WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:09.460 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:09.760 --> 00:15.520 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:15.520 --> 00:20.780 and a fag pwned, in your digital stance getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in 00:20.780 --> 00:26.440 my six-fold, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable, 00:26.440 --> 00:31.740 on the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and 00:31.740 --> 00:37.240 I'm a hero, in a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast, you need some ISO, let me through 00:37.240 --> 00:42.680 my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught 00:42.680 --> 00:48.940 the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's 00:48.940 --> 00:53.460 all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling 00:53.460 --> 00:58.140 your phones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ leaves you flat on your 00:58.140 --> 01:03.440 back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:03.940 --> 01:11.160 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, 01:11.160 --> 01:14.200 SIFs, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crack. 01:15.200 --> 01:20.380 Hello everybody and welcome to the live edition, okay no it's not a live edition, it is another 01:20.380 --> 01:26.520 recorded edition, episode, whatever we call it these days, of Binary Revolution Radio, episode 01:26.520 --> 01:34.260 number 196, to be exact, to be precise if you will, because we're so precise on this show, 01:35.020 --> 01:43.540 and I'm so precise I'm even gonna tell you that today's date is July 3rd, 2007, Tuesday, July 3rd, 01:43.540 --> 01:51.220 the original air date, of course you could be listening to this in 3517, for all I know, 01:51.340 --> 01:56.400 as if MP3s will still exist then, or the Earth will still exist then for that matter, but that's 01:56.400 --> 02:01.860 a whole other topic, and maybe weighing in on that topic will be our new first time co-host, 02:01.940 --> 02:04.680 at least on this show, Enigma, welcome to the show my friend. 02:05.600 --> 02:06.280 Hey everybody. 02:06.640 --> 02:09.260 Are we gonna have an Earth in the year 3517? 02:10.200 --> 02:11.540 I don't know about that. 02:11.540 --> 02:17.140 Will we be destroyed by an alien race, or will we destroy ourselves by then? 02:18.000 --> 02:19.760 Probably, destroy ourselves. 02:20.720 --> 02:28.740 Well, if you're listening to this in 3517, well I guess there's nothing really to say, 02:28.800 --> 02:34.640 because we're long dead by then, so yeah, I guess we should move on, that was pretty much 02:34.640 --> 02:35.480 a pointless discussion. 02:35.480 --> 02:40.100 I love starting off the show, I'm all over the place. 02:40.700 --> 02:45.860 Well, this is an all Florida episode of Binary Revolution Radio, because my co-host Enigma 02:45.860 --> 02:52.960 there from the BR813 meeting, and me of course from the BR407 meeting, we got a central Florida 02:52.960 --> 02:59.480 thing going on, and in housekeeping, I think we should probably talk about the fact that we 02:59.480 --> 03:05.900 have a little meeting swap going on, if you will, or at least, I don't know, we're attending 03:05.900 --> 03:08.060 each other's meetings, it's not really a swap per se. 03:08.940 --> 03:14.280 Yeah, and I always love when you come over and talk, talk about I'm, I don't have to. 03:14.460 --> 03:18.040 Yeah, hopefully my laptop battery won't die in the middle of a presentation this time. 03:18.840 --> 03:19.240 Yeah. 03:19.760 --> 03:21.780 So when exactly, what are we doing here? 03:21.840 --> 03:25.880 We're going to, you're going to come over to my meeting first, for July, right? 03:26.640 --> 03:32.700 Yeah, I guess I'm coming over on July 21st, I believe, it's Saturday, and I'll be attending 03:32.700 --> 03:38.540 your meeting, and then you're coming over to mine the next Saturday, which is the 28th, 03:38.540 --> 03:42.000 and I guess my meeting is going to be at a different location this time. 03:42.480 --> 03:43.920 I didn't tell you yet, though. 03:43.920 --> 03:50.400 So it's on the Panera Breads, it's on the same rail that we usually have it on, everybody 03:50.400 --> 03:55.160 can check out their website, I'll have the new location up sometime this week, hopefully. 03:55.500 --> 03:59.080 Yeah, I'll have to put that into the GPS device there and find my way. 03:59.980 --> 04:00.260 Yeah. 04:00.260 --> 04:07.240 So yeah, normally, yeah, normally we have these on the third Friday of the month, but due to 04:07.240 --> 04:11.380 some visitors we were having, we decided to push them back to Saturday to make it convenient 04:11.380 --> 04:16.260 for both of us, so I'll go ahead and take the third Saturday, which is the 21st, so you 04:16.260 --> 04:20.780 can come on over, and anybody who wants to come to the BR-407 for the first time might 04:20.780 --> 04:25.480 be a good time to come meet up with Enigma, our good friend and fellow DDP member there, 04:25.520 --> 04:26.320 by the way, congratulations. 04:27.360 --> 04:27.560 Yeah. 04:27.560 --> 04:34.720 And we will have, I know I'll have at least one presentation, one that I had put together 04:34.720 --> 04:39.120 for kind of a last minute DEFCON submission, it's probably not going to get picked up, so 04:39.120 --> 04:42.880 I'll probably be giving it at that meeting, and even if it is picked up, I'll be giving 04:42.880 --> 04:49.100 it maybe a timed last minute run through, and if you can't make it to the BR-407, to 04:49.100 --> 04:53.620 the BR-813 on the 28th, and I'm trying to bring... 04:53.620 --> 04:58.640 I should have a presentation as well, that I don't know what I'm going to be giving yet, 04:58.740 --> 05:00.520 but we'll see how it goes. 05:00.520 --> 05:06.700 Well, I've definitely got, I gave a presentation last month at my BR-407 that I will bring with 05:06.700 --> 05:10.860 me, so I'll at least have that one, as well as possibly my DEFCON, if anyone's interested. 05:11.200 --> 05:15.240 I'm going to try to bring some of the BR-407 crew with me, and make a little road trip out 05:15.240 --> 05:19.960 of it, so I don't know if you can get anybody to make it all the way over here on the 21st, 05:19.980 --> 05:24.460 but we'll probably have two good-sized meetings, I think, around those times, so that will 05:24.460 --> 05:34.580 be pretty cool, and speaking of DEFCON, there's been some discussion in the forums about whether 05:34.580 --> 05:39.320 we'd be getting together at DEFCON, and who's going, et cetera, et cetera, and I've kind 05:39.320 --> 05:43.240 of been purposely laying off of that a little bit, because I wanted to see how the schedule 05:43.240 --> 05:48.360 comes out, to see what the speaking schedule looks like, which is supposed to be up any 05:48.360 --> 05:53.240 day now, if it's not up by the time you're listening to this, so it's supposed to come out 05:53.240 --> 06:00.660 on July 1st, and it's not there yet, so we will, I guess, basically, the easiest thing 06:00.660 --> 06:05.700 to say is to watch the BINREF forums, the top of General Hacking, there's some pinned threads, 06:05.800 --> 06:10.740 and I will pin something up there, once we figure out when and where we are going to meet, 06:10.960 --> 06:16.500 and once again, we will have presentations, I will have at least two, and Enigma, hopefully, 06:16.620 --> 06:22.600 will bring his, as well, and we will probably meet, like we did last time, there is a, 06:22.600 --> 06:28.820 oh, I forget the name of it now, I'm on the spot, it's some kind of mall right near, or 06:28.820 --> 06:32.800 kind of near, anyway, the Riviera, where DEFCON is held, there's a mall right there on the 06:32.800 --> 06:38.500 strip, lots of chairs, lots of places for people to sit, grab some food, we'll sit around, 06:38.600 --> 06:43.920 hang out, we had probably, gosh, we must have had 30 to 40 people there last time, 20 to 06:43.920 --> 06:46.920 30 people, something like that, so that was really cool. 06:46.920 --> 06:48.740 It's my first time at DEFCON, so. 06:49.080 --> 06:50.220 Well, you're in for a treat. 06:51.380 --> 06:51.920 Oh, yeah. 06:53.420 --> 06:55.180 For whatever that means. 06:55.840 --> 06:56.780 I'm scared now. 06:56.920 --> 07:01.660 It may not be the talks this year, but we'll wait and see, I'm not going to go saying and 07:01.660 --> 07:02.840 stirring up any trouble yet. 07:04.920 --> 07:11.020 Just saying, you know, I like when a hacker conference has hackers, and not a bunch of 07:11.020 --> 07:16.380 security professionals, you know, everybody I see on the speakers list is a real name from 07:16.380 --> 07:21.980 a real company, you know, we're the hackers, but I digress, I'll, I'm probably already going 07:21.980 --> 07:24.280 to get hate mail for that comment, so we'll see. 07:24.320 --> 07:25.720 Yeah, you're going to get hate mail for that one. 07:25.720 --> 07:27.860 I know, you know what, fuck them, I don't care. 07:28.160 --> 07:32.500 If it's not abundantly clear at this stage of the game that I just don't give a fuck, 07:32.940 --> 07:34.660 then I just don't know what else to do. 07:35.020 --> 07:38.980 By the way, this is not safe for work, in case anybody didn't know that either. 07:38.980 --> 07:41.580 Oh, we should add that to this. 07:41.580 --> 07:47.560 Yeah, if you really want to get not safe for work, go back 20 episodes of radio, and you'll 07:47.560 --> 07:48.100 get the idea. 07:48.460 --> 07:52.620 You know, I tried for a little while to bite my tongue, and be, you know what, it's just 07:52.620 --> 07:58.920 not me, it's not, not in this, you know, like if I were in person, in front of people, 07:59.000 --> 08:03.220 like when I give presentations, I never, ever, ever use this kind of language, but you know 08:03.220 --> 08:08.240 what, this show is my outlet to just say it like it is, and sometimes it just helps get 08:08.240 --> 08:10.640 the point across better, so, fuck them. 08:11.560 --> 08:14.700 Anyway, we should put a standard disclaimer at the top of the show, though, by the way, 08:14.800 --> 08:19.440 that's what I should probably have been doing all this time, warning new listeners, but, 08:19.620 --> 08:21.820 hey, life goes on. 08:22.460 --> 08:25.840 I don't think, now wait a minute, correct me if I'm wrong, Enigma, I'm not sure, but I 08:25.840 --> 08:33.100 don't think I used any foul language, I did an episode of Twatech Radio, today with a 08:33.100 --> 08:38.100 techie, Twatech, Twatechradio.org? 08:38.960 --> 08:39.880 Yeah, something like that. 08:39.940 --> 08:46.140 I did a radio, did a radio show, or did an episode of that show, at least one so far, 08:46.140 --> 08:51.120 while I was not doing this show, on its, how long has it been, a month, probably, since 08:51.120 --> 08:56.300 we did an episode of BinRev, and I think I kept it together on that one, I'm not sure. 08:57.220 --> 09:01.480 I think you did a pretty good job on it, it was considerably wrong. 09:02.760 --> 09:07.840 Well, you know, that's the cool thing about that show, is that there is no set, like with 09:07.840 --> 09:12.500 us, we have a set limit, truth be told, I mean, this show could easily be three, four 09:12.500 --> 09:17.220 hours every week, the way I just ramble on, I mean, we haven't even gotten to the email 09:17.220 --> 09:23.140 yet, and we're already almost ten minutes into the show, I mean, I can talk, it's not 09:23.140 --> 09:30.620 good talk, or smart, intelligent, funny, probably pretty awful, but it doesn't stop me from doing 09:30.620 --> 09:37.180 it either way, so, I don't know, that show's cool because you can do any length, it can be 09:37.180 --> 09:41.300 a five, ten minute episode, is there a minimum, or is there a maximum, is there either one of 09:41.300 --> 09:42.060 those things on the show? 09:42.900 --> 09:49.460 We try to do a five minute minimum, but I've had shows like four, thirty, up to, what was 09:49.460 --> 09:51.900 yours, an hour and nine minutes, you have the longest running. 09:52.160 --> 09:53.360 Is mine really the longest one? 09:53.480 --> 09:53.840 Gosh. 09:54.180 --> 09:59.900 Yep, yep, and I didn't even add closing music on that one, I figured it was long enough. 10:00.040 --> 10:00.620 Yeah, right. 10:02.100 --> 10:04.740 And I'm lazy, and I didn't really want to encode it, so. 10:04.900 --> 10:06.080 There you go, there you go. 10:06.080 --> 10:11.180 Well, I did another one out there that should be coming up, I don't know, sometime, whenever 10:11.180 --> 10:13.000 you need it. 10:13.300 --> 10:17.220 I got some other ideas in mind, so we'll be putting some more together, I think, over time. 10:18.000 --> 10:20.680 It's also cool because it's not all on my shoulders. 10:21.460 --> 10:25.960 Like this show, every week, it's, you know, I had Ratchet doing it for a long time, which 10:25.960 --> 10:26.500 was great. 10:28.160 --> 10:31.760 Right now, the reason it's kind of stuttered is because it's all on my shoulders, and if I 10:31.760 --> 10:37.640 just don't have time, which I knew was going to happen this year, I had a lot of other 10:37.640 --> 10:41.260 engagements, so I knew it was going to be a burden, and I just wasn't able to make it. 10:41.280 --> 10:46.600 So the show has stumbled because of that reason, no other, so it's good that you don't have 10:46.600 --> 10:52.660 the commitment with that show of one person having to be every single week, or twice a 10:52.660 --> 10:53.360 day, or whatever. 10:53.500 --> 10:55.780 You can kind of have a rotating cast of people. 10:55.920 --> 11:00.340 Each person does a small part, does their share, and it ends up working out better on 11:00.340 --> 11:01.120 the whole that way. 11:01.200 --> 11:02.760 It's not so much stress on one person. 11:03.840 --> 11:04.900 And that's what we try to do. 11:04.960 --> 11:06.320 We try to spread out the workload. 11:06.680 --> 11:10.380 You know, I've been taking, like, two shows a month, and some of the others have been taking 11:10.380 --> 11:15.740 two shows a month, but mostly it's one show per month, you know. 11:15.820 --> 11:19.000 But we do it every day, so, or try to, at least. 11:19.600 --> 11:19.920 Right. 11:20.040 --> 11:25.300 Well, and you know, that's the other thing, too, is we're trying to keep a regularly scheduled 11:25.300 --> 11:28.900 show going here, and if we miss one, you know, I used to feel bad about it. 11:28.900 --> 11:32.360 At this point, there's nothing I can do, but with you guys, you know, you miss one 11:32.360 --> 11:34.100 day, two days even. 11:34.280 --> 11:38.100 You're doing 20 to 30 shows a month, for crying out loud. 11:38.200 --> 11:41.800 I mean, I don't think it's such a big deal if you miss one here and there. 11:42.720 --> 11:46.040 Yeah, we're up to, like, 258, I want to say. 11:46.160 --> 11:46.920 Something like that. 11:47.040 --> 11:49.420 Yeah, and we're only on 196 of VINREV, so. 11:50.480 --> 11:51.380 Yeah, yeah. 11:51.480 --> 11:55.000 And we've been running a little better than a year and a half. 11:55.000 --> 11:57.920 So, I've been doing it almost a year as the admin, so. 11:58.600 --> 11:58.780 Hmm. 11:59.280 --> 12:03.620 Oh, and actually, while we're, before we jump into the email here, one other little housekeeping 12:03.620 --> 12:07.920 thing, I guess, that just popped into my head is, I guess this is early shouts. 