This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you
in a fag pose.
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six foe.
I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a Nero.
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream caps.
You need some ISO? Let me do my hard drive rifle.
Our exchange you could never stifle.
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.
Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.
You feel that rattle in your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones.
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the critics.
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIPs, SISs.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio.
I am StankDawg, and you are listening to episode 68, coming to you on October 26, 2004.
Now, let me just warn you up front and apologize that if my voice sounds funny or I sound like I'm a little under the weather, it's because I am.
So, I'm gonna try my best not to cough into the microphone or anything.
And the reason that I'm sick actually ties into the main topic of the show today, and that is our Freaknik wrap-up.
Now, my co-host today to help me out on the Freaknik wrap-up, of course, was someone who was at Freaknik.
And that is none other than Acidus himself.
Oh, Stank, I'm so glad to be here, thanks.
Yeah, I'm trying my best not to cough up a lung on the air.
I don't know if that'd be good radio or bad radio, though.
Every time I've left Freaknik, I've always had, you know, some nasty throat thing.
I'm holding back such a bad joke right now.
Hey, hey, hey.
Because I'm cutting back on the foul language on the show.
I assure you, it's only the drinking and all the smoke in the air and the staying up late.
Not what you're thinking.
There was a lot of that at this conference, I will say.
But we'll go into more of that later, of course.
In the meantime, let's take care of a little bit of housekeeping.
First of all, I want to remind people, I mentioned this before, but now it's upcoming next week.
Next week's episode is going to be preempted, as it were.
There will not be a show on Rant Radio next week because of the elections are on that Tuesday, November the 2nd.
So, A, get your ass out there and vote.
No matter which side you vote for and whatever, just do it.
If you're old enough and you have the right to vote, you're eligible to vote, you have no reason not to.
If you don't...
You shouldn't complain about things like the Induce Act and stuff like that if you don't actively vote to change it.
If you don't...
Don't bitch and complain if you didn't try to make a difference.
And don't give me that my vote doesn't count bullshit.
When 2 million people say that, guess what?
They counted.
Exactly.
Anyway, I'm not going to that rant.
This is just a reminder that we're not going to be on next week.
So, yes, we will not have a show next week.
I have not decided, quite honestly, if we're going to record a show and just put it up for MP3 or not.
Because I do kind of have a streak going.
As silly as it sounds, I haven't missed an episode in like a year and a...
Well, in 68 episodes.
Haven't missed a week.
So, I don't know if I'm going to take...
I kind of need a vacation.
You know what?
I'm sick right now and I got a lot of things going on.
And we might just take a week off and come back with the next episode in two weeks.
Maybe you should just do like a live show.
Ooh, make episode 69.
Live streaming show.
Anything goes.
Just random talking.
Oh, that could be just...
Oh, that could be devastating.
That could be very dangerous.
All we need is Tron to jump on and duck drop everybody.
No, I don't...
That's a little too dangerous.
Yeah.
We'll see.
I'll think about it.
That's an option.
Also, I have kind of some sad news.
Hackenslash, one of our favorite members of DDP, our young gun as we call him a lot,
is going to have to unplug.
He's got some personal things to take care of.
So, he's going to back out of the scene for a while.
And it's very, very much a good thing.
It's very good for him that he's got to sort some things out.
So, hate to lose him.
I hate to announce something like that.
But you know what?
He knows that we're here.
And he knows that if he needs anything, we're here for him.
So, take care of what you've got to take care of and let us know how everything goes.
Now, let's jump off of that depressing note and let's go into some emails.
And I actually have a correction on one of my emails from last week.
I had an email from Delusion last week.
And it was about MP3 and Ogvorbis.
I think the title was Ogvorbis is Evil.
And I accidentally gave the URL.
I thought it was his name.
I thought it was delusion.com.
And I knew it after I mixed the MP3 and uploaded it.
I knew that I'd made the mistake.
So, I caught myself immediately.
The URL is actually unhelpful.org.
So, that was my mistake.
I think I just assumed it was his name.
I didn't look clearly.
So, it was pure laziness on my part.
So, if you want to read that full rant in its entirety from Delusion,
it's on unhelpful.org.
Which, ironically, I was very unhelpful.
And he also emailed me clarifying.
And he says that the main point isn't the quality or MP3 already works issue.
It's really the idea of getting non-technical users used to switching formats,
which will allow the industry to foist an SDMI-related format
where the DRM is only enabled a year after the format reaches critical mass
on mass amounts of users.
Now, you really need to listen to last week's episode
to have got the beginning of that.
But, see, I do, I mean, I think he had a lot of points going on in there.
And I'm not sure that any of them were fleshed out or thought out completely.
I do like the fact that he's thinking about these things.
And there is somewhat of a point there, but I just don't know how realistic or reasonable it is.
First of all, SDMI, you mentioned SDMI, which is the Secure Digital Music Initiative.
And you can, I think it's SDMI.org, if I'm not mistaken, that you can read about that.
I mean, it's kind of gone underground since they had their nice little legal battle
with Dr. Felton at Princeton.
And that was, of course, remind the listeners.
Oh, so, basically, SDMI, they created a new type of digital rights management,
and they were having a contest to see if people could break it.
Well, Dr. Ed Felton at Princeton, with I believe some of his grad students,
went ahead and actually figured out how to crack the DRM.
And we're going to be presenting a paper.
Now, this isn't like, you know, me, for example, presenting a paper at a hacker con
about, say, a transaction system that sucks.
So this was, and getting sued, this was a paper prepared by a Ph.D. professor
with Ph.D. grad students at a internationally recognized academic conference.
And he got sued by, I believe it was the MPAA, or perhaps RIAA.
I really don't remember.
I think it's RIAA.
I think it's Ria.
And was told, you cannot make this presentation.
The court case ended kind of interestingly,
almost with the judge kind of throwing it out on an interesting technicality.
But no precedents were really set.
And I really honestly haven't heard much of SDMI since.
And wasn't the slap in the face to that also that they actually challenged people to crack it?
They challenged people to crack it.
They released it and said, and then they sued them.
Then they sued him.
So it was not a good affair.
And then people wonder why hackers try to keep the information underground
and try to release it under pseudonyms or anonymously.
Gee, you wonder why?
I'm resisting bad words right now like you can't believe.
Well, I have to point out, there was something on Slashdot earlier this week.
There's a book called Hackers and Painters, or Painters and Hackers, something along those lines.
If you search for that in Google, you'll find it.
And the author is releasing kind of a chapter every couple of months for free online,
and the book is available as well.
And it's kind of a collection of essays just about the way hackers think, the creative process.
And it's fascinating.
And there was one of the chapters he just released was talking about why are hackers opposed to DRM.
And he was very much talking about, you know, hackers trying to figure stuff out so they can make better stuff.
And it was just an excellent article.
And so I will point the listeners out to that.
Yeah, and I think...
We can find a URL.
Yeah, we've mentioned that on the show in the past.
I think it was X-Logic from Mountain Phoenix who had mentioned that he had read the book,
and he also said that it was just a phenomenal book.
I think it was X-Logic.
I wouldn't swear up to it.
But, yeah, I mean, I've heard a lot of good things about it.
I have to put that on my reading list.
But, anyway, back to this particular rant and this topic.
Let me go back and read this again just to make sure it's...
The main point is, isn't the legal...
Excuse me.
Isn't the quality or an MP3 already works issue.
It's really the idea of getting non-technical users used to switching formats,
which will allow the industry to voice an SDMI-related format,
where the DRM is only enabled a year after the format reaches critical mass on mass amounts of users.
Ouch.
Now, I'm not really sure.
I mean, first of all, we're jumping ahead a lot here, aren't we?
We're making a lot of assumptions on what...
Yeah, yeah.
One, we're assuming that users will switch formats.
Two, we're assuming the RRA controls that format.
And three, that they'd actually be able to push out a DRM solution and, you know,
kind of trigger it and that everyone would continue using it and not just jump ship.
All right.
Now, the DRM would have to be built into it from the ground up for them to retroactively,
a year after it's released, kick in.
And you know what?
Most users aren't going to accept that.
They're just not going to switch to something like that.
And that's kind of something I mentioned in the first part.
The first thing I thought about this comment was MP3s aren't going anywhere.
Well, no, I agree with that.
They're really not.
The foothold is too strong right now.
And that's the reason Og Vorbis is not able to take off because it's hard to change people's minds,
especially non-technical people, which he pointed out.
But I would prefer them, if there is an option, to switch to Og Vorbis as opposed to some industry standard
with the DRM and stuff built into it that they would control.
I would rather Og Vorbis be the option that they switch to.
So there's not necessarily something wrong with Og Vorbis or it being evil.
Now, he also mentioned in his email that he was taking some dramatic liberties by saying Og Vorbis is evil.
That was just an attention-grabbing thing.
But any time you have options, it's a good thing.
Yes, I would completely agree.
Yeah, I mean, there's no – you can't have freedom of choice without first having choices.
Exactly.
It's actually very interesting.
Og Vorbis really hasn't been – hasn't really permeated the end-user and consumer audio market,
but it is huge in the developer world.
I mean, so I make games for the Sony PlayStation, right?
I don't want to have to pay some German company or royalty fee so I can compress my audio.
I believe Rockstar Games, all the audio on there is compressed as Og Vorbis because it's free
and they don't have to worry about it.
And anything – especially with how expensive games are getting today.
Right.
This is a side tangent, but actually video games are more profitable, the dollars that you go into them
and how much return money you get out of that.
That's why you see a lot of companies and, indeed, lots of actors kind of lending themselves to video games
because they make more money than movies.
