Welcome to the next generation of Hacking Information Exchange.
I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million JPEGs if you're in a fag pose.
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold.
I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo.
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream packs.
You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle.
Our exchange, you could never stifle.
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.
I bootlegged your CD. I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.
Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.
You feel that rattle in your bones when I tell you we just hacked out Jones?
And NASDAQ, leave you flat on your back?
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals.
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAMs, Sips, Sips.
This is dedicated to the hackers and...
I am starting the show off differently this time.
That was it.
That was differently.
I didn't start off with one of my standbys of
I am StankDawg and this is.
I didn't start off with
Alright, everybody.
I didn't start off with
You are listening to Binary Revolution Radio.
Actually, I guess I just did all three of them.
So I...
Oh, God, I suck.
I really suck at this radio thing, dude.
Have you noticed that?
No.
You're having me on
so I'm not going to bad mouth to host on the show.
That's what forums are for.
You're going to be doing all the talking on this show.
This show, of course, is episode 77.
We are Binary Revolution Radio.
I am StankDawg and the voice you heard
if you don't recognize by now
is none other than Black Ratchet.
Scary, huh?
And we are coming to you on January 4th, 2005.
Happy New Fear to everybody.
2005 is upon us.
So Binary Revolution begins again.
Actually, we're not beginning.
We're still ongoing.
We're in the middle of season two, I guess.
We didn't coincide with the beginning of January
when we started it.
So I'm not going to go with that kind of calendar.
So that's it.
And other than that,
I am pretty exhausted.
I got like an hour of sleep last night.
I got only three or four hours each night
for the last week.
So if I fall asleep,
Black Ratchet takes over the rest of the show.
You got that?
Woo-hoo!
Yay!
You got the show notes, right?
You can go ahead and...
In case I zonk out somewhere.
Oh, screw it.
Do you think I want to follow the show notes
if you fall asleep?
Oh, great.
It'll become like, you know,
Black Ratchet's Lounge.
This'll turn.
Bring in the lovely lady types.
Bow, check out.
Bow, bow.
Oh, book, book.
In Rave Radio, After Dark.
Well, it'll be like a redo of Episode 69.
Anyway, we actually have a very big announcement
coming up later in the show.
We have a new project.
It is completed.
And you'll have to...
We have to...
They're going to have to stick around
to hear what it is at the end of the show.
Because we've actually got some good email again this week
and a pretty interesting topic
that we're going to talk about for our main topic.
We're going to talk about wikis and what they are and how they work.
Wiki!
And how much I despise the term wiki.
I still, oh, I hate the word.
But anyway, let's jump into...
Oh, come on.
It could be worse.
It could be blog.
Well, blog's pretty annoying, too.
Yeah, I mean, but wiki's worse, isn't it?
I like wiki.
I think it's a fun term.
And I like the fact that the way you came up with it.
Yeah.
The way they came up with it.
And I'll cover that later on, but we won't get into that right now.
I wonder if there's a wiki-based blog.
Yes, it's called a...
Oh, shoot.
I bet you.
There is such a thing.
And it's called like a log or something.
I don't know.
I think it's called Suck.
Anyway, starting off the show very fun tonight.
Very light-hearted show.
And, oh, I'm sorry.
I almost left off our theme music.
Let's do the radio theme song, the email theme song here.
Yeah, no, no.
Da-da-da.
I'm going to leave that in now, you know.
All right.
So, our first email.
I am.
I'm leaving that in.
I'm not putting in our email theme music now.
Okay, fine.
That was our Beavis and Butthead.
Da-da-da.
Actually, it sounds a little bit like the Sports Center.
We might get sued or something.
Da-da-da.
Oh, dude.
I need sleep bad.
Can you tell?
Yep.
Yeah.
All right.
Anyway, let me see if I can get it together here.
And let's do some email.
First email says, Dear Stank Dog, how do you type emails with those boxing gloves on?
Oh, wait a minute.
Hold on.
This isn't mine.
Hold on.
I've got to forward this.
I know who this is for.
Forward.
Okay.
Oh, okay.
So, our second email.
Sorry about that.
Sorry.
I get this mistake.
People send me those emails sometimes.
Second email is from DS.
DS says, among some other things, but says, The show pones, but do more social engineering stuff, please.
Like, in episode 75 with the Microsoft guy.
Episode 75, of course, was the telephonic craptacular, which you were on that call with me, if I remember correctly.
And I got to serenade everyone with my singing voice.
I haven't actually listened to that episode yet.
I'm kind of scared of it.
Exactly, yeah.
But I have my iPod at work, so that's when I'm usually listening.
Yep.
Um, we, I was, you know, I was not sure if I was going to keep doing the craptaculars.
I don't know if people like them or not, but we did get some good feedback on it, so, um, I am going to keep on doing it.
However, they're pretty tough to do.
They're not as easy as, uh, we, we've got the show notes and topics down where we can plan ahead of time, do some research, get our thoughts together for a week on a topic,
and be prepared to present it and talk about it when the time comes for the show.
Whereas the telephonic craptacular type things are usually spontaneous stuff.
And that's why I do it every 75 is because it gives me, um, you know, 25, uh, what did I say?
Every 70, yeah, every 25, the most recent one being 75.
Yeah, I should do them every 75, but no.
It gives me 25 episodes, which is a few months to save some of the phone calls that we make here and there.
And sometimes I have more than others.
So, it's, uh, kind of difficult to do because I don't set out particularly to do it.
I just sometimes will think, um, this might be a funny call to make, save it, and then when the time comes, see if I have enough to fill up an hour show.
And I usually bury.
And that didn't happen on episode 75 because that Microsoft phone call was recorded Monday night at around 11.30 p.m.
Well, it started, and, and, yeah, we made a lot of calls.
We were on until like 2 or 3 in the morning.
There's stuff that didn't make the show.
Remember, well, never mind.
Anyway, that's a whole topic for another story.
But they don't, the point being, there's a lot of failed calls that suck and nobody wants to hear and that are boring.
And for every good one or every one that's usable that we find interesting.
So, there's a lot of them that just are no good.
And secondly, it takes time to just come up with what's, what hasn't been done.
You know, I, one thing I've, I've said I'm not going to do on the cramptaculars, not me personally, is I don't want to make it into a prank call show.
I don't mind playing, I don't, I don't mind playing one or two of them.
Or if somebody sent me, I'd put them in if I thought they were funny ones.
But I just don't want to make a whole show of just prank calls.
To me, that's not fun.
That's been done before, and there's plenty of websites where you can download prank calls and stuff like that.
That's not, I don't know, that just doesn't, that's not anything interesting or unique to me.
So, I just don't want to let it turn into something like that.
So, yes, we'll make some funny calls, but they're not like, you know, is your refrigerator running and do you have 10 pound balls or whatever.
How there's, I don't want to do stuff like that or just be annoying to people.
I want to be annoying to people with a purpose, that's all.
And I'm pretty good at that, if I say so myself.
I pride myself on that.
But anyway, back to this topic.
There is actually a new radio show coming out.
We talked about it when I ran down the shows before, and I can't give you a lot of detail right now because it's still in development.
But I can tell you that we do have a show on Saturday nights.
It's going to be exclusively on DDP Hack Radio that's going to have material that's probably closer to what this gentleman seems to be looking for.
It's probably going to be some prank stuff.
There's going to be some funny calls.
There's going to be some social engineering.
There's just going to be all kinds of stuff on that.
It's going to be a live, anything goes kind of deal.
The world's first reality radio show is what I've billed it as.
Definitely the first freaking reality show.
I am frankly quite excited.
Yeah, it's really going to be fun, and it's going to be freestyle, and it's going to be dangerous in some ways.
And we're just going to let that be part of the show.
That's what makes this a reality show is if people come on and say things that they shouldn't or do things that they shouldn't, that's part of the show.
So that's kind of one of the things that does make it exciting and make it unique.
So look forward to that, and of course we will announce more details on it when it comes closer.
The site is registered.
I haven't put up anything yet.
Probably just going to throw up a simple page.
And don't even know if we're going to offer the show for download.
It might be live only.
So unless somebody wants to record the stream out there and keep them, which I know some people do, that might be the only way you can get them.
I don't know that we're going to keep an episode.
That actually sounds like a good idea.
Yeah.
I just, because it's going to be like an all-night open mic night kind of deal.
So it's going to be a lot of this space.
So anyway, on to another email.
Email from IH827.
IH827.
Hey-oh.
Who says, what's up, StankDog and co-host?
That's you.
Nothing much, email sender.
Yeah, nothing much, email person.
Email sender number three.
Uh, he says...
Email sender number three.
What do you like about the beach?
What are your turn-offs?
If...
I wasn't going there, but thank you for crossing that line.
Oh, I was about to go vulgar and mention something about a hot dog, but I didn't even, yeah.
Those old corny date...
What was it, the love connection?
Is that what...
The dating...
Uh, dating...
I don't know.
Somebody...
You know who...
You know what?
Here's an email that I can guarantee you somebody knows this.
Pixel Fiend, email me and tell me.
I think it was...
Or was it the match game?
Oh, that could be it.
That could be it.
Pixel Fiend, email and confirm me.
I don't know what Pixel Fiend, bask in his TV tome knowledge.
He'll, uh...
He and I are from that, uh...
We remember that, so he'll correct me.
Um...
Shouts to Pixel Fiend, by the way.
Um...
Where was I here?
Man, I need sleep really bad.
What's up, Sank Dog and co-host?
