WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:09.460 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:09.760 --> 00:15.520 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:15.520 --> 00:20.780 and a fag pwned, in your digital stance getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in 00:20.780 --> 00:26.440 my six-fold, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable, 00:26.440 --> 00:31.740 on the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and 00:31.740 --> 00:37.240 I'm a hero, in a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast, you need some ISO, let me through 00:37.240 --> 00:42.680 my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught 00:42.680 --> 00:48.940 the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's 00:48.940 --> 00:53.460 all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling 00:53.460 --> 00:58.040 your phones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ leaves your fight on 00:58.040 --> 01:03.100 your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and 01:03.100 --> 01:09.460 crack, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial codes, source codes, ISOs, 01:10.120 --> 01:14.200 RANs, SIFs, SIFs, this is dedicated to the hackers and crack. 01:15.040 --> 01:20.540 Hello everybody and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode number 199, I am Stank Dog and 01:20.540 --> 01:26.960 you are listening to this on September 11th, 2007, six year anniversary of a very important 01:26.960 --> 01:33.300 date, but we have a packed show this week, so I'm not gonna waste too much time here up 01:33.300 --> 01:37.860 front at the top of the show, although it is pretty cool that we are closing in on 200 01:37.860 --> 01:43.600 episodes of the show, but to get to 200 we're gonna have to go through number 199, which I 01:43.600 --> 01:47.860 think is gonna be a great show, because this is gonna be a very cool topic, very interesting 01:47.860 --> 01:53.240 topic to me, because I don't know a whole lot about this, so I have had to go out and 01:53.240 --> 01:58.040 recruit someone who knew much more about this to myself, so I would like to welcome to the 01:58.040 --> 02:03.060 show our first time co-host, Tom Icom, Tom from New England, welcome to the show my friend. 02:03.580 --> 02:04.360 Hi, thank you. 02:04.880 --> 02:09.580 Tom, of course, in, wait a minute, not in the current issue of 2600, were you, you had an 02:09.580 --> 02:11.160 article in the previous issue, is that right? 02:11.680 --> 02:12.780 Yes, previous issue. 02:12.780 --> 02:18.700 And many, many previous issues before that, I think, um, you've been in there maybe more 02:18.700 --> 02:23.000 than I have, certainly earlier than I have, when was your first, first time you were in 02:23.000 --> 02:25.080 2600, 19... 02:25.080 --> 02:25.600 1987. 02:26.360 --> 02:29.460 87, which the magazine started in 84, so... 02:29.460 --> 02:33.980 So, Tom has been around for a long time as well, so this is, is this the old farts version 02:33.980 --> 02:35.980 of the show, or... 02:35.980 --> 02:37.520 This is definitely an old screen. 02:37.540 --> 02:39.080 When I was your age, sonny. 02:39.080 --> 02:44.320 We didn't have computers, we hacked Abacus, wait a minute, Abacai, what's the plural of 02:44.320 --> 02:44.960 Abacus? 02:47.480 --> 02:48.580 I don't know. 02:49.980 --> 02:53.860 Back in our day, the computers were made out of sticks and rocks. 02:55.760 --> 02:59.100 Yeah, and we used to animate things on the cave wall with fire. 03:00.860 --> 03:02.780 Let's see, let's do some quick housekeeping. 03:02.780 --> 03:08.780 Um, as I said kind of at the beginning, we are one episode away from episode number 200. 03:08.980 --> 03:14.300 200 is going to be the end of season four, the official last episode of season four of 03:14.300 --> 03:20.700 the show, and it will be the biggest special episode that we have ever done in the history 03:20.700 --> 03:21.120 of the show. 03:21.240 --> 03:22.640 Four years we've been doing this show. 03:22.700 --> 03:24.880 This will be the biggest in many ways. 03:24.980 --> 03:27.260 It'll be the longest episode that we've ever done. 03:27.260 --> 03:33.680 Um, we have a lot of surprises lined up, some special announcements, special guests, kind 03:33.680 --> 03:37.220 of a walk down memory lane, a bit of a clip show possibly. 03:37.600 --> 03:42.660 So it may take us like a month or more to put all of that together, but trust me when 03:42.660 --> 03:46.280 I tell you this, I don't really say this about the show in advance and pimp it out a lot, 03:46.380 --> 03:51.920 but this episode, number 200, is going to be one that you do not want to miss. 03:51.980 --> 03:53.800 You want to listen to this episode live. 03:53.800 --> 03:57.620 There will be some pretty interesting stuff going on. 03:58.160 --> 04:01.640 However, there's going to be some interesting stuff going on this episode of the show. 04:01.840 --> 04:06.240 So, um, unless you had anything to bring up in the housekeeping section there, Tom, any 04:06.240 --> 04:07.080 announcements of any kind? 04:07.940 --> 04:09.300 Uh, none right now, no. 04:09.520 --> 04:12.680 Okay, well then let's open up the email bag. 04:12.680 --> 04:35.060 And email this week. 04:35.900 --> 04:38.680 Uh, we have quite a bit of it since our last episode of the show. 04:38.680 --> 04:43.480 Some of it directly related to that episode, some to previous episodes, and some that are 04:43.480 --> 04:44.520 just random and bizarre. 04:45.100 --> 04:47.940 Uh, first email this week is from NextGen. 04:48.700 --> 04:51.460 NextGen says, Dear StankDog and Conspirator. 04:51.580 --> 04:52.480 Oh, there's an interesting one. 04:52.480 --> 04:55.480 I don't think I've ever had a, an email labeled to Conspirator. 04:55.560 --> 04:56.140 That would be you. 04:56.340 --> 04:57.140 You're the Conspirator. 04:58.540 --> 05:05.060 Um, NextGen says, I would like to make a suggestion in response to E2's email last week, 05:05.140 --> 05:05.460 198. 05:06.340 --> 05:08.240 Well, actually that was three weeks ago. 05:08.340 --> 05:13.080 But, uh, perhaps a forum where each episode had a dedicated topic so that questions and 05:13.080 --> 05:18.220 comments can be posted for the community without taking up valuable show time on topics discussed, 05:18.820 --> 05:23.140 on topics discussed what seems to be eons ago. 05:23.380 --> 05:27.620 I know this would be valuable for me as often as I either have follow-up questions or comments 05:27.620 --> 05:32.840 on the old episodes which weren't answered later, weren't answered in later episodes, I guess 05:32.840 --> 05:35.900 he means, but are not big enough to warrant their own topic. 05:36.040 --> 05:38.020 So, uh, this email's following up. 05:38.100 --> 05:42.380 Somebody had requested, uh, asked how do they give feedback on old episodes of the show. 05:42.460 --> 05:48.500 There's still people downloading old episodes of the show, even the first year of the show 05:48.500 --> 05:50.620 by the hundreds, still to this day. 05:50.620 --> 05:53.540 So, people are still listening to the old episodes of the show. 05:54.340 --> 06:00.020 Um, yeah, and I had said that basically just go into the hacker media section on the forums 06:00.020 --> 06:01.260 and just open up topics. 06:01.340 --> 06:02.020 There's nothing wrong. 06:02.100 --> 06:05.060 Or opening up in general hacking topics if it's just something. 06:05.120 --> 06:06.520 You don't have to relate it to the show. 06:06.600 --> 06:10.280 If it's just something that the show inspired you and got you thinking about, you can just 06:10.280 --> 06:11.060 go post it anyway. 06:11.140 --> 06:14.820 There's nothing wrong with bringing up old questions or old material because that's the 06:14.820 --> 06:18.160 only way that you're going to learn or follow up or ask questions on it. 06:18.260 --> 06:19.520 So, feel free to do that. 06:20.100 --> 06:24.060 Uh, since you brought it up, to go back to the email here, since you brought it up inadvertently, 06:24.140 --> 06:26.240 I would like to say that FOIP exists. 06:27.200 --> 06:31.500 Uh, however, unfortunately, is not a means of vigilante justice against people who speak 06:31.500 --> 06:36.760 without the proper knowledge of what they are saying, but instead stands for fax over 06:36.760 --> 06:38.100 internet protocol. 06:39.140 --> 06:43.980 FOIP allows machines to send faxes over IP, both hardware machines dedicated to faxing, and 06:43.980 --> 06:47.020 of course, asterisk, and other software solutions. 06:47.740 --> 06:53.960 So, despite what I had hoped for on the last episode, Fist over IP protocol is not going 06:53.960 --> 06:54.920 to be coming soon. 06:55.920 --> 06:59.380 Although, I'd rather have Fist over IP and then faxing over IP. 06:59.540 --> 07:01.960 Why do we even still have fax technology, honestly? 07:03.100 --> 07:05.020 I mean, we have email and attachments. 07:05.020 --> 07:07.360 What do we need faxes for, seriously? 07:08.600 --> 07:09.900 Can you give me a good reason? 07:09.900 --> 07:15.220 It's just one of those old legacy technology things, I suppose. 07:15.540 --> 07:19.960 I mean, is there any valid, I mean, I guess there's people that don't have internet access 07:19.960 --> 07:21.280 and therefore can't do email? 07:22.980 --> 07:24.540 I have heard of these things. 07:25.200 --> 07:26.480 And then there was an asteroid. 07:27.860 --> 07:34.280 I don't, yeah, well, I'm going to take FOIP in the name of Fist over IP so I can punch 07:34.280 --> 07:35.360 people through the interweb. 07:35.360 --> 07:38.020 That's an interesting concept. 07:38.220 --> 07:39.500 Yeah, exactly, exactly. 07:39.640 --> 07:41.280 I hereby claim FOIP as my own. 07:41.600 --> 07:44.760 So, fax over internet protocol, you're going to have to come up with something else. 07:45.680 --> 07:49.900 It's so much more valuable of a service, Fist over internet protocol. 07:50.000 --> 07:55.320 If I can punch people through the interweb for being complete dickholes, that would be 07:55.320 --> 07:57.040 so much more valuable than faxing. 07:57.080 --> 07:58.220 I really believe that. 07:58.620 --> 08:00.620 I think the interweb would be a much nicer place. 08:00.620 --> 08:03.620 So, would that be dickholes or dickhole fuckers? 08:03.920 --> 08:05.740 Dickhole fuckers completely. 08:06.320 --> 08:12.900 Well, then Fist over IP could be used in something completely different that, not what I envisioned. 08:13.420 --> 08:15.960 So, oh, that could be, yeah. 08:16.200 --> 08:17.680 Perhaps maybe we should not go there. 08:17.920 --> 08:19.340 Yeah, that one's bad. 08:19.480 --> 08:23.840 I think we might have to rethink FOIP now that you put it that way. 08:25.460 --> 08:27.460 Okay, let's see, let's go back to it. 08:27.480 --> 08:28.140 Fist over IP. 08:28.320 --> 08:29.960 I've heard of websites like this. 08:29.960 --> 08:31.920 Yeah, that goat see. 08:32.080 --> 08:32.620 Well, never mind. 08:32.680 --> 08:33.180 Stop, stop. 08:33.320 --> 08:34.640 Ah, unsee, unsee. 08:34.720 --> 08:36.080 I can't unsee that. 08:37.040 --> 08:39.060 We're going to need some unicorn chasers here. 08:40.780 --> 08:43.140 Okay, let's go back to NextGen's email. 08:43.280 --> 08:44.540 That'll help, hopefully. 08:45.220 --> 08:46.300 He goes on to say, 08:46.300 --> 08:50.580 I've never been to a con personally, but it has been a desire of mine for quite some time, 08:50.700 --> 08:54.100 and your description of the events at DEFCON have made this desire even stronger. 08:54.700 --> 08:58.200 Your description of seeing the two American flags with your father was especially touching. 08:58.200 --> 09:02.080 The phrase, don't tread on me, represents the hacker's mindset and ethic, 09:02.160 --> 09:08.220 as well as it represents the beliefs of the founding fathers in the American nation who believed in freedom and equality. 09:08.800 --> 09:13.520 In closing, what in your mind in the word con is the word con short for? 09:13.660 --> 09:15.200 Conference, convention, or otherwise? 09:15.200 --> 09:19.080 Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, endless saving time. 09:19.160 --> 09:20.700 I'm going to skip the rest of NextGen's email. 09:22.280 --> 09:23.920 So, yeah, what does con stand for? 09:24.020 --> 09:25.940 Conference, convention, does it matter? 09:26.020 --> 09:26.920 I don't know what it stands for. 09:28.160 --> 09:28.440 I don't know. 09:28.520 --> 09:34.180 I think, well, I mean, the sci-fi fan have always had cons. 09:34.180 --> 09:45.180 I guess it just kind of came over from them since there's a lot of, you know, crossover between the hacking community and the sci-fi fan community. 09:45.840 --> 09:49.620 So it's probably one of those things that was, you know, borrowed a long time ago. 09:50.100 --> 09:56.520 Well, I don't, I'm not sure if I know or if there really is a difference between conference and convention. 09:56.520 --> 10:04.640 A convention, isn't that more of like a bunch of booths and propaganda handed to people and free glowing yo-yos and crap like that? 10:04.940 --> 10:10.580 Isn't that what a convention is and a conference is more of presentations and information sharing? 10:10.740 --> 10:15.800 Maybe that's, so I would think, well, there's a little of both, so. 10:15.840 --> 10:16.060 Yeah. 10:17.060 --> 10:19.160 I mean, you've got to have swag, so. 10:19.380 --> 10:19.820 Exactly. 10:19.980 --> 10:23.440 You know what, luckily enough, they both begin with CON, so it's a moot point. 10:23.880 --> 10:24.240 Yeah. 10:24.240 --> 10:28.420 Okay, so let's see, what kind of email do we have? 10:28.480 --> 10:31.580 I want to try to read as quickly as I can so we can get to this main topic. 10:32.820 --> 10:36.260 Email number two comes from Alpha Hacker, who says, 10:36.340 --> 10:38.440 Hello, Mr. Dog, I was reading Dig today. 10:38.620 --> 10:40.820 Well, sorry about that, Alpha Hacker, can't help you there. 10:41.500 --> 10:46.980 When I came across this article, and he gives this long URL, I'm not going to repeat here, 10:47.520 --> 10:53.260 which says, Scott, I guess it's S-K-0-T, I guess it's Scott or Scote? 10:53.440 --> 10:53.800 Scott. 10:53.800 --> 10:54.400 Scoot. 10:54.900 --> 10:57.580 I'm going with Scott because it's easiest to pronounce. 10:57.820 --> 11:05.000 An ex-administrator of the Elite Torrent's BitTorrent Tracker is to have his internet connection forcibly monitored by the U.S. government. 11:05.480 --> 11:13.700 If that wasn't bad enough, the monitoring software is Windows-based, which means he is being forced to ditch Linux or face being barred from the internet. 11:13.700 --> 11:19.660 And I think this is a quote from somebody at Dig, I guess. 11:19.760 --> 11:21.800 I'm not, this email's kind of crunky here. 11:22.320 --> 11:23.120 Is that a word, crunky? 11:23.200 --> 11:24.220 It's kind of crunked up here. 11:24.720 --> 11:25.080 Crunky? 11:25.620 --> 11:26.100 Crunky? 11:26.100 --> 11:35.300 Yeah, it says, I think, okay, I guess, I think this is a user's response on Dig, who says, I think this is fucking bullshit. 11:35.300 --> 11:42.320 Whatever the fuck happened to privacy, also force him to use Windows as just fucking insane, dot, dot, dot. 11:42.320 --> 11:48.580 That's just so fucking retarded, dot, dot, dot. 11:48.640 --> 11:49.960 That's a retarded with a T. 11:50.540 --> 11:53.540 This just makes me so fucking angry, dot, dot, dot. 11:54.540 --> 11:55.340 What's a retard? 11:55.600 --> 11:58.000 Is that some form of, like, exotic pastry? 11:58.440 --> 12:03.720 I was wondering if maybe he was saying that he restarted and he just left off the S. 12:03.780 --> 12:05.280 I'm not really sure. 12:05.700 --> 12:08.440 Well, I mean, if you're using Windows, you're doing an awful lot of restarting. 12:08.560 --> 12:11.940 Speaking of pastry, there is Goatsy Cookies, but we won't go there. 12:12.780 --> 12:16.800 Do a Google image search for that if you want to really see how far people go. 12:17.640 --> 12:18.480 Yeah, so bullshit. 12:18.480 --> 12:24.060 I don't know if that's, like, a Freudian slip or a typo, like Bill Gates, Windows, I don't know. 12:24.060 --> 12:29.760 But, you know, I think, let's see. 12:30.040 --> 12:33.480 I'm not sure if I should turn you loose on this first or not. 12:35.620 --> 12:36.200 Let's see. 12:36.300 --> 12:40.000 All right, let me set the foundation and then let's see if you agree or disagree with me. 12:40.080 --> 12:45.400 Because, to me, you know, honestly, yeah, sure, it may suck to use Windows. 