WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:08.700 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:09.120 --> 00:14.780 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:14.780 --> 00:15.720 in a fat tone. 00:15.980 --> 00:20.960 In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six foe. 00:21.140 --> 00:25.720 I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable. 00:25.720 --> 00:31.720 On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero. 00:31.940 --> 00:37.620 In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcasts. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle. 00:37.960 --> 00:42.780 Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug. 00:43.100 --> 00:46.800 I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z. 00:47.140 --> 00:51.420 To CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely. 00:51.420 --> 00:55.560 You feel that rattle in your bones when I tell you we just hacked out Jones? 00:55.720 --> 01:00.000 And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:00.220 --> 01:02.780 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:03.220 --> 01:05.800 This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals. 01:06.340 --> 01:10.720 Serial code, source code, ISO, RAM, SIP, SIP. 01:11.580 --> 01:14.520 Welcome everyone to Binary Revolution Radio. 01:14.520 --> 01:19.960 This is episode 159 and this is the DEF CON wrap-up. 01:20.220 --> 01:22.160 It sings how DEF CON was this past weekend. 01:22.160 --> 01:26.060 And that's kind of a tradition on the Binary Revolution Radio. 01:27.060 --> 01:32.280 And today we have a co-host who's been on the show before, Mr. Low-Tech Mystic. 01:32.940 --> 01:38.400 And he is our engineer for the night, because I don't know how to work these computer machines. 01:39.260 --> 01:41.140 And he and I did not go to DEF CON. 01:41.140 --> 01:46.380 So we found the guy that did, and he's the third host of the show, Mr. Verbal. 01:46.620 --> 01:47.160 Say hello. 01:48.100 --> 01:48.660 Hi, Jess. 01:48.660 --> 01:49.260 How's it going? 01:50.100 --> 01:53.400 This is the fourth season of Binary Revolution Radio. 01:54.260 --> 02:00.320 And we're kind of switching things up this season, because no one has time to, per se, record the show every week. 02:00.320 --> 02:06.140 So be prepared to listen to me ramble on and on and on, trying to stall for time. 02:07.800 --> 02:10.840 But anyway, I didn't get to go to DEF CON this year. 02:11.580 --> 02:16.440 And Mr. Low-Tech and I are starting up a little business, and we don't exactly have paychecks. 02:17.320 --> 02:25.900 So to be financially stable enough to get his ass over there this year, he's going to talk about stuff for us today. 02:25.900 --> 02:29.620 And Mr. Verbal, you've been to DEF CON before, right? 02:30.460 --> 02:30.820 Yes. 02:31.280 --> 02:35.440 I was there for the past three years when he was at the Alexis. 02:36.980 --> 02:38.100 And I went last year. 02:39.740 --> 02:41.420 Go ahead. 02:42.200 --> 02:42.820 Oh, yeah. 02:43.740 --> 02:48.520 So as I was saying, this year they moved it to the Riviera, and it's definitely a bigger venue. 02:49.020 --> 02:51.580 And they actually definitely had more people come. 02:51.580 --> 02:55.740 This year I think there was about 6,000 to 7,000 people who showed up. 02:56.620 --> 03:02.840 And they actually ran out of the badges for this year, and they had to start giving people badges for the last year, 03:03.280 --> 03:09.160 like crappy little pieces of cardboard they printed, you know, like whatever they can steal off from. 03:09.720 --> 03:10.440 I don't know. 03:10.720 --> 03:11.640 But it was crazy. 03:11.780 --> 03:12.640 There was people everywhere. 03:14.180 --> 03:15.240 That is awesome. 03:16.320 --> 03:19.820 So I imagine there were some hijinks of people forging badges, right? 03:19.820 --> 03:23.700 I actually didn't see too many of that. 03:24.440 --> 03:27.540 Actually, so let me talk about the badges a little bit. 03:27.660 --> 03:35.000 If you know or saw someone who went, then you'll know that their badge this year has a little circuit on it. 03:35.000 --> 03:41.220 And there are two LEDs who are the eyes for a smiley face. 03:41.840 --> 03:47.860 And on the back there's a button, and if you press it, they would light up. 03:47.860 --> 03:54.480 And then if you press it again and again, there were several different styles of blinking that were involved. 03:54.820 --> 03:58.580 And a lot of people ended up hacking that, and that ended up being a contest. 03:58.740 --> 03:59.560 It was pretty cool. 03:59.560 --> 04:03.920 So I think one guy made his into a blowtorch. 04:04.240 --> 04:07.720 So if you, like, pressed it, then, like, flames would come out. 04:07.900 --> 04:11.200 And some other people did some other very neat things with it, too. 04:13.620 --> 04:14.620 That is awesome. 04:16.720 --> 04:19.860 So you're going to put your badge up on eBay and see if you can sell it to somebody? 04:20.840 --> 04:22.420 No, no, I don't think so. 04:22.700 --> 04:24.300 I'll probably get, like, five bucks for it. 04:24.660 --> 04:29.100 But, no, I actually got into a habit, as with most people, I assume, 04:29.100 --> 04:32.260 of keeping my badges, you know, just as a souvenir. 04:33.420 --> 04:36.780 I think Mr. Low-Tech has a collection of them hanging from the ceiling fans in his room. 04:38.080 --> 04:43.180 Yeah, like, you always see people who go to the cons who, like, wear all the badges they had. 04:43.360 --> 04:46.420 And, you know, their neck has, like, 12 of them. 04:46.540 --> 04:48.760 And, like, they're wearing, like, a shirt from DEF CON 1. 04:48.960 --> 04:51.960 So, you know, I guess it has sentimental value for some people. 04:53.480 --> 04:56.400 We went to Birmingham a few weeks ago. 04:56.860 --> 04:58.520 Or not Birmingham, Huntsville, Alabama. 04:59.100 --> 05:01.080 To visit the people over at Digium. 05:01.880 --> 05:04.820 And in Mark Spencer's house, he has his collection of badges. 05:05.600 --> 05:06.880 And, like, I thought I had a lot. 05:07.960 --> 05:11.880 But this guy doesn't just, you know, he's not going to the little hacker cons. 05:11.960 --> 05:14.700 He's going to the professional hoity-toity cons. 05:15.660 --> 05:18.840 And he has the largest collection of badges I've ever seen. 05:19.680 --> 05:20.480 It's massive. 05:20.480 --> 05:22.800 Does he have a separate room for them? 05:24.260 --> 05:26.700 No, but he doesn't have a separate room for them. 05:26.820 --> 05:30.580 But his house is decorated like a nerd would truly decorate a house. 05:30.740 --> 05:33.260 There's a big clock made of motherboards. 05:33.580 --> 05:35.260 And it's really cool. 05:35.260 --> 05:41.460 So, my wife would make me have a separate room for all my computer stuff as she's done. 05:41.460 --> 05:45.660 But that's another story. 05:46.040 --> 05:48.120 Well, I went to DEF CON last year. 05:48.460 --> 05:53.660 And we had to wait up in the sun and the heat, you know, 30, 40 minutes to go and see and talk. 05:54.020 --> 05:57.800 And that was one of the things they were trying to fix with moving to the Riviera. 05:57.900 --> 05:59.120 How are the lines this year? 05:59.120 --> 06:04.700 Well, actually, so, the lines were pretty good overall. 06:05.420 --> 06:09.560 But in the beginning, so, okay, so it starts at about 10. 06:09.880 --> 06:13.980 And on the first day on Friday, I went down there and I was going to get a badge tonight. 06:14.100 --> 06:16.540 I got there late the night before I was there. 06:19.940 --> 06:25.640 And so, there's a corridor where all the rooms are for the talks. 06:25.640 --> 06:33.480 And then at the end of that corridor is the start of, like, the capture-the-flag area and the registration area and the vendor area. 06:34.100 --> 06:37.360 And that corridor, I got there about 10.30. 06:37.520 --> 06:40.620 And that place was seriously a clusterfuck. 06:40.740 --> 06:47.100 And I was like, oh, my God, it's going to end up being last year all over again, except slightly air-conditioned. 06:47.100 --> 06:55.820 But as it turns out, they had told the fire department or the fire marshals that the cons started at 10. 06:55.880 --> 07:00.900 And they had misheard them and thought 12 or something like that. 07:01.120 --> 07:04.740 So, instead of coming at 9, they came at 11. 07:05.300 --> 07:08.100 So, they had to push the cons back two hours. 07:08.100 --> 07:12.420 And then everyone was just kind of, like, wedged in, like, the main corridor. 07:12.580 --> 07:17.200 People trying to get in and, like, to get their badges and people trying to come out. 07:17.360 --> 07:20.580 Because, like, you know, half the people knew what was going on and half of them didn't. 07:21.720 --> 07:28.940 So, aside from that, though, there are definitely no lines like the one you had to wait for in the tent. 07:29.080 --> 07:29.960 Like, remember that? 07:30.200 --> 07:31.640 It was, like, the third track. 07:31.640 --> 07:34.500 Like, and they barely had AC and you had to wait outside. 07:34.640 --> 07:35.340 There was none of that. 07:35.460 --> 07:38.980 Everything was indoors and it was much, much nicer. 07:39.240 --> 07:43.900 You know, there were actually rooms, like, hang out in the halls and you didn't have to always be moving. 07:44.460 --> 07:50.400 And, actually, this is the first year that I stayed at the hotel where the car was happening. 07:50.920 --> 07:55.500 And, you know, if you're going or thinking about going, definitely try to get a room at the hotel. 07:55.500 --> 07:56.540 It is much easier. 07:56.540 --> 08:02.440 Because the last couple of years, I stayed at, like, the Sahara, which is all the way. 08:02.440 --> 08:03.140 I stayed at the Sahara last year. 08:03.760 --> 08:04.760 Right, right, right. 08:04.920 --> 08:08.320 And, as you know, it's all the way at the other side of the strip. 08:08.700 --> 08:10.260 And I was like, oh, I'll just take the monorail. 08:10.360 --> 08:11.160 It can't be that bad. 08:11.800 --> 08:14.060 Now, granted, you don't have to walk that much. 08:14.380 --> 08:17.900 But, like, you don't want to be outside in Vegas and August at all. 08:18.320 --> 08:23.480 So, you know, if you stay there, then you can just stay inside for the whole day. 08:23.660 --> 08:25.480 And then if you go out at night, it's much better. 08:26.540 --> 08:26.880 Yeah. 08:27.880 --> 08:29.320 Now, how were the rooms there? 08:29.400 --> 08:33.000 I remember last episode they were talking about the rooms at Hotel Pennsylvania. 08:33.220 --> 08:35.240 How were the rooms at this one? 08:36.100 --> 08:37.680 Oh, it's actually not bad. 08:37.680 --> 08:41.540 I mean, the rooms are definitely better than, like, the Sahara. 08:42.240 --> 08:44.020 And it's actually pretty cheap, too. 08:44.120 --> 08:46.160 So, I registered decently early. 08:46.860 --> 08:51.540 And on Friday, the room was, like, you know, like $80. 08:52.020 --> 08:54.400 And then Saturday, no, I'm sorry. 08:54.400 --> 08:55.900 Thursday, the room was, like, $85. 08:56.120 --> 08:58.100 And then Saturday, the room was, like, $92. 08:58.840 --> 09:03.280 So, I mean, you know, it's comparable to any other place that's on the Strip. 09:05.280 --> 09:06.980 Did you go to the BinRev meetup? 09:06.980 --> 09:10.400 Actually, I did not. 09:13.060 --> 09:17.980 So, Upside Down was there, and he went, and he said it was pretty cool. 09:18.260 --> 09:23.700 Like, they just went to the food court because I think we were going to go to the buffet. 09:23.780 --> 09:24.860 I'm not sure what happened to that. 09:24.860 --> 09:35.360 But he said, you know, like, most of the BinRev people came, and they were just kind of, like, sitting in their own, like, tables because it was, like, a food court. 09:35.740 --> 09:40.020 And Stank was trying to, like, go around and, like, get people talking and stuff. 09:40.560 --> 09:44.120 But overall, it was pretty good, I think, is what he said. 09:44.120 --> 09:51.220 And I actually had some other friends there from, like, you know, from real life, and I ended up having dinner with them instead. 09:52.100 --> 09:54.020 But, yeah, I mean, I heard it. 09:54.020 --> 09:54.460 What's real life? 09:55.480 --> 09:55.760 Huh? 09:57.800 --> 09:58.320 What's real life? 09:58.320 --> 09:59.200 Did you see any titties? 10:00.920 --> 10:04.860 You know, the thing you do when you wake up to when you come home. 10:08.120 --> 10:08.700 Good deal. 10:08.780 --> 10:10.100 Well, enough of this idle chit-chat. 10:10.180 --> 10:10.900 How were the talks? 10:10.900 --> 10:12.760 Oh, yeah. 10:12.920 --> 10:15.400 So, actually, there were a bunch of good talks. 10:18.220 --> 10:27.600 And, like, you know, I would look at the schedule, and I would say, like, okay, you know, make a mental list of the talks I want to go to. 10:27.660 --> 10:31.740 And there were usually only about three or four that I was, like, really interested in. 10:32.220 --> 10:35.260 But this year, the quality of talks is definitely much higher. 