12:08.000 --> 12:10.440 Shouts over to the guys at the Lenox Link Tech Show. 12:10.600 --> 12:17.260 They are up to episode 198, possibly 199 by the time this is released. 12:17.260 --> 12:22.720 I don't remember exactly what the day is, but anyway, they are coming up on their 200th 12:22.720 --> 12:25.000 episode, so congratulations to them. 12:26.100 --> 12:27.460 Definitely go check them out. 12:27.460 --> 12:27.760 That's a lot of damn episodes. 12:28.100 --> 12:34.700 Yeah, lenoxlink.net, and of course, streaming on ddphackradio.org, so go check them out, 12:34.740 --> 12:35.420 listen to that show. 12:35.500 --> 12:36.480 They do good stuff. 12:37.760 --> 12:41.080 And, um, I think, you got anything else for housekeeping? 12:42.020 --> 12:43.040 No, that's about it. 12:43.040 --> 12:48.120 Yeah, we've already dragged that out as long as humanly possible, so let's do some email. 13:08.320 --> 13:11.900 Alright, so, our first email this week. 13:11.900 --> 13:13.400 How'd you like that little radio thing I did? 13:13.480 --> 13:13.780 Alright. 13:15.100 --> 13:15.580 That's the closest. 13:15.580 --> 13:16.480 Yeah, it was just dandy. 13:16.600 --> 13:19.020 That was the closest I get to, like, a normal radio voice. 13:19.080 --> 13:19.340 Alright. 13:21.160 --> 13:23.320 Our first email this week comes from Dr. Claw. 13:23.740 --> 13:24.300 I can't do it. 13:24.320 --> 13:25.180 I can't do a radio voice. 13:25.920 --> 13:26.200 I'm. 13:26.420 --> 13:27.800 You can't do the presence right deal? 13:28.100 --> 13:30.800 No, no, it just sounds so unnatural. 13:31.100 --> 13:34.820 Of course, I guess I probably sound unnatural anyway, but that's another topic. 13:35.160 --> 13:38.460 Alright, our first email this week comes from Dr. Claw. 13:38.460 --> 13:40.980 Dr. Claw says, 13:40.980 --> 13:47.220 I think the hacker, I think the hacker one of the hosts was talking about doing all the 13:47.220 --> 13:51.220 LexisNexis searches in episode 193 was probably Adrian Lamo. 13:51.620 --> 13:53.780 I'm kind of surprised no one got that. 13:54.200 --> 13:55.720 Sorry, I know this is really old. 13:55.900 --> 13:58.080 Sounds like the episode was from around Easter. 13:58.620 --> 14:04.440 I don't listen to the show much anymore, because sadly, there hasn't seemed to be much reason to. 14:04.440 --> 14:08.080 I like the new hosts, though, or, well, I assume they're new. 14:08.520 --> 14:10.120 Maybe they just did this episode. 14:10.620 --> 14:11.680 Nothing against Ratchet. 14:11.760 --> 14:13.600 I just don't like listening to his voice. 14:14.460 --> 14:18.060 I have a horrible voice, too, but then again, I don't do a podcast. 14:18.400 --> 14:23.940 Well, I guess I shouldn't drink an email, but I'm going to pretend to be a drunk driver 14:23.940 --> 14:29.540 and deny myself the ability to retrospectively decide not to click send 14:29.540 --> 14:32.060 and just go ahead and crash into a pedestrian. 14:32.060 --> 14:36.020 Adrian Hugs and Kisses DRC, Dr. Claw. 14:37.320 --> 14:42.820 So, on behalf of Enigma, I will accept those hugs and kisses and wait for more. 14:43.660 --> 14:44.340 Oh, thanks. 14:45.780 --> 14:51.060 And after I just made a comment about my voice, I don't know, Ratchet's voice is probably better than mine, 14:51.140 --> 14:54.920 so I don't know how, I think having Ratchet do the show was a huge step up. 14:55.200 --> 15:00.620 Now, this particular episode, we got another email of someone saying, confirming Adrian Lamo, too, 15:00.620 --> 15:04.960 and I didn't understand that email because I don't remember mentioning the topic, 15:05.060 --> 15:11.380 and then I realized that it was from episode 193 that was done by Faceman, Drake Anubis, Zal91. 15:11.600 --> 15:12.760 Who else was on that episode? 15:12.860 --> 15:13.180 Do you remember? 15:15.460 --> 15:16.520 I think that was it. 15:16.660 --> 15:17.640 I don't want to slight anybody. 15:17.860 --> 15:18.500 It was the girl at the beginning. 15:18.640 --> 15:19.800 Yeah, and I don't remember the name. 15:19.920 --> 15:20.280 I don't remember her name. 15:20.280 --> 15:23.780 Yeah, I don't want to slight her, but yeah, they picked up and did that show. 15:23.860 --> 15:25.540 That was really nice of them to pick up the slack. 15:26.100 --> 15:32.120 When we did miss that one or two shows there, of course, that just got worse, 15:32.260 --> 15:34.540 but, you know, at least they stepped up to do an episode, 15:34.740 --> 15:40.120 so they did that one that you heard around that time, so thanks again to them. 15:40.120 --> 15:45.000 As far as Ratchet, again, he's, I think he's probably got, him and Strom anyway, 15:45.500 --> 15:48.440 especially, both have, I thought, good radio voices, 15:48.660 --> 15:51.020 and, you know, Ratchet's just been a great host over the years. 15:51.140 --> 15:55.760 I mean, he did all of season three and a good bit of season four. 15:56.620 --> 15:58.720 It probably has been a long time since you listened, though, 15:58.740 --> 16:01.800 because Ratchet took over for season three, 16:01.920 --> 16:07.460 but then I took it back over for season four for, like, the first half of the season, 16:07.460 --> 16:12.560 and then Ratchet and some of the others took turns hosting here and there, 16:13.340 --> 16:15.600 but, I don't know, I think you might have been, 16:15.760 --> 16:17.400 you might have stopped listening for quite a while. 16:17.480 --> 16:19.300 You might want to go check the archive page 16:19.300 --> 16:22.660 and pull out some episodes here and there and see what you can find. 16:22.760 --> 16:24.540 Ratchet had some really great guests on there. 16:24.620 --> 16:26.880 They had Mark Spencer on the show. 16:27.040 --> 16:29.100 They had, actually, just go to the archives. 16:29.200 --> 16:31.460 They had a lot of great co-hosts on the show with them, 16:31.540 --> 16:33.820 so, I don't know, I'd say you're missing out 16:33.820 --> 16:36.540 if you didn't listen to the shows or some of the episodes that Ratchet did, 16:36.540 --> 16:39.380 so I'm going to stand out and say Ratchet did a pretty damn good job. 16:40.420 --> 16:41.380 Yeah, and I agree with you. 16:41.440 --> 16:42.800 He did a really good job. 16:43.000 --> 16:49.080 Anything after, like, episode 100 was pretty much him up to, like, 150-ish, 16:49.320 --> 16:50.040 something like that. 16:50.300 --> 16:51.240 That sounds about right. 16:51.240 --> 16:52.300 I have to do on the show notes. 16:52.560 --> 16:57.280 I have an intimate view of those. 16:57.280 --> 16:58.200 Exactly. 16:59.200 --> 17:01.680 And, you know, and I always said that I liked, you know, 17:02.100 --> 17:05.020 truth be told, I was kind of done after season two. 17:05.120 --> 17:08.660 I just needed, I had some life things going on, 17:08.720 --> 17:10.220 and I think I blogged about them at the time 17:10.220 --> 17:11.860 and had to kind of unplug for a little bit. 17:12.460 --> 17:16.000 So, the show would have been done then if it wasn't for Ratchet. 17:16.180 --> 17:19.720 So, you know, you guys definitely got to appreciate 17:19.720 --> 17:22.280 how much work and time it goes into doing this, 17:22.500 --> 17:24.060 and Ratchet really came through. 17:24.060 --> 17:26.000 So, I think he did a great job. 17:26.600 --> 17:29.560 And not only that, but it also made me realize 17:29.560 --> 17:32.840 that it's actually a good thing, at least in my opinion, 17:32.960 --> 17:35.380 to mix the show up and have it, you know, 17:35.480 --> 17:37.220 have different hosts and different guests, 17:37.380 --> 17:39.540 different topics, different viewpoints and opinions, 17:39.660 --> 17:42.300 because Ratchet and I agree on a lot of stuff, 17:42.360 --> 17:43.860 but we also disagree on a lot of stuff. 17:43.940 --> 17:46.660 So, it's good to hear an opposing viewpoint. 17:46.800 --> 17:48.060 There's nothing wrong with people disagreeing 17:48.580 --> 17:51.380 and saying something from a different point of view, 17:51.380 --> 17:53.940 and especially when kind of through season four here 17:53.940 --> 17:55.860 as we were swapping episodes back and forth, 17:55.940 --> 17:59.460 we'd sometimes follow up on dangling plots or comments 17:59.460 --> 18:01.320 from the other people who did the show. 18:01.480 --> 18:03.020 So, we'd have email feedback, 18:03.340 --> 18:05.200 and we'd kind of go back and forth on topics, 18:05.280 --> 18:07.520 which I thought kept it fresh and different. 18:07.720 --> 18:09.700 So, I kind of liked the fact that we had 18:09.700 --> 18:12.380 some different people hosting the show along the way. 18:12.380 --> 18:19.000 Which is why, again, Twatek, today with a techie. 18:19.960 --> 18:21.140 And actually, didn't that go through, 18:21.220 --> 18:23.500 didn't that go through a few iterations of names, too? 18:25.560 --> 18:27.180 That was before my time. 18:27.300 --> 18:32.080 That was more in Droops and Mr. Petrillo's time. 18:32.080 --> 18:35.420 Yeah, see, that was originally a playoff of... 18:35.420 --> 18:36.700 I believe it went through at least a couple. 18:37.020 --> 18:38.840 Yeah, that was a playoff of Twit Radio, 18:39.720 --> 18:42.820 which was This Week in Tech, I think is what that stood for. 18:43.540 --> 18:44.500 Yeah, I believe so, yeah. 18:44.500 --> 18:45.640 So, I think Twat was... 18:45.640 --> 18:46.340 And today with a techie. 18:46.460 --> 18:48.080 I think it originally, I think... 18:48.080 --> 18:48.800 Maybe I'm wrong. 18:48.860 --> 18:50.740 I thought it was Talk with a Techie Radio 18:50.740 --> 18:51.780 or something like that, 18:51.800 --> 18:55.300 and then became Today when it was a more regular daily show, 18:55.380 --> 18:57.200 although it's been pretty regular from the get-go. 18:58.160 --> 18:58.520 Yeah. 18:58.520 --> 19:02.060 But anyway, there, see, two pimps in this episode for that. 19:02.660 --> 19:03.720 And wait a minute, actually, you know what? 19:04.080 --> 19:05.300 Let's digress for a moment here. 19:05.380 --> 19:06.780 Weren't you guys in the magazine recently? 19:07.060 --> 19:09.800 Didn't you guys get some good notoriety or some good publicity? 19:10.420 --> 19:10.860 Was it Linux? 19:10.860 --> 19:12.060 Yeah, the Linux magazine. 19:12.400 --> 19:14.380 Linux magazine did a little segment, didn't they? 19:15.080 --> 19:15.360 Yep. 19:15.520 --> 19:19.460 I wonder what kind of hits or if that increased the listenership. 19:19.660 --> 19:20.880 Is that a word, listenership? 19:21.400 --> 19:22.680 The listenership of the show. 19:24.200 --> 19:24.840 From that. 19:25.840 --> 19:26.780 That was really cool. 19:26.860 --> 19:28.060 I was really proud to see that. 19:28.060 --> 19:28.960 But that was pretty good stuff. 19:30.300 --> 19:30.800 All right. 19:30.900 --> 19:31.840 Anyway, back to email. 19:31.960 --> 19:34.000 So we make sure we have time for our main topic tonight. 19:34.180 --> 19:37.480 Second email comes from Systems Glitch. 19:38.760 --> 19:40.040 Systems Glitch says, 19:40.180 --> 19:42.040 Stank Dog and or co-host. 19:43.760 --> 19:44.440 I'm not sure... 19:44.440 --> 19:46.980 Okay, playing the role of co-host tonight will be Enigma. 19:47.140 --> 19:48.360 Enigma, are you up for the job? 19:49.160 --> 19:50.120 I suppose so. 19:50.260 --> 19:50.500 Okay. 19:51.140 --> 19:52.280 Systems Glitch says, 19:52.280 --> 19:54.340 I'm not sure this is the right place for this message, 19:54.480 --> 19:55.280 but I didn't want to create... 19:55.280 --> 19:58.820 I didn't want to just create a forum topic about it. 19:59.220 --> 20:04.580 It seems like a lot of the forum members would be interested in a bin rev hardware swap section of the forums. 20:04.940 --> 20:06.660 Would setting this up be possible? 20:06.940 --> 20:11.300 If no one else is willing to run it, I can handle it at least until school starts back. 20:11.300 --> 20:16.240 I'd imagined it as a section of forums open only to people approved for it, 20:16.260 --> 20:19.500 sort of like the Agents of the Revolution section mentioned in the radio show, 20:20.000 --> 20:25.940 but less restricted as to allow forum members access to it. 20:26.320 --> 20:30.340 Perhaps base admission on length of time as a forum member, post count, etc. 20:30.340 --> 20:35.320 Naturally, it would be disagreeable to have just anyone posting in a section for swapping hardware. 20:35.880 --> 20:38.820 I'm not sure if there's too much liability issue for this sort of thing. 20:39.260 --> 20:42.040 Anyway, just an idea I've been thinking about for a while. 20:42.440 --> 20:44.840 Keep up the great job with the radio show. 20:45.920 --> 20:46.440 All right. 20:46.520 --> 20:47.540 Thank you, Systems Glitch. 20:47.620 --> 20:48.020 Yes. 20:48.780 --> 20:51.600 We have discussed this on multiple occasions. 20:52.280 --> 20:54.860 A few years ago, we even tried it. 20:56.800 --> 20:57.860 Discussed hits. 20:58.060 --> 20:59.440 See, I don't spell check the show notes. 20:59.440 --> 21:02.060 Discussed this a few years ago. 21:02.120 --> 21:03.580 We discussed hits a few years ago. 21:04.160 --> 21:08.680 And we did try it, and it did not get a lot of traffic. 21:09.520 --> 21:16.860 One of the things about running the forum is there's a very fine line between too many forums and not enough forums. 21:17.560 --> 21:21.240 So we don't mind trying them here and there, and people are always requesting, 21:21.380 --> 21:24.960 well, can somebody create this new forum or that new forum or whatever? 21:24.960 --> 21:30.260 You know, every time somebody suggests that we do stop and think about it, discuss it, 21:30.520 --> 21:39.060 we analyze is there really enough topic, is there going to be enough traffic to justify adding another forum to the forums. 21:39.160 --> 21:40.980 Is that the proper terminology, I guess? 21:40.980 --> 21:42.980 There's another section to the forums for that. 21:43.600 --> 21:46.980 I don't want to have to scroll down 20 pages to see all. 21:47.100 --> 21:47.680 That's one thing. 21:47.720 --> 21:53.360 You ever see a lot of people that will start forums, and they'll have so freaking many different sections? 21:53.360 --> 22:02.840 They'll have a Windows section, a Mac section, and then they'll have a Linux section with 40 different subsections for each distro they can think of. 22:03.060 --> 22:10.500 And, I mean, it's just like, it's really hard to balance how much is too much. 22:10.500 --> 22:19.660 So what we ended up doing was joining topics like you're proposing, anything about selling, trading, stuff like that, into the links section. 22:20.280 --> 22:32.660 And the links is where you can post links to just any kind of cool random thing that you found, links to YouTube videos, links to blog posts that you've read, presentations. 22:32.920 --> 22:33.660 Well, anything. 22:33.860 --> 22:36.440 I mean, I can't even sit here and list them all, but any kind of link. 22:36.440 --> 22:40.180 But it also doubles, and you can read the description on it. 22:40.240 --> 22:51.480 You can also, it's one safe place in the forums when you can kind of sort of post spam, insofar as any items that you may have for sale or trade or whatnot. 