WEBVTT

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This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.

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I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you

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and a fag pwned.

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In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold.

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I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.

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On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.

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In a flash, I'll screw you on burning Dreamcast. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle.

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Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.

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I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.

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Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.

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You feel that rattling your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones.

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And NASDAQ leaves your fight on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crudents.

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Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANS, SIFS, SIS.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode number 167.

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I am StankDawg with you again this week, and we are coming to you on the 3rd of October, 2006.

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Or whenever you actually downloaded this episode off of the podcast, or whatever you want to call it.

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Vidcast, netcast, audiocast, radiocast, whatever your word of choice is, is all good with us.

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And joining me this week on the show is a returning co-host, and actually, actually we'll turn this into an announcement on the show.

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Our newest DDP member, Verbal, is on the show with us.

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Welcome to the show, and welcome to DDP, Verbal.

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Hey, thanks a lot.

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Good morning, Norway.

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How's it going over there?

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All right.

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I can tell you how it's going.

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Cold.

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Yeah, so I guess I'm in the DDP now.

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Thanks for thanking all the other members for their support.

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Thanks.

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Much love.

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Thanks for sending me the bag of money.

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I appreciate that.

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Always, always.

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Let's do a little housekeeping.

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Did you have, I'll let you go ahead and start off first.

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What kind of housekeeping stuff do you have?

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Yeah, I just want to mention, last week I kind of went to a little about the mentorship program,

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and I was saying that, you know, we didn't have enough mentors, and we had like five,

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six people that were still looking for someone.

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And, you know, people actually, you know, came up and emailed me and, you know,

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took up the spot to be a mentor.

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And now we only have like two people that are not mentored.

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So, you know, if you're out there listening and you feel like you have some, you know, something to contribute,

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then, you know, please feel free to give me an email.

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So I just wanted to mention that.

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But the mentorship program is going really well, and I think people are enjoying themselves and learning a lot in the process.

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Yeah, and I got to say, I'm really proud of how this has taken off because, you know,

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this is something I've been wanting to do for a while and didn't have the time really to dedicate to get it off the ground,

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and you've done a great job with it, but I really am surprised, in a good way, that so many people have volunteered to help out.

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It's exceeded my expectations already, and it's just getting started.

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So I really couldn't be more proud of the way this thing is getting started.

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And I know that we have a few things on our plate to help get this a little bit more organized.

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I guess we're going to be putting up a website and have some tools and some things on there that will help both the mentors and the mentees.

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Am I correct with that?

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Yeah, I mean, basically right now we're doing a little site that will make my life easier.

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Let people who are interested in participating send mail or sign, like, do a form directly to me and, you know, whoever's running the thing.

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So I don't have to sit there and manually, like, sort all the emails and stuff.

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And also we add, like, a wiki and some other facilities for, you know, different pairs of people who are mentoring to kind of exchange information with each other

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or just, you know, put whatever they're doing on a site, you know, on the Internet somewhere so that other people who may not have time to participate

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or, you know, just for archival purposes in the future, like, all that will be documented.

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So hopefully we'll kind of have, like, a flipbook or a scrapbook of all this stuff that, you know,

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hopefully other people in the future will be able to draw from.

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Yeah, and that's really cool to be able to – also, if, like, you're doing duplicate information, you know,

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you might be able to share some programs or some sample code and things like that, which is cool.

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You know what else I think is – I don't know if we've mentioned this before about the mentoring program,

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but something else that's kind of cool is don't overlook the possibility of mentoring someone at your local BINREV meetings

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or whatever meetings you have locally.

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If you can actually get together with someone once a month face-to-face and sit down and do stuff and demo stuff on a laptop,

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I mean, it's great doing it through email and through the global interweb and even phone calls if you're doing that.

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But still, sitting down with someone, you know, sometimes you just can't beat that.

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So if you actually are at a meeting, you know, don't feel afraid or don't be embarrassed or whatever to get together

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or go to a meeting if you know there's someone there that can mentor you, you know,

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and you've never been to a meeting before, by all means go because there is nothing but good things that can come out of it.

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So that face-to-face thing is something else that I don't know if we've mentioned,

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but it's certainly worth repeating if we have.

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Also in the housekeeping and verbal, maybe you can speak to this as well,

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but IRC is up and running, is that right?

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We finally got that ironed out.

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We had a few little bugs here and there with the servers, but that's all ready to go, right?

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You can connect to irc.binrev.net.

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Yeah.

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We had kind of an old setup that we were changing over to a new set of servers.

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So we kind of – because before we were at like an intermediate state

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where we were using the old and the new servers and some of the things weren't syncing up,

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but now we're completely moved over.

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You can just connect to irc.binrev.net and it will connect you to an IRC server

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and everything seems to be okay.

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The only thing, however, is I apologize that if you already had a NIC registered,

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you have to re-register again, but I mean this was probably as of last week.

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So if you're using IRC regularly, you'd know about this,

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but if you haven't and you go and try to register your NIC and it says your NIC's not registered,

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you're going to have to re-register again because we couldn't reuse the database,

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the services info.

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But for that, I apologize.

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But everything else, though, is going great and everything's working.

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Now, you've also – I know you were going to, and actually I probably should have asked you this off the air,

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but we're up on this final IRC daemon that we're going to use, right?

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You were talking about switching.

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Is that – are we sticking with the one we have now or are we going to, again, change in the future,

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which is going to require people to re-register again?

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No.

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Yeah, I think, you know, the IRC daemon we're using now is fine.

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You know, I haven't had any problems with it.

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But some people before was mentioning that they want to switch to Unreal,

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but to be honest, I don't really care, and, you know, the one we're using now works.

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Yeah, I agree completely.

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Right.

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I mean, like, don't fix it if it's not broke.

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Exactly, exactly.

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All right, so, cool.

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Register your NICs, irc.binrev.net.

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All you'll have to remember is that one address, and to click the link,

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if you just click on it from the home page or any of the Binrev pages,

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it'll take you right to it, and it'll automatically pick one of the servers that are out there.

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So we are in the process of getting some good, steady, reliable servers up and running.

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And what the hell was that?

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Okay, one of my boxes on the other side of the room just came alive, so it made a little noise.

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So sorry about that.

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Exterminate.

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Exterminate.

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It's like, you know what?

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I saw the preview for that Transformers movie to go completely off topic, which looks badass, by the way.

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Dude, that, yeah, that movie looks awesome.

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You know, I don't want to turn this into a movie review show, but we got the Transformers movie coming up.

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We got the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles CGI coming up.

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It's going to be a badass year for movies next year is all I'm saying.

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Anyway, back to the show.

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Oh, and I saw Jackass 2, which was hilarious.

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Anyway, with the new IRC daemon, first of all, if anybody has a good, reliable server,

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and what I mean by that is no cable modems, no DSL lines, no dynamic IP addresses of any kind,

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even if you have a persistent one, I don't want that.

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But if you've got a server out there, co-located, a dedicated server that you don't mind donating a little of the bandwidth

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or just even as a backup, contact us and let us know, and we want to put a few more in there

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just in case something does happen to some of them.

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For the most part, what we have in place now is pretty doggone reliable,

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but it's always best to have more, especially as we grow.

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And speaking of growth, there are several channels that we have put out there, persistent channels,

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consistent, I think persistent is a better word.

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Persistent channels, for example, we created a pound code, C-O-D-E, which has been really, really,

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even today, even, let's see, Monday afternoon, I got a lot of great information out there

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about a project I was working on, some questions I had, all code-based stuff.

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So we're kind of breaking stuff apart into different topical channels.

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There's a pound freaking channel out there, and we're working on putting together a complete list

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and kind of break things down by topic because, frankly, Pound Bin Rev, which is the main channel

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we've always used in the past, has grown so much, and you've got 50 people in there

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chatting about so many different things that it's pretty much a mess,

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and it makes it difficult to actually concentrate on one conversation or any productive conversation.

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So we're kind of breaking that down so that we're going to have a few official channels,

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and we'll put up a website with a little bit more information about those.

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And if you have an idea for a channel that you'd like to register, let us know.

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Especially what I was thinking of is, like, the Bin Rev meetings.

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If you're local BR, like for my BR 407, maybe we'll make a persistent channel for that

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where we can get in there and plan about things we want to do at our upcoming meetings

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or discuss when and where if we want to change meetings or different topics or what to bring,

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that sort of thing.

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So anything like that or any other group of any kind.

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You've got a website out there, other hacking websites, hacking shows.

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If you want to have an official IRC network and you don't already have one,

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by all means contact us and we'll see what we can do about that.

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And because, wow, we're taking more time in housekeeping than I expected,

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but IRC is a good, I think that's a good, using the time to talk about IRC is a good thing.

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Quickly, I'll mention that Dock Droppers is finally back up and running.

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Thank you to people who emailed me and let me know it was down, but we were aware of it

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and didn't even have time, unfortunately, to put up a page saying,

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sorry, we're under construction.

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I've been so busy, but that is back up and running again.

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We were basically upgrading it to the latest version of MediaWiki

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and had a few problems with the database changed in the new version,

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so it kind of sort of worked, but it kind of sort of didn't.

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None of the login or authentication worked anymore.

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So we backed everything out.

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We're back to square one.

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We're still going to be upgrading it soon.

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We're just going to have to approach it a little bit differently.

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So right now it is back up and running.

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So if you want to go back out there and make some changes, additions,

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or comments or whatever to some of the content, by all means, feel free to do so.

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And we are going to try to pick it up a little bit

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and give time to our main topic that wrapped over from last week about IPv6.

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So let's do some e-mail.

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All right.

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Our first e-mail.

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There I go again.

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I always say all right when I come out of a segment.

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I'm so bad at this.

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All right.

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Our first e-mail this week comes from Iron Geek, long-time friend of BinRev.

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Iron Geek says,

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Hi, guys.

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I'm guessing the second feature that Verbal is going to mention

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is mandatory implementation of IPsec.

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Your application does not have to use it,

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but my understanding is IPsec has to be implemented in an IPv6 stack

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to match the RFCs.

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In IPv4, it's optional.

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A few things IPsec provides are, and this is a blatant copy and paste from Wikipedia,

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as he points out,

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one, encrypting traffic so it can't be read in transmission,

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two, integrity validation, ensuring the traffic hasn't been modified along the path,

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three, authenticating the peers.

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Both ends are sure they are communicating with a trusted entity in the traffic,

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entity the traffic is intended for,

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and four, anti-replay, protect against session replay.

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Encryption on the network layer may slow some things down with the key exchange and all,

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but for some things it should help a lot with security.

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Thanks for the great show, guys, Iron Geek.

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As a side note, could you plug the upcoming Freaknik X convention,

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that's Freaknik 10, convention in Nashville?

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A whole lot of us BinRevers will be there and plan to meet up.

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So, yes, absolutely, Iron Geek.

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Consider Freaknik plugged.

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Go check out Freaknik.info is the website,

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the only .info site that I know about, quite honestly,

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P-H-R-E-A-K-N-I-C dot I-N-F-O.

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So go check it out.

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They've got the speaker list up, including Iron Geek himself.

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I think several BinRevers, I think Lotec is speaking there.

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Lotec and Nightlord, I think, are co-presenting on something.

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My good friend Acidus is presenting on something that I know will be leet.

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Desius has got a couple presentations going on.

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Rattle is presenting.

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Lots of great people presenting some great stuff.

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So go check that out if you can make it to the Nashville area.

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Okay.

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As far as these other things, Verbal, do you want to –

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should we hold off and do –

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because we are going to talk about these things, right?

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Yeah, let's wait until later in the actual main topic

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and then I'll kind of refer back a little bit

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because I'm going to go over it anyway.

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Yeah, because, you know, and last week,

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basically we had a little technical glitch,

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so we had to chop the show into two portions,

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which kind of threw off our timing.

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So we ended up spending a lot more time on covert channels

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and IPv4 a little bit than we should have.

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So last week's show was really about covert channels

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more than anything as a main topic.

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So this week we're going to catch up and do the IPv6 stuff.

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So we'll get to that in a few minutes.

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Zip through some more emails.

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Like this wonderful email.

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Email from Tim who says, quote,

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Motherfucking ad.

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Fuck you, motherfu.

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Let's go ride bikes.

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End quote.

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Now –

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It's only ADD.

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I don't know.

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Is that what it is?

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An ad works, too.

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Motherfucking AD –

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Okay, it is all caps.

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ADD, I guess that's attention deficit disorder.

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He's got it.

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That explains a lot.

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I have no –

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and the subject line of this mail was,

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it's not sexy if we don't hear the zip,

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which of course made me think that this is prawn spam,

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you know,

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which of course I opened.

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But there's no link –

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there was no link inside.

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Actually, I don't get a whole lot of spam on that account

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because I don't really –

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I mention it on the radio every single week, of course,

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but I don't actually post it on the interweb very much.

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So it doesn't get a whole lot of spam.

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But there was no link in it,

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and I'm not sure how to reply

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or whether I should reply to this email.

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So I guess I'll just say,

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Tim, thanks for the email, I guess.

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Yeah, that sounds about right.

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All right.

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Well, let's go on to the next one.

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Oh, it came from Mike,

16:58.480 --> 17:00.240
which makes a little bit more sense here.

17:00.340 --> 17:00.920
Mike says,

17:00.980 --> 17:01.980
Hey guys, great show.

17:02.620 --> 17:04.020
I was turned on to you guys

17:04.020 --> 17:06.040
by another great security podcast,

17:06.400 --> 17:08.540
Paul.com Security Weekly.

17:09.620 --> 17:12.700
Anyway, I just finished listening to episode 164,

17:12.960 --> 17:14.160
and you mentioned that Yahoo!

17:14.320 --> 17:16.420
you only use as SSL to transmit

17:16.420 --> 17:17.760
the rest of the session –

17:17.760 --> 17:20.200
only use as SSL to transmit,

17:20.460 --> 17:22.560
then the rest of the session is unencrypted.

17:22.560 --> 17:25.220
By default, Gmail is the same way.

17:25.540 --> 17:26.440
However, if you type

17:26.440 --> 17:30.840
HTTPS colon slash slash gmail.google.com,

17:31.020 --> 17:33.140
the entire session is encrypted.

17:33.520 --> 17:34.900
It would be better by default,

17:35.020 --> 17:35.960
but at least it's there.

17:36.060 --> 17:36.700
Great show.

17:37.360 --> 17:38.980
Keep up the good work.

17:39.740 --> 17:40.860
Now, I could have sworn

17:40.860 --> 17:42.800
that we mentioned that

17:42.800 --> 17:44.520
exact thing,

17:44.560 --> 17:45.680
that by default it didn't,

17:45.760 --> 17:47.940
but if you put in hard-coded that full path,

17:47.980 --> 17:49.040
because I thought even Iron Geek

17:49.040 --> 17:50.120
brought that up in an email,

17:50.120 --> 17:52.180
and we verified it on the email.

17:52.280 --> 17:53.340
Was that maybe an episode

17:53.340 --> 17:54.520
after that or something?

17:55.940 --> 17:57.900
Well, it depends on when you got it,

17:58.000 --> 17:59.760
but the last episode,

17:59.980 --> 18:01.220
we definitely talked about it

18:01.220 --> 18:02.500
because Iron Geek emailed us.

18:03.140 --> 18:03.860
Oh, okay.

18:04.260 --> 18:06.220
Actually, his URL was

18:06.220 --> 18:10.280
HTTPSmail.google.com.

18:10.460 --> 18:12.840
I don't know if gmail.google.com works,

18:12.980 --> 18:14.380
but I mean, one of those.

18:15.300 --> 18:16.220
I don't know if it would work,

18:16.340 --> 18:17.700
or I mean, both of them.

18:17.700 --> 18:18.380
But, yeah.

18:18.620 --> 18:19.760
But, I mean, it's cool.

18:19.760 --> 18:20.660
Just to rehash,

18:20.760 --> 18:22.000
because I think a lot of people

18:22.000 --> 18:23.640
don't really know about it.

18:24.080 --> 18:24.340
Right.

18:24.400 --> 18:25.960
Because they just type in gmail.com,

18:26.020 --> 18:26.600
and then they go.

18:27.500 --> 18:29.300
Yeah, and this is probably

18:29.300 --> 18:31.380
a case of timing of the emails

18:31.380 --> 18:32.380
crossing, that's all.

18:32.460 --> 18:34.120
So, that makes perfect sense.

18:34.280 --> 18:34.840
And, you know,

18:34.880 --> 18:35.760
the reason they do this

18:35.760 --> 18:36.680
by default, too,

18:36.840 --> 18:38.260
is, and just in case

18:38.260 --> 18:38.960
I didn't mention this,

18:39.480 --> 18:40.640
when you're encrypting everything,

18:40.760 --> 18:41.940
you're adding a little bit of overhead

18:41.940 --> 18:43.080
to every single packet.

18:43.240 --> 18:44.100
I mean, every single thing

18:44.100 --> 18:45.280
is encrypted, which adds,

18:45.420 --> 18:46.720
I mean, anytime you encrypt a file,

18:46.800 --> 18:48.020
it's going to usually get,

18:48.020 --> 18:49.640
even if it's just a little bit,

18:49.700 --> 18:50.660
a little bit bigger,

18:50.760 --> 18:51.780
especially when you break it down

18:51.780 --> 18:52.680
packet by packet,

18:53.440 --> 18:55.400
it just increases the traffic.

18:55.540 --> 18:56.520
Now, when it's just you,

18:56.580 --> 18:57.640
it's not such a big deal.

18:58.300 --> 18:59.440
But I think I saw,

19:00.360 --> 19:01.180
oh my gosh,

19:01.180 --> 19:03.140
I should have ripped it out

19:03.140 --> 19:03.620
of the magazine,

19:03.740 --> 19:04.660
how many users that,

19:04.840 --> 19:05.380
like, for example,

19:05.520 --> 19:06.680
Yahoo Mail has,

19:06.760 --> 19:07.280
and Gmail has,

19:07.480 --> 19:08.500
so many users,

19:08.640 --> 19:09.600
that that adds up

19:09.600 --> 19:11.040
quicker than you might realize.

19:11.040 --> 19:12.400
So, that's probably the reason

19:12.400 --> 19:13.180
they don't put it on

19:13.180 --> 19:14.320
by default,

19:14.780 --> 19:16.100
is because it just adds

19:16.100 --> 19:16.960
so much bandwidth,

19:17.140 --> 19:18.320
although Google really doesn't,

19:18.860 --> 19:19.960
I don't think bandwidth

19:19.960 --> 19:21.700
is really a concern of theirs,

19:21.800 --> 19:22.440
but generally,

19:22.740 --> 19:23.200
when you're running

19:23.200 --> 19:23.800
your own server,

19:23.860 --> 19:25.000
that's always a concern,

19:25.200 --> 19:28.080
or a point of knowledge,

19:28.200 --> 19:29.380
a point of attention.

19:30.140 --> 19:30.780
Ah, anyway.

19:31.300 --> 19:32.240
And actually, Verbal,

19:32.240 --> 19:32.960
I'm going to throw this

19:32.960 --> 19:33.800
at you, by the way,

19:33.860 --> 19:35.240
because I'm not a fan

19:35.240 --> 19:36.420
of Gmail,

19:36.760 --> 19:37.720
I'm not a fan of Google,

19:37.820 --> 19:38.320
but that's a whole

19:38.320 --> 19:39.260
other side story.

