WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:09.460 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:09.760 --> 00:15.520 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:15.520 --> 00:16.600 and a fag pwned. 00:16.720 --> 00:21.640 In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold. 00:21.900 --> 00:26.440 I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable. 00:26.440 --> 00:32.460 On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero. 00:32.680 --> 00:38.360 In a flash, I'll screw you on burning Dreamcast. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle. 00:38.700 --> 00:43.520 Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug. 00:43.840 --> 00:47.540 I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z. 00:47.880 --> 00:52.100 Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely. 00:52.220 --> 00:56.280 You feel that rattling your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones. 00:56.620 --> 01:00.660 And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:01.080 --> 01:03.440 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:03.920 --> 01:06.760 This is dedicated to the hackers and the creepers. 01:07.120 --> 01:11.640 Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs. 01:11.880 --> 01:14.200 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack. 01:15.180 --> 01:18.680 Hello everybody and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode number 153. 01:18.760 --> 01:21.020 And we are on High Speed this week because we don't have enough time to talk about whatever 01:21.020 --> 01:24.540 many topics we've got. I have no idea why I went into that mode, but for some reason I'm 01:24.540 --> 01:28.840 talking very fast today. And I'm going to slow down now and tell everybody that this is 01:28.840 --> 01:31.400 episode 153 of Binary Revolution Radio. 01:31.400 --> 01:41.280 I am StankDawg and we are coming to you on June 20th, 2006, episode 153. 01:41.280 --> 01:50.100 Now let's see, 52 episodes in a season, 52 weeks in a year. So we did 52, 104, so 150, let's 01:50.100 --> 01:55.140 see, where are we going to do it? 158, is that right? No, wait a minute, my math's off. 01:55.400 --> 02:01.920 52, 104, 156 will be the last episode of season 3, is that right? 02:01.920 --> 02:04.760 Oh, yes. 02:04.980 --> 02:08.360 I need a calculator, I think. These numbers are getting too damn, who thought we'd ever 02:08.360 --> 02:16.040 make it past two episodes, let alone 156, two seasons, three seasons. So, we are nearing 02:16.040 --> 02:20.660 the end of season 3 and we have now made a pretty good transition, I think, into this 02:20.660 --> 02:25.000 new format of the show and seems to be pretty successful based on the feedback that I have 02:25.000 --> 02:29.540 heard. So we are going to continue again this week. And what does the future hold for Binary 02:29.540 --> 02:34.260 Revolution Radio? Well, I don't know. For that matter, is there any future for Binary 02:34.260 --> 02:39.600 Revolution Radio? Is this it? Do we go out on season 3 with a swan song? Do we continue 02:39.600 --> 02:44.840 doing it? What do we do with the show? I guess the only way to find out is to stick around 02:44.840 --> 02:51.640 for the next few episodes and see what happens. That being said, our co-host this week to start 02:51.640 --> 02:55.220 off the show is Wright Coast, joining us once again. Welcome, my friend. 02:56.160 --> 02:57.340 Hello, Interweb. 02:57.340 --> 03:04.720 Interweb live. Okay, not live, but pseudo live. All right, what are we going to talk 03:04.720 --> 03:09.140 about tonight? Actually, pretty much one, well, there's one quick topic, I think, towards 03:09.140 --> 03:15.000 the end, but our main topic today is going to be, I hesitate to call it a review because 03:15.000 --> 03:21.100 it's still such a new early release. So let's call it First Impressions of Windows Vista Beta 03:21.100 --> 03:26.380 2. I think that's a little bit safer to say because we haven't had a whole lot of time 03:26.380 --> 03:31.780 to dig into it in detail, but you and I have both done a little bit of tinkering and reading 03:31.780 --> 03:35.100 about the subject matter. So what do you say we'll jump into it? 03:37.100 --> 03:43.040 Well, I guess, let's see, where to begin? Wow, this is kind of tough. I didn't think 03:43.040 --> 03:50.140 about actually flow charting where to start with this. All right, well, okay, first of 03:50.140 --> 03:55.260 all, the install was pretty straightforward, nothing fancy, nothing confusing or new that 03:55.260 --> 04:01.640 I noticed there. No, it's actually easier than the XP install. You think so? I do, sure. 04:01.640 --> 04:07.520 Did you do a full install on a fresh machine, or did you upgrade, or what? I did a full install 04:07.520 --> 04:14.060 to a fresh machine. Now, I installed... But it wasn't Beta 2. It was actually Beta 1 that 04:14.060 --> 04:22.160 I did the full fresh install on. Aha, okay. I actually had an old XP box, and I just put 04:22.160 --> 04:28.820 in the... burned a DVD on another machine and put it in, and ran the setup from there, which 04:28.820 --> 04:33.140 of course does a reboot and a full install. So I was kind of curious whether it took any 04:33.140 --> 04:39.220 of the settings or not. That's actually more interesting, did it? Well, I can't tell. It 04:39.220 --> 04:43.300 was the same thing you described. I did not have... It didn't prompt me for a whole lot 04:43.300 --> 04:48.620 of things. It's pretty smooth, simple, straightforward. Oh, yeah, you know what? Let me preface this 04:48.620 --> 04:54.160 by saying the box that I ran this and tested this on was a... Let's see, this is an old 04:54.160 --> 05:01.580 Dell. Not that old. It's a P4... Gosh, 2.8 or 3 gigahertz, somewhere in that range. I think 05:01.580 --> 05:10.680 it's a hyper-threaded processor. It only has 512 RAM, 512 megs of memory. But this is 05:10.680 --> 05:15.740 to me a kind of prototypical or a standard box that you would find in anybody's home 05:15.740 --> 05:20.860 these days. People that are buying anything more high-end than that are hardcore gamers 05:20.860 --> 05:25.080 or hackers or somebody, you know, that knows what they're buying. But if anybody goes to 05:25.080 --> 05:30.600 a store, buys a computer off the shelf, your typical home user, I'm guessing, you know, 05:30.600 --> 05:34.700 in my opinion, probably has a box similar to the one that I just described. Maybe more 05:34.700 --> 05:39.340 memory, maybe with a gig of memory, but it has a... Actually, funny enough, it did not... 05:39.340 --> 05:43.200 I didn't even have a DVD-ROM drive or DVD burner or anything in it. It just had a CD-ROM 05:43.200 --> 05:49.140 burner. So I had to pull a DVD-ROM out of something else just to get the damn thing installed 05:49.140 --> 05:56.400 so it could recognize my DVD. So nothing fancy, nothing fantastic, but it's a, you know, 05:56.400 --> 06:02.440 decently powerful box. I do not have any sort of video accelerator or anything like that 06:02.440 --> 06:09.040 in it, which actually is going to be something to talk about later on. But it does have an 06:09.040 --> 06:16.780 onboard Intel video card, you know, standard, normal. Gets the job done as far as business 06:16.780 --> 06:21.100 day-to-day applications. It's not going to run any games, that's for sure. But there's 06:21.100 --> 06:23.060 nothing wrong with the video card. Everything looks fine. 06:23.060 --> 06:28.160 Yeah, mine installed okay. It was obviously more powerful than yours. I had a, uh... 06:28.160 --> 06:30.960 Oh, what was it again? Radeon 9600 in that one. 06:31.520 --> 06:38.040 Hmm. Well, I, again, this is just to play with it and test it out a little bit. 06:39.340 --> 06:43.340 By the way, I don't have sweet iced tea today. I'm actually eating a grape freezer pop. 06:44.000 --> 06:47.980 So if you hear me once in a while munching away on that, I'm, uh... 06:47.980 --> 06:49.300 Change is good. 06:49.300 --> 06:52.880 Yeah, that's exactly right. We've got to shake things up. A new format change. Now, 06:53.000 --> 06:58.180 now with Freezy Pops. Um, that's what we should do at Hope. We should take, like, a whole 06:58.180 --> 07:02.200 bunch of Freezy Pops and hand them out or something. Um... 07:02.200 --> 07:02.980 Hacker Pops. 07:03.200 --> 07:03.400 There you go. 07:03.400 --> 07:04.240 Image of ESR. 07:04.460 --> 07:05.000 There you go. 07:05.700 --> 07:08.920 Well, what, wait a minute, what would make the Hacker Pop any different than a regular 07:08.920 --> 07:10.000 old Freezy Pop? 07:10.000 --> 07:14.900 You could make it out of cornstarch and water and watch it change shape. 07:15.900 --> 07:16.980 Uh, okay. 07:18.600 --> 07:23.200 All right, well, that's, uh, yeah, you know what, I think we're gonna, yeah, don't expect 07:23.200 --> 07:25.740 any Freezy Pops at Hope. Don't get your hopes up. 07:25.740 --> 07:31.900 Um, so, yeah, anyway, that's, um, so the install process went pretty straightforward, pretty 07:31.900 --> 07:39.140 smooth. Um, let's see. Create, uh, an account when you first start up, an administrator account, 07:39.280 --> 07:43.720 and regretfully, that's the one thing I wish I had tried before we had to do the show this 07:43.720 --> 07:48.180 week was create a second account, another user account, because all I did was create 07:48.180 --> 07:51.980 the standard admin, and I've been doing everything, playing around under that admin account. 07:51.980 --> 07:54.900 Did you, by chance, create a user account? 07:57.440 --> 08:00.760 I used the default account that was in the install. 08:00.960 --> 08:01.860 Yeah, yeah. 08:01.960 --> 08:03.100 I didn't create a plain user. 08:03.460 --> 08:06.940 Yeah, me either. So I wish I had done that to see if all these dialogues and stuff would 08:06.940 --> 08:13.960 have been the same for that. Um, and, let's see, other than that, it's pretty much came 08:13.960 --> 08:21.180 up with no problems, and when it first installs and you see it for the first time, um, looks 08:21.180 --> 08:26.380 very much like Windows XP. It has a start menu at the bottom. It's not blue by default, 08:26.460 --> 08:31.240 big whoop-dee-doo, but you see the start menu down there, you still have your taskbar, you 08:31.240 --> 08:36.380 still have your quick launch bar, you still have your standard, um, um, I don't know what 08:36.380 --> 08:39.960 you call them, taskbars down there at the bottom for each application that you have open. 08:40.660 --> 08:41.580 Yeah, that works. 08:41.720 --> 08:44.960 I don't know what the proper term for that is. I just realized that. I have no idea. 08:44.960 --> 08:49.660 And they work a little bit differently this time. When you click on it, instead of kind 08:49.660 --> 08:56.000 of cascading them up, it'll actually show you a little, uh, specific one of what's inside 08:56.000 --> 08:59.220 of that tab. You have multiple windows and stuff open. It's kind of hard to describe. 08:59.220 --> 09:00.480 Yeah, very OSX-like. 09:00.780 --> 09:04.260 Yeah, well, and, you know, it's funny you mention that. A lot of this stuff seems to be borrowed 09:04.260 --> 09:09.520 from OSX. And following along that line, like, one of the things is that it comes with a few 09:09.520 --> 09:15.280 new applications by default. The install, I noticed, has, uh, I think it's just called 09:15.280 --> 09:21.600 Windows Mail, or Microsoft Mail, I don't remember, but it has a mail client that's built in with 09:21.600 --> 09:26.560 it. It's pretty much, uh, uh, what is their, Outlook Express or whatever they call that. 09:26.740 --> 09:27.960 It's a, it's a branch of that. 09:28.440 --> 09:29.080 Yeah, exactly. 09:29.200 --> 09:33.320 But it does come with a mail client, which is kind of cool. And, um, same thing with the 09:33.320 --> 09:37.620 calendar. It comes with a little calendar app, which didn't, uh, didn't the OSX come with, 09:37.620 --> 09:39.660 what is it called, iCal or something like that? 09:40.360 --> 09:43.300 iCal, yeah. I'm not an expert on OSX, but yes, it does have iCal. 09:43.300 --> 09:47.880 Yeah, so they copied a few things from that, actually delivering you a few apps with it 09:47.880 --> 09:53.860 instead of just Minesweeper and Solitaire. Although, since I mentioned that, there are also a couple 09:53.860 --> 09:55.080 games that it comes with. 09:56.140 --> 09:57.840 Did it come with Tux? Tux Racer? 09:58.140 --> 10:00.160 Uh, no, I don't think that would, no. 10:00.160 --> 10:00.460 Oh, no, I didn't. 10:00.460 --> 10:05.600 No, I was surprised to not see that myself, but it didn't come with those stupid shareware 10:05.600 --> 10:11.240 apps like they did on the Plus Pack last year, but we won't go there. Um, came with a few 10:11.240 --> 10:17.220 little games, no big deal, um, and some new screen savers, um, which, some of which did 10:17.220 --> 10:21.680 not run because I don't have the graphics accelerator that I mentioned earlier, so whoopty freaking 10:21.680 --> 10:29.200 do. Um, and let's see, uh, this, it does have a start menu, like I said, but what did you 10:29.200 --> 10:33.580 think? I mean, it's, it still works kind of the same, but I didn't like the way, I like 10:33.580 --> 10:39.040 going to the all programs. I pretty much always do that because I use so many different programs. 10:39.140 --> 10:43.880 I go to the all programs and find what I want. Now it kind of, when you go to the all programs, 10:43.940 --> 10:48.780 it kind of slides over to this new, I don't even know how to describe it. Do you know what 10:48.780 --> 10:51.880 I'm talking about? This new way of showing you a list of your applications? 10:52.800 --> 10:57.700 Yeah, it was like all programs was like right at the bottom and it had a, you know, like 10:57.700 --> 11:04.040 obviously different icons set up. Yeah, you're right, it was different. Yeah, I, um. It wasn't 11:04.040 --> 11:09.200 like a, a tree menu to the right where, you know, the old Windows 2000 style. Yeah, it's 11:09.200 --> 11:14.660 almost like a mini Explorer type thing, but it's so tiny that it's, I don't like it at 11:14.660 --> 11:18.460 all. I left it. There's a term for it, I forget the OSX term for that, but it really 11:18.460 --> 11:22.880 reminds me of OSX. Oh, really? See, I did not know that. I don't have enough experience 11:22.880 --> 11:28.100 with the Mac world anyway either, so. Huh, that's interesting to know. Well, yeah, that's 11:28.100 --> 11:33.220 kind of annoying, but I decided to leave that. I, I, I, I'm forcing myself to leave 11:33.220 --> 11:37.300 everything with the defaults to make myself kind of learn how to use it and get used to 11:37.300 --> 11:41.140 it before I say I don't like it because, you know, human nature is to say you don't 11:41.140 --> 11:43.940 like anything that's different or that's changed, but I'm going to give it a chance 11:43.940 --> 11:49.360 and see how it goes. I was actually thinking of Windows Live. That reminded me of the OSX 11:49.360 --> 11:52.840 file browser, not Vista. Sorry about that. Oh, okay. Yeah. 11:52.840 --> 11:58.120 Windows Live, that's a, that's a, that's a subject for another show probably, Windows 11:58.120 --> 12:01.460 Live. I might, might have to do one on that as well. I've been playing around with that 12:01.460 --> 12:06.220 a lot. Um, well, I'll tell you what, what do you think about, well, did you, did I miss 12:06.220 --> 12:09.880 it? Did you have anything else to add as far as the general aesthetic values of it? I mean, 12:09.880 --> 12:13.720 is there anything, well, there's, there's a sidebar. What'd you think of the sidebar? 