This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you in a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a Nero
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast
You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
At NASDAQ, leave your fight on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the creepers
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAMs, SIPs, SISs
This is dedicated to the hackers and the...
Good evening and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio
Episode 94
Coming at you on Tuesday
May the 3rd, 2005
And my co-host of course, if you don't recognize by the voice
Is not...
Not theory, dot com
Not theory
I'm still floating on a little bit of a high from Freak Factor this past weekend
Saturday night
The debut episode of Freak Factor on DDP Hack Radio
Which was a, well, a successful failure?
A failed success?
Well, I guess it depends who you asked
I don't know
If success is measured by how many people were there
It was a success by far
And I had a blast
I thought it was very successful as far as me laughing and having fun
And even though you and I pretty much were on the phone
Working out bugs and bouncing ideas around
And putting out fires as the whole thing was going on
We didn't really even get to hear everything
But, all in all, I think it was a success
A lot of people had fun
And, well, let's see where this goes
But first, why don't you listen to this as we go into email
Actually, before we read the first email
There is one little comment I wanted to remind people
I've said it once or twice before
But just to refresh everyone's memory
We do get a large volume of email
And, quite frankly, so much so that I cannot read them all on the air
Please understand, we can't read every single email that we get
I try my best along the same vein
The ones that we do get
Rambling emails
Generally, I'm going to have to edit those down
If I'm going to even read them at all
I'm going to try to cut them down to certain parts
So, don't be surprised if a couple paragraphs
Or a lot of your emails get chopped down
To just the part that I think the listeners would want to focus on
On the air
So, keep that in mind when you email
Short, sweet, to the point
Give us facts, corrections, information, or whatnot
And you'll be more likely to get it on the show
So, that being said
Our first email here comes from Sen
Sen says, from CNETnews.com
The Recording Industry Association of America
Better known as RIA
R-I-A-A
Said Tuesday that it would file suit against students at 18 universities
Accused of trading files on the supercharged Internet 2 network
And I have tiny URL'd this big link from news.com
It is tinyurl4ajka
But the reason I brought this
I wanted to read this email on the air
Is because I wanted to clear up some misconceptions
About Internet 2 or I2
And the I2 consortium
And I've actually worked with it
And I think you said you had a little experience with it
Yeah, a couple of years ago
I had a few friends that were at a university
That was using it
And they told me a little bit about it
But I don't really follow it too much
Because I can't get on it
So, not very interesting to me
Yeah, and it is
Generally you'll find it at universities
But it is
You know, they use the term supercharged in here
And let me tell you
It is phenomenal
Phenomenally faster than anything you've ever seen before
And it's due to the nature of what Internet 2 is all about
I worked at a university that was part of the I2 consortium
And basically what that means is
The Internet 2 was formed to run parallel with the Internet basically
And I'm not going to water this down
Because I know our listeners understand how the Internet works
And that there's all the switches that are transferring packets from network to network
And the combination of networks and all that
Well, the Internet 2 is basically an invite-only, if you will
Version of the Internet
And there are requirements to be a part of the Internet 2 consortium
One of those requirements is a large sum of money
You have to be able to put a large amount of money to even join and be a part of this
Secondly, even more money is required
Because you have to meet their hardware requirements
Anybody, quite frankly
And not theory, I know you can back me up on this
Anybody can put their network on the Internet
Very easily
And you can throw it up there
Just as easily as people at home
You can even put on a dial-up
Your dial-up connection at home
And run a server from it
And we all know
Anybody who's ever used one of those sites
Or gone to a site that's hosted off of dial-up
Or even off of cable modems and DSL sometimes
How horribly slow they are
There's no minimum requirements
There's nothing that stops anybody from getting on the Internet
And that is a great thing
Don't get me wrong
However, the Internet 2 is very, very different
The Internet 2 does have requirements
And I cannot read the specs to you offhand, unfortunately
But they are easily found if you search on the Internet for them
But basically, they have very high hardware requirements
And the Internet 2 is supposed to be a consortium of universities and research facilities
To be able to share information
And one of the things that it was
That originally it was to be pushed for
Was for a lot of online learning things
They wanted to be able to do streaming video
Streaming audio and stuff like that
And I think as everyone who's ever tried
On the normal Internet to stream stuff
It's hit or miss
Sometimes you can get good throughput
Sometimes you can't
And it depends on the site
It depends on the path that's taken there
Through the Internet
Whether you get hit on a slow hop somewhere along the way
Whether you have a nice clean connection
There's so many factors involved
Well, with the Internet 2
Since everybody has the same minimum requirements
And those requirements are very high
It basically
Punts off all those slow connections
So imagine the Internet
Without all the slow connections
No dial-ups
No DSL
No nothing
You have to have
Huge, huge
I think you have to have T3 or higher
First of all
Just to even be involved with
I think you have to have a T3
And I can tell you from experience
That if one
One Internet 2
University
Connects to another one
It is blinding fast
I would connect sometimes
To like
I think it was Duke University
Was also part of it
And download like
Red Hat
This was a few years back
A Red Hat distro
600 some megs
700 megs
And it would be downloaded
In a minute
Or less
Like 30 seconds
It was just
Blinding fast
It was so fast
That
Actually the hard drive
Was the bottleneck
Not the download
It actually took it longer
To write to the hard drive
Than it did to download the data
It was just
Amazingly
Fast
That's a fantastic thing
It's not to replace
The Internet
As some people might seem to believe
It's nothing to do with replacing it
It's basically
People have built
Their own
Worldwide network
So that's really
All the Internet 2 is
I don't see any
Privacy implications
I don't see any dangers
Other people have talked about
Social security number
To get on board
And yada yada
No
Normal people
Can't really connect to it
Unless you're going to
Commit all that money
And even then
You have to be accepted
By the consortium
Which is only given
To universities
And like I said earlier
So that's what
Internet 2 is
Now this particular story
To bring it back to the email
This particular story
Is that because
You know
College students
Are really what pushed
The Internet a lot
In the early years
Because universities
Back then were the only
Things that were on the Internet
As it started to grow
And become commercial
That changed
But just like back then
University students
College students
Would use it to share files
To go on muds
To start news groups
All these things
That came out of it
Well the same thing
Is happening with Internet 2
There are even
Specialized applications
Peer to peer applications
That only work on I2
So basically
The RIAA
Cannot
They're having problems
Finding the people
That are doing this
Because
And this happened before
On the regular Internet
They're actually threatening
The university
Saying give us the names
Of these people
We're finding people
That are using Internet 2
To swap our movies
And files
It's the same story
From the regular Internet
It's just moved over
To I2
Which is enormously
Faster and everything
And then
Just because it goes
Over I2
Once those people
Have it
They can in turn
Share it out
On to the regular Internet
So it's really no different
As far as the story itself
It's the same story
We've heard for years
They're trying to bust
People for this stuff
It's just that
They can't do it right now
The Internet 2
Universities that are
Involved in this
Are defending the students
Right now
So far
They're refusing to
Give that information out
And quite frankly
I don't even know
If the recording industry
Of America
The RAA
Is a part of I2
I don't know
How they found out
I would be interested
To see if they're
Even an official member
Or not
But anyway
That's what the story
Is about
That's what I2 is
I just wanted to
Clear some of that up
Now wait a second
What type of
Addressing scheme
Do they have
They still have
Regular IP addresses
That's it
Yeah
They still
For example
If you go to
Again
What was it
Duke I used
Duke EDU
Same thing
It's just the way
The switches handle it
Your local switching
Inside of Duke
When you make a request
Let's say you make
A request to
I'm going to make this up
I'm going to assume
UCLA being a large university
Is also part of it
If I send a request
To UCLA.edu
Or something like that
That may not
I'm making up an example
You understand
Your local switching
Is going to say
You know what
I recognize
That you're going
To another
I2 university
And it passes
That switch
Through the
I2 connection
And not out
To the public
Internet connection
So sitting on
Sitting there
In the university
As a student
If you go out
And try to
Surf the web
To yahoo.com
It's going to
Switch you out
Through the local
Normal internet connection
But if you go
To a recognized
I2 facility
Or a participant
You will go
On the I2 backbone
So your local
Switching will handle that
And vice versa
On the opposite end
So you'll get
A clean pipe
Cool
Yeah it is
It's really
It's phenomenal
And I
You will literally
When you see
Something downloading
You download a giant file
You're
My mouth
Dropped open
The first time
My jaw dropped
I was like
Holy cow
Did you see how fast
That downloaded
It was amazing
Amazing
So anyway
That's what the
I2 is all about
The privacy concerns
That people have had
I don't quite understand
