WEBVTT

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This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.

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I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you

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and a fag pwned.

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In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold.

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I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.

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On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.

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In a flash, I'll screw you on burning Dreamcast. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle.

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Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.

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I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.

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Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.

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You feel that rattling your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones.

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And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crudents.

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Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.

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We are finally back with an episode of Binary Revolution Radio with you this week for episode 194.

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I am StankDog.

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And you are listening to this on May 15th, 2007.

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Once again, episode 194.

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And to jump right into the show, first thing this week, I'll go ahead and introduce my co-host for this week.

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Some of you may recognize the voice because he actually hosted the show last week.

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Face Man is on the show with us this week.

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Welcome to you.

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Hello, StankDog and everyone else.

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And we have a topic that we're going to cover later today that I've been kind of putting off and putting off and putting off for a long time on the show

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because it's just one of those topics that could go on and on forever.

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Kind of like me, when I start talking, I can go on and on forever.

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But we think we've got it nailed down to some bullet points, some topics that we can cover on the show and still do it justice.

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So, I guess let's go ahead and do some housekeeping before we get into too much of that and then reveal the topic later.

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I have a couple things to talk about in housekeeping.

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One of them, let's see, we have some updates to Bell's Mind that I wanted to mention on the air.

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Some people who use Bell's Mind regularly, of course, bellsmind.net.

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If you're using it regularly, you might have noticed that there's a few new features that have popped up here and there.

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And if not, you might want to go check them out.

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Go over to the NPA NXX lookup.

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You'll see a few extra tabs on there.

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Those of you who may have some accounts on Bell's Mind, if you log in, you might find some other cool things.

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And a big, mysterious circle at the bottom.

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Anyway, I'm not going to go into too much details.

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Pretty much the new features there are self-explanatory.

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But there's also some features on there that may help in some future projects.

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So, we'll talk about that more when the time comes.

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And the only other thing I wanted to mention is we spent some time recently creating a new group in the forums.

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Actually, I got two.

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I have one thing that's not on the notes here, Faceman.

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I'm going to throw in here.

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One thing, though, is we added a new group in the forums called Agents of the Revolution,

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which is a new group that we've given some more access, some more benefits and features in the forums.

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And we've moved people in there who are long-term, and not even necessarily long-term,

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but people who are productive members of the forums who post on-topic intelligent posts in the forum and articles

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and replies to people that are helpful, that get what it's all about,

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that people that stay out of the drama, stay out of the off-topic forums.

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People are actually producing content, I guess, is the way what it always comes down to.

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People are actually trying to help and who get what it's all about.

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So, those people, we're moving them over time, and this is an ongoing thing.

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We're moving them into a new group called Agents of the Revolution.

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And what that is is we have a special forum where the only people in that group have access

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where we can talk about things that maybe we don't want the Google Spider to pick up yet,

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so we put it in kind of a special forum that only we have access to.

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We talk about a few things that we may not want the forums at large to know about yet.

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Maybe we want to discuss maybe even things related to the forums,

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as well as just some information that we might not necessarily want to share with everyone

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because, well, when you post certain things out there,

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they have a tendency to get abused and destroyed quickly,

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so we want to try to keep that within a certain circle of trust, if you will.

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So, how do you get to become an agent of the revolution?

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Well, like I said earlier, post on topic and intelligently, you know,

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act like you've got some sense in the forums, which seems to be pretty rare these days.

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We won't go into dropping names or anything, but basically don't post or stay on topic

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and be helpful to the community and you will certainly, most certainly, be added to the group.

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Unless you absolutely don't want to, which is, you know, I guess entirely possible.

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Another thing, too, and I kind of mentioned I might want to add this in there, Faceman,

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is that, I don't know, the forums the last couple of weeks, at least for me personally,

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as many of the listeners may know, I don't, unfortunately, have as much time as I used to

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to go in and read everything in the forums.

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But there are certain, if something catches my eye, it means it's pretty doggone extreme

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because I can't see everything that's going on.

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So when I see something that's annoying the hell out of me in the forums,

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that means it's probably annoying the hell out of a lot of other people.

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So I just wanted to make note that we have acknowledged that we have some problem children

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in the forums, for lack of a better word.

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And once again, we won't drop any names, but people who do nothing but post the just

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inane topics and some of which don't make sense, some of which they simply are too lazy

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to Google and Faceman.

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You know what I'm talking about here, right?

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Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

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And it wouldn't be that hard to figure out who you're talking about either.

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Yeah, exactly.

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We don't have to throw any names out there because I think people know.

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And I just want to acknowledge that we have, we acknowledge this situation.

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And it's gotten a little annoying even for me.

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So we're working on a solution to that, trying to come up with the best way to handle those people.

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You know, one of the things about BinRev and part of the revolution is we want to be open.

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And we want people to feel welcome.

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We want people to come in and be able to learn and be able to interact with people and learn

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from people and learn from each other.

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But you've got to try.

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And there's been a lot of people in the past that have come in and started off, quite frankly,

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as not the best members, not the best hackers or anything.

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But over time did actually learn.

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They may have started off and made some mistakes or, I don't know, some noob comments, for lack of a better word.

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I hate throwing that around, but people who have come in and didn't know any better.

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But because we were accessible and because we're friendly and we're helpful and because we have the new BHQ,

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they did actually learn and they did improve.

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I think right now we're just on a little bit of a bad streak where people just don't seem to care to listen

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or learn or want to improve themselves anymore.

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So at some point you have to, and I hate saying this, but you just have to cut your losses with certain people

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and move on because they're detracting from everyone else's experience of the forums.

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So there's been some discussion of that in the moderating team and even the Agents of the Revolution.

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We've talked about that, of how we're going to handle it.

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And sometimes the band hammer swings low.

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That's all I can say.

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So if you're in that category, you might want to step it up real fast.

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And if you're worried that you might be in that category, you probably want to step it up as well.

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So just throw that out there.

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I don't know, face me on my being a little harsh there.

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I'm trying to be polite.

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I don't know if it's coming across that way.

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No, I think it's about time.

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Yeah, I mean, we try to be...

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You know, it's hard.

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You want to be...

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I'm getting it from both ends because...

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I'm just going to call them klubies.

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I mean, the klubies, the klubies, the clueless newbies that come in are annoying on one hand.

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And I'm getting attitude and stuff from them.

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But also, on the opposite hand, I'm getting attitude and anger from the other members of the forum who are pissed off because of all the drama and all the stupidity that's going on.

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And it's easy to say, just ignore it and read the rest of the forums, but it's just there's too many of them right now.

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So we're probably going to be doing a little house cleaning.

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I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that summer is just starting.

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You know, I honestly think you're right because we went through this a little bit last year about this time.

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And I think it really is some summer stuff.

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I, you know, I don't want to say that all people of a certain age or anything, but certainly it seems like a higher percentage come in the summer.

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So take that statistic for whatever it's worth.

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We'll leave it at that.

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Well, not everybody can be as old as you.

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Yeah, well, not many people live to be as old as I am.

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I'm not that old.

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Jeez, you make me sound like a complete dinosaur.

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Just because I remember punch cards doesn't mean I'm obsolete yet.

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Doesn't mean I still use punch cards.

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Although I could.

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Anyway, I guess that would be, do you have anything you want to talk about in housekeeping?

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No, I'm good.

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I think the only, we, we, we did put up episode 193 on the, on the podcast and everything, right?

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So we're good there.

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Yep.

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All right.

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So why don't we take some email?

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And when I say some email, I guess I should have said one email because we only have one email to talk about this week.

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And Faceman, this may be for you.

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I'm not sure.

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Let me just read it and we'll figure it out.

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This email comes from Fireworm.

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Fireworm, W-Y-R-M, as in the dragon.

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On your last show, you guys talked about the guy who hacked the New York Times and made over 3,000 searches.

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Well, okay.

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He says NYT.

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I assume that's New York Times.

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And made over 3,000 searches.

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His name was Adrian Lamo.

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I just thought I'd let you know since you guys couldn't remember.

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Anyway, thanks for the show.

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I try to listen as much as I can.

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Keep it up.

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So thank you, Fireworm, for the email.

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And I'm going to kick it right over to you, Faceman.

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Did you guys talk about New York Times at all or somebody searching anything 3,000?

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Did that...

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I have no idea what he's talking about.

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Well, I sure as hell don't.

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Yeah, I'm wondering if he was listening to another show.

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Okay, to apply some social engineering here, which is what our main topic is going to be, it's too detailed for him to have made that up.

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He heard somebody say something about searching over 3,000 times.

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So he heard it somewhere.

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But you know what?

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Maybe...

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Well, he even says on your last show.

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I was going to say, maybe he's listening to an old episode from the archive or something.

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But he says on the last show, maybe one of the other guys threw it out there or something.

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I don't know.

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But I'm sure Adrian Lamo's not the only person who hacked the New York Times.

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But he was one of the most well-known, I guess.

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The homeless hacker, as he is commonly referred to.

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And that's been quite a while ago.

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That's been a few years ago.

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You mentioned the homeless hacker on the Java episode.

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Did I?

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You did.

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See?

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I'm going to file that under early senility then, I guess.

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I'm going senile in my old age.

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I don't remember, but I don't think I've ever struggled to remember Adrian Lamo's name.

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But I guess I did.

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Well, there we go.

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We have it straightened up.

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Adrian Lamo searching 3,000 times.

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I really do not remember the context.

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But, Fireworm, thank you for calling in to correct us of that.

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I appreciate the email.

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Now, we have got a main topic that we want to make sure we do justice.

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And as I said a second ago, it is social engineering.

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Now, that is just a really, really, really big target, I guess, to try to cover everything.

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And Faceman and I talked through this a little bit.

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And we've come up with, I think, a good structured way to talk about it.

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We're certainly not, and let me preface the whole thing, we're certainly not going to be able to cover everything.

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There's no way we're going to be able to cover everything.

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There's enough information on this topic to write multiple books on the topic.

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So, don't, the other thing is there's no definition for this.

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This is the other thing.

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It's a very intangible term, to believe it or not.

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Social engineering doesn't really have, it has, I guess, a definition.

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But it's not like a set list of things that you can go down a list of bullet points.

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Now, normally when we do topics on the show, it's very technical and we can take you step by step through some things

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and explain exactly how a system works because it is sequential in nature.

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It does have steps to it.

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Social engineering is not like that.

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It's very, just completely arbitrary, random.

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It's different every time.

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It's a shapeless void.

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Yeah, it's a shapeless void.

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That sounds very Star Trek-y.

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It is a shapeless void of techniques, of different situations, goals, all kinds of things rolled into one.

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And the part of being a good social engineer is being able to navigate through that shapeless void.

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Now, see, you see how I took your shapeless void and kind of worked that all into the thing on the fly like that?

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See?

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Perfect example.

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That is social engineering applied right there.

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You have to be able to adapt and flow with whatever happens in front of you.

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So, I guess let's start off a little bit.

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Actually, let me say this.

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It's the reason that I specifically wanted to do the show with Face Man.

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I really wanted to do the show with you because Face Man had sent me some show notes of the topic of the idea.

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And there was one line in those notes that just caught my attention that is something that I have –

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Basically, my pet peeve about this subject is that certain people have this mindset that social engineering means lying to people on the phone.

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I mean, really, there are a lot of people.

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A lot of people.

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A lot of really, I don't know, very well-known people who claim to be great social engineers.

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I'm an expert social engineer for the record.

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What's that?

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I'm an expert social engineer for the record.

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Of course you are.

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Of course, that's a joke because, as we were saying before we started recording,

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anybody who claims to be an expert social engineer is not an expert social engineer.

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They're not.

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I mean, you may think you are and you may want to be,

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but most people that say that's because they have in their mind that social engineering means lying to somebody on the phone.

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So, if you can call up the operator and lie to her and say,

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oh, I'm technician number 61741232B, can you transfer me?

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That's one – I mean, I guess you'd have to classify that as one part of social engineering.

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You are manipulating the system.

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You are using knowledge to circumvent a human system.

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So, that is a small part.

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But too many people believe that's it.

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They believe that it's about knowing a certain buzzword to drop on an operator.

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Oh, yeah, give me trunk, tandem, blah, blah, alpha, bravo, whatever the fuck.

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You know, drop a certain word to somebody or know the right number to call or the right code to drop or something like that.

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And that's social engineering.

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Well, no, that's research.

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That's researching and learning how a system works and then applying said research

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and using some social engineering techniques to do it.

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But social engineering to me – and Faceman, I don't know.

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I'm going to drop this as a global statement and see what you think.

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But social engineering to me is any – is altering, affecting, manipulating any interaction with any other person.

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Not sure how you think – how you feel about that one.

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But it's not just on the phone is what I'm trying to say.

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Yeah.

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There are multiple places and forms, and I think we're going to talk about that.

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There are many, many different goals.

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It doesn't necessarily mean you're lying to someone to get information or to trick them into doing something.

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And there are many different techniques that can be applied that, once again, have nothing to do with lying,

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that have to do with usually 99% of the time getting information or getting yourself in or out of a situation.

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It may not have to do with information at all.

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Now, I'm not sure if you're going to go with me on that tangent, but sometimes a lot of social engineering, for example, you can social – if I could speak – let me see if I can social engineer my way through this episode.

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Social engineer yourself out of a speeding ticket, for example.

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Yes.

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You know, see what I'm saying?

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You can get yourself into or out of a situation.

18:13.880 --> 18:17.360
Social engineer yourself into the VIP area at the club.

18:17.500 --> 18:23.240
Social engineer yourself and upgrade to first class on the airplane, something that I'm very common, very good with.

18:24.100 --> 18:27.320
Things like that that are also part of social engineering to me.

18:27.320 --> 18:30.300
Okay, well, let me throw out this possible definition.

18:30.500 --> 18:30.820
Sure.

18:31.500 --> 18:37.100
Anytime you are more knowledgeable of the conversation on purpose than the other person.

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To a certain extent, I agree with that.

18:41.600 --> 18:46.420
It's not always more knowledgeable, but you may know one thing that they don't.

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Yes.

18:48.020 --> 18:54.980
You may not be more knowledgeable in general, but if you know something that they don't know – and truthfully, that's not all of the time either.

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Sometimes they can know everything.

18:56.960 --> 19:05.040
You just use a little wordplay and a little trickery to make them still give up that information or do what you want them to do.

19:06.300 --> 19:06.880
You know, one of the –

19:06.880 --> 19:14.500
Well, even if you're going to trick someone, then you kind of pay attention to the conversation a little bit more and, in essence, no more.

19:15.660 --> 19:19.580
Yeah, and that's one – actually, that's one good key point to say right now.

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One of the most important things is paying attention.

19:22.440 --> 19:22.660
Yeah.

19:22.660 --> 19:28.500
One thing I like to say to people is that every word has meaning.

19:30.180 --> 19:32.700
Every single word in a conversation has meaning.

19:32.700 --> 19:43.460
And I know that sounds kind of strange or kind of silly, or even when you're writing, I choose the words that I write and that I say very carefully.

19:43.460 --> 19:54.800
And maybe now that I'm revealing this on the air, people might actually hear me pause sometimes before I speak or hear me think or take that little hesitation before I say what's on my mind.

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It's even easier and better when you're typing something up in the forums, how I word things in the forums.

19:59.740 --> 20:12.900
There's a lot of subliminal – not subliminal messages, but there's a lot of subliminal things that are inferred by using a certain set of words and by the way you phrase things.

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Let me give a simple example.

20:16.980 --> 20:28.000
One simple example would be, oh, my boss is such an ass or something like that, as opposed to somebody saying, my boss is such a bitch.

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Now, those two sentences are basically saying the same thing, but you can infer a little bit of extra information just by paying attention and listening to what they're inferring, what that subliminal message is behind there, what that unspoken pronoun that exists in that sentence.

20:46.240 --> 20:56.280
And social engineering is picking up on those type of things and realizing that the first example had a male boss and the second example had a female boss.

20:56.280 --> 21:02.840
In most circumstances, there's probably – we could go into a gray – yeah, we could go into a gray area and then fall through with that.

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None of these rules are hard and fast.

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Oh, that's probably a bad choice of words.

21:07.700 --> 21:11.420
No, none of these rules are set in stone, we'll say.

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But majority of the times, you can infer a lot of information like that.

21:18.100 --> 21:18.940
I would agree.

21:20.140 --> 21:20.860
I concur.

21:20.860 --> 21:22.720
And we will continue.

21:22.920 --> 21:23.340
And you know what?

21:23.420 --> 21:30.040
And actually, you're being silly, but truthfully, right there, what you just said, you can infer two different things from those statements that you said.

21:30.240 --> 21:31.640
I agree and I concur.

21:32.420 --> 21:35.020
What kind of person says I concur?

21:35.260 --> 21:39.760
If you ever hear somebody say I concur, that says volumes about that person.

21:40.760 --> 21:45.580
You know, it says that they have a vocabulary, you know, as opposed to somebody who just says I agree.

21:45.800 --> 21:46.900
That may not mean anything.

21:46.900 --> 21:58.300
I say I agree all the time, but if I ever said – if I was in a certain scenario with certain people, I might choose to say I concur because it sends a different message.

21:58.560 --> 22:00.960
It shows a different part of me.

22:01.080 --> 22:09.500
It makes people think something differently when they hear me say that, and therefore, they will react and treat me different and speak to me differently because of that.

22:09.800 --> 22:14.660
So choice of every word is important, even something as off the cuff as I agree.

22:14.660 --> 22:16.280
So that was a good example.

22:16.300 --> 22:29.200
And along with I concur or I agree, depending on the tone of voice that it was said with, it could also mean that professionally you have to agree, but you don't really want it to go with that particular way.

22:30.660 --> 22:38.880
Yeah, there's a – you know, and we probably – let's – we're going to come back to some tips that are more along those lines towards, I think, the end of this topic.

22:38.880 --> 22:54.320
So why don't we – I guess as we start to delve in here, the other thing I wanted to talk about up front is that a lot of people seem to think that they are these great social engineering experts, et cetera, et cetera, that I talked about before.

22:54.320 --> 23:04.500
Actually, I'm going to – I'm not going to drop any – I'm not going to say any names, but I just got to tell you, I've got somebody – I've got people in mind, a couple of people that just bug the hell out of me.

23:05.340 --> 23:12.020
I hate people that come up to me and they claim that they're a hacker and they're an expert at social engineering.

23:12.020 --> 23:18.420
First of all, if you think you're an expert at social engineering, you're probably not, like I said earlier.

23:19.020 --> 23:28.200
Secondly, using my social engineering skills and reading between the lines there, what you're really telling me is you're a hacker who doesn't know how to hack.

23:28.940 --> 23:31.520
So you're going to fall under the social engineering.

23:31.520 --> 23:38.460
You don't know anything technically, apparently, or you're not strong enough technically, so you're going to brag about your social engineering skills

23:38.460 --> 23:47.180
because you have that mindset of lying on the phone, traditional, simplistic mentality, that that's all there is to social engineering.

23:47.420 --> 23:50.800
And you think you can fit in by putting yourself in this niche.

23:50.860 --> 23:52.760
Some people are experts at Java.

23:52.940 --> 23:55.660
Some people are experts at penetration testing.

23:56.100 --> 23:58.240
Some people are experts at stack smashing.

23:58.240 --> 24:05.000
Whatever your expertise or area of interest is, you think that you're going to fill a little niche by saying that you're a social engineer.

24:05.240 --> 24:07.640
Well, nobody specializes.

24:07.640 --> 24:13.580
I mean, some people may be good at social engineering, but that doesn't make you a hacker necessarily that you can lie on the phone.

24:14.180 --> 24:18.020
So it's kind of a pet peeve of mine, people that claim that they're social engineering experts.

24:19.060 --> 24:28.000
However, somewhat related to that point, I want to make it very clear, and again, FaceTime, I don't know if you'll agree with me on this,

24:28.000 --> 24:32.440
but social engineering is definitely something that some people have a gift.

24:32.600 --> 24:34.200
Some people are good at it naturally.

24:34.380 --> 24:35.800
You just have the gift of gab.

24:35.800 --> 24:41.520
You can just talk and manipulate people just in the way you choose your language.

24:41.660 --> 24:43.060
Maybe it's an experience thing.

24:43.200 --> 24:46.100
Maybe it really is just an innate gift that some people have.

24:46.720 --> 24:52.620
But that being said, I do believe, and FaceTime, whatever you think here,

24:53.180 --> 24:57.520
I do believe that social engineering is something that can be taught and can be learned.

24:57.520 --> 25:04.900
I think there are absolutely techniques that anybody listening right now can pick up on and become a better social engineer,

25:04.980 --> 25:06.220
even by the end of this show.

25:06.220 --> 25:10.180
Yes, I would agree with that as well.

25:10.180 --> 25:21.440
It might help if you do have that gift of gab, so to speak, that you can be quick, off-the-cuff, impromptu, improvisation,

25:21.520 --> 25:25.020
whatever, all these things that you want to throw, all these turns you want to throw around that mean the same thing.

25:25.020 --> 25:32.240
If you're quick-witted and quick off your feet and can recover and catch anything that's thrown at you,

25:32.740 --> 25:34.380
then you might be better at it.

25:34.700 --> 25:37.940
But there are definitely techniques that anybody and everybody can learn,

25:38.160 --> 25:40.580
and we're going to talk about some of them now actually,

25:41.420 --> 25:47.520
that will make you accomplish things that you never really thought about or realized before through social engineering.

25:47.520 --> 25:52.600
So, in that mindset, let's kind of move on now.

25:53.000 --> 25:55.520
And, Facebook, while I'm going to get a drink here,

25:55.560 --> 25:58.360
and I'm going to let you talk about some of the different forms of social engineering.

25:58.660 --> 26:05.640
We've kind of alluded to them earlier, but different forms or mediums or, I don't know, places or types,

26:05.740 --> 26:07.280
I'm not even sure how to label this.

26:07.360 --> 26:11.840
So, why don't you talk about some of the different types of social engineering or forms of social engineering?

26:12.700 --> 26:14.900
Yeah, I know what you mean about labeling these,

26:14.900 --> 26:19.260
because when I was throwing together the talking points, I had no idea what to call them.

26:19.480 --> 26:19.880
Exactly.

26:20.160 --> 26:26.200
So, these are by no means terms that everyone should adopt as law or whatever.

26:27.460 --> 26:34.540
We're going to start off with kind of social engineering over the phone or in person.

26:35.060 --> 26:41.760
These both are types of attack generally used with impersonation of an employee or a customer

26:41.760 --> 26:45.260
or anyone that should have access to the information,

26:45.440 --> 26:53.180
whether it be a third-party repair technician or just somebody that comes in off the street.

26:55.680 --> 26:57.300
That's generally what's used there.

26:58.240 --> 27:04.200
The most commonly used form of social engineering is most likely the phone,

27:04.200 --> 27:05.740
as it's the easiest way to do it.

27:06.080 --> 27:12.460
You don't have to maybe get dressed up or go to the location of where this might be going on.

27:13.140 --> 27:15.660
You know, you just call somebody up and there you are.

27:15.660 --> 27:22.020
Whether it be the operator, operator on a special, dial a number for me.

27:23.800 --> 27:28.060
Or call up your local high school and say,

27:28.060 --> 27:30.880
this is a telco employee.

27:31.320 --> 27:35.080
We need your PA number so we can access your PA.

27:35.320 --> 27:37.040
We've had a server crash or something.

27:38.140 --> 27:39.320
And get something there.

27:39.320 --> 27:45.180
You know, if you're younger, like myself, that's an excellent way to do that

27:45.180 --> 27:49.060
because they don't have to see your face.

27:49.680 --> 27:53.080
You could possibly use a voice changer if you have a high squeaky voice

27:53.080 --> 27:58.500
like some of the 12-year-olds I know or younger people, I should say.

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And so the phone is just an excellent way to do that.

28:04.620 --> 28:09.540
There's no, you don't have to really worry about body language that much.

28:09.680 --> 28:11.420
It's a much easier way to start off with.

28:11.640 --> 28:13.880
And it's an excellent way to start with.

28:14.300 --> 28:17.220
You can maybe start with some prank phone calls.

28:18.020 --> 28:21.860
Which seems childish, but it really is the most efficient way

28:21.860 --> 28:25.300
to kind of learn how to use some of these techniques.

28:26.740 --> 28:29.560
And, of course, along with this is in person.

28:30.140 --> 28:30.960
Well, actually, I'm sorry.

28:31.120 --> 28:33.900
While we're still focusing on the phone part of it,

28:33.900 --> 28:35.680
I think everything you said is correct,

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and it's exactly what most people think of the phone,

28:39.280 --> 28:41.780
impersonating somebody to gain some information,

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which is all well and good.

28:44.580 --> 28:49.080
But not even necessarily only prank calls, like trying to be funny,

28:49.220 --> 28:50.760
but just calling anybody.