12:45.880 --> 12:48.200 I'm not a big anti-Windows guy. 12:48.340 --> 12:52.760 I mean, everything has its flaws and positives and negatives, whatever. 12:52.760 --> 12:54.580 So it kind of might suck to use Windows. 12:54.820 --> 13:01.260 But don't forget that this person pled guilty to two counts of copyright violation. 13:01.680 --> 13:05.120 Now, I don't know the back story to that, you know. 13:05.220 --> 13:06.700 I don't know all the details of it. 13:06.920 --> 13:11.060 And we could get into a whole debate, soapbox, about copyright discussion. 13:11.200 --> 13:14.320 But I think we've beaten that horse to death on the show many times. 13:14.320 --> 13:19.580 So in lieu of time, I just wanted to point out that he has pled guilty to a crime. 13:20.020 --> 13:22.880 So because of that, you do have a loss of privacy. 13:23.200 --> 13:24.240 It's just kind of innate. 13:24.360 --> 13:25.680 It goes with that, unfortunately. 13:26.380 --> 13:32.080 And when you're on probation and everything that that entails, that means you have to do what they tell you to do. 13:32.100 --> 13:35.740 And if that means you're using Windows and their shitty software, so be it. 13:35.740 --> 13:38.160 I mean, you got busted for piracy. 13:38.280 --> 13:44.940 This guy, if I remember correctly, released Star Wars Episode III like a week or two before it came out in the theaters. 13:45.840 --> 13:53.360 I mean, again, without going into the detail of right, wrong, and what, you know, justifies or piracy. 13:53.620 --> 13:58.780 And without going into all those details, you know, you play the game, you take your chances, and you got busted. 13:58.780 --> 14:00.900 So deal with the repercussions. 14:03.640 --> 14:04.600 How do you feel? 14:05.200 --> 14:06.760 Here's my view on it, okay? 14:06.900 --> 14:15.600 Now, as much as I do believe in the power of the penguin, and let's face it, I mean, when it comes to a lot of things, open source software is the future. 14:17.000 --> 14:27.660 And I would, you know, recommend anyone who's getting into computers to actually go the Linux or BSD route as opposed to going the Windows route, you know, from a prospect of learning about hacking. 14:28.780 --> 14:30.780 There's this little thing that's called the real world. 14:31.800 --> 14:39.980 And now I work in the electronics industry in real life, and, well, my workbox happens to be Windows XP. 14:40.920 --> 14:41.360 Why? 14:42.280 --> 14:46.020 Because all the software I need to use is Windows-based. 14:47.380 --> 14:51.740 So, I mean, you know, you use whatever works, and, well, it's not my first choice. 14:51.860 --> 14:52.900 Well, it's not my laptop. 14:53.100 --> 14:53.560 It works. 14:53.560 --> 15:01.220 So, you know, Windows, I mean, Windows, Linux, I mean, they both have different, you know, purposes. 15:01.740 --> 15:02.140 Right. 15:03.160 --> 15:10.540 Granted, the Linux software generally works a lot better than Windows, but that's a, you know, a whole other topic of discussion. 15:10.780 --> 15:11.140 Right. 15:11.140 --> 15:29.820 Now, I'm not exactly familiar with this case, but, you know, if the guy pled guilty to copyright violations in that terms of his, you know, probation, well, you know, like you said, you know, you do the deal and you take your chances, and, you know, that's basically it. 15:29.820 --> 15:41.280 I mean, they've, you know, there have been people, they've, you know, locked up for copyright violation in certain cases, so maybe he should consider himself, you know, lucky on that regard. 15:41.500 --> 15:45.880 But, you know, you do the crime and you take your chances is what it comes down to. 15:46.260 --> 15:46.620 Right. 15:47.400 --> 15:57.420 Yeah, and, you know, he, I'm sure, you know, that was a plea bargain, I'm sure he went through the process and came out to his pleading guilty and getting six months or whatever it was he got from it. 15:57.420 --> 16:03.640 Again, I briefly saw this in the news when it came up, but, you know, you pay the crime, you do the time. 16:04.820 --> 16:08.700 I mean, as far as, you know, the whole software piracy thing goes... 16:08.700 --> 16:15.400 Well, this was movie piracy, I think, to be honest, to be fair. It's a movie piracy, so I don't know if you differentiate that in your mind. Some people do. 16:15.400 --> 16:33.400 I mean, you know, as far as, you know, pirating, you know, movies or whatever, you know, perhaps, I mean, that's an entire whole new political thing, you know, involving the, you know, what's that, MPAA or RIAA. 16:34.280 --> 16:34.720 Right. 16:34.880 --> 16:39.040 Whatever that media group that, what's his name, Valenti, used to be a part of. 16:39.060 --> 16:40.060 Yeah, that's the MPAA. 16:40.060 --> 16:51.480 You know, I mean, I've taken a look at some of the, you know, trailers for some of the, you know, modern movies out there, and in my personal opinion, they're pretty much all trash, so. 16:52.640 --> 17:02.320 Yeah, and, you know, but does that, well, yeah, we could go into a whole other thing, and I guess the question people have to ask is, does that justify pirating the movie in your mind? 17:02.320 --> 17:10.360 And every individual person could have a different answer, so that's up to them, and this guy obviously thought it was worth it, and yeah, you play the game, you take your chances. 17:10.460 --> 17:11.080 He got busted. 17:11.440 --> 17:22.200 A lot of people certainly don't, but if you do get busted, you're going to pay the consequences, so being forced to use Windows, I don't know why that justifies a big indignant response on Dig. 17:22.200 --> 17:28.300 I mean, he's paid, you know, you have to serve your punishment. 17:29.240 --> 17:33.880 People see, see, this is a, this is a, I don't even think this is a hacking thing, to be honest with you. 17:33.900 --> 17:39.200 I think it's just a, I don't know if it's an American thing or just a human nature thing, the human race. 17:39.200 --> 17:54.380 Somehow, in the last, gosh, probably my lifetime, frankly, in the last 20 to 30 years, humans, people seem to think that they don't have to deal with the repercussions of their actions. 17:54.520 --> 17:59.520 They feel like they can get away with anything, and then come back like nothing ever happened. 17:59.680 --> 18:04.760 I mean, I've dealt with that in the forum several times, again, lately, from the same people that come back over and over again. 18:04.760 --> 18:12.740 And, you know, guess what? You break the rules, you break the law, you offend people, you treat people a certain way. 18:13.440 --> 18:17.920 You've got to realize that there's repercussions to every action out there, and you have to deal with them. 18:18.620 --> 18:24.720 And sometimes you can overcome them, sometimes you can, you know, work out compromise, work out something. 18:24.720 --> 18:29.200 But reality is what, you know, I don't know where I'm going with this. 18:29.260 --> 18:34.220 People just don't seem to realize that you have to answer for yourself at some point in time. 18:34.760 --> 18:44.840 I agree with you in that regard, but as far as the entire, you know, copyright media thing and how a lot of that, you know, stuff, 18:44.980 --> 18:54.040 especially with fair use has been, you know, changed around and now codified into federal law, I mean, that becomes a, you know, a legislative thing. 18:54.040 --> 19:06.660 And I guess if enough people feel, you know, strongly enough about it, well, maybe they should contact their legislatures and, you know, push it that way if they really feel strongly about it. 19:06.660 --> 19:11.860 But apparently not enough people feel strongly enough about it to actually go and do something about it. 19:12.120 --> 19:20.220 Towards that end, as much as, you know, despite the fact that, in my opinion, most actors out there are a bunch of talentless hacks, 19:20.220 --> 19:31.500 they still have a job to do and, you know, they're entitled to get paid for it as well as the movie producers are entitled to get paid, you know, for their efforts. 19:32.620 --> 19:39.600 So, I mean, they deserve compensation just as, you know, you and I deserve to be compensated for, you know, what we do for a living. 19:39.600 --> 19:47.000 Right, even though they get ridiculous amounts of compensation for what they do, but I guess that's, again, it's my opinion. 19:47.160 --> 19:54.520 Whether or not they're overpaid or not is an entire topic, you know, we could discuss that for, you know, for a whole episode. 19:54.720 --> 19:57.280 So, you and I are going to have to do, like, 20 shows, you know that, right? 19:57.680 --> 19:57.880 What? 19:58.100 --> 20:02.320 You and I are going to have to do, like, 20 shows to cover all the stuff that we want to talk about. 20:02.320 --> 20:14.260 But, I mean, I think it's any reasonable and rational person would, you know, would agree that they're at least entitled to, you know, be compensated for their, you know, for their work that they do. 20:14.940 --> 20:15.380 Right. 20:16.140 --> 20:21.860 Of course, they might be overpaid and I might not disagree with that, but... 20:21.860 --> 20:23.480 But, right, but that doesn't justify it. 20:23.480 --> 20:24.580 The laws are what they are. 20:24.680 --> 20:26.960 We have to live within them or work around them. 20:28.020 --> 20:30.800 So, yeah, I think we can probably back off of that. 20:30.800 --> 20:36.020 Yeah, that's, you know, that's more of a debate and opinion thing. 20:36.200 --> 20:39.260 So, I don't know that there's anything more we can say about it. 20:39.960 --> 20:49.780 I did want to throw out there, though, I mean, Decoder, you know, my good friend Decoder up there in New York, he had these same restrictions put on him two years ago. 20:50.280 --> 20:51.420 They did the same things. 20:51.520 --> 20:55.780 One of the first things he did when he got out was they put it on his probation. 20:55.920 --> 20:57.440 He had to take his laptop to the PO. 20:57.440 --> 21:00.720 So, he kept it to install that software or whatever. 21:00.820 --> 21:01.800 I don't know what the name of it is. 21:01.900 --> 21:03.700 I don't remember the name of it, I should say. 21:04.260 --> 21:06.200 And, you know, what, almost two years ago now? 21:06.400 --> 21:10.460 So, Decoder's been putting up with the same thing and nobody was all indignant about that. 21:10.640 --> 21:15.940 But, anyway, he actually understands and realizes, guess what, it's part of the punishment. 21:16.080 --> 21:16.860 He doesn't like it. 21:16.860 --> 21:21.220 But, he's not really good with computers anyway, so I didn't hurt him too awful much. 21:21.300 --> 21:22.800 But, he had to go through the same thing. 21:23.060 --> 21:34.520 And, I have to pass on a note to you, Tom, that Decoder told me specifically to tell you, I talked to him before we started recording, to thank you for the naked chicks and payphones section on the IIRG website. 21:34.520 --> 21:38.760 Well, I'm not responsible for that page. 21:38.920 --> 21:40.740 Well, you can pass that on to whoever. 21:40.860 --> 21:48.080 However, I will definitely pass that along to a mercenary who's, that's part of his page. 21:48.300 --> 21:52.220 And, I'm sure he would say, you know, you're welcome. 21:52.220 --> 21:53.880 Okay, all right, well. 21:53.880 --> 22:00.640 That's actually, you know, one of the things that makes the IIRG unique amongst hacker organizations. 22:02.700 --> 22:07.440 That and the fact that, you know, their website has real information on it. 22:09.580 --> 22:13.800 Yeah, there's, funny that we're coming out of dig.com and you say that. 22:14.000 --> 22:16.900 But, I won't go, I won't even go there. 22:17.260 --> 22:18.420 I already went there. 22:18.720 --> 22:20.940 All right, next email, let me try to save myself here. 22:20.940 --> 22:23.340 Next email comes from Current Resident. 22:24.140 --> 22:30.820 Current Resident says, hi, I've been listening to BinRev Radio Show for about two years and noticed that the file size of the show is about 14 megs. 22:31.260 --> 22:36.300 I'd like for you to describe the process of recording the radio show and compressing the file to that 14 meg size. 22:36.640 --> 22:39.340 Thanks for all the information you provide on the show. 22:40.200 --> 22:42.560 Okay, resident. 22:43.080 --> 22:48.240 That's actually just really too long to discuss and we have done it on multiple occasions. 22:48.240 --> 22:55.300 Believe it or not, you can go all the way back to episode number seven back in 2003, which sounds really old. 22:55.400 --> 22:58.200 Sounds like it's, you know, things have probably changed since then. 22:58.280 --> 22:58.760 But, no. 22:59.220 --> 23:02.880 That's actually still how we do the show and we go into a lot of the detail there. 23:02.880 --> 23:08.480 Talk about how we encode the show and file sizes and stuff and why we made some of the decisions we did. 23:08.740 --> 23:15.740 Frankly, you know, human speech is not that detailed and we could record it, excuse me, encode it, I should say, even smaller. 23:15.740 --> 23:23.580 Because the human ear can't hear extreme ranges and sound would sound, human voice would sound just as fine even in smaller compression. 23:23.800 --> 23:31.940 But, because I have the closing music on the show, then I'm trying to, you know, get some independent artists some listening time out there and I want to do it justice. 23:32.500 --> 23:39.100 I kind of keep a fairly high bit rate so that the opening and closing music have a little bit better quality. 23:39.100 --> 23:41.000 So, we could actually get it even smaller than that. 23:41.080 --> 23:52.600 I think most hour-long shows probably can be brought down to easily three or four meg, probably more, if you really wanted to squeeze some quality out of it. 23:52.880 --> 23:57.560 But, yeah, go back to episode seven and just listen to that and it's entirely. 23:58.100 --> 24:06.080 And even back to Radio Freak America, I couldn't tell you what episode offhand without looking, but even back on RFA, we did an episode about how we did that show. 24:06.080 --> 24:10.820 And that's pretty much the same thing we were doing with BinRev, although with a different format. 24:12.960 --> 24:15.180 Let's see, next email comes from Katie. 24:15.740 --> 24:22.580 Katie says, I've heard many things about me, but I've never been referred to as a beaten dead horse, LOL. 24:23.740 --> 24:31.120 I'm not sure what that refers to, but maybe that's my senility and talking in my old age. 24:31.800 --> 24:36.040 I've just started listening to BinRev and listening is all I'll probably ever do. 24:36.840 --> 24:38.740 Well, and write an email, which she obviously did. 24:39.420 --> 24:45.080 I don't have time for much else, nor the tolerance for the sexism I find in most hacker... 24:46.600 --> 24:47.940 Odor communities? 24:48.940 --> 24:51.940 Does that say odor communities? Am I misreading that? O-D-E-R. 24:52.520 --> 24:53.600 Okay, I'm not sure what that... 24:53.600 --> 24:54.860 She might have been referring to coder. 24:56.320 --> 24:58.080 Coder or older or... 24:58.080 --> 25:03.340 Okay, let's go with hacker coder communities, red boys clubs. 25:03.820 --> 25:13.820 When I listen to your show and that you do aim to keep it clean, yeah, kind of, but then we end up talking about dickhole fucking. 25:13.820 --> 25:16.120 So, it's kind of like, what are you going to do? 25:16.180 --> 25:21.820 It's like, sometimes I'll try, but you know what, I'm also not going to censor myself, so... 25:21.820 --> 25:27.520 I was told that, you know, Binary Revolution was the official home of dickhole fucking. 25:27.520 --> 25:33.420 It is the official home of dickhole fucking, I am sad to say. 25:34.060 --> 25:35.300 Oh, my goodness. 25:36.360 --> 25:39.600 That will be our claim to fame down through the years. 25:39.740 --> 25:41.880 That will be the only thing that sticks out of BinRev. 25:41.940 --> 25:43.960 You guys will never be able to live that down. 25:43.960 --> 25:45.640 I know, but it's so funny, though, right? 25:45.820 --> 25:46.780 It's so good. 25:47.380 --> 25:48.600 Oh, what a great story. 25:49.320 --> 25:50.700 Anyway, back to Katie's email. 