WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:09.460 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:09.760 --> 00:15.520 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:15.520 --> 00:16.600 and a fag pwned. 00:16.720 --> 00:21.640 In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold. 00:21.900 --> 00:26.440 I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable. 00:26.440 --> 00:32.460 On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero. 00:32.680 --> 00:38.360 In a flash, I'll screw you on burning Dreamcast. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle. 00:38.700 --> 00:43.520 Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug. 00:43.840 --> 00:47.540 I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z. 00:47.880 --> 00:52.100 Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely. 00:52.220 --> 00:56.280 You feel that rattling your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones. 00:56.440 --> 01:00.720 And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:00.960 --> 01:03.500 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:03.940 --> 01:06.600 This is dedicated to the hackers and the craters. 01:07.060 --> 01:11.640 Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs. 01:11.880 --> 01:14.200 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack. 01:14.200 --> 01:27.620 Hello, everybody, and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode number 198, inching ever closer to the big 200, big milestone episode coming up. 01:27.760 --> 01:36.740 But, in the meantime, we are going to continue bringing you what we like to think is good episodes of mixed, assorted content. 01:36.740 --> 01:41.420 And joining me in that endeavor this week is our frequent co-host, Savant. 01:41.500 --> 01:42.520 Welcome to the show, my friend. 01:43.360 --> 01:43.960 Oh, yeah. 01:44.200 --> 01:44.920 Oh, yeah. 01:45.120 --> 01:50.880 We got a lot of good jokes at my expense on my Kool-Aid infatuation. 01:51.620 --> 01:55.260 I still laugh at Cherry Anthrax, so I think that was the funniest part for me. 01:55.260 --> 01:59.840 But, today we are going to do a DEFCON 15 wrap-up episode. 02:00.640 --> 02:08.480 A couple weeks departed, I guess, because I actually stayed in Las Vegas for an extra nine, well, for a total of nine days. 02:08.560 --> 02:10.600 So, I stayed an extra six or seven days afterwards. 02:10.760 --> 02:13.660 So, I've only been back for a week, a little less than a week. 02:14.500 --> 02:17.440 So, we're going to do a little DEFCON 15 wrap-up later. 02:17.800 --> 02:22.520 So, let's see what other housekeeping we need to get out of the way here before we get started. 02:22.520 --> 02:28.160 First big thing, of course, is that our new BINREV T-shirts are now available. 02:28.940 --> 02:31.940 The tiny URL to that is 2... 02:31.940 --> 02:34.880 Wow, what a terrible... 02:34.880 --> 02:35.900 Okay, 2 the number. 02:36.120 --> 02:37.420 That's number 2. 02:38.040 --> 02:41.420 T-O-F-8-8. 02:41.720 --> 02:47.320 So, 2TOF88 is the tiny URL to the page to order. 02:47.320 --> 02:54.080 Or, you can just go to forums.binrev.com and you'll see pinned at the top of the General Hacking Forward the link to it as well. 02:54.640 --> 03:05.960 So, the two shirts that we basically debuted at our local BINREV meetings here in Florida and then took them first mass availability, if you want to call it that, was at DEFCON. 03:05.960 --> 03:12.820 So, at the DEFCON BINREV meeting, which had a good, I would say, 30 people or so there. 03:13.820 --> 03:19.980 At least 20, because in my row of tables, there were like 4 people per table and there were at least 5 tables deep. 03:20.800 --> 03:22.900 So, there's at least 20 just on my row of tables. 03:23.080 --> 03:28.500 So, I would say there's probably 30, 30 to 40 that actually came to the meeting, would you think? 03:28.500 --> 03:30.680 Yeah, I think so. 03:30.960 --> 03:33.960 But remember, you were not selling the shirts at DEFCON. 03:34.040 --> 03:42.300 Right, I was not, not selling, I mean, I was, yeah, I was not selling the shirts because that would be wrong because they charge vendors. 03:42.640 --> 03:47.620 So, I was, yeah, I was asked not to not sell shirts. 03:48.240 --> 03:49.020 Wait a minute, what? 03:50.780 --> 03:55.640 Yeah, they charge, I believe it's 300 bucks, not positive of that. 03:55.640 --> 04:00.240 I think they probably charge whatever they feel like to certain vendors, get breaks or something. 04:00.380 --> 04:03.540 But, I think they charge 300 bucks for a vendor booth at DEFCON. 04:03.680 --> 04:07.760 So, they don't want people in there selling things off of their shoulder. 04:08.600 --> 04:13.300 So, I was asked if I was selling things off the shoulder and I said, of course I'm not. 04:13.960 --> 04:16.520 So, I was asked to not sell them somewhere else. 04:17.240 --> 04:21.640 So, I was not selling BINREV t-shirts in the vendor area. 04:21.640 --> 04:31.000 I was, however, giving them away to some of our forum members who we've known for a long time and who just totally by coincidence happened to owe me $15. 04:31.380 --> 04:36.280 That was just, that was completely, what a weird coincidence that everybody who wanted the shirts. 04:36.280 --> 04:37.320 It just happened then. 04:37.480 --> 04:40.460 Yeah, it's exactly, it's funny how things work out that way. 04:41.420 --> 04:42.060 So, anyway. 04:42.180 --> 04:42.200 That's all. 04:42.200 --> 04:49.000 So, we are finally putting up some shirts, you know, it's something I've been meaning to do for a while. 04:49.220 --> 04:53.560 But, we're kind of, actually, I don't want to turn this into off the hook or anything. 04:53.720 --> 05:03.220 I think T-Oxy made that joke to me about, you know, coming on the air and begging for money and trying to do fundraising and PBS and off the hook begathons and all that good stuff. 05:03.220 --> 05:13.260 But, we're not going to go that far, but I will say that if you buy the shirts, which are available at the aforementioned URL, that's going to help fund some other upcoming big projects that we have. 05:13.340 --> 05:15.080 You know, I don't want to beg for money for nothing. 05:15.220 --> 05:17.740 I'd like to try to give people something for their money. 05:17.900 --> 05:26.200 So, if you want to help support BINREV and some of the future endeavors, please order some shirts and anything else we might be rolling out soon. 05:26.240 --> 05:28.520 I've got some other things in the pipeline. 05:29.460 --> 05:32.260 Hey, I have a cool story about the t-shirts, actually, real quick. 05:32.260 --> 05:33.740 Oh, no, not that story, is it? 05:33.740 --> 05:37.400 At work, we do video surveillance, hardware, and software testing. 05:37.740 --> 05:48.120 And, when I wear my orange shirt to work, the orange Inmate 31337 shirt, if you look on the screen to work, it, like, freaks out the hardware. 05:48.260 --> 05:56.700 The cameras just panic when they see that bright orange color that causes crazy distortion and, you know, dragging across the screen and artifacting. 05:56.700 --> 06:05.200 And so, the joke is, is that if we ever wanted to rob a bank that has these certain type of cameras, we'd just all wear these bright orange shirts and we'd be completely invisible. 06:05.420 --> 06:09.780 Dude, now, I so, so totally want to see what that video looks like now. 06:10.700 --> 06:17.560 All right, I'll have to see if I can sneak out some screenshots, even though that would be a blatant violation of company policy. 06:17.560 --> 06:19.440 Well, it doesn't, it doesn't have to be from there. 06:19.500 --> 06:21.820 We can find another place that has the same model camera. 06:21.940 --> 06:24.660 Actually, let's test it and see if it works on other types of cameras as well. 06:25.440 --> 06:26.180 That is true. 06:26.440 --> 06:27.080 Very cool. 06:27.240 --> 06:28.600 Now, I didn't, I had no idea. 06:28.660 --> 06:29.600 That's really cool. 06:29.600 --> 06:32.600 I mean, I mean, I knew that all along. 06:33.220 --> 06:36.920 It was part of my master hack the planet plan. 06:37.720 --> 06:39.240 Leap stealth cotton technology. 06:40.240 --> 06:45.640 And, also part of the plan is the one part on the shirt that would stand out, the inmate number 31337. 06:45.960 --> 06:51.160 Well, they all say that, so they can't isolate it down to one inmate number like the DOC. 06:51.320 --> 06:54.620 You know, we're not, we should have assigned random numbers on every shirt. 06:54.720 --> 06:57.420 That might have been kind of cool too, but t-shirt printing doesn't. 06:57.420 --> 06:58.320 It's not a proud affair. 06:58.320 --> 06:59.900 Yeah, it doesn't quite work that way. 07:01.300 --> 07:02.640 What else in housekeeping? 07:03.220 --> 07:03.620 Seal. 07:03.760 --> 07:06.880 I've got to give congratulations to Seal, our newest DDP member. 07:07.500 --> 07:08.660 Long overdue, actually. 07:08.760 --> 07:11.420 Seal's been the forum's admin for a long, long time. 07:11.620 --> 07:15.380 And, probably this has been a long time coming as well, but we finally made it official. 07:15.560 --> 07:17.860 So, welcome him on to the team. 07:17.880 --> 07:18.220 Big up, buddy. 07:19.200 --> 07:24.640 And, did we want to take a, well, did you have any other housekeeping first? 07:24.640 --> 07:32.260 And, still, I'll pass this over to you, because did we want to talk about the Joy Bubbles news that came out this past week? 07:32.260 --> 07:45.060 Yeah, since we, since the last episode of BinRev, I believe it was since 197, legendary phone freak Joe Joy Bubbles and Gretia passed away through mysterious circumstances. 07:45.060 --> 07:52.940 And, it was so mysterious, in fact, that for a while people were having a hard time confirming it, and it just was written off to be a vicious rumor. 07:53.340 --> 07:57.620 But, no, it's the bad truth that, unfortunately, he's passed away recently. 07:58.280 --> 07:58.640 Wow. 07:59.640 --> 08:07.820 You know, it's kind of funny, my girl was asking me, you know, if you could meet any hacker, phone freak, or whomever, you know, who would it be? 08:07.880 --> 08:12.940 And, I was like, well, you know, are we talking still alive, you know, not like Albert Einstein or something like that? 08:12.980 --> 08:13.940 And, she said, yeah, alive. 08:14.000 --> 08:23.320 And, I said, well, I mean, I've met quite a few of my quote-unquote idols that I had growing up, but really the only one I could think of was Joy Bubbles. 08:23.320 --> 08:26.800 And, I was like, yeah, he's the last one that's still alive that I'd really like to meet. 08:26.880 --> 08:31.840 And, then, lo and behold, I go to work the very next day, and Gene Eric told me, yeah, he passed away yesterday. 08:32.720 --> 08:33.040 Wow. 08:33.640 --> 08:41.700 It was, yeah, you know, I, so, if Stephen Hawking dropped dead within the next week, that has nothing to do with me. 08:42.200 --> 08:42.480 Yeah. 08:43.160 --> 08:44.680 Well, yeah, I would. 08:44.700 --> 08:45.540 He was the other one, I said. 08:45.660 --> 08:50.280 Yeah, I would, I would love to meet Hawking, too, but, I mean, where am I going to cross paths? 08:50.280 --> 08:51.960 He's not going to be a DEFCON, I don't think. 08:51.960 --> 08:55.460 Like, although, maybe we could get him to come to DEFCON. 08:55.520 --> 08:56.460 How late would that be? 08:57.220 --> 08:58.160 That'd be pretty late. 08:58.260 --> 09:01.040 I would pay for his ticket, gladly, to get him to DEFCON. 09:03.860 --> 09:07.340 Maybe we could have him make a guest appearance on one of the radio shows. 09:07.700 --> 09:08.280 Good evening. 09:08.520 --> 09:08.820 Hello. 09:09.360 --> 09:10.640 Welcome to the universe. 09:11.480 --> 09:13.580 How would anybody know if it was the real him? 09:14.280 --> 09:15.620 Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. 09:15.780 --> 09:17.520 Like, how do we know that it's really him anyway? 09:17.740 --> 09:20.920 I mean, we just see a guy in a wheelchair clicking a button. 09:21.120 --> 09:21.300 I mean. 09:21.300 --> 09:23.900 It's like Wizard of Oz type shit. 09:24.020 --> 09:25.880 It's the guy who's on the screen with a microphone. 09:27.000 --> 09:29.160 We could have MC Hawking on here. 09:29.240 --> 09:31.020 Maybe we could get MC Hawking to do an episode. 09:31.160 --> 09:31.920 That's more reasonable. 09:31.940 --> 09:33.340 I think I could pull that one off, maybe. 09:34.060 --> 09:37.180 I know some friends of some friends that might be able to pull that one off. 09:37.180 --> 09:48.720 But, well, I guess on that sad nose, we will probably translate into the email for a pseudo moment of silence. 09:48.900 --> 09:54.400 But I guess let's just move into some email and try to keep the show on a brighter note. 09:54.400 --> 09:55.620 Okay. 09:55.620 --> 09:55.680 Okay. 09:55.680 --> 10:18.800 And our first email this week. 10:18.800 --> 10:22.940 We got quite a few, obviously, since it's so much time between episodes these days. 10:22.940 --> 10:30.360 Well, actually, before I go to the individual emails, we did get an email from the guys over at the Linux Link Tech show. 10:30.360 --> 10:38.500 And it does, as I suspected, it was their stream, the mystery stream that was playing on DDP Hack Radio that people were hearing a couple weeks ago. 10:38.980 --> 10:40.620 That was the Linux Link Tech show. 10:40.700 --> 10:44.760 I kind of had a feeling because they do stream live, and it was about that time frame. 