Or get those
But you know
It's not like an individual
Can get on there
So individual privacy
Rights don't come in
Unless a story like this
Comes up
And we'll see
How this plays out
Alright let's see
Next email comes from
Amy
Ooh
A lady
Amy says
So do I do a chick voice here
Do I do a um
I like to do voices
Alright I'm gonna do
Let's see
I'm gonna pretend
Amy's a valley girl
How about that
Yeah do it
Go for it
Hey stank dog
And honored associates
I just wanted to say
I love your show
It is humorous
And informative
Exclamation point
I am a new listener
And you have my attention
I have been into computers
And related activities
Since the old days
As in the zork
And leather goddesses
Of phobos days
Yes
I am old
But hey
I still look good
So whatever
I don't
I can't believe
I think I just snapped
I don't know if that
Got picked up
I heard it
I don't know if the radio
Picked that up
But I actually just
Snapped
Oh god that's horrible
Anyway
I just wanted to
Drop you a line
To show my support
And appreciation
You get me through
The nights at work
Keep up the great work guys
And by the way
I love
Dr. Pepper
Oh god
I was the worst
Chick voice ever
Yeah that was terrible
And now all of the
Female listeners
All three of them
Are going to be like
Oh
Stank dog doesn't like women
Okay we're not going to
Listen anymore
Chauvinist bastard
They just
Just lost three listeners
Good job
Well you know what
Actually though
Here's the thing about this
You know
I appreciate the email
From Amy
And it's all good
But there were no pictures
What the fuck
Where's the pics
Hey did guy hackers
Ever send you pictures
Isn't it
No but isn't it a rule
That chicks on the internet
Have to send naked pictures
Isn't that a rule
Isn't that part of like
Oh yeah
I think they passed a law
About that recently
Yeah that's like
The terms of service
Or something
It's called like
The canned boobs act
Or something like that
I don't know
The canned boobs act
Oh man
Yeah that's
So what do we have here
We have a chick
Who's into hacking
She looks good
According to her
And she likes the show
And she digs on Dr. Pepper
Now wait a minute
Is this
This is like
A dude right
I don't know
Yeah
Something's
Yeah I'm not sure
What to make of this
So
Okay we're going to
Cut the email
Extra short today
Because we want to
Give plenty of time
To our main topic
Tonight
It's going to take
A good amount of time
To cover
So we're going to
Make sure we dedicate
Plenty of the show
To the main topic
And maybe we'll
Catch up on emails
On a later show
So one of the questions
That we get a lot
From new members
In the hacker community
And people that come in
And ask
One of the most
Frequently things we hear
Besides the hotmail thing
Is what language
Should I learn
What computer language
Should I learn
What's the best language
What's you know
Etc etc
And so we thought
We'd kind of do a rundown
Of computer languages
I won't say
Like a top ten list
But just a different list
Of different types
And what they're used for
Are they very prevalent
Are they good for hackers
Are they not good for hackers
Are they
Where's the money at
What's the job market demand
Kind of just do an overview
Of a bunch of different language
And which ones
Well of course
This will be very opinionated
Of what we like
And don't like
And things like that
So I think the best thing
Is to just kind of start
And go down a list
And both of us
Kind of say what we have
What we feel about it
What do you think
Yeah go for it
Throw some languages at me
Let's see what's going on
Well and these first ones
Are going to be super quick
Because I think we can
Easily agree that
Basic for example
What is it
Beginner's all purpose
Symbolic instruction code
I know that off the top of my head
Whoa okay
Now I have mad respect
Yeah
Basic
Crap
Hated it
Moved on
Nobody uses basic anymore
Not plain old basic
Yeah unless you're talking
About like a very beginner
Like high school
Programming course
You're not really
Going to see it anywhere
And you're definitely
Unless it's visual basic
You're not going to get a job
Programming in basic
Right and we are going to
Touch on visual basic
Specifically later
I actually keep that
Separated from basic
Basic I think
The only application
Or use of basic
Is like you said
In high school
To teach you
Programming concepts
In a simple way
So you understand looping
And you understand
Sequence of line numbering
And things like that
It's kind of like
A beginner programming language
To get you into the mindset
If you will
And you learn to use
Go-to's
Because that's important
Oh yeah
You've got to have
Go-to's
And go-sub
Don't ever use
A go-to
Ever
That's the programming rule
That's the goalie rule
Of programming
Never
Go-to
Although that's
Actually not the case
I use go-to's
Occasionally
Well actually
I'll bring that up
When we come to
A certain language
Okay
Next thing
Let's
I'm going to
These are not
In any necessarily
In any order
Or relationship
So I'm just kind of
Firing shotgun here
Shell
Or batch programming
To me
They're both
Very similar
Batch programming
Being Microsoft's
Old BAT files
If you remember
Back in the early days
And shell scripting
Which to me
Those things are very similar
Without going into
A technical debate
They're both
Sequential ways
Of doing things
Getting things done
Batch
BAT files
Pretty much gone
I don't know of anybody
That still uses BAT files
For anything anymore
Although I
I think
I wouldn't swear by this
But I think they are
Actually still supported
I think you can write
A batch file
And it will still work
Even in XP
But I don't think
Anybody actually uses
Them anymore
For anything
Actually
I do know a few people
That still use batch files
For like logon scripts
To like window
Those NT servers
And crap like that
Outdated stuff
But it's still out there
And you know
Companies like you said
They don't see a reason
To upgrade
So
True
If you're doing
Some system admin work
You may run into them
Somewhere
And they're easy
As hell to understand
They're not
Nowhere near as
Versatile as
Real scripting languages
So
And
Shell
On the same token
Shell scripting
Which I do consider
Very similar
Although it's
I think quite a bit
More powerful than batch
But shell scripting
I think is alive
And well
Unixbox's shell scripting
Is incredibly handy
And
In my experience
And you probably have
More experience here
But in my experience
I use that a lot
For making backups
Or executing programs
Actually
When I had programs
I set up a cron job
Or something like that
Launch
The shell script
And what I would have it do
Is in stage one
Like rename a file
As a backup
With today's date
I can pass
System parameters
Like date
And directory
And home directories
And what not
And copy the file over
Then execute my
New program
To create a new data file
Then
For example
FTP it somewhere
Whatever
A sequential
Series of events
And that is something
That
Quite frankly
Never really does get old
You can always use that
That's very true
But if
If you really get into
Shell scripting
I'm not much
Of a shell scripter
I use Perl scripts
For pretty much everything
But
If you really know
A lot about
You know
The C shell
Or Bash
The born again shell
You can write
Pretty much anything
In these shell scripts
If you want to get
Really crazy with it
I'm pretty sure
I saw somebody
Write a web server
In Bash script
Wow
So
Yeah you can
You can do it all
But for most people
Like you said
They're going to
Write something simple
That's sequential
That
You know
Maybe has a couple
Of if statements
In here
And here and there
And you know
Kind of guides
The execution
But nothing really
All that complicated
It just gets a quick
Job done
And that's what
I think it's best
Used for
And I use them
All the time
As much as you do
Right
And that gives us
A great segue
Since you mentioned it
I'm going to make
The next one Perl
Because I'm going to
We agree on this
But you just said
That you might use
A couple if statements
Or something like that
In your shell script
And I only
I pretty much use
Born again
Just Bash
It's pretty much all
And corn shell
A little bit
But switch to Perl
Because if I'm going
To do any logic
Almost whatsoever
I'm not going to
Bother with Bash
I'm going to go to Perl
Now I'm going to
Come right out
And admit
I don't know Perl
The little bit of Perl
That I've done
I think you've given me
Some Perl code
To look at before
A long time back
You might have forgotten
Probably
Yeah I don't remember
That at all
Yeah you gave me
Some Perl stuff
A long time back
That I looked at
And modified
I know I've gotten
Stuff from Nick
I found stuff
Out on the web
I've done maintenance
Programming of it
So I am not
A Perl whiz
I'll admit that up front
However
I do know when
I would use it
If I've got
Some kind of
More detailed logic
Or any kind of
Looping whatsoever
That's when I would
Look to Perl
As the answer
Beyond Bash
Beyond any shell script
I would then look
To Perl
And Perl
I think I can safely
Say is the hacking
Language of choice
Because A the whole
Unix Linux
It's you know
Dominant in that
Market if you will
And it is
Surprisingly powerful
Considering it's not
Considering it's a shell
It's a scripting language
Yeah well
There's still a lot of
Debate
Some people say
It's a real
Programming language
Some people say
It's a scripting language
Some people if you
Ask them what's the
Difference between
A scripting language
And a programming language
There's no distinction
I don't really know
That there is
A solid distinction
Between that nowadays
Compiled
What's that
Compiled
Yeah but you know
What there are
Perl compilers
Hmm
Why would you
Compile
A Perl
Never mind
You know I've never
Seen anybody use it
But I know that it
Exists
I don't know how
Well it works
But I know it
Exists
But yeah just the
Fact that it's
Compiled
Does make a
Difference but there
Are ways to compile
Scripting languages
Some of them are
Actually very tricky
Written by hackers
They essentially run
The interpreter for
The scripting language
And take a snapshot
Memory snapshot
And dump that into a
File and later on
They don't need the
Interpreter they
Essentially just load
The whole interpreter
And script from the
Snapshot of RAM and
Execute it from there
It's pretty cool stuff
Yeah and another
Thing that Perl is
Very very good at
Is
Variables
Passing parameters
And variables
It's very good to
Manipulate with
Almost any kind of
Data or text
Based
Input or output
And you'll see it
A lot of times
People will write
Perl scripts to
Parse through a
Website or parse
Data in and out of
A website
In and out of a
Database
Just as easily as
A lot of other
Database languages
Perl is powerful
Enough to do that
So if you're ever