10:36.260 --> 10:39.800 Actually, I should probably highlight some of the ones I went to. 10:40.900 --> 10:44.680 So, okay, so on Friday, I'm just going to go through it. 10:44.760 --> 10:56.360 On Friday, at the first talk, the Atlas, who was actually the leader of the winning team, the captain of the winning team for Capture the Flag talk, 10:56.360 --> 11:06.040 on how he got into packing, and, you know, like, the stuff that he did when he first, you know, wanted to, like, look at how Alexis works and, like, look at exploits and stuff. 11:06.680 --> 11:16.440 And, you know, he was basically going through the tools he developed and, like, pitfalls that he had and, like, what techniques he used to start exploiting software and just kind of get into it. 11:16.440 --> 11:19.200 So, definitely, that was good. 11:19.680 --> 11:29.740 And then the one after that, I actually stayed in that room for a while, was a talk called Remote Pair Programming and Test-Driven Development Using Open Source. 11:29.740 --> 11:36.120 That, I actually just stayed in there because it was just right after, and I was, like, checking my email or something. 11:36.240 --> 11:49.460 But that ended up being a really good talk, and it was about, you know, using Open Source software such as, like, BNC and, you know, just, like, Skype or whatever they had to do pair programming. 11:49.460 --> 12:00.000 And, like, I guess that's part of the extreme programming and paradigm, you know, and how they would make really good software with two people who were, you know, not physically at the same location. 12:00.540 --> 12:04.980 And, you know, in addition to that, he just kind of landed on about how to write good code. 12:05.080 --> 12:14.420 So, if, you know, you're interested in coding and kind of, like, adopting some new methodologies, maybe, you know, you're not doing things exactly, you know, the best way. 12:14.420 --> 12:20.280 So, I definitely think, like, going through that talk, you know, will be a good thing for you. 12:21.100 --> 12:25.500 And the other one, actually, is this panel they had. 12:25.840 --> 12:27.440 It was called Internet Ward. 12:27.620 --> 12:31.320 And what it was is they had a panel of, I think, about six people. 12:31.940 --> 12:37.840 And there were four feds, Dan Kaminsky, which is who does the Black Ops talk. 12:37.840 --> 12:42.880 And this other guy, Gotti, and I can't pronounce his last name. 12:42.960 --> 12:45.000 He's this big Russian guy. 12:45.780 --> 13:02.940 And they were talking about, like, how people like the Russian mob and, like, other organized crime people would use the Internet and use technologies such as botnets, phishing, spamming, and all that stuff to make money and, like, basically to steal your money. 13:02.940 --> 13:06.620 And, like, what the government was doing to prevent that. 13:08.300 --> 13:22.820 I mean, that was also very good and very interesting because normally you don't really get a chance to, you know, see all this stuff because it's not in the news or maybe, you know, you don't follow, like, the mainstream computer security news or whatever. 13:23.040 --> 13:30.040 You know, it's nice to just kind of have that presented to you and say, okay, this is what's going on in the world today. 13:30.040 --> 13:38.000 I went and saw Lance James and Lucky 225 talk about fishing at Shmook Island. 13:38.020 --> 13:40.080 I actually didn't go to that one. 13:41.620 --> 13:42.680 But it was very interesting. 13:42.840 --> 13:47.940 You're right with, you know, what's going on behind the scenes, things that we don't see every day. 13:47.940 --> 13:49.700 Like, right. 13:49.980 --> 14:02.900 You know, like, they told you, but, like, they couldn't really give you any specifics, like, the number, the numbers of, like, you know, people doing such and such or, like, you know, how many botnets are there and, like, how big they are. 14:02.960 --> 14:14.860 But, you know, like, you get the idea of what's going on in the world, you know, on a very large scale for people who are not just using, you know, these cool hacker things to, like, play around. 14:14.860 --> 14:22.460 And, like, actually using them for committing organized time and all that stuff. 14:24.460 --> 14:24.900 Yeah. 14:26.380 --> 14:27.680 Totally awesome stuff. 14:29.120 --> 14:29.560 Yeah. 14:29.660 --> 14:30.360 So, I mean, like, I was saying. 14:30.360 --> 14:31.660 We're reverting to the 80s. 14:32.700 --> 14:33.040 Yeah. 14:33.620 --> 14:38.660 Like, I mean, like I was saying, there's just so many, like, much, much better talks on, like, things. 14:38.760 --> 14:41.500 But I mean, things that I personally am more interested in anyway. 14:41.500 --> 14:46.780 But, uh, so there's also Strom's talk. 14:47.400 --> 14:50.660 Strom actually did two talks at DEF CON this year. 14:51.320 --> 14:55.800 One he had was about hacking the FedEx Kinko cards. 14:57.080 --> 15:02.420 They're actually, like, for those who don't know, the Kinko card is actually a smart card. 15:02.420 --> 15:08.100 And, you know, he found, he basically reverse engineered it and he found out what information 15:08.100 --> 15:14.280 is stored on the card and how you can manipulate that and, you know, change, for example, the 15:14.280 --> 15:19.400 dollar value or, like, the kind of card is their special cards, like, you know, an employee 15:19.400 --> 15:22.180 card or whatever, and how you can mess with it. 15:22.280 --> 15:23.540 And that was very interesting. 15:23.540 --> 15:32.440 Um, and, you know, just basically, uh, I lost my place, but that's okay. 15:33.640 --> 15:37.020 And I think, actually, that was it for that day. 15:37.160 --> 15:42.820 I don't know, uh, Drew, do you have anything you wanted to add or any reactions to what I 15:42.820 --> 15:43.200 said? 15:43.200 --> 15:49.960 I don't know, I'm just, uh, it's, it's different when you're doing the show, because 15:49.960 --> 15:53.060 you'll, you'll start talking, and I'm just listening to you like I'm listening to you 15:53.060 --> 15:53.720 on my iPod. 15:54.740 --> 15:55.100 Oh. 15:55.260 --> 15:57.440 And I'm not even thinking about stuff to ask you. 15:57.560 --> 15:59.060 I'm just enjoying listening to the show. 15:59.880 --> 16:04.160 Okay, all right, so I'll just keep talking, because I didn't know if I was, like, um, 16:05.160 --> 16:05.440 monotonous. 16:05.440 --> 16:06.880 I'm a really bad radio host. 16:07.580 --> 16:10.000 I know, you're, you're, you're, you're the show today, buddy. 16:10.200 --> 16:10.920 You just keep talking. 16:10.920 --> 16:11.300 All right. 16:11.300 --> 16:13.880 All right, I'm just going to keep going, then. 16:13.980 --> 16:14.600 Fuck you guys. 16:15.580 --> 16:17.640 Um, that's the motto. 16:17.720 --> 16:22.060 All right, so I'm going to, if you're not sufficiently bored, I'm just going to highlight 16:22.060 --> 16:24.900 a couple other talks, and then we can talk about some other stuff. 16:25.580 --> 16:31.620 Um, so every year, Dan Kaminsky, um, I hope I'm pronouncing the last name right, but, uh, 16:31.620 --> 16:36.900 he does this talk called Black Off, and it's basically, you know, he's a security researcher, 16:36.900 --> 16:43.620 and each year he presents cool shit that he does, um, you know, on his own. 16:43.620 --> 16:49.760 Like, he used to work for Avaya, and he's worked for Cisco and all that stuff, and now 16:49.760 --> 16:54.360 he does, um, Doc's power research, and he's doing some really cool stuff. 16:54.520 --> 17:00.120 Like, for example, last year, if you were there, actually, so you were there, Drew, so did you 17:00.120 --> 17:02.040 remember Dan Kaminsky's talk? 17:02.900 --> 17:04.460 I didn't actually attend that talk. 17:04.620 --> 17:05.220 I wish I had. 17:05.220 --> 17:05.460 Okay. 17:06.080 --> 17:10.860 Yeah, last year, he did the whole thing with DNS, and basically just, like, all the cool 17:10.860 --> 17:16.060 shit you can do with DNS, and export it, and abuse it, just to do some really nice stuff. 17:16.700 --> 17:23.800 And this year, he had kind of, um, a more, a wider variety of topics that he talked about, 17:24.260 --> 17:26.320 and, uh, so I'm just going to go through some of them. 17:26.320 --> 17:32.160 And, um, the main thing he started off with is kind of, like, looking at the state of 17:32.160 --> 17:39.160 SSL usage today, because, like, SSL and TLS is kind of, like, the de facto standard for, 17:39.320 --> 17:43.400 you know, the, um, internet e-commerce sites and, like, all of that stuff. 17:43.520 --> 17:47.540 You know, if you, if you want a, quote, quote, secure connection, then, like, that's what 17:47.540 --> 17:48.140 you use. 17:48.380 --> 17:54.820 So he just kind of, like, pointed out the, the various flaws in, um, the deployment of 17:54.820 --> 18:02.000 SSL, and kind of, like, how you can, you know, exploit certain things that people would 18:02.000 --> 18:08.820 do, and maybe they didn't set it up right, or just kind of, um, you know, basic, uh, 18:08.820 --> 18:11.500 vulnerabilities that are actually in the protocol itself. 18:11.500 --> 18:18.500 Um, so if you want to look at the slides, you know, because I'm not going to repeat this 18:18.500 --> 18:21.060 talk and go into it, but that was really cool. 18:21.500 --> 18:27.600 And, uh, he actually spent the rest of the talk on, uh, something that I don't, personally 18:27.600 --> 18:34.880 don't have too much experience with, but it was, like, um, reverse engineering, um, text 18:34.880 --> 18:40.640 dumps and, like, binaries and stuff, and how he can use certain analysis protocols and, 18:40.640 --> 18:46.400 like, programs and techniques, um, that traditionally hasn't been used for this kind of stuff, but 18:46.400 --> 18:50.300 how he applied it and kind of found out some very interesting things he can do with it. 18:50.720 --> 18:57.640 So one of the things he did is that, um, he would, like, compare a program, like, against 18:57.640 --> 19:04.540 itself and, like, compare it with other programs, and he would make this 2D graph where, like, 19:04.620 --> 19:10.680 two programs or, like, a program with itself is similar, then it would make, like, a dot 19:10.680 --> 19:11.840 on the graph. 19:11.940 --> 19:17.020 So you end up, you know, so you basically just throw these two binary files or, you 19:17.020 --> 19:22.280 know, the one binary file into this program, and you get a graph, and you would see these 19:22.280 --> 19:24.760 little, like, clusters of things that were interesting. 19:24.760 --> 19:30.440 So you would see, like, you know, for example, a diagonal line would be, like, if two programs 19:30.440 --> 19:36.320 were exactly the same, and, you know, if, like, there would be, like, boxes of dots and, 19:36.320 --> 19:41.000 like, different shapes of dots, which that would mean, like, okay, this section of the 19:41.000 --> 19:45.820 program is self-contained, or, like, if, you know, one section of the program would refer 19:45.820 --> 19:49.020 to another one a lot, and then you can tell all these cool things. 19:49.400 --> 19:54.340 So this is, you know, like, he just kind of started doing that, and kind of just brought 19:54.340 --> 20:00.360 that out and saying, like, okay, so what we need now is kind of, like, a way to, you 20:00.360 --> 20:01.940 know, figure out what these things mean. 20:02.020 --> 20:07.040 Like, okay, what exactly does having, you know, like, a rectangle here mean, or, like, 20:07.060 --> 20:11.180 what exactly does having, like, a line that, like, does, like, little bumps here mean, or 20:11.180 --> 20:11.480 whatever. 20:11.760 --> 20:17.300 So just kind of, like, a new way to do that that I think could actually go similar, you 20:17.300 --> 20:19.340 know, so that was really cool. 20:20.180 --> 20:28.200 And so there, okay, so I won't spend the whole time talking about talks, but there 20:28.200 --> 20:28.700 is another... 20:28.700 --> 20:31.960 No, no, no, no, I'm really interested in the talks, actually, because I missed them. 20:32.100 --> 20:32.380 Okay. 20:34.620 --> 20:36.580 So, okay, I'll just go through a couple more. 20:36.580 --> 20:49.780 There was one that Stank and I went to about covert channels in IPv6 and ICNPv6, and he 20:49.780 --> 20:55.220 basically, I mean, it wasn't, like, technically too interesting, but the application was pretty 20:55.220 --> 20:55.520 cool. 20:55.880 --> 21:00.860 He kind of just, like, kind of took the IPv6 header and the ICNPv6 header to see where 21:00.860 --> 21:07.820 you can hide data, you know, and still have routers looking at it or whatever analysis 21:07.820 --> 21:13.940 tool people would be using, you know, to still think it was a legitimate packet that 21:13.940 --> 21:16.220 was being sent on the v6 network. 21:16.880 --> 21:21.840 So, you know, he showed, like, examples and code and, like, where he would put the data 21:21.840 --> 21:28.000 and stuff, and, you know, it's nice to see someone doing a, you know, research and, like, 21:28.000 --> 21:32.700 thinking about applications of v6 before it has been, you know, globally deployed. 