This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you
in a fag phone, in your digital stance getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in
my six foe, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable, on the
out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a
hero, in a flash I'll screw you on burning dreamcast, you need some ISO, let me through
my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught
the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's
all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling
your phones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ leaves you flat on your
back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and
crack, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial code, source code, ISO,
RAN, SIP, SIP, SIP.
Hello and welcome to Pioneer Revolution Radio, episode 117 for October 11th, 2005.
I'm Strom Carlson.
I'm Black Ratchet.
We have two guests this week, both from Boston 2600.
We have Koresh and Stalin.
Say hi, guys.
Hi.
Koresh has been on the show before talking about the meetings and everything.
We have Stalin's a bin rev version.
Woo!
Yes, we're going to have the towel party after the show.
We're deflowering Stalin.
I've always wanted to deflower a Soviet leader.
Oh, goddammit.
That sounds unfun.
You know, we need to find out, like, a term for that fetish.
Obsessed about, you know, Soviet philia?
Soviet leaders.
The Cold War era was so fun, you know, kind of just waiting for impending doom to fall upon us.
You know, just thinking whether Brezhnev is going to have a decent day or not.
You know, it keeps me going.
Well, don't worry, because if there is a nuclear attack, you can always hide under the desk.
No, there's too many computers under it right now at this point.
I can't really fit under it at this point.
Yeah, but they'll absorb all the EMP stuff.
Actually, talking about nuclear attack, this actually happened about a month or so ago.
Cipher X, who was from, he's a jarhead, he's from the Marine Corps and recently exited.
He sent me a scan of one of his field manuals, and it says,
In the event of a nuclear attack and you are exposed and have no shelter, you are supposed to lie on the ground and put your feet toward the blast and just sit there until the shockwave passes.
That sounds effective.
Yeah.
Are you all supposed to put a paper bag over your head or something?
No, see, if you dig a hole and put your head in it, you know, if you don't see it, it never really happens.
Oh, well, that's my theory to life anyway.
I tell Crush this all the time.
It's like, you know, don't look at the package, you know, of item X you're buying, you know, or else, you know, you probably won't be able to eat it.
And, you know, man doesn't listen, but I think it's a pretty decent ideology, a decent way to look at life.
Don't read the package labels.
Yeah, it's always a good thing.
Just ostrich syndrome.
If you don't see it, it's not there.
Exactly.
All right, let's get into housekeeping.
Yay!
Let's see.
Our one housekeeping announcement is I was cruising in the car day and I heard on WBZ 1030 AM that Yahoo was getting into the podcasting – I forget the term they used.
I think it was like – shoot, I don't know what they were calling it.
They were using some type of snazzy term like, you know, trend or – they were making it sound like this really cool thing that was happening on the Internet and all of you should be envious of what's happening and you're not there.
So I checked it out and technically I guess we're already listed or if you do a search for BINREV radio, we have all kinds of hits for the podcasts.
But none of the podcasts actually work because the two that they always reference seem to be 404 hours.
So I submitted us.
Hopefully in the next couple of days they'll be adding us and you can go search us out at http colon slash slash audio dot search dot yahoo dot com.
Hopefully you can spell that.
Yeah.
Audio.
A-U-D-I-O.
If you don't know what the yahoo dot com is –
What, .mx doesn't work or, you know, .co.jp doesn't work?
You know, what about all the people that don't live in the States?
You know, what about that?
That's a good question.
I don't know if we're working for all the other – because I know it's like yahoo dot co.jp and –
Screw them.
Screw all the foreigners.
It doesn't matter.
I got this web hosting for you later in the show.
Okay.
So, yeah, let's get into the email.
That's about it for things.
Let's go into the email.
Hey, Black Ratchets, Tom Carlson, and Insert Guest here.
First of all, love the show.
I was listening to episode 116, and you were having a discussion on the performance rating that AMD gives their chips.
First of all, let me just say up front, I am an AMD fan, so take this as coming from one.
But they are very correct in saying their clock speed does not indicate performance.
The AMD 3000 Plus is a higher clock speed than the 3200 Plus, but the 3200 Plus performs better in nearly every test I have seen.
Also, Intel is doing this with their new processors as well.
A quote from Wikipedia.
Because of the philosophy change, a Pentium 4 clocked at 3.0 GHz with a 1 MB L2 cache could now outperform a 3.4 GHz Pentium 4 with 512 KB L2 cache.
Clock speeds could no longer solely differentiate the performance of different Pentium 4s.
As a result, Intel has adopted a PR rating of its own using three-digit numbers.
Intel now faces the challenge of making consumers compare its processors based on PR ratings rather than raw clock speed.
Ironically, a problem which Intel created for itself.
Check it out here at tinyurl.com slash bravo3...
Tinyurl...
Bravo 3...
3...
8...
Sierra, Sierra, Sierra.
No, the 3.8 just messed me up for some reason.
That, once again, that's tinyurl.com slash bravo3...
8...
Sierra, Sierra.
Yes.
Anyways, keep up the good work, love the show, love more of the phone content.
Also, if you wouldn't mind, I'm interested in organizing a BINREV meeting in Southern California in the Victorville-Hesperia-Apple Valley area.
Could you please announce this on the show and ask anyone interested to email klistplusmeeting at gmail.com?
I would appreciate it a lot.
Oh, and if you do read this on the air, shout out to Siaskul Lochelesko...
What is it?
Psychosoul, Lochoisloco, and Danathor.
I'm not even going to attempt to pronounce those again.
Lord Kalis.
Smiley face.
Yes, I'm standing corrected.
I usually stand by my whole measuring, you know, CPU support.
I stand by my statement of CPU performance measuring is completely subjective.
It's, I literally, I took two courses on this in school on why this is so hard, and there are dozens upon dozens of standards out there since, like, 1970, even before that, people measuring performance.
You know, the special things that are counted in one aren't counted in others.
There's all kinds of special terms.
There's MIPS, there's FLOPs, whetstones, drystones, clock speed, cache.
There's 15 ways until Sunday that you can measure CPU performance, and just measuring them on one test will say that it's better than another chip, but if you run another test on them, it'll say it's worse than other chips.
So, I'm leaving you with kind of my own take on an old saying.
There are lies, damn lies, and CPU performance specs.
I think everyone agrees with that, I hope.
Yep, yep.
And also, this also kind of, this just occurred to me, this also kind of proves that overclockers are really silly.
Just, you know, increasing your clock speed is not going to basically increase your CPU performance.
Thank you very much.
Yay!
But, man, you can get, like, an extra two to three frames per second on Quake, man.
You know, like, that, you know, two to three frames per second, you know, will totally make you a better gamer.
Exactly.
But, Hank, that's kind of always been the, you know, the philosophy of anyone who tweaks every last possible ounce of performance out of their, you know, computer or car or whatever, you know.
Their Gen 2 box.
Yeah, exactly, right.
You make your initial upgrade, which gives you this enormous leap in speed, and then you start tweaking it and tweaking it and spend inordinate amounts of time and money going for that extra one cycle a second or one mile an hour, you know, or one pound foot of torque or whatever.
You know, this just occurred to me.
I don't think we've had an episode yet where people haven't mentioned Gen 2.
We'll have to try that next time to see if we can have an episode of Gen 2.
I guess so, because we're just, we've lost already.
Yeah.
See, I didn't.
Go ahead, Scott.
You mentioned frame rates before?
Note that down.
Edit that out.
Yeah, I know.
I already did.
You mentioned frame rates?
Stalin did?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, I just want to thank whoever out there ported Duke Nukem 3D to Mac OS X.
You kind of made my shitty week a little bit better.
Really?
You can run Duke Nukem 3D on Mac OS?
It is a special port of it for OS X.
Wow.
Seriously, find the URL and put that in your personal hacking stories, because I really would like to try that.