If you're ever out
There and you're
Like wow this
Website has a whole
Lot of stuff I
Wish I could put it
Into a spreadsheet
Or a comma separated
File or into a
Database
That's when I would
Think Perl go out
There parse through
It use regular
Expressions to dig
Through things
Pull what you want
And export it
However you want
Yeah I use Perl
For a lot of
You know extracting
And text processing
And stuff like that
Putting stuff in
Database
And Perl just
Has so many
Modules and so
So many language
Constructs that are
Designed to do
Exactly that that
It just makes my
Life so easy
I use Perl for
Pretty much
Everything
Yeah very very
Powerful and if
If somebody is
Comfortable with
Linux and is
Interested in
Learning a language
My personal
Recommendation is to
Learn Perl
If your goal is
For hacking and
To be able to do
Something quickly on
The fly write some
Code to do
Something
I think Perl is
Your best bet
Assuming that
You're familiar and
Comfortable with
Linux or
Unix of any
Kind
Now that being
Said
Well let's see where
Should we go from
Perl let's
Let's drop back to
Something a little bit
Closer to machine
Level and let's
Talk about assembly
Okay I have to tell
People I've heard
People say oh nobody
Uses assembly
Language anymore
Everybody programs
Everything in C
It's not true
People still make
Embedded systems and
They require assembly
Language so if you're
Thinking about learning
It not only is there a
Chance you can get a
Job as an embedded
Systems developer but
You will know a lot
More about your
Machine and a lot more
About what it can do
You know just in the
General sense of what
It can and can't do
And things that it
Can do but maybe
Can't do so efficiently
So you may you know
Be able to design
Algorithms in your
C C++ programming
Better because you
Know that the machine
Can do one thing
Better than it can do
Another so write more
Efficient code whether
You use assembly
Language or not as
Long as you
Understand the
Instructions the
Instruction set and
The architecture from
Learning assembly
Language it's going to
Help your programming
Pretty much everywhere
Well you don't get
The only thing faster
Than assembly would be
Actual machine language
But who's going to
Write ones and zeros
Yeah that's true
So also you mentioned
You said the word but
Assembly is based on
Architecture different
For different type of
Process or architecture
So x86 being the
Predominant architecture
Out there you can't
Write something if you
Write something for your
X86 processors you know
You're writing something
It's going to work only
On those pentiums and
Supported x86
Architectures you're not
Going to be able to
Take that and expect it
To run on a spark
Machine or or any other
Architecture at all
Right exactly and it
Gets even more fine
Grained than that because
There's 386 486 pentium
Pentium pro pentium 2
Pentium 3 pentium 4
Athlon k5 k6 k7 all of
These things each one
Adds a few little
Instructions here and
There that the other
Processors may not have
So if you want to use
MMX or MMX2 or SSC or
Any of those things you
Got to be careful that
It's going to run on all
The machines that you
Want it to run on so
Even if you learn
Assembly language you
Got to be careful that
You might be using the
Correct architecture but
You know like the
Sub architecture if you
Can call it that you
Have to use the correct
The correct version of
That too otherwise you
Can get yourself in
Trouble right now you
Say this is still used
Out there but what
Kind of job market is
There and actually let's
Since we've talked about
That what about pearl is
There a big job hackers
Can use it a lot it's
Very handy is there a
Job market for pearl and
On a different note is
There a job market for
Assembly okay for pearl I
Think the job market is
Not actually for people
Who are programming in
Pearl I think it's for
People who are sysadmins
Of a place that has a
Large you know unix
Linux installation you
Know that need people
To automate backup
Scripts and automate
Things that are complicated
Enough where you'd want
An actual programming
Language like pearl to
Take the job so if
You're going to learn
Pearl and you think
You're going to get a
Job programming pearl
It's probably because
You're doing some type
Of IT or you know
Sysadmin type work right
Right and I the only
Reason and it's kind of
With shell too I'm sorry
To interrupt but same
Thing with shell nobody
Hires a shell coder
Exactly it's just assumed
That since shell is
Pretty much a
Straightforward batch
Type language a
Sequential language that
It can be easily picked
Up by your existing
Programmers and just
Like with pearl like you
Said your system
Administrators should be
Assumed that if they
Need to use they need to
Get the job done whatever
It happens to be and they
Need to have the pearl
Skills to do it I don't
Know that I've ever seen
Somebody hired to be a
Pearl programmer I
Haven't seen that title
Where that's someone's
Sole job responsibilities to
Write pearl programs I've
Never seen that in my
Experience and what about
What about for assembly
Though like I said
Embedded systems if you're
Going to work on like
Computers and cars or
Something like that they
May have c compilers a lot
Of these embedded
Environments where you're
Building really small
Hardware like you know like
A linksys router or
Something like that or a
Car computer like I said
Or a cell phone they do
Have higher level
Languages for these
Things but when you have
Like a very custom piece
Of hardware like that
Somebody has to make the
Software guts of it and
It's all going to be an
Assembly language so there
Are jobs out there you
Know writing software for
Cell phones you know if
You're not writing java
Applications or something
Like that you may need to
Write like the actual
System level software and
Those guys get paid a
Shitload of money in
Places so I mean I've
Seen job advertisements
People doing that type
Of job starting salary
Ninety thousand dollars so
There are jobs in
Assembly language but
It's more when you're
Looking for a job in
Assembly language they
Either want somebody
Who's got a lot of
Experience in a particular
Architecture from what
I've seen or they want
Somebody who has a
Little bit of experience
In some architecture to
Get the feel kind of
Like the general idea of
How assembly language
Programming works and
They're going to teach you
A specific assembly
Language I got a job at
Some point where I had
To learn a specific
Assembly language that
Was spark based with
Some digital signal
Processing instructions and
Very interesting and
Cool stuff but you know
They knew that I knew
Assembly language
Beforehand which is
Kind of why they hired
Me and they wanted me to
Adapt over you know
Between twelve and eighteen
Months to this new
Hardware this new platform
I had never seen before
And I did but it's it's
A long hard road so if
You want to do it and
You get a job you know
You look on a site and
Say that they see that
They want somebody who's
Familiar with assembly
Language any assembly
Language you may get
Paid a lot of money but
Be prepared to work your
Ass off
Yeah and and just another
Little note if you are
Considering going in that
Direction generally at
Universities and colleges
That usually I see under
The computer engineering
Electronic engineering
And the college of
Engineering as opposed to
The college of business
Or the college of it's
Usually in the college of
Science so I generally
When I've seen assembly
Taught and I've been to
Several different
Universities it's almost
Always in the engineering
Track so if you are
Interested in that side of
Things you're going to end
Up probably in the college
Of engineering not the
College of business
Focuses more on some of
The other languages we're
Going to hit in a few
Minutes yeah and actually
Depending on the
University it may not
Even fall into the
Computer science category
A lot of computer science
Places are all about
Theory and you know
Efficiency and all this
Other kind of stuff
They're not really about
Programming which blows
People away but
Definitely computer
Engineering like I said
Where you're building
These small embedded
Systems they're going to
Want you to know some
Assembly language at some
Point if it's if it's a
Very serious program
Possibly like a five
Year master's program
They're going to want
You to know some
Assembly language so
That you can really get
Down and put something
Build from something you
Know a circuit with a
Microcontroller and
Program it directly so
Yeah and I suspect and
I suspect as Dan from the
Linux links tech show
Earlier mentioned you
Might see a lot of that
Also at the vocational tech
Schools that they'll
Emphasize that type of
Thing all right a couple
Other quick ones we can
Skip over practically is
Pascal and or Fortran
I actually learned both
Of these languages in
High school and I've
Never ever ever seen
Them in use anywhere in
The job market first of
All I have seen and
Heard that they are used
On occasion but mostly
In like scientific places
Where people are using
Them to write little data
Analysis and things like
That but for the most
Part and maybe you know
Otherwise but for the
Most part I've seen these
Replaced by C C++ well
Funny thing about that I
Know Fortran is still
Used in inside a
Scientific you know
Applications like you
Said I knew the
Physics Department at the
School I went to every
Single thing they did was
In Fortran first of all
Because somebody wrote it
A long time ago and they
Kept adding on to it
Didn't want to rewrite it
Because it's complicated
Stuff which is very
Common and there actually
Are some modern you know
Fortran environments I
Believe Microsoft actually
Has a visual Fortran
Available somewhere I
Could be totally crazy but
I remember seeing it
Somewhere if it's not
Microsoft it's somebody
Else and Pascal ironically
Pascal still is in use
For writing Windows
Applications and Linux
Applications there is a
Boylan Delphi is you know
It's a rapid rapid
Application development
System and it's programmed
In Pascal I've seen job
Offers for people learning
Pascal not many I'm not
Saying Pascal and go out
As a matter of fact I'm
Saying don't learn Pascal
Because I think the job
Market is small but if
You see anything Boylan
Delphi experience required
That's Pascal and if you
See I think it's called
Kylex for Linux that
Also is Pascal for writing
Graphical applications it
Exists but I do not
Recommend that anybody
Learns Pascal I recommend
You learn Fortran if you
Want to do you know
Experimental particle
Physics and you want to
Write software that
Analyzes your data you're
Probably gonna have to
Learn Fortran but other
Than that I would avoid
