WEBVTT

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Get ready to rock the planet.

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Get ready.

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The Digital Dog Pound presents Binary Revolution Radio.

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Now let's go.

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Get ready to rock the planet.

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Get the planet.

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Back the system.

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Back this community side.

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Get ready to act the planet

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Act the planet

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Act the system

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Act us unite

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Get ready

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Get ready

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Act the system

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Act the system

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Act the system

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Act us unite

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Act us unite

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Now act the planet

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Now act the system

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Act us unite

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Get ready to act the system

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Get ready to act the planet

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Act the planet

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Get ready

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Act the planet

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Act the planet

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Act the planet

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Act the planet

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Act the planet

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Act the planet

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Act the planet

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Act the planet

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Act the planet

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Act the planet

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You are listening to binary revolution radio

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The revolution will be digitized

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Act the planet

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This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers

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To the hackers and the crackers

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I see in binary

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I speak source code

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Step on my toes

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I'll post a million

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M.J.

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the

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Angel

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Arashi

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Convert

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Cause I'm riding the net in my 6'4

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I was a dick with my 56

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Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable

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On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo

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On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero

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In a flash, I'll sue you on burning DreamTax

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You need some ISO? Let me do my hard drive rifle

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Our exchange, you would never stifle

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In a digital hood, you just caught the love bug

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I bootlegged your CD, I caught the fight between Un and Jay-Z

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Your CG, it's all gonna be free

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Whether we take it by force or we take it night free

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You feel that rattle in your bones?

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When I tell you we just hacked out Jones

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And NASDAQ, we just caught on your back

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Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack

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Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crew

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Serial phone, sword, soul, and I'm so red

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack

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Hello once again everyone and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio

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Episode number...

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Wow, I think I just made the microphone go ape shit with that little drum roll

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But episode number 200 of Binary Revolution Radio

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We made it through 200

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Okay, well, we made it through 200 episodes

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I don't know if they're all solid, good episodes

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But we made it to 200

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And we're calling this the end of our fourth year here

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We missed a few episodes this year for the first time ever

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But 200 episodes in, we are going to call this the end of season four

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And this episode is actually airing originally on October 30th, 2007

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Same hack time, same hack channel as always

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And I gotta get that up front for a particular reason tonight

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We got a lot of things to talk about

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We got a lot of announcements

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A lot of closing stuff to talk about in the end of the show as well

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And we actually had some trouble naming this episode

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Coming up with a title on the archive page

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We always put a title for the show that's descriptive of the content of said show

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And, you know, we could have gone real easy with this

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And just called it season four

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Or, you know, anniversary or something like that

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But, my co-host to start off the show tonight

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Not Theory

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Not Theory, you're on the line?

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I am here

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Kind of

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And I'm amazed that we made it to 200 episodes

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Even though it took a little longer than four years

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Yeah, well, we're going to call it

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We're going to call it four years

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And pretend that everybody's okay with that

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That's cool

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But, yeah, actually

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We have a very, very, very big announcement on this show

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And I'm actually not going to wait until the end

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I'm not going to cock-tease you or anything

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By the way, this episode is definitely not safe for work

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So, sorry about that

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If you're hoping for a nice end of season four episode

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That's all nice and bunnies and flowers

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And Bambi running through the field

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That's not going to happen

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Nice catch after you say that the show is not going to be a cock-tease

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I know

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I know, that's nice

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I had to catch it

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You know what?

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There are warnings all over the page and everything anyway

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But, the reason I say this episode was kind of tricky to come up with a title for

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Is directly related to our announcement that we're going to open up the show with

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Some of the titles that we tried to come up with, for example, was

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Jump the Shark

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I had a brainstorm, I had a list of different things

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Jump the Shark

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Did BinRev Radio jump the shark?

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Are we, you know, do we pull a Fonzie and jump over the shark

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And the, wearing the leather jacket and everything or what?

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I don't think so

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I think we have to go a lot

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We have to do a lot of things wrong in order to get that official title

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Yeah, we're, well we've done a lot of things wrong, I'm sure

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I don't know if we've gone that far yet

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You know what?

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But we started out doing things wrong and we kept doing them wrong

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So it's not like we've changed

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We still, still do everything wrong

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At least we consistently sucked, is that what you're saying?

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I think that's pretty much what I'm trying to get to

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Hey, I'm actually changing it up tonight

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I do not have my sweet iced tea with me tonight

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I had, actually I just finished off an RC Cola

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And now I'm having a Yoo-Hoo chocolate drink

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So, because actually

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This is going to be a very long episode tonight

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This episode 200 is actually going to be

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It looks like probably five plus hours

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Depending on how things go

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So I guess we'll see how that shakes out

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But ladies and gentlemen

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Get comfortable, get some popcorn

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Hit pause, go get a drink

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Go shake some dew off the lily

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Or listen to this in the bathroom

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Where you just don't have to get up at all

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That'll work too

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Won't be the first time

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We've recorded them there

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So why not listen to them there?

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Yeah, we definitely have

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As scary as that is

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Let's see

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How about End of Transmission?

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Is that a good name for this episode?

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I don't know

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I want something more techie

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Techie?

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Like, you know what?

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My favorite right now

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My front runner is just No Carrier

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No Carrier

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I'm kind of with that one too

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Yeah, I'm kind of leaning towards that

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That, of course, being from the old-fashioned

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Well, I guess it's not necessarily old-fashioned

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Is it the old modem standard error message?

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I don't know

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I'd say that's pretty old-fashioned

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I don't really know

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You know what?

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People do still have dial-ups

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Right

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But those people don't matter in the world

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Well, they probably would never see this error anywhere anyway

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Because it's also invisible and hidden behind the LOS

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And all that other stuff

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So

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Might not have to

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Yeah, I can't imagine

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If you're like a dial-up user in the Midwest somewhere

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And you've got Vista

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That you're going to get a message box

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That pops up

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That says No Carrier

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No Carrier

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That's probably some nice rounded corners message

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That says

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Your internet service provider is hung up on you

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Good here

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Well, the second

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The number two on my list of titles for this episode was EOF

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Now, is there enough significance to EOF?

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Or is that just the programmers are going to get that?

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Or maybe data

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It's not even a database thing, really

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It's just end of file

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I mean, are people going to get that?

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Would they get that if we called it show EOF?

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Yeah, kind of

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End of file doesn't mean like something's gone wrong

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And the connection is broken

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It could just be the end of file

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I think Lost Carrier

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Or No Carrier

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Makes more sense

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Well

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End of file

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Or the other obvious episode

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Title for this episode

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Was The End

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Question mark

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And in case it's not abundantly clear by now

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From the names of these titles

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Maybe that's a good way to lead into our big announcement

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That episode 200 is not only the end of season 4

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Of Binary Revolution Radio

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But episode number 200

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Is the final episode of Binary Revolution Radio

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Ladies and gentlemen, this is it

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This is all you get

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I think by

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No!

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Come on!

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I think after 4 years, 200 episodes

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I think BINREV Radio has run its course

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I don't know if we've jumped the shark

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I don't know if we've sold out

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I don't know if we've dropped the ball

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Fumbled

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Or whatever the case may be

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But the bottom line is that

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Frankly

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It takes so much time to do this show

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And we'll probably bring that up

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At some point during the show later on

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It's going to come into play

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But it just takes so much time

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And preparation for the show

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To get topics

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To get guests

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To actually record

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Edit

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And all the other assorted things

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That go along with putting together this show

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Every week for the past 4 years

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Of course lately it's been every 2 or 3 weeks

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And that's again

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For the same reasons

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Getting that time to put the show out regularly

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And there just isn't enough of it

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And so many other projects have fallen to the wayside

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And some of those are going to come back up

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In this episode as well

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So unfortunately

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This is going to be the final episode

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Of Binary Revolution Radio

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And if you're one of the listeners

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Who's hearing this on the stream

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Before everybody else

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Then you are getting an advanced sneak preview

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Of what everybody else will find out

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Once this gets added to the podcast

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So to those of you who are listening to this live on the stream

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We definitely thank you for your support

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And appreciate you listening

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But even though this is the final episode

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Of Binary Revolution Radio

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It's not a sad event

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We've had a blast during the show

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And we're going to have a blast during the show tonight

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And what we decided to do with this

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Is at the end of season 4

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We thought maybe we could do kind of a celebration

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Let's look back at what we've done

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We've been doing this for 4 years

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And we've gone through a lot over that time

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And there's a lot of things that have happened

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And both good and bad

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A lot of things that we've accomplished

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A lot of events that have taken place

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Over that time frame

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4 years is a long time

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Especially in interweb terms

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So I thought we kind of

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You know this was not really a cause for sadness

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This was a cause for celebration

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And thought maybe we could all celebrate it together

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Take a walk down memory lane

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And go back

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And kind of see what went right

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What went wrong

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What was funny

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What wasn't

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And who better to do that with

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Than of course

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Not Theory joining me

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We're going to break this show up

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Into three different parts actually

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Not Theory is going to open the show with me

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As he obviously already has

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And we're going to go through

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The first couple of seasons

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Of Binary Revolution Radio

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Do kind of a

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What did we say

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Director's commentary

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Like on the

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Yeah kind of like that

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If only we had a DVD

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Where you could switch back and forth

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And we commented on each episode

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But I don't think we have enough time

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To sit through 200 episodes

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And do that

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So this is the best we can give you

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Well and I myself

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I actually still have all of the masters

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Of every episode that I've ever recorded

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And they're big

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Each episode

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Each normal length episode

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Of about an hour and a half

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Takes up

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About 1.5 to 2 gigs

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Of space

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For the raw audio footage

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Unedited

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Unencoded

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Just the actual raw footage

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So I have most of the ones

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That I've ever recorded

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Ratchet and Strom

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Recorded theirs through audio

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Or excuse me

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Through asterisk

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Directly to MP3

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I don't think that they have

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Any intermediary files

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That might be of higher quality

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But I will check with them

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But I guess it's not completely

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Out of the question

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To maybe put together

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A high quality audio

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Or high quality collection

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On the DVD

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But yeah

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It'll be like t-shirts

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People say they want it

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And then no one actually wants them

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And I'm stuck with a whole

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I'm stuck with a whole box of them

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In my garage

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Or four boxes of them

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But anyway

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Oh yeah

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How was that

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For a little awkward moment

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Well there's probably

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Going to be quite a few

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Of those on the show

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Tonight too

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But

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Not there

14:59.980 --> 15:00.560
He's going to be with me

15:00.560 --> 15:01.500
For the first couple seasons

15:01.500 --> 15:02.160
And then

15:02.160 --> 15:03.420
Part two of the show

15:03.420 --> 15:03.840
We're going to bring

15:03.840 --> 15:04.920
Black Ratchet on

15:04.920 --> 15:05.800
Since he was an integral

15:05.800 --> 15:06.640
Part of seasons

15:06.640 --> 15:07.520
Three and four

15:07.520 --> 15:08.280
Of the show

15:08.280 --> 15:09.340
And then

15:09.340 --> 15:10.480
Get my good friend

15:10.480 --> 15:11.540
Duel Parallel on

15:11.540 --> 15:13.120
To help close the show out

15:13.120 --> 15:15.000
Duel and I

15:15.000 --> 15:15.420
Have been friends

15:15.420 --> 15:16.100
For a long time

15:16.100 --> 15:16.900
Not Theory and I

15:16.900 --> 15:18.080
And Black Ratchet and I

15:18.080 --> 15:19.200
We've all been close

15:19.200 --> 15:20.280
Good friends for a while

15:20.280 --> 15:21.820
And I'm not going to cry

15:21.820 --> 15:22.720
I'm getting verklempt

15:22.720 --> 15:24.880
I'm getting verklempt

15:24.880 --> 15:27.360
We can still play

15:27.360 --> 15:27.960
After school

15:27.960 --> 15:28.460
Don't worry

15:28.460 --> 15:28.980
Yeah

15:28.980 --> 15:29.980
No

15:29.980 --> 15:31.360
That's what I'm talking about

15:31.360 --> 15:32.460
But you know what

15:32.460 --> 15:33.400
There's going to be

15:33.400 --> 15:34.480
A couple corny moments here

15:34.480 --> 15:34.880
I'm sorry

15:34.880 --> 15:35.480
I mean it really

15:35.480 --> 15:36.100
You know

15:36.100 --> 15:37.520
I couldn't have done

15:37.520 --> 15:38.420
This show without you guys

15:38.420 --> 15:39.060
I really couldn't

15:39.060 --> 15:40.020
Everybody that's been

15:40.020 --> 15:40.700
On this show

15:40.700 --> 15:41.240
I mean

15:41.240 --> 15:42.540
I've said it before

15:42.540 --> 15:43.800
Nobody wants to hear me

15:43.800 --> 15:44.560
Nobody wants to hear

15:44.560 --> 15:45.720
My redneck ass on here

15:45.720 --> 15:46.420
Talking about

15:46.420 --> 15:47.480
You know

15:47.480 --> 15:49.280
Things that

15:49.280 --> 15:50.100
I don't know

15:50.100 --> 15:50.940
I never even knew

15:50.940 --> 15:51.600
If this show

15:51.600 --> 15:52.620
Would ever take off

15:52.620 --> 15:53.180
To anybody

15:53.180 --> 15:54.400
Me talking about

15:54.400 --> 15:55.700
Hacking and stuff

15:55.700 --> 15:57.200
That I find interesting

15:57.200 --> 15:57.820
And enjoyable

15:57.820 --> 15:59.260
And my definition of hacking

15:59.260 --> 16:00.800
And I never knew

16:00.800 --> 16:01.780
That anybody would listen

16:01.780 --> 16:03.100
To this episode 1

16:03.100 --> 16:03.840
Episode 2

16:03.840 --> 16:04.600
Episode 5

16:04.600 --> 16:05.120
I didn't know

16:05.120 --> 16:06.200
Any of this would last

16:06.200 --> 16:06.700
This long

16:06.700 --> 16:08.000
All I knew is that

16:08.000 --> 16:08.620
The more I did it

16:08.620 --> 16:10.020
The more I enjoyed doing it

16:10.020 --> 16:11.500
The more I learned from it

16:11.500 --> 16:12.520
And the more fun I had

16:12.520 --> 16:12.920
So

16:12.920 --> 16:14.200
Somehow

16:14.200 --> 16:14.880
Here we are

16:14.880 --> 16:15.720
Four years later

16:15.720 --> 16:16.780
With episode 200

16:16.780 --> 16:17.280
So

16:17.280 --> 16:18.680
I guess

16:18.680 --> 16:20.220
I don't know

16:20.220 --> 16:22.420
It definitely was a positive thing

16:22.420 --> 16:22.900
In my life

16:22.900 --> 16:23.360
And I'm glad

16:23.360 --> 16:23.960
That I did it

16:23.960 --> 16:24.220
But

16:24.220 --> 16:25.280
It is time

16:25.280 --> 16:26.200
For me to move on

16:26.200 --> 16:26.560
So

16:26.560 --> 16:28.320
I don't know

16:28.320 --> 16:29.200
Obviously

16:29.200 --> 16:30.040
Because this is

16:30.040 --> 16:30.760
The last episode

16:30.760 --> 16:31.360
Of the show

16:31.360 --> 16:32.620
And this is

16:32.620 --> 16:33.460
Kind of a celebration

16:33.460 --> 16:34.760
Of Binary Revolution Radio

16:34.760 --> 16:35.620
Over the years

16:35.620 --> 16:36.060
And

16:36.060 --> 16:37.740
Not only Binary Revolution Radio

16:37.740 --> 16:38.640
But even some

16:38.640 --> 16:40.260
Things before that

16:40.260 --> 16:41.180
There's a bigger history

16:41.180 --> 16:41.960
And longer history

16:41.960 --> 16:43.040
Than four years ago

16:43.040 --> 16:44.360
That we'll talk about

16:44.360 --> 16:45.040
Towards the end

16:45.040 --> 16:46.540
And since we have

16:46.540 --> 16:47.660
So much to talk about

16:47.660 --> 16:48.540
Over those four years

16:48.540 --> 16:49.540
There's no point

16:49.540 --> 16:50.040
Really in doing

16:50.040 --> 16:50.840
An email section

16:50.840 --> 16:51.320
So we're going to

16:51.320 --> 16:51.880
Skip that

16:51.880 --> 16:52.820
Bypass the email

16:52.820 --> 16:53.320
This week

16:53.320 --> 16:54.440
And

16:54.440 --> 16:55.420
Doing away with

16:55.420 --> 16:56.720
Formality of a time limit

16:56.720 --> 16:57.300
As I said

16:57.300 --> 16:57.920
This episode

16:57.920 --> 16:59.040
Is probably going to be

16:59.040 --> 17:00.180
Five plus hours

17:00.180 --> 17:01.280
When it's all said and done

17:01.280 --> 17:02.900
Maybe six plus hours

17:02.900 --> 17:03.460
Who knows

17:03.460 --> 17:04.400
But

17:04.400 --> 17:05.180
You know

17:05.180 --> 17:06.040
We figure if we're going to

17:06.040 --> 17:06.580
Close it up

17:06.580 --> 17:07.400
We wanted to tie up

17:07.400 --> 17:08.080
Any loose ends

17:08.080 --> 17:08.860
We could think of

17:08.860 --> 17:09.400
Or find

17:09.400 --> 17:11.160
Fill in any blanks

17:11.160 --> 17:12.180
Tell some funny stories

17:12.180 --> 17:12.800
And anecdotes

17:12.800 --> 17:14.080
Some behind the scenes stuff

17:14.080 --> 17:14.700
Some trivia

17:14.700 --> 17:15.740
You know

17:15.740 --> 17:16.720
Basically everything

17:16.720 --> 17:17.740
That you've

17:17.740 --> 17:18.380
Ever

17:18.380 --> 17:19.580
Or never

17:19.580 --> 17:20.420
Wanted to know

17:20.420 --> 17:21.840
About Binary Revolution Radio

17:21.840 --> 17:23.300
And try to give some

17:23.300 --> 17:24.080
Complete closure

17:24.080 --> 17:24.600
To everything

17:24.600 --> 17:25.480
We've ever brought up

17:25.480 --> 17:25.960
There's some

17:25.960 --> 17:27.340
Still some outstanding

17:27.340 --> 17:28.140
Things that people

17:28.140 --> 17:28.840
Question or

17:28.840 --> 17:29.520
Have never heard

17:29.520 --> 17:30.360
The full story on

17:30.360 --> 17:30.800
So hopefully

17:30.800 --> 17:32.180
We can fill in

17:32.180 --> 17:32.840
A lot of that

17:32.840 --> 17:34.760
And take as long

17:34.760 --> 17:35.220
As we need

17:35.220 --> 17:35.920
To actually cover

17:35.920 --> 17:36.680
All those topics

17:36.680 --> 17:37.140
In history

17:37.140 --> 17:37.680
That make up

17:37.680 --> 17:38.920
Binary Revolution Radio

17:38.920 --> 17:39.640
Also

17:39.640 --> 17:40.920
Stay tuned

17:40.920 --> 17:41.720
To the very end

17:41.720 --> 17:42.740
We don't

17:42.740 --> 17:43.060
You know

17:43.060 --> 17:43.640
We won't be able

17:43.640 --> 17:44.340
To take email

17:44.340 --> 17:45.500
Responses to the show

17:45.500 --> 17:46.480
But we will be

17:46.480 --> 17:47.380
Announcing a call in

17:47.380 --> 17:48.440
A call in number

17:48.440 --> 17:49.680
Voicemail box

17:49.680 --> 17:50.300
So you can call in

17:50.300 --> 17:51.060
To record a message

17:51.060 --> 17:52.560
About your experience

17:52.560 --> 17:53.020
Or thoughts

17:53.020 --> 17:54.420
About Binary Revolution Radio

17:54.420 --> 17:55.600
This episode

17:55.600 --> 17:57.080
Or the history

17:57.080 --> 17:58.020
And the all

17:58.020 --> 17:59.740
Encompassing entity

17:59.740 --> 18:00.300
Or whatever

18:00.300 --> 18:02.080
Binary Revolution Radio was

18:02.080 --> 18:03.320
So stick around for that

18:03.320 --> 18:05.100
And of course

18:05.100 --> 18:05.560
If you're listening

18:05.560 --> 18:06.200
On the podcast

18:06.200 --> 18:08.480
Or downloading the show

18:08.480 --> 18:09.080
From the website

18:09.080 --> 18:10.720
You can pause at any time

18:10.720 --> 18:11.860
Because this is going

18:11.860 --> 18:12.980
To be a long show

18:12.980 --> 18:13.640
But hopefully

18:13.640 --> 18:15.420
Still be a fun show

18:15.420 --> 18:16.440
So not there

18:16.440 --> 18:17.100
You ready to

18:17.100 --> 18:18.760
Dive into season one

18:18.760 --> 18:19.200
How do you think

18:19.200 --> 18:19.860
We ought to go here?

18:21.260 --> 18:22.540
Yeah I think I'm ready

18:22.540 --> 18:23.680
I'm just trying to digest

18:23.680 --> 18:24.460
The show novel

18:24.460 --> 18:25.420
This is the longest

18:25.420 --> 18:26.080
Show novel

18:26.080 --> 18:27.540
I've ever seen

18:27.540 --> 18:29.260
It is unbelievable

18:29.260 --> 18:31.120
It really is

18:31.120 --> 18:31.800
And I know I get

18:31.800 --> 18:32.880
Those jokes all the time

18:32.880 --> 18:34.560
But to make this

18:34.560 --> 18:34.900
Let's see

18:34.900 --> 18:35.160
This

18:35.160 --> 18:36.440
Alright I'm looking

18:36.440 --> 18:37.120
In my directory

18:37.120 --> 18:37.880
Right now

18:37.880 --> 18:38.700
Live on the air

18:38.700 --> 18:39.400
I didn't know

18:39.400 --> 18:39.700
You were going to

18:39.700 --> 18:40.380
Call me out on this

18:40.380 --> 18:40.820
This early

18:40.820 --> 18:42.540
But I'm looking back

18:42.540 --> 18:43.760
At my show novels

18:43.760 --> 18:44.880
For past episodes

18:44.880 --> 18:45.500
And like

18:45.500 --> 18:46.360
I don't know

18:46.360 --> 18:47.280
Here's episode

18:47.280 --> 18:48.700
156 notes

18:48.700 --> 18:49.660
Was 7k

18:49.660 --> 18:51.000
Episode

18:51.000 --> 18:52.680
165 notes

18:52.680 --> 18:53.600
Was 12k

18:53.600 --> 18:54.700
Episode 186

18:54.700 --> 18:56.920
Was 16k

18:56.920 --> 18:59.000
So here's a small one

18:59.000 --> 19:00.120
194 was only

19:00.120 --> 19:01.180
4k of notes

19:01.180 --> 19:03.420
Well episode 200

19:03.420 --> 19:05.160
Is 47k

19:05.160 --> 19:07.520
That's how big

19:07.520 --> 19:08.500
The show novels are

19:08.500 --> 19:09.240
For this episode

19:09.240 --> 19:09.720
So

19:09.720 --> 19:12.580
Yeah I guess

19:12.580 --> 19:13.260
Less talking

19:13.260 --> 19:14.120
And more getting to it

19:14.120 --> 19:14.660
So we can get through

19:14.660 --> 19:15.400
The show right

19:15.400 --> 19:17.600
Yeah let's go for it

19:17.600 --> 19:18.600
Alright well

19:18.600 --> 19:19.960
Let's see

19:19.960 --> 19:20.700
First of all

19:20.700 --> 19:22.580
One thing I want to say

19:22.580 --> 19:23.620
Is in putting

19:23.620 --> 19:24.460
These show notes together

19:24.460 --> 19:25.240
I went back

19:25.240 --> 19:26.120
Through our archive

19:26.120 --> 19:28.460
At binrev.com

19:28.460 --> 19:29.240
Slash radio

19:29.240 --> 19:30.340
Slash archive

19:30.340 --> 19:31.180
You can download

19:31.180 --> 19:31.840
All the shows

19:31.840 --> 19:32.800
Directly from there

19:32.800 --> 19:33.740
It's an open directory

19:33.740 --> 19:34.500
And has been

19:34.500 --> 19:35.540
For the entire

19:35.540 --> 19:36.100
Four years

19:36.100 --> 19:36.540
If you want to

19:36.540 --> 19:37.240
Just go download

19:37.240 --> 19:38.260
That entire directory

19:38.260 --> 19:39.060
Automatically

19:39.060 --> 19:40.260
Programatically

19:40.260 --> 19:40.980
Or you want to go

19:40.980 --> 19:42.280
And pull any single

19:42.280 --> 19:42.600
Episode

19:42.600 --> 19:43.660
They should all be there

19:43.660 --> 19:45.340
Or pull from the podcast

19:45.340 --> 19:46.860
Or just go to

19:46.860 --> 19:47.960
Slash radio

19:47.960 --> 19:48.620
And click on the

19:48.620 --> 19:49.580
Archive button

19:49.580 --> 19:51.720
And there's a website

19:51.720 --> 19:52.720
There with notes

19:52.720 --> 19:53.800
For every episode

19:53.800 --> 19:54.780
Or most of the episodes

19:54.780 --> 19:55.540
Over the years

19:55.540 --> 19:57.040
Well we do still have

19:57.040 --> 19:57.560
Some to put up

19:57.560 --> 19:58.260
For recent episodes

19:58.260 --> 19:58.960
I haven't gotten around

19:58.960 --> 19:59.340
To yet

19:59.340 --> 20:00.520
But

20:00.520 --> 20:01.600
As I was reading

20:01.600 --> 20:02.280
Through these

20:02.280 --> 20:03.260
There's a lot of links

20:03.260 --> 20:04.240
To the things we talked

20:04.240 --> 20:05.360
About on some of these shows

20:05.360 --> 20:06.440
And some of them

20:06.440 --> 20:07.000
Are pretty funny

20:07.000 --> 20:07.380
I don't think

20:07.380 --> 20:08.520
That's one thing

20:08.520 --> 20:09.580
Over the four years

20:09.580 --> 20:11.620
Some people may go back

20:11.620 --> 20:12.860
And find the show

20:12.860 --> 20:13.880
Because it's in Google

20:13.880 --> 20:14.700
Because they searched

20:14.700 --> 20:15.200
For something

20:15.200 --> 20:15.620
And they Googled

20:15.620 --> 20:16.160
For a term

20:16.160 --> 20:16.760
And found it

20:16.760 --> 20:17.620
But I don't know

20:17.620 --> 20:18.600
That anybody actually

20:18.600 --> 20:19.200
Went back

20:19.200 --> 20:20.100
And looked at the notes

20:20.100 --> 20:20.820
Or appreciated

20:20.820 --> 20:22.760
How funny some of these notes were

20:22.760 --> 20:23.740
Hack and slash

20:23.740 --> 20:25.440
Logos X did notes

20:25.440 --> 20:26.260
For a long time

20:26.260 --> 20:26.700
Enigma

20:26.700 --> 20:27.700
A lot of people

20:27.700 --> 20:28.580
Wrote notes for this

20:28.580 --> 20:30.620
And they're really funny

20:30.620 --> 20:31.240
A lot of the stuff

20:31.240 --> 20:32.000
You click on

20:32.000 --> 20:33.280
Doesn't take you

20:33.280 --> 20:34.380
Where you think

20:34.380 --> 20:35.440
It would take you at all

20:35.440 --> 20:36.740
There's a few links

20:36.740 --> 20:37.980
To like the albatross

20:37.980 --> 20:39.180
Your mutant power

20:39.180 --> 20:42.580
I haven't even seen that myself

20:42.580 --> 20:43.400
I'll have to go back

20:43.400 --> 20:44.340
And check it out

20:44.340 --> 20:45.200
Yeah there's all kinds

20:45.200 --> 20:46.020
Of funny links

20:46.020 --> 20:46.900
Mixed in there

20:46.900 --> 20:47.320
Here's a link

20:47.320 --> 20:48.020
To goat sea

20:48.020 --> 20:49.460
In the show notes

20:49.460 --> 20:50.260
Now that's not funny

20:50.260 --> 20:50.900
That's kind of gross

20:50.900 --> 20:54.120
But yeah there's a lot

20:54.120 --> 20:54.720
Of funny links

20:54.720 --> 20:55.340
Back in there

20:55.340 --> 20:56.720
And especially in terms

20:56.720 --> 20:57.500
Of what the link

20:57.500 --> 20:58.540
It may say one thing

20:58.540 --> 20:59.260
But take you somewhere

20:59.260 --> 20:59.540
Different

20:59.540 --> 21:00.520
It's got some puns

21:00.520 --> 21:01.940
And some funny

21:01.940 --> 21:03.540
References in there

21:03.540 --> 21:05.240
So that was kind of fun

21:05.240 --> 21:06.000
Going back through there

21:06.000 --> 21:06.740
There's jokes in there

21:06.740 --> 21:07.700
That I had forgotten about

21:07.700 --> 21:08.520
Or didn't even realize

21:08.520 --> 21:09.580
Were in there all this time

21:09.580 --> 21:11.740
But going back

21:11.740 --> 21:12.300
Through the history

21:12.300 --> 21:12.700
I guess

21:12.700 --> 21:13.600
Where do we begin

21:13.600 --> 21:14.840
But at the beginning

21:14.840 --> 21:15.800
Episode number one

21:15.800 --> 21:17.360
Of Binary Revolution Radio

21:17.360 --> 21:19.400
Air date was

21:19.400 --> 21:23.080
July 8, 2003

21:23.080 --> 21:25.140
And here we are

21:25.140 --> 21:26.700
In October 2007

21:26.700 --> 21:28.500
Four

21:28.500 --> 21:30.500
Over four years later

21:30.500 --> 21:32.340
Can you believe

21:32.340 --> 21:34.020
Four years

21:34.020 --> 21:35.420
Isn't that bizarre

21:35.420 --> 21:37.260
Yeah it's amazing

21:37.260 --> 21:38.460
I mean really

21:38.460 --> 21:39.980
Anything for four years

21:39.980 --> 21:40.220
Yeah

21:40.220 --> 21:41.500
That's a show

21:41.500 --> 21:41.960
That's a thing

21:41.960 --> 21:42.640
They have to do

21:42.640 --> 21:43.400
Yeah websites

21:43.400 --> 21:44.560
Don't last for you

21:44.560 --> 21:45.780
Especially hacking websites

21:45.780 --> 21:46.960
Because there's so much

21:46.960 --> 21:49.060
Material and content

21:49.060 --> 21:49.760
On there that

21:49.760 --> 21:51.360
Well gets the site

21:51.360 --> 21:52.000
Shut down

21:52.000 --> 21:52.520
So heck

21:52.520 --> 21:53.140
It's a testament

21:53.140 --> 21:53.840
Just getting

21:53.840 --> 21:55.100
BinRev.com up

21:55.100 --> 21:56.360
And staying running

21:56.360 --> 21:57.540
And forums all this time

21:57.540 --> 21:59.140
With all the content

21:59.140 --> 22:01.040
That people post

22:01.040 --> 22:02.140
Or try to post in there

22:02.140 --> 22:02.740
So we've had a great

22:02.740 --> 22:03.400
Moderating team

22:03.400 --> 22:05.260
That's helped get that

22:05.260 --> 22:06.280
Make that happen

22:06.280 --> 22:06.980
And helped keep us

22:06.980 --> 22:07.960
From going down there

22:07.960 --> 22:09.840
And then the show itself

22:09.840 --> 22:10.780
Obviously four years

22:10.780 --> 22:11.700
And yeah

22:11.700 --> 22:12.580
Episode one

22:12.580 --> 22:14.340
With you know

22:14.340 --> 22:15.740
The Freak Scout himself

22:15.740 --> 22:16.460
Wintermute and I

22:16.460 --> 22:17.280
Started the show

22:17.280 --> 22:18.820
Kind of a spin off

22:18.820 --> 22:19.860
Of Radio Freak America

22:19.860 --> 22:20.660
RFA over at

22:20.660 --> 22:21.740
OldSchoolFreak.com

22:21.740 --> 22:23.920
And you know

22:23.920 --> 22:24.460
Kind of wanted

22:24.460 --> 22:25.220
A different format

22:25.220 --> 22:26.080
And we're going to

22:26.080 --> 22:26.700
Go into the format

22:26.700 --> 22:27.580
Later on in the show

22:27.580 --> 22:28.980
But one of the

22:28.980 --> 22:30.420
More rigid formats

22:30.420 --> 22:31.200
Than some of the other

22:31.200 --> 22:31.780
Shows were doing

22:31.780 --> 22:32.460
At the time

22:32.460 --> 22:35.760
And actually

22:35.760 --> 22:36.280
This episode

22:36.280 --> 22:36.840
Is also

22:36.840 --> 22:37.540
One of the things

22:37.540 --> 22:37.880
In here

22:37.880 --> 22:38.460
Was the beginning

22:38.460 --> 22:39.420
Of a very long

22:39.420 --> 22:40.160
Running meme

22:40.160 --> 22:42.160
Of Juarez

22:42.160 --> 22:43.560
Because I believe

22:43.560 --> 22:44.320
We had an email

22:44.320 --> 22:45.500
On this first episode

22:45.500 --> 22:46.240
Of somebody

22:46.240 --> 22:47.260
Emailing us

22:47.260 --> 22:47.860
Wanting to know

22:47.860 --> 22:48.920
About Juarez

22:48.920 --> 22:50.340
Or Wares

22:50.340 --> 22:51.500
W-A-R-E-Z

22:51.500 --> 22:52.000
And I've heard

22:52.000 --> 22:52.820
People pronounce it

22:52.820 --> 22:53.500
Both ways

22:53.500 --> 22:55.320
And never sure

22:55.320 --> 22:56.140
Of how to pronounce it

22:56.140 --> 22:56.580
So it became

22:56.580 --> 22:57.160
Kind of a joke

22:57.160 --> 22:57.680
We talked about

22:57.680 --> 22:58.520
In that first episode

22:58.520 --> 22:59.820
But it became

22:59.820 --> 23:00.740
This running joke

23:00.740 --> 23:01.360
This meme

23:01.360 --> 23:02.300
That we've carried on

23:02.300 --> 23:03.120
For four years

23:03.120 --> 23:04.100
So we still call it

23:04.100 --> 23:04.880
Juarez

23:04.880 --> 23:05.620
Juarez

23:05.620 --> 23:06.680
Or if you're

23:06.680 --> 23:08.220
A Spanish speaker

23:08.220 --> 23:09.160
Or have a little accent

23:09.160 --> 23:09.940
You could call it

23:09.940 --> 23:10.680
Juarez

23:10.680 --> 23:13.280
And I actually

23:13.280 --> 23:14.020
Went to

23:14.020 --> 23:15.040
Juarez Mexico

23:15.040 --> 23:16.340
And I'm sure

23:16.340 --> 23:17.180
You know where this is

23:17.180 --> 23:17.880
You've done some business

23:17.880 --> 23:18.480
In that area

23:18.480 --> 23:19.220
Juarez

23:19.220 --> 23:19.980
Yeah now

23:19.980 --> 23:20.440
Juarez

23:20.440 --> 23:21.520
Is it the city

23:21.520 --> 23:22.680
That's the city

23:22.680 --> 23:23.640
That's directly

23:23.640 --> 23:24.620
Across the border

23:24.620 --> 23:25.700
From El Paso, Texas

23:25.700 --> 23:26.680
El Paso

23:26.680 --> 23:27.280
Sister city

23:27.280 --> 23:28.340
To El Paso, Texas

23:28.340 --> 23:28.700
Yep

23:28.700 --> 23:30.400
Yeah I saw it

23:30.400 --> 23:31.320
When I was in El Paso

23:31.320 --> 23:31.880
But I didn't get

23:31.880 --> 23:32.400
A chance to go

23:32.400 --> 23:33.820
I only had like

23:33.820 --> 23:34.740
Six hours

23:34.740 --> 23:35.480
And the city

23:35.480 --> 23:36.420
Had to do my work

23:36.420 --> 23:36.960
And get done

23:36.960 --> 23:37.420
But everybody

23:37.420 --> 23:38.180
Told me it's a great

23:38.180 --> 23:39.080
Time to go over there

23:39.080 --> 23:40.280
So I've got to

23:40.280 --> 23:40.960
Go back sometime

23:40.960 --> 23:42.240
Well if you want

23:42.240 --> 23:42.780
To go back now

23:42.780 --> 23:43.280
You have to have

23:43.280 --> 23:43.740
A passport

23:43.740 --> 23:44.880
When I went

23:44.880 --> 23:45.860
It was before

23:45.860 --> 23:46.660
They cracked down

23:46.660 --> 23:47.380
And were requiring

23:47.380 --> 23:47.920
Passports

23:47.920 --> 23:48.740
You could go walk

23:48.740 --> 23:49.620
Across the footbridge

23:49.620 --> 23:50.100
Over there

23:50.100 --> 23:50.960
Or drive across

23:50.960 --> 23:52.000
But you could walk

23:52.000 --> 23:53.220
Across the footbridge

23:53.220 --> 23:54.000
Which is what I did

23:54.000 --> 23:54.660
Took some pictures

23:54.660 --> 23:55.340
Over there

23:55.340 --> 23:56.820
And boy

23:56.820 --> 23:57.260
Lots of

23:57.260 --> 23:58.260
Lots and lots

23:58.260 --> 23:58.820
Of pay phones

23:58.820 --> 23:59.240
Did you happen

23:59.240 --> 23:59.800
To notice that

23:59.800 --> 24:00.420
In El Paso

24:00.420 --> 24:03.720
No not really

24:03.720 --> 24:04.320
Where I was

24:04.320 --> 24:04.900
I was in

24:04.900 --> 24:05.960
You know

24:05.960 --> 24:06.760
A bunch of hospitals

24:06.760 --> 24:07.180
And stuff

24:07.180 --> 24:07.700
Doing some

24:07.700 --> 24:09.040
Consulting work

24:09.040 --> 24:09.400
And I didn't

24:09.400 --> 24:10.020
Really get a chance

24:10.020 --> 24:10.560
To check out

24:10.560 --> 24:11.440
Much of anything

24:11.440 --> 24:12.200
Other than the offices

24:12.200 --> 24:13.100
That I was working in

24:13.100 --> 24:13.360
So

24:13.360 --> 24:14.800
El Paso

24:14.800 --> 24:16.580
Had a ton

24:16.580 --> 24:17.680
Of pay phones

24:17.680 --> 24:18.260
I know a lot

24:18.260 --> 24:19.200
Of other parts

24:19.200 --> 24:19.740
Of the country

24:19.740 --> 24:20.920
Have been getting

24:20.920 --> 24:21.660
Rid of pay phones

24:21.660 --> 24:22.300
Left and right

24:22.300 --> 24:23.020
Chopping them down

24:23.020 --> 24:23.920
But boy

24:23.920 --> 24:24.400
They're alive

24:24.400 --> 24:24.740
And well

24:24.740 --> 24:25.400
In El Paso

24:25.400 --> 24:25.880
And the closer

24:25.880 --> 24:26.960
You got to the border

24:26.960 --> 24:29.060
Oh my goodness

24:29.060 --> 24:29.840
There were banks

24:29.840 --> 24:31.380
Of like 30 pay phones

24:31.380 --> 24:32.180
Side by side

24:32.180 --> 24:32.660
By side

24:32.660 --> 24:33.060
And like

24:33.060 --> 24:34.100
All in use

24:34.100 --> 24:35.860
It was insane

24:35.860 --> 24:36.400
I guess people

24:36.400 --> 24:36.820
Were crawling

24:36.820 --> 24:37.640
Across the border

24:37.640 --> 24:39.340
To meet people

24:39.340 --> 24:39.800
Or

24:39.800 --> 24:41.620
I don't know

24:41.620 --> 24:42.060
And I don't know

24:42.060 --> 24:43.200
How the exchange rate

24:43.200 --> 24:43.860
And who runs

24:43.860 --> 24:44.440
These phones

24:44.440 --> 24:45.480
And same thing

24:45.480 --> 24:46.120
On the other side

24:46.120 --> 24:46.640
When I crossed

24:46.640 --> 24:47.600
Over into Juarez

24:47.600 --> 24:49.160
There were a ton

24:49.160 --> 24:49.700
Of pay phones

24:49.700 --> 24:50.460
Over there as well

24:50.460 --> 24:50.900
So

24:50.900 --> 24:52.060
It was really

24:52.060 --> 24:52.340
Interesting

24:52.340 --> 24:52.840
I did take

24:52.840 --> 24:53.280
Some pictures

24:53.280 --> 24:53.660
And actually

24:53.660 --> 24:54.320
Just recently

24:54.320 --> 24:54.820
Sent them in

24:54.820 --> 24:56.040
To 2600 magazine

24:56.040 --> 24:57.420
So

24:57.420 --> 24:57.800
I don't know

24:57.800 --> 24:58.040
If they're

24:58.040 --> 24:58.760
Bothered to use them

24:58.760 --> 24:59.120
I had them

24:59.120 --> 24:59.640
Sitting around

24:59.640 --> 25:00.480
On my camera

25:00.480 --> 25:01.660
Memory card

25:01.660 --> 25:02.780
SD card

25:02.780 --> 25:03.380
For a long time

25:03.380 --> 25:03.920
Just got around

25:03.920 --> 25:04.560
To sending them in

25:04.560 --> 25:04.740
But

25:04.740 --> 25:06.160
But yeah

25:06.160 --> 25:06.780
This was the beginning

25:06.780 --> 25:07.680
Of the Juarez meme

25:07.680 --> 25:08.700
It again came

25:08.700 --> 25:09.600
It was years later

25:09.600 --> 25:10.640
Many years after this

25:10.640 --> 25:11.240
Before I actually

25:11.240 --> 25:11.980
Went out to Juarez

25:11.980 --> 25:12.420
But

25:12.420 --> 25:13.560
Kind of an interesting

25:13.560 --> 25:14.700
Little back story there

25:14.700 --> 25:17.340
Episode number two

25:17.340 --> 25:19.260
Proof that

25:19.260 --> 25:21.500
Redneck hackers exist

25:21.500 --> 25:22.320
That would be me

25:22.320 --> 25:24.100
Yeah

25:24.100 --> 25:25.220
And this is the beginning

25:25.220 --> 25:25.920
Of the running joke

25:25.920 --> 25:26.500
About you being

25:26.500 --> 25:27.840
A slight redneck

25:27.840 --> 25:29.440
I would put you

25:29.440 --> 25:30.460
Well beyond

25:30.460 --> 25:31.440
The slight redneck

25:31.440 --> 25:31.960
No

25:31.960 --> 25:33.120
I'm not well beyond

25:33.120 --> 25:34.240
Droops is well beyond

25:34.240 --> 25:35.580
Droops is a full on

25:35.580 --> 25:36.080
Redneck

25:36.080 --> 25:37.800
Droops is a full on

25:37.800 --> 25:38.740
Beer drinking

25:38.740 --> 25:41.300
Mailbox baseball

25:41.300 --> 25:42.680
Kind of redneck guy

25:42.680 --> 25:43.940
I'm just more country

25:43.940 --> 25:44.400
I guess

25:44.400 --> 25:45.520
A little bit of redneck

25:45.520 --> 25:47.460
I don't know

25:47.460 --> 25:48.340
Maybe a lot of redneck

25:48.340 --> 25:48.940
Who am I kidding

25:48.940 --> 25:49.440
I don't know

25:49.440 --> 25:50.080
What I'm talking about

25:50.080 --> 25:50.680
I think

25:50.680 --> 25:51.540
I think you're a lot

25:51.540 --> 25:52.020
Of redneck

25:52.020 --> 25:53.000
And maybe you don't

25:53.000 --> 25:53.340
Drink

25:53.340 --> 25:54.040
But I think that's

25:54.040 --> 25:54.600
Because you're too busy

25:54.600 --> 25:55.320
Watching NASCAR

25:55.320 --> 25:56.620
To get a drink

25:56.620 --> 25:57.700
I like NASCAR

25:57.700 --> 25:58.400
Screw you

25:58.400 --> 25:59.460
Damn Yankee

25:59.460 --> 26:00.580
Don't hate

26:00.580 --> 26:01.100
Oh

26:01.100 --> 26:05.760
Damn Yankee

26:05.760 --> 26:08.540
Actually I get a little

26:08.540 --> 26:09.160
Hate sometimes

26:09.160 --> 26:09.780
Because I'm actually

26:09.780 --> 26:10.540
Originally from the

26:10.540 --> 26:11.120
State of Virginia

26:11.120 --> 26:13.300
And some people

26:13.300 --> 26:14.420
Don't realize

26:14.420 --> 26:14.980
Or don't think

26:14.980 --> 26:15.380
That Virginia

26:15.380 --> 26:16.180
Is part of the south

26:16.180 --> 26:16.920
And that bugs

26:16.920 --> 26:17.560
The hell out of me

26:17.560 --> 26:18.240
Boy that's a pet

26:18.240 --> 26:18.840
Peeve of mine

26:18.840 --> 26:19.960
We were

26:19.960 --> 26:21.220
The Mason-Dixon line

26:21.220 --> 26:21.900
We formed the

26:21.900 --> 26:22.720
Mason-Dixon line

26:22.720 --> 26:23.200
Damn it

26:23.200 --> 26:24.760
This is supposed to be

26:24.760 --> 26:25.680
An anniversary episode

26:25.680 --> 26:26.760
And I'm going into a rant

26:26.760 --> 26:27.400
What the fuck

26:27.400 --> 26:28.280
How did this happen

26:28.280 --> 26:29.700
Damn it

26:29.700 --> 26:30.360
Well let me just

26:30.360 --> 26:31.060
Clear it up to you

26:31.060 --> 26:31.580
Right now

26:31.580 --> 26:33.480
Anything south

26:33.480 --> 26:34.280
Of the New York

26:34.280 --> 26:35.160
New Jersey border

26:35.160 --> 26:36.200
Is the south

26:36.200 --> 26:38.220
Hmm

26:38.220 --> 26:39.900
Well I also spent

26:39.900 --> 26:40.880
A few years in Pennsylvania

26:40.880 --> 26:41.640
So I guess by your

26:41.640 --> 26:42.640
Definition I've always

26:42.640 --> 26:43.260
Been in the south

26:43.260 --> 26:44.840
Yeah

26:44.840 --> 26:45.620
Very much

26:45.620 --> 26:46.400
Well

26:46.400 --> 26:47.800
Virginia

26:47.800 --> 26:48.700
The Mason-Dixon line

26:48.700 --> 26:49.380
Anything south

26:49.380 --> 26:50.280
Of the Mason-Dixon line

26:50.280 --> 26:50.820
Is the south

26:50.820 --> 26:52.280
That's how it is

26:52.280 --> 26:53.340
So

26:53.340 --> 26:54.720
There you go

26:54.720 --> 26:55.040
There's a little

26:55.040 --> 26:55.820
Dock droppage

26:55.820 --> 26:56.400
From the dog

26:56.400 --> 26:58.860
Looking ahead

26:58.860 --> 26:59.220
Let's see

26:59.220 --> 26:59.780
Number four

26:59.780 --> 27:01.420
Was a good episode

27:01.420 --> 27:02.340
Brought Dual Parallel

27:02.340 --> 27:02.800
On the show

27:02.800 --> 27:03.680
For the first time

27:03.680 --> 27:05.240
And shows

27:05.240 --> 27:05.840
That

27:05.840 --> 27:07.780
Binary Revolution Radio

27:07.780 --> 27:08.500
And RFA

27:08.500 --> 27:09.440
Could coexist

27:09.440 --> 27:10.820
That there was no separation

27:10.820 --> 27:11.820
There was no animosity

27:11.820 --> 27:12.560
Or anything like that

27:12.560 --> 27:13.180
It was just a

27:13.180 --> 27:14.240
New show

27:14.240 --> 27:15.680
With different formats

27:15.680 --> 27:16.760
Different formats

27:16.760 --> 27:17.720
Topics

27:17.720 --> 27:18.360
Different shows

27:18.360 --> 27:18.940
All together

27:18.940 --> 27:20.580
I was still on

27:20.580 --> 27:21.480
Radio Freak America

27:21.480 --> 27:22.260
While we were doing it

27:22.260 --> 27:23.400
Doing two shows a week

27:23.400 --> 27:25.020
And Dual was coming on

27:25.020 --> 27:25.560
And doing the show

27:25.560 --> 27:26.400
With me sometimes

27:26.400 --> 27:26.820
So

27:26.820 --> 27:29.220
At this time actually

27:29.220 --> 27:30.160
Episode four

27:30.160 --> 27:30.960
When we aired this

27:30.960 --> 27:31.840
In 2003

27:31.840 --> 27:33.220
And when we started

27:33.220 --> 27:33.580
The show

27:33.580 --> 27:34.180
For that matter

27:34.180 --> 27:35.260
We knew all along

27:35.260 --> 27:36.040
That RFA

27:36.040 --> 27:36.840
Was going to be ending

27:36.840 --> 27:37.600
We knew

27:37.600 --> 27:39.540
That RFA

27:39.540 --> 27:41.240
Was winding down

27:41.240 --> 27:41.940
Dual wasn't having

27:41.940 --> 27:43.020
Time to do it anymore

27:43.020 --> 27:43.900
Bland wasn't having

27:43.900 --> 27:44.600
Time to do it anymore

27:44.600 --> 27:45.020
So we knew

27:45.020 --> 27:45.620
It was happening

27:45.620 --> 27:47.880
And Dual and I

27:47.880 --> 27:48.820
Had even talked about

27:48.820 --> 27:49.100
You know

27:49.100 --> 27:49.680
What to do

27:49.680 --> 27:50.460
And how we were doing

27:50.460 --> 27:50.840
You know

27:50.840 --> 27:51.500
How long we were going

27:51.500 --> 27:52.860
To keep the show going

27:52.860 --> 27:53.880
And we started

27:53.880 --> 27:55.060
Binary Revolution Radio

27:55.060 --> 27:55.960
Actually around

27:55.960 --> 27:56.880
Episode 69

27:56.880 --> 27:58.240
Of RFA

27:58.240 --> 27:59.880
69 of course

27:59.880 --> 28:00.660
A notable episode

28:00.660 --> 28:01.460
For other reasons

28:01.460 --> 28:02.820
But of course

28:02.820 --> 28:03.920
So was our episode 69

28:03.920 --> 28:04.640
We'll talk about that

28:04.640 --> 28:05.260
In a little bit too

28:05.260 --> 28:06.840
But around that same episode

28:06.840 --> 28:07.640
That's when we started

28:07.640 --> 28:08.840
Binary Revolution Radio

28:08.840 --> 28:10.620
So coexisted for quite

28:10.620 --> 28:11.560
A long time together

28:11.560 --> 28:12.220
Again

28:12.220 --> 28:14.060
I've always said

28:14.060 --> 28:15.160
Especially in the early episodes

28:15.160 --> 28:15.680
We used to always

28:15.680 --> 28:16.340
Encourage people

28:16.340 --> 28:17.320
To make their own shows

28:17.320 --> 28:18.300
We wanted more people

28:18.300 --> 28:18.700
Out there

28:18.700 --> 28:20.220
Making radio shows

28:20.220 --> 28:20.940
Making TV

28:20.940 --> 28:22.000
Making content

28:22.000 --> 28:23.300
Not just being

28:23.300 --> 28:24.440
Consumers and users

28:24.440 --> 28:25.580
We always encourage people

28:25.580 --> 28:26.560
To put things out there

28:26.560 --> 28:28.300
And still do to this day

28:28.300 --> 28:30.080
Especially with

28:30.080 --> 28:31.080
Binary Revolution Radio

28:31.080 --> 28:31.660
Going away

28:31.660 --> 28:32.260
I'm going to need

28:32.260 --> 28:33.040
Something to listen to

28:33.040 --> 28:33.420
It works

28:33.420 --> 28:33.980
So please

28:33.980 --> 28:34.460
Go out there

28:34.460 --> 28:35.560
And make some shows

28:35.560 --> 28:38.180
But yeah

28:38.180 --> 28:38.620
Show that

28:38.620 --> 28:39.100
You know

28:39.100 --> 28:40.360
Shows can coexist

28:40.360 --> 28:41.260
You can have multiples

28:41.260 --> 28:41.900
Heck even

28:41.900 --> 28:44.700
Hacker Media

28:44.700 --> 28:45.700
The site that came up

28:45.700 --> 28:46.440
To help keep track

28:46.440 --> 28:47.040
Of all the shows

28:47.040 --> 28:47.800
That were coming around

28:47.800 --> 28:48.360
At that time

28:48.360 --> 28:48.700
So

28:48.700 --> 28:50.600
Very good times

28:50.600 --> 28:51.500
In the hacking scene

28:51.500 --> 28:52.140
I think

28:52.140 --> 28:54.920
Let's see

28:54.920 --> 28:55.860
Episode 4

28:55.860 --> 28:56.680
Episode 5

28:56.680 --> 28:57.520
Was the beginning

28:57.520 --> 28:58.420
Of another meme

28:58.420 --> 28:59.460
That we had on the show

28:59.460 --> 29:00.040
This one kind of

29:00.040 --> 29:00.580
Died away

29:00.580 --> 29:01.500
After Mute left

29:01.500 --> 29:02.420
But

29:02.420 --> 29:03.200
Winter Mute

29:03.200 --> 29:04.620
Back on RFA

29:04.620 --> 29:05.580
Actually I think it was

29:05.580 --> 29:06.820
Was talking about

29:06.820 --> 29:07.520
How he saw

29:07.520 --> 29:09.080
I think it was a cop

29:09.080 --> 29:10.700
Somewhere that

29:10.700 --> 29:11.300
They were starting

29:11.300 --> 29:12.100
To use segways

29:12.100 --> 29:13.840
And he started

29:13.840 --> 29:14.860
Yelling at the guy

29:14.860 --> 29:15.520
Screaming out

29:15.520 --> 29:16.240
Segway

29:16.240 --> 29:18.280
So

29:18.280 --> 29:19.780
And Jul and I

29:19.780 --> 29:20.220
Always thought

29:20.220 --> 29:20.900
That was funny

29:20.900 --> 29:22.200
Because

29:22.200 --> 29:23.400
It was just weird

29:23.400 --> 29:23.920
Who yelled

29:23.920 --> 29:24.600
Segway out

29:24.600 --> 29:25.140
At somebody

29:25.140 --> 29:26.320
So anytime

29:26.320 --> 29:27.160
Anybody ever said

29:27.160 --> 29:27.820
Segway

29:27.820 --> 29:29.320
On any of the shows

29:29.320 --> 29:30.320
We would always

29:30.320 --> 29:30.880
Echo it

29:30.880 --> 29:31.440
And scream out

29:31.440 --> 29:32.440
Segway

29:32.440 --> 29:34.340
In the middle

29:34.340 --> 29:34.820
Of the show

29:34.820 --> 29:35.320
And that's probably

29:35.320 --> 29:35.780
A meme that

29:35.780 --> 29:36.640
Was only

29:36.640 --> 29:37.180
It was like

29:37.180 --> 29:37.820
An inside joke

29:37.820 --> 29:38.600
Nobody ever got

29:38.600 --> 29:39.120
People probably

29:39.120 --> 29:39.480
Thought we were

29:39.480 --> 29:40.560
Crazy for doing that

29:40.560 --> 29:42.220
But

29:42.220 --> 29:43.160
Kind of a running joke

29:43.160 --> 29:43.460
It wasn't just

29:43.460 --> 29:43.940
When people were

29:43.940 --> 29:45.160
Talking about segways

29:45.160 --> 29:45.640
When they say

29:45.640 --> 29:46.280
Okay let's

29:46.280 --> 29:46.880
Segway on

29:46.880 --> 29:47.500
To the next

29:47.500 --> 29:48.240
Segment

29:48.240 --> 29:48.880
Segway

29:48.880 --> 29:51.780
Any occasion

29:51.780 --> 29:52.200
To yell out

29:52.200 --> 29:52.620
Segway

29:52.620 --> 29:52.980
You know

29:52.980 --> 29:53.820
I know you say

29:53.820 --> 29:54.560
That it went away

29:54.560 --> 29:55.620
When mute

29:55.620 --> 29:56.900
Stopped being on the show

29:56.900 --> 29:58.100
But I gotta tell you

29:58.100 --> 29:59.020
I'm a victim of this

29:59.020 --> 30:00.500
Even when I'm talking

30:00.500 --> 30:01.000
To people

30:01.000 --> 30:02.260
About segways

30:02.260 --> 30:03.000
People who know

30:03.000 --> 30:03.620
Nothing about

30:03.620 --> 30:04.340
The hacking scene

30:04.340 --> 30:04.940
Whatsoever

30:04.940 --> 30:06.120
Every once in a while

30:06.120 --> 30:07.200
I'll just yell

30:07.200 --> 30:07.700
Segway

30:07.700 --> 30:08.540
And people will look

30:08.540 --> 30:08.860
At me

30:08.860 --> 30:10.100
Rightfully so

30:10.100 --> 30:11.300
Like I'm a total idiot

30:11.300 --> 30:12.880
And I don't even

30:12.880 --> 30:13.680
Bother to explain it

30:13.680 --> 30:14.580
I just changed the subject

30:14.580 --> 30:15.240
So

30:15.240 --> 30:15.940
It's just

30:15.940 --> 30:18.540
An awkward situation

30:18.540 --> 30:19.440
It's catchy

30:19.440 --> 30:22.920
Segway

30:22.920 --> 30:24.660
Maybe that'll be

30:24.660 --> 30:25.260
The one legacy

30:25.260 --> 30:25.880
That comes out

30:25.880 --> 30:26.820
Of Binary Revolution

30:26.820 --> 30:27.120
Radio

30:27.120 --> 30:27.780
People yelling

30:27.780 --> 30:28.880
Segway for no reason

30:28.880 --> 30:30.740
Oh man

30:30.740 --> 30:32.680
Oh let's see here

30:32.680 --> 30:33.100
How about

30:33.100 --> 30:34.080
Episode 7

30:34.080 --> 30:35.540
The how to episode

30:35.540 --> 30:37.020
Boy this is

30:37.020 --> 30:38.200
These are cop out episodes

30:38.200 --> 30:38.780
The how to

30:38.780 --> 30:40.200
Like every radio show

30:40.200 --> 30:41.000
Everybody who's ever

30:41.000 --> 30:41.920
Done a radio show

30:41.920 --> 30:42.940
Does a

30:42.940 --> 30:43.840
How to do

30:43.840 --> 30:45.340
The radio show

30:45.340 --> 30:46.260
Episode somewhere

30:46.260 --> 30:47.340
I think that's a sign

30:47.340 --> 30:48.000
Of people running

30:48.000 --> 30:48.680
Out of content

30:48.680 --> 30:49.800
Or running out of topics

30:49.800 --> 30:51.320
And probably for us

30:51.320 --> 30:51.600
As well

30:51.600 --> 30:51.980
We were probably

30:51.980 --> 30:52.740
Struggling to

30:52.740 --> 30:53.780
Kind of get our feet

30:53.780 --> 30:54.460
There at the beginning

30:54.460 --> 30:54.920
But

30:54.920 --> 30:57.160
We of course

30:57.160 --> 30:58.160
Did our obligatory

30:58.160 --> 30:59.360
How to do a show

30:59.360 --> 31:00.320
And

31:00.320 --> 31:01.500
I don't know

31:01.500 --> 31:01.960
A lot of shows

31:01.960 --> 31:02.760
Died after that

31:02.760 --> 31:03.480
Luckily we kept

31:03.480 --> 31:04.080
On continuing

31:04.080 --> 31:04.600
We were able

31:04.600 --> 31:05.220
To still get up

31:05.220 --> 31:05.420
With

31:05.420 --> 31:06.200
Get some content

31:06.200 --> 31:06.560
Going

31:06.560 --> 31:07.560
And survive

31:07.560 --> 31:08.120
Through that

31:08.120 --> 31:09.480
Where a lot of shows

31:09.480 --> 31:10.780
End with the

31:10.780 --> 31:11.540
How to episode

31:11.540 --> 31:12.320
So luckily that

31:12.320 --> 31:13.140
Didn't happen to us

31:13.140 --> 31:14.660
And it was only

31:14.660 --> 31:15.220
A couple more

31:15.220 --> 31:16.240
Episodes after that

31:16.240 --> 31:16.780
That our little

31:16.780 --> 31:17.280
Winter mute

31:17.280 --> 31:18.120
The little freak scout

31:18.120 --> 31:19.100
Went off to college

31:19.100 --> 31:20.900
Our little boy's

31:20.900 --> 31:21.560
Growing up

31:21.560 --> 31:23.580
Oh

31:23.580 --> 31:25.040
I'm getting

31:25.040 --> 31:25.380
Requested

31:25.380 --> 31:25.760
You don't know

31:25.760 --> 31:26.240
About the birds

31:26.240 --> 31:26.800
And the bees yet

31:26.800 --> 31:27.140
Or what

31:27.140 --> 31:27.660
What's going on

31:27.660 --> 31:28.020
Well

31:28.020 --> 31:29.000
We figured we'd

31:29.000 --> 31:29.360
Just let him

31:29.360 --> 31:30.060
Learn that in college

31:30.060 --> 31:30.940
Doesn't that sound right

31:30.940 --> 31:31.540
Yeah

31:31.540 --> 31:31.860
I'm

31:31.860 --> 31:32.780
I'm sure he's

31:32.780 --> 31:33.840
Learned plenty about that

31:33.840 --> 31:34.820
Let him experiment

31:34.820 --> 31:35.760
What are you kidding

31:35.760 --> 31:36.180
Anybody

31:36.180 --> 31:37.020
Any hacker

31:37.020 --> 31:38.260
Worth a grain of salt

31:38.260 --> 31:38.760
In the interweb

31:38.760 --> 31:39.460
Has already learned

31:39.460 --> 31:40.440
All about goat seed

31:40.440 --> 31:40.920
Tub girl

31:40.920 --> 31:41.820
What more could you

31:41.820 --> 31:42.960
Possibly want to know

31:42.960 --> 31:44.580
I mean

31:44.580 --> 31:45.240
Lemon party

31:45.240 --> 31:45.580
Meat spin

31:45.580 --> 31:45.840
I don't know

31:45.840 --> 31:46.300
I would say that tub girl

31:46.300 --> 31:47.080
In health class

31:47.080 --> 31:47.420
That would be

31:47.420 --> 31:48.140
That would

31:48.140 --> 31:49.240
Explained a lot more

31:49.240 --> 31:49.440
To me

31:49.440 --> 31:49.860
A lot more

31:49.860 --> 31:50.340
Of what I needed

31:50.340 --> 31:50.760
To know

31:50.760 --> 31:51.420
Than the crap

31:51.420 --> 31:51.960
They told me

31:51.960 --> 31:52.200
Yeah

31:52.200 --> 31:53.280
If you take tub girl

31:53.280 --> 31:54.400
Goat seed

31:54.400 --> 31:55.840
Meat spin

31:55.840 --> 31:57.120
And lemon party

31:57.120 --> 31:57.880
Is there really

31:57.880 --> 31:58.620
Anything more to learn

31:58.620 --> 31:59.160
About sex

31:59.160 --> 31:59.820
Beyond those

31:59.820 --> 32:02.540
Doesn't that cover it

32:02.540 --> 32:03.000
I don't know

32:03.000 --> 32:04.260
Oh wait

32:04.260 --> 32:05.020
Lime party

32:05.020 --> 32:06.220
What about lime party

32:06.220 --> 32:06.860
Lime party

32:06.860 --> 32:07.860
But that's lemon party

32:07.860 --> 32:08.580
Same thing

32:08.580 --> 32:10.460
It's

32:10.460 --> 32:11.340
It's different

32:11.340 --> 32:12.240
No

32:12.240 --> 32:13.820
What else

32:13.820 --> 32:15.960
Well and the link

32:15.960 --> 32:16.200
To the

32:16.200 --> 32:16.420
You know

32:16.420 --> 32:16.860
You got to know

32:16.860 --> 32:17.860
What the albatross is

32:17.860 --> 32:21.140
Rosebud

32:21.140 --> 32:21.620
You got to learn

32:21.620 --> 32:22.020
How to rose

32:22.020 --> 32:22.880
If you can't make

32:22.880 --> 32:23.780
A proper rosebud

32:23.780 --> 32:24.260
You ought not

32:24.260 --> 32:24.960
Be in college

32:24.960 --> 32:27.980
Can I get an amen

32:27.980 --> 32:28.640
What about that

32:28.640 --> 32:30.140
What is it

32:30.140 --> 32:31.560
Link182.com

32:31.560 --> 32:33.220
What is that one

32:33.220 --> 32:33.560
I don't think

32:33.560 --> 32:33.900
I know that

32:33.900 --> 32:36.500
That's just like

32:36.500 --> 32:37.380
A bunch of links

32:37.380 --> 32:38.660
To other things

32:38.660 --> 32:39.140
And they have

32:39.140 --> 32:39.780
I think it's

32:39.780 --> 32:40.920
Mercrory.com

32:40.920 --> 32:41.360
Or something

32:41.360 --> 32:43.140
The riding dirty link

32:43.140 --> 32:45.220
What about

32:45.220 --> 32:46.280
Hi2U

32:46.280 --> 32:48.860
Hi2U is good

32:48.860 --> 32:49.600
What about the one

32:49.600 --> 32:50.140
That you always

32:50.140 --> 32:51.360
Make the sound for

32:51.360 --> 32:52.280
That was

32:52.280 --> 32:52.560
Hi2U

32:52.560 --> 32:53.580
The face on it

32:53.580 --> 32:54.240
The what

32:54.240 --> 32:55.560
I always

32:55.560 --> 32:55.940
Screwed up

32:55.940 --> 32:56.600
Hi2U

32:56.600 --> 32:57.460
I always tried

32:57.460 --> 32:58.120
To pronounce it

32:58.120 --> 32:58.480
As like

32:58.480 --> 32:58.880
Hi

32:58.880 --> 32:59.540
Hiro

32:59.540 --> 33:00.380
I thought the

33:00.380 --> 33:00.900
Two was like

33:00.900 --> 33:01.320
An R

33:01.320 --> 33:02.000
Elite eyes

33:02.000 --> 33:02.560
Or something

33:02.560 --> 33:04.700
Oh I don't know

33:04.700 --> 33:05.000
Maybe

33:05.000 --> 33:05.620
Which one are you

33:05.620 --> 33:06.120
Talking about

33:06.120 --> 33:06.780
But I don't think

33:06.780 --> 33:07.140
So

33:07.140 --> 33:10.560
It's got like

33:10.560 --> 33:11.520
The Microsoft

33:11.520 --> 33:12.420
Painted on

33:12.420 --> 33:13.320
Two eyes

33:13.320 --> 33:14.880
And it looks

33:14.880 --> 33:16.160
Like a monster's

33:16.160 --> 33:16.500
Mouth

33:16.500 --> 33:17.780
Oh the one

33:17.780 --> 33:18.400
The animated

33:18.400 --> 33:18.860
GIF

33:18.860 --> 33:20.500
Yeah

33:20.500 --> 33:21.640
The ball eater

33:21.640 --> 33:22.280
One that I sent

33:22.280 --> 33:22.380
You

33:22.380 --> 33:22.740
That's the

33:22.740 --> 33:23.200
Greatest thing

33:23.200 --> 33:23.780
Ever on the

33:23.780 --> 33:25.060
Interweb

33:25.060 --> 33:25.580
No the

33:25.580 --> 33:26.120
Greatest thing

33:26.120 --> 33:26.580
Is the way

33:26.580 --> 33:27.500
That you always

33:27.500 --> 33:27.700
Go

33:27.700 --> 33:28.720
Nom nom nom

33:28.720 --> 33:29.560
Nom nom

33:29.560 --> 33:32.780
Nom nom

33:32.780 --> 33:33.280
Nom

33:33.280 --> 33:34.140
It's nom nom

33:34.140 --> 33:34.720
Nom nom

33:34.720 --> 33:35.100
Nom

33:35.100 --> 33:36.880
See I

33:36.880 --> 33:37.520
Can't even do

33:37.520 --> 33:38.540
It's fantastic

33:38.540 --> 33:39.280
Oh shit

33:39.280 --> 33:39.860
That is the

33:39.860 --> 33:40.500
Funniest thing

33:40.500 --> 33:40.880
Ever

33:40.880 --> 33:41.780
Oh my gosh

33:41.780 --> 33:43.560
I defy

33:43.560 --> 33:44.320
Anyone to not

33:44.320 --> 33:44.940
Laugh at that

33:44.940 --> 33:45.240
Picture

33:45.240 --> 33:45.760
That is the

33:45.760 --> 33:46.800
Greatest thing

33:46.800 --> 33:47.220
Ever

33:47.220 --> 33:49.980
Oh man

33:49.980 --> 33:51.520
Well anyway

33:51.520 --> 33:52.820
Wintermute

33:52.820 --> 33:53.300
Went off to

33:53.300 --> 33:53.700
School

33:53.700 --> 33:54.640
And here

33:54.640 --> 33:55.160
You know

33:55.160 --> 33:56.840
Episode 200

33:56.840 --> 33:57.820
Four years

33:57.820 --> 33:58.100
Later

33:58.100 --> 33:59.340
And he's

33:59.340 --> 34:00.020
Almost a

34:00.020 --> 34:01.060
College graduate

34:01.060 --> 34:01.600
So

34:01.600 --> 34:02.800
Man

34:02.800 --> 34:03.960
That puts it

34:03.960 --> 34:04.460
In perspective

34:04.460 --> 34:04.900
How long

34:04.900 --> 34:05.220
It's been

34:05.220 --> 34:05.840
Four years

34:05.840 --> 34:06.300
Long enough

34:06.300 --> 34:06.740
For people

34:06.740 --> 34:08.200
People who

34:08.200 --> 34:08.960
Have heard

34:08.960 --> 34:09.760
Binary Revolution

34:09.760 --> 34:10.320
Radio

34:10.320 --> 34:11.620
Episode 1

34:11.620 --> 34:13.060
Graduating from

34:13.060 --> 34:13.520
College

34:13.520 --> 34:14.480
And we're still

34:14.480 --> 34:14.840
On the air

34:14.840 --> 34:15.220
Through the whole

34:15.220 --> 34:15.600
Process

34:15.600 --> 34:16.020
I mean is there

34:16.020 --> 34:16.800
Anybody out there

34:16.800 --> 34:17.360
Who actually

34:17.360 --> 34:19.060
Has been around

34:19.060 --> 34:19.580
And listened to

34:19.580 --> 34:20.220
Episode 1

34:20.220 --> 34:20.900
All the way up

34:20.900 --> 34:21.420
To 200

34:21.420 --> 34:22.060
And through

34:22.060 --> 34:22.580
Their college

34:22.580 --> 34:22.840
Years

34:22.840 --> 34:23.300
I mean that

34:23.300 --> 34:23.800
Would be an

34:23.800 --> 34:25.200
Amazing story

34:25.200 --> 34:25.700
To hear if there

34:25.700 --> 34:26.060
Was anybody

34:26.060 --> 34:26.780
Actually out there

34:26.780 --> 34:27.520
That did that

34:27.520 --> 34:29.120
And stuck with us

34:29.120 --> 34:29.700
That long

34:29.700 --> 34:33.680
Yeah and

34:33.680 --> 34:34.200
You know what

34:34.200 --> 34:34.360
Else

34:34.360 --> 34:34.660
This

34:34.660 --> 34:35.700
Let's see

34:35.700 --> 34:37.100
We started

34:37.100 --> 34:37.620
Getting

34:37.620 --> 34:39.580
A lot of

34:39.580 --> 34:40.000
Hits from

34:40.000 --> 34:40.740
Tech TV

34:40.740 --> 34:42.740
In our

34:42.740 --> 34:43.500
Log files

34:43.500 --> 34:44.560
Early on

34:44.560 --> 34:45.080
With this show

34:45.080 --> 34:45.800
We were nine

34:45.800 --> 34:47.400
Episodes in

34:47.400 --> 34:48.380
And I guess

34:48.380 --> 34:49.020
Ratings or

34:49.020 --> 34:49.520
Numbers or

34:49.520 --> 34:50.080
Climbing of

34:50.080 --> 34:50.640
Downloads and

34:50.640 --> 34:51.020
Stuff like

34:51.020 --> 34:51.280
That

34:51.280 --> 34:52.020
And I've

34:52.020 --> 34:52.360
Always been

34:52.360 --> 34:52.940
A log dog

34:52.940 --> 34:53.420
I'd go

34:53.420 --> 34:53.980
Digging through

34:53.980 --> 34:54.640
The Apache

34:54.640 --> 34:55.380
Logs to see

34:55.380 --> 34:55.820
Where things

34:55.820 --> 34:56.140
Are coming

34:56.140 --> 34:56.400
From

34:56.400 --> 34:57.020
Or more

34:57.020 --> 34:57.360
Appropriate

34:57.360 --> 34:57.820
Looking at

34:57.820 --> 34:58.380
Some of the

34:58.380 --> 34:58.820
Statistics

34:58.820 --> 34:59.720
Programs to

34:59.720 --> 35:00.700
See where

35:00.700 --> 35:01.240
Links and

35:01.240 --> 35:01.540
Hits are

35:01.540 --> 35:02.040
Coming from

35:02.040 --> 35:02.460
What they're

35:02.460 --> 35:03.000
Looking at

35:03.000 --> 35:03.420
Stuff like

35:03.420 --> 35:03.600
That

35:03.600 --> 35:03.900
I've always

35:03.900 --> 35:04.520
Been big

35:04.520 --> 35:05.340
On analyzing

35:05.340 --> 35:05.760
That sort

35:05.760 --> 35:06.100
Of thing

35:06.100 --> 35:07.800
And there

35:07.800 --> 35:08.060
Was a

35:08.060 --> 35:08.520
Noticeable

35:08.520 --> 35:08.960
Amount of

35:08.960 --> 35:09.420
Hits coming

35:09.420 --> 35:09.840
From tech

35:09.840 --> 35:10.180
TV

35:10.180 --> 35:11.440
Now we've

35:11.440 --> 35:11.760
Never been

35:11.760 --> 35:12.220
On tech

35:12.220 --> 35:13.000
TV and I

35:13.000 --> 35:13.300
Don't know

35:13.300 --> 35:14.160
Exactly why

35:14.160 --> 35:14.560
Or what

35:14.560 --> 35:14.860
Would have

35:14.860 --> 35:15.280
Driven them

35:15.280 --> 35:15.640
Here so

35:15.640 --> 35:16.100
It got me

35:16.100 --> 35:16.680
Digging a

35:16.680 --> 35:17.120
Little bit

35:17.120 --> 35:19.720
And started

35:19.720 --> 35:20.680
Noticing shortly

35:20.680 --> 35:21.740
Thereafter that

35:21.740 --> 35:22.380
A lot of

35:22.380 --> 35:22.980
Topics that

35:22.980 --> 35:23.360
We talked

35:23.360 --> 35:23.720
About on

35:23.720 --> 35:24.000
Binary

35:24.000 --> 35:24.460
Revolution

35:24.460 --> 35:25.840
Radio or

35:25.840 --> 35:26.320
Talked about

35:26.320 --> 35:26.900
In the forums

35:26.900 --> 35:27.340
And things

35:27.340 --> 35:27.960
Like that

35:27.960 --> 35:29.240
Started appearing

35:29.240 --> 35:30.360
As dark

35:30.360 --> 35:31.100
Tips on

35:31.100 --> 35:31.480
The screen

35:31.480 --> 35:31.860
Savers

35:31.860 --> 35:32.400
The show

35:32.400 --> 35:33.160
What is

35:33.160 --> 35:33.480
It's a

35:33.480 --> 35:33.820
Attack of

35:33.820 --> 35:34.140
The show

35:34.140 --> 35:34.600
Now it's

35:34.600 --> 35:34.920
Called

35:34.920 --> 35:36.360
Back then

35:36.360 --> 35:36.640
It was

35:36.640 --> 35:36.920
It used to

35:36.920 --> 35:37.340
The screen

35:37.340 --> 35:37.660
Savers

35:37.660 --> 35:38.340
Yeah and

35:38.340 --> 35:38.640
It's on

35:38.640 --> 35:39.420
G4 is what

35:39.420 --> 35:39.920
The station

35:39.920 --> 35:40.220
Is called

35:40.220 --> 35:40.500
It used to

35:40.500 --> 35:40.820
Be called

35:40.820 --> 35:41.460
Tech TV

35:41.460 --> 35:41.840
Right

35:41.840 --> 35:43.780
And the

35:43.780 --> 35:44.220
Show was

35:44.220 --> 35:44.640
The screen

35:44.640 --> 35:45.100
Savers

35:45.100 --> 35:46.320
And I

35:46.320 --> 35:46.620
Actually

35:46.620 --> 35:46.800
Hold on

35:46.800 --> 35:47.100
A second

35:47.100 --> 35:47.480
When you

35:47.480 --> 35:47.820
Say that

35:47.820 --> 35:48.580
You were

35:48.580 --> 35:48.900
Getting a

35:48.900 --> 35:49.140
Lot of

35:49.140 --> 35:49.420
Hits

35:49.420 --> 35:50.260
From

35:50.260 --> 35:51.160
Tech TV

35:51.160 --> 35:51.420
Do you

35:51.420 --> 35:51.780
Mean like

35:51.780 --> 35:52.340
Tech TV

35:52.340 --> 35:53.140
IP space

35:53.140 --> 35:53.460
Or you're

35:53.460 --> 35:53.960
Getting lots

35:53.960 --> 35:54.440
Of like

35:54.440 --> 35:55.440
Referral

35:55.440 --> 35:55.780
Links

35:55.780 --> 35:56.240
No

35:56.240 --> 35:56.700
Referral

35:56.700 --> 35:56.900
Links

35:56.900 --> 35:57.200
We were

35:57.200 --> 35:57.460
Getting

35:57.460 --> 35:58.260
We were

35:58.260 --> 35:58.520
Actually

35:58.520 --> 35:58.860
Getting

35:58.860 --> 35:59.820
People browsing

35:59.820 --> 36:00.300
From

36:00.300 --> 36:00.920
Tech TV

36:00.920 --> 36:01.440
Domains

36:01.440 --> 36:01.900
Their IP

36:01.900 --> 36:02.340
Resolve

36:02.340 --> 36:02.780
Back to

36:02.780 --> 36:03.340
Tech TV

36:03.340 --> 36:05.000
So somebody

36:05.000 --> 36:05.760
Inside of

36:05.760 --> 36:05.960
It

36:05.960 --> 36:09.460
You know

36:09.460 --> 36:09.900
I

36:09.900 --> 36:11.260
Stopped

36:11.260 --> 36:11.920
Looking for

36:11.920 --> 36:12.340
It only

36:12.340 --> 36:12.780
Caught my

36:12.780 --> 36:12.980
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36:12.980 --> 36:13.520
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36:13.520 --> 36:13.900
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36:13.900 --> 36:14.580
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36:14.580 --> 36:14.980
Amount

36:14.980 --> 36:15.340
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36:15.340 --> 36:15.620
Number

36:15.620 --> 36:15.920
Of them

36:15.920 --> 36:16.500
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36:16.500 --> 36:16.660
They're

36:16.660 --> 36:16.880
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36:16.880 --> 36:17.400
Happening

36:17.400 --> 36:17.780
Or

36:17.780 --> 36:18.780
If they

36:18.780 --> 36:19.060
Kept

36:19.060 --> 36:19.800
Happening

36:19.800 --> 36:20.000
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36:20.000 --> 36:20.220
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36:20.220 --> 36:20.720
Basis

36:20.720 --> 36:21.340
I

36:21.340 --> 36:21.780
Didn't

36:21.780 --> 36:22.920
Follow

36:22.920 --> 36:23.140
It

36:23.140 --> 36:23.420
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36:23.420 --> 36:23.800
Time

36:23.800 --> 36:23.960
To

36:23.960 --> 36:24.100
See

36:24.100 --> 36:24.200
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36:24.200 --> 36:24.340
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36:24.340 --> 36:24.480
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36:24.480 --> 36:24.720
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36:24.720 --> 36:25.020
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36:25.020 --> 36:25.760
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36:25.760 --> 36:25.900
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36:25.900 --> 36:26.100
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36:26.100 --> 36:26.480
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36:26.480 --> 36:26.880
Sites

36:26.880 --> 36:27.100
That

36:27.100 --> 36:27.220
Are

36:27.220 --> 36:27.540
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36:27.540 --> 36:27.720
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36:27.720 --> 36:27.940
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36:27.940 --> 36:28.340
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36:28.340 --> 36:28.520
That

36:28.520 --> 36:28.660
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36:28.660 --> 36:28.880
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36:28.880 --> 36:28.980
Of

36:28.980 --> 36:29.180
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36:31.900 --> 36:33.340
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36:33.340 --> 36:34.000
They

36:34.000 --> 36:34.180
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36:34.180 --> 36:34.340
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36:34.340 --> 36:34.440
Of

36:34.440 --> 36:34.940
Disappeared

36:34.940 --> 36:35.160
Into

36:35.160 --> 36:35.400
The

36:35.400 --> 36:36.040
Into

36:36.040 --> 36:36.200
The

36:36.200 --> 36:36.380
Mix

36:36.380 --> 36:36.520
Of

36:36.520 --> 36:36.660
All

36:36.660 --> 36:36.800
The

36:36.800 --> 36:36.960
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36:36.960 --> 36:37.260
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36:37.260 --> 36:37.420
We

36:37.420 --> 36:37.660
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36:37.660 --> 36:38.280
So

36:38.280 --> 36:38.800
Too

36:38.800 --> 36:39.160
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36:39.160 --> 36:39.300
Of

36:39.300 --> 36:39.380
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36:39.380 --> 36:39.640
Number

36:39.640 --> 36:40.260
Percentage

36:40.260 --> 36:40.600
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36:40.600 --> 36:40.700
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36:40.700 --> 36:40.880
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36:40.880 --> 36:41.120
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36:41.120 --> 36:41.420
Days

36:41.420 --> 36:41.600
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36:41.600 --> 36:41.700
We

36:41.700 --> 36:41.860
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36:41.860 --> 36:42.020
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36:42.020 --> 36:42.140
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36:42.140 --> 36:42.320
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36:42.320 --> 36:42.740
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36:42.740 --> 36:43.620
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36:43.620 --> 36:43.640
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36:43.640 --> 36:43.920
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36:43.920 --> 36:44.140
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36:44.140 --> 36:44.160
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36:44.160 --> 36:44.820
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36:44.820 --> 36:45.100
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36:45.100 --> 36:45.260
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36:45.260 --> 36:45.320
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36:45.320 --> 36:45.460
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36:45.460 --> 36:45.840
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36:45.840 --> 36:47.900
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36:47.900 --> 36:48.140
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36:48.140 --> 36:49.000
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36:49.000 --> 36:49.340
Is it

36:49.340 --> 36:49.820
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36:49.820 --> 36:50.040
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36:50.040 --> 36:50.160
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36:50.160 --> 36:50.300
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36:50.300 --> 36:50.400
Of

36:50.400 --> 36:50.560
Our

36:50.560 --> 36:50.800
Stuff

36:50.800 --> 36:51.060
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36:51.060 --> 36:51.380
Appearing

36:51.380 --> 36:51.520
As

36:51.520 --> 36:51.740
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36:51.740 --> 36:51.960
Tips

36:51.960 --> 36:52.140
On

36:52.140 --> 36:52.260
The

36:52.260 --> 36:52.800
Screensaver

36:52.800 --> 36:53.160
So

36:53.160 --> 36:54.240
You

36:54.240 --> 36:54.440
Know

36:54.440 --> 36:54.900
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36:54.900 --> 36:55.500
Throw

36:55.500 --> 36:55.680
That

36:55.680 --> 36:55.880
Out

36:55.880 --> 36:56.000
There

36:56.000 --> 36:56.120
That

36:56.120 --> 36:56.240
We

36:56.240 --> 36:56.540
Started

36:56.540 --> 36:56.940
Noticing

36:56.940 --> 36:57.180
That

36:57.180 --> 36:57.280
In

36:57.280 --> 36:57.580
Episode

36:57.580 --> 36:58.080
Nine

36:58.080 --> 36:58.360
So

36:58.360 --> 36:58.560
That

36:58.560 --> 36:59.000
Starts

36:59.000 --> 36:59.260
Kind

36:59.260 --> 36:59.340
Of

36:59.340 --> 36:59.460
A

36:59.460 --> 36:59.620
Little

36:59.620 --> 37:00.280
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37:00.280 --> 37:00.400
Or

37:00.400 --> 37:00.480
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37:00.480 --> 37:01.880
Story

37:01.880 --> 37:02.080
That

37:02.080 --> 37:02.300
Comes

37:02.300 --> 37:02.580
Back

37:02.580 --> 37:02.880
Later

37:02.880 --> 37:03.340
On

37:03.340 --> 37:04.440
In

37:04.440 --> 37:04.560
The

37:04.560 --> 37:04.820
Course

37:04.820 --> 37:04.960
Of

37:04.960 --> 37:05.300
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37:05.300 --> 37:05.800
Revolution

37:05.800 --> 37:06.260
Radio

37:06.260 --> 37:08.180
And

37:08.180 --> 37:08.580
Episode

37:08.580 --> 37:09.080
10

37:09.080 --> 37:09.800
Binary

37:09.800 --> 37:10.360
Revolution

37:10.360 --> 37:11.060
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37:11.060 --> 37:12.140
Started

37:12.140 --> 37:12.320
The

37:12.320 --> 37:12.680
Magazine

37:12.680 --> 37:13.240
Something

37:13.240 --> 37:13.440
That

37:13.440 --> 37:13.560
We

37:13.560 --> 37:14.040
Created

37:14.040 --> 37:14.240
That

37:14.240 --> 37:14.420
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37:14.420 --> 37:14.720
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37:14.720 --> 37:14.820
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37:14.820 --> 37:14.980
Be

37:14.980 --> 37:15.240
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37:15.240 --> 37:15.340
Of

37:15.340 --> 37:15.580
Like

37:15.580 --> 37:15.800
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37:15.800 --> 37:16.340
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37:16.340 --> 37:16.460
To

37:16.460 --> 37:17.140
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37:17.140 --> 37:17.320
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37:17.320 --> 37:17.540
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37:17.540 --> 37:17.640
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37:17.640 --> 37:17.720
To

37:17.720 --> 37:17.820
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37:17.820 --> 37:17.900
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37:17.900 --> 37:18.000
Little

37:18.000 --> 37:18.120
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37:18.120 --> 37:18.300
More

37:18.300 --> 37:18.700
Technical

37:18.700 --> 37:20.600
I

37:20.600 --> 37:21.260
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37:21.260 --> 37:21.680
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37:21.680 --> 37:22.100
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37:22.100 --> 37:22.440
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37:22.440 --> 37:22.920
Magazine

37:22.920 --> 37:24.220
That

37:24.220 --> 37:24.360
Was

37:24.360 --> 37:24.520
Like

37:24.520 --> 37:24.660
My

37:24.660 --> 37:25.060
Favorite

37:25.060 --> 37:25.400
Thing

37:25.400 --> 37:25.640
I

37:25.640 --> 37:25.920
Hate

37:25.920 --> 37:26.100
To

37:26.100 --> 37:26.380
Admit

37:26.380 --> 37:26.580
This

37:26.580 --> 37:26.700
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37:26.700 --> 37:26.820
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37:26.820 --> 37:27.000
Show

37:27.000 --> 37:27.260
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37:27.260 --> 37:27.440
But

37:27.440 --> 37:27.620
I

37:27.620 --> 37:27.820
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37:27.820 --> 37:27.980
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37:27.980 --> 37:28.140
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37:28.140 --> 37:28.340
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37:28.340 --> 37:28.480
That

37:28.480 --> 37:28.780
Magazine

37:28.780 --> 37:29.040
More

37:29.040 --> 37:29.180
Than

37:35.800 --> 37:36.340
Really

37:36.340 --> 37:36.620
Cool

37:36.620 --> 37:36.820
To

37:36.820 --> 37:36.960
See

37:36.960 --> 37:37.260
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37:37.260 --> 37:38.180
Full

37:38.180 --> 37:38.540
Circle

37:38.540 --> 37:38.800
So

37:38.800 --> 37:38.940
I

37:38.940 --> 37:39.080
Can

37:39.080 --> 37:39.240
See

37:39.240 --> 37:39.400
How

37:39.400 --> 37:39.500
You

37:39.500 --> 37:39.600
Would

37:39.600 --> 37:39.780
Like

37:39.780 --> 37:40.020
That

37:40.020 --> 37:40.360
Better

37:40.360 --> 37:40.480
Than

37:40.480 --> 37:40.600
The

37:40.600 --> 37:40.800
Show

37:40.800 --> 37:41.100
It

37:41.100 --> 37:41.160
Was

37:41.160 --> 37:41.320
Easy

37:41.320 --> 37:41.520
To

37:41.520 --> 37:41.740
Churn

37:41.740 --> 37:41.940
Out

37:41.940 --> 37:42.220
Getting

37:42.220 --> 37:42.400
A

37:42.400 --> 37:42.840
Printed

37:42.840 --> 37:43.240
Finished

37:43.240 --> 37:43.600
Product

37:43.600 --> 37:43.900
Nailed

37:43.900 --> 37:44.000
To

37:44.000 --> 37:44.440
People

37:44.440 --> 37:45.000
That

37:45.000 --> 37:45.160
Takes

37:45.160 --> 37:45.280
A

37:45.280 --> 37:45.420
Lot

37:45.420 --> 37:45.500
Of

37:45.500 --> 37:45.740
Work

37:45.740 --> 37:46.000
So

37:46.000 --> 37:46.080
It

37:46.080 --> 37:46.240
Pretty

37:46.240 --> 37:46.780
Satisfying

37:46.780 --> 37:46.940
When

37:46.940 --> 37:47.040
It

37:47.040 --> 37:47.240
Done

37:47.240 --> 37:47.380
I

37:47.380 --> 37:47.600
Think

37:47.600 --> 37:47.920
Yeah

37:47.920 --> 37:48.160
And

37:48.160 --> 37:48.320
To

37:48.320 --> 37:48.900
Do

37:48.900 --> 37:49.020
It

37:49.020 --> 37:49.160
The

37:49.160 --> 37:49.540
Way

37:49.540 --> 37:50.640
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37:50.640 --> 37:50.840
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37:50.840 --> 37:50.960
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37:50.960 --> 37:51.100
Way

37:51.100 --> 37:51.260
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37:51.260 --> 37:51.700
Envisioned

37:51.700 --> 37:51.800
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37:51.800 --> 37:51.940
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37:51.940 --> 37:52.160
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37:52.160 --> 37:52.640
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37:52.640 --> 37:52.900
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37:52.900 --> 37:53.140
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37:53.140 --> 37:54.060
Logan

37:54.060 --> 37:54.340
And

37:54.340 --> 37:54.700
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38:05.800 --> 38:05.960
Want To

38:05.960 --> 38:06.300
Design

38:06.300 --> 38:06.500
Like

38:06.500 --> 38:06.740
That

38:06.740 --> 38:06.880
Here

38:06.880 --> 38:06.980
Is

38:06.980 --> 38:07.120
The

38:07.120 --> 38:07.540
Theme

38:07.540 --> 38:07.740
What

38:07.740 --> 38:07.860
If

38:07.860 --> 38:07.940
We

38:07.940 --> 38:08.120
Did

38:08.120 --> 38:08.500
This

38:08.500 --> 38:09.620
And

38:09.620 --> 38:09.800
They

38:09.800 --> 38:10.040
Made

38:10.040 --> 38:10.180
It

38:10.180 --> 38:10.680
Happen

38:10.680 --> 38:10.920
And

38:10.920 --> 38:11.120
Even

38:11.120 --> 38:11.480
Better

38:11.480 --> 38:11.700
Than

38:11.700 --> 38:11.820
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38:11.820 --> 38:12.040
Ever

38:12.040 --> 38:12.400
Thought

38:12.400 --> 38:12.660
So

38:12.660 --> 38:12.820
I

38:12.820 --> 38:12.960
Mean

38:12.960 --> 38:13.120
I

38:13.120 --> 38:13.260
Was

38:13.260 --> 38:13.480
So

38:13.480 --> 38:14.220
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38:14.220 --> 38:14.480
Of

38:14.480 --> 38:14.620
What

38:14.620 --> 38:14.760
We

38:14.760 --> 38:14.960
Put

38:14.960 --> 38:15.140
Out

38:15.140 --> 38:15.360
And

38:15.360 --> 38:15.480
The

38:15.480 --> 38:16.140
Articles

38:16.140 --> 38:16.340
And

38:16.340 --> 38:16.460
The

38:16.460 --> 38:16.840
Quality

38:16.840 --> 38:17.080
Of

38:17.080 --> 38:17.280
That

38:17.280 --> 38:17.380
We

38:17.380 --> 38:17.560
Put

38:17.560 --> 38:17.800
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38:17.800 --> 38:18.800
That

38:18.800 --> 38:18.960
Was

38:18.960 --> 38:19.220
Something

38:19.220 --> 38:19.480
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38:19.480 --> 38:19.700
Was

38:19.700 --> 38:20.080
Really

38:20.080 --> 38:20.320
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38:20.320 --> 38:20.620
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38:20.620 --> 38:20.740
Of

38:20.740 --> 38:20.860
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38:20.860 --> 38:20.940
It

38:20.940 --> 38:21.060
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38:21.060 --> 38:21.340
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38:21.340 --> 38:21.740
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38:21.740 --> 38:22.540
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38:22.540 --> 38:23.460
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38:23.460 --> 38:23.740
Put

38:23.740 --> 38:23.940
Out

38:23.940 --> 38:24.060
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38:24.060 --> 38:24.500
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38:24.500 --> 38:24.800
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38:24.800 --> 38:25.020
Well

38:25.020 --> 38:25.160
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38:25.160 --> 38:25.180
I

38:25.180 --> 38:25.460
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38:25.460 --> 38:25.640
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38:25.640 --> 38:25.820
This

38:25.820 --> 38:26.140
Radio

38:26.140 --> 38:26.380
Show

38:26.380 --> 38:26.520
We

38:26.520 --> 38:26.820
Talked

38:26.820 --> 38:27.100
About

38:27.100 --> 38:27.880
You

38:27.880 --> 38:27.940
Know

38:27.940 --> 38:28.060
How

38:28.060 --> 38:28.220
Much

38:28.220 --> 38:28.500
Time

38:28.500 --> 38:28.640
We

38:28.640 --> 38:28.800
Put

38:28.800 --> 38:29.020
Into

38:29.020 --> 38:29.160
It

38:29.160 --> 38:29.220
And

38:29.220 --> 38:29.320
How

38:29.320 --> 38:29.540
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38:29.540 --> 38:29.640
It

38:29.640 --> 38:29.780
Is

38:29.780 --> 38:29.900
To

38:29.900 --> 38:30.000
Do

38:30.000 --> 38:30.120
It

38:30.120 --> 38:30.300
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38:30.300 --> 38:30.560
Week

38:30.560 --> 38:30.740
But

38:30.740 --> 38:30.860
A

38:30.860 --> 38:31.360
Magazine

38:31.360 --> 38:32.860
Especially

38:32.860 --> 38:33.180
Getting

38:33.180 --> 38:33.360
The

38:33.360 --> 38:33.720
Content

38:33.720 --> 38:34.080
For

38:34.080 --> 38:34.240
It

38:34.240 --> 38:34.960
Content

38:34.960 --> 38:35.160
For

38:35.160 --> 38:35.260
The

38:35.260 --> 38:35.500
Radio

38:35.500 --> 38:35.820
Show

38:35.820 --> 38:36.040
I

38:36.040 --> 38:36.220
Have

38:36.220 --> 38:36.340
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38:36.340 --> 38:36.500
Say

38:36.500 --> 38:36.820
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38:36.820 --> 38:37.120
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38:37.120 --> 38:37.360
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38:37.360 --> 38:37.540
To

38:37.540 --> 38:37.680
Me

38:37.680 --> 38:37.800
For

38:37.800 --> 38:37.900
The

38:37.900 --> 38:38.100
Most

38:38.100 --> 38:38.280
Part

38:38.280 --> 38:38.400
To

38:38.400 --> 38:38.520
Be

38:38.520 --> 38:38.920
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38:38.920 --> 38:39.820
I

38:39.820 --> 38:40.440
Always

38:40.440 --> 38:40.660
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38:40.660 --> 38:40.960
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38:40.960 --> 38:41.260
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38:41.260 --> 38:41.680
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38:41.680 --> 38:41.980
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38:41.980 --> 38:42.400
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38:42.400 --> 38:42.580
Up

38:42.580 --> 38:42.780
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38:42.780 --> 38:43.180
Things

38:43.180 --> 38:43.520
And

38:43.520 --> 38:44.540
Have

38:44.540 --> 38:44.920
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38:44.920 --> 38:45.120
That

38:45.120 --> 38:45.280
Have

38:55.180 --> 38:55.340
Thought

38:55.340 --> 38:55.500
Of

38:55.500 --> 38:55.600
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38:55.600 --> 38:55.680
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38:55.680 --> 38:55.940
Last

38:55.940 --> 38:56.120
Minute

38:56.120 --> 38:56.320
There

38:56.320 --> 38:56.540
Wasn't

38:56.540 --> 38:56.680
As

38:56.680 --> 38:56.840
Much

38:56.840 --> 38:57.420
Preparation

38:57.420 --> 38:57.780
Put

38:57.780 --> 38:58.000
Into

38:58.000 --> 38:58.220
Them

38:58.220 --> 38:58.320
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38:58.320 --> 38:58.400
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38:58.400 --> 38:58.420
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38:58.420 --> 38:58.440
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38:58.440 --> 38:58.460
I

38:58.460 --> 38:58.480
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38:58.480 --> 38:58.980
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38:58.980 --> 38:59.480
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38:59.480 --> 39:00.080
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39:00.080 --> 39:00.280
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39:00.280 --> 39:00.580
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39:00.580 --> 39:00.680
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39:00.680 --> 39:02.080
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39:02.080 --> 39:02.380
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39:02.380 --> 39:04.080
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39:04.080 --> 39:04.380
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39:04.380 --> 39:04.480
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39:04.480 --> 39:04.580
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39:04.580 --> 39:04.680
I

39:04.680 --> 39:04.780
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39:04.780 --> 39:04.880
I

39:04.880 --> 39:04.980
I

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And people have emailed me making suggestions.