28:51.040 --> 28:52.800
And this is one of the things that I really liked

28:52.800 --> 28:55.740
and wished more people would have explored on Freak Factor,

28:56.600 --> 28:58.920
was just calling anywhere.

28:59.080 --> 29:00.520
And I know the joke about Walmart,

29:00.520 --> 29:03.140
everybody trying to get on a Walmart intercom was what all the show was.

29:03.140 --> 29:07.100
But, you know what, calling stores, calling other people,

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calling whatever.

29:08.520 --> 29:10.200
I mean, you don't have to call the bowling alley

29:10.200 --> 29:11.780
and ask if they have 10-pound balls.

29:12.120 --> 29:15.160
You can call and ask a lot of other things like, you know,

29:16.760 --> 29:18.940
just any type of information.

29:19.300 --> 29:21.660
Even if it's not something you care about or want,

29:22.400 --> 29:24.060
the phone is a good place to practice.

29:24.780 --> 29:26.480
Call people up and you don't even,

29:26.480 --> 29:29.280
as a matter of fact, do it to yourself on purpose.

29:29.280 --> 29:30.980
Call somebody with no goal.

29:31.420 --> 29:32.660
Just make it up as you go along.

29:32.960 --> 29:35.220
Impromptu, just adapt, just to kind of train yourself,

29:35.300 --> 29:37.080
get yourself that ability to think on your feet.

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Call them and just make up some topic off the cuff.

29:41.160 --> 29:43.200
Ask if a certain person is there.

29:43.720 --> 29:44.860
And what does that tell you?

29:44.880 --> 29:46.160
If they say, no, they're not there.

29:46.280 --> 29:47.480
Oh, they're not working today.

29:47.480 --> 29:49.820
Oh, now you know this person works for that company,

29:49.920 --> 29:51.340
so you've gotten a little bit of information.

29:52.460 --> 29:54.220
Oh, what time do your deliveries come?

29:54.280 --> 29:57.000
I need to know what time to drop this stuff off.

29:57.320 --> 30:00.600
Or, you know, just any, it doesn't have to be a prank call

30:00.600 --> 30:01.460
is what I'm trying to say.

30:01.520 --> 30:02.480
It doesn't have to be humor.

30:02.680 --> 30:05.900
Just call and practice social engineering with people.

30:06.020 --> 30:09.720
Call asking questions and just learn information,

30:09.880 --> 30:11.040
you know, just learn from them.

30:13.620 --> 30:15.860
Yeah, I was just throwing prank phone calls out there

30:15.860 --> 30:16.540
as a suggestion.

30:16.540 --> 30:17.160
Oh, yeah, I know.

30:17.820 --> 30:19.340
That's the way I kind of learned to do it,

30:20.020 --> 30:21.340
and it seemed to work well for me.

30:21.960 --> 30:23.840
So, yeah.

30:24.540 --> 30:26.600
And then in person you were about to talk about.

30:27.140 --> 30:28.400
Yes, I was, yes.

30:29.100 --> 30:32.080
So, in person is pretty much the same way.

30:32.680 --> 30:35.440
If you're younger, like myself, it's not the easiest way.

30:36.220 --> 30:40.840
But you could say you're part of the junior city safety inspectors

30:40.840 --> 30:44.540
or something, and, you know, you just come up with something.

30:44.540 --> 30:48.500
You come up with a story to make it plausible that you can be there,

30:48.700 --> 30:51.680
whether you're younger or whether you're older, like Stank,

30:52.280 --> 30:56.420
or just whatever would make it work.

30:56.540 --> 31:02.300
You come up with a story on the spot or prepared or however,

31:02.300 --> 31:07.860
so that it fits that you should be there or that the information should be given to you

31:07.860 --> 31:10.720
or that they should even be talking to you.

31:10.720 --> 31:16.960
Right, and, you know, this is why it's probably easier on the phone than in person

31:16.960 --> 31:20.860
because you can disguise your voice easier.

31:21.680 --> 31:23.720
No one sees you physically what you're looking at.

31:23.780 --> 31:26.600
So in certain age brackets, certain age categories,

31:26.800 --> 31:29.840
you're going to be much more successful on the phone than you might be in person.

31:30.420 --> 31:33.700
It's going to be hard for you to come up with an excuse or a reason to say

31:33.700 --> 31:37.820
why you're trying to check yourself into an old folks home or something like that.

31:37.820 --> 31:40.500
And me, on the other hand, I might be able to get away with that.

31:41.100 --> 31:43.100
But, face man, maybe not so much.

31:44.640 --> 31:46.900
I'm very talented. I'm sure I could come up with a way.

31:47.020 --> 31:50.020
Well, maybe you could come in and, you know, do a juggling and singing act

31:50.020 --> 31:52.300
to entertain us old folks in our rocking chairs.

31:52.440 --> 31:54.140
But, you know, there's ways to get in there.

31:54.140 --> 32:01.420
But point being, you know, if you come up and you're claiming that you're the telephone system repair person

32:01.420 --> 32:07.780
with 20 years of experience but you're only, you know, 15, 17, 18 years old,

32:08.240 --> 32:10.120
people aren't going to really buy that as much.

32:10.200 --> 32:11.520
So it's going to be tougher for you.

32:11.580 --> 32:13.760
It's not impossible by any means, but it's going to be much,

32:14.160 --> 32:15.460
it's going to be a lot harder for you.

32:16.260 --> 32:17.780
So in person is very tough.

32:17.840 --> 32:19.480
And also, another thing about in person,

32:19.660 --> 32:23.660
and I'm going to mention this here instead of saving this for tips later because it fits,

32:23.660 --> 32:26.100
is you've got to play the part.

32:26.220 --> 32:27.180
You've got to be the part.

32:28.260 --> 32:31.140
And, I don't know, just because I said it earlier, let's use that example.

32:31.260 --> 32:33.100
If you do claim, if you're going into a,

32:33.160 --> 32:35.500
and, of course, we're not condoning or saying you should do any of these.

32:35.540 --> 32:38.520
These are examples for educational purposes only.

32:38.620 --> 32:41.740
But if you were, let's steal a scene out of the movie Hackers

32:41.740 --> 32:44.820
when serial killer goes in to repair the phone lines in the office.

32:45.660 --> 32:51.820
If you are going in to do something like that, you know, look the part and dress the part.

32:51.820 --> 32:55.180
You know, I know it's kind of funny, the movie Hackers in general,

32:55.320 --> 32:58.620
but he's got his hard hat on, he's got his tool belt on.

32:59.020 --> 33:00.520
That kind of helps sell it.

33:00.620 --> 33:03.960
Now, that particular guy still would never get away with that, truthfully.

33:04.000 --> 33:08.180
Not with those, that weird hairdo and the way of talking and that kind of thing.

33:08.840 --> 33:12.000
But, you know, do that, take those extra steps to be prepared

33:12.000 --> 33:14.660
and look the part and sound the part.

33:15.020 --> 33:18.240
If you're going in to try to sneak into a, I don't know,

33:18.240 --> 33:22.260
a convention filled with physicians and surgeons and stuff like that,

33:22.540 --> 33:25.460
you better go in and sound intelligent.

33:26.180 --> 33:28.060
You better go in and know some terminology.

33:29.380 --> 33:31.480
Don't, you can't go in and, oh my gosh,

33:31.520 --> 33:33.960
there's a gross picture of a liver on the wall and freak out.

33:34.060 --> 33:35.780
That's not, it's going to blow your cover.

33:35.940 --> 33:36.420
You know what I'm saying?

33:36.460 --> 33:40.240
You have to be able to look, act, and speak the part.

33:40.240 --> 33:42.280
And those are all things that you really need

33:42.280 --> 33:45.780
when you're doing any kind of in-person social engineering.

33:48.380 --> 33:50.680
Don't act surprised, use big words.

33:51.400 --> 33:52.520
If it calls for it.

33:52.560 --> 33:54.240
I have been in many cases where...

33:55.080 --> 33:55.800
If it calls for it.

33:55.840 --> 33:57.920
Yeah, in many cases where, believe it or not,

33:58.000 --> 34:00.140
you want to dumb yourself down.

34:00.260 --> 34:02.560
You don't want to sound intelligent.

34:02.660 --> 34:05.180
You want to come across very simplistic.

34:05.180 --> 34:07.920
Um, without getting too pervy,

34:08.120 --> 34:10.200
you know, if you were talking,

34:10.360 --> 34:11.160
believe it or not,

34:11.220 --> 34:12.920
you might want information from a child.

34:13.820 --> 34:15.720
Or, or a young person.

34:16.500 --> 34:18.320
Nah, not, don't get any weird pervy

34:18.320 --> 34:20.280
luring somebody in the car situation.

34:20.400 --> 34:21.500
I mean, you know,

34:21.740 --> 34:23.840
hey, what time does your mom get home from work?

34:23.920 --> 34:26.480
Or, what company does your dad work for?

34:26.520 --> 34:27.600
If you wanted to find that out

34:27.600 --> 34:29.840
for some godforsaken reason,

34:30.800 --> 34:32.720
you know, you're going to have to speak down

34:32.720 --> 34:34.540
to whatever your target audience is.

34:35.180 --> 34:38.060
Boy, that, I don't know,

34:38.140 --> 34:40.020
that whole, that whole children's analogy

34:40.020 --> 34:43.140
is really going to not sound very good on the air, is it?

34:43.360 --> 34:44.500
We're going to leave it in anyway.

34:46.300 --> 34:47.140
Well, it's...

34:47.140 --> 34:48.220
Want some candy, little girl?

34:48.260 --> 34:50.240
It's a viable means of getting information.

34:50.860 --> 34:51.560
Correct, correct.

34:51.660 --> 34:52.380
That's the point.

34:52.460 --> 34:56.000
It's kind of hard to come up with examples off the cuff, but...

34:56.000 --> 34:57.720
And, on the child point,

34:57.840 --> 34:58.900
come down to the child's level.

34:59.460 --> 34:59.820
Exactly.

35:00.000 --> 35:02.200
You know, squat down, eye to eye.

35:02.200 --> 35:05.860
You know, or you may be talking to someone

35:05.860 --> 35:08.240
who's not, doesn't have the same education that you do

35:08.240 --> 35:11.100
or doesn't have the experience that you do,

35:11.200 --> 35:11.840
things like that.

35:11.920 --> 35:14.780
So, yeah, whatever the audience calls for.

35:14.800 --> 35:15.940
And that's true of writing, too,

35:16.000 --> 35:17.140
but that's a whole other tangent.

35:17.440 --> 35:18.700
Always write for your audience.

35:19.120 --> 35:20.580
Always speak for your audience.

35:21.840 --> 35:24.500
And you might also want to dumb yourself down

35:24.500 --> 35:26.820
to get something explained to you.

35:26.820 --> 35:30.100
Yeah, and actually, hmm,

35:30.420 --> 35:32.000
I got a story here, if you want.

35:32.120 --> 35:33.060
I mean...

35:33.060 --> 35:33.860
Yeah, I used...

35:33.860 --> 35:36.960
Well, yeah, I guess I can...

35:36.960 --> 35:39.400
I'll just say it's a...

35:39.400 --> 35:42.960
This is a generic technique or an idea is...

35:42.960 --> 35:45.300
You know, one of the things that I had problems with

35:45.300 --> 35:47.200
with some hosting companies recently

35:47.200 --> 35:48.260
who shall remain nameless

35:48.260 --> 35:50.920
is that I will contact them

35:50.920 --> 35:53.700
and I like to think

35:53.700 --> 35:55.040
I'm pretty technically competent,

35:55.260 --> 35:57.160
at least to a certain extent.

35:58.020 --> 36:00.280
And one thing that bothers me

36:00.280 --> 36:00.980
more than anything

36:00.980 --> 36:03.360
is people that lie to me.

36:04.240 --> 36:05.820
You know, I know what I'm talking about,

36:05.900 --> 36:07.380
so if I tell you

36:07.380 --> 36:09.160
that this is the problem that's happening

36:09.160 --> 36:11.080
and it's most likely

36:11.080 --> 36:12.700
because of this, this, or this,

36:12.740 --> 36:13.540
I can narrow it down

36:13.540 --> 36:15.000
because I know what I'm talking about.

36:16.300 --> 36:17.520
I was in a situation

36:17.520 --> 36:18.760
with a recent hosting company

36:18.760 --> 36:20.000
who we no longer use

36:20.000 --> 36:21.900
and so one of the reasons

36:21.900 --> 36:23.040
we left this hosting company

36:23.040 --> 36:23.600
is because

36:23.600 --> 36:24.980
a couple of times

36:24.980 --> 36:25.760
I opened up tickets

36:25.760 --> 36:27.160
and their responses were just

36:27.160 --> 36:29.320
didn't make technical sense to me.

36:29.440 --> 36:29.720
I'm like,

36:29.800 --> 36:31.320
that doesn't really sound right.

36:32.300 --> 36:32.980
So finally,

36:33.120 --> 36:34.500
I decided to test them

36:34.500 --> 36:36.080
and I basically

36:36.080 --> 36:37.960
reported something

36:37.960 --> 36:39.240
that I knew completely

36:39.240 --> 36:40.280
what caused the problem.

36:40.460 --> 36:41.140
I knew how it worked.

36:41.220 --> 36:42.520
I knew every detail about it

36:42.520 --> 36:43.620
and I played dumb.

36:44.020 --> 36:45.660
I intentionally talked down

36:45.660 --> 36:46.940
even though I could have,

36:47.040 --> 36:47.920
even though I knew

36:47.920 --> 36:49.420
what the situation was

36:49.420 --> 36:50.420
and I knew I was talking

36:50.420 --> 36:51.160
to people that were

36:51.160 --> 36:52.700
supposedly technically competent,

36:53.120 --> 36:53.840
I kind of pulled

36:53.840 --> 36:54.840
the switcheroo on them

36:54.840 --> 36:56.340
and put them on the spot

36:56.340 --> 36:57.320
to see if they

36:57.320 --> 36:59.220
could actually speak up

36:59.220 --> 37:00.020
to my level.

37:00.780 --> 37:01.100
So,

37:01.860 --> 37:02.700
telling them,

37:02.860 --> 37:04.040
here's what the problem is,

37:04.360 --> 37:05.660
do you think it might be this,

37:05.780 --> 37:06.800
and listening to them

37:06.800 --> 37:07.460
lie to me

37:07.460 --> 37:08.540
or try to talk.

37:09.480 --> 37:10.960
If you're going to play the part,

37:11.260 --> 37:12.440
kind of what we were saying earlier,

37:12.640 --> 37:13.740
know what you're talking about,

37:13.800 --> 37:14.720
know the buzzwords,

37:15.400 --> 37:17.280
but realize that in some cases,

37:17.900 --> 37:18.960
you're going to get called out

37:18.960 --> 37:19.560
because of it.

37:19.900 --> 37:21.000
Somebody out there

37:21.000 --> 37:21.980
always is going to know

37:21.980 --> 37:22.580
more than you

37:22.580 --> 37:23.120
and if you,

37:24.160 --> 37:25.260
there's a phrase my father

37:25.260 --> 37:25.960
used to say to me

37:25.960 --> 37:26.620
when I was younger,

37:26.740 --> 37:27.320
he'd always say,

37:27.400 --> 37:29.000
you can't bullshit a bullshitter.

37:30.180 --> 37:30.540
So,

37:30.740 --> 37:31.380
if somebody knows

37:31.380 --> 37:32.160
what they're talking about

37:32.160 --> 37:33.500
and you try to social engineer them,

37:33.920 --> 37:34.860
you're going to hang yourself

37:34.860 --> 37:35.460
out to dry,

37:35.560 --> 37:36.640
you're going to get totally caught,

37:36.820 --> 37:37.700
so you might get yourself

37:37.700 --> 37:38.900
into an awkward situation.

37:39.940 --> 37:40.800
I guess that's the moral

37:40.800 --> 37:41.300
of the story.

37:42.200 --> 37:42.480
Well,

37:42.620 --> 37:43.380
along with the

37:43.380 --> 37:44.660
you can't bullshit a bullshitter,

37:46.360 --> 37:49.340
I kind of have a story

37:49.340 --> 37:50.680
that's not technically my own,

37:50.760 --> 37:51.600
but I'm going to take it

37:51.600 --> 37:52.100
as my own.

37:52.200 --> 37:52.520
Okay,

37:52.660 --> 37:53.100
go for it.

37:53.120 --> 37:53.940
Nobody will know the difference.

37:53.980 --> 37:54.620
I can't tell it from first person

37:54.620 --> 37:55.380
when it's really not.

37:55.700 --> 37:56.700
Nobody knows the difference.

37:56.760 --> 37:57.260
Go for it.

37:58.880 --> 37:59.240
Okay,

37:59.400 --> 37:59.580
so,

38:00.900 --> 38:02.040
I went,

38:02.320 --> 38:03.900
my mother made these cookies

38:03.900 --> 38:04.720
and I went in

38:04.720 --> 38:05.780
and got some

38:05.780 --> 38:05.960
and,

38:06.440 --> 38:06.640
you know,

38:06.680 --> 38:07.600
it's in the cookie jar

38:07.600 --> 38:08.420
that you're not supposed

38:08.420 --> 38:09.060
to come into

38:09.060 --> 38:09.520
and,

38:10.080 --> 38:10.440
you know,

38:10.440 --> 38:11.840
stay out of these cookies

38:11.840 --> 38:12.120
face,

38:12.200 --> 38:12.400
man.

38:13.780 --> 38:14.100
So,

38:14.200 --> 38:14.900
I get a cookie

38:14.900 --> 38:15.220
and,

38:15.320 --> 38:15.420
you know,

38:15.440 --> 38:16.060
it's real good.

38:16.640 --> 38:17.400
I come back

38:17.400 --> 38:18.420
and I get another cookie

38:18.420 --> 38:19.420
but I want a glass of milk

38:19.420 --> 38:19.900
this time.

38:21.020 --> 38:21.340
So,

38:21.640 --> 38:22.580
I get a cookie

38:22.580 --> 38:23.320
and a glass of milk.

38:23.980 --> 38:24.720
I come back

38:24.720 --> 38:25.480
the next night.

38:26.600 --> 38:27.100
Lo and behold,

38:27.180 --> 38:27.900
my sister's there

38:27.900 --> 38:28.560
getting a cookie

38:28.560 --> 38:29.940
when she's got

38:29.940 --> 38:30.580
a glass of milk.

38:31.080 --> 38:32.080
I come up to my sister

38:32.080 --> 38:32.620
and I say,

38:33.360 --> 38:33.880
cookies are good,

38:33.920 --> 38:34.200
aren't they?

38:34.740 --> 38:35.000
She says,

38:35.100 --> 38:35.480
yes.

38:36.020 --> 38:36.780
That's your second one,

38:36.840 --> 38:37.140
isn't it?

38:38.320 --> 38:38.680
Yes.

38:38.680 --> 38:38.760
Yes.

38:40.440 --> 38:40.720
So,

38:40.960 --> 38:41.560
that is

38:41.560 --> 38:43.360
kind of a story.

38:43.580 --> 38:43.700
So,

38:43.820 --> 38:44.560
pulling some extra

38:44.560 --> 38:45.460
information out of there.

38:45.520 --> 38:46.200
Once they're caught,

38:46.700 --> 38:47.640
you can kind of

38:47.640 --> 38:48.840
manipulate that situation.

38:50.140 --> 38:50.360
Yeah.

38:51.500 --> 38:51.900
Now,

38:53.100 --> 38:53.420
you know,

38:53.580 --> 38:54.480
phone and in-person

38:54.480 --> 38:55.720
are the two most,

38:56.460 --> 38:57.020
what I would say

38:57.020 --> 38:58.160
are the most successful

38:58.160 --> 38:58.900
and where you're going

38:58.900 --> 39:00.300
to get the most information

39:00.300 --> 39:01.260
and the most results.

39:01.740 --> 39:02.580
But there's other,

39:02.720 --> 39:03.040
again,

39:03.160 --> 39:03.540
forms,

39:03.660 --> 39:04.880
for lack of a better word,

39:04.920 --> 39:05.740
of social engineering

39:05.740 --> 39:06.080
or,

39:06.080 --> 39:07.640
I guess,

39:07.720 --> 39:08.020
medium.

39:08.400 --> 39:08.760
Yeah,

39:08.840 --> 39:09.460
I can't come up

39:09.460 --> 39:10.280
with a term for this,

39:10.380 --> 39:11.000
but another way

39:11.000 --> 39:12.180
to social engineer people,

39:12.240 --> 39:12.540
another way

39:12.540 --> 39:13.400
to approach people,

39:13.780 --> 39:15.380
and that's via mail

39:15.380 --> 39:15.900
or email.

39:17.580 --> 39:18.500
Which is commonly

39:18.500 --> 39:19.360
used for phishing.

39:19.740 --> 39:20.020
Yep.

39:20.140 --> 39:20.480
Actually,

39:20.540 --> 39:21.280
that's pretty much

39:21.280 --> 39:22.020
the heart of phishing,

39:22.120 --> 39:22.380
isn't it?

39:22.400 --> 39:22.740
I actually

39:22.740 --> 39:24.420
didn't even think,

39:24.540 --> 39:25.120
that word didn't even

39:25.120 --> 39:25.800
pop into my head,

39:25.860 --> 39:27.060
but it's absolutely phishing.

39:29.720 --> 39:30.120
But,

39:30.220 --> 39:31.800
it's not only for phishing.

39:31.920 --> 39:32.400
All the things

39:32.400 --> 39:33.020
we said earlier

39:33.020 --> 39:34.180
could apply just as well.

39:34.260 --> 39:35.180
If I were emailing,

39:35.300 --> 39:35.580
say,

39:35.580 --> 39:36.520
and again,

39:36.600 --> 39:37.260
this is what I mentioned

39:37.260 --> 39:38.320
earlier about in writing

39:38.320 --> 39:38.820
as well.

39:39.120 --> 39:40.100
Write to your audience.

39:40.320 --> 39:41.100
Speak to your audience.

39:41.300 --> 39:42.640
Write to whoever

39:42.640 --> 39:44.420
you intend

39:44.420 --> 39:45.600
to get information from.

39:45.940 --> 39:47.220
If I'm writing to a,

39:48.440 --> 39:49.260
for example,

39:49.400 --> 39:50.720
a chief security officer

39:50.720 --> 39:51.300
at a company,

39:51.840 --> 39:53.120
I've got to stay brief

39:53.120 --> 39:53.800
to the point.

39:53.920 --> 39:54.560
I'm not going to get

39:54.560 --> 39:55.500
into technical detail

39:55.500 --> 39:56.840
because it's probably

39:56.840 --> 39:57.700
going to confuse them.

39:59.400 --> 40:00.580
As opposed to writing

40:00.580 --> 40:02.060
an email to tech support

40:02.060 --> 40:03.120
where I might explain

40:03.120 --> 40:04.520
details about their server

40:04.520 --> 40:05.040
and give them

40:05.040 --> 40:05.660
an error message

40:05.660 --> 40:06.200
of the problem

40:06.200 --> 40:06.940
that I'm having

40:06.940 --> 40:08.580
and things like that.

40:09.280 --> 40:09.540
So,

40:09.700 --> 40:10.340
first of all,

40:10.600 --> 40:11.900
write towards your target.

40:12.000 --> 40:13.060
I think that's one technique

40:13.060 --> 40:14.080
to talk about in email.

40:15.440 --> 40:15.840
And,

40:15.980 --> 40:16.920
probably more along

40:16.920 --> 40:17.900
the lines of phishing,

40:18.640 --> 40:19.340
which is what you were

40:19.340 --> 40:20.160
talking about earlier,

40:20.300 --> 40:20.580
and I don't,

40:20.720 --> 40:22.540
I think this is,

40:23.860 --> 40:25.100
phishing is just

40:25.100 --> 40:27.340
using social engineering

40:27.340 --> 40:28.180
techniques for a

40:28.180 --> 40:29.100
nefarious purpose,

40:29.180 --> 40:29.680
unfortunately.

40:30.760 --> 40:31.020
Yeah.

40:31.020 --> 40:32.860
but that's not,

40:33.000 --> 40:33.920
you can also write

40:33.920 --> 40:35.000
phishing emails,

40:35.100 --> 40:35.460
I guess,

40:35.500 --> 40:36.260
to try to get

40:36.260 --> 40:37.100
other information

40:37.100 --> 40:37.760
out of people.

40:39.980 --> 40:40.880
But you can also

40:40.880 --> 40:41.840
phish through the phone

40:41.840 --> 40:42.700
or in person,

40:42.860 --> 40:43.140
so.

40:43.280 --> 40:43.900
And that's,

40:43.900 --> 40:44.660
that's true too,

40:44.740 --> 40:45.400
that's true too.

