This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you
in a fag pose.
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold.
I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcasts. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle.
Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.
To CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.
You feel that rattle in your bones when I tell you we just hacked out Jones?
And NASDAQ leaves your fight on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the critics.
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAMs, SIPs, SIPs.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.
Hello all you rapscallions out there. This is StankDog and you are listening to me.
Rapscallions? Where the hell did you find that term?
I'm going with my like old 50s. I was going with the 50s intro like, like ne'er...
50s? What 50s? 1850s?
Ne'er-do-wells and rapscallions and...
Rapscallions are the people who have like the handlebar mustaches and tied old ladies to the railroad tracks.
Yeah, that was leet.
That was like 1850s, not 50s.
I didn't say 1950s, I just said the 50s.
Oh.
Yeah, see I... see that's a social engineering trick.
You play it safe by being as vague as possible.
There you go.
You used the term olden days.
The... well yeah, that would have been... that would have worked too.
So, that tip brought to you by Binary Revolution Radio, episode number 95.
95, wow.
With StankDog and Black Ratchet, for those of you who don't recognize the voice.
Hello, hello.
Black Ratchet.
I'd just like to say, I'm enjoying a nice, ice cold glass of Coca-Cola, the hacker's choice.
Oh no, get out of here, you sell out Coca-Cola mainstream.
How dare you insult the Coca-Cola, I'm going to send the Coca-Cola Elite Special Ops team to your house.
Ah, great. Like I... like I need one more special ops team focusing on my house.
I already have to sit here in a tinfoil hat while we record the show.
Anyway, let's get on with the show.
So much for the clever, witty banter. I guess we failed miserably on that one.
I was just okay with the Rapscallion, I think.
Yeah, the Rapscallion was pretty funny. That's a good word. I'm going to start using that.
I'm going to just start calling kids that from now on.
They're going to like run home...
I always prefer the term poppycock when someone says something like, you know, BSE.
Oh, poppycock.
Oh, bollocks.
Bollocks. Bollocks is a good one. Bollocks is kind of British, though.
Yeah, I know, right?
Not bolden.
Yeah, and snog. That's my other British word that I learned recently from watching the EastEnders on PBS.
Oh, I love snog.
Yeah, snog is a good word.
I'm dating myself here. I learned the term snog from a British mud back in like, you know, 97, 96.
I felt like incredibly noobish when I had to ask one of the British people there.
What's snog?
So you had to tiny snog. You had to cyber snog.
But you want to do some housekeeping?
Sure, why not?
Yeah, let's do some housekeeping.
Let's do some housekeeping at this point.
Actually, I only have one housekeeping thing unless you had something.
Actually, you might have something with our recompile, some things to talk about.
But the only thing I wanted to bring up is kind of a follow-up on last week's episode of Freak Factor, episode two of Freak Factor.
We mentioned some of them at the opening of that show before it turned into an all-out complete mess.
But I still think that was kind of cool, as a side note.
So we are going to change the show now to two hours instead of it being a four-hour open mic night kind of deal, which we thought we were going to do the whole time.
We were going to treat it like not worth saving.
We knew it was all going to be disposable.
We knew that it was going to be a lot of dead air.
It wasn't all going to be great material and content-laden.
We just figured there would be enough fun stuff in there to keep people involved and to play along.
Well, we did not expect that people would be so into downloading and listening to it later.
Now, I realize there are time differences that cause that, and people aren't able to partake of it.
But when you listen to it back, they're not always going to be gems of episodes.
They're not always going to be funny.
They're not always going to be interesting.
They're not always going to be coherent a lot of the times.
I'd give them interesting, but not interesting in the usual way.
Yeah, it was – see, and this is the thing, is we've – from day one, we've always said about Freak Factor that it is going to be –
you know, it is a reality radio show, and that encompasses everything that goes along with reality, including the screw-ups, the mistakes,
the assholes that are going to jump on and tone the line out.
We even said that in the description back when we first announced it and things like that.
We knew that was going to happen.
And it's the reality that I find interesting is how we will be dealing with it as it goes along.
So we had some technical problems on this last episode.
It didn't stop the show from streaming.
We still had already established that and got it working.
We were trying to do some other stuff on the fly as the show went along.
And it was hit and miss with success, and we learned from it.
And that's part of the reality and part of the – I don't know – the show that I find interesting.
It's not always necessarily –
We learned not to kick certain people off the conference.
Yeah, I apologize.
For a certain type of connection.
I apologize again for that, but, you know, we had to do –
We were both very sorry that that happened, but you've got to admit, it was pretty funny.
It was pretty funny because I was kicking people like nothing.
And I'm sure they were in there.
I just couldn't hear them.
They were probably there going, no, no, I'm here.
Don't kick me out.
They were probably cussing at me and everything else.
But anyway, the show – it's not the show so much where you focus on the content to me.
It's a show that's interesting because of the process.
That's what I find interesting.
So, again, I've kind of said all along that that's what the show is going to be about.
That's what makes it different.
And people that are tuning in thinking it's going to be an action-packed show every week,
I'm sorry to tell you it's going to have a lot of wild, crazy, funny, chaotic things happen.
I like it.
It might not be your cup of tea.
So just keep all that in mind when you listen to and participate in Freak Factor.
It is pandemonium.
It certainly is.
And we're going to try some things to sometimes clean that up, but other times we're not.
I mean, the general layout of the show is exactly what it has been because right now while we're working on it,
we are making it a point to open the show up, try to keep it together and organize.
But there's going to be days where we're not even available.
There may not be someone on there to open it up.
Just at 11 o'clock, bam, you're live.
You're on the air.
It's streaming with no announcements.
So there's going to be a lot of different things going on in the future with Freak Factor.
It is something that we're going to keep doing.
So hopefully people will find it interesting from that same aspect.
I think hopefully at least someone will be there, at least, you know, moderating it.
Well, that's actually the kind of the – yeah, we'll try.
I mean, we've got enough people hopefully to make that happen.
But I find it interesting that a lot of people were saying that it was boring and et cetera, et cetera,
but we still had an enormous amount of listeners on the stream.
We had as many this time as we do for BinRev.
How many listeners do we have?
I think the highest I saw this past week listening live to the stream was 48.
Wow.
But last week it was maxing out at 50.
And if you remember, I had to upgrade more – add more slots to the server, not upgrade it,
but I had to reconfigure the server to allow more listeners.
So this week we didn't need them as it turns out.
We hit 48.
We didn't break the 50.
But it's there if we need it.
And I think, again, some of that was because people did leave because there were people toning it out
and making it, well, not really that fun.
Not a freak-friendly environment.
Yeah, well, you know, you've got to deal with the Trons of the world, and that, again, is part of the reality.
You know, see, I was going to stay away from that, but you just blew it right over.
Well, he's the – I mean, if we're going back to the 1850s and the time people are railroad tracks,
he's our Snidely Whiplash, basically.
I mean, he is the Snidely Whiplash.
I think a good, like, 80% of the audience did not understand that.
No, is that that obscure, really?
Snidely Whiplash, is that obscure?
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I don't think many people watch that show.
Oh, okay.
Well, I guess I'm dating myself now.
Well, Pixel Fiend got it, I bet you.
He always gets those.
Yeah, I'm sure he did.
I think it stands to reason – I'm on the bottom edge, I think, of actually people who would know that.
So I'd say the cutoff is, like, somewhere, anywhere – tell me, if anyone under 22 knows that reference,
you know, email the show, email me, email Stank.
Yeah, if –
One of the three.
And tell us how.
Tell us how you know about it.
And please don't make the answer, I Googled it or I looked it up.
That's not fair.
Did you actually know it without looking it up?
I'm curious.
I made a Ghostbusters reference in the channel today, and I was very thoroughly disappointed when I realized that
probably close to 50% probably didn't get it.
Oh, come on.
Everybody knows Ghostbusters.
I don't know.
I don't know about that.
Oh, come on.
Wow.
We are really old.
Okay.
Anyway, you know what?
How about stop depressing me before I do the show like this?
Man.
Holy crap.
Now I'm so old.
Thank you very much for bringing me down.
Well, do you want to hear something really weird?
Probably not, but go ahead anyway.
Okay.
Pardon me, do you have any Grey Poupon?
Yeah, what about that?
They don't know that either?
I hear nobody just got that in the audience.
Yeah, they do.
That was a famous commercial also.
Like, where is it?
I made a joke of that when I was a senior in college, and no one below, well, technically
it's a five-year college, so there's a middler.
It's a third-year student.
No one below middler got it.
Hmm.
What about Where's the Beef?
That was damn depressing.
What about Where's the Beef?
Hmm, that's a good question.
I don't know.
I understand that.
Yeah.
All right, anyway, let's get into some...
I'm going to email.
Yeah, let's do some...
Actually, no, there's one other housekeeping, or I don't know if you've announced this,
but we recompiled to give you some more functionality for Yapple.
Oh, yes.
Yapple.org has been moved over to the bin rev server.
That's Yapple.org.
Oh, boy, is it fast?
Yapple.org, he meant to say.
Yapple.org.
I'm going to register Yapple.net, just so we don't have to get into this.
Organization.
Yapple.org has been moved over to the bin rev server, and it is blazingly fast.
Cool.
And I have some features in the pipe that are going to actually be deployed now that we have, like, it fast.