Cool.
Oh, yeah, I can send it over to you.
It's pretty damn small, I mean, comparatively.
So it's great.
How do you switch weapons?
There's no right mouse.
Everything's on the keyboard.
I'm still in the process of mapping everything out in the best way, especially on a compact keyboard like that.
It's a real pain in the ass.
I can imagine.
No, but you can control click.
Yeah, I know.
Tell me about it.
Seriously, the whole...
Haven't we already mentioned this?
The whole having one mouse key is like being born with one nipple?
I don't know if you've said that personally, but that's pretty amusing.
So, yeah, that sounds cool.
Also, yeah, as far as starting a BINREV meeting in the high desert of Southern California, that would be pretty cool.
I know there are a couple people who come all the way to the LA 2600 meetings and EC2N3 meetings from, like, the El Cajon Pass area.
So I'm pretty sure they would appreciate having something closer to home.
However, I'm not sure how terribly successful you're going to be, simply because I know that there have been maybe at least one attempt at doing a DC 909 group.
And that has consistently just fallen apart.
So best of luck, and email me if you want any help, because I run the DC 213 meeting, and I'd be more than happy to help you organize that.
Also, perhaps the entire thing could be that, you know, they just don't have a good organizer.
Perhaps KLS could be the driving force between BINREV 909 or whatever you want to call it.
It would be BINREV 760, in fact.
BINREV 760?
KLS, we'll put you in the announcements for the next couple of shows.
Isn't there, like, five or six different, like, 2600 meetings in California?
There's some pretty ridiculous number of 2600 meetings in California.
Well, I know there's one in San Diego, there's one in San Francisco, there's one in Los Angeles.
I think there's one, like, in Orange County somewhere.
Also, I hear California is pretty big.
Yeah.
Don't forget, the Los Angeles metropolitan area, you know, just Los Angeles County and Orange County combined are, like, what, 25, 30 million people?
So...
Not bad.
It's crazy.
So, yeah, I can understand there being tons of meetings.
Yeah, well...
I think Stalin should move back out there.
Maybe he can get, like, an, I don't know, ESL version of the meetings going on.
What do you think?
Might be mildly successful in the Southern California area.
For those of you who don't know Stalin, Stalin is Mexican.
He's very proud of that fact.
How often do you go back to Mexico?
About once every year.
Once every year?
That was more often than that.
I don't know, no.
I tend to stay away.
We can have, like, an ESL...
We can do...
Here's what we can do.
At the Boston 2800, we can have an ESL version of Stalin doing the translating.
I'm not making fun of ESL, nor non-English, non-native English speakers.
I mean, like, it shouldn't be that bad in California, you know, since most, you know...
You know, prerequisite to live in California, you kind of have to know Spanish, so I think
everybody can handle it down there.
But, you know, Boston, on the other hand, you know, that shit isn't a requirement, so...
You know, you have to pick up on the not seeing our stuff, and, you know...
But, yeah, I think I could manage an ESL talk.
I mean, why don't we have more, you know, real Boston people come into the meetings around
here?
As opposed to those fake Boston people that we currently have, huh?
Yeah, like all of us.
I'm born and raised in Boston.
Yeah, but you don't sound like it.
I want to have some real Boston people, you know what I mean?
No, I'll go.
We can get that announcer from that Discovery Channel fire show they're doing in Boston.
Yes.
And I was...
Oh.
The announcer does a fake Boston accent during the entire show, and it just hits me and
just grates on me.
Oh, it's horrible.
I've heard amazing things.
Oh, man.
Well, we're really drifting here, so let's just go on and move on to the next...
Before we move on to the next email, again, that email address is kahlessplusmeeting,
that's K-A-H-L-E-S-S plusmeeting at gmail.com.
Yeah, we'll put that in announcements, too.
We'll toss you in the announcements for the next couple of weeks.
Yeah.
Because, hey, you know, more BINREF meetings are equal to good.
Our next email tonight is from Madar, M-A-D-A-R.
So, I have an asterisk question, which would seem to be simple, but I'm having a dog of a time
kneeling it down in a solid answer online.
My question is regarding SIP phones inside of a LAN.
What exactly is the deal here?
I understand that SIPs don't play well with NAT, and I pretty much understand why it's an issue.
SIP can't be bound to a specific port, Etsy.
However, I don't understand why you can't have, or can you, a SIP phone inside the network
that talks to asterisk, while asterisk translates into eeks, and then connects outside my router
to a service, i.e., EFWD.
I'm assuming they can speak IAX.
Could you please break this down for me a bit?
I'm living in Taiwan, and I have seen a SIP phone in shops, an Art Dio IPF 2000, I believe.
I'm tempted to pick one up, however, it's not terribly cheap.
If I'm not going to be able to get out of my land to reach my family and friends in other parts of the world,
it's going to be pretty useless to me.
I'm pretty sure that this is going to be worked around, but I hate to drop cash only to find out that I'm wrong.
Thanks in advance, Madar.
P.S., stop talking about freaking phones already.
Stop talking about phones and a phone question?
Oh, my gosh, what will they ever do?
I think I'm going to explode now.
My head's going to explode.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, thank you for the mail.
I'm pretty sure this is – if you're not the first Taiwanese listener we've heard of,
certainly the first one who's sent us email.
So, yay, we're international.
I can't believe all the way in Taiwan.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Anyway, what you're talking about is perfectly doable.
In fact, Ratchet and I do exactly that.
We have SIP phones on our desks that talk to our asterisk boxes, which then talk to each other via eek.
So it's very doable, and it's really ridiculously easy to do.
It's seamless as well.
I mean, pretty much you just set up in your configuration that the SIP phone acts as an extension off your asterisk box,
and then the asterisk box switch you to the eek trunk.
It's very easy.
All it's just done in your configs.
You can specify it right out.
To be honest, it doesn't even show – it doesn't even register to me that this is happening.
It's completely seamless.
Well, I mean, like –
What's so surprising about Taiwan?
Pardon?
What's so surprising about him being from Taiwan?
I mean, everything in my PC right now was made there in the first place.
Well, I mean, given that this is mainly an English-language show,
and it's, you know, for the most part within the context of the North American continent,
we try and have international perspective, but this is still kind of interesting to me, you know?
It's just pretty cool in general.
Mm-hmm.
The next email is from Lumi, and it says,
The really cool Mac supercomputer is at Virginia Tech.
Originally, they used G5 dual processors and just bought a ton of them.
When the X-Serve came out, they bought a ton of those as well to replace the G5s.
There's a movie on it available at the following site,
and that's apple.com slash hardware slash video slash Virginia Tech.
A really quick note on RAID.
RAID 0 is striped.
RAID 1 is mirrored.
Some controllers can do RAID 0 plus 1, which is a mirrored stripe.
Finally, in regards to the Pixar air conditioners and having to manually shut down the computers,
my friend just recently acquired a managed power bar that he can tell it into and shut down power cycle computers from remotely.
Sure would have helped a lot with Pixar.
Regards, Lumi.
Well, Lumi, thanks for cleaning that up.
I always get confused about, you know, striping, mirroring, mirroring and striping.
And when you get to RAID 5, I completely lose it.
It's like RAID 5 mirrored striping plus parity or some such nonsense.
I know how RAID 5 works.
I know how RAID 4 works, 3, 2, and 1, and 0.
They all work.
I just don't know the damn terms.
I got to say, those power strips you're talking about are very badass.
I've seen them in use, and they are just the coolest things ever for a hung machine that's physically dead.
However, the problem with the manual shutdown is that in order to graciously take a machine down,
you can't just unplug it.
That's essentially of, like, putting someone to sleep by snapping their neck.
It's something you just don't do.
However, like, one of the things that I always want to do is I just want to have one of those manageable power outlet type things
and plug my DSL modem into it.