10:44.760 --> 10:47.180 So, I still think it would be funny. 10:47.280 --> 10:51.940 I'd like to know if anybody captured any of that stream so we can go through it and see if there's any good stuff in there, anything juicy. 10:52.640 --> 10:58.800 You know, I'd love to catch Dan singing along to American Idol or watching Prawn or something like that. 10:58.860 --> 11:02.640 I think that might be pretty funny, something of that ilk, if you will. 11:03.780 --> 11:10.820 So, and again, I think I said this last week, too, but congratulations on them for passing 200 episodes. 11:10.820 --> 11:16.540 That's very, very cool, and that is a big accomplishment that we're hoping to pull off ourselves in a couple more episodes. 11:17.300 --> 11:19.400 But let's move on to some email here. 11:19.540 --> 11:23.240 First email this week comes from Aethon. 11:23.400 --> 11:23.880 Aethon. 11:24.140 --> 11:24.620 Aethon? 11:26.140 --> 11:26.620 Aethon. 11:26.680 --> 11:27.920 That's why I'm going with Aethon. 11:28.740 --> 11:29.620 Aethon says, 11:29.740 --> 11:38.320 Hi, I was just listening to BinRevRadio197, and you guys made a curious statement that there is no reason for one building to have multiple area codes in it for landlines. 11:38.320 --> 11:41.500 This is not true in areas that have overlay plans. 11:41.980 --> 11:51.740 For instance, the Denver Metro area has both the 303 and 720 area codes fully overlapped, and landlines require that you do dial 10 digits for every call, even local. 11:52.160 --> 12:01.640 I know that other areas also have overlay plans, which would mean that one building having multiple area codes for landlines would not be unheard of and likely common for apartment complexes. 12:01.640 --> 12:11.780 Now, you probably can speak a little bit more intelligently about this to me, so let me kind of respond to this first, and you tell me if I go wrong here or where I go wrong. 12:11.780 --> 12:27.340 Because I also, I live down in Fort Lauderdale, Miami area, and we had 10-digit mandatory dialing as well, and that's all well and good that they have full overlay in these certain areas. 12:27.340 --> 12:44.240 Of course, Fort Lauderdale, I think, was 9-5-4-8, and Miami was 3-0-5, but I can tell you I have never seen a complex and mixed and matched NPAs, even though technically it may be possible. 12:44.340 --> 12:46.120 I don't think we ever said it was not possible. 12:46.760 --> 12:50.740 I think we said that it was not likely, and I still say this. 12:50.740 --> 12:59.740 In a real-world scenario, I don't see how this could logically work out to happen, not that it technically can't happen, but logically. 13:00.220 --> 13:11.720 If somebody has a specific example, I'd like to hear about it, especially, we all know, with number portability, of course, that's really more for cell phones, I guess, but not so much with VoIP lines. 13:11.720 --> 13:17.300 I ported my VoIP line around a few different places and still have a very out-of-place area code. 13:17.300 --> 13:24.400 So anything is possible from the technical standpoint, but here's my – I'll throw this over to you. 13:24.680 --> 13:32.560 The phone company and the traditional landlines, they set up their switches, their mini-computer out at the – what do they call it? 13:34.940 --> 13:36.120 What do they call the box? 13:36.480 --> 13:45.340 No, yeah, the little box out at the entrance of the neighborhood or something like that, the gray box out there that has all the switching and stuff for your particular neighborhood, 13:45.340 --> 13:49.020 little system that routes all the phone calls, obviously. 13:50.280 --> 13:50.480 Well – 13:50.480 --> 13:56.040 I know what you're talking about, but I know if I try and come up with a name, I'll invariably be wrong like I always am. 13:56.120 --> 13:56.560 I wish – 13:56.560 --> 13:58.980 Even strong or black rats, you're going to slap me in the face. 13:59.040 --> 14:02.880 Yeah, and I know I could call zero dB and he'd know right off the hand, but oh well. 14:03.440 --> 14:07.760 Anyway, that box is where all that equipment is held, and of course I admit I'm not a phone guy here, 14:07.760 --> 14:15.800 but when apartments and housing complexes and whatnot are built, the phone company comes out and lays that infrastructure 14:15.800 --> 14:23.420 and populates that box based on the number of houses in the area and expandability for the potential 14:23.420 --> 14:28.520 or at least an estimate or a guess of how many – how much growth there might be, how many new houses might be added 14:28.520 --> 14:31.780 and what kind of capacity that they're going to need for that area. 14:32.000 --> 14:39.020 So that's all set up and installed there when these neighborhoods expand and are built. 14:40.040 --> 14:45.720 Well, logically that means they're going to assign a large – let's say they build an apartment building, 14:45.800 --> 14:46.800 they start populating it. 14:46.820 --> 14:51.060 They're immediately going to start assigning from one NPA and one NXX, 14:51.540 --> 14:55.700 and they're going to start assigning them, maybe not from the same NXX, but from the same NPA, 14:56.140 --> 14:57.580 and start assigning those out there. 14:57.580 --> 15:04.600 Now, if they run out, I guess it is technically possible – like let's say the capacity of the switch is reached 15:04.600 --> 15:10.280 and they actually have to send a technician out there to add new cards in there, to add more capacity. 15:10.860 --> 15:16.420 Even if they do that, technically – and correct me if I'm wrong here – technically, I guess they could program it 15:16.420 --> 15:18.980 with a different NPA altogether. 15:19.820 --> 15:22.580 You know, if there's full overlay – I think – what was this example? 15:24.580 --> 15:25.660 303 and 720. 15:25.660 --> 15:31.300 Technically, they could program that new switch to use the other one, but I just don't see that happen in practice. 15:31.460 --> 15:36.180 It's not like they've run out of, let's say, 303, for example. 15:36.520 --> 15:43.680 If they've got 303s left and they send somebody to the general 303 area where the building is already using 303 numbers, 15:43.680 --> 15:50.480 I just don't think that they, in practicality, will assign a completely different area code. 15:50.480 --> 15:56.280 I just don't think that's what they do unless they have no other choice, and that just seems pretty rare to me. 15:56.280 --> 16:08.040 Well, I think that as they start to plan for other expansion – well, for example, my grandparents lived in 619 for the longest time while I was growing up. 16:08.040 --> 16:12.340 619 is the predominant, you know, San Diego proper area code. 16:12.340 --> 16:18.980 And sometime – God, I want to say when I was like 10 or 12 – they ended up switching over to 858 all of a sudden. 16:18.980 --> 16:27.140 And I remember trying to reach my grandma and her other phone number using 7-digit dialing, having 7-brand-a-person answer the phone. 16:27.680 --> 16:31.900 And I think that's when I first started figuring out that, you know, it wasn't all just one giant numbering system. 16:31.900 --> 16:38.700 So, I mean, it can, it does happen, where they will take one, you know, a ring and tip pair will, you know, 16:38.780 --> 16:42.080 all over the same physical trunk line going back to the same central office, 16:42.600 --> 16:48.140 depending on how the numbering plan is going to be shifted around, a plan for, you know, further expansion, 16:48.280 --> 16:51.780 especially in large cities like San Diego or, you know, parts of Florida. 16:53.040 --> 16:54.140 You know, it does happen. 16:54.140 --> 17:03.200 And since phone switches are nowadays, you know, just big computers, it's usually a simple matter of reprogramming the tables. 17:04.220 --> 17:05.840 Yes, certainly, technically. 17:06.020 --> 17:08.560 And, you know, actually, you did mention something that made me think there. 17:08.640 --> 17:16.520 You know, it's – they may come in and assign a new area code or try to adjust or move area codes based on population increasing. 17:17.380 --> 17:23.180 And they may assign the new area code to new people moving into a complex or building or a community. 17:23.180 --> 17:27.540 And let the old ones slowly grandfather their way out. 17:27.640 --> 17:32.160 They'll keep them and hang on to them, but they'll just wait for the cycle to process out. 17:32.220 --> 17:33.960 I guess that is a very realistic possibility. 17:34.100 --> 17:35.420 I did not think of that at all. 17:35.980 --> 17:38.500 Or even new businesses as they're constructed. 17:38.680 --> 17:43.480 You know, you'll have large areas of undeveloped land that will all be within a bulk of an area. 17:43.880 --> 17:47.820 And then you've got, you know, the people fringe of the area codes, like on the edge of 619. 17:47.820 --> 17:53.680 Or, you know, towards the top two-thirds of the numbering map. 17:54.120 --> 17:56.620 Then I could see those things will eventually get shifted over. 17:56.820 --> 18:09.680 I mean, I guess it's sort of akin to an IRC net split where, you know, servers will just desync to the point where it will be two completely different servers. 18:09.680 --> 18:14.540 How big of a geek does that make us for comparing this to an IRC net split? 18:15.420 --> 18:15.860 I know. 18:16.140 --> 18:22.880 The weird part about it is that I may be slightly more authoritative to talk on this subject, but only marginally slow. 18:23.000 --> 18:27.320 And you know you're going to get a shitload of emails for episode 199 and 200. 18:27.560 --> 18:31.300 People are talking so much shit about how little I actually know about the matter. 18:31.860 --> 18:33.780 My world and welcome to it. 18:33.780 --> 18:40.520 Yeah, I have a feeling like Blackrash is going to have a stern finger shaking for me on Wednesday morning. 18:41.740 --> 18:42.500 Oh, well. 18:42.600 --> 18:44.020 Or tomorrow morning, as it were. 18:45.200 --> 18:48.940 Well, thank you, Atheon, Aethon, Aethon, Aethon. 18:49.240 --> 18:50.280 I'm just going to say Aethon. 18:50.480 --> 18:51.700 Thank you, Aethon, for the email. 18:51.880 --> 18:53.980 Very, very interesting topic there. 18:53.980 --> 18:59.360 I guess there are some possibilities that I maybe didn't see last week or last episode, I should say. 18:59.480 --> 19:00.780 So thank you for pointing that out. 19:00.860 --> 19:03.340 There are some, but I still say it's very rare. 19:03.780 --> 19:07.460 I still think that's very rare, especially in the same building. 19:07.980 --> 19:11.740 In the same building, ah, that's, it seems like to me that's... 19:11.740 --> 19:12.300 I find it hard to believe. 19:12.480 --> 19:23.100 I mean, I would think that, I mean, I'm sure it happens, but I would think that for the most part, if a building was going to be, if it was on the edge where they were going to shift area codes, that they would just go ahead and do the whole building. 19:23.600 --> 19:32.520 Yeah, have you ever heard any stories of someone being told, we are changing all the numbers in your building or we're forcing you to change the number? 19:32.520 --> 19:35.060 I mean, can they, I don't know if they can legally do that. 19:35.240 --> 19:36.800 I've never heard a story like that before. 19:36.800 --> 19:42.800 Well, I mean, since the early 90s when Grammy had, uh, where she hit it up to the 858s. 19:43.840 --> 19:49.720 But, I mean, even then, it was so long ago that I don't even recall the circumstance or even know if I was old enough to care. 19:49.720 --> 19:58.180 Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to remember if I've, yeah, I can't think of any examples, but, anyway, good, good, uh, email there. 19:58.260 --> 19:58.860 Thank you for that. 19:59.260 --> 20:04.120 Uh, next email comes from Enigma Entity, or E2, we're going to call him E2. 20:04.700 --> 20:05.480 Hey there, Stank Dog. 20:05.540 --> 20:08.460 Just wanted to say hello and that the site radio show rocks. 20:08.540 --> 20:13.700 A quick little bit of background for you is I accidentally stumbled across one of the MP3s from a HOPE conference. 20:13.700 --> 20:17.920 I heard your MP3 and the show that you did while there and got a bit interested. 20:18.960 --> 20:23.180 Um, that, yeah, there's been three or four, so I'm not sure which one you heard. 20:23.280 --> 20:26.660 But, anyway, I came to the site and downloaded all of the MP3s. 20:26.700 --> 20:29.260 I believe that you were on episode 189, maybe. 20:29.460 --> 20:32.820 Okay, well, 198 as of this one, so we'll chalk that up to dyslexia. 20:33.480 --> 20:36.240 Uh, anyway, I wanted to listen to all of them in a row. 20:36.420 --> 20:37.280 Good luck with that. 20:37.360 --> 20:38.260 It's going to take you a while. 20:38.260 --> 20:43.720 And I'm currently on episode 103, but I will finish that tonight. 20:44.380 --> 20:51.260 I am still new to this side of the site and don't want to dig up old threads if they are there regarding feedback on old episodes. 