39:57.500 --> 39:59.380
They really don't know the detail of this.

39:59.460 --> 40:02.860
To get carried into store shelves, it's not easy.

40:03.440 --> 40:05.780
And self-publishing is not the solution.

40:05.920 --> 40:10.860
We did self-publishing, if you want to call it that, as far as we did the design, layout.

40:10.860 --> 40:14.820
I went and found a local printer, negotiated a good price, got them printed.

40:15.480 --> 40:18.720
And just like the shirts, they sit in my garage for a long time.

40:19.660 --> 40:24.820
I actually do still have a few issues of the magazines laying here and there

40:24.820 --> 40:28.820
that I finally picked up the last few from Logos X, actually, was hanging on to them.

40:29.280 --> 40:34.060
So I do have a few issues of the magazine that maybe we'll do something with

40:34.060 --> 40:35.840
or release on the website at some point.

40:37.060 --> 40:39.260
But, yeah, the financial difficulties.

40:39.440 --> 40:43.400
I mean, in the very beginning, we were actually getting these printed at Kinko's.

40:43.400 --> 40:47.140
We were literally going down to Kinko's with a PDF file and saying,

40:47.300 --> 40:49.320
print me five copies of this.

40:49.900 --> 40:56.000
And it was costing us about $5.20 to get the magazine printed that we were selling for five bucks.

40:57.160 --> 40:58.360
Plus, we were eating the books.

40:58.360 --> 40:59.340
That doesn't really make good business sense.

40:59.540 --> 41:00.020
Yeah, I know.

41:00.100 --> 41:02.200
Well, you know, we just wanted to get it out there.

41:02.280 --> 41:05.020
We just wanted people to enjoy and see the magazine, you know.

41:05.460 --> 41:07.400
And we were eating the shipping costs on that.

41:07.400 --> 41:11.120
And, again, we were so small at the time, it was just kind of a circle of friends type deal.

41:11.120 --> 41:14.660
So, you know, it wasn't like we were in it necessarily to make money.

41:14.980 --> 41:16.620
It would have been nice if it would have broke even.

41:16.940 --> 41:24.660
But, gosh, the first few, if you want one of the really true original first issues of Binary Revolution

41:24.660 --> 41:30.660
or BR Magazine ever printed, it was printed at Kinko's on the same type of paper.

41:31.240 --> 41:36.840
Later on, when I did get some cash saved up, I printed nice hard cardstock covers,

41:36.840 --> 41:40.680
a little bit thicker, looked a lot nicer, nice glossy white interior.

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But those early ones we printed off at Kinko's were shiny ink printed on an inkjet printer by Kinko's.

41:49.540 --> 41:51.900
The cover was the same type of paper as the interior.

41:52.120 --> 41:52.960
They were all identical.

41:53.340 --> 41:55.380
I think it wasn't staggered properly.

41:55.880 --> 42:00.380
It still looked great, don't get me wrong, but it certainly was obvious that it was kind of a hack job.

42:00.420 --> 42:02.120
And, actually, do you remember this story?

42:02.180 --> 42:03.020
I'll let you tell this story.

42:03.020 --> 42:06.080
I remember, was it Hope 5?

42:07.500 --> 42:12.260
That you and I were like out, we sold out of the 50 or whatever that I brought,

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so I didn't know anything about you in New York, and you took me down to Kinko's.

42:18.220 --> 42:20.220
Remember, we went to like three or four that were closed?

42:21.340 --> 42:21.920
Oh, yeah.

42:22.200 --> 42:22.680
Remember that?

42:22.680 --> 42:25.840
I was always under the impression that Kinko's in Manhattan is 24 hours everywhere.

42:25.920 --> 42:28.600
I'm always under the impression that almost everything in Manhattan is 24 hours.

42:29.480 --> 42:33.640
So, yeah, you and I decided, oh, we'll just, you know, walk to a Kinko's that's nearby.

42:33.820 --> 42:36.480
And there was one that was nearby, but not that nearby.

42:36.740 --> 42:40.920
So we went to the first one, and they were closed up, and they're like, nope, we can't print anything.

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So, we walked to the next one, and they're like, nope, we're closed up, we can't print anything.

42:46.360 --> 42:49.180
So, we must have gone to at least three or four of these things.

42:49.340 --> 42:51.320
I don't even remember if we got it done.

42:51.740 --> 42:52.700
Yeah, the next to the last.

42:52.700 --> 42:58.920
At the end of it, I mean, we must have had to walk back, I don't know, 45 blocks to get back to the hotel.

42:59.020 --> 42:59.680
No, no, no.

42:59.680 --> 43:00.280
It was a long trip back.

43:00.280 --> 43:02.160
No, here, I'm going to refresh your memory.

43:03.220 --> 43:07.520
We ended up taking a stinky-ass cab back because we were both too lazy to walk back.

43:08.780 --> 43:09.580
Ah, okay.

43:09.580 --> 43:10.260
Yeah, we...

43:10.260 --> 43:13.380
Because I remember we were real far away, but I don't remember taking a cab back.

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Well, because each Kinko's was only, you know, we kept saying, oh, well, the next one's only a few more blocks, but it was closed.

43:18.880 --> 43:20.880
And the next one, oh, it's a few more blocks, but it's closed.

43:21.160 --> 43:28.300
And we ended up doing this, and we ended up being so far away, the next to the last one had a sign up that says,

43:28.680 --> 43:32.800
sorry, we're closed, go to the 24-hour Kinko's on such and such.

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And you knew where that was, and we made that final walk to that one.

43:36.440 --> 43:37.480
We dropped it off for them.

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They said it'd be done for us in the morning.

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So we dropped it off for them, and they told us what time to come back and pick it up.

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And we were like, hey, it has to be ready now.

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So we ended up getting a cab.

43:49.300 --> 43:51.120
It was like 2, 3 a.m. now.

43:51.200 --> 43:52.300
It was several hours later.

43:52.760 --> 43:57.340
We got a cab back, and the worst-smelling cab I'd ever been in in my life.

43:58.860 --> 44:00.080
And came back to the hotel.

44:00.080 --> 44:02.240
I guess I blocked that part of the story out of my mind.

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Yeah, I guess so.

44:03.220 --> 44:05.840
Maybe the fumes got to you or something.

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And then, I don't know if it was you and I.

44:08.820 --> 44:12.600
I know it was me, and it might have been you again that next morning.

44:12.600 --> 44:15.520
Was that the night you peed on Natas?

44:15.560 --> 44:16.380
No, that was at DEF CON.

44:16.780 --> 44:17.700
It was the next morning.

44:17.920 --> 44:18.240
Yeah, that was it.

44:18.540 --> 44:18.940
Oh, that's right.

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That was the night you slept in my closet, remember?

44:22.740 --> 44:23.440
Oh, my God.

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In the Hotel Pennsylvania.

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You slept in our closet.

44:25.980 --> 44:26.700
I remember that.

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Oh, yeah, I guess I didn't go with you the next day, because I had to work both that

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night and the next day, but at Hope, and I had to go home and do some work and come back.

44:37.900 --> 44:39.040
That was a big mess for me.

44:39.160 --> 44:39.520
Yeah, that was...

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But, yeah, I remember sleeping on the floor in the closet.

44:42.560 --> 44:43.620
That was awesome.

44:44.420 --> 44:45.240
That was terrible.

44:47.760 --> 44:52.200
But, yeah, anyway, we ended up going back and getting 100 copies printed, took them back

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to Hope, and was selling them at a little table there for $5 again.

44:55.020 --> 44:56.020
And it cost us...

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Now, because I got them in big...

44:57.340 --> 45:00.960
We got them done in batches of four or five at a time.

45:01.080 --> 45:04.820
Dool did it to his kinkos and myself, and they were costing us right at $5 a piece to

45:04.820 --> 45:05.040
do.

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When I did them in a little bit bigger quantity of 100, I got printed off that batch.

45:09.940 --> 45:16.940
I think the price broke down to $4.25, and we were selling them for $5 at Hope, so we

45:16.940 --> 45:17.860
didn't have to pay the shipping.

45:18.100 --> 45:22.120
So, we actually made like $0.75 per issue or something like that.

45:22.120 --> 45:26.640
But, I don't even think we sold all 100, and I think I lost a box.

45:27.380 --> 45:29.660
I think I left it in the closet or something there.

45:29.720 --> 45:31.760
So, somebody got a whole box of BR magazines.

45:32.520 --> 45:34.580
So, somebody else might have been selling them against us.

45:34.620 --> 45:36.900
We were competing against someone else selling our own magazine.

45:38.220 --> 45:42.280
But, I ended up, I think, taking some of them home.

45:42.360 --> 45:43.820
We didn't sell them all the rest of them.

45:43.820 --> 45:44.760
I think we sold most of them.

45:44.760 --> 45:49.300
But, we certainly didn't make back in the money that we ever invested into those first

45:49.300 --> 45:50.640
few issues of the magazine.

45:51.200 --> 45:54.800
And, frankly, we still have never broken even on all the magazines that we ever printed.

45:54.900 --> 45:55.300
We have never.

45:55.380 --> 45:56.760
So, I'm still in the hole for that.

45:58.200 --> 46:01.420
So, that's another reason that the magazine kind of fell to the wayside.

46:02.140 --> 46:05.980
Creativity, getting people to write articles, contribute, and stuff like that, and getting

46:05.980 --> 46:07.500
people to support it financially.

46:07.500 --> 46:14.640
And, getting it on store shelves is another difficult thing because you don't get paid.

46:15.000 --> 46:17.480
First of all, getting someone to carry a magazine is hard.

46:17.900 --> 46:21.580
There's a couple of, I guess, I don't know if you say monopoly, but there's a very small

46:21.580 --> 46:26.940
number of distributors to carry a magazine, and they're all about the money.

46:27.060 --> 46:30.300
You have to actually convince them that they're going to make money selling your magazine.

46:30.480 --> 46:33.200
So, you've got a big sales pitch to put up, first of all.

46:33.800 --> 46:35.120
And, I think I can overcome that.

46:35.120 --> 46:38.440
I can social engineer my way through just about any situation like that.

46:38.760 --> 46:44.560
But, the second part of that is you're responsible for all of the printing and everything else

46:44.560 --> 46:46.100
that goes into it in most cases.

46:46.700 --> 46:52.400
So, I would have to come out of pocket to print off all the magazines that I then give to the

46:52.400 --> 46:56.540
distributor, which includes paying for the shipping and all that kind of stuff to get

46:56.540 --> 46:59.460
them to a distributor, who then redistributes them.

47:00.120 --> 47:04.040
Well, even if I had the money, first of all, you have to print off enough to make it worth

47:04.040 --> 47:04.360
their while.

47:04.360 --> 47:07.580
You can't say, oh, I can only afford 100, so just take these 100.

47:07.960 --> 47:10.240
They're going to laugh at, you know, that's not worth their while.

47:10.660 --> 47:14.600
You have to take them, you know, 10,000 magazines or more.

47:15.120 --> 47:18.140
So, if you do a little quick math, you'll see how much that money adds up.

47:18.780 --> 47:25.260
And then, the second thing is, the way the cycle works, you don't get paid any of the money

47:25.260 --> 47:28.260
for sales of your magazine until the cycle completes.

47:28.260 --> 47:31.800
So, we give them issue one of the magazine, for example.

47:32.700 --> 47:33.860
They go out and sell it.

47:33.860 --> 47:39.580
By the time it's ready to do issue two, let's say we were quarterly, like 2,600 or twice

47:39.580 --> 47:40.360
a year or whatever.

47:40.440 --> 47:41.000
That's another thing.

47:41.060 --> 47:42.240
It has to be regular releases.

47:43.060 --> 47:44.840
Let's say we release the next one quarterly.

47:44.980 --> 47:46.680
Three months later, we give them issue two.

47:47.620 --> 47:50.720
They're selling, taking two and distributing it and selling it everywhere.

47:50.720 --> 47:57.720
While they calculate how many sales and the accounting behind issue one, and then account

47:57.720 --> 48:01.520
for the returns or the ones that aren't sold, and they deduct that from your pay.

48:01.580 --> 48:04.000
If they didn't sell it, they keep the magazines.

48:04.280 --> 48:08.340
Theoretically, they're supposed to destroy them or send them back to you if you want to

48:08.340 --> 48:12.960
pay for the cost to have them shipped back to you, and deduct that from the sales, what

48:12.960 --> 48:14.680
they got stuck with eating the cost of.

48:15.020 --> 48:18.440
And then, when all that's said and done, they cut you a check.

48:18.440 --> 48:23.020
Well, it takes about three magazine cycles, so by the time we're releasing the third issue,

48:23.820 --> 48:27.740
only then would I finally start to be getting some money and some checks back from issue number

48:27.740 --> 48:31.020
one that was on sale at this point, what, nine months earlier.

48:32.160 --> 48:34.080
So, it's really hard to do.

48:34.140 --> 48:38.980
You have to be able to fund, out of pocket, three full print runs, whatever those runs

48:38.980 --> 48:42.220
may be, before you're ever going to see a dime back on that.

48:42.720 --> 48:44.200
So, guys, I'm sorry.

48:44.280 --> 48:45.840
I can print off a few at Kinko's.

48:45.840 --> 48:49.320
I can print off maybe a batch of 100, some t-shirts, you know.

48:49.620 --> 48:58.640
I spent a couple grand printing off the magazines in batches of 100 each, and that was just

48:58.640 --> 48:59.260
the best I could do.

48:59.320 --> 49:00.120
That's all I could afford.

49:00.120 --> 49:06.720
So, I did have an offer from another company, who shall remain nameless, who wanted to take

49:06.720 --> 49:12.460
over BinRev Magazine and distribute it and everything, but they wanted to take complete

49:12.460 --> 49:16.960
creative control, put ads in the magazine, which we didn't do, and things like that, and

49:16.960 --> 49:18.440
I was not willing to give that up to them.

49:18.500 --> 49:19.360
I didn't want to sell out.

49:19.580 --> 49:20.920
So, I did not do that.

49:20.920 --> 49:24.080
So, there you go.

49:24.140 --> 49:27.060
There's a bigger man than me, spending thousands of dollars on printing the magazine.

49:27.260 --> 49:31.660
I would have, no way I would have invested that much, not knowing where it was going

49:31.660 --> 49:31.860
to go.

49:32.220 --> 49:32.540
Exactly.

49:32.600 --> 49:34.000
Well, I treated it like a hobby, you know.

49:34.120 --> 49:34.840
It was fun.

49:34.940 --> 49:39.560
I enjoyed it, and, you know, as long as I was doing it in small batches and could recoup

49:39.560 --> 49:44.440
most of the money, part of the money, most of the money, then, you know, I could eat the

49:44.440 --> 49:44.620
cost.

49:44.660 --> 49:47.740
Just like I've eaten the cost of the server all these years.

49:48.200 --> 49:53.520
Ever since BinRev was inceptive, the inception of BinRev, I've been coming out of pocket paying

49:53.520 --> 49:54.460
for the server costs.

49:54.460 --> 49:57.500
And let me tell you how much those server costs have grown these days.

49:57.500 --> 50:06.280
I mean, go out there and do some prices and see what you can get for a, we're on a dual,

50:07.280 --> 50:14.020
okay, let me say this, a dual, okay, let me rephrase it this way, two dual core Xeon processors.

50:16.600 --> 50:18.840
Are we on four or eight gigs of RAM now?

50:18.880 --> 50:19.220
I forgot.

50:19.220 --> 50:21.220
I think we're on four gigs of RAM.

50:23.360 --> 50:25.380
Two 300 gig hard drives.

50:25.380 --> 50:34.160
And we finally, on this last upgrade, last server change with KaroNet, switched to an

50:34.160 --> 50:36.100
unmetered bandwidth model.

50:36.940 --> 50:39.820
So go out and do some price checking to see how much that'll cost you if you want to.

50:39.900 --> 50:42.000
That's what runs Binary Revolution right now.

50:42.040 --> 50:47.800
That's what runs BinRev.com, StankDog.com, DigitalDogPound.org, et cetera, et cetera,

50:47.940 --> 50:48.480
DocDroppers.

50:49.200 --> 50:50.140
That's what runs those.

50:50.220 --> 50:54.560
That's the kind of power that it takes to run the traffic and the bandwidth that we're getting

50:54.560 --> 50:55.320
to the site now.

50:55.880 --> 50:56.680
And that's not cheap.

50:57.220 --> 51:01.320
So Karo's done very good by us, gave us a great deal negotiating in the price, so they've

51:01.320 --> 51:02.180
been very good to us.

51:02.440 --> 51:05.500
So I guess to a certain extent, we may not have jumped the chart, but we may have sold

51:05.500 --> 51:06.240
out a little bit there.

51:06.340 --> 51:08.700
But, boy, it's been more than worth it in my eyes.

51:09.800 --> 51:13.000
Hey, you know, unless somebody's willing to help you flip the bill, at some point you

51:13.000 --> 51:13.400
have to.

51:13.460 --> 51:14.740
You just can't afford to keep paying for it.

51:14.880 --> 51:16.560
Unmetered machines are not cheap.

51:16.560 --> 51:20.420
And you're going to need it this month when this show finally comes out.

51:21.060 --> 51:24.820
Each person's going to download 75 megabytes or whatever it ends up being.

51:24.920 --> 51:26.080
It's going to be huge.

51:26.400 --> 51:28.520
This file size is going to be gigantic.

51:29.980 --> 51:33.860
Yeah, you're probably going to get a call from the ISP being like, wait a second, this

51:33.860 --> 51:34.780
isn't part of the deal.

51:35.000 --> 51:35.140
Yeah.

51:35.600 --> 51:37.060
Unmetered doesn't mean unmetered.

51:37.840 --> 51:38.260
It better.

51:38.260 --> 51:40.620
Yeah, well, if it's Verizon, it doesn't mean unmetered.

51:40.700 --> 51:41.600
Yeah, of course.

51:42.600 --> 51:43.040
Exactly.

51:44.980 --> 51:45.880
So, there you go.

51:45.920 --> 51:47.480
There's a nice little back story about that.

51:48.100 --> 51:48.600
Let's see.

51:48.680 --> 51:50.880
Let's move on to Episode 11, Voodoo How.

51:52.400 --> 51:55.420
See, Voodoo How did something that I thought was really cool about this time.

51:55.520 --> 51:58.640
He started these classes and lectures in IRC.

51:58.780 --> 52:02.900
We had IRC on, I think we were on esper.net at that time, I think.

52:03.180 --> 52:03.960
Yeah, I think you're right.

52:04.080 --> 52:05.600
Might have been over at Freenode by then.

52:05.660 --> 52:06.660
I think it was still on Esper.

52:07.180 --> 52:10.660
And we thought, you know, one of the things we wanted to do was do kind of a mentoring thing

52:10.660 --> 52:11.460
and teaching thing.

52:11.620 --> 52:14.160
And we really wanted to tie it to the show.

52:14.300 --> 52:19.640
Whatever the topic of the show was, we wanted to ideally have maybe weekly IRC lessons on

52:19.640 --> 52:20.600
the topic at hand.

52:21.180 --> 52:23.620
That obviously became too overwhelming.

52:23.800 --> 52:28.700
But Voodoo How did a couple classes and lectures on some programming topics.

52:28.700 --> 52:30.100
And I thought that was really cool.

52:30.220 --> 52:36.420
I think I have some transcripts, text file transcripts of it somewhere on a drive, somewhere in this

52:36.420 --> 52:37.140
freaking room.

52:38.060 --> 52:41.240
Or probably, I think some people actually have it out in the interweb somewhere as well.

52:42.740 --> 52:46.280
I know White Belga Raven Thought Poet had them somewhere on his site.

52:46.420 --> 52:48.360
But I digress.

52:50.080 --> 52:52.660
There's an inside joke for people who've been around for a long time.

52:53.160 --> 52:54.180
They might remember that.

52:54.300 --> 52:55.300
Let's not get into it.

52:55.300 --> 52:58.340
Yeah, please, so we don't want the hacker pimp back on us.

52:58.860 --> 53:03.980
We don't want to get on the bad side of the hacker pimp, pagan, wicked, whatever the hell.

53:05.460 --> 53:06.540
Whatever happened to that?

53:06.680 --> 53:07.180
Never mind.

53:07.840 --> 53:08.860
The cartoon project.

53:09.640 --> 53:11.060
That never happened to either, do I?

53:11.540 --> 53:12.420
The phalanx.

53:13.220 --> 53:19.120
Well, yeah, you know, it's an interesting project, but I have no art skills.

53:19.240 --> 53:23.540
I have somebody who's interested in doing it, but I just don't get to meet up with them enough

53:23.540 --> 53:28.800
to make it happen, so until that changes, there's really no chance for that project.

53:28.880 --> 53:34.320
As cool as it would be, definitely, it would be the best project I've been involved with

53:34.320 --> 53:35.200
in quite a few times.

53:35.260 --> 53:37.380
It would be so awesome.

53:38.160 --> 53:39.220
It would be so fun.

53:39.280 --> 53:43.680
Hey, anybody out there listening, if you've got some cartoon skills, some graphics as in

53:43.680 --> 53:46.180
drawing comic books, you might want to contact us.

53:46.200 --> 53:47.640
We might have some work for you to do.

53:47.640 --> 53:50.200
Let's see, where do we go from there?

53:50.280 --> 53:54.860
Let's see, episode 12, well, we have the obligatory how to make a radio show, so this

53:54.860 --> 54:00.420
was the obligatory how to make Hack TV, how to make a video show with Saito 187, a good

54:00.420 --> 54:02.600
friend of mine from In Real Life.

54:02.680 --> 54:09.920
He's actually, this episode actually coincided with the first full release of the real episode

54:09.920 --> 54:13.100
of Hack TV, the non-pilot, the actual episode one.

54:13.100 --> 54:20.400
We released pilots beforehand, we released a proof of concept pilot very early, just to

54:20.400 --> 54:24.380
see if there was any interest, and it was not even edited together really very well, it

54:24.380 --> 54:31.580
was just clips thrown together, so we released our final pilot about the same time that The

54:31.580 --> 54:34.660
Broken, that show from Kevin Rose called The Broken, came out.

54:34.740 --> 54:41.180
They released episode one about the same time as our official pilot came out, and it was kind

54:41.180 --> 54:47.800
of funny because, or not funny, it was weird actually, it was awkward because everybody

54:47.800 --> 54:52.420
made it to be that there was some big war or something between Hack TV and The Broken,

54:53.060 --> 54:54.760
and that was never really the case.

54:54.860 --> 54:56.080
It really, really wasn't.

54:56.140 --> 55:00.820
I mean, we may have had some issues with Kevin Rose along the days, but we don't care,

55:00.900 --> 55:05.340
never really cared, or we're never at any war between our show and theirs.

55:05.340 --> 55:10.780
I mean, our show came out, our first pilot was the first one ever out there, the early

55:10.780 --> 55:11.200
pilot.

55:12.200 --> 55:15.860
I don't know if they got the idea from that, I don't care if they did, it doesn't really

55:15.860 --> 55:24.620
matter, but they released shows faster than we did, I think.

55:24.880 --> 55:28.000
Well, I'm certain of that because we definitely didn't release shows very quickly.

55:28.740 --> 55:32.360
And people from, they started forums and stuff like that, and there was, sometimes people

55:32.360 --> 55:36.600
would come over from there saying we copied them, sometimes people from our forums would

55:36.600 --> 55:38.440
go over there and say that they copied us.

55:39.000 --> 55:40.460
We were never involved with that.

55:40.960 --> 55:46.460
So, some of the beef maybe there actually had nothing to do with me, but other people were

55:46.460 --> 55:51.500
going out there on their own accord and trying to stir stuff up, stir up the drama and stuff

55:51.500 --> 55:51.860
like that.

55:51.920 --> 55:53.440
We were never involved in any of that.

55:54.080 --> 55:57.600
Same thing I said about the radio show goes true for a video show.

55:57.680 --> 55:59.680
We want people to make them.

55:59.740 --> 56:01.640
That's why we did episodes of How to Do It.

56:01.640 --> 56:02.720
Here's the tools that we used.

56:02.800 --> 56:03.720
Here's the way we did it.

56:04.080 --> 56:06.500
You know, encourage people to go out there and make their own.

56:06.600 --> 56:10.800
We never really encouraged any kind of wars or animosity or anything like that.

56:10.940 --> 56:16.920
So, anybody who ever saw that or thought that, that was absolutely not the case at all.

56:17.740 --> 56:21.060
Yeah, I can't understand why anybody would think that you would get involved in that in

56:21.060 --> 56:21.580
the first place.

56:21.680 --> 56:24.400
Forget even getting involved, you know, us getting involved in it.

56:24.440 --> 56:26.000
Why would anybody start to do that?

56:26.180 --> 56:28.240
Listen, we don't care who did what first.

56:28.800 --> 56:29.820
Just do it.

56:30.000 --> 56:30.320
Right.

56:30.320 --> 56:31.500
We want to make stuff.

56:31.600 --> 56:32.340
We want to make stuff.

56:32.580 --> 56:33.280
Let's make stuff.

56:33.480 --> 56:33.740
Fine.

56:33.880 --> 56:34.160
Great.

56:34.540 --> 56:36.760
But there's no need to get in a pitching contest.

56:36.960 --> 56:38.980
Oh, I did this a week before you.

56:39.300 --> 56:39.900
Who cares?

56:40.060 --> 56:41.260
Just do it and shut up.

56:41.260 --> 56:49.760
Well, and you know, not only that, it's, that is true as, you know, the one thing, and this

56:49.760 --> 56:54.600
is going to come up, I think, later on, but I'll set the stage a little bit.

56:54.600 --> 56:56.960
The only thing that I've ever not liked, the only thing that I've ever not liked or that

56:56.960 --> 57:02.920
I've had a little bit of beef with that situation and some others is, you're right.

57:03.040 --> 57:03.760
I don't care.

57:04.020 --> 57:04.720
It doesn't matter.

57:05.180 --> 57:08.180
But give credit where credit is due.

57:08.360 --> 57:12.200
Don't try to claim credit or steal credit from someone else's work.

57:12.200 --> 57:16.320
And that's something that ended up coming out of this and one of the things I didn't like

57:16.320 --> 57:16.960
about it, so.

57:17.140 --> 57:17.460
Oh, yeah.

57:17.500 --> 57:17.880
Absolutely.

57:18.040 --> 57:22.120
I'm not saying you don't have to give people credit for what they do, but, you know, saying

57:22.120 --> 57:25.860
that I started doing a show before you did is, I mean, it's just silly.

57:25.920 --> 57:26.700
Who cares about that?

57:26.700 --> 57:30.960
But if you're, if you're taking somebody's work and, like, deriving from it and, you

57:30.960 --> 57:34.900
know, building on top of it, you should probably say, hey, I got the idea from this.

57:35.160 --> 57:35.520
Exactly.

57:35.880 --> 57:36.960
You know, if it's something important.

57:37.260 --> 57:37.620
Exactly.

57:37.820 --> 57:38.180
And, you know, that.

57:38.180 --> 57:43.140
Yeah, I know that a lot of that has not been, has not been reciprocated by, by different

57:43.140 --> 57:43.480
groups.

57:43.640 --> 57:43.960
Right.

57:44.080 --> 57:44.200
So.

57:44.320 --> 57:45.060
Not on the up and up.

57:45.100 --> 57:49.140
Hey, I gladly have said it already many times on this show, but, you know, we started this

57:49.140 --> 57:53.140
show because of RFA, you know, and RFA because of HackerMind.

57:53.140 --> 57:55.000
You know, HackerMind was before both of us.

57:55.000 --> 58:00.240
Um, a lot of people may not have heard of it or short-lived or whatever and, um, probably

58:00.240 --> 58:02.920
different content-wise and stuff like that, but you know what?

58:03.740 --> 58:05.260
They were there before we were.

58:05.480 --> 58:08.460
There's no debating it, no doubt about it, and you gotta give credit to that, you know?

58:10.860 --> 58:16.560
Oh, and speaking of back in those days, in episode 13, my good friend Bland Inquisitor

58:16.560 --> 58:17.680
finally appeared on the show.

58:17.760 --> 58:21.100
Took 13 episodes to get him over only because he was so busy.

58:21.100 --> 58:26.340
Uh, he and Duel were holding down Radio Freak America every week, so we know how long that

58:26.340 --> 58:26.600
takes.

58:26.660 --> 58:32.100
Well, we got Bland over on Binary Revolution Radio for this episode, so, um, that was cool.

58:32.740 --> 58:39.380
And, um, yeah, another, I don't know if this is a meme, but I guess I brought people into

58:39.380 --> 58:46.580
my world of being a sad, pathetic, lonely, delusional Cubs fan because, gave a little

58:46.580 --> 58:51.320
shouts at the end of that because my Cubs were trying to head to the playoffs for the

58:51.320 --> 58:54.520
first time, like, ever since 1944-45.

58:54.920 --> 58:59.680
I mean, it's been a long drought since the Cubs were in the series and since they've won

58:59.680 --> 59:00.540
it in 1908.

59:00.540 --> 59:06.100
It's been a long time and, boy, I had hopes, I had high hopes up then that they might do

59:06.100 --> 59:10.500
it and they didn't do it then and here we are four years later and, boy, wouldn't it

59:10.500 --> 59:11.000
be nice?

59:11.100 --> 59:13.880
Wouldn't it be a great ending to the Binary Revolution Radio?

59:14.520 --> 59:18.720
Maybe I have to keep the show going until the Cubs win the series, but we'd never, ever

59:18.720 --> 59:20.580
end the show if I had to wait for that.

59:20.580 --> 59:22.620
I was going to say, I don't know that you're going to live that long.

59:23.120 --> 59:23.480
Exactly.

59:24.000 --> 59:24.840
And make yourself do it.

59:24.920 --> 59:26.820
Oh, my goodness, definitely not.

59:26.820 --> 59:32.280
But, damn it, this year we made it to the playoffs again, this year we choked, we always

59:32.280 --> 59:35.620
choked, fucking Steve Bartman and that fucking goat.

59:36.060 --> 59:36.500
Ugh!

59:37.380 --> 59:37.900
Ugh!

59:38.700 --> 59:39.700
I might need to pause.

59:39.820 --> 59:42.880
I need to reduce my stress level just thinking about it.

59:43.420 --> 59:44.060
Oh, my God.

59:44.240 --> 59:47.060
How can you get so wrapped up in a game like that?

59:47.160 --> 59:48.200
I don't understand it.

59:48.380 --> 59:50.180
It's a beautiful game.

59:50.300 --> 59:52.580
It is just the greatest thing ever.

59:52.680 --> 59:55.860
I love baseball and I love the Cubs more than anything.

59:55.860 --> 59:57.840
I grew up watching them on WGN.

59:58.260 --> 59:59.400
Not even, that's the funny thing.

59:59.640 --> 01:00:01.480
First thing everybody asks me is, are you from Chicago?

01:00:02.060 --> 01:00:02.380
No.

01:00:03.940 --> 01:00:06.180
You know, I don't have to be from Chicago to be a Cubs fan.

01:00:06.220 --> 01:00:11.260
I grew up watching WGN on cable and watching the Cubs game every day after school.

01:00:11.360 --> 01:00:14.540
I come home from school, they only had day games at Wrigley Field.

01:00:14.620 --> 01:00:18.300
They didn't install the lights until 1989, which was when I was graduating from high school.

01:00:18.980 --> 01:00:20.320
So, there were always day games.

01:00:20.360 --> 01:00:22.680
So, I get to come home from school every day and watch the Cubs play.

01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:25.160
Boy, those, ugh, those were the days.

01:00:26.160 --> 01:00:27.900
Andre Dawson, Mark Grace.

01:00:28.040 --> 01:00:29.400
Anyway, I digress.

01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:31.140
Okay.

01:00:32.240 --> 01:00:33.880
Oh, episode 15.

01:00:34.420 --> 01:00:38.580
Boy, that was a memorable episode for two words.

01:00:39.780 --> 01:00:41.380
Deadly Halon.

01:00:42.560 --> 01:00:44.120
That might be the most memorable.

01:00:44.120 --> 01:00:44.820
We'll never die.

01:00:44.820 --> 01:00:47.740
That might be the most memorable episode.

01:00:49.160 --> 01:00:53.760
And really, there's nothing I can say about it if you've got to go back and listen to that episode.

01:00:54.860 --> 01:00:58.140
It was, I know because I was there firsthand.

01:00:58.380 --> 01:01:00.580
That was the funniest thing that's ever happened to me in my life.

01:01:00.580 --> 01:01:03.380
Absolutely scared me shitless.

01:01:03.500 --> 01:01:04.220
Almost literally.

01:01:04.420 --> 01:01:05.080
Not completely.

01:01:05.200 --> 01:01:07.080
I didn't shit myself, but I almost shit myself.

01:01:07.560 --> 01:01:10.340
That was the funniest thing that's ever happened to me in my life.

01:01:11.260 --> 01:01:11.500
Go back and listen to that.

01:01:11.500 --> 01:01:15.020
I've seen the people in the forums with Deadly Halon and their SIG.

01:01:15.020 --> 01:01:18.420
I don't know if it's you or somebody else, but I've seen it a couple, I'm sure.

01:01:18.560 --> 01:01:25.300
Yeah, and it's certainly referencing that story, which I retold again that we did Binary Revolution Radio

01:01:25.300 --> 01:01:30.200
in front of a live studio audience at Hope, five or six?

01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:31.360
Six?

01:01:32.160 --> 01:01:33.240
Yeah, it had to be six, right?

01:01:34.240 --> 01:01:35.000
Yeah, I think so.

01:01:35.220 --> 01:01:36.180
I don't remember.

01:01:36.340 --> 01:01:39.260
By the time we get to that part of the show, I'm sure we'll talk about it then.

01:01:39.260 --> 01:01:47.640
But I retold the story there, but this is when it was originally told, episode 15, four years ago, 2003.

01:01:50.220 --> 01:01:51.780
Let's see, what else?

01:01:52.700 --> 01:01:55.480
Episode 16 with some schmuck called Knot Theory?

01:01:56.780 --> 01:01:59.360
Yeah, I think he disappeared off the scene completely.

01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:05.100
I don't really want to get into the details live, but I think he's in some kind of trouble with the law.

01:02:05.100 --> 01:02:10.680
Well, I was working on my site, Bell's Mind, about that time.

01:02:12.580 --> 01:02:13.860
Wow, it's unbelievable.

01:02:14.240 --> 01:02:20.680
You know, I didn't get a chance to go all the way through the notes, but when did Bell's Mind start in relation to these shows?

01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:21.740
I don't know, actually.

01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:23.480
I do not remember.

01:02:23.600 --> 01:02:24.140
I don't remember.

01:02:24.240 --> 01:02:28.840
Of course, the joke I'm making there is that people thought Bell's Mind was my project for the longest time.

01:02:29.540 --> 01:02:32.760
Even though you came on the show and talked about it, we always credited you.

01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:35.780
And for some reason, people credited it to me for it.

01:02:35.780 --> 01:02:37.960
Like, I know what the hell I'd be running with that site.

01:02:39.660 --> 01:02:40.260
I don't know.

01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:44.140
I think that when I talk, people just don't hear anything.

01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:48.040
So people listening to this show, they probably hear you talking and then silence.

01:02:48.680 --> 01:02:52.000
And then you responding to something that they didn't hear and then silence.

01:02:52.300 --> 01:02:55.520
That's why they never get the point that it's not your site.

01:02:55.940 --> 01:02:56.420
I don't know.

01:02:56.720 --> 01:02:57.620
Yeah, it is my site.

01:02:57.900 --> 01:02:58.440
You're right.

01:02:58.480 --> 01:02:59.100
It is my site.

01:02:59.100 --> 01:03:04.640
But, yeah, that's what I do is I either – you never went back and listened to the shows after we recorded,

01:03:04.780 --> 01:03:08.200
but I edited out everything that you say so they don't hear it.

01:03:08.900 --> 01:03:14.200
And or I do the little Jedi Mind trick like I just did and just repeat it back what I wanted people to hear.

01:03:15.460 --> 01:03:17.140
And then they just all fall for it.

01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:17.680
Exactly.

01:03:18.180 --> 01:03:18.900
Actually, darn it.

01:03:18.940 --> 01:03:19.200
You know what?

01:03:19.220 --> 01:03:24.220
In retrospect, I wish we could have gone back and, like, inserted some Jedi Mind trick to see if anybody fell for it.

01:03:24.680 --> 01:03:25.060
Damn it.

01:03:25.080 --> 01:03:25.680
Too late now.

01:03:26.680 --> 01:03:27.160
Oh, well.

01:03:27.160 --> 01:03:27.600
Oh, well.

01:03:28.500 --> 01:03:31.340
And this was – let's see.

01:03:31.380 --> 01:03:39.960
This was the X-rated episode, which was, you know, we went into some detail talking about my language on the show.

01:03:40.220 --> 01:03:41.760
There's a big warning, like you said earlier.

01:03:42.060 --> 01:03:44.280
It's not a work-safe show.

01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:45.260
It's not safe for work.

01:03:47.500 --> 01:03:47.940
NSFW.

01:03:51.040 --> 01:03:52.860
I use naughty language.

01:03:53.600 --> 01:03:54.800
It's just the way it is.

01:03:54.800 --> 01:04:03.240
If I get mad, I get worked up, whatever the topic is, and I think I can get my point across better by using a few expletives, then, you know, the F-bombs fly.

01:04:03.300 --> 01:04:04.080
What can I tell you?

01:04:05.220 --> 01:04:08.740
Now, just looking back at the notes, is this the first show that I was ever on?

01:04:08.740 --> 01:04:10.460
I don't remember which one that was.

01:04:10.460 --> 01:04:18.180
I think – I think that was – let's see, 14, single sign-on, episode 14.

01:04:18.180 --> 01:04:20.120
That looks like it might have been the first one.

01:04:20.120 --> 01:04:23.540
Actually, let's see.

01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:29.940
If it's any consolation, though, you were on a couple episodes before Decoder, episode 18.

01:04:31.380 --> 01:04:31.980
Oh, yeah.

01:04:32.040 --> 01:04:37.020
I'm looking back at the – episode 8, I guess, was the first one that I was on.

01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:41.020
That was when we were talking about free toys.

01:04:41.860 --> 01:04:42.720
Oh, yeah.

01:04:42.720 --> 01:04:43.020
Free tools.

01:04:43.220 --> 01:04:44.280
Forgot all about that.

01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:47.060
Yeah, back in the day.

01:04:47.700 --> 01:04:54.140
Back in the day when I was young, I'm not a kid anymore, but some days I said and wish I was a kid again.

01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:56.800
See, that's another meme.

01:04:56.860 --> 01:04:57.800
I sing on the shows.

01:04:57.880 --> 01:04:59.000
I don't give a fuck.

01:04:59.560 --> 01:05:01.780
I sang Janet Jackson on the show.

01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:05.820
I sang – I think I sang Spice Girls, or was that – that was on an outtake, I think.

01:05:06.860 --> 01:05:08.380
What else have I sang on the show?

01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:11.000
Huh.

01:05:11.140 --> 01:05:11.600
I don't know.

01:05:11.860 --> 01:05:14.000
Whatever it is, you don't need to do it anymore.

01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:14.940
There's always ways you can sing.

01:05:15.080 --> 01:05:17.000
It's always bad.

01:05:17.060 --> 01:05:20.680
I always joked about how I was going to go on American Idol and be one of the funny people

01:05:20.680 --> 01:05:25.460
that they make – you know, that Simon makes fun of, but Decoder and I actually – for

01:05:25.460 --> 01:05:28.780
four years, Decoder and I have been saying we're going to go on there and tell them we're

01:05:28.780 --> 01:05:32.180
twins and sing some horrible honeycomb song.

01:05:34.080 --> 01:05:34.700
Oh, that would be so hard.

01:05:34.700 --> 01:05:35.320
Now, wait a second.

01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:38.680
Are you guys going to do the honeycomb song, or are you going to do the jug band?

01:05:38.740 --> 01:05:39.400
The jug band?

01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:39.920
I don't know.

01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:40.820
Old Stank Jenkins.

01:05:40.820 --> 01:05:43.700
Oh, man.

01:05:43.780 --> 01:05:44.200
I don't know.

01:05:45.100 --> 01:05:46.320
We never did work that out.

01:05:46.640 --> 01:05:48.640
It's never going to happen, so it doesn't matter.

01:05:49.560 --> 01:05:56.400
However, irrelevant of American Idol, we are going to start the – what was it?

01:05:56.420 --> 01:05:59.360
The down-home good times jug band or something like that.

01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:02.380
Oh, man.

01:06:03.380 --> 01:06:04.800
Hey, you guys need to go on a world tour.

01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:05.660
Bring your jugs.

01:06:05.660 --> 01:06:09.220
Bring – dude, can you imagine the T-shirts and the logos?

01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:09.940
It would be like hooters.

01:06:11.080 --> 01:06:12.500
Oh, that would be great, yeah.

01:06:12.700 --> 01:06:13.320
That would be pretty good.

01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:14.000
Bring your jugs.

01:06:14.200 --> 01:06:15.200
Bring your jugs.

01:06:15.200 --> 01:06:15.420
Yeah, down.

01:06:18.340 --> 01:06:18.940
Let's see.

01:06:19.100 --> 01:06:22.540
So, yeah, the X-rated episode and Decoder in episode 18.

01:06:23.620 --> 01:06:27.260
And actually, you and I, we're going to have to – I'm going to have you back on again

01:06:27.260 --> 01:06:28.160
at the end of the show.

01:06:28.160 --> 01:06:33.380
So, after we do this, we're going to have to wrap up and talk about Decoder a little

01:06:33.380 --> 01:06:37.740
bit because there's some story there that we've kept hush-hush and quiet for a long

01:06:37.740 --> 01:06:41.060
time, and a lot of it still is going to remain that way.

01:06:41.160 --> 01:06:46.060
But at least let people know that Decoder, where he's at and that he's all right and all

01:06:46.060 --> 01:06:46.860
that kind of good stuff.

01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:48.760
So, we'll come back to that topic.

01:06:50.300 --> 01:06:51.600
But for now, let's see.

01:06:51.640 --> 01:06:54.720
We're talking about the – oh, yeah, the whole X-rated nature and my language and stuff

01:06:54.720 --> 01:06:55.140
like that.

01:06:55.140 --> 01:07:03.060
I went through a phase there for a while where I did try to clean up the show, where

01:07:03.060 --> 01:07:06.860
I did try to make it – because, you know, I got that little vibe where it's like there

01:07:06.860 --> 01:07:10.900
are some people that are listening to the show that are younger, and I didn't want to give

01:07:10.900 --> 01:07:16.840
off the image or the – you know, make it sound like to be cool you have to say bad words

01:07:16.840 --> 01:07:17.760
and stuff like that.

01:07:18.500 --> 01:07:22.040
So, I thought I'd clean up my act and make it so that people could listen to the show

01:07:22.040 --> 01:07:24.420
at work, that sort of thing.

01:07:24.420 --> 01:07:29.720
And, I don't know, when I started the show in the very beginning, I always knew and

01:07:29.720 --> 01:07:34.400
always loved internet radio because of the fact that – and I'm hearing some echoing

01:07:34.400 --> 01:07:34.840
in the background.

01:07:34.920 --> 01:07:38.440
I don't know if you can hear it at all, but I always liked the fact –

01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:39.500
I can't hear it, but I can fix it.

01:07:39.580 --> 01:07:39.820
Okay.

01:07:39.880 --> 01:07:44.860
I always liked the fact that being on the internet, I didn't have to deal with the

01:07:44.860 --> 01:07:45.180
FCC.

01:07:45.680 --> 01:07:48.740
I didn't have to worry about that, not only the language, but the content.

01:07:48.740 --> 01:07:53.360
You know, computer hackers, especially four years ago and even still now to an extent,

01:07:53.620 --> 01:07:54.660
is a scary word.

01:07:54.820 --> 01:07:59.180
You know, they get lumped with terrorists and all these other things.

01:07:59.180 --> 01:08:03.700
And so, content or language, there's no way we could ever get a show like this on the

01:08:03.700 --> 01:08:05.160
real airwaves.

01:08:05.980 --> 01:08:06.380
Airwaves.

01:08:06.460 --> 01:08:12.560
Now, we did – some other people did actually stream this over the airwaves in different

01:08:12.560 --> 01:08:14.380
college radio stations from small towns.

01:08:14.380 --> 01:08:22.760
They would either stream it in such a – I don't – actually – somebody did it with

01:08:22.760 --> 01:08:25.920
a delay, I think, and edited out any of the bad stuff.

01:08:26.060 --> 01:08:31.200
And then someone else actually went in and edited the MP3 files and put bleeps over the

01:08:31.200 --> 01:08:32.220
bad words and stuff.

01:08:33.500 --> 01:08:37.000
And I know there was a few episodes where it just must have been one long beep.

01:08:38.260 --> 01:08:42.100
Yeah, that's serious dedication to go through like a two-hour show and edit out all that

01:08:42.100 --> 01:08:43.000
kind of stuff beforehand.

01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:48.580
I mean, it's easy to do on the fly with delay, but not to sit there and edit it and save

01:08:48.580 --> 01:08:50.060
it and then rebroadcast it.

01:08:50.080 --> 01:08:50.700
That's a lot of work.

01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:54.920
Yeah, and that was always really a weird feeling because we were the anti-FCC show.

01:08:55.040 --> 01:08:59.260
You know, we were always about doing this on the interweb because we didn't have boundaries.

01:08:59.400 --> 01:09:00.300
We didn't have limits.

01:09:01.120 --> 01:09:06.440
I guess there's always some sort of limit, but definitely not the same.

01:09:06.440 --> 01:09:08.820
So, that was always interesting.

01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:12.660
And it's one of the things I liked about doing this show is I didn't have that artificial

01:09:12.660 --> 01:09:14.240
boundary of FCC limits.

01:09:14.380 --> 01:09:22.220
The only limits I had was limits of my bad taste, which are pretty limitless, and the

01:09:22.220 --> 01:09:23.680
boundaries of the interweb itself.

01:09:24.260 --> 01:09:27.080
You know, as long as there's room in the tubes, we're out there surfing.

01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:29.700
Out there swimming in the tubes, baby.

01:09:29.700 --> 01:09:34.520
Like a waterbed filled with butter and feces and...

01:09:34.520 --> 01:09:35.120
Eh, never mind.

01:09:35.200 --> 01:09:35.620
Forget it.

01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:37.920
Jesus.

01:09:38.260 --> 01:09:39.560
You didn't think I'd go there, did you?

01:09:40.440 --> 01:09:42.280
No, I was totally unprepared for that.

01:09:43.660 --> 01:09:44.540
Oh, man.

01:09:44.740 --> 01:09:46.500
That's an inside joke that no one's ever going to get.

01:09:46.540 --> 01:09:47.240
Episode 200.

01:09:47.420 --> 01:09:49.680
We're going to leave you with a joke that we're never going to explain.

01:09:51.140 --> 01:09:51.500
18.

01:09:51.660 --> 01:09:54.400
Yes, Decoder and I, you know, have been friends for a while.

01:09:54.400 --> 01:10:01.560
I got him on the episode finally, and this episode of Binary Revolution Radio was on November

01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:02.800
4th, 2003.

01:10:03.860 --> 01:10:07.400
Default Radio debuted about a week or two later.

01:10:07.480 --> 01:10:12.240
The first episode of Default Radio was on November 21st, 2003.

01:10:12.240 --> 01:10:13.880
So, what is that, three weeks later?

01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:15.840
Two weeks later.

01:10:16.200 --> 01:10:17.580
No, three weeks later, something like that.

01:10:18.380 --> 01:10:19.360
So, yeah.

01:10:19.480 --> 01:10:24.060
Again, continuing with the whole tradition of all of us being friends and community shows

01:10:24.060 --> 01:10:28.000
and supporting each other, I was on several episodes of Default Radio with the gang over

01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:28.360
there.

01:10:28.900 --> 01:10:30.300
They did such a fun show.

01:10:31.440 --> 01:10:35.460
You know, and Default Radio was great, and you were a regular on Default Radio.

01:10:36.760 --> 01:10:40.640
Default Radio was great to me as a listener because, A, Decoder's funny as hell.

01:10:40.640 --> 01:10:47.320
You know, Decoder and I have always been good friends, and their show form, you know, we

01:10:47.320 --> 01:10:50.160
have a rigid format on Binary Revolution Radio for the most part.

01:10:50.220 --> 01:10:51.180
We always did the same thing.

01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:57.200
Their format was that there was no format, and that's what made the show great.

01:10:57.360 --> 01:10:59.980
Decoder couldn't, I can just talk.

01:11:00.060 --> 01:11:04.060
I'm pretty good at just talking and talking and talking, but Decoder's really good at that

01:11:04.060 --> 01:11:07.120
as well, and Decoder could just make a show funny.

01:11:07.540 --> 01:11:09.240
Decoder was just fun to listen to.

01:11:10.640 --> 01:11:12.340
Yeah, it's a shame to see it go.

01:11:13.220 --> 01:11:15.580
Yeah, well, I don't know.

01:11:15.860 --> 01:11:19.300
We got 11-11 coming up here in a few more weeks, don't we?

01:11:20.500 --> 01:11:21.460
Yeah, we sure do.

01:11:21.540 --> 01:11:22.640
We'll see about that.

01:11:22.740 --> 01:11:23.000
Yeah.

01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:23.560
I have my doubts.

01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:24.600
I do, too.

01:11:26.200 --> 01:11:28.840
Anyway, so let's see.

01:11:28.900 --> 01:11:29.240
What else?

01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:33.680
19, episode 19, another tradition debut on this episode.

01:11:33.800 --> 01:11:35.440
I gave shout-outs for Veterans Day.

01:11:35.440 --> 01:11:37.860
You know, that's something I've always done, too.

01:11:37.940 --> 01:11:41.440
This is probably totally not hacking-related, but, you know, sometimes I have these corny

01:11:41.440 --> 01:11:46.420
things that I do because I believe in them, and, you know, the war going on four years

01:11:46.420 --> 01:11:46.880
ago now.

01:11:46.980 --> 01:11:52.340
Keep in mind the time frame and what was going on, and despite what people may think about

01:11:52.340 --> 01:11:58.600
the war that's going on then, now, or any war for that matter, you know, I really think

01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:04.380
very highly of those people that go out there and risk their lives every day because the

01:12:04.380 --> 01:12:08.820
fact that they do what they do allows me to do what I do.

01:12:08.820 --> 01:12:13.500
You know, I couldn't do something like this if we didn't live in a pre-society, you know,

01:12:13.620 --> 01:12:19.560
getting less and less so as the day goes on, but I'm not going into politics, and I've

01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:24.920
always appreciated that, so every year I would always make sure to say that on the air.

01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:29.020
I thought that's the least that I could do, so every year, four years, I've always tried

01:12:29.020 --> 01:12:29.500
to do that.

01:12:31.120 --> 01:12:33.980
Episode number 20, MC Front A Lot.

01:12:33.980 --> 01:12:42.020
But, Bland Inquisitor actually told me about this guy, Mr. Front A Lot, or Mr. A Lot, I

01:12:42.020 --> 01:12:50.800
don't know how to address him specifically, but Bland actually followed a site called Song

01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:57.760
Fight, songfight.org, which is where anybody could go in and make music, make a song based

01:12:57.760 --> 01:13:01.000
on whatever random topics they would pick, and then people would vote on which ones they

01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:01.560
liked best.

01:13:01.560 --> 01:13:08.640
And this gentleman came along by the name of MC Front A Lot and made something called

01:13:08.640 --> 01:13:12.560
Nerdcore Hip Hop, a track that was just phenomenal.

01:13:13.220 --> 01:13:16.720
It was just such a cool thing, something that was new and different and never been heard

01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:20.020
before, coined the phrase Nerdcore, you know.

01:13:20.220 --> 01:13:26.540
He is the grandfather, the godfather of Nerdcore Hip Hop, and we closed out the show with one

01:13:26.540 --> 01:13:33.620
of his songs, and later on, he actually performed live at Hope No. 5 when we did Binary Revolution

01:13:33.620 --> 01:13:34.620
Radio Live.

01:13:34.620 --> 01:13:40.700
He actually performed at that event, and I'm still good friends with him to this day.

01:13:40.700 --> 01:13:46.180
I mean, four years ago, when he was on the show, we played the song for the first time

01:13:46.180 --> 01:13:50.160
on the show, we played several since then, and had him on the show since then, but he's

01:13:50.160 --> 01:13:55.940
released two albums, has got so much press coverage, and has just, I mean, look where

01:13:55.940 --> 01:13:59.100
he was four years ago compared to where he is now and still climbing.

01:13:59.100 --> 01:14:00.840
So, that's something very cool.

01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:03.420
So, big props to the front.

01:14:04.380 --> 01:14:08.920
He's come a long way, and hopefully so have we, and still hosting his website to this day.

01:14:09.500 --> 01:14:13.320
I contacted him and made the offer, so we've been hosting his website for quite a while.

01:14:15.380 --> 01:14:18.100
22 and 23, jump up a couple episodes.

01:14:18.260 --> 01:14:19.220
Do you remember the big hack?

01:14:19.300 --> 01:14:20.520
Do you remember these episodes at all?

01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:25.240
Yeah, you know, I was looking through the notes, and I decided to go to their website.

01:14:25.240 --> 01:14:32.700
Their website is still up, but I'm still kind of really confused about what this thing was

01:14:32.700 --> 01:14:33.140
all about.

01:14:33.280 --> 01:14:34.460
It seemed like a bunch of nonsense.

01:14:34.680 --> 01:14:38.960
I mean, it is a bunch of nonsense, but I don't understand whatever happened with it.

01:14:39.220 --> 01:14:39.460
Right.

01:14:39.600 --> 01:14:45.360
Well, this was, all right, so here's the interesting thing, and it goes back to our friend we mentioned

01:14:45.360 --> 01:14:47.600
earlier, Mr. White Belgaraven.

01:14:50.160 --> 01:14:52.380
We had someone in our forum.

01:14:52.440 --> 01:14:53.380
Okay, well, let me back up.

01:14:53.380 --> 01:14:59.880
The episode was about the big hack, and what the big hack was, was a website called, is

01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:01.540
it thebighack.org or .com?

01:15:02.940 --> 01:15:04.180
I think it was .org, I'm not sure.

01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:05.660
They have both.

01:15:05.920 --> 01:15:11.160
Okay, so it was a project or a site called the big hack, which, ooh, the big hack, what

01:15:11.160 --> 01:15:11.640
does that mean?

01:15:12.120 --> 01:15:19.260
Well, the big hack was a project to basically encode and decode music on the fly, and this

01:15:19.260 --> 01:15:24.100
was four years ago, and it was right in the heart of the whole RIAA, cracking down on piracy,

01:15:24.260 --> 01:15:25.500
copyright, stuff like that.

01:15:25.500 --> 01:15:37.200
Okay, the overly simplified thing was their interpretation of the law was it's only illegal if you're

01:15:37.200 --> 01:15:48.100
owning a file that has that content on it in a listenable format, or it is an actual copy

01:15:48.100 --> 01:15:52.020
bit-by-bit, whatever, you know, it's an exact pirated duplicate copy.

01:15:52.360 --> 01:15:54.220
I'm not sure how to exactly put that into words.

01:15:54.220 --> 01:15:59.900
And their idea to bypass that, or that was a loophole to that, was that instead of storing

01:15:59.900 --> 01:16:07.380
that file on your computer and therefore having a piece of illegal copywritten material, that

01:16:07.380 --> 01:16:09.980
what you would do was store two files.

01:16:10.680 --> 01:16:16.920
Now, I don't know the technical details of whether it was a checksum plus a file or probably

01:16:16.920 --> 01:16:21.460
a half and half, maybe split the file in the middle, so that if you listen to either one

01:16:21.460 --> 01:16:25.700
of them individually, there's nothing there, they're completely irrelevant, it's random

01:16:25.700 --> 01:16:33.720
bits of data, but they were trying to put together an application that would, on the fly, have

01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:41.720
a database that says, okay, well, I don't know, Britney Spears, what was her big hit, hit me

01:16:41.720 --> 01:16:48.360
one more time or something, but having a database to know to join file A to file B on the fly and

01:16:48.360 --> 01:16:55.220
play it. So it's actually only joining it for a split second to play it in memory. It

01:16:55.220 --> 01:16:59.600
never actually gets written anywhere, it's all done in memory, and you never have an actual

01:16:59.600 --> 01:17:03.520
Britney Spears copywritten or whatever the case may be, copywritten file on your hard

01:17:03.520 --> 01:17:08.520
drive. That was what the idea and the concept of the big hack was.

01:17:08.520 --> 01:17:12.800
Right. And the people that I had talked to who were into it, they were like, well, you

01:17:12.800 --> 01:17:17.520
can't really copyright a number or something, you know, so there's like two big numbers that

01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:19.280
make up this song and you combine them.

01:17:19.440 --> 01:17:19.740
Right.

01:17:19.880 --> 01:17:24.080
But I think the premise is just ridiculous, you know, but the law isn't really as black

01:17:24.080 --> 01:17:28.120
and white as people think it is. There's, you know, lawyers and judges, they interpret

01:17:28.120 --> 01:17:34.700
the law and there's wiggle room in there and to bring this case to some judge, you're just

01:17:34.700 --> 01:17:36.680
going to get left out of course, I have to imagine.

01:17:37.040 --> 01:17:43.060
Right. Well, and you know what, this is why, you know, when I heard this, I kind of thought,

01:17:43.160 --> 01:17:48.180
wait a minute, this is, I mean, it's an interesting story, you know, if this was a piece of fiction

01:17:48.180 --> 01:17:52.600
or something, if this was a book or a short story or something, it would be interesting.

01:17:53.340 --> 01:17:59.200
But realistically speaking, yeah, it didn't seem like it was right. And one of our forum

01:17:59.200 --> 01:18:05.820
members at the time was heavily into this. He would always come over and promote it in

01:18:05.820 --> 01:18:09.840
our forums and talk about it all the time, ad nauseum to the point where we were just

01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:15.180
like, dude, we get it. Stop posting the link. Stop talking about it. It's not going to work.

01:18:15.380 --> 01:18:22.380
That's what you think is, that somehow makes it legal. It's probably not. The debate and

01:18:22.380 --> 01:18:28.240
arguments about it aside, he never would listen. But anyway, he went over there and he was so

01:18:28.240 --> 01:18:31.980
into it that I actually was kind of concerned. And I started doing the research on it because

01:18:31.980 --> 01:18:37.620
I thought it was completely bogus. Did some digging, did some dock dropping, started digging

01:18:37.620 --> 01:18:42.400
stuff up. And long story short, and you can go back and listen to these episodes and I

01:18:42.400 --> 01:18:48.560
think it's more detailed there. But long story short, found out that this was totally fake.

01:18:49.280 --> 01:18:55.080
I actually did some digging and found a relationship between this site and another site called Hackback.

01:18:55.080 --> 01:19:01.100
I think that was Hackback.org. And found out that this was not actually a real project. This was

01:19:01.100 --> 01:19:08.000
something called, quote unquote, interactive fiction. So like I said earlier, if this was a story, it

01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:13.040
might be interesting. Well, it turns out that's what it was. The person who created the big hack

01:19:13.040 --> 01:19:22.060
was really more of a hacker slash writer. And I guess calling it interactive fiction, I guess

01:19:22.060 --> 01:19:27.820
maybe a better phrase or something that might be more appropriate is role-playing. He was putting

01:19:27.820 --> 01:19:32.980
all this stuff together as a role-playing exercise and actually go through it. They were writing

01:19:32.980 --> 01:19:39.140
the code to do this. So I guess as far as a fun project to work on is a piece of interactive

01:19:39.140 --> 01:19:44.580
fiction or whatnot. And he wanted to see, and I actually contacted the gentleman behind this

01:19:44.580 --> 01:19:49.060
and I actually met him in real life. He's actually down in Houston. And I have met him in real

01:19:49.060 --> 01:19:53.660
life and discussed this and discussed it with him through email and I believe on the phone

01:19:53.660 --> 01:19:59.240
when we did, before we did this episode. And, you know, he didn't deny it. He admitted to

01:19:59.240 --> 01:20:03.700
it and everything. He also admitted that this particular person was a problem child on his

01:20:03.700 --> 01:20:09.520
forms too. But I guess that's irrelevant to the story. But I explained to him that I was

01:20:09.520 --> 01:20:16.140
kind of concerned because this member in question was very much into the project. And my concern

01:20:16.140 --> 01:20:22.140
was that, yes, it's fake. And yes, you're not denying it. You're admitting that it's fake

01:20:22.140 --> 01:20:30.340
and all that. But this member wasn't getting it. And he was going out and building up publicity

01:20:30.340 --> 01:20:37.160
and bragging to people and, you know, getting into problems on other third and fourth party

01:20:37.160 --> 01:20:41.800
forums and stuff like that, talking about it and getting a lot of hatred and flames and stuff

01:20:41.800 --> 01:20:48.280
like that. And I was concerned that, you know, it might become a problem for him and

01:20:48.280 --> 01:20:54.060
it might bring harm to him and reputation and stuff like that. But so what we did, what

01:20:54.060 --> 01:20:59.240
we decided to do is after I contacted him, he admitted it was a fake and all that. We did

01:20:59.240 --> 01:21:04.120
an episode kind of calling them out and letting everybody know that it was a fake. Now, this

01:21:04.120 --> 01:21:08.000
is where this, it's kind of funny in the same way that Freak Factor is. And we'll come back

01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:12.700
to Freak Factor later on as well. But it's kind of funny that we went on and we did this

01:21:12.700 --> 01:21:17.500
episode of the show explaining that it was fake and explaining the whole interactive fiction

01:21:17.500 --> 01:21:24.580
and all that kind of stuff. Gave the reasons and the details for it and everything. And even

01:21:24.580 --> 01:21:30.260
with all that evidence, faced with all that evidence, the person still didn't believe that

01:21:30.260 --> 01:21:39.960
it was fake. It was really bizarre. And I contacted the guy and he was actually, this

01:21:39.960 --> 01:21:44.100
is the cool thing about interactive fiction or role playing or whatever is, to the guy

01:21:44.100 --> 01:21:51.780
running it, being on a hacking radio show was great because it added to the reality of the

01:21:51.780 --> 01:21:56.840
interactive fiction, it added to the story. So one of the things that we did, and I don't

01:21:56.840 --> 01:22:01.460
think we've ever admitted this on the air before, so this is a nice little back story.

01:22:02.320 --> 01:22:06.820
I actually spoke to the guy and I did think it was kind of a cool project, so I agreed

01:22:06.820 --> 01:22:12.460
to play along with it. So on the next episode, we actually played along, talked about a little

01:22:12.460 --> 01:22:17.720
bit more detail and kind of left the mystery out there. Is it real? Is it not real? Is it

01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:22.120
fake? Is this really legitimate? Is it going to work? So we kind of joined in and played

01:22:22.120 --> 01:22:27.140
along and actually became part of the story to a certain extent. And I did it all with

01:22:27.140 --> 01:22:32.200
his knowledge and his permission and everything, so it was kind of cool that we were part of

01:22:32.200 --> 01:22:36.060
the story. We first tried to call it out and failed apparently because no one believed

01:22:36.060 --> 01:22:41.540
it. So then we figured, okay, fine, fuck it, we'll play along then. So that's why it was

01:22:41.540 --> 01:22:47.260
all confusing because, you know what, nobody seemed to be able to distinguish real from

01:22:47.260 --> 01:22:53.180
truth from fiction. Is that a something, is that a problem that hackers have?

01:22:55.960 --> 01:22:57.780
Sorry, I think I lost you there for a second.

01:22:58.680 --> 01:23:02.300
Actually, you know who I have trying to call me right now, speak of the devil? Decoder

01:23:02.300 --> 01:23:07.040
is calling in. So my listeners on the microphone are hearing a beeping noise. That's Decoder and

01:23:07.040 --> 01:23:08.040
I'm not going to go answer it.

01:23:08.040 --> 01:23:18.460
Yeah, just as a quick follow-up to all that, if you Google the big hack, this is a really,

01:23:18.460 --> 01:23:25.100
really old project and it looks like it's completely dead now. But on Hackback Media, you'll find

01:23:25.100 --> 01:23:31.740
a link right off of Google that calls it collaborative fiction and talks about how you can participate

01:23:31.740 --> 01:23:35.680
and stuff like that. So I don't know if this was, if this information was out there when

01:23:35.680 --> 01:23:40.940
it started, but I kind of feel like it wasn't. You know, I had to lead everybody out and make

01:23:40.940 --> 01:23:42.980
them think it was real like you were talking about.

01:23:42.980 --> 01:23:47.060
Right, it was, it was called interactive, it was called interactive fiction is the way

01:23:47.060 --> 01:23:50.980
they referred to it, a hackback.org I think it was called. And they actually had like a

01:23:50.980 --> 01:23:56.080
couple other projects as well. And here we are, you know, this is, we're talking four

01:23:56.080 --> 01:24:00.000
years ago. This is episode 200 we're recording now. We're talking four years ago. So who knows

01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:04.940
if the site has changed that much all that time. Maybe Decoder might know something like

01:24:04.940 --> 01:24:12.200
that, but yeah, I guess we don't have him here to ask. So, nah, Decoder wouldn't have

01:24:12.200 --> 01:24:19.060
remembered either. He's kind of slow. Yeah, it never really took off. So, I mean, nobody

01:24:19.060 --> 01:24:26.240
really, it was a very small, short-lived thing. It didn't take off very much. Do you see any

01:24:26.240 --> 01:24:30.780
links there to this today that, to the other projects, the other interactive fiction topics

01:24:30.780 --> 01:24:36.540
that they had? Well, it looks like the site is pretty much abandoned. But they do have,

01:24:36.540 --> 01:24:40.960
when you, when you go to their website, Hackback Media, it says, they call themselves Fiction

01:24:40.960 --> 01:24:47.640
Taken Seriously. And the big, the big hack link has an hour fiction link on the left hand

01:24:47.640 --> 01:24:52.240
side. And when you go to that, there's three projects that they list. The big hack is beginning

01:24:52.240 --> 01:24:57.780
mid-July, and this is July 2003. Then they have Deity 3. Yep, that was one of them.

01:24:57.780 --> 01:25:02.540
Which is beginning December, which I guess is December 2003. And then it says, Root of

01:25:02.540 --> 01:25:07.280
All Evil, beginning April, which I guess is April 2004. Right. And the Root of All Evil

01:25:07.280 --> 01:25:12.640
was another hacking-themed story as well. Right. But there's no links to any of these other

01:25:12.640 --> 01:25:17.240
than the big hack. So I don't know if they even got started back then. Right. Yeah, and they

01:25:17.240 --> 01:25:21.900
may not have. I'm pretty sure I saw at least a website developed for it, whether it actually

01:25:21.900 --> 01:25:26.620
was announced or started. I don't know. But, but yeah, I do think it was kind of a cool

01:25:26.620 --> 01:25:32.040
idea. I don't know. As long, the only thing was I, the only problem I ever had was label

01:25:32.040 --> 01:25:39.440
it as fiction because it was pulling people in. And then Raven was out recruiting other

01:25:39.440 --> 01:25:44.860
people into this project. And they thought it was real. And it wasn't. And he didn't know

01:25:44.860 --> 01:25:48.120
to tell them because he thought it was real as well. And it just kind of snowballed.

01:25:48.120 --> 01:25:52.740
And a lot of people were spending time working on this project, thinking it was legitimate,

01:25:52.740 --> 01:25:57.580
worthwhile, and believing that it was an actual loophole that was legitimate. And I don't

01:25:57.580 --> 01:26:01.580
want to see people spend a lot of time, waste time on a project that's completely false.

01:26:02.180 --> 01:26:05.820
I mean, we have an up top problem trying to get people involved in projects that we work

01:26:05.820 --> 01:26:11.480
on. We don't want them to work on something that's completely fake and false and then get mad

01:26:11.480 --> 01:26:14.880
and indignant and never work on another project again because of it. That's counterproductive.

01:26:16.280 --> 01:26:18.160
So that was my whole issue.

01:26:20.080 --> 01:26:25.260
Well, let's see. Let's get back on the list here. Episode 24, speaking of show novels,

01:26:25.320 --> 01:26:28.960
you were making fun of me at the beginning. This episode 24 is where Jewel actually coined

01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:36.720
that term. Another meme, show novels because my ridiculously long show notes. Because I really

01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:41.620
do my research and try to put a bunch of things in there, points I want to talk about, some

01:26:41.620 --> 01:26:47.180
more detailed than others. There were some times I would script out very detailed sentences

01:26:47.180 --> 01:26:51.460
I wanted to cover. Sometimes, most of the time, I would just do outlines of bullet points

01:26:51.460 --> 01:26:56.580
and stuff that I wanted to talk about. Just notepad. I mean, Not Theory has seen several

01:26:56.580 --> 01:26:59.380
of them over the years. There's nothing but a little text file that I write in notepad.

01:26:59.380 --> 01:27:01.660
Nothing super, super detailed.

01:27:02.200 --> 01:27:05.540
No, it's kind of nice though because it's got that old school feel like your headings

01:27:05.540 --> 01:27:09.160
all have like, you know, stars around them and they're an old cast.

01:27:09.320 --> 01:27:14.540
I'm leet like that. I'm leet like that. I'll put it, you know what, should I put the ones

01:27:14.540 --> 01:27:20.240
up for this show? I don't know. Maybe for 200. I always did want to go back and put up my

01:27:20.240 --> 01:27:26.360
show novels compared to the show, we call show notes what the little summary that we put

01:27:26.360 --> 01:27:30.980
on the web page, but those are, yeah, that's like a show summary. I wanted to go back and

01:27:30.980 --> 01:27:34.480
put show notes up for every episode. At least I have them for all the ones I did again.

01:27:35.440 --> 01:27:38.900
So, I don't know, maybe I'll put up a few of them just so people get an idea of what

01:27:38.900 --> 01:27:45.580
they were like. Then again, maybe they don't want to see these. It may ruin the illusion.

01:27:47.240 --> 01:27:49.980
Of course, they may see the man behind the curtain.

01:27:49.980 --> 01:27:56.800
Exactly. But then again, if you watch and read the, have the notes up while you're listening,

01:27:56.920 --> 01:28:01.460
you might see how much is prepared and planned out and how much I literally read off the paper

01:28:01.460 --> 01:28:07.620
sometimes versus how much we totally freestyle out of the blue. I don't know. It might be

01:28:07.620 --> 01:28:11.900
interesting. It might ruin the illusion. All I know is that when I write show notes, I

01:28:11.900 --> 01:28:16.660
use it with the minus V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V. How many Vs do I put in there?

01:28:17.860 --> 01:28:21.680
I don't know. As many as you want. Some applications will take an infinite number, I guess,

01:28:22.360 --> 01:28:23.060
five, four billion.

01:28:23.380 --> 01:28:30.200
Yeah. So, I've got about four billion and one Vs. I have super excelled verbose mode turned

01:28:30.200 --> 01:28:37.840
on every time I do show notes. Let's see, 25. Now, that was the telephonic craptacular.

01:28:37.840 --> 01:28:43.620
Not spectacular, the craptacular. Another word I coined because it was craptastic. It

01:28:43.620 --> 01:28:49.500
was pretty, I thought that was awful. It was just, I didn't plan on doing it. It was 25.

01:28:49.780 --> 01:28:54.920
I'm like, should I do something special for 25? Is that a weird number to reach 25? I

01:28:54.920 --> 01:28:59.660
thought, you know, I have a bunch of recordings from just making fun phone calls here and there,

01:28:59.760 --> 01:29:06.560
some stuff that we'd done as jokes, as some phone hacking stuff that I recorded, etc., etc.,

01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:11.020
that were just laying around. And I thought, you know what? Wouldn't it be cool if I were

01:29:11.020 --> 01:29:17.100
to put all these onto a show and that was it? Just, this would be the show. All these

01:29:17.100 --> 01:29:22.260
different phone calls together. I'd put some sort of a separator in between them. But just

01:29:22.260 --> 01:29:27.260
play phone calls, pranks, jokes, phone freaking, whatever I had laying around. So, I did that,

01:29:27.340 --> 01:29:32.320
edited it all together. And a lot of people might not realize that this is harder to do.

01:29:32.320 --> 01:29:38.220
You know, these other shows that are topical, that have a real topic to them, they're hard

01:29:38.220 --> 01:29:43.100
to prepare for. But to actually record, usually we've done so much preparation, we're ready

01:29:43.100 --> 01:29:47.240
to go, we just start recording, sound check, start recording, and we do it in an hour and

01:29:47.240 --> 01:29:51.920
a half, non-stop. We just go start to finish, we end recording, I do a little bit of editing

01:29:51.920 --> 01:29:58.780
and mixing, but that's it. Pretty easy to do as far as technically, as long as you've done

01:29:58.780 --> 01:30:03.820
the proper preparation and research. Well, these telephonic craptaculars were just so

01:30:03.820 --> 01:30:09.120
insanely time consuming because I have to edit in all of these different files, you know,

01:30:09.160 --> 01:30:15.440
I've got 10, 20, 30, 40 files that I've saved from conferences and whatever the case may

01:30:15.440 --> 01:30:20.440
be, and mix them together back to back. And you have to separate them some way, otherwise

01:30:20.440 --> 01:30:28.000
you can't tell which ones, you can't tell where one ends and the other one begins, etc., etc.

01:30:30.060 --> 01:30:33.980
So those were actually really hard to put those together. But the first one I thought was fun

01:30:33.980 --> 01:30:39.960
and funny, and I think a few other people did too. And we decided to make that kind of a

01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:48.400
tradition. We did it every 25 episodes for the first couple seasons. Oh, let's see. After

01:30:48.400 --> 01:30:53.140
25, gosh, we're not even halfway through season one yet, dude. Do you realize that?

01:30:54.080 --> 01:31:01.680
Yeah, and we've been recording for like an hour and a half, an hour and 25 minutes, which

01:31:01.680 --> 01:31:05.360
is fine. I just didn't realize we had this many stories to go along with this shit. Did

01:31:05.360 --> 01:31:11.020
you? No, I had no idea. I mean, it's been so long since I've thought about any of this

01:31:11.020 --> 01:31:16.560
stuff. I know, right? It's amazing that old folks like us can still remember this far back.

01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:24.260
Yeah, I know. Gee, thanks for making me feel old. Hey, I said old folks like us. Yeah, like

01:31:24.260 --> 01:31:31.580
us, please. Well, listen, I'm not too old to be a pimp. Episode 27, because that was four

01:31:31.580 --> 01:31:36.380
years ago, so maybe I'm not a pimp anymore. Not that I ever really was. But episode 27

01:31:36.380 --> 01:31:41.820
was the legend of the cookie pimp. Kind of a joke that the guys at the Fort Lauderdale

01:31:41.820 --> 01:31:48.740
2600 meeting used to call me because, and this I guess maybe was another meme or a long-running

01:31:48.740 --> 01:31:55.540
myth or story about this. All right, we, like every 2600 meeting or most 2600 meeting, we met

01:31:55.540 --> 01:32:01.120
in a mall down in Fort Lauderdale. And we were there every month, first Friday of every month,

01:32:01.120 --> 01:32:08.080
you know, for a long time. And there was a very attractive young lady from Chile, from

01:32:08.080 --> 01:32:17.280
Chile, as it turned out. And she worked in the Everything's a Cookie store, which is, I

01:32:17.280 --> 01:32:20.180
don't know, what do you call them? Mrs. Fields or something like that. I don't know what they're

01:32:20.180 --> 01:32:23.260
called. I call it an Everything's a Cookie store for obvious reasons. Everything's a cookie.