Man.
How much you put in.
And so anything they can do to even reduce that cost and maximize their profit –
because these video game companies, it's more of the exception.
Normally they'll have one or two games and that's about it that really take off.
So Vorbis is huge in the developer world.
Right.
Well, then, to continue that rant, you take somebody like EA Sports, Electronic Arts.
Yeah.
That capitalize on all the sports franchises and every single year release a new version.
Yeah.
Football 2002, Football 2003, Football 2004.
Oh, they're making money hand over fist.
Yeah.
So, yeah, every – and actually, I didn't think of that as an actually – that's a great comment
I didn't think about from the developer angle.
I was thinking completely from the consumer standpoint.
That's actually a very good thing to mention.
It's not just about whether users, non-technical or otherwise, are going to adopt it.
There's other uses for this as well.
Mm-hmm.
And the neat thing about – at least in the developer world – is you don't have to force
the consumer to choose because you're basically – you know, the game has not only the data,
you know, the graphics, the textures, and the music, but it also has the stuff that decodes it
and, you know, the graphics engines and things like that.
So, it's completely transparent to the user whether it's in MP3 or AUG or whatever.
Yeah.
And even so, let's – even if we stick with this and say that it's about consumers, I
still have faith in consumers, believe it or not.
Sometimes I question it.
Sometimes it wavers.
I'll admit that.
But NMOS, as a whole, I don't think that users are going to blindly switch to other formats.
Yeah.
You know, so worrying about them switching to some SDMI-related thing and then being trapped
in DRM later, subsequently, I don't think they're going to do that.
I have confidence that enough consumers are educated that they will not fall into that
kind of trap.
They will see it coming.
They will see the DRM built into this stuff, and that's why I hate Sony as a company.
I can't stand Sony because they try to make all this proprietary stuff.
I mean, what the hell – oh, does that count as a cuss word?
Oh, I can't take that one back.
What in the heck are they thinking with this mini-disc?
Hey, why don't you just support CD-Rs like everybody else?
No, you want to use your own proprietary little thing.
I'm trying so hard not – anyway.
Another example of that is their memory stick.
They were used to adopt standards.
I mean, granted, you can still buy like 7-in-1 readers.
I mean, there's still an insane amount of little digital medium storage.
But smart cards and compact flash are pretty much what everyone uses.
Sony has been completely unsuccessful in licensing the memory stick to anyone else.
Nobody other than Sony product can use it.
It's crap.
They're ridiculous.
The company does that all the time.
You know, we don't really know.
I mean, there are other markets.
In Japan, it may have a much greater – it may be adopted to have a much higher adoption rate.
I mean, it could be like 75% adoption rate over there.
At least that's with the mini-disc.
The RIAA, speaking of them, they really kind of set back the ability for burners to be freely available.
They pushed back that technology.
And so in Japan, actually, mini-discs were out, you know, really even before CDs became very prevalent.
And so it was like mini-discs versus tape, and people could buy songs from vending machines onto mini-discs.
And so mini-discs became huge in Japan, not so much here.
I think maybe that's a reason why they kind of stick with these, because in their home markets, you know, they pretty much dominate it.
Yeah, and see, Japan always adopts things earlier than we do, technology-wise.
Yes.
They always sell phones and et cetera, et cetera.
But, you know, the other thing – and I've had my Sony rant in the past.
But the other thing is they're complete, utter hypocrites when you have Sony Records, Sony Entertainment, but Sony also produces DVD burners.
And to me, that's just such hypocrisy to even do that.
Anyway.
Another rant for another time.
Exactly.
Well, actually, it's not for another time.
It's been done.
I just like bringing it up because I hate Sony.
But, you know, here's another great example.
This is the first example I thought of.
And I don't know if a lot of the listeners may not remember, but when DVDs or before DVDs first came out or when they first came out, there was another standard that came out called DivX.
And, no, not the video encoding program that everybody uses to compress their movies down to AVI, et cetera, et cetera.
No, DivX was a disk format.
And it was a pay-per-view type format where you could – the DVD players would support this format.
And I never tried it or used it myself because it was ridiculous and I refused to do it.
Yeah.
But you could go to the store –
Everyone refused to do it.
What's that?
Everyone refused to do it, which is why everyone, when you say DivX, they think of the Kodak and not the original DivX.
Yeah.
I mean, it's basically like four or five bucks you would buy the disk and you take it home and you get to view it once.
And then somehow it locked itself out.
And I don't remember.
I knew the technology at the time, but it's been years ago.
The players had a modem and they would dial out to a server.
Is that all it was?
In fact, no DivX disks work at all anymore because they had to take the servers down because the whole thing folded like in 2001 or something.
Yeah.
And that's a prime example.
And that's why I bring this up.
That is an exact example of worrying that users, non-technical ones specifically, are going to adopt a standard that would then shoot them in the foot because of the DRM or something like that.
Exactly.
Well, that's a perfect example that non-technical users did not accept it.
Yeah.
No, they threw it out.
They said, we're not going to do this.
DVDs are amazingly successful.
You know, but DivX, no, consumers were smart enough to say, you know what?
No, not doing it.
Mm-hmm.
So, anyway, that was from last week and I just wanted to bring that up again because I do, again, agree that he's kind of, there's some good points in there,
but I don't know if he's really thought all of those things out.
But it's good that he's thinking anyway.
It's definitely good that he's thinking about this kind of stuff.
They are valid points.
Now, our first, now see, that was, that was more like a fixing last week.
Let's start, actually, let me play our email theme music and start with today's or this episode's email.
Email.
Okay.
And email number one comes from someone who we're going to protect their real name.
And he says, good day, stank dog.
Good day.
Of course, that would be Australian, right?
I'm a noob to the hacking world.
I was lucky enough to meet a freak here in Australia.
I was right.
That I am going to uni and doing IT with.
Uni, I guess, is university, I believe.
I would guess.
I would think.
And doing IT with.
He directed me to your site.
In particular, the radio show.
I just wanted to say that it is refreshing to hear someone talk about hacking realistically instead of the panic tactics used by the, ooh, I'm allowed to cuss if it's in here.
Yes.
Okay.
Used by the fuckwits out there that have less knowledge than me.
Yes, the government.
Anyway, I'm making a few webpages.
I just wanted to know if it's cool to link to your site and direct the general public to the radio programs.
Um, absolutely.
Of course, completely, I mean, you don't even have to ask.
By all means, we want the information out.
We want people to listen to the show.
We want people to be educated.
We want, you know, to get the word out.
And I hope the, quote, general public does listen.
But I don't think that's really the case.
I think the general public doesn't really find, uh, me all that interesting, quite frankly.
Um.
You need to repeat the entire email, but say it in an Australian accent.
I can't pull, even if I was not sick, I don't think I could pull that off.
Yeah.
G'day, mate.
G'day, stank dog.
I'm a noob to the hacking world.
Is that, like, really bad?
Oh, that would have been funny.
I would have thought about that earlier.
I would have tried it.
I think we just offended all of Australia.
Yes, I apologize to all of Australia's listeners.
We actually have.
I've had a couple emails from Australia, and I see hits in the log.
There are people in Australia that listen to the show.
So, by all means, uh, sorry.
Um.
Sorry, I had to get a little sip of iced tea after my Australian accent there.
Uh, they know we're joking.
But, yeah, you know, I mean, yes.
Absolutely, we want people listening to the show.
Feel free to do it.
Um, we have a Creative Commons license on the site that pretty much allows you to do whatever you want,
as long as you don't charge money for it.
You know, so please, by all means, do that.
And, uh, I think it's very cool that, you know, you've met up with someone out there
that you have something in common with.
And hopefully you guys can, you know, maybe form a group.
I don't know.
I know 2600 has meetings in other countries.
I'm not sure which ones and where.
They've gotten them in Australia.
Yeah, and hopefully there's one local to them.
If not, maybe start one up.
I mean, you've got a couple people with things in common, you know.
Or if nothing else, just hang out once a month and call it, you know, see how it goes.
Mm-hmm.
So, thank you for that email.
And we had another email from Gil Bates, which I'm sure is a real name.
And Gil says, greets Grand Master Stank.
Do I have to say this one in, like, a rap voice?
I believe so.
Simple thanks to you and all your guests.
Maybe I'll, I should have run this through the Snoop Dizzle website or whatever,
where it changes everything.
Yes.
Simple thanks to you and all your guests for keeping the ball rolling with a new show each and every week.
Just like to say I'm no hardcore hacker and probably a little older than most of the scene.
But having said that, I enjoyed the varied tech topics covered each week and the way they're covered.
Uh, you guys have fun while handling subjects in an intelligent, thoughtful manner.
Stank, your do-it-yourself attitude and candid take on things is refreshing in this world of massive media flow based on politics, sales, etc.
Love it when you play devil's advocate in a conversation.
Really makes us think.
I feel like homebrew net talk shows, hacker-related or otherwise, are one of the most interesting and real information exchanges available today.
Good work.
Um, actually, I'm going to interrupt the middle of the email to say I agree completely.
I do think, hacker-related or otherwise, I do think internet shows, talk shows, even music shows and everything, I think are the future.
I think people are tired of the whole Clear Channel monopoly and the force-feeding music and stuff like that.
I do absolutely think that, hopefully anyway, there is going to be a big take-off in internet shows period regardless of topic.
Mm-hmm.
And, I think the same thing with, I think the same thing about the satellite radio stuff, too, but, they're, basically, they're not free.
That's the short version.
They're not free and you're going to start paying for premium content, which becomes just like the cable company and then you're, you know what?
Okay, yeah, I'll back out of that rant again, too.