22:52.600 --> 22:56.180 Not spamming sites, not coming in, no referral links. 22:56.260 --> 22:58.060 That's still against the rules, even in this forum. 22:58.820 --> 23:00.100 So don't get too happy. 23:00.180 --> 23:02.140 I'm not saying that that's a free, anything goes. 23:02.140 --> 23:09.080 You can post wares or spam outright in there. 23:09.400 --> 23:16.740 But if you do have something for sale as a reasonable person in your eBay, Craigslist, stuff like that, you are welcome to do it there. 23:16.740 --> 23:32.420 The reason that we kind of have always gone against a more organized way of doing it is because from my standpoint as the owner of the site and having to be the one who's responsible for all of it is it does create some liability issues for me. 23:33.580 --> 23:36.600 I can't vouch for all of the members, all the forums. 23:36.880 --> 23:39.240 And legally, I can't vouch for any of them. 23:39.240 --> 23:45.040 And some of them, like Enigma, I wouldn't vouch for because they're just not, no, I'm just kidding. 23:46.400 --> 23:47.460 I'll vouch for Enigma. 23:47.600 --> 23:48.420 But nobody else. 23:48.720 --> 23:49.460 Nobody else. 23:49.960 --> 23:57.140 And the first time that one of these deals fell through, somebody ran off with their money, everything turned sour, and the shit hits the fan, as they say. 23:57.140 --> 24:11.080 Okay, then we got people that are mad at us saying that we should have done something about it or demand, give me this person's IP address and email and his information, and I'm just not going to do that. 24:11.200 --> 24:12.160 I respect privacy. 24:12.280 --> 24:15.120 I've never given up anything from the forums, any of that kind of stuff. 24:15.660 --> 24:18.140 We work very hard to protect even email addresses. 24:18.300 --> 24:19.980 No one can get email addresses. 24:20.140 --> 24:23.140 The spiders can't come in and harvest your email address. 24:23.140 --> 24:31.860 The only thing that you could be giving up voluntarily is if you decide to put in your AIM account number or something like that or Yahoo Messenger or something like that. 24:31.940 --> 24:40.600 But we don't give that kind of stuff up unless it's something very, very serious that we feel it's the right thing to do. 24:40.600 --> 24:53.120 And I don't want to be put in a situation where somebody says, okay, this guy ripped me off for $200, $2,000, whatever, and then never gave me the item or whatever it is. 24:53.480 --> 24:55.320 And it has already happened on the forums. 24:55.440 --> 25:00.800 There have been people that have worked out deals and then didn't get what they were expecting or didn't get anything. 25:01.480 --> 25:02.560 Somebody just disappeared. 25:02.780 --> 25:06.460 So I don't want to put myself in the middle of that, and it's just not safe. 25:06.700 --> 25:13.700 So we can't really make a section because then we're endorsing it, and we become legally liable for the stuff that happens there. 25:13.700 --> 25:19.740 And not to mention, I don't even want to think about would there be tax implications for us as the middleman or any kind of weirdness. 25:20.600 --> 25:21.280 There might be laws. 25:21.280 --> 25:33.300 And plus, would you really want the administrative headache of all of it, adding another forum and adding all the users' complaints and so on and so forth, like you were saying? 25:33.300 --> 25:35.820 And he volunteered to try to run some of it. 25:36.000 --> 25:37.080 But, yeah, it's appreciated. 25:37.300 --> 25:42.480 But, no, the best thing is, and I still think what we came up with, is you can use the links section. 25:42.960 --> 25:50.980 You're free to post in that forum about what items you might have for trade or sale on eBay, Craigslist, or if you're just trading on your own blog. 25:50.980 --> 25:59.600 Or you can use the links section to say, you know, here, I have the following items, and I'm looking to trade them or give them away. 25:59.840 --> 26:04.220 I think there's one down and off topic right now that could easily be moved up into the links section. 26:04.480 --> 26:09.260 But, you know, whatever, that is safe to post in the links section. 26:09.340 --> 26:11.480 It's probably the best place to put it. 26:12.140 --> 26:18.240 But, yeah, I think that's best because just like anywhere else on the interweb, people can rip you off. 26:18.300 --> 26:20.440 I can't tell you, everybody in the forum, I don't know. 26:20.440 --> 26:22.880 We have 7,000 or something registered members. 26:22.980 --> 26:23.400 Is that right? 26:23.540 --> 26:24.120 6,000? 26:24.220 --> 26:24.340 I don't know. 26:24.340 --> 26:26.160 Yeah, I think it's higher than that. 26:26.220 --> 26:27.120 I thought it was 10,000. 26:27.280 --> 26:27.740 Is it really? 26:27.820 --> 26:28.500 Oh, my gosh. 26:29.520 --> 26:34.060 Yeah, I think I saw 10,000 posts or 10,000 registered users. 26:34.600 --> 26:35.760 I know a lot of them. 26:35.760 --> 26:38.780 I know a lot of people, but I don't know 10,000. 26:43.640 --> 26:48.820 Anyway, I mean, do you think we can justify adding another forum? 26:48.960 --> 26:49.700 I mean, what do you think? 26:50.440 --> 26:53.100 No, I think it's too much of a headache. 26:53.660 --> 26:58.140 And the legal issues just make it very unusable. 26:58.340 --> 27:02.480 Just use eBay or some other type of service like that Craigslist. 27:02.480 --> 27:07.300 And then link it, you know, you're welcome to link it here because people would be interested in that stuff, obviously. 27:07.720 --> 27:13.420 So, like one of my favorite threads that comes up once in a while is usually it's in the freaking section. 27:13.520 --> 27:21.100 They'll do an eBay roundup or somebody will post a bunch of the links of things that are on sale on eBay that might be of interest to people in the forums. 27:21.100 --> 27:22.600 I think that's a great thread. 27:22.700 --> 27:23.540 I love seeing that. 27:23.620 --> 27:24.580 I think that's very interesting. 27:25.220 --> 27:29.420 I wish somebody did that with hacking type things maybe every Monday or something like that. 27:29.460 --> 27:31.700 If somebody wants to volunteer for that, step on up. 27:31.800 --> 27:32.260 Email us. 27:33.300 --> 27:34.340 Yeah, knock yourself out. 27:34.560 --> 27:35.020 There you go. 27:35.020 --> 27:39.260 There was 7,700 registered members. 27:39.380 --> 27:39.920 Oh, yeah, that's a lot. 27:39.920 --> 27:41.660 With 10,000 posts was what I saw. 27:42.100 --> 27:53.180 Yeah, there's probably more attempted registrations in the system of people who never finished filling out their submission, 27:53.320 --> 27:55.580 didn't verify their email address, et cetera, et cetera. 27:55.580 --> 28:06.240 So, actually, that's a common question that I get asked is why don't the member numbers that are assigned match the total number of members at the bottom? 28:06.380 --> 28:11.240 And it's because there's a lot of gaps that get stuck in there where people never register, never finish registering. 28:11.400 --> 28:12.360 There's a lot of gaps in there. 28:12.460 --> 28:14.020 A lot of them are spam bots. 28:14.120 --> 28:16.580 A lot of them are people who just don't bother coming back. 28:16.660 --> 28:20.400 They just become registering and they never confirm it. 28:20.400 --> 28:31.080 So, probably 10,000 is what the numbering is up to in the database, but 7,700 on the forums and counting. 28:32.940 --> 28:34.620 All right, let's see. 28:34.840 --> 28:35.600 Yeah, let's hurry up. 28:35.700 --> 28:39.100 Boy, this, as usual, I go rambling on and on and on. 28:39.520 --> 28:42.660 Email number three this week comes from Swooz. 28:42.920 --> 28:44.280 That's kind of a fun word to say. 28:44.880 --> 28:45.320 Swooz. 28:46.080 --> 28:46.840 Swooz says, 28:46.840 --> 28:52.920 Dear hosts, I live in a secure, gated community and the entrance gate is constantly broken. 28:53.500 --> 28:58.760 Either it is wide open or our clicker will not open it at all, nor will the access code. 28:59.360 --> 29:02.640 I would like to see possibly even a partial episode on this subject. 29:02.980 --> 29:09.440 I know some of you guys are from Florida, perhaps in the same, but perhaps in the same episode we could discuss SunPass. 29:10.000 --> 29:15.320 I don't see a show, I didn't see a show this week and just wondering if you guys might have been scrounging for topics. 29:15.320 --> 29:17.160 Keep up the good work. 29:17.860 --> 29:18.960 Thank you, Swooz. 29:19.280 --> 29:21.240 Nope, not scrounging for topics at all. 29:21.380 --> 29:23.540 I mean, again, I can talk for freaking ever. 29:23.640 --> 29:25.180 I've always got topics and content. 29:25.320 --> 29:26.000 It's not that. 29:26.100 --> 29:31.920 It's the time, unfortunately, that's caused us to miss a few episodes of the show or a few weeks of the show, I should say. 29:31.920 --> 29:40.520 However, we are still working our way towards episode 200, so be looking out for a special episode 200. 29:40.680 --> 29:41.580 I've got some outtakes. 29:41.680 --> 29:46.780 I've got some ideas and plans in mind for that, so make sure you come back for that episode. 29:47.320 --> 29:50.700 As far as the ideas, those two topics, I think those are great. 29:50.880 --> 29:52.240 I think those are great ideas. 29:52.240 --> 29:56.820 Again, enigmas here in Florida, I know we've seen a lot of gated communities. 29:57.000 --> 30:04.600 I lived down in South Florida until a few years ago, so down there it was enormously common. 30:04.720 --> 30:11.640 I lived in a gated community down there for many, many years, so I know a lot about the systems that we had and some others. 30:11.640 --> 30:13.320 So I'm going to ask around. 30:13.420 --> 30:21.240 I have some friends down there that may be able to give us some information and co-host a show that know a little bit more about those topics. 30:22.300 --> 30:27.800 And actually, Right Coast and I have done some discussion at our BR407 meetings about the SunPass system, 30:27.920 --> 30:36.180 which, for those who don't know, is the little RFID or the little radio sensor you put in your car for the toll road system. 30:36.180 --> 30:42.040 So you might have to ask around and see what we can come up with for that. 30:43.220 --> 30:50.560 Yeah, the SunPass is very, I'll say, interesting, some of the implications of that RFID. 30:51.700 --> 30:55.000 Yeah, I don't know if it's – yeah, I probably shouldn't say RFID. 30:55.060 --> 30:55.920 I don't know if it – is it RFID? 30:55.920 --> 30:56.740 It's not RFID. 30:56.960 --> 30:59.280 It's actually just an old-fashioned radio frequency. 30:59.380 --> 31:03.680 I think it's actually – I think it actually runs on a satellite band, if I'm not mistaken. 31:03.680 --> 31:10.840 But we'll do the research and check that out as I take a sip of my iced tea. 31:12.000 --> 31:13.380 There you go. 31:13.440 --> 31:14.260 I got my iced tea. 31:14.540 --> 31:15.040 You know what? 31:15.100 --> 31:20.940 I should totally sell out and, like, pimp some brand of iced tea and get free iced tea for the rest of my life. 31:21.600 --> 31:22.380 I'm sure you could. 31:22.700 --> 31:23.880 Yeah, probably not. 31:25.180 --> 31:27.260 Nobody wants to be associated with a hacking show. 31:28.580 --> 31:31.540 Well, all right. 31:31.540 --> 31:49.200 Let's wrap up the mailbag for this week, and that leaves us anywhere from 30 more to, say, 50 more minutes to talk about our main topic tonight, which is closed-circuit television, which I think a couple of people have asked about doing an episode on this. 31:49.400 --> 31:53.340 So Enigma has stepped up this episode to do some research. 31:53.340 --> 31:57.860 And, actually, you already had some experience in this topic anyway. 31:58.680 --> 32:01.160 So let's start this off. 32:01.220 --> 32:03.700 Now, I am pretty ignorant about this topic. 32:04.140 --> 32:07.340 So let me – let's start off with a little, like, baseline. 32:07.520 --> 32:14.360 Let's get everybody understanding what CCTV or closed-circuit television is, first of all. 32:14.360 --> 32:19.160 There's – you know, when we think television, the obvious thing is broadcast television. 32:19.280 --> 32:23.540 That's the antenna that you have on your house, which antennas aren't around much these days anymore. 32:23.660 --> 32:35.840 But you used to have antennas on your house that are picking up signals being broadcast by a big tower somewhere in your area, your local channels and whatnot, that are coming over the air. 32:35.920 --> 32:37.240 It's all FCC-controlled. 32:37.240 --> 32:50.720 These are the NBCs, the CBS, the et cetera, et cetera, Fox, whatever, they're out there these days, that are being sent out for everybody in their homes with the proper equipment to pick these up and display them on their television. 32:51.800 --> 32:54.540 Cable is hardwired. 32:54.980 --> 33:04.860 A cable company intercepting or picking up their signals, usually through satellites and whatever methods they're using, and then distributing those to your cable box out to the homes. 33:04.860 --> 33:07.160 They've run fiber out to all the homes. 33:07.240 --> 33:09.300 You've got the coax running in, delivering your signal. 33:11.100 --> 33:22.820 You've got satellite, which is another similar thing, blasting the satellite, and then you buy the DISH network or DirecTV is the other one, and pulling down the signals and displaying them on your television that way. 33:23.080 --> 33:27.420 These are all being broadcast in some form or other. 33:28.260 --> 33:33.540 But closed-circuit television is something different than all of that. 33:33.540 --> 33:35.600 Is that a correct statement? 33:36.700 --> 33:36.960 Yes. 33:37.520 --> 33:48.260 The CCTV system is completely enclosed, as in it only sends the signals to specific monitors, specific recording equipment. 33:48.540 --> 33:53.540 It's not broadcast for everybody to see and or hear. 33:54.280 --> 33:58.340 You can broadcast audio, video, you know, whatever you need. 33:58.340 --> 34:05.660 So, the difference between those other ones that we talked about is it's not sent out with the intent of many people watching it. 34:05.880 --> 34:07.500 It's sent to one location. 34:08.400 --> 34:08.660 Correct. 34:08.820 --> 34:18.020 Most of the time it's sent to a recorder, either a time-flop VCR or a DVR, and recorded, and also displayed on monitors. 34:18.020 --> 34:29.420 You see those monitors that are in split channels that have multiple cameras that you can view in, like, you know, grocery stores, department stores. 34:29.940 --> 34:35.620 I used to work in a correctional facility that we had, you know, like 52 cameras on four monitors. 34:36.480 --> 34:37.460 So, yeah. 34:37.920 --> 34:38.880 Did you work in Oz? 34:40.140 --> 34:41.180 No, I didn't work in Oz. 34:41.420 --> 34:41.760 You sure? 34:41.840 --> 34:43.320 I could have sworn I saw you on there one time. 34:44.080 --> 34:45.060 No, no, no. 34:45.060 --> 34:45.700 All right. 34:46.000 --> 34:46.560 Just checking. 