I was looking at your project section, and I thought to myself, how great of a job DDP
is doing.
But I had an idea for DDP to offer hacking project challenges, or better yet, a contest.
Like modding computers, or seeing who can build the best useful invention.
Through forums, you can challenge the users to...
And that way, the users can participate by more than posting.
I would like to help out and give ideas to you guys, and...
And...
And what, man?
And what?
Don't leave me hanging here.
What?
You're gonna give me some money?
You're gonna kill everyone?
You're gonna make flying monkeys fly out of my ass?
What, man?
You left me with the half-written email.
I'm scared now.
Oh, man.
I'm all excited, and I'm like,
Oh, yay, give me ideas, and...
Oh, yeah, I'm...
Come on, man.
IH827, man.
You're gonna have to finish this up with me.
You're gonna have to...
You're gonna have to give me the rest of the story.
I need to know how it ends.
I can't sleep tonight now.
Anyway, anyway, joking aside, yes, thanks for noticing.
We do put out a lot of projects, and I pride myself on that.
I know we work hard to get this stuff done, and to do things, you know, right.
I like to think we try to make good quality, not just throwing stuff out.
We try to make stuff that's good and useful.
One of the ideas we did talk about was we kind of toyed with the idea of maybe making a war game project,
a hacking war games, whether it was a capture the flag, attacking a system kind of war game,
or a online hack this site, hack this challenge, figure out how to move through these levels kind of war game.
We've kind of talked about that, and we kind of decided that it's, A, it's been done to death.
There's just, there's a lot of them out there, and I would rather that people use them, you know.
I support other people's projects, not just their own, you know.
I don't have to reinvent it.
People have already got some stuff out there, and I made a section in the forums to promote them,
and encourage people to go out there and use them, and made some threads to get people motivated,
and, you know, IH827 there.
Go check that out.
Nobody seems interested.
Nobody uses it.
I mean, I can create a section.
I can put it out there, but I can't, I don't know.
People want to sit in the off-topic and talk about how much they hate politics,
or these certain politicians, and whatever, and they don't, I don't know why.
I'm not going to go off into a tangent about that, but there's just more noise and talk in the thread than there is actual content.
The Photoshop and GIMP thread, there's more people talking and posting comments than there are actually Photoshop entries or GIMP entries.
So...
Because no one's got skills.
Well, I certainly...
I'll put it out of the gauntlet right here.
Yeah, I certainly don't.
That's for sure.
I'm the first to say that.
So, yeah, I put those up, and you can go to forums.binrav.com if you're not familiar with the site,
and you can find, you have access to all this kind of stuff.
You'll see that we have the thread with the Hacking War Games,
and that's all I can do, really.
It's all I can have time to do.
I can offer to help you.
I can give you a place to communicate.
I'll create a nice thread, try to make it clean and organized so that you can keep it,
and give people the initiative to work on projects themselves.
You don't have to do it on my site or on my forum.
If you want to make your own site dedicated to it, that's fine, too.
But all I can do is give you what I can help as much as I can,
but I can't make people post.
I can't make people play these games.
I can't make people do it.
So, you know...
And again, this comes back to something I've said before.
This is really what separates people from me.
You know, there's people that talk, and then there's people that do.
And...
Amen.
I'm a talker, apparently.
I do a lot of talking.
Way too much.
No, yeah.
Just ignore the whole magazine, radio show.
Yeah, well.
The radio show.
That's talking.
Again, talk, talk, talk.
I'm a media whore.
Yeah, but it's content.
Content is king.
I'm going to change my name to StankDog225.
Media whore extraordinaire.
No, anyway.
Anyway, yeah, I can offer a place for people to communicate and work together and stuff
like that, but I can't make them.
You know, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
So, I really...
I can help as much as I can, but I really would like to see somebody.
I posted a thing saying if anybody's interested in kind of taking charge of this project, posting
some threads, becoming involved, and nobody does it.
And that's what I was saying before.
Talkers and doers.
And for DDP, that's what I've always looked at, people who do things and get things done
and get things accomplished.
You know?
That's what sets people apart.
That's what makes me notice people.
You know?
Your post count doesn't mean anything.
You know?
It's quality of the post, not quantity of the post.
Show me something productive.
That reminds me, I'm close to 500.
I should post some stuff on the forums.
I'm going to have to bump you back down.
You know that, right?
I'm negative.
My post count is negative, so, you know?
Actually, I guess I'm the biggest post whore, if we've got to come down to admit it, even
though I've still pulled out of the forums recently.
Yeah, the whole thing is that people are sitting there behind their keyboards, and they're going
to talk about how elite they are, and how they want to do this, and how they've done
that before, and you know what?
Show me the money.
Just get on there, show me, make some of these things happen, either in our forum, or
do it on your own.
Post us links to it.
I'll support it.
I'll mention it on the radio station, if you're doing a good job at it, and you're
being serious about it.
So, I'm telling this guy, IH827, okay?
This is to you.
I've never heard of you before.
I've never met you before.
We don't know each other.
You sent me this email.
I tell you what, this unfinished email.
If you're sincere, and you really are interested in something like this, email me.
Contact me.
And if you really have the time, contact me and try to make something happen with this.
Take charge of this project.
Step up to the plate and make it happen.
You know, somebody.
And I'm going to offer it to IH827.
If you really want to do this, I will help you as much as I can.
I'll give you advice.
I'll try to post occasionally if I can, if you want to take this on.
So, this is from me to you.
Never done this before.
Just, you emailed me.
You mentioned it.
There it is.
It's all yours.
Just, if you want the job, email me and let me know.
That's it.
Go for the gold, IH8.
Actually, I wonder if it's like IH8 or something.
IH827.
IH82T.
Maybe he doesn't like Kevin Rhoads' Dark Tangent T thing.
Hmm.
IH8.
IH82D.
Tootie Fruits?
I don't know.
No, Tootie from the Facts of Life.
Come on, Pixel Fiend.
Back me up on that one, too, brother.
Come on, now.
Tootie from the...
I know what you're talking about, but I can't.
Say, that's the last time I probably watched that.
I was, oh, five or so.
Yeah, I'm dating myself there, I guess.
All right.
Anyway, let's...
I'm going to speed up through the email, because we spend way too much time on the email, and
I'm slap happy.
I need sleep, so...
Our next email is from Gib Lee, who says,
Hey, I have featured you on my station at www.rfpooner.info.
I love your show, and just wanted to tell you about it.
So, there you go.
Shout-outs to rfpooner.info.
Thank you for putting the show on.
Also, what do you think about the Google account?
With Yahoo, you get free email, GeoCities, photo account, briefcase, and instant message.
There's actually a lot more to it than that.
I'm not going to sit here and name all of them off, but point taken.
Password gives you email, instant message, and groups.
Google gives you email and groups.
What do you think is the future of the Google account?
I've heard about a Google instant message services and a Google browser.
Since Google owns Blogger, do you think they may have a Yahoo GeoCities thing?
I'm really liking the AdSense ads instead of pop-ups or banners that flash and stuff.
If they keep it up, they will have a great service and give everyone a run for their money like they already have.
Again, thank you for putting the show on.
You're more than welcome to do it.
The more people will listen to it.
The more people that might learn something from it and like it or hate it, whatever.
You're welcome to do it.
I'm glad to hear it.
Anybody that wants to do that, email me.
Let me know.
I'll pimp the site.
Let people know that you're out there.
They can check your site out and give you some links.
As far as Google...
The more people spread it around, the more people offer IHateStankDog.com,
that will be...
Oh, yes.
That'll be...
The IHateStankDog community will be like triple the size of the BinRev community.
Because there'll be so much overlap, too, the hypocrites.
But anyway, that's...
Why are you pulling...
I am from the Kevin Rose fan club asking me to register the site.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
They...
Oh, yeah.
They'd swarm it, too.
You know, and the thing...
Well, never mind.
You're trying to get me in trouble.
No, me?
You're pulling me off to try to get me off topic and get me in trouble.
Okay, okay.
Bad.
Go back on.
Bad ratchet.
Bad black ratchet.
Google.
Yeah, Google...
I mean, there's not really much to add to this.
Google's the big dog.
We know that.
They're the ones, you know, running the block.
They're innovating.
You know, that's their whole thing.
Innovate and innovate quickly.
You know, that's their biggest thing.
They're jumping ahead of everybody else, and everybody else is playing catch-up.
So, like...
Well, even the search engine itself was light years ahead of everyone.
MSN's catching up.
The MSN search, that beta or whatever, and Yahoo search also is very close to it.
They're very similar now.
Might be too little too late.
I don't know.
But at least they're offering a much beefier search engine than they did in the past.
And one that kind of works.
That's the amazing part.
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty, you know, I've found similar hits on all of them.
So, yeah, they're offering that kind of stuff, too.
So, they're not staying still.
They're moving, too.
The biggest difference, though, is that with all the services that they're adding, they're not necessarily requiring you.
Some things require you to have an account, like Gmail.
But so much of their stuff is free.
I mean, they've got so many things in the Google Labs and so many features that you don't have to register and sign up for and give your life story and all that kind of stuff like the others.
That's a huge difference, and it's something that sets them apart.
I think they'll also go away from that, however.
I think they will end up making a universal account to access everything or at least to access advanced features of everything.
Well, they sort of have one already.
For example, when you sign up for, you know, you'll sign up one for email and you'll get, not the email, what's the other one?
