The _Other_ Bob
                            From
        The Fortean Research Center BBS (402) 488-2587
                  (Speaking only for myself)

Subject: The Greenbaum Speech (1/4) ^Repost^
From: an170476@anon.penet.fi


                      THE  GREENBAUM  SPEECH

Herein is the lecture by D.C.Hammond, originally entitled "Hypnosis in
MPD: Ritual Abuse," but now usually known as the "Greenbaum Speech,"
delivered at the Fourth Annual Eastern Regional Conference on Abuse
and Multiple Personality, Thursday June 25, 1992, at the Radisson
Plaza Hotel, Mark Center, Alexandria, Virginia. Sponsored by the
Center for Abuse Recovery & Empowerment, The Psychiatric Institute of
Washington, D.C.  Both a tape and a transcript were at one time
available from Audio Transcripts of Alexandria, Virginia
(800-338-2111).  Tapes and transcripts of other sessions from the
conference are still being sold but -- understandably -- not this
one. The transcript below was made from a privately made tape of the
original lecture.

The single most remarklable thing about this speech is how little one
has heard of it in the two years since its original delivery. It is
recommended that one reads far enough at least until one finds why
it's called "the Greenbaum speech."

In the introduction the following background information is given for
                         D. Corydon Hammond:

 B.S. M.S. Ph.D (Counseling Psychology) from the University of Utah
 Diplomate in Clinical Hypnosis, the American Board of Psychological
   Hypnosis
 Diplomate in Sex Therapy, the American Board of Sexology
 Clinical Supervisor and Board Examiner, American Board of Sexology
 Diplomate in Marital and Sex Therapy, American Board of Family
   Psychology
 Licensed Psychologist, Licensed Marital Therapist, Licensed Family
   Therapist, State of Utah
 Research Associate Professor of Physical Medicine an Rehabilitation,
   Utah School of Medicine
 Director and Founder of the Sex and Marital Therapy Clinic,
   University of Utah.
 Adjunct Associate Professor of Educational Psychology, University of
   Utah Abstract
 Editor, The American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis
 Advising Editor and Founding Member, Editorial Board, The Ericsonian
   Monograph
 Referee, The Journal of Abnormal Psychology
 1989 Presidential Award of Merit, American Society of Clinical
   Hypnosis
 1990 Urban Sector Award, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis
 Current President, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis


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Subject: The Greenbaum Speech (2/4)
From: an170476@anon.penet.fi


          ``THE  GREENBAUM  SPEECH  of  D.C.HAMMOND''

  We've got a lot to cover today and let me give you a rough
approximate outline of the the things that I'd like us to get into.
First, let me ask how many of you have had at least one course or
workshop on hypnosis? Can I see the hands?  Wonderful. That makes our
job easier. Okay. I want to start off by talking a little about
trance-training and the use of hypnotic phenomena with an MPD
dissociative-disorder population, to talk some about unconscious
exploration, methods of doing that, the use of imagery and symbolic
imagery techniques for managing physical symptoms, input overload,
things like that. Before the day's out, I want to spend some time
talking about something I think has been completely neglected in the
field of dissociative disorder, and that's talking about methods of
profound calming for automatic hyper-arousal that's been conditioned
in these patients. We're going to spend a considerable length of time
talking about age-regression and abreaction in working through a
trauma.  I'll show you with a non-MPD patient -- some of that kind of
work -- and then extrapolate from what I find so similar and different
with MPD cases. Part of that, I would add, by the way, is that I've
been very sensitive through the years about taping MPD cases or
ritual-abuse cases, part of it being that some of that feels a little
like using patients and I think that this population has been used
enough. That's part of the reason, by choice, that I don't generally
videotape my work. I also want to talk a bunch about hypnotic relapse-
prevention strategies and post-integration therapy today. Finally, I
hope to find somewhere in our time-frame to spend on hour or so
talking specifically about ritual abuse and about mind-control
programming and brainwashing -- how it's done, how to get on the
inside with that -- which is a topic that in the past I haven't been
willing to speak about publicly, have done that in small groups and in
consultations, but recently decided that it was high time that
somebody started doing it. So we're going to talk about specifics
today. [Applause] In Chicago at the first international congress where
ritual abuse was talked about I can remember thinking, "How strange
and interesting."  I can recall many people listening to an example
given that somebody thought was so idiosyncratic and rare, and all the
people coming up after saying, "Gee, you're treating one, too? You're
in Seattle"...Well, I'm in Toronto...Well, I'm in Florida...Well, I'm
in Cincinnati."  I didn't know what to think at that point. It wasn't
too long after that I found my first ritual-abuse patient in somebody
I was already treating and we hadn't gotten that deep yet.  Things in
that case made me very curious about the use of mind-control
techniques and hypnosis and other brainwashing techniques. So I
started studying brainwashing and some of the literature in that area
and became acquainted with, in fact, one of the people who'd written
one of the better books in that area. Then I decided to do a survey,
and from the ISSMP&D [International Society for the Study of Mulptiple
Personality and Dissociation] folks I picked out about a dozen and a
half therapists that I though were seeing more of that than probably
anyone else around and I started surveying them. The interview
protocol, that I had. got the same reaction almost without exception.
Those therapists said, "You're asking questions I don't know the
answers to. You're asking more specific questions than I've ever asked
my patients." Many of those same therapists said, "Let me ask those
questions and I'll get back to you with the answer." Many of them not
only got back with answers, but said, "You've got to talk to this
patient or these two patients." I ended up doing hundred of dollars
worth of telephone interviewing. What I came out of that was a grasp
of a variety of brainwashing methods being used all over the country.
I started to hear some similarities.  Whereas I hadn't known, to begin
with, how widespread things were, I was now getting a feeling that
there were a lot of people reporting some similar things and that
there must be some degree of communication here. Then approximately
two and a half years ago I had some material drop in my lap. My source
was saying a lot of things that I knew were accurate about some of the
brainwashing, but it was telling me new material I had no idea about.
At this point I took and decided to check it out in three ritual-abuse
patients I was seeing at the time.  Two of the three had what they
were describing, in careful inquiry without leading or contaminating.
The fascinating thing was that as I did a telephone-consult with a
therapist that I'd been consulting for quite a number of months on an
MPD case in another state, I told her to inquire about certain things.
She said, "Well, what are those things?"  I said, "I'm not going to
tell you, because I don't want there to be any possibility of
contamination. Just come back to me and tell me what the patient
says." She called me back two hours later, said, "I just had a double
session with this patient and there was a part of him that said, 'Oh,
we're so excited. If you know about this stuff, you know how the Cult
Programmers get on the inside and our therapy is going to go so much
faster.'" Many other patients since have had a reaction of wanting to
pee their pants out of anxiety and fear rather than thinking it was
wonderful thing.  But the interesting thing was that she then asked,
"What are these things?" They were word perfect -- same answers my
source had given me. I've since repeated that in many parts of the
country. I've consulted in eleven states and one foreign country, in
some cases over the telephone, in some cases in person, in some cases
giving the therapist information ahead of time and saying, "Be very
careful how you phrase this. Phrase it in these ways so you don't
contaminate."  In other cases not even giving the therapist
information ahead of time so they couldn't. When you start to find the
same highly esoteric information in different states and different
countries, from Florida to California, you start to get an idea that
there's something going on that is very large, very well coordinated,
with a great deal of communication and systematicness to what's
happening. So I have gone from someone kind of neutral and not knowing
what to think about it all to someone who clearly believes ritual
abuse is real and that the people who say it isn't are either naive
like people who didn't want to believe the Holocaust or -- they're
dirty. [Applause]