12:15.060 --> 12:18.800 It's, you know, it's a good idea. What can you say about it? I mean, it's not a bad idea 12:18.800 --> 12:22.360 at all. It's not new, but it's not a bad idea. Right, and it's optional. 12:22.840 --> 12:27.480 It's optional, but, um, isn't that, if I'm not mistaken, I think that's something else 12:27.480 --> 12:33.460 stolen from OSX. Well, let's not say stolen. Let's say maybe inspired by. Inspired by. 12:34.300 --> 12:41.120 Yes, there we go. Um, where, and they call them gadgets, I think, whereas in OSX world they 12:41.120 --> 12:42.120 call them. Yeah, Windows is calling them gadgets. 12:42.380 --> 12:44.300 What do they call them in OSX? I forget. 12:44.500 --> 12:49.820 Widgets. Widgets. Widgets and gadgets. Yeah, gee, big difference. Um, but you can download and 12:49.820 --> 12:54.800 put little applets or gadgets or whatever you want to call them, widgets, onto the taskbar. 12:54.880 --> 12:59.220 By default it comes with a clock, and, um, I think it browses through, like, wallpaper 12:59.220 --> 13:02.820 images or something. I think you can have a slideshow on it. Um, the only thing that... 13:02.820 --> 13:06.420 Right, and you can, uh, bring over, you know, shortcuts to, say, you know, your documents 13:06.420 --> 13:08.740 folder and things like that. Ah, didn't even know that. 13:08.740 --> 13:13.380 Websites even, it, it acts like an active desktop does. You know, actually, that's a 13:13.380 --> 13:17.560 good comparison. It does act very much like active desktop used to, which never, ever 13:17.560 --> 13:22.100 caught on the active desktop thing. No. That was a horrible failure because it was so 13:22.100 --> 13:25.140 resource intensive. It does kind of act like that. Although we use it at work on all the 13:25.140 --> 13:27.380 machines. Really? Mm-hmm. 13:27.380 --> 13:33.400 Wow. Well, um, the only thing that was kind of cool that I did like about it was the fact 13:33.400 --> 13:38.600 that you can add RSS feeds to it easily, so I don't have to open up a browser. I know 13:38.600 --> 13:42.620 that doesn't sound like a big chore, but if you're just sitting there working and you have 13:42.620 --> 13:46.280 your sidebar up, especially if you have multiple monitors, if you have a two monitor 13:46.280 --> 13:51.000 more system, you can leave that sidebar up all the time and just subscribe to your favorite 13:51.000 --> 13:54.800 RSS feeds, and you can sit there and work and glance over at the news headlines and stuff 13:54.800 --> 14:01.880 like that to come through. I don't know how it would react with RSS or with, um, podcast 14:01.880 --> 14:06.800 or feeds with attachments or anything like that. That might be interesting to try, but 14:06.800 --> 14:10.640 I think that's something that's really handy and would save a lot of time over the course 14:10.640 --> 14:14.660 of days and weeks of not having to open a browser to check out the latest news or 14:14.660 --> 14:23.960 headlines. Now, along the same lines, though, there's a lot of communication going on with 14:23.960 --> 14:30.720 the interweb from this version of Windows, I thought. Between the updates, between downloads, 14:30.840 --> 14:36.880 critical downloads, software updates, security updates, validation to validate and make sure 14:36.880 --> 14:40.240 it activates. Activation, I guess, is probably a better word, the software that you've gotten. 14:40.760 --> 14:46.780 The feedback, quality control, RSS feeds, if you add some of those in there. The individual 14:46.780 --> 14:51.740 applications, whether they communicate back to a server. With .NET, they made that a lot more 14:51.740 --> 14:56.160 invisible and more applications in the future are going to run over the internet or at least 14:56.160 --> 14:57.900 interact with databases over the internet. 14:58.620 --> 14:59.280 Yes, they are. 14:59.340 --> 15:06.240 So, there's going to be a lot of traffic going to and from your box. And that is the biggest 15:06.240 --> 15:11.480 probably difference, I would say, the most drastic change that I think most users are going 15:11.480 --> 15:15.800 to have to get used to. It's pretty invisible. There's not much getting used to, but that's 15:15.800 --> 15:19.580 going to be the biggest change as far as the way people think about it. You know, years 15:19.580 --> 15:25.340 ago, Microsoft said when Internet Explorer 1 came out was that they even, back then, 15:25.380 --> 15:28.560 they tried to integrate it with their local browser and integrate it with the operating 15:28.560 --> 15:33.260 system. They wanted to blur the lines between where your desktop ended and where the internet 15:33.260 --> 15:38.660 began. And I think this is another big step towards that. If you're pulling information 15:38.660 --> 15:43.420 and running a lot of apps that invisibly, behind the scenes, communicate with the interweb 15:43.420 --> 15:47.520 to get their data, I think this is going to be the one that finally starts doing that 15:47.520 --> 15:50.720 a lot. So, a lot of it... 15:50.720 --> 15:54.260 Steve's always been open about that being a goal of theirs, you know. They really wanted 15:54.260 --> 15:57.820 to try to, or they always have. It's been something they've been doing a long time now. 15:58.000 --> 16:02.800 Yeah. Well, and they give you a lot of chances to turn that stuff off. You know, it says, do 16:02.800 --> 16:08.120 you want to get automatic updates? And do you want to activate your product now? Well, you 16:08.120 --> 16:11.740 know what? If you don't activate it, it'll run for, what, 50 times or something, and then 16:11.740 --> 16:17.380 it will stop working. Or, you know, activate your copy of Windows or you won't get critical 16:17.380 --> 16:24.280 updates and stuff like that. So, some of it is optional, but not really optional. And you 16:24.280 --> 16:30.140 can turn a lot of the other stuff off, like the feedback and the, I don't know, obviously 16:30.140 --> 16:34.160 you don't have to start creating RSS feeds or things like that. You can block a lot of that 16:34.160 --> 16:40.640 stuff. Or, or you can block stuff at the firewall level. But, I'd be interested to see if somebody 16:40.640 --> 16:45.600 sniffed the traffic and see what kind of data is going back and forth that they don't allow 16:45.600 --> 16:47.120 you to turn off. You know what I'm saying? 16:47.800 --> 16:51.860 Yeah. For the Enterprise one, they're really trying to push, you know, feedback agents and 16:51.860 --> 16:57.820 things like that. It's really something that they really want people to do. They have this 16:57.820 --> 17:02.280 grand plan where their OS is going to be great because everybody's going to be really cool. 17:02.280 --> 17:05.300 And, you know, how everybody turns that off, including in an Enterprise setting. 17:05.560 --> 17:10.300 Right. Well, and, you know, this is a beta. So, of course, they want the feedback system 17:10.300 --> 17:12.140 on. But, yeah, I disabled it. 17:13.260 --> 17:13.580 Sure. 17:13.840 --> 17:17.060 You know, I don't want to send that stuff back to them. I mean, I'm sorry. I realize we're 17:17.060 --> 17:26.540 supposed to be beta testing it. But, no. Sorry. And, actually, you know what? Something 17:26.540 --> 17:30.680 else that I've noticed, and I need to spend a little bit more time playing with it, was I actually 17:30.680 --> 17:37.660 did have a kind of a pseudo crash on the system. So, you know, on previous versions, on XP and 17:37.660 --> 17:42.240 stuff of Windows, when your application crashes, it says, do you want to connect to Microsoft 17:42.240 --> 17:47.180 to find out more information? Do you want to send this data? Et cetera, et cetera. Well, 17:47.400 --> 17:55.400 I actually had a crash already. Again, a pseudo crash on Vista, where I opened up. I was purposely 17:55.400 --> 18:01.740 stressing it out. You know, I had probably 10, 12 apps open with only 512 of RAM. I had 18:01.740 --> 18:05.200 a bunch of stuff open, changing back and forth just to see how it would handle it and how 18:05.200 --> 18:12.660 slow it was. And, boy, was it slow when you really open it up like that. And I actually 18:12.660 --> 18:16.740 saw a message pop up. And this was, I'm not comfortable with this. It popped up with a 18:16.740 --> 18:23.900 message saying, Explorer has stopped responding. And you know what? It flashed up there for 18:23.900 --> 18:28.660 just a second. It was your standard dialog box. And it didn't give me any options. It 18:28.660 --> 18:34.040 just was a dialog box. And then it says, Attempting to Repair. And then it says, Restarting 18:34.040 --> 18:38.940 Explorer.exe. And it did it all on its own, without my interacting, without my telling it 18:38.940 --> 18:44.380 to do that, without my authorizing it to do that. So it's got kind of a self-healing aspect 18:44.380 --> 18:48.180 to the whole thing, which I found curious, I guess, is a good word. 18:49.760 --> 18:53.540 I guarantee there's a group policy. I had to turn that off. But that's probably something 18:53.540 --> 18:55.320 that most people would want. 18:55.600 --> 18:59.440 Well, I mean, actually, that's a good question for you. How would you feel? I mean, if you 18:59.440 --> 19:04.420 have to maintain a bunch of these, do you want it to automatically heal itself? Wouldn't 19:04.420 --> 19:09.660 that just, it's kind of like error handling when you're a programmer. You want to write a 19:09.660 --> 19:13.260 lot of good error handling in there so that you know what the problem was and therefore 19:13.260 --> 19:17.200 you can program around it. You don't want to just hide the errors and have it try to 19:17.200 --> 19:24.000 automatically adapt without you knowing what caused it in the first damn place. So it 19:24.000 --> 19:27.920 kind of makes me nervous when it doesn't give you the control. Anything that takes away 19:27.920 --> 19:29.820 control, you know, I don't like. 19:32.640 --> 19:38.840 So how would you feel maintaining that or having to, would you rather, do you like that aspect 19:38.840 --> 19:40.580 of it or would you rather? 19:40.580 --> 19:47.700 I guess it's hard to say yes to that because of the reasons you just said. But that being 19:47.700 --> 19:55.380 said, if it works well and it makes your life easier to administer the network, then probably 19:55.380 --> 20:00.580 yeah. As long as it works well. As long as, like you said, it's not hiding a critical error 20:00.580 --> 20:06.580 from being discovered in a way that, you know, really, you know, if it's trying to restart 20:06.580 --> 20:11.440 a network application over and over and, you know, and, you know, colliding somewhere, 20:11.540 --> 20:17.740 who knows? But that wouldn't be a good thing. But I bet most applications, if it were seamless, 20:17.880 --> 20:18.700 yeah, I'd say that's okay. 20:19.100 --> 20:22.680 Well, and like, you know, one of my worries was when it first happened, I'm like, what in 20:22.680 --> 20:26.620 the hell is it doing? I mean, anybody, well, maybe not. Some people who are listening have 20:26.620 --> 20:32.160 probably at some point in time had Explorer hang on them. And you go into a task manager 20:32.160 --> 20:37.600 and kill Explorer and restart it. And when you do that, you know, it kind of loses track 20:37.600 --> 20:41.760 of some of your applications that you had open. Some of your applications won't show up in 20:41.760 --> 20:46.520 the task bar and the, and the task manager or anything like that. So it kind of isn't 20:46.520 --> 20:51.720 very good. Well, I was kind of surprised when I saw this. I'm like, I saw the start menu 20:51.720 --> 20:56.680 disappear. All the Explorer, which of course is the shell, all of that stuff fade away. 20:56.800 --> 21:01.440 The desktop icons disappear for a second as it basically restarted just the Explorer. 21:02.020 --> 21:06.880 But it seemed to come back fully intact. So it seemed to be okay at first glance. 21:07.440 --> 21:09.420 Windows added control out backspace. 21:10.060 --> 21:16.160 Windows self-healing. I don't know. It could be good, but like you said, what if it's just 21:16.160 --> 21:21.360 go, didn't Windows have a problem recently where they're antivirus or was it, was it the, 21:21.360 --> 21:26.340 was it the new Windows antivirus or was it one of the other antivirus manufacturers 21:26.340 --> 21:29.820 that accidentally deleted something that it shouldn't have? 21:32.260 --> 21:34.360 I remember that vaguely. 21:34.480 --> 21:38.440 Yeah, darn it. I wish I remembered exactly what it was, but you know, that's the danger 21:38.440 --> 21:44.560 of letting something, giving something complete trust and control to completely do whatever 21:44.560 --> 21:48.880 it wants on your system. So I'm hoping there's overrides, not only for that, but for a lot 21:48.880 --> 21:50.620 of things in general in Vista. 21:54.860 --> 21:58.340 Well, there's one other thing. Well, is there anything else that you wanted to talk about 21:58.340 --> 22:01.360 as far as the interface or anything like that? I know you're more, I know you've got a lot 22:01.360 --> 22:04.480 more in-depth information, I guess we'll call it. 22:04.480 --> 22:11.460 Well, I guess the one thing that I really remember from using it when I did with the beta one 22:11.460 --> 22:19.140 that is probably still there, I'd imagine, was alt-tab was different. It had a, it brought 22:19.140 --> 22:23.040 up like a dock on the bottom of the screen where it showed you little, little miniature 22:23.040 --> 22:27.960 versions of the windows that you had open that you could scroll through by pressing alt-tab 22:27.960 --> 22:34.800 instead of just, you know, alt-tab changes your window to window to window like it does 22:34.800 --> 22:40.680 normally or on, you know, former OS's, Windows OS's. Right. It brought up more of a OS X 22:40.680 --> 22:47.380 type dock where it showed like a live preview of the window. Yeah. I don't think I had that 22:47.380 --> 22:50.600 in mind. I think you might have to have that graphics accelerator. That might be an arrow 22:50.600 --> 22:54.840 thing. Yeah. It does require arrow. I'm sure of that. Yeah. So I did not get that, but I 22:54.840 --> 22:58.820 do know what you're talking about. And down under the taskbar down there, I think it'll 22:58.820 --> 23:03.120 also give you a preview of your window. And again, I haven't, I'm going to look in to see 23:03.120 --> 23:06.820 what kind of settings there are under the hood to see if I can turn on and off a lot of these 23:06.820 --> 23:12.460 features. But I tell you what, there's one other thing I want to talk about before we 23:12.460 --> 23:17.880 turn it over to you to talk about some other things is this new hardware rating system that 23:17.880 --> 23:22.700 they have. Did that, did you, have you played with that at all where they give you a number 23:22.700 --> 23:26.100 between one and five to rank your hardware that you have in your machine? 