WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:09.460 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:09.760 --> 00:15.520 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:15.520 --> 00:20.800 in a fag phone, in your digital stance getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in 00:20.800 --> 00:27.020 my six foe, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable, on the 00:27.020 --> 00:32.120 out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a 00:32.120 --> 00:37.240 hero, in a flash I'll screw you on burning dreamcast, you need some ISO, let me through 00:37.240 --> 00:42.680 my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught 00:42.680 --> 00:48.940 the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's 00:48.940 --> 00:53.440 all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling 00:53.440 --> 00:58.140 your phones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ leaves you flat on your 00:58.140 --> 01:03.100 back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and 01:03.100 --> 01:09.520 crack, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial code, source code, ISO, 01:10.100 --> 01:11.500 RAN, SIP, SIP, SIP. 01:12.000 --> 01:17.520 Hello and welcome to Pioneer Revolution Radio, episode 117 for October 11th, 2005. 01:18.040 --> 01:19.000 I'm Strom Carlson. 01:19.280 --> 01:20.140 I'm Black Ratchet. 01:20.140 --> 01:23.260 We have two guests this week, both from Boston 2600. 01:23.360 --> 01:24.460 We have Koresh and Stalin. 01:24.740 --> 01:25.340 Say hi, guys. 01:26.060 --> 01:26.340 Hi. 01:29.420 --> 01:32.700 Koresh has been on the show before talking about the meetings and everything. 01:33.940 --> 01:36.420 We have Stalin's a bin rev version. 01:37.400 --> 01:37.660 Woo! 01:38.820 --> 01:41.340 Yes, we're going to have the towel party after the show. 01:41.560 --> 01:43.060 We're deflowering Stalin. 01:43.240 --> 01:45.180 I've always wanted to deflower a Soviet leader. 01:46.200 --> 01:47.540 Oh, goddammit. 01:48.480 --> 01:49.560 That sounds unfun. 01:49.560 --> 01:52.820 You know, we need to find out, like, a term for that fetish. 01:54.600 --> 01:56.580 Obsessed about, you know, Soviet philia? 01:56.840 --> 01:57.960 Soviet leaders. 02:01.160 --> 02:08.140 The Cold War era was so fun, you know, kind of just waiting for impending doom to fall upon us. 02:08.520 --> 02:14.060 You know, just thinking whether Brezhnev is going to have a decent day or not. 02:14.480 --> 02:17.480 You know, it keeps me going. 02:17.480 --> 02:21.300 Well, don't worry, because if there is a nuclear attack, you can always hide under the desk. 02:22.880 --> 02:25.100 No, there's too many computers under it right now at this point. 02:25.180 --> 02:26.700 I can't really fit under it at this point. 02:27.240 --> 02:29.480 Yeah, but they'll absorb all the EMP stuff. 02:29.480 --> 02:35.460 Actually, talking about nuclear attack, this actually happened about a month or so ago. 02:36.280 --> 02:42.140 Cipher X, who was from, he's a jarhead, he's from the Marine Corps and recently exited. 02:42.640 --> 02:46.540 He sent me a scan of one of his field manuals, and it says, 02:46.540 --> 02:58.500 In the event of a nuclear attack and you are exposed and have no shelter, you are supposed to lie on the ground and put your feet toward the blast and just sit there until the shockwave passes. 02:59.120 --> 02:59.960 That sounds effective. 03:00.480 --> 03:00.760 Yeah. 03:02.320 --> 03:02.720 Yeah. 03:02.920 --> 03:04.840 Are you all supposed to put a paper bag over your head or something? 03:04.840 --> 03:11.980 No, see, if you dig a hole and put your head in it, you know, if you don't see it, it never really happens. 03:12.820 --> 03:14.580 Oh, well, that's my theory to life anyway. 03:16.260 --> 03:18.560 I tell Crush this all the time. 03:18.640 --> 03:26.500 It's like, you know, don't look at the package, you know, of item X you're buying, you know, or else, you know, you probably won't be able to eat it. 03:26.500 --> 03:32.860 And, you know, man doesn't listen, but I think it's a pretty decent ideology, a decent way to look at life. 03:33.580 --> 03:34.800 Don't read the package labels. 03:35.900 --> 03:36.760 Yeah, it's always a good thing. 03:36.860 --> 03:37.920 Just ostrich syndrome. 03:38.080 --> 03:39.480 If you don't see it, it's not there. 03:40.360 --> 03:40.720 Exactly. 03:42.100 --> 03:43.740 All right, let's get into housekeeping. 03:44.560 --> 03:44.880 Yay! 03:47.120 --> 03:47.620 Let's see. 03:47.620 --> 03:59.620 Our one housekeeping announcement is I was cruising in the car day and I heard on WBZ 1030 AM that Yahoo was getting into the podcasting – I forget the term they used. 03:59.700 --> 04:03.600 I think it was like – shoot, I don't know what they were calling it. 04:03.640 --> 04:12.960 They were using some type of snazzy term like, you know, trend or – they were making it sound like this really cool thing that was happening on the Internet and all of you should be envious of what's happening and you're not there. 04:12.960 --> 04:22.840 So I checked it out and technically I guess we're already listed or if you do a search for BINREV radio, we have all kinds of hits for the podcasts. 04:23.560 --> 04:29.120 But none of the podcasts actually work because the two that they always reference seem to be 404 hours. 04:29.120 --> 04:31.960 So I submitted us. 04:32.100 --> 04:42.440 Hopefully in the next couple of days they'll be adding us and you can go search us out at http colon slash slash audio dot search dot yahoo dot com. 04:42.960 --> 04:45.100 Hopefully you can spell that. 04:45.580 --> 04:45.720 Yeah. 04:46.420 --> 04:46.860 Audio. 04:47.020 --> 04:47.900 A-U-D-I-O. 04:48.120 --> 04:51.140 If you don't know what the yahoo dot com is – 04:51.140 --> 04:55.880 What, .mx doesn't work or, you know, .co.jp doesn't work? 04:56.000 --> 04:58.980 You know, what about all the people that don't live in the States? 04:59.520 --> 05:00.900 You know, what about that? 05:00.900 --> 05:01.660 That's a good question. 05:01.840 --> 05:07.440 I don't know if we're working for all the other – because I know it's like yahoo dot co.jp and – 05:07.440 --> 05:08.140 Screw them. 05:08.860 --> 05:09.420 Screw them. 05:09.540 --> 05:10.200 Screw all the foreigners. 05:11.020 --> 05:11.400 It doesn't matter. 05:11.400 --> 05:14.180 I got this web hosting for you later in the show. 05:15.060 --> 05:15.300 Okay. 05:19.540 --> 05:21.060 So, yeah, let's get into the email. 05:21.300 --> 05:22.520 That's about it for things. 05:22.600 --> 05:23.200 Let's go into the email. 05:23.200 --> 05:45.700 Hey, Black Ratchets, Tom Carlson, and Insert Guest here. 05:46.080 --> 05:47.380 First of all, love the show. 05:47.380 --> 05:52.820 I was listening to episode 116, and you were having a discussion on the performance rating that AMD gives their chips. 05:53.300 --> 05:57.420 First of all, let me just say up front, I am an AMD fan, so take this as coming from one. 05:58.100 --> 06:01.660 But they are very correct in saying their clock speed does not indicate performance. 06:02.140 --> 06:09.200 The AMD 3000 Plus is a higher clock speed than the 3200 Plus, but the 3200 Plus performs better in nearly every test I have seen. 06:09.200 --> 06:12.740 Also, Intel is doing this with their new processors as well. 06:12.740 --> 06:13.840 A quote from Wikipedia. 06:14.980 --> 06:26.220 Because of the philosophy change, a Pentium 4 clocked at 3.0 GHz with a 1 MB L2 cache could now outperform a 3.4 GHz Pentium 4 with 512 KB L2 cache. 06:26.920 --> 06:31.020 Clock speeds could no longer solely differentiate the performance of different Pentium 4s. 06:31.020 --> 06:36.480 As a result, Intel has adopted a PR rating of its own using three-digit numbers. 06:37.020 --> 06:43.340 Intel now faces the challenge of making consumers compare its processors based on PR ratings rather than raw clock speed. 06:44.080 --> 06:46.460 Ironically, a problem which Intel created for itself. 06:47.420 --> 06:52.140 Check it out here at tinyurl.com slash bravo3... 06:52.140 --> 06:54.340 Tinyurl... 06:54.340 --> 06:55.180 Bravo 3... 06:55.180 --> 06:55.200 3... 06:55.200 --> 06:55.780 8... 06:55.780 --> 06:56.720 Sierra, Sierra, Sierra. 06:57.520 --> 07:00.060 No, the 3.8 just messed me up for some reason. 07:00.060 --> 07:04.060 That, once again, that's tinyurl.com slash bravo3... 07:04.060 --> 07:04.660 8... 07:04.660 --> 07:05.300 Sierra, Sierra. 07:05.620 --> 07:05.880 Yes. 07:06.740 --> 07:10.340 Anyways, keep up the good work, love the show, love more of the phone content. 07:10.860 --> 07:17.120 Also, if you wouldn't mind, I'm interested in organizing a BINREV meeting in Southern California in the Victorville-Hesperia-Apple Valley area. 07:17.540 --> 07:22.960 Could you please announce this on the show and ask anyone interested to email klistplusmeeting at gmail.com? 07:23.080 --> 07:24.360 I would appreciate it a lot. 07:24.840 --> 07:29.360 Oh, and if you do read this on the air, shout out to Siaskul Lochelesko... 07:29.360 --> 07:30.180 What is it? 07:31.580 --> 07:36.380 Psychosoul, Lochoisloco, and Danathor. 07:37.440 --> 07:39.860 I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce those again. 07:40.860 --> 07:41.520 Lord Kalis. 07:42.800 --> 07:43.600 Smiley face. 07:43.600 --> 07:47.140 Yes, I'm standing corrected. 07:48.520 --> 07:51.720 I usually stand by my whole measuring, you know, CPU support. 07:51.920 --> 07:56.100 I stand by my statement of CPU performance measuring is completely subjective. 07:56.100 --> 08:11.000 It's, I literally, I took two courses on this in school on why this is so hard, and there are dozens upon dozens of standards out there since, like, 1970, even before that, people measuring performance. 08:11.000 --> 08:15.580 You know, the special things that are counted in one aren't counted in others. 08:15.760 --> 08:17.280 There's all kinds of special terms. 08:17.420 --> 08:21.600 There's MIPS, there's FLOPs, whetstones, drystones, clock speed, cache. 08:21.600 --> 08:33.580 There's 15 ways until Sunday that you can measure CPU performance, and just measuring them on one test will say that it's better than another chip, but if you run another test on them, it'll say it's worse than other chips. 08:33.900 --> 08:39.040 So, I'm leaving you with kind of my own take on an old saying. 08:39.280 --> 08:42.840 There are lies, damn lies, and CPU performance specs. 08:42.840 --> 08:47.320 I think everyone agrees with that, I hope. 08:47.740 --> 08:48.340 Yep, yep. 08:49.200 --> 08:56.700 And also, this also kind of, this just occurred to me, this also kind of proves that overclockers are really silly. 08:57.500 --> 09:01.980 Just, you know, increasing your clock speed is not going to basically increase your CPU performance. 09:02.460 --> 09:03.180 Thank you very much. 09:04.160 --> 09:04.520 Yay! 09:07.400 --> 09:11.780 But, man, you can get, like, an extra two to three frames per second on Quake, man. 09:11.780 --> 09:18.080 You know, like, that, you know, two to three frames per second, you know, will totally make you a better gamer. 09:18.460 --> 09:18.860 Exactly. 09:18.860 --> 09:27.700 But, Hank, that's kind of always been the, you know, the philosophy of anyone who tweaks every last possible ounce of performance out of their, you know, computer or car or whatever, you know. 09:27.760 --> 09:29.080 Their Gen 2 box. 09:29.780 --> 09:30.620 Yeah, exactly, right. 09:30.620 --> 09:44.860 You make your initial upgrade, which gives you this enormous leap in speed, and then you start tweaking it and tweaking it and spend inordinate amounts of time and money going for that extra one cycle a second or one mile an hour, you know, or one pound foot of torque or whatever. 09:45.220 --> 09:46.520 You know, this just occurred to me. 09:46.580 --> 09:50.360 I don't think we've had an episode yet where people haven't mentioned Gen 2. 09:50.360 --> 09:54.300 We'll have to try that next time to see if we can have an episode of Gen 2. 09:54.300 --> 09:57.540 I guess so, because we're just, we've lost already. 09:58.220 --> 09:58.340 Yeah. 09:58.420 --> 09:59.480 See, I didn't. 10:00.480 --> 10:00.980 Go ahead, Scott. 10:01.780 --> 10:03.360 You mentioned frame rates before? 10:03.740 --> 10:04.600 Note that down. 10:04.680 --> 10:05.180 Edit that out. 10:05.380 --> 10:05.760 Yeah, I know. 10:07.520 --> 10:07.960 I already did. 10:07.960 --> 10:08.720 You mentioned frame rates? 10:09.300 --> 10:09.860 Stalin did? 10:10.660 --> 10:10.980 Mm-hmm. 10:11.040 --> 10:11.240 Yeah. 10:12.080 --> 10:16.720 Yeah, I just want to thank whoever out there ported Duke Nukem 3D to Mac OS X. 10:16.820 --> 10:18.440 You kind of made my shitty week a little bit better. 10:19.320 --> 10:19.680 Really? 10:19.820 --> 10:21.700 You can run Duke Nukem 3D on Mac OS? 10:22.640 --> 10:24.320 It is a special port of it for OS X. 10:25.300 --> 10:25.700 Wow. 10:26.180 --> 10:31.100 Seriously, find the URL and put that in your personal hacking stories, because I really would like to try that. 10:31.780 --> 10:32.080 Cool. 10:32.080 --> 10:33.340 Oh, yeah, I can send it over to you. 10:33.400 --> 10:35.220 It's pretty damn small, I mean, comparatively. 