40:46.340 --> 40:47.560
For an example

40:47.560 --> 40:48.400
of phishing

40:48.400 --> 40:50.140
or social engineering

40:50.140 --> 40:50.720
would be email

40:50.720 --> 40:51.200
like,

40:52.540 --> 40:52.740
oh,

40:52.800 --> 40:53.060
I don't know,

40:53.120 --> 40:54.420
you find somebody

40:54.420 --> 40:55.440
on MySpace

40:55.440 --> 40:56.600
or something like that

40:56.600 --> 40:57.700
and you want to

40:57.700 --> 40:58.500
get more information

40:58.500 --> 40:59.140
from them,

40:59.280 --> 41:00.240
you can email them

41:00.240 --> 41:00.680
and say,

41:00.800 --> 41:00.940
hey,

41:01.040 --> 41:01.720
didn't you go

41:01.720 --> 41:03.380
to this high school?

41:03.480 --> 41:04.200
I think I remember

41:04.200 --> 41:05.140
you from high school.

41:05.260 --> 41:05.900
We had an English

41:05.900 --> 41:06.580
class together.

41:06.700 --> 41:07.160
What high school

41:07.160 --> 41:08.080
did you go to again?

41:09.060 --> 41:10.020
And you basically

41:10.020 --> 41:10.860
set them up

41:10.860 --> 41:12.160
for a familiar situation

41:12.160 --> 41:12.340
that,

41:12.460 --> 41:12.600
oh,

41:12.760 --> 41:12.960
hey,

41:13.020 --> 41:13.480
maybe this is

41:13.480 --> 41:13.940
somebody I went

41:13.940 --> 41:14.420
to school with.

41:14.500 --> 41:14.680
Yes,

41:14.740 --> 41:15.440
I went to

41:15.440 --> 41:16.580
George Washington

41:16.580 --> 41:17.560
High School

41:17.560 --> 41:18.600
or whatever it

41:18.600 --> 41:19.020
happens to be.

41:19.100 --> 41:20.300
You phished information

41:20.300 --> 41:20.660
out of them

41:20.660 --> 41:21.300
via email.

41:22.620 --> 41:23.020
Again,

41:23.080 --> 41:23.780
by applying some

41:23.780 --> 41:24.660
techniques and stuff

41:24.660 --> 41:26.900
that's been

41:26.900 --> 41:27.600
pretty successful

41:27.600 --> 41:28.360
for me in the past

41:28.360 --> 41:28.960
starting off

41:28.960 --> 41:30.360
with a false

41:30.360 --> 41:31.540
relationship.

41:31.740 --> 41:32.240
But we'll come back

41:32.240 --> 41:32.720
to that in some

41:32.720 --> 41:33.380
of the tips section.

41:33.580 --> 41:34.380
But you can phish

41:34.380 --> 41:35.120
for information

41:35.120 --> 41:36.760
that may or may not

41:36.760 --> 41:37.100
be,

41:37.940 --> 41:38.440
you don't always

41:38.440 --> 41:38.860
have to phish

41:38.860 --> 41:39.700
for credit cards

41:39.700 --> 41:40.700
or banking account

41:40.700 --> 41:41.420
or things like that.

41:41.460 --> 41:41.900
You can phish

41:41.900 --> 41:42.760
just for information.

41:43.620 --> 41:43.760
Now,

41:43.840 --> 41:44.340
that example,

41:44.440 --> 41:45.020
I don't know why

41:45.020 --> 41:45.740
I would care to know

41:45.740 --> 41:46.360
where they're going

41:46.360 --> 41:46.780
to high school

41:46.780 --> 41:47.520
or went to high school.

41:47.660 --> 41:48.100
Maybe I'm

41:48.100 --> 41:49.880
a nut job stalker.

41:49.980 --> 41:50.700
Maybe I'm

41:50.700 --> 41:51.960
trying to find people.

41:51.960 --> 41:52.480
It would develop

41:52.480 --> 41:53.460
a level of trust.

41:53.720 --> 41:53.920
Yeah,

41:53.920 --> 41:55.220
it may just be

41:55.220 --> 41:56.260
the first step

41:56.260 --> 41:57.600
in something bigger

41:57.600 --> 41:58.340
that I'm trying to get.

41:58.400 --> 41:58.980
Maybe I'm trying

41:58.980 --> 41:59.760
to become friends

41:59.760 --> 42:00.660
with this person

42:00.660 --> 42:02.340
or friends

42:02.340 --> 42:05.320
of another friend

42:05.320 --> 42:05.980
of this person

42:05.980 --> 42:06.680
and I'm just trying

42:06.680 --> 42:07.520
to step my way

42:07.520 --> 42:08.260
into the whole

42:08.260 --> 42:08.860
relationship.

42:09.980 --> 42:10.780
So there could be

42:10.780 --> 42:11.480
a lot of different

42:11.480 --> 42:12.220
reasons for it.

42:12.240 --> 42:13.200
I guess that will

42:13.200 --> 42:14.020
leave up to the listener

42:14.020 --> 42:14.920
whatever their reasons

42:14.920 --> 42:15.820
and motivations are.

42:16.300 --> 42:17.080
It's irrelevant,

42:17.260 --> 42:17.520
honestly.

42:18.200 --> 42:19.080
We're giving a lot

42:19.080 --> 42:19.800
of these explanations

42:19.800 --> 42:20.820
of why we would

42:20.820 --> 42:21.320
do things,

42:21.320 --> 42:22.180
but I think

42:22.180 --> 42:22.800
we should focus

42:22.800 --> 42:24.560
on the methods

42:24.560 --> 42:25.120
and techniques

42:25.120 --> 42:25.860
because the why

42:25.860 --> 42:26.320
is going to be

42:26.320 --> 42:28.120
on a case-by-case basis.

42:28.920 --> 42:29.200
Yes.

42:29.800 --> 42:30.540
So no more

42:30.540 --> 42:32.320
little girl references.

42:37.000 --> 42:37.680
So where do you

42:37.680 --> 42:38.220
want to go from there?

42:38.260 --> 42:38.680
Do you want to talk

42:38.680 --> 42:40.480
about anything else

42:40.480 --> 42:40.780
for email?

42:40.880 --> 42:41.300
Do you want to talk

42:41.300 --> 42:42.140
about some others?

42:42.140 --> 42:46.320
Well, with mail,

42:46.660 --> 42:47.660
just kind of a tip

42:47.660 --> 42:50.000
on that is anything

42:50.000 --> 42:50.980
notarized, people

42:50.980 --> 42:51.620
tend to believe.

42:52.780 --> 42:53.720
True, or printed

42:53.720 --> 42:54.540
on letterhead.

42:55.420 --> 42:55.720
Yeah.

42:56.100 --> 42:57.360
And even silly

42:57.360 --> 42:58.300
little things.

42:58.460 --> 42:58.880
And this, again,

42:58.980 --> 42:59.600
social engineering

42:59.600 --> 43:00.460
is sometimes about

43:00.460 --> 43:01.280
the little things.

43:02.380 --> 43:03.000
Printing something

43:03.000 --> 43:03.860
in color versus

43:03.860 --> 43:04.580
in black and white,

43:04.680 --> 43:05.300
believe it or not,

43:05.340 --> 43:05.840
makes a difference

43:05.840 --> 43:06.280
to people.

43:06.860 --> 43:07.580
People get something

43:07.580 --> 43:08.660
printed in black and white,

43:09.220 --> 43:10.620
it's so easy,

43:10.720 --> 43:11.320
so disposable,

43:11.320 --> 43:12.260
but if you print

43:12.260 --> 43:13.100
something in color,

43:13.320 --> 43:14.200
put a color logo

43:14.200 --> 43:14.740
at the top,

43:14.800 --> 43:15.600
letterhead at the top,

43:15.780 --> 43:16.940
it just looks

43:16.940 --> 43:18.140
and feels different

43:18.140 --> 43:18.980
to people.

43:20.120 --> 43:20.700
Now, there are

43:20.700 --> 43:21.560
different levels of that.

43:21.640 --> 43:22.100
You can make it

43:22.100 --> 43:22.820
look really good

43:22.820 --> 43:24.060
by notarizing it

43:24.060 --> 43:24.940
and things like that,

43:25.020 --> 43:27.540
but little things.

43:27.540 --> 43:27.980
But you want to

43:27.980 --> 43:28.800
stick to the level

43:28.800 --> 43:30.400
of what would fit

43:30.400 --> 43:30.940
with the letter

43:30.940 --> 43:31.340
you're writing.

43:31.760 --> 43:32.160
Right.

43:32.800 --> 43:33.240
Exactly.

43:35.400 --> 43:36.440
There's actually

43:36.440 --> 43:36.940
an interesting,

43:37.940 --> 43:38.280
I don't know,

43:38.320 --> 43:38.640
this kind of

43:38.640 --> 43:39.340
popped in my mind.

43:39.640 --> 43:40.480
Sometimes I'll get

43:40.480 --> 43:42.020
spam,

43:42.320 --> 43:43.160
not email spam,

43:43.260 --> 43:44.320
but just junk mail.

43:45.100 --> 43:45.700
And one of the things

43:45.700 --> 43:46.700
that I see sometimes

43:46.700 --> 43:47.580
in there is

43:47.580 --> 43:48.840
it's total junk

43:48.840 --> 43:49.800
wanting to sell me,

43:49.880 --> 43:50.380
wanting me to get

43:50.380 --> 43:51.160
a new credit card

43:51.160 --> 43:52.640
or wanting me

43:52.640 --> 43:53.420
to buy something

43:53.420 --> 43:53.920
or whatever.

43:54.340 --> 43:55.440
And when you open it,

43:55.780 --> 43:56.720
which I do sometimes

43:56.720 --> 43:57.380
because you can learn

43:57.380 --> 43:58.100
a lot from them,

43:58.720 --> 43:59.400
and one thing

43:59.400 --> 43:59.960
that I've noticed

43:59.960 --> 44:00.800
is a trend lately,

44:00.940 --> 44:01.360
and I don't know

44:01.360 --> 44:02.180
if you've seen this face,

44:02.280 --> 44:02.420
ma'am,

44:02.480 --> 44:03.520
or if any of the listeners

44:03.520 --> 44:04.720
probably have,

44:05.440 --> 44:07.020
is you open up

44:07.020 --> 44:07.940
the letter that's inside,

44:08.020 --> 44:08.440
and of course

44:08.440 --> 44:09.540
it's nothing but sales.

44:09.540 --> 44:10.200
Hey, you can get

44:10.200 --> 44:11.180
this great interest rate.

44:11.700 --> 44:12.300
But one thing

44:12.300 --> 44:13.300
I've noticed more common

44:13.300 --> 44:14.420
in the past year or two

44:14.420 --> 44:16.160
is a little post-it note

44:16.160 --> 44:17.180
stuck on there

44:17.180 --> 44:18.860
that's using,

44:19.000 --> 44:19.720
it's obviously

44:19.720 --> 44:21.300
not handwritten,

44:21.460 --> 44:21.920
but it's using

44:21.920 --> 44:22.920
a handwriting font

44:22.920 --> 44:24.320
to make it look like

44:24.320 --> 44:25.100
it was written by hand

44:25.100 --> 44:26.040
and posted on there

44:26.040 --> 44:26.920
to make it feel

44:26.920 --> 44:27.600
more personal.

44:28.640 --> 44:29.840
And that is a brilliant

44:29.840 --> 44:31.240
social engineering technique.

44:31.380 --> 44:32.300
It's a brilliant tactic

44:32.300 --> 44:34.000
that when you open it

44:34.000 --> 44:34.760
and you unfold it

44:34.760 --> 44:35.040
and you see,

44:35.160 --> 44:35.920
oh, it's a form letter

44:35.920 --> 44:36.660
they're trying to get me

44:36.660 --> 44:37.180
to take another

44:37.180 --> 44:38.220
freaking credit card,

44:38.220 --> 44:38.940
blah, blah, blah.

44:39.620 --> 44:40.660
But it's got

44:40.660 --> 44:41.860
this personalized note.

44:42.240 --> 44:42.540
Notice,

44:42.680 --> 44:43.440
this offer is

44:43.440 --> 44:44.420
specially for you

44:44.420 --> 44:45.000
because of your

44:45.000 --> 44:45.880
great credit rating.

44:45.980 --> 44:46.880
Respond immediately.

44:48.000 --> 44:48.640
And a post-it

44:48.640 --> 44:49.220
on top of there.

44:49.300 --> 44:49.920
Now, again,

44:49.960 --> 44:50.520
it's transparent

44:50.520 --> 44:51.160
to those of us

44:51.160 --> 44:51.880
with some intelligence.

44:52.420 --> 44:53.040
But sometimes

44:53.040 --> 44:54.160
that's the difference maker

44:54.160 --> 44:54.820
between people.

44:54.920 --> 44:55.240
They're like,

44:55.340 --> 44:55.700
wow,

44:55.980 --> 44:56.820
I can get this card

44:56.820 --> 44:57.400
because I have

44:57.400 --> 44:58.160
a good credit rating.

44:58.220 --> 44:58.940
Maybe I should go ahead

44:58.940 --> 44:59.600
and do it now

44:59.600 --> 45:00.380
while I've got the chance.

45:00.880 --> 45:02.660
They definitely work.

45:02.780 --> 45:03.300
These companies

45:03.300 --> 45:04.640
do huge studies

45:04.640 --> 45:07.280
on what works

45:07.280 --> 45:08.200
with advertising

45:08.200 --> 45:09.500
and there's so many

45:09.500 --> 45:10.760
social engineering techniques

45:10.760 --> 45:11.460
in advertising

45:11.460 --> 45:13.280
that it would blow your mind.

45:13.940 --> 45:15.340
So when you get junk mail,

45:15.940 --> 45:17.460
even phishing and spam,

45:17.580 --> 45:18.520
I know Savant and I

45:18.520 --> 45:19.260
a lot of times

45:19.260 --> 45:21.760
will trade phishing emails

45:21.760 --> 45:22.520
back and forth,

45:22.640 --> 45:23.360
do some analysis

45:23.360 --> 45:24.300
and some study on them

45:24.300 --> 45:25.200
because some of them

45:25.200 --> 45:27.260
are doing interesting techniques

45:27.260 --> 45:27.880
and things that are

45:27.880 --> 45:28.500
a little bit different

45:28.500 --> 45:29.160
that make you think,

45:29.280 --> 45:29.560
oh,

45:29.640 --> 45:30.620
that's clever

45:30.620 --> 45:31.920
the way they did that.

45:31.920 --> 45:32.580
That's interesting.

45:32.700 --> 45:33.660
They approached it differently.

45:33.800 --> 45:34.400
They didn't come out

45:34.400 --> 45:34.740
and say,

45:35.220 --> 45:35.440
oh,

45:35.500 --> 45:36.080
congratulations,

45:36.400 --> 45:36.900
you have won

45:36.900 --> 45:38.040
the Nigerian lottery.

45:38.220 --> 45:38.900
Please send me

45:38.900 --> 45:40.200
your credit card information.

45:40.900 --> 45:41.520
They're not always

45:41.520 --> 45:42.200
that transparent.

45:42.320 --> 45:42.660
Some of them

45:42.660 --> 45:43.180
come across

45:43.180 --> 45:43.760
and they're very,

45:43.880 --> 45:44.420
very clever.

45:45.560 --> 45:46.160
I mean,

45:46.220 --> 45:46.840
I win the lottery

45:46.840 --> 45:47.920
three or four times a day

45:47.920 --> 45:48.960
if my email was true.

45:50.500 --> 45:51.300
So they're not always

45:51.300 --> 45:51.680
that simple.

45:51.680 --> 45:52.560
I've won the British lottery

45:52.560 --> 45:53.700
at least five times today.

45:54.000 --> 45:54.500
Oh, yeah.

45:54.620 --> 45:54.860
No,

45:54.940 --> 45:55.720
you couldn't have won it

45:55.720 --> 45:56.200
five times

45:56.200 --> 45:56.860
because I've won it

45:56.860 --> 45:57.940
five times today.

45:58.580 --> 45:59.820
I guess we split it.

46:01.380 --> 46:01.740
Anyway,

46:01.920 --> 46:04.300
there's a lot of things

46:04.300 --> 46:05.980
and even the physical snail mail

46:05.980 --> 46:06.940
is even more to the point.

46:07.020 --> 46:08.260
They spend a lot of money

46:08.260 --> 46:09.260
sending that stuff out

46:09.260 --> 46:10.580
so they do studies

46:10.580 --> 46:11.560
and they know techniques

46:11.560 --> 46:11.960
that work.

46:12.060 --> 46:13.060
So you'll see a lot of things

46:13.060 --> 46:13.460
in there

46:13.460 --> 46:14.260
that you can actually

46:14.260 --> 46:15.560
kind of steal the idea.

46:16.300 --> 46:17.080
If you wanted to

46:17.080 --> 46:17.880
send something out

46:17.880 --> 46:19.020
and pretend it to be personal,

46:19.140 --> 46:20.260
try that little post-it idea.

46:20.340 --> 46:21.380
That's kind of a neat thing

46:21.380 --> 46:22.660
that a lot of people

46:22.660 --> 46:23.380
are going to fall for.

46:23.440 --> 46:23.900
It's going to make it

46:23.900 --> 46:24.620
a little bit different.

46:25.080 --> 46:26.040
The way you word things

46:26.040 --> 46:26.540
to people,

46:26.800 --> 46:28.040
what they put in bold

46:28.040 --> 46:28.680
is interesting.

46:28.680 --> 46:30.600
I've had a couple

46:30.600 --> 46:31.560
writing classes.

46:31.700 --> 46:32.440
I've taken a technical

46:32.440 --> 46:33.140
writing class

46:33.140 --> 46:33.560
and I've taken

46:33.560 --> 46:34.820
a business writing class

46:34.820 --> 46:36.160
and they absolutely

46:36.160 --> 46:37.660
teach you techniques

46:37.660 --> 46:39.000
of how to write things

46:39.000 --> 46:39.600
and how to use

46:39.600 --> 46:40.880
proper use of white space,

46:41.020 --> 46:42.400
quote unquote white space.

46:42.940 --> 46:44.280
The way you put things

46:44.280 --> 46:45.080
and lay things out

46:45.080 --> 46:45.540
in the paper,

46:45.680 --> 46:46.440
believe it or not.

46:47.140 --> 46:48.040
You're not going to put

46:48.040 --> 46:48.960
a bunch of narrative

46:48.960 --> 46:50.040
and just a bunch of text

46:50.040 --> 46:50.860
over and over

46:50.860 --> 46:51.800
and over and over again

46:51.800 --> 46:52.760
because people get bored

46:52.760 --> 46:53.740
and throw it away immediately.

46:54.420 --> 46:55.860
But you throw a paragraph

46:55.860 --> 46:56.600
of information

46:56.600 --> 46:57.520
and then put some

46:57.520 --> 46:58.520
bold bullet points.

46:58.640 --> 46:59.660
Bam, bam, bam.

47:00.000 --> 47:01.120
Kind of breaks things up

47:01.120 --> 47:01.920
and they get a summary,

47:02.040 --> 47:02.520
they get a bullet.

47:02.760 --> 47:03.220
Then you can put

47:03.220 --> 47:03.800
another paragraph

47:03.800 --> 47:04.400
of information,

47:04.520 --> 47:05.120
then a graphic

47:05.120 --> 47:06.260
with a seal of approval

47:06.260 --> 47:07.220
on the right hand side.

47:07.320 --> 47:08.360
You have great credit.

47:08.860 --> 47:09.740
And then another paragraph

47:09.740 --> 47:10.980
explaining what the offer is.

47:11.200 --> 47:12.220
Kind of break that up

47:12.220 --> 47:13.180
and scatter it around

47:13.180 --> 47:13.600
on the page

47:13.600 --> 47:14.200
in such a way

47:14.200 --> 47:14.820
as to make it

47:14.820 --> 47:15.740
visually appealing

47:15.740 --> 47:17.180
and try to get people

47:17.180 --> 47:18.040
to read past

47:18.040 --> 47:18.840
that first paragraph.

47:19.740 --> 47:20.580
So there are a lot

47:20.580 --> 47:21.660
of social engineering techniques

47:21.660 --> 47:22.720
that go into those.

47:23.740 --> 47:26.300
As well as it just being

47:26.300 --> 47:27.160
mail itself

47:27.160 --> 47:29.480
seems almost more official

47:29.480 --> 47:30.540
than, well,

47:30.600 --> 47:31.600
it would seem more official

47:31.600 --> 47:32.260
than an email.

47:32.600 --> 47:33.060
Oh, absolutely.

47:33.280 --> 47:34.080
Or, yeah.

47:34.420 --> 47:34.760
Yeah, no,

47:34.840 --> 47:35.940
that's a very good point.

47:39.740 --> 47:40.480
Actually, you know,

47:40.500 --> 47:40.940
there's one.

47:41.120 --> 47:42.460
I can't think of the company.

47:43.220 --> 47:44.640
I can't think of the company's name,

47:44.740 --> 47:46.620
but there's Internet

47:46.620 --> 47:49.380
Business Corporation.

47:49.600 --> 47:50.140
I don't know.

47:50.200 --> 47:51.680
It's some fake company.

47:51.680 --> 47:54.300
I get snail mail from

47:54.300 --> 47:55.900
that's basically a letter

47:55.900 --> 47:57.160
saying that your domains

47:57.160 --> 47:58.640
are expiring.

47:59.360 --> 48:00.880
You need to pay this much

48:00.880 --> 48:02.200
or you will have lost them

48:02.200 --> 48:04.000
but we can recover them.

48:04.520 --> 48:05.760
It's obviously fake BS.

48:05.860 --> 48:06.600
Anybody who knows

48:06.600 --> 48:07.520
and has registered sites

48:07.520 --> 48:08.460
knows that's not the way

48:08.460 --> 48:09.080
the system works.

48:09.160 --> 48:09.920
Nobody's going to mail you

48:09.920 --> 48:11.200
and say your site's already lost

48:11.200 --> 48:12.160
but we can recover it.

48:12.660 --> 48:14.080
No, it's not the way it works.

48:14.720 --> 48:15.080
However,

48:15.200 --> 48:15.920
because you get it

48:15.920 --> 48:17.200
in physical mail,

48:17.400 --> 48:18.080
it makes you go,

48:18.160 --> 48:18.520
wait a minute.

48:18.520 --> 48:20.020
Did I miss an email?

48:20.180 --> 48:21.540
Did my spam filter catch something?

48:21.640 --> 48:22.200
Is this real?

48:22.260 --> 48:22.820
Oh my goodness.

48:22.920 --> 48:23.940
Here's a check for $40.

48:24.300 --> 48:25.040
Save it for me.

48:26.000 --> 48:27.800
It's absolutely

48:27.800 --> 48:28.820
what Faceman says.

48:28.880 --> 48:29.620
It's absolutely different

48:29.620 --> 48:30.300
getting something

48:30.300 --> 48:31.340
in the mail

48:31.340 --> 48:32.920
versus through email.

48:32.920 --> 48:36.960
Well, along the domain

48:36.960 --> 48:37.960
at expiration

48:37.960 --> 48:39.620
when I first got

48:39.620 --> 48:40.340
my domain

48:40.340 --> 48:43.100
which will remain nameless

48:43.100 --> 48:45.940
about a week

48:45.940 --> 48:46.660
after I got it.

48:46.660 --> 48:47.020
Come on.

48:47.080 --> 48:47.820
We all know

48:47.820 --> 48:49.460
it's ilovethecock.com

48:49.460 --> 48:51.060
You don't have

48:51.060 --> 48:51.640
to be embarrassed.

48:52.380 --> 48:52.760
You don't have

48:52.760 --> 48:53.340
to be embarrassed.

48:53.500 --> 48:54.000
You can be open.

48:54.520 --> 48:54.920
Oh, okay.

48:55.000 --> 48:55.320
I'm sorry.

48:55.380 --> 48:55.740
Dot org.

48:55.780 --> 48:56.240
You got it.

48:57.740 --> 48:58.300
You know,

48:58.380 --> 48:59.680
the first sex domain.

48:59.840 --> 49:00.360
Dot orgy.

49:00.780 --> 49:01.500
Dot orgy.

49:01.500 --> 49:03.600
Or dot org

49:03.600 --> 49:04.480
if you listen to

49:04.480 --> 49:05.040
Black Ratchet.

49:06.880 --> 49:07.400
Anyway.

49:08.500 --> 49:09.020
Anyways.

49:09.260 --> 49:09.740
Dot org.

49:09.820 --> 49:10.000
You know,

49:10.080 --> 49:11.180
this is my first

49:11.180 --> 49:12.120
real experiment

49:12.120 --> 49:15.160
with domains.

