WEBVTT

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This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.

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I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you

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and a fag pwned.

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In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold.

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I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.

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On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.

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In a flash, I'll screw you on burning Dreamcast. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle.

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Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.

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I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.

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Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.

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You feel that rattle in your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones.

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And NASDAQ leaves your fight on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crudents.

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Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIPs, SIPs.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode number 165.

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I am StankDawg, joining you again this week, September 19th, 2006.

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Another Tuesday filled with hacking goodness.

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And an episode that started almost like a huddle in a football game,

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but I guess that's some behind-the-scenes jokes for my co-host and I this week.

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Savant, welcome back to the show, my friend.

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Hey, man, thanks for having me. Good to be here.

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And this show is going to be, I think, I don't know,

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I'm gonna try not to go way, way, way off the handle,

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but you all know I'm going to fail.

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So I'm just gonna pre-warn you that I'm probably,

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this episode will have naughty language.

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It is rated TVMA or whatever the hell.

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Let's see, if we were a television show, it would be TVMA.

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If it was a movie, probably be R.

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I don't think, well, I might be X.

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It depends on if I take my pants off or not.

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You haven't yet?

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Not yet.

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Crap, I thought I put that in the show notes.

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We always do the show pantsless.

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All right, give me two seconds.

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Crap, all right.

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Okay, we're good.

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We didn't hear the zip.

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It's not sexy if we don't hear the zip.

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Okay, hold on.

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Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

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All right, now we're locking through Daughters.

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It's rated X.

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Bow chicka bow wow.

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All right.

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Actually, holy, I just realized we're only four episodes away from episode 169.

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How perverse, how perverse am I?

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Where's my mind?

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Well, anyway, let's stick to the hacking topics this week

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and save the prawn for a future episode.

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Let's see.

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Housekeeping this week.

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A couple things, actually.

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First of all, Dock Droppers.

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Dock Droppers is currently being upgraded.

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We are trying to upgrade the Media Wiki to the newest version.

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Set it up in a little test area so that we can bang away at it

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and make sure that it's stable and all that good stuff.

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But in the process, we broke Dock Droppers.

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So right now, the site is readable.

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It's up and works and everything.

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But the registration, login type things are disabled.

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And adding new documents is currently not working either.

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I think we fucksored the database just a little bit.

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So we are in the process of working on that.

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So bear with us a little bit there.

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And let's see.

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The other thing I had is that, oh, yes.

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A big, actually, this is something that's been a problem for us

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for like the last month or more.

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Somehow we got flagged.

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Actually, this has been several months.

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But one particular one's been dragging on for several months.

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Most of them we got addressed earlier.

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And that is the fact that we got picked up as a spam relay

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and added to a bunch of these different spammer lists.

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And what happens when that happens is mail servers across the global interweb

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now check this spam list or these multiple, one of these many

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or many of these spam lists to see if we are a known spammer.

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And if so, we'll block email from us.

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And somehow we got listed onto those damn things.

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So we went through the process of having ourselves removed.

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Several of them.

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It was a pretty straightforward process, pretty easy.

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But one particular one, and I think it was Spam House, H-A-U-S,

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I think was the one we were having problems with,

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was not making it easy for us to get off of their list.

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When you try to get off – the problem is not even with us.

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The problem is – and you know what, Samant, I'm sure you know a lot about this.

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I'm sure you've seen this a lot too.

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But our hosting company has a different name for our server.

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It gives us one of those random, you know, 617.us.whatever that they call the server.

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And we're – you know, the binrev.net server is using the same IP address.

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It's in their IP address block range.

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And if anything –

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When it does the reverse lookup.

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Yeah, and if anything does the reverse lookup on there, and they have us listed as that site,

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and that's why they've blocked us because it's seeing two different things

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and thinks that we're spoofing and all kinds of weird stuff that's – yeah, I'm not going to go into here.

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But the problem with that is that when we go in and try to email the confirmation message

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to prove that we're really not a spammer, it goes to that weird b1742bingo.us address, which is not us.

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So we can't get the confirmation email to verify and reply to, et cetera, et cetera.

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So tried to work with our hosting company about that, and they were not responsive.

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So we had to do a little hackery, and when I say we, I mean Nick84 saving the day once again.

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That guy is so great, by the way.

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We were – I was talking to Nick recently, and it's – I had – it was – it's kind of shocking

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how long we've actually known each other.

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So Nick has always been a good friend of the show, so I'm going to give early shouts out to Nick84

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for helping us out with that particular problem as well as many, many others.

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So I guess that is it.

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Nick, did you have anything you wanted to talk about in housekeeping?

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I know it's kind of not exactly appropriate, I guess.

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When is the last time you were on the show?

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You were on the show with Black Ratchet.

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I know for – you did the DEF CON wrap-up.

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In Madison, I did the post-HOPE wrap-up.

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Or the HOPE – I'm sorry, the HOPE wrap-up, right?

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Uh-huh.

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And how long ago was that?

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Well, gosh, let's see.

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So I want to say about a month and a half ago, maybe two months ago.

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All right, man.

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We've got to get you on the show more often.

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How about that?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I'd love that.

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All right.

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Well, let's go ahead and end the housekeeping and slip into a little e-mail.

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All right.

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Our first e-mail this week.

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Damn it.

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I said all right again.

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That's my – I always start the show off saying all right.

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And most people don't know that because I edited it out, but it's like this bad habit.

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And now I'm coming into the e-mail saying all right.

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So all right, I suck at this radio thing after our fourth season we're into now, and I still

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don't have this thing mastered.

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But hey, what are you going to do?

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Hey, it's free.

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Don't complain, fuckers.

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All right.

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I'm grateful.

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Do you realize I just had a conversation with myself?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I was going to let you go with it.

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I was going to see if you're going to start arguing.

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I am so mental.

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I don't even know where to begin.

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I'm having a lack of sleep.

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I have terrible hacker's insomnia, which I've discussed many times, and I'm low on sleep.

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But anyway, e-mail.

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First thing, we had quite a bit of e-mail from last week's episode.

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We did our – again, I thought last week was a really cool week.

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We did a lot of BinRev firsts last week.

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We did our first ever back-to-back episodes, doubleheader, two episodes in a row, three

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full hours of hacking goodness.

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And I don't know.

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I think that was my – that was like a Barney Fife voice I did there, but –

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Little Hattie Grenadio, everybody.

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How we doing?

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Oh, what do you think?

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That's like Barney Fife meets Dean Cinture.

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I do the worst impressions, but you know what?

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I never stop.

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I keep doing them anyway.

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I don't care.

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Whatever.

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Go away, Andy.

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Oh, wait a minute.

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That wasn't even – that wasn't even Gomer.

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That was the other guy.

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That was Gomer.

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Wait a minute here.

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He's got to ruin some boxes.

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How did I get Gomer Pyle into fucking Andy Griffith's show?

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How does the fucking – he get into Mayberry.

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I don't know where the hell I'm going on anyway.

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So back-to-back episodes, which was really cool.

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It's the first time we'd ever done that, so that was pretty interesting.

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Also, the first time that we actually had a co-host live in studio there with me.

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Normally, we're on the phone like we are now because we have that whole – I don't know how many thousand miles in between you and I.

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What are we talking about, like three?

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I think we're completely as far apart as we can humanly be, almost, in the continental United States.

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Almost.

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Technology.

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Exactly.

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Isn't it wonderful?

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Yeah.

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So that was also kind of cool last week and had to do a little sound adjustments on the fly.

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So hopefully, we are back to normal this week on the sound quality.

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I just want to thank you real fast for working with me on my Pacific Coast schedule.

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I know it's a little later over there and I appreciate you working on that to get me on the show.

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Are you kidding?

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I'd love to have you on the show.

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And I knew for this particular topic that we both have a good time talking about this because it's something we're both pretty familiar with.

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Plus, you know, the thing is I'm old now.

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I just had the birthday last week, so I'm kind of getting up there in age.

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So I don't know if I can stay up late with you young folks anymore.

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Thanks.

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Are you serious?

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You're repeating yourself, man.

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Got to keep those things in mind.

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So I'm not repeating myself.

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My memory is perfectly fine.

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No, you're not.

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I've been fucking with you.

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I know.

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So I had a birthday last week and now I'm not quite able to stay up as long as I used to.

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Wait a minute.

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Did I just say that?

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All right.

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So the jokes are getting pretty bad here, so let's move on with the show.

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God, if the jokes get any worse, people might mistake me for Black Ratchet.

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Oh, oh, no, he didn't.

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Oh, no, he did not.

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Just, yes, I did.

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Yes, I did.

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Of course, that makes you strong.

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You realize that, right?

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Yeah.

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It's the East Coast, West Coast.

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East Coast, West Coast.

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The same dynamic we got going on there.

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All right.

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So anyway, so we had a lot of email feedback from that doubleheader episode, so we're only

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going to do some of those tonight.

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So if you don't hear your email on the episode tonight, probably be on next week's episode

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where we're hoping to get Verbal back on the show.

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And some of those specifically talked about topics that I think would be better, that he

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could better address because they're follow-ups to his episode and to Quine's episode.

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So bear with us, and we'll get caught up on emails.

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Second of all, and all right, I'm already a little sleep-happy, punch-drunk, whatever

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you want to call it tonight anyway, but I've got to throw a rant on top of this because

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I'm really kind of pissed off about this one particular email.

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So, Savant, you might want to pull the phone away from your ear a second.

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I'm actually going to slide back away from the microphone because I might start getting

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pissed off about this.

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I'm already pissed off about this.

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All right, so here's the thing.

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We have our standard email address, radioatbinrev.com, as you heard in the theme song, where people

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should send feedback for the show, you know, or ideally feedback on previous episodes, suggestions

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for the show, comments, any ideas you may want us to get out there, you know, content, specifically

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things related to the show.

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Well, I've been getting this one piece of email.

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I'm calling it spam.

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It's not really like a mass mailing kind of spam that goes out to a lot of people, but

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it's still spam, in my opinion, anyway, and please let me explain.

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It's an email from this company, and I'm going to keep them nameless because you'll see why.

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They want this publicity or whatever.

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So I'm going to keep them nameless.

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But basically, they send me this email wanting me to review and possibly purchase, I'm sure,

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their piece of IPTV hardware.

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So basically, it's one of those network appliance type deals, customized for streaming internet

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television shows or something along those lines.

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So I'm calling it spam because they don't personalize it to me.

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If this was like something they sent specifically to me and said, listen, we'll send you one to

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review on the show.

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We really want your opinion.

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We listen to the show.

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We're fans of the show.

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Whatever.

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It's not like that.

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It's canned, not obviously, but I suspect what they've done is they've gone out and

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got a bunch of email addresses of internet TV shows, such as Hack TV, for example, if

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we want to call that an internet TV show.

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I don't like all these buzzwords and definitions either.

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But I think they went out there and got a list of addresses of people that run these

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kind of shows and podcasts more specifically, et cetera, et cetera, and gathered them all up

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and started emailing all these individual people thinking, I don't know, what is your, I

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mean, I don't know that this is like, what's that word they call it, advertising?

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Targeted?

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No, not subliminal, but viral, viral marketing.

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I don't think it's a viral marketing thing.

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I think they're just targeting.

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I think that is a better word.

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Targeted.

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They're not targeted by a bot or automatically.

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I think they're manually targeted emails or they're hitting people that they think are

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more likely to be interested in this, people running an internet television show.

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So whether it's done manually or it's done by some script, some bot out there farming,

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collecting a bunch of email addresses and mass mailing it out, hoping for a .05% response

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rate, or whether they're targeting to people manually and sending it out.

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I've gotten it on multiple occasions, also a symptom of spam, also a definition of spam.

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Multiple times I've gotten, they're not always the same.

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They're a little bit different every time.

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Sometimes it's wanting to let me know that they've released this new thing.

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Sometimes it's wanting to do or want me to do a review of the thing for the show, for

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a show.

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And they can send it out to the show because if they're targeting to people who have shows,

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they can get away with that.

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So it's never stank.

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We want you to review this on BinRev Radio.

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It's, hey, insert name here.

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We were wondering if you would review this on your show, quote unquote your show.

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So it's kind of general, but it's kind of targeted.

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Am I making any sense at all?

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Yeah, you make perfect sense.

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I'm rambling a little bit.

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Well, all right, here's the thing that just pisses me off, quite frankly.

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Do they not know what this show's about?

15:08.760 --> 15:10.880
Do they not know what the fuck Hack TV is?

15:11.720 --> 15:15.840
I mean, is Hack TV, I mean, do they really think that Hack TV is who they want to fucking

15:15.840 --> 15:16.700
advertise to?

15:17.480 --> 15:18.900
Are we about advertising?

15:19.040 --> 15:22.620
Have we ever been about advertising anything like this?

15:22.660 --> 15:23.380
I mean, I'll review.

15:23.380 --> 15:29.060
If people want to send me something because they want to hear an honest opinion, and I

15:29.060 --> 15:33.580
got to take a little sip of drink here because I'm straining my throat, if they really want

15:33.580 --> 15:35.740
me to review something, I will be glad to.

15:35.800 --> 15:39.860
If you want to send me one, I will review it, or I will have one of the other guys in

15:39.860 --> 15:43.880
DDP, will all of us get together, or anybody, you know, will do some reviews of it.

15:44.040 --> 15:45.660
We'll give an honest review of it.

15:46.300 --> 15:47.920
If it sucks, we're going to say it sucks.

15:47.980 --> 15:51.520
If you're confident enough, you want to take that risk, sure, send it to me.

15:51.520 --> 15:55.140
But I don't think they're going to send me one of these to review.

15:56.120 --> 16:03.560
Keep in mind, this is Hack TV, this is Hack Radio, Binary Revolution Radio, DDP Hack Radio,

16:03.960 --> 16:04.320
whatever.

16:04.980 --> 16:06.880
They want to send us this device.

16:07.000 --> 16:12.020
They want to sell us, they're marketing this device, IPTV, hardware, streaming, whatever

16:12.020 --> 16:15.560
the fuck, which lists on their site for, are you ready for this?

16:15.560 --> 16:22.260
For the low, low price of, quote, under $70,000 US fucking dollars.

16:22.380 --> 16:23.060
Okay, the fucking...

16:23.060 --> 16:25.700
The fucking is not in the quote.

16:25.900 --> 16:28.980
I added that, but are you fucking kidding me?

16:29.000 --> 16:31.860
Holy batshit, $70,000 fucking dollars?

16:32.340 --> 16:34.280
You have got to be fucking kidding me.

16:34.480 --> 16:39.380
Did you really send me a goddamn email trying to sell me something for $70,000?

16:39.740 --> 16:41.160
You're out of your fucking mind?

16:41.940 --> 16:45.120
That's the stupidest thing I've ever fucking heard in my life.

16:46.180 --> 16:52.360
You've got to be completely fucking retarded to try to sell me, the guy who does this fucking

16:52.360 --> 17:00.820
radio show with a $7.95 Lab Tech fucking microphone and a speakerphone, a $70,000 piece of equipment.

17:01.160 --> 17:04.840
You have got your dick in your own ass if you think I'm going to buy this.

17:05.360 --> 17:08.740
That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life.

17:08.980 --> 17:10.240
Have you seen Hack TV?

17:10.240 --> 17:12.160
Do I sound like...

17:12.160 --> 17:12.700
Look at me.

17:13.280 --> 17:15.600
I'm wearing a fucking t-shirt and a baseball cap.

17:15.660 --> 17:19.460
Do I look like I could afford $70,000 for a fucking device like that?

17:20.400 --> 17:22.420
And it says under $70,000.

17:22.760 --> 17:23.320
Well, guess what?

17:23.560 --> 17:30.260
If this may be $69,900 under $70,000, if I can get it for $100,000, then yeah, maybe I'll consider it.

17:30.920 --> 17:32.140
But it better be a whole hell...

17:32.140 --> 17:35.480
I don't think under $70,000 means they're going to sell it to me for $50,000.

17:35.660 --> 17:37.120
That's fucking a-redonkulous.

17:37.120 --> 17:40.380
I can't believe that they have sent me this multiple times.

17:40.440 --> 17:41.580
Like, I ignored it once.

17:42.280 --> 17:42.780
Spam it.

17:42.820 --> 17:43.020
Fine.

17:43.120 --> 17:44.640
Send me spam one fucking time.

17:45.300 --> 17:46.160
But this is ridiculous.

17:46.320 --> 17:47.600
And then here's the other funny thing.

17:47.660 --> 17:49.300
And this kind of will...