10:35.720 --> 10:36.900 So it's great. 10:37.520 --> 10:39.400 How do you switch weapons? 10:39.500 --> 10:40.300 There's no right mouse. 10:41.240 --> 10:43.100 Everything's on the keyboard. 10:43.220 --> 10:47.200 I'm still in the process of mapping everything out in the best way, especially on a compact keyboard like that. 10:47.220 --> 10:48.220 It's a real pain in the ass. 10:48.380 --> 10:48.820 I can imagine. 10:48.820 --> 10:49.680 No, but you can control click. 10:51.740 --> 10:52.180 Yeah, I know. 10:52.240 --> 10:52.780 Tell me about it. 10:52.880 --> 10:54.200 Seriously, the whole... 10:54.200 --> 10:55.660 Haven't we already mentioned this? 10:55.780 --> 10:59.000 The whole having one mouse key is like being born with one nipple? 11:00.360 --> 11:02.740 I don't know if you've said that personally, but that's pretty amusing. 11:04.440 --> 11:05.480 So, yeah, that sounds cool. 11:05.480 --> 11:13.460 Also, yeah, as far as starting a BINREV meeting in the high desert of Southern California, that would be pretty cool. 11:13.460 --> 11:22.180 I know there are a couple people who come all the way to the LA 2600 meetings and EC2N3 meetings from, like, the El Cajon Pass area. 11:22.560 --> 11:25.500 So I'm pretty sure they would appreciate having something closer to home. 11:25.820 --> 11:37.460 However, I'm not sure how terribly successful you're going to be, simply because I know that there have been maybe at least one attempt at doing a DC 909 group. 11:37.460 --> 11:41.720 And that has consistently just fallen apart. 11:42.340 --> 11:49.960 So best of luck, and email me if you want any help, because I run the DC 213 meeting, and I'd be more than happy to help you organize that. 11:50.320 --> 11:54.140 Also, perhaps the entire thing could be that, you know, they just don't have a good organizer. 11:54.400 --> 12:01.440 Perhaps KLS could be the driving force between BINREV 909 or whatever you want to call it. 12:01.620 --> 12:04.340 It would be BINREV 760, in fact. 12:04.660 --> 12:05.640 BINREV 760? 12:05.640 --> 12:11.000 KLS, we'll put you in the announcements for the next couple of shows. 12:11.880 --> 12:16.980 Isn't there, like, five or six different, like, 2600 meetings in California? 12:17.140 --> 12:20.900 There's some pretty ridiculous number of 2600 meetings in California. 12:21.160 --> 12:28.980 Well, I know there's one in San Diego, there's one in San Francisco, there's one in Los Angeles. 12:30.140 --> 12:32.620 I think there's one, like, in Orange County somewhere. 12:32.620 --> 12:35.700 Also, I hear California is pretty big. 12:36.200 --> 12:36.380 Yeah. 12:36.640 --> 12:44.900 Don't forget, the Los Angeles metropolitan area, you know, just Los Angeles County and Orange County combined are, like, what, 25, 30 million people? 12:45.620 --> 12:45.980 So... 12:45.980 --> 12:46.600 Not bad. 12:47.560 --> 12:47.920 Not bad. 12:49.040 --> 12:49.860 It's crazy. 12:49.860 --> 12:51.860 So, yeah, I can understand there being tons of meetings. 12:52.780 --> 12:52.960 Yeah, well... 12:52.960 --> 12:54.840 I think Stalin should move back out there. 12:54.900 --> 12:59.120 Maybe he can get, like, an, I don't know, ESL version of the meetings going on. 12:59.220 --> 12:59.660 What do you think? 13:00.760 --> 13:03.280 Might be mildly successful in the Southern California area. 13:04.280 --> 13:06.760 For those of you who don't know Stalin, Stalin is Mexican. 13:07.960 --> 13:09.380 He's very proud of that fact. 13:09.380 --> 13:11.740 How often do you go back to Mexico? 13:12.780 --> 13:15.340 About once every year. 13:15.820 --> 13:16.380 Once every year? 13:16.440 --> 13:17.440 That was more often than that. 13:17.440 --> 13:18.840 I don't know, no. 13:20.160 --> 13:21.480 I tend to stay away. 13:23.020 --> 13:24.140 We can have, like, an ESL... 13:24.140 --> 13:24.640 We can do... 13:24.640 --> 13:25.280 Here's what we can do. 13:25.460 --> 13:28.760 At the Boston 2800, we can have an ESL version of Stalin doing the translating. 13:34.100 --> 13:38.900 I'm not making fun of ESL, nor non-English, non-native English speakers. 13:40.860 --> 13:46.040 I mean, like, it shouldn't be that bad in California, you know, since most, you know... 13:46.040 --> 13:51.340 You know, prerequisite to live in California, you kind of have to know Spanish, so I think 13:51.340 --> 13:53.380 everybody can handle it down there. 13:54.240 --> 13:58.980 But, you know, Boston, on the other hand, you know, that shit isn't a requirement, so... 13:58.980 --> 14:04.360 You know, you have to pick up on the not seeing our stuff, and, you know... 14:04.360 --> 14:08.540 But, yeah, I think I could manage an ESL talk. 14:08.540 --> 14:12.000 I mean, why don't we have more, you know, real Boston people come into the meetings around 14:12.000 --> 14:12.300 here? 14:14.420 --> 14:17.540 As opposed to those fake Boston people that we currently have, huh? 14:17.740 --> 14:19.340 Yeah, like all of us. 14:20.200 --> 14:22.760 I'm born and raised in Boston. 14:23.580 --> 14:24.960 Yeah, but you don't sound like it. 14:24.960 --> 14:26.840 I want to have some real Boston people, you know what I mean? 14:26.840 --> 14:28.680 No, I'll go. 14:28.940 --> 14:35.500 We can get that announcer from that Discovery Channel fire show they're doing in Boston. 14:36.320 --> 14:36.480 Yes. 14:36.720 --> 14:37.140 And I was... 14:37.140 --> 14:37.320 Oh. 14:38.100 --> 14:42.180 The announcer does a fake Boston accent during the entire show, and it just hits me and 14:42.180 --> 14:43.260 just grates on me. 14:44.880 --> 14:45.920 Oh, it's horrible. 14:46.020 --> 14:47.380 I've heard amazing things. 14:47.920 --> 14:48.900 Oh, man. 14:50.220 --> 14:53.840 Well, we're really drifting here, so let's just go on and move on to the next... 14:53.840 --> 14:58.460 Before we move on to the next email, again, that email address is kahlessplusmeeting, 14:58.540 --> 15:04.640 that's K-A-H-L-E-S-S plusmeeting at gmail.com. 15:04.880 --> 15:06.480 Yeah, we'll put that in announcements, too. 15:06.560 --> 15:08.500 We'll toss you in the announcements for the next couple of weeks. 15:08.500 --> 15:08.700 Yeah. 15:09.100 --> 15:11.620 Because, hey, you know, more BINREF meetings are equal to good. 15:13.040 --> 15:17.080 Our next email tonight is from Madar, M-A-D-A-R. 15:17.080 --> 15:21.800 So, I have an asterisk question, which would seem to be simple, but I'm having a dog of a time 15:21.800 --> 15:23.700 kneeling it down in a solid answer online. 15:24.280 --> 15:26.680 My question is regarding SIP phones inside of a LAN. 15:26.860 --> 15:28.240 What exactly is the deal here? 15:29.000 --> 15:33.720 I understand that SIPs don't play well with NAT, and I pretty much understand why it's an issue. 15:33.900 --> 15:35.880 SIP can't be bound to a specific port, Etsy. 15:36.840 --> 15:41.540 However, I don't understand why you can't have, or can you, a SIP phone inside the network 15:41.540 --> 15:46.520 that talks to asterisk, while asterisk translates into eeks, and then connects outside my router 15:46.520 --> 15:48.560 to a service, i.e., EFWD. 15:48.760 --> 15:50.120 I'm assuming they can speak IAX. 15:50.120 --> 15:53.120 Could you please break this down for me a bit? 15:53.320 --> 15:58.620 I'm living in Taiwan, and I have seen a SIP phone in shops, an Art Dio IPF 2000, I believe. 15:59.020 --> 16:01.340 I'm tempted to pick one up, however, it's not terribly cheap. 16:01.460 --> 16:05.760 If I'm not going to be able to get out of my land to reach my family and friends in other parts of the world, 16:05.840 --> 16:07.100 it's going to be pretty useless to me. 16:07.640 --> 16:12.220 I'm pretty sure that this is going to be worked around, but I hate to drop cash only to find out that I'm wrong. 16:12.660 --> 16:13.900 Thanks in advance, Madar. 16:14.120 --> 16:16.180 P.S., stop talking about freaking phones already. 16:16.540 --> 16:18.280 Stop talking about phones and a phone question? 16:18.280 --> 16:19.340 Oh, my gosh, what will they ever do? 16:19.460 --> 16:20.180 I think I'm going to explode now. 16:20.180 --> 16:21.140 My head's going to explode. 16:21.240 --> 16:21.760 Yeah, yeah. 16:22.220 --> 16:24.200 Anyway, thank you for the mail. 16:24.380 --> 16:28.700 I'm pretty sure this is – if you're not the first Taiwanese listener we've heard of, 16:28.980 --> 16:30.800 certainly the first one who's sent us email. 16:31.400 --> 16:33.320 So, yay, we're international. 16:33.320 --> 16:34.960 I can't believe all the way in Taiwan. 16:35.080 --> 16:35.540 That's amazing. 16:36.020 --> 16:36.180 Yeah. 16:37.260 --> 16:40.040 Anyway, what you're talking about is perfectly doable. 16:40.200 --> 16:42.760 In fact, Ratchet and I do exactly that. 16:42.840 --> 16:48.360 We have SIP phones on our desks that talk to our asterisk boxes, which then talk to each other via eek. 16:48.760 --> 16:53.700 So it's very doable, and it's really ridiculously easy to do. 16:54.400 --> 16:55.580 It's seamless as well. 16:55.580 --> 17:01.040 I mean, pretty much you just set up in your configuration that the SIP phone acts as an extension off your asterisk box, 17:01.120 --> 17:03.540 and then the asterisk box switch you to the eek trunk. 17:06.700 --> 17:07.540 It's very easy. 17:07.640 --> 17:08.820 All it's just done in your configs. 17:08.840 --> 17:09.900 You can specify it right out. 17:10.740 --> 17:15.240 To be honest, it doesn't even show – it doesn't even register to me that this is happening. 17:15.340 --> 17:16.320 It's completely seamless. 17:18.760 --> 17:19.900 Well, I mean, like – 17:19.900 --> 17:20.800 What's so surprising about Taiwan? 17:22.140 --> 17:22.500 Pardon? 17:23.320 --> 17:25.460 What's so surprising about him being from Taiwan? 17:25.640 --> 17:28.880 I mean, everything in my PC right now was made there in the first place. 17:32.140 --> 17:35.560 Well, I mean, given that this is mainly an English-language show, 17:35.700 --> 17:39.880 and it's, you know, for the most part within the context of the North American continent, 17:40.840 --> 17:44.940 we try and have international perspective, but this is still kind of interesting to me, you know? 17:46.520 --> 17:47.820 It's just pretty cool in general. 17:48.160 --> 17:48.360 Mm-hmm. 17:50.640 --> 17:52.960 The next email is from Lumi, and it says, 17:53.440 --> 17:55.820 The really cool Mac supercomputer is at Virginia Tech. 17:56.060 --> 17:59.760 Originally, they used G5 dual processors and just bought a ton of them. 18:00.160 --> 18:03.620 When the X-Serve came out, they bought a ton of those as well to replace the G5s. 18:03.840 --> 18:05.960 There's a movie on it available at the following site, 18:06.180 --> 18:11.720 and that's apple.com slash hardware slash video slash Virginia Tech. 18:12.740 --> 18:14.280 A really quick note on RAID. 18:14.620 --> 18:15.780 RAID 0 is striped. 18:15.960 --> 18:16.860 RAID 1 is mirrored. 18:16.860 --> 18:20.160 Some controllers can do RAID 0 plus 1, which is a mirrored stripe. 18:20.580 --> 18:25.340 Finally, in regards to the Pixar air conditioners and having to manually shut down the computers, 18:25.720 --> 18:31.440 my friend just recently acquired a managed power bar that he can tell it into and shut down power cycle computers from remotely. 18:32.060 --> 18:33.440 Sure would have helped a lot with Pixar. 18:34.320 --> 18:35.100 Regards, Lumi. 18:35.100 --> 18:39.820 Well, Lumi, thanks for cleaning that up. 18:39.940 --> 18:44.300 I always get confused about, you know, striping, mirroring, mirroring and striping. 18:45.140 --> 18:48.120 And when you get to RAID 5, I completely lose it. 18:48.460 --> 18:53.640 It's like RAID 5 mirrored striping plus parity or some such nonsense. 18:53.640 --> 18:56.620 I know how RAID 5 works. 18:56.720 --> 18:59.660 I know how RAID 4 works, 3, 2, and 1, and 0. 18:59.820 --> 19:00.360 They all work. 19:00.420 --> 19:01.600 I just don't know the damn terms. 19:02.840 --> 19:06.040 I got to say, those power strips you're talking about are very badass. 19:06.500 --> 19:11.760 I've seen them in use, and they are just the coolest things ever for a hung machine that's physically dead. 19:12.400 --> 19:16.900 However, the problem with the manual shutdown is that in order to graciously take a machine down, 19:16.980 --> 19:17.980 you can't just unplug it. 19:18.200 --> 19:21.040 That's essentially of, like, putting someone to sleep by snapping their neck. 19:22.340 --> 19:24.280 It's something you just don't do. 19:25.120 --> 19:31.920 However, like, one of the things that I always want to do is I just want to have one of those manageable power outlet type things 19:31.920 --> 19:33.620 and plug my DSL modem into it. 19:33.920 --> 19:38.060 And if one of my servers detects that I don't have Internet, it will just automatically power cycle it for me, 19:38.740 --> 19:42.160 which is always really annoying when I'm at work and my DSL connection goes down 19:42.160 --> 19:45.880 and I can't access any of my machines on my LAN, and it makes me sad. 19:47.980 --> 19:49.820 But, you know, that's what I want. 19:50.040 --> 19:53.360 However, I don't think that's ever going to happen anytime soon, 19:53.460 --> 19:56.800 because these things cost gobs and gobs and gobs of money. 