This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs of you and a fag poned
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream packs
You need some ISOs? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the creepers
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIPs, SIPs
This is dedicated to the hackers and crack
Hey everybody, this is Stank Dog and you are listening to Binary Revolution Radio episode number 100
And motherfucking 2
What do you think about that?
Starting off the show with an MF bomb
I think there's going to be quite a few more of those coming up later on in the show
Based on the topic that we are going to be discussing today
Today of course being Tuesday, June 28, 2005
And when I say we, I'm referring to my new first time co-host this week
Who, this is actually kind of a funny story
This, even though this is a first time co-host
He's actually been on the show more than I have
It's actually a very strange situation that I have to admit is kind of a weird feeling
So, I'll let you guys think about that for a second
While I go on to a little bit more housekeeping
I didn't, I have to apologize
Kind of apology and thank you at the same time
To Austin
Austin, if you're listening
Austin had sent me a package like a couple months ago
And I had set it down in my office
And totally forgot about it
Just misplaced it
I threw it on a desk
And just never looked at it again
Never caught my eye
Just completely slipped my mind
I've just been so overwhelmed
And I just stumbled across it again this week
And I wanted to thank you, Austin
And apologize that it took me so long
To thank you and get back to you
But Austin has sent me some issues
Some back issues of Blacklisted Magazine
And I have some of them
And I would like to have a complete set
I have not gotten time to unfortunately
See if they're any of the ones I'm missing
And put them together yet
But I definitely wanted to thank you for sending them
And I did get them
And wanted to confirm that again
And thank you on the air
I feel so bad that it took me this long to get back to you
I should have at least emailed you or something
And in case you were wondering or think I snubbed you
I totally apologize
I'm not that big of a dick
I'm kind of a dick
But not that big of a dick
So I wanted to thank you about that
But yeah, I'm trying to put together a collection
You know, I've got all the old 2600s, of course
And several Blacklisted 411s
I'd like to put together a whole collection
Of not only those
But Thud Magazines
Which was the Hackers Underground Digest
Which was also put out
By the same people that did Blacklisted 411
So, if anybody's got duplicates
Or anything they want to send me
I would love to have them
But yeah, specifically again
To Austin
Thank you so much for that
Sending those to me
And the information in my Whois
Is real information
That's real address, name, and everything
So, thank you for sending those again
Austin
I apologize it took me so long
To get back to you
Now, my co-host this week
If you haven't figured it out
I'm thinking the people in IRC
Probably caught on to this pretty quickly
Because if you think logically
Who in the world could possibly
Have been on the show more than me
I took a couple shows off
I had some personal business to take care of
Some family emergency
Family situation to take care of
And Doug and Lucky 225
Took over the show for a couple weeks
But they, even them
With those two extra shows over me
That's not who I'm talking about
There's one person
Who you've heard
From episode zero
Right up until episode 102
Today
And that person
Is my co-host
And I'm just
Tickled pink to have on the show
Wait a minute
That's kind of gay sounding
Isn't it?
Tickled pink
I am excited
To have on the show
With us this week
The
One and only
Zerl
To co-host the show
With me
Zerl, welcome to the show
Greetings and salutations
My digital dogs
Computer comrades
And hacker and cracker brethren
That's right
And you know what
We have been trying to do this
For a while
You and I both
Are very
Very busy people
And I think we'll
Kind of talk about that
A little bit later on
In the show
But I'm glad we did
Finally work out some timing
To make this happen
Yes
Within a decade
We pulled it off
Before the ten year mark
Which was good
Stink
Man
You're committing me
To eight more years
Good grief
Gosh
I don't even know
If I'm
I'm going to be so old
By then
I don't even think
Anybody's going to be
Interested in what I have to say
I'm not even going to be
In computers ten years from now
The way things are going
We're all going to
Your words are true
We've known each other
For quite some time
And you've been
A big supporter of me
And we've been definitely
Trying to do this show
I guess since it's inception
A long
For a long time
Really
For a long time
You know what
I'm going to
This is kind of weird
We don't usually do this
But it's a little tangent
I don't know if I've ever
Told you this
Or if I did
I don't know if you
Remember this story
You tell me
You know how I first
Found out about your music
And how I first
Got in touch with you
Do you know where
No
I went out on
What was it at the time
It might have actually
Been back in the days
Of Napster
Believe it or not
The N word
You're going to say
Napster
I think
Yeah
I think
If it wasn't Napster
It was one of the earliest
Peer to peer things
And I just did a search
For a hacker
And I came across
This song
Called
Hackercracker.mp3
And I downloaded it
To see what the hell
It was
And from that moment on
I said
I've got to find this dude
And I went out
Searching
I went out digging
And made contact
With you
This was back in like
Red Dagger
Yes it was
Right
A time ago
See
See I know
What I'm talking about
I went back
And yep
So it's been
Gosh
It's been a long time
Hasn't it
It really has
It has been a long time
My friend
Wow
I didn't
That just sunk in
I didn't realize
It's been that long
We've been doing this show
For two years
And you've been opening
This show for us
For two years
Wow
Well it wasn't until
You used the software
I realized how long
We were talking
Yeah
Well gosh
You're right
That is
Wow man
I want to stop the show
Now and have some
Nostalgia talk
But
We've seen a lot
Of P2P networks
Rise and fall
Since those times
Yeah
We're going to measure
Time and software
Is that going to be
Something in the future
Where
Yeah we'll all be
Cyborgs
And just download
Straight to our
Cerebral cortex
Or something
Hard drive in our brain
But
Yeah let's
And I won't even
Get into the
Gestapo topics
Of how all these
Peer to peer
Get shut down
And restarted
And etc
But
Well you had to
Mention it
And that's why
We love you
Stank
Yeah I know
I just
I'm not one
To bite my tongue
And I think
Everybody knows that
Let's get to our
Housekeeping though
There's really only
One thing
And this kind of
Affects both of us
And that is
Just to let everybody
Know that
Zerl.com
Is now moved over
And hosted by
Ben Reb
Which we are
Very so glad
To do for you
For all the stuff
You've done
And given us
Permission
And all the support
You've given us
Over the years
Absolutely glad
To have you over there
And
It's a meeting
Of old souls
And I hope
It's going to be
A relationship
That really
Is a long term
One
That we can
Both really
Excel and
Educate each other
I'm really excited
About it
It's a wonderful
Integration
And the people
Applaud
Yeah exactly
As long as you
Keep sending me
That 50 bucks
A month
We're good
Right okay
I'll have such
Money right
Exactly
No no no
We'll be glad
To do it as long
As we can
And I don't
See any problems
With that
In true
Hacker and cracker
Fashion
I must say
My friend
Well and
Honestly
It really is
And we're going to
Find out later on
In the show
That there is
A surprising amount
Of camaraderie
You know
Between the way
You and I
Think about things
Is really
Really right on
Whether it's music
Hacking
Politics
A lot of
Different things
We're more
More alike
Than we are different
That's for sure
But before we get
Into that
Let's
Let's jump
Into the mailbag
For a few minutes
You're going to love
This first email
This week
This is
This is great
I've told you
This in the past
As a joke
That we get
These emails
Very frequently
On the show
So this is
Great timing
I could make this up
If I wanted to
Our first email
This week
Comes from
Leet4Life
And Leet4Life
Says
Dear Stankdog
I love the show
And especially
Love the theme song
Who does the theme song
And can you send me
A copy
Well Stank
I guess I can handle
This one today
Right
Well yeah
Actually go ahead
Well I'll tell you what
I wrote the song
And if you send me
Five bucks
I'll send you a copy
On CD
It was
No of course
I'm kidding
Go ahead
And this is
This is a momentous
Occasion in history
That you get to
Answer this question
Well I guess
Zerl did the song
And Stankdog
Has on his forums
Had an entire message
Dedicated to answering this
And I really appreciate that
I've got a lot of traffic
Over the years
And you can find the song
At Zerl.com
Z-E-A-R-L-E
And that's about the extent of it
And send steak
Five bucks
Yeah exactly
Right
No of course
Don't send us five bucks
Actually we've got another idea
We're going to pop on
Later on in the show
Speaking of five bucks
But again
We'll wait on that as well
But actually
Since we're kind of
On this topic
Is
Is it
Is Hackers and Crackers
Is that like
Your most successful track
Is that the one
That's more
Widespread
I mean what's your biggest
What's the biggest track
Is that it
Interesting you ask
I did a track called
Destiny's Child
And I guess
Everyone thought it was
The real Destiny's Child
And I used to get like
Thousands of downloads
And I guess people
Were really disappointed
To find me preaching
You know
My typical collective politics
Instead of these
Three women crooning
So
Wow
Since the facade
Of the Destiny's Child song
I mean
If Hackers and Crackers
Is indeed been
My new hit
And definitely
Most popular
And really
Giving me the inspiration
To continue working
And doing more stuff
You know
I would love to see
Maybe one day
We'll sit down
And talk stats
Of the site too
Because you know
My other favorite song
Is Watch Me
I think Watch Me
I think that's just
A great
Great
Not only
You know
See the thing about
We were talking about
About
The Hackers and Crackers
But
And how that's
Such a great beat
That you can just
Listen to over and over
And over again
But with Watch Me
I think it's the
Lyric
I mean the hook
And the style
Of that
Is just
I might almost say
That's a better song
Than Hackers and Crackers
Am I
I appreciate it
I think they're both
Really good
Really good stuff
Okay
Anyway
Enough blowing smoke
Up your ass
Let's move on
With this stuff here
Next email this week
Comes from
Gelada
Gelada says
Hey Stank Dog
And Zerl
There is
An article
Suggesting that
Google approached
I kind of edited this up
It was kind of a long letter
So I cut this down
A little bit
There is an article
Suggesting that
Google approached
An online retailer
Asking if they would
Like to be part
Of their new system
This new system
Is going to rival
PayPal apparently
Do I sense your
Google ranting
Beginning even