Them I would recommend
Avoiding Fortran for the
Simple fact that it's a
Strict I don't know what
The term is but you need
Like coding sheets you know
To do Fortran column one
Has to indicate whether it's
Continuation from the
Previous line column seven
Indicates whether it's a
Comment line it's very
Rigid on where you
Everything has to line up
Like it's a throwback to
The old punch card days I
Would say avoid it for the
Sheer inconvenience of what
The nature of the way the
Damn thing is it's oh well
Actually um the languages
That are like that um other
Than Fortran exist like
Python in Python everything
Has to be lined up so it's
Not always a bad thing but I
See what you're saying in
Fortran I've seen Fortran
Programs and and things kind
Of look like indented in all
Kinds of weird places and
There's a meaning behind it
But I sure as hell don't
Know what it is it's it's a
Mess it is a mess and you'll
Find a lot of go to's in
That environment as well but
On to the next language which
Kind of falls into this as
Well you say you it's a good
Segway you mentioned that
You've seen Fortran and it's
Been built upon and built upon
Because they didn't need it
They didn't feel the need to
Change it or take the time to
Change it it's in there it
Works you know modify it and
Add some features well that's
What's kept this programming
Language alive and will into
The foreseeable future and
That is COBOL and people
Always use COBOL as a joke of
The dinosaur language because
Of its association with
Mainframes and whatnot COBOL is
Still alive and well and there
Are jobs for COBOL programmers now
They are disappearing by the
Day don't get me wrong it's not
A growing language but there are
Quite a few jobs out there and
Quite a few places for the
Exact same reason these companies
Especially large companies I
Don't care what anybody says it
Is very difficult it's a rare case
When you have somebody like
Google who's developed a server
Farm that has the power to do
What needs to be done most places
Still rely on mainframes they still
Rely on AS400 they still rely on
Heavy metal systems to get this
Stuff done and the software that
Was developed and written to run on
These things 10 20 30 years ago are
Still around because they do the
Job they get it done you constantly
Modify and add to them as needed and
There was a huge push recently well
I guess not so recently but with
Y2k where there was a huge job
Rush of COBOL programmers that were
Needed to convert a lot of stuff to
Y2k compliance that's really where
The biggest problem and concern with
Systems was it was with those old
Heavy metal systems because the
Software was so old nobody ever
Thought they would make it to the
Year 2000 and when it did there was a
Huge job rush now there still is jobs
Out there again I wouldn't recommend
Young people going into college and
Like focusing on COBOL or anything
Like that but be aware that there are
Jobs out there for COBOL programming it's
It's horrible it's hideous it's god
Awful to actually write COBOL and I
Have done it for several years I had
Done it at an old job and it was
Miserable
Oh that sounds terrible
It's a good it's a combination of
Structured language where it does have
To start in certain columns and certain
Things have to come in a certain order and
It's the classic example of spaghetti code if
You've ever heard that term it's not
Necessarily yes not necessarily go to's
Although you I found a lot of go to's
In some old COBOL code and I had to
Rewrite so much stuff because it was
Just a mess but the way it's
Structured you do a lot of well for lack
Of a better word we'll call them
Function calls procedure calls within
Other calls within other calls within
Other calls and then sometimes they
Would break out of the whole cycle so
You'd be five or six levels deep and
All of a sudden something will break
Out of that cycle and go off in a
Completely different direction and
Break the sequence and then you're
Lost I mean it's memory it's it's
Horrible and COBOL programs even the
Most simple hello world in COBOL is
Going to be three three to five hundred
Lines of code and that's not an
Exaggeration
Oh man well I gotta tell you you said
That a lot of people there was a job
Rush for you know year two thousand
Fixes I don't know how long these kids
Are going to be living but you know
Maybe there's going to be a job
Rush in the year twenty one hundred so
Well you're looking for you're looking
For some advice I'd say you know right
Around twenty ninety or so start learning
COBOL there may be some systems left you get
To update and maybe get paid a million
Dollars a year who knows yeah they're
Nobody will worry about that till
Twenty ninety nine yeah of course so all
Right well that's COBOL now along the
Same lines as long as we're talking
Mainframe and heavy metal there are a
Lot of other languages that a lot of
People have never heard of or seen before
And I'm just going to lump them all
Together and call them report
Languages report writing tools
Reporting languages that are very much
Like you said earlier to where well
Reporting languages like for example
Easy Tree easy tree plus focus is a
Very big one in the db2 world focus is
Used a lot these are used again on
Mainframe some units and stuff but
Their original intent was to be a short
Language to let you write quick reports
Very SQL like if you will I used to
Jokingly refer to focus a lot of people
I used to work with swore by focus and
I used to always just say focus is
Nothing but SQL on crack it's nothing
But sequential query language which we're
Also going to talk about just just a
Second it's basically give me a b c and
D and print it out on the screen you
Don't get a lot of control over the
Formatting of how it comes out but you
Can easily generate a list somebody says
Hey give me a list of all of these
People who make more than this amount of
Money focus is great for stuff like that
Report writing languages are great for
Stuff like that the problem with this
Comes where people start trying to use
These languages for something they
Weren't intended to do so like as the
Language evolved they started doing like
You said earlier with pearl where new
Modules would be come out that you could
Use to do a lot of other things what
Should have been kept as simple reports and
If you ever need something more detail
Like laying something out in a nice
Designed report would be used in a
Different language cobalt unfortunately
I'd have to admit or something like that
For mainframes or C or whatever but what
They started to do is build all this
Extra functionality like the ability to
Do different joins and sorts and things
Like that well you know what you should do
That in an SQL program first and then use
Your report writing languages well and
Fortunately they started to do a what
Do they call it integrate parallel
Integration is that what they call it
Where I'll go backwards and include the
Functionality into this new language and
You create basically a bastardized
Language and your programmers who are so
Used to writing quick easy programs and
Focus or whatever it happens to be start
Using this in a way it wasn't intended it's
It's very very inefficient because it's
Kind of a hack to do these things and
What should have been again a simple
Reporting languages does a whole lot
More and it really shouldn't have been
Used for that so I don't know if
You've ever had any experience with that
Type of thing I don't know if you've
Most people have never heard of these
These things because they're in the
Mainframe world I've heard a focus
Once before I don't remember who told
Me about it but I haven't really done
Anything with those reporting languages I
Don't know if crystal reports falls in that
It's not really it's more like a report
Layout tool right nowadays but I think
That's kind of where the where the
Market for that for you know normal user
Applications is kind of gone right and
Crystal reports which is actually bought
By Microsoft and included in visual yeah
Visual studio dot net comes with crystal
Reports now crystal reports is the same
Thing in a visual environment but right if
You've used crystal reports or seen it crystal
Reports gives you a lot of control over
Using whatever fonts and laying it on the
Screen and right justify left justify with
These old reporting languages you didn't
Have that control it was just gimme gimme
Gimme and it would just spit the data out it
Would by default put a comma between them
Or put a five spaces between them and
Things like that and that was pretty much
It you could go in and start manipulating
A little bit but you couldn't change fonts
Very easily you couldn't you know highlight
Words or bold or any of that kind of stuff
With crystal reports you do because the
Visual aspect of it but yes it is it is a
Similar thing except for the visual world
And since we touched on it let's talk
About SQL and you and I both know SQL
Very well very intimately sequential query
Language or structured query language I've
Seen it referred to both ways and SQL is a
Language that's designed and has been
Around for a long time to communicate
Directly with a database there's
Gosh I can't think of the term offhand
DCL and DML data control language data
Manipulation language both types of SQL but
Basically different syntax SQL language is
Very universal the standards have been
Around for years and years because like I
Said databases have been around for years
SQL has been around for years but there are
Different flavors of SQL for different
Flavors of database the underlying standard
Select star from wherever it it's it's pretty
Universal where whatever criteria there's
Certain things that are universal however
Each database wants to add their little
Extra nuances and extra abilities and features
To it so while standard SQL will work across Oracle and SQL server and my
SQL and postgres each one of those four things has their own little extra SQL Oracle uses
Something called SQL plus where their way of designing and creating functions is a little
Bit different than say SQL server SQL server syntax of creating functions and procedures and different
Function calls is a little bit different than say postgres so the SQL language itself is very universal now what do you think of the future and the present of SQL as a programming language in well first of all should hackers be interested into it and should hackers be interested into it well I have no idea why I can't put together that sentence should hackers be into this language at all if there are any hacker use for it and I think the answer will be completely different.