49:15.500 --> 49:15.980
I'd never

49:15.980 --> 49:16.840
done anything

49:16.840 --> 49:17.500
with them before

49:17.500 --> 49:18.600
and I get this letter

49:18.600 --> 49:19.040
in the mail

49:19.040 --> 49:20.720
saying that

49:20.720 --> 49:22.120
I owed 80 bucks

49:22.120 --> 49:23.540
to protect my domain

49:23.540 --> 49:24.900
which

49:24.900 --> 49:26.860
and they have

49:26.860 --> 49:27.880
the name of the company

49:27.880 --> 49:28.660
that I used

49:28.660 --> 49:29.820
to register it with

49:29.820 --> 49:30.820
and

49:30.820 --> 49:31.100
Well,

49:31.140 --> 49:31.500
they're the ones

49:31.500 --> 49:32.060
that sold it

49:32.060 --> 49:32.360
to them

49:32.360 --> 49:32.860
probably.

49:34.320 --> 49:35.080
Especially if it was

49:35.080 --> 49:35.520
GoDaddy.

49:36.020 --> 49:36.420
Anyway.

49:38.220 --> 49:39.100
Fucking bastards.

49:39.100 --> 49:39.780
It wasn't GoDaddy.

49:40.180 --> 49:40.500
Okay.

49:40.620 --> 49:41.640
I still hate them.

49:41.840 --> 49:42.020
Anyway,

49:42.120 --> 49:42.420
go on.

49:43.240 --> 49:43.460
Yeah.

49:43.660 --> 49:43.880
Well,

49:44.140 --> 49:44.360
I mean,

49:44.400 --> 49:45.340
this is my first time.

49:45.520 --> 49:46.640
It scared me

49:46.640 --> 49:47.320
to make me think

49:47.320 --> 49:47.580
that,

49:47.740 --> 49:47.840
hey,

49:47.900 --> 49:48.980
I have this 80 bucks

49:48.980 --> 49:50.440
that I missed

49:50.440 --> 49:51.220
something here.

49:51.940 --> 49:52.220
You know,

49:52.620 --> 49:53.660
who's trying to

49:53.660 --> 49:54.520
cheat me out of my money?

49:54.520 --> 49:55.860
You know,

49:55.920 --> 49:56.620
these guys have

49:56.620 --> 49:57.740
credit card information

49:57.740 --> 49:58.260
for when

49:58.260 --> 50:00.500
to pay for hosting

50:00.500 --> 50:00.840
and

50:00.840 --> 50:02.460
the original

50:02.460 --> 50:04.000
registration

50:04.000 --> 50:04.780
of the domain.

50:05.880 --> 50:06.520
It's like,

50:06.640 --> 50:06.900
hey,

50:07.020 --> 50:07.460
are they going to

50:07.460 --> 50:08.180
just take this?

50:08.780 --> 50:09.220
Right,

50:09.320 --> 50:09.680
right.

50:10.800 --> 50:11.200
Well,

50:11.360 --> 50:11.560
and,

50:11.640 --> 50:11.900
you know,

50:12.040 --> 50:12.900
and the same thing,

50:13.020 --> 50:14.040
it's vice versa too.

50:14.140 --> 50:14.880
Some things are better

50:14.880 --> 50:15.820
sent via email

50:15.820 --> 50:16.580
than snail mail.

50:17.540 --> 50:17.720
So,

50:17.800 --> 50:18.140
if you get,

50:18.240 --> 50:18.360
you know,

50:18.420 --> 50:18.820
for example,

50:19.160 --> 50:19.800
believe it or not,

50:19.800 --> 50:20.720
I know we all laugh

50:20.720 --> 50:21.940
and joke at the lottery

50:21.940 --> 50:22.920
and stuff like that,

50:23.400 --> 50:23.680
but,

50:23.760 --> 50:25.200
I don't know,

50:25.240 --> 50:25.680
if you got

50:25.680 --> 50:27.000
a pyramid scheme

50:27.000 --> 50:27.980
letter in the

50:27.980 --> 50:29.260
snail mail,

50:29.580 --> 50:30.820
it might be more

50:30.820 --> 50:31.920
transparent than it is

50:31.920 --> 50:32.320
in email

50:32.320 --> 50:32.960
because they can

50:32.960 --> 50:33.780
phrase it in the email

50:33.780 --> 50:34.540
to make it sound like

50:34.540 --> 50:35.780
it's a new technology

50:35.780 --> 50:36.500
or something that's

50:36.500 --> 50:36.860
different

50:36.860 --> 50:38.660
and you might fall

50:38.660 --> 50:39.200
for it a little bit

50:39.200 --> 50:40.260
easier than you would

50:40.260 --> 50:41.120
if it were snail mailed.

50:41.240 --> 50:41.620
You'd be like,

50:41.700 --> 50:41.800
oh,

50:41.860 --> 50:42.140
wait a minute,

50:42.200 --> 50:42.920
this is that same

50:42.920 --> 50:44.280
old Amway crap

50:44.280 --> 50:44.760
or whatever

50:44.760 --> 50:45.880
from,

50:46.000 --> 50:46.320
you know,

50:46.420 --> 50:47.060
years and years

50:47.060 --> 50:47.400
and years,

50:47.480 --> 50:48.500
these old pyramid schemes.

50:48.720 --> 50:48.940
So,

50:49.800 --> 50:50.360
again,

50:50.920 --> 50:51.700
your choice

50:51.700 --> 50:52.180
of what you're

50:52.180 --> 50:52.740
trying to do

50:52.740 --> 50:53.660
is the best medium

50:53.660 --> 50:54.040
for it

50:54.040 --> 50:54.560
and we probably

50:54.560 --> 50:55.260
ought to pick up

50:55.260 --> 50:55.840
a little bit

50:55.840 --> 50:57.100
and go through these.

50:57.180 --> 50:57.820
I think the only

50:57.820 --> 50:58.420
other thing worth

50:58.420 --> 50:59.100
mentioning was

50:59.100 --> 51:00.200
maybe text messages

51:00.200 --> 51:00.760
or,

51:01.440 --> 51:01.680
I don't know,

51:01.720 --> 51:02.060
would you throw

51:02.060 --> 51:02.760
instant messages

51:02.760 --> 51:03.600
in here as well

51:03.600 --> 51:03.860
or?

51:06.280 --> 51:06.720
Well,

51:06.980 --> 51:07.620
I might throw

51:07.620 --> 51:08.460
in instant messages

51:08.460 --> 51:11.480
but mainly

51:11.480 --> 51:12.240
text messaging

51:12.240 --> 51:13.520
but mainly

51:13.520 --> 51:14.260
as another

51:14.260 --> 51:15.320
form of communication

51:15.320 --> 51:16.840
for something

51:16.840 --> 51:17.380
that you've

51:17.380 --> 51:18.140
already started

51:18.140 --> 51:19.820
if you were

51:19.820 --> 51:20.760
to send

51:20.760 --> 51:21.080
an email

51:21.080 --> 51:21.460
to someone

51:21.460 --> 51:22.200
on MySpace,

51:22.440 --> 51:22.680
you know,

51:22.720 --> 51:23.260
get their

51:23.260 --> 51:24.400
cell phone number

51:24.400 --> 51:25.140
and start text

51:25.140 --> 51:25.960
messaging them

51:25.960 --> 51:26.940
and just kind of

51:26.940 --> 51:27.600
to build on

51:27.600 --> 51:28.140
what you've done

51:28.140 --> 51:28.660
already

51:28.660 --> 51:29.860
but it could be

51:29.860 --> 51:30.660
used as a

51:30.660 --> 51:32.540
social engineering

51:32.540 --> 51:33.160
of its own.

51:33.160 --> 51:34.660
Right.

51:34.880 --> 51:35.040
Well,

51:35.140 --> 51:35.560
and you know,

51:35.680 --> 51:36.720
the way some

51:36.720 --> 51:37.360
text messaging

51:37.360 --> 51:37.960
is set up,

51:38.060 --> 51:38.300
you know,

51:38.420 --> 51:39.100
you can send

51:39.100 --> 51:39.740
a text message

51:39.740 --> 51:40.220
to somebody's

51:40.220 --> 51:40.800
phone directly

51:40.800 --> 51:41.420
by sending it

51:41.420 --> 51:41.880
to their phone

51:41.880 --> 51:42.580
number at

51:42.580 --> 51:44.440
Verizon Mail

51:44.440 --> 51:45.560
or Verizon Wireless

51:45.560 --> 51:46.460
dot whatever,

51:46.880 --> 51:47.740
you know what I'm

51:47.740 --> 51:48.260
talking about.

51:48.740 --> 51:48.900
Yeah.

51:49.060 --> 51:49.540
And if somebody

51:49.540 --> 51:50.420
got a text message

51:50.420 --> 51:51.460
saying your bill

51:51.460 --> 51:51.940
is due,

51:52.140 --> 51:53.820
please send back

51:53.820 --> 51:54.520
your phone number,

51:54.560 --> 51:55.020
a lot of people

51:55.020 --> 51:55.760
won't pay attention

51:55.760 --> 51:56.560
or realize because

51:56.560 --> 51:57.080
they're not used

51:57.080 --> 51:57.820
to such a thing

51:57.820 --> 51:59.100
and I'm surprised

51:59.100 --> 51:59.700
there's really not

51:59.700 --> 52:00.580
a lot more

52:00.580 --> 52:01.840
of that type

52:01.840 --> 52:02.260
of phishing

52:02.260 --> 52:02.800
going on

52:02.800 --> 52:03.300
to be honest

52:03.300 --> 52:03.580
with you.

52:03.640 --> 52:04.380
I'm sure it's

52:04.380 --> 52:05.520
happening but

52:05.520 --> 52:06.080
I'm surprised

52:06.080 --> 52:06.620
we haven't heard

52:06.620 --> 52:07.320
some big,

52:07.460 --> 52:08.200
big news about

52:08.200 --> 52:08.740
something like

52:08.740 --> 52:09.740
that by now

52:09.740 --> 52:11.400
or if there has

52:11.400 --> 52:11.860
been maybe I

52:11.860 --> 52:12.260
just haven't

52:12.260 --> 52:12.760
heard it myself.

52:12.960 --> 52:13.160
If anybody

52:13.160 --> 52:14.360
knows any good

52:14.360 --> 52:15.060
stories of that

52:15.060 --> 52:15.500
I would love

52:15.500 --> 52:15.900
to hear them

52:15.900 --> 52:16.420
because I'm

52:16.420 --> 52:17.020
surprised that's

52:17.020 --> 52:17.480
not something

52:17.480 --> 52:17.980
that's much,

52:18.120 --> 52:18.480
much more

52:18.480 --> 52:18.860
prominent,

52:18.960 --> 52:19.380
people getting

52:19.380 --> 52:20.520
phished via

52:20.520 --> 52:21.140
text messages

52:21.140 --> 52:21.860
on their phones.

52:23.460 --> 52:23.620
Yeah.

52:23.960 --> 52:25.040
And when I put

52:25.040 --> 52:25.960
text messaging on

52:25.960 --> 52:27.240
here I have

52:27.240 --> 52:28.340
never heard of

52:28.340 --> 52:29.000
anyone being

52:29.000 --> 52:29.800
social engineered

52:29.800 --> 52:30.500
through a text

52:30.500 --> 52:31.220
message or

52:31.220 --> 52:32.320
any type of

52:32.320 --> 52:32.740
phishing or

52:32.740 --> 52:33.140
anything through

52:33.140 --> 52:33.720
a text message

52:33.720 --> 52:34.080
but I was

52:34.080 --> 52:34.440
thinking of

52:34.440 --> 52:34.700
the different

52:34.700 --> 52:35.180
forms of

52:35.180 --> 52:35.760
communication

52:35.760 --> 52:36.880
because any

52:36.880 --> 52:37.220
form of

52:37.220 --> 52:38.000
communication can

52:38.000 --> 52:38.460
be used for

52:38.460 --> 52:39.120
social engineering.

52:40.040 --> 52:40.820
Right, right.

52:40.980 --> 52:41.320
And you know

52:41.320 --> 52:42.840
sometimes it's

52:42.840 --> 52:43.380
once again you

52:43.380 --> 52:44.020
want one small

52:44.020 --> 52:44.500
tidbit of

52:44.500 --> 52:45.200
information or

52:45.200 --> 52:45.840
something like

52:45.840 --> 52:48.020
I don't know

52:48.020 --> 52:48.900
you may want

52:48.900 --> 52:51.020
to get back

52:51.020 --> 52:54.020
a, oh my

52:54.020 --> 52:54.700
gosh, trying to

52:54.700 --> 52:55.000
think of an

52:55.000 --> 52:55.800
example off the

52:55.800 --> 52:56.280
cuff here.

52:56.840 --> 52:57.760
You might email

52:57.760 --> 52:58.600
somebody blindly

52:58.600 --> 52:59.400
not knowing who

52:59.400 --> 53:00.200
their name is.

53:01.400 --> 53:02.060
Let's say you

53:02.060 --> 53:02.720
found a phone

53:02.720 --> 53:03.200
number, somebody

53:03.200 --> 53:03.760
posted it in

53:03.760 --> 53:04.560
the forums or

53:04.560 --> 53:05.120
somebody on a

53:05.120 --> 53:05.880
website somewhere

53:05.880 --> 53:07.060
that they thought

53:07.060 --> 53:07.920
was interesting or

53:07.920 --> 53:08.340
they thought it

53:08.340 --> 53:09.160
was somebody famous

53:09.160 --> 53:09.860
or they thought it

53:09.860 --> 53:10.380
was, I don't

53:10.380 --> 53:11.200
know, any number

53:11.200 --> 53:11.720
of things.

53:12.360 --> 53:13.060
Sending it, you

53:13.060 --> 53:13.760
know, calling it,

53:13.940 --> 53:14.360
they might not

53:14.360 --> 53:15.680
answer it, you

53:15.680 --> 53:17.320
know, but if you

53:17.320 --> 53:17.960
were to send a text

53:17.960 --> 53:18.720
message to it

53:18.720 --> 53:20.060
saying, hey, is

53:20.060 --> 53:20.820
this Mary?

53:21.540 --> 53:23.080
Well, if it's, you

53:23.080 --> 53:23.660
know, make up an

53:23.660 --> 53:24.460
arbitrary name that's

53:24.460 --> 53:25.060
more than likely

53:25.060 --> 53:25.740
wrong because you're

53:25.740 --> 53:26.440
blindly guessing.

53:26.440 --> 53:27.380
But they may

53:27.380 --> 53:28.420
respond back going,

53:28.880 --> 53:30.520
no, this is Sue or

53:30.520 --> 53:31.480
this is whatever.

53:31.700 --> 53:32.320
You have the wrong

53:32.320 --> 53:32.960
number or something

53:32.960 --> 53:33.460
like that.

53:33.740 --> 53:34.340
But you've gotten

53:34.340 --> 53:35.060
the response back,

53:35.120 --> 53:35.580
you've gotten some

53:35.580 --> 53:36.280
information you didn't

53:36.280 --> 53:36.900
have before.

53:37.380 --> 53:39.320
So, I mean, any type

53:39.320 --> 53:40.220
of medium that we've

53:40.220 --> 53:41.240
talked about, all these

53:41.240 --> 53:42.120
different things, and I'm

53:42.120 --> 53:42.720
sure there's some we've

53:42.720 --> 53:43.320
forgotten too.

53:43.400 --> 53:44.240
Instant messaging once

53:44.240 --> 53:46.980
again, lots of things.

53:47.140 --> 53:48.060
You can get a lot of

53:48.060 --> 53:49.020
information through any

53:49.020 --> 53:49.580
of these different

53:49.580 --> 53:49.900
forums.

53:50.120 --> 53:51.140
It's just a matter of

53:51.140 --> 53:51.720
sitting back and

53:51.720 --> 53:52.780
thinking, how could you,

53:52.780 --> 53:55.340
what can you use about

53:55.340 --> 53:56.340
these different mediums,

53:56.360 --> 53:58.240
these different points of

53:58.240 --> 53:59.040
attack or whatever?

53:59.280 --> 54:00.180
Again, once again, this

54:00.180 --> 54:01.380
is like a hard word to

54:01.380 --> 54:02.700
define these things is

54:02.700 --> 54:04.780
what would be the best

54:04.780 --> 54:06.240
thing depending on what

54:06.240 --> 54:07.020
your goal is?

54:07.200 --> 54:07.960
Would it be better for

54:07.960 --> 54:08.800
you to dress up and

54:08.800 --> 54:10.220
show up at the store in

54:10.220 --> 54:10.500
person?

54:10.640 --> 54:11.400
Would it be better for

54:11.400 --> 54:14.160
you to send an email or

54:14.160 --> 54:15.640
snail mail or text message

54:15.640 --> 54:16.740
or call, et cetera, et

54:16.740 --> 54:16.900
cetera?

54:17.020 --> 54:17.400
So, whatever.

54:17.520 --> 54:18.160
It's kind of the right

54:18.160 --> 54:20.140
tool for the job sort of

54:20.140 --> 54:20.440
thing.

54:22.400 --> 54:22.760
Absolutely.

54:23.420 --> 54:24.240
And I think we should

54:24.240 --> 54:25.400
probably burn through

54:25.400 --> 54:26.860
some of these techniques

54:26.860 --> 54:27.700
we've already talked

54:27.700 --> 54:29.540
about before, but we're

54:29.540 --> 54:30.560
kind of starting to run

54:30.560 --> 54:32.280
long because I just keep

54:32.280 --> 54:33.420
talking and can't shut

54:33.420 --> 54:33.620
up.

54:33.740 --> 54:34.800
So, I'm going to try to

54:34.800 --> 54:35.660
speed up and talk about

54:35.660 --> 54:36.540
some of these techniques.

54:36.720 --> 54:38.260
And the first one is what

54:38.260 --> 54:39.520
we started off talking

54:39.520 --> 54:41.080
about at the top of the

54:41.080 --> 54:42.020
show talking about, and

54:42.020 --> 54:42.760
that is lying.

54:43.440 --> 54:44.680
And I, as much as you,

54:44.820 --> 54:45.740
you know, we have to be

54:45.740 --> 54:46.700
honest and say that lying

54:46.700 --> 54:47.780
is certainly a technique in

54:47.780 --> 54:48.480
social engineering.

54:49.600 --> 54:51.980
Yes, and most likely the

54:51.980 --> 54:53.740
most common technique.

54:54.360 --> 54:54.680
Probably.

54:54.760 --> 54:56.280
Because it's just so easy.

54:57.220 --> 54:58.640
Yeah, and it is.

54:58.700 --> 54:59.420
And that's why so many

54:59.420 --> 55:01.480
people, you know, think

55:01.480 --> 55:01.940
that they're a great

55:01.940 --> 55:02.820
social engineer because

55:02.820 --> 55:03.680
they can call up and lie

55:03.680 --> 55:04.160
to somebody.

55:04.860 --> 55:06.040
And, yes, most prominent.

55:06.240 --> 55:07.600
And, hell, I might even go

55:07.600 --> 55:08.340
so far as to say it's the

55:08.340 --> 55:08.980
most successful.

55:09.980 --> 55:11.940
You know, but, it's

55:11.940 --> 55:12.720
certainly not the end

55:12.720 --> 55:13.360
all and be all.

55:13.560 --> 55:14.760
And, even though it may

55:14.760 --> 55:15.860
have the highest success

55:15.860 --> 55:17.160
rate, it's still a small

55:17.160 --> 55:18.200
overall proportion to

55:18.200 --> 55:18.900
social engineering.

55:19.280 --> 55:20.760
It's definitely easier to

55:20.760 --> 55:21.760
lie on the phone than it

55:21.760 --> 55:23.040
is face to face in real

55:23.040 --> 55:23.360
life.

55:24.780 --> 55:25.700
Definitely tougher to do

55:25.700 --> 55:26.380
that because people can

55:26.380 --> 55:27.320
look into your eyes and

55:27.320 --> 55:27.780
you can feel.

55:27.900 --> 55:30.800
I like to think, I'm not

55:30.800 --> 55:31.760
going to say I'm an expert

55:31.760 --> 55:32.820
social engineer, but I

55:32.820 --> 55:33.500
like to think I'm pretty

55:33.500 --> 55:34.360
good at reading people,

55:34.940 --> 55:36.200
body language, and the

55:36.200 --> 55:37.060
way they look at me, and

55:37.060 --> 55:37.760
the way they talk,

55:37.760 --> 55:38.480
averting your eyes.

55:38.520 --> 55:39.080
A lot of people have

55:39.080 --> 55:39.940
heard those old stories

55:39.940 --> 55:41.640
about you tell if someone's

55:41.640 --> 55:42.740
lying because they'll look

55:42.740 --> 55:43.820
away from you, they can't

55:43.820 --> 55:46.460
maintain eye contact, they

55:46.460 --> 55:47.900
will move their fingers or

55:47.900 --> 55:48.920
their hands, clench their

55:48.920 --> 55:49.940
fists, things like that.

55:50.020 --> 55:52.260
The giveaways, these poker

55:52.260 --> 55:54.160
tells, if you will, you know,

55:54.240 --> 55:55.380
and social engineering is

55:55.380 --> 55:56.240
certainly a part of poker

55:56.240 --> 55:59.200
as well, that will give you

55:59.200 --> 55:59.600
away.

55:59.780 --> 56:00.580
So, lying is definitely

56:00.580 --> 56:01.880
something that is only

56:01.880 --> 56:02.940
going to work better in

56:02.940 --> 56:04.440
non-face-to-face

56:04.440 --> 56:06.060
situations, mail, phone,

56:06.160 --> 56:06.440
etc.

56:07.760 --> 56:08.840
And if you watch

56:08.840 --> 56:10.920
enough of the cop shows

56:10.920 --> 56:12.800
on TV, they'll talk

56:12.800 --> 56:14.700
about the direction your

56:14.700 --> 56:16.400
eyes go when you look

56:16.400 --> 56:18.140
away, tells, you know,

56:18.160 --> 56:18.940
like if you look down at

56:18.940 --> 56:19.920
the left, you're accessing

56:19.920 --> 56:22.040
memory, and if you look up

56:22.040 --> 56:22.740
and to the right or

56:22.740 --> 56:23.800
something, you're accessing

56:23.800 --> 56:25.600
your creative portion of

56:25.600 --> 56:26.040
your brain.

56:26.900 --> 56:29.500
And while the TV may not

56:29.500 --> 56:30.460
get that right all the

56:30.460 --> 56:32.080
time, that is true that

56:32.080 --> 56:33.860
you can look at the way

56:33.860 --> 56:35.660
your eye moves and see

56:35.660 --> 56:36.360
that type of stuff.

56:36.360 --> 56:37.980
Yeah, there have been

56:37.980 --> 56:39.000
studies on that sort of

56:39.000 --> 56:39.240
thing.

56:39.320 --> 56:40.200
I'm not sure how much

56:40.200 --> 56:41.980
validity I put into those,

56:42.100 --> 56:43.320
but there's definitely

56:43.320 --> 56:44.320
some studies that are put

56:44.320 --> 56:45.340
into it that show some

56:45.340 --> 56:46.120
sort of patterns.

56:47.000 --> 56:47.920
But you know what, the

56:47.920 --> 56:49.520
thing about lying, though,

56:49.600 --> 56:51.520
is that, you know, I don't

56:51.520 --> 56:52.240
want to harp on it too

56:52.240 --> 56:53.160
much, but that becomes a

56:53.160 --> 56:53.920
moral dilemma.

56:54.040 --> 56:55.020
That becomes a moral issue

56:55.020 --> 56:55.900
at this point, too.

56:55.900 --> 56:58.860
Because, you know, one of

56:58.860 --> 56:59.760
the things that I try to

56:59.760 --> 57:01.220
teach, and I've got an

57:01.220 --> 57:02.080
article that I've written

57:02.080 --> 57:03.120
and haven't released yet,

57:03.640 --> 57:05.020
called Social Engineering

57:05.020 --> 57:07.400
While Maintaining Integrity.

57:08.100 --> 57:09.340
And it's basically about

57:09.340 --> 57:10.420
social engineering without

57:10.420 --> 57:11.040
lying.

57:11.600 --> 57:12.960
You don't have to lie.

57:13.360 --> 57:14.440
You can get a lot of great

57:14.440 --> 57:16.640
information by using a lot

57:16.640 --> 57:17.860
of these other techniques

57:17.860 --> 57:19.720
that are not necessarily

57:19.720 --> 57:20.280
lying.

57:20.280 --> 57:22.900
Now, I know Rax would give

57:22.900 --> 57:23.800
me a hard time with this

57:23.800 --> 57:25.960
and say that, yeah, but

57:25.960 --> 57:28.040
you might as well be lying.

57:28.180 --> 57:29.600
Or, yeah, but you're still

57:29.600 --> 57:31.080
manipulating someone, you're

57:31.080 --> 57:33.580
still alleging something

57:33.580 --> 57:34.700
differently, you're still

57:34.700 --> 57:36.320
avoiding something, but

57:36.320 --> 57:37.760
you're not, it's a little

57:37.760 --> 57:38.860
bit different to out and

57:38.860 --> 57:39.220
out lie.