Yeah.
Anyway, here's what this email was going to be about.
A couple of audio links your listeners might like.
First, there's Hell's Bells, a radio history of the telephone.
And, I've taken the liberty, this is a pretty long URL.
I went ahead and tinyurl'd these, so you can check that one out at tinyurl.com slash five, B as in Victor, nine, QB, quarterback.
Also, after you guys played an Evolution Control Committee song, I remembered listening to this.
And, this link, I also tied the URL to 65JH3.
It's an interview with Mark Gunderson of ECC discussing their music with interesting stories of media hacking.
Hope someone enjoys these.
Anyway, shouts to all the DDP crew, later.
Yeah, thank you for the links.
There's definitely, definitely people that are going to go check those out.
I, myself, am going to listen to the interview with Mark Gunderson.
I'd like to hear that.
And, there's a lot of freaks I know that are going to go check out the radio history of the telephone.
I know a bunch of people are going to check that one out.
So, we will put the full links in the show notes as soon as we can.
And, you know, sometimes I need to be reminded of this, that the show is fun.
You know, at least we try to make it fun.
I try to have fun while we're doing it and make some jokes.
We're talking about serious topics and trying to teach and educate and bring things to light that people might not have noticed.
But, at the same time, I don't want to get too awful serious that we can't laugh at it and have fun.
You know what I mean?
Exactly.
I completely agree.
Do the Australian accent once in a while.
Right out, snag I cry.
You're a much better crock hunter than I am.
Oh, yeah.
Crikey.
Crikey, mate.
But, yeah, some of the stories and topics that we touch on are so ridiculous that it's beyond getting mad at.
I mean, if you can't laugh at the ridiculous, what else can you laugh at?
Exactly.
And, at the same time, sure, I'll take some jokes at my expense or laugh at just making up some silly,
sometimes what might be called toilet humor.
I'm not above that.
No, of course not.
Yeah.
Occasionally.
You know, within small doses.
Yeah.
Now, the guys on the conference lines might argue otherwise, but anyway.
And, my co-hosts, present company included maybe, might disagree with you about the whole devil's advocate thing.
No, no, no.
I enjoy it.
I see that.
I just like arguing with people.
That's the bottom line.
Any chance I get to argue and debate someone, I jump all over it.
So, I'm sure my co-hosts might not appreciate that sometimes.
But, usually, we usually, at least we're intelligent enough and professional enough to agree to disagree if it comes to that, you know?
That's true.
So.
Well, I'll just make a comment about your mom.
I mean, the worst comes to worst, I can always do that.
Yeah, I mean, you can always, it's always the fallback.
Yep.
And, man, but I'm warning you, you don't want to play the dozens with me.
I'll warn you.
Um, and don't worry, don't use any of those old worn out in living color mama jokes either.
Those have all been done.
So, yeah, thank you for the email.
Um, and I will get those links up as soon as possible.
And our last email tonight comes from Dirty Dex.
Cool Nick, I guess.
Interesting.
Uh, nice show tonight.
I stayed up to listen to it because you said you were going to read my email since last week's show.
I appreciate you doing that.
And, actually, I left it, I think, withheld last week.
I appreciated you doing that.
About what you said, a co-worker of mine spends his evenings burning copies of your program as well as the others.
He passes them out to other poor souls doing the mindless stooge work at BB, which is, of course, Best Lie.
Funny it's called it BB, though, and it's Best Lie.
That's strange.
BL, I'm going to call it.
This was my last week at the Best Lie Center, and I can't freaking wait to break free and breathe a bit.
When you read my message tonight, you reminded me that I didn't leave you with my Citizen's Band handle.
I go by Dirty Dex after some messed up blues musician character I used on my college radio show.
I'll be around and I'll be listening.
Keep it up as long as it's fun.
We all love it here in New Brunswick.
We went from Australia to New Brunswick.
How about that?
Yeah.
Hot to cold, I guess.
Keep fighting for the term hacker stank dog and get a lady on the show for God's sake.
Yeah.
Easier said than done.
I'll work on that.
I really will.
I've got to see what I can come up with something like that.
I made a joke last week about how we've never had a female co-host before, and it's true.
I'm going to have to make that happen.
Now, that's it.
We're going to close up the mailbag here and go into the show and tell and kind of take a look here and be careful because the main topic tonight is going to be a Freaknik wrap-up
and talk about some of the stuff that went on at Freaknik and some of our views on it.
That's been really a lot of our show and tell, so I'm going to save that for later.
But some of the other stuff that I've been working on it was actually on the way – I don't know if I want to – is this going to turn into a rant?
Not a rant.
I'll turn this into a little piece of advice, and that's time management.
Time is the only resource that is not replenishable.
It's the only one.
It's the only thing that you can't get there.
We've gone to a deep stank.
We went from Australian stank and stank coughing.
Fuscious Australian stank, says.
Coughing into the microphone.
What I mean by this is that I just flew like 1,000 miles there and 1,000 miles back to Nashville for Freaknik.
And on the plane there, I had a couple layovers.
I had a couple hours that I was in the air.
I used that time to study for the certified ethical hacking exam.
I had some practice questions.
I had some books.
So I was reading up and practicing for the certified ethical hacking exam while I was on the plane.
And not only that, but I also wrote the introduction for the next issue of Binary Revolution magazine.
So I guess what – I say that because I've had people email me saying, you know, how do you get so many projects done?
And frankly, I don't think I get enough done myself.
I try my best, but I procrastinate as much as anybody.
I think almost anybody can write articles and produce these shows and stuff like that.
There's been a lot of new shows lately.
It's just a matter of instead of sitting in front of the TV for a couple hours, go and work on something.
Pursue some sort of educational pursuit.
You know, I watch as much TV as anybody.
Don't get me wrong.
You know, I'm waiting for American Idol to start up again.
Tell me you're joking.
I'm not joking.
Believe me, I've heard all the crap from everybody for watching that show, but I still like it.
Okay.
And still, you know, you can – it's all in moderation, as the old saying goes.
Anything in moderation.
Just use – take advantage of your time.
I don't – maybe this is something that came with age as I got older, which I was reminded how old I was at Freaknik.
That you really need to – there's not much to be accomplished.
You don't accomplish much by just sitting around and drinking or sitting around and hanging out.
It's okay once in a while.
Don't get me wrong.
But I don't know.
I don't really know what I'm trying to say, quite honestly.
I wasn't planning on that, so that kind of – I didn't wing that one very well.
But just take better – take advantage of your time.
If you've got free time here and there, always keep like a book in your car, for example.
That's a silly thing, but that's something very simple.
Always keep a book in your car so that you're ever waiting on someone to pick somebody up or waiting in line somewhere.
You've got a book that you can read.
Why wait in a line with your thumb up your butt when you could be reading and learning?
Exactly.
You know, there's just little examples like that, just little things like that.
I just always try to look for any opening – any opportunity or any opening to not waste time.
And believe me, it doesn't always work.
Anyway, what was I talking about?
So anyway, certified ethical hacking exam I was studying for, and I'm actually making a guest appearance at a class this upcoming Friday.
I'm going to go in and present to the ethical hacking class and kind of show them – I won't say an opposing viewpoint,
but try to put things into perspective for all these people in this class.
And I'm going to give a presentation and show them, you know, because I believe in educating anybody and everybody.
It's not just about educating other hackers or other peers.
I'm about educating anybody who wants to learn.
So these people obviously want to learn.
They're taking this class, so I'm going to go see what I can – if I have something to offer them.
Excellent.
And it's all about giving back and teaching new people.
And that's what I love about the DDP crew is you guys totally push the pro-education, and you're always positive.
Education is just so – I can't emphasize enough how infinitely important it is.
And, you know, I don't know if – we can edit this out if you don't want this on the air, but, I mean, you're about to come to a big milestone here in the spring.
Yep.
I'm graduating from college.
And I finally graduated from college.
You know, I was doing – I was in the computer industry and have been in it for quite a while, so I was taking night classes and took me forever to get mine, but I finally did.
And I'm not done.
I'm going on for my master's, and I know you're tossing that idea around.
You don't know if you're going to do it soon or maybe take some time off, but –
Not sure.
I know that I'm eventually going to do it.
And, I mean, you've got to realize, like, not theory, dual parallel, all these people, they have an education.
They know what they're talking about.
These are – it's infinitely important, not only in the job, in the workforce, in the job market.
It's definitely important there.
You know, we could go into a tangent or debate on the value of a piece of paper by some arbitrary college, but you know what?
It does carry weight.
And, frankly, you do learn a lot in college.
So, anyway, a second rant out of nowhere, second lecture out of nowhere.
Man, I really am getting old.
Oh, man.
Let me get back to the show and tell.
Well, I mentioned that I put up a new file server, 1.5 terabyte file server, and over the past week and the next few months, I've been moving files over to it.
So, I'm going through, like, boxes and boxes of diskettes even, old floppy disks and moving stuff over to this thing now.
And then I'll sort through them and organize them and see what kind of old stuff I can find.
I know Jason Scott over at textfiles.com, I've spoken to him.
I know I've got tons of old text files and hacking programs and stuff like that stored away.
Hopefully, they're not destroyed from years of sun and abuse or whatever.
On a floppy.
Yeah, I mean, they probably may all be ruined and send some stuff over to him, hopefully.
So, that's going to be, like, many months of constant work, free time work there.
So, that's for me.
Now that I've lectured everybody and bored them to tears, if there's any listeners left, why don't you talk about, you're always working on something.
Well, so, at Freaknik, I gave a little talk on a program I've been working on on and off for, like, two years now that basically kind of reads and allows you to modify some files that a spyware program uses.