  Now for a long time I would tell a select group of therapists that I
knew and trusted, information and say, "Spread it out. Don't spread my
name. Don't say where it came from. But here's some information. Share
it with other therapists if you find it's on target, and I'd
appreciate your feedback." People would question -- in talks -- and
say, you know, they were hungry for information.  Myself, as well as a
few others that I've shared it with, were hedging out of concern and
out of personal threats and out of death threats. I finally decided to
hell with them. If they're going to kill me, they're going to kill
me. It's time to share more information with therapists. Part of that
comes because we proceeded so cautiously and slowly, checking things
in many different locations and find the same thing. So I'm going to
give you the way in with ritual-abuse programming. I certainly can't
tell you everything that you want to know in forty-five or fifty
minutes, but I'm going to give you the essentials to get inside and
start working at a new level. I don't know what proportion, honestly,
of patients have this. I would guess that maybe somewhere around at
least fifty percent, maybe as high as three-quarters, I would guess
maybe two-thirds of your ritual-abuse patients may have this. What do
I think the distinguishing characteristic is? If they were raised from
birth in a mainstream cult or if they were an non-bloodline person,
meaning neither parent was in the Cult, but Cult people had a lot of
access to them in early childhood, they may also have it. I have seen
more than one ritual-abuse patient who clearly had all the kind of
ritual things you hear about. They seemed very genuine. They talked
about all the typical things that you hear in this population, but had
none of this programming with prolonged extensive checking. So I
believe in one case I was personally treating that she was a kind of
schizmatic break-off that had kind of gone off and done their own
thing and were no longer hooked into a mainstream group. [Pause]

  Here's where it appears to have come from. At the end of World War
II, before it even ended, Allen Dulles and people from our
Intelligence Community were already in Switzerland making contact to
get out Nazi scientists.  As World War II ends, they not only get out
rocket scientists, but they also get out some Nazi doctors who have
been doing mind-control research in the camps.

  They brought them to the United States. Along with them was a young
boy, a teenager, who had been raised in a Hasidic Jewish tradition and
a background of Cabalistic mysticism that probably appealed to people
in the Cult because at least by the turn of the century Aleister
Crowley had been introducing Cabalism into Satanic stuff, if not
earlier. I suspect it may have formed some bond between them. But he
saved his skin by collaborating and being an assistant to them in the
death-camp experiments. They brought him with them. They started doing
mind-control research for Military Intelligence in military hospitals
in the United States. The people that came, the Nazi doctors, were
Satanists.  Subsequently, the boy changed his name, Americanized it
some, obtained an M.D. degree, became a physician and continued this
work that appears to be at the center of Cult Programming today. His
name is known to patients throughout the country. [Pause] What they
basically do is they will get a child and they will start this, in
basic forms, it appears, by about two and a half after the child's
already been made dissociative. They'll make him dissociative not only
through abuse, like sexual abuse, but also things like putting a
mousetrap on their fingers and teaching the parents, "You do not go in
until the child stops crying. Only then do you go in and remove it."
They start in rudimentary forms at about two and a half and kick into
high gear, it appears, around six or six and a half, continue through
adolescence with periodic reinforcements in adulthood. Basically in
the programming the child will be put typically on a gurney. They will
have an IV in one hand or arm. They'll be strapped down, typically
naked. There'll be wires attached to their head to monitor
electroencephalograph patterns. They will see a pulsing light, most
often described as red, occasionally white or blue. They'll be given,
most commonly I believe, Demerol. Sometimes it'll be other drugs as
well depending on the kind of programming. They have it, I think, down
to a science where they've learned you give so much every twenty-five
minutes until the programming is done. They then will describe a pain
on one ear, their right ear generally, where it appears a needle has
been placed, and they will hear weird, disorienting sounds in that ear
while they see photic stimulation to drive the brain into a brainwave
pattern with a pulsing light at a certain frequency not unlike the
goggles that are now available through Sharper Image and some of those
kinds of stores. Then, after a suitable period when they're in a
certain brainwave state, they will begin programming, programming
oriented to self-destruction and debasement of the person. In a
patient at this point in time about eight years old who has gone
through a great deal early programming took place on a military
installation. That's not uncommon. I've treated and been involved with
cases who are part of this original mind-control project as well as
having their programming on military reservations in many cases. We
find a lot of connections with the CIA. This patient now was in a Cult
school, a private Cult school where several of these sessions occurred
a week. She would go into a room, get all hooked up. They would do all
of these sorts of things. When she was in the proper altered state,
now they were no longer having to monitor it with
electroencephalographs, she also had already had placed on her
electrodes, one in the vagina, for example, four on the head.
Sometimes they'll be on other parts of the body. They will then begin
and they would say to her, "You are angry with someone in the group."
She'd say, "No, I'm not" and they'd violently shock her. They would
say the same thing until she complied and didn't make any negative
response. Then they would continue. "And because you are angry with
someone in the group," or "When you are angry with someone in the
group, you will hurt yourself. Do you understand?" She said, "No" and
they shocked her.  They repeated again, "Do you understand?"  "Well,
yes, but I don't want to."  Shock her again untill they get
compliance. Then they keep adding to it. "And you will hurt yourself
by cutting yourself. Do you understand?" Maybe she'd say yes, but they
might say, "We don't believe you" and shock her anyway. "Go back and
go over it again." They would continue in this sort of fashion. She
said typically it seemed as though they'd go about thirty minutes,
take a break for a smoke or something, come back. They may review what
they'd done and stopped or they might review what they'd done and go
on to new material. She said the sessions might go half an hour, they
might go three hours. She estimated three times a week. Programming
under the influence of drugs in a certain brainwave state and with
these noises in one ear and them speaking in the other ear, usually
the left ear, associated with right hemisphere non-dominant brain
functioning, and with them talking, therefore, and requiring intense
concentration, intense focusing. Because often they'll have to
memorize and say certain things back, word-perfect, to avoid
punishment, shock, and other kinds of things that are occurring. This
is basically how a lot of programming goes on. Some of it'll also use
other typical brainwashing kinds of techniques. There will be very
standardized types of hypnotic things done at times. There'll be
sensory deprivation which we know increases suggestibility in anyone.
Total sensory deprivation, suggestibility has significantly increased,
from the research. It's not uncommon for them to use a great deal of
that, including formal sensory-deprivation chambers before they do
certain of these things.  