57:39.300 --> 57:41.400
Maybe it's a technicality to

57:41.400 --> 57:42.720
not directly lie to somebody,

57:42.860 --> 57:43.440
but there's certainly

57:43.440 --> 57:44.480
something to be said for

57:44.480 --> 57:45.900
trying not to anyway.

57:46.500 --> 57:47.860
You don't necessarily have

57:47.860 --> 57:49.140
to sell your soul to be a

57:49.140 --> 57:49.840
social engineer.

57:51.280 --> 57:52.720
Well, as Rax would put it,

57:53.320 --> 57:54.380
lying by omission.

57:55.020 --> 57:56.680
I don't necessarily agree

57:56.680 --> 58:00.320
that you do have to lie

58:00.320 --> 58:01.980
even by omission, that

58:01.980 --> 58:03.280
some of these different

58:03.280 --> 58:04.860
things can easily be used

58:04.860 --> 58:05.720
in social engineering,

58:06.320 --> 58:07.660
whether it be to get

58:07.660 --> 58:09.500
information or to just

58:09.500 --> 58:10.680
make a conversation easier.

58:11.440 --> 58:12.620
Yeah, well, and you know,

58:12.680 --> 58:13.800
something can be said for,

58:13.900 --> 58:14.700
believe it or not, it's a

58:14.700 --> 58:15.980
social engineering technique

58:15.980 --> 58:19.060
to tell the truth.

58:19.060 --> 58:21.340
Sometimes, telling the truth

58:21.340 --> 58:22.500
will get you the information

58:22.500 --> 58:23.080
you need.

58:23.880 --> 58:24.940
And it's up to you to

58:24.940 --> 58:26.460
determine the best approach.

58:26.540 --> 58:27.320
Do you need to tell the

58:27.320 --> 58:27.600
truth?

58:28.260 --> 58:29.920
Do you need to choose your

58:29.920 --> 58:31.160
words carefully and

58:31.160 --> 58:32.880
question, ask the right

58:32.880 --> 58:33.300
questions?

58:33.660 --> 58:34.940
Do you need to out and out

58:34.940 --> 58:35.400
lie?

58:35.920 --> 58:37.320
Do you need to read

58:37.320 --> 58:38.580
between the lines and not

58:38.580 --> 58:40.240
even directly ask anything?

58:40.740 --> 58:41.840
There's all kinds of

58:41.840 --> 58:43.180
different things that can

58:43.180 --> 58:44.160
come up that you don't have

58:44.160 --> 58:45.120
to out and out lie.

58:45.120 --> 58:47.360
And that's, to me, a really

58:47.360 --> 58:48.660
good social engineer who can

58:48.660 --> 58:50.180
get information without

58:50.180 --> 58:51.940
out and out lying.

58:52.200 --> 58:53.600
That's harder and that's a

58:53.600 --> 58:54.420
little bit more impressive.

58:55.200 --> 58:56.160
To me, anyway.

58:58.360 --> 59:00.120
A perfect example was I

59:00.120 --> 59:01.220
social engineered my way

59:01.220 --> 59:02.100
onto BinRev Radio.

59:02.340 --> 59:03.040
You know, I didn't tell you.

59:03.640 --> 59:04.780
I have no idea what I'm

59:04.780 --> 59:06.040
talking about here, but I

59:06.040 --> 59:06.800
made it on, didn't I?

59:06.900 --> 59:08.580
Ah, but as I said, I'm a

59:08.580 --> 59:10.080
good judge of character and I

59:10.080 --> 59:11.320
can tell by the show notes

59:11.320 --> 59:12.280
that you sent me that you

59:12.280 --> 59:13.260
do know what you're talking

59:13.260 --> 59:14.040
about, so there.

59:15.700 --> 59:16.900
No, no, no, no, no.

59:17.020 --> 59:18.220
Not pulling that one on me.

59:21.040 --> 59:22.160
Well, and I think we kind of

59:22.160 --> 59:22.960
talked about this earlier,

59:23.060 --> 59:24.840
manipulation technique.

59:26.080 --> 59:28.140
That's kind of, your word is

59:28.140 --> 59:29.340
that it was the basis of

59:29.340 --> 59:30.000
social engineering?

59:31.180 --> 59:31.400
Mm-hmm.

59:31.860 --> 59:33.820
It's not always used, but I

59:33.820 --> 59:35.580
think that it is used, whether

59:35.580 --> 59:37.320
you're lying or not, pretty

59:37.320 --> 59:38.300
much all the time.

59:38.860 --> 59:40.000
That there's few exceptions

59:40.000 --> 59:42.120
that you're not manipulating

59:42.120 --> 59:44.100
someone on some level.

59:44.820 --> 59:46.700
Yeah, and I think that's, most

59:46.700 --> 59:47.780
of the time, is the goal.

59:47.900 --> 59:50.400
You're trying to manipulate the

59:50.400 --> 59:51.940
person to give you information

59:51.940 --> 59:54.680
in some way, shape, or form.

59:55.240 --> 59:56.900
If otherwise, I guess it just

59:56.900 --> 59:58.160
falls under the category of

59:58.160 --> 59:59.220
conversation.

59:59.480 --> 01:00:02.380
I mean, social engineering is

01:00:02.380 --> 01:00:03.400
about getting information.

01:00:03.740 --> 01:00:04.580
Sometimes it's getting

01:00:04.580 --> 01:00:05.580
information you didn't even

01:00:05.580 --> 01:00:07.040
know existed or didn't even

01:00:07.040 --> 01:00:09.060
know that you wanted, but it's

01:00:09.060 --> 01:00:10.360
about getting information or

01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:12.500
finding information in a

01:00:12.500 --> 01:00:13.120
conversation.

01:00:14.300 --> 01:00:14.600
Mm-hmm.

01:00:14.680 --> 01:00:16.980
So, manipulation is pretty

01:00:16.980 --> 01:00:18.860
much a clear part of it, and

01:00:18.860 --> 01:00:21.280
again, kind of goes, you know,

01:00:21.320 --> 01:00:22.480
there's that gray area with

01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:24.280
morals and stuff, and probably

01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:25.900
the next thing that you wanted

01:00:25.900 --> 01:00:26.620
to talk about was

01:00:26.620 --> 01:00:28.720
impersonation, which that is, to

01:00:28.720 --> 01:00:29.720
me, a form of lying.

01:00:31.180 --> 01:00:32.420
You know, you're pretending to

01:00:32.420 --> 01:00:33.480
be somebody that you're not.

01:00:34.940 --> 01:00:35.680
Most definitely.

01:00:35.680 --> 01:00:37.840
So, I mean, that's fine, and

01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:40.320
it may be, maybe the only

01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:41.400
technique or the only way to

01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:42.540
get the information you want

01:00:42.540 --> 01:00:44.920
is to call and say, hey, I'm

01:00:44.920 --> 01:00:46.940
an AT&T field technician.

01:00:47.560 --> 01:00:50.940
I need you to do a look-up on,

01:00:51.180 --> 01:00:52.480
reverse look-up on this number

01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:52.920
or something.

01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:53.620
You know, I don't know.

01:00:53.740 --> 01:00:54.860
I'm whatever, making up

01:00:54.860 --> 01:00:57.040
something, but you may need to

01:00:57.040 --> 01:00:57.400
impersonate.

01:00:57.400 --> 01:00:58.060
Tell a technician who needs a

01:00:58.060 --> 01:00:58.760
place to test call.

01:00:58.940 --> 01:00:59.500
There you go.

01:00:59.560 --> 01:01:00.240
That's what it is.

01:01:00.820 --> 01:01:01.160
Anything.

01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:02.640
I mean, it could be any number

01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:04.360
of things, but, you know

01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:05.820
what I mean, impersonating

01:01:05.820 --> 01:01:07.640
somebody, that's, again, kind

01:01:07.640 --> 01:01:08.100
of easy.

01:01:08.380 --> 01:01:09.280
I think you said it was the

01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:09.600
easiest.

01:01:10.600 --> 01:01:11.460
Yeah, I said it was the

01:01:11.460 --> 01:01:13.520
easiest, because, I mean,

01:01:13.540 --> 01:01:14.560
anybody can impersonate

01:01:14.560 --> 01:01:14.920
somebody.

01:01:15.860 --> 01:01:16.340
You know?

01:01:16.700 --> 01:01:17.100
Yep.

01:01:17.180 --> 01:01:19.640
It's just, it's really easy

01:01:19.640 --> 01:01:19.940
to do.

01:01:20.200 --> 01:01:21.660
And using the techniques we

01:01:21.660 --> 01:01:22.640
talked about earlier of

01:01:22.640 --> 01:01:23.760
sounding the part, knowing

01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:24.640
the part, knowing the

01:01:24.640 --> 01:01:25.640
technology and the words,

01:01:25.740 --> 01:01:26.540
and knowing the information,

01:01:27.260 --> 01:01:28.720
there are levels of how well

01:01:28.720 --> 01:01:30.140
you can do this and how good

01:01:30.140 --> 01:01:32.360
you are at impersonation, but

01:01:32.360 --> 01:01:33.200
generally, it's pretty

01:01:33.200 --> 01:01:33.780
straightforward.

01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:36.040
And the next thing you have

01:01:36.040 --> 01:01:37.140
on here, as I kind of just

01:01:37.140 --> 01:01:38.080
said a minute ago, and

01:01:38.080 --> 01:01:41.020
that's just paying attention.

01:01:41.380 --> 01:01:41.600
Yeah.

01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:42.520
Paying attention.

01:01:44.420 --> 01:01:46.120
And, again, and this is my

01:01:46.120 --> 01:01:46.500
favorite.

01:01:46.660 --> 01:01:47.860
I mean, this, using subtle

01:01:47.860 --> 01:01:49.180
words and body language I

01:01:49.180 --> 01:01:50.240
kind of referred to earlier,

01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:53.200
these, to me, are those

01:01:53.200 --> 01:01:54.620
little things that can

01:01:54.620 --> 01:01:56.480
sometimes speak volumes

01:01:56.480 --> 01:01:57.660
about people.

01:01:57.800 --> 01:01:59.440
This is how I catch a lot

01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:00.820
of people in things, and

01:02:00.820 --> 01:02:02.740
how I can tell what makes

01:02:02.740 --> 01:02:06.120
somebody uncomfortable, what

01:02:06.120 --> 01:02:07.320
somebody may or may not

01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:08.940
like talking about, the way

01:02:08.940 --> 01:02:09.820
they choose their words,

01:02:09.900 --> 01:02:11.540
like the example we have

01:02:11.540 --> 01:02:14.060
earlier of choosing one

01:02:14.060 --> 01:02:15.380
particular vocabulary word

01:02:15.380 --> 01:02:17.040
over another one that tells

01:02:17.040 --> 01:02:18.200
you a lot about the person.

01:02:18.720 --> 01:02:20.360
So, subtle words, the body

01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:21.560
language, just pay attention

01:02:21.560 --> 01:02:22.740
to everything.

01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:24.400
And see, in general, I would

01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:25.460
recommend that all hackers

01:02:25.460 --> 01:02:26.580
should do that as a survival

01:02:26.580 --> 01:02:27.040
skill.

01:02:27.720 --> 01:02:29.080
Always pay attention to what's

01:02:29.080 --> 01:02:29.880
going on around you.

01:02:30.060 --> 01:02:32.040
I know it sounds cliche and

01:02:32.040 --> 01:02:33.700
corny, but you should always

01:02:33.700 --> 01:02:35.040
be aware if there's any vans

01:02:35.040 --> 01:02:36.220
with tinted windows around

01:02:36.220 --> 01:02:36.480
you.

01:02:36.540 --> 01:02:37.720
You should always be aware

01:02:37.720 --> 01:02:38.120
of that.

01:02:38.740 --> 01:02:41.720
You should always know, if

01:02:41.720 --> 01:02:43.500
you're in a coffee shop or an

01:02:43.500 --> 01:02:44.300
airport and you're using

01:02:44.300 --> 01:02:46.180
wireless, you should always be

01:02:46.180 --> 01:02:47.400
paying attention around you to

01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:48.440
see if somebody is sniffing

01:02:48.440 --> 01:02:50.860
your traffic, or whose traffic

01:02:50.860 --> 01:02:52.820
you might be sniffing if you

01:02:52.820 --> 01:02:53.660
were doing such a thing.

01:02:53.720 --> 01:02:55.060
Not that we're condoning that.

01:02:55.060 --> 01:02:59.040
Well, along with paying

01:02:59.040 --> 01:03:00.420
attention, subtle words, and

01:03:00.420 --> 01:03:02.420
body language goes looking at

01:03:02.420 --> 01:03:03.400
how someone dresses.

01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:05.140
You know, you might want to

01:03:05.140 --> 01:03:06.660
check out their shoes, what

01:03:06.660 --> 01:03:07.680
kind of socks they wear.

01:03:08.720 --> 01:03:09.880
Those are the big things that

01:03:09.880 --> 01:03:12.460
people generally miss when they

01:03:12.460 --> 01:03:14.240
go to try something like

01:03:14.240 --> 01:03:15.120
social engineering.

01:03:16.300 --> 01:03:18.020
Or maybe how they carry their

01:03:18.020 --> 01:03:19.520
hands is another big thing.

01:03:19.780 --> 01:03:21.220
Well, and it also says a lot

01:03:21.220 --> 01:03:22.300
about that person.

01:03:22.300 --> 01:03:23.400
If you see somebody who's

01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:24.480
dressed really well and

01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:26.160
wearing expensive clothes and

01:03:26.160 --> 01:03:28.800
alligator shoes and Rolex and

01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:31.280
all that, you just already have

01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:32.620
a one-up right then and there.

01:03:32.720 --> 01:03:33.600
You've already got useful

01:03:33.600 --> 01:03:34.960
information that this person

01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:36.140
obviously has money.

01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:38.480
So, you've already got one

01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:40.220
thing that you know is not

01:03:40.220 --> 01:03:41.540
going to be successful for

01:03:41.540 --> 01:03:41.620
you.

01:03:41.680 --> 01:03:42.520
There's no way you're going to

01:03:42.520 --> 01:03:43.920
manipulate this man or this

01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:46.340
woman, this conversation, by

01:03:46.340 --> 01:03:47.800
using money in any way, shape,

01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:48.120
or form.

01:03:48.160 --> 01:03:48.900
You're not going to bribe

01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:49.060
them.

01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:51.020
You're not going to make them

01:03:51.020 --> 01:03:52.500
worry about something costing

01:03:52.500 --> 01:03:52.900
too much.

01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:53.960
Hey, you have to do this now

01:03:53.960 --> 01:03:54.720
or it's going to cost you

01:03:54.720 --> 01:03:55.320
twice as much.

01:03:55.560 --> 01:03:56.300
They don't care.

01:03:56.800 --> 01:03:59.360
That technique will not work

01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:00.380
with someone like that.

01:04:01.100 --> 01:04:03.100
But for someone else, it may

01:04:03.100 --> 01:04:05.160
be the motivating factor.

01:04:05.240 --> 01:04:06.480
Oh, I can't afford to have

01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:06.700
this.

01:04:07.160 --> 01:04:08.140
Oh, is that your car out

01:04:08.140 --> 01:04:08.240
there?

01:04:08.260 --> 01:04:09.080
It might be being towed.

01:04:09.140 --> 01:04:10.300
I'll watch your things while

01:04:10.300 --> 01:04:11.140
you go check it.

01:04:12.160 --> 01:04:13.060
You know, I hate that.

01:04:13.220 --> 01:04:14.620
It's another bad example of

01:04:14.620 --> 01:04:15.600
something dangerous that can

01:04:15.600 --> 01:04:15.980
be done.

01:04:16.340 --> 01:04:17.820
But they may realize, oh my

01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:19.260
gosh, I can't afford to have

01:04:19.260 --> 01:04:19.960
my car towed.

01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:20.940
But I've got to go check it.

01:04:21.340 --> 01:04:22.220
And they're gone and they

01:04:22.220 --> 01:04:23.300
leave all their stuff there

01:04:23.300 --> 01:04:23.720
with you.

01:04:24.080 --> 01:04:26.060
Now, you know, that's a bad

01:04:26.060 --> 01:04:26.460
example.

01:04:26.580 --> 01:04:27.740
Especially, hell, it could be

01:04:27.740 --> 01:04:29.500
Al-Qaeda and have a bomb and

01:04:29.500 --> 01:04:30.740
set you up to be in a bad

01:04:30.740 --> 01:04:31.240
situation.

01:04:31.640 --> 01:04:36.400
So, point being, I think I was

01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:36.700
self-explanatory.

01:04:36.700 --> 01:04:37.440
Yeah, that's a very bad

01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:37.860
example.

01:04:38.380 --> 01:04:38.940
Just, you know.

01:04:39.680 --> 01:04:40.540
I think it worked.

01:04:40.600 --> 01:04:41.260
I think the point got

01:04:41.260 --> 01:04:41.640
crossed.

01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:45.500
A couple other things that I

01:04:45.500 --> 01:04:46.880
wanted to mention in here too

01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:49.100
is, and this is, again, this

01:04:49.100 --> 01:04:50.060
is something that it takes a

01:04:50.060 --> 01:04:51.360
lot of practice to do, but one

01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:53.100
thing that I do a lot is

01:04:53.100 --> 01:04:55.180
sometimes, and this usually

01:04:55.180 --> 01:04:56.480
happens when you're in longer

01:04:56.480 --> 01:04:57.220
conversations.

01:04:57.960 --> 01:04:58.740
If you're in a short

01:04:58.740 --> 01:04:59.720
conversation, you're trying to

01:04:59.720 --> 01:05:00.500
get somebody to do something,

01:05:00.580 --> 01:05:01.520
it's usually you doing the

01:05:01.520 --> 01:05:03.340
talking, you call up, you're

01:05:03.340 --> 01:05:04.440
trying to get something done,

01:05:04.600 --> 01:05:06.500
and that's the end of it.

01:05:06.520 --> 01:05:07.180
They're either going to do it

01:05:07.180 --> 01:05:07.820
or not do it.

01:05:08.100 --> 01:05:09.280
A lot of times, pulling

01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:10.700
information out of people is a

01:05:10.700 --> 01:05:14.560
long-term conversation, and or

01:05:14.560 --> 01:05:17.160
argument, and or sometimes

01:05:17.160 --> 01:05:18.380
you're, again, and if it goes

01:05:18.380 --> 01:05:19.660
back to the practicing, I go

01:05:19.660 --> 01:05:21.360
and practice with people, even

01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:22.300
though I'm not on the phone

01:05:22.300 --> 01:05:23.880
with somebody to get

01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:25.160
information, sometimes I will

01:05:25.160 --> 01:05:26.620
try to just for the heck of

01:05:26.620 --> 01:05:27.520
it, just for the challenge.

01:05:28.180 --> 01:05:29.320
If there's a girl on the

01:05:29.320 --> 01:05:30.340
other line, chat her up.

01:05:30.420 --> 01:05:31.040
See if you can get the

01:05:31.040 --> 01:05:32.980
digits, talk to her, whatever

01:05:32.980 --> 01:05:33.680
you've got to do.

01:05:34.780 --> 01:05:36.800
That's all, all these kind of

01:05:36.800 --> 01:05:37.380
techniques when you're

01:05:37.380 --> 01:05:37.740
practicing.

01:05:38.120 --> 01:05:39.100
Well, one of the things that

01:05:39.100 --> 01:05:40.620
you should also throw into your

01:05:40.620 --> 01:05:43.940
repertoire, I have a wonderful

01:05:43.940 --> 01:05:47.980
French accent there, is the

01:05:47.980 --> 01:05:49.440
ability to dodge a question

01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:50.420
that's asked of you.

01:05:50.600 --> 01:05:51.820
You're asking questions to

01:05:51.820 --> 01:05:52.720
them all the time, but what

01:05:52.720 --> 01:05:53.340
are you going to do?

01:05:53.700 --> 01:05:54.800
You call and you say, oh, I'm

01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:56.400
a field technician, can you do

01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:58.160
a, pass me through to this

01:05:58.160 --> 01:05:58.460
call?

01:05:58.700 --> 01:05:59.800
They're going to come back to

01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:02.500
you and say, what is your

01:06:02.500 --> 01:06:04.040
field tech ID number?

01:06:05.020 --> 01:06:06.520
You've got to be able to,

01:06:07.140 --> 01:06:08.080
first of all, you should

01:06:08.080 --> 01:06:10.020
expect that question, you know,

01:06:10.080 --> 01:06:11.180
again, that's experience and

01:06:11.180 --> 01:06:12.580
practice, but you've got to be

01:06:12.580 --> 01:06:14.080
able to either answer that

01:06:14.080 --> 01:06:15.820
question if you know one, or

01:06:15.820 --> 01:06:16.820
you know the format and you

01:06:16.820 --> 01:06:17.920
can make one up or something

01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:20.380
like that, or you need to be

01:06:20.380 --> 01:06:22.860
able to sidestep the question

01:06:22.860 --> 01:06:23.840
and change the subject

01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:25.500
somehow, instead of just

01:06:25.500 --> 01:06:26.700
giving up and hanging up and

01:06:26.700 --> 01:06:27.700
counting it as a loss.

01:06:27.880 --> 01:06:28.940
Just because something's

01:06:28.940 --> 01:06:29.980
been thrown back at you, you

01:06:29.980 --> 01:06:30.920
haven't lost yet.

01:06:32.080 --> 01:06:33.100
Sidestep it and change the

01:06:33.100 --> 01:06:33.920
subject a little bit.

01:06:34.140 --> 01:06:35.480
Oh, well, I don't have that

01:06:35.480 --> 01:06:36.420
with me right now, can you

01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:37.260
just go ahead and patch me

01:06:37.260 --> 01:06:37.660
anyway?

01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:39.080
It's probably not going to

01:06:39.080 --> 01:06:40.400
work, but just sidestep it and

01:06:40.400 --> 01:06:42.000
avoid answering it altogether.

01:06:42.520 --> 01:06:44.160
Or, oh, you know what, it's

01:06:44.160 --> 01:06:45.260
out in the truck right now,

01:06:45.340 --> 01:06:46.340
can't you just look up my

01:06:46.340 --> 01:06:47.000
name, Smith?

01:06:47.860 --> 01:06:49.540
Just sidestep the question and

01:06:49.540 --> 01:06:50.660
throw it back at them.

01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:52.860
Make them do the work.

01:06:53.260 --> 01:06:54.540
Act like you're cooperating,

01:06:54.640 --> 01:06:55.780
but make them do the work.

01:06:56.100 --> 01:06:57.460
The worst case scenario is,

01:06:57.580 --> 01:06:59.700
yes, you have to hang up for

01:06:59.700 --> 01:07:00.460
one reason or another.

01:07:00.560 --> 01:07:01.780
If they really call you out

01:07:01.780 --> 01:07:03.060
and just go, sir, I don't

01:07:03.060 --> 01:07:04.020
believe you're an agent, can

01:07:04.020 --> 01:07:04.920
you prove to me something?

01:07:05.380 --> 01:07:06.400
You can always get another

01:07:06.400 --> 01:07:07.640
call on the other line, an

01:07:07.640 --> 01:07:09.260
emergency happens, someone's,

01:07:09.260 --> 01:07:11.220
oh, I can't hear you anymore,

01:07:11.340 --> 01:07:12.580
operator, I'll call you back,

01:07:12.640 --> 01:07:13.320
something's wrong.

01:07:14.040 --> 01:07:15.080
You can always, worst case

01:07:15.080 --> 01:07:16.340
scenario, hang up and give up

01:07:16.340 --> 01:07:16.860
and lose.

01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:19.640
But make it, don't give up

01:07:19.640 --> 01:07:20.120
right away.

01:07:20.380 --> 01:07:21.500
Challenge yourself and see if

01:07:21.500 --> 01:07:22.540
you can still get the

01:07:22.540 --> 01:07:23.960
information by working with

01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:24.540
that person.

01:07:25.640 --> 01:07:27.080
And along with that, I would

01:07:27.080 --> 01:07:29.360
say, I would bring up the

01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:30.420
subjective follow-through.

01:07:31.860 --> 01:07:33.480
That once you get the

01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:34.860
information you need or you

01:07:34.860 --> 01:07:35.980
realize that you're not going

01:07:35.980 --> 01:07:36.960
to get it on that phone call,

01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:38.980
don't just hang up or say,

01:07:40.060 --> 01:07:40.860
you know, I have another

01:07:40.860 --> 01:07:42.260
call right when they ask

01:07:42.260 --> 01:07:42.780
this question.

01:07:42.900 --> 01:07:43.840
You have to kind of lead up

01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:45.200
to that so that it's not

01:07:45.200 --> 01:07:47.120
blatantly obvious.