You'll sign up for one that does postings and, you know, Usenet and all that stuff, and you get all the email and groups, and that works as a single sign-on.
And plus, when you do that, you can also get into the development program very easily.
It's not an automatic thing, but you can go over and say, hey, here's my email, here's my password, and they'll sign you into the development program.
I've been fooling around with that lately.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I have my developer account for a long time now that lets you embed Google into your pages and stuff like that and gives you some control over the type of searches and flavored searches or whatever you want to call it.
So, but they don't, I mean, they do require for some things, but not for everything.
You know, that's all.
Yep.
That's all.
And, yeah, I do think they will eventually, but right now they don't, and that's going to help them grow.
So, also, the biggest thing is that there's, Microsoft and Yahoo are trying to make money, they're burning their candles at both ends.
They're trying to make money on the front end and the back end.
And what I mean by that is they sell advertising on the site, like every other freaking internet site out there.
They make money from the advertising, selling all those stupid banners and all those links and sponsored and blah, blah, blah.
You know what?
That's fine in and of itself.
It can get annoying when they're too flashy and they allow them to get away with all these pop-ups and interactive Java this and et cetera, et cetera.
But the problem is that they're also, then on top of that, trying to charge you for advanced features like pop-3 access to your email, some of the games.
You know, they both offer games, which I don't think he mentioned.
They'll charge you for some advanced games or to get past certain parts of games and things like that.
They offer, you know, Yahoo does, Yahoo still offer the DSL services and stuff like that?
Or is that, I think they ended that?
I don't know.
But anyway, they're trying to make money off of you on the front end as well as advertisers on the back end.
And Google's not doing that.
Google's sticking with their traditional advertising model and not obtrusive, not popping up everything, not flash animations, and not shaking banners that says, choke the rabbit to win a free whatever.
That just sounds scary, but anyway.
Yeah, I guess I could have said chicken or something, but whatever.
See, that's what happens when you're, you know, popping off random things off the top of your head and you don't have any sleep.
So, man, you're going to have to take over the show in a few minutes because I'm, whew, man, this is rough.
So, yeah, the bottom line is it's going to take time to see how it shakes out.
I don't, you know, I think Google's the biggest, the biggest dog in the fight.
So, you know, my money's on them.
So, we'll see.
Right now, indeed, they are the front runner, but you can just tell that there's something going on on the horizon and it is coming.
Well, they're not, you know Microsoft isn't giving anything up.
Oh, hell no.
You know, Microsoft is definitely going to be in there fighting no matter what.
They know, you know, they know.
They see that market share and they're just, like, drooling.
Exactly, exactly.
I think there was actually a thing on television yesterday.
I don't watch a whole lot of it, but I happened to flip through and saw a thing about Google.
I watched, like, five or ten minutes of it was all, I think it was, like, some kind of news, one of those news 60 Minutes shows or something.
Yes, it was on 60 Minutes.
Oh, I got it right.
How about that?
So, I didn't get to see it.
I didn't see it either.
I just heard a bunch of rumors about it today on various postings.
I watched it.
And I talked to one of my, uh.
Go ahead.
I talked to one of my customers today about it.
Ah.
I, um, I just watched it for a few minutes and, you know, it was interesting.
I, if anybody recorded that, get in touch with me.
That's all.
No other reason.
Just want to say hi.
Exactly.
No copyright violations going on here.
Just saying, tell me what you thought of it.
If you, of course, have it recorded.
Otherwise, then, you know.
Okay.
So, anyway, that's that.
Not much to add about the whole Google, Yahoo, MSN.
That's pretty much played out.
I think it's, I mean, I don't know.
Actually, this next email mentions it, too.
This is from somebody called,
As We Think We-ism.
Stank Dog.
I don't know if you've been aware, but Yahoo is starting another service.
If you thought they don't offer everything you really don't care about,
they are now offering traffic reports for major U.S. cities.
What's really stupid is the representative went to the Associated Press saying that the format would make it much more useful.
Google is saying that the format that would make it much more useful, that is PDA format, in parentheses, will not be available.
Google has been up to really interesting projects in their labs, and I mentioned that earlier.
It's labs.google.com.
And I fear that Google is heading down the path that Yahoo has went these past years.
What do you think about this?
Well, first of all, I don't think I ever said that they don't, they meaning Yahoo, or that don't offer useful services.
My start page is still my.yahoo.com.
I customize my Yahoo page, especially since they started adding the support for RSS feeds.
So that's still the best start page.
I know MSN offers them.
A whole bunch of sites offer customized start pages.
I still start on that because I have rootsecure.net right there.
I have Slashdot, I have any of the RSS feeds that interest me right there on my page, as well as sports scores, my stocks that I watch, stock ticker going on, news headlines, stuff like that.
So my Yahoo is still the king to me as far as customized, personalized start pages.
So, you know, I don't want to think that they don't have anything to offer or don't have anything useful.
Do you know of anything better?
I mean, what is your start page?
Is it Google?
Slashdot.
It is Slashdot.
Okay, you start up.
A lot of people start up on Slashdot.
I kind of do because it's in my Yahoo page.
Well, they've recently really started taking a hit performance-wise.
And it's taking, it's more than likely now I've actually been loading up a blank page and by the, you know, or at least it looks like it by the time I click away from it.
They've been having some performances on their servers.
Taking a big drink of chocolate milk there.
I thought I could get disconnected here.
No.
I do suspect that Google is going to come through with something similar.
I mean, they have news.
They have news on there now.
They have Frugal.
So they can pimp and put deals and specials and stuff like that.
They've got news feeds.
They've got, I'm sure they can get, or if they don't already have sports scores and things like that.
I bet you Google will offer a customized content portal soon.
I wouldn't be surprised.
And also, he says that, like, you know, because Labs is looking into certain things, it's looking like they're going in the way of Yahoo.
Labs looks into a lot of stuff that, and they provide stuff to people to playing against, A, for feedback, and B, you know, it's just more of, we're looking into a certain thing, but we really don't want to tell you what we're doing with it right now.
So we're going to provide another application for you that, A, we can test on, B, we can give public reaction to, C, you can look at it, and, you know, D, we can test.
Right.
So a lot of stuff that they do, I've, you know, I've seen it shown up in certain areas, like, you know, their lists and everything, I don't know, was basically a real big play on their, like, you know, did you mean X things, and that's what it really looks for.
Like, you know, it's really just expanding the search capability.
So while, yes, Labs works on a lot of things, and a lot of it is you look at it and say, oh, why the heck are they doing this?
It's because, it's just they're providing a front end of something that they need on the back end, and they'll just incorporate the back end to something else.
Right.
And that's a very common practice.
A lot of sites do that.
You know, they're using the, you know, they're using the audience out there to beta test for them somewhat.
And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that.
The users are getting something useful out of it or interesting out of it, so.
Oh, I think Labs is awesome.
I think they come up with some really cool stuff.
I mean, you can tell, like, some of their stuff, like, you know, Google by phone.
Yeah, okay, that's more like probably just like a pet project to somebody, but you never know.
Yeah, I mean, well, wasn't it always, you know, the whole scientist versus marketing department?
It's like, you guys just develop stuff, we'll figure out where to use it.
We'll figure out how to apply it and make it useful, you know?
I think it's to an extent of that, but I just think it's, they're working on certain things,
but, like, you know, it's very much, like, you know, I believe what they do is they have someone go there
and, like, you know, I think every, or Coot, their online community, whatever,
basically that started as you're allowed one day every week to work on pet projects.
Yeah.
And I think that's what a lot of, I think that's what some of the stuff Labs just started out as.
Hmm.
Interesting.
What, did you just fall off the roof there?
What happened?
No, I didn't do anything.
Why?
Oh, big crash or something there on the phone.
This phone conversation brought to you by Voice Pulse and New Phone.
Oh, wow, there we go.
There's the answer.
Let's see.
Oh, yeah, but also, actually, this, I wanted to talk about this email because it is kind of a dumb move here.
That could be useful on a PDA especially.
I mean, you're in your car, you can look up driving at the last minute,
look up where traffic information or weather information or any of that kind of stuff,
but they're not going to offer it on the PDA?
That seems kind of silly.
I don't know.
I mean, you can look at it before you leave your house,
but frankly, I don't get up and look at my computer first thing in the morning, believe it or not,
contrary to popular belief.
I spend a lot of time on it in the evenings, but I don't get up and check it in the morning.
I get up just enough time to hit the shower, hit the door running,
screech my way into work right on time, sometimes.
So, I don't budget extra time in the morning for the computer.
So, yeah, it would be much more handy on a PDA, but there could be any number of reasons for that.
I mean, it may be an outsourced product, maybe they've just licensed it,
and they're not allowed to use it in certain ways.
Maybe someone else has a patent on that.
There could be so many different things.
Oh, see, I had not thought of that.
That's actually a very good point.
I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened.
Yeah, there could be any number of reasons.
So, yeah, it does sound kind of stupid, but what are you going to do?
And just because they don't do it themselves does not mean that you can't do it yourself.
Well, and absolutely right.
And actually, that's kind of a good segue.
These last couple emails here are feedback to us.
We got some good feedback about last week.
We were talking about using a PDA for VoIP, for voice over IP, and what options there were and stuff like that.
We got some good information.
Voodoo Howl posted some information in the forums.
Again, forums.binrev.com.
And we got a couple emails.
The first was from Nick84.
And Nick84 says,
On the last show, someone was asking about Pocket PCs, Packet Sniffers, and VoIP.