01:32:24.000 --> 01:32:29.800
Kind of like Everything's a Dollar Store, except Everything's a Cookie. So she worked there

01:32:29.800 --> 01:32:36.940
and she was kind of hot, you know. She was cute. Young lady, probably 17 or so at the time,

01:32:37.020 --> 01:32:42.620
17, 18, something like that. I know she turned 18, so while I knew her. But I would go over

01:32:42.620 --> 01:32:47.140
there occasionally and buy a cookie at our meeting, but also chat this young lady up a

01:32:47.140 --> 01:32:50.960
little bit, make sure I keep the skills intact, you know. Not that I have a lot of them, but

01:32:50.960 --> 01:32:56.080
I've got to keep them sharp, the ones I have. Do a little social engineering, chat her up

01:32:56.080 --> 01:33:00.520
exactly. And you know when I say half my age, if she's 18, I'm 36, she was literally half

01:33:00.520 --> 01:33:02.780
my age. That's cool.

01:33:03.000 --> 01:33:07.220
A little under it. And I would, I'd go over there and I would chat her up for a little

01:33:07.220 --> 01:33:11.420
while. We'd laugh. She was a nice girl and everything. And some of the other guys at the

01:33:11.420 --> 01:33:15.220
meeting would kind of give me a hard time and joke about it and saying that, you know,

01:33:15.220 --> 01:33:19.440
oh, you couldn't get her and you're not really chatting to her. You're just, you know, she's

01:33:19.440 --> 01:33:26.280
just waiting on you or whatever. And, you know, so they basically challenged me over there,

01:33:26.320 --> 01:33:30.140
why don't you go over there and get some free food from her. So, all right. Well, I walked

01:33:30.140 --> 01:33:34.960
over there, laid my Mac down. I come back a few minutes later with a whole bag full of

01:33:34.960 --> 01:33:36.160
cookies for everybody in the group.

01:33:37.200 --> 01:33:37.520
Nice.

01:33:37.920 --> 01:33:41.940
Score, right? You know, she's my homegirl. We were cool. So, I went over there, came back

01:33:41.940 --> 01:33:45.480
a whole box of cookies for everybody at the meeting. And it was funny because they're

01:33:45.480 --> 01:33:50.320
all looking back over at her and she's waving. And it was really cool. So, really fun. And

01:33:50.320 --> 01:33:54.240
yeah, I can get whatever anytime I wanted. I'm not going to take advantage of her giving

01:33:54.240 --> 01:33:58.900
me free stuff all the time to get her in trouble. But, you know, get some free cookies and an

01:33:58.900 --> 01:34:03.340
icy or something like that every once in a while. That was nice. So, that began the ongoing

01:34:03.340 --> 01:34:08.540
relationship with the cookie girl. And, you know, contrary to a lot of jokes and contrary

01:34:08.540 --> 01:34:11.920
to maybe popular belief, we've mentioned it on the show a few times that, you know,

01:34:11.940 --> 01:34:17.560
when I talked to her and stuff. But, no, I never actually had a real relationship with

01:34:17.560 --> 01:34:22.920
this young lady. Like I said, she was half my age. But, yeah, I couldn't bring myself.

01:34:23.200 --> 01:34:28.020
I don't know. Are you going to yell at me about this? I couldn't bring myself to go past

01:34:28.020 --> 01:34:33.540
chatting her up and free cookies. I didn't want to go from free cookie to free nookie.

01:34:33.700 --> 01:34:38.960
She's friendly with you and willing to give you free stuff. And she's 18 years old and she's

01:34:38.960 --> 01:34:43.540
from chili and she's hot. Well, Decoder yelled at me. Decoder yelled at me for not hitting

01:34:43.540 --> 01:34:50.660
it. That's... Yeah, I can't really see a reason why you wouldn't. Because I felt that. I'm an

01:34:50.660 --> 01:34:58.220
old dude. Yeah, I know. But that'll keep you young, having sex with young chicks. Yeah,

01:34:58.220 --> 01:35:04.900
well, you sound a lot like Decoder. Yeah, I know. It's scary. I know, right? Well, she

01:35:04.900 --> 01:35:09.340
did bake me a very nice, one of those great big cake cookies and wrote my name on it, said

01:35:09.340 --> 01:35:13.600
goodbye and all that kind of stuff when I moved away. So, she was really nice. So, I would

01:35:13.600 --> 01:35:19.620
have felt really bad, you know. Yeah. So, no, nothing ever happened. She was a nice young

01:35:19.620 --> 01:35:24.280
lady and she stayed that way. Thank you. I have a little bit of respect for the members

01:35:24.280 --> 01:35:28.600
of the female persuasion. I don't believe it. Apparently... You've got a whole bunch

01:35:28.600 --> 01:35:33.760
of little cookie monsters running around you don't even know about. Oh, yeah. Well, I

01:35:33.760 --> 01:35:39.540
hope not. Oh, man. That would suck. Hopefully, there's only one of me in the world because

01:35:39.540 --> 01:35:47.120
if I've ever found the other one, I'd have to kill him. Let's see. Episode 28 showed, I

01:35:47.120 --> 01:35:52.840
guess, that hackers may have a little appreciation and talent for music. Bland actually reveals

01:35:52.840 --> 01:35:58.060
his guitar skills and made some tracks downloadable. I think we closed with one of them on this.

01:36:00.220 --> 01:36:06.500
I don't know. I think we talked about music a little bit on this and people may not know

01:36:06.500 --> 01:36:10.020
that Bland and Quisser is actually trained in classical guitar. I actually went to college,

01:36:10.220 --> 01:36:15.600
got a degree in music. A lot of people don't know that about him. I, personally, I can read

01:36:15.600 --> 01:36:19.640
music. I can play the piano. Not real well, but I took piano lessons for several years when

01:36:19.640 --> 01:36:24.020
I was young. Yeah, you know, some band geeks, I guess. We have some former band members

01:36:24.020 --> 01:36:29.240
in the DDT. Actually, I think we probably have enough to make... Can you play an instrument?

01:36:29.700 --> 01:36:30.580
Besides the skin flute?

01:36:31.600 --> 01:36:34.380
Uh, not exactly, no.

01:36:35.020 --> 01:36:36.680
Eh, eh, eh, eh, eh.

01:36:36.680 --> 01:36:42.440
Uh, well, not very... Well, you can play the jug. You can play the jug band.

01:36:43.300 --> 01:36:47.260
I can play the jug. I could be the, uh, death metal screaming voice. That's no problem.

01:36:47.580 --> 01:36:50.420
Dude, oh, you got... All right, while we keep going, you got to look up which episode that

01:36:50.420 --> 01:36:50.740
was.

01:36:52.340 --> 01:36:53.240
System Shock Store.

01:36:54.320 --> 01:36:57.180
It's got to be in the show notes there somewhere. I don't think we've passed it yet.

01:36:58.240 --> 01:36:58.720
Um...

01:36:58.720 --> 01:36:59.660
No, I don't think so either.

01:36:59.660 --> 01:37:05.680
Yeah, we have, um, point, point, I guess, that, you know, we have other skills, and that's

01:37:05.680 --> 01:37:09.440
something else. I don't, don't want to be pigeonholed like hackers are all, you know, there's

01:37:09.440 --> 01:37:14.280
that stereotype that we're all a bunch of 16-year-old pimply-faced kids in our basement and with the

01:37:14.280 --> 01:37:20.540
lights off and, you know, no, actually, we're a pretty, pretty wide variety of skills and

01:37:20.540 --> 01:37:24.840
interests and stuff like that. Hackers can be musicians. We can have an appreciation for

01:37:24.840 --> 01:37:29.580
music, appreciation for art, talents in music and art and other things. We're not just

01:37:29.580 --> 01:37:34.140
sitting in front of the computer all the time. That's a huge, huge myth. So that's

01:37:34.140 --> 01:37:37.880
something we always tried to quell. Don't pigeonhole us as these tech nerds that don't

01:37:37.880 --> 01:37:44.260
do anything else. We have a lot of skills and interests outside of computers. Now, that

01:37:44.260 --> 01:37:47.460
being said, I do spend a lot of time in front of the computer. I'm not going to lie about

01:37:47.460 --> 01:37:49.320
that, but, you know.

01:37:50.180 --> 01:37:57.320
Speaking of music, episode 29 is another long-running stank joke at my expense, I guess. I admitted

01:37:57.320 --> 01:38:02.620
on the show my obsession with American Idol. So, yes, everybody over the years has had

01:38:02.620 --> 01:38:07.220
a few shots and jokes at my expense for watching American Idol, but I don't care what you say,

01:38:07.280 --> 01:38:13.420
Simon Cowell is the man. He makes the show worth watching. He is so awesome. So, everything

01:38:13.420 --> 01:38:16.640
else is secondary. If he wasn't on the show, I wouldn't like it. I like that show and I

01:38:16.640 --> 01:38:21.980
like Hell's. You ever watch Hell's Kitchen? Gordon Ramsay? Oh, that's a good show, too.

01:38:21.980 --> 01:38:26.900
So, it's always about the host. If the host is interesting and good and knows what he's

01:38:26.900 --> 01:38:29.420
talking about, that's what makes the show good. Honesty.

01:38:31.720 --> 01:38:37.320
Oh, let's see. Episode 31. 31 was our first on-air three-way.

01:38:39.680 --> 01:38:40.040
Interesting.

01:38:40.360 --> 01:38:41.060
Is that getting you hot?

01:38:41.100 --> 01:38:41.280
Okay.

01:38:41.580 --> 01:38:42.540
Am I getting you hot yet?

01:38:45.300 --> 01:38:45.660
No.

01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:46.780
No? Not at all?

01:38:47.440 --> 01:38:48.280
Not at all.

01:38:48.280 --> 01:38:52.360
This is one where we broke away from our normal format. You know, I was always rigid

01:38:52.360 --> 01:38:59.380
about having two hosts on the show. Equal co-hosts. Not a host and a guest. Two co-hosts

01:38:59.380 --> 01:39:04.120
that could always, you know, even though I may be the one that talks and introduces the

01:39:04.120 --> 01:39:09.460
date and the episode number and stuff like that. Always co-hosts on the show. Two people.

01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:13.220
You could always have different viewpoints. You could debate. You could agree. You could

01:39:13.220 --> 01:39:17.420
disagree, et cetera, et cetera. I always thought that was the dynamic that worked. But at the

01:39:17.420 --> 01:39:23.080
same time, even with the show notes ahead of time and the guests ahead of time, I always

01:39:23.080 --> 01:39:30.180
still was able to flow with the spontaneity that may come up along the way. So even though

01:39:30.180 --> 01:39:35.420
we have show notes, show novels prepared ahead of time and topics, we also would completely

01:39:35.420 --> 01:39:40.020
freestyle. We'd go off topic. Sometimes we would not even have time for the main topic

01:39:40.020 --> 01:39:44.820
because we'd get sidetracked. But I always liked that about the show, too. It's great to

01:39:44.820 --> 01:39:49.600
have show notes and stuff that you want to cover. But never rein yourself in from good

01:39:49.600 --> 01:39:53.240
and interesting topics and conversation if they happen to come up. You've got to be willing

01:39:53.240 --> 01:39:57.660
to go with it. So you've got to be dynamic enough to adapt. Maybe that's social engineering.

01:39:57.820 --> 01:40:03.200
Maybe that's just adaptability in general. Hackers being able to adapt and kind of roll with

01:40:03.200 --> 01:40:11.180
the flow. So this episode, we kind of pushed that because we decided the three-way Bland onto

01:40:11.180 --> 01:40:15.380
the show at the last minute, or actually in the middle of the show, was not in the show

01:40:15.380 --> 01:40:21.540
notes, was never intended. We just, you know, that's how we roll on Binary Revolution Radio.

01:40:21.540 --> 01:40:30.720
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And very shortly after that, after Duel and Bland and I doing the three-way,

01:40:31.060 --> 01:40:36.500
are you hot yet? Uh, now I'm a little bit, since you said Duel. Okay, a little bit hotter, okay.

01:40:37.300 --> 01:40:42.540
A few episodes after that, episode 34 was the first Binary Revolution Radio episode after

01:40:42.540 --> 01:40:49.740
RFA ended. RFA's final episode was just before this. RFA lasted for two years to the very day.

01:40:49.740 --> 01:40:54.260
And at this point, on Binary Revolution Radio, we could only hope to make it that far. We

01:40:54.260 --> 01:40:59.360
were on episode 34, not even through a full season yet, so boy, if we could make it another

01:40:59.360 --> 01:41:04.760
two years. And that was kind of the goal, is RFA for two years, Binary Revolution Radio

01:41:04.760 --> 01:41:09.040
for two years, and then maybe something else. New shows starting up and lasting for two years.

01:41:09.120 --> 01:41:15.760
Somebody taking the torch, so to speak, and starting up a new show that would last for a few

01:41:15.760 --> 01:41:21.820
more years. Um, we ended up going four, so whether that's good or bad, I guess the audience

01:41:21.820 --> 01:41:29.540
can be the judge of that. But, um, and on episode 35 is when we debuted the DDD Hack Radio server.

01:41:30.000 --> 01:41:37.220
First 24-7 radio station for all hacking content all the time. A lot of shows had come up. Like

01:41:37.220 --> 01:41:42.740
I said, we encouraged people to do shows. Um, RFA was ending, but we had, of course, the archive of

01:41:42.740 --> 01:41:47.860
RFA shows. Weekly, new weekly episodes of Binary Revolution Radio would debut on DDP Hack Radio and

01:41:47.860 --> 01:41:53.220
Rant Radio. Um, a lot of other great shows, and that are, some of them are still running today. Some

01:41:53.220 --> 01:41:57.800
of them have fallen to the wayside, like Default Radio. We would always stream Default Radio on the

01:41:57.800 --> 01:42:02.900
show. A little something called Freak Factor on the show. Um, there were so many of them out there

01:42:02.900 --> 01:42:09.840
that we actually put together a 24-7 radio station, which is actually pretty hard. Uh, a little

01:42:09.840 --> 01:42:14.060
back story to that. A lot of people may think that that's something that's easy to do. There are a lot

01:42:14.060 --> 01:42:21.540
of other hacking sites that have created their own radio station 24-7 that maybe knew about us. Maybe

01:42:21.540 --> 01:42:25.220
they created it not knowing that we already exist or whatever or thought they could do it better, but

01:42:25.220 --> 01:42:29.740
they all run into the same problem. And I know you're familiar. You realize this as well because

01:42:29.740 --> 01:42:36.140
you've worked with this product before, but the software out there, Shoutcast or Icecast or whatever

01:42:36.140 --> 01:42:43.500
you use, is great and simple to set up and just stream a bunch of MP3 files from a playlist. Randomly,

01:42:44.140 --> 01:42:48.380
set them in sequence to, you know, whatever your playlist you want to set up. It'll play a set number of

01:42:48.380 --> 01:42:57.820
files one after the other. What it won't do out of the box is play shows at a scheduled set start time.

01:42:57.820 --> 01:43:03.980
And you can do some hokery-pokery to set up Cron to start or kick off something at a certain time,

01:43:03.980 --> 01:43:09.660
and you'd have to kick the stream and then have it forcibly start a news show. You could do that.

01:43:09.660 --> 01:43:16.060
Um, but even that was cumbersome and not really a most dynamic solution, and it would require

01:43:16.060 --> 01:43:20.860
everybody having access to go in there and access Cron and make the changes to launch off their program.

01:43:21.660 --> 01:43:26.220
And since the file name changed every week with the number in the title or other things,

01:43:27.020 --> 01:43:31.420
sometimes changing differently, not even the number, something else in the title changed

01:43:31.420 --> 01:43:37.660
in the file name. So that wasn't the easiest solution. So Nick 85 and I talked about it and Nick

01:43:38.860 --> 01:43:43.180
all pretty much all on his own, croat all of the code and a whole custom system for us

01:43:43.820 --> 01:43:51.020
that he and I designed that would allow hosts to easily connect to a server through an administration

01:43:51.020 --> 01:43:58.540
interface and easily upload and subsequently schedule their show. We sent us, uh, we give them the right

01:43:58.540 --> 01:44:02.940
authority and everything. They could set up their show to start at a predetermined time. They would

01:44:02.940 --> 01:44:08.220
upload it and then when that time came, it would automatically play at that time. And then later on,

01:44:09.020 --> 01:44:14.380
the ability that they could connect at a predetermined time, kick the stream that was playing when

01:44:14.380 --> 01:44:20.380
their designated time was, and actually stream live shows. That was used for the Linux link text show

01:44:20.380 --> 01:44:25.500
and for Freak Factor. Those are two shows that would be playing, you know, if there's, if there's not

01:44:25.500 --> 01:44:32.060
a scheduled show running, it would play random stuff on the, what we call the fallback rotation, which was, uh,

01:44:32.060 --> 01:44:37.260
reruns basically, for lack of a better word. And when it was time for a scheduled show to come on,

01:44:37.260 --> 01:44:42.460
the prime time, eight o'clock, nine o'clock, whatever the case may be. Um, and just to hear

01:44:42.460 --> 01:44:45.900
the little note of trivia, Binary Revolution Radio always started on that date and time

01:44:46.460 --> 01:44:51.420
because that's when we set up to start with Rant Radio from episode one and we just never changed

01:44:51.420 --> 01:44:56.380
it. Rant Radio was always good to us and they had us penciled into that slot. So we've always stayed

01:44:56.380 --> 01:45:03.340
there and never changed in case anybody ever wondered about that. So, um, the, um, yeah,

01:45:03.340 --> 01:45:08.700
I gotta, I gotta admit, I've, I've played with, uh, the streaming software to get Freak Factor

01:45:08.700 --> 01:45:12.540
up and running and man, it's, it's all really garbage. And what you're talking about, you know,

01:45:12.540 --> 01:45:17.580
having an interface deal for those scheduled shows and things like that, like, without that, it's

01:45:17.580 --> 01:45:21.740
so hard to use that garbage. You can pay money and get commercial software that'll do all that stuff.

01:45:21.740 --> 01:45:27.580
A lot of money. Oh yeah. And it's, it's really frustrating because if, uh, if you're streaming

01:45:27.580 --> 01:45:32.380
something to the server and then you disconnect and then reconnect something else, um, you know,

01:45:32.380 --> 01:45:35.260
all the people who were connected in the old version of Shotcast, I don't know if the new one

01:45:35.260 --> 01:45:38.860
fixes this, but they all get disconnected because there was nothing for it to stream. Like, weird

01:45:38.860 --> 01:45:44.940
problems like that just make it really annoying to try to get everything up and running. So I have

01:45:44.940 --> 01:45:50.780
mad respect for, uh, for Look84 and, and all the code that he wrote to get the thing up and running.

01:45:50.780 --> 01:45:55.420
It's, it's amazing that, uh, that nobody's done it before. And he just kind of, he's like,

01:45:55.420 --> 01:45:59.900
all right, whatever needs to be done, I'll just do it. And worked it up and it works to this day.

01:45:59.900 --> 01:46:04.220
And you know, Nick has always been great about that. Nick is definitely a, okay, I'll do it

01:46:04.220 --> 01:46:11.020
kind of guy. So he's done so much great stuff. Um, and actually, yeah, there is, there is software

01:46:11.020 --> 01:46:16.860
out there, but it is expensive, thousands of dollars. And I think on top of that, like, uh,

01:46:16.860 --> 01:46:22.940
annual renewal fees and stuff like that, licensing and whatnot, and they're all windows based.

01:46:23.900 --> 01:46:29.020
And yeah, we're not running a windows server. So those do us no good. Uh, Rant Radio, uh, actually

01:46:29.020 --> 01:46:34.060
was using a pay solution. I don't remember which one, but I had talked to, um, uh, Smokehouse back

01:46:34.060 --> 01:46:38.140
in the day in Sumerian and asked them about it. And, um, yeah, they were using, I forget what it was,

01:46:38.140 --> 01:46:42.860
but they were using, uh, something to do their scheduling with. Because we wanted to know how they

01:46:42.860 --> 01:46:47.180
do it to see if we could do something similar. But, uh, yeah, we had to do it, design it all

01:46:47.180 --> 01:46:51.020
from scratch. And I still to this day haven't seen anybody else who did not, who have designed

01:46:51.020 --> 01:46:58.140
anything like that. Um, yeah. And, and that station, one of the things about it was we had

01:46:58.140 --> 01:47:05.500
default radio there and binary revolution radio, Radio Freak America, Freak Factor, four of the biggest

01:47:05.500 --> 01:47:12.220
shows at the time, you know, all on that were debuting and streaming, not some exclusively,

01:47:12.220 --> 01:47:17.100
some not exclusively on DDP hack radio. There was actually reason to come in and listen to this

01:47:17.100 --> 01:47:22.300
all the time. And then they would get added to the fallback rotation or the reruns. And you can

01:47:22.300 --> 01:47:26.220
listen to them all day long at work the next day or over the course of the next days, which is what

01:47:26.220 --> 01:47:30.860
I used to like. I listened to our own station all the time while I was at work listening to reruns

01:47:30.860 --> 01:47:36.860
of the shows that I had missed the previous nights. So I always enjoyed listening to it. So I hope,

01:47:36.860 --> 01:47:48.380
hope other people did as well. Uh, let's see. Uh, 38. Oh, 38, uh, 38 was just kind of funny because

01:47:48.380 --> 01:47:52.460
we always make this joke about how there's no female listeners, no female hackers, and

01:47:53.100 --> 01:47:58.300
probably another one of my alienate all of the female listener moments. I used the phrase

01:47:58.300 --> 01:48:04.060
Breastuses on the show for the first time. So I'm sure that might not be, yeah, in retrospect,

01:48:04.060 --> 01:48:07.100
I could see why maybe there aren't as many female hackers listening to the show.

01:48:08.700 --> 01:48:10.540
Uh, bad mood, dude. Yeah.

01:48:10.540 --> 01:48:13.900
Like, you know what? Even if he didn't say it, it's not like they're going to get interested

01:48:13.900 --> 01:48:16.860
because he didn't say it. There's a little more so than that.

01:48:16.860 --> 01:48:24.940
I don't know. Is that, hmm, I don't know. I, I, you know what? It, I, I just, I've chalked that up to

01:48:24.940 --> 01:48:29.660
the same reason that I dropped the, the language every once in a while. You know, I don't think it's

01:48:29.660 --> 01:48:35.340
like intentional. If it fits into the, what I'm talking about, then I'll say words or whatever. And

01:48:35.340 --> 01:48:39.820
I don't know. Breastuses, I say it all the time in real life, so it just slipped out. I don't know.

01:48:40.540 --> 01:48:43.020
I'm sure I used it quite a few other episodes since then.

01:48:45.020 --> 01:48:51.020
Uh, let's see. Somewhere along, see, right along in that, that, uh, numbering, like 41 and 42,

01:48:51.020 --> 01:48:56.060
for example, there was some, there were some big internet events that were going on, like the

01:48:56.060 --> 01:49:00.380
launch of Gmail. That was a huge thing still to this day. I mean, look at how big Gmail is.

01:49:00.380 --> 01:49:06.620
Um, Microsoft tried to buy Google around that same time. So gosh, if you could imagine what

01:49:06.620 --> 01:49:10.780
that could have turned out like four years ago, Google was big, but they weren't what they are now.

01:49:11.660 --> 01:49:15.820
They were still within the realm of possibilities that they could be bought out by a Microsoft or

01:49:15.820 --> 01:49:21.660
somebody. And I think Yahoo even had put in a bid or something, but man, could you imagine if they

01:49:21.660 --> 01:49:28.940
would have? That could be scary today. Now, Google, I mean, I know you're no Google fan, but, um,

01:49:30.380 --> 01:49:35.260
it would be a lot worse than it is now. Right. And as I say, Google, it has gotten too big

01:49:35.260 --> 01:49:39.340
for their britches. They have grown too big in my opinion, but on their own, if they would have

01:49:39.340 --> 01:49:46.700
been part of Microsoft as well, yikes, that could have been really interesting. I want to go down,

01:49:46.700 --> 01:49:51.180
go back in time and see what happens down an alternate reality path or something and see how

01:49:51.180 --> 01:49:58.300
it happens in an alternate world. But this was kind of the beginning. This was, uh, what was this? 2004 by now.

01:49:59.180 --> 01:50:03.820
And was the beginning of my whole anti Google sentiments as Google was growing.

01:50:04.460 --> 01:50:09.660
And the way that whole merger almost happened got me realizing how big Google was and how they

01:50:09.660 --> 01:50:15.180
were growing and Gmail coming in and the controversy of them putting ads in the email and people were

01:50:15.180 --> 01:50:19.900
all up in arms about, are they reading email? Are they not reading emails? It just automatically system

01:50:19.900 --> 01:50:23.900
robots, you know, going in there looking for keywords, et cetera, et cetera.

01:50:23.900 --> 01:50:30.060
And got me looking into it and realizing that Google was starting to gather a lot of information

01:50:30.060 --> 01:50:35.180
on people and people really should know that. That's all like nothing. Not that there was anything

01:50:35.180 --> 01:50:41.500
necessarily wrong with it per se, just that people probably don't realize that how much stuff they're

01:50:41.500 --> 01:50:46.540
getting Google. So I started pointing it out back then and everybody thought I was this big,

01:50:46.540 --> 01:50:55.180
crazy conspiracy theorist like decoder, but for other reasons. But, um, now here we are four

01:50:55.180 --> 01:51:00.460
years later and you see all kinds of people starting to finally open their eyes that yeah,

01:51:00.460 --> 01:51:07.580
Google's big. Google is big brother right now. Google has so much information and tracking so much stuff

01:51:07.580 --> 01:51:13.180
and logging and analyzing it. People are finally starting to see that Google is a threat to privacy

01:51:13.180 --> 01:51:18.140
and that's all I really ever really wanted in the first place. So it took everybody three and a half

01:51:18.140 --> 01:51:23.100
years to catch up, but at least people are seeing it now. And I guess the question now is, is it too

01:51:23.100 --> 01:51:28.060
late? What can be done about it, if anything, or whether it should be done? I guess it's a point of debate as

01:51:28.060 --> 01:51:36.780
well. Um, episode 43, another alienate all female listeners episode probably, um, was when I told

01:51:36.780 --> 01:51:43.900
the story about how my friend got chicks naked for free on his couch in his room. And yeah, just go

01:51:43.900 --> 01:51:47.500
listen to that episode. That's all I can really say. Yeah, you know, now that you mentioned it,

01:51:47.500 --> 01:51:55.180
I gotta go back and listen to that myself. Yeah, that was, um, good times. Very, very, very interesting.

01:51:55.180 --> 01:52:05.260
That guy was, he was a trip. He was fun. He was funny. That was a pretty, I never ever thought

01:52:05.260 --> 01:52:14.700
that that could actually work. And yeah, anyway, go listen to that episode. Um, 44, politics on binary

01:52:14.700 --> 01:52:20.140
revolution radio. Oh no's. Don't we have an anti-politics rule? One of the things we always

01:52:20.140 --> 01:52:24.860
insisted on not doing politics on binary revolution radio that was covered by other shows.

01:52:25.260 --> 01:52:31.180
Very well, very thoroughly, and every quarter in the magazine, and et cetera, et cetera.

01:52:31.180 --> 01:52:35.900
So, we always had a rule against it. So, just the title alone of this episode about the Patriot Act

01:52:36.780 --> 01:52:42.060
was very political in nature, but we were very careful, and we tried to just sort of address

01:52:42.060 --> 01:52:47.180
this political topic as it relates to hackers and technology and avoid getting into the whole

01:52:47.180 --> 01:52:53.020
politics and discussion of war. Again, this was when war was the big topic everywhere that everybody

01:52:53.020 --> 01:52:59.660
was talking about. We were always careful over the years to try to walk the line on these borderline

01:52:59.660 --> 01:53:05.420
political topics, because that's one thing that we never ever wanted the show to be.

01:53:05.420 --> 01:53:15.100
Um, however, that being said, that kind of led us to episode 46. I mean, we did, we certainly

01:53:15.100 --> 01:53:22.620
weren't without controversy over the years, and 46 was our friend Kevin Rose comes back into the game

01:53:22.620 --> 01:53:29.980
again. This whole Kevin Rose controversy, as it were. Um, this was the episode, and you probably

01:53:29.980 --> 01:53:35.820
remember this one. I think you do. This was the episode where we called Kevin Rose out. Kevin Rose,

01:53:35.820 --> 01:53:41.580
of course, was, uh, from, uh, the screensavers, or that's what it was called, right? The show on

01:53:41.580 --> 01:53:47.580
Tech TV that we talked about earlier. Now, I had already been seeing in my logs hits from Tech TV. I

01:53:47.580 --> 01:53:52.940
know that they were coming from that Tech TV site, was browsing our forums, browsing our website,

01:53:52.940 --> 01:53:58.620
listening to the radio show, um, and how convenient that a lot of our topics were showing up on there,

01:53:58.620 --> 01:54:04.140
being presented by someone else, and never ever giving credit. Well, you know what?

01:54:04.140 --> 01:54:08.620
A lot of that could be coincidence. I can't come out and point my finger and say, you absolutely did

01:54:08.620 --> 01:54:14.620
this, or absolutely did that. It's just convenient that we talk about, um, this topic on the show,

01:54:14.620 --> 01:54:19.820
and then you talk about the same topic a few days later, or a week later on your show. I get an article

01:54:19.820 --> 01:54:26.380
published in 2600 Magazine about this topic, and then you present that same topic, and almost, uh, the

01:54:26.380 --> 01:54:31.980
exact examples that I used in my article, and you present them as a dark tip on Tech TV's, the screensavers.

01:54:32.620 --> 01:54:38.380
So, okay, you know what? It's pretty obvious what's happening here. All I ever said was give a little

01:54:38.380 --> 01:54:43.180
credit to it, so that is the only thing that I've ever said, and I kind of said that earlier,

01:54:43.180 --> 01:54:49.260
and I still say that to this day. Well, in this episode, there was the first of a couple of obvious

01:54:50.140 --> 01:54:56.460
examples, and this episode we took issue with Kevin Rose because he presented on the screensavers a

01:54:56.460 --> 01:55:03.900
stun glove, which, um, we had just recently had in the forum X-Logic talk about, and he had talked

01:55:03.900 --> 01:55:08.860
about on the radio show, uh, had talked about it actually on one of the last episodes of RFA,

01:55:08.860 --> 01:55:15.740
and in the forums in detail, and gave all the, um, information, including the exact brand of camera

01:55:15.740 --> 01:55:21.180
and battery that he used to build the stun glove. That's not something that's really coincidental.

01:55:21.180 --> 01:55:26.540
So, there's been many topics that have been over on the screensavers after they had been on my

01:55:26.540 --> 01:55:33.340
articles, or have to have been on our site. Well, the stun glove, he demonstrated on there,

01:55:33.340 --> 01:55:37.260
using the exact brand of camera, disposable camera, with the batteries and everything,

01:55:37.260 --> 01:55:43.900
the exact same thing that, that X-Logic had given the detail on the forums. That's too coincidental to

01:55:43.900 --> 01:55:49.660
happen. And then, even bigger, and again, this is, again, nothing related to that whole hack TV,

01:55:49.660 --> 01:55:55.020
the broken controversy, which we said earlier was not a big deal. Maybe some people tried to put

01:55:55.020 --> 01:55:59.980
two and two together or build it, but it wasn't the case. But what really crossed the line

01:56:01.740 --> 01:56:08.620
was when Kevin Rose presented the segment on, um, the screensavers again on mag cards, magnetic

01:56:08.620 --> 01:56:15.260
strike cards, for example, credit cards and things of that nature, where he actually quoted,

01:56:15.260 --> 01:56:25.420
word for fucking word, from Acidus' site. Acidus is the person who wrote Stripe Snoop and had given

01:56:25.420 --> 01:56:31.340
a presentation and written an article on magnetic cards, how they worked, how you could read information,

01:56:31.340 --> 01:56:35.980
how you could build a reader and put them in and see what's on the cards and then the computer,

01:56:35.980 --> 01:56:40.780
scan it into your computer and save them and everything. He wrote the directions on how to build

01:56:40.780 --> 01:56:46.860
them. He wrote the software on how to read and gain that data. And he wrote an exposition

01:56:47.580 --> 01:56:53.500
in his article on the web page of how to do it. And Kevin Rose went on and presented this information

01:56:53.500 --> 01:57:03.900
on the screensavers word for word from Acidus' website. That's not coincidental. Word for word. And I'm not

01:57:03.900 --> 01:57:10.540
talking about two or three words. I'm talking about paragraphs of information. His whole introduction

01:57:10.540 --> 01:57:18.380
was word for word, the introduction paragraph from Acidus' site. And Acidus and I both agree and said,

01:57:18.380 --> 01:57:24.460
you know what? That isn't a problem. Taking it and presenting it, that's great. Hackers believe in

01:57:24.460 --> 01:57:30.780
sharing information, the free flow of information. The problem was that he presented word for word,

01:57:31.420 --> 01:57:42.460
presented the topic, the software, and not once, not a single time, mentioned Acidus by name.

01:57:42.460 --> 01:57:47.420
And that is wrong. You have to give people credit.

01:57:49.660 --> 01:57:54.620
And that might only be... I know you said, sorry, I know you said you called him out on this. Did

01:57:54.620 --> 01:57:59.980
anybody try to contact him directly? I mean, it's obvious that he was listening to the show. So if

01:57:59.980 --> 01:58:06.140
he said something on the show, he probably heard it. But did anybody like contact Tech TV? I think

01:58:06.140 --> 01:58:11.660
that would have been really interesting. Yes, and actually it did. And what happened was on the

01:58:12.540 --> 01:58:16.460
they have, I guess, for that show. And again, the other thing is, I didn't even have cable

01:58:16.460 --> 01:58:21.820
television at the time. I didn't even watch TV back then. But on the website for the show,

01:58:21.820 --> 01:58:27.660
I guess it's a daily show. And each day they would have a recap and segments and clips from all the

01:58:27.660 --> 01:58:37.020
show and everything. So on the page for that day's show, where that topic was, about three or four

01:58:37.020 --> 01:58:42.300
days after our episode aired, and I probably, or somebody, the air date of this, if you just go

01:58:42.300 --> 01:58:46.620
looking and probably do some Googling. I assume it's still on their site. They put up a notice,

01:58:46.620 --> 01:58:53.260
and it said, update. We were contacted by several people that this information was presented somewhere

01:58:53.260 --> 01:59:00.540
else from someone else. And we want to clarify that we had no knowledge of this. So they basically,

01:59:00.540 --> 01:59:04.300
they denied it. I don't remember what their wording was, but they denied it. That is to say,

01:59:04.300 --> 01:59:10.540
the Stun Glove. The Stun Glove, not the Stripe Snoop. Not the, not Acidus' thing. I don't know if

01:59:10.540 --> 01:59:12.060
they ever responded to that one or not.

01:59:15.180 --> 01:59:20.540
But you know what? Kevin Rose is a multi-millionaire, multi-billionaire, paper

01:59:20.540 --> 01:59:25.340
billionaire by now. Stock options and all that kind of stuff, I'm sure. But he, you know,

01:59:25.340 --> 01:59:31.020
it doesn't matter if he has any credibility as a hacker anymore. When you've got fuck you money,

01:59:31.020 --> 01:59:34.620
it does, who cares if he's got any, he doesn't have any credibility in the hacking scene.

01:59:35.580 --> 01:59:39.020
But who cares? I wouldn't care either if I had fuck you money.

01:59:41.340 --> 01:59:45.900
That's true. Although, I mean, I imagine the people who go to dig, they, they worship him.

01:59:45.900 --> 01:59:46.580
Oh, they do.

01:59:46.580 --> 01:59:48.220
They think dig is the greatest thing in the world.

01:59:48.220 --> 01:59:54.300
Absolutely. Kevin, Kevin Rose could wipe his ass and then sell the toilet paper on eBay.

01:59:55.820 --> 01:59:59.820
Yep. Hey, I don't know how he managed to pull it off. I don't know how he made dig so popular,

01:59:59.820 --> 02:00:03.660
but I wish I had that one ability. That'd be really nice to have.

02:00:03.660 --> 02:00:07.500
He farmed it out. Someone else did the code and programming and stuff behind it.

02:00:07.500 --> 02:00:11.100
Well, yeah, but there was still, I mean, promotion involved. And it's just because

02:00:11.100 --> 02:00:14.060
you have somebody program a site for you doesn't mean it's going to be popular. Now,

02:00:14.060 --> 02:00:19.420
granted, I think he started dig when he was on tech TV. So I'm sure he used that platform

02:00:19.420 --> 02:00:23.900
somewhat to let people know about it. And that had a lot to do with, with it getting started.

02:00:23.900 --> 02:00:31.340
But still, the site's huge now. And the site makes a lot of money. So, whether you like

02:00:31.340 --> 02:00:35.500
him or not, making a site that makes a lot of money like that is impressive.

02:00:35.500 --> 02:00:42.380
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm sure he, the, um, the, um, notoriety or the fame or the credit,

02:00:42.380 --> 02:00:48.220
the, the fact that he was on TV brought a whole lot of that attention over there. So he had an easy

02:00:48.220 --> 02:00:55.020
built-in audience. So that made it really easy. But you know what? I, I still, I, I know what you're

02:00:55.020 --> 02:01:01.180
saying. I don't necessarily disagree, but let's use the example, um, of, of DDP hack radio I mentioned

02:01:01.180 --> 02:01:05.980
earlier. Hey, I give all the credit in the world. Nick 84 wrote all that stuff. You know,

02:01:05.980 --> 02:01:10.700
he and I worked out the idea. You know, I had the idea that, that, well, we can do this and

02:01:10.700 --> 02:01:14.700
can't we just use this? And I even said, Hey, what about ice cast? And how can we make it?

02:01:14.700 --> 02:01:19.740
Doesn't it need to be dynamic for this and that? And Nick 84 is the one that made it happen. He deserves

02:01:19.740 --> 02:01:25.580
all the credit in the world for that. I just, it seems to me, once again, it's the not giving credit

02:01:25.580 --> 02:01:31.020
thing. If I was running dig.com, I would make sure that my programmers get a lot of credit for

02:01:31.020 --> 02:01:36.700
that. I would make sure that their name was as well known as mine, if not more so. Wait a second.

02:01:36.700 --> 02:01:41.020
Now, right before we started recording, you told me that you wrote all that code. Are you changing

02:01:41.020 --> 02:01:48.460
your story? Well, I, that was before the microphone and the phone and now we're recording. So, um,

02:01:49.180 --> 02:01:54.940
yeah, let's come back to that later. Um, yeah, I'll, I'll edit that part out. I hear what you're saying

02:01:54.940 --> 02:01:59.340
about giving credit. Um, I don't know the first thing about, I don't know. I'm not saying that

02:01:59.340 --> 02:02:03.500
he's right at all for, I mean, obviously if you stole something word for word and then denied or

02:02:03.500 --> 02:02:07.260
didn't deny, but just didn't acknowledge it at all. That's not right. But I mean,

02:02:07.260 --> 02:02:11.340
as far as the people who program big, nobody really cares, you know, they were just getting

02:02:11.340 --> 02:02:15.740
paid to do a job probably. Yeah. But God, you're going to have some integrity in life, man.

02:02:16.620 --> 02:02:24.780
Yeah. Golly. I'd rather be, I'd rather be broke and have integrity than be a millionaire without a soul.

02:02:24.940 --> 02:02:29.420
I'm sorry. That's just whatever. Okay. Well that, that brings me to an interesting point.

02:02:29.420 --> 02:02:31.580
Okay. So he did these things that you don't like

02:02:32.380 --> 02:02:38.380
and he became wildly popular and he, you know, everybody says that he's made a lot of money.

02:02:38.380 --> 02:02:41.900
I'm not really sure that he's actually made the money yet. He probably have a lot of stock in,

02:02:41.900 --> 02:02:47.100
uh, in dig and revision three, whatever his network is. Um, but I don't know that it's really

02:02:47.900 --> 02:02:51.180
worth all that much. Like nobody's really, I mean, people have invested money, but I don't know

02:02:51.180 --> 02:02:54.140
that he's gotten that money directly. You know, I think it's all gone back to the company.

02:02:54.140 --> 02:02:56.060
Well, that's what that's. So eventually he'll have a ton of money.

02:02:56.060 --> 02:03:00.140
Right. But now the question is, okay, we're always talking about, we want people to go out

02:03:00.140 --> 02:03:04.060
and produce things, make, make videos and make shows and all that kind of stuff.

02:03:04.060 --> 02:03:08.140
Well, revision three has a lot of shows. Now, whether you like the shows or not,

02:03:08.700 --> 02:03:11.500
is it good or bad that these shows exist?

02:03:11.500 --> 02:03:17.260
Well, I think you're branching off of dig.com and going into a different topic. So you're

02:03:17.260 --> 02:03:23.500
comparing apples and oranges, but, um, the difference is the people that are doing the

02:03:23.500 --> 02:03:29.660
shows on revision three, is that what it's called? Um, they have their names and get credit for the

02:03:29.660 --> 02:03:35.260
shows they're doing. That's my one and only beef is it makes sure that people get credited for the

02:03:35.260 --> 02:03:41.340
work that they do. You know, that's my only thing. So the nature of those shows is the host is

02:03:41.340 --> 02:03:46.940
seen. There's no way really for him to steal that credit. He can do it with other things

02:03:46.940 --> 02:03:52.780
and present stuff on his own behalf. But I guess the only way to make, to make that question

02:03:52.780 --> 02:03:57.980
appropriate or to fit into the scenario is how would you feel if you found out that he stole

02:03:58.860 --> 02:04:03.100
one of those scripted shows, like one of the comedies or something like that, that he completely,

02:04:03.100 --> 02:04:08.300
someone else had done it last year and it wasn't as popular as well known. And he just completely

02:04:08.300 --> 02:04:12.780
redid it under his name without ever getting credit or mention to the original. That's what's

02:04:12.780 --> 02:04:13.900
going on.

02:04:13.900 --> 02:04:18.540
I think that, I think my question is really like, he did all these things and got himself

02:04:18.540 --> 02:04:23.340
started, but then he used his money to make all of, he didn't make the shows, but he's using this

02:04:23.340 --> 02:04:28.540
money to pay these other people to make these shows. So some people blindly hate this guy so much

02:04:28.540 --> 02:04:34.300
that no matter what he does, it's bad. And I think that's kind of silly. Like whether you like him in the past,

02:04:34.300 --> 02:04:38.780
the question is, if you hated him in the past or you disliked him in the past,

02:04:38.780 --> 02:04:43.260
what do you think of the money that he's putting into these shows now? Do you dislike the shows

02:04:43.260 --> 02:04:47.020
just based on the fact that they're connected to him? Or are you willing to say, you know what,

02:04:47.020 --> 02:04:50.380
screw it, at least something good came out of it. Because that's kind of the way I look at it.

02:04:50.380 --> 02:04:55.500
All right, no. All right, I'll go with that. No, I don't hate him for that. I think,

02:04:56.780 --> 02:05:02.220
I don't like the show's contents. Actually, some of them are okay. Some of them are better than others. But

02:05:02.220 --> 02:05:07.100
yeah, Dignation is one of those shows I've said many times, I don't like shows that just read the

02:05:07.100 --> 02:05:11.980
news to me. If I wanted to see what the top five stories on Digg were, you know what I'd do? I'd go

02:05:11.980 --> 02:05:17.820
to Digg. I don't need to. Yeah, you wouldn't have to download like 120 megabytes of video. Yeah.

02:05:17.820 --> 02:05:21.180
I mean, seriously, I just, that's what I mean. I don't like the content of it, but I'm certainly

02:05:21.180 --> 02:05:27.660
not hating on him for doing it or for creating a website where he can put a bunch of content out

02:05:27.660 --> 02:05:33.980
there. That's good, providing content. But it's, there's also motives involved. And I don't know,

02:05:33.980 --> 02:05:37.900
my motive is to get content out there and to get people producing stuff. I don't charge money. I

02:05:37.900 --> 02:05:43.340
don't make money because that's what I'm about. And someone else taking advantage of my community

02:05:43.340 --> 02:05:48.300
and trying to make money off of them. You know, The Broken was not a show because, and this is my

02:05:48.300 --> 02:05:53.820
opinion, of course, The Hack TV was a show that we wanted people to participate in. We always begged

02:05:53.820 --> 02:05:58.460
people to record some stuff. Let's put a show out as a community, as a group. A few people actually

02:05:58.460 --> 02:06:03.740
did it. We ended up doing most of the recording and filming, but it was a community-based thing.

02:06:03.740 --> 02:06:12.540
It was always free and there was never any thought or concept of money in it. The Broken was made to

02:06:12.540 --> 02:06:18.140
sell t-shirts. The Broken t-shirt link was on the first page of the site. You know, it was all about

02:06:18.140 --> 02:06:24.940
making some money off selling t-shirts. Now, the web, as it were, has turned into a different

02:06:25.900 --> 02:06:32.220
financial world or economy, I don't know what the word it is, where the money's in advertising. So,

02:06:32.860 --> 02:06:36.300
it's in his best interest. So, you think he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart to provide

02:06:36.300 --> 02:06:40.700
content to the hacking community or to the internet community? Or do you think he's doing it so he can

02:06:40.700 --> 02:06:46.220
make money off of Google Ads? I call it Jason Calacanis syndrome. You know, hiring people,

02:06:47.340 --> 02:06:52.060
I don't think he's as bad as Calacanis as far as that goes, but hiring people and paying him slave

02:06:52.060 --> 02:06:57.020
wages while you roll in the millions, hey, I'll host your show for free, I'll put it on my site,

02:06:57.020 --> 02:07:01.740
help promote it a little bit, and I'll give you a little bit of scratch so that I can put ads all

02:07:01.740 --> 02:07:07.180
over the site and make a whole lot of scratch for myself. That's not really something to be proud of in

02:07:07.180 --> 02:07:10.860
my book. I mean, I know that's a common business model now. Calacanis made

02:07:11.420 --> 02:07:18.300
bajillions of dollars selling it out to Yoohoo and stuff like that by paying bloggers slave wages

02:07:18.300 --> 02:07:22.700
for stuff they were already doing, you know, and him keeping and bragging about how many millions he

02:07:22.700 --> 02:07:28.940
made. That is not a source of pride to me. I would be shamed if I did that. I would never do that.

02:07:30.140 --> 02:07:33.980
Of course, it's easy for me to say that, but I don't think I'd ever do that. I couldn't live with

02:07:33.980 --> 02:07:40.380
myself. I have a conscience and I have some integrity. I try to. Right. No, I think that

02:07:40.380 --> 02:07:46.860
you hit the nail on the head. I don't know that Kevin Rose has the same motives as everybody else

02:07:46.860 --> 02:07:53.260
in the scene. I don't know about, I know Jason Calacanis from what I've heard. He's definitely,

02:07:53.820 --> 02:08:00.380
he's all about the money. Mahalo, that site that he started up, I hate to give it any type of

02:08:00.380 --> 02:08:04.620
attention, but you know, they're paying people like, from what I hear, like $30,000 a year or

02:08:04.620 --> 02:08:09.420
something to sit there and, you know, wrap all these web pages up and write reviews and things

02:08:09.420 --> 02:08:13.260
like that. It's just, it's just ridiculous. I don't know if the financials are big or I don't know,

02:08:13.900 --> 02:08:18.940
you know, revision three. I don't know how much those people get paid, but I don't, I couldn't say

02:08:18.940 --> 02:08:23.260
in the top of my head that they're getting ripped off. And I imagine people who are joining big now,

02:08:23.260 --> 02:08:28.380
hopefully they'd be getting, they'd be getting decent wages, but that's, that's not it, you know, there.

02:08:28.380 --> 02:08:32.300
And I don't know, and I'm not, I don't even want to go any further into this. I'm not throwing

02:08:32.300 --> 02:08:37.740
accusations and just to reiterate, I don't have a hatred for Kevin Rose. I do not. There's no war

02:08:37.740 --> 02:08:42.940
between he and I. I don't, you know, I'm not, couldn't care less, frankly. We're in two different

02:08:42.940 --> 02:08:48.700
worlds. It's just that he has no credibility in my world, just like I'm sure I have no credibility

02:08:48.700 --> 02:08:56.540
in his. So, you know, that's all I have to say about that. Yeah, fair enough. I just, you know,

02:08:56.540 --> 02:09:00.140
I like to kind of play devil's advocate just to make sure that people know that, you know,

02:09:00.140 --> 02:09:05.500
we don't hate anybody really for, uh, I mean, you have to do a lot to make us, to make us hate you.

02:09:05.500 --> 02:09:10.540
Uh, but I just want to let people know that we, we do definitely look at, at both sides of it.

02:09:10.540 --> 02:09:14.060
And I, we're not the type of people to hold grudges. So we just want to make sure that

02:09:14.060 --> 02:09:17.980
everybody's got all the information. So I got to sit here and play devil's advocate.

02:09:17.980 --> 02:09:23.180
Oh, and I, exactly. And that's why I wanted to bring this up on the show to clarify. I,

02:09:23.180 --> 02:09:26.940
you know, I don't, I know people think, and that's why I said there was the whole hack TV

02:09:26.940 --> 02:09:32.220
broken thing. And then there was the, um, you know, me calling him out for this incident and,

02:09:32.220 --> 02:09:37.660
uh, and presenting my articles and some of my Google content and et cetera, et cetera,

02:09:37.660 --> 02:09:42.140
without ever giving any credit for it. You know what? I'm just saying give credit where credit is due.

02:09:42.140 --> 02:09:45.820
That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I don't hate him. I'm not going to,

02:09:45.820 --> 02:09:49.740
you know, kill him in his sleep or anything. You know, I don't have any hatred for the guy.

02:09:49.740 --> 02:09:54.860
I just don't have a whole lot of respect for him as a hacker. Now, I guess maybe,

02:09:55.420 --> 02:09:59.580
I can't even say he's a businessman because I don't know enough about it, but if he's got

02:09:59.580 --> 02:10:03.340
Calacanis syndrome, then no, I don't have any respect for Calacanis for sure either. So,

02:10:04.060 --> 02:10:07.500
I don't know. I don't have any beef with him. You know, I don't, like you said,

02:10:07.500 --> 02:10:11.340
I'm not trying to hate on him. There are other people, you know what,

02:10:11.340 --> 02:10:15.020
you stab me in the back, you turn on me at the drop of a hat. Those are the kind of people I,

02:10:16.220 --> 02:10:19.100
there are people who have done worse things to me than Kevin Rose. That's,

02:10:19.100 --> 02:10:23.420
that's the easiest way to say it. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So that's,

02:10:23.420 --> 02:10:28.620
that's going to wrap up season one. Episode 52, of course, was our one year anniversary.

02:10:28.620 --> 02:10:35.020
So that was our big milestone for us. We wrapped up season one and it took us longer to talk about

02:10:35.020 --> 02:10:40.900
season one on this episode than it probably did to record some of the episodes.

02:10:42.300 --> 02:10:47.340
Um, I don't know, man, you take a breath and give it a shot at season two. What do you think?

02:10:49.180 --> 02:10:53.580
Uh, man, this is going to be a long show, but I, this is fun. I think we're getting a lot,

02:10:53.580 --> 02:10:56.540
I think people are hearing a lot of stuff they might not have ever heard or known about.

02:10:57.740 --> 02:11:01.420
Yeah. I think we may want to, we may want to go through season two a little faster, but.

02:11:01.420 --> 02:11:05.180
All right. Well, let's speed up here. Let's jump into season two, which was

02:11:05.820 --> 02:11:09.820
kind of started off knowing everybody know that I actually was certifiable,

02:11:09.820 --> 02:11:15.500
not certifiably insane or certified ethical hacker. And I went into a little rant about that.

02:11:16.140 --> 02:11:20.220
So go back and listen to episode 53. If you want to hear more about that, we won't rehash that one.

02:11:20.220 --> 02:11:28.380
And in lieu of time, but the short version is that, uh, there's, you know, colleges, for example,

02:11:28.380 --> 02:11:35.100
have to be accredited, accredited by, uh, uh, an organization that sets standards for what all,

02:11:35.100 --> 02:11:39.980
what a college education should teach and should contain at least certain parameters so that not

02:11:39.980 --> 02:11:45.580
any Joe, Bob, Tom, Dick, and Harry can go out and create a college or call it a college and hand out

02:11:45.580 --> 02:11:51.900
degrees. There's no such thing for certification. So some of them, like a Microsoft certification,

02:11:51.900 --> 02:11:57.260
Microsoft issues it, that's kind of appropriate. But I got something called a certified ethical hacker

02:11:58.140 --> 02:12:02.780
that came from some organization that I don't know who in the world they are to authorize what's

02:12:02.780 --> 02:12:07.260
a certified ethical hacker or not. They don't, they're not hackers, so they don't know hacker

02:12:07.260 --> 02:12:12.060
ethic. They're forcing some other ethic on me, ethic on me. And I don't know, take any kind

02:12:12.060 --> 02:12:16.700
of certification with a grain of salt. If they're big ones from Oracle, Microsoft, things like that,

02:12:17.660 --> 02:12:21.660
then they probably have a little bit more credibility. But check into who's generating

02:12:21.660 --> 02:12:26.460
these certifications to see if they're really worth the paper they're printed on. Or if frankly,

02:12:26.460 --> 02:12:32.380
they came from me and I just started the website on my, on a page. And I promise you that we're

02:12:32.380 --> 02:12:36.860
legitimate. But a lot of people probably don't care.

02:12:40.140 --> 02:12:40.540
Would you?

02:12:43.340 --> 02:12:50.220
I don't know. I'm a, I can't, I can't really tell you how I feel about certifications. I think they're

02:12:50.220 --> 02:12:56.220
just, they're just garbage. You know, take a class so you can learn something. But don't, don't take it

02:12:56.220 --> 02:12:58.940
with the goal of getting a certification. Certifications are just ridiculous.

02:12:58.940 --> 02:13:02.940
Yeah. Well, you always take it for the goal of getting the knowledge. That's what it's about.

02:13:04.220 --> 02:13:05.420
Learning the content.

02:13:05.420 --> 02:13:12.380
Let's see. How about episode 56? That was a favorite of mine. Acidus, who I mentioned

02:13:12.380 --> 02:13:17.580
earlier, he debuts on Binary Revolution Radio. Acidus and I had met at some conferences. We

02:13:17.580 --> 02:13:21.740
met at Freak Nick. We met at Hope a few times. We'd become pretty, pretty good friends just from

02:13:22.380 --> 02:13:27.660
meeting at the conferences every year. A couple of different conferences and started talking,

02:13:27.660 --> 02:13:30.860
communicating through email, working on some projects together. So it was good to get him on

02:13:30.860 --> 02:13:40.140
the show for the first of many times. Episode 57. Is this one, I think, let me see, 57. Were you on

02:13:40.140 --> 02:13:52.300
that one? Yeah, I think I was. I, I'm, that was the one. 57 was the database. Well, was, it was just

02:13:52.300 --> 02:13:58.780
called databases in general. And that one was kind of a touchy topic for me only because I always been

02:13:58.780 --> 02:14:03.500
hesitant to talk about it. It took a whole season before we went into this topic. And that's because

02:14:04.140 --> 02:14:08.460
that's basically my job, my day-to-day livelihood. That's what I do for a living.

02:14:09.180 --> 02:14:12.700
And I was always kind of nervous about dropping too many docs about it or getting into too much

02:14:12.700 --> 02:14:17.820
detail. And, and I still don't go into a whole lot of detail about it to this day. You and I talk

02:14:17.820 --> 02:14:24.300
about database programming all the time on the phone, but we rarely did shows about them, at least

02:14:24.300 --> 02:14:28.140
this early. We finally broke down and started doing more of them because people did seem to like

02:14:28.140 --> 02:14:32.780
them and were getting useful information. But this was the first one where we ever actually broke that,

02:14:33.420 --> 02:14:38.700
that line and actually tried to start talking about those type things. Because databases are where it's

02:14:38.700 --> 02:14:44.700
at, man. Oh yeah, I definitely agree. Databases give you a, give you the ability to do a lot of

02:14:44.700 --> 02:14:50.620
things that otherwise are just such a hassle to do. So being able to tie it together and have

02:14:50.620 --> 02:14:54.780
a consistent way to store it and, you know, being able to ship it, you know, back and forth between

02:14:54.780 --> 02:15:00.940
servers with a common protocol. It's just great. ODBC, JDBC. Um, I don't even know how I could write

02:15:00.940 --> 02:15:04.380
pretty much any application without a database. Maybe some people believe, oh, you don't need a

02:15:04.380 --> 02:15:08.940
database. You can just store your data in a text file. But, you know, if I do, you don't have a

02:15:08.940 --> 02:15:14.300
database, you're pretty much screwed. Yeah, that always amazes me. Even still to this day, people

02:15:14.300 --> 02:15:20.460
will use text files or a CSV file or something as their database. Which I guess if it's very

02:15:20.460 --> 02:15:25.740
simplistic, I mean, that's basically like reading a .com file for your configuration. Eh, it's fine,

02:15:25.740 --> 02:15:29.980
it's just configuration. You're just pulling something into memory one time, no problem. But

02:15:29.980 --> 02:15:35.260
actually storing and reading and writing data to a text file or a CSV file or something like that,

02:15:35.260 --> 02:15:39.260
come on. Oh, yeah. Well, if you're writing, I mean, it's ridiculous. If you've got a live

02:15:39.260 --> 02:15:43.740
application used by more than one person and you're trying to write to a CSV, you know, all the

02:15:43.740 --> 02:15:47.500
file locking and stuff like that, that just gets in the way. But if you have something that doesn't

02:15:47.500 --> 02:15:53.340
really have any relationships, maybe CSV's okay. But let's take, for example, your website, Bell's

02:15:53.340 --> 02:16:00.940
Mine. Could you imagine? Okay, it's really my website, but whatever. I just perpetuate that a little

02:16:00.940 --> 02:16:05.980
longer. But could you imagine, I mean, there's a lot, there's not that many tables in the database,

02:16:05.980 --> 02:16:10.940
but there's so many rows that are interrelated and there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes,

02:16:10.940 --> 02:16:15.180
just pulling back one result. And it happens really fast, but if I had to do that with text files,

02:16:15.820 --> 02:16:21.020
the site would absolutely never work. Yeah, when you, especially the larger volume of data you have,

02:16:21.020 --> 02:16:25.660
man, you've got to have indexes and you've got to have efficient ways to read and write that data or

02:16:25.660 --> 02:16:30.780
it's going to bring your system to its knees. And, well, go back and listen to that episode

02:16:30.780 --> 02:16:34.700
and you'll learn all about that kind of stuff. And any of the other database episodes we kind

02:16:34.700 --> 02:16:40.380
of built on from there, we did some comparisons of Postgres to your favorite MySQL.

02:16:41.660 --> 02:16:42.620
Oh, yeah, the ultimate.

02:16:42.620 --> 02:16:44.060
Mm-hmm. You know what?

02:16:44.060 --> 02:16:50.540
Speaking of MySQL, did you hear that Google has pledged to give a lot of programming time

02:16:50.540 --> 02:16:52.860
and code to MySQL? I think that's crazy.

02:16:52.860 --> 02:16:58.460
Yeah, yeah. At least admit this, though. Even MySQL is better than writing to a text file

02:16:58.460 --> 02:17:01.740
or a CSV file or something like that. At least it's better. It's something.

02:17:01.740 --> 02:17:06.700
You know, I would normally say yes, but I'm pretty sure that MySQL does just use

02:17:06.700 --> 02:17:07.980
CSV and text files.

02:17:07.980 --> 02:17:16.060
Oh, that was wrong. I'm glad we don't have another episode to get hate mail back for that.

02:17:16.060 --> 02:17:22.060
No, well, let me just, you know, let me just state again very quickly. My problem with MySQL is that

02:17:22.060 --> 02:17:25.980
I tried to build a big database back in the day with it, and it just, you know,

02:17:25.980 --> 02:17:32.220
it was read and write, lots and lots of rows. It just didn't work. And, you know,

02:17:32.220 --> 02:17:35.020
there were a lot of things that were really clunky about it. It was missing a lot of features that

02:17:35.020 --> 02:17:40.140
I've, you know, grown dependent on. As I've learned more about databases, not using them as a crush,

02:17:40.140 --> 02:17:43.580
they're not silly features. They're important things like views and still procedures. Now,

02:17:43.580 --> 02:17:49.740
yes, MySQL supports all that now, but I just prefer Postgres as a little more mature. You know,

02:17:49.740 --> 02:17:55.340
they take the database design a little more seriously, I think, and more standards compliant.

02:17:55.900 --> 02:18:00.380
Postgres is missing things that MySQL has, like Postgres doesn't have simple replication and stuff

02:18:00.380 --> 02:18:05.340
like that. But, you know, you take the good with the bad, and right now Postgres fits my needs.

02:18:05.340 --> 02:18:09.580
That's why I like it. And like I said, I would never hate the MySQL people. I just,

02:18:09.580 --> 02:18:15.100
I think that their database is purposed differently than mine. So, that's where I stand on it.

02:18:16.700 --> 02:18:23.260
Oh, let's see. 57, 58. Another first time co-host, Desius. He does his first episode. Another

02:18:23.260 --> 02:18:30.460
guy from the ATL, Atlanta, who again, same circles that we ran in with Acidus Desius. We're good

02:18:30.460 --> 02:18:35.900
friends. And, oh my gosh, a lot of great people from the southeast region that I met and always meet

02:18:35.900 --> 02:18:40.940
up at, we met at Freak Nick. And again, running to Desius at just about every conference every

02:18:40.940 --> 02:18:46.940
year. So, we always say hi to him too. So, this is another good episode. And, you know,

02:18:47.580 --> 02:18:51.980
Desius might be a little surprised to hear this, or I don't know, embarrassed or whatever. But

02:18:52.860 --> 02:18:57.980
when I met him the first time, Desius is a big guy. Desius is tall. He's kind of,

02:18:57.980 --> 02:19:03.180
what's the word, big bone. He's just a big, intimidating kind of guy. Physically,

02:19:03.900 --> 02:19:08.860
when I first met him, I was like, damn dude, don't kill me and eat me or anything. You know,

02:19:08.860 --> 02:19:13.820
it's like, he's a big dude when you meet him in real life. But he's just a really nice guy and

02:19:13.820 --> 02:19:18.620
brilliant. He's got this wild hairdo going on. He's got, you know, this long hair. And

02:19:18.620 --> 02:19:26.620
when I first met him, some of the people in the, let's see, how can I phrase this carefully? I

02:19:26.620 --> 02:19:31.900
guess, fuck it, I'm not going to phrase anything carefully. There are some people in the southeast

02:19:31.900 --> 02:19:40.140
region hacking circles that are the very problem with hacking. These people that are just probably

02:19:40.140 --> 02:19:46.540
my age or around my age that are the old school elitists that think, I've been in the scene X number

02:19:46.540 --> 02:19:50.460
of years. I've been in the scene since you were in diapers, kid. I've been cloning phones since you

02:19:50.460 --> 02:19:57.020
were a baby kind of attitude and feel like they're owed something and they're elite for the simple fact

02:19:57.020 --> 02:20:02.220
of their age and being in the scene so long or whatever and talk down to people and are negative

02:20:02.220 --> 02:20:08.620
and just have that elitist attitude that I hate in the scene. And he is definitely not one of those

02:20:08.620 --> 02:20:15.260
people. So I was really happy to have become friends with Acidus and Desius and Rattle and some of

02:20:15.260 --> 02:20:20.700
those guys because they absolutely are not those people, even though there are some other people

02:20:20.700 --> 02:20:25.980
in that circle of friends who I do completely disagree with their philosophies on hacking. But

02:20:26.780 --> 02:20:31.420
they're not the ones I had on the show. I had the guys on the show that are just really, really good

02:20:31.420 --> 02:20:38.860
people. Oh, here you go. Episode number 59. This is one of your favorites, I think. One of your favorite

02:20:38.860 --> 02:20:46.700
co-hosts anyway. The co-host on episode 59 talks more than anybody I've ever met in my entire life

02:20:46.700 --> 02:20:55.180
on planet Earth. And of course, that's Jason Scott. Jason Scott can talk and talk and talk. Like,

02:20:55.180 --> 02:21:03.260
I talk a lot and I admit that. I can freely just ramble on. But boy, Jason Scott, who I've known for

02:21:03.260 --> 02:21:07.660
several years also from conferences and stuff like that. And he'd done Radio Freak America before

02:21:07.660 --> 02:21:14.300
Binary Revolution Radio. I dragged him over to do one. He will talk and talk. He's got so many

02:21:14.300 --> 02:21:19.100
stories. He's another guy that's been around for quite a while. I won't date him or age him or anything

02:21:19.100 --> 02:21:25.660
like that. But he was also a big supporter of RFA and Binary Revolution Radio. So he was always a cool

02:21:25.660 --> 02:21:32.380
guy and spoke very highly of us. Even though he didn't have the same feelings or appreciation for Freak

02:21:32.380 --> 02:21:38.140
Factor. Yeah, we can get to that. I think episode 93 is where we start talking about that. We can

02:21:38.140 --> 02:21:42.700
discuss that a little bit more. But you know what? I always had respect. Well, I won't say had. I had

02:21:42.700 --> 02:21:47.820
respect for Jason Scott because when I met him the first time, he referred to himself as a librarian.

02:21:49.420 --> 02:21:54.220
He didn't get involved in the scene. He just kind of recorded everything and kind of told the story

02:21:54.220 --> 02:21:58.620
back to people. I thought that was cool. But when it came to Freak Factor, he was no longer a librarian.

02:21:58.620 --> 02:22:02.140
He definitely let people know what he'd think about it. He was on the very first

02:22:02.140 --> 02:22:05.500
show, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, what was the Mensa? What was the comment about Mensa?

02:22:07.260 --> 02:22:13.420
Oh man, I don't even remember. I think he said it's Mensa for retards. Yeah, Freak Factor is Mensa for

02:22:13.420 --> 02:22:22.380
retards. Oh my goodness. I'm not really sure what that even means to this day. I'm trying to decode it.

02:22:22.380 --> 02:22:26.380
Like I know what Mensa is and I know what retards are, but they just don't really jive together.

02:22:26.380 --> 02:22:32.700
So, I don't know. Maybe he was just on the spot. But in any case, he's not a big fan of Freak Factor,

02:22:32.700 --> 02:22:37.660
which is fine. Yeah, we're going to come back to that later. He, like many people, didn't get Freak Factor.

02:22:37.660 --> 02:22:44.940
So, we'll come back to that in a little bit. Let's see. So, let's see. Where were we moved? What were you? 59. So, 60. How about 60?

02:22:46.300 --> 02:22:54.540
Oh, 60 was an episode about Asterisk, which later on through season three became a huge running joke,

02:22:54.540 --> 02:23:01.660
because we talked about Asterisk so freaking often and did so many episodes about it that

02:23:01.660 --> 02:23:06.300
it became a joke. But this was the first episode dedicated to Asterisk before. It might have been

02:23:06.300 --> 02:23:14.540
mentioned, but Strom and Black Ratchet went into a whole lot more detail and a whole lot more examples

02:23:14.540 --> 02:23:19.260
once they took over the show. And Default Radio, I'm sure, always referred to it. I don't know if they

02:23:19.260 --> 02:23:23.500
ever really did any... You would know this. Did they ever cover like technical aspects of going to

02:23:23.500 --> 02:23:27.980
Asterisk in detail and teaching, or were they just talked about how cool it was?

02:23:29.740 --> 02:23:35.340
On Default Radio? No, we talked about different things that Asterisk could be used for.

02:23:36.860 --> 02:23:43.980
Actually, I think I lost my New Phone account. The guy who runs New Phone claims that I dropped some

02:23:43.980 --> 02:23:49.660
kind of information on Default Radio. Well, he referred to it as, quote unquote, your little radio show.

02:23:49.660 --> 02:23:54.300
On how to defrog New Phone. And I still, to this day, I'm not really sure what that was. But that's

02:23:54.300 --> 02:24:01.500
why the original Bell's mind number is no longer 810-223-0003. That was a New Phone number. That's gone.

02:24:01.500 --> 02:24:06.940
So I'm guessing at some point on Default Radio, we did talk about Asterisk, probably in some detail.

02:24:07.420 --> 02:24:14.700
Otherwise, I wouldn't have lost my account. So to answer your question, almost definitely,

02:24:14.700 --> 02:24:19.660
but not 100% sure. Yeah. All right. You never know what people might have interpreted either. So

02:24:19.660 --> 02:24:23.500
who knows? Yeah, that's true. But this was the first time. I asked for clarification,

02:24:23.500 --> 02:24:28.060
and I never received it. So that was the end of the road from it with New Phone. Actually,

02:24:28.060 --> 02:24:32.620
a secret between me and you in the audience, and probably the guy who runs New Phone now,

02:24:32.620 --> 02:24:36.460
if you're listening, I still actually do have a New Phone account, just it doesn't melt away.

02:24:36.460 --> 02:24:43.900
Oh, let's see how long that lasts. I don't use it anymore. I just, I know that it still

02:24:43.900 --> 02:24:47.660
registers, and every once in a while, I can place a call with it. So, whatever.

02:24:48.380 --> 02:24:56.380
Well, anyway, episode 60, which was late 2004, let's see, was it August, end of August 2004,

02:24:58.380 --> 02:25:04.860
was the first time we ever really did a detailed episode on that topic. So, let's see. And then we

02:25:04.860 --> 02:25:13.100
kind of went on a little string, let's see, like 62, 63, what else here, 67. We started getting on some

02:25:13.100 --> 02:25:19.580
real specific topics from the headlines and news and stuff like that. Not the news topics so much as

02:25:19.580 --> 02:25:27.020
the, we're inspired by what they were about and went into the detail and technical aspects of more,

02:25:27.020 --> 02:25:32.060
more of a security angle to them, and not really hacking so much, but security topics,

02:25:32.620 --> 02:25:37.900
but from a hacker perspective. And see, that's, you know, I also have this long-running beef against

02:25:38.540 --> 02:25:42.140
security, not against, but security professionals, so many of them that

02:25:44.060 --> 02:25:49.500
don't understand that hacking and security are two completely different things. I mean, they're

02:25:49.500 --> 02:25:55.820
somewhat related, but no one, you know, I'm a hacker. I am not a security professional. Never have

02:25:55.820 --> 02:25:59.820
been, never claimed to be, don't want to be. I think you guys suck. I think it's a boring job

02:25:59.820 --> 02:26:04.940
doing scans and stuff like that. There's a few fun jobs doing researching and stuff like that,

02:26:04.940 --> 02:26:10.380
stuff like Acidus and, and Decius and, and stuff like that. They, you know, get paid to do research

02:26:10.380 --> 02:26:16.380
and stuff like that and present, and that's awesome. That I might be mildly interested in,

02:26:16.380 --> 02:26:24.300
but, um, these security professionals who, I don't know, their claim to fame is writing a paper,

02:26:24.940 --> 02:26:31.180
one paper, one time or something and, and thinking that they're an uber hacker because of it. I mean,

02:26:31.820 --> 02:26:38.620
no, you studied and analyzed something that other real hackers found and you just went and did

02:26:38.620 --> 02:26:43.820
detailed research on it and typed it up. That doesn't really impress me. You know, find new stuff

02:26:43.820 --> 02:26:49.660
and stuff that's actually useful. I mean, I don't know how you feel about this, but I just am so

02:26:49.660 --> 02:26:55.900
unimpressed by someone who goes in and finds that if you enter in this exact precise string into this

02:26:55.900 --> 02:27:01.740
one version of this one program that's not even available anymore, it can create a buffer overflow

02:27:01.740 --> 02:27:10.220
that causes, you know, who the fuck cares? That is so big deal. Yeah, no, I, I can hear what you're

02:27:10.220 --> 02:27:15.420
saying. And if somebody really is just, just doing that, maybe it's not so impressive. I think the method

02:27:15.420 --> 02:27:21.260
of getting to that level is a lot more impressive than, than the actual, you know, okay, if you send

02:27:21.260 --> 02:27:26.860
the string, you know, hello to or something to an old version of send mail, you just get a root prompt

02:27:26.860 --> 02:27:32.300
or something or whatever. Um, but I don't know. I have to say that even if you've got security

02:27:32.300 --> 02:27:37.340
professionals, um, out there writing papers that are just kind of digested versions of maybe,

02:27:37.340 --> 02:27:41.180
you know, some shell code that's out there and maybe like a very short article by somebody,

02:27:41.180 --> 02:27:45.420
it is kind of nice to have somebody who's got the writing ability who can take all that,

02:27:45.420 --> 02:27:50.220
like I said, digest it and then turn it into something that's a little more palatable than just some

02:27:50.220 --> 02:27:55.420
hacked together. Like OMG. Oh no, this is my leap. Oh day hack. You know, right. It's,

02:27:56.060 --> 02:28:00.300
you know, readable and sensible. I do have some respect for that, but I wouldn't,

02:28:00.300 --> 02:28:04.380
but that makes them a writer wrote one paper and just be, you know, just say, Oh my God,

02:28:04.380 --> 02:28:08.860
it's so amazing. You wrote that, that one paper, you know, the, the novelty of everything fades after

02:28:08.860 --> 02:28:12.860
a while. So if you don't keep doing things, you might've been impressive at one time, but if you're

02:28:12.860 --> 02:28:18.700
not keeping on top of it, it's not really so exciting. Right. A landmark paper. But you know what,

02:28:18.700 --> 02:28:22.780
if somebody can represent that and put it in a better way that explains it, whatever,

02:28:22.780 --> 02:28:28.140
that person is called a writer, not a security professional necessarily. They may do it better

02:28:28.140 --> 02:28:33.100
than someone else with their, Oh my gosh, check out my zero day baby Q hacks. Yeah. I know what you're

02:28:33.100 --> 02:28:38.380
saying there. And I agree with that, but you know, that was just a bad writer. I mean, like, I, I don't

02:28:38.380 --> 02:28:42.380
know, you know, here's a, this is maybe, I don't know if this will make a sense or a good example,

02:28:42.380 --> 02:28:51.900
but I think of a concept like SQL injection is something I love. Hackers found that and figured

02:28:51.900 --> 02:28:56.620
that out and realized what it does and how it works. You know, that's something that a hacker

02:28:56.620 --> 02:29:04.460
discovered, you know, hackers as a community discovered that. Then for, okay. So the concept,

02:29:04.460 --> 02:29:09.340
that's groundbreaking. That's a landmark thing. That is something that's impressive. And, you know,

02:29:09.340 --> 02:29:15.980
shell code that, you know, the original concept, that's right. But later on specific applications

02:29:15.980 --> 02:29:22.300
of SQL injection, they're interesting, but they're not horribly impressive anymore. Like, okay, the

02:29:22.300 --> 02:29:29.100
concept of SQL injection, brilliant. The fact that, you know, one specific SQL injection that works on

02:29:29.100 --> 02:29:37.100
Microsoft SQL server 2000, if you send this syntax, because tier and Zach T SQL or Transact SQL has a

02:29:37.100 --> 02:29:42.300
little thing in it that'll let you do something a little bit different. You know what? That's just

02:29:42.300 --> 02:29:47.500
one application of it. It certainly is still kind of interesting and it's neat to know, but that

02:29:47.500 --> 02:29:51.980
doesn't make you elite hacker. That makes you somebody who piggybacked on the original findings

02:29:53.180 --> 02:29:59.100
and show one application of it. Right. And I, like I said, I wouldn't say that they're the most

02:29:59.100 --> 02:30:03.180
amazing person in the world for that, but I mean, that's, that's how things move on. Like some guy

02:30:03.180 --> 02:30:07.580
inadvertently might discover some other huge thing. Like you might be working on this little

02:30:07.580 --> 02:30:11.580
Transact SQL bug and then come up with a whole new concept. So I don't know that I would kind

02:30:11.580 --> 02:30:16.540
of downplay it completely and then tell people like, Hey, listen, this, this research is, you know,

02:30:16.540 --> 02:30:20.780
completely worthless. I think it's all worthwhile. I just wouldn't put these people on a pedestal.

02:30:20.780 --> 02:30:26.860
Right. You know, if they just wrote, you know, a paper. Well, and that's the problem. I'm not,

02:30:26.860 --> 02:30:30.940
I don't think other people are putting them on pedestals. I think unfortunately I have a bad

02:30:30.940 --> 02:30:38.940
habit of putting themselves on a pedestal. That's the ones that get me. It's fine if you're proud of

02:30:38.940 --> 02:30:43.420
your work, but as soon as you're, you know, telling people, Oh, I'm the greatest security

02:30:43.420 --> 02:30:48.620
professional ever. You know, it's gone too far or referring to your own cool things, you know,

02:30:48.620 --> 02:30:52.620
but we don't all need to brag about it all the time. The work will brag for itself. People will

02:30:52.620 --> 02:30:57.260
be impressed by the work itself. Right. You don't need to do it for, you know, to promote yourself.

02:30:57.260 --> 02:31:00.380
Yeah. You pat yourself on the back too much. You're going to end up breaking a spine.

02:31:01.820 --> 02:31:07.340
Hopefully. But yeah, that just happens a lot. And well, and the other thing that goes along with that

02:31:07.340 --> 02:31:13.180
is, you know, again, I agree with what you said, a people putting themselves on a, on a pedestal

02:31:13.180 --> 02:31:18.380
too high and have it stroking your own ego is one thing that I hate about it. The other bad

02:31:18.380 --> 02:31:22.300
tendency, and I'm not, obviously I'm not saying everybody. I have a lot of friends in security

02:31:22.300 --> 02:31:29.980
professional industry, but another unfortunately all too common thing is they love to put other

02:31:29.980 --> 02:31:36.220
people down, you know, and take other people's stuff that's as good at, if not better than stuff

02:31:36.220 --> 02:31:42.300
that they've written or created and downplay it and try to, and this is the old hacker elitism

02:31:42.300 --> 02:31:48.460
would do the same thing. The old school hackers, you know, try to gain fame by crushing and putting

02:31:48.460 --> 02:31:53.100
someone else down. That doesn't gain you fame. That makes you look like a chump.

02:31:53.900 --> 02:31:58.540
You know, go out there and do something better. Don't degrade and put down something that I've

02:31:58.540 --> 02:32:05.020
done. Put up or shut up. Do something more yourself. And I think that's sadly all too common

02:32:05.020 --> 02:32:09.260
in the security industry as well. Yeah, I don't know why people feel the

02:32:09.260 --> 02:32:13.820
need to do that kind of stuff. It just seems kind of silly to me, but whatever. You know,

02:32:13.820 --> 02:32:17.260
if you don't like something somebody did, guess what? It's the internet. You don't need to look at it.

02:32:17.260 --> 02:32:25.260
Yeah, go. Get the foe. Yeah, exactly. That was pretty much my, it still is to a certain extent,

02:32:25.260 --> 02:32:30.060
one of my philosophies on life. To foo or get the foe. My philosophy is on life.

02:32:30.060 --> 02:32:33.180
And I understand, like, there's already enough fighting in this, in this scene already, which is

02:32:33.180 --> 02:32:36.940
pointless. Why do we need any more? You know, just, you can ignore each other. There's plenty

02:32:36.940 --> 02:32:40.780
of room out there. Just do whatever you want to do. But you don't need to go and, like you said,

02:32:40.780 --> 02:32:45.740
put people down and, you know, go out of your way to be an asshole. Just ignore it. Or just do something

02:32:45.740 --> 02:32:48.780
better and show them off. Go start your own form. Maybe that person will take you up on it

02:32:48.780 --> 02:32:53.500
and then do something better to show you up. Yep. Go start your own form. Get away from mine.

02:32:57.580 --> 02:33:04.860
Anyway, so yeah, we went through some series of security topics. Phishing was a topic that I

02:33:04.860 --> 02:33:08.700
always avoided. I thought that was kind of vague and had been done to death, but I thought we added

02:33:08.700 --> 02:33:13.740
some new spins to that on one of those episodes. El Diablo and I talked about the certified ethical

02:33:13.740 --> 02:33:18.700
hacker that I mentioned I got earlier in the season. So we went through some interesting

02:33:18.700 --> 02:33:25.500
security topics. Episode 69, you gotta love episode 69. We continued the tradition that

02:33:25.500 --> 02:33:31.820
started on RFA with episode 69, which of course was the return of Buck Dangler.

02:33:35.180 --> 02:33:41.100
Buck Dangler co-hosted this episode along with Mr. Pink, partners in crime there. These were

02:33:41.100 --> 02:33:46.940
a couple guys that I had met before back on RFA. They hosted the show and they seemed pretty cool,

02:33:46.940 --> 02:33:52.460
so I let them handle episode 69. I just took that week off and let them go wild with it.

02:33:53.260 --> 02:33:57.180
May have sounded familiar, but I assure you they were absolutely two totally different people than

02:33:57.180 --> 02:34:05.260
you think they were. Actually, the back story here is back on Radio Freak America episode 69,

02:34:06.060 --> 02:34:09.740
totally just because we thought it was funny. Bland I think came up with the idea

02:34:10.780 --> 02:34:13.500
that we should use porn names because it was episode 69.

02:34:15.340 --> 02:34:19.500
And we went and found on the interweb there's all these random name generators and we found a porn

02:34:19.500 --> 02:34:25.420
name generator. And we went through there generating some names and we picked names that we were going

02:34:25.420 --> 02:34:30.300
to use on the show the whole time. And you know, they were all funny. We were already laughing.

02:34:30.300 --> 02:34:36.860
We were already cutting up and everything anyway. So Duel and I introduced ourselves first. I mean,

02:34:36.860 --> 02:34:42.380
the first two hosts that were not Duel and I that were, had, oh fuck it. Duel and I introduced

02:34:42.380 --> 02:34:47.500
ourselves first with our porn names. But then when Bland came along and introduced himself,

02:34:48.220 --> 02:34:52.700
he kind of surprised us because the names that we had generated earlier and were prepared for,

02:34:53.580 --> 02:34:58.140
he must have kept randomly generating numbers because he dropped another name on us

02:34:58.140 --> 02:35:03.180
that we weren't prepared for. And Duel and I just cracked up laughing. It almost ruined the whole show

02:35:03.900 --> 02:35:10.380
when we announced ourselves and then Bland and Quisner said his name was Buster Cheek Spreader.

02:35:10.380 --> 02:35:16.060
And I just, I lost it. I just absolutely was laughing so hard. I had to pull the phone away.

02:35:16.060 --> 02:35:20.460
I think, I don't, I don't think I heard like five minutes of the show because I kept laughing so hard.

02:35:20.460 --> 02:35:25.660
I had to pull the phone away. But that was funny and that was kind of a nice little tradition that we

02:35:25.660 --> 02:35:33.420
expanded over to Binary Revolution Radio. And, um, yeah, I, uh, if that didn't set the stage stage

02:35:33.420 --> 02:35:37.820
for the filth and depravity that became Binary Revolution Radio, I don't know what did.

02:35:38.940 --> 02:35:42.460
Another chase away all of the chicks female listeners, right?

02:35:42.460 --> 02:35:45.420
Oh yeah, that'll definitely do it.

02:35:45.420 --> 02:35:54.940
Oh, let's see. How about episode 71? That was, uh, yeah, that was a pretty much a week off for me.

02:35:55.580 --> 02:36:01.660
Um, I wanted to get a show out and, uh, audio from my whole presentation was an hour long,

02:36:01.660 --> 02:36:08.060
50 minutes long, 55 minutes. So, throw a wrapper around that bad boy and send it off and call it a

02:36:08.060 --> 02:36:13.100
show to kind of took the week off and let it air that and put the intro and outro and that was about

02:36:13.100 --> 02:36:19.100
it. The rest was just the actual, uh, text or audio from Hope number five. So, that was kind of a,

02:36:20.140 --> 02:36:23.420
I don't know, that was kind of a lackluster show, I guess. Well, if you didn't hear it and, you know,

02:36:23.420 --> 02:36:27.180
obviously, if you didn't make it to New York to Hope, you hadn't heard it before. So, it was new

02:36:27.180 --> 02:36:36.540
material. So, I don't know. Uh, let's see. Episode 73 was the debut, debut, debut, debut of Black Ratchet.

02:36:37.420 --> 02:36:42.140
And, uh, obviously, you'll hear a whole lot more from him in coming seasons since he took over episode

02:36:42.140 --> 02:36:47.660
three. But, um, the other thing about this episode that's kind of noticeable was that this coincided

02:36:47.660 --> 02:36:52.060
with the release of my Animal Planet episode, my appearance on Animal Planet, which was

02:36:52.860 --> 02:36:58.300
insanely fun and certainly something new to me that I'd never seen before. Um,

02:36:58.300 --> 02:37:04.620
you saw this, you saw this clip before, right? You know, I saw some of it, but I didn't,

02:37:04.620 --> 02:37:08.380
it was like a, I think it was like a YouTube clip or something. It was really low quality.

02:37:08.380 --> 02:37:14.860
Um, but you got the gist out. Yeah, you got the gist out. It was just the last segment was, um,

02:37:14.860 --> 02:37:20.540
comparing sharks to hackers and picking up Wi-Fi signals. It was definitely nothing deeply hacking

02:37:20.540 --> 02:37:25.660
related, but, um, it was appropriate. It fit the show. It was kind of interesting. I actually learned

02:37:25.660 --> 02:37:31.500
something about sharks by watching it. So that's always a plus, but, um, kind of a funny backstory

02:37:31.500 --> 02:37:37.660
here that I don't think I've ever told before is you may remember that they filmed us basically

02:37:37.660 --> 02:37:41.500
this whole thing. It just started with, with El Diablo, who'd be on the show, been on the show

02:37:41.500 --> 02:37:46.460
with me before. Um, he was contacted actually to do this episode and he asked me to come along

02:37:46.460 --> 02:37:53.340
and do it with him, which was awesome. And we basically went through Miami up in North Miami

02:37:53.340 --> 02:37:58.300
and basically went war driving. That's the super short version. But what a lot of people don't

02:37:58.300 --> 02:38:03.660
know is we went war driving. And if you see it on the video, we're driving around this great big H2

02:38:04.300 --> 02:38:10.460
solid black jet black Hummer. Well, the funny thing is that thing was rented

02:38:11.340 --> 02:38:15.980
and they threw up those magnetic signs on the side of it with the company's logo on it. So they could

02:38:15.980 --> 02:38:21.500
look cool, you know, look all intimidating with this big, um, H2 driving around, you know,

02:38:21.500 --> 02:38:26.860
like they were badass and whatnot, um, with the logo on the side. And it was funny because

02:38:26.860 --> 02:38:30.780
here we are trying to look cool. We got the sunglasses, the whole hacker thing. They wanted

02:38:30.780 --> 02:38:35.500
to play up the whole hacker aspect, which is why they wanted me in there to kind of balance out the,

02:38:35.500 --> 02:38:41.580
uh, the security professionals and stuff from the company. So the funny part of the story is

02:38:42.220 --> 02:38:47.420
as it started to get darker and the day went into night, they started kind of panicking. The taping

02:38:47.420 --> 02:38:51.340
was going longer than they expected. And they were all freaking out because they had to get the

02:38:51.340 --> 02:38:55.660
Hummer back to the rental agencies. They didn't want to get charged for another day of rental.