Completely different than the next question which is what about the job market for it okay should hackers be interested in SQL yeah I think they should but as my forum title says I am the data pillager you know I love grabbing data and stuff again into a database and then later pulling it out and saying what kind of you know correlations I can make between different things I mean that's that's the whole way that you know Bell's mind started I found some data stuff in the database built some queries with SQL and
And now you know you know you can look up area codes and exchanges and all that stuff I think that SQL in the hacking community is underutilized there's probably a lot of things that people don't realize they can do with SQL that they may be trying to do in another you know you know in a
In C or something like that with flat files or something that would SQL would make their life a million times easier
But I don't expect that people are going to learn it anytime soon
I think that people are going to kind of stick with Perl and all that and see and just leave SQL on its own
Some people use MySQL for some stuff but MySQL in my mind really is not a real database I've said this a million times
Postgres gives you all kinds of functionality that MySQL doesn't and once you really get into SQL and build something big you'll appreciate that
But hackers yeah I'd say it's hit or miss depending on the person's hacking interests whether they should be interested in it
As far as the job market goes though I think that I don't really aside from maintaining a huge database for somebody
I think SQL is more of a part of your resume as opposed to the whole thing
I know some people like yourself you deal a lot with databases so SQL is you know a large percentage of your work
But I know at other places that I've worked SQL was a small percentage but a required percentage
You needed to know a little bit about it to get your job done
But you didn't need to be an expert in the field in order to get around the system
So that's what I think about it
Yeah
Actually there is a very large market for SQL programmers but
That being said let me clarify
Nobody's hiring just SQL program you won't see that listed as the job title
You will see SQL Server 2000 programmer or SQL Server 2000 database designer
You have to know the whole package including programming as well as database design
Because there is still a lot of stuff being done
And to give you some examples of real world things that are happening
There is software out there
Specifically what I do a lot of
Well let's use Amazon as an example
I'm going to try to make one up off the fly
Let's use Amazon as an example
Amazon has a huge database of information
Huge database
And I think we can all use our imagination
They've got books, customers, credit card database, reviews
All this information kept in databases
People are needed all the time to extract said information
People are needed all the time to modify and add new features to that
Let's say they wanted to add a new ratings system
They wanted to modify the reviews to have them weighted
They didn't have that in their initial design
They just have people reviewing it and that's it
We want to add something that will weight it
So that somebody who is consistently a good reviewer
Has more weight carried in their review or something like that
You have to have people that are going to be able to go in and modify that database
I may be mistaken
I may be misspeaking here
But I believe that Amazon is an Oracle based data
I think the last time I heard they were an Oracle based shop
So you need somebody who has experience with Oracle
That can go in and modify and make changes to this data
And maintain data integrity
Make sure this whole system works
And be able to extract data on the fly
Because the other thing that happens
And as much as you want to hate this and deny this
And luckily I don't have to do this for a living
I wouldn't do this for a living
But we all know that these companies
Like I don't want to single out Amazon
I'm not accusing them
But I think we can pretty much make some assumptions
But a client comes to Amazon and says
Hey, we want to buy 50,000 names, addresses, email addresses
Of users who have bought sci-fi DVDs over the past six months
So we can mass mail them whatever
You have requests like that that come in all the time
And you need programmers who
A. understand this giant system
Understand where the data is
And the relationships between them
That can pull out said data
And put it into whatever formats required
Whether it's a spreadsheet or another database
Or whatever
And deliver it
And there is a lot of demand for sending data back and forth
Data to and from banks
Data to and from other companies
Data within departments of the same company
You may have within your company
A database of all the employees
Well, let's say that over in the benefits office
They want to send out a flyer to everybody in the company
To let you know that they're having their company picnic
You have people in-house
That that's their job
Is to extract that data
And send it to the other part of the university
And to write interfaces
You may have a centralized human resources system
But you may outsource to the local bank
For a direct deposit
Where you're going to have to work with the bank
To find out their requirements
And their data requirements
Their standards
What data they need and don't need
And how they transfer it
Security and all that stuff combined
And you're going to have to write a system
That will interface with that
And send data back and forth
So I'm kind of going a little long on this
Because I do this all the time
And this is pretty much what I do for a living
So there are quite a few jobs out there
But they're on a specific database example
So if you can get Oracle experience
That is the biggest
SQL Server 2000 is a pretty close second
And as a matter of fact
They may be in more installations of it
But they're usually smaller
Oracle usually has the bigger places
But again, DB2
MySQL
Which I agree with what you said earlier
It's very much a beginner's database
You know, it's not a true database
It doesn't have a lot of the features
That the others do
But it's a great way to learn basic SQL
It supports SQL standards
It doesn't do a lot of function
Store procedures and stuff like that
But it'll give you the basics
Of storing a database
And relational database management
So whatever one you find interesting
Or whatever one
You're usually going to be able
To only get a job in that
I'm lucky enough to have experience
In Oracle and SQL Server
So I can kind of adapt and migrate
And if you understand
The overall concepts
And we had a relational database management show
Many shows back
If you are interested in that
That talked a little bit more about it
But I think that's enough on SQL
And I think the next language
That I have on my list
Is probably the one
That's most important of all of these
And that is
And I'm combining them
And I might
Probably shouldn't I guess
But C and C++
Yeah they're fairly important I guess
I think they're very important
I don't think there's anything
I think they're the most prevalent language
Myself
I wish I could speak a little bit more
Intelligently on them
I have studied both
I've had both in college
I've never had the call
To do them in real job
On the job requirements
Actually that's a lie
I've written Pro-C before
Which was a bastardized C
I wrote Pro-C
On a Solarix
On a Sun Solaris system before
And it was
Pretty god awful
It was actually
Written in India
All the comments
And documentation
It was
It was rough
It was very rough
To modify that one
That was pretty
Pretty nasty
But as far as compiled languages
I think it's far more prevalent
Than what we mentioned earlier
Pascal
Fortran
That type of stuff
And C is definitely
The language you're going to use
If you're going to develop applications
And correct me if you disagree with us
But if you're going to develop applications
Under Linux
Yeah
And as a matter of fact
It ties in
Very closely to
Assembly language
Like we were talking before
If you're going to build
Low level applications
You're going to have
Assembly language
Plus C
But a lot of the times
You want to have C++
Because people say
It's too bloated
You know
They want something
As simple as possible
For system level stuff
Like the kernel
Is written in C
For Linux
For a reason
And that's it
You know
They don't use C++
For things like that
They use C++
For big applications
But system level stuff
Is almost always done in C
Exactly
So
Yes
Very good point
And
C
C also is a standard
I think it's
