WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:09.460 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:09.760 --> 00:15.520 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:15.520 --> 00:20.780 and a fag pwned, in your digital stance getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in 00:20.780 --> 00:26.440 my six-fold, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable, 00:26.440 --> 00:31.740 on the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and 00:31.740 --> 00:37.240 I'm a hero, in a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast, you need some ISO, let me through 00:37.240 --> 00:42.680 my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught 00:42.680 --> 00:48.940 the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's 00:48.940 --> 00:53.460 all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling 00:53.460 --> 00:58.140 your phones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ leaves you flat on your 00:58.140 --> 01:03.440 back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:03.940 --> 01:11.160 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, 01:11.160 --> 01:14.200 SIFs, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers. 01:14.200 --> 01:24.800 Welcome everyone to the last episode of Binary Revolution Radio for season 3, number 156. 01:24.800 --> 01:33.060 We are coming to you on 7-11-2006, that's July 11th, not 7-11, your store that's open 24 hours 01:33.060 --> 01:33.640 for gas. 01:34.960 --> 01:40.580 And you are in for a treat this episode of the show. 01:40.580 --> 01:45.700 Someone is joining me to co-host the show, who's been, and I keep blowing smoke here, 01:45.800 --> 01:50.120 but one of my favorite co-hosts of all the three years that we've been doing it, and I've 01:50.120 --> 01:55.160 really got a lot of great topics that I wanted to catch up on, so we have Ilanka on the show 01:55.160 --> 01:57.260 with us this evening, welcome to you Ilanka. 01:57.920 --> 02:00.540 Hello Stankdog, I am delighted to be back. 02:00.620 --> 02:06.460 And we are delighted to have you, and we are going to jump right into the main topics of 02:06.460 --> 02:10.500 the show as we do with our new format, so let's do that. 02:10.560 --> 02:11.760 I don't really have anything in housekeeping. 02:12.000 --> 02:15.160 Again, the final episode of season 3 that you're hearing right now. 02:15.860 --> 02:20.280 I guess one minor, I don't even know if I should mention this in housekeeping, because I don't 02:20.280 --> 02:23.720 know what's going to happen, but we do have a one week lag. 02:23.900 --> 02:29.060 We're going to be doing the first episode of season 4, At Hope, which is in two weeks. 02:29.520 --> 02:32.780 So I don't know what we're going to do for an episode next week on the stream. 02:32.780 --> 02:38.600 So we'll have some kind of surprise or something for you next week in our normal time slot, 02:38.720 --> 02:42.940 because it would be kind of weird to do the second episode of season 4, At Hope. 02:43.020 --> 02:44.640 That just doesn't have the same ring to it. 02:44.700 --> 02:49.780 So we're going to do the first episode, and we'll bring something different in next week's 02:50.420 --> 02:51.460 time slot. 02:51.620 --> 02:53.040 So keep on the lookout. 02:53.180 --> 02:54.940 I'm sure it will be something interesting. 02:55.900 --> 02:58.200 I just don't know what that interesting thing is yet. 02:58.240 --> 03:02.160 But we do have some interesting topics on the show, and we're going to have to really 03:02.160 --> 03:04.640 work to get all of these topics in, quite honestly. 03:05.080 --> 03:09.480 So let's jump into the first thing, and this is one topic that was discussed in our forums 03:09.480 --> 03:13.960 quite a bit, and I've been dying to get you on to talk about it, and that is the fact 03:13.960 --> 03:18.360 that Cryptos, part two, was wrong. 03:18.460 --> 03:19.360 It was incorrect. 03:19.620 --> 03:20.580 What happened, Alonca? 03:20.580 --> 03:21.300 What happened? 03:21.300 --> 03:30.800 Well, what it was is the artist, James, okay, Cryptos, for any of your listeners who aren't 03:30.800 --> 03:36.100 sure, just a quick coming up to date, Cryptos is a sculpture at the center of CIA headquarters. 03:36.280 --> 03:37.780 It was installed there in 1990. 03:38.200 --> 03:40.320 It was a challenge to the employees at the CIA. 03:40.740 --> 03:42.380 It has four codes on it. 03:42.500 --> 03:44.920 Three of the four have been solved, or so we thought. 03:45.400 --> 03:49.400 And the fourth one has not been solved, and it's one of the most famous unsolved codes 03:49.400 --> 03:49.880 in the world. 03:50.380 --> 03:56.900 Well, the first three parts were solved publicly in 1999 by a California computer scientist 03:56.900 --> 04:02.420 named Jim Galogli, and then the CIA came forward and announced that they had someone named David 04:02.420 --> 04:07.780 Stein who had also solved those first three parts the year before that, in 1998, and then 04:07.780 --> 04:11.440 the NSA came forward and said, well, we've solved those first three parts, too, but we're 04:11.440 --> 04:14.660 not going to tell you who solved them, or we're not going to tell you when they were solved, 04:14.720 --> 04:16.160 which is a very NSA thing. 04:16.160 --> 04:23.780 Well, Sanborn, the artist who made Cryptos, he actually called me up on the phone in April 04:23.780 --> 04:31.980 saying, oops, that in part two, which we thought we had solved, he said that there was actually 04:31.980 --> 04:33.320 a small mistake at the end of it. 04:33.680 --> 04:38.240 What we thought part two said, I'll just go ahead and read you what we thought was the 04:38.240 --> 04:39.480 correct plain text for part two. 04:39.700 --> 04:42.960 We originally thought it said it was totally invisible. 04:42.960 --> 04:44.600 How is that possible? 04:45.060 --> 04:47.780 They used the Earth's magnetic field, X. 04:48.040 --> 04:53.080 The information was gathered and transmitted underground to an unknown location, X. 04:53.440 --> 04:54.940 Does Langley know about this? 04:55.080 --> 04:55.760 They should. 04:55.920 --> 04:58.060 It's buried out there somewhere, X. 04:58.340 --> 04:59.800 Who knows the exact location? 05:00.280 --> 05:01.180 Only WW. 05:01.580 --> 05:03.380 This was his last message, X. 05:03.840 --> 05:07.700 38 degrees, 57 minutes, 6.5 seconds north. 05:08.100 --> 05:11.140 77 degrees, 8 minutes, 44 seconds west. 05:11.140 --> 05:12.580 I.D. by Rose. 05:13.180 --> 05:18.280 Well, when Sanborn called me up, he said that I.D. by Rose part is wrong. 05:18.700 --> 05:21.140 Okay, the numbers themselves were correct, though? 05:21.760 --> 05:22.240 I'm sorry? 05:22.360 --> 05:24.900 The numbers themselves, the latitude and longitudes were correct? 05:25.180 --> 05:26.840 He said all of that was fine. 05:26.860 --> 05:27.100 Okay. 05:27.240 --> 05:27.420 Woo! 05:27.420 --> 05:33.420 But the I.D. by Rose part was wrong, and he said that when he had heard people saying 05:33.420 --> 05:39.700 the answer before, he had assumed that they weren't reading the answer, that they were 05:39.700 --> 05:44.640 saying, oh, we've solved this part up through 44 seconds west, I.D. by Rose, and he thought 05:44.640 --> 05:47.140 that I.D. by Rose meant this is how we solved it. 05:47.200 --> 05:50.220 We put it into a Rose technique, and then we I.D.ed it. 05:50.840 --> 05:54.620 And when he was working on something, he was working on some other project, and he was 05:54.620 --> 05:58.560 looking at it, and then he thought, uh-oh, people think this is part of the answer, but 05:58.560 --> 05:59.120 it's not. 05:59.620 --> 06:01.000 So he called me up and told me it was wrong. 06:01.060 --> 06:02.940 Now, he didn't tell me what it was supposed to say. 06:03.200 --> 06:04.340 He just said it was wrong. 06:04.340 --> 06:06.480 So I'm like, oh, my God. 06:07.100 --> 06:07.460 Right. 06:07.860 --> 06:08.100 Well. 06:08.460 --> 06:14.340 And I sent an I.M. message to the co-moderator of the Cryptos group, Chris Hampson, and basically 06:14.340 --> 06:16.200 the first part of our message is back and forth. 06:16.280 --> 06:17.120 There's no words. 06:17.200 --> 06:21.520 It's just punctuation going back and forth, like I'm sending him exclamation points, and 06:21.520 --> 06:26.680 he's sending me question marks back, and gradually I share this information. 06:26.680 --> 06:31.680 And so Chris and I tossed some ideas back and forth about what this could potentially 06:31.680 --> 06:36.500 mean, and as part of that brainstorming, it was definitely both of us going back and 06:36.500 --> 06:41.960 forth, I tried a different method and came up with, oh, instead of ID by Rose, if we 06:41.960 --> 06:46.080 tweak the following thing, if we, Sanborn had said something about a missing letter. 06:46.500 --> 06:51.140 So if I put a letter in a certain place, it changed the last part of the message to say 06:51.140 --> 06:55.800 something else, which was instead of ID by Rose, it said X, layer two. 06:56.740 --> 06:59.980 And I called Sanborn back, and I asked him, is this what it's supposed to say? 07:00.080 --> 07:00.680 And he said, yes. 07:00.680 --> 07:02.760 So I'm like, ah, I better write a press release. 07:03.700 --> 07:06.720 And then it was just all hell broke loose. 07:06.960 --> 07:08.660 It was international media attention. 07:09.080 --> 07:14.540 I should also mention that when we saw the words layer two, it was like we've seen these 07:14.540 --> 07:15.120 words before. 07:15.200 --> 07:20.840 And what it was is that last fall in the cryptos group, there's a lot of brainstorming 07:20.840 --> 07:21.920 going on all the time. 07:22.620 --> 07:27.140 And someone else in the group, a woman named Monet Friedrich from Canada, had been playing 07:27.140 --> 07:30.140 with something else in part two where she was doing what's called crypt dragging, and 07:30.140 --> 07:34.960 she was moving a key word back and forth, trying to see if the text changed, if she put the 07:34.960 --> 07:36.200 key word in different locations. 07:36.640 --> 07:42.720 Because part two, it uses a system where the message, each ciphertext letter can change to 07:42.720 --> 07:47.060 a different plaintext letter based not only on what it is, like is it a C or a D, but 07:47.060 --> 07:47.860 where it is. 07:48.060 --> 07:51.580 So that if you even move it to the left or move it to the right by a single location, that 07:51.580 --> 07:54.680 can change what it decrypts to because of the kind of method. 07:54.840 --> 07:57.600 It's called a polyalphabetic cipher system. 07:57.600 --> 08:01.880 So Monet was playing with this crypt dragon where she was moving other things back and 08:01.880 --> 08:07.300 forth, and she came up with words, player two, at the end of part two, and she presented 08:07.300 --> 08:12.260 it to the group, and someone said, hmm, player two, well, and we didn't know at that time 08:12.260 --> 08:19.560 if it was something real or if it was something that was, there's all kinds of like statistical 08:19.560 --> 08:23.580 oddities that we're always seeing about the sculpture, and like, okay, is this something 08:23.580 --> 08:26.060 important or is this just kind of an interesting observation? 08:26.060 --> 08:30.940 And someone else said, player two, well, I don't know about the words player two, but 08:30.940 --> 08:36.260 that layer two, L-A-Y-E-R-T-W-O, lines up exactly with the words ID by Rose. 08:36.400 --> 08:37.740 I wonder if that means anything. 08:38.520 --> 08:43.880 And a few other people in the group also kind of jumped in and were brainstorming about it, 08:44.000 --> 08:47.660 and then it kind of got filed away as something that was interesting, but we didn't know what 08:47.660 --> 08:48.080 to do with. 08:48.140 --> 08:52.160 And then when Chris and I were brainstorming and we came up with those same words, layer 08:52.160 --> 08:54.700 two, in that same spot, I'm like, aha, okay. 08:54.700 --> 08:57.940 So I want to make sure that Monet also gets some props for this. 08:59.720 --> 09:04.840 So Sanborn said yes, and then the press release went out, and it just got huge media attention. 09:05.100 --> 09:09.960 When we saw the Cyrillic projector, it did not get the kind of attention that it did when 09:09.960 --> 09:11.760 we said, oh, but there's a mistake. 09:11.760 --> 09:20.040 It was on just dozens of countries around the world, including on AOL. 09:20.280 --> 09:22.960 It was the number one news item on AOL. 09:23.460 --> 09:26.800 I was like checking my web traffic and seeing the spikes. 09:26.920 --> 09:30.920 Oh, well, here we got slash dotted, and oh, okay, here we got stumble upon, it's doing, 09:31.040 --> 09:32.720 oh, wow, oh, wow, AOL. 09:32.720 --> 09:37.100 And just thousands and thousands of people coming into the site. 09:37.480 --> 09:42.960 And NPR did a segment on it as well, which was, that was the moment that I went most into 09:42.960 --> 09:44.000 fangirl mode. 09:45.000 --> 09:50.300 All through the NPR segment, I was sitting at my chair, and I was hanging on to my desk, 09:50.360 --> 09:55.040 and I was white-knuckled through the whole segment because I was like, oh, my God, I'm 09:55.040 --> 09:56.520 being interviewed by Melissa Block. 09:57.800 --> 09:59.680 I was in complete fangirl mode. 09:59.840 --> 10:04.760 More so than some of the television and other interviews and stuff that you've done. 10:05.580 --> 10:05.980 Yes. 10:06.260 --> 10:09.340 The NPR was, it just made my heart go pitter-pat. 10:10.020 --> 10:15.200 Now, just, that's actually a good segue into something else I wanted to mention, but before 10:15.200 --> 10:20.160 we do, I just want to remind our listeners that this cryptos group that you keep referring 10:20.160 --> 10:23.180 to is not some secret society of whatever. 10:23.180 --> 10:28.820 This is a Yahoo group that if someone is interested, I mean, it's open to anybody to join, am I 10:28.820 --> 10:29.120 correct? 10:29.820 --> 10:30.300 Absolutely. 10:30.700 --> 10:36.220 All they have to do is send an email to cryptos-subscribe at yahoogroups.com. 10:36.360 --> 10:41.260 We currently have over 1,000 members from all over the world, and some of them are regular 10:41.260 --> 10:46.340 cryptographers, and some are hobbyists, and some people are just interested in it. 10:46.460 --> 10:47.960 They don't play with codes at all. 10:48.000 --> 10:49.740 They're just interested in following the process. 10:49.740 --> 10:54.280 All we ask is that anyone who joins the group, they have to introduce themselves, and they 10:54.280 --> 10:55.380 have to stay constructive. 10:56.180 --> 11:01.360 We also have an agreement which was, started from Gary Worson, who was the co-founder of 11:01.360 --> 11:03.020 the group with me, the late Gary Worson. 11:03.100 --> 11:05.440 He actually passed away from a heart attack last year. 11:05.440 --> 11:12.600 We say that if you're in the group, one thing you have to agree is that any solution that 11:12.600 --> 11:18.740 we find has to be announced as a group, and that we're trying to encourage the process of 11:18.740 --> 11:23.320 brainstorming where everybody can come in and everybody can participate, and we're trying 11:23.320 --> 11:27.740 to avoid that situation where one person has information and doesn't want to share it 11:27.740 --> 11:31.280 because they want to be the only people that get credit for whatever it is they're doing. 11:31.280 --> 11:35.620 Right, right, something that we also encourage on the BINREV forums, and then a lot of the 11:35.620 --> 11:36.740 projects that we do as well. 11:37.860 --> 11:39.720 And yes, I'm a member of that group myself. 