19:39.260 --> 19:42.140
Um, I actually logged

19:42.140 --> 19:43.580
into my Gmail account today

19:43.580 --> 19:45.000
to send an email to Verbal,

19:45.220 --> 19:46.700
and first time

19:46.700 --> 19:47.420
in a couple of months,

19:47.500 --> 19:47.760
probably,

19:47.820 --> 19:48.900
I've really logged into it

19:48.900 --> 19:49.820
for any length,

19:49.900 --> 19:50.080
you know,

19:50.100 --> 19:51.220
I might have jumped on,

19:51.340 --> 19:51.820
sent something,

19:51.860 --> 19:52.460
and jumped off,

19:52.620 --> 19:53.940
but I actually got in there

19:53.940 --> 19:54.280
and looked,

19:54.680 --> 19:55.920
and my Gmail account,

19:56.040 --> 19:56.860
which, let me emphasize,

19:57.100 --> 19:58.620
I never use,

19:59.100 --> 20:00.000
I've never registered

20:00.000 --> 20:01.100
on a website with it,

20:01.180 --> 20:02.640
I've never posted it publicly,

20:03.120 --> 20:03.960
my Gmail account,

20:04.020 --> 20:04.720
if you go Google

20:04.720 --> 20:06.680
for my Gmail account,

20:06.740 --> 20:07.520
you won't find it,

20:08.180 --> 20:08.840
yet somehow,

20:08.840 --> 20:11.660
there are 1,117 messages

20:11.660 --> 20:13.480
in the spam folder,

20:13.620 --> 20:14.300
so somehow,

20:15.100 --> 20:16.620
it's out there.

20:17.840 --> 20:18.720
So what do you think

20:18.720 --> 20:19.220
about that?

20:19.280 --> 20:20.140
Is Google selling

20:20.140 --> 20:21.220
these addresses out there?

20:21.280 --> 20:22.260
Because there's no way

20:22.260 --> 20:22.920
that I've released

20:22.920 --> 20:23.500
that anywhere.

20:24.620 --> 20:25.340
No, I mean,

20:25.560 --> 20:26.860
Google is definitely

20:26.860 --> 20:28.660
not selling your information.

20:29.140 --> 20:29.740
Like, um,

20:29.740 --> 20:30.940
I know a lot of people

20:30.940 --> 20:31.700
who work there,

20:32.160 --> 20:33.320
and, I mean,

20:33.400 --> 20:35.120
I've had many conversations

20:35.120 --> 20:36.560
with those people,

20:37.040 --> 20:39.480
and they try very hard

20:39.480 --> 20:41.080
to not do creepy stuff.

20:41.220 --> 20:42.620
Like, if they wanted to,

20:42.740 --> 20:43.720
they can, you know,

20:43.760 --> 20:44.800
like, they have everything

20:44.800 --> 20:45.540
you do logged,

20:45.580 --> 20:46.580
and if they wanted to,

20:47.020 --> 20:47.540
they can, like,

20:47.580 --> 20:49.240
do all sorts of, like,

20:49.300 --> 20:50.700
creepy shit to you.

20:50.860 --> 20:51.220
I know.

20:51.220 --> 20:51.560
But, I mean,

20:51.560 --> 20:52.740
they make it a point

20:52.740 --> 20:54.060
to try not to be evil.

20:54.460 --> 20:55.160
Now, like,

20:55.340 --> 20:56.000
a lot of people

20:56.000 --> 20:56.960
I've told that to,

20:57.080 --> 20:57.900
yeah, whatever,

20:58.020 --> 20:58.540
they have it,

20:58.580 --> 20:59.680
there's no reason

20:59.680 --> 21:01.180
why they wouldn't use it.

21:01.580 --> 21:02.920
Now, whether you believe

21:02.920 --> 21:03.660
that or not,

21:03.740 --> 21:03.940
you know,

21:03.940 --> 21:04.780
that's up to you.

21:05.280 --> 21:06.780
But, from what I've seen,

21:06.820 --> 21:08.340
they try not to,

21:08.340 --> 21:08.980
you know,

21:09.140 --> 21:10.540
abuse the information

21:10.540 --> 21:11.480
they gather from you.

21:11.900 --> 21:12.820
Now, the other thing

21:12.820 --> 21:13.980
as to why, you know,

21:14.020 --> 21:15.320
you might be getting spam

21:15.320 --> 21:17.060
is that, um,

21:17.740 --> 21:19.500
like, a lot of spam people,

21:19.640 --> 21:20.380
I think one of the things

21:20.380 --> 21:21.300
they do is they'll

21:21.300 --> 21:22.440
enumerate accounts.

21:23.000 --> 21:24.240
So, let's say, uh,

21:24.240 --> 21:25.400
what was the name

21:25.400 --> 21:25.720
of your,

21:25.800 --> 21:26.620
that Gmail account?

21:26.760 --> 21:27.260
Like, was it

21:27.260 --> 21:28.680
spankdog at gmail.com?

21:28.820 --> 21:29.720
Yes, it was.

21:30.360 --> 21:30.660
Right.

21:30.800 --> 21:31.820
So, you know,

21:31.880 --> 21:33.020
if I were a spammer,

21:33.120 --> 21:33.820
not that I am,

21:33.820 --> 21:35.280
but I would probably,

21:35.780 --> 21:36.040
you know,

21:36.080 --> 21:37.040
if I'm finding

21:37.040 --> 21:38.240
legitimate accounts,

21:38.540 --> 21:38.860
you know,

21:38.900 --> 21:39.680
from wherever,

21:40.280 --> 21:41.540
I would probably just

21:41.540 --> 21:43.260
try to send it to,

21:43.420 --> 21:43.960
you know,

21:44.000 --> 21:44.780
that username

21:44.780 --> 21:46.020
at gmail.com too

21:46.020 --> 21:47.340
because they probably

21:47.340 --> 21:48.000
have an account.

21:48.140 --> 21:48.760
Like, for example,

21:49.180 --> 21:50.220
my Gmail address

21:50.220 --> 21:52.020
is verbal at gmail.com.

21:52.680 --> 21:53.640
So, maybe that's

21:53.640 --> 21:54.280
what's happening.

21:54.540 --> 21:54.980
But how are they

21:54.980 --> 21:55.820
finding the account name?

21:56.460 --> 21:56.780
You know,

21:56.840 --> 21:58.040
Google is putting it

21:58.040 --> 21:58.640
out there

21:58.640 --> 21:59.400
for other people

21:59.400 --> 22:00.200
to find, you know?

22:00.400 --> 22:01.300
But how are they

22:01.300 --> 22:02.480
getting the account name even?

22:03.820 --> 22:04.240
Well, I mean,

22:04.280 --> 22:04.940
you have other

22:04.940 --> 22:07.540
stankdog at accounts,

22:07.640 --> 22:07.880
right?

22:08.280 --> 22:08.800
So, you're saying

22:08.800 --> 22:09.360
that they know,

22:09.480 --> 22:09.980
they're finding,

22:10.100 --> 22:10.540
for example,

22:10.700 --> 22:12.680
stankdog at stankdog.com

22:12.680 --> 22:13.600
and they're saying,

22:13.680 --> 22:14.060
you know what,

22:14.160 --> 22:15.080
let's just go ahead

22:15.080 --> 22:16.400
and also send

22:16.400 --> 22:17.780
to stankdog at gmail

22:17.780 --> 22:19.160
and stankdog at yahoo

22:19.160 --> 22:20.560
and stankdog at hotmail

22:20.560 --> 22:22.060
and assume that he might

22:22.060 --> 22:23.220
have one or all

22:23.220 --> 22:23.800
three of them.

22:24.840 --> 22:25.240
Probably.

22:25.380 --> 22:25.560
I mean,

22:25.560 --> 22:26.460
that's what I would do.

22:26.600 --> 22:26.780
I mean,

22:26.780 --> 22:27.560
it doesn't cost me

22:27.560 --> 22:27.900
anything.

22:28.020 --> 22:28.880
They just keep sending,

22:29.100 --> 22:29.340
you know?

22:29.340 --> 22:30.880
It's not practical

22:30.880 --> 22:32.120
for me to enumerate

22:32.120 --> 22:34.260
the entire alphabet

22:34.260 --> 22:36.800
or the entire ASCII space

22:36.800 --> 22:38.820
but if I know

22:38.820 --> 22:39.900
someone has that name

22:39.900 --> 22:40.940
and they probably

22:40.940 --> 22:41.320
have it,

22:41.400 --> 22:41.660
I mean,

22:41.720 --> 22:42.300
and you do,

22:42.460 --> 22:43.360
and you do

22:43.360 --> 22:43.920
and I do

22:43.920 --> 22:44.420
and a lot

22:44.420 --> 22:45.980
of other people

22:45.980 --> 22:47.200
I know do.

22:47.340 --> 22:47.480
I mean,

22:47.520 --> 22:48.440
people like to keep

22:48.440 --> 22:49.460
one username

22:49.460 --> 22:50.580
for all their emails,

22:50.820 --> 22:51.100
you know?

22:51.920 --> 22:52.880
That's just my hypothesis.

22:53.300 --> 22:53.680
I could be,

22:53.920 --> 22:54.140
I mean,

22:54.180 --> 22:54.820
I'm totally talking

22:54.820 --> 22:55.560
out of my ass

22:55.560 --> 22:56.120
but that seems

22:56.120 --> 22:56.920
to make sense to me.

22:57.500 --> 22:57.780
Well,

22:58.380 --> 22:59.120
the Hotmail,

22:59.580 --> 23:00.440
my Hotmail account

23:00.440 --> 23:01.520
is so overrun with spam

23:01.520 --> 23:02.480
that I never use

23:02.480 --> 23:03.000
that anymore.

23:03.280 --> 23:03.980
So if anybody's ever

23:03.980 --> 23:04.760
emailed me at that

23:04.760 --> 23:06.060
and I never responded,

23:06.160 --> 23:06.620
it's not because

23:06.620 --> 23:07.100
I'm a dick,

23:07.340 --> 23:07.840
it's because I don't

23:07.840 --> 23:08.460
use it anymore.

23:08.540 --> 23:09.020
It's dead.

23:09.640 --> 23:10.280
Or it might be

23:10.280 --> 23:10.840
because I'm a dick.

23:10.900 --> 23:11.820
One of the two things.

23:13.340 --> 23:13.700
Yahoo,

23:13.900 --> 23:14.580
don't have,

23:14.760 --> 23:15.920
and Gmail have it

23:15.920 --> 23:17.420
but barely ever use it.

23:17.780 --> 23:17.800
So,

23:18.800 --> 23:19.140
StankDog.

23:19.140 --> 23:20.000
If you want,

23:20.100 --> 23:20.240
right?

23:20.320 --> 23:21.300
Just get StankDog

23:21.300 --> 23:22.620
at Yahoo.com

23:22.620 --> 23:23.180
and then see

23:23.180 --> 23:23.920
what comes in.

23:24.640 --> 23:24.660
Yeah.

23:25.120 --> 23:25.540
It's probably,

23:25.640 --> 23:26.460
and actually there might,

23:26.920 --> 23:28.680
I don't know.

23:28.760 --> 23:29.300
It might be,

23:29.420 --> 23:29.980
maybe I have it

23:29.980 --> 23:30.440
and don't remember.

23:30.540 --> 23:30.980
I don't know

23:30.980 --> 23:31.740
what I've got anymore.

23:31.900 --> 23:32.500
I don't use it

23:32.500 --> 23:33.060
if I've got it.

23:33.080 --> 23:33.600
I'll say that.

23:34.560 --> 23:35.060
All right.

23:35.200 --> 23:35.540
All right.

23:35.760 --> 23:36.860
Let's move on here.

23:37.260 --> 23:38.260
How about you

23:38.260 --> 23:39.260
take over some email

23:39.260 --> 23:39.720
for a minute

23:39.720 --> 23:40.220
and let me have

23:40.220 --> 23:40.740
a nice sip

23:40.740 --> 23:41.880
of my sweet iced tea.

23:43.100 --> 23:44.160
Sweet iced tea.

23:44.340 --> 23:45.020
That's not so.

23:47.540 --> 23:47.940
Okay.

23:48.540 --> 23:49.380
Next email

23:49.380 --> 23:50.380
is from Jason.

23:50.620 --> 23:51.320
Jason writes,

23:51.580 --> 23:52.020
Verbal,

23:52.580 --> 23:53.140
No,

23:53.400 --> 23:53.840
bang,

23:54.120 --> 23:54.800
don't support

23:54.800 --> 23:55.580
the evil empire

23:55.580 --> 23:56.280
of Apple,

23:56.480 --> 23:56.780
period.

23:57.260 --> 23:58.200
They cheat developers.

23:58.620 --> 23:59.900
They misrepresent facts

23:59.900 --> 24:00.660
with their marketing.

24:01.240 --> 24:02.240
They're locking people

24:02.240 --> 24:03.100
into their products

24:03.100 --> 24:04.060
with DRM.

24:04.420 --> 24:05.380
They're unethical

24:05.380 --> 24:07.100
and a typical corporation

24:07.100 --> 24:08.260
exemplifying

24:08.260 --> 24:09.040
what is wrong

24:09.040 --> 24:09.640
in America

24:09.640 --> 24:10.360
and the world.

24:10.900 --> 24:11.420
For a buyer

24:11.420 --> 24:12.480
revolution person,

24:12.640 --> 24:13.540
why are you not

24:13.540 --> 24:14.380
supporting the

24:14.380 --> 24:15.740
OSS movement?

24:16.180 --> 24:17.260
Even if there are

24:17.260 --> 24:17.860
rough edges

24:17.860 --> 24:18.620
here and there

24:18.620 --> 24:19.700
that have not

24:19.700 --> 24:20.260
been addressed

24:20.260 --> 24:21.000
by developers

24:21.000 --> 24:21.820
quite yet.

24:21.820 --> 24:23.240
Well,

24:23.500 --> 24:24.540
hold on.

24:24.640 --> 24:26.100
Let me defend you

24:26.100 --> 24:27.200
real quick

24:27.200 --> 24:27.660
because there's

24:27.660 --> 24:28.440
a jump between

24:28.440 --> 24:30.480
the first paragraph

24:30.480 --> 24:32.140
and the second paragraph

24:32.140 --> 24:32.860
big time.

24:33.800 --> 24:34.720
Just because

24:34.720 --> 24:35.300
we had that little

24:35.300 --> 24:36.300
discussion about Apple

24:36.300 --> 24:37.160
which I knew

24:37.160 --> 24:37.720
that was going

24:37.720 --> 24:38.280
to come back.

24:38.480 --> 24:39.200
I knew it was

24:39.200 --> 24:39.740
when I asked you

24:39.740 --> 24:40.240
the question.

24:42.360 --> 24:43.140
Very much

24:43.140 --> 24:43.660
we,

24:44.460 --> 24:45.280
and I think

24:45.280 --> 24:45.720
I'm speaking

24:45.720 --> 24:46.260
for Verbal

24:46.260 --> 24:46.980
and I'm speaking

24:46.980 --> 24:47.820
for most hackers

24:47.820 --> 24:48.480
when I say this,

24:48.720 --> 24:49.620
very much support

24:49.620 --> 24:50.500
open source software

24:50.500 --> 24:52.200
and we've always,

24:52.640 --> 24:53.540
always supported

24:53.540 --> 24:54.420
open source software

24:54.420 --> 24:55.760
from the first episode

24:55.760 --> 24:56.520
of this show

24:56.520 --> 24:58.220
even further back.

24:58.360 --> 24:58.540
I mean,

24:58.560 --> 24:59.420
we've always been

24:59.420 --> 25:00.460
big, big supporters

25:00.460 --> 25:01.580
of open source software

25:01.580 --> 25:02.780
and turned people

25:02.780 --> 25:03.920
on to open source software

25:03.920 --> 25:04.940
all the time.

25:05.280 --> 25:06.060
I don't think

25:06.060 --> 25:07.040
that's any way,

25:07.200 --> 25:07.700
shape, or form

25:07.700 --> 25:08.140
related

25:08.140 --> 25:10.120
to his first comments

25:10.120 --> 25:11.080
about Mac

25:11.080 --> 25:11.780
and Apple.

25:11.880 --> 25:12.080
Now,

25:12.620 --> 25:13.360
it just so happens

25:13.360 --> 25:14.360
I do kind of agree

25:14.360 --> 25:15.660
with some of his views

25:15.660 --> 25:16.120
on Apple

25:16.120 --> 25:16.960
but you don't.

25:17.260 --> 25:18.260
So let's not,

25:18.800 --> 25:19.480
I'll defend you

25:19.480 --> 25:20.880
and say you're not

25:20.880 --> 25:23.300
not supporting

25:23.300 --> 25:24.000
the open source

25:24.000 --> 25:25.000
software movement

25:25.000 --> 25:26.000
so I'll step into

25:26.000 --> 25:26.600
that part.

25:26.940 --> 25:27.060
Now,

25:27.140 --> 25:27.480
I don't know

25:27.480 --> 25:27.860
if you wanted

25:27.860 --> 25:28.680
to follow up

25:28.680 --> 25:29.180
on the Apple

25:29.180 --> 25:30.000
part of it or not

25:30.000 --> 25:30.420
but it's,

25:30.560 --> 25:31.520
the floor is yours.

25:32.840 --> 25:33.480
That's such a

25:33.480 --> 25:34.800
bittersweet defense

25:34.800 --> 25:35.480
you ask.

25:36.360 --> 25:37.040
I don't,

25:37.100 --> 25:37.420
I'm sorry,

25:37.480 --> 25:38.180
I don't agree

25:38.180 --> 25:38.960
with you on Apple.

25:39.080 --> 25:39.780
I really don't.

25:39.940 --> 25:39.980
Yeah,

25:39.980 --> 25:41.860
so in my own defense,

25:42.020 --> 25:42.460
now like,

25:42.720 --> 25:43.520
the thing is

25:43.520 --> 25:45.220
I do use,

25:45.300 --> 25:45.540
you know,

25:45.580 --> 25:46.700
open source software.

25:47.740 --> 25:48.100
If you,

25:48.260 --> 25:48.480
you know,

25:48.480 --> 25:48.920
I mean,

25:49.460 --> 25:50.360
obviously you don't

25:50.360 --> 25:51.220
know me that well

25:51.220 --> 25:51.940
and that's,

25:51.940 --> 25:52.240
you know,

25:52.280 --> 25:53.180
that's to be expected

25:53.180 --> 25:54.620
but I,

25:54.820 --> 25:55.040
you know,

25:55.200 --> 25:56.720
OS X is not

25:56.720 --> 25:57.160
the only thing

25:57.160 --> 25:57.500
I run.

25:57.920 --> 25:58.200
Like,

25:58.280 --> 25:59.580
I try to use

25:59.580 --> 26:00.700
the correct tool

26:00.700 --> 26:02.600
for the correct purpose

26:02.600 --> 26:03.660
and,

26:03.720 --> 26:04.020
you know,

26:04.100 --> 26:04.800
and instead of just

26:04.800 --> 26:05.660
like picking one

26:05.660 --> 26:06.940
and then saying like,

26:07.000 --> 26:07.140
okay,

26:07.160 --> 26:07.720
I'm going to use it

26:07.720 --> 26:08.180
for everything.

26:08.680 --> 26:09.400
So just to give,

26:09.520 --> 26:09.800
you know,

26:09.860 --> 26:10.820
a brief overview,

26:11.000 --> 26:11.220
like,

26:11.300 --> 26:11.900
for example,

26:12.500 --> 26:13.120
I have,

26:13.280 --> 26:13.940
for my,

26:14.080 --> 26:14.540
like,

26:14.620 --> 26:15.480
firewalls

26:15.480 --> 26:16.220
and if I'm,

26:16.360 --> 26:17.360
I used to have

26:17.360 --> 26:19.280
like a computer

26:19.280 --> 26:21.180
as a router

26:21.180 --> 26:22.620
but now I don't

26:22.620 --> 26:23.760
I have some Cisco bugs

26:23.760 --> 26:24.540
but,

26:24.660 --> 26:24.960
you know,

26:25.100 --> 26:25.960
for that stuff

26:25.960 --> 26:27.280
I use OpenBSD

26:27.280 --> 26:29.040
because I like PF

26:29.040 --> 26:29.780
and,

26:30.000 --> 26:30.200
you know,

26:30.300 --> 26:30.840
I think,

26:31.260 --> 26:32.200
I'm going to get

26:32.200 --> 26:33.760
shit to saying this

26:33.760 --> 26:34.360
but I think

26:34.360 --> 26:35.740
OpenBSD

26:35.740 --> 26:36.680
is more secure

26:36.680 --> 26:37.420
by default

26:37.420 --> 26:39.020
than some of the other OSes

26:39.020 --> 26:39.820
which I know

26:39.820 --> 26:40.580
is not really true

26:40.580 --> 26:41.200
to an extent

26:41.200 --> 26:42.640
but with the way

26:42.640 --> 26:43.260
it's packaged

26:43.260 --> 26:44.160
and,

26:44.220 --> 26:44.380
you know,

26:44.440 --> 26:45.740
compared to other distros

26:45.740 --> 26:46.540
it's just kind of

26:46.540 --> 26:47.700
like a bare bones thing

26:47.700 --> 26:49.160
and it does what I want

26:49.160 --> 26:50.160
and,

26:50.320 --> 26:50.460
you know,

26:50.520 --> 26:51.360
I've been using it

26:51.360 --> 26:51.900
for a while

26:51.900 --> 26:53.160
so that's just what I know

26:53.160 --> 26:54.100
for like if I want

26:54.100 --> 26:54.900
to use firewall

26:54.900 --> 26:55.640
or,

26:55.840 --> 26:56.020
you know,

26:56.040 --> 26:56.660
some router.

