This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, you know what I'm saying?
If you hear this, I want you to bump this and do your dirt, dawg, do your dirt.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs
of you in a fag pose, in your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the
net in my six-fold.
I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable, on the out, my
name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero, in a flash,
I'll screw you on burning dream caps, you need some ISO, let me through my hard drive rifle,
our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught the love bug, I bootlegged
your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, cause CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we
take it by force or we take it nicely.
You feel that rattle in your bones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ
leave you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he
who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to those who set me free, gotta buzz, you're always my cuz, radium, if I could
only say to them, thanks, Kalisto, you know, Utopia, and all my digital dogs, my net dons,
my cyber gangsters, my wire warriors, my computer comrades, this is for you, this is dedicated
to the hackers and the crackers.
I wouldn't be able to do shit without y'all man, I'd be sittin' in front of my fuckin' computer
doin' a goddamn thing, playin' games, y'all made it possible, this is dedicated to you.
Okay, this is Stank Dog, and in case you can't tell, you might notice that I'm actually
standing in the middle of Hurricane Gene, we'll have to excuse the sound, it's a little
rough and there's some wind swirling around me.
Okay, actually I guess we're not really in a hurricane, actually, that was a simulated
hurricane there, by my co-host this week, none other than Lucky Deuce Deuce Cinco.
That's right, Lucky Double Deuce Five.
And Double Deuce, Double D.
That's right.
Got to have the Double D's.
I am not, I am not Double D.
Yes you are, come on.
That's Kevin Rose's little co-host, so please, I do not want to be confused with Double D.
I have a sip of iced tea there now that I've, I just walked back inside from that hurricane.
So, okay.
Okay, anyway, joking aside, let's see, this is episode 64 of Binary Revolution Radio coming
to you, Jet Up 9-28-2004.
Lucky is going to stop blowing into the microphone any second now, and we are going to actually
try to get on with the serious show here.
Now, again, another freaking hurricane aimed right from my front door, so we're recording
this late.
Actually, we're recording this pretty much, by the time we're done, it will be the day
of the show, so it doesn't get much more timely than this, or up to date.
Um, and actually, I'm going to open up with a rant, if I may.
Before, before, before you open up with this rant, I would like to interject.
Go ahead.
Um, you know, I find it real funny, I think.
Oh, no.
Go ahead.
When, you know, a couple months ago, we were having a conversation about, like, why you
lived in Florida, and I'm like, and you're like, well, I'm not going to live in Cali,
because there's earthquakes out there.
And I'm like, you know what?
A hurricane is a lot worse than an earthquake.
You know, oh, we rarely get them.
Well, it's a busy year, what can I tell you?
Hey, I've lived...
No, we rarely get them.
We've only had four this year.
I've been down here seven years or so now.
The longest I've ever lived in one place, actually, I think.
And, um, these two that we've had this year are probably the two worst ones since I've been
down here.
At least as far as I'm concerned, because they directly came right at my, I mean, literally
right at me.
So, um, I haven't really had any problems.
And frankly, they didn't really cause me too many problems.
I mean, I was out without power for a few days.
Um, this second one, I didn't lose power.
My power fluctuated five or six times.
It spiked a couple times, so I had to turn everything off just in case.
I didn't want to blow anything up.
But, um, other than that, my cable and internet stuff went out, um, for maybe 24 hours.
It was back up the next morning, Sunday.
So, um, it really wasn't so bad.
I mean, a little bit of rain, yes, some people got damaged, but me personally, I really didn't,
it was not such a big deal to me.
Yeah, well, I understand that, but you, you lost days from work, didn't you?
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Well, I mean, yeah, your electricity, your, uh, cable internet, all that went out for only
a couple of hours.
But if you can't go to work to make money to pay those bills...
I could pay it either way.
I'll just say, oh, you're on salary, but...
Well...
I'm saying.
I was going to say, you say that like it's a bad thing.
Well...
And actually, it's, it's, um, I, I did have to go in that following weekend to, to work
and make up for some of the time that we lost, so, you know, it all works out.
It's not such a, you know, that's the way it goes.
Life in the big city.
I guess that's the way it goes.
Hey, at least I don't have gangbangers shooting it, crossfire between me, and mud slides,
and earthquakes, and the whole state's going to fall off into the ocean.
The state's not going to fall off into the ocean.
Oh, come on.
Pieces of it, maybe.
Yeah.
The whole state is not just going to float off into the ocean.
The whole state's just going to sink underwater.
It's just going to go sploosh, and then the next thing you know, it's going to be like
Nevada is on the coast or something.
Shut up.
That's right.
Oh, my God.
Sick balls, Chopper.
Sick balls.
Anyway.
My little rant is on this hurricane thing.
See, I heard this on the radio from two or three different companies, two that I can think
of distinctly, and I don't know if I'm going to drop docs on them or not, but I heard these
radio commercials, and I have seen a couple television commercials.
Again, I don't watch a whole lot of TV, but these companies, like, well, one of them's
a furniture store, okay?
This furniture store comes on the radio with this commercial sounding all somber and all,
you know, quiet and stuff about, we're all neighbors in Florida.
The hurricane has ravaged us.
That's why we're bringing in double our inventory so you can save, save, save.
What the hell has that got to do?
They make it like they're doing you some kind of big favor.
Oh, these troubled times, or we're going to increase inventory and give you financing
for two years on our, we're bringing in as much furniture as we can.
I'm sorry.
I don't really see where that's helping a whole lot.
I think furniture is the last thing on someone's mind whose house has been destroyed or something
like that.
Second of all, they're selling furniture and financing it, the same deals they have whether
there's a hurricane or not.
So don't make it sound like you're doing somebody a big freaking favor because you're bringing
in more furniture.
You're trying to get sales.
Let's be honest.
Let's call it what it is.
Yeah.
You know, and a tire company, a tire store saying that they're having sales on all their
tires to help the community.
What the, are you on crack?
Do you think we're dumb?
Hey, those are all-terrain water-resistant tires.
Oh, well, that's, you tell the people that are standing out in front of their house with
their kids crying, with their mobile home in shambles or whatever, that you're going to
have new tires for them.
I'm sure that'll just cheer them right the heck up.
I caught myself on that one.
Write the heck up.
Yeah.
Are you serious?
They're trying to capitalize, trying to sound like they're all sympathetic and, oh, we're
all about the community and blah, blah, generating these sales and making more money under this
false pretense that they're somehow helping the hurricane victims.
Give me a break.
Come on.
If you sold, if they sold stuff at cost, no profit, like somehow we could confirm that,
first of all, they'd lie about that.
If they were selling it at no profit, absolutely, or donate money to victims of the hurricane
or something like that, that would be different.
That I could see.
They're not doing that.
They're having a sale.
They do it every Sunday anyway, and the Sunday ads and stuff, they do it on special occasions
and stuff like that.
To them, a hurricane is nothing but a sales event.
Well, I understand that, and unfortunately, that's how corporate America is.
I mean, in case you weren't aware.
Oh, I'm well aware, but it still makes me mad.
Well, I understand that, but I mean, after September 11th, that was another capitalization
there, too.
Every store, you would see them, they'd hang a flag out, or they'd put a little American
flag on the side of their door.