17:49.300 --> 17:50.240
We got some email to do.

17:50.300 --> 17:51.860
This kind of might segue into the show.

17:52.120 --> 17:55.040
And doing a little bit of research...

17:55.040 --> 17:56.280
I'm actually out of breath.

17:56.340 --> 17:56.960
I'm so angry.

17:57.040 --> 17:58.540
My face is red right now.

17:58.860 --> 18:01.440
I did a little research from this spam.

18:01.560 --> 18:02.380
Working backwards.

18:02.500 --> 18:03.160
Doing a little searching.

18:03.560 --> 18:07.100
And I found out that they did get a bunch of podcasters to do this shit.

18:08.080 --> 18:10.480
What the fuck is wrong with you people?

18:11.360 --> 18:11.860
You're...

18:11.860 --> 18:13.600
They're not only podcasters.

18:13.600 --> 18:19.720
I saw a review on, like, some computer help coast AM, coast to coast, some bullshit like

18:19.720 --> 18:21.000
that, that did this...

18:21.000 --> 18:23.480
I mean, how are they suckering these people in our house?

18:23.840 --> 18:26.340
How fucking hard up for material are you?

18:26.700 --> 18:27.260
I mean, listen.

18:27.460 --> 18:28.480
I'm not one to talk.

18:28.560 --> 18:32.000
We've had some times where our material was not our A game.

18:32.100 --> 18:35.000
You know, we've had some episodes that flopped pretty hard.

18:35.000 --> 18:39.380
But I've never been so fucking hard up for material that I'm going to review a fucking

18:39.380 --> 18:42.700
spam on the air, for God's sakes.

18:43.600 --> 18:44.700
That is pathetic.

18:44.940 --> 18:45.600
So, anybody...

18:45.600 --> 18:49.840
I mean, all of you out there, anyone out there right now that did this, if you reviewed this

18:49.840 --> 18:52.100
on your show, you are...

18:52.100 --> 18:52.900
You sicken me.

18:53.420 --> 18:58.000
How stupid are you that you fall for this kind of spam and that you get sucked into this?

18:58.600 --> 19:03.200
Anybody who's done a show on this, you guys got pwned and you don't even know it.

19:03.200 --> 19:04.400
You don't even realize it.

19:05.380 --> 19:09.060
You're going to review something that none of your listeners could probably afford.

19:09.280 --> 19:09.980
Seventy grand.

19:10.180 --> 19:10.620
Seriously.

19:11.700 --> 19:13.660
Seventy thousand U.S. dollars.

19:13.980 --> 19:18.740
How many of your listeners to your pissant podcast, like this one, don't get me wrong,

19:19.260 --> 19:24.060
how many of our listeners, either A, could afford it, or B, are willing to pay that much

19:24.060 --> 19:24.980
for this piece of crap?

19:25.860 --> 19:30.300
Do you really think I'm making enough money on Hack TV to afford that?

19:31.060 --> 19:32.100
I don't...

19:32.100 --> 19:34.540
I don't even know what else to say.

19:35.000 --> 19:40.600
And the other thing that's so funny about this is that podcasters, and these people

19:40.600 --> 19:44.980
doing these shows that are probably getting the spam, are replying to it.

19:45.660 --> 19:48.860
I make jokes on the time about what kind of idiot responds to spam.

19:48.940 --> 19:50.000
Who buys this Viagra?

19:50.080 --> 19:54.240
Who's actually subscribing to the animal goat sea porn, whatever the hell they're advertising

19:54.240 --> 19:54.940
all the time?

19:54.940 --> 19:56.920
People don't respond to that, do they?

19:57.280 --> 19:58.040
Fucking yes!

19:58.040 --> 19:59.360
Say they respond to it!

19:59.900 --> 20:00.540
And if people...

20:00.540 --> 20:06.900
If you fucking dumbass podcasters out there keep responding to this shit, it's never going

20:06.900 --> 20:07.900
to go away.

20:09.080 --> 20:12.620
And I'm sorry, if you're running a podcast, you should be smarter than that.

20:13.020 --> 20:14.420
But actually, I guess not.

20:15.480 --> 20:19.580
First of all, for the record, I maintain that I am not a podcaster.

20:19.580 --> 20:22.000
I don't give a fuck what people say.

20:22.280 --> 20:28.020
Yes, we have a podcast to distribute the show, but we've been doing the show long before podcasting

20:28.020 --> 20:28.640
ever existed.

20:29.000 --> 20:30.020
We do a radio show.

20:30.260 --> 20:32.280
If you've downloaded through the podcast, that's great.

20:32.560 --> 20:37.000
But all these people that jumped on the podcasting bandwagon with the whole iPod podcaster, which

20:37.000 --> 20:39.580
has no fucking relationship anyway...

20:39.580 --> 20:41.820
All right, you know what?

20:42.420 --> 20:45.600
Savant, can you try to calm the people down?

20:45.620 --> 20:46.400
I've got to take a drink.

20:46.520 --> 20:47.360
I'm actually sweating.

20:48.000 --> 20:48.340
I'm feeling...

20:48.340 --> 20:52.800
Well, I mean, like, I hear what you're saying, and I want to agree with you, but damn, IPTV

20:52.800 --> 20:55.140
looks really, really appealing.

20:55.740 --> 21:03.620
So, I mean, I was going to save up and buy a BMW, but IPTV just sounds so much more...

21:03.620 --> 21:07.320
I mean, I can watch TV any time I want.

21:07.320 --> 21:13.720
They should make something up, like a TV recorder, a TV potion, something, you know?

21:13.720 --> 21:16.040
A device that, like, records shows.

21:16.880 --> 21:18.700
I wonder why no one's thought of that yet.

21:19.000 --> 21:20.080
Yeah, you know what?

21:20.080 --> 21:20.940
We're in the wrong business.

21:21.340 --> 21:21.800
That's it.

21:21.840 --> 21:22.620
You know, I tell you what.

21:22.660 --> 21:23.180
Let's do this.

21:23.300 --> 21:24.380
I'll split it in half with you.

21:24.420 --> 21:25.340
$35,000 each.

21:26.200 --> 21:26.500
All right.

21:26.540 --> 21:26.960
That sounds fair.

21:26.960 --> 21:27.200
Okay?

21:27.320 --> 21:28.160
I get it on weekends.

21:29.860 --> 21:32.040
I know a couple open mail relays that we could use.

21:32.040 --> 21:33.120
All right.

21:33.240 --> 21:36.040
Well, speaking of mail...

21:36.040 --> 21:42.900
I think I can get it back under control now that I've wasted half the fucking show on

21:42.900 --> 21:43.160
that.

21:43.720 --> 21:45.240
I'm sorry, but I...

21:45.240 --> 21:46.860
You don't know how long I've been holding that in.

21:46.900 --> 21:49.420
Seriously, they've been emailing me that for months and, like...

21:49.420 --> 21:53.560
Not, like, frequently, but, like, once every month, I get something along those lines from

21:53.560 --> 21:53.920
these people.

21:54.060 --> 21:57.560
And I ignore one or two of them, and it's like, guys, take a hint.

21:58.180 --> 21:58.540
You know?

21:59.180 --> 22:00.120
What the fuck?

22:00.800 --> 22:02.900
Anyway, let's do some real email this week.

22:02.940 --> 22:04.100
We actually got some.

22:04.900 --> 22:07.440
And let me try to switch and use my indoor voice.

22:07.960 --> 22:10.300
My charming, charming radio voice.

22:11.340 --> 22:13.140
I'm the worst radio voice ever.

22:13.620 --> 22:13.940
All right.

22:14.020 --> 22:15.300
So...

22:15.300 --> 22:17.420
Oh, I'm still catching my breath, damn it.

22:17.920 --> 22:18.160
All right.

22:18.160 --> 22:21.560
So our first email comes from NeuroLogic.

22:22.560 --> 22:23.440
NeuroLogic says,

22:23.440 --> 22:27.440
Hi, I have been a long-time listener since episode one.

22:27.620 --> 22:28.240
Ooh, nice.

22:28.920 --> 22:32.180
I listened to episode 162, and I was on the floor laughing.

22:32.740 --> 22:37.400
My advice to Verbal is, when you see a girl and you are interested from experience, just

22:37.400 --> 22:42.180
approach her anyway, and be safe to know she isn't going to kill and eat your family.

22:42.920 --> 22:44.120
Well, that depends on the girl now.

22:44.160 --> 22:44.560
Be careful.

22:45.540 --> 22:48.440
Give a nice smile and not a cheesy one, and give compliments.

22:48.900 --> 22:52.220
Even if you just give a compliment, at least you would make someone's day.

22:52.820 --> 22:56.460
It's either she'll be interested or not, and if it doesn't work out, there are always

22:56.460 --> 22:58.140
other women out there.

22:58.240 --> 23:00.840
Anyway, keep up the great work.

23:02.180 --> 23:04.620
Ah, so see, now we're back on a nice topic.

23:04.740 --> 23:10.060
See, the show's nice and friendly again, temporarily, until we get to our main topic again later.

23:11.240 --> 23:18.520
So Verbal's adventures in his search for love, the quest for love on the interweb, or actually

23:18.520 --> 23:22.680
not necessarily on the interweb, but will continue in future episodes.

23:22.940 --> 23:27.420
We will probably do a little bit about that in some upcoming episodes, and give you some

23:27.420 --> 23:28.100
status reports.

23:28.340 --> 23:33.040
But frankly, I'll be happy if he just doesn't get arrested for stalking someone.

23:33.440 --> 23:35.660
I'll consider that a success if that happens.

23:36.140 --> 23:39.920
Hey, hey, what you consider a stalker, I consider an internet detective.

23:39.920 --> 23:47.020
Right, or what do they call it, covert amateur porn?

23:47.780 --> 23:48.700
Yeah, there you go.

23:49.520 --> 23:52.640
We can, you can label it whatever you want, but you know.

23:52.740 --> 23:55.920
You know, I've got a little advice for Verbal too, while we're on the subject real fast.

23:55.960 --> 23:56.460
Go for it.

23:56.460 --> 24:02.160
Man, don't ever, ever underestimate the overwhelming, compelling power of honesty, of compliments,

24:02.360 --> 24:03.840
but more importantly, of alcohol.

24:04.340 --> 24:04.820
Oh, yeah.

24:05.420 --> 24:06.960
Always, you always have that.

24:07.060 --> 24:08.840
That's your, that's always your fail safe, right?

24:09.000 --> 24:09.560
That's always your...

24:09.560 --> 24:10.520
Alcohol is your wingman, Rebels.

24:10.620 --> 24:11.140
Hook it up.

24:11.320 --> 24:11.940
There you go.

24:12.720 --> 24:17.140
She doesn't know if it's a, you know, what do they call them, a Shirley Temple, or whatever

24:17.140 --> 24:18.140
the hell they are without alcohol.

24:18.320 --> 24:19.120
I don't even know, man.

24:19.340 --> 24:20.460
Is that a California thing?

24:21.260 --> 24:21.620
Something.

24:21.840 --> 24:26.220
You know, what is it, like a, no, it's a Virgin Mary is like a Bloody Mary without alcohol.

24:26.460 --> 24:30.280
Just order two, and just let the bartender at 20, and say, hey man, couldn't you just

24:30.280 --> 24:32.400
say that there's like 20% alcohol in this?

24:33.000 --> 24:37.360
She doesn't have to know, and you end up looking like a stud, and meanwhile, she's getting

24:37.360 --> 24:37.960
more agreeable.

24:38.160 --> 24:38.880
There you go.

24:39.380 --> 24:39.740
There you go.

24:39.740 --> 24:43.580
Disclaimer, I'm not actually a sexual coercion offender.

24:44.020 --> 24:44.760
Yeah, right.

24:45.540 --> 24:47.500
Not according to those pictures I saw at Hope.

24:47.540 --> 24:48.400
But anyway...

24:48.400 --> 24:49.820
Hey man, they signed a relief.

24:51.560 --> 24:55.020
All right, let's go on to our next email for this week.

24:55.020 --> 24:56.620
Okay, I'll leave that one alone.

24:57.320 --> 24:57.760
Please.

24:59.240 --> 25:06.280
Our next email comes from Mirror Shades, who says, hi guys, I am listening to episode 164

25:06.280 --> 25:08.280
and thought I'd share a thought or two.

25:09.780 --> 25:14.180
Regarding a web-based service that would allow you to enter someone's public key and a message

25:14.180 --> 25:15.920
to be encrypted, keep this in mind.

25:16.480 --> 25:20.520
You would be submitting the plain text of your message to the people running the service.

25:20.520 --> 25:24.060
Assuming their intentions are noble, this may not present a problem.

25:24.200 --> 25:28.300
However, since you would never really know what they do with all that plain text, I would

25:28.300 --> 25:29.600
tend to mistrust them.

25:30.060 --> 25:30.860
Think of it this way.

25:30.920 --> 25:34.140
How would you feel, or excuse me, would you feel comfortable encrypting your own credit

25:34.140 --> 25:39.120
card, social security number, and naked picture of your wife, girlfriend with such a service?

25:39.660 --> 25:43.940
Basically, any system for which you do not maintain complete oversight should not be fully

25:43.940 --> 25:44.560
trusted.

25:44.560 --> 25:49.100
Next section deals with beating a dead horse.

25:49.200 --> 25:50.500
Feel free to ignore it if you'd like.

25:50.580 --> 25:51.960
No, I'm actually going to read this.

25:52.720 --> 25:57.020
Regarding the term hacker, my own thoughts were published in 2600 a couple issues ago.

25:57.420 --> 26:01.560
Going back to your definition, though, I can identify at least one non-computer hacker.

26:02.020 --> 26:07.700
Alton Brown hosted the TV show Good Eats that airs on the Food Network in the United States.

26:08.140 --> 26:11.100
If you've never seen this guy in action, it's worth watching an episode.

26:11.100 --> 26:12.260
Yes, it's a cooking show.

26:12.400 --> 26:15.400
It is, however, very different from other cooking shows.

26:15.520 --> 26:17.640
In short, here's what I think makes him a hacker.

26:17.840 --> 26:22.040
One, he has a brilliant understanding of the details of his subject matter.

26:22.300 --> 26:22.500
Check.

26:23.140 --> 26:29.760
Two, he uses the tools available to him in often unconventional ways for unexpected results.

26:30.060 --> 26:30.320
Check.

26:30.820 --> 26:32.960
And number three, he teaches others.

26:34.400 --> 26:37.920
I wish that were true in all cases for hackers, but frankly, it's not.

26:38.420 --> 26:40.300
But it is cool that he does that.

26:40.300 --> 26:42.520
So, I'll give that one a check.

26:43.460 --> 26:44.680
Nice job with the show.

26:44.840 --> 26:46.600
Keep up the good work.

26:47.280 --> 26:47.700
All right.

26:47.800 --> 26:49.900
Mirror Shades, thank you very much.

26:50.380 --> 26:55.700
And, Savant, I think you can certainly back me up on this, that that's absolutely a valid point.

26:56.080 --> 26:59.820
If I didn't mention it last episode, let me clearly state it now.

27:00.340 --> 27:03.740
That, yeah, you can't trust anything unless you're running it yourself.

27:04.740 --> 27:09.600
And even then, you could have been owned and you may not be able to trust your own box, but generally speaking.

27:10.340 --> 27:15.100
Well, who is the target of these so-called, you know, self-packaged encryption suites?

27:15.640 --> 27:23.220
If you're smart enough or you're dealing with information that's sensitive enough to need to encrypt it, are you too fucking stupid to Google how to use GPG?

27:23.680 --> 27:25.900
There's tutorials for every available operating system.

27:26.760 --> 27:28.040
Are you really that lazy?

27:28.140 --> 27:29.840
And if you are, you probably deserve to get owned.

27:29.840 --> 27:32.580
Yeah, and I was going to say, maybe the keyword's not stupid but lazy.

27:32.720 --> 27:34.360
I think it's probably more apt the case.

27:35.440 --> 27:43.900
So, yeah, well, but just to reemphasize the point of, yeah, if you're doing this, you're trusting someone else's box, you don't know what they're doing with it.

27:43.940 --> 27:45.580
Maybe they're saving and logging everything.

27:45.680 --> 27:47.520
You don't know that they're valid.

27:47.620 --> 27:48.720
They could be a .org.

27:48.840 --> 27:53.620
They could have all these disclaimers saying, we swear, seriously, guys, we don't keep your information.

27:54.180 --> 27:55.820
Meanwhile, it's all in the database somewhere.