25:50.820 --> 25:55.380 I doubt I'm your only female listener, just the only girl brave or stupid enough to speak up. 25:55.740 --> 25:57.440 But hi, and keep up your awesome show. 25:57.440 --> 26:04.280 Hey, any chance TWAT, that's Today with a Techie Radio, will ever change its shiver cover art? 26:04.960 --> 26:05.920 Take care. 26:07.000 --> 26:10.020 Well, Katie, funny that you mention TWAT Radio. 26:10.740 --> 26:13.260 I tend to agree with you on that unfortunate name. 26:13.260 --> 26:19.200 It was intended to be a joke off of TWIT Radio over with the Kevin Rose. 26:19.540 --> 26:23.580 And what is that guy from TWIT Radio? 26:25.720 --> 26:27.260 Oh, my gosh, I can't think of that. 26:27.320 --> 26:28.340 Leo Laporte, right? 26:29.300 --> 26:30.540 And those gang over there. 26:30.580 --> 26:32.780 So it was meant to be kind of a joke, a play off of them. 26:33.440 --> 26:37.360 But, yes, you mentioned some changing the cover art. 26:37.480 --> 26:41.760 Well, just keep watching and listening for news about that topic coming very soon. 26:41.760 --> 26:48.740 And, yes, actually, I think you might be the only female listener of the show, or at least one of a very small handful. 26:49.600 --> 26:51.200 If they're out there, they don't write in. 26:51.380 --> 26:52.660 So you're it. 26:52.780 --> 26:53.740 You're the representative. 26:54.540 --> 26:55.820 So, yeah. 26:55.820 --> 27:05.900 I put a poll to the listeners one time of if there are any female listeners out there that I'd love to hear them, you know, email and just let me know that they're out there and that there is some representation. 27:06.540 --> 27:08.760 And, yeah, I got nothing. 27:10.600 --> 27:11.680 So, I don't know. 27:11.760 --> 27:14.480 Do you want to – I'm kind of interested in that, though. 27:14.480 --> 27:17.480 I mean, I don't know that we've ever really talked about it in any detail. 27:17.660 --> 27:22.200 I think it's kind of interesting the lack of females in the community. 27:22.400 --> 27:25.420 And I'm sure – I know that you have some input on this. 27:25.480 --> 27:26.900 I know that you know some people. 27:27.180 --> 27:31.880 But, I mean, do you feel that females are any less welcome in the hacking scene? 27:32.000 --> 27:33.400 I hate that word, the hacking scene. 27:33.460 --> 27:35.600 Do you think they're any less welcome than anyone else? 27:35.600 --> 27:41.640 Do you think it's hard for women or females to get into the hacking circle, so to speak? 27:44.140 --> 27:55.020 I actually think that the difficulty – I know more than a few female hackers who are very, very good at what they do. 27:55.020 --> 28:19.360 And I think that the apparent difficulty of female hackers getting into the scene, so to speak, I think is just a generalized reflection of the perceived difficulty that women have getting into the tech field in general. 28:19.360 --> 28:30.160 I think it's a social thing, and it's not a good thing, and that's something that definitely has to be worked on. 28:31.840 --> 28:39.560 However, granted, you know, the hacking scene is, you know, predominantly male, and some of us are a little on the, how do I say, rough side. 28:40.740 --> 28:41.560 But – 28:41.560 --> 28:47.580 Well, and that's actually what I think is more the issue from what I've seen. 28:47.580 --> 28:51.740 I mean, I think it is – I know what you're saying. 28:51.860 --> 28:54.420 There's certainly – because this is outside of the hacking scene. 28:54.540 --> 28:59.000 There's a lower percentage of females in the IT and technical industry. 29:00.960 --> 29:05.460 Workers, from an employee standpoint, there are fewer females in IT than males anyway. 29:07.460 --> 29:14.960 The – I mean, it's – there is, you know, a lower percentage. 29:14.960 --> 29:22.560 And, again, that's probably something that, you know, we'll have to, you know, change along with, you know, society. 29:23.880 --> 29:32.380 Even in this day and age, there is a – you know, an inequality between, you know, men and women on several different levels. 29:32.380 --> 29:52.460 And I think that that problem goes back over millennia, you know, ever since, you know, using the, you know, the famous, you know, Judeo-Christian mythology, you know, back when, you know, Eve was made from, you know, one of Adam's ribs. 29:52.460 --> 29:59.700 Right. Well, if we really wanted to do a sociological study on it, then, yeah, we could open up a whole can of worms on that. 30:00.440 --> 30:05.160 Oh, we could open up a whole really big old, you know, chunky can of worms. 30:05.160 --> 30:09.100 Well, but I think more applied specifically to the hacking scene. 30:09.240 --> 30:16.000 I mean, what I think is more the problem is – well, let's use this episode, quite frankly. 30:16.280 --> 30:28.440 I don't think that your typical female who is a hacker or wants to be a hacker or is trying to find their place in the scene or find a community of peers, 30:28.440 --> 30:37.560 I probably can understand why they wouldn't find it interesting or fun to hear two guys talk about dickhole fucking on the radio. 30:39.100 --> 30:45.100 So, like, I mean, there's, like – hackers pretty much don't have boundaries by nature. 30:45.520 --> 30:48.820 We don't limit ourselves. We don't censor ourselves. We talk about things. 30:49.420 --> 30:57.480 You know, we use jokes and rude comments and nasty things and trick people into going to Goat Sea and stuff like that. 30:57.480 --> 31:05.160 We use memes and jokes and slang that are offensive to women and probably gays and Canadians and everything else. 31:05.400 --> 31:10.960 I mean, we're equal opportunity across what we – who we insult, I guess. 31:11.640 --> 31:18.400 But do you think – and this is just thinking out loud here – do you think that it's a matter of sensitivity? 31:18.700 --> 31:22.280 I mean, you have to have a kind of a thick skin to be in the hacking scene. 31:22.280 --> 31:30.440 Do you think that maybe by nature they just – they think maybe they're being treated differently or talked to differently when in actuality they're not? 31:30.540 --> 31:33.000 They just perceive it to be? I mean – 31:33.000 --> 31:34.980 That would bring up a good point. 31:35.220 --> 31:39.020 But, I mean, you talk about hackers having a thick skin. 31:40.100 --> 31:47.880 You should have been at a few of – a few IIRIG meetings we've had in the past. 31:47.880 --> 31:57.380 Well, I don't know. It can't be any worse than dickhole fucking and bat wings, which we've discussed on the show and who knows what else. 31:57.520 --> 32:03.560 I mean, hackers can go pretty much and look at anything on 4chan and not be – not even blank. 32:04.460 --> 32:07.480 But, you know, some people can't handle that. 32:07.560 --> 32:09.860 Maybe that's – maybe it's just the nature of men and women. 32:09.860 --> 32:14.280 I – you know what? I'm not a sociologist, so I really don't know. 32:14.360 --> 32:20.560 I do find it interesting and, well, if we had any female listeners who did have a pair – well, wait a minute. 32:20.620 --> 32:22.500 See, I can't even use a phrase like that. 32:23.180 --> 32:25.700 Damn it. See, there's the problem. I'm part of the problem. 32:25.820 --> 32:28.000 I'm trying to be part of the solution here, but I'm part of the problem. 32:28.340 --> 32:33.400 If we have a female listener, they're not even willing to email or write in or stand up or whatever. 32:33.400 --> 32:42.920 And we've had, you know, people in the forums – we've had girls, ladies come to the forum and, you know, been offended because people make crude jokes and comments and stuff like that. 32:42.940 --> 32:46.380 And they don't like it. They get offended by it, and I certainly understand it. 32:46.980 --> 32:52.980 But I would love to have someone come on and co-host with me, a female come on and co-host, and let's talk about it. 32:52.980 --> 32:56.840 And I'd like to hear the other side of it and let other people hear the other side of it. 32:57.000 --> 32:59.500 And, you know, I don't know if it'd make a big change. 32:59.500 --> 33:08.300 Hackers are pretty much set in their way and don't really care what people think, which is another, I don't know, trait that's common amongst hackers and something that I like about them. 33:08.840 --> 33:14.000 Do we need to tiptoe around somebody or sense – I don't know. 33:14.180 --> 33:17.480 I guess let's back off of that because, again, we can go into – 33:17.480 --> 33:31.100 I think there's a fine line that has to be walked between being sensitive and telling the purported, offended person to put on their big kid pants and get over it. 33:31.500 --> 33:34.960 Right, right. And there is a very fine line. 33:35.100 --> 33:39.820 And I guess – well, I don't guess. I know that I don't know where that line is. 33:39.820 --> 33:44.440 I guess I try, but, yeah, I just trip right across that line all the time, I'm sure. 33:45.220 --> 33:47.880 Probably about six or seven times so far this episode. 33:50.260 --> 33:52.400 Yeah, we're completely and totally incorrigible. 33:52.540 --> 33:55.880 Yeah, I fell across the line and I grabbed you and drug you down with me. 33:57.520 --> 33:58.400 Oh, boy. 33:58.620 --> 34:02.920 Well, let's continue to lower property value with our next email here from DeepGeek. 34:04.200 --> 34:05.000 DeepGeek says, 34:05.000 --> 34:11.480 I recently discovered BitTorrent. 34:12.040 --> 34:16.540 I downloaded several Linux Live CDs faster than a regular download from a server on the Internet. 34:17.720 --> 34:20.040 I think the Internet's like the interweb. 34:20.440 --> 34:22.620 I'm not sure, but I have to look that up after the show. 34:23.260 --> 34:28.300 And I thought, wouldn't it be great to get my favorite Internet – there it goes again – talk shows like this. 34:28.300 --> 34:36.680 Not only would it be fast if it became popular, but it would also save my favorite talk show host some money in the bandwidth department. 34:36.780 --> 34:37.620 Wow, we appreciate that. 34:38.220 --> 34:47.240 I managed to successfully upload a TWA tech at thepiratebay.org and am thrilled at the prospect of facilitating things for Geek Radio. 34:47.240 --> 34:54.520 So I thought I would try this for a while as my favorite shows, which are yours, Lug Radio, and TWA tech, came out. 34:54.800 --> 35:02.620 As I am attributing by referring to the original website and not editing, I figured this was all right under the terms of the Creative Commons license you all use. 35:03.080 --> 35:11.060 I wanted to ask, as it can be considered a, quote, derivative work, could I in the future, if this becomes popular, bundle shows in different ways? 35:11.060 --> 35:16.060 I would like to have, say, a Binary Revolution episodes 1 through 25 torrent out there. 35:16.760 --> 35:22.500 Also, just by having that great lead-out music you chose, having several of those in one torrent would be smashing. 35:22.980 --> 35:24.540 Could I have an okay smashing? 35:24.620 --> 35:26.420 Who says smashing in a sentence? 35:26.560 --> 35:28.400 Where the hell did that come from? 35:29.920 --> 35:31.960 I'm going to mix that one into my vocabulary. 35:32.220 --> 35:33.660 Wouldn't that be smashing, Tom? 35:34.640 --> 35:35.980 Oh, indubitably. 35:36.780 --> 35:38.860 Could I have an okay on this idea from you? 35:38.860 --> 35:42.420 Would you know who I would contact at twatech.org for similar permission? 35:43.240 --> 35:47.140 Well, Deep Geek, you are in luck because I can give you all the permission you need. 35:47.240 --> 35:51.240 You can do whatever you want with VRR and TWA tech radio. 35:52.100 --> 35:54.560 BinRev and TWA tech, both under Creative Commons. 35:54.820 --> 36:03.100 I did speak to Enigma, who runs TWA Tech, and we both agree that, you know, that's the reason we have Creative Commons license, 36:03.720 --> 36:05.080 is we give you permission. 36:05.080 --> 36:09.920 You can do anything along those lines on the show, distribute them however you want, that's fine. 36:10.300 --> 36:18.720 The only reason we have the limited restriction is the only thing we say is don't edit the show out and put your name in front of it and claim that's you. 36:18.960 --> 36:26.300 You know, don't steal credit and try to say this is the whoever show and start playing it as though it were your own. 36:26.300 --> 36:28.420 And the other thing is don't make money from them. 36:28.500 --> 36:29.740 We don't charge for the show. 36:29.880 --> 36:31.100 We make them all free to download. 36:31.300 --> 36:32.720 We want to keep that up. 36:33.000 --> 36:35.860 So don't collect them onto CDs and try to sell them and make money for them. 36:35.920 --> 36:36.400 We don't. 36:36.720 --> 36:37.320 Neither should you. 36:37.400 --> 36:41.760 So that's the only two things we ever really have if you want to call those restrictions. 36:41.940 --> 36:44.660 I call it simple, common, courtesy, and respect. 36:45.060 --> 36:47.260 But that's why we have Creative Commons license. 36:47.400 --> 36:50.760 So, yes, you have permission for BinRev and TWA Tech. 36:50.760 --> 36:54.940 I cannot speak for Lug Radio, but those guys over there are really great guys. 36:55.220 --> 36:59.200 I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with it as well, but you'll have to contact them over that. 36:59.280 --> 37:03.200 I can only speak for our two shows officially. 37:05.400 --> 37:05.880 Let's see. 37:05.960 --> 37:06.580 How much time? 37:06.660 --> 37:07.360 How are we doing on time? 37:07.420 --> 37:09.520 Okay, I'm going to try to burn through these last emails. 37:10.640 --> 37:11.180 Let's see. 37:11.280 --> 37:12.340 Next one is from Victor. 37:13.220 --> 37:14.640 And, of course, jump in here, Tom, if you have anything. 37:14.720 --> 37:16.200 I don't mean to talk over you. 37:16.220 --> 37:17.640 I'm just trying to go fast through these emails. 37:17.760 --> 37:19.240 So just jump in any time you want. 37:19.240 --> 37:21.880 Next email comes from Victor. 37:22.180 --> 37:23.880 Victor says, Hi, Stank. 37:24.460 --> 37:28.280 After the last email, I think I should explain why I feel that Dig sucks. 37:28.940 --> 37:36.320 So, apart that the idea was actually stolen from Slashdot, which Mr. Rose admits, Dig ended up being a crap website. 37:36.520 --> 37:38.100 And by saying crap, I mean crap. 37:38.720 --> 37:40.080 Wow, that clarifies things. 37:40.900 --> 37:44.260 Does he mean crap in a figurative sense or crap in a literal sense? 37:44.260 --> 37:47.140 I think he means crap is what I mean. 37:47.140 --> 37:49.220 When he says crap, I mean crap. 37:49.240 --> 37:50.240 Is what he's getting at. 37:50.280 --> 37:51.040 That it's crap. 37:51.160 --> 37:52.200 Like a crap website? 37:52.780 --> 37:53.460 It's crap. 37:54.960 --> 37:55.960 That's all I got. 37:57.700 --> 38:05.260 Right now, site is only useful to, quote, kill time while in the office, wasting time in front of a PC instead of doing actual work. 38:05.720 --> 38:08.100 What Dig is not is an actual news source. 38:08.100 --> 38:09.100 Well, of course not. 38:10.100 --> 38:14.580 Because there is so much crap overloaded on it, so you can't actually see the news itself. 38:15.200 --> 38:22.460 And differently from the Slashdot, the Slashdot, it has the shittiest overviews ever, like, quote, you must see this to believe it. 38:23.220 --> 38:27.500 Well, as a quick aside, let me tell you, that happens in our forums all the time. 38:28.020 --> 38:34.340 Myself and our moderating team go through more than most people realize and clean up headlines like, question for you. 38:34.500 --> 38:37.160 And then you have to open it to see what the question is. 38:37.600 --> 38:39.060 So we clean up a lot of that. 38:39.140 --> 38:40.180 I guess Dig does not. 38:40.360 --> 38:43.700 Well, I know Dig doesn't because I see exactly what he's talking about. 38:45.200 --> 38:46.360 Anyway, sorry, back to the email. 38:46.580 --> 38:51.860 And I could go on, but I do know how you like the long, but I do know how you like the long emails. 38:51.860 --> 38:57.120 All I can say is that diggers can do a flash mob where they're – wait a minute. 38:57.180 --> 38:57.840 What does that say? 38:59.400 --> 39:01.280 Where they're all fuck themselves. 39:03.020 --> 39:07.060 Diggers can do a flash mob where they're all fuck themselves. 39:08.460 --> 39:08.780 Okay. 39:11.040 --> 39:11.560 Okay. 39:12.500 --> 39:13.880 Also, regarding the – 39:13.880 --> 39:15.260 I thought that would be a porn site. 39:15.820 --> 39:17.440 It probably is. 39:17.440 --> 39:24.540 And you've got to be careful with diggers, so you've got to enunciate that D clearly or you could get into a whole other mess of trouble. 