26:57.240 --> 26:57.480
Now,

26:57.620 --> 26:58.260
if I want,

26:58.400 --> 26:58.860
personally,

26:59.200 --> 27:01.300
I like to use FreeBSD

27:01.300 --> 27:02.420
actually back

27:02.420 --> 27:04.620
in like the 4X days

27:04.620 --> 27:05.980
you know,

27:06.040 --> 27:07.500
because 5X is kind of messed up

27:07.500 --> 27:08.540
and I haven't really

27:08.540 --> 27:09.500
tried 6X yet

27:09.500 --> 27:11.320
but like if I have a box

27:11.320 --> 27:11.940
that I want to use

27:11.940 --> 27:12.740
as like a server

27:12.740 --> 27:13.280
then I,

27:13.460 --> 27:13.680
you know,

27:13.720 --> 27:15.240
then I would use FreeBSD

27:15.240 --> 27:17.260
and like the problem

27:17.260 --> 27:18.040
with,

27:18.520 --> 27:19.120
you know,

27:19.360 --> 27:20.280
this like kind of like

27:20.280 --> 27:22.640
picking which OS to use

27:22.640 --> 27:24.140
kind of for me anyway

27:24.140 --> 27:25.900
comes from the desktop.

27:26.460 --> 27:27.140
Like I've been,

27:27.440 --> 27:28.860
I've spent a ton of time

27:28.860 --> 27:29.980
trying to find

27:29.980 --> 27:31.660
a good desktop OS

27:31.660 --> 27:32.820
and,

27:33.100 --> 27:33.200
you know,

27:33.260 --> 27:34.120
long story short

27:34.120 --> 27:36.500
ultimately I sold on OS X

27:36.500 --> 27:38.200
because it kind of

27:38.200 --> 27:39.260
gave me

27:39.260 --> 27:40.860
enough power

27:40.860 --> 27:41.620
to do everything

27:41.620 --> 27:42.140
I wanted

27:42.140 --> 27:43.200
and it had

27:43.200 --> 27:43.760
the kind of

27:43.760 --> 27:44.820
code quality

27:44.820 --> 27:45.700
for the UI

27:45.700 --> 27:47.560
that I was looking for,

27:47.860 --> 27:48.040
you know,

27:48.100 --> 27:48.860
like you were mentioning

27:48.860 --> 27:50.000
about the rough edges,

27:50.620 --> 27:51.120
you know,

27:51.220 --> 27:52.920
and it's also

27:52.920 --> 27:53.740
easy to use

27:53.740 --> 27:54.320
and there are

27:54.320 --> 27:55.280
third party,

27:55.880 --> 27:56.200
you know,

27:56.280 --> 27:57.460
not open source

27:57.460 --> 27:58.100
applications.

27:58.440 --> 27:58.620
Now,

27:58.840 --> 28:00.060
I have no problem

28:00.060 --> 28:01.600
with buying

28:01.600 --> 28:02.180
and paying

28:02.180 --> 28:03.160
for an application

28:03.160 --> 28:03.900
if it does

28:03.900 --> 28:04.460
what I want

28:04.460 --> 28:05.740
and it's reasonably priced.

28:05.860 --> 28:06.260
Absolutely.

28:06.260 --> 28:07.440
Right.

28:08.000 --> 28:08.280
So,

28:08.440 --> 28:09.040
for example,

28:09.360 --> 28:09.640
you know,

28:10.760 --> 28:11.160
you know,

28:11.360 --> 28:12.080
for like GIMP

28:12.080 --> 28:13.820
or Adobe Photoshop

28:13.820 --> 28:14.300
or whatever,

28:14.520 --> 28:14.760
you know,

28:15.020 --> 28:16.040
like GIMP is a good

28:16.040 --> 28:17.020
replacement but

28:17.020 --> 28:18.680
it doesn't compare

28:18.680 --> 28:19.920
to Photoshop at all.

28:20.040 --> 28:20.200
Like,

28:20.260 --> 28:21.300
if you need to do

28:21.300 --> 28:22.160
some serious

28:22.160 --> 28:23.480
like photo editing

28:23.480 --> 28:24.560
and stuff like that,

28:24.620 --> 28:24.900
you know,

28:25.420 --> 28:26.980
GIMP does not compare.

28:27.360 --> 28:28.320
You are so asking

28:28.320 --> 28:29.120
for hate mail.

28:29.860 --> 28:30.160
Yeah,

28:30.260 --> 28:30.640
whatever.

28:30.800 --> 28:31.520
I don't care.

28:31.520 --> 28:33.660
I'm putting myself

28:33.660 --> 28:34.060
up there.

28:34.060 --> 28:35.060
I'm not disagreeing

28:35.060 --> 28:35.640
necessarily.

28:35.900 --> 28:36.660
The thing is,

28:37.000 --> 28:37.560
you know,

28:37.660 --> 28:39.040
with all of Apple's

28:39.040 --> 28:39.560
shit,

28:39.780 --> 28:40.380
they make it

28:40.380 --> 28:41.480
products that I like.

28:42.000 --> 28:42.240
So,

28:42.360 --> 28:42.880
to be honest,

28:42.980 --> 28:43.780
I don't really care

28:43.780 --> 28:44.500
if they're like

28:44.500 --> 28:45.220
that evil

28:45.220 --> 28:46.420
and I think

28:46.420 --> 28:47.540
in my opinion

28:47.540 --> 28:48.640
that they're less evil

28:48.640 --> 28:49.880
than some other vendors.

28:50.300 --> 28:50.640
Google.

28:51.080 --> 28:51.560
Woo!

28:52.480 --> 28:53.320
I'm going to go

28:53.320 --> 28:53.940
duck now.

28:54.080 --> 28:54.320
Yeah,

28:54.380 --> 28:54.860
exactly.

28:55.120 --> 28:55.660
I'm not saying

28:55.660 --> 28:56.620
I necessarily disagree

28:56.620 --> 28:56.960
with you.

28:57.020 --> 28:57.780
I'm just saying,

28:58.460 --> 28:58.760
yeah,

28:58.840 --> 28:59.340
we're going to get,

28:59.560 --> 29:00.100
we're going to catch

29:00.100 --> 29:00.780
hell for that one.

29:01.520 --> 29:01.820
Yeah,

29:01.920 --> 29:02.240
whatever.

29:02.760 --> 29:02.960
Listen,

29:03.500 --> 29:04.440
I brought this up.

29:04.620 --> 29:05.380
I brought this up

29:05.380 --> 29:06.080
last week too.

29:06.340 --> 29:06.860
I mean,

29:06.980 --> 29:08.540
I do like

29:08.540 --> 29:09.420
what I've seen

29:09.420 --> 29:10.060
and I do have

29:10.060 --> 29:10.820
limited experience

29:10.820 --> 29:11.980
admittedly with OSX

29:11.980 --> 29:13.220
and I threw out there

29:13.220 --> 29:14.240
the idea of,

29:14.740 --> 29:14.860
yeah,

29:15.000 --> 29:16.140
OSX is great

29:16.140 --> 29:17.160
but that doesn't

29:17.160 --> 29:18.820
justify the hardware

29:18.820 --> 29:20.080
that costs twice as much

29:20.080 --> 29:21.160
as the PC equivalent.

29:22.120 --> 29:22.320
You know,

29:22.400 --> 29:23.060
that's my problem.

29:23.140 --> 29:24.060
It's more on the hardware

29:24.060 --> 29:25.000
end than anything.

29:25.120 --> 29:26.120
That's my personal problem.

29:26.220 --> 29:27.560
I think they overprice it.

29:27.820 --> 29:28.260
And you know what?

29:28.700 --> 29:29.660
Let's go on

29:29.660 --> 29:30.400
to the next email

29:30.400 --> 29:31.600
because it's also

29:31.600 --> 29:32.780
related to this.

29:32.880 --> 29:33.080
So,

29:33.220 --> 29:34.000
do you want to take this one

29:34.000 --> 29:34.600
since you're on a roll?

29:35.300 --> 29:35.640
Yeah.

29:35.820 --> 29:35.980
Oh,

29:36.020 --> 29:36.320
actually,

29:36.440 --> 29:37.540
before I move on,

29:37.700 --> 29:38.880
it's kind of ironic,

29:39.360 --> 29:39.500
well,

29:39.580 --> 29:40.140
not ironic,

29:40.260 --> 29:41.280
but it's coincidental

29:41.280 --> 29:43.740
that last,

29:43.880 --> 29:44.840
so this weekend

29:44.840 --> 29:46.180
I was at Torcon

29:46.180 --> 29:51.720
and the new OSX 1010.48 upgrade

29:51.720 --> 29:52.360
came out

29:52.360 --> 29:53.220
and I'm like,

29:53.280 --> 29:53.380
oh,

29:53.440 --> 29:53.700
okay,

29:53.820 --> 29:54.580
I'm not doing anything.

29:54.680 --> 29:55.240
I'm just sitting here

29:55.240 --> 29:55.720
on the couch

29:55.720 --> 29:56.420
so I upgraded

29:56.420 --> 29:58.500
and after I upgraded

29:58.500 --> 30:00.220
and this is not the first time

30:00.220 --> 30:00.960
that it's happened,

30:01.900 --> 30:02.360
it's up,

30:02.500 --> 30:03.220
it fucked up

30:03.220 --> 30:04.880
my NetInfo database

30:04.880 --> 30:06.720
and I couldn't log in

30:06.720 --> 30:09.360
and this was like Saturday.

30:10.140 --> 30:11.400
Apple is so wonderful.

30:12.340 --> 30:12.620
Yeah,

30:12.820 --> 30:14.160
and like,

30:14.220 --> 30:15.320
this has happened before

30:15.320 --> 30:16.300
and you know,

30:16.400 --> 30:16.980
you go online

30:16.980 --> 30:17.500
and you look

30:17.500 --> 30:18.160
and it's like,

30:18.500 --> 30:18.720
yeah,

30:18.820 --> 30:19.620
if this happens

30:19.620 --> 30:20.800
then follow these steps

30:20.800 --> 30:22.380
to rebuild your NetInfo database.

30:22.560 --> 30:22.640
Oh,

30:22.680 --> 30:23.300
and by the way,

30:23.680 --> 30:24.660
NetInfo is like

30:24.660 --> 30:25.940
what OSX 10 uses

30:25.940 --> 30:27.560
for its like

30:27.560 --> 30:29.320
password stuff.

30:29.660 --> 30:29.980
I mean,

30:30.060 --> 30:30.580
it's basically

30:30.580 --> 30:31.420
an Etsy password

30:31.420 --> 30:33.440
but with more info in it

30:33.440 --> 30:34.480
and you can do more with it.

30:34.560 --> 30:35.360
Aside from that.

30:35.360 --> 30:36.100
All right,

30:36.280 --> 30:37.820
way to preach the...

30:37.820 --> 30:38.400
I rebuilt it

30:38.400 --> 30:39.260
and it doesn't work

30:39.260 --> 30:40.200
and for the whole weekend

30:40.200 --> 30:40.700
at Toricon

30:40.700 --> 30:42.460
I couldn't log into my laptop

30:42.460 --> 30:44.460
and yeah,

30:44.720 --> 30:45.980
and I got home

30:45.980 --> 30:47.040
and I just immediately

30:47.040 --> 30:47.860
reformatted.

30:48.280 --> 30:49.020
This is a great...

30:49.020 --> 30:49.580
Oh,

30:49.680 --> 30:50.100
there's more.

30:50.160 --> 30:51.200
And that's what I also did

30:51.200 --> 30:54.300
while I was reformatting

30:54.300 --> 30:55.280
my laptop,

30:55.700 --> 30:58.020
I ordered a ThinkPad T60.

30:59.800 --> 31:00.200
Yeah,

31:00.340 --> 31:00.840
you know,

31:00.980 --> 31:02.120
you're really not doing

31:02.120 --> 31:02.760
a good job

31:02.760 --> 31:04.660
of pimping out

31:04.660 --> 31:05.720
how great the Mac is

31:05.720 --> 31:06.700
with stories like that,

31:06.740 --> 31:07.100
you know?

31:07.700 --> 31:08.060
Dude,

31:08.160 --> 31:08.600
whatever.

31:08.820 --> 31:10.180
I'm not pimping anything.

31:10.360 --> 31:11.100
I'm just saying,

31:11.260 --> 31:11.840
you're not doing

31:11.840 --> 31:12.480
a good defense.

31:12.500 --> 31:13.640
I use what I use.

31:13.840 --> 31:14.940
So I'm going to end up

31:14.940 --> 31:15.920
selling my MacBook,

31:16.160 --> 31:16.580
I think,

31:16.960 --> 31:18.280
and just use it

31:18.280 --> 31:19.960
for a while.

31:20.480 --> 31:20.880
Yes!

31:22.480 --> 31:22.920
Oh,

31:23.020 --> 31:23.920
that was awesome.

31:24.940 --> 31:25.460
Anyway.

31:25.720 --> 31:26.640
I still stand by

31:26.640 --> 31:27.740
everything I said

31:27.740 --> 31:28.580
about Apple.

31:28.720 --> 31:29.020
Right,

31:29.100 --> 31:30.000
but you're going to sell it,

31:30.040 --> 31:30.280
sure,

31:30.440 --> 31:30.680
okay.

31:30.920 --> 31:31.400
Why don't you read

31:31.400 --> 31:31.980
the next email?

31:31.980 --> 31:33.180
You're digging yourself

31:33.180 --> 31:33.860
so deep

31:33.860 --> 31:34.400
that I don't know

31:34.400 --> 31:35.200
if they make ladders

31:35.200 --> 31:36.060
that tall now.

31:37.740 --> 31:38.260
Okay.

31:38.600 --> 31:39.640
The next email

31:39.640 --> 31:40.660
is from

31:40.660 --> 31:41.260
Zed

31:41.260 --> 31:42.680
Senthau.

31:43.320 --> 31:44.160
He says,

31:44.580 --> 31:46.000
I have a quick question

31:46.000 --> 31:46.500
for you.

31:46.940 --> 31:48.020
I've been in IT,

31:48.300 --> 31:49.580
I've been involved

31:49.580 --> 31:50.060
in IT

31:50.060 --> 31:51.400
for many years now

31:51.400 --> 31:52.760
as a service engineer

31:52.760 --> 31:53.660
often install

31:53.660 --> 31:54.420
Windows networks

31:54.420 --> 31:55.560
and use the dreaded

31:55.560 --> 31:56.420
Microsoft apps

31:56.420 --> 31:57.380
and OS every day.

31:57.700 --> 31:58.640
But a few years ago,

31:58.720 --> 31:59.840
I decided to try out

31:59.840 --> 32:00.760
an Apple Mac

32:00.760 --> 32:01.960
and now would never

32:01.960 --> 32:02.800
use anything else

32:02.800 --> 32:03.260
at home.

32:03.560 --> 32:04.380
Not having to worry

32:04.380 --> 32:05.000
about viruses

32:05.000 --> 32:05.760
and spyware

32:05.760 --> 32:06.300
as a bonus

32:06.300 --> 32:06.960
when surfing

32:06.960 --> 32:07.820
dodgy sites,

32:08.140 --> 32:08.980
but the reliability

32:08.980 --> 32:10.480
of everything Mac

32:10.480 --> 32:11.740
just makes me

32:11.740 --> 32:12.820
sure that I'll

32:12.820 --> 32:13.820
stick with my Apple.

32:14.480 --> 32:16.080
On the odd occasion

32:16.080 --> 32:16.720
I've heard

32:16.720 --> 32:17.540
that

32:17.540 --> 32:19.260
Mac and radio

32:19.260 --> 32:20.120
is more often

32:20.120 --> 32:20.580
than Mac

32:20.580 --> 32:21.280
disrespected.

32:21.540 --> 32:21.900
Why?

32:22.180 --> 32:23.420
Why not have a session

32:23.420 --> 32:24.300
on the radio

32:24.300 --> 32:24.680
about

32:24.680 --> 32:25.700
and tags

32:25.700 --> 32:26.600
of owning a Mac

32:26.600 --> 32:27.600
and its uses

32:27.600 --> 32:28.800
or uselessness

32:28.800 --> 32:29.720
in the world

32:29.720 --> 32:30.380
of the hacker?

32:30.860 --> 32:31.200
Well,

32:31.340 --> 32:32.120
that's it for now.

32:32.240 --> 32:33.280
Take care and best wishes

32:33.280 --> 32:34.660
from South Wales

32:34.660 --> 32:35.500
in the UK.

32:36.600 --> 32:37.140
All right.

32:37.300 --> 32:38.440
You kind of broke up

32:38.440 --> 32:38.940
on us there,

32:39.040 --> 32:39.760
so let me repeat

32:39.760 --> 32:40.700
just those last couple

32:40.700 --> 32:41.200
of sentences

32:41.200 --> 32:42.120
from this end

32:42.120 --> 32:43.820
because I'm not sure

32:43.820 --> 32:44.460
if they came through,

32:44.540 --> 32:45.100
but it said,

32:45.200 --> 32:46.760
on the odd occasions

32:46.760 --> 32:47.560
I've heard anyone

32:47.560 --> 32:48.320
mention Mac

32:48.320 --> 32:49.240
on BinRev Radio,

32:49.380 --> 32:50.360
it's more often

32:50.360 --> 32:51.640
than not disrespected.

32:51.920 --> 32:52.420
And why?

32:52.900 --> 32:53.800
Why not have a session

32:53.800 --> 32:54.520
on BinRev Radio

32:54.520 --> 32:55.140
about the plus

32:55.140 --> 32:55.620
and negs

32:55.620 --> 32:56.360
of owning a Mac

32:56.360 --> 32:57.380
and its uses

32:57.380 --> 32:58.380
or uselessness

32:58.380 --> 32:59.420
in the world

32:59.420 --> 33:00.220
of the hacker?

33:00.500 --> 33:01.140
So that was really

33:01.140 --> 33:02.260
the gist of his email

33:02.260 --> 33:03.420
shortened.

33:04.740 --> 33:05.820
I think we kind of

33:05.820 --> 33:06.540
just went into this,

33:06.640 --> 33:07.560
and I want to hurry up

33:07.560 --> 33:08.260
and get through this email,

33:08.440 --> 33:09.520
but I think Jason

33:09.520 --> 33:10.500
from the previous letter

33:10.500 --> 33:11.780
answered it pretty well

33:11.780 --> 33:12.880
from my standpoint,

33:13.040 --> 33:13.600
the proprietary.

33:14.100 --> 33:15.300
I can sum it up

33:15.300 --> 33:16.320
in one quick sentence

33:16.320 --> 33:18.700
that it's proprietary,

33:19.260 --> 33:19.980
overpriced,

33:20.140 --> 33:21.300
underpowered hardware

33:21.300 --> 33:21.960
and software.

33:22.140 --> 33:23.200
That period.