27:55.820 --> 28:02.260
You have no idea about that, so be careful trusting anything like that to somebody you don't know.

28:02.340 --> 28:13.480
If you're not running your own box from start to finish with everything along the way of what you're doing, you're always at the mercy of someone else, and you have to extend some level of trust anyway to another person.

28:13.560 --> 28:15.300
So always keep that in the back of your mind.

28:15.700 --> 28:19.080
Do I trust this person enough for X, Y, Z?

28:19.180 --> 28:22.200
Like his example, would you send your credit card number to another?

28:22.200 --> 28:28.140
You might feel comfortable just encrypting a general email with nothing, but would you really encrypt your credit card with those people?

28:28.180 --> 28:29.140
Do you trust them that much?

28:29.660 --> 28:31.340
What about naked pictures of your mom?

28:31.740 --> 28:32.560
That kind of thing?

28:32.860 --> 28:35.120
I think he said girlfriend and wife, but whatever.

28:35.640 --> 28:36.480
You get the point.

28:37.420 --> 28:41.940
And I know if I didn't mention it last week, I definitely should have, so thank you for bringing that up.

28:42.000 --> 28:43.320
This is definitely on point.

28:43.980 --> 28:51.440
But I do know that I mentioned it, we did an episode about proxy servers a while back, and I know for sure I mentioned it in that and emphasized it quite a bit.

28:51.680 --> 28:55.280
If you don't know who runs that proxy, you don't know if you can trust them.

28:55.300 --> 28:59.020
That could be a honeypot, and there are rumors of government honeypot proxies out there.

28:59.740 --> 29:01.620
And a honeypot, of course, can be anything.

29:01.780 --> 29:03.720
It could be a proxy server that's logging stuff.

29:03.920 --> 29:04.960
It could be an email server.

29:04.960 --> 29:12.460
It could be any number of things, you know, so yes, that absolutely holds true in this scenario of trust.

29:12.600 --> 29:13.160
Who do you trust?

29:13.220 --> 29:14.000
Who don't you trust?

29:14.480 --> 29:15.620
So definitely a good point.

29:15.920 --> 29:19.260
And I think the rest of your email pretty much speaks for itself.

29:20.100 --> 29:21.620
So I don't know.

29:21.740 --> 29:23.200
Sabat, anything to add to that?

29:23.300 --> 29:23.520
I mean.

29:24.080 --> 29:32.280
Well, it's the same concept as if you're going down to Mexico and you're trusting someone to, you know, go hook up three kilos of cocaine for you or something.

29:32.280 --> 29:36.680
Would you trust someone you don't know, have never seen before, have never spoken to before?

29:37.440 --> 29:40.580
Or, I mean, to a lesser extent, even just some random guy on the street?

29:40.760 --> 29:41.500
No, you wouldn't.

29:41.920 --> 29:43.640
Common sense says don't fucking do it.

29:43.880 --> 29:47.380
You wouldn't walk up to some random person in a concert and say, hey, man, you want to buy some drugs?

29:47.920 --> 29:49.020
Because they might be a cop.

29:49.360 --> 29:51.820
You should just always assume that someone is after you.

29:52.000 --> 29:56.880
Not to sound like a tinfoil hat theorist, but you just can't be too safe.

29:56.880 --> 30:06.220
Yeah, and that's why I always import my balloon, my drug-filled balloon cocaine myself.

30:06.900 --> 30:07.240
Because I know.

30:07.960 --> 30:12.700
Or with people whose kids you've got in your basement, because those are the only ones you can really trust to do the right thing.

30:13.120 --> 30:13.560
Exactly.

30:14.100 --> 30:14.540
Exactly.

30:15.480 --> 30:16.160
All right, let's see.

30:16.220 --> 30:18.860
How about, let's do, we got, let's do a couple more emails.

30:18.960 --> 30:20.920
Let's do an email here from Tim.

30:20.920 --> 30:25.940
Tim says, oh my goodness, BinRev Radio rocks.

30:26.180 --> 30:28.060
I listened to episode 162.

30:28.220 --> 30:29.900
It was amazing leet.

30:30.560 --> 30:31.260
Amazing leet.

30:31.340 --> 30:32.460
I like the, that's got a ring to it.

30:32.500 --> 30:33.260
It's amazing leet.

30:34.060 --> 30:37.940
Verbal bouncing shit off satellites, but he can't hack shit, according to Sammy.

30:38.640 --> 30:42.140
Fuck verbal, but he gets email, and he says hi to the people.

30:42.300 --> 30:43.180
So that's leet.

30:43.580 --> 30:44.540
Verbal is leet.

30:44.920 --> 30:46.600
BinRev motherfucking radio.

30:46.720 --> 30:47.600
Does this guy have ADD?

30:47.680 --> 30:48.320
What's going on here?

30:49.000 --> 30:49.480
Fear.

30:49.480 --> 30:50.440
Fear, anyways.

30:51.360 --> 30:52.360
Okay, those are like sentences.

30:52.560 --> 30:53.240
Fear, period.

30:53.460 --> 30:54.460
Anyways, period.

30:55.220 --> 30:58.100
It was nice to hear Stank swearing in the first line of the show.

30:58.340 --> 31:00.100
Woo, that's what I listen for.

31:00.420 --> 31:01.020
Hells yeah.

31:01.100 --> 31:04.260
To be honest, when I downloaded it, I was figuring it would suck.

31:04.360 --> 31:05.800
Verbal's voice rocks, though.

31:06.160 --> 31:07.800
Don't be hatin'.

31:07.800 --> 31:10.300
Oh yeah, and you suck at the online is gay.

31:10.540 --> 31:10.800
Really?

31:10.940 --> 31:11.680
Like, seriously?

31:12.360 --> 31:13.240
Fear tubes.

31:14.080 --> 31:15.400
Fear tubes is my favorite.

31:16.000 --> 31:17.000
Fear tubes.

31:17.840 --> 31:18.500
Oh yeah.

31:18.500 --> 31:26.020
Yeah, and the NSA proposed a bill, yes, the NSA, allowing them to wiretap whoever they want without a court order.

31:26.200 --> 31:26.500
Fear.

31:26.880 --> 31:29.260
Why don't you talk about that stuff on the show?

31:29.700 --> 31:33.220
Senator Arlen Specter sucks balls, dude.

31:33.220 --> 31:35.860
You should inform the masses.

31:36.580 --> 31:38.980
Use your media love to inform the masses.

31:38.980 --> 31:40.940
I don't know how many masses we have, but...

31:41.940 --> 31:44.180
Oh yeah, do an episode about telephony.

31:44.320 --> 31:45.780
Oh, you've got to be kidding me with that, right?

31:47.060 --> 31:49.860
Boy, you've got to listen to season three.

31:49.960 --> 31:50.740
That's all I can say.

31:50.740 --> 31:54.520
Um, I could listen to information about lead dial plans for hours.

31:54.620 --> 31:55.640
Yeah, you got it.

31:55.680 --> 31:57.860
Hours of lead dial plans, season three.

31:58.340 --> 32:01.760
Uh, listening to people talk about open source software is ultra boring.

32:01.940 --> 32:02.280
Ooh.

32:02.540 --> 32:02.880
Ooh.

32:02.880 --> 32:04.740
Oh, man, my heart.

32:05.220 --> 32:06.740
Oh, pulled a knife out.

32:07.280 --> 32:11.260
At least you talked about compression algorithms for like two seconds and 162.

32:11.360 --> 32:12.360
It was rad.

32:12.860 --> 32:14.580
Oh yeah, and crickets go...

32:15.840 --> 32:16.520
Uh, okay.

32:16.760 --> 32:17.960
Um...

32:17.960 --> 32:19.100
How do you do this?

32:19.220 --> 32:19.780
Alright, do it.

32:20.780 --> 32:22.520
Cheek, cheek, cheek, cheek.

32:22.520 --> 32:25.520
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

32:25.520 --> 32:29.540
What the fuck kind of crack-headed cricket was that?

32:30.140 --> 32:31.260
He went on...

32:31.260 --> 32:32.440
Cheek, cheek, cheek, cheek.

32:32.980 --> 32:33.300
Ha ha ha ha.

32:33.300 --> 32:35.640
That's like a fucking cricket on steroids.

32:35.760 --> 32:38.480
What the fuck kind of crickets do you got out there on the west side?

32:38.880 --> 32:40.380
They're the ones that live in the fear tubes.

32:40.500 --> 32:40.960
Ha ha ha ha.

32:40.960 --> 32:42.020
I guess so.

32:42.200 --> 32:42.460
Shit.

32:43.360 --> 32:44.660
Oh, well, not...

32:44.660 --> 32:46.760
Better than I can do, but...

32:46.760 --> 32:47.280
We...

32:47.280 --> 32:49.220
Not cacaw, cacaw.

32:49.620 --> 32:53.280
See, we were doing like raven voices about how there was, you know, like a...

32:53.280 --> 32:55.060
A desert and a tumbleweed going by.

32:55.060 --> 32:57.340
We were picturing nobody around, nobody's listening.

32:57.480 --> 33:01.480
So we didn't mean to say the crickets go cacaw, cacaw.

33:02.140 --> 33:02.580
Cacaw!

33:03.000 --> 33:04.840
That was crows, man, but...

33:04.840 --> 33:05.920
Like, seriously.

33:06.040 --> 33:08.500
Okay, anyway, he's joking, and he knows we're joking with him.

33:09.200 --> 33:10.460
Andrew Green is the man.

33:10.540 --> 33:11.600
What else does he say here?

33:11.860 --> 33:13.840
Just thought I'd let you know what I thought.

33:13.940 --> 33:15.540
Keep up the good work, dudes.

33:16.420 --> 33:17.240
Alright, Tim.

33:17.380 --> 33:18.280
Thank you for the email.

33:18.420 --> 33:19.120
That was pretty funny.

33:21.080 --> 33:23.560
And joking aside, we do appreciate the email.

33:23.560 --> 33:25.020
But let's kind of break this down.

33:25.060 --> 33:28.120
Because the email was all over the place, let's be honest.

33:29.280 --> 33:32.380
First of all, yes, verbal sucks at the online.

33:32.600 --> 33:33.640
There's no doubt about that.

33:33.700 --> 33:34.200
We know that.

33:34.340 --> 33:35.460
Okay, so that aside.

33:36.660 --> 33:42.020
The NSA, and that bill, and whoever the hell he mentioned, Arlen Specter, whatever.

33:42.020 --> 33:52.560
The reason we don't go into that, or any topics along, even closely remotely related to that, is because we here at BinRev Radio have a no politics rule.

33:53.140 --> 34:00.320
We focus on the technology, and we leave the politics to the politicians, and the pseudo-intellectuals, of course.

34:01.320 --> 34:03.000
We don't do that on this show.

34:03.100 --> 34:04.640
We do technology.

34:04.920 --> 34:05.640
We do hacking.

34:05.800 --> 34:06.660
We try to, anyway.

34:07.280 --> 34:12.680
Sometimes, hey, sometimes we talk about, what were we talking about earlier?

34:12.740 --> 34:14.960
How much I hate these IPTV spam mail.

34:15.000 --> 34:16.300
Well, I guess that's technology, though.

34:16.780 --> 34:20.000
Even that, I'm going to hold that that even fits into the format of our show.

34:20.000 --> 34:24.440
But not politics, even remotely related politics.

34:24.620 --> 34:32.800
I mean, occasionally we'll talk about some intellectual property, law, and things affecting downloading and file sharing and freedom.

34:33.740 --> 34:43.460
But even when we do that, we keep it on a technological level of why it can't be stopped, why it's unrealistic to think or try these things.

34:43.560 --> 34:46.980
So even then, we keep it grounded in the technology side of things.

34:46.980 --> 34:54.960
So if you want to listen to bleeding-heart liberal propaganda disguised as hacking, then listen to WBAI in New York.

34:55.140 --> 34:58.420
You can get that every week, a couple times a week, frankly.

34:58.840 --> 35:04.360
If you want all hacking all the time, listen to Binary Revolution Radio on DDP Hack Radio.

35:04.700 --> 35:08.880
See, I should just take that clip out as a promotional clip.

35:09.060 --> 35:11.240
But see, that's like the catchphrase of the thing.

35:11.280 --> 35:13.720
I should loop that and play it in between all the shows.

35:13.720 --> 35:18.920
So, I guess that's really all that I have to say about that.

35:19.100 --> 35:23.020
So, I'm probably going to get email for that comment.

35:23.140 --> 35:23.800
But you know what?

35:23.920 --> 35:24.320
Fuck it.

35:24.540 --> 35:25.520
I believe it.

35:25.660 --> 35:26.980
I honestly feel that way.

35:27.120 --> 35:29.060
So, hey, whatever.

35:30.680 --> 35:32.860
And I won't put you on the spot to agree or disagree.

35:33.020 --> 35:34.680
I'll let you stay neutral in that whole thing.

35:34.760 --> 35:35.940
And we'll move on to an email.

35:36.060 --> 35:37.500
Cheek, cheek, cheek, cheek.

35:38.260 --> 35:38.660
Caw.

35:38.660 --> 35:38.980
Caw.

35:38.980 --> 35:45.120
Jake says, actually, why don't you read Jake's email for me?

35:45.160 --> 35:50.520
And I'm going to take a little sip of some good sweet iced tea as I stall for you to get Jake's email up in front of you.

35:50.680 --> 35:53.120
And then I hope you'll have it right about now.

35:53.680 --> 35:54.040
All right.

35:54.140 --> 35:55.380
So, this email comes from Jake.

35:55.440 --> 35:57.780
It says, I wouldn't mind hearing more about Yarsinia.

35:57.980 --> 35:59.060
I've never heard that before.

35:59.140 --> 36:00.920
Episode 163 was a great episode.

36:01.300 --> 36:03.760
It piqued my interest on a lot of programs that I've not heard before.

36:04.100 --> 36:04.760
The show is great.

36:04.900 --> 36:05.880
Keep up the good work.

36:06.560 --> 36:07.580
Jake, thank you for your email.

36:07.580 --> 36:11.620
I'm going to have to agree with you that I, myself, had not heard of Yarsinia until today.

36:12.140 --> 36:13.820
But it looks pretty interesting.

36:14.040 --> 36:16.940
Let me make sure I've got the thing open.

36:17.060 --> 36:18.440
And I don't because I'm a noob.

36:18.880 --> 36:24.100
Well, that was one of the tools that Quine talked about last week on one of our doubleheader episodes.

36:24.540 --> 36:27.940
So, I will definitely put that on the list, Jake.

36:28.140 --> 36:29.580
And I'm in the same boat, too.

36:29.620 --> 36:30.760
I had not heard of that one either.

36:30.900 --> 36:32.540
I was not familiar with Yarsinia.

36:32.680 --> 36:36.080
So, I will put that on our list of topics.

36:36.080 --> 36:39.840
So, Quine, if you're listening out there right now, you are hereby on notice.

36:40.340 --> 36:43.980
So, be prepared to be on an upcoming episode of the show.

36:45.700 --> 36:46.140
All right.

36:46.180 --> 36:46.640
So, listen.

36:46.760 --> 36:48.220
We're a good ways into the show.

36:48.400 --> 36:49.960
And I think that's probably a good point.

36:50.060 --> 36:53.560
Let's save the rest of the emails for next week's episode.

36:53.660 --> 36:54.080
What do you say?

36:55.120 --> 36:55.620
Sounds good.

36:55.620 --> 36:56.300
All right.

36:56.420 --> 36:59.500
So, that's going to do it for this week's email anyway.

36:59.640 --> 37:00.660
We did get some good stuff.

37:00.720 --> 37:01.200
Don't get me wrong.

37:01.260 --> 37:03.600
If you didn't hear it, it's probably because I'm saving it for next week.

37:04.360 --> 37:05.660
But, you know what?

37:05.720 --> 37:11.000
After that little rant on spam that I had earlier, let's kind of keep the flow going, so to speak,

37:11.060 --> 37:15.760
and stick with annoying email as our theme or topic or whatever for this episode.

37:16.440 --> 37:20.140
And I think probably let's do a little talk about phishing.

37:20.140 --> 37:23.900
Gosh, I love talking about phishing.

37:24.420 --> 37:25.800
You never shut up about it.

37:25.880 --> 37:26.360
I know.

37:26.560 --> 37:29.360
And did the sarcasm actually come through in that statement?

37:29.520 --> 37:33.820
Did you, the listener, feel the sarcasm when I said that?

37:33.820 --> 37:38.000
See, I just don't get phishing is such a big deal.