11:40.000 --> 11:44.380 I fall under the interested people hobbyist category, I guess. 11:45.080 --> 11:48.900 Thanks to you, you were the one that turned me on to joining that. 11:48.980 --> 11:53.180 And actually, oh man, I don't know if I should bring this up on the air, but I'm going to. 11:53.260 --> 11:54.560 We can edit it out if we need to. 11:55.320 --> 12:00.500 But I had left you some voicemails and sent you a couple emails because there was some 12:00.500 --> 12:01.740 spam coming from your account. 12:01.780 --> 12:02.360 Do you remember that? 12:02.820 --> 12:03.580 Oh my God, yeah. 12:03.640 --> 12:05.420 Somebody was spoofing my email address. 12:05.500 --> 12:06.720 I think it was coming out of India. 12:07.120 --> 12:07.920 Is that what it was? 12:08.440 --> 12:12.520 Yeah, and it was just, what I did is I put myself on moderation. 12:12.860 --> 12:14.120 It wasn't coming from me. 12:14.200 --> 12:16.180 It wasn't one of my systems that was infected. 12:16.180 --> 12:16.560 Right, obviously. 12:16.560 --> 12:19.520 It was just something somewhere that was spoofing my address. 12:19.860 --> 12:23.040 And it was coming in like just dozens per day. 12:23.160 --> 12:24.200 It was really annoying. 12:24.200 --> 12:26.680 And it was obvious spam that was being sent. 12:26.760 --> 12:28.820 It was obvious that something was going on, that something was wrong. 12:28.860 --> 12:30.900 And actually, Booter's the one that pointed it out to me. 12:31.480 --> 12:32.820 And then I tried to get in touch with you. 12:32.940 --> 12:34.880 So yeah, it looked like you got it squared away. 12:34.980 --> 12:36.220 But I've been meaning to ask you that. 12:36.240 --> 12:38.160 I don't think I ever asked you whatever you found out. 12:38.200 --> 12:39.760 But it turned out it was something from India, huh? 12:40.680 --> 12:41.780 That's our best guess. 12:42.040 --> 12:45.300 I know a few people that are fairly technically literate. 12:45.800 --> 12:48.740 They were kind of tracking down the headers and stuff. 12:48.860 --> 12:51.520 And that's where it seemed that the majority was coming from, yeah. 12:51.760 --> 12:52.460 Okay, well, good. 12:52.460 --> 12:53.820 Glad that got settled out. 12:54.200 --> 12:59.660 And because you were a moderator, it went straight out automatically, no approval, et cetera, et cetera. 12:59.860 --> 13:00.580 Right, right. 13:00.680 --> 13:03.260 It was like, you know, this message does not need to be approved. 13:03.380 --> 13:04.060 It's from Ilanka. 13:04.400 --> 13:04.720 Exactly. 13:04.720 --> 13:10.000 Yeah, so that's one of the problems with Yahoo is that it doesn't check. 13:10.580 --> 13:13.200 There's no IP tagging, to my knowledge. 13:13.280 --> 13:17.780 It doesn't say, did this letter really come from one of the IPs that is associated with this account? 13:17.900 --> 13:19.860 They just look at the from address and go from there. 13:20.060 --> 13:20.280 All right. 13:20.280 --> 13:23.020 That is absolutely a bug in Yahoo Groups. 13:23.100 --> 13:24.340 That's a problem. 13:24.340 --> 13:27.340 But anyway, so... 13:27.340 --> 13:35.060 To Yahoo Groups' credit, it seems like they are increasing some of their spam filtering or spam fighting techniques. 13:35.140 --> 13:43.180 When I was looking at the group earlier today, I saw that on the group webpage that they've just added a category for spam now. 13:43.500 --> 13:45.380 So that is, we're reviewing messages. 13:47.200 --> 13:48.940 And I'm not sure how it's working yet. 13:48.980 --> 13:50.140 I just noticed that they've added that. 13:50.200 --> 13:53.980 But my guess is whatever happened with the cryptos group was not unique to our group. 13:54.100 --> 13:56.500 I'm sure this is a problem that they've been having all over the place. 13:56.720 --> 13:57.440 Probably, probably. 13:57.600 --> 14:03.960 And actually, I guess that could be a topic for another show, but Yahoo's been doing some really cool stuff lately in general. 14:03.960 --> 14:14.360 So they're really, really putting out a lot of cool things, and they're really fighting to stay on the cutting edge of a lot of, I guess, popular memes, for lack of a better word right now. 14:14.420 --> 14:25.660 Some popular offerings to people, and I've been using their beta version of their webmail client for quite a while now that they've bumped up their storage to compete with Google's gigabyte of Gmail or whatever. 14:26.420 --> 14:29.920 However, they still offer, I think, a lot better features and filtering and whatnot. 14:29.920 --> 14:30.920 But I digress. 14:31.640 --> 14:32.340 Back on topic. 14:32.340 --> 14:34.620 Wait, which do you like better, Yahoo Mail or Google Mail? 14:34.740 --> 14:36.080 I like Yahoo Mail much better. 14:36.560 --> 14:36.840 Really? 14:37.020 --> 14:37.260 Okay. 14:37.580 --> 14:42.280 Mostly, honestly, it's mostly because I still like the folder metaphor. 14:42.720 --> 14:45.460 I don't like that whole starring and tagging and labeling. 14:45.640 --> 14:46.680 I know it kind of can work the same. 14:46.680 --> 14:46.920 I agree. 14:47.100 --> 14:47.500 I agree. 14:48.020 --> 14:49.440 I have trouble with that as well. 14:49.720 --> 14:53.100 And if you're using the beta, it's all JavaScript. 14:53.100 --> 15:00.200 It's all Java-based, so you can drag and drop as though it were like a normal Outlook or a normal local mail client, 15:00.200 --> 15:07.700 so I can still drag and drop the folders, which is easier than tagging however many individual ones and then click move to or whatever. 15:08.880 --> 15:09.020 Okay. 15:09.240 --> 15:10.920 What about the contact list? 15:11.060 --> 15:20.820 That's something that I always – every email program I use, I tend to crash it in terms of just sheer quantity of contacts because I know so many people. 15:20.820 --> 15:32.580 There's hundreds and hundreds of addresses, and I'm always filtering and searching and sorting, and Gmail has – it's got some features I like that make it very, very easy for me to find different contacts, 15:32.760 --> 15:37.160 and I like the way that I can put different labels on things, but the interface is still a little bit clunky. 15:37.480 --> 15:38.960 How does Yahoo work for that? 15:38.960 --> 15:41.440 Honestly, I don't think I can speak too well to that. 15:41.660 --> 15:49.000 I do have maybe 100 or 200 contacts on there, but quite honestly, I don't play with them a whole lot. 15:49.340 --> 15:51.540 The only thing I use them for is autocomplete. 15:52.120 --> 15:52.380 Okay. 15:52.740 --> 15:57.820 It'll automatically look up in my contacts and fill out someone's name when it's in there, and that's pretty much all I do with it, 15:57.820 --> 16:01.900 so I wouldn't purport to have tested any of the in-depth features of it. 16:01.900 --> 16:08.460 I truly use it for, you know, web mail on the go when I don't have access to my real box at home. 16:08.580 --> 16:10.440 I try to use everything through Yahoo, so. 16:10.940 --> 16:11.260 All right. 16:11.400 --> 16:11.900 But they also – 16:11.900 --> 16:18.300 In email, since they're new, I've been playing with their contact list, and I'm constantly sending them bug reports on different things. 16:18.420 --> 16:21.380 So here's one of my rants about their bug reports. 16:21.380 --> 16:29.840 This is when I send them a bug report, and I send them so many bug reports, and I don't get an archive copy of the report that I just sent. 16:29.840 --> 16:35.820 So they may send me a letter back saying, you know, thank you for your bug report, and it doesn't tell me which one it's referring to. 16:36.000 --> 16:38.480 Or they've written back saying, oh, thank you for this bug report. 16:38.580 --> 16:39.940 Can you please send us more information? 16:40.040 --> 16:43.220 But, again, they don't quote my bug report at me, so I have no idea. 16:43.480 --> 16:44.340 Well, because – 16:44.340 --> 16:47.520 And I wish – I sent a bug report on their bug report system. 16:48.960 --> 16:49.780 See, that's good. 16:49.860 --> 16:52.720 Well, it's because, obviously, it's in your sent items folder. 16:52.980 --> 16:56.460 It's thrown in with all the other stuff, so you can always look it up in your sent items. 16:56.740 --> 16:57.640 Actually, it's not. 16:57.820 --> 16:58.120 No? 16:58.120 --> 17:04.120 No, they have – it's a form-based system where you want to send – yeah, and so it's very irritating, 17:04.240 --> 17:08.500 especially if I've just sent this really lengthy report, and I forgot to archive it on my own. 17:08.580 --> 17:13.040 I mean, I should have just kept it in Notepad or something, but I send it like, oh, damn, it's gone forever, 17:13.200 --> 17:14.860 and I know I'm never going to get a copy back. 17:15.280 --> 17:21.240 And if I don't keep a record, then I don't know – I can't remember which bugs I've reported, so I may have to re-report some other bugs. 17:21.620 --> 17:21.980 Gotcha. 17:22.380 --> 17:22.680 Gotcha. 17:23.120 --> 17:24.940 There's one other thing that they've added to Yahoo. 17:24.940 --> 17:27.860 Since this has turned into a little webmail review, let's go with it. 17:28.120 --> 17:29.140 Let's go with it. 17:29.180 --> 17:41.660 I actually – the latest version of something they added fairly in the last month or two in the Yahoo Mail Webmail beta is when you do – it used to just be one – a window on the left with your folders, 17:41.780 --> 17:46.620 or excuse me, I guess you should say a frame on your left with your folders, and then on the right with the actual whatever you're doing, 17:46.620 --> 17:51.220 whether it's reading a mail, whether it's composing a mail or whatever. 17:51.320 --> 17:58.180 Well, now they've gone to a tab-based thing, so I can actually open up and start composing a mail, and sometimes I'll be doing this and working on something else, 17:58.200 --> 18:00.400 and I get sidetracked and I'll have to step away from it. 18:00.700 --> 18:04.780 Well, I can leave that tab open composing but still open up another mail. 18:04.780 --> 18:11.300 If I do a search, it automatically opens into a new tab, so I don't lose the composed mail that I was in the middle of typing, et cetera, et cetera, 18:11.360 --> 18:13.760 so I can have multiple tabs open within the window as well. 18:14.160 --> 18:18.480 That's something I find tremendously useful because I multitask horribly. 18:18.480 --> 18:24.140 Yeah, on Wikipedia, and I know we're going to be talking about that later, 18:24.260 --> 18:29.560 but I'm always opening up new windows to deal with different articles on Wikipedia at the same time, 18:29.680 --> 18:35.260 and after a couple hours of doing this, I'll look down at my taskbar and I'll see I've got like 50 different browsers all open, 18:35.780 --> 18:40.540 and then I have to like close a bunch of them, and sometimes I wish I could close them like five or six at a time, 18:40.640 --> 18:43.860 but apparently I can just like close the entire group or I can close them one at a time. 18:43.860 --> 18:47.200 Oh, no, no, Ilanka, Ilanka, no, no, no, no, please don't make me say this. 18:47.200 --> 18:49.800 You're not using Internet Explorer. 18:50.280 --> 18:51.980 I use both, actually. 18:52.280 --> 18:58.180 I tend to use Internet Explorer and I use Firefox because there are some things that just don't work with Firefox 18:58.180 --> 19:02.640 that still work with IE, and there's other things that won't work with IE that only work with Firefox. 19:03.060 --> 19:03.580 That's true. 19:03.800 --> 19:05.260 So I've done the tabs on Firefox. 19:06.520 --> 19:11.880 One of the things I don't like about Firefox is the way that the Google toolbar interfaces with it. 19:11.880 --> 19:15.200 I like the Google toolbar better on IE than I do on Firefox. 19:15.200 --> 19:19.700 Hmm, don't they make a separate Google toolbar for Firefox? 19:19.900 --> 19:23.100 You're talking about the one that's built in in the upper right corner of Firefox by default? 19:23.740 --> 19:28.340 Right, like sometimes I want to just search on the current site and I don't want to do a mass search. 19:28.460 --> 19:30.760 Or I like the word highlighting feature on there. 19:31.600 --> 19:31.900 Okay. 19:32.200 --> 19:33.900 So, yeah, I agree with you on that one too. 19:34.680 --> 19:39.180 But having all those tabs instead of 50 open windows is so much more convenient to me. 19:39.180 --> 19:43.060 But, yeah, there are still quite a few sites that only work in IE. 19:43.180 --> 19:49.660 But I've also, there's a great extension for Firefox, excuse me, called Open in IE. 19:50.000 --> 19:51.120 Open this page in IE. 19:51.200 --> 19:55.760 And if you do go to one of those pages that doesn't work, you right-click and say Open it in IE, 19:55.820 --> 19:59.060 and it'll fire up your browser just so you can do that one page. 19:59.100 --> 20:03.320 So you can still stay in Firefox for 99% of the time and go to something else. 20:03.320 --> 20:05.820 But, anyway, we'll get off that soapbox. 20:06.680 --> 20:09.200 Yeah, I still use Internet Explorer for a lot of stuff. 20:09.340 --> 20:11.840 But for the most part, I open up Firefox first. 20:12.680 --> 20:16.440 Yeah, I've got different computers and I keep going back and forth. 20:16.520 --> 20:18.320 On some computers, I default to IE. 20:18.420 --> 20:19.840 On others, I default to Firefox. 20:20.180 --> 20:22.740 And I get confused sometimes as to, okay, which is my home page? 20:22.800 --> 20:25.440 And why am I looking at this page when I open this browser? 20:26.000 --> 20:26.320 Right. 20:26.720 --> 20:30.940 And a lot of work, school, computers, et cetera, they only have Internet Explorer. 20:30.940 --> 20:32.600 So you've just got to be able to adapt. 20:32.600 --> 20:37.380 But, anyway, I think before we got – so there's your mini webmail review. 20:37.540 --> 20:38.240 That's a bonus. 20:38.440 --> 20:40.560 That's a bonus topic in this episode. 20:41.600 --> 20:42.600 That was fun, though. 20:43.080 --> 20:50.160 But I think what I was going to tie us back on was you were talking about all the media coverage from the mistake in cryptos. 20:50.240 --> 20:54.560 Well, that's not the only media coverage that you've been involved in lately. 20:55.340 --> 20:57.760 You also – and let's see, how will I approach it? 20:57.760 --> 21:00.260 You also had a new book that came out recently, right? 21:00.580 --> 21:01.140 Right, right. 21:01.180 --> 21:04.660 The Mammoth Book of Secret Codes and Cryptograms in the United States. 21:04.720 --> 21:08.040 And in the U.K. it had the title The Mammoth Book of Secret Code Puzzles. 21:08.940 --> 21:09.300 Okay. 21:09.420 --> 21:10.920 Why did they rename it differently over there? 21:10.960 --> 21:12.800 They have the same English – 21:12.800 --> 21:15.020 You know, it was just the publisher. 21:15.320 --> 21:22.080 They looked at their respective markets, and the publisher made the decision saying that they thought one title would play better in the U.K. 21:22.080 --> 21:29.360 and another title would play better in the U.S., and I bow to their wisdom on that because they sell more books than I do. 21:29.600 --> 21:30.920 Yeah, exactly, exactly. 21:31.080 --> 21:33.560 Now, what is this book, like $70, $80? 21:35.200 --> 21:37.480 See, that's a little trick. 21:37.540 --> 21:38.280 That makes a nice bit of royalty. 21:38.500 --> 21:39.840 That's a nice little trick I post. 21:39.840 --> 21:46.200 It's, I think, $15, $14 in the United States and, I think, eight pounds in England. 21:46.420 --> 21:50.060 See, I set it up saying that it's $70 or $80, that little trick. 