[Pause] Now let me give you, because we
don't have a lot of time, as much practical information as I can. The
way that I would inquire as to whether or not some of this might be
there would be with ideomotor finger-signals. After you've set them up
I would say, "I want the central inner core of you to take control of
the finger-signals." Don't ask the unconscious mind. The case where
you're inquiring about ritual abuse, that's for the central inner
core. The core is a Cult-created part. "And I want that central inner
core of you to take control of this hand of these finger-signals and
what it has for the yes-finger to float up. I want to ask the inner
core of you is there any part of you, any part of Mary," that's the
host's name, "who knows anything about Alpha, Beta, Delta, or Theta."
If you get a Yes, it should raise a red flag that you might have
someone with formal intensive brainwashing and programming in place. I
would then ask and say, "I want a part inside who knows something
about Alpha, Beta, Delta, and Theta to come up to a level where you
can speak to me and when you're here say, 'I'm here.'" I would not ask
if a part was willing to. No one's going to particularly want to talk
about this. I would just say, "I want some part who can tell me about
this to come out." Without leading them ask them what these things
are. I've had consults where I've come in. Sometimes I've gotten a Yes
to that, but as I've done exploration it appeared to be some kind of
compliance response or somebody wanting, in two or three cases, to
appear maybe that they were ritual abuse and maybe they were in some
way, but with careful inquiry and looking it was obvious that they did
not have what we were looking for. Let me tell you what these are.
Let's suppose that this whole front row here are multiples and that
she has an alter named Helen and she has one named Mary, she has one
named Gertrude, she has one named Elizabeth, and she has one named
Monica. Every one of those alters may have put on it a program,
perhaps designated alpha-zero-zero-nine a Cult person could say,
"Alpha-zero-zero-nine" or make some kind of hand gesture to indicate
this and get the same part out in any one of them even though they had
different names that they may be known by to you. Alphas appear to
represent general programming, the first kind of things put in. Betas
appear to be sexual programs. For example, how to perform oral sex in
a certain way, how to perform sex in rituals, having to do with
producing child pornography, directing child pornography,
prostitution. Deltas are killers trained in how to kill in ceremonies.
There'll also be some self-harm stuff mixed in with that,
assassination and killing. Thetas are called psychic killers. You
know, I had never in my life heard those two terms paired together.
I'd never heard the words "psychic killers" put together, but when you
have people in different states, including therapists inquiring and
asking, "What is Theta," and patients say to them, "Psychic killers,"
it tends to make one a believer that certain things are very
systematic and very widespread. This comes from their belief in
psychic sorts of abilities and powers, including their ability to
psychically communicate with "mother'" including their ability to
psychically cause somebody to develop a brain aneurysm and die. It
also is a more future-oriented kind of programming. Then there's
Omega. I usually don't include that word when I say my first question
about this or any part inside that knows about Alpha, Beta, Delta,
Theta because Omega will shake them even more. Omega has to do with
self-destruct programming. Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the
end. This can include self-mutilation as well as killing-themselves
programming. Gamma appears to be system-protection and deception
programming which will provide misinformation to you, try to misdirect
you, tell you half-truths, protect different things inside.  There can
also be other Greek letters. I'd recommend that you go and get your
entire Greek alphabet and if you have verified that some of this stuff
is present and they have given you some of the right answers about
what some of this material is, and I can't underline enough: DO NOT
LEAD THEM. Do not say, "Is this killers?" Get the answer from them,
please. When you've done this and it appears to be present, I would
take your entire Greek alphabet and, with ideomotor signals, go
through the alphabet and say, "Is there any programming inside
associated with epsilon, omicron," and go on through.  There may be
some sytematicness to some of the other letter, but I'm not aware of
it. I've found, for example, in one case that Zeta had to do with the
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Subject: The Greenbaum Speech (3/4) ^Repost^
From: an170476@anon.penet.fi


Now there are many different layers of this stuff is the problem. Let
me come over to the overhead and give some ideas about them.  What we
have up here are innumerable alters. I'll tell you one of the
fascinating things I've seen. I remember a little over a year ago
coming in to see some cases, some of the tough cases at a
dissociative-disorders unit of a couple of the finest of the MPD
therapists in this country, who are always part of all the
international meetings, have lectured internationally. We worked and I
look at some of their patients. They were amazed at certain things
because they had not been aware of this before. As we worked with some
of the patients and confirmed it, I remember one woman who'd been
inpatient for three years, still was inpatient. Another who had one
intensive year of inpatient work with all the finest MPD therapy you
can imagine -- abreactions, integrations, facilitating cooperation,
art therapy, on and on and on, journaling, intensively for one
inpatient year followed by an intensive year of outpatient therapy
two, three hours a week. In both patients we found out that all of
this great work had done nothing but deal with the alters up here and
had not touched the mind-control programming. In fact it was not only
intact, but we found that the one who was outpatient was having her
therapy monitored every session by her mother, out-of-state, over the
telephone, and that she still had intact suggestions that had been
given to her at a certain future time to kill her therapist. Now one of
the things that I would very carefully check is, I would suggest that
you ask the core, not just the unconscious mind, ask the core, "Is
there any part inside that continues to have contact with people
associated with the Cult? Is there any part inside who goes to Cult
rituals or meetings? Is there a recording device inside of Mary," if
that's the host's name, "a recording device inside so that someone can
find out the things that are said in sessions?" This doesn't mean
they're monitored. Many of them just simply have it. "Is there someone
who debriefs some part inside for what happens in our therapy
sessions?" I have the very uncomfortable feeling from some past
experience that when you look at this you will find the large
proportion of ritual-abuse victims in this country are having their
ongoing therapy monitored.  