01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:51.140
So, follow-through.

01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:52.840
Probably also we can throw in

01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:55.720
here along the same section is

01:07:55.720 --> 01:07:57.660
to answer one question with

01:07:57.660 --> 01:07:58.400
another question.

01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:00.560
You don't always have to

01:08:00.560 --> 01:08:01.980
sidestep their question and

01:08:01.980 --> 01:08:03.040
redirect it with a different

01:08:03.040 --> 01:08:04.600
topic or something like that.

01:08:04.600 --> 01:08:07.160
sometimes you need to answer

01:08:07.160 --> 01:08:08.120
their question with another

01:08:08.120 --> 01:08:08.600
question.

01:08:08.700 --> 01:08:10.400
Oh, I need your technician ID

01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:10.740
number.

01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:12.500
Which ID number do you need?

01:08:12.560 --> 01:08:13.760
I have four different ones.

01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:15.340
May or may not be true.

01:08:15.420 --> 01:08:16.240
Again, this is based on

01:08:16.240 --> 01:08:16.700
experience.

01:08:17.100 --> 01:08:18.160
Throw the question back at

01:08:18.160 --> 01:08:18.480
them.

01:08:18.920 --> 01:08:20.620
And sometimes you will just

01:08:20.620 --> 01:08:22.540
get them so off-kilter or so

01:08:22.540 --> 01:08:24.340
confused that they won't

01:08:24.340 --> 01:08:25.380
really know how to respond.

01:08:25.620 --> 01:08:27.700
Well, which one?

01:08:28.040 --> 01:08:28.600
The one that...

01:08:29.220 --> 01:08:30.180
Okay, I'll just go ahead and

01:08:30.180 --> 01:08:31.020
patch you through now.

01:08:31.200 --> 01:08:32.060
You know, sometimes you'll just

01:08:32.060 --> 01:08:34.060
get them so off-kilter that

01:08:34.060 --> 01:08:35.180
you will still succeed with

01:08:35.180 --> 01:08:35.620
what you're doing.

01:08:36.260 --> 01:08:38.760
Ask them another question as

01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:40.040
a follow-up or as a

01:08:40.040 --> 01:08:42.460
distraction or as though you

01:08:42.460 --> 01:08:43.640
don't understand the original

01:08:43.640 --> 01:08:44.040
question.

01:08:44.160 --> 01:08:45.480
Distract them and put them on

01:08:45.480 --> 01:08:47.060
the defensive and make them

01:08:47.060 --> 01:08:48.840
the one who has to take some

01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:49.580
sort of action.

01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:51.420
Push it back to them as much

01:08:51.420 --> 01:08:52.020
as possible.

01:08:54.720 --> 01:08:56.900
Now, we're really running

01:08:56.900 --> 01:08:57.860
short here.

01:08:57.860 --> 01:09:00.880
So, I think we can...

01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:02.080
Let's talk about goals a

01:09:02.080 --> 01:09:02.340
little bit.

01:09:02.380 --> 01:09:03.180
What are some of the things

01:09:03.180 --> 01:09:04.020
that you want to accomplish,

01:09:04.160 --> 01:09:04.980
Faceman, when you're...

01:09:04.980 --> 01:09:05.400
What do you...

01:09:05.400 --> 01:09:07.140
Why are we social engineering?

01:09:08.080 --> 01:09:10.100
Well, you could be looking

01:09:10.100 --> 01:09:11.860
for specific information like

01:09:12.400 --> 01:09:15.860
a password or login or work

01:09:16.900 --> 01:09:19.060
hours or anything like that

01:09:19.060 --> 01:09:21.120
that's very specific information.

01:09:21.360 --> 01:09:22.820
Or you could be looking for

01:09:22.820 --> 01:09:25.880
any information that you don't

01:09:25.880 --> 01:09:26.760
know what you're looking for,

01:09:26.760 --> 01:09:28.100
but you want a little bit of

01:09:28.100 --> 01:09:28.640
more...

01:09:28.640 --> 01:09:30.220
You want more information

01:09:30.220 --> 01:09:31.840
before you go and do

01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:34.940
something else or, you know,

01:09:34.960 --> 01:09:35.760
anything that might be able

01:09:35.760 --> 01:09:37.500
to help you guess someone's

01:09:37.500 --> 01:09:39.940
password or anything like that.

01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:41.060
You just want to maybe

01:09:41.060 --> 01:09:44.280
footprint a business by calling

01:09:44.280 --> 01:09:45.400
them up a couple of times

01:09:45.400 --> 01:09:47.940
and just chatting up, coming up

01:09:47.940 --> 01:09:48.920
with something on the spot.

01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:49.560
You don't know what you're

01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:50.240
looking for.

01:09:51.000 --> 01:09:52.080
And actually, I would suggest

01:09:52.080 --> 01:09:54.220
that as a way to kind of

01:09:54.220 --> 01:09:55.860
practice social engineering is

01:09:55.860 --> 01:09:56.940
just call up a business

01:09:56.940 --> 01:09:57.860
and start talking to them.

01:09:58.440 --> 01:09:59.720
Yeah, or, you know, and

01:09:59.720 --> 01:10:00.860
actually you made a couple

01:10:00.860 --> 01:10:01.540
good points there.

01:10:01.620 --> 01:10:04.860
One, like, you may not know...

01:10:05.580 --> 01:10:07.100
Most places nowadays put up

01:10:07.100 --> 01:10:08.040
their standard password

01:10:08.040 --> 01:10:09.300
policies or things like that

01:10:09.300 --> 01:10:09.600
on...

01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:10.840
You can easily figure them out.

01:10:11.020 --> 01:10:12.060
But if you might not know

01:10:12.060 --> 01:10:12.900
that, you might call and

01:10:12.900 --> 01:10:13.900
pretend to be a user,

01:10:14.480 --> 01:10:15.200
even though you're really

01:10:15.200 --> 01:10:15.560
not.

01:10:15.940 --> 01:10:16.680
Say, yeah, I'm having

01:10:16.680 --> 01:10:18.000
problems logging in.

01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:19.880
I can't remember what my

01:10:19.880 --> 01:10:20.780
password is.

01:10:21.860 --> 01:10:22.420
Can you...

01:10:22.420 --> 01:10:23.080
Do you have a hint?

01:10:23.180 --> 01:10:23.740
I mean, what is the

01:10:23.740 --> 01:10:24.420
standard password?

01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:25.560
I don't remember if I put

01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:26.560
numbers in it or not.

01:10:26.620 --> 01:10:28.060
I don't remember if I...

01:10:28.060 --> 01:10:29.580
If it was 10 characters or

01:10:29.580 --> 01:10:29.920
12...

01:10:29.920 --> 01:10:31.060
You know, they may tell you,

01:10:31.120 --> 01:10:32.740
well, sir, our standard

01:10:32.740 --> 01:10:33.820
password has to be 10

01:10:33.820 --> 01:10:34.780
characters and it may...

01:10:34.780 --> 01:10:35.900
It has to include at least

01:10:35.900 --> 01:10:36.520
one number.

01:10:37.120 --> 01:10:37.800
You know, you've got a

01:10:37.800 --> 01:10:38.620
little bit more information

01:10:38.620 --> 01:10:39.420
than you had before.

01:10:39.500 --> 01:10:40.160
So you're getting some

01:10:40.160 --> 01:10:41.160
information that you may

01:10:41.160 --> 01:10:42.720
then apply somehow for

01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:43.380
whatever reason.

01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:44.940
So that's definitely a good

01:10:44.940 --> 01:10:45.280
point.

01:10:45.280 --> 01:10:46.680
AOL.

01:10:48.120 --> 01:10:48.480
AOL.

01:10:49.760 --> 01:10:51.060
Yeah, that one's not even

01:10:51.060 --> 01:10:52.360
challenging these days.

01:10:52.440 --> 01:10:53.700
If people still use AOL,

01:10:53.880 --> 01:10:54.300
I can't...

01:10:54.300 --> 01:10:55.660
I'm still amazed by that.

01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:56.440
I can't believe they're

01:10:56.440 --> 01:10:57.460
still in existence, but

01:10:57.460 --> 01:10:58.900
that's a whole other topic

01:10:58.900 --> 01:10:59.420
altogether.

01:11:00.400 --> 01:11:01.760
Yeah, well, AOL is my

01:11:01.760 --> 01:11:02.360
pet peeve.

01:11:02.680 --> 01:11:03.040
Just...

01:11:03.040 --> 01:11:03.400
Yeah.

01:11:04.280 --> 01:11:05.620
Yeah, they've been...

01:11:05.620 --> 01:11:06.800
They were...

01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:07.900
Yeah, we won't go there.

01:11:08.020 --> 01:11:08.640
A whole other topic,

01:11:08.780 --> 01:11:09.280
a whole other show.

01:11:10.200 --> 01:11:10.880
All right, well then,

01:11:10.960 --> 01:11:11.620
you know, those goals

01:11:11.620 --> 01:11:12.460
being said, I think it's

01:11:12.460 --> 01:11:12.920
pretty clear.

01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:13.740
We've made it clear over

01:11:13.740 --> 01:11:14.400
the course of the show

01:11:14.400 --> 01:11:15.060
that it's always about

01:11:15.060 --> 01:11:16.060
getting some sort of

01:11:16.060 --> 01:11:16.620
information.

01:11:18.300 --> 01:11:19.900
Or one of the other

01:11:19.900 --> 01:11:20.640
things you mentioned that

01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:21.420
I wanted to follow up on

01:11:21.420 --> 01:11:22.760
too was you might be

01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:24.440
getting information that

01:11:24.440 --> 01:11:26.200
you can use later to get

01:11:26.200 --> 01:11:27.260
other information, to get

01:11:27.260 --> 01:11:28.060
more information.

01:11:28.220 --> 01:11:29.900
For example, you might

01:11:29.900 --> 01:11:32.380
call up a company or a

01:11:32.380 --> 01:11:33.460
radio station and say,

01:11:33.660 --> 01:11:35.960
I'm interested in doing

01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:37.120
some research or

01:11:37.120 --> 01:11:38.040
interviewing someone

01:11:38.040 --> 01:11:39.300
about your company or

01:11:39.300 --> 01:11:40.200
about your new product

01:11:40.200 --> 01:11:41.620
or doing a story.

01:11:41.620 --> 01:11:44.460
who would I contact

01:11:44.460 --> 01:11:45.180
for that?

01:11:45.780 --> 01:11:47.160
What are your policies

01:11:47.160 --> 01:11:48.200
for visiting?

01:11:48.580 --> 01:11:50.080
What requirements do I

01:11:50.080 --> 01:11:52.000
need to be able to

01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:53.000
come onto your

01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:54.700
company's property?

01:11:55.260 --> 01:11:56.360
And they may say,

01:11:56.540 --> 01:11:57.640
oh, well, you have to

01:11:57.640 --> 01:11:58.540
be approved first.

01:11:58.620 --> 01:11:59.780
Or, oh, no, you can

01:11:59.780 --> 01:12:00.760
just show up and talk

01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:01.460
to the secretary.

01:12:01.720 --> 01:12:02.540
They'll tell you

01:12:02.540 --> 01:12:03.680
information that can be

01:12:03.680 --> 01:12:05.320
the second part of

01:12:05.320 --> 01:12:07.220
your, I don't know,

01:12:07.300 --> 01:12:09.080
your social engineering

01:12:09.080 --> 01:12:10.320
odyssey, if you will.

01:12:11.840 --> 01:12:12.860
And with that, you

01:12:12.860 --> 01:12:13.780
don't even have to lie.

01:12:14.160 --> 01:12:14.740
Do you know about that?

01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:15.360
Absolutely.

01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:16.720
See, so many of these

01:12:16.720 --> 01:12:17.640
things that just, you

01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:18.700
don't have to lie.

01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:20.480
That always should be

01:12:20.480 --> 01:12:21.240
your last resort, next

01:12:21.240 --> 01:12:22.000
to last resort.

01:12:22.720 --> 01:12:23.580
Your last resort would

01:12:23.580 --> 01:12:24.480
be to hang up and run

01:12:24.480 --> 01:12:24.940
like hell.

01:12:25.520 --> 01:12:27.800
And or run like hell.

01:12:27.800 --> 01:12:32.960
But, so, I think we

01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:33.720
should, we've probably

01:12:33.720 --> 01:12:35.180
got about ten minutes

01:12:35.180 --> 01:12:37.480
or less, so, let's

01:12:37.480 --> 01:12:38.760
talk about a few tips

01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:40.060
here to kind of wrap

01:12:40.060 --> 01:12:40.400
it up.

01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:41.620
We've been using some

01:12:41.620 --> 01:12:42.460
examples and talking

01:12:42.460 --> 01:12:43.080
about some of these

01:12:43.080 --> 01:12:44.040
tips throughout the

01:12:44.040 --> 01:12:44.920
whole thing.

01:12:45.420 --> 01:12:46.360
But there are a couple

01:12:46.360 --> 01:12:47.780
tips here, and I

01:12:47.780 --> 01:12:48.680
think, why don't you

01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:49.540
go ahead and start off

01:12:49.540 --> 01:12:50.260
with a couple here

01:12:50.260 --> 01:12:53.640
that we alluded to

01:12:53.640 --> 01:12:54.480
earlier, but go into

01:12:54.480 --> 01:12:55.020
a little bit more

01:12:55.020 --> 01:12:55.400
detail.

01:12:56.440 --> 01:12:57.480
Well, I would think

01:12:57.480 --> 01:12:58.140
that the absolute

01:12:58.140 --> 01:12:59.320
most important tip,

01:12:59.660 --> 01:13:02.360
well, depending on

01:13:02.360 --> 01:13:03.020
what you're doing,

01:13:03.100 --> 01:13:04.040
would be confidence.

01:13:04.720 --> 01:13:05.220
You know, you've got

01:13:05.220 --> 01:13:06.620
to have that, I belong

01:13:06.620 --> 01:13:07.240
here, asshole.

01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:08.000
Appearance.

01:13:08.940 --> 01:13:09.600
You know, just kind

01:13:09.600 --> 01:13:10.700
of get out of my way,

01:13:10.780 --> 01:13:12.300
I'm in a hurry, or,

01:13:13.240 --> 01:13:15.500
you know, I belong

01:13:15.500 --> 01:13:15.720
here.

01:13:16.320 --> 01:13:17.420
Yeah, especially in

01:13:17.420 --> 01:13:19.200
the in-person, face-to-face,

01:13:19.700 --> 01:13:20.200
I mean, you've got to

01:13:20.200 --> 01:13:20.920
look the part, you've

01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:21.560
got to feel like, if

01:13:21.560 --> 01:13:22.040
you're going to go

01:13:22.040 --> 01:13:23.580
into the, you know,

01:13:23.720 --> 01:13:24.540
what was the example

01:13:24.540 --> 01:13:25.160
I used earlier, going

01:13:25.160 --> 01:13:27.800
into a doctor's convention

01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:28.860
with all kinds of

01:13:28.860 --> 01:13:29.720
medical, you better

01:13:29.720 --> 01:13:30.660
look like you belong,

01:13:30.860 --> 01:13:31.880
you better look like a

01:13:31.880 --> 01:13:33.060
confident doctor, you

01:13:33.060 --> 01:13:33.880
better be in there

01:13:33.880 --> 01:13:36.100
looking like, not

01:13:36.100 --> 01:13:37.140
looking like you're out

01:13:37.140 --> 01:13:37.680
of place.

01:13:39.200 --> 01:13:39.980
Got to have that

01:13:39.980 --> 01:13:40.640
confidence, and

01:13:40.640 --> 01:13:41.820
believe it or not,

01:13:42.620 --> 01:13:44.280
it's easy to give an

01:13:44.280 --> 01:13:45.500
in-person example, but

01:13:45.500 --> 01:13:46.360
believe it or not,

01:13:46.400 --> 01:13:47.280
people can hear it on

01:13:47.280 --> 01:13:47.640
the phone.

01:13:47.740 --> 01:13:48.500
People can hear when

01:13:48.500 --> 01:13:49.220
you're bullshitting on

01:13:49.220 --> 01:13:49.640
the phone.

01:13:50.840 --> 01:13:51.800
You can even tell

01:13:51.800 --> 01:13:52.740
sometimes in the tone

01:13:52.740 --> 01:13:53.360
of your email.

01:13:54.480 --> 01:13:55.580
So, try to avoid

01:13:55.580 --> 01:13:57.220
things like, well, I

01:13:57.220 --> 01:13:58.700
think it might be this,

01:13:58.760 --> 01:14:00.000
or I heard it might be

01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:01.780
that, or maybe it's

01:14:01.780 --> 01:14:02.120
this.

01:14:02.120 --> 01:14:03.380
That's not confident.

01:14:04.300 --> 01:14:05.440
You know, be confident

01:14:05.440 --> 01:14:06.560
with whatever you say.

01:14:06.660 --> 01:14:07.460
Even if you are

01:14:07.460 --> 01:14:09.480
unfortunately lying, be

01:14:09.480 --> 01:14:10.640
confident in that lie,

01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:11.040
damn it.

01:14:13.180 --> 01:14:14.840
And if you do get

01:14:14.840 --> 01:14:16.180
called out on it, you've

01:14:16.180 --> 01:14:16.820
got to come up with a

01:14:16.820 --> 01:14:18.360
story for why you may

01:14:18.360 --> 01:14:19.120
have been wrong, or,

01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:21.040
oh, I misspoke, you

01:14:21.040 --> 01:14:21.640
know, I didn't mean to

01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:22.260
say that.

01:14:22.340 --> 01:14:23.360
Right, don't freak out.

01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:24.680
Don't panic.

01:14:24.920 --> 01:14:25.580
Never panic.

01:14:27.380 --> 01:14:28.000
Never panic.

01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:29.360
The worst that could

01:14:29.360 --> 01:14:30.100
happen is they throw

01:14:30.100 --> 01:14:30.800
you in jail for a

01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:31.300
couple of years.

01:14:31.840 --> 01:14:32.160
Right.

01:14:32.300 --> 01:14:34.000
Always, even when the

01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:35.380
situation does turn on

01:14:35.380 --> 01:14:36.460
you and you are busted,

01:14:37.400 --> 01:14:39.340
even then, don't panic

01:14:39.340 --> 01:14:40.260
completely.

01:14:41.220 --> 01:14:43.100
You know, if you feel

01:14:43.100 --> 01:14:44.500
like your cover is blown

01:14:44.500 --> 01:14:45.480
or you're not getting

01:14:45.480 --> 01:14:47.640
what you needed, make up

01:14:47.640 --> 01:14:48.700
some excuse to get

01:14:48.700 --> 01:14:49.580
yourself out of there

01:14:49.580 --> 01:14:50.820
in a tasteful manner

01:14:50.820 --> 01:14:51.540
without drawing

01:14:51.540 --> 01:14:52.020
attention.

01:14:52.800 --> 01:14:53.800
Your phone, oh, my

01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:55.160
phone is ringing, my

01:14:55.160 --> 01:14:56.300
page is going off.

01:14:58.000 --> 01:14:59.420
Oh, my gosh, I've got

01:14:59.420 --> 01:15:00.400
a meeting in five

01:15:00.400 --> 01:15:01.400
minutes, I'm late for

01:15:01.400 --> 01:15:02.280
it, I'll come back and

01:15:02.280 --> 01:15:02.860
we'll finish this

01:15:02.860 --> 01:15:04.000
conversation later and

01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:04.840
excuse yourself.

01:15:05.360 --> 01:15:06.420
Try things like that

01:15:06.420 --> 01:15:06.860
first.

01:15:07.460 --> 01:15:09.280
Don't, you know, throw

01:15:09.280 --> 01:15:10.180
everything up in the air

01:15:10.180 --> 01:15:10.960
and go, run!

01:15:11.760 --> 01:15:12.960
You know, don't bust

01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:13.980
out the potato gun or

01:15:13.980 --> 01:15:14.960
anything like that unless

01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:16.500
you're really at your

01:15:16.500 --> 01:15:18.780
complete, you're in a

01:15:18.780 --> 01:15:19.760
dangerous situation,

01:15:19.880 --> 01:15:20.280
obviously.

01:15:21.140 --> 01:15:22.100
You can usually get out

01:15:22.100 --> 01:15:23.200
of situations even if

01:15:23.200 --> 01:15:24.120
they've gone bad.

01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:26.000
Only when, you don't

01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:26.720
want to, you want to try

01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:27.240
to get out of there

01:15:27.240 --> 01:15:27.860
before they call

01:15:27.860 --> 01:15:28.700
security or anything

01:15:28.700 --> 01:15:29.480
like that on you.

01:15:31.220 --> 01:15:32.160
Or you could always

01:15:32.160 --> 01:15:33.340
say, well, there was a

01:15:33.340 --> 01:15:34.140
man around the corner,

01:15:34.240 --> 01:15:35.560
he paid me $50 to come

01:15:35.560 --> 01:15:36.060
do this.

01:15:37.800 --> 01:15:38.780
Well, it's always an

01:15:38.780 --> 01:15:39.060
option.

01:15:39.280 --> 01:15:39.920
You never know.

01:15:40.540 --> 01:15:41.440
Yep, whatever fits

01:15:41.440 --> 01:15:42.000
the situation.

01:15:42.260 --> 01:15:43.080
And then just point at

01:15:43.080 --> 01:15:43.700
some guy randomly,

01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:44.540
that guy did it!

01:15:44.740 --> 01:15:45.140
Swarm!

01:15:45.260 --> 01:15:45.660
Swarm!

01:15:46.940 --> 01:15:47.860
And then run while

01:15:47.860 --> 01:15:48.440
they're not looking.

01:15:49.420 --> 01:15:49.720
Yeah.

01:15:50.220 --> 01:15:51.300
No, you're pretty much

01:15:51.300 --> 01:15:52.140
screwed if you're in

01:15:52.140 --> 01:15:52.800
that deep, though.

01:15:52.800 --> 01:15:55.800
So, another thing

01:15:55.800 --> 01:15:57.640
that's a tip to use

01:15:57.640 --> 01:15:59.320
is use the situation

01:15:59.320 --> 01:16:00.820
that may be going on

01:16:00.820 --> 01:16:01.740
if you've seen

01:16:01.740 --> 01:16:04.980
what's the one

01:16:04.980 --> 01:16:06.580
movie

01:16:06.580 --> 01:16:10.140
they're going through

01:16:10.140 --> 01:16:11.160
and they have

01:16:11.160 --> 01:16:12.180
a delivery guy

01:16:12.180 --> 01:16:14.840
Well, that only

01:16:14.840 --> 01:16:15.480
narrows it down

01:16:15.480 --> 01:16:15.720
to...

01:16:15.720 --> 01:16:16.260
Thinkers.

01:16:16.680 --> 01:16:17.340
Oh, okay.

01:16:17.420 --> 01:16:17.820
Like I said, that

01:16:17.820 --> 01:16:18.500
narrows it down to

01:16:18.500 --> 01:16:19.340
every porn movie

01:16:19.340 --> 01:16:19.820
ever made.

01:16:19.820 --> 01:16:20.880
a pizza delivery guy?

01:16:23.840 --> 01:16:24.880
Yeah, well, it's

01:16:24.880 --> 01:16:26.200
Snickers and they

01:16:26.200 --> 01:16:26.980
send in one guy

01:16:26.980 --> 01:16:27.640
first and he's

01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:27.980
trying to get

01:16:27.980 --> 01:16:28.960
these pizzas up

01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:29.740
the stairs and

01:16:29.740 --> 01:16:30.300
the security guy

01:16:30.300 --> 01:16:30.740
won't let them

01:16:30.740 --> 01:16:32.540
through and then

01:16:32.540 --> 01:16:33.840
you get Martin

01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:34.380
Bishop coming

01:16:34.380 --> 01:16:35.640
through and he

01:16:35.640 --> 01:16:36.980
has balloons and

01:16:36.980 --> 01:16:37.820
a cake and he

01:16:37.820 --> 01:16:38.620
says, hey, buzz

01:16:38.620 --> 01:16:39.060
me through.

01:16:39.940 --> 01:16:40.260
You know, the

01:16:40.260 --> 01:16:40.780
security guy's

01:16:40.780 --> 01:16:41.840
worried about the

01:16:41.840 --> 01:16:42.620
delivery guy that

01:16:42.620 --> 01:16:43.120
doesn't have a

01:16:43.120 --> 01:16:43.520
work order.

01:16:45.020 --> 01:16:46.600
So, that's a

01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:47.600
created situation

01:16:47.600 --> 01:16:48.200
you might want to

01:16:48.200 --> 01:16:48.560
use.