33:23.200 --> 33:23.980
That simple.

33:24.080 --> 33:24.440
And actually,

33:24.720 --> 33:25.980
I'll even be willing

33:25.980 --> 33:27.420
to take out the software

33:27.420 --> 33:28.540
and just say,

33:28.940 --> 33:29.440
proprietary,

33:29.660 --> 33:30.160
overpriced,

33:30.220 --> 33:31.180
underpowered hardware.

33:31.360 --> 33:32.740
That is my big beef

33:32.740 --> 33:33.680
with Apple.

33:33.780 --> 33:34.340
And you know what?

33:35.440 --> 33:36.560
That's just my opinion.

33:36.680 --> 33:37.600
There's nothing necessarily

33:37.600 --> 33:38.560
wrong with that

33:38.560 --> 33:39.640
as a business practice

33:39.640 --> 33:40.320
as the way they want

33:40.320 --> 33:40.760
to do this.

33:40.820 --> 33:41.280
You want to make

33:41.280 --> 33:42.200
proprietary software?

33:42.780 --> 33:43.500
That's fine,

33:43.620 --> 33:45.500
but I'm not going to fall

33:45.500 --> 33:46.740
for this marketing bullshit

33:46.740 --> 33:47.620
and all this money

33:47.620 --> 33:48.520
they put into commercials

33:48.520 --> 33:49.280
and advertising,

33:49.540 --> 33:50.480
which is probably why

33:50.480 --> 33:51.060
they have to raise

33:51.060 --> 33:51.900
the price so much.

33:51.900 --> 33:53.060
But there's a reason

33:53.060 --> 33:54.260
they only have 5%

33:54.260 --> 33:56.060
of the PC market.

33:56.680 --> 33:57.060
There's only,

33:57.220 --> 33:58.480
they don't have the sales

33:58.480 --> 34:00.120
that IBM clones

34:00.120 --> 34:01.020
or PC clones

34:01.020 --> 34:01.540
or whatever you want

34:01.540 --> 34:01.780
to call it.

34:01.940 --> 34:03.260
IBM made the same mistake

34:03.260 --> 34:04.860
when the PC first came out.

34:04.980 --> 34:05.600
They tried to make

34:05.600 --> 34:06.600
proprietary hardware

34:06.600 --> 34:08.100
and then all of a sudden

34:08.100 --> 34:09.320
Dell came out

34:09.320 --> 34:10.500
and Gateway came out

34:10.500 --> 34:13.440
and all these other

34:13.440 --> 34:14.160
companies came out

34:14.160 --> 34:14.880
and all these clones

34:14.880 --> 34:15.160
started,

34:15.300 --> 34:16.020
and they just blew

34:16.020 --> 34:16.480
them right away.

34:16.480 --> 34:17.920
They completely destroyed

34:17.920 --> 34:19.540
them in the PC market.

34:19.740 --> 34:20.860
Same thing happened then.

34:21.260 --> 34:22.220
Mac gets away with it

34:22.220 --> 34:23.420
because they have done

34:23.420 --> 34:25.020
some very innovative things.

34:25.080 --> 34:25.880
I will not take that

34:25.880 --> 34:26.520
away from them,

34:27.080 --> 34:29.700
but they just want

34:29.700 --> 34:31.480
too much control over it.

34:31.580 --> 34:32.640
They're trying to double dip

34:32.640 --> 34:33.840
on the hardware

34:33.840 --> 34:34.680
and the software

34:34.680 --> 34:36.260
and the digital rights

34:36.260 --> 34:36.740
management

34:36.740 --> 34:37.980
and the intellectual property

34:37.980 --> 34:39.500
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

34:40.700 --> 34:41.220
I don't know.

34:41.280 --> 34:42.360
I think we've beaten it to death.

34:42.360 --> 34:43.200
I know that we've done

34:43.200 --> 34:45.380
episodes on Mac

34:45.380 --> 34:46.640
and Mac OS X

34:46.640 --> 34:47.380
and discussed it

34:47.380 --> 34:48.420
very early,

34:48.560 --> 34:49.360
like Season 1,

34:49.500 --> 34:49.980
Season 2.

34:50.080 --> 34:50.760
I'm pretty sure we had

34:50.760 --> 34:51.720
Logan 5 on.

34:51.880 --> 34:52.860
We've talked about it.

34:54.360 --> 34:55.480
I'm certain we've beaten

34:55.480 --> 34:57.120
this topic to death.

34:57.220 --> 34:57.760
Cypher X,

34:57.780 --> 34:58.400
I know it was on,

34:58.460 --> 34:59.140
talked about it,

34:59.200 --> 35:01.040
so I don't know.

35:01.120 --> 35:02.560
I don't want to...

35:02.560 --> 35:03.280
I think we've already

35:03.280 --> 35:04.500
done enough on Mac

35:04.500 --> 35:05.180
for this episode.

35:05.300 --> 35:05.760
What do you think?

35:07.260 --> 35:08.280
Yeah, I think it was

35:08.280 --> 35:09.000
that's funny.

35:10.280 --> 35:12.280
I think I'm never...

35:12.280 --> 35:14.120
Alright, you sound

35:14.120 --> 35:15.060
completely like a

35:15.060 --> 35:15.780
fucking transformer

35:15.780 --> 35:16.340
right now,

35:16.440 --> 35:17.820
so I'm going to pretend

35:17.820 --> 35:18.520
you didn't say anything

35:18.520 --> 35:18.980
because I don't know

35:18.980 --> 35:19.960
what the hell you said anyway

35:19.960 --> 35:21.260
and give you time

35:21.260 --> 35:22.400
to go open a window,

35:22.580 --> 35:23.240
hang your head out

35:23.240 --> 35:23.580
or something

35:23.580 --> 35:24.380
and get a signal

35:24.380 --> 35:25.420
on that shitty phone

35:25.420 --> 35:25.820
of yours

35:25.820 --> 35:28.020
and I'm going to go ahead

35:28.020 --> 35:29.000
and read this last email

35:29.000 --> 35:29.440
quickly.

35:29.540 --> 35:30.300
Can you hear me okay?

35:31.920 --> 35:33.960
I can barely hear you.

35:34.120 --> 35:35.040
Oh, your phone

35:35.040 --> 35:35.820
is the suck sore

35:35.820 --> 35:37.000
and you suck at the online.

35:37.740 --> 35:38.360
The last...

35:38.360 --> 35:38.860
Hey, I'm back.

35:39.020 --> 35:39.520
I'm back.

35:39.640 --> 35:40.400
Alright, there you go.

35:40.420 --> 35:40.740
I threw my head

35:40.740 --> 35:41.420
out the window

35:41.420 --> 35:42.480
and I'm back.

35:42.980 --> 35:43.780
Alright, well then

35:43.780 --> 35:45.700
can you read the last email

35:45.700 --> 35:46.520
or do you want me to?

35:47.240 --> 35:48.160
No, I got it.

35:48.220 --> 35:48.880
I got this.

35:49.100 --> 35:50.240
He's hanging out the window

35:50.240 --> 35:51.160
on one leg.

35:51.260 --> 35:51.660
The last email

35:51.660 --> 35:52.720
is from Gerald.

35:53.100 --> 35:54.420
Gerald or something.

35:54.800 --> 35:55.280
I can't read.

35:55.500 --> 35:55.880
It's okay.

35:56.400 --> 35:57.760
Well, first of all...

35:57.760 --> 35:58.900
Well, first of all,

35:58.940 --> 35:59.780
I just wanted to say

35:59.780 --> 36:00.460
I love the show.

36:01.360 --> 36:02.580
I would like to recommend

36:02.580 --> 36:03.960
HackinMedia.org

36:03.960 --> 36:04.900
to your listeners

36:04.900 --> 36:06.200
who crave more shows

36:06.200 --> 36:06.920
like this one.

36:06.920 --> 36:08.260
I know that it is

36:08.260 --> 36:09.160
part of the DDP

36:09.160 --> 36:10.600
but there might

36:10.600 --> 36:12.400
be a few listeners

36:12.400 --> 36:13.500
who don't know about it.

36:13.960 --> 36:15.280
Also, I want to recommend

36:15.280 --> 36:17.340
the Backtrack Live CD Distro

36:17.340 --> 36:18.240
for those who want

36:18.240 --> 36:19.280
to try out a few

36:19.280 --> 36:20.400
of the open source tools

36:20.400 --> 36:21.120
you guys covered.

36:21.780 --> 36:22.580
Backtrack is

36:22.580 --> 36:23.640
a result of

36:23.640 --> 36:24.700
WAX and Auditor

36:24.700 --> 36:25.880
being combined

36:25.880 --> 36:26.920
and could be found

36:26.920 --> 36:29.380
at remote-exploit.org.

36:29.380 --> 36:30.940
All right.

36:30.940 --> 36:31.280
All right.

36:31.720 --> 36:32.500
Yeah, I mean,

36:32.560 --> 36:33.820
definitely, like,

36:34.280 --> 36:35.480
HackinMedia.org

36:35.480 --> 36:36.460
is awesome

36:36.460 --> 36:37.540
and if you don't

36:37.540 --> 36:38.320
know about it,

36:38.460 --> 36:38.640
you know,

36:38.660 --> 36:39.500
definitely check it out.

36:39.580 --> 36:40.580
They have a lot of shows,

36:40.700 --> 36:41.680
a lot of quality shows

36:41.680 --> 36:43.480
that if you enjoy this one

36:43.480 --> 36:44.280
that you would probably

36:44.280 --> 36:45.020
like also.

36:45.760 --> 36:46.700
And also,

36:46.880 --> 36:47.820
thanks for talking

36:47.820 --> 36:49.240
about Backtrack.

36:49.520 --> 36:49.780
I mean,

36:49.840 --> 36:51.040
I've used Backtrack

36:51.040 --> 36:51.680
and Auditor

36:51.680 --> 36:52.900
and, you know,

36:52.940 --> 36:53.540
they're both

36:53.540 --> 36:55.680
actually very quality

36:55.680 --> 36:57.480
live distro CDs

36:57.480 --> 36:58.600
for doing pen testing

36:58.600 --> 36:59.900
and all of that stuff.

37:00.480 --> 37:01.560
Definitely check it out

37:01.560 --> 37:02.700
if you want to play around

37:02.700 --> 37:03.980
with, you know,

37:04.240 --> 37:05.680
just running some tools

37:05.680 --> 37:06.920
and seeing how they work.

37:08.080 --> 37:09.080
Yeah, good stuff.

37:09.200 --> 37:09.340
I mean,

37:09.380 --> 37:10.480
we've definitely mentioned

37:10.480 --> 37:11.400
all of those sites

37:11.400 --> 37:12.520
on the show before.

37:12.900 --> 37:13.220
Also,

37:13.300 --> 37:14.500
not only HackinMedia.org

37:14.500 --> 37:14.980
but if you like

37:14.980 --> 37:15.860
this type of show,

37:16.280 --> 37:16.660
check out

37:16.660 --> 37:18.080
ddphackradio.org

37:18.080 --> 37:18.920
which is a streaming

37:18.920 --> 37:19.640
radio station

37:19.640 --> 37:20.460
24-7

37:20.460 --> 37:22.360
playing reruns

37:22.360 --> 37:23.160
of BinRev Radio,

37:23.380 --> 37:23.920
playing a lot

37:23.920 --> 37:24.720
of other great shows.

37:24.840 --> 37:25.660
A scheduling list

37:25.660 --> 37:27.200
is on the front page

37:27.200 --> 37:27.560
of that.

37:27.700 --> 37:27.880
So,

37:27.880 --> 37:28.540
if you want to sit

37:28.540 --> 37:29.220
and listen at work

37:29.220 --> 37:30.060
and things like that

37:30.060 --> 37:31.400
and your headphones,

37:31.560 --> 37:31.780
of course,

37:31.840 --> 37:32.540
because I like to drop

37:32.540 --> 37:33.080
the F-bomb

37:33.080 --> 37:34.120
for those who don't

37:34.120 --> 37:34.780
already know.

37:35.840 --> 37:37.000
Definitely worth repeating

37:37.000 --> 37:37.960
and mentioning them.

37:38.480 --> 37:38.800
Now,

37:39.040 --> 37:41.140
we are going to go

37:41.140 --> 37:42.100
into our main topic.

37:42.220 --> 37:43.240
We've got about,

37:43.460 --> 37:43.900
I don't know,

37:44.280 --> 37:45.900
40 minutes total

37:45.900 --> 37:47.020
left.

37:47.160 --> 37:47.400
So,

37:47.520 --> 37:48.660
let's try to

37:48.660 --> 37:50.980
quickly go over

37:50.980 --> 37:52.060
IPv4

37:52.060 --> 37:53.960
enough to,

37:54.040 --> 37:54.920
because we need to set

37:54.920 --> 37:56.000
the table a little bit

37:56.000 --> 37:56.760
before we go into

37:56.760 --> 37:57.580
IPv6.

37:57.680 --> 37:58.580
As much as we'd like

37:58.580 --> 37:59.580
to dive into it,

38:00.340 --> 38:01.300
we do need to talk

38:01.300 --> 38:02.420
about IPv4.

38:02.520 --> 38:02.600
So,

38:02.680 --> 38:03.460
I want to briefly,

38:03.580 --> 38:04.400
just a few minutes,

38:04.500 --> 38:05.140
go through

38:05.140 --> 38:06.500
at least some of the

38:06.500 --> 38:07.540
main points that are

38:07.540 --> 38:08.660
going to come into play

38:08.660 --> 38:09.840
again in IPv6,

38:09.840 --> 38:13.180
specifically like the

38:13.180 --> 38:15.220
class ABCD address

38:15.220 --> 38:16.860
structure that's in

38:16.860 --> 38:17.280
place.

38:17.480 --> 38:18.680
With IPv4,

38:18.900 --> 38:19.780
you have the four

38:19.780 --> 38:21.420
octets of numbers

38:21.420 --> 38:22.360
that we're all used

38:22.360 --> 38:24.460
to in your address.

38:24.840 --> 38:25.160
And,

38:25.540 --> 38:27.020
class A is anything

38:27.020 --> 38:27.760
with that first

38:27.760 --> 38:28.060
number,

38:28.160 --> 38:28.660
for example,

38:29.480 --> 38:29.860
I don't know,

38:29.960 --> 38:34.280
117.x.x.x,

38:34.420 --> 38:35.420
which is a class A

38:35.420 --> 38:36.080
address that means

38:36.080 --> 38:39.140
you have 117.0.0.1,

38:39.140 --> 38:39.860
all the way

38:39.860 --> 38:43.240
through 117.255.255.255.255,

38:43.280 --> 38:43.900
for example.

38:45.540 --> 38:46.380
That's important

38:46.380 --> 38:47.040
because basically

38:47.040 --> 38:47.840
what you realize is

38:47.840 --> 38:48.460
with a class A

38:48.460 --> 38:48.820
address,

38:48.920 --> 38:49.300
you have the

38:49.300 --> 38:50.640
flexibility of three

38:50.640 --> 38:51.580
different numbers in

38:51.580 --> 38:51.780
there,

38:51.880 --> 38:52.640
which gives you a

38:52.640 --> 38:55.140
huge number of IP

38:55.140 --> 38:56.300
addresses available to

38:56.300 --> 38:56.540
you.

38:57.100 --> 38:57.240
So,

38:57.320 --> 38:58.060
class A addresses

38:58.060 --> 38:59.420
are reserved for

38:59.420 --> 39:01.140
large backbone

39:01.780 --> 39:02.300
providers,

39:02.420 --> 39:03.180
large ISPs,

39:03.400 --> 39:04.140
usually big telcos.

39:06.360 --> 39:06.760
I don't know,

39:06.820 --> 39:07.680
any other examples

39:07.680 --> 39:08.160
you can think of

39:08.160 --> 39:09.020
a class A addresses,

39:09.180 --> 39:09.620
universities,

39:10.000 --> 39:10.440
maybe,

39:10.520 --> 39:10.980
I don't even think

39:10.980 --> 39:11.700
universities really

39:11.700 --> 39:12.000
get them,

39:12.060 --> 39:12.280
do they?

39:12.680 --> 39:13.040
No,

39:13.220 --> 39:13.500
like,

39:13.560 --> 39:15.180
class A is reserved

39:15.180 --> 39:16.260
for people with

39:16.260 --> 39:17.400
the money and power

39:17.400 --> 39:18.320
and,

39:18.380 --> 39:18.620
you know,

39:18.660 --> 39:19.560
who are around

39:19.560 --> 39:20.680
enough,

39:20.880 --> 39:21.300
like,

39:21.660 --> 39:22.580
long ago enough

39:22.580 --> 39:23.500
to reserve them.

39:23.640 --> 39:23.920
I mean,

39:24.000 --> 39:25.640
you really can't

39:25.640 --> 39:26.420
get into class A

39:26.420 --> 39:26.720
anymore,

39:26.800 --> 39:27.080
but like,

39:27.100 --> 39:27.720
the military

39:27.720 --> 39:28.820
probably has some,

39:29.820 --> 39:30.060
and,

39:30.320 --> 39:30.740
yeah,

39:30.840 --> 39:31.520
that's about it.

39:31.660 --> 39:31.820
Yeah,

39:31.900 --> 39:32.260
good point.

39:32.340 --> 39:32.680
I didn't think

39:32.680 --> 39:33.540
military governments

39:33.540 --> 39:34.280
probably got some

39:34.280 --> 39:34.540
of them.

39:34.540 --> 39:35.100
And,

39:35.100 --> 39:35.320
you know,

39:35.360 --> 39:35.840
if they show

39:35.840 --> 39:36.420
a reason,

39:37.220 --> 39:37.680
a lot of them

39:37.680 --> 39:38.080
were assigned

39:38.080 --> 39:38.380
earlier,

39:38.520 --> 39:38.660
right,

39:38.720 --> 39:39.180
but some of them

39:39.180 --> 39:40.040
have been reassigned

39:40.040 --> 39:40.380
and stuff.

39:40.460 --> 39:41.180
If you show a reason

39:41.180 --> 39:41.680
that you need,

39:41.760 --> 39:41.900
like,

39:41.960 --> 39:42.400
for example,

39:43.060 --> 39:43.680
let's say,

39:43.760 --> 39:44.320
I don't know,

39:44.500 --> 39:45.080
Bell South,

39:45.220 --> 39:45.500
again,

39:45.560 --> 39:46.020
for example,

39:46.400 --> 39:47.560
they may have

39:47.560 --> 39:48.220
class A,

39:48.320 --> 39:48.820
I'm not sure

39:48.820 --> 39:49.500
if they do or not,

39:49.820 --> 39:50.420
if somebody can

39:50.420 --> 39:50.940
confirm that,

39:51.000 --> 39:51.780
but I'll email us,

39:52.000 --> 39:53.080
but they may have

39:53.080 --> 39:53.940
a class A address

39:53.940 --> 39:56.620
because they,

39:56.860 --> 39:57.760
it's known that

39:57.760 --> 39:58.500
they have a lot

39:58.500 --> 39:59.220
of users,

39:59.780 --> 40:00.380
business and

40:00.380 --> 40:00.820
residential,

40:00.820 --> 40:01.340
that they're going

40:01.340 --> 40:01.880
to need a lot

40:01.880 --> 40:02.540
of IP addresses

40:02.540 --> 40:02.980
so they can

40:02.980 --> 40:03.760
justify getting

40:03.760 --> 40:04.640
a class A address

40:04.640 --> 40:05.300
assigned to them

40:05.300 --> 40:06.160
or approved for them.