37:38.640 --> 37:40.120
I mean, I understand it affects.

37:40.260 --> 37:42.660
I mean, it's a big deal as far as the effects that it has.

37:43.560 --> 37:44.100
But, all right.

37:44.140 --> 37:44.880
Well, I'll tell you what.

37:44.940 --> 37:46.280
Let's start this way.

37:47.080 --> 37:47.740
And I'll tell you what.

37:47.740 --> 37:50.020
You help me out on a lot of this, okay?

37:50.500 --> 37:51.180
All right, I'm with you.

37:51.800 --> 37:58.100
Okay, why don't, let's define phishing, first of all, because I actually, even the word annoys me a little bit

37:58.100 --> 38:03.060
because the way it's defined even these days is a little bit too narrow for me.

38:03.180 --> 38:05.780
So, kind of define phishing first off.

38:05.820 --> 38:08.560
I know most people probably already know this, but let's define it.

38:09.380 --> 38:13.540
Okay, well, in simple terms, phishing is simply brand spoofing.

38:13.540 --> 38:22.300
It is exploiting trust on a human level to try and use that trust to gain access to a system or to sensitive information

38:22.300 --> 38:28.560
or to just other accounts that they can, phishers can, in some way, profit off of your ignorance.

38:28.560 --> 38:32.940
According to Google, it is the act of tricking someone into giving them confidential information

38:32.940 --> 38:35.800
or tricking them into doing something they normally wouldn't or shouldn't do.

38:36.280 --> 38:41.340
For example, sending email to a user's fault to claim to be an established legitimate enterprise

38:41.340 --> 38:46.020
or an attempt to scam the user into surrendering private information that would be used in identity theft.

38:46.860 --> 38:49.480
That sounds like a pretty blanket definition.

38:49.600 --> 38:50.520
I have no problems with that.

38:50.520 --> 38:52.800
Yeah, actually, I stand corrected.

38:52.940 --> 38:55.900
I think that actually is a fairly good definition.

38:56.020 --> 38:56.880
I'm okay with that one.

38:58.080 --> 39:03.400
But generally, one of my annoyances, and I think you'll back me up on this actually,

39:03.640 --> 39:07.640
is I hate it when people refer to phishing as email.

39:07.960 --> 39:09.860
Like, phishing is only an email thing.

39:10.480 --> 39:10.740
Right.

39:10.840 --> 39:12.420
And that is very, very common.

39:12.660 --> 39:18.020
People say phishing, they think only an email that's trying to sucker you out of whatever.

39:18.020 --> 39:22.400
Whether it's your account information, your credit card numbers, whatever.

39:22.860 --> 39:24.920
Email is not about phishing.

39:25.480 --> 39:30.100
And email has been around long before phishing, or long before, excuse me, phishing has been around

39:30.100 --> 39:32.400
long before email phishing, really.

39:32.560 --> 39:34.900
That was kind of like another evolution.

39:35.100 --> 39:39.000
I mean, phishing over the phone has been around for a long, long, long, long time.

39:40.280 --> 39:42.360
Even technologically, it predates email.

39:42.580 --> 39:44.240
If you want to keep it on the cyber medium,

39:44.240 --> 39:50.620
it generally is considered to have originated on the old AOL network back before mainstream

39:50.620 --> 39:52.440
dial-up access really became popular.

39:52.940 --> 39:56.600
And it was when people would sit in chat rooms and make their screen names look like the people

39:56.600 --> 40:00.240
that were running AOL and would say, this is account rep 31337.

40:01.100 --> 40:04.720
We need you to give us your password because there was a failure in the database or something

40:04.720 --> 40:05.180
like that.

40:05.400 --> 40:05.500
Right.

40:05.500 --> 40:08.200
And back in the day, there was a surprising amount of victims.

40:08.360 --> 40:12.560
I would say the ROI was operating where between 50% to 90% of AOL users.

40:12.820 --> 40:13.140
Wow.

40:13.560 --> 40:14.860
Yeah, actually, that is a good example.

40:14.920 --> 40:15.520
I hadn't thought of that.

40:15.560 --> 40:17.000
But I tell you what, I'll do you even one better.

40:17.400 --> 40:18.780
Forget technology altogether.

40:19.580 --> 40:25.040
There's nothing verbally from you going, if you go into a bar, you can simply phish for

40:25.040 --> 40:25.560
information.

40:25.680 --> 40:29.020
Hey, yeah, that's kind of a cool cash register you got over there.

40:29.040 --> 40:30.620
Is that some kind of computerized thing?

40:30.720 --> 40:33.020
You know, you can just phish for information.

40:33.800 --> 40:37.960
It may not, first of all, I guess now that I think about it, I do have one little issue

40:37.960 --> 40:38.640
with that definition.

40:38.800 --> 40:41.520
It's not always about financial gain of any kind.

40:41.600 --> 40:42.860
Sometimes it's just information.

40:44.620 --> 40:46.560
You know, you can phish simply for information.

40:46.880 --> 40:49.920
You can phish to get footprint information about a site.

40:49.920 --> 40:55.880
I can call up and ask some secretary what version of your operating, what version of Windows

40:55.880 --> 40:56.320
are you using.

40:56.400 --> 40:58.820
I can phish just to get information and hang up and that's it.

40:58.820 --> 41:04.340
It's part of a larger fishing expedition, an individual call trying to phish for information.

41:05.280 --> 41:07.140
Are you trying to say that Kevin Mitnick is a fisher?

41:07.480 --> 41:08.720
I think that's what you're trying to say.

41:08.780 --> 41:09.640
I'm written between the lines.

41:10.540 --> 41:10.940
Hmm.

41:11.420 --> 41:13.000
Possibly in some cases, I guess.

41:13.440 --> 41:15.260
But, I mean, I think anybody could be.

41:15.520 --> 41:19.520
Anybody who's ever, yeah, anybody who's ever intentionally, now some are better than

41:19.520 --> 41:24.240
others, you know, then social engineering comes into play as far as how effective your

41:24.240 --> 41:29.500
phishing techniques are, but, yeah, I think you see what I'm getting at there, right?

41:29.660 --> 41:33.200
Well, and here's a completely offline example that I think you might like.

41:33.500 --> 41:39.260
Let's say you are a con person trying to get a job as a nanny somewhere, but you know that

41:39.260 --> 41:42.640
you have a criminal record and don't have the references and no one's going to give you

41:42.640 --> 41:45.400
this job and there's no fucking way that you're ever going to get any work.

41:45.900 --> 41:50.020
So you, as an enterprising fisher, might then place an ad in Craigslist and the ad might

41:50.020 --> 41:52.060
say, hey, I need a nanny.

41:52.160 --> 41:53.400
We want someone who's qualified.

41:53.560 --> 41:56.000
We get someone with valuable resources, someone we can trust.

41:56.640 --> 42:00.180
And they basically just fill out an ad and wait for people to respond to that.

42:00.540 --> 42:04.700
Then they take those resumes with all those references, change just the phone number of

42:04.700 --> 42:08.300
who it's returned to, and then submit it to people who are looking for nannies so that

42:08.300 --> 42:13.220
when the people looking for nannies call up on references, they say, hey, is StankDog any

42:13.220 --> 42:15.780
good at taking care of kids because they have a reputable history.

42:16.260 --> 42:20.200
But meanwhile, the people who are responding to the references are saying, oh, yeah, StankDog.

42:20.260 --> 42:21.520
We've known StankDog for years.

42:21.640 --> 42:22.600
You've taken care of our kids.

42:22.660 --> 42:23.720
He hardly ever beats them.

42:23.980 --> 42:25.440
He beats them when we ask them to.

42:25.980 --> 42:27.280
And they've gained that trust.

42:27.400 --> 42:31.680
And now the person whose faith they've associated with that identity is a trusted source and

42:31.680 --> 42:32.740
has access to their children.

42:33.120 --> 42:33.600
All right.

42:33.640 --> 42:34.900
For the record, I don't beat kids.

42:34.980 --> 42:36.360
I just starve them as punishment.

42:37.400 --> 42:38.080
Oh, my mistake.

42:38.320 --> 42:38.520
Yeah.

42:39.300 --> 42:40.400
That must have been a typo.

42:40.560 --> 42:42.080
But no, that's another good example.

42:42.080 --> 42:46.340
Point being, it's a more broad example than most people probably think, at least most

42:46.340 --> 42:51.620
technology professionals who want to call themselves phishing experts or whatever and

42:51.620 --> 42:52.680
focus on e-mail.

42:52.820 --> 42:53.880
It's bigger than e-mail.

42:54.120 --> 42:55.500
I think we can agree on that, right?

42:56.280 --> 42:56.580
Mm-hmm.

42:56.860 --> 42:57.140
All right.

42:57.200 --> 43:01.580
Now, here's my thing about phishing, and this is why I spit it out so sarcastically.

43:02.420 --> 43:04.180
Why is phishing such a big deal?

43:05.080 --> 43:06.940
No one actually falls for that shit, do they?

43:07.020 --> 43:09.340
I mean, are people really buying into this stuff?

43:09.340 --> 43:16.000
I can't tell if you're being literal or if you're being figurative.

43:16.280 --> 43:18.220
I'm going to answer it honestly.

43:18.400 --> 43:21.600
I mean, people, I guess we know that people are falling for this, right?

43:22.160 --> 43:26.120
Well, I think it was P.T. Barnum who basically said, and I'm paraphrasing here, you know,

43:26.180 --> 43:29.520
design me something that's idiot-proof and they'll design a better idiot.

43:29.600 --> 43:30.320
No, no, no, I'm sorry.

43:30.440 --> 43:32.560
Barnum said, a sucker's born every second.

43:32.640 --> 43:33.040
Right.

43:33.320 --> 43:34.140
And that's true.

43:34.620 --> 43:35.760
That's a sucker born every minute.

43:36.500 --> 43:38.260
It's especially relevant with technology.

43:38.480 --> 43:39.980
I mean, you and I are getting up there in age.

43:40.060 --> 43:42.440
We're starting to become some of the older guys kicking around the block.

43:42.560 --> 43:42.840
Yeah.

43:42.840 --> 43:49.480
And even now, like our parents may not be necessarily technologically savvy, but like it or not,

43:49.540 --> 43:50.640
that's the way the world's moving.

43:51.600 --> 43:51.820
Yeah.

43:52.100 --> 43:56.880
And so even grandma's getting email now, and she hasn't been trained on the streets and

43:56.880 --> 43:58.660
in the underground networks the way we have.

43:59.000 --> 44:02.720
So there's a lot of things that we take for granted that, you know, especially the older

44:02.720 --> 44:04.540
people who tend to be the primary targets.

44:04.820 --> 44:05.020
Yeah.

44:05.080 --> 44:07.980
And I have to shut up and admit that that is true.

44:08.120 --> 44:09.800
It's where we are not the target.

44:09.800 --> 44:12.720
That's why it's easy for me to say, yeah, what's the big fucking deal?

44:12.840 --> 44:13.380
Nobody's dumb.

44:13.660 --> 44:15.000
Well, it's not so much dumb enough.

44:15.080 --> 44:18.140
It's just some people just don't know any better because they don't have the experience

44:18.140 --> 44:20.060
that we do, that we take for granted.

44:20.200 --> 44:25.080
I mean, we assume, you know, the younger generation beneath us, you know, I'm the older generation,

44:25.180 --> 44:29.580
but the younger generation, you know, they grew up with computers every day of their lives.

44:29.580 --> 44:33.600
I mean, honestly, you know, these are kids that have had laptops since they were a little

44:33.600 --> 44:35.100
kid and games and computer.

44:35.100 --> 44:38.760
We're, you know, I didn't grow, I didn't, we didn't even have computers until I got into

44:38.760 --> 44:39.440
like middle school.

44:39.520 --> 44:42.860
And even that was like, you know, not computers like we know it these days.

44:42.900 --> 44:44.580
We didn't have the interweb and all that stuff.

44:45.180 --> 44:51.220
So, you know, it is, it is somewhat your experience and, and knowing better, I guess, for lack of

44:51.220 --> 44:52.320
a better word at this point.

44:53.320 --> 44:54.800
So I'll give you that.

44:54.820 --> 44:55.660
I can see that.

44:55.960 --> 45:02.020
But even so, I mean, are people that gullible in general?

45:02.020 --> 45:06.360
That's my other question, like, look at the spam that I sent earlier, that I ranted about

45:06.360 --> 45:06.760
earlier.

45:07.280 --> 45:11.560
People, I, I, I, I'm, I'm answering my own question here.

45:12.040 --> 45:13.840
People aren't really that gullible, are they?

45:13.920 --> 45:16.260
But people responded to that email.

45:17.960 --> 45:19.140
Are people that stupid?

45:20.440 --> 45:22.000
Well, it's stupid or rich.

45:22.680 --> 45:25.960
I mean, is it, is it really a gullibility, is gullibility the reason?

45:26.060 --> 45:26.720
Is that the issue?

45:26.720 --> 45:29.500
Um, generally, yeah.

45:29.640 --> 45:34.620
I mean, most people interview when we say, okay, now, why did you think that this was

45:34.620 --> 45:35.620
a valid email?

45:35.780 --> 45:39.560
Or why did you think that you suddenly had a Wells Fargo account that you didn't know

45:39.560 --> 45:41.160
about or ever recall signing up for?

45:41.440 --> 45:45.860
Most people respond, well, gosh, I just got taken up by the urgency of it and thought, well,

45:45.900 --> 45:49.180
shit, if I don't sign in now, then my account's going to close.

45:49.460 --> 45:52.240
Even though they don't stop to follow through and think, do I even have an account?

45:52.240 --> 45:53.680
You don't have an account!

45:54.460 --> 45:54.820
No.

45:55.860 --> 46:01.320
Well, that's, oh my gosh, I'm just amazed that that's the answer that people give.

46:02.680 --> 46:09.060
Well, okay, so, so, the Fishers, okay, and I'm going to just use these words because I'm

46:09.060 --> 46:11.620
not going to argue about the definition of these words at this point.

46:12.240 --> 46:13.720
What do, what do they gain for it?

46:13.720 --> 46:14.580
I mean, what's in it for them?

46:14.760 --> 46:15.880
I mean, obviously, accounts.

46:15.940 --> 46:21.380
If you have a Wells Fargo account, you're dumb enough to give them access to it, then obviously

46:21.380 --> 46:27.720
they can have access to your account and take your money out, withdraw, whatever, but what

46:27.720 --> 46:28.660
if you don't have an account?

46:28.780 --> 46:30.540
I mean, is this like spam?

46:30.880 --> 46:32.100
Is there a relationship in spam?

46:32.160 --> 46:33.800
I may be reaching here, so correct me on this.

46:34.140 --> 46:39.260
Is this a relationship to spam where they're hoping that even if they only get .05 response

46:39.260 --> 46:40.840
rate, they still consider it a success?

46:41.620 --> 46:42.640
That's absolutely correct.

46:42.780 --> 46:44.140
It's all about return on investment.

46:44.540 --> 46:48.520
It costs next to nothing to send an email, especially considering the most never being

46:48.520 --> 46:53.220
a symptom-compromised host in the first place, and all they have to do is run their email

46:53.220 --> 46:59.440
harvesting scripts or their malware bot operational tools, just rake in the email addresses all

46:59.440 --> 47:01.780
the live long day, and then turn around and spit the ride back out.

47:02.580 --> 47:08.100
And if only 10 people out of that first 100,000 respond, well, that's still 10 new accounts

47:08.100 --> 47:08.780
that they can sell.

47:10.780 --> 47:13.100
Well, and people are really going in there.

47:13.100 --> 47:18.400
And I'm asking a lot of these questions because I'm frankly, I am amazed that these stories

47:18.400 --> 47:23.000
turn out to be true, because I know that you're telling me the truth from experience.

47:23.360 --> 47:28.720
I mean, I would have difficulty believing this if someone else told me flat face, yes, I

47:28.720 --> 47:31.460
gave my account number to somebody on email.

47:31.660 --> 47:35.540
I would just stand there and look at them, and I'd call, I'd say, you know, you could come

47:35.540 --> 47:40.260
up to me, a stranger, and say, yeah, I gave my account number to some guy in Nigeria last

47:40.260 --> 47:43.740
week, I would look at you in your face, and I'd go, you're a fucking idiot, aren't you?

47:44.200 --> 47:45.340
And then you'd slap him, I hope.

47:45.440 --> 47:47.480
Yeah, I'd kick him in the nuts.