02:38:55.660 --> 02:38:59.580
That's how hard up they were. They're trying to look all badass with money, but here they are

02:38:59.580 --> 02:39:06.060
worried about one more day's car rental on there. So what does that tell you? I know that's funny.

02:39:06.060 --> 02:39:10.700
And you know what? You know how much every TV show has probably got weird stories like that.

02:39:11.420 --> 02:39:18.620
What you see on TV is so not real. Oh, that was fun. I enjoyed that a lot.

02:39:20.220 --> 02:39:25.340
Oh, let's see. Episode 78 here. We're crawling towards the end of season two. Uh, Alonka debuted

02:39:25.340 --> 02:39:29.020
on the show. One of the absolute nicest people that I've ever met. I don't think you've ever met

02:39:29.020 --> 02:39:33.260
Alonka in real life. Have you in person? No, I don't think so. You, for some reason,

02:39:33.260 --> 02:39:38.460
you always seem to, the cons that you're at or that you miss, she's at and vice versa. So I don't

02:39:38.460 --> 02:39:43.260
think you've ever, I've ever gotten to introduce you to her, but she's just one of the nicest people

02:39:43.260 --> 02:39:48.620
in the scene and the hacking world. And I say that every time she's on the show or every time her name

02:39:48.620 --> 02:39:56.220
comes up, but you know what? There's just so few people in the scene that are genuinely nice,

02:39:56.940 --> 02:40:04.300
good people like that, that succeed at life. So many people fail at life, you know, but she's one

02:40:04.300 --> 02:40:09.420
of those people that's genuinely good people and you have to show some love and show some respect

02:40:09.420 --> 02:40:14.460
and appreciation and treat people well that are like that because, man, we need more people like

02:40:14.460 --> 02:40:20.620
that in the world that actually have respect and friendships with people. And she and I both travel

02:40:20.620 --> 02:40:25.980
for work part of our jobs and going to conferences and stuff like that as well. We always get together

02:40:25.980 --> 02:40:31.740
and meet up at different places here and there. I actually travel without dropping docs to her

02:40:31.740 --> 02:40:38.220
hometown or where she lives on occasion and we try to get together there. So, yeah, she's,

02:40:38.220 --> 02:40:43.100
she's a great person. I always love having her on the show. And then right after that,

02:40:43.100 --> 02:40:50.460
that, that was episode 78. And right after that, we did episode 79, which was, you know,

02:40:50.460 --> 02:40:55.100
we followed up the episode with Alonka, which was on cryptography with another cryptography episode

02:40:55.820 --> 02:41:02.700
back with Desias again. And these two back-to-back shows may have been the best shows that we ever

02:41:02.700 --> 02:41:08.540
did, honestly. Back-to-back shows on, on encryption and cryptography and stuff, because Alonka on the

02:41:08.540 --> 02:41:14.300
the first episode did this great overview of cryptography and kind of brought it to the masses,

02:41:14.300 --> 02:41:18.860
explained the general concepts, let everybody realize that they could understand it. It's not,

02:41:19.500 --> 02:41:23.580
the word cryptography, I don't know, for some people it's intimidating because it sounds

02:41:24.300 --> 02:41:29.820
like high math and detailed stuff and confusing complicated things and algorithms, and it's

02:41:29.820 --> 02:41:35.100
intimidating. And Alonka is really good at kind of bringing it down to earth and let everybody know

02:41:35.100 --> 02:41:39.980
that their cryptography has so many different forms and so many aspects to it and explain what

02:41:39.980 --> 02:41:45.180
it is in general. And then on the next episode, I get Desias on to come in and show some applied

02:41:45.180 --> 02:41:51.820
cryptography in detail. And I think the first episode was so good at setting that up. And then the second

02:41:51.820 --> 02:41:57.500
episode was just perfect to come in and pick up where it left off and go into detail about how it relates

02:41:57.500 --> 02:42:03.020
to computers, talk about algorithms, the math behind it, what they're all about, when you can apply it,

02:42:03.020 --> 02:42:09.580
how it gets applied on the electronics level, on the computer, on the level of the code. And it's just,

02:42:09.580 --> 02:42:13.660
I learned a tremendous amount doing these couple of episodes. So those two back-to-back, I thought,

02:42:13.660 --> 02:42:19.900
were just really probably the best back-to-back episodes we've ever done. And Desias was actually

02:42:19.900 --> 02:42:23.900
involved in pretty much all of my favorite episodes. Every time he was on the show, I thought he was

02:42:23.900 --> 02:42:28.460
fantastic.

02:42:28.460 --> 02:42:30.460
Um, let's see.

02:42:30.460 --> 02:42:32.460
What else here? How about, um...

02:42:32.460 --> 02:42:37.900
Episode 81 was kind of an annoying show for me, actually.

02:42:37.900 --> 02:42:43.900
81 was a special show, and I don't know if you even ever heard this one, to be honest.

02:42:43.900 --> 02:42:51.900
81 was a special show that we recorded for Nauticon. And Jason Scott was involved in putting on streaming audio

02:42:51.900 --> 02:42:56.460
throughout the entire convention for the weekend, and he'd ask us, and a couple other shows,

02:42:57.100 --> 02:43:03.900
if we would record a special show or a special episode for them, exclusively, or to be used at Nauticon.

02:43:04.700 --> 02:43:09.340
So we recorded the show, I went out of my way to put in as much work as I always do recording shows,

02:43:09.340 --> 02:43:14.540
to put together a good show for Nauticon. And then I was really, really disappointed to find out that

02:43:14.540 --> 02:43:20.860
they ended up playing it at like 4am. No one was around to listen to it. They just queued it up and

02:43:20.860 --> 02:43:26.620
let it run overnight. I don't know if any single solitary person listened to that episode. You know,

02:43:26.620 --> 02:43:31.500
I was told that it was going to be airing at like 10 or 11 at night, which is when the talks are finished,

02:43:31.500 --> 02:43:36.780
people would be out and about in the con, wandering around, listening to the, possibly listening to the show.

02:43:37.500 --> 02:43:41.980
And, um, it just didn't happen that way. So I really felt kind of bad about that. And

02:43:43.020 --> 02:43:48.540
uh, decided to go ahead and air it as an episode on the stream for everybody else. So 81 has some

02:43:48.540 --> 02:43:53.500
references in it saying, Hey, everyone at Nauticon and Nauticon attendees or something like that.

02:43:54.060 --> 02:43:57.900
And that's the reasons because it recorded specifically for that. So I ended up streaming

02:43:57.900 --> 02:44:01.580
that for everyone else because it did have some decent content on it was an interesting show.

02:44:01.580 --> 02:44:07.260
So, but, um, you know, the whole experience, the amount of work it takes to do it, I just felt,

02:44:08.220 --> 02:44:11.740
I don't know, I didn't like the way it all played out. And I kind of made that decision. I'm not

02:44:11.740 --> 02:44:16.540
doing any more special episodes like that anymore. It's too much time and it's too much work to put

02:44:16.540 --> 02:44:21.580
it in and then have nobody listen to it. So yeah, that one didn't go as well as I had hoped. Didn't

02:44:21.580 --> 02:44:26.060
go the way that I hoped. Right. Now the, the only thing that really made it special was the fact that,

02:44:26.060 --> 02:44:30.300
that it mentioned Nauticon. Did they, did they give you some type of topic that they thought you should

02:44:30.300 --> 02:44:34.300
discuss? No, they didn't give us any topic. They didn't give us any restrictions or whatever.

02:44:34.300 --> 02:44:40.780
They just wanted us to do something especially for them. So we geared it, um, you know, we kept

02:44:40.780 --> 02:44:45.180
referring to everyone listening at Nauticon. Like, you know, we, we were told that it would be playing

02:44:45.180 --> 02:44:49.180
over the speakers so that it, you know, in the hallways and in the vendor area and stuff like that.

02:44:49.820 --> 02:44:54.540
So, you know, a lot of the stuff was us speaking down saying, Hey, you know, Nauticon,

02:44:54.540 --> 02:44:58.220
you're walking around. Hey, what's going on over in this room? Make sure you go check out that. There might have

02:44:58.220 --> 02:45:02.780
been some references to like, they didn't give us a schedule to announce, okay, at four o'clock,

02:45:02.780 --> 02:45:07.340
this is going to happen in the breakout room number two or like that. But there was some stuff like,

02:45:07.340 --> 02:45:11.660
Hey, make sure you go check out the vendor area and make sure if, uh, Ilanka's talking,

02:45:11.660 --> 02:45:14.540
you go make sure you take her talk in. There was some stuff like that in there.

02:45:16.540 --> 02:45:21.340
So, yeah, so that probably wasn't the best one on the stream, but I wanted someone to hear it. I

02:45:21.340 --> 02:45:26.220
thought it was at least worth putting out there. And I don't know, maybe it was a clunker on the

02:45:26.220 --> 02:45:29.260
actual stream because people weren't at Nauticon. So I don't know.

02:45:30.780 --> 02:45:36.540
And it was shortly after that episode 86 that the Google rants really started to begin for me.

02:45:36.540 --> 02:45:40.540
I mentioned earlier with Gmail coming on is when it started planting the seeds in my head and

02:45:41.180 --> 02:45:46.620
really had me looking into it. Um, 86 was an episode while I was doing my whole research on

02:45:46.620 --> 02:45:51.500
Google AdWords that, um, ended up presenting at Defcon and writing articles about, et cetera, et cetera.

02:45:51.500 --> 02:45:58.620
And, um, probably one of the most well-known topics I presented and maybe that's why still to this

02:45:58.620 --> 02:46:05.180
day people brand me as a big anti-Google guy, Google hater. Um, I don't hate Google. I just

02:46:05.180 --> 02:46:08.700
think you should use it. You should be very careful when you use it and understand what

02:46:08.700 --> 02:46:13.500
you're getting yourself into. I say that about Microsoft. I say that about Yahoo. I say that about

02:46:13.500 --> 02:46:19.340
every big corporation. Be careful how much information you give them. The only reason that maybe I give a

02:46:19.340 --> 02:46:24.300
lot more emphasis to Google is because, well, they're the biggest. So it's not that I have

02:46:24.300 --> 02:46:29.340
a specific hard on for Google. I just say Google has a lot of data on a lot of people.

02:46:30.780 --> 02:46:34.620
Yep. And they've posted record profits this quarter too. I think they had a billion dollar

02:46:34.620 --> 02:46:39.660
profit just this quarter and up from maybe it was a hundred million dollar profit or something

02:46:39.660 --> 02:46:45.340
like that, but it was like up 40% or something ridiculous. It was a huge leap for them. So they're

02:46:45.340 --> 02:46:49.260
definitely, you know, shaking their money maker, making tons of cash.

02:46:49.260 --> 02:46:55.660
Yep. Yep. And of course, following their motto of do no evil the entire time, right? Do you believe that?

02:46:57.180 --> 02:47:03.740
Actually, I read an article recently about the do no evil motto, and it really doesn't mean that

02:47:03.740 --> 02:47:12.700
they will never do evil. That's brilliant. Okay. No, I don't know. I'll explain. I'll explain.

02:47:12.700 --> 02:47:18.460
Please do. You know, evil could be defined differently by a whole, everybody could say,

02:47:18.460 --> 02:47:22.060
oh, this is evil, that's evil, but they may all have different opinions on what exactly is evil.

02:47:22.060 --> 02:47:27.180
Right. Google says do no evil as I understand it from this article that I read. They're basically

02:47:27.180 --> 02:47:32.700
talking about the Google culture where evil is kind of like, I mean, I guess it's like a safe word,

02:47:32.700 --> 02:47:38.140
maybe like, you know, people get involved in these sexual things and they need to have a safe word.

02:47:38.140 --> 02:47:42.940
So if somebody's discussing something at Google, somebody else can just kind of derail the whole

02:47:42.940 --> 02:47:47.900
thing and say, uh, we shouldn't do that because it's evil. And kind of like the project stops until

02:47:47.900 --> 02:47:53.340
they convince the person that what they're doing is not evil. So do no evil just means if you tell

02:47:53.340 --> 02:47:57.500
us that we're doing something evil and you work here, of course, um, we're going to seriously look

02:47:57.500 --> 02:48:01.100
into it and make sure that we're actually not doing something evil. And then we're going to talk

02:48:01.100 --> 02:48:05.980
you out of it. That's, that's the basis of it. All of, you know, whatever you think is evil

02:48:05.980 --> 02:48:09.260
doesn't matter to Google. It's what they think is evil. Well, and you, but you just said,

02:48:09.260 --> 02:48:12.300
then they'll basically talk you out of it or try to convince you otherwise.

02:48:13.260 --> 02:48:16.540
Well, not necessarily talk you out of it. It could be that they change what they're doing,

02:48:16.540 --> 02:48:20.540
uh, in such a way that you no longer think it's evil. But they may say, hey, listen,

02:48:20.540 --> 02:48:24.860
it may sound that way, but let me explain why it's not. That was, that was how the interviewer,

02:48:24.860 --> 02:48:28.460
um, or how the article has presented it. And that's easy, that's easy to say.

02:48:28.460 --> 02:48:33.100
I know I'm not going to change your mind on Google. Well, I'm just, you got to admit that's,

02:48:33.100 --> 02:48:38.700
that's easy to say now after the fact, oh, what we really mean by that is this. Let me clarify that.

02:48:38.860 --> 02:48:43.340
That's easy to say afterwards. Well, no, I mean, it's just because it's their,

02:48:43.980 --> 02:48:48.780
their company motto and you interpret it that way, you know, from the very start,

02:48:48.780 --> 02:48:53.500
that's what it meant to them. Um, you know, everybody else heard, oh yeah, that's their motto.

02:48:53.500 --> 02:48:57.660
Um, but they all kind of said, well, I know what that means. Well, no, really,

02:48:57.660 --> 02:49:02.700
they have their own way of defining what you know evil is. And that's how it's defined,

02:49:02.700 --> 02:49:05.900
whether you like it or not. Some things are universally evil.

02:49:06.700 --> 02:49:11.340
And I guess, you know, you're right. Evil is a subjective word. There's no doubt about that.

02:49:11.340 --> 02:49:14.140
And it's absolutely subjective from one person to another. But,

02:49:15.500 --> 02:49:20.300
you know, and I've always said all along, my opinion, Google has done some evil things.

02:49:20.300 --> 02:49:25.580
I do honestly believe that any more evil things than any other company has done. No,

02:49:26.220 --> 02:49:29.980
like I said, Microsoft does a lot of the same things, tracking stuff, Yahoo,

02:49:29.980 --> 02:49:34.380
all these other ones, they do the same stuff too, but they don't have that slogan.

02:49:35.260 --> 02:49:39.980
So, you know, again, same, you're right. What I define as evil and what you define or other

02:49:39.980 --> 02:49:44.060
people define as evil, you know, everybody has to make them on a case by case basis.

02:49:44.700 --> 02:49:47.100
I just want to bring it to everybody's attention that, you know what,

02:49:47.100 --> 02:49:50.300
just like they probably like, let's use our example. If they,

02:49:50.860 --> 02:49:55.020
an employee brings up and says, Hey, wait a minute, this might be evil. Should we really do this?

02:49:55.420 --> 02:49:59.340
They talk about it and they figure out and try to convince each other or whatever they do.

02:49:59.660 --> 02:50:04.060
No, it's not really evil. And here's why. Well, I'm just playing the, like you said earlier,

02:50:04.060 --> 02:50:08.860
the devil's advocate. I'm playing the other side and saying, well, wait a minute, maybe it is evil.

02:50:08.860 --> 02:50:16.380
And here's why. If you at least, the thing is, if you at least think about it and then decide,

02:50:16.620 --> 02:50:20.860
no, Stank, you're wrong. They're not evil at all. You're just a nut job. Hey, I'm okay with that.

02:50:21.020 --> 02:50:25.500
I just want you to think about it. You know, and that's why I say everybody thinks I'm this big

02:50:25.500 --> 02:50:31.260
anti-Google, hate Google. No one should ever use Google. No, that's not true. I use Google all the time.

02:50:31.820 --> 02:50:36.460
I also use Yahoo. I also use your favorite search engine, Ask Jeeves.

02:50:38.460 --> 02:50:41.580
Hey, I got to tell you that, you know, your favorite person in the world,

02:50:42.140 --> 02:50:46.700
I won't joke about that anymore, but, you know, Kevin Rose and Big, they got some type of deal with Ask.

02:50:46.700 --> 02:50:51.500
They're really pushing Ask hard. And, you know, I tried it out the other day. It's okay.

02:50:51.740 --> 02:50:54.800
Ask has gotten better, but yeah. Yeah, it's okay.

02:50:55.160 --> 02:50:59.340
Yeah, it's gotten better as far as features and stuff like that, but the search results still aren't good,

02:50:59.340 --> 02:51:04.380
I don't think. But yeah, if we had time to do an episode on search engine results again,

02:51:04.380 --> 02:51:06.700
I always like those because that's something else I find interesting.

02:51:09.420 --> 02:51:18.940
Let's see. 90, 91, those were good episodes. Specific hacking topics, web cracking, packet injection,

02:51:19.660 --> 02:51:24.220
topics, again, that were known at the time, but people may not have known the details about them,

02:51:24.220 --> 02:51:31.260
how and why they work, you know. So, we're always careful not to cover known topics

02:51:31.260 --> 02:51:35.420
or gloss over topics, you know, because people already heard that. That becomes boring radio.

02:51:35.420 --> 02:51:38.300
It's like, yeah, I already know about that stank. Tell me something I don't know.

02:51:39.020 --> 02:51:42.300
So, when I put the shows together, I always try to think from that aspect.

02:51:42.300 --> 02:51:45.420
I don't want to lose people. I want people to find it interesting. So,

02:51:45.420 --> 02:51:50.380
most people probably know this, but I bet you they don't know this and try to go that angle with it.

02:51:50.380 --> 02:51:56.220
So, you know, those are topics that people might have known about, but we try to get in a little

02:51:56.220 --> 02:52:00.620
bit more detail and make people more knowledgeable and come out with something they may not have

02:52:00.620 --> 02:52:05.660
thought about before, you know. And that's a theme throughout BinRev. That's one thing we've always

02:52:05.660 --> 02:52:12.860
tried to do is, you know, the whole give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish,

02:52:12.860 --> 02:52:19.340
he eats forever. That's kind of the whole philosophy. You always try to, and we probably even go too far.

02:52:19.340 --> 02:52:23.580
And I know a lot of people in the forums get frustrated sometimes with new users asking

02:52:24.220 --> 02:52:30.620
questions or repeating stuff. You know, it's like, I do believe in teaching people to fish.

02:52:31.660 --> 02:52:39.100
I even go so far as to catch the first few fish for them. Most people do not agree with that in

02:52:39.100 --> 02:52:44.220
the hacking community. And that's one of the things that kind of people may get frustrated at the

02:52:44.220 --> 02:52:52.380
forums. I'm all for spoon feeding people once or twice. Teach them how to hold the spoon. Teach

02:52:52.380 --> 02:52:58.060
them how to fish. Teach them how to lower the pole into the water. Teach them how to take the fish off

02:52:58.060 --> 02:53:03.740
the hook. Sometimes you have to give them that simplistic directions. At some point you have to

02:53:03.740 --> 02:53:09.660
let go. And if it doesn't take, there's nothing you can do about it. But just blindly throwing a

02:53:09.660 --> 02:53:14.220
fishing pole at somebody and some bait and going, here's the link to Google search. Here's the link

02:53:14.220 --> 02:53:19.340
to the software. Figure it out. I like to go a little bit further with that in general. And that's

02:53:19.340 --> 02:53:25.740
something we always try to do on the show. And maybe I'm too easy or light handed with noobs, but

02:53:26.540 --> 02:53:32.780
the nubs, as you would call them. I don't know. What do you think? Am I too easy on it?

02:53:32.780 --> 02:53:37.100
You know, to give these people some type of assistance at first, you know, it's nice to say,

02:53:37.100 --> 02:53:41.660
okay, you know, Google it, you fuck or whatever. But sometimes, you know, you're going to turn

02:53:41.660 --> 02:53:45.900
people off. There's no reason to turn somebody off. Unless it's a super pain in the ass for you to

02:53:45.900 --> 02:53:51.260
kind of explain what they need. And it's a ton of work. You know, why not? Put a couple of minutes and

02:53:51.260 --> 02:53:53.900
help them out. And if they keep doing it, then you got to tell them, listen,

02:53:53.900 --> 02:53:58.140
you guys got to figure it out on their own eventually. But at first, I think it's okay

02:53:58.140 --> 02:54:01.660
to help people out. That's how people get started. That's how you get more people involved.

02:54:01.660 --> 02:54:07.020
And that's how they figure out new stuff. And we want this community to grow. I hear myself

02:54:07.020 --> 02:54:12.060
echoing there a little bit. But we want this community to grow. And we want people to learn

02:54:12.060 --> 02:54:18.060
and to be able to grow, you know, come back to the community later as a productive member.

02:54:18.060 --> 02:54:21.980
And if they were helped when they first entered, they're going to be more likely to help,

02:54:21.980 --> 02:54:25.980
you know, that whole pay it forward concept, I guess, if you want to think of it like that.

02:54:26.940 --> 02:54:32.140
So I know that's a lot of hard and a lot of people kind of disagree with that. They think that

02:54:32.140 --> 02:54:37.100
all hackers should earn everything the hard way. I'm sorry, that's not efficient.

02:54:38.220 --> 02:54:43.020
You know, that's my thing. That's just not efficient. I'm sorry. That's just kind of foolish.

02:54:43.420 --> 02:54:47.900
That's kind of like saying, listen, let me tell you what I'm going to do, kid. You see this behind

02:54:47.900 --> 02:54:53.980
me? This is a library. It has all the answers you need. Just go in there and find the book you want.

02:54:54.780 --> 02:55:00.540
Well, holy shit. That's kind of big, isn't it? That's kind of ginormous. And that's what it feels

02:55:00.540 --> 02:55:06.140
like. And it's a pet peeve of mine to see people say, Google it, you know? Oh, why don't you go try

02:55:06.140 --> 02:55:11.420
searching for it, dumbass? Guess what? You know, that's like pointing to the library or pointing

02:55:11.420 --> 02:55:16.460
to the bookstore. Oh, yeah, go in there. The answer's in there. That's a shit lot of good.

02:55:16.460 --> 02:55:21.900
Thanks a lot. Fuck face. Yeah, right. And the problem is a lot of times where somebody can say,

02:55:21.900 --> 02:55:26.540
hey, listen, you know, I'm interested in mag stroke cards or something like that. Well,

02:55:26.540 --> 02:55:30.620
yeah, you can Google for mag stroke cards. Maybe you can't find the information you want because

02:55:30.620 --> 02:55:34.780
you don't know the terminology yet. And without knowing the terminology, it's hard to Google for stuff.

02:55:34.780 --> 02:55:38.940
When somebody says, hey, listen, you need to look up mag stripe and track one, track two,

02:55:38.940 --> 02:55:42.780
track three, reader and writer. And then from there, you'll find everything you need. You know,

02:55:42.780 --> 02:55:46.860
that's sometimes all you have to do. Just let people know what they're really looking for. Because

02:55:46.860 --> 02:55:51.660
sometimes they have a vague idea that it's not enough to get them where they need to go. Right. Or

02:55:51.660 --> 02:55:59.660
pointing to a specific site that has a lot of that stuff on there, like for that example,

02:55:59.660 --> 02:56:04.540
send them to Acidus' site and Stripes do. And let them, now that they've got a starting point,

02:56:04.540 --> 02:56:08.700
let them work their way backwards. Because they will read on that site and they'll see

02:56:08.700 --> 02:56:13.180
terms that they don't understand. But now they know which terms to Google for. Wait a minute,

02:56:13.180 --> 02:56:17.980
track one. What does that mean, track one? Let me go back and search for that. And work backwards

02:56:17.980 --> 02:56:22.540
to find out that information. Because, all right, let's take, let's take another example. Let's take

02:56:22.540 --> 02:56:28.620
something like, okay, how about somebody wants to learn about packet injection.

02:56:30.140 --> 02:56:36.380
Well, packets is a pretty vague term. Exactly what kind of packet injection are you looking for? What

02:56:36.380 --> 02:56:42.300
exactly are you trying to do? They don't know or understand that yet. And when you phrase it and

02:56:42.300 --> 02:56:46.300
point out to them, well, wait a minute, are you talking about something like air snore, where you can

02:56:46.300 --> 02:56:52.540
inject packets? Or are you talking about sniffing, doing a man in the middle? I mean, what exactly

02:56:52.540 --> 02:56:58.060
are you asking for? Because there's a lot of terms, you know, point them to maybe Wikipedia or something

02:56:58.060 --> 02:57:04.060
to give them the basic overview, and let them come back with a more precise question. You know,

02:57:04.060 --> 02:57:08.380
some stuff is so vague, they don't know what to Google for. If you Google for packet injection,

02:57:09.180 --> 02:57:13.500
who knows what kind of hits you're going to get, or whether that's going to be anything useful to you.

02:57:13.500 --> 02:57:15.980
Why not ask somebody to help you narrow that down?

02:57:19.820 --> 02:57:27.580
Asking questions is never a bad thing. Okay, let me take that back. Almost never a bad thing. If

02:57:27.580 --> 02:57:31.100
you ask the same question over and over again, and you've gotten the answer, but you just ignore

02:57:31.100 --> 02:57:35.980
it or don't want to do the work, then yeah, you need just a foo. But that's not the case that I see

02:57:35.980 --> 02:57:41.820
most of the time. Most people are genuine when they ask their questions. Now, some questions we

02:57:41.820 --> 02:57:46.700
won't answer because of the content or the topic of the question. We're not going to teach you how

02:57:46.700 --> 02:57:52.860
to hack the White House or how to send out spam or, you know, stuff like that. Right. But if you

02:57:52.860 --> 02:57:56.300
ask about that, we'll let you know that that's not what we're going to do. Right. Right.

02:57:56.300 --> 02:58:03.900
But sorry, just to touch upon web cracking and packet injection, because I'm sure that since this show

02:58:04.540 --> 02:58:11.740
aired, the web cracking scene has changed quite a bit. There's a new attack or newish attack against

02:58:11.740 --> 02:58:17.340
web. You used to need like five million packets in order to get the key. Now you need like 40,000.

02:58:17.340 --> 02:58:21.740
So web is super weak now. Oh yeah. We need to keep people up to date on it. I don't know if we've

02:58:21.740 --> 02:58:27.340
touched upon it in any recent episodes, but web cracking can now be done with pretty simple

02:58:27.340 --> 02:58:33.100
hardware and like, I saw a video of it on YouTube, 59 seconds. Oh yeah. Yeah. We've talked about it

02:58:33.100 --> 02:58:40.140
on the show before on recent episodes, fairly recent. Oh, let's see. You know what? Actually,

02:58:40.140 --> 02:58:45.900
this might take us to another big topic as we're almost three hours in and we're not even through two

02:58:45.900 --> 02:58:52.380
seasons of the show. Um, episode 93. Why don't you take a look and see what the topic of that one

02:58:52.380 --> 02:59:00.860
episode is? Ah, it's, uh, it's everybody's favorite show. Well, not really a show. It was never meant

02:59:00.860 --> 02:59:07.580
to be a show. That's the thing. That's the funny part of it. Nobody ever got the fact that Freak

02:59:07.580 --> 02:59:15.580
Factor is not supposed to be anything really. It was a project for us. Yeah, exactly. You know,

02:59:15.580 --> 02:59:21.660
I got, I got interested in, uh, an asterisk a long time ago. Um, and then I decided at some point,

02:59:21.660 --> 02:59:27.100
you know, you and I got talking and we figured, Hey, why don't we set up a show where we can call

02:59:27.100 --> 02:59:31.980
in, not a show stream and we can just bullshit or we can make prank calls or whatever. Well,

02:59:31.980 --> 02:59:36.860
then people could just listen to it and, and have a good time, you know, basically take a conference

02:59:36.860 --> 02:59:43.020
call that everybody was on and just stream it. Well, and that was my thing is like so many people

02:59:43.020 --> 02:59:47.660
didn't know what conferencing was and what it was all about. People heard about it. Oh,

02:59:47.660 --> 02:59:52.940
remember back in the day and this bridge and that bridge and phone trips and yada yada. And I,

02:59:52.940 --> 02:59:59.100
I just said, you know what, even though they're stupid and they're bizarre, sometimes there's nobody

02:59:59.100 --> 03:00:04.300
on the conference. We knew you and I always talked about that. What if there's nobody on? And we both

03:00:04.300 --> 03:00:09.340
said, well, fuck it. There's nobody on. Who cares? We're streaming anyway. It was never intended to

03:00:09.340 --> 03:00:13.980
be a show with content. If there was no content, well, sorry, you're out of luck. It doesn't

03:00:13.980 --> 03:00:19.260
matter. We're going to just stream a live conference. There's a lot of people out there

03:00:19.260 --> 03:00:24.620
just want to hear what goes on, but they're afraid to call in. A lot of dock dropage happened

03:00:24.620 --> 03:00:29.580
on other bridges, SoCal. And well, I'm not going to go into accusations because I don't really know,

03:00:29.580 --> 03:00:34.220
and I'm not going to drop names or anything, but there was always allegations that somebody was

03:00:34.220 --> 03:00:38.460
recording this and somebody was looking up numbers at or logging stuff and looking up

03:00:38.460 --> 03:00:42.780
everything and dropping docs. And, you know, a lot of people were nervous about calling into

03:00:42.780 --> 03:00:48.060
some conferences or some bridges because of that. So we thought, you know, I, I just said,

03:00:48.060 --> 03:00:52.780
why don't we just stream it? We've got DDP hack radio. We can connect to it with a live stream.

03:00:52.780 --> 03:00:58.860
Why not just stream it and let people listen to it to see what goes on? Because it's not as glamorous

03:00:58.860 --> 03:01:06.700
or as, or as it, it's, it's just random, you know, and let people have a taste of it,

03:01:06.700 --> 03:01:12.300
see what they're in for. And I, my thought again was, and my goal for just about all projects is

03:01:12.860 --> 03:01:17.420
launching it to try to get people interested in it again. Maybe if people heard that conferences

03:01:17.420 --> 03:01:23.020
are just random and bizarre and fun and funny and laughing and weirdness and the occasional

03:01:23.660 --> 03:01:28.620
flash of brilliance mixed in, then maybe people would listen and actually decide that yes,

03:01:28.620 --> 03:01:32.860
we are going to join on the conferences. Now that I know what it's about, now that I've heard it.

03:01:37.580 --> 03:01:42.380
Yeah, I think it worked, uh, somewhat for a little while. I saw the activity pick up in the conferences.

03:01:42.940 --> 03:01:49.500
Um, but I don't know, uh, Free Factor just kind of took on a life of its own after that first show.

03:01:49.500 --> 03:01:55.980
I don't know. Uh, I mean, you got the email about it. Um, but I don't know how many people requested

03:01:55.980 --> 03:02:01.900
that, that we keep this thing going, but, uh, it was a lot of people and I don't remember the exact

03:02:01.900 --> 03:02:08.700
numbers, but I, uh, I know that at some point we had like the most listeners that binary or not binary

03:02:08.700 --> 03:02:12.540
evolution, but, uh, DDP hack radio ever had to the point where we needed to increase.

03:02:12.540 --> 03:02:19.260
Yeah. Yeah. And I know exactly it was 50. We had set a maximum cap of 50. We were not on an

03:02:19.260 --> 03:02:25.340
unmetered server at that time. So we did have a cap on the listeners, uh, of 50, um, concurrent

03:02:25.340 --> 03:02:32.060
listeners and we absolutely broke that. I'm sorry. Oh no, I said, I said callers before. I said we had

03:02:32.060 --> 03:02:35.980
a cap on the callers, but no, we had a cap on the listeners to the radio. Right. The stream. There

03:02:35.980 --> 03:02:40.140
could only be 50 concurrent streams at a time. There may have been another cap on the callers. I don't

03:02:40.140 --> 03:02:45.020
know on that end, but, um, we increased that because we absolutely broke down the server.

03:02:45.020 --> 03:02:49.100
People were unable to dial in, uh, or were unable to, excuse me, to connect to the stream. They

03:02:49.100 --> 03:02:53.740
were able to dial in fine, but no more people could listen to the stream and that's where it,

03:02:53.740 --> 03:02:57.180
all right. So this is where it kind of got interesting. What started off as just a project

03:02:57.180 --> 03:03:01.820
for you and I to let's see if we can do this with asterisk and let's see if we can do this with

03:03:01.820 --> 03:03:05.580
our streaming thing and get them to connect together and handshake and let's see if it works,

03:03:05.580 --> 03:03:10.060
see if it will even do it. So it started off just as a project or an exercise for us

03:03:10.060 --> 03:03:16.460
for the fun of it. We never intended to have a website. We never intended to record the show

03:03:16.460 --> 03:03:21.980
to make it available for download. We never had hosts for the show. We never had content,

03:03:21.980 --> 03:03:28.620
no show notes. There was no show. So none of those things were appropriate. It wasn't a show.

03:03:29.660 --> 03:03:33.900
But when we aired it, you know, we gave it a name. If that's the closest thing we got to show us,

03:03:33.900 --> 03:03:39.580
we called it freak factor because we thought that was just funny. So because it was a playoff

03:03:39.580 --> 03:03:45.980
a fear factor. Yeah, exactly. Fear factor is just like some, not free for all, but it's just one of

03:03:45.980 --> 03:03:51.820
those silly reality shows where, you know, people are, people do not horrible things, but people,

03:03:51.820 --> 03:03:54.940
people end up doing things that they don't really want to do. And I feel like sometimes that happens

03:03:54.940 --> 03:03:59.340
on conferences, you know, people just, you know, they, they end up prank calling people and getting

03:03:59.340 --> 03:04:03.260
pranked back and people are toning it out and all kinds of stuff. So I don't know, I figured the name

03:04:03.260 --> 03:04:07.980
kind of, kind of fit for what was a reality, a real reality show. I mean, there's real people

03:04:07.980 --> 03:04:12.780
on this, you know, doing whatever they want. And once we got it working, that's what we realized.

03:04:12.780 --> 03:04:19.580
We realized we created the first internet reality radio show, you know, a show that was actually

03:04:19.580 --> 03:04:27.500
real people on a conference doing whatever they do. So we never thought that anybody would care to

03:04:27.500 --> 03:04:32.700
listen to it or download it or have notes or any of that kind of stuff. So all that stuff was

03:04:32.700 --> 03:04:39.980
afterthought. So that was the weird thing is that people started talking about how Freak Factor was

03:04:39.980 --> 03:04:46.620
the worst show ever and it sucked and it was terrible. Well, it's not supposed to be a show,

03:04:46.620 --> 03:04:53.420
guys. It's not, it was never intended to be that. It was intended to be an experience. You know,

03:04:53.420 --> 03:04:59.180
it was something that was ethereal. It was just absolutely temporary, be in the moment. And when

03:04:59.180 --> 03:05:04.220
it was over with, hey, we'll do it again next week. We set up the streaming. I don't remember

03:05:04.220 --> 03:05:08.140
what day and time it was, but we set up once a week. It was going to stream for two, three,

03:05:08.140 --> 03:05:14.060
four hours. I forget what we ever decided on. Who wants to listen to a four hour show? Oh,

03:05:14.060 --> 03:05:19.020
wait a minute. How far are we into this one? Three hours. Yeah, three and a half hours,

03:05:19.020 --> 03:05:23.500
maybe. I don't know. It's a long time. But seriously, nobody wants to listen to that show

03:05:23.500 --> 03:05:28.700
every week that long. We never thought about it like that. So when we finally did, we said,

03:05:28.700 --> 03:05:34.540
you know what, maybe we should run with this whole reality radio thing. And you and I had some other

03:05:34.540 --> 03:05:40.700
great ideas that we never implemented. Like we said, if we're doing a reality show, doesn't that mean

03:05:40.700 --> 03:05:47.180
we have to do the obligatory vote people off every so often? And we had some, we never got them to work.

03:05:47.180 --> 03:05:52.380
And I don't know if we ever will, but remember the idea of having the conference interrupted and

03:05:52.380 --> 03:05:56.780
everybody vote somebody off 30 minutes until the show was over and only one person was left

03:05:57.980 --> 03:06:05.100
or two people. We, uh, we never ran it on the air. Actually, no, that's not true. We did have voting

03:06:05.100 --> 03:06:10.380
on one show. Uh, I forget which show it was. Um, and the website deliver and I will be back up soon

03:06:10.380 --> 03:06:15.580
with the, if it's not already by the time you hear this, um, with the, uh, with the old shows on it,

03:06:15.580 --> 03:06:21.580
I did have the code do that. It's just that people didn't really get how they were supposed to vote.

03:06:21.580 --> 03:06:26.540
You know, I don't know if the interface was broken or something like that, but whoever got voted off,

03:06:26.540 --> 03:06:32.220
and I think it was only one person ever voted off. Um, but you know, they only had like one vote

03:06:32.220 --> 03:06:37.580
and the script just went into the conference and just kicked them and that's it. So we, we did kind of,

03:06:37.580 --> 03:06:43.100
we did kind of attempt, uh, to do that. And the code was all there. It just never really took off. It had,

03:06:43.100 --> 03:06:47.420
it required too much hand-holding. We didn't have everything automated. Um, some things are

03:06:47.420 --> 03:06:51.660
automated, some things are not. Uh, and that was really the, the downfall of it eventually. Like,

03:06:51.660 --> 03:06:55.740
it was just too much work to get on every week and, and kind of babysit this show.

03:06:55.740 --> 03:07:00.460
Well, and that goes back again to we never planned for any of this to be necessary.

03:07:01.660 --> 03:07:06.140
Yeah, we kind of figured it'd be off the cuff and we'd say, okay, let's do it now. And then we'd do it.

03:07:06.140 --> 03:07:09.980
And then once we were done, we'd just shut it off. But people really didn't think of it that way.

03:07:09.980 --> 03:07:13.500
People thought, okay, it's on at this time. It's going to be on this time every week.

03:07:13.500 --> 03:07:17.820
And it's going to be my chance to get on the stream and, and make a lot of noise and make

03:07:17.820 --> 03:07:22.380
phone calls, do whatever, which I think is really cool. And I really want people to do that. Um,

03:07:24.060 --> 03:07:28.620
I don't know. I get a big kick out of the show. I think it's a show. I keep calling it show,

03:07:28.620 --> 03:07:36.220
but yeah, I mean, it did become a show. I really want to bring it back. And, um, this past week,

03:07:36.220 --> 03:07:40.300
I spent a lot of time in setting the system up. And now we have, believe it or not,

03:07:40.300 --> 03:07:44.140
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let's not, let's not get people's

03:07:44.140 --> 03:07:52.380
hopes up too much here. Let's take, let's take it easy. Let's just, let's just, let's just leave

03:07:52.380 --> 03:07:55.980
it at, we're still working on getting creep factor. It has not completely disappeared.

03:07:55.980 --> 03:08:01.820
And let's just kind of leave it at that for now. Let's just, even though you and I know what's

03:08:01.820 --> 03:08:06.060
going on and stuff, let's wait till we go. But I mean, you kind of let's, you said something just

03:08:06.060 --> 03:08:11.100
a second ago I want to follow up on. It is okay to call it a show because now it is a show. If we

03:08:11.100 --> 03:08:16.860
finally realized that people did want that. So I like, for example, here's another thing that we

03:08:17.740 --> 03:08:23.020
didn't expect to have to account for or deal with. Like I said, in the beginning, we always said,

03:08:23.660 --> 03:08:28.860
we stream the conference. If nobody's on it and it's dead air, so what? We stream dead air for two

03:08:28.860 --> 03:08:33.660
hours or whatever. That's, we never cared. We knew that was part of it. That's part of the reality.

03:08:34.140 --> 03:08:39.020
That's the way it was on the opposite end of the coin. If somebody came in and troned the whole thing

03:08:39.020 --> 03:08:44.460
out, you know, and just played a tone and ruined it for everybody. That's also part of the reality

03:08:44.460 --> 03:08:50.460
that happens on conferences all the time. Some asshole comes in and thinks that that's funny to just tone

03:08:50.460 --> 03:08:54.860
everybody out. And hey, it may actually be sometimes, you know, just to be an ass,

03:08:55.420 --> 03:09:00.780
the randomness on the show. So we also, again, that falls under the, so what? That's the way it

03:09:00.780 --> 03:09:05.260
goes. It's not like we're recording this. It's not like it's a real show. But at some point,

03:09:05.260 --> 03:09:10.540
we had to accept the fact that, yes, people do want this recorded. They do want to hear this later

03:09:10.540 --> 03:09:14.940
on. We do need to work something out. And all of a sudden, something that was not a problem,

03:09:14.940 --> 03:09:22.140
and we never intended to be a problem, toning was a problem. How do we handle that? So as the show

03:09:22.140 --> 03:09:28.220
was evolving, I said on the air, every time I would go on and get the show started, I would always say,

03:09:28.220 --> 03:09:34.700
keep in mind, this is an ongoing experiment. This was always done as an experiment, a project that

03:09:34.700 --> 03:09:39.260
you and I did as an experiment to see if it could be done for the fun of it. We knew it was going to be

03:09:39.260 --> 03:09:44.620
all screwed up. We knew that this thing was fucked up. We were trying to fix it as we went along. But

03:09:44.620 --> 03:09:49.980
that's all part of the reality. You did a lot of work and a lot of effort to making people register

03:09:49.980 --> 03:09:55.420
and trying to come up with a way so we could see who was toning and who was talking. And that takes

03:09:55.420 --> 03:10:00.300
a lot of time. We crossed from something that was a silly little fun project into something that was

03:10:00.300 --> 03:10:07.020
a lot of work. And I don't think a lot of people realize that. No, it was a ton of work and there was a

03:10:07.020 --> 03:10:12.940
ton of coding involved. But it was a good time. I even remember the first show. The first show,

03:10:12.940 --> 03:10:18.300
I was coding up to the very last second. As a matter of fact, the show even lost late.

03:10:18.300 --> 03:10:23.340
I ran the scripts. I had attached to the stream for the first time successfully.

03:10:23.340 --> 03:10:29.020
Yeah. After I kicked it like 30 times. After I had to start and restart and kick and restart and

03:10:29.020 --> 03:10:33.580
reconnect because we could never play. Oh my gosh, that was a mess. That was fun though.

03:10:33.580 --> 03:10:39.500
I mean, when it first connected, and I think somebody has an MP3 of this. Somebody was

03:10:39.500 --> 03:10:45.820
recording the stream that night. When it first connected, it was just you and I in a conference.

03:10:45.820 --> 03:10:50.300
And I heard the thing join the conference. And I just remember saying to you something along

03:10:50.300 --> 03:10:54.060
the lines of, oh shit, it actually connected. Let me drop it and start it for real.

03:10:54.060 --> 03:11:00.220
Yeah, right. And I restarted it and put on the theme music and started the show and introduced it.

03:11:00.220 --> 03:11:04.780
And that's how it all began. That was a crazy night. Yeah. And we didn't even know about

03:11:04.780 --> 03:11:08.540
theme music. We were like, should we even bother? I mean, and the only reason I think we did the

03:11:08.540 --> 03:11:13.580
theme music is because we wanted people to know because people would be listening to the stream

03:11:13.580 --> 03:11:18.460
anyway. And if they suddenly got interrupted with all this random shit, people would be like,

03:11:18.460 --> 03:11:23.180
what the hell is going on? So we put theme music just to let people know that something new was

03:11:23.180 --> 03:11:28.700
coming, something different and it just happened. Right. But you know, and actually, I think it's

03:11:28.700 --> 03:11:33.260
I think it's worth pointing out. I don't know if you know the specifics on this, but I'll throw it

03:11:33.260 --> 03:11:38.940
out there. I don't know how many episodes we actually have recorded or how many are missing

03:11:38.940 --> 03:11:46.380
because we never intended on recording stuff. Now, I know that Nick 84, he just set the stream

03:11:46.380 --> 03:11:52.860
up to record overnight sometimes and it would come in the next day and like chop out the parts.

03:11:52.860 --> 03:11:57.820
And we got a couple of recordings that way. But are we still missing some recordings? Do we have

03:11:57.820 --> 03:12:02.140
the very first couple episodes? Do we miss any in the middle? Do we, what are we missing? Or do you

03:12:02.140 --> 03:12:09.180
even know? You know, I looked back, I was actually moving servers around and doing all kinds of stuff.

03:12:09.180 --> 03:12:14.140
An interesting tidbit that not a lot of people know, you might know this, but I'm pretty sure the

03:12:14.140 --> 03:12:20.540
people outside of this, outside of our circle don't know it. The Free Factor server was actually stolen

03:12:20.540 --> 03:12:26.220
from the colo that it was in. Yeah. So, that machine is, who knows where that machine is? That

03:12:26.220 --> 03:12:32.540
machine is, it's probably a boat anchor by now. No, it's in the mail. It's in the mail and it's on

03:12:32.540 --> 03:12:39.420
its way to you. Yeah. You know, I could slam that, that colo company, but I'm not going to do that right

03:12:39.420 --> 03:12:44.460
now. But in any case, just a funny factoid that, that the server for this thing was actually stolen.

03:12:44.460 --> 03:12:49.340
I did get all of the data off, so I do have all of the recordings that we managed to get

03:12:50.780 --> 03:12:57.260
at the time. So, I believe there were 15 episodes, which is amazing in itself. And I think out of

03:12:57.260 --> 03:13:03.740
that, we're missing maybe two. I think episodes 13 and 14 are lost, and maybe one before that. But I

03:13:03.740 --> 03:13:09.740
don't think so. I think it's just, it's just those two. Did we really get like the very first episode

03:13:09.740 --> 03:13:14.220
where it really was you and I going, oh my god, it works? Do we really have that?

03:13:14.220 --> 03:13:16.860
Yeah, I didn't actually, I didn't have a recording of that. I don't think. You know,

03:13:16.860 --> 03:13:21.660
there's some of the, some of the stuff when I was playing around and testing it before we had put it

03:13:21.660 --> 03:13:26.780
on live, I did record some of that just because I wanted to, you know, make sure that it sounded,

03:13:26.780 --> 03:13:30.940
you know, it sounded okay and all that. So, I don't think that I had a recording of that,

03:13:30.940 --> 03:13:34.860
because I think I turned it off at that time. But somebody did send in an mp3. I think it was Nick,

03:13:34.860 --> 03:13:41.420
sent in an mp3 of the first, possibly second show. But I think by the third show, I had decided that

03:13:41.420 --> 03:13:45.820
I would at least make recordings of it and try to make them available.

03:13:45.820 --> 03:13:52.860
Right. Now, I don't know if we have the first couple or not, but yeah. I guess so. You said you

03:13:52.860 --> 03:14:01.740
hopefully have that webpage up, and that's freakfactor.net. That's P-H-R-E-A-K-P-H-A-C-T-O-R.net.

03:14:01.740 --> 03:14:08.700
Yep. And it's the internet's first reality radio show. As a matter of fact, I think it's still the

03:14:08.700 --> 03:14:13.420
only internet reality radio show. I was going to say that same thing. I don't think anybody's

03:14:13.420 --> 03:14:19.820
ever attempted it again. And you know what? All we can say to that is stay tuned. I don't want to...

03:14:19.820 --> 03:14:26.060
Which is, you know, it kind of, it kind of amazes me that, you know, we did this in 2004,

03:14:26.060 --> 03:14:31.420
I guess it was. And we did 15 episodes. I don't know that it was every week. You know,

03:14:31.420 --> 03:14:37.500
we maybe missed a week here or there. But we did 15 episodes and it's been two and a half,

03:14:37.500 --> 03:14:42.300
maybe three years since then, and still nobody has done the same thing. And it's so much easier

03:14:42.300 --> 03:14:46.860
now to do it. There's so much more infrastructure in Asterisk and so many more libraries to make

03:14:46.860 --> 03:14:51.500
this a lot easier to do, but yet nobody's done it. I can't figure out why. Is it because it's a bad idea?

03:14:51.500 --> 03:14:56.060
Yeah. Well, but, well, see, and that's another funny thing as we kind of get off of this topic

03:14:56.060 --> 03:15:02.060
is the funniest thing is after all of this, we've just explained to everybody, we never intended this

03:15:02.060 --> 03:15:07.020
to be a show, never intended to record it. It's not about content. There are no hosts. There is no

03:15:07.020 --> 03:15:14.300
topic. There is no talking. This is not something that ever was planned to be a show for people.

03:15:14.300 --> 03:15:23.340
And people still talk about how it was the worst show ever. It was horrible. The hosts were terrible.

03:15:23.340 --> 03:15:29.260
All they ever did was call Walmart intercoms. All they ever did was jabber on and tell jokes and

03:15:29.260 --> 03:15:36.140
make prank calls. Guess what? That's the reality of the conference. You have to overcome that hurdle

03:15:36.140 --> 03:15:42.860
in your mind. Stop expecting content. Stop expecting someone to hold your hand and walk you through

03:15:42.860 --> 03:15:48.140
and go, hi, I'm Stank Dog. Today on Freak Factor, we're going to do this, this, and this. No,

03:15:48.460 --> 03:15:54.220
you're going to hear music and then random bullshit. And that's it. If you get that in your head and

03:15:54.220 --> 03:16:02.780
accept it for what it is, Freak Factor is the freaking awesomest, most cool. I love Freak Factor. I

03:16:02.780 --> 03:16:07.420
still think it's great. I thought every episode was phenomenal, even though everybody else said it was

03:16:07.420 --> 03:16:13.420
horrible. It was exactly what we intended it to be, and it was a complete success in my mind.

03:16:13.980 --> 03:16:19.420
That was a great experiment, and I absolutely think we succeeded beyond all expectations,

03:16:20.060 --> 03:16:22.780
even if some of the listeners might not agree or understand.

03:16:22.780 --> 03:16:25.820
I tend to agree.

03:16:25.820 --> 03:16:32.300
Well, listen, stay tuned to FreakFactor.net, as I mentioned earlier, or to BinRev.com in the forums, and

03:16:32.940 --> 03:16:39.020
we have not abandoned that project, and that's all we'll say about it. And actually, you may hear

03:16:39.020 --> 03:16:43.740
news very soon. Now, we always tease about Freak Factor, so I don't want to go any further, but

03:16:43.740 --> 03:16:48.060
just keep your eyes open. I'm sure that you will find out when Freak Factor comes back,

03:16:48.940 --> 03:16:58.940
if it comes back. Oops. I fucked that up, didn't I? All right. Well, anyway, let's see here. Let's

03:16:58.940 --> 03:17:04.860
close up season two here. Episode 96 was a good one, worth mentioning. We had Virgil on the show.

03:17:04.860 --> 03:17:09.900
Virgil does a lot of great projects, and every one of them, boy, he breaks news. I mean,

03:17:09.900 --> 03:17:17.500
this most recent one was the Wikipedia wiki scanner, I think it's called, where it goes through and it

03:17:17.500 --> 03:17:21.980
scans any of the anonymous edits to look up where the IP address comes from, to see which companies

03:17:21.980 --> 03:17:27.420
were editing their own entries. That got a lot of publicity and a lot of stuff. I mean, he was

03:17:27.420 --> 03:17:34.140
involved with the Blackboard case a few years back, along with Acidus. He does so many cool projects,

03:17:34.140 --> 03:17:40.860
and on episode 96, he came on to talk about Google Mining, which is a presentation he made at Interzone

03:17:41.820 --> 03:17:47.580
three or four. I don't remember. We were both at, and I thought that was a cool presentation,

03:17:47.580 --> 03:17:53.900
a cool topic that was a little bit more than Google Mining, or than Google Hacking, excuse me.

03:17:53.900 --> 03:17:59.180
Google Mining uses Google Hacking techniques, but it was really more about data mining,

03:17:59.180 --> 03:18:06.300
that is to say, using Google Hacking techniques to pull out files, data files, like PDFs and stuff like

03:18:06.300 --> 03:18:11.820
that, Excel spreadsheets, things like that, from a company, using some Google Hacking skills,

03:18:11.820 --> 03:18:16.940
some Google Foo to pull this stuff out. Then the more important part of it was not just finding

03:18:16.940 --> 03:18:22.620
this stuff, but then analyzing it, and trying to find patterns, and trying to find names and docs

03:18:22.620 --> 03:18:27.900
and stuff inside of that. That's the part people never really got, I don't think, but I was excited

03:18:27.900 --> 03:18:32.700
about this because this is the kind of project that anybody could do. People are always asking,

03:18:32.700 --> 03:18:36.460
I don't know about you, but people are always asking me, oh, I'm bored. I need a project to

03:18:36.460 --> 03:18:42.220
work on. I want to work on this. What should I work on? This was great to me because it's infinite,

03:18:42.220 --> 03:18:46.460
has infinite possibilities. There are an infinite amount of companies you can decide to Google mine,

03:18:47.020 --> 03:18:50.940
go out there and see what kind of stuff you can find out. I tried to use Bill South as an example,

03:18:50.940 --> 03:18:55.500
and even got people started saying, hey, look at this. Here's a bunch of, here's the format that

03:18:56.380 --> 03:19:00.380
PDF files that they use for tech support, and some of them have passwords. Why don't somebody go out

03:19:00.380 --> 03:19:04.620
there and grab a bunch of them, analyze them, and then put together a list of all the passwords

03:19:04.620 --> 03:19:09.980
they might find in them, or phone numbers, or things like that. It just never really took off,

03:19:09.980 --> 03:19:14.140
and that was another frustration of mine is people always asking, I want a project. I want to work

03:19:14.140 --> 03:19:19.020
on this. I want to help with that, but then when you spend a lot of time to organize a project,

03:19:19.020 --> 03:19:23.980
put it together. I created a whole forum for this, created some specific things, handheld people

03:19:23.980 --> 03:19:29.260
through it, and nobody really participated in it. That was another lesson I learned,

03:19:29.260 --> 03:19:32.700
kind of like the one I said earlier. I just learned to stop doing that. I'm not going to assign

03:19:32.700 --> 03:19:38.060
projects to people anymore, because I spend too much time on that, and then nobody delivers,

03:19:38.060 --> 03:19:44.220
and nobody comes through. So I kind of stopped doing that, because I just have too many other

03:19:44.220 --> 03:19:48.300
things to work on. So that was a little bit disappointing. The Google mining forum is still

03:19:48.300 --> 03:19:54.140
out there on binrev.com, forums.binrev.com. I'd love to see people do it. It's still there,

03:19:54.140 --> 03:19:58.940
because it's still a project that'll last forever, basically. And it doesn't even have

03:19:58.940 --> 03:20:03.420
to be Google mining. It could be Yahoo. It could be any number of other places, but Google

03:20:04.140 --> 03:20:09.180
is the easiest for people, and they're most familiar with it. And they seem to pull in a lot

03:20:09.180 --> 03:20:14.380
of stuff. They search within zip files. I remember that bothered me when I first found out about that.

03:20:14.380 --> 03:20:22.220
I didn't realize they would do that. But anyway. Oh, let's see. What else? Wrap this up here. Episode

03:20:22.220 --> 03:20:29.100
number 100, the final telephonic craptacular. Like I said, every 25 episodes, did one of these. And

03:20:29.100 --> 03:20:34.540
the first couple were easy, because I had recordings already. But by the time I got to the third and then

03:20:34.540 --> 03:20:39.900
the fourth one, boy, they were a little bit more forced, and I didn't like doing them as much. And again,

03:20:39.900 --> 03:20:44.300
they took a lot of time. And I didn't think they were as funny, because now I felt like obligated

03:20:44.300 --> 03:20:50.220
to put it together. And it just wasn't as fun to do anymore. And I don't think the content was as

03:20:50.220 --> 03:20:56.060
good. And again, back to Freak Factor. Freak Factor already had all these phone calls. That's where

03:20:56.060 --> 03:20:59.580
a lot of the stuff was done. We would do it on conferences, on bridges and stuff. And I'd record

03:20:59.580 --> 03:21:05.180
the individual calls. Well, just tune into Freak Factor and listen to them. That's when we did a lot

03:21:05.180 --> 03:21:09.660
of this stuff anyway. So I didn't see the need in doing telephonic craptaculars anymore. So that was the

03:21:09.660 --> 03:21:13.260
last one of those that we ever did. They were actually pretty popular. People always seemed

03:21:13.260 --> 03:21:19.420
to like them. I think the quality went down for each subsequent one, but just couldn't keep doing

03:21:19.420 --> 03:21:28.220
those anymore. What else? I always like Telephonic Craptacular. And I think it's first because it's on

03:21:28.220 --> 03:21:33.180
the phone, and second because it's got a cool name. That's about it. Telephonic Craptacular.

03:21:33.180 --> 03:21:41.900
Let's see. 102 was a good episode because we had Zerl on the show. Zerl, boy, he's just always

03:21:41.900 --> 03:21:47.420
in school. He's got a hectic class schedule. So we finally worked around his schedule to get him

03:21:47.420 --> 03:21:55.420
on an episode. And Zerl is the answer. That's Z-E-A-R-L-E. Zerl.com. That's the answer to the

03:21:55.420 --> 03:21:59.580
most frequently asked question that we've ever had in the history of Binary Revolution Radio.

03:21:59.580 --> 03:22:06.060
Who does your theme song? What is the name of your theme song? Who is that? What's that rap song at

03:22:06.060 --> 03:22:10.960
the beginning? Well, whatever your, all of those questions, the answer is Zerl. And it was really

03:22:10.960 --> 03:22:17.340
great on this episode. In perfect timing, having him on here, we actually got another email that

03:22:17.340 --> 03:22:22.680
very week. I couldn't make that up if I wanted to. It absolutely happened. An email that week asking,

03:22:22.680 --> 03:22:28.980
who does our theme song? And I was able to say, Zerl, why don't you answer this question? You know,

03:22:29.280 --> 03:22:35.740
that was pretty cool. Zerl.com. He did the show, the opening songs. You heard at the beginning of

03:22:35.740 --> 03:22:42.200
this show. Dedication to the Hackers and Crackers. Z-E-A-R-L-E.com. We host this site as well.

03:22:42.300 --> 03:22:48.380
Go download it. Download all of his other music. Lots of good stuff. He did the theme song. The Hack TV

03:22:48.380 --> 03:22:52.900
is the same song. The theme, Don't Hack TV. Underground is another one of Zerl's songs. So

03:22:52.900 --> 03:22:58.440
he gave us the rights to use all of his music exclusively on BinRev's stuff, even though

03:22:58.440 --> 03:23:02.640
they have been used in other places without permission. But Zerl's real cool about letting

03:23:02.640 --> 03:23:06.940
his music out there for free. That's something he believes strongly in. So we've always been

03:23:06.940 --> 03:23:11.800
a supporter of Zerl. So Zerl, thanks for letting us use this song for 200 episodes. This will

03:23:11.800 --> 03:23:19.640
be the last one that we use it for. And I guess that brings us up to 104. You know,

03:23:19.820 --> 03:23:25.360
last episode of Season 2. And in case anybody's ever wondered, you know, we, 52 weeks in a

03:23:25.360 --> 03:23:30.600
year, in those first couple of years, we did a show every single week. Do you realize that,

03:23:30.740 --> 03:23:33.480
not Terry, that we actually made two years of perfect attendance?

03:23:34.760 --> 03:23:40.420
Yeah, well, hey, that's all you. I mean, some of them, but you had, you had a lot more to do

03:23:40.420 --> 03:23:44.920
with it than I do. But that's amazing. Every single week, not missing one, that's pretty

03:23:44.920 --> 03:23:48.100
good. And you're not getting paid for it, too. It was your job, that's one thing. But

03:23:48.100 --> 03:23:52.220
this is just something you do for fun. And you pull it off a few years straight, that's

03:23:52.220 --> 03:23:52.960
pretty good.

03:23:53.220 --> 03:24:02.500
Yeah, that was very, very cool. And 104, or excuse me, 204, or 104, excuse me, being the final

03:24:02.500 --> 03:24:10.400
episode of the show. But now here we are on episode number 200 now. And why is it not

03:24:10.400 --> 03:24:15.320
too, technically, I guess it should be 208, if we really would have been, but we dropped

03:24:15.320 --> 03:24:18.620
a few episodes here towards the end. So we kind of realized that we weren't going to make

03:24:18.620 --> 03:24:26.160
that. So, I don't know, maybe in another 15 minutes, we might be wrapping this one up.

03:24:26.160 --> 03:24:35.040
So, man, we're three hours and 20 minutes into this. This is going to be a six plus hour

03:24:35.040 --> 03:24:39.880
show. Dude, this is going out with a bang. We're going out with a lot of shit.

03:24:41.040 --> 03:24:47.220
Yeah, this is, if anybody can sit through this, I mean, you know, I know people listen to these

03:24:47.220 --> 03:24:51.140
things when they go to work. You know, they may have a couple of things queued up for, you

03:24:51.140 --> 03:24:54.300
know, to sit and listen in their office while they're programming or doing whatever they do.

03:24:54.300 --> 03:24:58.600
But people could really just listen to this one show for the whole day.

03:24:59.120 --> 03:25:03.100
Yeah, it really is. You know, it's okay. Break it up into multiple parts. We realize that

03:25:03.100 --> 03:25:08.340
there's a lot of content here, but I don't, my goal here is I hope that by the time we're

03:25:08.340 --> 03:25:11.780
done with the show, nobody's going to have any questions. We will have solved everything.

03:25:11.900 --> 03:25:17.060
We will have cleared everything up. Controversies, the accusations, the thoughts. Why did we do

03:25:17.060 --> 03:25:20.940
this? Why didn't you do that? What did you mean by this? I never understood this joke

03:25:20.940 --> 03:25:25.620
or that joke and who was this guy? And I want to leave all of these questions answered.

03:25:25.740 --> 03:25:30.140
I don't want any dangling plot lines or anything like that when the show is over with. So hopefully

03:25:30.140 --> 03:25:34.040
we've covered everything. It's all been, I think for the most part, this has all been

03:25:34.040 --> 03:25:37.520
new material that we've never talked about before. Some of it's probably repeated, but

03:25:37.520 --> 03:25:42.900
Yeah, maybe a little bit. But I just want to step back for a second and take back one of the

03:25:42.900 --> 03:25:46.860
things you said about listening to it in parts. You have to listen to the whole thing at one

03:25:46.860 --> 03:25:52.860
shop. There's no excuses. Damn. That's it. Yeah, well, I don't know. Maybe we should

03:25:52.860 --> 03:25:56.560
put, do you think we should put this up in three parts? Three separate files? Nah, fuck

03:25:56.560 --> 03:26:00.060
it. They got to listen to it all at once. Yeah, they got to figure it out themselves.

03:26:00.240 --> 03:26:04.100
No stopping. You are not allowed to pause the show and listen to it later. What if they already

03:26:04.100 --> 03:26:10.660
pause it? Let me tell you, you know, this goes back to my hate of the iPod. But if you put

03:26:10.660 --> 03:26:16.600
this on your iPod and you switch tracks or whatever at some point or pause it and screw

03:26:16.600 --> 03:26:20.580
up somehow and you have to fast forward to the middle of the thing, you're going to be

03:26:20.580 --> 03:26:26.360
there all day. So listen to it at one shot. It doesn't matter if your house is burning down

03:26:26.360 --> 03:26:31.660
or whatever. Just keep listening. Otherwise, you'll waste your whole life trying to get back

03:26:31.660 --> 03:26:39.640
to where you were. Great. So what if they already paused before they got to this warning

03:26:39.640 --> 03:26:45.520
telling them that they can't pause? Is there a punishment? Yeah, we're going to, we're going

03:26:45.520 --> 03:26:50.140
to fine them double what they paid for all the previous episodes. Well, dude, most of them

03:26:50.140 --> 03:26:53.500
probably already paid $200 more than they should have for the iPhone. Isn't that punishment

03:26:53.500 --> 03:27:00.040
enough? Oh my God, yeah. Yeah, it's all right. Booyah. Got to get a little iPod jab in there

03:27:00.040 --> 03:27:10.540
at the end. Fudge. Yeah, so 104 shows consecutively, didn't miss any, didn't fudge any, fake any.

03:27:10.940 --> 03:27:16.320
Later on, in season three and four, there's a couple times where we missed a show and I scrambled

03:27:16.320 --> 03:27:20.680
and did like double headers the next week to catch us up. We missed one week, I would do

03:27:20.680 --> 03:27:25.120
two episodes the next week to catch up. And that happened a few times. And there were

03:27:25.120 --> 03:27:31.180
a couple times in season three and four where we did have a show, but the stream went down

03:27:31.180 --> 03:27:39.280
for some reason. The streaming, the Icecast server dropped offline one time before. So

03:27:39.280 --> 03:27:43.980
we had a show, but it didn't actually stream. I just put it up on the podcast right away.

03:27:44.040 --> 03:27:48.120
I count that as still, we had the show, just because we had a few technical difficulties

03:27:48.120 --> 03:27:52.960
stranding it. But for two years, we clearly, definitely, undoubtedly had a perfect attendance

03:27:52.960 --> 03:27:59.560
record every week. So that was something I was always proud of too. And I think that

03:27:59.560 --> 03:28:03.400
is going to be our stopping point for now. Because we're getting ready to see, we're going

03:28:03.400 --> 03:28:09.100
to go into season three. And you know, with all due respect, you know, I love you and all

03:28:09.100 --> 03:28:13.460
that kind of good stuff. And I appreciate you being on the show. But season three was Black

03:28:13.460 --> 03:28:17.600
Ratchett season. So we got to get him on the show. So not theory. Anything else you want

03:28:17.600 --> 03:28:19.280
to throw in here before we move on to season three?

03:28:20.380 --> 03:28:25.460
No, I think we've said plenty for these people. Three and a half hours of the two of us, I

03:28:25.460 --> 03:28:27.560
think is enough for anybody to stomach.

03:28:27.840 --> 03:28:28.660
Yeah, but we're funny.

03:28:31.260 --> 03:28:33.800
Oh, wait a minute. What about System Shock Store?

03:28:33.800 --> 03:28:38.740
Probably for an hour or so. Not so much for three and a half hours.

03:28:39.160 --> 03:28:42.500
What about System Shock Store? Did we ever find out which one that was from?

03:28:43.120 --> 03:28:49.400
You know, I looked and there's a reference to Sister Shock Store, but it's in an episode

03:28:49.400 --> 03:28:54.980
that I'm not in. I think it was called the DDP Roll-Up or DDP Round-Up or something.

03:28:55.060 --> 03:28:59.520
It was an episode that Black Ratchett, I think, did the strong. So you may have clipped it in

03:28:59.520 --> 03:28:59.740
there.

03:29:00.280 --> 03:29:01.460
I think he might be mailed again.

03:29:01.460 --> 03:29:05.780
I don't think you guys are even going to get a chance to get to that. I wish I could

03:29:05.780 --> 03:29:06.540
find it, but I can.

03:29:06.740 --> 03:29:11.060
Oh, well. Well, along and short, okay, let me solve that little running mystery thing

03:29:11.060 --> 03:29:17.040
too. We got an email from somebody who went by the name System Shocker, who, correct me

03:29:17.040 --> 03:29:21.060
if I'm wrong here, he had a beef with us because I bashed Metallica. Wasn't that it?

03:29:23.340 --> 03:29:29.040
Yeah, I think so. I remember reading, either you or I was reading the email in the Metallica

03:29:29.040 --> 03:29:31.920
voice. Right. How Metallica rules.

03:29:33.200 --> 03:29:36.640
Oh, and then we opened the show with, BinRev, are you ready to rock?

03:29:38.080 --> 03:29:42.280
I'm pretty sure we did. I think we did two episodes with our metal voices, but I think

03:29:42.280 --> 03:29:47.560
we only did one for a little while. Like, maybe the first, like, you know, minute or

03:29:47.560 --> 03:29:53.240
two. And then the other one, we read his whole email in the metal voice.

03:29:53.240 --> 03:29:57.220
That was so fun, though. We actually wanted to do a whole episode, but that's rough on

03:29:57.220 --> 03:29:57.600
the throat.

03:29:59.420 --> 03:30:03.920
Yeah, I don't know how those guys do it. I don't know how, you know, Pantera or any one

03:30:03.920 --> 03:30:06.560
of those bands can do a whole concert or like a whole tour.

03:30:06.560 --> 03:30:07.120
Screaming, right?

03:30:07.260 --> 03:30:09.360
Without farfing up blood at the end of every night.

03:30:09.480 --> 03:30:10.800
Well, maybe they do. Who knows?

03:30:11.660 --> 03:30:18.220
Like, the Mr. Move is the same way. The Mr. Move, his stuff, he's screaming and his raps

03:30:18.220 --> 03:30:21.560
and stuff and a gravelly voice. I don't know how he does it, either, but he's so shit-faced

03:30:21.560 --> 03:30:27.760
drunk. He probably pays for it the next day, but he doesn't mind so much. I got to say,

03:30:27.820 --> 03:30:32.720
by the way, the Mr. Move is elite. I think that has turned me on to his music, and it

03:30:32.720 --> 03:30:33.580
is just awesome.

03:30:33.580 --> 03:30:39.060
And see, I bought his albums. I paid the man. It's good music. I don't mind paying for that

03:30:39.060 --> 03:30:44.660
stuff. I bought Front of Lodge albums. I bought Optimus Rhymes albums. I bought the Mr. Move.

03:30:44.720 --> 03:30:47.780
A lot of the music you've heard of the show, I buy them, man. I support these people because

03:30:47.780 --> 03:30:50.940
that's good music, and that's why we... Oh, that's another thing I have. I'm glad you brought

03:30:50.940 --> 03:30:54.760
them out. I didn't even mention that one of the other BinRev traditions, part of our

03:30:54.760 --> 03:31:00.760
format, was at the end of every episode, I always insisted from day one and stuck with

03:31:00.760 --> 03:31:06.840
it for four years to close the show out with some independent artist, some music from somebody

03:31:06.840 --> 03:31:11.240
that was not known or somebody that was struggling or somebody that was making music online that

03:31:11.240 --> 03:31:14.320
would allow us. You know, I didn't want to get into copyright issues, either. I'm not

03:31:14.320 --> 03:31:17.960
going to close the show with Metallica or somebody that's going to sue us. So there was

03:31:17.960 --> 03:31:21.560
that aspect, but more to the point, I wanted to support artists out there who are making

03:31:21.560 --> 03:31:26.340
good music that need to be heard because they need to be supported. I mean, go out there

03:31:26.340 --> 03:31:30.260
and buy the albums of these guys. Sure, you can download it. No one's naive. We're a bunch

03:31:30.260 --> 03:31:35.540
of hackers. We know how this system works, but damn, I don't mind paying $10 for an album.

03:31:35.780 --> 03:31:40.500
You know, that's fair. My problem is paying $20 for an album with two good songs on it that

03:31:40.500 --> 03:31:45.640
I can't copy to my iPod legally or to my... Not that I have an iPod, God forbid. But to my MP3

03:31:45.640 --> 03:31:50.940
player or my other devices, no, that's all bullshit, you know, but support these internet

03:31:50.940 --> 03:31:53.740
artists that are just trying to get their music heard out there because they're the

03:31:53.740 --> 03:31:58.420
ones that are doing new things, making good music that you haven't heard before. The music

03:31:58.420 --> 03:32:02.640
industry right now, what's out there on the radio is such canned crap these days.

03:32:02.640 --> 03:32:11.140
Yep, all garbage. So, the Mr. Move and, you know, the countless other bands that we've

03:32:11.140 --> 03:32:16.940
had on and Zero, of course, for the theme music every week, they're definitely got to support

03:32:16.940 --> 03:32:20.740
them to get out there and check them out. And check out Song Fight because I think that's,

03:32:20.740 --> 03:32:25.240
like you said, is where Frontalot got started. So, I'm sure there's bound to be other people.

03:32:25.240 --> 03:32:29.680
I mean, if the site's still around, I haven't checked it in a long time, but there's bound

03:32:29.680 --> 03:32:34.000
to be other people on there who are, you know, in the same league as Frontalot.

03:32:34.000 --> 03:32:39.520
Oh, absolutely. All right. Well, thank you, sir, for staying up all this three and a half

03:32:39.520 --> 03:32:44.100
hours to do the show. And we're going to tack on a couple more, two or three hours with

03:32:44.100 --> 03:32:48.460
Ratchet and a couple with Duel and who knows where we're going to go with this. But for now,

03:32:48.520 --> 03:32:53.160
that's going to do it. So, we're going to close up Season 2 and head on in to Season 3

03:32:53.160 --> 03:33:00.700
with Black Ratchet. Now, of course, we can't really do justice and talk about Season 3 without

03:33:00.700 --> 03:33:07.740
having the man who actually took control of the radio show for Season 3, Black Ratchet.

03:33:07.740 --> 03:33:10.780
And he flushed it down the toilet and a couple of turns and...

03:33:10.780 --> 03:33:12.800
Oh, get out of here. You know that's not true.

03:33:13.680 --> 03:33:16.540
I don't know. Have you seen some of the forum posts back in the day?

03:33:16.980 --> 03:33:22.920
Well, yeah, but, you know, listen, there's so many more bad posts about my episodes than

03:33:22.920 --> 03:33:26.320
yours. So, don't worry. There's always going to be the bad with the good. And I thought

03:33:26.320 --> 03:33:26.540
so.

03:33:26.540 --> 03:33:31.640
Well, I'm actually curious. I'm actually curious now if we pro-rate the number of episodes

03:33:31.640 --> 03:33:34.720
versus the number of complaints, who actually sucks more?

03:33:34.880 --> 03:33:39.880
I don't know if we pro-rate... Let's just agree that we both suck. And let's just reminisce

03:33:39.880 --> 03:33:44.000
about how badly we sucked by individually analyzing the suckiness of each episode.

03:33:44.840 --> 03:33:50.360
Oh, man. Each episode? Oh, man. Seriously. I just got over... I just got done with my therapist.

03:33:50.360 --> 03:33:53.760
I thoroughly repressed these memories, and you're going to just turn them all back up.

03:33:53.960 --> 03:33:59.160
Oh, you know, it's hard to... It takes a lot of therapy and a lot of money, and I'm dragging

03:33:59.160 --> 03:34:03.480
you back in for... But look at it like this. This is the last time we'll ever have to do

03:34:03.480 --> 03:34:04.760
it, theoretically.

03:34:04.760 --> 03:34:10.100
I guess. Hold on. I'm running to the bathroom right now to get my butt all and repress it

03:34:10.100 --> 03:34:10.260
all.

03:34:10.260 --> 03:34:18.020
I'm going to repress it all. Oh, yes. Well, there's another patented Season 3 bad pun, bad joke

03:34:18.020 --> 03:34:20.640
from Black Ratchet. I'm full of them, baby.

03:34:20.960 --> 03:34:23.700
And we're not going to go through every episode, but let's pick out some of the highlights.

03:34:23.780 --> 03:34:28.940
We did it with Season 1 and Season 2, so let's continue the trend here with Season 3, which

03:34:28.940 --> 03:34:31.820
started with Episode 105.

03:34:33.420 --> 03:34:38.180
The first one was sort of like, oh, boy, we have a radio show. We have to find things out

03:34:38.180 --> 03:34:38.800
to talk about.

03:34:38.800 --> 03:34:45.720
Well, when you did the show, did you find yourself with the, what in the hell have we

03:34:45.720 --> 03:34:46.460
gotten into?

03:34:47.720 --> 03:34:53.020
Yes, very much so. If you listen to the first couple of episodes, it's pretty much me and

03:34:53.020 --> 03:34:56.940
Strom basically going up to the mic and going, is this thing on?

03:34:57.900 --> 03:35:01.860
Well, there's a little bit of a learning curve, but the thing is, we'd already done some shows

03:35:01.860 --> 03:35:07.480
together, you and I, anyway. So you had a feel for it. You knew the format. And frankly,

03:35:07.480 --> 03:35:11.880
the bottom line is, you know, I was ready to call it quits. Like I said earlier, I was

03:35:11.880 --> 03:35:17.980
Season 2, I had some personal stuff going on, some real life stuff, moving, new job, all

03:35:17.980 --> 03:35:23.000
that kind of stuff. So I was pretty much resigned to ending it, and there really was only a couple

03:35:23.000 --> 03:35:27.400
of people that I would hand it over to, and those people were you and Duel. Now, Duel

03:35:27.400 --> 03:35:28.480
had pulled out...

03:35:28.480 --> 03:35:29.860
Those people who were usually suckered into it?

03:35:30.020 --> 03:35:36.080
Yeah. Yeah, let me rephrase. The people who were foolish enough to give it a shot. And no,

03:35:36.080 --> 03:35:40.920
seriously, I told you this back then. I mean, I would not just turn this over to anybody.

03:35:41.140 --> 03:35:47.200
I didn't want somebody to take over the show and make drastic changes, certainly change it.

03:35:47.280 --> 03:35:51.100
I mean, everybody's going to put their spin on it. But the important thing was having

03:35:51.100 --> 03:35:57.560
the format and properly taking care of the show and, you know, the style of the show,

03:35:57.780 --> 03:36:01.920
the regularity of doing a weekly show, all those things were important to me. And, you know,

03:36:01.920 --> 03:36:06.000
oh, you and Duel were the only people I trusted. Duel was, of course, out of the scene. And,

03:36:06.560 --> 03:36:11.440
you know, you were smart or stupid enough to step up and agree to take over season three.

03:36:12.100 --> 03:36:15.000
Oh, sure. This will be easy. Yeah, right.

03:36:15.260 --> 03:36:18.540
And thus began the season of Asterisk, iPods, and Gen 2.

03:36:19.340 --> 03:36:24.440
Oh, shit. Oh, God. I remember doing that. Dude, we had like a streak of like how many shows?

03:36:24.440 --> 03:36:28.500
Well, I think it was like a streak of like 10 shows where we tried to mention it at least once

03:36:28.500 --> 03:36:31.960
because it started out actually completely by accident. Right.

03:36:32.380 --> 03:36:36.940
And all of a sudden we started people saying, you know, noticing it and people started calling us out on it.

03:36:37.140 --> 03:36:40.160
So we actually, just to piss those people off, we started mentioning it every episode.

03:36:40.580 --> 03:36:45.500
Well, and you know what? It's like I mentioned my sweet iced tea on every episode

03:36:45.500 --> 03:36:49.520
and I sort of ranted on Google on every episode a little bit somewhere here and there.

03:36:49.520 --> 03:36:55.720
And you know what? It's just, it happens. And the thing is, especially, especially with Asterisk,

03:36:55.820 --> 03:36:59.620
that was hot. That was big at the time and everybody was really into it at that time.

03:36:59.660 --> 03:37:04.080
So it's kind of appropriate, you know. iPods always have sucked and always will.

03:37:04.200 --> 03:37:06.060
So you can't really get away from that topic.

03:37:06.720 --> 03:37:09.000
Oh, I just bought a new iPod a couple of months ago.

03:37:09.060 --> 03:37:12.580
Oh, my God. I, see, once again, Foyt.

03:37:12.580 --> 03:37:14.520
Oh, my God. As soon as I can invent Foyt.

03:37:14.520 --> 03:37:14.880
Oh, God.

03:37:15.140 --> 03:37:19.040
If I had Foyt right now, fist over IP, I would punch you through the phone.

03:37:19.960 --> 03:37:20.960
Sister, where I'd be.

03:37:21.200 --> 03:37:22.360
Oh, gosh.

03:37:23.580 --> 03:37:28.320
Anyway, so episode 105 again and then where'd you go from there?

03:37:28.740 --> 03:37:34.140
106 and 107 were interesting because they were what we call, or what I call anyway, the conference shows.

03:37:35.080 --> 03:37:38.480
Yeah, well, 106 was basically, we knew that we were both going to,

03:37:38.640 --> 03:37:42.540
Tom and I knew we were both going to DEVCON, so we decided to do 106 was going to be, you know,

03:37:42.540 --> 03:37:46.660
because a lot of people really don't know, you know, what the hell would do when they're going to cons

03:37:46.660 --> 03:37:50.440
and how everything works, and I mean, the first time I went to DEVCON, I was like,

03:37:50.520 --> 03:37:55.160
God, I have no idea what the hell I'm doing, and, you know, that was, I felt that was actually

03:37:55.160 --> 03:37:58.760
a topic that people wanted, and sure enough, you know, people did respond as well to it,

03:37:58.780 --> 03:38:02.820
and I think we covered a lot of things, and I think at the time, it was like one of the

03:38:02.820 --> 03:38:08.520
few resources around besides, like, the DEVCON fact, I guess you could say, where it was, you know,

03:38:08.580 --> 03:38:15.060
here's how to survive DEVCON, which is, unfortunately, a lot of people don't pay attention to

03:38:15.060 --> 03:38:20.460
when you see these guys wearing all black and sweating like pigs and feeling very, very bad.

03:38:21.140 --> 03:38:25.500
We warned people to wear deodorant and possibly bring nose plugs.

03:38:25.760 --> 03:38:28.160
That was always a good rule of thumb.

03:38:28.160 --> 03:38:34.120
But we did this, you know, this wasn't the first, we did these, like, through season one and two,

03:38:34.200 --> 03:38:38.900
I don't think I mentioned them when I was listing shows from those, but we always did a conference

03:38:38.900 --> 03:38:45.300
follow-up show, or even, I think we did a conference or two preview show, but so many people can't make

03:38:45.300 --> 03:38:49.600
it, you know, and it's like, there's, you don't know what to expect. Some people have little questions

03:38:49.600 --> 03:38:55.660
like, should I bring my laptop or not, and et cetera, et cetera. Other people were more interested

03:38:55.660 --> 03:38:59.720
in hearing reviews of some of the talks and some of the news that came out of there, so

03:38:59.720 --> 03:39:04.100
we tried to cover all of those things, and I think they were always good. That was one

03:39:04.100 --> 03:39:08.620
of those, you could always do a topic, there were a couple topics, but I always said this

03:39:08.620 --> 03:39:12.820
to you, and there were a couple topics that you could always be there. You know, sometimes

03:39:12.820 --> 03:39:16.180
you struggle for content, but there's certain things you can always do. You can always do

03:39:16.180 --> 03:39:20.380
conference review shows, because they are, in fact, interesting. It's not, I don't consider

03:39:20.380 --> 03:39:25.200
that one a cop-out topic. We certainly have had some cop-out topics over the years, but that's

03:39:25.200 --> 03:39:29.960
not one of them. Conference review shows, I think, are always on topic, always good.

03:39:29.960 --> 03:39:36.120
2600 Magazine came out once every three months. You can always do reviews, discussions of articles

03:39:36.120 --> 03:39:40.120
or content of that, a review of that. I think that's always on topic stuff, so those are a

03:39:40.120 --> 03:39:44.440
couple of regular things that we could always do. So, as many conferences as there have been

03:39:44.440 --> 03:39:50.380
the last few years, between you, myself, Strom, everybody in the DDP, there's always some

03:39:50.380 --> 03:39:56.140
sort of representation at these cons. So, we could always do and talk about every con,

03:39:56.140 --> 03:40:01.300
just about from somebody, somebody was there. So, we could always do some sort of review.

03:40:01.300 --> 03:40:07.060
Yeah, I'm going to say, thank God we had a cop-out topic. I guess you could still call

03:40:07.060 --> 03:40:14.900
it that. Was it 107? Because, essentially, Red Nerd and I, who were one of the guys that

03:40:14.900 --> 03:40:21.060
went out to Vegas from Boston, we caught the red eye back. I think we left.

03:40:21.060 --> 03:40:25.820
Oh, I hate that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was, like, something I do not want to repeat.

03:40:25.820 --> 03:40:31.340
I'll just, I'll stop an extra day on there, whatever. I think we left at, like, 10 p.m.,

03:40:31.340 --> 03:40:39.620
and we rolled into Boston at 6 a.m. Now, that was, we left, the way it worked out is we left

03:40:39.620 --> 03:40:44.820
Monday night, and I think we came back Tuesday, you know, bright and early Tuesday morning.

03:40:44.820 --> 03:40:50.140
And so, what I had to do is, I had to, you know, we, Strong and I, because Strong was

03:40:50.140 --> 03:40:55.540
in Los Angeles. That's, like, a six-hour drive. That's nothing, compared to a cross-country

03:40:55.540 --> 03:41:02.700
trek. And so, you know, basically, I had to get, I flipped from, like, you know, 6 till

03:41:02.700 --> 03:41:07.380
noon, and I think we got up and, or, I think it was actually later than that, I got up and

03:41:07.380 --> 03:41:12.640
basically had breakfast, and then we had to take the radio show and have it up by, you know,

03:41:12.640 --> 03:41:16.460
up and streaming by the appointed hour of 9.30 Eastern.

03:41:16.900 --> 03:41:22.700
Yeah, and, and I actually was, um, between New York and Vegas, I was, I never, I didn't

03:41:22.700 --> 03:41:26.720
even get home. I think I missed all these episodes until I got back and was, had to catch up on

03:41:26.720 --> 03:41:31.720
them all. Because ZeroDB and I spent the whole week, we took our vacation, head up to New York

03:41:31.720 --> 03:41:36.280
City, head out to Las Vegas, and yeah, that red eye, that's all you can ever get, really,

03:41:36.360 --> 03:41:41.120
coming back from Vegas. Most of the flights back to the East Coast are red eyes, and I always

03:41:41.120 --> 03:41:45.320
hated that. I mean, you can catch an early morning flight, maybe, but that sucks too,

03:41:45.380 --> 03:41:49.060
getting up at the butt crack of dawn to catch a flight back, and your whole day is shot when you

03:41:49.060 --> 03:41:53.580
get there anyway. So, most of the flights coming out of there are red eyes. Everybody going to the

03:41:53.580 --> 03:41:57.280
East Coast is getting a red eye out of Vegas, and that's the worst thing ever, especially for me,

03:41:57.280 --> 03:42:04.780
I can't sleep on the plane. Yeah. So, anyway. It was, it was, it was, it was definitely the,

03:42:04.840 --> 03:42:08.340
sort of the rude awakening of, God damn, we have to do this every week, what the hell's

03:42:08.340 --> 03:42:12.240
wrong with us? Yeah, and you know what, it's always, it always takes a little recovery getting

03:42:12.240 --> 03:42:16.420
back from us too, because most of us are having to go back to work like the next day when we

03:42:16.420 --> 03:42:22.940
get back. Well, Redner, Redner, the freaking idiot, decided to say, oh, I'll work on Tuesday.

03:42:23.560 --> 03:42:30.340
Yeah, I did, I did that one too. Yeah, my, my father picked us up from the airport and dropped

03:42:30.340 --> 03:42:36.960
us off, and his car was stashed at my house, and he basically showered, changed, and then drove off

03:42:36.960 --> 03:42:43.980
to work, and I was like, you freaking idiot. Yeah, well, I did the exact same thing, and came home,

03:42:43.980 --> 03:42:49.600
threw my luggage in the closet, jumped in the shower, I made the mistake of actually laying

03:42:49.600 --> 03:42:54.520
down on the bed, and bam, I was out, and I ended up going into work three or four hours late,

03:42:55.160 --> 03:43:01.100
even still completely exhausted, so, yeah, those, those are rough times, those are rough times. Hey,

03:43:01.460 --> 03:43:05.360
how about episode 108, didn't you tell me you had a funny story for that, behind that one?