As you read this
I can see where
You might come from
It could tie in
With frugal
Gmail
No longer free
Now pay
Through gpay system
Classified ads
And so on
And now
They're going to have
Your credit card details
And shopping habits
They might even add
Those to the
Targeted adverts
On gmail
Yeah so
Um
Actually
I know you've got
So let me
Let me say
Real quickly
Because mine's not
I'm not going to
Rant on this
I mean
I know some people
Seem to think
That I'm
Anti Google
And I'm not
I just have
Reservations
About Google's
Direction
And I hope
They go the right
Direction
I'm not saying
They're gone evil
But I'm saying
They could
Because money talks
Stockholders run
And make decisions
I'm saying
I'm worried
That's all I've ever
Really said
So no
I'm not going to
Rant about this
Quite honestly
If it's good
I would use it
Because PayPal
Gets on my left
Nut
I'm so sick
Yeah I am
PayPal takes too much
Of the cut
But you know what
They have no competition
So if Google
Starts something
To compete with them
I think that's great
You know
More competition
Is better for us
The consumer
So I think
That's perfectly good
Now you know
He has a theory
About Gmail
Maybe they charge
For that
I think they've
Always said
That that would
Be free
And if they
Went back on that
That would make
Them into just
Out and out liars
So yeah
That would
That would piss
Me off
That would not
Be cool
That would piss
Me off too
I agree with you
But honestly
I don't use Gmail
So much
I use it a little
Bit but no
I still have
You know
And you do too
Now you have
At zero dot com
You have all the
I went to Gmail
I hate Hotmail
They burned me
The two megs thing
I had to throw away
All my emails
For ten years
Screw them
I'll never use them again
They suck my last nut
You know
And I went to Gmail
Only because
Of the ultimate betrayal
By Hotmail
And then they're going
To throw their little
Their you know
Megabyte increases
At the end
I wasn't impressed
You know
Yeah that's
Reactive
Instead of being proactive
They're reactive
Exactly
So
Well yeah
As far as Google
Stink
I agree with you
I was
You know
Yahoo was of course
The giant before Google
And I was really happy
With Google in the beginning
And I liked a lot
Of the things they did
And I was optimistic
And Google Maps
And some of the things
They have going on
In Google Labs
But I
You know
I read on Slashdot
That they've been
Emailing people
That have been using
Google Maps
And saying that
They're not using
For the right purposes
You know
Some of the things
That Google Maps
Is being used for
To map where
Pedophiles are
And cities in Florida
Or Chicago
I can't really remember
The city
And so I thought
That was
You know
Again
What you're saying
Is you know
The appearance of Google
Not making the right decisions
You know
This is a precarious position
When you have a company
Get this powerful
And really have a lot
Of the people's backing
And so
I'm interested in what happens
With Google in the future
And I think you present
An interesting point
Yeah I think
I think the next year
Is going to be
Very interesting
To watch Google
And how they respond
Actually I didn't know
About them sending out
Letters about
Using the Maps
I mean
I thought that was
Another one of Google's
Overall policies
Was
They said
We're just going to
Provide the information
Provide access to the information
We just put out
A good engine
And let the people
Use it
And deal with it
And now they're going to
Start sending letters
Telling us how
We can and cannot use it
No
He's got out
And Slashdot
I was specific to say
That these letters
Were very nicely worded
Which is I guess
The saving grace of Google
You know
Like if they're going to
Shit on you
At least they do it
In a nice way
You know
They're not being
A total prick
They're being nice
You know
Hey
You know
Please don't overuse
Our services
You know
Or ask us for permission
Before you do it
Even though we've told you
You can do whatever
You want with it
And it's still in its lap
It's still a beta form
It's not even
Fully put out
I think
Right
Yeah
And you know what
That's a good point
Maybe because it's in beta
I think they do have
Kind of disclaimers
On their lab stuff
That says they reserved
A right to modify it
Or change it to use
So maybe that's the
Disclaimer they're hiding
Under or something
My brother sent me
A picture
Just briefly
Of Fallujah
With Google Maps
And so I guess
They're expanding
And I wasn't
I didn't know this
But he sent me a picture
Of Buckingham Palace
In Fallujah
I had only explored
The United States
So I guess I hadn't
Really got into
The international maps
Yeah I have not either
That's a good point
I didn't even think about it
I do know
I don't remember
If I shared this
On the air before or not
But I went to look
At Disney World
Up in Orlando, Florida
North of me
And when you try
To zoom into Disney World
It says
Sorry
Information not available
They don't let you
See Disney World
From overhead view
They block it
How messed up is that
I'm telling you
When the mouse
You can't know
What goes on
I mean
Disney's the big brother
So they can't have
A big brother
On top of them
I guess
When the mouse talks
People listen
Exactly
There are actually
Some sites out there
I do not know
The URLs offhand
But there's at least
Two or three sites
Out there
That are like
They call them
Like virtual tourists
Or something
Where they basically
Go out and find
A bunch of landmarks
You can go to the site
And it has them
Broken down by category
Like famous buildings
Big cities
Amusement parks
Great lakes
And stuff
And what it is
Is basically
The Google map
Of these items
So if you wanted
To go see
For example
I don't know
The Sphinx
Or the Pyramids
They would have
That already saved
And you could go
To the site
And basically do
Like a virtual tour
Or something
Using the satellite view
So that's kind of neat
Yeah
So you can go
And see a bunch
Of these different
You know
Because there's some
Really cool architecture
Out there
There's some
Some cool
Like I don't know
That I'll ever
Go see the
The pyramids
In my lifetime
I don't know
I just made that up
I don't know
If they're actually
On there
But you know
Stuff like that
I don't know
That I'm ever
Going to make it
To see the Grand Canyon
Or the
Hopefully I'll make it
To that
If it's in the United States
Hopefully I'll make it
To it eventually
But you know
It's kind of
I think I ran across
A blog link
Of Google Maps
Being used in the same way
Google Map Vacation
Or something
Where they had done
Just what you're suggesting
You know
Grand Canyon
They had basically
Scouted out
Certain
Landmarks across
The United States
Devil's Tower
Interesting stuff
That you could look at
With Google
Yeah
That's cool stuff
And you know
Is Google going to start
Saying that they can't
Do that now
Or something
Or
I don't know
More power of the internet
I love it
You know
Keyhole
All of the software
Has been really amazing to me
I went and visited
My childhood home
In Florida
It was really interesting
You know
Yeah
I
You know
We've had a saying
That we
I think on the
Very first episode
Of the show
I said this
And this is
People tease me
About some of my
Countryified sayings
You know
I grew up in the country
And have some
A little bit of
Country sayings
Redneck sayings
Whatever
And I think on the
Very first episode
Of the show
I made this comment
And here
Two years later
It still holds
Completely true
About anything
On the internet
Once it's released
On the internet
That's it
And the way I said it was
And this is an old
Country saying
You can't put the shit
Back in the horse
No you can't
Once it's out
It's out
So Google
Putting this information
Out there
And there's a lot
Of hackers right now
Even in our forums
Gosh I wish I could
Give credit to the
Person's name offhand
Was posting out there
That he's trying to
Find a way to
Pull that information
Off of Google
Right like an
Interface
An API for it
Or something
Where he can
Pull that mapping
Information off
Because Google
Limits what you
Can and can't
Do with it
So like
Latitude
Longitude
For example
Things like that
Right
So yeah
I mean
It's out there
Now and it's
Only a matter of
Time people are
Going to start
Hacking it
That's what we
Do you know
Yes it is
And we're looking
Forward to this
New generation
Man
Yeah we don't
We don't
Accept limitations
That's the general
Thing about the
Hacker community
We're going to
Push it to the
Extreme
We're going to
Use it
However we
Think is best
To use it
And get the
Best use out
Of something
Don't tell me
What I can
And can't do
With it
If you're going
To put it
Out there
Put it out
There and get
The fuck out
Of the way
You know
I agree
But one other
Thing he mentions
In his email
Was about the
Credit card info
I mean if my
Credit card infos
Are out there
Tied into something
Else that is a
Point of concern
I mean Google
One of my reasons
That I do worry
About Google
Is the way that
They have implemented
All of the
Accounts
Like for example
It used to be
Gmail was a
Separate thing
And Zerl I don't
Even know if you've
Noticed this
I want you to
Watch this if you
Haven't already
But when you go
To Gmail and you
Sign on
When you were done
And then you went
To google.com
It was a separate
Thing
You know you had
A Gmail account
And that was it
Now go to
Gmail check it
Log in check your
Email and everything
And then just go to
Google and you'll
Notice in the upper
Right hand corner
It says sign out
Because it has you
Logged into Google
It also the same
Account that you
Use to access any
Google groups
So all of this
Stuff is shared
They know what
Groups you're going
To they know what
Email you're getting
With the app by
Doing the target
Advertising
That's what worries
Me and if they
Actually do tie
This on to the
G pay or whatever
They end up calling
It whatever this
Payment thing is
And they track
What I buy
How much I spend
And start targeting
Advertising to me
Like that
That does get
Yeah I can't fault
Them because it
Hasn't happened yet
But yeah it's a
Concern if that
If they go that
Direction that could
Be that could be
A bad thing
That could be
Yeah you don't
Want them to go
Borg on you man
I dig that
You dig that
Yeah I dig that
To a certain extent
It makes it nice
And convenient
You know there's
Nothing wrong
With a single sign
On
Well this was
This was all
The accusations
Against Microsoft
Where they were
Going Borg on us
You know
They were integrating
Too much
They were becoming
Too powerful
They had too much
Access to information
Too much access
To consumer
You know
Of servitude
You know the fact
That they were
You know embedding
Their software
Into it
We had no other
Choice
So it's interesting
That you know
This is
I like that you're
Bringing this up
About Google
I mean this is
What's happening
Is you get to be
This giant
You have to start
Making decisions
You know
Whether you're good
Or evil
And most of the time
We know how this falls
Because money talks
And bullshit walks
Right
And I hope
And I think you feel
The same way
I hope that Google
Doesn't go down that
That same route
Yeah
You know Google
So far has been
For the most part
Pretty good
So hopefully