19:58.260 --> 20:00.540 Well, you just need to win the lottery like the rest of us. 20:00.920 --> 20:02.040 Ah, yes, yes, indeed. 20:04.640 --> 20:07.660 Do you want to read the next email, and I can do my well-rehearsed answer? 20:08.500 --> 20:09.160 Sure, sure. 20:10.460 --> 20:12.920 Hey, Black Ratchet, Strom, and any other co-hosts. 20:12.920 --> 20:15.240 I found this story on the MyGOT forums. 20:15.320 --> 20:16.320 I guess that's how you pronounce that. 20:16.840 --> 20:17.400 I assume so. 20:17.600 --> 20:17.700 Yeah. 20:18.000 --> 20:25.300 Some guy said that while taking apart his laptop to replace a broken PCMCIA riser, 20:25.640 --> 20:28.760 he found a hardware key logger that was wired to his Ethernet card 20:28.760 --> 20:31.580 that would send keys to the Department of Homeland Security. 20:32.220 --> 20:33.000 Here's the link. 20:33.740 --> 20:38.340 TinyURL.com slash 7EchoGolf72. 20:38.860 --> 20:39.400 I'm learning. 20:39.400 --> 20:41.760 Crazy stuff. 20:42.080 --> 20:44.160 Do you think that the government is trying to spy on people? 20:44.440 --> 20:45.260 I wouldn't doubt it. 20:45.340 --> 20:47.360 But anywho, I have a good idea for an episode, 20:47.640 --> 20:50.880 maybe a good wholehearted episode all about freaking payphones old school 20:50.880 --> 20:52.000 and other freaks or fun. 20:52.720 --> 20:53.400 Love, termite. 20:54.040 --> 20:55.020 Wow, that was a random ending. 20:56.400 --> 20:58.760 I like the old school freaks or fun. 20:59.180 --> 20:59.420 Yeah. 20:59.960 --> 21:00.260 Yeah. 21:00.440 --> 21:03.760 I don't know what the hell that is, so we'll get back to you on that. 21:03.760 --> 21:11.080 So if you're listening to the show, I'll give you a second to bring up this web page. 21:11.420 --> 21:15.500 Bear in mind, I wouldn't visit it from work, and I will tell you the reason why. 21:15.640 --> 21:17.160 So I'll give you a second to bring it up. 21:18.640 --> 21:19.040 Okay. 21:19.080 --> 21:19.920 I hope you had fast fingers. 21:21.800 --> 21:22.160 Wow. 21:22.160 --> 21:25.760 Well, let me say, this is really, really, really fishy. 21:26.660 --> 21:31.180 So, well, first off, this whole website is based off of a guy's website 21:31.180 --> 21:34.360 who's an anti-government white power talk show host. 21:35.380 --> 21:37.080 Not that this discounts it outright. 21:37.080 --> 21:44.820 Well, I'll just say that I took it with a very, very, very, very, very, very, very large grain of salt. 21:46.340 --> 21:53.820 Well, okay, next, I have never seen a laptop ever with a shield wire going between the keyboard and the system board 21:53.820 --> 22:00.580 like he's the one showing right there in the, I don't know what he says, the little pictures he has there. 22:00.580 --> 22:07.660 I've seen small wires going from the laptop to the system board around 1997 or so, 22:07.760 --> 22:12.680 but anything past, like, 2000 that I have seen has some type of ribbon cable 22:12.680 --> 22:15.940 or some type of kind of, like, flat data film. 22:16.040 --> 22:17.360 I'm not sure exactly what they call it. 22:17.400 --> 22:22.700 It's this really flat, plastic-y thing, and it looks like a sheet of paper, really. 22:25.000 --> 22:29.640 Third, if this gizmo is hooked into the Ethernet card, it can't magically talk into the Internet. 22:29.640 --> 22:32.040 Ethernet is designed for local LAN transmission. 22:32.720 --> 22:37.200 This isn't going to go and do, you know, the government well unless you're sitting right on your LAN. 22:38.160 --> 22:44.240 Fourth, if this is correct, the keyboard, or KeyGhost keyboard logger, that's what he calls it, right? 22:44.320 --> 22:44.520 Yes. 22:45.300 --> 22:49.440 It's hooked into the Ethernet board, and there is little to no way for this thing to talk to the network 22:49.440 --> 22:50.960 without killing your Ethernet connection. 22:51.600 --> 22:52.820 Well, technically not. 22:53.240 --> 22:55.380 You can't piggyback it onto your existing Ethernet. 22:56.040 --> 22:57.900 It will quite literally break your network. 22:59.640 --> 23:02.240 Fifth, I really loved this quote. 23:02.940 --> 23:07.140 I called the police, as having a key logger unknown to me in my laptop is a serious offense. 23:07.680 --> 23:09.960 They told me to call the Department of Homeland Security. 23:11.000 --> 23:13.500 Now, I can picture this conversation at the precinct. 23:13.580 --> 23:16.620 We got, like, some guy answering the phone, and a sergeant sitting right behind him, 23:16.620 --> 23:20.480 and he just turns around and says, you know, Sarge, I got this guy on line one. 23:20.660 --> 23:23.000 He's talking about, like, this key logger in his laptop. 23:23.700 --> 23:24.360 What should I do? 23:25.320 --> 23:30.800 And the sergeant, like, probably, like, thinks there for a second, oh, man, like, tell him to call the Department of Homeland Security. 23:30.920 --> 23:32.580 It's going to, like, really blow his mind. 23:32.580 --> 23:39.200 And I can just see this happening because, like, I always heard this story about this guy, you know, 23:39.240 --> 23:44.760 constantly harassing the police department about how aliens are sending, like, evil signals controlling his brain. 23:44.760 --> 23:49.100 And one of the cops finally told him, here's what you do. 23:49.200 --> 23:53.320 You take your tinfoil, you cover yourself in it, and you make sure the shiny side's out, 23:53.380 --> 23:54.960 and everything will stop going into your brain. 23:55.280 --> 23:57.820 And he called back, like, a day later saying, thank you very much. 24:00.000 --> 24:01.560 I don't know if it's true. 24:01.740 --> 24:02.780 I really don't know. 24:03.660 --> 24:06.360 But it's a humorous story nonetheless. 24:06.360 --> 24:16.720 So, finally, getting Freedom of Information Act request approved, it's insanely hard to do in any type of form of law enforcement agency. 24:17.600 --> 24:21.200 It's a law of the land, and it's cool, and you always get some stuff out eventually. 24:21.860 --> 24:27.040 But the law says you can't get stuff, items relating to national security. 24:28.660 --> 24:34.320 As we all know, national security is lovely and an all-encompassing term that can include anything 24:34.320 --> 24:39.780 ranging from the color of the presidential underwear to the lunch menu at the Langley Falls High School. 24:39.960 --> 24:42.340 Oh, come on. We all know Bushwear's smiley face underwear. 24:43.560 --> 24:44.600 We'll have a nice day. 24:47.440 --> 24:50.720 My opinion is, I'm not sure about anyone else. Take it as you will. 24:51.300 --> 24:56.380 Something like this is sort of kind of possible, I guess, if you really wanted to try it, 24:56.440 --> 24:58.300 but not as complex as he's talking about it. 24:58.820 --> 25:03.620 And this exactly thing is just, grade, a total, 100% complete bullshit. 25:04.320 --> 25:12.240 Well, I mean, like, all right, so, you know, you said the dude was a skinhead radio host, or, yeah. 25:12.440 --> 25:16.560 So, you know, so let's say, you know, maybe the dude's under investigation. 25:16.920 --> 25:22.280 I could see a possible key logger, but as a kind of a general kind of, 25:23.060 --> 25:26.600 it's on everybody's machine kind of situation, I don't see that. 25:27.000 --> 25:29.740 You know, that's very true. I didn't actually think of that. 25:29.740 --> 25:36.940 But he says he's repairing his own PC card riser, or PCMCIA riser. 25:38.060 --> 25:41.460 And if someone installed that, that means they'd have to basically take his laptop, 25:41.740 --> 25:44.840 crack it open, re-solder this little thing in between there, 25:44.920 --> 25:47.260 and somehow figure out how to connect it to his Ethernet card. 25:47.520 --> 25:50.940 I think the whole function of his existence is to increase the general level of paranoia 25:50.940 --> 25:53.340 and uncertainty in the public consciousness. 25:53.820 --> 25:54.940 Oh, that's exactly what it is. 25:54.940 --> 25:57.100 Yeah, so this just fits in with that so perfectly. 25:57.660 --> 26:03.120 It would seem like, you know, one of the case scenarios would just be like, 26:03.160 --> 26:10.800 he's trying to credit himself a bit better, you know, like, you know, to be like, 26:10.880 --> 26:13.360 oh, you know, the government's kind of after me, so, you know, 26:13.400 --> 26:18.020 I do have some sort of credit because the government is looking into me, so. 26:18.120 --> 26:19.920 He wants his 15 minutes of fame. 26:20.740 --> 26:20.940 Yeah. 26:22.800 --> 26:28.120 And, you know, shit like that seems silly to me, but, you know. 26:28.740 --> 26:29.980 Yeah, it's silly. 26:32.040 --> 26:33.360 Yeah, I don't buy it. 26:33.940 --> 26:35.080 I don't buy it either. 26:35.080 --> 26:40.960 I think, I heard this story, and actually it was from a Tom Clancy novel, 26:41.140 --> 26:42.960 but he said that it was actually happening in real life, 26:43.080 --> 26:47.720 that the Israeli secret intelligence, in order to assassinate a terrorist once, 26:47.720 --> 26:51.620 he bought his cell phone in to be serviced, 26:51.980 --> 26:55.020 and they replaced it with an identical cell phone that worked completely, 26:55.780 --> 27:00.440 but it had a bomb attached, and it would only, like, explode if you basically called it 27:00.440 --> 27:02.180 and imported a certain DTMF sequence. 27:03.180 --> 27:07.240 And I just find that interesting, but I guess theoretically it could happen. 27:09.160 --> 27:12.500 Yeah, I mean, theoretically, sure, probably. 27:12.960 --> 27:16.060 Come on, who takes your cell phone to get serviced these days? 27:16.060 --> 27:19.960 Well, this was back in the early 90s when you had these. 27:19.960 --> 27:20.040 Ah, okay. 27:20.440 --> 27:22.020 It was a StarTAC flip phone, allegedly. 27:22.360 --> 27:23.600 Ah, and it cost, like, $4,000. 27:24.220 --> 27:24.480 Yeah. 27:24.880 --> 27:26.280 So, actually, when you got it serviced. 27:28.840 --> 27:31.200 So, yeah, take this as it is. 27:31.420 --> 27:32.040 Look at the pictures. 27:32.240 --> 27:32.960 Form your own opinions. 27:33.100 --> 27:34.640 I'm not saying I'm preaching everything. 27:34.820 --> 27:35.300 You never know. 27:35.480 --> 27:40.440 The Department of Homeland Security could have everything evil and stuff. 27:41.420 --> 27:44.020 But I really don't think so. 27:44.020 --> 27:44.600 I love that. 27:44.600 --> 27:50.460 But, you know, just the wiring job itself, personally, I think it's stupid. 27:51.940 --> 27:52.640 Either way. 27:53.880 --> 28:00.960 You know, like, also, like, you know, there's a much, like, so they have the little module in there, 28:01.080 --> 28:04.240 and, you know, it could work as a keylogger, but, like, you know, 28:04.300 --> 28:07.080 it's still an actual physical piece of hardware when, you know, 28:07.080 --> 28:09.160 you could be much more sneaky. 28:09.160 --> 28:15.200 Like, I've read papers on how people have written, like, basically BIOS patches. 28:15.820 --> 28:21.140 You know, you can infect the BIOS, and you could have, you know, code in there that, you know, 28:21.500 --> 28:26.060 once your machine gets turned on, you know, you can basically execute this little piece of code on there. 28:26.060 --> 28:33.520 But, you know, that, to me, would be a much cooler way to handle a keylogger of sorts, you know, 28:33.520 --> 28:35.420 to really be sneaky. 28:36.420 --> 28:37.960 It would be a much cooler route, you know. 28:38.380 --> 28:39.660 You just cost me $6,000. 28:40.800 --> 28:42.160 $6,000. 28:42.160 --> 28:49.040 So, yeah, well, also, also, now that you mention that with the whole BIOS patches and everything, 28:49.240 --> 28:53.480 it's a whole lot easier because there's apparently a piece of government spyware called, 28:54.200 --> 28:55.640 I believe it's called Magic Lantern, 28:56.720 --> 29:00.940 and allegedly all the antivirus companies, well, maybe not all of them, 29:00.940 --> 29:09.800 but definitely Symantec, McAfee, and there was some other major one out there that I can't remember right now. 29:09.800 --> 29:13.840 They all agreed, basically, that you put a backdoor in their code that says, 29:13.940 --> 29:16.240 if you see this, it's not a virus, ignore it. 29:16.320 --> 29:20.140 It's officially, like, an electronic-sensitive gathering thingy. 29:21.180 --> 29:21.540 Huh. 29:21.540 --> 29:22.340 So, you never know. 29:22.740 --> 29:24.740 It could be backdoored right now. 29:26.500 --> 29:36.640 And I think it would be a whole lot easier to do that rather than take out this evil keylogs logger thingy. 29:37.980 --> 29:38.380 Yeah. 29:38.900 --> 29:39.300 Yeah. 29:39.800 --> 29:42.000 I don't know. 29:42.080 --> 29:43.040 Time for hacking stories? 29:43.640 --> 29:44.520 Yeah, I think so. 29:44.620 --> 29:46.680 We're kind of just sort of ranting and raving on this. 29:48.260 --> 29:50.400 Well, I'll stir it off, as always. 