03:43:05.720 --> 03:43:09.600
Wasn't there something? Well, it really wasn't a funny hidden story, because if you listen to the

03:43:09.600 --> 03:43:15.900
episode, but, uh, Strom was, uh, driving home from Linux World, I think it was, um, they

03:43:15.900 --> 03:43:18.680
was either Linux World, no, I think it was Linux World, because, that was another thing,

03:43:18.720 --> 03:43:22.900
because after the show, I think by, like, the next day on Wednesday, he drove up to, I

03:43:22.900 --> 03:43:28.500
think, San Francisco, uh, to, uh, meet up with some friends up there, and, for Linux World

03:43:28.500 --> 03:43:33.800
in San Francisco, and then he was coming back for the next episode, so, he was a little, uh,

03:43:33.800 --> 03:43:38.360
international, or, well, interstate jet center there, such he was driving, but anyway, but

03:43:38.360 --> 03:43:42.160
if you listen to that show, I think he, like, pulled over for gas at one point, and, uh,

03:43:42.160 --> 03:43:42.720
Yeah, I remember that.

03:43:43.400 --> 03:43:50.200
Yeah. It was sort of like, uh, it was, it's okay, and I was still not comfortable handling

03:43:50.200 --> 03:43:54.820
the show by myself at that point, but, I mean, because, because getting back to the whole,

03:43:54.940 --> 03:43:58.300
you know, oh, yeah, you've done the show before, it gets a lot different when you're the one,

03:43:58.380 --> 03:44:02.480
you know, behind the steering wheel, doing the show, trying to keep people on topic,

03:44:02.480 --> 03:44:06.020
and talking about things, and making sure you hit all your points, and, it's a lot

03:44:06.020 --> 03:44:09.700
easier to come in, you know, have you driving, like, what, exactly what I'm doing right now

03:44:09.700 --> 03:44:13.420
is, you know, yeah, I just want to rap about a couple of shows, and whatever, and, you

03:44:13.420 --> 03:44:17.500
know, he'll take all the important stuff happening, and make sure he's sitting on top

03:44:17.500 --> 03:44:20.640
of it and everything, but, when you're that person, you're, you're essentially the moderator,

03:44:20.840 --> 03:44:24.400
so, it's like, whoa, okay, so, let's actually have to pay attention to this crap, I get

03:44:24.400 --> 03:44:27.940
to, go off and talk about random crap.

03:44:28.220 --> 03:44:32.160
Well, and, and, you know, some people are better or worse than others about

03:44:32.160 --> 03:44:36.480
going off topic, you know, this, see, I, I don't mind going a little bit off topic

03:44:36.480 --> 03:44:39.880
and drifting, as long as you rein it back in, you've got to rope it back in at some

03:44:39.880 --> 03:44:45.220
point, don't let it turn into an entire, you know, mess, so, that's the thing, is, you

03:44:45.220 --> 03:44:49.280
know, some of my favorite shows, some of the funnest shows are like, you know, Nat is down

03:44:49.280 --> 03:44:54.280
at the, buying a cappuccino, you can hear in the background, the cash registers, and people

03:44:54.280 --> 03:44:59.800
calling out Vente, or whatever the hell they have at this Starbucks and those places, those

03:44:59.800 --> 03:45:04.280
are the funny ones, as long as it's kept to a minimum, and it keeps the show real, and

03:45:04.280 --> 03:45:08.960
the, you know, the reality aspect of the show, we're hackers, doing show where we can fit

03:45:08.960 --> 03:45:09.900
in, you know, and.

03:45:10.180 --> 03:45:14.140
Well, wasn't there one where Dan was in New York and he was trying to call in from a payphone

03:45:14.140 --> 03:45:14.520
or something?

03:45:14.700 --> 03:45:18.980
And the screeching and the sirens and everything, yeah, there was the subway going behind him.

03:45:18.980 --> 03:45:22.100
Oh, that was, yeah, we talked, that, that, that, that, that was one of my favorites,

03:45:22.200 --> 03:45:25.840
too, that was just, I, and I couldn't stop laughing the rest of the episode because of that.

03:45:25.840 --> 03:45:27.780
I thought the man, I thought he was dead.

03:45:28.200 --> 03:45:29.400
That was like a crazy episode.

03:45:29.540 --> 03:45:30.840
I thought the kid was dead.

03:45:31.100 --> 03:45:35.040
All of a sudden, these horrible loud sirens and noises, I thought somebody, I thought a

03:45:35.040 --> 03:45:37.480
car ran into him and hit him while he was talking on the payphone.

03:45:39.420 --> 03:45:40.800
Oh, that was good stuff.

03:45:41.340 --> 03:45:43.260
That would make for an interesting radio, I would give him that.

03:45:43.360 --> 03:45:44.720
Man, Nat is that hardcore.

03:45:45.200 --> 03:45:49.440
Yeah, well, that would be a, definitely be a Bounty Revolution radio first, somebody dying

03:45:49.440 --> 03:45:50.160
on air.

03:45:50.660 --> 03:45:51.800
That would have been, um.

03:45:51.800 --> 03:45:55.480
We could have, we, we seriously, if someone died on air, we could, like, like, become the

03:45:55.480 --> 03:45:56.260
next internet name.

03:45:56.620 --> 03:45:59.200
Yeah, that would probably be a, definitely a best of episode.

03:46:00.800 --> 03:46:02.020
Uh, well, I guess.

03:46:02.040 --> 03:46:03.680
Oh, that guy died while taping a show.

03:46:03.920 --> 03:46:09.740
In, in, in lieu of best of episodes, let's continue with our worst of NREF radio review

03:46:09.740 --> 03:46:10.120
here.

03:46:11.340 --> 03:46:20.160
Um, actually, I guess we can say that, like, episodes 110, 111, 112, a little cluster of them

03:46:20.160 --> 03:46:23.660
there, was where the asterisk dynasty begins.

03:46:24.720 --> 03:46:27.020
I would just call it the dynasty, thank you very much.

03:46:27.340 --> 03:46:28.860
Asterisk, iPod, and Gentoo.

03:46:29.820 --> 03:46:33.680
Yeah, well, we'll be, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, leave us alone.

03:46:33.880 --> 03:46:42.120
Anyway, um, 110 was, 110 and 112, I actually don't remember why I wasn't there for 111.

03:46:42.200 --> 03:46:43.880
That was the first show, I guess I skipped out on.

03:46:43.880 --> 03:46:53.440
Uh, 110 and 112 were, um, basically Charmini's, uh, were for DEF CON 13, DEF CON 13, was it?

03:46:53.480 --> 03:46:53.920
I don't know.

03:46:54.560 --> 03:47:01.520
Whatever the, uh, DEF CON that we were talking about previous in 2005, um, was, we did a presentation,

03:47:01.520 --> 03:47:05.960
and we wanted to record it, but the way DEF CON works is you can't record your own presentation

03:47:05.960 --> 03:47:11.380
because they're crazy about that, so what we just did is we basically just, uh, more or

03:47:11.380 --> 03:47:13.160
less stripped down version of the presentation.

03:47:13.960 --> 03:47:17.700
I think we dropped off, like, a couple of slides, so we really couldn't convert over to radio

03:47:17.700 --> 03:47:24.740
that well, um, on the radio show, and that basically just bought us two episodes to have

03:47:24.740 --> 03:47:29.200
something to talk about, and because we split over two episodes just because the presentation

03:47:29.200 --> 03:47:34.280
was like two hours, so, and, uh, you know, it was, it was, to me, I mean, we did like

03:47:34.280 --> 03:47:38.060
all kinds of stuff on asterisk, and it was actually interesting shit, so it was actually

03:47:38.060 --> 03:47:41.240
well thought out as opposed to, oh, other topics.

03:47:41.840 --> 03:47:46.740
Yeah, you know, that's actually, I don't know if I mentioned that earlier when we talked

03:47:46.740 --> 03:47:51.580
about season one or two, but at some point there, I don't remember where, maybe I did

03:47:51.580 --> 03:47:55.140
mention it, I don't remember, but, um, at some point there, when we first started the

03:47:55.140 --> 03:48:00.600
show, it was supposed to be one hour, and, you know, we had a one hour time limit, and,

03:48:00.680 --> 03:48:05.300
you know, I talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk, and, uh, I don't

03:48:05.300 --> 03:48:07.780
think, quite honestly, we, we ever did an hour show.

03:48:07.880 --> 03:48:12.580
I mean, maybe the first one or two, I don't even remember, to be honest with you, but luckily

03:48:12.580 --> 03:48:17.480
for us, and, and when we first started, we were streaming on Rant Radio, and we had a

03:48:17.480 --> 03:48:22.920
one hour time slot, but we kind of knew that we had a tendency to go over by a couple

03:48:22.920 --> 03:48:30.420
of minutes, so we kind of set up our time slot, instead of us being back-to-back sandwiched

03:48:30.420 --> 03:48:35.100
with a show in front of us and behind us, we gave ourselves a half hour buffer between

03:48:35.100 --> 03:48:38.880
our show and the next show that was on the schedule, so that way if we went over by a

03:48:38.880 --> 03:48:43.720
few minutes, it wasn't a big deal, they would, uh, back then there was only one stream on Rant

03:48:43.720 --> 03:48:47.640
Radio, and they would mix in music for, like, if we went an hour and five minutes, they'd

03:48:47.640 --> 03:48:52.440
put 25 minutes of music, and then the next show would start at its regular time.

03:48:52.980 --> 03:48:57.600
Well, it's one of those things where, once we had the extra half hour, we pretty much

03:48:57.600 --> 03:49:02.240
started using it, so, even though it was originally intended to be a one hour show, we definitely

03:49:02.240 --> 03:49:07.280
became an hour and a half show every time, and we never really had too much trouble filling

03:49:07.280 --> 03:49:08.000
an hour and a half.

03:49:08.060 --> 03:49:12.800
If anything, I ended up putting a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor, I've played some

03:49:12.800 --> 03:49:16.820
outtakes at the end of some episodes in the past, and I've used some of the material for

03:49:16.820 --> 03:49:21.440
the telephonic craptaculars that we used to do, but, um, yeah, we never really had a

03:49:21.440 --> 03:49:23.780
problem filling an hour most.

03:49:23.860 --> 03:49:28.060
There were certainly some exceptions to that, but most of the time, it was more an aspect

03:49:28.060 --> 03:49:29.380
of not getting enough time.

03:49:29.380 --> 03:49:33.960
Probably because we did all these side-rambling stories and stuff like that, but we don't

03:49:33.960 --> 03:49:34.980
have that limitation tonight.

03:49:35.060 --> 03:49:36.340
We can go as long as we damn well please.

03:49:36.480 --> 03:49:36.680
Mm-hmm.

03:49:38.460 --> 03:49:39.220
Creating now.

03:49:39.800 --> 03:49:41.260
What episode were we up to there?

03:49:42.680 --> 03:49:44.260
Uh, that's not a good question.

03:49:44.520 --> 03:49:44.820
1-13?

03:49:44.820 --> 03:49:51.320
I think we were up to, yeah, up to 1-13, and, um, yeah, these are just, uh, ongoing projects

03:49:51.320 --> 03:49:56.600
like, you know, video editing and hack TVE that we were, uh, running a bin rev meeting.

03:49:56.720 --> 03:50:00.400
Yeah, bin rev meetings, I mean, unfortunately I never really got to set one up in Boston.

03:50:00.520 --> 03:50:01.780
I'm always kind of bummed about that.

03:50:02.180 --> 03:50:04.160
Yeah, and there's a big scene in Boston.

03:50:04.160 --> 03:50:09.980
Actually, one of my guys, uh, Quine from my BR-407 moved up there, and, um, there's definitely

03:50:09.980 --> 03:50:14.440
a lot of people up there that probably could start a pretty good meeting, but it's one of those

03:50:14.440 --> 03:50:15.720
things, again, matter of time.

03:50:15.940 --> 03:50:17.680
That's what everything in life is, is time.

03:50:20.400 --> 03:50:21.260
Tell them what it is.

03:50:21.660 --> 03:50:21.940
No.

03:50:23.520 --> 03:50:25.040
Uh, let's see, what else jumped out?

03:50:25.100 --> 03:50:28.160
No, 1-16, 1-16 jumps out at me.

03:50:28.940 --> 03:50:31.980
You know, 1-15 was fine, WordPress we went over.

03:50:31.980 --> 03:50:35.840
A lot of these things, it's not, like, I'm skipping over episodes randomly, but it's only

03:50:35.840 --> 03:50:39.900
because, you know, there's not too much to add on it, there's no story to add on it since

03:50:39.900 --> 03:50:43.980
then, but 1-16, I thought, was kind of an interesting story, because, interestingly,

03:50:44.440 --> 03:50:50.780
intro to Freaking was the name of that one, and, I mean, that was just, I don't know what

03:50:50.780 --> 03:50:55.420
more people could want than to have Black Ratchet, Strong Carlson, and Natus, three of

03:50:55.420 --> 03:51:00.640
the greatest phone freaks that I've known, all giving you an introduction to Freaking.

03:51:00.640 --> 03:51:05.620
I mean, come on, what more, seriously, what more could anybody ask for?

03:51:05.620 --> 03:51:10.120
I mean, seriously, unless, you know, that's, unless you can get Alexander Graham Bell from

03:51:10.120 --> 03:51:14.800
Beyond the Grave or something, I don't know how you could top the host on that show, you

03:51:14.800 --> 03:51:17.300
know, and appropriate to the topic.

03:51:17.300 --> 03:51:24.800
Well, I mean, it was just something that we were, I mean, I was, we were all really into

03:51:24.800 --> 03:51:30.160
it, and, I mean, we just really, I mean, we wanted to talk about stuff that we know,

03:51:30.220 --> 03:51:33.860
I mean, we can just sort of, you know, make it up as we go along, but at the same point,

03:51:34.160 --> 03:51:38.540
you know, that's, I mean, it's going to turn into a sucky episode, unfortunately, and,

03:51:38.680 --> 03:51:40.920
you know, it's an intro to Freaking was something we talked about.

03:51:40.920 --> 03:51:46.580
I think the, like, the original, there was, like, about when we first, when I first came

03:51:46.580 --> 03:51:50.920
up with the show, there was, like, you know, I came up with, like, ten or so topics that

03:51:51.460 --> 03:51:54.480
I really wanted to cover, and this was actually one of them.

03:51:57.540 --> 03:52:02.920
So, this is, I forget the other ones, and actually, I turned this into more or less a

03:52:02.920 --> 03:52:10.120
presentation for Hope No. 6, which, you know, some people probably went to, but it covers

03:52:10.120 --> 03:52:17.080
a lot of the same stuff, and it was, it's a really good topic, and it's, like I said,

03:52:17.100 --> 03:52:19.960
it's something that we knew about, and it's something we could actually wrap about with

03:52:19.960 --> 03:52:26.460
something where we wouldn't sound like absolute morons, as opposed to other times.

03:52:27.620 --> 03:52:30.520
Well, you know, and there's another point in there, too, and it's something I've said

03:52:30.520 --> 03:52:31.540
on the show many times.

03:52:32.480 --> 03:52:37.460
Things that, things may start off, you know, as just an episode of the radio show.

03:52:37.460 --> 03:52:41.240
They may start off as some research you're doing and a little article or a small presentation

03:52:41.240 --> 03:52:44.020
at a BINREV meeting or 2600 meeting.

03:52:44.140 --> 03:52:50.400
It may start off as just a radio show or whatever, but it's either well-received or it's something

03:52:50.400 --> 03:52:54.800
that you think you can build on to make better, and it grows and grows and does become a presentation

03:52:54.800 --> 03:52:57.360
at a conference or something like that.

03:52:57.920 --> 03:53:01.500
So, you know, a lot of the stuff that we talked about in the show has ended up turning

03:53:01.500 --> 03:53:07.320
into or were built around topics that you or I or other people have actually presented

03:53:07.320 --> 03:53:08.000
at conferences.

03:53:08.220 --> 03:53:15.160
I mean, the act of doing research and learning is planning a lot of ideas into our heads and

03:53:15.160 --> 03:53:19.540
hopefully the listeners' heads and giving people ideas and giving us ideas of what to

03:53:19.540 --> 03:53:19.980
talk about.

03:53:20.140 --> 03:53:24.080
So, yeah, of course, just by very nature of sharing it, it's something that's in our head.

03:53:24.080 --> 03:53:26.940
It's something we may follow up on and go further with.

03:53:27.280 --> 03:53:32.600
So, you know, BINREV radio spawned a lot of content, a lot of topics, not only for us,

03:53:32.680 --> 03:53:42.700
but for other people as I went into on my season one recap of certain people borrowing information

03:53:42.700 --> 03:53:46.560
from us under their own name, but we won't go back to that.

03:53:46.560 --> 03:53:51.300
So, as a matter of fact, let's move on to, like, what's another one that jumps out at

03:53:51.300 --> 03:53:51.460
you?

03:53:52.400 --> 03:53:53.740
Oh, okay, I got one.

03:53:53.800 --> 03:53:56.620
How about 119?

03:53:57.060 --> 03:53:58.100
That was a BINREV first.

03:53:59.320 --> 03:54:04.860
Episode of, no, that was our first live episode, and that was something that we really wanted

03:54:04.860 --> 03:54:10.720
to do, and because the way, I mean, you have this, you know, Uber, underground, super deep

03:54:10.720 --> 03:54:13.100
setup with your speakerphone and your microphone.

03:54:13.100 --> 03:54:15.200
Dude, I am so low-tech, old-school low-tech.

03:54:16.560 --> 03:54:21.440
Yeah, which is wonderful when you only have one host that can actually be physically there.

03:54:22.020 --> 03:54:26.660
But, you know, considering that I was in Boston and Strom was in Los Angeles, and we kind of

03:54:26.660 --> 03:54:32.280
had about, oh, 3,000 miles separating us, it was rather difficult to get us both at the

03:54:32.280 --> 03:54:33.500
same point at the same time.

03:54:33.900 --> 03:54:37.940
So, we had to record everything over asterisk, and I think this is actually, I've got to give

03:54:37.940 --> 03:54:42.960
credit for Strom on this, that he wanted to do a live episode with, you know, people actually

03:54:42.960 --> 03:54:45.020
calling in and such.

03:54:46.560 --> 03:54:50.680
So, he actually did a little research, and what Strom and I used to record this on is

03:54:50.680 --> 03:54:55.820
we actually used to both call into a asterisk bridge, and asterisk has a way of recording

03:54:55.820 --> 03:54:59.700
everything that comes over a telephone conversation.

03:55:00.200 --> 03:55:06.040
And what we used to do is we used to, you know, when we record the episode over our telephone,

03:55:06.040 --> 03:55:10.160
and then we'd all edit it, and splice them all together, and do all kinds of technical

03:55:10.160 --> 03:55:11.600
hickory pokelory on it.

03:55:12.280 --> 03:55:16.600
And what would come out was the final episode, which is why, basically, when you listen to

03:55:16.600 --> 03:55:19.660
a season three episode, it sounds like we're all talking on the phone, because that's who

03:55:19.660 --> 03:55:19.980
we are.

03:55:20.500 --> 03:55:20.820
Right.

03:55:21.540 --> 03:55:24.820
Well, and it's certainly more flexible, and gives you a lot more freedom, and a lot more

03:55:24.820 --> 03:55:28.480
functionality to doing the show, like, you guys are taking call-ins as well.

03:55:29.180 --> 03:55:29.440
Mm-hmm.

03:55:29.620 --> 03:55:34.440
And I was actually just listening to this episode a few weeks ago, just because I was, like,

03:55:34.540 --> 03:55:38.980
screening through my new iPod and saying, oh, hey, the first live episode, this ought

03:55:38.980 --> 03:55:39.480
to be fun.

03:55:39.900 --> 03:55:40.880
That's right, iPod.

03:55:40.940 --> 03:55:44.400
All you need to do is mention Gentoo, and this will be complete on the trifecta for this

03:55:44.400 --> 03:55:44.720
episode.

03:55:45.540 --> 03:55:45.940
Oh, crap.

03:55:46.000 --> 03:55:47.160
I don't use Gentoo, so...

03:55:47.160 --> 03:55:48.140
Oh, man.

03:55:48.940 --> 03:55:50.240
We'll have to find a way of working again.

03:55:50.520 --> 03:55:50.660
All right.

03:55:50.800 --> 03:55:55.600
Um, fuck, who was the first call-in?

03:55:55.700 --> 03:55:57.800
And I was actually...

03:55:57.800 --> 03:55:58.320
I think...

03:55:58.320 --> 03:55:59.000
Was it living dead?

03:56:00.000 --> 03:56:01.780
I don't remember, to be honest with you.

03:56:02.240 --> 03:56:02.640
That's...

03:56:02.640 --> 03:56:06.840
In it, and I was actually, when I was listening to this, I was a little like, oh, wow, it's

03:56:06.840 --> 03:56:08.000
so-and-so, and it's actually...

03:56:08.000 --> 03:56:13.780
I was kind of expecting it to be someone, you know, no longer in the scene, but it was

03:56:13.780 --> 03:56:17.960
someone who is still active, and I completely forget who it is.

03:56:17.960 --> 03:56:20.680
And it just makes me sad, and I'll have to...

03:56:20.680 --> 03:56:23.400
I'm going to have to, like, re-listen to that episode now, because I'm driving enough

03:56:23.400 --> 03:56:23.680
tonight.

03:56:23.980 --> 03:56:25.100
Episode 119.

03:56:25.240 --> 03:56:29.280
Anybody can re-listen to it from the archive page at radio.binrev.com.

03:56:29.320 --> 03:56:31.580
You can listen to any of these episodes we've been talking about.

03:56:32.000 --> 03:56:36.100
If any of them strikes your fancy, or, you know, maybe some of the backstories or jokes,

03:56:36.160 --> 03:56:39.760
you might want to go back and listen to it now with that in mind, and realize what might

03:56:39.760 --> 03:56:41.020
have been going on in the background.

03:56:41.640 --> 03:56:42.720
This is like our...

03:56:42.720 --> 03:56:43.700
Oh, crap.

03:56:43.860 --> 03:56:45.300
The director's...

03:56:45.300 --> 03:56:47.300
Yeah, the director commentary, the...

03:56:47.300 --> 03:56:55.360
Actually, the other interesting thing with this is, you know, we thought that, oh, you

03:56:55.360 --> 03:56:59.000
know, we'd just be, you know, Strom and I, Strom would actually go out, and I'd rap on

03:56:59.000 --> 03:57:04.180
and, you know, talk about something before the caller comes in, and I realized that that

03:57:04.180 --> 03:57:09.980
didn't work very quickly, because basically, in order to do the silence, we actually had

03:57:09.980 --> 03:57:12.540
someone sent us in a bunch of stank dog sound clips.

03:57:14.180 --> 03:57:18.220
And that's what I played when it was, like, awkward silence, and I realized very quickly

03:57:18.220 --> 03:57:21.280
that I was doing that far too much, so I was like, we need to get a call screener.

03:57:21.380 --> 03:57:26.020
And thankfully, Dr. Zitten stepped up to the plate and took that over, and he basically

03:57:26.020 --> 03:57:30.580
sat on all the live shows waiting for someone to call in, and sometimes people didn't call

03:57:30.580 --> 03:57:32.860
in, and that was just, like, crazy.

03:57:33.060 --> 03:57:35.680
It was all like, wow, man, you must have no life.

03:57:35.800 --> 03:57:41.060
That was the drawback to doing the live shows, is you couldn't do a live show in lieu of content.

03:57:41.180 --> 03:57:45.700
You still had to come with content and topics and everything to talk about, and then take

03:57:45.700 --> 03:57:48.780
some calls if it added to it, but waiting for people to call in...

03:57:48.780 --> 03:57:49.400
Which is something we never learned.

03:57:49.400 --> 03:57:49.960
Yeah.

03:57:50.400 --> 03:57:52.020
That was definitely a lesson learned.

03:57:52.600 --> 03:57:53.000
Yeah.

03:57:54.960 --> 03:57:59.700
And, you know, actually, weren't there a couple episodes, though?

03:57:59.740 --> 03:58:02.520
This is the only thing about Asterisk that I didn't like, recording with Asterisk.

03:58:02.540 --> 03:58:05.820
It certainly added a whole lot of functionality, and it's definitely a better way of doing it.

03:58:05.840 --> 03:58:07.520
I concede that totally.

03:58:08.300 --> 03:58:14.620
But there was, I know, at least one episode, maybe two or three, where I just, they were

03:58:14.620 --> 03:58:19.020
unlistenable to me, because I got you talking in one of my ears, and Strom talking in the

03:58:19.020 --> 03:58:19.280
other one.

03:58:19.320 --> 03:58:23.840
I'm on my headphones, listening at work, and, like, I remember doing a, I don't know

03:58:23.840 --> 03:58:27.280
if you can do a double take while listening and not looking at something, but I'm sitting

03:58:27.280 --> 03:58:30.420
there coding, and the new episode started, the theme music played, and then all of a

03:58:30.420 --> 03:58:33.020
sudden I hear you talking on one side, and him on the other.

03:58:33.080 --> 03:58:36.060
I'm looking left and right going, what in the holy hell is going on here?

03:58:36.800 --> 03:58:38.200
That's just the voice in your head, man.

03:58:38.260 --> 03:58:39.780
What do you, I mean, don't try to blame us on us.

03:58:39.960 --> 03:58:43.380
Oh, yeah, I guess that was probably all me.

03:58:44.140 --> 03:58:44.460
Yeah.

03:58:44.820 --> 03:58:45.140
Whatever.

03:58:46.200 --> 03:58:47.180
That was Strom.

03:58:47.180 --> 03:58:51.560
He decided to be fancy, and I actually didn't mind it that much, to be honest with you,

03:58:51.640 --> 03:58:54.200
but I think we got enough complaints that that quickly died.

03:58:54.400 --> 03:58:54.840
Oh, really?

03:58:54.900 --> 03:58:57.420
I wouldn't say, not quickly enough, but it did die.

03:58:57.640 --> 03:59:03.300
I mean, there's still a few episodes out there that have that, but it was sort of universally

03:59:03.300 --> 03:59:04.220
tanned, so.

03:59:04.440 --> 03:59:07.760
I don't know if it would have been, maybe it would have been a little bit more tolerable

03:59:07.760 --> 03:59:11.940
if I was listening on real speakers, but inside the headphone it was clearly delineated,

03:59:11.940 --> 03:59:16.680
and there was no blend at all, and it really felt like I was, you ever be in those situations

03:59:16.680 --> 03:59:21.380
where you're out with people, and you're like the third wheel, and they're talking over

03:59:21.380 --> 03:59:25.460
you, one's on your left, one's on your right, and you're in the middle, you're like, hey,

03:59:25.520 --> 03:59:26.140
get away from me.

03:59:26.140 --> 03:59:28.200
No, no, no, I never have that problem, man.

03:59:28.260 --> 03:59:28.940
I don't know about you.

03:59:29.020 --> 03:59:29.700
I don't know what's up with you.

03:59:29.700 --> 03:59:32.340
Well, I think you've got some kind of problems.

03:59:32.480 --> 03:59:32.920
I don't know.

03:59:33.560 --> 03:59:37.540
Not as many problems as Dual Parallel, maybe, you know, taking the time to get back to me,

03:59:37.680 --> 03:59:44.160
but anyway, let's continue on with the show, and maybe Dual will call me back in an hour

03:59:44.160 --> 03:59:47.960
and a half or so, in case you can't tell I'm talking to him on my cell phone with trying

03:59:47.960 --> 03:59:49.560
to be all inconspicuous about it.

03:59:50.560 --> 03:59:51.760
So hopefully he'll call me back.

03:59:52.040 --> 03:59:52.780
No, where the hell are you?

03:59:52.900 --> 03:59:53.900
See, that's the other great thing.

03:59:53.920 --> 03:59:54.580
I hope you're going to call me here.

03:59:54.800 --> 03:59:58.620
That's the other great thing about BinRev Radio is we don't stop for shit.

03:59:58.620 --> 04:00:01.000
You know, we keep right on going with the show.

04:00:01.860 --> 04:00:03.640
So, yeah, hopefully Dual will call me back.

04:00:04.020 --> 04:00:07.320
Actually, the next show that I want to talk about is actually something really related to

04:00:07.320 --> 04:00:09.340
you, is how not to be a moron on the internet.

04:00:09.640 --> 04:00:11.660
Did you just call me a moron on the internet?

04:00:12.420 --> 04:00:13.760
Not that I disagree with that.

04:00:13.760 --> 04:00:16.600
No, no, no, I'm talking about how you have to deal with all these guys.

04:00:16.800 --> 04:00:18.900
Oh, my God, you just don't even know sometimes.

04:00:20.220 --> 04:00:22.600
You know, listen, I'm a bit of a moron myself.

04:00:23.100 --> 04:00:27.780
There's nothing wrong with having a little fun and stuff, but, well, first of all, I think

04:00:27.780 --> 04:00:31.280
that might win the best title for a show all season long.

04:00:31.360 --> 04:00:33.560
That might be the best title for a show, but...

04:00:33.560 --> 04:00:34.840
No, no, no, no.

04:00:36.040 --> 04:00:39.780
You thought it was really funny, but we'll get into my favorite title later.

04:00:39.780 --> 04:00:40.040
Oh, great.

04:00:40.360 --> 04:00:42.540
This actually was one of your titles, so...

04:00:42.540 --> 04:00:42.860
Was it?

04:00:42.900 --> 04:00:44.060
Okay, we'll see coming up.

04:00:44.300 --> 04:00:45.500
That one was one of the most...

04:00:45.500 --> 04:00:47.120
We'll say it was one of the best titles.

04:00:47.220 --> 04:00:50.860
One of the most eye-catching, I guess, titles anyway.

04:00:51.920 --> 04:00:52.760
Oh, yeah, I know.

04:00:52.760 --> 04:00:55.200
I hope you're not talking about the one I think you're talking about.

04:00:55.260 --> 04:00:56.220
We'll get to that later.

04:00:56.980 --> 04:00:57.860
Yeah, I think it is.

04:00:57.920 --> 04:00:59.680
I think you know what exactly I'm talking about, but anyway...

04:00:59.680 --> 04:00:59.880
Oh, great.

04:00:59.980 --> 04:01:00.820
I hate that one.

04:01:00.880 --> 04:01:01.640
I hate that title.

04:01:02.000 --> 04:01:02.360
Anyway...

04:01:02.360 --> 04:01:04.900
I saw that tonight, but we'll talk about it later.

04:01:05.080 --> 04:01:05.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

04:01:05.860 --> 04:01:07.960
We'll try to stay in some kind of sequence here.

04:01:08.680 --> 04:01:11.800
Yeah, this is one of our show topics where it was...

04:01:11.800 --> 04:01:16.580
I think it was lost on all of the audience, and, well, actually, the people who didn't

04:01:16.580 --> 04:01:19.620
need it understood it, and the people who didn't need it had no idea, so...

04:01:19.620 --> 04:01:24.920
I mean, we basically covered how not to be an idiot, and, you know, basically how to

04:01:24.920 --> 04:01:25.560
just sit there.

04:01:25.920 --> 04:01:29.520
Because, you know, people just come on these damn forums, and, I mean, I'm not going to

04:01:29.520 --> 04:01:30.680
say anything about our forums.

04:01:31.620 --> 04:01:32.100
Go ahead.

04:01:32.200 --> 04:01:35.400
Occasionally, you get the stupid person out there who just comes in and just asks them

04:01:35.400 --> 04:01:41.460
all these questions, and, you know, they're very obtuse, and you try to, you know, explain

04:01:41.460 --> 04:01:45.460
to them in very basic terms, and they're like, no, you're wrong, I'm smart, blah, blah,

04:01:45.460 --> 04:01:45.740
blah, blah.

04:01:45.740 --> 04:01:47.880
But that's basically what we try to cover.

04:01:47.880 --> 04:01:53.280
I mean, 90% of the people out there aren't that way, so, I mean, but it's that 10% that

04:01:53.280 --> 04:01:54.520
are, like, 90% of the noise.

04:01:54.920 --> 04:01:58.300
I don't know if I'd say 90%, but I'll play along for now.

04:01:59.680 --> 04:02:00.160
Be nice.

04:02:00.240 --> 04:02:01.020
Be nice, thanks.

04:02:01.100 --> 04:02:01.440
Be nice.

04:02:01.620 --> 04:02:02.260
Some of it...

04:02:02.260 --> 04:02:04.700
All right, see, the thing is, I have a...

04:02:04.700 --> 04:02:09.040
This is probably back-ass words, I'll admit that, but for some reason, my...

04:02:09.040 --> 04:02:13.720
The way I feel about this is, I have a little more patience for the total noobs that come

04:02:13.720 --> 04:02:14.740
in and act like that.

04:02:14.740 --> 04:02:20.640
You know, I know a lot of people get frustrated when people ask questions, and admittedly,

04:02:20.720 --> 04:02:23.420
they don't even try to find the answer on their own.

04:02:23.480 --> 04:02:27.060
They just come in, register, and say, hey, how do I hack hotmail, or whatever the case

04:02:27.060 --> 04:02:27.500
may be.

04:02:28.640 --> 04:02:34.360
As annoying as that can be over time, that's not what is the biggest annoyance of them.

04:02:34.360 --> 04:02:35.780
That is not my biggest pet peeve.

04:02:35.780 --> 04:02:39.920
I mean, yes, they're annoying, but that's why we have a new BHQ, and if that type of

04:02:39.920 --> 04:02:42.000
stuff annoys you, you probably should stay out of that forum.

04:02:42.400 --> 04:02:44.320
They're contained there for the most part.

04:02:44.420 --> 04:02:47.480
Of course, there's a few strays here and there, but the mods will move them in there.

04:02:48.020 --> 04:02:49.340
That's not the ones that bother me.

04:02:49.380 --> 04:02:53.940
The ones that bother me more, the bigger morons on the internet are not noobs.

04:02:53.940 --> 04:03:02.920
They're the elitists who think that they're a genius and tell you you're wrong and try

04:03:02.920 --> 04:03:04.440
to brag about how much they know.

04:03:04.860 --> 04:03:11.180
The people who go into new BHQ and try to answer 20 topics in a row, acting like they're

04:03:11.180 --> 04:03:15.040
a big authority, trying to make a big name for themselves or act like they're Mr. Big Shot,

04:03:15.040 --> 04:03:20.320
and then I have to go in, or our moderating team has to go in, or somebody else in the

04:03:20.320 --> 04:03:26.640
forums who's knowledgeable has to go in and go, okay, you're wrong, here's why, and trying

04:03:26.640 --> 04:03:29.400
to do that in a polite way is very difficult.

04:03:30.520 --> 04:03:33.340
I'm just saying that's like next to impossible, really.

04:03:33.460 --> 04:03:34.260
Yeah, it's important.

04:03:34.260 --> 04:03:38.800
Because technically, no matter how nice you are to the person, they'll come back because

04:03:38.800 --> 04:03:41.280
they have a chip on their shoulder now because you basically said, no, you're stupid.

04:03:41.520 --> 04:03:41.840
Right.

04:03:41.840 --> 04:03:46.460
I mean, and essentially, that's what you did say, and most of them are coming off and

04:03:46.460 --> 04:03:50.020
actually seeing it for what it is, but they don't want to admit that they're stupid, so.

04:03:50.780 --> 04:03:54.760
Boy, I'm trying to be diplomatic, and you're just throwing them under the stupid butt.

04:03:55.480 --> 04:03:56.400
Oh, screw it, man.

04:03:56.460 --> 04:03:56.820
I don't know.

04:03:57.480 --> 04:04:01.440
I don't really, you know, do that too often, so, hey.

04:04:01.660 --> 04:04:02.160
There you go.

04:04:02.560 --> 04:04:03.580
I just work now.

04:04:05.260 --> 04:04:08.240
I'm sad to admit that I hardly actually go onto the forums anymore.

04:04:08.360 --> 04:04:09.240
I just don't have time.

04:04:09.240 --> 04:04:13.380
The moron on the internet ratio is still as high as it ever was.

04:04:13.840 --> 04:04:16.380
Yeah, and I'm sad to admit I'm not contributing.

04:04:17.060 --> 04:04:20.960
I mean, I wish I could knock that down a little bit, but I can't.

04:04:21.340 --> 04:04:23.960
Hey, I'm just glad I was able to finally get you on to do the show tonight.

04:04:25.280 --> 04:04:25.980
Yeah, yeah.

04:04:26.520 --> 04:04:32.120
Basically, I mean, the reason why the show is so late, everyone, you can send a lot of hate

04:04:32.120 --> 04:04:37.700
emails to me, unfortunately, because, like, I just got a new job about a month or two

04:04:37.700 --> 04:04:42.640
ago, and it's just, it's great, but it's just really kicking my ass, and really, I just come

04:04:42.640 --> 04:04:45.320
home, and I say, man, I don't want to use the computer right now.

04:04:45.600 --> 04:04:46.500
Yeah, well, no.

04:04:46.560 --> 04:04:51.860
Yeah, or talk on the phone, or talk to anybody, or I basically just want to sit home and cuddle

04:04:51.860 --> 04:04:52.500
with Mrs. Ratchet.

04:04:52.500 --> 04:04:55.240
Aw, isn't that precious?

04:04:55.920 --> 04:04:58.080
You don't have to go all making excuses or any of that kind of stuff.

04:04:58.140 --> 04:04:58.840
Real life happens.

04:04:58.900 --> 04:05:03.820
We've always said that all along, you know, so it always takes precedence over everything,

04:05:03.940 --> 04:05:04.520
including the show.

04:05:04.620 --> 04:05:09.740
If I had to fly solo tonight, I would have, and ended the show with maximum suckage, but

04:05:09.740 --> 04:05:13.980
luckily, we had you on here, so let's see, where do we go from here?

04:05:15.320 --> 04:05:18.680
123, kind of a baby default episode, 123.

04:05:18.680 --> 04:05:24.520
I thought that was a good episode, because it's, well, kind of still appropriate today.

04:05:24.640 --> 04:05:30.020
The story and the topics covered on that, which was entitled Merger Mania, was about

04:05:30.020 --> 04:05:35.540
the whole Ma Bell, and the breakup, and all the telcos, and then how they all inbred each

04:05:35.540 --> 04:05:41.160
other, and intermingled, and became what it is today again, and even, when was this episode?

04:05:41.300 --> 04:05:43.040
This was recorded, what, 2005?

04:05:43.200 --> 04:05:45.700
I'm actually looking that up right now, because it just occurred to me.

04:05:45.700 --> 04:05:52.840
I'm not sure if we were just doing something for the, yeah, I just think we were coming

04:05:52.840 --> 04:05:55.800
back, yeah, I don't think we actually are talking about...

04:05:55.800 --> 04:05:57.780
I'm pretty sure it was before the AT&T...

04:05:57.780 --> 04:05:58.980
That's what...

04:05:58.980 --> 04:06:01.240
But it was before AT&T bought...

04:06:01.240 --> 04:06:01.720
Singular.

04:06:02.400 --> 04:06:07.940
Bought Singular, no, it was before AT&T bought Bell South, but it was when AT&T announced

04:06:07.940 --> 04:06:08.880
they were buying SBC.

04:06:09.520 --> 04:06:12.720
SBC was buying AT&T and renaming themselves AT&T.

04:06:12.720 --> 04:06:17.140
And actually, this is another really cool episode, because...

04:06:17.140 --> 04:06:20.100
Was AT&T Angular still around then, too, or was that later?

04:06:20.400 --> 04:06:26.900
No, this was when Singular was still there, AT&T Wireless got bought into Singular, but

04:06:26.900 --> 04:06:32.740
this was also before Singular renamed themselves AT&T, because Singular was partially owned by

04:06:32.740 --> 04:06:33.860
Ben...

04:06:33.860 --> 04:06:35.200
Oh, my head's exploding!

04:06:35.920 --> 04:06:38.180
And Bell South, oh yeah, I'm going on to hardcore tech.

04:06:38.180 --> 04:06:44.100
Anyway, but here's, before we actually have Head of Stank Dog's head explode, this is a

04:06:44.100 --> 04:06:52.440
fun episode, too, because Natus was in line, I think, was it an Xbox or was it an Xbox 360?

04:06:52.480 --> 04:06:53.340
Oh, is that the one?

04:06:53.840 --> 04:06:57.340
Yeah, he was out there trying to make some money hustling to get in line for an Xbox to

04:06:57.340 --> 04:06:58.040
sell it on eBay.

04:06:58.820 --> 04:06:59.400
Yeah, yeah.

04:06:59.400 --> 04:06:59.780
Was that that episode?

04:06:59.780 --> 04:07:02.300
He made a sweet profit on that.

04:07:02.360 --> 04:07:03.300
I'll give him props for that.

04:07:03.620 --> 04:07:07.440
I thought he was stupid, but for the amount of time that he invested in it, I think we

04:07:07.440 --> 04:07:09.640
calculated now that he made over $80 an hour.

04:07:09.820 --> 04:07:12.200
And I'm like, damn, I don't even charge from helping that much.

04:07:12.220 --> 04:07:13.880
Right, Natus is a hustler, man.

04:07:14.560 --> 04:07:15.080
He's a hustler.

04:07:15.080 --> 04:07:17.040
Natus is like the...

04:07:17.040 --> 04:07:22.900
Dude, what I want to do, I mean, if my Photoshop skills were real cool, I'd find a way of putting

04:07:22.900 --> 04:07:27.520
Natus on the Monopoly box with the money bills coming out of his pockets, because that's

04:07:27.520 --> 04:07:27.780
him.

04:07:27.980 --> 04:07:31.920
Dude, if we ever make Hackeropoly, which is one of my project ideas in the members forum

04:07:31.920 --> 04:07:36.100
from years ago, if we ever make Hackeropoly, we've got to have a little, like, instead

04:07:36.100 --> 04:07:38.420
of having the shoe and the iron, we've got to have Natus.

04:07:38.460 --> 04:07:40.920
We've got to have Natus with his gold chain around his neck.

04:07:41.440 --> 04:07:42.620
And then people get to fight.

04:07:42.660 --> 04:07:43.380
I want to be Natus.

04:07:43.400 --> 04:07:44.280
I want to be Natus.

04:07:45.060 --> 04:07:47.020
Who doesn't want to be Natus?

04:07:47.400 --> 04:07:48.780
Well, obviously.

04:07:49.280 --> 04:07:49.640
Duh.

04:07:51.500 --> 04:07:52.360
Oh, man.

04:07:53.160 --> 04:07:54.040
Let's see.

04:07:54.040 --> 04:07:57.280
Oh, 124, Postgres.

04:07:57.980 --> 04:07:58.300
Yeah.

04:07:58.400 --> 04:08:01.400
With Natus trying to tell us that Postgres doesn't suck.

04:08:01.600 --> 04:08:02.600
Yeah, Postgres sucks.

04:08:02.740 --> 04:08:03.360
It still sucks.

04:08:03.500 --> 04:08:04.080
No, it doesn't.

04:08:04.120 --> 04:08:04.820
I tried to learn it.

04:08:04.900 --> 04:08:05.800
I tried to figure it out.

04:08:05.900 --> 04:08:06.620
I tried to make sure.

04:08:06.740 --> 04:08:08.640
Oh, man, it's so much better than my S2O.

04:08:08.760 --> 04:08:09.620
Dude, I'm sorry.

04:08:09.780 --> 04:08:10.680
Postgres still sucks.

04:08:10.780 --> 04:08:11.180
No way.

04:08:11.360 --> 04:08:12.420
Postgres rocks.

04:08:13.260 --> 04:08:14.140
Postgres rocks.

04:08:15.240 --> 04:08:15.980
It's hardcore.

04:08:16.460 --> 04:08:18.040
Like, I was just out...

04:08:18.040 --> 04:08:19.460
I'm dropping F-bombs on this episode.

04:08:19.820 --> 04:08:20.480
Yeah, that's all right.

04:08:20.540 --> 04:08:20.900
You know what?

04:08:20.900 --> 04:08:25.480
That was another phase we went through where we were trying to hold back language for a

04:08:25.480 --> 04:08:25.680
while.

04:08:25.800 --> 04:08:28.640
I was trying to be more work-friendly and stuff like that.

04:08:28.700 --> 04:08:30.040
And I finally just said, you know what?

04:08:30.220 --> 04:08:31.440
Yeah, we were like, totally.

04:08:31.540 --> 04:08:32.560
Yeah, man, fuck swearing.

04:08:32.720 --> 04:08:33.020
Yeah.

04:08:33.360 --> 04:08:33.560
Oh, shit.

04:08:33.800 --> 04:08:34.120
Damn it.

04:08:34.180 --> 04:08:35.020
Fuck that one up.

04:08:35.100 --> 04:08:35.680
Oh, damn it.

04:08:35.700 --> 04:08:36.520
I did it again.

04:08:36.660 --> 04:08:37.420
Son of a bitch.

04:08:37.500 --> 04:08:38.120
Oh, no.

04:08:39.260 --> 04:08:39.540
Compounding.

04:08:40.620 --> 04:08:41.700
You're a fucking moron.

04:08:42.060 --> 04:08:43.280
Oh, fuck you.

04:08:44.360 --> 04:08:48.720
No, we finally just accepted that the show is not safe for work.

04:08:48.820 --> 04:08:49.460
We've said that.

04:08:49.460 --> 04:08:51.720
There were some warnings on the web page all along.

04:08:52.060 --> 04:08:54.600
I went through a phase where I tried to say, you know what?

04:08:55.220 --> 04:09:00.120
A lot of people have problems with the language, which I do understand and respect, but I just...

04:09:00.120 --> 04:09:01.040
I gotta be me.

04:09:01.300 --> 04:09:01.920
I'm sorry.

04:09:02.040 --> 04:09:04.560
And I'm not bragging, and it's certainly not anything I'm proud of.

04:09:04.660 --> 04:09:08.660
My vocabulary skills are, I guess, that dependent on foul language.

04:09:08.780 --> 04:09:11.860
But, you know, sometimes it gets the point across better.

04:09:11.980 --> 04:09:12.600
It's funnier.

04:09:12.740 --> 04:09:13.420
And it's just...

04:09:13.420 --> 04:09:15.080
You know, it's just keeping it real.

04:09:16.320 --> 04:09:16.640
So...

04:09:16.640 --> 04:09:17.920
That's what we do here on Midnight Radio.

04:09:18.020 --> 04:09:18.600
We keep it real.

04:09:18.960 --> 04:09:19.860
Love everything else.

04:09:19.900 --> 04:09:20.420
You got it.

04:09:21.960 --> 04:09:24.960
125, the very next episode, actually, a pretty big one for Strong.

04:09:25.100 --> 04:09:27.440
Him and Lance James co-hosted that episode.

04:09:27.640 --> 04:09:27.780
Yeah.

04:09:27.860 --> 04:09:30.460
I'm totally drawing blanks on why I wasn't here on these episodes.

04:09:30.800 --> 04:09:31.800
I think this was...

04:09:31.800 --> 04:09:32.900
I was buying a house.

04:09:32.900 --> 04:09:38.220
Well, you went, like, for a while there, you got the marriage, you're buying a house, new

04:09:38.220 --> 04:09:39.300
job, moving.

04:09:39.860 --> 04:09:43.400
You got a bunch of stuff going on there through...

04:09:43.400 --> 04:09:46.720
Well, off and on through all of season three, really.

04:09:47.380 --> 04:09:47.700
Yeah.

04:09:48.400 --> 04:09:52.540
Well, I mean, this is one of our cool episodes, because, you know, Lance James, you know, I

04:09:52.540 --> 04:09:53.460
mean, he knows his shit.

04:09:53.740 --> 04:09:54.140
He does.

04:09:54.280 --> 04:09:55.220
He's, like...

04:09:55.220 --> 04:09:55.740
He's hardcore.

04:09:55.960 --> 04:09:57.960
Oh, he's a good fishing expert, right?

04:09:58.180 --> 04:10:01.840
And he wrote the book Fishing Exposed, and they talked about that.

04:10:01.840 --> 04:10:07.500
So, definitely, if there's anything fishing-related, you're going to see Lance James' name attached

04:10:07.500 --> 04:10:08.180
to it somehow.

04:10:09.060 --> 04:10:09.280
Mm-hmm.

04:10:09.380 --> 04:10:11.140
And it's still around.

04:10:11.320 --> 04:10:14.860
So, I mean, this is an episode, one of those episodes you can actually still listen to.

04:10:14.960 --> 04:10:19.320
I mean, yeah, you know, techniques have changed and everything, but, you know, that's still

04:10:19.320 --> 04:10:20.840
a very prevalent...

04:10:20.840 --> 04:10:22.120
Right.

04:10:22.960 --> 04:10:24.640
...problem in the network.

04:10:24.820 --> 04:10:27.880
I mean, the network, the internets, the interwebs, the global interwebs.

04:10:28.040 --> 04:10:28.320
Right.

04:10:29.460 --> 04:10:30.760
Fishing in the tubes, baby.

04:10:30.880 --> 04:10:31.820
Fishing in the tubes.

04:10:32.280 --> 04:10:33.020
Hell yeah.

04:10:33.440 --> 04:10:40.180
And actually, it was a couple episodes after that that I think was one of, probably, definitely,

04:10:40.400 --> 04:10:46.920
well, yeah, definitely in my top ten, I'm not sure where, episodes was 127 with you and

04:10:46.920 --> 04:10:47.620
not theory.

04:10:49.080 --> 04:10:53.500
This, this, we, uh, this was one of my more favorite episodes.

04:10:53.960 --> 04:10:55.200
More favorite episodes?

04:10:55.320 --> 04:10:56.160
Is that proper grammar?

04:10:56.340 --> 04:10:56.620
Yeah.

04:10:56.840 --> 04:10:57.280
It's wrong.

04:10:57.500 --> 04:10:57.800
We're wrong.

04:10:57.800 --> 04:10:59.840
We speak, we fail English, that's impossible.

04:11:00.440 --> 04:11:01.900
This was one of my favorite episodes.

04:11:02.020 --> 04:11:06.020
This was a solid episode, and I think another thing that I was proud of was that we kept

04:11:06.020 --> 04:11:09.180
it to an hour and a half or pretty much close to it, which was something that I always really

04:11:09.180 --> 04:11:09.900
made the problems with.

04:11:10.820 --> 04:11:16.420
But, um, we, we, we took care of it, and, I mean, we talked about it, and we, because

04:11:16.420 --> 04:11:20.780
basically, this was right before Visual Studio, or right after Visual Studio 2000, another,

04:11:20.960 --> 04:11:23.120
Visual Studio 2005 was released.

04:11:23.120 --> 04:11:27.680
And I, and this basically just started between a conversation and not theory high, because

04:11:27.680 --> 04:11:34.200
we were talking, and basically we agreed, you know, Visual Studio 2005 really doesn't

04:11:34.200 --> 04:11:36.000
suck as much as we thought it would.

04:11:36.220 --> 04:11:38.480
And he's like, oh, geez, yeah, totally.

04:11:39.560 --> 04:11:43.380
Most didn't actually say that, but he was saying it in those not theory-esque ways.

04:11:43.560 --> 04:11:44.180
What can I say?

04:11:44.240 --> 04:11:45.800
You guys turn into Valley Girls, or what?

04:11:46.080 --> 04:11:46.340
Yeah.

04:11:47.060 --> 04:11:48.000
Oh, yeah, totally.

04:11:48.220 --> 04:11:49.880
Like, the guy, you see, sharp rocks.

04:11:49.880 --> 04:11:54.600
There were, there were a lot of times, there were a whole lot of times where we'd made jokes

04:11:54.600 --> 04:11:59.960
and almost went through with doing episodes, the entire episode in, like, funny voices.

04:12:00.100 --> 04:12:05.020
Like, that started back in, with Not Theory and I in, uh, System Shock Soar and our rock

04:12:05.020 --> 04:12:06.740
and roll, 80s rock and roll voices.

04:12:07.220 --> 04:12:11.160
We were so tempted, we were always going to do Talk Like a Pirate episodes on Talk Like

04:12:11.160 --> 04:12:14.880
a Pirate Day, and we never went through with any of it, because we thought it would be too

04:12:14.880 --> 04:12:16.100
detracting to the content.

04:12:19.880 --> 04:12:26.460
Yeah, and, I'm sure many people are glad to do that.

04:12:27.000 --> 04:12:28.260
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.

04:12:28.800 --> 04:12:32.820
Hey, my, my whole, this is not an accent or a joke voice that I do now.

04:12:32.940 --> 04:12:37.740
I'm beyond, contrary to popular belief, I'm just a little bit of a redneck, so this is,

04:12:37.960 --> 04:12:38.940
this is real voice.

04:12:39.020 --> 04:12:39.740
This is real me.

04:12:40.740 --> 04:12:44.400
Um, but back to this, um, one of the things that's difficult that I don't think of.

04:12:44.400 --> 04:12:44.740
You're a redneck?

04:12:44.880 --> 04:12:45.140
No.

04:12:45.140 --> 04:12:48.600
No, just a little, I'm no droops, but I'm, you know, a little bit.

04:12:49.200 --> 04:12:52.240
I'm not redneck, I'm country, there's a difference, but I'm not going to go into the semantics

04:12:52.240 --> 04:12:52.560
of that.

04:12:52.600 --> 04:12:53.240
No, he's hardcore.

04:12:53.240 --> 04:12:55.040
Yeah, yeah, right.

04:12:55.660 --> 04:13:03.540
Um, the thing that I don't think a lot of people appreciate with episodes like this is, you know,

04:13:03.680 --> 04:13:11.200
some people want really, really hardcore tech, and that's really difficult to pull off on

04:13:11.200 --> 04:13:15.200
the radio, and we've talked about it before, but this is a great example of it.

04:13:15.200 --> 04:13:21.040
You don't want to just read source code to people over the radio, you know, audio of you

04:13:21.040 --> 04:13:24.580
reading commands and stuff like that, that's difficult to pull off.

04:13:24.620 --> 04:13:29.980
It can be done, and you can give a few examples, maybe some functions or some tips and stuff

04:13:29.980 --> 04:13:30.480
like that.

04:13:30.520 --> 04:13:38.020
I did an episode of, um, of, uh, TWA, uh, Today with a Tech Radio, and, um, I had to be careful

04:13:38.020 --> 04:13:44.480
and try to keep it entertaining and interesting and not completely dry when you talk about topics,

04:13:44.480 --> 04:13:46.500
especially code-related topics.

04:13:49.320 --> 04:13:50.160
So, I don't know.

04:13:50.180 --> 04:13:53.980
Yeah, and it's really, I mean, we, I mean, we can, we can, we can go out and we can talk

04:13:53.980 --> 04:14:00.200
about, oh, okay, so then we go, C-O-U-T, broke it, broke it, quote, and that's like, that's

04:14:00.200 --> 04:14:04.020
stuff, you know, process, someone actually picks up what language that is, I'll give you

04:14:04.020 --> 04:14:07.180
credit for that, but that's kind of, kind of obvious, and if you've been an experience

04:14:07.180 --> 04:14:11.080
to it, you should know, but, um, I mean, you can't do that, that's boring, I mean, but

04:14:11.080 --> 04:14:14.360
I think we did a really good episode, I'm just talking about why we like visual

04:14:14.360 --> 04:14:18.640
studio, you know, why .NET, and this, Visual Studio 2005, kind of, like, really turned

04:14:18.640 --> 04:14:22.940
my eyes on to, like, hey, you know, .NET and Microsoft, this Microsoft thing really doesn't

04:14:22.940 --> 04:14:28.640
suck as much as everyone says, and kind of really just took me down that path, and I'm

04:14:28.640 --> 04:14:32.460
sure people are just pulling out their hair going, my God, no!

04:14:33.020 --> 04:14:36.220
Yeah, it's hard, and, and the other thing is, too, you're trying to balance to an audience

04:14:36.220 --> 04:14:42.320
of varied experiences and knowledge levels, so if you go too light on the topic, then your

04:14:42.320 --> 04:14:46.140
hardcore people are going to be disappointed, and if you go too hardcore, you're going to

04:14:46.140 --> 04:14:48.800
be above a lot of people's heads, so you had to kind of balance that.

04:14:48.800 --> 04:14:53.440
We always try to structure the shows, and again, it goes back to how much emphasis I

04:14:53.440 --> 04:14:58.540
always put on and leaned on you about structure and how important that was that we start off

04:14:58.540 --> 04:15:04.900
and cater to new people, explain the basics, do some terminology on some of the tech episodes,

04:15:04.900 --> 04:15:09.400
and work our way into the deeper aspect of it, so that we get people caught up to speed

04:15:09.400 --> 04:15:14.640
as quickly as possible, if, if it was possible, in some cases, maybe not.

04:15:16.560 --> 04:15:24.340
What about, there was another, actually, let's jump ahead to 128, because there's a little

04:15:24.340 --> 04:15:26.860
bit of trivia there that I don't know that a lot of people caught up on.

04:15:26.960 --> 04:15:30.840
I don't, did you even mention on the show the significance of the title of that episode,

04:15:30.980 --> 04:15:31.300
128?

04:15:31.300 --> 04:15:35.900
No, what we're talking about 128 is free-floating hostility, and I'm actually glad Stank pointed

04:15:35.900 --> 04:15:37.900
this out, because I don't think anyone ever noticed this.

04:15:38.220 --> 04:15:40.980
Free-floating hostility is a George Carlin routine.

04:15:41.100 --> 04:15:45.660
That's from one of the CDs, where you get, and it's basically more or less what we talked

04:15:45.660 --> 04:15:49.480
about was things that pisses off, and of course, he did it probably a lot funnier than we did,

04:15:49.580 --> 04:15:55.840
but I didn't, I don't think I mentioned that, and I think my logic at the time was, I wanted

04:15:55.840 --> 04:15:58.760
to see who would notice, and I don't think anyone did, unfortunately.

04:15:58.760 --> 04:16:06.280
And, I was actually, yeah, you caught it, but I'm a George, you get the official bin

04:16:06.280 --> 04:16:06.980
red gold star.

04:16:07.120 --> 04:16:10.300
I'm a George Carlin fan, so it kind of jumped out at me.

04:16:10.860 --> 04:16:12.020
Now, was this a cop-out episode?

04:16:12.180 --> 04:16:13.120
What was this episode about?

04:16:13.800 --> 04:16:17.460
Oh, it was a bit of a cop-out episode, because we, as a left, didn't have a topic, but we

04:16:17.460 --> 04:16:22.340
just had some stuff that, you know, just stuff that pisses us off, and we had a, this is

04:16:22.340 --> 04:16:26.640
essentially, you know, damn it, we're on our soapbox, you know, you know, Emmanuel Goethstein

04:16:26.640 --> 04:16:29.320
can talk about, you know, socialism and all those wonderful things.

04:16:29.360 --> 04:16:31.020
We can go talk about things that piss us off.

04:16:31.260 --> 04:16:31.580
Right.

04:16:32.320 --> 04:16:37.200
Well, and yeah, we've made a lot of allegations, or references, I guess is a better choice of

04:16:37.200 --> 04:16:41.200
words, to how we tried to avoid politics whenever we could.

04:16:41.200 --> 04:16:44.700
But actually, let's jump ahead a few episodes here, let's, uh...

04:16:44.700 --> 04:16:47.020
Actually, here's something I want to talk about, 128.

04:16:47.540 --> 04:16:49.820
I just knew this was when I was looking through the show episode.

04:16:50.440 --> 04:16:58.580
Um, we were actually doing a map of binary revolution radio listeners, and I completely

04:16:58.580 --> 04:17:06.020
forgot, actually, this occurs to me occasionally, um, but I just turned it back on, and I looked

04:17:06.020 --> 04:17:09.020
at it, and we've got some far-flung people out here.

04:17:09.280 --> 04:17:10.580
Is that thing still alive?

04:17:11.200 --> 04:17:12.680
Yeah, yeah, it is.

04:17:12.740 --> 04:17:15.640
It's actually, they've improved the, they've improved the look quite a bit, and they actually

04:17:15.640 --> 04:17:18.340
don't, I just believe, like, Google Map ripoff anymore.

04:17:18.880 --> 04:17:20.120
Still Google Maps, but we can tell.

04:17:20.560 --> 04:17:23.160
Um, I'm just going to rattle off a few names here.

04:17:23.220 --> 04:17:26.500
We have E-minus in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

04:17:26.740 --> 04:17:27.440
Holy cow.

04:17:27.520 --> 04:17:33.600
And we have Daniel in Gauteng, South Africa.

04:17:34.740 --> 04:17:36.880
Man, that's one thing I always love.

04:17:36.880 --> 04:17:37.700
Yeah, oh yeah, no, we're not done yet.

04:17:37.700 --> 04:17:44.180
We have, we have Madar in Taipei, which is also known as Taiwan for us American folk.

04:17:44.840 --> 04:17:48.300
Um, and he's actually written into the show before, if I remember correctly, because I

04:17:48.300 --> 04:17:52.060
don't think there's, unless there's two people in Taiwan who are listening to the show.

04:17:52.460 --> 04:17:52.820
Awesome.

04:17:52.820 --> 04:17:57.360
Um, and the other one that kind of stuck out in the middle of nowhere, hold on, I wouldn't

04:17:57.360 --> 04:18:00.540
say middle of nowhere, because I'm sure it's a, yeah, it's a huge community, because it's

04:18:00.540 --> 04:18:01.900
Singapore, it's beautiful noise.

04:18:02.620 --> 04:18:06.940
We have some people in Australia, I think it looks like we have someone in Sweden.

04:18:06.940 --> 04:18:10.480
There's lots in the UK, and Ireland, and England.

04:18:10.860 --> 04:18:14.460
Oh, Prince Vegeta in Bucharest, Romania, speaking of fishers.

04:18:14.580 --> 04:18:17.760
Anyway, nothing personal.

04:18:17.980 --> 04:18:23.580
I mean, I'm sure Prince Vegeta is really freaking cool and completely legit, but Romania is a

04:18:23.580 --> 04:18:24.740
large fishing community.

04:18:24.880 --> 04:18:25.420
It's a haven.

04:18:25.560 --> 04:18:27.020
There's no denying that.

04:18:28.020 --> 04:18:29.640
I said, it's a haven for fishers.

04:18:29.700 --> 04:18:30.620
There's no denying that.

04:18:30.900 --> 04:18:31.280
We speak the truth.

04:18:31.280 --> 04:18:35.220
I mean, I don't want to knock him, because, you know, this guy could, you know, be legit

04:18:35.220 --> 04:18:36.520
and everything, but what's this?

04:18:36.560 --> 04:18:38.200
We have someone in Wellington, New England.

04:18:39.580 --> 04:18:40.620
Man, crazy.

04:18:40.840 --> 04:18:44.520
You know, and I always, you know, people always kind of laugh or kind of tease me or whatever,

04:18:44.600 --> 04:18:49.180
because I was always so excited to get emails to the show from all these exotic locations,

04:18:49.320 --> 04:18:54.620
exotic to me as an American who is not as well-traveled as I would like to be.

04:18:55.340 --> 04:18:58.340
I, it just still, I know what the interweb is.

04:18:58.400 --> 04:19:02.620
I know how the interweb works and all the tubes and all the different countries and global

04:19:02.620 --> 04:19:08.300
economy, et cetera, et cetera, and no boundaries, but it's, I don't know, maybe it's an age

04:19:08.300 --> 04:19:13.500
thing or something, but every once in a while, and it's moments like this where you see where

04:19:13.500 --> 04:19:17.900
people are coming from, you get an email from this, this location, you never would have

04:19:17.900 --> 04:19:22.000
imagined somebody listening to you, and you just, I don't know, sometimes it's just those

04:19:22.000 --> 04:19:28.440
events are what make me step back and go, wow, that's fucked up, you know, that is, that's

04:19:28.440 --> 04:19:29.180
insane.

04:19:29.840 --> 04:19:33.940
When we got the email from Taiwan, it was sort of like, wow, people are actually listening

04:19:33.940 --> 04:19:34.920
in freaking Taiwan?

04:19:35.100 --> 04:19:35.820
Don't they have lives?

04:19:35.960 --> 04:19:37.740
Don't they have actually shows that don't suck over there?

04:19:37.960 --> 04:19:42.560
Nope, they have, they have hackers, they have hacker geeks all over the world.

04:19:43.280 --> 04:19:43.520
Yeah.

04:19:43.920 --> 04:19:44.620
Well, geek, geek.

04:19:44.620 --> 04:19:44.980
Thank God.

04:19:44.980 --> 04:19:47.280
Geek, geek, geek, and hacking is one of those universal traits.

04:19:47.280 --> 04:19:51.440
It's just, it's there, it's not, you know, being bound by, you know, race, religion,

04:19:51.500 --> 04:19:51.860
or whatever.

04:19:52.280 --> 04:19:53.420
Thank goodness for that.

04:19:54.100 --> 04:19:54.460
Yeah.

04:19:55.280 --> 04:19:57.280
All right, let's jump ahead a few episodes now.

04:19:57.360 --> 04:20:02.380
This is going to be such a long episode 200 of Binary Revolution Radio, but you know what?

04:20:02.420 --> 04:20:03.500
It's going to be epic.

04:20:03.720 --> 04:20:06.800
I don't care, let's, we're going to wrap it up, we're going to, there's a lot of good

04:20:06.800 --> 04:20:07.300
stories here.

04:20:07.540 --> 04:20:08.880
Some of this stuff is new to me.

04:20:09.240 --> 04:20:12.200
Some of this stuff I had forgotten about, or some of this stuff I didn't even know about

04:20:12.200 --> 04:20:13.360
some of these behind the scenes stories.

04:20:13.360 --> 04:20:19.680
So, let's see, here's another, I guess, highlight episode 134, Mark Spencer, the creator of it.

04:20:19.680 --> 04:20:23.880
Oh, Mark Spencer coming in, and basically we, I think it was more than Mark Spencer, I think

04:20:23.880 --> 04:20:27.080
it was a bunch of guys from, did you, no, was this the one, I forget now.

04:20:27.680 --> 04:20:31.580
We had one where Mark Spencer was just on, we had one where basically it was a conference

04:20:31.580 --> 04:20:34.640
from Indigium, and we just did the entire radio show from there.

04:20:34.840 --> 04:20:37.960
Well, we weren't there, but we called into their bridge line and bridged them in.

04:20:37.960 --> 04:20:43.720
But this was, yeah, this was the show where Mark, basically, we came in and we told him,

04:20:43.980 --> 04:20:47.520
yeah, talk about something you don't do that isn't directly related to the asterisk or something

04:20:47.520 --> 04:20:48.120
that you do do.

04:20:48.440 --> 04:20:52.420
And he talked a lot about, yeah, that was his big thing.

04:20:52.540 --> 04:20:58.520
That was his, I remember, what shocked me was, it was the same, you know, I remember

04:20:58.520 --> 04:21:01.800
using G-O check in the day, and I was sort of like, oh, wow, he wrote that, damn.

04:21:02.040 --> 04:21:05.540
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize it's not just, you know, he gets pigeonholed as asterisk,

04:21:05.540 --> 04:21:07.520
but he's worked on a lot of other stuff as well.

04:21:08.140 --> 04:21:10.840
Hey, G-A-M, or pigeon, or whatever the hell they call themselves out.

04:21:10.860 --> 04:21:13.540
Game, yeah, nobody realizes that that's him too, game?

04:21:13.920 --> 04:21:17.360
Oh, yeah, this is the one where they called in from the Digium conference room.

04:21:17.580 --> 04:21:17.800
Yeah.

04:21:18.740 --> 04:21:20.240
I wasn't 100% sure.

04:21:20.760 --> 04:21:23.800
And actually, I don't, did we do this live?

04:21:23.860 --> 04:21:27.540
I forget if we did this live, but you can actually watch it while they were on their official

04:21:27.540 --> 04:21:29.420
asterisk webcam.

04:21:29.420 --> 04:21:35.900
Yeah, and didn't they play some of the, they had some custom, they played some of the previews

04:21:35.900 --> 04:21:39.520
of the voice response system, was that that episode too?

04:21:39.860 --> 04:21:40.220
Yes.

04:21:40.460 --> 04:21:42.920
Yeah, I remember that one, I definitely remember that episode.

04:21:44.380 --> 04:21:47.680
And then the one right after that was the Valentine's Day special.

04:21:47.860 --> 04:21:49.720
Now, that one I always found kind of funny.

04:21:49.740 --> 04:21:53.720
Okay, I'd like to go on record here and officially apologize to everyone who listened to that episode,

04:21:53.720 --> 04:21:59.320
because that episode, I think it went beyond sucking golf balls through garden noises, and

04:21:59.320 --> 04:22:03.440
really just went through, you know, black holes sucking universes through quantum filaments.

04:22:03.960 --> 04:22:09.040
Well, it was kind of a geek love radio episode as it ended up happening, and Sub-Zero had been

04:22:09.040 --> 04:22:13.720
on tech TV talking about some of that stuff, so it was kind of timely at the time.

04:22:13.800 --> 04:22:18.900
Maybe in retrospect, it didn't work so well, but all I'm saying is, to me, I was always

04:22:18.900 --> 04:22:24.420
laughing at it, because I, maybe it's the perv in me coming out, maybe I've been on 4chan

04:22:24.420 --> 04:22:29.600
too long, but I would have used prawn names for that episode on Valentine's Day, I don't know why.

04:22:29.620 --> 04:22:31.160
Well, that's because you're ill.

04:22:31.360 --> 04:22:36.240
I know, I'm broken, what can I tell you, I need upgrades, I need patches.

04:22:38.860 --> 04:22:42.880
What, what, where do you want to go from here, 136?

04:22:42.880 --> 04:22:48.640
Oh, 136, now, now, we always talk about how the show ages well, but this is one that kind

04:22:48.640 --> 04:22:54.020
of stands out, because we were, back in, you know, February 2006, this happened, like,

04:22:54.080 --> 04:22:59.440
I think, just, we talked about this episode, just before, there was this great big patent

04:22:59.440 --> 04:23:04.860
battle between RIM and this company called NDP, which essentially owned, like, three obvious

04:23:04.860 --> 04:23:08.720
patents, where it was sort of like, yeah, we have a patent on devices that can read email

04:23:08.720 --> 04:23:14.200
through a cell phone network, and they were suing RIM, and this was, like, major news

04:23:14.200 --> 04:23:21.420
at the time, and what, I mean, basically, the funny thing is, it was major news at the time,

04:23:21.500 --> 04:23:23.560
but, is it, who would remember this?

04:23:23.600 --> 04:23:27.780
I didn't remember this, like, until I started actually going over the show notes again, like,

04:23:27.780 --> 04:23:30.140
I was like, damn, man, we did an entire episode on that?

04:23:30.260 --> 04:23:31.880
Man, who even remembers that now?

04:23:32.280 --> 04:23:34.480
Yeah, and, I'm sorry, go ahead.

04:23:34.480 --> 04:23:38.180
Yeah, and it was just one of those things that really kind of stuck out in my mind, where,

04:23:38.640 --> 04:23:42.560
yeah, you know, we're always on topic, you know, this is all the old limits of things

04:23:42.560 --> 04:23:46.220
age well, and this one, yeah, not so much, kind of.

04:23:46.820 --> 04:23:51.620
Yeah, and, you know, that's a good point, and that's something that, also, we had always

04:23:51.620 --> 04:23:52.800
been very firm about.

04:23:53.700 --> 04:23:57.580
Admittedly, the first handful of episodes, when I was getting my feet wet with the show, we

04:23:57.580 --> 04:24:03.620
probably did cover some news topics, more so than I wanted to, but that's one of the

04:24:03.620 --> 04:24:04.360
reasons why.

04:24:04.640 --> 04:24:09.500
A, is because I've always had a pet peeve about, there's just so many podcasts out

04:24:09.500 --> 04:24:10.480
there that read to me.

04:24:10.920 --> 04:24:16.860
Look, I can read SlashDod and Reddit and these other news aggregators, et cetera, et cetera.

04:24:17.100 --> 04:24:20.700
I can read that stuff on my own, or I'll hear about it from talking to friends.

04:24:21.060 --> 04:24:24.360
I don't really want to listen, and this is just my personal opinion, I don't want to

04:24:24.360 --> 04:24:29.960
listen to a podcast, basically read to me, or interpret, or tell me the story of something

04:24:29.960 --> 04:24:34.380
that, you know, it's A, I've already read about, or if I haven't read about it, I can

04:24:34.380 --> 04:24:38.980
read about it easily, and get a little bit more reliable source, I guess.

04:24:39.180 --> 04:24:45.900
I don't need you to read to me, and then, you know, it just is not good radio to me.

04:24:45.980 --> 04:24:51.120
That's the type of show that I always disliked, and I always swore from, you know, early on

04:24:51.120 --> 04:24:52.760
that I didn't want to get pigeonholed into that.

04:24:52.820 --> 04:24:53.680
I don't want to do it well.

04:24:53.960 --> 04:24:56.920
I don't want to do this, because I know that they won't hold up well over time.

04:24:56.920 --> 04:25:01.080
No one's ever wanted to go back and listen to them, and early on, I realized that, and

04:25:01.080 --> 04:25:04.800
decided to really, I wanted to emphasize teaching concepts.

04:25:05.260 --> 04:25:06.940
That's why we have titles to the show.

04:25:07.040 --> 04:25:09.400
We try to keep every show topical.

04:25:09.680 --> 04:25:15.720
Choose a topic, do the research, or use the knowledge we have, or get hosts on the show

04:25:15.720 --> 04:25:19.380
that have that knowledge, and cover topics.

04:25:19.840 --> 04:25:21.680
Topics are timeless.

04:25:22.420 --> 04:25:24.160
Fishing is still fishing.

04:25:24.980 --> 04:25:26.520
Tunneling is still tunneling.

04:25:26.920 --> 04:25:29.420
Pearl is still Pearl.

04:25:29.780 --> 04:25:33.880
There's things that are always going to stand up, and they're always going to work, and

04:25:33.880 --> 04:25:36.420
they're always going to be somewhat fresh.

04:25:37.200 --> 04:25:38.620
And I always try to do that.

04:25:38.760 --> 04:25:42.280
You know, we kind of agree with that, but this was, like, such a major story at the time.

04:25:42.920 --> 04:25:43.080
Sure.

04:25:43.440 --> 04:25:47.800
And I think it actually comes back to prove your point, that it was a huge story at the

04:25:47.800 --> 04:25:50.120
time, and nothing happens.

04:25:50.260 --> 04:25:51.940
I mean, you know, we're still around.

04:25:51.940 --> 04:25:56.800
I think they paid an obscene amount of money, but they were just like, okay, well, how many

04:25:56.800 --> 04:25:57.100
zeros?

04:25:57.260 --> 04:25:57.580
All right.

04:25:57.900 --> 04:25:58.160
Right.

04:25:58.640 --> 04:26:02.400
Well, and you know, and we make mistakes, so if it is a story that we think is going to

04:26:02.400 --> 04:26:06.760
be big, and we think may be more timely, you know, then it will work out in the long

04:26:06.760 --> 04:26:06.900
run.

04:26:06.980 --> 04:26:07.640
This one just didn't.

04:26:07.640 --> 04:26:10.960
So, you know, in retrospect, hey, hindsight's 20-20, right?

04:26:11.600 --> 04:26:11.760
Yeah.

04:26:13.540 --> 04:26:16.380
One of your favorites came up shortly thereafter, 138?

04:26:17.600 --> 04:26:18.820
138 Pirate Radio.

04:26:18.960 --> 04:26:24.360
Now, this was one of those cool ones where I think, our co-host this week was Evil Deshi,

04:26:25.040 --> 04:26:26.860
and, oh, God, I don't even know where he is now.

04:26:26.920 --> 04:26:31.060
I think he kind of faded away from the scene, unfortunately, but he basically, I think he

04:26:31.060 --> 04:26:33.640
IM'd me and said, yeah, you know, I run a pirate radio station.

04:26:33.640 --> 04:26:39.540
Oh, no, he e-mailed us and said, I run a pirate radio station, and I want to rebroadcast

04:26:39.540 --> 04:26:41.660
your episodes live while it's streaming.

04:26:42.000 --> 04:26:43.600
And he said, would you be okay with that?

04:26:43.680 --> 04:26:47.040
And I said, you run a pirate radio station?

04:26:47.340 --> 04:26:47.560
Yeah.

04:26:48.980 --> 04:26:49.840
Fine with me.

04:26:49.940 --> 04:26:51.660
Would you like to come on the radio show and talk about it?

04:26:51.900 --> 04:26:53.300
He's like, okay.

04:26:53.900 --> 04:26:54.400
Yeah, exactly.

04:26:54.400 --> 04:27:00.040
And it was just really cool because there's something, I mean, I don't think a lot of people

04:27:00.040 --> 04:27:03.860
will, like, even, like, remember this, like, you know, for 50 years.

04:27:04.340 --> 04:27:07.160
But, like, I really got into it in, like, the whirling.

04:27:07.200 --> 04:27:13.680
I think they actually get into making pirate radio, but the early, like, 90s, even really

04:27:13.680 --> 04:27:17.240
before that, the early 90s when I started playing around with it, like, you know, shortwave.

04:27:18.020 --> 04:27:21.940
And even, it's still around today, but, like, there used to be, like, this huge scene that

04:27:21.940 --> 04:27:27.040
people would run, you know, transmitters out of their basins on, like, shortwave radio

04:27:27.040 --> 04:27:29.140
and create these radio stations out there.

04:27:29.440 --> 04:27:31.020
And it was a really underground community.

04:27:31.960 --> 04:27:36.000
And nowadays, now the Internet's, like, completely, like, perplexed it.

04:27:36.100 --> 04:27:37.500
And you're still out there.

04:27:38.000 --> 04:27:41.340
And, like, you, I mean, if you listen off the hook, they occasionally talk about stuff.

04:27:41.440 --> 04:27:42.780
Currently, it's really big in New York.

04:27:42.840 --> 04:27:47.080
And apparently, there's a couple of FM stations in Boston that are literally pirate.

04:27:47.080 --> 04:27:54.800
But it was just amazing to me at the time that, A, you know, I think he was younger than me,

04:27:54.860 --> 04:27:58.240
this guy was running this radio station out of his bedroom.

04:27:59.200 --> 04:28:03.860
And he wanted to actually, A, drew his new show, and, B, wanted to come on and talk about it.

04:28:03.920 --> 04:28:08.440
Because it was just something from my childhood that was sort of like, wow, I'm talking to

04:28:08.440 --> 04:28:10.280
a real pirate radio broadcaster.

04:28:11.720 --> 04:28:12.120
Yeah.

04:28:12.340 --> 04:28:15.500
And there's two things to that that are important to point out.

04:28:15.500 --> 04:28:15.860
Memories.

04:28:16.080 --> 04:28:16.540
What's that?

04:28:18.080 --> 04:28:18.600
Memories.

04:28:19.960 --> 04:28:23.440
There's two things worth emphasizing in there, too.

04:28:23.760 --> 04:28:28.220
One is how we always welcome people who wanted to come in.

04:28:28.540 --> 04:28:32.600
You know, we listen to the listeners, you know, when they had feedback for us.

04:28:32.600 --> 04:28:34.540
And when they had email, give us topics.

04:28:34.640 --> 04:28:38.520
We were glad to put you on the show if you were an authority and you did know the topic at hand

04:28:38.520 --> 04:28:42.120
and could, you know, add to it or even teach us about the topic.

04:28:42.120 --> 04:28:45.280
I never had any embarrassment or admitting, hey, come on the show.

04:28:45.280 --> 04:28:46.760
I don't know anything about that topic.

04:28:46.840 --> 04:28:47.620
I'd love to hear it.

04:28:47.640 --> 04:28:48.720
Come on and do the show with me.

04:28:48.780 --> 04:28:51.320
I have no qualms, no problem saying that.

04:28:51.720 --> 04:28:53.980
And I wish a whole lot more people would have done that.

04:28:54.060 --> 04:28:54.760
We could have buried it.

04:28:54.920 --> 04:28:57.760
I mean, I think we did a great job of mixing hosts quite a bit.

04:28:57.860 --> 04:28:59.580
I mean, we have so many different people.

04:28:59.580 --> 04:29:01.320
But that's the first thing about that.

04:29:01.400 --> 04:29:08.680
The second is that, yeah, there were actually quite a few radio stations that would restream our show

04:29:08.680 --> 04:29:16.680
and broadcast it over real, actual AM, FM radio, college stations, quite a few stations, believe it or not.

04:29:16.760 --> 04:29:20.340
I bet there were probably upwards of maybe ten stations over the years that aired it.

04:29:20.340 --> 04:29:28.080
Now, the fact that his was live, my immediate thing is, well, he's fucked because we say fuck a lot.

04:29:28.740 --> 04:29:33.760
But it's pirate radio, so it really doesn't have a factor for him.

04:29:34.000 --> 04:29:39.800
A lot of the other people, the problem with rebroadcasting it was, well, yeah, our language sometimes.

04:29:39.940 --> 04:29:43.560
And, again, we went through the little try to clean it up, and that was one of the motivations for it.

04:29:43.560 --> 04:29:46.220
But, yeah, that didn't work.

04:29:46.840 --> 04:29:51.520
I believe one of the college radio stations actually went in, and a guy, like, delayed us about, like, a week or two

04:29:51.520 --> 04:29:54.180
while he went in and edited us all the nasty bits out.

04:29:54.260 --> 04:29:55.760
Yeah, he actually put in the bleep.

04:29:55.820 --> 04:29:57.420
Which was, like, good for him, man.

04:29:57.460 --> 04:29:58.460
He was just, like, crazy.

04:29:59.460 --> 04:30:00.040
That was cool.

04:30:01.680 --> 04:30:02.060
Go ahead.

04:30:02.240 --> 04:30:02.960
I said that was cool.

04:30:03.020 --> 04:30:03.680
That was very cool.

04:30:04.400 --> 04:30:05.260
Yeah, that was very cool.

04:30:05.380 --> 04:30:08.180
And just, like, that took, like, an extreme amount of dedication.

04:30:08.380 --> 04:30:09.660
I don't know who he is.

04:30:09.680 --> 04:30:10.480
I don't know what his name is.

04:30:10.480 --> 04:30:12.660
I don't even know what the radio station is, but props to him.

04:30:13.320 --> 04:30:13.460
Yeah.

04:30:14.140 --> 04:30:17.560
You know, and even though I'm not putting a time limit on this final episode of the show,

04:30:17.940 --> 04:30:19.440
we've got to speed up a little bit, man.

04:30:19.460 --> 04:30:20.880
We've been doing this for an hour already.

04:30:21.220 --> 04:30:22.260
Yeah, tell me about it.

04:30:22.280 --> 04:30:22.840
Crazy, huh?

04:30:23.300 --> 04:30:25.700
So many memories and so much to talk about.

04:30:26.340 --> 04:30:26.700
Really.

04:30:27.560 --> 04:30:29.280
This is your life.

04:30:29.500 --> 04:30:30.120
Nobody here.

04:30:30.140 --> 04:30:30.740
This is your memory.

04:30:31.820 --> 04:30:33.180
We're kidding about that, man.

04:30:33.480 --> 04:30:33.840
Holy.

04:30:34.240 --> 04:30:35.040
Man, this is a little.

04:30:35.360 --> 04:30:39.380
I think something that people, like, actually, we'll talk about this in a couple episodes,

04:30:39.380 --> 04:30:43.540
because it's actually related to something that happened in, like, a couple of episodes.

04:30:43.560 --> 04:30:44.340
All right.

04:30:44.340 --> 04:30:44.400
All right.

04:30:45.240 --> 04:30:46.920
141 was another fun episode for me.

04:30:46.980 --> 04:30:50.920
It was something that I completely didn't know about, and Dr. Zygmunt came in and talked

04:30:50.920 --> 04:30:53.920
about bioinformatics, because he's actually a biology geek.

04:30:53.920 --> 04:31:04.520
He was a crazy expert on this, and I was just going, wow, because he knew all this stuff

04:31:04.520 --> 04:31:06.680
on it, and he just hit it right out of the park.

04:31:06.780 --> 04:31:10.440
And apparently, he's gone on and done a lot more research on this topic.

04:31:10.440 --> 04:31:11.080
Yeah.

04:31:11.080 --> 04:31:19.440
You know, the thing about this is, if your area of interest is really doing research on

04:31:19.440 --> 04:31:29.080
really breaking technology and new, untouched experimentation and stuff like that, bioinformatics

04:31:29.080 --> 04:31:33.240
is definitely a wide open field and lots of cool and interesting stuff.

04:31:33.240 --> 04:31:36.060
And I know, yeah, he's gone on and done a lot of study in that.

04:31:38.080 --> 04:31:39.140
And actually, you know what?

04:31:39.200 --> 04:31:40.060
I don't want to skip.

04:31:40.200 --> 04:31:45.720
There's actually one there that I wanted to bring up, 139, episode 139, because we had

04:31:45.720 --> 04:31:47.340
a new co-host on there, DeBeeve.

04:31:47.920 --> 04:31:49.720
Oh, Jim, I completely skipped that episode.

04:31:49.720 --> 04:31:50.040
Yeah.

04:31:50.200 --> 04:31:54.880
Co-authored of the book Hacking Asterisk with some other schmuck.

04:31:54.880 --> 04:31:55.740
Asterisk Hacking.

04:31:56.100 --> 04:31:56.300
Yeah.

04:31:56.540 --> 04:32:01.600
Oh, Asterisk Hacking, but some other schmuck on there, I don't remember that guy, but

04:32:01.600 --> 04:32:01.840
DeBeeve.

04:32:01.840 --> 04:32:03.440
Some of those other Asterisk losers.

04:32:03.680 --> 04:32:04.120
Yeah.

04:32:04.320 --> 04:32:05.980
You know, those guys, what are you going to do?

04:32:06.780 --> 04:32:08.840
Asterisk Hacking from Singres, right?

04:32:10.060 --> 04:32:10.460
Yeah.

04:32:10.540 --> 04:32:13.040
The Asterisk Hacking, well, technically it's not Singres anymore.

04:32:13.180 --> 04:32:14.940
It's L-S-E-V-I-E-R.

04:32:15.280 --> 04:32:15.640
What?

04:32:15.640 --> 04:32:17.080
It's S-E-V-I-E-R.

04:32:17.140 --> 04:32:17.780
They got bought over.

04:32:18.000 --> 04:32:18.860
Oh, I didn't know that.

04:32:19.460 --> 04:32:19.740
Yeah.

04:32:19.740 --> 04:32:21.220
Well, it happened while we were writing the book.

04:32:21.220 --> 04:32:22.000
I dropped my docs now.

04:32:22.760 --> 04:32:24.360
While the book was being written.

04:32:24.360 --> 04:32:27.680
It was, it was, DeBeeve and I came in and wrote the book.

04:32:27.760 --> 04:32:28.980
And it's a good book, so pick it up.

04:32:29.060 --> 04:32:33.660
It should be available at your local mega bookseller there, or it can be available on

04:32:33.660 --> 04:32:34.540
Amazon.com.