This is all worries
Of things that will
Never come to be
But you know
Just watch your ass
That's all
Just be careful
That was a good email
That was a good email question
Yeah Gelata's
And actually we've got
I think we have another
Email from Gelata
Coming up too
But first
Email from Graham
Graham says
Hiya Stank
I've been listening to
For about three weeks now
Got as far back
As episode 75 so far
I must say that
On the whole
I love what I'm hearing
I'm from the UK
That's awesome
We have a lot of
Overseas listeners
Which is fantastic
So another foreigner
Listener to add
To your list
Love it
Yeah
On a different note
Just a small pet peeve
Of mine
Oh this is actually
Google related too
This is a good transition
Usenet and Google Groups
Or Deja News
As it used to be called
Aren't the same thing
At all
Google Groups
Is nothing more
Than a not very good
Interface and archive
Of Usenet
Usenet itself
Was around
A long time
Before Google
And will hopefully
Be around for a long time
To come
Also Yahoo Groups
And Google Groups
Are again
Very different concepts
Yahoo Groups
Used to be e-groups
For anyone who
Remembers back that far
And it's basically
A close approximation
To a single news group
But with a whole lot
Of other stuff
Bolted on to it
And yeah
This is
He's referring back
To last week's show
Where I did talk about
How Google bought up
Deja News database
And is trying to
Kind of incorporate
These things together
And I compared it
To Yahoo Groups
Because Yahoo Groups
Also offers
Mailing lists
And databases
And uploads
And things like that
So yeah
Yahoo Groups
Is definitely
More feature filled
Compared to Google Groups
The comparison
Okay back to his email
He says
The comparison can be made
Between a Yahoo Group
And a news group
But there is a large gap
Between the two
Yahoo Groups is
As I said
Much more fully featured
Than Usenet
But it also ties you down
To using their interface
To access it
Right
Finally
I personally
Almost always use
The Google search engine
For any searches
That I do
This isn't because
I think it's better
Or anything like that
But simply because
I use Opera
As my web browser
And that comes
With a Google search bar
Next to the address bar
Makes searches
So much quicker
Just to type it in
There
Than to have to go
To the search engine
Home page
It is customizable
As to which search engine
It uses
But I've never bothered
To change the defaults
As I've always been
More than happy
With it
So yeah
He said
Quite a bit more than that
But I cut it down
To that part
First of all
Welcome to the show
I hope you do
Stick around
We get a lot
Of new listeners
And they start
Listening to the shows
Backwards in time
Which is awesome
People are still
Downloading episode one
Episode zero
So that's really cool
And yeah
Like I said
I cut some of this
Email out
But the Google stuff
Is good
Also if you really
Want to listen to
He sent me a lot
Of information
About Google AdWords
And I'm actually
Going to be presenting
On hacking Google AdWords
At DEF CON
Next month
So I already
Covered a lot
Of what he said
In this email
And a lot
Of this presentation
Some of the presentation
Back in episode 86
Of the show
So what are we
102
So a couple months
Back
Three months back
And that's pretty much
An overview
Of how AdWords
Works
So yeah
I already had that
On the show before
Now on to Google
Groups itself
Yeah they're
Completely different
From Usenet
But as he mentioned
Right here in his email
Themself
They bought
The Usenet Archive
From Deja News
And that was
The big Usenet Archive
Which I don't know
Who but Deja News
Even bought it
From someone else
I think some other
Company or some
Other university
Or something
Had made the thing
In the first place
And they got bought
Out and traded
Around etc
The highest bidder
Type deal
But Google then
Went on to try
To make Google
Groups
To somewhat
Compete with Yahoo
Groups
Because Yahoo
Groups is a
Cool service
It really is
But Google
Tried to make
Google Groups
And the problem
Is that
It's not a problem
Exactly
But what they
Try to do
Is merge
Google Groups
With Usenet
So they've always
Had Usenet
Browsable through
Google interface
You know
And you could
Browse Usenet
But then when
They implemented
Google Groups
Basically they're
Trying to
Blur the lines
Between what is
Usenet
And what is
A Google Group
Like if you go
To I don't know
Alt.hackers
That's a Usenet
Group and you
Browse it through
The Google interface
But if I go
Out there and
Make
Stankdog
Hackers
It's going to
Look exactly
The same
As the Usenet
So you're using
The same interface
And it blurs
The line
There's nothing
Wrong with that
That's just the
Design that they
Went with
So yeah
They're absolutely
Two different
Things but they
Use the same
Interface
To work together
And it kind of
Makes this
Bastardized
Groups program
That confuses
People
Of what's
Really
Usenet
And what's
Not
And if
People forget
How to use
The real
I guess for
Lack of a
Better word
Anyway
The real
Usenet
Direct access
To NNTP
And Usenet
Servers
Then it could
Be
I don't know
It could
It's just
Kind of a
Mess
I'm not sure
That I
Think it's
The most
Healthy thing
If they get
People
Posting to
Usenet
Through
Google
Groups
And being
That they're
Google as
Huge as
They are
And so
Many people
Using them
And so
Few people
Knowing how
Usenet
Really works
And we did
An episode
Of the show
All the
Main topic
Was Usenet
And how
It works
And what
The protocol
And all that
Kind of stuff
Was about
If people
Forget how
That was all
Set up
And how
That works
Directly
And start
Thinking that
Google is
The only way
Or the
Fastest way
To it
It's going
To get to
The point
Where Usenet
Might die
Because
Why do you
Need Usenet
When Google
Groups is
Pretty much
The same
Thing
The way
That they've
Got it set up
And I'm
Talking about
To your
Average
Everyday
User
To people
Like us
Of course
Yes a lot
Of us
Know the
Difference
But if
People start
Thinking it's
A Google
Thing
They're only
Going to
Access it
Through Google
And that's
Dangerous
To Usenet
In the long
Run
I dig that
Alright
Now as far
As Google
Using Google
A search
Because it's
Built in
There
Yeah that's
Fine
I mean
I use it
For the
Majority
Of my
Searches
I try
To balance
Stuff
But I
Still use
Google
I mix
Stuff
Around
There's
One
Called
A9
Dot
Com
Which is
The one
That's
Owned
By Amazon
That's
Kind of
An
Interesting
One
I like
To
I just
Find the
Technologies
Of each
One of
Them
Interesting
In the
Way
They do
Things
So I
Play
With
All
Of
Them
So there's
Nothing
Wrong
With using
Google
Especially
Through
Your
Toolbar
If it's
Built
In
And convenient
For you
That's
Fine
Just
Realize
That if
You
Go
Searching
For
I
Don't
No
Alien
Hentai
Porn
Tentacle
Wrape
Whatever
That the
Potential
Exists
That Google
Has got
That log
That's
All
I know
You've
Got to
Be
Concerned
About
This
Sort
Of
Thing
I
Also
Fall
Into
The
Lazy
Category
I
Use
Firefox
And
The
Google
Search
Bar
Works
Really
Good
For
Me
But
Doing
Scholastic
Searches
I've
Actually
Realized
The
Limitations
Of
Google
And
I
Agree
With
You
That
You
Should
Use
Other
Search
Engines
You
Know
At
Work
I
Almost
Exclusively
Use
Google
Because
I'm
Always
Doing
Work
Searches
I'm
Doing
Code
Searches
I'm
Doing
Research
Or
Whatever
I
Almost
Exclusively
Use
Google
There's
Nothing
Wrong
With
It
But
When
I
Come
Home
And
I
Want
To
Look
Up
Source
Code
For
Something
Or
A
Program
I
Want
To
Download
Or
An
Application
Or
Something
Along
Those
Lines
Then
I
You
Know
What
That's
A
Great
Comparison
That
Really
Is
A
Good
Parallel
You
Are
Not
Going
To
Let
Just
One
Guy
And
His
Crazy
Opinion
Work
On
You
Know
The
Kidneys
They
Need
To
Come
Out
The
Other
Doctor
Says
No
I
Referencing
Is
Definitely
The
Way
To
Go
Yeah
That
Is
A
Great
Thing
Get
A
Second
Opinion
On
Your
Search
Results
That's
What
We're
Preaching
Here
Get
A
Second
Opinion
For
Your
Searches
There's
Nothing
Wrong
With
That
All
Right
Let's
See
Another
Email
From
Gelata
Who
Says
A
While
Ago
Actually
Episode
78
You
Mentioned
VoIP
Plus
Zorus
Equals
Elite
And
Zorus
Of
Is
The
PDA
Handheld
PDA
And
Voice
Over
IP
Combined
And
He's
Referring
To
I
Think
It
Was
I
Cringely
I
Want
To
Say
Column
PBS
Thing
About
He
Had
Interviewed
And
Was
Talking
About
This
Gentleman
I
Believe
It
Was
In
Canada
It's
Been
A
While
Episode
78
That
Was
Quite
A
While
A
Go
But
Basically
It
Was
Really
Cool
Because
This
Guy
With
His
PDA
Inside
Of
His
House
Would
Be
A
VoIP
Phone
Which
Is
What
We're
Talking
On
Right
Now
Of
Course
The
VoIP
Phone
That
I
Do
The
Show
On
But
Then
When
He
Walked
Outside
Of
The
House
The
Same
Device
Was
Outside
Of
The
VoIP
Signal
The
Wireless
Signal
And
Latched
On
To
The
Cell
Phone
Network
And
Became
A
Cell
Phone
Same
Device
No
Matter
Where
You
Went
It
Would
Use
Whatever
Was
Available
So
You
Are
Constantly
Wired
In
Constantly
Doing
The
Best
Most
Efficient
Cheapest
Thing
Like
If
You're
In
The
House
It
Will
Use
Your
VoIP
And
Not
Use
Your
Minutes
And
Charge
You
Etc
And
Just
What
A
Great
Idea
That
Has
The
Link
To
It
Yeah
So
Let's
See
Where
Did
I
Leave
Off
Okay
I
Just
Found
Out
That
BT
Are
Doing
The
Same
Thing
BT
Of
Course
Is
British
Telecom
Called
BT
Fusion
And
More
Information
Can
Be
Attained
At
www.bt
Fusion
.
BT
.com
Thought
You
Might
Like
To
Know
Since
You
And
A
Lot
Of
The
DDP
Are
VoIP
And
Asterisk
Fans
Well
Yeah
Everybody
Listening
Right
Now
To
The
Show
Go
To
That
Website
www.bt
Fusion
B-T-F-U-S-I-O-N
.bt.com
They
Are
Offering
This
As
A
Service
From
British
Telecom
Do
You
Think
There's
Any
It's
Raw
Is
There
Any
Chance
In
Hell
That
Bell
South
Is
Going
To
Offer
This
Hell
No
This
Is
Ridiculous
I
Get
So
Frustrated
At
Stories
Like
This
Because
This
Is
Fucking
Elite
This
Is
So
Cool
That
They
Would
Offer
This
At
Any
Price
Let
Alone
Hopefully
A
Competitive
I
Didn't
See
A
Price
On
There
But
Why
Are
We
Here
In
The
United
States
Behind
Everybody
Else
In
The
World
We
Can't
Even
Master
Cell
Phone
Technology
Here
Phone
Calls
Drop
Offline
All
The
Time
You
Lose
Connection
Interference
Phones
Just
Suddenly
Spontaneously
Shut
off
We
Have
Fucking
Cell
Phones
That
Explode
In
Little
Kids
Pockets
And
Burn
Their
Faces
And
Stuff
You
Know
This
Is
Ridiculous
This
Is
The
United
States
Of
America
And
We
Are
Falling
Behind
The
Rest
Of
The
Fucking
World
And
Technology
And
That's
Just
It's
Frustrating
It
A
Long
Time
Yeah
As
An
American
It's
Frustrating
Where's
Mine
Damn
It
You
Know
I
Gotta
Rant
About
This
Too
I
Been
Calling
My
Mother
For
Like
Ten
Years
And
Paying
The
Most
Ridiculous
Prices
For
International
Calls
Whether
It
Was
A
Phone
Card
Or
However
I
Was
Doing
It
I
Mean
You
Know
They
Told
Me
I
Get
120
Minutes
I
Got
60
Minutes
Skype
Blew
My
Mind
I
Am
Blown
Away
By
Skype
And
I
Feel
Like
A
Fool
For
All
These
Years
And
I
Just
You
I
Tell
So
Long
Where
It
Is
Like
Blank
Space
Now
It
Has
Been
A
Change
In
My
Life
And
I
Just
This
Technology
Needs
To
Be
Shared
By
All
And
This
Is
A
Big
Issue
And
The
United
States
Trying
To
Maintain
Their
Empire
Is
Steady
Pushing
Away
All
The
Things
That
It
Would
Need
To
Continue
Its
Dominance
And
I
Think
This
Is
One
Of
The
Reasons
We
See
Big
Time
Changes
In
The
United
States
And
Where
They're
Headed
In
The
Future
But
We
Have
To
Fight
So
Hard
For
It
I
Mean