You know what?
That's just to drag you in, like, oh, well, this store's cool because, you know, they support
America, so we should just shop from them.
Well, I don't know.
Some of that could stem from being pride or something like that, too.
I mean, that one I could see a little bit.
Well, you know what?
Every time I went in the grocery store or something like that, they'd also have plastic flags,
plastic American flags, right up at the, like, right when you're about to, you know,
bring your shopping cart up.
Right, well, that's absolutely...
They have the impulse sales where they got candy and everything, and they'd also have
an American flag.
Well, now, that's absolutely true.
Flag companies were just capitalizing on people's deaths, and that's how I feel about it.
Yeah, that's absolutely true.
I don't know about where you're at, but down here, right, soon thereafter, there were people
out in the corners of the street and the intersections selling flags, literally, out of the back of
their pickup trucks and stuff, on the street corners.
Every time the light would turn red, they would walk down the middle holding up the flag
and a sign that says 10 bucks, 20 bucks, whatever, you know?
So, they were definitely capitalizing on that.
Yeah, you know what?
And I'm just, I'm sorry, but, I mean, I don't have anything against the flag or anything like
that.
I mean, I think it's cool to show your pride.
Right.
I just think that, I just think that they were just capitalizing on people's deaths.
I'm sure some people, I'm sure some people were, a lot of people were, but at the same
time, a lot of people did want to show their pride in some way, so I guess it gave them
an outlet, so there's, it's kind of a give and take, I guess.
But, yeah, I mean, your point is very well taken.
And, yeah, the bottom line is it's all about the Benjamins.
It's all about making that money.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, and this happened also during the Cold War and everything.
They'd have a, you know, you couldn't shop at a store unless they had a certain symbol,
like, in the window, you know?
Otherwise, it might be communist.
I don't know if I ever heard of that one or fell for that one.
Well, go back and read your history.
You'll, you'll see that they missed throughout history.
I mean, sorry, man.
I'm looking to the future.
I don't, history is in the past.
It's all behind me.
I am keeping an eye to the future.
Yeah, well, history repeats itself over and over.
Yeah, right, whatever.
And that, and that's, uh, that's how these capitalist bastards are making their money.
Well, I guess from that we should move.
Oh, no, I have a quick announcement before we move into the email.
Actually, uh, kind of a little early.
We'll remind you later on as it gets closer.
But just a heads up that we will not be airing a show.
This will probably be the first week that we actually miss an episode of Binary Revolution Radio.
We will not air a show on election night.
Which, according to some sources, is November 2nd, the first Tuesday of November.
If I'm, I think, somebody please email me if I'm incorrect about that.
But I believe that's going to be November 2nd, the first Tuesday of November.
Um, Rant Radio is going to be streaming live during the election.
And our show and Quarter Circle Forward, I believe, also, I think the two of us are going to be somewhat preempted, as they say.
So, um, we will probably do a show that week.
But it will be up on the down site, up on the site, downloadable only.
Um, we might work something out to stream on Rant Radio like that Wednesday or something instead of Tuesday.
So, it might be a day delay.
We'll probably still do one.
Because I do kind of like having that streak going where we haven't missed a show.
So, we'll probably still do one.
But the logistics have yet to be worked out.
So, we will announce it officially when we figure that out.
So, when you get preempted, are you going to have to email the program manager?
Actually, he emailed me and requested.
And, uh, said I didn't have to, but he would appreciate it.
So, I thought I'd do the nice thing and say, yes, absolutely.
I'll support the channel.
And then they want to do live election coverage.
I'm absolutely cool with that.
And I am.
So, that's all I have to say about that.
Okay.
Um, there are other things that I do not agree with.
But that's a whole other story.
So, as a matter of fact, I'm going to just go ahead and play our email theme music and segue into the email.
And our first email tonight, actually our only email that we're going to read tonight,
is from a long-time listener, a good friend of Binary Revolution Radio, Pixel Fiend.
Who writes in, um, Stank, just wanted to drop a note of thanks to You and Not Theory for your excellent show a few weeks ago on PBXs and Asterisk.
I have to admit that up until now, I have known exactly nothing about phones, but had been curious about what Asterisk was and how it worked.
Uh, well, let me interrupt for a minute and say, I don't know anything about phones either.
Everything that I know about phones, I learned from Dual Parallel, from the deuce deuce here, Lucky, and Doug, actually, and Decoder.
So, everything I know has been learning from those guys, so you're not alone on that, first of all.
Uh, now back to continue.
I downloaded episode 60 and listened to it at work, listened to it again on the way home, and decided I had to give Asterisk a try.
Another project, dammit.
I had just by chance picked up three old P3 boxes that morning.
I was listening to the show for a third time while I was installing Slack on one of the computer machines, and had the Asterisk source downloaded and installed by midnight.
After working on a problematic sound card and playing with ALSA for a few days, I could say something there, but I'm not going to, ALSA.
So, uh, I got everything up and running and began learning about configuration and setting up the PBX.
I got a VoicePulse account and have been playing with it for about a week.
Now, here's the coolest thing.
Total cost for everything involved was $28, including the VoicePulse connection.
Nice.
That is, that is leet.
How amazing is that to hear a PBX set up for $28?
Uh, and we'll come back to that, as a matter of fact.
Um, one note of caution, and this is, this is also, Pixel Fiend's always really good about giving us something really useful in warnings and heads up about stuff.
Uh, one note of caution for anyone setting this up.
Emails from VoicePulse with directions for connecting asterisks to their service are not quite accurate.
There were subtle changes made for customers connecting after September 1st relating to my underscore device underscore login that are outlined in the sample iax.conf file and extension.conf file, which are available for download from VoicePulse.
Emails sent from VoicePulse have you set up the service the old way, which may cause problems.
If you download the sample comp files and work from them, everything works well.
I still haven't decided what exactly I'll finally do with this project, but it's been a hell of a lot of fun so far.
I have to say that I'm blown away by what you can do with asterisk, and I am too.
I'm learning more every day and have only scratched the surface of the dial plan configuration.
The more I learn, the more elaborate my plans for the dial plan seem to get.
Even my four-year-old was having fun with it, dialing through the menus and listening to the funny messages I'd set up for him.
I'd love to hear a follow-up show for some of the higher-end functionality and scripting possibilities.
Hint, hint.
Now, first of all, $28, dude!
And, okay, now, and this is the thing I want people to realize.
Not Theory and I talked about this.
Not Theory went through details of exactly step-by-step.
And, yeah, we even said you might have to listen to it a couple times and follow along and listen.
But it was true.
I know people think that we come on the show and we're just, you know, I know hackers have this whole thing about,
oh, they're a die-hard Linux and they're all going to defend everything for open source and everything.
You know what?
We do it because it's true.
And here we have a listener who applied what we talked about and can verify that what we said is true.
This person, Pixel Fiend, did exactly what we suggested and got this box up and running.
And someone who admittedly did not have a lot of experience about phones and the phone system,
from that show, got a box up and running, installed and working, with the connection for $28.
You have to give some credit for that.
Yep.
So, mad shouts out to Pixel Fiend for that.
Definitely, man.
Definitely.
And, yeah, that's what we hope to do, not only with that show, but in all of our shows.