04:32:34.760 --> 04:32:38.560
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is called Giving Your Co-Host a Plug.

04:32:39.380 --> 04:32:40.100
Fuck yeah.

04:32:40.240 --> 04:32:43.640
Now, back on to episode 142.

04:32:44.120 --> 04:32:45.480
Is this the one you were talking about?

04:32:45.520 --> 04:32:48.520
Because I think this is the worst show title ever.

04:32:48.600 --> 04:32:49.700
Is this the one you think is your favorite?

04:32:49.700 --> 04:32:50.220
Oh, actually, no.

04:32:50.280 --> 04:32:51.720
We're not done with 139 yet.

04:32:51.840 --> 04:32:52.180
Oh, okay.

04:32:52.180 --> 04:32:57.300
What, what, what, 139 actually is interesting for me because it was something that I always

04:32:57.300 --> 04:32:58.000
played around with.

04:32:58.060 --> 04:32:59.080
It was about honeypots.

04:32:59.440 --> 04:33:03.880
And we talked about, like, Honeybee and user-mode Linux and running honeypots with VMware.

04:33:03.880 --> 04:33:09.200
And the interesting part now is I really didn't, I played with this while I was, you know,

04:33:09.260 --> 04:33:10.100
just a little hobby thing.

04:33:10.360 --> 04:33:13.820
And now my job actually is currently one of my major projects in it.

04:33:13.880 --> 04:33:16.020
And I got to give credit where credit is due.

04:33:16.140 --> 04:33:20.500
I mean, this is something that people always talk about where, you know, oh, you know,

04:33:20.580 --> 04:33:23.840
you learn these things on Big Red Radio and, you know, they're fun, but you never actually

04:33:23.840 --> 04:33:25.180
have any real world application to it.

04:33:25.180 --> 04:33:27.360
This is something that had a real world application with it.

04:33:27.900 --> 04:33:31.420
And, you know, hey, it could help me get my job because they were talking about it.

04:33:31.420 --> 04:33:33.340
And I was like, oh, yeah, I know all that stuff.

04:33:33.680 --> 04:33:38.260
And sure, I mean, I got involved with it before the episode even, you know, I got it way before

04:33:38.260 --> 04:33:39.400
the episode started.

04:33:39.900 --> 04:33:43.540
But, you know, you never know, that could happen to you.

04:33:43.540 --> 04:33:46.300
You could have learned something on BINREV and you could actually turn it into something

04:33:46.300 --> 04:33:51.980
that's going to have a real world, you know, bring back, getting to you, being flown, you know,

04:33:52.020 --> 04:33:54.220
maybe something getting dropped in your offshore Cayman Islands.

04:33:54.340 --> 04:33:55.300
It's not too much.

04:33:55.640 --> 04:33:55.740
Yep.

04:33:56.740 --> 04:33:58.660
No, I mean, you know, I really hope that happens.

04:33:58.760 --> 04:33:59.760
I really, that was the goal.

04:33:59.840 --> 04:34:00.780
I want people to learn.

04:34:00.940 --> 04:34:04.960
Even if you don't necessarily apply it to a job or you used to get a job or anything,

04:34:05.240 --> 04:34:09.080
at least expand your knowledge on a lot of these subjects and make you a little bit more

04:34:09.080 --> 04:34:13.140
knowledgeable from the Department of Redundancy Department.

04:34:13.540 --> 04:34:15.400
about the topics at hand.

04:34:16.480 --> 04:34:20.520
So, and I can't believe we never actually did an episode on Honeypots before that.

04:34:20.680 --> 04:34:21.880
It took us 139 episodes.

04:34:21.880 --> 04:34:23.100
You're not neat like me.

04:34:23.500 --> 04:34:24.080
I guess.

04:34:24.440 --> 04:34:24.780
I guess.

04:34:24.780 --> 04:34:25.220
Yeah, totally.

04:34:25.400 --> 04:34:28.500
It took two published authors to come up with that one.

04:34:29.720 --> 04:34:32.280
This was when the book was just a glimmer in our eye.

04:34:32.700 --> 04:34:34.360
Yeah, okay.

04:34:34.920 --> 04:34:38.600
This was like one of the first times I actually talked to B, like, actually, like, you know,

04:34:38.600 --> 04:34:40.380
talked to him before the episode.

04:34:40.380 --> 04:34:42.880
And that was actually, and that's what kind of came from it.

04:34:42.880 --> 04:34:44.380
It goes, you know, Beave knows the shit.

04:34:44.480 --> 04:34:45.260
Beave has shouts to Beave.

04:34:45.500 --> 04:34:47.680
We're not doing shouts yet, but still, whatever.

04:34:48.620 --> 04:34:49.920
Getting on to 142.

04:34:49.980 --> 04:34:51.100
Now, you don't like this.

04:34:51.320 --> 04:34:55.900
I mean, it basically describes what the job is.

04:34:56.220 --> 04:34:57.560
But it's so low ground.

04:34:57.560 --> 04:34:58.680
It's like sewer repair.

04:34:58.680 --> 04:35:06.360
Oh, it's just so lowest common denominator, even more so than I, and I'm not one to talk.

04:35:07.080 --> 04:35:10.240
But even for me, it just, I don't know.

04:35:10.320 --> 04:35:14.180
It doesn't, it's not polite conversation.

04:35:14.960 --> 04:35:15.620
Man, man, man.

04:35:15.680 --> 04:35:17.860
We don't have polite conversation.

04:35:17.860 --> 04:35:21.360
I know, I know, but it just feels weird to say it.

04:35:21.360 --> 04:35:25.580
Because some people don't get that, and you have to explain to them the relevance of the term.

04:35:26.200 --> 04:35:30.620
Well, I mean, because it's something that, I mean, from the people that I've told it to

04:35:30.620 --> 04:35:35.860
who actually know what is involved, they've always been very, yeah, that's what it is, really.

04:35:36.600 --> 04:35:38.280
Well, why don't you explain the term?

04:35:39.240 --> 04:35:39.780
Go ahead.

04:35:39.920 --> 04:35:41.660
I said, why don't you explain the term, then?

04:35:41.660 --> 04:35:46.040
Yeah, yeah, just mopping is a term that I came up with to basically describe the process.

04:35:46.520 --> 04:35:51.440
You know, you have your aunt coming into your thing, carrying her computer under her arm,

04:35:51.500 --> 04:35:52.240
and you're like, oh, shit.

04:35:52.760 --> 04:35:55.840
But it's infected, you know, she's like, it's snow.

04:35:56.220 --> 04:35:57.940
And it's, sure enough, you boot it up.

04:35:58.020 --> 04:36:02.760
Yeah, yeah, you look at it, and it's like, you know, bonzy buddy, or some other stuff.

04:36:02.900 --> 04:36:05.440
You know, the naked dancing woman on the bottom of your screen.

04:36:05.700 --> 04:36:05.980
Gator.

04:36:07.040 --> 04:36:08.300
Gator, don't forget Gator.

04:36:08.620 --> 04:36:09.960
Oh, I can't forget Gator.

04:36:10.380 --> 04:36:11.180
Gator's the Zango.

04:36:11.180 --> 04:36:12.120
I think there's another one.

04:36:12.660 --> 04:36:15.020
But it's something like, you know, spyware, malware, viruses.

04:36:15.580 --> 04:36:15.900
Toolbars.

04:36:16.200 --> 04:36:20.360
Basically, you're the person who, well, you don't want to delete that.

04:36:22.900 --> 04:36:25.640
But you're the person who basically has to go in and fix everything.

04:36:26.000 --> 04:36:26.680
And that's what it is.

04:36:26.740 --> 04:36:31.960
I mean, you get all this little crap all shoved into the corners of the computer that doesn't want to come out.

04:36:32.480 --> 04:36:34.020
And it's giz mopping.

04:36:34.160 --> 04:36:34.700
That's what it is.

04:36:34.700 --> 04:36:38.840
It's basically you going in there with a mop and cleaning up all the gums that you don't want to.

04:36:39.340 --> 04:36:41.180
But what is actual giz mopping?

04:36:41.320 --> 04:36:42.480
Some people don't know.

04:36:42.800 --> 04:36:44.900
You've got to use that in polite conversation.

04:36:45.280 --> 04:36:46.820
And your aunt who comes in.

04:36:46.820 --> 04:36:47.460
Yeah, I don't know how to use that in polite conversation.

04:36:47.540 --> 04:36:48.440
It's not a polite word.

04:36:48.680 --> 04:36:50.320
But spin rev radio isn't polite.

04:36:50.400 --> 04:36:53.700
If you don't know what giz mopping is, go red clerks.

04:36:53.700 --> 04:36:56.520
Oh, man.

04:36:56.820 --> 04:36:58.080
I'm not going to let you off of that.

04:36:58.220 --> 04:37:00.560
Explain giz mopping to our audience, Black Ratchet.

04:37:01.760 --> 04:37:02.320
No, no.

04:37:02.320 --> 04:37:03.420
I'm not going to explain that to you.

04:37:03.420 --> 04:37:04.140
You can go do that.

04:37:04.240 --> 04:37:05.340
You're the sicker bird.

04:37:05.980 --> 04:37:07.780
You came up with a title.

04:37:08.100 --> 04:37:10.260
If you can't man up now and explain it.

04:37:10.260 --> 04:37:10.680
Okay, okay.

04:37:10.700 --> 04:37:11.280
Look at this way.

04:37:11.360 --> 04:37:12.100
If you have to clean.

04:37:12.340 --> 04:37:13.040
Look at this way.

04:37:13.100 --> 04:37:13.620
Giz mopping.

04:37:14.140 --> 04:37:18.480
If you know what giz is, just look into something where you have to clean up someone else's.

04:37:19.100 --> 04:37:23.300
Be it in a, you know, any place you could possibly think of.

04:37:24.740 --> 04:37:26.020
Oh, my gosh.

04:37:26.060 --> 04:37:28.180
I think we have reached the sickest of the sick.

04:37:28.260 --> 04:37:29.400
See, that's why I'm clean.

04:37:29.400 --> 04:37:29.620
Oh, yeah, man.

04:37:30.640 --> 04:37:32.180
And I'm going to make you say it.

04:37:32.200 --> 04:37:32.860
That was funny.

04:37:33.020 --> 04:37:33.520
Holy shit.

04:37:34.080 --> 04:37:34.540
Oh, no.

04:37:34.640 --> 04:37:34.980
Hold on.

04:37:35.000 --> 04:37:36.800
I've got to stop laughing or I can't continue the show.

04:37:36.920 --> 04:37:37.760
Screw you guys.

04:37:37.860 --> 04:37:38.340
I'm going home.

04:37:39.000 --> 04:37:41.720
No, actually, 144 is another episode I want to say.

04:37:42.020 --> 04:37:43.900
You know, Stank is useless because he's laughing.

04:37:44.760 --> 04:37:46.740
144 is one I want to talk about.

04:37:46.740 --> 04:37:50.840
I had something up, and for unknown reasons, Strong did not record an episode.

04:37:51.420 --> 04:37:55.080
So I basically came on on a Wednesday and posted it to the members' forum saying,

04:37:55.340 --> 04:37:56.460
I don't know what the hell happened.

04:37:56.520 --> 04:37:57.100
There's no episode.

04:37:57.680 --> 04:38:03.980
And Droops came in and saved the freaking day by recording an episode, like, out of nowhere.

04:38:04.160 --> 04:38:05.640
I think I, like, posted it in the morning.

04:38:06.120 --> 04:38:08.140
And by the evening, he's like, yeah, I have an episode.

04:38:08.260 --> 04:38:09.020
How do I upload it?

04:38:09.480 --> 04:38:11.500
And that's just crazy.

04:38:11.500 --> 04:38:16.260
And, you know, people think and wonder, like, you know, oh, man, I can run a radio show.

04:38:16.340 --> 04:38:18.360
If I'm sure it's easy, just go in there and talk.

04:38:18.860 --> 04:38:19.220
No.

04:38:19.460 --> 04:38:20.600
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

04:38:20.780 --> 04:38:26.400
Try sitting in a room with a microphone and trying to be entertaining and informative for an hour and a half every week.

04:38:26.980 --> 04:38:27.520
By yourself.

04:38:27.700 --> 04:38:28.180
An hour and a half.

04:38:28.180 --> 04:38:29.720
And by yourself.

04:38:29.840 --> 04:38:31.200
He did that episode solo.

04:38:31.940 --> 04:38:34.760
Oh, he did that episode solo, which I never did.

04:38:34.840 --> 04:38:36.320
I mean, you did a couple of solo episodes.

04:38:36.540 --> 04:38:44.280
That's something I never even tried because I would, man, I knew, you know, we've done our fair share of clunkers when I did the episodes.

04:38:44.520 --> 04:38:47.640
But, oh, man, I couldn't even picture doing it all by myself.

04:38:47.640 --> 04:38:52.880
And even with the hour and a half, yeah, okay, it's an hour and a half of actually you talking to the radio.

04:38:53.220 --> 04:39:00.220
But that's more like two hours once you figure in, you know, you just having to warm up and maybe talk to your guest and go over the show notes.

04:39:00.500 --> 04:39:04.500
Probably another half an hour doing the actual writing of the show notes themselves.

04:39:04.940 --> 04:39:07.820
Another, you know, half hour to an hour post-production.

04:39:08.360 --> 04:39:09.620
And plus you have to find out this.

04:39:09.920 --> 04:39:14.720
You have to come up with an idea every week, which was one of the things that I literally, I sucked at.

04:39:14.840 --> 04:39:15.380
I could not.

04:39:15.380 --> 04:39:18.980
That's why you had all these stupid filler shows and clunkers because it was just like.

04:39:20.220 --> 04:39:25.980
Yeah, they, you know, there's the occasional cop-out show that we would wrap in there.

04:39:26.180 --> 04:39:29.300
But, and we could do those flying by the seat of our pants.

04:39:29.400 --> 04:39:32.480
And that happened quite a bit, you know, the live shows could jump to mind.

04:39:33.040 --> 04:39:34.080
Or you just wing it.

04:39:34.140 --> 04:39:38.480
Whatever happens to be going on, you just kind of make it up as you go along.

04:39:38.560 --> 04:39:43.080
Or you have a little bit of a generic, you know what recent news is going on.

04:39:43.080 --> 04:39:47.680
You may know topics that have been discussed in the forums or follow-up emails from previous that you want to go into.

04:39:48.180 --> 04:39:56.020
But to actually sit down with a prepared topic ahead of time, I mean, every episode, every week that we did that,

04:39:56.080 --> 04:40:04.780
where we actually did have a planned episode, was easily, easily a minimum of five-plus hours of work to put out an episode of BinRev Radio.

04:40:04.780 --> 04:40:06.960
I mean, I'm certain we probably averaged that.

04:40:07.040 --> 04:40:11.660
Even with the cop-out episodes or the clunkers, as Ratchet calls them, mixed in,

04:40:11.700 --> 04:40:17.660
we still probably averaged four to five hours of preparation and recording and everything of the show each year.

04:40:18.400 --> 04:40:19.940
So, it definitely was not easy.

04:40:19.940 --> 04:40:24.540
It was literally, I mean, at the minimum, if you just want to do something fine by the seat of your pants,

04:40:24.600 --> 04:40:28.280
it's probably at least three hours of work to get an hour and a half of that episode in.

04:40:28.600 --> 04:40:28.940
Right.

04:40:30.320 --> 04:40:35.640
I mean, and that's with no planning, you know, just you talking about jizz-mobbing if you want.

04:40:37.280 --> 04:40:38.040
Well, and...

04:40:38.040 --> 04:40:39.980
And there was this one time where...

04:40:39.980 --> 04:40:46.280
The other thing is, at this point in time, we still had our perfect attendance record going, you know.

04:40:46.360 --> 04:40:49.260
We still had done weekly shows every single week.

04:40:49.780 --> 04:40:50.640
Now, admittedly...

04:40:50.640 --> 04:40:51.020
More or less.

04:40:51.100 --> 04:40:55.280
I mean, there was a couple of times where we did live episodes, and Strom was like,

04:40:55.280 --> 04:40:59.280
I'll edit it, and then he never edited it, and I think it was a good...

04:40:59.280 --> 04:41:05.100
Probably about a month where the archives weren't updated, and a good majority of the people got their stuff through the archives.

04:41:05.240 --> 04:41:09.220
I mean, we streamed live every week, but, you know, too bad for you folks.

04:41:10.740 --> 04:41:11.560
Yeah, and it's...

04:41:11.560 --> 04:41:17.580
So, while we produced something every week, it was just one of those things where it was...

04:41:17.580 --> 04:41:21.060
We never actually, you know, got it out to the masses, I guess.

04:41:21.220 --> 04:41:24.700
Well, yeah, we had a streaming issue that would happen once in a while,

04:41:24.700 --> 04:41:27.820
but we'd still put it up on a podcast right away, and that's what happened with this one.

04:41:28.540 --> 04:41:30.360
So, but I still...

04:41:30.360 --> 04:41:30.920
We still...

04:41:30.920 --> 04:41:33.620
Even if we missed something like that, we would put it out right away.

04:41:34.760 --> 04:41:36.040
Or, worst case scenario...

04:41:36.040 --> 04:41:36.620
And this happened...

04:41:36.620 --> 04:41:38.440
I think we're going to talk about a few of these coming up.

04:41:38.820 --> 04:41:46.700
Worst case scenario, we'd miss a week, and I still was so insistent that we had to keep that record going with the show count and show numbers

04:41:46.700 --> 04:41:53.700
that if we missed a week, I would make it my mission to do two episodes that following week to make up for it.

04:41:53.740 --> 04:41:55.620
Some back-to-back to keep that record numbers.

04:41:56.380 --> 04:42:01.480
And, oh, gosh, that was hard because, again, the time that goes into each episode, double that.

04:42:01.500 --> 04:42:02.980
You're talking about 12 hours at this point.

04:42:03.080 --> 04:42:05.740
In a matter of a weekend, and it's just...

04:42:05.740 --> 04:42:06.440
It was rough.

04:42:06.600 --> 04:42:07.120
It was rough.

04:42:07.120 --> 04:42:10.960
And, again, time was already at a premium because of real-life stuff going on in both of our lives.

04:42:11.200 --> 04:42:16.120
And, you know, the reason that you had taken over the show for season three, and there were numerous, was...

04:42:16.680 --> 04:42:21.700
You know, the biggest was I had also gotten a new job and moved and packed up my whole life.

04:42:21.820 --> 04:42:27.440
So I wasn't even thinking about it, and that's why, you know, I just thought it was over at the end of season two.

04:42:27.640 --> 04:42:31.240
But, you know, I was willing to come back and do it, but I needed a break.

04:42:31.240 --> 04:42:37.300
You know, I also had that little, I don't know, meltdown or whatever I had where I was just kind of done with the whole community

04:42:37.300 --> 04:42:41.320
and that whole fallout and everything that I went through, and I just needed a break.

04:42:41.520 --> 04:42:42.500
I needed to get away.

04:42:42.700 --> 04:42:46.920
So, you know, it's a lot of work.

04:42:47.000 --> 04:42:47.600
That's all I'm saying.

04:42:48.620 --> 04:42:48.780
Yeah.

04:42:49.720 --> 04:42:50.120
145.

04:42:50.840 --> 04:42:53.560
Another IRC episode, 145, which, again...

04:42:53.560 --> 04:42:54.340
No, 145.

04:42:54.660 --> 04:42:56.720
Well, you keep on saying we did all these IRC episodes.

04:42:56.720 --> 04:43:00.720
I think, you know, Zygmunt did these three episodes on IRC explaining...

04:43:00.720 --> 04:43:01.640
He did a very good...

04:43:01.640 --> 04:43:03.720
I mean, Zygmunt always did really good topics.

04:43:03.860 --> 04:43:05.720
He usually hit them right out of the park.

04:43:07.560 --> 04:43:09.660
And, I mean, he did like...

04:43:09.660 --> 04:43:15.320
We wanted to do one IRC episode because we just set up our own IRC server after being kicked off from Freenode.

04:43:15.620 --> 04:43:16.720
But, anyway...

04:43:16.720 --> 04:43:17.680
Well, no, wait.

04:43:17.720 --> 04:43:18.320
Actually, let's stop.

04:43:18.380 --> 04:43:20.480
There's a back story there that's worth talking about.

04:43:21.740 --> 04:43:23.080
The Freenode...

04:43:23.080 --> 04:43:26.980
See, when we first started on Freenode...

04:43:26.980 --> 04:43:29.360
Well, we first started IRC on Freenode.

04:43:29.360 --> 04:43:32.460
We didn't want to have to deal with setting up our own server and maintaining it.

04:43:32.700 --> 04:43:35.400
And a lot of hosting companies won't allow that anyway.

04:43:37.080 --> 04:43:39.240
So, we decided to use Freenode.

04:43:39.320 --> 04:43:41.700
There was already somewhat of a community built onto there.

04:43:41.780 --> 04:43:43.420
So, we figured we'd jump on there as well.

04:43:44.360 --> 04:43:45.400
Well, as it turns out...

04:43:45.400 --> 04:43:47.760
I guess the short version of the story is...

04:43:47.760 --> 04:43:50.800
We're not very well liked sometimes.

04:43:51.540 --> 04:43:53.200
There are some people who don't like...

04:43:53.200 --> 04:43:53.960
Look at this way.

04:43:54.120 --> 04:43:56.300
This was right around the time...

04:43:56.300 --> 04:44:01.340
And for those of you who know IRC, you'll understand this command.

04:44:01.460 --> 04:44:04.260
DCC send start key logger 0, 0, 0.

04:44:04.660 --> 04:44:06.580
And what essentially this would do is you had...

04:44:06.580 --> 04:44:14.100
If it is you don't know IRC, if you had a badly configured firewall or, like, one of these stupid blue cheapo firewalls you run on your computer,

04:44:14.300 --> 04:44:15.800
it would disconnect your IRC session.

04:44:15.800 --> 04:44:22.400
Now, I will admit, on Pound Bin Rep, myself included, we had a lot of fun with this by just...

04:44:22.400 --> 04:44:26.940
And the amusing part was, every time we'd start talking about it, we'd just, like, start...

04:44:26.940 --> 04:44:35.660
Even if we were just, like, talking about it, it's like, oh, yeah, whenever you sent this command, we'd type it out, unfortunately, stupidly, and...

04:44:35.660 --> 04:44:37.440
Not realizing it was kicking somebody off.

04:44:37.460 --> 04:44:40.500
Not realizing what's going to happen, which we'll talk about in a few seconds.

04:44:40.940 --> 04:44:42.320
We'd just start talking about it.

04:44:42.320 --> 04:44:46.740
And all of a sudden, we noticed, like, you know, people would just start dropping when we'd start talking about it.

04:44:46.760 --> 04:44:49.580
And we're like, oh, crap, it's actually causing a problem on them.

04:44:49.980 --> 04:44:51.700
We should start talking about that.

04:44:52.560 --> 04:44:54.060
You know, it's on Pound Bin Rep.

04:44:54.180 --> 04:45:00.580
We still run a very lax channel where, you know, as long as you don't completely ruin the fun for everyone,

04:45:00.720 --> 04:45:03.060
we'll let you get away with a certain amount.

04:45:03.060 --> 04:45:12.100
However, a couple of our users, and they know who they are, decided, oh, geez, let's go randomly sign on to other Freenode channels.

04:45:12.200 --> 04:45:13.020
It's on this command.

04:45:15.560 --> 04:45:17.080
Yeah, they didn't like that.

04:45:17.320 --> 04:45:19.060
And I think we were...

04:45:19.060 --> 04:45:25.720
I was sitting with my wife, then fiance, one Saturday night watching TV, and I just...

04:45:25.720 --> 04:45:29.400
My phone's in the other room, and I had my sidekick at this point, and that was always signed on the name.

04:45:29.400 --> 04:45:32.140
And then I just hear, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, a ton of messages.

04:45:32.560 --> 04:45:34.820
And I'm going, whatever, see, I'll get to them later.

04:45:36.500 --> 04:45:41.620
I get to my computer, I look at all my messages, because I'm signed into both places at the same time.

04:45:41.680 --> 04:45:43.840
So I'm like, you need to get into the IRC channel, you need to get in.

04:45:45.120 --> 04:45:50.320
And I go, I walk in, and I see, you know, this channel has been disbanded by Freenode Management.

04:45:50.960 --> 04:45:55.280
And I find, I scroll back up in the log, and the administrator of...

04:45:55.280 --> 04:45:55.860
Lilo.

04:45:56.700 --> 04:45:58.880
Lilo, God rest his soul.

04:45:59.400 --> 04:46:05.540
Um, he, um, basically came in and said, yeah, you guys have been causing too much trouble, you need to get the fuck out.

04:46:06.320 --> 04:46:11.740
Well, and of course, he, and, you know, with respect to him, he didn't realize, we weren't causing the trouble.

04:46:12.300 --> 04:46:14.880
But a few users, a few bad eggs...

04:46:14.880 --> 04:46:15.940
Sorry, go ahead.

04:46:16.060 --> 04:46:20.720
No, a few bad eggs came in, and were harassing other channels with this, what they thought was funny.

04:46:21.180 --> 04:46:22.980
And they were also idling in bin rep.

04:46:23.580 --> 04:46:27.460
Truth be told, I don't think it was any of our regular IRC users.

04:46:27.460 --> 04:46:29.220
I think it was a couple of them.

04:46:29.220 --> 04:46:30.080
A couple of them, yes.

04:46:30.380 --> 04:46:35.600
However, the problem is, is that apparently we attracted an unattractive element who did not know any of our...

04:46:35.600 --> 04:46:40.940
Um, and they were also attacking us, but using FreeNode's server, so they also didn't like that.

04:46:41.140 --> 04:46:41.280
Right.

04:46:41.280 --> 04:46:46.820
That was the first problem, and we actually had talked to him before about it, because I think it was...

04:46:46.820 --> 04:46:48.760
I don't even know who it was, to be honest with you.

04:46:48.800 --> 04:46:52.080
It was some of those little trolling groups that decided to pick on us.

04:46:52.080 --> 04:46:59.060
Um, and that was the first problem with us, and he talked to us, and I, you know, I apologize for you, and I'm trying to explain.

04:46:59.480 --> 04:47:00.540
We had nothing to do with this.

04:47:00.640 --> 04:47:03.640
We did not educate anything with them, as far as I knew.

04:47:03.700 --> 04:47:04.720
I don't know if someone else did.

04:47:04.980 --> 04:47:07.420
No, and I talked to Lilo on the phone.

04:47:07.520 --> 04:47:11.640
I actually called him, and we talked about it, and he was a very fair, understanding guy and everything,

04:47:11.780 --> 04:47:17.100
and he was just doing what he thought was best for FreeNode and for the server, so I certainly don't blame him for that.

04:47:17.100 --> 04:47:20.340
No, no, very much so. I can't blame him at all for what he did.

04:47:21.440 --> 04:47:22.500
So he was very good.

04:47:22.500 --> 04:47:29.700
But, um, yeah, that's when we set up IRC.inRev.net, and we actually did, like, two episodes on how to set up your own IRC server with Dr. Zegman.

04:47:30.480 --> 04:47:30.720
Yeah.

04:47:32.240 --> 04:47:35.500
Ah, and that's the story of how we got kicked off of yet another network.

04:47:35.780 --> 04:47:37.900
And that's how we got kicked off of FreeNode.

04:47:39.720 --> 04:47:40.480
All by...

04:47:40.480 --> 04:47:44.980
It could have been avoided if those people would have just gone out there and listened to the

04:47:44.980 --> 04:47:47.300
how to not be a moron on the interweb episode.

04:47:48.260 --> 04:47:52.080
Ah, I think it would be one of those times where they could listen all they want and still not have it registered.

04:47:52.920 --> 04:47:54.260
Once a loser, always a loser.

04:47:55.140 --> 04:47:55.420
Mm-hmm.

04:47:55.800 --> 04:47:57.540
One forty-seven.

04:47:57.920 --> 04:47:59.400
Yeah, one forty-seven.

04:47:59.420 --> 04:48:01.260
And God's try, umphent return.

04:48:01.880 --> 04:48:06.280
Yeah, I, and you know, that was the reason I came back was you, my friend.

04:48:06.280 --> 04:48:14.600
That was about the time when you decided to make it official, tie the knot, ball and chain, whatever, uh, cliched, uh, thing you want to call it there, but...

04:48:14.600 --> 04:48:14.840
Yeah.

04:48:14.980 --> 04:48:21.220
...kind of a big life-changing event, so I certainly wasn't about to make you try to do a radio show on your honeymoon or any of that stuff.

04:48:21.860 --> 04:48:21.980
So, yeah.

04:48:21.980 --> 04:48:25.720
Well, that's when one forty-eight would have been during my honeymoon, and I don't think that would have flown very well.

04:48:25.740 --> 04:48:29.300
Yeah, that would not have, yeah, that would have not gone over well at all.

04:48:29.940 --> 04:48:33.600
Could have been great radio, though, but I'm just saying, I'm just throwing that out there.

04:48:34.600 --> 04:48:40.600
Um, so, yeah, I came back in, and you and I did that episode together, and then you were off, so...

04:48:40.600 --> 04:48:44.540
I'm out of here, and actually, I'm very sad to say, I never actually came back.

04:48:44.580 --> 04:48:46.040
This is my first episode that I'm back on.

04:48:46.400 --> 04:48:47.040
Yeah, wow, really?

04:48:47.040 --> 04:48:53.380
I guess, you know, I mean, you know, a lot of people say, oh, you lose all kinds of stuff, but it takes up a good portion of your time when you're...

04:48:53.380 --> 04:48:53.640
Yeah, wow.

04:48:53.640 --> 04:48:55.760
...and I'm, quite frankly, hey, I don't care.

04:48:55.860 --> 04:48:56.600
No, I think you were on it.

04:48:56.600 --> 04:48:57.160
I don't enjoy it.

04:48:57.320 --> 04:48:59.300
I think you were on a couple more after that.

04:48:59.460 --> 04:48:59.820
I...

04:48:59.820 --> 04:49:01.080
I don't think so, was it?

04:49:01.080 --> 04:49:03.600
I don't know for sure, but I bet you were, but...

04:49:03.600 --> 04:49:16.460
But anyway, the other thing is, like, I had taken off this long hiatus and everything, and I came back somewhat re-energized, and, you know, 147 was a good episode back, and doing the show with you after a long time was fun and all.

04:49:16.460 --> 04:49:24.620
But, I think it may surprise a lot of people to hear this, but if I had to pick my very favorite episode, it would be 148.

04:49:25.380 --> 04:49:40.900
You know, I was looking through all these show notes and going back and reminiscing and everything, and I thought to myself, like, what if I had to pick one show to represent BinRev Radio that I thought was the best show, most entertaining, had the most educational value that I...

04:49:40.900 --> 04:49:42.580
And I have to say it was 148 per month.

04:49:42.580 --> 04:49:43.380
Just mopping episode.

04:49:43.720 --> 04:49:45.120
No, no, no, no, just mopping.

04:49:45.140 --> 04:49:45.500
Oh, what?

04:49:45.500 --> 04:49:59.760
148, you know, that was a show with Decius, who had been on the show with me before, who was a great co-host, smart guy, good friend, and the topic was a, you know, it's a dangerous topic.

04:49:59.980 --> 04:50:05.120
This show could have easily been a huge failure, and the topic of the show was Rainbow Tables.

04:50:05.120 --> 04:50:15.020
Now, Rainbow Tables was a fairly hot topic at the time, not to be confused with that store in the mall, but it was a hot topic at the time.

04:50:15.020 --> 04:50:27.920
But Rainbow Tables in and of themselves were, it's not really a difficult concept, these big tables and predetermined so that you could pass, crack passwords faster with them because all the work had already been done ahead of time.

04:50:28.260 --> 04:50:37.420
The topic itself was not that in-depth, and I didn't want to do that as a main topic because, frankly, that was, you know, five to ten minutes.

04:50:38.040 --> 04:50:40.980
I just, I didn't think that was worth a full show.

04:50:41.100 --> 04:50:42.660
Five to ten minutes, and that was it.

04:50:43.080 --> 04:50:52.780
The only way that I could think about doing it would be if we actually explained the how and why and the fundamental design and the reason that Rainbow Tables worked.

04:50:53.300 --> 04:51:00.540
Anybody can download an app, and we could have done a show saying, oh, yeah, download Rainbow Crack or whatever the case may be and run it against you.

04:51:00.540 --> 04:51:08.320
I definitely didn't want to do that because, again, that falls under go out and read a fact or hit a web page or something like that and figure that out on your own.

04:51:08.840 --> 04:51:14.980
I wanted to understand how and why it worked, and I wanted people to understand the fundamentals behind it.

04:51:14.980 --> 04:51:22.040
And I went out and did some research on it just because, once again, I'm a hacker, and I do a lot of research because I find this stuff interesting anyway.

04:51:23.620 --> 04:51:29.740
I'll be frank that the math behind this was just outside of my scope, you know, and I like to think I'm pretty good at math, you know.

04:51:30.020 --> 04:51:34.800
I've had all the calculus, differential equations, et cetera, et cetera, and this was a little tricky.

04:51:34.800 --> 04:51:41.700
So I thought to myself, you know, who could I go and have on the show that could really fill in a lot of this stuff?

04:51:41.700 --> 04:51:53.500
And I found my way back to Decius, and I got him on the phone, and I talked to him about the ideas and, you know, wanting to do the topic but the limitations and the constraints I wanted to put around it.

04:51:54.240 --> 04:51:56.440
And he knew it.

04:51:56.540 --> 04:52:00.680
He was really good at this and started talking about the details, and he knew it.

04:52:00.680 --> 04:52:13.400
And, you know, next thing we know, we've recorded this incredible show where it's one of the ones where I probably learned more on this episode of the show than any show that I've ever done in the history of BinRev Radio.

04:52:13.880 --> 04:52:15.700
Before that and since that.

04:52:15.840 --> 04:52:19.200
That show, to me, I learned more about it.

04:52:20.020 --> 04:52:23.720
And others, I hope others got something out of it as well.

04:52:23.720 --> 04:52:34.980
And, you know, Tom and I, and I'm not dropping docs there, Decius and I were on the phone for like two hours before that show was recorded talking about it, you know, and saying, oh, how cool is it?

04:52:35.000 --> 04:52:44.620
Well, I wonder what happens if you do this, and I wonder if we can make it better by doing that, and actually discussing and having a good, you know, conversation before we even started recording the show.

04:52:44.620 --> 04:52:56.420
And then even after the show was over with, so, I don't know, that was, that to me was probably, no, it definitely was my favorite episode content, you know, all around show that I think we've ever done.

04:52:57.940 --> 04:53:03.200
So, I don't know if others got as much out of it as I did, but if you asked me to pick one, that would be my one.

04:53:04.900 --> 04:53:05.180
Mm-hmm.

04:53:06.160 --> 04:53:07.020
That was a good episode.

04:53:07.180 --> 04:53:07.820
I enjoyed that one.

04:53:07.820 --> 04:53:08.920
I wasn't on it, but I enjoyed it.

04:53:08.960 --> 04:53:10.100
And actually, you were right.

04:53:10.140 --> 04:53:12.940
I did come back for another couple episodes, but I'll be saying I'm just going to see you now.

04:53:12.940 --> 04:53:13.860
Yeah, exactly.

04:53:13.860 --> 04:53:16.060
And 149 was another cool episode in my book.

04:53:16.120 --> 04:53:17.800
It was digital forensics, which I thought it is.

04:53:18.300 --> 04:53:18.660
Oh, yeah.

04:53:19.040 --> 04:53:25.420
And, you know, like, Taviz and I had been trying to work out to get him on the show, so we came on and did digital forensics,

04:53:25.580 --> 04:53:31.840
because he had some experience with some tools and stuff, where actually a place that he and I, we both worked for a little while.

04:53:32.900 --> 04:53:35.160
So, he had some information on that.

04:53:35.440 --> 04:53:36.760
And he's a regular in IRC.

04:53:36.840 --> 04:53:41.300
A lot of people knew Taviz from IRC, so, you know, it was only a matter of time before we had him on the show.

04:53:41.300 --> 04:53:52.200
So, IRC, of course, if you don't know, our IRC channel is still hopping and got lots of users on there active, sometimes more than others, but IRC.binrev.net.

04:53:52.280 --> 04:53:52.920
Go check it out.

04:53:53.040 --> 04:53:56.220
Pound the Binrev is the main channel, the official channel.

04:53:56.860 --> 04:53:58.560
It's a little bit like the Wild West out there.

04:53:58.620 --> 04:53:59.540
Don't get offended easily.

04:53:59.620 --> 04:54:01.040
Don't get your feathers ruffled or anything.

04:54:01.040 --> 04:54:06.640
And if you wander outside of Pound Binrev into some of the other channels, yeah, you're on your own there.

04:54:06.740 --> 04:54:07.940
You're not going to get a whole lot of sympathy.

04:54:08.280 --> 04:54:09.400
Hey, stop by in the morning.

04:54:09.560 --> 04:54:13.920
You'll get your daily dose of news and commentary from me, Black Ratchet.

04:54:14.020 --> 04:54:14.440
Oh, great.

04:54:14.440 --> 04:54:23.540
And actually, along with friends, you know, long time, we should have gotten them on the show before, is 151 with Right Coast.

04:54:24.340 --> 04:54:32.600
You know, Right Coast and I, from the BR407 meeting here in Orlando, we'd been talking about old school computing, kind of some retro nostalgia episodes.

04:54:32.600 --> 04:54:36.320
So he and I did that episode talking about some old school stuff.

04:54:36.600 --> 04:54:46.060
For those of us out there, the old folks, the ones going senile, the gray-haired, the old coots like me, that was a fun episode.

04:54:47.400 --> 04:54:58.340
And, again, kind of continuing with that theme, was 152, regular forum member and future forum admin, as it were, and future DDP member, Seal, came on 152

04:54:58.340 --> 04:55:03.060
and talked about his piracy documentary that he just released very successfully, I might add.

04:55:03.560 --> 04:55:04.880
Got lots of attention to that.

04:55:05.020 --> 04:55:12.940
Came out and talked a lot about not only the documentary, it wasn't just a big plug episode, but talking about piracy and several other topics as well.

04:55:13.040 --> 04:55:14.540
Of course, email and all the other stuff we go through.

04:55:14.600 --> 04:55:16.500
So that was another good episode.

04:55:16.760 --> 04:55:19.280
So definitely enjoyed that one.

04:55:21.940 --> 04:55:22.420
154.

04:55:22.620 --> 04:55:26.340
Oh, this was a cop-out episode to the extreme.

04:55:26.340 --> 04:55:27.940
Speaking of cop-outs, yeah.

04:55:28.340 --> 04:55:34.160
Yeah, Sam couldn't do an episode, and I couldn't figure out what topic to do, because, hey, I was married and I was doing other things.

04:55:35.380 --> 04:55:36.240
Like what, Ratchet?

04:55:36.340 --> 04:55:38.340
What other things do married people do?

04:55:38.720 --> 04:55:39.460
Please tell me.

04:55:39.500 --> 04:55:42.140
Oh, I was really doing my job with your mom and man.

04:55:42.760 --> 04:55:43.560
Oh, no.

04:55:44.100 --> 04:55:45.340
I'm not even going there.

04:55:46.860 --> 04:55:49.540
So what I did is I...

04:55:49.540 --> 04:55:50.220
Is your aim off?

04:55:50.480 --> 04:55:51.180
Just saying.

04:55:52.160 --> 04:55:53.540
Yeah, we're not going to talk about it.

04:55:53.540 --> 04:56:03.400
So anyway, right before this episode, there was a small town in Minnesota called Lewina.

04:56:03.580 --> 04:56:05.840
Now, any phone freak knows what Lewina in Minnesota is.

04:56:05.920 --> 04:56:12.200
But for those of you who don't know, as of 99% of you, Lewina was one of the last places...

04:56:12.200 --> 04:56:19.840
Well, okay, it was the last place in the continental United States that had a 2,600-controlled telephone trunk.

04:56:20.340 --> 04:56:24.600
And now, I'm sure 2,600 people actually kind of know what that is.

04:56:24.880 --> 04:56:29.660
Basically, it was the last trunk in the continental United States that you could blue box off of.

04:56:29.660 --> 04:56:34.920
Now, the administrator was very cool over there.

04:56:34.980 --> 04:56:35.780
He had a great guy.

04:56:36.180 --> 04:56:37.260
Essentially, I think...

04:56:37.260 --> 04:56:37.700
Oh, God.

04:56:37.780 --> 04:56:39.200
This was like back in like 2004.

04:56:39.860 --> 04:56:40.680
It was me.

04:56:40.960 --> 04:56:41.660
It was...

04:56:42.360 --> 04:56:44.340
I don't know what he goes by himself now.

04:56:44.440 --> 04:56:45.880
They either blake-ups or hold the phone.

04:56:46.760 --> 04:56:46.960
And...

04:56:46.960 --> 04:56:47.560
Oh, crap.

04:56:47.620 --> 04:56:48.340
Who else was on the phone?

04:56:48.460 --> 04:56:48.800
Cabot.

04:56:49.400 --> 04:56:51.740
And we essentially just said, hey, let's call this guy up.

04:56:52.400 --> 04:56:53.360
And he was...

04:56:53.360 --> 04:56:55.080
Basically, we called up the telephone company.

04:56:55.160 --> 04:56:58.300
And the telephone company was this guy, and it was his home phone.

04:56:58.300 --> 04:57:01.100
And we basically just said, hey, yeah, we're just curious.

04:57:01.280 --> 04:57:01.680
This is...

04:57:01.680 --> 04:57:02.500
You know, we just...

04:57:02.500 --> 04:57:06.660
I asked him my question, and he went on, and we talked about phones for like an hour and a half.

04:57:06.680 --> 04:57:07.480
He is really cool.

04:57:08.040 --> 04:57:12.640
And he also went to asterisk, and what he did was essentially set up this giant voicemail box

04:57:12.640 --> 04:57:18.120
that people could both listen to and leave messages on through the 2,600-controlled trunk.

04:57:18.360 --> 04:57:20.880
And a lot of phone freaks on there.

04:57:21.120 --> 04:57:23.020
I mean, Captain Crunch was on there.

04:57:24.640 --> 04:57:25.700
Bill from New York.

04:57:25.980 --> 04:57:28.020
I think even Evan Burbell was on there.

04:57:28.300 --> 04:57:31.620
And along with a lot of other, you know, bell heads, as they call themselves,

04:57:31.740 --> 04:57:34.020
which are people who are employed by the bell system back in the day.

04:57:34.580 --> 04:57:41.360
And essentially, I downloaded it, and he posted the file online once it was closed off.

04:57:41.400 --> 04:57:47.900
I think it shut off sometime early June 2006, I think.

04:57:48.240 --> 04:57:48.880
I don't know.

04:57:48.880 --> 04:57:53.600
And basically, I just made an episode out of it.

04:57:53.660 --> 04:57:55.660
And it's a very...

04:57:55.660 --> 04:57:56.540
I mean, it's...

04:57:56.540 --> 04:57:57.940
I don't know how people...

04:57:57.940 --> 04:57:59.320
I don't even know how people reacted to it.

04:57:59.380 --> 04:58:00.620
But it was just...

04:58:00.620 --> 04:58:04.200
It's fun to listen to, and it gives you, like, a lot of people were on there who were...

04:58:04.200 --> 04:58:05.820
geek names back in the day.

04:58:06.320 --> 04:58:06.640
Right.

04:58:06.780 --> 04:58:09.120
And it's definitely a part of history.

04:58:09.120 --> 04:58:11.520
It's definitely a part of hacking, freaking history.

04:58:11.760 --> 04:58:16.000
And it's definitely a recording that needs to be kept for posterity and definitely should

04:58:16.000 --> 04:58:17.680
be around on websites here and there.

04:58:18.260 --> 04:58:20.980
It just wasn't an episode of BinRev Radio.

04:58:21.120 --> 04:58:21.680
That's all.

04:58:21.680 --> 04:58:25.900
And there were a couple of new school phone freaks on there.

04:58:28.460 --> 04:58:30.260
Yeah, it definitely wasn't our first choice.

04:58:30.620 --> 04:58:31.480
And I don't know.

04:58:31.540 --> 04:58:33.040
Was that, like, the beginning of the end?

04:58:33.120 --> 04:58:37.540
I mean, is that where we both realized that we had too much stuff going on with our lives?

04:58:38.280 --> 04:58:41.220
I think I've realized that I had too much stuff going on with my lives.

04:58:41.300 --> 04:58:42.220
You were still with your...

04:58:42.220 --> 04:58:43.880
You were still blindly going ahead.

04:58:44.160 --> 04:58:44.760
Well, I...

04:58:44.760 --> 04:58:45.400
I guess.

04:58:45.540 --> 04:58:49.340
Yeah, I guess I was still fresh back rejoining after taking over for you.

04:58:49.340 --> 04:58:51.640
And I still thought maybe I could pull it off again.

04:58:52.660 --> 04:58:54.860
Um, but I kind of...

04:58:54.860 --> 04:58:59.980
I mean, that was really, in retrospect, looking back now, I think that was the beginning of

04:58:59.980 --> 04:59:00.380
the end.

04:59:01.540 --> 04:59:02.740
Um, I...

04:59:02.740 --> 04:59:03.500
It's...

04:59:03.500 --> 04:59:05.480
I could not do it by myself anymore.

04:59:05.620 --> 04:59:11.580
I could not be the one to do a weekly show anymore and needed to split it up with other

04:59:11.580 --> 04:59:13.000
people and...

04:59:13.000 --> 04:59:16.540
Which was great because we did get a lot of new voices, a lot of different people doing

04:59:16.540 --> 04:59:17.640
the shows, which was awesome.

04:59:17.640 --> 04:59:24.060
But it's just, again, hard to do a weekly show and people don't understand and realize

04:59:24.060 --> 04:59:24.320
that.

04:59:24.520 --> 04:59:29.260
And once they tried it and came in and started it, a lot of people realized what they had

04:59:29.260 --> 04:59:32.320
gotten into and they realized that it was more difficult than they thought.

04:59:32.540 --> 04:59:32.820
So...

04:59:32.820 --> 04:59:33.940
Mm-hmm.

04:59:34.100 --> 04:59:35.460
Probably the beginning of the end.

04:59:35.940 --> 04:59:37.860
Um, 156, actually.

04:59:37.940 --> 04:59:40.080
And this was the last episode of season four...

04:59:40.080 --> 04:59:41.180
Or season three, excuse me.

04:59:42.340 --> 04:59:42.740
And...

04:59:42.740 --> 04:59:43.480
Yes.

04:59:43.480 --> 04:59:48.000
And I kind of decided at that point, you know what, I'm getting back into it kind of gung-ho

04:59:48.000 --> 04:59:52.820
here and I'm going to go back and get some of my favorite guests and some of my favorite

04:59:52.820 --> 04:59:56.220
episodes and get some of those people back on the show again.

04:59:56.480 --> 05:00:02.140
And to that end, I had Ilanka back on the show to talk about Wikipedia, which is a topic

05:00:02.140 --> 05:00:04.920
that she was very much into at the time, something that she loved.

05:00:04.920 --> 05:00:11.140
Um, and again, kind of that vein of getting cool people back on the show, or not that

05:00:11.140 --> 05:00:15.320
there weren't cool people on the show, don't get me wrong, but bringing back some of my particular

05:00:15.320 --> 05:00:17.960
favorites and some people I hadn't spoken to or had on in a while.

05:00:19.000 --> 05:00:25.200
And there is actually a funny, I don't know if I say funny backstory right here, but there

05:00:25.200 --> 05:00:27.760
was a lot of fallout from this episode, believe it or not.

05:00:28.080 --> 05:00:33.480
Um, right after this show, we talked about Wikipedia and stuff like that and, you know, somebody

05:00:33.480 --> 05:00:39.500
had created an entry out on Wikipedia for Stank Dog and I mentioned how awkward it was and

05:00:39.500 --> 05:00:43.280
weird and, you know, how I felt, I didn't want to touch it because I felt like that was

05:00:43.280 --> 05:00:46.440
inappropriate, editing your own entry and yada, yada, yada.

05:00:47.040 --> 05:00:51.460
So, anyway, we talked about that along with a lot of other topics in Wikipedia, some good,

05:00:51.560 --> 05:01:00.160
some bad, but I guess people who either, or probably both, didn't like the negative comments

05:01:00.160 --> 05:01:02.940
about Wikipedia, which actually we were pretty positive about it overall.

05:01:03.480 --> 05:01:07.980
Probably more to the point, people who didn't like me, personally, decided that they would

05:01:07.980 --> 05:01:15.220
come out there and, and all the haters attacked in full force, editing my entries and, uh, making

05:01:15.220 --> 05:01:17.520
changes, defacements, et cetera, et cetera.

05:01:17.960 --> 05:01:22.440
Which, you know, to that point, that's all well and good, messing with my entry.

05:01:22.440 --> 05:01:28.960
But, they also went out of their way to mess with the entries of Ilanka and of Decius and

05:01:28.960 --> 05:01:34.300
of Acidus and of any, everybody else who'd been on the show, you know, going out there

05:01:34.300 --> 05:01:37.780
and, and just being a complete moron on the internet.

05:01:37.960 --> 05:01:39.500
Again, they missed that episode, apparently.

05:01:39.500 --> 05:01:45.760
Um, I'm sure these people were not savable, though, I'm pretty sure, but, you know, it

05:01:45.760 --> 05:01:49.220
was one of those things that, the reason, one of the reasons I left the scene and I, the

05:01:49.220 --> 05:01:53.780
kind of the meltdown I alluded to earlier, joked about, was, was, was stuff like this.

05:01:53.820 --> 05:01:58.900
It's like, I don't mind, you know, you can mess up my entry, I don't care, I'm nobody,

05:01:59.040 --> 05:02:01.840
big deal, delete it, joke, that's all well and good.

05:02:02.640 --> 05:02:04.520
Annoying, but fine, knock yourselves out.

05:02:04.560 --> 05:02:08.800
If you want to come at me, come at me, you know, but leave everybody else out of it.

05:02:09.040 --> 05:02:14.740
You know, if you got beef with me, ball up and come to me, you know, don't be a big stinky

05:02:14.740 --> 05:02:21.160
pussy and go attacking other people by association that, you know, probably don't agree with a

05:02:21.160 --> 05:02:21.900
lot of the stuff I say.

05:02:21.960 --> 05:02:25.540
If you have a problem with me, come to me, you know, I'll man up and we'll have it out

05:02:25.540 --> 05:02:30.120
one way or the other, you know, we'll talk about it like adults, we'll yell at each other

05:02:30.120 --> 05:02:34.380
like kids, or I'll knock you the fuck out like a grown man, whatever, just come to me.

05:02:34.700 --> 05:02:39.620
But don't go to other people and mess with them, that's, that's just uncalled for, childish,

05:02:40.720 --> 05:02:42.500
just assholery.

05:02:42.700 --> 05:02:45.040
I think I made that word up on an episode of the show one time.

05:02:45.760 --> 05:02:49.360
It's just assholery and it, it's just kind of ridiculous.

05:02:49.520 --> 05:02:53.120
And you know what, it's actually happening again right now, there's some fucktart out

05:02:53.120 --> 05:02:59.640
there right now, as we're recording episode 200, who has, who went out and wrote all this

05:02:59.640 --> 05:03:05.480
crap about how terrible I am and how dare I have a Wikipedia entry and not him and marked

05:03:05.480 --> 05:03:07.340
me for deletion and stuff like that.

05:03:07.860 --> 05:03:12.020
Now the vote for deletion failed, I guess is the proper word.

05:03:12.080 --> 05:03:16.420
They decided to keep it because of a pathetic vote of three to one.

05:03:16.520 --> 05:03:21.520
I had three people stand up in my defense against the guy, so it kept the thing out there, which

05:03:21.520 --> 05:03:28.840
was a little disappointing, but since he lost, since he lost his fight, or lost his request

05:03:28.840 --> 05:03:33.060
to delete me, he's decided, okay, what he's going to do now is, and he, and he pretty much

05:03:33.060 --> 05:03:37.500
admits this out in his, in his comments, but there's, there's no Wikipedia police, nobody

05:03:37.500 --> 05:03:42.080
can stop, you know, that's the, that's the failure of Wikipedia, unfortunately, is its

05:03:42.080 --> 05:03:42.680
greatest success.

05:03:42.700 --> 05:03:43.420
Well, okay, let's not get into that.

05:03:43.740 --> 05:03:45.660
Well, well, hold on, we, we can get into that.

05:03:45.740 --> 05:03:48.880
Let me, let me finish this and then we'll come back to that because that's certainly,

05:03:48.880 --> 05:03:53.540
the, the great success of Wikipedia is the great failure of Wikipedia, but yeah, we'll

05:03:53.540 --> 05:04:00.060
come back to that in a second, but there's nobody to stop one asshole from going out there

05:04:00.060 --> 05:04:01.740
and being a complete dick.

05:04:02.280 --> 05:04:04.820
There, there isn't, and that's basically what's going on with this.

05:04:04.940 --> 05:04:09.900
There's, you know, he, basically what this guy is doing now is going out there and trimming

05:04:09.900 --> 05:04:14.660
back everything out of the entry, which was already, had been graded and people had put

05:04:14.660 --> 05:04:16.900
work into putting it up there, which I certainly appreciate.

05:04:16.900 --> 05:04:20.160
You know, it doesn't hurt my feelings if it does get deleted, but I appreciate that someone

05:04:20.160 --> 05:04:23.520
put it out there and respected it enough to, to treat it well.

05:04:24.580 --> 05:04:28.000
This guy has come along and since it didn't get deleted, now he's got his panties in a

05:04:28.000 --> 05:04:32.020
bunch and he's deleting chunks of it that he says are inappropriate and don't fit and

05:04:32.020 --> 05:04:32.920
shouldn't be on there.

05:04:33.160 --> 05:04:36.980
And he's even rechanged, he's changed it now so that the entry isn't under thank dog.

05:04:37.040 --> 05:04:42.020
It's under my real name, which certainly is not a big secret, but has moved it over to

05:04:42.020 --> 05:04:42.680
my real name.

05:04:42.680 --> 05:04:46.900
Well, no, my real name, I'm not notable, you know, why would you do that?

05:04:46.980 --> 05:04:52.020
And his goal, obviously, is to cut it out until there's nothing left and then mark it

05:04:52.020 --> 05:04:55.200
for deletion again, which he stated in his, that he's going to do that.

05:04:55.560 --> 05:04:58.580
And there's nothing that anybody can really do about that.

05:04:58.800 --> 05:05:01.860
There's, hell, there was only three people that were even willing to stand up and vote

05:05:01.860 --> 05:05:04.040
to keep the entry in the first place.

05:05:04.040 --> 05:05:08.780
So, you know, that's the kind of stuff that bothered me when I stepped out of the scene

05:05:08.780 --> 05:05:09.460
the first time.

05:05:09.540 --> 05:05:13.860
It's like, there's bucktards out there in the world, there always will be, and I realize

05:05:13.860 --> 05:05:16.620
this, there's no, you know, there's nothing you can really do about it.

05:05:16.940 --> 05:05:19.800
But what's frustrating to me is when no one stands up for the rest of us.

05:05:20.540 --> 05:05:22.400
You know, that's the stuff that frustrates me.

05:05:22.500 --> 05:05:26.100
So my entry is probably going to end up getting trimmed out and deleted and marked for deletion

05:05:26.100 --> 05:05:28.240
and voted against and all that kind of stuff.

05:05:28.240 --> 05:05:29.920
And, you know, that's, that's fine.

05:05:29.980 --> 05:05:30.940
That's all well and good.

05:05:31.020 --> 05:05:35.120
But the person's, the same person has also gone out there and questioned Alonka.

05:05:35.360 --> 05:05:42.140
I mean, if anybody's to claim she's not notable or qualified and going out and attacking other

05:05:42.140 --> 05:05:46.280
people, it's like, you know, come to me, come to me, deal with me.

05:05:46.400 --> 05:05:47.400
Man, who is this asshole?

05:05:47.640 --> 05:05:48.320
I don't know.

05:05:48.360 --> 05:05:52.580
I know, but I'm not, I've already gotten, dropped, gotten his docks on Wikipedia.

05:05:52.800 --> 05:05:53.960
Let's go drop some ducks here.

05:05:53.960 --> 05:05:55.780
Your name is PQBF.

05:05:55.780 --> 05:05:59.060
I wasn't going to go there, but, you know.

05:05:59.160 --> 05:06:02.340
Oh, I mean, we're going out with a bang.

05:06:02.520 --> 05:06:04.100
Well, it's, yeah, I guess, why not?

05:06:04.260 --> 05:06:05.240
The guy's a cock tart.

05:06:05.360 --> 05:06:06.540
I don't know what to say about it.

05:06:07.040 --> 05:06:08.700
Actually, the thing is, I went out.

05:06:09.080 --> 05:06:09.440
Cryptography.

05:06:09.680 --> 05:06:12.760
Yeah, I went out and he drops his docks on there, too.

05:06:12.860 --> 05:06:15.320
But I went out and did some research on the guy and looked him up.

05:06:15.440 --> 05:06:17.800
The thing is, he actually seems to be a pretty bright guy.

05:06:17.900 --> 05:06:18.900
That's the sad thing.

05:06:19.000 --> 05:06:23.500
We've had people in IRC, which we won't mention by name either, but we've had people in the

05:06:23.500 --> 05:06:26.780
past in the forums and IRC that are actually pretty smart people.

05:06:27.060 --> 05:06:30.080
If they would just get their cock out of their ass.

05:06:33.020 --> 05:06:33.380
Okay.

05:06:33.860 --> 05:06:37.500
If this also comes back, and I guess maybe you were disagreeing with me, or I don't know

05:06:37.500 --> 05:06:41.540
if we're going to go into a debate about this, but the whole Wikipedia, I'm sorry, I'm an

05:06:41.540 --> 05:06:42.240
inclusionist.

05:06:42.640 --> 05:06:43.700
And I just...

05:06:43.700 --> 05:06:44.280
Exactly.

05:06:44.280 --> 05:06:46.740
And he's a deletionist, and it's very clear.

05:06:47.220 --> 05:06:48.360
These are bits and bytes.

05:06:48.580 --> 05:06:50.300
I don't think anything...

05:06:50.300 --> 05:06:51.820
I mean, obviously, there are certain exceptions.

05:06:52.080 --> 05:06:54.340
Not every random Joe Schmo should be out there.

05:06:54.380 --> 05:06:56.900
And maybe I am a random Joe Schmo and don't deserve to be out there.

05:06:57.280 --> 05:06:58.260
But these are bits.

05:06:58.840 --> 05:07:00.040
These are bits and bytes.

05:07:00.160 --> 05:07:01.740
These are a little bit of text and data.

05:07:02.400 --> 05:07:02.660
You know?

05:07:02.800 --> 05:07:06.780
And it's like, I think he made the statement out there of how, you know, I'm not going to

05:07:06.780 --> 05:07:08.140
be notable in 10 years.

05:07:08.280 --> 05:07:10.900
No one's going to know who I am, which is probably true.

05:07:10.900 --> 05:07:13.880
But, A, that's kind of rude to throw...

05:07:13.880 --> 05:07:15.680
I didn't ask you to be roasted, you know?

05:07:15.720 --> 05:07:18.040
I don't deserve to be attacked for no damn good reason.

05:07:18.440 --> 05:07:21.640
That's kind of rude to say out of the blue for somebody, you know?

05:07:22.100 --> 05:07:25.020
Be a little bit more respectful, I guess, when you post that kind of stuff.

05:07:25.120 --> 05:07:27.620
I didn't ask to be flamed by this guy, so fuck him.

05:07:28.500 --> 05:07:34.020
But, um, not only that, I mean, he also goes on and he drops kind of...

05:07:34.020 --> 05:07:38.100
If you read between the lines, he says, you know, I've presented that black hat and I

05:07:38.100 --> 05:07:38.820
don't have an entry.

05:07:38.960 --> 05:07:40.420
Well, sucks to be you.

05:07:40.420 --> 05:07:42.040
I don't know what to tell you, you know?

05:07:42.900 --> 05:07:44.260
Apparently no one likes yourself.

05:07:44.560 --> 05:07:48.880
It's a whole thing about deletionist versus inclusionist and he believes...

05:07:48.880 --> 05:07:50.940
You know, it's like, I don't understand the mindset.

05:07:51.960 --> 05:07:57.660
The time that you're spending cutting other people down, insulting me, without provocation,

05:07:57.740 --> 05:08:00.060
I don't know this guy from Adam, I've never seen or heard him before.

05:08:00.420 --> 05:08:04.600
The time that you're spending cutting me down and insulting me and tearing down this

05:08:04.600 --> 05:08:09.420
and removing information, you could have gone in and created a bunch of other entries

05:08:09.420 --> 05:08:10.240
out there that are missing.

05:08:10.340 --> 05:08:13.040
Create your own if it's needed out there, I guess.

05:08:13.100 --> 05:08:16.220
Or, he says, you know, he compares a bunch of other people that don't have entries.

05:08:16.340 --> 05:08:17.800
Well, that doesn't justify deleting.

05:08:18.340 --> 05:08:22.640
That justifies you adding those other entries instead of going out and deleting stuff.

05:08:22.640 --> 05:08:25.100
You know, I may not be...

05:08:25.100 --> 05:08:27.220
In ten years from now, I may be a complete kook.

05:08:27.840 --> 05:08:29.800
I most certainly probably will be.

05:08:30.180 --> 05:08:31.320
You know, but what if somebody...

05:08:31.320 --> 05:08:31.800
Wait, you are now?

05:08:32.200 --> 05:08:33.200
Well, yes, I am.

05:08:33.240 --> 05:08:37.600
But what if somebody ten years from now is doing a report for school on the biggest internet

05:08:37.600 --> 05:08:40.420
kooks of 2007?

05:08:40.880 --> 05:08:46.060
You know, what if somebody's doing, you know, the fucktard roll call of 2005 or something

05:08:46.060 --> 05:08:47.420
like that, and this guy's stank off?

05:08:48.060 --> 05:08:52.740
If people like these deletionists get away with that, that information's gone forever.

05:08:53.780 --> 05:08:54.540
And when it's...

05:08:54.540 --> 05:08:56.580
You know, it's not like it's a printed encyclopedia.

05:08:56.680 --> 05:08:58.780
The whole point is...

05:08:58.780 --> 05:08:59.480
You know what?

05:08:59.540 --> 05:08:59.800
Fuck it.

05:08:59.800 --> 05:09:04.700
I'm ending this topic because this show is already horribly long, and I'm ranting.

05:09:04.720 --> 05:09:06.100
Oh, let's just look on the bright side.

05:09:06.160 --> 05:09:08.680
We got you in one season, only an hour and 37 minutes.

05:09:08.680 --> 05:09:09.120
Exactly.

05:09:10.820 --> 05:09:13.880
An hour and 36 and 15, and we still got another season to go.

05:09:14.040 --> 05:09:15.360
Well, let's pick a...

05:09:15.360 --> 05:09:17.720
Do we want to plow through these, or do we want to actually start...

05:09:17.720 --> 05:09:21.180
Do we just want to try to plow through them, or should we actually try to give them the

05:09:21.180 --> 05:09:22.040
attention they deserve?

05:09:22.240 --> 05:09:25.420
Let's give them what they deserve, but I think we can go through these quicker, a little bit

05:09:25.420 --> 05:09:25.700
quicker.

05:09:27.300 --> 05:09:28.400
Well, 158...

05:09:28.400 --> 05:09:29.580
158 was the first.

05:09:29.740 --> 05:09:30.140
We had the...

05:09:30.140 --> 05:09:30.760
157.

05:09:30.920 --> 05:09:32.580
I'm sorry, not 158, 157.

05:09:32.780 --> 05:09:33.040
Right.

05:09:34.040 --> 05:09:37.120
This was all of us at Hook 6, which was really cool.

05:09:37.460 --> 05:09:37.780
Right.

05:09:37.780 --> 05:09:45.140
It was basically, it was me, Naz, you, not theory, MC Funwa, which was our special guest.

05:09:45.320 --> 05:09:45.620
Right.

05:09:45.640 --> 05:09:46.840
Our special co-host, I guess.

05:09:47.340 --> 05:09:48.060
Who else was there?

05:09:48.460 --> 05:09:49.460
Well, you know what?

05:09:49.500 --> 05:09:51.040
Like, everybody got a little bit of time.

05:09:51.120 --> 05:09:52.740
I tried to get everybody on the show.

05:09:52.860 --> 05:09:58.780
The thing about it is, I think I described it and said we did this Laverne and Shirley

05:09:58.780 --> 05:10:01.520
style that we recorded it in front of a live studio audience.

05:10:02.420 --> 05:10:07.580
Well, I mean, I'm not trying to knock you, but it was like mostly you doing the talking,

05:10:07.580 --> 05:10:12.440
and I think for me, I think mostly what I do is I just made some nice comments, which

05:10:12.440 --> 05:10:13.060
I do very well.

05:10:13.120 --> 05:10:13.480
I like that.

05:10:14.040 --> 05:10:19.860
Well, you know, and the problem, the reason for that is because we were completely unprepared.

05:10:20.600 --> 05:10:21.140
Let's be honest.

05:10:21.360 --> 05:10:22.600
This was just completely winged.

05:10:22.660 --> 05:10:26.660
Yeah, we, you know, out of all the jokes and all the show novels that I write, and my

05:10:26.660 --> 05:10:28.680
God, you should see the one for episode 200.

05:10:29.080 --> 05:10:33.160
But for all the show novels that I've written over the years, here we come going in with

05:10:33.160 --> 05:10:35.720
the first episode of season four with nothing.

05:10:36.280 --> 05:10:37.280
And I mean nothing.

05:10:37.380 --> 05:10:39.000
I had no clue what we were going to talk about.

05:10:39.100 --> 05:10:44.660
I didn't, I went just before the show and said, hey, Ratchet, can you come up on stage?

05:10:45.560 --> 05:10:46.940
You know, we didn't have anything.

05:10:47.080 --> 05:10:48.800
We knew we were going to do this, but we just didn't know.

05:10:48.860 --> 05:10:51.640
We were like, well, we don't know who's going to be there, or if people are going to show

05:10:51.640 --> 05:10:58.020
up, or, and, and, I mean, we did like, I think we did about half of the room, and we

05:10:58.020 --> 05:11:04.140
were doing, I think the interesting part is, is despite, you know, we were going up against

05:11:04.140 --> 05:11:09.500
one of, like, one of their, one of the hoax, major, major events, they were really pushing

05:11:09.500 --> 05:11:09.620
it.

05:11:09.680 --> 05:11:11.920
Was, what, was this like the Hacker Comedians or something?

05:11:12.060 --> 05:11:15.620
I think so, but I think we were getting, we were listening through the wall, like every

05:11:15.620 --> 05:11:18.620
once in a while we'd hear a laugh, but we were getting, we were generating a whole lot

05:11:18.620 --> 05:11:19.920
more laughs than they were.

05:11:20.700 --> 05:11:24.420
Yeah, well, the funny part is, is people started trickling in from the other thing.

05:11:24.540 --> 05:11:27.120
It was sort of, and like, I was asking them, oh, how was that?

05:11:27.340 --> 05:11:27.900
That sucked.

05:11:28.480 --> 05:11:29.800
I'm like, oh, and we didn't.

05:11:29.900 --> 05:11:31.160
Okay, well, I guess it's a good thing.

05:11:31.160 --> 05:11:36.440
It's good that we got lazy and aired that for the first, for the episode of When We

05:11:36.440 --> 05:11:36.940
Got Back.

05:11:37.720 --> 05:11:37.920
Mm-hmm.

05:11:38.160 --> 05:11:42.520
And actually, it was, it was really cool because for me, this was the first time I heard the

05:11:42.520 --> 05:11:43.600
Deadly Halon story.

05:11:43.960 --> 05:11:47.180
I had, I always had the sound clip of the Deadly Halon.

05:11:47.320 --> 05:11:49.860
I had no idea what the hell the story was about.

05:11:49.980 --> 05:11:50.080
Yeah.

05:11:50.080 --> 05:11:51.460
And I got to say, that was, that was one of your consequences.

05:11:51.640 --> 05:11:51.800
Yeah.

05:11:51.800 --> 05:11:54.860
If you haven't heard the Deadly Halon story, I don't know what the original episode was,

05:11:54.900 --> 05:11:56.180
but listen to episode 158.

05:11:56.360 --> 05:11:57.960
Yeah, it was 157.

05:11:59.240 --> 05:11:59.900
Oh, 157.

05:11:59.900 --> 05:12:01.260
Man, I'm not going to want to see it.

05:12:01.460 --> 05:12:02.900
I need to scroll down on my show notes.

05:12:03.000 --> 05:12:04.500
The original was probably the best.

05:12:04.620 --> 05:12:05.180
I don't remember.

05:12:05.560 --> 05:12:11.020
But, yeah, it's always a fun story, and it's just, well, and again, it goes back, this was

05:12:11.020 --> 05:12:14.540
our, unfortunately, a bad time to have a cop-out episode.

05:12:14.680 --> 05:12:15.380
We weren't prepared.

05:12:15.480 --> 05:12:16.300
We didn't have the topic.

05:12:16.460 --> 05:12:21.280
It was, the only thing that was slightly prepared is that we did get MC Frontalot.

05:12:21.280 --> 05:12:25.240
We were planning to have him on the show, and I feel really bad that, you know, not only

05:12:25.240 --> 05:12:28.940
did I slight you guys by just going off ranting, because I didn't know what to talk about,

05:12:29.000 --> 05:12:30.660
so I was just BSing my way along.

05:12:31.220 --> 05:12:35.300
You know, I couldn't be able to, you could have jumped in any time and just knocked me

05:12:35.300 --> 05:12:35.500
down.

05:12:35.500 --> 05:12:38.980
I would have probably yielded gladly to catch my breath.

05:12:39.520 --> 05:12:41.000
I remember sweating horribly.

05:12:41.160 --> 05:12:41.940
I mean, I was getting knocked up.

05:12:41.940 --> 05:12:44.340
What makes you think we knew what the fuck we were doing?

05:12:44.580 --> 05:12:46.540
Well, I was running all over stage.

05:12:46.640 --> 05:12:47.360
I was so excited.

05:12:47.460 --> 05:12:49.120
I had a great time, if it's any consolation.

05:12:49.220 --> 05:12:49.840
It was fun for me.

05:12:49.940 --> 05:12:50.640
Fuck everybody else.

05:12:50.640 --> 05:12:56.660
I've got to admit, for as much as we were flying by the seat of our pants, it just clicked.

05:12:57.320 --> 05:12:58.140
Everyone was there.

05:12:58.340 --> 05:12:59.580
They knew what was going on.

05:12:59.640 --> 05:13:03.380
It was all people that we all liked, and they all liked us, and I think they were just thrilled

05:13:03.380 --> 05:13:05.740
that we were doing an episode in front of them, which was really weird.

05:13:05.920 --> 05:13:08.280
Probably not all of them.

05:13:08.280 --> 05:13:09.580
I don't actually want to have that happen.

05:13:09.680 --> 05:13:14.740
I actually got inquiries from TITMO trying to get us down for torture devices, but turn

05:13:14.740 --> 05:13:15.180
that down.

05:13:15.280 --> 05:13:17.900
I'm betting not all of them liked us or the show.

05:13:17.900 --> 05:13:22.300
So, but yeah, I really felt the worst for MC Frontline.

05:13:22.380 --> 05:13:23.800
I should have had better questions prepared.

05:13:23.920 --> 05:13:28.780
I'd been wanting to get him on a show anyway, and he and I, we talked.

05:13:28.880 --> 05:13:31.360
We're kind of friends anyway, and I talked to him.

05:13:31.420 --> 05:13:35.280
He was scheduled to have a concert to come down that Sunday, actually.

05:13:35.280 --> 05:13:39.480
He thought I was leaving Sunday night, or yeah, either Sunday or Monday, and he scheduled

05:13:39.480 --> 05:13:43.360
a concert Sunday evening, thinking that I could make it, and I wasn't able to make it

05:13:43.360 --> 05:13:44.880
because my flight left Sunday evening.

05:13:44.880 --> 05:13:48.540
So, I didn't even get to see the concert, but he scheduled a concert in New York to make

05:13:48.540 --> 05:13:49.600
the trip worth his while.

05:13:49.920 --> 05:13:50.720
We set up down.

05:13:50.780 --> 05:13:54.880
We had a booth reserved, so we set up down there and hawked some merchandise, some MC Frontline

05:13:54.880 --> 05:14:00.180
stuff to make it more worthwhile for the trip to get him down there and doing the show.

05:14:00.360 --> 05:14:02.440
And we were filming a, or I shouldn't say we.

05:14:02.520 --> 05:14:03.320
I had nothing to do with it.

05:14:03.320 --> 05:14:06.180
They were filming a documentary, Nerdcore Rising.

05:14:06.860 --> 05:14:08.880
So, he had a camera crew there, so we were able to...

05:14:09.520 --> 05:14:10.760
Oh, I completely forgot about that.

05:14:10.760 --> 05:14:14.040
Yeah, we did some interviews with them, which would probably end up on the cutting room

05:14:14.040 --> 05:14:15.760
floor, but...

05:14:15.760 --> 05:14:18.080
I wonder if actually it ever got onto that thing.

05:14:18.240 --> 05:14:24.540
Like, I did have to sign a waiver because they were recording during the radio show, and

05:14:24.540 --> 05:14:27.000
they probably got me, I'm probably like, you know, swiping by.

05:14:27.060 --> 05:14:28.800
I'm actually curious whether or not I made it on there.

05:14:29.040 --> 05:14:29.840
Yeah, who knows?

05:14:29.840 --> 05:14:31.920
We probably all end up on the cutting room floor.

05:14:32.260 --> 05:14:32.760
It was such a bad...

05:14:32.760 --> 05:14:34.020
I had that to my resume.

05:14:34.140 --> 05:14:37.380
I was featured on Nerdcore Rising, and yes, I was on Church and Frames.

05:14:37.380 --> 05:14:43.780
The actual performance itself, I kept...

05:14:43.780 --> 05:14:48.780
My microphone, I guess I was breathing, and it was messing up the beat, and he had his

05:14:48.780 --> 05:14:53.700
DJ CPU, the little toy device there, dropping the beat, and you couldn't really hear it.

05:14:53.760 --> 05:14:58.580
The sound system was not set up for rapping or for a concert or anything like that, and

05:14:58.580 --> 05:15:00.960
he couldn't hold the microphone in his hands.

05:15:01.020 --> 05:15:05.240
He was trying to lean over the desk, and it was just a disaster, which was completely my

05:15:05.240 --> 05:15:11.180
fault for not being prepared or anything like that, but as it turned out, it didn't really

05:15:11.180 --> 05:15:16.040
matter anyway because the fucking lazy-ass recording team there, they had outsourced

05:15:16.040 --> 05:15:19.920
it to some company to record, and I guess when their first one-hour tape was up, they

05:15:19.920 --> 05:15:21.420
decided not to continue recording.

05:15:21.560 --> 05:15:26.100
Even though we had a one-and-a-half-hour time slot, we had purposely scheduled to be the

05:15:26.100 --> 05:15:29.860
last presentation of the night because we knew that we were going over the normal one-hour

05:15:29.860 --> 05:15:30.280
time.

05:15:30.280 --> 05:15:34.360
They decided to just pack it up and go home and said, fuck you guys, right in the middle

05:15:34.360 --> 05:15:35.660
of MC Frontlot rapping.

05:15:35.760 --> 05:15:36.400
Right in the middle.

05:15:36.620 --> 05:15:37.720
You guys, I'm going home.

05:15:37.780 --> 05:15:39.740
You guys, I'm going home.

05:15:40.580 --> 05:15:42.160
So, yeah, that really pissed me off.

05:15:42.220 --> 05:15:47.900
So, actually, this recording, even the audio and the video, caught right off in the middle

05:15:47.900 --> 05:15:50.740
of that, so, you know, we don't even have the full performance.

05:15:50.860 --> 05:15:55.900
I think the Deadly Halon was on there, and you know what was kind of fun, too, is when I

05:15:55.900 --> 05:16:00.580
present, and I give presentations and talks, I don't, I'm not a stand-behind-the-podium

05:16:00.580 --> 05:16:01.160
kind of guy.

05:16:01.700 --> 05:16:05.780
I like to get out and move, even if it's not, you know, I at least like to walk around on

05:16:05.780 --> 05:16:09.760
the stage and kind of use some hand gestures, make it a little bit more interesting, exciting.

05:16:09.860 --> 05:16:11.020
It's just my nature, I guess.

05:16:11.040 --> 05:16:12.160
Not the way with his middle finger.

05:16:12.720 --> 05:16:15.800
This one, this one, I was out in the audience.

05:16:15.900 --> 05:16:17.400
I was walking up and down the aisles.

05:16:17.400 --> 05:16:22.160
I was running, reenacting the Halon story in full, like, mime style, I guess.

05:16:22.220 --> 05:16:23.860
I was out there reenacting the whole thing.

05:16:24.260 --> 05:16:25.040
I was sweating.

05:16:25.220 --> 05:16:25.820
It was hot.

05:16:25.940 --> 05:16:27.300
All the lights, all the people.

05:16:27.980 --> 05:16:29.640
It was a blast to do.

05:16:30.180 --> 05:16:31.660
It may have sucked to listen to.

05:16:31.900 --> 05:16:33.620
Don't even try to blame it on the lights and the people.

05:16:33.760 --> 05:16:34.700
Yeah, well, maybe.

05:16:34.880 --> 05:16:35.560
I'm big folks.

05:16:36.180 --> 05:16:40.200
But, yeah, it was fun to do, even if it wasn't as fun to listen to afterwards.

05:16:40.200 --> 05:16:44.360
It was a fun episode, and even more fun was the people there, and we all got together

05:16:44.360 --> 05:16:48.600
afterwards because it was a combination of bin rev radio, and afterwards, I mean, even

05:16:48.600 --> 05:16:53.940
after they were supposed to stop taping, we all went out, and we all went to White Castle.

05:16:54.320 --> 05:16:55.300
Oh, I forgot about that.

05:16:55.320 --> 05:16:56.140
That's a good story, yeah.

05:16:56.140 --> 05:16:56.300
Yeah.

05:16:57.280 --> 05:17:01.540
Yeah, well, it was just, it was a lot of fun, and we all got to meet people, and it was very

05:17:01.540 --> 05:17:05.660
weird to have people coming up to me and say, oh, hey, I'm glad to meet you.

05:17:05.720 --> 05:17:07.040
I'm like, I'm just me.

05:17:07.040 --> 05:17:12.060
I'm not a celebrity, but I guess when you're up here and you actually seem like to know what

05:17:12.060 --> 05:17:14.340
the hell you're doing, I guess people want to meet you.

05:17:14.360 --> 05:17:18.500
Well, we fool people into thinking we know what we're doing.

05:17:19.800 --> 05:17:24.860
And the other fun part is, okay, we're going to have the last story about this.

05:17:25.120 --> 05:17:30.220
After White Castle, there were two cool things, and we were harassed by NYPD because we were

05:17:30.220 --> 05:17:35.000
loitering, and, I mean, you were still inside, I think.

05:17:35.000 --> 05:17:35.540
I was eating.

05:17:35.960 --> 05:17:37.420
I was having my cheese fries.

05:17:37.500 --> 05:17:38.180
I wasn't loitering.

05:17:39.220 --> 05:17:42.020
Yeah, you were still eating along with other people, but a lot of other people just went

05:17:42.020 --> 05:17:44.400
outside, and we just, you know, I think a couple of people were smoking cigarettes.

05:17:44.800 --> 05:17:46.660
NYPD came like, you guys got to move.

05:17:47.320 --> 05:17:48.640
Excuse me, what are you guys doing here?

05:17:48.700 --> 05:17:52.000
I'm like, oh, we're going to have a couple of people with friends, and they're, of course,

05:17:52.040 --> 05:17:53.440
they're like being rough and tumble cops.

05:17:54.140 --> 05:17:55.820
And they're like, oh, there's a loitering.

05:17:55.820 --> 05:17:57.460
I'm like, oh, okay, do you want us to move?

05:17:57.760 --> 05:18:01.260
And he basically just said, wait a minute, this isn't how people are supposed to react.

05:18:01.260 --> 05:18:08.720
And I said, oh, yeah, well, we'll just, we'll, I'll send some, we'll make sure that, you know,

05:18:08.760 --> 05:18:10.600
we're going in, if they're going to be some while, we'll get out of here.

05:18:10.660 --> 05:18:11.580
They're like, oh, okay.

05:18:12.340 --> 05:18:16.520
And the other fun part is, before that happened, there was a couple who were changing a tire,

05:18:16.680 --> 05:18:17.940
and we all helped them out.

05:18:18.500 --> 05:18:21.840
And we basically did a nice public service announcement for hackers.

05:18:21.960 --> 05:18:23.840
They're like, oh, yeah, we're at the hacking conference.

05:18:23.900 --> 05:18:27.660
The next time you hear about hackers, remember, a couple of them help you change your tires.

05:18:27.660 --> 05:18:30.200
And I've got to give credit for Savant on that one.

05:18:30.360 --> 05:18:32.100
He's the one who actually was selling that.

05:18:32.800 --> 05:18:34.180
Hackers with helping hands.

05:18:34.360 --> 05:18:34.680
There you go.

05:18:34.680 --> 05:18:36.820
Yeah, hackers without borders.

05:18:37.200 --> 05:18:42.760
And don't forget, yeah, don't forget Bling Bling, our homeless friend in White Castle, too.

05:18:42.780 --> 05:18:43.440
Oh, man.

05:18:43.540 --> 05:18:44.340
He was a fun one.

05:18:44.400 --> 05:18:45.120
He was a good guy.

05:18:45.260 --> 05:18:46.820
We had a good talk with him.

05:18:47.620 --> 05:18:48.940
He was definitely out there.

05:18:50.020 --> 05:18:51.000
And there's good pictures.

05:18:51.000 --> 05:18:51.400
It was cool.

05:18:51.680 --> 05:18:56.920
Yeah, there's quite a few pictures of all of those things in the galleries and in the tubes somewhere.

05:18:56.920 --> 05:18:57.420
I don't know.

05:18:58.280 --> 05:19:00.040
Yeah, I think it's on the BINRAF galleries.

05:19:00.160 --> 05:19:01.020
The BINRAF gallery.

05:19:01.220 --> 05:19:02.180
And, yeah, who knows?

05:19:02.220 --> 05:19:03.880
There's probably some others floating around there, too.

05:19:04.000 --> 05:19:05.880
But I wish people used the gallery more.

05:19:05.960 --> 05:19:08.620
But anyway, next few episodes.

05:19:09.360 --> 05:19:10.980
168 through 161.

05:19:11.080 --> 05:19:17.540
Yeah, these are just a bunch of wrap-up episodes of Hope and DEFCON, which was a week afterwards.

05:19:17.620 --> 05:19:18.280
You went to DEFCON.

05:19:18.280 --> 05:19:21.460
I did the Hope wrap-up with Madison Savant.

05:19:21.880 --> 05:19:23.000
And you went up with DEFCON.

05:19:23.260 --> 05:19:24.340
I don't think you did the wrap-up.

05:19:24.460 --> 05:19:25.240
I forget who did that.

05:19:25.420 --> 05:19:25.980
No, no.

05:19:25.980 --> 05:19:28.440
Verbal and somebody else.

05:19:29.200 --> 05:19:30.880
And Troops Verbal and Upside Down.

05:19:30.980 --> 05:19:32.680
They all did that because they all went out there.

05:19:34.200 --> 05:19:38.780
Because that was the one where I told you, I think I came back early in the morning, red-eye, had to go to work.

05:19:38.780 --> 05:19:40.300
And then when I came home, I crashed.

05:19:40.560 --> 05:19:43.420
And, yeah, so I knew I wasn't going to be able to do the wrap-up show either.

05:19:44.680 --> 05:19:44.960
Yeah.

05:19:45.280 --> 05:19:47.340
The West Coast was doing that.

05:19:48.100 --> 05:19:48.360
Yeah.

05:19:48.820 --> 05:19:50.260
162 and 164.

05:19:50.680 --> 05:19:51.660
What's your 164?

05:19:53.340 --> 05:19:58.040
Yeah, these were, well, a few of, not two of, a few of my favorite episodes.

05:19:58.040 --> 05:20:02.860
Yeah, 162 and 164 both talked about tunneling.

05:20:03.820 --> 05:20:08.560
And believe it or not, that's something we also hadn't, I don't think we'd covered in any detail before.

05:20:09.000 --> 05:20:12.060
But I think Verbal did both of those episodes, if I'm not mistaken.

05:20:12.060 --> 05:20:19.240
And it's not, we talked about tunneling and the application of tunneling.

05:20:19.320 --> 05:20:23.940
And it's actually one of the most frequently asked questions that we see in the forums all the time.

05:20:24.540 --> 05:20:29.120
They don't ask for it specifically by name, but people always asking, how do I access that?

05:20:29.200 --> 05:20:31.180
How do I get past access restrictions?

05:20:31.380 --> 05:20:32.460
How do I get around this?

05:20:32.640 --> 05:20:35.200
And, you know, tunneling is a very common answer to that.

05:20:35.280 --> 05:20:37.620
So we thought that, you know, I like those episodes.

05:20:37.620 --> 05:20:39.800
The other common answer is leapscules.

05:20:39.800 --> 05:20:43.340
Yeah, it's not as leet as it sounds.

05:20:43.480 --> 05:20:44.680
It's pretty simple to do.

05:20:45.140 --> 05:20:48.460
It's just that most people are never, no one ever teaches them or never shows them.

05:20:49.380 --> 05:20:50.860
And actually, yeah, see, that's what it is.

05:20:51.320 --> 05:20:53.240
163 was sandwiched in the middle there.

05:20:53.940 --> 05:20:58.860
It was an episode I did with Quine, which was one of my friends here from the BR-407 meeting,

05:20:59.220 --> 05:21:01.540
who actually, as I said earlier, moved up there to Boston.

05:21:02.080 --> 05:21:07.140
But this was an interesting show because we actually did this show physically in my house.

05:21:07.140 --> 05:21:09.500
We were actually in my computer room back here.

05:21:10.460 --> 05:21:11.920
And it was really kind of funny.

05:21:12.080 --> 05:21:19.060
First of all, it was the first time I'd ever recorded with anybody in the same room and not over the phone or at an event or something like that.

05:21:19.200 --> 05:21:24.380
So that made it really awkward because, as I said before, I'm old school.

05:21:24.520 --> 05:21:27.600
I got the lab tech microphone and the speakerphone and all that kind of stuff.

05:21:27.600 --> 05:21:40.260
So it was really weird and probably funny visually if we were to take a video of it of us kind of taking turns, leaning into the mic, you know, like Delicious Dish on Saturday Night Live where they both lean into the mic when they want to talk.

05:21:40.420 --> 05:21:41.120
Good times.

