This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you in a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll school you on burning dreamcats
You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Cause CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the cruisers
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAMs, SIFs, SIFs
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
Welcome back to Binary Revolution Radio
You are listening to episode 99
That is right, number 99
One episode away from number 100
Kind of a milestone I guess
So 100 will be somewhat of a special episode
So tune in for that
But right now, today is June 7th, 2005
Once again episode 99
I am Stank Dog
A lot of people will be glad to hear
My co-host, returning co-host this week
Somebody that's been
Was one of the more popular hosts that we've ever had
And one of the nicer people I've ever met
And I love getting you on the show
Ilanka is back on the show with us this week
Hi, I'm glad to be back
Thank you for inviting me again
I'm so glad we could fit it in
Because I know you've got an enormously busy schedule right now
We'll probably touch on that a little bit later on our show and tell
Yeah, it was pretty much insane
Yeah, let's do a little housekeeping up front
And actually, you can go ahead and start talking about that now
Because you were telling me
That you're getting a lot of traffic on your site lately
Why is that?
The milestone that I just hit
Is that I've been tracking hits to the site
Both in terms of unique visitors and page views
And my, I call it the odometer
Just rolled over to seven digits over the last week
So over one million page views
And that's been in about the last two to three years
The vast majority of the traffic is from the book Da Vinci Code
Which is now the biggest selling adult book in the world
From what I was hearing
I say adult book because I think the Harry Potter books have got it beat
But in the artwork of the book Da Vinci Code
There are puzzles hidden in the artwork of the book jacket
And two of those puzzles refer to cryptos
The sculpture at the center of CIA headquarters
And if you go to Google and type in cryptos
My site is the one that pops up
And if you go to Dan Brown, the author's site
DanBrown.com
And you kind of look around there
He's got some trivia questions
And some of those trivia questions are related to cryptos
So I'm just getting tons and tons
Just hundreds and sometimes over a thousand hits
A day of people researching the link between cryptos
And the Da Vinci Code
And do you notice then over time
Not only did you break a milestone
But do you notice more sustained hits
I mean is there an actual sustained interest
I mean do you find more and more people getting involved
And interested in the topic now since
Not only the Da Vinci Code
But just in general
Do you see the numbers rising
As people find out more and more about cryptos
Absolutely
I love watching the way the traffic kind of surges
And then dies away
Like if there's a newspaper article
Like two weeks ago
Or a week and a half ago
I was in Wall Street Journal
Or cryptos was in Wall Street Journal
And there was a mention of me
And there wasn't even a link on the Wall Street website
But my traffic tripled
And it must have been because of the article
And there's a CNN thing on cryptos
That's coming up over the next week or so
And I expect that's going to give a big spike as well
But when there's no articles at all
The baseline traffic is
I'm getting about 500 to 600 unique visitors per day
That are coming in
And a lot of them are researching the trivia contest
But I'm also getting hundreds
Hundreds and hundreds per day
That are just going to Google
And just typing cryptos
And just researching it
Sometimes I'll get spikes and surges
Like the blogosphere is great
Someone will link to me from somewhere
And then all of their friends
That kind of read that section of the blogosphere
Will start linking to me
The place that's most noticeable
Is another page on my site
Which is on Famous Unsolved Codes
And that's like a blogosphere darling
And I'll be checking my web traffic
And all of a sudden things are just doubling
Or tripling
And it won't be from an article anywhere
It'll just be because it's gotten really hot
In some section of the blogosphere
And that'll go on for a few days
And it'll kind of die off
And then the most fun
Is when I start getting a bunch of links in
From some language that I don't even understand
Right
Like Japanese
There'll be kind of
There was a translation of a Wired article
That came out in January
But every so often
That'll get hot again in Japan
And over the last couple weeks
I got a whole bunch of links from Dutch sites
Because it was going through the blogosphere in Holland
And then there was this link on a site
I could not understand the language on the site
I mean I looked at it
And I know a lot of languages
I did not recognize this language
And it looked to me like
It was like a Star Wars fan site
And they were all speaking an Ewok
Or something
But I finally figured out
It was from Indonesia
And it was weird
Just seeing this language
I didn't understand
And then it would say Ilanka
And then it would say Kriptos
And then it would say Code
But that was a lot of fun
To figure that out
Yeah I know exactly what you mean
I get the same thing
I'll see all this
What to me of course is Jiravarishan
But I'll see the word Stankdog
And then later on
I'll see Binary Revolution
Or Hack TV
Or you know
It's like you know what
They're talking about
But you just don't know
If they're saying
I hate Stankdog
And his Hack TV
Or I love Stankdog
And it's great
You know
I don't know how
The context of it unfortunately
But yeah I see those things
In my office
We had reviews
Of our different games
And articles
That were hanging on the wall
And there was one review
That was all in Japanese
And we really had no idea
What it said
And so whenever I gave a tour
Of the office
I would point to this review
In Japanese saying
We don't know what it says
So I'm just going to tell you
It's a rave review
And we're going to move
Right along here
Exactly
And I don't
I'm not sure if we said it out right
I think it probably is inferred
That your site of course
Is ilonka.com
E-L-O-N-K-A
Dot com
Yes exactly
Not sure if we said that
But we'll go ahead
And get that out there
And let's see
What else did I have
In housekeeping
Oh
I wanted to talk about
Freak Factor
Which is one of our other shows
We just started recently
It's kind of an experimental show
That we created
It's
We're kind of
The catch phrase
If you will
Is the
The world's first
Hacking
Freaking
Reality radio show
And
We had
Episode 6
Was just
This past Saturday
It's every Saturday night
For a couple hours
And we had a few
Technical difficulties
We've moved over
To a new server
We're in the process
Of moving over
To a new server
And we were able
To get it up and running
We still had a show
But we kind of got
Started a little bit late
Because of some
Technical difficulties
With that server move
And
Basically some name changes
And so
We
Made the common mistake
Of programmers
And
Changing names
And
Locations
And paths
Of files
At the same time
As doing a server move
Instead of splitting them up
So there was a couple
Little oversights
That were
Troublesome to find
But easy to fix
Once we got them
I think
Of course I really
Shouldn't say we
Too much
A lot of that
Was not theory
Fixing all this
As usual
Let's see
So
The show itself
Did finally go on
And we had some
New
Hosts assigned
To this one
The show is very
Chaotic sometimes
When you have a bunch
Of people talking
At the same time
And
It makes for a
Very difficult
Show
Very difficult
To understand
It's not really
Enjoyable
Because people
Talk over each
Other
And one of the
Reasons I firmly
Stick with a
Two person
Hosting situation
On BinRev Radio
Because it's a little
Bit more
Formal I guess
You will
Not
Well not that
Formal actually
But a little bit
More organized
I guess is a
Better word
So some people
Got a first hand
Lesson this time
On exactly how
Difficult it is
To run a show
That is so chaotic
And just so
Bizarre like that
Yeah it's a reality
Show
And there's going
To be stuff
That you don't
Expect
And that's great
That's fun