47:48.680 --> 47:49.440
Hey, you know what?

47:49.520 --> 47:50.280
Fishing should hurt.

47:50.500 --> 47:51.780
It should physically hurt.

47:51.980 --> 47:56.260
I think the punishment for being, if you get caught by a fissure, I think I should be

47:56.260 --> 47:58.240
allowed to come to your house and punch you in the stomach.

47:58.800 --> 47:59.780
That should be your punishment.

48:00.220 --> 48:00.820
And you know what?

48:00.820 --> 48:04.600
I bet you every fucking email you get after that, you're going to say, hmm, maybe.

48:05.100 --> 48:05.700
Yeah, right.

48:05.720 --> 48:09.440
You're going to learn to read HTML source code real quick, because you don't want to get

48:09.440 --> 48:10.440
socked in the gut again.

48:10.620 --> 48:11.360
Yeah, and you know what?

48:11.600 --> 48:12.900
Let's keep that.

48:12.980 --> 48:14.160
We're going to put that out there.

48:14.220 --> 48:16.600
We're going to come back to the HTML source code topic.

48:17.300 --> 48:24.400
Let's stick with the general, okay, like, what's, okay, obviously for accounts, access

48:24.400 --> 48:26.360
to your accounts, therefore access to your money.

48:27.800 --> 48:29.480
But it's not always financial.

48:29.480 --> 48:34.480
Sometimes it's them getting access to your fucking MySpace so they can see your pictures

48:35.100 --> 48:37.980
of you jacking off on a picture of Elmo or whatever the fuck you're into.

48:39.440 --> 48:42.100
Dude, I don't know where I come up with these things off my head.

48:42.160 --> 48:42.920
I really don't.

48:43.000 --> 48:45.140
I had no plans of bringing Elmo into the show.

48:45.460 --> 48:48.880
I don't know why I had to do, poor Elmo, he didn't do anything to me.

48:49.720 --> 48:50.660
I'm sorry, Elmo.

48:50.860 --> 48:54.160
Okay, jacking off on your pictures of Big Bird, whatever you're into.

48:55.840 --> 48:57.160
It's not always financial.

48:57.160 --> 48:57.720
I'm more of a Grover man myself.

48:58.140 --> 48:58.460
What's that?

48:58.460 --> 49:01.000
No, no, I said I'm more of a Grover man myself.

49:01.000 --> 49:02.240
Super Grover for the win.

49:02.780 --> 49:05.800
Oh, no, you did not just say for the win on my show.

49:05.800 --> 49:08.540
Okay, well, we can edit that out, I hope.

49:08.660 --> 49:09.920
You suck at the online.

49:10.060 --> 49:10.600
Okay, go ahead.

49:10.620 --> 49:11.920
I suck at the telephone.

49:14.280 --> 49:14.640
Oh.

49:15.700 --> 49:16.640
But, no, you're right.

49:16.700 --> 49:20.200
A lot of the times it's also for personal identification information.

49:20.820 --> 49:25.420
For example, some of these guys will turn right back around and use the identities that they've harvested

49:25.420 --> 49:29.860
through malware or through phishing and set up other sites with them so that their credit

49:29.860 --> 49:33.520
checks, when they use these stolen credit card numbers and all their docs will come back clean,

49:33.940 --> 49:38.660
then they're more likely to get hosting on a site that's not on the RBL, the blacklist.

49:39.780 --> 49:40.000
Yeah.

49:40.000 --> 49:47.220
I mean, you know, majority of the time it does tend to be, at least we're talking about malware and email,

49:47.600 --> 49:49.500
it tends to be about financial information.

49:49.920 --> 49:54.240
Now, if you want to cross that bridge into real life, if we're talking about phishing people over the telephone

49:54.240 --> 49:58.200
or even in person and just saying, wallet inspector, give me your wallet, you know.

49:58.340 --> 49:58.640
Right.

49:59.160 --> 50:01.200
Wallet inspector, what the fuck?

50:03.200 --> 50:04.080
Oh, shit, that was funny.

50:04.080 --> 50:05.260
Everything seems to be in order here.

50:05.320 --> 50:06.000
I'll just take these.

50:07.140 --> 50:08.120
That's good stuff.

50:08.120 --> 50:11.500
Yeah, I mean, people fall for this shit.

50:11.520 --> 50:12.460
I'm going to try that one.

50:13.640 --> 50:16.880
Well, Inspector, you've got to try it at Disneyland.

50:17.120 --> 50:18.320
That's where it's most likely to work.

50:18.420 --> 50:20.000
Like I said, it's all about return on investment.

50:20.340 --> 50:21.380
Hey, that's not far away.

50:21.440 --> 50:22.040
I'll head down there.

50:22.460 --> 50:23.060
And you know what?

50:23.100 --> 50:25.220
But I'm laughing at that because that was pretty funny about it.

50:25.300 --> 50:26.100
I was really laughing.

50:26.280 --> 50:29.380
But I'm laughing at that because it's so ridiculous.

50:29.540 --> 50:35.160
But to me, that's equally ridiculous to get these things saying, hey, we need your eBay account.

50:35.340 --> 50:37.060
I don't have an eBay account.

50:37.060 --> 50:38.800
Hey, we need your Wells Fargo.

50:38.940 --> 50:40.580
What the fuck is Wells Fargo?

50:40.660 --> 50:42.140
I don't have fucking Wells Fargo.

50:42.200 --> 50:43.860
Do I look like I got Wells Fargo money?

50:44.620 --> 50:46.660
I got fucking Bank of America money.

50:46.720 --> 50:48.120
I don't have Wells Fargo money.

50:48.200 --> 50:48.920
What the fuck?

50:49.460 --> 50:50.060
Come on.

50:50.420 --> 50:51.280
That's fuck you money.

50:51.340 --> 50:52.260
I don't have that kind of money.

50:52.700 --> 50:55.200
If I did, I'd buy that IPTV device for $70,000.

50:56.360 --> 50:58.260
See how everything comes back in the show?

50:58.500 --> 50:59.880
See what you did there, Stank?

50:59.880 --> 51:00.420
That was good.

51:00.560 --> 51:01.480
That was nice, right?

51:02.280 --> 51:03.440
I'm going to write that down.

51:03.740 --> 51:04.540
Oh, shit.

51:04.540 --> 51:08.900
All right, and you know what, and another thing here is, I'm going to pose this as kind

51:08.900 --> 51:10.920
of a side topic question.

51:11.260 --> 51:14.840
Why is it that these things always end up coming from Nigeria?

51:15.000 --> 51:20.260
Why is Nigeria specifically, that's the famous country that we see on a lot of this shit.

51:20.320 --> 51:24.260
Why is Nigeria the big buzzword, big country that does this a lot?

51:24.260 --> 51:28.140
Okay, well, that's actually a two-part answer to that question.

51:28.220 --> 51:28.620
The 419.

51:28.620 --> 51:28.680
The 419.

51:28.680 --> 51:33.360
The 419 is, I think a lot of what you're talking about is a reference to those, good evening,

51:33.480 --> 51:34.820
I'm an ambassador from Nigeria.

51:35.000 --> 51:38.780
We've got $5 billion in an account that we need to get to the U.S., blah, blah, blah.

51:39.620 --> 51:44.920
While typically categorized as fishing, those are actually considered to be a completely different attack.

51:45.560 --> 51:47.760
They're generally called just the 419 attack.

51:47.960 --> 51:48.240
Right.

51:48.240 --> 51:52.920
But more importantly, back to your question, I've not confirmed this, and I've tried my

51:52.920 --> 51:56.580
damage the past couple days to get this, to get some relevant links, so that I'm not

51:56.580 --> 52:02.020
talking completely out of my ass, but I'm told of it, Nigeria does not consider digital

52:02.020 --> 52:03.620
evidence to be admissible in court.

52:04.280 --> 52:06.620
Oh, that's very interesting.

52:07.600 --> 52:12.400
And the majority of the country has such an anti-westerner perspective just from being

52:12.400 --> 52:16.540
on that part of the planet that, number one, they generally don't consider what they do

52:16.540 --> 52:22.420
to be morally wrong, and number two, the police tend to either be organized criminals or they're

52:22.420 --> 52:26.500
bought off by O.C., or they just don't care because they themselves have no love for the

52:26.500 --> 52:26.820
U.S.

52:27.660 --> 52:27.920
Hmm.

52:28.280 --> 52:34.200
Now, Nigeria is the most famous one, again, the 419, as you mentioned, for the area code

52:34.200 --> 52:37.520
in Nigeria, is why they're called that, or the country code, excuse me.

52:39.100 --> 52:40.280
Are there other countries?

52:40.360 --> 52:41.040
Aren't there other countries?

52:41.040 --> 52:46.660
Like, I heard, isn't there one on eBay that's more famous on eBay, even than Nigeria, there's

52:46.660 --> 52:51.160
some, like, I don't know, fucking Latveria or some shit, I don't know, Dr. Doom, I don't

52:51.160 --> 52:51.780
know what the hell.

52:52.180 --> 52:52.720
Isn't there some...

52:52.720 --> 52:52.800
Latvia.

52:53.420 --> 52:53.780
Latvia?

52:53.880 --> 52:54.600
Is that what it is, really?

52:55.240 --> 52:55.440
Yep.

52:55.440 --> 52:55.840
Yep, Latvia.

52:56.200 --> 52:57.100
Country code LV.

52:57.680 --> 52:58.040
LV.

52:58.120 --> 52:59.920
So that's another one to be aware of.

53:00.500 --> 53:05.400
Yeah, and interestingly enough, a lot of fishers are using a bank called the Parex Bank

53:05.400 --> 53:09.140
out of Latvia to funnel through their money through and to launder the money, because

53:09.140 --> 53:14.280
you can buy online through Parex Bank, previously paid credit card numbers, prepaid credit cards,

53:14.420 --> 53:19.960
using credit card numbers, and they are less likely to submit to a U.S.-based subpoena

53:19.960 --> 53:20.660
for that information.

53:21.620 --> 53:23.900
So there's a whole lot of money flowing through Latvia.

53:24.600 --> 53:27.540
Well, and see, there's another interesting thing I did not know.

53:27.620 --> 53:31.700
See, I'm picking some things up on this, even though I still think it's pretty simplified.

53:31.700 --> 53:35.900
All right, so actually, let's kind of go in that direction as far as...

53:35.900 --> 53:36.700
Okay, let's...

53:37.340 --> 53:41.860
I know all of our listeners are all brilliant, but let's assume we have some new listeners

53:41.860 --> 53:45.360
today only that are complete fucking idiotic morons.

53:45.920 --> 53:51.160
Let's do a little public service announcement and kind of give some of the signs of fishing.

53:51.240 --> 53:52.400
We kind of just talked about...

53:52.400 --> 53:54.040
That's why this is kind of a good segue, I guess.

53:54.360 --> 53:58.800
We talked about, you know, the coming from Nigeria or Latvia.

53:58.980 --> 53:59.740
What was it?

54:00.420 --> 54:00.860
Latvia.

54:00.940 --> 54:01.380
Latvia.

54:01.380 --> 54:02.820
A-T-V-I-A.

54:02.920 --> 54:04.220
Dr. Doom's from Latvia.

54:04.380 --> 54:04.920
I think that's what I'm getting.

54:04.920 --> 54:05.740
He totally is.

54:05.820 --> 54:11.080
Yeah, so if you see one from one of those countries, that should at least throw off some warning

54:11.080 --> 54:13.280
signs because they're known.

54:13.380 --> 54:17.920
Now, not necessarily, but I would imagine who's really doing business in those countries.

54:18.040 --> 54:20.100
What reason do you have to do business with those countries?

54:20.140 --> 54:20.840
Let's be honest.

54:21.760 --> 54:22.120
You know?

54:22.120 --> 54:29.540
So, there's some other things that should be giving these away, and these are the things

54:29.540 --> 54:34.880
that make me mad, and make me call people stupid fucking morons, because to me, these

54:34.880 --> 54:37.520
should be obvious things, but they're not to everybody.

54:37.520 --> 54:44.460
Like, if you're one of 50 recipients of an email, odds are it's not real.

54:44.560 --> 54:48.380
It's not singled out to you if 50 other people got the same email, right?

54:48.980 --> 54:49.420
Correct.

54:49.420 --> 54:55.300
Or, if you get the same email from multiple different accounts.

54:55.460 --> 54:57.760
I mean, the 419 scam, for example.

54:57.840 --> 54:59.780
You know how many of those I've gotten in the past week?

55:00.280 --> 55:03.600
Luckily, most of them get filtered, but, I mean, do people, are there people out there

55:03.600 --> 55:10.440
that really see 14 Nigerian princes asking them for their help to smuggle this money out?

55:10.460 --> 55:15.920
Do they really think that there are 14 Nigerian princes who all need their fucking help?

55:15.920 --> 55:22.380
I mean, shouldn't the sheer number of those somehow set off any stop signs?

55:22.520 --> 55:27.080
I mean, do you really believe you hit 27 fucking British lotteries at the same time?

55:27.780 --> 55:29.360
I mean, what kind of luck do you have?

55:29.420 --> 55:33.640
Read my article on hacking the lottery, for crying out loud.

55:33.760 --> 55:34.660
I mean, come on.

55:34.780 --> 55:35.700
What is...

55:35.700 --> 55:37.740
These should be big warning signs.

55:37.780 --> 55:38.220
Am I right?

55:38.800 --> 55:42.360
You're totally right, and I'm not going to give out any names because of the non-disclosure

55:42.360 --> 55:45.620
agreements, blah, blah, blah, but there's one gentleman that we've dealt with.

55:45.920 --> 55:51.360
Normally, we don't deal with the company that I work at, but I'm not going to plug here

55:51.360 --> 55:55.720
because that's lame, but one of the people that we've tried to help was this gentleman

55:55.720 --> 55:59.840
who had fallen victim to a 419 scam, and so we started investigating, and we're going

55:59.840 --> 56:04.020
through a credit history, and we're talking with him, and he tells us, well, you know,

56:04.340 --> 56:08.140
I didn't think that this would happen again, but here we are, and I'm like, well, wait a minute.

56:08.620 --> 56:09.680
You said a word that we don't like.

56:09.720 --> 56:12.360
You said, again, you need to tell me that this has happened before.

56:12.360 --> 56:15.840
Oh, yeah, I lost $10,000 to one of these guys, but you what?

56:16.920 --> 56:18.420
And you went back for more?

56:18.540 --> 56:18.900
Thank you.

56:18.940 --> 56:20.000
May I please have another?

56:20.720 --> 56:21.020
Yeah.

56:21.960 --> 56:24.000
Oh, you've got to be kidding me.

56:24.520 --> 56:29.620
No, it happens, and this is probably the same people who's responding, dear sir, let me tell

56:29.620 --> 56:35.000
tell me about your IPTV application, because apparently they've got more fucking money

56:35.000 --> 56:36.040
than they know what to do with.

56:36.880 --> 56:41.440
You know, and to me, like, if you fall for it and lose your money or lose some money,

56:41.560 --> 56:42.780
that's your punishment.

56:43.400 --> 56:43.640
Yeah.

56:43.900 --> 56:47.520
That's God's way of punishing you for being stupid.

56:47.880 --> 56:51.460
It's a very hard and expensive lesson to learn.

56:51.460 --> 56:54.140
I'm joking, of course.

56:54.200 --> 56:55.120
Nobody deserves that.

56:55.180 --> 56:58.060
I'm just joking, but damn it, sometimes don't you just feel like that?

56:58.940 --> 57:00.180
Oh, my gosh.

57:00.380 --> 57:02.980
Okay, and, okay, another big sign.

57:03.680 --> 57:08.960
If it's filled with spelling mistakes and grammar mistakes, sometimes intentional to get around

57:08.960 --> 57:13.440
the spam filters, but sometimes because they just speak broken English or whatever, do you

57:13.440 --> 57:18.200
really think if this guy's a brilliant investor who makes millions of dollars and you have all

57:18.200 --> 57:23.840
these testimonials from people that they can't spell or complete a proper sentence?

57:25.140 --> 57:28.020
I mean, credibility, does credibility come into play?

57:30.140 --> 57:31.140
It has to.

57:31.820 --> 57:36.380
You know, I would hope so, and I want to believe so with every ounce of my being, but then again,

57:36.460 --> 57:40.720
refer to the guy who fell for it twice in a row.

57:41.220 --> 57:43.040
And, you know, actually, I kind of have a story.