I remember a woman who came in about
twenty-four years old, claimed her father was a Satanist. Her parents
divorced when she was six. After that it would only when her father
had visitation and he would take her to rituals sometimes up until age
fifteen. She said, "I haven't gone to anything since I was fifteen."
Her therapist believed this at face value. We sat in my office. We did
a two-hour inquiry using hypnosis. We found the programming present.
In addition to that we found that every therapy session was debriefed
and in fact they had told her to get sick and not come to the
appointment with me. Another one had been told that I was Cult and
that if she came I would know that she'd been told not to come and I
would punish her. If anything meaningful comes out in a patient who's
being monitored like that -- from what I've learned thus far, they're
tortured with electric shocks -- my belief is if they're in that
situation you can't do meaningful therapy other than being supportive
and caring and letting them know you care a lot and you'll be there to
support them. But I wouldn't try to work with any kind of deep
material or deprogramming with them because I think it can do nothing
but get them tortured and hurt unless they can get into a safe, secure
inpatient unit for an extended period of time to do some of the work
required. I have a feeling that when you make inquiries you're going
to find that probably greater than fifty percent of these patients, if
they're bloodline, meaning mother or dad or both involved, will be
monitored on some ongoing basis. [Pause] 

Now when you come below the
alters, you then have Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta, so and so forth, the
Greek-letter programming and they will then have backup programs.
There will typically be an erasure code for the backups.  There may be
one code that combines all the backups into one and then an erasure
code for them, simply one code that erases all the backups.  So I will
get the code for, let's say, Omega and for all the Omega backups at
the same time. After I've asked "What will happen if I give this," I
will give the code and then I will say, "What are you experiencing?"
They often describe computer whirring, things erasing, explosions
inside, all sorts of interesting things.  I've had some therapists
come back and say, "My Lord, I had never said anything about robots
she said something about robots vaporizing." I remember one therapist
who'd been with me in several hypnosis workshops and consulted with me
about a crisis MPD situation. I told her to inquire about Alpha, Beta,
Delta, Theta. She did. She got back to me saying, "Yeah, I got an
indication it's there. What is it?" I said, "I'm not going to tell
you. Go back and inquire about some of this." We set an appointment
for a week or so hence. She got back with me and said, "I asked what
Theta was and she said, 'psychic killers.' I asked her what Delta was
and she said 'killers.'" Okay. So I told her about some of this stuff
for a two-hour consult. She called back and she said, "This seemed too
fantastic. I heard this and I thought, 'Has Cory been working too
hard?'"  she said, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but she said, "I held
you in high professional regard, but this just sounded so off in the
twilight zone that I really thought, 'Is he having a nervous breakdown
or something?'" She said, "But I respected you enough to ask about
this." She said, "I asked another MPD patient and she didn't have any
of this." So in this patient she started describing things and how she
worked, for example, with an erasure and she was describing things
like robots vaporizing and kinds of things.  She said, "I hadn't told
her about any of these things." Well, here's the problem. There are
different layers and I think some of them are designed to keep us
going in circles forever. They figured we probably, in most cases,
wouldn't get below the alters which they purposefully created.

  The way you create Manchurian Candidates is you divide the mind.
It's part of what the Intelligence Community wanted to look at. If
you're going to get an assassin, you're going to get somebody to go do
something, you divide the mind. It fascinates me about cases like the
assassination of Robert Kennedy, where Bernard Diamond, on examining
Sirhan Sirhan found that he had total amnesia of the killing of Robert
Kennedy, but under hypnosis could remember it.  But despite 
suggestions he would be able to consciously remember, could not
remember a thing after he was out of hypnosis. I'd love to examine Sirhan
Sirhan.

  It appears that below this we've got some other layers. One is
called "Green Programming" it appears. Isn't it interesting that the
doctor's name is Dr. Green? One of the questions in a way that does
not contaminate is after I've identified some of this stuff is there
and they've given me a few right answers about what some of it is, "If
there were a doctor associated with this programming and his name were
a color, you know, like Dr.  Chartreuse or something, if his name were
a color, what color would the color be?" Now once in a while I've had
some other colors mentioned in about three or four patients that I
felt were trying to dissimulate in some way and I don't really believe
had this. In one case I got another color and I found out later it was
a doctor whose name was a color who was being trained by Dr. Green
almost thirty years ago and he supervised part of the programming of
this woman under this doctor. I remember one woman couldn't come up
with anything. No alter would speak up with anything. I said, "Okay,"
and we went on to some other material.  About two minutes later she
said, "Green. Do you mean Dr. Green?" We found this all over. There
appears to be some Green Programming below that and I suspect that you
get down to fewer and more central programs the deeper you go. Well,
all Green Programming is Ultra-Green and the Green Tree. Cabalistic
mysticism is mixed all into this. If you're going to work with this
you need to pick up a couple of books on the Cabala. One is by a man
named Dion Fortune called "Qabala" with a "q," Dion Fortune. Another
is by Ann Williams-Heller and it's called "The Kabbalah." I knew
nothing about the Cabala. It was interesting. A patient had sat in my
waiting area, got there considerably early and drew a detailed
multicolored Cabalistic Tree over two years ago. It took me two months
to figure out what it was. Finally, showing it to somebody else who
said, "You know? That looks an awful lot like the Cabala Tree" and
that rang a bell with some esoteric in an old book and I dug it
out. That was the background of Dr.  Green.