To an extent
But we still
Want to keep
The content
Fun
We still want
To keep it
Fun and interesting
For the listeners
As well as
The participants
So we do have
Some measures of
Control in there
To maintain that
Fun
Some ways to
Mute people
Kick and ban
People
We have accounts
Set up and
Things like that
So a lot
Of people
Kind of
Realize now
Exactly what
It takes to
Pull something
Like this off
And hopefully
Have a little
Bit of appreciation
For it
Now we have
We are also
I think people
Are also starting
To understand
That the premise
Of the show
Is that there
Is no premise
To the show
It's like that
Show about nothing
Thing
It really is
There's no premise
To the show
It's a reality
Radio show
And what I mean
When I say that
We're not voting
People off
Yet
That's some
Fun stuff
We're going
To do
It's going
To be something
Different each
Week
I don't want
People to get
Into a pattern
Where they're
Doing the same
Thing every week
Like calling
Walmart or
Some silly
Thing like that
It's going
To be different
Every week
We're going
To spring
Surprises on
People
People are
Going to
Spring surprises
On us
It's going
To be totally
You know
Who knows
What it's
Going to be
Week after
Week
And that's
One of the
Draws that I
Hope that brings
People back
Listening to see
What's going
To happen next
What's going
To go on
Next
That's what
I mean by
Reality
This is all
Experimental
We're just
Going to mix
It up
With whatever
We feel like
Doing
You know
We may just
Turn it over
To Alanka
To do a
Two hour
Solo
Sometime
It could be
Anything
I mean
Really
I don't think
That one's
Going to happen
But you know
It could
We may talk
Her into that
At DEF CON
Maybe next
Year sometime
It almost
Came to that
Last week
When we
Weren't sure
If we were
Going to
Get the
Server up
I went
On and
Started
Blabbing
Trying to
Stall
While we
Continued
Working
So it
Might have
Ended up
Being me
Talking for
Two hours
But nobody
Wants that
Really
Let's be
Honest
So yeah
People are
Finally
Starting to
Get the
Gist of it
In the
Beginning
Everybody
Was like
What is
The show
About
We don't
Get it
What's
The format
Who are
The hosts
When is
No
None of
That is
Set
It's all
Completely
Wide open
Different
Every week
Some shows
Are good
Some shows
Are bad
Some shows
Are ugly
Some are
Broken
Like last
Week
Some are
Chaotic
Like the
First couple
Episodes
They're funny
They're boring
Crazy
Offensive
Could be
Any of
Those things
But once
In a while
Once in a while
It's going to be
One of the
Coolest things
You've ever
Heard on the
Radio
And that's
What makes
It worthwhile
You know
It's always
Going to be
Something different
And hopefully
That mixing
Up of different
Things will
Keep it fresh
And different
Every week
So that's
Really the
Whole true
Nature of
The show
And I
Think it's
Kind of a
Difficult concept
To grasp
Actually that
It's there
Is no
Premise or
There is no
Format
So I think
People are
Finally
Starting to
Get that
The only
Thing that
You're going
To count
On
You know
What do
They say
The old
Saying about
The only
Thing
Constant is
Change
That's pretty
Much what
Freak
Factor is
I mean
The only
Thing you
Can count
On
That is
Always
Going to
Be
Different
The only
Thing you
Can count
On is
That you
Can't
Count
On it
I guess
To put
It in
Poorer
Terms
I guess
So that's
That's what
Makes it the
Reality show
That it is
That's what
We're shooting
For and that's
What makes it
Fun to me
So hopefully
Other people
Feel the same
Way
So last
Week
Had some
Technical
Problems
And we
Ended up
Winging it
Ended up
I think it
Ended up
Being like
Almost a
Three hour
Show
Because I
Let it
Keep running
Because people
Were still
Having fun
With it
So hopefully
It's doing
Pretty well
I mean
A lot of
People are
Tuning into
It
A lot
Of people
Are downloading
It
So some
People hopefully
Are enjoying
It
So that's
All the
Housekeeping
I have
Maybe we
Should do
Some
Email
Okay
Now the
Mailbag
Is a
Little low
This week
Two weeks
In a row
Actually
Where we
Had less
Email than
Usual
So I
Guess
We're not
Piquing people's
Interest enough
So this
Episode I'm
Certain
Will definitely
Change that
But before
We get into
Our main
Topics
And well
We've kind
Of got two
Actually I guess
Our main topic
Is going to be
Identity theft
Because someone
On the show
Who's not
Named Stank
Dog
Has been having
Some problems
Lately
And we wanted
To talk about
You found out
A lot of
Information about
That process
So that's
Going to be
Like our main
Topic
But we
Also want to
Do some
Cryptos
Updates
Because I
Am also
Very interested
In this
And getting
Pulled into
It
And we'll
Talk about
Both of
Those things
And I
Want to
Leave plenty
Of time
For them
So let's
Get these
Two emails
Out of the
Way
And then move
On
Our first
Email
Comes
From
Sequel
Who's
Probably
Going to
Yell
To yell
At me
For mispronouncing
That
Sequel
I think
It's
Sequel
Alright
Email me
And yell
At me
That's
Fine
Who says
Hello
Stankdog
And Ilanka
Just wanted
To comment
On something
That might
Not have
Been made
Too clear
To some
In your
Last episode
You asked
Wintermute
If you had
To retest
When your
Ham license
Expires
Or even
If they
Expire
And he
Said yes
Every ten
Years
Well this
Made it
Seem like
At the
End of
Ten years
You had
To test
All over
Again
But you
Do not
Your
License
Is good
For ten
Years
But as
Long as
You submit
Your renewal
Forms
Before your
License
Expires
Then you
Do not
Have to
Test again
Just wanted
To clear
That up
In case
There was
Any confusion
For any
Of the
Listeners
Who might
Be thinking
About becoming
A ham
Oh he
Also says
Good job
On the radio
Show and
Thank you
For the
Thank you
For the
Copy of
Terror Cell
I really
Enjoyed
Reading it
Alright well
I'm glad you
Like Terror Cell
And for those
Of you who
Don't know
What we're
Referring to
There many
Episodes back
I gosh
I probably
If I was a
Good host
I would have
Looked the
Number up
Beforehand
But I'm
Not so I
Didn't
But many
Episodes ago
We had
Some free
Copies of
A new
Novel
That was
Coming out
Called Terror
Cell
Where
It's kind
Of a
Suspense
Thriller
Type
I guess
Tom Clancy
I'm not sure
If he's
Comfortable
Being compared
To that
But
Style of
Book
Where the
Main character
Was a
Computer
Hacker
Or a
Computer
Expert
If you
Will
Security
Expert
So
He had
Given us
A couple
Copies
To hand
Out on
The show
And I'm
Glad you
Actually
Enjoyed
Your copy
So
I thought
It was
Very cool
Myself
And I
Looked
And I
Still don't
Have any
News about
Whether it's
Been published
Yet
We had
Preview
Copies
We had
Advanced
Copies
Signed by
The author
Just for
The show
And I
Haven't
Heard
Anything
About it
Being published
Yet
So
I will
Announce it
On the
Show
If and
When it
Ever
Does get
Published
So that
People can
Go check
That out
And
Thanks for
Clarifying
The license
Yeah
I
Don't know
The answer
To it
Quite
Honestly
So when I
Asked
Mute
The question
If it
Wasn't
Clear
I'm glad
You
You pointed
That out
That after
Ten years
Let's see
You submit
Your renewal
Forms
Before it
Expires
You do
Not have
To test
Again
So yes
Clarify
Point
Clarified
Thank you
Very much
For that
And our
Second and
Last email
Of the show
I don't think
I've ever
Had that
Before
Two emails
In the show
This email
Is from
Tommy
Who says
Hi
Stank
The
Ranter
Dog
Is it
A new
Item
Or do you
Just start
A new
Rant
Every show
Well I'll
Interrupt the
Email here
To answer
That
No that's
Just coincidence
I just had
A couple
Things lately
That made
Me mad
And I got
Off my
Chest early
That's all
So no
That's not
A new
Segment
Or anything
Like that
It's just
Me
Being
Me
So let's
See
The gist
Was that
You didn't
Like privacy
Issue
Regarding
Google
Let me
Make it
Clear
That I
Don't
Defend
Google
But I
Don't
See how
It is
Different
From
For example
A credit
Card company
They know
All your
Buying
Habits
Which fall
Buying
Habits
Which falls
In the
Same category
As knowing
All your
Email
At least
For me
Refer
He's referring
To gmail
I assume
Sorry I got
Sidetracked
The point
Is that we
Trust
We trust
A lot
Of
Companies
With
A lot
Of
Our
Personal
Data
Daily
Does
That make
Google
Evil
No
They even
Make it
Clear
That it
Is
Happening
Although
I agree
Trust us
We are
Not
Evil
Doesn't
Cut it
For me
I assume
That a
Bank
Or whatever
Has to
Obey
A law
Regarding
Your
Privacy
And
Data
I don't
See how
That is
Different
For
Google
So
Basically
You can