57:43.040 --> 57:47.880
I mean, I think I told this story a couple years ago on the show about somebody who came

57:47.880 --> 57:51.880
to our, let's see, this was, I think, the Fort Lauderdale 2600 meeting.

57:52.680 --> 57:54.900
We had a hire a hacker guy show up.

57:54.940 --> 57:58.440
We have the hire a hacker people show up once in a while wanting us to do their dirty work

57:58.440 --> 58:00.120
or whatever, and we had one guy come down.

58:01.880 --> 58:08.980
We'll politely call him a very much older, an older gentleman who had sent money for some

58:08.980 --> 58:13.080
offshore investment club, quote-unquote investment club.

58:13.520 --> 58:18.360
First of all, offshore, warning sign, signal, beep, beep, ding, ding, ding, ding, watch the

58:18.360 --> 58:19.000
fuck out.

58:19.500 --> 58:19.940
All right?

58:20.240 --> 58:22.240
That was one of our signals from earlier, right?

58:22.300 --> 58:23.140
We already got that.

58:23.140 --> 58:26.420
Sending money ahead of time.

58:27.740 --> 58:29.320
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, warning.

58:29.560 --> 58:29.760
Hello?

58:30.120 --> 58:33.680
You sending money ahead of time for something for paybacks later on?

58:33.740 --> 58:33.920
Hello?

58:34.060 --> 58:34.700
Pyramid scheme?

58:34.820 --> 58:35.280
Watch out.

58:36.580 --> 58:41.180
Well, this guy came to the meeting because he sent money to this offshore, and then he

58:41.180 --> 58:45.280
sent some more money to the offshore, and then he sent some more money, and he never got

58:45.280 --> 58:48.920
anything back, and now he wants to go after them and chase these guys down.

58:48.920 --> 58:53.960
He comes with this big portfolio, this manila folder with a bunch of printouts of websites

58:53.960 --> 58:59.320
and email addresses and stuff like that, wanting us to go hunt this guy down.

58:59.400 --> 59:05.320
This guy literally, he wanted us to physically, he was serious, he wanted us to physically go

59:05.320 --> 59:07.160
find out where this guy was in the Bahamas.

59:08.000 --> 59:12.360
He wanted us to track him down, phone number, address, and he wanted us to go down there and

59:12.360 --> 59:12.780
collect.

59:12.940 --> 59:17.500
Not only were we supposed to hack to find out where he's at, he wanted us to go collect

59:17.500 --> 59:21.980
on this bitch, like we're the bouncers, which, you know what, sounds actually kind of interesting.

59:22.080 --> 59:24.860
I was up for it, but, yeah, you know, I didn't have time.

59:25.560 --> 59:30.900
Well, he sees somebody like this and you say, okay, where do I want to go vacation this month?

59:31.560 --> 59:35.820
And then, oh yeah, the Bahamas, he's staying at the Doubletree Hotel or whatever the fuck

59:35.820 --> 59:36.480
they have out there.

59:36.480 --> 59:42.000
You know, if I was evil, if I really wanted to have been a dick, I would have said, sure,

59:42.160 --> 59:43.160
I can find him for you.

59:43.280 --> 59:45.680
I'll just need $5,000 cash up front.

59:46.240 --> 59:46.480
Yeah.

59:47.340 --> 59:49.620
He's going to fall for it, you dumb fuck.

59:51.120 --> 59:58.580
Oh, just give me access to your bank account so I can pull out a nominal fee for amenities

59:58.580 --> 59:59.920
along the way.

01:00:00.260 --> 01:00:02.180
And, yeah, we'll go hunt him down for you.

01:00:02.620 --> 01:00:03.320
And then I'll just call him.

01:00:03.320 --> 01:00:07.580
Yeah, I'll call him once every week or so from the Bahamas or from Nigeria or where

01:00:07.580 --> 01:00:11.000
the fuck I end up, saying, yeah, we're still hunting him down, everything's going well.

01:00:11.700 --> 01:00:13.060
We need a little more money, though.

01:00:13.120 --> 01:00:14.360
The account's running kind of low.

01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:14.700
Yeah.

01:00:15.060 --> 01:00:16.320
We're really close, really.

01:00:16.460 --> 01:00:17.200
We're really close.

01:00:17.200 --> 01:00:21.340
But we need another inner tube for the river, I mean, for the jeep.

01:00:21.580 --> 01:00:21.900
Exactly.

01:00:21.900 --> 01:00:22.400
For the jeep.

01:00:22.820 --> 01:00:25.440
Yeah, we need some more guns mounted to the front of the car.

01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:27.900
If we do get him, it'll be good.

01:00:28.180 --> 01:00:28.980
Yeah, exactly.

01:00:29.100 --> 01:00:30.620
Oh, we'll bring his head back on a spike.

01:00:30.620 --> 01:00:34.520
We think that he's hanging out in Tomorrowland at Disney World.

01:00:34.820 --> 01:00:36.940
We can't be sure, though, so we'll need to go check it out.

01:00:37.080 --> 01:00:37.440
All right.

01:00:38.540 --> 01:00:39.360
Oh, all right.

01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:39.820
Well, you know what?

01:00:39.820 --> 01:00:42.440
There's some other obvious tells for e-mail.

01:00:43.600 --> 01:00:45.660
Broken images or links, if it's just sloppy.

01:00:47.260 --> 01:00:51.540
Not necessarily, but it's, again, a warning flag, and it's a matter of putting all these together.

01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:57.380
And that's a warning sign because these sites get taken down pretty fast, right?

01:00:57.980 --> 01:00:58.340
Correct.

01:00:58.340 --> 01:01:06.000
So by the time you actually read yours, the site's been taken down, and therefore all your images and stuff or whatnot are broke, are broken, so.

01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:15.200
According to the FBI in our recent talks with them, the 90% of phishing return investment happens within the first 48 hours of the e-mail being sent.

01:01:15.860 --> 01:01:17.840
After that, it's pretty much exponential decay.

01:01:18.240 --> 01:01:20.720
They almost get nothing after three or four days.

01:01:20.720 --> 01:01:25.200
Which goes back to what I kind of said earlier about the .05% or whatever.

01:01:25.660 --> 01:01:27.180
They're happy if they just get a couple.

01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:33.160
I mean, if they get one guy, and they sucker him out at $10, $20, $50 grand, that's a pretty big payday.

01:01:33.740 --> 01:01:34.240
Yeah, definitely.

01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:37.400
Especially in Nigeria, where our dollar is like $10 to $20 of theirs.

01:01:37.400 --> 01:01:38.160
Oh, man.

01:01:38.260 --> 01:01:44.560
You know how much whatever the fuck they cornmeal or shit they have down there.

01:01:45.820 --> 01:01:46.220
Water.

01:01:46.900 --> 01:01:47.800
Yeah, exactly.

01:01:48.460 --> 01:01:50.420
That could go a long freaking way down there.

01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:52.300
Let's see.

01:01:52.600 --> 01:01:55.740
What's some other things that come to mind, like some other warning signs?

01:01:55.860 --> 01:02:00.280
Like, if it's legitimate, they're probably not going to be on GeoCities, right?

01:02:00.900 --> 01:02:01.220
Right.

01:02:01.220 --> 01:02:04.640
You know, they're not going to be on some other free hosting whatever.

01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:12.320
So, if you see anything from GeoCities or fucking MySpace, that's probably not legitimate.

01:02:15.140 --> 01:02:17.980
Or, how about the TK sites?

01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:23.120
Yeah, the TK, the CX, the .ro, the .ru.

01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:25.220
The .lv, is that what you said?

01:02:25.500 --> 01:02:26.580
Yeah, .lv.

01:02:27.220 --> 01:02:29.900
Indonesia's gotten really popular with fishing.

01:02:29.900 --> 01:02:33.360
I think they're one of the I-N-I-L, something like that.

01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:35.840
Yeah, .cx.

01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:42.700
I am so sure that your people are going to really give their money to the site that runs parallel with the GoatSea guy.

01:02:43.220 --> 01:02:43.660
Right.

01:02:43.780 --> 01:02:45.100
I mean, come on, people.

01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:46.400
Seriously.

01:02:46.640 --> 01:02:48.740
I mean, I don't know.

01:02:49.160 --> 01:02:54.080
Again, our listeners, I like to think, know better.

01:02:54.180 --> 01:02:57.400
All these things are just silly redundant to them.

01:02:57.400 --> 01:03:05.360
But, for those of you who don't know any better, all of those things should send off some warnings and at least make you question it.

01:03:05.860 --> 01:03:10.220
And, by all means, if you get ripped off, don't fall for it again.

01:03:10.220 --> 01:03:21.880
If you get ripped off, what you need to do is unplug the network cable to the back of the computer, find a box in your closet, throw that shit back in there, and take it home because you're too fucking stupid to own a computer.

01:03:22.120 --> 01:03:22.380
Yeah.

01:03:22.860 --> 01:03:23.140
Yeah.

01:03:23.140 --> 01:03:25.560
That's my technical advice.

01:03:25.620 --> 01:03:26.120
That's a procedure.

01:03:26.900 --> 01:03:27.540
There you go.

01:03:28.620 --> 01:03:29.600
And, Giff Robert?

01:03:29.600 --> 01:03:35.640
It's worth mentioning, though, that there's a lot of piss-ant script kiddies that are doing this and that are just looking for the ROI.

01:03:35.640 --> 01:03:45.580
But there's also the really hardcore organized guys who do this as a living, and they tend to be funded by, you know, some guns out in Russia or Romania or wherever.

01:03:46.060 --> 01:03:57.700
And they'll buy fuzzy domains, which is a domain that looks like the victim, like, looks close enough to where if you're only half-assed glancing at the status bar in the bottom of your browser, that it might look legit.

01:03:57.700 --> 01:04:16.180
For example, updates.images.com.myspace.com slash boobs or some other app key or URL-encoded images, they'll set up something that looks close enough, like the original, that people will fall for it.

01:04:16.280 --> 01:04:21.020
One of my favorite ones from MySpace is R-N-Y-space.

01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:23.520
So the R and the N next to each other will look like an N.

01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:24.720
That's leet, though.

01:04:24.740 --> 01:04:25.440
I like that one.

01:04:26.060 --> 01:04:26.740
That's pretty cool.

01:04:26.740 --> 01:04:32.620
Or, like, I was thinking even simpler, like PayPal, P-A-Y-P-A-L-L with two L's.

01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:35.200
People might not, that might not grab your attention.

01:04:36.320 --> 01:04:48.440
And actually, since you mentioned it, I didn't even think about this as worth mentioning on the show, but this is a good point, is in your browser toolbar, a lot of the browsers now are incorporating anti-phishing technology, whatever that means.

01:04:48.520 --> 01:04:50.800
It fucking flags the site as a phishing site.

01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:55.820
I don't know if that's really worth buzz-wording it as anti-phishing technology, but.

01:04:55.820 --> 01:04:56.940
It's snake oil.

01:04:57.140 --> 01:04:57.440
Yeah.

01:04:57.800 --> 01:04:58.620
But it works.

01:04:58.740 --> 01:04:59.820
I mean, that's a good thing.

01:05:00.080 --> 01:05:01.300
It is useful.

01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:06.820
If you've got a big yellow bar in your browser in your URL window, that's a warning sign.

01:05:06.820 --> 01:05:15.280
And, well, look, unfortunately, the heuristics aren't there enough to the point where the browser can say, oh, this is paypoll.com and not PayPal, so this is probably phishing.

01:05:15.740 --> 01:05:25.980
Although, generally, too, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you can send email to the show, is they will then alert some sort of phishing incident response team of the URL of that site for later investigation.

01:05:25.980 --> 01:05:30.440
But it's an after-the-fact sort of defense, so what's the point?

01:05:30.980 --> 01:05:38.040
Well, and isn't there, isn't it like, I want to say Secunia or Netcraft, I think, that have.

01:05:38.080 --> 01:05:39.000
Netcraft has one, yep.

01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:46.840
Yeah, that it's more of a user-submitted thing, and if enough users say, hey, this site is a phishing site, it'll flag it for you.

01:05:47.320 --> 01:05:50.160
But, again, that's reactive, not proactive.

01:05:50.360 --> 01:06:04.960
It's hard to be proactive without having a lot of false negatives, which, again, that's a common technological hurdle, and especially with email and anything technologically related is reducing or eliminating false positives.

01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:07.420
And it's just not completely possible.

01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:11.620
No, it's the same as spam filters or any other anti-nuisance technology.

01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:14.420
It works pretty well, but it doesn't work well enough.

01:06:15.180 --> 01:06:25.400
And you have to think that if someone's stupid enough to fall for a PayPal phishing, they don't even have PayPal, then what good is more technology going to do than on the client side?

01:06:26.080 --> 01:06:28.060
You can't upgrade ignorance.

01:06:29.520 --> 01:06:32.320
No, but it sure as shit gets downgraded quite often.

01:06:32.780 --> 01:06:34.240
Yeah, no lie.

01:06:34.240 --> 01:06:36.400
You can throw more money at the problem, for sure.

01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:38.220
Yeah, but, yeah.

01:06:38.680 --> 01:06:40.180
It doesn't always take, does it?

01:06:40.600 --> 01:06:48.720
Well, since we're kind of moving into more of the technological, boy, where the fuck am I getting my speech impediment from today?

01:06:49.200 --> 01:06:51.740
Let's look at the technical standpoint, I guess.

01:06:51.900 --> 01:06:53.780
I suck at the talking.

01:06:54.040 --> 01:06:55.420
You suck at the verbal.

01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:56.600
Oh, no.

01:06:57.060 --> 01:06:59.200
No, that sounds dirty, sexual.

01:06:59.480 --> 01:06:59.920
Yeah, no.

01:07:00.720 --> 01:07:01.280
Let's not do it.

01:07:01.280 --> 01:07:01.900
Let's not go there.

01:07:01.900 --> 01:07:03.020
I won't drop the talk for anything.

01:07:03.020 --> 01:07:08.160
Yeah, those pictures are supposed to be private, and I'd appreciate it if you keep them that way.

01:07:08.500 --> 01:07:08.740
Okay.

01:07:08.740 --> 01:07:14.800
But, yeah, technically speaking, again, I ask the question, what's the big fucking deal?

01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:17.020
What is so complicated technically about this?

01:07:17.040 --> 01:07:17.960
You get an email, right?

01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:20.260
Okay, let's focus on the email phishing.

01:07:20.900 --> 01:07:21.720
You get an email.

01:07:21.720 --> 01:07:27.520
Like, the other stuff is, okay, let me back up and phrase my words correctly here.

01:07:27.680 --> 01:07:32.260
I talked about non-email phishing, phone calls, face-to-face pulling of information.

01:07:32.680 --> 01:07:37.520
That, to me, is more an art of social engineering.

01:07:37.520 --> 01:07:47.820
It's convincing people, tricking people, convincing people by your actions and speaking to do something, to take some other action.

01:07:48.520 --> 01:08:05.000
In email, you're doing that, but you have the added anchor, I guess, of people being able to look physically, I guess not physically, virtually, at your email, breaking it down.

01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:07.900
Where did it come from? Are there typos and spelling mistakes?

01:08:07.980 --> 01:08:09.840
You don't have typos when you're speaking.

01:08:10.720 --> 01:08:18.660
Grammar helps, but even that, sometimes you intentionally want to use bad grammar if you're simulating someone from another country or someone young or someone whatever.

01:08:18.820 --> 01:08:20.800
There's a lot of reasons you may intentionally want to do it.

01:08:21.220 --> 01:08:31.700
But in email, you're laying a lot of, I don't know if evidence is the best word, but you're laying a lot of clues out there, like the things we mentioned earlier, that can give it away.

01:08:31.700 --> 01:08:37.960
Anyway, so why is analyzing email phishing such a big deal?

01:08:38.100 --> 01:08:40.300
What is complicated about it that I am missing?

01:08:40.480 --> 01:08:44.240
Explain to me why it's a big deal to do a view source of the email.

01:08:44.900 --> 01:08:47.760
What are we really going to get out of that that we don't already know?

01:08:47.960 --> 01:08:53.660
I mean, you give me a piece of phishing email that you've gotten, I'll look at it for three minutes, I got it.

01:08:54.080 --> 01:08:55.500
It's not that complex to me.

01:08:55.600 --> 01:08:56.840
Am I oversimplifying?

01:08:56.900 --> 01:08:59.020
I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it, but explain why.

01:08:59.020 --> 01:09:06.660
Well, you're making an assumption that the majority of the people understand how the right-click button works, and this is some pretty new technology.