23:26.580 --> 23:31.860 No, I talked to you about it, but I didn't. Yeah. Now see, this thing is just, I don't 23:31.860 --> 23:36.840 know. This to me, I really think this could have been, and this is still beta. Maybe they'll 23:36.840 --> 23:42.840 fix it. Yeah, right. By the time it releases. But basically what they do now is they give 23:42.840 --> 23:47.260 it a rating system one through five on the different hardware aspects of the machine that 23:47.260 --> 23:51.920 you're running this on. So it queries, it pulls your machine to see what you're using 23:51.920 --> 23:56.580 so it knows what kind of process you have, for example. And it ranks five different things 23:56.580 --> 24:00.740 that I saw at first. I don't know if that's default or if that's the only five that it 24:00.740 --> 24:06.360 checked. So the first thing that it checks is your processor. Now, as I mentioned earlier, 24:06.460 --> 24:13.940 I have a P4 2.8, 2.8 or 3 gigahertz, somewhere again in that range. And out of a score of one 24:13.940 --> 24:20.780 to five, it gave me, I believe, a 3.8 or a 3.9 score for that out of five. So I guess 24:20.780 --> 24:25.540 five being, I don't know, a high-end 64-bit dual processor. I don't know exactly what it 24:25.540 --> 24:31.880 takes to get a five. But a 3.8, 3.9 is a pretty decent score out of five. So stop right 24:31.880 --> 24:36.640 there. And if you think about that, that actually can be kind of a cool feature that you can go 24:36.640 --> 24:40.280 into the store. Now, I know a lot of people, most people listening to this show know how to 24:40.280 --> 24:45.400 read tech specs. You can go in and find, oh, it needs this processor's speed and this 24:45.400 --> 24:50.020 many megahertz and this much memory, et cetera, et cetera. But a lot of your everyday people, 24:50.800 --> 24:54.740 you know, your typical home user, doesn't know what a lot of that stuff means. And let's 24:54.740 --> 25:01.740 be honest, quite frankly, it has gotten more confusing now when it requires a 2.4 gigahertz 25:01.740 --> 25:06.080 or higher, but then you've got AMD measuring their stuff with different numbers. So it might 25:06.080 --> 25:12.220 not be a 2.4, even though it says 2,400. And there are still some questions. So potentially 25:12.220 --> 25:15.940 this could be really cool that you can go to the store and say, if you're running Windows 25:15.940 --> 25:20.460 Vista, you need this score or higher. It's kind of like when you go to the fair or the 25:20.460 --> 25:25.760 amusement park and it says you must be this tall to ride. That's basically what we got 25:25.760 --> 25:31.080 going on here. All right. So to me, that's kind of a good idea. I kind of like that. It 25:31.080 --> 25:37.460 eases things and it gives you kind of a centralized, uh, it's benchmarking is what it is. Okay. 25:37.600 --> 25:39.540 Well, like you said, unless it's a roving target. 25:39.780 --> 25:44.040 Well, and yes, and that's, that is the problem is, well, and actually let me go back. There's 25:44.040 --> 25:48.320 a couple other, um, there's not one just for processor obviously. There's also one for memory 25:48.320 --> 25:55.360 and the 512 RAM that I have in there, believe it or not, scored like a 3.6, 3.8, uh, on this 25:55.360 --> 25:58.880 five point scale, which is higher than I would have expected, but it scored pretty well 25:58.880 --> 26:04.720 on that, uh, on the disk drive. I think I have an 80 gig drive in this box and all it has is the 26:04.720 --> 26:12.000 fresh windows Vista install. Um, and actually office 2007 beta that I just installed fairly 26:12.000 --> 26:17.580 recently as well, but anyway, plenty of free space. So I think I also got a 3.7 score on that 26:17.580 --> 26:22.100 somewhere in that range. Uh, and then where it's take, then's where it takes a dive for me. 26:22.580 --> 26:26.160 It has two different scores, which first of all, I don't know why it would do this. There's a score 26:26.160 --> 26:32.960 for the video, video card, I think it's called. And again, I have that, that very simple onboard 26:32.960 --> 26:39.080 Intel video card. Um, I think it's got plenty of memory to it. It's not, you know, it's not a bad 26:39.080 --> 26:45.000 card per se. And I think it scored a 2.0, a two out of five. All right. That's fine. I didn't expect 26:45.000 --> 26:50.160 much. I know it's not a fancy card, but then there's a 32 megabytes of memory. I believe that 26:50.160 --> 26:56.960 is 64. I think it is 32. Um, but then it has another score for a grap, what they call a graphics 26:56.960 --> 27:02.220 card. Well, video card, graphics card, what's the fucking difference? You know, I mean, I know what 27:02.220 --> 27:05.420 they, what they're getting at. Obviously it's, they're looking for a gaming card is what they're 27:05.420 --> 27:09.900 looking for an accelerator card. Right. And a graphics accelerator. And I don't have one in 27:09.900 --> 27:16.280 this box. So I scored a one on that one. Um, and again, that's also probably why I can't use arrow 27:16.280 --> 27:25.600 and some of those other advanced flare, the graphics features and stuff on it. Um, so all that's well 27:25.600 --> 27:31.460 and good. All those can be really useful. It combines all of them into one overall score for 27:31.460 --> 27:37.200 your entire computer. Well, my overall score with those five numbers that I just gave you, my overall 27:37.200 --> 27:46.200 score was a 1.0. Now, how is it that my system had fours, almost four on most of the other things? 27:46.520 --> 27:52.260 The lowest score was a 1.0. No matter what the fucking weighting system is for this algorithm, 27:53.180 --> 27:59.720 it would have to be 100% to the graphics card, graphics accelerator score and 0% to all the other 27:59.720 --> 28:06.340 scores to come out with a one overall score. So that overall score to me seems completely useless. 28:06.340 --> 28:14.840 It's absolutely a waste. And the overall score, if it's not useful, why have it? It just seems to 28:14.840 --> 28:21.160 defeat the point. I can't go into a store, for example, and try to buy, let's say, uh, I don't know, 28:21.200 --> 28:26.840 accounting software, for example. I have the memory, the powerful, powerful enough CPU and all that 28:26.840 --> 28:32.880 to run it. But if it says that it requires a 2.0, theoretically, I'm not supposed to be able to run 28:32.880 --> 28:37.840 that. Just because I don't have a graphics accelerator, which is irrelevant. So I'm not 28:37.840 --> 28:43.940 sure how that's going to work in real world applications. Seems kind of dumb to me. Um, 28:43.940 --> 28:51.600 what's going to end up happening, I think, is we're going to end up seeing boxes and software and stuff 28:51.600 --> 28:58.500 that's going to focus specifically on the individual scores. You need a 3.8 or higher on your processor 28:58.500 --> 29:04.980 score. And you need a 4.0 or higher on your memory score. You know, or a game is going to say you 29:04.980 --> 29:11.060 need a 4.0 or higher on your graphics accelerator card, et cetera, et cetera. You know what I'm saying? 29:11.740 --> 29:12.060 Yep. 29:12.440 --> 29:18.320 And which again, kind of, sort of may be useful. It's going to, it makes it a little bit muddier 29:18.320 --> 29:23.560 than I think it should be. But you know, I can still see that happening. But then the announcement 29:23.560 --> 29:28.520 that Microsoft has already stated that this is going to be a moving measurement. 29:29.820 --> 29:34.620 Well, if it's going to move, what works today may not work tomorrow. I mean, if I've got a 3.8 29:34.620 --> 29:40.760 score right now, and then two years from now, processes are much faster, what used to be 29:40.760 --> 29:48.760 a 3.8 score is not a 3.8 anymore. It's going to be lower. So that software that I bought and was 29:48.760 --> 29:53.960 working on a 3.8, now my system's only a 2.8 measurement. Theoretically, it won't work 29:53.960 --> 29:58.120 anymore. You know what I mean? It doesn't make sense logically. Mathematically, that doesn't 29:58.120 --> 30:04.040 make sense. Unless they're going to simply keep the scores moving upwards. The 3.8 will 30:04.040 --> 30:10.460 stay consistent, but new processors will score in nine instead of capping it at five. That's 30:10.460 --> 30:13.360 possibly the case. But then you're also getting it further confused. 30:13.360 --> 30:19.600 Or as they add service packs and more processors come out, your processor, for instance, becomes 30:19.600 --> 30:20.900 a 2.7. 30:23.060 --> 30:26.240 Well, there are some problems with this scoring system. 30:27.260 --> 30:31.700 No, it is a problem, but I'm saying that would be another possibility. Not a good one, 30:31.800 --> 30:32.560 but that would be another possibility. 30:32.560 --> 30:37.560 Right. Well, yeah, that's, yeah, I don't, again, it's beta. Maybe they'll make some changes 30:37.560 --> 30:42.400 to that. But there's one more thing that I found on that screen that really, I think, is going 30:42.400 --> 30:47.340 to be the biggest news or the biggest problem with this. And that is a little something called 30:47.340 --> 30:55.060 Microsoft Marketplace. Now, this, to me, is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Basically, what 30:55.060 --> 31:00.000 they're trying to do here is, on that page where it has all of your rankings and your 31:00.000 --> 31:04.400 scores of your system, there's a, in this page, this is an application that's built into 31:04.400 --> 31:09.080 the OS. This is not like a third, this is not a third-party application. This is not something 31:09.080 --> 31:13.120 you can put plug-ins to or modify or change in any way, shape, or form. It's a Microsoft 31:13.120 --> 31:16.220 embedded application, part of the operating system. 31:17.380 --> 31:22.040 Well, it has a little link in there that looks like what you might, you would think that it 31:22.040 --> 31:26.140 links to the help file. It's got a little hyperlink in there. And when you click on that, 31:26.220 --> 31:32.840 basically what the link says is, click here to buy compatible software or hardware for your 31:32.840 --> 31:38.100 machine. And when you go there, basically what it does is it knows your scores, and it goes 31:38.100 --> 31:44.440 to Windows Marketplace, and looks up to see, oh, well, we know you've got this score, so 31:44.440 --> 31:49.100 here's software that will work on, will run on your machine. Categorized, just like anything 31:49.100 --> 31:54.180 else, or it knows that I only have a 1.0 on my graphics accelerator, so here, if you buy 31:54.180 --> 32:00.040 this card, it'll take you up to a 4.0 on your graphics acceleration score. Well, if you 32:00.040 --> 32:04.220 don't see the problem with this, I mean, does anybody remember when they embedded Internet 32:04.220 --> 32:09.780 Explorer into the operating system and didn't let anybody else install anything? And the 32:09.780 --> 32:14.640 lawsuits and the problems that came out of that? This is not something that you can't 32:14.640 --> 32:19.620 bundle this kind of thing. This is a problem. I do, but let's think, let's go play devil's 32:19.620 --> 32:25.160 advocate for a second and think about how long Apple used proprietary power supplies and even 32:25.160 --> 32:29.800 memory. Well... And they were allowed to, I believe. I don't think that was ever broken 32:29.800 --> 32:35.600 by law. But did they, buying it only from them is something that I've always hated about 32:35.600 --> 32:39.900 Apple. I've made no bones about that, and a lot of people, they are... And they sued clones 32:39.900 --> 32:44.680 and Apple clone sellers and things like that? Yeah. It's not, yeah, but these are not Microsoft, 32:44.920 --> 32:51.040 see, they're selling Apple-branded products for the Apple computer. This is Microsoft selling 32:51.040 --> 32:57.140 not only Microsoft software, but they're selling NVIDIA hardware, they're selling a no-name 32:57.140 --> 33:01.800 power supply, they're selling a, you know, third-party antivirus. 33:01.940 --> 33:03.500 Oh, that's a completely different point. You're right. 33:03.640 --> 33:09.140 Yeah. I mean, it's really potentially a problem, especially integrating it. It's not a problem 33:09.140 --> 33:14.220 if they... Well, I'll tell you one other thing. I think it's Windows Media Player 11, 12, I don't 33:14.220 --> 33:16.080 know what the hell that's up to. The one that comes... 33:16.080 --> 33:17.860 Buy Music Link, I saw that as well. 33:18.020 --> 33:22.840 The one that comes with this one. Well, they did that one a little bit differently. This one is 33:22.840 --> 33:26.680 not so bad. It's a cool idea that if you're listening to music, whether it's streaming, 33:26.680 --> 33:30.600 through a radio station, whatever, it tells you the artist and it gives you an option 33:30.600 --> 33:36.580 to click here to buy it. That can be really cool if it gives you a bunch of options, kind 33:36.580 --> 33:41.020 of like a price watch, but right on your desktop. If I can click on music I'm listening to and 33:41.020 --> 33:45.500 like and it says, and I right click and it says, oh, so Amazon has it for this price and 33:45.500 --> 33:50.020 CD Now has it for this price and so-and-so has it for this price, et cetera, et cetera, that's 33:50.020 --> 33:54.100 cool to me. That's a price marketing, price search engine built into it. That's a cool 33:54.100 --> 33:57.980 thing. And Windows Media Player allows those plug-ins to happen. 33:59.580 --> 34:06.560 This application, however, does not. It goes only to Windows Marketplace. So places like 34:06.560 --> 34:13.080 Newegg, places like, well, you know what, even Bricks and Mortars, even CompUSA, CompUSA, 34:13.540 --> 34:19.160 which I couldn't care less if they died anyway, but all these stores that sell these things, 34:19.160 --> 34:23.520 they're going to be very angry because somebody sitting at home can now click on a link that's 34:23.520 --> 34:27.340 embedded in the operating system. And I don't care what you say, that is an unfair advantage 34:27.340 --> 34:32.040 that takes you to the Windows Marketplace and buy it from Microsoft. Microsoft is now in 34:32.040 --> 34:40.580 the reselling computer peripherals business? Are you kidding me? I see a huge fallout from 34:40.580 --> 34:46.540 this coming up. I see a huge lawsuit coming. If they leave this in and don't make it so that 34:46.540 --> 34:52.440 other people can put there. If it had an option that says, you know, price compare it and see 34:52.440 --> 34:57.920 it from these top retailers where anybody could participate or something like that, that might 34:57.920 --> 34:59.860 be different. But I don't think that's going to happen. 