21:50.060 --> 21:57.160 But that way, when you say that it's only $15, wow, wow, what a great bargain that is. 21:57.240 --> 22:02.340 Actually, that is – I actually looked at the book on Amazon, and I really was surprised at $15. 22:02.600 --> 22:05.140 I mean, I really was expecting that to be more than that. 22:05.200 --> 22:06.660 That's actually not a bad price at all. 22:06.700 --> 22:08.340 Are you going to have some of those with you at DEF CON? 22:08.900 --> 22:10.360 Oh, yeah, I'll definitely have some. 22:10.360 --> 22:17.120 There's also an interesting scam that I noticed on Amazon when my book started being released, 22:17.640 --> 22:21.920 which is that on the first day that it was released on Amazon, 22:22.060 --> 22:25.200 I started seeing a whole bunch of used copies showing up. 22:25.280 --> 22:25.680 Right, right. 22:25.700 --> 22:29.160 And I was thinking, how can there possibly be used copies already? 22:29.880 --> 22:34.560 And evidently what it is is that there's some resellers who, when a book comes out, 22:34.560 --> 22:41.400 they will buy the book and then offer it used, seemingly offering it at a lower price 22:41.400 --> 22:43.420 than what Amazon is selling it for. 22:43.880 --> 22:47.240 But they've got this extra $4 shipping and handling on top of it. 22:47.480 --> 22:52.440 So when you go to Amazon and you see the price of a new book, 22:52.500 --> 22:55.500 and it looks like there's a used book that's for a lower price, 22:55.900 --> 23:01.200 if it's only lower by a few bucks, you're probably still better off buying the used copy. 23:02.840 --> 23:03.760 Am I making sense? 23:03.760 --> 23:05.100 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 23:05.340 --> 23:09.540 And Amazon is not going to let somebody undercut them too awful much, willingly. 23:10.440 --> 23:15.360 Amazon is, if they've got the free shipping, they're sending to these resellers, 23:15.480 --> 23:20.320 and they're putting big notices saying you are not allowed to buy books in order to resell. 23:20.840 --> 23:24.560 But I think that that's what these resellers are doing, 23:24.720 --> 23:28.860 is they'll buy the new book, they'll offer it, and they get their discount, 23:28.860 --> 23:32.320 and they don't pay any kind of shipping and handling fee. 23:32.320 --> 23:35.300 And then they offer it at a seemingly lower price, 23:35.540 --> 23:39.740 but then they're basically getting, they're kind of skimming a buck off of each sale. 23:40.160 --> 23:45.040 So whenever I'm on Amazon now and I see a new book that costs like 12 books, 23:45.660 --> 23:47.540 or, I'm sorry, a new book that costs $12, 23:47.960 --> 23:50.840 and a used copy that costs maybe $10, 23:51.300 --> 23:53.980 I'll probably still stick with buying the new copy. 23:54.060 --> 23:55.880 It's a $12 because it's going to come out cheaper. 23:56.380 --> 23:56.820 Right. 23:56.820 --> 23:58.100 If I'm not paying the shipping and handling. 23:58.400 --> 23:58.800 Right. 23:58.960 --> 24:02.080 But don't you have to order $50 or more to get the free shipping? 24:02.280 --> 24:04.700 I haven't ordered from Amazon in a little while, a few months. 24:04.720 --> 24:09.100 Yeah, there is some, but I normally order my books in batches. 24:09.480 --> 24:10.540 Yeah, same with me. 24:10.680 --> 24:14.380 So every two or three months I'll order a batch over $50 and get it for free shipping. 24:14.600 --> 24:17.000 The book is selling well, I understand it then? 24:17.240 --> 24:18.620 Did you say you're in second printing? 24:18.620 --> 24:24.140 Yes, and there was actually some good timing there because there was a big news story, 24:24.340 --> 24:29.420 a different crypto news story that broke, that had to do with Dan Brown and the Da Vinci Code. 24:29.540 --> 24:32.640 He was in the middle of a big plagiarism trial in England. 24:33.720 --> 24:39.960 And it was a funny story, and my phone was ringing off the hook with reporters calling me about this code. 24:39.960 --> 24:46.600 But Dan Brown was being sued by the authors of, two of the authors of the book, Holy Blood, Holy Grail, 24:46.660 --> 24:50.820 who were claiming plagiarism, that he had stolen some of their ideas for the book, The Da Vinci Code. 24:51.440 --> 24:56.480 So the trial was going on this spring, and Dan Brown, he won. 24:56.580 --> 24:58.120 He was cleared of the plagiarism charges. 24:58.560 --> 25:02.360 And the judge, Justice Peter Smith, he wrote a trial ruling. 25:02.360 --> 25:05.120 It was a 71-page trial ruling document. 25:05.660 --> 25:09.140 Well, in the trial ruling, the judge hid a code. 25:09.960 --> 25:11.000 Oh, what? 25:11.920 --> 25:16.680 What he did is he italicized certain letters throughout the trial ruling, 25:16.740 --> 25:19.760 which was a similar method to what Dan Brown has done in some of his codes 25:19.760 --> 25:22.500 and also something to do with the Priory of Scion hoax. 25:22.920 --> 25:26.700 But the judge hid, I think it was a 41-character code in his trial ruling. 25:26.700 --> 25:30.080 Well, it took kind of a couple weeks for people to figure this out, 25:30.140 --> 25:34.540 and then one of the attorneys, I think he was a legal consultant for one of the British papers, 25:34.540 --> 25:37.860 who's noticed this and wrote to the judge about it, and he wrote a story about it, 25:37.920 --> 25:40.300 and it just all hell broke loose. 25:40.460 --> 25:44.700 From what I hear, the entire London legal community ground to a halt 25:44.700 --> 25:47.620 as everybody was trying to crack this code. 25:48.100 --> 25:51.000 And I had Associated Press reporters calling me saying, 25:51.100 --> 25:52.380 Ilanka, we know you're into codes. 25:52.440 --> 25:53.740 Have you cracked this code yet? 25:53.920 --> 25:54.900 And I was like, what code? 25:54.900 --> 25:57.620 I hadn't even heard about it until the reporters started calling me. 25:58.140 --> 26:02.000 And then I talked it over with Chris Hanson, the other cryptos group co-moderator, 26:02.000 --> 26:04.080 and I said, well, it's Da Vinci Code. 26:04.220 --> 26:06.480 We have a lot of Da Vinci Code people in the cryptos group. 26:06.560 --> 26:09.640 How about we put together a task force to see if we can crack this code? 26:10.080 --> 26:13.700 And we were working out, full out on this thing for about a day. 26:13.840 --> 26:16.220 I mean, it was us in the group. 26:16.340 --> 26:17.640 It was the London legal community. 26:17.820 --> 26:19.980 It was Internet discussions all over the place. 26:19.980 --> 26:23.300 Wikipedia articles were sprouting like mushrooms about this code. 26:24.320 --> 26:25.840 And we did crack it. 26:25.920 --> 26:27.420 We were not the first to crack it. 26:27.420 --> 26:33.940 The first man to crack it was a London attorney named Dan Tench who had actually gotten a lot of help from the judge. 26:34.640 --> 26:38.960 But that got a lot of media attention, and then the reporters were calling me and asking me for more information. 26:39.220 --> 26:45.660 And that was actually my first time on national news programs. 26:45.740 --> 26:48.920 I'd been mentioned, like, on CNN before, but I hadn't actually been on them. 26:48.920 --> 26:53.140 And as part of that story, I was actually on MSNBC with Olbermann. 26:53.800 --> 27:01.920 One of his correspondents called me up, and they had me go to a local PBS television studio. 27:02.400 --> 27:08.400 And then they set that up as a feed to MSNBC, and then they recorded a segment and then displayed it later that evening. 27:08.400 --> 27:15.320 And the code, since your listeners are probably going, well, what did it say? 27:15.540 --> 27:17.400 Did somebody actually figure it out? 27:17.460 --> 27:23.260 It said Smithy code, and that was a very easy part of the code, and that was based on the judge's name, Justice Peter Smith. 27:23.640 --> 27:29.720 And then it went into a much more difficult system, which was a polyalphabetic system, which was actually very similar to what's used on cryptos. 27:29.960 --> 27:36.780 And that system, when it was decrypted, came out to the message, Jackie Fisher, who are you? Dreadnought. 27:36.780 --> 27:42.120 And what that meant was Jackie Fisher is a naval admiral. 27:42.260 --> 27:47.100 He's, like, the second most famous admiral in British history, the most famous one being Lord Nelson. 27:47.500 --> 27:53.840 And the judge was a huge fan of Jackie Fisher and was actually kind of upset that there's all this attention to Lord Nelson 27:53.840 --> 28:00.160 and not as much attention to Admiral Fisher, who was an admiral around the 1900s. 28:00.160 --> 28:07.840 And so as a way of raising public awareness of this admiral, the judge decided to put a code about him into the legal document. 28:07.960 --> 28:14.100 So Jackie Fisher, he was behind the launch of the first major modern battleships, the Dreadnought. 28:14.140 --> 28:14.960 The Dreadnought, right. 28:15.140 --> 28:24.220 And the first one of which was launched in 1906, and it was launched almost exactly 100 years ago to the day as the Da Vinci Code trial. 28:24.220 --> 28:29.020 So since 2006 was the 100-year anniversary, and the judge was a big fan of Jackie Fisher. 28:29.220 --> 28:34.980 In fact, if you read the judge's who's who biography, it actually says right in his biography that he's a big Jackie Fisher fan. 28:35.340 --> 28:39.580 So he kind of did this as a whole homage to the guy that he's a fanboy for. 28:40.160 --> 28:41.600 Well, I think that's great. 28:41.660 --> 28:43.620 I think that's a great story, and that's an interesting thing. 28:43.680 --> 28:45.480 I wish people would slip that in more often. 28:45.480 --> 28:50.840 I will slip in a few things into my code sometimes when I'm actually writing programs and stuff. 28:50.920 --> 28:57.120 I'll stick some little hidden things into my – or even some little encrypted codes into my comments and stuff like that, 28:57.120 --> 29:00.300 or use them actually as part of the code sometimes if I can get away with it. 29:01.040 --> 29:04.060 But was there any fallout or anything from that? 29:04.160 --> 29:07.980 Because it sounds like a cool idea, but technically that's a legal document. 29:08.140 --> 29:10.280 I mean, I hope he didn't get in any trouble for that. 29:10.280 --> 29:15.400 No, and other judges have done odd things with legal documents. 29:15.980 --> 29:21.100 It's, for example, I think there's some judges that are into sports, 29:21.780 --> 29:27.960 and I think one judge wrote his entire ruling in couplets, in poetry. 29:28.520 --> 29:31.960 And one thing that can be said about the trial ruling is by him putting a code in it, 29:32.120 --> 29:33.920 it actually made a lot of people actually read it. 29:34.620 --> 29:37.240 Well, yeah, that's a very good point because most people probably wouldn't, 29:37.240 --> 29:41.820 and that's going to be kept in public document for history. 29:41.980 --> 29:45.960 I mean, that's going to be able to be researched and looked up for years down the road, 29:45.960 --> 29:51.920 plus the publicity that it's got is going to keep it a little bit more in the public eye, I guess, so to speak. 29:52.300 --> 29:56.040 Yeah, he will have gone down in history as writing one of the odd rulings. 29:56.700 --> 29:58.040 And he will be – 29:58.040 --> 30:00.560 And weird facts of judicial history. This will probably get mentioned. 30:00.560 --> 30:07.860 And probably to his great appreciation, I'm sure, he will be forever tied to the person, 30:07.980 --> 30:11.120 the general that he wanted so closely that he had so much respect for. 30:11.540 --> 30:13.460 To Admiral Fisher, yes. 30:14.500 --> 30:16.700 All right. Well, good stuff. 30:16.800 --> 30:22.840 Now, I did not – I had briefly – I had heard something about Dan Brown in a plagiarism lawsuit. 30:22.960 --> 30:25.560 Now, is this – and you refreshed my memory when you mentioned it. 30:25.560 --> 30:32.820 It's something to do with the fact that – I guess about the plot and the Holy Grail and the whole – 30:32.820 --> 30:37.160 I guess let's not get into too much detail about it on this hacking show, 30:37.260 --> 30:44.520 but something along the lines of the biblical undertones of it and some of the theories or ideas behind it. 30:44.860 --> 30:49.720 Right. And I could go into great detail because I actually just gave a talk about this in Wisconsin, 30:49.900 --> 30:51.180 about the whole Priory of Zion. 30:51.180 --> 30:56.660 Basically, a lot of the controversy around the Da Vinci Code, yes, it's a fictional novel, 30:56.800 --> 30:59.580 but at the beginning of the book, he's got this big statement that says, 30:59.880 --> 31:04.880 Fact. The Priory of Zion is a real organization that was founded in 1099. 31:05.240 --> 31:10.620 All discussions in this book of rituals and architecture, everything is based on fact. 31:10.820 --> 31:11.860 Well, it's not. 31:12.140 --> 31:13.800 Right. Yeah. See, that's the problem. 31:13.800 --> 31:17.960 And the Priory of Zion, which Da Vinci Code states is a factual society, 31:18.480 --> 31:23.020 well, Da Vinci Code got its information from this 1982 book, Holy Blood, Holy Grail. 31:23.140 --> 31:28.300 And it's a speculative book. It's not fiction. It presents theories. 31:29.220 --> 31:34.720 But one of the things in the book is they say, well, we're hypothesizing this and we're theorizing that. 31:34.760 --> 31:39.760 But one of the things that we know for a fact is that the Priory of Zion is a factual organization. 31:39.760 --> 31:45.180 Well, the Priory of Zion is not a factual organization. Where did Holy Blood, Holy Grail get its information from? 31:45.540 --> 31:51.360 They got their information from a set of medieval, two sets of medieval documents in France that turned out to be forgeries. 31:51.660 --> 31:58.560 They were created as part of a hoax in the 1950s, starting in 1956 by a man named Pierre Plontard, 31:58.980 --> 32:04.460 who was trying to, it's basically this huge social engineering alternate reality game. 32:04.460 --> 32:11.240 So Plontard, with some of his buddies, and they were members of this group called the Surrealist Movement in France, 32:11.620 --> 32:17.540 they were trying to make a case that Pierre Plontard was descended from French royalty and should therefore be made king of France. 32:17.940 --> 32:22.740 And as part of this, they were planting these alternate reality documents in these different locations. 32:22.740 --> 32:27.220 So they created this big set of documents called Les Dossiers Secrets, the secret documents. 32:27.340 --> 32:29.400 And they planted them in the French National Library. 32:29.400 --> 32:34.800 And then another set of documents, it was really clever how they did this. 32:35.220 --> 32:38.480 There's this tiny little village in the south of France called Rennes-le-Chateau, 32:39.000 --> 32:41.720 and it's got a population of like 150 people. 32:41.920 --> 32:47.260 And there had been rumors in the 1800s about a local priest who had come into a lot of money, 32:47.380 --> 32:50.340 and so there was all kind of speculation about that. 32:50.340 --> 32:56.940 And a guy who bought a hotel in the area, or was trying to launch a hotel in the 1950s, 32:56.940 --> 33:01.900 he decided to build up these rumors, sort of like if you want to get people to come to your hotel, make a ghost story. 33:02.420 --> 33:07.600 Well, he started making these stories about how this priest had found a hidden treasure in the local area. 33:08.140 --> 33:11.900 And then this information got expanded upon by Pierre Plontard, 33:12.280 --> 33:17.440 where he and his buddies, they decided to write a book about the hidden treasure of Rennes-le-Chateau. 33:17.440 --> 33:23.900 And in the book, they said, and here are documents which the priest found in the 1800s. 33:24.240 --> 33:25.720 But these documents were forgeries. 