Only judge
A company
By
Its
Actions
And
Not
By
What
It
Says
Just
As
You
Do
With
People
And
I guess
With
Google
A lot
Of
The
Focus
Is
On
The
Benefit
For
The
End
User
And
The
Other
Tip
Of
The
Scale
Is
Just
In
The
Dark
Also
I
Think
Google
Knows
That
If
One
Intentional
Screw
Up
Regarding
Privacy
Happens
That
Their
Empire
Will
Fall
One
Of
The
Major
Reasons
Microsoft
Passport
Plan
Failed
Good
Plan
Good
Intentions
Bad
Track
Record
Alright
Actually
There's
A couple
Good
Points
In
Here
I
Thought
I
Had
Mentioned
Them
But
It's
Always
Again
Clarification
If
Something
Was
A
Little
Confusing
The
Question
How
Does
That
Make
Google
Any
Different
Are
They
Any
Different
Than
The
Credit
Card
Company
Or
Whatever
No
It
Doesn't
Make
Them
Any
Different
And
You
Just
Said
In
Your
Email
That
You
Think
That
It's
Not
Good
The
Credit
Different
That's
Pretty
Much
All
I've
Really
Been
Saying
Google
Somehow
And
I
Don't
Know
About
Alonka
I
Don't
Know
If
You
The
Circles
Of
People
I
Don't
Know
About
You
But
For
Some
Reason
The
Hacker
Community
And
Community
At
Large
Embraces
Google
I
Mean
They
Love
Google
Right
I
Like
Google
But
They're
Not
Infallible
Right
And
I'm
Worried
That
There's
A
Little
Bit
Too
Much
Trust
In
Google
In
Google
We
Trust
Is
Going
To
Be
On
Our
Currency
Soon
It
Seems
Like
There
Well
It's
Definitely
Going
To
Change
I
Mean
I
I've
Noticed
That
There's
A
Theme
In
The
Hacker
Scene
Which
Is
It's
Always
Kind
Of
Rooting
For
The
Underdog
And
Then
When
Something
Starts
Getting
Really
Big
Then
It
Starts
Becoming
Evil
So
Whether
It
Was
I
Mean
It
Could
Be
Matter
Of
Time
Until
More
Of
The
Suspicion
Comes
In
And
It
May
Not
Have
Anything
To
Do
With
What
A
Particular
Company
Is
Doing
But
Just
That
They
Get
So
Large
And
People
Just
Automatically
Start
Becoming
Suspicious
That
Is
Absolutely
True
As
Well
Google
Has
Somehow
Sidestepped
That
Until
Fairly
Recently
And
Actually
I
Think
The
Reason
That
A
Few
People
Myself
Included
Have
Turned
A
Little
On
Be
Careful
With
What
You
Give
Google
Some
Of
The
Things
That
They
Have
Done
Lately
You
Know
They
Are
Scanning
Through
Gmail
To
Place
Ads
On
There
Well
You
Know
What
Are
We
Taking
Them
At
Their
Word
And
Trusting
Them
That
There's
No
Humans
Reading
Our
Email
I
Don't
Really
Like
To
Take
People
At
Their
Word
Especially
A
Large
Corporation
Of
Any
Kind
I
Wish
There
Was
Some
Kind
Way
That
They
Could
Prove
To
Me
Or
Give
Me
Some
Kind
Of
Evidence
Or
Some
Auditing
Company
That
Will
Confirm
Or
Deny
This
Kind
Of
Stuff
And
That's
Just
One
Silly
Example
My
Other
Problems
My
Bigger
Problems
Is
The
Way
That
They're
Combining
Everything
You
Know
I
Really
The
Biggest
Thing
I've
Had
A
Problem
With
So
Far
Is
When
I
Log
In
To
Gmail
And
Then
Want
Them
To
Do
That
They're
A
Search
Engine
They're
Not
Supposed
To
Be
Tracking
Me
Like
Big
Brother
So
If
I've
Logged
Into
Google
And
You
Don't
Log
Out
If
Any
Of
You
Log
In
To
Google
And
Do
Not
Log
Out
You
Will
Stay
Logged
In
If
You
Look
In
The
Google.com
Page
In
The
Log
Button
Because
It
Keeps
You
Logged
In
So
Gmail
Is
No
Eyes
Open
And
Be
Smart
About
It
That's
All
I
Still
Use
Google
And
I
Still
Use
Gmail
I
Think
It's
A
Valid
Concern
And
The
More
Powerful
That
Google
Becomes
The
More
Important
It
Is
That
They
Use
That
Power
Responsibly
But
Even
Sometimes
If
They
Don't
Intend
To
Cause
Damage
They
Can
I
Was
Reading
Some
Story
At
One
Point
Where
Google
Made
Some
Small
Change
To
It
Of
Course
Changed
Which
Sites
Were
Going
To
Show
Up
First
On
Any
Kind
Of
A
Particular
Search
Term
Hit
And
All
Of
These
Companies
That
Were
Relying
On
Google
Hits
For
Their
Business
Suddenly
Their
Business
Dropped
Through
No
Fault
Of
Their
Own
It
Was
Because
Of
This
Tiny
Change
That
Google
Made
In
Their
Algorithm
And
The
More
Powerful
They
Become
The
More
Damage
They
Can
Cause
That
If
Google
Disappeared
Or
Especially
Google
News
Suddenly
Vanished
I
Feel
A
Huge
Loss
In
My
Life
I
Gotten
Very
Dependent
On
It
Yeah
It
People
Really
Shouldn't
Be
That
Dependent
On
Google
Or
Any
One
Site
If
That
Lowers
Your
Ranking
Because
They
Make
That
Algorithm
Change
You
Got
To
Be
Able
To
Adapt
You
Can't
Depend
On
Google
Completely
So
That
That's
A
Dangerous
Tightrope
To
Walk
There
But
Yeah
Absolutely
When
You
Get
To
That
Size
And
When
You
Are
You
Know
When
You're
A
Verb
You
Know
You're
Not
Searching
Anymore
I
Consistently
I
Don't
If
People
Have
Ever
Noticed
This
On
The
Show
But
I
Consistently
Say
Go
Search
For
It
I
Don't
Say
Google
For
It
Search
For
You
There's
A
Lot
Of
Other
Great
Search
Engines
Out
There
That
Still
Work
Perfectly
Fine
But
When
You
Become
A
Verb
When
People
Say
Google
It
Just
Google
It
Go
Google
It
I
Was
Googling
For
It
I
Googled
It
That's
Really
Big
When
I
Check
My
Web
Logs
Like
I
Said
I've
Been
Tracking
It
The
Vast
Majority
Of
Search
It
It's
Google
Especially
For
The
International
Market
Because
Google
dot
PA
Or
Google
dot
PT
Or
Whatever
The
Different
Suffixes
Are
And
All
These
Other
Countries
That
Are
Getting
Online
Are
Using
The
Google
Search
Engine
Which
I
See
Overall
As
A
Good
Thing
Google
Is
Providing
A
Service
Here
In
The
States
When
We're
Using
English
As
Our
Primary
Language
There's
Definitely
Other
Choices
But
For
Some
Of
These
Other
Countries
Where
They
Don't
Have
A
Of
Choices
I
Think
Google
Whatever
But
You
Know
There
Are
Some
Issues
With
China
And
The
Great
Firewall
Of
China
And
What
They
Allow
In
And
Out
Of
That
Country
And
How
If
There's
Some
Search
Engines
That
React
Differently
To
That
So
If
Anybody
Is
Really
Interested
In
That
You
Can
Do
A
Little
Searching
And
Find
Some
Information
About
That
So
Yeah
Google
Is
Not
Evil
Yet
And
I've
Never
Said
They
Do
The
Same
Things
That
Credit
Card
Companies
Do
They're
Doing
The
Same
Activity
So
Google
Isn't
The
Great
Buddy
Best
Friend
Of
Everybody
That
They
Seem
To
Think
That
They
Are
They're
Not
The
Friendly
People
That
Are
Trying
To
Look
Out
For
Your
Best
Interest
Now
They
Report
To
Stockholders
And
They're
Going
To
Report
To
The
Bottom
Line
Of
Making
Money
So
The
Potential
Is
There
That
They
Could
Do
Things
That
Aren't
As
Nice
And
Pretty
And
Flowers
And
Daisies
And
Puppy
Dogs
And
Kittens
Running
Down
The
Hill
It's
Not
Going
To
Be
All
Quite
That
Nice
I
Don't
Trust
Anyone
Especially
Big
Companies
Including
Google
That's
All I'm
Trying
To
Say
DTA
Don't
Trust
Anybody
Too
Much
Too
Much
That
You
Could
Get
Yourself
In
Trouble
Trust
No
One
I'm
Not
Really
That
Extreme
But
I
Guess
It
Comes
Across
That
Way
Sometimes
But
Yeah
The
Thing
Is
You
Know
This
I
Mean
You
And
I
Are
Usually
Pretty
Open
And
We
Don't
You
Know
There's
A lot
Of
People
That
Don't
Want
Their
Real
Names
Out
There
They
Don't
Want
To
Be
Labeled
As
A
Hacker
They
Don't
Want
To
Have
That
Association
With
Because
It's
So
Negative
Out
There
And
The
Dangers
That
Could
Come
With
Being
Labeled
As
Such
So
I
Do
Think
That
You
Should
Be
Allowed
Or
Have
A
Right
To
Privacy
That
If
You
Want
To
Try
To
Not
Associate
Yourself
With
That
You
Should
Be
To
Do
It
So
When
It
Comes
To
Going
Out
And
Doing
Searches
And
Visiting
Sites
And
You
Don't
Want
It
Tied
Back
To
Your
Name
I
Do
Think
You
Have
A
Right
To
Privacy
And
It
Is
Something
Kind
Of
Important
So
When
It
Comes
To
Those
Important
Rights
And
Important
Things
In
Your
Life
I
Don't
Trust
Many
People
Well
I
Completely
Agree
And
I
Had
A
Similar
Thing
With
TiVo
Where
Remember
When
The
Janet
Jackson
Thing
Happened
In
The
Super
Bowl
And
The
Next
Day
I
Think
TiVo
Was
Saying
That
Incident
Was
Seconds
And
When
I
Read
That
I
Was
Horrified
Because
How
Do
They
Know
That
Everyone
In
Their
Private
Homes
Here
Were
Suddenly
Hitting
Rewind
On
Janet
Jackson
Boob
And
It
Was
Because
All
These
TiVos
Out
There
Are
Sending
This
Information
Into
TiVo
Centro
Saying
Well
This
Is
What
People
Are
Watching
This
Is
The
Commercial
That
They're
Fast
Forwarding
Over
This
Is
What
They're
Rewinding
And
I
Was
Kind
Of
Horrified
That
Kind
Of
Information
Was
Coming
Out
Of
My
TiVo
I
Don't
Think
Anyone
Has
Any
Business
Knowing
What
Show
I'm
Watching
Unless
I
Choose
To
Tell
Them
So
I
Researched
It
And
To
TiVos
Credit
They
Were
Saying
That
It
Was
Anonymous
Information
It
Just
Goes
Out
From
The
TiVo
With
A
Zip
Code
On
It
But
I
Didn't
That
Didn't
It
Has
To
In
Order
For
Them
To
Know
How
To
Download
Information
Back
To
My
TiVo
And
Also
It's
Going
Out
Over
The
Phone
Line
And
I
Had
No
Idea
If
It
Was
Going
To
Encrypted
Data
If
Someone