29:51.000 --> 29:55.480 This Sunday, I went to the grand opening of the New Hampshire Telephone Museum. 29:55.940 --> 29:56.340 Ooh. 29:56.600 --> 29:57.500 With Red Nerd. 29:57.620 --> 29:59.980 And I have pictures up on my website if you want to check it out. 29:59.980 --> 30:05.420 I took gratuitous photos of the various phones they have there and their antique stepper switch. 30:05.420 --> 30:10.040 It was a lot of fun, and I went up with my friend Red Nerd and I. 30:10.040 --> 30:22.120 And we basically played along there and spent about two or three hours just sitting in this room with them and just talking to the guys and playing on their switch and locking up the step twice, and they had to clear it for us. 30:22.120 --> 30:25.160 I generally just had a good time. 30:25.500 --> 30:28.300 I have also been playing with a lot of ham radio stuff lately. 30:30.520 --> 30:31.200 Nerd alert. 30:31.200 --> 30:34.620 Hello, we're all nerds here. 30:35.340 --> 30:37.060 You're talking about on a hacking radio show. 30:37.140 --> 30:38.020 You're calling me the nerd. 30:38.100 --> 30:38.640 What the hell, man? 30:40.180 --> 30:40.880 Some people. 30:41.220 --> 30:41.620 The nerd. 30:43.660 --> 30:51.060 At some point, I will actually go ahead and narrate the high-quality digital recording I made at the Seattle Telephone Museum a year and a half ago. 30:52.000 --> 30:55.060 Of the step and the number five and the number one crossbar on the panel. 30:56.120 --> 30:56.940 We're all waiting. 30:57.560 --> 30:57.740 Yes. 30:57.740 --> 31:05.140 I was actually just happy because Strom very nicely sent me his raw copy, so I'll be listening to that while it work on Tuesday. 31:06.240 --> 31:06.900 Yeah, I've got to work on it. 31:06.900 --> 31:07.760 While probably editing the show. 31:07.980 --> 31:09.000 Yeah, it's kind of unlistenable. 31:09.880 --> 31:15.900 Anyway, my personal hacking story is I broke down and I bought one of those iPod battery replacement kits. 31:16.540 --> 31:20.820 My cousin came to me and he said, my iPod only lasts an hour these days. 31:20.920 --> 31:22.840 I said, well, let me try one of those battery replacement kits. 31:23.540 --> 31:26.320 So I bought from, what is it, iPodjuice.com. 31:26.320 --> 31:28.680 And it was a snap. 31:29.020 --> 31:30.300 iPodjuice with a J? 31:30.480 --> 31:32.020 Yeah, J-U-I-C-E. 31:32.340 --> 31:32.680 Okay. 31:32.800 --> 31:34.900 As in apple juice or orange juice or whatever. 31:34.900 --> 31:42.780 And it was amazingly easy to open up the iPod, remove the old battery, stick in the new one, snap it back together, and charge it up. 31:44.040 --> 31:45.300 You don't have to solder or anything? 31:45.740 --> 31:46.560 No, no soldering. 31:46.560 --> 31:59.020 Pretty much they give you a little blue plastic wedge doohickey thing that you squeeze in to the seam between the silvery part and the polycarbonate front. 31:59.760 --> 32:03.940 And you just kind of slowly, you gently wrench the silvery bit away from the front. 32:04.360 --> 32:09.640 And there are little tabs on the front part that snap into the metal bit in the back. 32:09.640 --> 32:13.400 So you just snap those off, and pretty much the whole back comes off. 32:14.900 --> 32:15.380 Interesting. 32:15.820 --> 32:20.100 Yeah, you remove the hard drive, which is just a connector that snaps on. 32:20.600 --> 32:23.600 And you unplug the old battery and replace it with the new one. 32:24.100 --> 32:24.240 Hmm. 32:27.460 --> 32:30.100 So assuming you don't have the shakes, it's a blast. 32:30.180 --> 32:30.620 It's a breeze. 32:31.080 --> 32:31.900 No, probably I do. 32:32.120 --> 32:34.940 But I'm never going to be a neurosurgeon. 32:35.020 --> 32:35.480 Look at it that way. 32:35.820 --> 32:36.940 Probably why I can't solder either. 32:36.940 --> 32:41.240 So, Stalin, have you done any computer hack story stuff this week? 32:43.600 --> 32:44.440 Not really. 32:44.780 --> 32:46.440 You know, just a lot of chilling. 32:46.900 --> 32:49.240 But the hack story stuff, no. 32:49.460 --> 32:52.720 I don't have any interesting stories this month or this week. 32:53.420 --> 32:54.680 It's a really tell. 32:55.900 --> 32:56.660 But you're just boring. 32:57.440 --> 32:58.100 Yeah, I am. 32:58.640 --> 33:00.880 You've got to get over it at some point. 33:01.320 --> 33:01.580 Yeah. 33:01.640 --> 33:02.320 What about you, Koresh? 33:04.480 --> 33:06.760 I've been working on a lot of things in the last week. 33:06.940 --> 33:11.540 I'm trying to bring myself back up from some personal dark spots. 33:12.940 --> 33:17.120 I've been fixing on other people's computers, which is, you know, one of those things I just love to do. 33:17.480 --> 33:17.980 Not really. 33:18.480 --> 33:19.280 Pays the bills, man. 33:19.360 --> 33:19.640 Yeah. 33:20.000 --> 33:24.380 If anyone out there wants me to fix their computer, I don't recommend bringing it to me in the next couple of weeks, 33:24.440 --> 33:25.860 because I'm going to tell you to screw. 33:25.860 --> 33:32.920 So, I've been working on a website for a friend involving some do-it-yourself projects in the Boston area, 33:33.000 --> 33:36.100 which is pretty cool, encompassing music and the arts and whatnot. 33:36.520 --> 33:38.240 And it's actually really cool. 33:38.340 --> 33:39.560 I'll let you guys know when it's all done. 33:39.560 --> 33:44.680 Um, today I actually re-listened to Robert Steele's talk from The Last Hope, 33:45.080 --> 33:47.480 because I missed half of it and never went back and listened to it, 33:47.500 --> 33:49.700 and I'm kind of pissed off that I had to leave during it. 33:49.840 --> 33:54.120 But, if you haven't heard it and you're actually, you know, interested in intelligence and whatnot, 33:54.220 --> 33:55.460 I definitely recommend checking it out. 33:55.620 --> 33:56.840 Well, what's the talk? 33:58.440 --> 33:59.220 What was the talk? 33:59.580 --> 33:59.860 Yeah. 33:59.860 --> 34:02.100 Uh, I'll give you the title of it. 34:02.120 --> 34:02.720 I think it's a long title. 34:02.800 --> 34:03.080 Hang on. 34:03.860 --> 34:05.280 Well, first off, what's it about? 34:05.480 --> 34:07.620 I mean, because Robert Steele means nothing to me. 34:08.800 --> 34:09.300 Oh, really? 34:09.340 --> 34:09.680 I'm sorry. 34:09.880 --> 34:13.440 Um, he's the guy who does all the, well, I don't really want to call it social engineering, 34:13.560 --> 34:18.120 but he does all, he was like the former, uh, a former government official and, you know, 34:18.120 --> 34:21.200 worked as, like, I don't want to say as a spy, but like a covert agent, whatever. 34:21.540 --> 34:23.660 Was over in, uh, was over in Asia for a while, 34:23.660 --> 34:28.160 and he just talks about just global intelligence and how the U.S. just falls short in, like, every category, 34:28.160 --> 34:30.480 as far as what we could be doing compared to what we are. 34:31.560 --> 34:36.840 The name of the talk was everything you wanted to know about spying 9-11 and why we continue to screw up. 34:38.320 --> 34:39.300 I'll have to check that out. 34:39.300 --> 34:40.340 And it's really, really long. 34:40.420 --> 34:43.140 It's over four hours, but it's definitely worth checking out because it's in front of me. 34:43.140 --> 34:43.380 Holy cow. 34:44.520 --> 34:48.240 Yeah, that's why I was only able to stay for a couple of hours because I had other stuff to do that day. 34:48.640 --> 34:49.200 I can imagine. 34:51.000 --> 34:52.100 Well, that's cool. 34:53.180 --> 34:54.920 Yes, definitely worth listening to. 34:55.660 --> 34:56.760 I'll be sure to listen to that. 34:56.760 --> 34:59.920 I'll put it right after, uh, Strom's, uh, Seattle Computer Museum tape. 35:02.200 --> 35:04.280 So, telephone museum, not a computer museum. 35:04.760 --> 35:05.560 Yeah, computer museum. 35:05.600 --> 35:07.300 It's called the Communications Museum now, isn't it? 35:07.540 --> 35:11.100 Yeah, the, um, it used to be the Seattle Telephone Museum. 35:11.100 --> 35:13.020 Now I think it's called the Museum of Communications. 35:13.680 --> 35:14.400 Yes, sorry. 35:14.540 --> 35:17.420 So it was the Seattle Communications Museum is what I was trying to say. 35:17.520 --> 35:20.620 I just, sort of, I guess I'm sort of hardwired to say computer. 35:22.420 --> 35:23.420 You phone freak you. 35:23.420 --> 35:29.260 Yes, so either way, our specific show topic tonight, we're talking about BSDs. 35:30.780 --> 35:37.420 And that's not some type of strange STD you can pick up, and speaking of Southern Asia, but... 35:37.420 --> 35:38.180 Oh, God. 35:40.080 --> 35:41.880 It's like a Bangkok down there, you know. 35:42.640 --> 35:45.160 It's a donkey show discussion here. 35:45.160 --> 35:55.960 So, I, I know nothing about BSD, which is why, why Koresh and Stalin are on tonight, because they're apparently BSD geeks. 35:57.640 --> 36:03.000 Not, not BSD geeks per se, but I dig, uh, BSD. 36:03.000 --> 36:12.640 But, uh, you know, to start off, uh, inclusively open BSD, because that's kind of, like, what I use, uh, for server, server platforms and such. 36:13.960 --> 36:18.060 Okay, well, let's, let's, let's start with the general question here. 36:18.180 --> 36:19.740 What, what is BSD? 36:21.080 --> 36:29.000 Uh, you know, BSD, uh, you know, develop, uh, at Berkeley, you know, Berkeley, uh, Berkeley, uh, Berkeley, uh... 36:29.000 --> 36:31.680 Well, systems distribution, as far as I remember correctly. 36:31.680 --> 36:34.440 Yeah, uh, I thought it was systems development or something like that. 36:35.580 --> 36:54.660 Uh, yeah, but, you know, develop the, you know, BSD, and, you know, um, all kinds of work's been done on it, and, you know, basically at this point, it's just, uh, you know, it has become, uh, one of those OS's that, you know, people, uh, well, I should say probably, like, Slashot just kind of battles over. 36:55.060 --> 36:57.960 Like, oh, you know, Linux is better, and BSD is better, and such. 36:58.460 --> 37:00.180 Wasn't BSD dialing? 37:00.180 --> 37:01.940 Uh, yeah, BSD. 37:01.940 --> 37:02.580 I read that on Slashdot. 37:02.700 --> 37:03.400 BSD's dying? 37:04.500 --> 37:04.900 What? 37:05.840 --> 37:08.100 Isn't BSD dying? I think I read that on Slashdot. 37:08.700 --> 37:11.160 Uh, uh, people on Slashdot say a lot of things. 37:12.280 --> 37:15.020 Wasn't, wasn't BSD based on AT&T System 5 Unix? 37:15.860 --> 37:20.520 Uh, from my recollection, yes, but I might be wrong. 37:21.080 --> 37:21.240 Um... 37:21.240 --> 37:22.440 No, it, it was. He's right. 37:22.440 --> 37:36.400 Yeah, but, um, at this point, you know, it's just a different kernel, um, that, you know, uh, a lot of people say Linux is a derivative of, uh, Unix. 37:36.400 --> 37:39.620 It's very Unix, you know, Unix-based. 37:40.080 --> 37:55.860 You know, uh, you know, the concept is, uh, you know, Linux is a different kernel, and, uh, you know, uh, the fucking OSes are just a, basically, a compilation of different tools based on the Linux kernel, so it's not really Unix-based. 37:55.860 --> 37:58.080 It's, you know, it's, you know, it's own kind of thing, but... 37:58.080 --> 37:59.360 Unix-like, that is. 38:00.180 --> 38:08.120 Yeah, I mean, I take it, you know, as a derivative, derivative work of Unix, but, you know, a lot of people disagree with me. 38:09.220 --> 38:16.400 Okay, so, the, the, the three BSDs that I know are OpenBSD, and NetBSD, and FreeBSD. 38:16.600 --> 38:23.880 Do, do, do, I, I know, like, OpenBSD is some type of uber-secure distribution, but, but, what's the difference between the three? 38:23.880 --> 38:28.520 Um, OpenBSD, you know, uh, you know, known for security. 38:28.660 --> 38:36.480 I think they didn't have a remote, uh, vulnerability in, like, uh, in their default install for, like, eight years or something like that. 38:36.860 --> 38:42.140 So, basically, they audit everything that's on their, uh, system. 38:42.320 --> 38:50.780 It's just massive, massive code reviews, and, you know, that's what they're kind of known for, and it's a very solid distribution. 38:50.780 --> 39:03.500 And, uh, FreeBSD, it's more for the, you know, still very acceptable as a server platform, but it's, you know, it's more usable, I would say, than, uh, 39:04.960 --> 39:08.720 OpenBSD is just, in some cases, friendlier. 39:08.720 --> 39:18.460 But, you know, it's still, it's still kind of a pain to set up and use, well, to me, anyway, because, what, uh, you know, one of my, you know, 39:18.560 --> 39:21.240 the platform I use the most, I would say, is be Linux. 39:21.680 --> 39:25.720 But when I have to use BSD, you know, I don't have a BSD box to work on. 39:26.220 --> 39:32.920 But, uh, you know, just trying to get one of those things working properly is, you know, a pain in the ass. 39:32.920 --> 39:34.680 And then there's NetBSD. 39:34.780 --> 39:37.600 NetBSD is just kind of known for running on everything. 39:38.320 --> 39:47.280 The, their thing is, uh, you know, you're, you know, uh, what's their slogan, uh, um, it probably runs, uh, NetBSD, or something. 39:47.460 --> 39:49.220 Of course it runs NetBSD. 