21:33.220 --> 21:35.640 So that was really interesting, too. 21:36.000 --> 21:39.320 And I think, actually, Stank started dozing off on that one. 21:39.360 --> 21:39.820 I'm not sure. 21:39.900 --> 21:41.320 You'll have to ask him about that. 21:43.060 --> 21:48.700 But the last one I'm going to talk about is a talk by Gaudi Evron. 21:48.880 --> 21:49.640 It's his last name. 21:50.060 --> 21:50.580 I'm not a member. 21:50.780 --> 21:54.300 But it's called DNS Abuse, Infrastructure, and Gain. 21:54.300 --> 21:59.780 Now, the name was kind of ambiguous, and I thought it was going to be a talk kind of 21:59.780 --> 22:04.860 like the one that Dan did last year about, like, using DNS itself to make it do cool things. 22:05.220 --> 22:11.780 But as it turns out, it was a talk about botnet and what, you know, like, you know, 22:11.780 --> 22:20.760 how she just did that kind of arguing with DNS to kind of enable the use of botnet. 22:20.760 --> 22:26.120 Because, you know, like, so for those of you who don't know, botnet is basically a ton 22:26.120 --> 22:28.960 of, like, millions and, you know, millions of owned machines. 22:29.680 --> 22:32.060 And, you know, you have to control them. 22:32.160 --> 22:33.760 So there are these, like, command centers. 22:34.580 --> 22:38.940 Now, these command centers, you have to kind of get to them, right, from where you are. 22:39.140 --> 22:42.260 I mean, whether you're using Tor or whatever, but you still need to address them. 22:42.260 --> 22:46.260 So most people now are using DNS for that. 22:46.780 --> 22:52.460 And, you know, he was showing how they would abuse DNS to basically not get caught and not 22:52.460 --> 22:53.680 get their botnet shut down. 22:53.900 --> 22:59.480 So he went through examples like how, you know, they would use many different command centers 22:59.480 --> 23:05.140 and have the DNS entry expire, like, in some ridiculous amount of time, like 10 minutes or 23:05.140 --> 23:05.840 like one minute. 23:05.840 --> 23:11.220 Then, like, the command center would just kind of move, you know, every, like, one minute 23:11.220 --> 23:12.980 so it would be really hard to track. 23:13.340 --> 23:17.900 Because, you know, by the time you mobilize your, like, response team and you take down 23:17.900 --> 23:23.020 that machine, they would be gone and using some other, you know, command center. 23:23.340 --> 23:26.560 And, like, all this stuff that people were doing to keep their botnet. 23:27.120 --> 23:31.560 So, I mean, that was very interesting in the perspective of, you know, someone who's kind 23:31.560 --> 23:36.700 of, like, you know, maybe thinking about, like, doing some of that. 23:37.440 --> 23:39.600 And I think that's all the talks I'm going to talk about. 23:39.660 --> 23:43.260 Because on Sunday, I didn't actually go to any talks. 23:43.780 --> 23:50.280 I just ended up hanging out and, like, sitting around with Spank and, like, this and upside 23:50.280 --> 23:51.200 down and all of them. 23:51.940 --> 23:57.000 And not very and just, like, chilling because I was really tired from the night before. 23:57.000 --> 24:03.800 That's one of my favorite parts about the con is the social aspect of, you know, putting 24:03.800 --> 24:04.680 a name to a face. 24:05.680 --> 24:06.480 Oh, yeah, definitely. 24:06.700 --> 24:11.200 Like, I met so many people there that I've been, you know, talking to online for so long. 24:11.300 --> 24:16.780 And it's just good to kind of have that chance, like, engage in, like, a real physical conversation 24:16.780 --> 24:17.480 with them, you know? 24:18.280 --> 24:18.520 Mm-hmm. 24:19.680 --> 24:24.420 Like, yeah, like, I mean, like, I think Spank has said this before and everyone always 24:24.420 --> 24:28.880 says this, but, you know, one observation that I have going to the con is that you always 24:28.880 --> 24:31.480 see people, like, I don't know what they're doing. 24:31.620 --> 24:36.800 And maybe it's, like, really important, but they just sit at, you know, some table the 24:36.800 --> 24:38.760 whole weekend looking at their laptops. 24:38.900 --> 24:42.580 And that doesn't make any sense to me because, like, I paid all this money to go here. 24:43.060 --> 24:47.580 And, you know, I should probably go do something else that I wouldn't be doing if I hadn't 24:47.580 --> 24:48.140 been in my room. 24:48.220 --> 24:53.020 But I guess to each his own way if you want to pay the $100 they get in just to sit at a table 24:53.020 --> 25:01.900 and type and pay for overpriced food and $2.50 bottles of Coke or whatever. 25:02.100 --> 25:03.580 No, cans of Coke, excuse me. 25:04.460 --> 25:06.740 In Vegas, $2.50 for a can of Coke? 25:07.280 --> 25:11.160 Well, in the con, I mean, you can get cheaper Coke outside. 25:11.160 --> 25:16.160 But, like, you know, I'm talking about, like, in the area where they have food next, like, 25:16.200 --> 25:19.560 the vendors, like, the hangout area with all the tables and, like, they do some of the 25:19.560 --> 25:20.340 competitions there. 25:20.860 --> 25:23.940 A can of Coke is $2.50, which is just ridiculous. 25:24.880 --> 25:26.760 But I ran into that last year. 25:27.720 --> 25:31.640 Yeah, I mean, they do that every year because it's, like, you know, I mean, like, they do 25:31.640 --> 25:32.400 it because they can. 25:32.640 --> 25:36.160 And then that's pretty much how a lot of businesses operate. 25:36.160 --> 25:43.440 But, like, Ziggy and Logos and Lunar Street, I think, was the one. 25:43.440 --> 25:47.960 Some of us were just hanging out, and we were doing something, and I said, well, I'll go 25:47.960 --> 25:48.860 get Cokes for everybody. 25:49.340 --> 25:50.300 And it was, like, $20. 25:51.680 --> 25:53.640 I was, like, you know, for some canned Coke. 25:53.800 --> 25:55.940 It's like, shit, I should have just brought my own Coke. 25:56.940 --> 26:02.460 Seriously, yeah, like, when you go there on Thursday night, you see all these people coming 26:02.460 --> 26:08.280 with, like, you know, their own stuff and water and, like, food and, you know, and drinks 26:08.280 --> 26:15.620 or whatever, like, I mean, it definitely makes sense if you draw, you know, bring your own 26:15.620 --> 26:17.960 stuff because shit there is really expensive. 26:19.180 --> 26:24.620 Yeah, last year we brought some Gatorade, the powder, and just bottles of water because 26:24.620 --> 26:28.840 any place will give you water, you know, just out of the sink, and then just pour some Gatorade 26:28.840 --> 26:29.980 in it, and you've got to drink. 26:31.720 --> 26:32.600 Yeah, seriously. 26:33.980 --> 26:36.240 But, um, I think it was Pupster. 26:36.520 --> 26:36.960 Oh, go ahead. 26:38.280 --> 26:45.840 I was just going to say, like, they have more competitions this year, too, I think. 26:46.820 --> 26:49.180 But the competitions were definitely much better. 26:49.500 --> 26:55.340 Like, they had new stuff, like Amateur Capture the Flag, and they had this new game called 26:55.340 --> 27:00.740 the Mystery Box, which is, like, I think, I mean, I actually didn't see most of it, but 27:00.740 --> 27:03.980 I just heard about it at the award ceremony, but it's a new game. 27:03.980 --> 27:09.920 I think it's mainly lockpicking, and, like, basically you have these boxes, and you have 27:09.920 --> 27:14.960 to try to get into them by either picking the lock or doing some other type of, you know, 27:15.040 --> 27:15.520 whatever. 27:15.520 --> 27:19.300 And, um, everyone seemed to love it. 27:19.300 --> 27:25.000 And, like, from the description, I didn't know, like, you know, like, it didn't sound that cool 27:25.000 --> 27:25.400 to me. 27:25.680 --> 27:29.060 But when they talked about it at the award ceremonies, everyone was going nuts. 27:29.480 --> 27:34.640 So anyone listening actually knew, know the actual rules, please tell me, because I would 27:34.640 --> 27:36.860 love to, like, know what was going on. 27:36.860 --> 27:39.540 So it was a physical box, not, like, a computer. 27:39.720 --> 27:40.700 It was just some box. 27:40.780 --> 27:41.640 Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry. 27:41.740 --> 27:44.660 It was an actual, like, three-dimensional box. 27:44.960 --> 27:47.120 Well, I guess a computer is three-dimensional also. 27:47.580 --> 27:53.740 But, yeah, it's not a computer, you know, a box to put whatever, and yet to physically 27:53.740 --> 27:58.100 break into it, like, by, you know, picking the lock, like I said, or whatever else they 27:58.100 --> 27:58.680 had to do. 27:59.040 --> 28:00.600 But everyone seemed to love that. 28:00.600 --> 28:04.240 So, you know, they always have new stuff coming. 28:05.080 --> 28:11.380 And, um, actually, um, if you were there for, like, the previous years, um, they had 28:11.380 --> 28:14.940 the, um, robot wars. 28:15.300 --> 28:18.520 And I don't think too many people, um, participated. 28:18.780 --> 28:21.680 But this year, they had way more people participate. 28:22.280 --> 28:24.080 And, you know, it was much better. 28:24.080 --> 28:29.620 Like, the game was to have a robot autonomously shoot targets. 28:30.640 --> 28:35.100 Like, you know, so you would just kind of press start and let the robot go. 28:35.420 --> 28:37.140 And it would have to shoot down, like, 30 targets. 28:38.060 --> 28:39.500 It would have to shoot airsoft, wouldn't it? 28:40.140 --> 28:41.220 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 28:41.660 --> 28:49.240 And, um, each target had, you know, some sort of, like, identifier that, like, the camera 28:49.240 --> 28:51.140 and your robot can track. 28:51.440 --> 28:53.760 And you had to, like, write software or do whatever. 28:54.080 --> 28:57.680 To, you know, have it automatically track and shoot those targets. 28:57.900 --> 29:00.600 And most of the robots did, like, fairly well. 29:01.240 --> 29:06.040 And, you know, it's not easy to make a robot, like, automatically track and shoot stuff. 29:07.020 --> 29:11.760 But, yeah, I mean, there were a lot of really, really interesting things happening there. 29:12.180 --> 29:14.320 And, you know, it was just too much, actually. 29:14.400 --> 29:15.700 I mean, to be honest, it was too much. 29:15.940 --> 29:19.840 I was walking around and, like, there were, like, three things going on. 29:19.940 --> 29:22.280 And one, like, in my field of vision all the time. 29:22.280 --> 29:25.240 And I was trying to, like, you know, see what was going on. 29:25.400 --> 29:26.740 And it just ended up being too much. 29:26.820 --> 29:28.240 I definitely burned out by Sunday. 29:28.240 --> 29:35.300 Yeah, there's definitely, you're just walking around and you'll go into a room and there's 29:35.300 --> 29:36.100 all this going on. 29:36.160 --> 29:37.940 And you'll go somewhere else and there's all this going on. 29:38.380 --> 29:41.280 And then throughout the hotel there's all this stuff going on. 29:41.720 --> 29:43.100 You can't possibly see everything. 29:43.100 --> 29:45.860 No, no, definitely not. 29:46.860 --> 29:48.080 But I did try. 29:48.820 --> 29:50.920 And that didn't work out too well. 29:51.420 --> 29:55.400 Because on the last day I was just like, oh, man, I'm so tired. 29:55.720 --> 29:56.600 Dude, I don't even care. 29:56.980 --> 29:58.020 I'm just going to sit here. 29:59.020 --> 29:59.200 Yeah. 29:59.780 --> 30:06.360 But, no, I mean, for someone with a little more stamina than me, there's definitely enough to see. 30:06.360 --> 30:09.060 Good deal. 30:10.420 --> 30:16.000 So, did y'all do cool things? 30:17.120 --> 30:17.780 Yeah, definitely. 30:18.440 --> 30:21.560 So, previous year they had the black and white ball. 30:22.220 --> 30:24.340 And this year they kind of broke it up. 30:24.700 --> 30:27.460 And on Friday night it was the black ball. 30:27.860 --> 30:31.320 And on Saturday night it was the white ball. 30:31.600 --> 30:35.200 And also, so they had these at the penthouse, which is really cool. 30:35.200 --> 30:39.060 So, but they also had, like, private parties. 30:39.500 --> 30:43.940 Well, not really private, but, like, parties that, like, specific groups threw. 30:44.300 --> 30:47.200 And, like, some of them you need an invite, but some of them you didn't. 30:47.460 --> 30:50.520 So, there's definitely more than, like, just one thing going on. 30:50.840 --> 30:55.680 And they had, like, some really good DJs and people, you know, spinning and stuff. 30:55.940 --> 30:57.960 And, actually, I've never heard them before. 30:58.040 --> 30:59.180 I mean, I've heard of them. 30:59.540 --> 31:01.840 But they had the mini bosses play. 31:02.340 --> 31:04.320 And everyone was really excited about that. 31:04.320 --> 31:05.960 But I've never actually heard them. 31:06.320 --> 31:07.500 Do you know what I'm talking about? 