I have a HP 5450 running PowerPC, excuse me, PPC-2003, Pocket PC, not Power PC, addition, which can run Mini Stumbler, also for VoIP.
Skype has, has, has or have, has a PC, PPC client.
When I tried an early beta version a while ago, it worked out, but the audio quality was not that great.
There are a couple of other people doing PPC VoIP clients, and I believe some providers are offering it as an extra service, but I can't remember who offhand.
There is also this site, which has some handy tools for PPC.
And I tinyurled that site.
When I say that site, it's tinyurl5ps, as in Photoshop, 9e, as in elephant.
So, there's a...
5, Papa, Sierra, 9e, Echo.
Oh, good grief. Hammer.
Uh, 5, PS9e.
So, yes, go check that site out for some cool tools.
And another email.
This is from, this one actually comes from the webmaster of pdafreak.biz.
Who says, Binrev Crew, regarding the listener's mail about VoIP on the pocket PC, and to blatantly exploit this opportunity, head over to pdafreak.biz, specifically to how to use a pocket PC as a Wi-Fi phone at pdafreakbiz slash freak slash Wi-Fi phone dot html.
Uh, I have, I use Vonage and have been pleased with the $10 a month soft phone line and SJ phone.
Note that the numbers, note that phone numbers are passed in the clear when using public Wi-Fi.
Oh, that's a very, very important point.
I'm glad that's a good, good thing to bring up.
Very true, very true.
You can have all the color ID blocking, et cetera, et cetera, you want, but, hmm.
Um, as for the PPC sniffer, there's Air Scanner Mobile Sniffer, uh, airscanner.com.
Supported, support stopped at PPC 02, so no dice for WMO3 and 03SE.
Then there's, then there's VX Sniffer from cam.com, uh, which costs $60.
There is a free trial, though.
And I'm not reading out all these long URLs, but, uh, let's see, what else, well, before I go to that.
Bonus for Freaks with PDAs, I coded handheld-friendly pages for the Telefreaks dial-ups, for Telefreaks dial-ups.
And this prompted them to create an entire small screen-friendly Telefreak.org.
It's at Telefreak.org slash mini.
Thanks for the great show.
And I'm going to bookmark that.
Hello.
Thanks for the great show.
And, again, webmaster of pdafreak.biz.
Now, again, he gave us a lot of links here, but, frankly, go to pdafreak.biz and you'll find all that and a lot more.
Um, it's a great site.
If you're a freak with a PDA, and there are a lot of them now, PDAs are really a cool, handy device.
I need to get one myself, a good one, instead of junky ones that I have, the old ones.
I need to break down and get a new one.
I'm thinking of that HPX.
No, is it the Motorola MPX?
That's looking pretty cool, where I can combine the PDA and PowerPocket PC with the phone and everything.
Might break down and get that.
I'll look into that one.
I haven't heard of that.
Oh, yeah.
That looks really, really cool.
It's not out yet, but it should be out.
I think they said the second half of 05 or first half of 05 or something.
And, actually, I would like to say that last week I did say that there, I believe there
is no such thing as a free, user-customizable PDA Wi-Fi phone client.
That is a lie, sort of.
Liar.
There's something called X-Lite.
And what X-Lite is, it is a free, SIP-compliant, GSM, G723, and G711U-compliant Wi-Fi phone.
And what it does, now, what happened is they do not make it anymore.
However, you can still find it in bits and pieces on the Internet.
I had to look for it a little bit on Google, but I was able to find it, and I was able
to install it, and I was sort of able to connect it to my asterisk box.
I'm having a problem on my asterisk end, but once that all is figured out, I figure it
should work like a charm, because it appears to work fine.
I worked it up on a couple other SIP servers, and they work fine.
But other than that, it's a really good program, from what I can tell, and I'm just really
going to sit down and flake around on my asterisk box.
Cool.
Good information.
So this is very, this is a hot topic.
A lot of people are interested in this kind of stuff right now, so there's a lot of information
popping up on a daily basis, it seems like.
So keep your eyes open in the forums, and around, and email us, and post in the forums
if you find some good stuff, because there are definitely lots of people interested in
this exact topic right now.
And again, to PimpPDAFreak.biz.
That's P-D-A-P-H-R-E-A-K dot B-I-Z.
Again, there's a lot of cool information on there.
And the pictures.
There's some really cool pictures of different pay phones in different places.
Pay phones?
What?
Yeah, different pay phones, and courtesy phones, and all kinds of different phones.
There's, the picture of the pay phone in the bathroom stall, that's classic.
That's such a great picture.
You've got to go check the site out.
P-D-A-Freak.biz.
I'm going to go to the bathroom.
Yeah.
And that's, do you really want to touch a phone that's in the bathroom stall?
Because who knows?
Never mind, I'm going to back off that so fast.
That's why they have toilet paper.
I didn't say toilet, anyway.
Our last email, I'm going to quickly get on to a main topic here.
Our last email comes from a Mr. Miller, who says,
Hello, Mr. Dog.
I was just listening to the third telephonic craptacular
and felt I had to add my two cents to the topic of the big bells being in bed with the FCC.
Now, I do not believe that any blame can be placed on the bells themselves.
They have every right to attempt to wring every last red cent out of their customers that they can,
within the full extent of the law, that is.
Well, let me stop for a little bit.
Any blame?
No, I won't go that far.
I do think they deserve some blame because they're giving –
they're the ones that are lobbying and pushing the FCC,
and if you don't think they're giving false information, skewed information,
statistics that serve their purpose,
falsifying them to make it look better for them to make the FCC make decisions,
I think that's kind of naive.
Please contact me.
I have a bridge to sell you.
Yeah.
I think that's very, very naive.
See, what's with the .org?
.org or .org?
Because, I mean, you got orgy on the mind?
Is it a Freudian slip?
It's .org.
.organization.
It's, you know, it's a –
.org.
Hey, that would be a good –
That would be a proper pronunciation.
Yeah, that would be a good –
well, it's not orginization.
It's organization.
I want to get .dot.
.dot.
Oh, good grief.
.dot.
.slash.
.
Remember, when slash. first came out,
that was, like, the funniest URL because it was –
you were trying to describe it to people.
.dot.com.
.
Whatever.
Well, me and Rob Baldo, we want the .dot domain.
So he can have, like, you know,
hdp colon slash slash slash dot dot dot.
All right, man, you almost made me spit out my chocolate milk there.
That could be messy.
Anyway, so, yeah, I don't think –
I don't blame the Bells as much as I blame the FCC.
Don't get me wrong.
I do think it's the FCC's fault because they're the ones ultimately making these decisions.
But you're foolish to think that the Bells are not having some influence to make those – push those decisions.
So, he says, this is just capitalism.
The problem, I believe, lies with the laws set forth by the FCC that allow these big Bells to walk all over their customers.
Well, again, I just said I think they influence that.
And he goes on to some other stuff here that I'm not going to read all of this because it kind of gets political and we're not a political show.
But I'll just say that there is, frankly, an interesting parallel here.
There's a parallelism about the function of the FCC and what their job is and what their description and what their goal is.
And, number six, from the Communist Manifesto, which is Government Control of Communication and Transportation.
I'm just saying it sounds awfully – very closely related.
I mean, that's – you know, people might not like to hear that, but I do seem to think there's some merit there.
But I'm not going to read all of these nine, ten planks of communism and all that kind of stuff.
If you're interested in that parallel, you can go do some Googling for it.
So that's all I'm going to talk about.
It's on Project Gutenberg, I believe.
Yeah, I think it probably – I think you're right.
And you can read about the parallelism itself and make your own decision.
I don't want to go into, you know, politics.
So let's move on to the show and tell, actually.
Let's get out of email, do a quick show and tell, and then go into our main topic of the night.
I tell you what, since I'm talking and you're going to take over the rest of the show once I'm done,
I'll go ahead and go first because I've been having some hardware problems related to Hack TV.
Video editing, especially high-quality files, which we do everything in DV format, raw, DV AVI format,
very extremely high-quality video footage, and it just has such a huge overhead.
It requires a powerful machine.
Obviously, the more powerful, the better.
Up to this point, I've been doing it on a P4 2.4, but it's slow-going and limited, frequent – I won't say frequent, but occasional crashes.
So I upgraded to a new box.
I got a P4 3 gigahertz box dedicated to doing this, but I only had 512 of RAM.
And, frankly, I was getting not responding, applications locking up.
It's just not enough memory.
When you've got a 14, 15 gigabyte AVI file that you need to edit and try to clip together and stuff,
and you've got to load 15 gigs into 512 megs of memory, something's got to give, you know?
So I upgraded the hardware on that to a gig of memory, and I've been working again on that, so that's coming along.
And, actually, I have a little rant.
I had a – while I was out shopping for that memory, memory and more tapes, more mini DV tapes for my camera,
I went out, found some tapes on sale, searching the interweb, and I came across this site called ecost.com.
Now, I don't know if anybody's familiar with it, ecost.com.
I actually hesitate to mention their URL on the air because I don't want anybody to use them.
They have the problems I did.
But, basically, they had these tapes that were on sale, and, first of all, it was a pain to try to find the damn things,
to put them in my cart and figure out how their process worked.
It wasn't as straightforward as it should have and could have been.
But what I didn't like about it is, very clearly, it says on the site,
no shipping for orders over $25.
So, I'm like, okay, great.
You know, I ordered this thing, and I ordered something else.
I had, like, a $30 order in my cart.
It should have been no shipping.