And I have a Hack TV segment relating to that as well that I haven't told you about yet, but we'll talk about off the air.
Yeah, yeah, I'm actually curious now.
That's the first time I've ever heard of it.
Yeah, it's pretty straightforward, and it's pretty obvious, actually.
But anyway, yeah, let's do a little email first.
We had a lot of feedback, a lot of email this week, even more than usual.
Well, we get, you know, 20-plus each week anyway, but we got a lot more based on the episode last week, our episode about programming languages with not theory.
That programming language show was a leap.
It was – I thought it was something that would be helpful to a lot of people who might not be familiar with it.
So it is exactly what it was – what we intended it to be, and that was, like, an overview.
We chose – we had so many emails and feedback that I just could not read all of them.
And so that's what I wanted to announce is I got a lot of great email going into a lot of depth on some of these specific languages and topics and things.
But it was just so overwhelming.
There's no way I can get it all into the show.
So let's see.
What else was I going to say?
Oh, actually, I think it would be a very cool topic to take – and that's – you're going to make mistakes and misspeak about things.
I think I just over – not overstated – I overlooked some things or misrepresented some things when you're trying to cover so many different ones.
It's kind of hard to shift gears sometimes.
Every individual one of those languages could be a show in and of itself and probably multiple shows.
Amen.
So any one of those topics, I would love to spend a show, an episode, and talk about a lot more depth and detail and actually spew some code on the air.
It's not really – radio, unfortunately, doesn't lend itself well for that.
But at least talk about some techniques.
I want you to see how – how do you pronounce it?
See-out or cout?
Yeah, right?
Cout.
Kin and cout?
Is that –
I was always pronounced – I always pronounced it cout and sin.
Well, I don't think that I've ever pronounced them, to be quite frank.
I don't think I've ever had to pronounce them.
In my head, that's – I, you know, I was trying to explain it to somebody.
They said, what?
No, c-o-u-t, cout.
Ah, gotcha.
They just kind of looked at me funny.
But, you know, they always sort of do that.
Ah, well, yeah.
Just like the girls.
Even when you're not talking tech, that happens, so.
Yep.
Oh, all righty.
So, yeah, maybe sometime in the future we'll dedicate some shows here and there and get some people on that are experts in those particular fields and languages and stuff.
So, again, the show was what we announced it to be, an overview and kind of an opinionated view.
So, a lot of the things in there were opinion-based.
So, I think it did a good job in covering all that.
And we did get a lot of mostly positive feedback.
Almost actually, there was – even the feedback we got that were corrections or clarifications, I think is a better word.
I don't think I totally misspoke on anything too badly.
But I'm sure you're going to let me know.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Okay.
And I did pick a couple emails of people who I think were able to put it into words more eloquently than I.
How about that?
So, anyway, let's jump into some email.
We've got some general email as well as some programming stuff.
So, we're going to look at the – let's see.
First email this week comes from someone who goes by Rookie, which I think they just made that up.
Rookie says,
I'm not sure if this email address is still used, but I just thought I'd drop a quick note to say that I've reached episode 32 after a four-day weekend.
I can't wait until I manage to get up to date and can drop in on the IRC room and listen to the live stream.
Nice job on the show to everyone on the DDP team.
I really enjoy listening, and I keep learning a lot all the time.
All right.
Thank you very much, Rookie.
This email address is still used.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, I think we – that's the first question.
I just want to state that for the record.
First question answered.
Of course, that goes without saying.
That's pretty obvious, but thanks for insulting our listeners' intelligence.
Everybody, BlackRatchet at BlackRatchet.org.
If you want to email and tell him that you're not a bunch of dumbasses that have to have something explained to them like that.
I'm just saying for the record.
I think it deserved to be clarified.
I'm just trying to generate some hate mail for you.
That's all.
I don't receive any email.
Someone email me.
I get my email address out of the show all the time.
Just, you know, I don't know.
Send me something.
Yeah.
There you go.
Now you're going to get pics from the ladies.
I'm a fan.
You get pics from the ladies now.
Okay.
Did that girl email you from the last show with the naked lady types?
Yes and no.
Actually, I'll say this on the air.
I'm not ashamed to say this.
I actually emailed her and kind of apologized because, you know, it was kind of...
We were joking, but some people don't take that show.
I apologized up front saying, hey, you know, we were just playing around, right?
So she's actually very, very nice about it.
And I'm not reading an email from her again, but we're playing around on the show.
And you know what?
She's one of the first people, listener, male, female, or otherwise, who actually liked being
a part of the joke.
She didn't turn into a, you mispronounce my name, you asshole, I hate you, burn in hell.
You know?
Or, your accents suck and you've insulted all Australians everywhere.
No, she was cool about it.
So...
Good for her.
Yeah, I thought that was...
That gave me a little special feeling.
And not...
And you are a gentleman and a scholar for apologizing.
I don't know about all that.
Now, come on now.
I've got to rep.
I've still got to maintain a reputation here.
I've still got to play the asshole card for a while.
A gentleman and a hacker.
Fine.
I don't know.
Okay, whatever.
Anyway, why did this turn into, like, a very special episode of Binary Revolution Radio?
Yeah, I hope...
You know how we're kind of saying we're going to try to keep this to an hour.
I don't think it's going to work.
Yeah, I know.
Would anybody get a reference if I made a very...
If I said a very special episode of Blossom?
Is that one also wrong?
Maybe.
Anyway, let's go...
Yeah, let's get on topic here.
Let's get on...
Okay, we're...
Okay, hold on.
I'm going to take...
Oh...
Muasa.
Okay, I'm in the zone.
All right, we're ready?
All right, we're going to go right through the email now.
We're not going to get sidetracked.
All right, here we go.
I'm going to tell him that...
I hope that you've gone to IRC by now and enjoyed it.
Thank you very much.
And there are...
Actually, there's a lot of cool people that hang out in there, and there's chatting and
people talking all the time at almost any point that I pop in there.
I idle in there.
I know Black Ratchet, you idle in there.
Hack and Slash.
He lives in there.
Yeah, I don't think he has a life.
Yeah, there's a lot of people that hang out in there, and very intelligent people.
People that work for some very interesting places and have a wide variety of knowledge.
I do give you a little bit of a warning that just because you may see someone in there,
they very well might be idling.
I will leave that thing idling sometimes for 15, 20 hours while I'm at work or while I'm
asleep.
I just stay connected so that I log the whole thing.
I am usually from there from 9 to 5 Eastern.
Yeah, I will get on from...
I usually try to check it regularly, but you know, I am at work, so they do pay me not
to idle in the IRC.
Exactly.
Fortunately, but...
So I'll pop in a couple times.
I'll pop in a couple times during work just to see what's going on and say hey or take
out some frustrations from work on people in IRC.
That's always fun.
Oh, yes.
Yes, I've done that as well.
But yeah, there's generally over 50 people in the channel regularly, so you'll find a
lot of good conversation there, and don't wait until you catch up on episodes to hop
in.
I mean, that shouldn't be holding you back.
All right, email number two comes from Jalada.
Jalada.
I live in the UK, and therefore, BinRev Radio starts at about 2.30 a.m. and finishes at
4 a.m.
Obviously, I can't stay up to listen.
I have school the next day.
Was that...
Dog.
Bad?
Real bad?
Yes.
Okay.
I know you have the podcast...
You do...
Wait a minute.
Can you do a British accent?
No.
Come on.
I got a Scottish accent, but...
Well, I don't think...
I don't know.
Technically, if he lives in the UK, he could definitely live in Scotland, couldn't he?
Um, you know what?
I couldn't be more ignorant on that.
I wouldn't even venture a guess.
I'm going to venture a guess and say yes, because I do believe the United Kingdom incorporates
Scotland, Britain, and Northern Ireland.
Yeah, Ireland.
I thought...
Northern Ireland.
I don't know.
I have no idea.
I admit my ignorance in geography.
Email your corrections to blackratchett.org.
Just email him for crying out loud.
Okay.
Um, I have school the next day.
I know you have the podcast that is updated after the show.
However, due to time zones, this ends up not happening until about Wednesday afternoon.
To cut to the point, me and my mate, I believe you got an email from him ranting about British Telecom.
Actually, I think we did.
You might have been on that episode.
I don't remember.
Um...
It's about phones, so I think I would have remembered it.
Yeah, Sefron.
I like to listen to BinRev Wednesday morning at school.
To do this, I am using StreamRipper, which is available at streamripper.sourceforge.net, in case anybody's interested,
uh, to listen and download from the station overnight, ready for me to put on my iPod shuffle in the morning.
However, because I have set it up as a cron job, and so it should be pretty much without too much trouble,
I ought to ask if it's okay for me to continue.
It's not much bandwidth, but if I'm taking up one of the valuable user spaces and you don't agree with it, then I will stop.
Cheers, and see you on IRC.
Okay, Jalada, just so you know, we've scrambled the British Recording Artists Association to your house.
I'll be there in a moment, so just, you know, delete it from your hard drive before the show up.
You know, I'm going to put, I'm going to issue a contest right now.
Mm-hmm.
There's no prize or reward or anything, but...
But if you send me a recording, send me an MP3 file of you doing a British accent, you, the listener, any one of you,
if you're truly from Great Britain, that'll be the best of all.
We'll use you for the examples, and I will play them on the air.