And if one of my servers detects that I don't have Internet, it will just automatically power cycle it for me,
which is always really annoying when I'm at work and my DSL connection goes down
and I can't access any of my machines on my LAN, and it makes me sad.
But, you know, that's what I want.
However, I don't think that's ever going to happen anytime soon,
because these things cost gobs and gobs and gobs of money.
Well, you just need to win the lottery like the rest of us.
Ah, yes, yes, indeed.
Do you want to read the next email, and I can do my well-rehearsed answer?
Sure, sure.
Hey, Black Ratchet, Strom, and any other co-hosts.
I found this story on the MyGOT forums.
I guess that's how you pronounce that.
I assume so.
Yeah.
Some guy said that while taking apart his laptop to replace a broken PCMCIA riser,
he found a hardware key logger that was wired to his Ethernet card
that would send keys to the Department of Homeland Security.
Here's the link.
TinyURL.com slash 7EchoGolf72.
I'm learning.
Crazy stuff.
Do you think that the government is trying to spy on people?
I wouldn't doubt it.
But anywho, I have a good idea for an episode,
maybe a good wholehearted episode all about freaking payphones old school
and other freaks or fun.
Love, termite.
Wow, that was a random ending.
I like the old school freaks or fun.
Yeah.
I don't know what the hell that is, so we'll get back to you on that.
So if you're listening to the show, I'll give you a second to bring up this web page.
Bear in mind, I wouldn't visit it from work, and I will tell you the reason why.
So I'll give you a second to bring it up.
Okay.
I hope you had fast fingers.
Wow.
Well, let me say, this is really, really, really fishy.
So, well, first off, this whole website is based off of a guy's website
who's an anti-government white power talk show host.
Not that this discounts it outright.
Well, I'll just say that I took it with a very, very, very, very, very, very, very large grain of salt.
Well, okay, next, I have never seen a laptop ever with a shield wire going between the keyboard and the system board
like he's the one showing right there in the, I don't know what he says, the little pictures he has there.
I've seen small wires going from the laptop to the system board around 1997 or so,
but anything past, like, 2000 that I have seen has some type of ribbon cable
or some type of kind of, like, flat data film.
I'm not sure exactly what they call it.
It's this really flat, plastic-y thing, and it looks like a sheet of paper, really.
Third, if this gizmo is hooked into the Ethernet card, it can't magically talk into the Internet.
Ethernet is designed for local LAN transmission.
This isn't going to go and do, you know, the government well unless you're sitting right on your LAN.
Fourth, if this is correct, the keyboard, or KeyGhost keyboard logger, that's what he calls it, right?
Yes.
It's hooked into the Ethernet board, and there is little to no way for this thing to talk to the network
without killing your Ethernet connection.
Well, technically not.
You can't piggyback it onto your existing Ethernet.
It will quite literally break your network.
Fifth, I really loved this quote.
I called the police, as having a key logger unknown to me in my laptop is a serious offense.
They told me to call the Department of Homeland Security.
Now, I can picture this conversation at the precinct.
We got, like, some guy answering the phone, and a sergeant sitting right behind him,
and he just turns around and says, you know, Sarge, I got this guy on line one.
He's talking about, like, this key logger in his laptop.
What should I do?
And the sergeant, like, probably, like, thinks there for a second, oh, man, like, tell him to call the Department of Homeland Security.
It's going to, like, really blow his mind.
And I can just see this happening because, like, I always heard this story about this guy, you know,
constantly harassing the police department about how aliens are sending, like, evil signals controlling his brain.
And one of the cops finally told him, here's what you do.
You take your tinfoil, you cover yourself in it, and you make sure the shiny side's out,
and everything will stop going into your brain.
And he called back, like, a day later saying, thank you very much.
I don't know if it's true.
I really don't know.
But it's a humorous story nonetheless.
So, finally, getting Freedom of Information Act request approved, it's insanely hard to do in any type of form of law enforcement agency.
It's a law of the land, and it's cool, and you always get some stuff out eventually.
But the law says you can't get stuff, items relating to national security.
As we all know, national security is lovely and an all-encompassing term that can include anything
ranging from the color of the presidential underwear to the lunch menu at the Langley Falls High School.
Oh, come on. We all know Bushwear's smiley face underwear.
We'll have a nice day.
My opinion is, I'm not sure about anyone else. Take it as you will.
Something like this is sort of kind of possible, I guess, if you really wanted to try it,
but not as complex as he's talking about it.
And this exactly thing is just, grade, a total, 100% complete bullshit.
Well, I mean, like, all right, so, you know, you said the dude was a skinhead radio host, or, yeah.
So, you know, so let's say, you know, maybe the dude's under investigation.
I could see a possible key logger, but as a kind of a general kind of,
it's on everybody's machine kind of situation, I don't see that.
You know, that's very true. I didn't actually think of that.
But he says he's repairing his own PC card riser, or PCMCIA riser.
And if someone installed that, that means they'd have to basically take his laptop,
crack it open, re-solder this little thing in between there,
and somehow figure out how to connect it to his Ethernet card.
I think the whole function of his existence is to increase the general level of paranoia
and uncertainty in the public consciousness.
Oh, that's exactly what it is.
Yeah, so this just fits in with that so perfectly.
It would seem like, you know, one of the case scenarios would just be like,
he's trying to credit himself a bit better, you know, like, you know, to be like,
oh, you know, the government's kind of after me, so, you know,
I do have some sort of credit because the government is looking into me, so.
He wants his 15 minutes of fame.
Yeah.
And, you know, shit like that seems silly to me, but, you know.
Yeah, it's silly.
Yeah, I don't buy it.
I don't buy it either.
I think, I heard this story, and actually it was from a Tom Clancy novel,
but he said that it was actually happening in real life,
that the Israeli secret intelligence, in order to assassinate a terrorist once,
he bought his cell phone in to be serviced,
and they replaced it with an identical cell phone that worked completely,
but it had a bomb attached, and it would only, like, explode if you basically called it
and imported a certain DTMF sequence.
And I just find that interesting, but I guess theoretically it could happen.
Yeah, I mean, theoretically, sure, probably.
Come on, who takes your cell phone to get serviced these days?
Well, this was back in the early 90s when you had these.
Ah, okay.
It was a StarTAC flip phone, allegedly.
Ah, and it cost, like, $4,000.
Yeah.
So, actually, when you got it serviced.
So, yeah, take this as it is.
Look at the pictures.
Form your own opinions.
I'm not saying I'm preaching everything.
You never know.
The Department of Homeland Security could have everything evil and stuff.
But I really don't think so.
I love that.
But, you know, just the wiring job itself, personally, I think it's stupid.
Either way.
You know, like, also, like, you know, there's a much, like, so they have the little module in there,
and, you know, it could work as a keylogger, but, like, you know,
it's still an actual physical piece of hardware when, you know,
you could be much more sneaky.
Like, I've read papers on how people have written, like, basically BIOS patches.
You know, you can infect the BIOS, and you could have, you know, code in there that, you know,
once your machine gets turned on, you know, you can basically execute this little piece of code on there.
But, you know, that, to me, would be a much cooler way to handle a keylogger of sorts, you know,
to really be sneaky.
It would be a much cooler route, you know.
You just cost me $6,000.
$6,000.
So, yeah, well, also, also, now that you mention that with the whole BIOS patches and everything,
it's a whole lot easier because there's apparently a piece of government spyware called,
I believe it's called Magic Lantern,
and allegedly all the antivirus companies, well, maybe not all of them,
but definitely Symantec, McAfee, and there was some other major one out there that I can't remember right now.
They all agreed, basically, that you put a backdoor in their code that says,
if you see this, it's not a virus, ignore it.
It's officially, like, an electronic-sensitive gathering thingy.
Huh.
So, you never know.
It could be backdoored right now.