39:49.600 --> 39:50.560 That's what it is. 39:51.060 --> 39:51.400 Yeah. 39:51.460 --> 39:55.940 And, you know, and, like, uh, I think, uh, I forget where I saw it. 39:55.940 --> 40:03.340 Like, they, some, some dude made a toaster that ran NetBSD, and I was like, well, you know, they finally did it. 40:03.420 --> 40:12.220 You know, everybody's been saying, you know, NetBSD probably runs on a toaster, and, you know, they finally pulled it off, and I was like, you know, good for them. 40:12.980 --> 40:16.660 So, uh, a toaster, a toaster that toast spread runs NetBSD. 40:17.200 --> 40:17.600 Yeah. 40:17.720 --> 40:21.080 You know, you can, you know, be running your website while you toast. 40:21.080 --> 40:25.800 Oh, not to get too far off topic here, um, in the latest issue of Wired, 40:25.940 --> 40:32.480 they have a toaster that also poaches an egg and cooks a piece of Canadian bacon, all at the same time. 40:33.440 --> 40:34.860 But does it run NetBSD? 40:36.780 --> 40:38.080 Of course it can. 40:38.180 --> 40:40.300 If it can do that, it can do anything. 40:41.520 --> 40:43.400 Of course it can run NetBSD. 40:45.680 --> 40:50.140 Yeah, uh, apparently it's a very, uh, minimalist, uh, OS. 40:50.140 --> 41:07.780 Like, I was talking, uh, to one of, uh, Koresh's friends, and he's pretty big into NetBSD, and basically says, you know, it's very, very small, but, you know, they have, uh, I forget what they call their ports to, uh, their port server, and, you know, I found there's a lot of stuff on that. 41:07.840 --> 41:09.700 Very, uh, you know, very nice. 41:09.700 --> 41:18.900 And they also, it's, uh, cross-platform compatible, so you can basically run it on, you know, Linux as well, which is kind of cool. 41:18.960 --> 41:25.100 I haven't tried it yet, but I am going to do it at some point, because, uh, I really like ports. 41:25.180 --> 41:26.620 It's a, it's a nice system. 41:27.080 --> 41:30.040 Like, uh, from the looks of it, it's just a, uh... 41:30.040 --> 41:31.480 What is ports, exactly? 41:31.480 --> 41:42.880 Ports, uh, is, uh, basically the, uh, package, uh, tool, uh, under, uh, well, not the package tool, it's the package, uh, the way to get packages, uh, for FreeBSD. 41:43.460 --> 41:54.480 And, basically, you have, uh, a directory on your system called ports, and there's just a bunch of folders on there, uh, for the different tools you need. 41:54.720 --> 42:00.620 So, let's say you need Apache, you go into ports, go into the Apache folder, and you build it, just make, make, install. 42:00.620 --> 42:11.600 And, basically, what it does, it goes and touches the latest, well, probably not the latest, but the version that ports has, uh, from, you know, the distribution site, like Apache. 42:11.680 --> 42:30.560 It'll go download Apache, but it also has a patch for it, so it can build properly under, uh, BSD, because there are, uh, differences between, uh, Linux and BSD that needs to, that you need to basically change in certain things for them to build properly. 42:30.620 --> 42:38.180 I think, like, the sockets are a bit different, and shit like that, that you need to change in the source for it to properly build. 42:39.060 --> 42:43.800 And, you know, it's very clean, you know, you, it's all from source, and it's very nice. 42:43.800 --> 42:52.140 Usually, some of the ports get maintained by the BSD developers, and it's cool. 42:52.400 --> 42:56.920 Like, some of, like, from what I've heard, some of the ports don't even work, though. 42:57.220 --> 43:01.280 It's kind of buggy, uh, from, from reports of some people. 43:01.360 --> 43:02.860 I haven't really had a problem with it. 43:02.860 --> 43:13.160 Just recently, I couldn't get dsniff to build, but I haven't had, uh, dsniff, uh, build successfully under any platform for a while since LibNet changed their API. 43:14.220 --> 43:25.040 But, you know, uh, you know, it's very cool, to say the least, and it just makes building packages under your system very easy. 43:25.040 --> 43:40.240 And, you know, it's source-based, so, you know, all the geeks that love to, you know, throw the O3 flag in there, and the dash-OMG, and the, you know, dash-pwnage, uh, flags, you know, can have a little go at it. 43:41.700 --> 43:45.660 Dude, if I ever make a software package, it's still going to have a dash-OMG option on it. 43:45.700 --> 43:51.280 I don't know what it's going to do, but it'll be, like, like, override, something actually that does something. 43:51.320 --> 43:52.660 It'll put it into script kitty mode. 43:53.320 --> 43:53.680 Exactly. 43:53.680 --> 43:54.300 There we go. 43:54.300 --> 43:58.240 Yeah, it'll, uh, you know, it'll have, like, you know, BO2K running on it. 43:58.680 --> 44:03.460 You know, we'll have some unique port of BO2K, and, you know, we'll just build it into the package. 44:03.860 --> 44:06.680 Just to make things, make life easier for everybody. 44:07.380 --> 44:10.340 So, so, I'm going to piss off a lot of people off here by saying this. 44:10.380 --> 44:11.880 So, basically, what it is, it's Gen 2. 44:12.340 --> 44:15.680 All it is, is basically a giant takeoff on the BSD port system. 44:18.700 --> 44:19.300 Kind of. 44:19.920 --> 44:22.160 Send your email to radio at binrev.com now. 44:22.160 --> 44:26.540 Yeah, I mean, like, not really. 44:26.660 --> 44:33.440 I mean, like, ports, you know, it's just, there's a set of packages, but, I mean, like, Gen 2, you know, their own little collective. 44:33.860 --> 44:37.580 But, I mean, I guess the concept is the same. 44:38.040 --> 44:38.220 Yes. 44:38.220 --> 44:42.200 Yeah, yeah, the concept is very similar, but, you know. 44:43.140 --> 44:44.200 Yeah, but do you blame them? 44:45.580 --> 44:46.180 Oh, I mean. 44:46.220 --> 44:47.880 I don't blame them in the least. 44:48.420 --> 44:50.500 Oh, no, no, no, I'm not saying it's actually a bad thing. 44:51.080 --> 45:00.360 Oh, actually, it'd be, it'd be more similar to their Emerge system, where you're, like, Emerge, such and such package, and, you know, it downloads it and builds it. 45:00.360 --> 45:07.500 And, and, basically, that's kind of the same concept, but without an actual tool and, you know, it's a, in directories and shit like that, so. 45:08.620 --> 45:13.060 Okay, so, well, that, I mean, that's what I was shooting for, was the whole Emerge system, is where I was drawing the similarity. 45:13.240 --> 45:18.260 So, basically, what ports is, is just sort of like a source repository, where there's no real automated tools. 45:18.260 --> 45:27.620 It's just, you download the package, you unzip it, and install it from source, and it should, it hopefully will all work, as much as any software package could. 45:28.640 --> 45:28.780 Yeah. 45:29.180 --> 45:30.600 You know, just, you know, cross your fingers. 45:31.040 --> 45:40.320 So, we're, we're saying right now that, um, BSD, well, like, net, net BSD, you can sort of, runs on anything, but, like, free BSD and open BSD are more server-based? 45:41.000 --> 45:41.400 Yeah. 45:41.700 --> 45:42.560 Rather than desktop? 45:43.780 --> 45:48.240 Yeah, um, BSD, well, that's, what? 45:48.720 --> 45:55.400 Yeah, they're, they're basically known for, uh, server stuff, um, not the friendliest desktop, I would say. 45:55.820 --> 46:04.840 I mean, I've been trying to get, uh, I just got, like, I scored a new laptop, and I, I installed free BSD, because, on it, because I was like, hey, why not? 46:05.200 --> 46:12.920 And, it's just a pain in the ass to get it to work, and it's not friendly at all. 46:12.920 --> 46:23.740 Like, my philosophy, when it comes to the stuff, you know, Linux is for desktop, you know, BSD is for server, and that shit's just kind of worked out for me very, very well. 46:23.860 --> 46:25.500 I've never had a problem with it, you know. 46:25.500 --> 46:33.900 So, Linux desktop, very nice, you know, there's plenty of people working on it, and, you know, they keep me happy. 46:34.400 --> 46:39.700 But, when it comes to BSD, they're, they're more anal when it comes to their development process. 46:39.700 --> 46:50.740 So, you know, the base, you know, like, BSD system is just very, very closed, and so, it's very stable. 46:51.240 --> 47:01.420 It's, uh, you know, not everybody just, uh, comes in, it's like, oh, dude, I totally wrote, you know, I'm taking this course, and, you know, I just learned this cool new trick, 47:01.580 --> 47:05.600 and I'm just going to write this cool kernel module, and it's going to throw it in Linux. 47:05.600 --> 47:12.860 Uh, no, it's, they're much more, you know, the source is much more closed, I would say. 47:12.960 --> 47:21.220 I mean, it's still open source, but they're much more anal about their development process, and, you know, they, you know, it's, it's very stable for server, 47:21.500 --> 47:31.080 but just getting the shit, like, uh, hardware compatibility, you know, most people run, you know, the, the big thing with Linux is, you know, uh, very, 47:31.080 --> 47:39.300 it's kind of like the, kind of the hacker OS, you know, everybody kind of likes to develop under it, and so, you have a lot of hardware support, 47:39.420 --> 47:44.860 like, you know, some dude goes and gets some video card, and, or, not video card, but, uh, 47:46.780 --> 47:48.620 some software gives him on his device. 47:49.460 --> 47:58.200 Yeah, so, and, you know, doesn't work, so, you know, oh, I'm going to write some module, and it's going to, and it's going to work, you know, fine, 47:58.200 --> 48:04.300 and, you know, he writes it, and goes and throws it somewhere, and people are like, oh, that's cool, 48:04.440 --> 48:10.260 you just added another module to the kernel source, to the latest, uh, tree build, and, you know, 48:10.320 --> 48:19.380 it makes life easier, yes, but does it make a more stable kernel? Uh, I don't think so, but that's just, 48:19.380 --> 48:28.180 that's my view on it, um, like, I've had a lot, a lot of success with the BSD servers, I mean, 48:28.200 --> 48:35.460 ports, like, makes life easier, of course, but, you know, I would never want to run that OS as a desktop system. 48:36.720 --> 48:43.940 Okay, so, basically, basically, what it is, is, while the kernel is open, for most of the BSDs, uh, 48:44.100 --> 48:50.320 what it is, is, you're, kind of, the kernel development is very slow and deliberate, as opposed to willy-nilly, 48:50.320 --> 48:56.060 and, and, all the kind of stuff that Linux has, like, there's no real, like, development branch for, 48:56.060 --> 48:58.720 uh, free BSD, that is. 48:59.800 --> 49:00.160 Yeah. 49:01.100 --> 49:04.560 Not, not, not, in order to upgrade the kernel, in order to make a patch on the kernel, 49:04.640 --> 49:06.260 you have to have a damn good reason to do so. 49:06.980 --> 49:11.320 Yeah, you, uh, you know, you gotta know the dude, uh, you know, buy him a couple of beers, 49:11.320 --> 49:16.240 and, uh, you know, if you're lucky, he might, uh, let you, uh, get in on the kernel, 49:16.240 --> 49:20.980 but, you know, there's a good chance that he'd still tell you to go fuck yourself, but, uh, 49:21.160 --> 49:22.700 The international currency. 49:24.760 --> 49:25.160 Yeah. 49:26.420 --> 49:28.320 So, that's, that's my take on it. 49:28.740 --> 49:34.700 Okay, so, so, say, for example, I'm, I'm sitting there, I'm, I'm ready to jump from Windows. 49:35.600 --> 49:39.620 What, what, I, I've never used Unix before, I'm ready to jump from Windows, what should I learn? 49:40.140 --> 49:42.800 Uh, should I choose Linux first, or should I choose BSD first? 49:42.800 --> 49:46.600 Like, what's, what's easier, and what, what should, what, what would, like, more suit me? 49:47.320 --> 49:51.900 Uh, Linux, by, you know, huge margins. 49:52.080 --> 49:56.900 Uh, BSD, you kind of need to know your shit, or it's going to eat you alive. 49:57.380 --> 50:03.280 I mean, there's times where I go to my corner and cry, because they just whip my ass so hard 50:03.280 --> 50:09.160 that I can't even handle it, and, you know, if you're new to the Unix environment, 50:09.160 --> 50:15.180 Linux has these very nice, like, oh, Red Hat Linux, I mean, well, Fedora at this point, 50:15.560 --> 50:16.800 and Android, you know, everything. 50:16.800 --> 50:17.300 You're dating yourself. 50:18.440 --> 50:28.020 And, uh, and, you know, it's very friendly, and, you know, it'll help you out through most of the way, 50:28.120 --> 50:32.800 you know, you don't need to use the shell that often, and when you do, you know, you can pull up Google, 50:32.800 --> 50:39.560 and, you know, it's, and, you know, a lot more people use it, I would think, than BSD, 50:39.880 --> 50:41.280 because, you know, it's much friendlier. 50:42.080 --> 50:48.020 And, you know, you'll have a much, a much more interesting time, you know, learning Linux 50:48.020 --> 50:51.980 than you'll have fighting with BSD to do what you want. 50:52.340 --> 50:57.200 And, you know, fighting is what you do with Linux, I mean, with BSD. 50:57.400 --> 51:00.740 Linux, you kind of play around with fighting BSD. 51:00.740 --> 51:06.700 You know, you'll have, you'll learn a lot more under Linux, because it's just easier to use. 51:07.180 --> 51:13.700 And, you know, once you have that kind of learned, you can, you know, start, uh, you're picking up 51:13.700 --> 51:20.320 on the subtle changes there is from BSD to Linux, and, you know, once you pick those up, 51:20.420 --> 51:21.500 you know, you'll have no problem. 