This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs of you in a fag poem
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a Nero
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream packs
You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ, leave your fight on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
And we are back once again this week with Binary Revolution Radio
I am StankDawg and this is episode 67
Coming to you on, let's see, what month is this?
October 17th, 2004
That's our original air date
And I have a new co-host on the show this week
Who's actually a pretty good friend of mine
We've dealt with quite a few things in the past
El Diablo, welcome to the show
Hey, thank you very much
What's up to everybody?
Yep, and we got actually a very interesting topic
Something we've talked about before
For our main topic later on
But before we get to that
You know, we have our little format
I go through my housekeeping at the beginning
So let me just drop a couple things here off the bat
First of all, this is going to be the last episode before Freaknik
Freaknik, gosh, is it 8?
I think it's 8
Yep, 8 it is
Yeah, I think it's Freaknik, 8, wow
Can you believe they've had 8 of these things
So, yeah, this is going to be the last show before Freaknik
And I will be in Nashville, Tennessee for Freaknik the whole weekend
Actually Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday
So, boy, next week's show is going to be on little or no sleep
I don't know
I can't make any promises or guarantees on the quality of next week's show
That's for sure
But this one's going to be good
We'll make up for it with this one
But if you're going to Freaknik
I actually volunteered a while back
And I confirmed I'm going to be working at the registration desk
Up at the front registration desk
From 10 till 12 in the morning
Friday morning before the con starts
Getting people signed up and registered
So, make sure you stop by and say hi
Of course, you really don't have a choice, do you?
If you're going to register and get in
I guess you're going to have to pass by me
Anyway, yeah, so seriously
Stop by, say hi 10 to 12
And then 12 o'clock is when the con starts
So I'm going to make a beeline upstairs
To hear the opening statements, introduction
And start with some really, really cool presentations
I'm looking forward to it
Now, you're not going to be able to make it, is that right?
No, unfortunately I can't make it, man
I wish I could
Man, let's see
That's happened to a lot of people, man
Work kind of overlaps sometimes
But, hey, you do what you got to do, right?
Yeah, what's that old saying?
Work sucks
Yeah, that's
I don't know how old that is
But it's a classic, that's for sure
That's a universal truth, I think is what they call that
That's what it is
Okay, what else do we have for
Oh, I also wanted to give shouts early here
Give thanks to a new show notes writer that we have
Joe, who I know is a very good guy
He's going to take over writing show notes
Or he's going to try as best he can
Again, we all have our hands tied with work and time and stuff
So Joe's written a couple sections of notes
For some of the past episodes
Other people have tried, you know
Come up with one or two here or there
But they weren't able to come up with the rest of them
For whatever reason, you know
Again, real life takes over, no big deal
So Joe's going to work on it for a little while
And like I said, I've already got a couple up there
So far, so good
And believe me, I know people get frustrated
With the show not having any notes
Because you only want to listen to the ones
Some people, that is
Only want to listen to the ones that have
Topics of interest to them
And you know what, I can't blame them for that
I'm the same way
So I get frustrated when I can't find show notes
Hell, on my own show, for crying out loud
I'm like, which show did I talk about that on?
I want to go back and find it
And I don't even have my own show notes
So I get frustrated with that as well
So thank you to Joe
For helping out with some of these
And as fast as he get them to me
I'm trying to get them up as quick as I can
I have to go through them a little bit afterwards
Just to add the URLs and stuff like that
So I'm putting them up as fast as he sends them to me
So thanks to him
And that's it for the general housekeeping
Now let's, oh wait a minute
We have email theme music here
Let me play this before we go to the email
Okay, and now
Our first email this week
Comes from
Actually, I think all of our email this week
Comes from people's real names
That I've blocked out
Just in case
Just to play it safe
Because you know
Not everybody's out there
And the first one
Comes from
A real name with Held
Number one
Who says
Stank dog
I subscribe to 2600 mag
And I love it
So when I saw your site
And started to listen to your shows
I was hooked
I listen to you and your co-hosts
Every week
At home or at work
BinRev has become my church
Yeah
But I have wanted to drop you a line
About your mags that I ordered
They were delivered fast
And they look great
I ordered all three issues
And I have to say
You and your crew
Have done an outstanding job
I can't wait until the next issue is out
Hallelujah
Welcome to the church
And you know
And actually this is
First of all
Thank you for the kind words
I say that all the time
And I do appreciate it
But the reason I wanted to read this on the air
Is because
I wanted to show people
That BinRev and 2600 can coexist
You know
That's the thing
That sometimes we get an email about
You know
Competing with 2600
Or you're not as good as 2600
Or you're better than 2600
You know what
They're two different entities
You know
I write for 2600
You know
I'm an official writer for 2600
I write for Blacklisted 411
I write BinRev
Etc etc
They all can coexist
It's not like a competition thing to me
And I've said before
I want as much information
As I can get my hands on
So I look at this
As just another source
Another outlet
Another alternative
Absolutely
You know
And you know what
This is a good
You and I have talked about this
Offline before
But it's kind of like the idea of
The DEFCON meeting
Or the 2600 meeting
Absolutely
No
It doesn't have to be an or situation
Why can't it be both
Yeah
It's all good
Why is there any
It's the scene of football game
Or anything
This is an information
It's a collaboration
You know
People coming together
To talk about different things
Related to the information
We're interested in
So
You know
What difference does it make
You know
2600
DEFCON
Hey
The point is
Get out there
The point is
Collaborate
The point is
Learn
You know
Yeah exactly
And some places I know
Have
I mean
It runs the gamut
Some places
They're diametrically opposed
The DEFCON people
Hate the 2600 people
And vice versa
Which I think is just bizarre
But hey
Whatever
That's me
I know other places
Like I believe Phoenix
For example
I think what they have done
Is kind of joined
One big meeting
They call it the DEFCON
Slash 2600
Slash whatever meeting
It's just a hackers meeting
And all of them
Kind of come together
Because I guess
There was a
I guess
They weren't sure
Where some wanted to meet
In one place
And some in another
And it ended up
They just all got together
And it's a lot of
The same crowd
And
Yeah it's
You know
That's why
You know
It was brought up
On the last show
About bin rev meetings
It's like
I don't really know
Why we should
You know
If people want to do that
And add that name to it
I mean I'm honored
I think that's great
But
Just meet with other hackers
And call it
You know
I don't care if you call it
You know
Fish in a bucket meeting
I don't
As long as you can
Get together with people
And talk about hacking
You know
That's all
That's what it's all about
That's all you gotta do
Yeah that is the point
So
Yeah so
Yeah and
Also
Every time somebody
Mentions about the magazine
And how good the magazine looks
Or how much they like the magazine
I've got
I absolutely have to stand back
And just pimp Logan 5 again
Logan 5 is the man
He is completely
And when I say completely
I mean 100%
Totally responsible
For the way that the magazine looks
Cover to cover
Inside and out
Layout
Design
It's all
Logan 5
If it wasn't for him
And you guys relied on me to do it
You'd have pure ASCII text
With a bunch of retarded stick figures mixed in
Much respect to Logan 5
Exactly
And you know what
There's nothing wrong with the all text thing too
If you're going to do an online zine
But yeah
For the printed thing
He's
I mean he's got the skills man
Really
Absolutely
Phenomenal
And
Yeah and
Since we are now your church
You can go ahead and expect
We're going to send you an offering plate
Any day now
So just go ahead and fill it up
With all your loose bills
And
You know what
Even your non-loose bills
Loosen some up
Send us in
We're working on the theme music
Yeah
Okay
Hallelujah
Now I can't do that voice for the whole show
I think I'd
End up blowing out my larynx or something
Yeah
It'd be interesting man
Come on
Just one show
Oh
I don't know
Let me see
Let me see if I can pull this off
Alright
We have our second email
I can't do it
My throat's going to
Hold on
I need a drink now
And now
The reverend
Don't make me laugh
When I'm drinking
I almost spit iced tea
All over the place
Okay
The second email
From real name withheld
Number two
He says
Hey all
Just shooting you an email
To tell you that
You make my work days
Go by
So much better
I live in Canada
And I work at the
Best Buy rebate processing center
Yikes
I hope I'm supposed to read that
No he sent it to the radio
I think that's okay to read that
He's withheld anyway man
Yeah
I guess that's true
Yeah
If you've ever sent a rebate
Away from Best Buy
It came our way
So that's
Yeah
The Best Buy
Rebate processing center
And since they let us
Listen to music
While we work
I've been listening
To your program
As well as other
Like minded ones
RFA
Default
Games and more
Entertainment radio
It's Gamer Radio
Of course