35:01.220 --> 35:06.960 Well, smart business decision. If that is the case, this is just a free beta. I don't think 35:06.960 --> 35:11.060 they can get in trouble for doing it with a free beta yet. If there's an uproar, they can 35:11.060 --> 35:13.340 pull that, I believe. Yeah, I don't think... 35:13.340 --> 35:14.660 Probably have trouble free. 35:14.660 --> 35:18.200 Yeah, I don't think they can get any problems right now with the beta. But yeah, that's 35:18.200 --> 35:22.700 something they better... And I'm surprised I haven't seen more mention of that out on 35:22.700 --> 35:25.860 the interweb somewhere. I would think that, like, slash dotters would be all over that 35:25.860 --> 35:30.660 kind of stuff. But what do I know? Anyway... 35:30.660 --> 35:36.360 Yeah, I'm not a... I'm not a, you know, a monopoly law expert, so it may very well be within 35:36.360 --> 35:36.760 the law. 35:37.560 --> 35:38.360 Yeah, I doubt it. 35:38.360 --> 35:40.060 That's why we're not seeing anything. I doubt it. 35:40.140 --> 35:41.240 I doubt it very seriously. 35:41.360 --> 35:41.760 I don't know. 35:41.760 --> 35:45.460 Well, we'll see what kind of... Mark my words. Let's see what kind of fallback comes 35:45.460 --> 35:49.500 out of that one. Now, I've been bogarting most of the show here, talking about some of 35:49.500 --> 35:52.520 my findings. Now, what kind of stuff have you been playing with with the new Vista? 35:52.520 --> 36:00.600 Well, what I did is on the Beta 2 Machine Network, I, uh, today I spent a little time watching 36:00.600 --> 36:06.380 a webcast from Microsoft. And I spent a little time reading a document that they released, 36:06.380 --> 36:16.900 which is called the Microsoft Vista... Ooh, docu... I forget the name of it. It's a 60 megabyte 36:16.900 --> 36:24.380 file. It's big, and it's a DOC format file. Uh, they have a... a 12 megabyte one, which 36:24.380 --> 36:32.900 is in ASPX format. A lot smaller. But I didn't grab that one. I grabbed the doc file. It's, uh, 36:32.900 --> 36:37.640 actually a decent file. It actually explains Windows pretty well. The webcast was informative. 36:37.640 --> 36:43.560 Let's, uh, let's... the webcast I'll talk about first. That was a webcast on something called 36:43.560 --> 36:49.820 WIM, which is, uh, the Windows imaging format. It's basically like what Ghost does. Images, 36:49.980 --> 36:55.560 hard drives, for deployment. Wow, and that comes bundled with, um, with... This comes bundled 36:55.560 --> 37:02.800 with, I think it was only Windows Vista Enterprise, if I remember correctly. Oh, okay. But that is 37:02.800 --> 37:07.340 a cool app. Now, what... where does that leave a company like Ghost, though? Or like Semantic 37:07.340 --> 37:13.020 Ghost? Well, let me tell you, if I... if from what I understand about the webcast is going 37:13.020 --> 37:17.080 to be true, I mean, who knows? It could be well overblown and not as great as it's cracked 37:17.080 --> 37:21.420 out to be. I haven't used it yet. I don't think anybody has. I don't know. Probably someone 37:21.420 --> 37:27.980 has, but definitely not me. But from what I see, it makes Ghost pale in comparison. Wow. 37:27.980 --> 37:34.860 For quite a few reasons. You can edit your image without ever booting into it. In other 37:34.860 --> 37:40.500 words, patch the image while it's just an image. Wow, that's kind of cool. That's 37:40.500 --> 37:46.240 definitely cool. Um, you can patch the image without even, you know, booting into it, without 37:46.240 --> 37:50.500 uploading patches, things like that. You can download a patch and apply it without ever 37:50.500 --> 37:59.000 using it. Uh, things like that. Like, what... what I wonder about WIM is... another aspect 37:59.000 --> 38:07.160 of it is, like, let's say it's hardware agnostic. It's like hardware independent. You can use 38:07.160 --> 38:12.820 that image. Another reason why it's gonna maybe be bad for Norton Ghost, you know? You can 38:12.820 --> 38:17.780 take this image that you make and deploy it onto any machine. I can use the same image on 38:17.780 --> 38:26.020 my NS7S with a 9600 Radeon card that you used on your machine. Okay. In other words, like, 38:26.020 --> 38:30.680 if you do a... if you do an XP image, you have to have the exact same hardware to put it onto 38:30.680 --> 38:34.780 another machine. Right, right. This is... this is different. You don't need to do that. 38:34.780 --> 38:41.280 All right. What about the, uh, what about the key? I guess the key, if you're using the Enterprise 38:41.280 --> 38:45.100 Edition, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably similar to corporate where you're 38:45.100 --> 38:48.660 not using a key. Gotcha. You have to be corporate or copy. Gotcha. Okay. 38:50.660 --> 38:55.380 Yeah, that's kind of cool, too, that you can, you know, the way it is right now in a lot 38:55.380 --> 39:00.420 of labs is they have all their images, that's fine, but then as new service packs and updates 39:00.420 --> 39:05.560 come out, they have to then take an image, update it, and re-image it with those new updates 39:05.560 --> 39:11.000 on there, or stick with their old image, and then when they put it on a new box, update 39:11.000 --> 39:14.860 it. Exactly. After you image it onto a drive, start patching away. Yeah. So, I mean, 39:14.860 --> 39:18.020 either way, it defeats the point. You're not saving time, a whole lot of time anymore 39:18.020 --> 39:22.580 by doing that. Or you're constantly building images. Right, right. And, you know, Ghost 39:22.580 --> 39:26.100 will still have its place as far as maybe Linux, you know, other operating systems. I'm sure 39:26.100 --> 39:30.520 this thing will only work with Windows. It does only work with Windows. And I gotta tell 39:30.520 --> 39:34.860 you, they definitely didn't mention this in the webcast that I'm watching, but as I'm 39:34.860 --> 39:40.620 watching, you know, them talk about hardware independence and, uh, modifiable without booting 39:40.620 --> 39:45.780 into the first thing I thought was Windows corporate copyright infringement times 10. 39:45.780 --> 39:50.780 Hmm. One image gets out of the torrent. It works on any computer in the world. Right. 39:50.780 --> 39:55.420 I mean, and I could be wrong. They may have made it harder than that, but they made it sound 39:55.420 --> 39:59.780 so simple that it might literally be that simple. Wow. 39:59.780 --> 40:04.280 The copyright infringed Vista. Well, that'll be, that'll be interesting to watch and see how 40:04.280 --> 40:10.000 that plays out. I'm sure it calls back to home somehow. Like I said, I, it'll be interesting 40:10.000 --> 40:13.920 to, for somebody to do some captures. I had hoped to have someone on the show that might 40:13.920 --> 40:16.720 have already been doing some of that stuff, but, uh, wasn't able to get ahold of him. 40:16.800 --> 40:21.480 So hopefully somebody will do some, some capturing and see what's coming to and from those boxes. 40:22.560 --> 40:26.440 Um, it's kind of hard to do it. I'd like to see what's happening during the install. 40:27.320 --> 40:32.620 Um, I actually unhooked mine and had it standalone, no communication with the global interweb 40:32.620 --> 40:36.520 while I was doing my install, uh, cause I didn't want anything reported. I didn't know 40:36.520 --> 40:41.440 what it was doing. I didn't want to activate an only key that I had in case I wanted to 40:41.440 --> 40:46.560 put it on a different box later. So it'll be interesting to see what kind of information 40:46.560 --> 40:52.460 is coming in and out. Absolutely. Um, there's a lot more there. They were definitely free 40:52.460 --> 40:58.440 in their document that I downloaded reading about. There's tons of communication home for 40:58.440 --> 41:02.420 all kinds of things. You know, like I said, one of the big ones they're trying to push 41:02.420 --> 41:09.240 is, you know, user feedback type stuff. It's it's the documents riddled with it. You 41:09.240 --> 41:13.900 know, please use your user feedback, blah, blah, blah. Right. Yeah. They want someone 41:13.900 --> 41:19.980 else to do their work debugging work for them. Right. All right. So what else do you find 41:19.980 --> 41:27.280 out? Uh, I went to the CIO's desk and talked to him for a little while because he has it installed 41:27.280 --> 41:35.460 on his laptop and what, and what he was telling me and what he showed me was basically, I hear 41:35.460 --> 41:40.200 a little bit of controversy about it, but he showed me the BitLocker feature, which seems 41:40.200 --> 41:45.960 pretty cool. I got to say, you know, it's, it's full drive encryption. It, and what it 41:45.960 --> 41:51.360 does is it does something that windows didn't do for XP in 2000. It encrypts the whole volume 41:51.360 --> 41:58.720 and it encrypts the system files and hibernation files on a separate partition from the, you 41:58.720 --> 42:03.500 know, profiles and other things like that. Wow. The profiles, things like that. So system 42:03.500 --> 42:10.040 files have to be on a separate partition to use BitLocker. Hmm. Um, he said something about, 42:10.040 --> 42:18.360 uh, BitLocker needed to have a management, a management console to work well with BitLocker 42:18.360 --> 42:22.520 BitLocker for end users to have it seamless. In other words, so that they don't even know 42:22.520 --> 42:28.540 it's there. That, I forget exactly the word that he used for the management console, but 42:28.540 --> 42:31.560 there is a management console that you have to use in conjunction with it so that users 42:31.560 --> 42:36.240 will never even know it's there. It's a full volume encryption, uh, encrypts the system 42:36.240 --> 42:42.660 files separate from data. Very cool. See, that's something that keeps the two separate. That's 42:42.660 --> 42:46.520 something that I would make really good use of. I would use that a lot on my laptops, 42:46.520 --> 42:52.640 especially. Yeah. So you have to have the trusted platform module chip. Hmm. Interesting. 42:52.800 --> 42:56.860 Which is, you know, kind of controversial if you read some of the stuff on Slashdot or 42:56.860 --> 43:01.480 whatnot. Yeah. But that's required for BitLocker to run. Yeah. For, for, for a business machine 43:01.480 --> 43:07.080 though, I think I would be okay with it in that particular application. Absolutely. All right. 43:07.080 --> 43:10.120 Yeah. It makes encryption easy. Anything that makes encryption easy in business, you know, 43:10.120 --> 43:13.800 so that it doesn't have to be done on the sand is good. Right. Right. I may not feel, 43:13.800 --> 43:19.580 you know, privacy aspects of it aside, you know, it's a business machine anyway. The, 43:19.580 --> 43:24.240 the fact that I'd have a drive encrypted if I lost it in an airport or got it stolen or 43:24.240 --> 43:28.400 something like that, that data, the privacy aspect of losing a lot of the data that I have 43:28.400 --> 43:34.600 on there is more so than, than that chip. So. Right. Which is, you know, easy for us to 43:34.600 --> 43:39.440 do on our own right now. Right. But it's not, it's not absolutely easy for somebody who doesn't 43:39.440 --> 43:43.280 have a lot of technology to do on an XP machine. Right. Just full volume encryption is hard 43:43.280 --> 43:50.700 to do. All right. In XP anyway. Right. Seems to be a little easier in Vista from what they're 43:50.700 --> 43:56.280 saying. All right. That's a cool step in the right direction. It definitely is. Uh, there's 43:56.280 --> 44:01.640 other ones for, for end users, you know, uh, restart manager is something that's going to 44:01.640 --> 44:06.460 cut down on restarting of the machine, which is, you know, everybody's big complaint about 44:06.460 --> 44:12.100 XP. Every time I do an update, I need to restart. Well, I hear that, you know, this document 44:12.100 --> 44:17.460 says that Vista is going to cut down on the amount of restarts required. They lied. No. 44:18.240 --> 44:23.260 They lied. They lied. I already had one. I already had one the first time I updated it. It had 44:23.260 --> 44:30.740 to restart itself. Yeah. I mean, what else is new? I mean, I guess it's, it's all new code. 44:30.740 --> 44:34.720 They should have rewritten it differently since it's not based on the old code, but 44:34.720 --> 44:38.720 evidently if it requires restarts at all, except for, you know, what would be the kernel 44:38.720 --> 44:44.960 update is kind of stupid, but. Yeah. I think it had one, you know, one major update when 44:44.960 --> 44:48.500 it, you know, it's just installed. Then again, it may have been a major update. It may have 44:48.500 --> 44:51.340 been an update to the kernel, so. Yeah. I guess it could have. It's only been out for what, 44:51.340 --> 44:58.520 a couple of weeks, a month maybe. Right. So there's already had a security flaw that critical 44:58.520 --> 45:04.760 that they had to patch the kernel. In a beta install. Sounds about right, though. 45:07.760 --> 45:13.160 All right. So what else you got? Let's see, uh, other cool stuff. Protogram, compatibility 45:13.160 --> 45:20.100 assistant. Uh, that is different than what's in XP. The, uh, XP compatibility is backwards 45:20.100 --> 45:23.560 compatible with a lot of different stuff. Right. This is different because it's all new 45:23.560 --> 45:29.620 code. It couldn't be just automatically backwards compatible. But even better than that, it's, 45:29.620 --> 45:34.920 it's backwards compatible with 9X, it's backwards compatible with XP, and it's backwards compatible 45:34.920 --> 45:42.420 with 2000, all without user intervention. There is a thing called program compatibility assistant 45:42.420 --> 45:47.720 in the control panel, which you can use to use, it basically is a wizard where you can make 45:47.720 --> 45:54.500 a program that's, say, Windows 98. It runs on 98, McAfee for 98. Right. You can take that 45:54.500 --> 46:00.280 and use the program compatibility assistant wizard to make that compatible with Vista. Hmm. 46:00.280 --> 46:06.140 In our workings of how that's doing that, I don't know yet. But it's supposed to be any, 46:06.240 --> 46:11.860 any average Joe can do this. And I don't know that I trust a virus scanning engine from seven 46:11.860 --> 46:16.680 years ago, eight years ago. Well, no, that was a pretty stupid, uh, analogy. But there, you know, 46:16.680 --> 46:21.540 let's say you had your, uh, cabinet making program that only runs on 9X. There you go. Gotcha. 