39:25.420 --> 39:32.580 Also, regarding the DEF CON show, I would like to ask you and might be your listeners, is there something like DEF CON in Europe? 39:32.920 --> 39:39.300 The only exhibition I know is CBIT, which I – actually, I think Nick 84 went to CBIT one year, if I'm not mistaken. 39:39.820 --> 39:42.840 But there should be something related to hacking security as well. 39:43.280 --> 39:44.640 Anyway, I'll repeat myself again. 39:44.740 --> 39:46.000 Keep up with the good suburb show. 39:46.060 --> 39:46.660 You guys rock. 39:46.660 --> 39:48.180 I will listen to a lot of podcasts. 39:48.500 --> 39:50.640 I do listen to a lot of podcasts while working. 39:51.120 --> 39:58.560 And I must say your show differs from everyone else, that you have something original and you do not talk half the time about something I already read on Slashdot. 39:58.960 --> 39:59.300 Peace. 40:00.180 --> 40:01.080 Well, thank you, Victor. 40:01.140 --> 40:06.620 We purposely try to avoid reading news from Slashdot and Digg and others because, guess what? 40:06.780 --> 40:09.260 We know our listeners can read, so we don't need to read them. 40:09.780 --> 40:13.240 Now, you may not like our opinions sometimes on the show, but that's – you know what? 40:13.240 --> 40:14.160 It's a whole different story. 40:14.160 --> 40:23.000 Anyway, so as far as the DEF CON equivalent in Europe, I know of – that is to say I've heard of – the Chaos Communication Camp. 40:23.960 --> 40:27.640 I've never been to it, but it seems to be a pretty big event from what I hear. 40:27.640 --> 40:37.620 All I can really do is point you to CCC, that's Chaos Communication Camp, or actually Chaos Communications Club, I guess is what that stands for. 40:37.620 --> 40:38.620 Chaos Computer Club. 40:38.700 --> 40:40.100 Chaos Computer Club, right. 40:40.100 --> 40:45.880 Dot DE, because that is a German site, for more information on it. 40:46.220 --> 40:53.600 I wish I could add more to it, but unless, Tom, unless you know anything more about it, I've never been, and all I know is what I've heard. 40:54.540 --> 40:56.800 And it looks – from what I have seen, it looks really cool. 40:56.860 --> 40:58.460 It is actually an outdoors thing. 40:58.540 --> 40:59.600 You go out and camp out. 40:59.600 --> 41:10.900 And I think I heard them saying something about they were different countries represented, so you could go to different areas and meet people all from one country in that area, listening to their type of music. 41:11.320 --> 41:17.180 And, you know, you could learn a lot about the individual countries and people and what their views and stuff on hacking are. 41:17.180 --> 41:22.920 So it sounds like a really cool, cool event, but I really don't have any more insight on it than that. 41:24.720 --> 41:28.300 Have you ever gone to any of these, Tom, or do you know anybody that has? 41:28.300 --> 41:32.620 I've never been to any of the Eurocons, although I hear they are very good, so. 41:33.080 --> 41:35.300 Yeah, and it's pretty big from what I understand, too. 41:35.340 --> 41:36.200 It's not a small thing. 41:36.260 --> 41:37.300 I think it's a big conference. 41:39.360 --> 41:41.760 Well, I'm curious now as to what kind of numbers I might have on. 41:41.760 --> 41:46.160 I guess if I were a good show host, I would have looked that up beforehand, but I suck at this. 41:46.160 --> 41:48.960 So I guess I have to move on to another email. 41:50.060 --> 41:55.160 Email, ah, speaking of Europe, email is from Jay from Norway. 41:55.580 --> 41:56.300 Well, yeah. 41:57.980 --> 42:04.880 Jay says, hi, I'm just loving the telephonic craptacular shows and the regular bin rev shows. 42:05.840 --> 42:06.920 They were awesome. 42:07.080 --> 42:14.720 I was going to download the other telephonic craptacular shows from Freak Factor, but the shows would not download. 42:14.720 --> 42:16.680 And now I can't even enter the site. 42:17.560 --> 42:20.640 I listen to the regular show, bin rev, some on and off. 42:20.720 --> 42:28.480 I laugh my ass off every time you get off at something that is not the way it should be. 42:28.600 --> 42:32.860 Like the internet access service that just let you know that you can't have internet access. 42:33.400 --> 42:35.760 And the story about the cat that phoned the police. 42:36.540 --> 42:37.780 Man, that was some funny shit. 42:37.780 --> 42:40.160 See, I don't even remember these. 42:40.760 --> 42:43.300 I am getting old and senile because I just don't remember. 42:44.180 --> 42:45.340 More stories like that. 42:45.440 --> 42:50.520 One other thing on the first telephonic craptacular show, that ringtone that you had on your phone, where can I get that? 42:50.560 --> 42:51.100 That was cool. 42:51.340 --> 42:52.280 Yeah, I don't know that either. 42:52.920 --> 42:57.640 You're doing a great show, Stank Dog, Keep Up the Good Work, and Get the Freak Factor Back to Work. 42:57.780 --> 42:58.820 Jay from Norway. 42:58.820 --> 43:00.360 So, A, fucking Norway. 43:00.460 --> 43:04.420 How cool is it to get an email from Norway for crying out loud? 43:05.100 --> 43:06.060 That is so cool. 43:06.540 --> 43:07.640 Over the years... 43:07.640 --> 43:08.840 The land of the ice and snow. 43:09.000 --> 43:10.740 The midnight sun where the harsh winds blow. 43:11.620 --> 43:12.920 What the hell is that from? 43:15.600 --> 43:16.300 Oh, come on. 43:16.320 --> 43:19.100 You're old enough to know Led Zeppelin. 43:20.020 --> 43:20.800 Oh, is that... 43:20.800 --> 43:21.560 Hmm. 43:23.180 --> 43:25.220 I can't say that I... 43:25.220 --> 43:26.540 First thing that jumped into my head. 43:26.560 --> 43:26.600 Immigrant's gone. 43:27.120 --> 43:27.680 Yeah, it just... 43:27.680 --> 43:29.640 It didn't pop into my head until you mentioned it. 43:30.220 --> 43:31.400 Yeah, I guess I... 43:31.400 --> 43:32.920 Man, I missed on that one. 43:35.440 --> 43:37.400 You really must be getting senile. 43:37.780 --> 43:38.920 I guess so, man. 43:38.960 --> 43:39.420 I don't know. 43:39.500 --> 43:40.380 Maybe it's too late. 43:40.480 --> 43:43.300 Maybe it's the heat down here in Florida. 43:43.300 --> 43:47.940 Isn't it just amazing that we get emails from, like, from Norway. 43:47.940 --> 43:54.280 We've gotten them from Africa, Australia, troops in Iraq, and just you name the countries. 43:54.380 --> 43:57.180 We've gotten emails from them over the four years we've been doing the show. 43:57.340 --> 43:58.380 I regret it now. 43:58.680 --> 44:04.660 I always wanted to do this, and I regret it now that I didn't, like, record everywhere we've got one. 44:04.700 --> 44:12.420 I guess I could go back and find all the emails from all the different countries and, like, note them on a map somewhere and see what's represented, 44:12.420 --> 44:20.620 how far this little pissant show that I do every week that I started just for the fun of it with Dual Parallel and Wintermute and I, 44:20.700 --> 44:24.120 just because we wanted to have fun and talk about hacking, 44:25.020 --> 44:30.280 out of this little home office here in my little 11 by 11 room here in Florida, 44:30.280 --> 44:32.920 and there's somebody in Norway listening to it. 44:32.940 --> 44:37.260 That continuously amazes me, and I don't think it'll ever get old. 44:37.500 --> 44:38.420 I really don't. 44:38.480 --> 44:39.580 I think that's amazing. 44:39.720 --> 44:40.840 I love the interweb. 44:42.560 --> 44:47.180 As far as Freak Factor, you know, maybe you can help me with this, Tom. 44:47.260 --> 44:52.460 I keep yelling at Not Theory about this, but he's too busy out there making the green, you know, 44:52.460 --> 44:58.100 bringing in that paycheck that he hasn't got Freak Factor back up and running again. 44:58.400 --> 45:01.420 And we talked about it a few months or a few episodes ago. 45:01.560 --> 45:02.740 Well, it probably was a few months ago. 45:03.480 --> 45:05.440 Somebody else asking about Freak Factor. 45:06.240 --> 45:09.560 Freak Factor is the funniest thing, and Not Theory and I joke about this all the time. 45:10.340 --> 45:12.100 People hated Freak Factor. 45:12.700 --> 45:17.220 Oh, they called it the Special Olympics of Hacker Radio, I think somebody called it once. 45:17.260 --> 45:19.320 I think Jason Scott, as a matter of fact, called it that. 45:19.320 --> 45:22.640 Or Mensa for Retards, I think you call it. 45:23.780 --> 45:29.880 I mean, everybody hated the show, but at the same time, everybody is dying to have the show come back. 45:29.980 --> 45:31.200 It's the funniest thing. 45:31.600 --> 45:35.860 It must be like that kind of thing where everyone has to stop and look when they pass a car wreck. 45:36.120 --> 45:37.120 Yeah, exactly. 45:37.320 --> 45:37.880 But you know what? 45:37.920 --> 45:38.840 I always loved it. 45:38.860 --> 45:43.440 I thought it was hilarious because it was so random and chaotic and such a clusterfuck. 45:43.520 --> 45:44.800 I always loved that about it. 45:45.120 --> 45:46.540 I've actually never listened to it. 45:46.540 --> 45:48.440 You know, we build it from the get-go. 45:48.440 --> 45:51.120 The world's first reality radio show. 45:51.380 --> 45:53.960 It was just a conference that we streamed. 45:54.000 --> 45:54.460 That was it. 45:55.440 --> 45:56.420 That's the whole premise. 45:56.780 --> 45:57.940 Whatever happens, happens. 45:58.940 --> 46:00.080 So we would plan a few... 46:00.080 --> 46:02.980 Yeah, throw in a couple of McDonald's and 7-Elevens in the loop and call it good. 46:03.100 --> 46:03.660 Yeah, really. 46:03.880 --> 46:06.400 No, you know what they did is they called Walmart intercoms. 46:06.500 --> 46:08.220 I'll try to get on the intercoms all the time. 46:08.300 --> 46:09.280 That was the running joke. 46:09.840 --> 46:16.440 It sounds like the old 0700-456-1000 Alliance teleconferences we used to do back in the day. 46:16.440 --> 46:21.820 And that's what the premise of the show was to, like, all the fun and all the stuff that would go on on conferences like that. 46:22.200 --> 46:22.900 Let's stream it. 46:22.940 --> 46:24.240 Let people listen to it. 46:24.760 --> 46:30.700 We didn't even start recording it at first because we didn't think anybody would want to listen to it on repeat or on an MP3. 46:31.260 --> 46:34.820 We just did it because people can take part in it and have a conference call and that's it. 46:34.820 --> 46:45.740 But people wanted to download it afterwards and then they still hated it but they wanted us to make it available in MP3 format and then they wanted show notes and all this other stuff. 46:46.760 --> 46:46.960 All right. 46:47.000 --> 46:47.340 Well, look. 46:47.680 --> 46:53.840 Anyway, we talked about this a while back and I told everybody if you want it back, you've got to email Knot Theory. 46:54.460 --> 46:55.620 And I talked to Knot Theory. 46:55.720 --> 46:57.160 He said he never got a single email. 46:57.160 --> 46:59.760 So, I don't know what the hell you people are doing or what you want. 46:59.800 --> 47:05.200 If you really want it back, the only thing you can do to get Freak Factor back, email him in theory at bellsmind.net. 47:05.280 --> 47:05.960 I think that's email. 47:06.700 --> 47:07.380 Email him. 47:07.560 --> 47:08.540 Tell him to get on the ball. 47:08.660 --> 47:09.300 Get on the stick. 47:09.620 --> 47:10.560 You want your Freak Factor. 47:10.620 --> 47:11.960 Tell him, I hate Freak Factor. 47:12.080 --> 47:12.980 When will it be back? 47:13.080 --> 47:14.080 That's what you should tell him. 47:15.720 --> 47:16.360 I don't know. 47:16.420 --> 47:17.220 That's all I can tell you. 47:17.260 --> 47:19.560 The guy's out there making the money so I can understand that. 47:19.620 --> 47:22.280 Trying to pad his pockets a little bit. 47:22.280 --> 47:27.920 So, and Freak Factor, see, we had problems with Freak Factor with bandwidth issues. 47:28.020 --> 47:28.680 That's the other thing. 47:28.860 --> 47:32.800 Bandwidth, not from the, you know, we're fine on hosting bandwidth and stuff. 47:32.920 --> 47:37.940 But you got all those concurrent calls at the same time and going over voice over IP. 47:38.320 --> 47:41.000 That's a lot of channels and a lot of bandwidth getting eaten up. 47:41.160 --> 47:44.160 And that's been the biggest thing that slows it down. 47:44.360 --> 47:47.140 But Knot Theory can come up with a solution. 47:47.260 --> 47:48.360 He's like a super ninja. 47:48.560 --> 47:49.640 So, he'll figure something out. 47:49.640 --> 47:53.500 Yeah, he has serious heavy-duty Freak Ninja skills. 47:53.580 --> 47:54.240 Are you kidding? 47:54.360 --> 47:55.780 He's like the master. 47:56.340 --> 47:58.720 He's like the bald master at the top of the mountain. 48:00.580 --> 48:01.880 Anyway, last email. 48:02.180 --> 48:03.820 Last time I saw him, he wasn't looking too bald. 48:04.160 --> 48:05.400 No, yeah, yeah, yeah, true. 48:06.220 --> 48:10.280 Well, I was going to say you should have seen him back in the day. 48:10.340 --> 48:11.720 But you did see him back in the day. 48:12.920 --> 48:16.080 Anyway, before we drop any docs on Knot Theory, 48:16.080 --> 48:18.720 let's move our last email so we can get into the main topic. 48:18.720 --> 48:21.100 The last email comes from Martin. 48:22.680 --> 48:25.640 I think that was a real name and I'm just going to put Martin. 48:26.200 --> 48:26.920 Martin says, 48:27.080 --> 48:29.400 Arrgh, insert favorite swear word here. 48:29.960 --> 48:32.180 Um, I'm going to go with dickhole fucker. 48:32.580 --> 48:34.900 Arrgh, dickhole fucker. 48:35.440 --> 48:38.840 Stop using these damn tiny URL links, exclamation point. 48:38.960 --> 48:41.900 They are totally dumb, exclamation point. 48:41.980 --> 48:43.360 Try linkpot instead. 48:43.360 --> 48:48.100 Tiny URL, but the links consisting of words instead of letters and numbers. 48:48.540 --> 48:49.160 Much better. 48:49.320 --> 48:50.900 Perfect for verbal communication. 48:51.540 --> 48:55.300 www.linkpot.net. 48:55.400 --> 48:57.620 That's L-I-N-K-P-O-T dot net. 48:58.020 --> 48:58.920 Keep up the good work. 48:59.040 --> 49:01.420 I've not decided if it's good or not. 49:01.640 --> 49:01.900 Excuse me. 49:01.920 --> 49:02.620 Keep up the work. 49:02.740 --> 49:04.060 I've not decided if it's good or not. 49:04.060 --> 49:06.100 Well, first of all, thanks for the link. 49:06.180 --> 49:06.940 I like that. 49:07.180 --> 49:10.400 And I like it so much that's going to be our site of the week for this week. 49:10.800 --> 49:13.040 I'll remind everybody of that again at the end of the show. 49:13.220 --> 49:14.580 But, yes, I like the site. 49:14.660 --> 49:15.560 Thank you very much for that. 49:16.240 --> 49:18.500 As far as the show, yeah, it's not good. 49:18.640 --> 49:19.460 Take my word for it. 49:19.560 --> 49:20.020 Move on. 49:20.420 --> 49:21.020 Yeah, it sucks. 49:21.180 --> 49:22.100 Yeah, exactly. 49:22.380 --> 49:25.680 And, speaking of sucks, how's that for a segue? 49:26.140 --> 49:28.300 We're going to move right into this sucky topic. 49:28.400 --> 49:33.880 Actually, no, seriously, I really had to do a lot of research on this topic. 49:34.700 --> 49:39.100 And our topic tonight is, well, I was referring to it as just easy pass systems. 49:39.100 --> 49:43.920 But Tom's going to explain to us that there's actually some proper terminology for what we're going to talk about. 49:45.680 --> 49:50.280 And I spent the last, like, two weeks researching this because I did not know much about it. 49:50.280 --> 49:53.900 And I had heard a lot of things from other people, you know. 49:54.120 --> 49:55.440 I heard that it uses this. 49:55.500 --> 49:56.500 I heard it's based on that. 49:56.540 --> 49:58.580 I heard that this works, that works, blah, blah. 49:58.660 --> 50:01.180 So I had to do research and verify stuff on my own. 50:02.260 --> 50:11.720 And I guess the best way to approach this is, let's see, we've got about 30 to 35 minutes to cover this. 50:11.720 --> 50:17.660 So I'll quickly explain the basics of what an easy pass is. 50:17.820 --> 50:18.860 Or here in Florida we have it. 50:18.940 --> 50:19.900 It's called a sun pass. 50:20.840 --> 50:24.700 And what it is, and I'll make this very quick, the basics of what this device is. 50:24.720 --> 50:30.300 Because I know a lot of our listeners are in places that don't have toll roads or nowhere near a highway. 