Good friends
Of RC4
I have to say
That I like your program
Best of them all
The personalities
Really come through
And I feel more of a
Connection with this show
I just ordered your magazines
And I'll expect
They'll be just as good
Thanks for making
My life better guys
Awesome man
Well you know
Actually
This is impromptu
I didn't think about this
Until I read this
A second time
Guys
You know
I just realized
We've never had a chick
Co-host on here
What the hell's up with that
That's just wrong dude
Dude I gotta
I gotta make that
I gotta do something
About that
Yes
Put that up there
In your priorities
Yeah I'm gonna
When I'm at Freak Nick
This weekend
I'm gonna find somebody
To hook up with
That'd be a co-host
For the show
We'll see
We'll see what we can
Do with that
I can get chicks
But I don't know
Any chicks that are
In computer
You know
That could
That's a tough one
Anyway
That one came out
I'm sorry
That one came off
The cuff there
Yeah
I'm sorry to hear
That you work at Best Lie
I'm sorry about all that
But
You know
At least they let you
Listen to stuff
That's a good thing
And
You know
I so totally relate
To that statement
Because me
I
You know
I'm a
I'm a programmer
I mean the regular listeners
Know
I'm a senior programmer
Analyst
I'm sitting behind
Code
All day long
So I'm listening
To music
And to radio shows
All day long
So I'm one of you
I'm listening to this
Kind of stuff as well
So I totally
Totally relate
To what you're saying
And I'm glad
That you know
We can
We can put out a show
Each week
So far
Knock on wood
Each week
That you know
I guess some people like
Some people don't
Don't worry
I'm sure of that too
As a matter of fact
I know that for a fact
But we just try to make
The best show we can
Each week
And I'm glad
You're listening to it
And by all means
Hey maybe other people
In your processing center
There will listen
And pick them up as well
Share it
Get it out there
Join the revolution
Yeah exactly
Exactly
So by all means
Spread it
You know
Burn copies of it to CD
I know some people
Have emailed me
Saying they've done that
Burn copies to CD
And hand them out
Or leave them on a desk
At computer shows
Or trade shows
Or things like that
That's great ideas
Great stuff like that
You know
I just
Hey it's a show
For people to listen to
We don't charge money
We don't sell advertising
It's just me
Getting pissed off
At whatever the flavor
Of the month is
Cussing for an hour
And hopefully
Slip in a little education
In between all of it
Right
Okay
Anyway
Let's move on
This email
Okay this is not
From a real name
Actually
So I lied earlier
Our final email
This week
Is from
Delusion
I guess
Is his handle
I'm pretty sure
And this was actually
Like a three page email
A two or three page email
That is just way too long
To read on the air
You can go to
Delusion.com
That's
D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N
Dot com
To read the full version
Of this rant
It's posted on his website
And his blog anyway
So you can go there
And check it out
If you want to follow along
Or if you want to see
What it's about
But basically
And I'll just read
One quote from it
And he basically says
Quote
Og Vorbis
Is a solution
Desperately in search
Of a problem
Now this is kind of
A cliched statement
That people make sometimes
You know where
There's a really cool invention
That comes out
But there's no
Yeah there's no real
Application for it
There's nothing
That you can actually
Do for it
I'm not really sure
I mean he goes on
To say
I mean I think
The title of the rant
Is Og Vorbis
Is evil
Or something like that
And I don't really
I don't know
Where that comes from
I think that's a little
Drama
I guess put in
For writing
For good writing
So what do they call it
Literature
Creative
Creative literature
Yeah well I can't
What are the
Creative license
Is that what
Creative license
Yeah I took a little
Creative license there
Of course
So I'm not sure
Exactly what is evil
About it
But basically
And please by all means
I don't mean to
Sum this up
Go check out
His full rant
I don't want to
Leave anything out
So I apologize
If I do
But basically
The gist of it
To me was
And there were
Some valid points
In there
Don't get me wrong
He was basically
Saying that
MP3 is already
Here
It already exists
It's out there
It's in wide
Wide
Widespread use
And he's pointing out
The fact that
We don't need
Og Vorbis
MP3 is there
He admits
And agrees
That yes
It's copy written
The algorithms
Are all licensed
You know
Have to have license
And yada yada yada
And it's terrible
And you know
He admits all that
And agrees with that
But he's basically
Saying that it
Doesn't matter
Because it's already
Out there too much
That the audience
Exists
For MP3s
And he's very much
Right to a certain
Extent
Well not even
No he's very much
Right
There's no debating
That
It is out there
And I don't think
That it's going to
Go anywhere
Anytime soon
Either
But
I mean we can't
We'd be remiss
To give some credit
To Og Vorbis
For that
To be quite honest
What I mean is
That
The reason
One of the reasons
Anyway
That MP3
Is still here
I mean
The main reason
Is because it came first
Yeah
I mean let's be honest
The real reason
Is because it came out first
It was the first thing
That came out
That did this job
So that's where
It started from
And
And that's all
You know
I don't think
You can really
Debate that a whole lot
But
As it caught on
And people started
Putting their hands out
Wanting their money for it
That's when
People started realizing
The potential danger
For this
That
They could shut the door
On MP3
They have not to date
No
They haven't
Because it really grew so fast
And it's very hard
And we've been through that
The RAA
Hasn't given up
Trying to crack down
On stuff like this
But I think
They kind of
Somewhat realized
That they can't catch
Every licensee
Of the MP3
Encoder
Etc
Yep
However
It's important
To give some credit
To Aug Vorbis
And I'll tell you why
It's kind of like
The metaphor
I came up with
Is this
It's
Think about that
Cop car
That's on the side
Of the road
Sometimes
I mean
Have you ever seen this
Do they have this
Now where you're at
Where they have a cop car
On the side of the road
And the cop's not even in it
Yep
They just park it
On the side of the road
Yeah
Because it works
Right
And exactly
Because people see that
And just
They slow down
Simply because
The existence
Of the cop car
It works
It's effective
There's no denying that
Right
Yep
If you push your luck
You try to speed pass a cop
You could get busted
You could get in trouble
Yada yada yada
Yep
Well it's the same
This is the way
I compare the same thing
With AugVorbis
They're not going to push
MP3 too hard
And try to crack down
On the licensees
So badly
Because they know
That there exists
An alternative
In AugVorbis
They have a potential
Competitor
And it's as good
If not better
Than MP3
Now he also mentions
In his rant
Some very valid points
About
Is it really better
Than MP3
And quite frankly
I didn't really notice
A big difference
And yes
I compared them
I think some of the
Differences are overrated
And they're something
That only real high end
People would notice
Have you ever
Compared the two
Yes
And what do you
I mean do you
Notice a difference
It's
Like you said
It's something
That is only audible
You know
In a studio environment
For the most part
You know
It's
It's not something
That's gonna
That you're gonna notice
It's not like saying
You know
An old tape
Or anything
You know
Right
And they're both
They're both
Lossy compression formats
Yep
You know
So you can record it
I mean no matter what
You're not gonna get
As high a quality
When you're ripping it
To either one of these formats
As you would with the originals
That is correct
So if you want your originals
You're not gonna be able
To replace them
With either one of these
So comparing them to that
You know
Trying to say
That the quality of this
On the high end
Is better than this
On the high end
Well you know what
If quality's your baby
Don't use lossy compression
In the first place
Yeah
That's a big misconception
Yeah
That's just not
You know
So I do agree with him
On that point
If you're compressing it
To make a smaller file size
To me
And I probably will get
Some hate mail
Or feedback on this
Disagreeing with me
But to me
A 128 MP3
Sounds just as good
As an Aug Vorbis
They don't
Aug doesn't sound
Any better to me
On that level
Even higher levels
Personally
As a person
Who just listens
To music on their computer
Quite a bit
You know
And in my car stereo
Stuff like that
I really could notice
Very very little difference
But again
The whole point of this
Is I just wanted
To add to it
I agree with most
Of what he said
A lot of what he said
But I don't think
Aug Vorbis is evil
In any way
Shape or form
I think that was again
Some dramatic license
But the simple fact
That it exists
Gives an alternative
If they do decide
To really crack down
On an MP3
You know what
Then Aug will take off
Yeah
So
And you know what
I think I probably know
What prompted me
We had an episode
Of this
With Jason Scott
And I
From textfiles.com
Which we haven't
Pimped him in a long time
Go check him out
We did an episode
Where we talked about
Compression
And comparing
Some of this stuff
I don't know
If he listened to that
And that prompted him
To go on this rant
Or
He just generally
Had enough of hearing
Because you know what
Sometimes
I mean
I'll just be blunt
Sometimes these Aug people
Can really be
Forceful
I was waiting for the word
Yeah
I'm going to be blunt
But I'm not going to be rude
Sometimes they can be
Real
Bible thumpers
They can really come in
And try to preach to you
About how great Aug Vorbis is
And yada yada yada
It's great because
It's a free alternative
I'll give it that
And it does
As good if not a better job
Than MP3
Yes
Should we all run out
And convert right away
Not necessarily
Yeah
Not necessarily
However I will go on
To admit that
I am still in the process
Of converting the show
I'm not
I've said many times