  Now the interesting thing about the Green Tree is his original name
was Greenbaum. What does "greenbaum" mean in German? Green Tree,
Ultra-Tree and the Green Tree. I've also had patients who didn't
appear to know that his original name was Greenbaum, volunteered that
there were parts inside named Mr.  Greenbaum. Now let me give you some
information about parts inside that may be helpful to you if you're
going to inquire about these things, because my experience is one part
will give you some information and either run dry or get defensive or
scared and stop. And so you punt and you make an end run and you come
around the other direction, you find another part. I'll tell you
several parts to ask for and ask if there's a part by this name. And,
by the way, when I'm screening patients and fiddling around with this,
I throw in a bunch of spurious ones and ask, "Is there a part inside
by this name and by that name" as a check on whether or not it appears
genuine. For example. "In addition to the core," I ask, "is there a
part inside named Wisdom?" Wisdom is a part of the Cabalistic Tree.
Wisdom, I've often found, will be helpful and give you a lot of
information. "Is there a part inside named Diana?" I mean I may throw
in all sorts of things. "Is there a part inside named Zelda?" I've
never encountered one yet! Just to see what kind of answers we get. I
try to do this carefully.  Diana is a part that, in the Cabalistic
system, is associated with a part called the Foundation. You will be
fascinated to know that. Remember the Process Church? Roman Polanski's
wife, Sharon Tate, was killed by the Manson Family who were associated
with the Process Church? A lot of prominent people in Hollywood were
associated and then they went underground, the books say, in about
seventy-eight and vanished? Well, they're alive and well in southern
Utah. We have a thick file in the Utah Department of Public Safety
documenting that they moved to southern Utah, north of Monument
Valley, bought a movie ranch in the desert, renovated it, expanded it,
built a bunch of buildings there, carefully monitored so that very few
people go out of there and no one can get in and changed their name. A
key word in their name is "Foundation." The Foundation.  There are
some other words. The Foundation is part of the Tree. So you can ask,
"Is there something inside known as The Foundation?" I might ask other
things to throw people off. "Is there something known as the Sub-
Basement?" Well, maybe they'll conceive of something. Or "Is there
something known as the Walls?" There are a variety of questions you
can come up with, to sort of screen some things.  I've also found that
there will often be a part called "Black Master," a part called
"Master Programmer," and that there will be computer operators inside.
How many of you have come into computer things in patients? There will
typically be computer operators: Computer Operator Black, Computer
Operator Green, Computer Operator Purple. Sometimes they'll have
numbers instead, sometimes they'll be called Systems Information
Directors. You can find out the head one of those. There'll be a
source of some information for you. I will ask inside, "Is there a
part inside named Dr. Green?" You'll find that there are, if they have
this kind of programming, in my experience. Usually with a little work
and reframing, you can turn them and help them to realize that they
were really a child-part who's playing a role and they had no choice
then, but they do now.  You know, they played their role very, very
well, but they don't have to continue to play it with you because
they're safe here and in fact, "If the Cult simply found out that you
talked to me, that they you had shared information with me, you tell
me what would they do to you?" Emphasize that the only way out is
through me and that they need to cooperate and share information and
help me and that I'll help them. So all these parts can give you
various information. 

Now they have tried to protect this very
carefully. Let me give you an example with Ultra-Green. I discovered
this -- by the way I used to think this programming was only in
bloodline people. I've discovered it in non-bloodline people, but it's
a bit different. They don't want it to be just the same. I don't think
you'll find deep things like Ultra-Green and probably not even Green
Programming with non-bloodline people. But let me tell you something
that I discovered first in a non-bloodline and then in a bloodline. We
were going along and a patient was close to getting well, approaching
final integration in a non-bloodline and she suddenly started
hallucinating and her fingers were becoming hammers and other things
like that. So I used an affect-bridge and we went back and we found
that what happened was that they gave suggestions, that if she ever
got well to a certain point she would go crazy. The way they did this
was they strapped her down and they gave her LSD when she was eight
years old. When she began hallucinating they inquired about the nature
of the hallucinations so they could utilize them in good Ericsonian
fashion and build on them and then combine the drug-effect with
powerful suggestions. "If you ever get to this point you will go
crazy. If you ever get fully integrated and get well you will go crazy
like this and will be locked up in an institution for the rest of your
life. They gave those suggestions vigorously and repetitively.
Finally they introduced other suggestions that, "Rather than have this
happen, it would be easier to just kill yourself." In a bloodline
patient then, as I began inquiring about deep material, the patient
started to experience similar symptoms. We went back and we found the
identical things were done to her.

  This was called the "Green Bomb."  B-O-M-B. Lots of interesting
internal consistencies like that play on words with Dr. Greenbaum, his
original name. Now in this case it was done to her at age nine for the
first time and then only hers was different. Hers was a suggestion for
amnesia.  "If you ever remember anything about Ultra-Green and the
Green Tree you will go crazy. You will become a vegetable and be
locked up forever." Then finally the suggestion's added, "And it'll be
easier to just kill yourself than have that happen to you, if you ever
remember it." At age twelve then, three years later, they used what
sounds like an Amytol interview to try to breach the amnesia and find
out if they could. They couldn't. So then they strapped her down
again, took and gave her something to kind of paralyze her body, gave
her LSD, an even bigger dose and reinforced all the suggestions. Did a
similar thing at the age of sixteen.  So these are some of the kind of
booby traps you run into. There are a number of cases where they
combined powerful drug effects like this with suggestions to keep us
from discovering some of this deeper level stuff. What's the bottom?
Your guess is as good as mine but I can tell you that I've had a lot
of therapists who were stymied with these cases who were going
nowhere. In fact someone here that I told some basic information
about this to in Ohio a couple of months ago said it opened all sorts
of things up in a patient who'd been going nowhere. That's an often
common thing. I think that we can move down to deeper levels and if we
deal with some of the deeper level stuff it may destroy all the stuff
above it. But we don't even know that yet. In some of the patients I'm
working with we have pretty much dealt with a lot of the top-level
stuff. I'll tell you how we've done some of that.  We'll take and
erase one system like Omega. Then we will have a huge abreaction of
all the memories and feelings in a fractionated abreaction associated
with those parts. I typically find I'll say to them, "Now that we've
done this are there any other memories and feelings that any parts
that were Omega still have?" The answer's usually "No." At that point
I will say, "I usually find at this point in time the majority, if not
all, of those parts that used to be Omega no longer feel a desire or
need to be different, realizing that you split off originally by them
and want to go home to Mary and become one with her again." I use the
concept often now -- which came from a patient -- of going home and
becoming one with her. "Going back from whence you came" is another
phrase I'll use with them. "Are there any Omega parts inside who do
not feel comfortable with that or have reservations or concerns about
that?" If there are we talk to them. We deal with them. A few may not
integrate. My experience is most of the time they'll integrate and we
may integrate twenty-five parts at once in a polyfragmented complex
MPD. I think it is vitally important to abreact the feelings before
you go on. Also for many patients it hasn't seemed to matter the order
we go in but I've found a couple where it has. If it doesn't seem to
matter I'll typically go Omega, then Delta because they have more
violence potential, then Gamma to get rid of the self-deception stuff.
What I will do before I just assume anything and do that, is once
we've done Omega and showed them that success can occur and something
can happen and they feel relief after, I will say to them, "I want to
ask the core -- through the fingers -- is there a specific order in
which programs must be erased?" You know maybe it doesn't matter but
most of the time I found "No."  There are cases where we found "Yes."
I recommend doing one or two or three of those because they'll produce
relief and and a sense of optimism in the patient.  But then I would
recommend starting to probe for the deeper level things and getting
their input and recommendations about the order in which we go.
  Question?