What
You're
Talking
About
VoIP
Technology
Is
Oncoming
It
Is
Hitting
Hard
Right
Now
And
Instead
Of
Our
Government
Embracing
It
And
Supporting
It
And
Taking
The
Side
Of
Consumers
Saying
You
Now
Have
An
Option
You
Know
We're
Letting
You
Do
This
And
Where
Voice
Over
IP
Is
Taking
Off
And
Now
The
Phone
Companies
Are
Going
To
Compete
They're
Not
They're
Fighting
It
Because
They're
Paid
By
These
Big
Phone
Companies
They're
Getting
Money
Shoved
In
Their
Pockets
By
These
Big
Phone
Companies
To
Keep
Them
In
Business
These
Giant
Legalized
Monopolies
That
They
Are
Meanwhile
They're
Trying
To
Regulate
VoIP
Right
Now
Is
Great
Because
I
Don't
Have
To
Pay
A
Fucking
Franchise
Fee
A
911
Fee
A
911
Fee
For
Security
A
Connection
Fee
A
Whatever
Other
Bullshit
Yank
My
Dick
Fee
They
Want
To
Put
On
There
I
Can
Use
VoIP
Technology
And
Skip
All
This
Shit
But
The
Government
Wants
To
Start
Adding
It
On
To
VoIP
And
Stick
Their
Nose
In
Get
The
Fuck
Out
Of
Technology
Already
I
Agree
Man
Yeah
With
A
Frustrating
This
Country
The
United
States
Of
America
Instead
You
Know
This
Is
Supposed
To
Be
For
Of
The
People
For
The
People
By
The
People
And
It's
Not
It's
Of
The
Corporations
By
The
Corporations
For
The
Corporations
And
That's
The
Biggest
Problem
With
The
United
States
Right
Now
And
I'm
Not
Going
To
Into
A
Political
Thing
But
That
Is
The
God's
Honest
Truth
Instead
Of
Looking
Out
For
My
Best
Interest
As
A
Consumer
And
Giving
Me
Options
and
The
Best
Technologies
And
Making
My
Life
Better
As
A
Citizen
Of
This
Country
Which
Is
What
We're
Supposed
To
Be
Focusing
On
And
Founding
On
Instead
They're
Looking
Out
For
Big
Businesses
And
Having
Their
Own
Pockets
Padded
So
I'm
Going
to
Pull
that
I
Think
That
Was
A
Good
Way
To
Move
On
I
On
To
Some
Other
Stuff
This
Last
Email
Is
From
Nick
Says
Hey
Stankdog
I'm
A
Regular
Listener
Of
Bin
Rev
Radio
As
Well
As
Some
Of
The
Other
Shows
You
Have
On
DDP
Hack
Radio
I'm
Working
On
Getting
My
2600
Meeting
Out
There
And
Was
Wondering
If
What
The
Fuck
Was
That
Holy
Cow
I
Think
A
Cat
Hair
Just
Flew
Right
In
My
Mouth
While
I
Talking
We
Keep
Right
On
Going
Because
That's
How
We
Roll
On
Binary
Revolution
Radio
I
Just
Burned
My
Finger
With
A
Cigarette
I'm
In
The
Same
Boat
I'm
Going to
Fight
The
Pain
Oh
Man
This
Is
Gosh
This
Show
Is
So
Fun
Sometimes
Where
Was
I
Here
Before
A
Piece
Of
Hair
Flew
In
My
Mouth
I'm
Working
On
Getting
My
2600
Meeting
Out
There
And
Was
Wondering
Riverside
Perk
Park
Oh
You know
What
That's
Like
One
Of
Those
Coffee
House
Play
On
Words
Isn't
It
Riverside
Perk
1144
North
Biting
On
The
Standard
Date
Which
Is
First
Friday
Of
The
Month
If
You
Could
Do
This
It
Would
Really
Help
Us
Get
Out
There
Thanks
Very
Much
And
I
Understand
If
You
Can
I
Promise
I
Won't
Flame
You
No
I'm
Not
Going
to
Do
It
The
End
Of
The
Show
Fuck
You
I'll
Do
It
Right
Now
And
If
You
Don't
Like
It
Too
Bad
No
Joking
Aside
Of
Course
I
Absolutely
Am
Glad
To
Mention
Anybody
Wants
To
Put
Meetings
Together
Of
Any
Kind
You
Know
That's
One
Of
The
Things
About
The
Show
One
Of
My
Philosophies
In
General
Is
That
We
As
Hackers
Traditionally
Hackers
Are
Very
Solo
Creatures
They
Sit
Networking
Together
And
Working
Together
And
Sharing
Information
Me
I
Wish
The
Hacker
Community
And
That's
Why
We
Always
Use
The
Term
The
Hacker
Community
Because
We
Are
A
Community
We
Should
Be
Working
Together
And
Embracing
Each
Other
And
Getting
Information
Out
There
So
Absolutely
Anybody
Putting
Together
A
Hacker
Meeting
You
Know
We're
More
Than
Happy
To
Help
Out
So
Where
Was
I
See
Wichita
Kansas
First
Friday
Of
The
Month
Go
Check
Out
Their
Meeting
It's
At
Riverside
Perk
1144
North
Biting
B-I-T-I-N-G
And
If
Anybody
Wants
Me
To
Mention
Their
Meeting
I'll
Be
Glad
To
It's
Not
A
Problem
Email
Me
Or
Whatever
Or
If
You
Want
To
Start
You
Know
We
Recibly
Announced
That
Start
A
Ben
Rev
Meeting
Contact
Me
As
Well
And
We'll
See
If
We
Can
Hook
You
Up
Stank
I
Gotta
Say
Not
Only
The
Show
That
You
Do
But
The
Props
That
You
Give
And
The
Information
And
The
Show
Of
Solidarity
And
The
Community
That
You're
Building
Is
Really
Inspiring
To
Me
And
It's
Part
Of
The
Reason
That
I
Really
Wanted
To
Do
To
Do
Because
I
Really
Gotta
Tell
You
Know
I'm
Inspired
By
The
Letters
That
I'm
Hearing
And
I'm
Really
Interested
In
This
Community
That
You're
Building
And
The
Solidarity
That
Everyone
Has
With
One
Another
Through
Diversity
Race
Age
Creed
Class
Sexuality
You
Know
I
Can
Really
See
That
This
Is
A
Community
Of
People
Who
Are
That
Have
Loyalty
To
Each
Other
For
And
A
Morality
A
Building
Morality
You
Know
I
Just
Had
To
Say
That
Some
More
Than
Others
But
Yeah
Generally
Speaking
Hackers
Are
Surprisingly
Good
People
We're
Not
Going
To
Go
Into
The
Rant
About
What
The
Media
Makes
Us
Out
To
Be
And
How
We're
Out
To
Pillage
And
Rape
And
Deflour
Your
Daughter
And
All
That
Kind
Of
Good
Stuff
But
Most
Of
Us
Are
Good
People
Who
Just
Have
A
Perverse
Curiosity
For
Technology
That's
Pretty
Much
It
So
As
Long
As
We
Can
Share
That
With
Other
People
And
Work
On
Projects
You
Know
That's
The
Way
To
Get
Things
Done
So
Let's
Wrap
Up
The
Mailbag
With
That
And
I
Sound
Like
David
Letterman
Now
Wrapping
Up
The
Mailbag
So
Let's
Move
Into
Some
Show
And
Tell
And
I
Only
Have
A
Little
Quick
Thing
To
Mention
And
It's
An
Enigma
Machine
And
We've
Talked
About
The
Enigma
Machine
Especially
The
Episodes
With
Ilanka
Which
Is
The
Old
There
Was
An
Old
Cryptography
Machine
That
They
Used
Back
In
The
War
To
Send
Secret
Messages
And
We
Even
Had
An
Email
Recently
About
How
A
Lot
Of
The
Messages
Were
Cracked
Because
They
Left
The
Enigma
Machine
Keys
On
Default
Which
Is
Kind
of
Funny
So
We
Actually
Stumbled
Across
One
Locally
Believe
Or
Not
At
Local
McDonald's
And
The
McDonald's
Down
Here
The
Trend
Has
Been
That
They're
Trying
To
Make
Them
Themed
McDonald's
There's
Like
A
Rock
And
Roll
Theme
McDonald's
There's
Like
A
Race
Car
Theme
McDonald's
Well
This
One
Is
Spy
Theme
It's
Got
A
Bunch
Of
Old
Spy
Posters
On
The
Wall
It's
Got
Some
What
Do
You
Call
Cabinets
And
Stuff
With
Some
Memorabilia
And
Things
Like
That
In
There
Like
Old
Tricks
That
They
Would
Use
To
Hide
Messages
Like
There's
A
Pen
That
Was
Hollow
And
They
Put
A
Microfilm
Inside
Of
It
Or
Pencil
So
Only
The
Person
Would
Know
That
It's
In
There
To
Crack
It
Open
And
Pull
It
Out
There
Was
Some
Guys
Tooth
They
Had
A
Hollow
Tooth
That
They
Stick
In
Your
Mouth
And
It's
Got
A
Little
Thing
Hidden
Inside
Of
It
So
That
When
They
Check
You
Yeah
I
Hope
It
Wasn't
A
Tooth
Of
A
Customer
But
Like
A
One
Day
Exhibit
Exactly
No
This
Is
The
Whole
Theme
Of
The
Place
And
These
Are
All
Legitimate
Things
They
Had
Some
Former
FBI
CIA
KGB
Operatives
Donate
A
Lot
Of
This
Stuff
To
You
To
Add
To
The
Theme
It's
Got
Cameras
All
Over
The
Place
Like
Filming
All
The
Time
So
Like
And
They
Have
A
Bunch
Of
Monitors
You
Can
Look
At
Pretty
Much
Any
Corner
Of
The
Restaurant
Covered
With
Cameras
So
It's
Kind
Of
A
Neat
Theme
And
One
Of
The
Displays
They
Have
Is
The
Enigma
Machine
And
It
Does
Look
Pretty
Real
I
Think
It
Is
Valid
So
Our
For
You
I
Mean
Obviously
Talk
About
Anything
That
You
Been
Working
On
Or
Interested
In
Lately
But
I
Mean
One
Of
The
Reasons
We've
Had
Problems
Or
Been
Having
Some
Timing
Issues
Getting
Time
To
Record
Is
Because
You've
Been
At
School
You've
Been
Dealing
With
Some
School
Stuff
Which
Is
Over
Now
Right
Yeah
It's
Recently
Over
I
Had
A
Real
Checkered
Life
Man
I
Hustler
And
I
Was
A
Street
Cat
And
I
Did
A
Lot
Of
Mal
Content
Type
Of
Things
And
I
Finally
Realized
That
I
Should
Make
A
Difference
And
I
Had
A
Responsibility
And
I
Should
Go
To
School
And
So
I
Took
A
GED
And
I
Tested
Into
Basic
English
Where
I
Had
To
Write
A
Kids
I
Worked
With
Child
Care
And
After
School
Programs
Started
Just
Doing
Like
After
Care
For
Ages
5
To
10
And
Then
It
Moved
On
To
At
Risk
Kids
I
Never
Like
That
Cliche
But
That
Is
How
They
Labeled
And
After
School
Programs
Two
To
Six
Teaching
Basic
Reading
Skills
And
Math
Skills
So
I
Been
Doing
That
For
A
Long
Time
And
I
Finally
Transferred
To
Getting
My
Applications
In
For
Graduate
School
To
Get
A
Ph.D.
In
Philosophy
Or
Sociology
And
Become
A
Teacher
Because
I
Really
Feel
That
The
Future
Is
Going
To
Be
With
The
Minds
Of
The
Youth
It
Is
Really
Difficult
To
Change
Older
People's
Minds
And
I
See
That
The
Generation
That
Is
In
Place
Now
Has
Got
A
Real
Particular
Way
Of
Thinking
Things
And
I
Feel
That
I
To
Jobs
Sometimes
And
Going
To
School
And
Trying
To
Bust
Us
Out
Yeah
And
I'm
Sure
You
Will
I
Have
No
Doubt
That
You
Will
Just
From
What
I
Know
I
Know
You're
A
Motivated
Person
I
Know
You
Absolutely
Will
And
You
Know
The
Thing
Is
That
I
Think
There
Are
A
Lot
You
Know
One
Thing
About
Hackers
Is
And
I'll
Speak
Very
Generally
Of
Course
There's
I
Mean
I'm
Just
Going
To
Say
It
I
Mean
If
It
Comes
Across
As
Egotistical
Or
Whatever
Generally
Hackers
Are
Smarter
People
They're
Smarter
Than
Most
Of
Their
Peers
You
Know
Maybe
I'm
An
Ass
For
Saying
That
But
Quite
Honestly
I
Honestly
Believe
That
I
Think
That
Because
I
Hear
A lot
Of
Stories
And
I
Guess
This
Is
Getting
Kind
Of
A
Very
Special
Episode
Of
Ben
Radio
We
Need
Some
Sappy
Music
In
The
Background
But
You
Know
What
I've
Heard
People
I've
Heard
Seen
People
In
IRC
Talking
About
You
Know
How
Bored
They
Get
In
School
They're
Sitting
In
School
Like
Writing
Programs
Because
Whatever
Is
Going
On
Is
Boring
Them
You
Know
They're
Not
Learning
They're
Sitting
And
They're
Going
Through
The
Motions
They're
Not
Challenged
You
Know
They're
Not
Being
If
You're
Bored
By
It
I
Don't
Know
A lot
Of
People
Think
That
The
Solution
Is
To
Drop
Out
And
Get
Their
GED
Right
You
Know
Some
People
Even
Say
They
Want
To
Drop
Out
Early
And
Get
Their
GED
In
10th
Or
11th
Grade
So
They
Can
Start
College
Early
I
Really
Don't
Even
Think
That's
The
Way
To
Go
I
Mean
College
Is
Definitely
Something
That
We
Frequently
Sometimes
Not
By
Choice
You'll
Have
To
Change
And
Alter
Your
Path
In
Life
But
You
Should
Always
Try
To
Be
On
That
Path
Of
Enlightenment
As
Corny
As
That
May
Sound
You
Should
Always
Be
Out
There
Trying
To
Better
Yourself
And
Thereby
Bettering
The
World
You
Know
Dropping
Out
And
Leaving
And
Running
Away
Thinking
You
Can
Do
Everything
Better
Without
This
Education
Without
Going
Through
These
Is
Not
Exactly
The
Way
To
Go
I
Mean
You
Really
Do
Want
To
Get
Your
Education
I
Mean
And
I
Think
It's
A
Great
I
I'm
Really
Proud
That
You
Came
Out
And
Just
Say
That
You
Real
You
Said
Hey
I
Decided
I
Need
To
Go
To
College
I
Think
It's
Going
To
I'll
Be
Drive
And
Ambition
And
I
Hope
That
Most
Hackers
Don't
Get
So
Disenfranchised
With
Education
Maybe
Based
On
High
School
Bad
High
School
Experience
Or
Whatever
That
They
Just
Give
Up
And
Think
That
It's
Not
Necessary
Absolutely
College
Is
Necessary
And
You
Will
Always
Get
Farther
With
An
Education
Of
Some
Kind
Than
Without
Right
And
I
Want
To
Also
Mention
That
My
Brother
Who
Had
A
Child
When
He
Was
Really
Young
Went
To
A
Professional
School
A
Technical
School
And
Learned
Computer
Science
Yeah
Absolutely
And
He
Excelled
In
His
Field
And
He's
A
Network
Administrator
And
It's
Been
A
Real
Coup
For
Our
Family
To
Have
This
Economic
Money
Coming
In
And
Him
To
Get
This
Education
And
I
Really
Agree
With
You
Whether
Or
Not
It's
This
Academic
Dream
Of
The
Ph.D.