46:22.420 --> 46:26.880 Or if I wanted to pay, like, Commander Keen or something like that. Exactly. I could run 46:26.880 --> 46:33.300 it back under DOS mode and, which, yeah, that, that never did work quite right in, uh, in XP. 46:33.560 --> 46:38.020 So that'll be interesting to see how it runs in this, in Vista. Yeah, theoretically, they're 46:38.020 --> 46:41.880 going to be able to make this compatible without, you know, sacrificing all the, uh, security 46:41.880 --> 46:47.680 advances that they worked on Vista to do. So that's a good thing to be able to run 9X apps 46:47.680 --> 46:52.300 without having to run them under FAT32. Right. Yeah. And that's another disappointment, 46:52.300 --> 46:56.360 actually, since you mentioned FAT32 and the file systems in general, is that they did not 46:56.360 --> 47:02.680 get WinFS rolled out in time to be included in, in Vista. That's a big disappointment. 47:03.420 --> 47:07.620 Yep. Noticeable glare. They, uh, you know, they, they took a, they took a hit on the chin for 47:07.620 --> 47:10.320 that one all over the place. It was pretty much all over the internet. 47:10.320 --> 47:18.860 So it's more NTFS. It's all NTFS. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And actually, didn't, isn't there 47:18.860 --> 47:25.320 also, I, I tried to find some of this on just using it myself that it's a little bit more 47:25.320 --> 47:29.940 Unix-like in its controls. I know somebody in IRC was telling me that and I had heard 47:29.940 --> 47:33.240 and read that, but when I actually tried to sit down in the box myself and try to view 47:33.240 --> 47:37.660 it, like I looked at the properties, uh, in Explorer and it'll tell me in the bottom right-hand 47:37.660 --> 47:45.340 corner, um, public has our read, right, uh, uh, read-only privileges to the file. Well, 47:45.340 --> 47:49.300 the simple fact that it said public tells me that maybe it has changed a little bit, but 47:49.300 --> 47:55.460 I couldn't see all of them like I can see in, in, in, in Unix. I couldn't see all of the 47:55.460 --> 47:58.720 file controls for all the different groups. It only showed me. 47:58.720 --> 48:02.720 I'm pretty sure it's still using NTFS permissions. Now, I could be wrong, but. 48:02.920 --> 48:06.340 Well, that's what I'm saying. It seems like it would have to, but on the other hand, I 48:06.340 --> 48:12.220 couldn't tell why it was able to tell me this public and read, read-only format. So, unless 48:12.220 --> 48:16.800 it was just saying, you know, that the attribute plus R, if that's all it was trying to say. 48:17.520 --> 48:18.640 Right. But. 48:18.780 --> 48:21.500 And which is, which is probably what it was doing. It's probably just another different 48:21.500 --> 48:27.000 way of going to, you know, advanced permissions and, and, and, you know, it might just automatically 48:27.000 --> 48:31.540 show the advanced permissions instead of the, you know, just simple read-only permission. 48:31.660 --> 48:37.120 Well, if they're, if they, if it is going in that Unix-like direction, I mean, it's, it's 48:37.120 --> 48:41.020 kind of interesting. The theme that I've, I've heard now listening is they're stealing a 48:41.020 --> 48:48.840 lot of ideas from Mac OS X. They're stealing some ideas from Linux, Unix world, um, from open 48:48.840 --> 48:52.540 source apps. Not only did they miss out on their, uh, you know, WinFS implementation, 48:52.680 --> 48:55.500 they missed out on the scripting language implementation that was supposed to go in 48:55.500 --> 49:00.440 there. Really? I did not hear that one. Well, remember, they were supposed to do a big scripting 49:00.440 --> 49:04.260 language into Windows. Right. I did not hear that they had dropped it though. That's not. 49:04.260 --> 49:07.960 I don't think they dropped it, but it hasn't been included yet. I don't think it definitely 49:07.960 --> 49:11.580 wasn't included in beta one. Wow. Now I don't think that's in beta two either. 49:11.760 --> 49:15.780 All right. I'm going to have to go look for that one. Yeah. The scripting language that 49:15.780 --> 49:20.120 they wanted to include was not ready for beta one. I know that. You know, and I actually 49:20.120 --> 49:25.220 have a beta of the WinFS, the Windows file system. I actually have a separate disk with 49:25.220 --> 49:30.220 the WinFS on it. I might try to throw that on this box and then run Vista under it just 49:30.220 --> 49:35.820 to see if it works and if it acknowledges it and if there's any difference. That could be 49:35.820 --> 49:43.580 interesting. Speaking of how we were just going into, uh, Unix type stuff, they have a new 49:43.580 --> 49:47.420 Unix subsystem. What do you mean by subsystem? 49:47.420 --> 49:56.740 I mean, uh, if anybody remembers POSIX, which is their old, you know, POSIX subsystem, let's 49:56.740 --> 50:02.340 say, let me look here. I wrote down a quote from Microsoft on this. The Unix subsystem and 50:02.340 --> 50:07.080 its accompanying utilities provide customers with an environment that resembles any other 50:07.080 --> 50:16.840 Unix system. Those are big words. Yeah. Okay. Uh, I do know that the subsystem only runs 50:16.840 --> 50:25.920 on SCOs, uh, SVR5 and on VSD. Uh, supposedly it only supports those two environments. Hmm. 50:25.920 --> 50:30.980 Now, why would... Applications that would run natively under those environments, I should 50:30.980 --> 50:37.080 say. Now, see, what, why singled out those two? I don't know. I don't have a good answer 50:37.080 --> 50:42.120 for that. I, I, when I saw that, it jumped off the page at me and I almost laughed out 50:42.120 --> 50:46.880 loud. You know, I, I went, wow, you know, they're only supporting SCOs, Unix, and VSD. 50:47.060 --> 50:52.600 That's kind of odd. Does it have anything to do with the fact that maybe they're avoiding, 50:52.600 --> 50:58.160 like, the free distributions, like free BSD, OpenBSD, or whatever, Linux, stuff like that? 50:58.240 --> 51:02.160 They're only... They didn't elaborate enough on BSD to know. I mean, do they mean, you know, 51:02.260 --> 51:09.380 the BSD old, uh, 4.4? Right. Or do they mean free BSD, any BSD code? I, I don't know that. 51:09.520 --> 51:14.520 Hmm. I do know that obviously SCO Unix isn't free. Right, right. So... 51:14.520 --> 51:18.200 But they didn't mention, for example, Solaris, which also, well, actually, isn't the newest, 51:18.460 --> 51:21.480 didn't they release a version of Solaris that was free recently, 10, I thought? 51:21.480 --> 51:26.480 Yes. But still, you would think they might have support for other Solarises in there. 51:27.940 --> 51:30.320 You would think. Yeah, that's kind of weird. I mean, you would think they'd support Solaris 51:30.320 --> 51:36.480 and Linux if they wanted to offer true compatibility to, to, you know, enterprise users. They're both 51:36.480 --> 51:42.960 big. They're way bigger than SCO. Yeah, I mean, yeah, Solaris would be a huge thing. Well, 51:43.880 --> 51:47.420 all right, I'm not sure what they're thinking on that one, but, uh, okay, whatever, Microsoft. 51:47.640 --> 51:51.320 Good try. Neither do I, but supposedly their, their new subsystem 51:51.320 --> 51:57.240 is going to allow Unix-based tools that can recompile Unix-based applications to run natively 51:57.240 --> 52:02.280 on Windows. And it's going to offer all the command line tools for a Unix environment. 52:03.760 --> 52:04.760 That's what they're saying. 52:05.760 --> 52:11.320 I wonder if it has anything to do with the licensing of, that they're charging money for this operating 52:11.320 --> 52:16.760 system, and they can't include something that was under the GPL. I don't know, you know what we're 52:16.760 --> 52:20.640 thinking about. Well, the BSD license is different than the GPL, and I actually just thought 52:20.640 --> 52:26.760 Yachty say something not long ago, and I mean, he knows more about licenses than me, and he said 52:26.760 --> 52:32.720 something along the lines of where you can take BSD code, alter it slightly, and re-release it without 52:32.720 --> 52:38.680 releasing the source. Right. That's perfectly acceptable under the BSD code. Right, and that's why I'm 52:38.680 --> 52:43.860 wondering, that's the reason maybe the Linux and the other support is not there, because so much of 52:43.860 --> 52:48.300 that code is GPL, and therefore Microsoft might not be able to release it without releasing the 52:48.300 --> 52:51.660 source code to it, and maybe that's why the... It's got to be. That has to be the reason. 52:52.060 --> 52:56.820 But again, I'm just thinking out loud here, so we could be way off on that. So what else you got? 52:58.840 --> 53:04.860 Not much on deployment. Not much on basically the enterprise stuff. Just what I talked to my CIO 53:04.860 --> 53:12.720 about, you know, my other admin, my project manager. Basically, we talked a lot about WIM. It's 53:12.720 --> 53:18.480 supposed to be big. It's going to kind of... It's going to change the way networks are deployed 53:18.480 --> 53:23.280 in the enterprise. And what is this? WIM is the Windows imaging format I was talking about before. 53:23.280 --> 53:28.880 Oh, okay. Yeah, they mentioned earlier. It's going to definitely change it. I don't see any reason why 53:28.880 --> 53:34.740 my, you know, entity. I don't see any reason why anyone would be using Ghost in an environment 53:34.740 --> 53:39.600 if the things they're saying are true. It's just dumb to still use Ghost. And it's probably 53:39.600 --> 53:40.900 not going to be used anymore. 53:41.460 --> 53:46.600 Well, and I think there's going to be a lot of fallout when the time comes. Not only from 53:46.600 --> 53:52.920 that. Well, again, Ghost can be used with imaging any other thing besides Microsoft, whereas 53:52.920 --> 53:54.660 Microsoft's tool is going to be Microsoft only. 53:54.660 --> 53:56.720 I love Ghost. Don't get me wrong. 53:56.800 --> 54:00.360 Yeah, let's be honest. Most people are using it because they've got a Windows lab in their 54:00.360 --> 54:06.640 university or business or whatever the case may be. And they've got 100 Windows boxes that 54:06.640 --> 54:12.620 they're imaging. That's what the majority of people are using it for. So it's going to hurt 54:12.620 --> 54:17.920 not only... Okay, that's just one example. That's just one interesting thing. Okay, the fact 54:17.920 --> 54:23.120 that it comes with a mail and calendar client is interesting because there are, you know, lots 54:23.120 --> 54:28.920 of third-party mail applications like Eudora and Thunderbird is what I use, of course. And 54:28.920 --> 54:36.100 the stuff that it's bundling with the operating system. Not only that, but then you've got that 54:36.100 --> 54:40.700 Windows One care, which does not come... I didn't see that with the Vista, but it's something 54:40.700 --> 54:45.520 else that they're also rolling out right now where it comes with virus protection, spyware 54:45.520 --> 54:52.120 scanning, phishing toolbar stuff, which is built into IE7. A lot of third-party vendors, 54:52.240 --> 54:57.280 a lot of third-party companies that make third-party software for Windows are suddenly going to be 54:57.280 --> 55:02.060 out of business because Microsoft's bundling a lot of stuff in the operating system. Now, 55:02.320 --> 55:06.600 I don't know. That's not necessarily... I'm not even going to touch that, really, whether 55:06.600 --> 55:12.340 that's good or bad. I don't know. That's... You know, what are you going to do? Is it unfair 55:12.340 --> 55:16.720 of them to give those to its users who buy the operating system for free? Is there a 55:16.720 --> 55:23.860 problem with Microsoft giving me a mail client, a calendar software, and this stuff in my operating 55:23.860 --> 55:28.500 system? And do these other companies have a right to cry foul about that? I don't know. 55:28.740 --> 55:34.980 Well, what's funny about that is the business pragmatist in me says no. They don't have any 55:34.980 --> 55:35.920 right to cry about it. 55:36.020 --> 55:40.260 I mean, Mac, like you said earlier, Mac has gotten away. Mac has done that. They've had it 55:40.260 --> 55:43.840 with it for a long time. That's not... You know, I don't think there's anything wrong 55:43.840 --> 55:49.220 with bundling certain applications as long as you're not preventing other applications 55:49.220 --> 55:53.140 from entering the fray and competing fairly. And that goes back to... 55:53.140 --> 55:56.740 Right. Or making it hard to remove Windows components, you know, like Messenger and things 55:56.740 --> 55:57.220 like that. 55:57.420 --> 56:01.260 Right. Exactly. Exactly. So... All right, well... 56:01.260 --> 56:06.260 But Vista's going to definitely catch on. I mean, you know, enterprises are going to want 56:06.260 --> 56:12.500 to use Vista. They actually were very smart by making it, you know, HAL independent for 56:12.500 --> 56:16.700 people that don't know what that is. It's hardware extraction layer. You know, you can 56:16.700 --> 56:22.180 check out what one of yours is by going into the device manager and checking out which HAL 56:22.180 --> 56:26.900 you're using, which XP is using a HAL. If you have one of those, you're using a hardware 56:26.900 --> 56:32.780 extraction layer. Now, Vista isn't using that, which is why the Windows imaging format can work 56:32.780 --> 56:39.020 with any hardware because it's HAL independent. Gotcha. All right, well... 56:39.020 --> 56:44.020 And just for that very reason, it's obviously going to be used. Like, people that... Enterprises 56:44.020 --> 56:48.120 that would have never upgraded from XP because it works perfectly fine are going to save a lot 56:48.120 --> 56:53.400 of money on imaging and deploying. And, you know, when you want to add... Large enterprises 56:53.400 --> 56:59.180 want to add a whole new building, it will take a day instead of a long time. Switching to Vista 56:59.180 --> 57:04.360 saves them money now. Yeah, but I guess to wrap it all up, though, from our standpoint, 57:05.420 --> 57:11.380 I personally... Well, I've got it, so I'll upgrade a couple boxes to it just because I have it for 57:11.380 --> 57:15.980 free anyway. I have it paid for and covered legally. So I'll probably run a couple boxes 57:15.980 --> 57:20.540 like this. But if I were a home user and had to pay for it, there's just not nearly enough 57:20.540 --> 57:25.840 in Windows Vista, based on what I've seen in this beta, to justify me upgrading from Windows 57:25.840 --> 57:28.740 XP. I just really don't see it. No, there's definitely not. I don't think 57:28.740 --> 57:32.040 they're shooting for the home crowd yet. I think they're depending on the home crowd 57:32.040 --> 57:38.060 to start to catch on to Vista in 2008, end of 2008. People start to buy it just as people 57:38.060 --> 57:41.560 started to buy XP and droves in 2002, 2003. 