20:51.620 --> 20:57.220 I have noticed that you usually have new content every week and don't normally revisit topics that you have done. 20:57.760 --> 20:59.380 My question for you is this. 20:59.660 --> 21:03.060 If I have a little bit of feedback from some of your episodes, or a lot, 21:03.460 --> 21:08.180 usually just a link or more resources that you've worked well, that have worked well for me in the past, 21:09.140 --> 21:14.460 i.e., at the end of BR 103, you were talking about CMS, content management systems, 21:14.540 --> 21:21.160 and I would have mentioned opensourcecms.com, that is, working demos of fresh installs, refreshed every two hours. 21:21.820 --> 21:23.600 What should I do with that feedback? 21:24.020 --> 21:25.600 Score one for run-on sentences. 21:25.740 --> 21:26.920 Yes, you get a point for that. 21:27.400 --> 21:31.100 I don't want to flood you with crap or anything, and I just wanted to know what your preference is. 21:31.100 --> 21:36.060 Should I just see if there is an appropriate thread in the forum, compile them all into a novel, 21:36.060 --> 21:40.700 and send them once I am caught up, or just forget about it unless it is brought up. 21:41.800 --> 21:45.760 All right, well, E2, here's how that works. 21:46.620 --> 21:51.340 I don't have a problem with you thread digging under the Hacker Media section. 21:51.520 --> 21:55.400 Dig up the thread that's appropriate to the episode of BinRev Radio that you're talking about. 21:55.560 --> 21:59.800 I think that's more organized, and I don't mind thread digging if you're actually adding content. 21:59.800 --> 22:04.460 It's people that dig up threads for no damn good reason just because they think it's funny or whatever, 22:04.640 --> 22:06.000 or something that's old and tired. 22:06.300 --> 22:07.920 Well, add a pack of lull on the end of it or something. 22:07.920 --> 22:09.120 Yeah, I agree. 22:09.660 --> 22:10.280 Me too. 22:11.600 --> 22:12.160 That sort of thing. 22:12.160 --> 22:14.000 Yeah, four years ago, me too, huh, buddy? 22:14.060 --> 22:16.440 Yeah, it was the last fucking horse to cross the finish line. 22:16.700 --> 22:16.980 Yeah. 22:17.260 --> 22:19.180 Was there any progress on this? 22:19.300 --> 22:20.860 Question, question, question, question. 22:20.940 --> 22:22.100 It's four years old! 22:22.360 --> 22:23.700 No, there's no progress. 22:23.980 --> 22:25.020 That's why it's dead. 22:25.740 --> 22:27.420 The technology is obsolete. 22:27.680 --> 22:28.400 Hey, thanks, bye. 22:28.400 --> 22:30.780 Exactly, exactly. 22:31.040 --> 22:35.800 So, secondly, as far as on the radio show, if you send something in on the radio show, 22:36.360 --> 22:40.880 you know, I do screen all the emails, and I read the ones that I think are important or can add to the show, 22:40.960 --> 22:45.580 and if I think, you know, what you sent isn't too old or outdated or no good, 22:45.620 --> 22:47.040 then I just won't read it on the show. 22:47.740 --> 22:51.000 That kind of sucks for you because if you go to the trouble of writing it all out, 22:51.020 --> 22:52.580 and then I don't use it, then you get pissed. 22:52.580 --> 22:57.540 So, I would say go in the forums, bring it up, or just start a new thread. 22:57.540 --> 22:59.320 Don't even reference BinRevRadio. 22:59.420 --> 23:02.060 I mean, I'm glad that we got you thinking and brought up the topic. 23:02.500 --> 23:05.320 You can bring it up in just a normal thread. 23:05.420 --> 23:13.180 Say, hey, in the links section, here's a cool opensourcecms.com site that has fresh working demos of content management systems. 23:13.860 --> 23:18.440 You know, you can always just put that kind of stuff in the forums without referencing BRR as well. 23:18.440 --> 23:29.880 So, finally, if it's way, you know, we do not, you're correct in that we don't rehash topics as far as the main show topic. 23:29.980 --> 23:30.760 We try not to. 23:30.800 --> 23:31.640 There's a couple exceptions. 23:31.820 --> 23:33.900 We've done, you know, Java part one and two. 23:33.960 --> 23:38.220 If there's a big topic that we can't fit in one episode, we will stretch it out. 23:38.220 --> 23:44.780 But, yeah, we try to keep each main topic different each week and kind of keep it fresh and new. 23:45.480 --> 23:53.400 But, yes, in subsequent episodes of the radio show, we'll readdress topics in terms of follow-up emails from people. 23:53.400 --> 24:02.740 So, even though you heard that in episode 103, I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure that in, if not that episode, which you say we didn't, 24:03.120 --> 24:06.600 in one of the follow-up episodes, we did mention opensourcecms.com. 24:06.900 --> 24:08.620 Boy, I'm plugging the hell out of them tonight. 24:08.720 --> 24:10.160 That's like four or five mentions. 24:11.740 --> 24:12.880 opensourcecms.com. 24:12.980 --> 24:13.840 Try it today. 24:14.020 --> 24:14.540 Ta-ting. 24:15.560 --> 24:17.420 I'm pretty sure we mentioned that somewhere. 24:17.620 --> 24:18.860 Somebody brought it in the follow-up email. 24:18.860 --> 24:23.660 So, just because you didn't hear it 103, before you go typing up the novel or sending it in or whatever, 24:23.720 --> 24:25.180 you might want to listen to 104 or 105. 24:25.420 --> 24:29.980 If you haven't heard it within two or three episodes, then, yes, it'd probably be safe to bring it up. 24:30.480 --> 24:32.440 So, keep that in mind if you're going back there. 24:32.520 --> 24:39.160 But any kind of additional resources, information, or corrections, obviously, as in the email above, or questions, 24:39.540 --> 24:45.760 we'll gladly share that on subsequent episodes or in the forum, whichever one you think is appropriate or however you want to handle it. 24:45.760 --> 24:51.780 Just be careful that, you know, we didn't touch on it in one of the following episodes when the original one aired. 24:54.660 --> 24:55.380 Let's see. 24:55.660 --> 24:59.860 I want to make sure we have time here, so let's burn through some emails quickly. 25:00.400 --> 25:03.580 I'm going to go into my high-speed voice, if that's all right with you, Savant. 25:04.560 --> 25:05.380 High-speed voice. 25:05.860 --> 25:06.600 Not that high. 25:06.640 --> 25:07.680 It's not the chipmunk style. 25:08.500 --> 25:11.180 So, just jump in and interrupt me if you do want to add to any of these. 25:11.240 --> 25:13.880 But I'm going to start reading more quickly. 25:13.880 --> 25:16.720 Well, real quick, he listened to 103 episodes in how long? 25:17.280 --> 25:18.620 I don't think he said how long. 25:19.240 --> 25:20.160 I don't think he said how long. 25:20.220 --> 25:25.960 He just said he listened to them, found one of our MP3s from the Hope Conference that got him interested, 25:26.200 --> 25:28.840 and he started listening to them in a row. 25:28.940 --> 25:30.220 So, he didn't say how long it took him. 25:31.040 --> 25:31.520 Fuck, man. 25:31.520 --> 25:32.340 He's putting me to shame. 25:32.400 --> 25:34.360 I haven't listened to 103 episodes in a row. 25:34.660 --> 25:35.840 Him or her. 25:36.460 --> 25:39.620 Yeah, like there's a her listening to the radio show. 25:39.660 --> 25:41.640 I think we've beaten that dead horse to death, too. 25:42.340 --> 25:42.580 Yeah. 25:42.580 --> 25:43.820 Tits or get to foe. 25:43.920 --> 25:45.580 That's the standard answer I think we have to do. 25:45.700 --> 25:48.020 That's the standard 4chan answer, right? 25:48.920 --> 25:49.720 Or get to foe. 25:49.880 --> 25:50.300 That's right. 25:50.780 --> 25:53.620 Did he, by the way, did you happen to notice, do you watch some Attack of the Show? 25:55.700 --> 25:56.400 Say that again? 25:56.460 --> 25:57.060 Attack of the Show. 25:57.120 --> 26:00.820 Attack of the Show on G4, Tech TV, whatever the hell it's called. 26:01.640 --> 26:03.120 No, I don't even get Tech TV. 26:03.120 --> 26:08.520 Well, Duel got me watching this damn show on, it's G4, it used to be Tech TV, I think it's 26:08.520 --> 26:13.100 G4, and it's an all gaming thing now, but Attack of the Show used to be called the Screensavers 26:13.100 --> 26:13.920 the way I understand it. 26:13.940 --> 26:16.100 I never watched it back then, because I didn't have Tech TV. 26:16.160 --> 26:20.260 Okay, I did see the Screensavers for a minute back there with our good buddy, Kevin. 26:20.700 --> 26:25.900 Yeah, let's, yeah, let's not throw the word good buddy around so easily there. 26:26.900 --> 26:30.720 But yes, that show has evolved into what is now Attack of the Show, and it's the closest 26:30.720 --> 26:32.500 thing they have to like a real tech show. 26:33.840 --> 26:39.780 As I go off on this tangent, so much for saving time, on one of the screenshots, they have a 26:39.780 --> 26:43.720 little computer right there at the table where they sometimes demo sites or bring something 26:43.720 --> 26:45.900 up, they want to look something up real quickly on demand. 26:46.620 --> 26:49.700 Well, they went to look something up, I don't even remember what it was, a blog or something 26:49.700 --> 26:54.440 like that, but he couldn't help but notice in the, in their Firefox browser window, there 26:54.440 --> 26:58.520 was another tab in the background to 4chan.org, which I thought was pretty funny. 26:59.420 --> 27:05.620 Huh, I tried, you know, I just recently started trying to read 4chan with specific regards to 27:05.620 --> 27:08.340 the B forum, and it just makes my brain melt. 27:08.420 --> 27:10.780 It's weird, it's weird. 27:10.900 --> 27:12.120 I can't so fucking get it. 27:12.200 --> 27:15.660 Yeah, it's, you know what, but it's surprising, you know what hooked me was Catterday, that's 27:15.660 --> 27:17.700 the only reason I ever go there, is to watch some Catterday. 27:17.700 --> 27:24.760 But anyway, back to these emails, Threadhat, email from Threadhat, it says, Stankdog, in 27:24.760 --> 27:29.200 episode 196, you mentioned that you were, quote, okay with red light cameras, unquote. 27:29.640 --> 27:34.640 The problem with them is that they don't take pictures of the driver's face, which, okay, 27:34.680 --> 27:39.920 I'm not sure if that's 100% correct, some maybe do, most probably don't, but point taken. 27:39.920 --> 27:44.140 Eh, okay, I mean, I know for a fact that some do, but, okay. 27:44.140 --> 27:48.240 Yeah, well, point taken, I mean, I don't think, most of them probably don't, especially the 27:48.240 --> 27:54.520 early first generation ones may not, but, because it's, well, yeah, I honestly don't 27:54.520 --> 27:55.980 know, but we'll take that at face value. 27:56.440 --> 27:59.980 Problem with them is they don't take pictures of driver's face, which means the police have 27:59.980 --> 28:02.360 no proof whatsoever as to who was driving the car. 28:02.740 --> 28:06.060 And he's about to give a few links, so I'm going to give him the benefit that he did some 28:06.060 --> 28:09.460 research and knows that to be correct, so I'm going to trust him on that one. 28:10.860 --> 28:13.360 Yes, they give the ticket to the owner of the car anyway. 28:13.980 --> 28:18.960 Privacy issues aside, this presents an enormous legal problem, innocent until proven guilty 28:18.960 --> 28:19.860 in all that mess. 28:20.660 --> 28:25.980 I believe that some people sued Minneapolis about the legality of red light cameras, and 28:25.980 --> 28:29.420 they won, so the city had to take the whole system down. 28:29.420 --> 28:41.000 Here's the article, and I tiny URL'd this to R, T, D, as in dog, S, and P, as in polite. 28:42.780 --> 28:43.180 Okay. 28:43.380 --> 28:46.180 That's not the first P word that popped into my mind, but I'll leave that alone. 28:46.200 --> 28:49.380 It's not within the first ten words that popped into my mind, but okay. 28:50.760 --> 28:51.120 Prostate? 28:51.260 --> 28:51.840 No, that's not. 28:52.720 --> 28:53.420 Check out the... 28:53.420 --> 28:56.960 Hey, I think that's the first time I've ever used the word prostate on an episode of 28:56.960 --> 28:58.800 BinRevRadio in almost 200 episodes. 28:58.880 --> 28:59.440 That's a first. 29:00.200 --> 29:00.760 There you go. 29:00.900 --> 29:02.520 We've got to take pride in small victories. 29:03.820 --> 29:05.300 Check out the following article. 29:05.400 --> 29:08.320 He gives a couple more links on here that I'm not going to give out. 29:08.760 --> 29:11.700 Wikipedia entry for road safety camera. 29:12.720 --> 29:14.120 Anyway, I love the show. 29:14.260 --> 29:15.620 Keep up the good work. 29:15.820 --> 29:16.140 All right. 29:16.140 --> 29:17.100 Thank you, ThreadHat. 29:17.300 --> 29:19.140 Quickly, yes... 29:19.720 --> 29:20.700 I've got a quick comment on that. 29:20.840 --> 29:21.580 Okay, go for it. 29:22.260 --> 29:22.600 All right. 29:22.660 --> 29:26.720 Well, my little brother had this beater car that he eventually had to get rid of. 29:26.960 --> 29:30.800 And so he sold it to some lady through the newspaper ad or whatever, maybe Craigslist. 29:31.320 --> 29:35.040 And he didn't follow through in processing the registration paperwork. 29:35.280 --> 29:38.260 So, lo and behold, one day he receives a ticket in the mail. 29:38.540 --> 29:40.060 And it's one of those little red light cameras. 