Was
Tapping
Into
My
Phone
Line
To
Read
This
TiVo
Stream
Did
That
They
Now
Knew
I
Rewound
This
One
Commercial
Fifteen
Times
Why
Is
Watching
That
Not
Pushing
Anything
Out
And
They
Said
Oh
But
You
Know
It's
Anonymous
I
Said
I
Don't
Care
Turn
It
Off
And
They
Said
Okay
And
They
Turned
It
Off
I
Haven't
Personally
Hooked
Up
Something
To
The
Phone
Line
To
Confirm
That
Right
See
Again
There's
No
Auditing
And
Stuff
That
Goes
On
With
That
Or
No
There
May
Be
Some
Government
Requirements
But
We're
Not
Even
We
Don't
Usually
Get
To
See
That
As
Consumers
Unfortunately
But
Why
Don't
You
Go
Ahead
And
Admit
It
Now
That
You
Kind
Of
Let
The
Cat
Out
The
Bag
Which
Commercial
Do
You
Watch
Fifteen
Times
Come
On
I
Have
A
Secret
Fondness
For
Anything
With
Duran
But
You
Know
What
You
Gotta
Laugh
Though
At
The
Simple
Just
The
Simple
That
Is
The
Biggest
Stress
Test
In
The
World
I
Mean
If
Their
Servers
Weren't
Ready
For
Such
An
Event
Like
That
I
Mean
You
Gotta
Just
Be
Like
They
Went
In
Panic
Mode
I'm
Sure
Like
Somebody
Like
A
Third
Shift
Operator
Somebody
Was
Sitting
There
With
His
Feet
Propped
Up
Eating
A
Donut
And
All
Of
A
BAM
Red
Lights
Went
Off
And
It's
Like
Oh
My
God
Once
Every
24
Hours
Each
TiVo
Dials
In
And
Says
Okay
Here's
The
Activity
That
Occurred
Over
The
Last
24
Hours
And
They
Watch
These
Shows
And
They
Set
To
Record
This
And
They
Fast
Forwarded
Over
This
And
They
Rewound
This
And
Then
Probably
Someone
Who
Was
Looking
At
All
The
Data
Going
Wow
I've
Never
Seen
So
Many
Rewinds
Of
The
Same
Time
Speck
And
Somebody
Grabbed
A TV
Guide
And
Said
What
Was
On
Right
Then
Oh
Okay
Now
I know
It
Was
A
Tit
Oh
No
On
The
Internet
How
Could
That
Happen
There's
Boobs
On
The
Interweb
Who
Knew
That
Was
Going
To
Come
Okay
Anyway
Let's
Come
Out
Of
The
Email
That's
Just
You've
Gotta
You've
Gotta
Laugh
That
Somehow
Is
A
Famous
Event
In
Our
Pop
Culture
History
Absolutely
And
There
Were
Websites
Up
The
Next
Day
That
Had
Close
Ups
Of
It
So
You
Could
Actually
See
The
Piercing
And
The
Jewelry
And
When
I
Saw
That
I
Was
Like
Okay
When
I
Saw
The
Jewelry
That's
When
I
Knew
That
It
Wasn't
An
Accident
That
Was
A
Breast
That
Was
Expecting
Company
Exactly
It
Was
It
Wanted
To
Be
Aired
Out
There
Was
Oh
Man
I
Don't
Have
A
TiVo
So
It
Wasn't
Me
But
I
I'll
Start
Watching
TV
Too
Much
Again
And
Right
Now
I
Don't
Turn
The
TV
On
I
Watch
Maybe
One
Or
Two
Especially
You
And
I
Have
This
In
Common
Again
All
The
Shows
Are
Over
I
Mean
Survivor
Is
Over
The
Apprentice
Is
Over
American
Idol
Amazing
Race
They're
All
Over
So
I'm
Pretty
Much
Done
With TV
For
A
While
I
Have
All
Kinds
Of
Other
Interesting
Search
Terms
Especially
With
The
Da Vinci
Code
I'm
Pivoing
Anything
To
Do
With
That
And
I'm
Getting
All
Kinds
Of
Stuff
The
Interesting
Thing
Is
Some
Of
The
Christian
TV
Shows
Are
Starting
To
Realize
That
If
They
Put
The
Da
In
To
Their
Blurb
They're
Starting
To
Get
Increased
Ratings
Because
A
Couple
Of
The
Shows
That
Are
Coming
Up
Are
Really
Awful
And
Kind
Of
700
Club
Awful
But
Every so
Often
There's
Some
Interesting
Information
In
There
Yeah
And
This
Is
Probably
A
Topic
We
Should
Probably
Save
For
Later
But
Since
You
Brought
It
Up
There
Is
There
Are
Some
People
I
Guess
That
Have
Tried
To
Put
In
Spiritual
Or
Biblical
References
To
Not
Only
The
Da Vinci
Code
But
Cryptos
As
Well
If
I
Remember
Reading
Correctly
Yeah
Dan
Brown
As
A
Matter
Of
Fact
Yeah
He
Was
On
Good
Morning
America
And
It
Was
Funny
For
Me
Because
I
Talked
To
Dan
Brown
About
Some
Stuff
And
He
Had
Actually
Called
Me
To
Check
His
Facts
On
Some
Things
And
One
Of
Things
He
Asked
Was
Well
I
I'm
Pretty
Sure
That
It
Means
You
Know
We're
Not
Positive
But
We
Think
That
It
Means
William
Webster
Who
Was
The
Director
Of
CIA
At
The
Time
That
The
Sculpture
Was
installed
And
Then
Like
Within
24
Hours
He's
On
Good
Morning
America
Live
TV
And
They
Ask him
So
What
Does
WW
Stand
For
And
He
Says
Well
I
Think
It
Mickey
Morandini
Second
Baseman
For
The
Phillies
In
The
Nineties
Come
On
There
You
Go
Well
The
Matter
Has
Been
Put
To
Rest
In
I
Think
It
Was
In
The
Wired
Interview
That
Occurred
In
January
The
Reporter
Who
Did
A
Really
Awesome
Job
I
Have
To
Say
Kim
Zetter
She
Asked
Sanborn
What
WW
Stood
For
And
He
Said
It
Stands
For
William
Webster
There
You
Go
There
It
Is
It
Vindicted
Justified
All
Right
Well
Let's
Move
Into
A
Little
Bit
Of
Show
And
Tell
Here
I
Only
Got
A
Couple
Quick
Things
I
Went
To
My
2600
Meeting
This
Past
Friday
And
Was
Pretty
Good
We
Had
A
Little
Presentation
On
SQL
Injection
Specifically
Focusing
On
Web
Forms
A
Little
Quick
Presentation
By
Mia
Flux
So
That
Was
Pretty
Cool
Very
Interesting
We
Had
Quite
A
Few
New
People
Again
So
Our
Meeting
Is
Still
Growing
And
Still
Getting
More
Active
We
Used
To
Get
Average
Of
10
People
I
Mean
It
Slowly
Growing
But
We
Had
As
Many
As
20
Before
Now
We're
Starting
To
Average
15
To
20
So
The
Meeting
Still
Growing
And
Getting
Bigger
Unfortunately
I
Don't
Think
I'm
Going
To
Be
Making
It
Down
There
For
Them
Anymore
Just
Because
It's
Gotten
Too
Far
For
Me
To
Drive
And
Too
Time
Consuming
And
Honestly
I
Know
This
Sounds
Silly
But
With
The
Price
Of
Gas
A
Little
Bit
Cost
Ineffective
If
You
If
That's
A
Proper
Way
Of
Using
That
Term
So
However
If
There's
People
Still
Going
And
Giving
Presentations
I'll
Probably
Still
Show
Up
To
That
But
We
Have
Def
Con
Meeting
Second
Saturday
Of
The
Month
Is
When
Our
Local
Def
Con
Meeting
Is
So
If
Anybody's
Def
Con
Meetings
Coincide
With
That
Don't
Forget
About
Those
This
Weekend
So
I'm
Looking
Forward
To
Go
To
That
Especially
With
Def
Con
Coming
Up
Because
I'm
Still
Working
On
My
Plans
For
Def
Con
And
We
Were
Talking
About
That
A
Little
Bit
Before
The
Show
But
You're
Already
Set
And
Locked
In
Like
Me
I
Wait
Until
The
Last
Minute
You
You're
Already
Done
I
Find
For
Def
Con
That
My
Life
Is
Much
Less
Stressful
If
I
Make
My
Hotel
Reservation
About
Six
Months
Ahead
Of
Time
Yeah
They
See
Def
Con
Hadn't
Even
Prompted
Set
Up
Rooms
For
They
Haven't
Even
Set
Up
Alexis
Park
Yet
When
You
Order
Tickets
You
Probably
Ordered
Them
Before
There
Was
A
Set
Conference
Price
Or
Something
I
Don't
Know
I
Think
I
Think
That
Alexis
Park
Has
Had
Def
Con
Long
Enough
Originally
I
Had
To
Call
On
The
Phone
And
Now
Alexis
Park
It's
All
Online
You
Can
Just
Go
On
The
Internet
And
Say
That
You
Want
To
Be
There
For
Those
Dates
And
Make
The
Reservation
That
Way
But
I
Don't
Remember
If
There
Was
Part
Of
A
Block
Or
Not
All
Right
Well
How
About
Some
Show
And
Tell
We
Are
Going
To
Talk
About
Cryptos
A
Little
Later
But
What
Other
Stuff
You
Been
You
People
I
Think
People
Have
This
Impression
That
All
You
Do
Is
Sit
Around
And
Try
To
Figure
Out
Cryptos
All
You
Do
A
Whole
Lot
Of
Other
Stuff
I
Mean
You
Do
A
Lot
Of
That
Kind
Of
Stuff
But
As A
Game
Developer
At
Simutronics
Play.net
We
Do
Online
Multiplayer
Games
And
We
Were
Actually
Just
Showing
Our
Newest
Game
At
The
E3
Convention
In
Los
Angeles
E3
Is
A
Hell
Of
An
Experience
Everyone
Who
Goes
To
E3
Just
Talks
About
What
An
Assault
On
The
Senses
It
Is
With
Visuals
And
Noise
They
Are
Starting
To
Get
A
Handle
On
The
Noise
I
Heard
And
This
Is
Not
Confirmed
But
I
Heard
That
Last
Year
It
Was
So
Loud
That
This
Year
They
Actually
Put
Decibel
Requirements
On
The
Boots
And
They
Actually
Had
Someone
Walking
Around
With
A
Sound
Meter
Checking
To
See
If
Someone
Had
Their
Volume
Turned
Up
Too
Loud
And
It
Was
Noticeably
A
Tiny
Bit
Quieter
I
Could
Actually
Hear
People
Every
So
Often
But
We
Been
Kind
Of
Staying
Low
Key
At
E3
Over
The
Last
Few
Years
But
This
Year
We
Decided
To
Pull
Off
The
Wrapping
Paper
And
Show
That
We
Actually
Are
Working
On
A
New
Game
Called
Hero's
Journey
And
It
Is
Best
Of
Show
So
Now
Of
Course
We
Have
All
These
Expectations
And
So
We
Have
To
Work
Really
Hard
To
Meet
Those
Expectations
So
The
Next
Year
Is
Going
To
Be
Very
Crazy
For
Us
It
It's
Already
Been
Crazy
But
It's
Just
Going
To
Ramp
Up
And
Get
Crazier
We've
Got
A
Convention
Coming
Up
At
Simucon
Which
Is
When
We
Have
Customers
Come
In
From
All
Over
The
World
Who
Play
Our
Games
And
They
All
Come
Into
St.
Louis
So
That
Convention
Is
Coming
Up
In
Two
Weeks
And
For
Anyone
Who's
Thrown
A
Convention
You
Know
That
Those
Final
Two
Weeks
Are
Completely
Chaotic
And
Then
There's
Cryptos
With
The
Wall
Street
Journal
That
Came
Out
And
So
Then
There's
Ripples
Of
Press
That
Go
Out
From
That
I
Was
Invited
To
Be
On
Talk
Radio
Show
In
St.