  Q: What has been the typical age and typical gender of this type of
person?

  Dr.H: I know of this being found in men and women. Most of the
patients I know with MPD ritual abuse that are being treated are
women, however. I know of some men being treated where we've found
this. A while back I was talking to a small group of therapists
somewhere. I told them about some of this. In the middle of talking
about some of this all the color drained out of one social worker's
face and she obviously had a reaction and I asked her about and she
said, "I'm working with a five-year-old boy," and she said, "Just in
the last few weeks he was saying something about a Dr. Green." I went
on a little further and I mentioned some of these things and she just
<h1>Error</h1>
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Subject: The Greenbaum Speech (4/4) ^Repost^
From: an170476@anon.penet.fi


  Q: It seems to me that there seems to be some similarity between
these kinds of programming and those people who claim that they've
been abducted by spaceships and have had themselves physically probed
and reprogrammed and all of that sort of thing. Since Cape Canaveral
is across the Florida peninsula from me and I don't think that they've
reported any spaceships lately, I was just wondering is there any sort
of relationship between this and that?

  Dr.H: I'll share my speculation, that comes from others really. I've
not dealt with any of those people. However, I know a therapist that I
know and trust and respect who I've informed about all this a couple
of years ago and has found it in a lot of patients and so on, who is
firmly of the belief that those people are in fact ritual-abuse
victims who have been programmed with that sort of thing to destroy
all their credibility. If somebody's coming in and reporting abduction
by a flying sauce who's going to believe them on anything else in the
future? Also as a kind of thing that can be pointed to and said, "This
is as ridiculous as that." All I know is that I recently had a
consult, a telephone consult, with a therapist where I had been
instructing her about some of this kind of stuff. When we were
consulting at one point in the fifth or sixth interview she said, "By
the way, do you know anything about this topic?" I said, "Well, not
really" and shared with her what I shared with you. I said, "If it
were me being with this guy..." that she'd been seeing for a couple of
months, I said, "I would ask inside for the core to take control of
finger-signals and inquire about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta." She
proceeded to do all that, got back to me a week later and said, "Boy,
were you on target. There is a part inside named Dr. Green. There's
this kind of programming."
  Yes?

  Q: What's the difference between this kind of program and cult-type
abuse and Satanic abuse in the kind of cults with the candles and
the...

  Dr.H: This type of programming will be done in the cults with the
candles and all the rest. My impression is this is simply done in
people where they have great access to them or they're bloodline and
their parents are in it and they can be raised in it from an early
age. If they are bloodline they are the chosen generation. If not,
they're expendable and they are expected to die and not get well.
There will be booby traps in your way if they aren't non-bloodline
people that when they get well they will kill themselves. I'll tell
you just a little about that. My belief is that some people that have
ritual abuse and don't have this have been ritually abused but they
may be may be part of a non-mainstream group. The Satanism comes in
the overall philosophy overriding all of this.  People say, "What's
the purpose of it?" My best guess is that the purpose of it is that
they want an army of Manchurian Candidates, ten of thousands of mental
robots who will do prostitution, do child pornography, smuggle drugs,
engage in international arms smuggling, do snuff films, all sorts of
very lucrative things and do their bidding and eventually the
megalomaniacs at the top believe they'll create a Satanic Order that
will rule the world.
  One last question. Then I'll give you couple of details and we need
to shift gears.

  Q: You have suggested and implied that at some point at a high level
of the U.S. Government there was support of this kind of thing. I know
we're short of time, but could you just say a few words about the
documentation that may exist for that suggestion?