29:40.680 --> 29:44.760 And it shows three different shots, one of which does have the license plate. 29:44.960 --> 29:48.640 But the other two feature a Mexican woman driving the car. 29:48.880 --> 29:49.280 Whoa. 29:49.280 --> 29:57.560 So, I mean, yeah, it wasn't very hard for him to challenge the ticket, other than, you know, a certain figure wagging for not updating the registration in time. 29:57.920 --> 29:59.840 But, I mean, that did kind of save his ass. 29:59.840 --> 29:59.920 Right. 30:00.920 --> 30:12.060 And, you know, the thing is, and that's one thing I certainly give credence to what he's saying, is that it probably would be tough to make a lot of these stand up in court. 30:12.120 --> 30:18.360 If there's no picture of the face at all, then, yeah, that's probably what happened in Minneapolis here, is there's no way of proving it. 30:18.360 --> 30:20.920 And you're innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. 30:20.920 --> 30:23.500 So, that's probably the case there. 30:23.560 --> 30:35.300 But if they would have had the face recognition, like what you're saying you know for a fact to exist, and if they catch a mistake like that, it's someone else's face, then that's easy to go in and disprove and save yourself. 30:35.560 --> 30:38.920 It's a pain in the ass that you had to go do that, or that they had to go do that. 30:39.020 --> 30:44.640 But, you know, like you said, he screwed up by not changing the registration, so he kind of brought that on himself. 30:45.280 --> 30:49.700 So, you know, I did say that, and I still do kind of personally feel that way. 30:49.700 --> 30:53.500 But, yeah, I would argue in court, there's all kinds of loopholes. 30:53.600 --> 30:55.740 I'm not saying that it's very sound legally. 30:56.300 --> 31:04.700 I'm just saying on a kind of, and I'm only speaking for myself on this one, this is not the biggest privacy concern that I have these days. 31:04.760 --> 31:13.380 There are so many more abuses of our privacy going on that, to me, red light cameras are just the smallest, you know, they're at the bottom of the hill. 31:14.220 --> 31:18.520 You know, I think there's much bigger fish in the pond that we need to be focusing on besides that. 31:18.520 --> 31:21.360 Like a warrantless wire test, for example. 31:21.680 --> 31:26.080 I mean, we could, yeah, we could go off into a whole episode and let's not. 31:26.940 --> 31:27.500 Let's not. 31:27.580 --> 31:36.700 But, I mean, honestly, I would think that these cameras for catching your everyday Joe Blow speeder, you know, they're going to work 99% of the time, 31:36.920 --> 31:39.780 or higher than 99% of the time, or something like that. 31:39.780 --> 31:46.840 So, aren't sure there's exceptions, and we could come up with them all day long, but I guess that's all I have to say about that. 31:48.840 --> 31:53.740 Let's see, next email is from Prince Vegeta, who seems to be a regular emailer on the show lately. 31:54.680 --> 31:57.380 But that's good, he's sending in some good stuff. 31:57.380 --> 32:03.880 He says, Dear Stank, this is in response to the CCTV episode, the closed circuit television. 32:05.540 --> 32:07.740 So, I got in trouble with the law. 32:08.180 --> 32:11.600 I'm going to shorten, I'm shortening his email with his permission. 32:11.600 --> 32:22.660 He had to go to a, to the police in this small town, small town, probably a small room, a couple people in there. 32:23.080 --> 32:29.020 I was shocked to see 10 computer monitors showing live streams of about 40 cameras installed in town. 32:29.660 --> 32:31.920 Above that, the system had some kind of software. 32:32.140 --> 32:35.600 You could see anything that moved focused using green and red rectangles. 32:36.400 --> 32:39.680 I saw a cat moving in the bushes and a bright green rectangle around it. 32:39.680 --> 32:46.500 I saw cars moving by some, by, some with green rectangles, and one in particular had a red rectangle. 32:46.820 --> 32:49.740 I asked the cop about that, and he said that car was speeding. 32:50.160 --> 32:50.400 Cool. 32:50.900 --> 32:52.840 They didn't send a patrol car. 32:53.000 --> 32:57.680 Plus, any two rectangles that intersected, I can't find a better word, became red. 32:57.800 --> 32:58.360 That's cool. 32:58.720 --> 33:02.280 So, if you get hit on the road by a drunk driver, at least the cops saw it. 33:02.700 --> 33:03.840 Too bad, you're dead. 33:04.600 --> 33:06.240 So, about that, what do you think? 33:06.240 --> 33:07.180 Is this CCTV? 33:07.180 --> 33:10.020 How do you think they send the data from the cameras to the central computers? 33:10.120 --> 33:11.980 Can I find this kind of software on the int? 33:12.600 --> 33:14.040 That would be the interweb, I guess. 33:14.900 --> 33:20.040 Do you think that someone could hack the signal and see what the cops see? 33:21.180 --> 33:23.180 Um, uh, oh shit. 33:23.340 --> 33:26.500 Well, you can speak very authoritatively on this subject. 33:26.600 --> 33:26.960 Right. 33:26.960 --> 33:30.000 And, Matt, that's what I do for a living. 33:30.180 --> 33:35.040 I develop and test this hardware and software, but I don't want to drop the box on my screen. 33:35.180 --> 33:36.040 Yeah, be careful. 33:37.280 --> 33:42.900 Um, let me, let me, let me do, let me do this. 33:43.380 --> 33:44.040 Let me do this. 33:44.120 --> 33:48.220 Let me throw out a couple things, and you can give me true or false as responses. 33:48.220 --> 33:53.320 Um, I'm, I would assume they're encrypted pretty well. 33:55.000 --> 33:56.540 Any of these signals coming through? 33:56.660 --> 33:57.380 Okay, well. 33:58.820 --> 34:03.580 If, if, okay, I'll just take that for what it's worth. 34:03.680 --> 34:04.280 Moving on. 34:04.280 --> 34:24.460 If they were not encrypted, then it would make it much easier, but you would have to know how they're being transmitted, whether it's wired or wireless, and in whichever case, and somehow connect to that frequency or connect to that hard wire running wherever it's running and intercepted. 34:24.500 --> 34:29.400 If it's not encrypted, then, yeah, there's really not a whole lot more to it. 34:29.400 --> 34:44.500 If it is encrypted, then, depending on what kind of encryption they use, if they're, actually, I was talking about this at my, uh, with one of my BR407 guys the other day, Ice Toad, about, um, if it was simply just WEP encryption or something like that. 34:44.560 --> 34:54.860 We all know how easy it is to crack WEP anymore, so it would be a pretty easy matter of cracking WEP and then still recording and seeing everything that is being transmitted over there. 34:54.860 --> 34:59.320 So unless they're not encrypted with strong encryption, it's just like anything else. 34:59.400 --> 35:12.560 Well, uh, so, majority of old-school closed-circuit TV systems are based off of analog technology, so it generally tends to be a wire, often a BNC cable connecting them. 35:12.860 --> 35:19.900 However, nowadays, that's not strictly true as often, especially with the proliferation and inexpensiveness of IP cameras. 35:19.900 --> 35:41.900 But generally, they are hardwired because the, uh, the overhead, the network overhead is so high for these devices because generally they require, um, you know, a standard you can get anywhere from one frame a second to half a frame a second to up to 30 frames per second for, um, gosh, NTSC and I think PALS 29.7. 35:41.900 --> 35:47.900 But, um, normally they want to have, you know, gigabit fiber running between them. 35:47.900 --> 35:56.900 Sometimes there's wireless, although it's just not practical to have more than one, uh, camera running over wireless because it tends to trial over itself. 35:56.900 --> 36:06.900 But in terms of encryption, more often than not, you might find something along the lines of a proprietary implementation of standard MPEG codecs. 36:06.900 --> 36:16.900 So, if you were able to capture these packets and you were handy with, uh, network fuzzing, then you might be able to ascertain some valuable data out of it. 36:16.900 --> 36:21.900 And I know for a fact in black box testing that this does, can and does happen. 36:22.900 --> 36:25.900 Um, what else did he talk on? 36:25.900 --> 36:31.900 Now, most of the time and out of the box it says, all right, you really ought to have this on a closed network. 36:31.900 --> 36:34.900 Now, how often that actually happens is kind of hard to say. 36:34.900 --> 36:40.900 And every now and then you'll find somebody that just did an RTFM and they will put it on a wide area network. 36:40.900 --> 36:45.900 Or in some cases, um, say you've got a hotel or casino, Acme Casino. 36:45.900 --> 36:49.900 They will have them on the same network that they'll put like their voice phones on. 36:49.900 --> 36:55.900 So if you have a suite in Acme Casino that has a voice over IP phone, like a Cisco 9790, 36:55.900 --> 37:03.900 you can plug your laptop into a pass report and gain trusted access, um, from a trusted MAC address inside their, their network. 37:03.900 --> 37:06.900 And so it is possible and does happen. 37:07.900 --> 37:08.900 Wow. 37:08.900 --> 37:09.900 There you go. 37:09.900 --> 37:10.900 I hope I didn't drop the docs there. 37:10.900 --> 37:17.900 Well, um, no, I think we dropped some good information and, uh, I don't think it's anything secret or proprietary there. 37:17.900 --> 37:22.900 I think it's known just, um, yeah, I think it's, I think it's very interesting. 37:22.900 --> 37:26.900 Well, one thing I've, one thing I've come across is that the people who design these systems, 37:26.900 --> 37:33.900 despite they're being used for physical security, are not thinking about side of the box in a security perspective. 37:33.900 --> 37:39.900 Their, their mindset is that since it's a quote unquote closed system, that they don't have to worry about security. 37:39.900 --> 37:47.900 And that's just, I, I just bang my fucking head against the wall trying to convince these people that if you're going to have security in the name of your product, 37:47.900 --> 37:52.900 then it damn well better be secure, you know, not just a, oh, well, it can't connect to the internet. 37:52.900 --> 37:54.900 So no one's going to have access to root this box. 37:54.900 --> 37:55.900 Yeah. 37:55.900 --> 37:56.900 Well. 37:56.900 --> 38:01.900 And then, you know, they could think it's like oceans 11 or not that technically far off. 38:01.900 --> 38:02.900 Right. 38:02.900 --> 38:13.900 I mean, you know, it, we, it, we've, it's been before the interweb, you know, it was common knowledge in the hacking community that, um, physical access is the best and easiest way. 38:13.900 --> 38:21.900 And that's still true to this day, even with the interweb, you get physical access to anything and you've got time and power and access all on your side. 38:21.900 --> 38:23.900 It's just a matter of time. 38:23.900 --> 38:24.900 Yep. 38:24.900 --> 38:25.900 So. 38:25.900 --> 38:30.900 I mean, an attacker has an infinite amount of time, patience, resources, whatever else. 38:30.900 --> 38:35.900 It's just folly to think that a firewall is going to solve all your problems. 38:35.900 --> 38:36.900 Right. 38:36.900 --> 38:42.900 Now, you know, the, the other thing is, you know, to answer the question, I think we've done that is, is it possible? 38:42.900 --> 38:47.900 Yeah, I guess it is, but am I really going to put that much time into something like that? 38:47.900 --> 38:52.900 Are you being like attacked by a herd of giraffes or what's going on there? 38:52.900 --> 38:54.900 Well, I'm doing, you know, you're fading in and out. 38:54.900 --> 38:57.900 I'm trying to find a spot where I can stand where I'm not going to lose you. 38:57.900 --> 38:58.900 Uh oh. 38:58.900 --> 38:59.900 Okay. 38:59.900 --> 39:03.900 Um, well, you know, it's a, it's one of those benefit cost type things. 39:03.900 --> 39:08.900 It's like, it's not worth my time to spend just to intercept a, a traffic light signal. 39:08.900 --> 39:16.900 You know, if there was something else, maybe, but you know, it's like, there's so many other things out there more interesting that, I mean, it's a neat to, to see, 39:16.900 --> 39:19.900 if you could do it, I guess, for the challenge of it. 39:19.900 --> 39:25.900 But, I don't know, the reward, the risk reward ratio for that one's a little skewed in my opinion. 39:25.900 --> 39:31.900 Well, what if you're going to rob a bank, you know, and you know that they have active video security camera systems? 39:31.900 --> 39:35.900 I mean, then it becomes very much worth your time if you're going forward with it. 39:35.900 --> 39:38.900 If you're going to be the guy in the van, you know, it's definitely worth your time. 39:38.900 --> 39:43.900 I don't think our listeners, or at least I sure as hell hope not, our listeners are robbing banks. 39:43.900 --> 39:44.900 I hope not. 39:44.900 --> 39:48.900 We're just, we're just tinkering and hoping that the, you know, wondering how the tech works, that's all. 39:48.900 --> 39:58.900 So, how somebody then applies that knowledge, that's completely out of our hands and hopefully they don't use it for the wrong reasons and then call themselves hackers about it. 39:58.900 --> 40:02.900 Well, if you do, then you heard about it on Attack of the Show and not on BinRev Radio. 