Every show that we do, for the most part, we try to structure it in such a way that people can follow along step-by-step.
If it's something that we're talking about, sometimes it's not a how-to like that.
But every topic, we try to go from the very fundamental basics and work our way up through a topic,
or if we are doing a how-to or a demonstration or something like that,
we try to follow and lead you along so that you can listen at home and try things.
You know, that's kind of the way I try to always structure it, at least whenever we can.
No matter what the topic is, I try to keep that flow to it.
But I guess sometimes you swing and you knock it out of the park, and sometimes you drive one foul into the fan.
What can I tell you?
Sometimes you hit a little kid in the front row with a 120-mile-an-hour fastball fouled off.
Anyway, boy, that was a gruesome image.
That was not a very pleasant image.
No, it sure wasn't.
It's a technology show, not a baseball show.
I know, but I came up with a weird metaphor, and I don't know.
What can I tell you?
Sometimes you hit the ball out of the...
No, never mind.
And actually, I did speak to Not Theory about doing a follow-up episode sometime in the future,
so we will work on trying to put that together.
Again, when we're talking this much detail and the how-to stuff like that,
really a lot of work goes into putting a show together like that to keep the flow going
and keep the show filled and not too dry and boring at the same time.
So those are tough.
So sometime in the near future, next month or two, but not right away.
But we have talked about it, and we are planning to do exactly that.
So hopefully by then you'll be able to send us some good information too there, Pixelphine.
You may be well into it by then.
Now, that's all for the email here.
I'm kind of a little under the weather.
I don't know if my voice is sounding like it, but I'm not feeling too well actually.
So I got my nice iced tea here.
So why don't we go into the show and tell,
and I'm going to kick it over to Lucky to start off with personal hacking stories,
what you've been working on lately.
I know you've been published again.
Why don't you talk about that while I have a nice sip of soothing, sweet iced tea.
And I love how you always just put the spotlight right on me with no commentary because you're drinking right now.
What?
I just, what, what, is that a bad thing?
You should have the spotlight on you.
You should be proud to have something published, man.
That's awesome.
That's very cool.
Is that a bad thing?
Yeah, but yes, I have been published.
Media whore.
No, do you know what, joke, you know what, I'm going to stand up right here and defend you, right here on the show.
We say that, I say that to you as a joke, of course you know that.
Other people that say that, I assume we're probably joking too, but you know what, don't hate.
Seriously, don't hate on somebody because they get published or because they get some stuff out there.
You know what, that's, that's petty, that's all that is.
That's just somebody hating because they haven't been published or they haven't gotten accomplished anything.
Stuff like that.
So, I say, I give you a round of applause for getting this published in a very serious magazine, a serious article.
You know, not just a, you know.
This magazine that we're referring to is geared toward business and corporate executives and CEOs and CFOs and people like that.
And, uh, it's a magazine called Vaughn Magazine, which, uh, Vaughn is V-O-N, stands for Voice Over Net.
Uh, I don't believe they have any relationship to Vaughnage.
Are you sure?
Uh, it's, uh, yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Because it sounds like Vaughnage.
I know, everyone thinks Vaughn Magazine has to do with Vaughnage, but, uh...
It's the first three letters of Vaughnage.
I mean, it has to be about Vaughnage.
It's probably made by the same people as Vaughnage.
No, it's, uh, it's created by Pulver, actually.
Uh, you know, the guy, the guy who, uh, who, uh, does Free World Dial-Up.
Uh-huh.
Yes, uh, that, that's who, uh, that's who publishes this magazine.
That's the same guy that makes Vaughnage?
No, he's not the same guy that makes Vaughnage.
Go ahead, I'm just messing with you, go ahead.
Jesus Christ.
Anyways.
But yeah, this magazine's published by Pulver, and, um, I don't know, it's a pretty good magazine.
It talks about Voice Over IP, and where it's going, and the future of it, and, you know, stuff like that.
Stuff that business-y people would read, I guess.
Business-y?
Yeah.
Business-y?
Did you just make up a word?
Business-y people.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, business-y people read this magazine.
You heard it here first.
That's right.
Business-y people freaking the Kizofi.
Kizofi, oh, jeez.
And what was your article, uh, what was your article about?
Well, my article was on Voice Over IP, uh, security.
Basically, just, uh, I just touched on the basics that, uh, that I touched on at DEF CON, you know, caller ID spoofing, revealing blocked caller ID.
Uh, you know, just, uh, you know, just basically things of that nature, and how Voice Over IP is not the culprit in a, in the, in the security flaws.
It's usually the Voice Over IP providers that give the end users too much power, basically.
You know, the power to reveal unblocked, or, you know, to unblock caller, uh, blocked caller ID numbers, and the power to just make your phone number whatever you want.
Uh, that's all, uh, that's all, uh, that's all, uh, the provider is allowing the, the end user to do this, and, uh.
I'm not your typical end user, though.
Yes, regular consumers like you and me.
Hmm.
I mean, Voice?
We're, we're not exactly regular consumers.
I mean, let's be honest here.
Well, no, no, I'm saying Voice Pulse, for example, I mean, they allow you to spoof caller ID through their call screening options.
You don't even need, you don't even need hardware, equipment, or anything.
You do it all through their website.
With a little call forwarding, uh, feature, and you can, uh, spoof your caller ID, it's whatever you want.
And, um, actually, I was going to bring this up, uh, later, but I guess I'll bring it up now.
I was going to talk about this service called IP Call that I heard about recently.
And that's I-P-K-A-L-L.
Call with a K.
Okay, what is that?
Uh, this service allows you to obtain a Seattle, Washington phone number that forwards to your Free World dial-up number.
And, uh, as, uh, as you guys may know, you can use Free World dial-up with the Supera device that, uh, you know, Voice Pulse offers the Supera.
And you can just put Free World dial-up on your second line.
And, uh, basically, anyone who calls the Seattle, Washington number will get forwarded over to your Free World dial-up number.
And whether or not your caller ID is blocked, it'll still show up on the caller ID.
So you can give out the Seattle, Washington number to all your friends.
And whether or not they're blocking caller ID, you'll always see who's calling.
And this is, uh, and this is a free service.
And Free World dial-up is also free, too.
So you don't even have to pay money for this.
That's, um, kind of scary.
Yeah, it's very scary.
I, uh, I just found out about it recently.
Uh, I talked to someone on, uh, on one of the party lines out there.
And they were telling me about this service called IP Call that gives you a phone number in Seattle, Washington.
I just wanted it because I thought it was cool that you could get an actual phone number that redirects to your Free World dial-up extension.
And then I noticed, because we have complete call, we have complete caller ID blocking on our line.
I noticed that when I called up, uh, when I called up the phone number, it still showed my phone number on the caller ID on the incoming call.
I was like, whoa.
Leap.
Um, so do you want to give credit who's somebody who told you that information, or is it on the down low?
Oh, I don't know if they would like their information released or if they're the person who found it.
I just, it was just, the service was mentioned to me.
It's a free service.
It's public information.
So I'll just leave that person, uh, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll grant their privacy at this time.
All right.
Sounds like a plan.
Um, but yeah, man.
And so, I mean, and, and, and, I mean, again, voice over IP is not the culprit here.