And
The
So
If
You're
Going
To
Go
To
A
Good
Technical
School
And
You're
Going
To
Glean
A
Lot
From
Their
Programs
Then
You
Can
Go
On
And
Do
Whatever
You
Need
To
Do
But
Definitely
We
Have
These
Sources
Of
Education
And
They
Need
To
Be
Utilized
Community
College
Is
Excellent
For
That
Oh
Yeah
I
Couldn't
Afford
A
Full
College
I
Went
To
Community
College
To
Start
Off
With
Made
Sure
I
Got
An
Associates
Degree
So
That
I
You
Know
If
I
Wasn't
Able
To
Afford
To
Go
The
Rest
Of
The
Way
At
Least
I
Had
That
To
Fall
Back
On
And
Then
I
Took
Night
Classes
And
Struggled
I
Could
Only
Afford
One
Or
Two
Classes
At
A
Time
And
I
Was
Lucky
For
A while
There
Where
My
Mother
Worked
At
A
That
Would
Pay
For
Her
Family
To
Go
To
School
So
I
Got
A
Couple
Free
Classes
That
Way
So
That
Helped
Out
A
Lot
And
Then
You
Know
It's
Like
You
Do
What
You
Got
To
Do
You
Know
I
Didn't
Need
Tools
To
Fight
The
System
And
We're
Going
To
Need
Tools
For
Revolution
That
You
Know
What
That
I
Can't
I
Can't
Put
It
Any
Better
Than
I
Really
Can
I
Think
That's
Fantastic
Way
To
Put
It
And
You
Know
What
I
Just
I
Have
Nothing
But
Respect
For
Anybody
Whether
They're
In
Hacking
Whether
They're
In
Music
Whether
They're
In
Anything
Any
Human
Being
That's
Out
There
Working
I
Mean
There
Was
A
Couple
Times
You
Know
Can
You
Record
Tonight
No
I'm
Working
A
10
Hour
Shift
You
Know
You're
Out
There
Working
And
Going
To
School
Getting
That
Education
And
Making
Music
You
Know
So
Yeah
That's
I got
Nothing
But
Respect
For
Anybody
In
Any
Situation
Like
That
Whether
They're
You
Know
On
The
Radio
Or
Not
So
Anyway
Let's
Get out
Of
The
Sappy
Corny
And
I've
Talked
To
Your
Brother
On
The
Before
Too
We
Worked
Out
Some
Of
The
Technical
Aspect
Of
The
Sites
So
That
All
Went
Fairly
Smooth
I
Think
We
Have
One
Little
Typo
Problem
That's
Right
That's
Right
All
Right
So
Let's
See
You
Know
What
I
Guess
We'll
Kind
Of
Just
Transition
To
Our
Main
Topic
Tonight
Which
Is
Basically
The
Music
Industry
And
What
It
Means
To
I'll
Say
Hackers
But
Let's
Just
Say
People
Like
Us
People
Who
Do
Not
Have
The
Connections
To
The
Inside
Music
Industry
Either
Because
We
Aren't
In
The
Just
Simply
Morally
Disagree
With
And
Don't
Want
To
Get
Involved
With
That
We
Just
Believe
There's
A
Different
Way
You
Got
It
So
Actually
Let's
You
Kind
Of
Just
Talked
A
Little
Bit
About
Your
History
But
How
You
Say
You
Want
To
Go
Into
Teaching
And
Educating
Children
And
Changing
Things
Like
That
But
What
About
How
Did
You
Get
Into
Music
When
Did
Music
Come
In
Which
Was
First
Music
First
And
Then
You
Went
To
The
Education
Or
Music
First
I
Had
A
Real
Musical
Father
And
I
Grew
Up
To
Mostly
Soul
Music
My
Father
Was
A
New
Yorker
From
The
East
Coast
So
I
Grew
Up
To
The
Commodores
And
Cooling
The
Gang
And
Reggae
Pop
Barley
My
Father
Was
An
Audiophile
He
Would
Buy
Records
He
So
I
All
That
Stuff
Was
Just
Too
Much
For
Me
So
Of
Course
Rap
Music
Hip
Hop
Changed
My
World
Because
Of
Course
It
Was
Lower
Class
People
Utilizing
The
Tools
That
They
Had
Which
Weren't
Guitars
And
Synthesizers
And
Keyboards
Which
We
Didn't
Have
Access
To
Any
Of
This
The
Idea
That
You
Could
Actually
Sample
Music
Take
Little
Bits
Of
Music
And
Construct
Beats
And
Not
Have
To
Construct
Them
From
Nothing
Or
Have
To
Learn
To
Read
Music
And
Do
All
Of
These
Things
That
It
Took
To
The
Studio
Work
Music
Was
So
Protected
At
That
Time
You
Had
To
Be
A
Professional
It
Was
A
Closed
Industry
And
Rap
Music
To
Me
Signified
And
Later
Electronica
Of
Course
Which
Followed
In
The
Footsteps
Of
Hip
Hop
In
Its
Completely
Digital
Form
Music
Not
Happening
To
In
The
Early
80s
Late
70s
Really
Blew
Me
Away
And
Having
This
Audiophile
Father
Who
Brought
Home
Grandmaster
Flash
The
Message
Was
The
Turning
Point
For
Me
To
Realize
That
There
Was
A
Music
Source
That
You
Could
Talk
The
Words
Were
A
Musical
And
That
The
Music
Wasn't
Too
Hard
To
Find
And
We
Could
Make
It
This
Is
Something
We
Could
Construct
In
The
Ghetto
Right
And
The
Thing
Is
There
Is
A
Bond
With
Hackers
The
Mindset
Is
Exactly
The
Same
We
Can't
Afford
To
Buy
The
Top
End
Machines
All
The
Time
We
Can't
Afford
To
Buy
The
New
Mac
G5
Super
Thin
20
Inch
Laptop
Whatever
We
Got
To
Make
Do
With
What
We
Have
So
You
Mention
And
Also
Just
To
Clarify
You
Mention
You
Said
From
A
Lower
Class
Well
Hackers
Generally
Either
Because
The
Whole
Fuck
The
System
Thing
Alienates
Them
And
They
Don't
Go
Into
Corporate
Jobs
They
Don't
Go
Into
Money
Making
Or
Whatever
Or
Simply
The
Age
I
So
There
Is
Definitely
A
Bond
There
So
You
Said
That
Happened
Before
So
What
Like
How
Did
You
Get
How
Did
You
Get
Started
I
Mean
What
Was
The
First
Track
That
You
Ever
Did
And
How
Did
You
Go
About
I
I'm
Picturing
Here
Are
You
Like
Out
On
The
Street
Corner
You
Know
Just
Freestyling
Lyrics
And
Then
Go
Home
And
Try
To
Record
Them
On
An
Old
Linoleum
And
Beatbox
We
Had
Like
A
Whole
Little
Crew
We
Had
The
Middle
Class
White
Guy
Had
The
Boom
Box
And
All
Of
Us
Were
The
Diverse
Group
Who
Had
All
The
Talents
One
Beatbox
One
Rapper
We
Had
A
Break
Dancer
And
Then
Recording
It
Came
About
I
Guess
Using
Answering
Machines
Because
At
That
Point
They
Were
Accessible
You
Seriously
The
First
Recordings
Were
On
Literally
On
The
Greetings
Machine
We
Just
Do
Greetings
18
Seconds
Of
A
Track
That
Is
So
Awesome
To
Hear
It
Back
Just
The
Process
Of
Actually
Hearing
Our
Voices
And
Getting
Used
To
Rapping
And
The
Music
And
Recording
Wow
I
Never
Heard
That
I
Never
Heard
A
Story
Like
That
Before
I
Had
No
Idea
That
Is
So
Funny
And
Then
A
Guy
In
Neighborhood
Got
A
Four
Track
Stank
Which
Analog
Using
A
Typical
Cassette
You
Could
Buy
A
Special
Cassette
But
You
Could
Also
Use
A
Typical
Audio
Cassette
And
It
Was
Just
Basically
Four
Track
Lots
Of
Knops
Pretty
Limited
And
You
Still
Need
To
Had
A
Microphone
And
A
Beat
But
That
Was
A
Big
Jump
In
Technology
When
The
Four
Track
Came
Around
$250
$300
And
That
Became
Accessible
Right
So
At
This
Point
In
The
Game
Did
You
Envision
Or
Did
You
Think
That
This
Was
Going
To
Be
A
Millionaire
Did
You
Go
Looking
For
Trying
To
Get
Signed
Somewhere
And
Stuff
Like
That
Or
Great
Question
No
I
Didn't
Stank
Because
I
Understood
And
I
Saw
That
Those
Wealthy
Friends
That
I
Had
I
Grew
Up
In
The
East
Bay
And
I
Grew
Up
In
A
Hip
Hop
Society
Environment
Where
Digital
Underground
And
A lot
Of
These
Bay Area
Artists
Were
My
Age
Growing
Up
And
So
I
Got
To
Go
See
Like
Shock
G
Studio
And
I
Had
My
Wealthier
Friends
And
I
Would
See
Like
They
Had
$10,000
Worth
Of
Samplers
And
Mini
Machines
And
I
Couldn't
Ever
See
Myself
Being
Able
To
Afford
That
So
I
Totally
Thought
Unless
You're
So
Talented
You're
Like
Tupac
And
You
Could
Go
To
People's
Studios
And
They'll
Pay
For
Your
Studio
Time
You're
Never
Going
To
Have
A
Professional
Sound
You're
Just
Going
To
Be
Mired
In
Like
You
Know
Underground
Status
And
Like
A
Bad
Audit
You
Wrapping
In
My
Bathroom
Basically
To
A
Four
Track
Right
And
Did
You
Take
Those
Tapes
And
Like
Try
To
Bootleg
Sell
Them
On
Computer
Came
And
I
Finally
Started
To
Realize
That
There
Was
Going
To
Be
A
Change
Where
All
Of
These
External
Tools
Were
Going
To
Be
Able
To
Be
Synthesized
By
The
Computer
The
Samplers
The
Midis
The
Voice
Changers
The
Recordings
And
I
Started
To
Sense
That
I
Started
To
Finally
Feel
Optimism
That
This
Could
Be
Something
Different
For
Me
And
Of
Course
The
Internet
In
Its
Distribution
Out
Right
Yeah
And
It's
Like
Every
That's
Why
Like
Even
I
Talked
About
Earlier
We've
Got
People
From
The
UK
From
England
From
Portugal
I've
Got
An
Email
From
Just
All
These
Places
That
It
Just
Blows
Your
Mind
You
Know
At
This
Global
Mind
Blowing
Yeah
I mean
I've
Got
Emails
From
South
Africa
I
Got
An
Email
From
A
56
Year
Old
Woman
In
South
Africa
From
Argentina
From
Australia
I mean
I'm
Blown
Away
And
Each
One
That
I
Get
Stank
It
Fills
My
Heart
With
Love
And
I
Just
Feel
That
I
Just
Thank
The
Internet
Again
For
This
Tool
That
I
Have
To
Be
Able
To
Reach
Somebody
A
Thousand
Miles
Away
And
To
Hear
Me
And
Be
Able
To
Download
My
Music
For
Free
And
It
Didn't
Cost
Them
A
Thing
And
Other
People
Can
Find
Change
Our
Lives
Continually
Forever
Yeah
I've
Said
On
The
Show
Before
Too
And
People
Kind
Have
A
Little
Jab
At
Me
About
It
For
Being
Kind
Of
Corny
Or
Whatever
But
It
Really
Touches
You
When
You
Realize
That
Someone
In
These
Remote
Places
Is
Listening
And
Enjoying