  Dr.H: There isn't great documentation of it. It comes from victims
who are imperiled witnesses. The interesting thing is how many people
have described the same scenario and how many people that we have
worked with who have had relatives in NASA, in the CIA and in the
Military, including very high-ups in the Military. I can tell you that
a friend and colleague of mine who has probably the equivalent of half
the table space on that far side of the room filled with boxes with
declassified documents from mind-control research done in the past
which has been able to be declassified over a considerable -- couple
of decades -- period and has read more government documents about mind
control than anyone else, has a brief that has literally been sent in
the past week and a half asking for all information to be declassified
about the Monarch Project for us to try to find out more. Now let me
just mention something about some of the stuff that my experience is
in several patients now that you may run into late in the process. I
know I'm throwing a lot at you in a hurry. Some of it is completely
foreign and some of you may think, "Gosh, could any of this be true?"
Just, you know, ask. Find out in your patients and you may be lucky
and there isn't any of this. Somewhere at a deep level you may run
into some things like this. Let me describe to you, if I can find my
pen, the system in one patient. One patient I had treated for quite a
while, a non-bloodline person. We had done what appeared to be
successful work and reached final integration. She came back to me
early last year and said she was symptomatic with some things. I
started inquiring. I found a part there we'd integrated. The part
basically said, "There was other stuff that I couldn't tell you about
and you integrated me and so I had to split off."  I had done some
inquiring about things like Alpha, Beta as a routine part of it and
found they were there and I said to this part, "Why didn't you tell me
about this stuff?" She said, "Well, we gave you some hints but they
went right over your head." Says, "I'm sorry, but we know that you
didn't know enough to help us but now we know you can." So the stuff
started coming out. It was interesting.  She described the overall
system -- if I can remember it now -- as being like this. The circle
represented harm to the body, a system of alters whose primary purpose
was to hurt her including symptoms like Munchhausen's, self-
mutilation, other kinds of things. Each of the triangles represented
still another different system. She said, "With the exception of me,"
this one part, "you dealt with the whole circle with the work that we
did before but you didn't touch the rest of the stuff." Okay. In the
middle of all this was still another system consisting of the
Cabalistic Tree, which some of you are aware, looks approximately like
this with lines in between and so on and so forth. There's a rough
approximation. That represented another system. Then once we got past
that she implied that this entire thing was somehow encompassed by,
what do you call it, an hourglass. I kept thinking we were at final
integration then I'd find some other parts. This person had an eagle-
eye husband that was watching for certain things that we found to be
reliable indicators. So often I would get evidence of dissociation
within a few days. It would suddenly be picked up. You know, what we
found was I continued to find evidence of dissociation and I'd find
parts.  Finally this part, as I got angry with him and said, "Why when
I give these ideomotor inquiries am I getting lied to?" This part
said, "Because you don't understand. You're going to get us all
killed." We started talking and then she basically said, "It's been
programed so that if you succeed and think you've succeeded, you will
fail. They build it in as a way to laugh at you, that if you ever get
us integrated, we will die."  Here's what she said, this part said,
"I'm one of twelve disciples," and I've seen this in others, twelve
disciples within this hourglass each of whom had to memorize a
disciple-lesson which were basic Satanic kind of premises,
philosophies of life like "be good to those who hurt you, hate those
who are nice to you," on and on and on. There may be two or three
sentences like that associated with each that they had to memorize
them. They said, "We are like grains of sand falling and when the last
grain of sand falls, there's Death." I said, "Is Death a part?"
"Yes. When the last grain of sand falls the Sleeping Giant awakens."
The Sleeping Giant was Death, who was then to kill them on Day-One or
Day-Six after awakening unless certain things were followed and we did
some of those. Well we also found Death had a sister as a backup, used
with mirrors to create the sister part. We had to get past and deal
with that too. Death had certain things that they said had to be done
to integrate. I started to say, "Oh, come on, they lied to you
before." She said, "Wait a minute. This what they said you'd say.
They said that no doctor would ever believe that they had to go these
extremes to get us well and that's part of the reason they'd fail." I
said, "Well, tell me, tell me again." She said, "I have to be dressed
all in red. I have to have Demerol onboard, have taken Demerol. A code
has to be given and it has to be in a room that's totally dark.  It
has to happen on Day-One or Day-Six after this part's been awakened."
I said what I'd have to lose? I had a psychiatrist give her a little
Demerol. We used the code. My office didn't have any windows anyway.
It was pretty easy. Oh, and there had to be four, I think, candles
lit. Well, fine. So we did it and everything went well. Maybe it would
have gone well if we hadn't done it, but I decided not to take the
chance and to trust the patient maybe. Well, so we go on and then we
find another part. There's Death And Destruction, another backup also
with a sister that we had to get through. In fact, I think there were
two backups there. Interestingly, the very last part was an extremely
nice part, made especially that way so that they wouldn't want to lose
them because they would be so adorable and so loving and so sweet that
they wouldn't want to maybe get rid of them. Then we found that she
continued to have these feelings with this last part left now of
darkness and blackness inside. What did we find? A curtain. She said,
"They assumed that if you ever got to this point, you would," and
along the way, by the way, we had encountered this stuff about the LSD
stuff, the Green Bomb programming. The message was that she said,
"There is a curtain behind which are the remaining feelings and
memories, but it can't be opened from the middle. It's like a stage
curtain. It has to opened this way," that it can't be opened. They
assumed that you would try to deal with all the feelings. That can't
be opened until you've dealt with that last part and they've
integrated. So far it looks like we've got integration that's holding.
So I found Death And Destruction and the Hourglass in non-bloodline.
"The Tree and the Hourglass," this patient informed me, "were made of
sand because we were meant to die. We're expendable. We're the
unchosen generation." I've heard variously that it's crystals or blood
that fills the Hourglass in bloodline people.  By the way, you can do
real simple things like turn the Hourglass on its side so nothing can
fall out, so time stands still to be able to do certain kinds of work.
Spread the grains of sand on the seashore so that they can't be
numbered and the time will not be counted. Got that idea from a
ritual-abuse victim who had seen some of this kind of programming done
that another therapist was seeing. So those would be just a few other
hints about things that may be helpful or meaningful. We're talking
about very intensive things and at deep levels to to me this give us
two things. One thing it gives to me is hope because it gets to
material and it makes progress like nothing else we've ever seen with
these people who have it. The second thing it does for me is it
demoralizes me, too, because although three years ago I had a pretty
good idea about the extent and breadth of what they'd one to these
victims, I had no real appreciation for the depth and breadth and
intensity of what they'd done.
  I want to come back to the other question over here now. The other
question is how many of them can get well? We don't know. In most
things in the mental health profession we accept two-thirds of the
patients are going to improve, maybe seventy percent. There's very
little we can get everybody well. I think one of the sad things we
have to face is that many of these patients will probably never be
well. My personal belief is that if they are being messed with their
only hope of getting well is if they can somehow get out of contact.
Now I know patients who've gone to other states and simply had deep-
level alters pick up the phone and call and said, "This is our new
address and phone number" so that they could be picked up locally. I
mean in an inpatient unit for an extended period of time. If they are
in a Cult from their area and they are still being monitored and
messed with, my own personal opinion is we can't get them well and
can't offer more than humanitarian caring and supportiveness. Lots of
therapists do not like to hear that. That's my opinion. I believe that
if somehow they're lucky enough to be wealthy enough to have
protection, to have somehow gotten away in some way and we can work
with them without being messed with, that they have a chance to reach
some semblance of normality and livability with enough intensive
work. My own personal belief is I don't think anybody with this kind
of programming is well in this country yet. There are some who are
well along the way. I've got a couple who are well along in their work
and have done a tremendous amount, but they're clearly not well yet.

  Q: Could you speculate on the relationship between this stuff and
the fantasy games that have been proliferating, Dungeons and Dragons
and that sort of thing?