34:47.020 --> 34:49.580 Well, what else is different about closed circuit, then? 34:49.840 --> 34:50.500 I mean, how, what? 34:52.200 --> 35:04.060 It basically is for the intent of the business or the entity that actually set it up. 35:04.600 --> 35:08.340 It is not meant for any type of broadcast. 35:08.340 --> 35:13.180 So, like, I'm sorry. 35:13.480 --> 35:18.280 So, I was just going to say, like, many, in case it's not, I think most of our listeners have seen these. 35:18.380 --> 35:25.280 If we're not being clear, these are like, you go into, like, a gas station, for example, or a grocery store, I think you said a minute ago. 35:25.780 --> 35:34.220 Any of those places where you see the little, and usually the cheaper systems, the lower, they're just little black and white, gray scale, where you'll see one or two different things. 35:34.220 --> 35:49.220 Somebody will look up on a monitor to see, oh, there's somebody at pump number four, or there's somebody down this aisle of the grocery store, or just any number of businesses, where they've got cameras that are sending a constant signal that somebody's monitoring. 35:49.360 --> 35:58.680 Whether it's somebody in the back room doing security, or whether it's, you know, just someone monitoring in a gas station to see when a new customer drives up that they might not see. 35:59.660 --> 35:59.900 Right. 36:00.000 --> 36:00.940 Most people have seen these. 36:00.940 --> 36:02.560 And, like, fast food restaurants as well. 36:02.900 --> 36:03.100 Yeah. 36:03.180 --> 36:10.220 They have a camera out on the drive-in to catch the customers coming in that they can see. 36:10.640 --> 36:11.620 Yeah, I forgot. 36:11.740 --> 36:12.180 That's a good one. 36:12.220 --> 36:13.140 I see those all the time. 36:13.140 --> 36:35.960 And, basically, you can get as complex as, like we had at the correctional facility, where we had 52 cameras, all color monitors, and color cameras, and we had, like, 170-degree field-of-view cameras that, you know, were a couple hundred dollars a piece, viewing, like, dorms. 36:37.180 --> 36:37.420 So... 36:37.420 --> 36:38.240 Right, yeah, and these... 36:38.240 --> 36:39.980 It all depends on how much money you want to spend. 36:39.980 --> 36:48.000 Yeah, and, actually, another example that pops in the head is in a lot of department stores, you see those little domed cameras in the ceilings that are the same thing. 36:48.000 --> 36:50.420 Now, some of those also could be dummies. 36:51.000 --> 36:51.340 Right. 36:51.340 --> 36:58.040 A lot of places will put up dummy of those little domes, so you don't know where the camera is. 36:58.180 --> 37:04.200 And most of them are black, so you can't see where the camera's actually pointed. 37:04.200 --> 37:15.500 And I have heard from ReliableSource that they actually will move the dummies around and swap them with real ones occasionally, so that people don't always know where the dummies are if they were to find out. 37:16.520 --> 37:16.820 So, that's... 37:16.820 --> 37:22.560 We used to do that at the place I used to work at, so they could never tell where we were actually recording. 37:22.560 --> 37:24.860 Very good, very good. 37:25.280 --> 37:35.340 All right, well, you know, we talked about some business uses of them, but maybe we should back up, actually, and maybe talk about personal uses, because they're not only for business. 37:35.600 --> 37:40.960 The prices on these things have come down tremendously in the past few years. 37:41.040 --> 37:46.000 You can go into Best Lie and Circuit Shitty and any number of stores. 37:46.160 --> 37:49.020 I don't know, even Walmart probably is carrying stuff like this now. 37:49.020 --> 37:51.140 Yeah, they do. 37:51.360 --> 37:54.440 They carry a full camera unit with a monitor. 37:54.840 --> 37:57.100 What are people doing with these at their home? 37:57.180 --> 38:01.780 Obviously, you can use it for your own personal security, but there are other valid uses. 38:02.800 --> 38:11.200 Yeah, you can use them to monitor pets, check for packages and mail on the outside of your door, like if somebody comes up and swipes a package. 38:12.020 --> 38:14.080 You can use them to monitor your garage. 38:14.080 --> 38:18.280 You can monitor your house on vacation. 38:18.960 --> 38:30.800 A lot of the units now, some of the higher-end DVRs have web interfaces that you can actually dial into from an outside line and basically sit and watch your house. 38:32.180 --> 38:40.220 And again, it can be set up with alarms, so you can get a text message on your pinger if something were to go wrong. 38:40.220 --> 38:44.640 Mainly, I've seen a lot of archived video surveillance. 38:46.680 --> 38:48.100 Basically, same principle. 38:48.940 --> 38:55.560 It will archive on the DVR and it will be purged every once in a while when your hard drive fills up. 38:56.560 --> 39:02.840 Or, of course, you can take that hard drive and roll it out and archive it with a date stamp and put in a new one. 39:02.840 --> 39:16.640 Yeah, some of the higher-ends actually have a backup feature on the DVR unit itself that can be pumped out to a computer with a bigger hard drive if you wanted, or pump the DVD or whatever. 39:16.640 --> 39:27.800 Yeah, I like the idea of having one at the front door, not only for the security aspect, but yeah, that would be great if I'm at work and expecting a package delivery or something at the house. 39:27.800 --> 39:38.960 I can look and see if I've got a computer sitting on my front porch that's been delivered, like I recently had a NAS device that was sitting on my front porch waiting for me until I got home. 39:39.400 --> 39:48.820 Safe neighborhood and everything is usually pretty good, but if I saw that there at lunch, I could check my house, see that it's sitting there, and zip home for lunch to make sure I take it inside or something like that. 39:48.880 --> 39:51.820 So that's pretty handy for somebody like me who gets a lot of packages. 39:52.840 --> 39:57.520 Or we could just live across the street from work like I do and walk home for lunch. 39:57.800 --> 39:59.200 But that's, I digress. 39:59.360 --> 40:01.360 Yeah, that would be, that's really nice. 40:01.420 --> 40:08.160 That's really convenient, but, and obviously you mentioned monitoring pets, babies, stuff like that. 40:08.400 --> 40:11.200 Maybe babies and pets at the same time, but whatever. 40:12.280 --> 40:12.560 Whatever. 40:13.160 --> 40:15.540 I don't have to worry about that one, as far as I know. 40:19.140 --> 40:24.780 And let's see, and you talked about, yeah, a lot of them are offering internet access now where you can go to a web GUI remotely. 40:24.780 --> 40:32.100 Probably could go into another tangent about how to make that externally accessible and firewalls and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 40:32.240 --> 40:33.500 Oh, yeah, yeah. 40:34.000 --> 40:39.760 And actually there's also something really cool feature is, you know, obviously this takes up disk space. 40:40.000 --> 40:51.500 It's constantly recording, but there are actually features, there's a way you can set these up so that they only activate or start recording when it detects motion. 40:51.500 --> 40:55.960 Yeah, we had that actually set up at the facility I worked at. 40:56.680 --> 40:59.420 We would only record motion. 40:59.960 --> 41:00.240 Right. 41:00.240 --> 41:10.980 And a lot of times you'll get changes in light that will kick off the motion sensor, which is kind of, it's good and bad. 41:11.640 --> 41:21.940 I mean, you set it so, how do you say, so tight that it will kick off the motion sensor. 41:21.940 --> 41:30.880 But if you back it off enough, it will, you know, allow some motion, and that's not really good when you're monitoring kids. 41:31.720 --> 41:32.400 Oh, for sure. 41:32.420 --> 41:36.860 And the kid walks in a room and just stays up against the wall, and he barely moves. 41:37.180 --> 41:41.540 Yeah, it's definitely, yeah, it definitely depends on what your application is. 41:41.540 --> 41:45.920 If you're monitoring your baby, you want to have it running all the time and reliable. 41:46.180 --> 41:56.760 But, like, again, if you're on vacation and you've got it washing, watching your kitchen or your, I think, washing machine example you used of making sure something's not flooding your house. 41:57.320 --> 42:00.700 You know, you can have it watching, and nothing's ever going to change there. 42:00.700 --> 42:10.500 I mean, some light might come in from outside, but if it actually detects motion, such as water flowing out of your washing machine onto the floor, then that's something that would be nice to know. 42:10.720 --> 42:21.920 Even if there were some false positives of light sensitivity that triggered once in a while, it's still better than having it running constantly, looking at, waiting for an event to happen that may never happen. 42:22.020 --> 42:26.880 So it definitely depends on what your application is or what your intent for the use of this is. 42:26.880 --> 42:31.440 Yeah, again, it all depends on the application. 42:32.720 --> 42:37.160 In a household environment, you don't really care much. 42:37.540 --> 42:42.040 You can set it to the lowest setting, and you should be fine on the motion sensor. 42:42.040 --> 42:54.820 But in a more practical environment or, you know, the example I said of the kids in a correctional facility, you might want to turn it up a bit, just a bit. 42:54.820 --> 43:05.200 Yeah, and some of the high-end models of these, I've seen some before that will text message your cell phone or even call your cell phone. 43:05.200 --> 43:21.960 And even, I think there was one that even had a cell phone application you could put on, like, your Windows mobile phone or your Palm phone or something, Palm OS, that you could put on there that would just, you could, if you had the internet access through the phone, you could pop on and check it through the phone with a specialized interface. 43:21.960 --> 43:25.480 But that's usually on the higher-end home models. 43:25.600 --> 43:31.920 And you're really now getting up into the business models, which really have even more features and are more powerful. 43:33.020 --> 43:34.960 So what kind of business... 43:34.960 --> 43:45.040 Most of them can do all those features on the higher-end, but on the basic models, you don't even most of the time get a web interface. 43:45.320 --> 43:48.960 It's just kind of sitting there as a brick on the DVRs. 43:50.580 --> 43:51.620 But they're getting there. 43:52.300 --> 43:57.240 I think I saw one that was a four-channel with a web interface for, like, a couple hundred hours. 43:57.240 --> 44:06.980 Well, businesses we talked about earlier that are using these things, what are some of the reasons that a business would want something like this? 44:07.000 --> 44:13.420 We talked about the home ones, but businesses, probably the main thing, and correct me if I'm wrong here, would be for security. 44:14.460 --> 44:14.940 Oh, yeah. 44:15.360 --> 44:17.300 Security is the number one concern. 44:17.300 --> 44:27.680 And a lot of times, you will have them in, like, a bank or a casino or an airport, monitoring pretty much everything. 44:27.860 --> 44:35.160 I mean, the casino I was in, like, last week when I went to Vegas, you'd be surprised at how many cameras there actually are. 44:35.520 --> 44:44.320 Although I did see, in the hotel itself, I was surprised I didn't see a camera actually in the hallway, which I was shocked. 44:44.540 --> 44:47.100 Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there. 44:47.820 --> 44:49.020 Oh, that's true. 44:49.160 --> 44:53.440 I mean, but I was shocked not to see a dome somewhere in that hallway. 44:53.800 --> 44:55.100 Yeah, Vegas is famous. 44:55.240 --> 44:58.520 The casinos are famous for having just the highest-end systems. 44:58.520 --> 45:07.260 And you can imagine how much data storage they need and the systems they have to maintain and store that stuff for years and years upon end. 45:07.360 --> 45:12.000 They need to be able to watch people over long periods of time and trends and patterns. 45:12.320 --> 45:15.520 And, yeah, they're storing tremendous amounts of data in casinos. 45:15.520 --> 45:20.560 I mean, Vegas, you can pretty much assume you're on camera 24-7 in that city. 45:21.660 --> 45:22.040 Oh, yeah. 45:22.200 --> 45:26.500 And it must be insane storage space, terabytes upon terabytes. 45:26.500 --> 45:34.500 It's, I know what we used at the correctional facility, and we were using 500 gig easy a month. 45:34.500 --> 45:39.740 So, that would do it insane quick. 45:40.080 --> 45:41.100 It's got to add up. 45:41.100 --> 45:50.380 Well, and another cool use, and one of the good uses, it's not only because we probably will touch on this a little bit later about some of the privacy aspects. 45:50.500 --> 45:52.520 People don't like the cameras in certain places. 45:52.520 --> 46:03.280 But one of the great applications of it is that there are some places where you can't or shouldn't, we'll say, have a human being. 46:03.380 --> 46:04.800 It's a dangerous environment. 46:04.960 --> 46:06.640 It's a dangerous place for somebody to be. 46:07.040 --> 46:13.880 And instead of putting a human being in that dangerous area, why not put a camera out there that can do the job just as well? 46:13.880 --> 46:15.300 Mm-hmm. 46:15.400 --> 46:25.780 I can't think of, like, a CERT-specific example, but I'm thinking, I don't know, cleaning out toxic waste or checking dangerous electrical areas or something like that. 46:25.800 --> 46:34.000 If you can just have a camera there that checks to make sure that nothing's leaking radioactive material, it's a little bit better to have a camera there than a human. 46:35.180 --> 46:43.180 And a lot of times, the little robots or the little crawlers will have a camera on the front of them, and that's a cool little application for that. 46:43.180 --> 46:45.840 And that's still considered closed-circuit television. 46:45.980 --> 46:51.440 Just because it's mobile or moving or on a robot doesn't mean it's any different. 46:51.600 --> 46:57.620 It's still closed-circuit television technology for whatever you want to call it. 46:58.460 --> 46:59.440 Whatever you want to call it. 46:59.440 --> 47:00.100 It's your show. 47:00.220 --> 47:01.300 You can call it whatever you want. 47:02.320 --> 47:05.100 That doesn't mean that it's going to be right, but I'll call it what I want. 47:05.620 --> 47:07.160 Well, where do you want to go from here? 47:07.220 --> 47:10.180 What else do you want to talk about here on this topic? 47:10.180 --> 47:14.160 I think we've got everybody understanding exactly what we're referring to. 47:14.240 --> 47:17.020 Most people probably have seen them or maybe have some of their own. 47:18.820 --> 47:20.720 Where do you want to drive this here? 47:20.760 --> 47:21.560 Where do you want to take this? 47:22.740 --> 47:29.340 Well, let's talk about the application of it in a business. 47:29.340 --> 47:36.280 We'll break it down by steps. 47:37.080 --> 47:47.760 Basically, you would have the – I want to briefly go over how it's built, how the TV system is installed and maintained. 47:47.760 --> 47:50.520 And you obviously have cameras. 