57:42.300 --> 57:46.880 Well, and they're going to release multiple versions of Vista. There's a home version, 57:47.040 --> 57:52.000 there's a pro version, there's a media center version. I think there's even a gaming version. 57:52.160 --> 57:56.060 And then there's a... I don't know what they call it, but I think isn't there like a... 57:56.060 --> 58:00.300 It's called the Enterprise version. Like that Unix subsystem only comes on the Enterprise 58:00.300 --> 58:04.660 version. I think there's like a thin client. I know that for sure. The Unix subsystem, 58:04.780 --> 58:08.120 whatever that's going to be, is Enterprise only. Right, yeah. Enterprise, of course, is going 58:08.120 --> 58:12.160 to be their high end. But I think there's also one really low end that does not have all the 58:12.160 --> 58:17.020 bells and whistles and apps. It's just a very watered down... Let's call it thin client, 58:17.120 --> 58:20.660 for lack of a better word. A very thin client version. Right, the Windows Server 2003 Web Edition 58:20.660 --> 58:26.200 version. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Which only uses up to two gigs of memory. But anyway, 58:26.340 --> 58:31.460 we won't go there. All right. Well, I think that's pretty much going to wrap it up. We spent 58:31.460 --> 58:37.600 like an hour on this. So let's get another quick view on it and talk about one other topic from 58:37.600 --> 58:42.380 the forums and then probably do some emails. So, Bright Coast, thank you for being on the 58:42.380 --> 58:46.500 show. And we're going to head off and see what knot theory has to say about the whole thing. 58:46.500 --> 58:55.640 Thank you. See you soon. All right. So next up on tonight's Microsoft Vista Beta 2. Do we 58:55.640 --> 59:02.140 call it Windows Vista Beta 2? Is that the proper term? I have no idea. Well, anyway, for those of you 59:02.140 --> 59:07.720 who recognize the voice knot theory is on the line with us tonight. I'm in the heezy. All right. So 59:07.720 --> 59:11.900 we're going to actually, you're going to probably have the last word on this. So what did you think 59:11.900 --> 59:16.860 in your... Now, you used it kind of differently than everything else. You did it in a virtual 59:16.860 --> 59:22.940 session, right? Yeah. I'm special. Mom always said I'm special. So I do things in special ways. 59:22.940 --> 59:31.560 So I installed Vista into VMware. And, you know, other than the install running in 16 color 59:31.560 --> 59:35.940 mode, once you get it up and running and you install VMware tools, it runs just fine. It's 59:35.940 --> 59:42.180 not super fast because Vista is so dependent on your graphics accelerator to do everything 59:42.180 --> 59:47.320 because everything's got to be rounded and shiny and all kinds of stuff. So it's a little 59:47.320 --> 59:53.880 sluggish. But I have to say my absolute favorite thing about Windows Vista, and I'm sure you 59:53.880 --> 01:00:00.960 can tell I'm not being serious now, is Internet Explorer. And I'll tell you why. Okay? They 01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:05.240 came up with this new technology called tab browsing. I still don't understand it yet, 01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:09.580 but it's magic. It's a new technology. It's going to take time for you to catch on to that. 01:00:10.120 --> 01:00:14.180 Yeah. You know, you just, you can't get used to it right away. You know, it's a total shift 01:00:14.180 --> 01:00:19.020 in the way people use browsers. So anyway, seriously, the best thing about Internet Explorer 01:00:19.020 --> 01:00:22.760 and Vista is that on my computer, the only website I can go to is Google. 01:00:23.660 --> 01:00:27.440 Yeah. Now, see, I don't know what's up with that because I didn't have any problems like 01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:31.380 that. I saw you mention that in the forums, but I didn't have any problems. I had one funny 01:00:31.380 --> 01:00:36.380 problem. I installed Microsoft Office, which I was going to talk about a little bit maybe 01:00:36.380 --> 01:00:42.560 later. And when Office installs, the first thing, like when it's done installing, it says, 01:00:42.560 --> 01:00:47.080 do you want to go to the website to look for updates or something like that? And you 01:00:47.080 --> 01:00:51.160 say, okay, or you say no, finish installing or something like that. And when you go to 01:00:51.160 --> 01:00:55.280 that website, it tells you that you're not authorized to go to that website. You have 01:00:55.280 --> 01:01:00.040 to actually activate the damn thing. Other than that, though, I didn't have any problem 01:01:00.040 --> 01:01:01.480 going to any other site. 01:01:02.340 --> 01:01:07.740 Well, I only tried the two sites. I tried Google, of course, Google work, but not the first 01:01:07.740 --> 01:01:13.660 time, only the second time. Then I decided, okay, well, if other websites aren't coming 01:01:13.660 --> 01:01:18.260 up, let me go to Microsoft's webpage and see if their website at least comes up. The only 01:01:18.260 --> 01:01:22.100 thing that comes up on the Microsoft page for me is the top bar that says Microsoft. 01:01:22.720 --> 01:01:26.700 Not even all the navigation comes up. And then it pops up this little message that says that 01:01:26.700 --> 01:01:33.080 the phishing filter has been activated, which is pretty cool. And then when I try to go to 01:01:33.080 --> 01:01:37.360 slash dot, the only thing I can get on slash dot is the title bar. Like it says slash dot 01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:38.920 news for nerds, and then the screen is black. 01:01:40.340 --> 01:01:42.440 That's strange. Is it a rendering issue? 01:01:43.540 --> 01:01:48.300 No, I mean, it's not even downloading the whole webpage. It's got that little progress bar 01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:51.580 on the bottom, and every time you reload it, it gets a little bit further, but it never 01:01:51.580 --> 01:01:53.300 gets all the way, and it never renders anything. 01:01:54.200 --> 01:01:55.420 Wow, that's really weird. 01:01:56.040 --> 01:01:59.820 Yeah, it's pretty strange. I didn't really try to do anything else other than use Internet 01:01:59.820 --> 01:02:02.840 Explorer, and I didn't really want to bother to install any applications, but 01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:10.260 I don't know. It didn't really wow me. Like nothing made me think, like, people are going 01:02:10.260 --> 01:02:14.320 to need Vista because it has this feature. You know, I couldn't put my finger on anything 01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:18.460 that it's going to have. Like, you know, you can turn off the themes and all that other 01:02:18.460 --> 01:02:22.280 nonsense so it looks just like regular Windows, so it's not like they've really changed the 01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:26.160 user interface very much at all. You know, they haven't made it completely different, 01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:28.960 so I don't know what all the fuss is about. 01:02:29.860 --> 01:02:29.960 Wow. 01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:32.680 All I know is that it's really heavy at my graphics card. That's it. 01:02:32.680 --> 01:02:35.840 Well, I was getting ready to say that. You mentioned it. You kind of buzzed by it earlier, 01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:38.180 but let's back up. Actually, let's back up two steps. 01:02:38.640 --> 01:02:44.200 The install process itself. You briefly mentioned the install process. You said 16 colors. 01:02:45.220 --> 01:02:50.440 Did you install... Now, installing it on a virtual session like you did, does that... 01:02:50.440 --> 01:02:53.900 Basically, it's like installing it on a fresh, brand-new hard drive for the first time, 01:02:53.900 --> 01:02:55.340 right? Yeah, exactly. 01:02:55.560 --> 01:03:00.360 Okay, now, what I did is I actually upgraded, or I actually fired the installer, I should 01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:06.020 say, to set up from inside of a Windows XP box that they already had installed. So, of 01:03:06.020 --> 01:03:10.220 course, it restarted and rebooted from the CD and did the install, but it was pretty much 01:03:10.220 --> 01:03:15.640 a hands-off experience. It did not prompt me for a lot of things, and I thought that that 01:03:15.640 --> 01:03:19.280 was probably because it pulled a lot of the settings from the previous version of Windows 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:26.080 somehow. Ah, yeah. Did you have any... I was actually going to say that this is absolutely 01:03:26.080 --> 01:03:33.620 by far the most hands-off Windows install ever, and it was fast. Even on my little VMware session 01:03:33.620 --> 01:03:39.540 that I only had 512 megs of RAM allocated to, and, you know, it flew. You know, I think 01:03:39.540 --> 01:03:44.580 it only took, like, maybe 10 minutes to install. It was super fast. And it asked me, like, three 01:03:44.580 --> 01:03:48.800 things. It asked me what my name was, what the name of the computer should be, and what 01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:51.120 time zone I was in. I don't think it asked anything else at all. 01:03:52.340 --> 01:03:59.400 Hmm. Now, you were using the beta 2, the 1.3 gigabytes? Is that how big the file was? 01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:04.240 I thought it was, like, the 3 gigabytes. I think so, or something. 01:04:04.340 --> 01:04:05.360 Was it 3 point something? 01:04:06.060 --> 01:04:09.160 I thought it was 3 point something. 3 point 4, maybe, something like that. 01:04:09.200 --> 01:04:09.840 Yeah, now that I... 01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:11.380 I got it from Microsoft. I got it legit. 01:04:11.660 --> 01:04:15.020 Okay, so, yeah, so it's definitely the beta 2, the latest one that came out. 01:04:15.700 --> 01:04:15.960 Yeah. 01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:21.100 All right. Well, um... Oh, I know what the killer app is. I know what the... You said 01:04:21.100 --> 01:04:24.180 there was nothing on there. Dude, you didn't check out the new screensavers. 01:04:25.680 --> 01:04:28.220 Oh, wow. That's pretty cool. I don't... I don't necessarily did. 01:04:28.380 --> 01:04:33.020 Dude, they have new 3D screensavers that are, like, direct 3D enabled or something. I don't 01:04:33.020 --> 01:04:36.440 know what I'm talking about. They had some new screensavers on there. That was pretty 01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:37.740 much the highlight of it for me. 01:04:38.860 --> 01:04:41.640 Wow. Wait, did they bring back pipes from Windows 11? 01:04:41.640 --> 01:04:45.700 Um, pipes never went away. Pipes has always been around. 01:04:46.380 --> 01:04:49.120 Oh, really? Yeah, that shows you how much I use Windows. I thought it was gone. 01:04:49.520 --> 01:04:53.380 Oh, no. Pipes is the bomb. Especially if you sit there and watch it and wait for that 01:04:53.380 --> 01:04:56.540 little teacup to pop up in random mode. But anyway, that's a whole nother story. 01:04:57.600 --> 01:05:04.760 Um, anyway. I actually... And this other thing you mentioned that I wanted to agree with 01:05:04.760 --> 01:05:10.840 is the stupid graphics accelerator deal. I don't have an accelerator card of any kind 01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:16.460 in my machine. So I don't get any of those pretty glass, aero, whatever the hell the thing 01:05:16.460 --> 01:05:20.160 is called. I don't have any special effects. It pretty much looks and acts like regular 01:05:20.160 --> 01:05:25.500 Windows XP as far as the interface. I mean, it's a little bit different, but not too awful 01:05:25.500 --> 01:05:32.340 much. Right. Yeah, the aero glass thing is just... It's... You know, I really thought 01:05:32.340 --> 01:05:35.820 it was going to be somewhat of a different user interface, but it's like... It's rounded 01:05:35.820 --> 01:05:39.420 and it's shiny, and maybe there are a few things that are a little different, but it's 01:05:39.420 --> 01:05:45.760 the same old minimized, maximized, closed content. Um, and it just... It makes it so heavy 01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:50.240 that there's no reason that I want to use it. So it's flair is what you're saying. They 01:05:50.240 --> 01:05:54.480 have the requisite amount of flair. Yeah, they have like... I mean, they have like 01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:58.520 95 pieces of flair when they really only need 12. Yeah, but you don't want to have 01:05:58.520 --> 01:06:02.720 the minimum flair now, do you? Yeah, what do you think about somebody who has just the 01:06:02.720 --> 01:06:09.060 minimum of, you know, amount of flair to get by? I want you to want more flair. Doesn't 01:06:09.060 --> 01:06:14.740 Microsoft want to express itself? I think... Wasn't that the slogan at one time? Express 01:06:14.740 --> 01:06:19.100 yourself or something, Microsoft? Oh, I don't know. That's like a cheesy dot com, like 01:06:19.100 --> 01:06:23.380 everybody is like express yourself. Fucking pet food dot com. Express yourself. 01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:29.960 Oh, man. Oh, man. I made it through this whole thing without cursing except once, I 01:06:29.960 --> 01:06:34.300 think. Oh, well, we don't care about that anyway. Of course, the listeners might hear 01:06:34.300 --> 01:06:38.440 a little wind whistling by or something as you're recording this episode while driving 01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:42.360 through, uh, I don't know where you're driving through. I'm driving through 01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:45.940 Westchester County. Is that an undisclosed... Okay, you're going to drop docks? 01:06:47.160 --> 01:06:50.940 Yeah, it's my docks. I live in Westchester County. What's anybody going to do about it? 01:06:50.940 --> 01:06:58.420 Yeah, what up? What up, bitch? Oh, shit. Yeah, unfortunately, it's raining, so I can't 01:06:58.420 --> 01:07:02.660 really drive very fast like I want to in my new car. I was just waiting, not for the 01:07:02.660 --> 01:07:06.340 spontaneous cursing during the recording. I was waiting for you to curse at another 01:07:06.340 --> 01:07:11.480 driver who cuts you off or gets in the slog in front of you in the fast lane or something 01:07:11.480 --> 01:07:15.560 like that. Yeah, how about this mom who's doing 20 miles an hour in front of you right 01:07:15.560 --> 01:07:23.200 now? God. Oh, man. And driving one of these stupid, um, I don't even know what the term 01:07:23.200 --> 01:07:26.940 for it is. It's one of these trucks where it's got, like, the bed in the back, but you 01:07:26.940 --> 01:07:32.260 can, like, open it up. It's kind of like, uh, it's like the pickup truck equivalent of 01:07:32.260 --> 01:07:36.760 a convertible. Like, you can take this panel out of the back and... Yeah, is that like that 01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:41.280 Avalanche? It's really stupid. I don't know why anybody buys a truck like that. It's got 01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:44.920 to be the dumbest thing in the world, especially if you live where I live. Like, you're not 01:07:44.920 --> 01:07:50.780 hauling lumber or anything, morons. You're taking your kids to soccer. Maybe. Anyway. 