05:21:41.120 --> 05:21:42.580
That was fun.

05:21:43.900 --> 05:21:46.740
So that was an interesting episode because of that.

05:21:48.740 --> 05:21:50.080
But, you know, hey, we're hackers.

05:21:50.220 --> 05:21:51.000
We do what hackers do.

05:21:51.080 --> 05:21:51.660
We figured it out.

05:21:51.740 --> 05:21:52.220
We winged it.

05:21:52.420 --> 05:21:54.060
I don't think anybody could tell the difference.

05:21:54.140 --> 05:21:55.080
It came out pretty all right.

05:21:56.240 --> 05:21:59.460
You know, the levels might not have been perfect, but they never are really.

05:21:59.680 --> 05:22:00.400
Let's be honest.

05:22:00.400 --> 05:22:05.160
165, this was another great episode title.

05:22:06.260 --> 05:22:08.320
This was one of the classics.

05:22:08.880 --> 05:22:10.540
Fishing, Are You Retarded?

05:22:11.300 --> 05:22:15.900
That was a great title because that was pretty much an all-rant episode for me.

05:22:15.980 --> 05:22:17.080
I had to get that out.

05:22:17.320 --> 05:22:24.540
And after doing a bunch of serious shows in a row, you know, this was a throwback to the old days when we really had fun with the topics.

05:22:24.540 --> 05:22:28.820
We definitely talked about fishing and techniques and some of the technical aspects of it.

05:22:28.820 --> 05:22:31.660
But we also laughed our asses off that whole episode.

05:22:32.120 --> 05:22:34.000
And that was just fun.

05:22:34.300 --> 05:22:42.480
And the show was becoming kind of a chore because, again, all the real life stuff and how hard it was to come up with the topics and the time it takes.

05:22:42.800 --> 05:22:48.220
This one was really a breath of fresh air for me to do because it put the fun back into it for a little while.

05:22:49.020 --> 05:22:55.080
And if you want to hear a show that I think was really one of the fun, if not the funnest show or funniest show,

05:22:55.080 --> 05:23:03.540
I was on one of my classic rants on several of them on that episode because I think anybody that falls for fishing is retarded.

05:23:03.760 --> 05:23:06.840
I just – anyway, we won't go into it again.

05:23:06.900 --> 05:23:09.640
Listen to episode 165 or any of the others.

05:23:09.820 --> 05:23:14.640
I swear going back, so many of these hold up and are still interesting and fun.

05:23:15.100 --> 05:23:16.080
I'm so glad.

05:23:16.080 --> 05:23:18.840
Some aren't, but some aren't.

05:23:19.680 --> 05:23:24.040
So jumping ahead, 169, virtualization.

05:23:24.180 --> 05:23:27.860
That's another one of those topics that I was kind of hesitant about doing a show.

05:23:28.020 --> 05:23:28.880
Everyone reads about it.

05:23:28.920 --> 05:23:30.440
Everybody knows what virtualization is.

05:23:30.520 --> 05:23:37.020
So I didn't want to cover that because it just seemed too ordinary and didn't know how much we could expand on it.

05:23:37.100 --> 05:23:43.060
So we tried it, tried to go into some details and examples of its use and stuff like that.

05:23:43.060 --> 05:23:48.600
And this is another one that, looking back at it, look at where we came from then to now.

05:23:48.720 --> 05:23:55.600
We predicted and said in that episode that virtualization was definitely the future, the wave of the future and the future of hacking.

05:23:56.460 --> 05:24:00.600
Specifically, I mean, you and I were talking about this before.

05:24:01.700 --> 05:24:08.960
This is definitely becoming more commonplace in businesses and companies, but I still don't think hackers are taking advantage.

05:24:08.960 --> 05:24:11.480
I mean, this is like a major project where I'm working right now.

05:24:11.580 --> 05:24:15.980
We're talking about virtualizing about, you know, actually I can't really say much about it,

05:24:16.020 --> 05:24:21.620
but we're talking about virtualizing over 100 servers into like a handful.

05:24:21.900 --> 05:24:26.980
I mean, I'm not sure what the exact numbers are, but, yeah, it's not a lot.

05:24:27.060 --> 05:24:28.940
It's like amazing what they're actually trying to do.

05:24:29.400 --> 05:24:35.040
And, I mean, virtualization was one of those things that about a year ago, yeah, you kind of had some people talking about it,

05:24:35.040 --> 05:24:39.060
but it was mostly, you know, very think, now it's sort of like virtualization, this is it.

05:24:40.080 --> 05:24:45.400
Yeah, yeah, and, you know, again, maybe, I don't know that we were ahead of the curve or anything,

05:24:45.500 --> 05:24:50.600
but we predicted it, we knew it was going to blow up, and it did, so we were right about that one.

05:24:51.260 --> 05:24:57.000
Let's see, 170, another good episode because, again, getting some of my favorite co-hosts back on the show again

05:24:57.000 --> 05:25:01.740
that had not been on in a while and brought Dual Parallel back to do an episode for the first time in a long time.

05:25:01.740 --> 05:25:05.940
A lot of people liked hearing from him again, so that was good.

05:25:06.180 --> 05:25:10.120
And the topic of physical security, I'm sorry, what was that?

05:25:10.780 --> 05:25:16.000
I would say, I kind of shouted out noob, dual, but I don't want anyone to think that I think dual is a noob.

05:25:16.480 --> 05:25:17.760
Please don't hurt me, dual.

05:25:17.940 --> 05:25:18.860
No, no, not again.

05:25:18.960 --> 05:25:20.660
I just prepared my credit rating.

05:25:20.660 --> 05:25:33.260
The topic of this episode was physical security, and everybody in hackers always think of computers and hacking and security,

05:25:33.420 --> 05:25:35.440
but they forget about basic physical security.

05:25:35.960 --> 05:25:39.660
And dual and I both are very big proponents of that, and we both enjoy that,

05:25:39.780 --> 05:25:44.800
so it's an important topic that we thought then needed more, I still think it needs more exposure,

05:25:44.800 --> 05:25:49.500
and needed it then, so we tried to do that in that episode, and I think we covered a lot of good stuff.

05:25:49.500 --> 05:25:57.320
You know, the simplified version, easy to remember, DDR, not Dance Dance Revolution, but Detect, Delay, Respond.

05:25:57.800 --> 05:25:59.660
That's a good thing, the easy thing to remember.

05:25:59.680 --> 05:26:00.380
Up, down, down, start.

05:26:01.100 --> 05:26:04.660
Yeah, up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, select, start.

05:26:05.060 --> 05:26:07.340
I don't think Adami makes DDR, but anyway.

05:26:07.820 --> 05:26:09.160
Concert Command, baby.

05:26:10.320 --> 05:26:11.560
How do you get...

05:26:11.560 --> 05:26:13.120
All right, let's see, what else?

05:26:13.800 --> 05:26:15.800
Oh, here's another bad pun title.

05:26:15.960 --> 05:26:18.820
No, no, see, this is my favorite title.

05:26:18.820 --> 05:26:20.260
Oh, I thought you were saying this, Monty.

05:26:20.280 --> 05:26:21.260
The Mal-o-ween Special.

05:26:23.080 --> 05:26:27.160
And you gave me this, even though this was an episode that I did, I believe, I was like,

05:26:27.180 --> 05:26:29.780
I don't even know what the hell I'm going to call this, you know, like the Mal-o-ween Special.

05:26:30.000 --> 05:26:31.400
Yeah, but I wasn't serious.

05:26:31.640 --> 05:26:34.200
I didn't mean for you to actually use that, it was horrible.

05:26:34.220 --> 05:26:36.760
But it was great, because it was totally on topic.

05:26:36.920 --> 05:26:41.900
It was Halloween, it was about malware, I mean, it was, it was just, it was a fun title for it.

05:26:41.900 --> 05:26:45.620
And, you know what, you asked me about, you were trying to come up with something clever

05:26:45.620 --> 05:26:48.480
for it, and I said that thinking, this is horrible, this is awful.

05:26:48.560 --> 05:26:51.500
I wasn't serious that that would work as a title.

05:26:51.600 --> 05:26:53.700
That's like, one of your jokes.

05:26:54.520 --> 05:26:55.840
Yeah, I mean, it was great, man.

05:26:56.060 --> 05:26:58.020
You see, you don't want to do that around me, because I'm insane.

05:26:58.180 --> 05:26:59.700
I'm like, I'm like, there we go.

05:26:59.940 --> 05:27:00.840
I'm like freaking decoder.

05:27:00.960 --> 05:27:01.800
Lock me up, man.

05:27:02.340 --> 05:27:02.840
Mal-o-ween Special.

05:27:02.840 --> 05:27:03.640
I don't know what I'm going to do.

05:27:04.320 --> 05:27:05.900
Or Mal-o-ween Special.

05:27:06.260 --> 05:27:09.760
I guess Mal-o-ween, I guess it has a little bit of a ring, but that was corny.

05:27:10.460 --> 05:27:10.800
That was corny.

05:27:10.800 --> 05:27:13.820
It's a player in that parentheses, that's why people aren't supposed to pronounce that.

05:27:14.080 --> 05:27:19.240
I guess, that was one of our, yeah, that was not, whatever, that was what it was, whatever

05:27:19.240 --> 05:27:20.040
that may be.

05:27:20.940 --> 05:27:28.260
Yeah, well, 172 was a charter into, was a voyage into uncharted territories for BinRev Radio.

05:27:28.260 --> 05:27:31.080
Yeah, something we always tried to avoid, politics.

05:27:31.080 --> 05:27:34.740
We always had that no rule, politics, no politics rule.

05:27:35.960 --> 05:27:41.460
Well, I mean, we were talking about e-voting and vote hacking and all that stuff, and yeah,

05:27:41.520 --> 05:27:47.420
it was a very political-like episode, and we did go into a hazy career a lot, but I mean,

05:27:47.540 --> 05:27:51.080
I listened to that episode a couple of times, and I think we did a pretty good job of trying

05:27:51.080 --> 05:27:56.340
to stay politically neutral while more focusing on the problems with electronic voting, which

05:27:56.340 --> 05:28:01.500
unfortunately, in a lot of discussions, people don't do that.

05:28:01.500 --> 05:28:05.080
They're like, oh, you know, the evil corporations are going to try to raid the elections.

05:28:05.220 --> 05:28:06.820
They're like, no, it was just bad doing.

05:28:07.120 --> 05:28:09.280
Oh, it's a government, it's a Republican conspiracy.

05:28:09.580 --> 05:28:10.300
It's the George Floyd government.

05:28:10.300 --> 05:28:11.620
Exactly, it's a Republican conspiracy.

05:28:12.000 --> 05:28:15.380
You notice when, okay, we're going to stop now.

05:28:15.420 --> 05:28:16.180
Let's go on to 175.

05:28:16.180 --> 05:28:16.500
There you go.

05:28:16.900 --> 05:28:17.260
Exactly.

05:28:17.820 --> 05:28:22.120
We are going to uphold that rule to the very end, try to stay out of those topics.

05:28:22.260 --> 05:28:23.260
We focused on the tech.

05:28:23.720 --> 05:28:25.920
There was, you know, there were several times we walked the line.

05:28:26.000 --> 05:28:28.960
This was one of the hardest ones, but I think we managed to do it.

05:28:29.520 --> 05:28:30.200
Because I can win.

05:28:30.320 --> 05:28:31.240
I'm very political.

05:28:31.360 --> 05:28:32.160
I'm a political candidate.

05:28:32.340 --> 05:28:35.760
Win, you know, maybe there's a political show in the future somewhere.

05:28:35.880 --> 05:28:36.340
I doubt it.

05:28:36.360 --> 05:28:37.260
We don't have time, but.

05:28:37.600 --> 05:28:38.220
Probably not.

05:28:38.360 --> 05:28:39.620
Yeah, it would be, yeah.

05:28:39.980 --> 05:28:40.700
It would be interesting.

05:28:41.840 --> 05:28:42.320
Let's see.

05:28:42.320 --> 05:28:46.660
Let's jump ahead to 175, where Booter makes his debut, talks about some culture jamming

05:28:46.660 --> 05:28:47.400
stories.

05:28:47.540 --> 05:28:48.540
That was pretty good stuff.

05:28:49.020 --> 05:28:51.360
Yeah, that was a fun episode, and it has some fun stories.

05:28:51.520 --> 05:28:52.660
Yeah, Booter's a good guy.

05:28:53.680 --> 05:28:57.720
176, 177, a two-parter with you and Face Man, right?

05:28:58.500 --> 05:29:02.840
Yeah, Face Man was another one who just sort of came up to me and pitched me a topic, and

05:29:02.840 --> 05:29:03.800
I like that.

05:29:04.040 --> 05:29:06.080
I think a lot of people really didn't like this.

05:29:06.080 --> 05:29:12.200
I think it was one of the more hate mail-generating episodes we ever did, but I wouldn't say hate

05:29:12.200 --> 05:29:13.700
people were just like, this isn't hacking.

05:29:13.840 --> 05:29:18.520
What does, I still find this, you know, very related to hacking.

05:29:18.640 --> 05:29:22.060
Surviving outside the system, living off the grid, is definitely hacking the system, and

05:29:22.060 --> 05:29:25.420
I don't think a lot of people subscribe to that theory, but I didn't.

05:29:25.560 --> 05:29:26.880
I would, this is my show, damn it.

05:29:26.980 --> 05:29:31.640
Well, I know, I know Tom Icahn would agree with us, and probably some other people who

05:29:31.640 --> 05:29:34.880
I'm not going to mention on here, but I agree with it completely.

05:29:34.880 --> 05:29:37.940
I mean, again, it comes back to the physical security.

05:29:38.080 --> 05:29:40.560
People, you know, you've got to get unplugged sometimes.

05:29:40.560 --> 05:29:46.140
You've got to think outside of the box, and in some cases, the box is your box, you know?

05:29:46.260 --> 05:29:47.500
Think outside of the computer.

05:29:47.680 --> 05:29:51.900
I mean, if your computers go down, are your hacker skills enough that you could survive

05:29:51.900 --> 05:29:52.860
off the grid?

05:29:53.000 --> 05:29:54.480
Do you have those survival skills?

05:29:54.760 --> 05:29:59.920
Could you hack your way through life if the computer was taken away from you, or if all

05:29:59.920 --> 05:30:00.180
technology was taken away from you?

05:30:00.180 --> 05:30:04.040
I think a lot of people, and I've got to say, probably to some, myself included sometimes,

05:30:04.180 --> 05:30:05.740
where it would be rather difficult.

05:30:06.160 --> 05:30:07.440
Oh, it absolutely would be.

05:30:07.440 --> 05:30:11.480
I mean, hey, I'm as spoiled as everybody else on my high-speed internet access, but you

05:30:11.480 --> 05:30:11.760
know what?

05:30:12.280 --> 05:30:13.860
That's why this was a good topic.

05:30:14.080 --> 05:30:15.520
I don't care if it was two episodes.

05:30:15.700 --> 05:30:17.100
I don't care if people hate-mailed it.

05:30:17.400 --> 05:30:21.460
I think people learned something out of it, and I thought it was good, and hey, fuck the

05:30:21.460 --> 05:30:21.920
rest of it.

05:30:22.100 --> 05:30:25.180
Otherwise, people can write in with other topics and do episodes.

05:30:25.720 --> 05:30:27.080
Face Man did it, and they didn't.

05:30:27.800 --> 05:30:28.620
Yeah, exactly.

05:30:28.820 --> 05:30:29.620
And he helps to Face Man.

05:30:29.780 --> 05:30:31.420
He did his research on that.

05:30:31.560 --> 05:30:32.180
He knew his shit.

05:30:32.580 --> 05:30:32.760
Yep.

05:30:32.760 --> 05:30:34.420
Uh, 178.

05:30:34.520 --> 05:30:35.120
Cop-out episode?

05:30:36.500 --> 05:30:38.440
Uh, yeah, kind of, I guess.

05:30:38.500 --> 05:30:41.540
It was one of those things that we were kind of prepared for, and we just had a bunch of

05:30:41.540 --> 05:30:46.540
small, miscellaneous topics that we wanted to talk about, but we just tried to be, you

05:30:46.540 --> 05:30:47.740
know, they can't all be gents.

05:30:48.260 --> 05:30:48.620
Sorry.

05:30:48.820 --> 05:30:49.340
Sorry, folks.

05:30:49.680 --> 05:30:54.440
With the title, Holiday Freestyling, that just screams out to me, miscellaneous bullshit.

05:30:55.400 --> 05:30:55.760
Yes.

05:30:55.760 --> 05:30:57.840
You know, so that was, yeah, that was a shotgun show.

05:30:57.900 --> 05:30:59.100
I think we referred to it before.

05:31:00.260 --> 05:31:03.780
Um, but after that, we got on a pretty good streak.

05:31:03.880 --> 05:31:09.240
The next, like, five, six episodes through 184, 185, we got on a pretty good streak of

05:31:09.240 --> 05:31:15.660
lots of topical episodes, lots of different co-hosts, and stayed on topic very well, and

05:31:15.660 --> 05:31:20.080
actually replanted that thought in my mind that, you know what, maybe we'll survive this

05:31:20.080 --> 05:31:20.600
after all.

05:31:20.680 --> 05:31:22.400
Maybe we still can pull this off.

05:31:22.400 --> 05:31:28.700
We got on a good streak, a good run, and, uh, 85 on internet advertising that I did with

05:31:28.700 --> 05:31:29.040
Natus.

05:31:29.100 --> 05:31:33.540
That was a fun episode because I didn't really know a whole lot about it, but Natus had been

05:31:33.540 --> 05:31:34.720
doing a lot of work on it.

05:31:35.640 --> 05:31:42.800
My, uh, knowledge was limited to what I learned from my hacking Google AdWords as Black Ratchet

05:31:42.800 --> 05:31:44.040
gets dropped from the line there.

05:31:44.120 --> 05:31:45.100
We'll hope he calls back in.

05:31:45.600 --> 05:31:48.480
And we're going to keep recording, like I said earlier, we do on BinRev Radio.

05:31:48.480 --> 05:31:53.940
And hopefully he'll just join right on in where we left off because that's how we roll.

05:31:53.940 --> 05:31:55.280
Okay, I think my account ran out on new phone.

05:31:55.400 --> 05:31:55.740
Oh, well.

05:31:56.820 --> 05:32:01.420
But I was just saying that, um, the internet advertising, the only thing I know about it

05:32:01.420 --> 05:32:05.160
was how to get Black Ball from Google AdWords for my little desktop presentation.

05:32:05.400 --> 05:32:10.540
So Natus schooled me on a lot of topics on that and how to, uh, told the listeners how

05:32:10.540 --> 05:32:11.920
to make some money off of their website.

05:32:12.080 --> 05:32:14.100
Some of the programs that worked, some that didn't work.

05:32:14.180 --> 05:32:17.080
Talked about PageRank and some other things like that.

05:32:17.080 --> 05:32:24.080
Um, 186, another, this is another one of my favorite episodes just because it was different

05:32:24.080 --> 05:32:27.600
than anything we'd ever done before co-host-wise.

05:32:27.740 --> 05:32:33.880
I, I emailed Scott Baranato, who was a writer from CSO Magazine, Chief Security Officer Magazine,

05:32:34.480 --> 05:32:39.220
about an article that he wrote, this really good article that I liked because he didn't

05:32:39.220 --> 05:32:40.400
demonize hackers.

05:32:40.720 --> 05:32:43.280
And I, when I read, I look for stuff like that.

05:32:43.280 --> 05:32:48.580
That's a good thing to me and I try to, you know, in life we have a tendency to bitch

05:32:48.580 --> 05:32:53.380
and complain when stuff is bad, but you have to also support people that are good and doing

05:32:53.380 --> 05:32:53.960
good things.

05:32:54.320 --> 05:32:58.440
So I emailed him and actually invited him on the show and to my surprise, he accepted.

05:32:59.280 --> 05:33:03.280
He was actually curious and interesting and interested in what we were all about, you know.

05:33:03.280 --> 05:33:08.280
So, um, again, it was very different for BinRev Radio to actually have a real security

05:33:08.280 --> 05:33:12.040
professional and, and a writer about security professionals, probably more to the point.

05:33:12.700 --> 05:33:18.140
Um, with a whole different point of view on the show, a whole different thing, A, knowledgeable

05:33:18.140 --> 05:33:24.040
in his topics and the topics we talked about on the show, but also his opinions and thought

05:33:24.040 --> 05:33:29.360
processes on, you know, he, he, he co-hosted the show, which included talking about some of

05:33:29.360 --> 05:33:33.580
the email, he was able to freestyle, he knew what we were talking about, and give a different

05:33:33.580 --> 05:33:33.980
viewpoint.

05:33:34.140 --> 05:33:37.020
And again, it goes back to what I said earlier about mixing hosts together.

05:33:37.940 --> 05:33:41.260
Everybody's got different opinions and we're going to disagree on the show and that's okay.

05:33:41.400 --> 05:33:42.680
We can't be afraid of conflict.

05:33:42.820 --> 05:33:44.400
You can't be afraid to argue and debate.

05:33:44.620 --> 05:33:47.500
Even with your friends on the air, we don't agree, agree on everything.

05:33:47.700 --> 05:33:52.080
You know, it's, it's, it's good to have people with different viewpoints.

05:33:52.200 --> 05:33:53.560
That's what makes the show special.

05:33:53.660 --> 05:33:55.960
It gets stale if it was the same people over and over again.

05:33:55.960 --> 05:34:00.780
So, he brought something very different and that was definitely a show that I enjoyed

05:34:00.780 --> 05:34:06.720
and I think really changed the show up for a lot of people and, and I don't know, I thought

05:34:06.720 --> 05:34:10.860
that was one, that was a top ten for me as well, just because it was so different.

05:34:12.620 --> 05:34:18.580
And then where do we, let's see, 187, um, 187 on Undercover Cop, the murder episode.

05:34:18.960 --> 05:34:23.380
I had a friend of mine from Fort Lauderdale, Mia Flux from the Fort Lauderdale 2600 group, come

05:34:23.380 --> 05:34:28.580
on and talk about some accessibility topics, uh, and some technology breakthroughs and

05:34:28.580 --> 05:34:29.040
accessibility.

05:34:29.420 --> 05:34:31.480
This kind of goes back to the, the bioinformatics.

05:34:31.580 --> 05:34:35.720
These are things that a lot of people don't do a lot of research or know a lot about, but

05:34:35.720 --> 05:34:40.580
there's a lot of really cool technology there and a lot of breakthroughs and, and new, um,

05:34:40.640 --> 05:34:42.500
technologies that come out of those fields.

05:34:42.500 --> 05:34:44.340
So, that was an interesting episode.

05:34:45.940 --> 05:34:53.660
And then it kind of, um, I, I think that's pretty much, 188, 189 was the Hack 5 doubleheader,

05:34:53.700 --> 05:34:54.580
if you remember that one.

05:34:55.640 --> 05:34:58.440
And one where Droops had pre-recorded an episode.

05:34:59.200 --> 05:35:05.700
Um, after us having some missed episodes here recently, um, Droops, again, being the, the

05:35:05.700 --> 05:35:12.620
cool savior that he is there, um, went ahead and did an interview, recorded an episode

05:35:12.620 --> 05:35:15.840
with, uh, Darren and Wes from over at Hack.5.

05:35:16.540 --> 05:35:19.900
And so we kind of sat on that in case we ever missed an episode again.

05:35:20.680 --> 05:35:22.660
Well, we missed an episode again.

05:35:22.660 --> 05:35:26.460
So, um, we'd been sitting on that episode for a month or two probably.

05:35:27.560 --> 05:35:29.440
And, uh, we'd missed an episode one week.

05:35:29.440 --> 05:35:34.820
So what I did is I tried to pull another doubleheader where I'd make up for the lost episode, missed

05:35:34.820 --> 05:35:42.840
episode, and I recorded another show in that series with Movex, um, one of the Hack 5 guys

05:35:42.840 --> 05:35:46.700
who, who'd been on the show and was, uh, uh, running their forums and some other projects

05:35:46.700 --> 05:35:48.980
over there, um, doing a lot of stuff with them.

05:35:49.100 --> 05:35:52.200
So, I did an episode with him and the Hack 5 guys.

05:35:52.220 --> 05:35:54.520
We're talking about Droops being so cool, uh, just for a second.

05:35:54.620 --> 05:35:55.920
I just want to drop a URL there.

05:35:55.920 --> 05:36:03.660
It's, uh, www.blackratchet.org slash ETC, Echo Tango Charlie, slash Troops Superman, one

05:36:03.660 --> 05:36:06.220
word, um, dot PNG.

05:36:06.460 --> 05:36:12.260
And if you go, uh, www.blackratchet.org slash ETC, you'll, you'll find it unless it's an

05:36:12.260 --> 05:36:12.760
open directory.

05:36:13.020 --> 05:36:14.640
And that's how Cool Troop is.

05:36:14.780 --> 05:36:15.640
We'll just leave it at that.

05:36:15.700 --> 05:36:16.200
Safe for work.

05:36:16.240 --> 05:36:16.580
It's okay.

05:36:16.740 --> 05:36:18.420
I know the picture you're talking about.

05:36:18.740 --> 05:36:19.400
And, um.

05:36:19.720 --> 05:36:21.720
It kind of gives, the URL kind of gives it away.

05:36:21.900 --> 05:36:25.760
Well, and you, you also just gave, um, you also just gave us another.

05:36:26.300 --> 05:36:31.380
Another one of the most annoying things about Season 3 was you pronouncing everything Echo,

05:36:31.520 --> 05:36:36.220
Tango, Bravo, Alpha, Charlie, Franklin, whatever the fuck other names you use to use.

05:36:36.220 --> 05:36:37.180
Fuck's right, you asshole.

05:36:37.420 --> 05:36:38.300
Yeah, whatever.

05:36:39.840 --> 05:36:41.260
Oh, my gosh.

05:36:41.420 --> 05:36:46.360
We wanted so badly to do, I think Not Theory and I sat down one day and made up a list of

05:36:46.360 --> 05:36:50.500
other words for all of those that were all, like, graphically disgusting.

05:36:50.500 --> 05:36:54.680
Like, B was Bukkake and, and C was Gank.

05:36:54.680 --> 05:37:00.060
Oh, the other, the other one was Adam Baker, um, I forget what C is, I know it used to be

05:37:00.060 --> 05:37:02.800
Dog, Easy, Frank, uh.

05:37:02.800 --> 05:37:06.760
So, yeah, I can find another alphabet there for you there.

05:37:06.920 --> 05:37:13.820
All I know is that listening to you read a tiny URL on the air made me want to put a gun in my mouth.

05:37:14.720 --> 05:37:18.120
It's got, people were not questioning how to spell it.

05:37:18.120 --> 05:37:22.460
Well, that doesn't mean it was still annoying.

05:37:24.460 --> 05:37:28.040
Oh, hey, I can, I'm not one to talk, you know, I got the whole Southern accent thing.

05:37:28.120 --> 05:37:33.180
I try my best to spell them out if I have to, if I try to enunciate, but, hey, whatever.

05:37:35.040 --> 05:37:39.260
Oh, let's see, what else, um, let's see.

05:37:39.340 --> 05:37:42.900
Man, you know what, let's, that brought us up to 189.

05:37:42.900 --> 05:37:50.540
Man, let's see, 191, uh, again, we're falling behind on episodes, and I just accepted the fact that I'm not able to make up for it anymore.

05:37:51.000 --> 05:37:52.560
Not doing any more double-headers.

05:37:52.900 --> 05:38:01.420
And, I mean, I'm going to take, um, as much blame for this as you are, because, uh, I was supposed to step in, and really, I don't have any time anymore either.

05:38:01.580 --> 05:38:07.760
So, it was just both of us, and, um, it was, I mean, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't good.

05:38:07.820 --> 05:38:12.600
And I think you were basically, share my, share, our, our opinions are one of the same on this.

05:38:12.600 --> 05:38:14.960
It's just a sad, it was a very sad boon for both of us.

05:38:15.020 --> 05:38:22.580
Yeah, I mean, the beginning of the end may have been, you know, earlier in round 140, 150, but this is when the writing was on the wall.

05:38:23.020 --> 05:38:29.520
And, yes, in the members-only forum, we had discussions of this, Ratchet, myself, and Savant was going to try to take over.

05:38:29.600 --> 05:38:30.840
And we tried to work something out.

05:38:30.920 --> 05:38:32.180
We tried to work out a rotation.

05:38:32.380 --> 05:38:34.240
We tried to work out some sort of system.

05:38:34.780 --> 05:38:36.520
We discussed going bi-weekly.

05:38:36.620 --> 05:38:37.760
We discussed going monthly.

05:38:37.760 --> 05:38:44.260
And, you know, the more we talked about it, the more we realized that, you know what, it's coming to the end.

05:38:44.640 --> 05:38:52.300
You know, so we, we knew for sure around 191, 190, around that time, what was going to happen.

05:38:52.920 --> 05:38:55.000
Um, it was, it was so hard.

05:38:55.100 --> 05:38:59.860
As a matter of fact, 190, I believe, was when I had to go solo.

05:38:59.860 --> 05:39:02.020
I couldn't even find anybody to co-host with me.

05:39:02.640 --> 05:39:04.980
But I wanted to release that show, so I went solo.

05:39:05.140 --> 05:39:05.860
It was awful.

05:39:06.860 --> 05:39:12.940
Um, you know, I'm not even funny with the co-host, so by myself, you can imagine how awful that was.

05:39:13.140 --> 05:39:17.120
I, solo shows is, again, it's not the format that I've always liked.

05:39:17.160 --> 05:39:19.700
It's not what BinRev Radio is, so that one was a bad one.

05:39:20.380 --> 05:39:28.280
Now, once we kind of came to that point of acceptance at 191, we realized that we're not going to meet the schedule anymore.

05:39:28.280 --> 05:39:34.100
What I did decide to do was, okay, at least what we're going to do is wrap it up with good shows.

05:39:34.500 --> 05:39:35.780
It may not be weekly.

05:39:36.060 --> 05:39:37.440
It may not even be bi-weekly.

05:39:37.520 --> 05:39:43.700
We just said, fuck it, we're going to put them out as quickly as we can within our schedules and put out episodes.

05:39:43.820 --> 05:39:46.560
And all of those episodes, towards the end, I'm happy with.

05:39:46.680 --> 05:39:48.280
I think they came out pretty good.

05:39:48.740 --> 05:39:50.860
I think all of them had good, solid topics.

05:39:50.980 --> 05:39:52.820
I think we definitely lived up to expectations.

05:39:53.000 --> 05:39:55.360
We didn't have any cop-outs, anything that I would call cop-outs.

05:39:55.420 --> 05:39:56.360
They're all good shows.

05:39:56.900 --> 05:39:57.860
They're recent enough.

05:39:57.920 --> 05:39:58.740
You can go listen to them.

05:39:58.840 --> 05:40:00.020
They're still fresh.

05:40:00.280 --> 05:40:00.940
They're not stale.

05:40:01.060 --> 05:40:02.660
They're not bad.

05:40:02.760 --> 05:40:03.500
They're not timely.

05:40:03.960 --> 05:40:06.400
You know, you can go listen to those, and they should still be fine.

05:40:06.480 --> 05:40:08.200
So go listen to the past few episodes.

05:40:08.880 --> 05:40:11.720
And they weren't released back-to-back, like I said, week after week.

05:40:11.860 --> 05:40:13.980
But I think they were all good episodes.

05:40:14.200 --> 05:40:18.560
And that basically leads us up to here, episode number 200 that we're listening to right now.

05:40:18.700 --> 05:40:19.360
And we're probably...

05:40:19.360 --> 05:40:20.320
Man, I loved this episode.

05:40:20.540 --> 05:40:21.360
This was great.

05:40:21.360 --> 05:40:22.760
This was one of my favorite episodes.

05:40:23.360 --> 05:40:24.600
And it was just so well-written.

05:40:24.600 --> 05:40:25.160
And...

05:40:25.160 --> 05:40:26.500
Oh, never mind.

05:40:26.840 --> 05:40:27.680
Well, we're not done yet.

05:40:27.740 --> 05:40:29.640
So I don't know if this is a good episode or not.

05:40:30.520 --> 05:40:33.000
Again, I decided that we're going to close this up.

05:40:33.100 --> 05:40:34.720
It was certainly a long episode.

05:40:34.940 --> 05:40:35.240
I loved it.

05:40:35.240 --> 05:40:39.260
But we're probably, let's see, we're over four hours in right now, I bet you.

05:40:39.960 --> 05:40:40.900
Four hours in.

05:40:40.960 --> 05:40:43.040
I mean, about an hour per season going through this.

05:40:43.780 --> 05:40:46.100
But, I mean, a lot of these stories people didn't know.

05:40:46.240 --> 05:40:47.380
People hadn't heard before.

05:40:47.660 --> 05:40:48.440
A lot of updates.

05:40:48.540 --> 05:40:49.220
A lot of backstory.

05:40:49.380 --> 05:40:50.920
Hell, I didn't know some of this stuff.

05:40:50.980 --> 05:40:52.580
So I'm hearing some of this stuff for the first time.

05:40:53.080 --> 05:40:54.820
Which, again, is what's great about the show.

05:40:54.820 --> 05:41:00.760
So, episode 200, we've got a few more things I still want to talk about.

05:41:00.900 --> 05:41:07.380
But I guess, now that we've recapped most of the shows, gave you some of the backstory.

05:41:07.500 --> 05:41:07.760
What was it?

05:41:07.820 --> 05:41:09.280
Director's commentary, we called it.

05:41:09.680 --> 05:41:10.300
Director's commentary.

05:41:10.300 --> 05:41:16.240
I think this is a good time to kind of switch gears and talk about a few other things to wrap up the show.

05:41:16.380 --> 05:41:18.660
Talk about the community in general.

05:41:18.900 --> 05:41:20.300
Talk about some people.

05:41:20.720 --> 05:41:22.760
And there's still a few more things I want to do.

05:41:22.800 --> 05:41:23.600
We're not done yet.

05:41:23.700 --> 05:41:26.420
I know you've had four hours of BinRev Radio so far.

05:41:26.520 --> 05:41:26.900
You know what?

05:41:26.920 --> 05:41:28.360
You can pause it and come back later.

05:41:28.780 --> 05:41:30.020
Or you can keep right on listening.

05:41:30.120 --> 05:41:31.300
I'm going to keep right on talking.

05:41:31.440 --> 05:41:32.280
I'm going to close this out.

05:41:32.280 --> 05:41:33.340
Dude, this is better than crack anyway.

05:41:33.840 --> 05:41:34.460
Yeah, exactly.

05:41:34.720 --> 05:41:36.400
This is an all-nighter here.

05:41:36.400 --> 05:41:39.180
You might have to listen to this all night over the weekend.

05:41:39.180 --> 05:41:40.960
Break it up into parts, whatever you've got to do.

05:41:41.200 --> 05:41:47.240
But I'm going to make sure that everything that needs to be said and really give closure to Binary Revolution Radio happens.

05:41:47.720 --> 05:41:50.580
So to you, Black Ratchet, thank you for being on the show.

05:41:50.680 --> 05:41:52.860
You don't have to own up or apologize for anything.

05:41:53.020 --> 05:41:53.800
Real life happens.

05:41:53.880 --> 05:41:55.520
We've always said that from day one.

05:41:55.600 --> 05:41:56.380
We all know that.

05:41:56.720 --> 05:41:58.040
Hey, we had a good run.

05:41:58.320 --> 05:42:02.800
We put out a couple years, four years of, I won't say good shows.

05:42:02.860 --> 05:42:04.480
I'll say the best shows that we could do.

05:42:05.000 --> 05:42:06.600
You know, I had fun doing it.

05:42:06.660 --> 05:42:07.420
I hope you did.

05:42:09.180 --> 05:42:12.100
You know, I appreciate you coming on this episode.

05:42:12.280 --> 05:42:14.400
I know it was even difficult for you to get away from this tonight.

05:42:14.640 --> 05:42:19.380
But taking over the show, it would have ended after two seasons if it wasn't for you.

05:42:19.480 --> 05:42:20.960
So I absolutely owe you that.

05:42:21.040 --> 05:42:25.600
There's no doubt about it that you are the reason that BinRev lasted four years.

05:42:25.680 --> 05:42:27.740
I could not have done it without you and a lot of other people.

05:42:28.040 --> 05:42:28.680
So I appreciate that.

05:42:28.680 --> 05:42:30.200
I want royalties on the CD sale.

05:42:30.200 --> 05:42:32.560
Okay, that's going to amount to zero dollars.

05:42:32.640 --> 05:42:34.140
We can't even sell a fucking t-shirt.

05:42:34.440 --> 05:42:35.380
People beg for the t-shirt.

05:42:35.480 --> 05:42:37.020
Okay, don't get started on a rant.

05:42:37.780 --> 05:42:39.200
I'm not going to end the show on a rant.

05:42:39.280 --> 05:42:40.760
I'm going to end the show with a thank you.

05:42:41.220 --> 05:42:42.360
And everybody stick around.

05:42:42.460 --> 05:42:44.280
We're going to talk about some other stuff.

05:42:44.560 --> 05:42:45.680
Well, right now.

05:42:45.680 --> 05:42:51.660
I think I'm going to close out the show solo, even though I don't normally like doing shows

05:42:51.660 --> 05:42:53.260
all by myself.

05:42:54.020 --> 05:43:00.900
But I thought, you know what, it's just kind of appropriate, I guess, to sit here and kind

05:43:00.900 --> 05:43:08.800
of ramble and spill my thoughts on the life cycle of Binary Revolution Radio from the beginning.

05:43:08.800 --> 05:43:13.620
And, you know, we've just spent several hours going through some episodes, telling some

05:43:13.620 --> 05:43:16.560
stories with some of our past co-hosts and friends of the show.

05:43:17.600 --> 05:43:24.400
And, you know, I guess let's kind of go back to the beginning of all of this and the beginning

05:43:24.400 --> 05:43:25.740
of BinRev Radio, that is.

05:43:25.780 --> 05:43:31.200
There's obviously a lot of backstory and history before Binary Revolution Radio was ever thought

05:43:31.200 --> 05:43:31.440
of.

05:43:31.520 --> 05:43:35.900
I mean, I've been around for quite a while, 36 years on this planet.

05:43:35.900 --> 05:43:42.060
So I've been in the hacking scene since I was in middle school and high school, mostly

05:43:42.060 --> 05:43:45.660
in high school when I started in the mid-80s, late-80s.

05:43:46.740 --> 05:43:53.440
But as far as the beginning of Binary Revolution Radio, you know, there is the official show

05:43:53.440 --> 05:43:55.520
put out by 2600 called Off the Hook.

05:43:56.220 --> 05:43:58.520
And even now there's another show called Off the Wall.

05:43:58.600 --> 05:44:00.540
And these have been around for a long, long time.

05:44:00.660 --> 05:44:04.680
They're, what I would have to say, is probably the first hacking radio show.

05:44:04.680 --> 05:44:10.500
There may be others, but that's the first and the most common, most well-known that I'd

05:44:10.500 --> 05:44:11.080
ever heard about.

05:44:11.160 --> 05:44:14.680
I'm sure there were others here and there along the way, so I'm not saying that to put any

05:44:14.680 --> 05:44:16.240
others down that I might not be aware of.

05:44:16.280 --> 05:44:17.200
But that was the big one.

05:44:17.260 --> 05:44:18.640
That was the only one everybody ever knew.

05:44:19.440 --> 05:44:24.160
But for some reason, nobody ever really thought about doing another show.

05:44:24.160 --> 05:44:29.820
Well, as it usually does, technology drives a lot of things.

05:44:30.380 --> 05:44:38.540
And when the inception of encoded audio and audio formats came along to the global interweb,

05:44:39.700 --> 05:44:44.480
some people decided that it might be useful to actually start recording their voice and

05:44:44.480 --> 05:44:46.260
releasing shows on the internet.

05:44:46.260 --> 05:44:48.580
Not podcasting.

05:44:48.660 --> 05:44:51.160
This was long before even podcasting came around.

05:44:51.980 --> 05:44:56.040
And people would put out these very rare, very hard-to-find shows.

05:44:56.400 --> 05:44:59.580
And MP3 format is the one that really took off and made it common.

05:45:00.300 --> 05:45:05.540
And one of the first ones that I actually stumbled across on the interweb was a show called Hacker

05:45:05.540 --> 05:45:05.840
Mind.

05:45:06.440 --> 05:45:10.900
And very shortly thereafter, or pretty much the same time within a week or two, another show

05:45:10.900 --> 05:45:13.540
called RFA, or Radio Freak America.

05:45:14.420 --> 05:45:20.020
And these are two shows that I found while surfing the global interweb in, you know, much

05:45:20.020 --> 05:45:22.360
earlier, simpler times, if you will.

05:45:22.860 --> 05:45:30.020
And these are shows that I heard and listened to, as well as off the hook here and there.

05:45:30.720 --> 05:45:33.200
I wanted as much as I could get my hands on.

05:45:33.260 --> 05:45:37.320
I was never one of those people that thought of doing other projects or anything really as

05:45:37.320 --> 05:45:38.720
competition so much.

05:45:39.100 --> 05:45:40.260
I never thought of it that way.

05:45:40.260 --> 05:45:46.660
As a matter of fact, Dual Parallel, who was the inventor, one of the inventors or creators

05:45:46.660 --> 05:45:52.960
of Radio Freak America, and I became friends on the interweb, and I began doing episodes

05:45:52.960 --> 05:45:54.100
of Radio Freak America.

05:45:56.080 --> 05:46:00.500
And both of these shows actually had a relationship with a station called Rant Radio.

05:46:01.400 --> 05:46:06.400
Good friends over at Rant Radio, Sumerian Smokehouse, Sean Kennedy, all those guys over there,

05:46:06.400 --> 05:46:12.080
they actually open arms adopted us and let us, you know, allowed us to put our show on

05:46:12.080 --> 05:46:17.040
their station, which reached a lot of people streaming media, streaming audio at the time

05:46:17.040 --> 05:46:18.500
was also something that was very new.

05:46:18.600 --> 05:46:22.920
And they were doing some breakthrough technology, and they had the capacity to do so.

05:46:22.920 --> 05:46:25.180
So that worked out very well.

05:46:25.180 --> 05:46:26.660
It was a good relationship for all of us.

05:46:27.340 --> 05:46:32.080
And as we did Radio Freak America, we watched the numbers grow and more people become interested

05:46:32.080 --> 05:46:32.480
in it.

05:46:32.640 --> 05:46:37.640
Hacker Mind, unfortunately, real life came in, as we talk about on the show all the time,

05:46:37.640 --> 05:46:39.980
and they were not able to continue doing that show.

05:46:40.120 --> 05:46:45.160
Radio Freak America was able to continue through 100 episodes for two years, which was great,

05:46:45.160 --> 05:46:47.860
and I was very, very happy to be a part of that.

05:46:49.280 --> 05:46:53.440
And somewhere along the way there, Binary Revolution Radio was born.

05:46:53.820 --> 05:46:57.600
We talked about it earlier, which episode it was, and frankly, I don't even remember offhand.

05:46:57.660 --> 05:46:58.680
It's several hours now.

05:46:58.800 --> 05:47:00.680
I forgot, lost track of all those.

05:47:00.740 --> 05:47:01.500
There's so much there.

05:47:02.320 --> 05:47:07.940
But the early BINREV Radio, we also got on the Rant Radio stream, but we also decided

05:47:07.940 --> 05:47:12.440
to launch our own stream, our own internet radio station, because around this time, not

05:47:12.440 --> 05:47:17.960
only was there BINREV Radio, but very shortly after BINREV Radio, we encouraged people to

05:47:17.960 --> 05:47:23.300
make other shows from the forums, and several different types of hacker media shows popped

05:47:23.300 --> 05:47:27.880
up around the net, and we wanted a place to house all of those, so we created BINREV Radio,

05:47:29.160 --> 05:47:36.080
DDPHACK Radio, excuse me, which aired BINREV Radio along with a lot of other shows.

05:47:36.080 --> 05:47:39.920
Again, it's been quite a long show here, so you have to forgive me if I'm stumbling over

05:47:39.920 --> 05:47:47.160
my words, but we created DDPHACK Radio to give a place for all of these things to be

05:47:47.160 --> 05:47:47.860
gathered together.

05:47:48.020 --> 05:47:52.480
Another great site that came up back then was hackermedia.org from Kizzle, which was

05:47:52.480 --> 05:47:57.320
a place where, at this point in time, podcasting was beginning to be heard of.

05:47:57.360 --> 05:48:00.540
It was starting to come out, which is nothing but a glorified XML feed.

05:48:00.540 --> 05:48:07.780
We had so many shows that were scattered around there, and hackermedia was a site that would

05:48:07.780 --> 05:48:09.780
attempt to bring all of these together.

05:48:09.780 --> 05:48:14.640
Now, it also had some other non-hacking sites, it was a little bit spread out, but anything

05:48:14.640 --> 05:48:18.220
that might be of interest to hackers, you had this central portal where you could come and

05:48:18.220 --> 05:48:18.780
find it.

05:48:18.780 --> 05:48:24.820
Well, Kizzle turned that over to our good friend, Droop, fellow DDP member, and it's

05:48:24.820 --> 05:48:26.640
grown ever since then as well.

05:48:26.640 --> 05:48:31.340
We've got it categorized and focused, Droop's doing great work on that, and of course, NIC84

05:48:31.340 --> 05:48:38.160
doing fantastic work coding up all of the back end of DDPHACK Radio, so those guys are doing

05:48:38.160 --> 05:48:42.280
great work to also further hacker media, get it out there, get people listening to it.

05:48:42.620 --> 05:48:45.900
And again, not just Binary Revolution Radio, it was never about that.

05:48:45.900 --> 05:48:52.700
We were just one small part in a growing kind of movement, a revolution, if you will, that

05:48:52.700 --> 05:48:56.360
had so many shows and so much information out there, and that was great.

05:48:57.020 --> 05:49:00.480
And there is actually a history to this whole thing.

05:49:00.560 --> 05:49:04.180
There is actually a backstory to a lot of this stuff that people probably don't appreciate.

05:49:04.400 --> 05:49:09.040
And again, it's not just Binary Revolution Radio, it's just that over four years, Binary

05:49:09.040 --> 05:49:14.340
Revolution Radio has been a part or been in existence while a lot of other great things were

05:49:14.340 --> 05:49:16.140
happening around it.

05:49:17.000 --> 05:49:21.340
One other thing worth mentioning also is the technicalities of how we do the show.

05:49:21.560 --> 05:49:26.780
And you may have heard Black Ratchet and I arguing or joking earlier about the technology

05:49:26.780 --> 05:49:28.160
behind the way I do the show.

05:49:28.760 --> 05:49:33.180
I still implement a method of recording the show, and I'm doing it right now for this final

05:49:33.180 --> 05:49:38.000
episode that is so insanely simplistic.

05:49:38.640 --> 05:49:44.000
And this actually goes back to Radio Freak America, the same way that Duel also recorded

05:49:44.000 --> 05:49:44.380
the show.

05:49:44.480 --> 05:49:47.260
We still record the show the same way for Binary Revolution Radio.

05:49:47.380 --> 05:49:48.000
I do anyway.

05:49:48.840 --> 05:49:51.420
And that is very simply a Lab Tech microphone.

05:49:52.380 --> 05:49:54.340
I guess it's four or five years old now.

05:49:54.340 --> 05:50:01.160
I think it was maybe $995, $795, a very cheap little microphone that plugs into the sound

05:50:01.160 --> 05:50:03.820
card, speakerphone.

05:50:04.120 --> 05:50:07.000
Gone through a couple of those over that time period, I think.

05:50:08.000 --> 05:50:11.780
And I'm sure the people on the other end of the line will tell you that it's not very

05:50:11.780 --> 05:50:13.180
good, but it works fine on my end.

05:50:13.260 --> 05:50:17.560
They may hear some random touch tones when they do shows, but for me, it works good.

05:50:17.560 --> 05:50:24.180
I put the microphone in between the two of us, so do a little sound check and some adjusting

05:50:24.180 --> 05:50:25.780
at the beginning of every single show.

05:50:25.860 --> 05:50:28.720
It's another one of those little behind the scenes set up things a lot of people don't

05:50:28.720 --> 05:50:33.660
know, but have to kind of adjust that microphone, adjust the volume of the speakerphone, do sound

05:50:33.660 --> 05:50:37.240
checks to make sure that the co-host is able to be heard.

05:50:37.620 --> 05:50:41.200
And in most cases, I try to make sure that their voice is actually a little higher than

05:50:41.200 --> 05:50:41.580
mine.

05:50:42.420 --> 05:50:46.320
If that way, if they interrupt or jump in with a comment or something, I want to make sure

05:50:46.320 --> 05:50:48.100
that their voice dominates mine.

05:50:48.160 --> 05:50:51.700
I don't want to cut them out, so I make sure that their voice comes in loud and clear.

05:50:52.480 --> 05:50:57.080
So very simple, something that anybody can do, something we've always emphasized for

05:50:57.080 --> 05:50:57.560
day one.

05:50:57.700 --> 05:51:01.240
Anybody can, for a few dollars, start up a radio show.

05:51:01.740 --> 05:51:02.860
There's tons of software.

05:51:03.000 --> 05:51:04.100
I still use Audacity.

05:51:05.060 --> 05:51:09.600
Tons of software out there, free or otherwise, that you can use to record this, encoding it

05:51:09.600 --> 05:51:10.360
to MP3.

05:51:11.120 --> 05:51:15.400
Another, you know, I wish we could have all along, we wanted to convert this also over

05:51:15.400 --> 05:51:18.980
to Og Vorbis and just was one of those things where we never had time to really do it.

05:51:20.480 --> 05:51:22.680
I do still have most of the masters.

05:51:23.300 --> 05:51:28.120
One episode, any random episode of Binary Revolution Radio that I recorded, hour and a

05:51:28.120 --> 05:51:35.460
half long, takes up approximately about two gigs of storage to hold the very high quality

05:51:35.460 --> 05:51:35.940
audio.

05:51:35.940 --> 05:51:41.740
And then we mixed that down into actually a fairly high audio MP3 file.

05:51:41.840 --> 05:51:45.740
That's something else that we have done for Binary Revolution Radio that was different

05:51:45.740 --> 05:51:46.680
than most other shows.

05:51:46.840 --> 05:51:50.860
I always wanted to do justice to the opening and closing music or any other music that we

05:51:50.860 --> 05:51:51.560
used in the show.

05:51:51.560 --> 05:51:57.300
So I always try to kind of find a happy medium of file size versus sound quality.

05:51:57.840 --> 05:52:03.600
So I'm sure this very episode, being as long as it is, will be a huge, huge file size.

05:52:04.320 --> 05:52:10.700
But maybe we'll release a lower bitrate version of this as well for the dial-up impaired, if

05:52:10.700 --> 05:52:11.120
you will.

05:52:12.320 --> 05:52:18.520
And that two gig files, I've got them on my NAS, my network storage device.

05:52:19.300 --> 05:52:23.580
So maybe at some point in the future we'll release very high quality on DVD or something

05:52:23.580 --> 05:52:24.980
like that, collect them all together.

05:52:25.960 --> 05:52:27.080
That's what I did.

05:52:27.160 --> 05:52:29.060
That's the methods I used to record.

05:52:29.220 --> 05:52:36.160
I know Ratchet and Strom, they used a much more modern, much more common, actually, a lot

05:52:36.160 --> 05:52:41.960
of shows started doing this, and that is using asterisk to record their calls, to record

05:52:41.960 --> 05:52:42.760
their shows.

05:52:42.900 --> 05:52:47.640
People would call into a number, call into their PBX running asterisk, and they would

05:52:47.640 --> 05:52:51.700
set it up to record the audio that was being spoken through the phone.

05:52:51.780 --> 05:52:56.480
So it was as easy as calling someone up on the phone and have it automatically record it.

05:52:57.440 --> 05:53:00.720
Obviously, there was some trimming to be done after that was over with.

05:53:00.720 --> 05:53:07.300
One of the things I always thought was kind of awkward was you have to mix in the opening

05:53:07.300 --> 05:53:10.600
music and closing music and the email theme.

05:53:11.080 --> 05:53:15.500
They worked through all that, found ways to inject that in there by touching certain combinations

05:53:15.500 --> 05:53:17.560
of touch tones and things like that.

05:53:17.680 --> 05:53:23.140
So they really did a lot more technically advanced way of recording the show than I did.

05:53:23.460 --> 05:53:24.560
Not without some pitfalls.

05:53:24.680 --> 05:53:29.280
There were a couple where the stereo was a little off and it was kind of disorienting.

05:53:29.280 --> 05:53:34.860
There was some where the lag came into effect, where questions were being answered before

05:53:34.860 --> 05:53:36.960
the question was actually asked.

05:53:37.060 --> 05:53:41.820
I think there was something wrong with the timing and the sequencing of the two streams

05:53:41.820 --> 05:53:42.440
coming in.

05:53:42.500 --> 05:53:43.600
Could have been VoIP-related.

05:53:43.720 --> 05:53:44.880
Could have been bandwidth issues.

05:53:44.980 --> 05:53:45.460
Who knows?

05:53:46.320 --> 05:53:51.340
But it was definitely a superior technological solution to it.

05:53:52.100 --> 05:53:54.360
And it's something that, once again, a lot of people use.

05:53:54.440 --> 05:53:59.260
Default Radio used that same method of recording, as well as many other shows since then.

05:53:59.280 --> 05:54:06.180
Now, I'm not going to go into too much more detail about, you know, the how to record a show.

05:54:06.280 --> 05:54:09.960
We've done episodes of that in the past and I think it's pretty easy to figure out.

05:54:10.020 --> 05:54:10.860
There's plenty of tutorials.

05:54:11.040 --> 05:54:16.340
Again, once podcasting blew up, lots of people went out there and posted tutorials of how to

05:54:16.340 --> 05:54:19.180
do this stuff that we'd been doing for years and had already told people about.

05:54:19.320 --> 05:54:21.340
So the world caught up with that.

05:54:21.400 --> 05:54:23.940
So there's always information to tell you how to do that.

05:54:24.360 --> 05:54:29.480
The next important thing in doing the radio show was content.

05:54:30.420 --> 05:54:32.440
It was very important to me from the get-go.

05:54:32.520 --> 05:54:36.840
We did a couple shows in the beginning, I admit, that were a little bit more news-focused

05:54:36.840 --> 05:54:37.760
than I would have liked.

05:54:37.760 --> 05:54:44.260
But I realized early on that one of the things that I wanted to make different about Binary

05:54:44.260 --> 05:54:48.300
Revolution Radio than all the other shows that I had heard before, you know, one of

05:54:48.300 --> 05:54:50.660
the things I always felt like I was missing is I liked those shows.

05:54:50.760 --> 05:54:53.560
I loved listening to them and being on these other shows.

05:54:53.760 --> 05:54:59.780
But one thing I always wanted to do was have a show where the format was very rigid, reliable,

05:54:59.780 --> 05:55:00.380
and strict.

05:55:00.900 --> 05:55:02.220
There's certainly nothing wrong.

05:55:02.400 --> 05:55:04.760
There were shows like Default, which was fantastic.

05:55:04.880 --> 05:55:08.500
Default Radio, great show that was just random.

05:55:08.840 --> 05:55:09.540
It was fun.

05:55:09.660 --> 05:55:11.500
It was just fly by the seat of your pants.

05:55:12.020 --> 05:55:13.860
And that's actually what made it great.

05:55:14.640 --> 05:55:20.940
The lack of a strict format was their format, if that makes any sense at all.

05:55:20.940 --> 05:55:25.540
The fact that, yeah, they knew a lot of stuff they wanted to talk about, but they didn't

05:55:25.540 --> 05:55:30.840
set rigid, strict format as far as we have to start off with email and housekeeping, and

05:55:30.840 --> 05:55:35.140
then we go into a main topic, and then we have closing music, et cetera, et cetera.

05:55:35.220 --> 05:55:37.100
They never really worried too much about that.

05:55:37.360 --> 05:55:40.100
They just went out there and had fun, and that's what made that show great.

05:55:40.200 --> 05:55:41.720
The same thing with Radio Freak America.

05:55:41.980 --> 05:55:44.160
It was a little bit more strict.

05:55:44.160 --> 05:55:51.040
And Duel, as much as he gives me grief over my show novels, Duel himself actually wrote

05:55:51.040 --> 05:55:55.360
show notes for most of the episodes of Radio Freak America, so he can't speak a whole lot.

05:55:55.720 --> 05:56:02.260
Mine may have been a little bit more verbose, I admit, but actually taking the time to prepare

05:56:02.260 --> 05:56:05.100
for a show is something that I always tried to do.

05:56:05.220 --> 05:56:10.520
I didn't like flying by the seat of my pants because, to me, when I hear other shows doing

05:56:10.520 --> 05:56:11.280
that, I can tell.

05:56:11.960 --> 05:56:13.100
I don't want dead air.

05:56:13.100 --> 05:56:16.040
I don't want people thinking we're not completely prepared for the show.

05:56:16.420 --> 05:56:18.780
Don't script out the entire show, obviously.

05:56:18.920 --> 05:56:23.000
We still fly by the seat of our pants as far as content, what we're going to say, and what

05:56:23.000 --> 05:56:23.740
we're going to talk about.

05:56:23.980 --> 05:56:29.700
We just want to have a format that flows easily so we can talk about everything, make sure

05:56:29.700 --> 05:56:33.140
we get it all in in the time frame allotted, which we, again, fail that many times.

05:56:33.240 --> 05:56:37.540
Sometimes we had to break shows up into multiple episodes, or we weren't able to cover everything

05:56:37.540 --> 05:56:38.160
that we wanted.

05:56:38.160 --> 05:56:44.440
But have predetermined content week to week.

05:56:44.840 --> 05:56:46.420
One week we may talk about fishing.

05:56:46.580 --> 05:56:48.460
One week we may talk about rainbow tables.

05:56:48.620 --> 05:56:51.000
One week we may talk about man-in-the-middle attacks.

05:56:51.800 --> 05:56:55.120
Could be, you know, any, obviously you can go back through the show titles and see all

05:56:55.120 --> 05:56:56.160
the different things we covered.

05:56:57.000 --> 05:57:02.000
But we would do the research, you know, and most of it was stuff we'd already researched

05:57:02.000 --> 05:57:02.980
or already knew about.

05:57:03.300 --> 05:57:06.040
And if not, we would do a lot of research on our own as well.

05:57:06.100 --> 05:57:08.600
There are many things that I learned on the show.

05:57:08.660 --> 05:57:09.240
I'm like, you know what?

05:57:09.260 --> 05:57:10.700
I'd like to do a show about this.

05:57:11.100 --> 05:57:12.520
So I would spend maybe a month.

05:57:12.600 --> 05:57:15.280
I'd know in advance what the show was going to be about.

05:57:15.340 --> 05:57:20.720
I'd spend a month or more researching this, asking around to other people to teach me a

05:57:20.720 --> 05:57:25.120
lot of this stuff, and ultimately getting a co-host on that could also, that also did

05:57:25.120 --> 05:57:27.500
know about this and could also teach me more about it as well.

05:57:27.740 --> 05:57:30.960
So we always try to focus our co-hosts, people who had experience.

05:57:31.100 --> 05:57:36.240
It wasn't just, you know, I could have easily done Binary Revolution Radio every single week

05:57:36.240 --> 05:57:38.020
with, you know, the same people.

05:57:38.080 --> 05:57:41.720
I could have done the show with Winter Mute every single week from week one.

05:57:41.720 --> 05:57:44.500
We did a few episodes with he and I, and then we switched it up.

05:57:44.580 --> 05:57:48.660
We bring in Dual Parallel from Radio Freak America and Blaine Inquisitor, who we still

05:57:48.660 --> 05:57:53.380
talk to from Radio Freak America and other things, and mix it up.

05:57:53.820 --> 05:57:57.940
And then as the show went on, I mean, over the course of the show, and gosh, maybe I should

05:57:57.940 --> 05:58:02.560
have looked this up before we started recording, I really don't know how many different people

05:58:02.560 --> 05:58:04.560
co-hosted Binary Revolution Radio.

05:58:05.280 --> 05:58:09.320
So, so many different people, and, you know, not always me.

05:58:09.320 --> 05:58:12.500
There was also kind of a running joke, it was stank and co-host.

05:58:13.060 --> 05:58:16.960
Well, that was only because I was the one who was sitting here recording behind the microphone,

05:58:17.300 --> 05:58:22.620
but certainly there were other people that hosted the show along the way, many times

05:58:22.620 --> 05:58:23.200
without me.

05:58:23.760 --> 05:58:27.700
And even when I was on the show, I tried to stay in the background and let the knowledgeable

05:58:27.700 --> 05:58:28.760
people handle the show.

05:58:28.840 --> 05:58:32.880
I have no problem admitting my limits to my knowledge.

05:58:33.040 --> 05:58:34.280
Everybody has limits to their knowledge.

05:58:34.400 --> 05:58:37.020
Some people just don't want to admit them as well as others.

05:58:37.020 --> 05:58:42.380
So, we'd always get people on there to try to enhance the content of the show.

05:58:42.480 --> 05:58:45.700
It's not about ego, it's not about who's leet and who knows this and that.

05:58:45.940 --> 05:58:51.220
It was all about trying to get something out there that people could listen to, enjoy, learn

05:58:51.220 --> 05:58:53.540
from, and, yeah, have a little fun in the process.

05:58:53.760 --> 05:58:58.860
You know, we were never, we were never shooting to be a mainstream show.

05:58:59.000 --> 05:59:03.820
We never wanted to be a show that would be on normal radio.

05:59:03.820 --> 05:59:07.260
If we were shooting for that, obviously, we would have gone a different route.

05:59:07.360 --> 05:59:08.680
We wouldn't have gone with an internet show.

05:59:08.760 --> 05:59:10.800
We wouldn't have gone with the whole downloads only thing.

05:59:11.840 --> 05:59:13.920
We insisted all along on that format.

05:59:14.480 --> 05:59:17.980
When you listen to Binary Revolution Radio, one of the things I was always proud of is

05:59:17.980 --> 05:59:22.620
that we have that opening theme music by Zerl, our good friend Zerl, who gave us permission

05:59:22.620 --> 05:59:28.560
to use that song, Dedication to Hackers and Crackers, which everybody has asked about

05:59:28.560 --> 05:59:30.700
on many occasions, as our opening song.

05:59:31.280 --> 05:59:36.540
And I wanted that, you know, after, you know, many episodes of the show, when people would

05:59:36.540 --> 05:59:42.040
hear that music, you know, for me, listening to the show, it's like, yes, it's time.

05:59:42.100 --> 05:59:42.580
I can't wait.

05:59:42.580 --> 05:59:48.400
Even when I listened to episodes by Black Ratchet or whoever else was hosting or co-hosting

05:59:48.400 --> 05:59:53.240
the show, Droops, whoever, hearing that was almost like an adrenaline rush for me.

05:59:53.320 --> 05:59:58.060
It's like, yes, I get to listen to the next episode of the radio show, Binary Revolution

05:59:58.060 --> 06:00:00.060
Radio, and I'm on the other end listening to it.

06:00:00.180 --> 06:00:02.120
That was always a rush to me, and I liked that.

06:00:02.240 --> 06:00:06.980
And that's one of the format things that I wanted to make sure that we kept all along.

06:00:07.540 --> 06:00:09.920
No discussing slash dot or dig tops.

06:00:10.100 --> 06:00:14.800
Of course, we've been around long before dig ever thought of existing, but no discussing

06:00:14.800 --> 06:00:18.060
news stories, as I said earlier, because those things are timely.

06:00:18.660 --> 06:00:24.560
If you talk about news items, something that's in the news four years ago, there's no way

06:00:24.560 --> 06:00:26.520
you would really go back and listen to that again.

06:00:26.620 --> 06:00:31.160
I mean, if you wanted to go back and listen to a news topic for four years ago and listen

06:00:31.160 --> 06:00:33.540
to us talk about it, that's boring to me.

06:00:33.540 --> 06:00:37.680
Frankly, that's boring to me to listen to a news topic in general.

06:00:37.940 --> 06:00:40.900
You have to bring something fresh and different and new to it.

06:00:41.240 --> 06:00:42.520
I can read slash dot.

06:00:43.080 --> 06:00:48.480
I don't need somebody to read it to me unless they really have some insight.

06:00:48.840 --> 06:00:54.080
I would listen to a story talking about news topics if they interviewed the people directly

06:00:54.080 --> 06:00:56.520
involved in it that had intimate firsthand knowledge.

06:00:56.520 --> 06:01:01.140
But most of the time, shows that were coming out on these podcasts, these technology shows,

06:01:01.340 --> 06:01:06.420
which got infinitely more downloads than us, talked about news topics with people that

06:01:06.420 --> 06:01:08.320
were completely unrelated to it.

06:01:08.440 --> 06:01:13.760
They just read the same thing I did and regurgitate that back to me as though they were somehow

06:01:13.760 --> 06:01:15.000
adding value to it.

06:01:15.240 --> 06:01:17.280
And I never, ever liked that type of show.

06:01:17.280 --> 06:01:23.300
So early in the beginning, we steered away from that and steered towards an emphasis on

06:01:23.300 --> 06:01:28.840
teaching and learning and having guests that can enhance that and trying to go topical.

06:01:29.100 --> 06:01:30.020
You can go back.

06:01:30.120 --> 06:01:31.660
You know, I do honestly believe this.

06:01:31.720 --> 06:01:36.940
You can go back to episodes from season one, even early episodes, and the content, whatever

06:01:36.940 --> 06:01:40.040
the topic was at that time, you can listen to those shows now.

06:01:40.480 --> 06:01:43.120
And they still, for the most part, hold up.

06:01:43.500 --> 06:01:45.160
And not many shows can say that.

06:01:45.160 --> 06:01:50.300
I know off the hook, actually, we'll go back through old episodes sometimes and play clips

06:01:50.300 --> 06:01:55.580
and talk about how they predetermined this and how they knew this was coming way in advance.

06:01:55.680 --> 06:01:56.160
But you know what?

06:01:56.200 --> 06:01:58.520
They have to dig through a lot of archives to find that.

06:01:59.000 --> 06:02:05.100
I like to think that the majority, most, I will say, of the episodes of Binary Revolution

06:02:05.100 --> 06:02:07.820
Radio still stand to this very day.

06:02:07.900 --> 06:02:11.020
And I think that is also due to the emphasis on that.

06:02:11.020 --> 06:02:16.300
Another thing in the format that I was very animated about was that we do the show every

06:02:16.300 --> 06:02:18.400
week, every week on the same time.

06:02:19.180 --> 06:02:23.260
As a kid growing up, I think anybody listening to this, I don't know if it's the same for

06:02:23.260 --> 06:02:27.240
younger, but for my generation, boy, there was nothing better than waking up Saturday

06:02:27.240 --> 06:02:28.820
morning to run in and watch cartoons.

06:02:28.960 --> 06:02:30.580
You always knew they were going to be on.

06:02:30.920 --> 06:02:32.900
You always knew what you were going to run and watch.

06:02:32.940 --> 06:02:34.300
You got to go watch the Laugh Olympics.

06:02:34.460 --> 06:02:35.600
You got to go watch Scooby-Doo.

06:02:35.600 --> 06:02:36.980
You got to go watch those shows.

06:02:37.820 --> 06:02:43.880
And even anybody watching television has shows that they look forward to, that they sit down

06:02:43.880 --> 06:02:47.620
and make sure they're in front of the TV for, I don't know, say American Isle, for example.

06:02:49.100 --> 06:02:52.940
So you'll look forward to that show and you can't wait for that day when it comes on.

06:02:53.460 --> 06:02:57.300
So instead of randomly doing shows, which again is something that happened on a lot of

06:02:57.300 --> 06:03:02.680
other shows, I wanted to set an absolute rigid schedule that were going to come out every

06:03:02.680 --> 06:03:08.900
week, same time, which was, that was helped again by Rant Radio and DDP Hack Radio.

06:03:09.100 --> 06:03:12.580
We were streaming and we kind of had a commitment to come out with that.

06:03:12.640 --> 06:03:18.060
So some of that was actually assisted and demanded by scheduling a show.

06:03:18.160 --> 06:03:21.820
It's kind of like, you know, American Idol can't take a week off.

06:03:22.520 --> 06:03:24.040
TV shows can't take a week off.

06:03:24.080 --> 06:03:25.360
It doesn't quite work that way.

06:03:25.360 --> 06:03:30.680
So we wanted to also be in that same vein where people could depend on and rely on hearing

06:03:30.680 --> 06:03:32.720
Binary Revolution Radio every week.

06:03:34.040 --> 06:03:38.280
And the only other rule that we had in there, you know, the format again is pretty well known

06:03:38.280 --> 06:03:41.260
that we started off with the theme song, the introduction.

06:03:42.080 --> 06:03:45.500
We, I don't know if we did it in the very early episodes, but I started to make sure that

06:03:45.500 --> 06:03:48.320
I announced the date that the show aired.

06:03:48.320 --> 06:03:53.880
So down the road, it'll be historically accurate that it aired on this date and time, the episode

06:03:53.880 --> 06:03:55.000
number, the co-hosts.

06:03:55.240 --> 06:03:58.840
We did a little housekeeping at the beginning, which was anything we had announcement-wise,

06:03:58.960 --> 06:04:02.540
any changes, anything on the forums or any of the projects we were working on that we

06:04:02.540 --> 06:04:03.180
wanted to announce.

06:04:03.700 --> 06:04:05.100
We went into the email section.

06:04:05.220 --> 06:04:08.320
We had some great email theme music that people had made for us over the years.

06:04:09.260 --> 06:04:11.760
And email was an important part of our format.

06:04:11.860 --> 06:04:12.700
We wanted feedback.

06:04:13.220 --> 06:04:16.040
Once again, who am I to come on and do the show?

06:04:16.040 --> 06:04:20.860
I'm the one that just happened to sit down and do it, but there are so many people out

06:04:20.860 --> 06:04:23.880
there listening to the show that know more about these topics than me.

06:04:24.240 --> 06:04:26.640
Once again, I have no problems saying that or admitting that.

06:04:26.840 --> 06:04:31.420
So we always look forward each week to email to hear feedback from people that would either

06:04:31.420 --> 06:04:37.680
add to it or on occasion correct us if we misspoke or even bring in controversy or other

06:04:37.680 --> 06:04:42.640
questions, suggestions for other show topics, just all kinds of great stuff.

06:04:42.640 --> 06:04:47.000
And sometimes we would spend, I think there were, I'm pretty sure actually that there

06:04:47.000 --> 06:04:51.480
were several times where we spent an entire show reading email and never got to our main

06:04:51.480 --> 06:04:51.900
topic.

06:04:52.480 --> 06:04:54.760
And you know, some people may not have liked those as much.

06:04:54.840 --> 06:04:57.060
They were so used to hearing a regular topic every week.

06:04:57.220 --> 06:05:01.100
We would just push the topic back to the subsequent week, talk about it again on the next episode.

06:05:01.220 --> 06:05:02.620
It wasn't dismissed or lost.

06:05:02.920 --> 06:05:06.500
We would just kind of push it back because we thought that the email or whatever we were

06:05:06.500 --> 06:05:10.200
talking about or rambling about or ranting about held up on its own.

06:05:10.200 --> 06:05:12.980
So we just stopped and went on, pushed it back to the next week.

06:05:14.000 --> 06:05:17.700
And the only other thing was we would close out the show every week with shouts.

06:05:17.920 --> 06:05:22.220
I wanted again, it's about community and it's about all the people that contribute to the

06:05:22.220 --> 06:05:26.860
show, even if they're not co-hosting the show, if they're not directly, everybody writing

06:05:26.860 --> 06:05:32.840
show notes, sending in emails, just listening to the show and letting us know that yes, there

06:05:32.840 --> 06:05:34.660
are people out there that are interested in this stuff.

06:05:34.660 --> 06:05:40.300
Everybody had some sort of input to the show and that's something that we always appreciated.

06:05:40.440 --> 06:05:44.040
So we made sure to have a section at the end of the show for shouts to say thank you

06:05:44.040 --> 06:05:46.740
to all those people along the way.

06:05:46.840 --> 06:05:48.280
We certainly couldn't have done it without them.

06:05:49.480 --> 06:05:52.060
And we had one rule on Binary Revolution Radio.

06:05:52.160 --> 06:05:53.960
Out of all the other rules, you know, we had a format.

06:05:54.100 --> 06:05:56.060
If you want to call the format a rule, I guess you can say.

06:05:56.060 --> 06:06:02.120
But we really only had one rule on Binary Revolution Radio and that rule was no politics.

06:06:03.140 --> 06:06:06.760
Said from the very beginning that I don't want to talk about politics.

06:06:06.900 --> 06:06:11.440
Even stuff that's related to hacking, we had to walk a very fine line with those.

06:06:11.800 --> 06:06:17.260
Some things like the Patriot Act over the years and, you know, we do walk, there are certain

06:06:17.260 --> 06:06:22.020
topics that may border that legality issue, lines, stories that are going on.

06:06:22.020 --> 06:06:27.240
And we tried really hard not to go into the political side of things because that is well

06:06:27.240 --> 06:06:30.220
covered by other radio shows.

06:06:30.900 --> 06:06:34.640
And I think we all know what we're talking about there or other magazines that have beaten

06:06:34.640 --> 06:06:35.420
those to death.

06:06:35.940 --> 06:06:41.660
You know, it's like I got enough of that and I know how much I got tired of hearing the same

06:06:41.660 --> 06:06:47.560
thing every quarter or every week on a radio show and the bashing and et cetera, et cetera.

06:06:47.560 --> 06:06:52.160
It's too much and it's already spoken for.

06:06:52.260 --> 06:06:53.280
Someone's already doing that.

06:06:53.360 --> 06:06:53.940
So, you know what?

06:06:54.000 --> 06:06:54.940
More power to them.

06:06:55.240 --> 06:06:58.020
But we said from day one we did not want to get into politics.

06:06:58.280 --> 06:07:03.680
Certainly we touched on it on occasion, but we tried to keep it to a technical aspect of

06:07:03.680 --> 06:07:08.040
anything like voting machines came up and we wanted to make sure we don't want to go into

06:07:08.040 --> 06:07:11.880
this whole party conspiracy stuff.

06:07:11.980 --> 06:07:13.060
We tried to stay away from that.

06:07:13.060 --> 06:07:20.420
We tried to never mention presidents by name or parties by name or any of that kind of

06:07:20.420 --> 06:07:20.620
stuff.

06:07:20.700 --> 06:07:25.520
We wanted to avoid it because most people wanted us to focus on the technology and that's

06:07:25.520 --> 06:07:26.300
what we tried to do.

06:07:27.520 --> 06:07:31.620
So, again, we would try to get guests on the show based on the topic at hand and their

06:07:31.620 --> 06:07:32.080
availability.

06:07:32.360 --> 06:07:37.020
And sometimes we'd have to work a lot of stuff into the guest availability when I wanted to

06:07:37.020 --> 06:07:41.500
have certain specific people on there to talk about whatever their topics or whatever

06:07:41.500 --> 06:07:42.880
we could do to work around their schedule.

06:07:42.960 --> 06:07:43.840
We did that as well.

06:07:44.240 --> 06:07:48.300
And all of those things combined, that's what made up Binary Revolution Radio.

06:07:48.680 --> 06:07:52.180
I've been talking for, what, 15 minutes about the format and what it is.

06:07:52.580 --> 06:07:53.160
But you know what?

06:07:53.180 --> 06:07:54.360
It's really not that difficult.

06:07:55.020 --> 06:07:59.400
Strict format, strict timing, and one rule, no politics.

06:07:59.800 --> 06:08:00.440
That was it.

06:08:00.720 --> 06:08:01.240
That's it.

06:08:01.540 --> 06:08:04.580
Summarized, four years, summarized into three little things.

06:08:04.920 --> 06:08:05.800
It was that simple.

06:08:05.800 --> 06:08:15.100
Now, moving away from the actual show itself, you know, some of the great things that I am

06:08:15.100 --> 06:08:20.800
leaving Binary Revolution Radio with are, well, you know, some great friends.

06:08:20.960 --> 06:08:24.440
You know, it may be corny, but hey, I'm a corny guy sometimes.

06:08:24.980 --> 06:08:26.320
I've come away with great friends.

06:08:26.420 --> 06:08:31.560
Most of the people that I've done the radio show with, almost without exception, I still

06:08:31.560 --> 06:08:33.020
talk to on a regular basis.

06:08:33.020 --> 06:08:36.660
I still communicate with, I've got a lot of friends in this scene.

06:08:37.500 --> 06:08:42.460
And speaking of friends, I certainly couldn't do the final episode of Binary Revolution Radio

06:08:42.460 --> 06:08:46.240
without getting one of my longest friends in the hacking scene.

06:08:46.400 --> 06:08:46.720
Wait a minute.

06:08:47.200 --> 06:08:47.800
Longest friends.

06:08:47.860 --> 06:08:49.540
Does that have double entendre?

06:08:49.560 --> 06:08:50.280
That's true, actually.

06:08:50.460 --> 06:08:51.580
Is that a double entendre?

06:08:52.240 --> 06:08:54.740
Duel Parallel joining me on the show here.

06:08:54.800 --> 06:08:58.200
I've been trying to get Duel on the show all week, so we just got him on the show, and

06:08:58.200 --> 06:09:01.920
it's perfect timing because Duel, this is something you and I have always agreed on.

06:09:01.920 --> 06:09:04.540
You know, you and I have been friends for a long time.

06:09:04.740 --> 06:09:06.580
Bland, we've all been friends for a long time.

06:09:06.660 --> 06:09:07.040
Win or mute.

06:09:07.580 --> 06:09:11.540
And that's one of the great things about this scene in general.

06:09:11.740 --> 06:09:16.020
Binary Revolution Radio, over the course of four years, I've met a lot of great people

06:09:16.020 --> 06:09:19.500
because of the show, inside of the show, outside of the show.

06:09:19.500 --> 06:09:22.520
And you and I run in the same circles.

06:09:23.380 --> 06:09:27.360
I'm sure a lot of people are wondering how everybody is doing that they've heard over

06:09:27.360 --> 06:09:28.420
the shows over these years.

06:09:28.740 --> 06:09:30.660
And people may not realize.

06:09:30.780 --> 06:09:33.380
I mean, you and I talk, you know, once every week, just about.

06:09:34.020 --> 06:09:35.860
I'm sure we fluctuate here and there.

06:09:35.900 --> 06:09:40.460
But you and I have stayed in touch all this time, even though people on the forums or the

06:09:40.460 --> 06:09:41.920
radio show may not have heard you.

06:09:42.880 --> 06:09:46.420
Frequently, you've got real life that you're dealing with, of course, like we all are.

06:09:46.580 --> 06:09:50.180
And, of course, that's why this is the final episode of Binary Revolution Radio because

06:09:50.180 --> 06:09:51.080
we all have to do that.

06:09:51.280 --> 06:09:53.340
But, you know, everybody's still around.

06:09:53.460 --> 06:09:54.460
Everybody's still doing well.

06:09:54.880 --> 06:09:59.800
And, you know, there's some stories out there that I think people would enjoy hearing and

06:09:59.800 --> 06:10:00.880
having some closure on it.

06:10:00.980 --> 06:10:04.180
So, I guess to start off, how are you doing all these years?

06:10:04.240 --> 06:10:05.340
People have not heard from you.

06:10:05.440 --> 06:10:06.340
I know you're fine.

06:10:06.340 --> 06:10:09.400
But, you know, why don't you tell everybody how are things?

06:10:09.580 --> 06:10:11.760
You've got a BINREV meeting out there, right?

06:10:12.640 --> 06:10:15.160
Yeah, we started BINREV meeting, BINREV 602 shows.

06:10:15.360 --> 06:10:17.980
And it's really, really, it's amazing.

06:10:18.180 --> 06:10:18.860
Great meetings.

06:10:19.200 --> 06:10:21.980
There are, you know, a lot of people from the 2600 meeting get together.

06:10:22.940 --> 06:10:24.160
Let me just say this.

06:10:24.380 --> 06:10:25.680
Well, first of all, I'm driving.

06:10:25.980 --> 06:10:30.700
So, I'm like on my cell phone, driving a stick, you know, eating jack-in-the-box all at

06:10:30.700 --> 06:10:31.320
the same time.

06:10:31.400 --> 06:10:31.960
Oh, man.

06:10:32.960 --> 06:10:33.620
And, um.

06:10:33.820 --> 06:10:34.780
Don't die, please.

06:10:35.360 --> 06:10:36.140
No, no, I'll live.

06:10:36.200 --> 06:10:36.460
I'll live.

06:10:36.580 --> 06:10:44.140
So, I have to say that I've never, maybe because I'm getting older or maybe because, you know,

06:10:44.200 --> 06:10:46.200
friends were just in school years, right?

06:10:46.240 --> 06:10:50.680
But I've never had such good friends this long, you know?

06:10:50.800 --> 06:10:51.060
Yeah.

06:10:51.660 --> 06:10:55.500
As the friends I've had in the acting community, I mean, my best friend.

06:10:55.860 --> 06:10:56.760
Yeah, absolutely.

06:10:57.000 --> 06:10:57.220
So.

06:10:57.900 --> 06:11:01.220
You know, and that's kind of interesting you say that because I had said that a few

06:11:01.220 --> 06:11:07.020
minutes earlier, um, before you got on the call here, um, maybe there is something to

06:11:07.020 --> 06:11:09.180
do with getting older and the age thing, you know?

06:11:09.200 --> 06:11:11.000
A little bit of maturity, a little bit more.

06:11:11.240 --> 06:11:11.480
Maybe.

06:11:11.840 --> 06:11:13.680
More, more, more of what it is for me.

06:11:13.680 --> 06:11:17.720
I noticed myself growing a bigger appreciation for those things.

06:11:18.200 --> 06:11:22.200
Whereas, when I was younger, you have friends all the time and it's all, you take it for

06:11:22.200 --> 06:11:22.460
granted.

06:11:22.580 --> 06:11:23.600
You don't really think about it.

06:11:23.980 --> 06:11:27.760
You know, who's a real friend and who's a drinking buddy and that kind of stuff.

06:11:28.000 --> 06:11:29.320
But, you know, my real friends.

06:11:29.320 --> 06:11:29.920
Yeah, it's all that kind of pussy.

06:11:30.480 --> 06:11:30.500
Yeah.

06:11:32.680 --> 06:11:34.860
Rax always said he did it for the chicks, right?

06:11:35.200 --> 06:11:35.600
Right.

06:11:36.060 --> 06:11:39.380
So, you know, my real friends have always come from the hacking scene.

06:11:39.460 --> 06:11:40.120
They really have.

06:11:40.920 --> 06:11:41.200
Right.

06:11:42.160 --> 06:11:43.100
So, let's see who.

06:11:44.620 --> 06:11:45.060
Okay.

06:11:45.180 --> 06:11:46.460
I'm doing, I'm doing well.

06:11:46.700 --> 06:11:48.540
Uh, I, I moved.

06:11:48.840 --> 06:11:50.060
I'm doing different things.

06:11:50.120 --> 06:11:52.440
I'm still looking to do different things.

06:11:52.540 --> 06:11:53.780
Always, you know, learning.

06:11:53.780 --> 06:11:57.740
And then, uh, um, going to Paris tomorrow, actually.

06:11:57.900 --> 06:11:59.980
That's another reason why it's been hard to get a hold of me.

06:12:00.180 --> 06:12:02.620
So, you go to Paris.dualdenew.com.

06:12:02.680 --> 06:12:02.800
Yeah.

06:12:03.100 --> 06:12:03.380
Yeah.

06:12:03.600 --> 06:12:06.920
Um, just, just really enjoying life.

06:12:06.980 --> 06:12:07.960
And I've really learned.

06:12:08.060 --> 06:12:09.980
Let me pass this little bit of information on.

06:12:09.980 --> 06:12:13.900
Well, not that I'm holding lives or anything, but, um, time is important.

06:12:14.420 --> 06:12:18.680
You know, life and enjoying life, doing things in life is important.

06:12:18.840 --> 06:12:20.280
Not, things aren't important.

06:12:20.460 --> 06:12:21.280
Doing things.

06:12:21.580 --> 06:12:22.020
Exactly.

06:12:22.020 --> 06:12:22.860
Um, it's important.

06:12:23.260 --> 06:12:24.660
I've really, really learned that.

06:12:24.660 --> 06:12:35.760
I've, I've, I've, um, pretty much, not totally, obviously, but, uh, I have gone a long way as far as liberating myself from material things.

06:12:35.760 --> 06:12:40.200
I mean, I've, my wife and I have, have downsized considerably, and it's such a freedom.

06:12:40.740 --> 06:12:42.040
Oh, God, it's such a freedom.

06:12:42.040 --> 06:12:51.560
So, all you motherfuckers out there, stick the fuck away from McMansions, and you're, well, I've got an excuse, but, just stay away from all that shit, because it doesn't get you anywhere, man.

06:12:51.900 --> 06:12:52.200
Yeah.

06:12:52.260 --> 06:12:53.240
It doesn't get you anywhere.

06:12:53.240 --> 06:13:00.400
Yeah, and that's, that's, that's, honestly, that's probably why the X community is so amazing, and why the people are so amazing, because they, I'm probably preaching in the choir.

06:13:00.520 --> 06:13:01.120
They already know that.

06:13:01.480 --> 06:13:06.340
Yeah, well, it's, it's kind of like, um, it's kind of like one of those corny, uh, MasterCard commercials, you know.

06:13:06.600 --> 06:13:13.680
You can put price tags in a lot of things, but there are some things in the world that are priceless, you know, and good friends are one of them.

06:13:14.580 --> 06:13:19.080
Well, speaking of good friends, um, I wanted to, let's go through a list of some of these hosts people have heard from.

06:13:19.080 --> 06:13:27.820
Let's bring them up to date, before we end up the show here, and, um, and tell how everybody's doing, because, again, between the two of us, we keep up with all these people.

06:13:28.220 --> 06:13:30.080
Uh, Wintermute, of course, episode one.

06:13:30.220 --> 06:13:33.060
I started the show with Wintermute, Wintermute from the RFA days.

06:13:33.760 --> 06:13:37.920
Um, why don't you, you go ahead and start off, and, um, give us an update on Wintermute.

06:13:38.520 --> 06:13:47.320
Well, let me just say this, that he's a lead mofo, and he's in his, I can, I can say this, I'm sure he's getting his undergrad.

06:13:47.320 --> 06:13:58.380
Um, I, so he's doing great, and he's just, just hyper-intelligent, um, and he's, he'll, he'll be a PhD someday for sure.

06:13:58.560 --> 06:13:59.140
Oh, absolutely.

06:13:59.140 --> 06:14:00.820
He'll be Dr. Mute, I have no doubt.

06:14:00.920 --> 06:14:02.880
Dr. Mute, the freak scout.

06:14:06.000 --> 06:14:07.400
Dr. Mute, the freak scout.

06:14:07.520 --> 06:14:08.360
Yep, doing well.