47:51.980 --> 48:01.720 Depending on your application, you'll have a time-lapse VCR in an older system or a new DVR. 48:02.400 --> 48:07.020 You'd have a specialized monitor that can do multiple channels and multiple inputs. 48:07.020 --> 48:18.460 Sometimes you'll have audio, which is a really cool application because on some of the DVRs, you'll have audio inputs that you can record, audio as well as video. 48:18.980 --> 48:20.180 I always think that's cool. 48:20.340 --> 48:21.280 I don't know why I'm lame. 48:22.480 --> 48:31.980 Well, then you get into sensitivity of microphones and a lot of configuring and setting up for that as well, but definitely something very cool. 48:31.980 --> 48:39.100 Yeah, we opted not to do the audio part where I used to work. 48:39.440 --> 48:48.180 It's very difficult in a noisy dorm to distinguish any audio whatsoever. 48:49.040 --> 48:53.700 So it's kind of a moot point, plus we were short on storage space. 48:54.440 --> 49:00.740 So, I mean, in some applications it would be good, but in most you're not going to find audio. 49:00.740 --> 49:07.640 Well, even in Vegas we were talking about, even the casinos, I would be surprised, even though it's high-end and everything they've got, 49:07.720 --> 49:15.600 I'd be surprised if they were doing audio because there's just too much background noise going on with all the bells and whistles and chings and slot machines and everything that's going on. 49:15.920 --> 49:18.600 I don't know if they'd be able to isolate any useful sound anyway. 49:18.760 --> 49:24.400 Maybe there's certain areas, but out in the main casino, I think it'd be hard to isolate anybody's voice or anything useful. 49:25.280 --> 49:28.140 So why bother using the bandwidth or the storage space? 49:28.140 --> 49:35.100 Yeah. I can't see any application off the top of my head that would use audio. 49:36.120 --> 49:37.520 I'm trying to think of something. 49:37.760 --> 49:46.460 Well, if there was like, there's been, I've heard, or seen, I should say, videos where people would meet in a dark alleyway and make a drug deal 49:46.460 --> 49:53.420 and they have the audio on camera so that they have the stuff they need to prosecute, or inside of an elevator they'll be able to pick up the audio. 49:53.520 --> 49:56.940 People have a tendency to think they're private in an elevator with one other person. 49:57.040 --> 50:02.140 They can quietly whisper to each other or whatever, and that's been picked up with audio. 50:02.140 --> 50:12.460 So anything that's going to be an enclosed room where there's not a lot of background noise, then it's, you know, it may be, even if it's not intentionally there to trap something, 50:12.580 --> 50:17.740 it's not, there's no reason not to have it running when it's definitely a silent environment like that. 50:18.100 --> 50:20.120 Again, other than storage space and bandwidth. 50:20.120 --> 50:31.080 Usually I think that happens when the police or some, one of the three-letter agencies is doing an operation where they know and expect something to happen 50:31.080 --> 50:35.500 and they set up so they get high quality video, audio, everything that they need. 50:35.820 --> 50:42.120 So, you know, just, we're kind of been thinking about this from a standpoint of ongoing monitoring, 50:42.980 --> 50:46.560 putting them in a business where they're constantly always there, always running, 50:46.560 --> 50:53.080 but they could certainly be thrown up in a pinch for a sting operation of some kind, things like that. 50:53.140 --> 51:02.760 They can be thrown up there in a short time and check for, you know, monitor for high quality video and audio for a short period of time 51:02.760 --> 51:06.720 and not really have to worry so much about storage space as long as they get what they need. 51:07.820 --> 51:13.980 And I thought of another application of CCTV police cams on the patrol cars. 51:14.660 --> 51:15.020 Oh, yeah. 51:15.020 --> 51:16.500 That would be another application. 51:16.840 --> 51:17.460 Yep, yep. 51:17.480 --> 51:18.940 You get some great videos from those. 51:19.960 --> 51:20.600 Yeah, yeah. 51:20.680 --> 51:21.180 Core TV. 51:21.440 --> 51:21.980 Gotta love it. 51:22.140 --> 51:22.800 Gotta love that. 51:25.020 --> 51:31.500 Alright, well, so, you know, constantly monitored, you know, they're constantly being watched by somebody. 51:31.660 --> 51:32.280 True or false? 51:33.240 --> 51:33.680 False. 51:34.800 --> 51:45.380 If you listen to or if you actually read, what dinner of magazine was Dual Parallel's article that I was talking about? 51:45.380 --> 51:47.140 Oh, you're going to put me on the spot. 51:47.640 --> 51:48.100 I'm going to look. 51:48.100 --> 51:48.560 Yes, I am. 51:48.700 --> 51:53.900 While you continue talking, I'm going to look that up on the interweb real quick and tell you that exact answer. 51:53.900 --> 52:01.720 Well, anyway, that specific article that I was referring to was a primer on physical security. 52:01.720 --> 52:08.720 And it basically laid out the ground rules for detection and response. 52:08.720 --> 52:18.120 And CCTVs are notoriously used in bad situations. 52:18.240 --> 52:25.940 In other words, you can't have response without detection and delay. 52:25.940 --> 52:33.420 And detection, you actually have to have somebody behind the camera or some type of alarm that will trigger the camera. 52:34.020 --> 52:35.000 And have you found it yet? 52:35.040 --> 52:35.660 Because I'm rambling. 52:35.660 --> 52:41.860 It is in issue 1.2, the second of our three issues of the magazine. 52:43.300 --> 52:49.220 And it is a physical security primer for the community by my good friend, Mr. Dual Parallel. 52:49.840 --> 52:51.320 Yeah, it's a really good article. 52:51.440 --> 52:52.140 You should read it. 52:53.380 --> 52:55.460 But you mentioned those three points. 52:55.680 --> 53:01.140 And I always go back to them when I'm installing a closed-circuit TV system for someone. 53:01.140 --> 53:10.180 If you don't have, you know, the response, you can't really have any detection or delay. 53:10.680 --> 53:10.920 Right. 53:11.040 --> 53:15.260 Well, you can't have a response if no one's detected anything. 53:16.080 --> 53:16.500 Correct. 53:16.780 --> 53:18.360 And that's the whole problem. 53:18.680 --> 53:24.420 They think that a CCTV system by itself is detection, which it's not. 53:24.900 --> 53:26.140 Well, and that goes... 53:26.140 --> 53:26.700 There has to be some type... 53:26.700 --> 53:27.320 I'm sorry, go ahead. 53:27.320 --> 53:33.080 There has to be some type of human behind the scenes or some type of alarm. 53:33.780 --> 53:33.980 Right. 53:34.100 --> 53:39.980 And I was going to say that refers back to earlier I was saying that you can set these up in such a way. 53:40.340 --> 53:42.400 And, you know, reliability, of course, is a factor. 53:42.400 --> 53:52.080 But such a way that, yes, if you have it motion-sense and if it detects someone has entered your home or whatever, you can have it, you know, big deal. 53:52.160 --> 53:55.540 If you're not there to watch it and you're not monitoring it, then it does you no good. 53:56.080 --> 53:56.860 They broke in. 53:56.860 --> 54:01.660 They may be on camera, but you're still robbed of blind and they're gone before you can do anything about it. 54:01.780 --> 54:06.520 You get home from vacation and find that your whole house is missing or everything in your house is missing. 54:06.580 --> 54:08.700 If your whole house is missing, they really pulled something off. 54:08.700 --> 54:26.960 But if you have that feature, if you have it set up so that if it gets motion-activated and it sends you a text message or mails a cell phone or some of the, I think, the more complex, some of the higher-end ones will tie in with your home security system. 54:26.960 --> 54:36.620 So if you have one of those monitored systems, it could even contact them if something goes off, an alarm goes off, and they can send somebody out for a response. 54:36.620 --> 54:38.420 So you still get that response. 54:38.420 --> 54:45.080 You may not get any delay in there, which would be nice, but you get to detect in the response, which are the two most important, in my opinion. 54:45.080 --> 54:53.720 Well, you have to have some type of delay because those systems are pretty good. 54:53.720 --> 54:59.420 The ones that at least are around here, that we have one at work that I work at right now. 55:00.840 --> 55:03.780 I can't remember the name of the company, but they're pretty good. 55:03.780 --> 55:15.860 If they notice something on the camera and it goes off, at least someone is dialing into it to see who's there, especially on off hours. 55:17.400 --> 55:18.440 So that's good. 55:20.220 --> 55:22.120 Yeah, we also pay a lot of money for that. 55:22.120 --> 55:23.280 Yeah, exactly. 55:23.400 --> 55:24.160 That is not cheap. 55:24.240 --> 55:24.620 You're right. 55:25.560 --> 55:31.060 So closed-circuit TV can provide safety for lots of different things. 55:31.880 --> 55:32.840 Something like that. 55:33.320 --> 55:34.260 Something like that. 55:34.760 --> 55:45.080 Well, I think you had a thing here in your notes about how new vehicles have rear-view camera systems in there. 55:45.140 --> 55:47.580 Is that really a form of closed-circuit TV? 55:47.580 --> 55:59.660 I mean, it is, by the definition, that it's only intended to go to one receiver, and that is the rear-view camera pointing to the little LCD screen in your car. 56:00.860 --> 56:03.080 Yeah, that would be an application of it. 56:03.080 --> 56:07.380 See, that's something that's hard for me to kind of think. 56:07.640 --> 56:10.120 When I think closed-circuit TV, I'm thinking those domes. 56:10.180 --> 56:12.840 I'm thinking the cameras in the drive-thrus and in the stores. 56:13.660 --> 56:18.500 But really, by the definition of it, that certainly is a closed-circuit television system. 56:19.500 --> 56:21.240 Yeah, it's closed-circuit within the car. 56:21.540 --> 56:23.060 Yeah, very closed-circuit. 56:24.180 --> 56:25.020 Well, you know. 56:28.020 --> 56:30.180 But, yeah, they're putting them on school buses. 56:30.480 --> 56:33.000 They're putting them in amusement parks, subways. 56:33.360 --> 56:34.720 You know, they've got them everywhere. 56:35.080 --> 56:37.140 It's a beautiful world, I guess. 56:37.140 --> 56:42.320 There's been a lot of talk about them being in the subway systems in New York and other places. 56:43.140 --> 56:50.860 Some of the greatest interweb videos, though, on YouTube and stuff have been from school buses of kids getting in a fight on the school buses, 56:51.240 --> 56:58.740 principals, or not principals, excuse me, well, possibly principals, but the bus drivers getting into fights and arguing with the kids 56:58.740 --> 57:01.620 and worse things with the kids, which we won't go there. 57:02.280 --> 57:03.880 I don't want to even go there. 57:03.880 --> 57:08.300 But I think there was even some wrecks where the bus tipped over and stuff like that, and it was all caught on video. 57:08.540 --> 57:12.280 So there's a lot of interesting stuff that's caught by these closed-circuit cameras. 57:12.980 --> 57:15.160 And they usually do have audio on school buses. 57:15.920 --> 57:17.040 Yes, you're right. 57:17.080 --> 57:17.720 They usually do. 57:17.780 --> 57:19.140 I just didn't even think about that. 57:21.780 --> 57:30.880 So, now there's another more recent phenomenon, if you will, and I don't want to drive you or anything like this in any direction, 57:30.880 --> 57:35.360 but what about this closed-circuit photography? 57:35.640 --> 57:37.160 Is there digital photography? 57:37.540 --> 57:38.440 Is there a term for that? 57:38.500 --> 57:39.300 Is there a special term? 57:40.240 --> 57:43.640 No, it's closed-circuit digital photography is what I call it anyway. 57:44.380 --> 57:48.700 It basically is a snapshot of what's going on in the camera system. 57:48.700 --> 57:53.280 And it saves that to a hard drive or whatever you want it to save to. 57:54.840 --> 57:58.820 The bad things, well, let me go over the good things first. 57:59.000 --> 57:59.940 It's low maintenance. 58:01.040 --> 58:02.240 You've got a low overhead. 58:02.460 --> 58:04.280 You're not taking as many frames a second. 58:05.560 --> 58:08.280 It's a lower storage capacity. 58:08.480 --> 58:13.740 In other words, you're only getting maybe a meg or two, depending on the resolution of what you're capturing. 58:13.740 --> 58:16.800 It's a snapshot in time. 58:17.920 --> 58:19.440 So, that's good and bad. 58:19.640 --> 58:28.360 You can actually capture a specific incident that would happen for evidence purposes. 58:29.360 --> 58:32.040 And it also gives clear pictures. 58:32.780 --> 58:35.420 The bad things are it's not real time, obviously. 58:35.620 --> 58:36.020 It's a picture. 58:37.400 --> 58:40.240 It doesn't capture motion well. 58:40.240 --> 58:44.520 So, it gives you just a brief smit of the video. 58:45.160 --> 58:49.540 And it's subject to lighting conditions, which most cameras are, unfortunately. 58:50.140 --> 58:54.800 Yeah, now let's see if I'm thinking of this correctly here. 58:54.920 --> 59:01.480 Now, this is when, well, especially recently, like a lot of digital cameras have the ability to record video. 59:01.820 --> 59:03.740 It's based on a different technology, of course. 59:03.800 --> 59:05.700 So, it's a little bit better quality video. 59:05.760 --> 59:09.220 But it's still not intended originally to do that. 59:09.220 --> 59:16.020 So, these closed-circuit digital photography-style cameras, they can take higher quality still frame pictures. 59:16.820 --> 59:22.780 And they can take them quickly, as quickly as possible, based on motion or motion sensing or whatever. 59:22.880 --> 59:25.700 But it's basically a sequence of still photos. 59:25.700 --> 59:33.520 And is that where you see on TV sometimes a video closed-circuit in a gas station or whatever being held up, 59:33.620 --> 59:39.180 where you see it jumping from frame to, like you can see, instead of it recording constant video, 59:39.300 --> 59:43.580 it's recording a picture every half second or one second or two seconds. 59:43.680 --> 59:45.620 And everybody looks like they're jittery and jumping. 59:45.620 --> 59:48.120 And you see the guy run in the door with the gun. 59:48.520 --> 59:50.980 There's one frame with him with the gun over the cash register. 59:51.120 --> 59:53.020 And then the next frame is him running out the door? 59:53.980 --> 59:56.000 No, that's usually just bad frame rate. 59:56.520 --> 01:00:00.720 So, that's just low frame rate on a, that's just a low-quality camera, closed-circuit camera. 01:00:01.520 --> 01:00:02.620 Well, it's not the camera as well. 01:00:02.720 --> 01:00:06.420 It's whatever recording device you're actually watching it off with. 01:00:06.420 --> 01:00:11.080 The camera has nothing, the camera has nothing to do with your frame rate. 01:00:11.520 --> 01:00:18.560 Could it be not, that the hardware that it's recording to is not fast enough to write it or, and it's losing frames or totally? 01:00:18.620 --> 01:00:22.340 Most likely it's either, can't record at a specific frame rate. 01:00:22.340 --> 01:00:33.060 Like, for example, I have, or I did control a 52 camera system that we had 16 cameras on each recorder. 