Gosh
1985
Was the last time
I
Yeah
I don't
I don't know
Yeah I don't remember
C
There is an
NCC
Is a standard
That makes it very portable
NCC should work
From one system
To the other
However
The reality of that
Is not
This
Unfortunately
The truth
Because
C
Has so many functions
That are custom
To the environments
And people use them
If you do write
In pure NCC
Theoretically
You can take it
From a Linux box
To a Windows box
To a Solaris box
To a Vax
To whatever
And it should all work
If it's standard NCC
And it's supported
By a compiler
Which it almost always is
The fact of the matter
Is most people
Use a bunch of
Other functions
You would use
Include statements
Of different
Function
And function calls
That were only designed
To work on
On a Windows box
Or a Linux box
Obviously that's not
Going to port
Somewhere else
And actually
I didn't mean
To touch on that
But since I mentioned
The word port
Anytime you hear
About something
Being ported
The majority of the time
It's C
That I
In my experience
If something's written
In C
It's usually the most
Portable language
Because
You can try to find
Well the ANSI
Will port over easy
And you can try to find
The equivalent functions
From one environment
To the next
It may be called
One thing
In Linux
And you may find
An equivalent
Or similar
For Microsoft
And you may be able
To port it over
From one environment
To the other
Easily by simply
Finding out how
The function calls
Work on one system
Versus the other
Right
But C++
Gives you
Complete control
True object oriented
Programming language
Where you can write
Any data structure
That you want
You can write
Any function
Do function calls
Do
I don't
I've never seen
A limit
To what C++
Cannot do
So if you're
I worked on a
Software system
Back in the day
Called
Target Junior
It was for
Computer vision
And it was a million
Lines of C++
Code
And it was very
Complicated
It did all kinds
Of cool stuff
And it's a perfect
Example of how
C++ can work
On a large scale
And get the job
Done
Even when it comes
To something
Complicated like
Computer vision
So
Right
And I think
That's probably
The story here
That's the thing
To take away
From this
Is if it's a
Large development
Large program
C++
Is invaluable
It is a huge
Demand in the
Job market
Although
Those are the
Ones most
Being outsourced
I even mentioned
In my example
To India
C and C++
Is where
A lot of
Jobs are
I won't say
The most
Because I think
The next language
We talk about
Well
We'll see
There is a
Pretty good
Job demand
Job market
For C and
C++
Programmers
Out there
As far as
For hackers
I love it
And I wish
I saw more
Hackers using it
But because of
The complexity
Compared to
Perl
A lot of people
Perl
As Nathir said
Earlier
Perl can do
A lot of
Things
And it's
Faster to
Develop in
Perl
So I think
More people
From a
Hacking stamp
More hackers
Will use
Perl to get
The job done
Before they
Do C and
C++
C and
C++
Generally
Tends to
Work better
For larger
Applications
Definitely
And C++
C++
Java
Oh boy
Do I love
Java
I know
Voodoo Hal
Is pissed
Just at the
Way I already
Started my
Talk about
Java
I know
He's going
To not
Like that
At all
But I
Can't
Stand
Java
Is supposed
To be
And I
Don't
Write me
Yes I'm
Oversimplifying
I admit
But Java
Is supposed
To be
C++
For cross
Platform
Development
And it's
Just
It's an
Object oriented
Language
That's supposed
To be universal
That you can
Write in it
And it will
Be supported
Across platforms
Right
Well intended
I have to say
That I do
Like Java
For programming
Cell phones
It's cool
But there
Are so many
God damn
Different versions
Of Java
And then
Different versions
Of Java
That have
Extra packages
Added on
And all this
Other kind
Of stuff
That it just
Becomes
Impossible
To keep
Track
There's
J2SE
There's
J2EE
There's
J2ME
There's
Personal
Java
And when
You get
To J2ME
For mobile
Devices
There's
The
Midlet
Profile
And the
CLDC
And there's
Like 50
Different version
Numbers
Of everything
It's just
Really
Annoying
To keep
Track
Of that
Like
It's not
Cross
Platform
Anymore
Or it's
Still
Cross
Platform
But it's
Not
Easy
To develop
And run
Everywhere
Like cross
Platform
Is one
Thing
But they
Call it
The language
You can
Run
Everywhere
If I
Have to
Use a
Specific
Version
Of Java
To some
Extend
It makes
Sense
But to
The extent
That it's
Gotten
With all
These different
Versions
I think
It's
Kind of
Missing the
Point
Now
Yeah
And then
You've
Got
JavaScript
Java
Server
Pages
Java
Beans
Java
Applets
Oh
It's
Just
Net
Beans
Like this
There's
All this
Other
Craft
That goes
With
Java
You know
It can
Be a lot
Of fun
To program
In
Sometimes
Like I
Said
For cell
Phones
I've had
A blast
Of developing
A few
Applications
In it
But you
Know
Pretty much
I developed
For one
Particular
Cell phone
Because I
Know that
It has
This particular
Java
Environment
On it
And you
Know
It's got
A couple
Of these
Features
And I
Don't
Want to
Bother
Porting
It
To another
Cell
Phone
Because
I
Don't
Think
I
Should
Have
To
But
That's
The way
It turns
Out
And
Just
Not
It
Well
There
That being
Said
There are
Jobs out
There for
Java
Programmers
I don't
Know if
I'd say
A lot
Or
A few
I guess
Average
Amount
There is
Demand
For
Java
But
Again
Because
Of what
You
Just
Described
If
They're
Hiring
For
Cell
Phone
Development
They
Want
You
To
Know
Already
Out
Of
The
Box
J2
ME
Or
Whatever
The
Job
Happens
To
Call
For
So
It's
One
Of
Those
Things
That
If
You
Happened
Whatever
You
Happened
To
Learn
In
College
Whatever
Class
Is
Available
If
You
Learned
For
Example
I
Had
JSP
Java
Server
Pages
I
Had
To
Do
A
Project
In
JSP
I
Hated
Every
Second
Of
It
Was
Excruciating
Having
To
Do
JDBC
Drivers
Connecting
To
ODBC
Drivers
In
Window
It
Was
Just
God
Awful
I
Hated
Every
Second
Of
JDBC
Entirely
JDBC
Is
A
Piece
Of
Garbage
Yeah
And
It
Was
Just
Excruciating
It
Just
Horrible
So
However
Because
I
Do
Have
A
Little
Bit
Of
Experience
In
That
If
It
Did
Come
Up
In
A
Job
Interview
Or
Something
Like
That
I
Could
Say
That
I
Have
You
Know
If
They
Wanted
To
Hire
Me
To
Do
J2
ME
I
You
Know
I
Wouldn't
Be
To
Say
I
Could
Do
That
They
Asked
Me
About
JSP
I
Say
Yeah
I
Know
It
But
I
Don't
The
Java
So
Yeah
If
You
Have
The
Experience
Directly
In
A
Certain
Type
Of
Java
Environment
Like
You
Said
And
There's
Like
500
Different
Ones
Then
Yeah
You
Should
Be
You
Should
Be
Good
To
Go
But
Yeah
It
I
I'm
Really
Not
Sure
Why
I
Guess
They
Want
To
Be
Able
To
Run
It
Everywhere
But
You
Know
It's
Just
Poorly
Implemented
Like
You
Said
Yeah
It
Was
It
Was
Well
Intended
But
Poor
Execution
That
That's
Pretty
And
I
Mean
Anybody
Who's
Used
Java
Knows
It's
Slow
It's
Clunky
It
Crashes
A
Lot
The
Stupid
Virtual
Machines
And
All
That
It's
I
Don't
Like
It
But
That's
Just
My
Opinion
Like
I
Said
Some
People
Like
Voodoo
Hal
I
Know
Loves
It
He
Loves
It
But
Me
No
Can't
Stand
It
Alright
We're
Going
To
Keep
Going
Here
And
We're
Obviously
Well
Over
In
Case
You
Didn't
Figure
That
Out
But
We're
Going
To
Go
Back
And
Remove
Some
Earlier
Stuff
Because
This
Is
A
Pretty
Good
Topic
I
Think
The
Big
Job
Market
And
Should
We
Touch
On
This
Or
Should
We
Go
To
The
Web
Let's
Go
With
This
The
Biggest
Job
Market
That
I
See
Is
In
The
Visual
Languages
You'll
Find
More
Jobs
Out
There
For
Visual
C
Visual
C
Plus
Visual
C
Sharp
Visual
Basic
Really
More
Than
Anything
Else
And
I
Think
We
Can
Lump
Them
All
Together
Actually
Believe
It
Or
Not
Because
What
That
Means
A
We're
Talking
Microsoft
Only
Here
Talking
About
Windows
Development
Only
You're
Not
Going
To
Write
Something
In
Visual
Studio
That's
Going
To
Work
On
Linux
No
Matter
What
Porting
Or
Libraries
It
Won't
Happen
I
Don't
Think
It's
Possible
I
Don't
Think
It
Can
Be
Done
I
Don't
Think
Anyone
Has
Written
That
Or
Ever
Will
However
For
Windows
Development
I
Have
To
Admit
I
Like
The
New
Visual
Studio
Dot
Net
The
Old
Visual
Stuff
Was
Pretty
Well
For
Windows
Development
They
Had
Their
Pluses
And
Minuses
But
This
Last
Dot
Net
I
Think
They
Kind
Of
Got
Some
Things
Cleared
Up
Some
Good
Things
But
Let's
Back
Up
What
Is
A
Visual
Language
Well
Visual
Basically
Is
Referring
To
GUI
Development
Graphical
User
Interface
Which
Is
Everything
In
Windows
See
In
Linux
It's
Not
All
GUI
It's
Not
All
About
The
X
It's
Not
All
About
X
Windows
It's
Not
All
About
Clicking
And
Pointing
You
Can
Write
A
Lot
Of
Good
And
Great
Applications
That
Are
Completely
From
The
Command
Line
Running
Servers
And
Things
Like
That
Small
Footprint
You
Don't
Have
To
A
Bunch
Of
Overhead
Memory
Wasting
Libraries
Etc
And
Windows
You
Do
By
The
Nature
Of
It
So
If
Buzz
Word
Nowadays
Is
Rad
Rapid
Application
Development
It's
In
Very
Wide
Circulation
Businesses
Use
It
A
Lot
Because
It's
Very
Simple
And
It's
Called
Rapid
Application
Development
It's
A
Rad
Tool
Because
It
Automates
All
Of
The