40:02.900 --> 40:03.900 Exactly. 40:03.900 --> 40:05.900 You read about it on Dig. 40:05.900 --> 40:10.900 Next email, let's see, let's go ahead to Alpha Hacker, who says, 40:10.900 --> 40:12.900 Hello, Mr. Dog, I was listening to one of your episodes. 40:12.900 --> 40:16.900 You talked about some phone line you call in and can listen to past episodes of RFA, BinRev, etc. 40:16.900 --> 40:18.900 Of course, that's Bell's mind he's talking about. 40:18.900 --> 40:25.900 I was wondering if you can make something that you can call a number and it connects to the box and that box plays the stream from BinRev.com. 40:25.900 --> 40:29.900 So, for example, I could call a number on a bus and listen to the stream. 40:29.900 --> 40:32.900 For me, that would be international, but I got some free time international. 40:32.900 --> 40:34.900 I'm from Australia, by the way. 40:34.900 --> 40:35.900 G'day, mate! 40:35.900 --> 40:37.900 Would be really cool. 40:37.900 --> 40:39.900 Keep up the good work. 40:39.900 --> 40:40.900 Hmm. 40:40.900 --> 40:42.900 I guess that's certainly possible. 40:42.900 --> 40:44.900 I don't think that'd be difficult at all. 40:44.900 --> 40:50.900 Stream it to a box that also has asterisks on it and can play the delayed stream. 40:50.900 --> 40:52.900 I don't think there'd be anything to that at all. 40:52.900 --> 40:54.900 You could probably tell that for sure, right? 40:54.900 --> 40:57.900 Yeah, I mean, what are you talking about? 40:57.900 --> 41:00.900 Basically just an asterisk box that relays some MP3 streams? 41:00.900 --> 41:03.900 I mean, is that different than what Bell's mind does currently? 41:03.900 --> 41:06.900 Well, Bell's mind plays the old MP3 archived files. 41:06.900 --> 41:08.900 I don't know that we've ever... 41:08.900 --> 41:10.900 It seems like we did try that at one point. 41:10.900 --> 41:14.900 We were streaming the live stream and you could dial it and listen to it live. 41:14.900 --> 41:17.900 I mean, it's just another input, right? 41:17.900 --> 41:27.900 Whether it's playing MP3 locally using ISAs or whatever and feeding into it, it's still just another input, data input. 41:27.900 --> 41:28.900 I would think so. 41:28.900 --> 41:29.900 I mean... 41:29.900 --> 41:30.900 Yeah, I'm not... 41:30.900 --> 41:34.900 I don't know of any particular technical challenges that would not allow it. 41:34.900 --> 41:35.900 I don't know. 41:35.900 --> 41:36.900 You just have to do it. 41:36.900 --> 41:37.900 Yeah, I don't think there's anything either. 41:37.900 --> 41:39.900 I think that's absolutely a possibility. 41:39.900 --> 41:42.900 So, we might have to look into that. 41:42.900 --> 41:43.900 Well, wait, no, actually, hold on. 41:43.900 --> 41:44.900 Hold on. 41:44.900 --> 41:45.900 I just realized how stupid we are. 41:45.900 --> 41:50.900 Actually, I know that to be a fact because, duh, that's exactly what we did with Freak Factor, wasn't it? 41:50.900 --> 41:54.900 That's exactly what we did with Freak Factor. 41:54.900 --> 42:01.900 Freak Factor, you would dial in and you'd be listening to the live stream while you were on hold when you got put in the hold channels. 42:01.900 --> 42:07.900 Even on, I think, when Strom and Ratchet were doing BinRev Radio on season three, was it? 42:07.900 --> 42:14.900 They had people on hold and the people on hold were listening to the stream until they were joined in to ask their question live. 42:14.900 --> 42:16.900 That's why they're doing live shows. 42:16.900 --> 42:21.900 So, yeah, I'm positive that we have done that, that that is technically possible. 42:21.900 --> 42:27.900 And since the streams are, you know, public access, there's no reason that he couldn't set up an asterisk box. 42:27.900 --> 42:33.900 He or she couldn't set up an asterisk box on their own with a local number so that it wouldn't necessarily be international. 42:33.900 --> 42:34.900 Yeah, actually, that's a good point, too. 42:34.900 --> 42:36.900 Then you wouldn't have to eat up international minutes. 42:36.900 --> 42:38.900 Very good point. 42:38.900 --> 42:40.900 Yep, good stuff. 42:40.900 --> 42:42.900 Okay, so let's see. 42:42.900 --> 42:47.900 Last email this week, before we go into our DEF CON wrap-up, is from Victor. 42:47.900 --> 42:48.900 Victor says, 42:48.900 --> 42:50.900 Yes, thank fuck, Dig. 42:50.900 --> 42:51.900 You are my hero. 42:51.900 --> 42:53.900 Keep up with the show. 42:53.900 --> 42:57.900 Yeah, well, about the whole fuck, Dig thing. 42:57.900 --> 43:01.900 Yeah, I saw that somebody went over there and said, 43:01.900 --> 43:06.900 Hacker trashes Dig on his radio show or something like that for last week's episode. 43:06.900 --> 43:14.900 All I really said was the same thing that I've said many times in the past that I don't think Dig is all that original of an idea. 43:14.900 --> 43:16.900 It's no better off. 43:16.900 --> 43:19.900 I mean, you know, I'm sorry if this pisses people off. 43:19.900 --> 43:27.900 I know there's a lot of Kevin Rose fanboys, but what he's doing is, to me, no different than what Jason Calacanis has done, another person I've spoken out against. 43:27.900 --> 43:33.900 They basically are getting other people to do their work for them, and they're capitalizing on it financially. 43:33.900 --> 43:46.900 I mean, you've got a bunch of users that are providing your content, and then you are selling advertising and making, in Calacanis' case, and I'm sure Rose's case at this point, millions of dollars on advertising on those sites. 43:46.900 --> 43:55.900 Not to mention, you know, how much did he end up selling, Calacanis ended up selling Weblogs Inc. to AOL, I think it was, and making a lot, several million on it. 43:55.900 --> 44:01.900 All you were doing was hiring slave labor, and that's nothing to brag about in my mind, you know? 44:01.900 --> 44:04.900 I don't see where it's really all that big of an accomplishment. 44:04.900 --> 44:08.900 I mean, I could post ads all over binrev.com all these years. 44:08.900 --> 44:10.900 Oh, we've got users that are posting great content. 44:10.900 --> 44:14.900 I don't feel right capitalizing on it, and I guess other people do. 44:14.900 --> 44:16.900 So, I mean, that's nothing new. 44:16.900 --> 44:19.900 I don't know why it just came up that somebody says I trashed him on the radio show. 44:19.900 --> 44:20.900 No, I just spoke honestly. 44:20.900 --> 44:21.900 That's my opinion. 44:21.900 --> 44:24.900 I'm sure he feels completely opposite of that. 44:24.900 --> 44:26.900 So, I don't know. 44:26.900 --> 44:30.900 But it was funny when they did put the thread over on Dig saying that I trashed him. 44:30.900 --> 44:33.900 In the reply to it, it's like, yeah, let's show them the power of Dig. 44:33.900 --> 44:36.900 Let's show them the Dig effect and take their server to the ground. 44:36.900 --> 44:37.900 Yeah. 44:37.900 --> 44:38.900 Fail! 44:38.900 --> 44:40.900 We're right here, guys. 44:40.900 --> 44:41.900 That's a fail. 44:41.900 --> 44:42.900 Still here. 44:42.900 --> 44:43.900 And anyway, hey, thanks for the traffic. 44:43.900 --> 44:44.900 I'd appreciate it. 44:44.900 --> 44:47.900 I really liked Dig when I first visited, and it was called Slashdot.org. 44:47.900 --> 44:48.900 Yeah, exactly. 44:48.900 --> 44:49.900 Exactly. 44:49.900 --> 44:52.900 So, hey, send as many hits as you want. 44:52.900 --> 44:56.900 I'll take them all, you know, because a lot of those people, I'm not saying all Dig users, 44:56.900 --> 45:01.900 but, damn it, sometimes reading those comments and stuff is just so, oh my God, I want to 45:01.900 --> 45:03.900 just punch people through the interweb. 45:03.900 --> 45:08.900 If there was some way that I could fit my fist in the tubes, oh my God, I swear to God, 45:08.900 --> 45:11.900 I would punch so many people. 45:11.900 --> 45:12.900 But, anyway. 45:12.900 --> 45:15.900 Fist over IP technology, I like it. 45:15.900 --> 45:16.900 Foip. 45:16.900 --> 45:17.900 Foip. 45:17.900 --> 45:18.900 Foip. 45:18.900 --> 45:19.900 Cool. 45:19.900 --> 45:21.900 That's fist over IP, not fisting over IP. 45:21.900 --> 45:24.900 Two totally different sites, but anyway. 45:24.900 --> 45:25.900 All right. 45:25.900 --> 45:26.900 Not lucrative. 45:26.900 --> 45:31.900 Let's go into our main topic with what little time we have left. 45:31.900 --> 45:36.900 We don't need to put a whole lot of time into this anyway, but kind of a DEFCON 15 wrap-up 45:36.900 --> 45:40.900 since both Savant and I were there making sweet, sweet love down by the fire. 45:40.900 --> 45:41.900 Well, we didn't really need fire. 45:41.900 --> 45:46.900 It was like 108 degrees in Vegas for most of the week, so we didn't really need any fire. 45:46.900 --> 45:48.900 It was pretty much hot all the time anyway. 45:48.900 --> 45:50.900 Hot damn, all the time. 45:50.900 --> 45:55.900 I think the first thing, obviously, to talk about the big news, the big drama from DEFCON 45:55.900 --> 45:57.900 was the whole Dateline incident. 45:57.900 --> 46:01.900 So, why don't you start off and talk about that since I've been running my mouth for a 46:01.900 --> 46:02.900 while. 46:02.900 --> 46:03.900 Okay. 46:03.900 --> 46:06.900 Well, the gist of that was this Dateline NBC New York reporter. 46:06.900 --> 46:08.900 I believe her first name is Michelle. 46:08.900 --> 46:10.900 Michelle Madigan, her name was. 46:10.900 --> 46:16.900 She allegedly had refused press credentials multiple times from Dark Tangent and the rest of 46:16.900 --> 46:23.900 the DEFCON people and decided instead to carry a hidden camera into the event and videotape 46:23.900 --> 46:30.900 hackers and try to get them to admit or to demonstrate on film, willingly breaking the law. 46:30.900 --> 46:36.900 And it's just a huge, huge violation of not just privacy and everything else, but of DEFCON 46:36.900 --> 46:43.900 policy that states that you cannot film or photograph anyone without their express permission. 46:43.900 --> 46:48.900 And so, she ended up getting corralled into one of the big events for what was supposed 46:48.900 --> 46:50.900 to be a Spot the Fed contest. 46:50.900 --> 46:51.900 DEFCON tradition. 46:51.900 --> 46:55.900 And she got tangents on stage and said, all right, well, we're going to try something 46:55.900 --> 46:56.900 a little different. 46:56.900 --> 46:59.900 We're going to call this Spot the Undercover Dateline Reporter. 46:59.900 --> 47:04.900 And he went into a short tangent about how she, you know, violated the rules and denied 47:04.900 --> 47:05.900 the credentials. 47:05.900 --> 47:07.900 And then he asked the audience, what do you think we should do? 47:07.900 --> 47:08.900 Do you think we should let her go? 47:08.900 --> 47:13.900 And there was no, no, hell no, for fair type of responses. 47:13.900 --> 47:17.900 Or do you think we should ask her to leave until she gets her press credentials? 47:17.900 --> 47:21.900 And so, of course, the audience, you know, uprised against her. 47:21.900 --> 47:26.900 And she kind of outed herself and stood up and ran from the auditorium and ran all the 47:26.900 --> 47:30.900 way out to the parking lot, you know, followed by a mob of people. 47:30.900 --> 47:34.900 And there's, you know, people videotaping it and, you know, calling her names and taunting 47:34.900 --> 47:35.900 her. 47:35.900 --> 47:36.900 Like, catch a predator? 47:36.900 --> 47:37.900 And comments like that. 47:37.900 --> 47:38.900 Right. 47:38.900 --> 47:39.900 All the way to her car. 47:39.900 --> 47:43.900 And she freaked out as she was leaving the parking lot and ended up making a few wrong 47:43.900 --> 47:47.900 turns, delaying her fast getaway even further. 47:47.900 --> 47:49.900 Much to the light of onlookers. 47:49.900 --> 47:50.900 Yeah. 47:50.900 --> 47:55.900 And, you know, like, luckily I, luckily I saw this later. 47:55.900 --> 47:58.900 Um, I, well, okay. 47:58.900 --> 48:00.900 See, I didn't actually see this happen. 48:00.900 --> 48:01.900 I wasn't in the talk. 48:01.900 --> 48:03.900 So, I'm not sure. 48:03.900 --> 48:04.900 Whoa, there it goes right there. 48:04.900 --> 48:09.900 I'm trying to tiny URL the link to this right now so our listeners who have not seen 48:09.900 --> 48:10.900 it can actually see the video. 48:10.900 --> 48:17.900 Um, but I wasn't actually there in the presentation when it happened, but I heard about it and 48:17.900 --> 48:21.900 my first concern was, and I'll let, here's the tiny URL. 48:21.900 --> 48:29.900 It's three nine V as in Victor, another V as in Victor, D F. 48:29.900 --> 48:34.900 So, if you want to go to tiny URL three nine V V D F, you can see the video. 48:34.900 --> 48:36.900 It's about six, seven minutes long, I think. 48:36.900 --> 48:38.900 I hope I got the right one. 48:38.900 --> 48:45.900 Um, and my concern when I heard the story before I'd seen the footage was, it's still 48:45.900 --> 48:51.900 going to look bad for hackers because I'm with you all the way up to the point of, um, 48:51.900 --> 48:56.900 obviously she had a, I know in the video at the beginning, dark engine even said, you 48:56.900 --> 49:02.900 still go out to the front desk right now and get a press pass so that you can be identified 49:02.900 --> 49:03.900 and you can stay. 49:03.900 --> 49:06.900 You know, he wasn't totally kicking her out or anything. 