01:00:33.060 --> 01:00:38.240 And your total frame rate is divided among those 16 cameras. 01:00:38.860 --> 01:00:45.860 So, if you're recording at, let's say, 25 frames a second, you're getting less than a frame a second per camera. 01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:47.440 I see. 01:00:48.460 --> 01:01:00.700 So, those digital shots, or those pseudo-digital shots that you were referring to, are basically the camera recording one frame per second among the 16. 01:01:00.700 --> 01:01:04.460 So, that's probably overloaded the equipment. 01:01:04.620 --> 01:01:09.900 They'd be best to step up to another, to a higher-end equipment if they really want to increase the quality. 01:01:10.900 --> 01:01:11.480 Yes, yes. 01:01:12.060 --> 01:01:15.620 We also had a unit that we just got in when I left. 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:21.900 It recorded 125 frames a second, which considerably improved our quality of video. 01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:33.680 So, it could record, I think, like 16, 16 to 20 frames a second per camera, which was the quality that we were getting total in the other ones. 01:01:34.060 --> 01:01:37.360 So, you know, it all depends on your needs. 01:01:37.940 --> 01:01:45.140 Most gas stations are going to have a really crappy frame rate, and it depends on how many cameras they're split up over. 01:01:45.140 --> 01:01:50.460 So, usually, I've seen gas stations have up to four to eight cameras. 01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:51.420 Hmm. 01:01:51.700 --> 01:01:51.940 So. 01:01:52.260 --> 01:01:56.540 So, then, now, I guess I didn't understand this digital photography one. 01:01:56.640 --> 01:01:58.220 Basically, it's very simple. 01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:04.240 Instead of having a video camera in there, you've got a digital camera taking photos in there. 01:02:05.020 --> 01:02:06.700 Well, yes and that. 01:02:06.700 --> 01:02:12.440 I mean, obviously, not a consumer, not a consumer level one, but it's some sort of, it's not taking streaming video. 01:02:12.600 --> 01:02:19.280 It's taking individual pictures and sacrificing speed and video capabilities for higher quality images. 01:02:20.460 --> 01:02:20.860 Right. 01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:24.120 And what it's doing is it's capturing them over time. 01:02:24.260 --> 01:02:33.520 Like, you can set it up where the motion sensor will kick off, and then it will take, like, 16 still pictures over the next 10 seconds. 01:02:34.100 --> 01:02:34.260 Right. 01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:35.240 Or whatever you set it to. 01:02:35.240 --> 01:02:36.780 Sure, it's just time-lapse photography. 01:02:37.700 --> 01:02:38.020 Correct. 01:02:38.900 --> 01:02:39.260 Hmm. 01:02:39.580 --> 01:02:41.060 And that's probably a better definition. 01:02:41.220 --> 01:02:42.660 I just put digital photography. 01:02:43.160 --> 01:02:47.040 No, I think that is actually an industry term or a standard. 01:02:47.200 --> 01:02:51.060 It is called CCDP, but I just never really thought about what it was. 01:02:51.140 --> 01:02:55.380 I thought it was just, I thought there was just cameras that had the capabilities. 01:02:55.540 --> 01:02:57.060 They just weren't very good at it. 01:02:57.140 --> 01:03:02.120 So, it turns out it is, well, again, I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it's a digital camera up there 01:03:02.120 --> 01:03:13.800 trying to do flash, trying to do photography, taking pictures, thinking that it's better to have a higher quality picture than it is to have low quality video. 01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:17.320 So, and I guess there's probably arguments on both sides of that coin. 01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:18.760 Right. 01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:23.140 And it all depends on your needs and the basic camera setup. 01:03:23.140 --> 01:03:32.600 I mean, you're looking at the resolution of the camera versus the quality of the recording unit. 01:03:33.600 --> 01:03:34.040 Hmm. 01:03:34.820 --> 01:03:39.880 Well, and I guess probably the ideal would be to have both, you know, have one of each. 01:03:41.140 --> 01:03:42.600 So, that way if your store gets... 01:03:42.600 --> 01:03:43.200 Yeah, we're talking money. 01:03:43.200 --> 01:03:47.860 Yeah, and, you know, obviously it depends on if you can afford it and what, you know, what's going to meet your needs. 01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:53.080 But, you know, a lot of times they'll have video of somebody coming in and robbing a gas station or whatever, 01:03:53.620 --> 01:03:57.620 which is the cliched thing you see all the time on TV that these are used for, 01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:00.460 but you can't make out their face, you can't tell what they look like. 01:04:00.940 --> 01:04:06.560 So, on the other hand, you can have this digital photography version, this digital photography camera, 01:04:07.060 --> 01:04:08.560 that'll get you a better quality one. 01:04:08.560 --> 01:04:15.440 But, boy, if it happens really fast and you blink, you might not get the photo on film to have the high quality picture. 01:04:15.640 --> 01:04:17.260 So, it's dangerous. 01:04:17.480 --> 01:04:17.580 Right. 01:04:17.580 --> 01:04:21.100 I mean, yeah, it's going to be nice to have both if you can afford them. 01:04:22.520 --> 01:04:26.220 And in that instance, I'd personally rather have the video. 01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:28.080 Yeah, yeah, me too, I think. 01:04:28.580 --> 01:04:33.680 Especially if you do get higher end video, the quality is going to be better, video quality, 01:04:33.800 --> 01:04:35.600 and the resolution is going to be better anyway. 01:04:35.600 --> 01:04:41.920 So, well, listen, we're a little over an hour here, so let's jump ahead since we kind of talked about, 01:04:42.540 --> 01:04:48.620 we've kind of touched on it several times, that these things take a lot of storage. 01:04:48.720 --> 01:04:51.880 And we've mentioned it briefly, but let's focus on that for a second. 01:04:52.260 --> 01:04:54.600 What are some of the storage problems here? 01:04:54.640 --> 01:04:58.600 And actually, you were giving me a good comparison before we started recording. 01:05:00.380 --> 01:05:01.000 About that. 01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:04.680 And I was giving you a comparison, Al, of the... 01:05:04.680 --> 01:05:05.440 Where is my memory? 01:05:05.600 --> 01:05:14.460 You were explaining to me about consumer-level DVRs and how they relate to these higher-end systems 01:05:14.460 --> 01:05:17.780 and the differences between them and the limitations of it. 01:05:17.860 --> 01:05:20.620 Well, just kind of compare and explain the differences there. 01:05:21.500 --> 01:05:26.600 Well, a consumer DVR or something that you would get from like Bright House or... 01:05:27.160 --> 01:05:28.720 Comcast, Adelphia, whatever. 01:05:28.720 --> 01:05:31.540 And insert your favorite TV host here. 01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:36.260 Basically, it basically records two channels. 01:05:36.580 --> 01:05:39.600 Like, you can't watch a third channel. 01:05:39.780 --> 01:05:44.880 You can record one and watch one, or you can record two, but you can't do three. 01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:45.560 Right. 01:05:45.560 --> 01:05:47.880 That's because it only has two inputs. 01:05:49.180 --> 01:05:53.500 The CCTVs, DVRs, can go up to 16 channels. 01:05:53.720 --> 01:05:55.300 Actually, I think they can go higher than that. 01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:58.140 I've only had experience up to the 16 channel. 01:05:58.140 --> 01:06:11.740 So, again, it requires the unit to support that and also the cameras to be wired specifically for that. 01:06:11.740 --> 01:06:20.440 And most of the time, it's BNC, unless it's a wireless camera, which I've never had at my facility. 01:06:20.620 --> 01:06:23.240 I never really dealt with the wireless side of it. 01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:28.560 Most of our cameras were straight BNC, coax cable. 01:06:29.120 --> 01:06:29.680 So, for... 01:06:29.680 --> 01:06:31.460 Go ahead. 01:06:31.700 --> 01:06:37.260 I was just going to say, so the DVR that most of us are familiar with, the TiVos and stuff like that of the world, 01:06:37.340 --> 01:06:40.080 we've only got two inputs coming in from the cable company. 01:06:40.080 --> 01:06:45.060 There are certainly low-end, when we go back to, we were talking about consumer models earlier, 01:06:45.180 --> 01:06:52.120 there are low-end consumer models, closed-circuit TV kits that may only have two or four inputs. 01:06:52.200 --> 01:06:54.200 I think most of the ones I see are four. 01:06:54.580 --> 01:06:58.900 That seems to be the most common ones that I see that they can monitor for at one time. 01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:04.860 And they usually only have very small hard drives, maybe 100 gig, something like that. 01:07:04.860 --> 01:07:13.080 And that's the other thing we're going to kind of segue here, is that the big issue with these is storage. 01:07:13.380 --> 01:07:21.180 And on many different levels, not only how much you need and how much is used and how you set it up, 01:07:21.240 --> 01:07:23.740 but also data retention policies. 01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:29.500 At home, it may be a little bit more lax, but at businesses, you know, how long do you keep that data? 01:07:29.840 --> 01:07:30.860 How do you rotate it? 01:07:30.900 --> 01:07:32.220 Do you have a storage network? 01:07:32.220 --> 01:07:39.620 And that's big with the data retention in, like, correctional facilities and stuff. 01:07:39.960 --> 01:07:43.300 We have to retain 30 days at least. 01:07:44.140 --> 01:07:52.080 So it's, you know, 500 gig in 30 days or whatever it is, and we have to retain that for the next month. 01:07:52.240 --> 01:07:54.000 So we have 500 gigs we can't touch. 01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:57.620 So that's a big problem. 01:07:59.660 --> 01:08:05.620 Our newer units came in, like, with terabytes and terabytes of storage, so we were fine. 01:08:07.080 --> 01:08:11.880 But you've got to let it sit there, and 500 gigs isn't anything to sneeze at. 01:08:12.260 --> 01:08:17.760 So most, like, most bigger companies have, like, a NAS sitting out there that you can, you know, 01:08:17.780 --> 01:08:21.860 copy the data over to or something to that effect. 01:08:21.860 --> 01:08:27.100 And, you know, again, that's going to vary from place to place. 01:08:27.260 --> 01:08:29.920 I bet you Vegas keeps that stuff for maybe even a year. 01:08:30.840 --> 01:08:34.460 I mean, they've got to keep, yeah, and they've got so many of them. 01:08:34.500 --> 01:08:35.360 You can just imagine. 01:08:35.500 --> 01:08:38.560 It's got to boggle the mind how much storage they have. 01:08:39.420 --> 01:08:45.340 I mean, it's got to be just insane because they keep that stuff for the longest amount of time so they can go back and look for people. 01:08:45.340 --> 01:08:52.100 They've got other technologies in there, like that face recognition and stuff, which I don't know if we're going to have time to go into some of those. 01:08:52.400 --> 01:08:59.300 But, yeah, it's going to – that's a very, very big factor in the business environment for sure. 01:08:59.300 --> 01:09:10.500 In the home systems and the consumer-level systems, it's pretty easy, I think, to set these up so that basically it'll just rotate when it runs out of space 01:09:10.500 --> 01:09:12.200 or when it gets to the end of its allotted space. 01:09:12.300 --> 01:09:16.700 It'll go back and start writing over at the beginning and keep a moving window going. 01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:19.300 Is that normal setup? 01:09:19.300 --> 01:09:28.360 Normally, you'll have a purge log, which means you would get so much of a percent full of the drive, 01:09:28.640 --> 01:09:32.580 and then it will send you an error message saying, I don't know what to do right now. 01:09:32.820 --> 01:09:38.400 And then you can go back and delete, like, dates, specific dates if you want. 01:09:38.600 --> 01:09:42.560 Or you can just tell it to overwrite, and whenever it gets full, it overwrites. 01:09:42.720 --> 01:09:43.140 There you go. 01:09:43.160 --> 01:09:43.780 Very dangerous. 01:09:44.380 --> 01:09:45.280 Wouldn't recommend it. 01:09:45.280 --> 01:09:50.440 Well, on the other hand, isn't it just as dangerous to not pay attention to the thing? 01:09:50.540 --> 01:09:53.940 You know how people tend to not monitor and maintain that stuff properly, 01:09:54.040 --> 01:09:56.380 and it runs out of drive space and doesn't record anything new. 01:09:57.200 --> 01:09:57.880 Good point. 01:09:58.540 --> 01:10:00.680 You have your downsides either way. 01:10:01.220 --> 01:10:07.560 I would much rather get the email and go in there and delete dates myself. 01:10:07.780 --> 01:10:08.120 Right. 01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:10.480 But that's just me because I don't trust the automation. 01:10:10.940 --> 01:10:11.160 Right. 01:10:11.160 --> 01:10:13.560 I got burned on the automation way too many times. 01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:14.260 Uh-huh. 01:10:14.640 --> 01:10:15.780 Not reliable, huh? 01:10:17.040 --> 01:10:27.380 Well, having drives fail and then only writing to a specific drive or set of drives or subset of that drive, 01:10:27.540 --> 01:10:29.900 it gets a little interesting sometimes. 01:10:31.380 --> 01:10:32.100 You need a nice... 01:10:32.100 --> 01:10:38.220 Especially the older units, they were very bad at that writing to a specific drive, 01:10:38.220 --> 01:10:42.940 like just writing to the slave drive and ignoring the master completely. 01:10:43.880 --> 01:10:47.240 So you need a nice RAID 5 NAS device like mine. 01:10:48.220 --> 01:10:48.740 Yeah, yeah. 01:10:48.820 --> 01:10:50.420 That would be nice, jackass. 01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:51.520 Ha, ha, ha, ha. 01:10:52.280 --> 01:10:52.860 All right. 01:10:52.940 --> 01:10:53.700 Well, listen. 01:10:53.780 --> 01:10:57.660 I want to talk about some vulnerabilities to these before we close up the show. 01:10:57.740 --> 01:10:59.500 We've probably got another 10 or 15 minutes left. 01:10:59.500 --> 01:11:04.460 Let's talk about some vulnerabilities to these systems and maybe even some myths, 01:11:04.580 --> 01:11:06.380 some vulnerability myths if we have time. 01:11:07.460 --> 01:11:07.620 Okay. 01:11:08.140 --> 01:11:11.780 Like, because some of the things that you brought up here, I didn't even cross my mind, 01:11:11.820 --> 01:11:12.520 that are very interesting. 01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:19.480 And they deal, again, this is physical security, so some of these are physical attacks, if you will. 01:11:19.480 --> 01:11:22.180 Yeah, I do love the spray paint one. 01:11:22.380 --> 01:11:24.020 It's just so classic. 