GUI
Processes
For
You
Get
A
Canvas
And
I
Don't
Know
How
To
Describe
It
If
You
Never
Seen
It
But
Think
Of
It
As
An
Art
Program
Almost
You
Get
A
Canvas
Like
In
Paint
And
You
Draw
Your
Buttons
On
The
Screen
You
Can
Drag
And
Drop
The
Buttons
And
Your
Icons
And
Your
Drop
Down
Boxes
Wherever
You
Want
On
That
Canvas
And
Design
Visually
What
You
Want
Your
Application
To
Look
Like
Thus
The
Name
Visual
Basic
And
It
Takes
Care
Of
All
Of
The
Work
In
The
Libraries
To
Draw
The
Buttons
For
You
And
Draw
And
When
You
Click
The
Button
It
Will
Take
Care
Of
All
Of
That
For
You
Just
Have
To
Go
In
And
Say
What
Happens
As
Far
As
The
Actual
Action
It
Automates
That
For
You
And
That's
What
Visual
Basic
Has
Done
All
The
Visual
Language
Has
Always
Done
The
Problem
Comes
And
By
The
Way
Feel
Free
To
Jump
In
On
Me
Here
If
You
Want
To
Point
Something
Out
But
Visual
Basic
First
Of
Is
Not
Object
Oriented
That's
The
One
Knock
Against
Visual
C++
Is
Visual
C++
You
Know
I
Actually
Just
Jump
In
For
A
Second
I
Know
Somebody
Who
Programs
Visual
Basic
For
Living
And
I
Want
To
Say
That
They
Told
Me
The
Newest
Version
Of
Visual
Basic
Does
Have
Some
Object
Oriented
Construct
But
It's
Not
Fully
Object
Oriented
So
Just
Throw
It
And
I
Not
Really
Sure
What
He
Meant
By
Totally
But
I
Think
Visual
Basic
May
Be
Heading
To
Becoming
Object
Oriented
In
The
Future
Right
And
I
Think
I
Know
What
You
Mean
And
I
I'll
Touch
On
That
Has
To
Do
With
.net
And
The
.net
Architecture
And
Yeah
I'll
Touch
On
That
In
Just
A
Second
But
Going
Back
To
The
Old
Visual
Basics
Visual
Basic
Of
Freeware
And
Shareware
And
Stuff
That
Developed
In
That
You
Would
Always
Have
To
Include
Something
Called
VBRUN100.dll
Oh
God
I
Remember
You
Remember
This
Right
And
Then
When
Visual
Basic
2
Came
Out
You
Had
To
Include
VB2
VBRUN200.dll
And
300
Etc
And
That
Was
A
Hassle
Because
Basically
Those
DLL
Contains
All
Of
Those
Function
Calls
That
Were
Required
For
Visual
Basic
If
Your
Program
Is
Compiled
To
Use
Those
Function
Calls
And
You
Didn't
Have
Them
There
You
Would
Get
An
Error
So
That
Became
A
Problem
Because
Now
You're
Having
To
Deliver
That
DLL
All
The
Time
And
You
Get
What
Was
Commonly
Referred
To
As
DLL
Hell
Because
What
Happens
If
One
Person
One
Program
Sends
You
DLL
That's
An
Older
And
Or
Newer
Date
Than
You
It
Just
Caused
All
Kinds
Of
Headaches
And
You
Could
Write
Your
Own
DLL
And
Later
Versions
Of
Visual
Basic
You
Could
Write
DLL
With
Your
Own
Function
Calls
In
Them
But
You
Would
Have
To
Include
Them
And
Then
You
Got
These
Complex
Installs
Where
It's
Copying
DLLs
Everywhere
And
Your
System
Folder
Gets
Overloaded
With
All
These
DLL
Files
They're
Loaded
Into
Memory
They
Start
Draining
Your
Memory
They
May
Have
Duplicate
Function
Calls
And
Collisions
And
It
Was
Just
A
Just
A
Giant
Mess
Well
With
Visual
Studio
Dot
Net
They're
Going
Away
From
That
And
They're
Going
To
Something
Called
Microsoft
Foundation
Classes
Or
Microsoft
Class
Libraries
Where
You're
Able
To
Interface
Okay
Let me
Back
Up
Also
Visual
C
Visual
C++
Was
Similar
As far
As
Delivering
The
DLLs
And
Anything
That
Was
Compiled
In
That
DLL
For
Visual
C++
Obviously
Was
Only
Used
By
C++
It's
Like
Having
A
Function
In
That
Code
That
Would
Only
Work
With
Visual
C++
It
Wouldn't
Work
With
Anything
Else
With
Dot
Net
They've
Gone
To
A
Universal
Class
Library
Where
If
You
Want
To
Call
Something
Like
For
Example
A
Timer
You
Want
To
Write
An
Application
That's
A
Count
Down
Timer
There's
One
Universal
Class
Library
Called
Timer
That
Works
In
Both
Visual
Basic
And
Visual
C++
And
Visual
Sharp
C
Sharp
Or
Visual
Java
Or
Whatever
It
Happens
To
Be
It's
Supported
By
Any
Of
The
Dot
Net
If
It's
Written
In
The
Dot
Net
Architecture
It's
Universal
Across
Them
So
When
You
Say
Visual
Basic
Has
Some
Object
Oriented
Constructs
You
Can
Write
A
Function
If
You
Will
That
Can
Be
Called
By
Visual
Basic
Program
Written
In
Visual
Basic
Or
It
Can
Be
Written
In
Visual
Basic
Called
By
C
Program
Or
Written
In
C
Called
By
Visual
Basic
And
Vice
Versa
It's
Trying
To
Blur
Those
Lines
So
That
Is
Not
A
Problem
You
Still
Have
To
Distribute
All
Of
Those
Function
Calls
Somehow
And
That's
Why
Over
The
Past
Couple
Years
One
You
Had
To
Download
That
Well
That's
Because
Any
Of
The
Stuff
Developed
Is
Going
To
Use
All
Those
Function
Calls
So
They
Just
Have
You
Download
It
All
In
One
Big
Batch
Up
Front
So
You
Have
All
That
Stuff
In
Your
System
And
With
Longhorn
It
Will
Come
Shipped
With
It
Xp
Came
Shipped
With
Most
Of
It
Service
Pack
To
Etc
So
You
Have
That
On
Your
System
Already
Which
Kind
Of
Helps
With
The
DLL
Problems
However
Of
Course
You
Can
Still
Write
Your
Own
DLL
And
Distribute
Them
And
Stuff
Like
That
As
Well
So
Dot
Net
Is
Good
In
That
It
Becomes
A
More
Centralized
Thing
That
Way
You
Get
The
Ability
Of
Visual
Basic
To
Write
Out
Your
Application
With
The
Buttons
And
Everything
And
Make
The
Rapid
Access
Rapid
Application
Development
Of
How
It
Looks
And
Feels
And
Then
Still
Have
The
True
Object
Oriented
Functionality
Of
C++
So
That
You
Can
Write
Functions
In
C++
So
That
When
You
Click
A
Button
Maybe
It
Is
Easier
For
Me
To
Write
A
Timer
In
C++
Than
It
Is
Visual
Basic
I
Write
The
Front
End
In
Visual
Basic
The
Back
End
Of
C++
Compile
It
All
Together
And
Deliver
It
Out
Let's
Not
Get
Started
With
Ask
.net
Because
I
Think
Ask
.net
Is
A
Piece
Of
Shit
Well
Let's
Go
Into
That
Now
Before
We
Do
I
Just
Want
To
Repeat
Again
There
Are
A
Lot
Of
Jobs
For
Visual
Programmers
A
Lot
Because
The
Other
Thing
About
Microsoft
Is
The
Whole
Integration
Thing
Is
Not
Only
Have
They
Integrated
Their
Languages
They
All
Part
Of
Those
Class
Libraries
And
A
Conveniently
Enough
Tie
Into
SQL
Server
So
They
Also
Give
You
A
Lot
Of
Pre
Written
Code
That
Is
Point
And
Click
To
A
Certain
Extent
That
Makes
It
Easier
For
You
To
Extract
And
Insert
Database
To
Microsoft
SQL
Server
Or
Microsoft
Exchange
Server
So
If
You
Are
An
All
Microsoft
Shop
It
Is
Very
Helpful
And
Very
Useful
But
Again
It
Is
Only
For
Microsoft
Operating
Systems
Asp.net
Is
The
Exact
Same
Thing
Except
That
Instead
Of
Doing
The
Visual
Basic
Which
Would
Be
An
Application
An
EXE
File
That
You
Run
Asp
Is
Simply
The
Web
Front
End
You
Draw
The
Buttons
You
Draw
The
Drop
Down
List
Or
Whatever
It
Happens
To
Be
The
Function
Calls
And
Embed
It
Into
A
Web
Page
Asp.net
Will
Use
All
Those
Function
Calls
Except
You
But
You
Don't
Care
For
Asp.net
No
Are
You
Eating
On
The
Show
I'm
Starving
I
Didn't
Eat
For
The
Longest
Time
In
Any
Case
Asp.net
Sucks
There's
Example
Code
From
Microsoft
That
Does
Not
Work
It
May
Work
If
You
Have
All
Your
Server
Settings
Exactly
The
Same
Way
That
They
Do
Right
But
They
Conveniently
Leave
All
That
Out
Which
I
Think
Is
Ridiculous
Because
I
Have
Complete
Vanilla
Default
Installation
Of
Everything
So
It's
Almost
As
If
I
Open
Up
The
Box
Installed
This
Crappy
Software
And
Then
Tried
To
Use
Their
Examples
And
Nothing
Worked
So
And
Then
I
Was
Using
Session
Variables
And
All
That
Very
Simple
And
Other
Web
Development
Languages
But
It
Just
Didn't
Work
And
Ask
Pretty
Crappy
With
Session
Variables
Also
Yeah
But
I
Made
A
Simple
Change
Here
And
Then
All
Of
Session
Variables
Started
Working
But
Because
Of
The
Particular
Type
Of
Session
Handling
I
Had
I
Couldn't
Store
Certain
Types
Of
Session
Variables
So
It
Was
It
Just
A
Big
Mess
I
Personally
Think
It
Does
Do
A
Lot
Of
Cool
Things
That
Other
Languages
Like
PHP
Don't
Do
By
Default
They
Emulate
Them
Like
There
Is
Application
State
Variable
Where
You
Can
Create
Global
Variables
That
Are
Shared
Between
All
The
Users
Who
Connect
To
Your
Particulate
Ask
Dot
Net
Application
Which
Could
Be
Like
A
Set
Of
Web
Pages
Or
Something
Like
That
There
Is
Cool
Stuff
Like
That
There
Is
Events
Like
When
Somebody
Connects
To
Your
Website
It
Starts
Session
And
After
Twenty
Minutes
There
An
Event
That
Is
Called
If
There
Is
No
Activity
That
Closes
The
Session
So
You
Can
Actually
Have
Code
That
Sits
In
Your
Server
That
Will
Execute
20
Minutes
After
Somebody
Visits
Your
Site
And
Do
A
Little
Bit
Of
Clean
Up
Or
Update
Some
Counters
Or
Something
Like
That
Type
Of
Is
Cool
PHP
Doesn't
Have
It
Directly
But
You
Can
Emulate
It
Using
You
If
You
Know
A
Couple
Of
Tricks
Here
And
There
So
Ask.net
Is
On
The
Right
Track
To
Being
Something
Cool
But
Right
Now
It
Is
Just
A
Disaster
And
I
Hate
It
Right
And
That's
A
Very
Good
Summary
It
Is
On
The
Track
To
And
That's
What
All
Of
The
Dot
Net
I
Say
The
Same
Thing
For
All
Of
It
On
The
Track
To
The
It's
Going
The
Right
Way
It's
Going
The
Right
Way
But
It's
Still
Got
Some
Problems
From
One
Installation
To
The
Other
Like
You
Like
You
Said
Problems
From
One
Installation
To
The
Another
If
Yours
Doesn't
Match
Those
Exactly
Are
You
Swallowing
The
Phone
Or
What
No
I
My
Phone
Is
Just
Cutting
Out
I
Don't
Know
What
The
Hell