This is your shot to get your voice on the air.
I will play them on the, uh, 100th episode.
No, not the 100th.
I'll play them on the...
Actually, maybe I will.
I'll put them on the 100th, or should I put them on the 104th anniversary episode?
I will use them...
I think the 104th would be pretty cool.
Yeah, I will put them on an upcoming...
We've got a lot of stuff planned for 104.
That's the reason I'm not sure about that one.
Uh, we'll see.
We'll send them in, and we will use them on either 100th or 104th.
Send them in a short clip, no more than, uh, say, 15 seconds.
Of them saying what?
Say, I don't, um...
Stank Dog, this is a proper British accent or something.
I don't know.
Stank Dog is a noob.
Yeah, you can say Stank Dog is a noob, as long as you do it in British...
I think it would be cool.
No, what I'm saying you should do, they should send in, uh, British Leet Speak.
How they pronounce it over in British...
Ooh, I like that.
I like that.
Yeah, there it is.
There's the challenge.
You are not the Leet Soar.
You are Fajir.
Fajir and...
Cheerio.
There you go.
That's the challenge.
So, email those to radio at venrev.com.
We can handle the attachments.
Not a problem.
Plenty of space.
Okay, so...
To the question at hand, I kind of mentioned this earlier about how we had run out of slots
on that first freak factor.
Uh, all I did is had to increase them.
That was just a configuration problem.
No, nothing more, nothing less.
No bandwidth problems exactly.
Nothing like that.
So, it was just a sign of the station growing and us getting more listeners and that's pretty
much it.
So, feel free to rip the stream whenever you want to.
Um, one person is not going to hurt it.
A few people doing that, it's perfectly fine.
We welcome that.
Whatever it takes to get people listening to the show, we're completely, we're all for it.
We'll support it and we'll do whatever we can to accommodate it.
So, that's an easy answer.
Um, you feel like doing an email or what?
I think I'll do the next few, sure.
Okay.
And we have an email from Chris that says, yo, stankin' co-hosts.
And I'll just reply back saying, hey, random listener.
Okay.
He says, I love your show.
I'll get straight to the point because I know you don't like long emails.
As you are in episode 93, I just would like to ask if you would do an extra special episode
for number 100.
I'm going to get your three magazine pack once I get the money.
Yay!
I've been listening to your show, P.S.
I've been listening to your show for a long time and I feel this is embarrassing, but what
does the words elite or leet or leet, and he has different misspellings here, um, you
know what I mean.
And we do know what you mean.
They're not misspellings, they're alternate spellings.
Alternate spellings, yes, there we go.
There you go.
Technically, when you say L-I-T-E, that's light, but...
Uh, no, he's got an apostrophe in front of it.
The apostrophe means it's replacing a letter, in this case E.
Oh, come on, you don't want to debate leet with me.
See, here's my whole thing about leet.
I contend that in leet, there is no misspellings.
There's no such thing.
Um, but anyway, that's a whole nother topic.
Yeah, I think the way you type.
Yeah, right.
Exactly.
Um, actually, we just mentioned this a second ago, so, um, yeah, I guess we kind of just
said that episode 100 would be a special.
It's actually going to be another telephonic craptacular.
We're going to have some phone calls.
We already have some stuff recorded, some interesting, um, interesting things.
Didn't we talk about this on IRC as going to be the telephonic craptacular extravaganza?
Oh, yeah, I think this was going to be the...
Well, because this is going to be the last one.
It'll be 100 or something.
This is going to be the last official telephonic craptacular.
So, yes, it will be the telephonic craptacular extravaganza, year-end finale.
I don't know.
This will be the extravaganza because, you know what, we've got Freak Factor now, and
that's going to be where phone calls and stuff are going to be happening.
So, gathering together every 25, like we've been doing traditionally, it's fun and all,
but, um, it's kind of hard to do them, quite honestly.
So, I'd rather just do them spontaneously on Freak Factor and just get them out there
because the other fun thing is you'll get to hear some of the failures, some of the
ones that don't work out because they don't always work the first try or the second try
or the tenth try.
Calling Sony support.
I do have a funny one.
Don't ruin it.
That's going to be on this upcoming one.
Oh, it is going on.
Sorry.
It took a couple tries to get that one to work.
Well, it depends on which Sony one you're talking about, but anyway.
The one that we did right the night before episode 75 or whatever it was.
Oh, yeah, that was on 75, but, yeah.
Oh, yeah, that was.
Yeah, I have a better one.
I have another one for the upcoming one.
But, anyway, don't give it away.
Don't give away my stuff.
Also, yeah, I also just mentioned that episode 104, that is our second year,
anniversary special.
I have a lot of things that I want to do that I've got planned that I'm going
to try to do.
I don't know how long it's going to take.
I've spoke with Rant Radio about maybe expanding our time slot for that special
episode, which is going to be special for a number of reasons.
But two years is a very big accomplishment, and I'm very proud of it.
So I wanted to, I'm not going to give any of it away, but there's going to be a lot
of stuff.
If there's one episode to listen to live, that is the one to do it with.
So make sure you come around for that.
Is it 104 going to be live?
A 104 will, I'm planning on.
Oh, if all goes according to plan, will it be live?
Parts of it, yes.
Parts of it?
Parts of it.
I would like to, well, see, I don't want to give this all away.
I want to do some.
Okay, well, let's move on in.
Let's talk about Leap Speak.
Now I have to, because we've opened it up.
But the short, long and short of it is, I'd like to do a pre-recorded, maybe I'll do a
pre-recorded hour and a half, normal length show, and then go live on DDP Hack Radio or
something like that.
I don't know.
We will see.
In Riverview, this is your life.
Nobody knows that one either, by the way.
They watch Sesame Street, they might have.
Hmm.
I was singing Sesame Street on Freak Factor, by the way.
Did you catch that?
Yes, I did.
That was kind of scary.
And actually, at that point, I believe I was watching Full Metal Alchemist.
Yeah.
Because you are cutting into my Saturday Night Anime.
Oh, jeez.
Like, you can't watch that any time?
Well, I mean, I have a TV, but I want to see it live.
It was the finale of, like, two of them.
Oh, please.
Dude, it was like episode 26, A Ghost in the Shell.
I mean, you know.
Shit, I have to watch that.
I think, you know what I think?
I think you, or somebody, you, maybe you and somebody, I think DDP Hack Radio needs an anime
show.
Well, there's certainly enough material for it.
Black Ratchet at Black Ratchet.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm serious.
I would totally put that on.
I think that's a cool show.
Yeah, I'll do that.
That's no problem.
I think you've got other, a lot of other things on your plate right now.
Yeah, so sadly, I'll coordinate it.
There we go.
I was going to say, you can help out.
I'll help minions.
As far as the word elite, I mean, there is no magical story, if that's what you're looking
for.
There's really no special, like, history to the word, other than the simple fact of what
the word means.
I mean, it means the same in hacking circles as it does in other circles.
It's just that we tend to use the word more than the normals.
It's a word we used on, like, the first episode of the show that I've always found appropriate.
The normals don't use words.
They use words like cool.
You can use it in place of cool if you want.
That's cool.
That's awesome.
We don't say cool or awesome.
We usually say elite.
Actually, I want to interview you here.
I was flipping through the TV, and for some reason, I somehow stuck it on, like, you know,
Pimp My Ride, or one of those, like, you know, Let's Bling Out the Car Shows.
All right.
And I did hear one of the, you know, hosts say, man, that is elite.
I was like, oh, my God, he did not just say that.
Oh, no.
If they, man, we can't let it go pop.
We can't let elite speak go pop.
Please.
Yeah, I was shocked and triggered when I saw that, at which point I was just like, I
didn't see that, and I started flipping at the channels immediately.
Oh, man.
That is so not cool.
That is elite.
I was like, oh, God, no.
Yeah, that's not cool at all.
I'm going to have to find a new cool word.
Yeah.
Anyway, it's, um.
But luckily, he didn't call anyone a noob, so.
Yeah, not yet.
Give him time.
Yeah, I know.
Oh, man.
I'm going to be like, you know, DJ noob in the noob festival.
DJ elite.
All right.
DJ in your neck.
Like, but just in general, you know, just a general definition of elite.
Is that somebody or something that is just the top of the, top of the, the best of the
best.
I, I, just something that rises above everyone else.
Something that is absolutely elite in comparison.
It can be referring to something else.
Like, you can say, um, that article from Lucky 225 is the most elite article in that
issue of 2600.
Yeah.
So that way.
Like, it's, it's essentially, you just compare it like, you know, oh, man, that's elite.
That's essentially, you know, a regular person saying, oh, man, that's cool.
Right, right.
It's so, but it, it can be used if you're referring to something specifically like the
most elite of this or the most elite of that.
Or, yes, like you said, just a general term to describe something, oldschoolfreak.com
is elite or elite or whatever.
So they're all, the word, it doesn't matter how you spell it or whether you say elite,
elite, 31337, whatever, it all means the same thing.
It's just that instead of words like cool, hackers generally dig deeper into their vocabulary
for different words than common words.
I don't know.
We're just more creative that way, I guess.
I guess.
I guess, I guess, as soon as they take elite away, we'll come up with something else, I
bet, I guess.
Like, um, Rapscallion.
