UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 8 British Stealth Aircraft From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 05:54:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 09:00:26 -0400 Subject: British Stealth Aircraft Priority: normal ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 11:01:26 -0100 To: skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu From: John Burtenshaw <jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk> Subject: More on British Stealth Cc: jburtens@athena.bournemouth.ac.uk Hi Following on from the discussion regarding British Triangles et al I am rposting this from another list for information (and comments). 1 A small 30ft black triangular craft has been seen by members of the public on the ground at WARTON (British Aerospace) 2 It is believed that it is a prototype UAV, designated HALO and can perform up to 9G turns. 3 It has been seen by numerous people in the Meols Cop, Banks and Hesketh Bank areas north of Southport. 4 Test flights are accompanied by a Tornado, callsign "Tarnish 3" 5 A D-Notice has been served on the BBC warning it NOT to report on Britain's Stealth program. 6 A larger triangular craft is in operation over Britain and has been seen at Boscombe Down. Notes for non-British readers. A D-Notice is legal request, originally meant for newspaper editors, asking organisations not to publish any stories that may endanger the nation's security. It has been extended to TV and Radio broadcasters. There is a large fine and/or imprisonment if it is ignored. The D stands for Defence. It was described to me by a newspaper reporter like this, Quote - If I see a tank with square wheels and want to write an article on it I have to talk to my editor who checks to see if a D-notice exists, if it does the story gets spiked. Unfortunately the D-Notice system has been extended to cover things not directly connected with Defence topics such as MPs private lives on the spurious notion that it may give benefit to our potential enemies. It has become a convenient way of censoring the press at the same time maintaining the guise of a *free press*. Sometimes the public will see a D-Notice in action as a story appears which looks as if it will run and run but then suddenly disappears from the media -end quote. Boscombe Down is a test centre on a main road which allows spotters easy viewing of some parts of it. There are *no photography* signs at regular places and it is patrolled by Ministry of Defence Police officers who usually turn a blind eye to the activities of the spotters, except when the mystery aircraft (widely reported on this list) crashed there a few years ago who threatened the spotters with legal action if they did not leave the area immediately. The road was closed for several hours causing chaos to rush hour traffic. Britain being a small island has not got as many places to hide its "black" aircraft as the US has. The British Govt has had a long history of succesfully keeping its secrets away from public gaze (including the real costs of Defence projects) and although this maybe fanciful or inaccurate reporting, there maybe more than just a hint of truth in it. Regards John ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 11 Test From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:28:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:28:13 -0800 Subject: Test +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 17:39:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:20:15 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > That is unadulterated poppycock! Before information > becomes classified, it is is the public domain and out > there. What we call Area 51 was at one time desert of no > use or value to anyone except to the owners of the Groom Mine > and it wasn't until 1958 that the > public was denied access to enter the area. That is a fact > in the public domain. The air space above it was restricted > before 1958 dating back to the construction of the facilities > for the U-2 program in 1955. That is a fact and in the public domain. > Released information on Area 51 shows conclusively that the > area called Area 51 relates specifically to the co-ordinates of > the public land seized in 1958. The first known usage of the term > area 51 was 1960. What we don't know about Area 51 > is what post dates the U-2 program, not before. Real people worked > and lived there and even had photographic coverage of the area in the > NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC. > > > Proclamations are not the same as evidence. > > Stan Friedman > > Then provide evidence to support any of your claims related to MJ-12? > There is zero, zip, nada, zilch in your new book that establishes > any linkage to MJ-12 as a real program. You are the expert on > proclamations. Show me that I am wrong by presenting any iota of > evidence or linkage to support the proclamation that MJ-12 is a real > program or organization worthy of further inquiry. > > Ed Stewart Ed, Please stop the name calling, it makes you look childish. Yes, there is plenty of information on the Groom Lake area, even pictures. There is also undoubtedly lots of classified information on the base at Groom Lake. Even if those files SHOULD be public domain, I doubt they are going to happily hand them over thus fueling further rumors/theories. Ask yourself this: If MJ-12 exists or existed, do you think they'd just let some REAL evidence lay around in NARA? If the Lazar story was real,(I don't think it is) and you wanted your secret kept, wouldn't you discredit him? Sometimes to make headway it's almost best to think backwards, become what you're chasing after. Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:58:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:49:49 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' Reply to Dennis Stacy..... >> and no quotes,= John Velez > = Dennis >Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:37:05 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > >At 02:37 AM 12/10/96 -0500, John Velez wrote: > >>Hi Dennis, >>Until now I had given you credit for being an intelligent guy. Abortion >>guilt anxiety complex?! If you weren't serious I'd be laughing my ass >>>>off. I've got news for you, I think that it would be easier for an >>>>ductions before they'd buy into your "fetal infanticide/guilt theory. >>Of >>all the convoluted crap that's ever been concocted to explain >>abductions >>yours is a real prize winner. Gotta give you credit for >>creativity >>though. >Let me give you some credit, too, John. While expressing considerable >indignation and ridicule, you express not the least interest or curiousity >in my hypothesis as originally presented. Therefore I won't be sending you >>a copy, as in why bother? Dennis, I play chess. And even though I have the option at each turn to select from any given number of moves, "some of them" are obviously wrong and exclude themselves. Your "theory", speaking as an experiencer, falls into that category. It just doesn't apply Dennis. You don't have to stick your head into a barrel of bad pork to know that it stinks. >>O-K Dennis, if I'm reading this right,... because we all were involved in >>some way with the abortion of an unborn child,... our guilt then causes >>>>us to hallucinate little grey fetuses that kidnap us in the night,... >>>>perform medical and other procedures,... leave visible marks, scars, >>and >>in some cases ground trace evidence,... and then disappear into the >>night >>on flying saucers. >Are you saying that all of the above elements are typical? Most of Mack's >cases don't report anything that could be interpreted as a classical >>"flying saucer"--which is part of the problem. Keerist Dennis, read my question carefully. And yes, items such as the paralysis, the beings involved, the proceedures, and the craft (are) commonly and widely reported. No, not in all cases, but in (enough of them) my own included, for me to use them in a "generic" example. Don't tell me that you're just finding out that there is a "pattern" to all of this? >>Why don't you just say that you think we're all nuts. Fetal infanticidal/ >>guilt/common hallucination,....sounds freaking nuts to me. Where on Gods >>good earth did you come up with this 'abortion' of a theory. (Pun >>intended) >The answer here is exceedingly simple: Because I don't think you are all >nuts, nor did I insinutate anything resembling same in my brief public >remarks to Greg Sandow or in the theory itself. The theory came about not >>to specifically explain your experience, or that of Whitley Streiber, but >>in an honest attempt to address the sheer number of reports suggested by >>the flawed Roper Report, which holds that more than four million >Americans >alone have been abducted and subjected to the same experience >you report. >In an article in Fate magazine ("Millions of Americans >Abucted?", >September 1992), I showed why those numbers could not stand up >under >scrutiny, as have many others since. Dennis if you want to expose the flaws in a survey then do that. But to suggest that the abductions could be explained away with something as convoluted as fetal/infanticide/guilt is simplistic and doesn't begin to acknowledge or address the (other) attendant phenomena, which I have already listed here, connected to the abduction experience. You can't be selective as to which part of the reports you are going to address. If you're going to deal with an explanation of "abductions" the physical components MUST BE taken into account. There are too many folks out there with marks and scars on their bodys that appear overnight,...to dismiss it ALL as misinterpretation or a psychological delusion is unfair to those courageous enough to come forward and report it, and just poor science. The theory has to fit the phenomena not the other way around. >>Hey Dennis wanna hear a really far out theory? We're telling the truth! >You're telling the truth as you perceive it... Yes, I am, and your point is...? >No blame, but on a good day even Whitley Streiber admits that he doesn't >>have the foggiest notion of what is going on. As far as "alien intentions and motivations" go yes! I agree, I have no idea. As far as the "existence" of these beings goes, of that I personally have no doubt. When they wake you in the middle of the night and take you out of your house in your underwear, they're kind of 'hard to deny' Dennis! >So are you saying you've had the exact experience as Streiber? Generally yes, there are differnces in specific content, but then no two conversations or events are ever "exactly alike" The "general" scenario, (and more than a few specifics) that Whitley has so eloquently discribed hold true however. >And what, exactly, would that experience be? Terror, confusion, paralysis, disorientation. Some calm moments, some not so calm. But PHYSICAL, and VERY real. >Streiber has long since divorced himself from the notion of physical ETs. >>Have you? NOPE! I firmly believe that we are dealing with a physical (as in occupies 3 dimensional space, and has mass and substance) phenomenon. I believe that if you knock on a UFO you'll hear the "Ping"! >The answer to your first two questions are yes and no, and yes, I also >>have a kid. I also don't have one -- who was aborted. The yes part is why >>I began to think about my theory in the first place. Dennis, why don't you do what Whitley and I did. When I first began to suspect my involvement,I went to a psychologist, (contrary to popular myth) and had myself tested. Try working out your 'personal issues' that way, rather than "projecting" them on us,(and putting 'US' into the position of having to answer and explain them) thank you very much. >As for "using Whitley"...excuse me, John, but it was Whitley -- of his own >>free will and choice -- who opted to make his exterior and intimate >>interior life a matter of public inspection and record in the first place >>(while turning a tidy profit off same), not me. Whitley had the courage and conscience to publicly report what was happening to himself and his family. I don't see how permission to use his name in the kind of insulting example that you made is implied in any of that! And let me ask you a question Dennis, why is it that you can make a buck off of your published work, and it's not O-K for Whitley? Are you jealous that Whitley made (more money) than you? What gives? You say that as if the man committed an unexcusable crime. He published a book or three and they sold! God bless him,...what's wrong with that for Christs sake? Did I miss something here or aren't we allowed to make money in America anymore? Whitley didn't stand around on street corners holding a gun on the public to buy his books. They chose to. >I'm just asking a question about same here. If you or him are >offended by same, what can I say? If you don't want to spill your guts in >public and then be questioned about same, the solution is fairly >straightforward: just don't do it. When I'm offended "I WILL SAY" a lot! And sorry, but you're not going to make me or any of the other abductees that have come forward "just go away" you're going to have to deal with me (and them) susquatch, like it or not. You have to be a lot more than "taller" than me, to run me off buckaroo! After having to deal with aliens, humans are "easy meat" try again though, I love a good challenge! <G> Take care sus' John Velez, Here to stay! jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 A Scientific Review of Photon and Light From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:01:12 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:44:10 -0500 Subject: A Scientific Review of Photon and Light Taken from the Photon Belt Page at http://www.salemctr.com/photon.html SCIENTIFIC REVIEW OF PHOTON & LIGHT =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ =20 =20 =20 Photon is not a new word, it has been around since the early part of this century....maybe earlier=85..just not recorded. The Cat Scan or PET is an example of Photon energy. _________________________________________________________________ =20 =20 =20 Copyright 1995 by Grolier Electronic Publishing, Inc. =20 Photon {foh'-tahn} =20 =20 A photon is a quantum of light, or the smallest possible packet of light at a given wavelength. It is emitted by an atom during a transition from one energy state to another. =20 As FUNDAMENTAL PARTICLES, photons travel at the speed of light and have mass and momentum dependent on their frequencies. By classical reasoning a photon would have the apparent dualistic property of being either a particle or a wave disturbance. That is, such phenomena as INTERFERENCE and diffraction require an interpretation in terms of the wave characteristics of photons, but such phenomena as the PHOTOELECTRIC EFFECT require an interpretation in terms of the particle nature of the photon. Quantum mechanics is able to resolve this dilemma by assigning probabilistic characteristics to the motions of atoms and photons. =20 The energy associated with an individual photon is quite minute. For instance, a photon in the visible spectrum would contain an energy of approximately 4 X (10 to the power of -19) joules. Thus, a perfectly efficient 100-watt light bulb would emit approximately 2.5 X (10 to the power of 20) photons per second. D. J. Lovell Bibliography: Goldin, E., Waves and Photons (1982). Copyright 1995 by Grolier Electronic Publishing, Inc. _________________________________________________________________ =20 LIGHT =20 =20 Light is ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIATION in the wavelength range extending from about 0.4 micron to about 0.7 micron; or, perhaps more properly, the visual response to electromagnetic radiation in this range. By extension, the term is frequently applied to adjacent wavelength ranges that the eye cannot detect: ULTRAVIOLET LIGHT, infrared light (see INFRARED RADIATION), and black light. In addition to wavelength, FREQUENCY, in hertz, and wavenumber, in inverse units of length, are also used to specify and designate the character and quality of the radiation. Associated with wavelength or frequency is the visual response of COLOR. The term monochromatic is applied to the idealized situation in which the light in a beam is all of one wavelength. =20 CHARACTERIZATION OF LIGHT Light is characterized not only by wavelength, essentially a temporal quality, but also by state and degree of polarization (see POLARIZED LIGHT), a geometric or directional quality, and by intensity, essentially a physical quality. The visual response to intensity is brightness. In the human visual system, at least, there is no counterpart response, to the state and degree of polarization, but ample evidence exists that certain arthropods--bees in particular--are sensitive to the state of polarization of sky light. There is some speculation that certain migrating birds may also respond to this quality of light. =20 Light is further characterized by its degree of coherence (see COHERENT LIGHT). Coherence, closely related to the degree of polarization and to the degree of monochromaticity, refers to the ability of a beam of light to interfere (see INTERFERENCE) with itself. Coherence is therefore an interferometric property of light. By the use of a Michelson INTERFEROMETER, most light sources can be made to produce interference fringes. These are clearest when the length of the two arms of the interferometer are equal. As one arm is lengthened, however, the contrast of the fringes is seen to decrease until they are no longer visible. Unfiltered light from an incandescent source will barely produce fringes under any circumstances. Light from a mercury arc lamp will produce fringes over a range of one or two centimeters. On the other hand, light from a continuous-wave gas laser has produced fringes at a distance of over 100 meters. Therefore, light can be characterized by its degree of coherence or coherence length. =20 Light is a transport of energy. It can be regarded both as a particulate flow and as a wave phenomenon. These two apparently diametrically opposed views have been brought together in a theory that combines the best features of each. The particulate unit is the PHOTON, which has associated with it a central frequency or wavelength that determines (or is determined by) the amount of energy it contains. In a so-called monochromatic beam, the photons are all of the same energy and therefore have the same frequency. They can be made to interfere, which indicates a high degree of coherence as well as a more or less uniform state of polarization. If the distribution of the energy in the photons is more random, however, the beam will be less coherent and will have a lower degree of polarization. =20 It is also convenient to think of light as propagating as wavefronts (see HUYGENS's PRINCIPLE). These waves, like the crest of an ocean wave, are surfaces on which the phase relationship is constant. Unlike an ocean wave, a wavefront or surface of constant phase is unobservable and undetectable. Light may be considered as energy being transported in a train of wavefronts. The direction of propagation (except for anisotropic media) is in a direction perpendicular to the wavefront. Rays can be conceived as trajectories of photons. =20 LIGHT PRODUCTION Light, like any other electromagnetic radiation, results from either an accelerating electric charge or a nuclear fusion or fission reaction. In nuclear reactions, a PHOTON is created in the same manner as other elemental partial products of the reaction. With the exception of sunlight and starlight, however, light usually is the result of changes in the electronic structure of atoms and molecules as they absorb and readmit energy. =20 The incandescent electric light has as its light source the heat that results from the ohmic resistance of the filament to the electric current. A red-hot poker absorbs heat directly from the fire resulting from the liberation of chemical energy. As the material in the filament or poker heats up, the atoms and molecules gain kinetic energy, which is realized by an increase in the number of collisions among the particles. Boiling off of some of the material is one mechanism that can be used to maintain an equilibrium temperature. Another mechanism is for the electrons associated with the various atoms in the metal to move to higher ENERGY LEVELS. When they drop back to lower energy levels they emit a PHOTON, keeping the temperature of the material more or less constant despite the fact that energy is continually supplied. The excess energy is emitted as light. =20 Thermal production of light is essentially random and is idealized as BLACKBODY RADIATION. The light produced contains a mixture of wavelengths skewed around a central maximum, which is related to the temperature T of the material in degrees Kelvin. This relation, is known as the Wien displacement law. The spectrum produced by the light from such a source is continuous. Although there is a dominant wavelength, this light is not monochromatic. It is generally unpolarized and has a relatively short coherence length. =20 Another type of light source is energized plasma such as a flame or the gas in a discharge tube such as a neon bulb. Although light is produced by a mechanism similar to thermal emission, the atoms are in a gaseous phase and less random. The energy levels reached by the electrons depend more on the electronic structure of the atoms themselves, and therefore the photons emitted tend to be clustered around specific wavelengths. The spectrum produced by such a source is not at all continuous but consists of lines or bands that are characteristic of the atoms or molecules in the gas. Highly monochromatic light can be obtained from this type of source, particularly if the light is filtered. The light has a much longer coherence length but is generally unpolarized. =20 A third type of source is the LASER. Two principles are involved in laser operation. First, the lasing material is composed of atoms, or mixtures of atoms, that have a peculiar energy level structure. As they absorb energy, their electrons move up to higher energy levels, tending to accumulate at certain metastable levels. This is called population inversion. There they remain until stimulated by a PHOTON of the proper frequency. Then the electrons drop to a lower energy level, emitting a photon of the same frequency and traveling in the same direction as the incident, stimulating photon. Because a single photon may stimulate the release of a large number of additional photons, the total number of photons is increased, thus increasing the intensity of the light within the medium. The process is referred to as gain. =20 The second principle is the geometry of the laser itself. The laser can be regarded as a hollow tube, much like an organ pipe, which is tuned to the wavelength of the emitted photons. The process can be visualized as a wavefront being reflected back and forth between the two ends of the laser, picking up more photons with each reflection. The portion of the light that is permitted to escape from the cavity is highly monochromatic, with a long coherence length. In some circumstances the laser output is highly polarized. DUALISTIC NATURE OF LIGHT The historical development of a theory of light, at least from the 17th century on, involved two apparently contradictory descriptions. One concept was the corpuscular theory, which envisioned light as a stream, or flow, of small particles. Rene DESCARTES modified this concept. He viewed light more as a pressure than as a flow--not as motion but as a tendency to motion. And since light was not motion it was not limited by a finite velocity. In other words, a beam of light required no time of transit. Pierre FERMAT held a different view. He believed not only that light propagated at a finite velocity, but also that its particles described trajectories or rays. Christiaan HUYGENS, on the other hand, was a believer that light was a wave phenomenon. Light propagated at a finite velocity in the form of a moving disturbance, just as a water wave moves as a ripple on a smooth pond. =20 As a ray of light passes across a surface from one medium to another (for example, from air to glass), its direction is changed--a phenomenon known as REFRACTION. The law of refraction, discovered first empirically by Willebrord SNELL, then subsequently derived formally by Descartes and Fermat, states that sin r =3D K sin i, where i is called the angle of incidence, the angle between the incident ray and the normal (perpendicular) to the refracting surface. The angle of refraction, r, is the angle between the refracted ray and the surface normal. =20 Fermat and Descartes agreed on the form of the refraction law, but they disagreed violently on the meaning of the constant K. Fermat saw K as being proportional to the reciprocal of the velocity of propagation. Descartes, even though he believed that the velocity of propagation was infinite, concluded, on a different level of logic, that K was proportional to a velocity. The distinction is important because whether light speeds up or slows down as it passes into a denser medium determines the meaning of K. =20 Two opposing points of view evolved. Descartes and Fermat were both proponents of a corpuscular theory; Huygens believed in a wave theory. He also obtained a proof of the refraction law in terms of the existence of wavefronts, a construction now called Huygens's principle. =20 If light is a wave phenomenon, then a medium is required. Sound waves travel through the air but not through a vacuum; ripples require a watery medium. At first it was thought that air would be the medium that would support the propagation of light. The simple experiment of shining light through an evacuated jar, however, showed clearly that this theory was not correct. Theorists chose to hypothesize the existence of a medium called the ETHER. =20 Experimental evidence to support the wave theory of light was particularly strong. DIFFRACTION, the ability of light to bend around a sharp edge, certainly gave credence to the idea that light was a form of wave motion. Further support came with the discovery of polarization, which indicated that the undulations of a light wave were transverse to the direction of propagation and were not longitudinal, as were sound and water waves. Thus, if light was to be a wave phenomenon, the ether was required, and if so, then certain effects should be observed when a massive body passed through the ether. To detect such effects, telescope tubes were filled with water to determine the effect on starlight. No effect was observed. Experiments to detect an ether "drag" also failed. =20 On the other hand, James BRADLEY discovered stellar aberration in 1729 when he found that he had to aim his telescope a little in the direction of the Earth's motion ahead of the theoretical position of a star. This effect could be compared to a person in a rainstorm tilting his umbrella a little in front of him as he walks into the rain. Bradley's discovery supported a corpuscular theory, or at least it did not support the idea of an ether drag. =20 But, it was postulated, if ether exists, then another observable phenomenon, ether "drift," must also exist. If both the Earth and light are moving through the ether, then the velocity of light observed on the Earth would depend on the direction of observation. The ether was regarded as stationary; the Earth and other planets, the Sun and the stars, and light moved through it. By measuring the apparent velocity of light in various directions, one could determine the absolute velocity and direction of motion of the Earth. =20 In the late 19th century A. A. MICHELSON and E. W. Morley (1838-1923) attempted to measure the absolute motion of the Earth through the ether (see MICHELSON-MORLEY EXPERIMENT). No ether drift was observed. The conclusion was the inconceivable notion that the velocity of light was constant and independent of the motion of the observer. This paradox led to Einstein's special theory of RELATIVITY, a cosmological theory of major significance. O. N. Stavroudis Bibliography: Babbitt, E.S., The Principles of Light and Color (1980); Buchwald, J.Z., The Rise of the Wave Theory of Light (1989); Haken, Hermann, Light: Waves, Photons, Atoms (1981); Jaffe, Bernard, Michelson and the Speed of Light (1960; repr. 1979); Jenkins, Francis A., Fundamentals of Optics, 4th ed. (1975); Morris, Richard, Light, from Genesis to Modern Physics (1979); Sabra, A.I., Theories of Light from Descartes to Newton (1981); Sobel, M.I., Light (1989); Walker, Jearl, intro. by, Light and Its Uses: Reading from Scientific American (1980). =20 EOF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 17:49:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:21:44 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 UFO UpDates - Toronto posted: > From: KRandle993@aol.com > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:28:24 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > In a message dated 96-12-10 00:01:58 EST, Ed Stewart wrote: > << Yes, one of several. Without getting into a lot of minutia here, another > <important smoking gun that the SOM is bogus is the reference to "downed > <satellites" as an "acceptable alternative" cover story to keep the media > <away. (GRIN) Remember this was alleged to be 1954. The first artificial > <satellite was launched in 1957 by the Russians with our entry in early > <1958. A "cover story" of a "downed satellite" in 1954 would have aroused > <the attention of the media with such fury that it would have probably > <relegated Senator Joseph McCarthy's television hearings to the back > <pages of the newspapers. (GRIN) Leads me to believe that the fabricators > <of the MJ-12 saga were either not even born in 1954, or that at minimum > <were extremely naive of historical events related to the early space age. > <One thing is certain, such a "cover story" would not have kept the media > <at a distance, but it would have attracted it like flies on honey - yet, > <we are lead to believe that MJ-12 felt it would be an appropriate > <deception as early as 1954. > <I find it odd that the above anachronism didn't keep nuclear physicist > <Stanton T. Friedman from embracing this albatross in his rush to be the > first > <one on the block to publish it. One would think that a nuclear physicist > <with fourteen years experience in space programs in the fifties and sixties > <should know better. At minimum, one would think that in publishing it, he > <would have mentioned the above anachonism to his readers, but not a peep > <in his book. (GRIN) > <Love can be blinding. > <Ed Stewart >> Ed, Before you continue bashing Mr. Friedman, you should know that the SOM manual has been around since 1994(If memory serves). Lets see.. I get a paper today.. I publish it 2 years later, boy I'm rushing out and publishing it before someone else does aren't I? Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: IUFO: Fwd: New UFO Magazine From: ng@shannon.tellabs.com (Nick Gleeson) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 14:35 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:26:28 -0500 Subject: Re: IUFO: Fwd: New UFO Magazine > --------------------- > Forwarded message: > Subj: New UFO Magazine > Date: 96-12-10 20:03:38 EST > From: RobertC130 > To: Ndunlks > > UFO REALITY, a bi-monthly, 64 ppg, full-color, glossy magazine is now > available in the US and Canada. Each issue contains intelligent, feature and > review articles devoted to the UFO phenomenon on an international scale. If > you're fed up with the tabloidish approach to the subject employed by others, > this magazine is for you. > TO RECEIVE A FREE SAMPLE COPY - just send along a mailing address and we will > send one right out via first class mail!! > Sorry, but I beg to differ, I have purchased a couple of copies of this magazine and it found it to be rather like the tabloids!!! One article in the second edition mentioned that a UFO was spotted over Ireland and that the Irish army scrambled fighter jets to intercept the object.... The Irish army dont have any fighter jets, or fighter planes for that matter. As far as I know they have a a couple of turbo prop trainers that they use for air displays. I contacted the goverment offices about the incident, they knew nothing, and neither did the residents of Ennis in County Clare where the incident was supposed to have taken place. So come on guys, just because we're Irish, dont try to pull the wool over our eyes. -Niko.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Archival Research From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:12:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:27:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Archival Research Dear Jan, It may assist your project to learn that CAUS did discover a huge batch of microfilm about a couple of years ago that contained numerous references to "Foo Fighters" from the logs of US Night Fighter squadrons based in England during WWII. Names, places, dates and descriptions - an absolute treasure trove. No more speculation or theories, the folks back then were plagued by the things and having safely returned to England from flights over occupied, and later France after D-Day, everything was meticulously logged in the de-briefing sessions with the pilots concerned. Suggest you give them a call! All the best, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Code of ethics From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:13:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:25:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of ethics ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > Date: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 11:50 PM > > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:40:56 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > References: <2.2.32.19961210064513.00bf9188@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > > > > > > You open up a good point here John, fortunately > > > > those who are properly trained have it covered.;-) > > > I wish that were true. > > It is my friend. But considering those like Boylan, I can see > > why you feel this way. > > Well, if we use the overly simple analogy that life is a football game > we get three types of people: Spectators, players (et. al.) and those > on the bench (for whatever reason). > > Psychology's two primary purposes, within the context of the analogy, > are: 1) to get folks off the bench either by getting them back in the > game or by getting them in the seats watching the game; 2) Try and > determine what got them on the bench in the first place so as to better > develop methodologies for helping future benchees. Good analogy! > We are incorrect if we expect traditional psychologists to be the alien > abduction private detectives that the abductionists pretend to be. That > is something they are _not_ trained for and something they are generally > _not_ going to be good at. Correct. But, due to the tremendous amount of psychic shock attendant to most if not all 'alien' abduction cases, these are the 'professionals' who are likely to be chosen to deal with the problem. Privately (now known by any who reads this), I feel that the shock would be better dealt with by one steeped in spirituality then in psychology. I suspect that spirituality has everything to do with the problem. By 'spirituality' I AM not necessarily referring to those of a clerical persuasion, although there are certainly those of the ministry that are of a high degree of spirituality. There are a multitude of facets to this gem of inquiry my friend. Among these is awareness. > Tough question: What's more important - getting the self-claimed > abductees off the bench and back into the game; or, finding out what > really happenned to them? Both are of equal importance John and both can be accomplished in my view. > Take a glance at the Hippocratic Oath and it'll give you a clue as to > the answer the mental health community selects. Don't get me started on that one! <grin> > So, if we separate treatment from the detective work I think we can see > that virtually all MHPs are basically qualified to initiate (or to > facilitate) work with a self-claimed abductee. The only facet of the equation that pertains to mental health and this is marginal, is the extreme amount of trauma emotionally that one receives as a result of this type of experience. I was very nearly a basket case by the time that hypno-regression was offered to me by a practicing psychologist. Having had no other offered alternative or not being aware of one, I jumped at the chance. > Another misconception regarding psychotherapy that sometimes confuses > things is the notion that whatever it is that's bother someone must be > either proven right to be dealt with successfully or must be proven > wrong and elimnated from their minds before theraputic success can > occur. Both are completely wrong and neither are a part of traditional > psychotherapy. I suppose to some degree I experienced this, but as you must realize, I AM somewhat an independent thinker and I couldn't honestly buy the 'party line'. I have always run partially on my intuition and at times it has kept me alive. Don't ask me to elaborate because I won't. Be that as it may, when I have chosen not to follow my intuition I can state that it served to cause me to remember that I should have. <grin> My intuition has screamed that there is more to my experience then meets the eye. I have been extremely reluctant to go back into it. Perhaps I AM becoming ready to enter into what exactly happened once again. > A good example is a somewhat unorthodox psychotherapist (sorry, can't > remember his name, he's in Florida) who pretty much routinely uses > hypnotic regression on patients with various phobias. He regresses them > back through 'time' until he comes across an incident involving the > object of the patient's phobia (spiders, deep water, whatever) and then > focuses on that incident to _begin_ treatment on the phobia. He has a > phenomenal success rate in treating phobias. He doesn't for a second > 'believe' in past life regression but he knows the value of personal > memory and personal experiences. Toward the end of the treatment he > counsels his patients that past lives may or may not be real, what's > real is that they were once stricken with a particular phobia and now > are not. A wise man. I have watched Julie use similar technique. > > > Hypnotic regression is simply an unreliable and not > > > infrequently an undesirable tool - that's why. > > I recognize that I cannot change your mind John. I will however > > continue to maintain that used properly with attendant > > safeguards to contamination, hypnosis is an excellent tool in > > this type of research. > > Well, I suspect the debate on hypnotic regression isn't going to go away > anytime soon so you and can just respectfully disagree for now <grin>. It takes an intelligent, honest and unbiased practitioner. However, it is O.K. that we have different opinions, I still like yuh. <grin> > > > Sorry, but that's just not the case. Age is a probably a > > > factor but it doesn't magically get better or go away with adults. > > I'd appreciate some reference to documentation that what was > > stated above by you is in fact valid. > > I have several papers on my BBS dealing with eyewitness observation > studies. Children are more easily fooled, and more easily fool > themselves but the problem doesn't go away with age. Adult > observational accuracy is only about 50%. Julie states that she is familiar with what you are stating and that you are correct. But she adds, that has nothing to do with hypnosis and everything to do with eyewitness observation. Eyewitness accounts contain the most fault of all as they are nearly in every case different from one another. > > problems, John. This is NOT a scientific problem, but one of > > awareness. Cognition. > > The problem exists upon many levels and is real. However, it is > > not going to be studied with any chance of success using > > traditional methodology. Once one accepts this, new > > possibilities begin to arise. > > If that's true then we're going to be waiting a _LONG_ time...<grin> Perhaps. I sincerely hope not as our future existence may very well depend upon it. > > John, it occurs to me that one does what I did. I know that you > > cannot appreciate what a state of distress that I found myself > > within. I need to remind you that I did have a witness to attend > > phenomena to my abduction. I AM referring to the paranormal > > occurrences going on while I was being taken. I might add that > > this person was out of sightline to me. > > I can only, just barely, in the most modest way, appreciate what you > experienced. But remove yourself from the equation for a moment. You > had extraordinary experiences, some of which may have been witnessed (or > maybe they were shared). But aside from the testimonial power of taking > your word for it how do we objectify the experiences and convince anyone > else that they occurred? I don't know other than to undertake what you have suggested, that is to be constantly monitored. However, I want to present another can of worms. This may in reality be a REAL catch 22, John. The indicator of this is the seeming fact that the phenomena itself controls it's own flow of information concerning itself. Vallee has done a lot of discussion on this aspect if I understand it correctly. I suspect that in many if not all of the cases, if a person is being monitored, the events will cease or failing that the monitoring equipment will be rendered useless for a period of time corresponding to yet another reported abduction. What does one do in such a situation? It is obvious that something is occurring, but what? > Its not up to me to believe or disbelieve someone. How do we _prove_ to > someone that something happenned? You got me, buddy. Still, you have to admit that based upon the numbers alone, there is something decidedly strange going on. I feel it is ominous. It serves to unsettle me to a degree. I don't feel good about it when I think of it. Furthermore on another note, it is most unsettling to note that on the New Age/UFO/E.T. conference circuit, we witness proclaimed experts declaring that the Alien Space Brothers are on their way here with eminent arrival to completely restructure our systems of religion and to replace the ten commandments. What does that tell you about the experts that promote this type of material? I suggest that these folks are looking for a messiah that is, someone to relieve them of the responsibilities for their own actions. This was the case of the Jews when Jesus came onto the scene. They were looking for the messiah to take them out of hard times to sever the Roman yoke. > > > There isn't any scientific evidence regarding the Walton case. > > > Lots of circumstantial evidence to strongly suggest that something > > > happenned but nothing to really indicate what it was that happenned. > > Circumstantial evidence gets people convicted of crimes in > > courts of law all of the time John. ;-) > > No argument there. But imagine this: Imagine the leaders of the AMA, > the APA and a dozen other prestigeous medical groups held a news > conference and announced that, Yes, aliens are here abducting people. You gonna have some panic'd people. > That constitutes recognition of the (alleged) problem but what good > would it do, what would happen next? After the excitement wore down, it might get some real and useful research in progress. I AM compelled to add however, that this research does not necessarily call for an abundance of mental health professionals. I don't feel professional status or occupation in these regards are as important as ethical principles. > > > That might very well be true but statements like that sail > > > right over the heads of traditional scientists <grin>. > > Then I suggest that they are not living up to the spirit of > > their calling. In true 'science' John, an open mind is called > > Although they don't get much press and even less funding there are a > number of folks out there working as you suggest. To a scientist having > an open mind means accepting the possibility that some such thing > _might_ exist, _then_ trying to prove that it does by understanding > how it works, etc. The folks working in science who have this > non-openned mind approach as you define it are actually in the minority. I understand that. I have even met a couple who privately shared with me the strange events that they had experienced not too dissimilar to my own. Perhaps what is needed is a revolution of sorts that will remove the minority from visibility and place those of true ethics in the spotlight. However, how this could be accomplished I have no idea. Somehow these in the minority should be shown for the scam artists that they are. > But I don't think this is about scientists having an open mind. I'll go > out on a limb and suggest that this is really about experiencer's > wanting much greater acceptance than they currently have... I don't know. I have somewhat disassociated myself from the emotional turmoil that was a result of my experience(s). It doesn't bother me overmuch that you can't accept outright what I recall happened to me. To you it is only information subject to question. It is not a part of your subjective experience ...I.E: Knowledge. To me however, a good deal of it is knowledge. > > Electronic monitoring. I suppose it is possible John, but at > > what cost? > > A few thousand dollars, at most. Possibly even for free _IF_ abductees > were to start filing police reports. I would be willing to do that as I AM sure others would, if assured that there would be NO ridicule from those within this profession. I feel however, that this is extremely unlikely. > > > That's why unaided human eye observations are so unreliable, > > > as are any sighting stories that result from them. > > You missed what I was suggesting, John. > > But then that is indicative of the entire problem as it stands > > anyway. > > It is a problem of awareness you see. > > That is why some will see them while others don't. > > You lost me on that one. Please try again. Some will see paranormal occurrences while some won't. There is much more to 'sight' then the physical eyes. Something does NOT have to be a part of everyone's subjective experience in order to be real. > > > If we expand our awareness into other realms all we'll do is > > > get so far away from the real world that whatever we discover will > > > be so incompatible with the real world that no one will believe us > > > and we won't have the scientific evidence necessary to convince > > > them. > > Well we seem to have a different opinion as to what constitutes > > reality. > > Its been my experience that reality does not care what our opinion of it > is <grin>! Hahahaha! Too true! But seriously, reality is composed of strata or levels John. All do not experience all of these levels at once or even during this lifetime. > > Reality is on the move. It is changing. This can be said > > anytime, but never has it had the dynamic validity as it does > > today. The traditional ways of viewing and responding are simply > > a lot less valid. That is why we witness so much insanity during > > these times John. This is due to the basic inability of some to > > expand their awareness and to keep up with the changes that are > > occurring within reality. What you state above seems to me to be > > based in fear. > > I think you've lost me again. Reality is. That is a fundamental > concept that would require an enormous amount of scientific evidence to > shake. One very basic assumption is that there is a thing called > 'reality' that we can, with much work, observe and figure out. Reality IS, yes, but it is composed of layers or levels. Energy IS and All is composed of energy. Matter and energy after all is transmutable. Energy can be described as vibrating at different frequency, that is the different components that comprise it vibrate at different rates. What I AM suggesting here is that as this planet's rate of vibrational frequency is on the rise, so it is that everything of a non-sentient nature is rising with it. Occupants of this planet that bear sentience must let go of certain qualities that serve as restriction in order to rise along with everything else. This higher frequency is disrupting the natural electrochemical action within the brains of many of those who are most resistant to this vibratory rise. These may all be metaphysical tenets to be sure, but I believe that I read a respectable scientific report somewhere that indicated that the vibratory rate of this planet was indeed on the upswing. Although not constituting absolute proof of the above, the indications are there. > On the flip side, we do _assume_ that while 'reality' changes a tiny bit > over time, and while we change a tiny bit over time, that the combined > change is not sufficient to invalidate 'reality' or our observations of > it. The dangerous assumption inherent in the basic assumption is that > we don't think our 'mind' (our consciousness) is changing much. Since > we do all of our observing and understanding with our mind it would be a > big problem if _that_ was the element that was evolving...<grin> All is in a flux of evolvement and change in my view, John. > > Again I repeat: We are never going to get any traditional > > scientific evidence as to the phenomena. > > The phenomena itself controls the information concerning itself. > > It is nonetheless quite real! > > That _is_ scary! Yup, but nonetheless REAL, John. I suspect that if we continue to stick our collective heads in the sand, pretending it isn't there ... hoping that it will go away, many are going to find themselves neck deep or more in the doodoo! > > > > Your confabulation can be undone by one trained > > > > and skilled. > > > Imposible. Once the confabulation is in there there is no way > > > to differentiate it from non-confabulation memory. > > Explain to me please why you believe this to be so? > > It is simply a matter of suggestion and a reminder of real time > > events. > > I agree that it could prove to be laborious in some cases, but > > might be worth it. > > The human mind uses all sorts of checks and balances during normal > conscious worktime to 'determine' the veracity of incoming data > (memory). Most if not all of those checks and balances are suspended or > drastically reduced during hypnotic regression. An item comes into a > person's memory stream without passing through those checks and balances > and once it is there it is recorded as if it _did_ pass through those > checks and balances. In other words, the person 'acquires' these > 'memories' and has no real reason to disbelieve them and every reason to > accept them. They are stored in the person's mind as if they were real > and once stored that way they cannot be changed (without active, > aggressive and intrusive "brainwashing"). I must constitute an anomaly, John. I remember things and for me they are extremely real, but certain of these I strongly question. Even though I disagree with nearly everything that the practitioner who regressed me espouses, he did not create any confabulation in my mind by suggestion as to where my experience was leading. I would like to lay that on his doorstep along with other things, but I honestly can't. > > > > > Oh, the other thing to do is electronically moniter > > > > > self-claimed abductees but nobody seems to want to do that. > > > > Oh? I'd volunteer. <grin> > > > Are you being abducted on a semi-routine schedule? > > Not that I know of. The nature of the phenomena in it's > > interface with me has changed John. > > This is due to a conscious degree of heightened awareness on my > > part. Having read that I can see that to some this might > > constitute an egotistical statement if viewed from one > > direction. All I AM stating to you is that I have done a number > > of inner exercises that possibly precludes their being capable > > of easily abducting me. In any event their approach is far > > different today. > > I guess that's good news. There have been encounters of sorts and attempts, but they have been nipped in the bud. I can tell you that these were of a purely paranormal nature. Most of them involved Julie as well. > One of the basic elements of the alien abduction event scenario is that > abductions routinely occur to abductees and are cross-generational. > That should make it easy to find suitable candidates for electronic > monitoring. Yes, I understand this to be true. I do not know if this applies in my case and if it did, I feel sure that it would be strongly denied. > > The etheric is an > > exact blueprint of the physical body. This is the reality behind > > an amputee for instance, insisting that he/she can still feel > > his/her missing limb. > > I've never read a good definition of what is meant by 'etheric' but now > it makes sense! Thank you! It is a 'finer' level of reality then we are normally used to operating upon on a regular basis. Some are capable of viewing what is occurring on this level as well as "normal' , physical reality. It is in fact just as physical as this level, but of 'finer' substance. Perhaps a perusal of some of the more quality occult literature is in order here. Some go a lot further by way of explanation of these matters than I. Julie suggests C.W. Leadbeater, Annie Bassett or Blavatsky. I would suggest the Lemurian Fellowship. > > Perhaps on a physical level. However, I have suggested based > > upon my experience that not all or even a majority (IMO) of > > these cases take place purely upon a physical level. In fact, I > > wonder how many do occur on a purely physical level. In any > > case, no matter what level they are occurring on, they are in > > fact occurring. When it does occur, there is usually a great > > deal of trauma associated with the occurrence. > > NO argument about the trauma. I (personal opinion) suspect that they > are not physical events at all. Electronic monitoring would likely > prove that. That doesn't mean it isn't real but it would change the > direction of abduction research. I could recite a few of the more recent episodes that would underline what you suggest above. Julie awoke in the middle of the night during one of these to see a gray coming out of the ceiling above pulling me up toward it out of my body. The more physical portion of my body still reposed flat on it's back. She made a loud noise and I vividly recall her stating that if I lay back they couldn't take me. Needless to say, I did. Now this isn't something that any instruments can capture other than the physical secondary sounds which aren't necessarily present in each occurrence or all occurrences. The above is the tail end of one of these episodes. What started the episode was Julie being awakened by a droning noise that increased in volume. She opened her eyes and began to notice that the room we were in was becoming lighter and lighter. She could 'feel' who ever was causing this become cognizant of the fact that she (Julie) was aware of what was going on. At that point, the room began to grow dimmer. Julie would close her eyes to experience the same thing a little later on. She stated to me the next day that she found the event to be extremely interesting. Finally she went totally back to sleep only to be awakened with the view of me being pulled upward. No such activity has occurred since we have been here in the four corners area. > > > Well, sure something is going on. The point is to prove that > > > it is something _not_ already known to and described by science and > > > reality. > > I think that this is already self evident John. > > The problem as I see it, is what can be done about it? > > You were wearing your experiencer hat when you wrote that. Put on your > ordinary-person hat for a moment. Suppose, after electronic monitoring > of a few hundred self-claimed abductees over a 12 to 18-month period not > a single _physical_ event was recorded but dozens and dozens of > abductions were remembered. Suppose then that a few folks developed > some form of personal mental training, and with proper testing, > determined that this reduced the number of abductions. I follow you. However, this training that I alluded to isn't necessarily mental, but spiritual. > Suppose this was done by _real_ mainstream scientists and MHPs. Even > then do you think the taxpayers of this country would stand still for > nationwide taxpayer-funded abductee version of a flu-shot??? Again, I follow you. However, not many medical people in my experience would be qualified to provide this training much less suggest where to obtain it. I also wish to point out that those who are qualified to provide this training would accept very little recompense for it. It would also be extremely difficult if not impossible to provide this type of training in a classroom type setting. But then again, I might be serving to limit things. :-) It occurs however that given the trauma that those experiencing these phenomena experience, I imagine that they would be quite willing to place a high value upon anything that would alleviate their suffering. I suppose that were I determined to be qualified to render this service, I would probably figure that a fee would be determined by the amount of one's income or monetary worth. It could be set up on a donation basis, but let's face it the folks that rendered the service probably wouldn't even be able to pay for their gas. <grin> > > > Yes, well, sort of <grin>. > > Well then. What I see is needed is for a melding of sorts to > > occur between the more traditional sciences and Parapsychology. > > This might serve to move in the proper direction toward solving > > these problems. > > You and I won't live long enough to see that. We know that dowsing is a > real, objective and physical phenomenon but we really don't have a good > model for how it works. We know that magnetic fields are somehow > involved in functinal dowsing but we don't really know how. We also > know that magnetic fields are involved in a number of mind-reality > phenomena, some of which are observational. That's (so far as I know) > about the sum total of what we can safely say we know to date. (Except > that magnetic fields, like gravitational fields, don't exist on their > own but are the result of something else.) O.K. I'll tell you that I strongly feel that the majority of mankind had better see it John. This phenomena is occurring to more and more people all of the time. We are entering a new paradigm and I feel that mankind's well being as a whole may depend upon this. There are those of mankind however that will feel no impact of these occurrences. > The challenge is to stop pretending, and to stop allowing others to > pretend, that we or they are MHPs. Suspend our odd desire to know > what these experinces are long enough to allow experiencers the proper > therapy they (may) need. I do not feel that these phenomena fall into an MHP realm John. It is NOT a mental phenomena. Some of the cases may occur at least partially on a physical (third dimensional) level, but other aspects of each case seem to occur on a higher level of reality. Our explanation of the etheric seemed to make some sense to you. If this is in fact a level of reality in support of the physical as I have tried to indicate, and most of the occurrences do take place upon this and/or the astral or auric, then perhaps you can extrapolate the possible ramifications upon the physical. I AM suggesting that perhaps mankind is being undermined here. Kindest Regards, Clark Hathaway Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: MJ-12 Cutler Memo: interesting find... From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 20:03:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:19:30 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 Cutler Memo: interesting find... UFO UpDates - Toronto posted: > From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 01:24:06 -0400 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 Cutler Memo: interesting find... > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > For Scott Hale re RG 341. Thanks for the suggestion. > My point is that so far as I know there are no finders aids for the various > entries (512 of them) that are listed in the inventory of RG 341. Blue Book > files are elsewhere. I have seen no definitive evidence of UFO documents > being in the almost 9800 cubic feet of this RG. The Cutler Twining memo was > found in a box having nothing to do with UFOs and was almost certainly planted > there , most likely by one of the many reviewers working for months on > classification review of Entry 267. To the best of my knowledge there is no > listing of documents in any of the Entries in RG 341 so don't expect much > from the internet. One must review the boxes. Most of the boxes I asked for > (90%) could not be brought to me. > Stan Friedman Thanks! Scott
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:39:32 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:29:24 -0500 Subject: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 UFO UpDates - Toronto posted: > For those following Hale-Bopp, this may be of interest. > Sunday evening, 8 Dec. 1996, journalist Linda Howe played a recorded interview > with two astronomers. > The first was Dr. Martha Hanner (sp?) PhD, who is a Senior research scientist > and comet specialist with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, CA. Dr. > Hanner's speciality seems to be infrared astronomy. She indicates that if > there were present an Earth-sized object within the same portion of the sky > as comet Hale-Bopp, it certainly would have shown up on her infrared > telescope. It has not. Further, according to Dr. Hanner, any such object > Howe's second interview was with Dr. Karen Meech (sp?), a professor at the > Institute of Astronomy at the University of Hawaii, in Honolulu. Dr. Meech > has > been observing Hale-Bopp in the visible range, as recently as November 11th. > resolution sixteen timnes that of conventional CCD-equipped telescopes. Meech > tells us she too should have been able to easily see the object had it been > the superior resolution of the fancy camera. She says, "There's clearly > nothing in there but stars and the comet." WAIT A MINUTE! That's what *I* and many, many others have been telling readers of this list for *weeks* now! And all we've been getting is flames! Linda Howe and Art Bell have been promoting the mystery companion all this time and finally got some astronomers to say what everyone else has been saying all along, and suddenly, Howe and Bell are somehow vindicated? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. This is what they should have done *first*, before hyping the story. Nice try, though. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:35:14 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:30:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 > From: Chris Terraneau <chris.terraneau%f746.n202.z1@xbn.shore.net> > > For those following Hale-Bopp, this may be of interest. > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [snip] > There you have the establishment astronomers' statement on this issue. And that is exactly _all_ it was, remembering the broad assumptions _they_ made with regard to an _expected_ world view: that physics is understood, and there are no surprises left in a universe we cannot even see the end of . . .human arrogance can be more stupefying than its ignorance. Moreover, it matters not so much whether Hale-Bopp even _has_ a companion -- it is our corrosive reaction to its mere *suggestion* that really chaps _my_ ass. Lehmberg@snowhill.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Dec 96 11:36:23 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:28:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance <<From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 04:30:54 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance>> To Rebecca, <<Theresa, obviously you do not believe that is a human on that table, and I think you don't believe it is a dummy (but I'm not sure of that). Just what do you think it is?>> I think I answered most everything else in previous message. I think it's a special effects creation, filmed on reel film, and shot and/or processed in 1987. What I don't know is who was involved. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 17:44:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:20:59 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > From: KRandle993@aol.com > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:34:54 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > In a message dated 96-12-09 12:25:08 EST, Stan Friedman wrote: > << For Ed Stewart, Kevin Ran, Glenn Campbell: > <Until we have access to the classified files, > <we cannot know the history of Area 51. Why is > <that so hard to understand? We are not talking > <about storage of apples and oranges, but of > <crashed saucer wreckage and alien bodies. The > <government has not admitted having either. > <Unclassified literature doesn't tell us about > <Compartmented information. > But we do have access to the public records which show no evidence of any > secret facility in that area in 1954. There are photographs of people at the > site as shown in magazines and no evidence offered that people couldn't, and > didn't roam the area in 1954. The evidence shows that the classification and > restrictions to access to the area began AFTER 1954. > The record seems clear on this point. There was no secret, top secret, > facility located there in 1954. The record shows construction began after > 1954. Can you offer any sort of credible evidence that such is not the case? > Isn't it up to you to now prove that we are wrong rather than suggest a > secret facility there? > > < Proclamations are not the same as evidence. > Then stop doing it. > KRandle Kevin, Couldn't the facility be located somewhere in the Papoose range? To my knowlege (I have 800+ pages of Area 51 info) not many people were in that area then, or now. Is it possible that the supposed facility was underground? Yet again, was the manual updated since it's initial conception? Just some thoughts. Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Dec 96 11:25:03 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:27:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance <<Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:32:12 -0500 From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance References: <2.2.32.19961211070336.00b5ad20@globalserve.net>>> To John Powell, <<That's an incredibly silly premise. Dating the film merely dates the film, nothing more. In no way does it prove ownership. Santilli has already claimed ownersip and has the copyright, and he's _not_ a US citizen. If the US gov't wanted the film they'd have two options:>> Silly or not, it seems to have worked. If you saw my message to James Easton, I mention the videos of the footage been or being sold by other vendors on that premise even without the US Govt. claiming it. You are correct, dating the film does nothing else. It does not "authenticate" the footage. If the footage was shot in 1987 we still don't know who was involved in making it. Not all people are interested in finding out who did it. I just happen to be one that is. That person that is claiming to be the cameraman is involved now. Whether he is actually the cameraman that shot the footage or not, he is still involved. I think the fact that there is an actual person claiming this, besides Santilli is significant. I don't think Santilli could have done this whole thing by himself, and now there is more proof that he didn't. <<Sorry, but this is just a convenient dodge to allow Santilli to continue to market his hoax.>> And he should continue. Particularly if he is able to market it even though people think its a fake! No one is being forced to look at the footage or to purchase it so what harm is being done? If the networks paid good money and got good ratings they are not likely to complain. Few others spent any money on it. Any money that went to Santilli, that is. It's a good hoax, well thought out, well prepared, and not so cheaply done, not your usual 'saucer dangling from a string'. <<If your alleged cameraman turns out to be a cameraman from the 40s that's wonderful but it tells us nothing about the Santilli footage. There would also still be _no_ connection between the cameraman and the Santilli footage. We would _still_ need to date the film to know it is from that era.>> Dating alone will prove nothing other than that deformed human bodies or special effects existed in whatever year it turns out to be. There is nothing in the footage to show that the military or any government agency was involved. The person claiming to be cameraman can tell us who was involved and what is on the table. So yes, I think more information can be gained from the "cameraman" than from dating the film. At least the information that I am interested in. I know that all people aren't interested in knowing the who and the what of it, and I wouldn't expect them to. <<Logic would tell us that the quickest and easiest choice for us is the one that requires the least time and work. The lowest time/work option for Ray is to get the film dated. The lowest time/work option for us is to get the film dated.>> The time and work doesn't bother me. It's a hobby. <<Now, finally, please state why you think _any other_ choice makes more sense, and please do so by refuting the simple logic stated above.>> I would chose the one that would give me the the most answers. Dating the film would only answer one question. Many people have stated that would be enough for them. But I want to know more. Regards, Theresa Carlson Search for other documents from or mentioning: 70571.1735 | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 'Strange Universe Implant Removal Hatchet Job!'? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:32:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:32:23 -0500 Subject: 'Strange Universe Implant Removal Hatchet Job!'? www.endoftheline.com Strange Universe Implant Removal Hatchet Job! By Don Robertson Strange Universe: WRONG! My friend, Roger Leir, appeared on the UPN television show Strange Universe on November 11, 1996. He was looking forward to the interview, which appeared on Channel 13 in the Los Angeles area. "First of all they made overtures to Derrel and I, to come on the show.," Dr. Roger Leir told me on the phone, the day after the show aired in our area. "They asked us to bring various material with us on the implants we removed this year, and last, from five people who had been abducted by aliens. The people from Strange Universe assured us they would discuss the material we brought with us without bias, exactly as we portrayed it to be, to them. We supplied them with documentation, which they photographed , x-ray evidence, which they photographed, and interviews with Derrel and myself." "Another incentive to do the show for free, was their assurance that we could freely announce the formation of 'FIRST'; the Fund for Interactive Research and Space Technology, in hopes of deriving some funding for the organization. Strange Universe agreed to this and said they would put it on the air. They also said Derrel and I would be the only ones appearing on this segment of the program." "When the airing occurred, last night, we were absolutely shocked! Strange Universe opened the show with Whitley Streiber, talking about an implant he thinks is in his ear. We don't really have any relationship with Whitley Streiber, and were surprised that it was part of this segment, whatsoever." "The next thing they did was to misstate the facts that we had provided them. They called us both, doctors, after being told at least ten times that Derrel was not a doctor, and then didn't have his occupation right; having told them it was hypno-anethsthesiology. They stated some other perverted form of that title." "They originally taped me standing in front of an x-ray view box pointing out the objects in both the feet, and the hand case.," said Leir. "When the show aired, they entirely left out anything to do with the objects in the feet, instead showing me explaining the hand case, casting the aspersion that I did the hand surgery, which is untrue. I removed the objects from the feet. I am a Podiatrist." "In our preshow agreement they said nothing at all to us about having a debunker, or skeptic on the segment, either.," Roger Leir continued. "The aired show featured a Dr. Mandel, who was an obstetrician, that had never seen the scientific data; had never discussed it with us, nor taken time for research. He made statements to the fact that, 'the membrane, for example, that was formed around the objects, can be formed around any foreign object in the human body, laying down fibrin and tissue.' In his words, 'Their research is flawed.' That's the way the show ended!," Roger concluded. One has to truly question the integrity of a public television show that not only blatantly violates the pretaping agreements between Leir and Sims, and Strange Universe. But the fact that they obviously omitted crucial pictures and data makes me have to wonder who is really pulling the strings and issuing orders at Strange Universe, and indeed, at UPN. It only leads to more credence that the Global Elite control the major media. I know Dr. Roger Leir and Derrel Sims. They are both extremely dedicated, straightforward men who have amassed a scientific body of evidence on alleged implants taken from abduction experiences. The objects have been analyzed by three different laboratories The ultimate truth lies in that body of evidence. Although some analyses on the alleged alien implants were recently announced by New Mexico Tech., two more tests were ordered. These tests have been delayed due to lack of funding. The final results, from all of the labs, can't be released until these last two tests are complete. This is an extremely important body of work. I urge you to help us complete this research! (Editor's note: Dr. Leir and Derrel Sims have assembled an amazing, history-making video showing the actual surgical removal of the first three implants from two individuals. The video has a wealth of related material and is available for $28.50 from FIRST, address below) If you would like to help fund the last two tests and bring forth all the crucial final results, you may send donations to: Foundation for Interactive Research and Space Technology 1155 Thousand Oaks Blvd. Thousand Oaks, Ca. 91362 Editor's note: If you believe you may have an implant and would like professional counselling at no cost, you may phone Derrel Sims at: 713-446-3005 and leave a message. There is no one with more knowledge in the field of implants and abduction research than Derrel.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:38:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:31:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance In a message dated 96-12-11 02:10:05 EST, To Stan Friedman, Theresa writes: > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance [...] > <<, having an officer of the court review all the documents about the > cameraman > that Ray said existed, and then meet with the cameraman and then verify with > the > Personnel > records center in St. Louis and then issue a statement that all is well > without > revealing the name and location ofnteh cmaerman would go a very long way > wouldn't it??>> [...] > There is someone claiming to be the cameraman, who's face has been seen > on > video, and a man claiming to be the cameraman's son, who's face was also > seen. Yes, it has been reported by Kiviat on the Leeza show that this interview exists. Has he seen it yet? Bob Shell has seen it. Michael Hesemann has seen it. I'm not sure who else has seen it but those two are hardly disinterested parties. They did offer somewhat differing accounts of the interview, didn't they? > Whether these men are actors or are who they say they are, they exist now > beyond > just Santilli's say so. And they have to be considered into the equation. I don't know if they exist beyond Santilli's say so. The people I refer to above have at times shown a certain disrespect for objectivity. > We > can no longer claim that someone claiming to be the cameraman that shot this > footage doesn't exist. A cameraman has always existed. > In an online interview last night, Robert Kiviat said that, if it were up > to > him, he would be happy to show the video of the cameraman interview to > McGovern, > or anyone else that thinks that they could identify him. But he has to have > Santilli's and the cameraman's permission to do this. Santilli of course, > wants > money. His motives haven't changed. The cameraman would have to come forward > in > order to give his permission and if he were to do that, we wouldn't need > McGovern, because someone would recognize him. But McGovern could be an important verifier of facts. The offer Lt. Col. McGovern extended was genuine. Having said that, Stan's suggestion was excellent also. I'm sure it is an offer that Santilli has heard before. Wonder why he won't take anyone up on the offer. What are the chances that we will ever see the alleged cameraman's face and/or the face of his son? Would Santilli sell the interview for money _without_ the cameraman's approval? How much money would it take? (I'm planning on the winning the lottery soon <g>) > I think authenticating the cameraman is far more important than dating > the > film. Yes. That is important. But dating the film is very necessary and important also. What are the odds that either will happen? I saw Slim at the travel agent's earlier this evening. <g> Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Strange Universe From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:42:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:42:29 -0500 Subject: Strange Universe ebk __________________________________________ Date: Tue, 04 Sep 1956 17:55:44 +0000 From: Steve Nalepa <s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Strange Universe References: <2.2.32.19961211070733.00b63dfc@globalserve.net> Hello all, I was wondering if anyone had any information regarding Mike Marcum of St. Joseph, MO. He was on Art Bell's show last year and he announced that he was inventing a time machine using electrical transformers and 168 electromagnets. In late September, Marcum vanished and the St. Joseph News-Press chillingly reported that he'd been evicted from his apartment, allegedly for transporting a cat "a block away." Marcum apparently resurfaced last month, taking umbrage with "the cat deal-it just ain't true." As for his gizmo, he plans to test it as soon as he solves the sticky problem of controlling when and where it sends him. Does anyone have any additional information on Mr. Marcum and his time machine? Thanks in advance, Steve Search for other documents from or mentioning: s.nalepa |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:00:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:43:22 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 05:53:56 -0500 > John the "problem" is, that I'm a human being, a person, not an "object" in > any sense of the word. You like the term "object" because it depersonalizes > us and that helps you to put a little more distance, (another brick in the > wall) that protects you from your fear of us, and what we are reporting. > It's a means to sanitize and pidgeon hole us in a way that fits into your > limited world view. I'm not going to sit still while you try to neatly tuck > me into your little "box" and put me "out in the middle of an empty parking > lot" (at a safe distance) Did I quote you correctly? See John, a person > talks back, has oppinions and a validity that an object does not. John V., pardon me for jumping in here, but I would like to make an observation. I can't be sure that I know what John Powell means, but this is way I am interpretting what he is saying. Yes, we know abductees are human with difficult challenges and that part of the human needs to be taken care of. But if we are ever going to learn *WHAT* is really happening -- someone needs to be studying the abuctee in an objective manner, scientifically ALSO. If you read the Abduction Code of Ethics this is one of the first paragraphs: "For example, because the abduction experience is nearly always reported as disturbing or traumatic (at least initially), and because the cause(s) of the experience are not fully understood investigation and treatment often interact. Abduction experiencers may approach investigators not only to provide or obtain information, but also for help in coping with the experience. Similarly, MHPs may be asked not only for help in coping, but for explanations and interpretations of the phenomenon. When the goals of the experiencer are in conflict with the goals or expertise of the investigator or MHP, ethical problems arise." There is a big difference between investigation and treatment. It is very difficult for one person to do both things, and it is even difficult for investigation and treatment to go together. There are many conflicts. This is one of at least 5 premises of the code: 1. This Code takes the position that not only the experiencer, but also science and clinical practice, are best served when the rights and welfare of the abduction experiencer are considered paramount. Now, let me add the definitions from the code: 2.2. Investigator An investigator is someone whose objective is the collection, analysis, and interpretation of data pertaining to an abduction experience. 2.3. Mental Health Professional (MHP). A mental health professional (MHP) is someone whose objective is the diagnosis of, and treatment (therapy or counseling) for, disorders of emotion, cognition, behavior, and adjustment associated with an abduction experience. A MHP has licensing or certification reflecting training appropriate for providing mental health services. = I assume John Powell is looking at this from an "investigator's" point of view. Don't you think that an "investigator" is an important part of the process if we are ever going to get to the bottom of what is occuring? Can you see how treatment and investigation are two different things? Can you see how the two might not really work well together? I don't think that ANYONE is advocating treating abductees as objects while ignoring the human side. I could be wrong but I don't think I am. An investigator wants facts. And to get facts, they have to be objective and not let emotions obscure what they are looking for. I'm sorry to be rehashing the code again... but it is important, in my opinion to know that studying abductions is not just about the abductee. As an abductee, do you think you could be a nonbiased, unemotional investigator? Please read The Code again. And try to read the followup to in the new Journal of UFO Studies. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:38:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:41:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance In a message dated 96-12-11 02:10:05 EST, To Stan Friedman, Theresa writes: > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance [...] > <<, having an officer of the court review all the documents about the > cameraman > that Ray said existed, and then meet with the cameraman and then verify with > the > Personnel > records center in St. Louis and then issue a statement that all is well > without > revealing the name and location ofnteh cmaerman would go a very long way > wouldn't it??>> [...] > There is someone claiming to be the cameraman, who's face has been seen > on > video, and a man claiming to be the cameraman's son, who's face was also > seen. Yes, it has been reported by Kiviat on the Leeza show that this interview exists. Has he seen it yet? Bob Shell has seen it. Michael Hesemann has seen it. I'm not sure who else has seen it but those two are hardly disinterested parties. They did offer somewhat differing accounts of the interview, didn't they? > Whether these men are actors or are who they say they are, they exist now > beyond > just Santilli's say so. And they have to be considered into the equation. I don't know if they exist beyond Santilli's say so. The people I refer to above have at times shown a certain disrespect for objectivity. > We > can no longer claim that someone claiming to be the cameraman that shot this > footage doesn't exist. A cameraman has always existed. > In an online interview last night, Robert Kiviat said that, if it were up > to > him, he would be happy to show the video of the cameraman interview to > McGovern, > or anyone else that thinks that they could identify him. But he has to have > Santilli's and the cameraman's permission to do this. Santilli of course, > wants > money. His motives haven't changed. The cameraman would have to come forward > in > order to give his permission and if he were to do that, we wouldn't need > McGovern, because someone would recognize him. But McGovern could be an important verifier of facts. The offer Lt. Col. McGovern extended was genuine. Having said that, Stan's suggestion was excellent also. I'm sure it is an offer that Santilli has heard before. Wonder why he won't take anyone up on the offer. What are the chances that we will ever see the alleged cameraman's face and/or the face of his son? Would Santilli sell the interview for money _without_ the cameraman's approval? How much money would it take? (I'm planning on the winning the lottery soon <g>) > I think authenticating the cameraman is far more important than dating > the > film. Yes. That is important. But dating the film is very necessary and important also. What are the odds that either will happen? I saw Slim at the travel agent's earlier this evening. <g> Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 02:52:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:23:18 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 11:52 PM > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:53:45 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > References: <2.2.32.19961210064603.00beb780@globalserve.net> > > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > > With all due respect to John Powell (and I do have a bit of it), > > I just don't see him accepting any of this unless it happens to > > him personally. Even at that, he suspect that he would still > > attempt to deny it. <grin> > Hahahaha!!! There is some truth to that...<grin> Yup! I pegged that'un right! <wide grin> > This is a little difficult to articulate. In short, I really don't want > to "accept" any of it, I don't want to know any of it - not in any sort > of personal sense. You are to be commended for your honesty John. I personally Thank You. > What I _really_ want is to know these things in a completely > _impersonal_ sense. I'd like there to be a collection of data > completely separated from any human being. Put that collection of data > in a box, put the box in the middle of a giant empty parking lot and > then any person who approaches that data can read it (do the > experiments, whatever) and walk away with _precisely_ the same > understanding (knowledge) as any other person. I understand believe me. However and unfortunately, the above DOES necessarily involve humans. It involves people who have undergone a set of serious traumatic shocks to their psyche. These folks seem to have an extremely difficult time disassociating themselves from the tremendous emotional attachment to their experience. That the reported circumstances of these phenomena is fantastic and all but unbelievable is true, but due to the overwhelming numbers it is clear that something exceedingly strange is and has been occurring. > That's the only way we'll know that we got it right. Perhaps, but in any event it IS TIME NOW that an honest and totally objective study be made of what is occurring. Our collective future just may depend upon it. > And that is the filter through which I view every single bit of > ufological and paranormal data. The odd thing is that my approach > causes some skeptics to consider me a believer and it causes some > believers to consider me a skeptic. Go figure...<grin> Honesty is an all too rare commodity during these times. ;-) > > I have included a JPEG of the piece with this message. > Great picture! It IS for sale! <grin> Just think of what a conversation piece it would make hanging in your entryway! <wide evil grin> Kindest Regards, Clark Hathaway Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Hesemann? From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:03:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:45:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Hesemann? > From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Hesemann > Does anyone have the email adress to Michael Hesemann? 100660.3672@compuserve.com is one that I have. Rebecca Search for other documents from or mentioning: houstonsky | west |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 02:32:03 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:22:31 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 11:51 PM > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:40:45 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > References: <2.2.32.19961210073724.00c3b12c@globalserve.net> > > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' In which Steven (John Powell) stated: > I've edited your response down to some essentials... > > Have YOU ever been party to an abortion. Do you find my question > > offensive? Or maybe invasive of a persons right to privacy? Asking > > people if they've had abortions is tasteless. [snip] > > And using Whitley and his son as an example is unexcusable and just > > downright rude. I have kids Dennis, do you? Never question a mans > I think we have here the essence of the abductee-as-object versus the > abductee-as-subject problem. > We _don't_ know that so-called alien abductions are real, or have ever > actually happenned. That statement is necessarily based on the current For Steven (John) Powell as well as John Velez: As you know, I believe that in August of 1990, I underwent an extremely strange experience. In order to sort out what I was undergoing (inexplicable terror), I sought the help offered. The outcome of that subsequent experience (hypno-regression) labeled me in current terminology an abductee or experiencer. As an abductee (experiencer) I feel that in order to progress in this line of research, perhaps a new attitude of Objectivity in this line of research is called for. Up to this date I have not seen ANY such objectivity from ANY researcher in this line of inquiry. All of the so-called researchers into this fascinating problem are biased one way or another. This can also be stated somewhat of those who are in constant debate over this issue. I find this unfortunate as well as appalling. Now, I will repeat that I went through at least one extremely strange experience. I quite possibly have gone through additional similar experiences as well, I have good reason to suspect that this is so. I also have reason to suspect that various episodes that came forth during my hypno-regression are/were not real, but a cover for something else. Mainly, my reasons are based upon deep intuition. I feel very strongly based upon my own experience(s) that John Velez truly believes that he has experienced something basically similar to mine. Having read "Communion" and "Transformation", it is clear to me that something similar has happened to Whitley as well. That there are many, many others that I do not know of can also be stated. Having read both of these gentlemen's words within this forum, I do not for a second believe that they are insane or subject to periodic episodes of delusion or hallucination. I feel that this type of suggestion is just another way of sticking one's head in the sand and attempting to ignore the problem ... and, make no mistake about it, we do have a problem. It is VERY REAL whatever is behind it. It is about time that a VERY REAL OBJECTIVE STUDY be made of it without all of the demeaning rhetoric and depersonalization. I do not know if my experience is truly indicative of a genuine encounter with what could be best described as an Alien from another world. My memories would seem to indicate this, but again I have my reservations. My metaphysical studies suggest that in fact the experience involves something quite different and in most respects even more strange than the concept of beings from across the galaxy or even another dimensional existence. My post hypnotic experiences and Julie's as well, would seem to reflect some of the implied characteristics of the denizens described in the referred to works. Throughout history at various times certain of these beings have made an appearance only to disappear back into the woodwork. They are capable of taking on diverse appearance as suits their desire. In past history, they are what gave rise to the legends of demons and devils. If one looks at the problem in an objective way, it is quickly ascertained that in an overwhelming amount of these cases, there is a high incidence of paranormal phenomena. I believe this fact to be extremely significant. Yet except for the few, I feel that this nearly universal fact has been all but ignored. I have an intuitive feeling that this could be exceedingly dangerous. Just as it is dangerous to presuppose that these are beings come from across the galaxy on a mission of benevolent brotherhood when the majority of the possible evidence would seem to indicate otherwise. I believe strongly that nothing in this reality happens without reason. I do not for a second believe that we are a fluke, a mistake or even an accident. I believe and feel to the core of my being that what is occurring is occurring for a reason. Likewise, I feel that now as never before, an objective and honest study of this phenomena is called for. Our future may just depend upon it. Kindest Regards, Clark Hathaway Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Re: Philip Mantle: 'Buggered Off'? From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 19:50:41 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:47:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: Philip Mantle: 'Buggered Off'? >wufoc wrote: > >Hi all. > >Does anyone have the email adress to Michael Hesemann? > >Kind regards, Jorgen / WUFOC > UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > ROFLM! > ebk Uhh, what??? Jorgen / WUFOC ________________________________ Jorgen, ROFLM = Rolls On Floor Laughing Madly. Actually, not _that_ obscure..... plus your message requesting Hesemann's address showed up in my InBox immediately after the 'bounce' message from Mantel's server. Put that together with my odd sense of humour, getting up early to feed the List, feeling pressure about a complex day on a 'Movie of The Week' set and you have an 'UpDates Moment'. The implication was _not_ a comparison 'tween yourself and Philip Mantle or even Steve Nalepa. I thought it was hugely amusing - I _LOVE_ synchronicity. [Shut Up Mr. Jung!] Damn..... explaining humour is a strain! <G> ebk [Rebecca's message before this one also came in here immediately before yours - Cue Rod & Twilight Zone theme]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 03:48:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:24:04 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Wednesday, December 11, 1996 6:46 AM > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 05:53:56 -0500 > >Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:40:45 -0500 > >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > >References: <2.2.32.19961210073724.00c3b12c@globalserve.net> > Response to John Powell, > John wrote, > > >I think we have here the essence of the abductee-as-object versus the > >abductee-as-subject problem. > > John the "problem" is, that I'm a human being, a person, not an "object" in > any sense of the word. You like the term "object" because it depersonalizes > us and that helps you to put a little more distance, (another brick in the > wall) that protects you from your fear of us, and what we are reporting. John (Velez): Please read my reply to John Powell including yourself pertaining to John's statement above. I understand your feelings as perhaps only another who has traveled through similar experiences can. At the same time however, I also understand where John (Powell) is coming from. The problem as I see it, is that up to date, there has been absolutely zilch real objective and honest research into whatever the hell is happening. That there is something happening that is extremely strange is undeniable. No one would like to have this problem see the light of day more than myself. I strongly feel that all paranormal events attendant to nearly every experience must be taken into the equation. I feel strongly that researchers MUST take into account that the subjects of these occurrences ARE human and as such do have emotions that have repeatedly in some cases received a tremendous amount of shock. I also feel just as strongly that those experiencers that would take a part in these researches strive to disassociate themselves from the emotional attachment to their experiences that they have. Trust me, it is a tough request, but somewhat doable. Impassioned rhetoric from either side of the equation as has occurred countless times in the past is no longer called for in my opinion. Sincere Kindest Regards, Clark Hathaway Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | jvif |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Cracked Pots? From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:17:13 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:48:15 -0500 Subject: Cracked Pots? From: ns@laban.astro.uu.se (Nils) Organization: Uppsala University Methods of Dealing With Crackpots: ================================= 1) Ignore them. 2) Sympathize. "I once believed that the sun orbited the Earth, but the Big Bad Scientific Establishment crushed me" 3) Suggest alternate venues. "I don't know enough to criticize, but you might want to talk to my good friend, who you can reach at someone@unknown.edu, who'd just _love_ to hear about your ideas..." (Note that "someone@unknown.edu" should NOT be the address of someone you want to remain friends with.) 4) Plead insanity. "No, no, no, that's all wrong. The sun is moved by Smurfs. You can't see them, because they're blue, and blend into the sky,..." 5) Send them elsewhere. "I hear Congress is looking for projects that defy all known science; they'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say." 6) Dazzle them. "Oh, I see, you've resurrected the Mitscherlich-Obermenschen-Mayer theory. You know, there was a very interesting article in Scientific Bulgarian, sometime during the 1950s, or was it the 1960s, about the very same thing. If I remember, though, they had to take into account the Terching-Quidley effect, which you've neglected. You might want to read it; they come to the same conclusions you do..."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Philip Mantle: 'Buggered Off'? From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:13:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:46:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Philip Mantle: 'Buggered Off'? > Subj: UFO UpDate: Re: Philip Mantle: 'Buggered Off'? > Date: 96-12-11 08:44:27 EST > From: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Rebecca Schatte posted: [...] > >> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > >> ... while talking to maelstrom.dial.pipex.net.: > >> >>> RCPT To:<el51@dial.pipex.com> > >> <<< 553 <el51@dial.pipex.com>... No such user:el51 > >> 550 <el51@dial.pipex.com>... User unknown > > >Gosh, and just when I have tracked down all those people he has been > looking > >for! <g> > Hmmmm..... [stroking beard] how frustratin'! > I wonder whom else could could make use of > all that information? You devil, you! > > >Does anyone have the email adress to Michael Hesemann? > > >Kind regards, Jorgen / WUFOC > > ROFLM! > > ebk EBK, you laugh all you want to. But I will make this observation. Jorgen has provided information to this list. He was a contributor. Mantle appeared to want everyone to contribute to him without sharing what he had learned. I can only assume that about Mantle because I have yet to see the fruits of his so-called research. I think I know what Jorgen is going after. And if he gets it, I know he will share it with the list. Now, get up off that floor and send me some more messages!<g> Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 Just in time for Xmas... From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:23:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 03:24:49 -0500 Subject: Just in time for Xmas... From: CodeUFO@aol.com Subject: ALIEN PIN-UP GIRL CALENDARS update! (First of all, I sincerely appologize if you have received this message twice.) Now, ON TO THE GOODIES! World's First ALIEN PIN-UP GIRL CALENDARS! Full Cosmic Color 8-1/2" by 11" Laminated and magnetic backed! Also suitable for hanging! Each calendar features a different ALIEN PIN-UP GIRL! *Randessa *Goldie *Misty Bluestar * Graycie And more to come! COLLECT THEM ALL! MAKES A GREAT NOVELTY GIFT FOR FRIENDS! ONLY $5.00 each! + $2.00 to cover shipping. (Outside U.S.A. add $3.50 to cover shipping) Wanna Peek? Email me at CodeUFO@aol.com and I'll email you the JPEGs! ********************************** FREE! FREE! FREE! FREE: Order any ONE or ALL of the Alien Pin-Up Calendars now and receive FREE a handsome, laminated membership card to the GRAYBOY Club! This classy Official Membership Card features our very debonair GRAYBOY logo and is good at any one of our 6 billion locations throughout the known universe! No sophisticated gentleman of the 90's should be without one! (Ladies, you probably know a sophisticated gentleman who would want one of these!) Cash, check or money order to: GARY TENUTA 1022 W. CASINO RD., #B-207 EVERETT, WA 98204 -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 12 HotFlash Sighting Report (fwd) From: <awyn@cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:17:46 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:49:00 -0500 Subject: HotFlash Sighting Report (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:32:00 -0800 From: Randy Warneke <rwarneke@boris.dataworks.com> To: <awyn@kalypso.cybercom.net> Subject: HotFlash Sighting Report ********************************HOT News Flash************************************ (Unidentified Flying Objects Investigation Agency. International) You are receiving this UFOIA HOT FLASH because you have interest in UFO phenomenon. If you have not become a member of UFOIA send E-mail request to UFOIA@aol.com . Or go to our Web page on the net and fill out the on-line form : UFOIA Internationals Web Page http://www.imagic.be/~mbruyninckx/ This Web page is run by the Director of Operations for Belgium. UFOIA is a UFO investigating agency that receives and investigates current UFO reports through its Hot Line, the Internet and e-mail from around the world. UFOIA hopes to serve the public with current UFO sightings, topics, views, dates and times of upcoming meetings and events, and listings of UFO related groups. ************************************************************************** From: Brian Adams, SIT# 2405, SW Missouri Date: Dec. 9, 1996 Time: 18:00 to 20:00 CST Weather: Clear, windy, low 50's deg. F. Location: SW Springfield, Missouri On Monday, December 9th after arriving home from work I noticed a large amount of what I assumed were aircraft lights in the sky to the south and east of my home. The skies were perfectly clear and this made observing ideal. I went on my deck in the backyard to view the objects with 7x35 binoculars (by the way I want more powerful binoculars Santa). To my astonishment the objects were a mix of either commercial or military jets among three or four very large oval lighted objects. I suspecct that these oval objects were much higher than the jet aircraft because they were so usually large. I would estimate at least three times larger in a jet wingspan for the diameter of these oval objects. You could easily tell the differences between the fixed-winged a/c compared to the oval objects because basically from the way the strobed lights were seen and the way they were moving. First, the oval shaped objects were seen by the way their lights were detected seen in the binoculars only. Otherwise, you would just assume that they were jets. Using the binoculars these oval UFOs had very small but brighter strobing lights about its circular perimeter. The colors were white, red and blue. They would be bunched up closely on one edge then almost randomly jump to another edge. Because it looked so unusual and the dimensions of this object was huge, you knew it wasn't a jet. Secondly, the way they moved. Very slowly. Almost like it was hovering then deciding to move about to avoid detection by the jets approaching in their vicinity. When this happened, these UFOs would seem to just vanish or turn off their lights. Then you would notice them again after the jets would move further away. These were the same UFOs my family and I saw on February, 1995 when coming back from St Louis. First, I thought that they were the B-2 Stealth Bombers training mission but I checked yesterday with the Springfield-Branson Regional Airport Control Tower FAA office and no B-2's were in the vicinity on Monday evening. Note - the B-2's are based in Whitemann AFB in Missouri near Sedalia, Missouri. Also this is the home of the 509th Bomber squadron, remember Roswell AFB? I was excited at this point and I attempted to call friends in our local UFO investigator group, but I got someone who lived due east of me 6 miles away. He checked this out from his backyard and also watched the lights. About 18:15 hours, my thirteen year old son pointed out a very bright white object moving just about over the location of these UFOs moving slowly to the north. I assumed that it was a satellite, but it had to be the brightest satellite I have ever seen before! It even moved slower than a "normal" satellite and I haven't ever seen one move over that area of the sky before either. My wife was getting disturbed with me because I had to leave soon to take my daughter to her basketball game and I had to coach her team too! I remained outside running in and out talking to the friend on the phone. At about 19:00 hours, I then saw a very bright orange ball of light due east just above the horizon about 5 degrees up. I was watching it through the binoculars when it suddenly vanished. If it was 10 miles out then it would be in an area where sightings have occurred in the past. Then at 19:15 hours, another big surprise. A fighter jet flew just east above our home at a very high rate of speed and very low altitude of no more than a couple thousand feet high or so. While I told this to my friend he said that it was flying right above his home. I could even hear the jet roar on my phone. I have never seen a fighter jet taking off from our airport at that time before. (The control tower person said that there was a fighter jet in the area in my phone call to them yesterday) Still while all of this was going on the oval UFOs were about to the south and southeastern sky. Either there was two or three because they kept disappearing. Finally I had to leave for the basketball game and when I arrived there I saw a very bright red ball of light to the south of the center of Springfield. It had very small balls of white lights sparkling around it. I ran inside the gym and called my son at home who went out and said that it was just northeast of our home. He said that it just began moving southward accelerating very rapidly. I hung up the phone and ran back outside but I didn't see anything because of the street lights to the south. My son informed me when I got home that a small white light followed the red ball of light shortly after it went to the south of our home. This occurred at 20:00 hours. I will attempt to get any more information on police or sheriff reports around the area. The FAA control tower did not receive any UFO reports on Monday evening. However, they do forward any UFO reported sightings to an investigator locally who I know. Please read message post attached... Brian T. Adams Secretary, UFOIA, SIT# 2405 badams01@mail.orion.org ************************************************************************** If you have current sightings, testimonials of your personal sightings or UFO experiences, please feel free to contact UFOIA. All stories submitted to the UFOIA are for the use of the HOT FLASH and UFOIA's newsletter and UFOIA has the right to publish them in its electronic newsletter and a any future hard copy mail-out publications. The views expressed herein reflect the individual views of our members and not necessarily the overall view of UFOIA . ************************************************************************** Search for other documents from or mentioning: awyn | rwarneke | ufoia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 09:52:48 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:50:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 Chris Rutkowski said; >WAIT A MINUTE! >That's what *I* and many, many others have been telling readers of this >list for *weeks* now! And all we've been getting is flames! No, not at all. You have been getting legitimate questions and observations which you seem unwilling to entertain with a modicum of exploration. Sure, it may be a star, I have not ruled that out. It makes you wonder when you see a letter like this... Sent: 12/10/96 6:59 PM Received: 12/10/96 7:03 PM From: Russell Sipe, rsipe@deltanet.com To: Pat Parrinello, pparri@republic.net j_alonso@emin16.mail.aol.com This is my second response to this email. The first went to P Parrinello but did not include J Alonso (sorry). The chart from www.halebopp.com shows the position of HB for 8pm EST (7pm CST, Houston time) on the 14th. The Shramek photo would seem to be from earlier in the evening and the Alonso photo earlier still. As mentioned in my first response, Shramek indicated that his image was taken before it was completely dark (ie. most likely from 5-6pm CST). This squares with the photographic evidence. At what time was the Alonso photo taken? I'm fairly confident based on your overlays that the Alonso photo was taken before 5pm EST. The slightly different position of SAO141894 in the Alonso image is interesting. I suspect when the analysis is completed the answer could involve an off axis effect wherein the film or chip was not perfectly perpendicular to the light path. This effect would seem to advance the comet slightly further along its path than it should. However, this is just a speculation on my part and I will be interested in hearing the results. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The goodness of the night upon you. -- Othello Act 1 Scene 2 Russell Sipe www.halebopp.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >Linda Howe and Art Bell have been promoting the mystery companion all >this time and finally got some astronomers to say what everyone else >has been saying all along, and suddenly, Howe and Bell are somehow >vindicated? No, I think Linda has not entered into "promoting the mystery" but I may not have heard all of her input so I don't know. Better you'd said; "Bell & Howell" :) >Sorry, it doesn't work that way. This is what they should have done >*first*, before hyping the story. Is Sipe into hype? ;) >Nice try, though. Chris, Do I get an A for observation of available materials? :) Subject: Re: Fwd: Image from NOVEMBER 14, 1996 Sent: 12/10/96 4:59 PM Received: 12/10/96 6:28 PM From: Russell Sipe, rsipe@deltanet.com To: Pat Parrinello, pparri@republic.net Very nice work. You are only the second person to notice that the postion of HB in the chart on www.halebopp.com/slo2.htm is slightly different than in the Shramek photo. There is a simple yet interesting explanation as to how this came about. Notice that the time on the chart is 8pm. When I first received the Shramek photo I had no idea who took the image or at what time it was taken. All I knew was that it was taken on the evening of the 14th of November. So when I entered the parameters in The Sky4.0 charting program I entered 8pm without given much thought to it. The chart produced by the program clearly showed that the SLO was in actually SAO141894. I noticed that the Comet was slightly in the wrong position. However, not realizing how significant this whole SLO business was going to become, I did not take the time to print out a chart with an EARLIER time wherein HB's position would have corresponded exactly with the position in the Shramek photo. So what my chart told me was not only that the SLO object was a star, it told me that the photo was made PRIOR to 8pm EST as the comet would have been in the exact position of my chart at 8pm EST. Verification of this came when I later read Shramek's commentary that the sky was not even completely dark when he took his image (i.e. it must have been between 5 and 6pm or so when he took his image). - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The goodness of the night upon you. -- Othello Act 1 Scene 2 Russell Sipe www.halebopp.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Attachment Converted: D:\Download\3overlay1.gif Search for other documents from or mentioning: pparri | rsipe |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Moulton Howe From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:30:07 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:50:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Moulton Howe UFO UpDates - Toronto writes: > > For those following Hale-Bopp, this may be of interest. > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > [snip] > > There you have the establishment astronomers' statement on this issue. > And that is exactly _all_ it was, remembering the broad assumptions > _they_ made with regard to an _expected_ world view: that physics is > understood, and there are no surprises left in a universe we cannot even > see the end of . . .human arrogance can be more stupefying than its > ignorance. Moreover, it matters not so much whether Hale-Bopp even _has_ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Huh? You mean, you don't care that this whole thing has been a travesty promoted to guillible UFO buffs? Or, probably what you really mean is that it doesn't *matter* that there isn't really a companion object, because buffs will believe whatever they want and continue hyping stuff because of Millenial Fever. > a companion -- it is our corrosive reaction to its mere *suggestion* > that really chaps _my_ ass. If a strong determination to present the truth and correct misrepresented facts or errors is a "corrrosive reaction", then so be it. As for your ass, I'd suggest some Johnson's Lotion. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Greer, Admits His Connection With Rockefeller From: Dave.Tilbury@UK.Sun.COM (David Tilbury - Sun UK) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:37:05 GMT Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:46:19 -0500 Subject: Greer, Admits His Connection With Rockefeller >From Leading Edge: Dr. Steven Greer, CSETI, Admits His Connection With Lawrence Rockefeller Dr. Steven Greer, who in recent months flew to England to obtain a clear vivid video tape of a disk pulling aerial manuevers from an English couple and flew back to the US, refusing to show anyone the video, was on the Starfire Radio Program on Cable News Network on Nov 31st. When asked about the video tape, Greer stated that he had even better videos, but was saving them for Project Starlight, and indicated that none of the superlative videos would be released to the public. When asked how an apparently "poor country doctor" could afford to flit around the world and do all these things, Greer several times raised the fact of his friendship with Lawrence Rockefeller. While not a surprising revelation, this public statement ensures that Greer will now be counted among the ranks of those participating in the global coverup of information related to this issue, and adds his name to the long list of New World Order control factions determined to keep the general public ignorant on the important issue of interactions with other species. -------------------------------------------- No reply from him to me letter yet either? Dave -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: Dave.Tilbury@UK.Sun.COM (David Tilbury - Sun UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Newspaper Research From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:37:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:51:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Newspaper Research The other day I mentioned brief some aspects of archival research. No one has a really has a good idea of how much ufo data exists. Ruppelt estimated that the Air Force only got 10% of the sightings. I have constantly seen this number used and re-used in arguments. Based on the 1952 wave Ruppelt's estimate is 4 time too high. The USAF clipping service for Arpil to September 1952 turned up about 60,000 no duplicated items according to Strentz study. The USAF, itself, had a total of 1500 reports for 1952 or 2.5% of the total in their clipping service which while the Service was extensive; it was not exhaustive and did not cover the whole year. We estimate that there have easily been over 1,000,000 news items carried in the North American press over the past 50 years. (2 items per year x 11,000 newspaper x fifty years.) We know that there are concentrations of reports in time. These concentrations may vary from place to place. In North American we have identified many of these major concentrations or flaps as we call them. So we can check Jun-Jul 1947, Mar-Apr 1950, Apr-Oct 1952, Nov 1957, Apr-May 1964, etc., etc. Of course there are local concentrations at other times, southern New England Aug 1956, or times when the press decided it was alright to print stories for a short time around the Chile-Whitted sighting in July 1948. For years a number of us have queitly researched old newspapers, visited newspaper offices, and copied other researchers' collections and tried to preserve these data. We have used the significant newspaper collections at Harvard and Yale to augment this effort. Basically the newspapers during each wave are exaimed, item copied and catalogued. We also attempt to check references--and there are plenty. The Fortean Society made long lists of ufo sightings by date and location only. The same is almost true for publications like INFINITY. Some newspapers have indices: London Times, Le Monde, the San Francisco newspapers, the excellent 1947-50 index to the Baltimore Sun newspapers, the British Columbian Legistlative Library index, etc., etc. Many newspapers still have clipping files. Additional libraries have vertical or clipping files on different subjects. Some people, God bless them, have gone through every issue of certain newspapers: W. Ritchie Benedict and Michel Deschamps, for instance. Some newspapers have extreme extensive clipping files: THE WINNIPEG TRIBUNE. Here are checks so we don't just get bogged down in the waves, but sample the whole last 50 years. Clipping services are also helpful in this material. Almost from the beginning, there were individuals or organizations that had clipping services from time to time. I understand that the UFOCAT has over 100,000 entries. However, since it is bibliographical--that is each publication that mentions a ufo report gets an entry line--, the amount of duplication is large. Project 1947 has checked 4900 newspapers world wide. The amount of clippings is mind boggling. Barry Greenwood's clipping collection contains about 170 notebooks of about 200 pages each with 3-5 clipping per page. This is well over 100,000 items. When added to the NICAP/CSI, Dr. Leon Davidson, and USAF 1952 microfilm clipping collections, we start to approach 200,000 items a significant sample of the estimated total. CUFOS with the NICAP, CSI-LA, CSI-NY Hynek and other organizations files has probably the biggest collection in North America. When the AF contracted the Battelle for their computer analysis, they should have used two sets of data, the USAF files and the clipping service files. I am quite sure the results would have different and interesting. I still believe something can be done with this rawest of raw data. In the meantime the collection effort continues. Jan Aldrich, Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Sighting Ventura County, Southern CA From: "Derrel & Doris Sims" <dwsims@compassnet.com> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:12:43 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:53:15 -0500 Subject: Sighting Ventura County, Southern CA Great stuff Helen,,,I have another story of like magnitude on the order of my sighting with Dr. Leir...I will forward as it comes to us...Best to you dear lady..Derrel ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Sighting Ventura County, Southern CA > Date: Thursday, December 05, 1996 12:18 AM > > Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 08:09:12 -0800 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Mary Helen Corrado <mcorrado@jetlink.net> > Subject: Sighting > > Our MUFON website received an e-mail message from a > local family who has had 4 days of consecutive sightings of > an anomalous object in Ventura County in Southern CA. I > visited these people Monday night and had a sighting of my > own. Here is my personal account of what I witnessed. > > Object was first sighted by 1 witness at about > 4:55pm in the Northern sky. It was visible over an oak > tree at an angle of about 45-50 degrees in the sky. With > the naked eye, the object appeared to be a pinpoint of > light about the size of a small "o" on the page. (to the > casual viewer, it would easily be mistaken for a star.) > There was no twinkling effect noted with the naked eye. > It was apparent that the object was slowly moving in a > direction either higher in the sky or closer to the viewing > area. The light was pure white in color. With a set of > binoculars 16 x 50, the object did not have the appearance > of a star. There was no "twinkling effect" as seen from > atmospheric distortion. It seemed to be self-illuminating. > It had a spherical appearance to it, and was about the > size of an "O" on this page. We were able to observe other > aircraft in the area, and the reflection from the sun at > this point was a reddish hue. There was no reflective > element noted on the object. The sun was not visible at > the horizon at this time, although the sky was still light > from the sunset. With the naked eye, it was apparent that > the object was meandering across the sky. We observed it > moving higher and to our right for several minutes. At > about 5:10pm, we noticed that the object appeared to change > color. At this time, the sky was darker, and no reddish > reflection visible from the sunset. With the binoculars, I > could see that the object took on a ruddy/peach colored > hue. I took my eyes away for a moment, and when I looked > again with the binoculars, there was a small pinpoint > object of the same color which appeared to be heading below > and to the left of the primary object. It was the size of > the small "o" on this page. I observed the objects > separating until they could not be in the same field of > view of the binoculars. The smaller object was not visible > to the naked eye. I continued to watch the primary object > and it seemed to get a duskier color, and I noticed what > seemed to be small round puffs from the top of the object. > It appeared that the object was moving downward away from > the puffs. All at once, I saw another small object the > size of a small "o" separate from the main object on its > left side. The two objects were in close proximity to each > other and moved in tandem upward and then disappeared in > what looked like a puff or mist. At no time was any sound > noted from the object. At the time the objects > disappeared from sight, they were at an angle of about 70 > to 75 degrees in the sky. End of sighting 5:12pm > > These witnesses have seen it now for 5 days in a row. > The location varies slightly, as does the altitude. The > other day, the object was seen below the clouds and > appeared much larger than it did tonight. Part of our > investigative team is going back Tuesday nite to see if the > object will appear again. I will keep you posted!! > > Mary Helen Corrado > MUFON Ventura/Santa Barbara Counties > Newbury Park, CA - Northwest of LA > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net > Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-932-0031 > > An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of > UFO Related Phenomena > > > >
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 IFO UpDate: Aliens Invade TV, Movies, Malls From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:17:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:52:26 -0500 Subject: IFO UpDate: Aliens Invade TV, Movies, Malls --------------------- Forwarded message: From: AOLNewsProfiles@aol.net Date: 96-12-12 13:15:21 EST .c The Associated Press By TED ANTHONY AP National Writer PITTSBURGH (AP) -- Sure, Ross Park Mall at Christmastime may appear a typical crowded shopping mecca. But something unearthly's afoot in this pastiche of suburban consumer bliss. Don't spread it around, but extraterrestrials -- space aliens, outworlders, little green men; call 'em what you will -- lurk around every corner. Spencer Gifts offers alien black-light posters, keychains, belly-button chains, mugs and an alien salt-and-pepper set ``for an out-of-this-world taste.'' Downstairs at Claire's Accessories, an entire alien display features mood rings, temporary tattoos, even alien ``Have a Nice Day'' smiley faces. There's more. The Suncoast video store's main window displays a flying saucer over Manhattan for the video release of the alien invasion movie ``Independence Day.'' The big sellers at the calendar kiosk are ``The X-Files,'' ``Star Trek'' and ``Space Jam.'' We always believed they'd invade more directly -- abductions, manipulation, outright attack. But aliens are infiltrating America in a more insidious way: through popular culture. Interest in otherworldly beings has escalated in the last two decades, but even more so in the past two years. Now film, television, the Internet, even malls are saturated with alien images. ``ET sells right now,'' says Erik Beckjord, a Berkeley MBA who recently opened the UFO, Bigfoot and Loch Ness Monster Museum in San Francisco. One of his first products: inflatable alien dolls. Why is this happening? There are several theories. Our technologically enhanced era has brought us nearer to the stars, both philosophically and physically, in recent years. Scientific discoveries like the possibility of microbial life on Mars and the existence of planets outside our solar system, combined with the dawn of the global village philosophy, make many people conclude it would be arrogant to think only Earth supports intelligent life. But it's more than that. These alien images come from a source all too human -- our anxieties. Some say the belief in aliens, along with the recent popularity of angels, is simply secularized religion retooled for popular consumption. One such outlet is the Weekly World News, the most out-there of the supermarket tabloids. Aliens are its staple (``Captured Alien Warns of Invasion from Space!'' ``Demi Moore's Alien Connection!''), and in 1994 it proclaimed 12 U.S. senators extraterrestrials. ``In our culture today, everything has been solved by science,'' says its editor, Eddie Clontz. ``There's just not much left that hasn't been flatly explained. But the human imagination has a need, and aliens are fulfilling that need.'' As television blurs lines between documentary and docudrama, shows about unsolved mysteries are building elaborate theories around grainy footage and conspiracy speculations. ``It gives us something to create our own ideas with,'' says Deon Crosby, director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell, N.M. Her institution is located near the site where, in 1947, something unusual fell out of the sky. Official accounts described it as a weather balloon, but many people believe it was an alien craft. That incident became a springboard for many popular perceptions, including the ``flying saucer'' and theories that Americans are regularly abducted by aliens. In recent months, some rather gruesome film purporting to show an autopsy of an alien from the Roswell crash has circulated on the Internet, been featured in Penthouse magazine -- and already being dramatized on the immensely popular alien-conspiracy TV show, ``The X-Files.'' Though the latest aliens-on-Earth boom started with 1977's ``Close Encounters of the Third Kind'' (followed by TV's ``Mork and Mindy'') and grew with 1982's ``ET: The Extraterrestrial,'' many attribute the interest of the last two years to ``The X-Files'' and its linkage of alien visits to governmental conspiracies. ``It's brought it out into a weekly ritual,'' Crosby said. Now television offers a gamut, from the broad alien sitcom ``3rd Rock From the Sun'' to the eerie drama ``Dark Skies.'' On the large screen, the big-budget ``Independence Day,'' about aliens attacking and destroying sundry Americans and their landmarks, was a box office blockbuster and shot to the top of the Billboard video-sales charts in its first week of release last month. ``Mars Attacks!'', a black comedy about similar themes, opens in theaters Friday and is expected to do well. ``In the '50s, aliens were a metaphor for the enemy. Now, they're the enemy itself because there's nothing to be a metaphor for,'' says Robert Thompson, a television professor at Syracuse University. ``If we can't be afraid of something geopolitical, like the Soviet Union,'' he says, ``then we manufacture them.'' Then there's the Internet, a vast and fast information distributor driven in many ways by the very people -- sci-fi fans and technodreamers -- most likely to believe. In cyberspace can be found 300-plus World Wide Web sites dealing with aliens, including Roswell autopsy pictures, purportedly official government UFO documents and tracts linking alien visitations to apocalypse. A Usenet newsgroup called ``alt.sex.aliens'' offers advice on ``how to make the most of your UFO abduction.'' But if aliens are indeed among us, they're staying quiet for now. They probably don't want to saturate the market any further, what with such things as pins depicting the Pillsbury Dough Boy with alien eyes or Pittsburgh's Interstellar Cafe, which offers espresso, computer access and lots of talk about what may be out there. ``To me, these television shows, all this merchandizing, is brainwashing the American public into believing,'' says Philip J. Klass, a writer for Aviation Week & Space Technology who has spent his career investigating, then debunking, UFO sightings and alien visitations. ``I would love nothing more than to write a story saying I found something that could not be explained by prosaic or down-to-earth terms,'' Klass says. ``But in 30-plus years, I haven't found one.'' AP-NY-12-12-96 1302EST Copyright 1996 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.</I></PRE></HTML> To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:27:56 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:54:01 -0500 Subject: Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever Sasquatch: Streiber has long since divorced himself from the notion of physical ETs. Have you? Velez: NOPE! I firmly believe that we are dealing with a physical (as in occupies 3 dimensional space, and has mass and substance) phenomenon. I believe that if you knock on a UFO you'll hear the "Ping"! Sasquatch: Then you have a dilemma, don't you? You've both had the same experience, but one of you thinks it was at the hands of physical ETs and the other doesn't. Now what is an outsider like me -- indeed, _any_ outsider -- supposed to make of this situation? You can't fault me for being confused if the heart of the experience is such that it can support both "interpretations," as well as others. Velez: Dennis, why don't you do what Whitley and I did. When I first began to suspect my involvement,I went to a psychologist, (contrary to popular myth) and had myself tested. Try working out your 'personal issues' that way, rather than "projecting" them on us,(and putting 'US' into the position of having to answer and explain them) thank you very much. Sas: And what "personal issues" would those be, John? Are you saying that I'm not allowed to ask questions and propose theories? Am I supposed to go see a psychiatrist because I came up with a theory that attempts to grapple with the Roper Report numbers, _not_ -- let me reiterate -- your own personal experience? For all I know, both you and Whitley were abducted by real aliens -- which wouldn't necessarily affect my theory at all, as you'd know if you would ever bother to read it, as opposed to just vehemently denouncing it. I would be perfectly happy personally if the Roper numbers would just go away, in which case there wouldn't be any need for a theory like mine. But abductionologists continue to cite them as if they really meant something. Velez: Whitley had the courage and conscience to publicly report what was happening to himself and his family. I don't see how permission to use his name in the kind of insulting example that you made is implied in any of that! And let me ask you a question Dennis, why is it that you can make a buck off of your published work, and it's not O-K for Whitley? Are you jealous that Whitley made (more money) than you? What gives? You say that as if the man committed an unexcusable crime. He published a book or three and they sold! God bless him,...what's wrong with that for Christs sake? Did I miss something here or aren't we allowed to make money in America anymore? Whitley didn't stand around on street corners holding a gun on the public to buy his books. They chose to. Sas: Of course it's OK for anyone to make a living off their writing. I reiterate what I said earlier, though: When that writing deals specifically with one's inner and family life, then I'm equally free -- having paid for the book -- to raise any questions I have the courage and conscience to, as well. Sorry, John, but it comes with the territory. That's why there are two sets of libel standards in this country, one dealing with public figures, and one dealing with everyone else. Streiber is a public person. He's been subjected to a lot more "insulting" suggestions and questions than my one. (I might add that Strieber once had a writing career wholly outside the UFO field. What happened to that career? As you say, the marketplace indeed dictates what sells and what doesn't, which raises the issue: is Streiber immune to any none too subtle marketplace demands and pressures to come up with another book of "Visitor" experiences? It's a question I don't pretend to answer, but one I and others have every right to at least raise, unpleasant as it might be.) There is nothing Whitley can do that would make me jealous. (Nothing personal, Mr. Streiber!) My question is not, in your words, an "insulting example." I do admit that the whole subject of abortion in this country is an emotionally charged one (which was part and parcel of my theory). No one has yet been shot at for saying they were abducted, for example. But your choice of words throughout this discussion indicates that you are reacting much more emotionally to the subject than I am. Velez: When I'm offended "I WILL SAY" a lot! And sorry, but you're not going to make me or any of the other abductees that have come forward "just go away" you're going to have to deal with me (and them) susquatch, like it or not. You have to be a lot more than "taller" than me, to run me off buckaroo! After having to deal with aliens, humans are "easy meat" try again though, I love a good challenge! <G> Sas: I'm almost at a loss as to how to respond. You could call me anything under the Sun, John, and I assure you that the "offense" would lie with me, and not you. Are you paranoid? Where is there the least suggestion in what I've said that I'm trying to get you or anyone else to "just go away"? While you're here, though, there is one thing I wish you'd do and that's read David Hufford's "The Terror That Comes in the Night: An Experience-Centered Study of Supernatural Assault Traditions," University of Pennsylvania Press, 1982. Your library should have it, and I believe a paperback edition is still in print. ISBN 0-8122-7851-8. To return briefly but to one other issue you raised: anomalous scars and scoop marks. Have you ever heard of stigmata? Do you then believe that individuals who suffer or display same were crucified by real Roman soldiers? There is a vast body of literature, medical, religious, anecdotal and other dealing with the remarkable ability of the mind to influence matter, in this case the human body. It appears, then, that stigmata is somehow psychological in origin. Does that mean that I in anyway "demean" the stigmatee? Of course not. If anything, it increases my appreciation for the power and wonder of the human mind. At the same time, it obviously calls for a radically new definition of what most of us mean by "psychological." There are also thousands of people today who testify to sexual abuse and satanic cults (and sacrifice) for which there is absolutely no objective evidence whatsoever. Should one conclude from that there is absolutely no sexual abuse nor satanic cults anywhere? Of course not. One nonetheless remains obliged to come up with some theory that would account for the obviously "false" cases, even when the experiencer of same may remain completely convinced of the reality of their experience. In some cases they are simply (and demonstrably) wrong -- which hasn't prevented the ruin of numerous lives. (Maybe you ought to take in the new movie of Arthur Miller's "The Crucible" this weekend and think deeply about any possible implications, assuming you don't consider that another "insulting" exercise on my part.) That was the whole point of my original theory. There may well be UFO abductions -- certainly there is a UFO abduction experience! -- but nowhere near anything on the scale suggested by the Roper Report numbers. (Work out the math and logistics on your own sometime.) But assuming the numbers might indicate _something_ going on in the body politic, what could that something be? That was the question that I originally asked myself, not any "personal issue" or "projection" that I felt compelled to work out, dig? I'm sorry you didn't like the answer I came up with. I'll try to do better next time. In the meantime, not going nowhere, neither... SA Sasquatch Area 102