And I think it would be a whole lot easier to do that rather than take out this evil keylogs logger thingy.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Time for hacking stories?
Yeah, I think so.
We're kind of just sort of ranting and raving on this.
Well, I'll stir it off, as always.
This Sunday, I went to the grand opening of the New Hampshire Telephone Museum.
Ooh.
With Red Nerd.
And I have pictures up on my website if you want to check it out.
I took gratuitous photos of the various phones they have there and their antique stepper switch.
It was a lot of fun, and I went up with my friend Red Nerd and I.
And we basically played along there and spent about two or three hours just sitting in this room with them and just talking to the guys and playing on their switch and locking up the step twice, and they had to clear it for us.
I generally just had a good time.
I have also been playing with a lot of ham radio stuff lately.
Nerd alert.
Hello, we're all nerds here.
You're talking about on a hacking radio show.
You're calling me the nerd.
What the hell, man?
Some people.
The nerd.
At some point, I will actually go ahead and narrate the high-quality digital recording I made at the Seattle Telephone Museum a year and a half ago.
Of the step and the number five and the number one crossbar on the panel.
We're all waiting.
Yes.
I was actually just happy because Strom very nicely sent me his raw copy, so I'll be listening to that while it work on Tuesday.
Yeah, I've got to work on it.
While probably editing the show.
Yeah, it's kind of unlistenable.
Anyway, my personal hacking story is I broke down and I bought one of those iPod battery replacement kits.
My cousin came to me and he said, my iPod only lasts an hour these days.
I said, well, let me try one of those battery replacement kits.
So I bought from, what is it, iPodjuice.com.
And it was a snap.
iPodjuice with a J?
Yeah, J-U-I-C-E.
Okay.
As in apple juice or orange juice or whatever.
And it was amazingly easy to open up the iPod, remove the old battery, stick in the new one, snap it back together, and charge it up.
You don't have to solder or anything?
No, no soldering.
Pretty much they give you a little blue plastic wedge doohickey thing that you squeeze in to the seam between the silvery part and the polycarbonate front.
And you just kind of slowly, you gently wrench the silvery bit away from the front.
And there are little tabs on the front part that snap into the metal bit in the back.
So you just snap those off, and pretty much the whole back comes off.
Interesting.
Yeah, you remove the hard drive, which is just a connector that snaps on.
And you unplug the old battery and replace it with the new one.
Hmm.
So assuming you don't have the shakes, it's a blast.
It's a breeze.
No, probably I do.
But I'm never going to be a neurosurgeon.
Look at it that way.
Probably why I can't solder either.
So, Stalin, have you done any computer hack story stuff this week?
Not really.
You know, just a lot of chilling.
But the hack story stuff, no.
I don't have any interesting stories this month or this week.
It's a really tell.
But you're just boring.
Yeah, I am.
You've got to get over it at some point.
Yeah.
What about you, Koresh?
I've been working on a lot of things in the last week.
I'm trying to bring myself back up from some personal dark spots.
I've been fixing on other people's computers, which is, you know, one of those things I just love to do.
Not really.
Pays the bills, man.
Yeah.
If anyone out there wants me to fix their computer, I don't recommend bringing it to me in the next couple of weeks,
because I'm going to tell you to screw.
So, I've been working on a website for a friend involving some do-it-yourself projects in the Boston area,
which is pretty cool, encompassing music and the arts and whatnot.
And it's actually really cool.
I'll let you guys know when it's all done.
Um, today I actually re-listened to Robert Steele's talk from The Last Hope,
because I missed half of it and never went back and listened to it,
and I'm kind of pissed off that I had to leave during it.
But, if you haven't heard it and you're actually, you know, interested in intelligence and whatnot,
I definitely recommend checking it out.
Well, what's the talk?
What was the talk?
Yeah.
Uh, I'll give you the title of it.
I think it's a long title.
Hang on.
Well, first off, what's it about?
I mean, because Robert Steele means nothing to me.
Oh, really?
I'm sorry.
Um, he's the guy who does all the, well, I don't really want to call it social engineering,
but he does all, he was like the former, uh, a former government official and, you know,
worked as, like, I don't want to say as a spy, but like a covert agent, whatever.
Was over in, uh, was over in Asia for a while,
and he just talks about just global intelligence and how the U.S. just falls short in, like, every category,
as far as what we could be doing compared to what we are.
The name of the talk was everything you wanted to know about spying 9-11 and why we continue to screw up.
I'll have to check that out.
And it's really, really long.
It's over four hours, but it's definitely worth checking out because it's in front of me.
Holy cow.
Yeah, that's why I was only able to stay for a couple of hours because I had other stuff to do that day.
I can imagine.
Well, that's cool.
Yes, definitely worth listening to.
I'll be sure to listen to that.
I'll put it right after, uh, Strom's, uh, Seattle Computer Museum tape.
So, telephone museum, not a computer museum.
Yeah, computer museum.
It's called the Communications Museum now, isn't it?
Yeah, the, um, it used to be the Seattle Telephone Museum.
Now I think it's called the Museum of Communications.
Yes, sorry.
So it was the Seattle Communications Museum is what I was trying to say.
I just, sort of, I guess I'm sort of hardwired to say computer.
You phone freak you.
Yes, so either way, our specific show topic tonight, we're talking about BSDs.
And that's not some type of strange STD you can pick up, and speaking of Southern Asia, but...
Oh, God.
It's like a Bangkok down there, you know.
It's a donkey show discussion here.
So, I, I know nothing about BSD, which is why, why Koresh and Stalin are on tonight, because they're apparently BSD geeks.
Not, not BSD geeks per se, but I dig, uh, BSD.
But, uh, you know, to start off, uh, inclusively open BSD, because that's kind of, like, what I use, uh, for server, server platforms and such.
Okay, well, let's, let's, let's start with the general question here.
What, what is BSD?
Uh, you know, BSD, uh, you know, develop, uh, at Berkeley, you know, Berkeley, uh, Berkeley, uh, Berkeley, uh...
Well, systems distribution, as far as I remember correctly.
Yeah, uh, I thought it was systems development or something like that.
Uh, yeah, but, you know, develop the, you know, BSD, and, you know, um, all kinds of work's been done on it, and, you know, basically at this point, it's just, uh, you know, it has become, uh, one of those OS's that, you know, people, uh, well, I should say probably, like, Slashot just kind of battles over.
Like, oh, you know, Linux is better, and BSD is better, and such.
Wasn't BSD dialing?
Uh, yeah, BSD.
I read that on Slashdot.
BSD's dying?
What?
Isn't BSD dying? I think I read that on Slashdot.
Uh, uh, people on Slashdot say a lot of things.
Wasn't, wasn't BSD based on AT&T System 5 Unix?
Uh, from my recollection, yes, but I might be wrong.
Um...
No, it, it was. He's right.
Yeah, but, um, at this point, you know, it's just a different kernel, um, that, you know, uh, a lot of people say Linux is a derivative of, uh, Unix.
It's very Unix, you know, Unix-based.
You know, uh, you know, the concept is, uh, you know, Linux is a different kernel, and, uh, you know, uh, the fucking OSes are just a, basically, a compilation of different tools based on the Linux kernel, so it's not really Unix-based.
It's, you know, it's, you know, it's own kind of thing, but...
Unix-like, that is.
Yeah, I mean, I take it, you know, as a derivative, derivative work of Unix, but, you know, a lot of people disagree with me.
Okay, so, the, the, the three BSDs that I know are OpenBSD, and NetBSD, and FreeBSD.
Do, do, do, I, I know, like, OpenBSD is some type of uber-secure distribution, but, but, what's the difference between the three?
Um, OpenBSD, you know, uh, you know, known for security.
I think they didn't have a remote, uh, vulnerability in, like, uh, in their default install for, like, eight years or something like that.
So, basically, they audit everything that's on their, uh, system.