Yeah, that's going to be, that's going to be so hard to, like, you know, type of, like,
you know, apps and number ones.
One, one, LOL.
Okay, um, let's see.
You want to, you want to do, tell you what, why don't you finish out the email today?
Can you do, you do the email.
Okay, we have an email from Febster, and he says, I believe the basic language is still used
in calculator applications, and the TI-83 and the like.
That's the only way, that's the only way it's really used for that I know of.
And I'm going to say that a TI-83 does not use basic.
It uses a, a very simple language, but it does not use basic, not in any way, shape, or form.
I thought it was actually called TI-Basic.
If it's, it's, if it's basic, it's not, it's not, it bears a little resemblance of the actual basic.
I, I really have no idea on this, but I thought that, yeah, some calculators use it.
I thought it was actually called TI-Basic, but I could be way off on that.
It, it might be.
I'm not exactly sure of what the title is, but I believe that it, I mean, I think it used
some similar commands, but it really doesn't work that way.
Hmm, well, isn't basic also used for a lot of microcontrollers?
They're written in some basic language.
It's not, maybe not traditional basic that we know, and maybe, like you said, some sort
of hybrid with assembly or some kind of lower level basic, and maybe that is the same with
the TI, because you're interfacing with hardware directly.
Maybe it's a little bit of a, a bastardized version of basic.
I don't know.
I guess you could say that.
Well, he, I mean, yeah, okay, I'll agree with you there.
Yeah, I, I just don't, I don't see, the whole, the point we made, and the reason that the
Fubster wrote in is because we had said that basic is basically dead.
There's no need for it, no use for it.
Um, we did say that it is there, and we're not disrespecting or saying it doesn't exist,
but if you're thinking that you're going to get a job in it, no, that's not, probably
not going to happen, and especially not like you're going to get experience and then go
get a job, and you might learn it after you get to a job or something like that.
It might be necessary for you to learn it, but you're not going to study that in college.
You're not going to, like, go after that.
I wouldn't waste time with that, and, and generally for hackers, unless you've got the calculator
and you want to hack away at it, there's not really much need for most hackers to use
basic in general either.
I, I wrote programs for my calculator, that's about it.
Yeah, that's, that's.
I'm going to have to find my TA-83, and I'm going to have to look at that now.
Yeah.
All right, and, uh, one more, let's do one more email, and then we, we still have time,
we'll do our main topic, we've still got good time left.
Oh, we've got plenty of time left, we've got a week to half hour.
Oh, yeah.
And so we have an email from CodeMonkey, and it says, hello, Mr. Dog, even though I'm reading
it, but anyway, first let me off, first off, let me say, what's
up to you and your current co-host?
Yay!
I just had a few quick things that I want to touch on.
Last week, episode 94, you talked about VB.net being an OOP, or Object-Orient Programming.
Not, I'm sorry, not being, not being.
Not being, oh, sorry.
I, I, I said last week.
I told you, I can't read these emails.
As you know, I'm a VB.net programmer.
Ooh, I feel sorry for him.
I write a lot of programs in data retrieval and parsing, what we refer to as page scrapers.
Everything in VB.net is now an object.
This is due to the class structure.
Everything inherits from system, example, system.operatingsystem, or system.encryption,
and so on.
If any of your listeners would be interested in a decent, very tech-based, sometimes dry
radio show about .net programming, they should check out www.franklins.net and click on
.net rocks in the corner.
Also, I've heard you talking about the few, past few weeks slash month about your in-house
server.
You have mentioned that you are using an MS Server 2003 that is now a dynamic storage
set up with spinning.
I was wondering why you would do this, because it has zero fault tolerance.
I may be making an ask myself right now, because I know you were talking about this on a past
show.
I just didn't hear your reason for using spinning.
With a terabyte of space spread out over seven hard drives, it would make the most sense
to you, RAID 5.
Anyway, I'm sure you know all of this, but I thought it would make a suggestion anyway.
I also wanted to know how much did your server cost you when you built it?
All right.
I can't answer this question, considering that I don't work at your place.
Okay.
Let me start with the bottom and work backwards on this email, then.
How much did I spend on the server when I built it?
Well, it's not a real server, it's a hacker server, which means it's an old box I had laying
around.
So, it's an Athlon 2000, I think.
It might be an Athlon 1800, but it's somewhere in that ballpark range, 512 RAM.
I don't have a box with less than 512 anymore.
So, it's not like I spent any money and bought a nice server.
I put together what I had laying around, which is also why it's a bunch of EIDE hard drives.
They're not serial ATA.
They're just good old-fashioned IDE.
So, not the best top-of-the-line solution for backups or whatever, but, you know, I'm
making do with what I had.
The only thing that I really spent any money on were the hard drives themselves.
I did go, I bought those a while back, actually, in preparation for this.
And I bought, like, I think four in one batch and then two in another batch.
And I paid, like, either $89 or $99 for them.
And I waited, and you can, if you're just patient and watch and plan ahead, you can buy
hard drives, 250-gig hard drives for $99 all day, not all day long, but if you just watch
once every month or two, Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, Compuso, whatever your local store of choice,
Circuit Shitty, they'll always have.
Do you have a five-ton of Florida?
I'm curious.
No, we don't, but I know a lot of people do, so that's why I mentioned it.
No, we don't have those.
When I go to DEF CON, I'm going to Fry's.
Trump is going to take me in.
He says it's an experience, so I need to go.
Yeah, I definitely don't.
We have none of them up in Boston.
Yeah, well, count me in on that.
Oh, yeah, that's true.
Yeah, we'll be there, won't you?
Yeah, hopefully.
I think we're going to have a DEP field trip.
We're going to get a big, big, yellow, short, yellow bus, and we can all, like, you know,
hang out the windows and go, whee!
Oh, see, why has it got to be a short bus?
What's up with that?
Oh, look at our crew, geez.
Oh, yeah, I guess good point, you're right.
All right, well, we'll take a short bus trip to the strip club, if that's what we've got to do.
Anyway, 99 bucks.
That'd be pretty funny watching that pull in.
Yeah, it's 99 bucks, 89 bucks, no rebates.
If you just watch around, you can usually find that deal just about anywhere, so it's not that rare anymore.
The storage is so cheap now.
So, that's for, again, for IDE, not for serial ATA.
Serial ATA, you'll have to look a little bit harder to find those prices, and you might not.
I mean, that's pretty, I don't know if I've seen those, but anyway.
I just want to interrupt you for a second.
Sure.
Doug says he loves you.
Well, of course he does.
I mean, can anybody not love all the stankness that is me?
Oh, wait a minute.
Yeah, I guess everybody doesn't, except for Tron.
Tron loves me.
Ask him if, ask Doug if he loves me more than Tron.
That's the real question.
If he loves me more than Tron, then that's something.
Then I'd be, then I might get verklempt.
Do you love Stank more than Tron?
I can't believe you're talking, chatting while we're doing the show.
Anyway.
We're just diundry.
Total, total cost of about five, six hundred, well, six hundred bucks, I guess, six hard drives.
Um, so, but I spent that over, like I said, the course of a couple months.
So, that's really all the money that was put into it.
Everything else was parts I had layering around, yada, yada, yada.
Now, as far as why I went with that, well, I think you might have missed an episode or something in there where I went into a little bit more detail.
Uh, first of all, it was an old Windows, it was a Windows XP installation, not Server 2003.
Like a moron, I tried to do it in XP, and I thought I had set it up as RAID 5, but XP does not do that.
So, I'm not RAID 5, you noob.
Yes, yeah, I am.
Aren't you like MCSE or something?
Or MCBB?
What is that?
What the hell?
I thought you were some type of Microsoft certification, or wrong with your...
Oh, no.
Oh, no, no, no, that's just it.
I don't know this stuff, and that's why I'm learning it.
I put, I, and that's the second part of the story, is the reason you heard Server 2003 come into the picture is because I bought it.
Because I do, I am going to be studying, or I am studying for the MCDBA, but I do not...
Ah, okay, that's what I must have been confusing.
Right, but I do not know Server 2003.
I do not know some of the server things, so that's just it.
I'm doing it, A, to learn, and B, because I do want to set up the system at my house for central storage, so...
I want to get an EIEIO myself.
Okay, is that anything like an LMNOP?
Yeah, yes, actually.
They're both formed by the same company.
Oh, okay.
Well, yeah, it makes sense, I guess.
WXYZ Incorporated.
Versioning might be difficult, but...
So, that's it for that.
And Doug says it's equal feelings for you both.
Oh, that is, see, that's such a cop-out answer.
Anyway, um, let's see here.
So, did you want to add anything to the visual basic comment?
Well, um, I mean, that was one of the points when I was going down Route 24 in Massachusetts,
just passing the Dunkin' Donuts and saying,
Dear God, what's wrong with you people?
VB.net is all object-orientated.
Now, wait a minute, now, educate me on this, because that did not happen until .NET.
No, that VB6 was, besides being a horrible implementation of a programming language,
was not object-orientated at all.
Okay, so I thought...
But .NET is, you know, all object-orientated, juicy, double-flavored goodness.
So, only with .NET did that happen.
Is that true?
So, I guess I was not clear, because I was aware of that,
and I thought I even made the point on the show to say that the whole point of the .NET architecture
is that all of the languages can now communicate,
because they're using that universal class library.
Indeed.
So, I thought I had pointed...