49:06.900 --> 49:08.900 He was just saying you can't really spy on people. 49:08.900 --> 49:09.900 That's not right. 49:09.900 --> 49:15.900 My problem and my concern, I should say, before I saw the footage was that I had heard that 49:15.900 --> 49:19.900 she was chased down the parking lot exactly like you described and people were taunting 49:19.900 --> 49:20.900 and yelling at her. 49:20.900 --> 49:21.900 Well, guess what? 49:21.900 --> 49:24.900 If she's got a camera and even if she didn't, other people obviously recorded it. 49:24.900 --> 49:28.900 My concern was, now you've crossed a different line. 49:28.900 --> 49:29.900 Call her out. 49:29.900 --> 49:31.900 Tell her she has to leave if she doesn't get a press pass. 49:31.900 --> 49:32.900 That's all well and good. 49:32.900 --> 49:37.900 But as soon as she leaves, you know, the building and is heading to her car, personally, that's 49:37.900 --> 49:39.900 when it stops for me. 49:39.900 --> 49:43.900 It's crossing kind of a different line into, I'm not going to say it was harassment. 49:43.900 --> 49:48.900 She was on the property, still on the premises in the parking lot and all that, filming her 49:48.900 --> 49:50.900 all the way and taunting her. 49:50.900 --> 49:51.900 I don't know. 49:51.900 --> 49:56.900 For me, that's not a real positive thing to do and that footage could end up still turning 49:56.900 --> 50:00.900 around and being like, you know, they can still turn that later on and say, we sent 50:00.900 --> 50:04.900 somebody to a hacker conference and she ended up being harassed and tormented by the evil 50:04.900 --> 50:05.900 Haxors. 50:05.900 --> 50:11.900 So I don't know that we did a whole lot of good by chasing her out to the car. 50:11.900 --> 50:16.900 Now, when I did finally see the footage, it wasn't as bad as it could have been and as 50:16.900 --> 50:18.900 bad as I thought it might have been. 50:18.900 --> 50:20.900 They crossed, they were very close. 50:20.900 --> 50:24.900 The only thing I didn't particularly like, and this is just my personal feelings, I know 50:24.900 --> 50:29.900 people won't agree, but I didn't like that some people were cursing at her. 50:29.900 --> 50:34.900 If there wasn't have been the foul language, to me that kind of crossed a different line 50:34.900 --> 50:40.900 personally, but the taunts of, ha ha, you're not a very good undercover reporter, or to 50:40.900 --> 50:46.900 catch a dateline scammer or undercover whatever, that part I was kind of fine with because 50:46.900 --> 50:49.900 she brought that on herself, morally speaking. 50:49.900 --> 50:53.900 So, obviously everybody's morals are a little different and it's definitely not as bad as 50:53.900 --> 50:55.900 I had worried that it might be. 50:55.900 --> 51:00.900 So, it kind of worked out, but I just wish that, I wish that when they called her out 51:00.900 --> 51:03.900 they would have just kind of chased her to the door, not chased her, but, you know, taunted 51:03.900 --> 51:04.900 her to the door. 51:04.900 --> 51:09.900 But, on that video, they're filming her, you can see her license plate clearly. 51:09.900 --> 51:13.900 I don't know if it was a rental or her own, but that opens up a lot of things. 51:13.900 --> 51:17.900 Did I also hear, I don't know if you can confirm this, but did I also hear she, I don't 51:17.900 --> 51:23.900 know if she chose to or had to because of harassment to take down her MySpace and something 51:23.900 --> 51:24.900 else, some pages. 51:24.900 --> 51:26.900 Her LinkedIn profile. 51:26.900 --> 51:27.900 And stuff like that. 51:27.900 --> 51:31.900 Was that because, I mean, I hope people weren't messing with her after it was all over and 51:31.900 --> 51:32.900 done with. 51:32.900 --> 51:36.900 I mean, she had been, she'd already got served, is that the saying? 51:36.900 --> 51:40.900 She'd already been, you know, kind of given her humiliation. 51:40.900 --> 51:44.900 I hope people weren't still going after her after it was all over with. 51:44.900 --> 51:49.900 Well, I'm sure she did it herself in an effort to kind of try and stuff the genie back in 51:49.900 --> 51:50.900 the bottle. 51:50.900 --> 51:51.900 Well. 51:51.900 --> 51:55.900 You know, in regards to what you're saying about portraying us with a negative light, 51:55.900 --> 51:59.900 even the unedited footage taken by attendees at DEF CON that was posted on YouTube, if you 51:59.900 --> 52:03.900 read the comments, there's all sorts of viewer backlash, you know, saying, okay, well, that's 52:03.900 --> 52:07.900 what happens when a girl tries to go to a conference, all the nerds scare her off. 52:07.900 --> 52:13.900 You know, I mean, there's already backlash and whether or not the NBC decides to spin 52:13.900 --> 52:17.900 that and make it look even worse will sort of only augment that perception. 52:17.900 --> 52:22.900 We really didn't do ourselves any favors, but it's still damn funny. 52:22.900 --> 52:23.900 No, it definitely is. 52:23.900 --> 52:24.900 Don't get me wrong. 52:24.900 --> 52:26.900 I don't have a whole lot of pity for her. 52:26.900 --> 52:32.900 I just, you know, an opportunity for them to just spin against hackers and OMG their 52:32.900 --> 52:34.900 evil hack source kind of stuff. 52:34.900 --> 52:39.900 So it's, it's, it's unfortunate, but even, um, actually I stayed in DEF CON for like nine 52:39.900 --> 52:44.900 total days because I actually went with my father who has not been to DEF CON a while. 52:44.900 --> 52:46.900 So we went on a vacation. 52:46.900 --> 52:52.900 So, um, I showed him the footage and he is, uh, people who have listened for a long time 52:52.900 --> 52:55.900 probably have heard stories that my father is not the most computer literate person. 52:55.900 --> 52:58.900 He doesn't really know or get hacking. 52:58.900 --> 52:59.900 He's learns quite a bit. 52:59.900 --> 53:04.900 He's learned a little bit more, but my dad actually came away from DEF CON. 53:04.900 --> 53:05.900 He didn't actually attend. 53:05.900 --> 53:08.900 Um, I took him down and walked around, let him see the place. 53:08.900 --> 53:13.900 Um, he definitely was not into the, some of the, oh, what's the polite word? 53:13.900 --> 53:19.900 Some of the interesting characters and hairdos and tattoos and things like that definitely 53:19.900 --> 53:24.900 wasn't his speed, but I showed him the footage and you know, he saw what had happened and 53:24.900 --> 53:25.900 everything. 53:25.900 --> 53:27.900 And he said as well, he says she got what she deserved. 53:27.900 --> 53:28.900 That's what she gets. 53:28.900 --> 53:32.900 So my dad's pretty conservative against that kind of stuff. 53:32.900 --> 53:37.900 And even he thought she had it coming for lack of a better word. 53:37.900 --> 53:43.900 And also, and this is probably nobody cares, but also I did bring my father and walked him 53:43.900 --> 53:48.900 through the conference, um, just to show and point out here's some of the stuff that's 53:48.900 --> 53:49.900 going on. 53:49.900 --> 53:51.900 Here's where the war games, here's one of the speaking rooms. 53:51.900 --> 53:58.900 I did that, you know, 10 minute walkthrough and you know what caught, you know what impressed 53:58.900 --> 53:59.900 him more than anything there. 53:59.900 --> 54:04.900 And I don't know if anybody else listening even noticed this, but you know, my dad pretty 54:04.900 --> 54:10.900 much gets the stereotypical, whatever they show on Fox news type views on everything, 54:10.900 --> 54:11.900 which is evil hacksaws. 54:11.900 --> 54:14.900 And then I try to tell him, right. 54:14.900 --> 54:17.900 And then I try to tell him otherwise, no, that's not what we're about. 54:17.900 --> 54:18.900 They make that stuff up. 54:18.900 --> 54:20.900 And he believes me to a certain extent. 54:20.900 --> 54:27.900 Well, when I took him in there, something spoke volumes that was in there to both him and 54:27.900 --> 54:31.900 to myself because I pointed them out to him is when we first walked in, as we walked 54:31.900 --> 54:36.900 through the pool was the American flag hanging up right there at the front entrance, walking 54:36.900 --> 54:38.900 through the glass doors. 54:38.900 --> 54:42.900 You know, this whole stereotype of hackers are evil and we're all against the government 54:42.900 --> 54:43.900 and all this kind of stuff. 54:43.900 --> 54:46.900 No, that's not exactly true and accurate. 54:46.900 --> 54:48.900 We're trying to fix the government. 54:48.900 --> 54:50.900 We're trying to point out things that are wrong. 54:50.900 --> 54:52.900 It doesn't mean we're not proud of this country. 54:52.900 --> 54:54.900 And I'm sorry I'm going off on a weird tangent. 54:54.900 --> 54:55.900 Damn it. 54:55.900 --> 54:59.900 I want to go off on this, but it's relevant to my interests. 54:59.900 --> 55:04.900 The other thing is back in the breakout area. 55:04.900 --> 55:05.900 Is that what they call it? 55:05.900 --> 55:06.900 The hangout room or whatever? 55:06.900 --> 55:09.900 Yeah, like the after show question and answer section. 55:09.900 --> 55:10.900 Right. 55:10.900 --> 55:11.900 The breakout area. 55:11.900 --> 55:12.900 Yep. 55:12.900 --> 55:16.900 Hanging up from one of the, hanging from one of the suites up there. 55:16.900 --> 55:18.900 The suites that are overlooking the area. 55:18.900 --> 55:19.900 The skybox. 55:19.900 --> 55:20.900 Yeah, the skybox. 55:20.900 --> 55:21.900 That's the word I'm looking for. 55:21.900 --> 55:25.900 Hanging from the skybox was also the old, old flag with the snake that says, 55:25.900 --> 55:26.900 don't tread on me. 55:26.900 --> 55:30.900 You know, hackers actually stand and believe in this stuff. 55:30.900 --> 55:31.900 We're about freedom. 55:31.900 --> 55:35.900 And I've, you know, I've explained this to my father and other people. 55:35.900 --> 55:39.900 But when he saw that himself, he actually got it. 55:39.900 --> 55:43.900 Like you could see that he really appreciated and understood that, wow, 55:43.900 --> 55:47.900 I didn't realize that they really, really felt this strongly about freedoms 55:47.900 --> 55:49.900 and about these sort of things. 55:49.900 --> 55:52.900 So even though he might not understand the methods or the ways, 55:52.900 --> 55:56.900 it was really a good experience to see, for him to see that. 55:56.900 --> 55:59.900 And to know a little bit better that, you know what, 55:59.900 --> 56:02.900 what they say on TV and what they make us out to be, 56:02.900 --> 56:04.900 it's just not right. 56:04.900 --> 56:06.900 It's just not right. 56:07.900 --> 56:09.900 So, I didn't mean to bring the show down with that, 56:09.900 --> 56:11.900 but it was kind of relevant. 56:11.900 --> 56:12.900 Yeah, it all appeared in my eyes. 56:12.900 --> 56:16.900 I know, you know, and I really, I really, really am glad that my father saw that. 56:16.900 --> 56:18.900 And I wish more people did. 56:18.900 --> 56:22.900 If anybody, I wish I would have taken my camera and gotten some footage of, 56:22.900 --> 56:26.900 that meant more to me than a lot of the other stuff that was going on in there. 56:26.900 --> 56:28.900 There was a lot of negative stuff going on here and there too, 56:28.900 --> 56:29.900 which we won't go into. 56:29.900 --> 56:33.900 But it's nice to see things like that, that people are not aware of. 56:33.900 --> 56:38.900 And even, I bet you out of the, probably what, 8,000 plus that attended, 56:38.900 --> 56:41.900 I bet you 90% or more didn't even notice those things. 56:41.900 --> 56:43.900 Didn't even see those flags. 56:43.900 --> 56:44.900 It meant nothing to them. 56:44.900 --> 56:46.900 No, I didn't until you mentioned it. 56:46.900 --> 56:50.900 Yeah, so, you know, that kind of stuff, to me, that means a lot. 56:50.900 --> 56:54.900 So, whoever, and I don't think those were put up by DEFCON staff. 56:54.900 --> 56:58.900 They were probably put up by other, by DEFCON attendees somewhere. 56:58.900 --> 57:00.900 I don't know that to be certain or whatever, 57:00.900 --> 57:03.900 but if you're listening and you know, please tell me. 57:03.900 --> 57:07.900 But regardless of the fact, whoever did hang those up, know that it was not lost. 57:07.900 --> 57:11.900 Know that I enjoyed that and I was very proud to see that. 57:11.900 --> 57:13.900 So, thank you to whoever did hang them up. 57:13.900 --> 57:16.900 Now, that's okay, that's fine, the big dateline drama. 57:16.900 --> 57:17.900 Okay, whatever else. 57:17.900 --> 57:21.900 Now, the reason we go to conferences, and how are you on time, by the way? 57:21.900 --> 57:22.900 You good? 57:22.900 --> 57:24.900 I'm running close, but I'm still with you. 57:24.900 --> 57:26.900 Okay, so just let me know if you have to bail here. 57:26.900 --> 57:31.900 But, obviously, the main thing, the main reason people go to conferences is for the talks. 57:31.900 --> 57:35.900 So, let's, yeah, let's single a few out. 57:35.900 --> 57:41.900 And we're going to have to only do a few because, A, I'll be honest, I did not attend but three or four talks the whole weekend. 