Louis
And
Then
A
Couple
Days
Ago
I'm
At
Work
And
I'm
Thinking
Okay
This
Is
Too
Much
Chaos
We
Have
Heroes
Journey
We
Have
Simucon
Coming
Up
We
Were
Just
Out
Of
E3
And
I'm
Just
Going
To
Shut
Everything
All
These
Extra
Side
Projects
Off
And
I'm
Just
Going
To
Focus
On
My
Work
Here
And
Then
The
Phone
Rings
I
Think
It
Is
Actually
An
Email
And
CNN
And
CNN
Wants
To
Do
A
Segment
On
Crypto
So
I'm
Like
Well
Okay
There
Goes
All
My
Prioritization
Right
Out
The
Window
Because
There's
No
Way
I'm
Going
To
Tell
CNN
I'm
Sorry
Can
You
Call
Back
Next
Month
Yeah
I'm
Currently
Working
With
The
Producers
There
On
A
Segment
We
Don't
Know
When
It's
Going
To
Air
Yet
But
We're
Definitely
Working
On
Some
Interesting
Bits
For
It
And
I
Know
You
Very
Much
Want
To
Get
As
Many
People
Involved
In
Cryptos
As
Possible
I
Know
That's
You
Know
Again
I
Said
It
As
A
Joke
People
Think
You're
Sitting
Around
Cracking
You
Know
Doing
But
You
Just
Want
Somebody
To
Figure
It
Out
You
Just
Want
I
Mean
There's
The
Group
Is
It
A
Yahoo
Group
Yes
Cryptos
That's
A
Lot
Of
People
Working
On
This
It's
Not
Just
You
It's
Just
That
You're
Good
At
It
I
See
My
Skill
Is
In
Gathering
Lots
Of
Information
I'm
Good
At
Finding
Info
And
I
Gather
It
All
And
I
Present
It
On
My
Website
So
You
Go
To
Google
You
Type
In
Cryptos
My
Site
Ilanka.com
Slash
Cryptos
Pops
Up
And
I
Try
To
Have
Every
Possible
Piece
Of
Information
Whether
It's
An
Article
Or
I've
Got
B-rolls
Of
Some
News
Videos
That
Are
Under
Password
For
Some
Of
The
Researchers
I've
Got
Every
Picture
That
I
Could
Find
Of
Cryptos
A
Lot
Of
The
Links
To
The
Wiki
Databases
Where
We're
Trying
To
Gather
More
Information
On
It
And
Then
Also
On
The
Artist
Jim
Sanborn
I've
Got
All
The
Information
That
I
Can
Find
On
His
Work
Every
Work
That
He's
Done
That
I
Know
About
And
Where
Is
It
And
When
Was
It
Made
And
What
Was
It
Made
Of
And
What
Did
He
Do
With
Codes
On
Them
And
Which
Of
Those
Have
Been
Cracked
And
Here's
What
They
Say
And
Just
All
That
Data
And
It's
My
Hope
That
By
Presenting
That
Data
And
Also
By
Public
Speaking
About
Cryptos
Like
At
Def
Con
And
At
Local
Universities
And
Here
On
This
Radio
Show
That
I
Can
Continue
To
Increase
The
Visibility
Of
Cryptos
And
I
Think
The
More
Brains
That
Come
In
To
Work
On
This
Problem
And
It
Doesn't
Always
Have
To
Be
Super
Smart
Crypto
PhDs
I
Just
Want
Lots
Of
Different
Viewpoints
All
Coming
In
And
Working
On
This
Problem
Because
It
May
Be
Some
Student
Or
A
So
I
Do
Not
Have
To
Be
The
Person
That
Cracks
It
No
I
Want
To
See
It
Cracked
And
If
I
Can
Help
Get
It
Cracked
By
Shoveling
Information
At
People
Who
Are
Smarter
Than
I
Am
Or
Who
Have
Other
Points
Of
View
Than
I
Do
Then
I
Give
Them
All
The
Information
I
Can
All
Right
Well
Let's
Put
That
On
The
Back
Burner
And
We'll
Come
To
Get
On
Your
Site
And
I
Start
Reading
And
Looking
At
It
And
Then
I
Look
Up
And
It's
An
Hour
And
A
Half
Later
And
I
Really
It
Hooks
Me
It's
Interesting
And
It
Is
One
Of
Those
Things
That
You
You'll
Find
Very
Interesting
You'll
Learn
About
It
And
You
Will
Kind
Of
Be
Drawn
Into
The
Whole
Game
If
You
Will
So
Let's
See
If
We
Can
Do
Increase
Some
Visibility
Actually
I'm
Kind of
Curious
About
E3
Though
If
You
Don't
Mind
You
Were
There
As
An
Exhibitor
Of
Course
Like
You
Said
Now
Does
That
Mean
That
You're
Like
In
A
Booth
The
Whole
Time
Did
You
Actually
Get
Out
To
Look
Around
And
Actually
I
Think
We
Should
Probably
Mention
I
Don't
Think
We
Mention
That
It's
What
Is
Electronics
Electronic
Entertainment
Expo
And
It's
The
Largest
Well
One
Of
The
Largest
Conventions
Where
It's
Industry
Only
So
It's
Not
For
The
General
Public
And
It's
Where
Game
Developers
And
Game
Publishers
Show
Off
The
Games
That
They
Currently
Have
For
Sale
And
Games
That
They
Are
Planning
On
Releasing
Over
The
Next
Few
Years
As
A
Way
Of
Getting
Attention
For
Those
Games
And
It's
A
Very
Hot
Ticket
Demos
Of
The
Upcoming
Games
But
It
Is
Not
Available
To
The
General
Public
Absolutely
Not
And
They're
Getting
Stricter
And
Stricter
On
That
Every
Year
I
Saw
There
Was
A
Big
Line
Of
People
That
Were
Trying
To
Get
In
This
Year
And
They
Were
Required
To
Show
That
They
Were
In
A
Game
Company
They
Had
To
Show
Like
A
Pay
Stub
Or
Some
Sort
Of
A
Tax
Certificate
But
They
Needed
To
Have
A
Verifiable
ID
Now
I
Know
For
A
Fact
That
Some
People
Still
Get
In
Because
They've
Got
A
Link
To
A
Game
Company
And
They
Get
In
As
A
Tester
Or
Something
When
They're
Not
Really
A
Tester
But
Overall
E3
Works
Really
Hard
At
Restricting
It
To
Industry
Only
How
About
Media
Members
Of
The
Media
Absolutely
Press
Is
Definitely
Invited
Binary
Coming
In
We
Have
People
Come
In
With
The
Video
Cameras
On
Their
Shoulder
And
It's
From
A
German
TV
Station
And
It
Was
Very
Exciting
Very
Exciting
People
Were
Actually
Waiting
In
Line
Just
Coming
Over
To
See
Our
Game
Though
The
Big
Lines
The
Biggest
Line
That
I
Saw
Was
For
The
Game
That
Got
The
Overall
Best
Of
Show
Of
The
Entire
Thing
And
That
Was
The
Legend
The
New
Legend
Of
Zelda
Game
Really
It
Was
Over
In
The
Nintendo
Booth
And
I
Walked
By
There
Once
And
They
Didn't
I
Couldn't
See
The
Game
But
There
Was
This
Line
Of
People
And
I
Asked
What
The
Line
Was
And
They
Said
It
Was
People
Waiting
To
Get
In
To
See
The
Legend
Of
Zelda
Demo
Apparently
They
Had
This
Thing
Where
You
Walk
Through
A
Forest
And
I
Kept
Walking
I
Said
Two
Hour
Wait
From
This
Point
I
Kept
Walking
I
Said
Three
Hour
Wait
From
This
Point
I
showing graphics that use NVIDIA graphics.
And out there, you'll be able to see several of the hot new games
all at once, all in one place.
And that's a quick way to avoid the lines.
Cool. Very cool.
All right, well, you know, all this stuff you've got going on,
in addition to me emailing you going,
when are you going to be back on the show?
When are you going to be back on the show?
As if all of this wasn't enough,
then you got another phone call, not from CNN.
But you had something else,
and this is really going to be our main topic tonight.
What was the other drama that you had to deal with?
Yeah, like I didn't have enough stress.
By the way, just personally, I have a friend in the hospital,
which has me kind of frantic,
because I want to be spending my time there,
and I can't because I have everything else going on.
But Saturday morning, I'm woken up by a phone call,
and it's from Dell Financial Services.
And they're saying, you're at Lankadun?
And I'm going, yeah.
And they say, and the last four of your Social Security are this.
And I'm like, yeah.
And they're saying, and did you just order a Dell computer?
And I'm like, no.
And they say, well, your identity has been stolen.
So you need, and the girl that called me,
she had like a little script that she was reading.
So I get the feeling they do this a lot,
and they've got standard procedures.
And she said, okay, your ID has been stolen.
We recommend that you call the following 800 number.
And then you should also put an alert,
a security alert on your credit report.
And if you have any questions, you can call back this number,
and this is your case number, and kind of good luck.
And so I'm kind of in shock,
and I'm just taking down all these notes.
And then I hang up the phone, and I'm going, okay.
My first thought was, is this just another fish?
I was getting ready to say.
They want me to call this 800 number to enter in my information,
when in actuality this is just another fraud.
So the first thing I did,
because I'm really paranoid about these things,
is I logged on to the Internet, and I checked,
and it was a valid number, and I called it.
The number they gave me,
and it was interesting seeing the systems that are in place for this.
There's so much identity theft going on.
I mean, thousands of cases of this every week.
I think that the mainstream credit industry is developing their own.
It's like an arms race,
and they're developing their defenses
and their techniques for dealing with it.
So I was kind of sucked into the system,
and so this is kind of my story about what that was like.
The first thing I did was I called that number,
which was a toll-free number for the Experian Credit Agency,
Credit Report Agency,
and the number is 1-888-397-3742.
So I'll verify that that's a legitimate number as well.
And a lot of people, they know they have credit reports,
but they don't know that much about credit reports.
Well, I now know a lot about credit reports,
and there are three primary credit report agencies.
They're called Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion.
Right.
And they do share information between them,
but the information that each of them has is vastly different.
The reports that they produce are vastly different.
So I called the Experian number, and it was all automated,
and I put what's called a security alert on my report.
By putting it on Experian,
it also went on the reports of the other two agencies,
Equifax and TransUnion.
I then started calling law enforcement.
I called the FBI.
I went down to the St. Charles Police Department,
and I filed a report there.
I will say that the police were not that supportive
because I did not have a specific loss.
Since Dell was on the ball
and had noticed that the information was incorrect,
and they had not opened an account,
and someone had not taken out a loan in my name,
I hadn't actually lost any money.
And the police were kind of reluctant to file a report on that,
but I know better,
and because I've been to talks on identity theft,
and I pushed, and I insisted that they file a report,
and then I got a complaint number.
And then I started filing the report with other places,
the FTC website and the FBI website,
and they asked,
have you filed this with the police,
and what is the complaint number?
And so I had all of that information.
I've also been calling various creditors and letting them know.
And then I found out also that the state legislatures
are also starting to get on the ball on this,
and you don't have to pay for your credit reports.
For example, here in Missouri,
they passed a law, I think, in March
that says everyone is required to a completely free credit report
at least once a year.
And if you want to get that credit report,
you go to a site, which is annualcreditreport.com,
and you enter in your information and what state you're from,
and then that will route you to all three of the different agencies,
and then you can enter in information there.
And it's kind of interesting.
It's all automated, but they still do things to verify your identity,
and I'm not going to say exactly what those were.
If anyone's curious, they can go and log in for themselves,
but I thought it was some creative stuff.
And if you go to each of those sites and you enter in your information,
and then they will show you your entire credit report right there on the spot.
You're not waiting for snail mail, and you can print it out.
And I was surprised how the credit reports were so different between the agencies.
I was also surprised at some of the other errors that have crept in.
For example, my current address was often confused with the addresses of my relatives,
and I would see, like, my sister's address in there
and my parents' address in there.
So those are things that I'm going to have to do to go in and get that straightened out.
I didn't see – I mean, I'm still reviewing.