31:08.200 --> 31:08.900 No, I don't. 31:09.920 --> 31:11.440 It's some band. 31:11.680 --> 31:13.120 And it's supposed to be really good. 31:13.660 --> 31:14.720 And, like, I've heard of them. 31:14.880 --> 31:16.280 And, like, they're, you know, like, they're real. 31:16.620 --> 31:20.020 And they had them play on Saturday, I think. 31:20.620 --> 31:22.560 And, you know, like, it was a good turn. 31:22.560 --> 31:24.580 And, like, I went up there. 31:24.780 --> 31:30.520 But one thing I have to warn you is that for a lot of those parties, you have to be 21. 31:31.020 --> 31:34.980 There was, like, there was this big, like, deal. 31:35.360 --> 31:38.660 Because I guess the Metro went there. 31:38.660 --> 31:42.080 Like, I didn't actually see any cops. 31:42.460 --> 31:46.420 But they were saying, like, the Metro was there undercover. 31:46.900 --> 31:50.020 And they were, like, busting people for being underage and drinking. 31:50.420 --> 31:53.960 So, like, they got really uptight about it later. 31:54.220 --> 31:58.240 And they made you show your ID, like, every time you pass certain checkpoints. 31:58.240 --> 32:08.040 So, if you're not 21, you know, either don't go or have some way where you can prove that you are actually over 21. 32:08.240 --> 32:09.800 Now, I'm not saying get a fake ID. 32:10.340 --> 32:12.680 I'm just saying that's what happens. 32:13.020 --> 32:19.320 And if you want to go to parties, just make sure, you know, you're 21 if you're not already somehow. 32:22.220 --> 32:26.040 Or if you're under 21, you can always go, like, to the arcade or something at the casino, right? 32:26.040 --> 32:28.740 Yeah, I guess so. 32:30.640 --> 32:32.160 That's a good idea. 32:32.980 --> 32:35.920 I mean, yes, yes, Drew, you are right. 32:36.460 --> 32:38.180 You can always go to the arcade. 32:38.880 --> 32:39.480 The arcade. 32:39.480 --> 32:41.540 Or you can always go to the 3x10. 32:43.480 --> 32:44.960 Have your mom pick you up. 32:45.800 --> 32:46.360 Exactly. 32:47.860 --> 32:48.340 Exactly. 32:50.280 --> 32:53.260 Maybe you can go, like, a parent. 32:53.860 --> 32:55.520 You show with your mom. 32:56.040 --> 32:59.400 And then your mom says, it's okay, you know, like, at the movies. 33:00.100 --> 33:01.000 That would work. 33:01.400 --> 33:04.980 So, if you guys are under 21, try to bring your mom. 33:05.820 --> 33:07.500 I'm sure they'll let you in. 33:08.840 --> 33:09.200 Yes. 33:10.460 --> 33:11.680 That'll always work. 33:12.740 --> 33:15.040 Because nothing makes you cooler than bringing your mom to the party. 33:16.140 --> 33:17.360 Hey, you don't know my mom. 33:17.380 --> 33:17.940 That's right. 33:18.000 --> 33:19.280 You don't know my mom. 33:19.280 --> 33:22.820 What happens in Vegas State in Vegas. 33:26.240 --> 33:26.860 That's right. 33:26.960 --> 33:27.520 That's right. 33:28.240 --> 33:34.340 Or you can hire a prostitute who's over 21 and pretend to have that be your mom. 33:35.220 --> 33:36.160 That would also work. 33:36.160 --> 33:37.200 That would be awesome. 33:38.400 --> 33:39.160 That would. 33:39.300 --> 33:43.500 And, you know, once you get in there, you don't have to tell people she's your mom. 33:44.060 --> 33:45.840 You can just be like, yeah, this is my girlfriend. 33:46.000 --> 33:46.220 What? 33:46.960 --> 33:47.320 What? 33:48.900 --> 33:50.340 This is my prostitute. 33:52.880 --> 33:57.220 But, again, you have to get, like, the $500 together. 33:57.860 --> 34:00.260 I mean, supposedly, $500. 34:00.600 --> 34:02.320 I don't actually know how much it is. 34:02.920 --> 34:05.060 But, you know, I'm just throwing a number out there. 34:05.620 --> 34:07.180 That was something that amazed us. 34:07.260 --> 34:08.560 Like, they're in the phone book. 34:13.400 --> 34:15.100 You know, for companionship. 34:16.760 --> 34:18.300 It's very interesting there in Vegas. 34:18.300 --> 34:19.320 I think it's what they call it. 34:19.860 --> 34:20.420 A date. 34:21.380 --> 34:21.780 Yeah. 34:23.400 --> 34:24.180 A date. 34:24.180 --> 34:25.080 Oh, good deal. 34:26.320 --> 34:26.600 Okay. 34:26.840 --> 34:31.320 Finram is in no way advocating the use of prostitutes. 34:32.000 --> 34:34.600 So, let's just get that out there. 34:35.460 --> 34:41.840 Look, let's just go over the top and give a tip for the people that are under 21 trying to get some liquor on. 34:41.920 --> 34:42.160 Okay? 34:42.660 --> 34:44.580 Let's just do that and be done with this whole subject. 34:44.720 --> 34:44.960 Okay? 34:45.560 --> 34:45.960 Okay. 34:46.460 --> 34:47.360 I'll go first. 34:47.900 --> 34:48.300 Okay. 34:48.500 --> 34:52.180 Go to a restaurant that has a bar and is popular. 34:52.180 --> 34:54.040 So, like, on Fridays, you have to wait. 34:54.960 --> 34:59.520 Go straight into the bar with a friend that's over 21 and get them to order a drink. 34:59.800 --> 35:01.180 They will be ID'd at the bar. 35:01.780 --> 35:02.680 They will get their drink. 35:03.340 --> 35:05.100 Then say, oh, we're going to sit at a table. 35:05.280 --> 35:06.060 Go sit at your table. 35:06.900 --> 35:10.500 The underage person takes the drink and sets it in front of them. 35:11.480 --> 35:16.140 So, they've already, you know, when the waitress comes around, she thinks they've already been ID'd because they've got a beer. 35:17.020 --> 35:20.980 And then the over 21 guy says, hey, you know, I changed my mind. 35:21.020 --> 35:21.680 I want a beer, too. 35:22.380 --> 35:23.520 They get ID'd again. 35:24.360 --> 35:25.400 And you both have a beer. 35:25.400 --> 35:29.920 You just blew my mind. 35:30.480 --> 35:33.680 That is the most intricate plan I've ever heard. 35:34.760 --> 35:35.200 Okay. 35:35.320 --> 35:36.500 It works every time. 35:36.620 --> 35:38.660 Or at least it used to, like, eight years ago. 35:38.660 --> 35:41.320 All right. 35:41.420 --> 35:42.960 Here's my advice. 35:43.460 --> 35:46.140 Next year at DEF CON, come find me. 35:46.260 --> 35:47.700 I will buy you alcohol. 35:48.460 --> 35:50.200 Unless you're under 15. 35:50.540 --> 35:53.240 I will not buy you alcohol if you're under 15. 35:53.800 --> 35:56.620 But any other age, I will hook you up. 35:58.080 --> 35:58.600 Yeah. 35:58.980 --> 35:59.600 That's my tip. 35:59.940 --> 36:02.620 That's much simpler than whatever you just said. 36:02.620 --> 36:04.360 I kind of zoned out after two seconds. 36:05.780 --> 36:06.440 Good deal. 36:07.240 --> 36:09.140 Mr. Lotec, you have any advice for anybody? 36:11.460 --> 36:11.820 No. 36:11.940 --> 36:13.940 I'm going to stand on the legal side of this conversation. 36:13.960 --> 36:15.560 See, technically, this is social engineering. 36:15.720 --> 36:18.360 This is something that, like, if I owned a restaurant, I'd want to hear. 36:18.760 --> 36:22.740 So, I could say, hey, maybe when someone orders a drink, ID them again. 36:24.620 --> 36:25.160 You know? 36:25.240 --> 36:25.440 Yeah. 36:25.540 --> 36:26.160 Don't be lazy. 36:29.920 --> 36:32.080 Or if you're a policeman, just follow a verbal around. 36:32.620 --> 36:32.860 Okay. 36:33.300 --> 36:33.620 Anyway. 36:33.780 --> 36:34.300 Okay. 36:34.440 --> 36:35.520 Let's move on. 36:37.440 --> 36:42.000 So, the quality of talks at DEF CON this year, were they up to normal? 36:42.160 --> 36:45.180 I noticed a lot of people were doing, you know, multiple talks. 36:46.820 --> 36:47.260 Yeah. 36:47.480 --> 36:49.060 I did notice that, too. 36:49.160 --> 36:51.220 I'm not sure what the deal with that is. 36:51.220 --> 36:54.320 But the quality of talks was definitely higher. 36:54.840 --> 36:57.080 Well, let me say this. 36:57.740 --> 37:02.420 The topics and kind of technical level of the talks, 37:02.620 --> 37:05.000 were better than previous years. 37:05.600 --> 37:09.620 But then again, you know, like, some people are just naturally, like, 37:09.660 --> 37:11.100 better at speaking than others. 37:11.720 --> 37:14.440 So, like, if, you know, someone who happens to do a talk, 37:14.520 --> 37:16.800 but if they're kind of, like, boring or whatever, 37:17.280 --> 37:19.040 then that talk wouldn't be as good, obviously. 37:19.220 --> 37:22.460 But, like, kind of the topics that they would talk about was, you know, 37:22.500 --> 37:24.460 much better than previous years. 37:24.460 --> 37:26.460 And I don't know why that's happening. 37:27.120 --> 37:28.820 But, I mean, it's definitely a good thing. 37:28.960 --> 37:33.020 You know, for whatever reason, kind of, like, the right – 37:33.020 --> 37:37.220 we're getting the, you know, right number of right people doing talks. 37:37.600 --> 37:40.840 And, you know, I definitely hope to see that trend continue. 37:40.840 --> 37:46.800 All right, we're at 37 minutes. 37:46.960 --> 37:47.420 Good deal. 37:49.340 --> 37:49.800 All right. 37:49.840 --> 37:50.240 Wait, what? 37:51.420 --> 37:53.460 We've gotten 37 minutes of the show done. 37:54.140 --> 37:54.500 Okay. 37:55.040 --> 37:58.020 Well, you're going to take out some stuff, right? 37:58.120 --> 38:01.680 Like, me talking right now, you're not going to have that on the show, right? 38:02.580 --> 38:03.360 Oh, no, no. 38:03.480 --> 38:07.460 We're going to talk out – we're going to take out where I called Losak by his real name. 38:08.740 --> 38:08.920 Okay. 38:11.660 --> 38:18.540 All right, so I'm just saying, like, we probably have less than 37 minutes of actual time. 38:18.760 --> 38:19.020 Okay. 38:19.860 --> 38:22.080 Yeah, there's probably, like, 15 minutes. 38:24.800 --> 38:26.200 Penis, penis, penis, penis. 38:26.820 --> 38:29.000 How long is the show supposed to be anyway? 38:29.960 --> 38:31.140 Well, a little over an hour. 38:31.960 --> 38:32.780 Oh, my God. 38:32.800 --> 38:34.600 Yeah, that's what I was shooting for, like, an hour. 38:35.000 --> 38:37.220 So, I don't know, like, we can – I guess – I don't know. 38:37.240 --> 38:40.400 Is there anybody else we can call, or is it all, uh, Mr. – 38:40.400 --> 38:42.980 Let me see if anyone's online. 38:43.640 --> 38:47.500 Because Upside Down was there, and he can pen for documentary he's doing. 38:48.960 --> 38:49.980 Hell, yeah, get him. 38:50.780 --> 38:53.180 Did he check out this, uh, mystery box? 38:53.180 --> 38:55.700 I'm interested in this, uh, fucking mystery box. 38:55.800 --> 38:57.120 That motherfucker sounds cool. 38:57.700 --> 38:59.200 I don't think he did. 39:00.300 --> 39:00.740 Okay. 39:00.740 --> 39:03.180 Uh, he is not answering. 39:03.680 --> 39:04.780 Should I call him? 39:05.680 --> 39:06.780 Oh, wait, he's here. 39:07.400 --> 39:11.020 Uh, hey, come on the radio show. 39:11.840 --> 39:13.340 We're not cutting this out. 39:14.340 --> 39:15.440 No, I don't. 39:15.440 --> 39:15.760 Okay. 39:15.760 --> 39:23.840 But I have some other filler. 39:24.180 --> 39:28.860 We have the Hacker Media site finally ready, and I was going to talk, like, ten minutes on it, so. 39:29.700 --> 39:30.060 Okay. 39:30.920 --> 39:32.300 And then we were going to beatbox. 39:34.520 --> 39:35.080 All right. 39:35.080 --> 39:40.040 We could just find, like, uh, like a Grateful Dead track that's, like, 20 minutes long and play that at the end. 39:47.300 --> 39:47.660 Okay. 39:47.820 --> 39:48.460 He's up. 39:48.700 --> 39:50.960 He's going to call at some point. 39:51.960 --> 39:52.200 All right. 39:52.240 --> 39:52.420 Sweet. 39:52.420 --> 39:53.780 What else are we talking about? 39:54.860 --> 39:55.920 We did the talks. 39:55.980 --> 39:56.660 We did the content. 39:57.480 --> 39:58.400 Blah, blah, blah, blah. 39:59.400 --> 40:02.220 We should talk about some, like, I don't know. 40:03.500 --> 40:03.820 So. 40:03.980 --> 40:06.300 I have some questions for you specifically, if that's cool. 40:06.960 --> 40:07.320 Yeah. 40:07.540 --> 40:11.360 I mean, it doesn't have to be about that fun. 40:11.860 --> 40:12.760 Ask me anything. 40:13.380 --> 40:13.740 Bring it. 40:13.940 --> 40:16.580 Well, uh, what kind of hacker projects are you working on right now? 40:17.800 --> 40:19.520 Oh, this is a personal interview. 40:19.620 --> 40:19.960 All right. 40:19.960 --> 40:27.920 Um, right now, uh, we're doing, actually, this is a good time to pimp Hack Exchange. 40:28.700 --> 40:30.260 Um, okay. 40:30.260 --> 40:36.780 Right now, I'm working on something with a bunch of people from Binrev called hackerexchange.com. 40:37.220 --> 40:41.640 Originally, um, well, it still is, is a Logos' baby. 40:42.160 --> 40:46.600 And I think he kind of got caught up in some stuff, so I offered to take it over. 40:47.260 --> 40:52.720 Um, but what it is, is, I know I'm going to get a lot of shit from this, but what it is, 40:52.760 --> 40:56.460 is a cross between MySpace and SourceForge. 40:56.620 --> 40:57.300 There, I've said it. 40:58.040 --> 40:58.280 Awesome. 40:58.280 --> 41:04.520 It's kind of like a social networking site, like, kind of geared towards, uh, hackers 41:04.520 --> 41:09.080 and other, like, you know, geeks of whatever kind, like phone freaks or whatever. 41:09.540 --> 41:14.000 It's kind of a place for them to find other people to work on projects for and just, you 41:14.000 --> 41:18.520 know, kind of do whatever it is that people do on social networking sites. 