I'm not going to drop
MP3
It's too widespread
And I want as many people
To listen to the show
As possible
However I'm going to try
To start putting up both
How many MP3 players
Do you know that play Aug?
Yeah unfortunately
Not enough
And you know
That's again where
They're trying to push Aug
And get it out there
On a lot of these devices
You know what
I mean
You know
There's probably more
That play the
Is it WMA
The Windows
Media Audio
Is that what it is
I mean most
Most of the car
Players nowadays
Will play MP3s
And WMA
Before they'll play Aug
So
Obviously
Again
You know
Digital licensing rights
And all that good stuff
In there
With WMA
Right right
But I think you can still
Rip to WMA
Without
And avoid the DRM stuff
Somewhat
Absolutely
Yeah I don't know that
For sure
I've never done it
So I won't
Try to wax intellectual
On that topic
But
But yeah
That's
That's really
There's not really much
More I can add to that
But again
It is
It is definitely
He does have a lot
Of valid points
Again it's
Delusion.com
If you want to read
The full thing
And Delusion
I don't know if that's
The site name
Or his handle
Or both
So I'm just going to
Call him Delusion
And say thank you
For the email Delusion
And that's going to be
It for the mailbag
This week
Some good stuff
Very good things
And let's see
The show and tell
I tell you what
Why don't you
Start off
With the show and tell
Because
I know you've got
A lot of stuff
Going on
And
Yeah I think
It's probably better
If you start
Alright so
Yeah there's a bunch
Of stuff we can
Kind of talk about
Yeah what
What has been
Occupying your time
Lately
Well most of my
Time lately
Has been occupied
Writing a
A class
For a
Company I work
For
Which is
Basically a
Penetration testing
Class
Better known as
A hacking class
Depends on
Depends which side
Of things you want
To market it as
But for the most
Part
They currently
Have a
Hacking class
And
Like many
Companies out
There
Or quite a few
Companies out
There
Really worldwide
It's only a
Handful of
Companies
That are
Successful in
Offering
Hacking classes
And
They are more
Of a certification
Shop
So
With that
Comes the fact
That there's a
Certification at
The end of
Every class
So I've been
Rather busy
Writing a new
Class
And at the
Same time
Working with
Some of
These
Certification
Authorities
As to
Some sort
Of
Certification
Path
That will
Be there
Along with
The class
That I'm
Writing now
Which is
More of
An advanced
Level
Kind of
A lot
Of
These
Classes
Are
More
Written
For
Your
Entry
Level
Security
People
For
Example
You know
Your
System
Administrators
Or
System
Programmers
Or
Network
Administrators
Because
They're
Tasked
With
The
Security
Of
Their
Equipment
The
Security
Of
Their
Systems
The
Security
Of
Programs
Which
You know
Lo and
Behold
I think
We should
All
Realize
That
We're
All
Task
With
Regardless
Of
What
It
Is
We
Implement
In
Any
Location
I
Think
Security
Of
Those
Systems
Which
Whatever
They
May
Be
And
Whatever
They
May
Do
Should
Be
Something
That
Number
One
Should
Be
Of
Interest
And
Number
Two
Should
Be
A
Major
Concern
It
Is
Certainly
A
Risk
For
The
Companies
We
Work
For
So
And
We're
Actually
Going
To
Talk
About
That
I
Should
Go
Ahead
And
Let
Them
Know
That
Is
Going
To
Main
Topic
Is
To
Go
Into
Some
More
Detail
About
What
These
Classes
Contain
Why
They're
Offered
You
Know
And
Kind
Of
Play
A
Little
Devil's
Advocate
Here
And
Kind
Of
Discuss
In
Detail
Some
Of
The
Questions
That
People
Have
And
Some
Of
The
Some
Of
The
Ideas
Around
It
Excellent
And
Yeah
That's
One
Of
Things
We
Can
Talk
About
Is
Okay
Classes
Are
All
Good
And
Working
In
It
Meaning
At
Work
So
Then
You
Know
These
Classes
Of
Course
Are
You
Know
Sometimes
They're
Kind
Of
A
Recap
If
You
Want
To
Call
It
That
After
A
Certain
Amount
Of
Time
I'm
Working
On
Specific
Projects
It's
Good
To
Look
At
What's
New
Out
There
What
Tools
Are
Used
And
Different
Techniques
For
Doing
Things
But
Then
You
Got
Now
Certifications
Tied
To
This
For
Example
Is
Certified
Ethical
Hacker
Certification
Which
Is
Offered
By
The
Certificate
Authority
Is
Actually
Called
EC
Council
Now
We
All
Know
When
We
Say
Certificate
Authority
For
The
Most
Part
We
All
Have
The
Nightmarish
Vision
Of
The
Invasion
Of
The
Microsoft
Certified
People
But
It's
Kind
Of
Interesting
In
The
Way
Things
Have
Some
What
Changed
And
That
Change
Is
Inevitable
But
You
Know
There's
A Lot
Of
Certification
Authorities
Out
There
Now
That
Are
Not
Product
Specific
You
Know
They're
Not
They're
Selling
A
Certification
They're
Not
Selling
That
You're
Certified
To
Work
Any
One
Specific
Product
Which
Kind
Of
Cracks
Me
Out
Because
For
Most
Part
That's
Really
Where
The
Market
Started
With
The
Sun
The
IBM
So
On
HP
The
Check
Points
And
Different
Security
Products
So
Early
On
During
The
Dot
Com
Hey
Day
You
Started
Seeing
These
Hacking
Books
Out
In
Barnes
And
Nobles
Right
And
You
Started
Seeing
Just
A
Very
Small
Handful
Of
Consulting
Companies
That
Were
Known
As
Black
Hatters
To
Start
Now
Serious
Consulting
Firms
And
Of
Course
This
Goes
Way
Back
In
The
History
Of
Hacking
Here
But
When I
Say
Way
Back
I
Mean
20
Years
Ago
Not
Necessarily
Way
Back
But
With
That
You
Kind
Of
Saw
Through
The
Last
Ten
Or
So
Years
More
And
More
Of
These
Type
Of
Classes
Being
Offered
More
Of
These
Type
Of
This
Type
Of
Subject
Matter
Actually
Being
Discussed
And
Or
Being
Part
Of
A
Conference
Any
Number
Of
Professional
Conferences
As
Well
As
Specific
Conferences
We
Should
Probably
We're
Going
To
Come
Back
To
That
In
A
Minute
Anyway
So
Let's
Not
Go
Too
Far
On
It
Now
We'll
Come
Back
And
Approach
That
After
We
Get
Out
Of
The
Show
And
Tell
Stuff
Because
There
Was
Also
Some
Other
Stuff
That
You've
Been
Working
On
Lately
I
Mean
I
Mentioned
Before
About
The
Def
Con
Meetings
Yes
I
Run
Def
Con
Down
Here
In
South
Florida
Which
Is
Basically
Def
Con
I
Think
The
Groups
Were
Created
Much
Like
As
You
Guys
Know
Out
There
The
Politics
Between
You
Know
Some
Def
Con
And
2600
And
Or
Other
Groups
You
Know
Not
Necessarily
Liking
Each
Other
The
Big
Debate
Between
The
Def
Con
Groups
Was
That
It
Wouldn't
Turn
Into
A
Party
Or
That
No
One
Would
Be
Shunned
Out
Regardless
Of
The
Fact
That
They
Were
Feds
Or
They
Were
Whatever
It
Was
Discussion
On
Security
And
Any
Specific
Subject
So
You
Know
All
The
Groups
You
Know
Started
About
Two
Years
Ago
Nationwide
And
Now
Internationally
Have
Been
Doing
Just
That
And
I
Think
Everybody
Is
Doing
A
Pretty
Good
Job
You
Know
At
Least
I
Know
Myself
In
Atlanta
I
Know
The
Gentleman
Who
Does
The
Atlanta
Meetings
And
What
Not
I
Know
We
Are
Kind
Of
On
The
Same
Path
Which
Much
Like
What
You
Do
With
Binary
Revolution
Is
Really
More
Than
Anything
Else
To
Collaborate
Amongst
Us
And
You
Know
Get
A
Lot
Of
The
Information
Out
There
From
Different
Points
Of
Views
And
You
Know
100
200
500
Minds
Are
Better
Than
One
Especially
On
The
Subject
Matter
That
We
All
Are
Interested
In
So
There
Is
So
Many
Different
Places
To
Go
Hardware
Software
And
You
Know
Wet
Where
So
About
You
Know
The
Competition
Thing
I
Mean
I
Go
To
The
DC
Meeting
Oh
Exactly
And
You
Come
To
The
2600
Meeting
Right
It's
Always
All
Good
And
You
Know
There's
Always
Good
Conversation
You
Always
There's
Always
Something
Good
To
Learn
You
Know
And
I
Guess
You
Know
The
Key
There
Is
To
Have
Some
Sort
Of
Order
In
The
Sense
Of
Actually
Making
A
Useful
Time
Or
Useful
Amount
Of
Your
Time
That
You
Can
Sit
There
And
Learn
And
Chat
With
Others
And
At
The
Same
Time
You
Know
It's
Obviously
Needless
To
Say
Great
Networking
With
Other
People
Who
Love
What
We
All
Love
So
Yeah
Exactly
And
We
Even
Go
Out
Of
Our
Way
To
Schedule
Them
On
Different
Days
So
That
There
Is
Not
A
Competition
Or
Overlap
Or
Anything
Like
That
Absolutely
So
I've
Been
To
You
Know
To
All
The
It's
Kind
Of
A
Drive
For
Me
To
Get
Down
There
To
Hack
City
Yeah
But
You
Know
It's
Kind
Of
A
Drive
To
My
2600
Meeting
As
Well
So
They're
Really
Not
Too
Bad
To
Go
To
Once
A
Month
So
You
Know
It's
Worth
It
Even
If
You
Can't
Make
All
Of
Them
Go
To
A
Meeting
Once
In
While
We
I
Keep
Saying
That
On
The
Show
All
The
Time
But
It's
Just
Because
I
Have
Such
You
Know
Like
You
Said
You
Meet
A
Lot
Of
People
That
You
Get
Along
With
You
Have
A
In
Common
With
So
And
You
Know
Even
For
Our
2600
Meeting
Upcoming
I've
Already
Got
Someone
Who's
Going
To
Be
A
New
Person
Hopefully
Who
Says
They're
Going
To
Try
To
Come
To
Over
250
You
Know
IT
People
And
You
Know
Teaching
A
Hacking
Class
You
Know
What
I
Tell
Them
Is
There's
No
Way
To
Make
A
Hacker
In
Five
Days
Yeah
Absolutely
Teach
You
All I
Want
To
Teach
You
But
You're
Neither
A
Hacker
When
You
Walk
In
Here
Or
You're
Not
You
Know
What
I
Mean
You're
Going
To
Walk
Out
A
Much
Better
Educated
System
Administrator
Or
Network
Administrator
Or
System
Program
Hopefully
Just
Open
Their
Mind
While
They're
There
Exactly
Or
Hopefully
Have a
Zen
Moment
And
Go
Oh
I
Can
See
Things
That
Way
Too
Which
Is
More
Of
An
Offensive
Point
Of
View
But
Make
The
Whole
Thing
A
Little
Bit
More
Interesting
But
In
Teaching
Those
Folks
I
Always
Tell
Them
I
Expect
To
See
You
Guys
Out
There
On
The
Mailing
List
On
The
Forums
I
Whatever
You
Want
To
Address
Yourself
But
The
Most
Important
Part
Of
The
Class
Like
The
Ones
We
Teach
Which
Are
Expensive
Five
Day
Classes
Is
When
You
Get
Out
What
You
Do
With
That
Information
And
How
Much
More
You
Take
It
To
The
Next
Level
So
One
Question
That
I
Have
Gotten
From
A
Couple
Of
Media
Outlets
And
Interviews
Is
How
Do
You
Know
You
Know
You
Know
There's
Nothing
Inherently
Bad
About
Hacking
Well
That's
Number
One
And
You
Know
That's
The
First
Thing
I
Tell
Them
Is
There's
Nothing
Bad
About
Hacking
On
The
Contrary
The
Bad
Part
Is
You
Know
The
Companies
That
Are
Selling
Us
Crafty
Products
Bottom
Line
You
Know
And
They're
Not
Testing
Them
You
Know
What
I
Mean
There's
No
QA
I
Mean
Your
Sake
You
Know
Right
And
QA
Of
Course
Quality
Assurance
Yeah
Exactly
So
I
Mean
Do
Some
Quality
Assurance
Make
Sure
Your
Stuff
Is
Quality
And
It's
Not
Crap
Really
I
Mean
I
Can't
Tell
You
How
Many
Horror
Stories
I've
Seen
So
You
Know
That
That's
Really
What
It's
All
About
But
The
Second
Thing