There's a lot of data.
But so far I haven't seen that I was actually out any money.
I think Dell was on the ball.
Yeah, how did Dell catch it?
How did Dell catch it?
Shall I continue here?
How did Dell catch it?
Let's back up to the beginning.
What triggered Dell to think that this had even happened in the first place?
I don't know the exact details.
My guess is that Dell was contacted by someone who said they used my name,
they used my Social Security number, they applied for a loan,
and then Dell had the phone number once they did a credit report on my Social Security number
and called my number to verify.
And I said no.
And they said, okay, well, someone is trying to do this in your name.
They may have also seen that the shipping address was different from my home address.
I don't know.
So my gut from the research that I've done on identity theft,
and I've done a lot of research even before this incident.
I've been to a lot of talks on it and done a lot of reading on it.
There are some really scary groups getting going out there with identity theft,
and it's getting very linked with organized crime,
especially coming out of other countries, especially in Eastern Europe.
And what often happens is some of these very organized groups out of there,
and these are the kind of people that they'll come out and break your legs if you don't do what they want.
And people have literally been killed in the hacking scene over there.
They're not playing around.
But they will break into American banks and American and Western financial institutions,
grab the database, and then either hold it hostage trying to get payments in order to not release it,
or they will just go ahead and sell it.
And if they do get payments, all that's going to happen the next day is that they come back and say,
okay, now give us more, now give us more.
But there are groups over there where you can log into chat rooms
and just see a constant steady scroll of IDs, names, Social Security numbers, everything.
They are selling for about a buck apiece.
It's very, very cheap.
And my guess, and again, this is just a guess.
I don't know for sure that this is what happened to me.
I'm pretty sure that my data, it didn't go out because of anything I did
because I'm super paranoid about this stuff.
But probably somebody broke into one of these financial institutions that had my information.
The information was harvested that way and it was in some pool.
Someone wanted to buy a computer and they just, when they needed to apply for a loan,
they just randomly reached into the pool, pulled out my name to see if it would work.
If it didn't, my guess is that they just kept reaching into the pool and pulling out other people's names
until they found something that did work.
I've definitely seen that happen as well.
I'll, and I can't go into the details, but I do a lot of fraud checking.
Right, but why is this, I mean, you even said yourself, why is this the hacking scene?
Why does this get associated with hackers?
I mean, this is really more of an organized crime syndicate, an organized crime scene.
They may have computer people in there that have skills to do breaking and entering and stuff like that,
but when you see and hear this about, on your local news, you don't hear that there are these organized crime syndicates.
What you hear is that all the evil hackers are out to steal your credit card.
Well, I think that's just a semantics issue in terms of when we use the word hacker or the news uses the word hacker.
And when I use the word hacker, it could really mean either thing.
I could say hackers in Eastern Europe, and that could mean something entirely different from when I say hackers in St. Louis 2600.
Right.
Just, I wish the media would start differentiating more, though.
I think that the clue level is rising.
Yeah, it's a long fight.
They're realizing that, I've talked to some law enforcement here in St. Louis,
and I've done a lot of educating of law enforcement here in St. Louis,
and they understand that when there's a local 2600 meeting, it's not a bunch of wannabe criminals.
It's generally, it's a hobbyist group.
Right.
It's an identity thing.
It's fun.
Again, it's taking apart hardware, and it's not people seeking to defraud their neighbors.
Right.
But the same law enforcement also understand that, especially in other countries, that it's a very, very different thing.
And they've told me some stories, which has really opened my eyes to the kind of thing that's going on.
And it's to the point that some of the large online retailers here, for example, Amazon and others,
I have heard that they will no longer ship to certain addresses outside of the U.S.
simply because the majority of orders that come in from those countries are fraud.
Oh, yeah, certainly.
It's bad identities.
So as the arms race continues, what's happening is these hacker groups, what they're doing is they're looking for reshippers.
And so they will reach out to people in the United States and say, hey, can you do me a favor?
I'm going to be placing some orders, and the orders are going to be coming to your house.
Can you just get it and then put a new label on it and ship it out to me, and I'll pay you for your trouble?
And it sounds like a good deal, and some of these reshippers may be making thousands of dollars a month
until the law catches up with them, and then they're going to jail.
Right.
But I've also noticed that in my email spam, along with the 419 scams, the Nigerian stuff,
that I'm starting to get an increase in letters like that.
I don't know if any of your listeners have noticed, but letters that are saying,
hi, can you help me with a shipping problem?
And my advice is don't do it.
Just don't get involved.
Just say no.
Yep.
DTA, don't trust anyone.
Yep.
See?
Well, let's see.
What, like you said, it's ongoing, and there's some things you can't really talk about,
but all in all, what kind of, A, how confident are you that it's going to work out,
and, B, how much of a hassle is it going to cause to what extreme?
For example, do you have to go be issued new credit card numbers with new numbers on them
and new, you know, do you have to change your social?
Do you have to change?
I mean, how far-reaching are the impact of your life?
How annoying is it to have to recover from something like this?
Well, I think in my case, I think I got lucky.
I think, and I'm still reviewing my credit report, so I can't say this with certainty,
but it looks like that was the main attempt that was made, the Dell attempt,
and it was not successful.
However, I've heard of many other people who have had a tax made,
and it was not defended against,
and people who have had mortgages placed in their name and loans taken,
and they are suffering financial losses because their credit history is getting so tangled up.
For me, I don't think I'm going to have to apply for a new number
or a new credit card or anything like that, but this just happened yesterday,
so I'm just kind of giving you an in-process progress report here.
And if you want, I'll tell you on a future show,
and if there's anything else that comes of it, I'll keep you posted.
Yeah, definitely email us and let us know how it turns out
and any other interesting information.
I mean, again, you know, hackers may be labeled sometimes with this,
with the media and whatnot, by the ignorant media, that is,
and we can be victims of this just as much as anyone else.
Right.
All kinds of stupid ways to let information get out,
people who will give their Social Security number over the phone
or will be sloppy with their bank statements and toss them in the trash.
I don't believe I did that.
I believe that I did all of the things right in terms of keeping my information secure.
And, I mean, just like you were saying, don't trust anybody.
I've got a big, wide streak of paranoia.
Even when a bona fide creditor calls me,
and I'm not going to give them any information
until they've really proved the heck out of who they are.
Exactly.
But even when you take all the precautions, you can still get hit.
Yeah, and I guess that's the moral of the story.
That's the thing.
Don't, I know it sounds silly and somewhat as a joke,
but really don't trust anyone.
Like, even when you initially started the story,
you got a call from Dell asking these questions.
You know, I immediately even suspect the call,
and you said that yourself too.
You learned on the Internet to make sure that that was a valid number they had you calling.
You made sure you didn't give them any information as if they were doing a phishing attempt on you.
Absolutely.
So, you know, you've got to be careful.
Always, always be thinking, you know, why are they asking this,
and what would be the reason, and what should I say, and what shouldn't I say.
All very important things.
Never trust anybody blindly, blindly like that.
Because it could be anybody.
It really could.
Amen.
It really could.
All right, well, I'll tell you what.
Unless there's something else you wanted to mention or any other advice about this topic,
again, I wanted to talk about this because it does affect us.
We're not doing it.
We're victims of it like anyone else.
We as hackers, that is.
So, and, again, it may turn into a semantics debate,
and one that's not worth wasting time on,
but I would debate that people who do that aren't really hackers anyway.
What would you call them?
Criminals.
Oh, I agree.
Absolutely.
Criminals.
They're definitely criminals, but they're criminals who use cyber techniques.
They're cyber criminals.
Yeah, absolutely.
A criminal with a computer is still a criminal first and foremost.
Ah, well, anyway, let's move on to some non-criminal discussion,
and let's talk about cryptos.
We kind of alluded to it earlier.
We touched on it, but let's kind of talk about some updates on it,
and when we had you on the show before, I really wanted people to get a feeling about cryptography in general
and motivate them and let them realize that, like you said this earlier,
you don't have to be a rocket scientist or a microbiologist or all, you know.
Anybody can figure these things out, and you've told me stories before of, you know,
you might go to even, like, children may notice a pattern and notice something that you just didn't think of.
It's a different point of view or a different mindset that actually does give you some insight
or help you figure something out.
And the last time we had you on the show was hopefully to get people to realize that there are things that you can do,
and you absolutely have a chance at finding something that someone has overlooked.
And case in point, Mr. Sanborn mentioned that the biggest, most obvious clue to solving the last part of cryptos,
and we'll back up and explain what that means in a minute, still hasn't been found.
Yet it's the most obvious and easiest one to find, according to him.
So I think that's interesting that the most obvious thing in his mind still hasn't been found.
So all these great minds, maybe we're looking too hard and too deep.
But let's back up to what cryptos is.
For the record, the exact quote, and this is at the end of the Wall Street Journal article.
Okay.
Okay, it said,
Despite the struggles of would-be codebreakers, Mr. Sanborn insists the puzzle can be solved
and teases them by saying that one clue overlooked so far is sitting in plain view.
So, quote, the most obvious key to the sculpture nobody has picked up on, unquote.
Yeah, see, if it's obvious, maybe it just takes someone with a different view or a different mindset
or a different idea to help find that.
Well, let's talk about the cryptos.
We're hoping that, I mean, my group, we've definitely been churning over that sentence.
I don't know whether Sanborn is saying that no one's picked up on it,
or maybe we've picked up on it and he just doesn't know because he's not in our brainstorming group.
But it could be either way.
We know the first three parts.
We know what they say.
We know what the keys are for those three parts.
Well, let's break those three parts down, if you will.
Okay.
There are four total parts to it.
So why don't you explain one, two, three, and where we are now?
Okay.
There's a couple thousand characters.
Not exactly.
I know people are going to get them.
It's not 2,000, but approximately, ballpark.
There's about 2,000 characters on cryptos.
We know that there are four sections here.
The first section is the top two lines.
The second section starts at line three and goes down to the bottom of the plate.
Cryptos is made up of four plates, and the code is on two of those plates.
So parts one and two are on that top plate, and on the bottom plate we have parts three and four.
Okay.
The first part decrypts to the sentence, between subtle shading and the absence of light lies the nuance of illusion.
And the word illusion is misspelled with a Q.
And I've talked to Sanborn about that typo.
I said, was it just a mistake, or what was it?
Because there's no such word as occlusion.