51:22.500 --> 51:25.860 So, only experienced Linux users should use BSD. 51:26.660 --> 51:28.840 Oh, yeah, that's, that's, uh, that's what I say. 51:28.840 --> 51:33.820 Yeah, jumping into BSD for, before we jump into Linux is definitely a big mistake 51:33.820 --> 51:36.020 for 99.9% of the people out there. 51:36.460 --> 51:41.740 I mean, especially in a computer world where the distros are a hell of a lot friendlier 51:41.740 --> 51:43.680 than they were when I was trying to get into it. 51:44.800 --> 51:45.160 Amen. 51:45.280 --> 51:49.240 I mean, these guided installations and stuff like this, like, I'm, I'm kind of jealous, 51:49.600 --> 51:50.540 to tell you guys the truth. 51:50.540 --> 51:54.660 So, uh, yeah, stick with the Linux for now and then work your way up. 51:55.640 --> 51:59.800 Yeah, well, I mean, it, it, it very much sounds like, that, that's the impression I was getting 51:59.800 --> 52:06.400 too, that basically BSD is, is sort of like Linux was, oh, I'd say about five years ago. 52:07.300 --> 52:10.000 It, no, no nice graphical GUI installers. 52:10.060 --> 52:11.300 It was very straightforward. 52:11.680 --> 52:15.560 You basically, you downloaded Slackware on 20 floppy disks and you installed it and you 52:15.560 --> 52:16.420 prayed to God at work. 52:16.420 --> 52:22.340 Yeah, like, I think there's some teams that are trying to, like, bring, uh, BSD to the 52:22.340 --> 52:22.680 desktop. 52:22.800 --> 52:27.500 I think it's, I think that, uh, the project's called, like, Dragonfly, like, you know, don't 52:27.500 --> 52:32.720 quote me on this, but there's, yeah, or PC BSD or some, something like that. 52:32.820 --> 52:37.620 And they're trying to make the entire, the entire process friendlier and shit like that. 52:37.800 --> 52:45.880 And, you know, I think it's a very nice goal, uh, you know, trying to make BSD much nicer. 52:46.420 --> 52:52.260 But, uh, you know, at this point, I'd still, if you're new to it, I'd still stick with, 52:52.340 --> 52:53.500 uh, Linux. 52:53.720 --> 52:56.540 Just, just because of the hardware support, too. 52:56.680 --> 53:03.280 Uh, I mean, you know, BSD support, you know, for hardware, you know, decent in some cases. 53:03.280 --> 53:09.580 But, you know, if you don't have, like, an NVIDIA card or a 3Com card, uh, your life becomes 53:09.580 --> 53:10.340 more difficult. 53:10.340 --> 53:15.300 And, you know, if you're starting to get into it, you don't need, you don't need to 53:15.300 --> 53:21.300 battle for hours to try to, oh, find this one dude that lives in Russia out in the middle 53:21.300 --> 53:27.800 of Siberia, happens to write a module for BSD for your specific network card, and you 53:27.800 --> 53:32.700 have to download it, patch it to your kernel, and it just gets sloppy. 53:32.700 --> 53:37.120 And, you know, you, you probably have a much easier time just to go with Linux because 53:37.120 --> 53:38.080 of the hardware support. 53:38.840 --> 53:43.080 One more thing that I'm jealous about today is the fact that someone who wants to get started 53:43.080 --> 53:48.600 these days could seriously go and buy a second box for, like, 50 bucks and just have a second 53:48.600 --> 53:49.840 machine to experiment with. 53:49.900 --> 53:53.800 Because when I was getting into this stuff, um, we only had one machine in my house because 53:53.800 --> 53:56.500 computers back then were well over two grand, I'll say. 53:56.500 --> 54:00.160 And, uh, there was no chance in hell of you having a second machine. 54:01.980 --> 54:06.540 So today you can have your main machine and have the box you're experimenting on and just 54:06.540 --> 54:07.340 switch back and forth. 54:07.420 --> 54:10.840 And you can stay online and, you know, keep looking up anything, you know, any problems 54:10.840 --> 54:11.380 you run into. 54:11.480 --> 54:13.880 You can just research while you're playing with the second machine. 54:14.380 --> 54:15.040 Oh, yeah. 54:15.120 --> 54:22.560 See, and also if you're getting, just starting to get into Linux, um, that's probably one of 54:22.560 --> 54:31.500 the better recommendations is just have, like, go get some dudes, P166, you know, throw, you 54:31.500 --> 54:36.760 know, throw two network cards in it, throw Slackware, go look up, uh, how to use, you 54:36.760 --> 54:44.060 know, IP tables or, you know, there's, there's a script out there called RC Firewall for Slackware 54:44.060 --> 54:49.940 or, you know, it's not a Slackware thing, it's just a general Linux thing for IP tables and 54:49.940 --> 54:54.100 you can, you can build this router at your, you know, at your table connection. 54:54.100 --> 55:00.060 Like, this is how I got into Linux a couple of years ago was I built a router and threw 55:00.060 --> 55:06.840 it on there and basically just, oh, I need to, I want to have a little web page and so 55:06.840 --> 55:13.220 you start, you know, learning the different, you know, instances of, uh, Linux and, you 55:13.220 --> 55:18.040 know, it's very cool because you're like, oh, I want to manipulate this and, you know, 55:18.040 --> 55:24.180 you, you spend hours figuring out what you have to do to get it to go and it's, that's 55:24.180 --> 55:26.560 probably, well, that's the way I did it. 55:26.820 --> 55:34.760 I don't know if it will work for everybody but the, the true hacker in nature will kind 55:34.760 --> 55:40.060 of enjoy it much more than just kind of getting kicks out of a desktop but that's just me. 55:40.060 --> 55:47.260 So, what, what, you could really just do that for BSD too, so. 55:47.520 --> 55:48.200 Oh, yeah, like. 55:48.200 --> 55:49.020 It's just like drilling for Linux. 55:50.020 --> 55:50.140 Yeah. 55:50.140 --> 55:57.300 But you really did it more of a baptism by fire because if you're, uh, basically if you 55:57.300 --> 56:00.340 do something bad to it, your, your cable connection is down. 56:00.340 --> 56:02.760 So, it's, it's very, make sure it works first. 56:04.080 --> 56:04.480 Exactly. 56:04.660 --> 56:08.020 I mean, like, you know, if all comes to, you know, if all comes to work, you know, you 56:08.020 --> 56:12.520 can always just plug in video and start tinkering it with there but you do have to have some 56:12.520 --> 56:14.360 knowledge of it at some point. 56:14.440 --> 56:20.220 So, you know, keep Firefox open with a million tabbed windows, uh, all point to, like, how-to 56:20.220 --> 56:26.300 sites, uh, so, you know, that's, you know, the way it worked for me might not work for 56:26.300 --> 56:26.980 everybody though. 56:28.380 --> 56:32.080 Oh, also, live CDs, you know, want to play with Linux? 56:32.420 --> 56:33.000 Give it a shot. 56:33.960 --> 56:37.380 I always forget about those because those are really new to me. 56:38.060 --> 56:40.180 And one more reason I'm jealous of people today. 56:41.160 --> 56:42.220 Live CDs are fun. 56:42.460 --> 56:44.460 Do they have a, do you know if there's a BSD live CD? 56:45.380 --> 56:49.920 Uh, yeah, I think, I think Dragonfly also released a live CD to give it a shot with. 56:50.520 --> 56:52.220 BSD has one as well, I'm almost positive. 56:53.740 --> 56:55.080 Yeah, they, they probably do. 56:56.300 --> 56:57.800 I, I will have to try that out. 56:59.140 --> 57:05.160 So, okay, well, you, you basically said that Linux is kind of more fluid and easier to 57:05.160 --> 57:08.320 get set up, but, so what are the advantages of BSD over Linux? 57:09.220 --> 57:11.300 Why, why would I want to choose BSD rather than Linux? 57:11.980 --> 57:13.660 Server, uh, uh. 57:13.660 --> 57:14.180 As a server. 57:14.920 --> 57:15.160 Yeah. 57:15.720 --> 57:22.180 The, the security on the, the BSD platform, uh, in my opinion is much more solid, uh, you 57:22.180 --> 57:24.760 know, especially when you take into consideration like OpenBSD. 57:24.760 --> 57:29.520 Um, like, it's, it's very stable. 57:29.620 --> 57:33.140 Like, also, like, you know, I was talking about, like, you know, the development process 57:33.140 --> 57:35.560 where the kernel is kind of anal at times. 57:35.920 --> 57:36.120 Mm-hmm. 57:36.120 --> 57:38.000 You know, that plays into it as well. 57:38.060 --> 57:42.100 Like, you know, there's not some random hack that just kind of writes some code and throws 57:42.100 --> 57:43.140 it into the BSD kernel. 57:43.140 --> 57:46.700 It's a very, I would almost say professional. 57:47.480 --> 57:51.900 Like, you know, if BSD started asking for money, people would pay for it. 57:52.080 --> 57:53.780 It's, it's very nice. 57:54.520 --> 58:01.360 And, you know, the, some of the, like, you know, if you don't even get it for the security 58:01.360 --> 58:05.440 reasons, like, um, they also have, like, cool tools like, uh, PF. 58:05.440 --> 58:10.920 It's, PF is a very cool, well, a very nice, uh, firewall. 58:11.200 --> 58:13.320 And you can do a lot with it. 58:13.340 --> 58:14.140 It's very powerful. 58:14.140 --> 58:22.480 And the language, uh, they use to write the config files is very fluid and almost English-like 58:22.480 --> 58:25.440 and just makes your life a lot easier. 58:25.860 --> 58:34.120 And it's, you know, they also have, uh, things like, uh, OpenBGPD, which is a routing protocol. 58:34.840 --> 58:41.900 Uh, so, so if you needed to build a router just to do, like, very, uh, high-end routing, 58:41.900 --> 58:48.220 so, like, let's say you wanted to interface with a Cisco router, you could use, uh, BGP to 58:48.220 --> 58:49.040 communicate with it. 58:49.040 --> 58:51.840 I think, uh, I think it also might do OSPF. 58:52.120 --> 58:53.120 Not sure on that, though. 58:53.580 --> 58:58.660 But, you know, stuff like that, uh, just makes it a very stable server platform. 58:59.840 --> 59:06.360 And, um, uh, you know, things like, things that are just kind of nice, uh, with, uh, let's 59:06.360 --> 59:12.460 say OpenBSD, uh, you know, comes with built-in, uh, stack protection, uh, called WX, I believe. 59:12.840 --> 59:16.360 You know, Red Hat, I think, at this point has, uh, EFC Shield. 59:17.740 --> 59:18.880 Yeah, they do, I think. 59:19.040 --> 59:24.800 Um, I don't think it's been ported to Fedora, but they also do, like, um, embedded, uh, you 59:24.800 --> 59:30.520 know, crypto, and, and just all this other stuff that just Linux distributions haven't 59:30.520 --> 59:36.180 really done, because, you know, it, you know, it does take some of the usability away, but, 59:36.380 --> 59:39.860 you know, it's very nice if you need to keep yourself from getting owned. 59:40.240 --> 59:45.400 I mean, you're pretty long inevitable, yes, but, you know, are you going to make life much 59:45.400 --> 59:46.100 harder for people? 59:46.760 --> 59:47.500 Uh, of course. 59:48.120 --> 59:48.340 I mean, here's... 59:48.340 --> 59:50.620 How many Lux are you going to use, one or 15? 59:51.360 --> 59:52.020 What was that? 59:52.260 --> 59:55.260 How many Lux do you want to use, one or 15, on your door? 59:56.900 --> 59:57.920 Uh, 15. 59:58.300 --> 59:58.920 Yeah, exactly. 59:58.920 --> 01:00:09.380 Um, like, also, I remember seeing, uh, a NetCraft survey a while ago of, like, uh, attacks 01:00:09.380 --> 01:00:15.700 under different platforms, and basically you see, like, the two, like, it was, like, over 01:00:15.700 --> 01:00:21.040 a period of time, and basically you had Linux and Windows basically up top and, you know, 01:00:21.040 --> 01:00:22.160 going up and down. 01:00:22.160 --> 01:00:27.460 But then, at the way bottom, there was just, like, this whole line that, you know, went 01:00:27.460 --> 01:00:32.200 up and down every once in a while, but kind of stayed stable, and it was BSD, and it's 01:00:32.200 --> 01:00:39.560 just kind of one of those people have kind of learned to fear BSD, so, uh, you know, that 01:00:39.560 --> 01:00:44.440 your chances of, uh, getting owned by some random dude on the Internet, uh, some worm or 01:00:44.440 --> 01:00:46.820 bot are much less reduced. 01:00:46.820 --> 01:00:53.680 And the, uh, uh, open, well, I say this for OpenBSD, I don't, I'm not sure about, uh, free 01:00:53.680 --> 01:00:56.940 and that, but a lot of their services are TrueRooted. 01:00:58.320 --> 01:01:05.600 Uh, uh, TrueRoot, um, all right, let me say, uh, TrueRoot is a way to basically separate 01:01:05.600 --> 01:01:09.580 the application you're running, uh, from the rest of the system. 01:01:09.680 --> 01:01:13.500 It creates its own, uh, file system under your own. 01:01:13.500 --> 01:01:20.960 Um, so, if somebody was to, say, found an Oday in Apache and compromised your server, they 01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:26.240 would only have access to the directory, uh, Apache was built under, under the TrueRoot 01:01:26.240 --> 01:01:26.600 jail. 01:01:27.200 --> 01:01:32.680 So, and, so, they have access to that, but they don't have access to the rest of your 01:01:32.680 --> 01:01:33.040 system. 