57:41.900 --> 57:55.900 I spent most of my time connecting on a personal level, like singling out people that I, you know, definitely wanted to talk to about some specific things and meeting a lot of people from the forums and old friends of the show. 57:55.900 --> 58:03.900 So, I really only saw, or friends of the forums or friends of mine in general, and I only got to see like three or four talks the whole weekend. 58:03.900 --> 58:04.900 How about you? 58:04.900 --> 58:07.900 I think I saw two, maybe three. 58:07.900 --> 58:12.900 I know I saw Cisco Gate talk, and I know I saw Johnny Long's talk. 58:12.900 --> 58:13.900 Right. 58:13.900 --> 58:14.900 Which was great. 58:14.900 --> 58:16.900 I'm hesitant to think if I actually saw any of the other ones. 58:16.900 --> 58:17.900 Well, okay. 58:17.900 --> 58:20.900 Well, let's start with Johnny Long then because we both saw that one. 58:20.900 --> 58:24.900 First of all, Johnny's a great speaker. 58:24.900 --> 58:25.900 He really is good. 58:25.900 --> 58:27.900 He's comfortable in front of everybody. 58:27.900 --> 58:31.900 He puts in the effort to prepare his slides. 58:31.900 --> 58:32.900 He knows what they are. 58:32.900 --> 58:34.900 He doesn't have to read off of cards. 58:34.900 --> 58:37.900 He doesn't have to, like, he knows his material. 58:37.900 --> 58:39.900 So, it's not robotic. 58:39.900 --> 58:42.900 It's not reading exactly off the cards. 58:42.900 --> 58:44.900 He's certainly got notes like everybody else giving a talk. 58:44.900 --> 58:48.900 But he's very good and very natural at giving it because he's prepared his material long in advance. 58:48.900 --> 58:54.900 It's not something he did the night before, which is a pet peeve of mine at people at conferences. 58:54.900 --> 58:57.900 And actually, we'll refer to that in a second, too, so keep that in the back of your mind. 58:57.900 --> 58:58.900 All right. 58:58.900 --> 59:01.900 Secondly, he keeps it lighthearted. 59:01.900 --> 59:03.900 He's very, very funny. 59:03.900 --> 59:04.900 You know? 59:04.900 --> 59:05.900 Yeah. 59:05.900 --> 59:06.900 It's very easy. 59:06.900 --> 59:10.900 Even in a technical talk where people are here to hear technical topics, it's easy to get bored. 59:10.900 --> 59:16.900 And he definitely has a good mix of humor in with the actual content, which I think is great. 59:16.900 --> 59:20.900 So, definitely, I'd have to say that was the best talk that I saw all weekend. 59:20.900 --> 59:21.900 That's not saying much. 59:21.900 --> 59:23.900 I only saw three or four. 59:23.900 --> 59:30.900 And that's the thing is I think that most people that are, you know, fans of his talks would agree with you on those same reasons. 59:30.900 --> 59:42.900 He can make something completely non-technical or, you know, like he did a few times Hacking Hollywood, which was a hilarious look at movies' interpretations of hackers. 59:42.900 --> 59:50.900 And he went so as far as to make you believe why the movies got it right and the security industry actually got it wrong or the hackers were wrong. 59:50.900 --> 59:51.900 Right. 59:51.900 --> 01:00:02.900 And he, you know, would make a lot of references to the Cisco wine that the guy from Swordfish may have been drinking while he coded on his seven monitors and, you know, echoing 423 to see what's up. 01:00:02.900 --> 01:00:07.900 And the codes they use in hackers actually being optional HTML codes in some cases. 01:00:07.900 --> 01:00:15.900 Yeah, see, he just, he puts the time into making a good, takes pride in putting together a good presentation. 01:00:15.900 --> 01:00:21.900 And maybe I'm a little biased too because he mentioned my, some of my stuff in his talk, which was really nice to see. 01:00:21.900 --> 01:00:29.900 Giving credit, you know, giving credit to people and actually, you know, that goes a long way too, especially building relationships and stuff like that. 01:00:29.900 --> 01:00:36.900 So, um, he was one of the people that I had made sure I wanted to spend some time and talk to about a few specific projects and we did do that. 01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:38.900 So I'm looking forward to some of those things. 01:00:38.900 --> 01:00:42.900 Um, let's see, what other talks did I see? 01:00:42.900 --> 01:00:48.900 I saw, oh, actually, let me, I kind of alluded to this a second ago about not in preparation. 01:00:48.900 --> 01:00:55.900 I heard, I did not see this, I don't know if you did, but I heard there was a terrible talk where the person was completely unprepared. 01:00:55.900 --> 01:01:00.900 And I think it was hacking EVDO was supposed to be the topic. 01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:01.900 Mm-hmm. 01:01:01.900 --> 01:01:02.900 Did you hear about this? 01:01:02.900 --> 01:01:08.900 Um, I didn't hear by your specific reference, but I know that King Tuna from War Driving World gave that talk. 01:01:08.900 --> 01:01:14.900 Uh, I don't, I don't know who it is, I heard this second hand or something, but I guess it was, I don't know, hacking. 01:01:14.900 --> 01:01:15.900 Actually, it sounded interesting. 01:01:15.900 --> 01:01:18.900 That was one of the ones I did kind of want to see. 01:01:18.900 --> 01:01:23.900 Um, I guess, and I believe, I don't, I don't know this guy, so I don't mean to disrespect him. 01:01:23.900 --> 01:01:28.900 I just heard that, um, it was really bad because he, he did not prepare anything. 01:01:28.900 --> 01:01:33.900 That he sat down in his talk and was actually trying to figure it out as he went along. 01:01:33.900 --> 01:01:34.900 Oh. 01:01:34.900 --> 01:01:36.900 And that's just not the way to approach giving a talk. 01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:41.900 If that's accurate and if that's true, and forgive me, King, uh, King Tuna, is that what he was? 01:01:41.900 --> 01:01:42.900 No. 01:01:42.900 --> 01:01:49.900 I mean, incorrect, but I guess it didn't work what he was trying to demo, and they also said that it was misleading what the topic was. 01:01:49.900 --> 01:01:50.900 There was no really hacking EVDO. 01:01:50.900 --> 01:01:55.900 I guess the long and short of it was how to get your EVDO card working under Linux. 01:01:55.900 --> 01:01:57.900 So, I'm not sure. 01:01:57.900 --> 01:01:58.900 Really? 01:01:58.900 --> 01:02:03.900 Yeah, so I, again, I don't know, King Tuna, if you're listening, email me and correct me if I'm wrong there. 01:02:03.900 --> 01:02:10.900 But, um, yeah, I heard some people, I heard several different individual people say that that talk was really rough, 01:02:10.900 --> 01:02:13.900 but I guess the crowd gave him a pretty hard time. 01:02:13.900 --> 01:02:16.900 So, that didn't go over too well. 01:02:17.900 --> 01:02:25.900 Uh, one other talk, one other talk that I did see that was good was, uh, I forgot what the name of it, the title was, 01:02:25.900 --> 01:02:27.900 but it was basically Hacking Your Car. 01:02:27.900 --> 01:02:28.900 Mm-hmm. 01:02:28.900 --> 01:02:31.900 And, um, that one was really good. 01:02:31.900 --> 01:02:33.900 I thought that was probably the second best one that I saw. 01:02:33.900 --> 01:02:39.900 It was, um, uh, basically about ricing out your engine, but, uh, not so much from the mechanical aspect, 01:02:39.900 --> 01:02:47.900 like, um, Logos X and I have talked about in the show and done on Hack TV, but more the computerized systems that run them now. 01:02:47.900 --> 01:02:53.900 They control how much fuel gets sent to the engine and how much boost and, and things like that. 01:02:53.900 --> 01:02:58.900 Um, it has all the, basically, let's call it configuration for your engine and how it works. 01:02:58.900 --> 01:03:07.900 And there are tools and things out there now and websites that have databases of information about how that works. 01:03:07.900 --> 01:03:13.900 So, he went through a lot of that, gave some videos and demonstrations of it, which was really cool and very funny. 01:03:13.900 --> 01:03:21.900 Uh, him demonstrating some of that stuff on a quote-unquote closed course, which had other people driving on it in the background 01:03:21.900 --> 01:03:24.900 who apparently did not realize that it was a closed course. 01:03:24.900 --> 01:03:28.900 Yeah, that was a funny, that was funny when he, uh, when he said that. 01:03:28.900 --> 01:03:29.900 So, that was pretty good. 01:03:29.900 --> 01:03:31.900 So, I like that talk a lot. 01:03:31.900 --> 01:03:34.900 Um, what else you got? Anything? 01:03:34.900 --> 01:03:39.900 Yeah, I saw the, uh, the Cisco gate talk, which, uh, was, like, pretty much standing room only. 01:03:39.900 --> 01:03:40.900 And I thought that was really good. 01:03:40.900 --> 01:03:46.900 Uh, Dark Tangent, as a policy, tends to never talk at his own conferences because he feels it is, you know, a bit unfair. 01:03:46.900 --> 01:03:48.900 He needs to give himself that advantage. 01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:55.900 But, he wanted, he thought it was safe after two years now, after the whole Black Hat, uh, Cisco gate. 01:03:55.900 --> 01:03:56.900 Um, this one. 01:03:56.900 --> 01:03:59.900 And if you're not familiar with that, Mike Lin was a researcher at ISS at the time. 01:03:59.900 --> 01:04:08.900 We're going to give a talk on using, exploiting Cisco's iOS routers with their implementation of IPv6 to execute arbitrary code. 01:04:08.900 --> 01:04:12.900 And, uh, well, long story short, there was a huge fallout. 01:04:12.900 --> 01:04:19.900 ISS, you know, there was a pulse to ask them to pull the talk, but in so many words, the language they used in their communications 01:04:19.900 --> 01:04:23.900 to the Black Hat DEF CON staff was, they never said, please do this. 01:04:23.900 --> 01:04:26.900 They said, hey, is it possible? Is it possible? 01:04:26.900 --> 01:04:28.900 And Jeff's like, well, yeah, it's possible. 01:04:28.900 --> 01:04:31.900 And then, and they wouldn't hear anything for a while. 01:04:31.900 --> 01:04:36.900 But since they never straight up asked, you know, except for the very last minute, you know, 01:04:36.900 --> 01:04:41.900 24, 48 hours before the conference was supposed to go on, that's when they freaked out. 01:04:41.900 --> 01:04:43.900 Cisco flew out all their people that were at the conference. 01:04:43.900 --> 01:04:50.900 They all came out and they were higher temps off the street to shred, uh, Mike's section out of the, the Black Hat attendees booklet 01:04:50.900 --> 01:04:56.900 and to re-burn all of the CDs that were used, um, that were given out to conference attendees. 01:04:56.900 --> 01:05:01.900 And he was, he, I was surprised at how light he went on Cisco. 01:05:01.900 --> 01:05:08.900 I mean, it's themed by the name Cisco gate and by all the backlash that it made them out to be, you know, a big, bad giant. 01:05:08.900 --> 01:05:18.900 And at the talk, I was really surprised to find out that he thought that it wasn't so much Cisco that was doing the griping as ISS. 01:05:18.900 --> 01:05:27.900 And it was funny because the way he built up the story, they're like, Mike decides to go ahead and he was supposed to give a talk on voice over IP. 01:05:27.900 --> 01:05:29.900 And the audience basically booed him. 01:05:29.900 --> 01:05:32.900 And he's like, all right, you guys want to hear the talk on the highest iOS? 01:05:32.900 --> 01:05:33.900 And everyone's like, yeah, yeah. 01:05:33.900 --> 01:05:40.900 So we called up ISS, quits his job on the spot, and then fires up the presentation, um, about iOS. 01:05:40.900 --> 01:05:45.900 And, you know, he had a few of the key ingredients edited out, so he wasn't dropping major docs. 01:05:45.900 --> 01:05:48.900 And this was on a software that had been patched 30 days prior. 01:05:48.900 --> 01:05:55.900 So it wasn't like this ground-shaking revolution so much as just, hey, this is really interesting. 01:05:55.900 --> 01:05:57.900 And it just, they lost face. 01:05:57.900 --> 01:06:00.900 ISS and Cisco lost a lot of face by the way they handled it. 01:06:00.900 --> 01:06:01.900 Right. 01:06:01.900 --> 01:06:03.900 So it was pretty, pretty entertaining. 01:06:03.900 --> 01:06:05.900 Yeah, and I remember when that happened. 01:06:05.900 --> 01:06:06.900 That was actually the last year. 01:06:06.900 --> 01:06:09.900 I think that was 13 that that happened at. 01:06:09.900 --> 01:06:13.900 The last one at, um, the last one at the Alexis Park Hotel. 01:06:13.900 --> 01:06:17.900 Um, and I remember talking to Mike at DEFCON 14 about it. 01:06:17.900 --> 01:06:19.900 You know, how it all shook out and all that kind of stuff. 01:06:19.900 --> 01:06:22.900 And he filled me in on a lot of that behind-the-scenes information as well. 01:06:22.900 --> 01:06:24.900 And we've talked about that on the show before. 01:06:24.900 --> 01:06:28.900 And we've tried to get Abaddon on the show before, but haven't worked out that timing either. 01:06:28.900 --> 01:06:35.900 And of course, with the nature of that, he wasn't able to do the show and talk about those topics subsequently thereafter either. 