Is
We
May
Show
And
Follow
A
Process
And
What
I
Like
To
Do
Here
And
You
Tell
Me
Good
Ideas
I'll
Give
You
A
Little
Background
On
What
These
Classes
Are
Typically
Based
On
And
What
Kind
Of
Content
Is
Usually
Covered
And
You
Know
Kind
Take
You
By
Step
By
Step
Yeah
That
That'll
Be
That'll
Be
Perfect
Let
Me
Spit
Out
Was
There
Anything
Else
You
Want
To
Cover
In
The
Show
And
Tell
No
That's
Good
Okay
Let
Spit
Out
Because
Mine's
Very
Short
Actually
Because
Working
On
A
Project
With
You
Which
You
Kind
Of
Just
Dropped
Anyway
But
We'll
Just
Let
It
Go
At
That
I
Didn't
Know
If
You
Wanted
To
Drop
It
That's
Why
I
Was
Leaving
It
Nameless
Oh
Yeah
Okay
For
Sure
The
APT
But
Not
Only
That
But
I'm
Studying
For
Some
Certifications
Myself
Or
Quite
A
Few
Of
Them
Actually
And
Home
Today
Had
Two
Packages
Sitting
On
My
Front
Porch
Of
Some
Of
The
Study
Guides
For
Stuff
And
I
Got
Some
Other
Information
So
I
Basically
Made
Sure
To
Get
This
Stuff
Before
I
Leave
For
Freak
Nick
Coming
Up
So
That
I'm
Going
To
Be
Actually
Studying
I'm
Going
To
Have
This
Material
With
Me
Studying
On
The
Plane
To
And
From
Any
Kind
Of
Downt
I
Have
Like
You
Want
To
Talk
About
A
Specific
Class
Like
The
Certified
Ethical
Hacking
Yeah
Let's
Talk
About
That
Because
You
Know
What
Let
Me
Preface
This
Quickly
Because
I've
Talked
About
This
On
The
Show
Before
And
I'm
Pretty
Sure
You've
Heard
That
Episode
And
I'm
Going
To
Come
Out
And
Let
Me
Make
I'll
Put
This
Question
First
I
Want
To
Ease
Into
It
But
My
Only
Problem
With
The
Class
Because
See
I'm
All
About
Educating
People
I'm
All
About
Teaching
Anybody
And
Everybody
Whether
They're
Suits
Sell
Out
Security
Officers
Whatever
They
Are
I'm
All
About
Helping
And
Educating
Them
That
Part
I'm
Great
With
My
One
Big
Problem
With
This
Class
Okay
And
You
Defend
This
You
Explain
This
To
Me
Who
In
The
Hell
Certifies
This
I
If
I
Certified
It
If
You
Get
A
Hacking
Group
Like
DDP
Or
You
Get
An
Agency
That
Has
A
Reputation
And
A
Background
Somebody
Who
Has
Hacking
Like
I
Don't
Know
Cult
Of
The
Dead
Cow
The
Ghetto
Hackers
Some
Group
Who
Has
Credibility
As
Hackers
Or
In
The
Hacking
Community
To
Certify
It
I
Would
Have
A
Lot
More
Respect
For
This
Who
In
The
Hell
Certifies
This
And
Why
Explain
That
Well
I
Think
You
And
Me
Talking
Here
As
El
Diablo
And
Stank
Dog
Know
That
About
It
Doesn't
Mean
Anything
To
Either
Of
Us
It
Honestly
Doesn't
Mean
Anything
To
Me
It
Doesn't
Mean
That
Because
Somebody
Has
Gone
To
The
Certification
Who
The
Hell
Are
These
People
No
Doubt
About
It
You
Know
EC
Council
Who
Is
EC
Council
EC
Council
Is
A
Certification
Authority
Basically
What is
A
Certification
Authority
You
Know
I
Might
Get
My
Bunk
Kicked
At
Some
Point
Or
Another
For
Saying
This
But
For
The
Most
Part
A
Lot
Of
It
Has
To
Do
With
Marketing
Is
There
Any
Value
To
Certification
And
Certification
Authorities
There's
No
Doubt
There's
A
Value
There
So
Let
Me
Say
That
But
At
The
Same
Time
What
Is
For
The
Most
Part
A
Cert
Company
And
That's
Very
Much
A
Marketing
Company
Because
What
Do
You
Want
To
Do
With
Certifications
You
Want
To
Have
Enough
People
Have
These
Certifications
And
Value
These
Certifications
To
Then
Require
Them
For
Jobs
That
Just
Like
A
Bachelor's
Degree
Just
Like
Having
Gone
To
High
School
So
That's
Obviously
The
Goal
And
How
Do
You
Reach
A
Goal
Like
That
Marketing
So
Marketing
And
PR
Is
What
For
The
Most
Part
These
Companies
Are
Like
However
They
Do
Certainly
Try
It
Seems
To
You
Know
Make
Their
Certifications
Worth
Something
I'll
Be
Honest
The
First
Iterations
Of
The
CEH
I
Certainly
Myself
Dogged
And
Certainly
Thought
It
Was
Crap
You
Know
How
Can
A
50
Or
75
Question
Test
Prove
That
You're
A
Hacker
Much
Less
This
Name
Certified
Ethical
Hacker
Right
And
That
That's
Something
Else
I
Was
Going
To
Come
Up
To
Later
Too
Well
You
Know
That's
An
Oxymoron
What
Ethics
Are
You
Going
By
Now
By
Stephen
Levy's
Book
Which
Is
For
The
Most
Part
Hackers
Heroes
Of
The
Computer
Revolution
Considered
To
Be
The
Hacker
Ethic
So
Yeah
And
That's
Basically
The
Question
Is
When
You
Say
Ethical
Hacker
Whose
Ethics
Are
You
Talking
About
Everyday
Your
Everyday
Person's
Ethics
The
Computer
Security
Officer
His
Version
Of
Ethics
Or
A
Hacker's
Ethics
Which
Is
Again
Kind of
Comes
Back
To
If
This
Was
From
A
Hacking
Source
That
Somehow
Certified
It
Which
It
Would
Carry
No
Weight
In
The
Professional
World
I
Know
That
Don't
Get
Me
Wrong
I'm
Not
Naive
I
Understand
That
Part
Of
It
But
Well
You
Know
To
Be
Honest
I'm
Not
Exactly
Sure
That
That's
Necessarily
True
I
Don't
Think
Anybody
Tried
It
I
Think
You've
Got
People
Who
Have
Been
Successful
By
Dealing
With
Both
Sides
Of
Things
Like
Dark
Tangent
And
Def
Con
And
Jeff
Moss
And
Black
Hat
They
Have
Been
Able
To
Pull
It
Off
Never
Have
You
Seen
I
Wouldn't
Rule
It
Out
You
Have
A
Hacker
Group
Put
Out
A
Certification
But
For
The
Most
Part
They
Try
To
Make
It
Look
Like
A
Nonprofit
Group
Or
Whatever
But
It
Gets
Into
Business
And
Obviously
That's
One
Thing
That
Hacker
Groups
Are
Not
That's
Interesting
I'm
Actually
Writing
A
Note
Here
To
Myself
Might
Be
Looking
Into
That
But
Yeah
Absolutely
It's
Still
Certainly
A
New
Thing
Certification
In
This
Realm
Because
There
Isn't
One
Product
You
Know
What
I
Mean
You're
Not
Learning
How
To
Use
One
Product
Per
Say
We
Make
You
We're
Covering
10
Or
20
Products
Or
Any
Number
Of
Different
Things
Hell
You
Can't
Call
Exploit
Products
You
Can't
You
Know
You're
Covering
So
Many
Different
Things
Well
From
The
Security
Officers
And
Network
Administrators
Standpoint
You
Can
Almost
Call
Not
Really
Products
But
You
Can
Call
Them
Specific
Topics
For
The
Class
And
Maybe
We
Should
Do
That
Maybe
We
Should
Look
At
An
Overview
Of
The
Class
Itself
So
Let's
Look
At
That
Certified
Ethical
Hacking
Class
Certified
Ethical
Hacking
Class
Is
Based
On
A
Couple
Of
Things
Number
One
Is
Their
Common
Body
Of
Knowledge
Or
Common
Book
Of
Knowledge
Which
Is
Really
Their
Course
Materials
And
There's
Two
Different
Ways
Or
Two
Different
Partnerships
Out
There
With
The
Folks
Who
Are
The
Certification
Authority
CC
Council
Which
Actually
Is
The
International
Council
Of
E-commerce
Consultants
And
The
You
Know
They
Offer
The
Curriculum
Through
A
Number
Of
Different
Partners
Throughout
The
World
In
The
U.S.
However
They
Are
Primarily
Offered
By
One
Big
Company
In
Ten
Schools
And
They're
The
Ones
That
Primarily
Do
A
Lot
Of
The
CEH
Certification
Training
But
They
Don't
Use
Their
Curriculum
Per
Se
They
Use
Pieces
Of
The
Information
That's
In
Their
Curriculum
But
The
Test
Based
On
Their
On
This
Curriculum
This
Course
Material
That
They
Created
It
Is
Also
Loosely
Based
On
The
Austin
Which
Is
The
Open
Source
Security
Testing
Manual
Or
Methodology
Manual
Double
S
One
T
Double
N
But
The
Austin
Is
A
Methodology
That
Can
Be
Used
For
Doing
Security
Testing
And
I
Say
Security
Testing
Not
Penetration
Testing
Because
It
Is
Much
More
High
Level
Than
Just
Saying
Penetration
Testing
So
It's
Kind of
Based
On
Those
Two
Things
When
It
Comes
To
From
A
Curriculum
Base
But
It
Also
Has
Very
Much
Of
A
Hacking
Taste
To
It
You
Know
The
Objectives
Of
This
Type
Of
A
Class
Is
Really
To
Get
These
Students
To
Think
Outside
The
Box
And
I
Know
We
All
Heard
That
Get
Them
To
Develop
A
Hacker's
Mindset
Which
Like I
Said
Either
You
Walk
In
With
It
Or
You
Don't
You
Know
Some
Of
You
May
Hate
You
But
Again
You
Usually
Walked
In
With
It
Now
The
Other
Thing
Is
Again
All
This
Methodology
Approach
Or
The
Methodical
Approach
To
Doing
Security
Testing
And
Then
A
Lot
Of
The
Fundamental
Skills
That
They
Need
To
Know
What
Is
A
Hacker
Do
From
The
Outside
What
Kind
Of
Tools
Are
And
This
Is
Where
I
Would
Like
To
Make
A
Distinction
And
I
Think
You
Would
Appreciate
This
From
This
Moment
On
I
Like
To
Call
These
People
I
Keep
Saying
The
Hacker
Because
I
Don't
Want
To
Make
The
Mistake
That
Everybody
Else
Makes
These
Are
Attackers
So
I
Teaching
What
Can
An
Attacker
Do
I
Don't
Know
If
That
Person
Is
A
Hacker
By
My
Terms
And
By
My
Standards
Or
If
That
Person
Is
A
Packet
Monkey
Or
An
Idiot
For
All
I
Care
I
Know
I
Know
I
Really
Going
To
Teach
These
People
How
To
Deal
With
Being
Proactive
In
Security
Which
Is
Really
Truly
It
That
Is
Really
All
About
Is
For
God's
Sake
Be
Proactive
That
Is
All
So
You
Know
In
Teaching
How
To
Actually
Test
Their
Own
Environment
You
Know
That
Hopefully
Is
Going
To
Give
Them
The
Ability
To
Secure
Their
Own
Environment
To
Know
Where
Their
Weaknesses
Are
And
Work
On
Those
Weaknesses
There
Is
Something
Called
Acceptable
Risk
You
Know
Right
Yeah
Absolutely
Have
To
Run
A
Web
Server
Yeah
I
Can
Even
Give
You
An
Example
Of
That
We
Had
Some
Problem
With
The
Gallery
On
Bin
Rev.com
When
We
It
Was
An
Acceptable
Risk
As
Far
As
We
Were
Concerned
We
Weighed
The
Balance
Of
Whether
The
Risk
Was
Acceptable
Enough
It
Was
Limited
To
The
Gallery
That
Somebody
Could
Have
You
Know
Just
Basically
Been
An
Ass
And
Eventually
They
Were
Well
Yes
You
Absolutely
Have
An
Acceptable
Risk
But
At
The
Same
Time
You
Have
To
Teach
People
How
To
Judge
That
Acceptable
What
Is
Acceptable
And
Does
Very
Well
And
That
Kind
Of
Really
It
You
Know
There's
A
You
Know
Another
Thing
Is
Yeah
We
Expose
Them
To
All
The
Tools
That
Are
Used
Both
By
You
Know
Your
Attackers
And
By
Security
Professionals
Well
You
Know
Let
Me
Walk
Through
The
Class
With
You
I
You
Correct
Me
Or
Push
Me
Let
Me
Ask
The
Question
Step
By
Step
Like
For
Example
Day
One
When
You
Start
Off
In
The
Class
Do
You
Teach
The
Hacker
Ethic
Do
You
Teach
What
That
Is
No
Not
In
This
Class
And
Certainly
Not
In
The
Certified
Ethical
Hacker
Curriculum
So
Therefore
They
Are
Not
Explained
That
The
Ethical
Hacking
Part
Of
This
Is
Not
The
Hacker
Ethics
Is
Not
What
It
Is
It
Teaching
Ethical
Hacking
From
You
Go
To
ECCouncil
Website
Which
Is
ECCouncil
Dot
Or
And
You
Look
At
The
Certification
Levels
And
You
See
The
Certified
Ethical
Hacker
Certification
You
Know
It
Hits
You
Right
In
The
Face
You
Got
A
Quote
From
An
American
Author
And
You
Got
Links
To
This
And
That
And
The
Other
Thing
And
Check
Us
Out
Here
And
Check
Us
There
But
Obviously
They
Put
On
They
Haven't
Held
One
Here
In
The
U.S.