33:26.180 --> 33:27.160 They weren't real documents. 33:27.860 --> 33:30.900 And so they reproduced the documents in this book about the treasure. 33:31.080 --> 33:33.680 And in the documents, they hid coded messages. 33:34.640 --> 33:37.920 And they didn't say what the messages said in the book. 33:38.100 --> 33:40.400 But then someone else came along and read the book and said, 33:40.480 --> 33:42.420 Aha, I found one of the coded messages. 33:42.420 --> 33:52.820 And it said, like, Dagobert II, King Dagobert II, and to Scion, does this treasure belong? 33:52.940 --> 33:53.920 And he is there dead. 33:54.440 --> 33:58.160 Well, one of the guys who found the coded message, his name was Henry Lincoln. 33:58.680 --> 34:02.660 And he had been a writer for some Doctor Who serials in the 1960s. 34:02.660 --> 34:05.120 And so he thinks he's found this secret message. 34:05.300 --> 34:10.460 And so he pitches it to BBC and starts doing a series of documentaries about these secret Scion messages 34:10.460 --> 34:14.000 that are in these medieval documents that are in this book about Rennes-le-Chateau. 34:14.180 --> 34:17.520 But the whole thing was a hoax, again, that was started by Pierre Plontard. 34:17.520 --> 34:19.880 And then Lincoln got together with two guys named Bajan and Lee, 34:20.020 --> 34:23.420 and they wrote the book Holy Blood, Holy Grail, and said, Priory of Scion is real. 34:24.120 --> 34:27.400 And then Da Vinci Code came along, and it went from Holy Blood, Holy Grail, 34:27.460 --> 34:28.860 and said, Priory of Scion is real. 34:29.200 --> 34:30.760 And then things went on from there. 34:31.020 --> 34:32.820 And then, you know, Rod Howard makes a movie. 34:34.160 --> 34:37.160 Well, and speaking of which, let's move into that. 34:37.600 --> 34:39.100 Have you seen the movie, Da Vinci Code? 34:39.640 --> 34:41.260 I have seen it twice, yes. 34:41.500 --> 34:43.240 Oh, you saw it twice? It was that good. 34:43.600 --> 34:46.640 No, but I have to see things twice when I'm going to debunk them. 34:47.080 --> 34:48.060 Oh, okay. 34:48.360 --> 34:51.440 So, well, hey, far be it from me to stand in the way. 34:51.520 --> 34:52.680 Let the debunking begin. 34:53.160 --> 34:54.860 I'll admit, I have not seen the movie, 34:54.980 --> 34:57.240 and I didn't really have too much of a desire, to be honest. 34:58.140 --> 35:01.760 Yeah, the movie, it had very mixed reviews. 35:01.760 --> 35:06.560 I think the Ebert and Roper gave it two thumbs up, 35:07.200 --> 35:11.560 but the Rotten Tomatoes, I think it's running around 20% or 30%, 35:11.560 --> 35:12.780 so mostly rotten. 35:13.640 --> 35:15.760 I found it okay. 35:16.640 --> 35:18.120 I found it disappointing. 35:18.740 --> 35:21.480 It follows the book very closely in some places, 35:21.620 --> 35:22.940 not very closely in others. 35:23.420 --> 35:26.620 I found the movie a little too defensive for my taste. 35:26.760 --> 35:30.440 There were some dialogue scenes that kind of dragged on and on, 35:30.740 --> 35:33.880 where it seemed that it wasn't the characters actually discussing something. 35:33.880 --> 35:39.420 This was Ron Howard making the characters discuss things to argue against the people 35:39.420 --> 35:41.940 that were opposed to the movie. 35:42.660 --> 35:42.980 Right. 35:43.080 --> 35:45.740 And it just didn't gel together. 35:45.860 --> 35:49.020 The things that were supposed to be big emotional scenes didn't come across. 35:49.020 --> 35:52.380 Well, that was going to be one of my worries was that, you know, 35:52.420 --> 35:56.960 by the time this movie came out, there was a lot of drama, I guess, 35:57.020 --> 35:59.040 and politics and all that stuff mixed into it, 35:59.080 --> 36:00.860 and I just thought to myself, 36:00.940 --> 36:04.680 I know they're going to end up putting little jabs in there 36:04.680 --> 36:08.540 trying to claim this and, you know, jabs against the attacks 36:08.540 --> 36:10.740 and people that are making these claims and whatever 36:10.740 --> 36:12.460 because they're making it into a big, 36:13.280 --> 36:15.800 well, anyway, we won't go there again on a tech show, 36:15.920 --> 36:17.280 but, yeah, I was worried they would do that, 36:17.320 --> 36:19.340 so it's kind of a shame to hear that that's what they did. 36:19.740 --> 36:21.320 Now, what about Tom Hanks? 36:21.380 --> 36:23.820 Was he good for the character or? 36:24.380 --> 36:25.940 I thought he did fine. 36:26.940 --> 36:29.880 Audrey Toto, who played Sophie Neveux, 36:30.040 --> 36:31.080 I was disappointed. 36:31.420 --> 36:33.160 I'm actually a fan of hers, 36:33.220 --> 36:34.540 especially from the movie Amelie, 36:34.640 --> 36:36.300 which I just loved. 36:36.400 --> 36:37.640 I thought that was an amazing movie, 36:37.640 --> 36:40.880 but I thought her performance in Da Vinci Code was kind of wooden, 36:41.200 --> 36:42.860 and I didn't much care for it. 36:43.180 --> 36:45.940 A couple interesting trivia things for the movie, 36:46.140 --> 36:47.240 for those who like such things, 36:47.380 --> 36:49.440 Dan Brown can be seen in the movie, 36:49.940 --> 36:51.800 in the early book signing scene. 36:51.920 --> 36:56.500 He's in the background near Tom Hanks in at least one shot, 36:56.600 --> 36:58.300 and I believe his wife is there with him. 36:58.960 --> 37:01.380 Also, Dan Brown, before he was an author, 37:01.560 --> 37:02.980 was actually a songwriter. 37:03.180 --> 37:04.760 He's actually got four CDs out. 37:05.380 --> 37:05.780 Wow. 37:05.780 --> 37:09.480 And one of his songs is actually part of the movie soundtrack. 37:09.760 --> 37:11.320 So if you stay and you read the credits, 37:12.020 --> 37:16.000 it says that one of the songs was written and performed by Dan Brown. 37:16.580 --> 37:16.840 Hmm. 37:17.380 --> 37:17.580 Yeah. 37:17.720 --> 37:19.240 I'm a big fan of reading credits. 37:19.420 --> 37:21.040 Do you watch the show Lost at all? 37:21.200 --> 37:22.100 Are you a fan of Lost? 37:22.500 --> 37:22.760 Funny. 37:22.880 --> 37:23.780 Actually, let's... 37:23.780 --> 37:25.380 Yes, but let's hold off on that, 37:25.460 --> 37:27.400 because I was going to bring that up, 37:28.360 --> 37:31.400 and actually our whole separate segment coming up later on, 37:31.460 --> 37:32.700 on Wikipedia stuff. 37:33.160 --> 37:33.440 Okay. 37:33.440 --> 37:36.720 Um, but speaking of reality shows, if I may... 37:36.720 --> 37:37.000 Okay. 37:37.080 --> 37:38.140 ...since you've opened the door, 37:38.280 --> 37:41.180 and this is a little bit more on topic with the cryptography, 37:41.320 --> 37:43.660 there is a new show that is obviously, 37:44.300 --> 37:46.960 obviously designed and released with perfect timing 37:46.960 --> 37:48.380 to coincide with the movie, 37:49.040 --> 37:50.340 called Treasure Hunters. 37:50.660 --> 37:50.940 Uh-huh. 37:51.080 --> 37:53.120 Or, as it was called the first time, 37:53.740 --> 37:55.980 uh, uh, what is that other show? 37:56.060 --> 37:57.200 It's a copy of, um... 37:57.200 --> 37:57.800 Amazing Race. 37:57.820 --> 37:58.620 Amazing Race. 37:58.680 --> 38:00.120 It's the same damn show. 38:00.320 --> 38:00.620 Yeah. 38:00.620 --> 38:01.360 Oh, come on! 38:01.360 --> 38:02.940 It's an obvious Amazing Race ripoff. 38:03.060 --> 38:04.320 Yeah, that's all it is. 38:04.380 --> 38:06.340 Which, I like the Amazing Race, don't get me wrong. 38:06.440 --> 38:08.360 Well, sometimes, depending on... 38:08.360 --> 38:08.500 Yeah. 38:09.000 --> 38:10.220 I love Amazing Race. 38:10.280 --> 38:11.260 It's one of my favorite shows. 38:11.340 --> 38:11.560 Yeah. 38:11.820 --> 38:12.520 I like that. 38:13.320 --> 38:14.200 The edit... 38:14.200 --> 38:16.220 The more recent editing tends to bother me. 38:16.260 --> 38:17.040 I don't like... 38:17.040 --> 38:19.980 I don't like some of the changes they've made in the show format. 38:19.980 --> 38:24.860 Yeah, well, like, one of the things is they purposely will cut back and forth to teams. 38:25.440 --> 38:27.600 Like, they could be two hours ahead of another team, 38:27.660 --> 38:30.760 but they purposely make it look like they're right neck and neck. 38:31.160 --> 38:32.040 I hate that. 38:32.180 --> 38:32.560 I absolutely hate that. 38:32.560 --> 38:33.860 It's just to increase the drama. 38:34.000 --> 38:35.180 We all know it's the drama. 38:35.280 --> 38:38.180 They want it to make it look like a real race when it's really a blowout. 38:38.300 --> 38:38.900 I mean, yeah. 38:39.840 --> 38:44.220 Yeah, I would rather see the real story of what's going on. 38:44.220 --> 38:49.480 I would rather see time stamps at the bottom of every scene so I know who's where 38:49.480 --> 38:52.780 and how far they are and what time it is. 38:53.040 --> 38:57.260 And when they're solving a puzzle, whether it be on Amazing Race or in Treasure Hunters, 38:57.400 --> 39:00.000 I want to see the process of how they're solving the puzzle. 39:00.200 --> 39:03.140 I don't want to see, oh, they had a puzzle, and oh, they have it solved. 39:03.460 --> 39:05.120 I find that very, very frustrating. 39:05.480 --> 39:05.740 Right. 39:05.840 --> 39:07.400 Well, and that's one of the things... 39:07.400 --> 39:10.460 All right, so Treasure Hunters, it does have a better premise. 39:10.460 --> 39:15.080 Because I expected it to be, first of all, I think how pretentious it is that there's 39:15.080 --> 39:16.820 a team called the Geniuses, but I won't even... 39:16.820 --> 39:17.680 I digress on that. 39:18.120 --> 39:19.660 Bunch of morons, but anyway. 39:19.660 --> 39:22.680 I want to know how they came by that particular title. 39:22.840 --> 39:28.160 Oh, they explained it because they have, between the three of them, they have seven majors and 39:28.160 --> 39:30.120 five minors or something like that. 39:30.860 --> 39:31.440 That's it. 39:31.540 --> 39:32.480 That's their only excuse. 39:32.740 --> 39:33.020 Agreed. 39:33.360 --> 39:33.620 Yeah. 39:34.180 --> 39:35.680 Well, they're... 39:35.680 --> 39:36.600 I don't know if they've gotten them. 39:36.640 --> 39:37.740 I think they're in progress. 39:38.280 --> 39:39.360 That they've declared them. 39:39.360 --> 39:40.260 They haven't even gotten them. 39:40.260 --> 39:42.060 I don't believe, but... 39:42.060 --> 39:43.880 So, someone with a college degree is a genius? 39:44.260 --> 39:45.020 Apparently so. 39:45.100 --> 39:47.820 If you have multiple majors and minors, apparently you're a genius. 39:47.940 --> 39:48.460 I don't know. 39:48.840 --> 39:49.400 Uh-huh. 39:49.620 --> 39:50.260 Yeah, exactly. 39:50.260 --> 39:50.580 Okay. 39:51.000 --> 39:51.400 Exactly. 39:51.640 --> 39:53.440 But the show... 39:53.440 --> 39:58.240 See, the thing is, the show, when I first heard about it, A, again, I knew it was obviously 39:58.240 --> 40:01.740 a rip-off of Da Vinci Code, and I'm like, you know, that could be a horrible thing. 40:01.980 --> 40:02.640 But on the other hand... 40:02.640 --> 40:03.160 Amazing race. 40:03.900 --> 40:07.480 No, well, no, but I mean, I'm sorry, inspired by the Da Vinci Code. 40:07.480 --> 40:07.600 Okay. 40:07.960 --> 40:11.340 And they were obviously doing a treasure hunter and codes and stuff, and on the commercials, 40:11.500 --> 40:12.660 they showed a... 40:12.660 --> 40:18.480 And I know I'm going to mispronounce this, a vinagery, vinagery, what is it? 40:19.320 --> 40:20.520 Vinagery Code or whatever. 40:21.220 --> 40:22.160 Oh, Visionaire. 40:22.460 --> 40:22.860 Visionaire. 40:22.920 --> 40:23.380 There you go. 40:23.500 --> 40:23.540 What? 40:24.080 --> 40:25.160 You know what I mean. 40:25.160 --> 40:30.840 They used one of those in the commercial, and I'm like, oh, this is actually going to 40:30.840 --> 40:31.800 be challenging. 40:32.440 --> 40:34.840 It's actually going to be something where they... 40:34.840 --> 40:38.740 It's not just who can drive the car fastest and run to the flag fastest. 40:38.740 --> 40:40.480 It's going to be something intellectual. 40:41.080 --> 40:43.840 That's what had me excited and interested to watch. 40:44.620 --> 40:46.820 And, boy, those hopes were dashed immediately. 40:47.820 --> 40:52.020 Like, in the very beginning, the first thing they had to do, if you remember, was they got 40:52.020 --> 40:56.700 a message coming in with their instructions, and it was basically a Morse code message being 40:56.700 --> 40:57.780 played over and over again. 40:58.760 --> 41:02.260 Now, they pretty much gave the... 41:02.260 --> 41:06.740 Everybody went and grabbed a Morse code book and looked it up and translated it. 41:07.480 --> 41:11.400 And I was kind of hoping that maybe they would have picked people that might have been 41:11.400 --> 41:12.980 able to figure out the Morse code. 41:12.980 --> 41:17.340 Even if they didn't do it, like, because they knew it, but if they sat there and figured 41:17.340 --> 41:22.520 it out by the series of beeps and dots and dashes and the pauses between them, figure 41:22.520 --> 41:26.760 out which one was most common, use cryptography methods like, you know, the most common would 41:26.760 --> 41:31.620 be, like, the S's and the T and the N and things like that and work backwards, they didn't 41:31.620 --> 41:32.460 do anything like that. 41:32.540 --> 41:33.940 They went and grabbed a Morse code book. 41:34.680 --> 41:36.600 Well, disappointing, but okay, fine. 41:36.700 --> 41:37.860 Go on with that. 41:37.860 --> 41:43.020 Then later on, there was one where they had to come up with a combination to a little 41:43.020 --> 41:44.980 safe or a little box or something like that. 41:45.640 --> 41:46.500 Do you remember that scene? 41:46.860 --> 41:47.080 Yeah. 41:47.400 --> 41:49.600 One person figured it out and the rest copied them. 41:50.280 --> 41:50.620 Right. 41:51.220 --> 41:52.160 Come on. 41:52.220 --> 41:52.980 That's horrible. 41:54.140 --> 41:55.380 There's no fun in that. 41:56.440 --> 41:56.700 Yeah. 41:56.860 --> 41:58.580 Yeah, I wish they would show more of the puzzles. 41:58.800 --> 42:01.960 I mean, I watch all my shows off of TiVo these days. 42:02.060 --> 42:03.620 It's very rare that I watch live television. 42:03.640 --> 42:04.180 Same with me. 42:04.180 --> 42:09.500 And I wish that when they had a puzzle, if they would just show the entire puzzle and 42:09.500 --> 42:13.520 give maybe the audience a chance to work it out for ourselves, I'd actually pause it, 42:13.660 --> 42:15.380 you know, TiVo it, and work it out. 42:15.460 --> 42:19.300 Instead, it kind of goes by, and they sort of give, like, sort of half the information, 42:19.460 --> 42:21.540 and they're like, oh, they've solved it, and then they move on. 42:21.660 --> 42:22.540 And I hate that. 42:22.880 --> 42:23.180 Right. 42:23.280 --> 42:27.860 Well, the only one that I liked was the one at the lighthouse where they climbed up at 42:27.860 --> 42:31.580 the top to look down at the stone patterns and figure out that it's Roman numerals. 42:31.580 --> 42:32.160 The Roman numerals. 42:32.340 --> 42:33.140 That one I liked. 42:33.140 --> 42:34.440 That one I kind of liked. 42:34.620 --> 42:34.940 Even though... 42:34.940 --> 42:36.880 But they never said what the actual combination was. 42:37.400 --> 42:37.900 They didn't? 42:38.800 --> 42:39.160 I... 42:39.160 --> 42:39.760 I don't remember. 42:40.360 --> 42:41.800 Yeah, I saw the number. 42:41.860 --> 42:44.600 They had, like, 53 and 9, and... 42:44.600 --> 42:48.620 But I didn't even know, like, how many wheels were on the different combination locks. 42:48.680 --> 42:52.480 Was it that they had to randomly mix the different numbers, or... 42:52.480 --> 42:54.060 They never explained that. 42:54.300 --> 42:54.660 Right. 