He says, no, it was deliberate, but it's not what it is that's so important.
It's where it is.
It's orientation or it's positioning.
Okay, and that's where the rubbings are important, that you can see the orientation and the pictures.
I have rubbings of the sculpture that I obtained when I was on the grounds at CIA,
when I was speaking there about Al-Qaeda codes in 2002.
And I have rubbings of certain sections.
Specifically, there's an area on sculpture where the letters are a little bit out of alignment.
There's three letters that are kind of raised up about an inch or so,
and there's two letters that are kind of scrunched in.
And I had that in a graphic PowerPoint slide, and I was showing my slides to Sanborn.
And when I showed him that slide about the out-of-alignment letters, he pointed at them,
and he said, has anyone figured anything out about those yet?
They're important.
Hmm.
So they might be the clue, the key that he's referring to, but I don't know.
Some people have said, well, you know, the sculpture sort of looks like a flag,
or maybe it's its location, or maybe there's this round pool.
It's the Windows logo.
There's all kinds of ideas that are coming out there, but we really just don't know.
It's the Windows logo.
I solved it.
It's the Windows logo.
Geez, you guys haven't figured that out yet?
No.
And also, in case we didn't mention it, the location of the actual, this is a, again,
you have pictures on the site, of course, ilanka.com, but this is located where and exactly,
it's a sculpture, but kind of go into a little bit of the grounds and exactly.
Okay.
When the CIA commissioned a new headquarters building to be built in addition to their old
headquarters building at Langley, Virginia, which is where CIA is based,
they commissioned this building in the late 80s, and they put out the word to the art community
saying we want art to go along with the building.
And Sanborn had done public art projects before, and he applied for it and got the bid
and then decided to do a lot of research, and then he decided he wanted to do something involving codes.
So it wasn't something that the CIA asked for, but that's what Sanborn decided to do.
So the new headquarters was built, and in between the old building and the new building is a courtyard.
Standing in this courtyard is the crypto sculpture.
So it's about 10, 12 feet high.
It's about 20 feet long, and it looks like a flag.
It's kind of a wavy screen of copper that's extending from a large post of petrified wood.
There are letters punched through these copper sheets, and there's about 2,000 letters that are punched
into the sculpture, and half of the sculpture, the letters are what's called a visionaire tableau,
which is a way of, it's an encryption system.
The other half of the sculpture has the ciphertext.
So that half with the ciphertext, there are four codes.
We have solved three of them.
We don't know what the fourth section is, and it's currently one of the most famous unsolved codes in the world.
Now, Sanborn also made other pieces around the CIA campus.
He designed other parts of that courtyard in between the new and old headquarters building,
and also on the other side of the new headquarters building, there is a path leading straight into the headquarters building, the entrance.
On either side of that path, Sanborn placed some other pieces of art,
which are basically large slabs of granite about a foot thick,
that look like they're tilting up out of the ground, like a geological seam where you can just see the top of it.
These slabs are cut in very jagged shapes, so it's possible that the jagged angles are pointing at something we don't know,
or maybe like puzzle pieces.
Again, we don't know.
And in between the slabs are sheets of copper, and these sheets of copper have Morse code messages in them.
Sanborn has said that these Morse code messages are related to the second part of the code on the cryptosculpture,
but we don't know what that means when he says that they're related.
But the second part is finished, right?
There are some slabs.
One of them has a compass rose, a carved compass rose, where the needle is not pointing north.
It's pointing in a different direction towards a rock, which is a lodestone, a magnetic stone that Sanborn placed there.
And that's a common thing of Sanborn's.
He's done other compass roses with lodestones, and we've done things.
There's three sculptures of his with compass roses in the D.C. area,
and we tried plotting them all on a map and seeing which way they point,
but haven't really come up with anything on that.
There's also another slab in that front entrance area, which has nothing on it that we can see.
It might have some mild grooves.
We're not sure.
We're frustrated by not really being able to do some close-up observations of it.
I mean, I'm considered to be one of the world's foremost experts on cryptos,
and I've only seen the thing once.
Everything else I've got is from little snippets of photos here and there
and maybe a B-roll of a newsreel video.
But we're really kind of peering through this very small window,
trying to see as much as we can about this culture.
Now, you said the Morse code related to the second part, but hasn't that already been solved?
Yes.
Yes, that part, and I can read it.
The second part decrypted says,
It was totally invisible.
How is that possible?
They used the Earth's magnetic field.
X.
The information was gathered and transmitted underground to an unknown location.
X.
Does Langley know about this?
They should.
It's buried out there somewhere.
X.
Who knows the exact location?
Only WW.
This was his last message.
X.
38 degrees, 57 minutes, 6.5 seconds north, 77 degrees, 8 minutes, 44 seconds west, ID by rows.
That last part might also be ID by row S.
We're not sure.
We have to guess as to the punctuation on all these.
Oh, see, now that's what frustrates me about it.
You don't know which one of those.
It could be either one.
That's the stuff that kills me with some of these.
The latitude and longitude coordinates are interesting, especially the thing about 6.5 seconds north.
Any of your listeners who have played with GPSs or done geocaching,
they know that a tenth of a second of latitude is a very specific location, about 10 feet across.
So it's interesting that the text says 6.5 seconds, not 6 seconds, not 7 seconds, no, it's 6.5.
So we've tracked out where it points to, and it points,
some people thought it pointed to the sculpture, but it doesn't.
It points to a location about 150 feet southeast of the sculpture, also in that courtyard area.
Now, we have people that have been helping out who occasionally have access to the grounds,
and they've gone and looked there.
They say they couldn't see anything unusual.
Grab a shovel.
It's underground.
It's possible.
It's also, Sanborn, one of his favorite things to say, it's possible.
Oh, anything's possible.
Another speculation is that maybe it's not that spot where we need to dig,
but maybe that is the corner of some sort of a parallelogram or a rectangle or a triangle.
So maybe we need to figure out three points, that point and the cryptosculpture
and maybe something in the front entrance pieces, and then go dig at the fourth point.
We don't know.
And whenever I give talks about the sculpture, I will say, we don't know.
No, I don't know.
I can't tell you for sure if this is right or not.
Well, damn it, Alonka, let's go up there.
Let's grab a shovel and figure out a way to get me on grounds.
I'm there.
Yeah, if you can't get on grounds, there's no way I'm going to get on grounds.
That's for sure.
Oh.
Well.
Now, the third, shall I read the third part or tell you more about the first two parts?
Well, I do want, I want you to read the third one next.
However, before you do, is the actual context of the messages lead to the solution of the fourth one?
Are there clues, are they significant or are they just a famous quote that he felt like making?
Here's the payoff and now three is unrelated to two.
Or are there clues for two to figure three?
Are clues for three to figure four?
Or are all of them to help figure four?
Those are really good questions and I don't know.
We know that the first sentence, between subtle shading and the absence of light, lies nuance of illusion.
We were wondering was it a line from a poem or something, but Sanborn said no.
It's an original sentence written by him with carefully chosen wording.
So, it's possible that it is giving a clue to the key for one of the other parts.
The keys to open the first part, it's a visionary system that uses two keywords and the keywords are cryptos and the other keyword is palimpsest.
Palimpsest, by the way, is a word for a scroll that has had one message written on it, then that message was scraped off, and another message was then written on it.
And you can maybe see bits and pieces of the old message showing through.
Hmm.
And can you see?
Some people have looked at ways that may be that between subtle shading and the absence of light, it might mean the word, the keyword for the next section.
The keywords for the second section were cryptos and abscissa, abscissa, A-B-S-C-I-S-S-A.
Abscissa is a mathematical term meaning the X coordinate on a graph.
And between subtle shading and the absence of light, lies nuance of illusion.
It might be a clue for the word abscissa, between subtle shading, S-S, and the absence, you have A-B-S, and light, and light is C.
So it's possible that those kind of all work together.
But that's just sheer speculation, and it might be a total coincidence.
You know who could solve this?
The Hardy Boys.
Hey, let's get them on the case.
All right, so part three.
Part three also has some interesting text on it.
Right.
Part three used a completely different cryptographic system.
It did not use Visionaire, what was called a polyalphabetic substitution system.
Instead, it used a transposition system.
And it came out to say, slowly, desperately slowly, the remains of passage debris that encumbered the lower part of the doorway was removed.
With trembling hands, I made a tiny breach in the upper left-hand corner.
And then, widening the hole a little, I inserted the candle and peered in.
The hot air escaping from the chamber caused the flame to flicker.
But presently, details of the room within emerged from the mist.
X.
Can you see anything?
Q.
All right, so just listening to you, I've heard the letter X mentioned frequently.
And that's the second time with the letter Q, because there was a misspelling earlier with the letter Q.
I-clusion.
Right.
There's also misspelling in the second part.
The word underground is misspelled.
And Sanborn has said that that one also was deliberate.
So then there's a significant...
If they're deliberate, it's because there's some significance to them.
Yeah.
Did you recognize the third part, by the way?
Um, not from listening to it, but I know the answer from reading your site.
But go ahead and...
It is, and there's probably some of your listeners that are jumping up and down right now.
And yes, we know that this is a paraphrased extract from the diary of the archaeologist Howard Carter
on November 26, 1922, which was the day that he discovered King Tut's tomb.
All right.
So is there an underground part of the CIA headquarters there?
There's a lot of things underground at CIA.
Not that I've personally seen, but I know that there's a big chunk of it underground.
I'm certain that we're...
We can't even get on the grounds.
I know we're not going to get underground.
Yikes.
Okay, so that brings us up to the fourth part that has not been solved.
Now, just to reiterate, or just to clarify, all of the clues that we just mentioned and
all of the phrases, like, for example, the...
Now, let me think.
What's an example?
Like, the X's and the Q's.
What was you...
Okay.
Which one was broken first?
Part one, I assume?
Part two.
Part two was broken...
With the X's, yes.
Part two was figured out first, and then part one was figured out subsequently.
Were there things in part two that helped to solve part one?
Well, there's different people that have solved it in different ways.
The first person that we know for sure solved it was a man named David Stein, who worked at
the CIA, and he did it on his own time, weekends and whatnot.
CIA is very careful to say that, that he wasn't using his work hours to be working on the code.
All right.
He did it with pencil and paper, and my understanding is that, yes, he solved part two first.