Something
That
You
Created
It's
Just
A
Feeling
That
You
Can't
Even
Put
Into
Word
To
Describe
It
Really
Is
It's
So
Obviously
Your
Interest
In
This
Preceded
The
Interweb
The
Global
Interweb
So
When
The
Internet
Came
Around
Of
Course
That
Changed
A
Lot
Of
Things
When
The
Internet
Became
Something
That
You
Had
Potential
To
It
Even
At
This
Stage
Where
You
Still
Had
No
Interest
In
Going
For
A
Label
Do
You
Have
An
Agent
Or
Anything
Like
That
No
I
Never
Did
And
I
Was
Really
Fearful
Because
Being
So
Close
To
Hip
Hop
I
Was
Friends
With
A
Lot
Of
These
Young
Guys
That
Got
Swept
Up
And
Eaten
Up
Exploited
Raped
And
Sent
Back
Packing
You
Know
A
Lot
Of
These
Young
Guys
Were
Promised
Big
Deals
I
Actually
Knew
Some
Of
These
You
Know
There
Was
A
Huge
Explosion
At
East
Bay
Hip
Hop
Around
The
A
Couple
Tracks
They
Would
Keep
Them
For
As
Long
As
Possible
As
Long
As
They
Generated
Money
And
Then
Cut
Them
Off
As
Soon
As
Possible
Never
Give
Them
Another
Deal
And
So
I
Watched
That
And
I
Watched
People
Have
To
Change
Their
Music
And
Their
Creativity
And
The
Way
That
They
Said
Things
Just
To
Get
That
One
Deal
And
Still
Get
Screwed
Over
And
Right
Well
And
You
Know
What
You
Jumped
On
Where
A
Lot
Of
Other
Musicians
Are
Coming
On
Now
Again
It
Is
Important
To
Note
That
You
Kind
Of
Your
Interest
Preceded
The
Internet
You
Know
So
You
Were
Already
Into
This
And
Learning
A
Lot
About
The
Direction
You
Wanted
To
Take
And
Deciding
What
It
Meant
To
You
And
Then
The
Internet
Came
As
A
New
Tool
Exists
And
It
Is
Not
Really
Taking
Advantage
Of
It
In
A
Negative
Way
But
You
Know
They
Have
Opportunities
There
That
I
Think
Are
Very
Important
To
Talk
About
For
Example
You
Now
Looking
Back
Now
What
Exactly
What
Kind
Of
Options
Like
Let's
Say
Somebody
Is
Listening
Right
Now
And
You
Know
There
Are
Definitely
People
Listening
Right
Now
That
Are
Interested
In
Pursuing
Music
Whether
It
Be
For
Financial
Gain
Or
Whatever
If
They
Want
To
That's
Fine
But
What
If
Somebody
Is
Listening
Who
Just
Wants
To
Make
Music
And
Share
It
With
People
How
Do
They
Get
Started
I
Know
We
Have
We
Have
Conversations
In
The
About
MP3
Where
Do
They
Start
I
Mean
What
Do
You
How
Do
You
Actually
Get
Started
Doing
Even
From
A
Technical
Standpoint
Like
Not
Everybody
Has
A
Studio
In
Their
House
Okay
Well
To
Begin
With
Thanks
To
The
Hackers
And
Crackers
There
Is
Software
In
The
Right
Places
If
You
Need
It
For
The
Purposes
Of
Recording
And
Software
Like
Cakewalk
And
Sound
Foundry
And
Cool
Edit
Which
Has
Been
Bought
Now
By
Adobe
It
Is
Now
Called
Adobe
Edition
Are
All
Simple
To
Use
And
Easy
Interfaces
And
Not
The
Most
Complicated
And
Powerful
Of
Programs
But
Are
All
Easy
To
Learn
And
Like
I
Said
Have
An
Easy
Interface
And
Like
I
Said
You
Can
Find
Them
Out
There
For
A
Fraction
Of
The
Cost
If
You
Know
Where
To
Look
And
Secondly
A
Sound
Card
Most
Computers
Base
Like
Dell
And
Those
I
Not
Giving
You
The
Best
Sound
Card
So
I
Started
With
An
Echo
Layla
Which
Was
A
Very
Pricey
Sound
Card
But
At
The
Time
We
Were
Really
Pushing
The
Digital
I
Think
It
Was
24
Bit
And
It
Was
$700
And
I
Had
That
For
Many
Years
And
It
Gave
Me
Really
Good
Sound
And
It
Finally
Blew
Out
And
I
Had
To
The
Industry
Inefficient
Top
Notch
Powerful
24
Bit
Sound
Cards
That
Would
Work
Really
Efficiently
Have
Inns
And
Outs
I
Think
They
Just
A
PCI
Slot
And
They
Got
It
It's
An
Out
Box
And
They
Got
Two
Or
Three
Two
Inns
Two
Outs
And
That
Would
Work
Pretty
Good
For
Microphone
Inputs
And
Guitar
Inputs
And
Then
It
Digitly
Goes
Straight
Into
Sound
Foundry
Cakewalk
Or
Cool
Edit
Slash
Adobe
Audition
And
It's
Digital
Right
Into
Your
Computer
And
Just
Going
Through
The
Process
Of
That
And
Practicing
It
Will
Really
Enlighten
You
To
How
Things
Have
Changed
With
Final
Edit
Pro
And
The
Ability
For
Videographers
And
Video
Makers
And
Documentarians
To
Access
This
Software
Is
Just
Great
And
Now
We're
Able
To
Like
You
Said
In
The
Comforts
Of
Our
Own
Homes
Have
The
For
Efficient
Prices
And
Also
Make
Video
I
Had
To
Mention
That
Because
Right
Along
With
Audio
Technology
Is
Video
Technology
Right
And
Something
We
Believe
Is
The
Next
Thing
Coming
To
With
Hack
TV
That
We're
Working
On
And
Pushing
Out
There
Definitely
Is
It
You
Know
It's
Getting
To
The
Point
Financially
Where
You
Still
Have
To
Drop
A
Little
Coin
Let's
Be
Honest
It's
Not
All
Free
Exactly
Like
Getting
Back
For
Example
To
Software
There
Are
Options
Out
There
And
I
Think
Anybody
Listening
To
This
Show
Like
I
Said
Hackers
Will
Get
It
Done
They
Know
What
To
Do
Where
To
Look
What
They've
Got
To
Find
What
They
Need
To
Do
I
I'm
Recording
With
Audacity
As
I've
Mentioned
On
The
Show
Before
Which
Is
Free
Software
It
Would
Never
Do
For
Music
You
Know
I
Mean
I
Guess
I
Could
Make
It
Do
Like
I
Said
You
Do
What
You
Have
To
I
Could
Make
It
You
Know
Some
Music
With
This
But
It's
Not
Best
Suited
For
Music
So
There
Are
Other
Options
And
Yeah
A
Little
Bit
Of
Research
A
Little
Bit
Of
Looking
Around
Will
Provide
That
Now
As
Far
As
The
Sound
Card
So
Software
Aside
Hardware
Wise
You
Mentioned
The
Sound
Card
How
What
Is
The
Lowest
Price
The
Cheapest
That
Somebody
Can
Get
In
Right
Now
If
They
Are
Listening
To
The
Show
And
They
Say
Okay
All
That's
Well
And
Good
Zorro
But
What
Do
I
Buy
I
Mean
How
Much
If
You
Were
Just
Trying
To
Make
Something
And
A
Lot
Of
The
Music
That
I
Hear
From
People
From
Other
Countries
That's
Just
Really
Done
A
Standard
Sound
Card
That
Comes
In
Your
Computer
They
Are
Much
Better
Than
They
Used
To
Be
Most
People
Have
A
Good
Enough
Sound
Card
To
Basically
Plug
A
Mic
Directly
In
And
I
Think
That
You
Know
The
Sound
Plug
Itself
Is
A
Three
Quarter
And
Not
A
Half
Inch
Cord
So
You
Just
Put
Your
Mic
Actually
Get
A
Smaller
Mic
Which
Is
Not
A
Big
One
With
A
Big
Cord
And
Plug
It
In
And
I
Guess
Just
Having
The
Proper
Software
With
The
Sound
Card
That
Most
People
Have
With
Their
Comp
Would
Work
Fine
Wow
So
Just
Access
To
Some
Of
These
Programs
That
I
Mentioned
Like
I
Said
Finding
Them
In
A
Demonstration
Capacity
Is
Not
A
Problem
And
You
Can
Try
Them
Out
And
See
Which
One
You
Like
The
Most
And
Stank
I
Like
This
Question
Because
You
Mentioned
About
Hacking
And
What
You
Do
Every
Day
And
I
Really
Like
That
You
Are
Determined
And
You
Like
To
Tell
Your
Fan
Base
And
Your
Listeners
That
You
Work
Every
Day
And
Something
I
Tried
To
Do
With
This
Technology
And
This
Information
Is
I
Turned
So
Many
Young
Guys
Who
Wanted
To
Have
Studios
On
To
This
Software
And
How
Easy
It
Is
And
So
A
Lot
Of
Young
Guys
Who
Wanted
To
Be
Musicians
In
The
Five
Or
Ten
Years
I
Been
Doing
This
Have
Learned
To
Use
These
Programs
And
Are
Excelling
In
Them
And
Are
Making
Wonderful
Music
So
If
Anybody
Out
There
Is
Interested
In
Doing
This
It's
Not
Hard
To
Do
And
It's
Something
That's
In
Your
Grasp
Like
A lot
Of
The
Nerd
Core
That
Hopefully
A
Sound
Card
On
Your
Computer
If
Not
You
Might
Go
Out
And
Spend
50
On
A
Sound
Card
What
About
The
Microphone
Is
There
Different
You
Know
Are
The
Different
Qualities
From
The
Microphone
And
Second
To
That
Also
Hardware
Wise
Does
The
Software
Replace
The
Need
For
Mixers
And
Sound
Boards
That
Kind
Of
Stuff
I
Mean
Is
It
Pretty
Much
All
Software
Based
Now
I
Mean
It's
All
The
Mixing
Down
All
The
Special
Performance
Enhancers
Are
All
Given
Into
The
Program
And
What
You
Mentioned
Earlier
The
Microphone
Has
Always
Been
Our
Bane
Especially
Me
Just
Being
A
Hip
Hop
Spoken
Word
Type
It's
The
Voice
That's
So
Important
And
So
Having
The
Digitized
Process
That
The
Sound
Card
Gives
You
Especially
If
You
Buy
One
For
50
Or
100
And
Like
I
Don't
Mean
To
Brand
Name
But
I
Had
Success
With
This
M
Audio
Worked
Really
Well
Plug
And
Play
Had
No
Issues
With
It
Which
I
Was
Happy
For
And
You
Know
It's
Really
Easy
To
Do
And
I
Like
What
You're
Saying
That
People
Listening
To
This
Show
Should
Know
That
They
Can
Go
In
The
Next
Hour
And
Figure
This
Out
With
The
Right
Programs
And
The
Hardware
This
Is
Easy
Yeah
And
They
Can
Do
It
They
Can
Sit
Down
With
A
Even
If
Let's
Use
Lowest
End
Scenario
Cheap
Lab
Tech
Mic
For
Ten
Bucks
Plastic
Plug
It
Into
Your
Sound
Card
Record
That
Direct
Digital
In
And
Then
Start
Playing
And
Manipulating
It
With
The
Software
And
You
Can
Generate
Something
And
At
Least
Enough
That
You
Can
Listen
To
It
And
Start
Playing
With
It
And
Say
You
Know
What
I
Don't
Like
The
Sound
Of
That
It
It's
Too