41:19.400 --> 41:23.360 And, uh, you know, a couple people have signed on, but we can always use more people. 41:24.100 --> 41:28.260 Um, it, right now, it's kind of on hold for me personally. 41:28.260 --> 41:33.380 Because I'm working on some other stuff, but I'm definitely, you know, it's definitely 41:33.380 --> 41:36.100 in my mind, and I'm going to do it. 41:36.720 --> 41:38.580 But I just need to find the time. 41:38.720 --> 41:40.960 So, if anyone wants to help, that would be awesome. 41:41.640 --> 41:46.280 Um, another, I mean, some other, okay, so obviously I have, uh, nine to five. 41:46.400 --> 41:49.900 Well, it's more like ten, eleven to six. 41:50.300 --> 41:54.500 But, uh, you know, I have a job during the day, so, you know, I'm doing that. 41:54.840 --> 41:59.840 And I'm actually also doing a startup, and I can't really talk about it, but it's going 41:59.840 --> 42:03.760 to be about, like, um, application programming for phones. 42:04.000 --> 42:07.580 So, we're just going to write some applications, try to make some money, I guess. 42:08.860 --> 42:10.540 What, what else am I working on? 42:10.540 --> 42:21.560 Um, so, so in addition to all the stuff I said before, um, wait, I can't actually, oh, hold 42:21.560 --> 42:22.760 on, stop, time out. 42:23.480 --> 42:27.200 I, I can't talk about what other stuff I'm working on. 42:27.300 --> 42:30.780 It's kind of, uh, not legal. 42:30.780 --> 42:35.060 No, no, it's legal, but it's kind of, like, sketchy, you know? 42:36.060 --> 42:36.740 Okay, never mind. 42:37.300 --> 42:37.660 So... 42:37.660 --> 42:38.720 Are you selling drugs on Craigslist? 42:39.640 --> 42:40.080 What? 42:40.680 --> 42:42.360 Are you selling drugs on Craigslist? 42:43.280 --> 42:45.300 Yes, on Craigslist and MySpace. 42:45.300 --> 42:46.620 Oh, so there's... 42:46.620 --> 42:47.080 Oh, let's hang on. 42:47.320 --> 42:54.280 Okay, so we're also doing a, um, okay, it's what some people want to call the real 42:54.280 --> 43:00.760 duck droppers, quote, quote, but, um, Kyle and I are actually just starting a, 43:00.780 --> 43:06.860 uh, repository of kind of e-books and, and other things that people might have. 43:07.100 --> 43:12.060 And the interesting part, I mean, the, the, the part that, you know, we want to work on 43:12.060 --> 43:13.940 is kind of like a textual search. 43:14.100 --> 43:21.140 So if you have all these text documents and whatever on a website, then, then you, you 43:21.140 --> 43:22.480 don't really know what's in there. 43:22.600 --> 43:25.580 And that's, you know, that's one of the good things about, like, Google Books and other 43:25.580 --> 43:26.620 services like that. 43:26.740 --> 43:29.820 So what we want to do is write a textual search on it. 43:29.820 --> 43:34.620 And, you know, it'll give us, like, a chance to play with web, web crawlers and all that 43:34.620 --> 43:34.960 junk. 43:35.180 --> 43:37.040 So that's something else I'm working on. 43:37.740 --> 43:42.100 And, um, I think that's all I'm working on that I can... 43:42.100 --> 43:45.560 And we're also joined by, uh, Mr. Upside Down. 43:46.400 --> 43:47.400 And, uh, say hi. 43:48.360 --> 43:48.720 Hello. 43:49.540 --> 43:51.020 And he also went to DEFCON. 43:51.160 --> 43:54.480 So now we have, uh, an equal ratio of goers and non-goers. 43:56.240 --> 43:59.300 And, uh, so, Mr. Upside Down, you want to talk about DEFCON for a second? 43:59.400 --> 44:00.620 Do you need me to ask you questions? 44:01.820 --> 44:02.240 What was that? 44:03.320 --> 44:06.100 Do you want to just talk on your own or do you want me to ask you questions? 44:06.100 --> 44:09.360 Oh, um, I don't know what questions I guess would be good. 44:09.540 --> 44:09.940 I don't know. 44:10.580 --> 44:11.620 Did you see any titties? 44:12.580 --> 44:13.500 Did I see what? 44:14.020 --> 44:14.960 Any titties? 44:15.120 --> 44:15.620 Any breasts? 44:15.980 --> 44:19.100 Um, only ones belonging to men? 44:19.480 --> 44:20.180 No females. 44:20.300 --> 44:20.580 Ooh. 44:20.580 --> 44:21.740 Yeah. 44:23.880 --> 44:24.440 Yeah. 44:24.540 --> 44:26.700 Well, you might as well just hang up now. 44:28.040 --> 44:28.420 Oh. 44:29.520 --> 44:30.080 Okay. 44:30.360 --> 44:30.940 Hold on. 44:31.400 --> 44:34.160 Let me go in for one second about this. 44:34.900 --> 44:35.680 This is... 44:35.680 --> 44:37.840 I know people are going to call me an asshole. 44:38.360 --> 44:44.060 But, so this weekend I was at DEFCON and two weekends ago I was at Comic-Con. 44:44.060 --> 44:52.200 And in this month I've seen more male breasts than I ever want to see again in my life. 44:52.700 --> 44:58.080 I don't know what I'm, you know, I don't know what I'm saying or, like, if I want people to do something about it. 44:58.280 --> 45:00.120 I'm just making the observation. 45:00.880 --> 45:04.900 And, you know, that's kind of a negative point for me for these conferences. 45:05.520 --> 45:10.260 So hopefully next year when I go there will be less male titties. 45:11.220 --> 45:11.940 That's all I'm saying. 45:12.900 --> 45:13.820 That's what I'm saying. 45:13.820 --> 45:14.580 It's like Mitch. 45:15.420 --> 45:17.540 So what talks did you go to, Sadab? 45:19.300 --> 45:22.740 I was actually running around doing a documentary a good amount of the time. 45:23.920 --> 45:27.960 So I really just went to Strong's to record that. 45:28.100 --> 45:29.520 And that was pretty much it. 45:29.740 --> 45:31.400 I didn't go to very many talks at all. 45:31.400 --> 45:38.040 I mean, I sat in on those repairing hard drives, I guess, or rebuilding them. 45:38.200 --> 45:39.220 And then that was it. 45:39.480 --> 45:41.340 And then I was just running around recording people. 45:42.220 --> 45:43.520 You're working on a documentary? 45:44.820 --> 45:45.460 Well, yeah. 45:45.680 --> 45:47.960 I was making a documentary about DEFCON itself. 45:48.400 --> 45:49.640 So, yeah. 45:50.800 --> 45:52.240 Well, why don't you talk for a minute about that? 45:54.820 --> 45:56.800 Well, wait. 45:56.960 --> 45:58.060 What should I talk about about that? 45:58.060 --> 46:01.860 Does it document, like, all DEFCONs or just this one? 46:02.060 --> 46:03.700 Or have you ever made a documentary before? 46:03.700 --> 46:08.000 I helped film a documentary before this. 46:08.160 --> 46:12.660 And then this is the only one that I've actually set out to do myself and do all the editing and everything. 46:13.400 --> 46:16.880 But it was just covering DEFCON just to show what it is. 46:16.880 --> 46:19.460 And, I mean, I interviewed Stank Dog. 46:19.640 --> 46:20.940 I interviewed Verbal. 46:20.940 --> 46:23.780 I interviewed – we interviewed people that were doing Capture the Flag. 46:26.300 --> 46:26.920 What else? 46:27.020 --> 46:28.780 We interviewed, like, a bunch of people. 46:29.240 --> 46:30.240 But – oh, yeah. 46:30.240 --> 46:31.560 I interviewed Dark Tangent, too. 46:31.760 --> 46:33.540 And so we got a lot of interviews down. 46:33.900 --> 46:38.960 But it was kind of a bitch recording it there because you can't really record any groups of people or anything. 46:39.060 --> 46:40.660 You can't have anyone walk in the background. 46:40.800 --> 46:42.060 When you're recording, they'll kick you out. 46:42.060 --> 46:43.540 So, yeah. 46:43.700 --> 46:46.520 We were just running around trying to – I was trying to run around to finish that up. 46:48.480 --> 46:49.240 Upside down. 46:49.340 --> 46:53.940 I actually – I mean, I saw people with cameras, like, just filming. 46:54.420 --> 47:00.760 Like, I don't know if that's, like, the official DEFCON video or what. 47:01.200 --> 47:04.040 Because there are definitely people filming all sorts of shit. 47:04.700 --> 47:06.660 Like, there has to be some way around it. 47:06.660 --> 47:11.340 Because, like, it doesn't make any sense that you can't, like, have those people in your shot. 47:12.680 --> 47:12.920 You know? 47:12.920 --> 47:13.080 Yeah. 47:13.080 --> 47:15.700 Because, like, I mean – oh, go ahead. 47:16.780 --> 47:26.180 No, because I was just saying, I mean, you know, there have been, like, documentaries and other, like, videos of, like, real things and, like, people. 47:26.480 --> 47:27.560 And, like, crowds of people. 47:27.640 --> 47:34.200 And I'm sure they didn't get – so I don't know what the deal is. 47:34.200 --> 47:42.580 But, you know, we should really look into how we can get around that for next year or, like, if we choose to do another video. 47:43.620 --> 47:44.020 Yeah. 47:44.140 --> 47:49.160 Well, what happened is when I was – they sent me the press guidelines when they told me I could do the documentary. 47:49.580 --> 47:54.220 Like, DEFCON itself, like, the press people sent me the press guidelines. 47:54.220 --> 47:57.240 And in it said you can't film groups of people. 47:57.960 --> 48:04.180 And then when I picked up my badge, they told me don't film groups of people, don't film any feds, don't film any hackers. 48:04.460 --> 48:07.040 You know, like, they'll be in the background and they don't want to be. 48:07.580 --> 48:08.700 And this whole mess. 48:08.900 --> 48:11.520 And then I ran into Zink also. 48:12.460 --> 48:13.460 It was one of the goons. 48:13.460 --> 48:20.880 And he said that I guess they had to chase some guy down because he wanted to capture the flag and try to take a panning shot of the entire arena. 48:21.640 --> 48:24.180 And they had to chase him down to get the tape back. 48:25.060 --> 48:26.240 And it was a whole mess, so. 48:27.200 --> 48:31.620 Now, is it just the people's faces that you can't have? 48:31.680 --> 48:34.740 Or, like, even if you have some guy's elbows, that's no good. 48:35.700 --> 48:37.460 I think you can get elbows and stuff. 48:38.320 --> 48:40.480 It's just so they're not recognizable. 48:40.480 --> 48:48.360 Yeah, okay, I mean, like, maybe, okay, because I was thinking, like, maybe if, you know, like, those rooms are pretty dark anyway. 48:48.600 --> 48:56.240 So if you had, like, you know, some sort of just, like, sweep shot and, like, blur out whoever you can actually make out a face with. 48:56.480 --> 49:00.620 I guess they can't take that chance and have people having their own cameras. 49:01.640 --> 49:04.100 Well, that's interesting because you can walk around with a film camera. 49:05.660 --> 49:06.280 Yeah, right? 49:06.280 --> 49:09.880 A still camera and just take all the pictures you want and put them up on Flickr. 49:10.480 --> 49:11.000 Yeah. 49:11.240 --> 49:11.480 Yeah. 49:12.260 --> 49:20.860 Well, but I think the point is that if you have a camcorder and, you know, you, like, go and say, here, I'm doing documentary. 49:21.320 --> 49:28.240 And you have, like, a press pass and everything that they assume it's going to go somewhere, like, public and not in, like, a private collection. 49:28.660 --> 49:34.420 So there's probably something, like, wrong with that if you, like, air it on TV or, like, release it to the public or something. 49:34.420 --> 49:36.040 Mm-hmm. 49:36.220 --> 49:36.440 Yeah. 49:39.440 --> 49:41.220 Well, when are you releasing this documentary? 49:43.120 --> 49:44.240 I have to start editing. 49:44.520 --> 49:50.080 So I'm hopefully – I'm hoping to edit and finish it by, like, before September. 49:50.080 --> 49:52.900 So hopefully I'll have it out before September sometime. 49:54.480 --> 49:58.360 And are you releasing this as a DVD or as a web download or – 49:58.360 --> 49:59.600 I'm going to put it online. 49:59.800 --> 50:05.040 I'm going to – I think, like, I might be submitting it to current.tv where people can vote on it and it goes up. 50:05.100 --> 50:08.900 And then if it actually makes it to the top, it airs on TV. 50:09.480 --> 50:11.000 They basically buy the rights from me, though. 50:11.020 --> 50:13.320 So I'm going to spread it online before I do that. 50:13.320 --> 50:16.740 Well, I know this guy that runs his Hacker Media website. 50:18.120 --> 50:19.840 And you can definitely have it put up on that. 50:22.780 --> 50:24.600 Yeah, I mean, you can spread it everywhere. 50:25.460 --> 50:30.520 You probably shouldn't have said that before actually doing it. 50:35.100 --> 50:39.600 And it's going to be released under, like, a Creative Commons share a like kind of deal? 50:39.700 --> 50:40.020 Yeah. 50:40.780 --> 50:41.680 Yeah, I guess so. 50:41.680 --> 50:46.800 I mean, until the – until the place buys the rights from me if I submit it to them. 50:46.840 --> 50:48.380 And then, I don't know. 50:50.760 --> 50:52.660 Well, maybe you know more about this than I do. 50:53.440 --> 51:01.260 But as an example, which is one of the rare examples of this, like Jason Scott's documentary about the BBSs. 51:02.520 --> 51:04.560 Like, he sells that. 51:04.640 --> 51:08.740 And it's also released under Creative Commons because he owns all the rights to it and he can do it at once. 51:08.740 --> 51:13.200 But he also is putting all the footage up on archive.org that he's shot. 51:13.200 --> 51:18.960 Like, let's say this current TV buys the rights of it from you. 51:18.960 --> 51:24.740 Is that buying the rights of, like, all the video you shot or just how you edited that video together? 