01:07:51.460 --> 01:07:56.160 Well, is that like the Chevy Avalanche or something, I think, is that... See, you know why they 01:07:56.160 --> 01:08:00.620 drive that? That's the closest thing we have to a Transformer so far. The closer and closer 01:08:00.620 --> 01:08:04.460 we get to a Transformer, the more and more people will buy it. I'd buy a Transformer, wouldn't 01:08:04.460 --> 01:08:12.580 you? You know, I probably would. If it was like... I forget what show this was or what 01:08:12.580 --> 01:08:17.120 cartoon this was, but back in the day, there was a guy who had a motorcycle that turned into 01:08:17.120 --> 01:08:23.140 a hovercraft, and it was just the coolest thing ever. If they had that, bet your ass 01:08:23.140 --> 01:08:26.920 would buy it. Oh, shit, I'm all over it. I'm all over it. Yeah, but when would I not... 01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:30.820 I'm all over it like white on rice. When would I not hover, though, is the question. I mean, 01:08:30.820 --> 01:08:34.820 if it's a hovercraft and a bike, I'd be hovering all the time. Who doesn't... 01:08:34.820 --> 01:08:38.940 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I wouldn't be hovering all the time. I would 01:08:38.940 --> 01:08:42.200 get up next to people and race them around a little bit until they thought they were real 01:08:42.200 --> 01:08:44.640 hot stuff, and then I would hover, and it'd be game over. 01:08:46.480 --> 01:08:50.200 Well, what does this have to do with Windows Vista? Not a damn thing, but we're going to 01:08:50.200 --> 01:08:50.440 do that. 01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:57.020 Basically, my verdict on Windows Vista is that, honestly, until somebody shows me what's special 01:08:57.020 --> 01:08:59.640 about it, I'm not even going to bother to boot it anymore. 01:09:00.500 --> 01:09:05.160 Hmm. Well, he has spoken. Actually, this turned into like an episode of Default Radio there 01:09:05.160 --> 01:09:05.800 for a few minutes. 01:09:06.700 --> 01:09:10.560 All right, well, there's one more thing I want to talk about while I got you on the 01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:13.200 phone, because you boned me last week. We were going to do this last week. 01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:19.020 There's one other thread in the forums that I... You're the person to answer this question. 01:09:19.020 --> 01:09:24.840 There was a thread in the forums about... People were throwing around these ridiculous 01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:29.440 numbers, I thought, anyway, of how many phone numbers there are available in the United 01:09:29.440 --> 01:09:34.160 States. How many total official available phone numbers there were for distribution, 01:09:34.700 --> 01:09:39.060 or even potentially... I wasn't even sure. The question was kind of vague. But how many 01:09:39.060 --> 01:09:44.740 valid phone numbers are possible in the United States? So, I looked at the math, and I have 01:09:44.740 --> 01:09:49.060 said many times I'm not a big phone guy, but it didn't even look remotely close. So, you're 01:09:49.060 --> 01:09:52.960 the man. What do you think about this? How many possible phone numbers are there in 01:09:52.960 --> 01:09:54.900 valid phone numbers in the United States right now? 01:09:54.900 --> 01:10:00.760 Well, you know, this is like the third or fourth time this has come up, and a long time ago 01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:06.160 when it first did come up, I took the Bells Mind database, and I made a little script that 01:10:06.160 --> 01:10:12.100 would go and count the number of assignable exchanges that there were in the U.S., and then 01:10:12.100 --> 01:10:19.140 just multiply it by, you know, 10,000, so that you could find out how many numbers are available 01:10:19.140 --> 01:10:23.440 and how many, what percentage of the U.S. used up. And I think, I want to say that there's 01:10:23.440 --> 01:10:31.800 288,000 exchanges in NAMPA, but only 140,000 of them are assigned. 01:10:32.140 --> 01:10:35.520 Yeah, 136,027 according to you. 01:10:36.200 --> 01:10:36.800 There you go. 01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:37.200 Okay. 01:10:37.540 --> 01:10:43.260 So, that number times, unless I'm losing my mind, that number times 10,000 is how many 01:10:43.260 --> 01:10:47.660 numbers there are assignable. I mean, obviously, not counting test numbers and all that other 01:10:47.660 --> 01:10:52.700 stuff, but that's about as close as you're going to get. That's the number of numbers you 01:10:52.700 --> 01:10:54.180 can actually dial and have it do something. 01:10:54.180 --> 01:11:02.560 Okay. So, your program here does not calculate the fact that a certain block of numbers cannot 01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:06.320 be used or certain strings or sequences of numbers cannot be used? 01:11:07.480 --> 01:11:13.440 No, it does take that into account, except for, I mean, I guess you can't really count test 01:11:13.440 --> 01:11:17.180 numbers at all. Test numbers are just assigned by the phone company randomly. There's no, like, 01:11:17.240 --> 01:11:21.800 pattern to the bulk of them. You know, some phone company may use one way to assign them, 01:11:21.800 --> 01:11:25.940 some phone company may use another, but there's no standard, so there's no real way to tell 01:11:25.940 --> 01:11:29.940 that. But it does, I mean, it does exclude all the things that start, like, 2-1-1, 3-1-1, 01:11:30.020 --> 01:11:33.700 4-1-1, all that stuff is excluded, because it's just the exchanges that are assigned. 01:11:33.860 --> 01:11:41.120 So, technically, there are that times 10,000 assignable numbers. Whether they're, whoever 01:11:41.120 --> 01:11:47.440 they're used by, I mean, I can't really give you any stats on that, but those are the numbers 01:11:47.440 --> 01:11:52.580 that you can dial, and that shouldn't, shouldn't give you some weird error message about the 01:11:52.580 --> 01:11:53.820 exchange not being assigned. 01:11:54.100 --> 01:11:58.760 Okay, so it excludes the 4-1-1, 3-1-1, et cetera, et cetera. It also excludes the 8s? 01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:01.940 Yeah, it excludes 8s. 01:12:02.120 --> 01:12:08.780 Excluding 8s. So, so, iTinyURL this for anyone who wants to see it themselves. It is tinyurl, 01:12:08.780 --> 01:12:17.100 et, the number 2mr, which will take you straight to this little program that Not Theory wrote 01:12:17.100 --> 01:12:23.140 a long time ago. So, check that out. But the number is, wow, there's a lot of numbers. I 01:12:23.140 --> 01:12:33.680 don't know if I can count this high. I'm going to go with, let's see, 1, 2, 3, 1,360,750,000 numbers. 01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:35.660 That's a lot of numbers. 01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:36.720 That's a lot of numbers. 01:12:37.240 --> 01:12:40.180 I probably have half of them, considering how many DIDs I used to have. 01:12:40.180 --> 01:12:45.820 Well, apparently you don't have enough to get something up and running, but we won't go there. 01:12:45.820 --> 01:12:46.360 Yeah, that's true. 01:12:46.440 --> 01:12:47.420 We won't go there. 01:12:47.420 --> 01:12:51.400 I asked people in the forums, I said, if anybody has DID providers that they can recommend 01:12:51.400 --> 01:12:56.040 that are, you know, decent and let me use as many channels as I want incoming, let me know. 01:12:56.300 --> 01:13:02.500 Nobody let me know. I don't know. I have one company that I can go to that I think is okay, 01:13:02.500 --> 01:13:07.580 but other than that, I've had some pretty bad experiences, so recommend something, please. 01:13:07.800 --> 01:13:14.700 That's all I can say. Email me, fax me, call me, stop by at my house, let me know. 01:13:14.940 --> 01:13:19.200 At 127 West Oak, no? We don't want to drop that much docs? 01:13:20.180 --> 01:13:28.440 Yeah, 127 West Oak, White Plains of New York. I'm on the third floor, and it's the really short 01:13:28.440 --> 01:13:30.020 John Malkovich style floor. 01:13:30.020 --> 01:13:34.960 No, what's the, what's that place in Pueblo, Colorado? We should have given out that address. 01:13:36.520 --> 01:13:37.800 Pueblo, Colorado? I don't know. 01:13:37.980 --> 01:13:41.100 Oh, you know, the one on other commercials all the time. Damn it, am I on my own here, 01:13:41.160 --> 01:13:47.000 people? Somebody help me out. The fulfillment center in Pueblo where you get the catalogs 01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:48.200 or some shit like that. I don't know. 01:13:48.260 --> 01:13:49.840 Oh, yeah, where you get all the toys and stuff? 01:13:50.120 --> 01:13:54.600 Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. It's like Slave Labor Colorado or something like 01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:58.140 that. Child Labor Avenue or something. I don't know, whatever. 01:13:58.140 --> 01:14:02.240 All right, well, you have to run, is that right? 01:14:03.280 --> 01:14:05.860 Yeah, I'm where I need to be, so I'm going to get out of here. 01:14:06.180 --> 01:14:12.240 All right, well, everybody check that out again. It's tinyurl.com slash et2mr. And yes, 01:14:12.560 --> 01:14:17.380 contact him, us at the radio show, contact you directly. What email address do you want 01:14:17.380 --> 01:14:17.680 to drop? 01:14:17.680 --> 01:14:21.580 I think, in theory, it still works. 01:14:21.940 --> 01:14:26.560 I don't even know. Let's go with that. If that doesn't work, send it to radioatbinrev.com 01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:31.000 or copy us or whatever, and we'll make sure it gets into the right pans. And hopefully, 01:14:31.180 --> 01:14:33.560 Freak Factor can be revived at some point in time, right? 01:14:35.660 --> 01:14:36.600 We'll talk about it. 01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:38.580 You'd love it when I put you on the spot. 01:14:39.420 --> 01:14:43.360 Yeah, no, I have every intention of doing it. I just, I can't, I can never guarantee any dates 01:14:43.360 --> 01:14:44.180 because they never happen. 01:14:44.460 --> 01:14:48.520 There you go. Busy, busy man, but thank you for spending part of the day with us. And 01:14:48.520 --> 01:14:50.960 we are going to do some email now. 01:14:50.960 --> 01:15:17.640 And joining us to do our email portion of the show this week is a first timer on Binary 01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:22.820 Revolution Radio, but someone we know very, very well. Logos X joins us on the show. Welcome, 01:15:22.940 --> 01:15:23.260 my friend. 01:15:24.220 --> 01:15:25.020 Hey, what's up? 01:15:25.280 --> 01:15:27.080 So, can you help me out with a little email here? 01:15:27.940 --> 01:15:29.040 No, not a problem, man. 01:15:29.080 --> 01:15:33.500 Okay. First thing I need you to do is sing the email theme song. No, I'm just kidding. Okay, 01:15:33.580 --> 01:15:39.200 first email this week goes to, or excuse me, comes from, goes to us, of course. Comes 01:15:39.200 --> 01:15:43.940 from Too Geeky. Too Geeky says, Stank, I wanted to tell you I love the show and give you 01:15:43.940 --> 01:15:49.420 an extra resource to share with the other listeners. On episode 150, Freak Toolkits, it 01:15:49.420 --> 01:15:55.900 was good to hear two of my favorite hosts on the same episode, Stank and the Doctor, with 01:15:55.900 --> 01:16:01.700 the bonus of hearing Ponyboy, who is absolutely crazy. Smoke bombs, I have to see that. Yeah, 01:16:01.700 --> 01:16:06.460 I got to see that myself. I like the format. I think that it allows you to get a broader 01:16:06.460 --> 01:16:12.600 spectrum of content. I also like that the show is no longer live. I think it allows the 01:16:12.600 --> 01:16:15.780 guest host to be more natural and not worry about whether they should say something or 01:16:15.780 --> 01:16:21.000 not, and it allows you to have more freedom when scheduling guest hosts. Not to mention 01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:26.920 you can also scrub up any advertent doc drops. I have been going back through episodes of 01:16:26.920 --> 01:16:32.240 RFA and Default, and I have a question about general phone freaking. Oh, man. See, I don't 01:16:32.240 --> 01:16:37.220 know if I can answer this, but let's give it a shot. He says, what is so illegal other than 01:16:37.220 --> 01:16:42.660 the blue, red, and beige boxing and opt diverting? It seems to me, other than that, you are either 01:16:42.660 --> 01:16:50.760 simply using the phone, more dialing or collecting numbers, or protecting your privacy. Now, 2Geeky 01:16:50.760 --> 01:16:54.340 has, okay, I'm going to stop the email in the middle. He goes on a little bit more. Let's 01:16:54.340 --> 01:17:01.220 stop it right there and answer that first question. And that is, what is so illegal about freaking 01:17:01.220 --> 01:17:09.100 other than boxing? Well, boxing, of course, is the controversial part of freaking, and that's 01:17:09.100 --> 01:17:13.660 the, a lot of the real freaks hate referring to freaking as just getting free phone calls. It's 01:17:13.660 --> 01:17:18.520 one of the things they've always emphasized and said, that it's not about getting free 01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:25.140 phone calls. Freaking is about finding out how the phone system works. So, I do not see 01:17:25.140 --> 01:17:30.720 anything wrong with trying to understand and learn how something works. It's like anything 01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:36.020 else. It's, um, exploring to a certain extent is fine. I can do pretty much anything I want 01:17:36.020 --> 01:17:41.060 to my own computer system to make a metaphor into hacking. But as soon as I go, let's say 01:17:41.060 --> 01:17:46.180 I want to find out how my computer machine works, and then I go to how, go the next step 01:17:46.180 --> 01:17:50.880 further to how my hub, computer hub machine router works, router machine works, and then 01:17:50.880 --> 01:17:54.620 I want to take it outside. I mean, at some point, I'm going to cross a line where I'm not 01:17:54.620 --> 01:17:59.540 supposed to be looking anymore. So, I can be making phone calls and stuff like that, 01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:04.020 but as soon as I find a system out there, like, for example, a DATU, which is something 01:18:04.020 --> 01:18:09.560 that's, you know, people talk about a lot, um, which is a computerized system out there 01:18:09.560 --> 01:18:15.420 that lets you do some diagnostics. I'm not authorized to use something like that. So, dialing 01:18:15.420 --> 01:18:20.720 a number is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but at some point, you have to hang up and 01:18:20.720 --> 01:18:24.960 say, I'm not supposed to be here, and that's where that fine line gets crossed, because 01:18:24.960 --> 01:18:30.120 sometimes you don't know what it is you've dialed until it's kind of too late. So, the 01:18:30.120 --> 01:18:34.640 act of phone freaking is not illegal in and of itself, making a lot of phone calls, listening 01:18:34.640 --> 01:18:39.540 to error messages, which is another huge part of it, finding out what, uh, interactions there 01:18:39.540 --> 01:18:44.860 are between phone companies. That's all perfectly fine. I mean, unless there's something, can 01:18:44.860 --> 01:18:46.540 you think of anything, Logos, that might be... 01:18:46.540 --> 01:18:58.280 Um, besides stealing servers, I think everything should be fine, you know. If, you know, if they 01:18:58.280 --> 01:19:00.540 don't want you to have access to DATU, then it shouldn't be there. 