Tinny
Or
It's
Too
I
Need
A
Better
Microphone
Or
I've
Got
You'll
Hear
Background
Noise
And
You'll
Start
To
Adjust
And
Fix
That
And
Learn
As
You
Go
Along
Exactly
Right
And
I
Only
Support
What
You're
Saying
Is
To
Give
People
The
Benefit
And
Inspiration
That
This
Is
Not
Difficult
And
If
Anything
If
That's
What's
Been
Stopping
You
I
Love
That
You're
Saying
That
If
What's
Been
Stopping
You
Is
Access
To
Technology
Access
To
These
Programs
Or
The
Information
How
To
Do
It
It's
Really
Easy
To
Do
As
Well
As
You
Should
Go
Into
The
Search
Engines
Because
There's
A lot
Of
People
Who
Have
Made
Home
Studios
And
Really
Good
Information
Yeah
And
You
Know
I'm
Going
To
Jump
Ahead
I
Was
Going
To
Talk
About
This
Later
But
I'm
Going
To
Jump
Ahead
Since
You
Mentioned
Nerdcore
A second
Ago
What
Kind
Of
What
Kind
Of
Music
Not
And
If
It's
Not
Nerdcore
That's
Fine
But
Like
Who
Are
Some
Of
Your
Favorite
Artists
What
Do
You
Listen
To
What
CD
Do
You
To
Right
Now
Who
Are
Your
Favorites
I'm
Really
Political
And
Although
What
I
Preach
Is
Definitely
A
Little
Bit
More
Collective
I
Listen
To
Really
Radical
Hip
Hop
Artists
So
I'm
Listening
To
Immortal
Technique
Who
Is
A
Peruvian
Guy
From
New
York
Who
Is
Really
Incredible
The
Lyricist
He's
Amazing
He
Did
Three
Years
In
Prison
He
Came
Out
As
Battle
Rapper
And
He
Started
To
Record
Music
Their
Black
Separatist
Group
I
Really
Appreciate
Their
Politics
And
Their
Message
It's
Not
Necessarily
Meant
For
Everyone
But
I
Would
Definitely
Give
It
A
Listen
Their
Musical
Value
What
They're
Saying
They're
Definitely
On
The
Right
Page
I
Like
Talib
And
Most
Deaf
Also
My
Favorite
Artist
Yeah
I
Like
Most
Deaf
A lot
Yeah
So
Sabak
Is
A
Guy
From
Non
Fiction
And
He's
Come
Out
With
His
Own
Well
What
About
Do
You
Listen
To
Non
Hip
Hop
Do
You
Listen
To
Rock
Do
You
Listen
To
Older
Classic
Rock
Do
You
Like
Any
Of
The
New
Bands
Anything
Outside
Of
Hip
Hop
I
I'm
Actually
Really
Not
Feeling
Music
These
Days
And
I
Like
That
You
Mention
I
Find
My
Soul
Is
In
The
Old
Classic
Music
So
I
Still
Listen
To
Some
Classic
Rock
And
Classic
R
Be
And
Those
Musicians
What's
The
Cliché
That
Really
Felt
It
But
The
Modern
Scene
To
Me
Seems
To
Be
Muddled
And
You
Mentioned
Earlier
About
Living
In
A
Corporate
World
Living
In
A
Corporate
America
That
The
Music
Industry
To
Me
Really
Reflects
What
You're
Saying
You're
Implying
That
It's
A
Corporate
Music
Industry
And
I'm
Bored
By
It
Even
The
Underground
Now
There's
Just
Big
Argument
Between
What
Really
Is
Underground
Is
It
Somebody
Who's
Not
Making
Too
Much
Money
Or
Somebody
Who's
Signed
To
A
Small
Company
What
Really
Defines
Underground
To
Me
An
Underground
Artist
Is
Somebody
Who
Gives
Their
Music
Away
For
Free
And
KRS
One
Has
A
Line
That
Says
You're
Not
Underground
Unless
You're
Free
So
To
Me
That's
The
Way
I
Defined
Underground
Is
Some
Of
Nerd
Core
Have
You
Heard
Anything
From
MC
Front
A
Lot
Yeah
I
Checked
Out
MC
Front
A
Lot
I
Listened
To
A
Song
About
Homosexuality
Because
I'm
In
The
Bay Area
So
I
Liked
It
I
Of
Course
Stank
I
Went
To
His
Political
Songs
And
So
I
Really
Dug
It
I'm
Going
To
Go
Back
And
Listen
To
His
More
Fun
Songs
And
I
Checked
Out
MC
Like
The
Websites
I
Like
The
Way
That
They're
Promoting
Themselves
And
Presenting
Themselves
I
Support
Every
Facet
Of
Hip
Hop
Although
I
Myself
Represent
A
Political
Click
Basically
Right
I
Really
Support
Nerd
Core
I
Like
It
It's
Another
It's
Going
To
Definitely
Add
Something
To
The
Pot
Something
Positive
To
The
Pot
Well
You
Certainly
Have
That
In
Common
That
You
Believe
In
The
Distribution
And
Things
Like
That
So
That's
Why
I
Was
Curious
How
You
Have
You
Had
Any
Experience
With
It
And
What
Information
Have
You
Ever
Heard
Of
Song
Fight
Dot
Org
That's
Another
Popular
Site
That
I
Go
To
Quite
A
Bit
That's
People
That
Are
It's
Basically
They
Give
You
A
Theme
They'll
Just
Make
Up
Random
Themes
And
You
Have
A
Week
To
Put
Together
A
Song
Around
Whatever
That
Top
And
That's
Where
MC
Frontalot
Has Been
Hugely
Successful
In
That
Going
On
There
But
There's
Been
A
Lot
Of
People
And
It's
All
Free
Music
And
It's
What
I
Like
About
It
Is
That
It's
Pure
It's
The
People
Doing
Music
Because
They
Like
Doing
Music
You
Know
And
Because
They
Want
To
Share
It
And
Want
It
To
Be
Free
So
Have
You
Ever
I
Haven't
Wanted
To
Preach
About
This
Particular
Topic
But
I
Think
This
Is
The
Point
To
Say
It
And
You
Know
I
Although
I
Support
Nerdcore
And
I
Support
This
Concept
Of
Song
Fight
I
Really
Want
To
Tell
Everybody
That
I
Myself
Feel
That
As
A
Musician
And
A
Creator
That
There
Is
A
Responsibility
To
The
World
And
If
The
World
Was
Doing
Really
Good
I
Think
It
Would
Be
Time
To
Play
But
I
Don't
Sense
The
World
Is
Good
And
I
Don't
See
The
World
Is
Doing
Good
I
See
Death
On
My
TV
I
See
Oppression
I
See
A
Lot
Of
Sadness
And
Pain
And
Guilt
And
Death
And
Repression
And
Exploitation
And
All
These
Negative
Terms
And
So
I
Would
Really
Urge
Everyone
In
Addition
To
Doing
What
You
Doing
Of
Course
That
What
You
Doing
Is
Fine
But
I
Would
Really
Urge
You
In
A
Sense
Of
Responsibility
And
As
Your
Comrade
And
Friend
To
Do
Something
Good
For
The
World
To
Put
Responsibility
On
Your
Shoulders
And
Make
Something
That
Is
Of
To
Others
And
Really
Is
Going
To
Make
This
World
A
Better
Place
Because
We're
In
Some
Serious
Times
Now
And
So
That's
Just
My
Serious
Note
But
I
Really
Like
Song
Fight
Org
And
It
Really
Is
A
Wonderful
Way
Of
Showing
People's
Creative
Abilities
But
Like
I
Said
I
Would
Like
To
See
Those
Topics
Have
A
Stronger
And
More
Direct
Responsibility
But
That's
Just
Me
And
That's
My
Job
And
If
You
Want
To
Hear
All
My
Preaching
Go
Download
The
Five
Albums
I
Have
At
This
Night
You
Know
Yeah
And
You
Know
And
That
But
The
Great
Thing
Is
I
Do
Agree
With
That
In
Principle
That
You
Know
Put
Up
Or
Shut
Up
Do
Something
Do
Something
To
Change
The
World
Do
Something
To
Be
Productive
No
Matter
Which
Side
Of
Point
Of
You
May
Stand
On
A
Particular
Topic
Go
Out
And
Like
On
Song
Fight
Just
To
Use
This
As
An
Example
Not
That
I
Care
Or
Have
Any
Ties
To
This
Site
Or
Anything
But
Go
Out
There
And
They
May
Make
Up
Whatever
The
Topic
Is
But
If
You
Can
Turn
It
Into
Something
To
Educate
People
Into
Your
Cause
And
Your
Belief
And
Your
Political
Views
Or
Whatever
If
That's
You
Taking
Advantage
Of
That
Opportunity
To
Change
Things
And
To
Address
Topics
You
Know
That's
Kind
Of
We
Very
Much
Support
Positivity
Change
By
Making
Positive
Contributions
Of
Some
Sort
Day
Long
But
Do
Something
So
I
Really
I
Really
Back
That
Yeah
And
We've
Only
Got
Like
A
Few
Minutes
Here
Maybe
Four
Five
Minutes
So
I
Do
Want
To
Talk
About
A
Couple
And
We've
Touched
On
It
A
Little
Bit
And
That
Is
Just
Generally
Well
Let's
Just
Call
It
Free
Music
And
Your
Belief
What
Are
Your
Feelings
As
Far
As
Like
You
Said
You
Make
All
Your
Stuff
Available
For
Free
Download
On
The
Site
There's
No
Place
On
There
You
Know
That
Charges
For
Anything
It's
All
There
Downloadable
For
Free
Do
You
Are
You
Doing
That
Because
You
Want
To
Spread
The
Word
Out
So
That
You
Can
Later
On
Get
Signed
By
A
Label
And
Make
A
Big
Contract
Absolutely
Not
I've
Always
Just
Done
This
For
The
People
It's
Something
It's
A
Gift
Of
Mine
It's
A
Gift
Of
Love
I
Toil
Really
Hard
Doing
It
And
I've
Lived
In
Total
Poverty
And
I've
Never
Made
Over
Fifteen
Thousand
Dollars
A
Year
I
Survive
Off
Student
Loans
And
I've
Always
Just
Really
Felt
That
This
Was
Something
That
I
Was
Doing
As
A
Gift
To
Everybody
And
I
Don't
Think
I
Ever
Want
To
Be
Signed
With
A
Label
You
I
Wish
That
I
Could
Receive
A
Stipend
Just
Enough
So
I
Could
Survive
And
That's
What
I
Envision
About
Artists
Is
I
Wish
That
You
Know
Like
You
Mentioned
Earlier
About
America
Falling
Apart
And
Us
Losing
The
Race
Of
Technology
In
Each
Country
The
State
Has
So
Involved
That
We're
Losing
Our
Creative
Ability
So
I'm
Worried
About
How
Money
Influences
Creativity
So
Maybe
If
Makes
Them
Different
Than
Us
Because
We're
All
Creators
So
Maybe
If
We
Got
A
Stipend
Just
Enough
To
Survive
Then
We
Would
Be
Like
Everybody
Else
Who
Wouldn't
Be
Superstars
And
There
Would
Be
More
Creators
And
More
People
Working
Harder
And
A
Lot
Of
People
Who
Toil
As
Nine
To
Fivers
Who
Want
To
Be
Creative
Would
Have
A
Chance
Because
It
Be
A
Stipend
You
To
Make
Things
Better
To
Produce
Things
That
We
Enjoy
You
Know
Right
Well
You
Know
Something