Yet
The
Certified
Ethical
Hacker
And
This
Certification
Authority
As a
Whole
Are
Basically
Much
Larger
In
Europe
And
Asia
Than
They
Are
Here
Yeah
And
I
Gotta
Be
Honest
I
Mean
I
Can
Say
This
To
You
Because
We're
Friends
I
Can
Be
Honest
And
Say
That
Offends
Me
A
Little
Bit
That
They
Are
Capitalizing
On
The
Word
I
Wish
They
Called
It
Certified
Ethical
Or
I
Wish
They
Called
It
Certified
Security
Testing
Or
Something
Like
That
It
Feels
Like
They're
Capitalizing
And
Taking
Advantage
And
Selling
The
Word
Hacker
But
Ironically
There's
No
Doubt
About
It
We're
Being
Exploited
Is
What
It
Feels
Like
You
Know
And
I
Mean
There's
No
Doubt
About
It
But
At
Least
Of
The
Way
To
Look
At
It
We
Have
Very
Little
Control
Over
You
Know
The
Exploitation
Of
The
Hacker
Name
Because
It's
Already
Been
Exploited
And
Already
Been
Pretty
Much
Set
The
Wrong
Idea
Everywhere
So
To
Have
A
Business
Company
Of
Any
Kind
A
Certification
Authority
To
Actually
Throw
The
Hacker
In
There
Believe
It
Or
It
Has
Its
Ups
And
Down
While
It
Is
Marketing
Hacker
At
The
Same
Time
That
Can
Cost
You
Business
And
I
Can
Tell
You
From
The
Other
Side
Too
There
Is
A
Lot
Of
Businesses
And
Or
Government
Entities
That
Don't
Want
To
Deal
With
Anything
With
The
Word
Hacker
In
It
Or
Certainly
Don't
Want
To
Send
Their
Individuals
To
A
Class
That
Is
Going
To
Teach
Hacking
Because
They
Only
Know
It
Is
The
Term
That
The
Media
Portrays
It
Even
If
You
Put
The
Word
Ethical
In
Front
Of
It
Even
If
You
Put
The
Word
Ethical
In
Front
Of
It
I
Think
We
Still
Have
A
Harder
Time
Set
Well
You
Know
It's
A
Give
And
Take
It's
Got
It's
Ups
And
Downs
Right
Well
I
Do
Know
That
One
Of
The
Things
That
You
Do
Cover
In
Certified
Ethical
Hacking
Is
The
Term
Hacker
And
What
It
Means
And
The
Way
We
Describe
It
Is
Really
The
Hacker
Is
A
Term
That
Is
Used
To
Describe
Different
Types
Of
Computer
Experts
That's
It
Is
Sometimes
Extended
To
Mean
Any
Kind
Of
Expert
Especially
In
The
Connotation
Particularly
Detailed
Knowledge
With
Regards
To
Circumventing
Limits
And
That's
Really
The
Way
We
Talk
About
What
The
Term
Hacker
Really
Means
Go
And
Give
Them
A
Little
Bit
Of
The
Hacker
History
In
A
Very
Brief
Timeline
In
The
Current
Class
But
Say
Where
Does
This
Term
Really
Come
From
And
I
Think
We
All
Agree
That
Pretty
Much
We
Can
To
13
93
From
A
Philosophical
Standpoint
Yeah
But
You
Know
As
It
Stands
Today
You
Know
Hacking
Is
Proceeded
By
The
Word
Computer
Hacker
Exactly
And
The
Way
You
Know
At
Least
Personally
I
Look
At
It
Is
Where
Do
Hackers
Come
From
As
We
Know
Today
Pretty
Much
They're
Rooted
With
MIT
In
The
60s
Right
And
That's
I
Think
That's
An
Absolute
True
Statement
For
Those
Of
You
Who
Don't
Know
Your
History
That's
Probably
Where
Really
Started
To
Take
Root
Well
These
You
Know
And
To
Kind
Of
Give
You
A
Little
More
There
Abbreviated
Timeline
In
1961
MIT
Got
Their
PDP-1
And
The
PDP-1
Was
You
Know
A
Super
Computer
That
Was
Given
To
The
University
In
The
Tech
Model
Railroad
Club
Basically
This
Was
A
Group
Of
People
That
Started
Working
With
This
PDP-1
And
Applying
Local
Model
Railroad
Slang
To
Computers
As
They
Were
Working
With
This
Thing
To
Do
Things
That
Were
Outside
Of
The
Scope
Of
What
This
Computer
Was
There
For
And
Hence
Hacking
It
Up
Or
Basically
Doing
These
Things
The
Term
Actually
Goes
Back
To
November
20
1963
Issue
Of
The
Tech
Which
Is
The
MIT
Student
Paper
And
It
Has
To
Do
With
Telephone
Services
Being
Messed
Around
With
And
It
Has
To
Do
With
Things
Like
Tying
Up
All
The
Lines
At
The
Harvard
And
MIT
Buildings
And
Making
Long
Distance
Calls
By
Charging
Them
To
Local
Radar
Stations
That
Sort
Of
Thing
They
Are
Classic
Stories
Yeah
They
Are
Definitely
Classic
Stories
And
That
Is
Where
The
Term
Comes
From
And
It
Obviously
Doesn't
Mean
Anything
Bad
But
Again
You
Were
Talking
About
The
Hacker
Ethic
And
What
Is
The
Hacker
Ethic
You
Know
Access
To
Computers
And
Anything
Which
Might
Teach
You
Something
About
The
Way
The
World
Works
Should
Be
Unlimited
In
Total
Right
And
You
But
See
I
Just
Wish
That
It's
Not
Only
The
Information
But
It's
The
Do
No
Harm
Attitude
Cause
No
Damage
Do
No
Harm
Free
Information
Knowledge
And
Learn
Experiment
Etc
And
That's
Why
And
I
Kind
Of
That
Was
Kind
Of
A
Set
Up
Question
Cause
That's
Why
I'm
Excited
About
This
New
Project
That
We're
Working
On
This
New
Class
Absolutely
Because
I
Really
I'm
Looking
Forward
To
This
Because
We
Are
Going
To
Address
Some
Of
These
Topics
Absolutely
That
I
Think
Is
A
Little
Bit
More
Appropriate
And
A
Little
Bit
More
Valuable
Frankly
I
Again
I'm
Sure
There
Will
Be
Eventually
Some
Certification
Tied
To
It
But
It
Doesn't
Take
Away
From
The
Curriculum
But
Yeah
The
Curriculum
Comes
First
Exactly
Which
Is
The
Big
Difference
With
To
Be
Honest
With
A
Lot
Of
The
Stuff
That
Comes
Out
Of
The
Certification
Authorities
The
Curriculum
Doesn't
Necessarily
Come
First
There's
A
Lot
Of
Other
Things
Going
On
That
May
Come
First
And
It's
Really
Staying
On
Top
Of
Things
We
Go
Through
Cracker
The
Definition
Of
A
Cracker
What
Is
Covered
In
The
Class
You
Do
Some
Terminology
At
The
Beginning
We
Do
Some
Terminology
In
General
Security
Terminology
As
Well
As
Categories
Of
Hackers
Black
Hat
White
Hat
Grey
Hat
Stuff
Ultimately
At
I
Personally
End
Up
With
Attacker
Even
Though
That's
Not
Exactly
In
The
Curriculum
I
Say
Whenever
I
See
The
Word
Hacker
Let's
Just
Take
That
Out
So
That
We
Don't
We
Don't
Confuse
Ourselves
With
Whether
That's
A
Negative
Or
Positive
Thing
A
Hacker
Is
Not
A
Negative
Thing
So
An
Attacker
Is
Just
Somebody
Who
To
Me
Is
A
Cracker
Actualized
And
That's
What
We're
Teaching
In
Clown
I
Very
Much
Appreciate
That
I
Respect
That
A
Lot
I
Mean
Let's
Hey
Come
On
Let's
Throw
Some
Names
Here
If
You
Want
To
You
Know
Who
I
Consider
A
Real
Hacker
Is
Brian
Kernigan
Dennis
Ritchie
Bill
Joy
Ken
Thompson
Richard
Stallman
Steve
Wozniak
Steve
Jobs
Linus
Torvald
All
These
People
Are
Real
Hackers
Right
I
Agree
Completely
And
You
Know
If
You
Want
To
Talk
About
Real
Attackers
Whether
You
Know
Some
I
Like
To
Say
Or
Not
But
Kevin
Mitnick
Is
An
Attacker
And
Fiber
Optic
Is
An
Attacker
And
As
Freak
And
Mafia
Boy
Are
Attackers
Let's
Say
Let's
Use
The
Word
Was
Let's
Go
Past
Tense
Yeah
Let's
Hope
That
You
Know
I
Think
Things
Have
Changed
No
Doubt
I
You
Know
If
I
Didn't
Say
That
Kevin
Was
An
Attacker
Because
Obviously
His
Actions
Showed
You
Know
Or
Were
Considered
At
Least
By
The
Law
To
Be
An
Attack
On
Information
So
But
Again
The
Point
Is
Attackers
As
Far
As
Computer
Systems
Are
Concern
Can
Be
Anybody
Hackers
Cannot
Just
Be
Anybody
Especially
Look
At
If
You
Look
At
You
With
The
Last
Ten
Years
Has
You
Know
Increased
The
Sophistication
Of
Today's
Attacks
Are
Much
More
Sophisticated
Obviously
Than
You
Know
Kevin's
Attack
However
Nowadays
You
Certainly
Have
A lot
More
Script
Kitties
Or
Packet
Monkeys
Out
There
Who
Can
Use
Any
Tool
That's
Available
On
The
Internet
For
Free
And
Just
Cause
Havoc
For
No
Reason
Yeah
I
Think
Our
Favorite
Word
Is
Packet
Trash
Yeah
You've
Got
Lots
Of
Packet
Trash
So
You
Know
That's
Kind
Of
The
Point
And
You
Know
In
My
Opinion
There's
To a
Degree
Even
Less
And
Less
Of
What
I
Guess
You
And
I
Consider
Real
Hackers
Out
There
Because
A lot
Of
Them
Don't
Even
Honestly
Understand
What
A port
Is
Or
You
Know
They
Can
Fire
Up
Any
Number
To
Get
Their
Computers
Penetrated
But
Needless
To
Say
You
Know
The
Point
Is
Today
Today's
Attackers
Can
Be
Anybody
Could
Be
Your
Next
Door
Neighbor
Could
Be
A
Student
Today's
Hackers
Could
Be
Anybody
Too
Right
And
That's
A
Very
Good
Point
And
Something
We've
Tried
To
Do
On
The
Show
Many
Times
Is
We
Hold
Some
Pretty
Surprising
Jobs
And
Work
For