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: BGBOPPER@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:05:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:54:50 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 I would like to thank both Kevin Randle and Stanton Friedman for answering my first post on this, or for that matter any newsgroup. I found Kevin's answers to be concise, easy to understand, and without malice directed at the questioner. On the other hand I apologize to Mr. Friedman, for it seems that he feels that my questions are both unreasonable and uneducated. >Re Russ Estes list of questions. Russ, I am sorry you find my answers or comments not >responsive. Let me briefly run down your list of questions: I asked,* * 1. If we agree on the fact that area 51 is a top secret test facility (a nd I'm sure that we all know that it is just that) and if the only reference to any alien object at area 51 was made by Bob Lazar... What is the point? >1.I have many times said, there are 2 separate questions: Is Bob Lazar telling the truth about >Bob Lazar? 2. Are there saucers at Area 51? That Bob is lying about Bob clearly tells us nothing >about whther there are saucers there. I have had a quiet witness tell me there were saucers >brought there back in the 1940s. Led Stringfield has told of people saying there were saucers >there. It is an obvious site for testing of any kind of highly classified advanced propulsion >system. Mr. Friedman, Your answer brings up another question. Are you saying that there have been saucers at Area 51 since the 1940's? * 2. Have we forgotten about Wrigtht- Patterson or Wright Field, as it was called, as the final destination for any recovered artifacts of alien contact? >2. I have no reason to say any place was the final destination for saucer wreckage. Do >you,Russ?That some materials went to WPAFB or WF, doesn't mean they stayed there. It is not >very likely that such a crowded highly populated place would be the testing location anymore >than the U2 was tested there. Roughly 20,000 people work there and there are roughly 1000 >buildings.. many with highly limited access. Nope, I have no idea what the final destination for saucer wreckage is. This was just a question based on the information that has been published. * 3. Mr. Friedman, it has been said that you are the only scientist who is in the field of Ufology (At least on a full time basis). Have you published your protocols for the research of the phenomenon? If you have, where can I find them? If not, Why? >3. I know many scientists involved with ufology. I have no idea how one would publish >protocols. What I have been doing over several decades involves many different activities. It is >not like abduction research. I have published more than 70 papers some quite large, co-authored >a book, authored another. I think they provide readers with a very good handle on what I do and >how I do it. .. certainly judging by responses to TOP SECRET/MAJIC If protocols exist, I would imagine that publishing them would be fairly easy. It seems logical to me that guidelines, methodology, and protocols must be published and accepted as the standard before anyone could accept the results as factual. Also by your answer I get the impression that you feel Abduction Research is more readily subject to protocols? * 4. Mr. Randle, what makes you think that MJ-12 and the MJ-12 Operations Manual is bogus? >4.Kevin, to his credit, has written a lengthy paper about MJ-12, an appendix to a book, a >magazine article and other items. I have responded at length. It would appear that you have read >neither his materials nor mine which one would think would come before asking these questions. >I hope you don't think that the internet is the sum of all wisdom. Mr Friedman, thank you for answering this question even though it was directed to Mr. Randle. In response to your answer, I have read most of Mr. Randle's published work including some fine Science Fiction. As to the question of your work, I have read "Crash at Corona" and have seen you speak on several occasions. I have also read a few of the articles either authored or co-authored by you in the MUFON Journal. As far as your 70 papers go, I can find no reference to them in the public domain, when you pull up Stanton Friedman on the Los Angeles Public Library data base you get "Crash at Corona" and I am sure that your new book has been added. If you expect anyone who asks you a question to read your 70 papers before they are qualified to ask that question please get them published. On your statement referring to the Internet, I find it to be nothing more than an opportunity to ask a question and get a direct answer..."Sum of all wisdom"??? I don't think so! * 5. Mr. Friedman, if in fact area 51 did not exist prior to 1954, as a secret facility, how could the MJ-12 Operations Manual refer to it? >5. Obviously if there was no AREA 51 or plans for one as a secret facility prior to April, 1954, >the Manual could not refer to it. The problem is getting history on still very highly classified >projects. I have not said the document is genuine. Read the last paragraph on page 166 of >TOPSECRET/MAJIC.."authentication will be no easy task, as the results must be solid enough >to withstand the onslaught of both debunkers and a government that denies the existence of alien >craft". Having worked undr security with a Q clearance for 14 years and having visited 15 >archives, I have a reasonably good idea about how difficult it is to get information on black >programs. Mr. Friedman, since you brought it up, How do you define an archive? * 6. Mr. Randle, it quiet obvious that you and Mr. Friedman don't see eye to eye on many subjects. It is also a fact the Mr. Friedman has done some ground-breaking research on the Roswell case. Why have you not credited him in either of your books on that topic? >6. As I have noted and quoted in one of my papers, and as you would have noticed if you had >read it,I was given a good acknowledgment by Kevin and Don in "The UFO Crash at Roswell". >Kevin has written more than 2 books about crashed saucers. Note for example "A history of >UFO Crashes".. Avon. Once again Mr. Friedman, I thank you for your response...but.. This question was directed to Mr. Randle and was based on your complaints of not being acknowledged in the bibliographies of his books. >By the way Russ, how about telling us about your scientific background ? Stan Friedman Stan, since we are now on a first name basis, I have not claimed to be a "Scientist" nor did I know that I had to clear my credentials with the credential desk before asking any questions.<Grin> My goal in asking the questions was not to get in on "Friedman bashing" or dueling. Unless I am reading your answers all wrong, and that could be, what I am getting from them is a pompous attitude and a condescending manner. The fact that the field of Ufology does not have a certifying board for researchers or any accredited degrees makes the acceptance of standardized protocols and procedures even more important. Then again, if answers to the phenomenon is not the goal we have both just wasted some precious time. This is not the kind of correspondence that I usually engage in, in an open forum, but due to the tone of your answers I felt it necessary to respond. If feelings have been hurt or if my questions are inane, please forgive me. R. Estes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Wormwood? From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:49:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:42:28 -0500 Subject: Wormwood? Posted on the Art Bell website... http://www.artbell.com From: Name@Withheld To: artbell@aol.com Date: 96-12-11 00:33:29 EST Dear Mr. Bell, I have listened to your program off and on for around two years now, whenever I get "down-time". I have some disturbing information and I fell that your program would be the perfect vehicle with which to distribute what I have. I have been under the employ of the Vatican for over five years. I have done what could best be described as counter-intelligence work, for the church. I am a man of God and please believe me when I tell you that the information I have is genuine, and very serious. Without going into too much detail about my former employers, I will briefly tell you that I have had a Top Level security clearance in the Vatican for quite some time. Most of the work I have done regrettably falls into the realm of "black-ops", and I will not go into detail about that now. Around six months ago, I was working at a data terminal in a highly restricted area following a case that I had just completed, when I stumbled onto something that nearly made my heart stop. Please pay attention here, this is where it gets strange. I uncovered a heavily encrypted sub-system that was suprisingly well hidden. I found that it was only accessible through the terminal I was at, and one other terminal. (I must point out that the area I was in was not an area that I routinely used.) After two minute of trying to get into the system, the whole lab shut itself down and I was booted off the terminal. Not wanting to raise any eyebrows, I decided to leave and come back later that night. The strange thing was, when I came back, there were ARMED guards standing sentry outside of the lab. I must say that it is not unusual to see guards roaming the Vatican, but it is very unusual for them to stand sentry at a lab, much less while armed. Over the next month, I managed to slip in unnoticed only once. And after I had found what I came for, I understood the security. It took me a good deal of time to break into the system, and when I did, I wished I hadn't. When I entered the system, I came across a file titled "WORMWOOD?". (Yes, with a question mark.) Thinking it to be a text file, I brought up the file with the intent of copying so I could read it later. What happened next was truly remarkable. The file sort of "deteriorated" into a series of command lines that lasted approximately two minutes. Once it was done running, there it was. I had found a direct link-up to the Hubble space telescope. Not only that, but it was pointed directly at the comet Hale-Bopp. The program was running some kind of analysis. Taking directional notes, projecting path of travel, etc. After realizing what I had discovered, I started searching and came across an e-mail data trail that led directly to the office of the Pope himself. What was discussed, I cannot know. Over the next two weeks, I began to uncover evidence that the Vatican is very aware of the existence of the companion, and is VERY worried about it. I began to copy files and pictures that were present at the terminal, when I found a report from the United Nations to the Vatican, as well as a report from NASA regarding their concerns. It is very obvious to me that a great many people and entities know of the companion and are doing their best to keep quiet. VERY quiet. As the next part of my story illustrates. I had found another file that I wanted to look at, but it was independently encrypted. At the time that I discovered it, I had already been online at the terminal for some time, so I decided to copy the file encrypted, and decode it at my leisure. As I was leaving the lab, I was approached by two of the Pope's top aides and was asked to meet them later in the evening. I didn't feel comfortable about the situation, so I agreed and told them that I needed to shower, and would join them later. I haven't been back to the Vatican since. I found out about a week later through some old friends and contacts that a contract had been placed on my life. Two days later my mother and father were killed in a car crash in France. Three days after that, my brother and sister were killed when their single engine plane went down on the East coast of the U.S. I've been on the run for a very long time now, and am still trying to decode the file that I have in my possession. Approximately ten copies have been distributed to friends in the field in the event that I should diappear. I do not fear for my life, as I am very adept at not being found, however I believe that the world needs to know of the information that I have. I would be willing to share all that I have wuth you Mr. Bell. But you need to understand that your life could be in danger if you were to go public with what I give you. I apologize for being so vague, but I feel it necessary at this point in time. If you would like the information, say so over the air when you get this letter. If I am not listening, someone will get the information to me, as there is no safe way for you to contact me at this point in time. I await your response. --PRIEST-- Search for other documents from or mentioning: houstonsky | name |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #5. From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:15:56 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:36:49 -0500 Subject: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #5. Welcome to The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #5. (Members 771 on 12-12-96) Added a Crop circle report at Grayville Illinois, North America on the International 1996 Crop Circle page. Updated Cerealogist advert winter issue 1996. Contents included. Updated Circular advert Autumn issue 1996. Contents included. Update on The Spiral Dec/Jan 97 issue. Contents included. Updated Annecco Blansons HomePage With an article called The Gakayll and the Windmill Hill formation Patrick's Crop Circuley Page link added "Observations of the video footage of the lights at Olivers Castle". We have added a New colour Mpeg version of the video of the lights at Olivers Castle. Melin's HomePage updated including personal details of Merlin and details of the Games. CPRI HomePage updated including new lecture dates for Colin Andrews in 1997, with new statement on the Olivers Castle Video. All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Welcome, David Jacobs From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:44:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:39:18 -0500 Subject: Welcome, David Jacobs Hello all, Two days ago a message came across my monitor (from the Updates list) signed by Dave Jacobs. I have waited patiently for two days to see if any of our resident 'Hard Cores' would acknowledge his presence or engage him. I guess it's like when deer get caught in oncoming headlights and they just freeze! <G> Drumroll...brrrrrrrrmp! I'd like to welcome David to the list and say, "Glad to have you aboard!" You are an interesting and (most welcome) addition to the 'galleria' that EBK has assembled. Looking forward to hearing from you. *Dave, check out the "IF" website that I've put together, (URL in signature) let me know what you think, and if there's anything you can contribute. I'd be happy to include an offering from you. Zap me a private e-mail about it and we'll talk. Take care. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 03:17:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:40:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Theresa is right about the cameraman. We shouldn't forget that this film could have been shot for a B-movie decades agoWWe don't know where it was shot or when. But there is a story about the cameraman which should be able to be backed up.... STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: rudiak@garnet.berkeley.edu Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:31:00 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:37:34 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > > From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 12:04:45 -0400 > > Re Ed Stewart and downed satellite. At least do your homework and read my > page > > 164 in TOP SECRET/MAJIC . how in the world can you say nary a peep about > > sattelite.. "Another obvious concern was the mention of "downed > satellites"... > > My apologies. > > This is what you wrote on page 164: > > "Considering that the first Sputnik wasn't launched until 1957, was > this a goof by a forger? I dug out some pre-1954 books about space flight and > checked back issues of the Readers' Guide to Periodical Literature for uses > of the term SATELLITE. I found several articles that used the term for a > manufactured object in orbit around the earth prior to April 1954. There had > also been an active program led by Clyde ombaugh, who had discovered Pluto > as a very young amateur astronomer in 1930, to search for artificial > satellites near Earth." > > Any reason why you failed to provide your readers with the actual references? Please see my original response to your post in which I extensively reference the story of Tombaugh's search and an earlier attempt by astronomer Fritz Zwicky to launch projectiles into orbit with explosives, dating clear back to 1946. The first public reference to Tombaugh's search was by Dr. Lincoln La Paz in the Feb., 1954 Astronomical Society of the Pacific Journal. La Paz said Tombaugh was searching for NATURAL satellites, not artificial ones. On March 3, the public information office at White Sands, put out a story that Tombaugh was looking for "moonlets" which had recently gone into earth orbit, with the idea of using them for natural space stations. This would imply that these alleged natural satellites were in near earth orbit. > I strongly suspect that each and every one of these articles you found are in > the context of what could be done in the future and not in the context that > it was an acceptable fact that artificial satellites were in orbit. These 1954 articles were about NATURAL objects having taken up orbit RECENTLY around the earth. That goes back to at least the March, 1954 White Sands press statement. The Aviation Week story in August said that there were two objects, 400 and 600 miles out, which had thrown the Air Force into a panic during the summer. The story was immediately denied by the Air Force, but the N.Y. Times claimed that a source close to the project told them the story was true. More on this below. > There is no doubt that there were plenty of papers in the scientific > community as well as the popular literature that discussed the placing in > orbit of artificial satellites during the first 57 years of this century. > The concept was not invented in 1957. But 1957 was the first year that an > artificial satellite was placed in orbit. All this is true, but as I mentioned in my other post, attempts had been made to blast projectiles into orbit from New Mexico starting back in 1946. After August, 1947, public comment on the project ceased -- at least I can't find any further articles on it in the N.Y. Times Index. It was the unsubstantiated belief of Los Alamos chemist Leon Davidson (best known for his critique of Blue Book Special Report #14), that these "artificial meteors" were responsible for the green fireball sightings that started over New Mexico in late 1948. > But how you rationalize that to vindicate the SOM reference to "downed > satellite" is simply beyond my comprehension. There was also a lot of press > in the fifties to what was commonly referred to as "mystery satellites" > which was mostly based on conjectures and speculation. Rumors were rampant, > but none ever panned out. However, a story had been put out there in March, 1954, that natural objects had entered orbit around earth. The "downed satellite" in SOM isn't specific about natural or artificial satellites. Not that it makes any difference. It would be a lot easier to say an ordinary meteor had impacted that to mention one of those "natural satellites" crashing to earth. > My original point remains valid. Any such "cover story" of a "downed > satellite" by a government agency would not have kept the media away. It > would have brought the media down on any alleged "recovery operation" as > flies on honey. It sounds to me that the MJ-12 think tank were nothing but > a bunch of idiots. I have to agree. Using a satellite cover, "natural" or artificial, would have invited massive inquiry. That's the same reason I think the theory that Roswell base issued a flying disc recovery press release as "cover" for a Mogul balloon crash is idiotic as well. > In regards to Clyde Tombaugh, the program he was involved in was tasked to > find ANY satellite previously undetected in Earth orbit. The Moon is a > satelllite. We all know of that one. Please cite the > expecific reference you failed to mention that states "artificial satellites" > in connection with Clyde Tombaugh's work? Friedman got the "artificial" part wrong. But there was definitely something a little weird about Tombaugh looking for natural "moonlets" in near earth orbit. With the discovery of two predicted, cloudlike natural "moons" in the gravity-neutral "Lagrangian points" out at lunar orbit, the New York Times on June 22, 1961 (p.33) reported: "In 1953 a search of the heavens for natural minor satellites of the earth was initiated by Dr. Clyde Tombaugh ... who is now at the New Mexico State University's research center. He scanned the skies, going farther and farther out and getting "nibbles" now and then, as he said in a telephone interview last night. None of the nibbles proved out, and the study was terminated in 1958. Dr. Tombaugh's search did not extend as far out as the moon's orbit, however, except for the inspection of another astronomer's photographs of one of the two regions there where minor satellites "ought" to be if they were anywhere, he said." "These regions are known as Lagrangian points, after Count Joseph Louis Lagrange, the French geometer and astronomer who in 1772 calculated the behavior of an infinitesimal body in relation to two larger ones in a three-mass gravitational system. He found two points where the gravitational force is weak, allowing a body -- the infinitesimal one -- to remain in them quite stably. These are the points in the earth-moon system lying sixty degrees fore and aft of the moon in its orbit." The point here is that astronomers had known for nearly 200 years that natural "satellites" would be expected out at the moon's orbit in the Lagrangian points, but had no reasonable expectation of finding something like an asteroid taking up orbit closer in, where Tombaugh concentrated his search. The odds against this happening are mathematically very remote. But instead of searching the likely spots and making a new discovery, Tombaugh searched the unlikely regions closer to earth. Back on Aug. 29, 1954, the N.Y. Times reported that Tombaugh's search was being supported by the Army Office of Ordnance Research, with the purpose of finding natural satellites that could serve as ready-made space stations, but that nothing had been found. In the same article, the Times said a person close to the project (whom they didn't identify), stated that two objects had indeed been found in near-earth orbit and Dr. Lincoln La Paz had been involved in trying to identify them, just as the Aviation "Leak" story on Aug. 23 had originally reported. La Paz denied being involved (even though he originally described Tombaugh's search back in February), but didn't deny the truth of the rest of the story. [As many of us already know, La Paz was deeply involved in New Mexico UFO investigations for the Air Force, perhaps dating clear back to the original Roswell crash. La Paz's first UFO sighting was just two days after the Roswell story broke and just 80 miles away.] I might add, that when Dr. Hynek did his astronomer survey for Blue Book back in June, 1952, and Tombaugh related his three UFO sightings, Tombaugh told Hynek that he was willing to put his New Mexico telescopes at the disposal of the Air Force. Tombaugh meant this originally for transient UFO sightings. But it indicated Tombaugh's willingness to use his scopes to search for UFOs. [Hynek's report is reprinted in "Project Blue Book" by Brad Steiger.] A month after the Aviation Week story, on Sept. 18, 1954, Ed Ruppelt stated that the green fireballs reappeared over Colorado and northern New Mexico. La Paz was called back into investigate. Ruppelt also reported that back in 1952, he visited Los Alamos, and the scientists there opined that the green fireballs were probes coming from spaceships orbiting several hundred miles above. And in Oct. 1954, Donald Keyhoe ("Aliens From Space") said NACA issued a press statement that they had picked up strange signals from an unknown orbiting object. [Unfortunately, I haven't had an opportunity to run this story down to see if Keyhoe got this right. Maybe somebody else out there knows.] I think this stories of mystery orbiting objects taking up recent residence near Earth goes somewhat beyond mere press rumor. And for what little it's worth, they started coming out at about the same time as the date on the SOM, with its mention of a "downed satellite" cover story. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Archival Research From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 03:32:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:40:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Archival Research Kudos to Jan Aldrich for his fine report on available archival materials. Another word not used by the USAF was Corona. The MAXWELL AFB files (where the Blue Book Files were then located) had a number of listings for UFO in the various base and group histories card index.. separate from the Blue Book material. Unfortunately many of those were classified 20 years ago when I first looked and some were still classified less than 10 years ago. There was for example Project Pinball.. re UFO observations in Alaska way back around l950 as I recall. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 - AUFORA - Origin of life studies urged From: AUFORA News Update <dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 00:20:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:41:38 -0500 Subject: - AUFORA - Origin of life studies urged AUFORA News Update Wednesday, December 11th, 1996 <www.aufora.org> ______________________________ ORIGIN OF LIFE STUDIES URGED from Nando Times WASHINGTON (Dec 11, 1996 7:48 p.m. EST) -- A blue ribbon panel of experts said Wednesday that NASA is on track in a program to find answers to some of the most basic questions in science: How did life, the Earth and the universe all begin. The committee of scientists, selected mostly by the National Academy of Sciences, briefed Vice President Al Gore on the prospects of finding life beyond the Earth, of discovering new planets beyond the sun and of ultimately understanding the nature and history of the universe itself. All in two hours. John Gibbons, the White House science adviser, said the briefing was in preparation for a meeting in February in which Gore and others in the administration will draw up specific plans on how NASA will proceed in an ambitious program of science that the agency is calling "Origins." "The consensus of the group is that the way NASA is going is the right direction in space sciences," said Gibbons. The meeting with 18 top U.S. scientists, he said, was "to share the wisdom of outstanding people from a variety of perspectives about the importance of modern day astronomy and recent discoveries that relate to the origins of the solar system and the possibility of life on places other than the Earth." Gibbons said the meeting will help Gore and others in the administration to be "more equipped" to make decisions about budgets for NASA and other science agencies. The administration has announced plans for a "Space Summit" meeting in February where a basic program of exploration is to be formulated. Plans for the Space Summit were drawn up after NASA scientists announced in August they had found what they believe to be evidence that life once existed on Mars. Other researchers in recent months have found new planets circling nearby stars, discovered evidence of water on the moon and found new evidence that life, in the form of microbes, is extraordinarily tough and perhaps able to develop in many places in the universe. Some scientists have said it may be possible now, for the first time, to conduct a systematic search for planets elsewhere in the universe where life is possible. NASA has launched two probes toward Mars and already plans to send two more pairs each in 1998 and 2000. One goal is to look for evidence of life on the Red Planet. "Our notion that life is rare may be revised," said Gibbons. "Life may be pervasive in the universe." NASA administrator Dan Goldin, who attended the meeting, said discussions with the scientists pointed out the need to conduct experiments to test the "fundamental underpinnings" of life and how it began. "Our astrobiology (study of extraterrestial life) is woefully underfunded," said Goldin. "We need to understand what could be the fingerprints of extrasolar (beyond the sun) life." Also included in the meeting were two clerics, the Rev. Joan Brown Campbell of the National Religious Partnership for the Environment and the Rev. John P. Minogue, president of DePaul University. Minogue said at a news conference that the race of science to answer basic questions about origins is challenging to religion and to concepts of God. "The role of religion has always been to connect us with our ancestors and all the way back to the origins," he said. Minogue added that society needs both science and religion -- science to gather new understanding and religion to connect "to our roots." "It is a very exciting adventure because of what is being discovered," said Minogue. A statement released by Gore said discussions with the scientists "reinforces how important it is that we continue to pursue the unknown and that we as a nation continue to place a high value on protecting and promoting our scientific enterprise." __________________ AUFORA News Update News, Information, Facts from the world of UFOlogy To subscribe send e-mail to: dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ Helios Science News: http://www.helios.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 19:40:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:38:26 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: rudiak@garnet.berkeley.edu > Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:17:57 -0800 (PST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > Yes, it would have been a very lousy cover story, which would have drawn a > lot of unnecessary attention -- sort of like Roswell base putting out a > captured flying disc story as a cover for a balloon crash. Have you ever considered that the captured flying disc story may have had as its purpose something totally separate from flying discs or balloons? Can you think of a quicker way to bring to the attention of the Russians, re-emphasing that we did indeed have an operational and ready wing capable of delivering atom bombs, the presence of the 509th in every major newspaper in the world without it looking obvious that we were trying to get their attention? I find it interesting that Richard Rhodes discloses in "Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb" that in April, 1947 "in the heat of the burgeoning Cold War, the US had no assembled atomic bombs in stock" and would not have for quite a few months. The only thing we could do at that time was convince the Russians that we were ready and capable. In other words, bluff them into thinking that we could retaliate with atomic bombs should they move in Europe. A dropped story in the New York Times about the 509th would have been too obvious to an already paranoid Russia and could well have backfired and alerted them of a possible ulterior motive for the Americans to be publisizing the 509th. The Roswell flying disc context may well someday turn out to be a total non-event for ufology. It certainly didn't hurt or slow down Blanchard's career any. He went on all the way to make General. True, he was one of General LeMay's favorites and had his patronage, but doesn't the release of the Roswell crashed disc story suggest a lack of good judgement on Blanchard's part in the first place? Especially for a commander of the only atomic bomb wing in the world which we now know had no bullets to fire throughout the last half of 1947 and early 1948? Just food for thought and speculation on my part. The above is rhetorical on my part. > More importantly, Dr. Lincoln La Paz (of N.M. green fireball fame) wrote > an article in the Feb., 1954 issue of the "Astronomical Society of the > Pacific Journal" that astronomer Clyde Tombaugh had undertaken a telescope > search for natural satellites. The La Paz article had nothing to do with Tombaugh. The title of the paper was: "Advances of the Perigees of Earth-Satellites Predicted by General Relativity" and related to a suggestion made by Gilvarry for a possible test of General Relativity. La Paz suggested that a possible better test would be using earth-satellites and placed his speculation into the future by stating: "Irrespective of whether or not satellites may be discovered at small mean distances from the Earth, the present state of satellite-vehicle research certainly justifies the belief that in the not distant future, artificial satellites can be set in motion in prescribed orbits about the Earth." The reference to Tombaugh in La Paz's paper was a footnote to his previous sentence: "That satellites of this sort may exist is strongly suggested by several independent lines of arguments. Furthermore, until extended systematic searches with properly designed equipment have been made at observatories not too far from the equator, failure to discover such bodies can have little significance.*" The footnote: "* Clyde Tombaugh has just informed me that U.S. Army Ordnance Research has agreed to sponsor a search for near-by satellites of the earth with especially designed photographic equipment." La Paz continues in his paper with the mathematics showing his line of argument for inclusion of testing General Relativity using future earth-satellites. That is what his paper was all about. It had nothing to do with Tombaugh, or his efforts. > This prompted a White Sands press release > in March that Tombaugh would be looking for "moonlets" that have gone into > orbit around Earth recently, but are assumed to be natural. [an > impossibility!] Allegedly they were being investigated as possible space > station sites. The White Sands press release was not prompted by La Paz's paper. It was prompted by the reaction of the media to La Paz's footnote in the paper. Also, Dr. La Paz certainly didn't think it was an impossibility for natural objects to be captured in earth orbit. Maybe you know something he didn't back in 1954. Care to elaborate? > Donald Keyhoe claimed that what had really happened was > that new long range radar had picked up two objects going into orbit > around Earth back in 1953. Keyhoe covers this whole subject from his own personal perspective and speculation in the "The Flying Saucer Conspiracy", Chapter 8 "Satellite Search". Must reading. Lots of good stuff on Keyhoe's mindset including the possibility of us "harming" moon men and indiscriminantly starting an interplanetary war based on Zwicki's project. > Keyhoe's allegations are backed up somewhat by a story first reported by > "Aviation Week" magazine on August 23. They claimed that there were two > objects orbiting Earth 400 and 600 miles out, which caused great > consternation in the Air Force during the summer [Twining/Cutler MJ-12 > meeting, July 16???], until the objects were identified by Dr. Lincoln > LaPaz as "natural" (captured meteors) and not artificial objects. This is the Aviation Week "story" which appeared as one paragraph in the "Washington Roundup" column on August 23, 1954: "SATELLITE SCARE Pentagon scare over the observance of two previously unobserved satellites orbiting the earth has dissipated with the identification of the objects as natural, not artificial satellites. Dr. Lincoln La Paz, expert on extraterristrial bodies from the University of New Mexico, headed the identification project. One satellite is orbiting at about 400 mi. out, while the other track is 600 mi. from the earth. Pentagon thought momentarily the Russians had beaten the U.S. to space explorations." Nice for the Russians to be so anti-American during the Cold War era. It provided the perfect cover to hide alleged MJ-12 meetings. After all, that was the 50s and we all know now that it was just "Happy Days" with nothing for our government to worry about except for aliens and keeping MJ-12 out of the headlines. (GRIN) What evidence do you have that there was ever a "Twining/Cutler MJ-12 meeting, July 16"? Inquiring minds would like to know. > In follow-up press stories (e.g., S.F. Chronicle on 8/24 and the N.Y. > Times on 8/24 and 10/10/54) LaPaz, denied that he was involved, though not > specifically denying the truth of the story, stating that the article "was > false in every particular, in so far as reference to me is concerned." It was after all Tombaugh's project. All he did was report that Tombaugh had notified him of the project. But, we all know that the media never gets anything wrong. I don't have the S.F. Chronicle article of 8/24/54, but the NYT article is actually longer than the original Aviation Week paragraph. Interesting that they quote the Aviation Week article as stating "Threw the Air Force into a flap". Their quote marks. I keep looking at the Aviation Week article posted above and I simply can't find that in there. They also state that the Aviation Week publication said "The Air Force had kept Dr. La Paz going back and forth between the missile test center at White Sands, NM, and Palomar Obervatory in California until the objects were identified as meteors..." I keep looking at the Aviation Week paragraph and I don't find that in there either. I guess the NYT times must of had there own reasons for making their version so much longer and interesting than the original piece in Aviation Week. The NYT October 10, 1954 piece is entitled "Scientist Denies Space Base 'Find'" and is quite lenghty. It goes into a lot of detail of what Dr. La Paz's research interests were and the significance of having a space platform in earth orbit in terms of world power and military advantage. > Col. Walker Holler, C/O of the Army Office of Ordnance Research, said the > story was false. OOR was looking for such objects, with the aid of famed > astronomer Clyde Tombaugh, but none had been discovered. An unidentified > source close to the OOR, however, told the Times the story was true and > LaPaz was indeed involved. [N.Y. Times, 8/29/54] La Paz reiterated that > the purpose of the project was to look for natural space platforms. Irrespective of every identifiable source stating that La Paz was not involved, UP misquoting the original Aviation Week article and adding a couple more interesting notes not found in the original, we have this unidentified source "close" to the OOR that still gets quoted. What does "close" mean? He sold pizza outsides the gates?" What is imminently clear is that the media recognized that this story of satellites, whether natural or artificial, was a story they wanted to pursue. And all of the above resulted from La Paz stating in a simple footnote in an obscure scientific journal (my apologies to Eric Green if he is reading this) that Tombaugh advised him of a project that Tombaugh was going to do with the Army. I wonder how the media would have reacted SHOULD some government official hiding his true identity as MJ-12 told the media that they had ACTUALLY recovered a "downed satellite"? I think you made my point clear than I could have. Thank you. > And if one wants to go back even further, ... I don't, but I find this observation interesting. > I would have to agree, except for the media stories of "natural objects" > in orbit around the earth. The "natural satellites" story could have been > used as a cover for a saucer crash. An artificial satellite crash, > however, would have been a poor cover, since none existed in 1954 (unless > Zwicky had secretly succeeded). What are suggesting? That the MJ-12 think tank would have disclosed an alleged "secret program" [for which there is nothing to substantiate it] as a cover for their own MJ-12 operation? Well, not even the fabricators of the hoaxed MJ-12 SOM thought that would fly. Read the SOM over again. > Guess you screwed up, huh Ed? (GRIN) Yup. > >Love can be blinding. > So can wanton, unjustified Friedman bashing. (GRIN) > David Rudiak Last I looked, this thread was entitled "MJ-12 and Area 51", not Friedman. If you wish to start a thread on "Friedman", be my guest. In the meantime, if you wish to serve as an apologist for Friedman's claims, this would be the place to post any arguments you wish to present that you feel would provide his claims a vestige of supportive real evidence. Friedman has yet to provide any himself. He simply keeps ignoring the requests. Don't you think that the many Friedman supporters on this list deserve some tangible evidence to support Friedman's claims that MJ-12 is real? Inquiring minds would like to know. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:06:18 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:43:17 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 17:49:29 -0500 > From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > References: <2.2.32.19961210162900.0070db34@globalserve.net> > Ed, > Before you continue bashing Mr. Friedman, you should know that the SOM > manual has been around since 1994(If memory serves). Lets see.. I get a > paper today.. I publish it 2 years later, boy I'm rushing out and > publishing it before someone else does aren't I? > Regards, > Scott K. Hale I know when Berliner got the SOM and I know when Friedman found out about it and how he got a copy. What makes you think that Stan Friedman got access to the SOM at the same time that it was mailed out to Berliner? The fact is he didn't. The fact is that Friedman only found out about it much later. If I told you why you would only say I am bashing Friedman. You want to know why? Call Berliner. Ed Stewart --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man ------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: egs | shale |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:42:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:47:03 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 In a message dated 96-12-12 03:22:43 EST, you write: << Kevin, Couldn't the facility be located somewhere in the Papoose range? To my knowlege (I have 800+ pages of Area 51 info) not many people were in that area then, or now. Is it possible that the supposed facility was underground? Yet again, was the manual updated since it's initial conception? Just some thoughts. Regards, Scott K. Hale >> We can speculate endlessly about this if we are not constrained by evidence. What the evidence shows is that the location, now known as Area 51 did not exist in 1954. The land was in public hands. If you have any evidence of any sort of secret facility, remembering, of course, that Area 51 is a secret facility yet we are discussing it, then it needs to be presented. If the manual had been updated, then the date on the front of it would have been updated. Remember, the government is not contrained the way a company out to make a profit is constrained. They'd just throw away everything and print a new batch. Therefore, we can conclude that the manual's date of 1954 is accurate, and the reference to Area 51 is anachronistic. It also suggests the manual is bogus and should be eliminated from our discussions. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Hesemann? From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:03:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:30:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Hesemann? > From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Hesemann > Does anyone have the email adress to Michael Hesemann? 100660.3672@compuserve.com is one that I have. Rebecca Search for other documents from or mentioning: houstonsky | west |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Archival Research [Foo Fighters] From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:20:04 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:48:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Archival Research [Foo Fighters] UFO UpDates - Toronto posted: > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:12:31 -0500 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Archival Research > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Dear Jan, > It may assist your project to learn that CAUS did discover a huge batch of > microfilm about a couple of years ago that contained numerous references to > "Foo Fighters" from the logs of US Night Fighter squadrons based in England > during WWII. > Names, places, dates and descriptions - an absolute treasure trove. No more > speculation or theories, the folks back then were plagued by the things and > having safely returned to England from flights over occupied, and later > France after D-Day, everything was meticulously logged in the de-briefing > sessions with the pilots concerned. > Suggest you give them a call! > All the best, > Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] > UFO Magazine > _______________________________________________ Hi Graham Re: FOO-FIGHTER That was just an example used to illustrate the difficulties of finding items at government archives. CAUS approached the problem was: the origin of the term "foo-fighter" was the 415th Night Fighter Squadron (NFS); therefore, look at the 415th NFS unit history which did indeed yeild results. There was, as pointed out, no "foo-fighter" files, however. Jeff Lindell is probably the most knowledgeable person in this area. He has hundreds of hours of taped interviews with World War II aircrews on the subject. Quite by accident we obtained Andy Roberts' "foo-fighter" files. These too contained valuable material. We have also obtained all the operations and intelligence reports and unit histories for all US night fighter squadrons in 1944-5 (except the 6th NFS which has already been screened.) We also have the XX Bomber Command Mission 1945 reports for the Pacific which refer some incidents of "balls of fire." In my article in IUR (see, Nick's OPRTK or CUFOS Home Pages) I quote intelligence documents on daylight "foo-fighters"--the small discs and the "crystal balls." HQ, AAF had denied the knowledge of "crystal ball" foo fighters in a later New York TIMES story. We have prepared a preliminary report on World War II mysteries. Jeff Lindell has submitted an article on his studies, Barry Greenwood on the "Battle of Los Angeles", Anders Liljegern on summaries Overflights 1944 and Overflights 1945 from the Swedish Military archives and also a preliminary chronology from published sources, and I was to submit some of the document in my collection. Hopefully this will still happen. Jan Aldrich, Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Hesemann? From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 07:36:56 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:44:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Hesemann? >Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:56:49 +0100 >From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Hesemann >References: <2.2.32.19961211070512.007549b0@globalserve.net> >Hi all. >Does anyone have the email adress to Michael Hesemann? >Kind regards, Jorgen / WUFOC The last one I have is: 100660.3672@CompuServe.com Ta Ta Drew Williamson Search for other documents from or mentioning: werd | west |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 15:29:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:47:47 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Errol: I am beginning to wonder if Ed Stewart and Kevin Randle haven't been hired by some disinformation outfit to waste my time on the net with some very strange arguments. Let me look at several: 1. Kevin's argument that since Ike would have known about Roswell, as Chief of Staff in 1947, there would have been no need for a preliminary briefing in 1952 as the president elect, is an old and faulted one. It might have held if Ike had remained as Chief of Staff through 1952. But he had already in June, 1947, announced he was stepping down to be tbe President of Colmbia University. He was there for a couple of years and was writing his memoirs as well. Then he spent a couple of years in Europe trying to tie the devastated former enemy nations of Europe into a coalition to resist the Soviets, only coming back to the US around June of 1952 for the Republican convention.As noted in my 108 p. "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12" l990, FUFOR, (available from UFORI, $14. postpaid, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958), he states in "Mandate for Change" p.85, that he was briefed that summer of l952 on National Security matters by W.B.Smith, DCI. Smith in a 2 page Jan.9, l953, letter to Truman notes that he had arranged 4 briefings for Ike during the campaign and 4 after the Nov. 4 election. The entire letter is on pages E-9 and E10 of "Final Report..."Clearly he needed and received briefings on National Security matters after his long time out of the loop. The CIA has been unable to locate anything related to those briefings. 2. I referred to the need for access to classified files re the history of Area 51 and Kevin commented "we do have access to the public records which show no evidence of any secret facility in 1954" . To the best of my knowledge public records are by definition, not classified. How could they show evidence of classified balck matters. The area is, according to one writer the size of Switzerland. A facility for collection, storage, and evaluation of bodies and wreckage need not be the size of Switzerland. Ed Stewart sets a new standard for classification when he stated as repeated by Scott Hale "Before information becomes classified, it is in the public domain and out there". Using Ed's phrase (would I ever say any such thing?) this is "unadulterated poppycock". Many Black Programs are by definition born classified. There were no public domain releases on the Manhattan Project, the city of Los Alamos, the Stealth Fighter, the U-2 etc ad nauseum before they became classified, were there Ed?. 3. I suppose I should appreciate Kevin making me the Rupert Murdoch of the UFO publishing world by twice using the phrase "self published" with regard to my 29 papers on MJ-12 and Roswell not listed in his long list of references in "The Truth about The UFO Crash at Roswell". Sorry Kevin; all 29 were published by someone other than me such as IUR, MUFON J., FATE, UFO Universe, Proceedings of the various MUFON Symposia,etc. I have indeed distributed copies of many of these through UFORI as noted above. Here are 3 self published items "S.E.T.I., Sagan and Science " 27pg., l993;"Roswell Incident, USAF, and the NY Times" 9/26,l994; and, of most direct concern to our discussion, but not included in the 29, "Operation Majestic 12? YES!" 37pages 8/94. Each is only $4.postpaid from UFORI with a special price for all three of only $10.00 postpaid. 4. Ed I hate to tell you this, but JUST CAUS is not a referreed scientific journal. It is a newsletter going to a few hundred people. It has been known to make mistakes about MJ-12. For example, as noted on p.49 of "Final Report..." I pointed out that the December, 1985. JC article stated that the Ike Briefing was classified Top Secret Eyes Only (leaving out MAJIC), was 9 back to back pages, dated Sept. 18, l947 and signed by Truman. It was 8 one sided pages, not signed by anybody, though the TF memo (p.8) was signed by Truman.The date is Nov. 18. for those who think that September might have been a typo, please note that it also stated "Septmber 18, l947 is the birthdate of the CIA! Is it a concidence or a telltale clue to the document being a phoney...."... 5. For Kevin, I am well aware of Dr.Pankratz's comments . Obviously if the Ike or Truman libraries had MJ-12 documents of their own, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That doesn't mean they don't exist. The presidential Archives do NOT get everything from that administration. The regulations about security markings are one thing, the reality is quite another again as I have noted. Dr. Pankratz was also early on in error in some of his coments about the CT memo.. as I reported in Final Report.... Enough of my time. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:37:43 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:44:03 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 17:39:13 -0500 > From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > References: <2.2.32.19961210063851.0068f438@globalserve.net> > > That is unadulterated poppycock! Before information > > becomes classified, it is is the public domain and out > > there. What we call Area 51 was at one time desert of no > > use or value to anyone except to the owners of the Groom Mine > > and it wasn't until 1958 that the > > public was denied access to enter the area. That is a fact > > in the public domain. The air space above it was restricted > > before 1958 dating back to the construction of the facilities > > for the U-2 program in 1955. That is a fact and in the public domain. > > Released information on Area 51 shows conclusively that the > > area called Area 51 relates specifically to the co-ordinates of > > the public land seized in 1958. The first known usage of the term > > area 51 was 1960. What we don't know about Area 51 > > is what post dates the U-2 program, not before. Real people worked > > and lived there and even had photographic coverage of the area in the > > NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC. > > > Proclamations are not the same as evidence. > > > Stan Friedman > > Then provide evidence to support any of your claims related to MJ-12? > > There is zero, zip, nada, zilch in your new book that establishes > > any linkage to MJ-12 as a real program. You are the expert on > > proclamations. Show me that I am wrong by presenting any iota of > > evidence or linkage to support the proclamation that MJ-12 is a real > > program or organization worthy of further inquiry. > > Ed Stewart > Ed, > Please stop the name calling, it makes you look childish. Name calling? How dare I point out arguments devoid of logic, devoid of linkage that completely ignores the existing evidence that the proclamation presented is pure poppycock? How dare I to expect substantive arguments to support a position? How dare I to repeatedly point out that when asked for the evidence that supports the proclamation, none ever is presented? How dare I point out arguments that are nothing more than logical fallacies such as appeal to authority, appeal to the gallery, strawman arguments and the employment of circular logic? How dare I point out the occasions of intellectual dishonesty displayed on this list when they occurred? How dare I not to succumb to the practice of intellectual bullyism? How dare I to point out irrelevant arguments that are nothing more than ruses to avoid the real issues, substantive evidence/lack of substantive evidence? Well, you may be right in that it is probably childish of me to expect the above in the field of ufology. > Yes, there > is plenty of information on the Groom Lake area, even pictures. There is > also undoubtedly lots of classified information on the base at Groom > Lake. Even if those files SHOULD be public domain, I doubt they are > going to happily hand them over thus fueling further rumors/theories. So what? One could argue the above ad nauseum and in the end no progress, no knowledge gained. So what is the point in complaining about what amounts to nothing more than an excuse for lack of evidence to support a belief system? One either changes their belief system, or they admit to themselves that their belief system is what is important and not whether there is any evidence out there to support it. But to present what amounts only to be a belief system in the context that it is based on evidence is nothing but intellectual dishonesty. To present a belief system in the context that it is based on what evidence may be out there should it ever become available is a fallacious argument. To present a belief system in the context that it is based on personal faith is a religion. The point being that if one does not wish to be intellectually dishonest, or illogical, or accept their personal beliefs as a religion, one sticks to the available evidence to base claims on and one continues to search for evidence that can add linkage to the existing evidence that has stood up to critical analysis and modify their claims based on what that new evidence that has stood up to critical analysis has revealed and one stays away from making claims and supporting claims that fall into the categories of intellectual dishonesty, illogical or religious. > Ask yourself this: If MJ-12 exists or existed, do you think they'd just > let some REAL evidence lay around in NARA? Ask yourself this: If MJ-12 existed, where do you think you could find supporting documentation? > If the Lazar story was > real,(I don't think it is) and you wanted your secret kept, wouldn't you > discredit him? Sometimes to make headway it's almost best to think > backwards, become what you're chasing after. Ask yourself this: Why discredit an individual when that individual has no evidence to support their story? What makes a story valid is supporting evidence that is linked from data point to data point and can be independently verified. Don't you find it interesting that folks that have claimed the government discredited them or that claim they are the targets of govenment harassment happen to also be the folks that never had anything but a story to present, stories without genesis/provenance, without linkage, without independent supportable evidence? Ask yourself this: Why is it that folks that have produced more than just a story, evidence with genesis/provenance, with data points that had linkage to them, and stories that were independently verifiable have never been the targets of government discrediting? Example: Barry Greenwood, co-author of "Clear Intent" and one of the principles in the CAUS/NSA lawsuit? I don't know of anyone that has produced more damming evidence that the government hasn't been forthright about UFO phenomena than Barry. Yet, no MIBs have ever bothered him. (GRIN) Ed Stewart --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man ------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: egs | shale |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 18:23:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:35:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Regarding... >Date: 10 Dec 96 18:57:20 EST >From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance Theresa Carlson wrote: <<If such original film existed, I'm sure there are countless individuals, organisations and companies that would offer a blank cheque for it!>> <If such film existed, no one could own it. It would be US Government film and the focus would rapidly shift away from Santilli and to the govt. Once this footage is dated no matter what the year turns out to be, Ray is out of the selling power.> Theresa, There would still be no proof it was US Government film. As you say to Stanton, "There is nothing in this film that ties it to the military or any government organization. So even if it did date to the 40s or any other year, its still a film of something being autopsied". Until the origins can be proven, or the US Government acknowledges ownership, our hypothetical original film would simply be film of unknown provenance, which has been dated to 19whatever. >Something that you may not be aware of is that people here have already claimed this and sold copies of the video on the premise that since it's govt. film they don't have to pay.< I'm aware of this, but we must consider how it equates to the world-wide broadcast and video rights that _were_ received. Roswell Footage Ltd. lost a minuscule percentage of income to people who had the courage of their convictions. Or should that be, people who are currently facing convictions. >Santilli was paid his fee for broadcast rights, and he has all he will make on the footage that has been released. He still has hopes of making some money on the cameraman interview and probably some other footage that he has. If the mystery were removed now, he wouldn't be able to make anything one these things.< If the supposed film existed and was authenticated as dating from 1947, it would surely only enhance the value of the "cameraman interview" as a saleable commodity. Same with all of the footage. As merchandise, which is all that Ray Santilli and associates seem to be treating it as, it's even more marketable than before. The OMNI on-line interview with Bob Kiviat, now available on their web site, is an interesting insight into the marketing of the "Roswell" footage and the "cameraman". Well worth a look for those who haven't seen it. James. Internet; 100626.2242@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Hesemann? From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:09:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:45:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Hesemann? Regarding... >Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:56:49 +0100 >From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> >Subject: Hesemann Jorgen Westman asked: >Does anyone have the email adress to Michael Hesemann?< Jorgen, It's: 100660.3672@compuserve.com James. Internet; 100626.2242@compuserve.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: 100626.2242 | west |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:06:10 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:36:04 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: KRandle993@aol.com > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:29:56 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > I think we all agree that the evidence exists to suggest that Wright Field > was a primary destination for the materials recovered at Roswell. But there > is also evidence that other facilities received some of it incluidng Los > Alamos and Lowry in Denver. That goes against all we know regarding crash recovery operational procedures. When an airplane crashes, the recovered material is taken to one site only, laid out systematically so that there is an opportunity to reconstruct the crashed vehicle and hopefully help to determine what caused the crash. You don't take the crashed remnants to separate geographically dispersed areas. I think any evidence suggesting that the crashed recovered material was taken to separate locations should be regarded as highly suspect. That is not the way that crashed airplanes are handled. Why would it be different for something unknown in 1947? > The Operations Manual is bogus because it refers to an installation that > didn't exist in 1954. Ed Stewart has also pointed out that using returning > artificial satellites as a cover story in 1954 wouldn't have worked because > no one was launching them in 1954. Two huge mistakes that prove the manual > bogus. Even though the context of the SOM suggests that the suggested cover story implied an artificial satellite, it really makes no difference whether the cover story would be related to an artificial satellite or a natural satellite. Any mention of a "downed satellite" would not have kept the media away. As shown by David Rudiak in another post, the media was highly interested in the subject. The mere mention by La Paz as a footnote in a scientific journal that Clyde Tombaugh had informed him that he was involved in searching for natural earth-orbiting satellites not only produced medial attention, but also a lot of speculation and alarmism in the media. Now, should a government agency come out and say that they had "recoved" a satellite, what do you think the media would have done? Stayed away? I don't think so. Such a cover story would have created a myriad of complications for any alleged operation that wanted to remain out of sight. The inclusion of "downed satellite" as a cover story in the SOM shows an incredible amount of naivety on the part of the alleged MJ-12 think tank. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Historical File - Kecksburg 'UFO Crash' From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:46:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:49:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Historical File - Kecksburg 'UFO Crash' Regarding... >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 09:51:45 cst >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Historical File - Kecksburg 'UFO Crash' Vince Johnson wrote: >The American spacecraft analogies you offer don't work -- all these craft deployed multiple parachutes in addition to relatively soft ocean-landing splashdowns. Not only is there no report of parachute deployment in the Kecksburg incident, nobody described the wreckage as fragmented, charred debris, that it most certainly would have been if it had been any type of man-made spacejunk.< Vince, I have to weigh up the fact that the failed COSMOS 96 satellite seems to fit the profile - even down to apparent first hand testimonies of the object's size, very distinctive shape and inscribed bumper - against speculation that it may not have survived such an impact. I don't really see any evidence that it couldn't possibly have been the COSMOS 96 satellite. If it wasn't, I haven't seen any credible evidence being offered for an alternative source, or an explanation of why that alternative source was apparently so similar to the COSMOS 96 satellite. James. Internet; 100626.2242@compuserve.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: 100626.2242 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 03:44:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:29:06 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' >Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 07:47:27 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' >References: <2.2.32.19961211134607.006f6e54@globalserve.net> John Powell writes, >You being a human being isn't a problem <grin>. Generous of you. >simply by the force of your emotional presentation. I guess you read into it what you wish. >long before EBK and this List and you ever happenned - I collected >that kind of evidence quite a long time ago. I'm on my knees in an Islamic bow John. >Are you so important and central to the abduction phenomenon that you >have to be a personal part of the research and evidence? Duh, I would think that "abductees" [are] central to "abduction" research. Again, you choose to bait and insult rather than discuss. I could just as easily ask (you) the same question! >You don't _know_, you have a set of personal experiences that >are completely real to you. Yes! (?) >You seem preoccupied with a quest to cause people to consider it >possible that you were abducted by aliens. Misinterpretation. Or maybe just the _only_ interpretation that you are capable of where (I'm) concerned. >No, I don't call it support and I hope you're not here seeking or >hoping for any theraputic assistance as this is the wrong group of >people and the wrong venue for such. I'm not,... and says you. > Perhaps you aren't capable of being impartial or impersonal or objective R U ? >I know its difficult to be impartial, impersonal and objective but you >could at least try to fake it for the benefit of others here. Maybe you >could just pretend you understand. Pure arrogance and condescension. >Instead, we have (yet again) your assumption-based out-of-control >emotional tantrums that only serve to embarass you. I like the "we" touch. It's cute. And safe! What's the use in talking John? It'd be a [complete] waste of time. Trying to talk to you is like throwing crap into a fan. It just ALWAYS seems to get messy. Good luck in your efforts. Peace. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Wormwood? From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:51:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:55:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? At 02:42 AM 12/13/96 -0500, UFO UpDates - Toronto posted: >From: HoustonSky@aol.com >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:49:00 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) >Subject: Wormwood? Rebecca, Thanks for passing this gem along. Truly, a magnificent load of ca-ca from (surprise!) an "anonymous source." Speaking of used food, get a load of this HB silliness appearing in the Dec 3, 1996 Phoenix Project (Hatonn) "Contact" newsletter with their banner headline: "The Imminent Return Of Herculobus-Nibiru" ..also known as "Comet" Hale-Bopp. Geez..it MUST be Millenial Fever setting in. Don ================================================================== >Posted on the Art Bell website... http://www.artbell.com > >From: Name@Withheld >To: artbell@aol.com >Date: 96-12-11 00:33:29 EST ... > > I had found a direct link-up to the Hubble space telescope. Not only >that, but it was pointed directly at the comet Hale-Bopp. The program was >running some kind of analysis. Taking directional notes, projecting path of >travel, etc. After realizing what I had discovered, I started searching and >came across an e-mail data trail that led directly to the office of the Pope >himself. What was discussed, I cannot know. ... > I found out about a week later through some old friends and contacts >that a contract had been placed on my life. Two days later my mother and >father were killed in a car crash in France. Three days after that, my >brother and sister were killed when their single engine plane went down on > --- Ho Ho Ho...Christmas is only a few weeks away. :-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:14:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:54:57 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Just a minor point, but in a dispute I'm definitely not getting into Dave Rudiak wrote > > Col. Walker Holler, C/O of the Army Office of Ordnance Research, said the > > story was false. OOR was looking for such objects, with the aid of famed > > astronomer Clyde Tombaugh, but none had been discovered. An unidentified > > source close to the OOR, however, told the Times the story was true and > > LaPaz was indeed involved. [N.Y. Times, 8/29/54] La Paz reiterated that > > the purpose of the project was to look for natural space platforms. And Ed Stewart asked: > Irrespective of every identifiable source stating that La Paz was not > involved, UP misquoting the original Aviation Week article and adding a > couple more interesting notes not found in the original, we have this > unidentified source "close" to the OOR that still gets quoted. What does > "close" mean? He sold pizza outsides the gates?" > "Close to" is journalist-ese for someone who's part of the organization but doesn't want to be identified. When there's a reference to someone close to a named individual, then the quote very likely comes from that individual. For instance, if the New York Times reports that someone "close to the President" said something, the quote very likely comes from the President, speaking not for attribution. Behind this practice is a game that goes on between journalists and sources. It's especially prevalent in Washington, but I've played it myself in the music business. You interview someone for publication, and they may very well place their remarks in three different categories, "on the record," "not for attribution," and "off the record." On the record means you can quote them by name. Off the record means you can't quote them at all. Not for attribution is the most interesting of the three -- it means you <can> use the quote, but you can't pin it on the person who said it! Very commonly, I'd be interviewing a record company president who'd say some things for publication, and other things -- usually the most revealing stuff -- not. So then I'd bargain. Could any of it be printed, not for attribution? If so, I'd have the president of Mercury Records saying things with his name attached, and then "a source close to Mercury" saying other, much more interesting stuff. (The <most> interesting things, of course, I couldn't print at all.) In Washington, as I said, this is a manic sport, due to the common practice of people advancing their careers or political agendas by leaking information. The leaks, of course, are always anonymous. Everybody needs to appear well-behaved in public. But if you see an interview with Clinton with a few juicy quotes attributed to "a source close to the President," the likelihood is that Clinton said them and wanted them printed, but just didn't want his name attached. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:55:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:56:32 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 In a message dated 96-12-13 02:39:12 EST, Ed Stewart wrote: << That goes against all we know regarding crash recovery operational <procedures. When an airplane crashes, the recovered material is taken to <one site only, laid out systematically so that there is an opportunity <to reconstruct the crashed vehicle and hopefully help to determine what <caused the crash. You don't take the crashed remnants to separate <geographically dispersed areas. I think any evidence suggesting that the <crashed recovered material was taken to separate locations should be <regarded as highly suspect. That is not the way that crashed airplanes <are handled. Why would it be different for something unknown in 1947? >> I should have made this clearer. One of the bodies went to Lowry because, at the time, Lowry housed the Army mortuary service and they were supposedly looking at the best ways of perserving without altering. An I-beam was eventually shown to a Dr. Lytle, who was an expert in codes. I suppose they thought he might figure something out from the symbols, but we're dealing with a new language and not a code so I don't see what they expected him to do. Later, much later, material was sent out to take a look at the material, with an eye on figuring it out. All this is long after the fact, and not that it, meaning the wreckage was scattered to the wind. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 OMNI On the Internet (Dec. 15 - 21) From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 18:38:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:54:09 -0500 Subject: OMNI On the Internet (Dec. 15 - 21) --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: OMNI On the Internet (Dec. 15 - 21) Date: 96-12-13 18:09:00 EST From: OMNI Chat O M N I On the Internet http://www.omnimag.com <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<= To attend chats, click on the text highlighting the chat near the bottom of the OMNI on the Internet home page. ========================== If you'd like to stop receiving this newsletter, click on "Reply," type STOP, and click on "Send." We'll remove you from our mailing list immediately. This Week's Online Features, Chats and Surveys! <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<= Alt.Med! With today's rising costs more patients are turning to virtual medical information for their health care. We have some sage advice to offer about medicine via the net and some of the best connections you can find on the web at... http://www.omnimag.com/columns/alt_med/ <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Sunday <=*= December 15, 1996 <=*= 10:00 PM ET LIVE: In the INFINITIES Chat: Phillip Shabecoff, veteran environmentalist and author of A New Name For Peace, discusses International Environmentalism and Democracy. <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Monday <=*= December 16, 1996 <=*= 9 PM ET Live In E-Media: OMNI chats with Bob Bejan, executive producer of the Microsoft Network, on the mega-company's next moves. <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=< ===== <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<= UFO Activist Defense Fund! John Ford, a radical UFO activist, hasn't been abducted lately but he has been arrested. Read about his legal difficulties and how his friends are trying to help him at ... http://www.omnimag.com/antimatter/12_96/3.html <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Tuesday <=*= December 17, 1996 <=*= 10 PM ET Live In Our High Strangeness Chat: Ingo Swann, renowned for his work in remote viewings, discusses martian apparitions and what their messages mean for mankind. Stay tuned for our OPEN CHAT from 11 PM -MIDNIGHT ET. <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=< ===== <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<= IN the BRAIN, the PAIN'S MAINLY the SAME Though some pain may still be only in your mind, scientists can now see what it feels like when you burn a finger or freeze your nose. Have a look at what makes you go "Ow!" at ... http://www.omnimag.com/continuum/ <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Wednesday <=*= December 18, 1996 <=*= 9 PM ET LIVE in Breakthrough Medicine: Chair of the department of molecular biology at the University of Washington, Dr. Lee Hood, chats about the marriage of computers and biology in the Human Genome Project. <=<=<=<=<= ===== <=<=<=<=<= ======== Thursday <=*= December 19, 1996 <=*= 10 PM ET LIVE in our OMNIVisions Chat: She takes horror to a new level! Join Poppy Z. Brite as she discusses her recent book Exquisite Corpse. <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Friday <=*= December 20, 1996 <=*= 10 PM ET LIVE in our Brainstorms Chat: Clinical Psychologist Joni Johnston teaches us how to love the way we look. <=<=<=<=<= ===== <=<=<=<=<= ======== TURN THOSE DULL SATURDAY NIGHTS AROUND! Join OMNI's thought-provoking OPEN CHATS on the future of science, culture, and technology. Every Saturday night at 10:00pm ========================== O M N I On the Internet http://www.omnimag.com <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 More news from Moriches Bay, Long Island From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:01:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:25:49 -0500 Subject: More news from Moriches Bay, Long Island Swiped from Forteana list FBI says flare near Kennedy likely a meteorite NEW YORK (Reuter) - The green flare-like light seen by a Saudi airlines crew Thursday near the flight path of doomed TWA Flight 800 was most likely a meteor shower, the FBI said Friday. FBI agents interviewed the crew because one of the theories of what caused the TWA crash is that it could have been brought down by a missile. The Paris-bound Boeing 747 crashed offshore minutes after taking off from Kennedy airport July 17, killing all 230 people on board. The cause of the crash has not yet been determined and investigators believe other possibilities were a bomb or mechanical failure. ``We have spoken to meteorologists who said they were expecting heavy meteor activity for a couple of days that would in fact be reaching its peak today,'' a spokesman for James Kallstrom, head of the FBI's New York office, said. ``The best we could determine is that would be the likely explanation,'' the spokesman said. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said Thursday that the crew of the 747, flying at about 12,000 feet , spotted the green flare while making its approach to Kennedy at about 6 a.m. EST. The FAA said, however, that the pilot did not feel the plane was in jeopardy and simply reported it as a ``sighting.'' The plane traveled on to Washington's Dulles International Airport. In November, a co-pilot of a Pakistan International Airlines plane on a flight path similar to that of the doomed TWA jetliner also reported seeing a mysterious streak of light in the sky after taking off from New York. The FBI said that the most likely explanation for that incident was a meteor shower.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 00:58:17 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:27:28 -0500 Subject: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 >> Sorry, it doesn't work that way. This is what they should have done >> *first*, before hyping the story. > >I agree. > >Rebecca >> You wouldn't agree if you had stock holdings in Mead Telescope Co. :) ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Saudi Jetliner Encounters UFO Over Long Island From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:13:01 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:28:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Saudi Jetliner Encounters UFO Over Long Island To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Saudi Jetliner Encounters UFO Over Long Island >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:56:45 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Saudi Jetliner Encounters UFO Over Long Island >Hi, EBK! > > Here we go again! At 6:40 p.m. this evening, Thursday, December 12, >CNN reported that a Saudi jetliner encountered a UFO over Moriches >Bay on the southern short of Long Island. The encounter reportedly >happened at 6 a.m., shortly after the plane's takeoff from Kennedy >International Airport. The pilot described the UFO as "a greenish >white light with a long tail." The FBI reportedly debriefed the Saudi >flight crew when they arrived at their destination, Dulles International >Airport outside Washington, D.C. at 7:30 a.m. I'll send more details >as they become available. I just pulled this from the CNN page at http://www.cnn.com/US/9612/12/briefs.pm/saudi.html Does anybody know about this supposed "meteor shower" that keeps resulting in people seeing green streaks outside Kennedy airport? This is the second one since the TWA incident!!!! I can't find my Dec. "Astronomy" magazine, but I think the Geminids already peaked, did they not? _____________ FBI probes reported sighting off New York coast December 12, 1996 Web posted at: 11:50 p.m. EST NEW YORK (CNN) -- A Saudi Arabian Airlines crew reported sighting a bright greenish object streaking by their plane as it approached Kennedy Airport Thursday morning. The FBI investigated the report for clues in the still-unsolved crash of TWA Flight 800, but found nothing "of great concern." The possibility that a missile brought down the TWA Flight 800 is still being considered by crash investigators, despite lack of physical evidence. The Saudi jetliner, like the TWA plane, was a Boeing 747. It was approaching Kennedy airport at about 12,000 feet when the object appeared on radar. At least one crew member saw the object from the cockpit window for about two seconds. The FBI said the sighting can probably be attributed to a meteor shower under way.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Archival Research [Foo Fighters] From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:37:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:26:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Archival Research [Foo Fighters] UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:20:04 -0800 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Archival Research/Foo Fighters > References: <2.2.32.19961212082712.006c2910@globalserve.net> > Hi Graham > Re: FOO-FIGHTER > That was just an example used to illustrate the difficulties of > finding items at government archives. CAUS approached the problem was: > the origin of the term "foo-fighter" was the 415th Night Fighter Squadron > (NFS); therefore, look at the 415th NFS unit history which did indeed > yeild results. There was, as pointed out, no "foo-fighter" files, > however. > Jeff Lindell is probably the most knowledgeable person in this area. He > has hundreds of hours of taped interviews with World War II aircrews on > the subject. > Quite by accident we obtained Andy Roberts' "foo-fighter" files. These > too contained valuable material. > We have also obtained all the operations and intelligence reports and > unit histories for all US night fighter squadrons in 1944-5 (except the > 6th NFS which has already been screened.) We also have the XX Bomber > Command Mission 1945 reports for the Pacific which refer some incidents > of "balls of fire." > In my article in IUR (see, Nick's OPRTK or CUFOS Home Pages) I quote > intelligence documents on daylight "foo-fighters"--the small discs and > the "crystal balls." HQ, AAF had denied the knowledge of "crystal ball" > foo fighters in a later New York TIMES story. > We have prepared a preliminary report on World War II mysteries. Jeff > Lindell has submitted an article on his studies, Barry Greenwood on the > "Battle of Los Angeles", Anders Liljegern on summaries Overflights 1944 > and Overflights 1945 from the Swedish Military archives and also a > preliminary chronology from published sources, and I was to submit some > of the document in my collection. Hopefully this will still happen. > Jan Aldrich, Project 1947 Jan I was wondering if you were familiar with Ivan Sanderson's material on what should also be listed under the rubric of "foo fighters" which he describes in his book Uninvited Visitors chapter II page 19-22. During WWII he served as a British counter-intelligence agent in the Carribean and describes a British army units' ground engagement in Curacao with an object which later took off into the sky. It perfectly fits the description of a foo fighter. I'd love to see the intelligence report on this, he dates it to just before the invasion of Holland. He also personally had a experince with such an object and reported it through his own intelligence channels, yet he states that he was told to desist by his intelligence HQ from reporting aerial green lights. This was a most peculiar request "from the absolute top chaps of my service in London". Unless of course they had a handle on it already or were pursuing the investigation by other means. The absence, at least in the literature I have seen to date, of what I would term an appropriate investigation and analysis on the part of the military and intelligence agencies during WWII, of this phenomenon in its varied manifestations is peculiar to say the least. I have a particular interest in this subject. I would appreciate if you could let me know when and where your manuscript will be published. Thanks, Gary Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | jan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 12:09:50 cst Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:11:12 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' John Powell wrote: >I think it would be an interesting idea to have all abductees perform an >IdentiKit. Such a process would be close to singularly objective. I personally don't think uniformity of entity descriptions by abductees necessarily proves anything. For instance, if a random group of people were asked to use an Identikit to create a likeness of Santa Claus (in the holiday spirit), I suspect that there would be a fairly high degree of uniformity in the results -- even though there is no single "accurate" portrait of this imaginary character. Since there is such undeniable cultural consciousness of the archetypal "gray" aliens (based on publicized abductee descriptions), I suspect that any random group of Identikit-equipped test subjects asked to provide a picture of what aliens look like would undoubtedly provide a fairly uniform portrait of the classic "gray" aliens. In short, cultural contamination of abduction lore through widespread media exposure has rendered uniform entity descriptions by self-proclaimed abductees useless as evidence for the phenomenon. Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Skywatch: WANTED: files/info related to Leonard From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:11:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:31:06 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: WANTED: files/info related to Leonard ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 00:28:56 -0800 To: skywatch@wic.net From: Michael Bessee <bessee@spiritone.com> Subject: WANTED: files/info related to Leonard Stringfield research for privately funded Public Cable Access program related to the UFO phenomenon needs a bio or related files regardinf the life and times of Leonard Stringfield and his involvement in the UFO community. Please forward any relevant files/info to: bessee@spiritone.com Tnaks, MB *************************************************************** ** * This message originates from UFO Online BBS - Portland, OR, USA* *************************************************************** ** ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Editors choice award for IF website From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:09:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:09:38 -0500 Subject: Editors choice award for IF website ebk ___________________________________________ To: updates@globalserve.net From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Subject: Editors choice award for IF website Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:35:51 -0500 Hi Errol, Just wanted to share this, it's really nice to get recognition from ones own peers. It was a ton of hard work to create the IF website and it's gratifying to have that work acknowledged. John ------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:15:00 -0800 X-Sender: alkiguy1@popd.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) From: Glen Boyd <alkiguy1@ix10.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Hopkins Site is my Millennium Matters editors choice Hey John. Haven't talked to you in awhile and I've got some good news. I have chosen your site as my "Editors Choice" for the Millennium Matters e-zine "Oracle". We do this every two months for the Oracle zine...each topic page editor (there are five of us...my "UFOrmation" page is part of the larger Millennium Matters site) picks his favorite. Anyway, you'll find my review up on MM's Oracle. To get there, go to my site from your own links page and click on the Oracle icon at the bottom of the page. There is also a "MM editors choice" award there which you can add to your page if desired. http://www.m-m.org/~jz/oracle.html Glen jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:30:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:30:13 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' >No, I don't call it support and I hope you're not here seeking or >hoping for any theraputic assistance as this is the wrong group of >people and the wrong venue for such. John, This venue is for the study of UFO related phenomena - all of them. If theraputic assistance is part of the study then so be it. Please try not to restrict the parameters here. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Are there habitable moons around extrasolar Jovian From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 07:25:41 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:08:50 -0500 Subject: Are there habitable moons around extrasolar Jovian Forwarded message: To: seti@mailbase.ac.uk From: Larry Klaes <LarryK@Microsys.com> Subject: Are there habitable moons around extrasolar Jovian planets? Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:37:24 -0500 Sender: seti-request@mailbase.ac.uk From: Larry Klaes <LarryK@Microsys.com>, on 12/12/96 5:22 PM: To: Andy, Bill, Chip, Corenna, David, Donc, Drew, Jeff, Lynn, Mark, Roland, Roxanne, SK, Tom Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC December 12, 1996 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Mary Beth Murrill Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 96-255 BIG ICY MOON OF JUPITER FOUND TO HAVE A 'VOICE' AFTER ALL; EUROPA FLYBY NEXT FOR GALILEO Jupiter's big moon Ganymede is not only the size of a planet -- it sounds like one too, as heard in audio recordings made from data returned by NASA's Galileo spacecraft released today. Characterized by a soaring whistle and hissing static, Ganymede's song reveals that the Solar System's largest moon is also the only one known to possess a planet-like, self- generated magnetic cocoon called a magnetosphere, which shields the moon from the magnetic influence of its giant parent body, Jupiter. Published in the scientific journal Nature this week, these new Galileo findings and other measurements from several Galileo sensors were presented today in a news briefing held at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. Taken together, scientists say the new Ganymede findings are painting a portrait of a body that from the inside out closely resembles a planet like Earth rather than other moons in the Solar System. "The data we get back is in the form of a spectrogram, and reading it is kind of like looking at a musical score," said Dr. Donald Gurnett, University of Iowa physicist and principal investigator on Galileo's plasma wave instrument. It was his experiment that first detected the telltale signals of a magnetosphere during the spacecraft's close flybys of that moon on June 27 and Sept. 6. Gurnett said the unique pattern of frequencies his instrument detected is characteristic of a magnetosphere and closely matches his previous studies of the magnetospheres of Earth, Saturn and Jupiter. "The instant I saw the spectrogram, I could tell we had passed through a magnetosphere at Ganymede," Gurnett said. Describing the electromagnetic wave activity that his experiment detected at Ganymede, Gurnett said the approach to the large moon was relatively quiet, "until all of a sudden, there's a big burst of noise that signals the entry into Ganymede's magnetosphere. Then, for about 50 minutes, we detected the kinds of noises that are typical of a passage through a magnetosphere. As we exited the magnetosphere, there was another big burst of noise." Gurnett checked with Dr. Margaret Kivelson of the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA), principal investigator for the magnetometer experiment on the spacecraft. Kivelson confirmed the detection of a large increase in magnetic field strength near Ganymede. Related data from the two close flybys have confirmed that Ganymede has a magnetic field of its own. Using extremely precise data from tracking the spacecraft, investigators on Galileo's celestial mechanics team also have been able to confirm that Ganymede's interior is differentiated, probably having a three-layer structure. "These data show clearly that Ganymede has differentiated into a core and mantle, which is in turn enclosed by an ice shell," said JPL planetary scientist Dr. John Anderson, team leader on the Galileo radio science experiment. "Combined with the discovery of an intrinsic magnetic field, our gravity results indicate that Ganymede has a metallic core about 250 to 800 miles in," said Anderson. "This is surrounded by a rocky silicate mantle, which is in turn enclosed by an ice shell about 500 miles thick. Depending on whether the core is pure iron or an alloy of iron and iron sulfide, it could account for as little as 1.4 percent or as much as one-third of the total mass of Ganymede." This differentiated structure is the most likely cause of Ganymede's newly discovered magnetic field, which in turn gives rise to the magnetosphere, reported UCLA geophysicist Dr. Gerald Schubert, an interdisciplinary investigator on Galileo's science team. Scientists suspect Ganymede's magnetic field is generated the same way as Earth's, through the dynamo action of the fluid mantle rotating above a metallic core. The only other solid bodies in the Solar System known to have magnetic fields are Mercury, Earth and possibly Jupiter's volcanic moon Io. "At Ganymede, the magnetic field is strong enough to carve out a magnetosphere with clearly defined boundaries within Jupiter's magnetosphere, making it the only 'magnetosphere within a magnetosphere' known in the Solar System," Kivelson said. The strong magnetic characteristics of Ganymede, in combination with its residence within Jupiter's powerful magnetosphere, make the Jovian environment even more intriguing, said Galileo project scientists Dr. Torrence V. Johnson. "The physics taking place within Jupiter's magnetosphere are of great interest to scientists attempting to understand the complex interplay of magnetic forces and matter throughout the universe," he said. Data from the plasma wave instrument can be heard and seen on the Galileo home page at the following URL: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo Newly received Galileo images of Jupiter's moon Callisto and one of Europa also were released at the briefing. Scientists were surprised by the lack of small craters visible in the images. Some small craters appear to have been softened or modified by downslope movement of debris, revealing ice-rich surfaces. Galileo's next moon encounter occurs Dec. 18-19, when the spacecraft makes its first close approach to Europa, the moon thought to harbor a liquid ocean beneath its icy surface. Results from that flyby will be radioed to Earth starting in the last half of December through early February. The Europa image received from the spacecraft earlier this week shows the cracked surface of this moon in greater detail than it has been seen before. The new image shows an area 150 miles by 140 miles that has been highly disrupted by fractures and ridges. Arizona State University planetary scientist Dr. Kelly Bender of Galileo's imaging team said that symmetric ridges in the dark bands suggest that Europa's surface crust was separated and filled with darker material, somewhat analogous to spreading centers in the ocean basins of Earth. Although some impact craters are visible, their general absence indicates a youthful surface, she said. The youngest ridges, such as the two features that cross the center of the picture, have central fractures, aligned knobs, and irregular dark patches. These and other features could indicate cryovolcanism, or processes related to eruption of ice and gases. Galileo was launched in 1989 and entered orbit around Jupiter Dec. 7, 1995. The Galileo mission is managed by JPL for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:52:14 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:34:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 >Art on the other hand appears to be sticking to the Hale Bopp is weird and >has a giant something with it. On the OTHER other hand, last time I checked, Art also had a still of the monster from the 1960 film "The Angry Red Planet" on his website--billed as a "possible picture of the chupacabras." Bruce W. Watching the skies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Abduction Question From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 13:54:14 cst Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:11:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction Question John Velez wrote: >Jorgen, the connection that you're trying to make here, (military >involvement in abductions) is to me, on the face of it a complete >impossibility. They could NEVER get away with it. >Aside from the fact that 'someone' would have 'talked' long before now, >the logistics of such a broad scale operation would require large >numbers of personel and materials to accomplish. >Example: personel. Let's say that you manage to recruit a few psychotics >that are willing to help you kidnap citizens (and) keep their loyal mouths >shut about it. Then I assume that you propose that these humans are either >carrying out the abductions in conjunction with the aliens, or... by >themselves, using 'alien technology' ie; flying saucers. >Then we multiply this number in order to reach the minimum required to >conduct hundreds or thousands of these abductions. Do you see where I'm >going with this Jorgen? It's just physically impossible. They would have >to employ so many people that someone somewhere would have blown the >whistle on it ages ago. Even if only to make a few bucks on the lecture >circuit! <G> >I would believe that [some folks], [here and there] have been snatched in >the night by operatives of some intelligence group or other for monitoring >purposes, or to see if they can add information to their alien technology >database. (I believe something like that happened to my friend Debbie >Jordan, from "Intruders") But I don't for a minute think that its possible >to pull something like that off of a large scale. It would involve too >many people, that, in itself would be its major weakness and prove to be >the source of its downfall. It would just become too "messy" and >cumbersome an operation. Hi John, The same logistical problem you describe (excluding the need for "human" secrecy) would be just as applicable to the "alien abduction" scenario, wouldn't it? While any hypothetical alien supertechnology may be impressively dependable, I can't conceive of even advanced alien technology totally overcoming the ironclad principles of Murphy's Law. Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Early Results From ISO From: <awyn@cybercom.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 08:26:26 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:31:51 -0500 Subject: Early Results From ISO ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 22:00:54 -0500 From: LKlaes@aol.com Reply-To: seti@mailbase.ac.uk To: seti@mailbase.ac.uk Subject: Fwd: Early Results From ISO --------------------- Forwarded message: From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Sender: SEDSNEWS@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU (News about Space from SEDS) Reply-to: SEDSNEWS@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU (News about Space from SEDS) To: SEDSNEWS@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU (Multiple recipients of list SEDSNEWS) Date: 96-12-11 17:34:05 EST European Space Agency Paris, France 28 November 1996 PRESS INFORMATION NOTE Nr. 21-96 Enthusiasm for Europe's space telescope ISO A special issue of the journal Astronomy and Astrophysics, published in the latter part of November 1996, is devoted to early results from the European Space Agency's Infrared Space Observatory. Ninety-one scientific papers tell of unprecedented inspections of the cool universe and its hidden corners, as ISO and its four excellent instruments rewrite the astronomical textbooks. "Are the most luminous galaxies powered by extreme rates of star formation, or do they harbour black-hole-powered active nuclei as well?" Scientists lead by Reinhard Genzel at Max Planck Institut fur extra terrestrische Physik in Garching, Germany, have used ISO's Short Wavelength Spectrometer to give an answer. Writing in the London journal Nature, an independent commentator, Gerry Gilmore of the Institute of Astronomy in Cambridge, considers that their papers in Astronomy and Astrophysics give a clear answer to this question. The "remarkable result" according to Gilmore is that none of three ultra-luminous infrared galaxies studied by ISO requires an active nucleus to account for the emissions, which arise from rapid star formation. About another ISO target Gilmore writes: "In one lovely example, of two intersecting disk galaxies known as the Antennae, it is even possible to resolve the spot where the two disks currently cross, and to see the progression of star formation across the disk as the two galaxies orbit through each other." (Nature, 21 November 1996, p. 211) One year after its launch, ISO is exceptionally popular among astronomers, not only in Europe but worldwide. A panel of American astronomers, reporting to NASA on the scientific merits of eight astrophysical space missions, gives ISO the highest ranking and calls it "the major infrared mission of the decade". At a time when NASA is reducing its budgets for some astrophysical missions, its funding of ISO-related research is increasing. The demand for a share in ISO's unique view of the infrared universe is insatiable. ESA has been overwhelmed by new proposals for observations, coming from 511 groups of astronomers in ESA's own Member States and in the USA and Japan. Although ISO is extremely efficient, performing an average of 45 observations a day, it could not cope with 16,000 observations requested as additions to ISO's already busy programme for 1997. The time allocation committee has had to turn down 75 per cent of the proposed observations. Nevertheless the allocations announced this month will meet the wishes of most groups of applicants at least in part. ISO is now about half way through its operating life. An Ariane 44P launcher put it into orbit on 17 November 1995. ISO's superfluid helium which keeps the telescope and instruments cold, will last about six months longer than required in the specification. Operations are expected to continue until December 1997, with the benefit that the chemically rich and starmaking clouds of the important Orion region of the sky will be observable by ISO. Tracing the origin of planets Observations of the Antennae galaxies, and some of the other ISO results now described in full technical detail in Astronomy and Astrophysics, were outlined in earlier ESA Information Notes, 02-96 and 14-96. These include examinations of star formation in many galaxies and within dust clouds in our own Galaxy, the Milky Way. ISO has also given a big boost to astrochemistry by identifying infrared signatures of many materials, which play a physical as well as a chemical role in the evolution of galaxies and stars. The materials seen by ISO include ionized carbon atoms, sooty carbon compounds, hydrogen molecules, water molecules, and frozen carbon dioxide and methane. The latest results tell of mineral crystals, which may shed light on the origin of the Earth itself. Disks of dust around some stars, of the kind from which planets might evolve, were a major discovery in infrared astronomy by ISO's predecessor, the Dutch US UK satellite IRAS (1983). The prototype was the bright northern star Vega. It showed excess emissions of long-wavelength infrared rays, which could not come from the star itself. Subsequent studies confirmed the dust disks of Vega and a few other stars, and the search for more such disks is a major programme for ISO, relying particularly on measurements by the photometer ISOPHOT across a wide range of infrared wavelengths. Several new candidate Vega-like dust disks are reported in Astronomy and Astrophysics by Harm Habing of Leiden in the Netherlands, and his colleagues. Their preliminary conclusion is that the dust disks are a common feature of ordinary stars as massive as the Sun or heavier, but they are by no means ubiquitous. Further measurements on Vega itself show relatively low emissions at the longest wavelengths, which implies that the dust grains are small. In a related programme, a Belgian-led team has used ISO's Short-Wavelength Spectrometer to probe the composition of dust near very young stars. It reports the discovery of crystals of olivine, a silicate mineral and a major constituent of the Earth's own rocky mantle. The firm detection of olivine crystals builds a bridge from the stars to the minerals of the solar system. Most mineral grains in interstellar space lack the crystalline forms of common minerals, even if they have the same chemical composition. Hints of infrared emissions from olivine crystals, detected by ground-based telescopes at around 11 microns wavelength, are confused by emissions coming also from carbon compounds. ISO, with its unhampered view at longer wavelengths, sees signatures of magnesium-rich olivine crystals at 20, 24 and 34 microns. The minerals crystallize when gravity concentrates them near a young star, and intense radiation from the star modifies the grains. ISO also sees similar materials in the dust shells of old stars, in a project headed by the Dutch astronomer Rens Waters, who is also closely involved in the work on young stars. Apparently the mineral crystals do not survive in interstellar space, but have to be refashioned near young stars. The most clear-cut evidence for olivine crystals comes from the vicinity of HD 100546, a young blue star about 500 light-years away near the Southern Cross. It is thought to be only a few million years old and it is a strong infrared emitter. The star also shows peculiar ultraviolet absorptions, recorded by the NASA ESA UK International Ultraviolet Explorer, which apparently result from comets or asteroids splashing into HD 100546. "A tremendous cloud of comets seems to surround this young star," says Christoffel Waelkens of Leuven, Belgium, who leads the project that discovered the olivine crystals. "We believe that it was from just such a comet cloud, around the young Sun, that the Earth and the other planets were born. Now we compare notes with colleagues who study minerals in our local comets and meteorites. ISO has seen olivine in Comet Hale-Bopp. So not the least of ISO's successes is a reunification of stellar astrophysics and solar-system science." Newborn stars and stellar jets Astronomers in Stockholm, Sweden, are the lead authors of papers concerning the search for newborn stars and related phenomena in the southern constellation Chamaeleon. At about 800 light-years a feature called the Chamaeleon Dark Clouds, sprawling across more than one degree of the sky, is one of the closest regions of present-day star formation. The camera ISOCAM has obtained more than 23,000 images of the region, in two wavelength bands around 7 and 15 microns. Out of hundreds of objects detected, the team identified 65 young stars, of which more than 40 per cent were not previously known. Another lead author from Stockholm reports on the use of ISO's Long-Wavelength Spectrometer to examine a strange luminous patch in the Chamaeleon Dark Clouds called HH 54. It is a Herbig-Haro object, named after an American and a Mexican astronomer, in which a jet of gas from a very young star creates luminosity by shock waves, at a great distance from the star. ISO has for the first time detected emissions from water vapour in an HH object. This result not only confirms ISO's pioneering role as a cosmic water diviner, but gives new insight into the mechanisms creating the HH object. Practically all of the energy of a 10 kilometre-per-second shock is dissipated by infrared emissions from water vapour, hydroxyl and carbon monoxide molecules. A related paper, with a lead author from Frascati, Italy, compares HH 54 with other nearby objects HH 52 and HH 53, again using the Long-Wavelength Spectrometer. A conclusion is that HH 54 is energized by a young star different from the one that may be responsible for the other two objects. "The 91 papers published this month, covering observations from planets to galaxies, are still only a foretaste of many hundreds to be expected as the observing programmes and the data-processing mature," says Martin Kessler, ISO's project scientist based at Villafranca, Spain. "For example, ISOCAM is engaged on a systematic survey of a section of the Milky Way. In Astronomy and Astrophysics only one per cent of the survey is reported yet already there are thousands of infrared sources and plenty of surprises. Although ISO has only one more year of operation, its impact on astronomy will continue for many years." For further information about ISO contact: ESA PR (Paris): Simon Vermeer +33 1 5369 7106 ESA Project Scientist: Dr Martin Kessler +34 1 813 1253 Principal Investigator, Camera (ISOCAM): Prof. Catherine Cesarsky +33 1 6908 7515 Principal Investigator, Photometer (ISOPHOT): Prof. Dietrich Lemke +49 6221 528259 Principal Investigator, Short-Wavelength Spectrometer (SWS): Dr Thijs de Graauw +31 50 363 4074 Principal Investigator, Long-Wavelength Spectrometer (LWS): Prof. Peter Clegg +44 171 975 5038 For further information on the science discussed in this press release contact : The Nature article summarising the Astronomy and Astrophysics papers Dr Gerry Gilmore, +44 1 223 337 548 What powers ultraluminous galaxies ? Prof. Reinhard Genzel +49 89 329 93280 The Antenna interacting galaxies Dr Laurent Vigroux + 33 1 69 08 65 77 Vega-like dust disks around stars Prof. Harm Habing + 31 71 527 5803 Dust shells around old stars Dr Rens Waters + 31 20 525 7468 Clouds of Comets around the star HD 100546 Prof. Christoffel Waelkens +32 16 32 70 36 Search for other documents from or mentioning: awyn | lklaes | seti |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Archival Research From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:41:41 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:12:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Archival Research UFO UpDates - Toronto posted: > From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 03:32:37 -0400 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Archival Research > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Kudos to Jan Aldrich for his fine report on available archival materials. > Another word not used by the USAF was Corona. The MAXWELL AFB files (where the > Blue Book Files were then located) had a number of listings for UFO in the > various base and group histories card index.. separate from the Blue Book > material. Unfortunately many of those were classified 20 years ago when I first > looked and some were still classified less than 10 years ago. Stan, you will happy to know that these unit histories are now declassified or the staff will extract the ufo portions on request. The staff at Maxwell AFB was most helpful. Generally, most items can be declassified almost "on the spot." The USAF can not declassified SECRET Formerly Restricted Data (SFRD) or SECRET Restricted Data (SRD) as these classifications are for nuclear weapons data and can only be declassified the Department of Energy. Accident and crash data are considered privileged and out of sensitivity to relatives are generally not available. The staff can generally find "work arounds" for SFRD, SRD, and privileged information. The same is true for microfilm records. I have order almost 50 rolls of microfilm since my visit to Maxwell AFB and had no trouble to date. Unit histories were most extensive in the early 1950s (also, ufo coverage in histories was at its peak 1951-3). In the 1960s an USAF form which abbreviated the process was introducted and much of the color went out of the histories. In the late 1940s unit histories are sketchy or non-existent. OSI investigations are never discussed. Generally, only a statement to the effect that "The local OSI office conducted several investigations of security and non security matters during the reporting period." Unit histories are a fertile area for further research. Sometimes only that fact that ufos were sighted is recorded, but generally in the footnotes the location of such reports in unit files or the disposition of such reports is recorded. Once again, some reports apparently were not in the Blue Book files. >There was for > example Project Pinball.. re UFO observations in Alaska way back around > l950 as I recall. >STF I was very interested in finding out about "gizmos," radar "ghosts" from the late 1940s. Almost no references exist. Unit histories, to date, have not been much help as they are rather meager for this period. Aircraft warning and control units in the 1950s reported large numbers of unidentified target that were never resolved. These were put down to operator inexperience, natural phenomena, or aircraft not following flight plans. Since the characteristics were not ufos, they were not reported as such. Could these targets be matched with ufo reports? Well, they didn't make it to Blue Book so no one will know. Project Pinball is mentioned into the late 1950s in the unit histories of the 5004th Air Intelligence Service Squadron. FIOA requests reveal that institution memory of this project is gone. Documents indicate that Pinball "tracks" were thought to be Soviet probes of the US radar defenses. (Wrangell Island seemed to be a favorite Soviet target.) Since this radar data was apparently saved for future analysis, these files could indeed have some value ufowise. Jan Aldrich, Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Nuclear Debris Lands on Chile? From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 09:45:26 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:33:54 -0500 Subject: Nuclear Debris Lands on Chile? Media Ignores Real Fate of Failed Russian Probe? by Kristi Coale and James Glave A nuclear cloud hangs over the failed Russian Mars space probe, and most of the US media is looking the other way. That's the assessment of nuclear activists and watchdogs familiar with the true details of Mars 96's fiery re-entry and breakup into Earth's atmosphere. The craft was originally reported to have fallen harmlessly into the South Pacific near Australia. However, the probe, powered with a half-pound of highly radioactive Plutonium 238 pellets, broke up in the atmosphere over South America on 16 November and rained down on Chile and southern Bolivia, according to a 4 December report in the Boston Globe. The Globe story said the US Space Command waited until 27 November to reveal that its original predictions of an ocean landing had been wrong and that "pieces of it may have hit Chile or Bolvia." Plutonium 238 has a shorter half-life and generates a good deal more radioactivity than standard weapons-grade Plutonium 239. "You have this shit drop as it did, who knows where the hell it spread," said Karl Grossman, a professor of journalism at the State University of New York and expert on space journalism. "It's going to be around for a couple thousand years. That's a significant problem." Grossman characterized the failure of The Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, and The New York Times to follow up on the story and report the actual crash area as absolutely disgraceful. "What we have here is space boosterism," he said. "US Space Command wanted to get this off the front pages, so they sat on [the news of the actual crash site] for 11 days," said Bruce Gagnon, state coordinator of the Florida Coalition for Peace and Justice, an activist group fighting to keep plutonium out of space. "Now, everyone's talking about the hatch that's stuck on the space shuttle," Gagnon said. Gagnon believes that NASA and the US Space Command wanted to downplay the story to keep concerns about launching plutonium into space at a minimum. Next October, NASA will launch the Cassini Probe to explore Saturn. That spacecraft will carry 73 pounds of Plutonium 238. Had word of the terrestrial crash leaked out when the Mars probe was still page one news, eyes would have turned to Cassini and perhaps placed the project in jeopardy, Gagnon said. By sitting on the news, the government keeps the flow of information on plutonium in space in small pieces that are easily digested by the press, lulling them into a state of complicity over space developments, he said. "NASA feeds the information to the reporters a little at a time, and they get used to the idea. We're now used to the idea that we use plutonium in satellites," said Gagnon. Gagnon said plutonium isn't the only answer; it's what NASA and the Department of Energy, which oversees certain aspects of the space missions, advance while downplaying other sources. For example, solar power is a possible source for propellants for satellites. Although NASA has issued reports that find solar power inadequate for deep space satellites such as Cassini, the press has failed to dig deeper, said Gagnon. Copyright =A9 1993-96 Wired Ventures, Inc. and affiliated companies. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:41:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:10:24 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' My friend the Sasquatch wrote: >Ask yourself next how abductees wend themselves > to Hopkins, Jacobs and Mack in the first place. Do you honestly think it's > because previously frustrated psychiatrists and psychologists refer them to > abductionologists? As we all know, that's a rhetorical question, so it's hardly necessary for me to say "No, of course not." It's easy to see why abductees go to Hopkins, Jacobs, and Mack. Just read Budd's mail. A consistent stream of letters come from people who say they've had troubling experiences that the abduction scenario appears to explain. These people appear, from their letters, to be in various emotional states. Some are emotionally distressed, some aren't; some have been in therapy, some haven't. The reason they write to Budd, though, is that they don't consider their experiences to be an emotional problem. They think they're a real-world problem. In other words, they think their experiences are real. You might disagree. Maybe you think they should seek emotional help. Maybe you think their belief that their experiences are real is a sign of emotional trouble. Fine...go argue with them. Maybe some of them do need psychiatric help. Just last week, Budd referred someone who wrote to him to a therapist. I spoke to this guy myself. (Newcomers should be aware that I'm monitoring Budd's work with abductees, as a research project of my own.) Whatever his abduction situation, he's clearly in emotional difficulty, and Budd -- rightly, I hope everyone will agree -- doesn't want to talk abduction with people who can barely cope with everyday life. One point to emphasize...these letter-writers don't claim to have been abducted. They say they remember unexplained lights in their bedrooms, unexplained disappearances when they were children, UFO sightings near their homes, and, sometimes, the vaguely sensed presence of beings by their beds. When they come across abduction accounts, they realize that their experiences fit...but that doesn't make them conclude that they were abducted. What they all say is "please help me find out whether this could be the explanation." And one more thing about therapists. I don't know if it's relevant to ask if you've ever been in therapy, but I have, and it doesn't surprise me a bit that abductees -- in fact, anyone with anomalous experiences -- wouldn't mention them to a therapist. You don't, for one thing, bare your entire soul. For another, you don't want to be ridiculed. Therapists are only human. If your shrink is a Republican and you're a Democrat, you might well avoid political discussion, and if you're a deep believer in the paranormal, you certainly don't talk about that with everyone. Why would your doctor be an exception? Now, it's true that abduction memories, whatever their cause, might be troubling. But if you seriously believe that you've seen weird lights in your bedroom, what does that have to do with, let's say, trouble with making romantic commitments? Dennis, you seem to be treating such a belief -- or verging on treating it -- as a psychiatric problem, or potentially one, and it just doesn't seem so to the people who have it. If there's any emotional problem, it might lie in how to talk to other people about those lights, or whether to, or how not to, if you're intimate with someone...and how are you going to bring <that> up without fearing you'll be ridiculed? It's interesting to read the psychological literature, to find out therapists' views of the paranormal. I did; I did a computer search of psychological journals (keyword "paranormal") and found quite a few papers. Nearly all of them attempted to prove that paranormal beliefs were pathological. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that they started from that view, treating it as an assumption. Anyhow, after reading that stuff, I'd advise anyone in therapy <not> to bring up any sort of paranormal experience, even the mildest form of ESP, unless you know for sure that your therapist is open to it. Here's where my own experience is relevant. My paranormal interests became an issue in my own therapy, because I'd kept things like my lifelong interest in UFOs secret even from my best friends. Clearly, there's no reason to do that, or not to find friends who'd be supportive. So it was something to work on. But my otherwise wonderful shrink had enormous problems with this. The climax of our difficulties came when I told her I'd had out of body experiences (for which, as I told her, I'm not making any claims; I don't know that I really left my body). She was shocked. One problem was that she'd never heard of such a thing. The second problem was that she couldn't understand why I wasn't worried about myself. It did no good to show her that there's a vast literature on OBEs, and that, to anyone who's read it, the mere fact of having the experience isn't all that remarkable. She kept shaking her head and coming back to the same point: "Some of my other patients tell me things like that happen to them, but they all think they're crazy!" When we were finally able to talk about this objectively, she agreed that her reactions had actually been harmful to me, and that they weren't atypical of people in her field (something certainly borne out by the journal articles I read). All of which is a lengthy way to tell you that abductees won't get anywhere telling their therapists about their abduction beliefs. In fact, they'd be crazy to do so. On a very different subject, you wrote: >Privately, I sent you my own theory about abductions possibly being > related to some sort of abortion guilt/anxiety complex, citing similarities > between "traditional" greys and culturally absorbed fetal imagery. One thing > I didn't point out at the time was that such "fetal" imagery is present (and > therefore available for absorption [and regurgitation]) in numerous other > contexts as well. When you sent me this, my response was that it was hard for me to appreciate. That's because I live in New York, where abortions are considered relatively unremarkable. Also, it's true, I've never been involved closely with one, though plenty of women I know have had them. In any case, I'm not going to get involved in the powerful controversy that broke out here over this. For me, the idea is far-fetched; I'm unable to grasp exactly what makes it plausible. To say images are out there isn't enough; we need to know what makes some images take root the way the abduction imagery has, while most just float around not bothering many people. Take the mythology of satanic ritual abuse. Since fundamentalist Christians talk about Satan so much, it's not surprising that people start believing in satanists. The pathway from fetal imagery and abortion guilt to the abduction scenario isn't nearly as simple. I agree that your theory is testable. The simplest test would be to survey abductees. Though I do think there are conceptual difficulties. How do we measure feelings about abortion? How do we quantify abortion guilt? Exactly what questions do we ask? We'd need a control group, to make sure that abductees' answers were different from those of the world at large. Other tests are tricky. You mentioned comparing the reported abductions in countries with varying views of abortion. Trouble is, there are other variables as well. How can we control for factors that might make people more or less willing to report their supposed abductions? You also wrote: >With the emergence of abductees as hapless victims, however, the > emphasis has significantly shifted. Rather than being grilled and > questioned, today's abductees are routinely treated with kid's gloves, > hypnotized and shuttled off to support groups. "Hapless" is an interesting word in this context. One thing John Powell and I seem to agree on is that abductees are far from hapless. Nor are they encouraged to think of themselves as victims. Nor are they shuttled off anywhere. They strike me as, on the whole, strong-minded people who take a large role in shaping what happens to them. Not many of them go to support groups, to judge from the turnout I've seen at Budd's What does he get...20 or 30 people tops, maybe less, and not the same ones each time? It's not as if he's created a tight-knit community of desperate souls who keep returning to validate their beliefs. The people who seem to do the hardest grilling and questioning are the abductees themselves. The ones I've met stress that they didn't easily accept alien abduction as an explanation for their memories, nor did they automatically trust what emerged under hypnosis. I grant your point (which you made more strongly in private) that present-day abductees aren't expected to take polygraph tests, the way Travis Walton was. But I think you're treating abductees as far weaker, and far more easily led, than they actually are. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 05:18:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:32:51 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 15:29:03 -0400 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Errol: I am beginning to wonder if Ed Stewart and Kevin Randle haven't been > hired by some disinformation outfit to waste my time on the net with some very > strange arguments. The above should be a big clue that ufology's renowned nuclear physicist, the original Roswell researcher with 14 years experience in private industry working on classified programs at the secret level, or below, for various contractors during the 50s and 60s, and who has demonstrated what may be interpreted as heroic archival research having visited 15 archives (but somehow still complaining to be using outdated inventory lists dating to 1963 with no mention of UFOs, but with the same stroke of the lip admitting that the Blue Book files have been available at the archives for the last few years after I pointed it out from a more contemporary inventory listing which indicates that most of his heroic archival research is not of recent vintage), really has no new evidence to support his proclamations related to MJ-12. Or, for that matter, exercise whatever scientific skills he may have picked up at the University of Chicago at one time prior to his pursuits in search of MJ-12. Friedman continues with: > Let me look at several: > 1. Kevin's argument that since Ike would have known about Roswell, as Chief of > Staff in 1947, there would have been no need for a preliminary briefing in 1952 > as the president elect, is an old and faulted one. It might have held if Ike > had remained as Chief of Staff through 1952. But he had already in June, 1947, > announced he was stepping down to be tbe President of Colmbia University. The fact remains that during the alleged Roswell incident, General of the Army Dwight Eisenhower was the Chief of Staff, was performing as the Chief of Staff on a daily basis and as such would have been in the loop and in the know for any major event that would have occurred in July 1947. There is no evidence that Eisenhower was removed from any of his duties as Chief of Staff, or had his clearance and need-to-know revoked from him in the discharge of his duties as Chief of Staff. What Friedman calls a "faulty" argument is nothing more than another unsubstantiated proclamation by him for which he has never been able to find any supporting documentation. [Much irrelevancy SNIPPED] > Clearly he needed and > received briefings on National Security matters after his long time out of the > loop. There is no doubt in my mind that any elected President would have had received an onslaught of briefings on National Security matters of all types. The President of the United States receives such briefings on an almost, if not, daily basis. It goes with the territory. But again, there is no evidence to support that any of the briefings that Eisenhower would have gotten was related to MJ-12. For Friedman to assume that Eisenhower received an MJ-12 briefing is pure speculation and proclamation on his part with no evidence to support his belief system. > The CIA has been unable to locate anything related to those briefings. The innuendo being that whenever those briefings become available, they would support Friedman's position. To base a claim on an if proposition is employing faulty logic and has no basis in fact or logic. An example: If the murder weapon was ever to be found, the suspect would be proved guilty. Therefore, the suspect is guilty. Fortunately, reality doesn't work that way inspite of Friedman's arguments that the burden of proof does not lie with him, but on those that challenge his proclamations and introduce evidence contrary and non-supportive of his claims. > 2. I referred to the need for access to classified files re the history of Area > 51 and Kevin commented "we do have access to the public records which show no > evidence of any secret facility in 1954" . To the best of my knowledge public > records are by definition, not classified. How could they show evidence of > classified balck matters. It is done all the time. I suggest you follow-up on Paul McGinnis' excellent work. His web site is: http://www.frogi.org/secrecy.html. Also, subscribe to the Skunk-Works mailing list and visit the Federation of American Scientists (FAS) website at: http://www.fas.org. Anybody that is interested in government secrecy should be tuned in to those sources on the web. > The area is, according to one writer the size of > Switzerland. A facility for collection, storage, and evaluation of bodies and > wreckage need not be the size of Switzerland. An area that size would mostly be within ground zero of the Nevada Test Site. Groom Lake is but a mere twenty miles from the site. Are you suggesting that MJ-12 would have build an underground site directly under ground zero, or that they would have had a site where most of the deadly and heavy fallout would have been carried to and continuously deposited due to the prevailing weather patterns? The govsernment was actively conducting atmospheric tests at the Nevada Test Site throughout the 50s. The Groom Lake area, which is not the size of Switzerland and where the coordinates indicated by released documents that Area 51 is located, had to be evacuated a couple of times during the early 50s due to wind/weather shifting during Atom Bomb tests. Outside of those instances, the civilian population that lived and worked there, as well as anybody else that cared to go there, had free access to Groom Lake until 1958. That is a fact supported by real people, real homes and real lives. Air space above Groom Lake was restricted in 1955 when installations were built there in 1955. That is a supportable fact. It was called the Watertown Strip, not area 51. That is a supportable fact. Before 1955, there were no facilities at Groom Lake. It did have an old unused dirt airstrip leftover from WWII. That is a supportable fact. The people that lived and worked there in the 40s/50s had no restrictions placed on them until after the U-2 program started in 1955. After 1955, they couldn't fly over their own homes. That is a supportable fact. After 1958, their lands were confiscated and could no longer live there. It is my understanding that the Sheehan family to this date still own the Groom Mine and can have access to the property on prior notification. > Ed Stewart sets a new standard for > classification when he stated as repeated by Scott Hale "Before information > becomes classified, it is in the public domain and out there". Using Ed's > phrase > (would I ever say any such thing?) this is "unadulterated poppycock". Many > Black > Programs are by definition born classified. There were no public domain > releases > on the Manhattan Project, the city of Los Alamos, the Stealth Fighter, the U-2 > etc ad nauseum before they became classified, were there Ed?. Really? What do you suppose happened to all of the scientific papers published in the scientific press related to splitting the atom from the time that Einstein's E=mc(2) started to be interpreted as atom splitting and the fantastic energies speculated that could be released as a result and the subsequent clampdown of such scientific papers on the open literature as the result of the realization that science could be converted to technology and create a bomb and the beginnings of the Manhattan Project? Did all of that literature get erased? No. Did it get pulled from the library shelves all over the world? No. But all of a sudden, there was no more literature to be found in future scientific journals related to the subject. Not only were there plenty of prior published information on the subject, but all of a sudden the subject went away. Two big clues for anyone wanting to do some detective work at the time that would have had an outside interest on the subject. In regards to the city of Los Alamos, again what was there before it was built? A boy's school which was bought for $440,000. Oppenheimer did not recruit everyone he talked to. There were people that did not wish to go there due to the restrictions once there on their mobility and on their families. The fact is that there were people all over the U.S. that knew of Los Alamos that did not become part of the Manhattan Project. Most of Los Alamos was built by the army engineers, but they still employed contractors to built some facilities. These contractor personnel left the area after they finished. Security precautions were designed to keep people out and to keep people in as well as information: perimeter fences around the labs and the city built around it, pass controls, no open accessible telephones. Some of the people that Oppenheimer approached wanted nothing to do with it. Lots of people in Santa Fe knew that something big was happening at the Los Alamos mesa. The army bought up every available used automobile to provide transportation back and forth. Loads of people were arriving by car and train over a short period of time. The Army commandeered ranches in the Santa Fe area to house these people arriving until they could move into facilities and housing not yet built at the Los Alamos mesa. Not to say anything about the logistical support over 1943-45 to maintain a newly built city. Supplies had to be delivered which came in on the open highways and railways. If any of the locals cared to be observant, there were plenty of open sources of information that said one thing: there is something at the Los Alamos mesa and it isn't a boy's school, it is now a "city". In regards to the stealth, a toy company (Testor) had a scale model available to every school kid, both here and in Russia, before the Air Force would even admit to the stealth and before many members of Congress were even aware of it. Many Congressmen were not happy ducks and it prompted a Congressional investigation. How did Testor find out about the details to the stealth? From non-classified information available in the public domain. Regarding the U-2, it was never a secret. Its mission and capabilities were the secret. The CIA realized that even flying out of Groom Lake, it would be impossible to hide its profile and that it would be spotted by unwanted eyes over Nevada so it issued a cover story as to its purpose and mission which lasted until Gary Powers was shot down over Russia. Now, all of the above were real programs, real projects, real people were involved and affected before, during and after requiring real resources. That means that they all had a public "fingerprint" somewhere, someplace in the open and accessible record. That is the mark of a real program. Skunk Works trackers track the report to the stockholders and they match that to the several program lines in the budget. When a discrepancy appears, guess what? A new black project emerges. They follow the money, the accounting. With MJ-12 nobody has ever been able to do that. Not one yota of verifiable evidence has ever been found that links any of the named MJ-12 people to MJ-12. Not one yota of verifiable evidence has ever been found that links any meeting to MJ-12. Not one yota of verifiable evidence has ever been found that links any government or contractor organization to MJ-12. Not one yota of verifiable evidence has ever been found that links any resources to MJ-12. That is the mark of a bogus program, a hoax. [Not having any evidence to support his claims to this list, Friedman decides to take a commercial break. Sales pitch for Friedman material filled with his personal opinions and proclamations deleted} But, I do wish to make a point. Friedman advertised a compilation of stapled letters entitled: "S.E.T.I, Sagan and Science." I would like to recommend to anyone reading this that if the subject of science and scientific evaluation and acceptance of UFO phenomena is of interest, spend your money wisely and read a book called "UFO'S: A SCIENTIFIC DEBATE" edited by Carl Sagan and Thornton Page. Not only will you find papers in there that have applied real science to UFO phenomena like Dr. J. Allen Hynek's and Dr. James McDonald's, but also what I consider one of the most important papers ever printed that lays out what ufology needs to do to ever elevate itself if it ever wishes to be considered as a scientific endeavor. That paper is Phillip Morrison's "The Nature of Scientific Evidence: A Summary." Morrison not only respectfully and clearly shows what ufology must do, but he also points out some fallacies that people have about science. Most importantly, he uses the Biot case of 1806 and how a paradigm shift occurred when Biot was successful in proving to the French Academy that rocks indeed do fall out of the sky. He uses the Biot case to show what Ufology needs to do and most importantly that it is attainable. Must reading for anyone serious about UFO phenomena and has an interest in elevating ufology above its present state. > 4. Ed I hate to tell you this, but JUST CAUS is not a referreed scientific > journal. I hate to tell you this, but I have never stated it was. I also hate to tell you this but it is spelled JUST CAUSE, and not JUST CAUS. > It is a newsletter going to a few hundred people. It has been known to > make mistakes about MJ-12. For example, as noted on p.49 of "Final Report..." I > pointed out that the December, 1985. JC article stated that the Ike Briefing > was > classified Top Secret Eyes Only (leaving out MAJIC), was 9 back to back pages, > dated Sept. 18, l947 and signed by Truman. It was 8 one sided pages, not signed > by anybody, though the TF memo (p.8) was signed by Truman.The date is Nov. 18. > for those who think that September might have been a typo, please note that it > also stated "Septmber 18, l947 is the birthdate of the CIA! Is it a concidence > or a telltale clue to the document being a phoney...."... I suspect that the above error is a favorite of yours since you dismiss JUST CAUSE in your latest book after pointing out the same error and completely ignore all the other research that was published in JUST CAUSE by various independent ufologists, mostly during 1987-89 with a few falling into later years, as you have either ignored or proclaimed out of hand many of the specific articles I have posted references to this list since August of this year. Interesting that you had to reach back to 1985 to find an error you apparently like so much. To put it into perspective, in 1985 when the article was printed in JUST CAUSE the only people that had copies of the alleged MJ-12 documents were you, Moore and Shandera with Lee Graham having had a "peak" at the documents from another alleged source, but not allowed to make a copy. The "error" you so astutly point out repeately in your past publications was information provided to Barry Greenwood from your partner William Moore. If you have a problem with the "error", you should have seen him back in 1985. But, to keep pointing that repeately as a JUST CAUSE error while ignoring the damming evidence that they have published pointing to MJ-12 being bogus and publishing in your book that "nothing that we had found or that others had alleged indicated that the documents were anything other than legitimate" is nothing but intellectual dishonesty. I also wish to point out the article was not pro or anti MJ-12, but simply informational in nature based on what William Moore had told Barry Greenwood with Barry taking both an angel's advocate and a devil's advocate role in writing the article. The article itself is probably the most innocuous and insignificant article related to MJ-12 published in JUST CAUSE because no one outside of the MJ-12 team of Moore-Shandera-Friedman had yet to do any research on the alleged documents. The damming documentation and research that points out why they are in all probability bogus and a distraction to serious UFO research comes in the much later issues of 1987-1989, the ones you ignored in your book. > 5. For Kevin, I am well aware of Dr.Pankratz's comments . Obviously if the Ike > or Truman libraries had MJ-12 documents of their own, we wouldn't be having > this > discussion. That doesn't mean they don't exist. *********************************** Sounds like the words of a businessman wishing to continue marketing a "mystery". A scientist would sound more like "No independent evidence has been found that the MJ-12 documents are real." The presidential Archives do > NOT > get everything from that administration. The regulations about security > markings > are one thing, the reality is quite another again as I have noted. *************************************************** Your arguments related to security markings in your latest book are fallacious since you keep confusing apples and oranges. More later. The above deserves a totally separate post. > Enough of my time. STF But you haven't said anything that supports or provides linkage to your claim that the MJ-12 documents are real. Your above comments can be summarized as an initial appeal to the gallery with the inclusion of an ad hominen proclamation, followed by one after another argument not based on logic or facts - but merely opiniated proclamations more designed to keep a "mystery" alive and hopefully marketable. Are you really Stanton T. Friedman? You don't seem to behave according to the dictums of the following quote from your latest book: "As I gave more lectures, I found that I enjoyed speaking and that people believed me no matter what I said. After all, I was a nuclear physicist for Westinghouse, which in Pittsburgh, with its numerous nuclear divisions and research facilities, were gold-plated credentials. The blind acceptance frightened me - now I knew how the demagogues of the twentieth century had had such success. I wanted people to think, to explore, to look at the data and nake up their own minds. I decided that I would try to reach more technical groups, who presumably wouldn't accept everything I said as gospel." Will the real Stanton T. Friedman please stand up? Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Greer, Admits His Connection With Rockefeller From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:10:56 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:14:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Greer, Admits His Connection With Rockefeller >Dr. Steven Greer, who in recent months flew to England to obtain a clear >vivid video tape of a disk pulling aerial manuevers from an English couple ^^^^ Wasn't it a triangular craft? Regards, JJ Mercieca .----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '----------------------------------------------------' *MUFOR Web site : http://207.167.67.197/ * *TLP Database : http:// ^^^ /tlp/lunar.html * *E-mail 1 : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * *E-mail 2 : mufor@waldonet.net.mt * *IRC Channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * *Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. *Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * *Postal Address : P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Dec 96 22:50:49 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:28:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance **Several messages went to 'data heaven' in my inbox this morning so if there were other messages for me in this thread I lost them. - T. ** <<From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:38:14 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance>> To Rebecca: Re: Cameraman interveiw tape. <<> video, and a man claiming to be the cameraman's son, who's face was also > seen. Yes, it has been reported by Kiviat on the Leeza show that this interview exists. Has he seen it yet?>>> Yes, he has seen it and a few other people have as well. (Besides Shell and Hesemann.) <<I'm not sure who else has seen it but those two are hardly disinterested parties. They did offer somewhat differing accounts of the interview, didn't they? >> Yes those two did, and I got the impression that Hesemann saw the unedited version and Shell saw it after it had been edited. Kiviat saw it before either of them, and what he saw was an unedited version as well. Kiviat would like to show it in a update show, as the 'cameraman' is visible and recognizable in it. But there are all kinds of legal problems if he does so without the 'cameraman's' permission. <<I don't know if they exist beyond Santilli's say so. The people I refer to above have at times shown a certain disrespect for objectivity.>> Well, they exists, but I understand that you will want to see it for yourself, to believe that, so I won't go into it any further. <<But McGovern could be an important verifier of facts. The offer Lt. Col. McGovern extended was genuine. >> I have trouble with considering his offer to be genuine. Had he made it to Santilli rather than to Santilli's #1 nemesis, I might have thought he was sincere. But there are other problems with McGovern's claims that might be coming out soon as well. For now I will let that rest. My patience is still holding out. <g> And I know that it will come out eventually. <<What are the chances that we will ever see the alleged cameraman's face and/or the face of his son? Would Santilli sell the interview for money _without_ the cameraman's approval? How much money would it take? (I'm planning on the winning the lottery soon <g>)>> If Santilli sells it without the cameramans approval, Kiviat can't use it on the air. At least not showing the cameraman's face. He would have to show it blacked out and he knows no one wants to see that, so he would be real stupid to buy it on those conditions. (Yes, I think you will see the 'cameraman's' face one way or another. <g> Provided you are even interested that is.) <<Yes. That is important. But dating the film is very necessary and important also. What are the odds that either will happen?>> I think the chances of getting the 'cameraman' are better than getting film tested right now. Mainly because steps have already been taken in that direction. As far as I can tell, nothing has been done on the film dating. But Ray Santilli has surprised me a couple of times by doing things that seem out of character for someone that knew he was peddling a hoax. But I haven't asked him for anything much other than information. So I can't personally attest to him breaking promises or whatever. The things that he told me he was going to do, he did. Some of the questions that I asked him to get answers for from the cameraman, are still unanswered but I haven't pushed to get them either. Ray Santilli wasn't a difficult person to get to. He is now, <argggh> but he was pretty open for quite a while. He knows that I am skeptical of the footage, I have always made that clear to him, but he also knows that I am fair. I found information that is extremely relevant to this case and may be somewhat relevant to the classic Roswell case as well. But it tends to be in favour of the footage. And I am hesitant to publish information that is pro-footage, when I am not sosure that it is deserved. And also because I haven't finished checking it all out. Could be a while yet, since I don't have all that much time to spend on it. (You know how I sat on the information about the opening frames for months before I finally posted about it in May. I probably wouldn't have even posted it then, except I got tired of Shell and Hesemann claiming that the film samples "were clearly from the autopsy room" or " were definitely attached to the autopsy footage". My patience did wear thin on that I guess.<g>) Anyhow, the information I am looking into may not be necessary if the man claiming to be the cameraman is identified. I have been told that it's because of me that the autopsy footage story hasn't died and been forgotten yet, so I guess if I shut up, and no one will mention it again. <g> <<I saw Slim at the travel agent's earlier this evening.>> Slim Pickens?? <g> Lots of that here in Minnesota. ;-) Best wishes and Happy Holidays! Theresa Carlson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Code of Ethics From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:25:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:13:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of Ethics There's one thing John Powell wrote that I want to treat separately from the rest, to make sure my reply isn't buried at the bottom of a lengthy post: > I _do_ think that abductionology is mostly a 'game' and that's why the > abductionists steadfastly refuse to take abduction research another step > forward. They know that they can periodically make a buck by cranking > out another batch of stories. They also know (my opinion) that > electronic monitoring would likely (my opinion) reveal that _nothing_ > objectively physical has happenned to these people. They also know (my > opinion) that independent research on anomalous physical markings would > likely (my opinion) reveal that the bulk of them are not at all > anomalous. A few brave souls have submitted foreign bodies (the > _correct_ terminology) allegedly removed from self-claimed abductees for > analysis and they have _ALL_ turned out to be perfectly ordinary (which > I think explains why the current crop of foreign bodies _is not_ being > analyzed). > In short, if these abductionists do nothing they may continue to profit > but if they attempt to take abduction research forward they run the very > serious risk of underecutting their previous work and credibility. And also: > The danger we risk of doing things the _right_ way is that people like > Hopkins (et. al.) would eventually be forgotten and their lurid stories > would be of value only to comic book publishers. But since many in > ufology would sorely miss their periodic abduction serials, and since > many are 'scientific' <grin> they wouldn't dare satisfy that desire with > comic books, so another risk is that they would be deprived of the > abduction lore that has polluted ufology in recent years. > John is not only saying that abduction researchers -- the ones who believe in the reality of abductions -- are wrong. He's saying that they're dishonest, that they know their work can't be scientifically validated, and that they don't want scientific tests to be done because that would stop them from making money. John, since you believe in objective evidence, please show me the evidence that abduction researchers are making money from their work. John Mack might be, and Whitley Strieber got a huge advance for Communion, because he was already a best-selling writer. But I doubt that Budd Hopkins, Dave Jacobs, or Eddie Bullard are making money, to name three whose careers I know something about. Very few people who publish books get advances large enough to pay for the time it takes to write one. UFO books are no exception. To judge from the figures that have been quoted to me, Hopkins and Jacobs essentially take a loss every time they publish. You might imagine that the TV movie of Intruders made a bundle for Budd, but I'm not so sure. I recently had my own brush with TV, and discovered -- to my amazement -- that the money going to writers is several orders of magnitude lower than outsiders might expect. (Unless you're writing prime-time network sitcoms, of course.) Last time I heard anything about him, Bullard was still working as a "gofer" (his term) in the Indiana University library. His concentration on UFOs is not likely to help him land an academic job in his field. Jacobs told me that he may never get promoted to full professor because his specialty, in practice, is UFOs. He's published very little as an academic historian. Budd may have neglected a once-thriving career as a painter to concentrate on abductions. I don't know that for a fact, and quite frankly I've been embarrassed to ask him, but I know what it takes to maintain a presence in the art world, and he can't possibly be doing what he needs to do, given the amount of time he spends on his abduction work. I do know that he has chronic financial problems. Above all, though, I want to say this. John, you talk about "lurid," "comic-book" abduction tales. But look at the language you use..."make a buck," "cranking out," "lurid stories," "abduction serials," "abduction lore," "polluted ufology." Not to mention the accusations you make. I'd be hard-pressed to find anything comparable in any abduction "comic book" by Hopkins, Jacobs, or Bullard, or for that matter by Raymond Fowler or even John Mack. You or anyone else may believe that their conclusions are wrong, childish, or even dangerous, but they write with dignity, and don't engage in ad hominem attacks. One thing that pollutes ufology is fighting among ufologists. We see it here on Errol's list...Kevin Randle vs. Stan Friedman, Ed Stewart vs. Stan Friedman, Graham Birdsall vs. Philip Mantle. Frankly, it makes me a little sick. After a while, the question of who's right starts to seem less important than the persistence -- and tone -- of the fights. If you want to criticize abduction research, go right ahead. But I think all of us (me included) would be better off if we conducted our debates with consistent respect. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Welcome, David Jacobs [via: UFO UpDates List] From: "David m. Jacobs" <djacobs@thunder.ocis.temple.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:08:02 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:28:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Welcome, David Jacobs [via: UFO UpDates List] Thanks for the welcome. Actually, I got an E-mail from Philip Mantle enclosing the query about the abduction experience. I decided to answer it thinking that it had been sent to him from an abductee and he had passed it on to me. As time permits, I will be glad to answer other questions that people have as best I can. Thanks again, Dave Jacobs
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:23:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:15:47 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 The debate John Powell and I are having should really be conducted in public, with a very sharp moderator. The moderator could force out some of the assumptions both he and I make, and focus the discussion. John wrote, > I find it convenient to point the > finger at the hypnotist especially when there exists different themes of > concurrance (Boylan, Sprinkle, etc., believe in benevolent aliens and > that is reflected in their subjects; Hopkins, Jacobs, etc., believe in > malevolent aliens and that is reflected in their subjects). John, what's the evidence that this is actually true? Have studies been done? I don't know about abductees that Boylan and Sprinkle work with, but the abductees I've met who work with Budd seem to split 50/50 on the aliens' intentions. Plenty of his people take a Sprinkle-esque New Age view. I think, John, that you're perpetuating a myth. We differ on whether Elvis sightings are as consistent as abduction reports. I think not, after reading unopened mail about Elvis sightings at the Weekly World News, and unopened mail about abductions at Budd Hopkins's house. But John writes: > How do [the Elvis sightings] vary? Elvis was seen with breasts? Elvis was seen as an > Afroamerican or Hispanic. Elvis was seen with four arms and a tail? > Sorry, Elvis is almost always 'seen' as Elvis, the 'basic' Elvis that > we've all seen pictures of at one time or another and that is > specifically the point I'm trying to make. Elvis might still have black hair, in these letters, or he might have let his hair go gray. He might have grown a beard, or be clean shaven. He might have shaved off his sideburns, or still be wearing them. He might have a mustache. He might limp, due to an auto accident. He might be preparing a musical comeback, or have given up music forever. He might be living in Atlanta, or Detroit, or California, or be drifting. He might have no money, or might be living off funds he deposited in a Swiss bank account. He might be married again, or he might be single. He might be fat or thin. Many people don't even offer details. They just swear they saw him at the mall on Friday. "He's grown a beard, but I <know> it was him." About Eddie Bullard's work, John writes: > The observable fact that there appears to be a > consistency in certain details _comes from_ merely a handful of > abduction hypnotists and _that_ is where his work began. Bullard also uses accounts from researchers who don't use hypnosis. That has been one big point of his studies. > I guarantee you that if he skipped the assumption that there is some > consistency in detail and instead tried to find consistency in detail > among contactee stories he would find it... Are you sure he <assumed> there was consistency of detail? I thought that was the result of his study, and I'd also understood his initial assumption was that the tales could be dismissed as folklore. How can you guarantee what he'd find if he studied something else? Do you have his expertise in folklore? And even if you do, he's not you. He might come to conclusions of his own. About samples of alleged alien writing -- which I've seen, and which are essentially identical -- John asks: > Why aren't these alleged samples in the public domain where they can be > independently analyzed? Eventually they will be. For now, though, there's a kind of catch-22. To publish them would contaminate any future witness who claims to have seen the same writing. But you're right. There's no reason for you to take them seriously when you only have my word that they even exist, let alone that they're significantly similar. At this point in the discussion, however, I'd love it if a moderator asked: "John, Greg agrees that these alleged writing samples haven't been verified. Would you, in turn, concede that if they had been, and were clearly all but identical, they might suggest that the abductees' supposed experience was real?" Because, in the end, that's all this dispute is really about. I know very well that the reality of abductions hasn't been proved. I've told Budd Hopkins many times that much of the evidence he believes in most -- like the corroboration of tiny details, or the marks that supposedly appear overnight, or the abductees who allegedly wake up after an abduction wearing someone else's clothes, or the supposed nonexistence of even a single alien medical exam involving an abductee's chest -- is all hearsay, from my point of view. I have to take Budd's word for it (and, in the case of the second and third points, he's taking the abductee's word). But these items, along with the writing (which I've seen, John, so, speaking purely for myself, I don't need it to appear in public view), are extremely suggestive. Should they prove to be true, they create, at least in my opinion, a reasonable presumption that abductions are genuine, or at least that something very weird is going on. That's all I've been saying, and I can't for the life of me see why it's problematic. What I don't want in response -- and what I trust the moderator wouldn't allow -- is more heat about how these things haven't been proved. I know they haven't. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Wormwood? From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:51:08 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:30:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? At 02:42 AM 12/13/96 -0500, you wrote: >From: HoustonSky@aol.com >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:49:00 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) >Subject: Wormwood? > >Posted on the Art Bell website... http://www.artbell.com > >From: Name@Withheld >To: artbell@aol.com >Date: 96-12-11 00:33:29 EST > >Dear Mr. Bell, > I have listened to your program off and on for around two years now, >whenever I get "down-time". I have some disturbing information and I fell >that your program would be the perfect vehicle with which to distribute what >I have. What a heap of BS! What's becoming quite clear is that some people are going through a great deal of effort to whip up this wildly implausible, obviously fraudulent half-cocked Hale-Bopp stories. I'm really wondering what the motivation could be. At any rate, this story looks so thoroughly manufactured and absurd that I can only wonder who is doing this and why. Any ideas for why the government would possibly promote bizarre Hale-Bopp conspiracy theories? Brian Search for other documents from or mentioning: bdzeiler | houstonsky |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 18:28:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:17:22 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Ed Stewart: get off my back. Tangible evidence indeed.. You want a T shirt or ashtray issued by MJ-12? A video of a meeting of the Operation Majestic 12 reunion committee?? Perhaps you would really like an alien body, six pieces of saucer wreckage and a Zeta Reticulan license plate? Evidence covers far more than Tangible.. Eye witness testimony, for example, is considered evidence. I have noted a great deal of evidence of things not known at that time by any outsiders but turning out to be true for example.. but why bother. Believe what you want.. my mission in life is NOT to try to convince the Ed Stewarts of the world..You have perhaps forgotten your adamant insistence that all TS documents had to have TS control numbers.. despite having copies of a number that didn't in your hands?? Forget it. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:51:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:29:50 -0500 Subject: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Moulton Howe on 'Art Bell', 8 Dec. 1996 > WAIT A MINUTE! > > That's what *I* and many, many others have been telling readers of this > list for *weeks* now! And all we've been getting is flames! > > Linda Howe and Art Bell have been promoting the mystery companion all > this time and finally got some astronomers to say what everyone else > has been saying all along, and suddenly, Howe and Bell are somehow > vindicated? Well, actually no. Linda has never believed it was anything other than a star. She even chastised Chuck Shramek for not going through proper channels. Art on the other hand appears to be sticking to the Hale Bopp is weird and has a giant something with it. He bases this on Chuck's photo, other photos, and the mysterious unnamed Mr. X astrophysicist/astronomer from a Top 10 University. > Sorry, it doesn't work that way. This is what they should have done > *first*, before hyping the story. I agree. Rebecca >