50:30.720 --> 50:32.700 Or hell, some probably can't even drive. 50:33.400 --> 50:33.800 Whatever. 50:34.060 --> 50:37.740 But basically what these are is it's a device that you put in the windshield of your car. 50:38.040 --> 50:39.120 And we'll elaborate later. 50:39.520 --> 50:41.400 But it's something you put in the windshield of your car. 50:41.400 --> 50:44.560 New York, New Jersey has easy pass, which you're familiar with, sun pass. 50:44.980 --> 50:46.700 California has something called fast track. 50:46.780 --> 50:47.940 And there's probably a bunch of others. 50:47.940 --> 50:54.300 And what it is, is you put a certain amount of money into an account that is used for tolls. 50:54.300 --> 50:58.120 And that money is tied to the unique device that you have purchased. 50:58.320 --> 51:02.640 You give them a credit card or a bank account so that they'll automatically refill that when it runs low. 51:02.640 --> 51:06.500 Now, there's some privacy issues there we'll probably touch on later. 51:06.940 --> 51:11.260 But there's going to be some prepaid versions that are going to be coming out at least here in Florida. 51:12.120 --> 51:14.480 So if we have time, we might talk about those as well. 51:14.480 --> 51:30.820 And then the third part to complete this cycle is that when you drive through a toll road, and even if you don't have them, you know what we're talking about with a toll road, it's going to deduct whatever the toll amount is from your account as you drive through the tolls. 51:30.820 --> 51:37.680 So you don't have to stop and throw coins into a slot or hand money to a human person that's going to count out change or any of that kind of stuff. 51:37.880 --> 51:45.680 You can drive through, and electronically, it will deduct whatever the amount is, sometimes with a discount as an incentive to make you use that. 51:45.720 --> 51:52.180 It helps speed up traffic, saves a lot of money for them because they don't have to hire employees, et cetera, et cetera. 51:52.180 --> 52:03.500 Now, again, I'm trying not to go too far off on this either, but the whole point was it was going to save a lot of money because you don't have payroll, as much payroll. 52:03.620 --> 52:04.540 You don't have as many employees. 52:05.500 --> 52:18.720 But in actuality, it's been found that the tolls not only don't go down, but there was a study by Ann Finkelstein from MIT, Finkelstein, Finkelstein, and I'll put the link to this up in the show notes, 52:18.720 --> 52:25.580 that shows that fees are actually gone up 20% to 40% in areas with electronic tolls, which should be going way down. 52:26.400 --> 52:31.320 So I'll put a link up to that in the show notes, so I won't try not to go too much into that unless we have time later. 52:31.420 --> 52:34.300 Let's focus on the technological aspect of this. 52:34.400 --> 52:41.180 Now, I went through that really quick, Tom, so why don't you fill in some blanks here because I didn't put any terminology in there. 52:41.220 --> 52:45.740 I just described the process, but there are some terms that people probably should be aware of. 52:45.740 --> 52:47.800 Okay. Yes, there are. 52:48.720 --> 52:59.420 Now, for starters, everything, it's all this stuff, all this electronics that you're seeing on highways, 52:59.620 --> 53:03.540 whether it's toll collectors or any other type of infrastructure, 53:04.220 --> 53:11.820 it all comes under the umbrella term of ITS, Intelligent Transportation Systems. 53:11.820 --> 53:25.440 And in a nutshell, back during the Clinton administration, a law was passed regarding the modernization of highways 53:25.440 --> 53:36.920 and basically adding all these sensors and stuff to it, it actually even goes back further into something called critical infrastructure. 53:36.920 --> 53:43.920 And that's all under the catch-all term of ITS, Intelligent Transportation Systems. 53:43.920 --> 53:56.120 Now, the part of Intelligent Transportation Systems that has to deal with the E-Z-Pass is E-T-T-M, 53:56.120 --> 54:01.820 which stands for Electronic Toll and Traffic Management. 54:01.820 --> 54:12.120 And so not only is there toll collecting done with the E-T-T-M, but there's also management of the vehicular traffic. 54:12.120 --> 54:27.580 Now, that is done on the business end of that, which is your E-Z-Pass transponder, is referred to as A-V-I, Automatic Vehicle Identification. 54:27.580 --> 54:35.340 And essentially, that's, you know, your E-Z-Pass is essentially a miniature transponder. 54:35.780 --> 54:49.320 It has a unique ID in it, and when it hits, you know, a reader, the, you know, the transponder pings back and, you know, generates your ID. 54:49.320 --> 55:04.860 Once you, you know, once that ID is received by the reader on the highway, it's then, you know, cross-referenced via a database, you know, for the intent of this show, 55:05.240 --> 55:14.060 the database would happen to be the, you know, the toll collection database where your account is linked so it can, you know, deduct the money from your, you know, toll collection account fund. 55:14.060 --> 55:22.520 Right, and that, you know, that is kind of the back end of the system, if you will, as most databases are. 55:22.840 --> 55:26.720 That's the back end, and it's definitely difficult to find information on that. 55:26.820 --> 55:29.640 I'm certain it's a proprietary database system of some kind. 55:31.260 --> 55:38.100 How do you think we should, I think the best way to approach this maybe would be to kind of walk through the process on very small steps, 55:38.100 --> 55:42.700 very small details, and kind of explain it as we go through. 55:42.800 --> 55:43.960 Does that sound like a good approach? 55:44.060 --> 55:44.780 Sure. 55:46.640 --> 55:57.120 The, most of the information I'm getting from actually came from the FCC, a wireless telecommunication, FCC ID database. 55:57.820 --> 56:05.120 Anything in this country, in the United States, that is, that generates RF energy has to be approved by the FCC before it can be marketed, 56:05.540 --> 56:07.020 and it's given an FCC ID. 56:08.080 --> 56:13.080 Back, now, the last time I did any research on the EZPass was back in the late 90s. 56:13.080 --> 56:26.420 When I did that article for 2600 magazine, and we acquired the FCC IDs off of it, and using the FCC IDs, we could go on the FCC database 56:26.420 --> 56:31.620 and, you know, pull a whole lot of information regarding on how the system works. 56:31.620 --> 56:42.820 Now, keep in mind that this is public information, but it only deals with the electronic and electromagnetic aspects of the system. 56:42.820 --> 56:49.380 And that's actually an open standard at this point, which you can download, and we'll get into that, you know, later on in the show. 56:49.380 --> 56:57.480 So, but essentially what you have is, you have your transponder that is mounted on your vehicle windshield, 56:57.940 --> 57:01.840 and then you have a reader. 57:03.000 --> 57:11.240 And the reader has eight RF modules on it, each that have an antenna attached to it. 57:11.240 --> 57:17.740 So, basically, up to eight antennas can be serviced by a single reader via the RF modules. 57:18.080 --> 57:29.020 Well, before we go to those, what about the actual device itself inside of the car, the thing that people are purchasing, the RF transponder? 57:29.020 --> 57:43.660 Well, the transponder is basically a transmitter that operates on 915 megahertz, which is smart smack dab in the middle of the 902 to 928 license-free 57:43.660 --> 57:46.260 and industrial and scientific and medical devices band. 57:47.380 --> 57:55.800 Interestingly enough, if you do a search from 902 to 928 megahertz in a particular state that service is easy past, 57:55.800 --> 58:02.460 you will get a listing of all the locations of the transponders, not the transponders, of the readers, 58:03.160 --> 58:08.740 because the readers are actually transmitters, and they have to be, you know, licensed by the FCC. 58:09.840 --> 58:10.320 Interesting. 58:10.720 --> 58:18.900 And, basically, the way it works is the reader sends out a 915 megahertz signal that has a data stream, 58:19.620 --> 58:23.740 and the data stream, you know, it is a certain data format, which is an open standard, 58:23.740 --> 58:29.820 and basically what it does is the reader sends out this data stream. 58:31.020 --> 58:38.120 I'm sorry, the open standard you mentioned, that can be looked up by looking up that FCC? 58:38.980 --> 58:42.000 No, actually, we'll go into the standard a little bit. 58:42.560 --> 58:46.840 Back when this stuff first came out, California, being the unique state that they are, 58:46.840 --> 58:54.280 which has to pass laws on everything, actually developed a standard for AVI systems. 58:54.900 --> 59:02.000 And that standard can be found in California Code of Regulations Title 21. 59:02.000 --> 59:16.560 And if you do, if you jump up on the California Code of Regulations website and you look for, 59:16.560 --> 59:20.720 you know, Title 21, you will actually find it. 59:20.720 --> 59:32.120 And it's actually rather, and it has the entire, you know, specifications for, you know, the readers on there. 59:32.440 --> 59:36.940 California said, if you want our money, this is the standards that you have to meet, 59:37.020 --> 59:40.560 and they published it, and the companies had to abide by those. 59:40.720 --> 59:40.980 Yep. 59:40.980 --> 59:46.460 And I can tell you right off the top, just reading the specs right out of California Title 21, 59:46.620 --> 59:49.440 it's very interesting about Title 21, as big as it is, the first standard. 59:49.760 --> 59:53.840 It has basically become a de facto and now an open standard. 59:54.420 --> 59:56.760 And, of course, if a company wants to do business with California, 59:56.860 --> 59:59.420 which is one of the biggest and most populated states in the union, 59:59.820 --> 01:00:01.580 they have to be Title 21 compliant. 01:00:01.820 --> 01:00:03.740 So it's easier for them to do that, 01:00:03.740 --> 01:00:09.020 and then everyone else just falls in line and uses California Title 21 compliant systems. 01:00:09.020 --> 01:00:11.520 And getting a little technical here, 01:00:12.220 --> 01:00:16.500 the transponder specifications use modulated backscatter technology. 01:00:17.420 --> 01:00:20.000 Transponder antenna polarization is horizontal. 01:00:20.260 --> 01:00:24.940 Field of view is operation within a 90-degree conical angle from the front of the vehicle. 01:00:25.960 --> 01:00:31.140 Carrier frequency is 915 plus or minus 13 megahertz, subject to FCC assignment. 01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:37.960 It uses subcarrier AM carrier modulation with a frequency shift keyed subcarrier. 01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:43.460 The subcarrier frequencies are 600 kilohertz plus or minus 10 percent 01:00:43.460 --> 01:00:50.520 and 1,200 kilohertz plus or minus 10 percent at 300 kilobits per second. 01:00:53.020 --> 01:00:54.180 Wow. Okay. 01:00:54.780 --> 01:01:02.360 The reader specifications, the trigger signal is 33 microseconds of unmodulated RF at 915 plus or minus 13 megahertz. 01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:10.400 Carrier modulation is unipolar ASK, Manchester encoded, at 300 kilobit. 01:01:11.100 --> 01:01:17.540 And the field strength at the transponder antenna has to be a minimum of 500 millivolts per meter. 01:01:18.540 --> 01:01:22.760 And that is straight out of California Title 21, which you can download off the Internet. 01:01:22.760 --> 01:01:29.160 Now, let's translate a lot of that for people like, oh, I don't know, me, who aren't up to speed on a lot of that stuff. 01:01:29.500 --> 01:01:34.920 That's basically dictating a lot of things like the power and the range of these to make sure. 01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:39.480 That's also the specifications of the data stream. 01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:49.340 Basically, when it comes to reading the data that comes off these transponders, Title 21, for an individual who is knowledgeable in electronics 01:01:49.340 --> 01:01:54.360 and, you know, electronic communication, Title 21 pretty much gives the candy store away. 01:01:55.400 --> 01:01:56.080 Right. 01:01:56.080 --> 01:02:07.640 And since I had access to the Mark IV Industries transponder, which is the transponder of choice for the New York State Thru-Aids EasyPass system, 01:02:09.420 --> 01:02:16.600 the generic model number is the Flat Pack transponder FPT-2000 from Mark IV Industries. 01:02:16.600 --> 01:02:26.880 And the specs I have date back to 2001, and essentially they are a duplicate of the Title 21 specs. 01:02:28.340 --> 01:02:30.940 Well, there's no point in reinventing the wheel for other states. 01:02:31.100 --> 01:02:37.200 If California has already set the standards, set the precedents, then as a business standpoint, as a business person, 01:02:37.340 --> 01:02:40.240 yeah, you might as well just use that for the other states as well. 01:02:40.240 --> 01:02:45.840 So it has become a pretty normal standard throughout all of these systems in all of these states. 01:02:46.600 --> 01:02:52.880 And essentially, you know, the way the system works is actually, you know, fairly simple. 01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:56.560 That reader is, you know, sending out this wake-up signal. 01:02:57.040 --> 01:03:00.120 The transponder detects it, kicks back its ID. 01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:07.140 That ID is then sent out over a network to a, you know, host computer of some sort. 01:03:07.140 --> 01:03:09.240 And let's make sure we're clear here. 01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:16.360 Now, when we say what's listening and what's, you know, the transponder is the device that's sitting in your car. 01:03:16.600 --> 01:03:18.820 The transponder is the device that's sitting in your car. 01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:19.060 Right. 01:03:19.140 --> 01:03:22.880 So as you pull up to the toll plaza, you've got that RF field being emitted from... 01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:23.960 The reader. 01:03:23.960 --> 01:03:28.680 Well, you've got, yeah, from the reader, which is inside of the lane, the toll lane that you're going through. 01:03:28.940 --> 01:03:29.680 Yeah, if you look up. 01:03:29.680 --> 01:03:30.620 And that activates this. 01:03:30.620 --> 01:03:33.300 If you look up, you'll see this big panel antenna directly above you. 01:03:33.300 --> 01:03:40.760 And the transponder then sends a signal back to that antenna with whatever information it's requested. 01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:41.480 Yeah. 01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:47.360 And that standard of data that's in there is also part of that, not RFC, but what was it? 01:03:48.240 --> 01:03:51.280 It's actually a law in California, Title 21. 01:03:51.400 --> 01:03:52.420 Title 21, right. 01:03:52.500 --> 01:03:53.840 So that's defined there as well. 01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:57.980 Yes, and they actually have the definitions for the data codes. 01:03:59.580 --> 01:04:03.100 Like there is a 16-bit in the data code. 01:04:03.220 --> 01:04:09.240 There's an agency code, which is a 16-bit code that identifies the agency that has the authority to conduct the transaction. 01:04:09.240 --> 01:04:17.280 The reader ID number, which uniquely identifies the reader, is a 32-bit field. 01:04:18.420 --> 01:04:25.740 The transaction record type code, which identifies the type of transaction between the reader and the transponder, is 16 bits. 01:04:26.340 --> 01:04:31.880 And the transponder ID number is actually 32 bits long. 01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:39.240 And it's very important to emphasize that that, for obvious reasons, has to be a unique number to every transponder out there. 01:04:39.540 --> 01:04:39.840 Yes. 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:48.000 So 32 bits is chosen because there's enough possible combinations, because these things are going to be going on for years and years and years. 01:04:48.160 --> 01:04:50.220 People are going to destroy them, need new ones. 01:04:50.460 --> 01:04:54.100 And you can't have any possibility of colliding numbers at any point. 