So, the spyware program, like, monitors your screen captures and key logs, stuff like that.
This is sold commercially, so employers can monitor their employees.
And so, you know, parents can make sure their kids aren't talking to pedophiles.
It's a whole other rant there.
I think you will have much greater return if you actually teach people what's right and wrong than just trying to spy on them all the damn time.
So, this allows you to change it, modify it, do all sorts of fun stuff.
And I talked about that at Freaknik, which we'll talk about in a minute, and it got me kind of energized.
So, I've been spending a couple hours these last days on it.
Stripe Snoop, my MagStripe program that I've been working on, I'm actually – I wrote an article that's appearing in O'Reilly's Make magazine.
It's this big 200-page quarterly they're putting out.
And I also am talking with them right now about giving them some footage for a DVD on how – on constructing this MagStripe stuff.
They're trying to have a nice little how-to video.
Let's see.
Also, some company that makes little Linux point-of-sale devices, you know, like check readers, those little things, you know, by the cash register that will dial up to do credit card transactions, that type of stuff.
Has actually – we're in the process of licensing Stripe Snoop to them.
They want to use it in their product, so they're going to, you know, pay me a nice little fee to be able to use particular parts of Stripe Snoop in their product.
So, yes, you can, in fact, make money off open-source software.
Bet you didn't think you could, but you can.
Yep.
Licensing.
So, that's keeping me busy.
And, of course, you know, school and general social stuff.
So, busy, busy guy.
Yeah, and, you know, I'm glad you brought that up, too.
Social stuff, it exists, man.
We have lives.
We try to.
You know, I have like six projects that are entirely theoretical at this stage, and it helps so much to – luckily here in Atlanta, I've got about five or six good hacker friends that, you know, I visit pretty regularly with, and I can always just run ideas by them, you know.
So, and between, you know, everyone, there's a – you know, if I need to know about something, be it from, you know, radio frequencies to, you know, this type of circuit design or, you know, this obscure protocol or, you know, whatever, chances are one of us knows at least something about it to get the person started.
So, networking, even amongst hackers, is extremely important.
Absolutely.
Couldn't agree more.
We do the same thing with the DDP.
Yeah.
Because it is very hard.
Let's be honest.
I mean, I've said it before.
You're very lucky in Atlanta.
You've got some really, really good people there, and not everybody has that luxury.
You're lucky enough that they have a lot of people in a – you know, like New York, for example, is another good scene, I would think, that there's quite a few people there being a big city.
And I would assume the same with Los Angeles, et cetera, et cetera.
So, yeah.
You know, from what I've heard, it varies.
I mean, like, you'll tell me about 2,600 meetings you guys have down in Florida, and you'll be like, oh, I gave a presentation.
And, like, in Atlanta, it's like a bunch of guys meeting in the mall and just talking, you know, out in – some of the DEF CON meetings I know are more formalized.
It totally just depends.
But you know what?
If you're in a city and you can't find people, you know, there's – open up a 2,600.
It's full of e-mail addresses of people writing stuff that you might be interested in.
And, you know, I literally – even articles I wrote three years ago, I still get e-mail about them.
People saying, hey, I took what you did, and I expanded on it.
And, you know, we – as an author, you know, I can tell you I love getting mail about that stuff.
And, you know, anybody who, you know, e-mails you back and tells you to screw yourself, no, they're not cool.
Any author worth a salt will gladly take the time to talk with you, point you in the right direction.
Don't ask stupid questions.
I mean, by that I mean actually read through, and if there's a website about that topic, you know, that they themselves author, you know, go look at the FAQ before sending e-mail.
I mean, I get a lot of e-mail, and probably about 20 percent of it could have been answered had they, you know, just more thoroughly read the –
Yeah, I –
The already published information.
I can verify that percentage.
That sounds about good.
Yeah.
Yep, absolutely true.
Well, let's talk about Freaknik.
How about that?
Let's talk about Freaknik.
Stank, we've got to get some energy going on here.
I mean, you're sick.
I mean, my throat, I hope everyone, you know, isn't being decimated by my voice.
Oh, God, my throat is killing me, too.
Freaknik.
Freaknik was in Nashville.
Freaknik?
And Freaknik was about what it was every year.
I mean, the two sides of it, you know, I had fun, you, not so much.
Well, yes and no.
Yes and no.
I did have fun, but not – like what you said earlier about the 2600 meetings, about, like, I presented something, or ZeroDBs presented something, Cy Pete's presented things.
Um, that's what I like.
That's what I enjoy.
I go to these meetings and to these conferences to learn.
Right.
You know, that's my number one thing.
I'm going there because of the speaker tracks.
That's the main thing that pulls me in.
Right.
Now, secondary to that, it's always great that I hang out and meet other people and hackers with like interests that are intelligent, and I can discuss things with them, and they'll understand and get it because they're in the scene and things like that.
And aren't standing outside your door at 3 o'clock in the morning talking about stupid things.
Whether God was –
Yeah, discussing whether God was an alien at a hacking convention at like 3 or 4 in the morning.
That happened.
I don't –
I know.
I slipped through it like a rock, but I mean, apparently it screwed up with you.
Yeah.
Well, um, Desi has heard it also, I believe.
Yeah?
Because, yeah.
You guys were like a room away from each other.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, but yeah, well, that's – you know, we'll come back to that.
Let's talk about the actual speaking track.
Sure.
Um, because there were a couple things that I was looking forward to seeing, and then there were some things, quite frankly, that didn't interest me.
And I'm not going to put anybody down or single anybody out, but I'm going to talk about some of the specific ones.
Um, first of all, I got in on Thursday.
Yep.
I flew in Thursday evening, Thursday night.
Um, I met Natus and Lucky 225 at the airport.
I picked up a rental, and we all went to the hotel.
Um, we went out.
We went downtown Nashville Thursday night and actually met up, ironically, with my sister.
Who happened to be in Nashville for a business thing.
So, um, I got to see my sister in Nashville.
Like, I don't see her all the time here anyway, but it was kind of an interesting thing.
Interesting experience, as you told me.
Right.
And so I – so, yeah, very much.
And basically Thursday night I was able to settle in.
I was able to sleep.
Um, I woke up the next morning to work down at the registration desk.
Um, which really there wasn't really much – wasn't a demanding job, I'll say it like that.
Yep.
Um, and so that was it.
From 10 to 12 I worked at the registration desk.
So, basically Thursday I just settled in and got my room relaxed.
Played a great little – little prank, a little thing on, uh, on some of the guys there.
And, uh, that'll be on an upcoming Hack TV.
Um, and the speaking started at 12 o'clock.
So that's purposely why I went 10 to 12 that morning, so I could make it up to hear the actual speaker tracks.
And the first one that I went to was actually a friend of yours who – and you know what?
I'll stop here.
I – instead of saving shouts for the end of the show, I'm going to kind of mix some in as we go along.
Is that cool?
Sure, mix some in.
Um, because there's just so many, and I might forget people at the end.
Uh, first of all, shouts out to this guy, Bodburn.
Bodburn is excellent.
I think it's bodburn.com.
Okay, bodburn.com.
Um, this guy – this was, first of all, a great way to start meeting someone like this at the beginning
because he came in, and he – actually, he was asking for you.
And we – you and I have never – um, he – excuse me, he and I had never met before.
Uh-huh.
Um, but we had a common friend – we had a friend in common, and that was you.
So I kind of mentioned that I had spoken to you on the phone and that you were leaving,
and I mentioned I'm surprised that he was here because he had some potential conflicts that he obviously worked out and made it.
Yeah.
Um, but it was really a good feeling to know, and this is – yeah, I get corny and sappy sometimes, but deal with it.
It was really cool to see somebody, and this also may be a southern hospitality thing.
Uh-huh.
Um, a friend of yours is a friend of mine attitude.
Yep.
As soon as I mentioned that, you know, I had spoken to you or whatever, and we just started talking,
and I mean, we sat there and talked until he had to go up to his presentation.
We walked up, and, um, it was just such – he was just such a nice guy that we sat and talked about –
I mean, when I say talked, I mean, we talked about some fairly intellectual things.
We didn't just talk about, oh, yeah, where do you know acid is from?
No, that just started the conversation, and it was two friendly people who were able to start talking
who'd never met before.
Uh-huh.
So he was a very, very nice guy, so I definitely give shout-outs to him,
and then went upstairs for his presentation, which was the first presentation that Friday.
And that was on just basic hardware hacking, hardware interfacing, that type of stuff, right?
Right, right, and –
How to etch boards, how to, you know, um, uh, that type of stuff, make, uh, those things.
Right, and they did – they etched a board up on the presentation itself.
They had the – the chemicals and everything up there ready to go.
Now, this is really where my first – not – I won't say problem, but this is where my first, um,
concern with Freaknik kind of aired, and that is that here is this guy who was very cool, like I said,
giving – this is one of the presentations that I was most looking forward to, because I'm not good with hardware.
I'm not good at hacking hardware.
I'm not good with that kind of stuff.
So I was really looking forward to this, even though it wasn't exactly what I was expecting, but it was still good.
But what bothered me was that here was this guy, the first speaker of the night,
and I don't think there were more than 25 people in the room.
Um, and I felt bad that – that here he was, going out of his way to present this thing at this conference,
and people couldn't find their way to come to the presentation?
I know, it's rough.
That really –
Well, he was speaking at noon on Friday, but you're right.
I mean, it – it – especially how fantastic I know that talk was.
I mean, I was actually driving up from Atlanta while he was giving it, and I know how good it was, and people really did miss out.