It's the service providers that are giving too much power to their end users.
Well, is there such a thing as too much power?
Shouldn't the end user have power and control over the service that they're getting?
Well, I, I suppose.
But I'm just saying, like, like I mentioned in my article, uh, in Vaughn Magazine.
I mean, in 1995, the ACLU, uh, you know, protested against caller ID, you know, because, you know, people shouldn't have their phone number available just because they're placing a phone call.
They should be able to block their number, and that's why they protested it.
And so, after the ACLU protested, the phone companies finally gave in.
The FCC made a mandate that, uh, the phone companies have to offer a service so that you can block your number when, when placing phone calls.
For a fee?
No, for free.
It has, it's regulated.
It has to be for free.
Star 6-7 and complete call block are both free services.
Um, and the thing about it is, is that they said, okay, but for toll-free numbers, you're still, you should, uh, the toll-free numbers should still be able to receive your phone number because they get billed for it.
You know, based on where you're, based on where the call was placed from.
So, the FCC let that slide.
But now, you're calling up regular toll numbers, like this toll number in Seattle.
Right.
It'll ring my free, it'll ring my free world dial-up number, and I'll see your caller ID, whether or not you're blocking it.
And that's sort of, 10 years ago, you know, almost 10 years ago, the ACLU was protesting caller ID for the same reason.
Now, do we know how this happens, or what causes it to work?
Uh, basically, your CPN is transmitted on every single call, whether or not it's blocked.
There's just a little, there's a little tag in the, in the call setup that says, uh, whether or not to reveal the number to the end user.
But services, but VoIP services, such as this IT call, because they use VoIP, it's not, it's not regulated by the FCC.
There's no regulation in VoIP right now.
So, they, they don't have to submit to those rules.
And they can just reveal the CPN right to the end user.
I'm surprised there aren't a lot more of these, is what I'm saying, though.
Well, there are.
I mean, the K7, they got those K7 voicemail boxes, where even if you block your caller ID to the voicemail, it'll still stay in there, you know?
Hmm.
There's all kinds of stuff that's going on, especially, um, uh, IAX providers, uh, you know, some of the IAX providers out there will reveal CPN to the end user.
And you can just pull it up in your asterisk logs.
Well, all the more reason to spoof.
Yeah, right?
All the more reason to spoof.
Well, and my whole point is, why did we even bother with this caller ID technology?
If we're going to be able to spoof it, and we're going to be able to unblock or, you know, unveil private numbers, like, it shouldn't even exist.
It should just be, your phone rings, you answer it, you don't like the person, you hang up.
That's how it's been for, that's how it's been for over a hundred years.
Then somebody said, oh, we should use this for, uh, we should use this great caller ID technology for call screening.
Well, guess what?
Call screening doesn't work.
It never has.
It never will.
Yeah, let's see, what if they implemented this tomorrow?
What are the freaks of the world going to do?
What are they talking about?
We spend so much time figuring these type of things out and researching which ones do this and do that.
And if we just take all those features away, what's left?
Basic phone, that's all you need anyways.
Hmm.
Well, I don't know, it sounds kind of boring to me, but hey, I guess that's, um, an interesting...
You don't have, look, Stink, you don't have caller ID on your landline.
I don't have anything on my landline.
Your phone rings, you pick it up, just like a normal person, right?
Well, I don't know how normal I am, but yeah, I pick it up.
Well, sometimes I'll screen the calls on the answering machine.
Well, there you go.
But yeah, I'll pick it up, I'll say, uh, fuck off, leave me alone if I don't want to talk to you.
Or I'll record the telemarketing calls and put them on the telephonic craptacular.
Or, or I'll answer it and talk to whoever it is.
Yeah, I mean, there you go.
If you want to, if, if you really are having suspicions and you want to screen your calls, use an answer machine, you know?
Right.
I mean, that's the only way, that's the only way you can do it.
Yep.
Sometimes I just ignore it completely, though.
I just unplug the answer machine, I just let the phone ring.
I locked somebody's phone up for about a day and a half yesterday, but that's, yeah, that's not a story for the air.
Oh, God.
You know what I'm talking about, too.
Yeah.
Um, all right, um, I've got a couple things I've been working on the past week, even though, actually, the hurricane gave me to, since I turned my systems off because of the hurricane and stuff, I, um.
Well, uh, you didn't let me go into the, into the rest of my show and tell, though.
Oh, well, go ahead, please, by all means.
Man, you got a lot of show and tell.
That's right.
But I'm also a moderator now on the Lab Mistress Forum.
I got a little forum on there called Telephonic Tappings because people were talking about VoIP and, uh, cell phones and stuff like that.
They didn't know exactly which topic they should put it in, so.
Darcy made me the moderator of the telephony, uh, topic, and, uh, yeah, go check it out.
I only have two rules on that, on that part of the forum.
What?
I have, I have a...
Wait a minute now.
How can, you put rules on your forum?
Tom, didn't you yell at me and tell me that I was stifling free speech because I had rules on my site?
A long time ago.
Did we not get into this and you said what a...
You, you and Tron, I'm a big fascist because I have rules on the site.
Well, actually, you know what?
I didn't want to make any rules, but Darcy actually forced me to make rules.
And do you know why?
Because she cannot deal with the liability issues.
There you go.
So what are your two rules?
I think rule number one was, like, follow the general rule of the forum.
That's kind of a vague rule.
And rule number two was basically, do not, at any means or cost, discuss telecom fraud or specifically how to do it.
Ah, well, that's a good general rule of thumb anyway.
Yeah, I had a rule number three.
Don't mess with the dog pound.
It involved somebody who uses the word kloobie a lot, but Darcy wouldn't let me put that rule.
Okay, gotcha.
Enough said.
A little inside joke, then.
Well, not exactly as inside as you might think.
All right.
Is that all of your media horror?
I mean, is that all of your hacking stories, or did you have something else?
I believe so.
You believe that's the end, or you believe you have something else?
I believe that's it.
I think that's all I've got for right now.
All right.
Well, I have a couple little things.
Um, I, because I had to turn my computers off again with the hurricane and the power fluctuating, I got a little time to get some hardware work done.
And, uh, I was redoing a couple boxes here in the, in the hack center here, here in the lab.
The hack cave, whatever you want to call it.
The lab, the laboratory, huh?
Like lab mystery?
Dude, I got a Dell.
Well, I bought a refurbished Dell.
I bought a refurbished Dell.
I needed a new box to do video editing for Hack TV.
My old box just kept choking, kept dying any time I tried to edit big files.
And these files in raw DV format are, like, enormous.
I mean, uh, uh, an hour, I think, was, like, 15 gigs or somewhere thereabouts, 12 to 15 gigs, I think.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, they get really large, and when you try to edit them, it needs a lot of memory and a lot of CPU power.
And the box I was running, I thought should have been able to handle it.
It was an XP2000, an Athlon XP2000 with 512 of RAM.
It should have been able to handle it, I would think, but it could not.
So, I also had another project I wanted to do, and that was to put together a file server.
Um, I want to put a box together with a bunch of hard drives in it, and I mentioned I bought a terabyte of storage.
I bought another terabyte of storage since then, putting them all into one box.