Some
Pretty
Surprising
Companies
I
You'd
Be
Shocked
And
Amazed
I
Mean
If
I
Ran
Down
A
List
Of
Just
DDP
Members
You
Would
Be
Very
Shocked
And
Amazed
To
Know
Where
Some
Of
These
Guys
Work
And
What
They
Do
For
A
Living
So
I
Mean
We
Are
Everywhere
And
We
Are
Of
Any
And
Every
Age
That
Old
Cliche
About
How
We're
All
Sitting
in
Our
Mom's
Basement
That's
Just
Not
True
It's
Class
Content
Now
Obviously
We're
Not
Going
To
Go
Through
The
Slides
Or
Go
Through
The
Class
It's
Five
Days
Or
Whatever
Seven
Days
However
Long
They
Last
But
Like
What's
One
Of
The
First
Like
You
Go
Through
Terminology
You
Go
Through
Some
History
You
Go
Through
You
Know
Talking
About
The
Stuff
We
Just
Did
What's
The
First
Hands
On
Thing
You
Do
What
Do
You
What
Do
You
Ease
Them
Into
The
Some
Of
The
Actual
Hands
On
Stuff
After
We
Do
Kind
Of
The
Introduction
To
Professional
Hacking
And
Methodical
Approaches
To
It
And
After
You
Show
Them
Where
The
Bathrooms
Are
Exactly
And
The
Fax
Machine
And
What
Time
To
Take
A
Nap
And
All
That
No
Then
Basically
The
Next
Thing
And
That
We
Ease
Them
Into
It
Is
Setting
Up
A
Professional
Hackers
Attack
Network
And
By
That
I
Mean
All
Of
The
Caveats
And
Or
Other
Issues
That
May
Exist
Setting
Your
Network
Up
To
Full
Packet
Captures
When
Doing
A
Penetration
Test
Firewalls
Are
An
Issue
Nat
Is
An
Issue
D
Nat
S
Nat
P
Pat
You
Name
It
So
What
Are
All
The
Issues
With
That
And
Then
Right
Around
There
They
Have
To
Compile
A
Couple
Of
Tools
Right
I was
Going
To
Say
When
You
Say
Compile
Then
Are
They
Doing
This
In
A
Unix
Environment
Yeah
They
Actually
They
Are
Actually
Given
Both
A
Linux
And
A
Windows
Environment
So
They
Go
Back
And
For
Which
Is
Very
Much
What
A
Penetration
Tester
Would
Do
A
Professional
Hacker
Call
Whatever
You
Want
To
But
You
Know
They
Actually
Have
Both
Environments
Then
We
Get
Into
Immediately
After
That
We
Get
Into
Competitive
Intelligence
And
We
Show
Them
Or
As
I
Like
To
Call
It
Finger
Printing
Footprinting
Yep
That's
Pretty
Much
It
We
Encompass
It
Within
The
Footprinting
Or
Fingerprinting
The
Client
Or
Fingerprinting
The
Target
So
We
Start
With
Competitive
Intelligence
It
Pretty
Good
They
Get
A
Few
Examples
And
They
Get
A
Lot
Of
Different
Information
With
Competitive
Intelligence
And
Then
It
Moves
Into
Information
Security
Testing
Which
Has
To
Do
A
Lot
More
With
Things
That
Are
Just
Outside
Not
Necessarily
Computer
Related
But
Just
Security
Testing
As
A
Whole
Physical
Security
And
Things
Of
That
Nature
Because
They
Often
Fall
Into
The
Same
Realm
Then
We
Get
Into
Social
Engineering
Attacks
And
Explain
All
The
Different
Means
Of
Doing
Social
Engineering
So
They
Actually
Set
Up
A
Firewall
And
Set
Up
Their
Own
Servers
Towards
The
Beginning
Of
Class
They
Actually
What
They
Have
Is
Their
Student
Machines
And
In
Their
Student
Machines
They
Have
Windows
And
They
Have
Linux
And
There
Is
A
Target
Range
And
What
They
Do
On
Their
Local
Machines
Is
They
Update
Certain
Software
Or
Install
Certain
Software
So
At
Least
They
Go
Through
The
Steps
Of
For
Example
Checking
MD5
Hashes
Compiling
The
Software
From
C
Code
Or
RPM
A
Package
Or
Well
Obviously
A
Windows
Installed
Easy
Enough
Next
Finish
But
That's
What
They
Have
To
Go
Through
With
A
Few
Different
Tools
To
Actually
Understand
The
Different
Ways
Of
Installing
Software
And
The
Differences
Between
Shell
Scripts
And
So
On
And
So
For
Because
As
You
Can
Imagine
Some
Of
These
People
Don't
Come
With
Much
Of
Unix
Background
So
This
Is
Definitely
The
Intention
Of
This
Is
For
Individuals
Entry
The
Security
Space
At
Least
The
Current
Class
That's
Why
I'm
So
Excited
Like
You
Said
Working
With
You
And
Everything
Else
But
In
This
Advanced
Class
Because
It
Doesn't
Go As
Much
Into
A
Lot
Of
The
Methodology
Stuff
It
Goes
Straight
Into
The
Tools
And
Techniques
And
A
Lot
Of
Labs
Just
Out of
Curiosity
Speak
Up a
Little
Bit
Just
Out of
Curiosity
Totally
Off the
Wall
Question
Just
To
Stir
Up
Controversy
Among
Our
Listeners
What
Distro
Of
Linux
Do
You
Have
On
Those
Gentoo
Wow
Man
Are
We
Going
To
Get
Email
Gentoo
There's
Some
Diehard
Gentoo
Think
I
Ever
Looked
But
When
I
Was
Yeah
I
Don't
Think
I
Ever
Noticed
That
I
Mean
I
Tell
You
What
If
You
To
Linux
Gentoo
Ain't
Too
Good
For
You
And
If
You're
Old
To
Linux
It
Might
Still
Frustrate
You
But
For
The
Most
Part
What
I
Discovered
In
Working
With
So
Many
Different
Distributions
And
Watch
And
Empty
Fizer
Checks
So
Both
From
A
Security
Perspective
But
Also
From
A
Performance
Perspective
Everything
Installed
Is
Specifically
For
That
Box
And
Tuned
For
That
Box
And
I
Actually
Had
Heard
That
Gentoo
Was
A
Lot
More
User
Friendly
These
Days
But
We
Won't
Go
Into
A
Distro
Or
See
I
Didn't
Mean
To
Take
It
Is
The
Install
That
Royal
Pain
That
Interesting
All
Right
Anyway
That
Yeah
That
Was
Just
Kind
Of
Curiosity
Questions
Now
What
Are
Some
Of
The
Stuff
Like
Towards
The
End
Of
The
Class
Like
What
Are
Some
Of
The
Last
Things
You
Go
I
SSL
Accomplished
Or
What
Is
The
SSL
Process
And
So
On
And
So
For
So
We
Kind
Of
Cover
All
That
Stuff
And
Go
Into
Communications
Testing
War
Dialing
We
Certainly
Do
You
Done
Information
Or
Very
Passive
Information
Gathering
So
Now
You
Get
Into
Technical
Footprinting
And
Enumeration
So
Things
Like
SNMP
Wireless
Security
And
All
The
Issues
There
Sniffing
Keystroke
Monitoring
Sniffing
And
Passwords
Password
Cracking
Windows
Password
Weaknesses
It's
Actually
A
Very
Interesting
Long
Chapter
And
I
Say
Very
Hacking
Like
On
Netcat
And
Different
Uses
Of
Netcat
And
They
Certainly
Have
Enough
Of
That
Chance
To
Do
All
Kinds
Of
Interesting
Labs
With
Netcat
And
Again
Just
To
Remind
Our
Listeners
A lot
Of
The
Stuff
I
Know
People
Know
Very
Well
Already
But
Just
Keep
In
Your
Mindset
As
We're
Reading
Through
Some
Of
These
Things
That
This
Is
Stuff
They're
Teaching
To
Network
Administrators
And
Stuff
These
People
Don't
Know
This
So
Don't
Take
For
Granted
The
Content
Of
These
People
Testing
And
Analysis
On
Their
Computers
And
Stuff
So
This
Is
All
Good
New
Useful
Information
To
Them
I've
Certainly
Had
People
In
Class
Who
In
Fact
Have
Told
Me
That
They
Considered
Themselves
Advanced
Prior
To
Coming
To
Class
And
That
They
Often
Performed
Audits
Or
Scans
A
Big
Misconception
Between
A
Penetration
Test
That's
Not
Running
A
Vulnerability
Scanner
Like
Ness
At
An
IP
Address
That's
Not
A
Penetration
Test
So
A
Lot
Of
You
Know
Big
Companies
Do
This
And
They
Call
Them
Audits
And
They
Call
Them
Assessments
Which
Is
Very
Different
Than
A
Penetration
Test
Different
In
Pricing
Different
In
Scope
Different
In
Resources
But
The
Point
Is
That
A
Lot
Of
These
People
Come
With
That
In
Mind
Is
That
How
To
Use
Ness
Or
How
To
Use
ISS
Or
How
Etherial
Or
Ettercap
Or
Whatever
All
Of
The
Above
Exactly
So
The
Point
Is
First
Of
All
We
Did
It
That
Way
We
Can
Never
Get
Done
In
Five
Days
Because
There's
Enough
Tools
Here
In fact
There's
Security
Sites
With
Tools
And
Exploits
And
So
On
And
So
There's
A
Whole
Community
Of
Us
So
You
Know
It's
Bringing
Them
Into
That
And
Also
Making
Them
Realize
That
This
Isn't
Like
Being
Part
Of
Microsoft
Tech
Net
You
Know
Right
You
Know
You
Have
To
Really
Kind
Of
Stay
On
Top
Of
A
Lot
Of
Different
Things
Get
On
Mailing
List
Be
Active
And
So
On
And
So
For
So
You
Know
Certainly
A lot
Of
People
Come
Into
This
Class
Saying
They're
Advanced
And
They
Come
Into
Class
And
You
Know
For
Example
They
One
Of
Those
Very
Simple
Linux
Commands
Default
Gateway
Because
They're
Having
A
Problem
Here
Or
There
You
Know
Very
Basic
Stuff
That
You
Would
Think
Somebody
Who
Said
They
Were
Advanced
Could
Do
But
They
Just
Haven't
Messed
With
Linux
In
A
While
You
Know
What
I
Mean
So
Or
St.