And to check out of this, they don't let you do it without creating an account.
They won't let you do it with just an email address.
They require you to create an account, first of all.
Well, that alone usually turns me off from a site.
But this was a good deal.
I needed the tapes.
I was going to go through with it anyway and give them my spam email address to confirm it or whatever.
And I went ahead and went through that process.
And then at the very last second, after confirming, yes, here's my information, here's my credit card number,
I verified the quantities, et cetera, et cetera.
At the very last second, on the last page, it says click here to finalize order.
Bam.
Shipping, $0.
Handling charge, $4.99 or $4 or something like that.
Now, Helen, that's just, that's just, I'm sorry, but that's just fucking rude.
That's just sickening.
That turns my stomach.
To put it on the last page like that, I mean, that's a bald-faced lie.
Free shipping, oh, but there's a handling charge.
We didn't mention that anywhere except on this very last page.
Did they mention that there was no handling charge?
No, of course not.
Of course not.
Now, there is, that's an exercise left for the consumer.
Yeah, and the thing is, and you know everybody, I probably, there is a little thing that says to calculate your final total,
put in your zip code or something like that.
Well, I'm like, listen, you're going to make me go to the account anyway, so I'm just going to go through the process.
Maybe if I put the zip code in, it would have then told me about the handling charge before, but nobody does that.
You're going to decide you're going to go through with the order.
You go through the process.
They can't drop that on you at the last minute.
That's ridiculous.
Oh, but they can, and they have.
And they did, and now I'm in their stupid database.
I'll probably get spam from them.
Luckily, I gave them my crappy spam account, but I'm going to be in their database.
Who knows who else they'll sell that database to now, and I didn't even get what I wanted.
I didn't even go through and buy the damn thing.
I canceled at the last minute.
I don't go for tactics like that.
I'll get them somewhere else.
I don't need you.
That's what best lies for, ripping me off.
Not anymore, though.
I've gotten off of that kick, too.
So, yeah.
It's free.
It's free from the horrors of Best Buy and eCost.com.
I'm terribly sorry.
My UPS has been beeping in the background.
Oh, I don't think it's coming through, so don't worry about it.
Okay.
And the only other thing I wanted to mention was that I also installed the new Clusty toolbar for Firefox.
Now, some of you might remember it was on episode 65.
It was quite a few months ago, actually.
I mentioned about Clusty, Clusty.com search engine, and how cool I thought it was, and about how it clusters the search results, and it was based on or similar to the Vissimo, except that it was a little bit more independent.
Well, I guess people are starting to find out how cool it is, the interest is starting to grow on that, and what kind of cool relationships you'll find between what you're looking for and some other things you might not have thought of.
So, go out there and do a Clusty search for yourself or for your handle or nickname and see what else they have you associated with.
You might be surprised.
So, there's a toolbar for Firefox, a plug-in.
Go check that out.
That's kind of a cool thing to me.
I've got it and use it occasionally, so I just wanted to let people know about that.
Yeah, I found that out on Kevin Rose's site.
Oh, really?
I'm sorry.
Did you say episode 65 of BinRev Radio several months ago?
Oh, yes.
That's what I've been.
Sorry.
Yeah, okay.
For a second there, I thought you said something else, but no.
Oh, geez.
It must be voice pulse.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay, see, voice pulse makes us say things like that.
How about show and tell?
What do you got, man?
What do you got going on?
Oh, past week, like I said, I've been fooling around with Asterisk a little more.
I've been just goofing off and doing crazy things with that with a couple of my friends,
and we've been popping our Asterisk boxes together so we can just dial each other direct and reach all of our extensions.
We've been basically setting up our own little telephone company over the wide web of the Internet.
Yeah, everybody's got their own telephone company these days, thanks to Asterisk.
Yeah, Asterisk is, I will not say, I'm not exaggerating, it is literally the best thing since sliced bread.
I'm talking to you over it right now.
It is very cool.
It is just completely awesome.
Yeah, it absolutely is.
It really is.
And I've been taking, I've been having fun making my own custom error messages.
I've been pulling stuff off phone trips.com, which is recordings of old 1970s phone systems,
and viewing the recordings there for my own nefarious purposes.
Uh-huh.
All right, and what else you got going on?
Well, that's about it.
I've been concentrating on work a little bit, and besides that, I've been goofing off on Asterisk.
And I've been working on something else, which I might mention later on.
Don't know yet.
All right, well then, let's jump into our main topic tonight.
Wiki!
Yeah, kind of a branch off of last week.
And here's how it's going to work tonight.
Last week, I wanted to get this wiki information in, which, I'm sorry, this Mambo information in,
which is a content management system, and I pretty much dominated the entire conversation
because I was trying so hard to get all my material in at the end of the show.
So today is payback.
Today you've got the show.
Let me see how we're set here.
You've got at least a half an hour, at least a half an hour, and you're going to talk about Wiki.
I'll probably pop in with some questions or something about it,
but Wiki is something that you've had some experience with,
and a lot of people might have heard the name but never played with it before,
so I thought we'd kind of do a little, well, not a little overview,
just a downright analysis of exactly what it is, how it works, and that kind of stuff.
So Crash Course in Wikis.
Go for it.
Brought to you by Professor Ratchet.
Well, what we're going to start off with is what exactly is a wiki.
And a wiki is what you would call something called social software.
It's designed to be a completely collaborative web page.
It's basically designed to be run by a community.
Any person, anybody, anywhere, complete stranger off the Internet, you know,
can edit and create and design and reformat any part of the website.
Basically what you could say is one step above a forum,
where instead of someone like, you know, I'm signing on to Bidrev,
and I have like, you know, hey, check out this cool new website,
and like, you know, people commenting, you know, hey, that website sucks, you're a noob.
People can just like, you know, go up and edit my post exactly and say like, you know,
oh, man, this website stinks.
We should have never posted it on the forum in the first place.
Yeah, I know.
And just like, you know, instead of creating threads that people can comment on,
you can basically edit the original thing and just have a thread within the web page.
And not even have a thread.
I mean, you can just like correct typos if you want to.
So basically one of the key concepts of a wiki is that mistakes are easier to fix
rather than mistakes being hard to fix.
Like a very good example of this is Slashdot.
And I'm not trying to knock Slashdot in any way.
Like I said, I have it from my home page.
I love it.
It's a very good news site.
But like, you know, every once in a while, one of the editors, like, you know,
posts this website or posts this story, and it's either, you know,
a duplicate of something that happened last week or, like, you know,
just something that's completely wrong or, you know,
if someone knows it's a hoax, and like, you know,
all the little trolls in the comments section, you know,
comment on how the editors and noob and everything.
Are you going to say something?
No, I'm just agreeing with you.
All the trolls in the comments.
I mean, I've never, there's so many trolls.
Slashdot has their own troll community.
It's quite scary.
It really is.
They are incredibly organized.
It's kind of, it's freaking almost.
The anonymous coward army.
Not even that.
It's like, they create accounts, which is really weird.
But, you know, basically what would be solved in this,
if it was a wiki, is that any of these people in the peanut gallery
can come up and, you know, edit the article saying, like, you know,
oh, this was duplicate from last week.
You know, here's some other stuff we found about it.
But basically, if you want to find anything out about it,
go to this link that we posted last week.
Or they could delete the article altogether.
And that's basically what the concept of a wiki is.
Well, but let me ask, let me ask you this, though,
because you made the statement that it's kind of a step above a forum,
which I kind of see what you mean by that.
But by the nature of a forum and it being, uh-oh,
by the nature of the, yeah, I think I've got another call breaking through
that I'm just going to have to ignore.
I should drop their docs on the air and read their number out loud to everybody.
Oh, that was very cool.
I heard the beep go through.
Oh, yeah, there you go.
All right, it's gone.
That's what's called, that's a term that we made up a few years ago
called having your show RFA'd.
Radio Freak America.
I should have disabled that other line.
But anyway, got to have an RFA in the show every once in a while.
What I was going to say was you mentioned about the threads and, you know,
you mentioned the forum and posting and threads.
Well, by the nature, you have topical threads,
logical topical threads that lend to being replied to in order or in sequence.
With the wiki, it becomes important to maintain a logical,
because of the, because of, like you said, it is so freestyle,
it could, it has the potential to be very chaotic,
whereas a forum by nature is very, very strict.
You know what I'm trying to say?
It's a very strict layout, and it follows a certain pattern.
Right.
And that is one of the problems with wiki.
I used to refer to it as wiki syndrome.
Like, you know, when you start having a lot of people
who just really don't pay attention to what other people are doing,
you start running, you have, like, a wealth of information there,
but it's just so hard to get to.
And it's one of the drawbacks.
I will admit, it isn't perfect, but it is a very interesting term,
and a very interesting setup.
And, like, you know, with replacing, like, you know, going back to the forum analogy,
it is kind of freestyle, but you can, like, you know, pump up certain sections.
Like, you know, if I have a site that a lot of people like, you know,
and it starts feeding into research,
people can start posting other information about the site.
Whoa, geez, I talked to, I actually, you know, did the who is on the guy,
and I called him up the other day, and we had a nice conversation.
And, like, you know, people can just edit it in.
So, and once you move to, like, sort of a less malleable state,
like, you know, everything basically has been documented about this,
you have this wonderful, like, you know, glob of information sitting on your site
that you can link into other things.
And that's basically one of the main advantages of it is a nice, you know, pre-digested bit,
and then, like, you know, if something doesn't fit in,
you can go and edit that post later and, you know, like,
change it all around a little more to make it sort of have more sense.