01:06:35.900 --> 01:06:42.900 So, um, yeah, that was, um, I did not go to that, but I kind of already knew that story is kind of one of the reasons I didn't bother going. 01:06:42.900 --> 01:06:48.900 So, um, I already gotten that information pretty much straight from the horse's mouth, I guess, for lack of a better word. 01:06:48.900 --> 01:06:50.900 Uh, let's see. 01:06:50.900 --> 01:06:58.900 I also saw, um, of course, when I go to these, I make sure that my friends, when they're, when my friends are speaking, I'll make sure I go see their talks. 01:06:58.900 --> 01:07:14.900 So, you know, I stopped in on, on, um, uh, Radman, giving his underground, uh, media, hacker media in the underground, uh, how to do book publishing or publishing, uh, and selling items, books, self-publishing, stuff like that. 01:07:14.900 --> 01:07:18.900 So I went to see that. It was a panel that he was on and that was pretty good. 01:07:18.900 --> 01:07:20.900 Um, always support stuff that he does. 01:07:20.900 --> 01:07:27.900 And the guys over at acid and Nancy, um, treaters in the man that's, uh, always been a long time friend of ours. 01:07:27.900 --> 01:07:31.900 Uh, Jason Scott as well, definitely made sure to bump into him while he was there. 01:07:31.900 --> 01:07:36.900 Um, any other talks that we should mention before we kind of start wrapping up here? 01:07:36.900 --> 01:07:40.900 Um, no, not that I can think of. That's pretty much all I saw. 01:07:40.900 --> 01:07:43.900 Um, we had our BINREV meeting, our BINREV get-together. 01:07:43.900 --> 01:07:44.900 Oh, yeah. 01:07:44.900 --> 01:07:45.900 That was really good. 01:07:45.900 --> 01:07:46.900 Yeah, that was a lot of fun. 01:07:46.900 --> 01:07:49.900 We had probably, like I said, 30 to 40 people at that. 01:07:49.900 --> 01:07:53.900 I gave, uh, a presentation there for everybody, which was kind of fun. 01:07:53.900 --> 01:08:02.900 I had, uh, a longer, like an hour-long presentation that I was submitted for DEF CON and probably going to submit for HOPE upcoming. 01:08:02.900 --> 01:08:08.900 Um, so I decided instead of spending an hour presenting that and probably would have taken longer in that environment, 01:08:08.900 --> 01:08:15.900 uh, having to scream and repeat myself and everything, um, I went with a shorter presentation that I've given at my local conferences. 01:08:15.900 --> 01:08:20.900 And it was pretty fun because we were also able to get a live connection and demo it in front of everybody. 01:08:20.900 --> 01:08:21.900 So that was pretty fun. 01:08:21.900 --> 01:08:24.900 And, uh, yeah, we unveiled the t-shirts there. 01:08:24.900 --> 01:08:26.900 So a few people got their t-shirts there. 01:08:26.900 --> 01:08:28.900 First, first ones to get their shirts. 01:08:28.900 --> 01:08:33.900 So the next day I was kind of proud to see several people wearing their BINREV shirt. 01:08:33.900 --> 01:08:35.900 The orange one seemed to be very popular. 01:08:35.900 --> 01:08:39.900 Yeah, it's so easily distinguishable as well. 01:08:39.900 --> 01:08:40.900 Yeah, exactly. 01:08:40.900 --> 01:08:43.900 Well, you know, the whole thing, I want to get away from the all black shirt. 01:08:43.900 --> 01:08:46.900 Come, come, you know, the black shirt club. 01:08:46.900 --> 01:08:51.900 Kind of mixing some stuff up here, trying to change, you know, part of the binary revolution and whatnot. 01:08:51.900 --> 01:08:55.900 And, um, wow, I guess we could go into a lot of other detail. 01:08:55.900 --> 01:09:00.900 I mean, we ran into a bunch of cool people there and, um, probably save that for the shouts. 01:09:00.900 --> 01:09:05.900 The only other thing, and I don't know if I told you this story or not yet, but, um, 01:09:05.900 --> 01:09:09.900 or is there anything else before we close out DEF CON that you wanted to bring up? 01:09:09.900 --> 01:09:11.900 Uh, no, but I think that we pretty much covered it. 01:09:11.900 --> 01:09:16.900 Okay, well, after DEF CON, or actually I should say Sunday night, yeah, after DEF CON, 01:09:16.900 --> 01:09:22.900 um, Logos X and Natas and I were still in town, so we actually had bought tickets to go see Penn and Teller that night. 01:09:22.900 --> 01:09:28.900 So we went to see Penn and Teller over at the Rio, and, you know, just because we wanted to go hang out and see the show, right? 01:09:28.900 --> 01:09:36.900 Well, in their show, which, of course, Penn and Teller, if you don't know, are magicians slash comedians in their comedy. 01:09:36.900 --> 01:09:38.900 Uh, I think they're really funny. 01:09:38.900 --> 01:09:42.900 Um, but in their show, they did their standard stuff. 01:09:42.900 --> 01:09:48.900 Well, there's one part in the show where they do kind of a newspaper trick, I guess, and they hold up a newspaper, 01:09:48.900 --> 01:09:51.900 and they start ripping it apart as part of the trick. 01:09:51.900 --> 01:09:55.900 But as they're doing it, they're reading these pretend headlines. 01:09:55.900 --> 01:09:58.900 It's basically an excuse for them to do some comedy, make some jokes. 01:09:58.900 --> 01:10:01.900 So they're reading the paper as they tear it for the trick. 01:10:01.900 --> 01:10:05.900 They're like, oh, look at this, you know, Paris Hilton's in jail again, or, you know, whatever. 01:10:05.900 --> 01:10:08.900 Just an excuse to make a comedy, an on-topic joke. 01:10:08.900 --> 01:10:14.900 Well, as they were doing it, as they got towards the end, the very last thing that he said was, 01:10:14.900 --> 01:10:17.900 oh, hey, hey, Teller, take a look at this. 01:10:17.900 --> 01:10:22.900 This dumb bitch went to DEF CON and got chased off the premises. 01:10:22.900 --> 01:10:30.900 So I thought that was the coolest thing ever because I don't know if they're just track and know who's in town 01:10:30.900 --> 01:10:36.900 and therefore assume maybe there's a few attendees, or if they actually heard about that or knew about that 01:10:36.900 --> 01:10:39.900 because it had hit some small media outlets here and there. 01:10:39.900 --> 01:10:41.900 My mom said she'd seen it on TV. 01:10:41.900 --> 01:10:45.900 So I don't know if they really saw it because it was a news item or if they really followed that thing. 01:10:45.900 --> 01:10:47.900 Or it's just standard practice. 01:10:47.900 --> 01:10:50.900 If it would have been a shoe convention, they would have made a shoe convention joke. 01:10:50.900 --> 01:10:53.900 But either way, it worked out pretty good. 01:10:53.900 --> 01:11:01.900 And I would say I heard probably 20 or so people in the crowd, like, kind of scream or clap when it came to that part. 01:11:01.900 --> 01:11:07.900 And, of course, I had to scream, I hacked the planet at the top of my lungs, which was pretty fun. 01:11:07.900 --> 01:11:08.900 That's an awesome way to end it. 01:11:08.900 --> 01:11:10.900 Yeah, so that was pretty good. 01:11:10.900 --> 01:11:13.900 So, it sounds like you are about to go on your way. 01:11:13.900 --> 01:11:15.900 Yeah, I got to disappear. 01:11:15.900 --> 01:11:18.900 So, before you do, we are wrapping the show up right now. 01:11:18.900 --> 01:11:19.900 You got any shouts? 01:11:19.900 --> 01:11:21.900 I'll let you lead off with shouts. 01:11:21.900 --> 01:11:28.900 Yeah, yeah, I'd like to especially give shouts to Duel Parallel and his wife, whom I finally got to meet after hearing him on the show. 01:11:28.900 --> 01:11:29.900 Yes. 01:11:29.900 --> 01:11:30.900 That was really cool. 01:11:30.900 --> 01:11:32.900 Yes, and Sean Kennedy and Samarian. 01:11:32.900 --> 01:11:38.900 Definitely cool meeting them for the first time in person because I talked to Sim through email quite a bit with Rant Radio. 01:11:38.900 --> 01:11:43.900 So, it was cool to meet them in person and thank them for all they've done for us over the years. 01:11:46.900 --> 01:11:47.900 Let's see, who else? 01:11:47.900 --> 01:11:50.900 Well, I got to give a lot of shouts, if I may. 01:11:50.900 --> 01:11:55.900 I went specifically looking for some people to talk about some specific topics. 01:11:55.900 --> 01:12:03.900 So, I got to give shouts to Scott Moulton, Greg Conti, Jason Scott, to Radman again, Bill Pollack, Johnny Long. 01:12:03.900 --> 01:12:08.900 All gave me very good commitments to some upcoming projects that I'm hoping to work with all of them on. 01:12:08.900 --> 01:12:11.900 So, thank you very much for the support to them. 01:12:11.900 --> 01:12:12.900 Big shouts to them. 01:12:12.900 --> 01:12:19.900 To Natus, to Gene Eric, Fluidic Slave, stop by and chat with me about the show and a couple other things. 01:12:19.900 --> 01:12:24.900 So, I'm going to see if I can't fulfill a request he made to me if I can. 01:12:24.900 --> 01:12:27.900 To Eyeball, to Royal, to Logosex again. 01:12:27.900 --> 01:12:29.900 Everybody who showed up for the DEF CON meeting. 01:12:29.900 --> 01:12:31.900 Again, too many people to list everybody. 01:12:31.900 --> 01:12:33.900 And I tried to meet as many as I can. 01:12:33.900 --> 01:12:35.900 I always love meeting everybody. 01:12:35.900 --> 01:12:38.900 To Seal, welcome to DDP. 01:12:38.900 --> 01:12:43.900 So, I'm sure I'm missing people, so I apologize. 01:12:43.900 --> 01:12:46.900 But shouts to everybody that I met at DEF CON. 01:12:46.900 --> 01:12:50.900 Hosting for Binary Revolution Radio provided by Caro.net. 01:12:50.900 --> 01:12:53.900 If you need, and actually they have shared hosting plans up now. 01:12:53.900 --> 01:12:56.900 Whether you need dedicated hosting, shared hosting, check them out. 01:12:56.900 --> 01:12:59.900 They've been very good to us, so check them out. 01:12:59.900 --> 01:13:02.900 The site of the week is a site from Johnny Long. 01:13:02.900 --> 01:13:09.900 It's ihackcharities.org, which is a funny sounding URL, ihackcharities.org. 01:13:09.900 --> 01:13:14.900 It's not about hacking charities, but it's about hackers working to help out charities. 01:13:14.900 --> 01:13:19.900 So, it's a site of the week, and it's a good cause I want to get everybody involved with. 01:13:19.900 --> 01:13:22.900 And I'm going to try to really closely affiliate that with BINREV, 01:13:22.900 --> 01:13:26.900 and more precisely with BINREV meetings for activities for that. 01:13:26.900 --> 01:13:28.900 Email us for anything at all. 01:13:28.900 --> 01:13:29.900 Radio at BINREV.com. 01:13:29.900 --> 01:13:30.900 Any feedback. 01:13:30.900 --> 01:13:33.900 Our closing music tonight is from Freeze Pop. 01:13:33.900 --> 01:13:35.900 It's called Science Genius Girl. 01:13:35.900 --> 01:13:38.900 This is the WMBR remix, I believe. 01:13:38.900 --> 01:13:39.900 And that is going to do it. 01:13:39.900 --> 01:13:43.900 Savant, anything to add before we close out and let you go on about your business? 01:13:43.900 --> 01:13:44.900 No, let's do it. 01:13:44.900 --> 01:13:45.900 That's it. 01:13:45.900 --> 01:13:47.900 We will see everybody next episode. 01:13:47.900 --> 01:13:49.900 Same hack time. 01:13:49.900 --> 01:13:51.900 Same hack channel. 01:13:54.900 --> 01:13:56.900 Do not adjust your radios. 01:14:00.900 --> 01:14:02.900 Turn off your televisions. 01:14:06.900 --> 01:14:07.900 Put the kids to sleep. 01:14:13.900 --> 01:14:14.900 Now. 01:14:14.900 --> 01:14:16.900 Get home. 01:14:16.900 --> 01:14:17.900 Leave everyone again. 01:14:17.900 --> 01:14:18.900 See new facilities. 01:14:18.900 --> 01:14:19.900 And put the kids to sleep. 01:14:19.900 --> 01:14:20.900 It all depends. 01:14:20.900 --> 01:14:42.780 On my rocks 01:14:43.900 --> 01:15:00.540 I'm a science genius girl. I won the science fair. I wear a white lab coat. Be any strength in my hair. 01:15:00.540 --> 01:15:30.520 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. When I clone a human being, it will be a member of my band. 01:15:30.540 --> 01:16:00.520 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:16:00.540 --> 01:16:18.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. When I clone a human being, it will be a member of my band. 01:16:18.540 --> 01:16:25.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:16:25.540 --> 01:16:32.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:16:32.540 --> 01:16:39.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:16:39.540 --> 01:16:46.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:16:46.540 --> 01:16:53.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:16:53.540 --> 01:17:00.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:17:00.540 --> 01:17:07.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:17:07.540 --> 01:17:13.900 When Iwią, I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:17:14.540 --> 01:17:15.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:17:16.540 --> 01:17:19.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:17:19.540 --> 01:17:21.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:17:22.540 --> 01:17:25.540 When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. 01:17:25.540 --> 01:17:28.180 It is here and holds my hands. 01:17:29.440 --> 01:17:31.980 I have known a human being. 01:17:32.940 --> 01:17:36.240 It is now a member of my band. 01:17:39.420 --> 01:17:43.240 It is now a member of my band. 01:17:46.420 --> 01:17:50.320 It is now a member of my band. 01:17:55.540 --> 01:18:25.520 It is now a member of my band.