42:54.840 --> 42:56.540 No, I didn't even notice that, actually. 42:56.760 --> 43:01.060 And it was also kind of funny that some of them didn't know the Roman numerals. 43:01.060 --> 43:02.900 Yeah, like what was an L. 43:03.060 --> 43:06.420 Yeah, and they had to figure out a lot of those, and some of them were cheating on that as well. 43:06.900 --> 43:10.200 That's what I'm finding more than anything, is there was a lot more cheating going on than 43:10.200 --> 43:10.920 I had expected. 43:11.520 --> 43:15.480 One or two teams figures it out, and everybody else copies or follows along with them. 43:15.480 --> 43:20.420 One thing I like about the show is the whole American history angle. 43:20.660 --> 43:27.540 I like that they're trying to portray that, and that there is some actual knowledge of history. 43:27.780 --> 43:33.340 There's that certain educational aspect about the show, and they're not just totally manufacturing new puzzles. 43:33.800 --> 43:34.220 I agree. 43:34.880 --> 43:36.400 I have some respect for that. 43:36.480 --> 43:36.960 Yeah, I agree. 43:36.960 --> 43:41.660 I like that as well, and that it's ongoing, and that they have to pick up all these different 43:41.660 --> 43:46.000 clues along the way, and if they keep going along that path, and it ends up being that 43:46.000 --> 43:50.360 all this kind of ties together, that will be some salvage, some saving grace at the end 43:50.360 --> 43:51.040 of the whole thing. 43:51.040 --> 43:57.640 One of the other things that I found interesting was in the very beginning, we thought there 43:57.640 --> 44:01.260 were only five teams, or excuse me, they only thought that there were five teams involved, 44:01.340 --> 44:05.260 and they come to find out there were five teams that started in, was it Antarctica, and then 44:05.260 --> 44:09.120 five other teams that started in, I don't remember, Hawaii or something, I don't remember, 44:09.180 --> 44:11.420 some tropical climate, and they all brought them together. 44:11.880 --> 44:13.320 And then they all came face to face. 44:13.340 --> 44:14.380 Yeah, that was a great scene. 44:14.580 --> 44:17.380 The surprise on their faces, I enjoyed that scene. 44:17.480 --> 44:19.360 That was definitely a good scene. 44:19.360 --> 44:23.200 And it gave it a tone, too, of, you never know what to expect, or what's going to be 44:23.200 --> 44:24.560 around the corner, that sort of thing. 44:25.100 --> 44:29.200 I like there's one team on there that's, well, that was on there, I should say, called 44:29.200 --> 44:32.260 the Wild Hanlons, or Wild Hanloons, or something like that. 44:32.440 --> 44:33.060 Yeah, yeah. 44:33.380 --> 44:37.260 Well, these guys, they were taking the game way too seriously. 44:37.820 --> 44:42.320 Now, I wish almost that the game was that serious, because they were doing weird things, 44:42.400 --> 44:48.020 like they would go, they were going to, I think there was one where they went to Mount Rushmore, 44:48.020 --> 44:54.600 and the clue was telling them to look, look for, I don't even remember what it was, quite 44:54.600 --> 44:58.140 honestly, it was to look for something, look, see where you can see two faces, or something 44:58.140 --> 44:58.580 like that. 44:58.880 --> 44:59.080 Right. 44:59.240 --> 45:02.980 These guys are digging through trash cans, they're looking under rocks, they're pulling 45:02.980 --> 45:08.640 bushes apart and stuff, when it was so not that detailed, and not that low level. 45:08.760 --> 45:12.540 It had to do with looking up at the faces from the right angle, the faces on Mount Rushmore. 45:12.540 --> 45:17.560 But these guys are like climbing, looking on the roof, looking at every little piece 45:17.560 --> 45:25.680 of paper on the ground, and digging through trash, like it was a hide and seek game, or 45:25.680 --> 45:26.640 something like that. 45:26.720 --> 45:29.520 It was, I don't know, they just did not seem to get it. 45:30.260 --> 45:34.380 Yeah, it's hard to tell sometimes with these shows and the ways that they edit them, because 45:34.380 --> 45:40.040 they obviously have sometimes days worth of material, and then they'll edit out a lot of 45:40.040 --> 45:42.060 stuff, and we'll only see bits and pieces. 45:42.680 --> 45:46.580 And that's one of the things that I found frustrating about Amazing Race, is that I feel 45:46.580 --> 45:51.580 like when the show first started, and they didn't have the teams doing as many different 45:51.580 --> 45:57.340 things, the show would show more of the process of what the team was doing, what they would 45:57.340 --> 46:01.280 think about a clue, how they would talk about it, what their decision-making process was. 46:01.680 --> 46:06.960 And then as they added in more and more different tasks for the teams to perform, the editing 46:06.960 --> 46:12.620 got choppier and choppier, to the point where you don't always see what the team is thinking. 46:12.800 --> 46:17.140 It'll be like the team will, you know, team, I don't know, Brown family or someone will 46:17.140 --> 46:21.360 be driving along a highway, and then in the next scene it's like, oh, you know, they're 46:21.360 --> 46:23.800 four hours behind everyone else, and here they are coming in late. 46:23.860 --> 46:26.680 And I'm like, wait a minute, why are they four hours behind everyone? 46:26.820 --> 46:28.060 Where did they turn wrong? 46:29.000 --> 46:32.060 I don't want to just see the result of the bad decisions. 46:32.140 --> 46:34.680 I want to see the process of making the bad decisions. 46:34.680 --> 46:38.500 Oh, and actually that is one other good thing I did like, speaking of bad decisions. 46:38.960 --> 46:42.020 They give them some, they throw some red herrings out there. 46:42.780 --> 46:45.780 There was one scene, you know what I'm talking about, where it's the one where they're supposed 46:45.780 --> 46:47.080 to be going to Mount Rushmore. 46:47.400 --> 46:48.080 Right, right. 46:48.080 --> 46:54.080 And the drivers were told, the teams were told that if you tell the driver a destination, 46:54.480 --> 46:56.460 he's only going to take you if you're correct. 46:57.420 --> 47:00.160 And if you tell him something that's not correct, he's not going to take you there. 47:00.160 --> 47:04.900 Well, the truth was, the driver had two, they had set the clue up so that it could mean 47:04.900 --> 47:06.600 two possible different things. 47:06.680 --> 47:08.780 One was right, and one was wrong. 47:09.160 --> 47:12.160 And the driver was told to accept either one of those answers. 47:12.240 --> 47:15.260 So the team thought they were going in the right direction, and the driver was taking them 47:15.260 --> 47:15.480 there. 47:15.700 --> 47:18.100 When it turns out, it was not the right thing at all. 47:18.240 --> 47:20.760 And they ended up being way off course and having to catch up. 47:21.140 --> 47:26.600 Yeah, that's an interesting thing about treasure hunters, is that some of the puzzles are so 47:26.600 --> 47:33.260 hard and so time-consuming that the teams are getting spaced out more by hours, rather 47:33.260 --> 47:37.860 than Amazing Race, where they'll all be really, they do things to force all the teams to be 47:37.860 --> 47:39.680 within just a minute of each other sometimes. 47:39.860 --> 47:40.160 Right. 47:40.560 --> 47:46.000 And I do, some of the puzzles in Treasure Hunter do seem really hard, and the clues are really 47:46.000 --> 47:46.500 obscure. 47:46.940 --> 47:48.280 And I'm just amazed. 47:48.280 --> 47:48.440 But they hand them. 47:48.840 --> 47:49.540 They hand them to them. 47:49.540 --> 47:53.560 They needed to search through this house, and they needed to find a bullet in the house. 47:53.560 --> 47:57.920 And the way they showed it in the show, it's like the teams come in and go, oh, look, here, 47:57.980 --> 47:59.940 we need to rip up these floorboards, and here's a bullet. 48:00.740 --> 48:04.940 It seems to me that if I was just faced with a house, and I needed to find a bullet, I'm 48:04.940 --> 48:07.040 not going to go straight to the hole in the floorboard. 48:07.120 --> 48:10.320 Well, see, now, that's where the Wild Handlings might have excelled in that one, because they 48:10.320 --> 48:14.420 would have been looking under every floorboard, and behind every painting on the wall, and 48:14.420 --> 48:15.300 all that kind of stuff. 48:15.900 --> 48:19.680 But yeah, I thought that was a good one, too, to have to find something obscure like that. 48:19.720 --> 48:22.380 But then there was one, oh, we could talk about this forever. 48:22.380 --> 48:23.800 But let's cut this short. 48:23.980 --> 48:26.120 But it does have some good points to it. 48:26.820 --> 48:30.720 It also, and it's one of the things I didn't like about Amazing Race, and this one I'm not 48:30.720 --> 48:35.260 going to like if they do this, where they, if a team excels and gets ahead, I think they 48:35.260 --> 48:37.400 deserve that, and they should be able to keep some of it anyway. 48:37.520 --> 48:41.880 This bunching them back up and making them even again just for the drama aspect, I don't 48:41.880 --> 48:42.240 like that. 48:42.280 --> 48:42.880 That's not fair. 48:43.240 --> 48:47.340 Like they'll all arrive at a pit stop, and they'll be like four or six hours apart, but 48:47.340 --> 48:51.680 they'll be told, oh, well, tomorrow morning you're all on these boats that are 15 minutes 48:51.680 --> 48:52.100 apart. 48:52.300 --> 48:52.400 Right. 48:52.400 --> 48:55.960 And it's an artificial way of getting them to clump again, and I agree that I find that 48:55.960 --> 48:56.300 annoying. 48:56.460 --> 48:56.680 Yeah. 48:56.780 --> 49:00.760 Or they all race to get somewhere at night, and then they get there and it says, oh, it 49:00.760 --> 49:04.140 doesn't open until 8 a.m., so they all have to sit there and wait together and then run 49:04.140 --> 49:04.280 up. 49:04.280 --> 49:04.420 Yeah. 49:04.420 --> 49:08.520 Yeah, I hate that kind of, that's not, ugh, that part's annoying. 49:10.620 --> 49:14.260 And I wish there was a little bit more, now see, as far as the challenge of it, I want 49:14.260 --> 49:18.480 to, I thought the challenge should be a little bit more, especially for the codes and some 49:18.480 --> 49:19.000 of that stuff. 49:19.920 --> 49:25.200 I found that those stupid little video, first of all, is it obvious they're in bed with 49:25.200 --> 49:26.980 Motorola and Ask.com? 49:27.200 --> 49:29.400 Yeah, the product placement is just annoying. 49:29.600 --> 49:29.620 I agree. 49:29.620 --> 49:30.940 The product placement is horrible. 49:31.120 --> 49:35.260 They're giving laptops to access Ask.com, and they keep using them. 49:35.280 --> 49:37.480 Right, but they're always using Ask.com instead of Google. 49:37.600 --> 49:38.320 That makes me laugh. 49:38.360 --> 49:39.060 Yeah, yeah. 49:39.220 --> 49:43.600 And these Motorola phones that they're all given, and they're all forced to do speakerphone 49:43.600 --> 49:46.420 with them, so that the cameras can pick up the audio, I guess. 49:47.700 --> 49:54.000 Yeah, I wonder, I wonder about the Ask.com, I mean, do they have, are their laptops blocking 49:54.000 --> 49:55.260 Google such that? 49:55.280 --> 49:56.080 I don't know, that'd be interesting. 49:56.200 --> 50:02.060 Or is there maybe some rule that the teams are told, you know, if you're going to go to 50:02.060 --> 50:07.280 a search engine, you must go to Ask.com first, and then you can go to Google and you can do 50:07.280 --> 50:11.300 something else, and we're only going to show Ask.com, or is it that they search on anything 50:11.300 --> 50:15.400 they want, and then maybe they just edit it in the little interstitials, and they say, 50:15.500 --> 50:19.880 oh, they make it look like they typed in Ask.com, but in actuality, they just typed into Google. 50:20.000 --> 50:25.820 Well, if anybody, if any of our listeners out there, for some strange, by chance, weird 50:25.820 --> 50:30.560 reason, work on the inside there and can let us know, I'd be curious to know that as well. 50:30.960 --> 50:36.880 Yeah, because I track hits to my website, and I see where I'm getting traffic from, and 50:36.880 --> 50:44.560 it's Google, Google, Google, Google. I get some stuff from Yahoo search, I get some things 50:44.560 --> 50:49.540 from my search my way, and I'm not getting anything from Ask.com. 50:49.880 --> 50:54.860 Yeah, yeah. And well, maybe that's why Ask is doing this, this is their publicity push, 50:54.880 --> 51:00.800 or whatever. But anyway, the Motorola phones are even more annoying to me, because the complexity 51:00.800 --> 51:05.220 of these puzzles would be, to me, I think they'd be challenging on their own, but that 51:05.220 --> 51:10.620 stupid announcer guy comes on with a video message on the Motorola phone, and basically 51:10.620 --> 51:15.240 gives it to them. He comes out and tells them, hey, here's how many characters are in the 51:15.240 --> 51:19.680 combination, and the combination has to do with the Order of the Presidents, and it's 51:19.680 --> 51:21.720 like you're giving them the answer practically. 51:21.720 --> 51:27.740 And I have to rant, I don't like, and this is really petty on my part, I don't like his 51:27.740 --> 51:34.820 voice. His voice sounds very robotic to me, and unappealing, and I just don't care for 51:34.820 --> 51:34.960 him. 51:35.420 --> 51:43.220 Well, Elonka, here's what we need to do. Teams of three. You, me, and we need to find a third 51:43.220 --> 51:48.380 person, and we're going to submit a team next year. We'll be the hackers. I mean, come on, 51:48.380 --> 51:51.340 now listen, that's good television, right? They would, come on, they'd put a team of 51:51.340 --> 51:55.960 hackers on with it, they'd put a team called the Geniuses, and the Supermodels, or something, 51:56.200 --> 52:00.780 and the, come on, they would, they'd eat that up. Except, here's the thing, we have to get 52:00.780 --> 52:05.040 a person, a third person, or you, maybe, because I am not bungee jumping. 52:05.380 --> 52:07.720 I was about to say, I'm not doing any bungee jumping. 52:08.200 --> 52:12.680 We need somebody, I'm not doing the, okay, listen, if I was guaranteed a win, or if it was 52:12.680 --> 52:17.200 like down to the final thing, and if we bungee jump, we win, I'll do that. But just for the 52:17.200 --> 52:23.660 heck of it, for no reason, no, I'm not doing that. Secondly, I'm not eating any weird shit. 52:23.980 --> 52:25.680 I am not eating any bugs. 52:25.680 --> 52:27.360 Nothing with tentacles going down the throat. 52:27.360 --> 52:32.120 No, no bugs, no old rotten meat, no weird egg. 52:32.140 --> 52:33.120 Lamb brains. 52:33.480 --> 52:38.440 Exactly. So we've got to find somebody willing to do all of that as our partner. 52:38.640 --> 52:42.100 A strong stomach who has no fear of heights. Okay, there's our requirement. 52:42.540 --> 52:45.760 Exactly, exactly. But that would be fun. I would love to do that. 52:45.760 --> 52:48.680 Yeah. I agree. I agree. I'd enjoy that, too. 52:48.900 --> 52:51.480 Yeah. All right. Well, put that on our list of things to do. 52:52.240 --> 52:55.300 Yeah, like, we'll get that. We'll make that happen. Hey, you never know. 52:56.660 --> 53:01.220 We'll make sure we all wear our bin rev shirts. Actually, did you notice that some of the 53:01.220 --> 53:04.480 people had ask.com shirts on, too, as well? They obviously gave them shirts. 