01:04:54.660 --> 01:05:00.140 Yeah, I'd say it would be quite a – I mean, I'd have to convert the binary to decimal. 01:05:00.140 --> 01:05:02.420 But 32 bits is – 01:05:02.420 --> 01:05:07.960 Well, it's the whole reason we're switching from 16-bit addressing to 32-bit addressing on IP. 01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:10.340 So it's the same concept there. 01:05:10.560 --> 01:05:12.120 There's not enough of the 16-bit. 01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:14.060 So 32-bit is a lot. 01:05:14.140 --> 01:05:15.240 We'll just say it like that. 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:19.600 But important to note that each one is unique to each transponder. 01:05:19.720 --> 01:05:21.040 So every car is different. 01:05:21.160 --> 01:05:22.420 Every transponder is different. 01:05:22.820 --> 01:05:23.060 Yes. 01:05:23.060 --> 01:05:42.620 And you also have to remember there's a 16-bit code for the agency that your particular transponder is registered with so that, you know, in addition to that 32-bit field, you know, for the transponder ID, you also have a 16-bit code corresponding to the agency. 01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:43.280 All right. 01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:48.980 And that's because – I'm going to go out on a limb here, so correct me if this is wrong or where I go wrong. 01:05:49.580 --> 01:06:10.120 But because, as it turns out, the nature of California driving a lot of the decisions on this and all the systems being built and designed the same way to save time and resources, obviously, these things, for the most part, can communicate with each other or use the same standards and theoretically could communicate with each other. 01:06:10.120 --> 01:06:16.520 Well, if it's Title 21-compliant, it's Title 21-compliant. 01:06:16.640 --> 01:06:22.400 Any Title 21-compliant transponder will communicate with a Title 21-compliant reader. 01:06:23.220 --> 01:06:24.580 That's why it's an open standard. 01:06:24.980 --> 01:06:34.860 And, of course, what that has led to is, you know, reciprocity between different, you know, toll-collecting authorities, 01:06:34.860 --> 01:06:42.820 which is why you can take your E-ZPass system, which is assigned in New York, for the thruway, 01:06:43.420 --> 01:06:52.160 and use it anywhere from the Mass Pike down to the New York State thruway on all the bridges and tunnels in New York City, 01:06:52.180 --> 01:06:54.240 which are not part of the New York State thruway. 01:06:54.240 --> 01:07:00.740 They're either part of the New York State Bridge Authority, if they're outside of New York City, or MTA, Metro Transit, 01:07:01.240 --> 01:07:05.980 which handles all the bridges and tunnels in New York City proper. 01:07:06.200 --> 01:07:16.580 You can put it on the New Jersey Turnpike, which is yet another agency or, you know, business, you know, toll road business agency. 01:07:16.580 --> 01:07:21.660 You can use it on the Garden State Parkway, which is something else entirely different, 01:07:22.060 --> 01:07:27.880 because the Garden State Parkway and the New Jersey Turnpike are two different, you know, roads. 01:07:28.040 --> 01:07:29.720 They're governed by two different agencies. 01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:37.240 They can use it down in Maryland, Pennsylvania, on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, on all the toll roads in Maryland, 01:07:37.240 --> 01:07:45.360 and I believe as far down south as Virginia, and I'm not too sure if there are any agreements, you know, 01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:49.280 with it off the eastern seaboard, but conceivably there could be. 01:07:49.820 --> 01:07:57.160 Well, and just to clarify that because all of these are Part 21 compliant, including SunPass here in Florida, 01:07:57.760 --> 01:08:02.700 that means that inherently my SunPass, which I actually don't have one, 01:08:02.700 --> 01:08:08.420 but SunPass here in Florida could communicate with the device in New York City. 01:08:08.660 --> 01:08:10.700 However, they may not necessarily cooperate. 01:08:11.420 --> 01:08:17.500 It'll communicate but not cooperate because there's no, what was the word, reciprocity between the two. 01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:24.200 They're not cooperating, so it's going to see that mine was assigned by some state, some other company, 01:08:24.360 --> 01:08:30.160 some other agency that it does not recognize and therefore can't deduct my money because it's like, 01:08:30.160 --> 01:08:34.720 wait a minute, I see the signal that you're sending me, but you're not on the list. 01:08:35.240 --> 01:08:40.380 Yeah, well, I actually know someone that ran into a case with that out in Oklahoma. 01:08:41.160 --> 01:08:50.920 The individual in question was from New Jersey and went out to Oklahoma for tourist purposes, 01:08:50.920 --> 01:09:00.200 and Oklahoma on their toll roads uses a Title 21 compliant system like I'm sure most of the rest of the country does. 01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:06.200 And, you know, it basically kickback is invalid because, like I said, 01:09:06.340 --> 01:09:14.380 Oklahoma does not have an agreement with, you know, the New York State Thruway Authority. 01:09:14.380 --> 01:09:14.420 Right. 01:09:16.620 --> 01:09:21.620 So the communication would probably be, it'll probably show up on an error list on the back end somewhere. 01:09:21.780 --> 01:09:22.560 It'll be discarded. 01:09:23.240 --> 01:09:27.580 And as far as you know, you're, as far as they know, you're somebody who doesn't have an easy pass. 01:09:27.800 --> 01:09:31.480 Or Oklahoma doesn't, you don't have one that communicates with them, so. 01:09:31.540 --> 01:09:36.580 Yeah, well, what ends up, I mean, from a database, you know, from a database standard, yeah, there'll be an error. 01:09:36.580 --> 01:09:44.960 Or what that particular authority decides to do with that, you know, error would be up to their, you know, special operating, you know, standard operating procedures. 01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:47.360 They might just ignore it. 01:09:47.900 --> 01:09:53.800 Or, being is that a picture is generally taken of a license plate as it's going through the system. 01:09:55.060 --> 01:10:01.380 They can always, you know, look up the license plate and, you know, send you your bill in the mail. 01:10:02.020 --> 01:10:04.020 Right, and that's most likely what would happen. 01:10:04.020 --> 01:10:08.260 Now, and we just kind of ran through that whole process again, but just, let's kind of go back and break it down again. 01:10:08.780 --> 01:10:14.220 You're going to be approaching the toll plaza, that handshake, for lack of a better word, is going to take place. 01:10:14.300 --> 01:10:17.760 The antenna is going to see the transponder, send some information. 01:10:18.480 --> 01:10:24.000 That information is going to be transferred to their central database of whatever agency that you're talking about. 01:10:24.040 --> 01:10:26.040 In this case, we're focusing mostly on New York. 01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:33.700 It's going to check that database to see if that account has any credit or, I guess, debit, any money on it. 01:10:34.020 --> 01:10:35.120 And is in good standing. 01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:43.580 And if so, it's going to open the gate or turn on the green light or whatever the case may be so that you can drive on through it. 01:10:43.660 --> 01:10:45.680 End of the whole process right there. 01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:56.420 Or, if it hits the back-end database and you don't have money on it or you have something knock, some knock against you or whatever, then it may or may not let you drive through. 01:10:56.540 --> 01:10:59.940 But even if it does, it's going to take a picture of your license plate, which we didn't mention yet. 01:10:59.960 --> 01:11:00.720 You just mentioned it. 01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:06.720 Most of these have cameras, very high-quality cameras, that are going to take a picture of your license plate. 01:11:07.160 --> 01:11:10.680 And I think I might have neglected the mention up front when I talked about this. 01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:19.760 When you buy that transponder, and you have to confirm this for me up there, but down here, you have to actually register the vehicle that you're putting that transponder in. 01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:22.580 You have to give them your license plate number, your name and address, and all that stuff. 01:11:22.580 --> 01:11:23.760 That works the same up here. 01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:26.300 That's how they have to tie it back to somebody. 01:11:26.400 --> 01:11:27.920 Otherwise, it's kind of useless. 01:11:28.740 --> 01:11:30.540 So, it does get tied back to you. 01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:31.680 So, they have your license plate. 01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:34.560 They take a picture if you drive through, if you don't have funds. 01:11:35.300 --> 01:11:38.620 And, again, every state is going to be different as far as how they respond to it. 01:11:38.640 --> 01:11:41.380 As you said, in Oklahoma, they may choose to ignore it. 01:11:42.420 --> 01:11:52.180 But what happens here in Florida, and I think this is fairly universal, is it will take the picture, and usually they'll give you one shot where they just give you a warning. 01:11:52.180 --> 01:11:56.640 You'll get a thing in the mail saying, we took your picture, you went through here, but you didn't have the funds. 01:11:57.500 --> 01:12:00.580 They'll give you one warning, from what I've heard anyway. 01:12:00.980 --> 01:12:06.200 And if it happens a second time, basically you're issued a citation for running through the toll without paying. 01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:07.120 Yes. 01:12:07.640 --> 01:12:17.080 If you have a good, valid reason for it, or that's why they give you the warning, is some people may not realize that, oh, I forgot to change my credit card number you had on file. 01:12:17.080 --> 01:12:23.240 Or my checking account didn't have enough balance in it and bounce to check, or whatever the case may be, so that you can fix it. 01:12:24.180 --> 01:12:29.340 So that's the normal way it works down here, and it sounds like you're telling me that's the same up there as well. 01:12:29.340 --> 01:12:40.160 The anecdotal evidence I've received regarding the system up here is that they're generally pretty, how can I say, liberal with their policies regarding it. 01:12:40.300 --> 01:12:49.080 One anecdotal story here involved a guy who I guess actually went through the E-ZPass lanes, sans transponder, 01:12:49.080 --> 01:12:56.260 and actually got away with it for about two years before they finally did something to him. 01:12:56.300 --> 01:13:02.620 They basically sent him a ticket with a fine, and he got fined something like, I don't know, say $150. 01:13:02.620 --> 01:13:13.780 And if I recall, the guy was actually on the news media when this happened, and he basically said that, yeah, he got fined $150, 01:13:14.500 --> 01:13:23.000 but he figured by cheating the system, he probably saved about $1,000 in tolls. 01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:25.800 Exactly. That's well worth it, $150 for two years. 01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:32.740 So he said he was more than willing to pay the $150 fine instead of having to pay the $1,000 in tolls. 01:13:33.020 --> 01:13:37.300 But we're not encouraging anyone to go try that. That was probably an anomaly. 01:13:38.040 --> 01:13:40.980 Well, you know, I look at toll roads this way. 01:13:40.980 --> 01:13:52.400 As long as the money that's being collected in tolls is actually going to maintaining a road, and it actually has a, you know, the road is actually decent. 01:13:52.400 --> 01:13:55.720 And up here in New England, we have some roads that are pretty cruddy. 01:13:56.600 --> 01:14:05.580 So as long as it's being done to maintain, you know, properly maintain the road system so you have a nice road to, you know, to drive on, that's fine. 01:14:05.620 --> 01:14:14.420 If they're going to start taking the tolls and, you know, putting them in some general fund for, you know, state legislature boondoggles or whatever. 01:14:14.920 --> 01:14:20.640 Well, as long as we're going this direction, let's take a minute and talk about that because, you know what, 01:14:20.640 --> 01:14:23.280 that is kind of a pet peeve of mine. 01:14:23.620 --> 01:14:24.780 It's common knowledge. 01:14:25.520 --> 01:14:31.560 And I think if you go and research, at least for SunPass in Florida, you go research, they're basically, 01:14:31.800 --> 01:14:40.360 if you might have to read through and dig down into the sites to find it, they admit toll roads have been paid for years and years ago, many times over. 01:14:41.180 --> 01:14:44.240 The money that they're making is nothing but another tax. 01:14:44.240 --> 01:14:53.060 And it's kind of annoying to me and I don't like using toll roads or pay roads because I know that that money is not going to enhance the road. 01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:56.420 That money is just another tax going to the government. 01:14:56.860 --> 01:15:01.380 However, at the same time, I like the idea of a usage tax in general. 01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:08.600 It's not fair to tax everybody and raise our taxes through the city or the state or even the federal government for that matter. 01:15:08.600 --> 01:15:12.700 I believe in less government to pay for something that I don't use. 01:15:12.820 --> 01:15:13.560 So I like the idea. 01:15:13.700 --> 01:15:16.760 Basically, this is the ultimate definition of a usage tax. 01:15:16.940 --> 01:15:19.440 If you use it, you're going to pay for it. 01:15:21.100 --> 01:15:23.200 Now, they've been paid for multiple times over. 01:15:23.300 --> 01:15:30.080 I would think at some point you would have to take the tolls down and say, okay, it's been paid for, so now everybody can use it for free or something. 01:15:30.220 --> 01:15:32.780 But I guess it's not quite that easy to do that. 01:15:32.780 --> 01:15:46.460 Massachusetts actually took down some of their tolls back in the late 1990s, but they haven't continued on to do it. 01:15:46.460 --> 01:15:56.860 But Massachusetts has its own unique problems, if anyone who's listening to this radio show should be familiar with, especially with that thing they call the Big Dig in Boston. 01:15:57.380 --> 01:15:58.560 The Big Dig? 01:15:58.620 --> 01:15:59.180 What is that? 01:15:59.180 --> 01:16:11.300 It's actually a – it was a rerouting of the highway underneath the city over by the tunnels that go out to Logan Airport in Boston. 01:16:12.260 --> 01:16:18.260 And apparently the contractor that did it was substandard in his construction. 01:16:18.260 --> 01:16:26.200 And after it's been – even though it's a, you know, brand-new construction, it's subject to frequent leaks. 01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:33.780 And in one instance, an actual hunk of concrete that was the ceiling fell on a couple of cars at one point. 01:16:34.220 --> 01:16:34.320 Oh, that's minor. 01:16:34.320 --> 01:16:34.840 That's minor. 01:16:35.240 --> 01:16:37.460 You just throw a little spackle and fix that right up. 01:16:37.940 --> 01:16:38.340 Yeah. 01:16:38.820 --> 01:16:40.000 And get some duct tape. 01:16:40.160 --> 01:16:40.400 Yeah. 01:16:40.700 --> 01:16:41.660 That's nothing to that. 01:16:41.780 --> 01:16:42.380 That's – 01:16:42.380 --> 01:16:46.400 Well, I tell you what, we've got about ten minutes maybe. 01:16:47.400 --> 01:16:48.600 So let's see here. 01:16:48.680 --> 01:16:57.900 Since we're kind of talking about some of the social and maybe bordering on political, privacy implications might be something to bring up too. 01:16:57.900 --> 01:17:12.820 Because I have noticed here on the turnpike in Florida and some other payrolls that along the way – like obviously as you drive through the toll booth itself, you know that they're reading and sensing the thing because that's what they're for. 01:17:13.200 --> 01:17:21.960 But along the sides of the roads, I see other little readers or antennas along the side of the road that are also detecting, or at least I'm presuming. 