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 07:58:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:16:35 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Noted Roswell researcher Stanton Friedman writes: > Errol: I am beginning to wonder if Ed Stewart and Kevin Randle > haven't been > hired by some disinformation outfit to waste my time on the net with > some very > strange arguments. Let me look at several: Stanton, You have a very keen mind. Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Saudi Jetliner Encounters UFO Over Long Island From: FS337211@Sol.YorkU.CA Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:11:09 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:18:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Saudi Jetliner Encounters UFO Over Long Island Hi Errol, While listening to the radio (CFRB 1010) this morning just after 7:00 a.m. I heard something about a Saudia airline pilot report seeing a luminous(?) wheel in the sky near where TWA flight 800 went down. I taped recorded the following news report from CFRB a half hour later. "In the United States, the FBI has been interviewing the crew of a Saudia jet which reported a radar lock on something that flashed through the sky last night in the area over the Atlantic where TWA's flight 800 exploded during the summer. Some of those who have been investigating that crash, flight 800, have suggested a missle may have been responsible." Later on at 8:00 a.m. CFRB added something about a green flare to this story. This UFO sighting is in addition to one posted by UFO UpDates recently about a Pakistan International 747 crew which saw a "dark shape with four green lights" a few miles ahead of them, near the location where TWA flight 800 went down. This earlier UFO sighting was confirmed by another TWA plane flying behind the Pakistan International plane (they asked to turn back) and was also detected by ground radar (the air corridor was later closed). Do you think these recent UFO sightings are related to the many earlier UFO crash reports in the same general area (see Leonard Stringfield's Status Report VI, some related LIUFON videos that Tom Theofanous has, etc.) and the mysterious downing of TWA flight 800 and possibly even the arrest of UFO investigator John Ford? I expect to be in the area visiting friends and relatives before just before Christmas. Is there anything I can do or check out in person? Bye for now. Nick Balaskas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 DISPATCH #33 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:05:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:25:30 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH #33 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #33 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 12/12/96 Quote of the Week "Thank that kid with the nose ring and green hair for helping to revive the labor movement in America." --Michael Moore, filmmaker, agitator and author of "Downsize This! Random Threats from an Unarmed American," commenting on the union-busting tactics of the Borders bookstore chain. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Win A Trip to Roswell, New Mexico! Time is running out if you're interested in winning a free trip to Roswell, NM. ParaScope is pleased to join with iNSCAPE, the makers of the Drowned God CD-ROM game, to offer you a chance to visit the site of the infamous 1947 Roswell UFO crash, absolutely free. On AOL, click on any Drowned God banner in the ParaScope area, or go to keyword: drownedgod. On the web, click on any Drowned God banner of visit the Drowned God site at www.inscape.com. And if you haven't yet played the game, your missing your best chance to out how free masons, aliens, free energy, ancient cultures and UFOs are all connected in a conspiracy thousands of years old. You have been warned! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ How About $5,000 in Cash?! OK, so maybe you've been to Roswell. How does $5,000 sound? Enter the ParaScope/Shopper's Advantage Instant Winner Sweepstakes, and you could walk away with the $5,000 grand prize, or a Canon computer, or one of 15 28.8 Zoom modems. Some lucky winners will be chosen online instantly. You know the drill, of course: you can't win if you don't enter. Find the Instant Winner banner in ParaScope's AOL site and click to see if you're a winner. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Moore Than He Bargained For When Michael Moore, the mad genius behind the documentary "Roger & Me" and the short-lived but hilarious "TV Nation" show, signed on to tour the country's Borders bookstores to promote his new book, he found out he was in for more than he bargained for. In short, as a result of his efforts to expose the union-busting tactics of Borders books at his various Borders book-signing appearances, Moore was all but branded a conspiracy looney by Borders Spokesperson Jody Kohn. When Moore accused Borders of trying to gag him by canceling his speeches and only allowing him to sign books, and later ostensibly banning him from their stores altogether, Borders' Kohn told the Miami New Times that Moore's "paranoia" had gotten the better of him, saying Moore was suffering from a "persecution complex." Our congratulations to Michael Moore, who proves that you don't have to be a so-called militant right-wing extremist to be branded a "paranoid" by slimy corporate spin doctors! For complete details on Michael Moore's battle of wits with the witless Borders book chain, visit ParaScope this week. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Read these stories on AOL on the designated dates, or catch them all at once next Thursday on our web site. Monday, Dec. 16: Another Look at Hale-Bopp The maelstrom of controversy preceding the arrival of "wormwood" has been fraught with baseless speculation. According to some reports, even the Pope is in on it. In a (perhaps) futile attempt to steer debate on the subject back towards reality, ParaScope presents a new photo analysis by special correspondent Alfredo Garcia indicating that the much-ballyhooed "Saturn Like Object" accompanying the Hale-Bopp comet is nothing more than the star SAO 141894...seen through the diffraction of paranoid hysteria. ----------- Tuesday, Dec. 17: Remembering the El Mozote Massacre In December, 1981 (15 years ago this month), the elite, U.S.-trained Atlacatl Battalion of the Salvadoran Army marched into the village of El Mozete and massacred everyone. Everyone. Several hundred Salvadoran peasants were slaughtered, but the Reagan administration, eager to aid the counterinsurgency effort in El Salvador, tried to write off reports of the incident as guerilla propaganda. Dossier editor Jon Elliston presents the ugly facts and original-source documents behind one of the most disturbing, illustrative cases in the history of human rights abuses by U.S.-backed dirty warriors. ----------- Wednesday, Dec. 18: Big Brother's New X-Ray Specs Remember buying those x-ray specs from the back of Marvel comics when you were a kid? Of course they didn't work. But the Pentagon can throw enough money at a problem to turn science fiction into science fact. Now there's a new weapon in the arsenal of those who believe safety is more important than freedom: the "Passive Millimetre Wave Imager." This dandy new innovation uses electromagnetic waves emitted by human flesh to detect concealed weapons, drugs and other boogeyman props. Are you ready to get naked for Big Brother? ----------- Thursday, Dec. 19: Lone Star Stonehenge After a Texas real estate developer built a replica of Stonehenge and then went broke, local Pagans took advantage of the situation and turned the statues into a temple. Naturally, conflict ensued (not to mention Spinal Tap's disappointment that the monument had already been claimed). From the man who told you about maggot surgery, the telepathic terrier and the cult of the penis snatchers, who else but Enigma editor D. Trull could bring you such a wacky tale of the strange but true? ----------- Friday, Dec. 20: The Waco Massacre: A Tragedy Remembered Nearly four years ago, 80 men, women and children were incinerated at the Mt. Carmel church complex near Waco, Texas. ParaScope takes a look back at the murderous fiasco that spawned a freedom movement. Read Branch Davidian survivor Livingstone Fagan's manuscript on the BATF raid, Koresh's teachings and the End Times; explore the scorched debris of Mt. Carmel through articles, weblinks and a Waco photo collection. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:08:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:33:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Regarding... >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance >Date: Fri, 06 Dec 96 08:22:46 GMT >>I've already discussed this at length with Bob Shell, that's one of the reasons I know it was never Bob or anyone else's "joke". That's also the reason I don't understand why you think Bob will confirm the "joke" explanation.<< >It was a joke by Bob Shell and I've asked him to confirm this.< Philip, If you're still with us... It's Bob's comments we really need to hear now. You'll hopefully then understand why the genesis of this entire matter had little to do with humour and rather more to do with someone being unhappy about the money his colleagues were claiming to make, whilst his own efforts were not being financially rewarded. Bob's been off-line for a while and when he's back, I'm sure his comments will be of interest. James. Internet; 100626.2242@compuserve.com __________________________________________ James, Philip Mantle's address was bouncing messages from here, resulting in his removal from the List. Once a week I send a 'testing' message to 'lost subscribers' and if they respond I re-add their addresses. He may or may not get the above. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 18:49:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:18:07 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 There is no mystery about my Receipt of SOM 1.01.. The First sentence on p.161 of TOP SECRET/MAJIC is "In December 1994, I learned of what is perhaps the mother of all Majestic 12 Documents! I was on the phone with Don Berliner who is a member of the Board of the Fund For UFO Research when Don let slip that he had received another MJ-12 Document in March." Don in an article in IUR stated he had determined to keep the document away from those who had expressed pro or anti- sentiments. about MJ-12. He was half successful. MJ-12 bashers Weaver and Todd were aware of it by the end of April. He was upset about its appearance in TSM. It was well over a year after I received it that it was out with much more being published than I anticipated. STF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Wormwood? From: ng@shannon.tellabs.com (Nick Gleeson) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 14:38 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:21:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? > Subject: Wormwood? > Posted on the Art Bell website... http://www.artbell.com > From: Name@Withheld > To: artbell@aol.com > Date: 96-12-11 00:33:29 EST > Dear Mr. Bell, > I have listened to your program off and on for around two years now, > whenever I get "down-time". I have some disturbing information and I fell > that your program would be the perfect vehicle with which to distribute what > I have. > I have been under the employ of the Vatican for over five years. I > have done what could best be described as counter-intelligence work, for the > church. I am a man of God and please believe me when I tell you that the > information I have is genuine, and very serious. > Without going into too much detail about my former employers, I will > briefly tell you that I have had a Top Level security clearance in the > Vatican for quite some time. Most of the work I have done regrettably falls > into the realm of "black-ops", and I will not go into detail about that now. <-snip-> > --PRIEST-- Sheesh!, What a load of codswallop, what sad individual's drean up this kind of crap, Its not even technically correct, all this rubbish about encrypted files and special terminals. All totally unfounded and anonymous as usual (yawn), this stuff is nearly as bad as all that Hale-Bopp rubbish. Why do these twisted individuals insist on trying to sully what should be a serious research subject, do they not have a life to get on with? Wormwood, HA! more like BrainWorm. -Niko.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 04:44:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:32:24 -0500 Subject: Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:27:56 -0600 (CST) >X-Sender: dstacy@texas.net >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever >Velez: NOPE! I firmly believe that we are dealing with a physical (as in >occupies 3 dimensional space, and has mass and substance) phenomenon. I >believe that if you knock on a UFO you'll hear the "Ping"! > >Sasquatch: Then you have a dilemma, don't you? You've both had the same >experience, but one of you thinks it was at the hands of physical ETs and >the other doesn't. Now what is an outsider like me -- indeed, _any_ >outsider -- supposed to make of this situation? You can't fault me for >being confused... I'm not sure that Whitley has denied their "physicality" My take on his remarks was that he thought they had the ability to pop in or out of (or may have originated from) other dimensions. Not sure Dennis, maybe you're right and he has said that. Whitley if your lurking, could you clarify this for us please. The man raises a valid point and it deserves clarification. >if the heart of the experience is such that it can support both >"interpretations," as well as others. Despite the disparity, there is a core of reported attendent phenomena that fall into a narrow and pretty specific range. Perhaps by eliminating items that are only reported once, by single individuals it would make it easier to inventory what's left and then begin an analysis of the material that crops up again and again. I hear you though, I found Macks book to be full of contradictory accounts myself. There was material that I could relate to immediately and then there was stuff that I couldn't identify or identify with. Believe me, I appreciate the dillema that anyone that tackles this material is confronted with. I wasn't trying to censor your "theory" Dennis I jumped in to redflag you over the Strieber comment and to tell you my oppinion. Don't let my New york gruffness make you feel like there's anything personal in it. I am grateful to anyone who takes the time of their lives to help figure this mess out. >Sas: And what "personal issues" would those be, John? Are you saying that >I'm not allowed to ask questions and propose theories? Would never do that nor did I. I only expressed in maybe too personal terms what (I) as an experiencer thought of it. (And between you and me I still think it's a pig in a poke, but then it's just my oppinion and nothing more. Am I supposed to go see a psychiatrist because I came up with a theory that attempts to grapple with the Roper Report numbers,... Nope. Only if you believe that the abduction experiences can all, or even partially be explained by fetal/infanticidal guilt complex. It 'sounded ' to me like a projection on your part of some personal issue. That's how far out I thought it was, I had trouble figuring out where you got it from. If I was wrong, I believe EBK has a wet piece of lettuce laying about that you can beat me senseless with. <G> >I would be perfectly happy personally if the Roper numbers would just go >away, in which case there wouldn't be any need for a theory like mine. But >abductionologists continue to cite them as if they really meant something. You'll get no arguement from me. I agree that the Roper numbers are "questionable". The sheer numbers of aliens and flying saucers required to abduct so many individuals would fill the skies and we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, there are a large number of apparently sane and ordinary individuals reporting abduction related experiences. Maybe what's needed is another more specific poll. I don't know what it would prove, but maybe that's whats needed to put this Roper business to rest. Do you know if anyone is contemplating such a poll? >Are you paranoid? Where is there the least suggestion in what >I've said that I'm trying to get you or anyone else to "just go away"? Telling me to keep my mouth shut in my eyes is tantamount to saying "go away" And, I only get paranoid when I see bright lights shining thru my window at night. Or when I awaken suddenly to find a group of small bug eyed beings surrounding the bed. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that crap like that would make you paranoid too! <G> >While you're here, though, there is one thing I wish you'd do and that's >read David Hufford's "The Terror That Comes in the Night: An >Experience-Centered Study of Supernatural Assault Traditions," University >>of Pennsylvania Press, 1982. Your library should have it, and I believe a >paperback edition is still in print. ISBN 0-8122-7851-8. I'll try to get my mits on it and give it a read. Is Hufford an MHP? >To return briefly but to one other issue you raised: anomalous scars and >scoop marks. Have you ever heard of stigmata? Do you then believe that >individuals who suffer or display same were crucified by real Roman >soldiers? There is a vast body of literature, medical, religious, >>anecdotal and other dealing with the remarkable ability of the mind to >>influence matter, in this case the human body. I don't think it's a valid comparison for two reasons Dennis. 1- We don't bleed from the palms, ribs, and feet. Stigmata BTW is a "temporary" manifestation, the episodes pass and the (what do you call them?) stigmatee returns to normal with little or no evidence of the cuts. (I've only heard of one case where the individual retained scars after the experience. A young girl from Italy, sorry, don't remember her name or just where I read it. 2- I posted an open invitation on my website along side the photo's of the abductees bodys for physicians to comment on the marks and scars. I've gotten two replys. One from a general practioner and one from a radiologiat that specialises in neurological radiology. Both identified the scoop marks as being identical in size and appearance to what they called a "Punch biopsy" I've asked some of the folks (I couldn't reach them all) if they have ever had such a proceedure, the response was a uniform NO. Splain dat one Reeky! >There are also thousands of people today who testify to sexual abuse and >satanic cults (and sacrifice) for which there is absolutely no objective >evidence whatsoever. Should one conclude from that there is absolutely no >sexual abuse nor satanic cults anywhere? Of course not. One nonetheless >remains obliged to come up with some theory that would account for the >obviously "false" cases, even when the experiencer of same may remain >completely convinced of the reality of their experience. In some cases they >are simply (and demonstrably) wrong -- which hasn't prevented the ruin of >numerous lives. (Maybe you ought to take in the new movie of Arthur Miller's >"The Crucible" this weekend and think deeply about any possible >implications, assuming you don't consider that another "insulting" exercise >on my part.) I don't have any personal experience or knowledge of Satan or any of his fan clubs. I do about aliens though. Yeah I'm sure there are some that are simply adopting the symptoms for reasons of their own, but the majority of the folks that I deal with show no "obvious" psychotic traits. When someone is screwed up it bleeds through into other aspects of their personalities and behavior. If they are screwed up, their lives are screwed up, and they sound screwed up. Contrary to popular belief it's easy to spot a genuine "looney," they are in trouble and it shows. Granted, not in all cases. But the folks presenting abduction experiences (for the most part) are very ordinary family and working people who have found themselves in the confusing and life disrupting position of having to deal with experiences they cannot explain any other way. No BS Dennis, I would rather believe that I snapped a bridge cable. But EVERYTHING points the other way. Do I "sound" nuts to you? I'm not, and neither are (many) that I have come to know on a much better than casual basis. We quite literally have to be investigated on a case to case basis which makes the job all the more complex and challenging. But not impossible. >I'm sorry you didn't like the answer I came up with. I'll try to do better >next time. I'm sure you will. If at first you don't succeed,.....Hey Dennis, why not look into the possibility of rock concert induced brain damage? Lord knows I've been to plenty of those in my lifetime! Look at what rock music did to those greenhouse plants that they exposed to a steady diet of heavy guitar, and drums! <G> >In the meantime, not going nowhere, neither... Good! A chicken from texas would of necessity have to be extremely large! Three-and-a-half foot tall aliens are one thing, but a 6'5" tall chicken is something else altogether! How would we explain (its) existence? <G> Take care sas, I'm sure our trails will cross again. It's in the stars! John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 BWW Media Alert 961213 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:15:19 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:35:07 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 961213 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) December 13, 1996 "Tis the season to be tired..." A fairly slow week...at least I can give you summaries on STRANGE UNIVERSE again, although summaries on MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES are not currently available. Had a little trouble accessing websites again, so some may be sketchier this time. I've also been asked about it, and I will do another regular Bufo's WEIRD WORLD soon. It'll probably be the annual YEAR IN WEIRD issue. WARNING: the puns and asides in this issue are particularly obscure. Feel free to ask me to explain any of them :) COOL STUFF TO BUY SUNCOAST MOTION PICTURE COMPANY, a nation-wide chain of mall stores, has 20% off on their "alien trend" material through Christmas. While that includes ficitonal stuff like ID4, I also saw that they had the elusive Shadowbox Collectibles alien series ("action figure" type guys of actually reported alien types, including trading cards). Getting hold of TICKLE ME ELMO has been easier than getting some of these, so I'd rush down and buy them out. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: Peter Graves hosts. A "mysterious wrestler" does the Superman thing and picks up a car (Santo and the Blue Demon, perhaps?); an out-of-body experience is involved with a fire rescue PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) -WEEK OF 12/9 (#102R, repeat): POSSESSION (married couple may be demon-infected); MAN OUT OF TIME (a man claims to be from the 17th Century..."Samantha!!!") Saturday, December 14 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 9:00 AM, A&E, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOS? (Michael Dorn narrates) 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: THE RIDDLE OF THE STONES (no, this has nothing to do with Mick Jagger's lips! It has to do with ancient stone designs in England...as opposed to ancient stoned designs in San Francisco) 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL: SIGHTINGS (#5054) (still can't get info a week ahead at this point about content...as of Saturday, check http://www.scifi.com/sightings for info) 10:30 PM, THE FAMILY CHANNEL: SECRETS OF THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE (1977) Sunday, December 15 2:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5054): no details available 2:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5054): no details available SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND (see http://www.artbell.com for stations): no details available, so may be a re-run. 7:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, MYSTERIOUS INDIA Monday, December 16 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Ancient Astronauts (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#44): no details available Tuesday, December 17 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Exceptionally Hairy People...we'll see how "fur" they can go (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stationsand playtimes in your area) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#45): no details available 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: Near-Death Experiences Wednesday, December 18 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Psychics that help find missing children (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: Near-Death Experiences 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#46): no details available (their program summaries have run out...maybe when they refresh them, they can do them for SIGHTINGS, too, huh? Pretty please?) Thursday, December 19 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: "unusual sexual practices" "Hari today, orgone tomorrow?" (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#47): no details available Friday, December 20 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, GORDON ELLIOTT: Near-Death Experiences SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Cassadega, Florida, which is a town that has a lot of psychics (gee, I wonder if the area code is 900? Ba-da-boom! I'll bet they don't sell a lot of road maps in that town, huh?) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIS, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#48): no details available 8:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5055): no details available This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ------------------------------------------------- You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 13:09:16 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:20:28 -0500 Subject: Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever SA Sasquatch said; >There are also thousands of people today who testify to sexual abuse and >satanic cults (and sacrifice) for which there is absolutely no objective >evidence whatsoever. For the life of me, I cannot fathom such blatantly ignorant statements. Your statement above is false! There is much more than "objective" evidence for this, there is much physical evidence. I know from experience that Nazi skinhead ties to Satanic ritual are indeed fact! Why do I know this? Because after the FBI sent a courier to pick up the physical evidence I had collected, including a long list of 'members' from the surrounding areas, the red cord of death and the Satanic Bible and all the incantations, I got a call thanking me. These people were into abducting children and killing them in Satanic rituals. Count the missing children, Sasquatch, and count the ones that have been found. Call it 'objective' evidence. So, when it comes to UFOs there is evidence. Subjective evidence from witnesses, Physical evidence, photographic evidence. For those who have had no direct experience there remains only two options - Belief or skepticism. Maybe you can explain to me why the Secret Service has a copy of the UFO I videotaped 11/15/95 on file? Should they take advice such as you espouse or should they follow the mandates they work by? The government knows the truth. Why don't you? ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Solar System Moon Studied From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:58:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:22:45 -0500 Subject: Solar System Moon Studied --------------------- Forwarded message: From: AOLNewsProfiles@aol.net Date: 96-12-13 08:18:36 EST .c The Associated Press</I></PRE></HTML> By JANE E. ALLEN AP Science Writer LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The solar system's largest moon has all the characteristics of a planet, including a cocoon of magnetic particles similar to the one enveloping Earth, scientists say. The evidence of the planet-like characteristics of Jupiter's huge moon Ganymede were revealed by audio recordings relayed to Earth from the Galileo spacecraft, scientists said Thursday. The soaring whistle and hissing static provide evidence that Ganymede -- three-fourths the size of Mars -- has its own planet-like, magnetic field called a magnetosphere. Such a region of hot, ionized gases and highly charged particles never before has been found around a moon. Donald Gurnett, a University of Iowa physicist and Galileo researcher, said the noise is consistent with magnetospheres he's studied on Earth, Saturn and Jupiter. He said the spacecraft's approach to Ganymede was quiet ``until all of a sudden, there's a big burst of noise that signals the entry into Ganymede's magnetosphere. Then for about 50 minutes we detected the kinds of noises that are typical of a passage through a magnetosphere.'' Ganymede, 3,269 miles across, has ridges, icy grooves and craters that hint at an Earthlike crust that pulls apart and fills in with flowing rock. NASA is preparing for next Thursday's encounter with Jupiter's moon Europa, suspected of hiding a frozen ocean and possibly life beneath its fractured, icy crust. The unmanned Galileo spacecraft, now making a two-year tour of Jupiter and its largest moons, will come within 433 miles of Europa. AP-NY-12-13-96 0812EST Copyright 1996 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.</I></PRE></HTML> Search for other documents from or mentioning: rschatte |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Moulton Howe From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 07:09:05 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:36:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Moulton Howe > > > For those following Hale-Bopp, this may be of interest. > > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > [snip] > > > There you have the establishment astronomers' statement on this issue. > > > And that is exactly _all_ it was, remembering the broad assumptions > > _they_ made with regard to an _expected_ world view: that physics is > > understood, and there are no surprises left in a universe we cannot even > > see the end of . . .human arrogance can be more stupefying than its > > > ignorance. Moreover, it matters not so much whether Hale-Bopp even _has_ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Huh? You mean, you don't care that this whole thing has been a >travesty > promoted to guillible UFO buffs? Not when I remember that it is the haughty arrogance of attitudes such as you display here that is the instrument of their gullibility -- no, I don't care. _Look_ how _you_ label the mass of us as idiotic . . . Or, you meant "gullible buff" in a _good_ way. . . Besides, I don't _know_ (SAME as you) that what's promoted _is_ a travesty. My mind is still open, as should be yours. > > Or, probably what you really mean is that it doesn't *matter* that > there isn't really a companion object, because buffs will believe > whatever they want and continue hyping stuff because of Millenial > Fever. No, just what we are *compelled* to believe in a country that has a thirty billion dollar black budget, where a former governor of a state can publicly shake the hand of a bigoted murderer, or where streets, boulevards, and monumental buildings can be named after vicious sociopaths like J. Edgar Hoover. In your world the crusades were a noble enterprise, our education system is an unfettered reach towards light, and Nixon told the truth. In your world NASA scientists don't rip off the work of earlier researchers, like they did in _my_ world regarding the Mars rock. Further, I am saying that paradigms have been shattered before, and all the misery seemed to come from those that had the most artificial position to lose. I don't resent your questions on the issue of a companion for Hale-Bopp, I resent the smirk that drips from your disdaining educated expressions, expressions that you do not admit are couched in certain assumptions (with regard to density, IR, and gravitational acceleration et al) that may not apply in this very singular first time experience. May not -- perhaps -- possibly -- perchance. It may be that Aristotle's crystal spheres are to be smashed again -- will your *educated priesthood* thrash, argue, prevaricate, and otherwise cloud and complicate the issue, as they have done in times past? On that we can count! You say No? Ha! _There_ is your arrogance! > > > a companion -- it is our corrosive reaction to its mere *suggestion* > > that really chaps _my_ ass. > > If a strong determination to present the truth and correct > misrepresented facts or errors is a "corrrosive reaction", then so be > it. Uh huh -- Grand proclamation, you stretch the presence of "presented truths", and "corrected fact" a little thinly over the evidence of photographs of a *terrific* comet, BY FAR AND AWAY more interesting than any of the last comets (ANY of them), that is ignored like the last comets NEVER WERE! You don't find that ODD? > > As for your ass, I'd suggest some Johnson's Lotion. Ha! (slapping knee)Good one! But Alas! Even the touch of your healing lips to my irritation would be as lemon juice to a paper cut. I'm not a believer, but I _can_ believe. Does your bumbling late 20th century scientific hubris burn that _out_ of you? Yeah! That's right -- bumbling! If not prey to the hubris I expose then we would already have colonized the asteroid belt, and the DOW would be at 100 thousand. Don't think that you are helping a rationalist scientific position; not for a minute. Your proud and arrogant smirk does not encourage a positive reception of your position. It only demonstrates how much fun you have laughing at a bewildered (but intelligent) under educated that has developed a sense of when a haughty elitist's hunting dog _might_ be peeing on their foot. . . .Can't wait to see what you do with the hunting dog allusion . . . Lehmberg@snowhill.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Saudi Jetliner Encounters UFO Over Long Island From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:56:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:27:18 -0500 Subject: Saudi Jetliner Encounters UFO Over Long Island Hi, EBK! Here we go again! At 6:40 p.m. this evening, Thursday, December 12, CNN reported that a Saudi jetliner encountered a UFO over Moriches Bay on the southern short of Long Island. The encounter reportedly happened at 6 a.m., shortly after the plane's takeoff from Kennedy International Airport. The pilot described the UFO as "a greenish white light with a long tail." The FBI reportedly debriefed the Saudi flight crew when they arrived at their destination, Dulles International Airport outside Washington, D.C. at 7:30 a.m. I'll send more details as they become available.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 04:44:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:19:38 -0500 Subject: Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:27:56 -0600 (CST) >X-Sender: dstacy@texas.net >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> >Subject: The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever >Velez: NOPE! I firmly believe that we are dealing with a physical (as in >occupies 3 dimensional space, and has mass and substance) phenomenon. I >believe that if you knock on a UFO you'll hear the "Ping"! > >Sasquatch: Then you have a dilemma, don't you? You've both had the same >experience, but one of you thinks it was at the hands of physical ETs and >the other doesn't. Now what is an outsider like me -- indeed, _any_ >outsider -- supposed to make of this situation? You can't fault me for >being confused... I'm not sure that Whitley has denied their "physicality" My take on his remarks was that he thought they had the ability to pop in or out of (or may have originated from) other dimensions. Not sure Dennis, maybe you're right and he has said that. Whitley if your lurking, could you clarify this for us please. The man raises a valid point and it deserves clarification. >if the heart of the experience is such that it can support both >"interpretations," as well as others. Despite the disparity, there is a core of reported attendent phenomena that fall into a narrow and pretty specific range. Perhaps by eliminating items that are only reported once, by single individuals it would make it easier to inventory what's left and then begin an analysis of the material that crops up again and again. I hear you though, I found Macks book to be full of contradictory accounts myself. There was material that I could relate to immediately and then there was stuff that I couldn't identify or identify with. Believe me, I appreciate the dillema that anyone that tackles this material is confronted with. I wasn't trying to censor your "theory" Dennis I jumped in to redflag you over the Strieber comment and to tell you my oppinion. Don't let my New york gruffness make you feel like there's anything personal in it. I am grateful to anyone who takes the time of their lives to help figure this mess out. >Sas: And what "personal issues" would those be, John? Are you saying that >I'm not allowed to ask questions and propose theories? Would never do that nor did I. I only expressed in maybe too personal terms what (I) as an experiencer thought of it. (And between you and me I still think it's a pig in a poke, but then it's just my oppinion and nothing more. Am I supposed to go see a psychiatrist because I came up with a theory that attempts to grapple with the Roper Report numbers,... Nope. Only if you believe that the abduction experiences can all, or even partially be explained by fetal/infanticidal guilt complex. It 'sounded ' to me like a projection on your part of some personal issue. That's how far out I thought it was, I had trouble figuring out where you got it from. If I was wrong, I believe EBK has a wet piece of lettuce laying about that you can beat me senseless with. <G> >I would be perfectly happy personally if the Roper numbers would just go >away, in which case there wouldn't be any need for a theory like mine. But >abductionologists continue to cite them as if they really meant something. You'll get no arguement from me. I agree that the Roper numbers are "questionable". The sheer numbers of aliens and flying saucers required to abduct so many individuals would fill the skies and we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, there are a large number of apparently sane and ordinary individuals reporting abduction related experiences. Maybe what's needed is another more specific poll. I don't know what it would prove, but maybe that's whats needed to put this Roper business to rest. Do you know if anyone is contemplating such a poll? >Are you paranoid? Where is there the least suggestion in what >I've said that I'm trying to get you or anyone else to "just go away"? Telling me to keep my mouth shut in my eyes is tantamount to saying "go away" And, I only get paranoid when I see bright lights shining thru my window at night. Or when I awaken suddenly to find a group of small bug eyed beings surrounding the bed. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that crap like that would make you paranoid too! <G> >While you're here, though, there is one thing I wish you'd do and that's >read David Hufford's "The Terror That Comes in the Night: An >Experience-Centered Study of Supernatural Assault Traditions," University >>of Pennsylvania Press, 1982. Your library should have it, and I believe a >paperback edition is still in print. ISBN 0-8122-7851-8. I'll try to get my mits on it and give it a read. Is Hufford an MHP? >To return briefly but to one other issue you raised: anomalous scars and >scoop marks. Have you ever heard of stigmata? Do you then believe that >individuals who suffer or display same were crucified by real Roman >soldiers? There is a vast body of literature, medical, religious, >>anecdotal and other dealing with the remarkable ability of the mind to >>influence matter, in this case the human body. I don't think it's a valid comparison for two reasons Dennis. 1- We don't bleed from the palms, ribs, and feet. Stigmata BTW is a "temporary" manifestation, the episodes pass and the (what do you call them?) stigmatee returns to normal with little or no evidence of the cuts. (I've only heard of one case where the individual retained scars after the experience. A young girl from Italy, sorry, don't remember her name or just where I read it. 2- I posted an open invitation on my website along side the photo's of the abductees bodys for physicians to comment on the marks and scars. I've gotten two replys. One from a general practioner and one from a radiologiat that specialises in neurological radiology. Both identified the scoop marks as being identical in size and appearance to what they called a "Punch biopsy" I've asked some of the folks (I couldn't reach them all) if they have ever had such a proceedure, the response was a uniform NO. Splain dat one Reeky! >There are also thousands of people today who testify to sexual abuse and >satanic cults (and sacrifice) for which there is absolutely no objective >evidence whatsoever. Should one conclude from that there is absolutely no >sexual abuse nor satanic cults anywhere? Of course not. One nonetheless >remains obliged to come up with some theory that would account for the >obviously "false" cases, even when the experiencer of same may remain >completely convinced of the reality of their experience. In some cases they >are simply (and demonstrably) wrong -- which hasn't prevented the ruin of >numerous lives. (Maybe you ought to take in the new movie of Arthur Miller's >"The Crucible" this weekend and think deeply about any possible >implications, assuming you don't consider that another "insulting" exercise >on my part.) I don't have any personal experience or knowledge of Satan or any of his fan clubs. I do about aliens though. Yeah I'm sure there are some that are simply adopting the symptoms for reasons of their own, but the majority of the folks that I deal with show no "obvious" psychotic traits. When someone is screwed up it bleeds through into other aspects of their personalities and behavior. If they are screwed up, their lives are screwed up, and they sound screwed up. Contrary to popular belief it's easy to spot a genuine "looney," they are in trouble and it shows. Granted, not in all cases. But the folks presenting abduction experiences (for the most part) are very ordinary family and working people who have found themselves in the confusing and life disrupting position of having to deal with experiences they cannot explain any other way. No BS Dennis, I would rather believe that I snapped a bridge cable. But EVERYTHING points the other way. Do I "sound" nuts to you? I'm not, and neither are (many) that I have come to know on a much better than casual basis. We quite literally have to be investigated on a case to case basis which makes the job all the more complex and challenging. But not impossible. >I'm sorry you didn't like the answer I came up with. I'll try to do better >next time. I'm sure you will. If at first you don't succeed,.....Hey Dennis, why not look into the possibility of rock concert induced brain damage? Lord knows I've been to plenty of those in my lifetime! Look at what rock music did to those greenhouse plants that they exposed to a steady diet of heavy guitar, and drums! <G> >In the meantime, not going nowhere, neither... Good! A chicken from texas would of necessity have to be extremely large! Three-and-a-half foot tall aliens are one thing, but a 6'5" tall chicken is something else altogether! How would we explain (its) existence? <G> Take care sas, I'm sure our trails will cross again. It's in the stars! John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Ganymede Found to Have a 'Voice' From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:59:16 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:34:15 -0500 Subject: Ganymede Found to Have a 'Voice' Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC December 12, 1996 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Mary Beth Murrill Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 96-255 BIG ICY MOON OF JUPITER FOUND TO HAVE A 'VOICE' AFTER ALL; EUROPA FLYBY NEXT FOR GALILEO Jupiter's big moon Ganymede is not only the size of a planet -- it sounds like one too, as heard in audio recordings made from data returned by NASA's Galileo spacecraft released today. Characterized by a soaring whistle and hissing static, Ganymede's song reveals that the Solar System's largest moon is also the only one known to possess a planet-like, self- generated magnetic cocoon called a magnetosphere, which shields the moon from the magnetic influence of its giant parent body, Jupiter. Published in the scientific journal Nature this week, these new Galileo findings and other measurements from several Galileo sensors were presented today in a news briefing held at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. Taken together, scientists say the new Ganymede findings are painting a portrait of a body that from the inside out closely resembles a planet like Earth rather than other moons in the Solar System. "The data we get back is in the form of a spectrogram, and reading it is kind of like looking at a musical score," said Dr. Donald Gurnett, University of Iowa physicist and principal investigator on Galileo's plasma wave instrument. It was his experiment that first detected the telltale signals of a magnetosphere during the spacecraft's close flybys of that moon on June 27 and Sept. 6. Gurnett said the unique pattern of frequencies his instrument detected is characteristic of a magnetosphere and closely matches his previous studies of the magnetospheres of Earth, Saturn and Jupiter. "The instant I saw the spectrogram, I could tell we had passed through a magnetosphere at Ganymede," Gurnett said. Describing the electromagnetic wave activity that his experiment detected at Ganymede, Gurnett said the approach to the large moon was relatively quiet, "until all of a sudden, there's a big burst of noise that signals the entry into Ganymede's magnetosphere. Then, for about 50 minutes, we detected the kinds of noises that are typical of a passage through a magnetosphere. As we exited the magnetosphere, there was another big burst of noise." Gurnett checked with Dr. Margaret Kivelson of the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA), principal investigator for the magnetometer experiment on the spacecraft. Kivelson confirmed the detection of a large increase in magnetic field strength near Ganymede. Related data from the two close flybys have confirmed that Ganymede has a magnetic field of its own. Using extremely precise data from tracking the spacecraft, investigators on Galileo's celestial mechanics team also have been able to confirm that Ganymede's interior is differentiated, probably having a three-layer structure. "These data show clearly that Ganymede has differentiated into a core and mantle, which is in turn enclosed by an ice shell," said JPL planetary scientist Dr. John Anderson, team leader on the Galileo radio science experiment. "Combined with the discovery of an intrinsic magnetic field, our gravity results indicate that Ganymede has a metallic core about 250 to 800 miles in," said Anderson. "This is surrounded by a rocky silicate mantle, which is in turn enclosed by an ice shell about 500 miles thick. Depending on whether the core is pure iron or an alloy of iron and iron sulfide, it could account for as little as 1.4 percent or as much as one-third of the total mass of Ganymede." This differentiated structure is the most likely cause of Ganymede's newly discovered magnetic field, which in turn gives rise to the magnetosphere, reported UCLA geophysicist Dr. Gerald Schubert, an interdisciplinary investigator on Galileo's science team. Scientists suspect Ganymede's magnetic field is generated the same way as Earth's, through the dynamo action of the fluid mantle rotating above a metallic core. The only other solid bodies in the Solar System known to have magnetic fields are Mercury, Earth and possibly Jupiter's volcanic moon Io. "At Ganymede, the magnetic field is strong enough to carve out a magnetosphere with clearly defined boundaries within Jupiter's magnetosphere, making it the only 'magnetosphere within a magnetosphere' known in the Solar System," Kivelson said. The strong magnetic characteristics of Ganymede, in combination with its residence within Jupiter's powerful magnetosphere, make the Jovian environment even more intriguing, said Galileo project scientists Dr. Torrence V. Johnson. "The physics taking place within Jupiter's magnetosphere are of great interest to scientists attempting to understand the complex interplay of magnetic forces and matter throughout the universe," he said. Data from the plasma wave instrument can be heard and seen on the Galileo home page at the following URL: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo Newly received Galileo images of Jupiter's moon Callisto and one of Europa also were released at the briefing. Scientists were surprised by the lack of small craters visible in the images. Some small craters appear to have been softened or modified by downslope movement of debris, revealing ice-rich surfaces. Galileo's next moon encounter occurs Dec. 18-19, when the spacecraft makes its first close approach to Europa, the moon thought to harbor a liquid ocean beneath its icy surface. Results from that flyby will be radioed to Earth starting in the last half of December through early February. The Europa image received from the spacecraft earlier this week shows the cracked surface of this moon in greater detail than it has been seen before. The new image shows an area 150 miles by 140 miles that has been highly disrupted by fractures and ridges. Arizona State University planetary scientist Dr. Kelly Bender of Galileo's imaging team said that symmetric ridges in the dark bands suggest that Europa's surface crust was separated and filled with darker material, somewhat analogous to spreading centers in the ocean basins of Earth. Although some impact craters are visible, their general absence indicates a youthful surface, she said. The youngest ridges, such as the two features that cross the center of the picture, have central fractures, aligned knobs, and irregular dark patches. These and other features could indicate cryovolcanism, or processes related to eruption of ice and gases. Galileo was launched in 1989 and entered orbit around Jupiter Dec. 7, 1995. The Galileo mission is managed by JPL for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Pope, Hubble telescope and Archbishop of Canterbury From: SKvs <bradford@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:40:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:26:27 -0500 Subject: Pope, Hubble telescope and Archbishop of Canterbury Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:19:56 -0500 To: sphinx@angus.mystery.com From: latrobe@mistral.co.uk (David Pinnegar) Subject: Pope, Hubble telescope and Archbishop of Canterbury Sender: owner-sphinx@angus.mystery.com Hi friends Most instrigued to hear that the Pope has a direct link to the Hubble Telescope. In a sermon last night the Archbishop of Canterbury said that he had been to see the Pope only last week. The Archbishop's sermon was on the theme of Christ's return and not knowing the date and the time. Chronos and chyros. Sounds as though that passage is on his mind . . . Yours, David P. _________________________________ David Pinnegar Hammerwood Park East Grinstead Sussex RH19 3QE - UK Fax +44 1342 850864 Tel 850594 email latrobe@mistral.co.uk site http://there.is/hammerwood With the comprehensive UK tourist link- site at http://there.is/tourlink and Comprehensive World Tourism at http://there.is/world HELP SAVE OUR STONEHENGE HERITAGE See http://there.is/stonehenge _______________________________ {#} ----------------------------------------------------+[ Sphinx ]+--- {#} The Sphinx Mailing List is sponsored by Geoffrey Keyte. Further {#} information about the Sphinx, the Hall of Records and Atlantis may {#} be found on our WWW pages. Our web address is: {#} {#} http://www.lightwork.dk/Mystical.Crystal/ {#} {#} Also AMARGILAND is to be found at:- {#} {#} http://www.amargiland.com/ "Nothing is as burdensome as a secret."-French proverb "People's minds are changed through observation and not through argument."-Will Rogers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 19:38:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:23:33 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 For Russ Estes: Your questions had imbedded in them a lot of false assumptions.. i.e. WPAF as the final destination for artifacts ; That Kevin hadn't acknowledged my work etc.. You talk about protocol as though you knew something about science and it wasn't necessary to do your homework before jumping in. I would be happy to send you a list of my publications. Does the Los Angeles Public Library include the International UFO Reporter, The Proceedings of the annual MUFON Symposia,testimony printed by a Congressional Committee, even Physics Today and Aeronautics and Astronautics more than 20 years ago on its data list? Feel free to take your marbles and go home if you feel insulted by my not just blindly responding to your questions which clearly indicated you hadn't done your homework. You might find my 10 page list of references in TOP SECRET?MAJIC of some interest as well. An archive is a place where various government related documents are stored. One of these days I might draw up a list for you if uyou insist. I didn't say I believed there have been saucers at Area 51 back to the 1940s. I said I had heard stories completely independent of Lazar about saucers there. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 07:47:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:35:58 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > >I think we have here the essence of the abductee-as-object versus the > >abductee-as-subject problem. > John the "problem" is, that I'm a human being, a person, not an > "object" in any sense of the word. You like the term "object" because > it depersonalizes us and that helps you to put a little more distance, > (another brick in the wall) that protects you from your fear of us, > and what we are reporting. You being a human being isn't a problem <grin>. Depersonalizing the abductee portion of the abduction phenomenon, in terms of doing research and investigation, is a _positive_ aspect but it isn't the only aspect. Greg likes to us the example of a rape case as a multi-faceted analogy to abductions. In a rape case the key evidence is always the physical and forensic evidence which is always presented _apart_ from the victim - the rapee doesn't get to present that evidence, it is presented apart from the rapee objectively. What is your basis for claiming that I fear you (and/or other abductees) and/or what you are reporting? Please understand that this isn't the first of these type of discussions that I've been involved in. It may be revealatory to you to think that others who do not respond emotionally to this information must therefore be fearful of it, but that just isn't the case. You are not the first experiencer to state that, in fact almost every outspoken experiencer I've talked with has reacted that way at first. I learned a long time ago that there are plenty of known things in this world worthy of being afraid and no point at all in being afraid of that which is (currently) unknown. I also understand the need many experiencers have to share the emotional aspect of their experiences with non-experiencers but I can assure you that it is impossible to create an experiencer from a non-experiencer simply by the force of your emotional presentation. > It's a means to sanitize and pidgeon hole us in a way that fits into > your limited world view. I'm not going to sit still while you try to > neatly tuck me into your little "box" and put me "out in the middle of > an empty parking lot" (at a safe distance) Did I quote you correctly? I don't know if the quote is accurate but its close enough, although you completely missed the point. The point was to give an example of the type of evidence that is most desirable, that being evidence that _anybody_ can evaluate and still come up with the same result/conclusion, evidence that is completely separate from the _people_ involved - impartial, impersonal and objective. If I only wanted the (kind of) evidence _I_ need to believe or disbelieve then I woudn't be here now, in fact I'd have been gone long ago, long before EBK and this List and you ever happenned - I collected that kind of evidence quite a long time ago. Are you so important and central to the abduction phenomenon that you have to be a personal part of the research and evidence? > See John, a person talks back, has oppinions and a validity that an > object does not. That's fine but it is largely irrelevant to the matter of collecting, verifying and presenting _evidence_. This is _not_ about parading a group of people across a stage and proclaiming, "Look! Aliens are here abducting people _because_ these people say so!" That form of research is identical to tent-revival preaching. > >We _don't_ know that so-called alien abductions are real, or have > >ever actually happenned. > I do! So do many others. Or is your "self proclaimed" view of reality > the only one worthy of consideration? You don't _know_, you have a set of personal experiences that are completely real to you. But they are your _personal_ experiences. _NO_ self-claimed view of reality is any more or less worthy of consideration than any other. This isn't about consideration. If this was about consideration then we could all take turns preaching at each with the point being to somehow emotionally persuade one another toward some feeling on an issue. You seem preoccupied with a quest to cause people to consider it possible that you were abducted by aliens. To what point? Numerous polls already show that a majority of people consider it possible. What does that _prove_? In a sense you're living in the past, people already made the step to considering it possible a long time ago, actually long before you arrived on the ufological scene. Perhaps I can save you some time by assuring you that considering it possible is a leap we _all_ made a _long_ time ago. But this isn't about considering it possible, its about proving it happenned. > "Reality" is not a fixed thing. We arrive > at its definition by "consensus" John. And as you well know, the > consensus can change! In terms of objective research reality is considered to be pretty much a fixed thing. Just because everybody chooses to think something happenned doesn't mean it did happen. If everybody on this List agreed by consesus that you were _not_ abducted then does that mean you were not abducted? The conceptof consensual reality is an interesting item for philosophical discussin but it has little relevancy to objective research and investigation. > >This is _NOT_ an on-line support group for abductees (EBK will > >correct me of I'm wrong). > John if you call what I'm getting from you "support".....<G> No, I don't call it support and I hope you're not here seeking or hoping for any theraputic assistance as this is the wrong group of people and the wrong venue for such. > >It is (and, again, EBK will correct me if I'm wrong) > >an on-line group of _active_ researchers, investigators and writers > >who _attempt_ to be impartial, impersonal and _objective_ (somewhere > >in the mix we also try to use formal and accepted standards of > >evidence, standards of research and investigation, and a wee bit of > >scientific methodology). > How very condescending of you John! I guess us poor whacko's don't > have any business participating in your lofty intellectual debates. > Sorry, I forgot, "objects" should be seen and not heard. I don't know of any reason why you or any other self-claimed abductee or experiencer can't be impartial or impersonal or objective. Perhaps you aren't capable of being impartial or impersonal or objective and that's why you think the statement was condescending? I have no idea... > >How much progress can we possibly make amongst ourselve if we are > >censored and self-censoring because one or another _hypothesis_ is or > >may be insulting to one or more self-claimed abductee!?!?! > I expressed an oppinion of Mr Stacys "theory" I didn't censor his > right to say it, or challenge that right. He crossed a line when he > singled out Whitley by name, and used him and his son (in an extremely > derogatry way) to make a "theoretical" point. It's wrong John. And > indicative of an attitude that (again) dehumanizes/depersonalizes us > all. Make your point without naming names. It was a cheap shot and I > redflagged him on it, what's your point? I think Dennis has already commented on why he used the Striebers as an example. I don't think it was a cheap shot. The tone of your previous message and this message contributes to a self-censoring atmosphere. > >Dennis never claimed you were or may be a party to an abortion. He > >stated an _impartial_ and _impersonal_ hypothesis. Your response was > >to directly (personally) ask him if he'd ever been party to an > >abortion. > There is nothing impartial or impersonal about using someones name. He > went out of his way to single Whitley out. I think my remarks in that > regard were pretty clear. Why are you trying to twist it into > something else? What's to twist? He mentioned the Striebers as an example, nothing more or less. Your response was quite different > >You used words such as "invasive," "tasteless," "unexcusable [sic]," > >"rude," "wrong," and "disrespectful." > Call em like I see em. And that's part of the point of this message. _Most_ of us _don't_ call them like we see them. Haven't you figured that out yet? It takes some effort to be impersonal, to be impartial and to be objective. We make that effort because we've learned the value of doing so. > >There's no possible way for us to verify abduction data, develop > >abduction data or related hypotheses if we are censored or if we > >become self-censoring. > I never "censored" anyone! I expressed my "oppinion" of Mr Stacys > "theory" How is that "censorship" John? It isn't directly censorship but it _does_ contribute to a self-censoring atmosphere. If folks see other people set upon in one personal attack after another simply because they advanced a hypothesis that is counter to the beliefs of some then they will _stop_ participating - they will self-censor themselves to avoid the aggravation. By the way, 'Hypothesis,' not 'Theory,' is the correct word. > >But words like "mere" and "disrespectful," and > >phrases like "wild off the wall," are completely inappropriate. > Who's censoring who John? <G> I know its difficult to be impartial, impersonal and objective but you could at least try to fake it for the benefit of others here. Maybe you could just pretend you understand. > >I don't know of anybody who has called you a (liar) or claimed that > >you are (mentally disturbed) yet.... > *CHEAP LAWYER TRICK # 376. SAY THE WORDS! It doesn't matter if the > judge strikes it from the record, the important thing is that the jury > heard it! I'm not a lawyer and I really don't have time for tricks. > Don't hide behind false civility John, if you want to call me a liar > just do it, but don't "use words" to sanitize it like you do with > everything else. Honesty, will go a lot further than cute verbal cat & > mouse games. I don't think you're a liar, I don't have any reason to think you're a liar. (I think you believe your experiences 110%) That was, as stated, an example of self-restraint that apparently you completely misunderstood. Had you exercised some self-restraint you might have been able to politely ask me if I thought you were a liar. I would then have politely told you that I do not think you were a liar. Instead, we have (yet again) your assumption-based out-of-control emotional tantrums that only serve to embarass you. > >Self-restraint, not censorship or self-censorship, and a continuing > >effort to remain impartial, impersonal and objective is the ONLY way > >self-claimed experiencers and experiencer can get along _and_ move > >forward. > Now, if I can get (you) to beleive it, we may actually get somewhere! I not only believe it but I've been demonstrating it right here. What have you been demonstrating? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Historical File - Kecksburg 'UFO Crash' From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 16:49:13 cst Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:52:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Historical File - Kecksburg 'UFO Crash' I wrote to James Easton: >>The American spacecraft analogies you offer don't work -- all these craft >>deployed multiple parachutes in addition to relatively soft ocean-landing >>splashdowns. >>Not only is there no report of parachute deployment in the Kecksburg >>incident, nobody described the wreckage as fragmented, charred debris, >>that it most certainly would have been if it had been any type of man-made >>spacejunk. To which James replied: >I have to weigh up the fact that the failed COSMOS 96 satellite seems to >fit the profile - even down to apparent first hand testimonies of the >object's size, very distinctive shape and inscribed bumper - against >speculation that it may not have survived such an impact. >I don't really see any evidence that it couldn't possibly have been the >COSMOS 96 satellite. If it wasn't, I haven't seen any credible evidence >being offered for an alternative source, or an explanation of why that >alternative source was apparently so similar to the COSMOS 96 >satellite. Hi James, In the absence of parachutes, breaking rockets or other aerodynamic lift/control surfaces we're either dealing with a "hollow" (Soviet?) satellite shell which should have burned-up on reentry and/or disintegrated on impact, or else a "solid" body that should have created an impact crater. Based on all the eyewitness reports, the Kecksburg object doesn't seem to conform to either of these scenarios. How do you resolve the COSMOS 96 explanation with these factors? Regards, Vince PS: Nice work on the Santilli dissection. Try posing this question to the Santilli apologists: Is there *any* statement that Santilli has made that has been proved to be truthful (other than his confession that he's "only in it for the money")?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Sighting Ventura County, Southern CA From: Mary Helen Corrado <mcorrado@jetlink.net> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 08:52:49 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:22:01 -0500 Subject: Sighting Ventura County, Southern CA >Great stuff Helen,,,I have another story of like magnitude on the order of >my sighting with Dr. Leir...I will forward as it comes to us...Best to you >dear lady..Derrel Hi Derrel - What a nice surprise to see a note from you here. Have you checked the website? Have extra info on there including the first of the photos. http://www.jetlink.net/~mcorrado Will look forward to hearing your report and to seeing you again!! I hear Roger is flying out in your neck of the woods this weekend. Have lots of fun!! If I don't get to talk to you, hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!! And may the New Year bring new wonders to us all!!!! Mary Helen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 14:07:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:42:04 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > Name calling? How dare I point out arguments devoid of logic, devoid of > linkage that completely ignores the existing evidence that the proclamation > presented is pure poppycock? How dare I to expect substantive arguments to > support a position? How dare I to repeatedly point out that when asked for > the evidence that supports the proclamation, none ever is presented? How > dare I point out arguments that are nothing more than logical fallacies > such as appeal to authority, appeal to the gallery, strawman arguments and > the employment of circular logic? How dare I point out the occasions of > intellectual dishonesty displayed on this list when they occurred? How > dare I not to succumb to the practice of intellectual bullyism? How dare > I to point out irrelevant arguments that are nothing more than ruses to > avoid the real issues, substantive evidence/lack of substantive evidence? > Well, you may be right in that it is probably childish of me to expect > the above in the field of ufology. > > > Yes, there > > is plenty of information on the Groom Lake area, even pictures. There is > > also undoubtedly lots of classified information on the base at Groom > > Lake. Even if those files SHOULD be public domain, I doubt they are > > going to happily hand them over thus fueling further rumors/theories. > > So what? One could argue the above ad nauseum and in the end no progress, > no knowledge gained. So what is the point in complaining about what amounts > to nothing more than an excuse for lack of evidence to support a belief > system? One either changes their belief system, or they admit to themselves > that their belief system is what is important and not whether there is any > evidence out there to support it. But to present what amounts only to be > a belief system in the context that it is based on evidence is nothing but > intellectual dishonesty. To present a belief system in the context that it > is based on what evidence may be out there should it ever become available > is a fallacious argument. To present a belief system in the context that > it is based on personal faith is a religion. The point being that if one > does not wish to be intellectually dishonest, or illogical, or accept their > personal beliefs as a religion, one sticks to the available evidence to > base claims on and one continues to search for evidence that can add > linkage to the existing evidence that has stood up to critical analysis > and modify their claims based on what that new evidence that has stood up > to critical analysis has revealed and one stays away from making claims and > supporting claims that fall into the categories of intellectual dishonesty, > illogical or religious. > > > Ask yourself this: If MJ-12 exists or existed, do you think they'd just > > let some REAL evidence lay around in NARA? > > Ask yourself this: If MJ-12 existed, where do you think you could find > supporting documentation? > > > If the Lazar story was > > real,(I don't think it is) and you wanted your secret kept, wouldn't you > > discredit him? Sometimes to make headway it's almost best to think > > backwards, become what you're chasing after. > > Ask yourself this: Why discredit an individual when that individual has > no evidence to support their story? What makes a story valid is supporting > evidence that is linked from data point to data point and can be > independently verified. Don't you find it interesting that folks that have > claimed the government discredited them or that claim they are the targets > of govenment harassment happen to also be the folks that never had anything > but a story to present, stories without genesis/provenance, without linkage, > without independent supportable evidence? > > Ask yourself this: Why is it that folks that have produced more than just > a story, evidence with genesis/provenance, with data points that had > linkage to them, and stories that were independently verifiable > have never been the targets of government discrediting? Example: Barry > Greenwood, co-author of "Clear Intent" and one of the principles in the > CAUS/NSA lawsuit? I don't know of anyone that has produced more damming > evidence that the government hasn't been forthright about UFO phenomena than > Barry. Yet, no MIBs have ever bothered him. (GRIN) > > Ed Stewart > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - Ed, Re: MJ-12 To answer your quesion, IF a group like MJ-12 existed, there would be no supporting documentation anywhere you or anyone outside of the loop could get at it. Re: Bob Lazar Doesn't it seem like Lazar's records could be destroyed by the government, IF his story was true? Re: Your comments about belief systems I don't hold any one particular "belief system". You too must realize, that being a total skeptic is a belief system as well. I don't know what your religon is, but total denial is a belief in itself. Now, I don't mean to call you a total skeptic, because I don't know what your beliefs are. I have done much work into MJ-12, including the Truman signature. The signature isn't identical, it's close though. One must wonder where Phil Klass "found" this signature. How in the thousands of Truman signatures did he find an "exact" match? Did he sit there for days with a ruler and go through them? I know they aren't identical because I scanned them both, and made some acetate(spellling?) overlays. Right now I am led to belive that the SOM is fake. If it is, so what? Couldn't it be a copycat hoax? I think it's possible that the Ike papers are genuine. When I began UFO research, I thought MJ-12 was surely a hoax, now I'm not too sure. Regards, Scott K. Hale P.S. I love these discussions, they're so enjoyable!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:14:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:15:03 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 In a message dated 96-12-13 02:51:51 EST, Stan Friedman wrote: << Errol: I am beginning to wonder if Ed Stewart and Kevin Randle haven't been <hired by some disinformation outfit to waste my time on the net with some very <strange arguments. Let me look at several: Congratulations Ed, you've joined me as an agent of disinformation. I hope your check is as large as mine. Stan, you have, of course, evidence to back up this new and totally irrelevant allegation... < 1. Kevin's argument that since Ike would have known about Roswell, as Chief of < Staff in 1947, there would have been no need for a preliminary briefing in 1952 <as the president elect, is an old and faulted one. It might have held if Ike <had <remained as Chief of Staff through 1952. But he had already in June, 1947, <announced he was stepping down to be tbe President of Colmbia University. He <was <there for a couple of years and was writing his memoirs as well. Then he <spent a <couple of years in Europe trying to tie the devastated former enemy nations of <Europe into a coalition to resist the Soviets, only coming back to the US <around <June of 1952 for the Republican convention.As noted in my 108 p. "Final Report <on Operation Majestic 12" l990, FUFOR, (available from UFORI, $14. postpaid, <POB <958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958), he states in "Mandate for Change" p.85, that he <was briefed that summer of l952 on National Security matters by W.B.Smith, DCI. <Smith in a 2 page Jan.9, l953, letter to Truman notes that he had arranged 4 <briefings for Ike during the campaign and 4 after the Nov. 4 election. The <entire letter is on pages E-9 and E10 of "Final Report..."Clearly he needed and <received briefings on National Security matters after his long time out of the <loop. The CIA has been unable to locate anything related to those briefings. There is nothing in the MJ-12 Briefing that Eisenhower didn't already know. The information is all relatively mundane and certainly reveals nothing new. Therefore there was no need to create this document. <2. I referred to the need for access to classified files re the history of Area <51 and Kevin commented "we do have access to the public records which show no <evidence of any secret facility in 1954" . To the best of my knowledge public <records are by definition, not classified. How could they show evidence of <classified balck matters. The area is, according to one writer the size of <Switzerland. A facility for collection, storage, and evaluation of bodies and <wreckage need not be the size of Switzerland. Ed Stewart sets a new standard <for <classification when he stated as repeated by Scott Hale "Before information <becomes classified, it is in the public domain and out there". Using Ed's <phrase <(would I ever say any such thing?) this is "unadulterated poppycock". Many <Black <Programs are by definition born classified. There were no public domain <releases <on the Manhattan Project, the city of Los Alamos, the Stealth Fighter, the U-2 <etc ad nauseum before they became classified, were there Ed?. If I understand what you are saying here, it is that you have no evidence that Area 51 or a secret facility existed in the Groom Lake area. The size of the area is irrelevant. We have information about it because it was in public hands. There was no secret installation there. <3. I suppose I should appreciate Kevin making me the Rupert Murdoch of the UFO <publishing world by twice using the phrase "self published" with regard to my <29 papers on MJ-12 and Roswell not listed in his long list of references in <"The <Truth about The UFO Crash at Roswell". Sorry Kevin; all 29 were published by <someone other than me such as IUR, MUFON J., FATE, UFO Universe, <Proceedings <of the various MUFON Symposia,etc. I have indeed distributed copies of many of <these through UFORI as noted above. Here are 3 self published items "S.E.T.I., <Sagan and Science " 27pg., l993;"Roswell Incident, USAF, and the NY Times" <9/26,l994; and, of most direct concern to our discussion, but not included in <the 29, "Operation Majestic 12? YES!" 37pages 8/94. Each is only $4.postpaid <from UFORI with a special price for all three of only $10.00 postpaid. So let's see, some of them are self published and once again we get a commercial on how to buy them... And, once again, they were not a factor in The Truth About the UFO Crast at Roswell. That didn't answer the question about interviews used in Crash at Corona that I conducted and Stan didn't bother to acknowledge. Nor did it address that fact that he altered the interview with Bill Brazel to corroborate the bogu claims of Gerald Anderson. Stan, why did you alter the interview? <5. For Kevin, I am well aware of Dr.Pankratz's comments . Obviously if the Ike <or Truman libraries had MJ-12 documents of their own, we wouldn't be having <this <discussion. That doesn't mean they don't exist. The presidential Archives do <NOT <get everything from that administration. The regulations about security <markings <are one thing, the reality is quite another again as I have noted. Dr. <Pankratz <was also early on in error in some of his coments about the CT memo.. as I <reported in Final Report.... So, what you are saying here is that you have NO documents to support your allegation. You are also saying that you knew about the negative information but decided not to include it in your work. The real point is that NO evidence exists to support your position. <Enough of my time. STF >> Does this mean that you are going to answer the questions? You still haven't answered the original questions. Why is that? KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 UFO UpDate: Wormwood? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:42:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:40:23 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate: Wormwood? >From: HoustonSky@aol.com >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:49:00 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) >Subject: Wormwood? >Posted on the Art Bell website... http://www.artbell.com >From: Name@Withheld >To: artbell@aol.com >Date: 96-12-11 00:33:29 EST >Dear Mr. Bell, >I have listened to your program off and on for around two years now, >whenever I get "down-time". I have some disturbing information and I felt >that your program would be the perfect vehicle with which to distribute >what I have. The "priest" has that right! >I have been under the employ of the Vatican for over five years. I >have done what could best be described as counter-intelligence work, for >>the church. NEWSFLASH! Renegade priest runs from Popes 'hit men' Former secret agent Father Ignatious De Plata, who posseses a 'doubled cross' Vatican security clearance (License to convert!) is running from the dredded Vatican death squads. This elite band of highly trained sharpshooting priests acting under direct orders from the Pontiff himself are scouring the globe for Fr."Iggy", as he was fondly known to his devoted congregation of senior citizens over in Killarny. "Our orders are to hunt him down and kill him, oh, and the Pope said that I was to be sure to administer 'Last Rites' (before) disposing of the body," said one of the Pontiff's trained killers. When questioned as to why, the swarthy priest responded that, "He's going to spill his guts about something important that the Pope wants kept quiet, on the Art Bell show." Well, that seems justification enough for this reporter! We wish the Pope and his death dealing 'Emmisaries of the Lord, "Good luck boys, and happy hunting! Nail that S>O>B> before he starts the machinery of Art Bells rumor mill humming again!" Good night and good news, Walter Crankcase reporting. HEE-HAW John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | houstonsky | name
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 More news from Moriches Bay, Long Island From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:50:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:42:52 -0500 Subject: More news from Moriches Bay, Long Island Here's the latest hot, smoking poop from Moriches Bay, Long Island. On their 10 a.m. broadcast this morning, Friday, December 13, 1996, USA Radio news confirmed that a Saudi jetliner had encountered a "greenish white object with a long tail" over Moriches Bay, Long Island. The sighting was confirmed on radar by the FAA Center in New York. James Kallstrom, the FBI special agent in charge of the TWA 800 investigation, was interviewed on the radio. Kallstrom reportedly said that was it "was still too early" to say exactly what the object was, but "it might turn out to be a Geminid meteor." The object was sighted at 6 a.m. on Thursday, December 12th, nearly 72 hours BEFORE the start of the Geminid meteor shower.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 13:51:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:41:15 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 UFO UpDates - Toronto posted: > From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:06:18 -0800 (PST) > > Date: Sun, 11 Dec 1994 17:49:29 -0500 > > From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > > References: <2.2.32.19961210162900.0070db34@globalserve.net> > > Ed, > > Before you continue bashing Mr. Friedman, you should know that the SOM > > manual has been around since 1994(If memory serves). Lets see.. I get a > > paper today.. I publish it 2 years later, boy I'm rushing out and > > publishing it before someone else does aren't I? > > Scott K. Hale > I know when Berliner got the SOM and I know when Friedman found out about > it and how he got a copy. > What makes you think that Stan Friedman got access to the SOM at the > same time that it was mailed out to Berliner? The fact is he didn't. The > fact is that Friedman only found out about it much later. If I told you > why you would only say I am bashing Friedman. You want to know why? Call > Berliner. > Ed Stewart No, I wouldn't automatically assume you were bashing Friedman, but I do know that I was listening to Art Bell back in July or August and it hadn't been published then. If you want to get something exciting out in a hurry, send it to some media people, or call a press confrence. Your implications that he's in it for the money aren't valid, because you can't make a very good living writing UFO books, IMHO. Regards, Scott K. Hale Search for other documents from or mentioning: shale | egs |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 UFO Magazine: UK UFO Magazine Website From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:48:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 11:58:10 -0500 Subject: UFO Magazine: UK UFO Magazine Website Dear colleagues, I'm pleased to inform you (just in case you didn't already know) that the new WWW site for UFO Magazine is up and running and can be accessed by dialling up: http://www.ufomag.co.uk I trust the two feature articles on the Brazilian Varginha incident and Nick Pope are to your liking. The site will develop over time (which is a precious commodity for us) and any constructive suggestions will be most welcome. This from a gentleman who still finds difficulty in changing the wires around on a house plug. Best regards and have a safe and enjoyable weekend, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:03:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 11:58:57 -0500 Subject: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' Going round the big red barn again, let's see if I can clarify two issues. Or maybe three. A while ago I noticed that two abductees, John Velez and Whitley Strieber, thought the alien picture Strieber posted here was more like the aliens they feel they've seen than any other picture known. That made me suggest a test. Show a group of abductees this picture and several others, of the standard alien. Ask them which picture is closest to the aliens they feel they've seen. If most of them pick the same one... So now for the objections. Dennis Stacy wrote: > Now guarantee that when they say they haven't seen it, they > haven't, indeed, seen it. Guarantee next that they haven't seen any similar > images now almost ubiquitous in the modern media, beginning with, say, the > cover of "Communion" itself. Well, of course they've seen these alien images, just as we all have. I don't think that's relevant, though. We'd be asking people who all agree on the general form of these aliens to pick a specific variant of it. If they agree on the variant -- on very fine details, in other words -- then maybe they've actually seen the same thing. Hard to guarantee that they haven't seen it. That's a good point. I think we could be reasonably sure, because the new image hasn't gotten around much, and in any case, when I've seen abductees in group discussions, they're not very ufologically savvy. So if this new image only circulates in limited ufological circles (hmmm...what a name for a new airplane maneuver...don't think I'd want to be on a plane that was doing one of those....), the odds are that most abductees wouldn't see it. Though I know this doesn't validate the test scientifically! On to John Powell: > Show _faked_ alien pictures to a > > > group of self-claimed abductees to see which _fake_ picture they > > > like? I had trouble with two emotion-laden words in that question, "fake" and "self-claimed." Re fake, I suggested a parallel to a police identikit. But John says there's a difference: > The difference is that you'd be showing known fake pictures...<grin> The word "fake," I still think, is throwing a cloud of emotion over this simple question. What we're talking about here are pictures that aren't drawn from life. A police artist works with witnesses to create an impression of a suspect. Likewise with pictures of aliens. All the alien images we've seen -- the cover of Communion and the rest -- are artists' impressions, based on descriptions from people who believe they've seen the aliens. In that respect, an identikit picture and a drawing or computer-generated image of an alien are similar. They certainly serve a similar purpose -- to provide an image of something that wasn't there to pose for the artist. In any case, I don't see how you can call the covers of Communion or Intruders or any of countless other books "fake" pictures. Nobody ever claimed those aliens were real. On to "self-claimed." That struck me as a mocking expression, especially in context. To which John replied: > So far as alien abductions are concerned we have no evidence that such > events have occurred therefore those who claim they have occurred (to > them) are accurately 'self-claimed abductees.'...Why do you think refering to abductees and their stories as "self-claimed" somehow invalidates them? "Self-claimed" or words to that effect are routinely used in journalism to underline what are perceived as shoddy pretentions or illegitimate titles. For example, the President of Mexico would never be called the "self-claimed President." But the "Supreme Commander" of a guerilla force seeking to depose the president might well be called the "self-proclaimed Supreme Commander." I don't think you'll find many usages of these terms -- or maybe even any -- that aren't mocking or critical. I asked if anyone would speak about a "self-claimed rape victim," and John replied: > or a rape victim I would use the term "self-claimed" during the > initial reporting of the alleged event only because at that time it is a > self-claimed (and alleged) event. (An exception of course would be such > an event that was independently witnesses in which case it would be an > "alleged" event and there would be no need to refer to it as > self-claimed.) But this, I think, is exactly what is <not> done. Take the Mike Tyson rape case. Imagine a newspaper story in which his accuser was referred to as "the self-claimed rape victim." There's hardly a reader alive who wouldn't catch the implication that the charges were false. So instead, newspapers use neutral words like "accuser," which simply state the facts. Another example. An Englishman named Declan McManus made quite a reputation in the pop world for records he made under the name Elvis Costello. In fact, to most of the world he simply <is> Elvis Costello. So now let's say I come along and I start writing about "the self-claimed Elvis Costello." There isn't a soul in the rock and roll world who wouldn't know I despised him. (I don't, by the way...) Cut now to Michael Jackson. A few years ago, he signed a deal with MTV. He'd do something for them (forgot what), and in return they'd refer to him, even in their news broadcasts, as the "king of pop." Incredibly, the phrase caught on, and Jackson was called that everywhere. That must have been his greatest publicity coup ever. If I'd written about him after that, I'd have been tempted to call him "the self-claimed king of pop," meaning it as a dig, and feeling justified in sniping at him that way, because the phrase was originally used deceptively. (If I kept it up long enough, I'd be cut off Sony Music's press list, and my editor would get a nasty letter demanding an apology. You think ufology is nasty?) Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 14 IUFO: The Late Senator Kennedy & UFOs! From: "Dan G." <geibdan@qtm.net> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:58:07 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:53:21 -0500 Subject: IUFO: The Late Senator Kennedy & UFOs! This may be old news to some, but I received a copy of a letter photo copied out of a book allegedly from Senator Robert Kennedy to a publisher of a UFO Magazine. In it the Senator explains his beliefs in the UFO phenomena and his hopes for learning more. This in NO WAY states that UFOs are real. However, I hope it might do something to quiet those who think that ALL UFO believers are either nuts or idiots. Copies of the letter can be found in Decembers UFO news in UFO Folklore at http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html <>=======<>========<>========<>=====<>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Alice Springs Sightings From: glenmack@thehub.com.au (glennys mackay) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 08:14:28 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:25:28 -0500 Subject: Alice Springs Sightings UFO'S SIGHTED OVER ALICE SPRINGS -CAPTURED ON VIDEO BY POLICE On the 26th november, Police in Alice Springs were able to capture on Video a number of lights flying information across the sky. These were sighted by hundreds of people and the phones were jammed with people phoning the station to report the activity in the sky. The Chief of Police describe the lights as orange in colour they were flying in formation, and every now and then one or two would leave the formation and fly off in different directions at great speed before returning to the group. On the following morning a local journalist contacted Pine Gap (Joint defence Facility) and asked about the activity the previous night if they were involved etc. he was told what the people saw the night before were "just weather balloons". That evening of the 27th November more calls came into the Police station advising of strange lights bobbing up and dawn and there were many. The Officer instructed his men to go out and investigate the sightings. Two cars were despatched on one of the outer roads and the first officer came across a plastic bag on the side of the road all ready prepared to send off into the sky. The second police car set off along a back road came across a car acting suspiciously, two men were in the car, he asked what they were doing and searched the car to find balloon making equipment in the car asked the two men to accompany him back to the station for questioning, also demanded to see there I.D. the two Americans reluctantly produced there I.D. cards which stated they worked for the Dept. of Joint Facilities at PINE GAP. ( Pine Gap is only about oNe and half hours drive from Alice Spring.) I am awaiting a copy of this video and it will be analysed and will be available for any other group that wish to analyse it also. There are still ongoing sightings in the Northern Territory and various parts of Australia coming in all the time. (our News papers are very controlled as they are not always reported.) Regards G.Mackay, QUFON QUEENLAND _____________________________________ G.M. Mackay QUFON : Queensland UFO Network P.O. Box 2183 Mansfield M/C BRISBANE, QLD 4122 AUSTRALIA PHONE/FAX: +61 7 3849 6450 E-mail glenmack@thehub.com.au _____________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:55:24 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:27:08 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: KRandle993@aol.com > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:14:03 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > In a message dated 96-12-13 02:51:51 EST, Stan Friedman wrote: > << Errol: I am beginning to wonder if Ed Stewart and Kevin Randle haven't > been > <hired by some disinformation outfit to waste my time on the net with some > very > <strange arguments. Let me look at several: > > Congratulations Ed, you've joined me as an agent of disinformation. I hope > your check is as large as mine. I don't have the slightest clue how large my check is. When first accused of the same allegation by Richard Boylan after posting arguments and evidence that his proclamations were fallacious, I realized that such tactics were more damning towards the accuser than the object of the accusation. Accusing someone of being an agent when confronted with arguments contrary to one's position is a sign of emotional desperation and actually provides substantive evidence as to the character and mindset of the accuser. It is tantamount to a personal confession that they have no evidence to substantiate whatever proclamations they were previously promoting. It is a common tactic of distraction away from the real issues, substantive evidence/lack of substantive evidence used by those that are unable to provide valid arguments to support their positions. The above is the second time that Stanton Friedman resorted to that maneuver. The first was back in August where he proclaimed that I must be being paid my MJ-12 or its successor to "birddog" him. That was after Stanton jumped into a thread that he was not participating in declaring as nonsense a position I had taken and demanding evidence for it following it up with numerous e-mail messages to my address which amounted to nothing more than intellectual bullyism and annoying. After I asked him several times to stop e-mailing me and to post his position publically to the list if he had something relevant to say, I finally told him that if I got another e-mail that I would post the message traffic to the list. He continued with his bullyism and annoyance in e-mail, so I posted the thread and proceeded to back up my position with the sourced evidence available to me and indicating where anyone could find the information. Somehow or other Stanton Friedman viewed that as me "bird dogging" him. Here we are four months later with lots of bark but still no vestige of relevant evidence from Stanton Friedman to back up his contentions regarding MJ-12. > Stan, you have, of course, evidence to back > up this new and totally irrelevant allegation... Maybe Friedman and Boylan can get together and devise a common strategy. Who knows, there may well be a co-operative book in the making? Maybe even with promotional tours. After all, birds of a feather have been known to find each other and nest together against all odds.(GRIN) Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Abduction Question From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 00:46:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:28:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction Question >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 96 13:54:14 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction Question > John Velez wrote: >>Jorgen, the connection that you're trying to make here, (military >>involvement in abductions) is to me, on the face of it a complete >>impossibility. They could NEVER get away with it. >>Aside from the fact that 'someone' would have 'talked' long before now, >>the logistics of such a broad scale operation would require large >>numbers of personel and materials to accomplish. >>Example: personel. Let's say that you manage to recruit a few psychotics >>that are willing to help you kidnap citizens (and) keep their loyal mouths >>shut about it. Then I assume that you propose that these humans are either >>carrying out the abductions in conjunction with the aliens, or... by >>themselves, using 'alien technology' ie; flying saucers. >>Then we multiply this number in order to reach the minimum required to >>conduct hundreds or thousands of these abductions. Do you see where I'm >>going with this Jorgen? It's just physically impossible. They would have >>to employ so many people that someone somewhere would have blown the >>whistle on it ages ago. Even if only to make a few bucks on the lecture >>circuit! <G> >>I would believe that [some folks], [here and there] have been snatched in >>the night by operatives of some intelligence group or other for monitoring >>purposes, or to see if they can add information to their alien technology >>database. (I believe something like that happened to my friend Debbie >>Jordan, from "Intruders") But I don't for a minute think that its possible >>to pull something like that off of a large scale. It would involve too >>many people, that, in itself would be its major weakness and prove to be >>the source of its downfall. It would just become too "messy" and >>cumbersome an operation. > Hi John, > The same logistical problem you describe (excluding the need for > "human" secrecy) would be just as applicable to the "alien abduction" > scenario, wouldn't it? You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater Vince. My whole point was thet I didn't think that any "human" agency could pull it off. I know the aliens can. > While any hypothetical alien supertechnology may be impressively > dependable, I can't conceive of even advanced alien technology totally > overcoming the ironclad principles of Murphy's Law. Fact is they haven't. They haven't been completely sucessful in their 'clandestine' efforts or we wouldn't be discussing them! (chime in sci-fi sound track, oooweeeeahhhoooo)<G> Take care vince, John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 New Sighting Ventura County/Simi Valley From: Mary Helen Corrado <mcorrado@jetlink.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 18:05:36 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:27:59 -0500 Subject: New Sighting Ventura County/Simi Valley We have received news from a local resident of another sighting in Ventura County. This occurred Friday afternoon. It seems we are becoming a bit of a hot spot these days!! Mary Helen Corrado MUFON Vta/SB http://www.jetlink.net/~mcorrado NEW SIGHTING REPORTED IN SIMI VALLEY DATE: 12/13/96 TIME: 1530 INITIAL EYEWITNESS REPORT FROM E-MAIL CONTACT WITH LOCAL RESIDENT Yesterday, I witnessed a sighting at approximately 3:30pm. The object was traveling at an amazing speed. It was heading somewhat in the direction of Malibu, CA. 2 people other than myself witnessed it. The object streaked across the sky, then rapidly slowed to a stop. After maintaining a stationary position for a few seconds, it then went straight up and began doing various zig-zag maneuvers for quite a while before shooting off in the Northeast direction. I am not able to estimate the elevation of the UFO, but it did not appear to be extrememly high up, nor was it extremely big. Sunlight glinted off the top and bottom of the craft, which appeared to be a slightly flattened egg shape. There was no sound coming from the object that I could hear. The object left no contrail, while all the other planes in the sky had been leaving contrails. Approximately 45 minutes later, I was outside showing some of my co-workers where we saw the UFO, and I noticed 2 fighter jets flying in tight wing formation heading in the same direction the UFO had gone. There was no way the fighters would have ever caught up with the UFO. This is the first daylight sighting that I have witnessed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Ambush Journalism I From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:02:58 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:29:46 -0500 Subject: Ambush Journalism I Here is a little something that came my way just before sweeps week. I have included my answers. As this is America, the names have been changed to protect the guilty. (Apparently around 1947 they also had trouble with the literal minded. Many stories ended with, "That's a joke, son!" As should this little introduction.) > > > > My name is ------------. I'm a reporter with W----TV. > > > > We're currently working on a news series about the Plum Island Animal > > Disease Center which is located about ten miles off of Old Saybrook, CT. > > Plum Island is the premier bio-security containment facility for foreign > > animal diseases. I have heard a little about this facility and that some wackos in the area claim that Lyme disease and maybe even AIDS came from there. They don't explain how Lyme disease was detected in Europe about the same time it was detected in the US. > > > Rumors have floated around for years that Plum Island is in fact just a > > government cover for a number of covert activities. I have visited the > > facility and can attest that there is indeed animal disease research going > > on. But there are several sub-terainian labs and corridors with four > > increasing levels of "containment." It's the perfect cover for biological > > weapons -- or storage of aliens ofr their artifacts. Lots of liquid > > nitrogen tanks..colling refrigerators for contagous diseases. > The US is a signatory to the treaty that prevents the use of biological weapons. Even so, would it not make sense to have defense against biological agents?...so that could justify research. > > > > While our story has the highest journalistic intentions, we certainly can > > not ignore the public sentiment in the area around the facility. > Correct me if I wrong, but isn't critical thinking part of "highest journalitic intentions." If you were doing research on biological weapons or ETs, you would do it a facility that a country like the USSR could isolate long enough to raid with a submarine borne spenatz force and get your secrets before you could react. Seem rather doubtful doesn't it? Obviously, it would make sense to militia types but then again almost anything makes sense to them. > > >Few > > people know it even exists. And those who do consider the evidence for > > covert activity: > > > > - Former Army base > > - Closed to the public for nearly a century now > > - Super-secure lab created by the US Congress in 1954 -- a sensitive time > > for defense and UFO studies > Can you enlight me as to what sensitive UFO studies were going on in 1954? The other evidence you offered sound pretty tenuous. > > > - High security and warnings of contagious diseases help keep the curious > > from investigating. > Do you have some link to DOD or other security agencies? > > > > What do you know about the island, > Not much more than I've written here. > > > and what do you hink about the > > possibilities? > I wouldn't want to feed the conspiracy freaks' imaginations. > > > Our story airs next week, so the sooner you can reply, the > > better. > From what imput you have given me, my opinion is that you should kill the story until you can dig up additional facts on the facility. > > > I received your e-mail address from the --------------. I know your source they have helped me in the past. They are among the more serious minded in the field. Since I don't necessarily subscribe to current government ufo coverup theories and I am not a "believer" as many people are in tabloid ufo theories, most ufo people have no use for me. However, I am interested in UFOs and have a grant to do research on the subject. I have spent some time in over 150 universities, archives and libraries in 45 states and Canadian provinces. I copied about 10,000 pages of documents from the National Archives, the Library of Congress, and the USAF Historical Research Center at Maxwell AFB, Alabama on the subject. > > > Thank you for your time. > Sorry, I could not be of much help. > Sincerely, > Jan L. Aldrich, Project 1947 (860)-546-9135
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Ambush Journalism I From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 10:17:38 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:30:38 -0500 Subject: Ambush Journalism I Now changes the tune. Please note that since I wouldn't play his little game I get a more reasonable approach. Had I gone and done an interview no doubt I would have been chopped to pieces and made to appear a grand kook. Forwarned is forearmed. > > > > > Thanks for your reply. > > > > I believe my note sent the wrong message. The first two parts of our > > series involve the study of animal diseases. The third part should help to > > dispell rumors generated by the shroud of secrecy which once drapped the > > island. > I will watch it. > > It's fitting that you refer to the term "critical thinking." I am an alumnus of Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio -- one of the few classic liberal arts institutions left in America. > A Liberal Arts education is inoculation against these illogical beliefs. > > Not knowing much about your writings, I simply considered the source of your e-mail address ------------ folks. I found them during an internet search. I incorrectly assumed you were part of that culture, and therefore I attempted to show sympathy for any theories you might have suported. > I am somewhat a part of their culture as I study what interests them. I just don't necessarily share all their beliefs. > > > I have visited plum island and agree the umors are quite unreal. But I do > > have documentation that the Fort Terry Army base -- which existed on the > > island until 1952 -- transformed one of its buildings into a biological > > warfare production center. The now-declassified documents show the Army > > was researching the possibility of releasing Foot and Mouth Disease Virus > > on enemy fields to decimate the enemy's agriculture, food supply, and > > economy. > I knew we were researching that possibility. I had some training in NBC defense operations in the Service. Most of the offensive research ceased under Nixon. > > > > I was just testing the waters to make sure there wasn't a large group of > > people out there who suspect Plum Island is more than just a USDA research > > center. > > > > Our story airs Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday at 11:00 P.M. Our focus is > > more on the interesting aspects of the government facility than on any wild > > conspiracy theories. I am not an investigative reporter, but a > > storyteller. Here is one then. The Japanese balloon bomb attack against the US in WW II was more than just an attempt to start fires in the Western forests. Documents not declassified in the original downgrading indicate that biological or chemical attack was suspected. (An interrogation of a Japanese general, intercepted coded messages to the Germans, and dead animals close to grounded balloons.) The possibility was scracy to the military, but after the war the object was to rehabilitate Japan as fast as possible--no need to bring up this little unpleasantness. Susposedly, acording to one USAF UFO project officer, the balloon recovery teams which had been activitied during the "attack" were left in place until 1953. Maybe that's why the Air Force was interested in "flying saucers." Possibly ufos were seen as renewed attack by a foreign power. Conspriacies are wonderful; they are everywhere! > > > Thank you again for your time. Sure, no problem. > > > ------------- > > ---------- > >Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 12:25:44 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:33:10 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Greg Sandow wrote: >The debate John Powell and I are having should really be conducted in >public, with a very sharp moderator. The moderator could force out some >of the assumptions both he and I make, and focus the discussion. How do you respond to ths one, Erol? :) ~Pat~ ___________________________________________ With a neutral 'silence' <g> I'm trying to avoid getting caught up in any more than facilitating the List. Reading & re-posting burns up an several hours a day. Things get behind when I'm away on-location or in-studio - up to 18 hour work days, plus trying to keep the List flowing. Posters here are intelligent, educated and well-informed. Eventually, threads will either resolve or exhaust. Doubtlessly we'll return to some of them periodically. Some like Philip Mantle will take their 'truth' and 'bugger-off' - so be it. As in the past, I'll step in to stop things deteriorating. Keep in mind why this List exists: UpDates is one of the few venues where researchers, invesigators, authors, writers, experiencers and seriously interested 'civilians' can come together to either discuss all aspects of the UFO phenomena or lurk, read and learn news.groups are basically useless to those who, like me, are anxious to get to the root of the 'UFO Mystery' - ignorance, noise and flames new subscribers here assume that 'UFO UpDates' carries only UFO news updates - it wasn't conceived that way - the intention is to update _all_ aspects, ancient, living memory, recent history and current UFO related information. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 10:03:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:32:18 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' John Powell decanted; >I not only believe it but I've been demonstrating it right here. > >What have you been demonstrating? Ignorance. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 12:41:56 cst Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:11:26 -0500 Subject: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' John Powell wrote: >> or a rape victim I would use the term "self-claimed" during the >> initial reporting of the alleged event only because at that time it >>is a self-claimed (and alleged) event. (An exception of course >>would be such an event that was independently witnesses in which >>case it would be an "alleged" event and there would be no need to >>refer to it as self-claimed.) To which Greg Sandow replied: >But this, I think, is exactly what is <not> done. Take the Mike Tyson >rape case. Imagine a newspaper story in which his accuser was >referred to as "the self-claimed rape victim." There's hardly a >reader alive who wouldn't catch the implication that the charges were >false. So instead, newspapers use neutral words like "accuser," which >simply state the facts. Hi Greg, I think you're automatically ascribing a pejorative meaning to the terms "self claimed" or "self proclaimed" that really isn't justified. An accusation of rape without any substantiating evidence is only an accusation -- not a verdict. To describe the claimant as a "rape victim" in the absence of *any* supporting evidence indicates a prima facie acceptance of the claim and reveals an endorsement of the claimant's tale. Jurisprudence, as well as science, just doesn't work that way. Accepting the fact that inexplicably weird things really do happen to people, we also know that people make stuff up for a variety of reasons. Use of the term "self-proclaimed" is just a qualifier to indicate that the claims have not been verified and/or the absence of any supporting evidence. Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 11:51:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:12:13 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > > > What I _really_ want is to know these things in a completely > > _impersonal_ sense. I'd like there to be a collection of data > > completely separated from any human being. Put that collection of > > data in a box, put the box in the middle of a giant empty parking > > lot and then any person who approaches that data can read it (do the > > experiments, whatever) and walk away with _precisely_ the same > > understanding (knowledge) as any other person. > I understand believe me. However and unfortunately, the above > DOES necessarily involve humans. It involves people who have > undergone a set of serious traumatic shocks to their psyche. > These folks seem to have an extremely difficult time > disassociating themselves from the tremendous emotional > attachment to their experience. Anything as seriously traumatic as this is going to present a whole set of separate problems, which is why I think the psychological aspect and any related therapy should be separate from any research/investigation. There's no reason why abductees can't be involved in the research/investigation but there are some otherwise obvious groundrules associated with that. It isn't a crime that one or another person has difficulty separating themselves from the phenomenon, I'd be surprised if that wasn't pretty much always the case. > That the reported circumstances of these phenomena is fantastic > and all but unbelievable is true, but due to the overwhelming > numbers it is clear that something exceedingly strange is and > has been occurring. I'm not so sure how overwhelming the number really are. True, its a lot of abductees but they are mostly coming from a very small number of abductionists. At any rate, the anecdotal data to date, overwhelming or not, is clearly enough to indicates that _something_, rather than nothing, is going on. > > That's the only way we'll know that we got it right. > Perhaps, but in any event it IS TIME NOW that an honest and > totally objective study be made of what is occurring. Our > collective future just may depend upon it. The time is certainly now rather than later. > > And that is the filter through which I view every single bit of > > ufological and paranormal data. The odd thing is that my approach > > causes some skeptics to consider me a believer and it causes some > > believers to consider me a skeptic. Go figure...<grin> > Honesty is an all too rare commodity during these times. ;-) Hahaha!! > > > I have included a JPEG of the piece with this message. > > Great picture! > It IS for sale! <grin> I'll mention that in the listing. > Just think of what a conversation piece it would make hanging in > your entryway! <wide evil grin> Just think what a conversation piece _I'd_ make hanging in my foyer if my wife found out I bought something like that!!!! <GRIN> -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:20:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:13:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance > > >That's an incredibly silly premise. > >Dating the film merely dates the film, nothing more. In no way does > >it prove ownership. Santilli has already claimed ownersip and has > >the copyright, and he's _not_ a US citizen. If the US gov't wanted > >the film they'd have two options: > Silly or not, it seems to have worked. If you saw my message to > James Easton, I mention the videos of the footage been or being sold > by other vendors on that premise even without the US Govt. claiming > it. Are you perhaps confusing sales and advertising with the real world??? > You are correct, dating the film does nothing else. It does not > "authenticate" the footage. If the footage was shot in 1987 we still > don't know who was involved in making it. Not all people are > interested in finding out who did it. I just happen to be one that is. We have three parts to this: 1) The film stock (and if there is any), 2) The content of the film, 3) Those who made the film. Dating the film stock does authenticate the film stock. If the footage was shot in 1987 I would still like to know who did it but only _after_ a very long and very enjoyable period during which we peel the flesh off the bones of those who have been promoting this as anything but a hoax...<grin> > That person that is claiming to be the cameraman is involved now. > Whether he is actually the cameraman that shot the footage or not, he > is still involved. I think the fact that there is an actual person > claiming this, besides Santilli is significant. I don't think > Santilli could have done this whole thing by himself, and now there is > more proof that he didn't. What you have isn't proof. It doesn't matter if Santilli and a cast of hundreds or even thousands it. Until we know if there is film stock, and until we know the date of that film stock, we don't know anything. > > Sorry, but this is just a convenient dodge to allow Santilli to > > continue to market his hoax. > And he should continue. Particularly if he is able to market it > even though people think its a fake! No one is being forced to look > at the footage or to purchase it so what harm is being done? You have to answer that question for yourself. > >If your alleged cameraman turns out to be a cameraman from the 40s > >that's wonderful but it tells us nothing about the Santilli footage. > >There would also still be _no_ connection between the cameraman and > >the Santilli footage. We would _still_ need to date the film to know > >it is from that era. > Dating alone will prove nothing other than that deformed human > bodies or special effects existed in whatever year it turns out to be. > There is nothing in the footage to show that the military or any > government agency was involved. Did you forget about the scene showing a guy in military uniform on the other side of the 'window?' > The person claiming to be cameraman can tell us who was involved and > what is on the table. Just noise, hot air, unless it can be verified. > So yes, I think more information can be gained from the > "cameraman" than from dating the film. At least the information that I > am interested in. I know that all people aren't interested in > knowing the who and the what of it, and I wouldn't expect them to. I don't understand why you would be more interested in unverified chit-chat from an unsubstantiated source about an unverified film, but to each his or her own... > > Now, finally, please state why you think _any other_ choice makes > > more sense, and please do so by refuting the simple logic stated > > above. > I would chose the one that would give me the the most answers. > Dating the film would only answer one question. Many people have > stated that would be enough for them. But I want to know more. Okay...<grin> -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:31:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:14:49 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > From: HoustonSky@aol.com > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > > John V., pardon me for jumping in here, but I would like to make an > observation. > I can't be sure that I know what John Powell means, but this is way I > am interpretting what he is saying. Yes, we know abductees are human > with difficult challenges and that part of the human needs to be taken > care of. But if we are ever going to learn *WHAT* is really happening > -- someone needs to be studying the abuctee in an objective manner, > scientifically ALSO. Bingo. > There is a big difference between investigation and treatment. It is > very difficult for one person to do both things, and it is even > difficult for investigation and treatment to go together. There are > many conflicts. Too many conflicts. > I assume John Powell is looking at this from an "investigator's" point > of view. I am. I'm not a mental health professional, and I'm not willing to pretend that I am. > I don't think that ANYONE is advocating treating abductees as objects > while ignoring the human side. I could be wrong but I don't think I > am. I never advocated that and I've never heard that notion advanced anywhere. > An investigator wants facts. And to get facts, they have to be > objective and not let emotions obscure what they are looking for. That's the bottom line. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 13:02:48 cst Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:16:22 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Rich Boylan wrote: Noted Roswell researcher Stanton Friedman writes: >> Errol: I am beginning to wonder if Ed Stewart and Kevin Randle haven't been >>hired by some disinformation outfit to waste my time on the net with some >>very strange arguments. Let me look at several: >Stanton, >You have a very keen mind. I'm certain of very little in the wacky, wonderful, topsy-turvey world of ufology, but one thing I'm quite sure of: When one is confronted with (even bitterly) opposing opinions, accusing those who hold said opinions of being "disinformation agents" or threatening lawsuits is absolutely idiotic. Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Project Starlight? From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 14:46:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:17:12 -0500 Subject: Project Starlight? Could someone please tell me more about Steven Greer's Project Starlight? When did it begin and how does it relate to CSETI? Is Project Starlight part of somthing that Bob and Celia Dean are promoting with a similar sounding name? Thanks Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:39:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:15:36 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > That goes against all we know regarding crash recovery operational > procedures. When an airplane crashes, the recovered material is taken > to one site only, laid out systematically so that there is an > opportunity to reconstruct the crashed vehicle and hopefully help to > determine what caused the crash. You don't take the crashed remnants > to separate geographically dispersed areas. Unless you already know what the object is and why it crashed. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Wormwood? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 14:13:54 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:18:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? >Well, that seems justification enough for this reporter! We wish the Pope >and his death dealing 'Emmisaries of the Lord, "Good luck boys, and happy >hunting! Nail that S>O>B> before he starts the machinery of Art Bells rumor >mill humming again!" >John Velez Hummmm.... Shades of the Spanish Inquisition? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =80 wormwood n 1 : aromatic woody herb related to the daisies 2 : something bitter or grievous =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Re 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Interesting to note the HCN associated with Hale Bopp. (Cough cough) Something that has been on the backburner of my mind, something I noticed in news reports that has not been discussed here is another item of interest, to me at least. So, I'll conjecture... If I were of a super race of 'beings' and I was intent on exploring planets in a solar system, I would want to know certain things before I exposed myself to possible intelligent life forms. I would need some sort of high energy scanner, broadband, that would be able to elicit useable data from the planets I wish to know more about before I venture too close. As I know how easy it is to map out the structure of atoms, it would seem that a like device would suffice to map out organic molecules with the main difference being that such a device would need to be sent ahead in the form of a probe. A probe like that would of course needs be disguised so that any intelligent and outward looking life forms would not notice too closely. The probe would have to appear to be a natural object. The only danger would be that if there were sufficiently intelligent life forms around and they were advanced enough technologically, they may be able to detect the scanning signals. So, just in case of that I would think it prudent to select not so wide a bandwidth and perhaps push it up beyond the ultraviolet in hopes that no=20 detection would be likely. Of particular interest to me would be the spectra and temperatures of any planet that should be much, much hotter owing to it's close proximity to the central sun in a given solar system. My probe would need to make a very close, but not too close flyby of such a planet. I would suspect that large amounts of water and cool temperatures would indeed be an indicator of general life forms. Back to reality... Has anyone heard of anything that might fit the conjectured probe described above lately? I have! ~Pat~ =20 =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Hale-Bopp - Vodniza Replies From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 14:25:50 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:18:50 -0500 Subject: Hale-Bopp - Vodniza Replies Subject: Re: About 11/14 photo Sent: 12/14/96 5:57 PM Received: 12/14/96 2:09 PM From: ALBERTO QUIJANO VODNIZA, aquijano@coqui.net To: Pat Parrinello, pparri@republic.net Pat Parrinello wrote: > > Dear Sirs, > > I have found what appears to be a discrepancy in photos > taken by a gentleman in Houston Texas, and the photo > taken by yourselves on the evening of November 14, 1996 > of the comet Hale Bopp. > > The included AVS1114.jpg is a contrasted overlay of the > Houston & your photos. Note the datum stars, these have > been precisely aligned. It would seem that the large bright > star to the right of the comet would also be aligned precisely > center to center as has been the case with other comparisons > I have done. I have found in all cases, except yours, when the > technique I use is applied using maps provided by the astronomy > community, that these maps align perfectly. For instance, the > map provided by Mr. Russel Sipe of www.halebopp.com is in strict > agreement with the Photo taken by Mr. Shramek of Houston but that > map does not fit your photo. > > Could you please clarify this situation? If you would, I would > like > to have a few of your 16 bit greyscale raw images so that I may > ferret any possibility of graphic distortion that may have been > induced by your Corel graphics software. I am sure that Corel > would > wish to be apprised of any such bugs especially on behalf of the > scientific community. > > I have also included 3overlay.gif which shows yours and the > Shramek photos and Mr. Sipe's Map all overlaid and aligned > using the two datum stars. > > Thank you in advance, > > Orville L. Parrinello > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] [Image] Dear ORVILLE PARRINELLO: Excuse me but I was very busy in my University. I am going to give you the answer very soon. Thank you for your interest in our photos. ALBERTO QUIJANO VODNIZA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:13:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:21:14 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 In a message dated 96-12-14 13:48:54 EST, Scott Hale writes: << Ed, < Re: MJ-12 < To answer your quesion, IF a group like MJ-12 existed, there would <be no supporting documentation anywhere you or anyone outside of the <loop could get at it. <Re: Bob Lazar <Doesn't it seem like Lazar's records could be destroyed by the <government, IF his story was true? But does this make sense? Could they destroy all records? What about those that Lazar himself should have? Could we not find other students, teachers, who remember him at the school? Could we find no record for his tuition payments to the school? If the University of Iowa attempted, on government orders, to wipe out the record of my attendance there, I could find lots of other ways of proving it, including the grade transcripts I've kept filed for more years than I care to admit. <Re: Your comments about belief systems < I don't hold any one particular "belief system". You too must <realize, that being a total skeptic is a belief system as well. I don't <know what your religon is, but total denial is a belief in itself. Now, <I don't mean to call you a total skeptic, because I don't know what your <beliefs are. I have done much work into MJ-12, including the Truman <signature. The signature isn't identical, it's close though. One must <wonder where Phil Klass "found" this signature. How in the thousands of <Truman signatures did he find an "exact" match? Did he sit there for <days with a ruler and go through them? I know they aren't identical <because I scanned them both, and made some acetate(spellling?) overlays. <Right now I am led to belive that the SOM is fake. If it is, so what? <Couldn't it be a copycat hoax? I think it's possible that the Ike papers <are genuine. When I began UFO research, I thought MJ-12 was surely a <hoax, now I'm not too sure. <Regards, <Scott K. Hale < P.S. I love these discussions, they're so enjoyable! >> I've spoken to a questioned document expert (as has Stan) who told me that the Truman memo was not shot straight on so that you have, on the photographic print, some distortion of the dimensions of the signature. I have also been told that the copying process distorts the signature further, so that it would depend on what generation you used for your measurements. Because of these distortions, you can't make an acetate overlay for comparison. On the other hand, the Truman signature is situated uncharacteristicly low on the memo. This man said that to him, the signature was lifted from an October 1, 1947 document and transplanted. Although there are claims of other questioned document experts who say otherwise, I have been unable to locate them. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:01:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:19:38 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 In a message dated 96-12-14 12:20:21 EST, you write: << Noted Roswell researcher Stanton Friedman writes: > Errol: I am beginning to wonder if Ed Stewart and Kevin Randle > haven't been > hired by some disinformation outfit to waste my time on the net with > some very > strange arguments. Let me look at several: Stanton, You have a very keen mind. Richard Boylan, Ph.D. >> I take if from this that you have now signed on to this ridiculous statement as well. You have, of course, proof... I thought not. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Wormwood? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:50:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:50:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? Excellent suggestion - it's a pity some subscribers here prefer to simply whine about "a load of codswallop, what sad individual's drean up this kind of crap"! Perhaps Ed could look into this one, assuming of course that he doesn't feel it's a waste of time <G> ebk ______________________________________________ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:17:25 -0600 From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Wormwood? > Posted on the Art Bell website... http://www.artbell.com > From: Name@Withheld > To: artbell@aol.com > Date: 96-12-11 00:33:29 EST > Dear Mr. Bell, > I have listened to your program off and on for around two years now, > whenever I get "down-time". I have some disturbing information and I fell > that your program would be the perfect vehicle with which to distribute what > I have. > > I have been under the employ of the Vatican for over five years. I > have done what could best be described as counter-intelligence work, for the > church. I am a man of God and please believe me when I tell you that the > information I have is genuine, and very serious. > > [snip] ... > > Around six months ago, I was working at a data terminal in a highly > restricted area following a case that I had just completed, when I stumbled > > [much snipped] ... > > I found out about a week later through some old friends and contacts > that a contract had been placed on my life. Two days later my mother and > father were killed in a car crash in France. Three days after that, my > brother and sister were killed when their single engine plane went down on > the East coast of the U.S. ... So, as to verifying the possible authenticity of this tale ... Does anyone know of an FAA website (or other source) that would provide public information on private plane crashes (as on the east coast) during the past six months? Surely there can't have been many that many that involved a brother and sister going down in a single engine plane. There are a lot of vague statements in the above post; a few hard facts might help a little (as they would anywhere else ufology!). -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:03:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:20:24 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Stan Friedman in his responses to Russ Estes has said: <>1.I have many times said, there are 2 separate questions: Is Bob Lazar <telling the truth about >Bob Lazar? 2. Are there saucers at Area 51? That Bob <is lying about Bob clearly tells us nothing >about whther there are saucers <there. I have had a quiet witness tell me there were saucers >brought there <back in the 1940s. Led Stringfield has told of people saying there were <saucers >there. It is an obvious site for testing of any kind of highly <classified advanced propulsion >system. Russ Estes responded: <Mr. Friedman, Your answer brings up another question. <Are you saying that there have been saucers at Area 51 since the 1940's? This is a point that needs to be stressed. Here Stan is suggesting that not only is the Operations Manual accurate with its reference to Area 51 in 1954, but is suggesting wreckage was taken there in the 1940s. This sounds suspiciously like an attempt to revitalize the Plains of San Agustin crash. No first-hand witnesses have ever been found, but now we have a "quiet" witness who is telling us about Area 51 in the 1940s. Let's have some evidence rather than this endless stream of unidentified sources. We are also told that Stan doesn't necessarily believe the tales of crashed saucers at Area 51 in the 1940s, yet he was quick to use this information to refute part of Russ Estes' statements. If he didn't believe it, or thinks it less than accurate information, why bring it up at all? I've heard lots of tales about the Roswell case, Area 51, and from "secret" witnesses, yet I don't use that information to suggest someone hasn't done his homework. Russ Estes question: <* 3. Mr. Friedman, it has been said that you are the only scientist who is in <the field of Ufology (At least on a full time basis). Have you published <your protocols for the research of the phenomenon? If you have, where can I <find them? If not, Why? Stan Friedman responded: <>3. I know many scientists involved with ufology. I have no idea how one <would publish >protocols. What I have been doing over several decades <involves many different activities. It is >not like abduction research. I <have published more than 70 papers some quite large, co-authored >a book, <authored another. I think they provide readers with a very good handle on <what I do and >how I do it. .. certainly judging by responses to TOP <SECRET/MAJIC Am I to take if from the answer here that Stan is suggesting that abduction research is easier than UFO research? Or is he suggesting that abduction research lends itself to scientific protocols more readily than other forms of UFO research? I also notice that, as usual, Stan has not answered the question. It was a question about research protocols, not about how many books or articles he had published. Shouldn't a scientist, doing research, establish his research protocols, and shouldn't they be available? Now he seems to suggest in his new response that if those asking for the protocols aren't scientists then he has no obligation to supply them. When did it become necessary for someone to be labeled a scientist to ask a scientific, and in this case relevant, question? If heaven is filled with scientists with the training and expertise of Stan, it's going to be a very lonely place. Stan Friedman's response to Russ Estes question: <>5. Obviously if there was no AREA 51 or plans for one as a secret facility <prior to April, 1954, >the Manual could not refer to it. The problem is <getting history on still very highly classified >projects. I have not said <the document is genuine. Read the last paragraph on page 166 of <>TOPSECRET/MAJIC.."authentication will be no easy task, as the results must <be solid enough >to withstand the onslaught of both debunkers and a <government that denies the existence of alien <>craft". Having worked undr security with a Q clearance for 14 years and <having visited 15 >archives, I have a reasonably good idea about how <difficult it is to get information on black >programs. Russ Estes asked: <Mr. Friedman, since you brought it up, How do you define an archive? It seems that Stan is beginning to agree with us. If there was no facility, then the Operations Manual is a fake. We don't need to worry about debunkers or government agents here. What we need is evidence of a facility at Groom Lake designated Area 51 in 1954 and none has been offered. If it did exist, Stan would have shown it to us by now. As for these 15 archives, has anyone but me wondered why the total was so LOW? My dictionary defines an archive as "A place where public records and historical documents are kept." Seems to me that I've been in more than 15 archives in the state of New Mexico. And even if we follow Stan's personal definition of archives, fifteen is still a ridiculously low number. Russ Estes asked: <* 6. Mr. Randle, it quiet obvious that you and Mr. Friedman don't see eye to <eye on many subjects. It is also a fact the Mr. Friedman has done some <ground-breaking research on the Roswell case. Why have you not credited him <in either of your books on that topic? Stan Friedman responded: <>6. As I have noted and quoted in one of my papers, and as you would have <noticed if you had >read it,I was given a good acknowledgment by Kevin and <Don in "The UFO Crash at Roswell". >Kevin has written more than 2 books about <crashed saucers. Note for example "A history of >UFO Crashes".. Avon. Russ Estes responded: <Once again Mr. Friedman, I thank you for your response...but.. This question <was directed to Mr. Randle and was based on your complaints of not being <acknowledged in the bibliographies of his books. <>By the way Russ, how about telling us about your scientific background ? <Stan Friedman <Stan, since we are now on a first name basis, I have not claimed to be a <"Scientist" nor did I know that I had to clear my credentials with the <credential desk before asking any questions.<Grin> <My goal in asking the questions was not to get in on "Friedman bashing" or <dueling. Unless I am reading your answers all wrong, and that could be, what <I am getting from them is a pompous attitude and a condescending manner. <The fact that the field of Ufology does not have a certifying board for <researchers or any accredited degrees makes the acceptance of standardized <protocols and procedures even more important. Then again, if answers to the <phenomenon is not the goal we have both just wasted some precious time. <This is not the kind of correspondence that I usually engage in, in an open <forum, but due to the tone of your answers I felt it necessary to respond. <If feelings have been hurt or if my questions are inane, please forgive me. <R. Estes Did anyone else notice that Stan's response seemed to be somewhat pompous and condescending. It would seem to me that questions deserve answers and here we haven't gotten any. Once again, I point out that I merely asked for the names of the two question document experts who said the Truman memo was typed on a typewriter that existed in 1947. After several months, we still don't have a clue. I even offered to pay for the copying of the report that Stan must have of their opinions, as long as the experts are not Moore and Shandera. There has been no response to this question. And there still isn't an answer about Area 51. The record seems to indicate no secret base there in 1954, no use of the term Area 51 before 1954, yet we are still subjected to the idea that something could be hidden there because it was, after all, a secret. I also find that Russ Estes questions were clear and to the point, offering Stan an opportunity to express his opinion in a clear and concise manner. Instead, he decides to attack someone who is seeking information. Could it be that Stan doesn't have answers to the questions so instead he attacks the questioner. Isn't this forum supposed to be a free exchange of ideas and not an assault on those who ask difficult questions. I also find Stan's suggestion that I have sufficiently acknowledged his work somewhat ridiculous. He has spent years complaining about the lack of notations in my bibliographies (insert shameless plug here), and yet when Russ Estes stands up for him, he turns it around and attacks Estes. What in the hell is going on here? Stan castigates Russ Estes for not doing his homework, yet it is clear that Estes has. He makes reference to many of Stan's published work, though that work has been published in limited access journals. The fact that these so-called published papers are not available in the main stream is not Estes' fault. And even though they have been published in limited access journals, it is also clear that Estes had read a number them. The real question is why has Stan reacted with such hostility and venom to what seem to be legitimate questions. Why is it that most of us on this list attempt to share information without the personal rancor and Stan seems to swim in it. As I was growing up, I remember watching (dare I say it, a science fiction movie), Journey to the Center of the Earth. I was impressed with James Mason writing his learned paper and sending it to his fellows for review. I also hoped to find a circle in which we could engage in intelligent conversation, share ideas, no matter how radical, and test theories about the world in which we live. This list seemed to be an answer to part of that dream. Yet, there are those who seem to want it all their way without supplying proper evidence for their points of view. And when those points of view are challenged, the response is to attack rather than think. Russ Estes now embeds in his questions false assumptions but aren't questions designed to seek answers? Therefore we have no false assumptions, just desire to clarify what has been published in many arenas including Stan's self-published papers. If we all were to take Stan's advice, we'd all take our marbles and go home and this list would die because it would be only Stan's letters to himself praising his own work. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 96 10:03:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 14:12:33 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' John Powell decanted; >I not only believe it but I've been demonstrating it right here. > >What have you been demonstrating? Ignorance. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Code of ethics From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:05:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:13:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of ethics > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > > > We are incorrect if we expect traditional psychologists to be > > the alien abduction private detectives that the abductionists > > pretend to be. That is something they are _not_ trained for and > > something they are generally _not_ going to be good at. > Correct. But, due to the tremendous amount of psychic shock > attendant to most if not all 'alien' abduction cases, these are > the 'professionals' who are likely to be chosen to deal with the > problem. Privately (now known by any who reads this), I feel > that the shock would be better dealt with by one steeped in > spirituality then in psychology. I suspect that spirituality has > everything to do with the problem. By 'spirituality' I AM not > necessarily referring to those of a clerical persuasion, > although there are certainly those of the ministry that are of a > high degree of spirituality. There are a multitude of facets to > this gem of inquiry my friend. Among these is awareness. We have self-claimed experiencers from virtually all faiths and religions so I'm think that a spiritual approach might be pretty difficult to come up with. Certainly for some people their particular religious faith is going to be severely challenged by these experiences. > > Tough question: What's more important - getting the > > self-claimed abductees off the bench and back into the game; or, > > finding out what really happenned to them? > Both are of equal importance John and both can be accomplished > in my view. But if you could _only_ pick one to start with???? > > Take a glance at the Hippocratic Oath and it'll give you a > > clue as to the answer the mental health community selects. > Don't get me started on that one! <grin> Hahahaha!!! The point was that no matter how badly we want to know what has happenned, and I really want to know what happenned, our _first_ priority has to be to the health and wellness of the _person_. > > So, if we separate treatment from the detective work I think > > we can see that virtually all MHPs are basically qualified to > > initiate (or to facilitate) work with a self-claimed abductee. > The only facet of the equation that pertains to mental health > and this is marginal, is the extreme amount of trauma > emotionally that one receives as a result of this type of > experience. I was very nearly a basket case by the time that > hypno-regression was offered to me by a practicing psychologist. > Having had no other offered alternative or not being aware of > one, I jumped at the chance. That's the facet I'm talking about, that's the _only_ MHP aspect I'm talking about. Just looking after the health/wellness of the experiencer, dealing with the trauma in a traditional theraputic setting. That is something MHPs do all the time and they really don't have to have been raped to know how to help rape victims and they really don't have to know much if anything about alleged alien abductions/contact to help those people. > > Another misconception regarding psychotherapy that sometimes > > confuses things is the notion that whatever it is that's bother > > someone must be either proven right to be dealt with successfully or > > must be proven wrong and elimnated from their minds before > > theraputic success can occur. Both are completely wrong and neither > > are a part of traditional psychotherapy. > I suppose to some degree I experienced this, but as you must > realize, I AM somewhat an independent thinker and I couldn't > honestly buy the 'party line'. I have always run partially on my > intuition and at times it has kept me alive. Standard therapy isn't about whether your experience is real or not, its just about the issues related to you and your reactions. > Don't ask me to elaborate because I won't. Ok, I won't <grin>. > > Well, I suspect the debate on hypnotic regression isn't going to go > > away anytime soon so you and can just respectfully disagree for now > > <grin>. > It takes an intelligent, honest and unbiased practitioner. > However, it is O.K. that we have different opinions, I still > like yuh. <grin> Its not the type of thing that either of us need to be right or wrong on, and eventually it'll get sorted out <grin>. > > I have several papers on my BBS dealing with eyewitness observation > > studies. Children are more easily fooled, and more easily > > fool themselves but the problem doesn't go away with age. Adult > > observational accuracy is only about 50%. > Julie states that she is familiar with what you are stating and > that you are correct. > But she adds, that has nothing to do with hypnosis and > everything to do with eyewitness observation. Eyewitness > accounts contain the most fault of all as they are nearly in > every case different from one another. Yep, those studies and the ones I'm familiar are not in any way _directly_ related to hypnosis. > > I can only, just barely, in the most modest way, appreciate > > what you experienced. But remove yourself from the equation for a > > moment. You had extraordinary experiences, some of which may have > > been witnessed (or maybe they were shared). But aside from the > > testimonial power of taking your word for it how do we objectify the > > experiences and convince anyone else that they occurred? > I don't know other than to undertake what you have suggested, > that is to be constantly monitored. Some experiencers go through a period when its extremely important for them to tell others about what happenned to them for the purpose of self-testing their own telling of the experiences and for the purpose of self-testing their belief by attempting to transfer some amount of that belief to the listener. As an example only, I'm sure most of us have at one time or another met a recently converted born-again type person who was totally intent on converting _us_ at that very moment. Part of what's happenning in that event is that the person is getting something positive simply from the telling/re-telling of their story. They belief in their experience is invigorated by the re-telling of it. Another part of what's happening is that the person is hoping to get a form of validation by causing the other person to accept their story. After all, if you can convince someone else that what you're saying is true then, in an odd sort of referential way, it must be true - if it can be believed by someone else then it must be believable. > However, I want to present another can of worms. > This may in reality be a REAL catch 22, John. > The indicator of this is the seeming fact that the phenomena > itself controls it's own flow of information concerning itself. > Vallee has done a lot of discussion on this aspect if I > understand it correctly. I suspect that in many if not all of > the cases, if a person is being monitored, the events will cease > or failing that the monitoring equipment will be rendered > useless for a period of time corresponding to yet another > reported abduction. What does one do in such a situation? It is > obvious that something is occurring, but what? Of the two options I'd prefer to have the events cease and I'm sure the 'subject' would too! There is a catch-22 here. If we establish elaborate electronic monitoring and that equipment shows _NO_ physical activity and _NO_ signs of tampering with the gear, yet the abductee reports that they were in fact abducted, we would have no choice except to assume that whatever happenned was non-physical. > You got me, buddy. Still, you have to admit that based upon the > numbers alone, there is something decidedly strange going on. I've been convincved that something was going on for decades... > I feel it is ominous. It serves to unsettle me to a degree. > I don't feel good about it when I think of it. Furthermore on > another note, it is most unsettling to note that on the New > Age/UFO/E.T. conference circuit, we witness proclaimed experts > declaring that the Alien Space Brothers are on their way here > with eminent arrival to completely restructure our systems of > religion and to replace the ten commandments. Who asked 'em? I'm not a member of any system of religion so I guess I get the short end of the stick? I'd be better served if the aliens replaced my cable TV company... > What does that tell you about the experts that promote this type > of material? > I suggest that these folks are looking for a messiah that is, > someone to relieve them of the responsibilities for their own > actions. This was the case of the Jews when Jesus came onto the > scene. They were looking for the messiah to take them out of > hard times to sever the Roman yoke. I think most people go through periods when they question what they believe and period when they want a set of beliefs that actually work for them. I don't think that now is fundamentally different from any other period of time except that things happen much faster in this time period. > > No argument there. But imagine this: Imagine the leaders of > > the AMA, the APA and a dozen other prestigeous medical groups held a > > news conference and announced that, Yes, aliens are here abducting > > people. > You gonna have some panic'd people. Some. > > That constitutes recognition of the (alleged) problem but what > > good would it do, what would happen next? > After the excitement wore down, it might get some real and > useful research in progress. > I AM compelled to add however, that this research does not > necessarily call for an abundance of mental health > professionals. I don't feel professional status or occupation in > these regards are as important as ethical principles. It actually doesn't call for an abundance of anything except funding. > I understand that. I have even met a couple who privately shared > with me the strange events that they had experienced not too > dissimilar to my own. Perhaps what is needed is a revolution of > sorts that will remove the minority from visibility and place > those of true ethics in the spotlight. > However, how this could be accomplished I have no idea. Somehow > these in the minority should be shown for the scam artists that > they are. Those changes happen across generations. As one generation moves out or prominence another one moves in. It takes time. > > But I don't think this is about scientists having an open > > mind. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that this is really about > > experiencer's wanting much greater acceptance than they currently > > have... > I don't know. I have somewhat disassociated myself from the > emotional turmoil that was a result of my experience(s). It > doesn't bother me overmuch that you can't accept outright what I > recall happened to me. To you it is only information subject to > question. It is not a part of your subjective experience ...I.E: > Knowledge. To me however, a good deal of it is knowledge. You've passed through that period when you _needed_ people to believe you (because it helped you to believe you). It _shouldn't_ matter to you that others don't or can't believe you, and you realize that. That's about as rock-bottom normal as you cannget <grin>. > > > Electronic monitoring. I suppose it is possible John, but at > > > what cost? > > A few thousand dollars, at most. Possibly even for free _IF_ > > abductees were to start filing police reports. > I would be willing to do that as I AM sure others would, if > assured that there would be NO ridicule from those within this > profession. I feel however, that this is extremely unlikely. It occurred to me when I was writing that that in those areas where we are _already_ using electronic monitoring of pre-release convicts the costs would be essentially zero. The equipment is already in place as are the people to do the monitoring. > > You lost me on that one. Please try again. > Some will see paranormal occurrences while some won't. > There is much more to 'sight' then the physical eyes. > Something does NOT have to be a part of everyone's subjective > experience in order to be real. I get it, yes. > > I think you've lost me again. Reality is. That is a > > fundamental concept that would require an enormous amount of > > scientific evidence to shake. One very basic assumption is that > > there is a thing called 'reality' that we can, with much work, > > observe and figure out. > Reality IS, yes, but it is composed of layers or levels. > Energy IS and All is composed of energy. Matter and energy after > all is transmutable. > Energy can be described as vibrating at different frequency, > that is the different components that comprise it vibrate at > different rates. What I AM suggesting here is that as this > planet's rate of vibrational frequency is on the rise, so it is > that everything of a non-sentient nature is rising with it. > Occupants of this planet that bear sentience must let go of > certain qualities that serve as restriction in order to rise > along with everything else. This higher frequency is disrupting > the natural electrochemical action within the brains of many of > those who are most resistant to this vibratory rise. These may > all be metaphysical tenets to be sure, but I believe that I read > a respectable scientific report somewhere that indicated that > the vibratory rate of this planet was indeed on the upswing. > Although not constituting absolute proof of the above, the > indications are there. How do we objectively prove that things are vibrating at a higher frequency, how do we prove that this affects human thinking? > > On the flip side, we do _assume_ that while 'reality' changes > > a tiny bit over time, and while we change a tiny bit over time, that > > the combined change is not sufficient to invalidate 'reality' or our > > observations of it. The dangerous assumption inherent in the basic > > assumption is that we don't think our 'mind' (our consciousness) is > > changing much. Since we do all of our observing and understanding > > with our mind it would be a big problem if _that_ was the element > > that was evolving...<grin> > All is in a flux of evolvement and change in my view, John. You and I have a very different vocabulary but we may be talking about pretty much the same thing. > > The human mind uses all sorts of checks and balances during > > normal conscious worktime to 'determine' the veracity of incoming > > data (memory). Most if not all of those checks and balances are > > suspended or drastically reduced during hypnotic regression. An > > item comes into a person's memory stream without passing through > > those checks and balances and once it is there it is recorded as if > > it _did_ pass through those checks and balances. In other words, > > the person 'acquires' these 'memories' and has no real reason to > > disbelieve them and every reason to accept them. They are stored in > > the person's mind as if they were real and once stored that way they > > cannot be changed (without active, aggressive and intrusive > > "brainwashing"). > I must constitute an anomaly, John. I remember things and for me > they are extremely real, but certain of these I strongly > question. Even though I disagree with nearly everything that the > practitioner who regressed me espouses, he did not create any > confabulation in my mind by suggestion as to where my experience > was leading. I would like to lay that on his doorstep along with > other things, but I honestly can't. But the point is that you wouldn't be able to detect the confabulation generally. (Specifically, if confabulation happenned to be counter to somehting you already knew you might get a hint of it.) > There have been encounters of sorts and attempts, but they have > been nipped in the bud. > I can tell you that these were of a purely paranormal nature. > Most of them involved Julie as well. I don't know why most abductionists ignore the paranormal aspects of the event. Until recently the paranormal aspects were _actively_ censored out of abduction accounts, even by MUFON. > > One of the basic elements of the alien abduction event scenario is > > that abductions routinely occur to abductees and are > > cross-generational. That should make it easy to find suitable > > candidates for electronic monitoring. > Yes, I understand this to be true. I do not know if this applies > in my case and if it did, I feel sure that it would be strongly > denied. I don't know if that's _actually_ true but its what the abductionists are saying. > > NO argument about the trauma. I (personal opinion) suspect > > that they are not physical events at all. Electronic monitoring > > would likely prove that. That doesn't mean it isn't real but it > > would change the direction of abduction research. > I could recite a few of the more recent episodes that would > underline what you suggest above. > Julie awoke in the middle of the night during one of these to > see a gray coming out of the ceiling above pulling me up toward > it out of my body. The more physical portion of my body still > reposed flat on it's back. She made a loud noise and I vividly > recall her stating that if I lay back they couldn't take me. > Needless to say, I did. Now this isn't something that any > instruments can capture other than the physical secondary sounds > which aren't necessarily present in each occurrence or all > occurrences. > The above is the tail end of one of these episodes. What started > the episode was Julie being awakened by a droning noise that > increased in volume. She opened her eyes and began to notice > that the room we were in was becoming lighter and lighter. She > could 'feel' who ever was causing this become cognizant of the > fact that she (Julie) was aware of what was going on. At that > point, the room began to grow dimmer. Julie would close her eyes > to experience the same thing a little later on. She stated to me > the next day that she found the event to be extremely interesting. > Finally she went totally back to sleep only to be awakened with > the view of me being pulled upward. > No such activity has occurred since we have been here in the > four corners area. I guess the move was a benefit in more ways than one! Your description suggests that it was much more a 'paranormal' event than a physical event. > I follow you. However, this training that I alluded to isn't > necessarily mental, but spiritual. Well, to be acceptable it'll have to 'packaged' in such a way as to be non-spiritual <grin>. > > Suppose this was done by _real_ mainstream scientists and > > MHPs. Even then do you think the taxpayers of this country would > > stand still for nationwide taxpayer-funded abductee version of a > > flu-shot??? > Again, I follow you. However, not many medical people in my > experience would be qualified to provide this training much less > suggest where to obtain it. I also wish to point out that those > who are qualified to provide this training would accept very > little recompense for it. It would also be extremely difficult > if not impossible to provide this type of training in a > classroom type setting. > But then again, I might be serving to limit things. :-) If average people can be trained then so can medical people, if medical people can be trained then they should be able to train others... Just may take a little more work. > > You and I won't live long enough to see that. We know that > > dowsing is a real, objective and physical phenomenon but we really > > don't have a good model for how it works. We know that magnetic > > fields are somehow involved in functinal dowsing but we don't really > > know how. We also know that magnetic fields are involved in a number > > of mind-reality phenomena, some of which are observational. That's > > (so far as I know) about the sum total of what we can safely say we > > know to date. (Except that magnetic fields, like gravitational > > fields, don't exist on their own but are the result of something > > else.) > O.K. I'll tell you that I strongly feel that the majority of > mankind had better see it John. > This phenomena is occurring to more and more people all of the > time. > We are entering a new paradigm and I feel that mankind's well > being as a whole may depend upon this. There are those of > mankind however that will feel no impact of these occurrences. I just don't think it'll happen that quick. It might, but I just don't see any indication that it will. In fact, the best indicators right now suggest to me that the entire area of so-called alien abductions is ging to winding down over the next roughly 10 or less years. If there's nothing new to report then you have to re-report the past and you can only re-report the past a few times before it becomes boring... > I do not feel that these phenomena fall into an MHP realm John. > It is NOT a mental phenomena. Some of the cases may occur at > least partially on a physical (third dimensional) level, but > other aspects of each case seem to occur on a higher level of > reality. > Our explanation of the etheric seemed to make some sense to you. > If this is in fact a level of reality in support of the physical > as I have tried to indicate, and most of the occurrences do take > place upon this and/or the astral or auric, then perhaps you > can extrapolate the possible ramifications upon the physical. Our vocabulary differences and the terminology could get thick here...<grin> When I say 'mental' I'm not suggesting 'non-real,' I'm only making the distinction between physical and non-physical. What you call the 'etheric,' because it is non-physical, doesn't necessarily mean non-real and I think is an aspect of the 'real,' non-physical, mental realm. The idea that because something is 'mental' and/or non-physical that is is therefore non-real is _wrong_ (my opinion). The MHP aspect of this is _strictly_ related to the therapy associated with the trauma of the experiences. > I AM suggesting that perhaps mankind is being undermined here. Could be. I don't know enough to know if its a negative or positive thing. I don't even know enough to know if concepts like 'negative' or 'positive' are even applicable. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 DO NOT ANWSER THIS MESSAGE From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:54:36 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:54:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: DO NOT ANWSER THIS MESSAGE Please, when forwarding to all in the list, use the Blind Carbon Copy feature in your mailers, otherwise, everyone will have to wade through a six screen list just to get to a message as short as this one. Fancisco
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Dec 96 17:10:03 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:22:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance >Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:32:12 -0500 From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance References: <2.2.32.19961211070336.00b5ad20@globalserve.net>< John Powell wrote in an answer to Theresa about the AA film; >> Now, finally, please state why you think _any other_ choice makes more sense, and please do so by refuting the simple logic stated above. << John, It ain't gonna happen that way. Many people have stated that this is simply the only way to go, and that may be the reason why Mr Mantle has 'buggered off' to put it bluntly. Take any other 'shattering' event from the mid-eighties, and what do you find? Proof that's attacked as 'slanted', people coming down on sides and conspiracy buffs connecting even more dots in an effort to get things to look the way they want. Look at Dr Wolf at the moment, or Dulce, or even MJ-12. Consider the fact that one of the first things I heard about Kodak is that they wouldn't verify this because of their military connections. Bull. They wouldn't verify this because of the loss of their credibility, so we have the inestimable 'Italian connection' give some fairly meaningless reports on the film/copy/cutting room floor snippets. Lets push for a couple of independent labs to look at this, arbitaryily chosen at random from a list. James D, Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76710.234 | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Dec 96 17:10:05 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:23:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance >> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 18:23:20 -0500 From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> << James wrote to Theresa regarding the AA film.... >> Roswell Footage Ltd. lost a minuscule percentage of income to people who had the courage of their convictions. Or should that be, people who are currently facing convictions. << 1) Have you seen the end of year accounts for this company? 2) Why was the name changed after 6 months trading? 3) Do the copyrights still hold? 4) Convictions!?!?! James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:51:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:22:03 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:03:59 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: "fake" and "self-claimed" > References: <2.2.32.19961211070158.00749fe4@globalserve.net> > Going round the big red barn again, let's see if I can clarify two > issues. > Or maybe three. A while ago I noticed that two abductees, John Velez and > Whitley Strieber, thought the alien picture Strieber posted here was > more like the aliens they feel they've seen than any other picture > known. > That made me suggest a test. Show a group of abductees this picture and > several others, of the standard alien. Ask them which picture is closest > to the aliens they feel they've seen. If most of them pick the same > one... > So now for the objections. Dennis Stacy wrote: > > Now guarantee that when they say they haven't seen it, they > > haven't, indeed, seen it. Guarantee next that they haven't seen any similar > > images now almost ubiquitous in the modern media, beginning with, say, the > > cover of "Communion" itself. > Well, of course they've seen these alien images, just as we all have. I > don't think that's relevant, though. We'd be asking people who all agree > on the general form of these aliens to pick a specific variant of it. If > they agree on the variant -- on very fine details, in other words -- > then maybe they've actually seen the same thing. > Hard to guarantee that they haven't seen it. That's a good point. I > think we could be reasonably sure, because the new image hasn't gotten > around much, and in any case, when I've seen abductees in group > discussions, they're not very ufologically savvy. So if this new image > only circulates in limited ufological circles (hmmm...what a name for a > new airplane maneuver...don't think I'd want to be on a plane that was > doing one of those....), the odds are that most abductees wouldn't see > it. Though I know this doesn't validate the test scientifically! > On to John Powell: > > Show _faked_ alien pictures to a > > > > group of self-claimed abductees to see which _fake_ picture they > > > > like? > I had trouble with two emotion-laden words in that question, "fake" and > "self-claimed." Re fake, I suggested a parallel to a police identikit. > But John says there's a difference: > > The difference is that you'd be showing known fake pictures...<grin> > The word "fake," I still think, is throwing a cloud of emotion over this > simple question. What we're talking about here are pictures that aren't > drawn from life. A police artist works with witnesses to create an > impression of a suspect. Likewise with pictures of aliens. All the alien > images we've seen -- the cover of Communion and the rest -- are artists' > impressions, based on descriptions from people who believe they've seen > the aliens. > In that respect, an identikit picture and a drawing or > computer-generated image of an alien are similar. They certainly serve a > similar purpose -- to provide an image of something that wasn't there to > pose for the artist. > In any case, I don't see how you can call the covers of Communion or > Intruders or any of countless other books "fake" pictures. Nobody ever > claimed those aliens were real. > On to "self-claimed." That struck me as a mocking expression, especially > in context. To which John replied: > > So far as alien abductions are concerned we have no evidence that such > > events have occurred therefore those who claim they have occurred (to > > them) are accurately 'self-claimed abductees.'...Why do you think refering > to abductees and their stories as > "self-claimed" somehow invalidates them? > "Self-claimed" or words to that effect are routinely used in journalism > to underline what are perceived as shoddy pretentions or illegitimate > titles. For example, the President of Mexico would never be called the > "self-claimed President." But the "Supreme Commander" of a guerilla > force seeking to depose the president might well be called the > "self-proclaimed Supreme Commander." > I don't think you'll find many usages of these terms -- or maybe even > any -- that aren't mocking or critical. > I asked if anyone would speak about a "self-claimed rape victim," and > John replied: > > or a rape victim I would use the term "self-claimed" during the > > initial reporting of the alleged event only because at that time it is a > > self-claimed (and alleged) event. (An exception of course would be such > > an event that was independently witnesses in which case it would be an > > "alleged" event and there would be no need to refer to it as > > self-claimed.) > But this, I think, is exactly what is <not> done. Take the Mike Tyson > rape case. Imagine a newspaper story in which his accuser was referred > to as "the self-claimed rape victim." There's hardly a reader alive who > wouldn't catch the implication that the charges were false. So instead, > newspapers use neutral words like "accuser," which simply state the > facts. > Another example. An Englishman named Declan McManus made quite a > reputation in the pop world for records he made under the name Elvis > Costello. In fact, to most of the world he simply <is> Elvis Costello. > So now let's say I come along and I start writing about "the > self-claimed Elvis Costello." There isn't a soul in the rock and roll > world who wouldn't know I despised him. (I don't, by the way...) > Cut now to Michael Jackson. A few years ago, he signed a deal with MTV. > He'd do something for them (forgot what), and in return they'd refer to > him, even in their news broadcasts, as the "king of pop." Incredibly, > the phrase caught on, and Jackson was called that everywhere. That must > have been his greatest publicity coup ever. If I'd written about him > after that, I'd have been tempted to call him "the self-claimed king of > pop," meaning it as a dig, and feeling justified in sniping at him that > way, because the phrase was originally used deceptively. > > (If I kept it up long enough, I'd be cut off Sony Music's press list, > and my editor would get a nasty letter demanding an apology. You think > ufology is nasty?) > Greg Sandow Hi Greg. There's one thing that struck me as I read your post: Do you mean to use a "imitating-image" (I didn't say fake) of an alien and show it to abductees to see if they have seen the figure before? Alright if it was a single alien-person, but to me it sounds like showing a picture of a black man to a race of whites and they will go "Yeah! He's black alright!". I don't mean to offend you, but you're not talking about a person - you're talking about a whole supposed alien race here, right? Jorgen / WUFOC Search for other documents from or mentioning: west | gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Wormwood? From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 17:11:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:24:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? >> Subject: Wormwood? >> Posted on the Art Bell website... http://www.artbell.com ><-snip-> >> --PRIEST-- >Sheesh!, >What a load of codswallop, what sad individual's drean up this kind of crap, >Its not even technically correct, all this rubbish about encrypted files and >special terminals. >-Niko. Niko and all: I'm interested in your assessment of technical inaccuracies. Please expand. It seems to me that the best way this "priest" can get his message out is to identify himself if he believes as strongly as he seems that he's a target. His best chance is to not keep this anonymous. After all, if he's well hidden, telling us his name does not jeopardize his cover. If he is killed after going public, his own cause is more supported or would add more credence to the story. Of course, this story could also be a hoax. I wasn't particularly convinced by what was said and yet it was not particularily delusional. Then again, Hale-Bopp could be the "Second Coming" and the Vatican could be the Anti-Christ. Those in power have the most to lose. <Grin>!!! Now that's the sort of material that would appear delusional. Wouldn't be the first time the Vatican was responsible for both keeping the "facts" hidden and murdering its enemies. Such behavior is well documented in "history books." Art Bell has taken the bait and we can all wait for the next chapter. I'll likely read it if its printed. Ernie Karhu