Going to set up a RAID 5 array and have one central location where all my files are stored and have everything map and connect to that server.
So, I took the old Athlon 2000 box, and I'm going to make that into the file sharing box.
And the Dell that I just got, which is a P4 3 gigahertz, um, is now going to become, eventually, my video editing machine.
So, get Hack TV footage going and flowing again soon.
So, that's kind of what I've been working on.
Um, again, the...
Uh, are we going to film anything, by the way, Sink?
Out of Freaknik?
I'm, I'm sure we're going to do something.
You, you said we're going to do a little field-freaking, right?
Yeah, possibly, possibly.
Do a little field-freaking, and I'm sure we'll come up with some other stuff between now and then.
I'm sure we'll come up with some good impromptu stuff as well.
Yeah.
So, plus it depends on who we run into.
We might have to get some other people involved.
I know there are a couple people we're specifically, uh, going to bump into up there.
So, we'll see how it all works out.
I'm sure we'll get some stuff done.
Because you are confirmed, right?
We're going.
Oh, yeah.
Even though you've made the most asinine plans for the weekend.
Travel plans.
Yeah.
Anyway.
I do what I do.
That's right.
You always have, and you always will.
That's right.
So, yeah, that's it.
I can do what I want.
I do what I want.
Hack TV is moving slowly.
So, yeah.
Oh, and you know what?
On this new box, I figured what the hell I would go ahead.
This is, of course, a Windows box that I do my video editing in.
I say, of course, because that's the only way I know how to do video editing.
And most people I've talked to, no one's ever spoken about doing video editing on anything other than Windows or Mac, which I definitely can't afford that.
So, this box I went ahead and installed Service Pack 2 on.
So, I did not install that on my work machine.
I didn't install that on my other Windows box here at home.
So, I had my first time using Windows XP Service Pack 2.
And it wasn't quite as bad as I had thought.
The other reason I was willing to do it was because it was a fresh install.
It was a fresh Dell box with everything new.
No extra software installed yet, other than the crap that it comes with.
Free AOL six months.
Woo-hoo!
Yippee!
So, once I deleted that stuff and uninstalled that stuff, I went ahead and put Service Pack 2 on, knowing that it wouldn't break anything because there's nothing there to break.
So, I did.
And it actually has, you know, it's a step in the right direction.
It has some features on it.
It more tightly integrates the firewall.
It adds some integration.
It looks like it did not work too well with Norton Antivirus.
I believe the Dell system came with a free three months or six months of Norton Antivirus subscription.
It didn't integrate with that too well.
But it looks like it was made or designed to try to integrate with your antivirus vendor and tie it in so that it will automate the scans and it will monitor and watch scanning and stuff like that.
So, it looks like it's a step in the right direction.
It's trying some new things.
However, again, it doesn't, if it's really breaking software like we've seen so many reports of, it's, that's not cool.
So, even with the good things that it added and, again, a step in the right direction, it still looks like it's fallen a little bit short.
And most companies still are not rolling that out yet.
Most of them are still holding off until they've, you know, done the research.
Apparently, there's a list, there are lists out there, I should say plural, of software packages with known problems, known bugs with Service Pack 2.
And where I work, we have a very, very wide variety of software in play at any given time.
So, until they can go through and figure out which software is going to be affected, whether there are upgrades to it, what they can do to fix them, et cetera, et cetera, they're just not going to deploy Service Pack 2 until it's safe to do so.
And that's what a lot of companies are doing.
So, other than that, I did some reading this weekend as well.
Well, I read through Ilanka's Cryptos presentation, actually from DEFCON 12, I believe it was.
Did you sit in on that?
Did you, um...
What, are you kidding me?
Did you make any presentations other than your own?
No.
No, you noob.
Well, it was very, very interesting.
She had her slideshow up and I went through her entire slideshow.
Very, very interesting stuff.
Lots of cool pictures.
There's something I've been meaning to read up on for a while.
Anyway, Cryptos Project, just really, really an interesting read.
I can't recommend it enough.
If you go to ilanka.com, E-L-O-N-K-A, you can find the presentation as well as a lot of other stuff that she's been working on, some cool projects.
And I finished a presentation, I actually did this late last night, I finished a presentation for my 2600 meeting.
It's going to be a short presentation of possibly a longer presentation.
I'm hoping to present at some upcoming conference.
I haven't decided when or where yet.
So, it may even end up at Freaknik if they need a fill-in or something or somebody can't make it.
I'll be prepared maybe to fill in there with it.
But, I don't know if I'll have that, the long version done by then.
But anyway, short presentation for my 2600 meeting.
Give it a kind of a trial and have some people start demoing our new project.
And that's been about it for me.
Obviously, mention the 2600 meeting, they're coming up this Friday.
I'm going to have to retract, actually, on one of my statements there, dog.
Uh-oh, what are we retracting?
It is a 10-1 presentation on voice over IP.
Okay, besides your own.
The Netsaphone one on restructuring a voice over IP conversation.
Uh-huh.
You didn't go to the civil disobedience or whatever it was?
No.
I saw that.
I did see that presentation.
I downloaded the video.
Yes, I did as well.
And that was fun.
That was funny.
That was a good...
Yeah, I'll just leave it at that.
That was interesting.
Very interesting.
Interesting.
That's the word for it.
Yes.
Interesting.
The...
Yeah.
Anyway, let's move on.
Oh, what a terrible time to segue into this topic, also.
God, what a terrible segue into today's topic, which is internet crime.
From civil electronic disobedience or whatever the hell he called it.
Internet crime.
I actually had this story sent to me from M2Mike, long-time friend of the show.
Sent me an interesting email after he listened to our episode with Sub-Zero and I a few weeks ago on cyber law.
And we were talking about jurisdiction and we were talking about jurisdiction and that he thought about us, sent us this article, you know, thinking about jurisdiction.
And what this was, what this is, I guess I should say, is it's from the AP Press and it's about, it's a report about a meeting that is going on, I guess it was going on now in past tense.
It's a three-day Council of Europe meeting in Strasbourg, France, to get governments worldwide to accelerate ratification of the Council's 2001 Cybercrime Convention, the first international treaty to combat internet crimes.
And, apparently, it has a lot of support from several countries.
One person said, quote,
While fraud and copyright infringements account for most internet crimes, my main concern would be a terrorist attack on computer systems that control power plants or financial institutions.
He said there is an impossibility in enforcing national laws on crimes committed on the internet.
Gee, no shit, Sherlock!
Have we been saying that from episode one on this show?
That it's impossible to do that?
That's exactly what I say how many times that the internet is global, the global interweb, we say that joke?
You can't go across, you know, it's hard enough going across states finding stuff sometimes.
But cross country, you can't enforce laws from one country on another one.
Especially when they may be completely polar opposites of each other.
I mean, it's just a ridiculous notion.
However, however, the fact that he acknowledges that is a cool thing to me.
I really think that's good.
Yeah.
Maybe they'll actually make some strides, make some differences and changes in an intelligent way to defend against fraud, which, you know, again, has nothing to do with hacking completely two separate subjects.
You know, fraud is illegal and not condoned or endorsed by Binary Revolution Radio, okay?