It's just everyone can edit it, everyone can make sure it has sense,
and everyone can contribute to it.
Does that make even a little more sense?
Yeah, and I still hate the word wiki, just for the record.
Well, actually, the term wiki comes from back in 1995.
The guy who first wrote his name was Ward Cunningham.
He came up with the wiki concept and came up with the first engine
for the Portland Pattern Repository.
And he came up with the term wiki, wiki, web.
Did you say suppository?
Repository, close enough.
Okay, whatever.
He came up with something called wiki, wiki, web,
and it was the first engine of the wiki.
And the interesting part is, which I never knew this,
I found this out when I was doing research on it,
the term wiki, it wasn't coined by Cunningham,
but he's the one who brought it back into the entire concept.
He was at the Honolulu International Airport,
and he had a shuttle bus following wiki, wiki buses,
because wiki, wiki in Hawaiian means quick.
And so rather than calling his new website the quick web,
he called it the wiki, wiki web.
Oh, please, a quick web would have been so much better.
Quick web would have been so much better.
Oh, come on.
Quick web.
You get like, you know, have you seen the new quick?
I mean, just it's like, have you seen the new wiki?
It just sounds so much cooler.
One word.
Man, you're breaking up.
Are you downloading?
Something's, man, we're getting RFA'd bad today.
Breaking up really bad.
I think someone's using eMule.
Oh, yeah, I guess I could be, too.
Let's see what's going on here.
This conversation brought to you by NuFone.
Yeah.
I bet you, yeah, let's, I'll take, I'll see if I can square that away.
Anyway, you keep going with how cool wiki is when it really isn't.
Hopefully it's not me,
because I'm not sure what's going on at my interconnection.
Okay.
That's what it is.
It's basically, you know, wiki.
And, you know, a lot of people say, you know, what is it good for?
And it was really geared for just sort of knowledge repositories.
And, like, you know, there's a couple of good ones out there
that I'll get into a little later.
What I was first introduced to it as was a small work group at my college.
They used it for collaboration between projects.
It was a student-run group in the College of Computer Science,
and they used to maintain systems.
And just out of curiosity, am I breaking up anymore?
No, everything's all right, it seems like.
It sounds good.
Oh, it spoke too soon.
Go ahead.
And that's where I got introduced to it.
It was a small group, and they used to use it,
and they used to post all their little experimental projects,
much like labs.
But anyway, and that's where they used to keep information.
And I saw it.
I thought it was pretty interesting.
And then I thought nothing of it.
And where I really cut my teeth on it was where I worked,
they were having basically a – they wanted to keep notes on certain things,
and they basically had a bunch of projects that they wanted to collaborate on,
and they just kept it in, you know, separate Word files.
And they used to have the big complaints of, like, you know,
only one person can edit at a time, and there's certain problems with it,
and there's no revision control.
So, you know, wherever this little wiki thing was sitting in the back of my mind,
I said, well, I have this – I know this program that basically does all the stuff you want to do.
Do you want me to try to set it up?
And they said, okay.
So I sat down, and I set it up, and I started playing with it.
And I used something called K-Wiki, or Quickie, as you would call it.
See, that's another terrible thing about wiki is all the stupid puns that come out of it,
like wiki-tiki-tave, and twiki, and – oh, jeez.
Quick Web would have been so much better.
You noob.
Yeah.
You don't know good marketing when it comes up to you and who's on your shoe.
Quickie, quickie, come on.
Come on. It's cool.
All right, fine. I'll pretend it's cool for you.
Yeah, you better. I'm running the show now.
I killed emule.
I got introduced to it, and everyone loved it, and they all started using it,
and it basically answered a lot of their problems.
And once I started seeing, like, you know, how a group of people can really start using it,
I started saying, well, this is actually pretty good.
And, you know, I looked into it a little more, and I saw a couple of sites that ran it.
And it is a very interesting concept.
It does have its drawbacks, and there are some problems with it, but, you know,
because anyone can really mess up the site.
But there are some built-in structure controls.
But it's especially good for small groups working together who want to collaborate.
And, of course, it also scales very, very well.
There's also projects out there called Wikipedia, which is basically a group of people trying to get everything documented in the Encyclopedia
into a completely free source.
Yeah.
And it also is very cool.
The cool thing about that is it includes pop culture references and slang and tech terms and relate references and things like that.
I actually – I don't want to say this out loud, but I used to go to something called Everything 2, and it was a lot like Wikipedia.
And, you know, any time I couldn't really find something on, like, you know, the normal searching methods, I used to go over there.
And I used to have a pretty good hit ratio.
But really, Wikipedia has really taken that over for me.
I mean, it's got crazy stuff in there, like everything you could possibly want to know when you were free to ask.
Yeah, it's a very cool site.
Indeed.
So, anyway, you know, it's very interesting.
And the way it's set up is that basically every page has its own kind of independent node.
It's kind of like a glob of information.
And what you can do is you can take each node and link them together and really follow logical thought patterns.
It's really like the original idea of hypertext.
Hypertext was designed to just, like, you know, click every link and take you somewhere.
And, you know, wikis really try to do that.
You can try to take it up one more notch.
And it's very close to what Tim Berners-Lee tried to go for.
Once pages are kind of linked together, what you could say is a matrix kind of forms.
And you can start following, you know, if I go on to some website and I start clicking around and I start going out and, like, you know,
I run into something on, like, you know, freaking.
And it's like, you know, freaking is getting free phone calls.
So I can go in and say, well, you know, let me edit this page.
And I can just fill out all kinds of crazy information, like, you know, talk about asterisk.
And I can start beefing up the site.
Me, as a complete stranger, can contribute to the site and make it better.
And once that comes in, you start kind of growing and growing and growing.
And it's just, it really just takes off.
And it works out very well for, like, you know, as a centralized process for editing pages and working around it.
All right, so we've established it.
I'll give it credit.
I'm kind of half-joking when I'm bashing it.
I just, the word wiki doesn't exactly roll off my tongue very well.
But honestly, it's got, yeah, it sounds too cartoony.
But it does have some pretty cool uses.
For collaboration, I mean, it really is a pretty cool tool for that.
But, I don't know, unless it's, it seems to be made for certain types of things, like Wikipedia and what else?
I mean, there's other stuff like that that it's just made for.
Well, it's basically, what a wiki is, it's just, it's a knowledge repository.
That's what it really was originally intended for.
That's what works out best.
And that's what a good 95% of them are.
You see them used in other applications.
And I look at them as, it's like, you know, trying to kind of fit a round peg, a square peg into a round hole.
So, I mean, there's a lot of good projects out there, but most of them are kind of knowledge-based.
Like, there's Wikipedia, of course, you know, wikipedia.org.
And they have a couple of other sites that they use.
It's actually run by a nonprofit group.
I found that out today.
It's based in Florida.
And they have a couple of sub-projects.
And one of the biggest ones is Wiktionary, at wiktionary.org, W-I-K-T-I-O-N-A-R-Y.
There's a link to it off Wikipedia.
And it's basically sort of like Wikipedia, except it's secured to be a dictionary.
And there's another one called Meatball Wiki, which is a wiki about wiki communities.
And that's at usemod.org.
Wait a minute.
Man, it's not a wiki about meatballs?
No, I thought it was that, too.
I was looking for a good submarine purpose.
It couldn't mean submarine sandwich recipe, but oh well.
Darn it.
And actually, one of the four fun ones I've encountered is MemoryAlpha.org, which is a
community wiki by Star Trek Geeks.
And they basically have tried to make every Star Trek episode and document it and tell
all the little stupid things about it.
It's very fun and it's very weird.
And it's kind of a throwback to my Star Trek days.
On one hand, that does sound kind of cool, but isn't there just already enough Star Trek?
I don't know.
No, actually, I'm...
Come on, I'm looking forward to...
I know how many times Captain Kirk slept with a green woman in the original series.
Is there like a keyword that'll let you search for that and get an exact count or something?
Actually, there's a lot of functions in there.
The biggest page on the wiki isn't the main page.
The main page, you can modify and you can't put like, you know, here's popular topics and
everything.
But I feel that the most important page by far is something called Recent Changes.
And what Recent Changes does is it shows you every change that has been done to the wiki
for like, you know, a certain time period.
You can go back all the way to the beginning for this.
It's just a giant database.
And it'll show you like what edits have happened, you know, what articles have been added, if
certain things have been changed, if certain pages have been like, you know, certain administrative
functions have been done.
And it's really to get like, you know, the stuff that's hot off the press, you want to
go there.
And there's also, you know, for more like, you know, I want to find something about, you
know, how many times Captain Kirk slept with green women.
I can go into the search function, which will, you know, obviously search wiki for you.
So the other interesting page is the categories page.
What categories are is basically kind of like keywords.
Like you can go in there and like, you know, you can have like, you know, Captain Kirk, green
woman, sex, you know, the planet he was on.
You can add in all kinds of crazy stuff to it and just like, you know, break it down.
So when you go to this page, you can see like, you know, give me all the pages related to
Captain Kirk.
It's kind of like a search, but not very much so.
Yeah.
And to stick with this Star Trek thing, which I'm usually not real good at because I'm not
a big Trekkie, but like season one, for example, was a keyword.
You could click on it and get a list of only those ones from season one.
So if you wanted to.
Yeah.
That would be a very cool application of that.
That sounds kind of cool.
Mm-hmm.