51:25.400 --> 51:31.300 So, could you release all your raw video and the installation of it? 51:31.300 --> 51:34.060 I'm not sure about that. 51:34.060 --> 51:35.760 That actually sounds like that might work. 51:37.080 --> 51:40.440 Because they're buying the video that I edited and they're piecing it together. 51:40.840 --> 51:45.660 So, I mean, they're taking it and then just doing whatever they're doing to it with adding credits and everything. 51:45.660 --> 51:48.920 But I think I could probably release the raw footage, yeah. 51:50.340 --> 51:52.060 You should ask Jason Scott. 51:52.460 --> 51:55.300 Jason Scott, if you're listening, call us. 51:55.820 --> 51:56.640 We need to talk. 51:57.500 --> 52:02.240 You know what's actually really funny is I was drunk on Saturday night, I think. 52:02.580 --> 52:04.860 And I see this guy with a Segway. 52:05.800 --> 52:07.800 And so, I asked him if I could write it. 52:08.080 --> 52:09.840 And I started writing that around and around. 52:09.920 --> 52:12.180 Then I got off, asked him again if I could write it. 52:12.180 --> 52:15.100 And I'm having fun because I'm drunk and this thing's just moving me around. 52:15.740 --> 52:17.060 I get off again and I look at him. 52:17.100 --> 52:19.060 I'm like, you look really familiar. 52:19.200 --> 52:21.840 And he goes, oh, I'm Jason Scott of Texas.com. 52:22.340 --> 52:23.540 And it's just really funny. 52:23.620 --> 52:24.860 I took a picture with him and everything. 52:25.900 --> 52:27.640 Did he have a really crazy shirt on? 52:28.840 --> 52:30.400 No, I had a picture with him. 52:30.480 --> 52:32.280 He's just a regular black shirt, I think. 52:33.100 --> 52:33.400 Okay. 52:35.460 --> 52:37.800 He's usually a lot more noticeable with his crazy shirt. 52:42.180 --> 52:43.140 Well, good deal, man. 52:43.280 --> 52:47.420 You're making a documentary on DEF CON and you're putting it up for everyone to watch. 52:48.160 --> 52:48.440 Yep. 52:49.320 --> 52:49.980 Good deal. 52:50.040 --> 52:50.540 Good deal. 52:51.360 --> 52:52.800 I got to get around to editing that. 52:54.680 --> 53:02.220 So, now, when I went, they gave me a CD of all the talks that people had given, you know, their presentations. 53:03.180 --> 53:03.500 Yeah. 53:03.500 --> 53:06.320 And it didn't have everything on it, but it had a bunch of them. 53:07.100 --> 53:08.620 They gave those out this year, I assume. 53:11.640 --> 53:12.360 Oh, what was that? 53:12.480 --> 53:12.580 Sorry. 53:13.460 --> 53:13.680 Yeah. 53:13.680 --> 53:15.040 Oh, I did give it out this year. 53:15.560 --> 53:15.760 Yeah. 53:15.800 --> 53:16.440 They gave them out. 53:16.580 --> 53:16.760 Yeah. 53:16.860 --> 53:20.440 I haven't taken a look at it yet, but, yeah, they passed those out, so. 53:21.480 --> 53:26.360 I was actually looking for Dan Kaminsky's talk, the Black Ops talk. 53:26.660 --> 53:27.960 I could not find it. 53:28.860 --> 53:30.340 I don't know where it is. 53:30.340 --> 53:35.040 It might be on his website or something, but on the CD, it's organized by last name of 53:35.040 --> 53:38.300 the speaker, and his name is definitely not on here. 53:39.000 --> 53:41.720 So, I think there might be some materials missing. 53:42.240 --> 53:49.460 Like, if someone didn't, you know, put his slides up in time before they made the CD, then 53:49.460 --> 53:50.120 it might not be. 53:50.340 --> 53:52.720 But most of the slides from the talk should be here. 53:52.720 --> 53:59.560 So, we'll definitely put that up for anyone, you know, who were interested in some of the 53:59.560 --> 54:03.840 talks that either I mentioned, or if they just, like, looked at the schedule and wanted 54:03.840 --> 54:06.480 to check some stuff out, they can download it. 54:07.500 --> 54:07.940 Yeah. 54:08.140 --> 54:10.440 And we'll have a link to that in the show notes, hopefully. 54:10.440 --> 54:18.080 And as soon as we have a place for it, I'll put a link on the InfoNomicon.org site to wherever 54:18.080 --> 54:19.280 that is so people can find it. 54:21.220 --> 54:28.960 Actually, if I can interrupt and segue for a little bit, I have something I noticed, I 54:28.960 --> 54:32.740 guess, between two years ago and, you know, these past two years. 54:32.740 --> 54:39.040 And, upside down, you said you went to Descon, like, on 2000 or something? 54:39.980 --> 54:41.000 It was Descon 10. 54:41.080 --> 54:42.460 I think it was 2002. 54:43.140 --> 54:43.400 Okay. 54:44.140 --> 54:46.460 So, maybe you can back me up. 54:46.740 --> 54:58.740 But, so up until two years ago, I think the girl-to-guy ratio was, like, probably 99.5, you 54:58.740 --> 55:00.280 know, well, that's not a ratio. 55:00.280 --> 55:03.240 So, let's just go around 99 to 1. 55:04.260 --> 55:08.460 In the last two years, there have definitely been more women at Descon. 55:09.080 --> 55:12.780 And I don't know if that's just me or if you're actually noticing that, too. 55:13.660 --> 55:13.940 Yeah. 55:14.160 --> 55:15.760 I think I noticed that also. 55:15.760 --> 55:21.420 But, the thing is that I actually said this right when I got there, and it slowly came 55:21.420 --> 55:22.860 through as I was going along. 55:23.160 --> 55:25.820 But, or at least I thought it was. 55:25.960 --> 55:26.940 It was about, like, 70. 55:30.280 --> 55:34.000 And then, for the other 25%, like, I don't know. 55:34.800 --> 55:36.380 It seemed like that to me, at least. 55:37.460 --> 55:43.960 Well, what I was talking, what I was talking about is that it's just nice to see more women 55:43.960 --> 55:45.040 getting into technology. 55:45.040 --> 55:45.520 Right, right. 55:46.240 --> 55:48.380 My mind's going in a different direction. 55:48.380 --> 55:53.500 So, somebody's horny and somebody's not. 55:54.460 --> 56:01.840 There are more women, like, presenting at Descon and at Black Hat also, you know, from what 56:01.840 --> 56:02.480 I've seen. 56:02.840 --> 56:05.700 And I guess, you know, I'm just saying I hope that continues. 56:05.700 --> 56:11.700 It's just because, you know, I think we, for some reason, there's always been, like, kind 56:11.700 --> 56:17.480 of an imaginary block or, like, a stigma with, you know, with women and getting into technology. 56:17.700 --> 56:21.040 And so, I'm just saying it's good to see that kind of breaking down. 56:21.040 --> 56:27.480 And the next thing that we have to work on is getting girls on camera because they were 56:27.480 --> 56:28.500 very shy about it. 56:28.500 --> 56:28.900 Yes. 56:29.100 --> 56:29.540 Okay. 56:29.640 --> 56:32.140 I'm calling out all the girls who went to Descon. 56:32.500 --> 56:38.880 We asked about three to four or maybe even more girls to be on camera to be interviewed 56:38.880 --> 56:41.120 because we wanted a female's perspective. 56:41.580 --> 56:43.420 And none of them would do it. 56:43.760 --> 56:45.460 Everyone said they were camera shy. 56:45.680 --> 56:47.120 What is up with that? 56:47.120 --> 56:54.180 Like, yeah, I mean, guys, I think, were supposed to be more camera shy or at least the geeky 56:54.180 --> 56:54.480 ones. 56:54.980 --> 57:01.620 And I don't know what's going on, but next year, I expect to at least interview two women 57:01.620 --> 57:05.260 who are, you know, at Descon doing whatever. 57:08.860 --> 57:10.300 That's definitely a good goal. 57:12.760 --> 57:15.060 If you need me to, I'll dress up like a girl. 57:15.060 --> 57:20.900 Droops, next year, you're going to go to Vegas and you're going to bring Mrs. Droops and 57:20.900 --> 57:21.960 we're going to interview her. 57:22.480 --> 57:23.920 So, you can tell her that now. 57:25.060 --> 57:25.420 Awesome. 57:25.620 --> 57:27.200 I will start prepping her for that. 57:31.360 --> 57:36.120 Yeah, I don't know how much conversation we had to have to get her to help me with the 57:36.120 --> 57:38.120 Phenomenon TV that one time. 57:40.200 --> 57:40.600 Really? 57:40.600 --> 57:45.360 Tell her, tell her she's an icon in the community. 57:45.600 --> 57:51.340 She's like, you know, like a myth, an alleged Droops' wife. 57:51.660 --> 57:54.380 Everyone was asking where Droops' wife was. 57:56.780 --> 57:57.760 That's awesome. 57:58.320 --> 57:59.060 It is. 57:59.060 --> 58:05.140 I mean, I was so, I'm so sad to have to tell them that you guys weren't there. 58:05.320 --> 58:06.600 It just blows my heart. 58:09.960 --> 58:11.000 Oh, Lordy. 58:11.080 --> 58:12.300 My wife's the icon. 58:13.920 --> 58:15.380 You should be proud. 58:15.620 --> 58:16.240 Come on. 58:17.640 --> 58:18.640 What are you thinking? 58:19.500 --> 58:21.020 I'm very excited about it. 58:21.800 --> 58:24.240 I try to bring it up in every conversation that I have. 58:24.240 --> 58:28.380 Perhaps you've met my wife. 58:29.880 --> 58:31.180 Perhaps you've met my wife. 58:31.340 --> 58:34.420 She was the hottest girl there, you know. 58:35.820 --> 58:37.360 You know how I do. 58:38.780 --> 58:39.740 That's how I roll. 58:41.800 --> 58:45.840 Well, hey, Mr. Lote, do you think we have enough time-wise? 58:45.840 --> 58:55.660 On time, we're running at, uh, right around 45, uh, 45 to 15 minutes. 58:57.320 --> 58:57.720 Okay. 58:59.720 --> 59:00.160 Okay. 59:00.380 --> 59:02.140 We might need some more stuff. 59:03.000 --> 59:04.780 Yeah, I think we need to keep talking for a little while. 59:05.200 --> 59:08.040 Did, uh, was there any e-mail for this show? 59:08.880 --> 59:10.440 Are you going to miss with e-mail? 59:10.820 --> 59:11.580 I don't, I don't know. 59:11.700 --> 59:14.240 I haven't gotten in touch with Black Ratchet enough to get the e-mail. 59:14.240 --> 59:15.580 All right. 59:15.660 --> 59:19.860 Well, then we should probably talk for, I guess, uh, whatever, 15 more minutes. 59:20.720 --> 59:21.160 All right. 59:23.600 --> 59:24.080 All right. 59:25.280 --> 59:26.160 There's going to be... 59:29.220 --> 59:30.660 Ask me anything. 59:31.120 --> 59:32.480 Or ask Upside Down anything. 59:33.340 --> 59:33.720 Yep. 59:35.000 --> 59:38.340 So, Upside Down, you, uh, have done a documentary before you did the filming, 59:38.440 --> 59:39.560 and now you're doing one. 59:39.560 --> 59:43.900 Um, like, are you, are you a computer guy, a phone guy, or are you just interested in 59:43.900 --> 59:44.300 the scene? 59:44.360 --> 59:44.980 What's up with you? 59:46.120 --> 59:52.700 Um, I'm more of a computer guy, and then recently I just kind of got into the whole film thing, 59:52.700 --> 59:57.200 and then I haven't been really reading up on anything online, so I'm kind of just, like, 59:57.440 --> 01:00:00.580 flowing with the scene and all that, but I don't know. 01:00:00.700 --> 01:00:02.920 I need to read up on stuff, because I'm falling behind. 01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:06.080 And we all need to read up on stuff, I think. 01:00:08.840 --> 01:00:12.080 It doesn't matter how smart you are, there's always, uh, more stuff to learn. 01:00:12.980 --> 01:00:13.300 Right. 01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:18.400 Um, I'm trying to think of, uh, questions. 01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:21.400 Uh, dumb-dee-dum, more dead air. 01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:25.280 I'm going to have to do a lot of editing. 01:00:25.600 --> 01:00:25.920 Sorry. 01:00:26.260 --> 01:00:28.180 Good thing this show isn't live, huh? 01:00:28.180 --> 01:00:36.840 Well, actually, um, if you don't mind, I have something I would like to talk about 01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:39.600 for maybe three to five minutes. 