So, you did say at one point that, you know, VB.net was sort of object-orientated,
and I was like, well, no, not really.
It's all object-orientated.
All right, well, then that was probably...
That was me misspeaking, then.
I guess I meant to say VB6, which is the one before .NET.
Indeed.
Okay, so, okay, so there we go.
So, it was...
I misspoke.
But, I mean, at the same time, I'll admit I am not that well-versed on VB.net.
That's something else that I'm learning now.
Along with VB.net's special short-bust cousin, Visual Basic for Applications...
Oh, God.
I don't have a choice.
I'm forced to do it for work.
Don't ask, and I don't want to go into it.
It's too painful to discuss.
Seriously, man.
Just have, like, rats gnaw the flesh off your fingers.
It's the same experience, really.
I would rather.
I would rather that.
I would rather stick my head into boiling lava.
But, unfortunately, I don't get paid for sticking my head in boiling lava, so...
All right.
Anyway, I think that's it.
Oh, I did get...
Again, I got a lot of email, some other things, people giving their opinions, and some facts
about other parts of the programming show.
And I did get one clarification.
I got an anonymous email, we'll say.
I'll try to say, if I keep stumbling over my words here, who clarified that I made another
comment, and I admitted that I didn't know this.
This person's just clarifying, which I appreciate.
I stated on the show that the last ANSI C standard was sometime in the 80s.
I wasn't sure of the exact year, but I thought it was, like, 1985 or in the mid-80s.
It was actually 1989, 1989-90, and apparently there was an update in 1999, and I admit I did
not know that, a 1999 update, but, again, as this anonymous person points out, that they
were not welcomed by the developer community, so it's pretty much well and large ignored
from what I understand.
So, that's good information.
Thank you for that.
I'll take your word for it.
I don't know.
Yeah, I have to take this person's word for it, because I did not even know that a 99 update
happened, so thank you for the clarification.
89-90 was the last ANSI C standard, and still holding strong.
It's still good stuff.
Okay, we do have, we've got, we're okay on time.
We're fine on time.
Let's, um, let's do a little bit of show-and-tell, wrap up the old mailbag, and, um, I guess I'll
go first, because I'm not sure if you have any show-and-tell stuff, but, um, I had my
2600 meeting last week, which went well, um, uh, hung out with the cookie girl for a while.
That was, that's always nice.
Um, Cy Pete gave a little demonstration, a big demonstration on his, um, car PC project.
He's putting a PC in his car that is voice, uh, driven, using, um, Linux.
You know, that's really weird, because there's some, I think there was someone in my 2600
meeting doing the same thing.
Yeah, it's, um, funny that everybody hated my car hacking, but there's a lot of car hacking
projects coming out.
Granted, mine is, uh, I have technical footage of car hacking that I was doing that hasn't
made it out yet.
Don't yell at me, but Hack TV will eventually get back on track.
Um, but yeah, there's a lot of people that are, that are, uh, getting into this kind of
stuff now, so.
There's people outside my house right now holding signs that we want, we want Hack TV.
Yeah, I know, I know.
They've got a little game.
Oh, God, they're throwing eggs.
They've got a little game out in the forums.
I saw it.
They're out there trying to guess.
They've got, like, a pool going of who's going to guess when Hack TV finally drops.
Oh, man, I must have missed that.
I'm going to check that out.
Yeah.
Don't, you can't, you are, you are not eligible as a DDP member.
Oh, obviously, but it'd still be funny to look at.
Yeah, so, sorry about that, but now, actually, we've got another thing that's stepped in front
of the Hack TV project.
We've got some forums issues to take care of, so, I just keep getting diverted on all these
other things that need to be taken care of, and I just, I'm only one man.
I'm only one person.
Anyway, before I get brought down too depressed here, researching new forum software, like
I mentioned, trying to prepare for DEF CON.
Not only DEF CON, we have a DEF CON meeting, of course, each month, which comes up this
Saturday for me, but also DEF CON in, actually, August 1st, I think, officially, right?
Yes.
End of July.
Hold on, let me go pop up the website, because I wanted to check something on it anyway.
Yeah, it's end of July, beginning of August.
It's, I think, officially, August 1st, 2nd.
I think it's July 29th to August 1st.
Okay, there you go.
There you go.
I'm sorry, July 29th to 31st.
Okay.
So, trying to put together some presentation and possible talks for that, and just organizing,
you know, timing and getting together for that naked Jell-O wrestling stuff that Black
Ratchet and I were going to try to do.
Oh, was that not for the air?
No, no, we're going to sell tickets.
Oh, you're right, you're damn right we are.
That's going to be the special, you know, Hack TV Easter egg.
Is this, is it bring your own thong, or do we have to supply?
Never mind, nobody wants to.
We did share.
Oh, no, you did not say we share.
Oh, I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
So, that's it.
Oh, I had my disposable email article was published in this issue of 2600 that just came out.
Oh, damn, I forgot to pick that up today.
Yeah, and of course, everybody already knows all about that because I talked about it on
the show, and we released the Will Hack for Food, and I presented that topic in my Interzone
4 presentation a couple months ago.
So, 2600 printed the article that stemmed it all, or that at least got me going on the
whole thing.
So, that's in the current 2600.
And that's about it for me.
What do you got?
Well, I really don't have much.
I've been working on a couple of things with Yapple, and there's going to be a big announcement
soon, as soon as I, you know, kick myself and finish the last little bit, but soon you'll
be able to submit phones from the phone.
All right.
You'll be able to go to your pay phone and just dial up a number, and it'll automatically
be submitted to Yapple.
Very cool, very cool.
And I'm also, this just sort of happened today, actually.
I wrote a asterisk script that will, for those of you who don't know, there's a service called
talky.com, and they run party lines.
And there's a thing called a bulletin board, and you record messages, and it plays back
to everybody, and everyone's been wanting one to run an asterisk.
So, I decided to code it up today, and I was oddly inspired to run like a sort of code
up all the rest of the stuff that talky.com has, and emulate it myself, and make my own
little asterisk distribution where you can install it and have like, you know, party line
at home.
That's very cool.
When are we going to see that?
Yeah, I've been thinking about that.
It just sort of occurred to me today, I haven't actually tried anything on it besides the
bulletin board, but actually, Strom Carlson came up with the term, party in a box, and
underneath, you know, we'll have big letters, party in a box, and right underneath party
we'll have a line.
Hmm.
Yeah, that sounds really interesting.
I want to see that myself.
I'll give you the phone number for you.
I was going to say, I want to help test that one.
I want to be involved in the testing of that.
I think it'd be pretty cool.
You know, have anyone that they want to set up a party line, no matter where they are.
Yeah, I think that'd be very good.
The other thing that we always float around my head is have an asterisk distribution running
from a thumb drive.
Instant VoIP server.
That'd be pretty yummy.
Hmm.
Anyway, I have all these big ideas, but not enough time to implement them.
Exactly.
See, that's the hard part, man.
I just wish there were more hours in the day.
Oh, I always feel for you.
Yeah.
Oh, well.
All right.
Well, let's move on to our main topic this week.
And the main topic this week is something that I've been bitching about for a while now
anyway, so I just figured I'd make it an official topic on the show finally.
And actually, I'm not just going to go Google bashing.
I'm not going to make this just an all Google bashing show, although it may come across that
way or wind up that way.
I actually want to talk about that Google Web Accelerator tool that they just released recently.
Now, this thing, did you try this?
No, I have not.
Yeah, it's, if anybody that has not tried it yet, don't.
Don't even bother.
Don't even, seriously, don't.
Well, okay, I'll take that back.
All right.
I was going to put it over on my third, well, my second Windows box, not counting my laptop.
My other Windows box over there, I was going to put it on there just to see what it does
and how it works and kind of reverse engineer and tinker with it and stuff.
I would never have been putting it on any of my other boxes.
And luckily, I did not because I don't know if anybody's familiar with some of the fallout,
some of the stuff that's happened with this thing.
It's, well, I guess we should start explaining what it's supposed to be and what it's supposed
to do.
First of all, it's a, it's called the Web Accelerator.
And first of all, that, to me anyway, that springs to mind pictures of AOL high speed and
net zero, whatever, whatever it all is.
Personally, though, when I first heard about it, I always think those little, like, stupid
pop up ads and say, oh my God, increase your connection by, like, 50 times.
Yeah.
Like, have DSL speeds over your modem.
Yeah, right.
That's the first thing that popped into my head.
Yeah, so it's already got a poor initial visual for most people.
Uh, but what it actually is supposed to do is it's supposed to accelerate your browsing
on any connection.
Now, I still say that, you know, if you're on any kind of broadband, any little bit of
difference that some accelerator like this is going to do is going to be negligible.
It really is, I think.
Um, I mean, I agree with you on that one.
Yeah, I mean, browse, I mean, it's not going to, you're not going to, like, pre-cache large
files and whatnot.
And browsing web pages, they're so small in file size that it really just seems, I don't
get the point, I don't see the point of, I don't see how it's really going to accelerate
anything, frankly.
Except, again, for maybe for dial-up users.
And the way that they are doing it, the way that it's supposed to work is, is quite simple.
They believe that you install this thing on your, on your, on your Windows box.
I, I am assuming it's Windows only.
I didn't even, I'm sure, I, I, I'm sure it's only, it's got to be only Windows.