06:14:08.640 --> 06:14:11.840
Um, hear from him every once in a while, but, you know, college life.

06:14:12.040 --> 06:14:12.880
You know how that goes.

06:14:13.600 --> 06:14:23.940
Oh, yeah, he's, last thing I heard, Rax, uh, was getting him loaded at the front-a-lot show at Hope, I think.

06:14:24.080 --> 06:14:27.220
So, he's on the right track, right there, he's on the right track.

06:14:27.280 --> 06:14:33.080
And he does occasionally make it out to conferences and stuff, so you can still bump into him, so, um, that's good to know.

06:14:33.540 --> 06:14:36.640
And he's doing well with the ladies, too, but I'll just back away from that.

06:14:36.640 --> 06:14:40.600
Um, our little Winter Mute's grown up.

06:14:41.140 --> 06:14:41.420
Yeah.

06:14:41.820 --> 06:14:46.940
You know, you know what, and, oh, man, should I go, yeah, we've known Winter Mute since he was, like, 15.

06:14:48.000 --> 06:14:48.720
Are you serious?

06:14:48.980 --> 06:14:51.680
15, 16 years old, now he's graduating from college.

06:14:51.760 --> 06:14:54.420
It's been four years since we've been doing Binary Revolution Radio.

06:14:54.660 --> 06:14:56.340
He's graduating from college, now.

06:14:56.780 --> 06:14:57.900
That trips me out.

06:14:57.960 --> 06:14:58.760
Isn't it, doesn't it?

06:14:58.840 --> 06:15:00.000
He's been on the air for four years.

06:15:00.140 --> 06:15:02.160
Dude, doesn't it, doesn't it make you feel old?

06:15:02.960 --> 06:15:04.440
Kind of, yeah, that's crazy.

06:15:04.560 --> 06:15:04.720
Yeah.

06:15:04.720 --> 06:15:05.520
Time is crazy.

06:15:05.760 --> 06:15:07.460
Four years, we are ending today.

06:15:08.420 --> 06:15:08.760
Wow.

06:15:08.900 --> 06:15:13.400
Well, and speaking of the youngsters, you know, that's, that's something else I was kind of mentioning earlier, is,

06:15:13.620 --> 06:15:19.420
I don't have any beef, like, admitting my limitations, where my holes in my knowledge are.

06:15:19.480 --> 06:15:24.920
I try to fill them, I try to learn, but I have no problem learning from just about anybody.

06:15:25.620 --> 06:15:30.860
I'm not one of those people that thinks, you know, oh, I'm old guy, wise, I already know it all.

06:15:30.860 --> 06:15:38.400
No, I learned a lot, not only from Wintermute, but from another one of our co-hosts, Hack and Slash, who was also 15 when we met him.

06:15:38.400 --> 06:15:38.460
Oh, yeah.

06:15:38.860 --> 06:15:41.300
You know, and he still pops into the forums on occasion.

06:15:41.560 --> 06:15:44.080
He's also went into college and focused on college.

06:15:44.400 --> 06:15:47.680
But these are young guys, you know, the young guns, if you will.

06:15:47.680 --> 06:15:52.300
These are the next generation, or maybe they are our generation.

06:15:52.480 --> 06:16:00.100
We're all, you know, the next generation of hackers, the young people out there that are becoming old folks like us that are accomplishing great stuff as well.

06:16:01.640 --> 06:16:03.380
Which is probably, watch this.

06:16:03.400 --> 06:16:07.560
I can't imagine what, you know, as a whole, we're going to create.

06:16:07.940 --> 06:16:12.240
Yeah, and I was going to say, here's the funniest segue you'll hear all night.

06:16:12.880 --> 06:16:15.840
From the young to the old, how about our good friend, Rax?

06:16:15.840 --> 06:16:18.400
Oh, he's doing great.

06:16:18.500 --> 06:16:20.840
I see him a lot more lately.

06:16:21.000 --> 06:16:23.080
We saw him at the BinRev meeting.

06:16:23.460 --> 06:16:23.740
Yeah.

06:16:24.040 --> 06:16:27.700
He's got various business ventures, you know, smart guys.

06:16:28.320 --> 06:16:30.500
He's always thinking about stuff like that.

06:16:30.840 --> 06:16:34.840
Showing off the bus at DEF CON, showing off the automobile.

06:16:36.620 --> 06:16:37.020
The what?

06:16:37.120 --> 06:16:38.000
Oh, short bus.

06:16:38.100 --> 06:16:39.000
Yeah, the automobile.

06:16:39.540 --> 06:16:40.500
That is a pimp ride.

06:16:40.640 --> 06:16:41.820
I think it's a midlife crisis.

06:16:41.980 --> 06:16:44.680
Yeah, he actually gave my dad a ride over to our BinRev meeting.

06:16:44.680 --> 06:16:45.360
That was awful nice.

06:16:45.360 --> 06:16:45.940
Oh, no shit.

06:16:46.060 --> 06:16:46.580
Oh, that's cool.

06:16:47.020 --> 06:16:49.380
Hopefully, he kept it straight and narrow.

06:16:49.900 --> 06:16:50.720
I don't know.

06:16:51.360 --> 06:16:54.500
I didn't hear any stories from dad or anything, so I guess everything went well.

06:16:55.760 --> 06:16:57.660
I don't know how my dad squeezed in that little car.

06:16:57.720 --> 06:16:59.500
But anyway, it's a whole different story.

06:17:00.200 --> 06:17:01.260
Rax is definitely around.

06:17:01.360 --> 06:17:02.800
You hear from him on a regular basis.

06:17:02.940 --> 06:17:04.540
So do I on a fairly regular basis.

06:17:04.540 --> 06:17:12.580
So he's definitely still in the scene and still fairly active in a lot of different things and also doing well in life.

06:17:12.960 --> 06:17:16.900
You know, he's also on a good, upbeat moment right now.

06:17:16.960 --> 06:17:17.540
So that's good.

06:17:18.360 --> 06:17:19.960
Yeah, definitely.

06:17:20.260 --> 06:17:23.120
And the thing is, he's absolutely changed and grown.

06:17:23.320 --> 06:17:23.600
He does.

06:17:23.780 --> 06:17:24.400
I don't see him.

06:17:24.460 --> 06:17:24.780
I don't know.

06:17:25.060 --> 06:17:28.720
I don't want to drop any thoughts, but he's enlightened now.

06:17:28.780 --> 06:17:29.460
I should say that.

06:17:29.460 --> 06:17:48.040
I don't think it's any secret that he was very Zen, believed a lot in that, and pursues that, and helps keep him grounded, as he says, and helps keep his thoughts together, and it's very healthy for him.

06:17:48.140 --> 06:17:53.600
It was on Hack TV, the art of Zen on his bookshelf.

06:17:53.880 --> 06:17:57.700
It's something that helps him focus a lot and is very healthy for him.

06:17:58.240 --> 06:17:59.120
Right, right.

06:17:59.900 --> 06:18:02.920
You know, this next person is actually kind of out of the scene.

06:18:04.340 --> 06:18:06.840
And actually, I'll put two of these back to back.

06:18:06.940 --> 06:18:10.200
The first one, of course, is both of our mutual friend, the Bland Inquisitor.

06:18:11.460 --> 06:18:13.360
Bland's a working man.

06:18:13.540 --> 06:18:14.920
Bland's doing the real life thing.

06:18:15.060 --> 06:18:18.480
However, you talk to him on a very, very regular basis.

06:18:19.080 --> 06:18:20.740
And you guys took that trip to Japan, right?

06:18:21.860 --> 06:18:26.660
Yeah, we went to, I'm sure everybody who listens to the show probably may remember.

06:18:26.660 --> 06:18:29.840
We pimped the Tokyo.duelsandnew.com plan, and then I went to Tokyo.

06:18:30.120 --> 06:18:34.040
And because of that, now I'm taking my life to Paris tomorrow.

06:18:34.040 --> 06:18:40.860
So, we, yeah, Bland's doing, he's on the scene, you know, which is absolutely cool.

06:18:41.080 --> 06:18:45.580
He still is a technology aficionado, let's say.

06:18:45.720 --> 06:18:46.720
Oh, he's still a hacker.

06:18:46.740 --> 06:18:47.920
He keeps his skills up.

06:18:48.040 --> 06:18:48.160
Yeah.

06:18:48.240 --> 06:18:50.000
Well, you know, he can't, you know.

06:18:50.000 --> 06:18:51.580
Once a hacker, always a hacker.

06:18:51.700 --> 06:18:53.340
It's a state of mind, you know.

06:18:53.460 --> 06:18:56.820
He may not like the label, per se, but.

06:18:57.560 --> 06:18:58.400
Oh, it so is.

06:18:58.440 --> 06:18:59.640
He can't escape it, you know.

06:18:59.640 --> 06:18:59.760
Exactly.

06:18:59.760 --> 06:19:02.580
He would just be talking about something, and he'd be like, oh, but you do this.

06:19:02.620 --> 06:19:04.800
I'm like, dude, you're not doing it.

06:19:05.140 --> 06:19:05.620
Exactly.

06:19:06.420 --> 06:19:07.260
I'll tell you this.

06:19:07.280 --> 06:19:08.040
He drank the Kool-Aid.

06:19:08.120 --> 06:19:08.940
He bought a Mac.

06:19:09.480 --> 06:19:10.200
Oh, no.

06:19:10.820 --> 06:19:11.460
A Mac.

06:19:11.540 --> 06:19:12.420
Yeah, that's right.

06:19:12.500 --> 06:19:12.980
That's right.

06:19:13.240 --> 06:19:14.520
Now, we both got the Mac.

06:19:14.520 --> 06:19:20.860
He was a musician, though, and the Mac is very musician-friendly for a lot of music people

06:19:20.860 --> 06:19:21.500
like the Mac.

06:19:22.240 --> 06:19:22.480
Yeah.

06:19:22.580 --> 06:19:25.940
So, apparently, there must be some good software for music on that, so.

06:19:26.620 --> 06:19:27.020
Absolutely.

06:19:27.700 --> 06:19:31.160
Another person who's kind of been out of the scene is our good friend Logan Five.

06:19:32.520 --> 06:19:34.820
I really have, I haven't heard a whole lot from him.

06:19:34.880 --> 06:19:42.280
Last time I spoke to Logan, him and his girlfriend were actually considering moving to Germany.

06:19:43.800 --> 06:19:44.240
What?

06:19:44.240 --> 06:19:48.660
Yeah, but he actually kind of pulled out of the scene because, same thing, focusing on

06:19:48.660 --> 06:19:49.020
a job.

06:19:49.100 --> 06:19:53.680
He had gotten a new job, and it was taking up a lot of his time, you know, working that

06:19:53.680 --> 06:19:59.720
50, 60 hours a week kind of deal, and, you know, focusing, trying to get the real-life,

06:19:59.820 --> 06:20:03.140
family-life world working well, which he did.

06:20:03.220 --> 06:20:07.980
So, he's doing really well the last time I spoke to him, and I think the last time we

06:20:07.980 --> 06:20:10.040
physically saw him was at Hope Five.

06:20:10.980 --> 06:20:13.020
Yeah, it's been a long time, and I've heard nothing.

06:20:13.020 --> 06:20:20.520
I mean, you know, honestly, I, in my, like, in this romantic fantasy, you know, he was

06:20:20.520 --> 06:20:25.980
like, and you'll understand, because I'm my, like, big kaiju fan, the dude he could do,

06:20:26.060 --> 06:20:27.480
like, so much, he's so creative.

06:20:27.760 --> 06:20:32.720
I just, I always pictured him, he kind of, he ran off to Japan, and he was doing, like,

06:20:32.760 --> 06:20:36.400
rubber suit movies, like, you know, making the props and the explosion, you know what I

06:20:36.400 --> 06:20:40.600
mean, in the cities that, you know, going with tampons, special effects, you know.

06:20:40.680 --> 06:20:44.160
Yep, he's our effects guy, our graphics guy, he was really good at that, and that's a good

06:20:44.160 --> 06:20:49.060
takeaway into another person, Cypher X, who was also one of our graphics guys, who got

06:20:49.060 --> 06:20:53.220
married, and did the whole real-life thing, so that's kind of why he stepped out of the

06:20:53.220 --> 06:20:53.960
scene for a little while.

06:20:53.960 --> 06:21:00.300
Well, however, I do email him pretty frequently, semi-frequently, and he's actually been working

06:21:00.300 --> 06:21:04.980
on a couple things lately, so I do keep in touch with him, so he's doing well.

06:21:06.000 --> 06:21:07.820
And you haven't dropped those things, have you?

06:21:08.580 --> 06:21:10.760
Nothing, nope, nope, nothing to drop.

06:21:10.860 --> 06:21:11.080
Okay, okay.

06:21:11.220 --> 06:21:12.800
Nothing to drop, no hints, no nothing.

06:21:13.780 --> 06:21:14.460
Once we, you know.

06:21:14.640 --> 06:21:15.240
Moving on.

06:21:15.360 --> 06:21:15.580
Yep.

06:21:15.720 --> 06:21:19.060
Well, you know, and that's another reason that, you know, it's time for Binary Revolution Radio

06:21:19.060 --> 06:21:23.100
to end here with episode 200, is because other things to do, you know, there's other

06:21:23.100 --> 06:21:24.160
projects, and, you know.

06:21:24.160 --> 06:21:27.580
You know, I don't even think you should say that, that it's ending, it's over.

06:21:27.780 --> 06:21:31.260
No, it's like, it's like a new beginning, it's moving on to something else.

06:21:31.660 --> 06:21:36.800
Well, the radio show is ending, but, yeah, the radio show may be ending, but the revolution

06:21:36.800 --> 06:21:37.640
is continual.

06:21:38.160 --> 06:21:39.060
Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

06:21:39.180 --> 06:21:43.380
It's like, okay, well, that now is just, now resources will go to other projects, you

06:21:43.380 --> 06:21:43.480
know?

06:21:43.700 --> 06:21:45.040
Exactly, and that's one of the benefits.

06:21:45.160 --> 06:21:48.100
That's what I was trying to say, is the benefits are that we will be able to focus on other

06:21:48.100 --> 06:21:52.060
projects that we've unfortunately, so we've got so many projects that are in, that

06:21:52.060 --> 06:21:56.500
are being worked on right now, and that are, you know, halfway done that we'll be able

06:21:56.500 --> 06:22:01.360
to focus on again, so, no, it's definitely a good thing, and, you know, it's not completely

06:22:01.360 --> 06:22:05.500
out of the question that maybe somewhere down the road Binary Revolution Radio could come

06:22:05.500 --> 06:22:09.460
back, but, I don't know, I feel, I feel like this is pretty good closure.

06:22:09.580 --> 06:22:13.940
Episode 200, four years, I feel fulfilled, you know, I do.

06:22:14.040 --> 06:22:16.100
I feel like it's, I feel like it's time.

06:22:16.820 --> 06:22:18.460
You should be proud of your body of work.

06:22:18.460 --> 06:22:20.740
You feel the same way about RFA, I know that.

06:22:21.860 --> 06:22:22.740
Yeah, yeah.

06:22:22.900 --> 06:22:23.660
Episode 100.

06:22:23.880 --> 06:22:27.440
Not quite as, not quite as extensive, but, uh.

06:22:27.620 --> 06:22:34.020
Yeah, but the, no, that's, two years of RFA was a pretty long time as well, and that feeling,

06:22:34.120 --> 06:22:38.540
you know, you just know when it's time, and, you know, as fun as it is doing it, at some

06:22:38.540 --> 06:22:41.400
point you have to reprioritize things, and.

06:22:41.760 --> 06:22:42.140
All right.

06:22:42.140 --> 06:22:44.260
You know, this is one of those times, I think.

06:22:45.300 --> 06:22:49.680
So, I can focus on things like, for example, Hack TV, I haven't, that's not, that's something

06:22:49.680 --> 06:22:54.560
I wish I had more time to work on, and something I have not, um, had the time to work on, and,

06:22:54.660 --> 06:22:59.680
and one of our co-hosts on the show, Saitu 187, a good friend of mine who helped me get

06:22:59.680 --> 06:23:04.720
Hack TV started, should have taught me basically video editing, basic video editing, and taught

06:23:04.720 --> 06:23:08.920
me everything I know about it to get started with, and, um, Dr. Zygman came in later and

06:23:08.920 --> 06:23:13.680
taught me a lot more, but Saito, he's doing well, he's since been married, a long time

06:23:13.680 --> 06:23:18.260
ago, so he's been married for a while now, and I actually still pocket dial him on occasion,

06:23:18.440 --> 06:23:22.580
I'll, I'll have my phone in my pocket, and I'll look down, and he's connected for some

06:23:22.580 --> 06:23:26.260
reason, I don't know why his name, out of all of the things, comes up, but I must hit

06:23:26.260 --> 06:23:29.700
the right buttons to pocket dial him, and I'll go, hey, how you been?

06:23:31.440 --> 06:23:32.440
So, that's good.

06:23:33.560 --> 06:23:38.680
Um, Voodoo Hal, Voodoo Hal, boy, he was always a good friend, um, I have heard from him lately,

06:23:38.680 --> 06:23:43.780
he's doing well, alive and well, he goes to Freaknik, um, I think it's just about every

06:23:43.780 --> 06:23:48.240
year, and, uh, try to get to Inner Zone, he's a, you know, a Southeast region kind of guy,

06:23:48.320 --> 06:23:54.580
so he can make it to the local cons, but another working man, um, see him pop into IRC occasionally

06:23:54.580 --> 06:23:59.800
as well, uh, brilliant guy, brilliant guy, yeah, he doesn't have, again, he doesn't have

06:23:59.800 --> 06:24:03.480
a whole lot of time, but yeah, he's popped in, and I've come home to a message, I idle in

06:24:03.480 --> 06:24:07.500
there, and I'll come home and see messages from him, or Quine, or somebody will email me,

06:24:07.500 --> 06:24:11.760
or message me, and I'm not there to respond, but, um, he's popped in once or twice, and

06:24:11.760 --> 06:24:15.680
actually, I spoke to him on the phone, it's been probably a couple months now, but he's

06:24:15.680 --> 06:24:20.260
still around, still doing well, and just living life, like all of us, you know?

06:24:20.980 --> 06:24:28.180
Yeah, I saw him at a con over a year ago, yeah, uh, yeah, it was really neat hanging out

06:24:28.180 --> 06:24:28.440
with him.

06:24:28.440 --> 06:24:33.560
Um, let's see, who else, who else, uh, Not Theory, well, Not Theory heard at the top

06:24:33.560 --> 06:24:38.320
of the show, so we all know Not Theory's still around, Not Theory is also probably, you

06:24:38.320 --> 06:24:43.440
know, one of my absolute best friends in this scene, I talk to him, you know, some weeks

06:24:43.440 --> 06:24:47.240
we'll go by talking every single day, you know, but I talk to him a couple times a week

06:24:47.240 --> 06:24:52.760
on average, he's, he's one of my good friends, and, um, yeah, he and I are working on some

06:24:52.760 --> 06:24:58.780
stuff, uh, right now as well, that hopefully we'll be announcing soon, um, he's a freak,

06:24:59.020 --> 06:25:07.800
he's a, he's just a freak, man, he's just, you guys don't even know how much this guy works,

06:25:07.800 --> 06:25:15.960
I mean, we couldn't do justice explaining it, right, he works sun up to sun down, and he

06:25:15.960 --> 06:25:22.180
doesn't stop when the sun goes down, he works through the night, and he just, oh, man, I

06:25:22.180 --> 06:25:27.140
went through, it's, it's because he's been fully cyberized, exactly, I think he's just a

06:25:27.140 --> 06:25:34.000
crackhead, and he, yeah, he's got the, he's got a continuous link to the net, exactly, through

06:25:34.000 --> 06:25:40.880
this type of brain, so that's, oh, yeah, um, yeah, plus all the crack he smokes, yep,

06:25:41.280 --> 06:25:48.540
night of the living base heads, there you go, um, he, oh, my God, it's insane how much

06:25:48.540 --> 06:25:52.760
he works, you know, when I was that age, maybe I got away with it, but now, no way, man,

06:25:52.800 --> 06:25:57.300
he, he makes me tired hearing him talk about how much he's working on, I get tired just

06:25:57.300 --> 06:26:03.100
listening, um, um, you know, this next person on my list, I'm going to save until later, because

06:26:03.100 --> 06:26:09.360
that's a longer story, and I'm sure you know who I'm talking about, so, um, MC Frontalot,

06:26:09.540 --> 06:26:14.860
MC Frontalot, who actually was on, uh, the first episode of season four, I believe, was

06:26:14.860 --> 06:26:20.460
it, Hope number six, or was it the first episode of season three, or four, I forgot, um,

06:26:20.660 --> 06:26:28.100
For the fans being cut out, piss me off, yeah, the, uh, the, um, the whole recording of that

06:26:28.100 --> 06:26:32.720
presentation got chopped off at the end, that sucked, um, but you know what, he actually

06:26:32.720 --> 06:26:38.180
had kind of an appearance on Binary Revolution Radio before that episode, we'd used his music

06:26:38.180 --> 06:26:41.880
several times to close out for our closing music, it was actually Blandin Quisseter who

06:26:41.880 --> 06:26:47.240
turned me on to him, yeah, yeah, Blandin's always a big champion, and, and back then, you

06:26:47.240 --> 06:26:51.860
know, Frontalot barely even had a website up, it was mostly on Song Fight, where he went

06:26:51.860 --> 06:26:56.220
out and made a couple things as, uh, you know, just for the fun of it, just, uh, you know,

06:26:56.220 --> 06:27:00.780
participating in Song Fight, which Blandin also was into at the time, and, and actually

06:27:00.780 --> 06:27:06.000
I was, I used a lot of Song Fight stuff on our closing music, songfight.org, and, uh,

06:27:06.120 --> 06:27:11.540
boy, looking at him from then to now, released a second album, you know, good friend of mine,

06:27:11.980 --> 06:27:17.040
you know, we host his website, he's doing really, really well, and is, you know, actually

06:27:17.040 --> 06:27:21.160
doing the whole Frontalot thing full time now, trying to make that work, so, yeah, he's

06:27:21.160 --> 06:27:23.940
in concert, actually, got a, got a picture with him, so.

06:27:23.940 --> 06:27:26.860
And, if you would have just stayed a little bit longer, you got some shout-outs, too,

06:27:26.940 --> 06:27:27.140
but.

06:27:28.080 --> 06:27:28.500
I did?

06:27:29.220 --> 06:27:29.540
Yes.

06:27:30.120 --> 06:27:31.040
Get out of here.

06:27:31.080 --> 06:27:35.420
He was on stage, yes, and he, I, I talked to him, like, five minutes before he went on

06:27:35.420 --> 06:27:36.060
that performance.

06:27:37.300 --> 06:27:39.260
I told him you guys were in the audience, yeah.

06:27:39.260 --> 06:27:44.800
I'm old, so, I, like, staying out past 11 is, like, wow, it's a big deal for me, so.

06:27:44.980 --> 06:27:49.660
Yeah, yeah, boy, I know the feeling, it's getting late here now, but, um, oh, speaking of

06:27:49.660 --> 06:27:51.620
music, I guess a good segue into Zerl.

06:27:51.620 --> 06:27:55.040
I mean, Zerl was on, I was just going to ask you that, what happened to Zerl?

06:27:55.160 --> 06:28:00.420
Well, Zerl's, Zerl's alive and well, I don't talk to him frequently, I do email him and

06:28:00.420 --> 06:28:05.320
his brother on occasion, um, still hosting their website, they're still, you know, have

06:28:05.320 --> 06:28:08.420
it, re-register it, it's still, you know, they're still around, they're still alive.

06:28:08.980 --> 06:28:13.420
Zerl was a studying motherfucker, Zerl was all about the school, Zerl was concentrating

06:28:13.420 --> 06:28:16.260
and doing stuff, he's probably a doctor by now, to be honest with you.

06:28:16.680 --> 06:28:17.000
Right.

06:28:17.180 --> 06:28:21.700
You know, he was, it was all about the school, so he kind of let the music thing slide, you

06:28:21.700 --> 06:28:25.660
know, we, he'd always been working on, and I, he and I bounced some lyrics back and forth,

06:28:25.760 --> 06:28:30.260
even, he even let me try to help out with, um, Hackers and Crackers 2.0, the new version

06:28:30.260 --> 06:28:33.360
of the song, but just never quite got around to getting it out there.

06:28:33.420 --> 06:28:36.020
He got some lyrics down on paper, but never quite got it recorded.

06:28:36.020 --> 06:28:38.280
Did he ever press the CD?

06:28:39.020 --> 06:28:39.340
I'm sorry?

06:28:39.980 --> 06:28:40.940
Did he ever press the CD?

06:28:41.520 --> 06:28:43.260
No, because he didn't really believe in it.

06:28:43.500 --> 06:28:46.000
He believed completely that music should be free.

06:28:46.100 --> 06:28:48.580
He absolutely thought everything should be out there.

06:28:48.980 --> 06:28:53.820
He, the albums, he put them together as albums to be downloaded from the website, but nothing

06:28:53.820 --> 06:28:55.060
was ever pressed or sold.

06:28:55.220 --> 06:28:55.380
Nope.

06:28:55.920 --> 06:28:56.760
Yeah, that's interesting.

06:28:57.040 --> 06:28:57.240
Yep.

06:28:58.080 --> 06:28:59.120
Uh, let's see, who else?

06:28:59.160 --> 06:29:02.360
Oh, another one of my close friends, personal friend I know in real life, ZeroDB.

06:29:02.360 --> 06:29:07.320
And I do still talk to him once in a while, whenever I head down to Miami, um, we always

06:29:07.320 --> 06:29:09.420
try to get together and go out and have a bite to eat.

06:29:09.840 --> 06:29:13.500
Um, he moved as well, which of course is a big deal.

06:29:13.840 --> 06:29:17.560
Um, still doing the same job, still as knowledgeable as ever.

06:29:17.680 --> 06:29:18.600
I mean, the guy's brilliant.

06:29:19.120 --> 06:29:24.620
And actually, funny backstory here, and you'll laugh at this too, because I've always been

06:29:24.620 --> 06:29:28.420
somebody who absolutely hated history, can't stand history, don't like the history channel,

06:29:28.500 --> 06:29:31.480
whatever, but ZeroDB is a big, a big history buff.

06:29:31.480 --> 06:29:36.980
Well, doggone it, I guess it finally rubbed off on me, because I find myself watching a

06:29:36.980 --> 06:29:41.000
lot of history stuff now, getting interested in things that never, maybe it's an age thing,

06:29:41.080 --> 06:29:45.320
maybe it's just him rubbing off on me, because he really enjoys it, and hearing him tell

06:29:45.320 --> 06:29:48.480
me some of these stories, it actually made it interesting for me, I don't know.

06:29:48.700 --> 06:29:53.020
Yeah, I think, I think honestly, I just think like smart people are into history, so I'm

06:29:53.020 --> 06:29:54.620
just like not down, you know?

06:29:54.620 --> 06:29:57.120
Yeah, I think I'm living proof that's not true.

06:29:57.120 --> 06:29:58.120
Like boring, it's uh...

06:29:58.120 --> 06:30:04.040
Oh, and he, the other thing, he and I, it's kind of in our tradition, we both take a week

06:30:04.040 --> 06:30:07.300
of our vacation, head up to New York City for hope every year, so we always go up there,

06:30:07.420 --> 06:30:11.960
stay in a hotel in Manhattan somewhere, we do the whole New York thing, we go have a

06:30:11.960 --> 06:30:17.200
blast, we go out and you know, do whatever we, we feel like, we'll hit some of the sightseeing

06:30:17.200 --> 06:30:21.560
type deals, sometimes we'll just wander the streets of New York City at two, three in

06:30:21.560 --> 06:30:26.800
the morning, so we always do that as our biannual tradition, so we should be doing that

06:30:26.800 --> 06:30:31.180
this upcoming year, we've already talked about it actually, so looking forward to that.

06:30:31.240 --> 06:30:35.200
Also down in South Florida, my friend Cy Pete, he's been on the show a few times, he's

06:30:35.200 --> 06:30:39.180
still down in South Florida, he actually came to our, he came to DEFCON this last year and

06:30:39.180 --> 06:30:44.320
came to our get together, what we had, that we had over at that, what is that mall, I forget

06:30:44.320 --> 06:30:47.940
the name of it, where we had, where I gave the presentation, we probably had about 30

06:30:47.940 --> 06:30:50.400
plus people there, so he came to that.

06:30:50.420 --> 06:30:54.080
Oh, I don't remember what that's called, not the Metro, that's San Francisco.

06:30:55.040 --> 06:30:57.840
Yeah, it's right on the tip of my tongue, I guess it's not important, the name of the

06:30:57.840 --> 06:30:58.040
mall.

06:30:58.260 --> 06:30:58.480
Okay.

06:30:59.620 --> 06:31:03.620
Acidus, Acidus, one of my favorite hosts, one of my good friends, he's actually kind of

06:31:03.620 --> 06:31:08.480
fallen off the grid a little bit, I think part of that might be due to engagement slash

06:31:08.480 --> 06:31:12.460
married life, I don't know if he's actually, I think he is, I think he's, I'm not sure

06:31:12.460 --> 06:31:14.300
if he's officially married, I don't want to say that he is and not

06:31:14.300 --> 06:31:18.280
be, but if I say that he's not, is that a worse insult than to say he is?

06:31:18.740 --> 06:31:23.820
I know he was on that border, so I don't know if he's gotten married by now, but he's

06:31:23.820 --> 06:31:28.920
working a lot, still doing research, he presents all the time at different conferences, and

06:31:28.920 --> 06:31:32.100
I actually have not bumped into him for a while and was looking forward to seeing him

06:31:32.100 --> 06:31:38.000
at DEFCON, and he did not make it to DEFCON this past year, unfortunately, but still a good

06:31:38.000 --> 06:31:41.300
guy, and I've left him a couple of voicemails, so hopefully I'll be hearing from him again

06:31:41.300 --> 06:31:50.040
soon, and Decius, also from the ATL, representing Atlanta, representing the down south, he's

06:31:50.040 --> 06:31:55.000
still doing security research, we swap emails occasionally, and you know, we usually bump

06:31:55.000 --> 06:31:58.500
into each other at conferences, he makes it to most of the same conferences I do, so I

06:31:58.500 --> 06:32:05.940
always see him, let's see, how about Buck Dangler, Buster Cheek Spreader, and Mr. Pink, and

06:32:05.940 --> 06:32:10.780
who else, what was your alter ego?

06:32:12.080 --> 06:32:16.400
I don't remember, I thought that was Buster Hyman.

06:32:16.400 --> 06:32:21.960
Buster, no, don't you remember the backstory there, where we did the point episode of

06:32:21.960 --> 06:32:31.220
RFA, and we looked up our, well, but at the very end, I don't remember what Bland's name

06:32:31.220 --> 06:32:35.120
was in the beginning, but we all picked, you know, we all were randomized, picked our names

06:32:35.120 --> 06:32:38.820
or whatever, and then when we went live on there, he changed at the last minute, and had

06:32:38.820 --> 06:32:42.280
us both cracking up laughing so bad, that I almost couldn't do the show.

06:32:42.900 --> 06:32:44.780
God, that's funny, he's a funny motherfucker.

06:32:44.920 --> 06:32:49.480
Yeah, that was good stuff, man, so they've all gone off to the Prawn Retirement home,

06:32:49.560 --> 06:32:49.920
I think.

06:32:51.560 --> 06:32:56.020
Might be the last we've ever heard of them, unless there's, you know, there's an episode

06:32:56.020 --> 06:32:57.500
If that comes in a bag, what?

06:32:57.900 --> 06:33:03.140
If there's an episode 69 of a show, you never know, they might come back for a little cameo

06:33:03.140 --> 06:33:07.740
or something, but they're off to Prawn Retirement, whatever that means.

06:33:07.740 --> 06:33:09.880
I hope that means, oh, I hope that doesn't mean Lemon Party.

06:33:11.200 --> 06:33:12.340
Yeah, absolutely.

06:33:12.900 --> 06:33:13.600
That's hot.

06:33:17.200 --> 06:33:17.960
What about my friend?

06:33:18.080 --> 06:33:19.780
I got one, well, I didn't really get it.

06:33:19.840 --> 06:33:23.300
I did get people at work, which is great, but what am I, oh, never mind, I'm not even

06:33:23.300 --> 06:33:24.800
good, never mind, never mind, move on.

06:33:25.700 --> 06:33:27.340
Let's see, move on, how about another?

06:33:27.340 --> 06:33:32.160
All I can say is that, you know what, being in the hacker community is wonderful, it's beautiful

06:33:32.160 --> 06:33:37.160
being, you know, kind of, you know, you're familiar with the internet, all of them,

06:33:37.160 --> 06:33:41.920
and the Global and the Regional, so you already know about things like Goatzee, Tough Girl,

06:33:42.080 --> 06:33:43.580
Lemon Party, Spurs.

06:33:43.980 --> 06:33:46.240
I am so turned on right now.

06:33:46.760 --> 06:33:50.700
S.E.A., all that stuff, glass coffee tables, you know what I'm saying?

06:33:50.840 --> 06:33:54.380
It's like, you're hardened, you're hardened.

06:33:54.900 --> 06:33:55.160
Okay.

06:33:55.440 --> 06:33:55.740
Yeah.

06:33:55.960 --> 06:33:57.160
Oh, I'm hardened all right.

06:34:00.300 --> 06:34:03.180
Oh, that was like an underhand.

06:34:03.320 --> 06:34:05.180
That was like a softball right there.

06:34:05.700 --> 06:34:06.620
Oh, man.

06:34:06.820 --> 06:34:07.400
You know what?

06:34:07.440 --> 06:34:09.640
We still have fun in the show right up to the final episode.

06:34:09.760 --> 06:34:10.540
You've got to admit that.

06:34:10.580 --> 06:34:11.880
We've always had fun in the show.

06:34:12.580 --> 06:34:12.980
Absolutely.

06:34:13.360 --> 06:34:14.220
Why do I do it?

06:34:15.040 --> 06:34:15.440
Exactly.

06:34:15.740 --> 06:34:16.140
Exactly.

06:34:16.140 --> 06:34:20.800
You know, and that's certainly not the reason we're ending the show because I'm still having fun doing the show every time.

06:34:21.480 --> 06:34:23.400
El Diablo, another friend of mine from Miami.

06:34:23.400 --> 06:34:27.480
He and I co-founded the DC305 Miami DEFCON meeting.

06:34:28.080 --> 06:34:28.900
He's doing well.

06:34:29.080 --> 06:34:30.600
I talk to him occasionally.

06:34:30.880 --> 06:34:33.040
I haven't heard from him recently.

06:34:33.960 --> 06:34:37.720
I don't know if he's changed numbers or whatever, but I'm sure he'll get back in touch with me.

06:34:37.900 --> 06:34:41.680
But I run into him at conferences, and we run in some of the same circles.

06:34:41.800 --> 06:34:46.380
We have some mutual friends in common, so I'm sure I'll catch back up with him very soon.

06:34:46.480 --> 06:34:49.460
But definitely somebody that I know is around and is doing well.

06:34:50.700 --> 06:34:51.220
Let's see.

06:34:51.360 --> 06:34:51.720
Natus.

06:34:51.880 --> 06:34:52.560
Natus, of course.

06:34:52.560 --> 06:34:53.400
We all know Natus.

06:34:53.460 --> 06:34:54.060
Natus is great.

06:34:54.180 --> 06:34:57.820
Natus is running this old, broke-down site called Old School Freak.

06:34:59.440 --> 06:34:59.760
Ghetto.

06:35:00.560 --> 06:35:00.880
Ghetto.

06:35:01.520 --> 06:35:04.560
No, he's been doing a great job running Old School Freak, I think.

06:35:04.680 --> 06:35:06.620
But I guess that's really your determination to make.

06:35:07.620 --> 06:35:08.200
Oh, absolutely.

06:35:08.640 --> 06:35:09.160
That's great.

06:35:09.580 --> 06:35:10.720
He always has good content.

06:35:10.940 --> 06:35:12.200
I'm just, wow.

06:35:12.400 --> 06:35:12.740
It's amazing.

06:35:12.980 --> 06:35:14.460
Yeah, it's still doing well.

06:35:14.600 --> 06:35:16.380
Still lots of people visiting the site.

06:35:16.480 --> 06:35:17.400
Still putting up content.

06:35:18.180 --> 06:35:18.620
Oh, yeah.

06:35:18.800 --> 06:35:20.220
Natus is just a hustler, man.

06:35:20.320 --> 06:35:22.020
Natus is hustling on a daily basis.

06:35:22.680 --> 06:35:24.560
He's rolling with the tennis chain and the...

06:35:24.560 --> 06:35:24.860
Yeah.

06:35:25.360 --> 06:35:26.280
Hey, Natus is...

06:35:26.280 --> 06:35:29.400
Natus knows how to dress, right?

06:35:31.280 --> 06:35:32.600
Natus is living large.

06:35:32.820 --> 06:35:33.820
I was totally...

06:35:33.820 --> 06:35:36.020
Dude, he had like girls putty in his hand.

06:35:36.120 --> 06:35:36.700
I set him up.

06:35:36.820 --> 06:35:37.180
It was...

06:35:37.180 --> 06:35:37.440
Anyway.

06:35:37.980 --> 06:35:38.900
Maybe I didn't set him up.

06:35:38.960 --> 06:35:39.260
I remember.

06:35:39.500 --> 06:35:42.220
Hey, Natus is living large and chilling like a villain.

06:35:42.900 --> 06:35:43.220
That's right.

06:35:43.220 --> 06:35:46.060
Oh, here's one of my all-time favorites.

06:35:46.220 --> 06:35:47.760
My homegirl, Ilanka.

06:35:48.620 --> 06:35:50.080
Oh, so nice.

06:35:50.140 --> 06:35:51.960
One of my favorite guests on the show.

06:35:52.600 --> 06:35:56.060
I can never say enough nice things to do justice for her.

06:35:56.080 --> 06:35:59.620
She's just such a good human being, you know?

06:35:59.760 --> 06:36:04.700
And that's so much more important than everything else in the world to me.

06:36:05.480 --> 06:36:05.960
You know?

06:36:06.580 --> 06:36:07.220
So many...

06:36:07.220 --> 06:36:07.400
Yeah, yeah.

06:36:07.400 --> 06:36:08.020
She's really nice.

06:36:08.120 --> 06:36:09.420
I met her the one time at DEFCON.

06:36:09.540 --> 06:36:10.380
She's really nice.

06:36:10.540 --> 06:36:15.920
That's probably one of the things that's most disappointing and that hurts me the most in my heart, you know, in my soul,

06:36:15.920 --> 06:36:20.520
is to meet somebody who's brilliant, but it's just an ass.

06:36:20.640 --> 06:36:22.920
They just waste it and they just...

06:36:23.440 --> 06:36:25.220
Whether it's elitism or...

06:36:25.220 --> 06:36:26.080
I mean, it's just...

06:36:26.080 --> 06:36:27.840
It hurts my soul.

06:36:28.340 --> 06:36:32.720
You could be so much more if you just would get the attitude in the right place.

06:36:32.800 --> 06:36:34.660
You could accomplish so much.

06:36:35.560 --> 06:36:40.500
And boy, Ilanka is the definition of a good person who's accomplishing great things.

06:36:40.800 --> 06:36:41.360
She was on...

06:36:41.360 --> 06:36:42.160
I don't know if you saw this.

06:36:42.200 --> 06:36:45.600
She was on one of my favorite shows, Nova Science Now.

06:36:45.600 --> 06:36:47.280
She had a segment on Kryptos there.

06:36:47.920 --> 06:36:51.600
I listen to Nova Science Now on podcast now for a long time.

06:36:51.660 --> 06:36:52.400
It's one of my favorites.

06:36:52.840 --> 06:36:54.560
She was on the new TV show that started out.

06:36:54.840 --> 06:36:56.000
I'm so jealous of that.

06:36:56.540 --> 06:36:58.720
So she's definitely doing a lot of stuff.

06:36:58.820 --> 06:37:02.960
She's still around and definitely love talking to her.

06:37:04.320 --> 06:37:04.440
All right.

06:37:04.540 --> 06:37:04.740
Here's...

06:37:04.740 --> 06:37:06.680
I'm getting up against it.

06:37:06.940 --> 06:37:07.280
Uh-oh.

06:37:07.380 --> 06:37:07.620
All right.

06:37:07.680 --> 06:37:07.980
Well, here.

06:37:08.100 --> 06:37:08.820
Let's do...

06:37:08.820 --> 06:37:12.060
We got a small handful here and I'll let you do this one, of course, Slip Mode.

06:37:12.280 --> 06:37:14.560
Good friend of ours, but that's your boy Slip Mode.

06:37:14.560 --> 06:37:15.140
How's he doing?

06:37:15.600 --> 06:37:16.600
Yeah, he's doing well.

06:37:16.680 --> 06:37:17.440
I have to say he's in meetings.

06:37:17.640 --> 06:37:18.640
He's got, you know, he's got life.

06:37:18.740 --> 06:37:19.280
He's got work.

06:37:19.480 --> 06:37:21.960
He's kind of a, you know, big wig and all.

06:37:22.380 --> 06:37:24.620
All that does cons just...

06:37:24.620 --> 06:37:25.300
And he's a pimp.

06:37:25.360 --> 06:37:25.960
He's like Nottis.

06:37:26.060 --> 06:37:26.420
He's like...

06:37:26.420 --> 06:37:27.280
He's always...

06:37:27.280 --> 06:37:27.480
He's like West Coast.

06:37:27.780 --> 06:37:29.220
He's like Nottis West.

06:37:29.320 --> 06:37:29.560
Yeah.

06:37:29.640 --> 06:37:31.020
He's definitely the pimp, man.

06:37:31.080 --> 06:37:31.940
He's definitely the pimp.

06:37:31.940 --> 06:37:31.960
Yeah.

06:37:32.100 --> 06:37:33.000
The pimp of the crew.

06:37:33.720 --> 06:37:33.940
Yeah.

06:37:33.940 --> 06:37:34.380
Virgil.

06:37:34.460 --> 06:37:35.560
Virgil's another good friend.

06:37:35.760 --> 06:37:36.480
He's doing research.

06:37:36.580 --> 06:37:41.860
He was in the news recently for his Wikipedia, finding what companies are doing, what edits

06:37:41.860 --> 06:37:42.400
the Wikipedia.

06:37:42.580 --> 06:37:43.360
That broke big news.

06:37:43.420 --> 06:37:44.060
He always...

06:37:44.060 --> 06:37:44.560
That's him.

06:37:44.620 --> 06:37:45.800
We were just talking about that.

06:37:45.800 --> 06:37:45.920
Yeah.

06:37:45.920 --> 06:37:47.640
He always breaks big news things.

06:37:47.840 --> 06:37:48.960
He's in New Mexico, too.

06:37:49.000 --> 06:37:49.600
I didn't know that.

06:37:49.620 --> 06:37:49.820
Yeah.

06:37:49.860 --> 06:37:54.860
He's out there doing some serious hardcore research and nanotechnology and biometrics and stuff

06:37:54.860 --> 06:37:55.100
like...

06:37:55.100 --> 06:37:55.800
Not biometrics.

06:37:55.960 --> 06:37:57.220
Biotechnology or something.

06:37:57.460 --> 06:38:00.100
And yeah, he's into some deep shit, man.

06:38:00.140 --> 06:38:00.860
I'm telling you.

06:38:02.240 --> 06:38:03.460
Two quick ones here.

06:38:03.760 --> 06:38:09.220
Droops and Savant, both brand new fathers, brand new daddies, both baby girls.

06:38:09.960 --> 06:38:11.180
Or actually, no, I take that back.

06:38:11.240 --> 06:38:11.440
I'm sorry.

06:38:11.520 --> 06:38:12.840
Savant actually had a baby boy.

06:38:12.980 --> 06:38:13.920
Droops had the baby girl.

06:38:14.420 --> 06:38:14.800
What?

06:38:14.800 --> 06:38:17.420
Savant within the last 24, 48 hours.

06:38:17.620 --> 06:38:19.160
So congrats to both of them.

06:38:19.720 --> 06:38:20.160
Really?

06:38:20.420 --> 06:38:20.780
Yep.

06:38:20.860 --> 06:38:21.260
Wow.

06:38:21.420 --> 06:38:21.680
Yep.

06:38:21.940 --> 06:38:23.160
So I don't even think...

06:38:23.160 --> 06:38:23.340
Yeah.

06:38:23.440 --> 06:38:25.880
I'm sure Savant probably still hasn't slept yet.

06:38:26.520 --> 06:38:27.940
So congrats to them.

06:38:28.020 --> 06:38:28.820
Both good friends.

06:38:28.960 --> 06:38:30.520
They're both doing well.

06:38:30.600 --> 06:38:31.480
Talk to them frequently.

06:38:32.160 --> 06:38:36.620
Dr. Zygman, I mentioned earlier, I actually bumped into him at the BR561 meeting a week or

06:38:36.620 --> 06:38:37.020
two ago.

06:38:37.140 --> 06:38:41.220
So he seems to be doing well and took some time off for some personal stuff that seems to

06:38:41.220 --> 06:38:42.000
be doing okay.

06:38:42.000 --> 06:38:44.280
To Biz from the BR561.

06:38:44.680 --> 06:38:45.620
Talk to him all the time.

06:38:45.680 --> 06:38:46.600
We've been friends in real life.

06:38:46.660 --> 06:38:48.680
We actually used to work together somewhere.

06:38:48.680 --> 06:38:50.560
So I know him for quite a while.

06:38:50.680 --> 06:38:53.280
And when he comes to Orlando to visit, he sticks around.

06:38:53.360 --> 06:38:54.240
We get together.

06:38:54.360 --> 06:38:55.740
And same thing when I go down there.

06:38:56.820 --> 06:38:58.960
Wright Coast from my BR407 meeting.

06:38:59.040 --> 06:39:00.840
He hosted some shows before he's alive and well.

06:39:00.900 --> 06:39:03.040
I see him every month and sometimes in between.

06:39:03.680 --> 06:39:09.880
Actually planning on going out with him, hanging out and checking a shuttle launch sometime soon.

06:39:09.880 --> 06:39:12.160
I'm going to try to find the next night launch, get down and watch it.

06:39:12.220 --> 06:39:12.900
That's going to be awesome.

06:39:13.740 --> 06:39:16.720
And just like three or four more on my list here.

06:39:16.900 --> 06:39:19.240
Seal, current forum administrator, of course.

06:39:19.340 --> 06:39:21.400
We talk to him daily through the forums.

06:39:21.500 --> 06:39:22.080
He's around.

06:39:22.320 --> 06:39:25.820
He's been doing a few real life things and putting out documentaries.

06:39:25.980 --> 06:39:28.160
That guy's put, he does a lot of stuff too.

06:39:28.240 --> 06:39:29.160
He provides a lot of content.

06:39:29.160 --> 06:39:30.280
He creates a lot of things.

06:39:30.620 --> 06:39:35.920
So he's out there balancing between the real life and the interwebs like we all are.

06:39:37.500 --> 06:39:39.020
Documentary is a great art form, by the way.

06:39:39.420 --> 06:39:39.980
Yeah, yeah.

06:39:40.460 --> 06:39:41.400
And Jason Scott.

06:39:41.500 --> 06:39:42.980
Yeah, Jason Scott's worth mentioning too.

06:39:43.040 --> 06:39:43.900
Speaking of documentary.

06:39:43.960 --> 06:39:45.200
With the PBS documentary.

06:39:45.360 --> 06:39:46.840
He's been on the show before as well.

06:39:47.420 --> 06:39:48.220
Can I tell you this?

06:39:48.280 --> 06:39:49.360
I've got a small story.

06:39:49.460 --> 06:39:50.200
I'll take this time.

06:39:50.360 --> 06:39:50.660
Okay.

06:39:51.300 --> 06:39:53.580
I saw him at DEF CON before last.

06:39:54.180 --> 06:39:56.980
And I only had a certain amount of money in my pocket.

06:39:57.120 --> 06:39:58.120
I said, hey, give me one of those documentaries.

06:39:58.240 --> 06:39:59.780
He gave it to me for that money.

06:39:59.780 --> 06:40:00.540
He's like, yeah, of course.

06:40:00.660 --> 06:40:01.380
Sure, here you have it.

06:40:01.960 --> 06:40:02.760
I walked it.

06:40:02.880 --> 06:40:03.200
Amazing.

06:40:03.360 --> 06:40:04.020
Totally amazing.

06:40:04.360 --> 06:40:05.120
Guess what I did?

06:40:05.460 --> 06:40:07.180
For the fucking double A's.

06:40:07.980 --> 06:40:10.160
I saw him at this DEF CON and I gave him the balance.

06:40:10.520 --> 06:40:11.280
I said, that was amazing.

06:40:11.360 --> 06:40:11.800
Here you go.

06:40:11.900 --> 06:40:12.420
Here's the rest.

06:40:13.220 --> 06:40:14.740
He was really appreciative.

06:40:15.100 --> 06:40:15.860
Because guess what?

06:40:16.060 --> 06:40:19.100
He made great content and I was willing to pay for it.

06:40:19.180 --> 06:40:19.960
Right, right.

06:40:19.960 --> 06:40:24.800
And he's another one that falls under that genuinely good person category.

06:40:24.960 --> 06:40:25.240
Oh, yeah.

06:40:25.560 --> 06:40:26.440
He's good people.

06:40:26.620 --> 06:40:27.560
And, yeah, I bumped into him.

06:40:27.560 --> 06:40:30.080
But actually, we talked quite a bit at this past DEF CON.

06:40:30.220 --> 06:40:33.320
And I made sure to go out of my way to go see his talk.

06:40:33.380 --> 06:40:37.020
I always try to go catch talks of all of our friends when they're talking.

06:40:37.280 --> 06:40:39.140
And so many of them speak nowadays.

06:40:39.240 --> 06:40:40.540
All these people have blown up.

06:40:41.660 --> 06:40:42.000
Verbal.

06:40:42.120 --> 06:40:43.080
Verbal, man.

06:40:43.200 --> 06:40:44.420
Verbal's a business man.

06:40:44.500 --> 06:40:46.160
B-I-D-N-E-S.

06:40:46.320 --> 06:40:46.840
Bidness.

06:40:47.120 --> 06:40:47.920
Bidness man.

06:40:47.920 --> 06:40:50.720
And so he's doing the whole business man and real life thing.

06:40:51.160 --> 06:40:52.920
So he hasn't been around too much lately.

06:40:53.040 --> 06:40:54.420
I don't really hear too much from him.

06:40:54.520 --> 06:40:56.980
But I've heard through the grapevine that he's doing well.

06:40:57.120 --> 06:40:58.520
So good luck to him on that.

06:40:59.900 --> 06:41:03.440
Quine, who was one of my BR-407 regulars here.

06:41:03.480 --> 06:41:05.660
He moved up to Boston for a new job doing well.

06:41:06.480 --> 06:41:08.620
He's another one I get an occasional ping in IRC.

06:41:09.020 --> 06:41:11.840
But by the time I get home from work and ping him back, he's already logged off.

06:41:12.000 --> 06:41:14.060
So he's doing well.

06:41:14.640 --> 06:41:19.160
And the last one I have on my list here that's going through the just browsing.

06:41:19.320 --> 06:41:20.220
I hope I didn't miss anybody.

06:41:20.780 --> 06:41:21.500
We've done the show.

06:41:21.660 --> 06:41:22.360
But Booter.

06:41:22.920 --> 06:41:24.260
And, of course, Booter's doing well.

06:41:24.440 --> 06:41:26.280
I always get together with him when I visit.

06:41:26.460 --> 06:41:27.400
You know, I travel for work.

06:41:27.460 --> 06:41:32.360
I'll cut through Houston quite a bit and always try to get together with him and grab something to eat.

06:41:32.360 --> 06:41:36.040
Go hang out, maybe get an actual meeting of all the Houston guys together.

06:41:36.120 --> 06:41:36.780
They're great people.

06:41:37.640 --> 06:41:39.220
But I haven't seen him too much lately.

06:41:39.780 --> 06:41:44.380
I think, and I don't know, but I think Booter might be on pussy lockdown.

06:41:44.520 --> 06:41:45.180
I'm just saying.

06:41:45.820 --> 06:41:47.960
He might be locked down.

06:41:47.960 --> 06:41:48.480
And you know what?

06:41:48.520 --> 06:41:50.360
That's not a bad thing at all.

06:41:51.220 --> 06:41:51.960
Dude, you know what?

06:41:52.100 --> 06:41:56.460
There'd be only three years of BinRev if Cookie Girl got her way.

06:41:57.180 --> 06:41:59.680
Yeah, it would have ended a long time ago.

06:42:00.400 --> 06:42:01.520
Cookie Girl story.

06:42:01.520 --> 06:42:05.840
Actually, yeah, we talked about that when we went through the recap of the first couple that you haven't heard yet.

06:42:06.360 --> 06:42:13.800
So, man, when you listen back to the five-plus-hour show, it looks like, wow, five hours that just hit me.

06:42:14.080 --> 06:42:15.820
You're going to hear a lot of good stuff, too, Abdul.

06:42:15.920 --> 06:42:18.820
So you'll probably, it'll take you for a little walk down memory lane as well.

06:42:19.400 --> 06:42:20.040
Yeah, I can't wait.

06:42:20.420 --> 06:42:24.900
Well, listen, let's, I think we're probably time to wrap up the show.

06:42:26.400 --> 06:42:27.980
So, I don't know.

06:42:28.100 --> 06:42:28.980
Do we want to summarize?

06:42:28.980 --> 06:42:33.380
Do we want to beat a dead horse here and talk about, you know, the hacking community?

06:42:33.500 --> 06:42:40.200
Should we close out and just, I mean, we both agree, you know, about how great the hacking community is and how there's so many good people in there.

06:42:40.920 --> 06:42:43.040
You know, what more can we say, really?

06:42:43.200 --> 06:42:43.480
I mean.

06:42:44.080 --> 06:42:44.440
Nothing.

06:42:44.440 --> 06:42:47.380
And I don't think we should, I think we should, you know, we should go out clean.

06:42:47.580 --> 06:42:48.360
Yeah, exactly.

06:42:48.520 --> 06:42:53.720
You know, and I've avoided bringing up certain names and getting into any drama and controversy because, you know what?

06:42:53.720 --> 06:43:02.480
The majority of people that I've met in this scene and the majority of people that I've dealt with are just really good people, very knowledgeable people.

06:43:02.720 --> 06:43:05.440
And that's what makes the scene great.

06:43:05.680 --> 06:43:08.380
And one of the reasons I've loved doing this radio show for four years.

06:43:08.460 --> 06:43:09.020
So thank them.

06:43:09.260 --> 06:43:09.780
Thank them.

06:43:09.920 --> 06:43:10.100
Thank.

06:43:10.320 --> 06:43:11.240
Thank everybody.

06:43:11.440 --> 06:43:12.040
I thank everybody.

06:43:12.180 --> 06:43:17.880
Anybody that, see, the thing is, this is a, this is maybe outside of this, go, this is one of my life philosophies here.

06:43:17.880 --> 06:43:21.480
You know, you learn something from everybody in the world.

06:43:22.280 --> 06:43:24.220
Everybody will teach you something.

06:43:24.520 --> 06:43:26.320
You can never, ever think otherwise.

06:43:26.500 --> 06:43:27.640
You're always going to learn.

06:43:28.060 --> 06:43:40.740
There's experiences out there that are always beneficial to you, even the ones that may feel and seem negative or may hurt you in the short run or may, you know, affect you in a way that you didn't want or didn't expect.

06:43:40.740 --> 06:43:47.940
But in the long run, you know, I don't know who said the famous quote, but anything that doesn't kill you will make you stronger.

06:43:48.880 --> 06:43:52.300
And, you know, I get stronger and stronger every day.

06:43:52.500 --> 06:43:55.620
And hopefully I can continue to grow, continue to learn.

06:43:55.760 --> 06:44:03.060
And I know with friends like you, Duel, I think we can continue to grow as hackers and as human beings.

06:44:03.140 --> 06:44:04.420
And thank you for being on the show.

06:44:04.940 --> 06:44:06.220
I appreciate your time.

06:44:07.100 --> 06:44:07.860
Oh, yeah.

06:44:07.920 --> 06:44:08.320
Thank you.

06:44:08.740 --> 06:44:09.920
And your friendship, Tear.

06:44:09.920 --> 06:44:11.760
Yeah, that's all I want to say, too.

06:44:11.800 --> 06:44:16.600
I just want to thank, I want to thank the community for, you know, letting me talk on them straight up.

06:44:16.680 --> 06:44:17.020
That's it.

06:44:17.540 --> 06:44:20.740
And Duel, unfortunately, had to go, but...

06:44:20.740 --> 06:44:28.600
There was one other person we wanted to talk about on the show and kind of fill in some blanks for that we alluded to earlier, and that person is Decoder.

06:44:29.240 --> 06:44:38.080
Now, we went ahead and brought Not Theory back on the show to talk about this because both Not Theory and I are good friends with Decoder, as was Duel.

06:44:38.080 --> 06:44:44.480
But we're going to talk about, at least as much as we can, about Decoder's situation.

06:44:44.480 --> 06:44:51.260
Now, basically what happened was, in April of 2005, I believe it was, or was it 2004?

06:44:52.200 --> 06:44:55.440
No, I guess it's 2005 we're going to go with.

06:44:57.160 --> 06:45:08.400
Decoder, well, first of all, Decoder was co-hosted Binary Revolution Radio a few times and was host of Default Radio and had been around the scene for a good little while.

06:45:08.400 --> 06:45:12.900
And Decoder was a phone freak, spent a lot of time on conferences and whatnot.

06:45:13.220 --> 06:45:28.660
Well, Decoder was a true, fit the true definition of a hacker insofar as he believed in sharing information and writing a lot of text files, getting information out there, sharing numbers, stuff like that.

06:45:28.660 --> 06:45:37.280
But apparently, some of the information that he shared, other people didn't think that was information that needed to be shared.

06:45:37.480 --> 06:45:45.980
So, he drew some interest because he released some information about something called a DATU unit or a DATU system.

06:45:46.460 --> 06:45:50.260
That's D-A-T-U, which stands for Direct Access Test Unit.

06:45:51.020 --> 06:45:57.300
Now, Not Theory, can you give us a brief description of what the DATUs are, what they can do?

06:45:57.300 --> 06:46:02.280
Yeah, the DATU is a piece of telco equipment made by a company called Harris.

06:46:02.400 --> 06:46:03.220
I think it's by Harris.

06:46:03.940 --> 06:46:06.820
They make all kinds of, you know, linemen's handsets and crap like that.

06:46:07.160 --> 06:46:14.200
In any case, the DATU has a couple of functions, one of which is to help a lineman identify, you know, pairs of phone lines.

06:46:14.980 --> 06:46:19.520
So, you can call up the DATU and you can give it a phone number and you can say, put a tone on this line.

06:46:19.640 --> 06:46:23.300
So, if you're in an apartment building, you can just very quickly trace down and find what this line is.

06:46:23.300 --> 06:46:28.180
The other thing it can do, one of the other things it can do, is it can also disconnect that line.

06:46:28.260 --> 06:46:31.660
So, if you're working on it, you can just call the DATU again, give it the phone number,

06:46:31.720 --> 06:46:36.320
and it'll disconnect it for five minutes or so, so that you can do your work and not be bothered.

06:46:36.780 --> 06:46:41.180
And it's a feature that doesn't work anymore because of the type of switching system it was designed for.

06:46:41.320 --> 06:46:43.620
So, that's not really a useful feature anymore.

06:46:43.780 --> 06:46:45.760
It's still on the menu, but it doesn't actually do anything.

06:46:45.760 --> 06:46:49.460
And then the other thing that it can do is it's got an audio monitor feature.

06:46:50.020 --> 06:46:57.760
So, if you're a lineman and you want to, you know, find a spare pair, you want to see if the person whose phone line you're working on is on the phone,

06:46:58.280 --> 06:47:04.840
instead of just listening to their phone call and plugging directly into it, you can just dial up to the audio monitor function.

06:47:04.980 --> 06:47:08.240
And you can hear whether somebody's on the phone, but it's got kind of this like Donald Duck sound,

06:47:08.320 --> 06:47:09.540
so you can't make out what they're saying.

06:47:09.540 --> 06:47:14.300
So, it kind of takes the privacy concerns out of linemen's, you know, checking out your line while you're home.

06:47:14.300 --> 06:47:16.960
So, those are the main functions that it has.

06:47:17.480 --> 06:47:24.580
So, it's basically a utility system that the telcos use to do testing on the lines and whatnot.

06:47:25.900 --> 06:47:28.500
Yeah, it's all for maintenance purposes, you know.

06:47:29.860 --> 06:47:32.660
And it's not really that exciting a piece of equipment.

06:47:32.820 --> 06:47:37.480
But, you know, it's kind of neat that they're all over the place.

06:47:37.640 --> 06:47:42.000
And it's interesting to learn what they do and how they can be used to maintain the phone system.

06:47:42.000 --> 06:47:44.400
Right, and these are just out there on phone numbers.

06:47:44.480 --> 06:47:47.180
You just dial in a phone number like anybody else would.

06:47:47.340 --> 06:47:53.820
So, sometimes people will stumble across these, people like phone freaks who like to scan out numbers, blocks of numbers.

06:47:54.840 --> 06:48:00.200
Well, Decoder wrote a text file with a bunch of these numbers on there and released them

06:48:00.200 --> 06:48:08.200
and pointed out the fact that these systems normally have a password to protect them,

06:48:08.500 --> 06:48:11.480
a PIN number, a basic password numeric, obviously.

06:48:11.480 --> 06:48:18.480
And there's a tendency that many of these would not be set from the factory defaults.

06:48:19.500 --> 06:48:23.140
Well, some people didn't like that information being out there.

06:48:23.320 --> 06:48:28.840
Apparently, they were perfectly fine with leaving everything on default, but they didn't like people finding out about it.

06:48:28.840 --> 06:48:38.700
So, some investigations ensued and some people started looking into some things and all this kind of swirling around Decoder.

06:48:39.560 --> 06:48:45.760
And, again, don't want to go into too much detail because it's still some ongoing stuff that we don't want to go into.

06:48:45.760 --> 06:48:52.240
But, long story short, he was accused of a few things, accused of releasing this information.

06:48:53.140 --> 06:49:01.940
And I guess the biggest thing that made it serious and that made it dangerous for Decoder from a legal standpoint

06:49:01.940 --> 06:49:08.940
and from a criminal standpoint is that the allegation was that these DATU systems,

06:49:08.940 --> 06:49:18.220
because of what they do and what this utility allows, that these things could be used to,

06:49:18.380 --> 06:49:23.880
as Nott Theory said earlier, can be used to disable lines temporarily as part of normal utilities

06:49:23.880 --> 06:49:28.700
and normal things that a telco engineer or someone out working on the system might need.

06:49:29.380 --> 06:49:37.200
It was alleged that this function or this functionality of this feature could be used against the 911 system,

06:49:37.200 --> 06:49:40.520
the actual infrastructure, 911 system.

06:49:41.340 --> 06:49:44.980
So, that's what made it a big deal and that's what made it dangerous.

06:49:45.120 --> 06:49:46.740
That's something we've never talked about before.

06:49:46.840 --> 06:49:49.600
But that was really the big issue of the whole thing.

06:49:50.360 --> 06:49:58.120
And it was alleged that anyone who had access to these systems could attack 911 infrastructure.

06:49:59.000 --> 06:50:03.080
Right. Now, let's get a couple of facts straight here.

06:50:03.260 --> 06:50:06.380
Not that you've got anything wrong. Everything says it's actually correct.

06:50:06.380 --> 06:50:10.840
But just a few things that are missing that were kind of omitted from the original discussion.

06:50:11.560 --> 06:50:14.720
Decoder's research into this, and I'll call it research because that's really what it was,

06:50:16.660 --> 06:50:17.980
is really follow-up research.

06:50:18.100 --> 06:50:23.580
There's actually already a 2600 article that lists almost all of these DATU numbers

06:50:23.580 --> 06:50:25.660
and the fact that they're on default passwords.

06:50:26.520 --> 06:50:32.520
The other thing to keep in mind is that when you get the DATU manual from Harris,

06:50:32.520 --> 06:50:36.660
it says very explicitly in one of the very, very, very early chapters,

06:50:37.160 --> 06:50:41.200
that as soon as you get this piece of equipment, you should take off the default password.

06:50:41.600 --> 06:50:46.520
Like one of the first installation steps, obviously missed on hundreds of pieces of equipment,

06:50:46.600 --> 06:50:49.200
if not thousands of pieces of equipment, by the phone company.

06:50:49.200 --> 06:50:53.660
So two very important things to keep in mind there.

06:50:53.660 --> 06:50:57.220
So this system has been open for quite some time.

06:50:57.540 --> 06:51:02.100
Another interesting piece of information to know is that the feature that disables phone lines

06:51:02.100 --> 06:51:11.500
is documented in the test equipment's manual as only working on either step-by-step switches

06:51:11.500 --> 06:51:14.960
or crossbar switches, which are really, really old pieces of switching equipment

06:51:14.960 --> 06:51:17.700
that don't really exist in the U.S. anymore.

06:51:19.420 --> 06:51:25.580
So the ability to disable something like 911, they always accuse that, oh, yeah,

06:51:25.680 --> 06:51:27.300
you could shut off 911.

06:51:27.660 --> 06:51:32.120
Well, further casting down on that is the fact that when you call a DATU,

06:51:32.560 --> 06:51:34.400
there's three ways you can enter phone numbers.

06:51:34.500 --> 06:51:37.740
You can enter a four-digit phone number, you can enter a seven-digit number,

06:51:37.820 --> 06:51:39.300
or you can enter a 10-digit number.

06:51:39.740 --> 06:51:41.540
911 is none of those things.

06:51:42.240 --> 06:51:44.700
Granted, there is a backdoor number that will get you to 911,

06:51:45.300 --> 06:51:48.000
but it's not what we call plain-on telephone service.

06:51:48.100 --> 06:51:50.540
It's not a copper line, and it's not on step-by-step.

06:51:50.900 --> 06:51:55.080
If it was on step-by-step and it was just the copper line, you could disable it.

06:51:55.080 --> 06:52:01.020
But 911 always has T1 trunks, digital lines, which cannot be accessed by DATUs,

06:52:01.400 --> 06:52:06.020
and copper lines as backups, which can be accessed by DATUs but cannot be disabled

06:52:06.020 --> 06:52:07.120
on modern phone equipment.

06:52:07.120 --> 06:52:14.720
So even if you were on a step-by-step switch, and even if you knew the backdoor number to 911,

06:52:14.980 --> 06:52:19.420
you could only disable one of the many, many, many lines that they had going in there,

06:52:19.520 --> 06:52:21.380
which would not disable 911.

06:52:21.380 --> 06:52:31.040
So the idea that somebody could get this into their head and they could disable 911 using a DATU is just completely ridiculous.

06:52:31.380 --> 06:52:32.780
We did a lot of research into this.

06:52:32.880 --> 06:52:35.560
We looked through the Harris test manuals for so long,

06:52:35.560 --> 06:52:40.980
and everything we could find points to the fact that there's no possible way you could do this

06:52:40.980 --> 06:52:47.040
unless 911 only has one copper telephone line and is on a step-by-step system.

06:52:47.240 --> 06:52:50.240
Now, 911 doesn't exist on step-by-step anyway,

06:52:50.500 --> 06:52:53.020
but the fact of the matter is if you were on one of those old switches,

06:52:53.160 --> 06:52:55.440
you could disable the police department's phone,

06:52:55.440 --> 06:53:00.380
but, again, only if they only had one phone line and only if it was all analog,

06:53:01.000 --> 06:53:03.800
which doesn't exist anywhere in the U.S. today.

06:53:04.000 --> 06:53:09.860
So I hope that kind of clears up at least the research that I've done into this whole situation

06:53:09.860 --> 06:53:13.840
and how ridiculous it is people that don't know anything about the phone system

06:53:13.840 --> 06:53:18.800
to just accuse and say that, oh, yeah, you could do this without any proof,

06:53:18.800 --> 06:53:23.100
and that causes all of the trouble that's been caused for Decoder.

06:53:23.100 --> 06:53:27.840
And to reiterate, there's two important things that I want to emphasize to jump out of that.

06:53:27.920 --> 06:53:35.080
One, technically what they say the danger is technically is not possible.

06:53:35.180 --> 06:53:36.460
It does not work that way.

06:53:36.880 --> 06:53:38.620
So it's simply false.

06:53:39.240 --> 06:53:40.940
It's a false pretense to begin with.

06:53:40.940 --> 06:53:51.840
Secondly, it's basically punishing or attempting to punish an action that didn't happen.

06:53:52.240 --> 06:53:54.260
You could do this.

06:53:54.820 --> 06:53:56.560
You have the ability to do that.

06:53:56.900 --> 06:54:01.460
Note, and let me restate, it was not done.

06:54:01.780 --> 06:54:03.600
This did not happen.

06:54:03.720 --> 06:54:06.180
Nobody did what they're alleging.

06:54:06.180 --> 06:54:10.400
Their allegations are that it could be done with that information,

06:54:10.400 --> 06:54:15.140
and not that anyone, Decoder or anyone, did that,

06:54:15.400 --> 06:54:18.760
only that it could be done, the information that he had.

06:54:19.900 --> 06:54:24.060
So that's two things that are very scary to hear

06:54:24.060 --> 06:54:33.660
because the outcome of this was that Decoder was, if I had charges, filed against him.

06:54:34.580 --> 06:54:37.240
Again, we don't want to go into too much detail.

06:54:37.240 --> 06:54:41.980
We're trying to give everybody as much knowledge because I know it's been a mystery for several years now.

06:54:42.920 --> 06:54:48.440
Basically, the way it all shook out between all the court cases and the lawyers

06:54:48.440 --> 06:54:51.540
and the going and showing up and dealing with that whole process,

06:54:52.180 --> 06:54:59.760
it all worked out where Decoder did spend one year and a day in federal prison,

06:54:59.760 --> 06:55:01.580
served his sentence.

06:55:01.700 --> 06:55:04.340
It has been a couple years now, so he served his sentence,

06:55:05.000 --> 06:55:07.220
and he is now out.

06:55:07.920 --> 06:55:11.760
I speak to him on a regular basis, both Not Theory and I, still good friends with him,

06:55:12.280 --> 06:55:14.040
and have been through the whole time.

06:55:14.200 --> 06:55:17.340
We communicated with him when he was in prison.

06:55:17.340 --> 06:55:22.420
I sent him copies of BinRev magazine and articles and lots of other stuff,

06:55:22.620 --> 06:55:24.560
and he sent stuff back to me.

06:55:25.060 --> 06:55:26.660
Not Theory dropped off the line there.

06:55:26.680 --> 06:55:28.140
I'm sure his cell phone died.

06:55:29.300 --> 06:55:32.140
But, again, the long and short of it is,

06:55:32.180 --> 06:55:36.720
is we wanted to let everybody know that Decoder is doing just fine,

06:55:36.720 --> 06:55:38.900
and we do talk to him on occasion,

06:55:38.900 --> 06:55:45.060
and he's trying to live life, basically, after going through that scenario.

06:55:45.240 --> 06:55:49.140
So that is, if you can possibly imagine being accused of something

06:55:49.140 --> 06:55:52.840
and being punished for something that you could have done

06:55:52.840 --> 06:55:58.100
that might have happened, but actually, technically was impossible.

06:55:58.460 --> 06:56:01.100
So if you can imagine yourself being in a scenario like that,

06:56:01.520 --> 06:56:03.380
that is what Decoder went through.

06:56:03.380 --> 06:56:10.260
So, again, he is out now, and there is still some ongoing stuff,

06:56:10.380 --> 06:56:13.620
as you can imagine, going through that,

06:56:14.140 --> 06:56:17.400
and those accusations don't go away right away,

06:56:17.500 --> 06:56:22.560
so people are still watching and involved in your life on a daily basis.

06:56:22.900 --> 06:56:26.400
So he's trying to live life, work.

06:56:27.000 --> 06:56:30.400
I think his exact quote he told me earlier when we talked about this,

06:56:30.400 --> 06:56:34.960
he said that he's still smoking, like a chimney,

06:56:35.180 --> 06:56:39.600
and actually I'm going to give him a call here on my cell,

06:56:40.600 --> 06:56:44.080
and let's see if we can get him on the phone briefly.

06:56:44.080 --> 06:56:51.280
I know that he's not exactly, and I hope the microphone's going to pick this up,

06:56:51.280 --> 06:56:55.840
but I know that he's not exactly accessible these days,

06:56:56.000 --> 06:56:59.300
but Decoder, welcome to Binary Revolution Radio.

06:56:59.520 --> 06:57:01.680
This is episode number 200, the final episode,

06:57:02.340 --> 06:57:08.260
and I was hoping you could maybe give a couple of words about the,

06:57:09.160 --> 06:57:10.900
since this is the final episode of the show.

06:57:10.900 --> 06:57:14.040
What episode number?

06:57:14.360 --> 06:57:15.580
This is episode 200.

06:57:16.460 --> 06:57:22.320
Maybe I'll get around for listening to this when I catch up with the other 139 episodes that I haven't listened to.

06:57:22.900 --> 06:57:24.180
Wait a minute, what are you saying here?

06:57:25.540 --> 06:57:26.880
I don't know. What the hell are you?

06:57:26.940 --> 06:57:29.220
Are you really fucking putting me on your fucking stupid show?

06:57:30.220 --> 06:57:31.700
Um, should I not?

06:57:32.760 --> 06:57:33.840
I don't know. Whatever.

06:57:34.520 --> 06:57:36.720
What the hell did you want, man? I'm fucking busy.

06:57:36.720 --> 06:57:42.640
Um, I just thought maybe you'd want to be on this last episode of the show.

06:57:43.600 --> 06:57:43.940
Wow.

06:57:44.260 --> 06:57:44.680
Was that wrong?

06:57:45.900 --> 06:57:47.260
Hello? Hello?

06:57:47.400 --> 06:57:48.180
Yeah, who's on it with you?

06:57:48.400 --> 06:57:50.060
Yeah, anyway, who's on it with you?

06:57:50.800 --> 06:57:52.480
Um, Not Theory is on?

06:57:53.460 --> 06:57:53.780
Yeah.

06:57:54.820 --> 06:57:55.420
That's cool.

06:57:55.960 --> 06:57:56.240
Yeah.

06:57:57.240 --> 06:58:00.000
Anyway, do you want me to tell me what you want? What do you want?

06:58:00.120 --> 06:58:02.140
Is that it? Is that all you're going to, is that it?

06:58:03.100 --> 06:58:03.500
What?

06:58:03.500 --> 06:58:06.120
I mean, I'm having you on this final episode of the show.

06:58:06.900 --> 06:58:08.300
What do you want me to do for you? Fuck!

06:58:08.760 --> 06:58:11.320
I don't know. Don't you want to tell the people anything?

06:58:12.340 --> 06:58:13.000
Want a joke?

06:58:14.320 --> 06:58:15.140
Please, no.

06:58:15.960 --> 06:58:18.620
What are you going to do? Fucking perform for you?

06:58:19.100 --> 06:58:19.920
Like a fucking monkey?

06:58:20.160 --> 06:58:23.120
I'd like to hear a knock-knock joke, actually. I really like those.

06:58:24.100 --> 06:58:25.900
Yeah? A knock-knock joke?

06:58:26.540 --> 06:58:27.640
Yeah, a knock-knock joke.

06:58:28.340 --> 06:58:29.060
Alright, knock-knock.

06:58:30.280 --> 06:58:30.900
Who's there?

06:58:31.700 --> 06:58:33.380
Fucking me. I'm outside your house.

06:58:33.540 --> 06:58:34.820
Fucking, which building is it?

06:58:37.220 --> 06:58:38.840
Alright, I'll be down for a minute.

06:58:39.660 --> 06:58:41.640
I don't even know what building it is. I'm just going to pull over.

06:58:42.460 --> 06:58:43.000
It's a dock.

06:58:44.020 --> 06:58:45.920
Oh, I can't drop my docks on the air.

06:58:46.180 --> 06:58:50.220
Alright, well then, I guess we'll, I guess we'll have to end it there then, but, um...

06:58:50.220 --> 06:58:53.440
It really has a fact. This is really 200 episodes of your fucking super show.

06:58:53.520 --> 06:58:54.700
You're still doing it, by the way?

06:58:55.040 --> 06:58:56.880
200 episodes. This is the last...

06:58:56.880 --> 06:58:59.760
I didn't even know you were still doing it. I thought, like, fucking...

06:58:59.760 --> 06:59:01.460
That it was dead or something.

06:59:01.460 --> 06:59:03.380
Yeah, well...

06:59:03.380 --> 06:59:05.460
It is as of today. I think you just killed it.

06:59:06.160 --> 06:59:07.880
Oh, good. I'm glad.

06:59:08.420 --> 06:59:11.340
Alright, well, I'm going to go ahead and put it in the ground, but, uh...

06:59:11.340 --> 06:59:13.960
Thanks for coming on here for a few seconds and being on the show.

06:59:14.760 --> 06:59:15.240
Yeah, definitely.

06:59:15.480 --> 06:59:16.280
And, uh... I'm sure everybody likes you.

06:59:16.280 --> 06:59:18.720
I don't know. It's the same fucking act.

06:59:19.180 --> 06:59:19.620
Nope.

06:59:19.620 --> 06:59:20.640
Not this time.

06:59:20.740 --> 06:59:22.720
Nope, not this time. You're right about that.

06:59:22.720 --> 06:59:25.420
Alright, guys. I'll talk to both of you later.

06:59:26.140 --> 06:59:28.560
I'll put it out and say, Decoder killed the radio star.

06:59:29.680 --> 06:59:30.340
Thanks.

06:59:30.340 --> 06:59:36.760
So, that was good. We, uh, really wanted to, uh, bring you up to speed on a lot of the people

06:59:36.760 --> 06:59:42.000
that you've heard over the, the past several years of doing the radio show, particularly.

06:59:42.360 --> 06:59:45.880
We know, uh, people haven't heard from Decoder in a while, so hopefully you heard that.

06:59:45.940 --> 06:59:51.040
Of course, that was recorded, uh, many years ago, not recently, no matter how that may have sounded.

06:59:51.480 --> 06:59:53.340
So, throw that disclaimer in there.

06:59:53.980 --> 06:59:58.860
And, um, you know, I guess we'll use that to kind of segue into our closing shout-outs

06:59:58.860 --> 07:00:01.840
that we have always done on the show, and today is no exception.

07:00:02.380 --> 07:00:07.860
So, the shouts obviously go to everyone we've just mentioned and singled out as recent co-hosts of the show,

07:00:07.940 --> 07:00:12.060
but there's also a lot of others as well that we deserve to, that deserve to get some shout-outs tonight.

07:00:12.060 --> 07:00:14.360
If I missed anybody, it was certainly not intentional.

07:00:14.680 --> 07:00:16.600
I threw together the list quickly.

07:00:17.320 --> 07:00:20.360
Shouts to Zerl and Old Hat Nat, of course, to Rant Radio.

07:00:21.040 --> 07:00:25.400
Um, to pound BINREV, everybody and pound BINREV on irc.binrev.net,

07:00:25.480 --> 07:00:32.240
or even back in the old days on Freenode, on Esper, on all the channels that we've kind of grown and outgrown over the years.

07:00:32.680 --> 07:00:38.580
Tom, to the Agents of the Revolution, um, all DDP members, past, present, and future, of course.

07:00:38.880 --> 07:00:41.600
You know, yeah, I, I apologize if I've missed anybody.

07:00:41.600 --> 07:00:42.680
It's certainly not a slight.

07:00:42.840 --> 07:00:47.500
There's so many great people in this community, and I, I just couldn't remember everybody.

07:00:47.500 --> 07:00:52.500
Um, but, like I said earlier to Duel, I, I really do learn something from everybody.

07:00:52.500 --> 07:00:55.620
Uh, everybody has something that you can learn from them.

07:00:55.620 --> 07:00:57.420
It doesn't matter what their age is.

07:00:57.420 --> 07:00:58.700
It doesn't matter what their skill level is.

07:00:58.700 --> 07:01:02.700
People have different thought processes, and a lot of people know things that you don't know.

07:01:02.700 --> 07:01:07.560
And, you know, the sooner people kind of swallow their pride a little bit, put away their ego,

07:01:07.560 --> 07:01:14.760
and, and realize that there's something to learn from everybody, then, you know, you'll grow as a person that way.

07:01:14.780 --> 07:01:19.380
And I've grown a lot, thanks to all the people that we've listed, and some that I've probably overlooked.

07:01:19.380 --> 07:01:26.580
Also, as we wrap up the show, um, you know, I appreciate everybody that's been listening all this time.

07:01:26.580 --> 07:01:31.600
What we've put together is, uh, we set up a phone number to record voicemail, to record messages.

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So, if you do want to call in and share your thoughts, your experiences on Binary Revolution Radio over the years, whatever you, you know,

07:01:38.300 --> 07:01:40.320
maybe it motivated you to work on a project.

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Maybe it motivated you that you heard a topic we talked about, or maybe something we said you hated so much

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that it made you, um, go out and start your own show, or start something else, or start an anti-stank dog.

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Whatever, any thoughts or anything that, you know, any memories of Binary Revolution Radio,

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anything that you want to share or want to put out there, uh, the phone number is 407.

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It's an Orlando number here in Florida, 407-347-6087.

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That number, again, is 407-347-6087.

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So, call in, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

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Again, this is our last show, so we won't be able to, um, have these on, like we didn't do any email this episode.

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There won't be another episode to do this.

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Maybe we'll collect them all and do a special episode in the future, or, uh, some other show,

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or gather them and put them, make them available somewhere.

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But, please, I would love to hear your thoughts on, on, you know, the four years that we put out there.

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And, um, you know, did we do any good?

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Was it worthwhile?

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Was it something that, um, you know, you enjoyed?

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Then, um, by all means, leave your thoughts and, and whatever you want to say on that number.

07:02:51.180 --> 07:02:55.460
Um, hosting for Binary Revolution Radio comes from caro.net.

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That's C-A-R-O dot N-E-T.

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They've been very good to us, uh, very recently.

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Uh, lots of, um, bandwidth and, uh, server growing really, really fast, really quickly.

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And they've been very helpful in helping us maintain our uptime and keep working, keep the site working, and things like that.

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So, we're appreciative to them.

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Um, site of the week, um, I guess there's really no point doing a site of the week.

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Uh, binrev.com.

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B-I-N-R-E-V dot com is our site of the week.

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Because even though Binary Revolution Radio may be ending, the revolution will continue, and the revolution will be digitized.

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So, binrev.com, site of the week, where you're going to find, you know, all of the past episodes of Binary Revolution Radio.

07:03:39.300 --> 07:03:45.380
It's kind of a central hub or portal to all of the projects we've worked on from, you know, most people are very familiar with the forums.

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And if you're not, go check those out for sure.

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That's where most of the action is.

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Um, all the other projects, most of them are linking from there.

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So, um, definitely check that out.

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It's not going anywhere.

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Hopefully, I'm not going anywhere.

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I may not be as vocal, obviously, without the radio show.

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But I plan on being around and working on projects.

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So, it's not like I'm dying or anything like that.

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Hopefully, I won't be completely disappearing off the face of the earth.

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Um, let's see.

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Well, normally, we do the email address.

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Um, not really a point in doing that.

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Again, uh, we do appreciate feedback.

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Uh, our old email was radio at binrev.com.

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But, um, again, probably won't be using that.

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That'll be taken off the grid sometime in the future.

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But, you can feel free to email me personally.

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Email me directly.

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Stankdog at stankdog.com.

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That's S-T-A-N-K-D-A-W-G.

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Not D-O-G.

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D-A-W-G at stankdog.com.

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So, you can always contact me there.

07:04:39.080 --> 07:04:41.040
Um, closing music for tonight.

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You know, we can't end the show any different than we started the show.

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You know, we've got to use zero dedication to the Hackers and Crackers.

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I'm going to probably throw in the Matrix remix of this.

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Which I think is a perfect way to close out the show, the season, the whole kit and caboodle ending with episode 200.

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So, um, that's just about going to do it.

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You know, I, I, the only thing I can really wrap up by saying is, you know, again, if I overlook anybody, I assure you it's unintentional.

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So, this show would not have been anything without the participation and the support of everybody out there listening.

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The show was never about me or never about my ego.

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It was never about the numbers or the downloads.

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It was never about anything other than my love of hacking and desire to share that with everyone else and let others share their world with me.

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That's what this show's always been about.

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Um, the show was input and feedback from our listeners, emails, co-hosts, rants, flames, a few dick and fart jokes mixed in there.

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It was fun, it was technical, a little bit bizarre, strange and weird at times.

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But, most importantly, the show was real.

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It's always been real from episode one to now.

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You know, sometimes it may be corny.

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Sometimes people may not believe what I say or think that I'm, um, trying to spin something or trying to make something out to be, you know.

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So, I've always spoken my mind.

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I've always spoken my heart.

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Um, I've always enjoyed it.

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And I've learned so much doing this show from everybody.

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And hopefully, everyone else was able to grow along with me over these past four years.

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So, I appreciate all of the listeners and all the support.

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But, that's going to bring us to the end of the show.

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Episode 200 in the books, ladies and gentlemen.

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Bringing episode 200 to an end.

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Bringing season four to an end.

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And bringing Binary Revolution Radio to its end.

07:06:39.700 --> 07:06:48.260
And, also, as we close out the show, one other thing that's going to be a little different is we can't really honestly tell you that we'll be back next week.

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Same hack time, same hack channel.

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But, I do want to reemphasize and show my appreciation and my thanks to everyone who put up and listened to me for four years.

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My ranting, my complaining, my whining, bitching, moaning, taking in, you know, all that is the world of hacking, you know.

07:07:08.960 --> 07:07:09.620
You love it.

07:07:09.760 --> 07:07:10.760
There's so much to it.

07:07:10.840 --> 07:07:12.940
There's so much that I enjoy about it.

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And, that's never going to change.

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And, hopefully, somehow, sometime throughout these past four years, other people have felt the same way while listening to the radio show that I have.

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So, for that, I thank everybody.

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And, to close out the show this week, like I said, we're going to have to do it very simply and say thank you to everyone for listening.

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I truly appreciate your time.

07:07:35.440 --> 07:07:35.720
Goodbye.

07:07:35.720 --> 07:07:35.860
Goodbye.

07:07:53.840 --> 07:07:54.840
Bye.

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Bye.

07:07:55.840 --> 07:07:56.840
Bye.

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Bye.

07:08:53.840 --> 07:08:54.840
Bye.

07:08:54.840 --> 07:08:56.840
Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

07:11:23.800 --> 07:11:23.820
Bye.

07:11:23.820 --> 07:11:26.040
Tell them a world without you.

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A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries.

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A world where anything is possible.

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Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

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Oh, man, that was hard.

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I didn't think that would be that hard.

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Four years.

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Who would have ever thought?

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Four years.