53:05.120 --> 53:06.320 No, I didn't see that. 53:06.320 --> 53:12.240 Oh, yeah. Product placement's there, buddy. Big time. All right. Well, we've got about, 53:12.300 --> 53:19.080 oh, 15, 20 minutes left to go. And there's another topic, kind of, let's get off the cryptography 53:19.080 --> 53:22.880 thing. See, I don't want to, I feel like every time you come on here, that's all we ever talk 53:22.880 --> 53:28.020 about is cryptos, cryptos, cryptos, and the same thing over. And I don't want people to 53:28.020 --> 53:32.620 pigeonhole you like, that's all that Alanka knows. We have a lot of great conversations, 53:32.740 --> 53:37.740 some of them about TV shows or whatever else. So one of the other things that I know that 53:37.740 --> 53:43.760 you're interested in recently, and for a while now, but particularly recently, is a site that 53:43.760 --> 53:50.000 I do enjoy, generally, for looking stuff up, and that's Wikipedia. However, it's pretty 53:50.000 --> 53:51.640 much the soap opera of the internet. 53:53.040 --> 53:53.680 One of them. 53:54.080 --> 54:01.580 Well, yes, one of them. What is, what's a story with Wikipedia? I mean, what is that site 54:01.580 --> 54:05.660 becoming? What is that site turned in? Is it, first of all, let me ask you a blunt question, 54:05.840 --> 54:09.360 straight, honest, to the point, put you on the spot. Hopefully you won't get hate mail. 54:09.360 --> 54:14.140 Now, I don't know what your answer will be, but is Wikipedia a reliable source of information? 54:16.240 --> 54:22.080 Well, if you want a yes or no answer, I'm going to say no. Anyone who uses Wikipedia as 54:22.080 --> 54:29.180 their primary source needs to have their head examined. All right, flat out. Wikipedia should 54:29.180 --> 54:37.420 not be used as a sole source. But Wikipedia, I still think, is a wonderful resource for people 54:37.420 --> 54:44.460 who want to get a quick overview of a subject or want to find other places to get real sources. 54:45.660 --> 54:52.460 And often it's a good source for kind of obscure bits of information. For example, I love Wikipedia. 54:52.720 --> 54:57.020 I love Wikipedia. I've been spending a lot of time on there. I've written over 100 articles 54:57.020 --> 55:05.520 on Wikipedia. I've accomplished over 5,000 edits on Wikipedia. And it's almost like an addictive 55:05.520 --> 55:09.980 property, almost like a multiplayer game, how much I'm enjoying it. There's even like battles 55:09.980 --> 55:15.740 as we fight against vandals. And there's the politics and the cliques and guilds and the 55:15.740 --> 55:22.200 debates about different parts of the service. But I think it's an amazing and ambitious project. 55:22.980 --> 55:30.280 It's growing fast. There's over 1.2 million articles at this point. And Wikipedia, I think, 55:30.280 --> 55:36.680 has taken a lot of heat for some things that I don't think it deserves. I think that some 55:36.680 --> 55:41.640 people, when they see Wikipedia, they make an assumption that it is supposed to be like 55:41.640 --> 55:46.920 an encyclopedia, meaning that it's all carefully reviewed by academics before anything goes on 55:46.920 --> 55:53.340 a web page. And that's not what it is. It is a groupware project by thousands of volunteers 55:53.340 --> 55:58.120 from all over the world. Many of those volunteers have very different opinions about different 55:58.120 --> 56:05.120 subjects. And any article that you look at at Wikipedia is probably in a state of flux. It's 56:05.120 --> 56:10.220 very rare to find any article on Wikipedia that it's just there and it hasn't been touched for 56:10.220 --> 56:16.260 months. I mean, it happens. But I think that it's the exception rather than the rule. You can go to 56:16.260 --> 56:20.660 any article on Wikipedia and you can click on the history tab at the top. And you will see the most 56:20.660 --> 56:25.000 recent times that people have been changing it. And every article is getting changed pretty much 56:25.000 --> 56:30.740 constantly. And some articles, because you get these different opinions from different editors 56:30.740 --> 56:36.080 coming in, and there will be like edit wars that will be going on in an article, especially 56:36.080 --> 56:43.380 anything that involves nationalism. We're shifting borders. There's flame wars going on right now 56:43.380 --> 56:47.880 about some things to do with Eastern Europe or the country of the Ukraine. And some people think, 56:48.000 --> 56:52.400 well, Ukraine, what does Ukrainian mean? Well, it could mean this or it could mean that. And then 56:52.400 --> 56:56.900 the Russian editors are coming in and saying one thing, and the Polish editors are coming in and 56:56.900 --> 57:02.220 saying something different. Or some of the medieval Polish monarchs. That's another fun thing where 57:02.220 --> 57:06.340 there have been some edit wars going on. Because some of these monarchs had different names in every 57:06.340 --> 57:10.660 single country. They were a monarch of Hungary. They were a monarch of Poland. They were a monarch of 57:10.660 --> 57:14.500 Lithuania. And in each one of these countries, they had a different name. It had a different number. 57:14.500 --> 57:20.080 So they might be like Vladislav's five in one country, and Vladislav's two in another country, 57:20.220 --> 57:25.120 and Laszlo one. So when it comes to titling the Wikipedia article, what do you call it? You get 57:25.120 --> 57:30.900 these massive flame wars going on. Yeah. And like what the things should be called. And we see we see 57:30.900 --> 57:36.200 flame wars that are personal attacks on people, or flame wars that are like distro wars of what's the 57:36.200 --> 57:44.320 best Linux distro, or how much Windows sucks. And they're arguing about these medieval, it's just such an 57:44.320 --> 57:49.360 odd thing to imagine a flame war turning into a flame war, isn't it? 57:49.700 --> 57:55.880 Oh, but there's so much passion that's going into it. And to Wikipedia's credit, I think it has some 57:55.880 --> 58:01.500 fundamentally good policies. There's a lot of guidelines, which are like suggested guidelines, but there's also 58:01.500 --> 58:06.900 hardcore policies. There's a few of them. And one of the policies on Wikipedia is something called 58:06.900 --> 58:12.560 verifiability, which not everyone knows, and not everyone pays attention to, but if someone violates it, 58:12.560 --> 58:18.360 that an article is changed. Verifiability means that nothing should ever be added to a Wikipedia 58:18.360 --> 58:24.760 article unless it can be verified in and outside its source. Which means that someone can't just come in 58:24.760 --> 58:29.080 and say, hey, I was walking down the street and I saw this building and... Nobody does that. 58:29.500 --> 58:36.080 Yeah. And it was found, I know that it was founded in 1891, so I'm going to add this to the article. 58:36.580 --> 58:41.640 Pretty much any other editor can come along and say, okay, you say the building was founded in 1891, 58:41.640 --> 58:46.460 and if no one can prove it, then they can remove that information from the article, which I think is 58:46.460 --> 58:51.180 a good policy where there's controversial information. And especially when you're dealing 58:51.180 --> 58:56.660 with biographies, and as you said, there are people who will go in and put slam information 58:56.660 --> 59:02.440 and criticize people. And Wikipedia has good policies, especially about what they call 59:02.440 --> 59:07.480 biographies of living people, saying if you're going to put bad information about anyone into a 59:07.480 --> 59:11.800 Wikipedia article. You have to point to a source. You can't just go in and say Madonna 59:11.800 --> 59:19.240 is, you know, is a skank. But if BBC News said Madonna is a skank, then you can put it into 59:19.240 --> 59:22.780 the Wikipedia article. Because it will say, according to BBC News, Madonna is a skank. 59:23.560 --> 59:29.460 But then people would argue that BBC News is not credible and therefore shouldn't be put in there. 59:29.460 --> 59:36.460 So we're talking about what is the standard by which information can go into a Wikipedia article. 59:36.920 --> 59:42.360 And so we have the policy of verifiability. We also have the policy of no original research, 59:42.480 --> 59:46.340 which means that if someone is, you know, doing scientific research in their own lab, 59:46.360 --> 59:51.000 and they may have something factual where they've said, oh, we've discovered anti-gravity, okay? 59:51.240 --> 59:56.400 Well, they can't go into Wikipedia and say we've discovered it and make the anti-gravity section 59:56.400 --> 01:00:00.000 of the article say, well, here's what we've discovered in our laboratory. Because that's 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:05.220 against Wikipedia policy as well. Because you cannot use Wikipedia to publish original theories. 01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:09.740 If you want to get the information out there, publish it somewhere else first. And then you 01:00:09.740 --> 01:00:13.680 have the outside source. And then you can create the Wikipedia article and point to the outside 01:00:13.680 --> 01:00:15.980 source. And I think that that's a wise policy as well. 01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:22.880 Yeah. The thing about Wikipedia that bugs me is the same thing that, well, bugs me about every 01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:28.300 site on the global interweb. And that's people can't separate their personal feelings from 01:00:28.300 --> 01:00:34.560 things. And I mean, yeah, again, like you said earlier, anybody thinking that this is like 01:00:34.560 --> 01:00:39.400 a reliable, 100% credible source of information needs to have their head checked. But it would 01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:45.240 be nice to know that people are trying, that have good intentions, that are well intended to 01:00:45.240 --> 01:00:50.180 be putting that information. And what I have found, unfortunately, is that I'm finding a lot 01:00:50.180 --> 01:00:54.960 of people go in and edit, because they simply, well, and I'll use me for an example. I have 01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:59.720 a Wikipedia entry that someone put out there a long time back. And I go in there, and I 01:00:59.720 --> 01:01:06.300 just am being insulted, and just attacked for no reason. And it's like, okay, you can attack 01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:12.840 me and not like me, but why did you edit out and change and put false information in about 01:01:12.840 --> 01:01:18.480 me, when it's just because of that reason? I mean, there's no accountability, unfortunately. 01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:27.040 Well, accountability, no. But I think the Wikipedia policy on verifiability can be the protective 01:01:27.040 --> 01:01:31.900 umbrella in that case. If someone's adding false information, you have every right to 01:01:31.900 --> 01:01:38.580 remove it from the article. And the issue of people's own biographies is a very, very touchy 01:01:38.580 --> 01:01:43.660 thing. And there's some policies there and guidelines on what's called autobiographical 01:01:43.660 --> 01:01:50.080 edits. Because unfortunately, a lot of people, and this is not about you at all, but many 01:01:50.080 --> 01:01:55.160 people are looking at Wikipedia as an advertising vehicle. I mean, as you know, spam is everywhere 01:01:55.160 --> 01:02:00.660 on the Internet. And so many, many people are going to Wikipedia, and they're creating, can 01:02:00.660 --> 01:02:05.540 I say, quote, articles, unquote, about their company, about their product, about themselves. 01:02:05.540 --> 01:02:09.740 Magicians are particularly bad about that, because they'll go in and they'll create a 01:02:09.740 --> 01:02:16.240 biography of themselves and say, ah, yes, you know, this magician Merlin, you know, Merlin 01:02:16.240 --> 01:02:21.840 Doodad is the most famous magician in the world, and he's the winner of the defabled golden 01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.920 turban of Bangalore. Well, first of all, he's not the most famous magician in the world. 01:02:26.020 --> 01:02:30.240 No one's ever heard of this guy. There's no such golden turban award. But you see these 01:02:30.240 --> 01:02:34.920 articles sprouting up around Wikipedia all over the place. And so there's these teams 01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:42.300 of accuracy checkers that are regularly sweeping Wikipedia looking for this and deleting articles 01:02:42.300 --> 01:02:49.220 or removing this information or demanding that people point to outside references. And the 01:02:49.220 --> 01:02:55.480 case that Wikipedia allows anonymous editors, which is a controversial thing, and this ties 01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:58.880 back to what you were saying about people will just go in and they'll just add crap to an 01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:04.980 article. It happens all over Wikipedia, especially with really high profile things like go to 01:03:04.980 --> 01:03:09.600 the George Bush article, go to the Dan Brown article, or go to the Da Vinci Code article. 01:03:10.420 --> 01:03:15.540 And people will be vandalizing these articles on a regular basis, sometimes every few minutes. 01:03:16.180 --> 01:03:22.580 But overall, the community works because they check these articles and if vandalism goes, it's 01:03:22.580 --> 01:03:27.800 sort of like graffiti. Someone will come in and they'll spray paint a swear word onto a wall 01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:32.900 somewhere. But then the responsible citizens will come along and go, oh, graffiti, they'll 01:03:32.900 --> 01:03:39.540 wash it off and then move on. Life goes on. And it can take some, it takes some fortitude 01:03:39.540 --> 01:03:43.420 to deal with some of that. Because sometimes, especially an article about yourself, and you 01:03:43.420 --> 01:03:46.540 see, oh my God, someone came in and said something bad about me. 01:03:46.740 --> 01:03:50.640 I think they said I was a shitbag, I think, on one of them one time or something like that. 01:03:50.640 --> 01:03:56.600 Right. And I know it's hard to say don't take it personally. There's this book that someone 01:03:56.600 --> 01:04:02.380 just recommended to me called The Four Agreements, which overall I see is a bunch of new age crap. 01:04:02.540 --> 01:04:08.080 I mean, the guy who wrote this book believes in Atlantis and he's not someone that I would 01:04:08.080 --> 01:04:12.660 call a verifiable source. But there's a few good points in the book. And one of the points 01:04:12.660 --> 01:04:17.540 that is said in the book is that you have to realize that everyone walking around the world 01:04:17.540 --> 01:04:24.080 is living in their own dream. And if someone says something to you, it doesn't necessarily 01:04:24.080 --> 01:04:28.260 have anything to do with you. It has to do with them and their dream, how they're perceiving 01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:32.740 the world. And if they're calling someone a shitbag, that's them. That says more bad things 01:04:32.740 --> 01:04:37.660 about them for saying it than it says anything about you who they said it to. And obviously 01:04:37.660 --> 01:04:42.500 it doesn't deserve that kind of a comment. But it's hard to not take those things personally. 01:04:42.620 --> 01:04:42.980 I agree. 01:04:42.980 --> 01:04:49.520 Yeah. And it's the lack of support or people to then follow up and go, no, he's not a 01:04:49.520 --> 01:04:53.480 shitbag, you're a shitbag. Or that was uncalled for. Anything like that. That's the part that 01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:58.960 disappoints me. It shouldn't be honestly such a... I know another controversial one I think 01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:03.800 is creationism. Isn't that another one that's a known controversial subject? 