We've
Said
On
The
Show
All
The
Time
Too
Is
You
Know
We
Always
Support
Free
Software
Open
Source
Software
And
Stuff
Like
That
But
We
Also
Make
It
Very
Clear
When
We
Say
That
There
Is
Nothing
Wrong
With
Making
Money
With
Making
A
Living
There
Is
Nothing
Wrong
With
Earning
Money
Especially
If
You're
Doing
It
With
Something
You
Love
Now
You
Know
Making
Millions
Upon
Millions
Like
I
Don't
Know
Let's
Go
Back
To
Destiny's
Child
You
Mentioned
Earlier
It
Comes
To
A
Point
Where
It's
Like
You
Know
What
I'm
Sick
Of
Seeing
Them
On
My
Television
Or
On
The
Radio
You
Know
So
There's
Like
A
Point
Of
Sat
To
Make
Big
Money
Not
Looking
For
A
Contract
Continue
To
Put
It
Out
Free
I
Don't
See
Anything
Wrong
With
Making
Money
What
Do
You
Think
About
The
I
Don't
Know
How
Realistic
I
Would
Love
A
Lot
Of
Hackers
To
Support
This
Concept
And
A
Lot
Of
Music
Rights
Activist
Groups
Support
This
What
About
Say
Some
Sort
Of
System
And
This
Is
All
The
Retical
And
You
Know
Delivering
It
Would
Be
Something
Different
But
Like
iTunes
Is
Somewhat
On
The
Right
Track
We
Don't
Have
Time
To
Go
Into
Detail
But
What
About
Some
Sort
Of
System
That
Went
Straight
From
The
Fans
Straight
To
The
Artist
How
Would
You
Feel
If
You
Had
A
Even
Why
Don't
You
Have
A
Paypal
Donate
Button
On
Your
Site
Let
Somebody
Donate
You
25
Cents
If
The
Whole
Problem
That
We
Had
This
Time
I
Mean
Get
Upset
Stank
This
Is
Where
We
Go
We
Lose
Our
Wig
We
Don't
Want
The
Money
Going
To
The
Corporations
And
The
Producers
And
The
Distributions
And
All
The
Fat
Cats
You
Know
Yeah
I
You
Know
They
Stand
In
The
Middle
With
Their
Hands
Out
And
That
Ridiculous
That's
A
Ridiculous
Notion
A
Ridiculous
Concept
I
Tell
You
What
I
I'm
Feel
How
Would
You
Feel
About
And
Again
The
Whole
Thing
Is
This
Is
Like
An
Optional
Thing
That
People
Can
Still
Download
It
For
Free
You
Know
It's
Just
If
They
Wanted
To
Help
I
Know
For
A fact
I
Would
I
Would
Gladly
Pay
Would
You
Be
Willing
To
Maybe
Put
Together
A
CD
That
Like
People
Could
Buy
For
Like
Five
Bucks
Or
Something
Like
That
Print
Out
Nice
Color
Label
Put
A
Little
Sticker
On
It
Greatest
Hit
Zerl's
Greatest
Hits
Or
Something
Like
That
Or
Best
Of
Or
I
Don't
Know
Something
I
Would
Ben
And
I
And
I
I'm
Really
Hearing
You
Stank
And
I
Guess
The
Only
Way
That
I'd
Allow
Myself
To
Do
This
Is
I'd
Have
To
Put
A
Whole
Page
Saying
Listen
Your
Sight
So
If
I
Could
Do
It
In
A
Way
Where
I
Could
Really
Say
Look
This
Is
All
About
Donations
And
About
You
Wanting
To
Help
Me
And
Less
About
Me
Wanting
Something
For
This
Product
Because
This
Is
For
Free
This
Is
My
Love
For
You
And
You
Can
Take
It
For
Free
But
If
You
Love
Me
Back
And
Your
Love
Is
A
Dollar
I'll
Take
Your
Help
Set
Something
Like
That
Up
I
Assume
You
Have
CD
Burners
You
Can
Burn
A
Few
CDs
To
People
I
Want
The
First
One
Autographed
I'm
Buying
The
First
One
And
I
Honestly
Put
It
On
The
Site
And
Just
Because
You
Know
What
A
Lot
Of
People
We
Have
Thousands
Of
Listeners
That
Listen
To
Your
Song
Opening
The
Show
Every
Week
You
Know
And
I
Know
That
They
Would
Gladly
Help
Out
A
Little
Bit
People
Have
Offered
To
Donate
Money
To
Us
You
Know
And
I
Feel
Awkward
About
It
You
Know
We
Put
Out
A
Magazine
For
People
And
We
Ask
Them
You
Buy
The
Magazine
For
Five
Bucks
And
We'll
Use
That
To
Keep
Putting
Out
The
Magazine
And
Pay
For
Our
Bandwidth
Bills
And
Stuff
Like
That
And
It
Doesn't
Cover
Them
I
Still
Have
That
Off
The
Air
Because
We
Are
Running
Low
On
Time
Right
Now
We
Also
I
Want
To
Talk
About
Creative
Commons
License
And
Stuff
Too
But
We
Might
Have
To
Do
That
On
Another
Episode
Thank
Yeah
Oh
Man
This
Is
A
Really
Fun
Show
To
Do
Let's
Move
Into
Shouts
I
Will
Oh
No
Wait
Actually
I'm
Going
To
Put
You
On
The
Spot
One
More
Time
Before
We
Go
Out
When
Are
We
Going
To
Get
A
New
Custom
DDP
Version
A
Ben
Rev
Version
Of
Hackers
and
Crackers
Part
Two
In
The
Process
Of
Being
Megan
Hackers
and
Crackers
2.0
Will
Only
Be
Released
On
Your
Site
And
You
Will
Have
First
Shot
At
It
My
Friend
Did
You
Just
Give
Me
The
Checks
In
The
Mail
Yes
Did
You
Just
Give
Me
No
Okay
Let's
Move
Shoutouts
For
This
Week
I've
Got
A
Couple
And
I'll
Stall
For
You
To
Think
If
You
Want
To
Shout
On
Anybody
My
Shoutouts
Go
To
The
Newest
DDP
Member
Cypher
X
Who's
Already
Been
Helping
Out
A
Lot
Doing
A
Lot
Of
Graphics
For
Us
Coming
Up
With
Some
Cool
Ideas
So
Shouts
To
Him
And
To
Dr.
Zygman
Again
Who's
Been
Helping
Tremendously
With
Hack
Making
Big
Steps
And
I
Think
You
Will
Be
Seeing
This
By
Def
Con
For
Sure
By
Def
Con
So
Shouts
To
Dr.
Zygman
For
Helping
Out
With
That
As
Well
As
A
Lot
Of
Other
Stuff
He's
Been
Helping
Out
On
He's
Been
Very
Productive
And
Helping
Out
With
A
Lot
Of
Different
Things
On
My
End
How
About
You
Got
Some
Shouts
You
Want
To
Give
Your
Guest
Post
But
You
Know
I
Really
And
I
Want
To
Shout
You
Out
For
Supporting
Me
And
Hosting
The
Site
And
Doing
What
You
Do
Stank
And
I
Want
To
Shout
Out
All
Your
Listeners
And
I
Want
To
Shout
Out
The
People
That
Have
Been
Inspiring
Me
To
Do
What
I
Do
And
I
And
The
Only
Reason
That
I
Continue
To
New
Youth
Is
A
Political
Site
That
Supported
Me
For
Ten
Years
And
Some
Of
These
People
I
Just
Want
To
Thank
I
Wish
I
Knew
More
And
I
Wish
I
Could
Remember
You
All
But
I
Love
You
All
And
I
Really
Appreciate
It
Yeah
We
Definitely
Have
Generally
Speaking
A
Very
Supportive
Community
And
That
One
Of
The
Things
I
Really
Makes
Me
Proud
Of
My
Fellow
Hackers
It
Really
Does
So
I
Think
It
Goes
Without
Saying
Dan
We're
Going
To
Cheap
Out
Our
Site
Of
The
Week
Is
Zerl.com
Z-E-A-R-L-E
No
Big
Hacking
Zero
Day
Exploit
Whatever
Today
Zerl.com
I
Want
You
To
Hammer
It
It's
Our
Bandwidth
I
Don't
Mind
I'm
Telling
You
Go
Hit
This
Stuff
Up
Download
All
This
Stuff
Zerl.com
If
You
Have
Any
Feedback
For
Us
At
All
Email
us
Radio
At
Ben
Rev.com
If
You
Have
Any
More
Questions
And
I'll
Pass
Them
On
Gladly
To
Zerl
And
Of
Course
You
Can
Contact
Zerl
Through
His
Website
Directly
And
To
Close
Out
Tonight
We're
Going
To
Do
A
Track
From
Zerl
Called
Confess
One
That
I
Have
Not
Used
To
Close
Out
Before
I've
Used
A
Few
Of
Your
Tracks
I
Don't
Think
You
Used
This
One
Yeah
I
Love
You
Too
Baby
And
That's
Going
To
Do
It
And
We'll
Tell
Everybody
That
We
Will
See
Next
Week
Same
Hack
Time
Same
Hack
Channel
Actually
You
Know
What
I'm
Not
Going
To
Let
You
Get
Off
That
Easy
I'm
Not
Going
To
Put
You
On
The
Spot
I'm
Not
Going
To
Use
Confess
To
Close
This
Out
I
Lied
Give
Us
You
I'm
Going
To
Make
You
Prove
It
I
Don't
Want
This
Checks
In
The
Mail
Crap
If
You're
Working
On
A
New
Hackers
And
Crackers
I
Want
You
Drop
Me
Something
I
Want
You
To
Close
Out
With
Something
I
Want
Some
Evidence
I
Want
You
To
Freestyle
Me
Something
And
All
Right
Do
It
Completely
I
Will
Shut
Up
The
Microphone
Is
Yours
Alright
You
Raised
Me
On
Video
Games
You
Plan
For
My
Brain
To
Be
Rock
I
Remember
When
Football
Was
Just
Gray
Blinking
Dots
You
Tried
To
Make
It
Your
Money
Making
Jalopy
They
Slip
Can't
You
See
I
Lived
It
All
The
Punch
Card
The
Floppy
The
Zip
Disc
The
DVD
We
Were
There
On
Every
Occasion
We
Are
The
Digital
Generation
The
Language
Of
Freedom
My
Mind
Is
Free
On
The
Net
The
Underground
The
Media
The
Gathering
Place
The
Trading
Place
Of
Things
That
You
Don't
Know
About
Yet
You
Fucking
Government
Stooge
I'm
In
Your
Base
And
I'm
Killing
Your
Dudes
Their
Copyright
Protection
Gives
Me
An
Erection
As
Soon
As
They
Make
It
We
Break
It
Whack
Ass
Activation
You
Just
Release
A
Key
And
We
Beat
Them
At
Their
Own
Game
We
Got
Them
Shaking
In
Their
Boots
You
Unimaginative
Fool
Trying
To
Hire
Us
As
Your
Tool
Spending
Untold
Sums
To
Keep
Us
On
The
Run
Unstoppable
We're
Never
Done
Better
Off
Trying
To
Block
Out
The
Sun
Because
We
Do
This
For
Fun
Hackers
And
Crackers
You
Know
How
I
Feel
Thank
You
For
Making
My
Music
Real
Stank
My
Dog
For
Support
Leading
A
Binary
Revolution
Towards
Our
Collective
Freedom
If
You
Think
That
Operation
Fast
Link
If
It
Made
Us
Blink
We
Rise
Like
Phoenix
From
The
Ashes
To
The
Flame
To
Live
Again
We
Will
Remember
The
Work
Of
Deviants
Class
Eschelon
WLW
Fairlight
APC
And
Razor
1911
We
Retire
Your
Names
To
Hacker
Cracker
Heaven
Yes
Keep
Doing
What
You
Do
We
Need
You
UFC
Vengeance
We
See
I
Think
We
Are
Going
To
Close
Right
Out
On
That
Man
Thanks
For
Being
On
The
Show
And
We'll
Definitely
Get
You
On
As
Soon
As
We
Can
In
The
Future
I
Appreciate
It
Brother
Peace
Out