So, I think it's cool that they're going to try to come up with a way to defend against fraud, however, not infringing on our civil liberties, which is unfortunately the problem that they're doing now.
Well, every time they pass one of these laws, they take away more of our rights.
And that's the problem in the United States, anyway.
Passing these global things like this Patriot Act and DMCA and taking away fair use, taking away, you know, consumer rights and stuff like that.
So, hopefully, this doesn't turn into a global DMCA, which would be scary.
Hopefully, they'll do this in an intelligent way and work together to come up with a compromise using other countries' morals and values and beliefs merging with ours.
Maybe they'll actually bring us down to reality somewhat.
You think, is that totally naive?
Is that unrealistic to believe that?
Probably.
You know, Bush has 57% support right now.
Well, Kerry only has 38%.
How about Nader?
I haven't looked at that factor yet.
God, I wish we didn't have a two-party system.
But, hey, don't turn this political.
This is not a political show.
This is a tech show.
We're going back into this, damn it.
Even though this is loosely tech-related, you know,
but there is because there's some statistics coming up and long-time listeners know I'm a bit of a statistics nut.
But, what was I saying?
Oh, yeah.
See, the thing, I think that the simple fact that they acknowledge that there's a problem,
isn't that like Alcoholics Anonymous or one of those 12-step programs or something?
The first step is acknowledging that you have a problem.
You know, that's the first step.
And the United States doesn't do that very well.
They've never acknowledged it.
They just think they're going to take control and just lay down this iron fist,
lay down the law,
and not understand the problem in an intelligent way.
So, I am hopeful for this.
I am hopeful that they will do the right thing.
Maybe, maybe naively so, I admit.
But, now, as I clear my throat on the air, which is bad radio,
some statistics from this council that I wanted to talk about.
Let me see how I am on time here.
Yeah, I think we're all right.
I want to go through as many of these statistics as I can and talk about some of them
because I found them interesting and I hope some others do as well.
The first one says,
In Germany, internet crimes account for 1.3% of all recorded crimes.
Okay?
Internet crimes are only 1.3% of all recorded crimes in Germany.
But, they account for 57% or $8.3 billion of material damage caused by the crime.
Only 1.3% of them are actually, quote, internet crimes.
But, they account for well over half of material damage.
Now, how does that work?
See, the first thing, anytime I see numbers like this,
and this is just something, I don't know if it's with experience or common sense,
but anytime you see numbers drop like this,
the first thing you've got to ask is,
how did you come up with this number?
How were these numbers derived?
What is the formula?
What's the equation?
How did you arrive at these numbers?
You know, what is the definition of material damage?
Who defines material damage?
One person's definition may be different than someone else's.
Does the company define it?
Does the government define it?
I think if we have a jury of our peers,
that the jury of our peers should define what it is.
You know, because the government's going to come up and make up a number like,
oh, I don't know, say, $250,000 worth of damage to do something.
When a jury of our peers, people who know how the system works,
tech people who realize that it doesn't cost a quarter of a million dollars
to say, change passwords or something like that,
we know that it only takes, oh, three days, a few dollars,
you know, however much you want to pay salary for people.
Let's call it $20,000 at the most and be honest.
You smell what I'm cooking here?
Where have I heard a story like that before, Stank?
That's what I'm saying.
When you drop numbers like this,
it's very important to define or to know what the definition of those numbers is.
And unfortunately, they do not give us that.
Simply saying that 1.3 of all crimes are Internet crimes,
but they account for over half of it tells me
that there's probably some exaggeration going on in those numbers.
And this is in Germany, not the United States.
The United States, we know it.
We talk about it all the time.
We see it.
But I guess that's something that is global,
that is worldwide, that is universal.
So that's a little scary.
Am I way off on that?
I mean, are you with me on this or what?
Yeah, I'm with you on that, definitely.
Right?
Yeah, that's a little outrageous to be over 50% of the damage is caused by Internet,
but only 1%.
Yeah, and their exact phrase is material damage.
Now, what material damage?
I mean, did somebody break a window?
That's material damage, right?
What's material damage?
I mean, that's a strange word to use, first of all, material damage.
I'm sitting here trying to think of how they could possibly define it,
and I can't think of anything.
It must be such a global, everything must fall under material damage.
Yeah, I mean, RMRFing a drive, I mean, I guess that's material damage,
and I guess if software or whatever the data was stored on that drive has a certain value, I guess.
Yeah, but I guess, again, if their focus is and should be, hopefully, hopefully it is, fraud.
Let's say that, you know, what is it, eBay,
and people that are selling merchandise that's either stolen or nonexistent or pirated
or just illegal or whatever, and they're being busted for fraud.
Maybe every time they do that, they add the value of the merchandise as part of the material damage.
Could that be what drives the number up so much?
Well, yeah, that very well could be,
and there are a lot of eBay scammers going on right now that hijack into eBay accounts,
and, you know, you'll see this a lot on eBay when you try and look for something really expensive,
and you see it at a nice, cheap price,
and then you go and you look in the description, and it says,
if you have any questions, please do not use the contact seller option.
I cannot currently get into my email address.
Email me here.
Yeah, that's not, actually, that's kind of a good segue into the next statistic they dropped,
and not so much a statistic, it's just a statement.
It said,
a fast-rising crime worldwide is phishing.
Emails that appear to be from banks and other financial institutions
asking customers for their credit card details.
Sound familiar?
Ascidus, myself, we talked about this on the show recently,
phishing, what it is,
very low entry, low barriers to entry in the phishing market.
Anybody can make up a phishing email and send it out to people.
But that is on the rise,
so very timely that we talked about that.
Now this one,
I'm curious to hear what you have to say about this one.
Websites promoting racism, hatred, and violence have risen 300% since 2000.
That's supposed to say, a typo on my part.
Since 2000.
Most are hosted in the United States,
but many may originate in Europe.
Now I'm curious what your reaction to that is.
What do you want my reaction to be?
I mean...
I don't, it doesn't matter what I want it to be.
I want to know,
okay, let me just come out and say.
Well, what do you expect?
I'm sorry?
What do you expect?
I mean,
I don't promote racism,
but I'm not against these people
having their own sight
and promoting their own free speech.
And that's exactly what I wanted to hear you say.
That's exactly the way I feel.
Exactly the way I feel about it.
I wanted to know if you were going to say the same thing.
That's what I was looking for.
Yeah, I mean,
it's just one person's views or opinions,
and if they want to promote it
or give their insight on how they feel,
then by all means, go ahead.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's so important that like...
And again, don't get me wrong.
We're not condoning the hatred
or the messages of some of these sites
in any way, shape, or form.
But I acknowledge their right
to be that way.
They have a right to free speech,
and that's why there's so many of them
in the United States.
It's because we do have a right
to free speech here.
You know, that is one of our greatest freedoms,
the right to free speech.
And the simple fact that
this is some kind of negative,
or it's included in statistics
with other negative topics
like fraud and cyber crime,
there's no crime here.
I don't know why this is even related.
How is somebody
exercising their free speech,
whether you agree with it or not,
exercising their right to free speech,
how is that somehow
even remotely related to cyber crime?
That's what I didn't like.
This is the biggest thing about the article
that I did not like reading.
Yeah.
You know, that's ridiculous.