01:05:04.260 --> 01:05:07.480 Oh, there is. I mean, you can get people going to the Earth article and wanting to put the 01:05:07.480 --> 01:05:12.400 Flat Earth Society comments in it. Yeah, there's stuff all over. 1.2 million articles. 01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:16.940 You can find as many flame wars as you want. Yeah. Well, I mean, can't... 01:05:16.940 --> 01:05:23.820 And actually, I'll phrase this as a should. Should Wikipedia have a policy or should the 01:05:23.820 --> 01:05:31.240 way Wikipedia entries be listed is to say some people think creationism is this, some other 01:05:31.240 --> 01:05:35.360 people believe that creationism is completely this. Right. 01:05:35.540 --> 01:05:38.980 And show both sides. And people can't seem to even accept that. 01:05:38.980 --> 01:05:43.100 References. You can't just say some people. You have to say, according to the following 01:05:43.100 --> 01:05:44.460 scholars. Oh, sure. 01:05:44.740 --> 01:05:45.240 Right, right. 01:05:46.340 --> 01:05:50.900 Why is that so hard? People don't even seem to be happy to compromise with something like 01:05:50.900 --> 01:05:51.360 that. 01:05:51.800 --> 01:05:58.460 Well, okay. Some people are reasonable and will compromise. And some people will be unreasonable 01:05:58.460 --> 01:06:03.220 and will not want to compromise. But my belief, because I'm a huge supporter of Wikipedia, 01:06:03.220 --> 01:06:08.160 I believe in the project. I believe in the concept. I think that overall, the reasonable 01:06:08.160 --> 01:06:13.460 people will win out over the unreasonable people. But I think it is unreasonable to assume 01:06:13.460 --> 01:06:15.260 that everyone in the world can be reasonable. 01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:21.060 Yeah. And don't get me wrong. I completely support it and I agree with it. I think it's 01:06:21.060 --> 01:06:25.620 a great resource as well. I just wish it didn't take so damn long for this stuff to cycle 01:06:25.620 --> 01:06:29.700 out. For the flame wars to go through and for the right thing to finally eventually happen 01:06:29.700 --> 01:06:34.360 after going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. It just takes too damn 01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:34.740 long. 01:06:35.780 --> 01:06:43.620 Jeez. And I know Jason Scott was also big into Wikipedia and had some interesting comments 01:06:43.620 --> 01:06:48.440 and I think he even presented on the failure of Wikipedia, I think is what it was called 01:06:48.440 --> 01:06:51.980 or something like that. I did not see it, so I don't want to speak to what he might have 01:06:51.980 --> 01:06:54.520 said about it. But I know he's interested in it as well. 01:06:54.520 --> 01:07:00.480 I went to his talk and it was very entertaining. And one of the quotes that he said, which 01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:06.140 I really enjoyed, was he referred to Wikipedia as the Katamari Damacy of the internet. Just 01:07:06.140 --> 01:07:08.220 kind of rolling along, collecting everything. 01:07:08.620 --> 01:07:15.340 Yeah. Well, and another good point that he made, or yeah, a good definition or whatever, 01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:23.580 was he pointed out that one of the big sources, I guess, of flame wars or one of the big conundrums 01:07:23.580 --> 01:07:29.320 was the two different factions, two different thought processes, the inclusionists versus 01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:30.440 the exclusionists. 01:07:30.740 --> 01:07:31.020 Yes. 01:07:31.100 --> 01:07:35.100 Those people who think that you should make these entries as large and all-encompassing 01:07:35.100 --> 01:07:40.740 as you can versus the ones that think you should only include those things that are 01:07:40.740 --> 01:07:44.900 very precise and that only fit into criteria and certain things should not be allowed and 01:07:44.900 --> 01:07:49.020 should be kept minimalized and something along those lines. 01:07:49.020 --> 01:07:53.240 Well, it has to do with whether or not an actual article should exist. For example, right 01:07:53.240 --> 01:07:58.540 now there's a debate about athletes and how many athletes are deserving of having their 01:07:58.540 --> 01:08:02.180 own article on Wikipedia. And some people say that someone should only have an article 01:08:02.180 --> 01:08:07.600 if they've won national awards, have received major attention, they've been in the news, 01:08:07.680 --> 01:08:12.340 they've been on TV. And other people say, well, we'd like for there to be an article 01:08:12.340 --> 01:08:16.760 on anyone who's been an athlete anywhere, even if they've only played in like a college 01:08:16.760 --> 01:08:23.860 sports game. And the final decision is going to be somewhere in between those two extremes. 01:08:24.740 --> 01:08:30.140 So the inclusionists say that anyone who's ever been mentioned in a newspaper ever or any 01:08:30.140 --> 01:08:34.920 musician who's ever released a CD of any kind, regardless of whether or not anyone bought 01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:40.660 it, should have an article. And the exclusionists say, a musician, or I'm sorry, a musician 01:08:40.660 --> 01:08:46.200 should only be on Wikipedia if they've sold, you know, 100,000 albums or something. And 01:08:46.200 --> 01:08:52.060 then you have a community debate to say, well, somewhere in between those two points, those 01:08:52.060 --> 01:08:54.500 two extremes, that's going to be where our guideline is. 01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:59.060 Yeah. And speaking of music, I know there was a play more, there's some things going on 01:08:59.060 --> 01:09:04.400 with the nerdcore, nerdcore hip hop and the nerdcore music entries where some people were 01:09:04.400 --> 01:09:08.000 feeling like they were slighted and should have been listed and they weren't listed. And 01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:13.520 it all comes down to what is, I'm going to make up a word, what is Wikipedia worthy? You 01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:17.820 know, what is worthy? And, you know, quite honestly, I think a lot of it might be, a lot 01:09:17.820 --> 01:09:22.100 of these might be solved. And of course, this is just my opinion and I won't speak for anyone 01:09:22.100 --> 01:09:27.400 else, but don't even have any biographies, period. Don't let any people be in there. Make 01:09:27.400 --> 01:09:34.680 it about science, facts, history, mathematics, studies of science, social sciences, things 01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:37.820 like that. Keep the people out of it as much as you can. 01:09:38.060 --> 01:09:38.460 No. 01:09:38.460 --> 01:09:38.560 No? 01:09:38.680 --> 01:09:44.240 No, no, because science discoveries and facts are all based on people. 01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:49.680 It would be wrong to just cover the concepts and not, in my opinion, it would be wrong to 01:09:49.680 --> 01:09:52.620 just cover the concepts and not to cover the people behind those concepts. 01:09:52.620 --> 01:09:56.780 Well, if they're, and again, I guess it comes back to the drawing the line of notability 01:09:56.780 --> 01:09:58.140 of the whole thing. 01:09:58.320 --> 01:09:58.680 Notability. 01:09:58.860 --> 01:10:04.040 And yeah, like when I say, when I say no people, I mean, there should be, in my opinion, again, 01:10:04.080 --> 01:10:06.660 no net celebrity. There should not be a stank dog entry on there. 01:10:07.260 --> 01:10:08.900 I disagree. I think you're famous. 01:10:09.040 --> 01:10:11.660 Oh, please get out of here. That is so. 01:10:11.660 --> 01:10:14.000 You do this regular weekly radio program. 01:10:14.180 --> 01:10:14.720 So what? 01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:20.580 You've founded Digital Dog Pound. You've founded Binary Revolution. You've written dozens of articles 01:10:20.580 --> 01:10:23.020 for $2,600. You've been on the news. 01:10:23.200 --> 01:10:24.400 All right, I'm going to totally edit this. 01:10:24.400 --> 01:10:25.680 You're famous. You've got to deal with it. 01:10:25.740 --> 01:10:29.580 I'm totally going to edit all that crap out of there. The bottom line is, plenty of people, 01:10:29.640 --> 01:10:33.900 look, plenty of people make podcasts and radio shows and all this kind of stuff. I mean, 01:10:33.940 --> 01:10:37.280 there's tons of them. There was an entry for every one of them. Come on. 01:10:38.160 --> 01:10:38.800 It says... 01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:41.160 No? Wikipedia isn't paper. Why should there be a limit? 01:10:42.420 --> 01:10:45.640 You know, now, actually, that's the best point I've heard all night. You know what? 01:10:45.740 --> 01:10:47.700 It's on there. Wikipedia is not paper. 01:10:47.700 --> 01:10:54.860 That's actually a very good point. I mean, I'm saying that kind of, not sarcastically, 01:10:54.980 --> 01:10:58.940 but bitterly, I guess is the better word. It's just all the fighting and flaming I see. 01:10:59.080 --> 01:11:05.060 I'm just so sick of all the flaming and drama and crap. It's like, can't we all just get 01:11:05.060 --> 01:11:10.740 along? That's all I want. Can't we all just get along? No, seriously, honestly, I do believe 01:11:10.740 --> 01:11:15.760 that more is better. More information is always better. You shouldn't ever, ever, ever filter 01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:20.620 or not have information. So I guess I'd be on the, I guess the inclusion. I would say 01:11:20.620 --> 01:11:25.320 include everything as much as possible that, you know, let's not do this or let's make this 01:11:25.320 --> 01:11:28.840 global rule. And of course, I threw that out there because I know damn good and well that 01:11:28.840 --> 01:11:33.700 that's unreasonable. But, I don't know, it's a dream. I guess it'd be nice if people weren't 01:11:33.700 --> 01:11:38.260 just... The time they spent flaming, they could spend researching and verifying some of these 01:11:38.260 --> 01:11:38.820 things instead. 01:11:38.820 --> 01:11:44.260 Well, I believe that a lot of people attack other things because that prevents them from 01:11:44.260 --> 01:11:50.360 having to look at the problems inside their own home, inside their own heart. And it gives 01:11:50.360 --> 01:11:53.960 them an excuse to avoid their own problems by focusing on other people's problems. 01:11:55.180 --> 01:12:00.180 Well, actually, here's one more example, one more thing I had in my notes about Wikipedia. 01:12:00.740 --> 01:12:03.960 And it goes back to what you talked about earlier. I'm not going to leave this dangling 01:12:03.960 --> 01:12:11.980 plot line here. You asked me about Lost. Okay. So, yes, I'm a big fan of Lost. And on 01:12:11.980 --> 01:12:16.720 Lost, I TiVo everything as well. And I was actually out of town for a couple of weeks for 01:12:16.720 --> 01:12:21.200 work and I came back and caught up on past episodes of Lost. And I was a couple of weeks 01:12:21.200 --> 01:12:25.760 late on the fake commercial, which I'm sure if you... 01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:26.520 Go to Hansel Foundation. 01:12:26.760 --> 01:12:32.520 Exactly. So I didn't catch that until a couple of weeks later on TiVo, or on my DVR anyway. 01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:38.240 And I actually went to... Well, I went out and did some searching for it first and found 01:12:38.240 --> 01:12:43.020 a couple of websites. And then Wikipedia does have some entries and had all the information 01:12:43.020 --> 01:12:46.760 because the numbers that they gave out in the commercial were real. And you heard and 01:12:46.760 --> 01:12:52.140 they were people from the cast that were mentioned on the show. Some of the scientists' names 01:12:52.140 --> 01:12:56.500 were real people from the Hansel Foundation, which were mentioned in the films and stuff from 01:12:56.500 --> 01:13:02.500 the show, which I thought was really, really cool. Until... Until I found out that it was 01:13:02.500 --> 01:13:08.960 all a big freaking advertising campaign for Sprite. Subliminal.com. I was so pissed off 01:13:08.960 --> 01:13:09.360 at that. 01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:15.240 I haven't heard about the Sprite connection. I've heard that Hansel Foundation is a fictional 01:13:15.240 --> 01:13:21.880 corporation that has a commercial during the show. I've also been... I've really enjoyed 01:13:21.880 --> 01:13:26.480 how there's a book out called Bad Twin, which you can go into Borders or Barnes & Noble. You can buy 01:13:26.480 --> 01:13:33.060 this book. It's by Gary Troop. And Gary Troop is a fictional character that's from the show. For 01:13:33.060 --> 01:13:37.840 example, if you go and buy the book in Borders and you flip to the copyright page, it says this book 01:13:37.840 --> 01:13:43.620 is a work of fiction. Even the author is a fictional character. And it all ties into the show Lost and it 01:13:43.620 --> 01:13:49.440 ties into the Hansel Foundation. And if you watch the movie Mission Impossible 3 and you stay 01:13:49.440 --> 01:13:53.580 to watch credits. I love watching credits. In the credits for the movie Mission Impossible 3 01:13:53.580 --> 01:13:57.020 where it's thanking all the different companies, one of the companies that thanks is the Hansel 01:13:57.020 --> 01:13:57.580 Foundation. 01:13:57.720 --> 01:14:02.080 Oh, that's awesome. I didn't know there was a book. That's interesting. But yeah, if you go to 01:14:02.080 --> 01:14:06.720 subliminal.com, there's like a little flash animation in the game and a combination stuff 01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:11.080 you put in. It's simple. But if you look down the bottom right-hand corner of the copyright... 01:14:11.080 --> 01:14:14.800 I'm sorry. No, that's not what it was. If you go look up the Whois information, the site is 01:14:14.800 --> 01:14:19.340 registered to Sprite. And it's subliminal. And when I saw that, you know, 01:14:19.340 --> 01:14:25.080 I think the word subliminal. But L-Y-M-O-N is Lyman, which is what Sprite is pushing in 01:14:25.080 --> 01:14:29.980 their current commercials, that it's lemon-lime. So they're calling it subliminal.com. And 01:14:29.980 --> 01:14:34.960 it's basically they're promoting and they've got Sprite commercials and ads and all this 01:14:34.960 --> 01:14:38.920 kind of stuff mixed into the whole thing. So if it turns out that was all a big advertising 01:14:38.920 --> 01:14:42.900 thing, does that get taken out of Wikipedia later under that what you talked about earlier 01:14:42.900 --> 01:14:43.640 that it's spam? 01:14:45.360 --> 01:14:45.660 No. 01:14:45.900 --> 01:14:46.200 No. 01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:48.640 No. It's... 01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:54.560 I mean, I'm sure that there's an article in Wikipedia on Sprite and on various products. 01:14:55.860 --> 01:15:00.660 To get removed from Wikipedia, it would have to be something like an obvious promotion that 01:15:00.660 --> 01:15:04.760 was using what we call peacock terms. Like, this is the best soft drink ever. That's going 01:15:04.760 --> 01:15:10.060 to get deleted out of Wikipedia really fast. But just say... And this following program was 01:15:10.060 --> 01:15:15.380 sponsored by the following products. Nah, I don't really see that as spam. I see that 01:15:15.380 --> 01:15:16.720 as reasonable disclosure. 