  Dr.H: Well, there are a lot of things out there to cue people. You
want to see a great movie, interesting movie, to cue people? Go see
"Trancers II." You can rent it in your video shop. Came out last fall.
One night in sheer desperation for something at the video store, you
know? Nine o'clock on Friday night.  Everything's gone. I rented a
couple of movies and one of them is that.  Fascinating. They're
talking about Green World Order. Yes, "Trancers II." And who is the
production company? Full Moon Productions. I couldn't see much cuing
in "Trancers I," but who's the production company in "Trancers I"?
Alter Productions. There are lots of things around that are cuing.
There's an interesting person in the late sixties who talked about the
Illuminati. Have any of you ever heard of the Illuminati with regard
to the Cult? Had a patient bring that up to me just about exactly two
years ago. We've now had other stuff come out from other patients.
Appears to be the name of the international world leadership. There
appear to be Illuminatic Counsels in several parts of the world and
one internationally. The name of the international leadership of the
Cult supposedly. Is this true? well, I don't know. It's interesting
we're getting some people who are trying to work without cuing who are
saying some very similar things. There was an old guy in Hollywood in
the late sixties who talked about the infiltration of Hollywood by the
Illuminati. Certainly what some patients have said is all of this
spook stuff, horror stuff, possession and everything else that's been
popularized in the last twenty years in Hollywood is in order to
soften up the public so that when a Satanic world order takes over,
everyone will have been desensitized to so many of these things, plus
to continually cue lots of people out there. is that true? Well, I
can't definitely tell you that it is. What I can say is I now believe
that ritual-abuse programming is widespread, is systematic, is very
organized from highly esoteric information which is published nowhere,
has not been on any book or talk show, that we have found all around
this country and at least one foreign country.
  Let's take a couple of quick questions and we need to get on to
other material. Yes?

  Q: Do you have any techniques for decreasing your level of
uncertainty that a patient is or is not being still tampered with,
"messed with," as you said?

  Dr.H: Just that I would ask several of the parts I've inquired
about, Core, Diana, Wisdom, Master Programmer, several parts inside I
would ask about these sorts of things and I will keep asking it. As
you do additional work and get a bit further, I would ask again to
find out. In the back?

  Q: I wonder if you've heard or you know of the Martin Luther
Bloodline?

  Dr.H: The what?

  Q: Martin Luther Bloodline?

  Dr.H: I know nothing about Martin Luther Bloodline. I'll give you
one other quick tip. Ask him about an identification code. There's an
identification code that people have. It will involve their birth
date. It may involve places where they were programmed and it will
usually involve a number in there that will be their birth order, like
zero-two if they were second-born. It will usually involve a number
that represents the number of generations in the Cult, if they are
bloodlines. I've seen up to twelve now, twelve generations.

  Q: I have seen a lot of the things you've been describing today in
several patients. I wanted to ask you a question about the Seven
Systems. You mentioned something about systems here. Are there Seven
Systems?

  Dr.H: There has been that described in some patients, yes, the
Seven Systems.

  Q: Could you say what that is or a little diagram?

  Dr.H: I don't think we know enough to know what it is, honestly. I
think it may have to do with Seven Cabalistic Trees.

  Q: Have you ever had any evidence where any of these people have
been tagged and there have been anything of their body-parts that
might be related to this, private parts in particular?

  Dr.H: Well, there are certainly people that have had tattoos, that
have had a variety of other kinds of things, some of which have been,
you know, documented in cases, but I mean to say, well, maybe they did
that to themselves or had it done consciously to really prove
something, not that occurs to right off the bat.
  Let me just take this one last question back and we need to go on to
other material because we're never going to get through it all. I'll
just ask you to hold your question.

  Q: It's not a question but I wanted to say for myself, personally,
and perhaps for others here as well, I wanted to thank you very
sincerely for taking this time to come forward. [Applause]

  Dr.H: Well, [Applause]

  Q: Does anyone want to join us for a standing ovation for this
material? It's wonderful. [Sustained applause]

  Dr.H: A dear friend who's one of the top people in the field, who I
know has had death threats, but I know struggled for professional
credibility in believing in MPD and was harshly criticized for even
believing in that ten and fifteen years ago, and struggled to a point
of professional credibility. I think in his heart of hearts he knows
it's true, but he will say things like, "I wouldn't be surprised to
find tomorrow it was an international conspiracy and I wouldn't be
surprised to find tomorrow that it is an urban myth and rumor." He
tries to stay right on the fence and the reason is because it's
controversial, because there is a campaign underway saying these all
false memories induced by, along with incest and everything else, by
"Oprah" and by books like "The Courage to Heal" and by naive
therapists using hypnosis. It's controversial. My personal opinion has
come to be if they're going to kill me, they're going to kill me.
There's going to be an awful lot of information that's been put away
that'll go to investigative reporters and multiple investigative
agencies, if it happens, and an awful lot of people like you , I hope,
that if I ever have an accident will be pushing for a very large-scale
investigation. I think we have to stand up as some kind of moral
conscience at some point and I tried to wait until we had gotten
enough verification from independent places to have some real
confidence that this was widespread.
  I know we've gone like a house afire to try to pack as much as I
could in for you. I hope it's given you some things to think about and
some new ideas and I appreciate being with you.
  [Long sustained applause]

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Subject: The Greenbaum Speech (3/4) ^Repost^
From: an170476@anon.penet.fi


(The last question in part three was truncated in the post.  This is 
complete question and response.)


  Q: Yeah, I'd like to know that. What kind of data do you have given
that you've had contact with large numbers of people. Not just threats
but also any injury, any family problems that have arisen. That's one
question. A second one is are you aware of anybody that you've treated
** or others ** with this level of dissociation and trauma that have
recovered? Integrated? Whole and happy?

  Dr.H: Okay, I have one non-bloodline multiple, complex multiple who
had this kind of programming where they have a lot of access to the
patient as neighbors and where the doctor, by the way, you'll find
physicians heavily involved.  They've encouraged their own to go to
medical school, to prescribe drugs to take care of their own, to get
access to medical technology and be above suspicion.  There have been
a couple, in fact, in Utah who've been nailed now. We now in Utah have
two full time ritual-abuse investigators with statewide jurisdiction
under the Attorney General's Office to do nothing but investigate
this. [Applause] Okay? In a poll done in the State of Utah in January
by the major newspaper and television station, they found that ninety
percent of Utahans believe that ritual abuse is genuine and real. Not
all of them believe it's a frequent occurrence but some of that was
imparted from two years of work by the Governor Commission on Ritual
Abuse, interviewing, talking, meeting people, gathering data. Now when
people say, by the way, "There's no evidence. They've never found a
body," that's baloney. They found a body in Idaho of a child.  They've
had a case last summer that was convicted on first-degree murder
charges, two people that the summer before that were arrested where
the teenaged girl's finger and head were in the refrigerator and they
were convicted of first-degree murder in Detroit. There have been
cases and bodies. Back to risk.  I know of no therapist who's been
harmed. But patients inform us that there will come a future time
where we could be at risk of being assassinated by patients who've
been programmed to kill at a certain time anyone that they've told and
any member of their own family who's not active. If that would come
about is speculative. Who knows for sure? Maybe, but I don't think
it's entirely without risk.
  A question in the back?

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