Oh, I assume so.
Yeah, so, what they're thinking is Google thinks that they are the greatest thing on the
earth, and that their servers have to, have to absolutely be the fastest on the entire
global interweb.
So, their line of thought is that if they know where you're going to, and what you're
looking for, and where you're surfing, they can grab those files as a proxy, and actually
it may end up being a good proxy if nothing else for this damn thing, that they can pre-cache
and grab those files for you ahead of time.
And then when you try to browse to it locally, instead of going to your ultimate destination
site, it's going to step in between and say, hey, I already grabbed it for you.
So, it's trying to do like some preemptive surfing.
It's making some assumptions and guesses on where you might be surfing next, and what sites
you frequent, et cetera, et cetera.
And their thought process being, like I said before, they think that their servers are the
fastest ones out there, so A, by having it go to their server instead of a server B, it's
going to be faster, but just by their sheer bandwidth.
That's not necessarily the case.
There are plenty of sites out there that are very much as fast, if not faster, than Google.
So, right there is already fallacy number one.
Fallacy number two is the way that this thing works is very, it's very dangerous.
It's very dangerous because, again, I'd like to see the spidering engine behind this, but
of course it's not open source.
If Google's all so great and mighty, how come they don't release open source tools, Black
Ratchet?
Tell me that.
They do.
They have a very active development program, of which I'm a member.
Development.
You have to be a member?
You can't just get it to open source without joining up and giving them your life story?
No, no.
You don't have to give a life story.
You just have to give them an email address.
And what does their development program give you?
It does not give you code for the Weld Accelerator.
It doesn't give you code for the Weld Accelerator, but it allows you to access their APIs.
The APIs to do what?
To do the search engine?
I'm a member of that, too.
Big whoop.
That thing's awesome.
Oh, please.
It's another way for you to put Google on your page.
Big whoopty freaking do.
They don't provide any code for any of the other stuff.
Well, they also, too.
They also have all their crazy little contests every year, where it's the development program,
which you can download some really good shit.
Ah, name one.
Hmm?
Name one.
They can all that development contest they have every year.
Name one of the great, good shit that they let you download.
Give me an example.
I'm not exactly sure what they download, because it's always way beyond me.
They've developed some sweet stuff with us, like, you know, a lot of their stuff from
Google Labs started off as development programs.
Yeah, well, this is in Google Labs, I think, technically, right?
This is still a beta, this Google Accelerator.
And look at the problems with it.
Now, and actually, before I get into some of the problems that this has got,
from a business standpoint, if you stand back and look at this,
it's actually a very interesting concept.
It's actually brilliant from a business standpoint.
Three cashed web pages on Google?
Brilliant!
They have millions and billions of users out there on Google.
They're it.
Google is the bomb, right?
Google is the central point of the interweb.
If they've got millions of users out there who surf the web as much as a lot of us do,
why not put them to work for you?
I mean, you've got to think from a logical standpoint,
that is a pretty good idea because spiders take time to go out there and surf the web.
And the web is so big that it takes just phenomenal amounts of power, bandwidth, and time
for the spiders to go out there and connect to all these pages
and subsequently update them and grab copies of them for the local cache.
But you know what?
If you've got millions of users who are going to download this tool and they're already surfing anyway,
why not let them go out there and let them update the caches of the sites that they visit?
And oops, hey, we'll go ahead and put those in our cache as well.
That's pretty smart, right?
That's, from a business standpoint, you're actually creating the new spider army.
Makes sense.
Right?
It's also along the lines of, you know, you're only caching what people want.
Well, and true.
Yeah, very true.
And stuff that is more popular is going to be updated more often.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, you're basically helping Google's spider engine out, becoming human spiders.
You really are.
And that's what this is doing.
And it actually sounds a lot like, I think it was called the Grub Project, G-R-U-B dot org, I think it was.
Somebody mentioned it in the forums.
I forget what it is.
Yeah, I think Bracket, I think it was, mentioned this in the forums recently.
It's Grub.
And it's some kind of, not the bootloader, by the way.
Grub the bootloader is something totally different.
It's like a distributed tool to try to cache the Internet.
And it's the same thought process.
It's everybody downloading this thing to their, either their servers, where you've got a fat pipe and can really take advantage of it,
or I think even on your high-speed desktops.
And it basically goes out and surfs.
And their thought process being that if they get enough people using this, that they can cache the entire global interweb once every day.
So, ideally, nothing should be more than 24 hours old, everything that's cached on a daily basis.
So, yeah, theoretically, that sounds great.
I'd like to see the statistics behind it.
But that's pretty much the same thing that's going on with Google here.
They're figuring that their spiders can't handle it.
Although, I don't see why they, well, anyway, if their bandwidth and servers are so great, they should be able to.
But anyway.
So, anyway, logically, from a business standpoint, it sounds good, right?
Well, the problems with this, and this is, of course, my humble opinion, my not-so-humble opinion, is that this is...
Oh, I can't wait for this.
Well, I just, I think they did, I think they dropped the ball writing it.
I think it's poorly programmed, quite frankly.
And I think some of the flaws that have been found with this, and some of the problems this has had, is stuff that even a, I mean, I know Google has got some brilliant people working there.
Don't get me wrong.
But there were some really bad oversights to this, and I can't help but think that the only reason this has happened is because it was poorly written.
They didn't prevent a lot of bad things from happening, and I think they should have foreseen this.
I don't think they planned this out very well.
If this is what that developer's annual thing provides tools like this, I'll stay really far away from it.
I'm not impressed in the least.
Like, one of the problems that this has had is that it doesn't differentiate or realize when somebody's logged into a website.
And what it's caching is actually what you see as a logged-in user.
So it's authenticated, you've authenticated, and it's actually caching the page, the resulting page.
Yet anybody else can go back and see that cached copy of the page.
That's not forward thinking.
That's not planning ahead to avoid something like that.
You've got to have a way...
At the same time, I mean, you can, I mean, if you're listening somewhere within that, you know, connection, you can see exactly what they're seeing.
I mean, you know, I think there's actually kind of a good thing, because I think they should really get a lot of websites off their ass,
and if they want something, you know, private, encrypt the damn thing.
Now, you really think that every single site on the global interweb should have to encrypt its contents to protect it from Google?
I would not.
How dare Google...
Anything you want to keep private.
I think a lot of people don't realize what exactly is happening with their connection.
Well, I'm not quite sure I'm following your logic there.
Well, for example, you know, I mean, anything that Google sees, someone, you know, sniffing along the lines can also see it.
Yes, but there's a huge...
Google doesn't actually cache the HTTPS stuff.
That's secure HTTP, for those of you who don't know.
Right.
For example, when I log into my bank account, it will not cache that page, if I have that installed.
Right, right, right.
Absolutely, and as a sign...
Do I have a Firefox plugin?
I don't know.
Oh, okay.
But as an aside, since you brought that up here, I want to highly encourage people that if you ever have an option,
for example, on your Yahoo, don't log into the HTTP.
Log into the HTTP secure.
Amen.
When you log into your Hotmail, when you log into your Gmail, always log into the secure one if it's an option.
Yes, and also make sure that if you're logging into Hotmail, Hotmail sends your password and stuff.
Secure HTTP, which is admirable, but after they authenticate you, they bounce you back down to normal HTTP, which is bad.
It's bad.
All right, well, back to this.
The simple idea that people have to encrypt their pages is way too, not big brotherish, but way too...
Somebody has way too much power if the Internet is threatened.
To have privacy on the Internet, you have to encrypt things.
I think that's taking it a little bit too far.
Now, I'm not naive, and I totally support encryption if you want privacy, but I think there is a term called a reasonable expectation of privacy.
And I think that if I've logged into a website, that is a reasonable expectation of privacy.
I've authenticated against that server.
I've made sure that it's not being rerouted somewhere else.
I have it in my safe sites list.
I've taken reasonable measures to protect my privacy.
Now, your point of, yes, anybody could sniff that, and nobody realizes what's being sent where, and that it may be plain text this, and that's fine.
That's somebody going out of their way to sniff your traffic.
Google should not have a right to do that.
It's going here and showing it, and it's just going out of its way to sniff your traffic.
Well, it's sniffing everything that you do.
It's sniffing your unencrypted traffic.
That's essentially what it's doing.
Right.
Just like everyone else could do.
Not everyone else could do that?
Hell yeah.
So my grandmother can sniff my traffic.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, right.
I think that's, uh, I think you're being a little overly, um, broad, a little overly naive on that one.
Meanwhile, Stank's Grandmother is, like, listening to the show going, Stank, you noob!
I can sniff any traffic!
I can't tell you!
I've been, man...
My grandmother has a man-in-the-middle attack on me all the time.
It's constantly sniffing...
Okay, door PGP key is noob!
So, yeah, I really don't, I really don't believe for a second that that is a good practice or a good thing to be doing.
Um, and it then subsequently causes problems.
And you know what?
There's another factor here that I just thought of.
I don't, we don't have secure.
I don't have an SSL certificate.
I don't have, I can't afford it.
I'm not paying the money for it.
There's free SSL certificates now.
Well, I've been...
And I actually do think you have an SSL certificate.
I don't think so.
If I do, I would be very happy because that's on my to-do list for WillHack for Food, the disposable email service.
That's on my wish list for that.