So if the, if the main page is not, I mean, again, it seems like that's a
whole, like we mentioned earlier about a little potential chaos if it's not organized
properly.
If it didn't have, I mean, the keyword sounds pretty important.
The categories sound pretty important to keep everything in line.
For example, I mean, Wikipedia, it's okay to be a little bit chaotic because you're really,
it's designed to be searched.
Whatever word or term you're looking for, you're going to find.
You don't, that doesn't need categories, but some of the other applications of it and
very good and valid applications of a central clearinghouse of information, like let's stick
with the Star Trek one.
It would be very important to categorize each one of these web pages or whatever by, like
I said, season this or maybe the name of the actors.
If you put in keywords for all of that or categories for all of that and say, find me all the ones
episodes that contained, I don't know, Chewbacca.
Give me a character.
I don't know Star Trek.
Wesley Crusher.
As 1,500 Trekkies, just sort of like, you know, wince in pain because you said that.
I did that one on purpose.
I'm not that bad.
But yeah, I did that just to mess with the Trekkies.
Yeah, Wesley Crusher, whatever his name is.
You want to find out every episode he's been in and stuff like that.
That's it.
That is what categories are for.
And they call them categories.
I like to refer to them as keywords, and I think they work better that way.
Yeah, I agree.
And just to like go on, it's, you know, when you're editing pages, like, you know, formatting
is like, you know, very good.
You can keep everything.
It's very much like encyclopedic.
You know, you have headers.
You can like, you know, do tables.
And just like they have their own sort of like, you know, wiki formatting language.
I'm not even sure what, if it has a term like that.
But that's what me and Stank have been calling it.
But anyway.
Wiki markup language.
And like, you know, there's certain ways of formatting everything.
Like, you know, two dashes around a word, I'm sorry, two equal signs around a word means
header one.
But like, you know, everything within a wiki eventually gets translated into HTML.
So when you enter HTML directly into it, it's fine.
It understands it.
It blocks out certain things, obviously.
But it understands it fine and it edits it in and adds it and it looks okay.
But like, you know, the wiki formatting language is designed to be, you know, work correctly
into the wiki.
I mean, you can make it look any way you want.
But there are certain, I wouldn't call them standards, but certain, you know, ways that
you should do it.
And like, you know, everything gets translated into HTML and like, you know.
Well, you know, it's interesting to know that the formatting for it, in my experience with
it, is that, well, just clarify, when we say formatting, it's not like formatting the page
or tables, using tables for formatting and layout on design and stuff like that, that's
still handled by HTML, PHP, CSS, other things.
The formatting...
For example, you can't include another, like, you know, content styling sheet beyond the
one that the wiki is including.
Right.
It's more for formatting the actual text for visual purposes.
Like font...
Well, again, it's a good point to mention that everything has an HTML equivalent.
So, not so much for layout design, but for the formatting of the text.
Like, whether it's bold one, or header one, header two, header three, different layers
of headers, or whether it's italics and bold and things like that.
Some of the basic things that you find on, you know, the basic uses of HTML.
But it also goes a step further with the way it interprets, you know, I toss this word around
a lot with wikis, and that's meta.
Metadata, and the way it goes above and beyond HTML to really give you a little bit extra.
Like, for example, the, what do you call it, the table of contents.
Exactly.
Now, if you do those headers right, not only will they look like headers and look nice
formatted on the screen, but the way the wiki works...
Oh, no, that's a terrible alliteration.
The way the wiki works, the way the wiki really works...
Say that ten times fast.
Is...
The way the wiki works is the wiki works well.
Oh, jeez.
Oh, good lord.
I'm so...
I couldn't say that if I...
Oh, man.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck?
Yeah, if a wiki woodchuck could wiki...
No, God.
It's got a lot of cool features for formatting text and for formatting data, which is really
what its forte is, that it accepts normal HTML, which I think you said, but if you use the
wiki language, it does a little bit extra by building table of contents on the fly.
You can set it up to embed tables in it and code in it very easily and have it offset so
that it's much easier to read, it's easy on the eyes.
It makes for good, easy reading, whereas with HTML, you really have to start getting into
a bunch of table manipulation and trickery to sometimes make things look and appear the
way you want them and in the places that you want them.
Yes, the wiki formatting makes it easy to do the things that you will probably want
to do.
They do a very good job of handling anything that you could possibly want to do in a wiki
under normal situations.
Obviously, there's not always exactly what you want to do and you may have to word around
code.
You know what I would like to see from a wiki?
Can I offer a suggestion?
Can I offer an idea, if I may?
Sure, why not?
Can I do that?
Is it good to do that now?
I would like to see, you know, this is just, I'm just coming off the top of my head with
this.
Wouldn't it be cool to have a wiki, a site that's powered by a wiki that contained like
a bunch of hacking information, like hacking things, like categorized, like we said to Star
Trek, categorized by season.
We could have it where it was categorized by like what magazine it was published in.
All the articles from 2600, you click on the 2600 keyword and it lists them all.
That would be really cool.
Or from a certain authors or certain topics even, just like, you know, hardware hacking
or freaking cell phones or just any, you know, some type of categorized site.
That, I think somebody should do something like that.
And you know what?
I think a really good name for it would be Doc Droppers.
Da-da-da-da-da!
Doc Droppers!
I guess we probably ought to, you know what?
Didn't we do something like that?
Actually, oh yeah, yeah, we've been working on that for a couple months, haven't we?
For the couple months, I think, yes.
We have been busting our butts on this for a couple months.
And this is the project.
I've forgotten.
Yeah, this is the project I mentioned.
We're kind of joking here, but this is the project I mentioned at the top of the show.
And if you haven't already typed it in, it's DocDroppers.org.
Doc Droppers!
Da-da-da-da-da!
Da-da-da-da-da-da!
Yeah, if you haven't, go check it out right now.
This is what a wiki is used for.
And I'm kind of joking and teasing because I don't like the word wiki.
But I've got to admit, the wiki was perfect for this project.
Doc Droppers is your one-stop shop for all your Doc Dropping needs.
Say that one ten times fast.
I'm surprised you actually got it out.
Yeah, that was a tough one.
I've been practicing.
It was absolutely a perfect fit for this.
And Black Ratchet and I, mostly Black Ratchet, have been putting this together.
And we've put a lot of text files up and counting.
And I hope you've paid attention.
Yeah, I hope you've paid attention to what we've been referring to earlier about the collaboration.
And I think you can probably put it into words better than I can about how – I mean, I think this is already cool.
But it's not just my articles and your articles and stuff like that.
I mean, this is big and can get –
Everyone's articles.
Yeah, and can get so huge and get so much bigger with some people helping.
Yes.
No, this is perfect for what a wiki is.
Basically, what we try to do with Doc Droppers is like, you know, textiles.org is a fantastic repository.
I visit there often.
But we really feel this is a niche – let's try that again.
A niche – I don't know how to pronounce it.
Of, you know, what Doc Droppers has to do is, like, you know, we're going to try to put up stuff that's relevant.
Like, I mean, I'm not that we're saying textiles.org isn't relevant.
But, like, stuff that you can probably use today.
I mean, there's going to be no text about blue boxing.
Isn't it – is it textiles.com or textiles.org?
I thought it was Orge.
Oh, okay.
I think he actually owns all three.
Hold on.
Let me go double check.
Do, do, do.
Go sing the Doc Droppers.
See them again.
Doc Droppers.
Do, do, do, do.
The one-stop shop for all your Doc Dropping needs.
And, actually, we kind of made this name up.
I'll give a little history of the name because I've said this before on the show.
We have a few sites registered that we use for just test beds, just for funny sites, just for the heck of it,
to throw software up and hack at it and play with it.
And one of those sites was DocDroppers.org.
And we just thought it was a funny name.
And when we came up with this idea, it would seem like a perfect name.
We're dropping docs, a lot of documents, a lot of articles and stuff like that.
It's not a site, even though we said it as a joke, it's not a site for you to drop docs on people and drop their real information and stuff like that.
I can take yours down, shouldn't I?
Oh, yeah, that's not down yet.
We can't announce it if it's still there.
Oh, man.
Don't worry.
I, as a normal user, will go in and edit that page.
Yeah, sure you will.
Not the way we have it set up.
And actually, maybe you can go into that a little bit.
Yeah.
Well, while the site technically is a wiki and we're using wiki software, it's not really a wiki in the strictest sense.
Anyone, anybody who's anybody can, you know, create ad articles, you know,
but editing existing webpages is only going to be limited to the administrative staff.
We feel that while we're really kind of limiting the wiki experience, we're really just going to save headaches for ourselves.
You know, there are people out there that will go and mess up all these text files.
And quite frankly, I have too much to do rather than babysit the whole thing, heck, day in and day out.
And I don't want to have a couple of bad apples ruin it for everyone.
And there are several bad apples out there who will make it their goal to do that.
So...
Yeah, I'm sure there will be.
Yeah.
So it is locked down so that they can't cause chaos.
You know, that is one of the weaknesses of the wiki is being collaborative in nature.
It has the potential for abuse.
Yeah.
And there are built-in safeguards against that.
But, and, you know, there are ways of, like, you know, saying, oh, delete this revision.
You know, you can bring it back to any point in the history if you're the new donor.
It's no problem.
But, like, quite frankly, we don't want to deal with that.
I mean, we're sorry, but, you know, blame who you need to blame.
And, but, like, you know, anybody can still add a note.
Anybody.