It's just massive, massive code reviews, and, you know, that's what they're kind of known for, and it's a very solid distribution.
And, uh, FreeBSD, it's more for the, you know, still very acceptable as a server platform, but it's, you know, it's more usable, I would say, than, uh,
OpenBSD is just, in some cases, friendlier.
But, you know, it's still, it's still kind of a pain to set up and use, well, to me, anyway, because, what, uh, you know, one of my, you know,
the platform I use the most, I would say, is be Linux.
But when I have to use BSD, you know, I don't have a BSD box to work on.
But, uh, you know, just trying to get one of those things working properly is, you know, a pain in the ass.
And then there's NetBSD.
NetBSD is just kind of known for running on everything.
The, their thing is, uh, you know, you're, you know, uh, what's their slogan, uh, um, it probably runs, uh, NetBSD, or something.
Of course it runs NetBSD.
That's what it is.
Yeah.
And, you know, and, like, uh, I think, uh, I forget where I saw it.
Like, they, some, some dude made a toaster that ran NetBSD, and I was like, well, you know, they finally did it.
You know, everybody's been saying, you know, NetBSD probably runs on a toaster, and, you know, they finally pulled it off, and I was like, you know, good for them.
So, uh, a toaster, a toaster that toast spread runs NetBSD.
Yeah.
You know, you can, you know, be running your website while you toast.
Oh, not to get too far off topic here, um, in the latest issue of Wired,
they have a toaster that also poaches an egg and cooks a piece of Canadian bacon, all at the same time.
But does it run NetBSD?
Of course it can.
If it can do that, it can do anything.
Of course it can run NetBSD.
Yeah, uh, apparently it's a very, uh, minimalist, uh, OS.
Like, I was talking, uh, to one of, uh, Koresh's friends, and he's pretty big into NetBSD, and basically says, you know, it's very, very small, but, you know, they have, uh, I forget what they call their ports to, uh, their port server, and, you know, I found there's a lot of stuff on that.
Very, uh, you know, very nice.
And they also, it's, uh, cross-platform compatible, so you can basically run it on, you know, Linux as well, which is kind of cool.
I haven't tried it yet, but I am going to do it at some point, because, uh, I really like ports.
It's a, it's a nice system.
Like, uh, from the looks of it, it's just a, uh...
What is ports, exactly?
Ports, uh, is, uh, basically the, uh, package, uh, tool, uh, under, uh, well, not the package tool, it's the package, uh, the way to get packages, uh, for FreeBSD.
And, basically, you have, uh, a directory on your system called ports, and there's just a bunch of folders on there, uh, for the different tools you need.
So, let's say you need Apache, you go into ports, go into the Apache folder, and you build it, just make, make, install.
And, basically, what it does, it goes and touches the latest, well, probably not the latest, but the version that ports has, uh, from, you know, the distribution site, like Apache.
It'll go download Apache, but it also has a patch for it, so it can build properly under, uh, BSD, because there are, uh, differences between, uh, Linux and BSD that needs to, that you need to basically change in certain things for them to build properly.
I think, like, the sockets are a bit different, and shit like that, that you need to change in the source for it to properly build.
And, you know, it's very clean, you know, you, it's all from source, and it's very nice.
Usually, some of the ports get maintained by the BSD developers, and it's cool.
Like, some of, like, from what I've heard, some of the ports don't even work, though.
It's kind of buggy, uh, from, from reports of some people.
I haven't really had a problem with it.
Just recently, I couldn't get dsniff to build, but I haven't had, uh, dsniff, uh, build successfully under any platform for a while since LibNet changed their API.
But, you know, uh, you know, it's very cool, to say the least, and it just makes building packages under your system very easy.
And, you know, it's source-based, so, you know, all the geeks that love to, you know, throw the O3 flag in there, and the dash-OMG, and the, you know, dash-pwnage, uh, flags, you know, can have a little go at it.
Dude, if I ever make a software package, it's still going to have a dash-OMG option on it.
I don't know what it's going to do, but it'll be, like, like, override, something actually that does something.
It'll put it into script kitty mode.
Exactly.
There we go.
Yeah, it'll, uh, you know, it'll have, like, you know, BO2K running on it.
You know, we'll have some unique port of BO2K, and, you know, we'll just build it into the package.
Just to make things, make life easier for everybody.
So, so, I'm going to piss off a lot of people off here by saying this.
So, basically, what it is, it's Gen 2.
All it is, is basically a giant takeoff on the BSD port system.
Kind of.
Send your email to radio at binrev.com now.
Yeah, I mean, like, not really.
I mean, like, ports, you know, it's just, there's a set of packages, but, I mean, like, Gen 2, you know, their own little collective.
But, I mean, I guess the concept is the same.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, the concept is very similar, but, you know.
Yeah, but do you blame them?
Oh, I mean.
I don't blame them in the least.
Oh, no, no, no, I'm not saying it's actually a bad thing.
Oh, actually, it'd be, it'd be more similar to their Emerge system, where you're, like, Emerge, such and such package, and, you know, it downloads it and builds it.
And, and, basically, that's kind of the same concept, but without an actual tool and, you know, it's a, in directories and shit like that, so.
Okay, so, well, that, I mean, that's what I was shooting for, was the whole Emerge system, is where I was drawing the similarity.
So, basically, what ports is, is just sort of like a source repository, where there's no real automated tools.
It's just, you download the package, you unzip it, and install it from source, and it should, it hopefully will all work, as much as any software package could.
Yeah.
You know, just, you know, cross your fingers.
So, we're, we're saying right now that, um, BSD, well, like, net, net BSD, you can sort of, runs on anything, but, like, free BSD and open BSD are more server-based?
Yeah.
Rather than desktop?
Yeah, um, BSD, well, that's, what?
Yeah, they're, they're basically known for, uh, server stuff, um, not the friendliest desktop, I would say.
I mean, I've been trying to get, uh, I just got, like, I scored a new laptop, and I, I installed free BSD, because, on it, because I was like, hey, why not?
And, it's just a pain in the ass to get it to work, and it's not friendly at all.
Like, my philosophy, when it comes to the stuff, you know, Linux is for desktop, you know, BSD is for server, and that shit's just kind of worked out for me very, very well.
I've never had a problem with it, you know.
So, Linux desktop, very nice, you know, there's plenty of people working on it, and, you know, they keep me happy.
But, when it comes to BSD, they're, they're more anal when it comes to their development process.
So, you know, the base, you know, like, BSD system is just very, very closed, and so, it's very stable.
It's, uh, you know, not everybody just, uh, comes in, it's like, oh, dude, I totally wrote, you know, I'm taking this course, and, you know, I just learned this cool new trick,
and I'm just going to write this cool kernel module, and it's going to throw it in Linux.
Uh, no, it's, they're much more, you know, the source is much more closed, I would say.
I mean, it's still open source, but they're much more anal about their development process, and, you know, they, you know, it's, it's very stable for server,
but just getting the shit, like, uh, hardware compatibility, you know, most people run, you know, the, the big thing with Linux is, you know, uh, very,
it's kind of like the, kind of the hacker OS, you know, everybody kind of likes to develop under it, and so, you have a lot of hardware support,
like, you know, some dude goes and gets some video card, and, or, not video card, but, uh,
some software gives him on his device.
Yeah, so, and, you know, doesn't work, so, you know, oh, I'm going to write some module, and it's going to, and it's going to work, you know, fine,
and, you know, he writes it, and goes and throws it somewhere, and people are like, oh, that's cool,
you just added another module to the kernel source, to the latest, uh, tree build, and, you know,
it makes life easier, yes, but does it make a more stable kernel? Uh, I don't think so, but that's just,
that's my view on it, um, like, I've had a lot, a lot of success with the BSD servers, I mean,
ports, like, makes life easier, of course, but, you know, I would never want to run that OS as a desktop system.