01:09:07.620 --> 01:09:08.260
I mean, it hasn't been out a long time.

01:09:08.260 --> 01:09:09.520
Well, Mac users still don't have it.

01:09:10.300 --> 01:09:10.600
Yeah.

01:09:11.040 --> 01:09:16.900
Yeah, Macs, well, you know, I'm not going to say anything about Mac users because a lot of my friends use it, moving right along.

01:09:16.900 --> 01:09:30.140
But one thing that's worth mentioning, and it's kind of a sidetrack, is that the majority of successful phishing attacks, and I know you might have a problem with that term when I go into what I'm going to say, is it's all malware-related.

01:09:30.140 --> 01:09:48.160
The majority of it, I would say upwards of 80%, is harvested as a result of O-Day exploits in the Internet Explorer browser that drop malware that doesn't grab keys, doesn't key log, because phishers don't really give a shit if you're chatting with your girlfriend over IM and having cyber sex or something.

01:09:48.160 --> 01:10:10.020
What they're grabbing is the forms from your browser, so any type of post that you're making to Hotmail, to Yahoo, to PayPal, anywhere, all tends to be captured and then touched to a PHP script on some foreign server somewhere, and the majority of the people who get phished don't ever realize that they've done something wrong.

01:10:10.120 --> 01:10:14.780
They can go their entire lives without ever actually opening an email and still get completely owned.

01:10:14.780 --> 01:10:24.620
And usually it's through peer-to-peer networks, people who don't understand that britneyspears.mp3.exe is not, in fact, her latest single.

01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:28.260
And the thing is that nothing happens.

01:10:28.440 --> 01:10:31.740
You know, they double-click the binary, their window screen might refresh for a second.

01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:36.140
If that, nothing happens, they go, huh, that's a better keep looking for Britney.

01:10:36.340 --> 01:10:37.620
And they move right along.

01:10:37.780 --> 01:10:38.260
That's weird.

01:10:38.400 --> 01:10:40.660
That download didn't come down successfully.

01:10:40.980 --> 01:10:41.340
Delete.

01:10:41.960 --> 01:10:42.580
Too late.

01:10:42.700 --> 01:10:42.960
Your own.

01:10:43.660 --> 01:10:44.760
And they move right along.

01:10:45.120 --> 01:10:49.980
That's really, actually, that's kind of interesting because I didn't poorly think of that angle as phishing.

01:10:50.120 --> 01:11:11.880
But if you're intentionally putting out a file like that for the purpose of people getting it, that is absolutely a definition of phishing, going back to that global definition we did earlier, which is, again, why maybe some of my angst or some of my anger against it is because it's specifically targeted, I guess, now that I've analyzed it a little bit more on the show here,

01:11:11.880 --> 01:11:15.220
is targeted towards the email phishing.

01:11:15.220 --> 01:11:17.080
And that's the part that really seems to annoy me more.

01:11:17.080 --> 01:11:20.420
Because you shouldn't fall for that so easily.

01:11:20.420 --> 01:11:31.660
But the other good point you made along those same lines, or more related to that, was you're saying, I mean, are you getting, like a PHP script, you have to browse to a page to do that.

01:11:31.700 --> 01:11:35.120
You have to actually activate, you have to go there out of your way to do that.

01:11:35.120 --> 01:11:42.220
And if those flags that came through earlier that we talked about didn't trigger it for you, then, yeah, I don't have a lot of sympathy for you.

01:11:42.740 --> 01:11:45.180
Now, but you said that they're using, like, some zero days.

01:11:45.320 --> 01:11:53.120
Like, are you saying they're executing some script that runs automatically just by viewing the email in some cases?

01:11:53.120 --> 01:11:55.280
Are you familiar with the WMF exploit?

01:11:55.520 --> 01:11:58.920
Well, here, I'll just real quick, I'll go over it for all the folks who may not know.

01:11:59.300 --> 01:12:06.760
It takes advantage of the way Windows handles certain types of media that it will just blindly trust and arbitrarily execute.

01:12:07.240 --> 01:12:18.460
And this exploit takes advantage, I think it's a heap overflow, but it's irrelevant, and basically causes your computer to then, once you've got the exploit, to download a series of other tools.

01:12:18.460 --> 01:12:32.220
And it's never just one, it's like cockroaches, they usually end up uploading about 10 to 12 different backdoors to your system, so that even if you get, you know, three to seven of them with outerwear or whatever, there's still a few hanging out in your system that just haven't been identified yet.

01:12:33.020 --> 01:12:37.220
So, it really is not as simple as I'm trying to make it out to be.

01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:39.180
Well, in some cases it is.

01:12:39.380 --> 01:12:47.320
Sometimes it's as simple as viewing source, looking at it, and you see, oh, look, it's going to paypull.com instead of paypal.com.

01:12:47.320 --> 01:12:50.680
Sometimes it is that easy, but not always is what you're saying.

01:12:51.160 --> 01:12:51.520
Correct.

01:12:52.720 --> 01:12:53.380
That's a good point.

01:12:53.380 --> 01:12:58.100
I'm going to backtrack a little bit in regards to web-based phishing attacks or email-based phishing.

01:12:58.460 --> 01:13:07.660
Another thing that we're seeing that makes it really hard to mitigate is this malware that people are getting installed on their computers via whatever method.

01:13:07.660 --> 01:13:21.820
They also set up web servers and set up IRC networks, and they will update their local IP address to this malicious DNS server, so that even if they've got 40 of these web servers with phishing attacks that all go to the same place,

01:13:22.200 --> 01:13:29.620
if 39 of them still get taken down, they've got that revolving door DNS that just says, okay, fine, and then switches over right to the next system.

01:13:29.620 --> 01:13:35.180
And so at any given time, one URL could conceivably point to as many as 40 to 50 machines.

01:13:36.620 --> 01:13:46.180
Right, and, you know, we could, at this point, maybe make a segue into another topic, specifically botnets.

01:13:47.060 --> 01:13:51.660
I know it would be a good segue for that, but we're not going to have time to do that on this episode.

01:13:51.780 --> 01:13:53.860
We're going to have to make that a topic for a future episode.

01:13:54.360 --> 01:13:54.800
Absolutely.

01:13:54.800 --> 01:14:03.500
But technically speaking, is there anything else to mention or that I'm oversimplifying or that needs to be clarified at this point?

01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:06.040
Well, let's review it real fast.

01:14:06.200 --> 01:14:10.160
Email-based, web-based, malware-based, being a moron.

01:14:10.960 --> 01:14:12.120
No, I think that pretty much covers it.

01:14:12.320 --> 01:14:16.320
Yeah, but 95 percent – tell me if my estimates are wrong.

01:14:16.640 --> 01:14:23.700
95 percent of them – I would even say 99 percent of them, 98 percent of them, I'll say, come from being a moron.

01:14:23.700 --> 01:14:38.780
Or I'll be polite, come from being a moron, or simply being uneducated or ignorant about scam or what's normal and what's not normal.

01:14:39.340 --> 01:14:40.660
I can't be polite.

01:14:40.760 --> 01:14:41.440
You're a fucking idiot.

01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:41.840
I'm sorry.

01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:42.440
I can't do it.

01:14:43.060 --> 01:14:43.540
I try.

01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:47.900
I mean, we're seeing a shift in trends that it's not so much just a tricky user base.

01:14:48.040 --> 01:14:49.740
It's more of a – it's moving the malware.

01:14:49.740 --> 01:14:55.840
There are more and more people, even grandmas, starting to realize that don't click the link from the e-mail login from the browser.

01:14:56.620 --> 01:15:06.220
And so there's big money in custom malware operations where people will write – remember Netbus or Sub7, which was a remote-access Trojan that looked like a whack-a-mole game.

01:15:06.300 --> 01:15:06.740
For sure.

01:15:06.740 --> 01:15:12.260
And it would install, you know, you would open people CD-ROMs or whatever, close them, thing kind of concept.

01:15:12.440 --> 01:15:15.440
It's just any time you're masquerading someone.

01:15:16.500 --> 01:15:29.440
But I saw some interesting statistics on FlashDot not too long ago that basically said that 70 percent of people who were shown phishing e-mails and regular e-mails side-by-side were unable to discern the difference.

01:15:29.900 --> 01:15:31.300
Nobody got them all correct.

01:15:31.440 --> 01:15:32.840
Oh, get the fuck out of here.

01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:34.700
You know, I got to find the link to that.

01:15:34.700 --> 01:15:36.200
Give me – I was going to say, no, bullshit.

01:15:36.340 --> 01:15:37.360
I'm calling bullshit on.

01:15:37.360 --> 01:15:38.380
I'm calling shenanigans.

01:15:38.980 --> 01:15:39.300
Bullshit.

01:15:39.620 --> 01:15:40.360
Give me the URL.

01:15:40.540 --> 01:15:42.600
We're going to put this in the show notes and in the forums.

01:15:43.120 --> 01:15:44.020
I got to see that.

01:15:44.120 --> 01:15:48.180
We're going to – all right, motherfuckers in the forums, we're going to put your asses to the test.

01:15:48.860 --> 01:15:49.820
Put the shit out there.

01:15:49.860 --> 01:15:51.760
Now, we're going to trust you to be honest with your answers.

01:15:52.020 --> 01:15:54.500
I'm going to put a poll or something out there when we find this.

01:15:55.020 --> 01:15:57.360
And let's see how many of our users fall for this.

01:15:57.400 --> 01:15:58.340
And be honest.

01:15:58.420 --> 01:15:59.840
I'll admit it if I fall for them.

01:16:00.100 --> 01:16:01.240
I'm not going to fall for it.

01:16:01.240 --> 01:16:02.740
I'll tell you right fucking now.

01:16:03.120 --> 01:16:04.620
I'm not going to fall for this shit.

01:16:05.040 --> 01:16:07.440
But I'll be open-minded, and I'll be honest if I do.

01:16:07.560 --> 01:16:10.360
I will suck it up and admit I'm a fucking moron.

01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:13.620
Hey, somebody's going to take that clip and loop it a million times.

01:16:14.740 --> 01:16:16.300
I'm a fucking moron.

01:16:16.700 --> 01:16:21.000
It's already a three-and-a-half-minute song on somebody's MySpace.

01:16:23.440 --> 01:16:25.560
Yeah, I'm not having any luck pulling that link up right now.

01:16:25.660 --> 01:16:26.740
We'll get that out there.

01:16:26.740 --> 01:16:32.380
We'll get that out there after the show sometime because, yeah, that's – I'm amazed that that – no.

01:16:32.580 --> 01:16:33.680
I'm not buying it.

01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:34.720
Not for a second.

01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:39.000
Anyway, we're kind of running out here.

01:16:39.140 --> 01:16:42.960
So let's briefly touch on a couple little things.

01:16:43.060 --> 01:16:46.740
And I really don't – can't spend too much time on this anyway because I don't know the answer.

01:16:47.220 --> 01:16:49.840
But whose problem is this really?

01:16:49.840 --> 01:16:55.540
I mean there's a lot of companies and people that spend a lot of money researching and investigating, email phishing.

01:16:56.140 --> 01:16:57.320
Whose job is that?

01:16:57.580 --> 01:17:03.480
I mean is it PayPal's problem if someone else in Nigeria is phishing using PayPal's name?

01:17:03.480 --> 01:17:07.980
Is it PayPal's problem morally, legally?

01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:12.520
I mean why should PayPal care?

01:17:12.820 --> 01:17:13.480
Or do they?

01:17:14.940 --> 01:17:15.820
Do they care?

01:17:15.900 --> 01:17:18.800
I'm sure they do to some extent because their ass is hanging out the window on the matter.

01:17:19.440 --> 01:17:19.940
Is it –

01:17:19.940 --> 01:17:20.660
But it's not them.

01:17:20.880 --> 01:17:22.800
Between you and me, is it their fault?

01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:23.440
Fuck no.

01:17:23.640 --> 01:17:24.300
Of course not.

01:17:24.460 --> 01:17:24.720
Right.

01:17:24.760 --> 01:17:26.960
If you're too stupid to –

01:17:26.960 --> 01:17:29.120
Between you and me and the thousands of listeners.

01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:31.300
I'm sorry, go ahead.

01:17:31.300 --> 01:17:34.380
I'm sorry, I said between you, me, and the thousands of listeners, yes?

01:17:34.880 --> 01:17:35.940
Yeah, yeah, we get it.

01:17:36.040 --> 01:17:41.120
But I mean it's the same thing as if your kid's in Walmart and he pockets the newest G.I. Joe and walks out of there.

01:17:41.680 --> 01:17:44.220
You know, and this is a bad example but I'm going to run with it.

01:17:44.680 --> 01:17:51.540
Whose fault is it – who's got the onus and generally considered is the parent's responsibility because they should have educated them.

01:17:52.960 --> 01:17:57.200
As PayPal or as a larger corporation, you pretty much can't trust users.

01:17:57.200 --> 01:18:00.780
I mean that's the golden rule of security is never trust user input.

01:18:01.300 --> 01:18:11.380
So – but at the end of the day, they've still got people in their public relations department and they've got their human resources and everybody else with their thumb up their butt trying to say, okay, well, whose fault is this?

01:18:11.420 --> 01:18:13.860
Because you sure can't expect the users to get wiser.

01:18:14.400 --> 01:18:18.660
It goes back to the part I'm saying there's always going to be another idiot born in another second.

01:18:18.660 --> 01:18:19.280
Right, right.

01:18:19.440 --> 01:18:23.860
Now, what about – I mean are there any cases that you know of?

01:18:23.920 --> 01:18:27.360
Again, we may not know the answer to this and if somebody does, by all means email us.

01:18:27.800 --> 01:18:38.160
Have there been any cases where a company, again PayPal for an example, has been sued by somebody who got phished by a third party or whatever?

01:18:38.160 --> 01:18:44.920
I mean is there any – not judicial – is there any legal liability on behalf of PayPal?

01:18:45.020 --> 01:18:50.600
Because, again, it's not their fault if some third party person pretends to whatever.

01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:53.660
I mean to me it's not PayPal's fault.

01:18:53.660 --> 01:19:05.520
However, to a certain extent they do have – they do have an obligation of some kind to at least put up warnings that says,

01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:10.780
warning, PayPal will never ask for your email or ask for your password via email, etc., etc.

01:19:12.540 --> 01:19:20.380
I mean have there been any cases – have there been any cases yet and do you think there ever will be if somebody's suing a company that didn't actually commit anything?

01:19:20.380 --> 01:19:28.120
Because I'm worried that that's the direction in our legally sue-crazy country that we live in here in the United States these days.

01:19:28.660 --> 01:19:30.140
Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth.

01:19:31.080 --> 01:19:36.620
There's not been a case that I know of, at least that is to say, that no one's made a big enough stink to get a lot of media attention.

01:19:37.140 --> 01:19:40.640
But I expect that to change because, like you said, America is sue-crazy.

01:19:41.120 --> 01:19:44.100
And I've seen people win wackier court cases.

01:19:44.100 --> 01:19:51.840
I have to expect there to be an example in the near future where they will be found, at least to some level, legally liable

01:19:51.840 --> 01:19:56.580
because maybe they didn't make their warning message in size 47 font and bright red.

01:19:56.840 --> 01:19:57.120
Right.

01:19:58.080 --> 01:20:00.460
Hopefully that won't happen to that extreme.

01:20:00.600 --> 01:20:01.480
But I would not – you're right.

01:20:01.540 --> 01:20:02.380
I wouldn't be surprised.

01:20:02.480 --> 01:20:03.520
I'd be ashamed if anything.

01:20:03.840 --> 01:20:06.720
But, yeah, we won't go too far in that direction, I guess.

01:20:06.720 --> 01:20:11.560
The only other thing I kind of thought about mentioning, and I think we've already done it throughout the episode,

01:20:11.840 --> 01:20:23.080
is some examples of this, like definitions of fishing not online versions, like we talked about, you know, phone calls or real-life fishing.

01:20:23.220 --> 01:20:28.660
I mean, there's real-world fishing going on, like you said earlier about the wallet inspector, which was great.

01:20:28.660 --> 01:20:34.140
But, yeah, there's people buying – there are people buying the Brooklyn Bridge every couple days, right?

01:20:34.140 --> 01:20:38.580
I mean, these real-life fishing rip-offs, scams, whatever you want to call them, are happening.

01:20:39.240 --> 01:20:44.480
I mean, there's – I see things on the news occasionally about these homeless people out in the street that are begging for money,

01:20:44.620 --> 01:20:51.860
and they follow them, and they go home to their nice big house with their BMW in the driveway where they completely fished you into giving them money.