That's on the to-do list.
So, that is something I'm looking into and I want to find out.
And if there is such a thing, that's definitely a direction that we will go.
But not everybody has that luxury.
Not everybody has or wants that.
I think, again, the reasonable expectation of privacy here is broken by Google.
They do not disclose the information that tells a normal user, like our grandparents or parents or just non-techies,
that by using this tool, not only is it accelerating your, allegedly accelerating your downloads,
but it's also caching everything that you do and making it publicly available.
Free SSL search at www.cacert.org.
All right.
Well, give me that after the show because we'll follow up on that one.
I can use that.
But, again, most people aren't going to do that.
And nor should they have to, in my opinion.
You feel otherwise, though?
No, I mean, no, please don't get me wrong.
I will not use Google Accelerator.
I do think it's kind of odd and creepy and Big Brother-ish.
But at the same time, I mean, you know, this is just doing stuff that, you know, can be accomplished otherwise.
Yeah, well, certainly it can.
But that's kind of like saying it's okay for people to come in your house and root through your servers without a search warrant
because they could get a search warrant and do it.
So why make them go through the process?
Let's let them go ahead and come on in.
I mean, they could do it otherwise.
Yeah, but you're not doing it.
You're clicking it.
I agree.
But they're not telling you that they're doing that.
They're telling you that they're speeding you up.
Oh, I am sure that they are telling you somewhere because this has major privacy implications.
And I'm sure you're wonderful.
And here's your license agreement that you do when you install Google Web Accelerator.
There's a nice little search saying, oh, you know, we're going to code, check everything you have,
except JTTBS, and we're going to cache it on the servers, just so you know.
Yeah, and I'm sure everybody reads that.
That's a whole other topic of conversation of whether EULAs are enforceable.
And that's been analyzed and taken to court and all kinds of stuff going on.
I can't wait to see the long term.
Have they actually come up with a solution to that?
I didn't know they actually took it to court.
I don't think anyone's ever clear to that for it.
Well, yeah, I think there are several cases.
None of them have any solution.
I think they're all hung out in limbo as they try to sort this kind of stuff out.
Yeah.
So they've got to establish something before they can then pursue the cases that are outstanding about it.
So anyway, but again, it's the simple fact that now it has you logged in and people will be potentially logged in as you.
If the security is really bad, you may actually stay authenticated on that server.
Most of them will not do that.
Most of them you'll just see a cached copy.
It will not re-authenticate you or re-enter you into the thing, generally.
But it's possible.
It may very well happen.
But the scarier thing is that if it caches a copy of something that was supposed to be read-only, like, for example, in the bin rev forums, the private messages, if you're using – and I'll tell you right now, I'm giving you a warning.
I mean, we've already talked about this in the members-only.
When this came out in our members-only forum, we put out a warning that says, you know, this is dangerous and could release a lot of information.
Please don't use it.
If you're using this tool on the bin rev forums and you view your own – one of your own private messages, it gets cached.
It's on Google.
Somebody could find it and read your private messages.
How do you feel about that as a user?
And we have users that are smart, that are tech people.
And I bet you a lot of them did not realize that or did not think of that or worry or understand that that might happen.
And we've got tech users.
So it's not a situation of your grandma or somebody that doesn't know any better.
We have people, and I don't think that they appreciate the possibility that that could happen.
And I do think it could have been avoided.
I think that Google could have coded to prevent maybe not all of it but a lot of it from happening.
Well, to be quite honest with you, how are you going to choose that?
I mean, let's see what I want to say.
Like, you know, I mean, there's really no way of doing it unless you say, do you want to cache this page?
Yes.
Do you want to cache this page?
No.
Do you want to cache this page?
No.
I think there's absolutely some technical ways to do it.
I would have to sit down and look at their code, which I can't do because it's not open source.
But I absolutely think there's some things they can do to limit it.
They could take a lot of the major content management systems.
It would be a simple matter of looking at the larger ones.
Let's say Mambo, which is one of the largest ones out there now.
Let's say they take Mambo content management systems, see the way the passwords are in there.
And let's, I'm sure it's not this simple.
But let's simplify and say they just add a regex expression to parse out anything that they find that matches the Mambo authentication string.
Anything that matches the word ass word.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, as silly as that is, that really would cut back on some of it.
So one of the interesting things that occurred to me right when we started talking about this is that, you know,
because it's constantly feeding you data from other proxies that appear to be coming from said website,
like, you know, you're going to binrev.com, but you're actually getting data from, you know, cache04.google.com.
It could be very interesting for content injection.
Well, it's also going to totally screw up your statistics, any of your web stats.
Oh, true.
I didn't even think of that.
Are going to be just absolutely reamed.
I mean, you're going to, it's going to be worthless.
All your hits are going to be Google.
All your bases.
I mean, it would be perfect for, like, you know, a man in the middle attack.
Like, if you want to see a little spooky.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
It's dangerous.
It's scary.
It's not good.
And this is another, I didn't think of this one.
I read about this one.
The other thing it does is it tries to spider.
It's not only caching the pages that you go to frequently.
If you go to, let's say, binrev.com, for example, it tries to look at all of the links like a real spider, a real robot search engine, a real spider engine would do, and follow all the links on that page and pre-cache them.
If you go to binrev.com, it's going to go to slash radio and slash hack TV and slash foreign grab as much as it can.
And, again, I don't know how deep it goes without seeing their code, which, once again, I remind everyone, they don't let us see.
Are they not open source?
Honestly, I don't know.
Maybe they are, and I don't know any better, and I'm talking out of my ass.
I'm making an assumption, and I'll admit that.
I have noticed from the past eight times you mentioned it.
Yeah, I'll be honest.
I do not know because I didn't download it, but I absolutely am confident that it's not.
Sight unseen.
I'm pretty confident that they're not going to release that source code.
So, what's happening, because it's following all these links, something else that I saw reported is it's blindly spidering out.
And, again, you don't know how far.
Maybe it's just one level, two levels, who knows what.
Does it spider on to another site that's linked from site A to site B and causing hits for that?
I mean, it's a lot of damage to statistics programs that can happen in measuring bandwidth.
What about click-throughs on banner ads?
You've just screwed up single-handedly.
Google just fucksword the entire click-based advertising system on the Internet.
It's fucked.
You say, look, it's a bad thing.
Well, it's true, actually.
You're right.
Or one for Google.
All right.
Actually, you know what?
I'm kind of liking this now that I think about it.
But, no, because it spiders like that stupidly and doesn't know where it's going,
some of the reports I saw was it was spidering through to the links, for example, that say delete my account.
It's not smart enough to eliminate things like that,
just like it's not smart enough to eliminate authentication pages and passwords and users being logged in and things like that.
It's actually caching the page.
It's not realizing that it's clicking on a delete my account button or a change my password or recover my password, send it to me,
and really causing havoc on people with some sites.
And what about creating new accounts?
Is it going to hit willhackforfood, for example, willhackforfood.biz, and get caught in an infinite loop where it keeps clicking on create new account?
That account does not exist.
Create new account.
I really don't think so.
I don't think so in that case because I know how it's designed, but the potential exists for things like that to happen.
Theoretically, yes.
But I really hope that Google has at least one person with an IQ above 100 that would realize that it's an infinite loop and not do that.
Well, I hope so, but you never know.
You know what?
Yes, it could happen.
Very true.
I bet you if we put our minds to it.
Now, frankly, I don't care enough to do this, but if a listener wanted to do this,
I really am confident that you could capture Google in an infinite loop.
You could set up a trap for the Google Spider and catch them in your web.
I think you could catch them in an infinite loop.
I do think if you watched it and figured out how it worked, I think you could entrap it.
Yep, that's what I'm saying.
I will give somebody a dollar if they do that.
I'll double it.
I'm poor.
I'll double it.
I'll give you another dollar.
There you go.
Two dollars right on the table.
Anyway, I want to split $5, $2.50 each.
Oh, wait a minute.
Now, that's pushing it.
Oh, come on.
How about a free copy of the magazine?
How about that?
That's $5 value.
All right, that works.
All right, that'll work.
That means I don't have to put up any money.
Okay.
And that's a lot of work for a $5 magazine, quite frankly.
All right, well, I mean, that's pretty much it.
I'm not going to go into a rant on Google being evil.
I've mentioned it in the forums.
And I really, let me clarify.
I don't think Google is evil yet.
I just think that they're starting to move in that direction.
And Google is big.
Google is very, very big player on the internet right now.
I had the same rant about Microsoft back on, like, episode, I don't know, 70 or something about Microsoft Passport.
And it's not the individual things that are dangerous.
It's not just Hotmail that's dangerous.
It's not just TechNet.
It's not just the support.
It's not – it's all of the Passport things tied together.
And this is the same thing with Google.
I don't know if you've – you've probably noticed this.
I don't know if some of the listeners have noticed this, but if you auto log into Gmail, notice that you've also auto logged into Google when you go there.
In the upper right-hand corner, like that Google – that thing that says, lets you see your most recent searches, your search history tool that they added.
And I talked about what a red herring that is.
To be honest, I've never noticed that because I've hardly logged into my Gmail account.
And that's what I'm saying.
You don't have to log into the Gmail account.
If you just go to Google.com and you have your Gmail set to auto log in or you are logged into it earlier in the session and it's still alive, you are logged into Google.com.