40:06.980 --> 40:07.760
And as you go down

40:07.760 --> 40:08.300
through those

40:08.300 --> 40:09.520
classes of address,

40:09.700 --> 40:10.540
B would be

40:10.540 --> 40:12.600
a fixed first node,

40:12.740 --> 40:13.420
their first octet

40:13.420 --> 40:13.800
would be,

40:13.900 --> 40:13.980
say,

40:14.100 --> 40:16.920
176 dot,

40:17.540 --> 40:18.780
and then you'll get

40:18.780 --> 40:20.580
one class second node

40:20.580 --> 40:21.200
assigned to you,

40:21.220 --> 40:22.320
like 180,

40:22.540 --> 40:22.820
I don't know,

40:22.840 --> 40:23.680
I'm making up numbers,

40:23.780 --> 40:24.420
which I hope I don't

40:24.420 --> 40:25.120
accidentally use a

40:25.120 --> 40:25.740
reserved one,

40:25.820 --> 40:26.240
as an idiot,

40:27.620 --> 40:29.040
dots X dot X.

40:29.220 --> 40:30.140
So you don't have

40:30.140 --> 40:31.320
as many as a class A,

40:31.780 --> 40:32.640
but you still have

40:32.640 --> 40:33.360
a large block.

40:33.460 --> 40:34.740
And I've worked

40:34.740 --> 40:35.440
for places that have

40:35.440 --> 40:36.440
had class B addresses

40:36.440 --> 40:36.900
before,

40:37.240 --> 40:38.360
you still get a lot

40:38.360 --> 40:39.140
of freaking addresses

40:39.140 --> 40:39.760
on there.

40:41.040 --> 40:41.580
And anyway,

40:41.680 --> 40:42.160
to summarize,

40:42.420 --> 40:43.060
the further you go

40:43.060 --> 40:43.380
down there,

40:43.440 --> 40:45.240
class C has even

40:45.240 --> 40:46.060
fewer addresses,

40:46.780 --> 40:48.140
and so on and so forth.

40:48.240 --> 40:49.180
So I think,

40:49.660 --> 40:50.780
keep that in mind

40:50.780 --> 40:51.960
because that does,

40:52.400 --> 40:53.020
that is one of the

40:53.020 --> 40:54.160
problems with IPv4

40:54.160 --> 40:54.860
is you have a

40:54.860 --> 40:55.520
limited number.

40:55.940 --> 40:56.500
You have those

40:56.500 --> 40:57.320
four octets,

40:57.860 --> 40:58.880
it's a 32-bit

40:58.880 --> 40:59.600
address range,

40:59.700 --> 41:00.220
which means

41:00.220 --> 41:02.000
you can only

41:02.000 --> 41:02.540
have numbers

41:02.540 --> 41:03.140
up to a certain

41:03.140 --> 41:03.560
size,

41:03.660 --> 41:04.120
certain length,

41:04.300 --> 41:05.020
255.

41:06.280 --> 41:08.420
And because of that,

41:08.900 --> 41:09.740
you're limited to

41:09.740 --> 41:10.660
about 4.2,

41:10.720 --> 41:11.640
4.3 billion

41:11.640 --> 41:13.080
possible addresses.

41:13.080 --> 41:15.100
And I kind of made

41:15.100 --> 41:16.080
one metaphor to

41:16.080 --> 41:16.600
phone numbers

41:16.600 --> 41:17.940
last week

41:17.940 --> 41:18.880
as far as routing,

41:18.980 --> 41:19.340
and we're not going

41:19.340 --> 41:19.940
to talk about routing

41:19.940 --> 41:20.800
too much here on

41:20.800 --> 41:21.440
IPv4,

41:21.740 --> 41:22.720
but another similarity

41:22.720 --> 41:23.360
to phone numbers

41:23.360 --> 41:24.540
is how we run out

41:24.540 --> 41:27.160
of unique phone numbers

41:27.160 --> 41:28.140
as cities begin to

41:28.140 --> 41:28.420
grow.

41:28.820 --> 41:29.480
And they end up

41:29.480 --> 41:30.400
having to branch off

41:30.400 --> 41:31.520
and create a new

41:31.520 --> 41:33.020
area code within a

41:33.020 --> 41:33.800
city as it grows

41:33.800 --> 41:34.520
because they've run

41:34.520 --> 41:35.380
out of unique numbers

41:35.380 --> 41:36.340
to assign to people

41:36.340 --> 41:37.100
for phone numbers.

41:37.700 --> 41:38.260
And they begin

41:38.260 --> 41:39.040
reusing them and

41:39.040 --> 41:39.660
things like that.

41:39.660 --> 41:40.880
So it's a similar

41:40.880 --> 41:41.500
problem.

41:41.640 --> 41:42.340
You have a limited

41:42.340 --> 41:44.460
number of unique

41:44.460 --> 41:45.420
numbers that you can

41:45.420 --> 41:45.640
use,

41:45.700 --> 41:46.240
whether it's phone

41:46.240 --> 41:49.720
number or IPv4 IP

41:49.720 --> 41:50.200
addresses.

41:51.160 --> 41:52.720
So that is one of

41:52.720 --> 41:52.940
the,

41:53.040 --> 41:53.600
and probably the

41:53.600 --> 41:55.260
primary driver.

41:56.660 --> 41:57.580
That's an opinion,

41:57.760 --> 41:58.020
but I mean,

41:58.060 --> 41:58.460
would you agree

41:58.460 --> 41:59.160
that's the primary

41:59.160 --> 42:00.160
reason that the

42:00.160 --> 42:01.360
push to IPv6 is

42:01.360 --> 42:01.900
really going,

42:02.240 --> 42:02.860
getting pushed?

42:02.860 --> 42:04.420
Yeah,

42:04.480 --> 42:04.680
I mean,

42:04.720 --> 42:05.060
definitely.

42:05.620 --> 42:05.980
Well,

42:06.100 --> 42:07.240
at least initially

42:07.240 --> 42:08.740
because everyone's

42:08.740 --> 42:09.380
been complaining

42:09.380 --> 42:10.420
about,

42:10.600 --> 42:10.820
you know,

42:10.840 --> 42:11.020
like,

42:11.080 --> 42:11.220
oh,

42:11.240 --> 42:11.620
we're going to

42:11.620 --> 42:12.120
run out of

42:12.120 --> 42:12.540
addresses,

42:12.900 --> 42:13.200
you know,

42:13.340 --> 42:14.400
in like two years.

42:14.400 --> 42:14.980
They were saying

42:14.980 --> 42:15.860
that in like 98

42:15.860 --> 42:16.360
or whatever.

42:16.640 --> 42:17.820
But now that,

42:17.960 --> 42:18.060
you know,

42:18.100 --> 42:18.700
people are using

42:18.700 --> 42:19.120
that,

42:19.280 --> 42:19.960
then that's not

42:19.960 --> 42:21.200
really kind of

42:21.200 --> 42:22.320
an argument anymore.

42:22.580 --> 42:22.780
But,

42:22.920 --> 42:23.020
you know,

42:23.040 --> 42:23.500
there are some

42:23.500 --> 42:23.980
other stuff,

42:24.040 --> 42:24.440
but that was

42:24.440 --> 42:24.760
definitely,

42:24.940 --> 42:25.300
I think,

42:25.620 --> 42:26.420
one of the main

42:26.420 --> 42:27.020
motivations.

42:27.360 --> 42:27.560
Well,

42:27.680 --> 42:27.920
and that.

42:28.500 --> 42:29.060
Because the thing

42:29.060 --> 42:29.320
is,

42:29.540 --> 42:29.840
you know,

42:29.940 --> 42:31.740
if you see like,

42:31.800 --> 42:31.960
oh,

42:32.020 --> 42:32.240
okay,

42:33.020 --> 42:34.360
32 bits is what,

42:34.440 --> 42:35.580
like 4.2 billion.

42:35.820 --> 42:36.140
And like,

42:36.420 --> 42:36.720
that's,

42:36.820 --> 42:37.000
you know,

42:37.060 --> 42:38.220
that's not that much,

42:38.340 --> 42:39.400
but it's still decent.

42:39.900 --> 42:40.940
But keep in mind

42:40.940 --> 42:42.080
that a lot of those

42:42.080 --> 42:43.220
you can't use,

42:43.560 --> 42:43.920
you know,

42:44.080 --> 42:45.740
like a lot of those

42:45.740 --> 42:47.080
ranges are reserved

42:47.080 --> 42:47.720
for stuff.

42:48.020 --> 42:48.520
And also,

42:48.760 --> 42:49.560
you end up with,

42:49.760 --> 42:50.000
you know,

42:50.040 --> 42:51.080
no matter what you do,

42:51.120 --> 42:51.360
really,

42:51.440 --> 42:51.980
you end up with

42:51.980 --> 42:53.100
a fragmentation.

42:53.420 --> 42:53.780
So like,

42:53.800 --> 42:55.320
let's say you give

42:55.320 --> 42:56.620
an ISP a Class A,

42:56.720 --> 42:56.940
right?

42:57.260 --> 42:57.580
Right.

42:57.580 --> 42:58.420
They're not going

42:58.420 --> 42:59.140
to have,

42:59.380 --> 42:59.840
you know,

42:59.900 --> 43:00.260
they're not going

43:00.260 --> 43:01.200
to have every single

43:01.200 --> 43:01.800
one of those

43:01.800 --> 43:02.500
being used

43:02.500 --> 43:03.100
because,

43:03.200 --> 43:03.360
you know,

43:03.380 --> 43:03.660
they're going

43:03.660 --> 43:04.220
to save some

43:04.220 --> 43:05.140
for future customers

43:05.140 --> 43:06.420
or they just,

43:06.500 --> 43:06.680
you know,

43:06.720 --> 43:07.440
have a Class A

43:07.440 --> 43:07.840
and they're just

43:07.840 --> 43:08.460
sitting on it.

43:08.740 --> 43:09.220
So that means

43:09.220 --> 43:09.760
other people

43:09.760 --> 43:10.540
can't use those

43:10.540 --> 43:11.880
possible available

43:11.880 --> 43:12.420
addresses.

43:12.960 --> 43:13.380
So,

43:13.480 --> 43:13.740
you know,

43:13.780 --> 43:14.880
a lot of fragmentation

43:14.880 --> 43:15.460
goes there.

43:15.460 --> 43:17.180
And then when you

43:17.180 --> 43:18.140
get to Class B,

43:18.420 --> 43:19.260
you end up,

43:19.360 --> 43:19.520
you know,

43:19.560 --> 43:20.020
so Class A

43:20.020 --> 43:20.240
is like,

43:20.340 --> 43:20.400
what,

43:20.640 --> 43:21.780
$16 million?

43:22.040 --> 43:22.320
And like,

43:22.360 --> 43:22.940
Class B,

43:23.280 --> 43:24.720
you jump from

43:24.720 --> 43:25.360
$16 million

43:25.360 --> 43:26.540
to like $65,000.

43:27.180 --> 43:27.620
So,

43:27.760 --> 43:28.000
you know,

43:28.100 --> 43:29.300
you lose a lot

43:29.300 --> 43:30.080
just,

43:30.200 --> 43:30.460
you know,

43:30.560 --> 43:31.460
by jumping

43:31.460 --> 43:32.100
from Class A

43:32.100 --> 43:32.500
to B.

43:32.760 --> 43:33.000
Right.

43:33.000 --> 43:33.420
And there aren't

43:33.420 --> 43:33.880
that many

43:33.880 --> 43:34.400
Class A

43:34.400 --> 43:34.800
addresses,

43:35.160 --> 43:36.440
address families.

43:36.940 --> 43:37.880
And you mentioned

43:37.880 --> 43:38.280
that,

43:38.480 --> 43:38.980
which is,

43:39.540 --> 43:40.480
so basically,

43:40.580 --> 43:41.700
the primary driving

43:41.700 --> 43:42.140
reason,

43:42.420 --> 43:43.380
in my opinion,

43:43.380 --> 43:44.360
is the sheer

43:44.360 --> 43:44.800
number,

43:44.960 --> 43:45.300
the limit,

43:45.380 --> 43:46.700
because NAT

43:46.700 --> 43:47.540
is a temporary

43:47.540 --> 43:49.180
solution in that

43:49.180 --> 43:50.680
you are assigning

43:50.680 --> 43:51.600
internal addresses

43:51.600 --> 43:52.680
behind the scenes

43:52.680 --> 43:53.920
and letting your

43:53.920 --> 43:55.080
own equipment

43:55.080 --> 43:56.060
route everything

43:56.060 --> 43:57.340
to one IP address

43:57.340 --> 43:58.060
that you get assigned

43:58.060 --> 43:58.760
by your ISP,

43:58.840 --> 43:59.280
for example.

43:59.700 --> 44:00.020
And that way,

44:00.080 --> 44:00.400
you don't need

44:00.400 --> 44:01.320
a unique IP address

44:01.320 --> 44:02.020
for each machine

44:02.020 --> 44:03.660
internally to your

44:03.660 --> 44:04.000
network.

44:04.220 --> 44:04.960
You let your own

44:04.960 --> 44:05.680
equipment handle

44:05.680 --> 44:06.440
all that switching

44:06.440 --> 44:07.360
and you don't need

44:07.360 --> 44:08.360
to have a unique

44:08.360 --> 44:09.520
IP address for each

44:09.520 --> 44:10.000
one of them.

44:10.520 --> 44:11.000
However,

44:11.560 --> 44:12.360
wouldn't it be nice

44:12.360 --> 44:13.140
if you did

44:13.140 --> 44:14.380
and yes,

44:14.460 --> 44:15.080
so it's a temporary

44:15.080 --> 44:15.940
solution and it

44:15.940 --> 44:16.720
does get the job

44:16.720 --> 44:17.440
done for like

44:17.440 --> 44:18.320
browsing the web

44:18.320 --> 44:19.080
and things like that,

44:19.320 --> 44:20.020
but it makes it a

44:20.020 --> 44:20.460
little bit tougher

44:20.460 --> 44:21.040
if you wanted to

44:21.040 --> 44:21.780
set up a server

44:21.780 --> 44:22.800
inside of there.

44:23.000 --> 44:23.800
You'd have to do

44:23.800 --> 44:24.340
a whole lot of

44:24.340 --> 44:25.120
port redirection

44:25.120 --> 44:26.060
and lots of

44:26.060 --> 44:27.360
messy things.

44:27.500 --> 44:28.040
They work,

44:28.160 --> 44:28.560
but they're just

44:28.560 --> 44:29.420
not ideal.

44:29.800 --> 44:30.800
They're fixes.

44:30.980 --> 44:31.460
They're patches

44:31.460 --> 44:32.060
is what they are.

44:32.120 --> 44:33.000
They're just quick

44:33.000 --> 44:34.680
fixes to get a

44:34.680 --> 44:35.660
goal accomplished.

44:36.480 --> 44:37.120
So switching to

44:37.120 --> 44:38.100
IPv4,

44:38.580 --> 44:39.000
or excuse me,

44:39.040 --> 44:39.640
switching from

44:39.640 --> 44:40.560
IPv4 to

44:40.560 --> 44:42.240
IPv6 will

44:42.240 --> 44:43.460
change

44:43.460 --> 44:45.220
from a 32-bit

44:45.220 --> 44:46.440
to a 128-bit,

44:46.540 --> 44:46.960
and I'm going to

44:46.960 --> 44:47.700
let you talk more

44:47.700 --> 44:48.480
about this because

44:48.480 --> 44:50.620
I am not

44:50.620 --> 44:51.480
that well versed.

44:51.560 --> 44:52.520
I'm very limited

44:52.520 --> 44:53.100
in my knowledge

44:53.100 --> 44:54.080
of IPv6 yet

44:54.080 --> 44:55.000
because it's still

44:55.000 --> 44:55.960
in the process

44:55.960 --> 44:56.700
of rolling out,

44:56.840 --> 44:57.520
but it gives you

44:57.520 --> 44:58.040
a lot more

44:58.040 --> 44:58.440
addresses,

44:58.620 --> 44:58.960
which is the

44:58.960 --> 44:59.540
primary reason,

44:59.700 --> 45:00.320
but there's also

45:00.320 --> 45:01.120
a lot of others,

45:01.180 --> 45:01.880
and even Iron Geek

45:01.880 --> 45:03.800
referred to some

45:03.800 --> 45:04.280
of them in the

45:04.280 --> 45:04.840
email earlier

45:04.840 --> 45:05.300
that you're going

45:05.300 --> 45:05.800
to talk about

45:05.800 --> 45:06.180
as well.

45:06.180 --> 45:07.000
So I think

45:07.000 --> 45:07.680
that's good

45:07.680 --> 45:08.980
on recapping

45:08.980 --> 45:09.740
IPv4.

45:09.860 --> 45:10.200
I think we've

45:10.200 --> 45:10.680
got the main

45:10.680 --> 45:11.980
points of that

45:11.980 --> 45:12.340
down,

45:12.380 --> 45:12.720
unless there's

45:12.720 --> 45:13.060
anything you

45:13.060 --> 45:13.480
wanted to add

45:13.480 --> 45:13.820
to that,

45:14.180 --> 45:15.360
and kind of

45:15.360 --> 45:16.140
move into

45:16.140 --> 45:17.200
IPv6.

45:18.640 --> 45:18.960
We've got

45:18.960 --> 45:19.620
about...

45:19.620 --> 45:20.460
Yeah, so

45:20.460 --> 45:21.260
IPv6,

45:21.500 --> 45:22.000
I'm going to

45:22.000 --> 45:23.700
just quickly

45:23.700 --> 45:24.600
go over all

45:24.600 --> 45:25.000
the stuff

45:25.000 --> 45:25.420
that I did

45:25.420 --> 45:26.040
last time

45:26.040 --> 45:26.800
so I don't

45:26.800 --> 45:27.580
do the same

45:27.580 --> 45:28.240
show twice.

45:28.400 --> 45:28.640
Right, well

45:28.640 --> 45:29.760
let me tell you

45:29.760 --> 45:30.340
here, we've got,

45:30.460 --> 45:30.720
let's see,

45:30.780 --> 45:31.140
we're about

45:31.140 --> 45:31.820
45,

45:32.180 --> 45:33.080
approximately 45

45:33.080 --> 45:34.120
minutes into the

45:34.120 --> 45:34.900
show, so

45:34.900 --> 45:35.380
we've got a

45:35.380 --> 45:36.140
good 30

45:36.140 --> 45:37.480
minutes or so

45:37.480 --> 45:38.640
to dedicate

45:38.640 --> 45:39.300
to this.

45:40.020 --> 45:40.700
Okay, cool.

45:41.220 --> 45:42.120
In that case,

45:42.200 --> 45:42.900
actually, let me

45:42.900 --> 45:43.820
back up a second

45:43.820 --> 45:45.020
and let me rant

45:45.020 --> 45:45.720
about Nat a

45:45.720 --> 45:46.120
little bit.

45:47.400 --> 45:48.400
I don't know

45:48.400 --> 45:49.400
how much of

45:49.400 --> 45:50.400
this said last

45:50.400 --> 45:51.400
show, but

45:51.400 --> 45:52.440
you mentioned

45:52.440 --> 45:53.800
that Nat is

45:53.800 --> 45:54.420
like a temporary

45:54.420 --> 45:55.300
solution and a

45:55.300 --> 45:55.800
patch and

45:55.800 --> 45:57.020
whatever, but

45:57.020 --> 45:57.920
the problem is

45:57.920 --> 46:00.200
people who are

46:00.200 --> 46:01.080
in support of

46:01.080 --> 46:03.440
Nat for their

46:03.440 --> 46:04.060
own reasons,

46:04.120 --> 46:05.160
are kind of

46:05.160 --> 46:06.280
touting it as

46:06.280 --> 46:07.460
a new

46:07.460 --> 46:08.660
feature,

46:09.140 --> 46:10.740
not a quick

46:10.740 --> 46:11.660
fix, it's

46:11.660 --> 46:13.340
not to extend

46:13.340 --> 46:14.540
the usage of

46:14.540 --> 46:15.280
address spaces,

46:15.860 --> 46:16.500
and they're

46:16.500 --> 46:17.640
kind of giving

46:17.640 --> 46:20.640
that some

46:20.640 --> 46:21.420
benefits and

46:21.420 --> 46:22.020
saying, oh,

46:22.080 --> 46:23.060
we actually want

46:23.060 --> 46:23.820
this, and one

46:23.820 --> 46:24.380
of the things I

46:24.380 --> 46:24.840
went to about

46:24.840 --> 46:26.620
last time is

46:26.620 --> 46:29.120
better security,

46:30.000 --> 46:31.280
and to me,

46:31.380 --> 46:32.020
that makes no

46:32.020 --> 46:32.860
sense because

46:32.860 --> 46:34.320
why don't you

46:34.320 --> 46:35.280
use a firewall

46:35.280 --> 46:36.100
or something

46:36.100 --> 46:36.960
because if you

46:36.960 --> 46:38.300
have Nat and

46:38.300 --> 46:39.500
host, so

46:39.500 --> 46:40.400
basically if you

46:40.400 --> 46:40.820
have a Nat,

46:40.920 --> 46:42.380
you can't have

46:42.380 --> 46:44.200
outside connections

46:44.200 --> 46:45.340
coming into

46:45.340 --> 46:47.100
boxes behind the

46:47.100 --> 46:47.960
Nat without

46:47.960 --> 46:49.620
specific port

46:49.620 --> 46:50.260
forwarding being

46:50.260 --> 46:51.120
set up on the

46:51.120 --> 46:51.940
box that's doing

46:51.940 --> 46:53.340
the Nat, but

46:53.340 --> 46:55.340
that sort of

46:55.340 --> 46:55.960
hiding doesn't

46:55.960 --> 46:56.860
really do

46:56.860 --> 46:57.680
anything, it's

46:57.680 --> 46:58.160
one of those

46:58.160 --> 46:58.860
security through

46:58.860 --> 46:59.760
obscurity things.