Is
Going
On
All
Right
Well
You
Also
Just
Mentioned
PHP
So
Let's
Move
On
To
That
Next
PHP
Of
Course
Is
Kind
Of
The
Open
Source
Version
Of
ASP
If
You
Will
Not
Exactly
That's
Probably
A
Bad
Comparison
But
I
Called
It
A
Long
Time
Ago
SQL
For
The
Web
And
That
Is
An
Oversimplification
But
I
Think
It's
Pretty
Accurate
For
A
General
Description
I
Like
To
Personally
Call
It
Perl
For
The
Web
Okay
It's
You
Know
Kind
Of
Built
Into
In
It
Directly
You
Don't
Need
To
Include
Anything
Except
The
Compile
Time
For
PHP
Itself
You
Could
Use
My
SQL
Or
Postgres
Or
Even
Microsoft
SQL
Server
Or
These
ODBC
Databases
Personally
I
Think
It's
Great
I
Don't
Know
That
There
Are
That
Many
There
Are
PHP
Jobs
Out
There
But
Nowhere
Near
As
Many
As
Ask
Net
Absolutely
But
I
Think
For
Hacking
Purposes
Like
You
Know
Not
Like
Rooting
Systems
But
I
Mean
For
People
Who
Are
Just
Interested
In
Technology
Who
Want
To
Start
Doing
Some
Web
Programming
And
Want
Minimal
Hassle
They
Can
Get
Running
With
PHP
Very
Quickly
And
There's
A
Lot
Of
Example
Code
Out
There
And
For
Personal
Stuff
I
Don't
Think
Anything
Beats
It
Right
Now
Yeah
It's
Very
It's
Very
Pearl
For
Web
Is
A
Very
Good
Description
Also
It
Allows
You
So
Easily
To
Manipulate
Data
And
We
Also
Would
Be
Remiss
If
We
Didn't
Mention
Just
Plain
Old
HTML
I
Mean
We
Have
To
Call
That
A
Language
It's
An
Interpreted
Language
Or
Whatever
But
PHP
Is
The
Server
End
The
Code
That
You
Write
That's
Going
To
End
Up
Generating
HTML
It's
Going
To
Generate
Code
That's
Interpreted
By
Your
Browser
PHP
Is
On
The
Server
Side
Which
Is
Why
You
Don't
See
PHP
Code
Ever
In
A
Browser
You
Can
Go
To
Schedule
.php
On
The
Bin
Rev
Radio
Page
You're
Not
Going
To
See
PHP
Code
You're
Going
To
See
The
HTML
Code
That
Was
Generated
By
The
PHP
So
The
PHP
Is
Kind
Of
An
Intermediary
Language
If
You
Will
It's
Going
To
Read
And
Write
Data
From
A
Database
Which
Is
Why
I
Call
It
SQL
For
The
Web
Some
But
Yes
That
Is
An
Understatement
It
Does
So
Many
Other
Things
Very
Similar
To
Perl
It's
Got
A lot
Of
Functionality
Where
With
A lot
Of
Looping
A lot
Of
If
Then
Cases
Sessions
And
A lot
Of
Things
It
Can
Deal
With
And
Then
Generate
That
Web
Page
So
It
Is
Very
Powerful
It's
An
Open
Source
Version
Open
Source
Web
Development
That's
I
Guess
You
Can
Say
Cross
Platform
I
Mean
Any
Web
Is
Cross
Platform
For
The
Most
Part
But
I
Guess
That's
Neither
Here
Nor
There
So
Really
That's
It
And
Like
You
Said
PHP
And
I
Have
To
Say
This
It's
An
Unfortunate
Reality
But
Truthfully
Most
Of
The
Unix
Languages
That
We've
Mentioned
Are
Not
Big
In
The
Job
Market
With
The
One
Sole
Exception
Of
Being
C
C++
In
My
Opinion
The
Majority
Of
The
Jobs
That
Are
Out
There
Are
In
The
Visual
Languages
So
If
You're
Looking
At
This
From
What
Should
I
Study
In
School
Or
What
Jobs
Are
Out
There
Are
A
Few
Mainframe
Jobs
I
Would
Not
Get
Into
It
If
I
Was
A
Young
Person
There
Are
And
From
A
Hacker
Stand
Point
Of
What
You
Can
Do
To
Write
Cool
Things
And
Use
For
Hacking
Purposes
Whether
It's
Data
Pillaging
Like
Our
Good
Friend
Not
Theory
Here
Or
Shell
Code
Or
Anything
Like
That
I
Think
Your
Best
Bet
Would
Be
Studying
Perl
And
C
And
Or
C
Plus
Because
C
Plus
Can
Do
Just
About
Anything
It
Is
Definitely
Complex
Can
Be
Very
Complex
And
Even
It's
Not
Simple
To
Begin
With
Quite
Honestly
But
You
Can
Do
Anything
With
It
C
Is
What
Things
Like
Shell
Code
Exploits
Are
Gosh
Any
Applications
Or
Tools
The
Majority
Of
Them
Are
Written
In
C
Plus
I
Gosh
I
Probably
Could
Have
Come
Up
With
A
List
If
I
Would
Have
Thought
Ahead
Of
Time
But
I
Can't
But
C
Plus
Is
Definitely
The
Way
To
Go
If
You
Want
To
Really
You
Can
Access
Memory
Registers
And
Things
Like
That
You
Can
See
What's
Going
On
Through
All
Of
The
Other
Things
From
The
Operating
System
You
Can
Peek
In
It's
Just
So
Powerful
And
Such
A
Great
Interface
With
Everything
That's
Going
On
So
Yeah
C
Plus
Is
Never
Going
To
Get
Old
You
Never
Going
To
Run
Out
Of
Things
You
Can
Do
With
It
Does
Pretty
Much
Everything
So
Perl
And
C
Plus
For
The
Hackers
Out
There
If
You
Really
Want
To
Learn
A lot
Of
Hacking
Stuff
And
Develop
Some
Hacking
Tools
Or
Of
Any
Of
The
Things
We
Talked
About
It
Depends
On
What
Your
Needs
Are
What
You
Want
To
Do
If
Your
Hacking
Tool
Happens
To
Be
Something
For
Windows
With
Button
That
Will
Convert
Binary
To
ASCII
For
Example
Then
Do
It
In
Visual
Basic
It's
Simple
But
If
You're
Going
To
Write
Something
A
Little
Bit
More
System
Level
Than
C
Plus
If
You're
Going
To
Write
Something
Repetitive
To
Parse
Through
Data
Go
With
Perl
Right
Tool
For
The
Right
Job
That's
Pretty
Much
The
Summary
Of
All
Of
This
Right
And
Actually
There's
Another
Class
Of
Languages
That
We
Didn't
Mention
I'll
Just
Mention
Very
Quickly
Because
Somebody
Told
Me
About
It
Maybe
A
Couple
Years
Ago
This
Guy
Who
I
Know
Who
Worked
In
Industrial
Automation
He
Said
Still
To
This
Day
Like
Systems
That
You
Like
Laser
Cut
Pieces
Of
Steel
And
Things
Like
That
Anything
That
Does
An
Industrial
Function
Like
That
A
Lot
Of
Still
Use
A
Program
Language
Called
Forth
I'm
Not
Familiar
With
It
But
If
You're
Interested
In
That
Type
Of
Thing
I
Say
Look
Up
Forth
See
Who's
Using
It
And
I
Don't
Know
I
Can't
I
Can't
Say
There's
A
Large
Job
Market
For
It
May
Be
Fun
To
Check
Out
Right
Yeah
We
Pretty
Much
We
Pretty
Much
Focused
On
PC
Based
Languages
And
We
Also
I
Mean
This
Is
Not
An
Exhaustive
List
We
Just
Kind
Of
Thought
Of
The
Ones
We
Thought
Would
Be
Appropriate
That
People
Would
Be
Interested
In
And
We
Didn't
Mention
Python
We
Didn't
Mention
There's
A
Lot
Of
Them
Out
There
That
We
Didn't
Mention
That
Are
Nothing
Wrong
With
Them
But
So
Don't
Write
In
Saying
You
Missed
This
You
Missed
That
We
Understand
That
You
I
Think
We
Focused
Whatever
The
Needs
Are
I
Had
So
Many
Languages
Through
All
Of
My
Years
Of
High
School
Through
College
Through
The
Work
Environments
And
On
The
Job
Training
And
Stuff
That
I
Feel
Confident
I
Can
Pick up
Any
Language
Fairly
Quickly
If
You
Understand
Concepts
And
Understand
Loops
Understand
Objects
And
Object
Oriented
Concepts
Understand
Database
And
Relationships
Between
Data
If
You
Understand
The
General
Concepts
As
Silly
As
That
Sounds
And
The
Theory
Which
I
Know
Not
Theory
Hates
Hearing
They
Say
That
If
You
Understand
The
General
Concepts
And
The
Ideas
Of
It
Everything
Else
Is
Syntax
And
Syntax
Just
Comes
With
Practice
So
Yeah
That's
Very
True
Like
You
Said
You
Know
The
Constructs
Looping
Recursion
All
That
You
Can
Learn
Anything
Absolutely
All
Right
Well
That
Being
Said
I
Guess
We'll
Wrap
It
Up
Here
We
Had
A
Very
Short
Email
Section
Today
Site
Of
The
Week
I
Found
Myself
Reading
The
Smoking
Gun
While
I
Was
Typing
These
Up
So
I
I'm
Going
To
Say
The
Smoking
Gun
Dot
Com
Is
The
Site
Of
The
Week
Nothing
Particular
On
There
Just
Generally
I
Go
There
They
Have
A
They're
Very
Good
At
Digging
Up
Police
Reports
And
Finding
Out
Who's
Been
Busted
For
What
And
Skeletons
In
The
Closet
And
Things
Like
That
And
What
About
Shout
Outs
This
Week
I
Think
We
Both
Can
Obviously
Agree
Shout
Outs
To
Everybody
Who
Participated
In
Freak
Factor
Definitely
And
What
Else
You
Got
I
Would
Like
To
Shout
Out
Two
Musicians
Who
I
Don't
Personally
Know
But
Their
Music
Got
Me
Through
The
Week
This
Week
One
Is
Ronnie
Size
Who
Is
A
Musician
From
The
UK
And
Another
One
Is
Richard
Cheese
And
Lounge
Against
The
Machine
He
Does
Lounge
Versions
Of
Pretty
Much
Any
Song
You
Can
Imagine
That's
Popular
And
They
Are
Hilarious
And
Yeah
I'll
Shout
Out
Two
Musicians
That
Help
Get
Me
Through
Every
Week
Jessica
And
Ashley
Simpson
Thank
You
Very
Much
Shout
Out
To
You
Just
Fantastic
Singers
Performers
Just
Amazing
That's
A
Joke
I
Can't
Believe
I
Forgot
That
I
Wanted
Them
On
My
List
Sorry
I
Already
Got
Dibs
We're
Going
To
Close
Out
Tonight
With
Something
I
Found
It's
A
Group
Called
TRS
80
Just
Reminiscent
Of
The
Old
TRS
80
Computer
Systems
The
Trash
80
That
I
Actually
Learned
Basic
On
In
Like
Sixth
Grade
Nice
And
This
Track
Is
Called
Dub
Matrix
Always
As
Always
Email
Us
Radio
At
Bin
Rev
Dot
Com
Like
I
Said
We
Cut
Back
A
Little
Bit
On
The
Email
This
Week
But
We'll
Probably
Catch
Up
On
Some
Of
It
Next
Week
But
We're
Going to
Start
Trying
To
Focus
Back
More
On
The
Main
Topics
Here
So
We're
Going to
Try
To
Really
Cut
Back
On
The
Email
A
Lot
Because
It's
Just
Taking
Up
Too
Much
Of
The
Show
So
Not
Theory
Thank
You
Very
Much
For
Doing
The
Show
Again
This
Week
Not
A
Problem
Always
Welcome
To
Beyond
We
Always
Like
Having
You
And
I
Think
We
Covered
Some
Good
Stuff
Tonight
So
I
Think
We'll
Close
It Up
And
Tell
Everybody
That
We
Will
See
Them
Next
Week
Same
Hack
Time
Same
Hack
Channel
Have
Link
Sometimes
Ph assisted
Good
Be
ested
saiyah
Maybe
I
berser �
연락
How
To
Mind
Doing
Part
Going
experiment
at
how
힘�
Open
Innovation
Where
Die
Or
Be
jeste
ему
Thank you.