01:19:00.540 --> 01:19:05.480 Yeah, but they're there for them, for authorized... It's kind of like authorized users. It's kind 01:19:05.480 --> 01:19:10.600 of like putting your computer on the interweb, and then when somebody accesses it, you're 01:19:10.600 --> 01:19:16.080 the one that put it there, for whatever reason, and that doesn't mean that it's okay to hack 01:19:16.080 --> 01:19:20.360 it. That doesn't mean it's okay for somebody to have unauthorized access. So, I guess there's 01:19:20.360 --> 01:19:27.960 basically two, two things in freaking that are dangerous or illegal. That is, uh, fraud, 01:19:27.960 --> 01:19:31.820 fraud, that is, getting free phone calls of some kind, committing fraud, or committing 01:19:31.820 --> 01:19:36.540 unauthorized access of a protected system. That's the only two things I can think of 01:19:36.540 --> 01:19:37.520 that are illegal. 01:19:37.520 --> 01:19:39.800 What about, like, spoofing or something? 01:19:41.180 --> 01:19:45.620 Well, see, the jury is still out on that one. That's a big controversy that's still ongoing, 01:19:46.760 --> 01:19:56.200 because spoofing... The FCC regulates the telephone industry, and they require certain information 01:19:56.200 --> 01:20:00.100 to be sent through phone lines. It's in their regulations, and the phone companies have to 01:20:00.100 --> 01:20:06.500 comply with that. However, with the onset of VoIP, VoIP does not fall under FCC regulations, 01:20:06.620 --> 01:20:12.340 which is why they've been trying so hard, and fighting so hard, to get control of VoIP, because 01:20:12.340 --> 01:20:17.260 if they do, then they can start controlling that. But right now, there's nothing technically 01:20:17.260 --> 01:20:23.740 illegal. Now, I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this completely to heart, but I'm pretty doggone 01:20:23.740 --> 01:20:28.760 sure that there's nothing innately illegal about spoofing a phone number when it's your 01:20:28.760 --> 01:20:34.100 system, your software, your asterisk box, your whatever, your PBX, and you're doing all 01:20:34.100 --> 01:20:39.060 the controlling. I don't think there's anything inherently illegal about that. But, again, I 01:20:39.060 --> 01:20:41.640 am not a lawyer, so I would not know for sure. 01:20:42.400 --> 01:20:45.060 Well, that's given you're not spoofing with law enforcement. 01:20:46.160 --> 01:20:51.480 Well, yeah, that's who you're spoofing to and what you're spoofing. You know, you don't 01:20:51.480 --> 01:20:56.220 want to mess around with 911, because that's a whole other federal jurisdiction level when 01:20:56.220 --> 01:21:00.520 you mess around with things like that. So, I'm afraid that's pretty much the best answer 01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:06.740 I can give. Maybe I'll get Black Ratchett or somebody on the show in the future to follow 01:21:06.740 --> 01:21:09.480 up to this a little bit more, with a little bit more detail. 01:21:10.740 --> 01:21:16.980 Now, the second part of this email goes back to episode 149. Too Geeky goes on to say, 01:21:16.980 --> 01:21:22.140 episode 149, Digital Forensics. For other listeners who might want to know more about 01:21:22.140 --> 01:21:31.600 digital forensics, they should listen to the Cyberspeak podcast at cyberspeak.libsyn.com. 01:21:31.760 --> 01:21:36.840 It is done by a couple of cybercrime investigators. I think their feed goes back to episode one. 01:21:37.160 --> 01:21:42.200 They talk about in-case, cell phone forensics, subpoenas for information from Google, and the 01:21:42.200 --> 01:21:46.860 most recent podcast, one of the topics they discuss is how much info they can get from 01:21:46.860 --> 01:21:50.880 your RAM. Essentially, they can get a snapshot of the last application you were running. 01:21:51.020 --> 01:21:56.440 It sounded Windows-specific. It's a good listen if episode 149 got your Jones on for some digital 01:21:56.440 --> 01:22:01.660 forensics, or if you want to know how screwed you are when the hammer drops. Of course, if 01:22:01.660 --> 01:22:06.800 you hack responsibly, you will not need to worry. So, yes, Too Geeky, thank you for that email. 01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:16.180 And, again, that is cyberspeak.libsyn.com. That sounds really interesting. I'm actually 01:22:16.180 --> 01:22:17.160 going to check that one out. 01:22:19.520 --> 01:22:24.520 No, one thing you said about the RAM, though, like, well, if they can read the RAM, a lot 01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:29.440 of times when they find these boxes, they leave them all on purpose to save the memory that's 01:22:29.440 --> 01:22:29.860 on the RAM. 01:22:30.620 --> 01:22:36.260 Oh, yeah, that's standard practice, because I did some research for that episode, because 01:22:36.260 --> 01:22:40.840 that is, again, that was not my forte. I'm learning a lot about that, too. Standard practice, 01:22:40.960 --> 01:22:45.860 the first thing is to not touch the computer, not turn the computer off. You know, there's 01:22:45.860 --> 01:22:50.320 a certain way, and they actually have a chart, and maybe I'll try and find that somewhere and 01:22:50.320 --> 01:22:53.900 put it on the show notes. They have a chart that you're supposed to tell what operating 01:22:53.900 --> 01:22:58.200 system it is, and it tells you the best way to shut it down so that you do not cause harm 01:22:58.200 --> 01:23:04.080 to the forensic evidence. Some operating systems, it's better to power it off, do not go through 01:23:04.080 --> 01:23:08.320 a shutdown process. Some operating systems, it's better to type in a certain command. 01:23:08.440 --> 01:23:12.320 Some operating systems, it's better to leave it on and grab an image of memory before you, 01:23:12.740 --> 01:23:19.160 there's all these different steps that they can take. So, you know what? I think, I don't 01:23:19.160 --> 01:23:22.120 think we're going to have enough time to do any more emails, and I think we're going to 01:23:22.120 --> 01:23:27.920 have to wrap the show up. So, Logos X, do you have any shouts? I'll let you take first 01:23:27.920 --> 01:23:28.780 crack of shouts tonight. 01:23:29.580 --> 01:23:32.460 Well, I've got to give shouts to the BinRev 561. 01:23:32.880 --> 01:23:33.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:23:36.180 --> 01:23:43.740 My old crew at the 561 still holding it down. And since we're along the same lines, I'll give 01:23:43.740 --> 01:23:49.460 shoutouts to the BR662 meeting. All the guys at the BR662, shoutouts to them. They are having 01:23:49.460 --> 01:23:54.340 a meeting today while the show is airing. Probably in their meeting right now, probably 01:23:54.340 --> 01:24:01.720 having just nasty, wild, just butt naked, all kinds of nastiness and carrying on. All 01:24:01.720 --> 01:24:05.480 right, maybe not. I don't know what I'm talking about. But I wouldn't put it past those guys. 01:24:05.660 --> 01:24:10.000 So, shoutouts to them. And our side of the week. Let me think. What is our side of the 01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:13.240 week, I guess? You know what? I'm going to go, I'm going to give the side of the week 01:24:13.240 --> 01:24:21.960 to that podcast that Too Geeky just told us about. And that again is Cyberspeak, all 01:24:21.960 --> 01:24:32.160 one word, C-Y-B-E-R-S-P-E-A-K dot L-I-B-S-Y-N dot com. If you have email for us, feedback of 01:24:32.160 --> 01:24:37.360 any kind, good, bad, ugly, indifferent, something we missed, something we made a mistake, or just 01:24:37.360 --> 01:24:45.180 to tell me that I sound sexy as hell, or not, you can email us, radio at binrev.com, or 01:24:45.180 --> 01:24:49.840 yell at me how I didn't even let Logosex get a word in edgewise on the show. You're going 01:24:49.840 --> 01:24:52.820 to have to come back. We're going to have to have you on for a longer part of the show. 01:24:52.900 --> 01:24:58.060 This was a late night, last minute fill-in, the last few minutes of the show tonight. 01:24:58.140 --> 01:25:00.080 So we're going to have to have you on an upcoming episode. 01:25:00.080 --> 01:25:08.740 Closing music tonight is from Nurse Hella, and the track is called Nurse Hellamentry. Kind 01:25:08.740 --> 01:25:15.960 of a cool track with a beat from Bad Spella, a good friend of MC Frontalot and several other 01:25:15.960 --> 01:25:20.940 nerdcore artists. So always putting out some cool beats, and this one is no exception. So 01:25:20.940 --> 01:25:25.440 we're going to close out with that. And Logos, thank you for helping out with the email and 01:25:25.440 --> 01:25:30.060 to all of our other hosts tonight. And if you can help me close out the show, we'll tell 01:25:30.060 --> 01:25:33.520 everybody that we will see them next week. Same Hack Time. 01:25:34.280 --> 01:25:35.220 Same Hack Channel. 01:25:35.860 --> 01:25:38.220 This is a world premiere. 01:25:38.220 --> 01:25:44.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:44.020 --> 01:25:46.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:46.020 --> 01:25:50.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:50.020 --> 01:25:52.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:52.020 --> 01:25:54.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:54.020 --> 01:25:55.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:55.020 --> 01:25:56.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:56.020 --> 01:25:57.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:57.020 --> 01:25:58.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:58.020 --> 01:25:59.020 This is a world premiere. 01:25:59.020 --> 01:26:00.560 This is a world premiere. 01:26:00.560 --> 01:26:01.360 This is all the passengers. 01:26:01.360 --> 01:26:02.180 This is a world premiere. 01:26:02.180 --> 01:26:03.220 This is a world premiere. 01:26:03.220 --> 01:26:04.500 This is a world premiere. 01:26:04.500 --> 01:26:05.180 This is a world premiere. 01:26:05.180 --> 01:26:05.580 This is a world premiere. 01:26:05.580 --> 01:26:06.280 This is a world premiere. 01:26:06.280 --> 01:26:07.680 This is a world premiere. 01:26:07.680 --> 01:26:12.320 I'm super evil dead so won't you hail to the queen 01:26:12.320 --> 01:26:14.840 I'm a birthling in courage, there's elementary 01:26:14.840 --> 01:26:19.020 I'm a ultra blinginist, I'm a nerdlinger, see 01:26:19.020 --> 01:26:22.940 But I'm precocious, fractal mackalicious, then pedale, alatom 01:26:22.940 --> 01:26:25.420 I'm a birthling in courage, there's elementary 01:26:25.420 --> 01:26:29.620 I'm a ultra blinginist, I'm a nerdlinger, see 01:26:29.620 --> 01:26:33.520 But I'm precocious, fractal mackalicious, then pedale, alatom 01:26:33.520 --> 01:26:36.060 Cause trouble, man, I do it for kicks 01:26:36.060 --> 01:26:38.820 I'm sneaking backstage with my jet and mine tricks 01:26:38.820 --> 01:26:41.320 And my VIP fix, in the thick of the mix 01:26:41.320 --> 01:26:44.040 Wanna go back to my place, party really licks 01:26:44.040 --> 01:26:46.720 Got a humping in the lobby, heavy bedding in the car 01:26:46.720 --> 01:26:49.320 Lay around on my court, see if you can score a call 01:26:49.320 --> 01:26:51.980 Stop fucking get so boring, all to do is talk and talk 01:26:51.980 --> 01:26:54.560 Take us out, I sneak how I can play, bubble bomb 01:26:54.560 --> 01:26:57.020 I'm a birthling in courage, there's elementary 01:26:57.020 --> 01:27:01.220 I'm a ultra blinginist, I'm a nerdlinger, see 01:27:01.220 --> 01:27:05.180 But I'm precocious, fractal mackalicious, then pedale, alatom 01:27:05.180 --> 01:27:13.000 Sometimes I stomp fighters, sometimes I get high 01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:15.620 Yes, I listen to Rush, no I ain't gonna lie 01:27:15.620 --> 01:27:18.360 I brought the science in my rhyme, doesn't fly like Bill Nye 01:27:18.360 --> 01:27:21.020 Fuck your H2O, give me a double coke and rye 01:27:21.020 --> 01:27:23.760 Let's play, spin the bottle, you'll look like Harry Potter 01:27:23.760 --> 01:27:26.240 My kisses never miss, you'll be reduced to Bantha Potter 01:27:26.240 --> 01:27:28.920 I'm like a real hop, but if I make it any hotter 01:27:28.920 --> 01:27:31.180 I'm gonna make you cream on 80 million dollars 01:27:31.180 --> 01:27:33.900 I'm a birthling in courage, there's elementary 01:27:33.900 --> 01:27:36.520 I'm the ultra blinginist, it's dancing 01:27:36.520 --> 01:27:38.200 I'm a nerdlinger, see 01:27:38.200 --> 01:27:39.000 But I'm precocious 01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:41.940 It is fractal mackalicious, then pedale, alatom 01:27:41.940 --> 01:27:44.420 I'm a birthling in courage, there's elementary 01:27:44.420 --> 01:27:46.800 I'm the ultra blinginist, it's crack in C 01:27:46.800 --> 01:27:48.720 I'm a nerdlinger, see 01:27:48.720 --> 01:27:50.040 But I'm precocious 01:27:50.040 --> 01:27:52.640 It is fractal mackalicious, then pedale, alatom 01:27:52.640 --> 01:27:55.100 I'm a birthling in courage, there's elementary 01:27:55.100 --> 01:27:57.200 I get an ultra-blankin' instant 01:27:57.200 --> 01:27:57.860 and see 01:27:57.860 --> 01:27:59.240 I'm in earth legacy 01:27:59.240 --> 01:28:00.620 I bet I'm precocious 01:28:00.620 --> 01:28:01.880 It's fractal now we'll just 01:28:01.880 --> 01:28:03.960 but a retaliation with precocious 01:28:03.960 --> 01:28:10.160 That's Bella 01:28:10.160 --> 01:28:12.760 Dr. Sella 01:28:12.760 --> 01:28:16.200 You better tell her 01:28:16.200 --> 01:28:17.680 to somebody