46:59.840 --> 47:00.580
Right, but it

47:00.580 --> 47:01.260
doesn't hurt,

47:01.560 --> 47:02.540
it doesn't hurt,

47:02.700 --> 47:03.520
so it's not a

47:03.520 --> 47:04.260
bad thing, but

47:04.260 --> 47:05.060
certainly don't

47:05.060 --> 47:05.760
rely on that as

47:05.760 --> 47:06.500
the sole method

47:06.500 --> 47:07.220
of security.

47:08.800 --> 47:09.680
Right, but the

47:09.680 --> 47:10.940
thing I want to

47:10.940 --> 47:12.160
stress is you're

47:12.160 --> 47:13.400
breaking the

47:13.400 --> 47:13.780
internet.

47:13.780 --> 47:14.980
internet, like

47:14.980 --> 47:17.160
the internet, you

47:17.160 --> 47:18.340
are breaking the

47:18.340 --> 47:19.020
motherfucking

47:19.020 --> 47:19.480
internet.

47:20.160 --> 47:21.860
Like I was

47:21.860 --> 47:22.820
saying last time,

47:23.140 --> 47:23.760
you know, the

47:23.760 --> 47:24.620
people who design

47:24.620 --> 47:25.940
the thing and

47:25.940 --> 47:27.560
all of the way

47:27.560 --> 47:29.380
that protocols are

47:29.380 --> 47:30.440
set up and the

47:30.440 --> 47:31.340
stack is set up,

47:31.660 --> 47:32.580
you're supposed to

47:32.580 --> 47:33.260
have N10

47:33.260 --> 47:34.880
connectivity, and

47:34.880 --> 47:35.560
if you don't,

47:35.680 --> 47:36.480
you're making this

47:36.480 --> 47:37.860
like little re-re

47:37.860 --> 47:39.340
version of the

47:39.340 --> 47:40.240
internet that

47:40.240 --> 47:41.140
does, you know,

47:41.200 --> 47:41.840
where a lot of

47:41.840 --> 47:42.740
things don't work

47:42.740 --> 47:43.220
and you have to

47:43.220 --> 47:44.380
spend the manpower

47:44.380 --> 47:45.240
to fix it.

47:45.860 --> 47:46.640
Like, so at

47:46.640 --> 47:48.440
school, I actually

47:48.440 --> 47:49.520
did research for

47:49.520 --> 47:50.240
the guy who

47:50.240 --> 47:51.140
invented that, his

47:51.140 --> 47:52.000
name is Paul

47:52.000 --> 47:54.260
Francis, and, you

47:54.260 --> 47:55.920
know, in class and

47:55.920 --> 47:57.140
like wherever I see

47:57.140 --> 47:57.780
him, we just have

47:57.780 --> 47:58.640
these like long

47:58.640 --> 48:01.060
arguments over V6

48:01.060 --> 48:02.760
versus that, and

48:02.760 --> 48:03.940
you know, and

48:03.940 --> 48:05.020
obviously he's going

48:05.020 --> 48:05.740
to like it because

48:05.740 --> 48:07.040
he invented it, but

48:07.040 --> 48:07.820
a lot of people

48:07.820 --> 48:08.840
share his point of

48:08.840 --> 48:10.300
view in which, you

48:10.300 --> 48:10.740
know, we're just

48:10.740 --> 48:11.500
saying like, oh,

48:11.500 --> 48:12.780
NAT is great for

48:12.780 --> 48:14.140
reasons A, B, C,

48:14.140 --> 48:15.640
and D, but then,

48:15.720 --> 48:16.480
you know, we don't

48:16.480 --> 48:17.540
care that it doesn't

48:17.540 --> 48:18.240
work and it breaks

48:18.240 --> 48:19.240
stuff, we'll just

48:19.240 --> 48:20.400
spend our grant

48:20.400 --> 48:21.860
money, you know, and

48:21.860 --> 48:23.100
our research time to

48:23.100 --> 48:24.320
like work around

48:24.320 --> 48:25.100
those and, you

48:25.100 --> 48:25.620
know, so we can

48:25.620 --> 48:26.120
publish more

48:26.120 --> 48:27.480
papers to get

48:27.480 --> 48:28.540
around those when

48:28.540 --> 48:29.500
you can actually be

48:29.500 --> 48:30.420
doing something else

48:30.420 --> 48:30.840
interesting.

48:31.700 --> 48:33.160
Now, having said

48:33.160 --> 48:34.940
that though, nothing

48:34.940 --> 48:36.060
prevents you from

48:36.060 --> 48:37.500
using NAT in V6.

48:37.500 --> 48:39.860
Right, I was

48:39.860 --> 48:40.520
getting ready to ask

48:40.520 --> 48:40.640
that.

48:40.720 --> 48:41.680
You can still use

48:41.680 --> 48:41.960
NAT.

48:41.960 --> 48:42.500
Yeah, I was getting

48:42.500 --> 48:43.180
ready to ask that

48:43.180 --> 48:43.780
very question.

48:43.880 --> 48:45.320
First of all, NAT is

48:45.320 --> 48:46.220
kind of cool in what

48:46.220 --> 48:46.680
it does.

48:46.800 --> 48:47.460
Don't get me wrong, it

48:47.460 --> 48:48.660
is a cool solution to

48:48.660 --> 48:50.320
the problem, but it's

48:50.320 --> 48:51.420
certainly no reason to

48:51.420 --> 48:52.980
say, let's just stick

48:52.980 --> 48:54.060
with that and not move

48:54.060 --> 48:54.900
to IPv6.

48:54.980 --> 48:55.680
That's ridiculous.

48:56.560 --> 48:57.240
That's ridiculous.

48:57.440 --> 48:58.120
NAT is a cool

48:58.120 --> 48:59.300
solution, I do like it,

48:59.360 --> 48:59.920
but it does have

48:59.920 --> 49:01.920
limitations, and that's

49:01.920 --> 49:03.120
assuming, first of all,

49:03.360 --> 49:04.140
A, that's putting the

49:04.140 --> 49:06.140
burden of hardware on the

49:06.140 --> 49:07.380
consumer to have to

49:07.380 --> 49:08.360
buy and maintain and

49:08.360 --> 49:08.940
deal with their own

49:08.940 --> 49:09.500
stuff, and not

49:09.500 --> 49:10.540
everybody can do that,

49:10.600 --> 49:11.640
has the ability to set

49:11.640 --> 49:12.440
that up in their house

49:12.440 --> 49:13.380
and do their own NAT,

49:13.460 --> 49:14.200
et cetera, et cetera.

49:14.720 --> 49:15.840
I mean, I do it, and

49:15.840 --> 49:16.760
most, a lot of our

49:16.760 --> 49:17.620
listeners, I'm sure, do

49:17.620 --> 49:18.460
it, but you don't

49:18.460 --> 49:19.220
expect your grandmother

49:19.220 --> 49:21.140
to do that, and, you

49:21.140 --> 49:22.680
know, as we change and

49:22.680 --> 49:23.680
evolve and have these

49:23.680 --> 49:24.860
new products coming up,

49:25.320 --> 49:27.440
more things want or

49:27.440 --> 49:28.480
need, or I should say

49:28.480 --> 49:30.100
will excel in having

49:30.100 --> 49:31.700
their own dedicated IP

49:31.700 --> 49:33.100
address that you don't

49:33.100 --> 49:33.880
have to worry about

49:33.880 --> 49:35.120
configuring and setting up

49:35.120 --> 49:35.920
an internal network

49:35.920 --> 49:37.020
and whatnot, and I

49:37.020 --> 49:38.400
mean, just cell phones

49:38.400 --> 49:39.080
and other things are

49:39.080 --> 49:39.900
just touching the

49:39.900 --> 49:40.300
surface.

49:41.020 --> 49:41.660
I mean, there's so

49:41.660 --> 49:42.880
many things that if we

49:42.880 --> 49:43.980
have unique addresses,

49:44.500 --> 49:45.580
and we talked last week

49:45.580 --> 49:46.520
about some of the math

49:46.520 --> 49:48.300
of how many 50 octillion

49:48.300 --> 49:49.380
addresses or whatever we

49:49.380 --> 49:50.440
came to the conclusion,

49:51.200 --> 49:53.180
we can assign address to

49:53.180 --> 49:54.040
everything, and you don't

49:54.040 --> 49:55.040
have to worry about all

49:55.040 --> 49:55.900
the maintenance and the

49:55.900 --> 49:57.340
hardware and the manpower,

49:57.460 --> 49:58.580
the hours that go into

49:58.580 --> 50:00.800
it, or woman power, as if

50:00.800 --> 50:01.340
there's any women

50:01.340 --> 50:02.080
listening to the show,

50:02.120 --> 50:03.180
but we won't rehash that

50:03.180 --> 50:04.220
topic anymore, what a

50:04.220 --> 50:05.920
sausage party this show

50:05.920 --> 50:06.220
is.

50:07.500 --> 50:09.240
So, you know, I

50:09.240 --> 50:10.380
understand and support

50:10.380 --> 50:12.980
Nat for a solution to

50:12.980 --> 50:14.180
the problem at hand, but

50:14.180 --> 50:14.880
there's no way that I

50:14.880 --> 50:15.760
could ever defend that

50:15.760 --> 50:17.120
to say, let's not move to

50:17.120 --> 50:18.860
IPv6 because we've got

50:18.860 --> 50:19.080
Nat.

50:19.180 --> 50:19.960
That, to me, is just

50:19.960 --> 50:21.480
ludicrous.

50:23.180 --> 50:25.840
Yeah, I mean, well, see,

50:25.940 --> 50:27.020
the thing is, not

50:27.020 --> 50:28.940
everyone is saying, like,

50:29.000 --> 50:30.280
well, okay, we understand

50:30.280 --> 50:31.200
there are limitations to

50:31.200 --> 50:33.100
V4, but V6 sucks a lot

50:33.100 --> 50:35.700
too, so we don't want to

50:35.700 --> 50:36.320
move to it.

50:36.840 --> 50:38.320
But, you know, that's

50:38.320 --> 50:39.400
another point of view, and

50:39.400 --> 50:40.400
it's like, you might be

50:40.400 --> 50:43.520
right, but, you know, I

50:43.520 --> 50:44.940
think that it's good

50:44.940 --> 50:46.460
enough, and it'll, like,

50:46.480 --> 50:47.680
kind of be, like, the

50:47.680 --> 50:50.840
better of two evils, sort

50:50.840 --> 50:51.800
of speak, you know?

50:52.460 --> 50:54.680
But, anyway, let's move

50:54.680 --> 50:56.560
on to more technical

50:56.560 --> 50:57.980
stuff, instead of me just

50:57.980 --> 50:58.920
ranting about random

50:58.920 --> 50:59.280
shit.

50:59.800 --> 51:00.520
Well, actually, there was

51:00.520 --> 51:01.640
one, you kind of brought

51:01.640 --> 51:02.420
this question up, and I

51:02.420 --> 51:03.420
don't know if we answered

51:03.420 --> 51:04.760
it, or if you finished on

51:04.760 --> 51:06.160
it, but you were saying

51:06.160 --> 51:07.660
that you can still use

51:07.660 --> 51:09.100
Nat in IPv6, correct?

51:09.880 --> 51:11.000
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean,

51:11.020 --> 51:11.380
definitely.

51:11.660 --> 51:13.980
I mean, all Nat is is just

51:13.980 --> 51:15.240
a multi-spark thing and

51:15.240 --> 51:17.240
demark thing, where you

51:17.240 --> 51:18.320
keep track, you know, you

51:18.320 --> 51:20.240
have hosts all sending,

51:20.240 --> 51:21.960
you know, you have a

51:21.960 --> 51:22.840
separate network, and

51:22.840 --> 51:24.860
basically multiplex that

51:24.860 --> 51:27.600
network's traffic from one

51:27.600 --> 51:28.980
box, and you just, like,

51:29.020 --> 51:31.400
use the ports as the way

51:31.400 --> 51:33.520
to identify, you know, to

51:33.520 --> 51:36.880
identify which box that's

51:36.880 --> 51:38.980
NATed behind you is using

51:38.980 --> 51:39.620
which connection.

51:39.860 --> 51:42.700
So, I mean, all Nat does is

51:42.700 --> 51:44.640
multiplex your traffic, and

51:44.640 --> 51:45.860
you're using ports to

51:45.860 --> 51:48.520
identify which box is

51:48.520 --> 51:50.620
behind you in the internal

51:50.620 --> 51:52.120
traffic, and the internal

51:52.120 --> 51:54.120
network, are, you know,

51:54.220 --> 51:56.140
are matched with what

51:56.140 --> 51:57.640
connections are going out.

51:58.760 --> 52:00.040
I mean, it has nothing to

52:00.040 --> 52:01.360
do with V4 and V6.

52:01.560 --> 52:02.780
You can use it in the new

52:02.780 --> 52:04.120
V6, and it'll work the same

52:04.120 --> 52:04.400
way.

52:04.520 --> 52:05.440
So, if you want to use Nat

52:05.440 --> 52:06.580
for security, I mean, go

52:06.580 --> 52:07.100
right ahead.

52:07.440 --> 52:09.160
But if your grandmother tries

52:09.160 --> 52:11.300
to send you, you know, a

52:11.300 --> 52:13.040
picture of her cat's birthday

52:13.040 --> 52:14.600
party or whatever, then you

52:14.600 --> 52:15.760
might not be able to get it

52:15.760 --> 52:17.340
because you're behind a

52:17.340 --> 52:17.520
NAT.

52:18.240 --> 52:19.860
I love pictures of cat

52:19.860 --> 52:20.880
birthday parties, by the

52:20.880 --> 52:21.060
way.

52:21.280 --> 52:21.940
I love them.

52:23.560 --> 52:24.880
Cat birthday parties?

52:25.140 --> 52:25.640
Yeah, good.

52:26.200 --> 52:27.460
That's a good point.

52:27.580 --> 52:29.380
But also, at the same time,

52:30.080 --> 52:30.940
because you have so many

52:30.940 --> 52:31.740
addresses, you really don't

52:31.740 --> 52:32.740
need NAT, ironically.

52:32.900 --> 52:33.840
Sure, if you wanted, you

52:33.840 --> 52:34.940
could probably still do it,

52:35.000 --> 52:36.180
but you really wouldn't

52:36.180 --> 52:36.600
need it.

52:36.880 --> 52:38.460
So, let's focus on some of

52:38.460 --> 52:42.860
the specific IPv6 features,

52:42.960 --> 52:43.760
I guess, if you will.

52:43.800 --> 52:44.780
Is that probably the next

52:44.780 --> 52:45.620
direction we want to take?

52:45.660 --> 52:46.440
We've probably got, like,

52:46.480 --> 52:47.500
what, 20-some minutes

52:47.500 --> 52:47.800
left?

52:48.500 --> 52:49.900
Yeah, let's go for it.

52:50.560 --> 52:52.380
So, let's now take the

52:52.380 --> 52:53.960
chance to touch back on

52:53.960 --> 52:55.400
what Iron Keep is saying.

52:55.900 --> 52:57.420
He was mentioning that

52:57.420 --> 53:00.760
IPsec is mandatory in

53:00.760 --> 53:01.960
IPv6 now.

53:02.040 --> 53:02.900
Well, what is IPsec?

53:02.900 --> 53:03.540
Back up.

53:03.580 --> 53:04.500
What is IPsec?

53:06.000 --> 53:07.900
IPsec is an encryption

53:07.900 --> 53:09.840
layer for layer 3.

53:10.420 --> 53:12.360
So, if you listen to the

53:12.360 --> 53:13.760
tunneling episode that we

53:13.760 --> 53:15.340
did, I mentioned that

53:15.340 --> 53:16.920
IPsec was one of the ways

53:16.920 --> 53:19.000
you can use to, you know,

53:19.060 --> 53:19.860
to do VPN.

53:20.380 --> 53:20.680
Right.

53:21.020 --> 53:21.760
And, right.

53:22.100 --> 53:23.800
So, IPsec is just an

53:23.800 --> 53:26.620
encryption protocol for layer

53:26.620 --> 53:27.040
3.

53:27.540 --> 53:30.720
So, now, you know, so it's

53:30.720 --> 53:32.100
not, okay, so I think

53:32.100 --> 53:33.100
everyone's familiar with

53:33.100 --> 53:33.600
SSL.

53:34.600 --> 53:36.980
SSL is not a layer 3.

53:36.980 --> 53:38.940
IPsec, and if you're, you

53:38.940 --> 53:41.040
know, looking at the SSL

53:41.040 --> 53:42.520
traffic, you can tell where

53:42.520 --> 53:43.720
it's coming to and from,

53:43.820 --> 53:44.680
like the source and

53:44.680 --> 53:45.380
destination IP.

53:45.780 --> 53:46.160
Right.

53:46.240 --> 53:48.680
But, with IPsec, it's kind

53:48.680 --> 53:51.000
of one layer lower, so you

53:51.000 --> 53:52.560
actually, you know, don't

53:52.560 --> 53:55.000
know where traffic's going to

53:55.000 --> 53:55.480
and from.

53:56.480 --> 53:59.260
And, so the point is that

53:59.260 --> 54:03.020
IPsec is mandatory when you

54:03.020 --> 54:05.040
implement the Vsec stack on,

54:05.040 --> 54:06.680
like, a host or a router.

54:07.520 --> 54:07.820
Right.

54:08.000 --> 54:10.120
You don't have to use it, but

54:10.120 --> 54:12.620
it's mandatory in the host

54:12.620 --> 54:14.740
stack, according to the RFC.

54:16.120 --> 54:16.560
Okay.

54:16.560 --> 54:18.060
And, you know, you're

54:18.060 --> 54:20.440
saying if you use, if you

54:20.440 --> 54:22.820
use IPsec or if you use SSL,

54:23.040 --> 54:24.420
then you're going to have, you

54:24.420 --> 54:25.160
know, an overhead.

54:25.580 --> 54:27.100
But, since that service is

54:27.100 --> 54:28.180
always there, it's just going

54:28.180 --> 54:30.260
to make things easier for

54:30.260 --> 54:31.780
people to, you know, to

54:31.780 --> 54:33.660
implement IPsec in their

54:33.660 --> 54:34.920
protocols and in their

54:34.920 --> 54:35.480
applications.

54:36.760 --> 54:37.400
All right.

54:38.680 --> 54:39.120
Right.