01:01:33.420 --> 01:01:37.020 The rest of the system is completely cut off from that little jail. 01:01:37.600 --> 01:01:42.000 Uh, from, from a lot of here, there are ways to break out of a jail, but it's hard. 01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:47.760 And, and, you know, so if you get, you know, hit by a worm, not much chance that it'll do 01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:48.980 real damage to your system. 01:01:49.340 --> 01:01:54.680 So, if basically what a TrueRoot jail was, if, if a script kitty takes down your, uh, takes 01:01:54.680 --> 01:01:58.580 down your Apache web server, they're not going to be able to, say, get into your home directory 01:01:58.580 --> 01:02:04.600 or, uh, get, get, hopefully, unless they really know what they're doing, get further onto your 01:02:04.600 --> 01:02:04.860 system. 01:02:05.520 --> 01:02:08.020 Yeah, you know, they're not going to be able to touch your passwords. 01:02:08.020 --> 01:02:12.620 They're not going to touch anything, really, just that one directory they got themselves 01:02:12.620 --> 01:02:12.940 into. 01:02:13.160 --> 01:02:18.760 And, you know, if you don't have anything on there, like a compiler, you know, a shell, 01:02:19.040 --> 01:02:22.780 or anything like that, they're just, they're going to have nothing to work with. 01:02:23.080 --> 01:02:27.420 So, they just get to sit there and twiddle their thumbs. 01:02:27.420 --> 01:02:35.540 Things like that just make, uh, like, um, you know, you'll have troubles, uh, with a TrueRoot 01:02:35.540 --> 01:02:39.620 jail because you'll want to do something, and then you realize, oh, wait, no, that's under 01:02:39.620 --> 01:02:44.960 a TrueRoot jail, and I can't really have anything outside the jail to, you know, actually, you 01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:47.760 know, to be able to access it outside the jail. 01:02:47.900 --> 01:02:53.080 So, you have to really think about how you want your setup to be, and that's just kind of 01:02:53.080 --> 01:02:59.120 one of the things, you know, you usually don't have to think about under Linux, uh, you 01:02:59.120 --> 01:03:00.820 know, because a lot of people just don't build. 01:03:01.420 --> 01:03:05.240 It is possible TrueRoot, most of your, uh, TrueRoot services on Linux. 01:03:05.380 --> 01:03:06.100 I, I've done it. 01:03:06.700 --> 01:03:07.100 Oh, yeah. 01:03:07.240 --> 01:03:07.840 In the architecture of the flag tournament. 01:03:08.020 --> 01:03:12.180 I mean, it's not completely impossible, but I, I would assume that with OpenBSD, since 01:03:12.180 --> 01:03:15.200 it's all set up initially, you don't have to worry about a lot of the things that you 01:03:15.200 --> 01:03:16.360 would have to worry about under Linux. 01:03:17.020 --> 01:03:17.380 Exactly. 01:03:17.580 --> 01:03:24.240 I mean, yeah, yeah, you can, uh, you can do it, uh, under Linux, of course, but, uh, OpenBSD 01:03:24.240 --> 01:03:25.120 kind of does it for you. 01:03:25.600 --> 01:03:30.100 It's already set up, and you just kind of have to, uh, think about how you're, how the, 01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:34.300 how everything's going to be set up to really get it to work efficiently and properly. 01:03:35.420 --> 01:03:35.600 Hmm. 01:03:36.680 --> 01:03:39.380 So, okay, well, that, that, that's pretty cool. 01:03:40.460 --> 01:03:44.620 Uh, are there, like, I mean, you were talking about the port system before. 01:03:44.620 --> 01:03:49.580 Are there, are there lots of software under the ports thing, or is this just, like, you 01:03:49.580 --> 01:03:51.580 know, 10 programs maintained by... 01:03:51.580 --> 01:03:54.400 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, there's, there's a lot of stuff there. 01:03:54.520 --> 01:03:59.440 Um, I, I think, like, the last time I looked, there was, like, 5,600 packages under ports. 01:03:59.860 --> 01:04:03.320 I might be wrong, though, don't quote me on this, because, you know, there's going to 01:04:03.320 --> 01:04:08.320 be some dude that's going to be, like, uh, that Stalin dude was talking out of his ass, 01:04:08.780 --> 01:04:12.020 and so, um, yeah, there is a lot. 01:04:12.020 --> 01:04:15.760 Like, it's cool, because it's all separated into different categories, like, if you need 01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:16.940 audio tools, that's there. 01:04:17.140 --> 01:04:19.760 If you need security tools, also there. 01:04:20.180 --> 01:04:27.200 That's why I wanted to use OpenBSD, because I know, like, oh, if I need some tools for, 01:04:27.300 --> 01:04:30.460 you know, whatever reason, I can just go under ports, and they probably have it. 01:04:30.520 --> 01:04:37.000 You know, they have all the cool stuff, like, you know, Nessus, and, uh, you know, all, just 01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:38.180 a shitload of stuff there. 01:04:38.180 --> 01:04:41.300 Uh, and, you know, if you need something, there's a good chance that it's under ports. 01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:48.300 Um, yeah, like, audio tools, uh, GUI tools, uh, you know, you name it, it's probably there. 01:04:50.860 --> 01:04:51.720 Well, okay. 01:04:51.720 --> 01:04:53.980 Well, I mean, this sounds pretty cool. 01:04:54.620 --> 01:04:56.400 Uh, do you have any good websites? 01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:03.040 Um, I mean, not the, not the near standard, you know, OpenBSD.org, their, uh, their documentation 01:05:03.040 --> 01:05:09.660 is usually pretty solid, um, pre-BSD as well, um, let me see. 01:05:09.660 --> 01:05:19.540 Uh, oh, there's also, like, a BSD forum page, but I can't remember it right now. 01:05:19.640 --> 01:05:24.780 I mean, as usual, you can always try out the IRC channels, but, you know, I mean, standard, 01:05:25.060 --> 01:05:30.560 you know, usually the sites that run the distributions are pretty well-maintained. 01:05:30.560 --> 01:05:35.460 Their documentation is usually pretty good, so, you know, if you had this problem, probably 01:05:35.460 --> 01:05:39.900 a hundred thousand people have already had this problem, and, you know, the guys have 01:05:39.900 --> 01:05:41.520 probably written something about it. 01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:42.800 And it still hasn't been fixed? 01:05:42.940 --> 01:05:45.820 That's, that's not a good sign of a hundred thousand people that it hasn't been fixed yet? 01:05:46.480 --> 01:05:48.280 Well, they have 12. 01:05:48.300 --> 01:05:50.120 Uh, uh, uh, uh, I just missed the whole of BSD. 01:05:51.140 --> 01:05:52.720 BlackRatchet at BlackRatchet.org. 01:05:53.500 --> 01:05:58.280 Okay, I also recommend, um, Google Groups to people, because that's what I used years and 01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:02.480 years ago, before Google even had anything to do with it, before Google even existed, 01:06:03.120 --> 01:06:04.660 was the, uh, the News Groups. 01:06:04.660 --> 01:06:10.180 That's your best bet, and I think it still is, but check out the websites, too, because 01:06:10.180 --> 01:06:12.780 there's still a lot of documentation on different forums and whatnot. 01:06:13.460 --> 01:06:15.800 What was Google Groups before it was Google Groups? 01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:17.760 It was like, wasn't it Deja News or something? 01:06:18.820 --> 01:06:19.140 Yes. 01:06:19.500 --> 01:06:20.340 Yes, okay, that was it. 01:06:20.340 --> 01:06:22.120 Yeah, Deja had it for a long time. 01:06:22.520 --> 01:06:23.180 Deja News. 01:06:23.180 --> 01:06:24.840 Wow, I'm really dating myself there. 01:06:26.380 --> 01:06:26.780 Huh. 01:06:27.080 --> 01:06:30.640 Okay, well, hopefully we convinced more than a couple people to run DSD tonight. 01:06:31.780 --> 01:06:35.820 Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's definitely a fun platform to basically learn. 01:06:35.820 --> 01:06:40.020 Uh, you'll get, you'll get annoyed at some of the differences, uh, between some of the 01:06:40.020 --> 01:06:43.560 commands from, uh, if you've, if you've used, uh, Linux before. 01:06:43.900 --> 01:06:44.160 Who fell off? 01:06:44.160 --> 01:06:46.380 Like, uh, like, uh, huh? 01:06:46.740 --> 01:06:46.920 What? 01:06:47.260 --> 01:06:48.220 Someone just fell off? 01:06:48.360 --> 01:06:48.500 Yeah. 01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:49.960 I bet it was, I bet it was Scott. 01:06:50.960 --> 01:06:51.800 12721. 01:06:51.800 --> 01:06:54.520 Yeah, so, uh, you know. 01:06:54.520 --> 01:06:55.200 Just start from the top. 01:06:57.300 --> 01:06:58.660 Wait, what was I talking about? 01:06:59.220 --> 01:07:00.920 How, how, how BSD is cool. 01:07:00.940 --> 01:07:01.340 Who is this? 01:07:02.140 --> 01:07:02.420 Huh? 01:07:03.020 --> 01:07:04.260 How BSD is cool. 01:07:04.340 --> 01:07:05.180 How is BSD cool? 01:07:07.040 --> 01:07:08.020 Oh, um. 01:07:08.680 --> 01:07:10.320 Hopefully, there's how it started. 01:07:10.620 --> 01:07:12.820 Hopefully we convinced some people to run BSD tonight. 01:07:14.020 --> 01:07:18.180 Yeah, uh, it's, you know, definitely, uh, worthwhile checking. 01:07:18.460 --> 01:07:18.680 What? 01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:19.720 Wow. 01:07:19.820 --> 01:07:20.120 Jesus. 01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:21.580 It's, it's Scott. 01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:23.300 Or, correct, whatever you want to call him. 01:07:24.380 --> 01:07:24.700 Huh. 01:07:26.080 --> 01:07:26.900 Well, yeah. 01:07:28.040 --> 01:07:28.400 Um. 01:07:28.520 --> 01:07:29.300 Well, wait, hold on. 01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:29.780 Just wait until we. 01:07:30.860 --> 01:07:31.500 Joint's back? 01:07:31.800 --> 01:07:32.080 Yeah. 01:07:33.460 --> 01:07:33.940 All right. 01:07:35.160 --> 01:07:36.900 Are you talking about his mobile phone or something? 01:07:37.380 --> 01:07:37.900 Yes, he is. 01:07:37.900 --> 01:07:38.360 He only has a. 01:07:38.360 --> 01:07:38.980 I have a mobile phone. 01:07:39.060 --> 01:07:40.500 It's been cutting out all night for some reason. 01:07:40.600 --> 01:07:41.160 It never does it. 01:07:42.200 --> 01:07:43.680 Yeah, you need to get, yeah, exactly. 01:07:43.800 --> 01:07:44.620 You need to get VoIP running. 01:07:45.040 --> 01:07:45.400 Exactly. 01:07:45.740 --> 01:07:46.000 Yeah. 01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:47.540 Okay. 01:07:48.540 --> 01:07:51.280 So, three, two, one. 01:07:51.540 --> 01:07:55.200 Well, uh, so hopefully we convinced some people to run BSD tonight. 01:07:56.160 --> 01:07:56.900 Yeah, yeah. 01:07:57.100 --> 01:07:59.780 Um, you know, it's definitely cool, uh, worthwhile to check out. 01:07:59.780 --> 01:08:04.520 You'll, you'll, you'll get to learn some of the annoyances from the different, uh, operating 01:08:04.520 --> 01:08:05.960 systems like, uh, BSD to Linux. 01:08:06.040 --> 01:08:11.640 If you've, if you've used Linux before and you use BSD, you'll get to notice, uh, you 01:08:11.640 --> 01:08:15.840 know, some of the annoyances like, uh, route, route's definitely different, you know, and 01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:20.740 there's just a ton of different things that are just, that are, that are exactly the 01:08:20.740 --> 01:08:24.000 same, but there's just like this one little tweak they did. 01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:29.880 And, and, and, it will drive you up the wall just being like, why doesn't that work? 01:08:30.840 --> 01:08:31.400 But, you know. 01:08:31.400 --> 01:08:36.240 Well, it's just more of, like, the, uh, uh, the syntax has changed for everything. 01:08:36.420 --> 01:08:40.080 It's, I mean, if you, if you went from pre-BSD to Linux, you'd, you'd probably run into the 01:08:40.080 --> 01:08:40.540 same wall. 01:08:41.280 --> 01:08:42.140 Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. 01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:47.040 But, you know, you'll, you'll still be able to navigate your way through it and, you know, 01:08:47.040 --> 01:08:51.960 you'll, you'll learn some new stuff and, you know, hopefully you'll, you know, start 01:08:51.960 --> 01:08:58.680 using a BSD server instead of, uh, you know, your standard Linux, uh, Linux box for server. 01:08:59.040 --> 01:09:00.860 Uh, uh, that's just my take on it. 01:09:01.160 --> 01:09:03.000 Well, I'm, I'm, I may start using BSD. 01:09:03.280 --> 01:09:03.840 You never know. 01:09:04.400 --> 01:09:07.600 I'll have to, I'll have to take one of my spare boxes I have sitting around in my room 01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:09.020 and fire it up and see what happens. 01:09:09.820 --> 01:09:11.860 Okay, so, all right, announcements. 01:09:12.360 --> 01:09:12.700 Let's see. 01:09:12.760 --> 01:09:13.680 Strom, do you have any announcements? 