I mean, that's in the same basket
as if they had made some statistics
saying like,
oh, well, websites promoting hacking
and, you know,
stuff like that has risen 300%.
Right, right.
I mean, it's,
they're just,
I mean, all I can,
all I want to say to that is,
so?
Yeah, yeah,
that's exactly how I felt.
That's why I was like,
what do you want me to say to that?
I mean,
that was my reaction.
So?
Exactly.
I know what you mean.
But you know what?
The thing is,
I really,
it just frustrates me that
people have a problem
where they think that
because someone has a message
or an idea
or a thought process
that's different from their own,
that they are automatically wrong
and they do not
or should not have a right to say it.
Let's ban it.
Let's ban everything.
That's our,
that's our way in this country lately.
Oh, he might be a terrorist.
Let's pass laws to ban that.
Oh, we can't let him fly.
Let's pass a law against that.
Oh, no, you can't do this.
Oh, no,
we're not going to allow you
to have that freedom.
Oh, you're not allowed to talk on this.
Oh, you can't say these words
on the airwaves anymore.
You can't,
yeah, let's just keep banning stuff
until we run out of stuff to ban.
That's real fucking brilliant.
Wow, I didn't,
I don't know where that one came from.
I, I got worked up
and didn't even know,
I didn't feel that one coming.
That came out of nowhere.
But I,
because I feel strongly about that.
Seriously, what is,
Oh.
I totally,
I totally agree with you, Stank.
Burn the book,
brown,
brown shirt.
I need some me time now.
I need some quiet time,
calm down time.
Oh,
but you know what?
I, I am,
I am going to take this opportunity
to,
I,
we'll,
we'll wrap up that topic.
There were some other things
in there that stood out.
Some other things
that were interesting.
I read the ones
that really stood out
that I really wanted
to emphasize out of it.
There were several other statistics
and you can search
through the AP Press
if you want to find this cyber crime.
And where was it?
S-T-R-A-S-B-O-U-R-G
Strasbourg, France.
Probably search with just that
you'll find it.
I mean,
what the hell else goes on
in Strasbourg, France anyway?
Sorry if I offended anybody
in Strasbourg, France,
but you know what?
Go eat some french fries
or something.
Um,
anyway.
I don't know.
I'm just being funny.
Shut up.
I'm sure they're,
I'm sure they're cities
at least bigger than Glossy.
Yeah,
well,
you may be right.
Um,
but,
you know,
I said this a minute ago,
um,
and I'm going to say it again.
I don't know if this is crossing
a line to corny
or tacky
or whatever,
but I just want to say that
since we are on this topic
of cyber crime
and we're talking about
what's right
and what's wrong
and what should be
and shouldn't be,
et cetera,
the bottom line is
a crime is a crime.
Okay?
There are certain things
that are universally
not condoned
even by the hacker community.
I know we're an interesting
group of people
and we do have
our own set of ethics
and our ethics
sometimes do not coincide
with what the government,
the United States government,
wants our ethics to be.
They do not always coincide.
And that,
you know what,
that's the case
with every single human being
on the face of the planet Earth,
frankly.
So,
that being said,
I myself
and the DDP in general
do not promote
or condone
crime of any kind.
Never have,
never will.
Absolutely not.
You commit fraud,
identity theft,
things like that,
this is a universal crime.
If you are stealing money
from an old lady,
if you are trying to sell
a laptop on eBay,
getting someone's money
and then not delivering
the merchandise,
that's fraud.
If you steal somebody's
credit card numbers
and buy things with them,
that is a crime.
It has nothing to do
with hacking.
I hate hackers
getting tied to that.
Hackers steal your credit cards.
Hackers committing fraud,
identity theft.
No, we're not.
Thieves are.
And I know we've said that a lot
and I'm not going to go
into a big soapbox,
but I wanted to come out
and just say that officially.
If you do these kind of things,
you are going to get punished.
You deserve to get punished.
Some sort,
some sort of punishment.
Now,
the level
and severity
of that punishment
is a whole other topic.
Okay,
but there is,
you are going to get
repercussions
for the things
that you do in life.
And when you commit crimes,
you can expect
to do the time
to use a cliche.
But,
if you do,
you know,
there are some crimes
that,
like I said,
the hacker community
doesn't exactly see eye to eye
with other people's morals
and other people's ethics.
If you dial a phone number,
for example,
even whether it's
in rapid succession,
automated,
or something like that,
that to me
is not necessarily a crime.
Some states
or governments
or whatever
may view that as a crime,
but to me,
that's an educational pursuit.
That's not a crime.
That's learning
how things work.
That's figuring out patterns.
That's trying to learn
the system.
Because Lord knows
you're not going to learn
the system from any textbooks.
They don't make books
on that kind of subject.
You want to find out
how your phone system works?
You have to figure
that stuff out yourself.
You're going to have to
do a little freaking.
Can I get an amen?
Amen, brother.
You have to do
a little freaking.
You know,
if you don't cause damage,
if there's no damage caused,
nothing gets stolen,
nobody gets hurt,
it's an educational pursuit.
Where's the crime there?
The crime of knowledge?
That's a crime now?
Knowledge is a crime?
You know what the crime is,
Stink?
You woke up some lady
who all she does
is she goes down
to the welfare office
and collects her check
once a week,
and she sleeps
during the day
and now you woke her up
because you were dialing
every number in a prefix
and she didn't like it.
Well, boo fucking who?
Take her phone off the hook.
Yeah, right.
She doesn't like it
like we said earlier.
If you get a call,
you pick it up,
you say hello,
you don't like what you hear,
you hang the fuck up.
That simple.
Yeah.
Especially when you're doing
these, you know,
the example I was using earlier,
war dialing,
I was alluding to.
You call it once
and you're done anyway.
You're not going to call back.
You wanted to see
what answered
or who answered
or if anybody answered.
So it's just finding
how much stuff's out there.
It's a statistical analysis.
How many phones
have computers on them,
fax machines,
et cetera, et cetera.
You know?
Now, don't get me wrong,
there's a fine line.
If you do something
with that number subsequently,
if you commit a crime later
with information you've found
anywhere,
in any way,
shape,
or form,
that's a whole different area.
That's crossing a line.
If you commit a crime,
yes.
But the act
of gathering knowledge
and learning
should not be criminalized.
And it's a sad,
sad thing that it is.
That they're trying
to make knowledge
a crime.
And
it just makes me
want to cry.
I can't calm down.
I'm getting verklapped.
Now, that's the thing.
Law enforcement
can't distinguish
where that line is.
That's the biggest problem.
People don't get us
as hackers.
People don't get
our mindset.
And unfortunately,
the people
are in charge.
The people are the ones
that are,
the people are the ones
electing officials.
The people are the,
are the man,
you know,
passing these laws
against stuff like this.
in their ignorant way,
not knowing
or understanding
what it's all about.
And that's the biggest problem
is that law enforcement
and our government
can't distinguish
where that line is.
But you know what?
Some hackers can't
distinguish that line either.
You know,
some hackers cross the line
or at least they straddle
that line.
We come close
to the line sometimes.
So it's a two-way street.
Don't,
you know,
I'm not sitting here
saying it's all
law enforcement's problem
and that we should all
be able to do
whatever we want
because it's on a computer
in the interweb
and therefore we can do
all that.