54:39.620 --> 54:41.240
So, I mean, you know, so

54:41.240 --> 54:42.460
that's what people mean when

54:42.460 --> 54:44.060
they say, like, oh, you

54:44.060 --> 54:45.620
know, V6 is more secure

54:45.620 --> 54:46.600
because it has IPsec.

54:46.900 --> 54:47.580
And then, you know,

54:47.780 --> 54:48.800
immediately, some other

54:48.800 --> 54:49.580
people are like, wait a

54:49.580 --> 54:50.860
minute, well, you can do

54:50.860 --> 54:52.400
IPsec in V4, so what do you

54:52.400 --> 54:52.600
mean?

54:52.840 --> 54:53.920
And all they mean is just

54:53.920 --> 54:56.120
that the RFC says you must

54:56.120 --> 54:56.940
implement this.

54:57.260 --> 54:59.300
So, no matter which V6 stack

54:59.300 --> 55:01.020
you're using, IPsec will be

55:01.020 --> 55:01.740
there and you don't have to

55:01.740 --> 55:02.480
install anything else.

55:02.520 --> 55:02.720
Right.

55:02.800 --> 55:04.780
So, it's part of the

55:04.780 --> 55:06.280
standard.

55:07.060 --> 55:07.420
Right.

55:07.500 --> 55:08.180
And it's required.

55:08.340 --> 55:08.520
Okay.

55:09.080 --> 55:10.300
So, that's all fine and

55:10.300 --> 55:10.460
dandy.

55:10.660 --> 55:11.760
But, and actually, I kind of

55:11.760 --> 55:13.680
have a, I had a question

55:13.680 --> 55:14.400
pop into my head.

55:14.440 --> 55:14.980
I'm going to go ahead and

55:14.980 --> 55:15.280
ask it.

55:15.320 --> 55:16.120
Hopefully, it doesn't take

55:16.120 --> 55:16.520
too long.

55:17.720 --> 55:20.700
With IPsec, does that make

55:20.700 --> 55:22.100
it more difficult to

55:22.100 --> 55:25.080
intercept, well, I'm not

55:25.080 --> 55:25.840
even sure how to phrase

55:25.840 --> 55:25.960
it.

55:26.140 --> 55:27.220
We all know that the

55:27.220 --> 55:28.820
government, we know what

55:28.820 --> 55:30.600
Tor does and how it

55:30.600 --> 55:31.600
protects the packets

55:31.600 --> 55:32.980
destination, source to

55:32.980 --> 55:34.300
destination by handing them

55:34.300 --> 55:35.940
off so many times, it makes

55:35.940 --> 55:37.000
it difficult to trace

55:37.000 --> 55:37.720
something back.

55:38.060 --> 55:40.020
Is IPsec going to function

55:40.020 --> 55:40.520
similarly?

55:40.700 --> 55:42.500
Not as far as using onion

55:42.500 --> 55:44.180
routing per se, but will

55:44.180 --> 55:45.220
it have a kind of a similar

55:45.220 --> 55:47.720
effect in that someone

55:47.720 --> 55:49.300
anywhere in the middle

55:49.300 --> 55:51.020
would be able to pick that

55:51.020 --> 55:51.140
up?

55:51.200 --> 55:52.300
They wouldn't know who the

55:52.300 --> 55:54.420
originating requester was or

55:54.420 --> 55:55.420
the site that they're

55:55.420 --> 55:58.060
requesting is or am I way

55:58.060 --> 55:58.760
off base here?

55:59.840 --> 56:01.360
Well, I mean, yes and no.

56:01.900 --> 56:04.420
Let's say I make an IPsec

56:04.420 --> 56:08.160
connection from point A to

56:08.160 --> 56:10.880
point B. You can figure out

56:10.880 --> 56:13.580
relatively easily, you can

56:13.580 --> 56:17.780
figure out who's talking, but

56:17.780 --> 56:20.480
you don't exactly, it depends

56:20.480 --> 56:21.540
on my own work and I really

56:21.540 --> 56:23.100
don't want to get too much

56:23.100 --> 56:24.220
into it because it's not a

56:24.220 --> 56:26.140
show of IPsec, but the

56:26.140 --> 56:27.640
important thing is that if

56:27.640 --> 56:30.580
you use IPsec, people can't

56:30.580 --> 56:32.280
do man-in-the-middle attacks

56:32.280 --> 56:34.480
and replay attacks because

56:34.480 --> 56:36.340
layer 3 is encrypted.

56:37.160 --> 56:38.120
Well, I mean, that's not the

56:38.120 --> 56:39.280
only reason, but, you know,

56:39.560 --> 56:40.800
layer 3 and up are encrypted

56:40.800 --> 56:43.100
so people are not going to be

56:43.100 --> 56:45.520
able to replay the packets and

56:45.520 --> 56:47.800
they're not going to be able to

56:47.800 --> 56:48.700
do a man-in-the-middle.

56:48.700 --> 56:50.120
So, it's really to prevent

56:50.120 --> 56:52.220
forgery more than anything.

56:53.220 --> 56:53.580
Right.

56:53.720 --> 56:53.980
Okay.

56:54.200 --> 56:55.140
So, you're not going to be

56:55.140 --> 56:55.540
anonymous.

56:55.940 --> 56:56.180
Right.

56:56.200 --> 56:57.340
So, it's not going to be like

56:57.340 --> 57:00.100
Tor where supposedly you're

57:00.100 --> 57:00.480
anonymous.

57:00.860 --> 57:01.180
Right.

57:01.880 --> 57:02.280
Gotcha.

57:02.520 --> 57:02.740
Okay.

57:03.740 --> 57:04.000
All right.

57:04.060 --> 57:05.200
What else is it bringing?

57:06.760 --> 57:07.200
Sorry?

57:07.400 --> 57:08.920
What else is IPv6 bringing?

57:09.540 --> 57:09.920
Right.

57:10.120 --> 57:12.400
So, one of the other big things

57:12.400 --> 57:14.480
is, you know, they want it to be

57:14.480 --> 57:14.700
used.

57:14.700 --> 57:17.260
So, they have this new concept

57:17.260 --> 57:18.960
called stateless auto

57:18.960 --> 57:19.700
configuration.

57:20.420 --> 57:23.000
Now, in V4, if you want to,

57:23.180 --> 57:25.500
so the method that you get in IP

57:25.500 --> 57:27.000
is you can configure statically

57:27.000 --> 57:29.640
or you can use DHCP, and I think

57:29.640 --> 57:30.720
most of our listeners are

57:30.720 --> 57:31.580
familiar with that.

57:31.760 --> 57:31.980
Right.

57:32.040 --> 57:34.820
And DHCP, just to quickly go

57:34.820 --> 57:37.120
over, is you send out a

57:37.120 --> 57:39.380
broadcast request and there's a

57:39.380 --> 57:42.540
router or DHCP server on your

57:42.540 --> 57:44.480
LAN segment that is

57:44.480 --> 57:46.360
responsible for giving you IP.

57:47.400 --> 57:50.600
And you send out a request and

57:50.600 --> 57:51.900
then you get an IP back.

57:52.040 --> 57:52.920
And, you know, there are also

57:52.920 --> 57:53.660
some other fields.

57:54.180 --> 57:55.920
But that's kind of like the

57:55.920 --> 57:57.020
default setup right now.

57:57.720 --> 57:59.680
Now, in V6, you don't need to

57:59.680 --> 58:01.380
have a server sitting there

58:01.380 --> 58:03.060
listening to requests and then

58:03.060 --> 58:04.280
handing out IPs.

58:04.640 --> 58:07.300
They have, what you do is a host

58:07.300 --> 58:09.300
is going to send a link local

58:09.300 --> 58:11.440
multicast request for

58:11.440 --> 58:13.160
configuration information.

58:13.160 --> 58:15.460
And now, if the router, like the

58:15.460 --> 58:17.400
first hop router supports it, and

58:17.400 --> 58:19.160
it should because it's in the RFC,

58:19.600 --> 58:21.280
it's going to reply with a router

58:21.280 --> 58:23.440
advertisement, you know, that has

58:23.440 --> 58:24.920
the network layer configuration for

58:24.920 --> 58:25.360
the host.

58:26.240 --> 58:27.720
Now, you know, so the good thing,

58:27.940 --> 58:29.120
I mean, it's pretty obvious that

58:29.120 --> 58:31.160
you don't have to run a separate

58:31.160 --> 58:33.300
application level server to do this.

58:33.300 --> 58:35.920
And your router will automatically

58:35.920 --> 58:36.540
do this.

58:37.000 --> 58:39.920
So if, you know, your Joe Blow, like,

58:40.260 --> 58:42.320
V6 Linksys router or whatever will

58:42.320 --> 58:44.740
have this supported, then it doesn't

58:44.740 --> 58:46.280
have to implement DHCP.

58:47.020 --> 58:51.140
Now, having said that, DHCP V6

58:51.140 --> 58:52.600
also exists.

58:52.600 --> 58:56.100
And, you know, some people might be

58:56.100 --> 58:57.600
like, well, why do you have DHCP?

58:58.560 --> 59:00.480
You'll have, you know, that link local

59:00.480 --> 59:03.080
multicast thing that you can do to get

59:03.080 --> 59:03.400
an IP.

59:04.260 --> 59:07.400
Now, DHCP has more features.

59:07.900 --> 59:11.020
You know, you don't just get an IP.

59:11.340 --> 59:13.240
You can specify, like, you know,

59:13.280 --> 59:14.940
permission stuff and, like, lease

59:14.940 --> 59:16.220
times and all this junk.

59:17.160 --> 59:19.960
But, you know, it just depends on

59:19.960 --> 59:20.520
what you want.

59:20.760 --> 59:22.580
But basically, you don't have to use

59:22.580 --> 59:23.500
it if you don't want to.

59:23.760 --> 59:25.000
I was going to say, I mean, does,

59:25.480 --> 59:27.420
so, this is kind of like Nat.

59:27.500 --> 59:29.960
It can still exist, but is there

59:29.960 --> 59:31.020
really a need for it?

59:32.340 --> 59:33.840
Well, I mean, to be honest, I don't

59:33.840 --> 59:34.560
really know.

59:35.080 --> 59:36.980
You know, we would probably be better

59:36.980 --> 59:39.420
off to ask someone who works in

59:39.420 --> 59:41.500
IP, who has to, like, deal with this

59:41.500 --> 59:42.960
stuff on a day-to-day basis.

59:43.440 --> 59:45.020
So, you know, he or she can tell us,

59:45.020 --> 59:46.900
like, you know, is there any

59:46.900 --> 59:49.340
advantages of using DHCP now that

59:49.340 --> 59:52.220
you have auto-configuration things

59:52.220 --> 59:52.820
in place?

59:53.100 --> 59:53.400
Right.

59:53.560 --> 59:55.480
I'm not sure I see it there, but,

59:55.560 --> 59:57.120
and I don't know that, the thing

59:57.120 --> 59:58.960
is, well, I don't want to interrupt

59:58.960 --> 59:59.080
you.

59:59.100 --> 01:00:00.440
I've got a lot of questions I can

01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:01.600
throw at you, so I'll let you keep

01:00:01.600 --> 01:00:03.240
going, and you give me a sign when

01:00:03.240 --> 01:00:04.400
you're done, and I'll throw a bunch,

01:00:04.580 --> 01:00:06.160
I got a bunch of questions for you.

01:00:07.040 --> 01:00:07.560
Okay, okay.

01:00:07.700 --> 01:00:08.280
Yeah, no problem.

01:00:08.920 --> 01:00:11.660
So, just more things, more features

01:00:11.660 --> 01:00:15.340
for IPv6 is, you get jumbo frames,

01:00:15.780 --> 01:00:18.080
and that means that your payload can be

01:00:18.080 --> 01:00:20.240
larger than 64 kilobytes.

01:00:21.660 --> 01:00:23.940
I mean, that's a good thing, just because

01:00:23.940 --> 01:00:27.900
you get to send more traffic per packet,

01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:31.660
so that means that over time, your header

01:00:31.660 --> 01:00:33.120
overhead will be less.

01:00:33.700 --> 01:00:36.720
Now, this actually depends on each hop.

01:00:36.720 --> 01:00:40.220
Now, if I send, you know, it's just like

01:00:40.220 --> 01:00:41.620
the MTU right now.

01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:45.020
If I send a packet from A to B, the MTU is

01:00:45.020 --> 01:00:50.000
going to be that of the smallest MTU per

01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:51.060
link on the way.

01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:54.180
So, if you have jumbo frames, you need

01:00:54.180 --> 01:00:57.640
every single hop from A to B to support

01:00:57.640 --> 01:01:00.100
that, else, you know, your packet can only

01:01:00.100 --> 01:01:02.920
be as big as the smallest link without,

01:01:03.020 --> 01:01:03.900
you know, chopping it up.

01:01:03.900 --> 01:01:08.460
So, hopefully, the ISP and stuff will

01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:10.540
support this, so people can, you know,

01:01:10.600 --> 01:01:12.320
get bigger pipes to their home and also

01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:14.980
benefit from it by having bigger packets.

01:01:15.740 --> 01:01:17.960
Well, now, but if we step back, you know,

01:01:18.700 --> 01:01:22.640
and if you apply networking theory,

01:01:23.120 --> 01:01:25.960
the larger the packet size, theoretically,

01:01:26.160 --> 01:01:29.380
you increase the chance of having bad or

01:01:29.380 --> 01:01:31.160
corrupted data in that packet, because

01:01:31.160 --> 01:01:33.000
you've got more data, so you have a

01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:34.260
higher chance of it being corrupted.

01:01:35.200 --> 01:01:37.300
Is that a negligible amount, then, that

01:01:37.300 --> 01:01:38.860
probably won't make, I mean, it's still

01:01:38.860 --> 01:01:40.600
so unlikely that it's not an issue?

01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:44.900
Well, no, I mean, you have a CRC, right?

01:01:45.160 --> 01:01:45.560
Right.

01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:48.940
So, if you get, you know, so if there's

01:01:48.940 --> 01:01:50.460
something wrong with your packet, you can

01:01:50.460 --> 01:01:51.120
correct it.

01:01:51.780 --> 01:01:52.980
You can correct it anyway.

01:01:52.980 --> 01:01:56.740
And also, so from the map point of view,

01:01:57.220 --> 01:02:00.320
I think your rate of, like, having a bad

01:02:00.320 --> 01:02:01.660
packet and having to resend.

01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:03.980
So, what you're saying is, if the packet's

01:02:03.980 --> 01:02:06.960
bigger, and one of those packets, you know,

01:02:07.040 --> 01:02:09.160
have an error in it, and I have to resend,

01:02:09.460 --> 01:02:11.200
then, you know, that's just, like, waste.

01:02:11.640 --> 01:02:13.660
But the thing is, I think if you take the

01:02:13.660 --> 01:02:16.040
percentage of bad packets that have to be

01:02:16.040 --> 01:02:19.740
retransmitted, compared to the overhead of the

01:02:19.740 --> 01:02:22.620
headers that you save, by making the packets

01:02:22.620 --> 01:02:24.420
bigger, I think you're going to come out on top.

01:02:24.760 --> 01:02:26.060
That's a good point, too, yeah.

01:02:26.120 --> 01:02:28.660
So, even if it, I would suspect that it's just

01:02:28.660 --> 01:02:31.420
a negligible amount anyway, but, yeah, that's

01:02:31.420 --> 01:02:32.020
a definite point.

01:02:32.020 --> 01:02:34.900
The savings that you would get from the

01:02:34.900 --> 01:02:39.200
overhead of the headers would more than make

01:02:39.200 --> 01:02:40.960
up for it, even if there is a small increase.

01:02:41.080 --> 01:02:42.260
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:44.260
All right.

01:02:44.600 --> 01:02:47.480
So, let me keep going, then.

01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:52.740
Okay, so, if you actually look at, like, a

01:02:52.740 --> 01:02:56.300
diagram of the header, you'll see that, you'll

01:02:56.300 --> 01:03:00.820
notice that the V6 header has less individual

01:03:00.820 --> 01:03:02.540
feel than the V4 header.

01:03:03.260 --> 01:03:05.860
So, what they kind of did was they tried to

01:03:05.860 --> 01:03:07.020
clean house a little bit.

01:03:07.860 --> 01:03:11.020
V4, there are a bunch of stuff that people don't

01:03:11.020 --> 01:03:13.360
really use, and it's just there for either

01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:17.200
historical purposes or, you know, they put in there

01:03:17.200 --> 01:03:19.860
so someone can have a covert channel or whatever.

01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:25.340
But in V6, they kind of look to see, okay, now that

01:03:25.340 --> 01:03:27.840
we've been using the Internet for, like, 20-something

01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:32.220
years, you know, we can see what fields people actually

01:03:32.220 --> 01:03:32.960
use in the header.

01:03:34.340 --> 01:03:37.840
So, for example, one of these things is the type of

01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:41.680
service bits, and the type of service bit, it's supposed

01:03:41.680 --> 01:03:42.560
to be for QoS.

01:03:43.420 --> 01:03:48.140
And, but realistically, in the wild, no, not too many

01:03:48.140 --> 01:03:49.840
routers pay attention to it.

01:03:49.940 --> 01:03:51.860
So, it's kind of a useless field.

01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:55.700
And, you know, it ends up being, like, other protocols kind

01:03:55.700 --> 01:04:00.100
of hack it and use those fields because it knows no one

01:04:00.100 --> 01:04:01.800
will kind of view it.

01:04:01.940 --> 01:04:04.040
So, they'll use it for their own purposes and all this

01:04:04.040 --> 01:04:04.360
stuff.

01:04:04.360 --> 01:04:07.620
So, in V6, they kind of, you know, fixed that a little

01:04:07.620 --> 01:04:07.920
bit.

01:04:08.600 --> 01:04:14.100
And if, you know, so right now, actually, I'll go into the

01:04:14.100 --> 01:04:16.260
package header format a little bit.

01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:17.280
Okay.

01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:25.180
Now, you have the version, which is, you know, in V4,

01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:26.880
it's the version field.

01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:30.780
And in IPv6, you have the same thing as IP version.

01:04:30.780 --> 01:04:36.300
And then, you have the traffic class, which is 8-bits.

01:04:36.900 --> 01:04:40.400
And that used to be the packet priority in V4.

01:04:41.160 --> 01:04:43.100
So, that's pretty much the same.

01:04:43.740 --> 01:04:48.340
Now, one of the new things is the QoS bits that you have, the

01:04:48.340 --> 01:04:49.840
types of service that I mentioned.

01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:53.460
They're now kind of called flow labels.

01:04:53.820 --> 01:04:54.900
And it's 20-bits.

01:04:55.020 --> 01:04:55.360
I'm sorry.

01:04:55.480 --> 01:04:56.720
You broke up right there.

01:04:56.760 --> 01:04:58.200
What was that again that you were talking about the

01:04:58.200 --> 01:04:59.820
QoS, which is the quality of service?

01:05:00.700 --> 01:05:00.940
Right.

01:05:01.120 --> 01:05:07.400
So, in V4, you have the TOS bits, the types of service bits that

01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:08.660
I was saying no one uses, right?

01:05:08.720 --> 01:05:09.200
Ah, okay.

01:05:09.200 --> 01:05:14.400
Now, in V6, you have a flow label, which is 20-bits.

01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:18.620
Now, the flow label is designed to be heavily used.

01:05:19.260 --> 01:05:23.580
So, you know, the applications and the network layer is going to

01:05:23.580 --> 01:05:28.540
actively use the flow label to identify different types of flows.

01:05:28.660 --> 01:05:33.280
Now, when I say flow, I mean a whole kind of session of traffic.

01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:38.140
So, if you have, like, an AIM session going on, like, that would be a flow.

01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:40.740
If you have an IRC session going on, that would be a flow.

01:05:41.080 --> 01:05:41.380
Okay.

01:05:41.560 --> 01:05:46.620
So, it can separate out each kind of, like, application for you.

01:05:46.860 --> 01:05:47.340
Got you.

01:05:47.980 --> 01:05:48.460
Right.

01:05:48.460 --> 01:05:52.660
Now, the payload length is 16-bits.