Okay, so, basically, basically, what it is, is, while the kernel is open, for most of the BSDs, uh,
what it is, is, you're, kind of, the kernel development is very slow and deliberate, as opposed to willy-nilly,
and, and, all the kind of stuff that Linux has, like, there's no real, like, development branch for,
uh, free BSD, that is.
Yeah.
Not, not, not, in order to upgrade the kernel, in order to make a patch on the kernel,
you have to have a damn good reason to do so.
Yeah, you, uh, you know, you gotta know the dude, uh, you know, buy him a couple of beers,
and, uh, you know, if you're lucky, he might, uh, let you, uh, get in on the kernel,
but, you know, there's a good chance that he'd still tell you to go fuck yourself, but, uh,
The international currency.
Yeah.
So, that's, that's my take on it.
Okay, so, so, say, for example, I'm, I'm sitting there, I'm, I'm ready to jump from Windows.
What, what, I, I've never used Unix before, I'm ready to jump from Windows, what should I learn?
Uh, should I choose Linux first, or should I choose BSD first?
Like, what's, what's easier, and what, what should, what, what would, like, more suit me?
Uh, Linux, by, you know, huge margins.
Uh, BSD, you kind of need to know your shit, or it's going to eat you alive.
I mean, there's times where I go to my corner and cry, because they just whip my ass so hard
that I can't even handle it, and, you know, if you're new to the Unix environment,
Linux has these very nice, like, oh, Red Hat Linux, I mean, well, Fedora at this point,
and Android, you know, everything.
You're dating yourself.
And, uh, and, you know, it's very friendly, and, you know, it'll help you out through most of the way,
you know, you don't need to use the shell that often, and when you do, you know, you can pull up Google,
and, you know, it's, and, you know, a lot more people use it, I would think, than BSD,
because, you know, it's much friendlier.
And, you know, you'll have a much, a much more interesting time, you know, learning Linux
than you'll have fighting with BSD to do what you want.
And, you know, fighting is what you do with Linux, I mean, with BSD.
Linux, you kind of play around with fighting BSD.
You know, you'll have, you'll learn a lot more under Linux, because it's just easier to use.
And, you know, once you have that kind of learned, you can, you know, start, uh, you're picking up
on the subtle changes there is from BSD to Linux, and, you know, once you pick those up,
you know, you'll have no problem.
So, only experienced Linux users should use BSD.
Oh, yeah, that's, that's, uh, that's what I say.
Yeah, jumping into BSD for, before we jump into Linux is definitely a big mistake
for 99.9% of the people out there.
I mean, especially in a computer world where the distros are a hell of a lot friendlier
than they were when I was trying to get into it.
Amen.
I mean, these guided installations and stuff like this, like, I'm, I'm kind of jealous,
to tell you guys the truth.
So, uh, yeah, stick with the Linux for now and then work your way up.
Yeah, well, I mean, it, it, it very much sounds like, that, that's the impression I was getting
too, that basically BSD is, is sort of like Linux was, oh, I'd say about five years ago.
It, no, no nice graphical GUI installers.
It was very straightforward.
You basically, you downloaded Slackware on 20 floppy disks and you installed it and you
prayed to God at work.
Yeah, like, I think there's some teams that are trying to, like, bring, uh, BSD to the
desktop.
I think it's, I think that, uh, the project's called, like, Dragonfly, like, you know, don't
quote me on this, but there's, yeah, or PC BSD or some, something like that.
And they're trying to make the entire, the entire process friendlier and shit like that.
And, you know, I think it's a very nice goal, uh, you know, trying to make BSD much nicer.
But, uh, you know, at this point, I'd still, if you're new to it, I'd still stick with,
uh, Linux.
Just, just because of the hardware support, too.
Uh, I mean, you know, BSD support, you know, for hardware, you know, decent in some cases.
But, you know, if you don't have, like, an NVIDIA card or a 3Com card, uh, your life becomes
more difficult.
And, you know, if you're starting to get into it, you don't need, you don't need to
battle for hours to try to, oh, find this one dude that lives in Russia out in the middle
of Siberia, happens to write a module for BSD for your specific network card, and you
have to download it, patch it to your kernel, and it just gets sloppy.
And, you know, you, you probably have a much easier time just to go with Linux because
of the hardware support.
One more thing that I'm jealous about today is the fact that someone who wants to get started
these days could seriously go and buy a second box for, like, 50 bucks and just have a second
machine to experiment with.
Because when I was getting into this stuff, um, we only had one machine in my house because
computers back then were well over two grand, I'll say.
And, uh, there was no chance in hell of you having a second machine.
So today you can have your main machine and have the box you're experimenting on and just
switch back and forth.
And you can stay online and, you know, keep looking up anything, you know, any problems
you run into.
You can just research while you're playing with the second machine.
Oh, yeah.
See, and also if you're getting, just starting to get into Linux, um, that's probably one of
the better recommendations is just have, like, go get some dudes, P166, you know, throw, you
know, throw two network cards in it, throw Slackware, go look up, uh, how to use, you
know, IP tables or, you know, there's, there's a script out there called RC Firewall for Slackware
or, you know, it's not a Slackware thing, it's just a general Linux thing for IP tables and
you can, you can build this router at your, you know, at your table connection.
Like, this is how I got into Linux a couple of years ago was I built a router and threw
it on there and basically just, oh, I need to, I want to have a little web page and so
you start, you know, learning the different, you know, instances of, uh, Linux and, you
know, it's very cool because you're like, oh, I want to manipulate this and, you know,
you, you spend hours figuring out what you have to do to get it to go and it's, that's
probably, well, that's the way I did it.
I don't know if it will work for everybody but the, the true hacker in nature will kind
of enjoy it much more than just kind of getting kicks out of a desktop but that's just me.
So, what, what, you could really just do that for BSD too, so.
Oh, yeah, like.
It's just like drilling for Linux.
Yeah.
But you really did it more of a baptism by fire because if you're, uh, basically if you
do something bad to it, your, your cable connection is down.
So, it's, it's very, make sure it works first.
Exactly.
I mean, like, you know, if all comes to, you know, if all comes to work, you know, you
can always just plug in video and start tinkering it with there but you do have to have some
knowledge of it at some point.
So, you know, keep Firefox open with a million tabbed windows, uh, all point to, like, how-to
sites, uh, so, you know, that's, you know, the way it worked for me might not work for
everybody though.
Oh, also, live CDs, you know, want to play with Linux?
Give it a shot.
I always forget about those because those are really new to me.
And one more reason I'm jealous of people today.
Live CDs are fun.
Do they have a, do you know if there's a BSD live CD?
Uh, yeah, I think, I think Dragonfly also released a live CD to give it a shot with.
BSD has one as well, I'm almost positive.
Yeah, they, they probably do.
I, I will have to try that out.
So, okay, well, you, you basically said that Linux is kind of more fluid and easier to
get set up, but, so what are the advantages of BSD over Linux?
Why, why would I want to choose BSD rather than Linux?
Server, uh, uh.
As a server.
Yeah.
The, the security on the, the BSD platform, uh, in my opinion is much more solid, uh, you
know, especially when you take into consideration like OpenBSD.
Um, like, it's, it's very stable.
Like, also, like, you know, I was talking about, like, you know, the development process
where the kernel is kind of anal at times.
Mm-hmm.
You know, that plays into it as well.
Like, you know, there's not some random hack that just kind of writes some code and throws
it into the BSD kernel.
It's a very, I would almost say professional.
Like, you know, if BSD started asking for money, people would pay for it.
It's, it's very nice.
And, you know, the, some of the, like, you know, if you don't even get it for the security
reasons, like, um, they also have, like, cool tools like, uh, PF.
It's, PF is a very cool, well, a very nice, uh, firewall.
And you can do a lot with it.