No,
that's not the case either.
I'm just saying
that if you're going
to pass laws,
make acts
and stuff like that.
What's that?
And some people,
they sometimes
get a little bit greedy
and they start committing crimes
but you know what?
That's on them.
That's right.
That's absolutely right.
And,
you know,
and that leads
to the last point
which again,
this could turn
into a whole other
discussion and analysis.
When you pass these laws
and make these acts,
I was getting saying
consider the nature
of the action
very closely.
Was anybody hurt?
What was the danger?
What was the crime?
Was damage caused?
Things like that.
Okay?
And look at it
more open-mindedly
and closely
and when you pass
these things,
don't make them
so hardcore.
You know,
the punishment
should fit the crime.
You know?
That's the other thing.
If somebody's,
you know,
oh,
somebody dialed you
and woke you up
in the middle
of the daytime,
big deal.
We've got drug dealers
that go out in the street,
you know,
days after they've been arrested.
That punishment
doesn't fit that crime.
Of course,
that's my opinion.
I'm sure there's people
out there that disagree
with that.
The druggies out there,
I guess.
But,
there are certain crimes
where it doesn't fit
and for some reason
they lump us hackers
in with terrorists
which is the biggest
misconception ever.
Ever.
And,
they try to
throw the book at us
and be all,
you know,
authoritative
and,
oh no,
you can't know more
than I do.
We're going to throw you
in prison for 40 years
and you can't touch
a computer ever again.
Okay.
Meanwhile,
I think the message
you're sending here
is that I could sell drugs
and be out in a week.
Is that the message
that we're getting?
in here?
Yep.
And,
you're sending these,
these poor little ones,
I mean,
I don't mean to be
stereotypical,
but these like,
white skinny kid hackers
in prison.
I don't know if that's,
that's somewhat stereotypical,
but,
I mean,
it's probably statistically true,
let's be honest.
I'm just,
I'm just saying,
I mean,
if you're into technology
and stuff,
you probably don't spend
most of your time
on the streets
and you're probably
not one who's going
to want to fight people,
so if you get thrown
in prison,
you got a bunch of,
yeah,
well,
federal,
yeah,
but I'm talking about
like a state prison
for some local crime
or something.
If you get thrown
into prison
for something like this
and you gotta,
and you're in there
with like,
with violent,
violent criminals,
you know,
rapists and stuff
like that,
you know,
the way you're gonna
make friends
with these guys
is you're gonna have
to just sell them
information so that
when they get out
they can commit
these type of crimes.
Yeah,
you know,
and that's,
I know you're saying
this is a joke,
but that's a damn shame
that to mention us
in the same category
with pedophiles
and murderers
and stuff like that.
that's just so wrong.
And the sad part is
that those people
will probably end up
getting out of jail
before you will.
Yeah,
that's so wrong.
That's just,
that's just sad.
That's just sad
and pathetic.
Yeah.
Well,
let's end the show
on sad and pathetic,
shall we?
They're gonna survive
in there.
You're gonna have to,
you're gonna have to
give them something.
Don't go,
please,
don't go any further.
Please don't go
any further with that.
Oh,
man.
If you don't give it to them,
they're gonna take it.
Oh,
no,
stop,
back up,
back up.
Go to my happy place,
go to my happy place.
I got a couple quick links
I want to drop here
just because I've had them
in the show notes
for a while
because I mentioned earlier
the FCC,
I mentioned a little thing
about telling us
what we can and can't say
on the airwaves
and how they've got control
and ban this
and ban that
and free speech
and yada yada.
There's a couple links here
that I've been meaning to mention.
The FCC,
right.
There's a site to fight
the FCC
some,
you know,
somewhat for whatever
that means.
It's called
saveradionow.org
personally,
again,
I mean,
I've said this before,
I prefer to stay on
internet radio,
fuck the FCC,
you know,
if they want to stop me
from saying fuck,
fuck,
fuckity,
fuck,
bring your fight to me,
bitches.
I'm right here.
Bring that shit to me.
I don't have to play
your game anymore.
We have the internet.
We beat you.
We have a way
around your system.
Fuck you.
Just thought I'd get
that out there.
That's going to get bleeped
off in the radio version.
And that site
actually is the main,
but it'll link to
something called
the FCC quiz.
And it links off
of Save Radio Now,
but the direct link
to it,
if you want to go to it,
is jacobsmedia.com,
J-A-C-O-B-S-M-E-D-I-A
dot com slash
iqtest.htm.
Or again,
go to
saveradionow.org
and just click
through to it.
I think the link
is still there.
And basically,
it's a quiz
that says,
it gives you
some scenarios
and says,
what can
and can't they do.
And it gives you
some scenario.
What if you say this?
What if you're having
a call-in prize show
and you tell somebody
they won $100
and they say,
holy shit,
I won $100?
Can you get in trouble
for that?
And it has a bunch
of scenarios
of things like that.
And the results
are kind of interesting.
Very interesting.
So,
that's it
for the show
this week.
Shout-outs.
I told you
you could go first,
so go ahead.
Okay,
I want to give
my shout-outs first
to my main dog,
Dual Parallel.
I can't believe
you were dissing him
earlier before the show.
I was not.
I was on the phone
with my home dog.
Whatever, man.
I heard you saying
some foul stuff
about Dual.
Yeah,
because we roll
like that, though.
Oh, God,
you did not bark.
Yes, I did.
That's my dog,
because we can
roll like that.
And,
I want to give
my other shout-outs
out to Doug,
Decoder,
and Not Theory.
My homeboys
right there.
Gotcha.
Yeah,
that's all the
shout-outs for this
week.
What about you?
Well,
the same.
Of course,
I backed those up
completely.
All my digital dogs.
And,
just a funny little
site I found
made me laugh.
I give shout-outs
to illwillpress.com.
They have a cartoon
with Foamy
as the main character,
and it's hilarious.
Go to illwillpress.com.
You'll be laughing
for a while
from that one.
Sarcastic little squirrel
that kind of reminds me
of me,
I guess,
in a way.
So,
shout-outs to them.
A reminder,
this Friday,
2600 meetings.
Go to your local
2600 meeting,
DEFCON meeting,
whatever you call
your hackers meeting,
whatever it happens
to be,
go to it this Friday,
first Friday of the month.
So,
your October meeting
is coming up this week.
Email us for
feedback,
radio at
binrev.com.
If you want to
tell us to
whatever.
Anyway,
feedback of any kind,
send it to radio
at binrev.com.
Our closing music
this week
is a track called
Dirtbag
in the Vacuum
Remix.
It's a song
from Brad Sucks
that was
remixed
by Heuristics,
Inc.
Kind of a
different spin
on a song
of his.
And,
I like it a lot,
so we're going to
close with that.
And,
to the double deuce,
thank you for being
on the show.
As always,
it was fun.
Very off the cuff
and stuff that
definitely was
unscripted.
That's definitely
true.
As usual,
and you know what?
Sometimes it's good
radio,
sometimes it's bad
radio,
but,
either way,
we'll try to
do it again next week.
Same hack time.
Same hack channel.
Peace.
The End
Transcription by CastingWords
CastingWords