01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:57.120
Now, that is 64K in standard mode.

01:05:57.460 --> 01:06:03.880
Or, if you have jumbo packets support, then it will be bigger than that.

01:06:04.340 --> 01:06:08.920
Now, if you're using jumbo mode, then the payload length is going to have

01:06:08.920 --> 01:06:13.060
something that basically refers you to the IP header options.

01:06:13.520 --> 01:06:15.360
So, you can have, like, a bigger number in there.

01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:19.360
And then you also have some of the same things, like the hop limit,

01:06:19.540 --> 01:06:24.640
which is 8-bits, and it does the same thing as the TTL field, and that's in V4.

01:06:24.900 --> 01:06:28.520
And you have the 128-bit source address and destination address.

01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:34.580
Now, one of the things that are different in a bad way, in my opinion,

01:06:34.700 --> 01:06:38.200
is that you have a next header kind of pointer.

01:06:38.860 --> 01:06:43.040
So, now, in V4, you have the header, and, like, that's it.

01:06:43.400 --> 01:06:44.680
And that's the structure.

01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:51.700
And if you look at the network code, if that structure is in place, and it's, like,

01:06:51.740 --> 01:06:57.780
you know, a C struct, and when you get a packet in, you just kind of cast that packet header

01:06:57.780 --> 01:07:00.040
onto the struct, and everything is good.

01:07:00.380 --> 01:07:06.840
But in V6, what you do is you have an 8-bit next header field, and that points

01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:08.680
to the transport layer protocol.

01:07:08.680 --> 01:07:13.940
And the whole thing, the whole header in V6 works like this.

01:07:14.220 --> 01:07:17.020
You have a header, and at the end, you have the next header pointer,

01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:21.100
which tells you where the next header is.

01:07:21.600 --> 01:07:27.480
And if you do this in code, what ends up happening is your implementation is coming much slower

01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:29.020
because you have to deal with pointers,

01:07:29.020 --> 01:07:34.540
and you can't just, like, cast a struct onto the data that you get and start using it.

01:07:36.160 --> 01:07:36.600
Wow.

01:07:36.740 --> 01:07:40.940
That's, um, I'm not sure if that's translating over to radio very well,

01:07:41.080 --> 01:07:43.220
but, uh, that's kind of deep.

01:07:43.220 --> 01:07:51.740
Well, okay, so, I mean, basically, think of, think of the V6 header as now being a length list.

01:07:52.360 --> 01:07:56.320
Before, it was an array of a specific length, right?

01:07:56.560 --> 01:07:56.940
Mm-hmm.

01:07:57.460 --> 01:08:01.840
But now, so, if you have an array of, like, a specific length, like N,

01:08:02.300 --> 01:08:06.680
you know where everything's supposed to be, and if you say, want this field,

01:08:07.160 --> 01:08:11.540
then you can just go to that offset and access it, right?

01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:12.200
Easy.

01:08:12.200 --> 01:08:13.040
Mm-hmm.

01:08:13.040 --> 01:08:18.080
But now, the V6 packet header is a linked list.

01:08:18.560 --> 01:08:24.200
So, if you want a specific field, you can't just go to some offset

01:08:24.200 --> 01:08:28.520
because, basically, the header can be a variable length.

01:08:29.060 --> 01:08:33.240
So, you have to traverse the header and follow the pointers

01:08:33.240 --> 01:08:38.000
and then get to the correct section and then access the field.

01:08:38.720 --> 01:08:42.000
Yeah, I'm sure our listeners that have some experience,

01:08:42.200 --> 01:08:46.680
and OOP and object-oriented programming are probably familiar with linked lists

01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:49.820
and some of these terms, but, um, I don't know.

01:08:49.820 --> 01:08:50.920
But you're a fucking moron?

01:08:51.260 --> 01:08:51.620
Huh?

01:08:52.200 --> 01:08:53.500
But you're a fucking moron?

01:08:53.500 --> 01:08:57.880
Yeah, I'm a fucking moron, of course, so, um, hmm.

01:08:58.260 --> 01:08:58.840
Well, I don't know.

01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:02.780
Maybe we should, um, kind of wind this down a little bit.

01:09:03.060 --> 01:09:04.680
Um, that's, wow.

01:09:04.780 --> 01:09:05.840
I mean, there's so much.

01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:09.840
I, I, I, I can't believe, again, that, I mean, I almost feel like there's,

01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:12.820
I, I, how much more, do you have much more you wanted to talk about?

01:09:12.880 --> 01:09:16.520
I mean, I could see this going into two or three more episodes if we're not careful about it.

01:09:17.500 --> 01:09:20.500
No, um, I actually only have, uh, five minutes of stuff.

01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:21.780
Okay, well, let's, um.

01:09:21.780 --> 01:09:23.160
Yeah, so I'll just wrap it up.

01:09:23.240 --> 01:09:24.120
Yeah, let, let's keep going.

01:09:24.180 --> 01:09:26.180
You've got, you, I think we've got about five or so minutes.

01:09:26.240 --> 01:09:26.900
I think we're okay.

01:09:27.900 --> 01:09:28.240
Okay.

01:09:28.240 --> 01:09:31.960
Um, okay, so I just want to talk about address scope a little bit.

01:09:32.080 --> 01:09:34.120
Uh, there's three Unicat scopes.

01:09:34.280 --> 01:09:37.240
You have global, site local, and link local.

01:09:37.600 --> 01:09:43.160
Now, the site local addresses is your, basically your non-link local addresses,

01:09:43.760 --> 01:09:51.460
which are valid within your scope of a site, in quotes, and you can't export, you know, beyond your site.

01:09:51.580 --> 01:09:57.720
So I guess that's like your private site, um, you know, not private, as in like, uh, you know,

01:09:57.720 --> 01:10:02.380
one, one, nine, two, one, six, eight, but private, as in, it's supposed to be just your site.

01:10:02.600 --> 01:10:08.940
Now, the link local addresses, logically, you know, therefore, uh, you know,

01:10:09.100 --> 01:10:13.320
those things that are, you're connected to on the same hub or switch, right?

01:10:13.360 --> 01:10:14.500
Like your local LAN.

01:10:14.840 --> 01:10:16.740
So, like, things you can get from one hub.

01:10:17.560 --> 01:10:21.380
And then, finally, your site local is basically your network.

01:10:21.840 --> 01:10:26.380
So they split it up like that, and, you know, it's not too important, but that's just how they do it.

01:10:26.380 --> 01:10:29.200
And, lastly, you have v6, right?

01:10:29.320 --> 01:10:32.500
So the main thing to think about is how are you going to switch over.

01:10:33.200 --> 01:10:40.400
Now, right now, right now at this moment, you can go and use IPv6 in your home network.

01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:44.360
But what you're going to have to do is tunnel over v4.

01:10:44.940 --> 01:10:55.080
So you have v6 traffic stuck in a v4 packet and sent over the internet to another site that has, that supports v6.

01:10:55.080 --> 01:11:01.900
So the options very quickly are having a dual stack, which means you have one network stack that implements v6

01:11:01.900 --> 01:11:08.180
and v4 that share a lot of the, you know, common parsing code, but just the different parts, you know,

01:11:08.580 --> 01:11:10.400
that need to be different are.

01:11:10.780 --> 01:11:14.280
And I don't actually have an example of this because I don't know, you know,

01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:19.660
if people are implementing this because I think they just do two for, like, for simplicity.

01:11:19.660 --> 01:11:26.500
Now, you can do tunneling, which is what I was mentioning, you know, which is the encapsulation,

01:11:26.920 --> 01:11:31.040
and you have to, like, find a way to know where to send it.

01:11:31.320 --> 01:11:35.100
So now there are these, like, broker services.

01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:42.940
You can connect to them directly and you can pay them to send, you know, to send these things for you

01:11:42.940 --> 01:11:47.900
to, like, know, they know where to, where the v6 addresses are on the other side.

01:11:48.020 --> 01:11:49.960
So they'll do the encapsulation for you.

01:11:50.580 --> 01:11:57.080
Now, there are other automatic routing, tunneling techniques you can use, like, like the six phone exists,

01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:01.400
where, where it's, like, people themselves run a bunch of servers.

01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:06.440
So you have these little islands of v6 and you kind of do the routing yourself

01:12:06.440 --> 01:12:08.580
and you, like, pass routes around and stuff.

01:12:09.260 --> 01:12:09.280
Right.

01:12:09.440 --> 01:12:13.020
Well, when this goes wide scale, to kind of wrap this up,

01:12:13.180 --> 01:12:16.820
basically what's going to happen is we're going to turn the interweb off for a day, right?

01:12:17.260 --> 01:12:19.360
And then come up the next day on IPv6.

01:12:19.460 --> 01:12:21.100
Is that how we're, isn't that what we're doing?

01:12:21.620 --> 01:12:22.520
Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

01:12:22.600 --> 01:12:27.300
No one views the internet on January 2nd, 2010.

01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:30.480
Okay, okay, Mark your calendars.

01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:32.980
That's the day that the switchover will happen.

01:12:32.980 --> 01:12:41.200
Yeah, so I mean, like, Japan and China, like, and other people who kind of are sick of the U.S.

01:12:41.300 --> 01:12:45.520
owning the internet, they're, they're, one of their motivations is, like, you know,

01:12:45.560 --> 01:12:50.240
we want to control our own internet, so we're going to switch to v6 and screw you guys.

01:12:50.400 --> 01:12:51.060
We're going home.

01:12:51.400 --> 01:12:53.220
And we're going to have our own backbone.

01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:54.500
Screw you guys.

01:12:54.500 --> 01:12:56.140
So then we're really all over it.

01:12:56.480 --> 01:13:01.240
All right, well, I think, um, I think unless there's anything else you've got to spit out quickly,

01:13:01.240 --> 01:13:04.140
that's going to probably take us into the closing.

01:13:04.260 --> 01:13:06.900
Actually, we've got maybe one or two minutes.

01:13:07.020 --> 01:13:09.260
Can I ask a couple quick questions, or did you?

01:13:09.340 --> 01:13:10.400
Yeah, no, go for it.

01:13:10.400 --> 01:13:14.840
Like, well, one thing that immediately comes to mind to me that I can see being hella annoying

01:13:14.840 --> 01:13:21.280
is that right now it's, it's easy to remember or memorize your IP addresses.

01:13:21.280 --> 01:13:26.740
It's four numbers, and we know the ranges of the numbers up to 255, the highest number.

01:13:26.740 --> 01:13:30.000
It makes it easy to memorize, jot them down, et cetera, et cetera.

01:13:30.540 --> 01:13:34.860
Isn't it going to be a pain with IPv6 trying to memorize your IP address, which is like

01:13:34.860 --> 01:13:40.880
EF8A-JJ7Q, I mean, not Q, but you know what I mean.

01:13:41.300 --> 01:13:43.320
Isn't it going to be a little bit more of a hassle for that?

01:13:43.320 --> 01:13:51.020
Yeah, so, I mean, let me, first of all, hopefully, if things are implemented in a way where you

01:13:51.020 --> 01:13:57.020
don't have to remember IP addresses, because, I mean, most people nowadays that are not geeks

01:13:57.020 --> 01:14:00.920
and not hackers, they don't know, like, the IP addresses and stuff.

01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:01.800
They just use DNS.

01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:08.800
And hopefully, you know, that trend will continue and grow as the addresses become more, you

01:14:08.800 --> 01:14:09.580
know, unwieldy.

01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:16.960
But having said that, though, you don't really need to remember the, like, the whole address.

01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:26.160
It's broken up in such a way that you can remember, like, the address of a site, and then you can,

01:14:26.280 --> 01:14:30.120
you know, remember the address of, like, a host.

01:14:30.120 --> 01:14:31.960
So you can do it in a hierarchical way.

01:14:32.080 --> 01:14:32.220
Right.

01:14:32.300 --> 01:14:36.000
There is a method to it, and we'll have to put that up on the website or something, because

01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:36.660
we're running low.

01:14:36.800 --> 01:14:43.100
But there is a breakdown that says this first part of the address, well, I narrow it down

01:14:43.100 --> 01:14:45.180
to a certain part, and then the second part of the address.

01:14:45.300 --> 01:14:47.220
There is some method to that.

01:14:47.320 --> 01:14:50.600
There is a naming convention for that, for lack of a reason.

01:14:50.600 --> 01:14:56.080
Yeah, I mean, if you want to know more specifics, just freaking go read the Wikipedia article.

01:14:56.260 --> 01:14:59.640
Well, they're at the stage now, hopefully, yeah, hopefully from listening to this episode,

01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:03.400
everyone should be on the stage now, where if you do go read that, you might actually

01:15:03.400 --> 01:15:07.180
understand a lot more of it than when, before the show started.

01:15:07.260 --> 01:15:09.060
I know I will for sure.

01:15:10.140 --> 01:15:13.280
So let's close out the show for this week.

01:15:13.360 --> 01:15:15.480
I think we did cover just about everything.

01:15:15.480 --> 01:15:19.880
It was still a lot of information to force into one episode, but I think we got through

01:15:19.880 --> 01:15:25.000
everything pretty well this time, enough that, again, people can take it from here and go

01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:26.040
do their own research.

01:15:26.400 --> 01:15:32.120
If there are any questions, of course, they can email us, radio at binrev.com, any kind

01:15:32.120 --> 01:15:34.520
of feedback on this or any of the episodes of the show.

01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:40.800
So, site of the week this week is something actually I picked up in the Binrev IRC channel.

01:15:40.980 --> 01:15:42.220
It's a program.

01:15:42.440 --> 01:15:49.620
It's called, well, the site is feedjournal.com, F-E-E-D-J-O-U-R-N-A-L.com.

01:15:50.120 --> 01:15:51.540
It's kind of a neat little thing.

01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:55.740
I don't know why somebody hadn't thought of it before that will take RSS feeds from multiple

01:15:55.740 --> 01:16:02.080
sources and generate a PDF file that is basically, looks like a newspaper that you can actually

01:16:02.080 --> 01:16:06.660
print off and make a newspaper out of it, which is kind of funny because when I see people

01:16:06.660 --> 01:16:11.540
reading the paper, my joke is always, hey, a newspaper, isn't that like printing the internet,

01:16:11.680 --> 01:16:12.040
basically?

01:16:12.760 --> 01:16:18.020
So, actually, I guess now you can print the internet and make it a newspaper, so it comes

01:16:18.020 --> 01:16:18.540
full circle.

01:16:19.280 --> 01:16:20.760
So, that's kind of a neat program.

01:16:22.480 --> 01:16:29.200
Closing music this week is, actually, it's the current song fight as we're airing this episode.

01:16:29.200 --> 01:16:31.960
It's, uh, the track is called You Get the Wiser.

01:16:32.620 --> 01:16:36.940
It's, um, this particular version is from Mr. Man and Dr. Funk.

01:16:37.060 --> 01:16:40.420
I don't know who wins or if they'll win, so it'll be interesting to see if the one that

01:16:40.420 --> 01:16:43.220
I liked or picked ends up winning or not.

01:16:43.280 --> 01:16:49.380
But it's a nice song to end with because, um, actually, we're not going to do any shouts

01:16:49.380 --> 01:16:51.620
tonight because I kind of want to bypass this.

01:16:51.680 --> 01:16:53.940
And I'm sorry, Verbal, if you had any shouts, we'll put them off.

01:16:53.940 --> 01:16:58.880
But I'd rather skip it because I kind of have some sad news to close the show with this

01:16:58.880 --> 01:16:59.180
week.

01:16:59.720 --> 01:17:06.640
Um, I, I gotta pass on my condolences, um, to the family of, of Lilo or Lilo, however

01:17:06.640 --> 01:17:07.460
you want to pronounce it.

01:17:07.480 --> 01:17:09.640
I actually know his real name.

01:17:09.700 --> 01:17:13.380
I've spoken to him on the phone before, but he's the, the guy who's running the Freenode

01:17:13.380 --> 01:17:14.440
IRC servers.

01:17:14.840 --> 01:17:16.420
Um, we've dealt with him in the past.

01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:21.720
Binrev was actually on Freenode for a while until we had some people come in there, stir up

01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:25.980
a little trouble and that's actually how I met and spoke to, uh, him before.

01:17:26.200 --> 01:17:32.700
And he unfortunately passed away a couple of weeks ago as I found out and not in a, not,

01:17:32.920 --> 01:17:38.300
in a very bad way, unfortunately, a hit and run, which is not cool at all.

01:17:38.460 --> 01:17:42.840
So, um, instead of giving shouts out, I just want to pass my condolences on to him.

01:17:42.840 --> 01:17:50.440
And, uh, anybody who's ever met him knows that he was really trying to free note, make

01:17:50.440 --> 01:17:54.660
Freenode into something different than what traditionally IRC has been with all the chaos

01:17:54.660 --> 01:17:55.720
and the problems and everything.

01:17:55.960 --> 01:17:59.820
So, um, somebody who was really driven to make change and do something good.

01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:05.800
So, uh, my condolences go out to him and sorry to end on such a sad note for this week,

01:18:05.860 --> 01:18:08.820
but verbal, thank you for doing the show again this week.

01:18:08.820 --> 01:18:12.920
I think we did cover a lot of good topics and, again, got people started on the subject.

01:18:13.620 --> 01:18:16.860
So, I think that is going to do it for this week.

01:18:17.040 --> 01:18:18.760
Welcome to the DDP, my friend.

01:18:19.120 --> 01:18:22.540
And let's tell everybody that we will see them next week.

01:18:23.020 --> 01:18:23.800
Same Hack time.

01:18:24.640 --> 01:18:25.820
Same Hack channel.

01:18:27.820 --> 01:18:30.820
When you're old

01:18:30.820 --> 01:18:35.560
Feeling like you're dead

01:18:35.560 --> 01:18:41.700
With wrinkles on your head

01:18:41.700 --> 01:18:46.080
Don't think about me

01:18:46.080 --> 01:18:52.240
When you're young

01:18:52.240 --> 01:18:57.320
Full of your energy

01:18:57.320 --> 01:19:03.460
And the languid sun

01:19:03.460 --> 01:19:06.080
Has just begun

01:19:06.080 --> 01:19:09.300
To give us all

01:19:09.300 --> 01:19:14.500
And the sun has seen

01:19:14.500 --> 01:19:18.580
Where everyone has been

01:19:18.580 --> 01:19:24.460
And then they're gone

01:19:24.460 --> 01:19:25.600
Moving everyone

01:19:25.600 --> 01:19:29.600
Moving everyone

01:19:29.600 --> 01:19:31.600
Along

01:19:31.600 --> 01:19:37.120
Acting like you just don't care

01:19:37.120 --> 01:19:41.600
But the sun will follow everywhere

01:19:41.600 --> 01:19:47.760
When the young get old

01:19:47.760 --> 01:19:50.400
And the old pass on

01:19:50.400 --> 01:19:53.220
There will always be

01:19:53.220 --> 01:19:53.240
There will always be

01:19:53.240 --> 01:19:55.940
A shining sun

01:19:55.940 --> 01:19:58.600
It happens to

01:19:58.600 --> 01:20:02.920
Everyone we know

01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:08.460
Everyone we know

01:20:08.460 --> 01:20:14.380
Everyone we know

01:20:14.380 --> 01:20:22.400
Everyone we know

01:20:22.400 --> 01:20:26.500
Everyone we know

01:20:26.500 --> 01:20:27.320
Everyone we know

01:20:27.320 --> 01:20:27.600
Everyone we know

01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:28.940
Everyone we know

01:20:28.940 --> 01:20:34.320
Everyone we know

01:20:34.660 --> 01:20:35.240
Everyone we know

01:20:35.240 --> 01:20:39.380
Everyone we know

01:20:39.380 --> 01:20:40.380
Everyone we know

01:20:40.380 --> 01:20:42.840
Everyone we know

01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:43.200
Everyone we know

01:20:43.200 --> 01:20:43.520
Everyone we know

01:20:43.520 --> 01:20:44.080
Everyone we know