Yeah, and that's a shame.
And now, to justify that a little bit, I do understand that it was a Friday and it was noon.
Some people were at work and could not get off.
I realize that.
But to me, why was this a Friday-Saturday and not a Saturday-Sunday?
I mean, it just seems like a foolish decision to me, but that's just my personal opinion.
But I guess that's the tradition.
That's the way they've always done it, so, you know, some people didn't get off work.
And the same – the same trend happened up until Friday evening.
Like, 6 o'clock, people started to come – more people started to come to the convention.
You know, and that's obviously because they were getting off of work, and as the night went on, people were driving in from wherever they happened to live.
So as the night drew on, the con got bigger.
Mm-hmm.
So – but I still felt, I don't know, disappointed for him.
Not in him, but for him not having a bigger audience for that.
And – oh, you know what else?
Just another – I'm going to give – I don't even know this person, but the 3 o'clock presentation on micro-broadcasting was supposed to be by ZPO.
I don't – I do not know this person at all.
I don't know if you do.
Mm-hmm.
And I don't know if it's ZPO or Zippo, but ZPO was supposed to present at 3 o'clock and did not make it because he actually got called off to Iraq at the last minute.
Oh, wow.
So there was a gap in the presentations for that, at which time they took a couple volunteers to do some impromptu presentations just on the fly there.
But, you know what?
I'm giving this guy shouts out anyway for his priorities.
You know, real life comes first.
And, you know what?
He's doing something that I wouldn't want to do and wouldn't wish on someone else.
So, you know what?
I've got most utmost respect for him for what he had to go through, what he has to do now.
He's doing the noble thing.
Exactly.
I think our collective hats are certainly off to him.
Absolutely.
I don't know you.
I don't know if I'll ever know you or meet you, but you have my respect.
Yeah.
Anyway, now, later on, there was this crappy Spectersoft thing that somebody gave.
Yeah, what the hell was that?
I don't know, but I wish he would have started it on time.
Punk-ass kid.
No, he probably would have started it on time at that guy that was doing the, you know, let me literally scream into the microphone about the RIA.
No, it was a good talk.
I'm kidding.
No, it was.
But he ran over about 15 minutes.
No, but, you know, and he was good.
I think he ran over because the other freestyle presentations ran over.
But, anyway, yeah, and actually I did see both of those.
I did see the RIA.
I missed the beginning of it, but I caught the end.
And I actually spoke to him afterwards because he had some things that I agree with, and I wanted to, you know, give him respect that, A, I'd like to hook up with him afterwards because some of the things we're doing on DDP Hack Radio coincide with some of his philosophies and stuff.
So I definitely want to maintain a relationship or an open discussion with him on things like that.
He's a good resource to have because he definitely knew what he was talking about.
And, B, it was probably one of the most professional presentations I've seen.
He took time.
The slides were organized well.
All the text wasn't in the slides.
There were bullet points and topics, and then he expanded upon them, which is exactly what a good presentation is.
You know, you want to keep the audience listening to your voice.
You don't want them reading slides, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So he – it was very professional, and he took a lot of time into it.
And I'm telling you, from a viewer standpoint, it shows.
It really shows.
There were other presentations, not only at Freaknik but at other cons, that the people looked like they really whipped something up, and the presentation was a total of five or ten slides and didn't cover things very well.
Or on the opposite hand, they were reading to you from so many slides, and you might as well have just read the book or read a text file.
Yeah.
So I give him absolute credit that he took his time and did that.
And here I go blowing smoke up your ass again.
And I feel the same way about your presentation.
And maybe it's because you learn presentation skills in college.
They emphasize that.
You have to do that for many classes.
I think that's got something to do with it.
I kind of had to pick up on it, and it was – you learn to do it quick.
In fact, there's a good friend of mine up there in Nashville.
Actually, he's from Alabama, but Syod, and Syod, you know, came up to me.
I've known him since the first Inner Zone.
He's like, dude, your presentation skills have only gotten better since the first Inner Zone.
And you really just learn to pick up.
You learn, you know, your slides are not there.
You know, people should be able to look at your slides after the talk and only get a rough idea, basically, of your flow and where you were going.
But, you know, if people could just sit there and read your slides, why are you there talking?
I mean, use those as bullet points.
But this kind of goes, actually, with public speaking.
If you're ever doing public speaking and you've got note cards or something, you never write complete sentences on your note cards.
You just put, like, a little couple of words or a little phrase or something to remind you of different points you want to hit.
And those are basically all your PowerPoint slides should be.
Right.
Well, and what I do is I usually put notes down at the bottom of the PowerPoint presentation or whatever.
Yeah, to remind you.
To remind me of stuff.
And I'm definitely, I admit, I'm overly verbose in a lot of that kind of stuff, as you know from the show notes.
Yes.
But, you know, the thing is, not only did you have the professionalism and the flow, and again, I'm being honest, I'm not blowing smoke up your ass, but you made it fun.
I mean, when someone has a joy and an interest and fun in what they're doing, because you were sitting there.
You came in just in, like, what, 45 minutes maybe before your presentation that you actually arrived?
I arrived into Atlanta, I arrived into Nashville from Atlanta.
I had class, and I was able to leave Atlanta until about 1.30ish or so.
And it's pretty much a four-hour drive straight to Nashville.
And I was speaking at 5 o'clock Central, so I got in at, or, yeah, 5 o'clock Central.
So I got there at, like, 4.30, 4.15ish Central time.
And pulled into the parking lot as you were giving me a call.
Yeah, that was, oh, yeah, I didn't, I never did tell you about that.
That totally freaked me the hell out.
So, for the viewers, so, I'm driving into the hotel parking lot, and, you know, I see, if you've ever seen Stank Dodds, Stank has a very definitive way of dressing.
And I've been, you know, coming out with a, with a sports jersey and a hat.
I always wear that on the first day of conferences.
Yes, that's true.
And he is, I suddenly, you know, I'm like, oh, that kind of looks like, and then I look down, my phone's ringing.
And then I look up, and I'm like, wait a minute, that person just sat down on the bench, and they're holding a cell phone.
And, of course, it was you calling me.
And so, I answer the phone, and I don't even say hi, I just say, look to your left.
Kind of pause for a second, look to your left, and I'm driving right at you.
Yeah, and it really was totally bizarre, because I went downstairs to get a breath of fresh air, and I said, you know what, let me see how close he is.
He should be getting here pretty soon.
And I started dialing, and that's exactly what you said, look to your left.
And sure enough, how bizarro was that, that you're right there.
So, yeah, that was really, really funny.
And just to, for those people who don't know, I do have a jersey, a Miami Heat jersey, because I'm representing the 305 South Florida.
I have a jersey that says Stank Dog, and I always wear that on the first day of the conference, so that I'm easy to find people that are looking for me and don't know what I look like, et cetera.
So, yeah, I was sitting out there with my jersey, and sure enough, you drive up, and then this is the thing.
You had to run up there, and I think your exact words was, dust off the presentation.
Yes, I had to dust off the presentation.
Hadn't updated it or done, you know, wanted to clarify a couple things on it.
Exactly.
Make some changes.
I had been, Strape Snoop has been taking so much of my time, this, I had emailed Dolomite, you know, months and months ago,
hey, you know, I'll talk, because I've talked at the last three Freakniks, Freakniks 6, 7, and 8.
And so I said, you know, hey, I'll give a talk, and this is why I'm interested right now.
Well, Strape Snoop kind of took off, you know.
I emailed him before Hope that I would do this SpectreSoft stuff, and Strape Snoop's taken off, and I just, I haven't had the time to get back into it.
And so I kind of dusted off my research and some slides I had made a while ago and updated them and, you know, added some of the information I had learned that I had had time to do research on.
And I think it went pretty well.
I mean, it's funny, because like I said, I kind of rediscovered how really cool it was, what I was working on.
And so I'm kind of continuing to work on it again.
Cool, very cool.
And then after you was Amy Sturgis.
And, you know, one other thing about your presentation, there were more questions and feedback after yours than any of the other presentations.
Oh, you mean people coming up afterwards?
No, just asking questions and feedback at the end of the thing.
Oh, yeah.
So that's the other thing.
If you're giving a talk, people are going to ask more questions than you expect.
But I was pretty happy, because my talk got pretty populated.
And I don't want to sound like, you know, I have a thick head.
But, I mean, I've been doing this in kind of the SE 2600 scene for about three years now.
And I pretty much talked at, you know, the two big conferences that are held in the southeast, which are Interzone and Freaknik.
And I've done so for the last three years.
So people tend to go, oh, after this is speaking, I will go hear that.
And I swear, one time I bet I could just go up there and talk about shit and still get a room.
But it certainly is nice when people actually come up and talk with me afterwards.
And they're like, no, that was good.
We weren't just coming for you.
We were coming because we knew it would be good, and you didn't disappoint.
Right.
So.
Yeah.
And you didn't.
It was a very good talk.
And I didn't know that stuff beforehand.
And I feel like, you know, if I wanted to, I could take and apply that and do it myself.
And, you know, you gave enough information to get somebody started and play with it on their own.
Yep.
And we won't go into too much detail and relive the actual presentation.
Exactly.
But, yeah, you can.
Are they making a video, by the way?
Do Freaknik release videos of all the presentations?
Or how do they?
So here's the difference between the two big cons in the southeast, which are Freaknik and InnerZone.
InnerZone is created by a guy named Rocket, and the entire point of the con is for Rocket to make money.
And he'll tell you something differently, but it is so Rocket can make money.
Whereas Dolomite runs Freaknik, last year they made about $20, and they went out and bought a case of beer with it.