01:00:40.340 --> 01:00:41.260 Go for it, big guy. 01:00:42.140 --> 01:00:49.740 Okay, um, this other project, well, it's not really a project yet, but some, an idea that 01:00:49.740 --> 01:00:57.280 I've been throwing around with Spank is that I want to do a VINREV mentorship program, and, 01:00:57.280 --> 01:01:04.200 I mean, the way it works is I would, um, we would have people sign up to be mentors, and 01:01:04.200 --> 01:01:09.820 you would kind of, like, list your skill set, and, like, the time you have available to mentor 01:01:09.820 --> 01:01:15.200 someone, and, because, you know, I see a lot of people on the channel always asking stuff, 01:01:15.500 --> 01:01:19.320 you know, people who want to learn about this and that, and I thought it'd be a good idea, 01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:25.620 you know, to get some of the more experienced people involved, and kind of guide the other 01:01:25.620 --> 01:01:31.440 people to learn whatever it is they want to learn, so once we get a list of mentors and 01:01:31.440 --> 01:01:35.760 people who are willing to devote their time to this, then we can have people start applying 01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:40.620 and, like, signing up for stuff, and, you know, I talked to Spank, and he thought it was a 01:01:40.620 --> 01:01:47.220 good idea, but the problem is, I guess, the execution, because you have to, you know, get 01:01:47.220 --> 01:01:51.540 people to do it, first of all, and then once you pair them up, you have to kind of make 01:01:51.540 --> 01:01:58.520 sure that, you know, one guy's been wasting someone else's time or vice versa, so if you 01:01:58.520 --> 01:02:02.500 guys, you know, out there are interested in something like this or you want to be a mentor 01:02:02.500 --> 01:02:08.220 or you want to get mentored, you know, send me an email and kind of just give me some feedback 01:02:08.220 --> 01:02:13.100 so I know what people are thinking, because I would really like to start that up, you know, 01:02:13.100 --> 01:02:20.820 whenever possible, and my email is verbal at gmail.com, easy enough to remember, so just 01:02:20.820 --> 01:02:25.140 kind of give me whatever feedback, you know, if you want to tell me it's a dumb idea and 01:02:25.140 --> 01:02:29.780 I suck or whatever, that's fine, too, but, you know, just send me some email and let me 01:02:29.780 --> 01:02:30.460 know what you think. 01:02:32.820 --> 01:02:34.240 I think that's a great idea. 01:02:37.300 --> 01:02:43.080 You know, there's been talk about doing stuff like that, but, like, that would, you know, 01:02:43.100 --> 01:02:48.460 that would be awesome to have somebody that was always there to help you with something 01:02:48.460 --> 01:02:49.620 specific like that. 01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:51.200 Yeah. 01:02:51.240 --> 01:02:54.180 So when you got stuck, you didn't have to waste all your time trying to figure out an answer. 01:02:55.060 --> 01:03:00.280 Right, because the thing is, like, if you have someone responsible for you, that's much easier 01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:05.120 than, like, if you don't know anything, you know, like, if you have a question and you don't 01:03:05.120 --> 01:03:10.580 really know, like, a specific person, you just kind of go on the channel, it's hit or miss, 01:03:10.580 --> 01:03:10.800 right? 01:03:10.860 --> 01:03:16.220 So if you kind of have someone who's like, okay, he's my responsibility, he or she, and, 01:03:16.220 --> 01:03:20.940 you know, so you can just email and contact them directly, like, that would just make 01:03:20.940 --> 01:03:23.200 the process so much easier and faster, I think. 01:03:24.020 --> 01:03:31.700 You know, like, I think that maybe that's a good idea, but, you know, it's the execution 01:03:31.700 --> 01:03:32.540 that's the problem. 01:03:32.540 --> 01:03:36.260 Well, that would also be a really good motivational factor. 01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:39.660 Like, I'm really bad about self-motivation. 01:03:40.620 --> 01:03:44.000 You know, if I had my druthers, I'd just sit and watch YouTube all day. 01:03:45.160 --> 01:03:49.540 But when I have somebody, like, depending on me or checking up on me, I can actually get 01:03:49.540 --> 01:03:50.160 stuff done. 01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:52.060 Right, right, right. 01:03:54.120 --> 01:03:55.300 That's a really cool idea. 01:03:55.300 --> 01:04:01.940 I mean, when we have enough kind of support and interest in it, I'm just going to, I mean, 01:04:02.040 --> 01:04:06.520 you know, it definitely takes, like, no work on my part, because I'm just going to throw 01:04:06.520 --> 01:04:10.960 up a webpage and be like, sign up, and then the only thing I have to do is match people 01:04:10.960 --> 01:04:16.320 up and kind of, like, check in with them once in a while to see what they're doing and, 01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:19.880 you know, to make sure, like, things are actually happening, you know, so it takes none 01:04:19.880 --> 01:04:20.640 of my time. 01:04:21.200 --> 01:04:24.140 We just need participation from the community, so. 01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:30.940 Well, that's going to be a big theme of next week's show as kind of a little teaser is 01:04:30.940 --> 01:04:32.740 participation from the community. 01:04:33.600 --> 01:04:39.120 And while I have the three of y'all captive, I'd like to start a different conversation. 01:04:40.200 --> 01:04:43.220 And I want to talk about the Hacker Media website for a second. 01:04:43.320 --> 01:04:44.520 I don't know if y'all have read in the forums. 01:04:44.520 --> 01:04:50.400 I'm trying to get a good definition of what needs to be considered Hacker Media for us 01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:51.140 to put on the site. 01:04:52.900 --> 01:04:58.780 And I'm trying not to be the guy that says, this is how it is, and I want to get opinions 01:04:58.780 --> 01:04:59.560 from the community. 01:05:00.940 --> 01:05:07.660 But the way, my personal view of the whole thing, as Hacker Media should be stuff like 01:05:07.660 --> 01:05:15.820 BinRev and, you know, Ninja Night School or whatever shows you have, Gamer Radio, things 01:05:15.820 --> 01:05:16.340 like that. 01:05:16.820 --> 01:05:22.300 And the commercial stuff like Make Magazine, which is frickin' cool, and they have the coolest 01:05:22.300 --> 01:05:27.980 shit, shouldn't be on the Hacker Media site because they're a commercial entity and they 01:05:27.980 --> 01:05:30.200 pay for advertising and they pay for stuff like that. 01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:34.200 And they, you know, have advertising and such like that. 01:05:34.200 --> 01:05:40.620 And I don't want to have their ads on a site that I'm paying for that I don't have, you 01:05:40.620 --> 01:05:41.180 know, ads on. 01:05:41.240 --> 01:05:43.320 I don't think Hacker Media should be about making the money. 01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:47.320 I think it should be about, you know, sharing the information. 01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:51.140 Like Iron Geek has ads on his site. 01:05:52.240 --> 01:05:57.420 And I'm not going to say he's not Hacker Media because he's doing it because he loves doing 01:05:57.420 --> 01:05:57.600 it. 01:05:57.680 --> 01:05:59.820 It's not because he's getting like a fat paycheck for it. 01:05:59.820 --> 01:06:04.820 What are y'all, what are y'all's views on stuff like this? 01:06:06.820 --> 01:06:10.300 So is the question what should be on the Hacker Media website? 01:06:11.340 --> 01:06:15.160 Yeah, like Security Now has advertising in their RSS feed. 01:06:15.860 --> 01:06:19.920 And if you haven't seen the new site, it's completely RSS driven. 01:06:20.060 --> 01:06:22.060 So no one has to log in and upload a show. 01:06:22.060 --> 01:06:30.340 Oh, so do you mean just like in terms of whether we should have, I mean, sorry, whether you 01:06:30.340 --> 01:06:34.900 should have advertising or like the content of the shows that you put on Hacker Media? 01:06:35.980 --> 01:06:38.980 Well, like let's take Ninja Night School, for example. 01:06:39.580 --> 01:06:45.940 It's not technical content at all, but it's really interesting to, you know, like the mindset. 01:06:45.940 --> 01:06:50.020 And Low Tech Mystic's not making money off of it. 01:06:50.040 --> 01:06:53.900 He's doing it because he loves doing it and sharing, you know, trying to open people's 01:06:53.900 --> 01:06:54.440 minds up. 01:06:55.260 --> 01:06:56.680 And I think that's Hacker Media. 01:06:58.080 --> 01:07:02.000 So, I mean, this is kind of, you know, what I think. 01:07:02.100 --> 01:07:05.180 And it might be too broad or loose for some people. 01:07:05.180 --> 01:07:12.360 But it's like, you know, Hacker Media, obviously, you know, the name defines what it is. 01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:19.580 And it kind of comes back to the question, like, what do we consider to, you know, relate 01:07:19.580 --> 01:07:21.140 to, is related to hacking? 01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:27.160 You know, so obviously some people will be like, blah, blah. 01:07:27.520 --> 01:07:32.160 But at the same time, you know, like, for example, if you need to go to DEF CON, you see 01:07:32.160 --> 01:07:37.220 a lot of things that are not kind of related directly to hacking, like lockpicking. 01:07:38.040 --> 01:07:43.560 And, you know, like, for example, what if someone wants to do a podcast on, you know, lockpicking? 01:07:43.740 --> 01:07:44.720 Like, are you going to tell them no? 01:07:45.120 --> 01:07:52.060 So I think that, you know, if it were me, I would kind of let, you know, all the shows 01:07:52.060 --> 01:07:58.360 that are, like you said, in the same mindset, same hacker mindset, you know, whether it is 01:07:58.360 --> 01:08:04.440 non-technical or not, but, you know, just have it be in there because it's the same mentality 01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:08.780 and it's like the same group of people who do these kind of things. 01:08:09.740 --> 01:08:17.840 And as for ads or not, like, it's cool if you can keep doing this, you know, having no 01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:19.560 ads and all that unknown stuff. 01:08:19.560 --> 01:08:25.380 But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, putting up a site and running it requires 01:08:25.380 --> 01:08:26.140 time and money. 01:08:26.820 --> 01:08:34.180 So I think that, right, so I think that if, you know, if you need to have ads to keep the 01:08:34.180 --> 01:08:36.600 site open, then you should do it. 01:08:36.840 --> 01:08:38.000 Like, you know, that's what I would say. 01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:41.320 But if it's your job, it's totally different. 01:08:42.380 --> 01:08:42.640 Right. 01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:46.180 Like, if you have a business and that's one of the things you produce in your business 01:08:46.180 --> 01:08:52.400 is something that's interesting to hackers, it's not really hacker media because that's 01:08:52.400 --> 01:08:53.320 your business now. 01:08:53.460 --> 01:08:56.060 It's not the love of it. 01:08:56.300 --> 01:09:01.660 Like, if the Linux Link Tech Show got a sponsor and every show they opened with, you know, 01:09:01.660 --> 01:09:06.260 we're sponsored by Jimbo's computer store, that's cool because it's still four guys in 01:09:06.260 --> 01:09:09.620 a basement doing a show about Linux. 01:09:09.620 --> 01:09:14.040 And it's not because they're getting paid to do it, it's because they love Linux and 01:09:14.040 --> 01:09:17.580 they love promoting it and talking about it. 01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:19.160 Right. 01:09:19.300 --> 01:09:20.780 That would be considered hacker media. 01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:22.120 Right. 01:09:22.360 --> 01:09:22.600 Right. 01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:27.680 Like, for you, like, you know, I know that you're doing it because you love it and you 01:09:27.680 --> 01:09:29.860 want to kind of put something out for the community. 01:09:30.260 --> 01:09:35.280 So I think that, you know, if you needed to put ads on hacker media for whatever reason, 01:09:35.760 --> 01:09:38.040 you know, I personally think it'd be okay. 01:09:38.040 --> 01:09:41.600 I mean, I think all of your listeners, you know, to all the hacker media shows would 01:09:41.600 --> 01:09:42.380 understand, too. 01:09:42.480 --> 01:09:45.340 And, you know, if they don't, then, like, I say, fuck it. 01:09:46.360 --> 01:09:47.040 Do what you need to do. 01:09:47.040 --> 01:09:48.900 Well, I'm going to try to keep ads off the site. 01:09:49.820 --> 01:09:50.060 Right. 01:09:50.060 --> 01:09:52.360 Because I don't want to make money off of other people's work. 01:09:53.620 --> 01:09:54.240 Right, right. 01:09:55.040 --> 01:09:59.380 But if I had the show, like, if I brought back Imponomicon Radio and had ads on that 01:09:59.380 --> 01:10:02.660 site, that would be okay because that's paying for the site. 01:10:03.660 --> 01:10:04.020 Right. 