01:11:24.440 --> 01:11:30.940 Yeah, I mean, it's just common sense that you've got to realize that, okay, you've got a camera pointing at you. 01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:32.440 How do you stop it? 01:11:32.640 --> 01:11:36.280 Well, gee, something as simple as spray paint would do the job pretty well. 01:11:37.280 --> 01:11:43.500 Well, the guys that we used to deal with all the time, they would, you know, shove stuff up against the camera. 01:11:43.500 --> 01:11:53.060 And what tissue paper was the thing, either, you know, toilet paper or, like, towels and stuff, 01:11:53.460 --> 01:11:56.120 they'd shove up against the cameras and block them. 01:11:57.240 --> 01:11:57.640 That's nasty. 01:11:57.640 --> 01:11:58.200 Yeah, that's nasty. 01:11:59.260 --> 01:12:00.640 Well, and, yeah, actually anything. 01:12:00.780 --> 01:12:02.540 You could throw a blanket over it. 01:12:02.540 --> 01:12:06.160 You could throw an envelope over it, some tape over it. 01:12:06.220 --> 01:12:08.260 I mean, anything that's going to obstruct the view of the camera. 01:12:08.520 --> 01:12:10.420 Pretty straightforward, common sense attack. 01:12:10.420 --> 01:12:14.160 Now, obviously, if it's a dome camera in the ceiling, that makes it a little bit tougher. 01:12:15.360 --> 01:12:23.980 Yeah, or if you have the drop-down ceilings, just pop out the tile and block it. 01:12:24.800 --> 01:12:29.460 Or, and, well, actually, I guess we'll probably move on to some of the other ones. 01:12:30.460 --> 01:12:37.060 Actually, no, I guess it would fit in to, say, here, if this is a wired system, you can cut the wires. 01:12:38.360 --> 01:12:39.580 Cut the wires, cut the power. 01:12:39.580 --> 01:12:41.000 Cut the power, cut the wires. 01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:46.560 We'll have, where the power goes, coincides with the cable. 01:12:47.120 --> 01:12:54.320 So you'll have the power cable either right next to it or it will go over the coax. 01:12:55.160 --> 01:12:56.540 I've seen systems like that, too. 01:12:56.540 --> 01:13:01.500 So, kind of, not exactly spray paint, but, again, a physical thing that you can do. 01:13:01.720 --> 01:13:08.480 And, obviously, that's not something that's probably easily done in a larger, in a business environment or something like that. 01:13:08.580 --> 01:13:12.280 But, certainly, worthy of discussion. 01:13:12.420 --> 01:13:15.440 I mean, theoretically, cutting the power to something would work. 01:13:15.440 --> 01:13:23.000 Or, I've seen where those dome cameras have little slits in them where the actual lens comes out. 01:13:24.060 --> 01:13:28.020 And, in the older domes, they can only see in that specific slit. 01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:33.140 So, all you have to do is turn the dome around. 01:13:33.140 --> 01:13:40.520 Get a little, you know, get a screwdriver, go up there, and turn the dome around. 01:13:40.860 --> 01:13:42.720 Of course, they see you climbing up there with a screwdriver. 01:13:43.660 --> 01:13:44.120 Of course. 01:13:44.340 --> 01:13:44.760 Yeah. 01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:46.920 That's what stocking capsules are. 01:13:46.920 --> 01:13:53.360 If you intend on doing something illegal afterward, it might be beneficial to turn the camera. 01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:54.040 Yeah. 01:13:55.400 --> 01:13:56.160 Of course, not that we're... 01:13:56.160 --> 01:13:59.180 Or jump over the drop-down ceiling into another office or something. 01:13:59.420 --> 01:13:59.680 Yeah. 01:13:59.720 --> 01:14:02.140 We're not condoning any of those activities, of course. 01:14:02.180 --> 01:14:03.740 We're not going to plant any ideas there. 01:14:05.620 --> 01:14:06.380 Wasn't planning. 01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:08.720 That's just my experience on those things. 01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:12.720 We're letting the listeners know what to watch out for. 01:14:14.600 --> 01:14:14.880 Of course. 01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:18.380 Make sure that people don't do these things to the systems that you set up. 01:14:19.400 --> 01:14:19.780 All right. 01:14:19.840 --> 01:14:20.740 So, what else do you have? 01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:25.040 If there is something in the ceiling or you don't have a scan of spray paint, what else can you do? 01:14:26.280 --> 01:14:31.080 Beans of light are always fun, either infrared or just a beam of light. 01:14:31.520 --> 01:14:34.120 It can obstruct the view of the camera. 01:14:35.380 --> 01:14:35.780 Infrared. 01:14:35.780 --> 01:14:43.880 Have you ever went into a department store and pointed a TV remote at one of the display cameras? 01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:45.920 I have not. 01:14:47.120 --> 01:14:47.860 Try it sometimes. 01:14:47.980 --> 01:14:49.620 I can imagine what happens. 01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:52.320 The camera goes white. 01:14:52.320 --> 01:15:09.200 Yeah, anybody that's ever pointed a camera towards the sun or an overly bright light, if you have a bright light source behind somebody when you're taking a picture, you know, of course, that that overloads the camera lens, can't handle all that bright light coming in and kind of chokes. 01:15:09.200 --> 01:15:14.500 And that's true of infrared especially, very, very bright lights. 01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:16.000 Yep. 01:15:16.740 --> 01:15:17.440 What else? 01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:20.340 That's, I think that's it. 01:15:20.480 --> 01:15:20.800 Let's see. 01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:20.960 Right. 01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:25.960 You know, infrared and just a regular beam of light, like one of those laser pointers will do the job, too. 01:15:26.040 --> 01:15:26.360 Right. 01:15:26.660 --> 01:15:32.720 Depending on how sensitive the camera is, you might get some, you might be able to make out some of it, but it should do the job. 01:15:33.680 --> 01:15:34.120 And... 01:15:34.120 --> 01:15:35.300 Again, not condoning anything. 01:15:35.580 --> 01:15:36.620 Right, right. 01:15:36.620 --> 01:15:42.420 I think, actually, yeah, we did mention cutting off the power. 01:15:43.640 --> 01:15:43.820 Yeah. 01:15:44.860 --> 01:15:50.280 Sometimes they can have a UPS device that might, or a backup power source of some kind. 01:15:51.480 --> 01:15:54.280 Not if you cut both wires to the camera. 01:15:56.000 --> 01:15:59.160 Well, I guess, yeah, if you cut both of them, then it doesn't matter, does it? 01:15:59.700 --> 01:16:06.200 Most of the time, the UPS is on the other end, on wherever the camera's plugged into. 01:16:06.620 --> 01:16:08.620 Well, and... 01:16:08.620 --> 01:16:12.480 I've never seen a camera that had a built-in UPS in the unit itself. 01:16:13.520 --> 01:16:19.380 Yeah, I would imagine they probably exist on some high-end, maybe, I don't know. 01:16:20.400 --> 01:16:26.700 Yeah, but why not just snip the, if you've got a wired camera there, and you have... 01:16:26.700 --> 01:16:27.120 Wireless. 01:16:27.120 --> 01:16:31.460 A cable coming into it, and a power coming into it, snip both of them, and you're good. 01:16:31.860 --> 01:16:33.160 Well, if it's wireless, though. 01:16:33.940 --> 01:16:35.120 If it's wireless, okay. 01:16:35.120 --> 01:16:36.640 All right, all right, I'll buy that. 01:16:36.760 --> 01:16:37.560 Yeah, if it's wireless. 01:16:37.700 --> 01:16:40.600 And actually, there's some vulnerabilities, obviously, to wireless as well. 01:16:41.560 --> 01:16:46.080 Yeah, it runs on 802.11g, I believe, most of them. 01:16:46.480 --> 01:16:49.500 Most of your consumers level, anyway. 01:16:50.700 --> 01:16:51.120 So, therefore... 01:16:51.120 --> 01:16:54.540 That would be relatively easy to block. 01:16:55.580 --> 01:16:58.120 Or, so you can jam those... 01:16:59.600 --> 01:17:00.440 Or intercept them. 01:17:00.440 --> 01:17:02.160 Or intercept them, obviously. 01:17:02.300 --> 01:17:06.880 Now, theoretically, since it is just like any other thing going over, you could theoretically... 01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:09.040 Should theoretically encrypt those. 01:17:10.440 --> 01:17:10.880 Should. 01:17:11.140 --> 01:17:11.500 Yeah. 01:17:11.500 --> 01:17:11.620 Do that. 01:17:11.760 --> 01:17:12.480 Probably not. 01:17:12.700 --> 01:17:13.600 Probably not. 01:17:13.720 --> 01:17:19.380 Just like, just like whether they rotate the logs, and clean up the hard drives, and have 01:17:19.380 --> 01:17:20.320 the settings configured. 01:17:20.460 --> 01:17:23.120 It's one of those things where people just don't maintain them, or pay attention. 01:17:23.220 --> 01:17:25.240 They just get it up and running, and then forget about it. 01:17:25.240 --> 01:17:26.660 And don't pay attention. 01:17:26.660 --> 01:17:29.980 Or change the admin password on the DVR unit, maybe? 01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:31.360 Yeah, there. 01:17:31.480 --> 01:17:32.160 That might do it. 01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:33.320 So, all right. 01:17:33.380 --> 01:17:37.480 So, here, let's talk about some myths and questions here, because we're kind of running 01:17:37.480 --> 01:17:37.780 low. 01:17:38.180 --> 01:17:39.800 Like, all right, true or false? 01:17:40.260 --> 01:17:47.100 In the movies, sometimes, you will see where the spy taps into the video feed and replaces 01:17:47.100 --> 01:17:50.620 it with a looped footage of something they've taken earlier. 01:17:51.180 --> 01:17:51.980 That's possible? 01:17:52.120 --> 01:17:52.700 True or false? 01:17:52.700 --> 01:17:58.480 Yeah, it could theoretically be doubtful, though. 01:17:59.040 --> 01:18:02.760 So, that's a movie thing, but theoretically, it's possible. 01:18:03.880 --> 01:18:04.240 Theoretically. 01:18:04.520 --> 01:18:06.580 Because your feed is coming from a live camera. 01:18:06.920 --> 01:18:08.980 Again, theoretically, it's coming in from a live camera. 01:18:09.060 --> 01:18:13.100 So, if you're sitting there watching it, and I think we do see this in a lot of movies, 01:18:13.840 --> 01:18:18.240 you cut the wire real quickly, or you unplug the wire from the camera and plug it quickly 01:18:18.240 --> 01:18:24.260 into a, I don't know, a VCR, these days, maybe an iPod or something with a video feed that's 01:18:24.260 --> 01:18:29.760 looping, and somebody might not notice the difference if they're not paying close attention. 01:18:30.660 --> 01:18:33.680 Yeah, but they'd have to be real dumb or not watching it at all. 01:18:33.800 --> 01:18:37.780 Well, they're dumb people in the world, we'll just say that. 01:18:37.780 --> 01:18:48.220 Yeah, because your camera is just a raw feed, so technically, you could, so. 01:18:48.540 --> 01:18:48.820 Yeah. 01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:50.240 Yeah. 01:18:50.460 --> 01:18:51.020 All right, so. 01:18:51.020 --> 01:18:54.480 Again, not requiring anything illegal from anybody. 01:18:54.480 --> 01:19:00.160 Well, and on the topic of myths, like, spend maybe one or two minutes here. 01:19:00.980 --> 01:19:07.340 There's been a lot of mention of these cameras, a lot of application of these cameras in toll 01:19:07.340 --> 01:19:12.980 booths, on turnpikes, on pay roads, toll roads, or at stoplights and things like that. 01:19:14.180 --> 01:19:21.380 And privacy implications aside, there's been a lot of discussion on this, and there's been 01:19:21.380 --> 01:19:23.740 a lot of actual inventions and stuff that have come up. 01:19:23.740 --> 01:19:27.060 Now, we've already talked about how these worked, and some of the vulnerabilities we 01:19:27.060 --> 01:19:31.580 talked about, like the beam of light is the one that I see most commonly people try to 01:19:31.580 --> 01:19:32.900 use to trick this. 01:19:33.360 --> 01:19:37.540 So, you go burning through a toll booth or whatever, and you don't want to pay the toll, 01:19:37.620 --> 01:19:44.580 you go zipping through the sun pass or the speed lane or whatever, and they have closed 01:19:44.580 --> 01:19:50.880 circuit cameras in every lane that is supposed to be able to catch your license plate and hopefully 01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:53.220 your face through your windshield as you go through there. 01:19:53.740 --> 01:19:56.440 So, if you go through and don't pay, it'll snap that really fast. 01:19:56.500 --> 01:20:01.160 So, there's been a lot of inventions claiming that they can prevent this. 01:20:02.580 --> 01:20:07.220 And I have done some experimentation, and so have a lot of other people. 01:20:07.640 --> 01:20:10.320 So have a lot of other people, and everybody's come to the same conclusion. 01:20:10.520 --> 01:20:14.660 But, like, one of the things you'll see, and I've even seen spam emails about this, is 01:20:14.660 --> 01:20:20.160 there's this clear spray paint coating stuff, this clear coat that you can spray over your 01:20:20.160 --> 01:20:20.920 license plate. 01:20:20.920 --> 01:20:26.740 And it's supposed to cause, like, a shimmering mirror, it's supposed to coat it with this 01:20:26.740 --> 01:20:32.680 very shiny material, dries, causes it very, very shiny, so that it goes back to the light, 01:20:32.800 --> 01:20:34.400 the beam of light we were talking about earlier. 01:20:34.400 --> 01:20:41.980 When you try to use the flash on the camera, on the digital CCDP, or the sun on a video, 01:20:42.100 --> 01:20:46.040 if the sun reflects off of this and make it really shiny, when the camera tries to pick 01:20:46.040 --> 01:20:50.980 that up, it's going to get that bright light either flash mirrored back to it or the sunlight 01:20:50.980 --> 01:20:55.620 bounced back to it and, therefore, ruin the image like we talked about earlier. 01:20:55.620 --> 01:21:01.360 Another thing is you can buy these plastic covers that's the exact size of your license 01:21:01.360 --> 01:21:01.660 plate. 01:21:02.260 --> 01:21:05.980 You just unscrew your license plate, screw this plastic cover on top of it, and screw 01:21:05.980 --> 01:21:06.660 it back down. 01:21:07.200 --> 01:21:08.780 It's an attempt to do the same thing as before. 01:21:08.900 --> 01:21:14.220 It's thinking that it's going to, A, either reflect some of the light back off of the plate, 01:21:14.480 --> 01:21:19.460 or some of these are even curved with little grooves in it that attempt to distort the image. 01:21:19.580 --> 01:21:21.120 Like, I don't even know how to describe that. 01:21:21.180 --> 01:21:22.680 You know what I'm talking about, though, don't you? 01:21:23.480 --> 01:21:23.800 Mm-hmm. 01:21:23.940 --> 01:21:26.160 It's like a, I don't even know how to describe it. 01:21:26.160 --> 01:21:30.860 When you look through a translucent object, you're not seeing through it perfectly clear. 01:21:31.120 --> 01:21:35.160 You're looking at it like a bunch of prisms that are supposed to break it up, and when 01:21:35.160 --> 01:21:40.160 the camera's further away, then it's not going to be able to accurately read your license plate. 