Another solver was Jim Glogley, who was a computer scientist in California, and he has some really
elaborate computer programs that he used, and he ran computer attacks on it, and I'm
not sure which section he solved first.
He may have said that at some point, but I don't recall.
I'm sorry, Jim.
But do we know that, like, one part was used to help with another part?
Or let's, actually, let's jump to part three, where it's parts one and two in any way helpful
or used to help crack part three?
To my knowledge, no.
So we don't necessarily know that all of these particular clues and stuff that we found in
the first three parts, or these intricacies and these nuances, if they really do have
a relevance to part four.
They may or they may not.
Right.
I did come up with a system where, at the end of part two, it says, ID by rows.
And it's possible that that is a hint for part three, because part three, it's a transposition
system where you have to put things in rows.
But that, again, that's just speculation.
We don't know that for sure.
Okay, so...
Now, Sanborn did not know about codes at the time that he created the sculpture.
He decided he wanted to do something with codes, and then he partnered with another man named
Ed Scheidt, who was the chairman of the CIA Cryptographic Center and was getting ready
to retire.
And Ed taught Jim Sanborn about various encryption systems.
Now, when we've talked to Ed, for example, after David Stein solved the first three sections,
and he gave a talk on this at CIA, and at the end of the talk, Ed went up to David Stein
and said, congratulations, you solved them, but not in the way that they were intended
to be solved.
Hmm.
And I have also personally met Ed Scheidt at one of the art show openings for Sanborn in
D.C., and Scheidt said something similar, which is that there are keys to the sculpture
and that we solved it without recovering the keys.
Hmm.
How, um, we, okay, we can, if we come up with something that we believe is on the right
track, if we come up with a breakthrough, like noticing that there were some characters
that were off by about an inch, a little bit higher than the others, or we notice some
some sort of pattern, you particularly have been able to approach Mr. Sanborn and say, hey, we
discovered this, and he doesn't like to give, say, you're on the right track or anything,
but he will say things like, yes, that is correct, or no, that's, I mean, is he forthcoming
with any kind of help exactly?
Oh, I wouldn't call it help, but there are times when people have contacted me privately
and said, I think I've solved cryptos, I think this is what it says, can you forward this to
Sanborn and I forward it to him and he comes back and says no? But, but he, he, he is willing
to communicate about it, yes. And, and I, I, I should also add that if someone just comes
at me out of the blue and says, I solved cryptos, it says four score and 20 years ago,
will you contact Sanborn about it? I'm not going to, they have to give me more that convinces
me that they may actually have something. I regularly get people coming in and saying, oh, it's the
Fibonacci sequence or it's, it's Mary Magdalene or it says Jesus saves and that just goes into
the bit bucket.
All right. Right. Well, and that's why, you know, joining the cryptos groups, joining the
cryptos group, excuse me, the cryptos goose is something completely irrelevant that I just
made up. The cryptos, the cryptos group, you think I'd be better at talking after all these
99 episodes, but the cryptos group, I'm trying to say, if by now, if you're like me, I'm,
I'm on the edge of my seat and I'm thinking, well, what does this mean? What does that mean?
And again, to go even outside of it, this significance of the first three parts and some of the clues,
the significance of the text of the previous three messages that it resolved, a lot of pointing,
a lot of references to underground or beneath or below and things like that, and other physical
things like the Morse code on the slab. And is the location of the slab important or the
angle of the slab important or the compass pointing to something? Are the, are the, uh,
latitude, longitude, true latitude and longitude, or are they pointing to, uh, a location on the
crypt? I mean, there's so many questions that you just can't help but be pulled into this
mystery. Well, I can tell you about the latitude and longitude that when we talked to Sanborn about
that, he said that there was actually a, uh, uh, us, usgs benchmark near the sculpture and that had
the latitude and longitude written on it and that he used that to make sure that his coordinates were
correct. Hmm. So it's, it's probably not referring to somebody like you shouldn't apply latitude and
longitude to the crypto sculpture itself. It's probably referring to something that's actually
on the ground. I should also say that if anyone wants to join the group, they are more than welcome
to come in to join the group. You want to send an email to the following address,
cryptos dash subscribe at yahoo groups.com. And if you forget that, just come to my website,
ilanka.com slash cryptos. And if you forget that, just go to Google or any search engine. It doesn't
have to be Google and type cryptos and my site will come up pretty fast. Yeah. The CIA might, uh,
find out that you're Googling for cryptos and think you're a terrorist and might want to come after
you or some bizarre, no, I'm just kidding. We'll get off the conspiracy theory. I would have to do
more than that for them to be on their radar screen. Yeah. Well, one would hope, but yeah,
I'm just playing around, but I think, um, that's, we've got a few minutes, like three or four minutes
left, but I mean, if they're not motivated and interested in it, I mean, I swear, I, I think I'm
going to join myself. I don't know if I can, yeah, I don't think I can, I don't know if I can be the
most active just cause I like you, I've got so much going on and going to conferences and giving
presentations and all this other stuff, but I definitely want to start following it. And maybe
like you said, it's a, I very much believe in brainstorming, getting together with people and
bouncing ideas off. And you know, I may come up with something that says, you know, Hey, what about
this? And somebody says, well, yeah, if you add that to this idea, you know, working together,
teamwork is definitely, definitely the way to go, especially with something like this.
I wish there was, I wish it was more accessible. I think that would help tremendously.
If the actual, if we, it was easier to get access to the object and get on there and look around and
inspect things because seeing something firsthand is a whole lot different than in pictures.
Right. And, and I, I agree with that. I do know that after Sanborn made the sculpture for
the CIA, the crypto sculpture, he made another piece, which he called the untitled cryptos
piece, which he sold to a private collector. And I've tracked out, I've tracked down the
current location of that, which is in the home of a millionaire in Los Angeles. I was actually
there a couple of weeks ago looking at it. And there is a slightly larger version of that
piece of the untitled cryptos piece, which has a new name, which is antipodes. And it is publicly
visible at the Hirshhorn museum in Washington, DC. It does not look like cryptos, but it has all of
the text of cryptos with a few changes. For example, the two main changes, one is that it's in a
different order. Instead of going parts one, two, three, four, it actually starts with part three and
it goes three, four, one, two, three, four. And then I think it starts over and then it kind of
truncates very suddenly. Another difference is that on the untitled piece or antipodes,
there are two dots that are on the text there that are not on the version that's in CIA headquarters.
Don't know why the one has dots and the other one doesn't. The dots correspond to the location
of the initials WW. Oh, and one other major difference between cryptos and the untitled cryptos
piece is that it's two halves and one half has the text of cryptos. The other half is
all encrypted Russian text. And that Russian text has also been reproduced on another of
Sanborn's sculptures called the Cyrillic Projector. Right. And we know what the Cyrillic Projector
says. That was cracked in 2003. And that, to me, that's beautiful. That's a beautiful piece
of art. Yes. I love the Cyrillic Projector. It's just beautiful to look at. And I have links
all this and pictures all this on my site. Again, alanka.com. And let's kind of move out
here and close up. Again, Alanka, again, is very, very willing to help out and put information
on her site. And the cryptos group itself is very active with several members that are working
on this as well. So by all means, get involved if you really are interested in this and find
out more. And if nothing else, go to the site and read what alanka has. Even that, honestly,
even looking at the pictures and reading what's already been, may strike something in your head
that maybe hadn't been thought of, may trigger something that maybe hasn't been thought of
before. So please get involved with this. Check it out. It's definitely, definitely very
cool. All right. And let me, let me do some shouts here real quick. And you've got some shouts.
I'll, I'll, I'll stall for you for a second. Um, I just have a couple of quick shouts to Nick84.
Of course, he's always doing such great code for me. And I appreciate that so much, Nick,
doing great, great stuff. And to joke, uh, one of the new guys at our 2600 meeting, hopefully he'll
be, uh, coming back and sticking around. And, uh, how about you? What kind of shouts do you got?
Well, I, I want to say, um, I want to say hi first to the folks at University of Missouri
Rolla. They invited me out to speak specifically because they heard me on your other shows. I
wanted to say hi to them. Wow.
Certainly all the folks at meme streams, uh, St. Louis 2600, Midwest 2600, uh, Greg, who's,
uh, someone I've gotten back in touch with after 15 years. He was a sysop of one of the,
uh, BBSs in Los Angeles, in Los Angeles way back in the eighties. And also to my friend,
uh, who's been in and out of the hospital and was the, an engineer on the St. Louis arch.
Uh, and, uh, he's, uh, his, his health has been poor lately. He's 82 years old. We're all
worried about him. Uh, he was also kind of a, a, a bio hacker, uh, or flowers, uh, flower
hacking. He would take flowers and hybridize them and make different kinds of breeds of
daylilies. So there's pictures of his flowers all over the internet. I call it, uh, O.C.'s
flowers are blooming all over the net. So, uh, definitely a shout out to O.C. and his wife,
Dorothy.
Yeah. Very, very good stuff. And actually, you know what? Let's, let's make that the site
of the week this week. Uh, www.StLewisArch, A-R-C-H.com. Go check out. They got some great
photographs of that, uh, very famous landmark. And if you have email, uh, feedback of any
kind, send it to us at radio at BinRev.com or again, contact Alonca at alonca.com. Um,
and our closing music this week is from Lon Bobby. It's called Courage, a cool song I found
over on Song Fight, where I frequent, uh, quite a bit. And, um, that is going to do
it, um, oh, next week. Next week is episode 100. I already mentioned it's going to be
our 100th episode extravaganza. So, I don't know what that means, but I'll figure it out
between now and then. But for now, Alonca, thank you for being on the show, and I think
we should probably just tell everybody that we'll see them next week. Same hack time.
Same hack channel.
And so I'm lacking, I left that with my double eyes
Soon I'll be lacking much, but now I'm ready
I can't believe you, you're saying it's on my mind
I can't believe you, I don't even know
I'm here, at night, I don't even know
I'm not going to be inside
If I gave a fuck, but we should have loved it
I've given all my time, I couldn't make a buck
And so I lack compassion, I know I'm lacking joy
Soon I'll be lacking much, but now I'm ready
I can't believe you, you're saying it's on my mind
I can't believe you, I don't even know
I hear the whispers at night
I'm not going to be inside
You're saying it's on my mind
But now I'm not going to be inside
I know I'm not going to be inside
It's sad that I don't know.
To say what's on my mind, when I don't even know.
It's sad that I don't know.