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 15 UFO UpSate: IUFO: (Fwd) '3rd Rock' Goes 3-D From: "Steve Wingate" <stevew@world.std.com> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:24:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:26:19 -0500 Subject: UFO UpSate: IUFO: (Fwd) '3rd Rock' Goes 3-D (UFOs go commercial $$$ --SW) '3rd Rock' Goes 3-D By Gary Levin NEW YORK (Variety) - NBC plans a 3-D season finale for ``3rd Rock From the Sun'' during the May sweeps, and the Coca-Cola Co. will distribute more than 15 million pairs of glasses to viewers. In what's touted as the first live-action network sitcom to employ the technique (The Simpsons tried it a few years back), portions of the 3rd Rock episode will transport the series' transplanted al iens to a 3-D netherworld, although no storyline has yet been developed. There may be a mini-trend in the making, as ABC reportedly is eyeing its own May stunt week for 3-D episodes, according to a leaked memo from entertainment president Jamie Tarses. Coca-Cola's Barq's root beer brand, which targets a similar young demo, will support the ``3rd Rock'' stunt with an estimated $8 million to $10 million promotion, putting glasses on bottles and six- packs, mounting a TV and print ad campaign and giving away three 1962 Ramblers, the aliens' Earth transport vehicle. ``It's a very original show, and we feel Barq's is a very original root beer,'' said a spokesman at Coca-Cola, which acquired the brand last year. Barq's has tried wackier promos in the past, including a DNA match-and-win during O.J. Simpson's criminal trial. And Diet Coke sponsored a 3-D halftime show during the 1989 Super Bowl. Reuters/Variety c Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. Anomalous Images and UFO Files http://www.linex.com/ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Dec 96 01:20:03 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:25:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance To James Easton: Re: Autopsy Cameraman James, <<Until the origins can be proven, or the US Government acknowledges ownership, our hypothetical original film would simply be film of unknown provenance, which has been dated to 19whatever.>> Well, not exactly. If the footage is real government footage, this cameraman is an eyewitness. First hand even. And if he checks out there is no reason he would be any less credible than any other witness in this field. He can tie it to the government without them saying anything just like all the other eyewitnesses or second hand witnesses in the classic Roswell case. If he is an actor and was hired to play the part, he is still a witness. A witness to a hoax. A rather significant first hand witness, either way. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 17:08:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:24:36 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: KRandle993@aol.com > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:13:44 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > In a message dated 96-12-14 13:48:54 EST, Scott Hale writes: > << Ed, > < Re: MJ-12 > < To answer your quesion, IF a group like MJ-12 existed, there would > <be no supporting documentation anywhere you or anyone outside of the > <loop could get at it. > <Re: Bob Lazar > <Doesn't it seem like Lazar's records could be destroyed by the > <government, IF his story was true? > But does this make sense? Could they destroy all records? What about those > that Lazar himself should have? Could we not find other students, teachers, > who remember him at the school? Could we find no record for his tuition > payments to the school? If the University of Iowa attempted, on government > orders, to wipe out the record of my attendance there, I could find lots of > other ways of proving it, including the grade transcripts I've kept filed for > more years than I care to admit. > <Re: Your comments about belief systems > < I don't hold any one particular "belief system". You too must > <realize, that being a total skeptic is a belief system as well. I don't > <know what your religon is, but total denial is a belief in itself. Now, > <I don't mean to call you a total skeptic, because I don't know what your > <beliefs are. I have done much work into MJ-12, including the Truman > <signature. The signature isn't identical, it's close though. One must > <wonder where Phil Klass "found" this signature. How in the thousands of > <Truman signatures did he find an "exact" match? Did he sit there for > <days with a ruler and go through them? I know they aren't identical > <because I scanned them both, and made some acetate(spellling?) overlays. > <Right now I am led to belive that the SOM is fake. If it is, so what? > <Couldn't it be a copycat hoax? I think it's possible that the Ike papers > <are genuine. When I began UFO research, I thought MJ-12 was surely a > <hoax, now I'm not too sure. > <Regards, > <Scott K. Hale > < P.S. I love these discussions, they're so enjoyable! >> > I've spoken to a questioned document expert (as has Stan) who told me that > the Truman memo was not shot straight on so that you have, on the > photographic print, some distortion of the dimensions of the signature. I > have also been told that the copying process distorts the signature further, > so that it would depend on what generation you used for your measurements. > Because of these distortions, you can't make an acetate overlay for > comparison. On the other hand, the Truman signature is situated > uncharacteristicly low on the memo. This man said that to him, the signature > was lifted from an October 1, 1947 document and transplanted. Although there > are claims of other questioned document experts who say otherwise, I have > been unable to locate them. > KRandle The copies that I used with my overlay are the EXACT copies that Klass says are doubles. I still haven't been told how Mr. Klass made this amazing discovery. Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Code of Ethics/Film Analysis From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:04:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:29:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of Ethics/Film Analysis >From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics >Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:32:47 -0700 >---------- >> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics >> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 12:35:03 -0500 >> From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics >> We actually have come a long way it just seems like we haven't because >> we don't have THE answer. We now have the technology to properly >> analyze photographs and films and in the last few years we've determined >> that two long-standing items (one photograph and one film) >were >> actually ordinary objects filmed/photographed in extraordinary >> circumstances. - - - - - JC: Steven, I wasn't aware of this. I must have missed this on another of your threads. Could you possibly supply the names and dates of the photograph & film, what firm did the technical analyses, what were the ordinary objects that were misinterpreted and how I might obtain a copy of this report? Thanks, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | earthwrk |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Dec 96 13:42:26 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:34:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance To John Powell: Re Autopsy cameraman John, <<Did you forget about the scene showing a guy in military uniform on the other side of the 'window?'>> No such scene occurs in the Santilli autopsy footage. I don't know what footage you looked at but it appears we are not talking about the same footage. Therefore, anything that you say about it is irrelevant. It amazes me how many people haven't even examined the evidence that they are so keen to judge. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:29:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:27:17 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 14:07:27 -0500 > From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > References: <2.2.32.19961213074403.00aee74c@globalserve.net> > Re: MJ-12 > > To answer your quesion, IF a group like MJ-12 existed, there would > be no supporting documentation anywhere you or anyone outside of the > loop could get at it. Thank you for the insight. I don't agree. If it was real involving people and resources, somewhere there would be a "fingerprint". We may well not be smart enough to recognize it. If one was to go by your assumption, might as well stop all research efforts and take up a new hobby called IFology. There are already too many people into IFology. My interests are in Ufology and keeping the two separated. > Re: Bob Lazar > > Doesn't it seem like Lazar's records could be destroyed by the > government, IF his story was true? But Lazar does have records. Those records that we know to exist do not support his story. > Re: Your comments about belief systems > > I don't hold any one particular "belief system". You too must > realize, that being a total skeptic is a belief system as well. I don't > know what your religon is, but total denial is a belief in itself. Now, > I don't mean to call you a total skeptic, because I don't know what your > beliefs are. My beliefs, as well as yours, are irrelevant. I am not prepared to relegate Ufology to the realm of faith and religion. A person's belief system doesn't add any vestige of knowledge to the subject. There are already too many people that approach ufology from the foundation of belief systems. I am interested in what we can substantiate with confidence based on what survives after discernement and critical thinking is applied and can be independently verified with source documentation identified. > I have done much work into MJ-12, including the Truman > signature. The signature isn't identical, it's close though. One must > wonder where Phil Klass "found" this signature. How in the thousands of > Truman signatures did he find an "exact" match? Did he sit there for > days with a ruler and go through them? I know they aren't identical > because I scanned them both, and made some acetate(spellling?) overlays. > Right now I am led to belive that the SOM is fake. If it is, so what? > Couldn't it be a copycat hoax? I think it's possible that the Ike papers > are genuine. When I began UFO research, I thought MJ-12 was surely a > hoax, now I'm not too sure. Of all the thousands and thousands of Truman documents, the signature known to be genuine comes from a short letter from President Truman to Dr. Bush, dated October 1, 1947 - one week after the alleged Truman Memorandum of September 24, 1947. Interesting that they were dated only a week apart and that the known real signature was also addressed to an alleged MJ-12 member. Dr. Vannevar Bush has been a focus of intense research by many ufologists since the late 70s and the emergence of the Wilbur Smith memo. Assuming that the two signatures have to be identical is a false assumption. As a matter of fact, they are not identical. Supporters of MJ-12 base their arguments on an incorrect argument. What can be demonstrated and shown is whether or not the two signature samples share a common ancestor. Dr. Willy Smith, UNICAT Project, published his analysis demonstrating that both the known real signature and the alleged Truman memorandum signature do indeed share a common ancestor. Since we know that the Oct. 1, 1947 signature is a genuine signature, the Truman signature of the alleged Truman/Forrestal memo has to be a copy of the original. That makes the entire memo bogus. The step-by-step analysis was published in JUST CAUSE, No. 27, March 1991. I suggest you find a copy and read it. You won't find it in Friedman's new book. On several occasions on this list I have asked Friedman about it. To this date he has yet to respond to the above damming evidence that shows the alleged Truman/Forrestal memorandum to be bogus. I have also recently spoken to Dr. Willy Smith. He tells me that since the publication of his analysis in JUST CAUSE in 1991, the analysis has never been addressed by Friedman. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------ Search for other documents from or mentioning: egs | shale |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:56:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:31:46 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > John Powell wrote: > >I think it would be an interesting idea to have all abductees perform > >an IdentiKit. Such a process would be close to singularly objective. > I personally don't think uniformity of entity descriptions by > abductees necessarily proves anything. I don't think it _proves_ anything either. > For instance, if a random group of people were asked to use an > Identikit to create a likeness of Santa Claus (in the holiday > spirit), I suspect that there would be a fairly high degree of > uniformity in the results -- even though there is no single > "accurate" portrait of this imaginary character. Imaginary!?!?!?! <grin> Millions and millions of people, generation after generation, multi-cultiral and multi-national, have stories of Santa. Are you unmoved by the enormity of that mass of anecdotal evidence!!!!???? And what about the presents, hmmmmm???? While its true that this alleged creature called "Santa" is nowhere to be found the physical evidence, (various presents labeled as being "From: Santa"), is everywhere (not unlke the stories and photographs of alleged physical markings). I simply cannot believe that you would mock Santa in this way! Greg, I think you'd better have a talk with Vince! > Since there is such undeniable cultural consciousness of the > archetypal "gray" aliens (based on publicized abductee > descriptions), I suspect that any random group of > Identikit-equipped test subjects asked to provide a picture of > what aliens look like would undoubtedly provide a fairly uniform > portrait of the classic "gray" aliens. I suspect that is what would happen. Dennis mentioned this in a previous message to Greg, that it is not possible to find people who don't have that general image in their mind. This makes using an image, even a police IdendtKit image, as a witness test > In short, cultural contamination of abduction lore through > widespread media exposure has rendered uniform entity > descriptions by self-proclaimed abductees useless as evidence for > the phenomenon. Yes, I'm afraid that's a perfectly accurate statement. One of the sub-themes going on during an IdentiKit session is that the victim is being observed during the process. The process of making and changing picture elements is observed. Sometimes this process is witnessed by a detective, sometimes its recorded. The process itself, if there are no prejudices involved or leading questions, can be a great help to the victim in remembering details. I prefer this to hypnosis any day. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) Search for other documents from or mentioning: sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: BGBOPPER@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 01:32:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:26:26 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Mr. Friedman, In my second post I asked,* * 1. If we agree on the fact that area 51 is a top secret test facility (a nd I'm sure that we all know that it is just that) and if the only reference to any alien object at area 51 was made by Bob Lazar... What is the point? You answered, >1.I have many times said, there are 2 separate questions: Is Bob Lazar telling the truth about >Bob Lazar? 2. Are there saucers at Area 51? That Bob is lying about Bob clearly tells us nothing >about whther there are saucers there. I have had a quiet witness tell me there were saucers >brought there back in the 1940s. Led Stringfield has told of people saying there were saucers >there. It is an obvious site for testing of any kind of highly classified advanced propulsion >system. I then asked, Mr. Friedman, Your answer brings up another question. Are you saying that there have been saucers at Area 51 since the 1940's? And then you reply with, > I didn't say I believed there have been saucers at Area 51 back to the >1940s. I said I had heard stories completely independent of Lazar about saucers >there. I find it very interesting that you use your "Quiet Witness" and Led (Len) Stringfield...(Ya see Stan... I do my homework... I Knew that you meant Len <Grin>) to make an argument, and then you reverse your stance the very next day. Hmmmm verrrrry interesting! You also said that my questions "Had imbedded in them a lot of false assumptions." The only false assumption that I made was thinking that you might answer them in a civil and straight forward manner. Stan, I think I'll leave my marbles right here. Even though I am honored that you find it necessary to throw in a few cutting remarks you might reconsider getting into a duel with me, it is unproductive. Thanks once again for your response, R. Estes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 "Whee, should'a seen the UFO stir that one caused!" From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 08:08:23 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:29:58 -0500 Subject: "Whee, should'a seen the UFO stir that one caused!" Apology to MW #69 (For December 15, 1996) William Mayers wrote in the newsgroups: > >: >: >Alex Krycek (redherring@illuminati.com) wrote: > >: >: >: Ignore all evidence of crop circles! The government > >: >: >: has invented crop circles to hide the real alien conspiracy. > >Crop circles are conspiracy of practical jokers to make New Agers > >and UFO-nauts look dumb. > >Not that this is hard to do. > >-- > >Lester Ness lness@indiana.edu >And gawd, it's probably as much fun as tying a couple large >helium-filled mylar balloons together, suspending a few >battery-powered Christmas-tree lights from 'em and releasing them over >a public park 'round midnight! Whee, should'a seen the UFO stir that >one caused! Hee hee hee hee hee!! Yo, the lights even blinked in a >repetitive fashion..."jus' hadda be the mother of all alien >motherships!" What a yuck! Damn, maybe a few of us'll do it again! <cackle!> > Bill Mayers ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ How about this sociopath? A frightened little dweeb . . . Helps fake our pseudo culture For the seniors, straights, and feebs. He pulls the fuzzy muslin Over sense and sensibility. Formless, dense, and clue-less He charts their disability. Folks are dull to suit this liar He dims their feeble glow. A glow so feeble to begin with Because he made it so. Lehmberg@snowhill.com This is the fellow personally responsible for the fact that many believe professional wrestling is real, and that the Moon Landing was faked. The ignorance that this social predator decries; however, is a direct result of malicious acts such as he encourages here. HE is the reason for a stupidity of humankind that is far, far from congenital. Truly, it is bred in his mylar balloons, and Christmas tree lights; it thrashes like a diseased animal in faked crop circles; it rides a polluted wave of scared fundamentalists who fan fake fires of this ignorance while dousing productive glimmerings of real elevation and advancement. He is living proof that the world improves with every funeral, and I wait patiently for his demise. Perhaps the *Cropcircle Fakirs* consider him more of their ART. "You, with the proud look . . .yeah YOU! Out of the gene pool, as you INSIST on treating it like your toilet!" Search for other documents from or mentioning: lehmberg | redherring |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:41:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:30:53 -0500 Subject: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: "fake" and "self-claimed" > On to John Powell: > > > > Show _faked_ alien pictures to a > > > > group of self-claimed abductees to see which _fake_ picture they > > > > like? > I had trouble with two emotion-laden words in that question, "fake" > and "self-claimed." Re fake, I suggested a parallel to a police > identikit. But John says there's a difference: > > The difference is that you'd be showing known fake pictures...<grin> > The word "fake," I still think, is throwing a cloud of emotion over > this simple question. What we're talking about here are pictures that > aren't drawn from life. A police artist works with witnesses to create > an impression of a suspect. Likewise with pictures of aliens. All the > alien images we've seen -- the cover of Communion and the rest -- are > artists' impressions, based on descriptions from people who believe > they've seen the aliens. Although it remains uncorroborated, Whitley states that an analysis of the photograph shows it most likely to be "fake." (I hope you didn't miss those messages.) An ordinary police IdentiKit sketch is _assumed_ to be based on some amount of real likeness. Do you remember police sketches of say the Unabomber, or various other known or alleged bad guys? They're not photographically accurate but they're not all that far off either. That's the difference. Within the practical boundaries of a police investigation we can be pretty sure that some elements of the resulting sketch are close enough to start showing that picture around, and we can also be pretty sure that the initiating event actually happenned. In the case of abductions we have no proof that the events actually happenned _and_ we'd be showing around a photograph that didn't survive critical scrutiny. The results, any results, would therefore be useless. > In any case, I don't see how you can call the covers of Communion or > Intruders or any of countless other books "fake" pictures. Nobody ever > claimed those aliens were real. I have no way of knowing if the hundreds and hundreds of pictures drawn by self-claimed abductees are fake or not, including the one on the cover of Communion. I only know that Whitley claims to have had _his_ picture analyzed and the report back is that it is most likely fake. The idea you propose is fine, just use something _other_ than the fake photograph or, better yet, have real police IdentiKit people construct some sketches. > On to "self-claimed." That struck me as a mocking expression, > especially in context. To which John replied: > > So far as alien abductions are concerned we have no evidence that > > such events have occurred therefore those who claim they have > > occurred (to them) are accurately 'self-claimed abductees.'...Why do > > you think refering to abductees and their stories as "self-claimed" > > somehow invalidates them? > "Self-claimed" or words to that effect are routinely used in > journalism to underline what are perceived as shoddy pretentions or > illegitimate titles. For example, the President of Mexico would never > be called the "self-claimed President." But the "Supreme Commander" of > a guerilla force seeking to depose the president might well be called > the "self-proclaimed Supreme Commander." With the difference being that we don't dispute that there actually is a President of Mexico and we don't dispute that there is actually a guerilla leader. We know these people exist, we have proof that they exist. In the context of your example I can see how terms like "self-claimed" have negative connotations. In the context of so-called alien abductions we are forced to dispute the entire event scenario because we have no evidence that it exists. If we had even the slightest bit of evidence that so-called alien abductions exist then it _would_ be inappropriate to use the term self-claimed because the claims would then have been elevated beyond merely the person making them. But that isn't the case yet... > I don't think you'll find many usages of these terms -- or maybe even > any -- that aren't mocking or critical. I suppose you also have a problem with the term "so-called alien abductions?" Let's remember that we have no evidence that abductions occur, no evidence that aliens exist and no evidence that aliens are doing the abductions. We're jumping the gun making the assumption that aliens are doing the abductions (if they are really happenning). > I asked if anyone would speak about a "self-claimed rape victim," and > John replied: > > or a rape victim I would use the term "self-claimed" during the > > initial reporting of the alleged event only because at that time it > > is a self-claimed (and alleged) event. (An exception of course > > would be such an event that was independently witnesses in which > > case it would be an "alleged" event and there would be no need to > > refer to it as self-claimed.) > But this, I think, is exactly what is <not> done. Take the Mike Tyson > rape case. Imagine a newspaper story in which his accuser was referred > to as "the self-claimed rape victim." There's hardly a reader alive > who wouldn't catch the implication that the charges were false. So > instead, newspapers use neutral words like "accuser," which simply > state the facts. In the two examples above you've based them on the legendary attention to detail and accuracy of American journalism - I suggest that as unbiased researchers we can achieve a somewhat higher level of attention to detail and accuracy....<GRIN> > Another example. An Englishman named Declan McManus made quite a > reputation in the pop world for records he made under the name Elvis > Costello. In fact, to most of the world he simply <is> Elvis Costello. > So now let's say I come along and I start writing about "the > self-claimed Elvis Costello." There isn't a soul in the rock and roll > world who wouldn't know I despised him. (I don't, by the way...) > Cut now to Michael Jackson. A few years ago, he signed a deal with > MTV. He'd do something for them (forgot what), and in return they'd > refer to him, even in their news broadcasts, as the "king of pop." > Incredibly, the phrase caught on, and Jackson was called that > everywhere. That must have been his greatest publicity coup ever. If > I'd written about him after that, I'd have been tempted to call him > "the self-claimed king of pop," meaning it as a dig, and feeling > justified in sniping at him that way, because the phrase was > originally used deceptively. Make that four examples, one of which has fraudulent undertones, revolving around the above-reproach work product of American media...<grin> > (If I kept it up long enough, I'd be cut off Sony Music's press list, > and my editor would get a nasty letter demanding an apology. You think > ufology is nasty?) Ufology is nasty, but not all that nasty. What ufology is is SLACK. Partly because many people in ufology don't know how to be other than slack, they have little or no professional education and/or training. Partly because many people in ufology can't separate their personal beliefs and wishful thinking from the hard cold facts. The hard cold facts are that we have no evidence that abductions occur, that aliens exist and are here, and no evidence that aliens abduct people. With _no_ supportive hard evidence we have people claiming that aliens abduct people therefore it is perfectly accurate to refer to those claims as self-made and the events as self-claimed. And since we have a compound claim, 'aliens' and 'abduction,' it is also perfectly accurate to denote such a claim as 'so-called' because the two constituent elements, when used in combination, are unsupported by hard facts. There isn't anything mocking or disrespectful about using accurate terminology and anyone who senses those or similar emotions, without having actually read the words, should be looking in the mirror for the source of their sensations... Let's summarize Greg. First you tried using the mass of accumulated anecdotal evidence, the majority of which has been collected by only a handful of people using questionable tools and methods, to combat what you feel is mocking and critical terminology. Then you made the direct accusation that it was mocking and critical. Now you seem to prefer to have us use the standards of American journalism as the basis for our terminology selection. I _know_ there are some abductees out there who think that terms like "so-called" and "self-claimed" are mocking. But I also know that the other 99.9999% of the population (a few of whom are intelligent, educated critical thinkers <grin>) would prefer to be given data and information that is as unbiased and accurate as possible - so they can make up their minds, in their own time and in their own way without being led at all. I think it is mocking and critical of intelligent people to be constantly bombarding them with emotinally loaded inaccurate 9th grade reading level propoganda such as "alien abductions" that have not been proven to be either. Lastly, let's not forget that such discussions do nothing to advance abduction research. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 14:01:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:36:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance > From: James Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance > John Powell wrote in an answer to Theresa about the AA film; > It ain't gonna happen that way. Many people have stated that this is > simply the only way to go, and that may be the reason why Mr Mantle > has 'buggered off' to put it bluntly. Take any other 'shattering' > event from the mid-eighties, and what do you find? > Proof that's attacked as 'slanted', people coming down on sides and > conspiracy buffs connecting even more dots in an effort to get things > to look the way they want. > Look at Dr Wolf at the moment, or Dulce, or even MJ-12. Not good examples if you're discussing proof. > Consider the fact that one of the first things I heard about Kodak is > that they wouldn't verify this because of their military connections. > Bull. Kodak will test the film stock. They have _always_ been willing to test the film stock. > They wouldn't verify this because of the loss of their credibility, so > we have the inestimable 'Italian connection' give some fairly > meaningless reports on the film/copy/cutting room floor snippets. At _no_ time, including now, has Kodak _not_ been willing to test the film stock with relevant image on it. > Lets push for a couple of independent labs to look at this, > arbitaryily chosen at random from a list. Because _only_ Kodak can conclusively verify Kodak film. Anything else would be something less. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Web site updates From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:00:20 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:38:10 -0500 Subject: Web site updates From: National UFO Reporting Center <ufocntr@nwlink.com> The following information has been newly posted on our web site at http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr : - June 1996 Sighting Reports - Details on Australian UFO Activity in November 1996 - Case retrospectives by Bob Gribble, founder of the hotline - Summary Map of all Sightings from 1/95 - 6/96 - Information on the National UFO Reporting Center Video - UFO Sighting Report Form We are working hard to bring our report listings up to date for the remainder of 1996. Please keep checking our site for regular updates. David Stepien Webmaster, National UFO Reporting Center
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Archival Research From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Sun, 15 Dec 96 16:08:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:39:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Archival Research For Jan Aldrich: Glad to hear things are loosening up at Maxwell. The people were always cooperative, but back then copying facilities were very poor. I sent out many requests re Pinball.. Got a few useful ones back.Will try to dig them out. Most never heard of it. I must say things are getting better. The Ike and Truman Libraries now have copy machines so one can do one's own right there. It used to be that one made out a copy request sheet, put it in the box, waited weeks to get the copies and paid .35 each... Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Code of Ethics From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:45:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:33:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of Ethics > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > There's one thing John Powell wrote that I want to treat separately > from the rest, to make sure my reply isn't buried at the bottom of a > lengthy post: > > I _do_ think that abductionology is mostly a 'game' and that's why > > the abductionists steadfastly refuse to take abduction research > > another step forward. They know that they can periodically make a > > buck by cranking out another batch of stories. They also know (my > > opinion) that electronic monitoring would likely (my opinion) reveal > > that _nothing_ objectively physical has happenned to these people. > > They also know (my opinion) that independent research on anomalous > > physical markings would likely (my opinion) reveal that the bulk of > > them are not at all anomalous. A few brave souls have submitted > > foreign bodies (the _correct_ terminology) allegedly removed from > > self-claimed abductees for analysis and they have _ALL_ turned out > > to be perfectly ordinary (which I think explains why the current > > crop of foreign bodies _is not_ being analyzed). > > In short, if these abductionists do nothing they may continue to > > profit but if they attempt to take abduction research forward they > > run the very serious risk of underecutting their previous work and > > credibility. > And also: > > The danger we risk of doing things the _right_ way is that people > > like Hopkins (et. al.) would eventually be forgotten and their lurid > > stories would be of value only to comic book publishers. But since > > many in ufology would sorely miss their periodic abduction serials, > > and since many are 'scientific' <grin> they wouldn't dare satisfy > > that desire with comic books, so another risk is that they would be > > deprived of the abduction lore that has polluted ufology in recent > > years. > John is not only saying that abduction researchers -- the ones who > believe in the reality of abductions -- are wrong. He's saying that > they're dishonest, that they know their work can't be scientifically > validated, and that they don't want scientific tests to be done > because that would stop them from making money. Hold it a second. I don't _know_ they're "wrong" I just know they're not (yet) 'right.' > John, since you believe in objective evidence, please show me the > evidence that abduction researchers are making money from their work. > John Mack might be, and Whitley Strieber got a huge advance for > Communion, because he was already a best-selling writer. True on both counts. I'm not in a position to prove with objective evidence that they are or aren't making money. But I will gladly analyze their financial situations soon as Hopkins turns over to me his tax returns for the last 10 years <GRIN>. > But I doubt that Budd Hopkins, Dave Jacobs, or Eddie Bullard are > making money, to name three whose careers I know something about. Hopkins doesn't get paid for those books he has written??? That's a new one...<grin> Jacobs didn't make any money from his books??? > Very few > people who publish books get advances large enough to pay for the time > it takes to write one. UFO books are no exception. To judge from the > figures that have been quoted to me, Hopkins and Jacobs essentially > take a loss every time they publish. You might imagine that the TV > movie of Intruders made a bundle for Budd, but I'm not so sure. I > recently had my own brush with TV, and discovered -- to my amazement > -- that the money going to writers is several orders of magnitude > lower than outsiders might expect. (Unless you're writing prime-time > network sitcoms, of course.) That's absolutely ridiculous Greg. Hopkins and Jacobs LOSE money when they write a book!!! Not a chance...<grin> > Last time I heard anything about him, Bullard was still working as a > "gofer" (his term) in the Indiana University library. His > concentration on UFOs is not likely to help him land an academic job > in his field. I don't consider Bullard to be in the same crowd as Hopkins, Boylan, etc. > Jacobs told me that he may never get promoted to full professor > because his specialty, in practice, is UFOs. He's published very > little as an academic historian. I would think that the latter statement is more likely the reason for his not becoming a full professor...<grin> > Above all, though, I want to say this. John, you talk about "lurid," > "comic-book" abduction tales. But look at the language you use..."make > a buck," "cranking out," "lurid stories," "abduction serials," > "abduction lore," "polluted ufology." Not to mention the accusations > you make. > I'd be hard-pressed to find anything comparable in any abduction > "comic book" by Hopkins, Jacobs, or Bullard, or for that matter by > Raymond Fowler or even John Mack. I suggest you re-read Fowler's books, especially the early series on Andreasson. This is only opinion of course but I found Mack's book to be the most comicbook-like of them all. > You or anyone else may believe that their > conclusions are wrong, childish, or even dangerous, but they write > with dignity, and don't engage in ad hominem attacks. Their 'conclusions' are even wrong. That they write with dignity (whatever exactly you mean by that) is irrelevant. They would not have been published had they not tried to make their stories sound good. > One thing that pollutes ufology is fighting among ufologists. We see > it here on Errol's list...Kevin Randle vs. Stan Friedman, Ed Stewart > vs. Stan Friedman, Graham Birdsall vs. Philip Mantle. Frankly, it > makes me a little sick. After a while, the question of who's right > starts to seem less important than the persistence -- and tone -- of > the fights. Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?" > If you want to criticize abduction research, go right ahead. Actually I don't want to criticise abduction research. (But there really hasn't been any so I couldn't if I wanted to.) What I really want to do is _real_ abduction research. > But I think all of us (me included) would be better off if we > conducted our debates with consistent respect. Greg, I think you'll find that my level of respect for Hopkins and his work to date has been extremely consistent. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:24:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:32:36 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > The debate John Powell and I are having should really be conducted in > public, with a very sharp moderator. The moderator could force out > some of the assumptions both he and I make, and focus the discussion. Excellent idea. > John wrote, > > I find it convenient to point the > > finger at the hypnotist especially when there exists different > > themes of concurrance (Boylan, Sprinkle, etc., believe in benevolent > > aliens and that is reflected in their subjects; Hopkins, Jacobs, > > etc., believe in malevolent aliens and that is reflected in their > > subjects). > John, what's the evidence that this is actually true? Have studies > been done? I don't know if an actual study has been done or not, I _think_ I remember mention of this in one or two articles. My _opinion_, which is a better way to describe my statement, is simply based on reading about a hundred abduction/contactee books from all of those folks over the years. > I don't know about abductees that Boylan and Sprinkle work with, but > the abductees I've met who work with Budd seem to split 50/50 on the > aliens' intentions. Plenty of his people take a Sprinkle-esque New Age > view. I think, John, that you're perpetuating a myth. I don't recall any Sprinkle-esque New-Agey Space Brother books from Hopkins or Jacobs... So, who is perpteuating the myth??? <grin> Until its referenced let's just call it my _opinion_ that there is a thematic concurrance among abductionologists. > We differ on whether Elvis sightings are as consistent as abduction > reports. I think not, after reading unopened mail about Elvis > sightings at the Weekly World News, and unopened mail about abductions > at Budd Hopkins's house. (How do you read unopenned mail???) We can agree to disagree on that. > But John writes: > > How do [the Elvis sightings] vary? Elvis was seen with breasts? > > Elvis was seen as an Afroamerican or Hispanic. Elvis was seen with > > four arms and a tail? > > Sorry, Elvis is almost always 'seen' as Elvis, the 'basic' Elvis > > that we've all seen pictures of at one time or another and that is > > specifically the point I'm trying to make. > Elvis might still have black hair, in these letters, or he might have > let his hair go gray. He might have grown a beard, or be clean shaven. > He might have shaved off his sideburns, or still be wearing them. He > might have a mustache. He might limp, due to an auto accident. He > might be preparing a musical comeback, or have given up music forever. > He might be living in Atlanta, or Detroit, or California, or be > drifting. He might have no money, or might be living off funds he > deposited in a Swiss bank account. He might be married again, or he > might be single. He might be fat or thin. Do you see these differences (as oppossed to having breasts, being Afroamerican or Hispanic, having four arms and a tail) as major or minor differences? I see tham as very minor differences. With alleged alien descriptions we have the entire color spectrum with a number of subtle variations of gray - Elvis is always Caucasian. With aliens we have have very short (two feet) to very tall (seven feet or more) - Elvis is always, within a few inches, appropriately Elvis-sized. Since Elvis at different times was both fat and thin is it a major difference that we see that variation or a minor difference? With alleged aliens we have an entire morphological shift from the nearly pure Insectoid-like description to the somewhat classic Grey to the dwarf or troll-like stubby creatures. By comparison I dare say Elvis sightings don't offer anything like _that_ in their range of morphological differences. > Many people don't even offer details. They just swear they > saw him at the mall on Friday. "He's grown a beard, but I <know> it > was him." Perhaps they have not yet been hypnotized <GRIN>. > About Eddie Bullard's work, John writes: > > The observable fact that there appears to be a > > consistency in certain details _comes from_ merely a handful of > > abduction hypnotists and _that_ is where his work began. > Bullard also uses accounts from researchers who don't use hypnosis. > That has been one big point of his studies. > > I guarantee you that if he skipped the assumption that there is some > > consistency in detail and instead tried to find consistency in > > detail among contactee stories he would find it... > Are you sure he <assumed> there was consistency of detail? I thought > that was the result of his study, and I'd also understood his initial > assumption was that the tales could be dismissed as folklore. That was misleading wording on my part. There is an assumption among most folks I've talked to that there isn't a similar amount of consistency in contactee stories (as there is in abductee stories). Actually there is a similar amount of consistency. I don't know if Bullard made assumptions either way but I do remember reading that he was favoring a folklore-based solution at the outset. I don't find that surprising. > How can you guarantee what he'd find if he studied something else? Do > you have his expertise in folklore? And even if you do, he's not you. > He might come to conclusions of his own. I can pretty much guarantee that he'd find a significant level of consistency in contactee story elements. I have no idea if he would find consistent folkloric themes or not. I'm not aware of anybody doing that type of work with contactees and their stories. > About samples of alleged alien writing -- which I've seen, and which > are essentially identical -- John asks: > > Why aren't these alleged samples in the public domain where they can > > be independently analyzed? > Eventually they will be. For now, though, there's a kind of catch-22. > To publish them would contaminate any future witness who claims to > have seen the same writing. > But you're right. There's no reason for you to take them seriously > when you only have my word that they even exist, let alone that > they're significantly similar. > At this point in the discussion, however, I'd love it if a moderator > asked: "John, Greg agrees that these alleged writing samples haven't > been verified. Would you, in turn, concede that if they had been, and > were clearly all but identical, they might suggest that the abductees' > supposed experience was real?" Okay, let's pretend the Moderator just cleared his throat, tapped the microphone a time or two and asked me that very question. I try to avoid the style of debate where, because one person was swayed by the blazing light of a tightly phrased logical argument and conceded the point that I must therefore concede a point out of politeness...<grin> I already think something is happenning to abductees and I think its very, very important. I just don't think, because there's no such evidence, that's its aliens or that they were necessarily even abducted. If the handwriting, or just writing or characters or icons or whatever, was _firsthand_ I'd be a lot more inclined to want to study it. But it isn't firsthand. Its someone's representation of what they claim they saw, sometimes the claim is unaided recall and sometimes the claim is based on hypnosis. We don't know how often the claim is made in the presence of someone who already claims to have the baseline handwriting with which to make comparison. I think those are all serious issues that need to be addressed. (No, I'm not dodging your question <grin>.) A proper analysis would either eliminate or separate from the dataset all items recovered through hypnosis, all items referencing previously published examples. For each item in our accepted dataset an independent interview would have to be conducted and another ('fresh') sample from the claimant would be acquired. We compare the two samples (the fresh one from the claimant and the original one from the claimant) and statistically on a character by character basis we'd expect equal or better than 80% similarity to advance that example further in our dataset. The work done above should be as 'blind' as possible. The people acquiring the 'fresh' handwriting example should not have seen anybody's previous examples, the person holding the references samples should not yet see the 'fresh' samples, etc. Ok, _NOW_, we have a dataset that is workable. I arbitrarily picked 80% character by character statistical concurrance to ensure that we have a fairly 'stationary' target. For the actual analysis maybe you like 75%, maybe 95% concurrance. I'm not sure it matters all that much. If we had a pretty 'blind' study up to this point then anything over about 65% would tweak my interest substantially. I'm assuming that at least _two_ independent symbology analyses would be performed _each_ with 65% or better. Of course, I don't know what kind of symbology we're talking about here. It could be letter and/or number-like, could be iconic or figurine-like, could be predominantly linear or predominantly swirled. Could be any combination of them and other stuff... Is the symbology in any way similar to known human-based symbology? So, to answer your question, if a _reliable_ study was performed and we got better than 65% concurrance I'd willingly state that these people have very likely been exposed to the same original source input. By the way, such 'evidence' would be the _first_ such evidence ever acquired in abduction research. It certainly wouldn't prove that aliens are abducting people but it would elevate the debate significantly. Since we would have done this research on the dataset that we restricted out the hypnosis subjects, since we had multiple independent persons unfamiliar with the original sample acquiring the 'fresh' sample, I think we could make a few additional statements. We could state that telepathy (if it exists) or confabulation didn't contaminate the 'fresh' sample. We could state that (but this would be subject to the specific symbology involved) that lying/hoaxing was extremely unlikely. Did I answer the question? > Because, in the end, that's all this dispute is really about. I know > very well that the reality of abductions hasn't been proved. I don't know what real purpose is served if one or the other of us moves the other an inch in any direction when we have _miles_ to go in terms of doing real research. I don't mean that in a negative way, I just mean that it is irrelevant that someone thinks so-called alien abductions are likely or unlikely. > But these items, along with the writing (which I've seen, John, so, > speaking purely for myself, I don't need it to appear in public view), > are extremely suggestive. Should they prove to be true, they create, > at least in my opinion, a reasonable presumption that abductions are > genuine, or at least that something very weird is going on. That's all > I've been saying, and I can't for the life of me see why it's > problematic. I hope I've shown above two important points. The first is that verifying this alleged handwriting doesn't prove the existence of aliens or the reality of alleged abductions - it doesn't _prove_ "that abductions are genuine." It would clearly erase the line between 'something' going on versus 'nothing' going on, it would all but erase the line between alleged abductions being a presently understood psychological condition and abductions being something that _cannot_ presently be defined. And it would _require_ some serious study. I think all of that is fine, especially in light of the fact that the scientific community has really (today) no compelling reason to be interested in abductions. Having a compelling reason to be interested in abductions would be wonderful. (An exception to that of course is the MHP community which has very good reason to be interested.) The second not entirely obvious point is that the verification method I _very briefly_ described above is nothing magical or massively technical. Hopkins (or whomever) could have done it or had it done 10 years ago? What's taking him so long??? > What I don't want in response -- and what I trust the moderator > wouldn't allow -- is more heat about how these things haven't been > proved. I know they haven't. In a nutshell [pun intended] you and I have been debating hot air, or exactly how hot the hot air is. You obviously sense the futility of that <grin>. Well, why not let's start trying to establish some good data??? If we want people to be moved toward so-called alien abductions as possible or even likely then why not start doing the work to get that done? (Of what value is it to 'move' them merely by preaching to them?) Why hasn't Hopkins (or whomever) had this symbology analyzed, why haven't 'they' had the physical markings analyzed, why haven't 'they' implemented electronic monitoring???? These are all things that 'we' can't do ourselves. I don't have access to the symbology or the people, I don't have access to the physical markings or the people... Perhaps in your next message you will have discussed these questions with Hopkins and have some answers and suggestions? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Government Disinformation and Political Action From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:16:20 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:39:56 -0500 Subject: Government Disinformation and Political Action Taken from http://www.sisma.com/stargate/archives =20 =20 Government Disinformation and Political Action =20 =20 I have encouraged the editor to include the following comments and observations from Tim Good=92s book Alien Update (Random House, 1993) because I think they strike at the very heart of the current problem. I think the current American political dilemma is indeed in crisis, and the solution to the governmental cover-up of UFO/ET phenomena will be in the halls of our constitutional democracy, properly exercised by our duly elected representatives. Congress and the people must reclaim this matter as it impacts the future of our people, our country, and the human race. We the people must decide our own future, and it must be done in the open and in the light of day. The time has come for the American people to actively participate in what is, without a doubt, the most important issue in our history.=97Robert O. Dean =20 =20 On government disinformation: =93To reiterate, our task is not to gather enough evidence to prove off-world contact, but to end the denial of the evidence that is already readily available. Proof comes from evidence, and the evidence is all round us=97truckloads, boxcarloads and mountains of it. There is the UFO data collected since the late 1940s, including the unknown quantities known to exist in secret government files and warehouses; the historical and archaeological records dating back to prehistoric times; the common experience of mankind recorded in ancient religious scriptures; and what science has taught us about life in a matter of putting two and two together. The problem is, as in George Orwell=92s 1984, that we are labouring under a manipulative government policy designed to make two plus two equal five! =20 =20 =93In public reports like the Air Force=92s =91Blue Book=92 and the= Condon Report, the US Government says UFOs are no big deal, they are no threat to national security=97just forget it. In secret, however, they are very concerned, as revealed by documents released under the Freedom of Information Act and recent books like New York Times investigative reporter Howard Blum=92s Out There. Blum exposes a covert =91UFO action group=92 in the Pentagon, and a cabal of Air Force intelligence spooks who recruited famed UFO writer William Moore to monitor the effects of hair-raising disinformation fed to a midwest UFO researcher [Paul Bennewitz] who was getting too close to secret doings at an air base. The bogus stories nearly drove the poor researcher mad.=94 =20 =20 On political action: =93This is not a problem that can be solved by further collections of UFO sightings. The denial syndrome began with a political decision; only through politics can it be brought to an end. UFO investigators should become political activists, because only a good, old-fashioned political campaign will end the government=92s policy of UFO secrecy. They could, for example, form =91truth squads=92= to follow the president around and to ask such embarrassing questions as, =91what do you know about secret UFO files, Mr President?=92 and =91Why= the cover-up?=92 That=92s the way to get on the evening news! =20 =20 =93Abductees should do what other aggrieved groups have done with great success: form a lobbying group. Imagine bus-loads of abductees descending on Capital Hill to lobby for an investigation of the alien abduction syndrome and an end to UFO secrecy. The fact that they are a relatively small group of victims should not deter them. The highly successful =91Mothers Against Drunk Driving=92 (MADD) began with only one determined lady.=94 _________________________________________________________________ =20 =20 Timothy Good is also the author of Above Top Secret (William Morrow, 1988) and Alien Contact (William Morrow, 1991). =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:47:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:35:27 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > John Powell writes, > >You being a human being isn't a problem <grin>. > Generous of you. I'm a very generous kind of guy. > >simply by the force of your emotional presentation. > I guess you read into it what you wish. Perhaps, or what the writer wished. I don't care for the convenient approach that absolves the writer of all burden. > >long before EBK and this List and you ever happenned - I collected > >that kind of evidence quite a long time ago. > I'm on my knees in an Islamic bow John. It really isn't necessary John, but I do appreciate it very much. Yet, you still missed the point. The point is that _I_ convinced _myself_ that things are going on that I want to know more about a long time ago. I'm not interested in convincing myself further, I've done that already. I also know that many other people have taken a very similar path and some have convinced themselves and some haven't. The problem is that some haven't. Why? Because the data is mostly _self-referencing_. Its relatively easy to convince oneself, its impossible to objectively convince another. I'm interested in _objective_ data. That was the point that you (again) missed. > >Are you so important and central to the abduction phenomenon that you > >have to be a personal part of the research and evidence? > Duh, I would think that "abductees" [are] central to "abduction" > research. Again, you choose to bait and insult rather than discuss. I > could just as easily ask (you) the same question! I have no personal stories to tell so, _no_, I'm not a part of the evidence at all. Don't you find it curious or possibly suggestive that you keep turning things back on me (or Dennis or whomever), as if you think things are being directed at you personally, when in fact my point is to try to turn things away from specific involvement with _any_ specific people? My point was to attempt to separate the data (the story, etc.) from the person - to find/create _objective_ evidence. Duh, John, you are _not_ central to abduction research. No, that's not baiting nor is it insulting. You may very well be a victim of this phenomenon, you may even be a victim of abduction research to date; but, no, you are not central to the research. _Objective_ research that is. Which is more important to unbiased objective research - the person or the data they provide? If the person and the data they provide cannot be separated then they do not provide objective data - that data is _subjective_, not objective.. If they can be separated then it becomes the objective data that is relevant. Objective data is data that stands _all by itself_. (Like the example of the box of data in a parking lot that you didn't get.) Objective data is data that is not connected to or related to _anybody_. That's why you, the human being, are _not_ central to abduction research. The data you (may or may not) provide _is_ central to abduction research _only_ if it can be fully and permanently separated from you. Do you really not understand this? > >You don't _know_, you have a set of personal experiences that > >are completely real to you. > Yes! (?) Why the question mark <grin>. I'm not trying to question the validity of your alleged personal experiences, there would be no point to doing that because I have no _objective_ way to do that. I also have no reason to think they aren't completely real (to you). However, getting back to _objective_ (impersnal, unprejudiced, unbiased) research you also have the same problemm as I - no way to _objectively_ know if the experiences are real. > >You seem preoccupied with a quest to cause people to consider it > >possible that you were abducted by aliens. > Misinterpretation. Or maybe just the _only_ interpretation that you > are capable of where (I'm) concerned. Perhaps I misinterpreted, then what is your preoccupation with so-called abduction research, the _objective_ kind that is? My interpretation is that you mostly don't know how to do objective research. We had numerous private discussions regarding possibly doing some verification of alleged abductee physical markings and throughout those discussins it was clear to me that you didn't understand how to do objective research, didn't want to take the steps necessary, didn't want to take the time necessary. Now, not knowing how to do objective research isn't exactly a big problem because ordinary folks don't just wake up one morning automatically knowing how to do that. You obviously seem capable of learning how to do objective research, so I ask myself, "Self, John seems to not know how to do objective research yet he's perfectly capable of learning how. So, why isn't he learning how and why isn't he doing it?" And I answer myself, "Self, objective research takes too long, its too hard, and people who are emotionally and personally involved in the work want answers immediately, they want answers for _themselves_, not objective answers that stand apart from themselves." That's my interpretation. And you are by _far_ not the first such person, not even the first _thousandth_ such person, to be in similar conflict because of a personal and emotional involvement with the work that you'd like to do. If you _didn't_ have that conflict you'd in fact be quite rare. > >No, I don't call it support and I hope you're not here seeking or > >hoping for any theraputic assistance as this is the wrong group of > >people and the wrong venue for such. > I'm not,... and says you. Are you sticking your tongue out at me!? Errol! He's sticking his tongue out at me! > > Perhaps you aren't capable of being impartial or impersonal or > > objective > R U ? Yep. > >I know its difficult to be impartial, impersonal and objective but > >you could at least try to fake it for the benefit of others here. > >Maybe you could just pretend you understand. > Pure arrogance and condescension. Maybe you misinterpreted? Maybe you could _try_ to be objective, and after a while, with some effort and practice, it might come naturally to you. > >Instead, we have (yet again) your assumption-based out-of-control > >emotional tantrums that only serve to embarass you. > I like the "we" touch. It's cute. And safe! > What's the use in talking John? It'd be a [complete] waste of time. > Trying to talk to you is like throwing crap into a fan. It just ALWAYS > seems to get messy. Good luck in your efforts. I don't expect to have good luck in my efforts, but thanks for the sentiment. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Films at DVIC: An Untapped Resource From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 16:26:39 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:43:34 -0500 Subject: Films at DVIC: An Untapped Resource Note: Mr. Ravnitzky, a Law Student well experienced in FOIA requests forwarded a series of messages of interest for those doing rigorous historical research in UFO amd related matters (as well as others). The messages will be sent during the next days. Keep these messages on file. I personally want to thank him for this invaluable information. From: Michael Ravnitzky <MikeRav@ix.netcom.com> TONS OF MILITARY FILMS ON EXOTIC AIRCRAFT, UFO-TOPICS AND OTHER ANOMALIES YOU MAY BE INTERESTED IN. SIMPLY CONTACT: Defense Visual Information Center ATTN: Freedom of Information Act Officer 1363 Z Street Center March Air Force Base, CA 92518-2727 with a letter requesting all records pertaining to the subject area(s) you are interested in. DVIC has millions of films and motion media, all catalogued, some of it classified. But you can always request that the classified records be reviewed for declassification. Mike Ravnitzky MikeRav@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:50:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:41:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance > > There is nothing in the footage to show that the military or any > > government agency was involved. > > Did you forget about the scene showing a guy in military uniform on the > other side of the 'window?' Which footage did you watch? <g> Nothing I have seen shows this. The only hint of a uniform (if you want to call it that) is in the debris footage. Sweat stained armpits, shirt, tie, belt... that's about it. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 01:34:10 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:28:08 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 96 18:28:15 -0400 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Ed Stewart: get off my back. Tangible evidence indeed.. You want a > T shirt or ashtray issued by MJ-12? No, thank you. > A video of a meeting of the Operation Majestic 12 reunion committee?? No, thank you. > Perhaps you would really like an alien body, six pieces of saucer wreckage and a Zeta Reticulan license plate? No, thank you. > Evidence covers far more > than Tangible.. Eye witness testimony, for example, is considered evidence. If you have any evidence that establishes multiple, independent, direct, link-by-link, verified chains of evidence to show that MJ-12 is real, or that establishes the genesis/provenance of the MJ-12 documents, that I would like to see. > I have noted a great deal of evidence of things not known at that > time by any outsiders but turning out to be true for example.. but why bother. I have responded to the above proclamation before and shown your claim to be false. Not only to your reference that only insiders could have known, but also I have demonstrated that "outsiders" did in fact know before the arrival 1984 date of the film to Shandera. Perhaps you don't recall, or was busy with other matters and never saw my posting of August 11, 1996 repudiating your false claim of "only insiders could have known." Also, there are many new members to this list that were not here in August and have not seen the response to your false claim. Here is the relevant portion of that posting: --- For one thing the more than 30 pieces of information that turn out to be true are simply not relevant to either providing direct link evidence to the claim that MJ-12 is real, or to establish the genesis/provenance of the documents. But since I brought these issues up in a prior missive and asked if there was anything in your new book that established the genesis/provenance of the book or provided direct link evidence to the central claim that MJ-12 is real without getting a response, lets move into some of these alleged details that you claim "...were not known before the documents were received." Let's take a closer look at this. Canadian Wilbur Smith's memo was known to Ufologists since the late 70s that linked him to Vannevar Bush. Friedman himself received a copy of this memo in the late 70s from researcher Scott Foster. This memo created a strong interest in Bush. Many researchers followed up and tried to find out as much as they could about Bush. This interest/research could have uncovered many of Bush's relationships before the arrival of the MJ-12 film to Shandera, including the Bush-Menzel "connection". Friedman himself in IUR, Vol. 13, No.1, Jan/Feb 1988 "The Secret Life of Donald H. Menzel" stated: "In checking my files on Vannevar Bush after hearing of the ************************************* briefing document from Shandera and Bill Moore I found a letter to Bush from Robert Proctor..." The Proctor letter establishes the Bush-Menzel connection as well as the Menzel loyalty hearings. If Friedman already had this information in his files before hearing of the MJ-12 film, so could have other researchers interested in Vannevar Bush, as also other researchers that had co-researched with Friedman in a generous exchange of research material gathered. And one of them may well have followed up on the Bush/Menzel lead also. Also, an FOIA from researcher Robert Todd to the FBI requesting Menzel's FBI file shows that anyone requesting Menzel's FBI file would have received information establishing Menzel as a NSA consultant as well as confirmation of the loyalty hearings already established with the Proctor letter. Also, the FOIA FBI file received by Robert Todd showed that Menzel himself requested his own file shortly before he died in 1976, but died before receiving it with the FBI sending it to his wife instead. That means that his wife did know about her husband's NSA involvement as well as the loyalty hearings since the FBI files contained that information and more. Also, many researchers knew that FOIA requests to the FBI were producing some results. As an instance, Moore, himself in his own catalogs and newsletters advertised for sale FOIA FBI files on numerous UFO personalities that he himself secured from the FBI through the FOIA. This establishes that researchers were familiar with the process and that data was available on UFO personalities from the FBI, or for that matter from Moore also. If Moore wasn't selling a particular UFO personality's FBI file at the time, an FOIA to the FBI would have resulted in a reply. Menzel's was available through the FBI. As for all the "revelations" regarding Twinning. Twinning was already a focus of research in ufology before 1984. Friedman himself stated on page 92 of "Top Secret/Majic": "As Bill [Moore] read the memo to me over the phone, I was immediately reminded of a July 13, 1953 Cutler-Twining memo we had found in late 1981 at the Library of Congress ************************* Manuscript Division." And from page 101: "First, Twining's schedules were unclassified - theoretically, any private citizen could have requested them." So, not only was Twining a subject of research by UFO researchers before 1984, but his schedules were unclassified and easily accessible by anyone. On "special date" November 18, 1952 MJ-12 Eisenhower briefing. "General Twinning was definitely at one of the Pentagon briefings with Eisenhower." page 234. Since Twinning's schedules were unclassified and easily accessible and since he had been a major focus of UFO research well before 1984, as established by the example offered of Moore/Friedman 1981 archival research of Twinning, any date associated with Twinning could well have been secured before the arrival of the MJ-12 film and known to any researcher that was interested in Twinning. The same holds true for the Sept 18 and Sept 19 dates associated with Twinning claimed by Friedman as "insider" only information, but not necessarily so. On "special date" Sept 24, 1947, date of Truman-Forrestal memo. Since this date relates also to Bush, who was a major focus of research due to the 70s Wilbur B. Smith memo, anyone researching Wilbur Smith/Bush connection during the first half of the 1980s could have come across this date where he met Truman. After all, according to Friedman the only date where Vannevar Bush did meet with Truman in the last months of 1947 was the special date used in the Truman-Forrestal memo. An outsider with the knowledge of this date may well have found it extremely attractive since it also included Forrestal, but Friedman claims only an insider could have known before 1984. Well, contrary to Stanton Friedman's claim, this date was already known to outsiders and not just insiders as Friedman claims. >From page 101 of the 1982 MUFON PROCEEDINGS, William L. Moore, "The Roswell Investigation: New Evidence In The Search For A Crashed UFO" writes: "On September 24, he [Bush] and the new secretary of Defense, James Forrestal, met with President Truman at the White House - a meeting which resulted in Dr. Bush's appointment as Chairman of the new Research and Development Board of the National Military Establishment." And hold and behold, every outsider at that 1982 MUFON Conference knew also of the "special date" that Friedman in 1996 claims could only have been known by "insiders" before 1984. I simply use the above examples to illustrate that Stanton T. Friedman's claim of "insider information only" in his new book and as re-stated in this mailing list is full of holes. The only real surprise that came to most outsiders was Menzel. Many Ufologists already had pencil connections to the alleged MJ-12 people, but not Menzel, so claims Friedman. Yet, by Friedman's own admission the Bush-Menzel friendship and loyalty hearing connection was already in his files before the arrival of the Shandera film. If it was in his files, it may well also have been in any of his associates' files and their associates' files. Since there was a strong interest in Wilbur Smith, anyone researching Bush could have stumbled across Menzel, or simply have used the more direct approach and filed an FOIA with the FBI, something that was being done by many "outsiders". As I hope I have illustrated above, the "insider information not known to UFO researchers" arguments are baseless in fact. To see how an "outsider" could have arrived at a working script of MJ-12, let's take a look at Bedell Smith. On "special date" Aug 1, 1950, date of Walter Bedell Smith's naming to MJ-12. If one was considering Bedell Smith for a role with MJ-12 based on his future appointment to the CIA effective Oct 7, 1950, one just needed to check and see what dates Bedell/Truman had met together retroactively from Oct 7, 1950 and analyze the options. I certainly would not have picked a date he did not "meet" with Truman. According to Friedman, the only date in the first 10 months of 1950 that he met with Truman was the Aug 1, 1950 alleged date of his MJ12 appointment. This date would of have to been the only date, the only choice, for either an "insider" as Friedman claims, or an "outsider" which Friedman claims could not have known. Friedman's logic in presenting his list of only "insider" information possible is fallacious. The argument is claiming a negative. "no outsider" could have known. I have shown that "outsiders" could have known and in fact are on record as knowing and being in possession of much of the critical data regarding Menzel, Twinning and Bush years before the MJ-12 film arrived at Shandera's mail box, including the entire 1982 MUFON CONFERENCE "insider information special date of Sep 24, 1947", courtesy of Bill Moore of the 1984-1987 Moore-Shandera-Friedman dream team. Let me repeat my original question. Is there anything in the new book that establishes multiple, independent, direct, link-by-link, verified chains of evidence to show that MJ-12 is real, or that establishes the genesis/provenance of the MJ-12 documents? Ed Stewart ----- > Believe what you want.. my mission in life is NOT to try to convince the Ed > Stewarts of the world.. Whenever you have evidence other than proclamations to support your belief systems, I am sure Ufology would be very grateful. I know I would be. > You have perhaps forgotten your adamant insistence that all TS documents > had to have TS control numbers.. I haven't forgotten at all. At the time I responded to your specific request: "I just wish Ed would put some data on the table... like documented protocols about TS documents requiring control numbers." Stan Friedman circa 8/11/1996 And I hope that anyone that was following that thread remembers the evidence I presented to support my position. Facts don't disappear because you make a proclamation. They are still there. > despite having copies of a number that didn't in your hands?? Forget it. STF If I recall, you were the one claiming to have copies in your hands. I never claimed to have copies of TS documents in my hands that didn't have TS control numbers. My position was clear from the beginning: A lack of a TS control number in a Top Secret document controlled by the Department of Defense was indication of a hoax document, or at minimum a security breach. You demanded that I lay on the table the evidence to support my position that TS control numbers were a requirement. I did. And if need be, I can repost that entire thread to this list. But to summarize the evidence that I posted which can be independently verified by anyone, this is what the evidence supported: * Control Numbers are required markings on TOP SECRET DOCUMENTS. * Control Numbers are required markings on TOP SECRET Special Access Program (SAP) documents, TOP SECRET Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) documents, and TOP SECRET COMSEC documents. * Not only are all TOP SECRET documents tightly controlled, but they are also sytematically inventoried and validated for completeness every 10 months. * One of the items requiring re-verification every year is that all TOP SECRET documents have a serialized control number marking on the document and reconciled with the TOP SECRET control registry. My concluding paragraph was: An alleged TOP SECRET document or manual created in the 40s/50s would have been systematecally inventoried and validated for completeness well over forty/fifty times since then. The fact that none of the alleged MJ-12 documents have serialized control numbers strongly suggests that they were never brought under proper control as required by regulations and directives under the authority of Presidential Executive Orders. This suggests that the alleged MJ-12 documents were never under the control of the President of the United States and the Executive Branch of the United States and are simply bogus. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Sun, 15 Dec 96 16:28:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:40:50 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Re Kevins comments: I am sorry I didn't put (grin) after my comment which was not an allegation about you and Ed and disinformation. I would be interested in knowing how you know that Ike knew all about what was in the attachments to the MJ-12 Briefing especially those dated 30 June 1952, 31 January 1948, 31 January 1949 and why you think he would have had perfect recall for them but needed national security briefings about other matters from Smith. As you know Berliner interviewed Brazel. He has stated that Brazel used the n word. Obviously you don't have a complete dossier on highly classified activities at Area 51, Groom Lake, S-4. I noted the size because it is not as if we were talking about a few square miles that one can go into and check.None of us know what all went on there then, or goes on there today.Re the 29 papers referred to by me as relating to Roswell and MJ-12 and not referenced by you. NONE were self published. I noted 3 other papers that are self published. The rest were published by somebody else like IUR etc. Book stores in general aren't publishers . They distribute materials published by others. I distribute materials published by others such as TOP SECRET/MAJIC and Crash at Corona. That doesn't make them self published. I said what I said not what you are interpreting me as saying. Need I add that cicumstantial evidence is the basis for most court convictions?? I will repeat I do not have and cannot get Code word documents about MJ-12 or UFOs or much of anything else. All the original MJ-12 guys are long since dead. None can be interviewed for TV. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Ambush Journalism I From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 14:32:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:37:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Ambush Journalism I > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > Subject: Ambush Journalism I > Here is a little something that came my way just before sweeps week. I > have included my answers. As this is America, the names have been > changed to protect the guilty. (Apparently around 1947 they also had > trouble with the literal minded. Many stories ended with, "That's a > joke, son!" As should this little introduction.) Thanks Jan for posting this. And as usual I would like to add my 2 cents! And I can since I was one of the folks who this so-called reporter/anchor contacted. He wrote to The International Roswell Initiative not once but twice -- becoming increasingly impatient because his first request had not been answered. Frankly, the story he gave about Plum Island was one that IRI had not heard before. Here's his original message (I really hate to remove this guy's name but I will!) along with the reply we sent him: Subj: Re: Re-sent - no reply: Roswell and Plum Island? Date: 11/04/96 To: name deleted to protect the guilty.... Dear Mr. x, In a message dated 96-11-03 10:54:05 EST, you write: > Some rumors have suggested that Plum Island is used for more than just the > study of contagious animal diseases. One rumor even says that the > government -- under the guise of the USDA -- uses the island as a storage > area and study center for the five or so alien bodies recovered from > Roswell. > > Have you heard anything like this? Are there any contacts in the > Connecticut area that you might suggest talking with? We have heard nothing about "bodies recovered from Roswell" being kept in Connecticut. We doubt that this is anything more than a rumor. You may wish to contact xxxx, who is published author in the field, who might be able to offer some assistance or xxxx who can reached via email at xxxxx. > Thanks you very much for your time. I hope this information is helpful and good luck with your report. If we can be of any further assistance, please let us know. [end of reply to this guy] So what you have been telling us Jan is that this reporter/anchor just made up the story about the alien bodies being stored at Plum Island and wanted to get a reaction from some people in the field so he could make them look silly. All in the name of ratings! This guy said to you: > > > While our story has the highest journalistic intentions, we certainly can > > > not ignore the public sentiment in the area around the facility. and you said: > > Correct me if I wrong, but isn't critical thinking part of "highest > > journalitic intentions." Good answer! > > > Our story airs next week, so the sooner you can reply, the > > > better. > > From what imput you have given me, my opinion is that you should kill the > > story until you can dig up additional facts on the facility. <grin> Bet this guy was mighty disappointed that he did not get what he was looking for. > > > I received your e-mail address from the --------------. > > I know your source they have helped me in the past. They are among > the more serious minded in the field. But obviously he didn't like the source! <g> Mainly because he said this in the next message: > > > Not knowing much about your writings, I simply considered the source of > > > your e-mail address ------------ folks. I found them during an internet > > > search. I incorrectly assumed you were part of that culture, and > > > therefore > > > I attempted to show sympathy for any theories you might have suported. IS THIS THE WAY JOURNALISM IS DONE? "That Culture" ?????!!!!!!!!! Thank you for sharing this Jan. And let it be a caution to others: Especially during the sweeps periods (Feb, May, Nov -I know there is one in the summer, but I don't know which month), local news reporters contact the local UFO people for all kinds of stories -- some do better jobs than others. But some like the illustration here will make stuff up just for ratings. The field of UFOlogy has more than enough problems and we certainly don't need to be ambushed by so-called reporters too! This guy says it all though in his last message to you: > > > I am not an investigative reporter, but a > > > storyteller. BEWARE. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:50:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:42:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Date: 12 Dec 96 22:50:49 EST From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance > To Rebecca: > Re: Cameraman interveiw tape. > Yes, it has been reported by Kiviat on the Leeza show that this interview > exists. Has he seen it yet?>>> > > Yes, he has seen it and a few other people have as well. (Besides Shell > and > Hesemann.) Could you list the people who have seen it? I would be interested in knowing that. > Yes those two did, and I got the impression that Hesemann saw the > unedited > version and Shell saw it after it had been edited. Kiviat saw it before > either > of them, and what he saw was an unedited version as well. > Kiviat would like to show it in a update show, as the 'cameraman' is > visible > and recognizable in it. But there are all kinds of legal problems if he does > so > without the 'cameraman's' permission. Well, he also said in the OMNI chat that he needed to pay Santilli some money too. I got the impression it was a lot of money. Kiviat also said his cameraman interview program isn't green-lighted yet. So, I think we might have a ways to go before we see it. I know the answers to questions that cameraman gave are confidential. Do we know what any of the questions were? > <<But McGovern could be an important verifier of facts. The offer Lt. Col. > McGovern extended was genuine. >> > > I have trouble with considering his offer to be genuine. Had he made it > to > Santilli rather than to Santilli's #1 nemesis, I might have thought he was > sincere. But there are other problems with McGovern's claims that might be > coming out soon as well. For now I will let that rest. My patience is > still > holding out. <g> And I know that it will come out eventually. Are you referring to Kent Jeffrey as Santilli's number one nemesis? That's a moniker Kent would appreciate I'm sure. But I think there are probably a lot of other people in line for that title. I would love to know what some of the problems with McGovern's claims are. Perhaps you can share those soon. What I have found curious is that not many "researchers"' have contacted McGovern for follow-up and/or verification. And we shouldn't forget there were two additional cameramen who were interviewed: Bill Gibson and Joe Longo. > <<What are the chances that we will ever see the alleged cameraman's face > and/or the face of his son? Would Santilli sell the interview for money > _without_ the cameraman's approval? How much money would it take? (I'm > planning on the winning the lottery soon <g>)>> > > If Santilli sells it without the cameramans approval, Kiviat can't use > it on > the air. At least not showing the cameraman's face. He would have to show > it > blacked out and he knows no one wants to see that, so he would be real > stupid to > buy it on those conditions. Well, perhaps that is not the cameraman's face. I would assume that son of cameraman could have gotten some filming tips from dear old dad. Perhaps the people who created the footage used make-up techniques to camoflauge the cameraman's face. Has anyone asked Mr. Santilli if the cameraman appears the same way as when he met him? > (Yes, I think you will see the 'cameraman's' face one way or another. > <g> > Provided you are even interested that is.) Oh, I definitely want to see that face. > I think the chances of getting the 'cameraman' are better than getting > film > tested right now. Mainly because steps have already been taken in that > direction. As far as I can tell, nothing has been done on the film dating. Well, Mr. Santilli has said that film was enroute for testing. I think he said that on one of the programs. That means to me that it was in the mail, the air or somewhere. But since that was over a year ago, I doubt that that was really what he meant. And I think that it was just another dodge to keep people at bay. Just as the Cameraman Interview, which can't be shown because it shows his face is another dodge. That's the way I see it anyway. > But Ray Santilli has surprised me a couple of times by doing things > that > seem out of character for someone that knew he was peddling a hoax. But I > haven't asked him for anything much other than information. So I can't > personally attest to him breaking promises or whatever. The things that he > told > me he was going to do, he did. Some of the questions that I asked him to > get > answers for from the cameraman, are still unanswered but I haven't pushed to > get > them either. So you discount the other inconsistencies in his story that James Easton has pointed out? You discount them just because he has treated you with respect? James has certainly treated Santilli with respect and has gotten a lot of contradictory statements -- as has Bob Shell. > Ray Santilli wasn't a difficult person to get to. He is now, <argggh> > but > he was pretty open for quite a while. He knows that I am skeptical of the > footage, I have always made that clear to him, but he also knows that I am > fair. No, he certainly was not difficult to contact. > I found information that is extremely relevant to this case and may be > somewhat relevant to the classic Roswell case as well. But it tends to be > in > favour of the footage. And I am hesitant to publish information that is > pro-footage, when I am not sosure that it is deserved. And also because I > haven't finished checking it all out. Could be a while yet, since I don't > have > all that much time to spend on it. (You know how I sat on the information > about > the opening frames for months before I finally posted about it in May. I > probably wouldn't have even posted it then, except I got tired of Shell and > Hesemann claiming that the film samples "were clearly from the autopsy room" > or > " were definitely attached to the autopsy footage". My patience did wear > thin > on that I guess.<g>) Why do you do that? If you are going to be objective you have to present evidence no matter what it says. If you have obscure information that might be relevant to proving or disproving the footage you should present it. You can't ignore facts because you don't agree with them. > Anyhow, the information I am looking into may not be necessary if the > man > claiming to be the cameraman is identified. How is that going to be done? Wanted posters? Take his image and age regress it back to what he looked like 50 years ago? How is he going to be identified? Is Mr. Santilli going to hand over some sort of documentation? Did Kiviat win the lottery and is going to buy the cameraman or what?????? <g> Enquiring minds want to know!!! > I have been told that it's because of me that the autopsy footage story > hasn't died and been forgotten yet, so I guess if I shut up, and no one > will > mention it again. <g> The autopsy footage will never die. No matter what you do. Even if the hoaxers (alleged) are found and paraded throughout the world. Even if they are convicted in a court of law (don't know on what grounds... but just go with me here <g>) there will ALWAYS be people who make excuses and say that it isn't true. Not everyone will be convinced. There is always the conspiracy angle that can be used.... Nope, Theresa, it is not because of you that there is still a story. It is because of Ray Santilli. > <<I saw Slim at the travel agent's earlier this evening.>> > > Slim Pickens?? <g> Lots of that here in Minnesota. ;-) Everything is looking pretty slim here in Texas too (except me! ) <g> > > Best wishes and Happy Holidays! Thanks and the same to you and your family. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Sun, 15 Dec 96 17:42:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:44:22 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 There seems to be no point in my spending time responding to the vindictive personal attacks from Ed Stewart.. The real Stan Friedman has been standing up in public for almost 30 years about UFOs. If Ed Stewart is bothered by that, so be it. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:33:28 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:46:56 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: rudiak@garnet.berkeley.edu > Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:31:00 -0800 (PST) > Reply-To: rudiak@garnet.berkeley.edu > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Dave Rudiak, It appeared that our posts were crossing in the mail and that we both appeared to be saying essentially the same thing, so I withheld acknowledging this post of yours for a couple of days to make sure everything I had posted had an opportunity to be read. Essentially, all I wish to add is that Tombaugh also conducted a limited search for Moon satellites in 1956. See Publications of the Astronomical Society of the Pacific, Vol. 69, October 1957, page 400, "Search For Small Satellites Of The Moon During The Total Lunar Eclipse Of November 18, 1956." Also, Tombaugh's work in his search of near-earth satellites is discussed in the University of Colorado report (The Condon report), pages 773-776. There are some insights into Tombaugh's work in those pages. Thank you for the references. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Wormwood? From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 14:49:16 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:46:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:17:25 -0600 > From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Wormwood? [snip] > > Dear Mr. Bell, > > I have listened to your program off and on for around two years now, > > whenever I get "down-time". I have some disturbing information and I fell > > that your program would be the perfect vehicle with which to distribute what > > I have. > > [snip] ... > > Around six months ago, I was working at a data terminal in a highly > > restricted area following a case that I had just completed, when I stumbled > > [much snipped] ... > > I found out about a week later through some old friends and contacts > > that a contract had been placed on my life. Two days later my mother and > > father were killed in a car crash in France. Three days after that, my > > brother and sister were killed when their single engine plane went down on > > the East coast of the U.S. ... > So, as to verifying the possible authenticity of this tale ... > Does anyone know of an FAA website (or other source) that would provide public > information on private plane crashes (as on the east coast) during the past > six months? Surely there can't have been many that many that involved a > brother and sister going down in a single engine plane. > There are a lot of vague statements in the above post; a few hard facts might > help a little (as they would anywhere else ufology!). > -Brian Cuthbertson > Brian, > Excellent suggestion - it's a pity some > subscribers here prefer to simply whine > about "a load of codswallop, what sad > individual's drean up this kind of crap"! > Perhaps Ed could look into this one, assuming > of course that he doesn't feel it's a waste > of time <G> > ebk Errol, Thank you for the assignment, but please observe proper security protocols using the current encryption analogs. I am presently involved in a most delicate situation requiring the utmost in diplomacy and expediency, codeword Operation SANTA. Since the Vatican lifted Saint Nick's sainthood status, suspicions have run rampant that Santa is not Santa. The Vatican has produced photograpic evidence that Santa uses a whip on reindeer that are currently being analyzed at our underground facilities known only to control. As such, it has been deduced that NORAD's clearance of Santa's trip itenerary is not authorized. Sources known only to control have leaked out that the Vatican has been pressuring our government to catch the RED FAT MAN once and for all. There is disagreement within certain elements of our government that the Vatican has been truthful with us in this matter, but control is insistant on appeasing the powerful influence of the Vatican. As such, control has determined that my intrusion into the Wormwood thread could create the appearance of a conflict of interest and create diplomatic difficulties for certain elements known only to control and Art Bell. As such, I must respectfully decline the assignment and contain my activity simply to monitor the thread for further developments. Please make sure that only control approved list members receive this reply. Thank you, Ed Stewart Encryption key: HOHOHO...HOHOHO --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:29:25 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:45:13 -0500 Subject: Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever John Velez in a 12/14 post wrote: >Stigmata BTW is a >"temporary" manifestation, the episodes pass and the (what do you call >them?) stigmatee returns to normal with little or no evidence of the cuts. >(I've only heard of one case where the individual retained scars after the >experience. A young girl from Italy, sorry, don't remember her name or just >where I read it. Actually, the most famous stigmatist of the 20th century was almost certainly Father Pio, and he bore the stigmata for decades. Bruce W. kibbitzing
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:53:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:48:42 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' Jorgen wrote: > Hi Greg. > There's one thing that struck me as I read your post: > Do you mean to use a "imitating-image" (I didn't say fake) of an alien > and show it to abductees to see if they have seen the figure before? > Alright if it was a single alien-person, but to me it sounds like > showing a picture of a black man to a race of whites and they will go > "Yeah! He's black alright!". > I don't mean to offend you, but you're not talking about a person - > you're talking about a whole supposed alien race here, right? > Jorgen / WUFOC Hi, Jurgen. I wasn't thinking of showing abductees a single alien image. I imagine they've all seen images like it before, in the media, if not (as they believe) in reality. My thought was to show them several variants of that image. And the images do vary a lot. The one on Communion has a longer face than the one on Intruders, and the one Strieber posted recently looks more fetus-like than either. If the abductees mostly picked one image as closest to what they've claimed to really see, I thought that might suggest their claims were true. Is that clearer? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Wormwood? From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:18:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:50:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? >Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:51:08 -0600 (CST) >X-Sender: bdzeiler@anet-chi.com >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Wormwood? >Any ideas for why the government would possibly promote bizarre Hale-Bopp >conspiracy theories? >Brian I thought the government was covering up the Hale-Bopp conspiracy. Presumably because societies that become convinced of an impending apocalypse have a nasty habit of forgetting to pay their tax. David
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 04:24:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:51:38 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Sunday, December 15, 1996 11:12 AM > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 11:51:34 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > References: <2.2.32.19961212082318.00700450@globalserve.net> > > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > > These folks seem to have an extremely difficult time > > disassociating themselves from the tremendous emotional > > attachment to their experience. > Anything as seriously traumatic as this is going to present a whole set > of separate problems, which is why I think the psychological aspect and > any related therapy should be separate from any research/investigation. Well, this opens to the question of whether the therapy should come before the research. Another question that comes to mind is how is therapy administered to treat a problem for which there is no precedent within the mental health field? To be sure, there has been work done with those who have been abducted and held against their will, but these cases involved human captors. The equation is not the same. I feel that in these regards, those who have undergone this type of experience and have been able to deal with the problem successfully, would be of some value here. > There's no reason why abductees can't be involved in the > research/investigation but there are some otherwise obvious groundrules > associated with that. It isn't a crime that one or another person has > difficulty separating themselves from the phenomenon, I'd be surprised > if that wasn't pretty much always the case. I was not referring to disassociating oneself from the phenomena John, but from the emotional content that came as a result of the experience. However, that is also another point. One who has had this type of experience and intends to enter into research/investigation of abductions and UFOlogy, should become capable of laying aside any beliefs and/or assumptions that came about as a result of his/her experience in order to be effective. > > That the reported circumstances of these phenomena is fantastic > > and all but unbelievable is true, but due to the overwhelming > > numbers it is clear that something exceedingly strange is and > > has been occurring. > I'm not so sure how overwhelming the number really are. True, its a lot > of abductees but they are mostly coming from a very small number of > abductionists. At any rate, the anecdotal data to date, overwhelming or > not, is clearly enough to indicates that _something_, rather than > nothing, is going on. I will concede that, but it is strange and in my view, real. I have seen various tentative hypothesis' put forth in an attempt to explain away these phenomena, but frankly John, I feel that the majority of these are more strange than the notion of some type of being whether from across the galaxy or from a slight phase of reality away from that we are used to perpetrating these events. As you know, I have my own idea as to what constitutes these events. I feel most strongly that it is a mistake as well as quite possibly constituting a great amount of danger for many in assuming/believing that these events are perpetrated by beings from another world across the galaxy. I feel the truth could be far stranger than that. > > > That's the only way we'll know that we got it right. > > Perhaps, but in any event it IS TIME NOW that an honest and > > totally objective study be made of what is occurring. Our > > collective future just may depend upon it. > The time is certainly now rather than later. I strongly feel the sooner the better. > > > And that is the filter through which I view every single bit of > > > ufological and paranormal data. The odd thing is that my approach > > > causes some skeptics to consider me a believer and it causes some > > > believers to consider me a skeptic. Go figure...<grin> > > Honesty is an all too rare commodity during these times. ;-) > Hahaha!! > > > > I have included a JPEG of the piece with this message. > > > Great picture! > > It IS for sale! <grin> > I'll mention that in the listing. Cool! I AM asking $125.00 > > Just think of what a conversation piece it would make hanging in > > your entryway! <wide evil grin> > Just think what a conversation piece _I'd_ make hanging in my foyer if > my wife found out I bought something like that!!!! <GRIN> ROTFL! Kindest Regards, Clarke Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Archival Research [Foo Fighters] From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:18:04 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:49:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Archival Research [Foo Fighters] Gary Levy wrote: > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:37:40 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Archival Research [Foo Fighters] > References: <2.2.32.19961213074834.006f3a60@globalserve.net> > UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:20:04 -0800 > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Archival Research/Foo Fighters > > References: <2.2.32.19961212082712.006c2910@globalserve.net> > > Hi Graham > > Re: FOO-FIGHTER > [snip] > Jan > I was wondering if you were familiar with Ivan Sanderson's material on > what should > also be listed under the rubric of "foo fighters" which he describes in > his book > Uninvited Visitors chapter II page 19-22. During WWII he served as a > British counter-intelligence agent in the Carribean and describes a > British army units' ground engagement in Curacao with an object which > later took off into the sky. It perfectly fits the description of a foo > fighter. I'd love to see the intelligence report on this, he dates it > to just before the invasion of Holland. He also personally had a > experince with such an object and reported it through his own > intelligence channels, yet he states that he was told to desist by his > intelligence HQ from reporting aerial green lights. This was a most > peculiar request "from the absolute top chaps of my service in London". > Unless of course they had a handle on it already or were pursuing the > investigation by other means. This would indeed take some digging. Don Berliner a number of years back wrote the British military about "foo-fighters." They asked a large number of questions which he answered. He then received a number of night sightings of Me-262s and Me 198s. (There were night fighter squadrons of German jets, but their use was very limited and most of the operations were around Berlin. Me-198s could not possibly land at night and were not used.) They sightings were "foo-fighters." Of course, like most ufo reports many have logical explanations like Venus, flares or a device the German's like to use "scarecrows." They would tow a flaming aircraft part and release it into Allied aircraft formations. Some British airman that tangled with unknowns in 1942 called them "The Light." Many intelligence officers had ready explanations for "foo-fighters." If seen during daylight they were floaters or at night "after-images." Jeff Lindell in his interviews learned that if he approached aircrafts for all sides of the belief spectrum, he got excellent cooperation. The conversation might go like this: Did you ever encounter "foo-fighters?" " No." "Unusual lights." "Yes, the debriefing officer said it was Venus. It followed us on the left side for a while, then it came around to the right, then it streaked off." Some skeptical aircrews thought that they had a vertigo incident. > The absence, at least in the literature I have seen to date, of what I > would term an appropriate > investigation and analysis on the part of the military and intelligence > agencies during WWII, of this phenomenon in its varied manifestations is > peculiar to say the least. Hynek had marked an intelligence report about 1952 Korean sighting as having information on what the military thought of "foo-fighters." > I have a particular interest in this subject. I would appreciate if you > could let me know when and where your manuscript will be published. > Thanks, > Gary There is much more research to be done here. The 415th NFS personnel recalled being stationed near a French night fighter squadron at about the same time "foo-fighters" were seen. A look in French military archives would be interesting. Project Wringer, the interrogation of former Axis personnel, displaced persons, and returning POWs might have material about foo-fighters in the files. No one has systemically gone over 8th, and 9th Air Forces intelligence files. So there are still plenty of places to look. I currently have ten rolls of microfilm on order for the Asst Chief of Staff/Intelligence ,AAF office, which might contain such files. The Robertson panel report mentions that Alvarez, Robertson, and Griggs had had some experience concerning foo-fighters. There is nothing in papers of Alvarez or Robertson. Griggs' papers have not been checked. Since they were associated with Operation Cross Bow, some mention of foo-fighters might exist there. 415th NSF personnel recall the visit of a scientist who went up on one of their missions. They had no contact that night, and the scientist left scared out of his wits. Jan Aldrich, Project 1947 Search for other documents from or mentioning: jan | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:40:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:47:45 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' Vince Johnson wrote: > Hi Greg, > I think you're automatically ascribing a pejorative meaning to the > terms "self claimed" or "self proclaimed" that really isn't justified. > An accusation of rape without any substantiating evidence is only an > accusation -- not a verdict. To describe the claimant as a "rape > victim" in the absence of *any* supporting evidence indicates a prima > facie acceptance of the claim and reveals an endorsement of the > claimant's tale. > Jurisprudence, as well as science, just doesn't work that way. > Accepting the fact that inexplicably weird things really do happen to > people, we also know that people make stuff up for a variety of > reasons. Use of the term "self-proclaimed" is just a qualifier to > indicate that the claims have not been verified and/or the absence of > any supporting evidence. > Regards, > Vince Vince, I understand that the literal meaning of the words isn't pejorative. I can only tell you how they're used in magazines and newspapers. In practice, phrases like "self-claimed" and, even more, "self-proclaimed" are used to underline the fact that the person involved is making unsubstantiated claims about him- or herself. For instance, when we talk about an "abductee," we understand, most of us, that these are people who think they've been abducted by aliens. We also understand that these abductions haven't been proved. If we start talking about "self-claimed," we're underlining the fact that the abductions haven't been proved. This will usually have a slightly derisive effect, as if we were saying "these people who claim to be abducted, but hah! They can't prove it." That's what a political columnist would mean in referring to the "self-proclaimed Grand Vizier of the Ku Klux Klan." That translates as "this jerk who invented a phony title to inflate his position as head of a tiny, hateful band of idiots." If you read a reference to "Bill Clinton, a self=claimed moderate," you're probably reading a Republican commentator who still is harping on the charge that Clinton is really a liberal. If I was still a senior editor at Entertainment Weekly, I could quickly survey my colleagues. This was not the kind of thing we ever argued about, and my guess is that they'd have readily agreed that these terms are at least mildly critical, and that whenever a writer used one of them, we had to be careful that the critical or faintly demeaning tone was justified. I've just finished a piece on UFOs for a national magazine. If I referred to "self-claimed abductees," I think I can guarantee (to use a word from John Powell's phrasebook!) that my editor would query it. He'd take the phrase as an indication that I thought abductions weren't real, and ask me why I had to insist on that so strongly. >From the American Heritage Dictionary, 3d edition: self-proclaimed: "so called by oneself; self-styled" self-styled: "as characterized by oneself, often without right or justification." >From the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary: self-proclaimed: "proclaimed to be so by oneself, without authorization from another" from Webster's New World Dictionary: self-proclaimed: "so proclaimed or announced by oneself" (their example is the kind of usage I've been talking about: "a self-proclaimed ruler") The other major dictionaries, the Merriam-Webster and the Random House Webster's, don't include these words. And yes, I'm a dictionary nut. I've got to laugh at myself, but I actually have all these (and a few more!) on my bookshelves... Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Alice Springs Sightings From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 03:55:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:54:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Alice Springs Sightings With reference to the report that police in Alice Springs, Northern Australia, had videotaped a flight of UFOs on 26 November 1996: Interesting that Pine Gap should come into the equation here, not least because we have a similar NSA listening facility less than five miles from our Otley (Yorkshire - UK) office - Menwith Hill. Some 2,500 NSA (National Security Agency) personnel work on the "Hill" and just a few weeks ago we had, would you believe, two independent UFO reports from members of the public of a formation of objects seen hovering directly over the base. North Yorkshire Police kindly passed on details after the witnesses contacted them. Coincidence perhaps, but very interesting that two of the biggest listening NSA stations in the world should be experiencing similar reports of this nature around the same time (I should have the precise dates of the Menwith Hill incidents later in the day). Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Tastes Like Chicken... From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:39:05 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:53:45 -0500 Subject: Tastes Like Chicken... Something from the other side of engineering practicality... Subject: chicken Author: Susan Turner at CorpSoftDallas Date: 9/19/96 6:35 PM To: Jettsetters In a recent issue of "Meat and Poultry" magazine, editors quoted from "Feathers," the publication of the California Poultry Industry Federation, telling this story: It seems the US Federal Aviation Administration has a unique device for testing the strength of windshields on airplanes. The device is a gun that launches a dead chicken at a plane's windshield at approximately the speed at which the plane flies. The theory is that if the windshield doesn't crack from the carcass impact, it'll survive a real collision with a bird during flight. The British were very interested in this device and wanted to test a windshield on a brand-new speedy locomotive they've been developing. They borrowed the FAA's chicken launcher, loaded the chicken, and fired. The ballistic chicken shattered the windshield, went through the engineer's chair, broke an instrument panel, and embedded itself in the back wall of the engine cab. The British were stunned and asked the FAA to check the test to see whether everything had been done correctly. The FAA reviewed the test thoroughly and had one recommendation: "Use a thawed chicken." Sometimes even the facts are difficult to understand. God bless ----- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: #6: What do you want? #2: Information. We want information. /\/\/\/\/\:: :: #6: You won't get it. #2: By hook or by crook, we will. / One of :: :: infohead@airmail.net * http://web2.airmail.net/yogi/ufo.html / the Texas :: :: * Dallas, Texas, USA * ASK ABOUT OUR TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE! */ InfoHeads :: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Wormwood? From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 03:55:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:55:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? In respect of the anonymous message posted about some kind of Vatican computer link to the Hubble Space Telescope. Anonymous source material has to be taken with the proverbial "pinch of salt" of course, but I thought it would interest colleagues if I quote directly from a small piece submitted by our astronomy correspondent, Andrew Pike, which featured in his Space & Astronomy column in our September/October '96 issue of UFO Magazine (page 63). Andrew Pike is a physics graduate of the University of London, where he was awarded a degree in Astrophysics. He has carried out post-graduate work in Mathematical Modelling, and is both a Member of the British Astronomical Association and Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society. He is a frequent broadcaster about astronomy and space matters. Andrew Pike's article, plus Night Sky Guide for September/October '96, arrived early August. The issue itself appeared on the newsstands here in the UK on Thursday, 29 August. I quote: HEAVENS ABOVE! IT PROBABLY COMES AS NO SURPRISE TO LEARN NASA HAVE SEVERAL HUNDRED UNRELEASED PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THE HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE. RUMOURS ARE CURRENTLY CIRCULATING IN THE WORLD OF ASTRONOMY THAT ONE TAKEN ON 26 MARCH 1996, AND BEING HELD BACK, SHOWS A WHITE CITY OF MASSIVE PROPORTIONS JUST FLOATING IN DEEP SPACE, REMINISCENT OF HEAVEN! ONE NASA SPOKESMAN SAID: "MAYBE THE WILL OF GOD POINTED THE TELESCOPE IN THAT DIRECTION." IT SEEMS THAT PRESIDENT CLINTON, VICE-PRESIDENT AL GORE AND POPE JOHN PAUL II ARE BEING KEPT UPDATED. IT'S ALSO RUMOURED NASA WILL RELEASE THE PHOTOGRAPH, ONLY BECAUSE IT IS SAID TO HAVE ALREADY BEEN LEAKED. MAKE OF THAT WHAT YOU WILL! [End-Quote I draw this article to your attention because it is the only boni-fide and authenticated reference from a named source (Andrew Pike) which includes the Pope, Hubble Space Telescope and a mysterious object in space. It does not purport to give credence to the claims submitted by the anonymous "Priest" but it does pose some interesting questions. Unfortunately, Andrew Pike does not have an E-mail facility, but he has provided yet further interesting comments about Hale-Bopp in his latest Space & Astronomy column which features in the impending Jan/Feb '97 issue of UFO Magazine (on-sale date 27 December here in the UK). Food for thought - consigned to the waste basket, or the "grey" basket? All the best, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Code of ethics From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 06:57:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:52:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of ethics ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > Date: Sunday, December 15, 1996 11:13 AM > > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 13:05:27 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > References: <2.2.32.19961212082533.0075e8dc@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > > > > > We are incorrect if we expect traditional psychologists to be > > > the alien abduction private detectives that the abductionists > > > pretend to be. That is something they are _not_ trained for and > > > something they are generally _not_ going to be good at. > > Correct. But, due to the tremendous amount of psychic shock > > attendant to most if not all 'alien' abduction cases, these are > > the 'professionals' who are likely to be chosen to deal with the > > problem. Privately (now known by any who reads this), I feel > > that the shock would be better dealt with by one steeped in > > spirituality then in psychology. I suspect that spirituality has > > everything to do with the problem. By 'spirituality' I AM not > > necessarily referring to those of a clerical persuasion, > > although there are certainly those of the ministry that are of a > > high degree of spirituality. There are a multitude of facets to > > this gem of inquiry my friend. Among these is awareness. > > We have self-claimed experiencers from virtually all faiths and > religions so I'm think that a spiritual approach might be pretty > difficult to come up with. Certainly for some people their particular > religious faith is going to be severely challenged by these experiences. Question: How did my statement refer necessarily to any of RELIGIOUS persuasion John? Question: Why and how does the term SPIRITUAL equate to the condition of RELIGION? In my view, spirituality and faith have really very little to do with religion and dogma John. It has been my experience that religion has served to retard spirituality and hinder faith in many rather than to perpetuate it. > > > Tough question: What's more important - getting the > > > self-claimed abductees off the bench and back into the game; or, > > > finding out what really happenned to them? > > Both are of equal importance John and both can be accomplished > > in my view. > > But if you could _only_ pick one to start with???? Ahhhh well, responsibly I would work toward getting the player off of the bench. > > > Take a glance at the Hippocratic Oath and it'll give you a > > > clue as to the answer the mental health community selects. > > Don't get me started on that one! <grin> > > Hahahaha!!! The point was that no matter how badly we want to know what > has happenned, and I really want to know what happenned, our _first_ > priority has to be to the health and wellness of the _person_. I buy that! :-) > > > So, if we separate treatment from the detective work I think > > > we can see that virtually all MHPs are basically qualified to > > > initiate (or to facilitate) work with a self-claimed abductee. > > The only facet of the equation that pertains to mental health > > and this is marginal, is the extreme amount of trauma > > emotionally that one receives as a result of this type of > > experience. I was very nearly a basket case by the time that > > hypno-regression was offered to me by a practicing psychologist. > > Having had no other offered alternative or not being aware of > > one, I jumped at the chance. > > That's the facet I'm talking about, that's the _only_ MHP aspect I'm > talking about. Just looking after the health/wellness of the > experiencer, dealing with the trauma in a traditional theraputic > setting. That is something MHPs do all the time and they really don't > have to have been raped to know how to help rape victims and they really > don't have to know much if anything about alleged alien > abductions/contact to help those people. Unfortunately, the particular mental health professional in question didn't provide any therapy at all, but rather attempted to convince me that my experience was a beneficial one conducted by benevolent beings. This really only served to compound the problem. When I began to attempt to take a look at my experience from a metaphysical/spiritual viewpoint after some research, I was able after a time to begin to accept what had happened to me. I must however qualify that I only accept that something exceedingly strange happened. I recall the events as having a third dimensional reality, but question a great portion of that as being fact. > > > Another misconception regarding psychotherapy that sometimes > > > confuses things is the notion that whatever it is that's bother > > > someone must be either proven right to be dealt with successfully or > > > must be proven wrong and elimnated from their minds before > > > theraputic success can occur. Both are completely wrong and neither > > > are a part of traditional psychotherapy. > > I suppose to some degree I experienced this, but as you must > > realize, I AM somewhat an independent thinker and I couldn't > > honestly buy the 'party line'. I have always run partially on my > > intuition and at times it has kept me alive. > > Standard therapy isn't about whether your experience is real or not, its > just about the issues related to you and your reactions. Well, I suppose that this is true. I know that I have come to an understanding of my reactions concerning the event. > > Don't ask me to elaborate because I won't. > > Ok, I won't <grin>. > > > > Well, I suspect the debate on hypnotic regression isn't going to go > > > away anytime soon so you and can just respectfully disagree for now > > > <grin>. > > It takes an intelligent, honest and unbiased practitioner. > > However, it is O.K. that we have different opinions, I still > > like yuh. <grin> > > Its not the type of thing that either of us need to be right or wrong > on, and eventually it'll get sorted out <grin>. Given my concerns John, I sincerely hope so. :-) > > > I have several papers on my BBS dealing with eyewitness observation > > > studies. Children are more easily fooled, and more easily > > > fool themselves but the problem doesn't go away with age. Adult > > > observational accuracy is only about 50%. > > Julie states that she is familiar with what you are stating and > > that you are correct. > > But she adds, that has nothing to do with hypnosis and > > everything to do with eyewitness observation. Eyewitness > > accounts contain the most fault of all as they are nearly in > > every case different from one another. > > Yep, those studies and the ones I'm familiar are not in any way > _directly_ related to hypnosis. > > > > I can only, just barely, in the most modest way, appreciate > > > what you experienced. But remove yourself from the equation for a > > > moment. You had extraordinary experiences, some of which may have > > > been witnessed (or maybe they were shared). But aside from the > > > testimonial power of taking your word for it how do we objectify the > > > experiences and convince anyone else that they occurred? > > I don't know other than to undertake what you have suggested, > > that is to be constantly monitored. > > Some experiencers go through a period when its extremely important for > them to tell others about what happenned to them for the purpose of > self-testing their own telling of the experiences and for the purpose of > self-testing their belief by attempting to transfer some amount of that > belief to the listener. Sure. I found myself in the position of seriously questioning my own sanity. Equally important from my standpoint, was that I was thrown into absolute confusion and resulting fear as well as shock over the fact that some very elite training that I had undergone years ago and which some attributes of this I had practiced for the better part of my life had availed me nothing. > As an example only, I'm sure most of us have at one time or another met > a recently converted born-again type person who was totally intent on > converting _us_ at that very moment. Part of what's happenning in that > event is that the person is getting something positive simply from the > telling/re-telling of their story. They belief in their experience is > invigorated by the re-telling of it. Another part of what's happening > is that the person is hoping to get a form of validation by causing the > other person to accept their story. After all, if you can convince > someone else that what you're saying is true then, in an odd sort of > referential way, it must be true - if it can be believed by someone else > then it must be believable. I don't know John. You need to appreciate that I was questioning my sanity. I feel that this has been the case of many others as well. It is a difficult thing to accept that others may think that you are not playing with a full deck. I had to come to a place where I had accepted what had happened to and to accept that unless also experienced by another, there was simply no way they could understand where I was coming from and to be O.K. with that. I don't really think that other experiencers are too different from me except that some of them haven't been as successful at integrating the experience as I have. I AM not so sure that my statement is fair moreover due to the fact that for some of them the experiences have continued. > > However, I want to present another can of worms. > > This may in reality be a REAL catch 22, John. > > The indicator of this is the seeming fact that the phenomena > > itself controls it's own flow of information concerning itself. > > Vallee has done a lot of discussion on this aspect if I > > understand it correctly. I suspect that in many if not all of > > the cases, if a person is being monitored, the events will cease > > or failing that the monitoring equipment will be rendered > > useless for a period of time corresponding to yet another > > reported abduction. What does one do in such a situation? It is > > obvious that something is occurring, but what? > > Of the two options I'd prefer to have the events cease and I'm sure the > 'subject' would too! To be sure! :-) > There is a catch-22 here. If we establish elaborate electronic > monitoring and that equipment shows _NO_ physical activity and _NO_ > signs of tampering with the gear, yet the abductee reports that they > were in fact abducted, we would have no choice except to assume that > whatever happenned was non-physical. That does not make the events any less real nor dangerous. Man is after all, a multi-dimensional creature. The vast majority of us have barely scratched the surface of our realization of this. We have much to learn. > > You got me, buddy. Still, you have to admit that based upon the > > numbers alone, there is something decidedly strange going on. > > I've been convincved that something was going on for decades... As have I. Furthermore, I have come to suspect that persisting in attempting to gain any understanding utilizing a traditional approach is/will be futile. > > I feel it is ominous. It serves to unsettle me to a degree. > > I don't feel good about it when I think of it. Furthermore on > > another note, it is most unsettling to note that on the New > > Age/UFO/E.T. conference circuit, we witness proclaimed experts > > declaring that the Alien Space Brothers are on their way here > > with eminent arrival to completely restructure our systems of > > religion and to replace the ten commandments. > > Who asked 'em? I'm not a member of any system of religion so I guess I > get the short end of the stick? I'd be better served if the aliens > replaced my cable TV company... I feel that systems of religion have little to nothing whatsoever to do with this equation John. > > What does that tell you about the experts that promote this type > > of material? > > I suggest that these folks are looking for a messiah that is, > > someone to relieve them of the responsibilities for their own > > actions. This was the case of the Jews when Jesus came onto the > > scene. They were looking for the messiah to take them out of > > hard times to sever the Roman yoke. > > I think most people go through periods when they question what they > believe and period when they want a set of beliefs that actually work > for them. I don't think that now is fundamentally different from any > other period of time except that things happen much faster in this time > period. We are discussing something that greatly has to do with spirituality or the lack thereof John, that is responsibility. As far as the speed with which as well as the frequency of things happening, well that is indirectly related to spirituality as well. Today people are constantly complaining that things (events, problems to solve, LIFE) are being thrown at them with never before experienced frequency, speed and intensity. When asked why, I attempt to explain it, but the person usually expresses denial. <chuckle> They then go their way doing the same things over and over expecting different results, but receiving the same ... still searching for the causation. > > > No argument there. But imagine this: Imagine the leaders of > > > the AMA, the APA and a dozen other prestigeous medical groups held a > > > news conference and announced that, Yes, aliens are here abducting > > > people. > > You gonna have some panic'd people. > > Some. A bunch I'd wager. And I needn't remind you John, Fear usually breeds violence. > > > That constitutes recognition of the (alleged) problem but what > > > good would it do, what would happen next? > > After the excitement wore down, it might get some real and > > useful research in progress. > > I AM compelled to add however, that this research does not > > necessarily call for an abundance of mental health > > professionals. I don't feel professional status or occupation in > > these regards are as important as ethical principles. > > It actually doesn't call for an abundance of anything except funding. If it involved electronic monitoring I agree with you. > > I understand that. I have even met a couple who privately shared > > with me the strange events that they had experienced not too > > dissimilar to my own. Perhaps what is needed is a revolution of > > sorts that will remove the minority from visibility and place > > those of true ethics in the spotlight. > > However, how this could be accomplished I have no idea. Somehow > > these in the minority should be shown for the scam artists that > > they are. > > Those changes happen across generations. As one generation moves out or > prominence another one moves in. It takes time. What if time is not a commodity that we can any longer enjoy in these regards? > > > But I don't think this is about scientists having an open > > > mind. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that this is really about > > > experiencer's wanting much greater acceptance than they currently > > > have... > > I don't know. I have somewhat disassociated myself from the > > emotional turmoil that was a result of my experience(s). It > > doesn't bother me overmuch that you can't accept outright what I > > recall happened to me. To you it is only information subject to > > question. It is not a part of your subjective experience ..I.E: > > Knowledge. To me however, a good deal of it is knowledge. > > You've passed through that period when you _needed_ people to believe > you (because it helped you to believe you). It _shouldn't_ matter to > you that others don't or can't believe you, and you realize that. > That's about as rock-bottom normal as you cannget <grin>. John, there is a great deal concerning my recalled (vividly real) experience that I DO NOT for a second believe. The second part of your statement is true though. > > > > Electronic monitoring. I suppose it is possible John, but at > > > > what cost? > > > A few thousand dollars, at most. Possibly even for free _IF_ > > > abductees were to start filing police reports. > > I would be willing to do that as I AM sure others would, if > > assured that there would be NO ridicule from those within this > > profession. I feel however, that this is extremely unlikely. > > It occurred to me when I was writing that that in those areas where we > are _already_ using electronic monitoring of pre-release convicts the > costs would be essentially zero. The equipment is already in place as > are the people to do the monitoring. Then it should be utilized. > > > You lost me on that one. Please try again. > > Some will see paranormal occurrences while some won't. > > There is much more to 'sight' then the physical eyes. > > Something does NOT have to be a part of everyone's subjective > > experience in order to be real. > > I get it, yes. <grin> > > > I think you've lost me again. Reality is. That is a > > > fundamental concept that would require an enormous amount of > > > scientific evidence to shake. One very basic assumption is that > > > there is a thing called 'reality' that we can, with much work, > > > observe and figure out. > > Reality IS, yes, but it is composed of layers or levels. > > Energy IS and All is composed of energy. Matter and energy after > > all is transmutable. > > Energy can be described as vibrating at different frequency, > > that is the different components that comprise it vibrate at > > different rates. What I AM suggesting here is that as this > > planet's rate of vibrational frequency is on the rise, so it is > > that everything of a non-sentient nature is rising with it. > > Occupants of this planet that bear sentience must let go of > > certain qualities that serve as restriction in order to rise > > along with everything else. This higher frequency is disrupting > > the natural electrochemical action within the brains of many of > > those who are most resistant to this vibratory rise. These may > > all be metaphysical tenets to be sure, but I believe that I read > > a respectable scientific report somewhere that indicated that > > the vibratory rate of this planet was indeed on the upswing. > > Although not constituting absolute proof of the above, the > > indications are there. > > How do we objectively prove that things are vibrating at a higher > frequency, how do we prove that this affects human thinking? That is two questions. As to the first, I suspect that our physical instrumentation may be at or near their limitations of possibility. However, we can catalog the effects upon measurable phenomena of forces of higher frequency. Kirlian photography and newer, related technologies are an example of this. Of course, there have been other suggested explanations tendered for the phenomena observed in Kirlian photography, but no conclusive proof that I know of. Secondly, it affects awareness more than the thinking process. It serves to distort. > > > On the flip side, we do _assume_ that while 'reality' changes > > > a tiny bit over time, and while we change a tiny bit over time, that > > > the combined change is not sufficient to invalidate 'reality' or our > > > observations of it. The dangerous assumption inherent in the basic > > > assumption is that we don't think our 'mind' (our consciousness) is > > > changing much. Since we do all of our observing and understanding > > > with our mind it would be a big problem if _that_ was the element > > > that was evolving...<grin> > > All is in a flux of evolvement and change in my view, John. > > You and I have a very different vocabulary but we may be talking about > pretty much the same thing. I wouldn't be surprised. ;-) <wide grin> In any event, the concepts I AM attempting to convey are difficult to find useful words for. > > > The human mind uses all sorts of checks and balances during > > > normal conscious worktime to 'determine' the veracity of incoming > > > data (memory). Most if not all of those checks and balances are > > > suspended or drastically reduced during hypnotic regression. An > > > item comes into a person's memory stream without passing through > > > those checks and balances and once it is there it is recorded as if > > > it _did_ pass through those checks and balances. In other words, > > > the person 'acquires' these 'memories' and has no real reason to > > > disbelieve them and every reason to accept them. They are stored in > > > the person's mind as if they were real and once stored that way they > > > cannot be changed (without active, aggressive and intrusive > > > "brainwashing"). > > I must constitute an anomaly, John. I remember things and for me > > they are extremely real, but certain of these I strongly > > question. Even though I disagree with nearly everything that the > > practitioner who regressed me espouses, he did not create any > > confabulation in my mind by suggestion as to where my experience > > was leading. I would like to lay that on his doorstep along with > > other things, but I honestly can't. > > But the point is that you wouldn't be able to detect the confabulation > generally. (Specifically, if confabulation happenned to be counter to > somehting you already knew you might get a hint of it.) Well, what I AM trying to imply is that I do recall his questions, there weren't many. Of these, none were as obviously leading as those of another researcher who I will not name who has demonstrated his technique on at least one television documentary. I believe that it was on the Discovery Channel. At any rate I AM not stating that there was NO confabulation. I AM stating that there was no confabulation by the human practitioner in my case. However, yes I do suspect that there was a bit of confabulation in my case, but that this constitutes a phenomena for study in itself. > > There have been encounters of sorts and attempts, but they have > > been nipped in the bud. > > I can tell you that these were of a purely paranormal nature. > > Most of them involved Julie as well. > > I don't know why most abductionists ignore the paranormal aspects of the > event. Until recently the paranormal aspects were _actively_ censored > out of abduction accounts, even by MUFON. I will state that I feel with every fibre of my being that this is the aspect that is the key. That this aspect of nearly every case is all but ignored by nearly every researcher that I know of, is doing themselves and more importantly the rest of us, a great disservice. If it is there, then it is of significance. I think that many have already made up their mind that this phenomena comes to us from across the galaxy, John. I think that they fear that if the incidence of paranormal phenomena is recognized, then abduction incidents in general will be declared non-physical. Frankly even if they were, I fail to understand the significance of that. The phenomena is still occurring and leaving circumstantial physical evidence. Put another way, the phenomena is occurring and may be partially of a non-physical nature or para-physical nature leaving physical effects in some cases. In any case, something is happening and it may well be very dangerous. > > > One of the basic elements of the alien abduction event scenario is > > > that abductions routinely occur to abductees and are > > > cross-generational. That should make it easy to find suitable > > > candidates for electronic monitoring. > > Yes, I understand this to be true. I do not know if this applies > > in my case and if it did, I feel sure that it would be strongly > > denied. > > I don't know if that's _actually_ true but its what the abductionists > are saying. In many cases yes. There also seems to be some suspicion that it happens to a greater percentage of military people and/or their dependents. > > > NO argument about the trauma. I (personal opinion) suspect > > > that they are not physical events at all. Electronic monitoring > > > would likely prove that. That doesn't mean it isn't real but it > > > would change the direction of abduction research. > > I could recite a few of the more recent episodes that would > > underline what you suggest above. > > Julie awoke in the middle of the night during one of these to > > see a gray coming out of the ceiling above pulling me up toward > > it out of my body. The more physical portion of my body still > > reposed flat on it's back. She made a loud noise and I vividly > > recall her stating that if I lay back they couldn't take me. > > Needless to say, I did. Now this isn't something that any > > instruments can capture other than the physical secondary sounds > > which aren't necessarily present in each occurrence or all > > occurrences. > > The above is the tail end of one of these episodes. What started > > the episode was Julie being awakened by a droning noise that > > increased in volume. She opened her eyes and began to notice > > that the room we were in was becoming lighter and lighter. She > > could 'feel' who ever was causing this become cognizant of the > > fact that she (Julie) was aware of what was going on. At that > > point, the room began to grow dimmer. Julie would close her eyes > > to experience the same thing a little later on. She stated to me > > the next day that she found the event to be extremely interesting. > > Finally she went totally back to sleep only to be awakened with > > the view of me being pulled upward. > > No such activity has occurred since we have been here in the > > four corners area. > > I guess the move was a benefit in more ways than one! We've had certain phenomena 'bug' us here, but I AM not prepared to relate it to what occurred in Sacramento. The 'flavor' of these episodes have been different. I'd like to point out that a former colleague in Sacramento moved to Utah for a few months. When he did, his attitude seemed to change much to the good. Upon moving back to Sacramento however, his attitude reverted to even worse than it was when we left. this only served to deepen my suspicion that this individual is under some sort of powerful negative influence in the Sacramento area. > Your description suggests that it was much more a 'paranormal' event > than a physical event. Yes. Much more readily discernible as such than my experience in 1990. > > I follow you. However, this training that I alluded to isn't > > necessarily mental, but spiritual. > > Well, to be acceptable it'll have to 'packaged' in such a way as to be > non-spiritual <grin>. It is packaged as a heightening of awareness. I understand that most people take the term 'spiritual' with a religious connotation. That is unfortunate, but incorrect nonetheless. > > > Suppose this was done by _real_ mainstream scientists and > > > MHPs. Even then do you think the taxpayers of this country would > > > stand still for nationwide taxpayer-funded abductee version of a > > > flu-shot??? > > Again, I follow you. However, not many medical people in my > > experience would be qualified to provide this training much less > > suggest where to obtain it. I also wish to point out that those > > who are qualified to provide this training would accept very > > little recompense for it. It would also be extremely difficult > > if not impossible to provide this type of training in a > > classroom type setting. > > But then again, I might be serving to limit things. :-) > > If average people can be trained then so can medical people, if > medical people can be trained then they should be able to train > others... Just may take a little more work. Any could be trained with suspension of Ego. Ego serves to hamper understanding. > > > You and I won't live long enough to see that. We know that > > > dowsing is a real, objective and physical phenomenon but we really > > > don't have a good model for how it works. We know that magnetic > > > fields are somehow involved in functinal dowsing but we don't really > > > know how. We also know that magnetic fields are involved in a number > > > of mind-reality phenomena, some of which are observational. That's > > > (so far as I know) about the sum total of what we can safely say we > > > know to date. (Except that magnetic fields, like gravitational > > > fields, don't exist on their own but are the result of something > > > else.) > > O.K. I'll tell you that I strongly feel that the majority of > > mankind had better see it John. > > This phenomena is occurring to more and more people all of the > > time. > > We are entering a new paradigm and I feel that mankind's well > > being as a whole may depend upon this. There are those of > > mankind however that will feel no impact of these occurrences. > > I just don't think it'll happen that quick. It might, but I just don't > see any indication that it will. My only honest response is that I suppose that time will tell. <grin> > In fact, the best indicators right now suggest to me that the entire > area of so-called alien abductions is ging to winding down over the next > roughly 10 or less years. If there's nothing new to report then you > have to re-report the past and you can only re-report the past a few > times before it becomes boring... I have a hunch that something will happen long before then to get everyone's attention. > > I do not feel that these phenomena fall into an MHP realm John. > > It is NOT a mental phenomena. Some of the cases may occur at > > least partially on a physical (third dimensional) level, but > > other aspects of each case seem to occur on a higher level of > > reality. > > Our explanation of the etheric seemed to make some sense to you. > > If this is in fact a level of reality in support of the physical > > as I have tried to indicate, and most of the occurrences do take > > place upon this and/or the astral or auric, then perhaps you > > can extrapolate the possible ramifications upon the physical. > > Our vocabulary differences and the terminology could get thick > here...<grin> <chuckle> > When I say 'mental' I'm not suggesting 'non-real,' I'm only making the > distinction between physical and non-physical. What you call the > 'etheric,' because it is non-physical, doesn't necessarily mean non-real > and I think is an aspect of the 'real,' non-physical, mental realm. Paranormal to many (including me) is exceedingly real. If it has any carryover effect into the physical, then even though it constitutes a great mystery, the indications of it's reality is there. Again, I must state that man is a multi-dimensional creature. That which is termed the paranormal is but another aspect of that condition. > The idea that because something is 'mental' and/or non-physical that is > is therefore non-real is _wrong_ (my opinion). I AM in complete agreement with you here. > The MHP aspect of this is _strictly_ related to the therapy associated > with the trauma of the experiences. Okay. > > I AM suggesting that perhaps mankind is being undermined here. > > Could be. I don't know enough to know if its a negative or positive > thing. I don't even know enough to know if concepts like 'negative' or > 'positive' are even applicable. I don't have anything concrete to substantiate one way or another. All I can state is that my deepest inside 'feelings' are profoundly unsettled when it comes to this subject. I just don't feel good about it and I long ago learned I need to pay attention to these types of 'feelings'. Kindest Regards, Clarke Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 UFO UpDate MIR 22 Crew News Conference Set From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:42:00 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:00:06 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate MIR 22 Crew News Conference Set Debra Rahn Headquarters, Washington, DC December 16, 1996 (Phone: 202/358-1639) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Rob Navias Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX (Phone: 281/483-5111) NOTE TO EDITORS: N96-82 MIR 22 CREW NEWS CONFERENCE SET U.S. astronaut John Blaha and his Russian crewmates, Commander Valery Korzun and Flight Engineer Alexander Kaleri, will hold a news conference from the Russian space station Mir on Thursday, December 19, at approximately 10:50 a.m. EST. The news conference, which will last approximately 25 minutes, will be broadcast on NASA Television with two-way question and answer capability for reporters at participating NASA Centers. Translation will be provided. Blaha became a Mir crew member on September 19, three days after launching with the STS-79 astronauts on the Shuttle Atlantis. Blaha is scheduled to remain on the Mir until mid-January, when he will be replaced by astronaut Jerry Linenger after Atlantis carries the STS-81 astronauts on the fifth Shuttle docking with Mir. Blaha will return to Earth with the STS-81 crew. NASA Television is carried on Spacenet 2, Transponder 5, Channel 9 at 69 degrees West longitude, horizontal polarization, frequency 3880 Mhz, audio 6.8 Mhz. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Code of Ethics From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:10:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:59:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of Ethics >Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:25:54 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics >References: <2.2.32.19961210045644.0072dea0@globalserve.net> >If you want to criticize abduction research, go right ahead. But I think >all of us (me included) would be better off if we conducted our debates >with consistent respect. >Greg Sandow - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Yes ... "for each other." It takes some practice but, you can say the same thing without attacking the person. Hopefully, you're debating "his/her ideas" and not the person. Amen. Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Mantle E-Mail 'Disaster' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 01:22:27 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:58:19 -0500 Subject: Mantle E-Mail 'Disaster' Dear Errol, Fpr some reason that currently escapes me I had a recent computer malfunction that meant I lost all of my e-mail messages, address book, the lot. I have therefore had to start from scratch. I would therefore like to ask anyone that sent me an e-mail message on or before December 8th to do so again as I would like to catch up on all I've missed and to try and re-build my e-mail addres book. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle. el51@dial.pipex.com 16 December l996.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Skywatch: Evidence points to a Canadian From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 03:09:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:01:03 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: Evidence points to a Canadian ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Steve Wingate" <swingate@crl.com> To: iufo@world.std.com Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:48:39 -0800 Subject: (Fwd) Evidence points to a Canadian underground base, ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Alan Merrett" <amerrett@westlink.net> To: anomalous-images@world.std.com Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:14:00 -0700 Subject: Images: Evidence points to a Canadian underground base, eh... -> Anomalous Images Mailing List Just west of the city of Calgary, Alberta, in western Canada, lies the Bearspaw Hydro-Electric and Water Treatment Facility. There is a small reservoir behind the dam which is fed by the Bow River. Directly adjacent the area is a large, privately-owned rock and gravel quarry...and a 'bovine' genetics laboratory. The complex was constructed in 1954 and is owned by TransAlta Utilities Ltd. For more than 20 years, I, and others well known to me, have come to this place to fish. Everyone has their own tales of the bizarre happenings that have occurred at this location. In 1986, myself and a close friend were fishing there in the early fall...and had hiked west up the south shore of the reservoir to a small bay where some interesting sandstone caves are located. Upon arriving at the bay we climbed up the steep slope to the rock face. I immediately noticed a large, circular object resting just beneath the waters surface at the center of the bay. I pointed this out to my buddy...and he brazenly tossed a rock...the size of a grapefruit...down directly on top of the object. It came to life at once! A deep humming filled the inlet and tiny little wavelets appeared on the surface of the water directly over top of the object. The humming lasted about 30 seconds...and then ceased! Immediately, the object began to move...still submerged...out of the inlet and down into the deep river channel that cuts across the mouth of the bay. All the time that this was happening...the 'wavelet' activity continued on the surface above the craft. Even once it had disappeared you could still see its location in the water due to the surface disturbance. A UFO? Others who fish at the area have seen Bigfoot-type creatures. Some have even been chased and terrified nearly to death. Two men that I know reported seeing a shape-shifting being that was initially very large ( 3 meters in height )...shrink to a much smaller ( 1 meter in height ) upright-walking, hairy biped creature. The memory of this incident still plagues them to this day. ALIEN BIGFOOT? I, myself, have seen..and even spoken with a 'man' that warned us away from the area...and then appeared, impossibly I might add, at an other location soon afterward to AGAIN repeat the warning using exactly the same words and mannerisms. EVIDENCE OF CLONING? Many times in the past I, and others, have experienced seismic-like ground movements on...or near...the dam complex property. Southern Alberta has little, or no seismic activity. This is anomalous. SOMETHING GOING ON UNDERGROUND? Recently, in mid-September of this year, I arranged a fishing party with four close friends. We intended on going to Bearspaw for the day. Upon arriving, the usual access point to the property was literally covered with warnings, threats, and NO TRESPASSING signs. We approached several area land owners to ask for permission to cross their property to fish. We were met with total hostility at all but one location. The man that finally let us cross his land warned us of "weird" goings-on...and to check in again with him when we left!! He would not elaborate...much to my disappointment!*$#@ HUSH, HUSH THREATS & WARNINGS? The Bearspaw Bovine Genetics Laboratory has an international reputation...at least in agricultural circles. Before becoming leader of the Soviet Union, Mikhail Gorbachev was the Soviet Minister of Agriculture. I clearly remember him coming to Canada...and to Calgary specifically...to visit Bearspaw Genetics Labs. It made all the local papers. Several weeks after his visit, two giant Anatov freight aircraft arrived at Calgary International Airport to collect dozens of 'scientifically-engineered' cows for transport back to Mother Russia. The cattle, of course, came from Bearspaw Genetics. "IMPLANTED" CATTLE? My instinct tells me that something's going on at this location that not many people know about. If anyone....anywhere...has any information that they could share with me regarding Canadian anomalous areas....and more specifically in western Canada....please write me with the details. amerrett@westlink.net Suspiciously, Alan Merrett AM DIGITAL INC. Photographic Illustrator Anomalous Images and UFO Files http://www.linex.com/ufo ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ---------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: skywatch | swingate |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 1, Number 42 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:23:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:03:24 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 1, Number 42 --------------------- UFO ROUNDUP Volume 1, Number 42 December 15, 1996 Editor: Masinaigan FREE SAUDI JETLINER SEES UFO IN TWA 800 CRASH ZONE A Saudi Airlines jetliner encountered "a bright greenish object" while flying at 12,000 feet early Thursday morning, December 12, 1996. The encounter took place over the ocean about ten miles south of East Moriches, Long Island, New York. According to the USA Radio News broadcast on Friday, the Saudi jetliner was coming into John F. Kennedy International Airport at 6 a.m. when the flight crew spotted "a greenish white object with a long tail." The object was traveling from east to west, the same bearing as the Boeing 747, but at a higher altitude. According to the CNN report of the incident, the mysterious object was picked up on the Boeing 747's cockpit radar set. "At least one crew member saw the object for about two seconds." The greenish-white UFO appeared in the upper right hand corner of the windshield and zipped away, heading for the New Jersey coast, easily outrunning the jetliner. TWA Flight 800, also a Boeing 747, exploded in mid-air in this same area back in July, killing all 230 people aboard. In-mid November, a Pakistani Airlines Boeing 747 spotted a UFO traveling in a north-south trajectory. First Officer Nasir Aziz reportedly described it as "a dark object with four green lights." On Friday, James Kallstrom, FBI special agent in charge of the TWA 800 investigation, said "it was too early" to positively identify the object seen by the Saudi jetliner, but added that "it might have been one of the Geminid meteors." The Saudi sighting was the fourth UFO report to come out of Long Island since the crash of TWA 800 in July. In related TWA 800 news, Brenda Roberts, producer of the syndicated TV show "Journey," plans to do a show on the recent UFO sightings around Moriches Bay, Long Island. Ms. Roberts "entices, appeals to, encourages and begs" anyone living in that area who has video or still photos of Long Island UFOs to get in touch. The show will "document authentic sightings" in and around the TWA 800 crash zone. If you have any photos or videotape, contact Ms. Roberts at this address--broberts@nwlink.com (Editor's Comment: If the object registered on the cockpit radar, then it cannot have been higher than 100,000 feet. If it was a meteor, it should have been headed downward, not flying a parallel course toward the western horizon. Also, the time of the sighting--6 a.m. on December 12--was at least 37 hours before the actual start of the Geminid meteor shower at 7 p.m. on December 13. Will some mathematician please compute the odds of having two "meteors" flying at different trajectories passing through the same cubic mile of airspace within a period of three weeks? Thank you!) JET FIGHTER CHASES FOUR UFOs OVER MISSOURI Southwestern Missouri was the site of a big UFO flap earlier this week. On Saturday, December 7, 1996, at 5:30 a.m., a farmer feeding his cattle three miles (5 kilometers) west of Mansfield, Missouri (population 1,423) "was startled by a large orange ball of light moving silently above him." The UFO "descended and dropped behind some trees to the east." Two days later, on Monday, December 9, 1996, at 6:45 p.m. a father and daughter in Ash Grove, Missouri (population 1,157) spotted "a bright orange ball of light" about 10 degrees above the horizon. The UFO "hovered for several minutes, then vanished." The main action, though, took place in the city of Springfield (population 133,000) between 6 p.m. and 8 p.m. Brian Adams of the Ozarks Area Research Group was an eyewitness. "After arriving home (near the 2700 block of West Republic Road), I observed a large amount of strange aircraft lights in the clear evening sky to the south and east of Springfield. The peculiar lights were moving slowly in two groups of two in each direction. I used a set of 7X35 binoculars to view the lights from my deck in the backyard." Adams counted numerous small lights, "white, red and blue lights that were moving randomly around an oval-like perimeter. As the UFOs moved slowly about, you sensed that they were very high up in the atmosphere and that they were very large. At least three times larger than a commercial jet airliner." "My wife and 17-year-old son then came out to view the objects while I went inside to call some other local members of OARG to get them to go outside to view the UFOs and (to) get their opinion," he added. "One member, Bruce Lanza, and his wife, on the eastern side of Springfield (near the 1800 block of East Republic Road) noticed the strange aircraft also." Following "an hour of viewing, at 7:15 p.m., a very luminous orange ball of light was observed just above the horizon, moving slowly upward." While Adams viewed this object with his binoculars, it suddenly vanished. Five minutes later, "a jet fighter shot across the southern sky at approximately 300 miles per hour at a very low altitude of a couple thousand feet," Adams wrote. "I ran inside to call Bruce about the fighter jet, and while I was talking to him, I heard Bruce say that the jet was flying above his house. I ran back outside to see the jet" bank sharply and fly toward the spot where the orange sphere had vanished. At 8 p.m., Adams and his son "observed a very bright red oval-shaped UFO with small white lights appear in the south, moving westward very quickly." Lanza, a USAF veteran, reportedly identified the fighter jet as an F-15 Eagle, a tactical interceptor. Adams said he saw four distinct lighted objects and "the way they moved, very slowly. Like it was hovering. They decided to move to avoid detection by the approaching jet." The following day, OARG members began investigating. Adams phoned the Springfield/Branson Regional Control Tower at the local airport, which reportedly confirmed the presence of the F-15 the previous night. The jet pilot "was flying VFR (Visual Flight Rules)." Since the pilot was just passing through, Adams added, he was not required to notify the tower. Adams also learned that a squadron of USAF A-10 jets landed at the airport earlier that day and took off in the afternoon. (Email Interview) (Thanks to Brian Adams and the other OARG members for providing such detailed information.) NEW UFO SIGHTING OVER ECUADOR During the week of November 28, 1996, a triangular UFO appeared over the city of Cuenca (population 200,000), in the Andes mountains of southern Ecuador. One eyewitness, Charlene Estero, who was in Ecuador with her husband to visit his relatives, tells her story: "We were up late one night, making things for our neighbor's birthday party. We were beginning to finish up, and I went into another room. I saw my family outside with my video camera, looking up at the sky. I ran outside to see a strange object in the sky." Ms. Estero knew that it couldn't be a jetliner. Ecuatoriana Airlines runs only two flights per day from the capital, Quito, to Cuenca, one at 8 a.m., the other at 6 p.m. "There were three lights blinking and shutting off simultaneously," she reported. "The object was moving rather quickly. It seemed to be moving up and down and in a circular movement. We followed the UFO for a couple of blocks in total amazement." Her husband shot several minutes of video footage of the UFO. "We looked for another UFO the following week we were there (in Cuenca) but saw nothing," she added. (Editor's Note: Cuenca, located in an Andean mountain valley 500 kilometers (312 miles) south of Quito, is one of the oldest cities in South America. The Inca Tupac Yupanqui conquered it in 1480 and renamed it Tomebamba. At that time, it was already thousands of years old. It became Cuenca when the Spaniards conquered it in 1557. The mysterious ruins of Ingapirca are located 80 kilometers (64 miles) north of Cuenca, just outside the town of Canar.) BRITISH DEEJAY'S ENCOUNTER SPURS MANY CALLS At an early hour on Thursday, December 5, 1996, Robert Kingsley, an announcer for Gold Radio in Shaftesbury, Dorset, U.K. left for work. "At about twenty to six (5:40 a.m.), with a clear sky and a crescent moon, and as I was about a mile out of Shaftesbury, I think I saw a flash in the sky to my right and just behind me. It was very great, and by the time I turned my head, it was gone. But then, as I was parking the car, I saw a flash of light in the sky ahead of me, toward Salisbury in Wiltshire." He described the light as similar to "sheet lightning" but there was no storm. It "was a white light, diffused across the horizon." When Kingsley mentioned the incident during his morning talk show, the calls came flooding in. Anne Barclay, a female engineer, said her train had been rolling "out of Yedvil Junction at twenty to six (December 5) when the sky lit up in front of her." She thought immediately of electrified rails, but there are none on that section of the line. Another woman, Cheryl Flinders, said she'd "been working the night shift at Stalbridge for the past few weeks and, when she's been driving home to Shaftesbury in the early morning, she's often seen these light flashes," as have Cheryl's sister and her two children. "You know how it is, "Cheryl said, "You don't like to talk about these things in case someone thinks you're a bit daft, but I heard you talking about it (on the radio) and about all those other people saying they've seen things. And I thought, well..." John Spencer of Gillingham told Kingsley he'd seen these light flashes for the past few weeks, as well. "They seem to come from a direction due east of Gillingham and west of Shaftesbury." Kim Andrews saw the light flashes at 7:30 p.m. on Wednesday, December 4, "coming from over Bulbarrow way." Teenager Gregory Potts called in and said his father, Gary, had also seen the Bulbarrow lights at 7:30 that night. The following morning, Thursday, December 5, Gregory himself went outside at 5 a.m. and saw lights flashing in the Sturminster/Manton area. While driving to work at 4 a.m. on December 4, and home again at 7:30 p.m. on the (highway) A30, John Davis saw the light flashes. Teenagers Murray and Fern called the station and said they had seen the flashes at 6 a.m. on December 5 and had also seen "a blue-colored object" hovering above Glen Hill, just outside Sturminster. Christine Brown called the station to report that she'd seen a UFO on Thursday, November 21, 1996. She saw the UFO fly across a farm field in North Cheriton, near Wincanton in Somerset. She described the UFO as "30 feet (9 meters) in diameter and orange with matte, cream (coloured) markings." (Many thanks to Bob Kingsley for these reports.) UFOs VISIT FOUR LARGE CITIES IN AUSTRALIA Australia's ongoing UFO flap shows no sign of dying down. Sightings were reported all over the continent on Sunday and Monday, November 24 and 25. On Sunday night, November 24, 1996, residents of Perth, capital of Western Australia spotted "a large bright cigar- shaped object traveling from north to south." At arm's length, the object was estimated to be one inch long and 1/8 of an inch wide, "about 55 degrees in the sky and 20-plus miles away." Early Monday morning, November 25, at 1:25 a.m., people spied "a number of white balls of light" speeding through the sky in a southeasterly direction over the city of Adelaide, in South Australia. Suddenly, they changed direction, shooting off to the west. Within seconds, they altered course again, flying away to the northwest. At 10:30 p.m. Monday evening, November 25, people saw a flight of "intense bright orange fireball lights" speeding through the sky over Canberra, the nation's capital. The UFOs rocketed away toward the northwest. Forty-five minutes later, at 11:15 p.m., Monday, November 25, four "intensely bright orange fireball lights" appeared over Alice Springs, just north of the Queensland/South Australia border. The UFOs flew off to the west. An on-duty police officer was a witness and submitted a report to the IPP. (Many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National UFO Hotline for these reports.) NEW INFO SURFACES IN CAMARILLO CASE Mary Helen Corrado has uncovered new information in last week's sighting of a stationary UFO near Camarillo, California. According to Ms. Corrado, "As of December 13, there have been no more sightings" in the area. However, she added, "There was another close-range sighting of an orange, globe- like object that a number of people saw in the hills near" Camarillo. Motorists "actually pulled over to the side of the road" to observe the object. The UFO was first seen on Thursday, November 28, and reappeared at the same location for six straight days. Ms. Corrado saw the object on December 2 and 3 and shot the UFO on videotape. A video lab in southern California has confirmed that the object on tape is indeed a solid object. Ms. Corrado is now checking with the Ventura County Sheriff's Department to see if anyone reported the UFO. Her investigation continues. (Email Interview) HOVERING UFO DISABLES SMALL BOAT IN JAPAN On Tuesday evening, December 10, Jason M. set out in a small boat on Amakusa Bay, west of Japan's Kyushu Island. As he reached a point six miles (8 kilometers) from the shore of Nagasaki prefecture, he began trolling for fish. All at once, the boat's engine sputtered out. Jason was mystified. "I knew I still had gas, so I was quite surprised. All the lights on my boat had gone out, so I grabbed my emergency flashlight and went to check the connections on my battery. As I was hunched over, wrestling with the engine cover, I was suddenly awash in a dim yet eerie greenish light. I looked up and was gripped with terror. Hovering above my boat were three opposing circles of light." As soon as Jason stood up, the three UFOs "shot off over the horizon at an unimaginable speed. Immediately thereafter my boat lights came back on." (Unsolicited Email) SCIENTISTS ARGUE ABOUT HALE-BOPP COMPANION Claims that an anomalous object is accompanying the Comet Hale-Bopp on its tour of the solar system continue to stir controversy. On Sunday, December 8, Linda Moulton Howe appeared on the Art Bell Show and played two audio tapes from female scientists who questioned the "companion's" existence. One tape had comments from Dr. Martha Hanner, a comet specialist at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, whose field is infrared astronomy. Dr. Hanner reportedly said an object as large as the "companion" should certainly have been visible to infrared telescopes. But it has not. "Something that huge should certainly be shining bright in the infrared range." The second tape by Dr. Karen Melch of the University of Hawaii's Institute of Astronomy in Honolulu told how Hale-Bopp has been observed steadily since November 11 on the institute's large telescope array, with its charge-coupled device (CCD) 8-K camera. Their picture of the sky is 16 times larger than a conventional CCD-mounted telescope, with a field of view resolution of 33 percent of one degree. "There's clearly nothing in there but the stars and the comet," Dr. Melch reportedly said, adding that a UFO the size reported by astronomer Chuck Shramek of Houston, Texas would use up 6 arc-seconds of sky or 30 pixels in the CCD-telescope view. "You can't have something that large close to Hale-Bopp without it affecting the orbit, and the orbit has not been affected." Yet Dr. Lee Shargell, a former employee of NASA and an associate of Dr. Richard Boylan, reportedly confirmed that he had detected radio signals coming from the "companion." The signals were in the K-A and K-U high megahertz band. He predicted that, when Hale-Bopp comes close to Earth in the spring, the signals might affect radio and TV transmissions. (Editor's Comment: Here's a science project for our readers. Those of you who have PrimeStar or USBS receivers might want to aim your backyard dishes at Hale-Bopp some clear night in March 1997. If you pick up an alien sitcom, be sure to videotape it.) FUN UFO SITES Dr. Dale Sumbereru is another UFO buff running a good site for news. You'll find his page at this URL... http://www.tutorialsonline.com/alien-invasion.html Eric Salley has more pictures of the Comet Hale-Bopp. Contact him at sleekp19@mail.idt.net And be sure to ask for chartx.jpg (012) UFO Magazine now has their own Website. Check them out at http://www.ufomag.co.uk Don't forget our parent site, UFO INFO. There's plenty of good archive material there. You can reach it at this URL http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm And for back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, we're at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts See you next week! Merry Christmas from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." Search for other documents from or mentioning: masinaigan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:10:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:02:15 -0500 Subject: Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass ============== Travis Walton Case.4 -------------- Reprint of the 'NICAP' June '76 Philip Klass analysis of the "Walton Case" ============== The following is a reprint of the June 1976 issue of NICAP's *UFO INVESTIGATOR* titled, "Walton Abduction Cover-up Revealed." In it are the principal reasons NICAP felt that the Walton case was hoaxed. This particular analysis was performed by Philip Klass. The research of William S. Bickel, NICAP's regional investigator, had been previously printed in the January 1976 issue of the UFO Investigator on p. 3, titled, "Alleged Arizona Abduction." *** Begin page 1 - 6/76 NICAP (With interjected comments from this researcher) WALTON ABDUCTION COVER-UP REVEALED Philip J. Klass, author of UFO's EXPLAINED, agreed to give NICAP a complete interview regarding his finding concerning the Travis Walton Case. After six months of detailed research, Mr. Klass has valid data which indicates that information had been withheld intentionally by APRO (Aerial Phenomena Research Organization) which is based in Tucson, Arizona. ----------------------------- JC: Travis Walton talks about this in his "Fire in the Sky" book. Is there anyone still around from APRO to comment what was witheld and why? It is important to know what they had to say about it back then. I will discuss what Walton had to say in another post. ----------------------------- The National Enquirer was also aware that additional information about the alleged abduction was available but this has been withheld from the public. ----------------------------- JC: I would like to hear the same regarding the Enquirer. However, I also believe it is important to separate the newspaper's motives from the actual original facts of the case. If the newspaper turns out to have been trying "sell newspapers," this does not conclusively prove the reported incident was not a "real" occurrence. ----------------------------- NICAP ran an article covering the Travis Walton Case in the January 1976 issue of the UFO INVESTIGATOR. NICAP's consensus even at that time was that Walton and his associates were either involved in a hoax or that a psychological phenomenon was involved. It was decided that no further manpower would be allocated. This decision was based on NICAP's original data, and the knowledge that APRO was continuing the investigation. It has been a normal procedure in the past for the two organizations to exchange information on cases, and we felt that duplication of efforts was not necessary. A summary of the incident as it was presented by the news media is included for your information. ----------------------------- JC: It is to be noted that Mr. Klass did not state the "particular" news media to which he was referring. Were they all equally as accurate? Since various graphic details are alleged concerning Walton, I am surprised a "first hand report" from the sheriff's office wasn't used to provide the most accurate version of the story. ----------------------------- On the evening of Nov. 5, 1975, at approximately 6:15 p.m. MST, a crew of seven young woodcutters, headed by Michael Rogers was returning home. Rogers (age 28) was under contract to the U.S. Forest Service to thin out 1,277 acres of National Forest land near Turkey Springs. According to the story later told by Rogers, and other members of his crew (ages 17-25), they saw a UFO hovering nearby. They claim that Travis Walton jumped out of the moving car and walked/ran under the UFO, that he was "zapped" by an intense glowing beam from the UFO, and that the rest of the crew panicked and drove off, leaving their friend behind. A short time later, they claim, they returned to the spot to seek Travis but that he had disappeared - seemingly carried off by the UFO. It was not until more than two hours later that Rogers and his crew decided to report the incident to Under-Sheriff L.C. Ellison in nearby Heber, Ariz. ----------------------------- JC: If the last sentence was written in this manner to indicate that something was amiss in their taking two hours to report same to the sheriff, consideration has to be given to how long it took the men to arrive back in town from where they were. We also might ask ourselves; "If something of this sort actually happened to you, would you immediately go running to the police or would you perhaps be worried that they would think you were crazy?" It is certainly in the realm of possibility that a discussion of this sort may have occurred. I know I'd personally be thinking twice if it happened to me. ----------------------------- While Travis was missing, Rogers and the other five young men took a polygraph test, on Nov. 10, administered by C.E. Gilson of the Arizona Dept. of Public Safety of Phoenix. Five of the young men "passed" the examination but the results for one (Allen M. Dalis) were "inconclusive," according to Gilson. The reported test results have been widely interpreted as endorsing the authenticity of the alleged UFO abduction. ----------------------------- JC: If five men passed the test and one was "inconclusive" (N.B. Although some skeptics may disagree, if Dalis did not fail it but his test was simply "inconclusive," this researcher believes the interpretations were appropriate since the other five witnessed passed. One might ask oneself how that one person got the other five to imagine the craft hovering in the woods.) ----------------------------- Shortly after midnight on Nov. 11, Travis telephoned his sister, Mrs. Grant Neff, of Taylor, Ariz. (near Snowflake), from a phone booth in Heber, about 30 miles away. Mr. Neff and Travis' older brother Duane, who had come to Snowflake from his home in Phoenix shortly after the alleged UFO incident, both drove to Heber to pick up Travis. They reported finding him crumpled on the floor of the phone booth, and in a very "confused" mental state. A short time after returning Travis to his mother's home in Snowflake, Duane decided to drive Travis to Phoenix, reportedly to obtain medical assistance. Later that same day he was examined by two physicians at the request of APRO. On Feb. 7, 1976, almost three months after Travis' return, he and Duane took polygraph tests administered by George J. Pfeifer, then employed by Tom Ezell & Associates of Phoenix. According to published reports, both men passed the exam which involved many questions dealing with Travis' claim of having been abducted by a UFO. The widely publicized results of these test seem to confirm that such an incident actually occurred. In evaluating the authenticity of such a case, UFO researchers must concentrate on the validity of available data. After reading the reports published by other organizations and national newspapers, one would think that the Walton Case was a very strong one for the following reasons. IT WAS REPORTED THAT: 1. Walton passed the polygraph examination. 