01:09:14.240 --> 01:09:21.940 Well, let's see, um, I guess I'll re-announce the possible binrev 7661. 01:09:21.960 --> 01:09:29.160 Uh, K-L-E-S-S, that's K-A-H-L-E-S-S, plus meeting at gmail.com. 01:09:29.640 --> 01:09:34.000 If you're in the Inland Empire or the High Desert and you're interested in a binrev meeting, 01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:35.120 mail him. 01:09:35.140 --> 01:09:37.440 Oh, wait, wait a second, did you just say 7661? 01:09:38.400 --> 01:09:38.920 Yeah. 01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:40.200 Oh. 01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:41.620 No shit. 01:09:43.180 --> 01:09:47.080 I'm, I fucking, I come from the fucking 7661. 01:09:47.540 --> 01:09:49.320 7661 is my fucking homeland. 01:09:49.540 --> 01:09:50.940 Where specifically do you come from? 01:09:51.580 --> 01:09:52.260 Uh, Palm Desert. 01:09:52.920 --> 01:09:53.560 Oh, yeah, yeah. 01:09:53.560 --> 01:09:53.920 Uh, I know. 01:09:54.340 --> 01:09:57.940 This is Victorville, Apple Valley, um, Hesperia area. 01:09:57.940 --> 01:10:00.080 Victorville, Hesperia area. 01:10:00.700 --> 01:10:03.840 And just to re-announce, I'm not sure if you're enunciating it correct. 01:10:04.140 --> 01:10:10.100 You're saying it, but just to make sure people understand, that's K-A-H-L-E-S-S, 01:10:10.100 --> 01:10:15.500 the plus symbol, M-E-E-T-I-N-G, at gmail.com. 01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:20.000 Because it's, apparently, I think that's, I think that's a way of sorting stuff on Gmail. 01:10:21.020 --> 01:10:21.380 Is it? 01:10:21.780 --> 01:10:24.520 I know that, I know that's a way of sorting stuff on certain mail systems. 01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:25.900 I assume that Gmail might support it. 01:10:25.960 --> 01:10:26.560 I, I don't know. 01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:30.820 Or maybe there's, or maybe there's just some way of having, you know, K-Less Plus Meeting. 01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:31.800 Uh-huh. 01:10:31.900 --> 01:10:33.160 Maybe there's a separate account. 01:10:33.300 --> 01:10:34.200 He's just cool like that. 01:10:35.560 --> 01:10:38.160 He could just do BR760 at gmail.com. 01:10:38.380 --> 01:10:38.740 I don't know. 01:10:39.740 --> 01:10:40.340 Either way. 01:10:40.340 --> 01:10:42.480 Koresh, do you have any announcements? 01:10:44.400 --> 01:10:44.800 Announcements? 01:10:46.360 --> 01:10:47.900 MIT flea on Sunday. 01:10:48.680 --> 01:10:50.960 Everybody get down there if you're from Boston area. 01:10:51.500 --> 01:10:52.540 It's the last one of the year. 01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:53.720 It's going to be some good times. 01:10:54.460 --> 01:10:56.800 We, we will be there, and we will be in Hawaiian shirts. 01:10:59.460 --> 01:11:00.580 Oh, God damn. 01:11:00.580 --> 01:11:03.620 Oh, why? 01:11:03.980 --> 01:11:05.640 Why do I live in Massachusetts? 01:11:06.640 --> 01:11:07.040 Why? 01:11:10.340 --> 01:11:11.100 Oh, screw you. 01:11:11.180 --> 01:11:12.280 I'm going to be in a Hawaiian shirt. 01:11:12.400 --> 01:11:13.500 Screw you all if you don't want to be there. 01:11:14.360 --> 01:11:18.480 Oh, October 21st, there's a BINREV meeting, Framingham, Massachusetts. 01:11:19.720 --> 01:11:22.680 Details are on the site and the forums under the meetings category. 01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:29.380 And I'm going to have a little more information next week regarding the local, 01:11:29.380 --> 01:11:34.140 for the 617-978-781ers, about the Bukake meeting. 01:11:35.900 --> 01:11:36.720 That's all for me. 01:11:37.420 --> 01:11:37.960 Yes, yes. 01:11:38.020 --> 01:11:39.720 We started a new group in Boston. 01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:48.320 It's the Boston users of cool computers and crazy electronics, otherwise known as Bukake. 01:11:50.080 --> 01:11:50.820 Oh, God. 01:11:52.440 --> 01:11:53.420 There's my announcements. 01:11:54.020 --> 01:11:55.540 Do we have the website up yet? 01:11:56.620 --> 01:11:57.300 No, it's not. 01:11:57.640 --> 01:11:58.320 Oh, it's not up yet. 01:11:58.360 --> 01:11:59.220 Okay, we'll save the website. 01:11:59.420 --> 01:12:01.500 I'll make the announcement as soon as we have the website up. 01:12:02.180 --> 01:12:02.420 All right. 01:12:02.460 --> 01:12:04.600 Also, when's the next blue meeting? 01:12:07.180 --> 01:12:08.260 Who cares? 01:12:09.720 --> 01:12:14.540 The Boston Linux user group is having a meeting eventually. 01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:15.900 Hold on, hold on. 01:12:16.140 --> 01:12:21.120 Yeah, if anybody from Massachusetts actually cares, there's a website called BugC. 01:12:21.320 --> 01:12:24.720 It's B-U-G-C.org, I believe. 01:12:24.940 --> 01:12:28.480 And it lists all of the Boston area user groups and their meetings. 01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:30.100 Oh. 01:12:30.100 --> 01:12:37.280 Boston Linux user group, October 19th, will be having the meeting at 7 p.m., MIT Building 01:12:37.280 --> 01:12:39.340 E-5-1, Room 3-1-5. 01:12:39.420 --> 01:12:42.960 It's going to be Ubuntu Linux with Benjamin McOhill. 01:12:43.640 --> 01:12:44.500 Oh, fuck that. 01:12:44.740 --> 01:12:46.020 In the 3-1-5 area. 01:12:46.840 --> 01:12:48.480 Will they be serving punch and pie? 01:12:48.480 --> 01:12:51.120 I'm not sure if punch and pie will be served. 01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:52.660 Oh, all right. 01:12:53.320 --> 01:12:56.040 Boy, our announcement section just sort of delved into chaos. 01:12:57.540 --> 01:13:00.760 Yeah, I think, actually, Karsh carried all my announcements. 01:13:01.700 --> 01:13:02.260 One more. 01:13:03.540 --> 01:13:10.820 You know, if you go to 2600, you know, from a different area code, come down to pound 2600 01:13:10.820 --> 01:13:20.340 United on EFNAT, you can go to the website, right, it's www.boston2600.org slash united. 01:13:21.380 --> 01:13:26.600 Might be down at the moment, but it should be up rather shortly. 01:13:27.460 --> 01:13:31.420 You can email me at 2600united at gmail.com. 01:13:31.880 --> 01:13:32.740 You know, say what's up. 01:13:33.060 --> 01:13:36.440 You know, tell us what meeting you're from, what you're working on, and all that other 01:13:36.440 --> 01:13:36.760 stuff. 01:13:37.480 --> 01:13:38.680 You know, love to hear from you. 01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:39.820 I hope we do. 01:13:40.820 --> 01:13:48.700 Yes, if you're active in 2600, email 2600united at gmail.com, and just say who you are, where 01:13:48.700 --> 01:13:52.000 you're from, and when you're meeting at, because we're just trying to do a nice comprehensive 01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:52.360 list. 01:13:55.240 --> 01:13:57.540 So, I guess that's it. 01:13:57.560 --> 01:13:58.400 Do we have any other announcements? 01:14:00.420 --> 01:14:00.700 No. 01:14:01.280 --> 01:14:01.760 Cat sex. 01:14:02.400 --> 01:14:02.940 Yes, okay. 01:14:03.300 --> 01:14:03.960 We'll edit that out. 01:14:05.420 --> 01:14:05.820 Shouts. 01:14:07.820 --> 01:14:08.320 I don't know. 01:14:08.320 --> 01:14:10.220 I'm going to send just regular shouts out to everyone. 01:14:10.620 --> 01:14:11.280 You know who you are. 01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:14.540 Shouts to the hack and slash, who sucks. 01:14:14.740 --> 01:14:15.680 Hack and slash sucks. 01:14:15.980 --> 01:14:20.560 Going to have a hack and slash sucks episode coming up soon, just for him. 01:14:21.520 --> 01:14:25.560 I don't know why I said that, but it was something that we were discussing on the channel. 01:14:25.780 --> 01:14:26.120 I don't know why. 01:14:26.140 --> 01:14:26.920 I have to live up to it. 01:14:27.340 --> 01:14:28.880 Yeah, we're going to have a hack and slash sucks episode. 01:14:28.960 --> 01:14:32.700 We're going to have hack on the radio show and just say hack and slash sucks the entire 01:14:32.700 --> 01:14:33.000 time. 01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:35.180 That'll be episode 125. 01:14:35.460 --> 01:14:35.860 There we go. 01:14:37.580 --> 01:14:38.420 Strom, do you have any shouts? 01:14:40.240 --> 01:14:43.640 Shouts to everyone whom I've promised shouts in the past. 01:14:45.320 --> 01:14:45.720 Stalin? 01:14:46.600 --> 01:14:52.100 Uh, shouts out to mostly, uh, uh, all the dudes in the, uh, the 617 area, you know, Boston 01:14:52.100 --> 01:14:53.700 2600 and such. 01:14:55.500 --> 01:14:58.560 Yeah, and that's, uh, uh, huh? 01:14:58.900 --> 01:14:59.100 Okay. 01:14:59.640 --> 01:14:59.960 All right. 01:15:00.740 --> 01:15:01.140 Koresh? 01:15:01.940 --> 01:15:03.580 Yeah, I'm, um, going for the same. 01:15:03.780 --> 01:15:05.260 Shouts to the whole Boston family. 01:15:05.880 --> 01:15:06.860 Sliced niggas especially. 01:15:08.160 --> 01:15:13.100 And, uh, also shout out to my lady friend who was cool enough to not give me shit about 01:15:13.100 --> 01:15:15.620 staying home and being on a goddamn radio show tonight. 01:15:16.180 --> 01:15:17.060 Indeed, indeed. 01:15:17.320 --> 01:15:19.460 A fine example of code switching if I've ever heard one. 01:15:20.560 --> 01:15:20.920 Okay. 01:15:20.920 --> 01:15:22.260 Um, site of the week. 01:15:22.360 --> 01:15:27.000 We got this off the, the white supremacist, uh, uh, uh, radio show site. 01:15:27.320 --> 01:15:29.840 It's, uh, privatewebhosting.org. 01:15:29.840 --> 01:15:36.240 And it's a private web hosting organization for straight, white, non-Jews. 01:15:36.260 --> 01:15:36.500 Oh, yeah. 01:15:36.520 --> 01:15:40.340 I think, I think Strom's eliminated from that big time. 01:15:41.080 --> 01:15:42.040 Oh, yes, yes. 01:15:42.520 --> 01:15:46.140 Do you need to send in, like, a blood sample if you want to, if you want to register? 01:15:46.860 --> 01:15:47.280 I don't know. 01:15:47.300 --> 01:15:47.980 It's a good question. 01:15:49.260 --> 01:15:52.180 Do you have, do you have to take a picture of, like, you know, your, you know, site of 01:15:52.180 --> 01:15:55.060 the faith to see, uh, you know, how big the nose is and such, you know. 01:15:55.060 --> 01:15:55.660 Oh, yeah, yeah. 01:15:55.660 --> 01:15:57.300 Do you have to see if you pass the test? 01:15:57.300 --> 01:16:01.660 You have to also send in a video of yourself screwing a woman, so you're definitely sure 01:16:01.660 --> 01:16:02.240 you're not gay. 01:16:03.320 --> 01:16:04.020 Yes, exactly. 01:16:04.160 --> 01:16:04.600 Oh, Jesus. 01:16:08.280 --> 01:16:09.160 Yes, yes. 01:16:09.280 --> 01:16:10.600 Just, just visit this website. 01:16:10.720 --> 01:16:13.480 It's just, it's, it's, it's a fun, it's a, it's a hilarious look. 01:16:14.580 --> 01:16:17.520 Um, email, as always, radio at binrev.com. 01:16:17.620 --> 01:16:19.000 And, uh, what's, what's our voicemail? 01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:26.000 The voicemail number is area code 213-415-1047. 01:16:26.180 --> 01:16:27.000 Let me repeat that again. 01:16:27.500 --> 01:16:28.440 Get your pencils out. 01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:35.320 It's area code 213-415-1047. 01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:38.440 I wonder if people would send us more voicemail if we had a toll-free number for it. 01:16:39.040 --> 01:16:40.600 Perhaps we can, maybe we'll set that up. 01:16:41.080 --> 01:16:41.200 Yeah. 01:16:41.200 --> 01:16:44.780 Um, closing music tonight is the, is from that same website I sent out last week. 01:16:44.860 --> 01:16:50.320 It's the Mega Man 3 Blue Nighting OC Remix, which I, I, I think is my second favorite song 01:16:50.320 --> 01:16:51.540 on there compared to last week's. 01:16:52.920 --> 01:16:56.200 So, as always, farewell and see you next week. 01:16:56.440 --> 01:16:58.260 Same hack time, same hack channel. 01:16:58.260 --> 01:16:58.360 Bye. 01:16:58.620 --> 01:16:59.160 Bye. 01:16:59.200 --> 01:17:01.000 Bye. 01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:02.920 Bye. 01:17:02.920 --> 01:17:03.220 Bye. 01:17:03.580 --> 01:17:03.760 Bye. 01:17:03.860 --> 01:17:03.920 Bye. 01:17:17.780 --> 01:17:18.280 Bye. 01:17:20.420 --> 01:17:20.440 Bye. 01:17:25.280 --> 01:17:25.780 Bye. 01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:26.400 Bye. 01:17:26.920 --> 01:17:26.940 Bye. 01:17:26.940 --> 01:17:27.840 Bye. 01:17:28.260 --> 01:17:58.240 Thank you. 01:17:58.260 --> 01:18:28.240 Thank you. 01:18:28.260 --> 01:18:58.240 Thank you. 01:18:58.260 --> 01:19:28.240 Thank you. 01:19:28.260 --> 01:19:58.240 Thank you. 01:19:58.260 --> 01:20:28.240 Thank you. 01:20:28.260 --> 01:20:58.240 Thank you. 01:20:58.260 --> 01:21:28.240 Thank you. 01:21:28.260 --> 01:21:58.240 Thank you. 01:21:58.260 --> 01:22:28.240 Thank you. 01:22:28.260 --> 01:22:58.240 Thank you. 01:22:58.260 --> 01:23:28.240 Thank you. 01:23:28.260 --> 01:23:58.240 Thank you. 01:23:58.260 --> 01:24:28.240 Thank you. 01:24:28.260 --> 01:24:58.240 Thank you. 01:24:58.260 --> 01:25:28.240 Thank you. 01:25:28.260 --> 01:25:58.240 Thank you.