Lyle's
Had
A
Lot
Of
These
People
Who
Go
Out
And
Do
A
System
Audits
And
I
Think
It's
Very
Important
For
These
Classes
To
Be
Out
There
And
Teach
Them
The
Difference
Between
All
The
Manual
Validation
That
Is
Done
When
Doing
Penetration
Test
Or
Ethical
Hacking
Call it
Whatever
You
Want
To
Call it
But
When
You're
Being
Tested
From
The
Outside
To
The
Inside
Or
Even
From
The
Inside
To
The
Inside
Really
Are
You
What
Exactly
Is
Going
On
And
It's
Not
Just
A
Matter
Of
Running
Tools
That's
A
Big
Misconception
Packet
Trash
Yeah
I
Mean
That's
The
Whole
Problem
We
Have
So
We
Certainly
Don't
Want
More
Packet
Trash
Right
We
Certainly
Don't
Want
System
Administrators
Turning
Into
Packet
Trash
So
That's
Kind
Of
The
Point
Here
Show
What
Vulnerability
Scanning
Is
And
What
Host
Scanning
Is
And
Network
Discovery
And
You
Know
Introduce
Them
To
Exploitation
What's
The
Differences
With
Exploitation
In
Windows
And
Linux
Specific
Applications
Like
IIS
And
Microsoft
SQL
Server
And
Really
Nowadays
It's
All
Web
Applications
So
By
The
End
Of
The
Class
I've
Kind
Of
Thrown
Them
Out
There
A
Little
Bit
But
By
The
End
Of
The
Class
You're
Getting
Into
Hacking
Web
Applications
And
Hacking
SQL
And
Finally
Report
Writing
Because
In
The
Professional
World
When
You're
Doing
This
Professionally
It's
For
What
One
Or
They're
Paying
For
Two
Things
Your
Knowledge
And
Experience
Which
I
Consider
One
There
And
The
Report
The
Final
Report
That's
What
They're
Paying
For
So
Report
Writing
Being
A
Royal
Pain
In
Many
People's
Behind
But
Ultimately
That
Is
What
Clients
Pay
For
When
They
Take
On
These
Services
Like
Penetration
Testing
So
With
That
We've
Got
Our
Let
Is
Anything
Else
Specifically
In
That
Class
That
You
Want
That
You
Really
Wanted
To
Bring
Up
Content
Wise
I
Think
Content
Wise
It's
I
Mean
You
Let
Let's
Emphasize
Just
In
Case
The
Point
Didn't
Come
Across
That
You
Do
A
Lot
Of
Labs
Yes
We
Do
You
Set Up
Technically
That
Is
To
Accomplish
This
Can
You
Go
Into
A
Little
Detail
About
That
Well
I
Got
A
Couple
Of
Interesting
Set
Ups
Basically
There
Is
A
Target
Range
And
The
Target
Range
Are
Three
Made
Up
Companies
With
Real
Primary
And
Secondary
DNS
And
Real
Mail
Servers
Real
A
Records
Back
There
And
All
That
Good
Stuff
And
They
All
Provide
A
Different
Service
And
They
All
Have
Different
Operating
Systems
They
All
Have
Different
Business
Justifications
That
They
Provide
For
Those
Companies
That
Are
All
Made
Up
And
The
Idea
Here
Is
That
Students
Get
To
Learn
The
Tools
And
All
That
Good
Stuff
In
Class
Between
The
Normal
Hours
Of
8
30
And
5
30
But
After
That
Then
It
Kind
Of
Becomes
Boot
Camp
Style
In
Fact
That
Is
The
Big
Term
For
These
Classes
Is
Boot
Camp
And
At
That
Point
All
The
Information
They
Learned
During
The
Day
Is
To
Attack
A
Target
Range
With
Very
Realistic
Systems
So
You
Know
You
Got
Clients
Going
Back
Or
Servers
Going
Back
To
NT
4.0
All
The
Way
Up
To
2003
That
All
Provide
A
Different
Service
Very
Much
Like
You
See
In
The
Real
World
Environment
And
At
The
Same
Time
You
Got
Different
Distros
Of
Unix
As
Well
As
Different
Distros
Of
Linux
Providing
Different
Services
So
You
Give
Them
Targets
We
Give
Them
Targets
And
The
Targets
Actually
Have
Different
Trust
Relationships
So
There
Are
Certain
Things
You
Can't
See
From
Any
Target
You
Got
To
Get
Through
The
Right
Target
And
Be
Able
To
Get
On
That
Target
To
See
The
Rest
Of
It
You
Know
So
There
Is
A
Lot
Of
That
It
Is
You
Know
I
Wouldn't
Say
That
It
Is
Easy
In
Any
Way
Shape
Or
Form
So
You
Know
Certainly
A
Lot
Of
Students
Can
Get
Lost
And
A
Lot
Don't
If
They
Keep
Up
With
The
Class
The
Success
Rate
At
Least
For
My
Class
Is
Certainly
High
I
Was
Actually
Getting
Ready
To
So
When
It
It's
All
Said
And
Done
And
These
People
Leave
The
Class
Well
First
Of
All
The
Last
Thing
They
Do
Is
They
Take
The
Exam
There
On
The
Spot
Correct
They
Take
The
Exam
Right
There
On
The
Spot
It
Is
Prime
Prometric
Exam
Which
Means
It
Is
Offered
Through
Prometric
Which
Is
An
Online
Test
And
Can
Be
Taken
At
Any
Prime
Facility
So
It
Is
Proctored
It's
125
Questions
They
Are
Multiple
Choice
Multiple
Answer
Or
True
Or
False
There
Is
No
Target
Range
For
The
Test
And
To
Be
Honest
With
You
I
Have
Had
Discussions
With
These
Folks
About
This
In
The
Past
Because
I
Was
Also
Involved
With
Another
Certification
Based
On
The
Austin
And
The
You
Know
He
Made
A
Valid
Point
Which
Is
Again
They
Are
Certification
Authority
They
Are
A
Marketing
Company
Call
What
You
Want
But
That's
Their
Business
And
He
Made
Very
Valid
Point
Which
Is
By
Having
These
Target
Ranges
When
You
Are
Trying
To
Take
A
Certification
Internationally
It
Makes
It
Very
Difficult
For
Something
Like
Hacking
And
That
Is
A
Valid
Point
Because
Systems
Are
Going
To
Be
Taken
Down
Quite
Often
Right
And
You
Know
What
How
Do
You
Know
How
Are
You
Able
To
Provide
24
By
7
Support
To
Make
Sure
These
Systems
All
Are
The
Integrity
Of
These
Systems
Is
There
For
The
Test
Questions
To
Be
Correct
Because
Then
The
Answers
To
Those
Questions
Vary
On
The
Integrity
Of
The
Systems
Right
And
That
Is
True
That's
A
Complex
Issue
But
You
Know
The
125
Question
Exam
Now
I
Wouldn't
Say
That
It's
Easy
After
Seeing
Many
SANS
Exams
And
Other
Exams
In
The
Realm
Of
This
Hacking
Stuff
So
After
Seeing
All
These
Exams
I
Wouldn't
Say
That
The
New
CEH
Which
I
Believe
Is
Version
3.0
Is
Not
By
Any
Means
Easy
If
You
Haven't
Been
If
You
Not
Active
And
Looking
And
Using
Tools
And
Looking
At
The
Actual
Package
They
Produce
Not
Just
Using
The
Tool
But
Actually
Knowing
What
An
Attack
Looks
Like
From
One
Side
And
The
Other
Side
Then
There's
A
Good
Possibility
You
Don't
Pass
The
Exam
If
You
Haven't
Had
That
Kind
Of
Experience
A
Lot
Of
The
Questions
May
Be
As
Easy
As
Something
Tool
Specific
Like
What
Type
Of
Tool
Would
You
Use
To
Do
Password
Cracking
Against
The
SAM
The
Question
Is
It
Online
Is
It
Offline
What
Kind
Of
Attack
Am I
Doing
Is
Dictionary
Is
Hybrid
Is
It
You
Know
Right
So
That
Would
Be
Kind
Of
One
Of
The
More
Easier
Questions
Believe
It
Or
Not
One
Of
The
More
Complicated
Questions
Would
Be
Actual
Hacks
Conversions
To
Asci
And
Things
Like
That
So
I
Can't
Say
That
It
Is
Necessarily
Easy
I
Can
Also
Say
That
It
Doesn't
Make
You
A
Hacker
Either
Right
And
We
Definitely
Said
That
At
The
Top
Of
The
Show
But
Ideally
You
Correct
Me
If
I'm
Wrong
I
Don't
Put
Words
In
Your
Mouth
But
Ideally
By
The
End
Of
These
Five
Days
Not
Only
Are
They
Now
Educated
Enough
To
Pass
This
Exam
But
Hopefully
Their
Mind
Is
Open
As
To
What
Not
Only
How
Specifically
You
Know
Things
Current
Things
Can
Be
Done
But
Hopefully
Open
Their
Mind
So
That
They
See
The
Thought
Process
And
The
Potential
Weak
So
Six
Month
When
New
Exploits
Come
Up
And
New
Security
Problems
Arise
You
Know
If
They
Just
Memorized
The
Steps
And
Went
Through
The
Motions
And
Pass
The
Test
It's
Worthless
Just
Like
Any
Other
Test
In
Any
Other
Environment
Computer
Or
Otherwise
Hopefully
If
They
Have
They
Develop
A
Mindset
To
Recognize
And
Learn
And
Adapt
And
By
The
End
Of
The
Class
Hopefully
That's
Something
That
They've
Picked
Up
Oh
Certainly
I
Mean
To
Be
Honest
I
Think
There's
Regardless
Of
Your
Skills
And
Knowledge
And
Or
Expertise
There's
Certainly
Value
In
All
Of
These
Classes
Offered
By
Any
One
Of
These
Vendors
I
Think
The
Delivery
Of
The
Classes
Certainly
Vary
And
The
Curriculum
For
The
Most
Part
Is
Very
Much
The
Same
Some
Are
A
Little
Bit
More
Ahead
Of
The
Game
And
Some
Are
More
Behind
But
Regardless
Of
The
Level
Of
Knowledge
And
Experience
That
You
Have
You
Are
Definitely
Going to
Get
Something
Out
Of
These
Classes
And
Not
More
Than
Just
A
Certification
Which
To
Me
Is
More
Important
Walk Away
With
The
Hacker
Mindset
And
That's
Certainly
Not
Something
That
We
Can
Put
Our
Finger
On
Hopefully
They
Do
And
We
Have
Some
Other
Ideas
We're
Going
To
Implement
To
Help
Lead
That
Along
Without
Again
Going
Into
Too
Much
Detail
But
Some
Things
We're
Going
To
Change
On
The
Fifth
Day
Or
At
Least
Try
On
The
Fifth
Day
And
See
If
We
Can
Open
That
Mind
Up
Before
That
Happens
Now
Let
Me
Just
Do
One
Question
Here
Because
We
Are
Running
Pretty
Low
Here
Let's
Say
That
Our
Listeners
Even
After
Hearing
All
This
And
They've
Heard
Some
Examples
Of
The
Content
Let's
Say
Our
Listeners
Feel
Comfortable
And
They
Think
They
Can
Pass
This
Test
With
Flying
Colors
Can
Our
Listeners
Go
To
A
Site
One
Of
These
Certification
Sites
And
Pay
X
Number
Of
Dollars
I
Mean
How
Much
Would
It
Cost
For
You
Know
Obviously
The
Executives
And
Stuff
Who
Don't
Know
This
And
They
Have
To
Come
To
The
Class
They
Pay
A lot
More
For
The
Classes
Themselves
Certifications
Part
Of
It
It's
The
Whole
Experience
But
Let's
Say
Our
Listeners
Know
Their
Stuff
And
Just
Want
To
Have
That
Certification
Yeah
They
Can
Go
Out
The
They
Probably
Have
Multiple
Locations
In
Your
City
So
You
Can
Register
Online
Pay
The
Money
And
Then
Go
To
That
One
Of
Those
Proctors
Exactly
Go
To
The
Location
Where
They
Put
You
In
A
Box
And
They
Give
You
The
Exam
And
That's
The
Prime
Prometric
Center
The
Other
Option
Too
Is
You
Can
Let
The
U.S.