Like, they run it, they actually have a nonprofit set up.
And so with Freaknik, it's very much, they're not about making money, they're about making costs.
They're about covering their expenses.
And once they've done covering their expenses, everything's go.
So the videos, everything for Freaknik, the audio, everything will be free.
And check out the Freaknik website.
Those will probably be coming up in the next couple of days.
Cool.
Very cool.
And you know what, I did not know that.
I have a lot more respect for, not that I didn't have it before for Dolomite, but that's a very cool thing to do.
Yeah, I mean, that is the thing to remember.
I mean, I know you and I have differencing opinions of how effective the con was as a whole.
But it is good to know that it is run as a nonprofit, and so they put a little less money in.
Or, not less money, I don't want to say that.
It sounds bad.
It's just, when you think that these are people entirely volunteering their time and really getting nothing but the experience of it out.
Well, come on, I'm talking to you.
You do the radio show.
You do the magazine.
I mean, you guys are, at least with the radio show, I mean, you're not getting anything out of this other than the joy of helping people learn.
And that's really what the people up in Nashville are about.
And learning myself at the same time.
Yeah, and learning yourself, too.
As an interesting side note, so I'm talking, good Lord, I'm speaking great English tonight.
I blame the throat.
They actually had an excellent thing for speakers.
They gave us these padded laptop backpacks.
Yeah, those were nice.
And they had Freaknik embroidered on them and also your handle on them.
And they gave those to all the speakers.
And, you know, I'm happy if I even get a free hotel room out of, you know, or just a place to sleep.
I don't even need to have my own room.
You know, a place to sleep provided by the people organizing the conferences.
Well, we put you on the floor.
Yeah.
Hey, no, that was fine.
But, I mean, typically, this is the first time someone's done that.
I mean, even, like, you know, Hope, they really didn't do anything for me other than let me into the comm for free.
Right.
Which, of course, was nice.
Right, same with me.
I'm not trying to sound, you know, unhappy.
But it's just this was really unexpected and very appreciated.
Yeah, this was above and beyond is what you're saying.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, I thought that was very cool.
And now they actually had those backpacks for sale without, you know, custom names.
They had the general ones for sale as well for the attendees, which was really cool as well.
I don't know how many of them they had or anything like that, but I thought that was kind of cool.
They had, I think they did a run of about, I think they said they did a run of 75, including the speakers, and they sold them all out.
Really?
Wow.
Yeah, they did pretty well.
Very cool.
Now, after you, no disrespect, but I just wasn't interested.
The next presentation was on Robert Heinlein, the author, science fiction author, and just really wasn't, just didn't interest me.
I'm just not into Robert Heinlein, so I skipped that one.
And unfortunately, I got sidetracked because of that and missed Johnny Christmas.
Oh, yeah, I know.
I only caught the tail end of his speech.
Yeah, and I came in, I came back in time to see Decius' rant at the end.
So I came back in time for that, but I missed Johnny Christmas.
And honestly, I did not know Johnny Christmas beforehand.
I met him actually, was it Saturday?
Yes.
Saturday, when he was getting ready to leave.
And he's one of the people that I wish I had spent more time and talked to there, which there were a lot of people like that.
So...
Wait a minute.
I'm going to have to interrupt you because you really started to break up really bad there.
Okay.
I don't know what's breaking down on your end, but it's real bad.
But I was basically saying that Johnny Christmas, when he was on his way out, and I'm filling for time hoping that you'd go back to sitting wherever you were sitting before you moved.
Is that better?
Yeah, oh, that's much better.
Okay.
The little pull cord on the bottom of the battery was, like, coming out.
Oh, that's good radio.
But yeah, Johnny Christmas, we met Saturday, unfortunately, on his way out.
And he's one of the people, him and Virgil.
I spoke to Virgil in the parking lot and said, you know, I wish we had spent more time.
We just didn't cross each other, unfortunately.
And, you know, it was a couple of the people I wanted to sit down and speak with.
So shouts to both of those, Virgil and Johnny Christmas, who, when we did speak, I thought he was a really cool guy.
Yes, and I actually was lucky enough to meet Johnny Christmas after my talk up at Hope, and was nothing but impressed, and was really happy to see him again.
And, you know, you and I were talking before the show.
The thing that, the cons are great, because they get everyone together, but the things that suck are you never have enough time to spend.
Right.
You absolutely never have enough time to hang out with all the people you want to.
Right.
Absolutely.
And I've also met him at Hope, but it was just simply an introduction.
Ah, gotcha.
And that was it.
It was that quick, so I really didn't.
So seeing him again was like, it gave us a chance to, you know, at least speak a little bit to each other.
Mm-hmm.
And then, of course, Desi is ending with a rant, and, you know, Desi is a great guy.
You know, he was really nice, and to meet him, it's the first time I'd met him in person.
We'd spoken on the phone a few times and emailed.
First time I met him in person.
And after we got him stuck out of the door, he's going to kill me for that one, isn't he?
Yeah, nobody knows, Desi is tall, and we're always kind of poking fun at him for it.
Yeah, he's a tall guy.
That was a tall joke.
But, no, it was really cool to meet him face-to-face, and he was a very, very down-to-earth, very real guy, and I liked that he was very cool about it.
And that was the end of night one.
Now, here's when the night, here's when the conference went.
End of the speeches of night one.
Yeah, end of the speeches.
And this is where Freak Nick took a turn for the worse, for me.
Mm-hmm.
For me.
Now, I still, actually, not quite yet.
We went, and you and I hung out.
I went and hung out with Droop.
By the way, I spent a lot of time hanging out with Droop to make a sweet love down by the fire.
Well, of course.
So, shouts to him.
But hanging out with a bunch of the guys.
We went to downtown Nashville.
Everything there was fine.
Mm-hmm.
The problem happened that night when I tried to go to sleep.
Yeah.
It was, well, actually, you got caught up in this drama a little bit because you came looking for us.
You were sleeping on the floor in my hotel room.
Yes.
Well, you were going to the first night.
You didn't.
You ended up having to find somewhere else, which was another story in and of itself we won't touch.
Exactly.
But I didn't get back to the hotel room until, like, 3 a.m.
I guess you stopped by at about 2.30 looking for us, and we were still out.
And I guess you didn't get my message on the phone or whatever.
But, anyway, we figured all that out.
But, well, I'm going to give the short version because we are running a little bit on time,
and I do not want to drag this into two episodes.
Yeah.
We've got a little time, but I'm not going to rush.
But the short version is I got sick.
Yep.
I got sick, and I just could not sleep.
Yeah.
I just couldn't sleep for anything.
I mean, my hacker's insomnia kicked in on me, and I just was miserable the whole night.
I woke up sick that next morning.
There were people, and we joked about this earlier, there were people out in the hallway.
And let me back up.
I know maybe I'm turning into a bitter old man or something, but I need my sleep.
You know?
It's that simple.
I need my sleep.
I don't mind.
I was up until 3 o'clock partying, too.
But I was doing it in downtown Nashville or outside.
Yep.
You know, there's a first floor where they had a game area set up, a gaming area, and some booths set up,
and a general hangout and snacks area.
And then there was the ninth floor where there was open air, and that's where the presentations were,
and they had music and stuff playing and anime.
Those are the places to hang out.
But for some reason, 20 people or so decided to hang out in the sixth floor lobby.
Yeah.
And talk and argue all night long at the top of their voices.
And I just...
I guess I'm just an old man.
I just could not sleep.
No, I mean, that's...
And the damn door, they put me in a hotel room right next to the freaking stairwell.
Exit door, yeah.
And it kept slamming, and I know Desius feels me on this, because it kept waking them up also,
and they were two doors down.
Yeah.
It was right outside my door.
And we stuffed towels in the side to stop it, and I don't know, somebody took them out.
Mm-hmm.
So that, I just, every time I drift off to sleep, I'd get maybe ten minutes of sleep,
and then I'd be woken up by one of the aforementioned disturbances.
And then I'd spend another 45 minutes getting back to sleep for 10 or 15 minutes.
Then I'd get woken up again.
Oh, man.
So I was miserable.
Miserable.
Mm-hmm.
So that's when the congoate started going down hill.
I can't really blame the organizers or anything for that.
I just wish people had been a little bit more courteous.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But, hey, what are you going to do?
Exactly.
So because of that, unfortunately, the next morning, I really wanted,
one of the other presentations I wanted to go to was the Asterisk presentation,
which was first thing in the morning, and it was from Mark Spencer,
which is the developer of Asterisk.
Yes.
Now, I don't know much about it.
I know how cool it is.
I know about what it does, but I don't know about the details,
the tech aspect of the thing.
And I thought this might be a good way to find out about it.
It actually wasn't.
It was actually more about a new protocol that they're developing, Dundee,
new protocol for Asterisk.
But I woke myself up in the morning to go see that.
And, actually, you and I were sitting there, and, I mean, I don't know.
I must have just been so out of it, about to pass out.
And I went back downstairs and went back to bed after that.
So I missed pretty much – well, not pretty much.
I missed everything Saturday.
Oh.
I missed every presentation, so I can't really say too much about these.
Did you catch any of these?
Again, Johnny Christmas co-presented with Aesthetics on Crafting and Crafting.
That was a good talk.
I missed it.
Darn it.
I'm not a big gaming person, but I did kind of want to see –
I hope I'm pronouncing it – Wolfus or Woofus?
Woofus was doing a phenomenal job.
Oh, see, I missed that one.
That is one I wanted to see as well, and I missed it.
So hopefully the videos will be – the videos will put up soon.
Right.
And I basically went back and tried to sleep again.