01:10:04.020 --> 01:10:06.100 Okay. 01:10:06.740 --> 01:10:07.860 What about you, upside down? 01:10:08.840 --> 01:10:12.820 I agree with everything that Verbo just said and that you said. 01:10:13.640 --> 01:10:18.040 And I totally understand what you're saying about the whole, if they go mainstream in their 01:10:18.040 --> 01:10:22.520 business, like, that's just, you know, it kind of just moves away from the scene if you 01:10:22.520 --> 01:10:23.000 think about it. 01:10:23.060 --> 01:10:23.840 I mean, I don't know. 01:10:23.980 --> 01:10:27.620 Because just like you were saying, people are doing it because they love doing it, not 01:10:27.620 --> 01:10:29.000 because they're getting paid to do it. 01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:32.180 But, yeah, I totally agree with that. 01:10:32.320 --> 01:10:34.080 I mean, that's how I think it should be. 01:10:34.220 --> 01:10:36.740 I mean, everything you guys just said was totally on. 01:10:38.240 --> 01:10:43.660 Well, as soon as the stinky dog sets up the DNS port, which you went to bed before you 01:10:43.660 --> 01:10:49.160 did it tonight because he was sleepy from DEFCON, and the new Hacker Media site will be up. 01:10:49.340 --> 01:10:51.880 Mr. Yel Sab actually did all the work. 01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:57.580 I mean, I've just been really busy and slow, and I apologize to everyone for not having 01:10:57.580 --> 01:10:58.420 the new stuff up. 01:10:59.560 --> 01:11:05.980 But if you want to see it right now, you can go to binrev.com slash the little squiggly 01:11:05.980 --> 01:11:08.380 H-media, and you can see the new site. 01:11:08.480 --> 01:11:09.880 It's really freaking slick. 01:11:11.160 --> 01:11:16.120 And hopefully everyone will be good in their RSS feeds and not screw with it, because it's 01:11:16.120 --> 01:11:17.380 completely driven off of that. 01:11:17.380 --> 01:11:19.080 So you always have the latest information. 01:11:21.060 --> 01:11:26.280 And there's no more comments on the website, maybe. 01:11:27.500 --> 01:11:31.620 And we're trying to direct all that to the binrev forums, where we have a whole bunch more 01:11:31.620 --> 01:11:34.460 people and a captive audience kind of to discuss the shows. 01:11:36.440 --> 01:11:40.460 And if anybody wants to be on Hacker Media, just contact me. 01:11:40.580 --> 01:11:41.940 It's droops at Gmail for right now. 01:11:41.940 --> 01:11:44.900 We're going to set up one for the admin at Hacker Media. 01:11:45.960 --> 01:11:48.480 But tell me, and we'll put it up there. 01:11:49.020 --> 01:11:50.780 And you don't have to be technical content. 01:11:51.320 --> 01:11:54.720 You just have to be something that's hackery. 01:11:56.080 --> 01:11:56.340 I don't know. 01:11:56.360 --> 01:11:56.980 Is that a real word? 01:11:58.700 --> 01:12:00.540 I think you made up a new word. 01:12:03.040 --> 01:12:03.360 Sweet. 01:12:05.280 --> 01:12:08.160 And I think that's probably going to be a show for right now. 01:12:08.220 --> 01:12:09.120 Is that good, Mr. Low Tech? 01:12:09.780 --> 01:12:10.100 Yeah. 01:12:10.100 --> 01:12:11.120 We're there on time. 01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:13.220 Anybody want to make any shouts? 01:12:14.160 --> 01:12:19.780 You should change the Hacker Media slogan to All Things Hackery. 01:12:20.720 --> 01:12:21.940 I will do that tonight. 01:12:24.320 --> 01:12:25.120 All right. 01:12:25.580 --> 01:12:26.520 Yeah, shouts. 01:12:26.520 --> 01:12:32.900 I just want to give a shout to Tom and Tio, because if I don't, they'll probably kill me. 01:12:32.900 --> 01:12:44.320 And Tom also wanted me to say that he's starting a campaign for a donation fund, you know, for him to go to DEF CON next year, because he lives in Norway. 01:12:44.320 --> 01:12:51.300 And it takes him, like, you know, like $3 million and, like, 10 days to come to Las Vegas from there. 01:12:52.040 --> 01:12:52.740 And a steamship. 01:12:53.500 --> 01:12:53.920 Yeah. 01:12:54.920 --> 01:13:04.760 Actually, he's going to have to take a spaceship to the new moon base and then get, you know, the transit from there to California. 01:13:04.760 --> 01:13:10.920 I was at the moon base last month. 01:13:11.140 --> 01:13:12.160 It's really nice. 01:13:12.280 --> 01:13:13.200 They finished up the construction. 01:13:13.200 --> 01:13:13.520 Really? 01:13:14.020 --> 01:13:15.620 Do they see the floor? 01:13:15.620 --> 01:13:19.460 Oh, the floors, the exquisite, and the ceilings. 01:13:20.180 --> 01:13:21.160 I've got pictures. 01:13:21.380 --> 01:13:22.560 I'll email them to you. 01:13:22.740 --> 01:13:25.040 Do they have the carbonation in the Coke machines right? 01:13:26.540 --> 01:13:27.520 It's getting there. 01:13:27.580 --> 01:13:28.340 It's getting there. 01:13:30.060 --> 01:13:31.260 Put some on the site. 01:13:31.340 --> 01:13:32.480 I would love to see it. 01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:35.380 Yeah, I'm scheduled to go up, like, six months, I tell. 01:13:36.020 --> 01:13:36.620 Good times. 01:13:37.640 --> 01:13:43.360 What's interesting about the moon base, or the whatever, is that it's actually completely wrong on Apple computers. 01:13:45.620 --> 01:13:46.340 It's crazy. 01:13:47.940 --> 01:13:48.420 Yeah. 01:13:48.740 --> 01:13:49.520 Wait, what? 01:13:50.420 --> 01:13:52.020 What's wrong on Apple computers? 01:13:54.060 --> 01:13:55.880 No, no, I love an Apple computer. 01:13:56.640 --> 01:13:57.900 What are you talking about? 01:13:57.980 --> 01:13:59.100 I'm so confused. 01:14:00.260 --> 01:14:02.180 You just have to listen to the show and figure it out. 01:14:02.680 --> 01:14:03.540 How about you, upside down? 01:14:04.740 --> 01:14:05.180 Shouts? 01:14:05.840 --> 01:14:06.280 Yes. 01:14:07.140 --> 01:14:07.500 Okay. 01:14:09.320 --> 01:14:15.340 I'd like to give a shout to MC Router from Leap Geek Beat for letting me use their music in the documentary. 01:14:16.020 --> 01:14:17.640 Which I'll be doing soon. 01:14:18.020 --> 01:14:21.080 And just everyone who helped and allowed me to film them. 01:14:21.380 --> 01:14:22.940 So, that's pretty much it. 01:14:24.460 --> 01:14:24.860 Awesome. 01:14:25.120 --> 01:14:26.220 What about you, Mr. Low Tech? 01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:34.260 Oh, I just want to give a shout out to Bitbiter and all my buddies that I met last night down at the moon base. 01:14:34.460 --> 01:14:35.420 You know, rocking times. 01:14:36.580 --> 01:14:36.980 Sweet. 01:14:37.660 --> 01:14:43.480 I want to say a special thank you to Mr. Yeltsav for doing a kick-ass job on the Hacker Media site. 01:14:44.060 --> 01:14:45.060 I can't say it enough. 01:14:45.140 --> 01:14:45.720 It's awesome. 01:14:46.460 --> 01:14:52.920 And if you peruse the HTML code and the PHP and whatever, he wrote all that by hand. 01:14:53.660 --> 01:14:55.560 Like, I just edited it in just a tiny little fraction. 01:14:56.300 --> 01:14:57.980 But, like, he is hardcore. 01:14:58.900 --> 01:14:59.640 It's awesome. 01:14:59.900 --> 01:15:05.100 And if you look in it, you'll find a reference to another website that's going to be announced next week. 01:15:05.100 --> 01:15:08.580 That we're currently working on, kind of a sister site for Hacker Media. 01:15:10.020 --> 01:15:16.220 And I want to say thank you to Mr. Petrillo for doing TWAT Radio for so long and making sure it was up every day. 01:15:16.900 --> 01:15:19.780 And to Mr. Enigma, I hope you can do as good of a job as he did. 01:15:20.420 --> 01:15:22.100 And for taking over on TWAT. 01:15:24.820 --> 01:15:25.600 On the show. 01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:27.320 I really appreciate it. 01:15:27.460 --> 01:15:28.760 We're kind of in a bind. 01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:32.460 And you all both came to the rescue and did a wonderful job on the show. 01:15:34.100 --> 01:15:35.260 No problem. 01:15:36.320 --> 01:15:37.060 Good deal. 01:15:38.120 --> 01:15:38.440 Yes. 01:15:38.600 --> 01:15:40.540 You're going to be on every week from now on. 01:15:40.580 --> 01:15:40.960 Don't worry. 01:15:44.020 --> 01:15:44.460 Nice. 01:15:44.620 --> 01:15:46.080 I'll be looking forward to that. 01:15:46.280 --> 01:15:47.640 Just no live shows. 01:15:49.200 --> 01:15:53.680 It actually took us three hours to record this. 01:15:54.440 --> 01:15:54.960 Oh, wow. 01:15:54.960 --> 01:15:55.660 I hope you did. 01:15:56.600 --> 01:15:57.040 No. 01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:04.980 Anyway, well, I think that's a good night from all of us here at Binary Revolution Radio. 01:16:06.100 --> 01:16:08.480 And why don't you two do the closing? 01:16:10.320 --> 01:16:10.840 Okay. 01:16:10.940 --> 01:16:12.520 We'll see you again next time. 01:16:12.960 --> 01:16:13.840 Same hack time. 01:16:15.180 --> 01:16:16.040 Same hack channel. 01:16:18.040 --> 01:16:23.180 And our closing music tonight is the Spin Doctors singing Little Miss Can't Be Wrong. 01:16:23.180 --> 01:16:27.620 And I know you're saying, oh, no, that's not independent media or whatever. 01:16:27.980 --> 01:16:30.260 But it's actually up on archive.org. 01:16:30.340 --> 01:16:31.700 It's recorded from a live show. 01:16:32.020 --> 01:16:34.960 And there's lots of really good stuff you can find on archive.org. 01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:36.740 And that's not available. 01:16:50.780 --> 01:16:51.420 We'll be right back. 01:16:51.420 --> 01:16:52.560 So, we'll be right back. 01:16:52.560 --> 01:16:54.560 So what? 01:16:56.560 --> 01:16:59.560 Been a whole lot easier since the bitch left town 01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:04.560 I've been a whole lot happier but I miss a night 01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:08.560 Don't be upstairs, only time to show it 01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:11.560 I'm walking in the back door and I'm throwing down 01:17:11.560 --> 01:17:13.560 I've been out of my head 01:17:13.560 --> 01:17:17.560 She's a whole lot happier but I miss a night 01:17:17.560 --> 01:17:20.560 She won't run down near the streets 01:17:20.560 --> 01:17:22.560 He won't run wow 01:17:26.560 --> 01:17:27.560 Been a whole lot easier since the bitches left town 01:17:27.560 --> 01:17:28.560 It's your dreams, in a whole space chaos 01:17:42.560 --> 01:17:44.560 It's what they call you 01:17:44.560 --> 01:17:48.560 He's looking in the one that is, at rock chase 01:17:48.560 --> 01:17:50.560 Woo! 01:18:04.560 --> 01:18:08.560 I'm a baby, I'm a T-H-O, feelin' y'all an engine 01:18:08.560 --> 01:18:12.560 What do you think you've got to take the track and run around? 01:18:12.560 --> 01:18:16.560 You just sound loud, I'm a nice adventure, but you just 01:18:16.560 --> 01:18:20.600 don't want to bring the tune to the bonnet, 01:18:20.600 --> 01:18:24.600 I'm a job, I'm a job, I'm a job, I'm a job, I'm a job! 01:18:24.600 --> 01:18:28.600 You just can't ride around! 01:18:28.600 --> 01:18:32.600 Maybe you should've been acceptor on you, 01:18:32.600 --> 01:18:36.600 and get to the end of all the things I've am all of them! 01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:40.740 GWEN può Soleil ROT 01:18:40.740 --> 01:18:44.800 getting lifeless, unquote! 01:18:44.800 --> 01:19:14.780 I can't remember how I can tell you, I can tell you, I can tell you, oh, you can tell me, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you. 01:19:14.800 --> 01:19:44.780 I can tell you, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you, oh, I can tell you. 01:19:44.780 --> 01:19:51.420 We'll just go home to get you another one with LXT 01:19:54.840 --> 01:20:00.220 We'll just do no 01:20:00.220 --> 01:20:30.200 We'll be right back. 01:20:30.220 --> 01:21:00.200 We'll be right back. 01:21:00.220 --> 01:21:30.200 We'll be right back. 01:21:30.220 --> 01:21:31.500 We'll see you next time. 01:21:31.860 --> 01:21:33.060 Same hack time. 01:21:34.440 --> 01:21:35.820 And then you say same hack time? 01:21:38.060 --> 01:21:38.460 Okay. 01:21:38.580 --> 01:21:40.100 Do you even listen to the show? 01:21:40.900 --> 01:21:41.440 Yeah, dude. 01:21:41.520 --> 01:21:42.020 I listened to it. 01:21:42.060 --> 01:21:43.300 I haven't listened to it in a little while. 01:21:43.460 --> 01:21:44.760 Like, maybe two weeks or something. 01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:46.320 You all are too old. 01:21:47.300 --> 01:21:47.820 Okay. 01:21:48.720 --> 01:21:50.620 We'll see you again next time. 01:21:52.140 --> 01:21:53.900 Are you doing it or am I doing it? 01:21:56.420 --> 01:21:56.860 Wait. 01:21:57.300 --> 01:21:59.380 Am I doing it at the beginning or are you doing the beginning? 01:21:59.380 --> 01:22:02.540 Oh, my God. 01:22:05.660 --> 01:22:06.800 Upside down, you start. 01:22:07.600 --> 01:22:07.960 Okay. 01:22:10.300 --> 01:22:11.780 We'll see you next time. 01:22:11.780 --> 01:22:17.120 Okay, bring it back. 01:22:17.260 --> 01:22:17.760 Bring it back. 01:22:17.820 --> 01:22:18.080 Okay. 01:22:18.860 --> 01:22:19.340 Okay. 01:22:19.500 --> 01:22:19.680 Okay. 01:22:20.200 --> 01:22:20.980 I'll start. 01:22:22.580 --> 01:22:23.060 Okay. 01:22:23.400 --> 01:22:24.040 I'm ready. 01:22:24.380 --> 01:22:24.560 Okay. 01:22:25.040 --> 01:22:25.360 All right. 01:22:25.900 --> 01:22:26.880 We'll see you next. 01:22:26.880 --> 01:22:31.980 Oh, my God. 01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:33.140 You're wasting so much pain. 01:22:34.360 --> 01:22:34.720 Okay. 01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:35.600 We're going first. 01:22:36.020 --> 01:22:36.920 I'll go first. 01:22:38.060 --> 01:22:38.420 Okay. 01:22:40.420 --> 01:22:40.860 Okay. 01:22:40.860 --> 01:22:41.500 Okay. 01:22:41.880 --> 01:22:42.760 Okay.