It's very powerful.
And the language, uh, they use to write the config files is very fluid and almost English-like
and just makes your life a lot easier.
And it's, you know, they also have, uh, things like, uh, OpenBGPD, which is a routing protocol.
Uh, so, so if you needed to build a router just to do, like, very, uh, high-end routing,
so, like, let's say you wanted to interface with a Cisco router, you could use, uh, BGP to
communicate with it.
I think, uh, I think it also might do OSPF.
Not sure on that, though.
But, you know, stuff like that, uh, just makes it a very stable server platform.
And, um, uh, you know, things like, things that are just kind of nice, uh, with, uh, let's
say OpenBSD, uh, you know, comes with built-in, uh, stack protection, uh, called WX, I believe.
You know, Red Hat, I think, at this point has, uh, EFC Shield.
Yeah, they do, I think.
Um, I don't think it's been ported to Fedora, but they also do, like, um, embedded, uh, you
know, crypto, and, and just all this other stuff that just Linux distributions haven't
really done, because, you know, it, you know, it does take some of the usability away, but,
you know, it's very nice if you need to keep yourself from getting owned.
I mean, you're pretty long inevitable, yes, but, you know, are you going to make life much
harder for people?
Uh, of course.
I mean, here's...
How many Lux are you going to use, one or 15?
What was that?
How many Lux do you want to use, one or 15, on your door?
Uh, 15.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, like, also, I remember seeing, uh, a NetCraft survey a while ago of, like, uh, attacks
under different platforms, and basically you see, like, the two, like, it was, like, over
a period of time, and basically you had Linux and Windows basically up top and, you know,
going up and down.
But then, at the way bottom, there was just, like, this whole line that, you know, went
up and down every once in a while, but kind of stayed stable, and it was BSD, and it's
just kind of one of those people have kind of learned to fear BSD, so, uh, you know, that
your chances of, uh, getting owned by some random dude on the Internet, uh, some worm or
bot are much less reduced.
And the, uh, uh, open, well, I say this for OpenBSD, I don't, I'm not sure about, uh, free
and that, but a lot of their services are TrueRooted.
Uh, uh, TrueRoot, um, all right, let me say, uh, TrueRoot is a way to basically separate
the application you're running, uh, from the rest of the system.
It creates its own, uh, file system under your own.
Um, so, if somebody was to, say, found an Oday in Apache and compromised your server, they
would only have access to the directory, uh, Apache was built under, under the TrueRoot
jail.
So, and, so, they have access to that, but they don't have access to the rest of your
system.
The rest of the system is completely cut off from that little jail.
Uh, from, from a lot of here, there are ways to break out of a jail, but it's hard.
And, and, you know, so if you get, you know, hit by a worm, not much chance that it'll do
real damage to your system.
So, if basically what a TrueRoot jail was, if, if a script kitty takes down your, uh, takes
down your Apache web server, they're not going to be able to, say, get into your home directory
or, uh, get, get, hopefully, unless they really know what they're doing, get further onto your
system.
Yeah, you know, they're not going to be able to touch your passwords.
They're not going to touch anything, really, just that one directory they got themselves
into.
And, you know, if you don't have anything on there, like a compiler, you know, a shell,
or anything like that, they're just, they're going to have nothing to work with.
So, they just get to sit there and twiddle their thumbs.
Things like that just make, uh, like, um, you know, you'll have troubles, uh, with a TrueRoot
jail because you'll want to do something, and then you realize, oh, wait, no, that's under
a TrueRoot jail, and I can't really have anything outside the jail to, you know, actually, you
know, to be able to access it outside the jail.
So, you have to really think about how you want your setup to be, and that's just kind of
one of the things, you know, you usually don't have to think about under Linux, uh, you
know, because a lot of people just don't build.
It is possible TrueRoot, most of your, uh, TrueRoot services on Linux.
I, I've done it.
Oh, yeah.
In the architecture of the flag tournament.
I mean, it's not completely impossible, but I, I would assume that with OpenBSD, since
it's all set up initially, you don't have to worry about a lot of the things that you
would have to worry about under Linux.
Exactly.
I mean, yeah, yeah, you can, uh, you can do it, uh, under Linux, of course, but, uh, OpenBSD
kind of does it for you.
It's already set up, and you just kind of have to, uh, think about how you're, how the,
how everything's going to be set up to really get it to work efficiently and properly.
Hmm.
So, okay, well, that, that, that's pretty cool.
Uh, are there, like, I mean, you were talking about the port system before.
Are there, are there lots of software under the ports thing, or is this just, like, you
know, 10 programs maintained by...
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, there's, there's a lot of stuff there.
Um, I, I think, like, the last time I looked, there was, like, 5,600 packages under ports.
I might be wrong, though, don't quote me on this, because, you know, there's going to
be some dude that's going to be, like, uh, that Stalin dude was talking out of his ass,
and so, um, yeah, there is a lot.
Like, it's cool, because it's all separated into different categories, like, if you need
audio tools, that's there.
If you need security tools, also there.
That's why I wanted to use OpenBSD, because I know, like, oh, if I need some tools for,
you know, whatever reason, I can just go under ports, and they probably have it.
You know, they have all the cool stuff, like, you know, Nessus, and, uh, you know, all, just
a shitload of stuff there.
Uh, and, you know, if you need something, there's a good chance that it's under ports.
Um, yeah, like, audio tools, uh, GUI tools, uh, you know, you name it, it's probably there.
Well, okay.
Well, I mean, this sounds pretty cool.
Uh, do you have any good websites?
Um, I mean, not the, not the near standard, you know, OpenBSD.org, their, uh, their documentation
is usually pretty solid, um, pre-BSD as well, um, let me see.
Uh, oh, there's also, like, a BSD forum page, but I can't remember it right now.
I mean, as usual, you can always try out the IRC channels, but, you know, I mean, standard,
you know, usually the sites that run the distributions are pretty well-maintained.
Their documentation is usually pretty good, so, you know, if you had this problem, probably
a hundred thousand people have already had this problem, and, you know, the guys have
probably written something about it.
And it still hasn't been fixed?
That's, that's not a good sign of a hundred thousand people that it hasn't been fixed yet?
Well, they have 12.
Uh, uh, uh, uh, I just missed the whole of BSD.
BlackRatchet at BlackRatchet.org.
Okay, I also recommend, um, Google Groups to people, because that's what I used years and
years ago, before Google even had anything to do with it, before Google even existed,
was the, uh, the News Groups.
That's your best bet, and I think it still is, but check out the websites, too, because
there's still a lot of documentation on different forums and whatnot.
What was Google Groups before it was Google Groups?
It was like, wasn't it Deja News or something?
Yes.
Yes, okay, that was it.
Yeah, Deja had it for a long time.
Deja News.
Wow, I'm really dating myself there.
Huh.
Okay, well, hopefully we convinced more than a couple people to run DSD tonight.
Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's definitely a fun platform to basically learn.
Uh, you'll get, you'll get annoyed at some of the differences, uh, between some of the
commands from, uh, if you've, if you've used, uh, Linux before.
Who fell off?
Like, uh, like, uh, huh?
What?
Someone just fell off?
Yeah.
I bet it was, I bet it was Scott.
12721.
Yeah, so, uh, you know.
Just start from the top.
Wait, what was I talking about?
How, how, how BSD is cool.
Who is this?
Huh?
How BSD is cool.
How is BSD cool?
Oh, um.
Hopefully, there's how it started.
Hopefully we convinced some people to run BSD tonight.
Yeah, uh, it's, you know, definitely, uh, worthwhile checking.
What?
Wow.
Jesus.
It's, it's Scott.
Or, correct, whatever you want to call him.
Huh.
Well, yeah.
Um.
Well, wait, hold on.
Just wait until we.
Joint's back?
Yeah.
All right.