01:21:41.500 --> 01:21:46.940 Well, I think the one universal thing that I have seen from this is that none of them work, 01:21:47.700 --> 01:21:48.880 unless you've heard otherwise. 01:21:49.920 --> 01:21:51.820 No, they shouldn't work. 01:21:52.680 --> 01:22:00.000 None of them should really affect the camera, taking the picture, and the actual quality. 01:22:01.760 --> 01:22:05.480 If you're going to go that far, I just say, why don't you replace your license plate? 01:22:06.760 --> 01:22:11.260 Yeah, then when you do get pulled over legitimately and they find out it's wrong, then you're in 01:22:11.260 --> 01:22:12.140 really deep trouble. 01:22:13.280 --> 01:22:14.480 Well, and I should also... 01:22:14.480 --> 01:22:18.960 If you take it that illegal to begin with, you might as well in a few steps. 01:22:19.180 --> 01:22:20.000 Ah, never mind. 01:22:20.120 --> 01:22:22.320 Yeah, you're crossing a whole other line. 01:22:22.400 --> 01:22:28.080 And actually, just to put it out there, putting any kind of coating or plastic cover of your 01:22:28.080 --> 01:22:32.700 license plate, technically even lights around your license plate, which could possibly cause 01:22:32.700 --> 01:22:33.920 the same thing if they're bright lights. 01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:37.020 Technically, in the state of Florida, anyway, those are all illegal. 01:22:37.020 --> 01:22:42.320 I think, like the Sun Pass, you know, if you go through one of them and you say you don't 01:22:42.320 --> 01:22:47.460 have enough money to go through the toll, they'll let you go through the toll anyway. 01:22:48.020 --> 01:22:48.480 Yeah, they'll just... 01:22:48.480 --> 01:22:51.460 It could be a little slip that says insufficient funds or something. 01:22:51.460 --> 01:22:56.540 Right, and they'll just either bill it to your credit card on file if you have it, or next 01:22:56.540 --> 01:23:00.560 time you load it up with funds, it'll already be deducted. 01:23:00.600 --> 01:23:06.140 It basically has a little, what do they call it for a checking account, like an overdraft 01:23:06.140 --> 01:23:07.240 protection type thing? 01:23:08.020 --> 01:23:09.820 So they give you a little bit of leeway. 01:23:10.820 --> 01:23:11.060 Yeah. 01:23:12.280 --> 01:23:18.180 So I don't think we're going to have enough time and probably, you know what, let's keep 01:23:18.180 --> 01:23:19.000 the show technical. 01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:22.880 I mean, we could talk about the privacy problems and we were going to at least mention them, 01:23:24.040 --> 01:23:30.460 but having cameras out all the time, I mean, if you're running a private business and you 01:23:30.460 --> 01:23:36.620 have cameras out protecting your business and your company and making things safer for 01:23:36.620 --> 01:23:42.960 people that are coming to shop at your company or whatever, to me is one thing. 01:23:43.040 --> 01:23:45.400 I don't really have too much of a problem with that personally. 01:23:45.400 --> 01:23:52.400 I mean, other people may feel differently, but putting cameras out in the public becomes 01:23:52.400 --> 01:23:55.040 a grayer area, if you will. 01:23:56.560 --> 01:23:57.200 And I agree. 01:23:57.860 --> 01:23:58.580 I don't know. 01:23:58.660 --> 01:24:01.780 To a certain extent, I'm okay with some of that, to be honest. 01:24:01.940 --> 01:24:03.180 It might surprise some people. 01:24:03.280 --> 01:24:08.840 Some of that I'm okay with, like the lights in the intersections to tell if you're running 01:24:08.840 --> 01:24:10.860 red lights or speeding or something like that. 01:24:10.860 --> 01:24:17.480 But I got to honestly say, and if somebody can email me and prove me a reason why I shouldn't 01:24:17.480 --> 01:24:20.120 feel this way, I don't really have too much of a problem with those. 01:24:21.140 --> 01:24:22.120 It's an intersection. 01:24:22.320 --> 01:24:29.940 It's using technology in a way to help make police officers' job easier to catch people 01:24:29.940 --> 01:24:30.820 going through there. 01:24:30.820 --> 01:24:32.880 So I don't really have too much of a problem with that. 01:24:32.960 --> 01:24:35.320 You're speeding, you're breaking the law, and you get caught doing it. 01:24:35.880 --> 01:24:37.320 That doesn't bother me so much. 01:24:37.400 --> 01:24:43.100 But having them out on street corners and intersections and in-city streets, to me, I feel like you 01:24:43.100 --> 01:24:45.920 should have a little bit more privacy there. 01:24:46.180 --> 01:24:52.080 But in this world these days, I kind of don't feel like I have any privacy anywhere, truthfully. 01:24:52.080 --> 01:24:55.080 Yeah, that's true. 01:24:55.240 --> 01:24:59.180 The privacy is somewhat lacking nowadays. 01:25:00.500 --> 01:25:06.080 Yeah, this could turn into a whole episode by itself talking about the privacy implications 01:25:06.080 --> 01:25:12.840 of cameras and monitoring and a whole George Orwell 1984 Big Brothers watching tangent. 01:25:13.060 --> 01:25:16.500 But we don't have time for it on this episode, so we're going to have to wrap it up. 01:25:17.320 --> 01:25:20.780 Before we do, though, is there anything else that we skipped that you wanted to mention 01:25:20.780 --> 01:25:21.840 before we close it up? 01:25:22.760 --> 01:25:24.040 No, I think that's about it. 01:25:24.160 --> 01:25:25.320 I think we covered a lot. 01:25:25.460 --> 01:25:30.380 The only thing I have trouble with with the whole privacy issues, I don't particularly 01:25:30.380 --> 01:25:31.960 like the face recognition ones. 01:25:32.780 --> 01:25:35.900 I think that's just crossing a line that you really shouldn't. 01:25:36.060 --> 01:25:37.220 I agree completely. 01:25:37.480 --> 01:25:39.320 I do not like those at all. 01:25:39.720 --> 01:25:41.320 Yeah, that's... 01:25:41.320 --> 01:25:42.320 Because... 01:25:42.320 --> 01:25:42.800 Yeah. 01:25:43.480 --> 01:25:47.940 We could go into it, but I'll just say I agree, and we'll close the show with that, 01:25:47.980 --> 01:25:48.380 I guess. 01:25:49.140 --> 01:25:51.520 I just thought I'd mention it to egg you on a little bit. 01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:52.780 I'm biting my tongue. 01:25:53.340 --> 01:25:54.320 I'm holding back. 01:25:54.440 --> 01:25:54.980 I don't want to... 01:25:54.980 --> 01:25:56.320 We don't have any time left. 01:25:56.640 --> 01:25:57.880 So, what kind of shout? 01:25:57.940 --> 01:25:58.900 You got some shouts this week? 01:26:00.280 --> 01:26:01.240 I'll shout to you. 01:26:01.480 --> 01:26:02.860 I'll cheat a little bit. 01:26:02.860 --> 01:26:03.300 Oh, yeah. 01:26:03.420 --> 01:26:04.580 All the DP members. 01:26:04.580 --> 01:26:11.080 And I'm sure you're with me on my shout this week is, you know, I do my corny shout outs 01:26:11.080 --> 01:26:18.340 once in a while, and being that this is coming out July 3rd, of course, one day before July 01:26:18.340 --> 01:26:18.780 4th. 01:26:18.780 --> 01:26:22.360 If you're listening on the podcast, you might not be listening this until July 4th, but, 01:26:22.360 --> 01:26:31.100 you know, the 4th of July celebrating our freedom in this country, the United States, and I have 01:26:31.100 --> 01:26:35.060 to give my shouts, of course, to all the veterans and the men and women that are fighting overseas 01:26:35.060 --> 01:26:42.000 right now, veterans and soldiers overseas right now that are, have given so much and are giving 01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:49.280 so much, that are going out there and earning this freedom that I have to do this show yet 01:26:49.280 --> 01:26:49.980 another year. 01:26:50.060 --> 01:26:54.140 We're coming up on the end of season four, done another year of the show, and it's been 01:26:54.140 --> 01:26:55.220 on the backs of these people. 01:26:55.620 --> 01:26:59.340 So, you know, it may be corny, and it may be all kind of weird and all, but, you know, 01:26:59.420 --> 01:27:04.580 I got to be honest and say that I totally, totally respect what these people have done 01:27:04.580 --> 01:27:11.100 for us, and you have to understand that, you know, go out July 4th, celebrate the freedoms 01:27:11.100 --> 01:27:13.000 that we do still have left in this country. 01:27:13.180 --> 01:27:14.000 Yes, they're diminishing. 01:27:14.200 --> 01:27:16.240 Yes, there's problems, but you know what? 01:27:16.280 --> 01:27:18.260 It's still a great country. 01:27:18.380 --> 01:27:23.300 We've still got more freedom than most people enjoy, and don't take those freedoms for granted. 01:27:23.860 --> 01:27:28.260 When people are trying to take these away, when these privacy things do come up, stand 01:27:28.260 --> 01:27:28.960 up and be heard. 01:27:29.060 --> 01:27:31.740 Don't let them disappear, you know? 01:27:32.200 --> 01:27:33.180 We have a lot of freedom. 01:27:33.320 --> 01:27:33.780 It's great. 01:27:33.880 --> 01:27:34.540 It can be better. 01:27:34.840 --> 01:27:37.800 Appreciate what we have and try to keep what we have. 01:27:37.960 --> 01:27:39.720 So, my shouts go out to them. 01:27:39.720 --> 01:27:41.440 Happy 4th of July, everyone. 01:27:43.020 --> 01:27:47.480 Hosting for Binary Revolution Radio is provided by caro.net. 01:27:47.740 --> 01:27:51.680 They've been doing great for us for several months now, so if you need hosting by them, 01:27:51.700 --> 01:27:57.240 and they have shared hosting plans I saw they just added recently, so if you want to go find 01:27:57.240 --> 01:28:00.180 some shared hosting, they offer that now, virtual hosting. 01:28:00.780 --> 01:28:02.880 Check them out, caro.net. 01:28:02.880 --> 01:28:09.500 Our site of the week this week is Animusic, A-N-I-M-U-S-I-C. 01:28:09.640 --> 01:28:10.600 That's animated music. 01:28:10.700 --> 01:28:18.500 It's computer CGI graphics of some pretty cool music with all kinds of different very creative 01:28:18.500 --> 01:28:20.100 animations to go with them. 01:28:20.480 --> 01:28:21.500 You can buy that on DVD. 01:28:21.500 --> 01:28:23.420 You can go check the site out and download some of them. 01:28:23.460 --> 01:28:24.180 They're very cool. 01:28:25.100 --> 01:28:27.180 Email us any feedback at all. 01:28:27.340 --> 01:28:29.800 Love us, hate us, want us to disappear. 01:28:30.100 --> 01:28:36.480 If you're actually in the future in the year 3517, the email address might not work, so bear 01:28:36.480 --> 01:28:37.260 with us on that. 01:28:37.500 --> 01:28:40.660 But that is going to do it for the show this week. 01:28:40.780 --> 01:28:41.360 Closing music. 01:28:41.360 --> 01:28:42.940 Oh, let's see. 01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:49.660 Last minute, I am going to close with Bad Spella featuring MC Frontalot, Rhyme of the 01:28:49.660 --> 01:28:50.240 Nibelung. 01:28:50.340 --> 01:28:52.220 I might have used this before, but you know what? 01:28:52.640 --> 01:28:55.360 I'm going to use it again, and that's going to do it. 01:28:55.520 --> 01:28:57.740 Enigma, anything else before we close out the show here, buddy? 01:28:58.520 --> 01:28:59.560 No, that's about it. 01:28:59.740 --> 01:29:00.140 All right. 01:29:00.220 --> 01:29:05.000 Thank you for being on the show, my friend, and to everybody out there listening in interweb 01:29:05.000 --> 01:29:09.740 world, we will see you, well, sometime in the future. 01:29:09.740 --> 01:29:11.840 But it will be the same hack time. 01:29:12.740 --> 01:29:13.680 Same hack channel. 01:29:39.740 --> 01:29:43.440 When the hubby comes out, he looks a little menacing, says he's going to eat you like 01:29:43.440 --> 01:29:44.540 a little piece of venison. 01:29:44.740 --> 01:29:46.760 When it's a morning, I guess I'm confused. 01:29:46.860 --> 01:29:48.040 Does the wife know the hero? 01:29:48.160 --> 01:29:49.140 There seems to be clues. 01:29:49.260 --> 01:29:50.280 There's a sword in the tree. 01:29:50.400 --> 01:29:51.540 Why is a tree in the house? 01:29:51.580 --> 01:29:52.740 Did she slip a man to make it? 01:29:52.780 --> 01:29:53.900 How come Siggy don't get out? 01:29:53.960 --> 01:29:56.320 How come neither of them make it up the hills right now? 01:29:56.380 --> 01:29:58.780 As for brothers, love, and sisters, isn't this disallowed? 01:29:58.800 --> 01:30:01.080 Isn't this kind of how bad fates come about? 01:30:01.180 --> 01:30:03.440 I'm going to need an intermission just to figure it out. 01:30:03.440 --> 01:30:10.620 Now here come Papa, he's the one I jacked. 01:30:10.660 --> 01:30:12.920 Rune Hilda is the daughter with the armor on the rack. 01:30:13.000 --> 01:30:14.240 Does he lack indiscretion? 01:30:14.320 --> 01:30:15.260 He backs up quick. 01:30:15.360 --> 01:30:17.640 Daddy Bo don't ever seem to step to my brick. 01:30:17.720 --> 01:30:20.320 She got him by the fix of the beard, she's insistent. 01:30:20.400 --> 01:30:22.680 But the subtitles look good and I missed it. 01:30:22.760 --> 01:30:24.940 Odin don't get to get his son killing dragons. 01:30:25.160 --> 01:30:27.440 Still sounds like a job for the elder baggins. 01:30:27.500 --> 01:30:29.740 Ain't even alright to get his daughter to fix fights. 01:30:29.740 --> 01:30:31.800 It's about to go to sleep in my seat, alright. 01:30:31.980 --> 01:30:34.200 Because the music's hella stupid, it don't got no beats. 01:30:34.260 --> 01:30:36.600 And that's the 22nd time I heard the leitmotif. 01:30:36.640 --> 01:30:39.040 And I cite no grief, but opera ain't for me. 01:30:39.100 --> 01:30:42.500 It's for the kind of people, yo, who listen to the CBC and sip on tea. 01:30:42.600 --> 01:30:44.960 And read up on the paper, another intermission coming. 01:30:45.080 --> 01:30:46.320 I'ma be the great escaper. 01:30:53.580 --> 01:30:55.860 Sneaking out the lobby, got ushered by an usher. 01:30:55.940 --> 01:30:58.280 Showed me to my role and reminded me to hush up. 01:30:58.280 --> 01:31:00.420 I'm settled in, waiting for the boredom to commence. 01:31:00.580 --> 01:31:02.840 Definitely unprepared for what comes next. 01:31:02.880 --> 01:31:05.320 When the strings set in, and the horns come chasing. 01:31:05.520 --> 01:31:07.740 It's kinda like, I got rewarded for my patience. 01:31:07.940 --> 01:31:09.980 This is more like it, this I could keep. 01:31:10.300 --> 01:31:12.140 Ladies in helmets, you ride 18. 01:31:12.340 --> 01:31:14.920 Moving down in my seat, I'm rocking and squirming. 01:31:15.040 --> 01:31:17.240 Even the mobs got over the fact that they're talking German. 01:31:17.360 --> 01:31:19.460 I'm learning, I might even have to come back. 01:31:19.540 --> 01:31:21.880 Wonder if they sell a ticket for just the third act. 01:31:21.980 --> 01:31:23.620 Dashed on the way out, did I follow? 01:31:23.720 --> 01:31:24.440 I say sort of. 01:31:24.440 --> 01:31:26.680 And I got to say, I'm glad that we're with the rings that there's an order. 01:31:26.820 --> 01:31:31.560 I saw a lot of similarities, but I'm pretty sure that this was an adaptation of Star Wars. 01:31:32.260 --> 01:31:33.940 I mean, you know, the twins and everything. 01:31:34.640 --> 01:31:36.160 I'll probably go look it up on the internet. 01:31:37.020 --> 01:31:38.180 You know, just to be sure. 01:31:38.180 --> 01:31:58.440 You know, just to be sure.