You know, if you have a nifty article you want to submit, you know, just sign up for an account and add away.
And while technically it's not necessary to add an account and sign up for it and log into it, if you don't log in, your IP address will be displayed on the changelog.
And nothing personal.
I'm probably, you really don't want to be at the B public information.
I know that I've had to delete a couple into it because I was stupid and I didn't log in.
But, you know, if you're, feel free, you know, use a, you know, use your proxy in Russia or whatever.
Right.
Go right ahead, you know, and we'll just keep it up there.
But, you know, if something happens, just drop us a line.
No problem.
Yeah.
And you can also, if you don't feel comfortable with making it all wiki-ized and everything, you know, we have a, we have a web, we have an email address, submissions at dropdroppers.org.
Feel free to submit to it.
I will endeavor to check it as much as possible.
And I will gladly wiki-ize anything.
Lord knows I've done it in the past couple of months way too many times.
You're telling me.
I'm all wikied out, quite frankly.
Oh, yes.
I'm looking forward to a nice, you know, slip into maintenance.
Yeah, give us, if you're going to email them to us, give us a little bit of extra time to catch up on it.
I mean, I don't know how many are going to come in and it's going to have to be when we get time to get around to putting it up for you if you're going to take that route.
So don't rush us.
You're going to have to, it may take days, weeks, maybe even months, frankly, depending on what else we've got going on.
Your best bet is to put it up and try to get it on there yourself and then let us email us and tell us that it's available or that it's there and it's done.
And then we will go in behind it and do the rest of the things to add it to circulation, I guess, for lack of a better phrase.
Link it up to our sites.
Link it up to our static pages.
Right.
I don't know.
Whatever.
That's good.
But while you can't edit pages, what we have done is we've opened up pages linked to – every page has its own separate – it has a whole additional page.
That basically anyone can talk on, it's called a talk page.
It's one of the tabs up on the top and you can put whatever you want.
You can put like, you know, within reason, we will be monitoring this.
We will be looking at it and, you know, if there's stupid stuff on there.
But if you have something that you feel constructive, feel free to add to it.
No problem.
We love people getting the feedback.
We think it's going to be one of the big things about this site.
Yeah, and if I may, we kind of got to push it along here.
I want to just get a couple things out quickly as well is for that talk, that includes something as simple as typos, suggestions, corrections,
especially if maybe a particular number in an article is dead or has changed or something like that.
Post that in the discussion and the talk part of it.
But I also want to make sure that we get out this part about copyright.
Everything on the site is publicly available, open source, things that have been posted on the Internet,
people that have given permission for these articles to be made available.
And this is where, personally, I'm posting all of my articles from now on.
I'm not going to put them on stankdog.com.
I'm going to put them over here and link to them.
This is going to be a central document depository.
You almost said depository.
I don't know what I almost said, but all of it is stuff that is freely available.
Don't send us and don't post copywritten stuff.
It won't make it to the page.
You can create a note if you want.
We'll find it within a day or two or hours or whatever, and it'll be gone.
So don't put up copywritten stuff unless you have expressed written permission that you can convince us is legitimate and real.
And no manuals or PDF files.
No scans of PDF files or anything like that.
It's got to be text-based.
Graphics is fine.
It'll support graphics.
You can embed JPEGs and things like that in there if you want to balance out the article if that's necessary.
I did quite a few articles where I embedded all of my graphics in there, and it came out pretty nice, I think, formatting-wise.
Yes, they came out very pretty.
And again, just to reemphasize that this is something that's ongoing.
We have now got it up and on all the maintenance to get this prepared and ready and locked down so that it hopefully won't be destroyed and abused.
But for this to grow and to take off, we want you all, if your article's not already there, we just try to grab as much as we could find quickly and get them out there so we could break the categories up.
But we missed a lot.
Quickly being a relative term.
Yeah, we really missed a lot, and none of it was intentional or anything like that.
What we want is for you all, the listeners and the users of the site, to go out there and post your stuff out there.
Get this to grow.
Put everything out there that you want to put out there, and we will do our best to get everything up as quickly and as nice-looking as possible.
And I think I'm going to set out a goal here.
Whether or not we can do it, I don't know.
So I think it would be a nice goal to get at least 500 pages up there.
Right now we're almost halfway there.
We've got about 212.
I think everyone listening right now should endeavor to get DocDroppers up to at least 500 pages.
Double our site in a month.
We have plenty of time.
This is the beginning of the month, plenty of time.
Yeah, I think we have thousands of listeners, and if each person puts one or two up there, I think that should be a reasonable goal.
I think that should be a reasonable goal.
And I don't want to stop at 500 by any means.
I think this thing could hit the thousands.
And the categories are not only hacking and not only freaking.
We have anything that's even remotely related.
There's a conspiracy theory section.
There's an urban exploration, social engineering, anything that's even remotely related to these topics.
No politics.
You know that's kind of an ongoing rule we have here.
Privacy.
There's a privacy section.
There's just take a look.
That's the best thing.
And see, get a feel for what it's like and contribute.
I mean, that's the bottom line.
And on that note, I think we're going to have to switch out here to our shouts.
Start closing the show up.
And why don't you go ahead and start off the shouts.
Well, I'm going to say shouts out to Strom Carlson and Mark Bourdain and Phonetrips.com because they finally put a phone recording up from New England, which really just made my day.
Put it up yesterday and I was just absolutely shocked and awed listening to it.
Shock and awed.
So, that's about it.
All right.
And my shouts this week, shout out to Voodoo Hal.
Voodoo Hal's a great guy.
And to Doug, you know, speaking of good guys, Doug's really, he's just a pretty good guy in general.
And Doug, I don't shout out enough.
So, shouts to Doug.
And a little surprise, a little sneaky shout out here to the stars, if you will, to the stars of the upcoming Hack TV special edition called Pwned.
So, shouts out to you.
You know who you are.
And you'll be hearing more about that very soon.
Probably the next thing you hear from DDP to be released.
Email us, of course, radio at binrev.com.
And our closing music tonight comes from one of my favorites, MC Frontalot.
It's a new song out from him called Start Over.
And Black Ratchet, thank you very much for being on the show.
And I'm glad you got some words in this time.
I didn't stomp all over you, I don't think.
I tried not to.
Like last week, where I pretty much...
I rambled under 20 minutes.
Who are you kidding?
Yeah, I think this is a good show.
We're right at an hour and a half, which is way over our limit.
But you know what?
It was a good show.
And we're going to end it and tell everybody that we will see them next week.
Same Doc Dropping time.
Same Doc Dropping channel.
To sincerely deliver to old folks sucker, also bigger.
Cheese and crackers, salt and coffee, medicine to help the heart beat softly, awfully kind
in a mission.
Red was, yes, in a headlong collision with the forces of trouble.
Long in the tooth plus double.
And this goes double for all little girls.
Know who bulls are.
Don't be telling them where you're going, how far, in what direction it is.
Especially if it's the unguarded cottage where Grandma lives.
This is just common sense with which little Red dispensed.
Hence, she proceeded on her way.
I know the words to Grandma's place.
Little Red riding hood rolled up.
Took one look and was like, what the hum?
What the heck?
Grandma got a hairy neck.
Teeth enough to get wrecked.
Next up, wood axe swinging.
That's how it happened.
That's all I'm singing.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happened.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happened.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happened.
Well, I won't start over if you don't stop yapping.
Shh.
Now, once got it hard on this earth.
Ever the subject of defamation and murder.
First in line.
To be out there lurking.
Eyeing on genus and smirking.
Working on a master plan.
Trying to get fed about the best he can.
Wondering if Grandma got mushroom meat.
And every not to be indiscreet.
How many of them ask does she go through a month?
And how does she react when she misses lunch?
And what direction was she living in again?
Well, you better hurry up and go and visit her then.
But wolves are speedier than little girls.
Barely pausing to devour jackrabbits and squirrels.
The wolf arrived.
All the rest, despicable lies.
All that talk of assumed identity.
Let it be.
This wolf was indelibly wolf-like.
Forthright, too.
He said, Grandma, here's what I'll do.
Swallow your hole, your kinfolk crafter.
Then I'll keep living so you don't have to.
Sorry, starving wolf.
No choice.
So get in the gullet, just follow my boy.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happened.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happened.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happened.
Well, I won't start over if you don't stop yapping.
Alright, Grandma was hanging alone.
Ultimate independentism for the glauco.
She paid rent in the forest.
It was inexpensive.
Grandma's house was in the intensively wolf-ripe section of town.
She didn't mind.
She liked a wild sound at the door.
An intruder.
Is that you, Red?
You brought food for me to eat.
Nope, the opposite.
No hard candy.
No soft chocolate.
Just a wolf belly for you to inhabit.
And I'ma need your nightshirt for the next gambit.
Clandestinely reclining in bed.
The wolf awaits for Red.
Expecting their usual banter.
How's school?
Fine, Grandma.
Here's food.
Thanks, dear.
Instead, it's all what's up with the ears.
Eyes, nose, throat, teeth.
Little red rotten hood.
Why you giving me grief?
Body changes the years advance.
Soft features grow unkind to the glance.
And hairs sprout.
All of it, the better for you getting in my mouth.
Wow, it's dark in here, says Grandma.
Here come the wood axe swinging like, yeah, y'all.
Oh, woman, come on back out.
Lock up your door when you're lying around.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happens.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happens.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happens.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happens.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happens.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happens.
That's the story.
That ain't how it happens.
That's all I got.
So you come and snappy.
Thank you.