I still went through the same thing 15 minutes at a time.
People kept coming back to the room, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And I woke up at, like, about 5, 5 o'clock that afternoon
and kind of hung out with you and Rattle and a bunch of people.
Got some pizza.
Yeah.
Went out and – oh, yeah, we left out.
We went to that taco place.
When was that?
Taco place was Friday night?
Was it Friday night?
Yeah.
Friday night after the –
An Antonio Taco Company in Nashville, Tennessee, right by Vanderbilt.
It's freaking incredible.
Yeah, that was very cool.
I like that place a lot, and I'm not big on that type of food either.
Yeah.
But that was just a cool place to hang out and talk.
And that was really – that was one of the highlights of the weekend for me.
Was just – see, I like to just hang out and talk.
And like I said, I go to this to learn and to listen.
And if I have something to say, hopefully someone else can learn or listen to what I –
you know, if I have something to say about it.
But mostly I go to listen to other people and meet and discuss things.
And I had better times with hanging out with you and Rattle and Decius and everybody, I mean, from Atlanta.
I mean, you're really lucky.
You've got a lot of guys down there that are really cool and that know their stuff.
And I had a better time hanging out with you guys, whether it was at the taco place or in the hotel room,
which we hung out at several different places and et cetera, et cetera.
That is what salvaged the conference for me.
It really was.
So definitely, again, shout-outs to the ATL.
This is Acidus' view on these smaller cons like Freaknik and InnerZone.
I mean, you're not going to see, you know, the demonstration of an incredibly new exploit.
You're not going to see some revolutionary new nifty, phenomenal, you know, like BitTorrent-esque thing.
I mean, there's a chance.
But, I mean, probabilities are extremely low.
Those are – you're going to, you know, have a conference, you know, like Black Hat, which precedes DEFCON.
And, you know, you're going to pay a couple hundred dollars for the privilege.
These smaller cons really are, you know, like, for example, Freaknik's only single-tracked speakers.
They might as well – they're going to be giving talks about stuff you probably haven't heard before.
But, you know, you probably have also heard of some of it.
They're going to be talking.
They're not going to go into an extreme amount of detail.
It's not going to be horribly technical because, you know, only the most –
I mean, there comes a point where if I want to do really hardcore network stuff,
I'm going to go present this at a conference where, you know, it's a conference for hardcore, you know, network stuff.
Because then I can spend a lot more time focusing on what's really cool instead of trying to ramp everybody up to understanding it.
You don't want to speak over somebody's head.
I mean, these conferences, they're basically – the talks are all conversation starters.
They are, you know, hi, I'm after this.
I'm working on some – I'm working on some spyware stuff, on cracking spyware.
You know, I'm also working on the Stripe Snoop stuff.
Hey, you know, not only is this just spyware, but here's just some interesting ways to go about reverse engineering a file format.
If you've ever been interested, here's kind of the steps I took.
Okay, this is neat.
You know, I'm going to be hanging out, catching some dinner.
I'm going to be chilling up here on the night floor, you know, sitting outside, probably drinking a beer with Desi and, you know, please feel free to come talk to me.
I mean, they really are, hi, let me introduce myself.
This is what I'm working on.
I mean, that's how you got to really realize what Johnny Xmas – or Johnny Christmas was involved with.
So you get to talk a little bit with him.
I mean, so for me, the conference was a success because I didn't come for the speaking track.
I came for the people.
I know we don't want to be negative.
I'm not trying to be negative, but an example of this is one of the talks was on IPv6 and deploying IPv6 in a ISP kind of network center.
And, you know, I can go online and I can read the RFC for IPv6, and actually I have several times,
and I can go online and kind of find some of these stories of, you know, the migration.
You know, in fact, Red Hat even has a migration guide from IPv4 to IPv6.
So that talk wouldn't necessarily interest me, but at least I now know – I forget who gave that talk,
but at least now I know, hey, here's someone who's involved in, you know, giant network centers, ISPs.
They probably know a lot about, you know, configuring gateways, BGP, routing protocols.
They're here.
They're talking about this.
I should go talk to him about, you know, XYZ project.
I've been working on that and involve this.
So his talk wasn't so much as important as I now have, you know, a name, a face, and an interest all to associate.
So for me, the conversation was – or the call was a big success because I met about six or seven more people
who are working on stuff basically similar, if not identical to stuff I'm doing.
And I've already sent some emails.
We're going to be doing some collaboration.
And I got to sit back and, you know, see people I hadn't seen in about six months
and have a beer with them and find out what they've been up to.
Yeah, and then that again.
And if I would have gone into it with that attitude, expecting that, I probably would have had a more enjoyable time.
Yeah.
But I go into all the conferences with the attitude of learning from the speaking tracks.
Right.
And I did somewhat, but just not as much as I had hoped.
It wasn't – this was more of a party con.
Right.
You know, there were a lot of people there that were just there for the party and the drinking.
People were walking in the front door of the hotel with cases of beer.
Yes.
You know, to me, the beer is – I don't have a problem with it.
It just seems secondary to me.
Yeah.
After the talks are over, which is at, let's see, 8 o'clock at night about, somewhere around there,
then you go get the beer.
That's great.
But somehow it seemed like the beer was first and the talks and everything else was second.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Well, anyway.
It's a –
I know now.
So next time, if there is a next time for me, which I don't know, I'm leaning towards no,
but if there is a next time for me, I'll go into it with that expectation.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, ahead of time.
But I don't – the reason I say I don't know there is because I don't know if it's worth, you know,
basically after all said and done, renting a car, airfare, hotel, we're talking $500 trip to a party.
I can do that in Fort Lauderdale.
I can do that in Miami.
That's true.
But it's also the, you know, the people you'll meet.
I mean, yeah, it's laying back and relaxing, but it's like, you know, some of these –
for example, Johnny Christmas, prime example, you know, he's in Chicago.
You know, when the hell am I going to see him?
You know, I see him once or twice a year at conferences.
Right.
Now, granted, for you, yeah, it's a longer way to travel.
I mean, you're way down there, you know, towards the southern end of Florida.
Right.
For me, it's a four-hour drive.
I normally crash on somebody's floor, you know, and normally take them out to dinner or something.
So, for me, it only cost me about $100 with gas to go to the con.
Well, when you crashed on my floor, all I got was sweet, sweet love and down by the fire.
Sweet love and down by the fire?
Well, I –
I didn't even get dinner.
Twice?
I mean, I'll tell you what.
I owe you, I owe you a nice dinner.
I'm just messing with you.
Okay.
Everybody made sweet, sweet love down by the fire at Defcon.
I mean, at Freaknik.
Oops.
Freaknik up.
That's my area.
And actually, you know what?
Defcon's a slip-up, but that probably will be the next con I go to.
Well, Inner Zones in the spring, I don't know if I – I guess I'll worry about that when the time comes.
I don't know what's going to go in the future.
But, yeah, all in all, I guess basically what I'm saying is I wasn't impressed too much with the actual content of the presentations and the – some of them were exceptions.
Like I said, don't get me wrong, but the overall content of the presentations and the organization of the whole thing was more laid back than I was expecting.
I very much enjoyed Hope because it seemed like they took it professionally and treated the speakers professionally.
And they didn't buy a nice backpack, which this was cool.
They could have done something like that.
But I felt comfortable and confident that the videotaping and the microphones, they put time into setting up the stage and putting the chairs out there and putting all –
And all the nice red banners.
Well, yeah, that crossed an extra line.
That was my big thing with that.
I mean, I've always got something.
I mean, I can't say everything's perfect.
There's always some issues I have, I guess.
No, I hear you.
So, hey, I try to say good things to go along with the bad things.
I could sit here and say that Freaknik sucked, but I'm not saying that.
There were things about Freaknik I liked, but there were also things I didn't like.
So I know I'm going to probably get some hate mail about it, but –
Oh, you know, it's different strokes for different folks.
And, you know, hey, you've got your opinion, I've got mine, but, I mean, I know we're still going to be hanging out with cons, so what's it matter?
Did you just say pish posh on my radio show?
I did just say pish posh on your radio show.
I am so totally ending this show right now.
No, actually, no, there's one more complaint I have, and that is just the hotel in general.
Oh, my God, this hotel was –
That was the most –
People need to understand, this hotel is kind of in the ghetto.
Kind of.
There were prostitutes.
It's near the football stadium, and, like, literally, like, one of the fun things to do on the ninth floor, which was the penthouse,
there were two big, giant balconies, is people were sitting up there, you know, drinking, smoking, whatever,
and just playing, you know, spot the prostitutes.
And, you know, count how many times, how many different cars they went in,
and then how they ran into the bushes when the cop car drove by.
I mean, this was not a good part of town.
Yeah, and, like, Natus, Lucky 2 to 5 and Natus told me a story that they were right out in front of the hotel, literally,
and a big 18-wheel truck pulled over, and some woman walked up to the truck, and sure enough, hopped right on in.
Dude, that happened last, that exact thing happened to me.
I was walking to a gas station, and there was a truck that was, like, making, he kind of came up along, you know, my,
I was walking with the flow of traffic, so he came up kind of from behind me.
I was going to make a right turn kind of in front of me.
I was walking across kind of like the entrance to a driveway, and so I kind of stopped, and he goes ahead and waves me forward.
I'm like, oh, that was nice, and continued walking to the gas station.
And, well, I got back to the hotel and found out from Decius, and I'm like, he goes, you know that semi?
I'm like, yeah.
He's like, he wasn't being nice and letting you cough.
He was waiting for the prostitute to finish getting in his car.