01:17:21.960 --> 01:17:30.400 Obviously, I don't know what they do because I can't get out and dig them up and try to figure them out, but it's pretty obvious to me that they are checking every so often. 01:17:30.500 --> 01:17:35.120 They'll be out in the middle of a pretty much dead area where there's no electronics around. 01:17:35.240 --> 01:17:43.160 There's no – you know, it's not like it's a cell tower or any – it's a small thing on the side of the road that I think is watching the transponders. 01:17:43.260 --> 01:17:44.620 Have you ever heard anything like that? 01:17:44.620 --> 01:18:03.240 Well, there was a rumor, which we did confirm, that if you – now you have to remember, it's been common practice on all toll roads that your time – that the time you enter into the toll road is logged as well as the time you exit the toll road. 01:18:03.240 --> 01:18:12.600 Obviously, if you're going, say, you know, 60 miles and you get there in an hour, you've been doing about 60 miles an hour. 01:18:12.760 --> 01:18:22.260 And generally speaking, the speed limits on toll roads range anywhere from 55 to 65 here on the East Coast, at least here in the Northeast. 01:18:22.620 --> 01:18:24.160 Elsewhere, I think they've gone up to 70. 01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:27.980 So if you're doing 60 miles an hour, they're not going to bother you. 01:18:27.980 --> 01:18:36.960 However, if all of a sudden you wind up doing that 60 miles in, say, 30 minutes, that means your average speed was 120 miles an hour. 01:18:37.600 --> 01:18:43.660 And when you get off the toll road, you will more likely than not find yourself the recipient of a fast driving award. 01:18:44.340 --> 01:18:46.360 Yeah, is that the polite term for it? 01:18:46.900 --> 01:18:48.400 Yes, fast driving award. 01:18:48.480 --> 01:18:49.340 Fast driving award. 01:18:49.340 --> 01:18:57.460 Now, this can also be done with, you know, with the AVI systems in a similar manner. 01:18:57.980 --> 01:19:13.420 If you have an AVI system at, say, mile marker 3 on a highway and another AVI reader at mile marker 4, it can actually measure your, you know, your time. 01:19:13.960 --> 01:19:22.340 And let's say you go between those two markers in the course of 60 seconds while you're doing a mile a minute or 60 miles an hour. 01:19:22.340 --> 01:19:32.260 If you go through a little faster, then, well, you know, if you get through in 30 seconds, you're now at that, you know, magic speed of 120 miles an hour. 01:19:32.540 --> 01:19:35.520 And poof, the fast driving award shows up in the mail. 01:19:35.520 --> 01:19:48.200 Now, when we did the research back in the late 90s on the E-ZPass, we actually, as I said before, all the reader locations are licensed because this thing emits RF energy. 01:19:48.340 --> 01:19:54.540 And it emits it at, you know, a pretty good level in order for that thing, you know, to wake up and kick back. 01:19:55.120 --> 01:19:59.800 Where they say the signal strength had to be 500 millivolts at the transponder. 01:19:59.800 --> 01:20:04.640 So that's a pretty good amount of RF that's coming out of that antenna at you. 01:20:05.100 --> 01:20:09.600 That has to be licensed under the appropriate FCC, you know, reg. 01:20:10.080 --> 01:20:16.040 And those locations are available on the, you know, FCC, Wireless Telecommunications Bureau website. 01:20:18.360 --> 01:20:28.480 We did find back in the, you know, 1990s when we did this article that there were some reader locations 01:20:28.480 --> 01:20:32.240 that did not appear to be at an exit. 01:20:32.240 --> 01:20:41.920 And actually, if you go and look at some of the project reports that are being used for ITS systems, 01:20:42.500 --> 01:20:56.420 they actually even specifically mentioned the use of AVI systems, EasyPass, for monitoring traffic flow. 01:20:56.420 --> 01:21:05.120 Now, ostentantly, they'd like you to believe that this is, that that's supposed to enable them to detect 01:21:05.120 --> 01:21:09.900 when there's a traffic jam somewhere, when traffic is stopped or slowed down. 01:21:10.560 --> 01:21:12.600 But it's one of those, you know, dual-use things. 01:21:13.060 --> 01:21:18.200 Obviously, if it can detect when traffic is moving slower than normal, you know, 01:21:18.240 --> 01:21:22.960 or particularly when a particular transponder is going slower than normal, 01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:26.360 it can also tell when a transponder is going faster than normal. 01:21:26.760 --> 01:21:27.200 Right. 01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:29.180 So it's very real. 01:21:29.240 --> 01:21:38.920 It's absolutely 100% undeniably possible, possible now, that you, let's say you're doing, 01:21:39.060 --> 01:21:43.940 not 120, let's say you're doing 80 through the whole trip on a 65 mile mile road. 01:21:44.660 --> 01:21:45.640 Doing 80 the whole trip. 01:21:45.860 --> 01:21:47.960 You can come up to that final toll road. 01:21:48.080 --> 01:21:49.540 You've dodged cops the whole way. 01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:50.660 No one's caught you or whatever. 01:21:50.660 --> 01:21:54.480 As soon as you go through that toll, not only is there a unique identifier, 01:21:54.640 --> 01:21:58.780 but there's obviously a time stamp on there, which is what we're getting at, in case we weren't clear. 01:21:59.320 --> 01:22:04.760 And that time stamp, compared to when you left, they can tell how long you were on between those two points 01:22:04.760 --> 01:22:09.140 and thereby calculate, they know the distance, obviously, and the times you got on. 01:22:09.200 --> 01:22:11.300 They can therefore calculate the speed that you're going. 01:22:11.380 --> 01:22:14.580 So you may very well go through that toll road, the final toll. 01:22:15.060 --> 01:22:17.360 Yeah, you got money on your account, but that's not an issue. 01:22:17.360 --> 01:22:23.320 They've got you clocked, basically, doing above the speed limit. 01:22:23.520 --> 01:22:28.920 And they could absolutely start doing that and enforcing that if they really wanted to. 01:22:29.300 --> 01:22:32.580 Apparently, the New York State Thruy Authority has been doing that. 01:22:32.780 --> 01:22:39.740 Now, again, this research I did was during the 1990s, so they might have passed a law or changed their policy. 01:22:39.740 --> 01:22:48.760 But, again, as everyone's aware of, speed limits and speeding tickets are essentially a revenue-generating measure for a state. 01:22:49.200 --> 01:22:49.560 Right. 01:22:49.900 --> 01:22:52.780 And they generally don't like to give up their revenue generators. 01:22:53.180 --> 01:22:54.140 Exactly, exactly. 01:22:54.260 --> 01:22:55.660 And also, what about this? 01:22:55.740 --> 01:23:01.520 Tell me, and this is definitely a question for you, is that what kind of speed do you think we're talking about on this? 01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:10.560 Do you think, let's say, that enough privacy advocates could put some laws on the books that they're not allowed to use this to look for speeders, 01:23:10.620 --> 01:23:13.880 to issue ticket citations for speeding or fast driving awards. 01:23:13.880 --> 01:23:19.680 Is it possible that they could actually relay information fast enough? 01:23:19.980 --> 01:23:24.260 Let's say you go through two checkpoints along the way, and it does detect you're doing 120. 01:23:25.040 --> 01:23:33.940 Is it fast enough RF technology and the way these things probably work to relay that information back to the central database system 01:23:33.940 --> 01:23:39.800 and then relay that information to an officer that's patrolling that area to have them come look for you? 01:23:39.800 --> 01:23:50.500 The technology does exist, and at this point, with the current state of development of ITS systems, it's in place and being implemented. 01:23:51.460 --> 01:23:54.940 So, it's entirely possible that they could do that. 01:23:57.180 --> 01:23:59.760 So, moral of this is be careful. 01:24:00.080 --> 01:24:07.900 I mean, when you start getting into the whole thing of ITS, all right, that starts falling into critical infrastructure protection. 01:24:07.900 --> 01:24:12.920 And back in the 90s, there weren't very many people, you know, talking about it. 01:24:13.820 --> 01:24:31.940 However, now post-9-11, and since we are coming up on the anniversary, the entire threat of terrorism has enabled them to institute a whole lot of these, you know, surveillance measures under, you know, the catch-all term of homeland security. 01:24:31.940 --> 01:24:34.780 Right, and you know what, it's critical infrastructure. 01:24:34.960 --> 01:24:45.020 The also very real possibility is that they may have people that they're keeping tabs on, and they can track where they're going at all times based on that transponder. 01:24:45.140 --> 01:24:46.200 They can tell where they're traveling. 01:24:46.320 --> 01:24:47.560 They can watch somewhere they're going. 01:24:48.780 --> 01:24:56.940 There's a lot of privacy implications to this, and I guess we definitely, as we're running out of time here on the show, we probably can't go into that. 01:24:56.940 --> 01:25:04.280 But, let's see, a couple things we might want to mention before we close out of here, because we've only got a few minutes left. 01:25:05.520 --> 01:25:10.680 First of all, it always comes up when we talk about these tolls of the camera and the license plate as you're leaving. 01:25:10.820 --> 01:25:16.720 There's all these tricks and stuff out there of tricking the cameras, blocking it so they can't see your driver's license, et cetera, et cetera. 01:25:16.720 --> 01:25:34.380 On episode 196 with Enigma, we talked about a lot of those, and Mythbusters has done a couple episodes of the TV show Mythbusters and proven that they took all of the supposed ways of stopping that, and none of them were remotely successful. 01:25:34.680 --> 01:25:38.980 So, don't count on fooling or tricking the system. 01:25:38.980 --> 01:25:41.460 Let's see. 01:25:42.160 --> 01:25:51.320 Well, back in the, you know, about 15 years ago, I actually had the opportunity to experiment with some of those, you know, license plate recognition systems. 01:25:52.100 --> 01:25:58.560 And it was hardly state-of-the-art equipment back then, because it was being used, you know, for a customer of mine. 01:25:58.560 --> 01:26:09.640 However, back at that point, we were able to achieve about 80% to 85% accuracy with early 1990s technology. 01:26:10.300 --> 01:26:15.860 I would imagine now that they've gotten a lot better with license plate recognition. 01:26:16.580 --> 01:26:25.340 And, of course, if you've noticed, a lot of states have been changing their license plate designs to allow for more contrast. 01:26:25.600 --> 01:26:26.680 Right, readability. 01:26:26.680 --> 01:26:56.120 Yeah, readability, and the only thing I'm going to say with that is, as an experiment, some of our readers may want to flash a near-infrared LED array at their camera while watching it with, or, excuse me, flash a near-infrared LED array at their license plate while watching it with a CCD camera. 01:26:57.400 --> 01:26:59.600 It would be very, very interesting. 01:27:00.320 --> 01:27:10.340 Of course, we're talking about doing this in a controlled environment, because, at least in the state of Florida, that's specifically listed as an illegal thing to have any kind of light around your license plate. 01:27:10.460 --> 01:27:13.120 But we're just talking hypothetically here, theoretically. 01:27:13.120 --> 01:27:15.420 Well, I'm not talking putting it on your license plate. 01:27:15.500 --> 01:27:26.100 I'm talking when your car is parked in your driveway, take an IRL-ED array and shine it on your license plate and look at the results with a CCD camera. 01:27:26.100 --> 01:27:29.340 All right, there we go. 01:27:29.340 --> 01:27:32.480 So, let's see, anything else before we close out? 01:27:32.480 --> 01:27:40.620 We don't have time and probably would take some more research to go into where that data goes to that back-end database. 01:27:40.740 --> 01:27:41.360 Is it encrypted? 01:27:41.540 --> 01:27:42.420 How is it transported? 01:27:42.620 --> 01:27:44.420 How, who has access to it? 01:27:44.460 --> 01:27:48.640 And does it get sent outside of the traffic control system somewhere else? 01:27:48.640 --> 01:27:51.520 Do the totals get sent to other places? 01:27:51.620 --> 01:27:52.980 How do they communicate with the banks? 01:27:53.100 --> 01:27:54.420 Is all that encrypted and safe? 01:27:54.780 --> 01:27:57.100 That's, you know, something to think about in question. 01:27:58.440 --> 01:28:01.060 Cooperation between systems, we kind of talked about earlier. 01:28:01.060 --> 01:28:06.060 Let's see, oh, stolen or lost transponders. 01:28:06.920 --> 01:28:13.080 That's kind of important because some people could be driving around using your transponder and it's tied to your account, etc., etc. 01:28:13.220 --> 01:28:21.200 And if it's got money on it or it refills automatically from your account, then they're never going to get caught because the camera's never going to take their license plate. 01:28:21.340 --> 01:28:22.780 So, you've got to cancel that right away. 01:28:22.820 --> 01:28:24.040 That's a very dangerous thing. 01:28:24.800 --> 01:28:29.960 And if someone's actually dumb enough to use it at that point, then they will get caught because it'll take a picture of their license plate 01:28:29.960 --> 01:28:32.080 unless they've also put a fake license plate on there. 01:28:32.220 --> 01:28:34.040 But that's another topic. 01:28:36.120 --> 01:28:39.420 And let's see, I've got this little story I can tell here. 01:28:39.500 --> 01:28:41.700 Did you have anything else before we kind of close out? 01:28:42.480 --> 01:28:43.260 No, I'm good. 01:28:44.540 --> 01:28:47.060 There is one Florida trick that I've heard. 01:28:48.980 --> 01:28:53.360 Some of the toll roads in Florida, and I'm sure many other states use the old ticketing system. 01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:58.740 That is, you enter a toll road and you'll take a ticket, and the ticket has a time stamp on it. 01:28:58.740 --> 01:29:06.120 And it says the name of the toll or the name of the exit or on-ramp or whatever where you got that ticket, where on the road you picked it up. 01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:11.760 And then when you get to the other end of the road, you hand that ticket to someone who looks at it and says, 01:29:11.880 --> 01:29:17.180 okay, you traveled X number of miles or X number of exits, and here's what your appropriate toll charge is, and you pay them. 01:29:17.700 --> 01:29:18.680 That's the old school. 01:29:18.780 --> 01:29:20.180 That's the analog way to do that. 01:29:20.260 --> 01:29:21.900 That's the old original system. 01:29:21.900 --> 01:29:28.180 Well, with the SunPass, like we just talked about, that's all computerized, it's all electronic, automated. 01:29:28.960 --> 01:29:32.360 Well, there's an interesting little flaw in that. 01:29:32.440 --> 01:29:34.700 What happens when these two worlds collide? 01:29:35.860 --> 01:29:44.740 Well, again, I've heard, quote, unquote, heard that there was a little bit of a flaw in the system that would allow you to get on that toll road. 01:29:44.740 --> 01:29:49.240 As a normal non-SunPass user, you grab a ticket. 01:29:49.920 --> 01:29:54.780 All you really had to do here, and the newer models won't allow you to do this because they're completely sealed, 01:29:55.100 --> 01:30:01.220 the old models came with a little thing on the back that you could change the battery out. 01:30:01.840 --> 01:30:05.100 Well, what you could do is take the battery out of your device. 01:30:05.100 --> 01:30:13.820 Also, the devices come with an anti-static bag that you can put it in that will also shield it from being read by the antennas in these systems. 