Are you talking about his mobile phone or something?
Yes, he is.
He only has a.
I have a mobile phone.
It's been cutting out all night for some reason.
It never does it.
Yeah, you need to get, yeah, exactly.
You need to get VoIP running.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, three, two, one.
Well, uh, so hopefully we convinced some people to run BSD tonight.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, you know, it's definitely cool, uh, worthwhile to check out.
You'll, you'll, you'll get to learn some of the annoyances from the different, uh, operating
systems like, uh, BSD to Linux.
If you've, if you've used Linux before and you use BSD, you'll get to notice, uh, you
know, some of the annoyances like, uh, route, route's definitely different, you know, and
there's just a ton of different things that are just, that are, that are exactly the
same, but there's just like this one little tweak they did.
And, and, and, it will drive you up the wall just being like, why doesn't that work?
But, you know.
Well, it's just more of, like, the, uh, uh, the syntax has changed for everything.
It's, I mean, if you, if you went from pre-BSD to Linux, you'd, you'd probably run into the
same wall.
Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.
But, you know, you'll, you'll still be able to navigate your way through it and, you know,
you'll, you'll learn some new stuff and, you know, hopefully you'll, you know, start
using a BSD server instead of, uh, you know, your standard Linux, uh, Linux box for server.
Uh, uh, that's just my take on it.
Well, I'm, I'm, I may start using BSD.
You never know.
I'll have to, I'll have to take one of my spare boxes I have sitting around in my room
and fire it up and see what happens.
Okay, so, all right, announcements.
Let's see.
Strom, do you have any announcements?
Well, let's see, um, I guess I'll re-announce the possible binrev 7661.
Uh, K-L-E-S-S, that's K-A-H-L-E-S-S, plus meeting at gmail.com.
If you're in the Inland Empire or the High Desert and you're interested in a binrev meeting,
mail him.
Oh, wait, wait a second, did you just say 7661?
Yeah.
Oh.
No shit.
I'm, I fucking, I come from the fucking 7661.
7661 is my fucking homeland.
Where specifically do you come from?
Uh, Palm Desert.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Uh, I know.
This is Victorville, Apple Valley, um, Hesperia area.
Victorville, Hesperia area.
And just to re-announce, I'm not sure if you're enunciating it correct.
You're saying it, but just to make sure people understand, that's K-A-H-L-E-S-S,
the plus symbol, M-E-E-T-I-N-G, at gmail.com.
Because it's, apparently, I think that's, I think that's a way of sorting stuff on Gmail.
Is it?
I know that, I know that's a way of sorting stuff on certain mail systems.
I assume that Gmail might support it.
I, I don't know.
Or maybe there's, or maybe there's just some way of having, you know, K-Less Plus Meeting.
Uh-huh.
Maybe there's a separate account.
He's just cool like that.
He could just do BR760 at gmail.com.
I don't know.
Either way.
Koresh, do you have any announcements?
Announcements?
MIT flea on Sunday.
Everybody get down there if you're from Boston area.
It's the last one of the year.
It's going to be some good times.
We, we will be there, and we will be in Hawaiian shirts.
Oh, God damn.
Oh, why?
Why do I live in Massachusetts?
Why?
Oh, screw you.
I'm going to be in a Hawaiian shirt.
Screw you all if you don't want to be there.
Oh, October 21st, there's a BINREV meeting, Framingham, Massachusetts.
Details are on the site and the forums under the meetings category.
And I'm going to have a little more information next week regarding the local,
for the 617-978-781ers, about the Bukake meeting.
That's all for me.
Yes, yes.
We started a new group in Boston.
It's the Boston users of cool computers and crazy electronics, otherwise known as Bukake.
Oh, God.
There's my announcements.
Do we have the website up yet?
No, it's not.
Oh, it's not up yet.
Okay, we'll save the website.
I'll make the announcement as soon as we have the website up.
All right.
Also, when's the next blue meeting?
Who cares?
The Boston Linux user group is having a meeting eventually.
Hold on, hold on.
Yeah, if anybody from Massachusetts actually cares, there's a website called BugC.
It's B-U-G-C.org, I believe.
And it lists all of the Boston area user groups and their meetings.
Oh.
Boston Linux user group, October 19th, will be having the meeting at 7 p.m., MIT Building
E-5-1, Room 3-1-5.
It's going to be Ubuntu Linux with Benjamin McOhill.
Oh, fuck that.
In the 3-1-5 area.
Will they be serving punch and pie?
I'm not sure if punch and pie will be served.
Oh, all right.
Boy, our announcement section just sort of delved into chaos.
Yeah, I think, actually, Karsh carried all my announcements.
One more.
You know, if you go to 2600, you know, from a different area code, come down to pound 2600
United on EFNAT, you can go to the website, right, it's www.boston2600.org slash united.
Might be down at the moment, but it should be up rather shortly.
You can email me at 2600united at gmail.com.
You know, say what's up.
You know, tell us what meeting you're from, what you're working on, and all that other
stuff.
You know, love to hear from you.
I hope we do.
Yes, if you're active in 2600, email 2600united at gmail.com, and just say who you are, where
you're from, and when you're meeting at, because we're just trying to do a nice comprehensive
list.
So, I guess that's it.
Do we have any other announcements?
No.
Cat sex.
Yes, okay.
We'll edit that out.
Shouts.
I don't know.
I'm going to send just regular shouts out to everyone.
You know who you are.
Shouts to the hack and slash, who sucks.
Hack and slash sucks.
Going to have a hack and slash sucks episode coming up soon, just for him.
I don't know why I said that, but it was something that we were discussing on the channel.
I don't know why.
I have to live up to it.
Yeah, we're going to have a hack and slash sucks episode.
We're going to have hack on the radio show and just say hack and slash sucks the entire
time.
That'll be episode 125.
There we go.
Strom, do you have any shouts?
Shouts to everyone whom I've promised shouts in the past.
Stalin?
Uh, shouts out to mostly, uh, uh, all the dudes in the, uh, the 617 area, you know, Boston
2600 and such.
Yeah, and that's, uh, uh, huh?
Okay.
All right.
Koresh?
Yeah, I'm, um, going for the same.
Shouts to the whole Boston family.
Sliced niggas especially.
And, uh, also shout out to my lady friend who was cool enough to not give me shit about
staying home and being on a goddamn radio show tonight.
Indeed, indeed.
A fine example of code switching if I've ever heard one.
Okay.
Um, site of the week.
We got this off the, the white supremacist, uh, uh, uh, radio show site.
It's, uh, privatewebhosting.org.
And it's a private web hosting organization for straight, white, non-Jews.
Oh, yeah.
I think, I think Strom's eliminated from that big time.
Oh, yes, yes.
Do you need to send in, like, a blood sample if you want to, if you want to register?
I don't know.
It's a good question.
Do you have, do you have to take a picture of, like, you know, your, you know, site of
the faith to see, uh, you know, how big the nose is and such, you know.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Do you have to see if you pass the test?
You have to also send in a video of yourself screwing a woman, so you're definitely sure
you're not gay.
Yes, exactly.
Oh, Jesus.
Yes, yes.
Just, just visit this website.
It's just, it's, it's, it's a fun, it's a, it's a hilarious look.
Um, email, as always, radio at binrev.com.
And, uh, what's, what's our voicemail?
The voicemail number is area code 213-415-1047.
Let me repeat that again.
Get your pencils out.
It's area code 213-415-1047.
I wonder if people would send us more voicemail if we had a toll-free number for it.
Perhaps we can, maybe we'll set that up.
Yeah.
Um, closing music tonight is the, is from that same website I sent out last week.
It's the Mega Man 3 Blue Nighting OC Remix, which I, I, I think is my second favorite song
on there compared to last week's.
So, as always, farewell and see you next week.
Same hack time, same hack channel.
Bye.
Thank you.