impress me
what you think of that shit
but I don't
I just switch
and I itch in my pants
play my Game Boy Advance
until she finally walked past
I'm at dash
in my crib
what I get on my blog
at trickyspot.com
check it out if you want
that's a steam-blowing team
where I reign supreme
westerns my friends
that I run the message
watch when we need
to mess them off a team
it's a paradise and earth
but in a way it's like a curse
faster than a google search
just sit here and drink
while my roommate flirts
at some party with some hotties
who's all into Fred Durst
it makes my heart burst
and yet I do nothing
just get on the web
and start bitching and fun
nut.com
commotion
whose love life is suffering
it's the rope of the oven
or the hope of our loving
that I'm a light rat
that is a sad fact
shining my tech tubes
crying in red shoes
storm light broke
if you got nowhere to go
I call my mother every day
I say I wanna go home
I am a light rat
that is a sad fact
shining my tech tubes
crying in red shoes
storm light broke
if you got nowhere to go
I call my mother every day
I say I wanna come home