01:16:48.560 --> 01:16:49.680
You know, you're

01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:51.420
in a skyscraper

01:16:51.420 --> 01:16:52.080
and you decide to

01:16:52.080 --> 01:16:52.780
go roofing when

01:16:52.780 --> 01:16:53.660
you start to see

01:16:53.660 --> 01:16:54.640
security get mad

01:16:54.640 --> 01:16:55.140
at somebody.

01:16:55.360 --> 01:16:55.780
You know, if they

01:16:55.780 --> 01:16:56.400
leave their post,

01:16:56.540 --> 01:16:57.140
you walk by.

01:16:57.800 --> 01:16:58.400
Well, and you

01:16:58.400 --> 01:16:59.920
know, also right

01:16:59.920 --> 01:17:01.100
in along with that

01:17:01.100 --> 01:17:02.380
is sometimes you

01:17:02.380 --> 01:17:03.120
can create that

01:17:03.120 --> 01:17:04.680
situation yourself

01:17:04.680 --> 01:17:06.900
like, you know,

01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:07.680
one of the most

01:17:07.680 --> 01:17:08.640
common ones and

01:17:08.640 --> 01:17:09.140
people probably

01:17:09.140 --> 01:17:10.060
don't consciously

01:17:10.060 --> 01:17:11.700
realize or think

01:17:11.700 --> 01:17:12.640
to plan this ahead.

01:17:12.740 --> 01:17:13.060
It's usually

01:17:13.060 --> 01:17:13.900
impromptu but,

01:17:14.520 --> 01:17:15.160
oh my gosh, I've

01:17:15.160 --> 01:17:15.660
got to go to the

01:17:15.660 --> 01:17:15.980
bathroom.

01:17:16.100 --> 01:17:16.800
I'm about to shit

01:17:16.800 --> 01:17:17.800
myself or something.

01:17:17.800 --> 01:17:20.320
You know, if you

01:17:20.320 --> 01:17:21.760
really sell yourself

01:17:21.760 --> 01:17:22.560
that you're about to

01:17:22.560 --> 01:17:23.260
shit all over their

01:17:23.260 --> 01:17:24.780
floor, they're going

01:17:24.780 --> 01:17:25.420
to let you come in

01:17:25.420 --> 01:17:25.800
and use the

01:17:25.800 --> 01:17:26.240
bathroom.

01:17:26.980 --> 01:17:27.380
And that's a

01:17:27.380 --> 01:17:28.400
simplistic example

01:17:28.400 --> 01:17:30.040
but, you know, it

01:17:30.040 --> 01:17:31.060
can be something like

01:17:31.060 --> 01:17:32.460
walk in with your

01:17:32.460 --> 01:17:34.020
fake blood on your

01:17:34.020 --> 01:17:35.040
hand or real blood

01:17:35.040 --> 01:17:35.740
if you really got to

01:17:35.740 --> 01:17:36.560
get in that bad and

01:17:36.560 --> 01:17:37.140
hold your hand.

01:17:37.180 --> 01:17:37.920
Oh my gosh, I got to

01:17:37.920 --> 01:17:38.220
get in.

01:17:38.340 --> 01:17:39.620
I think I hurt my

01:17:39.620 --> 01:17:39.860
finger.

01:17:39.940 --> 01:17:40.620
I broke my hand.

01:17:40.700 --> 01:17:41.460
Something like that.

01:17:41.460 --> 01:17:43.880
create a situation

01:17:43.880 --> 01:17:45.860
where they're going

01:17:45.860 --> 01:17:47.280
to be in, put them

01:17:47.280 --> 01:17:48.220
in panic mode, the

01:17:48.220 --> 01:17:49.040
person in question.

01:17:49.560 --> 01:17:50.380
Put them in a

01:17:50.380 --> 01:17:51.220
situation where they

01:17:51.220 --> 01:17:52.240
have to make a

01:17:52.240 --> 01:17:53.200
split second decision.

01:17:53.580 --> 01:17:54.600
Don't give them time

01:17:54.600 --> 01:17:55.500
to think things out

01:17:55.500 --> 01:17:56.320
and go, wait a

01:17:56.320 --> 01:17:57.620
minute, you don't

01:17:57.620 --> 01:17:58.440
have a pass.

01:17:58.480 --> 01:17:59.380
I can't let you in.

01:17:59.560 --> 01:18:00.440
No, if you walk up

01:18:00.440 --> 01:18:01.220
there and you've got

01:18:01.220 --> 01:18:03.480
your blood gushing

01:18:03.480 --> 01:18:04.180
out of your hand,

01:18:04.260 --> 01:18:05.820
real or fake, or

01:18:05.820 --> 01:18:06.600
you've got to go to

01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:07.800
the bathroom, or

01:18:07.800 --> 01:18:09.080
you're carrying a

01:18:09.080 --> 01:18:09.780
bunch of stuff and

01:18:09.780 --> 01:18:10.200
you're about to

01:18:10.200 --> 01:18:11.360
drop it, they're

01:18:11.360 --> 01:18:12.520
going to try to get

01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:13.600
you in and avoid

01:18:13.600 --> 01:18:14.860
the accident happening.

01:18:15.500 --> 01:18:16.340
So, sometimes you

01:18:16.340 --> 01:18:16.960
can create the

01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:17.980
situation yourself.

01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:19.440
Sometimes I

01:18:19.440 --> 01:18:20.080
really want to help

01:18:20.080 --> 01:18:20.520
other people.

01:18:20.920 --> 01:18:22.020
Yeah, it's human

01:18:22.020 --> 01:18:23.240
nature most of the

01:18:23.240 --> 01:18:23.600
time.

01:18:24.460 --> 01:18:25.260
Human nature has

01:18:25.260 --> 01:18:26.040
gone downhill these

01:18:26.040 --> 01:18:27.340
days, but you can

01:18:27.340 --> 01:18:28.040
also create the

01:18:28.040 --> 01:18:29.040
situation by going

01:18:29.040 --> 01:18:29.660
in groups or

01:18:29.660 --> 01:18:30.280
numbers, too.

01:18:30.360 --> 01:18:31.080
Go with a large

01:18:31.080 --> 01:18:31.800
number of people,

01:18:32.320 --> 01:18:32.940
and believe it or

01:18:32.940 --> 01:18:33.560
not, there is such

01:18:33.560 --> 01:18:34.100
a thing as brute

01:18:34.100 --> 01:18:34.360
force.

01:18:34.420 --> 01:18:35.160
You can all rush

01:18:35.160 --> 01:18:35.840
and one or two of

01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:36.300
you might get

01:18:36.300 --> 01:18:37.140
through, depending on

01:18:37.140 --> 01:18:38.040
what your goal is.

01:18:38.480 --> 01:18:39.240
I've been to

01:18:39.240 --> 01:18:40.400
and I might date

01:18:40.400 --> 01:18:41.080
myself here, but

01:18:41.080 --> 01:18:41.500
I've been to

01:18:41.500 --> 01:18:41.960
Grateful Dead

01:18:41.960 --> 01:18:42.860
concerts where

01:18:42.860 --> 01:18:44.080
halfway through the

01:18:44.080 --> 01:18:45.000
concert, every

01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:45.560
hippie in the

01:18:45.560 --> 01:18:46.300
parking lot just

01:18:46.300 --> 01:18:47.820
stormed the

01:18:47.820 --> 01:18:48.780
concert arena and

01:18:48.780 --> 01:18:49.280
started ripping

01:18:49.280 --> 01:18:50.080
slats off the

01:18:50.080 --> 01:18:51.620
fences until the

01:18:51.620 --> 01:18:52.360
cops knocked a few

01:18:52.360 --> 01:18:52.840
down and threw

01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:53.620
tear glass, but

01:18:53.620 --> 01:18:54.540
quite a few got up

01:18:54.540 --> 01:18:55.280
and got into the

01:18:55.280 --> 01:18:55.620
concert.

01:18:55.760 --> 01:18:56.200
It's a brute

01:18:56.200 --> 01:18:57.020
force attack.

01:18:58.160 --> 01:18:58.760
How is that?

01:18:58.900 --> 01:18:59.500
You never thought

01:18:59.500 --> 01:18:59.920
you'd hear a

01:18:59.920 --> 01:19:00.640
Grateful Dead

01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:01.640
concert story on

01:19:01.640 --> 01:19:02.440
BinRev Radio.

01:19:03.900 --> 01:19:04.340
Bizarre.

01:19:04.340 --> 01:19:05.980
But not only

01:19:05.980 --> 01:19:06.800
that, sometimes it

01:19:06.800 --> 01:19:07.320
doesn't have to be

01:19:07.320 --> 01:19:08.060
brute force, sometimes

01:19:08.060 --> 01:19:08.760
you can just have

01:19:08.760 --> 01:19:09.280
four or five

01:19:09.280 --> 01:19:10.420
friends all approach

01:19:10.420 --> 01:19:11.740
within seconds or

01:19:11.740 --> 01:19:12.260
minutes of each

01:19:12.260 --> 01:19:13.480
other and get the

01:19:13.480 --> 01:19:14.500
guard or whoever so

01:19:14.500 --> 01:19:16.540
distracted that he's

01:19:16.540 --> 01:19:17.140
like, okay, what did

01:19:17.140 --> 01:19:17.400
you need?

01:19:17.460 --> 01:19:17.880
What did you need?

01:19:17.920 --> 01:19:18.440
Where were you at?

01:19:18.500 --> 01:19:19.300
And you might just

01:19:19.300 --> 01:19:20.120
be able to slip right

01:19:20.120 --> 01:19:21.000
on by without him

01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:21.920
even paying attention.

01:19:23.300 --> 01:19:24.280
Too much on his

01:19:24.280 --> 01:19:24.600
plate.

01:19:26.180 --> 01:19:27.180
A couple other quick

01:19:27.180 --> 01:19:27.460
things.

01:19:27.540 --> 01:19:28.180
We're really running

01:19:28.180 --> 01:19:28.660
low on time.

01:19:28.720 --> 01:19:29.500
I'm glad we gave

01:19:29.500 --> 01:19:30.200
ourselves plenty of

01:19:30.200 --> 01:19:31.300
time to do all these

01:19:31.300 --> 01:19:31.640
topics.

01:19:31.980 --> 01:19:33.100
We're barely going to

01:19:33.100 --> 01:19:33.500
get through it.

01:19:33.600 --> 01:19:34.240
And again, I could

01:19:34.240 --> 01:19:35.060
stretch this out to

01:19:35.060 --> 01:19:35.700
three, four more

01:19:35.700 --> 01:19:37.100
episodes, but a

01:19:37.100 --> 01:19:37.820
couple quick things

01:19:37.820 --> 01:19:38.640
if I may.

01:19:38.920 --> 01:19:39.420
Oh, go ahead.

01:19:40.180 --> 01:19:40.440
Okay.

01:19:40.760 --> 01:19:41.860
One tip along with

01:19:41.860 --> 01:19:43.500
using a situation is

01:19:43.500 --> 01:19:44.240
I believe it was

01:19:44.240 --> 01:19:46.480
Chessire Catalyst at

01:19:46.480 --> 01:19:48.680
Hope 6 had said

01:19:48.680 --> 01:19:50.700
that a hard hat, a

01:19:50.700 --> 01:19:51.280
clipboard, and a

01:19:51.280 --> 01:19:52.440
tool belt will get

01:19:52.440 --> 01:19:53.100
you anywhere.

01:19:53.620 --> 01:19:54.380
Just about.

01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:56.360
And again,

01:19:56.500 --> 01:19:57.040
confidence.

01:19:58.200 --> 01:19:58.780
And confidence.

01:19:58.900 --> 01:19:59.380
And throw that

01:19:59.380 --> 01:20:00.180
confidence in there.

01:20:01.480 --> 01:20:02.300
A couple other

01:20:02.300 --> 01:20:02.960
quick things.

01:20:03.100 --> 01:20:03.700
I'll jump through

01:20:03.700 --> 01:20:04.460
these really fast

01:20:04.460 --> 01:20:05.600
is, and this is my

01:20:05.600 --> 01:20:06.600
favorite thing, is

01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:07.180
ambiguity.

01:20:08.120 --> 01:20:09.020
Such an important

01:20:09.020 --> 01:20:09.660
word to social

01:20:09.660 --> 01:20:10.340
engineering, and to

01:20:10.340 --> 01:20:11.660
me, that is pivotal.

01:20:12.180 --> 01:20:13.320
That's what separates

01:20:13.320 --> 01:20:14.820
you and makes you

01:20:14.820 --> 01:20:16.340
really able to handle

01:20:16.340 --> 01:20:17.920
situations off the

01:20:17.920 --> 01:20:18.740
cuff a lot easier.

01:20:20.420 --> 01:20:21.660
Don't give anybody

01:20:21.660 --> 01:20:22.640
direct answers to

01:20:22.640 --> 01:20:23.060
anything.

01:20:23.520 --> 01:20:24.940
Never answer anything

01:20:24.940 --> 01:20:25.440
directly.

01:20:25.840 --> 01:20:26.520
Kind of what I said

01:20:26.520 --> 01:20:26.820
earlier.

01:20:26.960 --> 01:20:27.820
Dodge the question.

01:20:28.240 --> 01:20:28.960
Sidestep it.

01:20:29.140 --> 01:20:30.040
Change the subject.

01:20:30.400 --> 01:20:31.160
Answer their question

01:20:31.160 --> 01:20:32.100
with another question.

01:20:32.720 --> 01:20:33.840
Be vague.

01:20:34.260 --> 01:20:35.080
Be ambiguous.

01:20:35.700 --> 01:20:36.580
Somebody asks you a

01:20:36.580 --> 01:20:37.540
direct question like,

01:20:38.740 --> 01:20:40.320
are you really

01:20:40.320 --> 01:20:41.320
John Smith?

01:20:42.120 --> 01:20:42.720
It's a very

01:20:42.720 --> 01:20:43.780
straightforward question.

01:20:44.380 --> 01:20:45.180
You can lie and

01:20:45.180 --> 01:20:46.100
say, yes, of course

01:20:46.100 --> 01:20:46.640
I'm John Smith.

01:20:46.740 --> 01:20:48.040
I'm absolutely

01:20:48.040 --> 01:20:48.680
John Smith.

01:20:49.380 --> 01:20:50.360
You can sit there and

01:20:50.360 --> 01:20:51.240
lie to somebody.

01:20:51.780 --> 01:20:53.280
Or, you can be

01:20:53.280 --> 01:20:54.740
ambiguous, answer it

01:20:54.740 --> 01:20:55.680
in such a way that

01:20:55.680 --> 01:20:56.980
you don't, and

01:20:56.980 --> 01:20:57.880
again, this is, you

01:20:57.880 --> 01:20:58.540
know, I know Rax would

01:20:58.540 --> 01:20:59.100
probably say that

01:20:59.100 --> 01:20:59.860
this is still a lie,

01:20:59.980 --> 01:21:01.260
but answer it in such

01:21:01.260 --> 01:21:02.080
a way you choose your

01:21:02.080 --> 01:21:02.980
words to say something

01:21:02.980 --> 01:21:04.780
like, would I really

01:21:04.780 --> 01:21:06.080
be here if I wasn't

01:21:06.080 --> 01:21:06.600
John Smith?

01:21:08.120 --> 01:21:09.460
So you're inferring the

01:21:09.460 --> 01:21:09.820
answer.

01:21:09.820 --> 01:21:10.880
Or rather, you're

01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:12.520
letting them infer the

01:21:12.520 --> 01:21:12.940
answer.

01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:15.260
Who would come here and

01:21:15.260 --> 01:21:16.220
try to get into this

01:21:16.220 --> 01:21:17.020
room if they weren't

01:21:17.020 --> 01:21:17.600
John Smith?

01:21:17.720 --> 01:21:18.420
Does that make any

01:21:18.420 --> 01:21:18.640
sense?

01:21:18.700 --> 01:21:19.420
That's such a silly

01:21:19.420 --> 01:21:19.860
question.

01:21:20.180 --> 01:21:21.280
Make them feel silly or

01:21:21.280 --> 01:21:22.320
stupid about themselves.

01:21:22.980 --> 01:21:24.160
And you didn't answer

01:21:24.160 --> 01:21:24.620
the question.

01:21:24.780 --> 01:21:25.640
You didn't lie.

01:21:25.780 --> 01:21:27.040
You let them infer

01:21:27.040 --> 01:21:27.520
an answer.

01:21:27.660 --> 01:21:28.620
That's on them.

01:21:28.920 --> 01:21:29.980
If they're that weak

01:21:29.980 --> 01:21:31.040
minded that they can't

01:21:31.040 --> 01:21:31.820
figure that out or

01:21:31.820 --> 01:21:32.260
that they're going to

01:21:32.260 --> 01:21:33.200
be manipulated like

01:21:33.200 --> 01:21:34.380
that, you've kind of

01:21:34.380 --> 01:21:35.840
thrown it over to them

01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:36.280
somewhat.

01:21:36.720 --> 01:21:38.820
So ambiguity is such a

01:21:38.820 --> 01:21:39.540
huge thing.

01:21:39.600 --> 01:21:40.400
I can never over

01:21:40.400 --> 01:21:41.320
emphasize that.

01:21:41.840 --> 01:21:42.800
Never answer anything

01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:43.220
directly.

01:21:43.360 --> 01:21:44.180
Be as vague as

01:21:44.180 --> 01:21:44.640
possible.

01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:46.560
The more information

01:21:46.560 --> 01:21:48.860
that you throw out

01:21:48.860 --> 01:21:49.360
there that could

01:21:49.360 --> 01:21:51.100
possibly be wrong is

01:21:51.100 --> 01:21:51.980
more information that

01:21:51.980 --> 01:21:52.600
they might be able to

01:21:52.600 --> 01:21:53.240
call you out on.

01:21:53.500 --> 01:21:53.820
Right.

01:21:54.220 --> 01:21:55.200
Or they may be

01:21:55.200 --> 01:21:56.860
able to come with

01:21:56.860 --> 01:21:57.520
more follow-up

01:21:57.520 --> 01:21:57.820
questions.

01:21:57.920 --> 01:21:58.540
Oh, you are?

01:21:58.760 --> 01:21:59.740
When were you born?

01:22:00.260 --> 01:22:01.200
Fuck if I know when

01:22:01.200 --> 01:22:01.700
he was born.

01:22:01.800 --> 01:22:02.180
I don't care.

01:22:02.340 --> 01:22:03.040
You know, you can get

01:22:03.040 --> 01:22:03.780
yourself trapped.

01:22:05.060 --> 01:22:07.040
So, a couple other,

01:22:07.100 --> 01:22:08.120
here's kind of a funny

01:22:08.120 --> 01:22:09.340
thing that I wanted to

01:22:09.340 --> 01:22:10.260
point out and that's

01:22:10.260 --> 01:22:11.780
simply the fact that

01:22:11.780 --> 01:22:12.680
you can annoy somebody

01:22:12.680 --> 01:22:13.080
to death.

01:22:13.740 --> 01:22:14.720
There's nothing wrong.

01:22:14.800 --> 01:22:15.480
It is an absolutely

01:22:15.480 --> 01:22:16.580
valid technique to

01:22:16.580 --> 01:22:18.320
just annoy people until

01:22:18.320 --> 01:22:18.980
they give up.

01:22:18.980 --> 01:22:21.880
So, I've been on, I've

01:22:21.880 --> 01:22:24.700
called before and let's

01:22:24.700 --> 01:22:25.140
see, how can I

01:22:25.140 --> 01:22:26.020
carefully say this?

01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:29.160
I've had a situation

01:22:29.160 --> 01:22:30.280
before where I tried to

01:22:30.280 --> 01:22:31.180
get information from

01:22:31.180 --> 01:22:32.760
somebody and when they

01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:33.800
asked for the password,

01:22:34.440 --> 01:22:36.080
I did not know my

01:22:36.080 --> 01:22:36.400
password.

01:22:36.500 --> 01:22:37.580
I don't remember it.

01:22:38.040 --> 01:22:39.360
Was it, is it in my

01:22:39.360 --> 01:22:39.640
email?

01:22:40.180 --> 01:22:41.280
Oh, can you email it to

01:22:41.280 --> 01:22:41.720
me now?

01:22:42.120 --> 01:22:43.560
Oh, I can't get into my

01:22:43.560 --> 01:22:43.880
email.

01:22:44.040 --> 01:22:44.780
Can you send it to my

01:22:44.780 --> 01:22:45.420
other email?

01:22:45.820 --> 01:22:46.980
Oh, I forgot that one's

01:22:46.980 --> 01:22:47.560
discounted.

01:22:47.560 --> 01:22:48.740
Oh, let me check this

01:22:48.740 --> 01:22:48.980
email.

01:22:49.080 --> 01:22:49.920
Can you send it again?

01:22:50.180 --> 01:22:51.420
Oh, it's probably in my

01:22:51.420 --> 01:22:52.280
spam folder.

01:22:52.360 --> 01:22:53.080
Let me check that.

01:22:53.380 --> 01:22:54.080
I'm sorry, what did you

01:22:54.080 --> 01:22:54.840
say you sent it to?

01:22:54.960 --> 01:22:56.540
Just annoy the hell out

01:22:56.540 --> 01:22:57.920
of them until they

01:22:57.920 --> 01:22:58.900
finally give up.

01:22:59.060 --> 01:23:00.440
Believe it or not, a lot

01:23:00.440 --> 01:23:01.100
of these times you're

01:23:01.100 --> 01:23:02.060
talking to people that

01:23:02.060 --> 01:23:03.220
are making minimum wage

01:23:03.220 --> 01:23:04.000
or close to it.

01:23:04.180 --> 01:23:05.240
They hate their jobs

01:23:05.240 --> 01:23:05.640
anyway.

01:23:05.800 --> 01:23:06.520
They're just not that

01:23:06.520 --> 01:23:07.600
picky and they just

01:23:07.600 --> 01:23:08.240
want to get off the

01:23:08.240 --> 01:23:09.280
damn phone with you.

01:23:10.200 --> 01:23:11.160
So, but it's perfectly

01:23:11.160 --> 01:23:12.840
valid to have a

01:23:12.840 --> 01:23:14.120
technique where you

01:23:14.120 --> 01:23:15.120
want to annoy somebody

01:23:15.120 --> 01:23:15.980
until they give up.

01:23:16.740 --> 01:23:17.540
Just be stupid.

01:23:17.760 --> 01:23:18.400
Complain a lot.

01:23:18.480 --> 01:23:19.520
You can even cross a

01:23:19.520 --> 01:23:20.680
line to threatening.

01:23:21.760 --> 01:23:22.820
I don't like doing

01:23:22.820 --> 01:23:23.900
that because it's, I

01:23:23.900 --> 01:23:24.580
don't know, maybe it's

01:23:24.580 --> 01:23:25.520
a moral thing, maybe it's

01:23:25.520 --> 01:23:26.360
a personality thing.

01:23:26.420 --> 01:23:27.300
I don't like being mean

01:23:27.300 --> 01:23:28.260
to people if I can help

01:23:28.260 --> 01:23:28.440
it.

01:23:28.980 --> 01:23:29.980
But sometimes you might

01:23:29.980 --> 01:23:30.580
have to raise your

01:23:30.580 --> 01:23:31.820
voice and be abusive

01:23:31.820 --> 01:23:33.900
and threaten to take

01:23:33.900 --> 01:23:34.740
your business elsewhere,

01:23:34.880 --> 01:23:35.780
threaten to cancel your

01:23:35.780 --> 01:23:36.020
account.

01:23:36.160 --> 01:23:37.300
I've never paid a late

01:23:37.300 --> 01:23:38.980
fee on a credit card in

01:23:38.980 --> 01:23:40.620
my life because as soon

01:23:40.620 --> 01:23:41.500
as you elevate and

01:23:41.500 --> 01:23:42.200
threaten to take your

01:23:42.200 --> 01:23:42.960
business somewhere else

01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:43.860
and take your card,

01:23:44.480 --> 01:23:44.940
of course you have to

01:23:44.940 --> 01:23:45.500
have a little bit of

01:23:45.500 --> 01:23:46.340
something to back that

01:23:46.340 --> 01:23:47.060
threat up, back that

01:23:47.060 --> 01:23:49.500
threat up too, then

01:23:49.500 --> 01:23:50.220
they're willing to do

01:23:50.220 --> 01:23:51.360
whatever it takes to not

01:23:51.360 --> 01:23:52.440
cross that line and not

01:23:52.440 --> 01:23:53.140
lose a customer.

01:23:53.580 --> 01:23:54.520
So you can threaten

01:23:54.520 --> 01:23:56.340
people, complain, be

01:23:56.340 --> 01:23:57.280
annoying, whatever the

01:23:57.280 --> 01:23:58.740
scene calls for and

01:23:58.740 --> 01:23:59.760
whatever's appropriate for

01:23:59.760 --> 01:24:00.420
what you're trying to

01:24:00.420 --> 01:24:00.980
accomplish.