They have backward incorporated that in there.
So all of the sites that your searches that you do are showing up in your search history, which is another tool that they added recently.
Which, again, that was a red herring.
You make you think that you're able to go in there and delete and save and stop what they're collecting on you because they're offering it to you.
No, they're collecting a lot more behind the scenes.
They're just offering this up as a peace offering to fool people.
And it's not fooling me.
I know they're still logging everything with IP address and everything else they have on me.
Oh, Stank, I forgot to tell you.
You left your tinfoil hat at Doug's house.
Yeah, right?
No, I'm wearing it right now.
Oh, okay.
I have it on my head.
No, this is, I don't care what you say.
This is a valid conspiracy theory.
Yes, I'll admit it's a conspiracy theory.
And I'm not, like, going crazy with it or anything, but I absolutely believe that it is a dangerous situation, potentially very dangerous for privacy of everybody.
They have already made steps.
A, the potential is there because the same as Microsoft.
You've got mail accounts with tons of people and their personal information and their personal emails.
You've got the history of what they're searching for.
You've got all of the things they've downloaded.
You've got this web accelerator so you see what sites they frequent.
All of these tools collecting a little bit of different information.
Well, when I saw recently that I was logged into Google and I did not have, there is no Google login screen.
You cannot log into Google exactly, but you can now.
If you look up there, you can sign into Google, which will sign you into all of the Google services, and it combines all that together.
So the moment it does that, it now knows that this Gmail account and your other Gmail account and the other one, because we know we all have four or five Gmail accounts, let's be honest.
They know that they're all coming from you, and they also know that all the searches you've done, and they're combining it together.
And they've got a profile on every single one of us now.
They're building them.
So take it for what it's worth.
I mean, I'm just pointing out the facts.
I mean, you can, I'm not going to say what the level of severity is, but I'm choosing to always stay logged out of Google.
I'm choosing to be very careful with what I search for.
I don't use Google exclusively.
I use proxy servers whenever necessary.
And that's really the moral of my whole conspiracy theory is to stop trusting Google so much because they are doing some things that are questionable right now.
They are turning evil.
So, is it the early stages?
Yes, it probably is.
Maybe they'll pull out of it.
Maybe they'll save it at the last minute.
But right now, I don't like what I'm saying, and I'm taking steps to protect myself, and I recommend that everybody listening do the same thing.
You go do that.
And, all right, I guess that's it.
My jury is still out.
I'll, yeah, my jury is still out, but I'm not positive.
I'm not thinking very positive about it, quite frankly.
I'm...
Always be positive.
Think happy about it.
I usually do, but in this case, I've seen too many things that I don't like in this particular case, so I'm going to cover my ass.
I'm just going to be careful.
There's nothing wrong with being careful.
Within reason.
Within limits.
True, true.
I'm not going to unplug my computer and go move out to, like, Montana or something and live underground.
I'm not all, you know...
That's not going to be a Ted Kuznke?
No, nothing like that.
I'm just saying be careful.
There's another reference people might not get.
Oh, come on.
Everybody knows.
Yeah, okay.
We're not going there.
All right.
And, again, also, just to clarify this, I'm not singling out Google.
Microsoft is the same way.
Yahoo also has a bunch of services, and they're all tied together.
The only thing is, at least they've kind of...
They've never denied it.
They've never been misleading.
They've never tried to fool people about, we're not evil.
We're fluffy and lovable.
They've never tried to fool people.
They've always been up front.
We know they're a business.
You know where you stand.
They know where you're tracking.
You know the advertising.
You know where you stand with them.
You know that Microsoft is...
I'm still waiting for my Google plush plushie.
Yeah, right?
Well, they probably have a convention, a furry convention.
Never mind.
Let's not go there.
Oh, God.
I don't even want to know.
And speaking of Google, I'll close with this little note here,
that Google actually increased their email storage to one gigabyte.
I don't know if that's happened for everybody.
We talked about how they seem to...
Wait a minute.
I don't think you said that right.
Who increased their storage?
Yahoo increased their email storage to one gigabyte.
I think you said Google the first time.
Oh, I did?
I may be mistaken.
Oh, I said they matched Google.
I don't know.
Maybe I...
Oh, give me back a call.
Yeah, maybe I misspoke.
Yahoo increased their email storage to one gigabyte,
now competing with Google.
Of course, Google's at two plus and counting,
and I think it becomes a point where you start to say,
you know what?
It's irrelevant how much space they give you.
They're both giving you a shitload of space for your email.
That's all you need to know.
So it's no longer a selling point.
It becomes a mute thing.
If your only reason for using Gmail before was because they gave you a lot of space,
guess what?
They're all giving you a lot of space now.
That is no longer a business advantage or a something that gives...
Gmail's just so much fun to save in Yahoo Mail.
Yeah, I don't like...
I like having...
I like the old folder metaphor.
I don't like that labeling things and starring and searching for my email.
I like having things in folders where I can jump to a folder and browse easily and quickly.
I don't like that...
Gmail's never worked for me, quite honestly.
I've never really liked that style, but...
I run my own mail server.
That's what I do.
Well, me too, but you know.
For the public stuff, yeah.
Got to use the Yahoo sometime.
All right, well, that's it.
Let's wrap up the...
Unless...
This is your last shot.
You got anything else about Google you want to...
Gmail?
No, I think you did a good job.
Thank you.
I enjoyed playing double that kit, though.
Even though you don't agree with a lot of it, which is...
That's fine.
A lot of people don't like...
I don't agree with a lot of it, but you do bring up valid points.
Well, thank you very much.
I try.
Side of the week.
I'm going to give this to you.
You had a side of the week this week.
Okay, well, we tiny URL'd this.
Because after a couple of times, I tried to spell it the stank, and his tiny little
mind couldn't comprehend it.
So fire up your tinyurl.com and go to 3, E as in Echo, 9, T as in Tango, and X as in
X-Ray.
And when you see...
It's a really spiffy site about directional antennas and mini-USB Wi-Fi adapters, and it
looks very cool, and I really want to research it.
Someone posted this on the Forbes.
Hold on.
Let me go give credit to where credit is due.
All right.
And while you do that, I'm going to let everybody know.
Once you go to that tinyurl, look at the name of the resulting site up there, and tell
me how difficult that would have been to pronounce on the air, to spell out on the air.
Thank goodness for a tiny URL.
Yes.
It was posted into the forum by a user named Planktonius.
I believe that's how you pronounce it.
All right.
Yep.
Planktonus?
I don't know.
Planktonitis?
I don't know.
Planktonitis.
I don't know.
That could be it.
Planktonius.
I like Planktonius.
He's been around for a while, I think.
I'm very roving.
He's been around for a little while, I think.
Yes, he has.
So thank you for the side of the week.
Plankton, O-N-N-N-N-N-A-M-N-N-L-A-M-N-N-N-M-I-S.
E-I-I-O.
And, um, Shouts.
You want to start Shouts?
Oh, I'll go send Shouts to Doug.
I'll send Shouts at Strom Carlson.
And we have people in the IRC channel.
We have Niptacular, Bubster.
Oh, man.
And Sard.
Oh, yes.
And also, we've got a Sea of Bins or something.
Okay.
I don't know.
Cinnabon.
S-T-I-A-B-A-N.
Maybe it's like C-I-A-B-A-N.
Hmm.
Well, Cinnabon sounds good to me.
Now I'm hungry.
Cinnabon.
All right.
Well, mine are much shorter and simpler.
I give shouts out this week to Acidus, to ZeroDB, and to Lucky225.
Shouts to them.
What a noob.
Yeah, LuckyNoobNoob5.
Actually, Lucky's taking care of business these days.
He's got some things occupying his time right now, so good luck to him.
Yep, indeed, indeed.
Shout out to him.
And email us, radio at binrev.com or...
At blackratchet at blackratchet.org.
Org.
Org, whatever.
Orgy.
Blackratchet at blackratchet.org.
And tell him, send him lots and lots of mail telling him that it's pronounced Org
and that it stands for organization, not orgy.
Like, orge.
As of 11 p.m. on Tuesday night, my email box better be freaking full for you people.
Oh, I hope they crash your server.
That would be funny.
That would be pretty funny, wouldn't it?
I'll also send out shouts to my cat Ziggy, because he just showed up.
Um, yeah, he's not really going to be able to...
Anyway, closing music this week is from someone called Richard Marchand.
It's a track called Hipsomnia, and I'll give shouts to Cloaked Dagger, who emailed me this
link for this person.
So we're going to close out with the music recommended by Cloaked Dagger.
And, Blackratchet, thank you for you doing the show.
We made it through without...
A pleasure, as always.
The power did not drop out on us.
The power's been...
I'm surprised, to be honest with you.
Watch it go out right now, right while we're in the middle of talking, and we won't have
time to tell everyone that we'll see them next week.
Same hack time.
Oh, God, the power went out.
Same hack channel.
Ha, ha.
Take go, take go, take go, take go, take go, take go, take go, take go, take go, take go.
I don't want trigger both the fuck and say go.
Take it go, take go, take go, take go, take go, take go.
Take it go, s đấy.
Oh, God, the power...
Take it back, take it back, take it back.
Take it back...
Take it away...
Take it back...
Right on, who's this?
It's like, it's like.
It's like.
It's like, it's like.