01:30:14.360 --> 01:30:20.600 Just the point being, don't let it see your SunPass when you get on so that they don't know where you ever got on. 01:30:20.700 --> 01:30:25.520 Just drive through as though you're a normal user and take your ticket and go the analog way. 01:30:26.540 --> 01:30:31.200 Keep your system in the bag or keep the battery out of it until you get all the way to your final destination, 01:30:31.200 --> 01:30:38.760 and just before you go through that last toll road, then you pop your battery back in or you take it out of your anti-static bag, 01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:45.540 and instead of handing in that ticket and paying the full $20 or whatever it is for your journey, 01:30:46.140 --> 01:30:49.660 drive through that SunPass lane or the EasyPass lane. 01:30:50.340 --> 01:30:56.260 Now, what used to happen, I'm saying this up front, it's already this flaw has been fixed, 01:30:56.260 --> 01:31:02.660 but what used to happen is they didn't know where you got on the toll road, 01:31:02.760 --> 01:31:06.060 so they couldn't really calculate how much to charge you 01:31:06.060 --> 01:31:11.700 because it was very possible that it didn't read your reader when it got on for legitimate reasons. 01:31:11.960 --> 01:31:17.320 Maybe there was a packet collision or something, an RF collision in the air, any number of reasons. 01:31:17.320 --> 01:31:21.820 So what they would do would charge you the minimum amount instead of the normal $20, 01:31:22.120 --> 01:31:25.280 so you get $1.25 for that whole trip instead of paying the $20. 01:31:25.280 --> 01:31:28.920 Now, that loophole again has been fixed. 01:31:30.240 --> 01:31:32.140 Now, what it actually does is the opposite. 01:31:32.280 --> 01:31:36.940 It charges you the maximum amount because it doesn't have an entry point on file, 01:31:37.040 --> 01:31:41.020 so they started charging the maximum because what Tom said earlier, they want their money. 01:31:41.200 --> 01:31:45.060 It's a source of revenue, so they finally closed that loophole. 01:31:45.380 --> 01:31:48.320 And I did some reading about this, and I had never heard of it before. 01:31:48.320 --> 01:31:56.540 It was kind of a trick that people used for years, I can carefully say that, before it was fixed. 01:31:57.320 --> 01:32:01.720 And actually, that trick came from Mr. Vitek, a good friend of the show. 01:32:01.720 --> 01:32:07.300 So I did some reading on it after the fact, and I found out that there's actually a label. 01:32:07.540 --> 01:32:09.100 It's a term that's been tied to this. 01:32:09.180 --> 01:32:15.400 It's called an orphan exit or an orphan entrance where people are complaining that they're charged the maximum amount 01:32:15.400 --> 01:32:17.260 or higher amount because they got on the road to somewhere, 01:32:17.360 --> 01:32:19.760 and it was not detected properly when they got on the road. 01:32:19.760 --> 01:32:22.020 So, again, be careful of that. 01:32:22.120 --> 01:32:26.060 It worked in Florida for many years, but now it charges the maximum, so it could work one way or the other. 01:32:26.140 --> 01:32:28.180 You might want to do some experimentation or checking. 01:32:28.720 --> 01:32:35.620 But orphan entrance are interesting because when people get on the system but aren't detected leaving the system, 01:32:36.080 --> 01:32:37.580 in essence, you're driving for free. 01:32:38.040 --> 01:32:40.560 It detects you getting on, but it never knows where you got off. 01:32:41.380 --> 01:32:43.160 Now, you've got to be careful with those. 01:32:43.280 --> 01:32:44.340 Again, how does that work? 01:32:44.400 --> 01:32:45.060 How can that happen? 01:32:45.060 --> 01:32:46.740 You have to do a little research on your own. 01:32:46.740 --> 01:32:49.700 Go and do a search for orphan entrance and do some reading. 01:32:49.820 --> 01:32:51.440 You might find some tricks there. 01:32:52.540 --> 01:32:55.300 Again, we're actually over time, but I don't care. 01:32:55.380 --> 01:32:59.000 It was a pretty good show, and people will just have to cut the closing music short, I guess. 01:32:59.740 --> 01:33:01.000 Is there anything else you wanted to mention? 01:33:01.120 --> 01:33:02.340 I know we went kind of fast. 01:33:02.460 --> 01:33:04.220 Did we do the topic justice, do you think? 01:33:05.020 --> 01:33:05.860 I think so. 01:33:06.080 --> 01:33:06.560 I mean, I'm certain. 01:33:06.560 --> 01:33:12.880 You can go into a lot of details on how AVI and ETTM systems work. 01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:17.540 However, there have been articles that appeared on the Internet. 01:33:19.340 --> 01:33:25.620 There was a very, very good overview on some of the more surveillance-related aspects of ITS. 01:33:25.760 --> 01:33:32.780 That was in, I believe, either issue 22 or 23 of Fantasy, the IIRG's official newsletter. 01:33:32.780 --> 01:33:44.160 I know there was an article in 2600, and I don't have the exact issue, which discussed, you know, 01:33:44.180 --> 01:33:46.080 EZPass and the AVI systems. 01:33:46.920 --> 01:33:48.780 And there's a host of information. 01:33:48.780 --> 01:33:58.440 If you do a Google search on those terms, AVI, ITS, ETTM, you will find a whole bunch of information, 01:33:58.660 --> 01:34:04.240 projects that are being worked on, studies of already completed projects. 01:34:05.580 --> 01:34:07.100 Yeah, the whole nine yards is up there. 01:34:07.240 --> 01:34:11.120 Yeah, the possibility of jamming that frequency and what would happen. 01:34:11.120 --> 01:34:15.740 And, yeah, there's a whole lot of stuff we probably could have gone into something on. 01:34:15.800 --> 01:34:19.120 But, you know what, we'll leave that for the studious hacker to follow up on on their own. 01:34:19.980 --> 01:34:21.040 Do your own research. 01:34:21.280 --> 01:34:22.640 I mean, that's the best way to learn. 01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:25.120 You know, they haven't changed a lot, though. 01:34:25.140 --> 01:34:27.020 Get out there and get your hands dirty, so to speak. 01:34:27.220 --> 01:34:32.500 Yeah, and the technology hasn't changed a lot since you had done the research back in the late 90s. 01:34:32.640 --> 01:34:35.180 You know, it's still most of it's in place and still the same today. 01:34:35.760 --> 01:34:36.960 The government has a tendency. 01:34:36.960 --> 01:34:42.560 These large companies, large government agencies have a tendency to grasp on to it. 01:34:42.760 --> 01:34:45.020 Well, now it's just called by a different name. 01:34:45.120 --> 01:34:46.140 It's called RFID. 01:34:46.700 --> 01:34:46.980 Right. 01:34:47.120 --> 01:34:49.580 Yeah, it's basically what it is. 01:34:50.580 --> 01:34:53.140 Well, I'm actually starting to get the hiccups here at the end of the show, 01:34:53.240 --> 01:34:57.900 and I'm out of my cherry Kool-Aid, my beverage of choice this episode, not my sweet iced tea. 01:34:58.480 --> 01:35:00.120 So let's close things up here. 01:35:00.440 --> 01:35:03.260 I'll go ahead and start shouts and stall for you to think for a little bit. 01:35:03.260 --> 01:35:10.420 I'll give my shouts out to Greg Conti this week and Johnny Long again, and to all the agents of the revolution. 01:35:11.280 --> 01:35:12.700 Anybody want to give some shouts out to? 01:35:13.980 --> 01:35:14.460 Yeah. 01:35:14.820 --> 01:35:27.800 I'd like to give a shout out first off to Elijah Craig, who provided a tremendous amount of assistance during this evening's talk. 01:35:27.800 --> 01:35:43.120 I'd also like to give a shout out to the IIRG and the Connecticut Survivalist Alliance, to Mercenary, Black Ice, Hank Frost, Binary, and the whole crew there. 01:35:44.540 --> 01:35:50.760 I'd like to give a shout out to Not Theory and tell him to get the freak factor back going. 01:35:50.760 --> 01:35:58.240 Or we may have to go down there and visit him and put crime-themed tape on his driveway. 01:35:58.720 --> 01:36:00.100 Yeah, sounds good. 01:36:01.700 --> 01:36:12.380 And I'd also like to give a shout out to all my fellow servicemen who are currently serving overseas. 01:36:13.900 --> 01:36:16.380 You guys rock, and I hope you get back home soon. 01:36:16.380 --> 01:36:21.540 Yep, and you know what, on this 9-11 anniversary, I wholeheartedly support and say that. 01:36:21.660 --> 01:36:25.000 You know, we make it a point on the show, and I know some people think I get corny. 01:36:25.140 --> 01:36:37.000 I always, you know, do a thing on Veterans Day, and, you know, this 9-11 anniversary, excuse me, is, you know, it's, I know it may be cliche and whatever, 01:36:37.000 --> 01:36:44.740 never forget all that kind of stuff, but really, that's, that changed the world, that changed our world in the United States, 01:36:44.820 --> 01:36:54.020 that changed our political landscape, that changed a lot of things in this country, and a lot of people have not been the same since. 01:36:54.160 --> 01:36:58.140 So, you know, a lot of people were affected by that, and I certainly will never forget. 01:36:58.140 --> 01:37:08.580 And I definitely appreciate the people that are over there fighting and getting involved in things to hopefully make our nation safer. 01:37:08.980 --> 01:37:14.980 But, you know what, just the fact that they're out there willing to do it and brave enough to do it, I have nothing but respect for that. 01:37:14.980 --> 01:37:24.100 But, and I guess on that sappy note, let's close up, let's see, hosting for Binary Revolution Radio is provided by caro.net. 01:37:24.700 --> 01:37:29.260 They've been good to us, and we have a nice, fast server through them, so thanks to them. 01:37:29.260 --> 01:37:33.260 Our site of the week, as I mentioned earlier in the email, is linkpot.net. 01:37:33.880 --> 01:37:39.500 That's L-I-N-K-P-O-T dot net, and it just works just as it was advertised. 01:37:39.500 --> 01:37:48.960 Instead of giving you a random numbers and letters like tiny URL, it generated a word when I tested it, so all letters, and actually it was a dictionary word. 01:37:49.060 --> 01:37:53.720 I don't know how many of those it has, but you might have to do some brute forcing and test that. 01:37:54.220 --> 01:38:01.660 If you have any feedback of any kind on this week's episode or any episode of the show, you can email us radio at binrev.com, 01:38:01.740 --> 01:38:07.240 and I will make sure that Tom from New England here gets it if it's directed at him. 01:38:07.240 --> 01:38:12.240 And our closing music this week is from Hormones, featuring MC Frontalot. 01:38:12.860 --> 01:38:20.980 It's called Mecca Mechanics, and that is going to do it for this oversized episode of Binary Revolution Radio, episode 199. 01:38:21.300 --> 01:38:26.560 Ladies and gentlemen, next week, not next week, probably a month or so, I'll announce it in the forums and all over the site. 01:38:27.120 --> 01:38:29.960 Episode number 200 of the show, do not miss it. 01:38:30.040 --> 01:38:32.440 I promise you, you will not want to miss the show. 01:38:32.440 --> 01:38:38.180 So, but for this week, Tom, thank you for being on the show. 01:38:38.820 --> 01:38:39.320 I appreciate it. 01:38:39.320 --> 01:38:40.160 Thank you for having me. 01:38:40.260 --> 01:38:48.200 And you and I are definitely going to get together and do some other projects and do some follow-up, some other shows and some other things. 01:38:48.380 --> 01:38:52.060 But until then, we will tell everybody that we will see them next episode. 01:38:52.060 --> 01:38:54.380 Same Hack Time. 01:38:55.380 --> 01:38:56.320 Same Hack Channel. 01:38:56.320 --> 01:39:01.000 Check your size, McGrath, because here I come. 01:39:01.200 --> 01:39:04.320 If political power comes from the barrel of a gun, then I should rule the world. 01:39:04.580 --> 01:39:05.200 Simple, really. 01:39:05.420 --> 01:39:07.480 Twenty-five stories up, who's going to mess with me? 01:39:07.520 --> 01:39:08.960 Plus, my joystick skills are silly. 01:39:09.240 --> 01:39:10.720 So, armor, piss, and riles never hit me. 01:39:10.960 --> 01:39:12.160 Who shot down Flight 93? 01:39:12.320 --> 01:39:12.940 Yeah, that was me. 01:39:12.980 --> 01:39:14.740 I fight terrorism when my time is free. 01:39:14.980 --> 01:39:16.480 I tell armor always first to beat. 01:39:16.760 --> 01:39:17.840 Nina Purpleton lied. 01:39:17.920 --> 01:39:20.360 I designed Gundam GPO-2 and GPO-3. 01:39:20.500 --> 01:39:22.940 I just thought she was cute, so I let her keep the royalties. 01:39:22.940 --> 01:39:25.520 My package is the president's system for missile defense. 01:39:25.520 --> 01:39:27.580 Nupia engineers are all my best friends. 01:39:27.700 --> 01:39:29.180 Never mind what the gas mileage is. 01:39:29.260 --> 01:39:31.860 Giant robot overcompensating for my undersized paychecks. 01:39:31.940 --> 01:39:33.580 See me on TV with news life on my chest. 01:39:33.700 --> 01:39:35.520 I always told my mom I would make it big. 01:39:35.760 --> 01:39:37.620 Yeah, I'm still not, but my robot is. 01:39:37.860 --> 01:39:39.740 Always told my mom I would make it big. 01:39:39.960 --> 01:39:41.900 Yeah, I'm still not, but my robot is. 01:39:42.080 --> 01:39:43.940 Always told my mom I would make it big. 01:39:44.200 --> 01:39:46.080 Yeah, I'm still not, but my robot is. 01:39:46.380 --> 01:39:48.160 Always told my mom I would make it big. 01:39:48.340 --> 01:39:50.340 Yeah, I'm still not, but my robot is. 01:39:50.340 --> 01:39:59.340 Yeah, it's unbelievable 01:39:59.340 --> 01:40:01.700 To want to see the full scope of the mechanism 01:40:01.700 --> 01:40:03.420 Cause you got skilletism, but I promise 01:40:03.420 --> 01:40:04.920 Ain't no kind of magic involved 01:40:04.920 --> 01:40:06.840 Geared to the piston, problem solved 01:40:06.840 --> 01:40:08.480 An automaton walk in stride 01:40:08.480 --> 01:40:09.260 Like a city block 01:40:09.260 --> 01:40:11.260 Shoulder pop the missile block 01:40:11.260 --> 01:40:12.080 It's a lock 01:40:12.080 --> 01:40:13.760 Pattern at the target I choose 01:40:13.760 --> 01:40:14.980 Clouds on impact 01:40:14.980 --> 01:40:16.500 Mushrooms, jets that zooms 01:40:16.500 --> 01:40:17.500 And cake treads rolling 01:40:17.500 --> 01:40:19.660 These gnats and ants can't disrupt the strolling 01:40:19.660 --> 01:40:21.540 Poling the citizens, you want me to stop? 01:40:21.660 --> 01:40:23.760 City Hall still staying from Stank's robot 01:40:23.760 --> 01:40:26.000 Flank so far, we tighten your muscle 01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:27.380 Trying to chisel on the jostle 01:40:27.380 --> 01:40:28.180 Let's bustle 01:40:28.180 --> 01:40:29.640 Thrust you back in the ocean 01:40:29.640 --> 01:40:30.100 Buh-bye 01:40:30.100 --> 01:40:32.360 Rocket fist to flip it digit up high 01:40:32.360 --> 01:40:33.900 Ha ha ha 01:40:33.900 --> 01:40:36.120 I will land on the far side of town 01:40:36.120 --> 01:40:38.640 Where the heroes cannot stop me 01:40:38.640 --> 01:40:40.320 For they do not know how to get here 01:40:40.320 --> 01:40:41.440 But when the smoke cleared 01:40:41.440 --> 01:40:43.520 Here I stand in the middle of your city street 01:40:43.520 --> 01:40:45.680 Warning tyrants keeping pedestrians up off on my feet 01:40:45.680 --> 01:40:47.480 Don't try on vacation, but there's a road beam 01:40:47.480 --> 01:40:49.520 Be right, one shot kills only 01:40:49.520 --> 01:40:51.000 Sees a future with a zero system 01:40:51.000 --> 01:40:52.300 So no trap can hold me 01:40:52.300 --> 01:40:53.820 Plus I got nuclear bazookas 01:40:53.820 --> 01:40:54.800 For fighting whole armies 01:40:54.800 --> 01:40:57.240 I'll be a legend by the time we have space colonies 01:40:57.240 --> 01:40:58.040 Shouting Zig Zee 01:40:58.040 --> 01:40:59.580 I'm way back in 0073 01:40:59.580 --> 01:41:02.100 Throwback like the Zaku and the tall geese 01:41:02.100 --> 01:41:03.400 Megazord is like Robin Carter 01:41:03.400 --> 01:41:04.460 So look what he taught me 01:41:04.460 --> 01:41:05.380 Show up out of nowhere 01:41:05.380 --> 01:41:06.040 To save the day 01:41:06.040 --> 01:41:06.740 That's all me 01:41:06.740 --> 01:41:08.700 I always told my mom I would make it big 01:41:08.700 --> 01:41:10.840 Yeah I'm still not for my who I is 01:41:10.840 --> 01:41:13.020 Always told my mom I would make it big 01:41:13.020 --> 01:41:15.080 Yeah I'm still not for my who I is 01:41:15.080 --> 01:41:17.160 Always told my mom I would make it big 01:41:17.160 --> 01:41:19.300 Yeah, I'm still not for my what I is 01:41:19.300 --> 01:41:21.380 Always told my mom I would make it big 01:41:21.380 --> 01:41:23.540 Yeah, I'm still not for my what I is 01:41:45.080 --> 01:42:15.060 Always told my mom I would make it big