2. There were six other witnesses. Five of the six passed the polygraph examination. 3. Walton is of high character. 4. Walton and his family had very little prior interest in UFOs. Therefore, it would be unlikely that he would concoct a story relating to UFOs. 5. None of the other six witnesses had any motivation to participate in a hoax. End page 1 - NICAP - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Please note: There were no sources given or quotes from any papers detailing numbers 3, 4 & 5. Although I cannot say that these three did not appear somewhere, they did not appear in those accounts I personally read. This would be second-hand evidence if the people claimed to have made the quotes were not personally interviewed by phone, mail, whatever. If anyone has them, they should be presented for all to see. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - For the information of NICAP members, these points are discussed in detail. They give even stronger indication that NICAP's original conclusion is the correct one, i.e., the case is a hoax. WALTON'S POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION Mr. Klass revealed to NICAP that a lie detector test had been administered to Travis Walton. THREE MONTHS EARLIER, ON NOVEMBER 15, 1975. WALTON FAILED THE POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION AT THAT TIME. ----------------------------- JC: I just finished reading what Walton had to say about that test. The test was administed ten days after the occurrence of the claimed incident. He stated that it was taken while he was still in trauma from the incident and that he was told by various people around him, including a psychiatrist that the results of the test would be inconclusive if he was too emotionally agitated when he took the test. He took it anyway. If this were to be true, it would be fair reason why APRO and the National Enquirer witheld the evidence. Do any other polygraphers concur with this assessment? Did any other polygraphers examine the results of this test? There may be a sticky point here. However, with the other available information, including the new polygraph performed on three of the witnesses, I certainly would like more analysis and confirmation regarding this test before fully accepting it from only one polygrapher. (or is the test only permitted to be administered and analyzed by one person?) ----------------------------- This first test was given in the Sheraton Hotel in Scottsdale, Arizona on the afternoon of November 15. The arrangements for the examination were made by Mr. James Lorenzen, APRO's director, and the test was paid for by the National Enquirer. The examination was administered by Mr. John J. McCarthy, director of the Arizona Polygraph Laboratory in Phoenix. Mr. McCarthy's credentials are excellent. He was trained at the Army's polygraph school at Fort Gordon. Mr. McCarthy is a member of the American Polygraph Association and has been licensed by the State of Illinois since 1964. At present, Arizona does not require that polygraph examiners be licensed to practice in the state. The examiner reported his findings as instructed to the National Enquirer and Dr. James Harder, APRO's director of research, immediately upon the completion of the test taken by Walton. Dr. Harder reported that information to APRO's James Lorenzen. McCarthy was further instructed to send a written report to the National Enquirer. The Enquirer instructed McCarthy not to reveal that he had tested Walton. An excerpt from the report which was sent is, "Attempting to perpetrate a UFO hoax, and that he has not been on any spacecraft." The report further stated that Travis Walton had tried unsuccessfully to distort his respiration pattern in an attempt to deceive the examiner. However, he was unsuccessful. APRO published a full account of the Travis Walton case in their November 1975 newsletter which included the events that had transpired during the week following Travis' return through November 16. No mention of the November 15 lie detector test was included. Mr. Klass has hard physical evidence in his possession, which has been checked by NICAP, that Mr. McCarthy did test Travis Walton on November 15, 1975, and that Walton failed the test. The evidence includes such documents as: 1. The polygraph examination statement of consent dated Nov. 15, 1975 and signed by Travis Walton. 2. McCarthy's written report to the National Enquirer dated Nov. 16, 1975 which includes his conclusion that the UFO account was a hoax. ----------------------------- JC: Again, with the new evidence at hand, I believe the original polygraph examination given by Mr. McCarthy, along with his original statement, literally scream out to be reexamined by other polygraphers. The question is, with the new evidence at hand: "Will a majority of polygraphers agree after examining the data in that test, that the Walton case was definitely a hoax?" Until this is done, the Walton case cannot be completely closed. ----------------------------- 3. The voucher receipt from the National Enquirer payable to McCarthy's Arizona Polygraph Laboratory dated Jan. 14, 1976, for "Travis Walton UFO Incident." 4. Agreement to conduct test and supply report to National Enquirer. This statement is dated Feb. 15, 1976 rather than Nov. 15, 1975. This is clearly a typographical error. Three months after Travis Walton failed the first polygraph exam, he took another one administered by George J. Pfeifer, an examiner with only two years' experience, who was employed by Tom Ezell Associates of Phoenix. ----------------------------- JC: The polygrapher who administered the new test cannot be accused of the same limited experience. ----------------------------- The results of this test were widely publicized because he seemingly passed the test with flying colors. Mr. Klass discovered that Travis Walton dictated the questions that he wanted to be asked. ----------------------------- JC: Perhaps a good point to consider is "Did Walton dictate all the questions or just some of them." By examining the questions he asked, one might possibly determine a motive for same. Was Walton trying to trick us with the questions or was he trying to make sure the examiner, this time, asked questions which covered the topic more completely, leaving no room for doubt. An examination of the questions Walton requested to be asked might shed some light on this. I was wondering if those questions were ever printed for the public to see? Perhaps they were in the other books I will be reading in the near future. I will report on same. ----------------------------- Mr. Pfeifer complied with Walton's request. To check the validity of the method of testing, the president of Tom Ezell Associates, Mr. Tom Ezell, was contacted. He stated that it is perfectly proper for the sponsor of a test (APRO) to indicate the areas which should be explored. However, Mr. Ezell in later correspondence with Mr. Klass stated, "Because of the dictation of questions to be asked, this test should be invalidated." he further stated that after examining the Travis Walton charts, "The reactions on the charts, to my way of interpretation, would not be readable. You would not be able to say if he (Travis Walton) is telling the truth or if he's lying." JC: I was wondering whether Mr. Ezell, if he is still alive, would care to expound on this a little further. Why was this so? Exactly what was it about the test that made it inconclusive? Why did he feel it was done on purpose? Was it impossible that it could be attributed to major trauma from the incident? If this has already been printed somewhere I will attempt to find it and report on same. CORROBORATING WITNESSES' POLYGRAPH EXAMINATIONS As reported in the January 1976 issue of the UFO INVESTIGATOR, the polygraph exam given to the other alleged witnesses was designed to determine whether or not Walton might be the victim of foul-play instigated by his associates. Three of the four relevant questions asked during the test dealt entirely with this issue. The test was given by C.E. Gilson, an examiner with five years' experience. His statement to Mr. Klass was, "That was our sole purpose . . . to determine whether or not there had been a crime committed." The single question about the UFO was added at the request of Sheriff Gillespie. Gilson stressed . . . "That one question does not make it a valid test as far as verifying the UFO incident." ----------------------------- JC: And so we have the new test, performed on Walton, Rogers and Dalis, which claims to clarify same. ----------------------------- WALTON'S CHARACTER In the evaluation of witness testimony, the credibility of the witness must also be evaluated. On May 5, 1971 Travis Walton and Charles Rogers pleaded guilty to first degree burglary and forgery charges. (Charles Rogers is a younger brother of Michael Rogers, who was also involved in the UFO incident.) This information was revealed by Travis Walton himself during a preliminary discussion with the polygraph examiner, Mr. McCarthy, and confirmed by state authorities. ----------------------------- JC: What is interesting here is that Walton made absolutely no attempt to hide this. One could make the case that Walton knew he would be found out anyway and decided to tell the polygrapher up front. Likewise, one could make a case stating that Walton was just trying to be totally truthful with the polygrapher so that he would be believed in the end. Obviously, these two things cancel each other out. No proper conclusion can be drawn from either. ----------------------------- The young men agreed to make restitution of the funds and were placed on a two year probation. Arizona law provides that if probation is fulfilled satisfactorily the party may later return and ask the Court to expunge the record. Both of the boys retracted their original pleas after the completion of the probation period. At the time of the report there is no indication that Walton was continuing his youthful misbehavior. ----------------------------- JC: This I find "interesting." After smearing Walton's character with information that was legally wiped from the record by Arizona law and for which Mr. Klass could have possibly been brought up on charges (at least in Arizona) for displaying same, Mr. Klass then tells us that "At the time of the report there is no indication that Walton was continuing his youthful misbehavior." In a court of law, the judge would tell the jury to strike that remark from the record. Of course, it is too late because they already heard it. Attempting to reconvict a man in the present for something he did in his youth and paid his price for certainly did not prove the case for the skeptics. To suggest that it would be likely that Walton would do this behavior again is to attempt to convict a person without fair trial. Another question that arises: "Is it fair to imply that Mike Rogers is guilty of his brother's offense because (it runs in the family?)." That appears to be what Mr. Klass has insinuated. If Mr. Klass *has* insinuated this, I hope no one in his family is known to be a liar or, using the same logic, he himself would be judged likely to follow suit. This might therefore disqualify his entire study regarding this case. I have great faith most of us, including Mr. Klass, can see how ridiculous this would be. ----------------------------- PRIOR INTEREST IN UFOs Interest in UFOs does not prohibit the interested party from having a valid sighting. However, in a large majority of hoax reports, prior interest is usually present. ----------------------------- JC: It might likewise be pointed out that in a large majority of reports where certain skeptical researchers have a stake in proving their case, the claimant's character has been vigorously attacked, sometimes to the point of absurdity by the skeptic. Does this prove that *all* skeptics who point out the claimant's character flaws are actually attempting to prove their point by any means they possibly can? Hardly. Likewise, the innuendo in Mr. Klass' last sentence is meaningless to this analysis, as it in no way proves Walton hoaxed his case. ----------------------------- It has been reported elsewhere that Walton had little or no prior interest in the field. ----------------------------- JC: What does this have to do with the facts of the case? Was it reported by Mr. Walton, his family, the Sheriff or are these rather the second-hand accounts of the news media? First-hand accounts should supersede all other accounts. Second-hand accounts are......."second-hand" accounts. ----------------------------- Dr. Howard Kandell, one of the two physicians who examined Walton at APRO's request was asked if the Waltons had indicated any prior interest in UFOs. Kendall replied: "They admitted to that freely, that he (Travis) was a 'UFO Freak' so to speak . . ." He had made remarks that if he ever saw one, he'd like to go aboard. ----------------------------- JC: What the exact definition of "UFO FREAK"? Does it mean Walton was obsessed with UFOs? Was he known to constantly give false information about cases or was he just highly interested in them? Are we sure this is enough reason to say that what Walton and crew said occurred, didn't occur? ----------------------------- Dr. Jean Rosenbaum, a psychiatrist who examined Walton was asked whether he had mentioned any prior interest in UFOs. He replied, "Everybody in the family claimed that they had seen them (UFOs) . . . Travis has been preoccupied with this almost all of his life . . . ----------------------------- JC: So, obviously we are to infer that they are all nuts, are lying or fantasizing and therefore, it's impossible that anything they say could have happened. ----------------------------- then he made the comment to his mother just prior to this incident that if he was ever abducted by a UFO, she was not to worry because he'd be all right." Duane Walton has stated that he and Travis had often discussed the possibility of getting a ride on a UFO. ----------------------------- JC: As suspicious as this at first sounds, another interesting question that comes to mind is: "Was this the only time he ever said this to his mother or to others in his family? To me it sounds as though he has said this before. If he had, this would remove some of the premeditation we all see in Walton's above statement. ----------------------------- MOTIVATION OF THE SIX WITNESSES It has been stated that there was no motivation, other than possible friendship for the other six witnesses to corroborate Walton's story if it were not true. ----------------------------- JC: Again, exactly who stated this? ----------------------------- Investigation has revealed a strong financial possible motive for Mike Rogers and the other five crew members to perpetrate a hoax. Mike Rogers had submitted a bid in the spring of 1974 to the U.S. Forest Service for a timber thinning operation of 1,277 acres of land in a National Forest, located in the Apache-Sitgreaves area. His bid was accepted and was 27% under the mid-figure submitted by the other companies. By the following summer (1975) it was clear to Rogers that he had grossly underestimated the magnitude of the job and could not complete it on time. He applied for an extension which was granted but he was penalized $1.00 per acre for all work performed after the expiration of the original contract date. The new work completion deadline was November 10, 1975. As the new deadline approached, it became clear that once again, they could not possibly complete the work by that time and he would have to ask for another extension that would result in another pay cut. More serious, the Forest Service was withholding 10 percent of the payments until the job was done. With winter at hand, Rogers could not finish until the next spring to collect these funds. The alleged UFO incident gave Rogers a legal basis for terminating his money-losing contract on the ground that his crew would not return to the work site out of fear, allowing Rogers to collect the withheld funds and pay his crew. ----------------------------- JC: If possible, I will have comments on this as well. ----------------------------- SUMMARY The reaction of the Travis Walton family when informed that he had been "zapped" away on a UFO provides a valuable measure of whether they had prior knowledge of a planned hoax. If they believed that the incident actually took place, they would realize that they might never see Travis again. Troopers from the Navajo County Sheriff's Department assembled late on the night of November 5 and returned to the alleged site to search for Travis. It was not until several hours after midnight on Nov. 6 that the group then proceeded to inform Travis' mother that her son could not be found. One member of the trooper informed Mr. Klass that when he explained the horrible fate of her son, she simply replied, "I'm not surprised." Mrs. Kellet suggested to the law enforcement officials that the search be abandoned, saying, "I just don't think there's any use of looking any further . . . I don't think he's on this earth." Travis' brother, Duane, stated that he would stay on the site and wait because they always return their victims to the same spot. At no time during the entire episode did the family or crew members show or express any concern for his well being. Mr. Klass stated that, "One possible explanation for the reaction of Rogers and the members of his family is that they knew the incident was a hoax and that Travis was safe in a terrestrial hideout, rather than aboard an extraterrestrial spacecraft that might be taking him to a distant world from which he might never return." ----------------------------- JC: So how do we explain the 2/93 polygraph test results on Rogers? Are we saying only members of his family knew about the hoax? Which members? Again, it is important to review all the questions asked the crew on the original test. ----------------------------- On November 8, while Travis was "still missing," Duane said he was not at all concerned for his brother's safety. Duane said he regretted that "I haven't been able to experience the same thing." ----------------------------- JC: I have had several people say I know this identical thing to me. It simply proves there are other people who haven't thought as deeply into the implications of this whole thing as others. I haven't read any cases where the person wasn't returned either. I'd never say what Duane said, but it doesn't mean someone else (in this case, Duane) wouldn't. ----------------------------- In any scientific investigation, all data must be considered. Any organization or corporation reporting on investigations has the responsibility to disclose all facts to its readers . . . not just the information which supports a preconceived position. ----------------------------- JC: Absolutely correct. However, this still does not prove Walton's case didn't happen as stated. ----------------------------- When the strengths and weaknesses of the Walton Case are evaluated, it seems that the indications are that a hoax has been perpetrated. NICAP members now have additional data at their disposal and can reach their own conclusions. ----------------------------- JC: With the new polygraph data, and the fact that the 1975 FOIA-verified SAC base visits time-wise occurred immediately around the Walton incident, I am not nearly as certain as I was before, but I shall read further and report on same. ----------------------------- Respectfully submitted, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 14:12:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:41:21 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > Of all the thousands and thousands of Truman documents, the signature > known to be genuine comes from a short letter from President Truman to > Dr. Bush, dated October 1, 1947 - one week after the alleged Truman > Memorandum of September 24, 1947. Interesting that they were dated only > a week apart and that the known real signature was also addressed to an > alleged MJ-12 member. Dr. Vannevar Bush has been a focus of intense > research by many ufologists since the late 70s and the emergence of the > Wilbur Smith memo. > > Assuming that the two signatures have to be identical is a false > assumption. As a matter of fact, they are not identical. Supporters of > MJ-12 base their arguments on an incorrect argument. What can be > demonstrated and shown is whether or not the two signature samples share > a common ancestor. Dr. Willy Smith, UNICAT Project, published his > analysis demonstrating that both the known real signature and the > alleged Truman memorandum signature do indeed share a common ancestor. > Since we know that the Oct. 1, 1947 signature is a genuine signature, > the Truman signature of the alleged Truman/Forrestal memo has to be a > copy of the original. That makes the entire memo bogus. The step-by-step > analysis was published in JUST CAUSE, No. 27, March 1991. I suggest you > find a copy and read it. You won't find it in Friedman's new book. On > several occasions on this list I have asked Friedman about it. To this > date he has yet to respond to the above damming evidence that shows the > alleged Truman/Forrestal memorandum to be bogus. I have also recently > spoken to Dr. Willy Smith. He tells me that since the publication of his > analysis in JUST CAUSE in 1991, the analysis has never been addressed by > Friedman. > Ed Stewart > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com Ed, I am very interested in the copy of Just Cause you mentioned. Could you please be so kind as to mail me a copy? If it is possible for you to do this, please respond to the group and I will e-mail you my snail mail address. Do we know that Mr. Klass started with the date that the memo was supposedly written in the archives? If he didn't, it doesn't solve how he found the signature. Isn't it important to find out who faked the document(IF it was faked)? If the document is fraudulent, it doesn't make the document less important. Obviously, whoever may have faked the document would have to take a great deal of time doing it. Just some thoughts. Regards, Scott K. Hale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Saudi Jetliner Encounter From: FS337211@Sol.YorkU.CA Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 16:06:23 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:40:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Saudi Jetliner Encounter > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:01:51 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: FBI Says Meteorite! <snip> > ``We have spoken to meteorologists who said they were > expecting heavy meteor activity for a couple of days that would > in fact be reaching its peak today,'' a spokesman for James > Kallstrom, head of the FBI's New York office, said. <snip> Although "meteor" makes up part of the word meteorologist and "showers" are things meteorologists forcast, meteor showers are something which astronomers rather than weather experts should know more about. Did the FBI investigators consult any astronomers too? > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:13:01 -0600 (CST) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Saudi Jetliner Encounters UFO Over Long Island <snip> > Does anybody know about this supposed "meteor shower" that keeps resulting > in people seeing green streaks outside Kennedy airport? This is the second > one since the TWA incident!!!! I can't find my Dec. "Astronomy" magazine, > but I think the Geminids already peaked, did they not? <snip> Although the Geminid meteor shower lasts for about 3 days (from the initial 1/4 peak activity level to the last) centered on December 13, it is likely from the description given of the object seen by the Saudi 747 crew that it was not a typical Geminid meteor but could have been one of the less frequent and often much brighter sporadic meteors which are not associated with any meteor shower. Meteors could also be detected by radar (electromagnetic waves) since radio waves can reflect off the ionized trails left by the meteor as it burns up in the Earth's atmosphere. If the Kennedy airport radars can pick up objects burning up about 90 kilometers overhead and travelling about 126,000 km/hr. (the average speed of a Geminid meteor), then the object was very likely a meteor. Nick Balaskas Search for other documents from or mentioning: fs337211 | rschatte |
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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:59:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 02:00:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:10:03 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass > > ============== > Travis Walton Case.4 > -------------- > Reprint of the 'NICAP' June '76 > Philip Klass analysis of the "Walton Case" > ============== > > The following is a reprint of the June 1976 issue of NICAP's *UFO > INVESTIGATOR* titled, "Walton Abduction Cover-up Revealed." In it are the > principal reasons NICAP felt that the Walton case was hoaxed. This > particular analysis was performed by Philip Klass. The research of William > S. Bickel, NICAP's regional investigator, had been previously printed in the > January 1976 issue of the UFO Investigator on p. 3, titled, "Alleged Arizona > Abduction." > > *** > > Begin page 1 - 6/76 NICAP (With interjected comments from this researcher) > > WALTON ABDUCTION COVER-UP REVEALED > > Philip J. Klass, author of UFO's EXPLAINED, agreed to give NICAP a complete > interview regarding his finding concerning the Travis Walton Case. After > six months of detailed research, Mr. Klass has valid data which indicates > that information had been withheld intentionally by APRO (Aerial Phenomena > Research Organization) which is based in Tucson, Arizona. > ----------------------------- >snip< body removed see original letter > > Respectfully submitted, > Jerry Cohen > > E-mail: rjcohen@li.net > > _______________________________________________ > You may find this of interest for another perspective on the Travis Walton case please read Coral and Jim Lorenzens account in "Abducted - Confrontations with Beings From Outer Space" 1977 Berkley Medallion Books, Chapter IV The Walton Affair pp 80-113. In this chapter you will find a description of the anomalous behaviour and deceptions of Phillip Klass with regard to this case. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:16:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 02:02:53 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 In a message dated 96-12-16 14:42:05 EST, Stan Friedma wrote: >Re Kevins comments: I am sorry I didn't put (grin) after my comment which >was not an allegation about you and Ed and disinformation. This not the first time that you have thrown this particular allegation. Nor is it the first time you have retracted within days. Yes, you should have put a grin after. >I would be interested in knowing how you know that Ike knew all about what >was in the attachments to the MJ-12 Briefing especially those dated 30 June >1952, 31 January 1948, 31 January 1949 and why you think he would have had >perfect recall for them but needed There is no evidence presented that suggests there was anything in the tabs that Eisenhower didn't already know. In fact, there is no evidence that there is anything at all in the tabs. This argument is ridiculous since you have failed to prove the document authentic. In fact, the evidence suggests that it is faked. >As you know Berliner interviewed Brazel. He has stated that Brazel used the >n word. I know no such thing. In fact, I was the one who introduced Berliner to Brazel and was there for the entire interview. Brazel never said any such thing. In fact, when I talked to him on December 5, 1992 to clarify the situation, he told me that none of the people in that contingent (that is, those who came to the ranch to get his debris) was black. So the situation is this. I was there and didn't hear it said. Brazel denies he said it. Shirley Brazel who was there denies he said it. He has never said it to anyone else who interviewed him. So, the question remains-why did you alter the interview I conducted to reflect a situation that didn't exist? >Obviously you don't have a complete dossier on highly classified activities >at Area 51, Groom Lake, S-4. I noted the size because it is not as if we were >talking about a few square miles that one can go into and check.None of us >know what all went on there then, or goes on there today. But that isn't the question. The question is, do you have any evidence, other than your quiet source (whose testimony you don't believe and retracted in less than 24 hours) that there was a facility called Area 51 prior to 1954? Any evidence at all? Other than the Operations Manual? >Need I add that cicumstantial evidence is the basis for most court >convictions?? So let's have some evidence that can be checked. You fail to provide it. >I will repeat I do not have and cannot get Code word documents about MJ-12 >or UFOs or much of anything else. All the original MJ-12 guys are long since >dead. None can be interviewed for TV. Stan Friedman What is interesting here is that not a single shred of evidence has been offered. There is nothing to substantiate the MJ-12 documents other than the documents themselves. They are riddled with mistakes and anachronisms. The classifications on them are wrong based on the regulations in effect at the time they produced. They reflect someone who is only maginally familiar with government and military regulations. The Truman memo was typed on a typewriter that didn't exist in 1947, and so on and so on. The questions have been posed but the answers have not been offered. What conclusions can we draw? KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 {67} United Kingdom UFO Network From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:58:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:58:13 -0500 Subject: {67} United Kingdom UFO Network Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:38:13 +0000 Reply-To: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Sender: UFO The Unidentified Flying Objects Network <UFO@SJUVM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Organization: Federation Subject: {67} United Kingdom UFO Network To: Multiple recipients of list UFO <UFO@SJUVM.STJOHNS.EDU> ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' December 16th, 1996 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K Issue 67 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ {67} UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK --=====================_850823893==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="UK UFO 67.txt" Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:38:13 +0000 Reply-To: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Sender: UFO The Unidentified Flying Objects Network <UFO@SJUVM.STJOHNS.EDU> From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Organization: Federation Subject: {67} - United Kingdom UFO Network To: Multiple recipients of list UFO <UFO@SJUVM.STJOHNS.EDU> ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' December 16th, 1996 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K Issue 67 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ {67} UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK United Kingdom News [1] Soccer chief who saw UFO is under the moon [2] UFO me a million [3] UFO left soldier in a trance [4] Spotters in the Warton area? [5] Defence Minister is open-minded on Alien visits to Earth [6] British Stealth - a report World News [1] Russians quest for Mars lasts 75 minutes as rocket misfires [2] The world's oldest astronaut blasts off into space tomorrow [3] Ian Robinson on the history of Unidentified Flying Objects [4] Aliens [5] Station's first module assembled, ready for testing [6] The ordeal of John Ford [7] Mozart breaks the light barrier [8] Israeli Scientists: Star collision caused Dinosaur extinction [9] Ice on Earth's Moon? Pentagon to report findings [10] Ice 'most likely' the stuff in Moon crater [11] NASA launches Mars probe [12] Aliens being discriminated against, says comic-book publisher [13] Science Minister opens the family X-Files [14] Space radar unearths secrets of the ancient Nile [15] New theory revises star's ages [16] Crater of water brings cheer Editorial ----------- Happy Christmas From all the staff here at the United Kingdom UFO Network may we wish you all, no matter where you are in the world a very HAPPY CHRISTMAS. Reminder May I remind all subscribers to take note of the information paragraph at the end of the e-zine. Post all reports etc to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Post all comments on e-zine contents to: feedback@nolimits.demon.co.uk Post all irc inquiries to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk Please do not post to the St Johns List Server address as mail may get lost. IRC Things have now changed slightly as some of you will be aware with our weekly irc (internet relay chat) meetings. Thanks to Crow our irc advisor for the following information: We now have our very own IRC DNS name for UFO so anyone who wants to join our meetings from anywhere in the world can now just type: /server ufo.ultranet.org This will now connect them to a random ultranet server, so it will be very easy for people to remember and as easy as A,B,C for newbies or people who cannot remember or do not know the latest server names. For advice on connecting to our weekly meetings via the irc please send mail to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk Radio Documentary UK.UFO.NW have been contacted by Nik Rawlinson who is an Independent Broadcaster. Nik is in the process of putting together a radio documentary on the UFO subject and has requested the help of all subscribers to the uk.ufo.nw e-zine. Nik sent the staff here an exclusive demonstration tape of the way the program is likely to be put together, but he needs your help. The demo was very well done and has impressive content. Nik has asked for you to send him your idea's of what you think should go into a radio UFO documentary. So get your thinking caps on. It doesn't matter where you are in the world send your idea's to Nik at the following address: nik@nikraw.demon.co.uk As soon as we have further details regarding the broadcasting of the documentary, we'll be sure to let you know. [U1]****** Source: The Express newspaper Date: October 1996 Soccer chief who saw UFO is under the moon By Nigel Bunyan A millionaire soccer club chairman threatened to resign yesterday after being "publicly humiliated" over his bizarre account of a UFO sighting. For 20 years Michael Knighton, 45, who owns 90 per cent of Carlisle United, thought he had kept the lid on the most astonishing event of his life. True, he and his wife, Rosemary, had watched an apparently alien craft perform a range of "impossible" aerogymnastics as they set off from their Yorkshire home one afternoon in 1976. And, also true, as the glowing UFO disappeared into the stratosphere, he believed he had received a telepathic message urging him: "Don't be afraid, Michael." But, as a businessman, he realised how he might be treated if the press ever got hold of the story. Unfortunately for Mr Knighton, he hinted at his close encounter while at a meeting of the Aetherius Society, an organisation dedicated to studying metaphysics. A local reporter questioned him in more detail and a front-page report duly appeared in the West Cumbrian News and Star under the heading, "Knighton: Aliens Spoke To Me." Mr Knighton was not so much glowing as incandescent. Despite the newspaper's assertion that he was sufficiently co-operative to draw a sketch of the craft in the reporters notebook, he maintains that the disclosure was made during an off-the-record conversation. "I feel deeply betrayed," he said. "This was a very private story and I made it perfectly clear to the reporter that it was not for publication. "The damage has been done now and so I've decided to resign at the end of the season. I have a nine-year-old son and it's not fair for him to be ridiculed." He still cannot explain his "wonderful" UFO experience. "It was quite extraordinary," he said. "This object fell out of the sky, started off as a tiny dot like a shooting star but it was unbelievable. "It changed from a inverted V to a huge metallic disc the size of half a football pitch. We watched it perform the most unbelievable aerobatics in silence." Mr Knighton and his wife watched the display for 30 minutes, watching with "two men walking their dog". Although they later read reports of a similar sighting, they decided against informing the authorities. "My wife was quite overawed by what we saw and she would not like to experience it again. I was totally enthralled." The News and Star has now followed its "Alien speak" story with a campaign to persuade Mr Knighton to stay. In a front-page article, Keith Sutton, the editor, tendered an "unreserved" apology. He said: "Just because Michael Knighton has seen a UFO doesn't disqualify him from being a football club chairman." Last night Mr Knighton said he would reconsider his decision. "Perhaps it has been an overreaction on my part, which is a bad sign. I don't get uptight about things but I did feel betrayed," he said. Mr Knighton hinted that he might stay as chairman but appoint a new chief executive. [U2]****** Source: News Of The World newspaper Date: 1st December 1996 UFO me a million Man tells insurers: I had close encounter of the third party kind By Ian Edmonson A top insurance company is to boldly go where no other has gone before - considering a 1 million pounds Stirling payout to a man who claims he was abducted by aliens. UFO fanatic Joseph Carpenter is over the moon that the City moneymen are taking him seriously. The 23-year-old electrician from Edmonton, North London, bought the 102 pounds and 50 pence Stirling policy in October to guard against kidnap by visitors from outer space. Shining Just one month later Joseph was filling in his claim form. And he swears he has video proof. Now his insurance company GRIP have employed scientists to verify his X Files-style report. "I have camcorder footage of a triangular craft shining a light down on me and taking me off the ground," claimed Joseph. "And I've also got DNA evidence found on the ship. It's like a claw and definately not of this Earth. It all happened while I was UFO spotting in at Swindon, Wiltshire, near a military base. "I got the policy as I'm a firm believer in unidentified flying objects and wanted to put my money where my mouth is." The insurance company have admitted they initially offered alien cover as a stunt, along with protection against Bobbitting (amputation of a man's private parts by his enraged spouse) and virgin birth. Feeble But now director Simon Burgess admits: "Mr Carpenter's claim is being treated very seriously. We didn't think anyone would go this far. "The information is now being assessed by a major British company and evidence offered by the policyholder is under investigation by a Cambridge college. "The underwriters have set aside reserves sufficient to meet the full claim. "We set out with a policy to part feeble-minded people from their cash-now it looks like it may backfire." But Joseph could have trouble getting insured next year-after blowing his no claims bonus the premium will sky-rocket... Saucer Secret 1 - Rocker Dave Davies of Sixties star band The Kinks claims he was snatched by aliens in 1982 while touring America. "My lower body went numb," he recalled. "Then I heard voices, intelligences from another planet, monitoring events on Earth. They showed me their craft." Saucer Secret 2 - Late one summer night Rosalind Reynolds, 22, was driving from Clacton, Essex, when bright horseshoe-shaped lights came racing towards her. That's all she could remember until, under hypnosis, she told how aliens abducted her and experimented on her. She still has nightmares. Saucer Secret 3 - Labourer Antonio Villas-Boas, 23, of Sao Francisco de Sale in Brazil, claims he was beamed up to a pear-shaped spaceship where aliens took up a blood sample then forced him to bed a female humanoid. Doctors later found scars on him, similar to radiation poisoning symptoms. [U3]****** Source: Daily Express newspaper Date: Tuesday 3rd December 1996 UFO left soldier in a trance A soldier under hypnosis has recalled how he was left dazed and terrified by a UFO. News of the alleged incident, which happened while he was on night exercise on Salisbury Plain with five comrades, has just been revealed. Put into a trance at the request of close encounter sleuths from the magazine UFO Reality, he told how the party was zapped by beams of light from a mysterious black triangular aircraft. The alleged sighting, in 1990, happened in a part of the area said to house a secret Ministry of Defence compound. Investigators believe it could have been connected with top secret technology rather than an alien craft. [U4]****** From: Paul Jones <paul@termcon.demon.co.uk> Source: mil-spotters <mil-spotters@tempest.dial.pipex.net> Date: Friday 6th December 1996 Spotters in the Warton area? ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Roland Hamblin 01932 824318 <roland.hamblin@gecm.com> Subject: Re: Spotters in the Warton area? To: mil-spotters <mil-spotters@tempest.dial.pipex.net> Further to my recent request for help concerning unusual happenings in the North West I thought that you may wish to read the following response from an observer in Lancashire. Can anyone throw any light on the event......I have ruled out Insomniac Ninja Paragliders [INPs] and Kamikaze refuelling ops,together with mil exercises,..so what's left...any ideas? At 1810 gmt on Friday 22nd November a man out walking his dog witnessed the following events... He noticed aircraft lights moving slowly from north to south,and that the a/c had only 2 lights that were yellowish in colour rather than the usual brilliant white lights that one normally sees. He continues..'' I noticed that these lights were not front and rear but were spaced in such a way that I concluded that it must have a light on each wing.The body of the aircraft was completely invisible because it was pitch dark.No strobe light of any description was visible. I would have thought no more of it , but then I noticed three sets of aircraft lights approaching from the North West.I was surprised because of the seeming close proximity to each other.They were not in any formation I could discern but it was apparent that civilian aircraft would not be so close.I noticed that the arrangement of lights did give them a pronounced triangular shape , however the colour of the lights seemed to conform to those you normally see on aircraft when viewed at night...ie..white red and green with of course the flashing strobe. I thought that perhaps they were Tornados with their wings in the swept back position due to the shape outlined by the lights but dismissed this because they appeared to be too slow,although travelling much faster than the first plane I had spotted..This was to the south of me now.I then observed the three aircraft change course quite radically as if they were looking for and had spotted the first a/c.They caught it up and began to circle it ,but at some distance. Meanwhile for the first time I heard a/c noise.This attracted my attention to the East where I saw another a/c approaching and making a bee line,again for the first plane.I realised that while all this was going on I never heard a whisper of engine noise ,and yet the size of the second lot of a/c was such that they were pretty low , or or extremely huge! The engines I could now hear were from the a/c just now entering the area,..it was prop driven but not a light a/c.The engines had that throaty hum of a multi engined cargo plane. When I turned south again I saw the first a/c disappear into cloud followed by the second lot which had intercepted it.With that I gave up observing and returned home. Reflecting on the incident later I concluded that I had witnessed some military exercise in which a target plane [which might explain the minimum lighting]was intercepted using a group of fighters and a radar specialist equiped plane. The only thing that gives it a bit of mystery is the fact that I didnt hear the engines and yet I should have done because they were not above the cloud base,which from memory wasn't all that great that night...and if these were at a great altitude they were certainly bigger than Jumbos!Also I heard the last plane quite clearly and from a long way off and it appeared to be at the same altitude. Then there was the pronounced triangular pattern to the lights,could this be what people are seeing?" Location...Oswaldtwistle.Lancs [about 20 miles East of Warton.] In a follow up to the above, I thought that some of you may be interested in the following which I received from a friend:- 1 A small 30ft black triangular craft has been seen by members of the public on the ground at WARTON (British Aerospace) 2 It is believed that it is a prototype UAV, designated HALO and can perform up to 9G turns. 3 It has been seen by numerous people in the Meols Cop, Banks and Hesketh Bank areas north of Southport. 4 Test flights are accompanied by a tornado, callsign "Tarnish 3" 5 A D-Notice has been served on the BBC warning it NOT to report on Britains Stealth program. 6 A larger triangular craft is in operation over Britain and has been seen at Boscombe Down. I would be interested if anyone has any comments about the above. Roland [U5]****** Source: The People newspaper Date: 10th November 1996 DEFENCE MINISTER IS OPEN-MINDED ON ALIEN VISITS TO EARTH RAF In X-File Alert!; BYLINE: Nigel Nelson Aliens from outer space may be visiting Britain, the Government has sensationally admitted. In an incredible letter obtained by The People, Defence Minister Earl Frederick Howe reveals that ALL RAF station commanders are under orders to report UFO sightings. And he adds: "So far as the existence of extraterrestrial lifeforms is concerned we remain open-minded." The letter was sent to Don Valley Labour MP Martin Redmond, who is trying to break the MoD's veil of secrecy over flying saucers. He is concerned about a UFO with a red and green rotating light that appeared over East Anglia last month. It was tracked by radar at RAF Neatishead and RAF Northwood for several hours as it hovered in the sky before flying 50 miles down the coast. It was also spotted by the crews of a tanker and civilian plane, while a video - now in the MoD's hands - was taken by police. "It's incredible no aircraft were scrambled when a target was picked up so close to the coast," Mr Redmond told Defence Secretary Michael Portillo. "This raises questions on the way we police the UK Air Defence Region." Earl Howe replied that the RAF does not respond unless there is evidence UK air space has been "compromised". He added: "To date no sighting has provided such evidence. "We do not investigate further or provide an explanation for what might have been observed." Mr Redmond is accusing the Government of covering up information on UFOs and says if there is no defence threat, there is no excuse for secrecy either. "The answers I've been given lead me to think there is something more to this," added the MP. "The only thing I know for sure is this whole issue is shrouded in secrecy." Last week Defence Minister Nicholas Soames refused to reveal how many UFOs RAF pilots have spotted since 1966. He said the information would cost too much to obtain. But he added: "Unidentified contacts penetrating UK airspace are identified by all available means, including interception." [U5]****** uk.ufo.nw says: Here is a little more to wet your appetite. From: "Terry Colvin" <colvint@fhu.disa.mil> Date: 4th December 1996 British Stealth - a report ____________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:46:30 -0100 To: skunk-works@gaia.ucs.orst.edu From: John Burtenshaw <jburtens@bournemouth.ac.uk> Subject: British Stealth - a report. [snip] There appears to be something strange flying around North West England.. so strange that the folks who live on the Lancashire coast are winding themselves into a frenzy over sightings..."UFO" sightings. Now we all know this can't be, but...there is substance in the various reports, and they all seem to indicate a dark triangular shape, with the ability to hover, and climb away at high speed. [snip] Now here is what I found on dejanews: [begins] Subject: Black Triangle Conspiracy From: Timothy Waters <tim@frwaters.demon.co.uk> Date: 1996/11/30 Newsgroups: alt.alien.research I have just finished reading a british UFO magazine Called UFO Reality and would like to bring a small article to your attention concerning The Black Triangle UFO's the article is as follows A top BBC executive let slip recently that there is a D-Notice on media reporting of the so called 'Black Triangle'. The executive- who cannot be named is the former producer of a very popular BBC science program. He told one of our team that the black triangular 'craft' first witnessed by hundreds in the Hudson Valley region of the United States(1988/1989) then by thousands in belgium (1989/90) and more recently by thousands more in britain, has been "heavely D-Noticed" by the government. For this reason the BBC will not be reporting on the enigmatic craft, no matter how many reports they recieve. According to the former 'science program' producer the reason the government has seen fit to slap a restrictive notice on reporting of the triangle is because so far as the goverment has secretly informed the BBC the craft is part of a new secret military project, and as such must be protected under the secrecy laws. If this is the case, however, it surely begs the question: If the so called Black Triangle is a secret military aircraft, then what is it doing hovering over residential areas and frightening people half to death. Like the BBC licensing agenda something somewhere simply does not add up... [W1]****** Source: The Express newspaper Date: Monday 18th November 1996 Mission Impossible Russians quest for Mars last 75 minutes as rocket misfires by John Ingham Russia joined the space race for Mars yesterday - and promptly lost. Within minutes of blast-off on the 48 million-mile quest to find new life on the planet, the Mars 96 spacecraft shot out of control into the Earth's orbit when the fourth stage of its launch rocket misfired. And with it went 300 million pounds [sterling] of technology and 10 years hard work by scientists, some of them British. Mars 96 is now expected to burn up on its return to Earth in 30 days, instead of coming back in 10 months with vital information about the Red Planet. There were fears last night that bits of the spacecraft could crash to Earth and put people at risk. The craft's thermoelectric probes are powered by radioactive plutonium which could survive reentry into the Earth's atmosphere. Just one particle of the dust would be enough to cause cancer. John Pike, Washington-based director of the Space Policy Project said: "The worst case scenario is that the probes burn up and scatter plutonium dust into the atmosphere. "If anyone breathed just a speck of that dust they would get lung cancer. "The good news is that these probes are very small, the Earth is very large, and there is no danger of a nuclear explosion." Contact was lost with the craft 75 minutes into the mission. The disaster could wreck plans for a US-Russian Mars mission to drill for fossilised life-forms in 2001. Global interest has intensified since claims earlier this year that evidence of life on Mars had been found. Professor David Southwood, Head of Physics at Imperial College London, who helped develop some of the craft's equipment, said: "I'm only just coming to terms with it. It is very hard to get to Mars. How do you feel when you've lost 10 years work just like that?" It was Russia's first deep space mission since the collapse of the Soviet Union. But it was already lagging behind NASA which launched the 133 million pounds [sterling] Mars Global Surveyor 10 days ago to relay high resolution maps of the planets surface. Next month, NASA will send the 100 million pounds [sterling] Mars Pathfinder complete with a six-wheel buggy to carry out atmospheric tests. But last night scientists at the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan were struggling to find out what had destroyed their hopes of glory. Mission control specialist Anatoly Yeremenk said: "We don't know what happened yet." [W2]****** Source: The Express newspaper Date: Monday 18th November 1996 To Baldly go where no man has gone before The worlds oldest astronaut blasts off into space tomorrow. Story Musgrave, a 61-year-old Texan, will hurtle around the Earth at 17,500 mph on the Columbia space shuttle. The bald ex-marine is in quarantine at Kennedy Space Centre in Florida, preparing for his sixth and final mission. Looking back over his 30-year career, he said yesterday: "I feel exceedingly rewarded." Musgrave qualified as an astronaut in 1967 - a year before Neil Armstrong took man's first steps on the Moon. If he had been a pilot, he would have had to retire a year ago. But NASA dropped its age limit on astronauts in 1978 after concluding it didn't really matter. Musgrave, who has six college degrees in disciplines as varied as medicine and literature, dreamed of flying to Mars when he started out. But he said he had no regrets. The oldest spaceman on active service is 66-year-old moon walker John Young. But he has not flown since 1983. Musgrave will equal his record of six space flights. [W3]****** Source: The Express newspaper Date: Saturday 16th November 1996 Out of our world! Ian Robinson on the history of Unidentified Flying Objects In 1952, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill asked the question: "What does all this stuff about flying saucers amount to? What is the truth?" Thousands of observers have reported Unidentified Flying Objects. Many claim to have had encounters with aliens and despite the best efforts of enthusiasts such as Agents Mulder and Scully in TV's The X-Files, the subject remains shrouded in mystery and speculation. Some are convinced that we are visited by extra-terrestrial beings and that this is being covered up by governments. Other seek alternative explanations for UFOs. Could they be unmanned satellites from far-off galaxies? Do they have a natural explanation? Or are they all in the mind? UFOs have a long history. In Biblical times the Prophet Ezekiel described a dramatic "sighting", and Pliny (AD 23-79) spoke of "burning shields" and "flying torches". Mediaeval chroniclers described strange "comets" and unusual lights in the sky. More recent reports of UFOs have become increasingly specific, with suggestions of airships, planes and flying saucers. The flying saucer is a relatively modern phenomenon. The term was first used in 1947 to describe mysterious objects observed by a pilot, Kenneth Arnold, over mountains in Washington State. Struck by their incredible speed, he thought they must be military jets or missiles, but their crescent shape and erratic path led him to describe them as flying "like a saucer would if you flipped it across the water". Flying saucers had arrived. By the end of 1947, 850 UFO sightings had been listed. Today, more than 10,000 mysterious sightings are reported each year. But what can they be? Most ufologists accept that 95 per cent of sightings can be explained as stars, planets, experimental planes, refuelling aircraft, spy-balloons and optical illusions. Other explanations include cloud formations, ball lightning, earth lights which are caused by rocks under tectonic stress, and skylights which are emissions from thunderstorms. This leaves five per cent of UFO sightings unaccounted for. Belief in extra-terrestrial visitors became so widespread that government agencies began to monitor UFO reports and investigate their cause. Public concern at the threat of invading aliens was certainly real - and never more so than in the famous Orson Welles 1938 broadcast of HG Wells's The War Of The Worlds, which many Americans mistook for the real news instead of radio drama. In the same year that Kenneth Arnold described his flying saucers, an American newspaper claimed that one had crash-landed near an air force base in Roswell, New Mexico. The story was first confirmed, then denied by officials. In 1994, the US government admitted that there had been a crash at Roswell but claimed it was a spy-balloon, not a flying saucer. Speculation was stoked by spectacular film, allegedly discovered in 1995, which claimed to show a 1947 autopsy on an alien spaceman. But as Marc Gascoigne notes in The UFO Investigator's Handbook (Puffin 3 pounds 99 pence Stirling), "The video is almost certainly a hoax". A more recent claim of crash-landing came from Suffolk. On December 27th 1980, a radar station at RAF Watton tracked a flying object over Rendlesham Forest. American guards at nearby RAF Woodbridge spotted lights in the trees and went to investigate. According to Gascoigne, "A clearing had been smashed in the trees. A metallic, triangular object hovered in the clearing, emitting a dazzling white light. It was two to three metres across and two metre tall. The men ventured closer. It moved away into the trees. Next morning, three depressions were found in the ground, and background radiation in the area had doubled." In 1961, Betty and Barney Hill saw a bright light in the sky while driving one night and thought it may have been a UFO. Under hypnosis they claimed to have been abducted by aliens who took them aboard their spaceship. Other accounts of abduction include lumberjack Travis Walton, who had inexplicably disappeared for five days in 1975, and author Whitley Strieber (Communion, 1987) who claims to have been abducted by aliens on several occasions. A more benign account of contact with aliens was given in George Adamski's Flying Saucers Have Landed (1953) originally written as fiction, then published, more lucratively, as "fact". Winston Churchill's question remains unanswered but, whatever the truth, the history of UFOs certainly supports HG Wells's conclusion to The War Of The Worlds: "We have learned now that we cannot regard this planet as being fenced in and a secure abiding-place for Man: we can never anticipate the unseen good or evil that may come upon us suddenly out of space." The movies: One place you can be sure of seeing UFOs is at the cinema. Their extra-terrestrial crews have been portrayed as warlike aggressors, emissaries of peace or simply stranded travellers. Cinema images now influence "eye-witness" accounts of UFOs to the extent that it is impossible to detach fact from fiction... The Day The Earth Stood Still (1951): A spaceman has come to warn Earth of the dangers of atomic weapons and space exploration. Hostile troops open fire, destroying a unique opportunity for inter-galactic understanding. The Thing From Another World (1951): An alien craft is found frozen in ice at the North Pole. The "thing" inside is allowed to thaw out - and poses a terrible threat to the whole of mankind. The War OF The Worlds (1953): HG Wells's classic tale of Martian invaders, transferred to present-day America. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968): Earth is a distant colony of an advanced civilisation responsible for our history, from cavemen to astronauts. The Man Who Fell To Earth (1976): David Bowie is an alien visitor in search of a precious resource his planet desperately needs...water. Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (1977): Extraordinary visual images and a strong sense of wonderment when mankind finally confronts incontrovertible evidence of extra-terrestrial visitors. ET: The Extra-Terrestrial (1982): Stranded peaceable alien is befriended by children, but faces unwelcome curiosity from UFO researchers. V (1984-85) TV series): Pleasant human-seeming people are really nasty, mice-eating, alien reptiles. Independence Day (1996): Back to ballistics as hostile aliens declare war on Earth. [W4]****** From: Duncan@life.com Source: Focus magazine Date: September 1996 Aliens With the movie Independence Day bringing ETs into the limelight once again, Focus speculates on what sort of creatures might really be lurking out there... By Sean Blair Britain's top astronomer was furious - and a little frightened. Astronomer Royal Sir Martin Ryle believed what had happened would lead to only one thing; alien invasion! The year was 1974, and Ryle had just learnt that the American National Astronomy and Ionosphere Centre had sent out a welcome message from its radio telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico, aimed at the constellation Hercules. Ryle's response was immediate. Didn't thc fools know what they were doing? He drafted an angry letter to the International Astronomy Union, demanding that no such message ever be transmitted again and asking them to officially condenm such hazardous actions. In an unknown and potentially hostile universe, Earth had drawn attention to itself, letting malevolent aliens know just where to find us. The IAU never did condemn such transmisions. It was left to Frank Drake, director of the centre and pioneer of the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) initiative to explain that it was too late for future Nobel prize-winner Ryle to worry anyway. Radio and TV signals have already announced our presence to our galactic neighbourhood - to this day. Dixon of Dock Green and I Love Lucy are still speeding outwards at the speed of light. Besides, Drake argued, any alien race that achieved interstellar travel would be sufficiently developed to reject war and aggression. Drake speculates elsewhere that aliens are quite likely to have discovered the secret of imortality and other scientific gifts they will gladly share with their newly discovered terrestrial neighbours. Ryle never replied to Drake's letter. This one sided exchange is interesting as it demonstrates the variety of opinion on what "they" might be like, if "they" are out there at all. In medieval times, the skies were believed to be peopled by angels and devils. Our knowledge has grown exponentially since, but our view of alien entities still tends to centre on either benevolent superbeings or prospective evil invaders. Until we get what SETI enthusiasts refer to as "The Signal", we cannot guess exactly what an alien would be like. The centuries of speculation about extraterestrials tend to reveal more about ourselves than ETs. Serious scientific discussion about aliens really began in 1959, with the publication in Nature of an article suggesting signalling to aliens by microwave and, the following year, Frank Drake's first radio telescope scans of nearby stars to detect extraterestrial signals. Before finding anything, you must decide what you're looking for - so SETI scientists have spent a lot of time over the past 30 years working out what aliens around any of the estimated 40 billion trillion stars in the universe might be like. They are almost certain to use radio to communicate across interstellar distances, and they would be carbon-based, like all life as we know it. Carbon is the only atom capable of forming sufficiently complex molecules to create life. Water would also be necessary for the biochemical reactions comprising living systems. It is assumed that aliens will be composed of individual biological cells broadly similar to our own. In fact, NASA's Global Surveyor mission to Mars, to be launched in 1998, will look for calcium carbonate "skeletons" that could have been left by cells of micro-organisms, checking a theory that life once started on the Red Planet, too, but died before evolving as Mars began to grow cold and inhospitable. While the exact nature of aliens is unknown, they must have ways of taking in nourishment, moving and reproducing and some sort of organ that houses intelligence. Thought has also been given to the character of alien civilisations. Russian astronomer Nikolai Kardashev introduced a classification system in the 1960s that has become SETI standard. Human civilisation is a comparatively puny Type One civilisation, just about up to exploiting the energy capability of planet Earth. But maturer civiltsations could reach Type Two using the entire energy of their home star - or even Type Three, involving colonisation and exploitation of whole galaxies. Around the same time, Frank Drake put together an equation to work out the number of alien species broadcasting in our galaxy. Taking into account all possible contributory factors, the Drake Equation has yielded answers varying from 10 million alien civilisations to a more modest few thousand. Waiting for "Wow!" So where are they? There have been numerous "answers" to the "Fermi paradox" since it was posed by Italian physicist and Manhattan Project member Enrico Fermi. Physicist Frank Tipler argues only enormous chance allowed life on Earth to arise - expecting it to happen twice is just too much to ask. Or perhaps Earth is just out of step with our alien neighbours. We might have to wait millions of years for them to evolve - or else they are already extinct; perhaps all intelligent civilisations eventually destroy themselves, by war or by accident. The idea that we are in space quarantine, either for our own good or theirs is a popular argument. As J G Ballard commented gloomily after the lunar landing, "If I was a Martian, I'd start running now." Another possibility is that alien races are observing radio silence to avoid the attentions of predators - either hostile aliens or autonomous self-replicating probe robots (perhaps even sentient computer viruses existing as microwaves) hungry for raw materials and real estate. The existence of just one such threat might be enough to silence the galaxy - apart from naive young worlds like ours, broadcasting happily away. Anyway, it isn't quite true to say SETI efforts have heard nothing for the past 35 years. There have been hundreds of suspect signals received - most famously the regular signal, originating from at least lunar distance and detected at Ohio State University Observatory in 1977. This has gone down in SETI history as the 'Wow!" signal - from what the supervising astronomer wrote in the margin of the computer printout. These and other such unrepeated signals - SETI resechers call them "bumps in the night" - fit well with the idea of alien microwave communication - but unfortunately, they also fit more mundane explanations: secret military satellite transmitting on illegal fequences, reflections from space debris or equipment malfunction But if The Signal does come for sure, will there be anyone still listening? Under pressure from a cost cutting Congress, NASA ended SETI research in 1993. Private research is precariously funded and Scientists have been reduced to appealing for money over the Internet. The Ohio State Telescope being pulled down this year - to make way far a golf course. At a time when interest in aliens is greater than ever - and the discovery of complex organic molecules and new worlds in deep space make their existence more likely - our chances of knowing for certain if they exist are getting slighter. How aliens have always been in our nightmares Notions of non-human intelegences stretch back thousands of years. The flrst imagined were animist nature sptrits of mountains, forests, rivers and seas. And a few of these spirits developed into gods. With its waxing and waning dominating the night sky, the moon was naturally ensgrined in godhood by many cultures, and its movements became the basis of all calendars. The Greek philosopher Anaxagoras, in the fifth century BC, was the first to suggest the moon might not be another being but a world like the earth-and an inhabited one to boot. His opinion was later endorsed by the historian Plutarch and the writer Lucian. His A Tru History written in AD 165, has a hero carried to the moon by a whirlwind to meet the distinctly human lunar king and queen, who are warring over the colonisation of Jupiter. The Renaissance marked a renewal of interest in the universe beyond Earth. The Italian writer Ariosto described a trip to an inhabited moon (this time via the fiery chariot of Elijah) in his 1532 poem Orlando Furioso. But while it was acceptable to suggest in fiction there were habitable worlds besides the Earth, saying so as fact was unwise. Six decades on from Ariosto, the Italian monk Giordano Bruno declared, "Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earth's revolve about these suns... Living humans inhabit these worlds." The Catholic Church called on him to recant this cosmological heresy. When he refused, they burnt him at the stake. But, a few years later, the invention of the telescope revealed the moon as an earthlike place, with mountains, craters and "seas", and spurring on speculation about life on other worlds Cyrano de Bergerac penned Voyages to the Moon and the Sun in 1647, and a pair of English bishops, Francis Godwin and John Wilkins, wrote their own visions of life on the moon -inhabited by inteligent human beings, as usual. As astronomical knowledge progressed, the airless moon was abandoned as a possible home of life - although as late as 1835 the New York Sun newspaper claimed astronomers had seen flowers, trees and unicorns on the lunar surface. This still left the rest of our solar system, however. In 1796 astronomer Pierre Simon de LaPace formulated the theory that it originated out of a gradually cooling cloud of gas, with the furthest planets in the solar system condensing first. This meant the further from the sun a planet was, the older it was. It followed then that cloud-covered Venus was a young version of Earth literally a virgin world - while Mars, with its thin atmosphere, was seen as an elderly, dying planet. Despite this, Mars was considered through out the 19th century as a probable abode of alien life. It had icy poles, suggestive of water, and seasonal movements of dark and light across its surface that were interpreted as vegetation - possibly cultivated fields. And then there were the canals... In 1877 Italian astronomer Giovanni Schiaparelli was the first to see what we now know to be the optical illusions of dark channels stretching across the Martian landscape, but it was American Percival Lowell who made them his own. >From his private observatory in Arizona he mapped more than 500 hundred canals, crossing at dark spots dubbed "oasis". Despite objections from other astronomers that they couldld see nothing, Lowell depicted, in books such as 'Mars as the Abode of Life', an advanced but dying Martian civilisation, combating the drying out of their world with global irrigation. There were already many suggestions on how we should contact our potential neighbours. Back in 1820 German mathematician Karl Gauss had suggested cutting a huge and bizarre pattern of Pythagorean triangles into the forest of Siberia, while 50 years later, French physicist Charles Cros mooted the idea of a network of sunlight-reflecting mirrors stretched across Europe. In the 1890s psychics also got in on the act, claiming they had already made mental contact with denizens of the Red Planet. Mystery radio signals The new medium or radio was also pressed into service, with both Marconi and Tesla briefly believing they had picked up signals from Mars or elsewhere. (In fact, what they had heard were "whistlers" long-lasting electromagnetic waves produced by lightning flashes.) Then, in the years following Lowell's death in 1916, studies of the Martian atmosphere showed it was colder than Antarctica, and too thin for any human-like form to breathe. Shifting colours on the surface were revealed as simply dust storms, and "canals" as tricks of the light. The culture of the 19th century had constructed an imaginary civilisation in its own image. In the age of the Panama and Suez canals, canal- building was seen as the hallmark of an advanced civilisation. The Martians were gone, but not forgotten. They lived on in the books of such authors as H G Wells and Edgar Rice Burroughs, and the fledging genre of "scientifiction". And the "Greys" of today's ufology are the great-grandchildren of 19th century Martians; with their wizened, spindly limbs, enlarged heads and apparent obsession with reproduction, they'd fit in perfectly on the low-gravity plains of Lowell's dying Mars. Martians made a brief reappearance in 1938, when Orson Welles' New Jersey-set radio version of War of the Worlds caused mass hysteria among its audience, already disturbed by rumours of war. The next time aliens entered popular culture was the 195Os when flying saucer sightings gave people something else to worry about besides the Cold War. But whatever they are, belief in ET visitors has never gone away. Forty years ago they were responsible for banal but well-meaning speeches about the dangers of nuclear energy. Today, they're stronger on random kidnapping and sexual assault than chit- chat-the perfect reflection, perhaps, of the Nervous Nineties. Watchers of the kies: the alien hunters Slashing NASA's SETI budget reduced the US deficit by just 0.0006 per cent but dealt a crushing blow to the alien hunters (the only country now sponsoring SETI efforts is Argentina). However, SETI has bounced back with the setting up of several private sector groups, including the New Jersey based SETI League and the SETI Foundation in California. The SETI League has announced a new all-sky SETI programme, Project Argus, beginning in1997, which will use thousands of mini-satellite dishes set up by volunteers across the world. The SETI Foundation is also overseeing a search called Project Phoenix from Australia, targeting 200 stars, while the University of California at Berkeley is carrying on its long-running SERENDIP (Search for Extraterrestrial Radio Emmisions from Nearby Developed Intelligent Populations) project, with help from sponsors including scientist Carl Sagan. Not that SETI enthusiasts have devoted all resources to the airwaves: some believe that aliens will be found by sighting actual artefacts, suh as Dyson Speheres - gigantic constructs surrounding individual suns - which will give off distinctive and detectable infrared patterns. Another theory is that aliens will communicate by high powered lasers. Astronomer Stuart Kingsland has built a telescope in Ohio with a photon-counter to find laser pulses between the nearest 1,000 stars. Making an alien: imagining life on the moon of 70 Virginis A new planet, discovered last January around the star 70 Virginis, excited interest because its position suggested that water - and therefore life - could have developed there. But what would such life be like? Life as we envisage it couldn't develop on the planet itself, which is similar to Jupitor but 6.4 times as big, though probably also has solid moons. Imagine an Earth-sized moon orbiting the planet every 2.6 days. With an orbital radius of ope million km, it's distant enough to escape being broken up by the planets massive gravity. One side of the moon always faces towards the planet, and is distorted by tidal forces. Resultant crustal cracking may have spewed out hot gases to form an atmosphere, as well as water (some of which also came from comet impacts) creating an ocean, and volcanic minerals providing raw materials for carbon-based life forms. 70 Virginis is three billion years older than our sun, so life here has had twice as long to evolve. Micro-organisms feeding on undersea volcanic vents could develop into larger organisms. Evolution could be spurred on by a high mutation rate caused by radiation from the planet. The planet's temperature and pressure is extremely high - water would have a boiling point of well over 100 degrees C here - so "Virginians" might be small and spiky to vent excess heat, with eyes and frond-like tentacles in all directions to locate nutrients. Tidal forces could leave part of the moon high and dry every 1.3 days, causing Virginians to evolve a hard shell to prevent themselves being dried out - as well as intelligence to cope with the ever-changing enviroment. The Virginians could maybe link brains via tentacles. The bigger the problem, the more join together. Alone, they are perhaps as clever as a cat; a dozen of them together, far more intelligent than a human being. The alien makers A hideous, slimy tentacled space invader staggers out of the Area 51 Lab - one of the stars of the 60 million dollar SFX-fest, Independence Day. But while you wouldn't want to meet monster maker Patrick Tacopoulous's creation in a dark alley, like all movie invaders, they're really not alien enough. Even H R Giger's famous Alien design owes its shock factor to humanoid aspects. Taking a leaf out of Freud's book, he made the creature's vaious stages of life resemble human genitalia, from its vulva-style egg to the phallic head of the adult alien. Gigers latest work will be revealed this autumn, with the release of the latest Star Trek film, First Contact. He has redesigned the Borg, the alien from the Next Generation TV show, to make it look less human. The Borgs use time travel to change history and destroy the Federation. In reality, any humanoid aliens will be in extremely short supply. The chances of another planet producing the same genetic sequence as ourselves is an estimated 5 x 10 to the power of 16,557,000 - enough digits to fill over a thousand pages of Focus. Written science fiction has yielded some more credible aliens than films, but there are still limitations. SF writer and physicist Stephen Baxter has created some of the most original aliens of the past few years, including creatures made from dark matter and enormous beings made from the turbulent cells of a boiling ocean, but he argues that it is among the hardest things for a writer to do. "My feeling is that real alien races will be just that: alien," says Baxter. "You only have to look at our 'cousins' on Earth, like the fossil creatures of the Burgess Shale, to see that." Imagining the way an alien might think and communicate is a real barrier. "I think communication will be much more difficult than we think - second only to the problem of recognising something as alive in the first place." If you're looking for a credible alien, you should go to a xenobiologist like Jack Cohen, who works out how aliens would evolve. Xenobiologists ask themselves how evolution would solve problems presented by certain enviroments - high gravity worlds might give rise to flat, armoured creatures, while gas planets might serve as home to balloon-like "floaters". The results of Cohen's studies have appeared in novels by Larry Niven and Brian Aldiss - but Cohen the script for any resulting movie would be dull. "I'm sure aliens would be so different as to make interaction with humans unlikely," he says. What happens when we finally hear The Signal...? The '50s comics made it look so easy. The head alien steps out of his saucer parked on the White House lawn and says, "Take me to your leader!" In real life, any communication is likely to come by radio, not rocket ship, but what then? To address that question, a document called Declaration of Principles Concerning Activities Following the Detection of Extraterrestrial Intelligence was approved in 1989 by the International Academy of Astronautics and a host of other astronomy organisations. It says information on any alien signal should be promptly released to other researchers and, once verified, to the entire world. When it comes to replying, it specifies that no return signal be sent until international consultations take place. This is usually taken to mean that the decision on whether to reply (and what to say) should be mad by the United Nations, although it is arguable whether a unanimous decision on such a momentous issue would be reached. The design of the alien greeting plaque sent on Pioneers 10 and 11 led to controversy in 1972. Because the plaque showed a naked couple, NASA was accused by some of sending smut into space. The cultural and political divides that would open up debating the contents of a reply to aliens would undoubtably be far greater. Astronomer Patrick Moore, among others, has urged that all politicians be left out of it - while Alabama sociologist Donald Tartar suggests those who first detect a signal immediately reply with a code word. The code will also identify all future messages from the discoverers, so the aliens will know which ones are worth listening to. The other question pondered by SETI researchers about First Contact is the risk of profound culture shock. The extreme differentness of aliens might drive us to collective xenophobia or, if their achievements are sufficiently ahead of ours, we might plunge into a despairing apathy so severe it might mean extinction. [W5]****** From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Subject: Station's First Module Assembled\; Ready for Testing Date: Monday 9th December 1996 STATION'S FIRST MODULE ASSEMBLED; READY FOR TESTING The first major component of the International Space Station (ISS) has been completed on schedule and on budget. Russia's Khrunichev Industries, working under contract to NASA's ISS prime contractor, The Boeing Company, has completed assembly of the Functional Cargo Block, or FGB, which will be launched in one year and will provide initial power and propulsion for the ISS. The FGB, a 20-ton pressurized spacecraft, will be launched on a Russian Proton vehicle in November 1997. "The first piece of Space Station is on track and will be ready to launch in just twelve months," said Virginia Barnes, FGB program manager. "The people of Khrunichev worked hard to make this happen, and we are all excited to be playing such a crucial role in this new chapter of space exploration." In May 1997, the FGB will be transported from Moscow to the Baikonur launch complex, where it will undergo final checkout and testing, and be mated to the Proton rocket. "Most of the subsystem hardware has been installed including the propulsion system, the onboard computers, lighting power supply, solar array orientation system, thermal controls, fire detection, and guidance, navigation and control," said Barnes. "The subsystems will now undergo functional testing until the FGB is transported to the launch site." A week after the FGB launch, an interconnecting node module, built by Boeing in Huntsville, AL, will be launched from the Kennedy Space Center, FL, aboard a Space Shuttle. Astronauts will link the two modules in space, signaling the beginning of the largest space-based construction project in history. The FGB will provide orbital control, communications and power to the node. During this period, the FGB will control the motion and define the altitude of the Station's orbit. Later in the assembly sequence of the Station, as additional modules are added, the FGB will serve as a storage and experimentation facility. In addition, its external fuel tanks will continue to be used throughout the lifetime of the Station. "This is an exciting time for the FGB team," said Barnes. "In the next 12 months we will be preparing to launch and to unite our two countries in building the International Space Station." In August 1995, Boeing Defense & Space Group and Russia's Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center, signed a $190 million contract for all phases of development and production of the spacecraft. [W6]****** Source: Mufon UFO Journal Date: November 1996 THE ORDEAL OF JOHN FORD by Elaine Douglass The arrest June 12 of Long Island New York UFO activist John Ford is deeply troubling. Founder in the mid-8Os of the Long Island UFO Network (LIUFON), Ford became known for his relentless investiga- tions of UFO events and for his startling al- legations that alien craft had come down on Long Island tree times in recent years and been retrieved by federal and local authori- ties. The Suffolk County Long Island Police Department is one of the agencies John ac- cused. John said the police helped recover a fiery object witnesses told John came down in Long Island's Southaven Park in 1992. John made this claim at public meetings up and down Long Island, and he held a demonstration at Police Headquarters. About a year ago scary things started happening to John Ford. He repeatedly phoned friends and said someone was ha- rassing him and maybe, he thought, trying to kill him. Was there a campaign to desta- bilize John Ford? If so, it reached its climax June 12, when John was arrested in a sting operation in- volving phone taps and a "wired" paid in- formant. Police charged John with conspir- acy to murder and possession of radium without a license. Suffolk DA James Catterson told news reporters John Ford planned to murder an individual by the name of John Powell, head of the Suffolk County Republican Party, by putting ra- dioactive radium in his toothpaste. An improbable charge, to put it mildly. Nonetheless, the DA seemed unable to re- strain himself in the media following John's arrest. He sponsored two press conferences, compared John to the Unabomber, and made additional charges against John for which no indictments were subsequently re- turned. Amid a flood of sensational news, John's bail was set at half a million dollars. Naturally, he hasn't been able to raise it. In the meantime, the UFO community, unused to investigators being arrested and charged with crimes, has met this unsettling drama with a stunned silence. Nor has John, on advice of his attorney, issued any state- ment in his own defense other than his plea of not guilty. Not mentioned in the newspapers was John's claim of harassment, of himself and others in LIUFON: auto accidents (too many), vandalism of cars, and a physical at- tack on LIUFON member Joe Mazzuchelli, who was arrested with John June 12. Mazzuchelli says last winter four men dragged him out of John's truck, beat him up, and warned him to "stay out of our busi- ness. Such are the allegations in this case. What is the truth? Is UFO investigator John Ford a potential murderer? Or is John the victim of a political arrest? Was he set up by people local to the Island or higher-people who got a little tired of John Ford's inces- sant allegations? What were John's allegations? As any- one familiar with John knows, they were radical. For example, John believed that in 1989 Americans forced down an alien craft over Moriches Bay Long Island. He believed that in 1992 an alien craft crashed in Southhaven Park on the Island. And he considered the possibility that in 1995 another mysterious object came to earth in the Pine Barrens area of the Island and that "diversionary fires" were set to dis- tract public attention. John claimed the technology used to down the alien craft in 1989 came from Brookhaven National Laboratory on the Island. Based on his sightings investiga- tions, John concluded UFOs were making regular flights over populated Hudson Valley and Long Island, much to the con- sternation of the coverup, which decided to do something about it. John further believed the Long Island police, fire, parks and other local agencies were commandeered by the federals to assist in these emergency opera- tions and then, naturally, gagged. John claimed he had "sources" in the Police and Fire Departments who privately told him information on which he built his cases. And there were non-confidential wit- nesses, members of the public, who told John, for example, about a fireball coming to earth in Southhaven Park, about fire truck and police cars that night, and that the Park was closed afterward. Yet the Fire and Police Departments denied it and the Park director said the Park was never closed. The details of John's cases are too numerous to cover here, but one treatment of the Moriches Bay case can be found in Len Stringfield's Status Report VI. The thing about John was he wouldn't shut up. He went all over Long Island talk- ing about a coverup of UFO events in which local authorities were deeply implicated. John founded LIUFON about 1985. From then on, he maintained a hot line. He inves- tigated sightings and abductions. He held public meetings. He talked to the press. He sponsored conferences. He held demonstra- tions, he published a newsletter, he leaflet- ted. John was tireless. I know John Ford, and he is the most determined UFO investi- gator I ever met. He also has flaws, plenty of them. He is stubborn, for example. Yet John Ford's friends all attest he lived a moral life and never, as far as anyone can remember, threatened another person with bodily harm. According to John's attorney, John Rouse of Central Islip, "You can't believe how many people have called me to say they can't en- vision John Ford killing anyone, or even conceiving the intention." Murder wasn't in John's character, peo- ple say, and breaking the law wasn't John's style. John Ford was a law and order advo- cate who spent most of his career as a Court Officer in the Suffolk County court system. John knew the law and how to use it. John was litigious, not violent. If John Ford had a gripe against you, he'd sue you in a minute. Nor is John stupid. Even the Suffolk DA called John a "mastermind." If John was go- ing to kill someone, would he use radium? It hardly kills people fast. Readers will re- call the famous radium dial painters of the l920s who licked radium paint brushes for 40 years before they got cancer. Yet the DA would have us believe that John's "murder weapon" was radium. Toothpaste goes fast in a household of four people, like that of alleged murder target John Powell. Was Ford going to break in and put radium in Powell's toothpaste every week for 40 years until Powell got cancer? And would an individual who thought people were watching him leave illegal ra- dium in the back of a pickup truck in front of his house? I repeat, John knew the law. The charges against John strain credibil- ity, but that didn't seem to embarrass the DA. As I mentioned, Catterson was so eager to incriminate John that he made several se- rious charges at his press conferences for which no indictments were returned. "This," says attorney John Rouse, "is called poison- ing the jury pool." Catterson's overstep raises questions: Did the DA believe he had more evidence against John than he ended up with? How good is the remaining evidence? Is it possi- ble the DA never thought he had evidence to convict John of anything, and that in- stead, the purpose of the arrest is simply to ruin John Ford's reputation and wipe him out financially with legal bills? The purported case against John rests on the taped conversation made in John's house the night of his arrest. According to police, the wired informant engaged in con- versation with John and Joe Mazzuchelli about doing away with Powell and another local politician via the radium in the tooth- paste route. After this the police, who were waiting outside, burst in and arrested John and Joe. The tape has now been released on dis- covery. "It's unintelligible," says Preston Nichols, John's friend in LIUFON. "All I can clearly hear on that tape," Nichols says, "is the informant talking and John laughing like whatever they're talking about is a big joke." Attorney John Rouse doesn't disagree. He's waiting for an "enhanced" version of the tape to see if the conversation becomes clearer. Rouse warns, however, that John's situation is serious. If a jury believes the DA's charges, John Ford could get 25-75 years at an upstate NY prison. As for the radium, it was allegedly found outside in John's truck. Outside is where the police were, waiting and listening to the in- formant talking with John and Joe. Could the police have planted the radium? And finally, unless John was to be en- couraged and entrapped, why use an infor- mant at all? If the police believed John was plotting a murder, why not bug his house for a couple of weeks and get the whole scoop? The answer might be that the purpose of the informant was to lead the conversation in an incriminating direction. I have in my files a letter from the Suffolk County Police Department, dated April 1993. I wrote to them, at John's re- quest, complaining about police violations of LIUFON member's civil rights. They had been leafletting near Southhaven Park and going house to house looking for wit- nesses-constitutionally protected activity. The police stopped them and ordered them out of the area. This was the kind of thing John did, and this was the kind of response he got from the Suffolk Police, as far hack as 1993. There is plenty of reason to think the Suffolk Police were "out to get" John Ford. And no member of the UFO community can be confident they understand the arrest of John Ford if their only source of informa- tion is the sensational media reports orches- trated by the Suffolk DA. That is why John's colleagues, including myself in Washington, DC, LIUFON vice president Steve lavarone, and Tony West, Richard Jones, Preston Nichols, and Joe Zuppardo in New York, Don Jernigan of Ohio, and Kelly Freeman of Florida, have organized the John Ford Defense Committee. Our purpose is (1) to give peo- ple true information on the arrest of John Ford, and (2) collect funds and other re- sources essential for John's defense. My support for John Ford, and the sup- port of the other members of the Defense Committee, is based on our convic- tion that John did not, would not, and could not conspire to murder anyone. On this point our support is complete and total. As for John's allegations, I speak only for myself and not for other members of the Defense Committee. I always found John's allegations hard to believe but impossible to dismiss-because John had evidence and what he claimed was perfectly possible. Taken as a whole, what John Ford's claims suggest is a low intensity military conflict between the United States and the aliens. Is that possible? Yes it is. Just because John's allegations "fit" doesn't make them true. But the fact is, John had evidence. John claimed three events on Long Island. Even if he was wrong on two of them, if he was right on only one, John had a tiger by the tail. If so, it's no surprise somebody would try to destroy John Ford. And there's that curious coincidence about Moriches Bay, which more than a few persons have pointed out. Moriches Bay is where John said the United States brought down an alien craft in 1989, and Moriches Bay is where TA Flight 800 mysteriously crashed in August. The cause of that crash, readers are aware, has so far eluded federal investigators, and in particular investigators are unable to explain the reports of more than 20 persons who say they saw an unac- countable light streaking toward Flight 800 before it went down. John Ford is the first UFO investigator to be seriously persecuted by the authorities. Shall we sit idly by while our colleague's life is destroyed? If John Ford is silenced, who is next? Contact the John Ford Defense Committee at web site www.iwaynet.net/~pic or email elaine26@juno.com The Committee needs funds for John's legal defense and donations of several kinds: a psychiatrist expert witness; profes- sional audiotape analysis; and a Long Island-based legal investigator. Please also write personal letters to: John Ford (8-29- 48), Suffolk County Jail, 100 Center Dr., Riverhead, NY 11901. [W7]****** Source: The Sunday Times newspaper Date: 1st December 1996 MOZART BREAKS THE LIGHT BARRIER AN experiment involving the music of Mozart is said to be defying one of the fundamental laws of physics: that nothing can travel faster than light, writes Steve Connor. Under laboratory conditions, scientists claim to have repeatedly transmitted signals, including part of Mozart's 40th symphony, at velocities far in excess of the speed of light. The results have caused disbelief in the scientific community. If true, the findings would violate Einstein's special theory of relativity, which is a cornerstone of modern physics and our view of the universe. They would also suggest that time travel may one day be possible. In the face of accusations that he has misinterpreted his own results, Gunter Nimtz, professor of physics at the University of Cologne, insists he has produced the first experimental evidence which can only be explained by accepting faster-than-light travel. Nimtz said last week: "Nobody seriously does not believe our results, only our interpretation of them. They say they violate the theory of special relativity. Most of my colleagues say this is impossible." His research involved splitting microwaves into two, sending one set through the air and the other through a specially constructed "tunnel barrier", a type of electronic filter. Those that went through the barrier travelled 4.7 times faster than those passing through the air at 670m mph, the speed of light. The first time Nimtz performed the experiment he used simple microwaves. But scientists in America criticised his method for having no distinctive signal and therefore no way of knowing whether the results were true. So Nimtz encoded part of Mozart's 40th symphony in microwaves. He said that the music was clearly recognisable after it had travelled 4.7 times faster than light and played a tape of it at a scientific meeting earlier this year. However, even those experts who believe time travel may one day be possible remain sceptical. Dr David Deutsch, a theoretical physicist from Oxford University, said: "It must be a mistake. It would be as if someone was to say that Australia wasn't there and all our apparent evidence that it was there is just wrong, without any explanation of why." Nimtz's experiment will be shown tomorrow night in a programme in BBC2's Horizon series. On the same programme, Professor Stephen Hawking, the Cambridge theoretical physicist, acknowledges that he has shifted his opinion on time travel, although he still believes there are problems. He says: "Time travel might be possible, but if that is the case why haven't we been overrun by tourists from the future?" [W8]****** Source: USA Today Date: 2nd December 1996 ISRAELI SCIENTISTS: STAR COLLISION CAUSED DINOSAUR EXTINCTION JERUSALEM - Israeli scientists have a new theory on why the dinosaurs became extinct: cosmic radiation that bombarded the Earth following the collision of two neutron stars. Physicists from the Space Research Institute at the Technion University in Haifa theorize that the mass extinction 65 million years ago was caused by the merging of twin stars near the Earth inside the Milky Way galaxy. This collision created a deadly wave of cosmic radiation that destroyed the protective layers of the Earth's atmosphere, frying vegetation and obliterating most animal life, the researchers say. "The study is actually an attempt to solve the biggest murder case in the history of life on Earth," said Arnon Dar, a physics professor at the Technion, who with colleagues Nir Shaviv and Ari Lior has submitted the theory for publication in the journal Science. There have been several theories that astral radiation caused mass extinctions. David N. Schramm, an astrophysicist at the University of Chicago, suggested last year that exploding stars called supernovas could have caused another mass extinction - the most severe in Earth's history - that killed 95% of all life 225 million years ago. But Dar said supernovas could not have caused all six mass extinctions that swept over the Earth in the last 650 million years - one about every 100 million years. "The rate of supernova explosion is not great enough to explain the 100 million year extinctions," Dar said Sunday. "But the merging of neutron stars could be responsible." Twin stars merge every day somewhere in the universe, producing radiation in the form of gamma and cosmic rays that strike the Earth's atmosphere. Usually, the stars are too far away to do any damage and the radiation is harmlessly absorbed by the ozone layer. But occasionally - about every 100 million years by Dar's estimate - twin or binary stars collide close to Earth, producing devastating effects. Dar's theory is "a credible idea," Schramm said. "We do know there is at least one known pair of neutron stars (near Earth) that are spiraling closer together and will indeed collide." But that collision, he said, is at least 100,000 years away. The dinosaurs' demise has been the subject of hot debate in scientific circles. Dar discounts the prevailing theory - supported by Schramm - that an asteroid strike in Chicxulub in Mexico's Yucatan was to blame. Chicxulub is home to a crater more than 100 miles wide that could have been formed by a blast with the explosive power of 100 to 300 megatons of TNT. The theory holds that the asteroid crash created a huge explosion that cast enough dust and rock into the atmosphere to block out the sun, turning the Earth cold and inhospitable to all but the hardiest organisms. Dar said this theory does not explain the great leap in biodiversity following the mass extinctions. He contends the vast amount of radiation produced by a neutron star collision explains why the number of animal and plant species increased so quickly after mass extinctions. Those animals that survived - because of their hardiness or lack of radioactive exposure - would have produced a greater number of genetic mutations, Dar said. Dar is now trying to determine which twin stars in the Earth's vicinity are likely to collide and potentially bring on the next mass extinction. "In principle, we could predict almost precisely how long it will take before they merge in this lethal way," he said. Meanwhile, both Schramm and the Israeli scientists are continuing to look for evidence of irradiated minerals in the Earth's geologic layers, signs of either a supernova or neutron star collision. "I think the real test will be if we can find these isotopic anomalies," Schramm said. "Unless we find those, we're missing the smoking gun." By The Associated Press [W9]****** Source: CNN Date: 2nd December 1996 ICE ON EARTH'S MOON? PENTAGON TO REPORT FINDINGS WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Ice has been discovered in the south pole region of Earth's moon, according to NASA's analysis of data from a probe sent there two years ago, sources said. NASA's analysis of the terrain in that region of the moon led to the conclusion by NASA scientists and Defense Department officials, sources said. The Pentagon planned to announce the discovery at a news conference Tuesday. The probe, known as "Clementine," was sent to the moon in 1994 and has been sending data back to scientists since. The program is funded by the Pentagon's Ballistic Missile Defense Organization, and is monitored by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The presence of ice indicates to scientists that microbial life forms on the moon might be more likely than previously thought, and that it may be easier to sustain human colonies on the moon that once believed. The data was collected by "radio waves beamed from the Clementine spacecraft into the polar areas" of the moon's surface. The data was then transmitted back to NASA scientists on Earth. The patch of ice is thought to be about 25 feet thick and roughly the size of a small lake or pond. One theory suggests the ice arrived as a comet -- which is mostly ice -- that plowed into the moon at or near the south pole, an area said to be roughly twice the size of Puerto Rico and which never sees the sun. The water molecules could then have migrated south to collect in a crater. Six visits to the moon by Apollo spacecraft turned up no known evidence of life there. Twelve men, all from the U.S., have walked on the surface of the moon, which is about 245,000 miles from the Earth. Apollo 11 was the first to land there in 1969. Five subsequent Apollo missions successfully landed there before the moon shots were discontinued. The missions ended with Apollo 17. [W10]****** Source: CNN Date: 3rd December 1996 ICE 'MOST LIKELY' THE STUFF IN MOON CRATER WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Scientists went public Tuesday with some of the most exciting news about the moon in three decades -- ice "most likely" exists at the moon's sun-deprived south pole. Scientists considered several possibilities in their efforts to confirm the substance, including an odd rock arrangement, but decided that "ice is the most likely thing," Dr. Stewart Nozette of the Lawrence Livermore Laboratories said at a Pentagon news conference. The government was formally reporting the news, which leaked out Monday. The apparent discovery needs further confirmation, the Pentagon said. The primary significance of the news is the discovery of water, which might support human life and provide the raw materials of rocket fuel, said Dr. Paul Spudis of the Lunar and Planetary Institute. "Water is probably one of the most valuable strategic materials we can find in the solar system," Spudis said. Experts believe the ice may have arrived as a comet or comets that smashed into the moon, which is made of dry rock and soil. The water may then have migrated into a deep crater at the moon's darkest part. Scientists are still studying the comets' track record for clues. "The answers are on the moon, and they're on the moon in this dark area," Spudis said. The patch of probable ice is thought to be about 25 feet thick and the diameter of a small pond. It was discovered by the probe "Clementine," which was sent to the moon in 1994 and has been sending back data since. The data was collected by radio waves beamed from the Clementine into the moon's polar areas. The Pentagon said the radio waves could distinguish ice, at least tentatively, because rocks and soil scatter the waves while the smooth surface of ice bounces them back in a coherent pattern. The Clementine spacecraft is a $75 million program that uses the moon as a target to test sensors and other devices for a U.S. antimissile missile defense. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration supplied a team of scientists to analyze information from it. Apollo spacecraft and U.S. astronauts visited the moon in a series of missions from July 1969 to December 1972. Reuters contributed to this report. [W11]****** Source: USA Today Date: 4th December 1996 NASA LAUNCHES MARS PROBE CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. - NASA launched a spacecraft to Mars early Wednesday carrying the first-ever interplanetary rover, a six-wheeled cart that will roam the frigid Martian surface in search of rocks. The Mars Pathfinder began its 310 million-mile journey atop an unmanned rocket that lifted off at 1:58 a.m. It was the third try; launch attempts earlier in the week were stymied by bad weather and a computer failure. Pathfinder is the second probe to be sent to Mars by NASA in the past month. The Global Surveyor took off on Nov. 7, the first of 10 U.S. spacecraft to be sent to the Red Planet over the next decade in hopes of determining whether life ever existed there. A Mars spacecraft launched one week later by the Russians plummeted from orbit, adding to scientists' anxiety over the flight of Pathfinder. If all goes well, Pathfinder should beat the slower Global Surveyor to Mars by two months, landing on July 4, 1997. It would be the first time in 21 years that a spacecraft has landed on Mars. The $196 million Pathfinder, hailed by NASA as a new-wave bargain spacecraft, will aim for an ancient flood plain strewn with rocks. It will be a direct strike - no orbiting the planet first, a la the Apollo moon landings or the Viking probes. A parachute will slow Pathfinder as it plunges through the Martian atmosphere. The parachute will drop away, and large air bags will inflate to cushion the impact. Several hours later, the petals on the spacecraft are to unfold. Two ramps will pop out, and the 23-pound rover - named Sojourner - will amble down to examine nearby rocks and beam back information about their composition as well as color images. NASA wanted to try this novel landing approach as practice for the all-important robotic mission planned sometime in the next decade to dig up Martian dirt and rocks - and return them to Earth. Three-legged spacecraft like the twin Viking landers would never be able to land safely on such rocky terrain, the type of place NASA wants to ultimately scout for possible signs of life. That strategy was reinforced in August when NASA scientists announced they had found supposed evidence of primitive life in a Mars meteorite. By coincidence, the rocks in Pathfinder's targeted landing spot are about the same age as that prized 4-billion-year-old meteorite. NASA had until the end of December to launch Pathfinder. After that, scientists would have had to wait until late 1998 or early 1999 when Earth and Mars are back in the necessary alignment. That's when the next Mars probes will be launched. [W12]****** Source: New York / PRNewswire Date: 5th December 1996 ALIENS BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, SAYS COMIC-BOOK PUBLISHER "Aliens are getting their worst PR since the 1950's," says comic-book publisher Steve Stern. "Movies like Independence Day and Mars Attacks, and TV shows like the X-Files and Dark Skies are fueling an intense paranoia about ETs." Stern is the writer/creator of the alien comic-book hero, Zen Intergalactic Ninja. "After ten years of publication, the Zen live-action movie is finally slated to begin production in early '97," Stern said. "With more alien hate-fests on the horizon, including Men in Black and Starship Troopers, it's imperative that movies start to present a positive image of aliens." He says that the concept that aliens are evil is a not-so-subtle form of discrimination. "Starting in the 50's, sci-fi flicks like Invasion of the Body Snatchers and Earth vs. the Flying Saucers projected our fear of communism onto aliens. Now that communism is no longer a threat, this alien paranoia is clearly working on a deeper level. Read: if it looks different from me, it has to be evil." He points out that the original comic-book alien -- Superman -- is depicted as human. "Even though he came from the planet Krypton, Superman's creators choose to make him look like an Earthling. Perhaps they felt that readers -- especially younger ones -- would have been uncomfortable with an alien-looking hero." Zen, on the other hand, is blue-skinned, and his only facial feature is a set of large, dark eyes. "We need to become accustomed to 'lifeforms' that look different from us," Stern said, "and to accept the idea that they can be just as good and heroic as we are. "E.T. the Extraterrestrial was a case in point, and indicates that we are willing to take aliens literally to heart -- but there hasn't been a similar alien icon for decades. I hope that Zen can help fill that void." [W12]****** Source: The Toronto Star Date: Thursday 5th December 1996 U.S. AIR FORCE MAY BE GOING SCI-FI Plan has robot attack planes, killer laser beams BY RICHARD SISK SPECIAL TO THE STAR WASHINGTON-The U.S. Air Force could morph into the Space and Air Force under a strategic plan to win the next centuries wars. The sci-fi-like Space and Air Force would feature robot at tack planes, killer laser beams and sophisticated weapons systems expected to be able to hit any target anywhere on Earth. It also could win the perennial fight with the other armed services for shrinking defence dollars. The flight service is on a path of change "from an air force in to an air and space force on an evolutionary path to a space and air force," Air Force Secretary Sheila Widnall said. Widnall's comments came as she outlined the plan called "Global Engagement: A Vision for the 21st Century Air Force." Global Engagement foresees new generations of robot-operated unmanned air vehicles for surveillance and pinpoint strikes at enemy forces, together with orbiting spy satellites for weapons guidance and communication, and airborne lasers to zap incoming ballistic missiles. The new technology would "offer an alternative to the kind of military operation that pits large numbers of young Americans against an adversary in brute, force-on-force conflicts," the air force plan said. Defence analysts viewed that statement as a warm-up shot at the army, navy and marines in preparation for next year's battle for long-range budgets in the Quadrennial Defence Review by U.S. Congress. "All the services are positioning themselves to try to walk away from that review with me biggest share of the money," said industry consultant Loren Thompson. The other services will weigh in shortly with their own plans, as "everybody scrambles to in sure that they come up with a mission justification for their weapons," said retired army Col. Dan Smith at the Centre for Defence Information. "The service rivalries are more intense now because, supposedly, me defence budgets are going to be cut," Smith said. The current budget range is $250 billion to $270 billion (U.S.), he said. Widnall called the dominance of space envisioned under Global Engagement as revolutionary for warfare "as the invention of gunpowder or the Manhattan Project," which produced the first atomic bomb. The goal is "to build the ability to detect, track and eventually target anything on the surface of the Earth," she said. The air force has given a $1.1 billion contract to a joint venture of Lockheed Martin, Boeing and the TRW Corp. to develop an attack laser aircraft The plane would be a modified Boeing 747 with a particle laser gun mounted in the nose to destroy enemy ballistic missiles with high-energy beams of light at ranges up to 480 kilo metres. If the project is successful, the air force would buy seven more of the laser aircraft after the year 2003 at a cost of another $6 billion. But Thompson pointed to the enormous technical problems that must be overcome in building a laser more powerful than any now in existence. [W13]****** Source: Adelaide Advertiser Date: 5th December 1996 SCIENCE MINISTER OPENS THE FAMILY X-FILES The Federal Science Minister, Mr McGauran, has revealed his mother believed she once stumbled across evidence of a UFO landing. Mr McGauran's decision to throw open the family X-Files yesterday followed an admission that some of the 30 UFO reports received annually by the CSIRO could not be explained. "When she (Mary McGauran) was a young lass she walked out of the door of her farm in the La Trobe Valley and swears there were patterns in the grass which could not have been caused by humans or animals" she told Melbourne radio station 3AW. On Tuesday, in a written response to calls to open the files on UFO sightings, he said some could not be explained. "Many reports lack sufficient detail on which to base a scientific investigation," he said. A spokeswoman for Mr McGauran said the minister believed 98 per cent of sightings could be explained. "But there are an odd 1 or 2 per cent that really stump the experts", she said. [W14]****** Source: NASA Date: 6th December 1996 SPACE RADAR UNEARTHS SECRETS OF THE ANCIENT NILE One of the many great mysteries of the Nile river may be solved with the discovery of an ancient river channel buried under layers of sand in the Sahara Desert in Africa. The buried river channel was revealed in images taken by the Spaceborne Imaging Radar C/X-Band Synthetic Aperture Radar (SIR-C/X-SAR) that flew twice on the Space Shuttle Endeavour in 1994. The radar images were processed at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA, and the University of Texas at Dallas (UTD). "One of the things this discovery helps us examine is the origin of what's called the Great Bend of the Nile," said Dr. Bob Stern, a SIR-C science team member at UTD. "The Nile generally flows due north, but in the Sudan, it makes a huge, looping bend that is really remarkable because the river is flowing through the Sahara Desert, the largest, driest desert on the face of the Earth. There must be a very good reason for the river to make this great bend, otherwise we would expect it to flow straight to the Mediterranean Sea." Instead, it bends southwestwards and wanders through the Sahara for another 200 miles before resuming its northward course. "The discovery of the river channel shows us that probably sometime between 10,000 and 1,000,000 years ago, the Nile was forced to abandon its bed and take up a new course to the south. This buried channel proves that this region has been tectonically active and shows us how this activity has forced the river to change its course," Stern said. "Understanding what controls the course of the Nile is a critical part of understanding Nile history and predicting Nile behavior, which is important because the river is essential to millions of people in Egypt, Sudan, and Ethiopia." A scientific paper on the discovery written by Stern and co-authored with UTD geologist Dr. Mohamed Gamal Abdelsalam appears in the Dec. 6 issue of Science magazine. The discovery grew out of research that the scientists have been doing on plate tectonics and the formation of a "supercontinent" more than 600 million years ago. "Our original experiment involved studying ancient structures in Precambrian rocks that formed where two supercontinents collided hundreds of millions of years ago. In the course of our study, we became interested in how these structures influenced the course of the Nile," explained Stern. It was the tantalizing radar images of the area hidden beneath the sands of the Sahara that turned the scientists' work in a new direction. "This discovery wouldn't have happened without SIR-C/X-SAR imagery. Our work in northeast Africa would have been limited to what we could see on the ground or could be seen in satellite photographs. The radar is much more efficient in getting information from these sand covered areas because the radar waves are able to penetrate the sand. SIR-C/X-SAR imagery has revealed a huge piece of the Earth's surface -- an area that's never been seriously explored before," Stern noted. "This is one of the most exciting discoveries from the SIR-C/X-SAR mission to date. I expect we'll continue to be surprised by fascinating results like these as the science team continues to analyze the radar data," said Dr. Diane Evans, the SIR-C project scientist at JPL. "More and more we are finding the radar data have applications to answer questions about the Earth that were not originally anticipated." SIR-C/X-SAR is a joint mission of the United States, German and Italian space agencies. JPL built and manages the SIR-C portion of the mission for NASA's Office of Mission to Planet Earth, a program to study the Earth's land, oceans, atmosphere and life as a total, integrated system. [W15]****** Source: USA Today Date: 12th July 1996 New theory revises stars' ages NEW YORK - The universe's most ancient stars could be lying about their ages. A new theory proposes that globular clusters - dense balls of stars thought to be the oldest in the universe - might be up to 3 billion years younger than they're now thought to be. If it is proved correct, the theory could help scientists solve one of astronomy's oddest conundrums: the universe appears younger than its oldest stars. One way out of that mess would be to demonstrate that the stars aren't really so old after all. NASA astrophysicist Allen Sweigart may have done that with a theory that stars in the clusters make themselves look older by dredging helium gas up from their superhot interiors. ''It may have an important effect,'' said Robert Kraft, an astronomer at the University of California, Santa Cruz. ''This is one more factor that's got to go into the discussion of the ages of globular clusters.'' Pulling the stars down by 3 billion years won't completely solve the apparent generation gap. Current estimates put the most ancient stars at about 14 billion years old and the universe's age at 9 billion years. But that's not the whole picture, said University of Chicago astronomer David Schramm. Scientists are still so uncertain about both age estimates that the 5-billion-year discrepancy between them could eventually be explained by any number of things. Sweigart's proposal is only one of them. Even Sweigart said he doesn't want to push the age issue too hard. It's just one possible implication of the helium-mixing process he describes. ''I don't want to claim that my models have proven or shown that the globular clusters are younger,'' Sweigart said. ''It is still a hypothesis that needs to be much more carefully examined and tested against the observations.'' Sweigart's theory, to be summarized in the Jan. 1 issue of Astrophysical Journal Letters, shows how some stars in the globular clusters could be mixing themselves up, moving large amounts of superhot helium from their cores to their outer shells. Through a complex series of steps, that could make the oldest stars look older than they really are. Most experts consider Sweigart's theory an excellent explanation of some unusual aspects of how stars work. But they're less enthusiastic about his suggestion that it could also make the globular clusters appear younger. ''It will have a huge impact in certain circles. I think in the age of the universe it won't,'' said Michael Bolte, an astronomy professor at UC-Santa Cruz. [W16]****** Source: Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne Australia) Date: 8th December 1996 CRATER OF WATER BRINGS CHEER Author/Reporter: Graeme O'Neil DOES a cache of cold gold, hidden in the base of an ancient impact crater, await the next human visitors to the Moon? US space scientists are excited by this week's discovery, of signs of a large water ice deposit in a crater at the Moon's South Pole. If the Clementine spacecraft has discovered water, it would literally be worth its weight in gold for US plans to establish a permanent base on the Moon. The image on this page shows the crater, as revealed by the joint NASA-US military lunar-orbiting probe's radar imaging device, which can "see" through the darkness to produce detailed images of the lunar terrain - and even reveal something of its composition. As it orbited the Moon for two months, the spacecraft obtained 1.8 million images of the lunar surface that will be vital to selecting landing sites for future manned missions to the Moon - as well as the site for a lunar base. If it can be confirmed, the discovery of a large reserve of water ice in the crater, possibly the legacy of a comet impact hundreds of millions of years ago, would carve millions off the cost of establishing a lunar base. Emeritus Professor Ron Brown of Monash University, says that if there is water on the Moon it exists against the odds. Prof. Brown says that on the sunward face of the Moon intense solar radiation and near vacuum would turn ice directly into water vapor. Intense ultra-violet radiation would cause the vapor to dissociate into its constituent hydrogen and oxygen atoms, which would then drift off into space because of the Moon's low gravity. The only place water ice could exist on the Moon was in permanent darkness and at extremely low temperatures - conditions that would exist in the polar crater observed by the Clementine spacecraft. The presence of water on the Moon would reduce the huge cost of ferrying drinking water into space for a lunar colony, Prof Brown said. "Water is a very bulky and costly commodity if you have to lug it into space," he said. "The primary virtue of discovering water on the Moon's surface is that, apart from providing drinking water for a lunar colony, it could also be electrolysed to produce oxygen and hydrogen. "The colony needs oxygen to breathe, but the hydrogen is really only a by-product." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk If you have something to say about the articles and features published in the e-zine please mail: feedback@nolimits.demon.co.uk. For advice on connecting to our weekly meetings via the irc please send mail to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/ddpweb/ufo/ For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Meet us on the IRC. Regular meetings held every Saturday night at 11pm (2300hrs) - 10pm (2200hrs) GMT. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 *** Roswell Corollary Alert *** From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 18:08:48 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 03:39:33 -0500 Subject: *** Roswell Corollary Alert *** Much has been said about "green fireballs" lately. This was related by Linda Howell on Art Bell's Dreamland show 12/15/96 in her report. She said that the same green fireballs were reported back in the 40's and at the time of the Roswell "crash" in 1947. I have noted that a triangular 'piece of the crash' held by the Roswell museum said to have been part of the 'crashed flying saucer' was composed of several metals including copper. Copper when heated causes a green cast to the flame. If an object heated by friction as it speeds thru the atmosphere is heated then it is natural that metallic ionization will cast colors reflecting the metal composition. For copper, that is green. Further, strontium would account for the other colors mentioned. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Dec 96 19:26:26 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 03:40:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance To James Diss: James, <<Consider the fact that one of the first things I heard about Kodak is that they wouldn't verify this because of their military connections. Bull. They wouldn't verify this because of the loss of their credibility, so we have the inestimable 'Italian connection' give some fairly meaningless reports on the film/copy/cutting room floor snippets. Lets push for a couple of independent labs to look at this, arbitaryily chosen at random from a list.>> Something else along this line, when I contacted Kodak their spokesman said they could do the testing but that it would be very costly. There was no mention of them doing it for free. If someone has a contact at Kodak that says they will do it for free, they need to get that in writing and submit it to Santilli. I doubt any independent lab would do it for free either but they may be less expensive than Kodak. Regards, Theresa
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Code of Ethics From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:42:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 03:42:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of Ethics A few remarks on John Powell's defense of his indefensible attacks on "abductionologists." John had said, in so many words, that people like Budd Hopkins are in it for the money. I objected, saying (among other things): > > John, since you believe in objective evidence, please show me the > > evidence that abduction researchers are making money from their work. > > John Mack might be, and Whitley Strieber got a huge advance for > > Communion, because he was already a best-selling writer. His answer: > True on both counts. I'm not in a position to prove with objective > evidence that they are or aren't making money. But I will gladly > analyze their financial situations soon as Hopkins turns over to me his > tax returns for the last 10 years <GRIN>. Fine. You've just proved my point. You don't have evidence that abduction researchers are making money. Now -- with a grin, yet -- you assert your right to keep making your accusations, until Budd Hopkins supplies documentary evidence that they're not true. What a fascinating double standard. He needs to submit evidence, you don't. You claim that abduction researchers are intellectually dishonest. Nevertheless, it's you, not them, who resorts to unsubstantiated personal attacks. If I read you correctly, you even glory in your right to make personal attacks without evidence. Getting more specific now, I'd written: > > > But I doubt that Budd Hopkins, Dave Jacobs, or Eddie Bullard are > > making money, to name three whose careers I know something about. > > Hopkins doesn't get paid for those books he has written??? That's a new > one...<grin> > > Jacobs didn't make any money from his books??? I'd tried to explain my point as follows: > > > Very few > > people who publish books get advances large enough to pay for the time > > it takes to write one. UFO books are no exception. To judge from the > > figures that have been quoted to me, Hopkins and Jacobs essentially > > take a loss every time they publish. You might imagine that the TV > > movie of Intruders made a bundle for Budd, but I'm not so sure. I > > recently had my own brush with TV, and discovered -- to my amazement > > -- that the money going to writers is several orders of magnitude > > lower than outsiders might expect. (Unless you're writing prime-time > > network sitcoms, of course.) To which you answered, with appalling confidence in your knowledge of book publishing: > > That's absolutely ridiculous Greg. Hopkins and Jacobs LOSE money when > they write a book!!! Not a chance...<grin> Let me try to explain more clearly. The key phrase in what I wrote was this one: "Very few people who publish books get advances large enough to pay for the time it takes to write one." The advance, I might add, is all the money anyone who writes a book is guaranteed to make. It's an advance against royalties (and, I believe, various promotional costs), so it's not till the book has earned more money than you've already been paid that you'll see any share of the extra. So now consider the position of someone who gets a $15,000 advance, which is a figure quoted to me by one prominent writer of UFO books, and to the best of my knowledge is the kind of money most writers of books of any kind are looking at. How long does it take to write a book? A year of full-time work, or the equivalent of full-time work? Six months of the same? Hard to name an exact figure, but books normally take a long time to write. Suppose you get a $15,000 advance, and spend six months of full-time work or the equivalent writing the book. You're working at a rate of $30,000 a year, which I assume is less than Dave Jacobs makes as a professor, or Budd makes or made as a painter. It's in that sense -- just to start with -- that you're taking a loss. You're working for far less than your normal pay. And yes, John, you're still getting paid! I don't deny the literal truth of that. But we're not yet through with the economics of book-writing. Here's another question to ask: What are the "opportunity costs" (to use the technical term from economics) of writing a book? What opportunities to make extracurricular money at your usual rate of pay did you miss because you spent your time writing a book instead? And it goes further than that. Did you take time away from your normal occupation? If you did, there's a cost, perhaps in the future (because your career won't the develop the way it might have), and, in Budd's case, perhaps in the present, because he won't have as much time to paint and promote and sell his paintings. Finally, what value do you put on the free time you devour to write your book? What about the cost to your personal and family life? In the end, there's a bottom line, and it works out something like this. I want to write a book. I know, in a general way, what it's going to take out of me. The publisher offers me an advance. Do I think that sum covers the implicit and explicit costs of writing the book? Would I accept it, if someone offered it for work I didn't care about, that took as much time as the book would take? If the answer is no -- if, for any other endeavor, the money offered just wouldn't be worth the time and possible lost income required of me -- then the book is essentially a labor of love. It's in that sense that I say Budd and other UFO writers (and plenty of non-UFO writers as well) are taking a loss when they write. If you think I'm being arbitrary with the concept of "loss," go argue with an economist. And come to think of it, I'm making an optimistic assumption -- that there aren't any direct costs associated with writing the book. I'm not saying this is true of UFO books. But, John, just so you get properly oriented about what book-writing can really be like, let me share a few stories from my friends' experience. One writer, an ex-girfriend of mine, got paid $20,000 for a book of quotations from celebrities on a particular, apparently saleable, topic. She was a single mother with a full-time job. You can't imagine the hours she -- and I, helping her without pay -- spent in libraries amassing the material. Then she found that she'd need to pay for permission to use previously published material (to quote, let's say, from Charles Barkley's autobiography). Most of her quotes were previously published material. The permissions ate up a solid chunk of her advance. Another writer, best known for her fluffy cover stories for People magazine (where she works full-time), got a dream book contract to write about a serious subject dear to her heart. The book required travel for research. The travel ate her advance. She poured her life into the book, and never made a dime. Yet another writer, one of the most respected country music critics, wrote a book on Elvis. The book required extensive interviews, which, because of the nature of the book, had to be quoted at length. She ended up paying her full advance to have the interviews transcribed. Still another guy, a writer for Billboard, the leading music trade paper, wrote a book on one of the great bands in rock & roll history. He had great hopes for it; there wasn't any other book on that band, and he thought his study would be the standard reference. He ended up paying nearly his full advance for permission to reprint lyrics from the band's songs. John, I realize I'm going on about this at great length. The reason, I think, is that you're treating me with the same disrespect you show Budd Hopkins. I made a point you don't understand. It happens to be about a field I made my living in for 15 years -- writing -- so possibly I know what I'm talking about. Possibly, though, I didn't express myself clearly. So, for whatever reason, what I said didn't make sense to you. Your response, with your trademark grin, was to say I'm being ridiculous. Would it occur to you to ask questions before you shoot off your attack? "Greg," you might say. "Your comment doesn't make sense to me. You appear to be saying that someone who makes money is really losing it. I know you're not <that> stupid. Would you clarify what you mean?" And while I'm at it, I notice that in another post, you took a shot at journalists. I'd tried to explain how phrases like "self-claimed" are commonly used, and what they commonly imply. My examples were from journalism. Your response (which, I must say, completely ignored the specifics of what I was saying) was: > n the two examples above you've based them on the legendary attention > to detail and accuracy of American journalism - I suggest that as > unbiased researchers we can achieve a somewhat higher level of attention > to detail and accuracy....<GRIN> And then: > Make that four examples, one of which has fraudulent undertones, > revolving around the above-reproach work product of American > media...<grin> And finally: > Now you seem to prefer to > have us use the standards of American journalism as the basis for our > terminology selection. First, I take this as a personal attack, intended or not, because I've worked for years as a journalist. Would you care to debate the accuracy of my own work (which you don't know a thing about)? Mainly, though...what broad, sweeping statements you make! Let's leave aside the not-so-small matter that you've misunderstood and often ridiculed much of what I've said to you. But now you wave your hands in the air, and invoke what you seem to believe is a universally-shared opinion -- that American journalism has laughably low standards. You don't even feel you need to demonstrate your point; you just figure that everyone will know you're right. So exactly what American journalism are you talking about? The Wall Street Journal's meticulous and scathing coverage of tobacco companies? Tim Weiner's careful research into the Pentagon's black budget, done first as a series for the Philadelphia Inquirer, and then expanded into his book Blank Check? Jeez...even Entertainment Weekly, where I once worked, has done outstanding reporting. As a rule, they publish fluff and gossip, much like their sister publication People. But while I was there, they did a very careful and revealing series on sexual harassment in the entertainment industry, and another on the impact of AIDS on Hollywood. More recently, they showed the extent of heroin addiction among younger entertainment stars, a subject nobody else had been willing to touch, or at least not to the depth they took it. It's just silly to tar all journalism with a few scathing phrases, as if Geraldo Rivera had suddenly become Washington correspondent for the New York Times. There's good and bad in journalism. just as there is in anything else. I could tell you stories of the bad that might well outdo anything you know about, but I can tell you plenty of good I'm seen first-hand as well. Overall -- both from what I've seen myself and from what I read -- I'd say the standards are reasonably good (with big exceptions here and there, and with the necesssary qualification that print is better than TV, and that newspapers, on the whole, are better
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Wormwood? From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:29:36 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 03:47:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? * Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> wrote: > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 03:55:06 -0500 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Wormwood? > In respect of the anonymous message posted about some kind of Vatican > computer link to the Hubble Space Telescope. > Andrew Pike's article, plus Night Sky Guide for September/October '96, > arrived early August. The issue itself appeared on the newsstands > here in the UK on Thursday, 29 August. I quote: > HEAVENS ABOVE! > IT PROBABLY COMES AS NO SURPRISE TO LEARN NASA HAVE SEVERAL HUNDRED > UNRELEASED PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THE HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE. > RUMOURS ARE CURRENTLY CIRCULATING IN THE WORLD OF ASTRONOMY THAT ONE > TAKEN ON 26 MARCH 1996, AND BEING HELD BACK, SHOWS A WHITE CITY OF > MASSIVE PROPORTIONS JUST FLOATING IN DEEP SPACE, REMINISCENT OF > HEAVEN! [...] > I draw this article to your attention because it is the only boni-fide > and authenticated reference from a named source (Andrew Pike) which > includes the Pope, Hubble Space Telescope and a mysterious object in > space. It does not purport to give credence to the claims submitted > by the anonymous "Priest" but it does pose some interesting questions. Sorry, Graham. Andrew's "scoop" was based on a load of old tosh from the Canadian version of the magazine that gives tabloids a bad name, the "Weekly World News". (Anybody else remember their "Aliens Ate My Laundry" story?) [...] > Food for thought - consigned to the waste basket, or the > "grey" basket? The waste basket - immediately. - John ====================================================================== >From: Weekly World News newspaper (Canada). >Date: April 30th, 1996. HUBBLE TELESCOPE TAKES PHOTO OF HEAVEN Incredible image beamed to NASA on March 26th. Pope John Paul II has requested copies of the Hubble Telescope photographs. By Ron Kinton Washington - NASA scientists are studying hundreds of amazing images sent to Earth by the Hubble Space Telescope - and will soon announce the pictures are the first-ever photographs of Heaven. That's the word from author and researcher Marcia Masson, who quoted highly placed NASA insiders as having said that the telescope beamed the photos back to the command center at Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., on March 26th. The pictures clearly show a vast white city floating eerily in the blackness of space. And the expert quoted NASA sources as saying that the city is definately Heaven "because life as we know it couldn't possibly exist in icy, airless space." "This is it - this is the proof we've been waiting for," Dr Masson told reporters. "Through an enormous stroke of luck, NASA aimed the Hubble Telescope at precisely the right time to capture these images on film. I'm not particularly religious, but I don't doubt that somebody or something influenced the decision to aim the telescope at that particular area of space." "Was that someone or something God Himself? Given the vastness of the universe, and all the places NASA could have targeted for study, that would certainly appear to be the case." "NASA spokesmen declined to comment on the author's report "pending further analysis of the photographs received on March 26th." In spite of official silence, agency insiders conceded that NASA "has discovered something that might alter the future of all mankind." They also confirmed that President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore have taken a keen personal interest in the photographs and have requested daily briefings. Dr. Masson said: "The Hubble Space Telescope was designed to photograph images as far away as the edge of the universe but a lens flaw prevented it from doing so until shuttle astronauts corrected the defect during a recent mission. "When they finished their work, the telescope trained it's enormous eye on the outer reaches of the universe." "From what I understand, the first images it received were nothing more than kaleidoscope bursts of color and light." "As adjustments were made, and the focus sharpened, NASA analysts couldn't believe their eyes." "After checking and re-checking the data, they concluded that the images were authentic. They also theorized that the city couldn't possibly be inhabited by life as we know it." "The only logical explanation was that the city was inhabited by the souls of the dead. As one of my sources put it, 'We found where God lives.'" It has been rumoured that the space agency has forwarded photographs to Pope John Paul II at his request, but Vatican sources will neither confirm or deny it. Dr. Masson, who obtained copies of a single photograph from her NASA sources, says the space agency's next move "will be most revealing." "This is a chance for NASA to come clean with the public and tell us everything it knows," she said. ====================================================================== -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....|
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Wormwood? From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:29:36 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 03:58:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? * Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> wrote: > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 03:55:06 -0500 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Wormwood? > In respect of the anonymous message posted about some kind of Vatican > computer link to the Hubble Space Telescope. > Andrew Pike's article, plus Night Sky Guide for September/October '96, > arrived early August. The issue itself appeared on the newsstands > here in the UK on Thursday, 29 August. I quote: > HEAVENS ABOVE! > IT PROBABLY COMES AS NO SURPRISE TO LEARN NASA HAVE SEVERAL HUNDRED > UNRELEASED PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THE HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE. > RUMOURS ARE CURRENTLY CIRCULATING IN THE WORLD OF ASTRONOMY THAT ONE > TAKEN ON 26 MARCH 1996, AND BEING HELD BACK, SHOWS A WHITE CITY OF > MASSIVE PROPORTIONS JUST FLOATING IN DEEP SPACE, REMINISCENT OF > HEAVEN! [...] > I draw this article to your attention because it is the only boni-fide > and authenticated reference from a named source (Andrew Pike) which > includes the Pope, Hubble Space Telescope and a mysterious object in > space. It does not purport to give credence to the claims submitted > by the anonymous "Priest" but it does pose some interesting questions. Sorry, Graham. Andrew's "scoop" was based on a load of old tosh from the Canadian version of the magazine that gives tabloids a bad name, the "Weekly World News". (Anybody else remember their "Aliens Ate My Laundry" story?) [...] > Food for thought - consigned to the waste basket, or the > "grey" basket? The waste basket - immediately. - John ====================================================================== >From: Weekly World News newspaper (Canada). >Date: April 30th, 1996. HUBBLE TELESCOPE TAKES PHOTO OF HEAVEN Incredible image beamed to NASA on March 26th. Pope John Paul II has requested copies of the Hubble Telescope photographs. By Ron Kinton Washington - NASA scientists are studying hundreds of amazing images sent to Earth by the Hubble Space Telescope - and will soon announce the pictures are the first-ever photographs of Heaven. That's the word from author and researcher Marcia Masson, who quoted highly placed NASA insiders as having said that the telescope beamed the photos back to the command center at Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., on March 26th. The pictures clearly show a vast white city floating eerily in the blackness of space. And the expert quoted NASA sources as saying that the city is definately Heaven "because life as we know it couldn't possibly exist in icy, airless space." "This is it - this is the proof we've been waiting for," Dr Masson told reporters. "Through an enormous stroke of luck, NASA aimed the Hubble Telescope at precisely the right time to capture these images on film. I'm not particularly religious, but I don't doubt that somebody or something influenced the decision to aim the telescope at that particular area of space." "Was that someone or something God Himself? Given the vastness of the universe, and all the places NASA could have targeted for study, that would certainly appear to be the case." "NASA spokesmen declined to comment on the author's report "pending further analysis of the photographs received on March 26th." In spite of official silence, agency insiders conceded that NASA "has discovered something that might alter the future of all mankind." They also confirmed that President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore have taken a keen personal interest in the photographs and have requested daily briefings. Dr. Masson said: "The Hubble Space Telescope was designed to photograph images as far away as the edge of the universe but a lens flaw prevented it from doing so until shuttle astronauts corrected the defect during a recent mission. "When they finished their work, the telescope trained it's enormous eye on the outer reaches of the universe." "From what I understand, the first images it received were nothing more than kaleidoscope bursts of color and light." "As adjustments were made, and the focus sharpened, NASA analysts couldn't believe their eyes." "After checking and re-checking the data, they concluded that the images were authentic. They also theorized that the city couldn't possibly be inhabited by life as we know it." "The only logical explanation was that the city was inhabited by the souls of the dead. As one of my sources put it, 'We found where God lives.'" It has been rumoured that the space agency has forwarded photographs to Pope John Paul II at his request, but Vatican sources will neither confirm or deny it. Dr. Masson, who obtained copies of a single photograph from her NASA sources, says the space agency's next move "will be most revealing." "This is a chance for NASA to come clean with the public and tell us everything it knows," she said. ====================================================================== -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....|
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: UFO UpDate: Wormwood? From: cs147@glen-net.ca (Cory Cameron) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:27:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 03:59:57 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Wormwood? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Wormwood? >Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:42:18 -0500 >>From: HoustonSky@aol.com >>Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 02:49:00 -0500 >>To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) >>Subject: Wormwood? >>Posted on the Art Bell website... http://www.artbell.com >>From: Name@Withheld >>To: artbell@aol.com >>Date: 96-12-11 00:33:29 EST >>Dear Mr. Bell, >>I have listened to your program off and on for around two years now, >>whenever I get "down-time". I have some disturbing information and I felt >>that your program would be the perfect vehicle with which to distribute >>what I have. >The "priest" has that right! >>I have been under the employ of the Vatican for over five years. I >>have done what could best be described as counter-intelligence work, for >>>the church. >NEWSFLASH! >Renegade priest runs from Popes 'hit men' >Former secret agent Father Ignatious De Plata, who posseses a 'doubled >cross' Vatican security clearance (License to convert!) is running from the >dredded Vatican death squads. This elite band of highly trained >sharpshooting priests acting under direct orders from the Pontiff himself >are scouring the globe for Fr."Iggy", as he was fondly known to his devoted >congregation of senior citizens over in Killarny. >"Our orders are to hunt him down and kill him, oh, and the Pope said that I >was to be sure to administer 'Last Rites' (before) disposing of the body," >said one of the Pontiff's trained killers. When questioned as to why, the >swarthy priest responded that, "He's going to spill his guts about >something important that the Pope wants kept quiet, on the Art Bell show." >Well, that seems justification enough for this reporter! We wish the Pope >and his death dealing 'Emmisaries of the Lord, "Good luck boys, and happy >hunting! Nail that S>O>B> before he starts the machinery of Art Bells rumor >mill humming again!" >Good night and good news, Walter Crankcase reporting. >HEE-HAW >John Velez > > jvif@spacelab.net > "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" >http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html Way to go John, it's nice to read something like that... Friend from North, Cory.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:40:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:02:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Regarding... >Date: 14 Dec 96 17:10:05 EST >From: James Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance James Diss wrote: >James wrote to Theresa regarding the AA film.... Roswell Footage Ltd. lost a minuscule percentage of income...< >1) Have you seen the end of year accounts for this company? According to Companies House, accounts for the year ended 31 March 1995 have been submitted, but for a dormant company - in other words, Roswell Footage Limited (Ltd.) did not actually trade during that period. On 15 February 1996, Roswell Footage Ltd. became Orbital Media Ltd. Before the company became Roswell Footage Ltd., it was apparently known as Cashgrow Trading Company Ltd., then became International Exploitation Management Ltd. They really need to speak to someone about their PR. ;) According to a report I have obtained from ICC Directory UK, the issued share capital of Orbital Media Ltd. is a token two pounds. >2) Why was the name changed after 6 months trading? I'm sure Ray said somewhere that "the film has run its course", or similar, and I guess Roswell Footage Ltd. had served its purpose. >3) Do the copyrights still hold? Did they ever hold... ;) >4) Convictions!?!?! Well, there was that unfortunate misunderstanding... oh, you mean the directors of Roswell Footage Ltd. No known convictions, but one interesting development; Tentcrest Ltd., the parent company of The Merlin Group, Ray's company which was initially involved with the footage, went into liquidation in October this year. The initial directors of Roswell Footage Ltd. were Ray Santilli and Gary Shoefield, but there were two changes of directors, on 22 January this year, whilst it was still known by that name and on the 21 November, when it was Orbital Media Ltd. and just after Tentcrest Ltd. went into liquidation. It's all peripheral, but I've ordered from Companies House a copy of the directors listing. Just for the record, I'd be interested to know what the changes were and I'll pass that on if it's on any conceivable relevance. James. Internet; 100626.2242@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Tastes Like Chicken... From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:52:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:03:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Tastes Like Chicken... ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Tastes Like Chicken... > Date: Monday, December 16, 1996 12:53 PM > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:39:05 -0600 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> > Subject: Tastes Like Chicken... > Something from the other side of engineering practicality... > Subject: chicken > Author: Susan Turner at CorpSoftDallas > Date: 9/19/96 6:35 PM > The FAA reviewed the test thoroughly and had one recommendation: > "Use a thawed chicken." > Sometimes even the facts are difficult to understand. ROTFL! Thanks for the knee slapper Glenn! <grin> It's good as ever to see your typeface. Kindest Regards and the best of Holiday Seasons to You Yours and Bill's. Clarke Hathaway Check out: http:/www.the-bridge.org/hathaway