Partner
Any
U.S.
Partner
Who
Offers
A
CEH
If
You
Go
To
UCCouncil.org
And
You
Click
Through
To
Find
Out
Who
Offering
It
You
Can
Go
To
Any
Partner
In
The
United
States
Who
Offers
The
CEH
The
Biggest
Of
Them
Being
Intent
School
And
Say
I
Want
To
Come
On
The
Friday
That
You
Have
A
Scheduled
Class
To
Take
The
Exam
And
They
Can
They
Can
Certainly
Do
That
And
You
Know
What
If
Anybody
Does
Follow
Up
And
Decide
To
Do
That
By
All
Means
Let
Us
Know
Or
If
You
Have
Already
Done
That
Frankly
Email
Us
And
Let
Us
Know
What
You
Thought
Or
What
You
Think
And
What
Your
Experiences
Were
Oh
Like
I
Always
Tell
Students
Let
Us
Know
How
You
Did
Let
Us
Know
What
You
Think
You
Went
Wrong
Or
Went
Right
One
Thing
I
Will
Tell
You
About
This
Exam
Is
It
Not
Aceable
Meaning
There's
No
Way
To
Get
100%
On
That
Exam
70%
Is
Passing
But
Having
Seen
The
Exam
Enough
Times
I
Have
Been
Taken
It
Myself
It's
Impossible
To
Get
100%
If
You
Get
Anything
Above
An
85
You
Know
Let
Me
Know
How
You
Did
It
Because
Of
The
Way
The
Exam
Is
Actually
Structured
Well
That's
Awfully
Intimidating
Now
I
Didn't
Mean
To
Very
Interesting
Okay
Well
That's
Good
To
Know
Now
You
Know
What
Before
I
Mean
We're
Going
To
Wrap
It
Up
Here
But
I
Don't
Want
To
Leave
Anything
Out
If
There's
Anything
Specifically
That
You
Wanted
To
Mention
About
It
I
Mean
You
Know
It's
Kind
Of
A
Touchy
Topic
I
Mean
Really
My
Only
Thing
Is
Who
Are
They
To
Certify
It
And
You
Know
That's
Word
Hacking
You
Know
What
Reality
Says
Otherwise
You
Know
What
Are
You
Going
To
Do
Yeah
And
Just
The
Same
Way
That
They're
Using
It
In
A
Positive
You
Know
In
A
Connotation
So
They
Can
Make
Money
On
It
You
Know
At
The
Same
Time
We
Also
Have
To
Look
At
It
As
You
Know
Hey
You
Know
They're
Not
Using
It
For
A
Negative
Connotation
No
They're
Not
But
I
Guess
It's
Fairly
Neutral
As
Far
As
That
Goes
And
You
Know
What
Another
Part
Of
Me
Says
That
You
Know
What
We
Should
Go
Out
As
Hackers
And
Get
This
Because
Of
The
Fact
That
You
Know
What
If
They're
Going
To
Use
The
Hacker
In
The
Title
We
Might
As
Well
Take
It
And
Get
It
To
Our
Advantage
Take
It
And
Get
This
Certified
Ethical
Hacking
For
Yourself
You
Know
If
They're
Going
To
Use
The
Name
You
Might
As
Well
Take
Advantage
Of
It
And
Get
This
Certification
Yeah
And
I
Really
Do
Believe
That
A lot
Of
Our
Listeners
A lot
Of
People
Can
Pass
This
Exam
And
There
Are
You
Can
Obviously
Well
I
Shouldn't
Say
Obviously
I
Assume
There
Are
Study
Guides
And
Things
Available
That
You
Could
Buy
And
Study
Yourself
You
Don't
Have
To
Go
To
A
Class
Oh
Yeah
I
Would
Say
A
Couple
Of
Study
Guys
You
Know
These
Companies
Put
Out
Tests
That
Are
Very
Similar
There's
A
Couple
Of
Companies
Out
There
Like
Test
King
That
I
Know
Do
For
A
Number
Of
Different
Things
And
I
Know
I'm
Not
Exactly
Sure
If
They
Do
The
C.H.
But
I
Can
Tell
You
That
They
Very
Close
They
Come
Very
Close
To
The
Way
The
Exam
Is
So
At
Least
It
Leads
You
Know
The
Most
Important
Thing
With
Any
Exam
If
Any
Of
You
Out
There
Has
Ever
Taken
An
Exam
Is
What
How
The
Question
Is
Asked
If
You
Can
Understand
That
Then
You
Know
If
You
Understand
The
Question
There's
A
Good
Chance
You
Can
Have
An
Answer
But
If
You
Can
Understand
The
Question
You
Lost
And
That's
Kind
Of
The
Biggest
Thing
With
Any
Exam
Is
How
Do
They
Pose
These
Questions
But
It's
Still
Multiple
Choice
It's
Still
Multiple
Choice
Yep
So
You
Always
Got
That
Chance
Yep
Like
I
Said
Two
Of
Those
Should
Come
Right
Off
The
Top
If
You
Just
Have
A
Clue
And
The
Hardest
Part
Is
Making
A
Decision
On
The
Left
All
Right
Good
Stuff
Good
Stuff
Well
Let's
Wrap
It
Up
We
Are
Pretty
Much
Full
On
Time
By
The
Time
We
Mix
Everything
Together
So
I'll
Turn
It
Over
To
You
To
Give
Out
Any
Shouts
You
Can
Take
First
Shot
You
Take
Shouts
I
Forward
To
Being
Back
With
You
And
Certainly
Hope
To
Get
A
Lot
Of
Feedback
Back
From
People
Out
There
And
Any
Questions
You
Know
We're
Here
We're
Here
Yeah
And
You
Know
That's
I'm
Glad
You
Mentioned
That
Because
Yeah
Email
Us
You
Know
Our
Email
Address
It's
About
That
Time
Anyway
Is
Radio
At
Bin
Rev
Dot
Com
And
If
You
Have
Any
Other
Questions
About
This
I'm
Sure
You'd
Be
Happy
To
Answer
Respond
Yeah
Absolutely
So
I
Will
Definitely
We'll
Pass
It
On
And
We'll
I'm
Sure
We'll
Have
You
On
The
Show
Again
Sometime
Soon
Anyway
But
Yeah
If
There's
Any
Other
Questions
That
You
Have
Or
If
You
Want
To
Call
Up
And
Say
That
You
Still
Don't
Agree
With
Us
Or
You
Don't
Like
It
Or
Whatever
By
All
Means
Email
Let
Us
For
So
Definitely
Shouts
To
Him
And
Again
To
Joe
Earlier
We
Mentioned
Joe
Doing
The
Show
Notes
For
Us
Now
That
Is
Tremendously
Helpful
So
Big
Shouts
To
Him
Shout
Outs
To
Natus
For
Those
Of
You
Have
Noticed
It's
Taken
Over
Oldschool
Freak
Dot
Com
Old
School
Freak
Back
Up
So
If
You
Haven't
Been
There
In
A
While
Go
Check
It
Out
There's
Some
New
Slip
Critical
And
The
Track
Is
Called
Home
Computing
How
Fitting
Is
That
And
That
Is
Going
To
Do
It
So
El
Diablo
Thank
You
Very
Much
For
Being
On
The
Show
Very
Educational
And
You
Know
What
A
Very
Professional
Show
We
Kept
The
Cussing
To
A
Minimum
We
Were
Honest
Straight
Forward
We
You
Know
We
Brought
Up
Some
Topics
That
We
Didn't
Shy
Away
From
So
I
Think
This
Is
All
In
All
This
Is
A
Pretty
Good
Show
So
Yeah
Everybody
Is
Going
To
Be
At
Freaknik
I
Will
See
You
There
Friday
Morning
10
To
12
I'll
Be
At
The
Registration
Desk
And
Of
Course
I'll
Be
All
Over
The
Conference
Anyway
So
By
All
Means
Stop
Say
Hi
Shake
Hands
And
If
Welcome
To
The
Computer
Age
Welcome
To
The
Computer
Age
Welcome
To
The
Computer
Age
Welcome
To
The
21st
Century
l
me
Welcome to the computer age.
That is exciting.
Welcome to the computer age.
That is exciting.
Welcome to the computer age.
Welcome to the 21st century.
Welcome to 21st Century.
Some experts are even predicting that the home computer
will eventually replace radio, TV, and favorite magazines.
It will, in fact, be a real window on the world.
An electronic communication center like nothing we've ever seen before.
It will, in fact, be a real window on the world.
It will, in fact, be a real window on a MR10.
Welcome to the 21st Century.