01:15:17.300 --> 01:15:21.800 Hmm. Well, it's disappointing as a viewer to find out that that's not actually part of 01:15:21.800 --> 01:15:25.520 the show. I thought it was a little hidden thing to make the show interactive. And instead, 01:15:25.780 --> 01:15:30.640 it turns out to be a little advertising ploy. An interesting one, don't get me wrong, but 01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:34.660 disappointing. Now, that book you talked about, that sounds a little bit more interesting. 01:15:35.160 --> 01:15:39.800 Yeah. In one of the episodes of Lost, where you're seeing the character Sawyer, 01:15:39.800 --> 01:15:44.060 and he's sitting outside his tent, and he's reading a manuscript. And then one of the other 01:15:44.060 --> 01:15:47.600 characters grabs the manuscript and throws it in the fire. The manuscript is for the 01:15:47.600 --> 01:15:52.860 book Bad Twin. Which is the book you can actually buy in Borders. And supposedly, the author 01:15:52.860 --> 01:16:01.100 of the book, Gary Troop, was one of the passengers on Flight 815 in Lost that crashed on the island. 01:16:01.260 --> 01:16:05.540 So when you buy the book in Borders, and it says, Gary Troop, the last book he wrote before 01:16:05.540 --> 01:16:08.880 he was tragically lost in the Flight of Oceanic, Flight 815. 01:16:09.180 --> 01:16:10.680 But how can that be if it burned? 01:16:10.680 --> 01:16:14.820 It's a whole RG alternate reality where it gets really difficult to tell what's real and 01:16:14.820 --> 01:16:17.600 what's fake. But I find that all very, a lot of fun. 01:16:17.800 --> 01:16:21.440 Well, A, how did the book make it back if it got thrown into the fire? 01:16:21.800 --> 01:16:26.600 Oh, because it was a manuscript that was on the plane, but the manuscript had also already 01:16:26.600 --> 01:16:27.560 been delivered to the publisher. 01:16:27.560 --> 01:16:31.940 Oh, and secondly, Dan Brown will take that and call it fact and write a book about it 01:16:31.940 --> 01:16:32.400 in 10 years. 01:16:33.520 --> 01:16:36.680 Oh, oh, that was so uncalled for. 01:16:37.280 --> 01:16:42.520 Oh, that was such, I think we'll wrap up the show on that one. That was pretty rude. 01:16:43.240 --> 01:16:44.660 Sorry, Dan, don't sue me or anything. 01:16:45.980 --> 01:16:50.320 Actually, one little note, and maybe you know this, I wish I should have looked this up before 01:16:50.320 --> 01:16:54.440 the show, but didn't one of the main creators of Wikipedia leave? 01:16:54.440 --> 01:16:59.520 Didn't he like, I guess he didn't like the direction Wikipedia was, or he didn't like 01:16:59.520 --> 01:17:03.500 that it was becoming stagnant and he wanted to go in a new direction. Didn't he start a 01:17:03.500 --> 01:17:09.780 new site that was more encompassing of media and video and audio and graphics and stuff 01:17:09.780 --> 01:17:16.000 as well? More like, instead of being an online encyclopedia, an online dictionary, it was 01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:24.900 more like an online encyclopedia a la Microsoft, what is their, oh, what is Microsoft's encyclopedia 01:17:24.900 --> 01:17:25.280 thing? 01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:27.940 MSN, Encarta? 01:17:28.160 --> 01:17:31.960 Encarta, that's the word I'm looking for. It's more like an Encarta thing except publicly 01:17:31.960 --> 01:17:36.860 created just like Wikipedia. It's a group community project where the group and community creates 01:17:36.860 --> 01:17:37.560 all the content. 01:17:37.560 --> 01:17:44.540 I cannot speak much to that. I know that the main figurehead for Wikipedia is a guy named 01:17:44.540 --> 01:17:52.000 Jimmy Wales, Jimbo Wales. However, he has passed off the reins of it to an actual board. I'm 01:17:52.000 --> 01:17:57.580 not certain here. I think it's called the Wikimedia Foundation that manages it and that it's a 01:17:57.580 --> 01:18:02.180 non-profit. And I'd like to give props to Wikipedia for staying free and not being covered with ads. 01:18:02.460 --> 01:18:04.200 I think that's another good thing about Wikipedia. 01:18:04.200 --> 01:18:08.600 Absolutely. Absolutely. Something that we also agree with and do at binrev.com. We try 01:18:08.600 --> 01:18:13.900 our best not to put them, at least not on binrev.com, that main site with the forums and everything. 01:18:14.040 --> 01:18:18.780 It'll be very easy and I could be very tempted with the number of hits we get, but I do not 01:18:18.780 --> 01:18:21.000 like the ads being placed everywhere. 01:18:21.440 --> 01:18:26.040 Right. And I feel the same way with ilanka.com. I mean, my odometer just rolled over. I've had 01:18:26.040 --> 01:18:31.380 over 2 million page views on my site with everything, with crypto and everything. And I'm proud 01:18:31.380 --> 01:18:36.980 to say that I have been ad free from day one. And some people, oh, you're at 2 million and you 01:18:36.980 --> 01:18:43.520 could do this and you could put an ad here and put an ad there. And no, no, it's not me. And even 01:18:43.520 --> 01:18:48.960 when I put in a web page about my book, I sort of felt bad about that. I didn't want people to think 01:18:48.960 --> 01:18:52.660 that I made my whole website just as a way of promoting my book. So I had this whole little 01:18:52.660 --> 01:18:56.980 apology. Like, well, here's my book and I'm sorry if you think this is an ad, but I think 01:18:56.980 --> 01:19:00.040 some people seem to want to know about it. So here's a link. 01:19:00.400 --> 01:19:03.180 But you had to put up all those new pictures you had taken, too. 01:19:03.740 --> 01:19:04.260 Oh, yeah. 01:19:04.260 --> 01:19:04.620 Oh. 01:19:05.060 --> 01:19:06.760 Professional photography thing done. Yeah. 01:19:06.760 --> 01:19:06.800 Yeah. 01:19:06.800 --> 01:19:11.080 Susie Gorman. She's like the Annie Leberwoods of St. Louis. She did a great job. 01:19:11.080 --> 01:19:19.040 All right. Well, let's wrap up here. Let's see. Do I have any, let's see, any notes for the end 01:19:19.040 --> 01:19:23.680 here? Okay. Well, yes. Again, I'm not going to beat it to death, but this is the last episode of 01:19:23.680 --> 01:19:30.560 the season. That being said, I am really not going to be available until after DEFCON, which is a good 01:19:30.560 --> 01:19:36.400 while away. So consider me unplugged for all the rest of July. This will probably be the last you hear 01:19:36.400 --> 01:19:41.460 of me. Or if you hear something from me next week, whatever we end up doing for that week's time 01:19:41.460 --> 01:19:46.360 slot, it will be pre-recorded and everything. I'm going to be pretty much unavailable for the rest of 01:19:46.360 --> 01:19:51.200 July and the beginning of August. I will be at Hope and at DEFCON, and that's the reason. I'm not 01:19:51.200 --> 01:19:55.620 going to really have access to my computers at home, et cetera, et cetera. I'll be on the road 01:19:55.620 --> 01:19:56.400 traveling. 01:19:56.400 --> 01:19:57.480 I'll be at DEFCON. Cool. 01:19:57.820 --> 01:20:02.280 Yeah, I will be at Hope. I will be at DEFCON. So look for me there. We are going to be presenting at 01:20:02.280 --> 01:20:07.180 Hope, the first episode of season four of the radio show. So that's going to be Friday 01:20:07.180 --> 01:20:11.760 night starting at 11 p.m. So come on after the presentation. We're all going to try to 01:20:11.760 --> 01:20:15.460 meet up there. A bunch of people from the forums are planning to meet after the show, which 01:20:15.460 --> 01:20:18.660 will be around 1230-ish, and we'll kind of probably wing it, walk through the cities 01:20:18.660 --> 01:20:22.220 of New York, raise a little hell, howl at the moon, whatever it is that we're going to 01:20:22.220 --> 01:20:27.160 do. And so I'll be glad to meet up with anybody at either one of the conferences. At DEFCON, 01:20:27.220 --> 01:20:30.720 I'll definitely be free. I'll be wide open, except Elonka and I are going to go out 01:20:30.720 --> 01:20:35.220 and grab a bike at DEFCON. So other than that, and Elonka, obviously, like I said, 01:20:35.280 --> 01:20:36.720 you're going to be at DEFCON as well. 01:20:37.040 --> 01:20:38.120 Oh, yeah. I wouldn't miss it. 01:20:38.280 --> 01:20:41.820 Are you actually going to set up a booth with your book or anything like that? 01:20:42.020 --> 01:20:42.340 No. 01:20:42.340 --> 01:20:47.840 No. I'll bring a few copies. If somebody wants an autograph, I'll have my special pen 01:20:47.840 --> 01:20:50.440 there, but I'm not doing anything spectacular. 01:20:50.820 --> 01:20:54.760 Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, well, and yeah, because they charge so much for booths in these places 01:20:54.760 --> 01:21:00.540 now, but I won't go there. So shout outs. I'll stall Elonka so you can come up with 01:21:00.540 --> 01:21:05.100 your shouts. Again, I want to give shouts out to the crew down in Houston that I met 01:21:05.100 --> 01:21:09.800 a couple weeks ago, especially to Booter, who, you know, met me and met up with these 01:21:09.800 --> 01:21:13.040 guys at Houston. They took good care of me. We went and hung out and grabbed a bite to 01:21:13.040 --> 01:21:17.700 eat and drink, et cetera, et cetera. So that was cool. And looks like I'm going to be spending 01:21:17.700 --> 01:21:22.840 some time down in Houston area for the next few months. So I look forward to meeting up 01:21:22.840 --> 01:21:28.720 with everyone down there again. So my shouts to them and shouts from you, Elonka. 01:21:28.720 --> 01:21:34.380 Okay. Shouts to Monet Friedrich and some other members of the cryptos group that were involved 01:21:34.380 --> 01:21:38.300 with that, that player two, layer two discussion from last year. So that would be Monet Friedrich, 01:21:38.420 --> 01:21:44.980 Paul Kiesel, Mark Siegel, Thorne Contos. Also shouts to a couple of people. My book that's 01:21:44.980 --> 01:21:50.260 out, I have a treasure hunt hidden inside the book, puzzles hidden within the puzzles. And 01:21:50.260 --> 01:21:55.680 the book was released just this spring. And there's two people that have already solved 01:21:55.680 --> 01:21:59.200 the treasure hunt. And so I want to give a shout out to them. That's Bernard Samuels, 01:21:59.200 --> 01:22:04.480 who actually was in Singapore and solved it. And also Daniel Fretwell out of the UK. So 01:22:04.480 --> 01:22:10.060 congratulations to those two. And I will be giving out some prizes to them and the next 01:22:10.060 --> 01:22:14.580 several solvers as well. Probably at least the 10 first solvers are going to get prizes, 01:22:14.720 --> 01:22:16.340 but they definitely get credit for being the first. 01:22:16.340 --> 01:22:23.260 Cool. Cool. Congratulations to them. Our site of the week this week actually comes from 01:22:23.260 --> 01:22:35.100 Fcon, E-P-H-C-O-N from our forums, came up with a site. It's cryptoggle.com. That's C-R-Y-P-T-O-O-G-L-E 01:22:35.100 --> 01:22:40.460 dot com. And Cryptoogle, and I'll just quote from their site because it explains it pretty 01:22:40.460 --> 01:22:45.900 straightforward. Cryptoogle uses Google to secure your documents. The encryption is based 01:22:45.900 --> 01:22:50.880 on Google results. Your key is a query to Google. We collect the results, process them, 01:22:50.940 --> 01:22:56.700 then encrypt with them. Why? Because Google changes. So your encryption changes. So everything 01:22:56.700 --> 01:23:02.020 you type into Cryptoogle is going to disappear permanently in a few months. It's a real world 01:23:02.020 --> 01:23:07.260 implementation. Look at this. Look at how this comes full circle again. It's a real world 01:23:07.260 --> 01:23:15.280 implementation of the concepts described in Dan Brown's Digital Fortress. See? I couldn't 01:23:15.280 --> 01:23:19.340 have scripted this show any better. Well, I did kind of script the show because I do write 01:23:19.340 --> 01:23:25.240 these show novels. But anyway, if you have feedback for us of any kind, again, probably won't get 01:23:25.240 --> 01:23:29.800 back to you right away on this particular case, but if you've gotten any feedback on this episode 01:23:29.800 --> 01:23:34.920 or for Elonka or myself or about the whole, all of series three, all of season three of the 01:23:34.920 --> 01:23:39.300 shows. This is the last one. If you have feedback on anything along the way, send it to radio 01:23:39.300 --> 01:23:48.420 at binrev.com. Our closing music tonight is a track called Tech City Fury from Brent Simon. Cool 01:23:48.420 --> 01:23:55.080 track that I stumbled across. And Elonka, thank you so much for being on the show. And I know that we 01:23:55.080 --> 01:24:01.380 could make a five, six hour show with you and I. And it's hard to cut it off sometimes to be able 01:24:01.380 --> 01:24:05.280 to squeeze it into our time slot. But we're going to have to do it more often so that we don't get 01:24:05.280 --> 01:24:11.880 backed up on material like this. So you and I have already discussed another project. So maybe 01:24:11.880 --> 01:24:17.540 we'll make that happen. And I think that'll help to be another outlet. So and along the same lines, 01:24:17.580 --> 01:24:22.420 you know what? I know it's kind of corny and people know I do get corny on the show sometimes. But, 01:24:22.920 --> 01:24:26.520 you know, thanks to everybody for supporting the show. We have been out for three years. 01:24:27.220 --> 01:24:31.660 I do put a lot of time in the show. I do take pride in the show still to this very day, 01:24:31.660 --> 01:24:37.460 as much as the day we started it. I still put a lot of time in it. And I know that we have a lot 01:24:37.460 --> 01:24:40.940 of people listening to the show, some of them that are new, some of them that have been around 01:24:40.940 --> 01:24:45.720 for the whole three years. And I sincerely appreciate everybody listening to it. I totally 01:24:45.720 --> 01:24:50.240 appreciate it and understand you're taking an hour and a half out of every one of your weeks to 01:24:50.240 --> 01:24:55.060 listen to the show. And do not think that it's not appreciated. We absolutely enjoy the feedback we 01:24:55.060 --> 01:25:00.300 get on the show. We enjoy the input. I learn a lot from people that email us corrections or new 01:25:00.300 --> 01:25:05.800 information or show topics or even come on and co-host the show. So thank you to everybody for 01:25:05.800 --> 01:25:12.280 doing that. 156 episodes in the books. They were a blast. So much fun doing them all. So come to 01:25:12.280 --> 01:25:23.520 the Sixth Hope, New York City, July 21st, 2021, 22, 23, somewhere in that range. Whatever that Friday 01:25:23.520 --> 01:25:28.940 is, Friday at 11 o'clock will be the first episode of Season 4 of Binary Revolution Radio. And you will 01:25:28.940 --> 01:25:35.540 hear about the future of the show, whatever that may be. But until then, we will see you next 01:25:35.540 --> 01:25:39.740 season. Same hack time. Same hack channel. 01:26:05.540 --> 01:26:06.540 Bye-bye. 01:26:06.540 --> 01:26:06.720 Hate Day. 01:26:06.840 --> 01:26:09.860 Bye-bye. 01:26:09.860 --> 01:26:10.000 Bye-bye. 01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:14.440 Bye-bye. 01:26:14.540 --> 01:26:17.800 Bye-bye. 01:26:25.040 --> 01:26:26.240 Bye-bye. 01:26:26.280 --> 01:26:31.300 Bye-bye. 01:26:31.300 --> 01:27:01.280 Thank you. 01:27:01.300 --> 01:27:31.280 Thank you. 01:27:31.300 --> 01:28:01.280 Thank you. 01:28:01.300 --> 01:28:31.280 Thank you. 01:28:31.300 --> 01:29:01.280 Thank you. 01:29:01.300 --> 01:29:31.280 Thank you.