01:24:01.980 --> 01:24:03.560
Quoting of laws help too.

01:24:04.120 --> 01:24:04.860
Even, you know, and

01:24:04.860 --> 01:24:05.460
that's the other thing is

01:24:05.460 --> 01:24:06.120
a lot of people don't

01:24:06.120 --> 01:24:06.960
know them so that's

01:24:06.960 --> 01:24:07.800
where you really can't

01:24:07.800 --> 01:24:08.660
fake a lot of stuff and

01:24:08.660 --> 01:24:09.340
people would never know

01:24:09.340 --> 01:24:11.720
the difference or be

01:24:11.720 --> 01:24:12.060
vague.

01:24:13.060 --> 01:24:14.440
Try to relate to your

01:24:14.440 --> 01:24:14.800
target.

01:24:15.600 --> 01:24:16.760
A lot of times, and

01:24:16.760 --> 01:24:18.140
this is surprisingly

01:24:18.140 --> 01:24:18.940
effective, you don't

01:24:18.940 --> 01:24:21.100
know how many times I

01:24:21.100 --> 01:24:22.320
have gotten information

01:24:22.320 --> 01:24:24.940
from companies by

01:24:24.940 --> 01:24:25.940
pretending to be,

01:24:27.320 --> 01:24:28.420
pretending to have some

01:24:28.420 --> 01:24:29.200
relationship with the

01:24:29.200 --> 01:24:29.460
person.

01:24:29.720 --> 01:24:31.200
I call up and I hear

01:24:31.200 --> 01:24:31.920
that the person on the

01:24:31.920 --> 01:24:32.900
other line has a

01:24:32.900 --> 01:24:33.560
southern accent.

01:24:34.140 --> 01:24:35.000
Well, he's a fellow

01:24:35.000 --> 01:24:35.680
good old boy.

01:24:35.740 --> 01:24:36.540
He's another redneck.

01:24:36.540 --> 01:24:38.400
I can kind of talk to

01:24:38.400 --> 01:24:40.320
him in such a way as

01:24:40.320 --> 01:24:41.840
to make him feel more

01:24:41.840 --> 01:24:42.540
comfortable with me.

01:24:42.620 --> 01:24:43.420
Make him feel, and

01:24:43.420 --> 01:24:44.300
over the course, it

01:24:44.300 --> 01:24:45.240
doesn't take long, a few

01:24:45.240 --> 01:24:45.640
minutes.

01:24:45.980 --> 01:24:46.480
You're going to be on

01:24:46.480 --> 01:24:47.200
the phone a few minutes

01:24:47.200 --> 01:24:48.060
with most calls.

01:24:48.540 --> 01:24:49.680
By the time you get to a

01:24:49.680 --> 01:24:50.500
certain stage, you can

01:24:50.500 --> 01:24:51.380
joke with him, you can

01:24:51.380 --> 01:24:52.220
laugh with him, you make

01:24:52.220 --> 01:24:53.000
him feel like you've been

01:24:53.000 --> 01:24:54.280
best friends for years,

01:24:54.660 --> 01:24:55.300
and then when you're like,

01:24:55.360 --> 01:24:56.060
yo man, how about you

01:24:56.060 --> 01:24:57.080
hook me up with this?

01:24:58.260 --> 01:24:59.260
So, same thing, whether

01:24:59.260 --> 01:25:01.540
it's a southern thing, it

01:25:01.540 --> 01:25:02.320
can be that you're both

01:25:02.320 --> 01:25:03.060
from New York.

01:25:03.480 --> 01:25:04.580
Hell, you can even make

01:25:04.580 --> 01:25:05.320
it up.

01:25:05.320 --> 01:25:06.540
Even if they don't

01:25:06.540 --> 01:25:08.460
have an accent, ask them.

01:25:08.520 --> 01:25:09.340
People always like to

01:25:09.340 --> 01:25:09.940
be asked.

01:25:10.240 --> 01:25:11.000
You know, you have a

01:25:11.000 --> 01:25:11.820
little bit of an accent.

01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:13.040
I can't quite tell where

01:25:13.040 --> 01:25:13.640
that comes from.

01:25:13.700 --> 01:25:14.660
Where are you from?

01:25:15.040 --> 01:25:16.560
Oh, you're from Boston.

01:25:16.680 --> 01:25:16.880
Really?

01:25:16.960 --> 01:25:17.840
I grew up there too.

01:25:17.920 --> 01:25:18.900
I went to college there.

01:25:18.940 --> 01:25:20.220
Oh my gosh, small world.

01:25:20.580 --> 01:25:21.820
Make a connection with

01:25:21.820 --> 01:25:22.200
people.

01:25:22.720 --> 01:25:24.120
Relate to your target

01:25:24.120 --> 01:25:24.660
somehow.

01:25:25.820 --> 01:25:26.820
And along with relating

01:25:26.820 --> 01:25:28.060
to the target, I've never

01:25:28.060 --> 01:25:28.660
had that fail.

01:25:29.280 --> 01:25:31.700
Yeah, it always works if

01:25:31.700 --> 01:25:32.300
you do it right.

01:25:32.800 --> 01:25:33.740
And along with that too,

01:25:33.780 --> 01:25:34.680
and I'm going really fast

01:25:34.680 --> 01:25:35.540
here, it's to stroke the

01:25:35.540 --> 01:25:37.080
ego, tell them how

01:25:37.080 --> 01:25:38.220
great and helpful they

01:25:38.220 --> 01:25:38.520
are too.

01:25:38.600 --> 01:25:40.060
That's another thing is

01:25:40.060 --> 01:25:41.300
when they're doing stuff

01:25:41.300 --> 01:25:42.080
for you, go, oh, thank

01:25:42.080 --> 01:25:42.820
you so much.

01:25:42.860 --> 01:25:43.580
You don't know what a

01:25:43.580 --> 01:25:44.580
lifesaver you've been.

01:25:44.680 --> 01:25:45.760
I never would have been

01:25:45.760 --> 01:25:46.860
able to log into this.

01:25:47.180 --> 01:25:48.200
I couldn't remember my

01:25:48.200 --> 01:25:48.560
password.

01:25:48.660 --> 01:25:49.480
I don't have my email

01:25:49.480 --> 01:25:49.900
with me.

01:25:49.960 --> 01:25:50.820
If you give me that

01:25:50.820 --> 01:25:51.640
number, you would be the

01:25:51.640 --> 01:25:52.320
best thing in the world.

01:25:52.420 --> 01:25:53.240
I would appreciate it so

01:25:53.240 --> 01:25:53.440
much.

01:25:53.500 --> 01:25:54.460
I will write an email to

01:25:54.460 --> 01:25:55.700
your boss and tell them

01:25:55.700 --> 01:25:56.560
how great you are.

01:25:56.860 --> 01:25:57.820
People like to have their

01:25:57.820 --> 01:25:58.980
ego stroked and told how

01:25:58.980 --> 01:25:59.740
great they are.

01:25:59.740 --> 01:26:01.700
And, in a certain way,

01:26:01.760 --> 01:26:02.620
bribe them by telling

01:26:02.620 --> 01:26:03.720
them you're going to send

01:26:03.720 --> 01:26:04.560
email or you're going to

01:26:04.560 --> 01:26:05.020
follow up.

01:26:05.120 --> 01:26:05.600
And you know what?

01:26:05.720 --> 01:26:06.480
Sometimes you might want

01:26:06.480 --> 01:26:07.500
to be sincere about that

01:26:07.500 --> 01:26:08.300
if they really do help

01:26:08.300 --> 01:26:08.480
you.

01:26:09.580 --> 01:26:11.480
So, we're really low on

01:26:11.480 --> 01:26:12.180
time, so I'm going to

01:26:12.180 --> 01:26:13.240
wrap it up right there,

01:26:13.340 --> 01:26:13.700
I guess.

01:26:13.880 --> 01:26:15.840
I think the moral of the

01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:17.140
whole story, and I guess

01:26:17.140 --> 01:26:18.780
moral is a good choice of

01:26:18.780 --> 01:26:20.260
words, is everybody has

01:26:20.260 --> 01:26:21.220
different morals and what

01:26:21.220 --> 01:26:22.000
they're willing to do and

01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:23.240
not willing to do in lines

01:26:23.240 --> 01:26:24.220
that they are and are not

01:26:24.220 --> 01:26:25.260
willing to cross.

01:26:25.940 --> 01:26:26.480
I mean, do you have a

01:26:26.480 --> 01:26:28.280
good closing sentence or

01:26:28.280 --> 01:26:29.000
something to sum the

01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:29.580
whole thing up?

01:26:32.540 --> 01:26:33.960
I did, but I forgot it.

01:26:34.300 --> 01:26:34.520
Crap.

01:26:35.760 --> 01:26:36.680
No, I don't.

01:26:36.820 --> 01:26:37.500
Okay, then.

01:26:37.540 --> 01:26:39.160
Well, I guess we will

01:26:39.160 --> 01:26:40.740
close up the main topic

01:26:40.740 --> 01:26:42.760
and do our closing points

01:26:42.760 --> 01:26:43.140
here.

01:26:43.980 --> 01:26:44.480
Let's see.

01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:44.900
What do we have?

01:26:44.960 --> 01:26:45.740
Reminder to everybody,

01:26:45.840 --> 01:26:46.920
the BIDREV meetings are

01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:48.920
this Friday, except for

01:26:48.920 --> 01:26:49.840
the BR-407.

01:26:49.940 --> 01:26:50.780
We will not have our

01:26:50.780 --> 01:26:52.320
Orlando BR-407 meeting

01:26:52.320 --> 01:26:54.060
because I will be out of

01:26:54.060 --> 01:26:56.780
town, out of the state,

01:26:56.880 --> 01:26:57.600
out of the country.

01:26:57.600 --> 01:26:59.520
So I will be completely

01:26:59.520 --> 01:27:00.580
unreachable, and

01:27:00.580 --> 01:27:01.800
coincidentally, so are all

01:27:01.800 --> 01:27:02.600
of our other regulars.

01:27:02.680 --> 01:27:04.480
They all happen to be out

01:27:04.480 --> 01:27:05.460
of town at the same time,

01:27:05.520 --> 01:27:07.220
so we will not have a BR-407.

01:27:07.360 --> 01:27:08.320
But everyone else, your

01:27:08.320 --> 01:27:09.320
BIDREV meetings are this

01:27:09.320 --> 01:27:09.740
Friday.

01:27:10.700 --> 01:27:12.340
Shouts from me, I'll just

01:27:12.340 --> 01:27:13.080
give shout-outs to the

01:27:13.080 --> 01:27:14.160
Agents of the Revolution,

01:27:14.680 --> 01:27:15.760
everybody in the forums.

01:27:15.940 --> 01:27:19.000
I would love for this group

01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:20.020
to grow, for people to

01:27:20.020 --> 01:27:20.840
participate more.

01:27:20.840 --> 01:27:22.760
So by all means, we're

01:27:22.760 --> 01:27:23.540
keeping an eye out for

01:27:23.540 --> 01:27:24.800
people like that, and we'd

01:27:24.800 --> 01:27:26.960
like to see everybody get

01:27:26.960 --> 01:27:27.880
into this group, and

01:27:27.880 --> 01:27:29.040
everybody to kind of step

01:27:29.040 --> 01:27:29.960
up the game a little bit.

01:27:30.500 --> 01:27:31.340
And what do you got for

01:27:31.340 --> 01:27:31.580
shouts?

01:27:32.500 --> 01:27:34.160
I want to give shouts to

01:27:34.160 --> 01:27:36.100
Enigma, Zal91, Drake

01:27:36.100 --> 01:27:37.860
Anubis, Black Ratchet, and

01:27:37.860 --> 01:27:38.640
everybody in Pound

01:27:38.640 --> 01:27:39.040
BIDREV.

01:27:39.680 --> 01:27:40.340
Very cool.

01:27:40.420 --> 01:27:40.820
And you know what?

01:27:40.840 --> 01:27:41.720
I've got to take a second

01:27:41.720 --> 01:27:42.720
here, too, because I've

01:27:42.720 --> 01:27:44.120
been, because I'm not doing

01:27:44.120 --> 01:27:44.920
the show, I've kind of

01:27:44.920 --> 01:27:46.060
fallen really far behind

01:27:46.060 --> 01:27:47.380
here, but I haven't

01:27:47.380 --> 01:27:48.580
officially announced that

01:27:48.580 --> 01:27:50.140
Enigma is actually an

01:27:50.140 --> 01:27:51.480
official DDP member now,

01:27:51.500 --> 01:27:52.660
and has been for probably

01:27:52.660 --> 01:27:54.240
a month or two, and I

01:27:54.240 --> 01:27:56.360
haven't had time to do a

01:27:56.360 --> 01:27:58.420
show, let alone get him

01:27:58.420 --> 01:27:58.540
on.

01:27:58.580 --> 01:27:59.440
We've been actually trying

01:27:59.440 --> 01:28:00.300
to do a show together,

01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:02.680
and we kept putting it

01:28:02.680 --> 01:28:03.460
off and putting it off,

01:28:03.520 --> 01:28:04.160
but I should definitely

01:28:04.160 --> 01:28:05.100
officially announce it

01:28:05.100 --> 01:28:06.160
and welcome him to the

01:28:06.160 --> 01:28:07.560
DDP officially.

01:28:07.740 --> 01:28:08.860
He's working on several

01:28:08.860 --> 01:28:10.760
projects for us, and he's

01:28:10.760 --> 01:28:12.480
a great guy, so totally

01:28:12.480 --> 01:28:13.300
second those shouts.

01:28:13.420 --> 01:28:14.020
And everybody, the guys

01:28:14.020 --> 01:28:14.860
that did the show last

01:28:14.860 --> 01:28:15.520
week, definitely give

01:28:15.520 --> 01:28:16.400
shouts out to all of

01:28:16.400 --> 01:28:16.680
them.

01:28:17.700 --> 01:28:19.220
And let's see, hosting

01:28:19.220 --> 01:28:20.260
for Binary Evolution

01:28:20.260 --> 01:28:21.460
Radio is provided by

01:28:21.460 --> 01:28:24.060
caro.net, C-A-R-O.net,

01:28:24.160 --> 01:28:25.300
carolina.net.

01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:26.820
Carolina Networks, I

01:28:26.820 --> 01:28:27.900
should say, if you need

01:28:27.900 --> 01:28:29.180
dedicated hosting, they

01:28:29.180 --> 01:28:30.100
have been very good to us

01:28:30.100 --> 01:28:30.520
so far.

01:28:31.140 --> 01:28:32.620
Our site of the week, this

01:28:32.620 --> 01:28:33.180
week, is

01:28:33.180 --> 01:28:36.140
savenetradio.org.

01:28:36.620 --> 01:28:37.400
Go check it out.

01:28:37.480 --> 01:28:38.520
What was it you said

01:28:38.520 --> 01:28:39.560
earlier, internet radio?

01:28:40.760 --> 01:28:43.080
It has 62 days left or

01:28:43.080 --> 01:28:43.280
something.

01:28:43.380 --> 01:28:45.040
62 days or something, 28,

01:28:45.160 --> 01:28:45.800
I don't remember what it

01:28:45.800 --> 01:28:46.640
was, days to live.

01:28:46.640 --> 01:28:47.580
So, check out

01:28:47.580 --> 01:28:49.540
savenetradio.org and see

01:28:49.540 --> 01:28:50.500
what you can do to help.

01:28:51.320 --> 01:28:52.940
Email us, feedback of any

01:28:52.940 --> 01:28:54.300
kind, good, bad, ugly,

01:28:54.420 --> 01:28:55.560
flames, or pictures of

01:28:55.560 --> 01:28:56.400
faceman naked.

01:28:56.540 --> 01:28:57.280
Oh, wait a minute, we

01:28:57.280 --> 01:28:58.180
can't do that one because

01:28:58.180 --> 01:28:58.960
I get in trouble.

01:28:59.140 --> 01:28:59.540
Oh, minor.

01:28:59.840 --> 01:29:00.660
Radio at

01:29:00.660 --> 01:29:02.180
binrev.com.

01:29:02.720 --> 01:29:04.080
And our closing music this

01:29:04.080 --> 01:29:05.300
week is from The

01:29:05.300 --> 01:29:06.500
Mr. Move.

01:29:06.820 --> 01:29:08.940
God, this guy rocks so

01:29:08.940 --> 01:29:09.640
hard.

01:29:10.120 --> 01:29:10.900
This song is called

01:29:10.900 --> 01:29:11.980
Ass Shaken.

01:29:12.600 --> 01:29:13.480
So, I don't think I've

01:29:13.480 --> 01:29:14.080
used this on the show

01:29:14.080 --> 01:29:15.440
before, but guys, go buy

01:29:15.440 --> 01:29:18.020
this album, themrmove.com.

01:29:18.080 --> 01:29:20.140
That's T-H-E-M-R-M-O-V-E

01:29:20.140 --> 01:29:21.140
dot com.

01:29:21.460 --> 01:29:23.160
Go buy his album, Easy.

01:29:23.720 --> 01:29:24.620
I just got it, been

01:29:24.620 --> 01:29:25.280
listening to it in the

01:29:25.280 --> 01:29:26.260
car, been pumping it.

01:29:26.340 --> 01:29:27.540
It is awesome.

01:29:28.260 --> 01:29:29.940
So, that is it.

01:29:30.700 --> 01:29:32.500
I guess, I gotta think

01:29:32.500 --> 01:29:33.400
about this, we will see

01:29:33.400 --> 01:29:36.880
everybody sometime in the

01:29:36.880 --> 01:29:38.380
future, maybe or maybe

01:29:38.380 --> 01:29:40.380
not next week, but it

01:29:40.380 --> 01:29:41.300
will be Same Hack

01:29:41.300 --> 01:29:41.760
Time.

01:29:42.800 --> 01:29:43.660
Same Hack Channel.

01:29:45.440 --> 01:30:14.960
I just want to let you know

01:30:14.960 --> 01:30:15.780
you got a real steady

01:30:15.780 --> 01:30:16.180
dumper.

01:30:17.420 --> 01:30:18.820
Hold up, wait up, stop

01:30:18.820 --> 01:30:19.400
for a minute.

01:30:19.560 --> 01:30:20.780
I doubt I'm behind, don't

01:30:20.780 --> 01:30:21.660
mind being in it.

01:30:21.760 --> 01:30:22.700
I sent it and I meant it.

01:30:22.740 --> 01:30:23.400
I'm going straight to

01:30:23.400 --> 01:30:23.720
hell.

01:30:23.960 --> 01:30:24.800
I'm looking at your bucket

01:30:24.800 --> 01:30:25.900
that you feel so well.

01:30:26.100 --> 01:30:27.000
You're working in a good

01:30:27.000 --> 01:30:27.880
way, shaking like you

01:30:27.880 --> 01:30:28.300
should wait.

01:30:28.340 --> 01:30:29.240
So many things I couldn't

01:30:29.240 --> 01:30:30.300
say, but nothing but

01:30:30.300 --> 01:30:30.700
show up.

01:30:30.800 --> 01:30:31.720
Give me credit from these

01:30:31.720 --> 01:30:32.540
things on which I sing.

01:30:32.800 --> 01:30:33.640
Lead, wind, and run, and

01:30:33.640 --> 01:30:34.780
all it took to be king.

01:30:35.020 --> 01:30:35.960
Ground by world, shaking

01:30:35.960 --> 01:30:36.880
ground with stopping beat.

01:30:36.960 --> 01:30:37.940
Ass wiggle to the beat.

01:30:38.000 --> 01:30:38.980
You bend, pretend repeat.

01:30:39.060 --> 01:30:39.600
Take a seat.

01:30:39.840 --> 01:30:40.760
Well, I'll take two.

01:30:41.360 --> 01:30:42.400
Trying to figure out what's

01:30:42.400 --> 01:30:43.220
going on with you and

01:30:43.220 --> 01:30:43.480
you.

01:30:43.720 --> 01:30:45.020
Both plus me equals three

01:30:45.020 --> 01:30:46.380
let's see that I got one

01:30:46.380 --> 01:30:47.300
something about how it's

01:30:47.300 --> 01:30:47.800
going to be.

01:30:48.000 --> 01:30:49.380
Me first, no, me first.

01:30:49.720 --> 01:30:50.520
Girl, I'm going to get your

01:30:50.520 --> 01:30:51.560
bubble burst, but I want

01:30:51.560 --> 01:30:52.340
her the worst.

01:30:56.400 --> 01:30:57.320
And if that ass ain't

01:30:57.320 --> 01:30:58.160
shaking, then I must do

01:30:58.160 --> 01:30:58.500
a stake.

01:30:58.600 --> 01:30:59.420
Must have done something

01:30:59.420 --> 01:31:00.700
wrong when I was on.

01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:01.680
And if that ass ain't

01:31:01.680 --> 01:31:02.540
shaking, then I must do

01:31:02.540 --> 01:31:02.860
a stake.

01:31:02.980 --> 01:31:03.800
Must have done something

01:31:03.800 --> 01:31:05.220
wrong when I was on.

01:31:05.220 --> 01:31:09.800
She got cheeks for weeks.

01:31:12.540 --> 01:31:14.060
Let me see, compete now.

01:31:16.780 --> 01:31:18.480
She got cheeks for weeks.

01:31:21.280 --> 01:31:22.900
Let me see, compete now.

01:31:23.160 --> 01:31:24.860
Hugsy kisses, kisses and hugs.

01:31:24.960 --> 01:31:25.640
The only reason that we

01:31:25.640 --> 01:31:26.640
fuck with you and both like

01:31:26.640 --> 01:31:27.560
drugs and you're looking

01:31:27.560 --> 01:31:28.380
pretty, pretty.

01:31:28.700 --> 01:31:29.980
I can claim this to seem like

01:31:29.980 --> 01:31:31.400
I'm looking for the dirty.

01:31:31.580 --> 01:31:32.540
You don't know, buggy,

01:31:32.600 --> 01:31:33.580
in the way that you're gonna.

01:31:33.580 --> 01:31:35.460
Me and Ed wanna talk a little

01:31:35.460 --> 01:31:36.500
farther when it's time to

01:31:36.500 --> 01:31:37.360
get your flower.

01:31:38.220 --> 01:31:39.340
Poetry in your way for a

01:31:39.340 --> 01:31:40.180
play for an hour.

01:31:40.320 --> 01:31:41.200
I know you big words

01:31:41.200 --> 01:31:42.220
cause I ain't no scholar,

01:31:42.340 --> 01:31:43.420
but I do got a doctor

01:31:43.420 --> 01:31:44.400
in making you holler.

01:31:44.560 --> 01:31:45.520
I throw parties and you

01:31:45.520 --> 01:31:46.140
catch disease.

01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:47.500
Like permanent ass

01:31:47.500 --> 01:31:48.360
when it doesn't think you

01:31:48.360 --> 01:31:48.780
were pleased.

01:31:48.900 --> 01:31:49.960
Just sit back, relax,

01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:50.920
and enjoy my pleas.

01:31:51.100 --> 01:31:51.780
And you know it ain't

01:31:51.780 --> 01:31:52.420
go home to give a

01:31:52.420 --> 01:31:53.060
fickle a squeeze.

01:31:53.180 --> 01:31:54.060
It's tense moments like

01:31:54.060 --> 01:31:54.860
things that I know and

01:31:54.860 --> 01:31:56.120
will seize while I wax on

01:31:56.120 --> 01:31:57.020
that ass of the greatest

01:31:57.020 --> 01:31:58.020
of these down here.

01:32:01.680 --> 01:32:02.740
Now when that ass ain't

01:32:02.740 --> 01:32:03.520
shaking, then I must

01:32:03.520 --> 01:32:04.000
be mistaken.

01:32:04.180 --> 01:32:04.900
Must have done something

01:32:04.900 --> 01:32:06.180
wrong when I wax on.

01:32:06.260 --> 01:32:07.120
Cause if that ass ain't

01:32:07.120 --> 01:32:07.860
shaking, then I must

01:32:07.860 --> 01:32:08.360
be mistaken.

01:32:08.540 --> 01:32:09.260
Must have done something

01:32:09.260 --> 01:32:10.660
wrong when I wax on.

01:32:13.540 --> 01:32:15.220
She got cheeks for weeks.

01:32:18.100 --> 01:32:19.520
Let me sneak a peek now.

01:32:22.320 --> 01:32:23.940
She got cheeks for weeks.

01:32:26.800 --> 01:32:28.260
Let me sneak a peek now.

01:32:28.260 --> 01:32:41.280
Now when I僕 work for weeks.

01:32:41.280 --> 01:32:41.640
Let me hehe.

01:32:41.640 --> 01:32:42.140
I guess she got cheeks for age.

01:32:42.620 --> 01:32:43.120
Let me jeep.

01:32:43.120 --> 01:32:54.560
I must have done something wrong when I wrote the song.