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 AUFORA News Update, Monday, December 16th, 1996 From: AUFORA News Update <dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:49:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:04:58 -0500 Subject: AUFORA News Update, Monday, December 16th, 1996 AUFORA News Update Monday, December 16th, 1996 <www.helios.org> ___________________________ DISCOVERY SUPPORTS MARTIAN LIFE THEORY from the Daily Telegraph Helios Science News <www.helios.org> LONDON - The scientists who claimed last August to have found evidence of life on Mars have announced that they have strengthened their case. One of the main criticisms of the claims, based on studies of the meteorite rock ALH 84001, was that organisms so small - only one hundredth the diameter of a human hair in length - had never been recorded on Earth. Now US scientists led by Dr. Everett Gibson of NASA's Johnson Space Centre in Houston, Tex., in collaboration with a British team led by Prof. Colin Pillinger of the Open University, have found "nanobacteria" living two kilometres down in the basalt rock of the Columbia River Valley. They are to present their findings in a lecture given at Gresham College in London this week. "The beautiful thing is the story appears to be holding together," Gibson said. The team also reported evidence that the carbonates found in ALH 84001 did not contaminate it by seeping in from the Antarctic ice where the meteorite was discovered but formed on Mars 3.6 billion years ago. Clues to past life are turning up in other rock samples from outer space. Pillinger found that several other specimens shared five or six chemical properties of ALH 84001, including evidence of organic compounds. __________________ AUFORA News Update News, Information, Facts from the world of UFOlogy To subscribe send e-mail to: dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ Helios Science News: http://www.helios.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:19:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:04:10 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 14:12:06 -0500 > From: "Scott K. Hale" <shale@megalinx.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > References: <2.2.32.19961216192717.006d54bc@globalserve.net> Regarding the Dr. Willy Smith, UNICAT PROJECT, analysis: > > That makes the entire memo bogus. The step-by-step > > analysis was published in JUST CAUSE, No. 27, March 1991. I suggest you > > find a copy and read it. You won't find it in Friedman's new book. > I am very interested in the copy of Just Cause you mentioned. Contact for JUST CAUSE is: CAUS Box 176 Stoneham, MA 02180 Subscriptions are $15.00 for US, $20.00 for foreign. They also make available back issues. It is edited and published by Barry Greenwood, co-author of "Clear Intent" which is still in print and available at book stores under the title "The UFO Cover-Up" by Larry Fawcett and Barry Greenwood. > Could you please be so kind as to mail me a copy? If it is possible > for you to do this, please respond to the group and I will e-mail > you my snail mail > address. Since it is still available from the source and Barry Greenwood uses JUST CAUSE to help defray some costs associated with his current research, I think it would be much more appropriate for you to secure an original from him. Not only will you be getting an original, but also helping some good research efforts. If I was to honor one request, I would have to honor all. I don't have the resources and the time to do that. MJ-12 is not a focus of my research interests in ufology and I spend most of my time in other areas which I consider to be more worthwhile research and not a distraction to ufology. > Do we know that Mr. Klass started with the date that the memo > was supposedly written in the archives? If he didn't, it doesn't solve > how he found the signature. Most of the damaging evidence that shows the MJ-12 documents to be bogus came from researchers within ufology and not from members of the skeptical community. Most of that research from within ufology was presented in issues of JUST CAUSE as the evidence was accumulated and reported. At the end of this message, I have included a bibliography of the UFO literature based on UFO magazine, IUR, The MUFON Journal, and JUST CAUSE, that shows how the MJ-12 saga was presented in the UFO periodical literature from wishful thinking that MJ-12 could be the smoking gun for ufology to the realization that it was nothing more than a distraction to more serious research efforts. Focusing on Klass is but a distraction away from the real issues: substantive evidence/lack of substantive evidence regarding the alleged MJ-12 documents. That is why you won't find any references to Klass articles in the bibliography I have included below. Arguments that the only objections to MJ-12 have come from the debunking community is a false appeal to the gallery. Most of the nails on the coffin of MJ-12 have come from independent research by well-established and respected members of the UFO community that have made worthwhile contributions to our understanding of UFO phenomena. > Isn't it important to find out who faked the > document(IF it was faked)? If the document is fraudulent, it doesn't > make the document less important. Obviously, whoever may have faked the > document would have to take a great deal of time doing it. Just some > thoughts. The genesis/provenance of the documents is definitely important. Since the promoters of the MJ-12 documents have not established one iota of real evidence to support any linkage of any real person, real meeting, real program to the alleged MJ-12 documents, one would think that establishing the genesis/provenance of the documents would be paramount in their research efforts. Instead, they have avoided it with a passion. It is up to those that claim the MJ-12 documents to be real to establish the genesis/provenance of the documents. Hope this helps you in your research efforts. Ed Stewart ---------- A CHRONOLOGICAL LISTING OF MJ-12 AS SEEN THROUGH THE PAGES OF IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), JUST CAUSE, MUFON UFO JOURNAL, AND UFO MAGAZINE compiled by Ed Stewart 8/6/96 DATE PUBLICATION/AUTHOR/TITLE ---- --------------------------------------------------------------- 12/85 CAUS BULLETIN, No. 2, pp. 2-2, Fawcett, Larry (ed.), Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "[Copy Of The So-Called "Aquarius" Document]" 12/85 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 6, pp. 1-8, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "MJ12: Myth Or Reality?" 07/86 CAUS BULLETIN, No. 5, pp. 2-2, Fawcett, Larry (ed.), Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Project Aquarius Confirmed?" 12/86 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 10, pp. 2-4, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Addendum Of "Aquarius" And Stealth" 87 UFO, Vol. 2, No. 3, pp. 4-5, Cooper, Vicki (ed.), Stark, Sherie (ed.), "News: 'MJ-12' Nails 'Cover-Up'" 87 UFO, Vol. 2, No. 4, pp. 6-7, Cooper, Vicki (ed.), Stark, Sherie (ed.), "Official Disclosures Hover On Horizon - Panel Foresees Government 'Uncover-Up'" 03/87 CAUS BULLETIN, No. 7, pp. 2-3, Fawcett, Larry (ed.), Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Flash Flash Flash Flash...[On Aquarius]" 06/87 CAUS BULLETIN, No. 8, pp. 1-1, Fawcett, Larry (ed.), Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "The Aquarius See-Saw" 06/87 CAUS BULLETIN, No. 8, pp. 3-3, Fawcett, Larry (ed.), Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "[Copy Of PROJECT AQUARIUS COVER SHEET]" 06/87 CAUS BULLETIN, No. 8, pp. 4-4, Fawcett, Larry (ed.), Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "[Copy Of Cutler/Twining Memorandum]" 06/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 12, pp. 2-3, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Confirmation Of MJ-12?" 06/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 12, pp. 3-4, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "MJ-12 Yet Again?" 07/87 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 231, pp. 11-15, Moore, William L., "Majestic - 12" 09/87 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 12, No. 5, pp. 13-20, Friedman, Stanton T., "MJ-12: The Evidence So Far" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 01-02, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "The MJ-12 Fiasco" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 02-07, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "The Documents" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 10-10, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 1 [Executive Briefing Subject: Project Aquarius]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 11-11, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 2 [Blank Cover Sheet Executive Correspondence]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 12-12, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 3 [CIA "MJ5" Memo]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 13-13, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 4 [Letter From Martin M. Teasley, Assistant Director Eisenhower Library, August 7, 1987]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 14-14, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 5A [Special Classified Executive Order #092447]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 14-14, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 5B [Truman/Forrestal Memorandum, September 24, 1947]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 15-15, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 6 [Letter From Benedict K. Zobrist, Director Truman Library]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 15-15, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 7 [06 December, 1950 Report Of A UFO Crash]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 16-16, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 8 [Cutler/Twining Memo, July 14, 1954]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 17-18, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 9 [Letter: Martin M. Teasley, Assistant Director Eisenhower Library, July 13, 1987]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 19-21, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 10 [Letter: Reference Report On MJ-12, July 22, 1987, Jo Ann Williamson, Chief, Military Reference Branch, National Archives]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 22-22, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 11 [Sample Of Press Coverage On MJ-12]" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 7-8, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Discussion" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 8-9, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "A Disturbing Revelation" 09/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 13, pp. 9-9, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Final Word" 11/87 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 235, pp. 9-11, Clark, Jerome, "MJ-12 Jury Still Out" 12/87 CAUS BULLETIN, No. 9, pp. 2-4, Howe, Linda Moulton, "Letter: [On Meeting With Special Agent Richard Doty on April 1983/MJ-12 Connection]" 12/87 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 14, pp. 1-2, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Editorial" 12/87 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 236, pp. 10-16, Greenwood, Barry J., "MJ-12 Magic Act" 01/88 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 13, No. 1, pp. 20-24, Friedman, Stanton T., "The Secret Life Of Donald H. Menzel" 01/88 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 237, pp. 21-21, Farish, Lucius, "In Others' Words: OMNI, 1987/11, Anti-Matter/UFO Update On MJ-12 Controversy" 03/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 15, pp. 1-2, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Editorial" 03/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 15, pp. 2-5, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "CAUS Response [To Stan Friedman's 36 Point List]" 03/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 15, pp. 6-6, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "James S. Lay Letter, July 14, 1954" 03/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 15, pp. 7-8, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Stanton T. Friedman's 10/12/87 Basic Assumptions Of CAUS" 03/88 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 239, pp. 23-23, Clark, Jerome, "Letter: [On "MJ-12 Jury Still Out]" 05/88 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 13, No. 3, pp. 12-17, Friedman, Stanton T., "MJ-12 Debunking Fiasco" 05/88 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 13, No. 3, pp. 24-24, Forsythe, Scott M., "Letter: Secret Lives" 05/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 2, pp. 8-8, Cooper, Vicki (ed.), Stark, Sherie (ed.), "Expert Validation of MJ-12 Memo" 05/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 2, pp. 8-8, Maccabbee, Bruce S., "A Question Of Motive" 06/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 16, pp. 1-1, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Editorial" 06/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 16, pp. 2-4, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Letter From Richard Doty, 3/3/88" 06/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 16, pp. 5-5, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Notarized Declaration By Linda Moulton Howe" 06/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 16, pp. 6-6, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Letter From Linda Moulton Howe To Richard Doty, May 14, 1983" 06/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 16, pp. 7-7, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Peter Gersten's Version Of Meetings With Richard Doty January 1983" 07/88 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 13, No. 4, pp. 19-19, Wescott, Roger W., "Letter: Statement From Roger Wescott" 07/88 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 13, No. 4, pp. 24-24, Parks, Brian, "Letter: MJ-12" 07/88 MUFON 1988 INTERNATIONAL UFO SYMPOSIUM PROCEEDINGS: ABDUCTIONS AND THE E.T. HYPOTHESIS, pp. 205-241, Moore, William L., Friedman, Stanton T., "MJ-12 And Phil Klass: What Are The Facts?" 07/88 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 243, pp. 16-17, Bletchman, Robert H., "Linguistics Expert Vouches For MJ-12 Briefing Paper" 07/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 03-03, Friedman, Stanton T., "Letter: [On MJ-12 Article UFO, Vol.3, No. 2" 07/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 06-07, Cooper, Vicki (ed.), Stark, Sherie (ed.), "People: In Focus...Lee Graham" 07/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 26-31, Cooper, Vicki, "Stalking The 'Ultimate Secret' - Ufologists Encounter 'Intelligence' Maze" 07/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 30-30, Cooper, Vicki, "MJ-12 Climax? Stand By!" 07/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 31-31, Cooper, Vicki, "Adventures At Kirtland" 07/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 32-37, Friedman, Stanton T., "Document Digging: Research Challenge To Media" 07/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 35-35, Friedman, Stanton T., "UFO Debunker, CIA Hired Hand: Mystery Man Of MJ-12" 09/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 4, pp. 3-3, Lewis, Gerald, "Letter: [On Hopes For MJ-12]" 11/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 5, pp. 4-4, Ecker, Don, "News: Alien Briefing For Ex-Spies" 11/88 UFO, Vol. 3, No. 5, pp. 5-5, Cooper, Vicki (ed.), "Alleged Government Documents: Funds Sought For MJ-12 Investigation" 12/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 18, pp. 4-5, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "MJ-12 Update [On Dr. Wescott]" 12/88 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 18, pp. 5-5, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "UFO Cover Up - Live!" 01/89 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 249, pp. 8-9, Moore, William L., "MJ-12: An Open Letter" 03/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 19, pp. 3-3, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "FBI Opinion On MJ-12" 03/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 19, pp. 3-4, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "More On MJ-12" 03/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 19, pp. 5-6, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "MJ-12 In Japan?" 03/89 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 251, pp. 21-21, Maccabee, Bruce S., "Letter: [On MUFON's Support Of Stanton Friedman's Research On MJ-12]" 03/89 UFO, Vol. 4, No. 1, pp. 3-3, Friedman, Stanton T., "Letter: [On Visiting Archives]" 06/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 20, pp. 3-4, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "MJ-12 Update" 06/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 20, pp. 8-8, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Letter From Edward J. Reese, Military Reference Branch, National Archives" 06/89 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 254, pp. 3-11, Hastings, Robert, "MJ-12 Affair, The: Facts, Questions, Comments" 07/89 MUFON 1989 INTERNATIONAL UFO SYMPOSIUM PROCEEDINGS: THE UFO COVER UP: A GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY?, No. , pp. 81-112, Friedman, Stanton T., "Update On Operation Majestic-12" 08/89 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 256, pp. 14-16, Sider, Jean, Bullard, Thomas E. (trans.), "Majestic & Moore: Not Guilty!" 09/89 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 14, No. 5, pp. 3-3, Clark, Jerome, "Editorial: Wild Goose" 09/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 21, pp. 1-9, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "A Majestic Deception" 09/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 21, pp. 10-10, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Final Word" 09/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 21, pp. 11-12, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 1 [The Craig Weitzel Letter]" 09/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 21, pp. 13-13, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 2 [AFOSI Summary of Kirtland AFB 13 Aug 80 Incident]" 09/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 21, pp. 14-14, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Exhibit 3 [AFOSI Summary of Kirtland AFB 8 Aug-3 Sep 80 Sightings]" 09/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 21, pp. 15-16, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Letter From Stanton T. Friedman On Just Cause, Number 20, June 1989 Re Majestic 12, Dated 7/19/89" 09/89 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 21, pp. 9-10, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Alternative Motives?" 09/89 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 257, pp. 16-17, Friedman, Stanton T., "FUFOR Progress Report - MJ-12" 09/89 UFO, Vol. 4, No. 4, pp. 4-5, Cooper, Vicki (ed.), Stark, Sherie (ed.), "News: UFO Researcher's 'Confessional' - Disinformation Ploy Revealed" 10/89 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 258, pp. 25-26, Mauge, Claude, "Letter: [On Robert Hastings On MJ-12]" 01/90 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 261, pp. 15-16, Crain, T. Scott Jr., "MJ-12 Informant, An" 01/90 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 261, pp. 17-20, Todd, Robert G., "MJ-12 Rebuttal" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 14-14, Moore, William L., "Forum: Discussing The Disinformers [Bill Moore]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 15-15, Greenwood, Barry, "Forum: Discussing The Disinformers [Bill Moore]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 15-15, Schaffner, Ron, "Forum: Discussing The Disinformers [Bill Moore]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 15-16, Friedman, Stanton, "Forum: Discussing The Disinformers [Bill Moore]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 16-16, Graham, Lee, "Forum: Discussing The Disinformers [Bill Moore]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 16-16, Jamieson, Michael, "Forum: Discussing The Disinformers [Bill Moore]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 17-17, Cooper, Vicki, "Forum: Discussing The Disinformers [Bill Moore]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 17-17, Smith, Robert, "Forum: Discussing The Disinformers [Bill Moore]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1, pp. 17-18, Sheridan, Sally, "Forum: Discussing The Disinformers [Bill Moore]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 2, pp. 03-03, Parks, Brian, "Letter: [On Forum Observations in UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 2, pp. 03-03, Todd, Robert G., "Letter: [On Stanton Friedman's Observations in UFO, Vol. 5, No. 1]" 01/90 UFO, Vol. 5, No. 2, pp. 10-11, Allan, Christopher D., "Forum: U.S. Government And Disinformation: Not Guilty" 03/90 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 15, No. 2, pp. 04-12, Nickell, Joe, Fischer, John F., "The Crashed-Saucer Forgeries" 03/90 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 15, No. 2, pp. 13-16, Friedman, Stanton T., "MJ-12: The Jury Is Still Out" 03/90 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 15, No. 2, pp. 17-20, Moore, William L., "Innocent On All Counts" 03/90 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 15, No. 2, pp. 24-24, Maron, Gene, "Letter: Disinformation" 03/90 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 23, pp. 1-3, Todd, Robert G., "Another "Smoking Gun"?" 03/90 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 23, pp. 10-10, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Letter From Frank H. Batten, Jr, Chief, FOIA/PA Release Branch, Bolling Air Force Base" 03/90 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 23, pp. 4-5, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "On Timothy Good's Source Of The MJ-12 Briefing Paper" 03/90 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 23, pp. 6-8, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Briefing Document Pages 001-003 From FOCUS, April 30, 1987" 03/90 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 23, pp. 9-9, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Briefing Document Pages 001-003 From ABOVE TOP SECRET By Timothy Good, pgs. 541-543, (British Edition)" 04/90 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 264, pp. 7-9, Friedman, Stanton T., "MJ-12: Rebutting A Rebuttal" 05/90 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 15, No. 3, pp. 15-15, Todd, Robert G., "A Forum On MJ-12" 05/90 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 15, No. 3, pp. 15-16, Rodeghier, Mark, "A Forum On MJ-12" 05/90 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 15, No. 3, pp. 16-17, Greenwood, Barry, "A Forum On MJ-12" 05/90 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 15, No. 3, pp. 17-17, Maccabee, Bruce, "A Forum On MJ-12" 06/90 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 24, pp. 3-7, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "On Dating Abnormalities By MJ-12 Proponents" 07/90 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 267, pp. 11-11, Stacy, Dennis W. (ed.), "News'n'Views - MJ-12 Report" 09/90 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 25, pp. 1-4, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Out There" 09/90 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 25, pp. 5-5, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Editorial [On Critical Coverage Of MJ-12 By JUST CAUSE]" 09/90 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 25, pp. 6-6, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "FUND Releases MJ-12 Report" 01/91 UFO, Vol. 6, No. 1, pp. 30-32, Hall, Richard H., "In Defense Of MJ-12" 03/91 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 27, pp. 5-8, Smith, Dr. Willy, "A Critical Commentary [On Truman Signature]" 03/91 UFO, Vol. 6, No. 2, pp. 31-33, Cooper, Vicki, "Is It A UFO Project? The Strange Case Of Aquarius 'D'" 03/91 UFO, Vol. 6, No. 2, pp. 35-36, Stacy, Dennis, "Book Reviews: "The MJ-12 Documents - An Analytical Report" By William L. Moore And Jaime H. Shandera" 04/91 MUFON UFO JOURNAL, No. 276, pp. 18-19, Crain, T. Scott Jr., "News'n'Views - The Book On MJ-12" 05/91 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 16, No. 3, pp. 12-13, Spickler, Ted R., "The Truman MJ-12 Letter" 05/91 UFO, Vol. 6, No. 3, pp. 3-3, Parks, Brian, "Letter: [On Article "Strange Case Of Aquarius D." UFO, Vol. 6, No. 2]" 09/91 UFO, Vol. 6, No. 5, pp. 39-39, Cooper, Vicki, "Book Review: "UFOs, MJ-12 And The Government - A Report On Government Involvement In UFO Crash Retrievals" By Grant Cameron And T. Scott Crain" 12/91 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 30, pp. 1-5, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Document Fakery" 01/92 UFO, Vol. 7, No. 1, pp. 11-12, Ecker, Don, "News Commentary: Source Confesses Role As 'Controlled Informant'" 01/92 UFO, Vol. 7, No. 1, pp. 5-5, Crain, T. Scott Jr., "Letter: [On Review of "UFOs, MJ-12 And The Government"]" 01/92 UFO, Vol. 7, No. 1, pp. 8-10, Graham, Lee, "Full Nine Pages: The Aquarius Document" 07/92 MUFON 1992 INTERNATIONAL UFO SYMPOSIUM PROCEEDINGS: UFOs: THE ULTIMATE MYSTERY OF THE MILLENNIA, No. , pp. 68-87, Friedman, Stanton T., "Crashed Saucers, Majestic-12 And The Debunkers" 07/92 UFO, Vol. 7, No. 4, pp. 13-14, Hall, Richard H., "Hall's Corner [Re: Personal Skepticism On MJ-12]" 09/92 UFO, Vol. 7, No. 5, pp. 10-11, Hall, Richard H., "Hall's Corner [Re: Activities of Richard Doty And Bill Moore]" 11/92 UFO, Vol. 7, No. 6, pp. 9-9, Hall, Richard H., "Hall's Corner [Re: MJ-12 Documentation and Bill Moore/Richard Doty's Roles]" 05/93 UFO, Vol. 8, No. 3, pp. 5-5, Ecker, Don, "MJ-12 'Suspected Forgery,' Air Force Says" 03/94 UFO, Vol. 9, No. 2, pp. 40-41, Friedman, Stanton T., "Researchers Can't Agree On Case's Validity: Crash At San Agustin [MJ-12 And The Plains Crash Paragraph]" 09/94 JUST CAUSE (NEW SERIES), No. 41, pp. 8-8, Greenwood, Barry (ed.), "Air Force Reacts Officially To Bogus Documents" 01/95 UFO, Vol. 10, No. 1, pp. 25-27, Graham, Lee, Regehr, Ron, "Going By The Rules" 01/95 UFO, Vol. 10, No. 1, pp. 27-27, Cooper-Ecker, Vicki (ed.), "Moore's The Pitiful" 01/95 UFO, Vol. 10, No. 1, pp. 28-32, Westwood, James T., "Questioning Documents" 05/95 UFO, Vol. 10, No. 3, pp. 7-7, Allan, Christopher D., "Letter: File This "Unclassified"" 05/95 UFO, Vol. 10, No. 3, pp. 7-7, Friedman, Stanton T., "Letter: MJ-12 Is Real!" 11/95 UFO, Vol. 48, No. 6, pp. 7-7, Cooper-Ecker, Vicki (ed.), "Friedman Announcement [Marshall Memo]" 03/96 IUR (INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER) (CUFOS), Vol. 21, No. 1, pp. 9-10, Randle, Kevin D., "The MJ-12 Operations Manual: Another Forgery? For Available back issues in stock and current subscription information: IUR (quarterly) J. Allen Hynek Center For UFO Studies 2457 West Peterson Avenue Chicago, IL 60659 Rates: $25 US, $30 Foreign JUST CAUSE (quarterly) CAUS Box 176 Stoneham, MA 02180 Rates: $15 US, $20 Foreign MUFON UFO JOURNAL (monthly) Mutual UFO Network, Inc., 103 Oldtowne Rd. Seguin, TX 78155-4099 Rates: $30 US, $30 Foreign UFO MAGAZINE (bi-monthly) UFO Magazine P.O. Box 1053 Sunland, CA 91041 Rates: $25 US, $32 Foreign -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------ Search for other documents from or mentioning: egs | shale |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 CNN's 'Mystery Ball' Story From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:30:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:30:50 -0500 Subject: CNN's 'Mystery Ball' Story From: CNN Interactive's Sci-Tech Area http://cnn.com/TECH/9612/17/mystery.ball.ap/index.html It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a mystery ball! December 17, 1996 Web posted at: 2:30 a.m. EST SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A mysterious glowing ball of light traveling 1/100th the speed of light has been spotted and videotaped in the earth's upper atmosphere, but what it is has scientists puzzled. Brief footage of the image, which appeared for about 3/100th of a second at an estimated height of 80 kilometers, was presented publicly for the first time Monday at the fall meeting of the American Geophysical Union. In a six-frame sequence, the object can clearly be seen crossing upwards and left across the field of view, while retaining its shape and intense glow. "It's the first and only event of this kind photographed to my knowledge," said Dr. Dean A. Morss, assistant professor of Atmospheric Sciences at Creighton University in Nebraska. Morss is heading a research project designed to videotape luminous electrical phenomena, called sprites, in the upper atmosphere. 'Clearly moving' Scientists were observing a region of thunderstorm activity in western Kansas from a ground observation point in Nebraska when the mystery ball appeared. Navy Lt. Paul McCrone, a graduate student at Creighton, videotaped the image on August 22, using equipment on loan to the university from Los Alamos National Laboratory. "It's clearly something that does not have any mass. The angular speed is too fast to be anything at orbital velocity," said Morris B. Pongratz, a scientist with Los Alamos National Laboratory who has examined the tape. "This guy is clearly moving." Morss and his colleagues maintain the ball's tremendous speed and apparent lack of mass eliminate many commonly proffered explanations for unknown objects sighted in the atmosphere. "People are seeing new forms, new shapes, all sorts of new phenomena," Morss said. "It's not traditional meteorology." Copyright 1996 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:14:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:10:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance > Date: 16 Dec 96 19:26:26 EST > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance > They wouldn't verify this because of the loss of their credibility, so we > have the inestimable 'Italian connection' give some fairly meaningless reports > on the film/copy/cutting room floor snippets. Testing the film has nothing to do with credibility of Kodak. Nor their military contracts. Kodak simply is not going to let Mr. Santilli tell them what to do. They were misled before and they are not going to be misled again. Kodak will date test the film if they get the proper snippets. They are going to be very careful with Mr. Santilli because of his zealousness in the past of what he called authentication. They do not want that to happen. No way are they going to authenticate anything from him until they see the real film which was transferred to video. > Lets push for a couple of independent labs to look at this, arbitaryily > chosen at random from a list. > Something else along this line, when I contacted Kodak their spokesman > said they could do the testing but that it would be very costly. There was no > mention of them doing it for free. If someone has a contact at Kodak that > says they will do it for free, they need to get that in writing and submit it > to Santilli. Perhaps you should have spoken with someone other than a spokesperson. Those guys were given a prepared statement to give for all then inquiries they were getting. As for the cost, I have no idea. > I doubt any independent lab would do it for free either but they may be > less expensive than Kodak. According to the person who would have been in charge of performing the chemical analysis, ONLY KODAK can verify the chemical content of their films. Sure a bunch of labs could do a burn and get a breakdown on the ratios but the chemical make-up of KODAK film is proprietary information. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: *** Roswell Corollary Alert *** From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:01:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 10:09:22 -0500 Subject: Re: *** Roswell Corollary Alert *** > Subject: *** Roswell Corollary Alert *** > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 18:08:48 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> [snip] > I have noted that a triangular 'piece of the crash' held by > the Roswell museum said to have been part of the 'crashed > flying saucer' was composed of several metals including > copper. Pat, but the piece that the Roswell Museum has was identified by the jeweler who made it. I can't vouch for what you say about copper, but the the museum has was not something that was causing green fireballs in 1947. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 New Sighting of Triangle Object in Ventura/Santa From: Mary Helen Corrado <mcorrado@jetlink.net> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:21:54 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:01:27 -0500 Subject: New Sighting of Triangle Object in Ventura/Santa Errol - I don't know what is up out here, but I took a phone interview tonight from a fellow who had a close up sighting of a large triangular shaped object. This occurred on Dec 6. We also got news of a similar sighting this weekend up in Santa Barbara. We are following up on these sightings. We also have another sighting report from December 3 to interview. I don't know much about that sighting, but it was in a different place and time from the sighting that I witnessed on that day. Check the updated web site at http://www.jetlink.net/~mcorrado I hope to have a drawing from the witness I interviewed by Wednesday. Mary Helen Corrado MUFON Ventura/SB Newbury Park, CA - Northwest of LA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: *** Roswell Corollary Alert *** From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 11:30:20 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:30:20 -0500 Subject: Re: *** Roswell Corollary Alert *** Rebecca Schatte said; >> I have noted that a triangular 'piece of the crash' held by >> the Roswell museum said to have been part of the 'crashed >> flying saucer' was composed of several metals including >> copper. > > >Pat, but the piece that the Roswell Museum has was identified by the jeweler >who made it. I can't vouch for what you say about copper, but the the museum >has was not something that was causing green fireballs in 1947. Sure! :) All those green balls are Mogul designs from Tiffanys! I am right about the copper. Check into it. I may be wrong about the Roswell 'artifact' but copper fits the picture. BTW - Last night I saw one of those green fireballs for myself. They are exactly as Linda M. Howell describes. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 The X-mas Files From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:39:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:33:55 -0500 Subject: The X-mas Files Subj: The Real X-Files Section: Mutual UFO Network To: ALL Tuesday, December 17, 1996 9:45:26AM From: John W. Ratcliff, 70253,3237 #406173 The following is from the Dec. 16th, 1996 issue of the New Yorker: The XMas-Files by Frank Cammuso and Hart Seely 57 ELM STREET BETHLEHEM, PA. 11:51 P.M., DECEMBER 24TH We're too late! It's already been here. Mulder, I hope you know what you're doing. Look, Scully, just like the other homes: Douglas fir, truncated, mounted, transformed into a shrine; halls decked with boughs of holly; stockings hung by the chimney, with care. You really think someone's been here? Someone, or something. Mulder, over here--it's a fruitcake. Don't touch it! Those things can be lethal. It's O.K. There's a note attached: "Gonna find out who's naughty and nice." It's judging them, Scully. It's making a list. Who? What are you talking about? Ancient mythology tells of an obese humanoid entity who could travel at great speed in a craft powered by antlered servants. Once each year, near the winter solstice, this creature is said to descend from the heavens to reward its followers and punish disbelievers with jagged chunks of antracite. But that's legend, Mulder--a story told by parents to frighten children. Surely you don't believe it? Something was here tonight, Scully. Check out the bite marks on this gingerbread man. Whatever tore through this plate of cookies was massive--and in a hurry. It left crumbs everywhere. And look, Mulder, this milk glass has been completely drained. It gorged itself, Scully. I fed without remorse. But why would they leave it milk and cookies? Appeasement. Tonight is the Eve, and nothing can stop its wilding. But if this thing does exist, how did it get in? The doors and windows were locked. There's no sign of forced entry. Unless I miss my guess, it came through the fireplace. Wait a minute, Mulder. If you're saying some huge creature landed on the roof and came down this chimney, you're crazy. The flue is barely six inchues wide. Nothing could get down there. But what if it could alter its shape, move in all directions at once? You mean, like a bowl full of jelly? Exactly. Scully, I've never told anyone this, but when I was a child my home was visited. I saw the creature. It had long white shanks of fur surrounding its ruddy, misshapen head. Its bloated torso was red and white. I'll never foget the horror. I turned away, and when I looked back it had somehow taken on the facial features of my father. Impossible. I know what I saw. And that night it read my mind. It brought me a Mr. Potato Head, Scully. It knew that I wanted a Mr. Potato Head! I'm sorry, Mulder, but you're asking me to disregard the laws of physics. You want me to believe in some supernatural being who soars across the skies and brings gifts to good little girls and boys. Listen to what you're saying. Do you understand the repercussions? If this gets out, they'll close the X-files. Scully, listen to me: It know when you're sleeping. It knows when you're awake. But we have no proof. Last year, on this exact date, SETI radio telescopes detected bogeys in the airspace over twenty-seven states. The White House ordered a Condition Red. But that was a meteor shower. Officially. Two days ago, eight prized Scandinavian reindeer vanished from the National Zoo, in Washington, D.C. Nobody--not even the zookeeper--was told about it. The government doesn't want people to know about Project Kringle. They fear that if this thing is proved to exist the public will stop spending half its annual income in a holiday shopping frenzy. Retail markets will collapse. Scully, they cannot let the world believe this creature lives. There's too much at stake. They'll do whatever it takes to insure another silent night. Mulder, I-- Sh-h-h. Do you hear what I hear? On the roof. It sounds like...a clatter. The truth is up there. Let's see what's the matter. IF YOU FORWARD THIS, PLEASE BE SURE TO CREDIT THE AUTHORS FRANK CAMMUSO AND HART SEELY.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 1996 Year of Spectacular Discoveries and From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:49:32 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:32:03 -0500 Subject: 1996 Year of Spectacular Discoveries and David E. Steitz Headquarters, Washington, DC December 17, 1996 (Phone: 202/358-1600) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk RELEASE: 96-260 1996 SEEN AS YEAR OF SPECTACULAR DISCOVERIES AND NEW CHALLENGES FOR NASA A rock, a record, a rover and a new rocket were among the top NASA stories for 1996. Background material, video and still images are available to news media to illustrate these stories, with supporting material also available via the Internet and the World Wide Web. LIFE ON MARS? TANTALIZING CLUES FROM AN ANCIENT ROCK In an announcement that caused all humankind to take pause, NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin and a team of scientists revealed in August that a meteorite from Mars strongly suggested that primitive life may have existed on that planet more than 3 billion years ago. In a press conference at NASA Headquarters, a research team showed the world pictures of the first organic molecules thought to be of Martian origin; several features characteristic of biological activity, and possible microscopic fossils of primitive, bacteria-like organisms inside the ancient meteorite. In vowing to pursue the investigation of this historic discovery, Goldin said "The evidence is exciting, even compelling, but not conclusive. It is a discovery that demands further scientific investigation. NASA is ready to assist the process of rigorous scientific investigation and lively scientific debate that will follow this discovery." Goldin invited governments from around the globe to participate in the continuing investigation of the meteorite. LUCID SETS U.S. RECORD FOR STAY IN SPACE Astronaut Dr. Shannon Lucid set a new record for an American living in space and broke the world's record for a woman living in space by spending 181 days aboard the Russian Mir Space Station. Lucid, who conducted microgravity and life sciences experiments aboard the Mir with two Russian cosmonauts, returned to Earth aboard Space Shuttle Atlantis in November. President Clinton presented Lucid with the Congressional Space Medal of Honor in an early December ceremony, citing Lucid "for her contributions to international cooperation in space ... Shannon Lucid is an explorer in the best tradition of those who dare to challenge the unknown." Lucid's stay on Mir was part of continuing U.S. - Russian space cooperation, which is setting the foundation for the International Space Station. TWO PROBES LAUNCHED TO STUDY THE RED PLANET In a continuing effort to learn more about Mars, the United States launched two new spacecraft to the Red Planet in 1996. The Mars Global Surveyor and the Mars Pathfinder missions were both successfully launched from NASA's Kennedy Space Center, FL. Mars Global Surveyor, due to rendezvous with Mars in September of 1997, will spend four months dipping into Mars' atmosphere using a technique called "aerobraking." Starting in 1998, the Surveyor will begin compiling a systematic database as it surveys the Martian landscape and photographs unique features, such as polar caps and Mars' network of sinuous, intertwining river channels. Mars Pathfinder, set to land on Mars July 4, 1997, is designed to test the feasibility of a new low-cost method of delivering a spacecraft, science payload and free-ranging rover to the surface of the Red Planet. Once deployed, the lander will transmit back to Earth science data collected during descent through Mars' atmosphere. The rover, named Sojourner, will then activate an onboard camera and send back images to Earth, signifying the start of its exploration. GALILEO UNRAVELS MYSTERIES OF JUPITER AND ITS MOONS Mars was not the only planet to reveal startling new secrets in 1996. NASA's Galileo spacecraft, in its flyby and probe deploy at Jupiter, revealed many previously unknown facts about our Solar System's largest planet. Galileo's Probe, which was successfully sent into Jupiter's violent atmosphere in December 1995, provided new discoveries for NASA scientists. New information on the extent of water, clouds, and the chemical composition of Jupiter's atmosphere was revealed. As Galileo sped by Jupiter's moons, new details of the satellites began to emerge. On Ganymede, Jupiter's largest moon, scientists were intrigued by three- dimensional pictures of giant, icy fissures and evidence of a magnetic field. Galileo also reported that "warm ice" or even liquid water may have existed, and perhaps still exists, beneath the cracked icy crust of the moon Europa. Galileo found that the volcanically-active moon Io had noticeably changed since it was last observed 17 years ago by the Voyager spacecraft. In November, Galileo flew by Jupiter's moon Callisto, investigating the strange, pockmarked fourth moon, so different from its other active siblings. HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE CONTINUES TO AMAZE ASTRONOMERS Living up to its role as one of the "Great Observatories," the Hubble Space Telescope showed images of galaxies colliding, the surface of Pluto, and the birth of stars during 1996. In April, Hubble sent back dramatic images of gigantic tadpole-shaped objects surrounding a dying star. The "cometary knots" are probably the result of a dying star's final outbursts, seen in the Helix nebula. The Space Telescope continues on track for measuring the expansion of the universe, sending back information that fine-tunes the Hubble Constant. Scientists are using the telescope to try and place the Hubble Constant to within a ten percent accuracy. Compiling a "cosmic movie" of the Crab Nebula, Hubble found the Nebula even more dynamic than previously understood. Hubble measured the diameters of a special class of pulsating star called Mira variables, which rhythmically change size. At 11 billion light-years away, they existed during the epoch when it is commonly believed galaxies started to form. Hubble concluded the gigantic, old stars are not round but rather egg-shaped. That discovery may preview the fate of our Sun five billion years from now. Hubble also surveyed the "homes" of quasars, showing that they live in a remarkable variety of galaxies, many of which are violently colliding. The complicated image Hubble sent back suggests there may be a variety of mechanisms for "turning on" quasars, the universe's most energetic objects. Hubble introduced us to images of what may be galaxies under construction in the early universe, being made out of a long sought ancient population of "galactic building blocks." Those images show a grouping of 18 gigantic star clusters that appear to be the same distance from Earth, and close enough to each other that they will eventually merge into a few galaxy-sized objects. In October, Hubble followed the spectacular dance of Jupiter's aurora, allowing astronomers to map Jupiter's immense magnetic field and better understand how it generates such phenomena. NEXT GENERATION LAUNCH VEHICLE CHOSEN FOR DEVELOPMENT In a quest for a faster, better, cheaper access to space in the 21st Century, Vice President Al Gore and Administrator Goldin announced that Lockheed Martin was selected to build the X-33 technology demonstration vehicle, a one-half scale prototype of the Reusable Launch Vehicle which will be used to demonstrate advanced technologies that will dramatically increase reliability and lower the costs of putting payloads into space. Lockheed Martin will design, build and conduct the first test flight of the X-33 test vehicle by March 1999, and conduct up to fifteen flights by December 1999. NASA has budgeted $941 million for the project through 1999, with Lockheed Martin contributing over $200 million. Called "VentureStar," the unpiloted vehicle will launch vertically like a rocket and land horizontally like an airplane. -end- NOTE TO EDITORS: More detailed information about this year's top NASA stories is available: STORY INTERNET WORLD WIDE WEB URL Life on Mars: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/pao/flash/ Shannon Lucid: http://shuttle mir.nasa.gov/science/brochure/toc.html New Mars Probes: http://mpfwww.jpl.nasa.gov and http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs Galileo: http://ccf.arc.nasa.gov/galileo_probe/ Hubble: http://www.stsci.edu/pubinfo/Latest.html X-33: http://rlv.msfc.nasa.gov/x33/index.html PHOTOGRAPHS/IMAGES Life on Mars: 96-H-514, Electron scanning microscope image of Mars meteorite Shannon Lucid: 96-HC-666, Imax image of Lucid, 96-HC-711, Lucid with Russian Space Suit; 96-HC-659, Imax image of Lucid reading a book in space New Mars Probes: 96-HC-725, Mars Global Surveyor; 96-HC-686, Mars Pathfinder Galileo: 96-HC-682, Io; 96-HC-728, Europa; 96-H-432, Ganymede Hubble: 96-HC-25, Egg Nebula; 96-HC-216, Cometary Knots; 96-HC-729, Quasars X-33: 96-HC-735, X-33 For the latest news and information about NASA, please visit TODAY@NASA at URL: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/NewsRoom/today.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Wormwood? From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:28:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:31:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? >From: legion@werple.net.au >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Wormwood? >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:29:36 +1100 (EST) [snip] >Sorry, Graham. Andrew's "scoop" was based on a load of old tosh from the >Canadian version of the magazine that gives tabloids a bad name, the >"Weekly World News". (Anybody else remember their "Aliens Ate My >Laundry" story?) Dear John, Many thanks indeed for appraising me on the original source of the so-called "Floating City in Space" story. I immediately contacted Andrew Pike about this and he pointed out that his information came not from the Weekly World News, but from discussions he had entered into with fellow astronomers, including two professional astronomers, all of whom appeared to be treating this topic with a surprising degree of seriousness. >From whence cometh the story that concerned them so? A bit of detective work brought the answer: The UK magazine "Amatuer Astronomy & Earth Sciences" quoted a certain Marcia Masson - she of the "Weekly World News" article. What prompted "Amatuer Astronomy & Earth Sciences" to cite Marcia Masson's claims is another matter entirely. I'm informed that this American lady is in the process of writing a book on this and similar topics. It may interest you to know that I have received numerous calls from devout Roman Catholic's (including two clergy members) who speak of references to the arrival of a comet contained in prophecies and the like. Not being a member of the Catholic Church, I was wondering if anyone else has come across this and would like to comment? Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 17 Astronomers Detect Never Before Seen Gamma-Ray From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:29:41 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:33:00 -0500 Subject: Astronomers Detect Never Before Seen Gamma-Ray Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC December 17, 1996 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Jerry Berg Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, AL (Phone: 205/544-0034) RELEASE: 96-261 ASTRONOMERS DETECT NEVER BEFORE SEEN GAMMA-RAY MULTI-BURSTS The much-debated mystery of the source and origins of high-energy bursts of gamma rays observed in all directions in distant space has been given a puzzling new twist with the detection by NASA astronomers of the first sequence of repeated bursts in one region. Four separate gamma-ray bursts were detected in two groups of two in rapid succession on October 27 and October 29, respectively. Astronomers based at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, AL, measured the unique sequence using the Burst and Transient Source Experiment (BATSE) instrument aboard NASA's Earth-orbiting Compton Gamma Ray Observatory, launched from the Space Shuttle Atlantis in April 1991. The repeated bursts are unlike any of the other 1,700 gamma-ray bursts observed by BATSE. Marshall Space Sciences Laboratory astrophysicist Dr. Valerie Connaughton will present more details on the findings in a paper at the Texas Symposium on Relativistic Astrophysics in Chicago on Wednesday, December 18, at 4:15 p.m. CST at the Palmer House Hilton. The BATSE finding is expected to prompt vigorous debate on subjects such as the distance to the sources of gamma-ray bursts and their causes -- subjects still debated by scientists despite nearly 25 years of study. BATSE usually detects only about one gamma-ray burst per day, lasting from 10-30 seconds, and the locations of these events on the sky appear to be randomly distributed. "That's what makes these recent events so unusual," said Dr. Charles Meegan, BATSE experiment co-investigator. "They came right after one another, about two days apart, and all from the same part of the sky. Moreover, the last one was much longer than usual, lasting 23 minutes." The BATSE astronomers cannot yet say for sure whether these events were produced by just one object in space, or several, but "it would be unlikely that this actually happened by chance" in four unrelated places, said Connaughton. "Some astronomers argue for an explanation that the origin of these bursts is fairly local, just outside our own galaxy," said Dr. Gerald Fishman, BATSE principal investigator, who agrees that the recent events are likely related. "But most believe that bursts come from remote parts of the universe, at cosmological distances of a billion light years or more." Another debated topic is how bursts are created. One theory suggests that bursts do not repeat from the same source because they involve a tremendous explosion that destroys the source in the process. Another possibility is that bursts occur when neutron stars merge, which would not be consistent with repeating bursts. "This discovery of multiple bursts adds fuel to the debate as to the source of the bursts," said Fishman. The discovery was confirmed by three other gamma-ray burst detectors. Scientists from NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, MD, the University of California at Berkeley and the Ioffe Institute in Russia participated in the discovery. The Texas Symposium on Relativistic Astrophysics is one of the most significant scientific forums for high energy astrophysics, and is being attended by leading astronomers from around the world, including Sir Martin Rees from Cambridge University. Dr. Rees is scheduled to present an invited talk on gamma-ray bursts at the meeting today. Press contacts during the symposium are Don Sena of the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory and Diana Steele of the University of Chicago, who can be reached at 312/917-1781, fax 312/917-1786. To arrange an interview with a NASA BATSE researcher at the symposium, Kelly McFalls of the Marshall Office of Public Affairs can be reached at that number. The Burst and Transient Source Experiment is one of several instruments on NASA's Compton Gamma Ray Observatory. Other BATSE discoveries include a bursting pulsar, gamma rays from thunderstorms and eight new pulsars, and the observation of more than 1,700 gamma-ray bursts. Further information on the mission and its accomplishments is available on the Internet home page of Marshall's Space Sciences Laboratory on the World Wide Web at URL: http://www.ssl.msfc.nasa.gov -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Special Operations Manual 1-01 - Part 1 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 14:29:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:54:49 -0500 Subject: Special Operations Manual 1-01 - Part 1 Special Operations Manual 1-01, Posting #1 During a visit to Washington, D. C. I stopped off at Richard Hall's home and during my stay there he showed me a copy SOM 1-01. I noticed a number items in the publication atypical and unusual in military writings. The next day I discussed this manual with Don Berliner. Since it appeared to have the US Army seal on the cover, I urged him to send it to the Army for security determination which I thought might prove very interesting; especially any comments they might make. He said he had given it to the GAO Roswell investigators and felt that was the best place to get further information on it. Don Berliner can certainly speak for himself. However, my impression was that his attitude towards the authenticity of the manual was ambivalent. He had after all presented a talk at a MUFON symposium about how a recovery team would retrieve crashed saucers. Berliner mentioned that he had consulted with several experts and came away with some conflicting opinions. (I didn't extensive notes at the time so I am relying on memory for the following.) He asked someone from the government printing office if they produced a manual like this and was told that it appeared a sloppy job, but it well might have come from them. He consulted some military officers about the manual, and they disagreed about whether it could be authentic. He had also asked archivists at Carlisle Barracks about the manual, and they had pointed out that the publications list in the manual was correct for the date of the manual. However, just shortly after the manual date the publications cited had changed, and the list would have contained incorrect references just a month or so later. Berliner and I heatedly disagreed about some of the problems in the manual. He told me that the manual had come in the mail from an unknown source. He did not feel that necessarily reflected on the authenticity. He pointed out that the news media in Washington, DC live on leaks. We also disagreed on the effect of the espionage laws in this case. He felt, as an aviation writer, that he was a member of the press and had no responsibility to try to help the authorities identify the source of the document--which since purported to be a security document of the US, a security violation had occurred. The Special Operations Manual tells retrieval teams how to conduct such operations. Manuals of this type would be used by the commander or team leader (or whatever the designation) to develop Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs), Operational Plans (OPlans) which would contained detailed instructions and tasks on retrieval, and Operation Orders (OPORD), which would apply the plan to a specific operation. Oplans can easily become OPORDs. OPORD are used in specific situations: if the thing came down in a swamp, this would require special techniques and equipment and be addressed in the OPORD. Of course, once the location is known, the specifics of the area, (ie local population, terrain, communication, etc., etc.) would be addressed in the OPORD. To make sure that all necessary actions are accomplished correctly, manuals are written to establish guidance and standards. It is too late when the event has taken place to research what should be done. The guidance on this is set out long in advance by people who careful consider all aspects of the problem. This guidance is used to craft Oplans and OPORDs for specific situations and develop training. When unforeseen developments happen, there is feed back and the manuals are revised as necessary. Oplans and OPORDs address Administrative and Personnel, Security and Intelligence, Operations, Logistics, Communications and Electronics and other areas of concern as necessary. (For example all modern Oplans and ORORDs address Safety as a separate area--not so, of course, in 1954.) So any reviewer of this document should keep in mine that it should establish minimal standards for the tasks and goals planned. Generally all publications in the military and other agencies solicit recommendations for improvements and corrections of errors. Drafts of new publications are generally sent to activities having some interest or expertise on the subject for coordination. Generally such coordinations improves the final product. I worked in offices that received such publications and from time to time and was tasked to critique these publications. The result was a long list of discrepancies, errors, comments, and recommendations which was submitted to the proponent agency. I proposed to do such a review (a little less formal than when it was an official duty) on SOM 1-01. Some of the discrepancies, etc. are impossible to address since the manual is fragmentary. However, they are included for future reference. Items considered major discrepancies are indicated with an asterisk *. A short analysis will be included at the end of the list. (Page numbers are those in Berliner's copy of the document.) Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Ellsberg on 'Secrets' From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:05:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:52:27 -0500 Subject: Ellsberg on 'Secrets' Ed Stewart did us all a service by recommending the Paul McGinnis website on military secrecy. I was browsing there, and found -- among other interesting and impressive documents -- testimony Daniel Ellsberg gave before Congress in 1973. Ellsberg, of course, was the foreign policy official who leaked the Pentagon Papers during the Vietnam war. Two years later, there were congressional hearings on military secrecy, and he was asked to tell what he knew. Here are some excerpts. I imagine many of us will find them fascinating, since they provide first-hand testimony about how baroque and compartmentalized US government secrets really are. They don't prove anything about UFOs, of course -- I think I should stress that, before anyone (including me) jumps to any conclusions. Interestingly, though, I had to edit the text a little. I had to remove annotations from someone who <did> draw pro-MJ-12 conclusions from Ellsberg's testimony, and inserted them at the relevant points. It's a shame, really...Ellsberg's words are strong enough not to need interpretation by anybody. Greg Sandow Excerpts follow: Perhaps I could cut through it best by just relating to you some advice I gave to a man who entered Government 4 years ago, and I might as well name him -- Henry Kissinger -- someone I had known academically or professionally for 10 years. It seemed to me it was appropriate to pass on some thoughts to him in advance and perhaps inoculate him against the transformation that I feared was going to come over this person. It was appropriate to do it to this person because I felt he was going to be initiated into the most esoteric and sinister parts of this system. He was not only going to have a top secret but perhaps a score or two score, for all I know, of the clearances higher than top secret of which I had held an even dozen when I worked as special assistant to the Assistant Secretary of Defense. ...in December of 1968 in the Hotel Pierre...I said to him, 'You are about to get 10,15, or 20 clearances of a sort that you never knew existed. Their very names are classified.' Code words that identify them on pieces of paper are classified. They are referred to by the first letters of their codewords; they are never to be photographed. That applies only to the lowest of these clearances to which I refer. Secretary McNamara had at least a few more. I wouldn't suggest how many each person had in the Defense Dept. Persons in the White House could have many more in the NSA and CIA and many places I didn't deal with. ********** If you had worked all your life with top secret material in the Pentagon for Assistant Secretaries, unless you were one of the elect, you would not be aware that there are entire rooms in the Pentagon with safe doors outside, with a guardian, with a computer list up to date hourly and daily as to who is admitted in that room, and unless you know the codeword and are on that list, you cannot enter that room or know of its existence. It will have a very nondescript door in the hall that will not suggest what is inside. You can go in that room and discover yourself in something like the reading room of the New York Public Library, not a closet, not a safe, but a room with charts, with library shelves of material, no word of which you were previously aware existed. You did not know how it was gotten. You did not know the President had this kind of information at all. Of course, the effect of that is very euphoric at first. You go around and take things off the shelves and begin reading and imagine you are about to learn all the answers, that Godlike knowledge is now available to you. Now, you can be introduced into one of those rooms and still have no idea that there exist still other rooms with other sources of information, other access lists just as large and just as secret. I would say it is not until you have four or five such clearances, that the next level is revealed to you. Then you become aware that there is no limit to this; that these clearances can be generated very quickly in a day or two; and such types of information can be segregated -- I am not saying only from the public or Congress, but even from other people who have two or three other clearances -- very effectively. Once you have a dozen, from then on, you live in the knowledge there must be others you don't have. Could there be clearances the President doesn't know about? Of course, certainly, without any doubt....Could it, however, be withheld from him? The answer is 'Yes,' and even by close associates. Top Secret, you have heard in testimony, top secret is accessible to 400,000 to 500,000 people....Comint clearance is far more secret, far more sensitive. Members of Congress or their staffs...can't be trusted, but ... 120,000 sergeants, warrant officers, generals and Cabinet secretaries [can]. The next clearance above that cuts way down to about 14,000 to 20,000. What I am saying is that the world of secrets is lived in by a very large number of people, though a very small part of our our electorate and only one branch of our Government. Henry Kissinger lives in a much smaller world, a world that for some pieces of information might be inhabited only by a couple of people. ...one White House staffer told me...'I wonder if Henry realizes there were certain things known only to him, the President, and the Army General Staff....' But I am saying, as many as 100,000 or 400,000, nevertheless keep secrets very well because of this apparatus of conspiracy, special channels, special couriers for each clearance. The couriers for one clearance do not know the existence of the other ones. Special briefings, special access lists, special libraries, each separate, the apparatus of an espionage ring; a Government that consists of cells but with the President at the top. Certainly when I say there are clearances that the President may not know of, I say that only to make a point. The more important point is, the President does know virtually all of this.... ********* The entire document (with the pro-MJ-12 annotations!) can be found at ftp://members.aol.com/paulmcg/files/ellsberg-on-secrecy. Or you can follow the link from the McGinnis site, at http://www.frogi.org/secrecy.html
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Special Operations Manual 1-01 - Part 2 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 16:15:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:56:59 -0500 Subject: Special Operations Manual 1-01 - Part 2 Special Operation Manual No. 1-01 Posting #2. List of comments. COVER *1. The word "RESTRICTED" is placed on the cover. Restricted was a security classification that was being phased in 1954. Restricted Data (RD) and Formerly Restricted Data (FRD) are used to refer to nuclear weapons data. Use of the word RESTRICTED, therefore, causes confusion especially since the cover is the only place it is used. Security regulations at the 1954 do not have a special use for the word other than those cited above. Nowhere in the text of the manual is this use addressed. 2. The classification of "SOM 1-01" on the cover is not indicated. (See below 6) *3. The designation TO 12D1-3-11-1 is not explained anywhere in the manual. The Army and the Air Force issued many joint manuals. The Army's designation would be TM (Technical Manual) and a series of number(and sometime letters.) The Air Force designation TO (Technical Order) was also used in smaller lettering/numbering as in this case. A research item would be to look up the TO-12D1-3-11-1 in the index of Air Force Technical Orders. (A prediction is that it will refer to an unclassified packaging manual.) 4. What is the security classification of "TO-12D1-3-11-1"? (See below 6) 5. What is the security classification of the manual title? (See below 6) 6. There is no short title. The security classification of numerical and title determine the classification of documents that refer to these titles and designations. To allow manuals to be cited in lower classified security documents a "short title" either unclassified or a lower classification is created. While this procedure was not effective in 1954, a modification should have been made later and added to the cover. 7. "Eyes Only" is not a security classification. It is sometimes used as a communication procedure and sometimes as custom in the military. It sounds very "James Bond." However, when used in communication it is generally directed to one named individual. I would very much like to see a security manual that covers "Eyes Only." 8. There should be on the cover somewhere "copy #---- of----copies." This was a printed manual. Each copy should be serial numbered. (See below 9) *9. There is no Top Secret Control Number. The US Army Europe Supplement to Army Regulation 380-5 has a good designation, not used universally throughout the Army, Continuous Controlled Accountability (CCA), but helpful in understanding the security procedures for Top Secret and other specially classified documents. Top Secret, Communication Security items such as codes and key material (COMSEC), NATO Secret are CCA documents. They must be individual accounted for (that means control and serial numbers), an individual is always signed for them, and they must be under control of that individual or in an authorized security container. In addition each person that looks at a Top Secret document is required to sign a form that he has read it. The argument has been made on this list that Top Secret documents have been found in the archives that do not have TS control number. This is argument by exception and is meaningless. Such documents appear to be security violations. A security violation does not negate the regulation--it is a violation of the regulation. Just as someone who commits murder but is never caught does not negate the law against murder. Archived documents also have to a certain extent been demilitarized or sanitized so the argument does not necessarily apply. SM 1-01 does not appear to be an archived document, but an active document. As such, there were almost 40 years to correct this major deficiency, but no one bothered. This is extraordinary considering the almost constant admonishment against security lapses in the manual itself. 10. The manual, issued by the MAJESTIC--12 GROUP, has what appears to be an US Army seal. Army manual from this period carried such seals. 11. The security warning appears to be incomplete. Most--although I can't say all--usually enumerate the penalties for security violations. 12. There is not page count. Most, not all manuals of this time would have a page count so the accountable individual could easily verify that the manual was complete.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: The X-mas Files From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:22:01 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:01:18 -0500 Subject: Re: The X-mas Files > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:39:12 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) > Subject: The XMas Files Thank you, Rebecca. Another entry. This one originated in the skunk-works mailing list last year. Enjoy, Ed Stewart ---------- Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the skys Air defenses were up, with electronic eyes. Combat pilots were nestled in ready-room beds As enemy silhouettes danced in their heads. Every jet on the apron, each SAM in its tube Was triply-redundant linked to the Blue Cube, And ElInt and AWACS gave coverage so dense That nothing that flew could slip through our defense. When out of the klaxon arose such a clatter I turned to the screen to see what was the matter; I dialed up the gain and then quick as a flash Fine-adjusted the filters to damp out the hash. And there found the source of the warning we'd heeded: An incoming blip, by eight escorts preceded. "Alert status red!" went the word down the wire, As we gave every system the codes that meant "FIRE"! On Aegis! Up Patriot, Phalanx and Hawk! And scramble our fighters -- let's send the whole flock! Launch decoys and missiles! Use chaff by the yard! Get the kitchen sink up! Call the National Guard! They turned toward the target, moved toward it, converged. Then the tracks on the radar all finally merged, And the sky was lit up with a demonic light As the foe met his fate in the high arctic night. So we sent out some recon to look for debris, Yet all that they found, both on land and on sea Were some toys, a red hat, a charred left leather boot, Broken sleighbells, white hair, and a deer's parachute. Now it isn't quite Christmas, with Saint Nick shot down. There are unhappy kids in each village and town. For the Spirit of Christmas can't hope to evade All the web of defenses we've carefully made. For look how the gadgets we use to protect us In other ways alter, transform and affect us. They keep us from things that make life more worth living Like love for each other, and thoughts of just giving. But a crash program's on: Working hard, night and day, All the elves are constructing a radar-proof sleigh. So let's wait for next Christmas, in cheer and in health, For the future has hope: Santa's coming by stealth! -- Jay Freeman -------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:22:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:06:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Regarding... >Date: 15 Dec 96 01:20:03 EST >From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance Theresa Carlson wrote: <<Until the origins can be proven, or the US Government acknowledges ownership, our hypothetical original film would simply be film of unknown provenance, which has been dated to 19whatever.>> >Well, not exactly. If the footage is real government footage, this cameraman is an eyewitness.< Theresa, What cameraman? There is no "cameraman", that was the point. <g> Well, yes, there obviously is a cameraman of some description, but without any evidence that he hasn't lived around the corner from Ray Santilli all his life, he's not a corroborative witness. If there was indeed an authentic cameraman as claimed and he did come forward, then a lot of things would probably change, but until then, even if some meaningful film was dated it would still only be film of unknown origin from that date. Strictly, if the "debris" footage was authenticated as archive film, then as that shows someone in military uniform, it would imply a link with the US military. Being pragmatic, I dare say that if it was proven beyond dispute that the "autopsy" footage did amazingly originate from 1947 film, that would actually be sufficient for most people! >If he is an actor and was hired to play the part, he is still a witness. A witness to a hoax". Yes, himself and several others. >A rather significant first hand witness, either way. Absolutely! James. Internet; 100626.2242@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:22:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:07:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Regarding... >Date: 16 Dec 96 19:26:26 EST >From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance Theresa Carlson wrote to James Diss: >Something else along this line, when I contacted Kodak their spokesman said they could do the testing but that it would be very costly. There was no mention of them doing it for free. If someone has a contact at Kodak that says they will do it for free, they need to get that in writing and submit it to Santilli.< Theresa, It was Bob Shell who had arranged with Kodak that they would test the film for free. On 5 June, this year, Bob reiterated that, "they have agreed to test film for me at no charge provided that it meets their criteria". That criteria had previously been set out by Bob: "Kodak ...want to see a strip at least 50 frames in length so they can do some sprocket spacing measurements. "Spacing of sprocket holes was changed around 1960 when new equipment was installed, and Kodak can easily determine whether the film was made before or after this equipment change if given a long enough strip. Kodak also needs to see a strip which is intact from edge to edge, since this is an important measurement to determine film shrinkage. Film shrinks as it ages. Kodak also wants to perform chemical tests on a piece of film which can be firmly established to be from the same film on which the alien appears. [...] Kodak wants Ray or an agent of his to come to Rochester and bring one entire roll of the film. They want to examine the roll, make a number of physical measurements, and then, with the agent's approval, punch a small hole from one frame for testing. This does not have to come from a frame with the alien in it so long as it comes from an unbroken strip on which the alien appears. The physical measurements coupled with chemical tests will provide an absolute dating for the film. Ray Santilli is aware of all of this, and has been for some time". That was over a year ago. The comments James Diss was alluding to are I believe the following, from the CompuServe MUFON forum conference on 24 March, 1996: "Yes there are further plans with regard to the verification of the film and this will hopefully be done at the time of the cameramans interview However we will NOT be going to KODAK. [...] With all due respect to KODAK I simply do not trust an American corporation with lucrative defence contracts". I wonder when Ray told Bob Shell that there was no intention to submit any film to Kodak. Presumably this must have been after Bob had made all of the arrangements and had spent almost a year being patiently optimistic this would take place. This is of course assuming Bob does know. Maybe he doesn't; I'll ask if he would like to make a statement on this and a couple of other points. >I doubt any independent lab would do it for free either but they may be less expensive than Kodak.< >From what Bob has previously said, only Kodak have the means to match the chemistry of the sample against their records. That's one of the points I'll raise with him. James. Internet; 100626.2242@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Comet Comments - 12/08/96 From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:41:38 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:03:37 -0500 Subject: Comet Comments - 12/08/96 From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary Subject: Comet Comments - 12/08/96 Date: 17 Dec 1996 22:09 UT Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory COMET COMMENTS Don Machholz December 8, 1996 Comet Hale-Bopp passes north of the sun and into the morning sky on Dec. 31. Observers with a low eastern horizon should be able to pick it up again by the third week of January. In the past few weeks stories of "mysterious" objects in the vicinity of the comet have circulated. The most popular-a Saturn-like Object (SLO) imaged on Nov. 14 by an amateur astronomer- turned out to be nothing other than an 8.5 magnitude star. Other similar objects that I've seen on Internet images appear to be out-of-focus images of bright stars. In all respects Comet Hale-Bopp is behaving as an average comet. It is bigger than perhaps any comet we have seen, but its variable brightness, tails and jets are normal. If anything mysterious truly appears, you will find it reported in the mainstream press, and in most cases be able to go outside and see it yourself through your telescope. Meanwhile, Comet Tabur dims in our morning sky. Its magnitude has been unpredictable lately. Periodic Comet Wirtanen is returning. The Hubble Space telescope imaged it in August 1996 and "measured" the nucleus' diameter to be 1.16 km. Finally, Periodic Comet Wild 2 should be visible for several months. EPHEMERIDES C/1995 O1 (Hale-Bopp) Date(00UT) R.A. (2000) Dec El Sky Mag 12-08 18h11.6m +00o18' 29o E 3.9 12-13 18h17.3m +01o03' 28o E 3.7 12-18 18h23.4m +01o53' 27o E 3.5 12-23 18h29.9m +02o49' 27o E 3.3 12-28 18h36.7m +03o51' 27o E 3.1 01-02 18h44.0m +05o01' 28o M 2.9 01-07 18h51.7m +06o18' 29o M 2.7 01-12 19h00.0m +07o45' 31o M 2.5 01-17 19h08.9m +09o22' 32o M 2.2 01-22 19h18.5m +11o11' 34o M 1.9 01-27 19h29.0m +13o13' 36o M 1.7 02-01 19h40.5m +15o29' 38o M 1.4 02-06 19h53.4m +18o01' 40o M 1.1 02-11 20h07.8m +20o50' 41o M 0.7 C/1996 Q1 (Tabur) Date(00UT) R.A. (2000) Dec El Sky Mag 12-08 15h59.9m +19o46' 45o M 10.6 12-13 16h03.5m +18o08' 46o M 10.9 12-18 16h06.7m +16o39' 47o M 11.2 12-23 16h09.5m +15o19' 48o M 11.5 12-28 16h11.8m +14o07' 50o M 11.8 01-02 16h13.8m +13o02' 53o M 12.0 01-07 16h15.4m +12o05' 56o M 12.2 01-12 16h16.4m +11o13' 59o M 12.4 01-17 16h16.9m +10o27' 62o M 12.6 01-22 16h16.9m +09o47' 66o M 12.8 01-27 16h16.2m +09o11' 70o M 13.0 02-01 16h14.7m +08o39' 75o M 13.1 02-06 16h12.5m +08o11' 80o M 13.3 02-11 16h09.5m +07o46' 85o M 13.4 46P/Wirtanen Date(00UT) R.A. (2000) Dec El Sky Mag 12-08 21h53.2m -24o24' 66o E 13.3 12-13 22h02.7m -23o13' 64o E 13.1 12-18 22h12.6m -21o58' 61o E 13.0 12-23 22h23.1m -20o37' 59o E 12.8 12-28 22h34.1m -19o11' 57o E 12.6 01-02 22h45.5m -17o40' 55o E 12.4 01-07 22h57.4m -16o02' 53o E 12.2 01-12 23h09.8m -14o19' 52o E 12.0 01-17 23h22.6m -12o30' 50o E 11.8 01-22 23h35.9m -10o34' 49o E 11.6 01-27 23h49.7m -08o33' 48o E 11.4 02-01 00h03.9m -06o26' 47o E 11.2 02-06 00h18.7m -04o13' 46o E 11.1 02-11 00h34.0m -01o54' 45o E 10.9 81P/Wild 2 Date(00UT) R.A. (2000) Dec El Sky Mag 12-08 08h21.0m +16o38' 133o M 12.5 12-13 08h22.3m +16o36' 137o M 12.3 12-18 08h22.9m +16o36' 142o M 12.1 12-23 08h22.7m +16o41' 147o M 11.9 12-28 08h21.7m +16o49' 153o M 11.7 01-02 08h19.9m +17o02' 158o M 11.6 01-07 08h17.4m +17o18' 164o M 11.4 01-12 08h14.3m +17o38' 170o M 11.2 01-17 08h10.6m +18o01' 176o M 11.0 01-22 08h06.5m +18o27' 177o E 10.9 01-27 08h02.3m +18o54' 172o E 10.8 02-01 07h58.2m +19o22' 166o E 10.6 02-06 07h54.3m +19o49' 159o E 10.5 02-11 07h51.1m +20o16' 154o E 10.4 ELEMENTS Object Hale-Bopp Tabur Peri. Date 1997 04 01.13453 1996 11 03.52688 Peri. Dist (AU) 0.9141030 AU 0.8398272 AU Arg/Peri (2000): 130.59083 deg. 057.40724 deg. Asc. Node (2000): 282.47069 deg. 031.40177 deg. Incl (2000) 089.42936 deg. 073.35813 deg. Eccen: 0.9950969 0.9989006 Orbital Period: ~4700 years Long period Ref: MPC 28052 MPC 28052 Epoch: 1997 03 13 1996 11 13 Absol. Mag/"n": -2.0/4.0 9.5/4.0 Object P/Wirtanen P/Wild 2 Peri. Date 1997 03 14.14299 1997 05 06.62789 Peri. Dist (AU) 1.0637469 AU 1.5826156 AU Arg/Peri (2000): 356.34322 deg. 041.77000 deg. Asc. Node (2000): 082.20387 deg. 136.15458 deg. Incl (2000) 011.72255 deg. 003.24276 deg. Eccen: 0.6567490 0.5402220 Orbital Period: 5.46 years 6.39 years Ref: MPC 27080 MPC 28272 Epoch: 1997 03 13 1997 04 22 Absol. Mag/"n": 9.0/6.0 7.0/6.0 DonM353259@aol.com. Don Machholz (916) 346-8963 -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Special Operations Manual 1-01 - Part 3 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 18:26:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:59:03 -0500 Subject: Special Operations Manual 1-01 - Part 3 Special Operation Manual SOM 1-01 Posting #3 List of comments (Continued) 13. There is no authentication page. Now if this is an Army manual, as indicated by the seal, there should be a page which states the manual is official by the Chief of Staff or the Secretary of the Army and countersigned or sealed by the Adjutant General's office. 14. There is no page to register changes to the publications. 15. On the content page: The previous statements on the classification of the manual designations, title and short title apply. 16. It is unusual to have the Chapter 2 as the Introduction. 17. The text, paragraphs and titles are not portion marked. This was not effective in 1954 but should have been changed later to comply with current regulations that require is paragraph--subparagraph to be classified individually. 18. Majestic-12, Majectic 12 Group, Majic 12, MJ-12 are not defined. Sometimes they are used interchangeable. 19. There is no glossary to define these term listed in the Table of Content. 20. Paragraph (Para) 2, Chapter 1. "MJ-12 takes the subject of the UFOBs..." Procedures require that when an acronym is first used it is defined. (Comment 19 applies) 21. Para 2a, chapter 1. "The general aspects of MJ-12 to clear up any misconception that anyone may have." This is a howler. Manual are published to prescribe actions and set standards not "clear up misconceptions.." 22. Para 3, Chapter 1. "Eyes Only" previous comments apply. The classification of two points above Top Secret is not defined here. A reference is not given for the definition, and finally there is no official publication that makes such a designation. 23. Para 4d, Chapter 1. "...secret locations..." This could be confusing. The proper terminology would be at... classified locations... 24. Para 6b, Chapter 2. Appendix I contain a list of reference that is completely inadequate to support this manual. (See below) 25. Para 6c, Chapter 2. Appendix II is said to contain a list of Majectic--12 personnel. (Not in the manual available to Berliner.) Note that nowhere is a clear chain of command and support relationships discussed for the MJ-12 teams 26. Para 7, Chapter 2. Forms and Records. This Appendix (Ia) is not available in the Berliner material. 27. Par 12c, Chapter 3. "down satellites" is listed as one of the cover stories. Since the mission stated in paragraph 12, is a press blackout down satellite in 1954 will not work. It will only reinforce the press's effort to get information. Arguments that there were mystery satellites, searches for natural satellites, etc. completely miss the point. A story from the military that they were recovering a downed satellite in 1954 would cause a sensation. There would be no possibility of a press blackout. 28. Para 13a, Chapter 3. The solution to security concerns is to form a perimeter. Maintaining a perimeter requires large number of personnel. Are all these personnel to be cleared? Solution to this problem of course well known to military personnel. Set up an exclusion area within the perimeter. Keep all the unclear military personnel out of the exclusion area. You can then keep the number of cleared personnel to a minimum. Exclusion areas are used for communication facilities, tactical operation centers, command posts, nuclear weapons areas, and actually ordinary crash sites. Seems unlikely that MJ-12 people couldn't think of this. 29. Para 13a, Chapter 3. Just what type of electronic surveillance existed in 1954. Ground radar. Then, maybe the manual should be included references in Appendix 1. (See item 24.) However, I don't think there was really much in the way of electronic surveillance that was effective in 1954. 30. Para 13a, Chapter 3. Personnel are going to be issued live ammunition for perimeter duty. There is no discussion here of the use of deadly force. No publications are cited. There are not regulations on the use of the deadly force in Appendix I. There are no references to qualifications with weapons. Neither are there an publications cited in appendix I. This borders on gross negligence! 31. Para 13d, Chapter 3. Situation Evaluation. What information does MJ-12 want and in what format? Notice that is not discussed. Nor is there a reference cited in Appendix I. 32. Para 13, Chapter 3. Under "Secure the Area" no provisions are made to prevent observation from the air. No provisions are made to prevent observations from higher ground. Tentage and camouflage would nets seem to be the answer. No guidance and no publications cited. 33. Para 14a, Chapter 3. How is the site to be documented? Is aerial photography to be used? Is a grid system to be established on the site? Is the area to be surveyed in? No guidance, no publications which might help are cited. 34. Para 14a, Chapter 3. The area will be checked for radiation. What type? What type of monitoring equipment should be used? Should radiation exposure records be kept on personnel? Should dosimeters (sp?) be issued? Decontamination procedures and monitoring of exposed personnel are not discussed. No guidance and no publicatons are cited. 35. para 14a, Chapter 3. Check for toxic agents. How? With what? What are recommended procedure, protective clothing, decontamination procedures? No guidance and no publications are cited. 36. Para 14a, Chapter 3. Documentation. It does not seem that the person who wrote is familar with Technical Intelligence procedures. (Maybe we fell asleep in that class?) No forms, procedures, guidance, or publications are cited. 37. Para 13a, Chapter 3. No guidance is given on special containers, material handle equipment, etc. No publications are cited. 38. Para 14b, Chapter 3. No much is said about "Red Team." What support is required from the site commander, etc.? 39. Para 14c, Chapter 3. Contamination is mentions, but no protective gear or procedures are recommended. 40. Para 15, Chapter 3. Cleansing the Area. Extraterrestrial technology, in light of modern technology, would be thought to included some very small items. The method for cleaning the area is apparently visual inspection. Should the soil be checked? Too what depth? Should the top soil be striped and screened? There is no guidance. Here is definately a place where minimum standard can and should be established. It is left to the discretion of the officer in charge. The site commander should have the area checked and certify in writing that nothing was left there. 41. Para 16, Chapter 3. Special or Unusual Circumstances only anticipates a crash in a populated area. There is a publications cited here. Once again the "Eyes Only" comment applies. However, other special situations like recovery from lakes, swamps, mountain tops are not addressed. 42. Para 17, Chapter 3. This is not a multipart serial numbered form. Even bills of lading were that way in 1954. 43. Para 18a, Chapter 3. Note once again the idea of tagging each item as standard procedures in technical intelligence is ignored. 44. Para 18, Chapter 3. A copy of the inventory is not placed inside the inner box. 45. Para 18, Chapter 3. Packing of unusal, toxic, liquid or other items is not discussed. 46. As there are several page missing only packing is the inner box is discribed. In the removal process procedures are from other wooden contains are discribed in detail. 47. Chapter 4 talks about Extraterrestial Biological Entities (EBE). If alive, they are to be handle by the OPNAC--BBS team which is never explained. Nor is the type of support expected from the cite commander discussed. 48. Contact with EBE. Generally no protective gear is recommend although it thought that they there is a possibility of contamination. 49 Although the front of the manual apparently has an Army seal, chapter 6 talks about squadrons which expect for the calvary exist in the Air Force. 50. The Appendix on publications is completely inadequate. See above.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:16:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:12:03 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:53:23 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' > References: <2.2.32.19961215182203.006cb1e4@globalserve.net> > Jorgen wrote: > > Hi Greg. > > There's one thing that struck me as I read your post: > > > Do you mean to use a "imitating-image" (I didn't say fake) of an alien > > and show it to abductees to see if they have seen the figure before? > > Alright if it was a single alien-person, but to me it sounds like > > showing a picture of a black man to a race of whites and they will go > > "Yeah! He's black alright!". > > I don't mean to offend you, but you're not talking about a person - > > you're talking about a whole supposed alien race here, right? > > Jorgen / WUFOC > Hi, Jurgen. > I wasn't thinking of showing abductees a single alien image. I imagine > they've all seen images like it before, in the media, if not (as they > believe) in reality. > My thought was to show them several variants of that image. And the > images do vary a lot. The one on Communion has a longer face than the > one on Intruders, and the one Strieber posted recently looks more > fetus-like than either. > If the abductees mostly picked one image as closest to what they've > claimed to really see, I thought that might suggest their claims were > true. > Is that clearer? > Greg Sandow Hi Greg. I get your point. But did you get mine? Does all aliens look exactly the same (no individuals)? The descriptions vary a lot from what I've read and heard. Read my post above again. Kind regards, Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:13:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:13:59 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 ________________________________________ Date: 17 Dec 96 19:42:08 EST From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments and his best wishes for the holiday season and for the New Year to all on the List. Aha, Greg, John and alien handwriting. I quote: > Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:24:09 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > If the handwriting, or just writing or characters or icons or > whatever, was _firsthand_ I'd be a lot more inclined to want to study it. Yes indeed. Why don't they just hand us over a few parchments? After all, they must know Budd & Betty & everyone's blown their cover by now, don't they? However... Lacking the priceless MSS, John Powell suggests comparing 'original' and 'fresh' samples of alleged alien writing from each claimant (a vertical test) and then comparing these writings claimant v. claimant (an horizontal test). > We compare the two samples (the fresh one from the claimant and the > original one from the claimant) and statistically on a character by > character basis we'd expect equal or better than 80% similarity to > advance that example further in our dataset. > The work done above should be as 'blind' as possible. The people > acquiring the 'fresh' handwriting example should not have seen anybody's > previous examples, the person holding the references samples should not > yet see the 'fresh' samples, etc. > Ok, _NOW_, we have a dataset that is workable. So far so good, but you haven't any controls in this experiment. I'd suggest that an even more workable dataset would have a third axis, using the same abduction claimants and a control group of non-claimants (selection criteria to be agreed). AFTER the claimants have produced their "fresh" allegedly-alien scripts, you ask the claimants and the control group to write down their *impressions* of a couple of lines of writing in (a) the Greek alphabet (b) Arabic script (c) Hebrew alphabet (d) Chinese pictograms. It will be obvious to anyone who knows these scripts whether or not the writer is giving an impression or really knows them. You either wipe the latter from your dataset, or choose control group members who don't know these scripts. (As with Roman letters, handwritten Greek and Hebrew are significantly different in places from their printed forms; for all I know that's true of Arabic and Chinese too.) The point would be to try to get some measure of how far people's impressions differ from a known real thing. What they write doesn't have to make sense - we just want to know how accurately they recall details of unknown scripts that they have seen only casually. When they have completed their impressions, you show them a couple of lines of the real thing, for a couple of minutes or so, then ask them to reproduce them from memory. That gives you a measure of how accurate (compared to the generality, too) the claimants' memories for such things may be. The way to lay out the analyses is pretty obvious, I should think. What say? Good wheeze? Thanks for a fascinating debate, too. This really is a few orders of magnitude more worthwhile than anything involving the Pope. Peregrine, D of M Grand Abbott, Silent Order of Squirrel Fryers Draftsman of the Apocalypse
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 18 Wormwood - Answers from NASA & RSSI From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:09:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 01:10:02 -0500 Subject: Wormwood - Answers from NASA & RSSI Hi. Regarding the "Wormwood"-letter Art Bell recieved, I contacted (for the fun of it) NASA and the Russian RSSI. Here's the answers: ---------------------- Subject: Re: question Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 15:05:24 GMT From: pim@dpc.asc.rssi.ru (Alexander Pimakov) To: west@tripnet.se Hi Mr Jorgen Westman. Sorry, I can't help to you. Anybody don't know about project "Wormwood" in ours department. Best regards, Sasha Pimakov. ---------------------------- Subject: re: US Project Wormwood Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 00:55:42 -0500 From: criswick@conveyor.com (John R. Criswick) To: west@tripnet.se Hej Jorgen, Sorry, I haven't heard of Wormwood. Do you know anything more about it, like when or where it was to take place and who was involved. I can probably make some queries with people I know. Cheers, ...John Criswick ------------------- Darn!... And I who belived that they would admit it... (heh, heh) Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Dec 96 19:34:13 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 03:22:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance To James Easton: James, <<It was Bob Shell who had arranged with Kodak that they would test the film for free. >> Whoa! Is there some differences again! I don't know exactly where your own opinions are, but..... I thought the general concensus around here was that Bob Shell was not credible or reliable??? Is he credible when he says things that fit the "Santilli bashers" side of things but then not credible when he says things that are on the pro side? I don't feel I know Bob Shell or Ray Santilli well enough to make judgements on their characters. I know they both have been wrong at times, but who hasn't. There are others around that apparently know them much better than I do, because they make such judgement calls constantly. Until some sort of agreement is reached, how do we know if we are suppose to believe or disbelieve that Bob Shell can have the film tested for free, or tested at all for that matter, or that he made any arrangements at all? Did someone check? It's that tangled web thing again, James! Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Ellsberg on 'Secrets' From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:08:03 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 03:18:23 -0500 Subject: Ellsberg on 'Secrets' > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:05:31 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: ellsberg on secrets > Ed Stewart did us all a service by recommending the Paul McGinnis > website on military secrecy. Thank you, Greg. > I was browsing there, and found -- among other interesting and > impressive documents -- testimony Daniel Ellsberg gave before Congress > in 1973. As you noted in your message elsewhere, what is on the file has been edited through a couple of itenerations from the original Congressional testimomy. Just wanted to cite that the online file is based on what is in Fain, et al., "The Intelligence Community". For the in context and the full unedited testimony, one needs to go to the actual Joint Senate hearings by the Committees on the Judiciary and Government Operations held May 17, 1973. Also, transcripts should be available from the U.S. Government Printing Office. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 X-33 Program Completes Operations Review From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:19:37 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 03:21:50 -0500 Subject: X-33 Program Completes Operations Review Jim Cast Headquarters, Washington, DC December 18, 1996 (Phone: 202/358-1779) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Dom Amatore Marshall Space Flight Center, Hunstville, AL (Phone: 205/544-0031) Ron Lindeke Lockheed Martin Skunk Works, Palmdale, CA (Phone: 805/572-4153) RELEASE: 96-263 X-33 PROGRAM COMPLETES OPERATIONS REVIEW For the second time in as many months, government and industry managers have successfully completed a Preliminary Design Review (PDR) for the X-33 technology demonstration program. This design review for the operations segment and ground systems segment of the X-33 represents the last in a series of PDRs. The three day PDR conducted last week in California, with NASA and industry team members in attendance, confirmed readiness to begin detailed design of the X-33 Ground Support System and Launch Facility at Edwards Air Force Base, CA. Last month, a week-long PDR approved a baseline configuration for final detailed vehicle design and long-lead procurement. The next major milestones for the program are a series of Critical Design Reviews (CDRs) starting in January and culminating in an August Operations CDR. Construction of a 25-acre launch facility at Edwards is expected to begin in October 1997. The X-33, a half-scale technology demonstrator, is scheduled to make as many as fifteen flights during a 10- month period, beginning in March 1999. Launched vertically from Edwards, it will fly up to 15 times the speed of sound at altitudes approaching 50 miles. Potential landing sites are located in California, Utah, Montana and the state of Washington. The flagship vehicle in the agency's Reusable Launch Vehicle (RLV) program, X-33 is intended to pave the way for a full scale, commercially-developed RLV after the turn of the century, which could dramatically reduce the cost of putting payloads into space. - end -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Special Operations Manual 1-01 - Part 4 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:57:51 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 03:20:46 -0500 Subject: Special Operations Manual 1-01 - Part 4 Special Operations Manual SOM 1-01 - Part 4 Finally, for a wrap up, some general comments. 1. Nowhere in this manual is the prevention of taking souvenir discussed. If this is as serious of as the manual says, everyone would deposit their clothing in a container on leaving the exclusion area and a body cavity search should be considered, and then receive new clothing. For morale and dignity sake this could be part of a "decontamination procedure." (Unfortunate that the MJ12 personnel did think of an exclusion area, isn't it?) Those of you that have been in the military may remember that as you left the firing range you came to inspection arms in front of a commissioned officer and were required to say, "No brass or ammo, sir." You might have thought that this was some quaint military ritual. However, as some decided to disobey the written and verbal orders against taking live or spent ammunition off the range would later find out, this little exercise sealed their guilty at legal proceedings. Of course, SOM 1-01 is much more serious. So we probably would have each member of sign a certificate that he did not remove anything. 2. There is a planning process for military manuals. It is long and complicated. One of the NCOs where I worked diagramed it out on a flow chart for a presentation he was required to make. It stretched half way around the room. SOM 1-01 would be one in a series of planned manual since as can be seen from the foregoing the operation is more complicated than meets the eye. In the Appendix I we should see SOM 1-02, SOM 1-03, etc. with the dreaded term everyone in the military hates "TBP" To be published. However, nowhere in the manual are future publications mentioned. One must remember that these guys are supposedly the best and brightest and have unlimited "black" resources. If this is the best they can do in the planning cycle, maybe it's time for the president to junk MJ-12. 3. The format of this manual is sloppy. The way to get covered with spit and bad breathe is to hand in a manual manuscript which has a section one, but no section two or that has a subparagraph 21a, but no 21b. If the outline format does not have two items, then they are not numbered. That is basic. 4. The manual fails to address what the basic equipment each team should have. Specialized equipment that might be required should be discussed. The Appendix I should bulge out with references to authorization documents, technical and field manuals. The location of units and equipment that recovery teams can call on should be discussed in the manual. (Dec 8, 1941 is too late!) 5. The manual fails to address the composition of recovery teams: what specialties are required, what certifications and credentials should they have, what specialized team training is required, how will this be done. 6. How does some one become an MJ-12 team member. In the nuclear weapons program there is the Personal Reliability Program (PRP). The individual's administrative, medical, dental, etc. status is constantly screened. When you visit the dentist, the first place to go after your return is to the commander's office (or the PRP officer if the commander is a full colonel.) and tell him what treatment you received. The person's character, personnel status, any legal infractions are constantly monitored. All records of all PRP personnel checked at least quarterly. SOM 1-01 is silent on this. If you think about it, this program is more vital than nuclear weapons. A break through in technology in this era means the owner could rule the world. Of course, the PRP evolved over the years. However, the start did exist in 1954. The anticipated counter argument is that the individual will received Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmentalize Information (SCI) clearance and be indoctrinated into the program. Then the old broken record starts up again: this should be mentioned in the manual and Appendix I should reference these documents concern SCI indoctrination. 7. The only operation that the manual addresses in detail is the simple packing and unpacking of material for routine military shipment. (BTW Nowhere is the military specification (MIL-SPECS) for the packing material discussed (ie material strength, heat resistance, etc.) nor are the Federal Stock Numbers of the packing material provided.....) 8. The most important thing about this manual it fell out of the sky. It is supposedly written by some of the best brains in the country or people who can get the best brains. The military is in the middle of this, but the manual is full of military gaffes. It was not sent (that we know of) to Peter Jennings or Jack Anderson, but to Don Berliner. So we are to believe that someone somewhere in a highly classified facility risked it all to send to this bomb shell to someone with little media influence. Hmmmm. + + + Is it possible that this manual is real? Possible yes, but highly unlikely. + + + How about an alternate more likely possibility. An Air Force buck Sgt. with some intelligence training (but who probably fell asleep in technical intelligence class) and some friends cut and pasted this little number from a military packing manual. The buck Sgt. was too young to have been around in 1954 so there are so many anachronisms. I have no proof, of course. Just a little possibility..... Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: The X-mas Files From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:31:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 03:19:08 -0500 Subject: Re: The X-mas Files > Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:22:01 -0800 > From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The X-mas Files > References: <2.2.32.19961217223355.006cc0ac@globalserve.net> =20 > > From: RSchatte@aol.com > > Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:39:12 -0500 > > To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) > > Subject: The XMas Files =20 > Thank you, Rebecca. Another entry. This one originated in the > skunk-works mailing list last year. =20 > Enjoy, =20 > Ed Stewart > ---------- > Twas the night before Christmas,=20 Still another entry . . . T=92was the night before "Fools Day" And fraught through the list -- Protests of Objectivity! . . .Got some lemons in a twist! All the arguments were strung =20 From proud battlements with care; When in hopes glory called, And centric fame would be theirs. This knots up our tails And fuzzes the chatter! Incredulity reigns =96=20 No one cares what=92s the matter!=20 While Greer sneers his odd snatch, And Bell fans all the flames, Streiber waits in strange shadows Awaiting new names. Self absorbed, and abstruse Prevarication as *art*,=20 Some reflect in this void That they _do_ have a part. But it=92s mud in the water; It=92s a chemical snow; It=92s made a fool=92s errand; This wish just, to *know*. . . So onward Stan Friedman, and smile Ed Stewart K-Randle, and Velez and Sandow. But make room for Pat=92s moebius, anomaly's afoot, And our minds have to take a new side road. Know that "Fool=92s Day" was the old *new* year. All, once vernal pre-justinian.=20 And on that day Hale-Bopp is the closest, Which may _still_ splash some mud on your linen! Lehmberg@snowhill.com If your ideological sheets do get splashed with a little mud it may be because you are living a little too close to the road =96 a road mired in proud innuendo, selfishly hoarded fact, and a cultural wish to keep the masses ignorant. Or, why DO we continue to teach *the mid night ride of Paul Revere* as a real event? Yeah, that=92s right =96 it never happened! And if that _didn=92t_ happen, then what _has_ happened, and how do we know? =20 And with regard to objectivity =96 one impressive lurker on this list has shared with me that: ************************************************************* "This discussion of [objectivity] is just as personal and every bit as=20 vindictive. Everybody knows, and I mean everybody, that when you walk=20 in the room to do your thesis defense that even the weakest member of=20 your committee (the one you selected because he was rumored to have=20 Alzheimer=92s and would probably be an easy sign-off) can shred your=20 methodology chapter without even trying. I was a [*] major, but even when you look to the supposed "hard sciences" its still true. They sign off because they decide as a group that you have done enough work.=20 Objectivity is an ideal for which we strive. It's not something that I=20 genetically possess and you don=92t. What really disturbs me is that in=20 my short time of listening to these people, and I might be unfair about=20 this, is it seems that objectivity isn=92t the issue. They are using it=20 as a club. The real issues are fear and power - same as those in your=20 local University." **************************************************** This fellow nails it for me, and I hope he shares his thoughts directly=20 with all of us. C=92mon in, dude! The water is at once too hot, and too cold, and may not even _be_ water!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 A Fake 'Whitley Strieber'..... From: Whitley Strieber <strieber@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:53:25 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 03:19:56 -0500 Subject: A Fake 'Whitley Strieber'..... There have been a number of false newsgroup posts allegedly from me floating around the internet. Most recently, a false "Whitley Strieber" post has apologized for causing discomfort to the Japanese National Observatory and stated that I have changed my position on the object that has been photographed near the Hale-Bopp comet. This post is a lie, put simply. My position has not changed regarding this matter. In the Japanese photograph, the star field behind both the comet and the object is streaking. This because the 'scope is following the comet. It is also following the object, which is not streaking either. For all the shrill denials, the physics of the photograph remain clear: object and comet must be traveling together. No amount of clever "debunking" can change this elementary reality. Whether the object will still be visible when the comet returns from its journey behind the sun is anybody's guess. But it was there when that photograph was taken.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 WUFOC news update From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 01:53:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 03:23:19 -0500 Subject: WUFOC news update Hi. WUFOC has a new load of news-articles (63 of them!) on its UFO News update page (December 19th). You can chose by frames or non-frames. Enjoy and have a happy X-mas everyone! Jorgen Westman / WUFOC http://www.wufoc.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: X-33 Program Completes Operations Review From: dan syes <dsyes@micron.net> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 02:16:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:11:43 -0500 Subject: Re: X-33 Program Completes Operations Review UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:19:37 -0500 (EST) > From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov > Subject: X-33 Program Completes Operations Review > To: undisclosed-recipients:; > snip I found this add in a local paper...Never seen one like this before and thought I might share it...Any spelling error are most likely mine. Dan ------------------------------------------------------------------ (Snazzy NASA Emblem) NASA ACCEPTING PUBLIC COMMENTS ON X-33 FLIGHT TEST PLAN NASA is accepting public, and state and federal agency comments for inclusion in an Environmental Impact Statement(EIS) on it's proposed plan to conduct flight tests of the X-33 Advanced Technology Demonstrator launch vehicle. The X-33 is a half scale, wedge shaped experimental vehicle about the size of a small commuter airliner. Plans call for 15 tests flights of the X-33 in 1999, all originating from Edwards Airforce Base in Southern Calfornia. Later mid-range flights would land at Dugway Proving Ground, Utah, and long-range flights would land at either Malstrom AFB., Mont, or Moses Lake, Wash. Although final flight paths have not been chosen, the X-33 may glide unfueled over remote ares of Nevada, Oregon or Idaho at an altitude of about 50 miles en route to the proposed landing sites. Affected agencies and the public are encouraged to offer input to help identify issues to be addressed in NASA's environmetnal anaylysis. Written comments may be mailed to: Dr. Rebeccca C. McCaleb, Director Environmental Engr & Managment-AE01 Marshall Space Flight Center AL 36812 Also people may forward comments for the EIS by faxing to (205)544-8259 or emailing to x33eis@msfc.nasa.gov. Comments also may be provided by calling 1-800-833-0678 and leaving a message on the recording machine. NASA will use its best effort to transcribe verbal comments;however, NASA cannot guarantee teh same accuracy as receiving comments in writting. Teh formal scoping period has been extended more than a month until Jan 10. 1997, to allow for additional public comment;however NASA will accept comments relevant to the analysis throughout the EIS process, which is expected to conclude in Sep 1997. To view a copy of the EIS Notice of Intent, visit the program's Web site at http://rlv.msfc.nasa.gov For more information on the environmental analysis or to add your name to those wishing to receive a copy of the draft EIS, scheduled to be released in the late spring of 1997, write to the address above.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Alice Springs Sightings From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:14:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:12:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Alice Springs Sightings Further to the information concerning a UFO sighted near the Pine Gap NSA (National Security Agency) facility at Alice Springs, Northern Australia on 26 November 1996. In a previous posting, I did mention that UFOs had been observed near the Menwith Hill (between Harrogate and Skipton, North Yorkshire) NSA listening facility in November. In fact, the first sighting took place at 7.08pm on Thursday, 7 November; the second was around 4.00pm on Friday, 22 November. Three witnesses in total reported their experience to the police. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 'Debris' Film? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 22:43:13 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:13:20 -0500 Subject: 'Debris' Film? Dear colleague, In the Santilli film of the alleged debris film the 'wreckage' has a number of tags on it with letters and numbers on them. Do you know of any US Army source who could look at thesre 'tags' to see if they resemble and known uS military form of 'tagging' material of any kind. Any help with this would be much appreciated. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Merry Christmas From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 03:18:59 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:14:06 -0500 Subject: Merry Christmas Dear Colleagues, I would like to take this opportunity to wish you a very Merry Christamas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year. All the very best, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Death of an Innocent From: "Supczak, Robert" <RSUPCZAK@gects.ge.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:45:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:15:37 -0500 Subject: Death of an Innocent Hi Errol, Can you please post this poem, it has absolutely noting to do with the ufology but it is rather important with respect to the season. DEATH OF AN INNOCENT I went to a party, Mom, I remembered what you said. You told me not to drink, Mom, so I drank soda instead. I really felt proud inside, Mom, the way you said I would. I didn't drink and drive, Mom, even thought the other said I should. I know I did the right thing, Mom, I know you are always right. Now the party is finally ending, Mom, as everyone is driving out of sight. As I got into my car, Mom, I know I'd get home in one piece. Because of the way you raised me, so responsible and sweet. I started to drive away, Mom, but as I pulled out onto the road. the other car didn't see me, Mom, and hit me like a load. As I lay there on the pavement, Mom, I hear the policeman say, the other guy is drunk, Mom, and now I'm the one who will pay. I'm lying her dying, Mom, I wish you'd get here soon. How could this happen to me, Mom? My life just burst like a balloon. There is blood all around me, Mom, and most of it is mine. I hear the medic say, Mom, I'll die in a short time. I just wanted to tell you, Mom, I swear I didn't drink. It was the other, Mom. The others didn't think. He was probably at the same party as I. The only difference is, he drank and I will die. Why do people drink, Mom? It can ruin your whole life. I'm feeling sharp pains now. Pains just like a knife. The guy who hit me is walking, Mom, and I don't think it's fair. I'm lying here dying and all he can do is stare. Tell my brother not to cry, Mom, Tell Daddy to be brave. And when I go to heaven, Mom, put "Daddy's Girl" on my grave. someone should have told him, Mom, not to drink and drive. If only they hold told him, Mom, I would still be alive. My breath is getting shorter, Mom, I'm becoming very scared. Please don't cry for me, Mom, When I needed you, you were always there. I have one last question, Mom, before I say good bye. I didn't drink and drive, so why am I the one to die? I want to wish all a very happy and SAFE holiday season. Please don't drink and drive. Robert Supczak Customs and Traffic Co-ordinator Direct: (905) 507-5022, Dial Comm.: 8*498-5022 Internet: rsupczak@gects.ge.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:46:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:14:53 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Stanton Friedman wrote: >Re Kevins comments: I am sorry I didn't put (grin) after my comment >which was not an allegation about you and Ed and disinformation. I should have pointed out that Friedman's retraction of his statement after making it really isn't sufficient since there are those on this list who seem to have taken it at face value. I notice that ex-priest, Richard Boylan was all to ready to accept the allegation as fact with nothing to support it. <.Re the 29 papers referred to by me as <relating to Roswell and MJ-12 and not referenced by you. NONE were self <published. I noted 3 other papers that are self published. The rest were <published by somebody else like IUR etc. Stan Friedman I seem to have missed something here. Once there were 70 papers that he had produced. Now there are 29. But there are three that were self-published. Others appeared in newsletters for UFO organizations and had a circulation of about 5000 at best. That, of course, is not considered to be "professional" publication. One of the exceptions that you mentioned, FATE, is certainly not the epitome of journalistic excellence with their stories on ghosts, predictions for the coming year, and "snakes and salvation." So how many of your papers have been published in magazines or books that have a circulation above 5000? And how many were published in magazines that actually PAID for them? Sure, I'm being a little snobbish here. But I'm not hiding behind a title that is what, twenty-five years old? I'm not telling people that I had learned that people would believe anything I said because of my "golden credentials. I'm not the one dodging questions when they get too tough, or changing the rules because I don't like the way the game is being played. Come on, Stan, answer the questions about MJ-12, Area 51, and the rest, or admit that you don't have the answers yet and it's beginning to look as if you swallowed the ball. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:53:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:16:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance > From: HoustonSky@aol.com > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance > > > There is nothing in the footage to show that the military or any > > > government agency was involved. > > Did you forget about the scene showing a guy in military uniform on > > the other side of the 'window?' > Which footage did you watch? <g> Nothing I have seen shows this. > The only hint of a uniform (if you want to call it that) is in the > debris footage. Sweat stained armpits, shirt, tie, belt... that's > about it. Yes, Theresa has just informed me that anything I say about the Santilli Hoax is irrelevant because I must not be talking about the same autopsy film <grin>. Apparently I'm thinking about _another_ film, but I don't know which one... -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:47:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:17:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance > > Did you forget about the scene showing a guy in military uniform on > > the other side of the 'window?' > No such scene occurs in the Santilli autopsy footage. I don't > know what footage you looked at but it appears we are not talking > about the same footage. Therefore, anything that you say about it is > irrelevant. > It amazes me how many people haven't even examined the evidence > that they are so keen to judge. Well, its been over a year since I saw the Santilli film but I was pretty sure there's a short part showing a guy on the other side of the window wearing a military uniform. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Carl Sagan dies at 62 From: CNN Inteeractive Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:38:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:38:36 -0500 Subject: Carl Sagan dies at 62 http://cnn.com/US/9612/20/sagan/ Carl Sagan dies at 62 Astronomer, author looked for what the universe might hold December 20, 1996 Web posted at: 6:30 a.m. EST From correspondent Norma Quarles NEW YORK (CNN) -- Astronomer Carl Edward Sagan, a gifted storyteller who extolled and explored the grandeur and mystery of the universe in lectures, books and an acclaimed TV series, died Friday after a two-year battle with bone marrow disease. He was 62. Sagan died of pneumonia at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle, where he had a bone-marrow transplant in April 1995, a center spokeswoman said. The center had identified his disease as myelodysplasia, a form of anemia also known as preleukemia syndrome. Born in New York City in 1934, Sagan was a noted astronomer whose lifelong passion was searching for intelligent life in the cosmos. "The significance of a finding that there are other beings who share this universe with us would be absolutely phenomenal, it would be an epochal event in human history," Sagan once said. Sagan began researching the origins of life in the 1950s and went on to play a leading role in every major U.S. spacecraft expedition to the planets. "We have looked close-up at dozens of new worlds. Worlds we never saw before. And unless we are so stupid to destroy ourselves, we are going to be moving out to space in the next century," he said. "And if I'm fortunate enough to have played a part in the first preliminary reconnaissance in the solar system, that's a terrifically exciting thing." "We have swept through all of the planets in the solar system, from Mercury to Neptune, in a historic 20 (to) 30 year age of spacecraft discovery," Sagan once said. Sagan made his mark early with research showing that Venus is scorching hot and Mars is a cold desert. Among his many gifts was the ability to communicate his knowledge about the cosmos. "Are we an exceptionally unlikely accident or is the universe brimming over with intelligence? (It's) a vital question for understanding ourselves and our history," Sagan said. Radio telescopes listening for signs of life in the billions of stars and galaxies, as part of a program close to Sagan's heart, have so far received no response. "It says something about the rarity and preciousness of life on this planet," he said. "The flip side of not finding life on another planet is appreciating life on Earth." Outside his research, Sagan also hosted a popular television series on PBS called "Cosmos." He published hundreds of scientific papers; wrote eight books, including the Pulitzer Prize winning "The Dragons of Eden"; and was a professor of astronomy at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. Sagan came close to death twice after being diagnosed with blood disease in 1994. Bone marrow donated by his sister, along with chemotherapy, put his cancer in remission. Speaking at a conference after that episode, he said, "I'd like to begin with a personal remark. I've been in Seattle for the past months, fighting a life-threatening illness which it looks as if I've surmounted." Despite his battle with cancer, Sagan continued his dream of going to the stars. "The job is by no means done," he said. "We will look for the boundary between the solar system and the interstellar medium and then we'll voyage on forever in the dark between the stars.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:16:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:52:41 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > > > > These folks seem to have an extremely difficult time > > > disassociating themselves from the tremendous emotional > > > attachment to their experience. > > Anything as seriously traumatic as this is going to present a whole > > set of separate problems, which is why I think the psychological > > aspect and any related therapy should be separate from any > > research/investigation. > Well, this opens to the question of whether the therapy should > come before the research. I think it should. > Another question that comes to mind is how is therapy > administered to treat a problem for which there is no precedent > within the mental health field? To be sure, there has been work > done with those who have been abducted and held against their > will, but these cases involved human captors. The equation is > not the same. I feel that in these regards, those who have > undergone this type of experience and have been able to deal > with the problem successfully, would be of some value here. I think it would be possible to treat the symptoms or treat the after-effects without having it previously established that alien abductions are real. > > There's no reason why abductees can't be involved in the > > research/investigation but there are some otherwise obvious > > groundrules associated with that. It isn't a crime that one or > > another person has difficulty separating themselves from the > > phenomenon, I'd be surprised if that wasn't pretty much always the > > case. > I was not referring to disassociating oneself from the phenomena > John, but from the emotional content that came as a result of > the experience. However, that is also another point. One who has > had this type of experience and intends to enter into > research/investigation of abductions and UFOlogy, should become > capable of laying aside any beliefs and/or assumptions that came > about as a result of his/her experience in order to be > effective. Same thing as I was saying really. Its much more difficult to be an objective investigator if you are also a victim of that which you are investigating. > > I'm not so sure how overwhelming the number really are. True, its a > > lot of abductees but they are mostly coming from a very small number > > of abductionists. At any rate, the anecdotal data to date, > > overwhelming or not, is clearly enough to indicates that > > _something_, rather than nothing, is going on. > I will concede that, but it is strange and in my view, real. I > have seen various tentative hypothesis' put forth in an attempt > to explain away these phenomena, but frankly John, I feel that > the majority of these are more strange than the notion of some > type of being whether from across the galaxy or from a slight > phase of reality away from that we are used to perpetrating > these events. Whatever it turns out to be I'm pretty sure it will be strange...<grin> > As you know, I have my own idea as to what constitutes these events. > I feel most strongly that it is a mistake as well as quite > possibly constituting a great amount of danger for many in > assuming/believing that these events are perpetrated by beings > from another world across the galaxy. I feel the truth could be > far stranger than that. The risk in thinking that nothing is happenning is the same as thinking something specific is happenning and being wrong. Whatever it is that's happenning doesn't apparently know or care what we think... -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:37:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:54:28 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments and his best wishes for > the holiday season and for the New Year to all on the List. Ditto. > > If the handwriting, or just writing or characters or icons or > > whatever, was _firsthand_ I'd be a lot more inclined to want to > > study it. > Yes indeed. Why don't they just hand us over a few parchments? After > all, they must know Budd & Betty & everyone's blown their cover by > now, don't they? However... They are covering up how atrocious their penmanship realy is. > Lacking the priceless MSS, John Powell suggests comparing 'original' > and 'fresh' samples of alleged alien writing from each claimant (a > vertical test) and then comparing these writings claimant v. claimant > (an horizontal test). Exactly. > > We compare the two samples (the fresh one from the claimant and the > > original one from the claimant) and statistically on a character by > > character basis we'd expect equal or better than 80% similarity to > > advance that example further in our dataset. > > The work done above should be as 'blind' as possible. The people > > acquiring the 'fresh' handwriting example should not have seen > > anybody's previous examples, the person holding the references > > samples should not yet see the 'fresh' samples, etc. > > Ok, _NOW_, we have a dataset that is workable. > So far so good, but you haven't any controls in this experiment. I'd > suggest that an even more workable dataset would have a third axis, > using the same abduction claimants and a control group of > non-claimants (selection criteria to be agreed). AFTER the claimants > have produced their "fresh" allegedly-alien scripts, you ask the > claimants and the control group to write down their > *impressions* of a couple of lines of writing in (a) the Greek > alphabet (b) Arabic script (c) Hebrew alphabet (d) Chinese pictograms. > It will be obvious to anyone who knows these scripts whether or not > the writer is giving an impression or really knows them. You either > wipe the latter from your dataset, or choose control group members who > don't know these scripts. (As with Roman letters, handwritten Greek > and Hebrew are significantly different in places from their printed > forms; for all I know that's true of Arabic and Chinese too.) The > point would be to try to get some measure of how far people's > impressions differ from a known real thing. What they write doesn't > have to make sense - we just want to know how accurately they recall > details of unknown scripts that they have seen only casually. > When they have completed their impressions, you show them a couple of > lines of the real thing, for a couple of minutes or so, then ask them > to reproduce them from memory. That gives you a measure of how > accurate (compared to the generality, too) the claimants' memories for > such things may be. If I understand correctly you're trying to make two specific distinctions: 1) How good are they at remembering 'foreign' symbology. 2) To what degree (if any) has their alien symbology been affected by known foreign symbology. So, procedurally, we have this: 1) Sketch the alleged alien symbology. 2) Sketch what you think is foreign symbology. a) If this foreign symbology closely resembles their alien symbology then we do likley have a problem. b) If it doesn't then fine. 3) Observe known foreign symbology. 4) Re-sketch that foreign symbology. a) If the re-sketch closely matches the observed foreign symbology then perhaps we have a good observer. b) If it doesn't then perhaps we have a poor observer. > The way to lay out the analyses is pretty obvious, I should think. > What say? Good wheeze? I like it but it does create some interesting analysis problems. What do we say about a claimant whose tested observation powers are poor yet who's 1st and 2nd alien samples closely match each other and the _original_ reference samples? (I think realistically we have to ignore that oddity unless we can prove they cheated.) Additionally, what do we say about a claimant who knows foreign alphabet, both foreign alphabet tests are fine, the alien-foreign conmparison doesn't match well, and whose alien sample closely matches the _original_ reference sample? I think this is the 'best' path through the tests. I _do_ think that separating out the claimants who's alien sample closely matches known foreign samples and then making separate comparisons with _original_ reference samples would be interesting. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Dec 17, '96 'Fireball' From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:23:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:58:04 -0500 Subject: Dec 17, '96 'Fireball' ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 03:31:02 -0800 From: Laurie Elmore <wonderess@geocities.com> Reply-to: wonderess@geocities.com To: SKYWATCH <skywatch@wic.net> Subject: Fire in the Sky....... What is a meteorlike flash exactly? On Dec. 17th, many in the Northwest called it the "fire in the sky"...... There was this green ball that was on fire....with a tail that spread out white sparks quite a ways.... This meteorlike light flashed across the sky and was reportedly seen from Salem, Oregon clear up north to British Columbia, Canada. In Anacortes, Washington, a Radio station, KLKI received 35-40 calls following the incident. Many thought that it might be a plane crash and thus called to report it. Mr. O'Carrol from Courtenay,B.C., was scraping his car windows when he noticed that the nearby houses suddenly appeared to become more visible. He said he looked up in the sky and saw a huge flaming sparking greenish-blue, bright white light ball and it seemed to be heading west and then kind of burned out like an amazing shooting star. Seconds later there was quite a boom and he thought "WOW, I wonder what that was." Several pilots also saw the bright light. Gary Mayer, a Federal Aviation Administration duty officer in Renton, Wash., said the light was NOT caused by any aircraft and he ASSUMED it was a meteorite. The U.S. Space Command at Colorado Springs, Colorado, also said that the light was not a manmade object. Command spokeswoman Franki Webster said this is a period of high meteor activity. Radio stations throughout the region and as far east as Spokane, Wash. recieved calls from people who saw the streaking light. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Code of Ethics From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:42:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:57:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of Ethics > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of Ethics > A few remarks on John Powell's defense of his indefensible attacks on > "abductionologists." > John had said, in so many words, that people like Budd Hopkins are in > it for the money. I objected, saying (among other things): > > > John, since you believe in objective evidence, please show me the > > > evidence that abduction researchers are making money from their > > > work. John Mack might be, and Whitley Strieber got a huge advance > > > for Communion, because he was already a best-selling writer. > His answer: > > True on both counts. I'm not in a position to prove with objective > > evidence that they are or aren't making money. But I will gladly > > analyze their financial situations soon as Hopkins turns over to me > > his tax returns for the last 10 years <GRIN>. > Fine. You've just proved my point. You don't have evidence that > abduction researchers are making money. Now -- with a grin, yet -- you > assert your right to keep making your accusations, until Budd Hopkins > supplies documentary evidence that they're not true. > What a fascinating double standard. He needs to submit evidence, you > don't. What evidence could I possibly submit? His financial records are the only objective evidence I can think of and I don't have access to them. If you can think of some _other_ objective evidence that I could submit then please let me know and I will get to work on it immediately. Conversely, what _objective_ evidence is there that they _aren't_ making money? > You claim that abduction researchers are intellectually > dishonest. Nevertheless, it's you, not them, who resorts to > unsubstantiated personal attacks. If I read you correctly, you even > glory in your right to make personal attacks without evidence. Glory!?!?! Where did I write that? Is it "intellectually dishonest" to make money in 20th century America? Let's remember that Hopkins is an artist, not a medical or science professional. I'm not even sure if the term "intellectually dishonest" even applies to him. > To which you answered, with appalling confidence in your knowledge of > book publishing: > > That's absolutely ridiculous Greg. Hopkins and Jacobs LOSE money > > when they write a book!!! Not a chance...<grin> > Let me try to explain more clearly. The key phrase in what I wrote was > this one: "Very few people who publish books get advances large enough > to pay for the time it takes to write one." I don't recall that Hopkins or Jacobs are unemployed. They are each employed (Hopkins is an artist and Jacobs is a professor) and I assume they are making money as a result. If they aren't it isn't our problem. I'll give you an example. I'm currently employed, I have a job, I get a salary, I do some work which takes quite a bit of my time. If I decided to write a book I have two choices: 1) Quit my job to have more time to write the book; or, 2) Write the book in my spare time. If I take Option 1 it was _MY_ choice to give up a steady salary. You (or I) cannot then claim that the time/money lost was the result of not making enough on the resulting book to make it profitable...<grin> If I take Option 2 then my worktime is covered and my spare time, like everyone else's, is just that - _spare_ time. Uncompensated time. > So now consider the position of someone who gets a $15,000 advance, > which is a figure quoted to me by one prominent writer of UFO books, > and to the best of my knowledge is the kind of money most writers of > books of any kind are looking at. > How long does it take to write a book? A year of full-time work, or > the equivalent of full-time work? Six months of the same? Hard to name > an exact figure, but books normally take a long time to write. Suppose > you get a $15,000 advance, and spend six months of full-time work or > the equivalent writing the book. You're working at a rate of $30,000 a > year, which I assume is less than Dave Jacobs makes as a professor, or > Budd makes or made as a painter. > It's in that sense -- just to start with -- that you're taking a loss. > You're working for far less than your normal pay. And yes, John, > you're still getting paid! I don't deny the literal truth of that. I guess the phrase "Don't quit your day job" applies here <grin>. If these or any other people _CHOSE_ to quit their "day" job then that is their choice. They cannot then complain about whatever losses result from that decision. > But we're not yet through with the economics of book-writing. Here's > another question to ask: What are the "opportunity costs" (to use the > technical term from economics) of writing a book? What opportunities > to make extracurricular money at your usual rate of pay did you miss > because you spent your time writing a book instead? There ya go again: "usual rate of pay..." Look, if you quit your job to write a book then it was your choice, it was your gamble. Sometimes these gambles pay off sometimes they don't. > And it goes further than that. Did you take time away from your normal > occupation? If you did, there's a cost, perhaps in the future (because > your career won't the develop the way it might have), and, in Budd's > case, perhaps in the present, because he won't have as much time to > paint and promote and sell his paintings. Then he should stick to painting paintings...<grin> > Finally, what value do you put on the free time you devour to write > your book? Free time, spare time, has no value. (That's why its called 'free' time...<grin>) > What about the cost to your personal and family life? It goes with the territory, its part of the pluese and minuses of making such a decision. > In the end, > there's a bottom line, and it works out something like this. I want to > write a book. I know, in a general way, what it's going to take out of > me. The publisher offers me an advance. Do I think that sum covers the > implicit and explicit costs of writing the book? Would I accept it, if > someone offered it for work I didn't care about, that took as much > time as the book would take? > If the answer is no -- if, for any other endeavor, the money offered > just wouldn't be worth the time and possible lost income required of > me -- then the book is essentially a labor of love. It's in that sense > that I say Budd and other UFO writers (and plenty of non-UFO writers > as well) are taking a loss when they write. If you think I'm being > arbitrary with the concept of "loss," go argue with an economist. I don't think you're being arbitrary, I think you're being myopic and you're failing to apply conservative responsibility where it should be applied - to the person who made the decision. These folks _chose_ to assume whatever risk/loss was associated with writing a book. That isn't my problem. If Hopkins could have made $500,000 painting paintings in six months but only made $200,000 from a book that took six months to write then that's his loss. Would he or you be whining about it if the numbers were reversed? > John, I realize I'm going on about this at great length. The reason, I > think, is that you're treating me with the same disrespect you show > Budd Hopkins. I made a point you don't understand. It happens to be > about a field I made my living in for 15 years -- writing -- so > possibly I know what I'm talking about. Possibly, though, I didn't > express myself clearly. More possibly <grin> these silly excuses don't sway me... If one can't make the money they 'think' they should make writing a book then perhaps they should get another job... If the expenses of writing a book exceed the advance then perhaps they didn't plan the work properly ahead of time, perhaps they didn't negotiate a proper advance, perhaps the publisher took advantage of them. Who knows? In the end if you can't make money doing what you're doing then you should do something else. Rationalizing the loss as a labor of love is at least less objectionable than hearing the person whine about it but then if it is a labor of love why are they still complaining about the money??? > So, for whatever reason, what I said didn't make sense to you. Your > response, with your trademark grin, was to say I'm being ridiculous. It made complete sense to me. I think your rationalizing is ridiculous. > Would it occur to you to ask questions before you shoot off your > attack? > "Greg," you might say. "Your comment doesn't make sense to me. You > appear to be saying that someone who makes money is really losing it. > I know you're not <that> stupid. Would you clarify what you mean?" Actually, I already know what's involved in writing a book. > First, I take this as a personal attack, intended or not, because I've > worked for years as a journalist. Would you care to debate the > accuracy of my own work (which you don't know a thing about)? The phrase "standards of American journalism" is an obvious generalization. You may personalize that and take it as an attack if you chose. No, I'm not interested in discussing the accuracy of your work. Do you take _that_ as a personal attack too? Your speech on American journalism nearly brought me to tears but it was too long to quote again... > Overall -- both from what I've seen myself and from > what I read -- I'd say the standards are reasonably good (with big > exceptions here and there, and with the necesssary qualification that > print is better than TV, and that newspapers, on the whole, are better > than some of the most popular magazines). I challenge you to show me > rigorous, thorough, and detailed evidence that this isn't true. Challenge me all you want. Magazine, newspaper and TV journalism _IN GENERAL_ has mediocre standards and is written at a 9th grade level. Actually, there is a scientific study out there somewhere that states that magazine and newspaper writing is at the 9th grade reading and comprehension level. I see no reason whatsoever why we should accept such standards (regardless of the level at which you place them) when _higher_ standards are easily possible. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Code of Ethics/Film Analysis From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 05:42:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:53:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of Ethics/Film Analysis > From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: Re: Film analyses > > >> We actually have come a long way it just seems like we haven't > >> because we don't have THE answer. We now have the technology to > >> properly analyze photographs and films and in the last few years > >> we've determined that two long-standing items (one photograph and > >> one film) >were actually ordinary objects filmed/photographed in > >> extraordinary circumstances. > - - - - - > JC: Steven, I wasn't aware of this. I must have missed this on > another of your threads. Could you possibly supply the names and > dates of the photograph & film, what firm did the technical analyses, > what were the ordinary objects that were misinterpreted and how I > might obtain a copy of this report? It wasn't on any other thread, just a mention here. I don't remember the details but when I get some time I'll look it up. The film is one that has been around I think since the 60s. It shows a silvery disk-like object slowly moving above a ridge line, bright sunny day, I think shot in California. Only a few years analysis showed it was a small plane. The photograph shows an odd looking small object apparently hovering a foot or two above a field. Analysis showed it was actually a road sign photographed from a moving vehicle. I think this was covered in a JUFOS paper. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Code of ethics From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:42:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:55:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of ethics > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > > > > Correct. But, due to the tremendous amount of psychic shock > > > attendant to most if not all 'alien' abduction cases, these > > > are the 'professionals' who are likely to be chosen to deal with > > > the problem. Privately (now known by any who reads this), I feel > > > that the shock would be better dealt with by one steeped in > > > spirituality then in psychology. I suspect that spirituality > > > has everything to do with the problem. By 'spirituality' I AM > > > not necessarily referring to those of a clerical persuasion, > > > although there are certainly those of the ministry that are > > > of a high degree of spirituality. There are a multitude of facets > > > to this gem of inquiry my friend. Among these is awareness. > > We have self-claimed experiencers from virtually all faiths > > and religions so I'm think that a spiritual approach might be > > pretty difficult to come up with. Certainly for some people their > > particular religious faith is going to be severely challenged by > > these experiences. > Question: How did my statement refer necessarily to any of > RELIGIOUS persuasion John? > Question: Why and how does the term SPIRITUAL equate to the > condition of RELIGION? You didn't necessarily refer to any specific religion but each religion has its own spirituality (which it necessarily thinks is singularly right, with every other spirituality being specifically wrong). I don't know why spirituality and religion are linked. I'm not a religious or spiritual person. They seem to be linked to me. > In my view, spirituality and faith have really very little to do > with religion and dogma John. > It has been my experience that religion has served to retard > spirituality and hinder faith in many rather than to perpetuate > it. Well, you and _I_ can agree with that but the other 80% of the world's population that actively believes in one or another religios dogma apparently doesn't agree with that <grin>. > > But if you could _only_ pick one to start with???? > Ahhhh well, responsibly I would work toward getting the player > off of the bench. Me too. > > That's the facet I'm talking about, that's the _only_ MHP > > aspect I'm talking about. Just looking after the health/wellness of > > the experiencer, dealing with the trauma in a traditional > > theraputic setting. That is something MHPs do all the time and they > > really don't have to have been raped to know how to help rape > > victims and they really don't have to know much if anything about > > alleged alien abductions/contact to help those people. > Unfortunately, the particular mental health professional in > question didn't provide any therapy at all, but rather attempted > to convince me that my experience was a beneficial one conducted > by benevolent beings. That was extremely unfortunate and hopefully you've managed to undo most of that silliness. As we now know that individual wasn't an acceptable MHP to begin with. > This really only served to compound the > problem. When I began to attempt to take a look at my experience > from a metaphysical/spiritual viewpoint after some research, I > was able after a time to begin to accept what had happened to > me. I must however qualify that I only accept that something > exceedingly strange happened. I recall the events as having a > third dimensional reality, but question a great portion of that > as being fact. Most experiencers I've talked to would say something similar. The high strangeness of the experience, and various specific events, seem to stand almost as a contradiction to it being a 3D-real event. > > Standard therapy isn't about whether your experience is real > > or not, its just about the issues related to you and your reactions. > Well, I suppose that this is true. I know that I have come to an > understanding of my reactions concerning the event. That's largely the name of the game. Therapy can't, shouldn't and generally won't prove something right or wrong - just get you back in the game. In you case it was mostly self-therapy and you aren't the only person who mostly helped themselves. A non-trivial part of traditional psychology is helping you to become your own best therapist. > > Some experiencers go through a period when its extremely > > important for them to tell others about what happenned to them for > > the purpose of self-testing their own telling of the experiences and > > for the purpose of self-testing their belief by attempting to > > transfer some amount of that belief to the listener. > Sure. I found myself in the position of seriously questioning my > own sanity. Equally important from my standpoint, was that I was > thrown into absolute confusion and resulting fear as well as > shock over the fact that some very elite training that I had > undergone years ago and which some attributes of this I had > practiced for the better part of my life had availed me nothing. There's nothing at all wrong with the self-testing-by-telling phase that people go through. It very clearly shows the internal turmoil and questioning that's going on within a person. I think that tends to demonstrate that something extremely strange did happen to the individual. > > As an example only, I'm sure most of us have at one time or > > another met a recently converted born-again type person who was > > totally intent on converting _us_ at that very moment. Part of > > what's happenning in that event is that the person is getting > > something positive simply from the telling/re-telling of their > > story. They belief in their experience is invigorated by the > > re-telling of it. Another part of what's happening is that the > > person is hoping to get a form of validation by causing the > > other person to accept their story. After all, if you can > > convince someone else that what you're saying is true then, in an > > odd sort of referential way, it must be true - if it can be believed > > by someone else then it must be believable. > I don't know John. You need to appreciate that I was questioning > my sanity. I feel that this has been the case of many others as > well. I understand that. And if you told your story to a person who's sanity you didn't question and that person was even moderately swayed that probably something _did_ happen to you, then you would have (maybe just a little tiny bit) demonstrated to yourself that you weren't crazy. > It is a difficult thing to accept that others may think > that you are not playing with a full deck. I had to come to a > place where I had accepted what had happened to and to accept > that unless also experienced by another, there was simply no way > they could understand where I was coming from and to be O.K. > with that. I don't really think that other experiencers are too > different from me except that some of them haven't been as > successful at integrating the experience as I have. I AM not so > sure that my statement is fair moreover due to the fact that for > some of them the experiences have continued. I think there's a _huge_ difference between a person with ongoing experiences and one with apparently post-experience thinking only. Perhaps you've had the experience of talking to someone about your experiences and (somehow, some way) they became _totally_ convinced that they were _positively_ real. Did their 110% acceptance, genuine as it may be to them, seem hollow or shallow to you? > > There is a catch-22 here. If we establish elaborate > > electronic monitoring and that equipment shows _NO_ physical > > activity and _NO_ signs of tampering with the gear, yet the abductee > > reports that they were in fact abducted, we would have no choice > > except to assume that whatever happenned was non-physical. > That does not make the events any less real nor dangerous. > Man is after all, a multi-dimensional creature. The vast > majority of us have barely scratched the surface of our > realization of this. We have much to learn. And that's the problem. Traditional science would say that there's nothing wrong with the hardware, it performed exactly as it should, and it recorded no 3D events at all. Traditional psychology might then say that there's nothing wrong with the person either, but they _are_ suffering some trauma from what can _currently_ only be described as a nightmare. Maybe, in our example, we'd get lucky and there'd be something else, a physical marking or something, to complicate things. > > > You got me, buddy. Still, you have to admit that based upon > > > the numbers alone, there is something decidedly strange going > > > on. > > I've been convincved that something was going on for > decades... > As have I. Furthermore, I have come to suspect that persisting > in attempting to gain any understanding utilizing a traditional > approach is/will be futile. I can convince myself using non-traditional approaches but I couldn't convince anyone else without them. > > Who asked 'em? I'm not a member of any system of religion so > > I guess I get the short end of the stick? I'd be better served if > > the aliens replaced my cable TV company... > I feel that systems of religion have little to nothing > whatsoever to do with this equation John. Its a transitional problem. About 80% of the world's population _actively_ believes in/practices one or another religion. (That means they pray more than once a week, they attend some ceremony once a week, etc.) _Most_ religions offer a direct link to God. In most religions there's nothing between the person and God. Making the universe bigger by there being one or more inteligent alien species sort of puts stuff between humans and their God. We can expect that if we ever meet aliens, that is if they come here, that they're probably older and more technically advanced than us. They've probably either successfully dealt with or made lots of progress dealing with their social and religious problems. It would be interesting to see how they did that but it would also be threatening to some folks here. I personally don't have a problem with any of that but I suspect that many folks would. I also think it'll get worked out over time. > > I think most people go through periods when they question what > > they believe and period when they want a set of beliefs that > > actually work for them. I don't think that now is fundamentally > > different from any other period of time except that things happen > > much faster in this time period. > We are discussing something that greatly has to do with > spirituality or the lack thereof John, that is responsibility. > As far as the speed with which as well as the frequency of > things happening, well that is indirectly related to > spirituality as well. Today people are constantly complaining > that things (events, problems to solve, LIFE) are being thrown > at them with never before experienced frequency, speed and > intensity. When asked why, I attempt to explain it, but the > person usually expresses denial. <chuckle> > They then go their way doing the same things over and over > expecting different results, but receiving the same ... still > searching for the causation. I think its hard to be very responsible in life when we're not much in control of it or what happens around us. > A bunch I'd wager. And I needn't remind you John, Fear usually > breeds violence. Sure does. > > Those changes happen across generations. As one generation > > moves out or prominence another one moves in. It takes time. > What if time is not a commodity that we can any longer enjoy in > these regards? Well, then we're screwed. Probably the single most common thread that runs through human society, politics, economics, and even religion is reaction instead of action (or pro-action). We wait for something to happen then we react to it instead of determining that something is going to happen and act on it. I don't think anything is going to change that in the near term. > > It occurred to me when I was writing that that in those areas > > where we are _already_ using electronic monitoring of pre-release > > convicts the costs would be essentially zero. The equipment is > > already in place as are the people to do the monitoring. > Then it should be utilized. Yes, it should. It all starts with a police report. > > How do we objectively prove that things are vibrating at a > > higher frequency, how do we prove that this affects human thinking? > That is two questions. As to the first, I suspect that our > physical instrumentation may be at or near their limitations of > possibility. However, we can catalog the effects upon measurable > phenomena of forces of higher frequency. Kirlian photography and > newer, related technologies are an example of this. Of course, > there have been other suggested explanations tendered for the > phenomena observed in Kirlian photography, but no conclusive > proof that I know of. > Secondly, it affects awareness more than the thinking process. > It serves to distort. You could very well be right about our instrumentation's ability to observe. That's always been a problem in science. > In any event, the concepts I AM attempting to convey are > difficult to find useful words for. Whether is hard science or spirituality we're talking about things at or beyond the known edge, there's no textbook to check for the right words... > > I don't know why most abductionists ignore the paranormal > > aspects of the event. Until recently the paranormal aspects were > > _actively_ censored out of abduction accounts, even by MUFON. > I will state that I feel with every fibre of my being that this > is the aspect that is the key. > That this aspect of nearly every case is all but ignored by > nearly every researcher that I know of, is doing themselves and > more importantly the rest of us, a great disservice. If it is > there, then it is of significance. I think the paranormal aspect is more important than the other details. > I think that many have already made up their mind that this > phenomena comes to us from across the galaxy, John. I think they've done that too. > I think that > they fear that if the incidence of paranormal phenomena is > recognized, then abduction incidents in general will be declared > non-physical. Frankly even if they were, I fail to understand > the significance of that. The phenomena is still occurring and > leaving circumstantial physical evidence. Put another way, the > phenomena is occurring and may be partially of a non-physical > nature or para-physical nature leaving physical effects in some > cases. In any case, something is happening and it may well be > very dangerous. People don't like to admit they took a wrong turn especially if they'd been on that wrong turn road a long time. There clearly is a consensus-likde decision among most that this is a 3D, aliens in spaceships, deal and they exclude the paranormal (or sometimes explain it away with science fiction). We should also bear in mind that the abductionists are new to the scene and invented their own 'ology.' Paranormalists were here before them. If the abductionists accepted the paranormal aspects then they'd have to compete directly with the paranormalists (who, by the way, began using electronic monitoring _years__ ago)... > > I don't know if that's _actually_ true but its what the > > abductionists are saying. > In many cases yes. There also seems to be some suspicion that it > happens to a greater percentage of military people and/or their > dependents. I recently heard this mentioned. Do you know what this suspicion is based on? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:58:30 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:00:40 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' I've been (strangly) silent on this issue. I'm gonna have to side with Greg Sandow on the use of the words "self-proclaimed" and "self-claimed" as critical, at least in mass communications. I also think that the majority of the population view it has a negative phrase. I disagree with Greg on the issue that an abductee refers to someone who beleives they have been abducted but we have no evidence of the abduction. There are far to many who do not hold this view. I think John Powell has the right of it when he attempts to clarify the lack of evidence for the abduction with a phrase like "self-claimed." A better word, in my opinion, is alleged. I disagree with anyone who uses the terminology "alien abduction victim" or refers to someone as a "victim" of "alien abduction" in any way. In the same way that "self-proclaimed" denotes a critical attack, victim indicates an acceptance that the exerience is real and occured. I once heard the phrase "abduction syndrom" and one could "suffer" from this syndrome. I don't even like that, it makes the assumption that the the abduction is a reality. Personally I think the word "claim" and its various forms. Michael -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 'The Film' - A Correction From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:08:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:02:16 -0500 Subject: 'The Film' - A Correction This is Bob Shell's reply to my assertion that chemical composition of Kodak film is proprietary information. I still stand by my statement. I think Kodak's refusal to confirm the chemical analysis from Professor Malanga in Italy is proof that they will not release this information. The person in charge of the chemical testing has said that they will not confirm testing from anywhere else. Why should they? Would Coca-Cola confirm their ingredients? I don't think so. IF there is film and it is Kodak film, it only stands to reason that Kodak are the only people who can absolutely date it. This seems painfully obvious to me and if I there is a flaw in my thinking, please let me know. And now from Bob Shell, editor of Shutterbug magazine. --------------------- Forwarded message: From: 76750.2717@CompuServe.COM (BOB SHELL) To: RSchatte@aol.com (INTERNET:RSchatte@aol.com) Date: 96-12-19 11:25:42 EST Rebecca, >>>>>>According to the person who would have been in charge of performing the chemical analysis, ONLY KODAK can verify the chemical content of their films. Sure a bunch of labs could do a burn and get a breakdown on the ratios but the chemical make-up of KODAK film is proprietary information. <<<<<<< I have recently learned that this is not true. I have spoken with the chief chemical engineer at one of Kodak's competition and one of his colleagues, and they say they have a computer data base of acetate information going back to the 1920s including all brands. They created this by buying batches of competitors' products and analyzing them. They have told me the test is both simple and inexpensive and only requires a piece of film the size of a "pin head". They have offered to test the film for me if their management give the go ahead. My formal request is going through channels at the moment. I had planned not to discuss this until it was a fait accompli, but all of these sudden attacks on me have made me decide to go public on this. As far as Kodak is concerned, I do not think they have been dealing with me in good faith. They constantly changed their demands, and when Professor Malanga pinned down the acetate type they refused to provide production dates for those acetate types. Not only that, but Kodak's Tony Amato has repeatedly promised in both telephone ane e-mail exchanges to send me requested materials and documents, and to date has sent me absolutely nothing. Normally I can get anything I want from Kodak overnight just by asking. They certainly know who I am. At Kodak's press dinner in Cologne in September, they seated me next to one of their three CEOs. None of this is confidential. Share as you wish. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Dec 96 14:28:22 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:01:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance To John Powell: John, <<Well, its been over a year since I saw the Santilli film but I was pretty sure there's a short part showing a guy on the other side of the window wearing a military uniform. >> Are you sure the one you saw was the Santilli footage? There have been some "recreations" floated around, and one of them does show a sequence with a man in uniform in the window with the doctor. Still anything in it would be irrelevant because it's not part of the Santilli footage. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 19:20:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:03:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Regarding... >From: Michael Hesemann <100660.3672@compuserve.com> >Resent-From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance >Date: 18 Dec 96 20:34:28 EST >Dear Phil, >I never told James Easton that I received a penny from Ray, nor did I > claim you got anything. Philip, I wish Michael and yourself would pay more attention to what I actually said. It was a close, mutual, colleague of Hesemann and yourself who claimed he was told this personally by Hesemann. This is a copy of my reply to Hesemann: Michael, Firstly, A statement from Rebecca Schatte which I can pass on: I understand that there is some confusion as to who claimed what concerning Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle having been paid a sum of $10,000. by Ray Santilli for their work on the autopsy footage. For the record, I would like to state that I was told that Michael and Philip were each paid $10,000 for their work. I was told this on Saturday April 13, 1996. I have no idea if it is true or not but I do know the person who made the claim is someone who is close to and respected by both Philip and Michael. This person was completely serious when he told me this (or else the claimant is a damn good actor) and for the life of me I can not understand why this person would make this up. I would love to reveal the name but I will not. I'm sure that the claimant is aware of the situation and if that person would like to speak up, this would probably be a good time. [End] As you can see, I wasn't the only person who heard the story, but I knew that in the first place. Which will hopefully help you to realise that I had, of course, told you nothing less than the true facts. Why would someone who is such a close colleague of Philip and yourself, make up such a claim? They haven't confirmed they did make this story up and as it has resulted in such hysteria, I think they really now have to either admit that they did, or stick by the claim that you personally confirmed the payment of $10,000. If for no other reason than, by stating this story is a fabrication, you have effectively publicly branded this close colleague of Philip and yourself as untruthful, and worse. This is not so good, that person has been the source of information during the last eighteen months or so which has been taken on trust by many people. I do hope this isn't going to drag out until we get an explanation from your close colleague. I'm sure we all have better things to do. [End] You must know who that mutual close colleague is, that neither Rebecca or myself want to name. Perhaps you could exert some influence for an explanation and help put this all to rest. James. Internet; 100626.2242@compuserve.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: 100626.2242 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 05:21:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:06:16 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Quick follow up to previous about number of publications (I missed the last paragraph). re Randle. " Kevin, would you care to match the amount of money I have earned as a nuclear physicst doing consulting work in industry over the past 25 years? How about just since l980? I take it your psychic powers have told you what I earned doing what from whom just as they told you what Ike was told about Roswell?? Phil Klass tried this one and lost. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Merry Christmas From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 20 Dec 96 00:15:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:07:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Merry Christmas updates # globalserve.net@242:7000/1 meinte am 19.12.96 zum Thema "UFO UpDate: Merry Christmas": u>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> u>Subject: UFO UpDate: Merry Christmas u> u>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> u>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> u>Subject: Merry Christmas u>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 03:18:59 GMT u> u>Dear Colleagues, u> u>I would like to take this opportunity to wish you a very Merry u>Christamas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year. u> u>All the very best, u> u> u>Philip Mantle. Despite all the differences in the approach to the subject of the reality of non-human intelligence and despite all the deliberately arranged and ill-fated involvements and developments of the past -- Shouldn't we all who are intensively working on the same item -- to find out what kind of truth is out there -- And what kind of agencies in the human military-industrial-complex are keeping away the human nation from the perception of this larger reality of the existence of non-human intelligence -- This one and maybe very first time reach out our hand as a sign that we are able to overcome personal dislike for someone to reach the higher goal -- Withstand the total cover-up of a part of our cosmic reality following the words: *"United we stand - devided we fall"* Shouldn't we make this email the longest ever written, quoted, re- quoted and re-posted email in the history of UFO-newsgroups? These are the reasons why why I add my name under the Christmas greetings above: All the very best Joachim Koch, Berlin, Germany, December 19th, 1996 FIDO: 2:2410/704.20 IN: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de Search for other documents from or mentioning: koch | globalserve.net |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 04:44:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:04:00 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Kevin: Now you are being ridiculous. I said that you had not referenced 29 of 30 papers I had published about Roswell/MJ-12 in your long list in " The Truth about UCR". That is a true statement.You said they were self published.That is a false statement. I noted that there were 3 other papers that were indeed self published.Meaning I wrote them and had them printed, and distributed them and nobody else was involved.The profit has been as good as though I had been paid to write them. Now you are defining self published as in a journal with a circulation over 5000.Are you suggesting that all the other referenced papers met that criteria?? Ex post facto statement. Did I say professional?No. You did.And I didn't say published in any particular size journal. After all none of the MJ 12 papers referenced by ED Stewart fill that bill, do they? I suspect that my long unreferenced by Ed paper in a book edited by Tim Good does though.. and so does TOP SECRET/MAJIC. I clearly said papers related to Roswell/MJ-12. The "more than 70 papers" cover many other aspects of UFOs.Yes, of course Fate isn't the ultimate nor Saga. Nor UFO Universe,(you have published there, too) but it has a larger circulation than 5000 as do both UFO Magazines.. That doesn't include nuclear papers in Atlantic Advocate ,Ascent, Nickel, Transactions of the American Nuclear Society, Science, etc. I am not trying to compete with you as a writer. Not many can. As you know I have often mentioned in awe your more than 77 books of fiction. An impressive mumber indeed. Why not just say you made a mistake or should have put <grin> after the phrase. If you really want a list. I will send one. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Wormwood? From: starborn@sirius.com (Stella Marie Harder) Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:53:30 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:08:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? -> SearchNet's iufo Mailing List Hi! I'm a grad student in seminary doing a special reading course on ufos with Ted Peters, professor of Systematic Theology at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary here at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California. Ted is also a MUFON consultant in theology, and was a MUFON field investigator. He has been Acting Director of the Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences (www.ctns.org), and has written the book "UFOs---God's Chariots?: Flying Saucers in Politics, Science and Religion." His article, "Exo-Theology: Speculations on Extraterrestrial Life" is in the book "The Gods Have Landed: New Religions from Other Worlds" (SUNY), a series of articles from academics studying new religious movements, one I highly recommend. I forwarded to Ted the letter allegedly from the priest who contacted art bell, and he said he was going to check with his colleagues at the Vatican Observatory. Here is their reply. >From: TPeters2ct@aol.com >Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:04:18 -0500 >To: starborn@sirius.com >Subject: Fwd: Hale-Bopp Hoax >X-UIDL: 19961218.210249 >Status: U > >Dear Stella: > I've contacted Vatican Observatory colleagues both in Italy and Arizona. >Here's what I've learned. No surprise, huh. > Ted > >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >From: wstoeger@as.arizona.edu (Bill Stoeger) >To: TPeters2ct@AOL.com >Date: 96-12-18 17:56:03 EST > > >Dear Ted, > >Thanks for your message. We've gotten a few other inquiries about this. I >did some checking, and I'm afraid my information is that it is a hoax, or >rather a rumor that has no foundation. I have no idea who started it -- so >it well could be an "urban legend." At any rate it has nothing to do with >astronomy, and I have some information indicating that neither the Pope nor >people like Cardinal Ratzinger believe there is anything of theological >significance in the whatever some people saw. It has been linked by some >to the "third secret" of the apparitions of the Virgin Mary at Fatima. I >would not be surprised if letters went the Vatican concerning it -- but what >I am saying is that they do not believe the supposed phenomenon to be >in any way significant. > >Have a very blessed and merry Christmas, Ted, along with all your family. >And every wonderful thing in the New Year!! > >Bill > > Search for other documents from or mentioning: starborn | tpeters2ct |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 IUFO: (Fwd) NRO Satellite Launch From: "Steve Wingate" <swingate@crl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:19:41 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:08:00 -0500 Subject: IUFO: (Fwd) NRO Satellite Launch -> SearchNet's iufo Mailing List ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: rlawler@dfw.net (Rick Lawler) Subject: SNETNEWS: NRO Satellite Launch To: snetnews@world.std.com Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:34:57 -0600 (CST) Reply-to: snetnews@world.std.com U.S. lifts veil on spy satellite launch, 12/18/96 WASHINGTON (Reuter) - A supersecretive Pentagon arm Wednesday lifted the veil for the first time on the scheduled launch of a U.S. spy satellite in what it called a major step toward greater openness. But the payload and its mission remain classified. The National Reconnaissance Office, whose own very existence was a secret until 1992, said it would no longer seek to shield the fact of a launch because doing so was costly and unnecessary for U.S. national security. The maiden announced launch of a U.S. spy satellite was to take place Friday from Vandenberg Air Force Base, 55 miles north of Santa Barbara, California, the NRO said. It said the launch vehicle was a Titan IV, the largest unmanned booster in the U.S. space launch inventory. The launch period opens at 11:30 A.M. EST and extends until 1:00 P.M. EST. ``This event is the first time the U.S. government has acknowledged, in advance, the launch of a reconnaissance satellite,'' the NRO said in a statement. ``We've been doing this for 35 years,'' added Katherine Schneider, an NRO spokeswoman. She said it was tough to keep secret a satellite ``that's sitting on top of a very large launch vehicle.'' ``What we want to protect is the technology,'' she said, acknowledging that the fact that the NRO and the Air Force were launching spy satellites from Vandenberg and Cape Canaveral Air Station, Florida, was well known to anyone interested. Continuing to try to keep it a secret ``was costing us money and it was costing us a lot of frustration in a new and more open environment,'' Schneider said. But she said the NRO would not disclose for now the mission of the satellite being launched Friday nor declassify details of the ``well over 300'' such launches since 1959, when so-called Corona satellites gave the United States its fist eyes in space. Other than Corona satellites, the last of which was launched from Vandenberg on May 25, 1972, all NRO launches remain classified. John Pike, who heads the Space Policy Project at the Federation of American Scientists, a policy research group based in Washington, said the new policy inaugurated Wednesday would save taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars per launch in wasted security costs. Pike said the money was wasted because experts like he could always figure out what was being launched, partly by looking at launch windows. He estimated that the NRO had spent many tens of billions on security in its 35-year existence. He said Friday's payload was no doubt an Advanced Keyhole optical imaging intelligence satellite of a type that lets U.S. photo-interpreters monitor, within minutes, such things as compliance with arms control agreements, Iraqi troop movements and the status of North Korean nuclear weapons facilities. Disclosing the fact of the launch was long overdue, added Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists' Project on government secrecy. ``It was in any case a non-secret since launches like this cannot be concealed from anybody who is interested in following them. So its a step toward sanity,'' Aftergood said. end Anomalous Images and UFO Files http://www.linex.com/ufo Search for other documents from or mentioning: swingate | rlawler |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Abductee 'Brainwashing'? From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:20:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:05:20 -0500 Subject: Abductee 'Brainwashing'? ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 03:02:41 -0500 (EST) From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Subject: Abductee Brainwashing? Anonimously Submitted The Research and Writings of Donna Higbee ABDUCTEE BRAINWASHING? by Donna Higbee, CHT Attitudes appear to be changing as many abductees who have been traumatized, physically abused and violated are now saying that their abductors have only spiritual and/or benevolent motives behind their actions. This growing new trend is a concern to a number of researchers and healthcare professionals who work with abductees. Many abductees who once reported tremendous fear of being taken repeatedly from their bedrooms and cars by non-human entities are now reporting being told by these entities that it was for their own good; that their fear was unwarranted and was simply a product of the abductee's lack of understanding. In many cases, abductees who accept this explanation are also led to believe that technological advancement equals spiritual advancement. There is no logical reasoning for this, as spiritual advancement may run parallel to technological advancement, the two may not proceed along together at the same pace, or they may not run along together at all. We cannot assume that where we find one we will find the other. I believe the reasoning put forth by these abductees to justify abduction is faulty. I am a hypnotherapist in Santa Barbara, California, working with abductees. I became personally involved in this situation when I watched two members of our support group change their stories from one meeting to the next. These were abductees who had been terrorized and abused for years and had only hatred for their abductors. Suddenly, their stories changed and they both, independently of each other, began saying that recently they were shown that everything that had been done to them was for their own good and facilitated their spiritual growth. With regards to this, Dr. Karla Turner, in a paper she presented to the MUFON 1994 International UFO Symposium, said the following: "It is odd, however, that such growth seems to come to abductees only after they are aware of their experiences. If indeed this growth is produced by the aliens, then it should have been there long before the abductees were conscious of their encounters, since in almost every reported case there is evidence of alien involvement since early childhood. The psychic increase and growth of perceptive abilities indicate a different genesis -- an internal evolution of consciousness -- stemming from our need to know what is and has been done to us and what we can do to meet the situation in a more empowered state. Survivors of great catastrophes such as hurricanes, earthquakes, and war may be crushed by the impact of these events ... or they may find a new resilience, rising to the occasion and reacting with abilities they didn't know they possessed. Given the vast intrusive activities of the abduction scenario, our species may well feel such a threat or stress that a mutational or evolutionary leap is occurring today...." If this is indeed the case, then any spiritual growth is the abductee's own doing at a deep level of consciousness and is not coming from an abducting entity. There can be a number of reasons why an abductee changes his mind. One that has been put forth a number of times is what is termed the Stockholm Syndrome, AKA the Hostage Syndrome, where a person who has been kidnapped or captured eventually comes to sympathize with and even grow fond of his captors. With some abductees, I believe that this may be occurring. However, I think we are seeing something else happening with this attitude change that goes beyond the easy answer of the Stockholm Syndrome. Because I was disturbed by the attitude change of the abductees I knew and of many others I had been hearing about, I wrote a letter in February to a group of abductees who were reachable through computer online services. I also posted my letter to a number of bulletin boards on the Internet and asked that abductees please respond with their thoughts and feelings about the situation. I'd like to mention a few of the points I made in my letter and then share with all of you some of the responses I received from people. In my letter, I stated that by the very meaning of the word, abduction implies being taken against one's will with no say in the matter. It can include experiencing painful physical procedures, being lied to and given screen memories, being mentally terrorized, and being paralyzed, manipulated and controlled. There is nothing spiritual about any of these things and yet the abductors say they are highly advanced spiritual beings. It is very interesting that these non-human entities seem to have learned two ways to control human beings - through fear and through acceptance. Obviously we are seeing some abductees who are still being controlled and manipulated through fear, but we are also seeing abductees being controlled and manipulated through their acceptance of these entities as spiritual beings. By accepting these beings as highly spiritual, the abductee gives up seeking to end his abduction experiences and instead starts to welcome them. Instead of abductees coming into a sense of their own power as spiritual beings who do not need to give up their free will to anyone, what we are now seeing is a group of submissive, controlled abductees who are passively letting the abductors do as they want with them in the name of spiritual progress. In my opinion, anything that keeps a person from learning the truth and from taking responsibility for his own growth and awakening as a spiritual being is completely unspiritual. Anything that allows the person his free will, responsibility for his own spiritual progress and aids in the process of discovering his true unbounded spiritual nature is truly spiritual. I don't think it is difficult to see into which category the abductors fall. I believe that we have spiritual entities in our midst, beings who are assisting humans with their evolution, but I'm quite sure that these spiritual beings are not the same as those who are responsible for the abductions. In my letter I also stated that the entire hybrid scenario could be a fantastic cover for an agenda that is completely different than we are being shown. As Dr. Karla Turner has stated in radio interviews, it is almost as though abductees are shown the same movies, as a cover for other motives completely unknown to us, or possibly they are using the hybrid scenario to study our emotions. Things should not be taken at face value when we know we are dealing with entities who can implant thoughts into our heads, manipulate our minds with screen memories and virtual reality scenes, and who pass themselves off as wonderful spiritual beings. We presently have no way to know the truth about what is really happening. I'd like to quote part of a letter I received from an abductee, Irene Rea in Oregon. She writes, "One of the most frightening aspects of this phenomenon is the abductor's ability to manipulate the abductee's perceptions. I'm frightened by the current trend that many abductees seem to be going through in assigning the abductors benign motives in the spiritual growth of the abductees and planetary healing. In my experience, the abductors have manipulated my reality over and over. In one very telling instance, my partner and I were abducted together. He thought he was being wooed by a gorgeous and astoundingly remarkable woman. My view of his experience was that he was on a table, strapped to medical gear, and staring into the eyes of a typical "gray." I find it even more abusive to be told by my fellow abductees that the reason I'm experiencing these negative experiences is because I'm somehow spiritually unadvanced. As a two-decade veteran of the New Age, I have heard this kind of spiritual elitism from the devout followers of alleged spiritual leaders who were, in fact, promoting their own agendas of power and greed." Another letter from an abductee, Dana Buyers of Los Angeles, California: "We are nothing more to these beings than a crop to be harvested. They terrorized me, hurt me and nearly ruined my health. An abuser is an abuser. I don't care what planet they come from or how intelligent they claim to be. So when I get the impulse from them to start thinking that they aren't so bad after all and are just pursuing some noble purpose that we can't understand, I show them in my mind all that they have done to me and I say "get real," there is no way that I'm ever going to change my mind. These aliens are dangerous, don't ever believe them." And a letter from abductee Amy Hebert of Carrollton, Texas: "As a facilitator of an abductee support group, I have observed abductees' reactions change from deep contempt and anger toward their abductors to acceptance and complete surrender. Some abductees express years and years of anger and confusion, then suddenly announce they don't think the aliens are really so bad after all and may actually represent some type of spiritual experience. These reactions seem quite surprising, considering the levels of anger and humiliation the abductee expressed only a week before. Could these new feelings be due to the resolution of the individual's long-term hatred and resentment toward the abductors? Or, could this be yet another example of alien manipulation? According to Dr. Karla Turner, aliens have been known to lie to abductees for their own purposes and all abductions take place in an alien-controlled environment. These alien-human hate-love relationships seem to reflect alien control more than any spiritually fulfilling promise for humankind. After all, kidnapping and forcing someone to be a guinea pig can hardly be considered spiritual." I want to give one last letter I received from a man who is in training as a body-centered psychotherapist, Mark Richards of Boston, Massachusetts. He writes, "It's of little doubt that the internal confusion and pain resulting from one or more abduction experiences results in some form of compensation. Just as 'screen memory' tends to re-shape the horrific experience into more palatable images, it's possible that this same re-shaping occurs at many other levels, notwithstanding the body's cellular memory. Given the infinite variety and creativity of the whole mind, how is it that hypnotic recollections of the victims, often including deeply felt sensory experiences, have such striking parallels? Could it be that a 'cult' of some type is forming and having influence upon the story? ... Culture and historical factors may strongly influence what comes forth. Here in our technological, educated and motive culture, when something doesn't make sense in our head, we switch to 'faith,' to a spirituality of some sort. Once this switch occurs, we have a 'cult,' and in the case of abductees as a group, a 'cult'-ure built around technological unknowns. Perhaps all semblance of reason is not lost, just put on hold for a while as the body (collective and individual) tries to make some sense out of stuff that cannot possibly find correlation. This trend among the abductee community has not been so named, perhaps out of the same denial which seems to be increasingly prevalent in the various stories .. stories that have begun to shift in character and substance. Now abduction is no longer a horrible violation but a necessary component of a great plan. Now the aliens who are beaming into our bedrooms are no longer uninvited violators of the human story, but welcome harbingers of our 'salvation.' The parallels between various religious mythological systems and the growing abductee community are striking. They spring from the same set of unknowns, growing in the fertile ground of fear and imagination, a set of ideas concerning the history, purpose and future of the human race." With all the confusion that surrounds the abduction phenomenon and all the various ways of looking at the phenomenon itself, it is impossible for anyone to say with certainty that they know what is true. People need to analyze why they believe what they believe and not allow themselves to accept a belief just because it fits nicely into their world picture. I know that it takes strength and courage to put aside a glowing, positive picture and admit that you really just don't know for sure. But the only way we are going to come up with any answers is if people question what they are being told and shown. Don't accept someone else's explanations (whether it be that of another abductee, a channeled source, or a non-human entity). Use your own analytical thinking and judgment and realize that we just don't have the answers yet. I welcome comments and thoughts regarding the above article. I can be reached at the following address: Post Office Box 6404 Santa Barbara, California 93160, USA I can also be reached by email through America Online. My address is: Goodhigbee@aol.com c1995 Donna Higbee | Unusual Research Main Page | Donna Higbee Index Page | ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: A Fake 'Whitley Strieber'..... From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:59:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:59:04 -0500 Subject: Re: A Fake 'Whitley Strieber'..... Subject: A Fake 'Whitley Strieber'..... Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 11:55:11 -0600 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Whitley Strieber said; >Most recently, a false "Whitley Strieber" post has apologized for >causing discomfort to the Japanese National Observatory and stated >that I have changed my position on the object that has been photographed >near the Hale-Bopp comet. This post is a lie, put simply. Absolute lie if you ask me. Not only is the object in that photo not a star, it is in the exact trajectory as the comet. Proven fact. (RL504201.jpg) What I would like to know is why the Japanese are not forthcoming with the truth and many photos from that night for it is also fact that they make many more than one. Elsewise, when you hear from both Russell Sipe and Jose Alonso that they cannot explain the difference between Chuck Shramek's and the Jose Alonso photo of 11/14... "Thank you for your interest in our Hale-Bopp image for nov 14. I have looked at your image analysis and I agree with it. But I have no clear explanation as to why one star in the star pattern is displayed with respect the other images." -Jose Alonso - "I'm fairly confident based on your overlays (3overlay.gif) that the Alonso photo was taken before 5pm EST. The slightly different position of SAO141894 in the Alonso image is interesting. I suspect when the analysis is completed the answer could involve an off axis effect wherein the film or chip was not perfectly perpendicular to the light path. This effect would seem to advance the comet slightly further along its path than it should. However, this is just a speculation on my part and I will be interested in hearing the results." - Russell Sipe - ...then you may draw with a reasonable degree of certainty that the "SLO" 'object' is in fact not a star but something else. ~Pat~ BTW - any photos I include are public domain. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Carl Sagan From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 09:13:52 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:53:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan Carl Sagan's death ends a career which, while otherwise superior in its achievements, was sullied by his persistence in his latter years in debunking and ridiculing the abundant evidence for extraterrestrial life and its visitation to Earth. It is not credible to sduppose that Dr. Sagan did not know better. It is a pity that he allowed himself to be used by the UFO Cover-Up. At least now he knows better. - Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Carl Sagan From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 11:44:33 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:54:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >Born in New York City in 1934, Sagan was a noted astronomer >whose lifelong passion was searching for intelligent life in the >cosmos. :( He left us with a ship of the imagination. With this ship we explore the possibilities of a certain future. He was a Johnny Appleseed spreading the seeds of thoughts through out the world and the fruits of those orchards are sweet to the endeavors of hope for Man Eternal in the Universe. I see him in the Heavens passing by to take an occasional apple from one of his trees and taste the nectar of God. Goodby, Carl... and hello, Carl... I know you are out there now where the truth is at last found.. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Alien Humour From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:58:33 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:51:43 -0500 Subject: Alien Humour Many of you have seen these before, but after my son and I saw Mars Attack the other day, I figured some of the newbies might get a kick out of these, heh heh. Sure, it seems easy being a space alien. You've got your x-ray vision, your late model space ships and media coverage galore. But, as usual with most glamour jobs, there's a lot of nitty gritty work the public doesn't get to see. The job can become routine, and even a bit tedious, as we learned when we stumbled upon this intriguing page from... A SPACE ALIENS DATE BOOK ************************************************************************* 8:15 A.M. Leave asteroid for work. | | 9:00 A.M. Hover over cornfield on outskirts of small midwestern town. | | 9:30 A.M. Land in backyard where housewife is hanging laundry. | Silence barking dog with penetrating gaze. | | 10:00 A.M. Stun housewife with laser-gun or energy pulsating finger- | tips. Levitate her body just long enough to be glimpsed by | a passing motorist. Materialize the body inside spaceship. | Remove internal organs; weigh, label and categorize. Return | most, if not all, to the body. Erase all traces of surgery. | Rematerialize housewife in backyard. Turn back time two hours| Bid enigmatic goodbye. Leave. | | 1:00 P.M. Visit once prestigious astronomer who everyone thinks has | gone mad. Deliver pep talk. Leave him fist-sized fragments | of an unidentifiable element. | | 2:15 P.M. Drop by Whitley Strieber's house, pick up royalty check from | best seller, Communion. | | 3:00 P.M. Hover over southwestern desert. | | 3:30 P.M. Offer psychotic drifter a lift. | | 4:30 P.M. Pose for cover of "Weekly World News" with President Clinton.| Discuss ozone depletion, space travel, future political | endorsements. | | 6:30 P.M. Back at the asteroid. Introduce psychotic drifter to other | aliens. Listen to Windham Hill. | | 9:00 P.M. Dinner. Eat drifter. | | 10:00 P.M. Wash antennae, brush eyeballs, peel off outer layer of skin. | Beam cryptic message to NASA satelite. Lights out. |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Carl Sagan From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:40:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:52:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan Bon Voyage Carl. You're finally going to see the light. Jerry Washington (KENTUCKY/MUFON)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 BWW Media Alert 961220 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:46:02 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:55:08 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 961220 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) December 20, 1996 "Bufo, the Weird-Knowing Reindeer" Happy Holidays! You will find a gift attached to this issue: the letter A from TAP. You should be able to open it fairly easily: it'll be in text form, and most folks have been able to get to it in the past. It is not completely updated: like Disneyland, TAP is never finished. If you have questions, ask me and I'll see what I can do. Also, please send me additions or comments. You know, this is probably going to be really clever for part-way, then I'm going to run out of time (you know how it goes). Just warnin' ya... Brief note on fictional stuff: saw MARS ATTACKS! I never want to spoil movies for anybody, but let's say it's obvious that people didn't argue with director Tim Burton much. My predicted domestic gross: 35 to 40 million. MICHAEL with John Travolta as an angel opens this week: I'm looking forward to seeing it. It may put a "what if" reality spin on it in some senses like the way BEDAZZLED did (which I think is the most convincing portrayal of Satan we've had...one could believe that a person could be tempted). SHOWTIME is running MAGIC IN THE WATER several times this week (5:20 AM Pacific Saturday, 11:30 am Monday. It's pure fiction about a lake monster nicknamed Orky. The writers at least seemed to know the field, and there's a brief cameo by David Rasche as a member of an Orky abduction support group (er...you'll have to see it) who is in denial. It's particularly ironic because of his fairly recent portrayal of a bigfoot true believer. Oh, and those great interpreters of American culture, the three stooges, explain it all to us in FLYING SAUCER DAFFY on the Family Channel on Wednesday at 11:40 PM. Finally, don't miss SANTA CLAUS CONQUERS THE MARTIANS on USA at 3:00 AM on Thursday...unless you'd rather do =anything= else. Features a young Ann Jillian as the Big Red Guy goes up against Little Green Men. FLASH!!!! Tonight, Friday December 20th, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE QUEST: BIGFOOT. It's on at 8:00 and 11:00 PM, Pacific. Sometimes, I can't get these things a week ahead. Oh, well, I'm pushing for it from some folks. BOOKS CRAZY THERAPIES* WHAT ARE THEY? DO THEY WORK? (Jossey-Bass Publishing) by Margaret Thaler Singer , Janja Lalich $23.00 Takes a tour of unusual mental counseling, including alien abduction therapies, past life/future life, entity possession, etc. It is certainly not approving. I heard Margaret Singer on the Darien O'Toole show on KBGG in San Francisco, and it sounded interesting. I know it will be anathema to many of you, however, I think the general public may eat it up, so it's important to know what's being said. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: Peter Graves hosts. A woman sees her daughter to rescue her (the catch? The mother is blind); a diver is saved by a prescient warning about sharks in the water (maybe he could just hear the soundtrack of his life...THRUM thrum THRUM thrum THRUMTHRUMTHRUMTHRUMetc.) GORDON ELLIOTT (it may still be be repeating the show this weekend from last week on unexplained phenomena which includes: Jim Ditelossoa, Jack Kaster, Dannion Brinkley, and Tim Edwards) PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) Sorry for limited info this week. REPTILIAN REVENGE: a dead amateur herpetologist's pet snakes are trying to tell the town something; GHOSTLY VOICES, a poltergeist and a wealthy woman Saturday, December 21 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center talks about UFOs and the crash of TWA 800. There are some connections, certainly, both with that area and sightings in that area. For more on NUFORC, see http://nwlink.com/~ufocntr/. It's files of UFO sightings reported to the line are really quite remarkable.) 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: CABINET OF CURIOSITIES: includes moving rocks in Death Valley and the toad in the stone phenomenon...no, that's not when King Arthur had to pull a frog leg out of a rock to prove he was the rightful maitre d'...it's about rocks that are cracked open and toads are found inside that would therfore appear to be thousands of years old (sometimes they are alive). Please, no jokes about "stoned bufos": the only mind altering substances I take are ideas... 10:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL: SIGHTINGS no details available Sunday, December 22 2:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS 2:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND (see http://www.artbell.com for stations): no details available, so may be a re-run. 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: Near-Death Experiences 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL: ANCIENT PROPHECIES (Nostradamus, etc. on the millenium...repeated (not the millenium, the show) three hours later) Monday, December 23 LOCAL RADIO: UFO Desk, WBAI NY 99.5 FM, host Paul Williams and Michael Lindemann do a year end wrap-up on UFOs especially...if you're in the area, don't miss it, that should be a good one! If you're not, order a copy of the tape later from Paul at paulw@escape.com SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: a guy who says he's had two near-death experiences (can't you just see that the second time? The relatives, muttering, "not again", and the big, booming, James Earl Jones-type voice saying, "Look, shmuck, I said NOT YET!") (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES : no details available 9:00 PM, FOX, MIRACLES AND VISIONS Tuesday, December 24 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, OPRAH WINFREY: Near-death experiences SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Exceptionally Hairy People...we'll see how "fur" they can go (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stationsand playtimes in your area) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES no details available 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: GIANTS OF EASTER ISLAND (no, that's not a football team) 10:00 PM, NBC, DATELINE NBC: miraculous healings, heaven, etc. Wednesday, December 25 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Nick Pope (no, this is not how George of the Jungle described John Paul II shaving), who was a British Ministry of Defence UFO guy...wrote the book, OPEN SKIES, CLOSED MINDS* (or vice versa...I'm running outta time here) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: GIANTS OF EASTER ISLAND 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES no details available 7:00 PM, A&E, ARE WE ALONE?: documentary on UFOs, alien encounters, etc. 8:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, MIRACLES AND ANGELS (this is going to be a big block of angel stuff, running three one hour programs and then repeating...sorry, I don't have time to say more...hey, this is a free service :) ) 11:00 PM, A&E, ARE WE ALONE? (see 7:00 pm) Thursday, December 26 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, ESSENTIALS; psychics (I think this may be a teen-oriented program) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES : no details available 10:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES: vampires Friday, December 27 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Timothy Leary's ashes into orbit, or "Pass On, Burn Up, Blast Off" (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIS, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#48): no details available 8:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES: a miraculous healing (gee, it's the week for that, huh?) 8:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS ): no details available This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *You can order the books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). Alternatively, you can mail your check or money order to: Greenleaf Publications P.O. Box 8152 Murfreesboro, TN 37133 U.S.A. Add $4 for the first item and $1 for each additional item for S&H in the U.S. My foreign correspondents should add $5 for the first one, $1.50 for each additional (plus $3 if shipped by air). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. -------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 NASA Administrator Dan Goldin on Passing of Carl From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:38:20 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:01:38 -0500 Subject: NASA Administrator Dan Goldin on Passing of Carl Brian Welch December 20, 1996 Headquarters, Washington, DC (Phone: 202/358-1600) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk RELEASE: 96-266 STATEMENT BY NASA ADMINISTRATOR DAN GOLDIN ON THE PASSING OF ASTRONOMER CARL SAGAN "All of us at NASA are saddened by the passing of Carl Sagan. For more than three decades, Dr. Sagan was an eloquent, passionate voice for the sciences that he so ably advanced. As much as any scientific figure of our time, Carl described for an entire generation -- the generation of the Space Age -- the true wonders of the Universe around us. His unbelievable ability to explain the complexities of space and space exploration inspired people to look up into the night sky in wonder. Through such efforts as the television series 'Cosmos' and his recent book, 'Pale Blue Dot,' Carl reached - - and touched --millions around the world. He was a pioneer of the idea that life could exist on Mars, years before NASA was able to uncover evidence of potential early life on the Red Planet, and he was an important voice in our Mars science programs for many years. He was an early champion of the idea that the two leading spacefaring powers, America and Russia, should work together in the exploration of space. He also was at the forefront of constructing humanity's first messages to the stars, which even now are hurtling out of our Solar System aboard the Pioneer and Voyager spacecraft. Carl himself likened the effort to the launching of a message in a bottle on the interstellar ocean. We will remember his vision, his eloquence, and his intellect, and we will miss him." -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 Backlash From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:00:27 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:00:51 -0500 Subject: Backlash I have been reading and reading about all of the thoughts, concerns, evidences and so on about the topic of UFOology. It leads me to wonder just what the .. is going on in the thought processes of most humans. Fact: there are people from all over the world who have only one thing in common, that they were abducted, that they had experiences that involved aliens, their craft, and their equipment. They all have the basically similar stories to tell. Fact: These same people are being ignored. For the past fifty years, there has been NO.. repeat NO change in anything! Those same experiencers have been investigated, poked and prodded by the best of humanity after the fact that they were poked and prodded by those aliens. So, where is the information for all of those tests and investigating? Who is blindly leading who? For the past fifty years, there have been the same incidents, same people, same resulting abduction scenario. Can you believe it? Just where does anyone who exhibits Post Abduction Trauma syndrome go to get help for the host of problems and other difficulties that they endure after the fact? Can they go to the police? To the Lawyers? To the medical professionals? To the local witchdoctor? Well, the best route so far has shown that the local Witch Doctor is your best source of help and understanding of the trauma that besets any abductee! I hate being human and lost in a sea of other ignorant humans! Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 02/04 - 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 02:58:08 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:57:05 -0500 Subject: 02/04 - 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations but also names of localities of the UFO incidents in its main sample of 59 cases. In this Lakenheath case, deletion of locality names creates much confusion for the reader, since three distinct RAF stations figure in,the incident and since the discharged non-commissioned officer from whom they received first word of this UFO episode confused the names of two of those stations in his own account that appears in the Condon Report. That, plus other reportorial deficiencies in the presentation of the Lakenheath case in the Condon Report, will almost certainly have concealed its real significance from most readers of the Report. Unfortunately, the basic Bluebook file is itself about as confusing as most Bluebook files on UFO cases. I shall attempt to mitigate as many of those difficulties as I can in the following, by putting the account into better over-all order than one finds in the Condon Report treatment. 2. General Circumstances: The entire episode extended from about 2130Z, August 13, to 0330Z, August 14, 1956; thus this is a nighttime case. The events occurred in east-central England, chiefly in Suffolk. The initial reports centered around Bentwaters RAF Station, located about six miles east of Ipswich, near the coast, while much of the subsequent action centers around Lakenheath RAF Station, located some 20 miles northeast of Cambridge. Sculthorpe RAF Station also figures in the account, but only to a minor extent; it is near Fakenham, in the vicinity of The Wash. GCA (Ground Controlled Approach) radars at two of those three stations were involved in the ground-radar sightings, as was an RTCC (Radar Traffic Control Center) radar unit at Lakenheath. The USAF non-com who wrote to the Colorado Project about this incident was a Watch Supervisor on duty at the Lakenheath RTCC unit that night. His detailed account is reproduced in the Condon Report (pp. 248-251). The Report comments on "the remarkable accuracy of the account of the witness as given in (his reproduced letter), which was apparently written from memory 12 years after the incident." I would concur, but would note that, had the Colorado Project only investigated more such striking cases of past years, it would have found many other witnesses in UFO cases whose vivid recollections often match surprising well checkable contemporary accounts. My experience thereon has been that, in multiple- witness cases where one can evaluate consistency of recollections, the more unusual and inexplicable the original UFO episode, the more it impressed upon the several witnesses' memories a meaningful and still-useful pattern of relevant recollections. Doubtless, another important factor operates: the UFO incidents that are the most striking and most puzzling probably have been discussed by the key witnesses enough times that their recollections have been thereby reinforced in a useful way. The only map given in the Condon Report is based on a sketch-map made by the non-com who alerted them to the case. It is misleading, for Sculthorpe is shown 50 miles east of Lakenheath, whereas it actually lies 30 miles north- northeast. The map does not show Bentwaters at all; it is actually some 40 miles east-southeast of Lakenheath. Even as basic items as those locations do not appear to have been ascertained by those who prepared the discussion of this case in the Condon Report, which is most unfortunate, yet not atypical. That this incident was subsequently discussed by many Lakenheath personnel was indicated to me by a chance event. In the course of my investigations of another radar UFO case from the Condon Report, that of 9/11/67 at Kincheloe AFB, I found that the radar operator involved therein had previously been stationed with the USAF detachment at Lakenheath and knew of the events at second-hand because they were still being discussed there by radar personnel when he arrived many months later. 3. Initial Events at Bentwaters, 2130Z to 2200Z; One of the many unsatisfactory aspects of the Condon Report is its frequent failure to put before the reader a complete account of the UFO cases it purports to analyze scientifically. In the present instance, the Report omits all details of three quite significant radar-sightings made by Bentwaters GCA personnel prior to their alerting the Lakenheath GCA and RTCC groups at 2255 LST. This omission is certainly not because of correspondingly slight mention in the original Bluebook case-file; rather, the Bentwaters sightings actually receive more Bluebook attention than the subsequent Lakenheath events. Hence, I do not see how such omissions in the Condon Report can be justified. a) _First radar siqhting, 2130Z._ Bentwaters GCA operator, A/2c ______ (I shall use a blank to indicate the names razor-bladed out of my copies of the case-file prior to release of the file items to me), reported picking up a target 25-30 miles ESE, which moved at very high speed on constant 295 deg. heading across his scope until he lost it 15-20 miles to the NW of Bentwaters. In the Bluebook file, A/2c _____ is reported as describing it as a strong radar echo, comparable to that of a typical aircraft, until it weakened near the end of its path across his scope. He is quoted as estimating a speed of the order of 4000 mph, but two other cited quantities suggest even higher speeds. A transit time of 30 seconds is given, and if one combines that with the reported range of distance traversed, 40-50 miles, a speed of about 5000- 6000 mph results. Finally, A/2c _____ stated that it covered about 5-6 miles per sweep of the AN/MPN-llA GCA radar he was using. The sweep-period for that set is given as 2 seconds (30 rpm), so this yields an even higher speed- estimate of about 9000 mph. (Internal discrepancies of this sort are quite typical of Bluebook case-files, I regret to say. My study of many such files during the past three years leaves me no conclusion but that Bluebook work has never represented high-caliber scientific work, but rather has operated as a perfunctory bookkeeping and filing operation during most of its life. Of the three speed figures just mentioned, the latter derives from the type of observation most likely to be reasonably accurate, in my opinion. The displacement of a series of successive radar blips on a surveillance radar such as the MPN-11A, can be estimated to perhaps a mile or so with little difficulty, when the operator has as large a number of successive blips to work with as is here involved. Nevertheless, it is necessary to regard the speed as quite uncertain here, though presumably in the range of several thousand miles pr hour and hence not associable with any conventional aircraft, nor with still higher-speed meteors either.) b) _Second radar siqhting, 2130-2155Z._ A few minutes after the preceding event, T/Sgt _____ picked up on the same MPN-11A a group of 12-15 objects about 8 miles SW of Brentwaters. In the report to Bluebook, he pointed out that "these objects appeared as normal targets on the GCA scope and that normal checks made to determine possible malfunctions of the GCA radar failed to indicate anything was technically wrong." The dozen or so objects were moving together towards the NE at varying speeds, ranging between 80 and 125 mph, and "the 12 to 15 unidentified objects were preceded by 3 objects which were in a triangular formation with an estimated 1000 feet separating each object in this formation." The dozen objects to the rear "were scattered behind the lead formation of 3 at irregular intervals with the whole group simultaneously covering a 6 to 7 mile area," the official report notes. Consistent radar returns came from this group during their 25-minute movement from the point at which they were first picked up, 8 mi. SW, to a point about 40 mi. NE of Bentwaters, their echoes decreasing in intensity as they moved off to the NE. When the group reached a point some 40 mi. NE, they all appeared to converge to form a single radar echo whose intensity is described as several times larger than a B-36 return under comparable conditions. Then motion ceased, while this single strong echo remained stationary for 10-15 minutes. Then it resumed motion to the NE for 5-6 miles, stopped again for 3-5 minutes, and finally moved northward and off the scope. c) _Third radar siqhting, 2200Z._ Five minutes after the foregoing formation moved off-scope, T/Sgt _____ detected an unidentified target about 30 mi. E of the Bentwaters GCA station, and tracked it in rapid westward motion to a point about 25 mi. W of the station, where the object "suddenly disappeared off the radar screen by rapidly moving out of the GCS radation pattern," according to his interpretation of the event. Here, again, we get discordant speed information, for T/Sgt _____ gave the speed only as being "in excess of 4000 mph," whereas the time-duration of the tracking, given as 16 sec, implies a speed of 12,000 mph, for the roughly 55 mi. track-length reported. Nothing in the Bluebook files indicates that this discrepancy was investigated further or even noticed, so one can say only that the apparent speed lay far above that of conventional aircraft. d) _Other observations at Bentwaters._ A control tower sergeant, aware of the concurrent radar tracking, noted a light "the size of a pin-head at arm's length" at about 10 deg. elevation to the SSE. It remained there for about one hour, intermittently appearing and disappearing. Since Mars was in that part of the sky at that time, a reasonable interpretation is that the observer was looking at that planet. A T-33 of the 512th Fighter Interceptor Squadron, returning to Bentwaters from a routine flight at about 2130Z, was vectored to the NE to search for the group of objects being tracked in that sector. Their search, unaided by airborne radar, led to no airborne sighting of any aircraft or other objects in that area, and after about 45 minutes they terminated search, having seen only a bright star in the east and a coastal beacon as anything worth noting. The Bluebook case-file contains 1956 USAF discussions of the case that make a big point of the inconclusiveness of the tower operator's sighting and the negative results of the T-33 search, but say nothing about the much more puzzling radar-tracking incidents than to stress that they were of "divergent" directions, intimating that this somehow put them in the category of anomalous propagation, which scarcely follows. Indeed, none of the three cited radar sightings exhibits any features typical of AP echoes. The winds over the Bentwaters area are given in the file. They jump from the surface level (winds from 230 deg. at 5-10 kts) to the 6000 ft level (260 deg., 30 kts), and then hold at a steady 260 deg. up to 50,000 ft, with speeds rising to a maximum of 90 kts near 30,000 ft. Even if one sought to invoke the highly dubious Borden-Vickers hypothesis (moving waves on an inversion surface), not even the slowest of the tracked echoes (80-125 mph) could be accounted for, nor is it even clear that the direction would be explainable. Furthermore, the strength of the individual echoes (stated as comparable to normal aircraft returns), the merging of the 15 or so into a single echo, the two intervals of stationarity, and final motion off-scope at a direction about 45 deg. from the initial motion, are all wholly unexplainable in terms of AP in these 2130-2155Z incidents. The extremely high-speed westward motion of single targets is even further from any known radar-anomaly associated with disturbed propagation conditions. Blips that move across scopes from one sector to the opposite, in steady heading at steady apparent speed, correspond neither to AP nor to internal electronic disturbances. Nor could interference phenomena fit such observed echo behavior. Thus, this 30-minute period, 213O- 2200Z, embraced three distinct events for which no satisfactory explanation exists. That these three events are omitted from the discussions in the Condon Report is unfortunate, for they serve to underscore the scientific significance of subsequent events at both Bentwaters and Lakenheath stations. 4. Comments on Reporting of Events After 2255Z, 8/13/56: The events summarized above were communicated to Bluebook by Capt. Edward L. Holt of the 81st Fighter-Bomber Wing stationed at Bentwaters, as Report No. IR-1-56, dated 31 August, 1956. All events occurring subsequent to 2200Z, on the other hand, were communicated to Project Bluebook via an earlier, lengthy teletype transmission from the Lakenheath USAF unit, sent out in the standard format of the report-form specified by regulation AFR200-2. Two teletype transmissions, dated 8/17/56 and 8/21/56, identical in basic content, were sent from Lakenheath to Bluebook. The Condon Report presents the content of that teletype report on pp. 252-254, in full, except for deletion of all names and localities and omission of one important item to be noted later here. However, most readers will be entirely lost because what is presented actually constitutes a set of answers to questions that are not stated! The Condon Report does not offer the reader the hint that the version of AFR200-2 appearing in the Report's Appendix, pp. 819-826 (there identified by its current designation, AFR80-17) would provide the reader with the standardized questions needed to translate much of the otherwise extremely confusing array of answers on pp. 252-254. For that reason, plus others, many readers will almost certainly be greatly (and entirely unnecessarily) confused on reading this important part of the Lakenheath report in the Condon Report. That confusion, unfortunately, does not wholly disappear upon laboriously matching questions with answers, for it has long been one of the salient deficiencies of the USAF program of UFO report collection that the format of AFR200-2 (or its sequel AFR80-17) is usually only barely adequate and (especially for complex episodes such as that involved here) often entirely incapable of affording the reporting office enough scope to set out clearly and in proper chronological order all of the events that may be of potential scientific significance. Anyone who has studied many Bluebook reports in the AFR200-2 format, dating back to 1953, will be uncomfortably aware of this gross difficulty. Failure to carry out even modest followup investigations and incorporate findings thereof into Bluebook case-files leaves most intriguing Bluebook UFO cases full of unsatisfactorily answered questions. But those deficiencies do not, in my opinion, prevent the careful reader from discerning that very large numbers of those UFO cases carry highly significant scientific implications, implications of an intriguing problem going largely unexamined in past years. 5. _Initial Alerting of Lakenheath GCA and RTCC:_ The official files give no indication of any further UFO radar sightings by Bentwaters GCA from 2200 until 2255Z. But, at the latter time, another fast-moving target was picked up 30 mi. E of Bentwaters, heading almost due west at a speed given as "2000-4000 mph". It passed almost directly over Bentwaters, disappearing from their GCA scope for the usual beam-angle reasons when within 2-3 miles (the Condon Report intimates that this close in disappearance is diagnostic of AP, which seems to be some sort of tacit over- acceptance of the 1952 Borden-Vickers hypothesis), and then moving on until it disappeared from the scope 30 mi. W of Bentwaters. Very significantly, this radar-tracking of the passage of the unidentified target was matched by concurrent visual observations, by personnel on the ground looking up and also from an overhead aircraft looking down. Both visual reports involved only a light, a light described as blurred out by its high speed; but since the aircraft (identified as a C-47 by the Lakenheath non-com whose letter called this case to the attention of the Colorado Project) was flying only at 4000 ft, the altitude of the unknown object is bracketed within rather narrow bounds. (No mention of any sonic boom appears; but the total number of seemingly quite credible reports of UFOs moving at speeds far above sonic values and yet not emitting booms is so large that one must count this as just one more instance of many currently inexplicable phenomena associated with the UFO problem.) The reported speed is not fast enough for a meteor, nor does the low-altitude flat traJectory and absence of a concussive shock wave match any meteoric hypothesis. That there was visual confirmation from observation points both above and below this fast-moving radar-tracked obJect must be viewed as adding still further credence to, and scientific interest in, the prior three Bentwaters radar sightings of the previous hour. Apparently immediately after the 2255Z events, Bentwaters GCA alerted GCA Lakenheath, which lay off to its WNW. The answers to Questions 2(A) and 2(B) of the AFR200-2 format (on p. 253 of the Condon Report) seem to imply that Lakenheath ground observers were alerted in time to see a luminous object come in, at an estimated altitude of 2000-2500 ft, and on a heading towards SW. The lower estimated altitude and the altered heading do not match the Bentwaters sighting, and the ambiguity so inherent in the AFR200-2 format simply cannot be eliminated here, so the precise timing is not certain. All that seems certain here is that, at or subsequent to the Bentwaters alert-message, Lakenheath ground observers saw a luminous object come in out of the NE at low altitude, then _stop_, and take up an easterly heading and resume motion eastward out of sight. The precise time-sequence of the subsequent observations is not clearly deducible from the Lakenheath TWX sent in compliance with AFR200-2. But that many very interesting events, scientifically very baffling events, soon took place is clear from the report. No followup, from Bluebook or other USAF sources,'was undertaken, and so this potentially very important case, like hundreds of others, simply sent into the Bluebook files unclarified. I am forced to stress that nothing reveals so clearly the past years of scientifically inadequate UFO investigation as a few days' visit to Wright- Patterson AFB and a diligent reading of Bluebook case reports. No one with any genuine scientific interest in solving the UFO problem would have let accumulate so many years of reports like this one without seeing to it that the UFO reporting and followup investigations were brought into entirely different status from that in which they have lain for over 20 years. Deficiencies having been noted, I next catalog, without benefit of the exact time-ordering that is so crucial to full assessment of any UFO event, the intriguing observations and events at or near Lakenheath subsequent to the 2255Z alert from Bentwaters. 6. Non-chronological Summary of Lakenheath Sightings, 2255Z-0330Z. a. _Visual observations from ground._ As noted two paragraphs above, following the 2255Z alert from GCA Bentwaters, USAF ground observers at the Lakenheath RAF Station observed a luminous object come in on a southwesterly heading, stop, and then move off out of sight to the east. Subsequently, at an unspecified time, two moving white lights were seen, and "ground observers stated one white light joined up with another and both disappeared in formation together" (recall earlier radar observations of merging of targets seen by Bentwaters GCA). No discernible features of these luminous sources were noted by ground observers, but both the observers and radar operators concurred in their report-description that "the objects (were) travelling at terrific speeds and then stopping and changing course immediately." In a passage of the original Bluebook report which was for some reason not included in the version presented in the Condon Report, this concordance of radar and visual observations is underscored: "Thus two radar sets (i.e., Lakenheath GCA and RATCC radars) and three ground observers report substantially same." Later in the original Lakenheath report, this same concordance is reiterated: "the fact that radar and ground visual observations were made on its rapid acceleration and abrupt stops certainly lend credulance (sic) to the report." Since the date of this incident coincides with the date of peak frequency of the Perseid meteors, one might ask whether any part of the visual observations could have been due to Perseids. The basic Lakenheath report to Bluebook notes that the ground observers reported "unusual amount of shooting stars in sky", indicating that the erratically moving light(s) were readily distinguishable from meteors. The report further remarks thereon that "the objects seen were definitely not shooting stars as there were no trails as are usual with such sightings." Furthermore, the stopping and course reversals are incompatible with any such hypothesis in the first place. AFR200-2 stipulates that observer be asked to compare the UFO to the size of various familiar objects when held at arm's length (Item 1-B in the format). In answer to that item, the report states: "One observer from ground stated on first observation object was about size of golf ball. As object continued in flight it became a 'pin point'." Even allowing for the usual inaccuracies in such estimates, this further rules out Perseids, since that shower yields oniy meteors of quite low luminosity. In summary of the ground-visual observations, it appears that three ground observers at Lakenheath saw at least two luminous objects, saw these over an extended though indefinite time period, saw them execute sharp course changes, saw them remain motionless at least once, saw two objects merge into a single luminous object at one juncture, and reported motions in general accord with concurrent radar observations. These ground-visual observations, in themselves, constitute scientifically interesting UFO report-material. Neither astronomical nor aeronautical explanations, nor any meteorological-optical explanations, match well those reported phenomena. One could certainly wish for a far more complete and time-fixed report on these visual observations, but even the above information suffices to suggest some unusual events. The unusualness will be seen to be even greater on next examining the ground-radar observations from Lakenheath. And even stronger interest emerges as we then turn, last of all, to the airborne-visual and airborne-radar observations made near Lakenheath. b. _Ground-radar observations at Lakenheath._ The GCA surveillance radar at Lakenheath is identified as a CPN-4, while the RATCC search radar was a CPS-5 (as the non-com correctly recalled in his letter). Because the report makes clear that these two sets were concurrently following the unknown targets, it is relevant to note that they have different wavelengths, pulse repetition frequencies, and scan-rates, which (for reasons that need not be elaborated here) tends to rule out several radar-anomaly hypotheses (e.g., interference echoes from a distant radar, second-time-around effects, AP). However, the reported maneuvers are so unlike any of those spurious effects that it seems almost unnecessary to confront those possibilities here. As with the ground-visual observations, so also with these radar-report items, the AFR200-2 format limitations plus the other typical deficiencies of reporting of UFO events preclude reconstruction in detail, and in time-order, of all the relevant events. I get the impression that the first object seen visually by ground observers was not radar-tracked, although this is unclear from the report to Bluebook. One target whose motions were jointly followed both on the CPS-5 at the Radar Air Traffic Control Center and on the shorter- range, faster-scanning CPN-4 at the Lakenheath GCA unit was tracked "from 6 miles west to about 20 miles SW where target stopped and assumed a stationary position for five minutes. Target then assumed a heading northwesterly (I presume this was intended to read 'northeasterly', and the non-com so indicates in his recollective account of what appears to be the same maneuvers) into the Station and stopped two miles NW of Station. Lakenheath GCA reports three to four additional targets were doing the same maneuvers in the vicinity of the Station. Thus two radar sets and three ground observers report substantially same." (Note that the quoted item includes the full passage omitted from the Condon Report version, and note that it seems to imply that this devious path with two periods of stationary hovering was also reported by the visual observers. However, the latter is not entirely certain because of ambiguities in the structure of the basic report as forced into the AFR200-2 format). At some time, which context seems to imply as rather later in the night (the radar sightings went on until about 0330Z), "Lakenheath Radar Air Traffic Control Center observed object 17 miles east of Station making sharp rectangular course of flight. This maneuver was not conducted by circular path but on right angles at speeds of 600-800 mph. Object would stop and start with amazing rapidity." The report remarks that "...the controllers are experienced and technical skills were used in attempts to determine just what the objects were. When the target would stop on the scope, the MTI was used. However, the target would still appear on the scope." (The latter is puzzling. MTI, Moving Target Indication, is a standard feature on search or surveillance radars that eliminates ground returns and returns from large buildings and other motionless objects. This very curious feature of display of stationary modes while the MTI was on adds further strong argument to the negation of any hypothesis of anomalous propagation of ground-returns. It was as if the unidentified target, while seeming to hover motionless, was actually undergoing small-amplitude but high-speed jittering motion to yield a scope- displayed return despite the MTI. Since just such jittery motion has been reported in visual UFO sightings on many occasions, and since the coarse resolution of a PPI display would not permit radar-detection of such motion if its amplitude were below, say, one or two hundred meters, this could conceivably account for the persistence of the displayed return during the episodes of "stationary" hovering, despite use of MTI.) The portion of the radar sightings just described seems to have been vividly recollected by the retired USAF non-com who first called this case to the attention of the Colorado group. Sometime after the initial Bentwaters alert, he had his men at the RATCC scanning all available scopes, various scopes set at various ranges. He wrote that "...one controller noticed a stationary target on the scopes about 20 to 25 miles southwest. This was unusual, as a stationary target should have been eliminated unless it was moving at a speed of at least 40 to 45 knots. And yet we could detect no movement at all. We watched this target on all the different scopes for several minutes and I called the GCA Unit at (Lakenheath) to see if they had this target on their scope in the same geographical location. As we watched, the stationary target started moving at a speed of 400 to 600 mph in a north- northeast direction until it reached a point about 20 miles north northwest of (Lakenheath). There was no slow start or build-up to this speed -- it was constant from the second it started to move until it stopped." (This description, written 11 years after the event, matches the 1956 intelligence report from the Lakenheath USAF unit so well, even seeming to avoid the typographical direction-error that the Lakenheath TWX contained, that one can only assume that he was deeply impressed by this whole incident. That, of course, is further indicated by the very fact that he wrote the Colorado group about it in the first place.) His letter (Condon Report, p. 249) adds that "the target made several changes in location, always in a straight line, always at about 600 mph and always from a standing or stationary point to his next stop at constant speed -- no build-up in speed at all -- these changes in location varied from 8 miles to 20 miles in length --no set pattern at any time. Time spent stationary between movements also varied from 3 or 4 minutes to 5 or 6 minutes..." Because his account jibes so well with the basic Bluebook file report in the several particulars in which it can be checked, the foregoing quotation from the letter as reproduced in the Condon Report stands as meaningful indication of the highly unconventional behavior of the unknown aerial target. Even allowing for some recollective uncertainties, the non-com's description of the behavior of the unidentified radar target lies so far beyond any meteorological, astronomical, or electronic explanation as to stand as one challenge to any suggestions that UFO reports are of negligible scientific interest. The non-com's account indicates that they plotted the discontinuous stop- and-go movements of the target for some tens of minutes before it was decided to scramble RAF interceptors to investigate. That third major aspect of the Lakenheath events must now be considered. (The delay in scrambling interceptors is noteworthy in many Air Force-related UFO incidents of the past 20 years. I believe this reluctance stems from unwillingness to take action lest the decision-maker be accused of taking seriously a phenomenon which the Air Force officially treats as non-existent.) c. Airborne radar and visual sightings by Venom interceptor. An RAF jet interceptor, a Venom single-seat subsonic aircraft equipped with an air-intercept (AI) nose radar, was scrambled, according to the basic Bluebook report, from Waterbeach RAF Station, which is located about 6 miles north of Cambridge, and some 20 miles SW of Lakenheath. Precise time of the scramble does not appear in the report to Bluebook, but if we were to try to infer the time from the non-com's recollective account, it would seem to have been somewhere near midnight. Both the non-com's letter and the contemporary intelligence report make clear that Lakenheath radar had one of their unidentified targets on-scope as the Venom came in over the Station from Waterbeach. The TWX to Blue book states: "The aircraft flew over RAF Station Lakenheath and was vectored toward a target on radar 6 miles east of the field. Pilot advised he had a bright white light in sight and would investigate. At thirteen miles west (east?) he reported loss of target and white light." It deserves emphasis that the foregoing quote clearly indicates that the UFO that the Venom first tried to intercept was being monitored via three distinct physical "sensing channels." It was being recorded by _ground radar_, by _airborne radar_, and _visually_. Many scientists are entirely unaware that Air Force files contain such UFO cases; for this very interesting category has never been stressed in USAF discussions of its UFO records. Note, in fact, the similarity to the 1957 RB-47 case (Case 1 above) in the evidently simultaneous loss of visual and airborne-radar signal here. One wonders if ground radar also lost it simultaneously with the Venom pilot's losing it, but, loss of visual and airborne-radar signal here. One wonders if ground radar also lost it simultaneously with the Venom pilot's losing it, but, as is so typical of AFR200-2 reports, incomplete reporting precludes clarification. Nothing in the Bluebook case-file on this incident suggests that anyone at Bluebook took any trouble to run down that point or the many other residual questions that are so painfully evident here. The file does, however, include a lengthy dispatch from the then-current Blue book officer, Capt. G. T. Gregory, a dispatch that proposes a series of what I must term wholly irrelevant hypotheses about Perseid meteors with "ionized gases in their wake which may be traced on radarscopes", and inversions that "may cause interference between two radar stations some distance apart." Such basically irrelevant remarks are all too typical of Bluebook critique over the years. The file also includes a case- discussion by Dr. J. A. Hynek, Bluebook consultant, who also toys with the idea of possible radar returns from meteor wake ionization. Not only are the radar frequencies here about two orders of magnitude too high to afford even marginal likelihood of meteor-wake returns, but there is absolutely no kinematic similarity between the reported UFO movements and the essentially straight-line hypersonic movement of a meteor, to cite just a few of the strong objections to any serious consideration of meteor hypotheses for the present UFO case. Hynek's memorandum on the case makes some suggestions about the need for upgrading Bluebook operations, and then closes with the remarks that "The Lakenheath report could constitute a source of embarrassment to the Air Force; and should the facts, as so far reported, get into the public domain, it is not necessary to point out what excellent use the several dozen UFO societies and other 'publicity artists' would make of such an incident. It is, therefore, of great importance that further information on the technical aspects of the original observations be obtained, without loss of time from the original observers." That memo of October 17, 1956,is followed in the case-file by Capt. Gregory's November 26, 1956 reply, in which he concludes that "our original analyses of anomalous propagation and astronimical is (sic) more or less correct"; and there the case investigation seemed to end, at the same casually closed level at which hundreds of past UFO cases have been closed out at Bluebook with essentially no real scientific critique. I would say that it is exceedingly unfortunate that "the facts , as so far reported" did not get into the public domain, along with the facts on innumerable other Bluebook case-files that should have long ago startled the scientific community just as much as they startled me when I took the trouble to go to Bluebook and spend a number of days studying those astonishing files. Returning to the scientifically fascinating account of the Venom pilot's attempt to make an air-intercept on the Lakenheath unidentified object, the original report goes on to note that, after the pilot lost both visual and radar signals, "RATCC vectored him to a target 10 miles east of Lakenheath and pilot advised target was on radar and he was 'locking on.'" Although here we are given no information on the important point of whether he also saw a luminous object, as he got a radar lock-on, we definitely have another instance of at least two-channel detection. The concurrent detection of a single radar target by a ground radar and an airborne radar under conditions such as these, where the target proves to be a highly maneuverable object (see below), categorically rules out any conventional explanations involving, say, large ground structures and propagation anomalies. That MTI was being used on the ground radar also excludes that, of course. The next thing that happened was that the Venom suddenly lost radar lock- on as it neared the unknown target. RATCC reported that "as the Venom passed the target on radar, the target began a tail chase of the friendly fighter." RATCC asked the Venom pilot to acknowledge this turn of events and he did, saying "he would try to circle and get behind the target." His attempts were unsuccessful, which the report to Bluebook describes only in the terse comment, "Pilot advised he was unable to 'shake' the target off his tail and requested assistance." The non-com's letter is more detailed and much more emphatic. He first remarks that the UFO's sudden evasive movement into tail position was so swift that he missed it on his own scope, "but it was seen by the other controllers." His letter then goes on to note that the Venom pilot "tried everything -- he climbed, dived, circled, etc., but the UFO acted like it was glued right behind him, always the same distance, very close, but we always had two distinct targets." Here again, note how the basic report is annoyingly incomplete. One is not told whether the pilot knew the UFO was pursuing his Venom by virtue of some tail-radar warning device of type often used on fighters (none is alluded to), or because he could see a luminous object in pursuit. In order for him to "acknowledge" the chase seems to require one or the other detection-mode, yet the report fails to clarify this important point. However, the available information does make quite clear that the pursuit was being observed on ground radar, and the non-com's recollection puts the duration of the pursuit at perhaps 10 minutes before the pilot elected to return to his base. Very significantly, the intelligence report from Lakenheath to Bluebook quotes this first pilot as saying "clearest target I have ever seen on radar", which again eliminates a number of hypotheses, and argues most cogently the scientific significance of the whole episode. The non-com recalled that, as the first Venom returned to Waterbeach Aerodrome when fuel ran low, the UFO followed him a short distance and then stopped; that important detail is, however, not in the Bluebook report. A second Venom was then scrambled, but, in the short time before a malfunction forced it to return to Waterbeach, no intercepts were accomplished by that second pilot. 7. Discussion: The Bluebook report material indicates that other radar unknowns were being observed at Lakenheath until about 0330Z. Since the first radar unknowns appeared near Bentwaters at about 2130Z on 8/13/56, while the Lakenheath events terminated near 0330Z on 8/14/56, the total duration of this UFO episode was about six hours. The case includes an impressive number of scientifically provocative features: 1) At least three separate instances occurred in which one ground-radar unit, GCA Bentwaters, tracked some unidentified target for a number of tens of miles across its scope at speeds in excess of Mach 3. Since even today, 12 years later, no nation has disclosed military aircraft capable of flight at such speeds (we may exclude the X-15), and since that speed is much too low to fit any meteoric hypothesis, this first feature (entirely omitted from discussion in the Condon Report) is quite puzzling. However, Air Force UFO files and other sources contain many such instances of nearly hypersonic speeds of radar-tracked UFOs. 2) In one instance, about a dozen low-speed (order of 100 mph) targets moved in loose formation led by three closely-spaced targets, the assemblage yielding consistent returns over a path of about 50 miles, after which they merged into a single large target, remained motionless for some 10-15 minutes, and then moved off-scope. Under the reported wind conditions, not even a highly contrived meteorological explanation invoking anomalous propagation and inversion layer waves would account for this sequence observed at Bentwaters. The Condon Report omits all discussion of items 1) and 2), for reasons that I find difficult to understand. 3) One of the fast-track radar sightings at Bentwaters, at 2255Z, coincided with visual observations of some very-high-speed luminous source seen by both a tower operator on the ground and by a pilot aloft who saw the light moving in a blur below his aircraft at 4000 ft altitude. The radar-derived speed "as given as 2000-4000 mph. Again, meteors won't fit such speeds and altitudes, and we may exclude aircraft for several evident reasons, including absence of any thundering sonic boom that would surely have been reported if any near hypothetical secret 1956-vintage hypersonic device were flying over Bentwaters at less than 4000 ft that night. 4) Several ground observers at Lakenheath saw luminous obJects exhibiting non-ballistic motions, including dead stops and sharp course reversals. 5) In one instance, two luminous white objects merged into a single object, as seen from the ground at Lakenheath. This wholly unmeteoric and unaeronautical phenomenon is actually a not-uncommon feature of UFO reports during the last two decades. For example, radar-tracked merging of two targets that veered together sharply before Joining up was reported over Kincheloe AFB, Michigan, in a UFO report that also appears in the Condon Report (p. 164), quite unreasonably attributed therein to "anomalous propagation." 6) Two separate ground radars at Lakenheath, having rather different radar parameters, were concurrently observing movements of one or more unknown targets over an extended period of time. Seemingly stationary hovering modes were repeatedly observed, and this despite use of MTI. Seemingly "instantaneous" accelerations from rest to speeds of order of Mach 1 were repeatedly observed. Such motions cannot readily be explained in terms of any known aircraft flying then or now, and also fail to fit known electronic or propagation anomalies. The Bluebook report gives the impression (somewhat ambiguously, however) that some of these two-radar observations were coincident with ground-visual observations. 7) In at least one instance, the Bluebook report makes clear that an unidentified luminous target was seen visually from the air by the pilot of an interceptor while getting simultaneous radar returns from the unknown with his nose radar concurrent with ground-radar detection of the same unknown. This is scientifically highly significant, for it entails three separate detection-channels all recording the unknown object. 8) In _at least_ one instance, there was simultaneous radar disappearance and visual disappearance of the UFO. This is akin to similar events in other known UFO cases, yet is not easily explained in terms of conventional phenomena. 9) Attempts of the interceptor to close on one target seen both on ground radar and on the interceptor's nose radar, led to a puzzling rapid interchange of roles as the unknown object moved into tail- position behind the interceptor. While under continuing radar observation from the ground, with both aircraft and unidentified object clearly displayed on the Lakenheath ground radars, the pilot of the interceptor tried unsuccessfully to break the tail chase over
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 04/04 - 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 02:58:08 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:59:15 -0500 Subject: 04/04 - 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations Note: Any Changes? AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE, 134th MEETING Subject Science in Default: 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations Author James E. McDonald, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences Address The University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona, 85721 Time 9:00 a.m., December 27, 1969 Place Sheraton Plaza Ballroom Program General Symposium, Unidentified Flying Objects Convention Address Sheraton Plaza Hotel RELEASE TIME A.M,'s December 28 No scientifically adequate investigation of the UFO problem has been carried out during the entire 22 years that have now passed since the first extensive wave of sightings of unidentified aerial objects in the summer of 1947. Despite continued public interest, and despite frequent expressions of public concern, only quite superficial examinations of the steadily growing body of unexplained UFO reports from credible witnesses have been conducted in this country or abroad. The latter point is highly relevant, since all evidence now points to the fact that UFO sightings exhibit similar characteristics throughout the world. Charging inadequacy of all past UFO investigations, I speak not only from a background of close study of the past investigations, but also from a background of three years of rather detailed personal research, involving interviews with over five hundred witnesses in selected UFO cases, chiefly in the U. S. In my opinion, the UFO problem, far from being the nonsense problem that it has often been labeled by many scientists, constitutes a problem of extraordinary scientific interest. The grave difficulty with essentially all past UFO studies has been that they were either devoid of any substantial scientific content, or else have lost their way amidst the relatively large noise-content that tends to obscure the real signal in the UFO reports. The presence of a percentually large number of reports of misidentified natural or technological phenomena (planets, meteors, and aircraft, above all) is not surprising, given all the circumstances surrounding the UFO problem. Yet such understandable and usually easily recognized instances of misidentification have all too often been seized upon as a sufficient explanation for all UFO reports, while the residue of far more significant reports (numbering now of order one thousand) are ignored. I believe science is in default for having failed to mount any truly adequate studies of this problem, a problem that has aroused such strong and widespread public concern during the past two decades. Unfortunately, the present climate of thinking, above all since release of the latest of a long series of inadequate studies, namely, that conducted under the direction of Dr. E. U. Condon at the University of Colorado, will make it very difficult to secure any new and more thorough investigations, yet my own examination of the problem forces me to call for just such new studies. I am enough of a realist to sense that, unless the present AAAS UFO Symposium succeeds in making the scientific community aware of the seriousness of the UFO problem, little immediate response to any call for new investigation is likely to appear. In fact, the over-all public and scientific response to the UFO phenomena is itself a matter of substantial scientific interest, above all in its social-psychological aspects. Prior to my own investigations, I would never have imagined the wide spread reluctance to report an unusual and seemingly inexplicable event, yet that reluctance, and the attendant reluctance of scientists to exhibit serious interest in the phenomena in question, are quite general. One regrettable result is the fact that the most credible of UFO witnesses are often those most reluctant to come forward with a report of the event they have witnessed. A second regrettable result is that only a very small number of scientists have taken the time and trouble to search out the nearly puzzling reports that tend to be diluted out by the much larger number of trivial and non-significant UFO reports. The net result is that there still exists no general scientific recognition of the scope and nature of the UFO problem. * * * Within the federal government official responsibility for UFO investigations has rested with the Air Force since early 1948. Unidentified aerial objects quite naturally fall within the area of Air Force concern, so this assignment of responsibility was basically reasonable, However, once it became clear (early 1949) that UFO reports did not seem to involve advanced aircraft of some hostile foreign power, Air Force interest subsided to relatively low levels, marked, however, by occasional temporary resurgence of interest following large waves of UFO reports, such as that of 1952, or 1957, or 1965. A most unfortunate pattern of press reporting developed by about 1953, in which the Air Force would assert that they had found no evidence of anything "defying explanation in terms of present-day science and technology" in their growing files of UFO reports. These statements to the public would have done little harm had they not been coupled systematically to press statements asserting that "the best scientific facilities available to the U. S. Air Force" had been and were being brought to bear on the UFO question. The assurances that substantial scientific competence was involved in Air Force UFO investigations have, I submit, had seriously deleterious scientific effects. Scientists who might otherwise have done enough checking to see that a substantial scientific puzzle lay in the UFO area were misled by these assurances into thinking that capable scientists had already done adequate study and found nothing. My own extensive checks have revealed so slight a total amount of scientific competence in two decades of Air Force-supported investigations that I can only regard the repeated asseverations of solid scientific study of the UFO . problem as the single most serious obstacle that the Air Force has put in the way of progress towards elucidation of the matter I do not believe, let me stress, that this has been part of some top- secret coverup of extensive investigations by Air Force or security agencies; I have found no substantial basis for accepting that theory of why the Air Force has so long failed to respond appropriately to the many significant and scientifically intriguing UFO reports coming from within its own ranks. Briefly, I see grand foulup but not grand coverup. Although numerous instances could be cited wherein Air Force spokesmen failed to release anything like complete details of UFO reports, and although this has had the regrettable consequence of denying scientists at large even a dim notion of the almost incredible nature of some of the more impressive Air Force-related UFO reports, I still feel that the most grievous fault of 22 years of Air Force handling of the UFO problem has consisted of their repeated public assertions that they had substantial scientific competence on the job. Close examination of the level of investigation and the level of scientific analysis involved in Project Sign (1948-9), Project Grudge (1949- 52), and Project Bluebook (1953 to date), reveals that these were, viewed scientifically, almost meaning less investigations. Even during occasional periods (e.g., 1952) characterized by fairly active investigation of UFO cases, there was still such slight scientific expertise involved that there was never any real chance that the puzzling phenomena encountered in the most significant UFO cases would be elucidated. Furthermore, the panels, consultants, contractual studies, etc., that the Air Force has had working on the UFO problem over the past 22 years have, with essentially no exception, brought almost negligible scientific scrutiny into the picture. Illustrative examples will be given. The Condon Report, released in January, 1968, after about two years of Air Force-supported study is, in my opinion, quite inadequate. The sheer bulk of the Report, and the inclusion of much that can only be viewed as "scientific padding", cannot conceal from anyone who studies it closely the salient point that it represents an examination of only a tiny fraction of the most puzzling UFO reports of the past two decades, and that its level of scientific argumentation is wholly unsatisfactory. Furthermore, of the roughly 90 cases that it specifically confronts, over 30 are conceded to be unexplained. With so large a fraction of unexplained cases (out of a sample that is by no means limited only to the truly puzzling cases, but includes an obJectionably large number of obviously trivial cases), it is far from clear how Dr. Condon felt justified in concluding that the study indicated "that further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby. " I shall cite a number of specific examples of cases from the Condon Report which I regard as entirely inadequately investigated and reported. One at Kirtland AFB, November 4, 1957, involved observations of a wingless egg- shaped object that was observed hovering about a minute over the field prior to departure at a climb rate which was described to me as faster than that of any known jets, then or now. The principal witnesses in this case were precisely the type of witnesses whose accounts warrant closest attention, since they were CAA tower observers who watched the UFO from the CAA tower with binoculars. Yet, when I located these two men in the course of my own check of cases from the Condon Report, I found that neither of them had even been contacted by members of the University of Colorado project! Both men were fully satisfied that they had been viewing a device with performance characteristics well beyond any thing in present or foreseeable aeronautical technology. The two men gave me descriptions that were mutually consistent and that fit closely the testimony given on Nov. 6, 1957, when they were interrogated by an Air Force investigator. The Condon Report attempts to explain this case as a light-aircraft that lost its way, came into the field area, and then left. This kind of explanation runs through the whole Condon Report, yet is wholly incapable of explaining the details of sightings such as that of the Kirtland AFB incident. Other illustrative instances in which the investigations summarized in the Condon Report exhibit glaring deficiencies will be cited. I suggest that there are enough significant unexplainable UFO reports just within the Condon Report itself to document the need for a greatly increased level of scientific study of UFOs. That a panel of the National Academy of Sciences could endorse this study is to me disturbing. I find no evidence that the Academy panel did any independent checking of its own; and none of that 11-man panel had any significant prior investigative experience in this area, to my knowledge. I believe that this sort of Academy endorsement must be criticized; it hurts science in the long run, and I fear that this particular instance will ultimately prove an embarrassment to the National Academy of Sciences. The Condon Report and its Academy endorsement have exerted a highly negative influence on clarification of the long-standing UFO problem; so much, in fact, that it seems almost pointless to now call for new and more extensive UFO investigations. Yet the latter are precisely what are needed to bring out into full light of scientific inquiry a phenomenon that could well constitute one of the greatest scientific problems of our times. * * * Some examples of UFO cases conceded to be unexplainable in the Condon Report and containing features of particularly strong scientific interest: Utica, N.Y., 6/23/55; Lakenheath, England, 8/13/56; Jackson, Ala., 11/14/56; Norfolk, Va., 8/30/57; RB-47 case, 9/19/57; Beverly Mass., 4/22/66; Donnybrook, N.D., 8/19/66; Haynesville, La., 12/30/66; Joplin, Mo., 1/13/67; Colorado Springs, Colo., 5/13/67. Some examples of UFO cases considered explained in the Condon Report for which I would take strong exception to the argumentation presented and would regard as both unexplained and of strong scientific interest: Flagstaff, Ariz., 5/20/50; Washington, D. C., 7/19/52; Bellefontaine, O., 8/1/52; Haneda AFB, Japan, 8/5/52; Gulf of Mexico, 12/6/52; Odessa, Wash., 12/10/52; Continental Divide, N.M., 1/26/53; Seven Isles, Quebec, 6/29/54; Niagara Falls, N.Y., 7/25/57; Kirtland AFB, N.M., 11/4/57; Gulf of Mexico, 11/5/57; Peru, 12/30/66; Holloman AFB, 3/2/67; Kincheloe AFB, 9/11/67; Vandenberg AFB, 10/6/67; Milledgeville, Ga., 10/20/67. SCIENCE IN DEFAULT: 22 YEARS OF INADEQUATE UFO INVESTIGATIONS James E. McDonald, Institute of Atmospheric Physics University of Arizona, Tucson (Material presented at the Symposium on UFOs, 134th Meeting, AAAS, Boston, Dec, 27, 1969) *** ILLUSTRATIVE CASES The following treats in detail the four principal UFO cases referred to in my Symposium talk. They are presented as specific illustrations of what I regard as serious shortcomings of case-investigations in the Condon Report and in the 1947-69 Air Force UFO program. The four cases used as illustrations are the following : 1. RB-47 case, Gulf Coast area, Sept. 19, 1957 2. Lakenheath RAF Station, England, August 13-14, 1956 3. Haneda AFB, Japan, August 5-6, 1952 4. Kirtland AFB, New Mexico, Nov. 4, 1957 My principal conclusions are that scientific inadequacies in past years of UFO investigations by Air Force Project Bluebook have _not_ been remedied through publication of the Condon Report, and that there remain scientifically very important unsolved problems with respect to UFOs. The investigative and evaluative deficiencies illustrated in the four cases examined in detail are paralleled by equally serious shortcomings in many other cases in the sample of about 90 UFO cases treated in the Condon Report. Endorsement of the conclusions of the Condon Report by the National Academy of Sciences appears to have been based on entirely superficial examination of the Report and the cases treated therein. Further study, conducted on a much more sound scientific level are needed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SOME ILLUSTRATIVE UFO CASES - J. E. McDonald (AAAS UFO Symposium, Boston, Dec. 27, 1969.) Case 1. USAF RB-47, Gulf Coast area, September 19-20, 1957. Brief summary: An Air Force RB-47, equipped with ECM (Electronic Countermeasures) gear, manned by six officers, was followed over a total distance in excess of 600 miles and for a time period of more than an hour, as it flew from near Gulfport, Miss., through Louisiana and Texas, and into southern Oklahoma. The unidentified object was, at various times, seen visually by the cockpit crew (as an intense white or red light), followed by ground-radar, and detected on ECM monitoring gear aboard the RB-47. Simultaneous appearances and disappearances on all three of those physically distinct "channels" mark this UFO case as especially intriguing from a scientific viewpoint. The incident is described as Case 5 in the Condon Report and is conceded to be unexplained. The full details, however, are not presented in that Report. 1. Summary of the Case: The case is long and involved and filled with well-attested phenomena that defy easy explanation in terms of present-day science and technology. The RB-47 was flying out of Forbes AFB, Topeka, on a composite mission including gunnery exercises over the Texas-Gulf area, navigation exercises over the open Gulf, and ECM exercises in the return trip across the south-central U.S. This was an RB-47 carrying a six-man crew, of whom three were electronic warfare officers manning ECM (Electronic counter-measures) gear in the aft portion of the aircraft. One of the extremely interesting aspects of this case is that electromagnetic signals of distinctly radar-like character appeared definitely to be emitted by the UFO, yet it exhibited performance characteristics that seem to rule out categorically its having been any conventional or secret aircraft. I have discussed the incident with all six officers of the crew: Lewis D. Chase, pilot, Spokane, Wash. James H. McCoid, copilot, Offutt AFB Thomas H. Hanley, navigator, Vandenberg AFB John J. Provenzano, No. 1 monitor, Wichita Frank B. McClure, No. 2 monitor, Offutt AFB Walter A. Tuchscherer, No. 3 monitor, Topeka Chase was a Major at the time; I failed to ask for information on 1957 ranks of the others. McClure and Hanley are currently Majors, so might have been Captains or Lieutenants in 1957. All were experienced men at the time. Condon Project investigators only talked with Chase, McCoid, and McClure, I ascertained. In my checking it proved necessary to telephone several of them more than once to pin down key points; nevertheless the total case is so complex that I would assume that there are still salient points not clarified either by the Colorado investigators or by myself. Unfortunately, there appears to be no way, at present to locate the personnel involved in ground- radar observations that are a very important part of the whole case. I shall discuss that point below. This flight occurred in September, 1957, just prior to the crew's reassignment to a European base. On questioning by Colorado investigators, flight logs were consulted, and based on the recollection that this flight was within a short time of departure from Forces to Germany, (plus the requirement that the date match a flight of the known type and geography) the 9/19/57 date seems to have emerged. The uncertainty as to whether it was early on the 19th or early on the 20th, cited above is a point of confusion I had not noted until preparing the present notes. Hence I am unable to add any clarification, at the moment; in this matter of the date confusion found in Thayer's discussion of the case (1, pp. 136-138). I shall try to check that in the near future. For the present, it does not vitiate case-discussion in any significant way. The incident is most inadequately described in the Condon Report. The reader is left with the general notion that the important parts occurred near Ft. Worth, an impression strengthened by the fact that both Crow and Thayer discuss meteorological data only for that area. One is also left with no clear impression of the duration, which was actually over an hour. The incident involved an unknown airborne object that stayed with the RB-47 for over 600 miles. In case after case in the Condon Report, close checking reveals that quite significant features of the cases have been glossed over, or omitted, or in some instances seriously misrepresented. I submit that to fail to inform the reader that this particular case spans a total distance-range of some 600 miles and lasted well over an hour is an omission difficult to justify. From my nine separate interviews with the six crew members, I assembled a picture of the events that makes it even more puzzling than it seems on reading the Condon Report -- and even the latter account is puzzling enough. Just as the aircraft crossed the Mississippi coast near Gulfport, McClure, manning the #2 monitor, detected a signal near their 5 o'clock position (aft of the starboard beam). It looked to him like a legitimate ground-radar signal, but corresponded to a position out in the Gulf. This is the actual beginning of the complete incident; but before proceeding with details it is necessary to make quite clear what kind of equipment we shall be talking about as we follow McClure's successive observations. Under conditions of war, bombing aircraft entering hostile territory can be assisted in their penetrations if any of a variety of electronic countermeasures (ECM techniques as they are collectively termed) are brought into action against ground-based enemy radar units. The initial step in all ECM operations is, necessarily, that of detecting the enemy radar and quantitatively identifying a number of relevant features of the radar system (carrier frequency, pulse repetition frequency, scan rate, pulse width) and, above all, its bearing relative to the aircraft heading. The latter task is particularly ample in principle, calling only for direction-finding antennas which pick up the enemy signal and display on a monitor scope inside the reconnaissance aircraft a blip or lobe that paints in the relative bearing from which the signal is coming. The ECM gear used in RB-47's in 1957 is not now classified; the #2 monitor that McClure was on, he and the others pointed out, involved an ALA-6 direction-finder with back-to-back antennas in a housing on the undersurface of the RB-47 near the rear, spun at either 150 or 300 rpm as it scanned in azimuth. Inside the aircraft, its signals were processed in an APR-9 radar receiver and an ALA-5 pulse analyser. All later references to the #2 monitor imply that system. The #1 monitor employed an APD-4 direction finding system, with a pair of antennas permanently mounted on either wing tip. Provenzano was on the #1 monitor. Tuchscherer was on the #3 monitor, whose specifications I did not ascertain because I could find no indication that it was involved in the observations. Returning now to the initial features of the UFO episode, McClure at first thought he had 180-degree ambiguity in his scope, i.e., that the signal whose lobe painted at his 5 o'clock position was actually coming in from the 11 o'clock position perhaps from some ground radar in Louisiana. This suspicion, he told me, was temporarily strengthened as he became aware that the lobe was moving upscope. (It is important here and in features of the case cited below to understand how a fixed ground-radar paints on the ECM monitor scope as the reconnaissance aircraft flies toward its general direction: Suppose the ground radar is, at some instant, located at the 1 o'clock position relative to the moving aircraft, i.e., slightly off the starboard bow. As the aircraft flies along, the relative bearing steadily changes, so that the fixed ground unit is "seen" successively at the 2 o'clock, the 3 o'clock, and the 4 o'clock positions, etc. The lobe paints on the monitor scope at these successive relative azimuths, the 12 o'clock position being at the top of the scope, 3 o'clock at the right, etc. Thus any legitimate signal from a fixed ground radar must move downscope, excluding the special cases in which the radar is dead ahead or dead astern. Note carefully that we deal here only with direction finding gear. Range is unknown; we are not here speaking of an airborne radar set, just a radar-frequency direction-finder. In practice, range is obtained by triangulation computations based on successive fixes and known aircraft speed.) As the lobe continued moving _upscope_, McClure said the strength of the incoming signal and its pulse characteristics all tended to confirm that this was some ground unit being painted with 180-degree ambiguity for some unknown electronic reason. It was at 2800 megacycles, a common frequency for S-band search radars. However, after the lobe swung dead ahead, his earlier hypothesis had to be abandoned for it continued swinging over to the 11 o'clock position and continued downscope on the port side. Clearly, no 180-degree ambiguity was capable of accounting for this. Curiously, however, this was so anomalous that McClure did not take it very seriously and did not at that juncture mention it to the cockpit crew nor to his colleagues on the other two monitors. This upscope-downscope "orbit" of the unknown was seen only on the ALA-6, as far as I could establish. Had nothing else occurred, this first and very significant portion of the whole episode would almost certainly have been for gotten by McClure. The signal faded as the RB-47 headed northward to the scheduled turning point over Jackson, Miss. The mission called for simulated detection and ECM operations against Air Force ground radar units all along this part of the flight plan, but other developments intervened. Shortly after making their turn westward over Jackson, Miss., Chase noted what he thought at first were the landing lights of some other jet coming in from near his 11 o'clock position, at roughly the RB-47's altitude. But no running lights were discernible and it was a single very bright white light, closing fast. He had just alerted the rest of the crew to be ready for sudden evasive maneuvers, when he and McCoid saw the light almost instantaneously change directions and rush across from left to right at an angular velocity that Chase told me he'd never seen matched in his flight experience. The light went from their 11 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position with great rapidity, and then blinked out. Immediately after that, Chase and McCoid began talking about it on the interphone and McClure, recalling the unusual 2800 megacycle signal that he had seen over Gulfport now mentioned that peculiar incident for the first time to Chase and McCoid. It occurred to him at that point to set his #2 monitor to scan at 2800 mcs. On the first scan, McClure told me, he got a strong 2800 mcs signal from their 2 o'clock position, the bearing on which the luminous unknown object had blinked out moments earlier. Provenzano told me that right after that they had checked out the #2 monitor on valid ground radar stations to be sure it was not malfunctioning and it appeared to be in perfect order. He then checked on his #1 monitor and also got a signal from the same bearing. There remained, of course, the possibility that just by chance, this signal was from a real radar down on the ground and off in that direction. But as the minutes went by, and the aircraft continued westward at about 500 kts. the relative bearing of the 2800 mcs source did not move downscope on the #2 monitor, but kept up with them. This quickly led to a situation in which the entire 6-man crew focussed all attention on the matter; the incident is still vivid in the minds of all the men, though their recollection for various details varies with the particular activities they were engaged in. Chase varied speed, to see if the relative bearing would change but nothing altered. After over a hundred miles of this, with the 2800 mcs source keeping pace with the aircraft, they were getting into the radar-coverage area of the Carswell AFB GCI (Ground Controlled Intercept) unit and Chase radioed that unit to ask if they showed any other air traffic near the RB-47. Carswell GCI immediately came back with the information that there was apparently another aircraft about 10 miles from them at their 2 o'clock position. (The RB-47 was unambiguously identifiable by its IFF signal; the "other aircraft" was seen by "skin paint" Only, i.e., by direct radar reflection rather than via an IFF transponder, Col. Chase explained.) This information, each of the men emphasized to me in one way or another, made them a bit uneasy for the first time. I asked McClure a question that the Colorado investigators either failed to ask or did not summarize in their Report. Was the signal in all respects comparable to that of a typical ground radar? McClure told me that this was what baffled him the most, then and now. All the radar signature characteristics, as read out on his ALA-5 pulse analyser, were completely normal -- it had a pulse repetition frequency and pulse width like a CPS-6B and even simulated a scan rate: But its intensity, McClure pointed out, was so strong that "it would have to had an antenna bigger than a bomber to put out that much signal." And now, the implications of the events over Gulfport took on new meaning. The upscope- downscope sweep of his #2 monitor lobe implied that this source, presuming it to be the same one now also being seen on ground radar at Carswell GCI, had flown a circle around the RB-47 at 30-35,000 ft altitude while the aircraft was doing about 500 kts. Shortly after Carswell GCI began following the two targets, RB-47 and unknown, still another significant action unfolded. McClure suddenly noted the lobe on the #2 monitor was beginning to go upscope, and almost simultaneously, Chase told me, GCI called out that the second airborne target was starting to move forward. Keep in mind that no visual target was observable here; after blinking out at the 12 o'clock position, following its lightning-like traverse across the nose of the aircraft, no light had been visible. The unknown now proceeded to move steadily around to the 12 o'clock position, followed all the while on the #2 monitor and on the GCI scope down at Carswell near Ft. Worth. As soon as the unknown reached the 12 o'clock position, Chase and McCoid suddenly saw a bright red glow "bigger than a house", Chase said, and lying dead ahead, precisely the bearing shown on the passive radar direction-finder that McClure was on and precisely the bearing now indicated on the GCI scope. _Three independent sensing systems_ were at this juncture giving seemingly consistent-indications: two pairs of human eyes, a ground radar, and a direction-finding radar receiver in the aircraft. One of the important points not settled by the Colorado investigations concerned the question of whether the unknown was ever painted on any radar set on the RB-47 itself. Some of the men thought the navigator had seen it on his set, others were unsure. I eventually located Maj. Hanley at Vandenberg and he informed me that all through the incident, which he remembered very well, he tried, unsuccessfully to pick up the unknown on his navigational radar (K-system). I shall not recount all of the details of his efforts and his comments, but only mention the end result of my two telephone interviews with him. The important question was what sort of effective range that set had. Hanley gave the pertinent information that it could just pick up a large tanker of the KC-97 type at about 4 miles range, when used in the "altitude- hold" mode, with antenna tipped up to maximum elevation. But both at the start of its involvement and during the object's swing into the 12 o'clock position, GCI showed it remaining close to 10 miles in range from the RB-47. Thus Hanley's inability to detect it on his K-system navigational radar in altitude hold only implies that whatever was out there had a radar cross-section that was less than about 16 times that of a KC-97 (roughly twice 4 miles, inverse 4th-power law), The unknown gave a GCI return that suggested a cross-section comparable to an ordinary aircraft, Chase told me, which is consistent with Hanley's non-detection of the object. The Condon Report gives the impression the navigator did detect it, but this is not correct. I have in my files many pages of typed notes on my interviews, and cannot fill in all of the intriguing details here. Suffice it to say that Chase then went to maximum allowable power, hoping to close with the unknown, but it just stayed ahead at about 10 miles as GCI kept telling them; it stayed as a bright red light dead ahead, and it kept painting as a bright lobe on the top of McClure's ALA-6 scope. By this time they were well into Texas still at about 35,000 ft and doing upwards of 500 knots, when Chase saw it begin to veer to the right and head between Dallas and Ft. Worth. Getting FAA clearance to alter his own flight plan and to make sure other jet traffic was out of his way, he followed its turn, and then realized he was beginning to close on it for the first time. Almost immediately GCI told him the unknown had stopped moving on the ground-radarscope. Chase and McCoid watched as they came almost up to it. Chase's recollections on this segment of the events were distinctly clearer than McCoid's. McCoid was, of course, sitting aft of Chase and had the poorer view; also he said he was doing fuel-reserve calculations in view of the excess fuel-use in their efforts to shake the unknown, and had to look up from the lighted cockpit to try to look out intermittently, while Chase in the forward seat was able to keep it in sight more nearly continuously. Chase told me that he'd estimate that it was just ahead of the RB-47 and definitely below them when it instantaneously blinked out, At that same moment McClure announced on the interphone that he'd lost the 2800 mcs signal, and GCI said it had disappeared from their scope. Such simultaneous loss of signal on what we can term three separate channels is most provocative, most puzzling. Putting the aircraft into a left turn (which Chase noted consumes about 15-20 miles at top speed), they kept looking back to try to see the light again. And, about halfway through the turn (by then the aircraft had reached the vicinity of Mineral Wells, Texas, Chase said), the men in the cockpit suddenly saw the bright red light flash on again, back along their previous flight path but distinctly lower, and simultaneously GCI got a target again and McClure started picking up a 2800 mcs signal at that bearing: (As I heard one after another of these men describe all this, I kept trying to imagine how it was possible that Condon could listen, at the October, 1967, plasma conference at the UFO Project, as Col. Chase recounted all this and shrug his shoulders and walk out.) Securing permission from Carswell GCI to undertake the decidedly non- standard maneuver of diving on the unknown, Chase put the RB-47 nose down and had reached about 20,000 ft, he recalls, when all of a sudden the light blinked out, GCI lost it on their scope, and McClure reported loss of signal on the #2 monitor: Three-channel consistency once more. Low on fuel, Chase climbed back up to 25,000 and headed north for Oklahoma. He barely had it on homeward course when McClure got a blip dead astern and Carswell radioed that they had a target once more trailing the RB- 47 at about 10 miles. Rear visibility from the topblisters of the RB-4 now precluded easy visual check, particularly if the unknown was then at lower altitude (Chase estimated that it might have been near 15,000 ft when he lost it in the dive). It followed them to southern Oklahoma and then disappeared. 2. Discussion: This incident is an especially good example of a UFO case in which observer credibility and reliability do not come into serious question, a case in which more than one (here three) channel of information figures in the over-all observations, and a case in which the reported phenomena appear to defy explanation in terms of either natural or technological phenomena. In the Condon Report, the important initial incident in which the unknown 2800 MC source appeared to orbit the RB-47 near Gulfport is omitted. In the Condon Report, the reader is given no hint that the object was with the aircraft for over 600 miles and for over an hour. No clear sequence of these events is spelled out, nor is the reader made aware of all of the "three- channel" simultaneous appearances or disappearances that were so emphatically stressed to me by both Chase and McClure in my interviews with them. But even despite those degrees of incompleteness, any reader of the account of this case in the Condon Report must wonder that an incident of this sort could be left as unexplained and yet ultimately treated, along with the other unexplained cases in that Report, as calling for no further scientific attention. Actually, various hypotheses (radar anomalies, mirage effects) are weighed in one part of the Condon Report where this case is discussed separately (pp. 136-138). But the suggestion made there that perhaps an inversion near 2 km altitude was responsible for the returns at the Carswell GCI unit is wholly untenable. In an Appendix, a very lengthy but non-relevant discussion of ground return from anomalous propagation appears; in fact, it is so unrelated to the actual circumstances of this case as to warrant no comment here. Chase's account emphasized that the GCI radar(s) had his aircraft and the unknown object on-scope for a total flight-distance of the order of several hundred miles, including a near overflight of the ground radar. With such wide variations in angles of incidence of the ground-radar beam on any inversion or duct, however intense, the possibility of anomalous propagation effects yielding a consistent pattern of spurious echo matching the reported movements and the appearances and disappearances of the target is infinitesimal. And the more so in view of the simultaneous appearances and disappearances on the ECM gear and via visible emissions from the unknown. To suggest, as is tentatively done on p. 138 that the "red glow" might have been a "mirage of Oklahoma City", when the pilot's description of the luminous source involves a wide range of viewing angles, including two instances when he was viewing it at quite large depression angles, is wholly unreasonable. Unfortunately, that kind of casual ad hoc hypothesizing with almost no attention to relevant physical considerations runs all through the case-discussions in the treatment of radar and optical cases in the Condon Report, frequently (though not in this instance) being made the basis of "explanations" that are merely absurd. On p. 265 of the Report, the question of whether this incident might be explained in terms of any "plasma effect" is considered but rejected. In the end, this case is conceded to be unexplained. No evidence that a report on this event reached Project Bluebook was found by the Colorado investigators. That may seem hard to believe for those who are under the impression that the Air Force has been diligently and exhaustively investigating UFO reports over the past 22 years. But to those who have examined more closely the actual levels of investigation, lack of a report on this incident is not so surprising. Other comparable instances could he cited, and still more where the military aircrews elected to spare themselves the bother of interrogation,by not even reporting events about as puzzling as those found in this RB-47 incident. But what is of greatest present interest is the point that here we have a well-reported, multi-channel, multiple-witness UFO report, coming in fact from within the Air Force itself, investigated by the Condon Report team, conceded to be unexplained, and yet it is, in final analysis, ignored by Dr. Condon. In no section of the Report specifically written by the principal investigator does he even allude to this intriguing case. My question is how such events can be written off as demanding no further scientific study. To me, such cases seem to cry out for the most intensive scientific study -- and the more so because they are actually so much more numerous than the scientific community yet realizes. There is a scientific mystery here that is being ignored and shoved under the rug; the strongest and most unjustified shove has come from the Condon Report. "unjustified" because that Report itself contains so many scientifically puzzling unexplained cases (approximately 30 out of 90 cases considered) that it is extremely difficult to understand how its principal investigator could have construed the contents of the Report as supporting a view that UFO studies should be terminated. Case 2. Lakenheath and Bentwaters RAF/USAF units; England, August 13-14, 1956. Brief summary: Observations of unidentified objects by USAF and RAF personnel, extending over 5 hours, and involving ground-radar, airborne-radar, ground visual and airborne-visual sightings of high-speed unconventionally maneuvering obJects in the vicinity of two RAF stations at night. It is Case 2 in the Condon Report and is there conceded to be unexplained. 1. Introduction: This case will illustrate, in significant ways, the following points: a) It illustrates the fact that many scientifically intriguing UFO reports have lain in USAF/Bluebook files for years without knowledge thereof by the scientific community. b) It represents a large subset of UFO cases in which all of the observations stemmed from military sources and which, had there been serious and competent scientific interest operating in Project Bluebook, could have been very thoroughly investigated while the information was fresh. It also illustrates the point that the actual levels of investigation were entirely inadequate in even as unexplainable and involved cases as this one. c) It illustrates the uncomfortably incomplete and internally inconsistent features that one encounters in almost every report of its kind in the USAF/Bluebook files at Wright-Patterson AFB, features attesting to the dearth of scientific competence in the Air Force UFO investigations over the past 20 years. d) It illustrates, when the original files are carefully studied and compared with the discussion thereof in the Condon Report, shortcomings in presentation and critique given many cases in the Condon Report. e) Finally, I believe it illustrates an example of those cases conceded to be unexplainable by the Condon Report that argue need for much more extensive and more thorough scientific investigation of the UFO problem, a need negated in the Condon Report and in the Academy endorsement thereof. My discussion of this case will be based upon the 30-page Bluebook case- file, plus certain other information presented on it in the Condon Report. This "Lakenheath case" was not known outside of USAF circles prior to publication of the Condon Report. None of the names of military personnel involved are given in the Condon Report. (Witness names, dates, and locales are deleted from all of the main group of cases in that Report, seriously impeding independent scientific check of case materials.) I secured copies of the case-file from Bluebook, but all names of military personnel involved in the incident were cut out of the Xerox copies prior to releasing the material to me. Hence I have been unable to interview personally the key witnesses. However, there is no indication that anyone on the colorado Project did any personal interviews, either; so it would appear I have had access to the same basic data used in the Condon Report's treatment of this extremely interesting case. For no Justified reason, the Condon Report not only deletes witness names,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 01/04 - 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 02:58:08 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:55:59 -0500 Subject: 01/04 - 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations Note: Any Changes? AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE, 134th MEETING Subject Science in Default: 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations Author James E. McDonald, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences Address The University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona, 85721 Time 9:00 a.m., December 27, 1969 Place Sheraton Plaza Ballroom Program General Symposium, Unidentified Flying Objects Convention Address Sheraton Plaza Hotel RELEASE TIME A.M,'s December 28 No scientifically adequate investigation of the UFO problem has been carried out during the entire 22 years that have now passed since the first extensive wave of sightings of unidentified aerial objects in the summer of 1947. Despite continued public interest, and despite frequent expressions of public concern, only quite superficial examinations of the steadily growing body of unexplained UFO reports from credible witnesses have been conducted in this country or abroad. The latter point is highly relevant, since all evidence now points to the fact that UFO sightings exhibit similar characteristics throughout the world. Charging inadequacy of all past UFO investigations, I speak not only from a background of close study of the past investigations, but also from a background of three years of rather detailed personal research, involving interviews with over five hundred witnesses in selected UFO cases, chiefly in the U. S. In my opinion, the UFO problem, far from being the nonsense problem that it has often been labeled by many scientists, constitutes a problem of extraordinary scientific interest. The grave difficulty with essentially all past UFO studies has been that they were either devoid of any substantial scientific content, or else have lost their way amidst the relatively large noise-content that tends to obscure the real signal in the UFO reports. The presence of a percentually large number of reports of misidentified natural or technological phenomena (planets, meteors, and aircraft, above all) is not surprising, given all the circumstances surrounding the UFO problem. Yet such understandable and usually easily recognized instances of misidentification have all too often been seized upon as a sufficient explanation for all UFO reports, while the residue of far more significant reports (numbering now of order one thousand) are ignored. I believe science is in default for having failed to mount any truly adequate studies of this problem, a problem that has aroused such strong and widespread public concern during the past two decades. Unfortunately, the present climate of thinking, above all since release of the latest of a long series of inadequate studies, namely, that conducted under the direction of Dr. E. U. Condon at the University of Colorado, will make it very difficult to secure any new and more thorough investigations, yet my own examination of the problem forces me to call for just such new studies. I am enough of a realist to sense that, unless the present AAAS UFO Symposium succeeds in making the scientific community aware of the seriousness of the UFO problem, little immediate response to any call for new investigation is likely to appear. In fact, the over-all public and scientific response to the UFO phenomena is itself a matter of substantial scientific interest, above all in its social-psychological aspects. Prior to my own investigations, I would never have imagined the wide spread reluctance to report an unusual and seemingly inexplicable event, yet that reluctance, and the attendant reluctance of scientists to exhibit serious interest in the phenomena in question, are quite general. One regrettable result is the fact that the most credible of UFO witnesses are often those most reluctant to come forward with a report of the event they have witnessed. A second regrettable result is that only a very small number of scientists have taken the time and trouble to search out the nearly puzzling reports that tend to be diluted out by the much larger number of trivial and non-significant UFO reports. The net result is that there still exists no general scientific recognition of the scope and nature of the UFO problem. * * * Within the federal government official responsibility for UFO investigations has rested with the Air Force since early 1948. Unidentified aerial objects quite naturally fall within the area of Air Force concern, so this assignment of responsibility was basically reasonable, However, once it became clear (early 1949) that UFO reports did not seem to involve advanced aircraft of some hostile foreign power, Air Force interest subsided to relatively low levels, marked, however, by occasional temporary resurgence of interest following large waves of UFO reports, such as that of 1952, or 1957, or 1965. A most unfortunate pattern of press reporting developed by about 1953, in which the Air Force would assert that they had found no evidence of anything "defying explanation in terms of present-day science and technology" in their growing files of UFO reports. These statements to the public would have done little harm had they not been coupled systematically to press statements asserting that "the best scientific facilities available to the U. S. Air Force" had been and were being brought to bear on the UFO question. The assurances that substantial scientific competence was involved in Air Force UFO investigations have, I submit, had seriously deleterious scientific effects. Scientists who might otherwise have done enough checking to see that a substantial scientific puzzle lay in the UFO area were misled by these assurances into thinking that capable scientists had already done adequate study and found nothing. My own extensive checks have revealed so slight a total amount of scientific competence in two decades of Air Force-supported investigations that I can only regard the repeated asseverations of solid scientific study of the UFO . problem as the single most serious obstacle that the Air Force has put in the way of progress towards elucidation of the matter I do not believe, let me stress, that this has been part of some top- secret coverup of extensive investigations by Air Force or security agencies; I have found no substantial basis for accepting that theory of why the Air Force has so long failed to respond appropriately to the many significant and scientifically intriguing UFO reports coming from within its own ranks. Briefly, I see grand foulup but not grand coverup. Although numerous instances could be cited wherein Air Force spokesmen failed to release anything like complete details of UFO reports, and although this has had the regrettable consequence of denying scientists at large even a dim notion of the almost incredible nature of some of the more impressive Air Force-related UFO reports, I still feel that the most grievous fault of 22 years of Air Force handling of the UFO problem has consisted of their repeated public assertions that they had substantial scientific competence on the job. Close examination of the level of investigation and the level of scientific analysis involved in Project Sign (1948-9), Project Grudge (1949- 52), and Project Bluebook (1953 to date), reveals that these were, viewed scientifically, almost meaning less investigations. Even during occasional periods (e.g., 1952) characterized by fairly active investigation of UFO cases, there was still such slight scientific expertise involved that there was never any real chance that the puzzling phenomena encountered in the most significant UFO cases would be elucidated. Furthermore, the panels, consultants, contractual studies, etc., that the Air Force has had working on the UFO problem over the past 22 years have, with essentially no exception, brought almost negligible scientific scrutiny into the picture. Illustrative examples will be given. The Condon Report, released in January, 1968, after about two years of Air Force-supported study is, in my opinion, quite inadequate. The sheer bulk of the Report, and the inclusion of much that can only be viewed as "scientific padding", cannot conceal from anyone who studies it closely the salient point that it represents an examination of only a tiny fraction of the most puzzling UFO reports of the past two decades, and that its level of scientific argumentation is wholly unsatisfactory. Furthermore, of the roughly 90 cases that it specifically confronts, over 30 are conceded to be unexplained. With so large a fraction of unexplained cases (out of a sample that is by no means limited only to the truly puzzling cases, but includes an obJectionably large number of obviously trivial cases), it is far from clear how Dr. Condon felt justified in concluding that the study indicated "that further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby. " I shall cite a number of specific examples of cases from the Condon Report which I regard as entirely inadequately investigated and reported. One at Kirtland AFB, November 4, 1957, involved observations of a wingless egg- shaped object that was observed hovering about a minute over the field prior to departure at a climb rate which was described to me as faster than that of any known jets, then or now. The principal witnesses in this case were precisely the type of witnesses whose accounts warrant closest attention, since they were CAA tower observers who watched the UFO from the CAA tower with binoculars. Yet, when I located these two men in the course of my own check of cases from the Condon Report, I found that neither of them had even been contacted by members of the University of Colorado project! Both men were fully satisfied that they had been viewing a device with performance characteristics well beyond any thing in present or foreseeable aeronautical technology. The two men gave me descriptions that were mutually consistent and that fit closely the testimony given on Nov. 6, 1957, when they were interrogated by an Air Force investigator. The Condon Report attempts to explain this case as a light-aircraft that lost its way, came into the field area, and then left. This kind of explanation runs through the whole Condon Report, yet is wholly incapable of explaining the details of sightings such as that of the Kirtland AFB incident. Other illustrative instances in which the investigations summarized in the Condon Report exhibit glaring deficiencies will be cited. I suggest that there are enough significant unexplainable UFO reports just within the Condon Report itself to document the need for a greatly increased level of scientific study of UFOs. That a panel of the National Academy of Sciences could endorse this study is to me disturbing. I find no evidence that the Academy panel did any independent checking of its own; and none of that 11-man panel had any significant prior investigative experience in this area, to my knowledge. I believe that this sort of Academy endorsement must be criticized; it hurts science in the long run, and I fear that this particular instance will ultimately prove an embarrassment to the National Academy of Sciences. The Condon Report and its Academy endorsement have exerted a highly negative influence on clarification of the long-standing UFO problem; so much, in fact, that it seems almost pointless to now call for new and more extensive UFO investigations. Yet the latter are precisely what are needed to bring out into full light of scientific inquiry a phenomenon that could well constitute one of the greatest scientific problems of our times. * * * Some examples of UFO cases conceded to be unexplainable in the Condon Report and containing features of particularly strong scientific interest: Utica, N.Y., 6/23/55; Lakenheath, England, 8/13/56; Jackson, Ala., 11/14/56; Norfolk, Va., 8/30/57; RB-47 case, 9/19/57; Beverly Mass., 4/22/66; Donnybrook, N.D., 8/19/66; Haynesville, La., 12/30/66; Joplin, Mo., 1/13/67; Colorado Springs, Colo., 5/13/67. Some examples of UFO cases considered explained in the Condon Report for which I would take strong exception to the argumentation presented and would regard as both unexplained and of strong scientific interest: Flagstaff, Ariz., 5/20/50; Washington, D. C., 7/19/52; Bellefontaine, O., 8/1/52; Haneda AFB, Japan, 8/5/52; Gulf of Mexico, 12/6/52; Odessa, Wash., 12/10/52; Continental Divide, N.M., 1/26/53; Seven Isles, Quebec, 6/29/54; Niagara Falls, N.Y., 7/25/57; Kirtland AFB, N.M., 11/4/57; Gulf of Mexico, 11/5/57; Peru, 12/30/66; Holloman AFB, 3/2/67; Kincheloe AFB, 9/11/67; Vandenberg AFB, 10/6/67; Milledgeville, Ga., 10/20/67. SCIENCE IN DEFAULT: 22 YEARS OF INADEQUATE UFO INVESTIGATIONS James E. McDonald, Institute of Atmospheric Physics University of Arizona, Tucson (Material presented at the Symposium on UFOs, 134th Meeting, AAAS, Boston, Dec, 27, 1969) *** ILLUSTRATIVE CASES The following treats in detail the four principal UFO cases referred to in my Symposium talk. They are presented as specific illustrations of what I regard as serious shortcomings of case-investigations in the Condon Report and in the 1947-69 Air Force UFO program. The four cases used as illustrations are the following : 1. RB-47 case, Gulf Coast area, Sept. 19, 1957 2. Lakenheath RAF Station, England, August 13-14, 1956 3. Haneda AFB, Japan, August 5-6, 1952 4. Kirtland AFB, New Mexico, Nov. 4, 1957 My principal conclusions are that scientific inadequacies in past years of UFO investigations by Air Force Project Bluebook have _not_ been remedied through publication of the Condon Report, and that there remain scientifically very important unsolved problems with respect to UFOs. The investigative and evaluative deficiencies illustrated in the four cases examined in detail are paralleled by equally serious shortcomings in many other cases in the sample of about 90 UFO cases treated in the Condon Report. Endorsement of the conclusions of the Condon Report by the National Academy of Sciences appears to have been based on entirely superficial examination of the Report and the cases treated therein. Further study, conducted on a much more sound scientific level are needed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SOME ILLUSTRATIVE UFO CASES - J. E. McDonald (AAAS UFO Symposium, Boston, Dec. 27, 1969.) Case 1. USAF RB-47, Gulf Coast area, September 19-20, 1957. Brief summary: An Air Force RB-47, equipped with ECM (Electronic Countermeasures) gear, manned by six officers, was followed over a total distance in excess of 600 miles and for a time period of more than an hour, as it flew from near Gulfport, Miss., through Louisiana and Texas, and into southern Oklahoma. The unidentified object was, at various times, seen visually by the cockpit crew (as an intense white or red light), followed by ground-radar, and detected on ECM monitoring gear aboard the RB-47. Simultaneous appearances and disappearances on all three of those physically distinct "channels" mark this UFO case as especially intriguing from a scientific viewpoint. The incident is described as Case 5 in the Condon Report and is conceded to be unexplained. The full details, however, are not presented in that Report. 