01:20:52.020 --> 01:20:54.020
I mean, these are – these are fishing, right?

01:20:54.060 --> 01:20:55.020
These are examples of fishing.

01:20:55.160 --> 01:20:57.240
It's just that this is real world.

01:20:57.300 --> 01:21:02.720
Or like the ones – I think this is a great one, a guy dressing like a valet that just stands in front of a restaurant,

01:21:02.720 --> 01:21:05.360
and you hand him your keys, and he steals your car?

01:21:05.540 --> 01:21:07.600
And he just walks out of your Ferrari or drives off.

01:21:07.680 --> 01:21:10.020
Yeah, that's – those are real-life examples of fishing.

01:21:10.100 --> 01:21:10.580
Am I wrong?

01:21:11.040 --> 01:21:12.140
Yeah, that's absolutely correct.

01:21:12.340 --> 01:21:17.280
Is there really any different – I mean, those are as ridiculous and stupid to me as some of the e-mail ones,

01:21:17.320 --> 01:21:20.280
which is why I get so flustered about the whole thing.

01:21:20.380 --> 01:21:22.220
But it's the same damn thing.

01:21:22.280 --> 01:21:23.340
It really is to me.

01:21:23.400 --> 01:21:25.500
They're both – they're all that stupid to me.

01:21:25.900 --> 01:21:26.940
I see the zero-day.

01:21:26.940 --> 01:21:31.540
Anyway, I'll admit that you've changed my opinion somewhat in that the zero-day exploits,

01:21:31.620 --> 01:21:32.940
some people might not know any better.

01:21:33.500 --> 01:21:34.320
You open an e-mail.

01:21:34.480 --> 01:21:38.300
But see, again, that comes to a level of experience of the user and whatnot,

01:21:38.500 --> 01:21:42.720
and I don't run any scripts or even have images displayed on any of my e-mail

01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:45.260
because I know that kind of thing can happen.

01:21:45.640 --> 01:21:49.340
First thing I'll do is I can see where it came from, see the subject line,

01:21:50.180 --> 01:21:52.880
and does it sound fishy, like, hey, hot stuff?

01:21:52.880 --> 01:21:53.360
Guess what?

01:21:53.840 --> 01:21:58.160
Nobody, except for you, sends me e-mail that says, hey, hot stuff.

01:21:58.720 --> 01:22:00.880
You said you weren't going to tell them about that on the show.

01:22:01.200 --> 01:22:01.560
Don't worry.

01:22:01.620 --> 01:22:02.160
I'll edit that out.

01:22:02.200 --> 01:22:02.600
Trust me.

01:22:02.700 --> 01:22:03.300
Okay, okay.

01:22:04.200 --> 01:22:08.620
So if I see that in there, I immediately get, you know, flags go up, warnings go up.

01:22:08.760 --> 01:22:12.340
Or if it does look realistic, like, you know, the ones that really annoy me

01:22:12.340 --> 01:22:17.340
because it makes me have to at least look is, hey, you asked for this.

01:22:17.460 --> 01:22:21.660
Or, you know, like the ones that use R-E colon, like they're replying to something you said.

01:22:21.660 --> 01:22:28.840
But it has to be believable, like, R-E, here's that file, or something like that, you know?

01:22:29.420 --> 01:22:31.740
Then you have to say, okay, well, there's a flag up,

01:22:32.440 --> 01:22:36.460
but it could be Savant sending me a text file of something we talked about.

01:22:36.540 --> 01:22:37.420
You know, it could be real.

01:22:37.900 --> 01:22:41.100
But that's why then I'll go look at it and don't execute any scripts,

01:22:41.280 --> 01:22:43.740
don't execute any attachments, for crying out loud.

01:22:43.740 --> 01:22:50.360
And I guess we'll end this episode even, not only this segment, but this episode with, you know,

01:22:50.420 --> 01:22:54.040
something we always come back to, and I'm not going to preach on it again,

01:22:54.120 --> 01:23:00.400
but quite frankly, it comes back to generally being secure in your online activity.

01:23:00.800 --> 01:23:05.280
Even if you are smart about your emails, have a spyware scanner.

01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:07.040
Have a pop-up blocker.

01:23:07.140 --> 01:23:08.480
Have an adware scanner.

01:23:08.480 --> 01:23:13.360
Have an antivirus installed and updated, because they'll catch a lot of these zero days.

01:23:14.040 --> 01:23:14.140
Yep.

01:23:14.300 --> 01:23:14.980
If you update them frequently.

01:23:14.980 --> 01:23:15.860
Don't use it on Explorer.

01:23:16.300 --> 01:23:18.400
Yeah, there's another message.

01:23:19.120 --> 01:23:24.500
Although, and I don't mean to diss Firefox, but they're having some problems lately with security.

01:23:25.040 --> 01:23:25.480
Oh, yeah.

01:23:25.480 --> 01:23:26.180
They've got issues.

01:23:27.180 --> 01:23:31.500
But they're not high E, so I'm still going to push that out there.

01:23:32.200 --> 01:23:34.720
So, yeah, I guess, you know what, I think that's about it.

01:23:34.780 --> 01:23:39.880
I think we've said everything that needs to be said about fishing, probably more so, but I don't know.

01:23:39.960 --> 01:23:40.980
I can't figure out.

01:23:41.160 --> 01:23:44.840
Another thing is, there are people writing entire books on the subject.

01:23:46.060 --> 01:23:51.880
You know, saying that you're an expert on fishing is, I think Strom said on an episode one time,

01:23:51.940 --> 01:23:53.340
it's like being the tallest midget.

01:23:54.080 --> 01:23:56.840
It's like, to me, you're saying that you're the smartest moron.

01:23:57.540 --> 01:23:58.400
Well, that's great.

01:23:58.500 --> 01:23:59.720
You're still a moron, you know.

01:23:59.720 --> 01:24:03.440
You can be the most beautifully sculpted turd.

01:24:03.720 --> 01:24:10.220
You can take a dump that looks like the Virgin Mary herself, but it's still a piece of shit to the rest of the world.

01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:11.820
It really is.

01:24:12.360 --> 01:24:14.960
Well, let me say this real fast.

01:24:15.040 --> 01:24:20.420
You say the rest of the world, but I must point out that people who are writing these books on fishing are selling a lot of copies.

01:24:20.780 --> 01:24:21.840
Well, and you know what?

01:24:21.980 --> 01:24:22.700
I can't say much.

01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:25.420
Government agencies and financial institutions are thanking them for it firsthand.

01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:28.380
And I can't respond to that.

01:24:28.380 --> 01:24:29.580
You're absolutely right.

01:24:29.680 --> 01:24:33.700
I mean, all I can do is shut up in response, because obviously, there are people that want it.

01:24:34.040 --> 01:24:35.600
So, most of the world...

01:24:35.600 --> 01:24:36.640
There are other people falling for fish.

01:24:37.440 --> 01:24:37.840
Maybe.

01:24:38.100 --> 01:24:39.680
I'm going to end with this.

01:24:39.740 --> 01:24:42.160
How's this for a mind fuck to end the show on?

01:24:42.680 --> 01:24:43.040
Maybe.

01:24:43.040 --> 01:24:43.200
Maybe.

01:24:43.920 --> 01:24:44.320
Maybe.

01:24:44.320 --> 01:24:55.740
Maybe those of you out there that are, I'm going to say, dumb enough to spend $40, $50, $100 or more on a book about fishing got fished your damn selves.

01:24:56.460 --> 01:25:01.400
You've got an episode right here of an hour and a half long that tells you everything you ever wanted to know about fishing for free.

01:25:01.860 --> 01:25:02.880
Downloadable from the site.

01:25:03.220 --> 01:25:06.860
Maybe you got fished and suckered into buying a $40 book or more.

01:25:06.860 --> 01:25:11.580
Anyway, I'll just throw that out there and leave that hanging.

01:25:11.960 --> 01:25:14.000
Hopefully, I don't get you in any trouble for that.

01:25:14.140 --> 01:25:16.200
But, you know, what are you going to do?

01:25:16.280 --> 01:25:17.360
I'm honest on the show.

01:25:17.860 --> 01:25:20.820
I admit, though, that there is some stuff that I picked up on here.

01:25:20.860 --> 01:25:23.040
So, I'll admit that the need is out there.

01:25:23.180 --> 01:25:23.880
It's just...

01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:25.940
I guess what it comes down to is it's not for our listeners.

01:25:26.100 --> 01:25:26.920
It's not for me and you.

01:25:26.960 --> 01:25:27.960
It's for other people.

01:25:28.600 --> 01:25:29.100
There you go.

01:25:29.200 --> 01:25:30.360
And I choose to call them morons.

01:25:30.440 --> 01:25:31.540
But that's just me.

01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:34.120
You better hope they don't listen to the show.

01:25:34.240 --> 01:25:34.620
You know what?

01:25:34.700 --> 01:25:35.460
Fuck them if they do.

01:25:35.460 --> 01:25:36.880
Yeah, fuck them.

01:25:37.000 --> 01:25:37.560
Fuck you all.

01:25:37.840 --> 01:25:38.160
Seriously.

01:25:38.420 --> 01:25:39.160
You know, what are you going to do?

01:25:39.220 --> 01:25:39.640
Fish me?

01:25:40.700 --> 01:25:41.280
Come on.

01:25:41.320 --> 01:25:42.160
Yeah, just disclaimer.

01:25:42.320 --> 01:25:43.820
Don't actually fuck yourself.

01:25:45.140 --> 01:25:49.560
Any or all injuries that you obtain while fucking yourself are no longer the responsibility of DDP,

01:25:49.760 --> 01:25:51.240
Hack Radio, or anybody involved.

01:25:51.440 --> 01:25:52.600
We will not be held liable.

01:25:52.740 --> 01:25:52.920
All right.

01:25:53.020 --> 01:25:53.860
Shout-outs for the week.

01:25:54.580 --> 01:25:57.320
I'll go ahead and do mine so you can think about it.

01:25:57.580 --> 01:25:57.920
Verbal.

01:25:58.040 --> 01:25:58.900
Give shouts out to Verbal.

01:25:58.960 --> 01:25:59.940
Hope he's feeling better.

01:26:00.040 --> 01:26:00.760
Talked to him earlier.

01:26:01.340 --> 01:26:05.260
And to everybody that's participating in the BinRev Mentorship Program.

01:26:05.260 --> 01:26:07.160
And I'm sure you can second me on that one.

01:26:07.240 --> 01:26:07.840
And what else you got?

01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:08.220
Absolutely.

01:26:08.620 --> 01:26:10.940
Well, I definitely want to give a shout-out again to Verbal.

01:26:11.100 --> 01:26:12.080
The guy's been awesome.

01:26:12.240 --> 01:26:15.580
He's been working with me in the BinRev Mentorship Program.

01:26:16.020 --> 01:26:17.220
And we've been dialoguing a lot.

01:26:17.260 --> 01:26:17.620
Good guy.

01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:20.500
Also, Black Ratchet and I have been doing a lot of work together.

01:26:20.980 --> 01:26:21.940
Venom on IRC.

01:26:22.040 --> 01:26:22.840
Just wanted to say what's up.

01:26:23.100 --> 01:26:27.140
But the biggest shout-out, go to the lead attacker I've ever heard of, Frederick P. Lackey.

01:26:27.460 --> 01:26:28.500
Oh, man.

01:26:28.620 --> 01:26:28.900
See?

01:26:29.340 --> 01:26:30.920
You uttered his name out loud?

01:26:31.980 --> 01:26:32.420
Man.

01:26:32.520 --> 01:26:35.520
I'm not sure if people are ready for the Lacster.

01:26:36.020 --> 01:26:41.120
I'm not sure if they're ready for the glory of Fred Lackey.

01:26:41.120 --> 01:26:41.920
But you know what?

01:26:42.020 --> 01:26:44.600
I'll second that because he's pretty fucking elite.

01:26:45.340 --> 01:26:47.680
You cannot argue with his credentials.

01:26:47.960 --> 01:26:49.360
The world fears.

01:26:49.620 --> 01:26:51.700
So you've got to fear his mad skills.

01:26:52.060 --> 01:26:53.320
So I'll second that.

01:26:53.800 --> 01:26:57.120
Our site of the week this week is Geek Love Radio.

01:26:57.160 --> 01:26:59.120
Oh, I'm going to throw some shouts out to Quine, too, by the way.

01:26:59.200 --> 01:27:00.040
I mentioned his name earlier.

01:27:00.580 --> 01:27:02.980
To geekloveradio.com.

01:27:03.120 --> 01:27:04.440
Season 3 started yesterday.

01:27:04.600 --> 01:27:05.540
So that is our site of the week.

01:27:05.560 --> 01:27:06.300
Go check them out.

01:27:06.300 --> 01:27:11.880
Our good friends DJ Mollusk over there and Sub-Zero in the Hazy.

01:27:12.280 --> 01:27:14.800
Season 3 started yesterday on the 18th.

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So go check them out.

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Email us.

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Feedback of any kind.

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Radio at BinRev.com.

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And the closing music, I'm sorry to do this to you.

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It was going to be you singing I'm a Little Teapot.

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But I actually found something else.

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I know you can do it next time.

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We'll hold out.

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All right.

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Tonight's closing music is from Bad Spella and MC Frontalot.

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It's a new song called, and I'm going to mispronounce this,

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and nerds everywhere are going to hate me for it,

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Rhyme of the Nibelung.

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Nibelung?

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Nibelung?

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Nibelung?

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N-I-B-E-L-U-N-G.

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I probably pronounced it wrong, so I guess I'm not a true nerd.

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But whatever.

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So that's going to do it.

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Again, Savant, thank you for being on the show.

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Thank you for having me.

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A very full episode.

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And we are going to close it up and tell everybody that we will see them next week.

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Same hack time.

01:28:05.780 --> 01:28:08.320
Same cheeky cheeky channel.

01:28:10.280 --> 01:28:11.500
Oh, shit.

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I've got it.

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I did to go see the ring.

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I thought it was probably a musical about hobbits.

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Started out promisingly enough.

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Little fella running around.

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There were trees and stuff.

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And there's shelter from the storm.

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And a girl, it seems.

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So the dialogue don't make no sense to me.

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And the hubby come out.

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He looks a little menacing.

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Says he gonna eat you like a little piece of venison.

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When it's a morning, I guess I'm confused.

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Does the wife know the hero?

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There seems to be clues.

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There's a sword and a tree.

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Why is a tree in the house?

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Did she slip a man to make you?

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How come sicky don't get out?

01:28:51.080 --> 01:28:53.440
How come neither of them make you up the hills right now?

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As for brothers, love and sisters, isn't this disallowed?

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Isn't this kind of how bad fates come about?

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I'm gonna need an intermission just to figure it out.

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Now here come Papa.

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He's the one I jacked.

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Runehilda is the daughter with the armor on the rack.

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Does he lack in discretion?

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He backs up quick.

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Daddy Voto never seemed to step to my prick.

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She got him by the thick of the beard.

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She's insistent.

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But the subtitles thicker than I missed it.

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Odin don't get to get his son killing dragons.

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Still sounds like a job for the elder Baggins.

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Ain't even alright to get his daughter to fix fights.

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It's about to go to sleep in my seat.

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Alright.

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Cause the music's hella stupid.

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It don't got no beats.

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And that's the 22nd time I heard the light motif.

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And I cite no grief.

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But opera anthony's for the kind of people, yo.

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Who listen to the CBC and sip on tea.

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And read up on the paper.

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Another intermission coming.

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I'ma be the great escaper.

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Sneaking out the lobby.

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Got usher by an usher.

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Showed me to my role and reminded me to usher.

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Never settled in.

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Waiting for the boredom to commence.

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Definitely unprepared for what comes next.

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When the strings set in.

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And the horns come chasing.

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It's kind of like, I got rewarded for my patience.

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This is more like it.

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This I could keep.

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Ladies in helmets, you ride 18.

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Moving down in my seat.

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I'm rocking and squirming.

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Even the most got over the fact that they're talking German.

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I'm learning.

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I might even have to come back.

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Wonder if they sell a ticket for just the third act.

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That's on the way out.

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Did I follow?

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I say sort of.

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And I got to say, I'm glad that we're with the rings that there's an order.

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I saw a lot of similarities, but I'm pretty sure that this was an adaptation of Star Wars.

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I mean, you know, the twins and everything.

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I'll probably go look it up on the internet.

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You know, just to be sure.