Yeah, so basically it was a nice part of town, and that's, again, again goes back to my lack of sleep.
There was a train that pulled in at 2 o'clock in the morning every morning.
Oh, man.
And parked over there.
There was planes going overhead.
There was, oh, it was just a ghetto hotel.
And every single floor on there, there was something that was unfinished.
Yeah.
Whose room?
There was a process of, like, renovating it for fire.
That should give you an idea.
They didn't even have fire sprinklers in all the rooms.
The ceilings were missing out of half of the rooms.
There was, they were not in the process of renovating.
They were in the process of renovating, but they were in year five.
Yeah.
They just hadn't.
Actually, it did not look that bad last year.
It did not?
No, it did not look that bad.
I'll take your word for that, then.
And again, of course, I probably would have burned to death because they didn't have fire
insurance.
So I'm pretty happy that, you know, it's got, they got those now.
Fire protection is good things.
But, you know, we really should end on the positive note and say, you know, hey, I was
really happy to see Johnny Christmas again.
It was really great to meet Lucky after reading, you know, his articles in 2600 and seeing,
you know, hearing him on BinRev.
And I had a fantastic time, you know, heading out with you.
I mean, that, that you didn't even see it.
We went out to San Antonio Taco Company again on, God, what was it?
Sunday.
Sunday when the calm was kind of going down and you guys went geocaching.
And there were, we had like 24, 25 people.
We just took up the entire patio.
Yeah.
Uh, so it was great just kind of relaxing with all these different people and, you
know, to see Sayot and Strick and Virgil and, you know, to see you coming up.
I mean, I haven't seen you since Hope.
So all in all, I, I was glad and happy to be with everybody.
Yeah.
I, I definitely enjoyed that aspect of it.
And yeah, Sunday, I think Lucky had to leave at like 2.30 that afternoon.
Addis had left early in the morning.
I don't think he even slept.
And, uh, I left at like seven-ish or something.
So yeah, we would, Droops and I did a little geocaching, so we all had to take off and
catch planes out of there.
So yeah, that was good.
The, you know, the hanging out was the highlight of it.
It felt like, you know, and you had, you had said this in the past, I think even on the
show, that it was like a big 2,600 meeting.
And that, and it really is what it was.
It really felt like.
It's a big 2,600 meeting.
I, I'm sure a 2,600 meeting, even yours guys down in Florida, someone's going to give
a presentation, but it's probably not going to be like ground shaking.
You know, I just found a flaw in, you know, IP, and now I can own everything.
Right.
You know?
Right.
And, um, Nashville itself, you know, it was pretty small.
The downtown area with stuff to do, the club scene and everything, was not very much to
write home about.
Nope.
I'm glad it didn't schedule.
It's in the middle of freaking Tennessee.
Yeah.
It wasn't so bad.
I still had a good time the one or two nights we went down there.
Any more than that, yeah, it would have gotten old.
But.
They, they've got the Batman building.
They've got the Batman Bell South building there.
Yeah.
We went through the Bell South, we did a little UE around the Bell South building.
I forgot to mention that.
And every restaurant, and this is the one thing that I missed about the South, every
restaurant had sweet iced tea.
Yes.
Even white.
On tap.
Yeah.
Even White Castles.
Yep.
Had sweet iced tea.
And that's a Southern thing.
And that, I missed, and I'm glad I had that.
And I had some White Castles, too.
So, yeah, let's, let's close out on that pish posh.
How dare you say pish posh on my, it's like you, what was that other thing you taught
me, a, a ferret and a glitter shop?
Is that what it was?
Ferret and a glitter shop.
I still don't even know what the hell that means.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so easy, so easily distracted.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
Yep.
I think those are definitely radio firsts.
Yes.
There we go.
Let's wrap it up here.
I'm glad I said we'll give shouts as we go along, because I didn't want to leave anybody
out.
I mean, everybody in ATL, you know, all those guys we mentioned earlier, definitely big shouts
out to them.
To Johnny Christmas, and he's in Chicago area, I think.
Hmm.
Who else?
Droops.
Nattis.
Droops was excellent to meet.
He was really cool.
He called everybody buddy, which I liked.
And he kept smacking me on the ass.
I liked that.
That was nice.
Yeah, it was nice.
And Rattle came down from New Jersey, and there were meme streamers.
There were quite a number of folks there.
Cool.
Very cool.
And kind of a weird shout out.
This is more like a link that I found that people might like.
There's a short video called Triple Triple by Liz Dubelman, and you can check it out
at vidlit, V-I-D-L-I-T dot com, and you can find it from there.
I won't give you the long URL, but you can find it from there.
So, shouts to her, because I thought that was a really cool independent video, independent
film thing.
It was like eight or nine minutes, I think.
Mm-hmm.
And I had put that on the notes before we went to Freaknik.
Anybody else from Freaknik?
You know what?
Shouts to Dolanite.
Hey, you got to meet Alonka.
I'm sorry?
Oh, yes.
I did.
Oh, definitely shouts to Alonka.
And, you know, I talked to her about how I had read her.
I actually did, I had talked about her on the episode of the show quite a bit, that I had
read her DEF CON presentation.
I got to meet and speak with her.
Very, very nice.
Such a genuinely nice person.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
She's fantastic.
Yeah.
Genuinely nice person.
Genuine.
Mm-hmm.
She was very cool.
Gosh, I know I'm leaving someone out, so I apologize.
Dolomite.
I was going to already say Dolomite for putting the whole thing on.
Lissy, who was very nice.
Gosh, I'm sure I'm leaving someone else, and I guess Alonka can yell at me.
Locke.
Shouts to Locke.
He's from Tennessee area.
Friend of Voodoo Howls, who didn't make it.
Gosh, I think that's it.
I guess email us.
Anybody?
Did we leave anybody out?
I think we got them.
Is that it?
I'm sure we probably did, and, you know, sorry that we did.
Yeah.
Oh, well.
It's been a long night, and we're both sick.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
I drank my whole thing of iced tea sitting here, so I've got to go water down my throat here.
If you have email, I know I'm going to get hate mail for it, but radio at binrev.com if you want to give us feedback.
Our closing music this week is actually a little interesting.
I'm actually using a track called Now Get Busy from the Beastie Boys.
This is cool.
Now, the regular listeners know I end the show usually with independent music, stuff that I find freely available on the Internet.
A, because I believe in supporting the artists and stuff, and that's what I was working with.
It was, was it Ichabod?
Ichabod.
The presentation I get down with the RIAA.
Yeah.
It was just before yours.
I hope I got that name right.
I think it's how you say it.
Yeah, about talking to him about some of that.
But anyway, back to this.
In the current issue of Wired Magazine, which was in my mailbox when I got home from Freaknik,
they have a CD that has, oh, it's a full-length CD, 15 or 20 tracks, from artists that basically,
they put the CD together and released it under the Creative Commons license.
And a Creative Commons audio license at that.
I guess there's an audio, something that covers audio and allows people to not only distribute and reuse it within certain,
you know, certain guidelines, but also to remix it and use bits and pieces and parts of it as well.
So, I'm going to do that.
I'm going to play the first track off of that CD, which is from the Beastie Boys,
because I know there's a lot of Beastie fans out there.
So, we are going to close with that.
And, Acidus, I know you're still catching up on things there at home since you just got back.
And same thing with me.
I went to the doctor.
That was my first order of business.
And hopefully, over the next few days, we'll recover.
Yeah.
And you had more than...
I'm going to be visiting the Campus Wellness Center.
I can't believe they call it that tomorrow.
You had more than a beer with Decius.
That's all I'm going to say.
Oh, I did have more than a beer with Decius.
In fact, I don't really like beer.
It's either, you know, wussy girl drinks or shots.
We ran out of the wussy girl drinks pretty quick, unfortunately.
Let's just say that.
Okay, we'll leave it at that.
So, I guess we're going to wrap it up, and we'll wrap up the show and leave it at this,
and that is to tell everyone that we'll see them next week.
Same hack time.
Same hack channel.
We're the independent house of AK Dweller.
I can tell you about now, I'm not a fortune teller.
Grab a treat from you, you'll see my muffin seller.
Got mad technique like Rudy Vangela.
And yes, I got a plan, I'ma carry out it.
It's a pro-choice, I'ma scream and shout it.
It's a love life, and I try not to doubt it.
It's a gunna party, cause I'm bout it, bout it.
When it rains, I don't use an umbrella.
When the five-fives, I use in Della.
Believe, that will make you think.
Someone like water, that's your love to drink.
Now, get busy.
Sweet like a vodka filled with Nutella.
Be me like Duvalo Uzzarela.
Sneaking around, you know I play her while I play her like a peanut and a salt shell.
I can give a fuzz if it's a danger or fall-up.
Against a mini-hoony rap, you false fall-up.
Middle school rapper and a proud, yeah, call-up.
Thinkin' bout your grandma's overhead color.
From the east coast of what don't say, hella.
I don't like stand my performance in cell.
I can say plan and I'm listenin' better.
I'll give a little shoutin' if it's a man's ever.
Now, get busy.
No wonder ways I make you scream and holler.
I'm pouncing, cool to your queen, I'm a dollar.
Give a shout to zero, six to the child, holler.
I'm a student of the game and I'm gonna find a dollar.
We come on a porn, should I eat that coffin?
Putters on the table, now watch it soften.
Bringin' those beats and I'ma bringin' them puffin'.
I'ma keep rappin' when I'm in my coffin.
Like a mind-goin' man that is unwinding.
In a pattern room, the walls are climbing.
Don't climb on the line if it's a bindin'.
Get to get loose and find the lightning.
Now, get busy.