1. Summary of the Case: The case is long and involved and filled with well-attested phenomena that defy easy explanation in terms of present-day science and technology. The RB-47 was flying out of Forbes AFB, Topeka, on a composite mission including gunnery exercises over the Texas-Gulf area, navigation exercises over the open Gulf, and ECM exercises in the return trip across the south-central U.S. This was an RB-47 carrying a six-man crew, of whom three were electronic warfare officers manning ECM (Electronic counter-measures) gear in the aft portion of the aircraft. One of the extremely interesting aspects of this case is that electromagnetic signals of distinctly radar-like character appeared definitely to be emitted by the UFO, yet it exhibited performance characteristics that seem to rule out categorically its having been any conventional or secret aircraft. I have discussed the incident with all six officers of the crew: Lewis D. Chase, pilot, Spokane, Wash. James H. McCoid, copilot, Offutt AFB Thomas H. Hanley, navigator, Vandenberg AFB John J. Provenzano, No. 1 monitor, Wichita Frank B. McClure, No. 2 monitor, Offutt AFB Walter A. Tuchscherer, No. 3 monitor, Topeka Chase was a Major at the time; I failed to ask for information on 1957 ranks of the others. McClure and Hanley are currently Majors, so might have been Captains or Lieutenants in 1957. All were experienced men at the time. Condon Project investigators only talked with Chase, McCoid, and McClure, I ascertained. In my checking it proved necessary to telephone several of them more than once to pin down key points; nevertheless the total case is so complex that I would assume that there are still salient points not clarified either by the Colorado investigators or by myself. Unfortunately, there appears to be no way, at present to locate the personnel involved in ground- radar observations that are a very important part of the whole case. I shall discuss that point below. This flight occurred in September, 1957, just prior to the crew's reassignment to a European base. On questioning by Colorado investigators, flight logs were consulted, and based on the recollection that this flight was within a short time of departure from Forces to Germany, (plus the requirement that the date match a flight of the known type and geography) the 9/19/57 date seems to have emerged. The uncertainty as to whether it was early on the 19th or early on the 20th, cited above is a point of confusion I had not noted until preparing the present notes. Hence I am unable to add any clarification, at the moment; in this matter of the date confusion found in Thayer's discussion of the case (1, pp. 136-138). I shall try to check that in the near future. For the present, it does not vitiate case-discussion in any significant way. The incident is most inadequately described in the Condon Report. The reader is left with the general notion that the important parts occurred near Ft. Worth, an impression strengthened by the fact that both Crow and Thayer discuss meteorological data only for that area. One is also left with no clear impression of the duration, which was actually over an hour. The incident involved an unknown airborne object that stayed with the RB-47 for over 600 miles. In case after case in the Condon Report, close checking reveals that quite significant features of the cases have been glossed over, or omitted, or in some instances seriously misrepresented. I submit that to fail to inform the reader that this particular case spans a total distance-range of some 600 miles and lasted well over an hour is an omission difficult to justify. From my nine separate interviews with the six crew members, I assembled a picture of the events that makes it even more puzzling than it seems on reading the Condon Report -- and even the latter account is puzzling enough. Just as the aircraft crossed the Mississippi coast near Gulfport, McClure, manning the #2 monitor, detected a signal near their 5 o'clock position (aft of the starboard beam). It looked to him like a legitimate ground-radar signal, but corresponded to a position out in the Gulf. This is the actual beginning of the complete incident; but before proceeding with details it is necessary to make quite clear what kind of equipment we shall be talking about as we follow McClure's successive observations. Under conditions of war, bombing aircraft entering hostile territory can be assisted in their penetrations if any of a variety of electronic countermeasures (ECM techniques as they are collectively termed) are brought into action against ground-based enemy radar units. The initial step in all ECM operations is, necessarily, that of detecting the enemy radar and quantitatively identifying a number of relevant features of the radar system (carrier frequency, pulse repetition frequency, scan rate, pulse width) and, above all, its bearing relative to the aircraft heading. The latter task is particularly ample in principle, calling only for direction-finding antennas which pick up the enemy signal and display on a monitor scope inside the reconnaissance aircraft a blip or lobe that paints in the relative bearing from which the signal is coming. The ECM gear used in RB-47's in 1957 is not now classified; the #2 monitor that McClure was on, he and the others pointed out, involved an ALA-6 direction-finder with back-to-back antennas in a housing on the undersurface of the RB-47 near the rear, spun at either 150 or 300 rpm as it scanned in azimuth. Inside the aircraft, its signals were processed in an APR-9 radar receiver and an ALA-5 pulse analyser. All later references to the #2 monitor imply that system. The #1 monitor employed an APD-4 direction finding system, with a pair of antennas permanently mounted on either wing tip. Provenzano was on the #1 monitor. Tuchscherer was on the #3 monitor, whose specifications I did not ascertain because I could find no indication that it was involved in the observations. Returning now to the initial features of the UFO episode, McClure at first thought he had 180-degree ambiguity in his scope, i.e., that the signal whose lobe painted at his 5 o'clock position was actually coming in from the 11 o'clock position perhaps from some ground radar in Louisiana. This suspicion, he told me, was temporarily strengthened as he became aware that the lobe was moving upscope. (It is important here and in features of the case cited below to understand how a fixed ground-radar paints on the ECM monitor scope as the reconnaissance aircraft flies toward its general direction: Suppose the ground radar is, at some instant, located at the 1 o'clock position relative to the moving aircraft, i.e., slightly off the starboard bow. As the aircraft flies along, the relative bearing steadily changes, so that the fixed ground unit is "seen" successively at the 2 o'clock, the 3 o'clock, and the 4 o'clock positions, etc. The lobe paints on the monitor scope at these successive relative azimuths, the 12 o'clock position being at the top of the scope, 3 o'clock at the right, etc. Thus any legitimate signal from a fixed ground radar must move downscope, excluding the special cases in which the radar is dead ahead or dead astern. Note carefully that we deal here only with direction finding gear. Range is unknown; we are not here speaking of an airborne radar set, just a radar-frequency direction-finder. In practice, range is obtained by triangulation computations based on successive fixes and known aircraft speed.) As the lobe continued moving _upscope_, McClure said the strength of the incoming signal and its pulse characteristics all tended to confirm that this was some ground unit being painted with 180-degree ambiguity for some unknown electronic reason. It was at 2800 megacycles, a common frequency for S-band search radars. However, after the lobe swung dead ahead, his earlier hypothesis had to be abandoned for it continued swinging over to the 11 o'clock position and continued downscope on the port side. Clearly, no 180-degree ambiguity was capable of accounting for this. Curiously, however, this was so anomalous that McClure did not take it very seriously and did not at that juncture mention it to the cockpit crew nor to his colleagues on the other two monitors. This upscope-downscope "orbit" of the unknown was seen only on the ALA-6, as far as I could establish. Had nothing else occurred, this first and very significant portion of the whole episode would almost certainly have been for gotten by McClure. The signal faded as the RB-47 headed northward to the scheduled turning point over Jackson, Miss. The mission called for simulated detection and ECM operations against Air Force ground radar units all along this part of the flight plan, but other developments intervened. Shortly after making their turn westward over Jackson, Miss., Chase noted what he thought at first were the landing lights of some other jet coming in from near his 11 o'clock position, at roughly the RB-47's altitude. But no running lights were discernible and it was a single very bright white light, closing fast. He had just alerted the rest of the crew to be ready for sudden evasive maneuvers, when he and McCoid saw the light almost instantaneously change directions and rush across from left to right at an angular velocity that Chase told me he'd never seen matched in his flight experience. The light went from their 11 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position with great rapidity, and then blinked out. Immediately after that, Chase and McCoid began talking about it on the interphone and McClure, recalling the unusual 2800 megacycle signal that he had seen over Gulfport now mentioned that peculiar incident for the first time to Chase and McCoid. It occurred to him at that point to set his #2 monitor to scan at 2800 mcs. On the first scan, McClure told me, he got a strong 2800 mcs signal from their 2 o'clock position, the bearing on which the luminous unknown object had blinked out moments earlier. Provenzano told me that right after that they had checked out the #2 monitor on valid ground radar stations to be sure it was not malfunctioning and it appeared to be in perfect order. He then checked on his #1 monitor and also got a signal from the same bearing. There remained, of course, the possibility that just by chance, this signal was from a real radar down on the ground and off in that direction. But as the minutes went by, and the aircraft continued westward at about 500 kts. the relative bearing of the 2800 mcs source did not move downscope on the #2 monitor, but kept up with them. This quickly led to a situation in which the entire 6-man crew focussed all attention on the matter; the incident is still vivid in the minds of all the men, though their recollection for various details varies with the particular activities they were engaged in. Chase varied speed, to see if the relative bearing would change but nothing altered. After over a hundred miles of this, with the 2800 mcs source keeping pace with the aircraft, they were getting into the radar-coverage area of the Carswell AFB GCI (Ground Controlled Intercept) unit and Chase radioed that unit to ask if they showed any other air traffic near the RB-47. Carswell GCI immediately came back with the information that there was apparently another aircraft about 10 miles from them at their 2 o'clock position. (The RB-47 was unambiguously identifiable by its IFF signal; the "other aircraft" was seen by "skin paint" Only, i.e., by direct radar reflection rather than via an IFF transponder, Col. Chase explained.) This information, each of the men emphasized to me in one way or another, made them a bit uneasy for the first time. I asked McClure a question that the Colorado investigators either failed to ask or did not summarize in their Report. Was the signal in all respects comparable to that of a typical ground radar? McClure told me that this was what baffled him the most, then and now. All the radar signature characteristics, as read out on his ALA-5 pulse analyser, were completely normal -- it had a pulse repetition frequency and pulse width like a CPS-6B and even simulated a scan rate: But its intensity, McClure pointed out, was so strong that "it would have to had an antenna bigger than a bomber to put out that much signal." And now, the implications of the events over Gulfport took on new meaning. The upscope- downscope sweep of his #2 monitor lobe implied that this source, presuming it to be the same one now also being seen on ground radar at Carswell GCI, had flown a circle around the RB-47 at 30-35,000 ft altitude while the aircraft was doing about 500 kts. Shortly after Carswell GCI began following the two targets, RB-47 and unknown, still another significant action unfolded. McClure suddenly noted the lobe on the #2 monitor was beginning to go upscope, and almost simultaneously, Chase told me, GCI called out that the second airborne target was starting to move forward. Keep in mind that no visual target was observable here; after blinking out at the 12 o'clock position, following its lightning-like traverse across the nose of the aircraft, no light had been visible. The unknown now proceeded to move steadily around to the 12 o'clock position, followed all the while on the #2 monitor and on the GCI scope down at Carswell near Ft. Worth. As soon as the unknown reached the 12 o'clock position, Chase and McCoid suddenly saw a bright red glow "bigger than a house", Chase said, and lying dead ahead, precisely the bearing shown on the passive radar direction-finder that McClure was on and precisely the bearing now indicated on the GCI scope. _Three independent sensing systems_ were at this juncture giving seemingly consistent-indications: two pairs of human eyes, a ground radar, and a direction-finding radar receiver in the aircraft. One of the important points not settled by the Colorado investigations concerned the question of whether the unknown was ever painted on any radar set on the RB-47 itself. Some of the men thought the navigator had seen it on his set, others were unsure. I eventually located Maj. Hanley at Vandenberg and he informed me that all through the incident, which he remembered very well, he tried, unsuccessfully to pick up the unknown on his navigational radar (K-system). I shall not recount all of the details of his efforts and his comments, but only mention the end result of my two telephone interviews with him. The important question was what sort of effective range that set had. Hanley gave the pertinent information that it could just pick up a large tanker of the KC-97 type at about 4 miles range, when used in the "altitude- hold" mode, with antenna tipped up to maximum elevation. But both at the start of its involvement and during the object's swing into the 12 o'clock position, GCI showed it remaining close to 10 miles in range from the RB-47. Thus Hanley's inability to detect it on his K-system navigational radar in altitude hold only implies that whatever was out there had a radar cross-section that was less than about 16 times that of a KC-97 (roughly twice 4 miles, inverse 4th-power law), The unknown gave a GCI return that suggested a cross-section comparable to an ordinary aircraft, Chase told me, which is consistent with Hanley's non-detection of the object. The Condon Report gives the impression the navigator did detect it, but this is not correct. I have in my files many pages of typed notes on my interviews, and cannot fill in all of the intriguing details here. Suffice it to say that Chase then went to maximum allowable power, hoping to close with the unknown, but it just stayed ahead at about 10 miles as GCI kept telling them; it stayed as a bright red light dead ahead, and it kept painting as a bright lobe on the top of McClure's ALA-6 scope. By this time they were well into Texas still at about 35,000 ft and doing upwards of 500 knots, when Chase saw it begin to veer to the right and head between Dallas and Ft. Worth. Getting FAA clearance to alter his own flight plan and to make sure other jet traffic was out of his way, he followed its turn, and then realized he was beginning to close on it for the first time. Almost immediately GCI told him the unknown had stopped moving on the ground-radarscope. Chase and McCoid watched as they came almost up to it. Chase's recollections on this segment of the events were distinctly clearer than McCoid's. McCoid was, of course, sitting aft of Chase and had the poorer view; also he said he was doing fuel-reserve calculations in view of the excess fuel-use in their efforts to shake the unknown, and had to look up from the lighted cockpit to try to look out intermittently, while Chase in the forward seat was able to keep it in sight more nearly continuously. Chase told me that he'd estimate that it was just ahead of the RB-47 and definitely below them when it instantaneously blinked out, At that same moment McClure announced on the interphone that he'd lost the 2800 mcs signal, and GCI said it had disappeared from their scope. Such simultaneous loss of signal on what we can term three separate channels is most provocative, most puzzling. Putting the aircraft into a left turn (which Chase noted consumes about 15-20 miles at top speed), they kept looking back to try to see the light again. And, about halfway through the turn (by then the aircraft had reached the vicinity of Mineral Wells, Texas, Chase said), the men in the cockpit suddenly saw the bright red light flash on again, back along their previous flight path but distinctly lower, and simultaneously GCI got a target again and McClure started picking up a 2800 mcs signal at that bearing: (As I heard one after another of these men describe all this, I kept trying to imagine how it was possible that Condon could listen, at the October, 1967, plasma conference at the UFO Project, as Col. Chase recounted all this and shrug his shoulders and walk out.) Securing permission from Carswell GCI to undertake the decidedly non- standard maneuver of diving on the unknown, Chase put the RB-47 nose down and had reached about 20,000 ft, he recalls, when all of a sudden the light blinked out, GCI lost it on their scope, and McClure reported loss of signal on the #2 monitor: Three-channel consistency once more. Low on fuel, Chase climbed back up to 25,000 and headed north for Oklahoma. He barely had it on homeward course when McClure got a blip dead astern and Carswell radioed that they had a target once more trailing the RB- 47 at about 10 miles. Rear visibility from the topblisters of the RB-4 now precluded easy visual check, particularly if the unknown was then at lower altitude (Chase estimated that it might have been near 15,000 ft when he lost it in the dive). It followed them to southern Oklahoma and then disappeared. 2. Discussion: This incident is an especially good example of a UFO case in which observer credibility and reliability do not come into serious question, a case in which more than one (here three) channel of information figures in the over-all observations, and a case in which the reported phenomena appear to defy explanation in terms of either natural or technological phenomena. In the Condon Report, the important initial incident in which the unknown 2800 MC source appeared to orbit the RB-47 near Gulfport is omitted. In the Condon Report, the reader is given no hint that the object was with the aircraft for over 600 miles and for over an hour. No clear sequence of these events is spelled out, nor is the reader made aware of all of the "three- channel" simultaneous appearances or disappearances that were so emphatically stressed to me by both Chase and McClure in my interviews with them. But even despite those degrees of incompleteness, any reader of the account of this case in the Condon Report must wonder that an incident of this sort could be left as unexplained and yet ultimately treated, along with the other unexplained cases in that Report, as calling for no further scientific attention. Actually, various hypotheses (radar anomalies, mirage effects) are weighed in one part of the Condon Report where this case is discussed separately (pp. 136-138). But the suggestion made there that perhaps an inversion near 2 km altitude was responsible for the returns at the Carswell GCI unit is wholly untenable. In an Appendix, a very lengthy but non-relevant discussion of ground return from anomalous propagation appears; in fact, it is so unrelated to the actual circumstances of this case as to warrant no comment here. Chase's account emphasized that the GCI radar(s) had his aircraft and the unknown object on-scope for a total flight-distance of the order of several hundred miles, including a near overflight of the ground radar. With such wide variations in angles of incidence of the ground-radar beam on any inversion or duct, however intense, the possibility of anomalous propagation effects yielding a consistent pattern of spurious echo matching the reported movements and the appearances and disappearances of the target is infinitesimal. And the more so in view of the simultaneous appearances and disappearances on the ECM gear and via visible emissions from the unknown. To suggest, as is tentatively done on p. 138 that the "red glow" might have been a "mirage of Oklahoma City", when the pilot's description of the luminous source involves a wide range of viewing angles, including two instances when he was viewing it at quite large depression angles, is wholly unreasonable. Unfortunately, that kind of casual ad hoc hypothesizing with almost no attention to relevant physical considerations runs all through the case-discussions in the treatment of radar and optical cases in the Condon Report, frequently (though not in this instance) being made the basis of "explanations" that are merely absurd. On p. 265 of the Report, the question of whether this incident might be explained in terms of any "plasma effect" is considered but rejected. In the end, this case is conceded to be unexplained. No evidence that a report on this event reached Project Bluebook was found by the Colorado investigators. That may seem hard to believe for those who are under the impression that the Air Force has been diligently and exhaustively investigating UFO reports over the past 22 years. But to those who have examined more closely the actual levels of investigation, lack of a report on this incident is not so surprising. Other comparable instances could he cited, and still more where the military aircrews elected to spare themselves the bother of interrogation,by not even reporting events about as puzzling as those found in this RB-47 incident. But what is of greatest present interest is the point that here we have a well-reported, multi-channel, multiple-witness UFO report, coming in fact from within the Air Force itself, investigated by the Condon Report team, conceded to be unexplained, and yet it is, in final analysis, ignored by Dr. Condon. In no section of the Report specifically written by the principal investigator does he even allude to this intriguing case. My question is how such events can be written off as demanding no further scientific study. To me, such cases seem to cry out for the most intensive scientific study -- and the more so because they are actually so much more numerous than the scientific community yet realizes. There is a scientific mystery here that is being ignored and shoved under the rug; the strongest and most unjustified shove has come from the Condon Report. "unjustified" because that Report itself contains so many scientifically puzzling unexplained cases (approximately 30 out of 90 cases considered) that it is extremely difficult to understand how its principal investigator could have construed the contents of the Report as supporting a view that UFO studies should be terminated. Case 2. Lakenheath and Bentwaters RAF/USAF units; England, August 13-14, 1956. Brief summary: Observations of unidentified objects by USAF and RAF personnel, extending over 5 hours, and involving ground-radar, airborne-radar, ground visual and airborne-visual sightings of high-speed unconventionally maneuvering obJects in the vicinity of two RAF stations at night. It is Case 2 in the Condon Report and is there conceded to be unexplained. 1. Introduction: This case will illustrate, in significant ways, the following points: a) It illustrates the fact that many scientifically intriguing UFO reports have lain in USAF/Bluebook files for years without knowledge thereof by the scientific community. b) It represents a large subset of UFO cases in which all of the observations stemmed from military sources and which, had there been serious and competent scientific interest operating in Project Bluebook, could have been very thoroughly investigated while the information was fresh. It also illustrates the point that the actual levels of investigation were entirely inadequate in even as unexplainable and involved cases as this one. c) It illustrates the uncomfortably incomplete and internally inconsistent features that one encounters in almost every report of its kind in the USAF/Bluebook files at Wright-Patterson AFB, features attesting to the dearth of scientific competence in the Air Force UFO investigations over the past 20 years. d) It illustrates, when the original files are carefully studied and compared with the discussion thereof in the Condon Report, shortcomings in presentation and critique given many cases in the Condon Report. e) Finally, I believe it illustrates an example of those cases conceded to be unexplainable by the Condon Report that argue need for much more extensive and more thorough scientific investigation of the UFO problem, a need negated in the Condon Report and in the Academy endorsement thereof. My discussion of this case will be based upon the 30-page Bluebook case- file, plus certain other information presented on it in the Condon Report. This "Lakenheath case" was not known outside of USAF circles prior to publication of the Condon Report. None of the names of military personnel involved are given in the Condon Report. (Witness names, dates, and locales are deleted from all of the main group of cases in that Report, seriously impeding independent scientific check of case materials.) I secured copies of the case-file from Bluebook, but all names of military personnel involved in the incident were cut out of the Xerox copies prior to releasing the material to me. Hence I have been unable to interview personally the key witnesses. However, there is no indication that anyone on the colorado Project did any personal interviews, either; so it would appear I have had access to the same basic data used in the Condon Report's treatment of this extremely interesting case. For no Justified reason, the Condon Report not only deletes witness names,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 20 03/04 - 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 02:58:08 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:58:08 -0500 Subject: 03/04 - 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations a time of some minutes. No ghost-return or multiple-scatter hypothesis can explain such an event. I believe that the cited sequence of extremely baffling events, involving so many observers and so many distinct observing channels, and exhibiting such unconventional features, should have led to the most intensive Air Force inquiries. But I would have to say precisely the same about dozens of other inexplicable Air Force-related UFO incidents reported to Bluebook since 1947. What the above illustrative case shows all too well is that highly unusual events have been occurring under circumstances where any organization with even passing scientific curiosity should have responded vigorously, yet the Air Force UFO program has repeatedly exhibited just as little response as I have noted in the above 1956 Lakenheath incident. The Air Force UFO program, contrary to the impression held by most scientists here and abroad, has been an exceedingly superficial and generally quite incompetent program. Repeated suggestions from Air Force press offices, to the effect that "the best scientific talents available to the U.S. Air Force" have been brought to bear on the UFO question are so far from the truth as to be almost laughable, yet those suggestions have served to mislead the scientific community, here and abroad, into thinking that careful investigations were yielding solid conclusions to the effect that the UFO problem was a nonsense problem. The Air Force has given us all the impression that its UFO reports involved only misidentified phenomena of conventional sorts. That, I submit, is far from correct, and the Air Force has not responsibly discharged its obligations to the public in conveying so gross a misimpression for twenty years. I charge incompetence, not conspiracy, let me stress. The Condon Report, although disposed to suspicion that perhaps some sort of anomalous radar propagation might be involved (I record here my objection that the Condon Report exhibits repeated instances of misunderstanding of the limits of anomalous propagation effects), does concede that Lakenheath is an unexplained case. Indeed, the Report ends its discussion with the quite curious admission that, in the Lakenheath episode, "...the probability that at least one genuine UFO was involved appears to be fairly high." One could easily become enmeshed in a semantic dispute over the meaning of the phrase, "one genuine UFO", so I shall simply assert that my own position is that the Lakenheath case exemplifies a disturbingly large group of UFO reports in which the apparent degree of scientific inexplicability is so great that, instead of being ignored and laughed at, those cases should all along since 1947 have been drawing the attention of a large body of the world's best scientists. Had the latter occurred, we might now have some answers, some clues to the real nature of the UFO phenomena. But 22 years of inadequate UFO investigations have kept this stunning scientific problem out of sight and under a very broad rug called Project Bluebook, whose final termination on December 18, 1969 ought to mark the end of an era and the start of a new one relative to the UFO problem. More specifically, with cases like Lakenheath and the 1957 RB-47 case and many others equally puzzling that are to be found within the Condon Report, I contest Condon's principal conclusion "that further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby." And I contest the endorsement of such a conclusion by a panel of the National Academy of Sciences, an endorsement that appears to be based upon essentially _zero_ independent scientific cross-checking of case material in the Report. Finally, I question the judgment of those Air Force scientific offices and agencies that have accepted so weak a report. The Lakenheath case is just one example of the basis upon which I rest those objections. I am prepared to discuss many more examples. 8. The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis: In this Lakenheath UFO episode, we have evidence of some phenomena defying ready explanation in terms of present-day science and technology, some phenomena that include enough suggestion of intelligent control (tail-chase incident here), or some broadly cybernetic equivalent thereof, that it is difficult for me to see any reasonable alternative to the hypothesis that something in the nature of extraterrestrial devices engaged-in something in the nature of surveillance lies at the heart of the UFO problem. That is the hypothesis that my own study of the UFO problem leads me to regard as most probable in terms of my present information. This is, like all scientific hypotheses, a working hypothesis to be accepted or rejected only on the basis of continuing investigation. Present evidence surely does not amount to incontrovertible proof of the extraterrestrial hypothesis. What I find scientifically dismaying is that, while a large body of UFO evidence now seems to point in no other direction than the extraterrestrial hypothesis, the profoundly important implications of that possibility are going unconsidered by the scientific community because this entire problem has been imputed to be little more than a nonsense matter unworthy of serious scientific attention. Those overtones have been generated almost entirely by scientists and others who have done essentially no real investigation of the problem-area in which they express such strong opinions. Science is not supposed to proceed in that manner, and this AAAS Symposium should see an end to such approaches to the UFO problem. Put more briefly, doesn't a UFO case like Lakenheath warrant more than a mere shrug of the shoulders from science? Case 3. Haneda Air Force Base, Japan, August 5-6, 1952. Brief summary: USAF tower operators at Haneda AFB observed an unusually bright bluish-white light to their NE, alerted the GCI radar unit at Shiroi, which then called for a scramble of an F94 interceptor after getting radar returns in same general area. GCI ground radar vectored the F94 to an orbiting unknown target, which the F94 picked up on its airborne radar. The target then accelerated out of the F94's radar range after 90 seconds of pursuit that was followed also on the Shiroi GCI radar. 1. Introduction: The visual and radar sightings at Haneda AFB, Japan, on August 5-6, 1952, represent an example of a long-puzzling case, still carried as an unidentified case by Project Bluebook, at my latest check, and chosen for analysis in the Condon Report. In the latter, is putatively explained in terms of a combination of diffraction and mirage distortion of the star Capella, as far as the visual parts are concerned, while the radar portions are attributed to anomalous propagation. I find very serious difficulties with those "explanations" and regard them as typical of a number of rather casually advanced explanations of long-standing UFO cases that appear in the Condon Report. Because this case has been discussed in such books as those of Ruppelt, Keyhoe, and Hall, it is of particular interest to carefully examine case-details on it and then to examine the basis of the Condon Report's explanation of it, as example of how the Condon Report disposed of old "classic cases." Haneda AFB, active during the Korean War, lay about midway between central Tokyo and central Yokohama, adjacent to Tokyo International Airport. The 1952 UFO incident began with visual sightings of a brilliant object in the northeastern sky, as seen by two control tower operators going on duty at 2330 LST (all times hereafter will be LST). It will serve brevity to introduce some coded name designations for these men and for several officers involved, since neither the Condon Report, nor my copies of the original Bluebook case-file show names (excised from latter copies in accordance with Bluebook practice on non-release of witness names in UFO cases): Coded Identification Designation -------------- ----------- Airman A One of two Haneda tower operators who first sighted light. Rank was A/3c. Airman B Second Haneda tower operator to first sight light. Rank was A/1c. Lt. A Controller on duty at Shiroi GCI unit up to 2400, 8/5/52. Rank was 1st Lt. Lt. B Controller at Shiroi after 0000, 8/6/52, also 1st Lt. Lt. P Pilot of scrambled F94, also 1st Lt. Lt. R Radar officer in F94, also 1st Lt. Shiroi GCI Station, manned by the 528th AC&W (Aircraft Control and Warning) Group, lay approximately 20 miles NE of Haneda (specifically at 35 deg. 49' N, 140 deg. 2' E) and had a CPS-1 10-cm search radar plus a CPS 10- cm height-finding radar. Two other USAF facilities figure in the incident, Tachikawa AFB, lying just over 20 miles WNW of Haneda, and Johnson AFB, almost 30 miles NW of Waneda. The main radar incidents center over the north extremity of Tokyo Bay, roughly midway from central Tokyo to Chiba across the Bay. The Bluebook case-file on this incident contains 25 pages, and since the incident predates promulgation of AFR200-2, the strictures on time-reporting, etc., are not here so bothersome as in the Lakenheath case of 1956, discussed above. Nevertheless, the same kind of disturbing internal inconsistencies are present here as one finds in most Bluebook case reports; in particular, there is a bothersome variation in times given for specific events in different portions of the case-file. One of these, stressed in the Condon Report, will be discussed explicitly below; but for the rest, I shall use those times which appear to yield the greatest over-all internal consistency. This will introduce no serious errors, since the uncertainties are mostly only 1 or 2 minutes and, except for the cited instance, do not alter any important implications regardless of which cited time is used. The over-all duration of the visual and radar sightings is about 50 minutes. The items of main interest occurred between 2330 and 0020, approximately. Although this case involves both visual and radar observations of unidentified objects, careful examination does not support the view that the same object was ever assuredly seen visually and on radar at the same time, with the possible exception of the very first radar detection just after 2330. Thus it is not a "radar-visual" case, in the more significant sense of concurrent two-channel observations of an unknown object. This point will be discussed further in Section 5. 2. Visual Observations: a. First visual detection. At 2330, Airmen A and B, while walking across the ramp at Haneda AFB to go on the midnight shift at the airfield control tower, noticed an "exceptionally bright light" in their northeastern sky. They went immediately to the control tower to alert two other on-duty controllers to it and to examine it more carefully with the aid of the 7x50 binoculars available in the tower. The Bluebook case-file notes that the two controllers already on tower-duty "had not previously noticed it because the operating load had been keeping their attention elsewhere. " b. Independent visual detection at Tachikawa AFB. About ten minutes later, according to the August 12, 1952, Air Intelligence Information Report (IR-35-52) in the Bluebook case-file; Haneda was queried about an unusually bright light by controllers at Tachikawa AFB, 21 miles to their WNW. IR-35-52 states: "The control tower at Tachikawa Air Force Base called Haneda tower at approximately 2350 to bring their attention to a brilliant white light over Tokyo Bay. The tower replied that it had been in view for some time and that it was being checked." This feature of the report is significant in two respects: 1) It indicates that the luminous source was of sufficiently unusual brilliance to cause two separate groups of Air Force controllers at two airfields to respond independently and to take alert-actions; and 2) More significantly, the fact that the Tachikawa controllers saw the source in a direction "over Tokyo Bay" implies a line-of-sight distinctly south of east. From Tachikawa, even the north end of the Bay lies to the ESE. Thus the intersection of the two lines of sight fell somewhere in the northern half of the Bay, it would appear. As will be seen later, this is where the most significant parts of the radar tracking occurred subsequently. c. Direction, intensity, and configuration of the luminous source. IR-35-52 contains a signed statement by Air man A, a sketch of the way the luminous source looked through 7-power binoculars, and summary comments by Capt. Charle"s J. Malven, the FEAF intelligence officer preparing the report for transmission to Bluebook. Airman A's own statement gives the bearing of the source as NNE; Malven summary specifies only NE. Presumably the witness' statement is the more reliable, and it also seems to be given a greater degree of precision, whence a line-of-sight azimuth somewhere in the range of 25 to 35 deg. east of north appears to be involved in the Haneda sightings. By contrast, the Tachikawa sighting-azimuth was in excess of 90 deg. from north, and probably beyond 100 deg., considering the geography involved, a point I shall return to later. Several different items in the report indicate the high _intensity_ of the source. Airman A's signed statement refers to it as "the intense bright light over the Bay." The annotated sketch speaks of "constant brilliance across the entire area" of the (extended) source, and remarks on "the blinding effect from the brilliant light." Malven's summary even points out that "Observers stated that their eyes would fatigue rapidly when they attempted to concentrate their vision on the object," and elsewhere speaks of "the brilliant blue-white light of the object." Most of these indications of brightness are omitted from the Condon Report, yet bear on the Capella hypothesis in terms of which that Report seeks to dispose of these visual sightings. Airman A's filed statement includes the remark that "I know it wasn't a star, weather balloon or venus, because I compared it with all three." This calls for two comments. First, Venus is referred to elsewhere in the case-file, but this is certainly a matter of confusion, inasmuch as Venus had set that night before about 2000 LST. Since elsewhere in the report reference is made to Venus lying in the East, and since the only noticeable celestial object in that sector at that time would have been Jupiter, I would infer that where "Venus" is cited in the case-file, one should read "Jupiter." Jupiter would have risen near 2300, almost due east, with apparent magnitude -2.0. Thus Airman A's assertion that the object was brighter than "Venus" may probably be taken to imply something of the order of magnitude -3.0 or brighter. Indeed, since it is most unlikely that any observer would speak of a -3.0 magnitude source as "blinding" or "fatiguing" to look at, I would suggest that the actual luminosity, at its periods of peak value (see below) must have exceeded even magnitude -3 by a substantial margin. Airman A's allusion to the intensity as compared with a "weather balloon" refers to the comparisons (elaborated below) with the light suspended from a pilot balloon released near the tower at 2400 that night and observed by the tower controllers to scale the size and brightness. This is a very fortunate scaling comparison, because the small battery-operated lights long used in meteorological practice have a known luminosity of about 1.5 candle. Since a 1-candle source at 1 kilometer yields apparent magnitude 0.8, inverse-square scaling for the here known balloon distance of 2000 feet (see below) implies an apparent magnitude of about -0.5 for the balloon-light as viewed at time of launch. Capt. Malven's summary states, in discussing this quite helpful comparison, "The balloon's light was described as extremely dim and yellow, when compared to the brilliant blue white light of the object." Here again, I believe one can safely infer an apparent luminosity of the object well beyond Jupiter's -2.0. Thus, we have here a number of compatible indications of apparent brightness well beyond that of any star, which will later be seen to contradict explanations proposed in the Condon Report for the visual portions of the Haneda sightings. Of further interest relative to any stellar source hypothesis are the descriptions of the _configuration_ of the object as seen with 7-power binoculars from the Haneda tower, and its approximate _angular diameter_. Fortunately, the latter seems to have been adjudged in direct comparison with an object of determinate angular subtense that was in view in the middle of the roughly 50-minute sighting. At 2400, a small weather balloon was released from a point at a known distance of 2000 ft from the control tower. Its diameter at release was approximately 24 inches. (IR-35-52 refers to it as a "ceiling balloon", but the cloud-cover data contained therein is such that no ceiling balloon would have been called for. Furthermore, the specified balloon mass, 30 grams, and diameter, 2 ft, are precisely those of a standard pilot balloon for upper-wind measurement. And finally, the time [2400 LST = 1500Z] was the standard time for a pilot balloon run, back in that period.) A balloon of 2-ft diameter at 2000-ft range would subtend 1 milliradian, or just over 3 minutes of arc, and this was used by the tower observers to scale the apparent angular subtense of the luminous source. As IR-35-52 puts it: "Three of the operators indicated the size of the light, when closest to the tower, was approximately the same as the small ceiling balloons (30 grams, appearing 24 inches in diameter) when launched from the weather station, located at about 2000 ft from the tower. This would make the size of the central light about 50 ft in diameter, when at the 10 miles distance tracked by GCI.... A lighted weather balloon was launched at 2400 hours..." Thus, it would appear that an apparent angular subtense close to 3 minutes of arc is a reasonably reliable estimate for the light as seen by naked eye from Haneda. This is almost twice the average resolution-limit of the human eye, quite large enough to match the reported impressions that it had discernible extent, i.e., was not merely a point source. But the latter is very much more clearly spelled out, in any event, for IR-35-52 gives a fairly detailed description of the object's appearance through 7-power binoculars. It is to be noted that, if the naked-eye diameter were about 3 minutes, its apparent subtense when viewed through 7X-binoculars would be about 20 minutes, or two-thirds the naked-eye angular diameter of the full moon -- quite large enough to permit recognition of the finer details cited in IR-35-52, as follows: "The light was described as circular in shape, with brilliance appearing to be constant across the face. The light appeared to be a portion of a large round dark shape which was about four times the diameter of the light. When the object was close enough for details to be seen, a smaller, less brilliant light could be seen at the lower left hand edge, with two or three more dim lights running in a curved line along the rest of the lower edge of the dark shape. Only the lower portion of the darker shape could be determined, due to the lighter sky which was believed to have blended with the upper side of the object. No rotation was noticed. No sound was heard." Keeping in mind that those details are, in effect, described for an image corresponding in apparent angular size to over half a lunar diameter, the detail is by no means beyond the undiscernible limit. The sketch included with IR-35-52 matches the foregoing description, indicating a central disc of "constant brilliance across entire area (not due to a point source of light)", an annular dark area of overall diameter 3-4 times that of the central luminary, and having four distinct lights on the lower periphery, "light at lower left, small and fairly bright, other lights dimmer and possibly smaller." Finally, supportive comment thereon is contained in the signed statement of Airman A. He comments: "After we got in the tower I started looking at it with binoculars, which made the object much clearer. Around the bright white light in the middle, there was a darker object which stood out against the sky, having little white lights along the outer edge, and a glare around the whole thing." All of these configurational details, like the indications of a quite un- starlike brilliance, will be seen below to be almost entirely unexplainable on the Capella hypothesis with which the Condon Report seeks to settle the Haneda visual sightings. Further questions ultimately arise from examination of reported apparent motions of the luminous source, which will be considered next. d. Reported descriptions of apparent motions of the luminous source. Here we meet the single most important ambiguity in the Haneda case-file, though the weight of the evidence indicates that the luminous object exhibited definite movements. The ambiguity arises chiefly from the way Capt. Malven summarized the matter in his IR-35-52 report a week after the incident; "The object faded twice to the East, then returned. Observers were uncertain whether disappearance was due to a dimming of the lights, rotation of object, or to the object moving away at terrific speed, since at times of fading the object was difficult to follow closely, except as a small light. Observers did agree that when close, the object did appear to move horizontally, varying apparent position and speed slightly." Aside from the closing comment, all of Malven's summary remarks could be interpreted as implying either solely radial motion (improbable because it would imply the Haneda observers just happened to be in precisely the spot from which no crosswise velocity component could be perceived) or else merely illusion of approach and recession due to some intrinsic or extrinsic time-variation in apparent brightness. In contrast to the above form in which Malven summarized the reported motions, the way Airman A described them in his own statement seems to refer to distinct motions, including transverse components: "I watched it disappear twice through the glasses. It seemed to travel to the East and gaining altitude at a very fast speed, much faster than any jet. Every time it disappeared it returned again, except for the last time when the jets were around. It seemed to know they were there. As for an estimate of the size of the object -- I couldn't even guess." Recalling that elsewhere in that same signed statement this tower controller had given the observed direction to the object as NNE, his specification that the object "seemed to travel to the East" seems quite clearly to imply a non radial motion, since, if only an impression of the latter were involved, one would presume he would have spoken of it in some such terms as "climbing out rapidly to the NNE". Since greater weight is presumably to be placed on direct-witness testimony than on another's summary thereof, it appears necessary to assume that not mere radial recession but also transverse components of recession. upwards and towards the East, were observed. That the luminous source varied substantially in angular subtense is made very clear at several points in the case-file: One passage already cited discusses the "size of the light, when closest to the tower...", while, by contrast, another says that: "At the greatest distance, the size of the light appeared slightly larger than Venus, approximately due East of Haneda, and slightly brighter." (For "Venus" read "Jupiter" as noted above. Jupiter was then near quadrature with angular diameter of around 40 seconds of arc. Since the naked eye is a poor judge of comparative angular diameters that far below the resolution limit, little more can safely be read into that statement than the conclusion that the object's luminous disc diminished quite noticeably and its apparent brightness fell to a level comparable to or a bit greater than Jupiter's when at greatest perceived distance. By virtue of the latter, it should be noted, one has another basis for concluding that when at peak brilliance it must have been considerably brighter than Jupiter's -2.0, a conclusion already reached by other arguments above. In addition to exhibiting what seems to imply recession, eastward motion, and climb to disappearance, the source also disappeared for at least one other period far too long to be attributed to any scintillation or other such meteorological optical effect: "When we were about half way across the ramp (Airman A stated), it disappeared for the first time and returned to approximately the same spot about 15 seconds later." There were scattered clouds over Haneda at around 15-16,000 ft, and a very few isolated clouds lower down, yet it was full moon that night and, if patches of clouds had drifted very near the controllers' line-of-sight to the object, they could be expected to have seen the clouds. (The upper deck was evidently thin, for Capt. Malven notes in his report that "The F94 crew reported exceptional visibility and stated that the upper cloud layer did not appreciably affect the brilliancy of the moonlight.") A thin cloud interposed between observer and a distant luminous source would yield an impression of dimming and enhanced effective angular diameter, not dimming and reduced apparent size, as reported here. I believe the described "disappearances" cannot, in view of these several considerations, reasonably be attributed to cloud effects. I have now summarized the essential features of the Haneda report dealing with just the visual observations of some bright luminous source that initiated the alert and that led to the ground-radar and air borne-radar observations yet to be described. Before turning to those, which comprise, in fact, the more significant portion of the over-all sighting, it will be best to turn next to a critique of the Blue book and the Condon Report attempts to give an explanation of the visual portions of the sighting. 3. Bluebook Critique of the Visual Sightings: In IR-35-52. Capt, Malven offers only one hypothesis, and that in only passing manner: He speculates briefly on whether "reflections off the water (of the Bay, I presume) were...sufficient to form secondary reflections off the lower clouds," and by the latter he refers to "isolated patches of thin clouds reported by the F-94 crew as being at approximately 4000 feet..." He adds that "these clouds were not reported to be visible by the control tower personnel," which, in view of the 60-mile visibility cited elsewhere in the case-file and in view of the full moon then near the local meridian, suggests that those lower clouds must have been exceedingly widely scattered to escape detection by the controllers. What Malven seems to offer there, as an hypothesis for the observed visual source, is cloud-reflection of moonlight -- and in manner all too typical of many other curious physical explanations one finds scattered through Bluebook case-files, he brings in a consideration that reveals lack of appreciation of what is central to the issue. If he wants to talk about cloud-reflected moonlight, why render a poor argument even weaker by invoking not direct moon light but moonlight secondarily reflected off the surface of Tokyo Bay? Without even considering further that odd twist in his tentative hypothesis, it is sufficient to note that even direct moonlight striking a patch of cloud is not "reflected in any ordinary sense of that term. It is scattered from the cloud droplets and thereby serves not to create any image of a discrete light source of blinding intensity that fatigues observers' eyes and does the other things reported by the Haneda observers, but rather serves merely to palely illuminate a passing patch of cloud material. A very poor hypothesis. Malven drops that hypothesis without putting any real stress on it (with judgment that is not always found where equally absurd "explanations" have been advanced in innumerable other Bluebook case-files by reporting officers or by Bluebook staff members). He does add that there was some thunderstorm activity reported that night off to the northwest of Tokyo, but mentions that there was no reported electrical activity therein. Since the direction is opposite to the line of sight and since the reported visual phenomena bear no relation to lightning effects, this carried the matter no further, and the report drops that point there. Finally, Malven mentions very casually an idea that I have encountered repeatedly in Bluebook files yet nowhere else in my studies of atmospheric physics, namely, "reflections off ionized portions of the atmosphere." He states: "Although many sightings might be attributed to visual and electrical reflections off ionized areas in the atmosphere, the near-perfect visibility on the night of the sighting, together with the circular orbit of the object would tend to disprove this theory." Evidently he rejects the "ionized areas" hypothesis on the ground that presence of such areas is probably ruled out in view of the unusually good visibility reported that night. I trust that, for most readers of this discussion, I would only be belaboring the obvious to remark that Bluebook mythology about radar and visual "reflections" off "ionized regions" in the clear atmosphere (which mythology I have recently managed to trace back even to pre-1950 Air Force documents on UFO reports) has no known basis in fact, but is just one more of the all too numerous measures of how little scientific critique the Air Force has managed to bring to bear on its UFO problems over the years. Although the final Bluebook evaluation of this entire case, including the visual portions, was and is "Unidentified", indicating that none of the above was regarded as an adequate explanation of even the visual features of the report, one cannot overlook extremely serious deficiencies in the basic report ing and the interrogation and follow-up here. This incident occurred in that period which my own studies lead me to describe as sort of a highwater mark for Project Bluebook. Capt. Edward J. Ruppelt was then Bluebook Officer at Wright-Patterson AFB, and both he and his superiors were then taking the UFO problem more seriously than it was taken by USAF at any other time in the past 22 years. Neither before nor after 1952-3 were there as many efforts made to assemble case-information, to go out and actually check in the field on sightings, etc. Yet it should be uncomfortably apparent already at this point in this discussion of the Haneda case that quite basic points were not run to ground and pinned down. Ruppelt, in his 1956 book, speaks of this Haneda case as if it were regarded as one of the most completely reported cases they'd received as of mid-1952. He mentioned that his office sent a query to FEAF offices about a few points of confusion, and that the replies came back with impressive promptness, etc. If one needed some specific clue to the regrettably low scientific level of the operation of Bluebook even during this period of comparatively energetic case-investigation, one can find it in study of the Haneda report. Even so simple a matter as checking whether Venus was actually in the East was obviously left undone; and numerous cross-questions and followup queries on motions, angles, times, etc., not even thought of. That, I stress, is what any scientist who studies the Bluebook files as I have done will find all through 22 years of Air Force handling of the UFO problem. Incompetence and superficiality -- even at the 1952 highwater mark under Ruppelt's relatively vigorous Project-direction. 4. Condon Report Critique of the Visual Sightings: On p. 126 of the Condon Report, the luminous source discussed above is explained as a diffracted image of the star Capella: "The most likely source to have produced the visual obJect is the star Capella (magnitude 0.2), which was 8 deg. above horizon at 37 deg. azimuth at 2400 LST. The precise nature of the optical propagation mechanism that would have produced such a strangely diffracted image as reported by the Haneda AFB observers must remain conjectural." Suggesting that perhaps "a sharp temperature inversion may have existed at the top of (an inferred) moist layer, below which patches of fog or mist could collect," the Report continues as follows: "The observed diffraction pattern could have been produced by either (1) interference effects associated with propagation within and near the top of an inversion, or (2) a corona with a dark aureole produced by a mist of droplets of water of about 0.2 mm diameter spaced at regular intervals is described by Minnaert (1954). In either event, the phenomenon must be quite rare. The brightness of the image may have been due in part to 'Raman brightening' of an image seen through an inversion layer." And in the final paragraph discussing this case, the Condon Report merely rounds it off to: "In summary , it appears that the most probable causes of this UFO report are an optical effect on a bright light source that produced the visual sighting..." (and goes on to a remark on the radar portions we have yet to examine here) . There are some very serious difficulties with the more specific parts of the suggested explanation, and the vagueness of the other parts is sufficiently self-evident to need little comment. First, nothing in the literature of meteorological optics discusses any diffraction-produced coronae with a dark annular space extending out to three or four diameters of the central luminary, such as is postulated in the above Condon Report explanation. The radial intensity pattern of a corona may be roughly described as a damped oscillatory radial variation of luminosity, with zero intensity minima (for the simple case of a monochromatic luminary) at roughly equal intervals, and no broad light-free annulus comparable to that described in detail by the Haneda controllers. Thus, lack of understanding of the nature of coronae is revealed at the outset in attempting to fit the Haneda observations to such a phenomenon. Second, droplets certainly do not have to be "spaced at regular intervals" to yield a corona, and Minnaert's book makes no such suggestion, another measure of misunderstanding of the meteorological optics here concerned. Nor is there any physical mechanism operating in clouds capable of yielding any such regular droplet spacing. Both Minnaert and cloud physics are misunderstood in that passage. Third, one quickly finds, by some trial calculations, using the familiar optical relation (Exner equation) for the radial positions of the minima of the classical corona pattern, that the cited drop diameter of 0.2 mm = 200 microns was obtained in the Condon Report by back-calculating from a tacit requirement that the first-order minimum lay close to 3 milliradians, for these are the values that satisfy the Exner equation for an assumed wavelength of about 0.5 microns for visible light. This discloses even more thorough misunderstanding of corona optics, for that first-order minimum marks not some outer edge of a broad dark annulus as described and sketched by the Haneda tower operators, but the outer edge of the innermost annulus of high intensity of diffracted light. This clearly identifies basic misunderstanding of the matters at hand. Fourth, the just-cited computation yielded a droplet diameter of 200 microns, which is so large as to be found only in drizzling or raining clouds and never in thin scattered clouds of the sort here reported, clouds that scarcely attenuated the full moon's light. That is, the suggestion that "patches of fog or mist" collected under an hypothesized inversion could grow droplets of that large size is meteorologically out of the question. If isolated patches of clouds interposed themselves on an observer's line of sight to some distant luminary, under conditions of the sort prevailing at Haneda that night, drop diameters down in the range of 10-20 microns would be the largest one could expect, and the corona-size would be some 10 to 20 times greater than the 3 milliradians which was plugged into the Exner equation in the above-cited computation. And this would, of course, not even begin to match anything observed that night. Fifth, the vague suggestion that "Raman brightening" or other "interference effects associated with propagation within and near the top of an inversion" is involved here makes the same serious error that is made in attempted optical explanations of other cases in the Condon Report. Here we are asked to consider that light from Capella, whose altitude was about 8 deg. above the NE horizon (a value that I confirm) near the time of the Haneda observations, was subjected to Raman brightening or its equivalent; yet one of the strict requirements of all such interference effects is that the ray paths impinge on the inversion surface at grazing angles of incidence of only a small fraction of a degree. No ground observer viewing Capella at 8 deg. elevation angle could possibly see anything like Raman brightening, for the pertinent angular limits would be exceeded by one or two orders of magnitude. Added to this measure of misunderstandlng of the optics of such interference phenomena in this attempted explanation is the further difficulty that, for any such situation as is hypothesized in the Condon Report explanation, the observer's eye must be physically located at or directly under the index- discontinuity, which would here mean up in the air at the altitude of the hypothesized inversion. But all of the Haneda observations were made from the ground level. Negation of Raman brightening leaves one more serious gap in the Capella hypothesis, since its magnitude of 0.2 lies at a brightness level well below that of Jupiter, yet the Haneda observers seem to have been comparing the object's luminosity to Jupiter's and finding it far brighter, not dimmer. Sixth, the Condon Report mentions the independent sighting from Tachikawa AFB, but fails to bring out that the line of sight from that observing site (luminary described as lying over Tokyo Bay, as seen from Tachikawa) pointed more than 45 deg. away from Capella, a circumstance fatal to fitting the Capella hypothesis to both sightings. Jupiter lay due East, not "over Tokyo Bay" from Tachikawa, and it had been rising in the eastern sky for many days, so it is, in any event, unlikely to have suddenly triggered an independent response at Tachikawa that night. And, conversely, the area intersection of the reported lines of sight from Haneda and Tachikawa falls in just the North Bay area where Shiroi GCI first got radar returns and where all the subsequent radar activity was localized. Seventh, nothing in the proffered explanations in the Condon Report confronts the reported movements and disappearances of the luminous object that are described in the Bluebook case-file on Haneda. If, for the several reasons offered above, we conclude that not only apparent radial motions, but also lateral and climbing motions were observed, neither diffraction nor Raman effects can conceivably fit them. Eighth, the over-all configuration as seen through 7X binoculars, particularly with four smaller lights perceived on the lower edge of the broad, dark annulus, is not in any sense explained by the ideas qualitatively advanced in the Condon Report on the weak basis now remarked. Ninth, the Condon Report puts emphasis on the point that, whereas Haneda and Tachikawa observers saw the light, airmen at the Shiroi GCI site went outside and looked in vain for the light when the plotted radar position showed one or more targets to their south or south-southeast. This is correct. But we are quite familiar with both highly directional and semi-directional light sources on our own technological devices, so the failure to detect a light from the Shiroi side does not very greatly strengthen the hypothesis that Capella was the luminary in the Haneda visual sightings. The same can be said for lack of visual observations from the F-94, which got only radar returns as it closed on its target, I believe that it is necessary to conclude that the "explanation" proposed in the Condon Report for the visual portions of the Haneda case are almost wholly unacceptable. And I remark that my analysis of many other explanations in the Condon Report finds them to be about equally weak in their level of scientific argumentation. We were supposed to get in the Condon Report a level of critique distinctly better than that which had come from Bluebook for many years; but much of the critique in that Report is little less tendentious and ill-based than that which is so dismaying in 22 years of Air Force discussions of UFO cases. The above stands as only one illustration of the point I make there; many more could be cited. Next we must examine the radar aspects of the 8/5-6/52 Haneda case. 5. Radar Observations: Shortly after the initial visual sighting at Haneda, the tower controllers alerted the Shiroi GCI radar unit (located about 15 miles NE of central Tokyo), asking them to look for a target somewhere NE of Haneda at an altitude which they estimated (obviously on weak grounds) to be somewhere between 1500 and 5000 feet, both those figures appearing in the Bluebook case-file. Both a CPS-1 search radar and a CPS-4 height-finder radar were available at Shiroi, but only the first of those picked up the target, ground clutter interference precluding useful CPS-4 returns. The CPS-1 radar was a 10-cm, 2-beam set with peak power of 1 megawatt, PRF of 400/sec, antenna tilt 3 deg., and scan-rate operated that night at 4 rpm. I find no indication that it was equipped with
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:15:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:55:31 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Friday, December 20, 1996 7:52 AM > > Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:16:21 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > References: <2.2.32.19961216195138.007644e8@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > > > > Another question that comes to mind is how is therapy > > administered to treat a problem for which there is no precedent > > within the mental health field? > > I think it would be possible to treat the symptoms or treat the > after-effects without having it previously established that alien > abductions are real. There may be some inherent problems here to overcome. Let us use my case as an example. I was beset with flashes of imagery that made absolutely no logical sense, John. The only possible explanation that came to mind in trying to make some sense of what I was experiencing was that I had witnessed some possible violent confrontation behind my van across the meadow after going out to it to go to bed for the night. However, that didn't explain the apparent approaching 'helicopter that made no noise' that preceded the vision of the fuzzy, short people within the blinding blue/white light. Moreover, it also didn't even begin to over any rationalization for the inexplicable extreme emotional agitation that I was experiencing in association with these flashes of memory. During the three months between the onset of these flashes of memory and my undergoing hypno-regression, it would be fair to state that I was rapidly becoming an emotional basket case. These circumstances were entirely intolerable considering my military upbringing and certain training and opportunities that I was afforded while in the military. What I AM suggesting here is that in order to get to the bottom line in this situation, hypno-regression was necessary. I recognize however, that this would not necessarily be the case in all instances. Many who are abducted seem to recall through non-extraordinary means, a great deal of their experience. Some are going to need this sort of tool in order to begin to get by the fear. > > > There's no reason why abductees can't be involved in the > > > research/investigation but there are some otherwise obvious > > > groundrules associated with that. It isn't a crime that one or > > > another person has difficulty separating themselves from the > > > phenomenon, I'd be surprised if that wasn't pretty much always the > > > case. > > I was not referring to disassociating oneself from the phenomena > > John, but from the emotional content that came as a result of > > the experience. However, that is also another point. One who has > > had this type of experience and intends to enter into > > research/investigation of abductions and UFOlogy, should become > > capable of laying aside any beliefs and/or assumptions that came > > about as a result of his/her experience in order to be > > effective. > > Same thing as I was saying really. Its much more difficult to be an > objective investigator if you are also a victim of that which you are > investigating. Well, one needs to adopt an attitude of objectivity concerning one's own perceived experience. I'll repeat that in my case I accept that something exceedingly strange happened. Due to subsequent research by Julie and myself, I suspect that the experience involved an episode that could be best drawn in analogy to an intelligence interrogation. The weird table that I was placed upon is significant to this. > > I will concede that, but it is strange and in my view, real. I > > have seen various tentative hypothesis' put forth in an attempt > > to explain away these phenomena, but frankly John, I feel that > > the majority of these are more strange than the notion of some > > type of being whether from across the galaxy or from a slight > > phase of reality away from that we are used to perpetrating > > these events. > > Whatever it turns out to be I'm pretty sure it will be strange...<grin> I sincerely hope that you never have the opportunity to experience it. In the meantime John, I challenge any other abductee and/or researcher to honestly set aside all of the assumptions and adopted beliefs that have come about as a result of their experience(s). I truly feel that if they do not, then they run the risk of being mere pawns and/or tools of the ones who perpetrated the abduction(s) in the first place. I strongly feel that they are placing themselves in a great amount of danger by insisting on playing the helpless victim. I suspect that there is something in common with all of these folks who experience repeated abduction. A part of that I feel lies in what I have suggested above. I feel that in order to begin to make some real headway into what is in fact occurring, these folks have to break out of the mold into which they have placed themselves. That they have as I experienced something decidedly strange, I have no doubt. But, at the same time I realize that the perpetrators WANT to dictate to me the roadmap of the experience. Based upon my post-abduction experiences John, I have come to the tentative conclusion that these beings can and do appear as they will and are masters of illusion. I state this because both Julie and myself have witnessed some of this with our own eyes. > > As you know, I have my own idea as to what constitutes these events. > > I feel most strongly that it is a mistake as well as quite > > possibly constituting a great amount of danger for many in > > assuming/believing that these events are perpetrated by beings > > from another world across the galaxy. I feel the truth could be > > far stranger than that. > > The risk in thinking that nothing is happenning is the same as thinking > something specific is happenning and being wrong. Whatever it is that's > happenning doesn't apparently know or care what we think... It has been my observance that the are smug in their own abilities. They do care when they find that they themselves are being observed John. They really put on a show of being startled. Wishing you and your wife the happiest of holidays on behalf of Julie and Myself, Sincere Kind Regards and Holiday Cheer... Clark Hathaway
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Carl Sagan From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:05:06 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:58:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Carl Sagan dies at 62 > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 11:44:33 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > He left us with a ship of the imagination. With this ship we > explore the possibilities of a certain future. > > He was a Johnny Appleseed spreading the seeds of thoughts > through out the world and the fruits of those orchards are > sweet to the endeavors of hope for Man Eternal in the Universe. > > I see him in the Heavens passing by to take an occasional apple > from one of his trees and taste the nectar of God. > > Goodby, Carl... and hello, Carl... I know you are out there now > where the truth is at last found.. > > ~Pat~ Not a well known fact regarding Carl Sagan's role and the UFO phenomena. After the Condon Report and the Air Force announcement that they were discontinuing BLUE BOOK, rumors ran rampant that the Air Force was going to destroy the BLUE BOOK files. Dr. Edward Condon tried to use his influence to do just that. Carl Sagan on hearing of this circulated a petition and letter with the assistance of Thornton Page to the scientific community to prevent the destruction of the BLUE BOOK files. He gathered a lot of support from his collegues and placed pressure on the Air Force not to destroy the files, but to make them available for future access and study to the public. For whatever reason, the Air Force then stated that they would not be destroying the files and that they would be kept for future public access. Condon was livid and campaigned very hard to prevent the entry of the "renegade" Carl Sagan from membership into the prestigious Cosmos Club in Washington, D.C., thus paying a personal price for his opposition to Condon. As it may, ufologists have Carl Sagan to thank for the preservation of the BLUE BOOK files. Also, it was due to Carl Sagan and Thornton Page that the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) held its symposium on UFOs against a lot of political pressure not to address the subject. The symposium gave Hynek and McDonald a forum to present their viewpoints and cases. Ed Stewart --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:15:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:57:04 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Friday, December 20, 1996 7:52 AM > > Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:16:21 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > References: <2.2.32.19961216195138.007644e8@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > > > > Another question that comes to mind is how is therapy > > administered to treat a problem for which there is no precedent > > within the mental health field? > > I think it would be possible to treat the symptoms or treat the > after-effects without having it previously established that alien > abductions are real. There may be some inherent problems here to overcome. Let us use my case as an example. I was beset with flashes of imagery that made absolutely no logical sense, John. The only possible explanation that came to mind in trying to make some sense of what I was experiencing was that I had witnessed some possible violent confrontation behind my van across the meadow after going out to it to go to bed for the night. However, that didn't explain the apparent approaching 'helicopter that made no noise' that preceded the vision of the fuzzy, short people within the blinding blue/white light. Moreover, it also didn't even begin to over any rationalization for the inexplicable extreme emotional agitation that I was experiencing in association with these flashes of memory. During the three months between the onset of these flashes of memory and my undergoing hypno-regression, it would be fair to state that I was rapidly becoming an emotional basket case. These circumstances were entirely intolerable considering my military upbringing and certain training and opportunities that I was afforded while in the military. What I AM suggesting here is that in order to get to the bottom line in this situation, hypno-regression was necessary. I recognize however, that this would not necessarily be the case in all instances. Many who are abducted seem to recall through non-extraordinary means, a great deal of their experience. Some are going to need this sort of tool in order to begin to get by the fear. > > > There's no reason why abductees can't be involved in the > > > research/investigation but there are some otherwise obvious > > > groundrules associated with that. It isn't a crime that one or > > > another person has difficulty separating themselves from the > > > phenomenon, I'd be surprised if that wasn't pretty much always the > > > case. > > I was not referring to disassociating oneself from the phenomena > > John, but from the emotional content that came as a result of > > the experience. However, that is also another point. One who has > > had this type of experience and intends to enter into > > research/investigation of abductions and UFOlogy, should become > > capable of laying aside any beliefs and/or assumptions that came > > about as a result of his/her experience in order to be > > effective. > > Same thing as I was saying really. Its much more difficult to be an > objective investigator if you are also a victim of that which you are > investigating. Well, one needs to adopt an attitude of objectivity concerning one's own perceived experience. I'll repeat that in my case I accept that something exceedingly strange happened. Due to subsequent research by Julie and myself, I suspect that the experience involved an episode that could be best drawn in analogy to an intelligence interrogation. The weird table that I was placed upon is significant to this. > > I will concede that, but it is strange and in my view, real. I > > have seen various tentative hypothesis' put forth in an attempt > > to explain away these phenomena, but frankly John, I feel that > > the majority of these are more strange than the notion of some > > type of being whether from across the galaxy or from a slight > > phase of reality away from that we are used to perpetrating > > these events. > > Whatever it turns out to be I'm pretty sure it will be strange...<grin> I sincerely hope that you never have the opportunity to experience it. In the meantime John, I challenge any other abductee and/or researcher to honestly set aside all of the assumptions and adopted beliefs that have come about as a result of their experience(s). I truly feel that if they do not, then they run the risk of being mere pawns and/or tools of the ones who perpetrated the abduction(s) in the first place. I strongly feel that they are placing themselves in a great amount of danger by insisting on playing the helpless victim. I suspect that there is something in common with all of these folks who experience repeated abduction. A part of that I feel lies in what I have suggested above. I feel that in order to begin to make some real headway into what is in fact occurring, these folks have to break out of the mold into which they have placed themselves. That they have as I experienced something decidedly strange, I have no doubt. But, at the same time I realize that the perpetrators WANT to dictate to me the roadmap of the experience. Based upon my post-abduction experiences John, I have come to the tentative conclusion that these beings can and do appear as they will and are masters of illusion. I state this because both Julie and myself have witnessed some of this with our own eyes. > > As you know, I have my own idea as to what constitutes these events. > > I feel most strongly that it is a mistake as well as quite > > possibly constituting a great amount of danger for many in > > assuming/believing that these events are perpetrated by beings > > from another world across the galaxy. I feel the truth could be > > far stranger than that. > > The risk in thinking that nothing is happenning is the same as thinking > something specific is happenning and being wrong. Whatever it is that's > happenning doesn't apparently know or care what we think... It has been my observance that the are smug in their own abilities. They do care when they find that they themselves are being observed John. They really put on a show of being startled. Wishing you and your wife the happiest of holidays on behalf of Julie and Myself, Sincere Kind Regards and Holiday Cheer... Clark Hathaway
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:33:16 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:53:41 -0500 Subject: 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA From: FS@platillos.net (Mario Belmondo) Newsgroups: alt.alien.research,alt.ufo.reports, alt.alien.research,alt.paranet.ufo Subject: FLYING-SAUCEROLOGY :Europe vs the USA Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 06:48:41 GMT Organization: Twics Co. Ltd., Japan --FLYING-SAUCEROLOGY IN EUROPE is different from Flying-Saucerology in the USA... ---------------------- Does a European Flying-saucerology exist? National differences, languages and specificities often make one think it does not. But if considered against the Unitedstatian Flying-saucerology("ufology") as a background, a common European=20 framework does appear.=20 Both Flying Saucers as a modern phenomenon and Flying-saucerology were born in the USA in the late '40s, and imported to Europe around 1950. Unitedstatian and European Flying-saucerology have followed similar patterns for years, the USA usually leading towards a scientific Flying-saucerology. Now this pattern has apparently BROKEN down, as Unitedstatians seem to follow new media FASHIONS which look very much like typical themes of the Fifties (contactees, photo repeater cases, Flying Saucers crashes, cover-ups) and which have NO ANALOGY here in Europe, where flying-saucerologists=20 got more and more involved in a revisionist approach centered on the IFO problem and HUMAN SCIENCES. Cultural and historical reasons demonstrate that the two Atlantic sides have been moving along EXCEEDINGLYdifferent lines. Where are we,flying-saucerologists? Does a European FSology really exist? Will a flying-saucerological Europe soon exist? If you look at what is published in Flying-Saucers journals and bulletins around the Continent, you may easily answer "No!": differences and specificities are quite consistent. CULTURAL DIFFERENCES and The "language barrier" are a main reason: out of 18 West-European countries, as many as 14 different languages are spoken, and often local FSologists are not able to understand other languages than their own one. Also historical differences may be easily found: some national flying-saucerologies have had a leading role, often because their languages were widely spoken all around the world (just think of France and Great Britain) and more intense exchanges helped them to keep an international-wide view fo the Flying-Saucer problem and research. Others remained more closed upon themselves, either as of input or as of output, and their contribute has been very small (or at least very little known abroad). Specific national areas of interest may be found for given periods of time: for example sky-watching was well-diffused in the UK in the '60s, in France and Italy in the '70s, in Scandinavia in the '80s; the "Ummo" issue is rarely affecting non-Spanish FSologists; humanistic FSology was peculiar of small British groups in the early '70s, while a heavily revisionist wave hit France in the late '70s. The earthlight debate has barely passed British boundaries. Even specific UFO/IFO types may be found: the lighted toy-balloons are said to cause as many as 31% of German sightings in the last twelve years (and very few Flying Saucer landings are reported from that country...how come? ETI do not like Germans??), while an epidemics of "laser-beams" has been produced all over Italy in the last few years; French contactees look very different from the Italian ones, and if only you consider "UFO abductions"around Europe yo will find very different situations as of both quantity and quality of reports...This seems to be,essentialy,a CULTURAL US PHENOMENON AND NOT A REALITY. Our purpose here is to show that, aside from all above-mentioned (and other) differences and specificities, European national ufologies do already have something in common; something quite consistent and as essential as a methodological approach may be. In order to understand it, we will take the liberty of single it out by contrast, and the trick will be looking at European vs.Unitedstatian Flying-saucerology, which are TOTALLY different.=20 The modern F.S phenomenon was born in the USA, in 1947, and only later was it "imported" to Europe, where the first real MOC(Flying-Saucers) sightings wave was that of 1950. Some Italian flying-saucerologists even (jokingly) say that flying saucers arrived to Europe as part of the "Marshall plan",as well as chewing gums, rock'n'roll music and all the US invasion we were FLOODED since we became a province of the Empire... Flyingsaucerology itself was undisputably born in the USA: any history of Flying-Saucers can but include as classic names as Arnold, Mantell, Keyhoe, Lorenzen, Ruppelt, APRO, NICAP and so on. However,The road towards a scientific flying-saucerology was shown through Jacques Vall=E9e,a French! And afterwards by Hynek,a Unitedstatian of Slavic origin. In Europe,Jacques Vall=E9e,Pierre Gu=E9rin and Aim=E9 Michel started Flying-saucerology. So Flying Saucers arrived in the USA in 1947, the "contactees" in the early '50s, the "soft" and psychical CE's in the late '60s, and the extraordinarily grotesque "abductees" epidemics in the mid-'70s. .Do you remember, the 1958-1964 period is often called the "Dark Age" because of the lull in USA F.S sightings, even if great waves occurred at the same time in Europe and South America. In a word, North-America was the reference mark and a sort of ideal country for flying-saucerologists(and psychiatrists alike!!!) all around the world. It is perhaps in USsia(the USA)that you find the biggest concentration of psychiatric cases by square centimetres!! If something had to happen, it was there:the Great Empire of Mass Media Indoctrinment. We could easily speak of a "mythical role" of the classic USA flying-aucerology, up to at least the mid-'70s. WHAT ABOUT EUROPE ? At that point, something began to change. It may have been on the "scientific FSology" side (since 1977 it was France who lead the way, thanks to the civilian scientific study of F.S by the GEPAN); but we believe it may be better traced in the different consequences of "paraphysical" FSology. While John Keel and Jacques Vall=E9e looked like unheard voices in North-America, (where the predominance of ETH has never been seriously questioned by Flying-saucerologists students), they obtained,on the other hand, a GREAT success among the European FS intellectuals, expecially in France and Great-Britain. The French and the British went,hand in hand,for once,as nations of the Intellect vs the USsian children guarding dirty cows,instead of using the brain! It was only small groups, at first, but slowly they grew and heavily influenced the whole national scene. For example, the English "MUFOB" (now "Magonia") team did not remain a voice calling in the desert: the "humanistic turn" they gave to what was then called the "new ufology" was later amplified by popular authors like Jenny Randles, which on turn gradually influenced a whole generation of British Flying-saucerologists, to a point that now it's RARE to find "true believers" in foreign spaceships among the best known and most active FS investigators in the UK.=20 As another example,Vall=E9e's influence (expecially "The Invisible College") pushed French Flyingsaucerology ,in the mid-'70s towards, parapsychological overtones (just think of Pierre Vi=E9roudy, Jean-Jacques Jaillat, Jean Giraud) and this on turn had a major effect upon the sudden "change of mind" of Michel Monnerie and the other "nouveaux soucoupologues" which in the late '70s turned abruptly to skepticism. They passed over, but the effect was that a new generation of French "soucoupologists" is no longer committed to "believing" but maintain an "open- mind" position which helped VERY MUCH in approaching the scientific milieu. Well, the revisionism was a "tendence" in or around 1980, and you may find examples in the USA, too: Allan Hendry, Richard Haines and Alvin Lawson, or even the "MUFON UFO Journal" publishing skeptical articles by CSICOP members like James Oberg. But it was a different "revisionism", less "ideological" and more "pragmatical" (think of Monnerie vs. Hendry on the IFO issue), and we will see that it's important. Indeed, some differences between the two sides of Atlantic were quite visible as early as 198O. You'll have surely read or heard the "American Empire" (as a cultural concept) is in a crisis of decadence(extreme violence,mass ignorance,media brainwashing,etc). The Unitedstatian model is no longer a model of civilisation but,on the contrary, a model of what you SHOULD NOT do in a civilised society.USsia became an Oligarchy with a few enlightened people at top posts and a hord of Barbarians(raised by the media and the movies)being manipulated cleverly by the Oligarchy...and ENCOURAGED to stay as damned idiots as possible in order not to contest the governing Oligarchy! Because we do not have yet such an Oligarchy and hords or uncivilised ignorants,Europe LEFT by the tangent while the USA started, again,a regressing hysterical merry-go-round. Let's explain that.USsian FSology now Strieber's "Communion", Hopkins' alien abductors, Gary Kinder's book about the Swiss contactee Eduard Meier, the "cosmic cover- up" of MJ-12, the Gulf Breeze photo repeater case: don't we Europeans stand bewildered and astonished at the US FSology seemingly getting back to what it was in the Glorious Fifties? Here are AGAIN those noisy contactees (now "abductees"!!); a new kind of George Adamski nurturing endless controversy about his wonderful yet UNBELIEVABLE "scout-ship" pictures; Flyingsaucerologists crying for "government cover-up"; and all that SHIT!=20 As seen from Europe, USA fsologists seem to have entered a time machine and got 30 years back. Moreover, they are presently debating about things (which are the central issues there) we have no parallel with, here: in Europe you're bound to find no saucer crashes, very few abductions (except perhaps in the UK), smaller Government cover-ups (would you imagine the Italian government successfully trying to conceal anything?). In that sense, we said: it looks like the circle has closed down and it's back to square one. Well, it's not exactly repeating the past, of course, it's on a "different level": as of cover-ups, they've got a powerful instrument as FOIA, and it's no longer question of the Air Force debunking the Flying-Saucer reality but the President himself establishing a Majestic-12 group who exactly knew they were space foreigners and even got their corpses!!!!!! it's no longer simply examining Adamski's photos through the magnifying lens, now we have sofisticated photo analysis techniques confirming Meier's or Gulf Breeze pictures; contactees' evidence is no longer an ETI pancake but odd body scars and ghost pregnancies. Times have changed of course and it all is up-to-date in the '80s, so let's say that such more than a circular pattern it is somewhat a helicoid path: the "first generation" ETH was good for accounting Daylight Discs in the '50s. Now that there are no more FS reports you don't even need a trigger-sighting, not even a time-lapse: you need nothing more than a VAGUE paranoid and hysterical fear for rightfully suspecting a suppressed ETI abduction memory!=20 At the same time, European FSologists seem to follow very different lines of search, as you may read in most Old Continent's Flyinf-Saucers journals. As of Europe, the real big difference between the '50s and the '80s is, we believe, that then FSologists "knew" the truth and what the saucers were, while we presently think we don't know any longer.=20 Early FSologists were not so much researchers as they were public educators trying to persuade people of the ETI spacecrafts' reality. How many investigation reports dating back from the '50s can be found in your files? Most "classic" cases are to be found only in books , but hardly do they include those data which are presently required from the average investigator. (And yet, if you have to judge from some recent pieces of investigative work, some USsian colleagues have forgotten all what Hendry and Haines and Fowler did teach and preach as of field investigation methodology.) Another major feature of the "new" European ufology is that we no longer consider IFOs as "false FS". Indeed IFOs have become a conceptual reality in Europe and are presently acknowledged as a part of the problem, whereas our overseas colleagues still regard them as little more than products for the dust-bin: identify and eliminate them. A widely diffused concept here is that the same proportion of 9 to 1 points to their importance and they're as interesting and instructive, too. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT ? So it seems as if we have sort of two Flyin-saucerologies, as Jenny Randles recently put it: a "Gringo"one, concentrating almost exclusively on grotesque abduction reports, FS "crashes" and Government "cover-ups"; and an European one, more concerned with IFOs and PSYCHOLOGY . How could it happen? In this we cannot blame the language barrier! It's true, most American ufologists cannot read other languages,(but this is THEIR fault!)but they can always read the British authors. And anyway we can read them and still can follow them, but we didn't ANY LONGER because they are hysterical and paranoid,a reflection of the past PURITANS on their boats... So we took our own road. Some socio-flyingsaucerologist may say the European "son" reached maturity (at 40 years old it's nearly time!) and now wants to kill the Yanqui "father", but it would be ludicrous (though the afore-mentioned self- styled Italian sociologist did say something to that effect in order to explain some recent local polemics). Indeed basic attitudes of USsian and European FSologists towards each other do not differ much from the average man's attitudes: The average USsian,created by the USsian Oligarchy, tend to think Europeans are much too complicated in their abstract reasoning, in "behind-ology" and with their noses up to the sky instead of being pragmatical in their approach to reality. And Europeans tend to think of USsians as GULLIBLE, NAIVE, SUPERFICIAL,HYSTERICAL ,ARROGANT,PARANOID and fascist people, unable to see farther than the end of their nose and to detach themselves from the face value of things. Of course such stereotyped images are rough and inadequate, but they nonetheless contain a grain of truth. The practical (pragmatical) culture of Americans as opposed to the more theoretical,civilised, European one is reflected by the difference between some "revisionist" authors like Richard Haines and Allan Hendry, there, and Jenny Randles or the French "new wave", here. That is well illustrated by some recent Budd Hopkins' reasonings, on the line "we don't need abductions theoricians, but abduction investigators: come and do the hard work instead of philosophising from your comfortable armchairs". It's true: it would be good for some FS philosophers to get involved in field investigations and "touch" the phenomenon. On the other hand, it would actually be NAIVE to go interviewing witnesses without a CAREFUL background training, unless you just want to get easy confirmation for YOUR OWN beliefs. Ironically, abduction researchers, who refute any psychological implication for "their" percipients, seem to be unaware that they're involving themselves (and their percipients, alas) in that same socio- psychological GARBAGE they claim European colleagues are getting muddled into. The different part played by the mass media in the U.S.A. and in Europe is also HIGHLY relevant. Media attitude towards people and people's attitude towards media seem to be very different, if you look at newspapers and TV. Just as an example, we are told USsians are fond of finding their names in the local newspaper, while in Italy, for example they're AFRAID of that and usually DO NOT want their names to be published. And the media treatment was probaly the cause of the great success of Whitley Strieber's "Communion" in America, while at the same time it received a very COLD reception in Europe (in Italy but ALSO in Great Britain!). We also think that it's significative that USsia claims to be in a lull of sightings since 1973 or so. That would explain why you have to resort to: - alleged crashes which took place back forty years ago; - "invisible (INDEED) epidemics" of hilarious and naive abduction=20 cases without any conscious UFO sighting; - bedroom visitors once kept outside any UFO report catalogue or file (do you remember Bloecher-Webb's CE-III class E: no UFO seen in correlation with entity!!! Pure delusion...); - tons of reports (and photos) from a single "repeater" witness (Mr "Ed" or Billi Meier, that's basically the same). Abductions seem to mark the FINAL separation, in that they are to become the American ufology. They undoubtedly constitute the highest grotesque report. Are we sure that a solution to the UFO enigma may come from the study of such imaginary ETI kidnappings. What are we to do of such intrinsecally un-studiable things as Hopkins' intruders: there is no proof or direct evidence, the intruders keep a constant control of the situation, it's substantially a transcendent reality. At this point we can only either: - wait for the "contact"(VERY UNLIKELY), or - arm ourselves and watch the skies for shooting down the "ETI", or - conclude that "we're property" or already "colonised" and retire ourselves from FSology =E0 la Aim=E9 Michel. If you want to call it "-ology"... Will we arrive at having no contact point at all between the Atlantic? In at least two fields it may well be the case: - the social level: a different public has got different interests (remember: Strieber) and a different way to see the phenomenon and its students; - the ufologists themselves; think of Hopkins: doesn't he, too, look for a "different" UFO experience: hypnosis-INVENTED instead of investigated. (We always wonder: perhaps we too would, if we tried; but would that still be ufology or something else?). WHO IS RIGHT ? On the other side, our USsian friends might well ask us what we are talking about and conclude that indeed we are no longer FSologists; and they may be right, since we no longer study what most of them mean by "UFO". (But can they correctly say they study Flying-Saucers, when they actually are on the trail of ETI spacecrafts they "modestly" hide behind the more scientific-sounding "UFO" label?) Somebody here arrived to claim that perhaps we should say we study "unusual aerial phenomena" (not "anomalous", since some are not intrinsecally exotic). But at this point, perhaps we do have different objects of study. In a certain sense, there are also similarities between present USsian and European avant-garde ufologists: UFO sightings are just the proverbial tip of the iceberg both for for American abduction researchers and for the European socio-psychological "new FSologists". But those are different icebergs: the first is a massive genetic test campaign by ETI intruders, the second is just one facet of a multifaceted "modern FOLKLORE" phenomenon. Thus, in the least, what we see emerging are two different models of ufology, two concepts of reality, each of them possibly being the correct one (if one is to be). Well - you could say - where's the problem? It's you who said each national UFO community has its own "concept of ufology", so what? What we want to emphasize is a danger: that we Europeans and them USsians are beginning to go in opposite directions, and (what is worst) they seem to go down a dangerous way even they can't imagine where it will lead them. As a first result, it has rehabilitated the lies of contactees, though in a new form, so that they are now accepted (and promoted) by FSologists, who even believe they act in a scientific manner (how can you oppose Philip Klass when he notes that Budd Hopkins' concept of "skepticism" is so broad that he feels he cannot refute anything?). We are told by linguists that US English and English as languages are getting slowly apart and that in the next 100 years they won't be able to understand each other anyway. It looks as if such a process has already gone up to a good distance, since we seem NOT to talk about the same things. What we fear is that we arrive at a complete BREAK, at having incommensurable FS realities. And we are near to that. Indeed, while we express our astonishment at the recent US developments, our overseas friends don't seem able to cope up with our criticism and only try to DEMONISE us as "debunkers of a new kind", (and that's the way some Italian old-styled FS-buff described us). But that's wrong: we are not "negative believers" of the CSICOP kind, and Michel Monnerie was writing ten years ago, and a very different approach has developed since. It seems difficult to explain to USsians that European Flying-Saucer research has EVOLVED to a point were it's no longer similar to a black-and-white battlecamp between the goodies (us believers) and the bad guys (them debunkers): more and more often you may find ufologists holding very different ideological positions living and working together without just trying to bite each other. Indeed, it's only tolerance for different opinions, and none of us should feel entitled to possess "the Truth": we're all searching for answers, and we've not yet got them. And here lies the hopeful solution: a greater tolerance for each others' opinions. Are we prepared to understand that FSology itself may be influenced by SOCIOLOGICAL differences and so it is legitimate that each one has its own kind of ufology? THE WAY AHEAD Even if in reality such extreme opposition as we have painted may not exist, but its representation has served us to get aware of ourselves: a conclusion we feel entitled to reach is that a European FSology already exists de facto, because of a common substratum of "modus operandi" and style of reasoning, as opposed to the USsian one. A different course of history in the last fifteen years left its mark, and european FSologists are now ideologically nearer to each other and more distant from the USsian way. It looks as if we can no longer expect the USsia to show us the way, and we no longer have that importing channel at work across the Atlantic. Indeed we are already walking on our own legs, even if nobody tells it as it is, and we all still speak of "ufology" as if it was one and only, while at the moment we do have two ufologies. We only need better contacts and exchange, and here it's up to us to define what and how to do to improve it. But since our affinities are more "ideological" (or better: methodological), we feel that the common ground for a European Flyingsaucerology has to be searched in these issues, rather that in some sort of "federation". Personally, from our own experience in organising Italian ufologists, as well as participating in some previous attempts to build international structures, we don't believe international federations may succeed. But we are ready to take part in such a scheme, if it can be useful, and we're prepared to share our experiences with others. Those same structural differences in national scenes probably render a European federation too big and complex a thing to handle. The very different national organisations render it difficult: some countries have one national centre, others do not even have a national federation but only local groups and researchers; if you choose to have organisations represented (as in PICUR), you may find rivalries within each country; if you choose single individuals (as in Hynek's World UFO Association) they may not grant local adoption of common strategies or methodologies. Moreover, just think of travel difficulties (how many times a country was represented abroad by a now inactive individual without any following, whose only merit was to be there!). A more flexible approach is to be adopted if we want to get to an international cooperation going beyond an exchange of publications and information, by establishing common standards (as PICUR tried, but perhaps it was too early), while at the same time respecting each other's specific interests or local situations. In that, we at Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici have got an uncommon experience of putting together all and any (serious) attitude: total skeptics akin to Robert Sheaffer, doubters =E0 la Lawson, agnostics like Haines, true believers in ETI visitors, supporters of hallucinatory theories, all them have come to live together within CISU; as well as pure researchers and public educators, field investigators and sky- watchers all found their place within a common framework where we only agreed on a "minimum common denominator" of what all of us engaged to do. A closer relationship and interfacing between private UFO researchers is not only useful, it's needed if we want to get on towards a solution for the UFO problem. Europe as a whole has got a great potential of men, of ideas, of data and of experiences. Let's try and put it all together. All the best. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------= =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Wormwood? From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:24:54 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:00:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Wormwood? Hi Graham.. * Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> writes > Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:28:08 -0500 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Wormwood? >>From: legion@werple.net.au >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Wormwood? >>To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >>Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:29:36 +1100 (EST) > [snip] >> Sorry, Graham. Andrew's "scoop" was based on a load of old tosh >> from the Canadian version of the magazine that gives tabloids a bad >> name, the Weekly World News". (Anybody else remember their "Aliens >> Ate My Laundry" story?) > Dear John, > Many thanks indeed for appraising me on the original source of the > so-called "Floating City in Space" story. > I immediately contacted Andrew Pike about this and he pointed out that > his information came not from the Weekly World News, but from > discussions he had entered into with fellow astronomers, including two > professional astronomers, all of whom appeared to be treating this > topic with a surprising degree of seriousness. > From whence cometh the story that concerned them so? > A bit of detective work brought the answer: The UK magazine > "Amatuer Astronomy & Earth Sciences" quoted a certain Marcia Masson > - she of the "Weekly World News" article. In that case Mr Pike and the astronomers can relax. The 'AA&ES' story was sourced from the same 'Weekly World News' article that I posted and they've acknowledged it was a 'hoax'. > What prompted "Amatuer Astronomy & Earth Sciences" to cite Marcia > Masson's claims is another matter entirely. I e-mailed the editor of 'AA&ES', one Dave Goode, and he kindly clarified the matter: >Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:49:27 -0000 >From: Dave Goode <AAES@dial.pipex.com> >Reply-To: Dave Goode <AAES@dial.pipex.com> >To: legion@werple.net.au >Subject: Re: Info on Article, please > The issue I'm interested in quoted a certain "Dr Marcia Masson" in > regard to some alleged "photographs of Heaven" that were claimed to > have been made by the Hubble Space telescope. > "Dr Masson's" claims are certainly interesting - to say the least! - > and I'd welcome the chance to investigate them. It seems, on further investigation that our young, keen and rather naive UFO correspondent didn't do his homework properly and was the victim (and not the only one!) of a hoax. Shame, as it would have been fantastic had it been true... > Many thanks for your time. Again, you're welcome. If you manage to find out more, please let me know. Mail from Dave Goode Freelance Journalist http://dspace/dial/pipex/com/aaes/dgoode/ ========================================================================= > It may interest you to know that I have received numerous calls from > devout Roman Catholic's (including two clergy members) who speak of > references to the arrival of a comet contained in prophecies and the > like. Not being a member of the Catholic Church, I was wondering if > anyone else has come across this and would like to comment? No doubt they were referring to Wormwood: >From the Book of Revelation 8:10-11 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. Over the centuries all manner of celestial phenomena, comets in particular, have been interpreted as the harbingers of change, doom, or the fulfillment of a particular prophecy. For some folks these phenomena encompass a religious or biblical significance, while others see them as evidence that fleets of flesh-eating Reptoids are about to invade and turn us all into tasty snack-food. Let's hope the Reptoids hold off their invasion until we've managed to consume the last of the Christmas ham, turkey and fruit cake. <g> Thanks, John -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Is There 'Strife' on Mars? From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:28:19 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:01:32 -0500 Subject: Is There 'Strife' on Mars? >From The Electronic Telegraph UK News Thursday 19 December 1996 'Find adds to strife on Mars' By Robert Uhlig, Technology Correspondent THE existence of life on Mars has been thrown into further doubt after scientists found that two of the four lines of indirect evidence supporting the meteorite finding can be explained by non-biological processes. When Nasa announced it suspected early extra-terrestrial microbial life on Martian meteorite ALH 84001, it based its claims on the fact that four compounds found inside the meteorite could be produced only by living organisms. Most damaging of all to supporters of the Martian life theory is the suggestion by geoscientists in America that magnetite crystals inside the meteorite, assumed to be the product of bacteria, were not produced by a biogenic process. "The biological explanation is becoming less and less plausible," said John Kerridge, a planetary scientist at the University of California at San Diego, who is familiar with the studies published or about to be published in the journal Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. San Diego scientists also found organic molecules called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in Antarctic ice were the same as those inside the meteorite's globules. They were also found in other meteorites that did not come from Mars. ==================================================================== Copyright Telegraph Group Limited 1996. -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Recent Australian 'Fireballs' From: John Stepkowski <legion@WERPLE.NET.AU> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:47:59 +1100 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:04:28 -0500 Subject: Recent Australian 'Fireballs' Hi Ole! How are things at CRULP and Project Hessdalen? > You know anything of this, John Stepkowski? > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 14:38:36 -0700 > To: DevereuxP@aol.com (Paul Devereux), eps@victor.hiof.no > (Erling P. Strand) > From: Kwint <gwprod@primenet.com> (by way of John Derr > Subject: Recent australian "fireballs" -------- > Australian Sighting Reports: > National UFO Hotline > Australia Ph: 190 224 3529 New Zealand Ph: 0900 58367 > November 26, 1996 6.00am The 'National UFO Hotline' is a commercial recorded UFO "phone-in" service where people are charged $3.00 per minute to report their own sightings or listen to others. The 'Hotline' also sells copies of their phone calls for $25.00 a tape. This "commercial" imperative means that 'Hotline' reports end up being sent to the media very quickly, long before the sightings can be confirmed or checked with local UFO groups. Several UFO groups have tried to establish contact with the 'Hotline' to exchange data and sighting reports, but the 'Hotline' owner has been rather unresponsive. This doesn't mean that the 'Hotline' reports should be discounted, just taken with a large pinch of salt until they can be cross-checked with local UFO groups. > Summary Australian Reports > Canberra 10.30 pm EST Monday 25th Nov. 1996. [...] > Adelaide 1.25am CT Monday 25th Nov. 1996. [...] > Perth 5.25pm WT daylight Sunday 24th Nov. 1996. [...] I'll follow these up and post the results to the list. > Alice Springs 11.15 pm CT Monday 25th Nov. 1996 Respondent callers > report seeing up to four intense bright orange fireball lights over > Alice Springs before heading off in a Westerly direction. As already mentioned by Jan, there have been a lot of "plastic bag UFO" incidents in Alice Springs lately. This mirrors events in the southern states where all year there have been a large number of BoL reports connected to the subsequent discovery of wire and wooden-framed plastic bag UFOs. Unlike older "hot air" UFOs which used candles or cotton wool soaked in methylated spirits, the newer models utilise fire-lighters to generate lift. These fire-lighters burn for considerable periods of time and aren't easily extinguished. As a result these "fake" UFO flights tend to last a long time and cover large areas. Add a few coloured light-sticks - green and blue are the current favourites of the hoaxing 'cognoscente' - and you end up with some spectacular UFO reports. Despite the probability that the Alice Springs event was the product of hoaxers, that area of Australia has had a long history of BoL events, most notably of the 'Min-Min' light variety. Two years ago there was extended BoL activity in the Wycliffe Well area of the Northern Territory which resulted in hordes of tourists invading the area with their cameras. The result was several pictures and some video-tape of a moving fuzzy, white blob. Not a single spectrogram to determine a thermal or non-thermal spectrum, however. Some university scientists talked about going up and "taking a look", but they never did. Maybe next time. I'll append a short clipping about Wycliffe Well in case its of interest. Welcome to the list. - John ======================================================================= >From: Barrier Daily Truth Broken Hill 5.9.94 MYSTERY LIGHTS IN OUTBACK MELBOURNE: Wycliffe Well in the Top End [Northern Territory] boasts only a caravan park, a roadhouse and a population of three -- but it's facing the glare of publicity because of mysterious lights in the night sky. Lou Farkas, who runs the roadhouse at Wycliffe Well, 374km north of Alice Springs, declares himself accustomed to the phenomenon. But one of his employees Malcolm White is not so blase -- one of them gave him a scare last week. "He was driving along the road on Monday night when it came down and rushed towards him," Lou said. "It shot away to the side but not before his car engine cut out, stopping him from driving on for 15 minutes." Malcolm White was not available to elaborate on his experience, he has gone into hospital for a leg operation. Lou, 47, says he has seen the lights to the west of his roadhouse now and then ever since he arrived from Adelaide seven years ago but they have been causing him some trouble recently. "They sit up there, orange with some red and green and they come down to the ground just before half past nine at night," he said. "That's when the EFTPOS and the phone and the fax play up and Telecom can't do anything for me." He said the 300 or so Aborigines of the Alicurung people who live in the district had known of the lights for a long time. The proprietor of the newspaper at Tennant Creek, Jasmin Afianos, 31, travelled the 130km to Wycliffe Well on Tuesday to view the phenomenon -- and it lived up to everything she had heard. "One of them is bigger than the other and they are about 45 degrees from one another," said Ms Afianos, whose article about them was published in a Darwin newspaper yesterday. "They are not on show every night but when they are they come down about 9.20pm and cause trouble with electricity." Asked the question sceptics always put -- "Did you take any photos?" -- she said she had but was still waiting to receive the prints back from the developer. And she will return to Wycliffe Well soon -- this time with a video camera. --AAP ======================================================= -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:37:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:02:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Regarding... >Date: 18 Dec 96 19:34:13 EST >From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance Theresa Carlson wrote: <<It was Bob Shell who had arranged with Kodak that they would test the film for free. >> > Whoa! Is there some differences again! I don't know exactly where your own opinions are, but..... I thought the general concensus around here was that Bob Shell was not credible or reliable???< Theresa, It wouldn't, in all seriousness, concern me what others opinions were of Bob Shell, around here or out there. It's what Bob may contribute as evidence which has to deemed credible or otherwise. > Until some sort of agreement is reached, how do we know if we are suppose to believe or disbelieve that Bob Shell can have the film tested for free, or tested at all for that matter, or that he made any arrangements at all? Did someone check?< Yes, I've seen transcripts of interviews with Tony Amato at Kodak. As Tony confirmed last year: "We were promised film back in July. we have been promised film right along on this. I was told before that we had film coming and got everyone ready to do the test as quickly and expeditiously as possible. And the film never showed up". As you know, I have asked Bob for a summary of the current position re the theoretical testing of any meaningful archive film, and I was very surprised to see him claim that Tony Amato/Kodak had been more than just uncooperative about testing any film samples or providing assistance. I've asked him to clarify exactly what he's implying and if he's seriously suggesting, as it appears he is, that it's all part of some conspiracy. James. Internet; 100626.2242@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 DISPATCH #34 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 20:02:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:05:59 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH #34 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #34 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 12/20/96 Quote of the Week "We sometimes pretend something is true not because there's evidence for it but because we want it to be true. We confuse reality with our hopes and fears." --Carl Sagan, astronomer, author and sometimes skeptic, dead today at age 62. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Happy Holidays From ParaScope The ParaScope team thanks our loyal community of friends and supporters for your support, interest and dedication to our cause. Thousands of you read this newsletter each week, and hundreds of thousands more of you visit our sites on America Online and the world-wide web, and we truly appreciate your continued interest in and devotion to ParaScope, the stories we cover, and the community online that we have created. We hope you all have a safe and happy holiday season. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ A Return to the Cosmos for Carl Sagan Stand-up comics loved to mock his enthusiasm for the "billions and billions of stars" in the universe, but few people have done so much to popularize complex cosmological pursuits as astronomer Carl Sagan, who died today at 62. Sagan, born in New York in 1934, thought he might follow his father into the garment business, but an early fascination with the heavens steered his fate in another direction. While skeptical of UFOs and alien encounters, Sagan was convinced that life of some kind existed elsewhere in the universe. Only time will answer many of the great questions Sagan posted -- with luck, many of us will be here when those answers are found. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! It's the holidays, and you've got a little extra time on your hands. A few days off, and nothing to do but endure Aunt Helen trying to peddle fruitcake and Uncle Walt telling the same reindeer joke 11 times in a single day. We've got a better idea: tune out, dose up and log on! For the next few days, ParaScope will be featuring a great mix of new stories and some of the best recent stories you may have missed, offering you the perfect chance to catch up on what's gone down in 1996. There's been enough weirdness, fear, loathing, oppression, paranoia, strangeness and insanity this year to last a lifetime. But just in case you missed some of it, take advantage of AOL or your ISP's unlimited usage pricing to plop your fat mouse down in the middle of our archives and pig out! Loosen your belt, take a deep breath and dig in to some of the stories we've published this year that we'll either feature next week or that you can find via our search engines on both our online sites: Matrix: Conspiracies, Crimes & Cover-Ups The Passive Millimetre Wave Imager, the Waco Massacre, Gulf War Syndrome, the MLK assassination conspiracy, Hinckley & the "Bushy Knoll," The Great Salinas/Citibank Scandal, the CIA & LA Crack Lords, The Hemp Conspiracy, the Skull & Bones Society, Mount Weather, Culture Jamming, Government DNA Banks Nebula: UFOs, Alien Encounters and Outer Space The Hale-Bopp Comet Mania, Life on Mars, the Alien Autopsy, the Rockefeller UFO Report, the Penthouse Alien Hoax, Independence Day, Road Trip to Area 51, Origins of UFOs, the Face on Mars, Monuments on the Moon, Mexican UFO Sightings, the Stalin/Roswell Connection, Italian UFO Sightings Enigma: Paranormal Phenomena & High Weirdness Lone Star Stonehenge, Tesla: the Electric Magician, Chupacabra Mania, Secrets of the Pyramids, the Mongolian Death Worm, the Crystal Skulls Hoax, Psychic Spies, The Toxic Lady, Cryptozoology, Chernobyl Supervoles, the Ghost of Elvis Dossier: Hard Evidence & Original Documents The El Mozote Massacre, COINTELPRO, the MJ-12 Document Hoax, Gulf War Weapons: High Tech Lies, Operation Mongoose, Search for JFK's Killers, MKULTRA: CIA Mind Control, Spy Satellite Photo Gallery, GAO Report on Roswell, CIA Plots Against Castro, Push Poll Propaganda That's just for starters! Check out all these stories and tons more, or meet a friend, chat a while, post a message, download a file or just hang out at ParaScope this week. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: 'Backlash' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 19:38:27 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:10:31 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' Cathy, rfsignal@sprynet.com said; >I hate being human and lost in a sea of other ignorant >humans! I resent that. I am an ignorant land deweler. Besides, I'm scared of sharks and certain plankton tastes funny. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Airships - A 'Dim' Idea, Says Edison From: John Stepkowski <legion@WERPLE.NET.AU> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:28:44 +1100 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:09:03 -0500 Subject: Airships - A 'Dim' Idea, Says Edison Hi All... In anticipation of the upcoming 100th Anniversary of the 1897 'Airship' Wave, two short clippings to remind us of the event: - John =================================================== >From ST.LOUIS POST DISPATCH - Airship Wave of 1897 EDISON'S OPINION An Airship Will be Made, but Recent Stories are Fakes NEW YORK, April 20: Thomas A. Edison has no confidence in recent Western stories of airships. He says they are fakes. He thinks an airship will soon be made, but it will not be on the balloon idea. He says: "Whenever an airship is made it will not be in the form of a balloon. It will be a mechanical contrivance, which will be raised by means of a powerful motor, which must be made of very light weight. At present no one has discovered such a motor, but we never know what will happen. We may wake up tomorrow morning and hear of some invention which sets us all eagerly to work within a few hours, as was the case with the Roentgen rays. Their success may come. I am not, however, figuring on inventing an airship. I prefer to devote my time to objects which have some commercial value. As the best, airships would only be toys." ============================================= IF IT MOVES, TAX IT! ============================================= TAX ON AIRSHIPS Texas Proposes a New Way To Raise The Wind AUSTIN, TEX., April 23: A resolution was introduced in The House of Texas Legislature this morning setting forth that, inasmuch as it has been generally current that an airship was flying around Texas carrying passengers and freight, and inasmuch as said airship is operating without paying any taxes or complying with the rates established by the Texas commission, that said commission be instructed to establish special rates for the airship and see that its management comply with said rates. ============================== -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Code of ethics From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:17:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:07:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of ethics ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > Date: Friday, December 20, 1996 7:55 AM > > Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:42:39 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > References: <2.2.32.19961216195235.00afe0ec@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > > > > > We have self-claimed experiencers from virtually all faiths > > > and religions so I'm think that a spiritual approach might be > > Question: How did my statement refer necessarily to any of > > RELIGIOUS persuasion John? > > Question: Why and how does the term SPIRITUAL equate to the > > condition of RELIGION? > > You didn't necessarily refer to any specific religion but each religion > has its own spirituality (which it necessarily thinks is singularly > right, with every other spirituality being specifically wrong). I feel that this is a difference in terminology John. <grin> In my view, Religions, denominations, sects etc. each have their own particular DOGMA which to all too many equate to a particular flavor of spirituality. Yet, I seriously question if these constitute spirituality at all necessarily. You see to me, true spirituality has NOTHING to do with religion. Down through the ages John there have been many atrocities committed in the name of this or that religion. Where I ask you is the spirituality in committing inhumane acts John? Spirituality in my view is an evolving condition within each of us that is exemplified partially by our individual Humaneness. A constant striving for a higher level of personal conduct that in part displays an individual's growing personal concern as to his own actions being in the best interest for all concerned. However, this is but one small aspect. Hopefully you get my point. > I don't know why spirituality and religion are linked. I'm not a > religious or spiritual person. They seem to be linked to me. They aren't linked necessarily John, this is just one of the illusions that individual religions perpetuate in order to survive and/or grow. This may seem somewhat cynical to many, but I feel that aside from the many good things that individual religions accomplish, these are offset to a great degree by the control that they exercise. Thus, Religions are control mechanisms John. I ask you, where lies the spirituality within the control of others under the guise of guidance. How many Christian denominations for example, espouse the notion of one's going to Hell if their particular path isn't followed? Spirituality? Bah! Humbug! <chuckle> > > In my view, spirituality and faith have really very little to do > > with religion and dogma John. > > It has been my experience that religion has served to retard > > spirituality and hinder faith in many rather than to perpetuate > > it. > > Well, you and _I_ can agree with that but the other 80% of the world's > population that actively believes in one or another religios dogma > apparently doesn't agree with that <grin>. To be sure. > > > But if you could _only_ pick one to start with???? > > Ahhhh well, responsibly I would work toward getting the player > > off of the bench. > > Me too. That is humane and thus, spiritual to a degree. > > to convince me that my experience was a beneficial one conducted > > by benevolent beings. > > That was extremely unfortunate and hopefully you've managed to undo most > of that silliness. As we now know that individual wasn't an acceptable > MHP to begin with. Hahaha! I was branded anathema from the gitgo John. <grin> I didn't for a second buy that hogwash and did my best in the attempt to point out why I felt that it was pure baloney. I can honestly relate that following a number of the get-togethers, I was taken aside by a few and thanked for speaking out. I once again challenge others who have experienced similar circumstances to my own, to seriously question what are to me the illusionary trappings provided by those who perpetrated the circumstances in the first place. > > This really only served to compound the > > problem. When I began to attempt to take a look at my experience > > from a metaphysical/spiritual viewpoint after some research, I > > was able after a time to begin to accept what had happened to > > me. I must however qualify that I only accept that something > > exceedingly strange happened. I recall the events as having a > > third dimensional reality, but question a great portion of that > > as being fact. > > Most experiencers I've talked to would say something similar. The high > strangeness of the experience, and various specific events, seem to > stand almost as a contradiction to it being a 3D-real event. Really. That hasn't yet been my experience. > > > Standard therapy isn't about whether your experience is real > > > or not, its just about the issues related to you and your reactions. > > Well, I suppose that this is true. I know that I have come to an > > understanding of my reactions concerning the event. > > That's largely the name of the game. Therapy can't, shouldn't and > generally won't prove something right or wrong - just get you back in > the game. In you case it was mostly self-therapy and you aren't the > only person who mostly helped themselves. A non-trivial part of > traditional psychology is helping you to become your own best therapist. Yup! Kinda like hypnosis. <grin> > > > Some experiencers go through a period when its extremely > > > important for them to tell others about what happenned to them for > > > the purpose of self-testing their own telling of the experiences and > > Sure. I found myself in the position of seriously questioning my > > own sanity. Equally important from my standpoint, was that I was > > There's nothing at all wrong with the self-testing-by-telling phase that > people go through. It very clearly shows the internal turmoil and > questioning that's going on within a person. I think that tends to > demonstrate that something extremely strange did happen to the > individual. Unquestionably. > > I don't know John. You need to appreciate that I was questioning > > my sanity. I feel that this has been the case of many others as > > well. > > I understand that. And if you told your story to a person who's sanity > you didn't question and that person was even moderately swayed that > probably something _did_ happen to you, then you would have (maybe just > a little tiny bit) demonstrated to yourself that you weren't crazy. Okay, I see your point, you're correct. > > It is a difficult thing to accept that others may think > > that you are not playing with a full deck. I had to come to a > > place where I had accepted what had happened to and to accept > > that unless also experienced by another, there was simply no way > > they could understand where I was coming from and to be O.K. > > I think there's a _huge_ difference between a person with ongoing > experiences and one with apparently post-experience thinking only. I believe that the abduction scenarios can be brought to a halt. This does not necessarily mean that the encounters stop however, it just means that their nature changes. > Perhaps you've had the experience of talking to someone about your > experiences and (somehow, some way) they became _totally_ convinced that > they were _positively_ real. Did their 110% acceptance, genuine as it > may be to them, seem hollow or shallow to you? Reserved. <grin> But my friend, I fail to see how it could be any other way. > > > There is a catch-22 here. If we establish elaborate > > > electronic monitoring and that equipment shows _NO_ physical > > > activity and _NO_ signs of tampering with the gear, yet the abductee > > > reports that they were in fact abducted, we would have no choice > > > except to assume that whatever happenned was non-physical. > > That does not make the events any less real nor dangerous. > > Man is after all, a multi-dimensional creature. The vast > > majority of us have barely scratched the surface of our > > realization of this. We have much to learn. > > And that's the problem. Traditional science would say that there's > nothing wrong with the hardware, it performed exactly as it should, and > it recorded no 3D events at all. Traditional psychology might then say > that there's nothing wrong with the person either, but they _are_ > suffering some trauma from what can _currently_ only be described as a > nightmare. Maybe, in our example, we'd get lucky and there'd be > something else, a physical marking or something, to complicate things. Having said the above John and in consideration of the entire exchange, perhaps you are getting a bit of a feel for what I was referring to by the term 'awareness'. Some are consciously aware of things within their surroundings within which others have no cognizance. Therefore, these things are real to them on an subtle experiential interactive way while to the others, there is not an equal amount of perception. > > > > You got me, buddy. Still, you have to admit that based upon > > > > the numbers alone, there is something decidedly strange going > > > > on. > > > I've been convincved that something was going on for > > decades... > > As have I. Furthermore, I have come to suspect that persisting > > in attempting to gain any understanding utilizing a traditional > > approach is/will be futile. > > I can convince myself using non-traditional approaches but I couldn't > convince anyone else without them. Agreed. Yet, your experience is not any less valid is it? Most especially when you encounter others who independently report nearly the exact same experience(s) under similar circumstances. > > > Who asked 'em? I'm not a member of any system of religion so > > > I guess I get the short end of the stick? I'd be better served if > > > the aliens replaced my cable TV company... > > I feel that systems of religion have little to nothing > > whatsoever to do with this equation John. > > Its a transitional problem. About 80% of the world's population > _actively_ believes in/practices one or another religion. (That means > they pray more than once a week, they attend some ceremony once a week, > etc.) _Most_ religions offer a direct link to God. In most religions > there's nothing between the person and God. Making the universe bigger > by there being one or more inteligent alien species sort of puts stuff > between humans and their God. What I have found valuable in a following of religious in general is the fellowship. There is something that is supremely comfortable and strengthening within the arms of fellowship. This does not necessitate the practice of a religion in a dogmatic sense though. Actually, I haven't attended a fellowship situation for around two years. That circumstance wasn't with a religion as most would define it, but I did attend somewhat religiously, for thirteen years. I AM contemplating at present attending on a regular basis, a particular denomination. This will not be due to it's particular dogma, but due to the fellowship with some of the people within the congregation including the minister whom I like as a person. > We can expect that if we ever meet aliens, that is if they come here, > that they're probably older and more technically advanced than us. This may or may not be true, but does not necessarily pertain to more important issues. > They've probably either successfully dealt with or made lots of progress > dealing with their social and religious problems. It would be > interesting to see how they did that but it would also be threatening to > some folks here. Perhaps they have never had these issues to deal with. Perhaps they have never been exposed to emotional content due to never having had that aspect within themselves. Perhaps they are just now beginning to experience this and are experiencing a beginning of it's development within themselves. I suggest that were this not the case, they could ill afford perpetrating the inhumane acts to which they reportedly have. > I personally don't have a problem with any of that but I suspect that > many folks would. I also think it'll get worked out over time. I just pointed out one of mine. I do not for a second buy that these beings where ever and however they do get here, are far in advance of us in aspects that really matter. Another thing. I feel that despite the possibility that they may possess superior weaponry for example, they have insufficient numbers to take advantage of the slight increase in superiority. Their only alternative it is clear, lies within manipulation to gain their ends. > > They then go their way doing the same things over and over > > expecting different results, but receiving the same ... still > > searching for the causation. > > I think its hard to be very responsible in life when we're not much in > control of it or what happens around us. Responsibility is a matter of acceptance. We collectively create our own greater reality John. > > A bunch I'd wager. And I needn't remind you John, Fear usually > > breeds violence. > > Sure does. All too many strive to rationalize their fear and to justify the actions that are a result thereby refusing to take responsibility. They therefore attempt to abide within an illusion. > > > Those changes happen across generations. As one generation > > > moves out or prominence another one moves in. It takes time. > > What if time is not a commodity that we can any longer enjoy in > > these regards? > > Well, then we're screwed. Probably the single most common thread that > runs through human society, politics, economics, and even religion is > reaction instead of action (or pro-action). We wait for something to > happen then we react to it instead of determining that something is > going to happen and act on it. I prefer to have faith and trust in spirit John. I know that when the chips are down that many are going to shed their rose colored glasses and witness reality for what it is ... of our own collective creation. Some will choose to realign it with values and features more in keeping with those of humaneness while others will still be addicted to the self same illusions with which they have been running for eons. They will grow and evolve, but this as in the past will be a slow process. Thus, I AM suggesting that there will indeed be a split in what is experiential reality. Some will arise to experience a new dimensional reality while others will remain within the hell of their own making until they discover that they can rise above it. > I don't think anything is going to change that in the near term. I do, but as inferred, many will be oblivious to the change. > > > It occurred to me when I was writing that that in those areas > > > where we are _already_ using electronic monitoring of pre-release > > > convicts the costs would be essentially zero. The equipment is > > > already in place as are the people to do the monitoring. > > Then it should be utilized. > > Yes, it should. It all starts with a police report. Let me assure you that in this community, that would bring nothing but contempt and ridicule. > > > How do we objectively prove that things are vibrating at a > > > higher frequency, how do we prove that this affects human thinking? > > > That is two questions. As to the first, I suspect that our > > physical instrumentation may be at or near their limitations of > > possibility. However, we can catalog the effects upon measurable > > phenomena of forces of higher frequency. Kirlian photography and > > newer, related technologies are an example of this. Of course, > > there have been other suggested explanations tendered for the > > phenomena observed in Kirlian photography, but no conclusive > > proof that I know of. > > Secondly, it affects awareness more than the thinking process. > > It serves to distort. > > You could very well be right about our instrumentation's ability to > observe. That's always been a problem in science. The solution is self evident John. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of ego invested in the attainment of degrees. Thus, the system or rather the adherents thereof, serve to be self-stifling. I AM not anti-science, but of the ego that often accompanies the academic accomplishments. > > In any event, the concepts I AM attempting to convey are > > difficult to find useful words for. > > Whether is hard science or spirituality we're talking about things at or > beyond the known edge, there's no textbook to check for the right > words... Too true. > > > I don't know why most abductionists ignore the paranormal > > > aspects of the event. Until recently the paranormal aspects were > > > _actively_ censored out of abduction accounts, even by MUFON. > > > I will state that I feel with every fibre of my being that this > > is the aspect that is the key. > > That this aspect of nearly every case is all but ignored by > > nearly every researcher that I know of, is doing themselves and > > more importantly the rest of us, a great disservice. If it is > > there, then it is of significance. > > I think the paranormal aspect is more important than the other details. As do I and I feel the urgency that it needs to be addressed. > > I think that many have already made up their mind that this > > phenomena comes to us from across the galaxy, John. > > I think they've done that too. I feel that this is just so much propaganda. > > I think that > > they fear that if the incidence of paranormal phenomena is > > recognized, then abduction incidents in general will be declared > > non-physical. Frankly even if they were, I fail to understand > > the significance of that. The phenomena is still occurring and > > leaving circumstantial physical evidence. Put another way, the > > phenomena is occurring and may be partially of a non-physical > > nature or para-physical nature leaving physical effects in some > > cases. In any case, something is happening and it may well be > > very dangerous. > > People don't like to admit they took a wrong turn especially if they'd > been on that wrong turn road a long time. There clearly is a > consensus-likde decision among most that this is a 3D, aliens in > spaceships, deal and they exclude the paranormal (or sometimes explain > it away with science fiction). Then they play into the perpetrators hands In My Opinion. Once one breaks out of this mold and is what is termed by some an experiencer John, one notes a decided change in the content of the experiences that occur after. > We should also bear in mind that the abductionists are new to the scene > and invented their own 'ology.' Paranormalists were here before them. > If the abductionists accepted the paranormal aspects then they'd have to > compete directly with the paranormalists (who, by the way, began > using electronic monitoring _years__ ago)... I can't argue with you. > > > I don't know if that's _actually_ true but its what the > > > abductionists are saying. > > In many cases yes. There also seems to be some suspicion that it > > happens to a greater percentage of military people and/or their > > dependents. > > I recently heard this mentioned. Do you know what this suspicion is > based on? No. My being of a military family has nothing to do with it. In fact, I would suspect the opposite. With me it is just a generality due to having read the accounts of so many who are/were of a military family upbringing. However, I have been remiss in having not thought of the attempt to compile any statistical evidence in support (or converse) the notion. Kindest Regards, Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Carl Sagan From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 18:46:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:11:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Carl Sagan dies at 62 > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 11:44:33 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Born in New York City in 1934, Sagan was a noted astronomer > >whose lifelong passion was searching for intelligent life in the > >cosmos. > :( > > He left us with a ship of the imagination. With this ship we > explore the possibilities of a certain future. > > He was a Johnny Appleseed spreading the seeds of thoughts > through out the world and the fruits of those orchards are > sweet to the endeavors of hope for Man Eternal in the Universe. > > I see him in the Heavens passing by to take an occasional apple > from one of his trees and taste the nectar of God. > > Goodby, Carl... and hello, Carl... I know you are out there now > where the truth is at last found.. > > ~Pat~ I want to thank you Pat for such a beautiful message to celebrate the passing of a equally beautiful person. Blessings and Merry Christmas, Julianne
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 OMNI On the Internet - (Dec. 22 - 28) From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 23:50:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:13:23 -0500 Subject: OMNI On the Internet - (Dec. 22 - 28) --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: OMNI On the Internet - (Dec. 22 - 28) Date: 96-12-20 19:25:49 EST From: OMNI Chat O M N I On the Internet http://www.omnimag.com <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<= To attend chats, click on the text highlighting the chat near the bottom of the OMNI on the Internet home page. =================================================== If you'd like to stop receiving this newsletter, click on "Reply," type STOP, and click on "Send." We'll remove you from our mailing list immediately. This Week's Online Features, Chats and Surveys! <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<= Fishing in the Norton Rings Join OMNI for one of the most exciting fishing trips you'll ever take. Leave the tackle box and the fly-rod at home and grab your EVA suit. We'll take you through the plans and progress being made by MIT's "Norton Fishing Club" for human waste in the Earth's orbit at ... http://www.omnimag.com/features/norton_rings/ <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Sunday <=*= December 22, 1996 <=*= 9:00 PM ET LIVE: In the INFINITIES Chat: Dave Blohm, President of Virtual Entertainment, on the future of interactive gaming. <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Monday <=*= December 23, 1996 <=*= 9 PM ET Live In E-Media: OMNI Chats with Tad Williams, author of the recent Otherland, about interactive entertainment. <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=< ===== <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<= Are You A Last Minute Shopper? Are you stumped when it comes to buying Aunt Millie a present? Painfully aware that Cousin Burt *does* have everything? Then whip on through the Bookstore of the Omniverse. In addition to all the latest bestsellers, you can find titles as diverse as "Crochet For Today" and "The 100 Best Stocks You Can Buy." With 10% Off every book you can afford to play Santa at ... http://www.booksite.com/texis/scripts/omni/ <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Tuesday <=*= December 24, 1996 <=*= 10 PM ET NO CHAT SCHEDULED TONIGHT On behalf of all of us at OMNI have a wonderful holiday season and a happy 1997! <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=< ===== <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<= The BIG Picture What does the movie "Toy Story" have to do with "Cosmic Voyage," the newest film made in the giant-screen IMAX format? Get an inside peek at the supercomputers, software and people that have created this exciting new view of the universe ... http://www.omnimag.com/emedia/ <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Wednesday <=*= December 25, 1996 <=*= 9 PM ET LIVE in Breakthrough Medicine: Join OMNI for an open chat on medical technology we can use at home. Is self-care an underutilized major part of the healing process? <=<=<=<=<= ===== <=<=<=<=<= ======== Thursday <=*= December 26, 1996 <=*= 10 PM ET LIVE in our OMNIVisions Chat: Jonathan Lethem on Amnesia Moon and The Wall of the Sky, The Wall of the Eye. <=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*==*<=<=*== Friday <=*= December 27, 1996 <=*= 10 PM ET LIVE in our Brainstorms Chat: Documentary film maker and ecologist Michael Tobias, Ph.D., on his recent book World War III. <=<=<=<=<= ===== <=<=<=<=<= ======== Saturday <=*= December 28, 1996 <=*= 10 PM ET No more dull Saturday nights! Join OMNI's thought-provoking OPEN CHATS on the future of science, culture, and technology. ========================================================== O M N I On the Internet http://www.omnimag.com <=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 AUFORA - Carl Sagan From: AUFORA News Update <dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 02:33:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 05:14:53 -0500 Subject: AUFORA - Carl Sagan AUFORA News Update Friday, December 20th, 1996 <www.helios.org> ___________________________ *** We at AUFORA would like to express our most profound sympathies over the loss of such an influential and great man. *** STATEMENT BY NASA ADMINISTRATOR DAN GOLDIN ON THE PASSING OF ASTRONOMER CARL SAGAN "All of us at NASA are saddened by the passing of Carl Sagan. For more than three decades, Dr. Sagan was an eloquent, passionate voice for the sciences that he so ably advanced. As much as any scientific figure of our time, Carl described for an entire generation -- the generation of the Space Age -- the true wonders of the Universe around us. His unbelievable ability to explain the complexities of space and space exploration inspired people to look up into the night sky in wonder. Through such efforts as the television series 'Cosmos' and his recent book, 'Pale Blue Dot,' Carl reached -- and touched --millions around the world. He was a pioneer of the idea that life could exist on Mars, years before NASA was able to uncover evidence of potential early life on the Red Planet, and he was an important voice in our Mars science programs for many years. He was an early champion of the idea that the two leading spacefaring powers, America and Russia, should work together in the exploration of space. He also was at the forefront of constructing humanity's first messages to the stars, which even now are hurtling out of our Solar System aboard the Pioneer and Voyager spacecraft. Carl himself likened the effort to the launching of a message in a bottle on the interstellar ocean. We will remember his vision, his eloquence, and his intellect, and we will miss him." __________________ AUFORA News Update News, Information, Facts from the world of UFOlogy To subscribe send e-mail to: dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ Helios Science News: http://www.helios.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 09:04:37 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:06:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Philip, This whole Kodak thing is a mess. It is my opinion that Kodak has not been acting in good faith on this issue. Initially they said they only needed one frame to test, and when I told them I had one frame and would hand carry it to Rochester, NY, for testing they suddenly needed that 50 frame strip. I spent a lot of time working with Ray and got Volker to agree to supply such a strip for them. At this point they said they needed 16 feet, at which point I got disgusted with them and gave up on them. Additionally, in telephone conversations and e-mail exchanges Tony Amato at Kodak has repeatedly promised to send me a variety of documentation and other material, and has never sent anything. This is not typical of Kodak. In my magazine dealings I always have anything i ask for on my desk the following day. Also, as you know, Professor Malanga tested a piece of the film and pinned it down to one of three types of acetate made by Kodak. When I asked Kodak for dates of manufacture of these acetate types, their response was totally evasive and did not supply the requested information. So much for Kodak. On a recent visit to a film factory of one of Kodak's competitors I asked their top chemical engineer and one of his colleagues about testing film. I asked how much would be required for a proper analysis and cross reference to their extensive computer data base. A piece the size of " the head of a pin" was their response. I have asked them to test the film for me, and they said they would be happy to if their company management approved the idea. This is working its way through their bureaucracy even now. Feel free to circulate this message as broadly as you wish. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 The Satellites of Comet Hale-Bopp From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:40:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:05:02 -0500 Subject: The Satellites of Comet Hale-Bopp The Satellites of Comet Hale-Bopp (from http://www.metaresearch.org/) (A Meta Research Press Release) Comet Hale-Bopp was discovered on July 23, 1995. It has the unusual distinction of being bright enough to be seen in amateur telescopes while still farther from the Sun than Jupiter. This may mean that the comet is bigger than most, perhaps even one of the spectacular but rare "great comets", the most recent of which appeared in 1882. But it might just mean that the comet underwent a recent outburst, and will soon fade back to a more typical brightness. As time goes by and the comet shows little sign of rapid fading, hope grows that it is truly a large comet that will become visible to the naked eye in the spring of 1997, when it reaches the inner solar system. If its extrapolated brightness is accurate (always a risky assumption with comets), it might reach about magnitude -2. This is the brightness of the brightest star Sirius. However, a comet's brightness is spread over a far larger angular area, since most reflected light comes from the comet's coma and tail. So the artificial night sky brightness common in cities will prevent viewing the comet except from places where the night sky is reasonably dark. As readers of the book "Dark Matter, Missing Planets and New Comets" will be aware, author Tom Van Flandern has predicted that both asteroids and comets commonly have satellites. This is a natural consequence of origin of these bodies in the explosive breakup of a larger former solar system planet or moon. But it is almost impossible if comets and asteroids condensed from a primeval solar nebula over 4 billion years ago, as the most popular theory today suggests, because captures are extremely rare events. So when an unusually large comet such as Comet Hale-Bopp is viewed with powerful modern telescopes, either satellites will be present, or they will not; and either way tells us something important about which model of comet origins is more likely to be correct. The photograph with this article was taken with the Hubble Space Telescope on September 26, 1995, showing the region near the nucleus of the comet in high resolution. The caption supplied with the photo is partially reproduced in smaller typeface near the picture. Clearly, that caption presumes the solar-nebula-origin model, in which orbiting satellites are too improbable to be considered seriously. The purpose of this press release is threefold: 1.to point out that the so-called "blob ejected from the nucleus of the comet" is in all likelihood a satellite of the nucleus in a long-term stable orbit. 2.to predict that telescopes will continue to track this same satellite in the same orbit around the comet nucleus all the way into the inner solar system, by which time additional satellites might be seen. 3.to call attention to the implications for theories of comet origins this discovery implies. - end - .-----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '-----------------------------------------------------' * MUFOR Web site: http://207.167.67.197/ * * TLP Database : http://207.167.67.197/tlp/lunar.html* * E-mail 1 : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * * E-mail 2 : mufor@waldonet.net.mt * * IRC channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * * Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. * Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * * Postal Address: P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '-------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 BWW Media Alert Attachment From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 06:29:48 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:07:01 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert Attachment Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Whoops! I forgot to attach your present of the letter "A" from TAP to the Media Alert! Oh well, this way I can do it in the body, rather than as an attached file. That'll eliminate the "cracking the file" problems. Happy holidays! TAP (THE ADDRESS PROJECT) This is a listing of organizations, publications, and public individuals (those who have either published their address or given specific permission for its use) involved in the exploration of the unknown (also known as: Anomalistics, Fortean phenomena, Metempiric studies, Parapsychology, etc.). Groups solely involved in the dispensation of philosophy have not been included. The list has an official publication date each year of June 24th, but is revised frequently. Additions, corrections, and comments should be directed to Bufo Calvin at P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA, 94596 phone (voice or fax) 510-432-8102, or INTERNET address BufoCalvin@aol.com. AARDVARK BOOKS 8 Braddon Avenue Urmston Gtr Manchester M31 1UE UK CATEGORY: MAIL ORDER LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 ABDUCTEES ANONYMOUS WEBSITE: http://WWW.CyberGate.COM/~ufonline/ FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs, abductions FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 ABDUCTION ALLIANCE 2028 18th Avenue San Francisco, CA 94116 PHONE: 713-768-0499 RED MCMURPHY FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1993 ABOMINABLE SNOWMEN CLUB OF NORTH AMERICA (defunct?) P O Box 186 Yakima, WA 98901 ROGER PATTERSON (deceased), Director LAST KNOWN DATE: 1970 THE ACADEMY OF CLINICAL CLOSE ENCOUNTER THERAPISTS (ACCET) 2826 O Street, Suite 3 Sacramento, CA 95816 FIELDS OF INQUIRY: abductions, ET encounters LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 ACADEMY FOR RELIGIOUS AND PSYCHICIAL RESEARCH 326 Tunxi Avenue P O Box 614 Bloomfield, CT 06002 202-242-4593 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 ACADEMY OF PSYCHIC ARTS AND SCIENCES (APAS) 100 Turtle Creek Village, Suite 363 Dallas, TX 75219 (214) 788-1883 TIMOTHY DEXTER LATUS SHARI ADAMIAK E-MAIL: 102542.3573@compuserve.com FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs AFFILIATIONS: CSETI FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 BRIAN ADAMS: see OZARKS AREA RESEARCH GROUP GEORGE ADAMSKI (deceased): see PUBLIC INTEREST SPACE SCIENCE CTR. THE ADDRESS PROJECT: see TAP AERIAL PHENOMENA RESEARCH ORGANIZATION (APRO) (defunct) 3910 E. Kleindale Road Tucson, AZ 85716 JIM & CORAL LORENZEN PUBLICATION: APRO BULLETIN FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOS FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1952 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1978 AERIAL PHENOMENON RESEARCH: THE INDIANA GROUP (formerly known as MUFON INDIANA) 18 Davis Drive Mt. Vernon, IN 47260 PHONE: 812-838-3120, 812-838-9843 FRANCIS L. RIDGE, Director FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs PUBLICATION: UFO INTELLIGENCE NEWSLETTER FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1986 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 AETHERIUS SOCIETY 6202 Afton Place Hollywood, CA 90028-8298 PHONE: 213-465-9652, 213-467-4325 REV. ALAN MOSELEY PUBLICATIONS: THE AETHERIUS SOCIETY NEWSLETTER, COSMIC VOICE CATEGORY: UFOs, contactee FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1960 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 AETHERIUS SOCIETY 757 Fulham Road London SW6 5UU UK PHONE: 01-736-4187 FIELDS OF INQUIRY: CONTACTEE FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1955 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 AFRICAN UFO REGISTRY Pre. Dept. 400211 GTMC Box 234 Tema, Ghana PATRICK AISU, Director LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1976 AFFIL: IUFOR ALBERTA UFO RESEARCH ASSOCIATION WEBSITE: http://ume.med.ucalgary.ca/~watanabe/ufo.html FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 J.L. ALDRICH: see PROJECT 1947 JOHN ALEXANDER: see NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR DISCOVERY SCIENCE ALIEN INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPEMENT (AI-TRAD) P O Box 5125 Security, CO 80931 DR. KIM J. MIKULES FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1988 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 DON ALLEN E-MAIL: dona@totcon.com AFFILIATIONS: COLORADO MUFON FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 ALPINE UFO REGISTRY Via M. Knoller 6 Balzano, 39100 Italy WALTER ELKINS, Director AFFIL: IUFOR LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1976 AMALGAMATED FLYING SAUCER CLUBS OF AMERICA (AFSCA) (defunct) P O Box 39 Yucca Valley, CA 92286 (619) 365-1411 GABRIEL GREEN AMATEUR UFOLOGY NEWS: see HEARTLAND RESEARCH PROJECT AMAZING HORIZONS P O Box 61662 Sunnyvale, CA 94088 CATEGORY: VIDEO DISTRIBUTOR AMERICAN PSYCHIC MAGAZINE 303 Loma Alta Drive, Suite 20 Santa Barbara, CA 93109 CATEGORY: Magazine LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR ELECTRONIC VOICE PHENOMENA 726 Dill Road SEVERNA PARK, MD 21146 301-647-8742 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR PSYCHICAL RESEARCH (ASPR) S.W. 73RD STREET New York, NY 10023 (212) 799-5050 DONNA L. MCCORMICK PUBLICATION: AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR PSYCHICAL RESEARCH JOURNAL FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1907 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 AMERICAN SOCIETY OF DOWSERS (ASD) P O Box 24 Brainerd Street Danville, VT 05828 (802)684-3417 AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF META-SCIENCE (AAMS) P O BOX 1182 Huntsville, AL 35807 (205) 881-7165 WILLIAM F. SOWDER, President AMERICAN UFO COMMITTEE 2875 Sequoyah Drive N.W. Atlanta, GA LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1969 AMERICA WEST PUBLISHERS P O Box 986 Tehachapi, CA 93581 PHONE: 805-822-9655 FAX: 805-822-9658 CATEGORY: Publisher PUBLICATION: books, THE PHOENIX LIBERATOR (newspaper) LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 ANCIENT ASTRONAUT SOCIETY (AAS) 1921 St. Johns Avenue Highland Park, IL 60035 (708) 295-8899 DONNA ROBINSON, GENE M. PHILLIPS PUBLICATION: ANCIENT SKIES FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1973 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1993 ANCIENT TRUTH RESEARCH FOUNDATION (ATRF) P O Box 38037 Hollywood, CA 90038-0037 PHONE: 213-464-5948 PUBLICATION: COSMIC CURRENT NEWS ALBERT RAINEY LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 PAUL ANDERSON: see CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH INTERNATIONAL BETTY ANDREASSON: see BETTY (ANDREASSON) LUCA AND BOB LUCA WALTER H. ANDRUS: see MUFON GRANVILLE ANGEL: see EUFORA ANNALS OF THE ENQUIRING 8 St. John Street Wells, Somerset BA5 1SW GERRY LOVELL FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs, paranormal FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 THE ANOMALIES ZONE: see STAN GORDON THE ANOMALIST Patrick Huyghe P O Box 577 Jefferson Valley, NY 10535 FAX: 914-526-4204 E-MAIL: 74750.2600@compuserve.com WEBSITE: http://www.cloud9.net/~patrick/anomalist/ FIELDS OF INQUIRY: fortean phenomena, UFOs, parapsychology, cryptozoology, etc. CATEGORY: publication FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1995 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1995 THE ANOMALIST (same as above) Dennis Stacey P O Box 12434 San Antonio, TX 78212 FAX: 210-828-4507 E-MAIL: 72450.1305@compuserve.com WEBSITE: http://www.cloud9.net/~patrick/anomalist/ FIELDS OF INQUIRY: fortean phenomena, UFOs, parapsychology, cryptozoology, etc. CATEGORY: publication FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1995 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1995 ANOMALY (defunct) P O Box 351 Murray Hill Station New York, NY 10016 EDWARD CHALLENGER (pseudonym for JOHN A. KEEL) ANOMALY RESEARCH BULLETIN (defunct) P O Box 1479 Grand Rapids, MI 49501 FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1976 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1978 ANOMALY RESEARCH BULLETIN (same as above?) 7098 Edinburgh Street Lambertville, MI 48144 FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1978 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1978 ANOMALY RESEARCH CENTRE (ARC) 104 Howitt Street Ballarat, VIC 3350 Australia MARK MORAVEC LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOS, CRYPTOZOOLOGY, ETC. APRA BOOKS Anitquarian & Scholarly Books 443 Meadow Lane Nottingham NG2 3GB PHONE: 0602-860010, 0602-874615 APRO BULLETIN: see AERIAL PHENOMENA RESEARCH ORGANIZATION ARCHAEUS PROJECT 2402 University Avenue St. Paul, MN 55114 PHONE: 612-641-0177 FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs, Cyberphisiology DENNIS STILLINGS FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1982 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 ARCHIVES FOR UFO RESEARCH P O Box 11027 S60011 Norrkoping, Sweden FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1973 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 ARCTIC UFO REGISTRY 8324 Dublin Avenue Anchorage, Alaska JERRY MAJOR, Director AFFIL: IUFOR LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1976 ARCTURUS BOOK SERVICE (obsolete) Box 831383 Stone Mountain, GA 30083-0023 PHONE: 404-297-4624 CATEGORY: mail order LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 ARCTURUS BOOK SERVICE (obsolete) 1443 S.E. Port St. Lucie Blvd. Port St. Lucie, FL 34952 PHONE: 407-398-0796 FAX: 407-337-1701 FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1993 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 ARCTURUS BOOK SERVICE 1443 S.E. Port St. Lucie Blvd. Port St. Lucie, FL 34952 PHONE: 561-398-0796 FAX: 561-337-1701 FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 ARIZONA BIGFOOT CENTER P O Box 412 Paulden, AZ 86334-0412 PHONE: 602-636-4982 LYLE VANN FIELDS OF INQUIRY: Bigfoot, UFOs FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LARRY ARNOLD: see PARASCIENCE INTERNATIONAL DAVID ARNSPIGER P O Box 85014 Tucson, AZ 85754-5014 CATEGORY: Classified advertiser SPECIALTY: buys cryptozoology books FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 ASIAN UFO REGISTRY 1-8-11 Tsugo Chiba City Japan M AFFIL: IUFOR LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1976 ASSOCIATION D'ETUDE SUR LES SOUCOUPES VOLANTES (AESV-FRANCE) BP 324 13611 Aix-en-Provence Cedex France YVES BRESSON, PERRY PETRAKIS FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1987 ASSOCIATION DIJONIASE DE RESERCHES UFOLOGIQUES & PARASYCHOLOGIQUES (ADRUP) 6 rue des Gemeaux 21220 Gevrey Chembertin France PATRICE VACHON LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1987 ASSOCIATION FOR THE SCIENTIFIC STUDY OF ANOMALOUS PHENOMENA (ASSAP) 20 Paul Street Frome, Somerset BA11 1DX England 0373-51777 DR. HUGH PINCOTT PUBLICATIONS: ASSAP NEWS (bi-monthly), ANOMALY FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1981 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 ASTRONET CATEGORY: BBS (modem accessible eletronic "Bulletin Board") (03) 467 8065 (voice) AUSTRALIA LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 BOB FLETCHER ASTRONET REVIEW P O Box 8285 Northland Centre Vic. 3072 AUSTRALIA CATEGORY: Newsletter ATHANOR PRESS 5550 Franklin Blvd. 101 Sacramento, CA 95820-4742 CATEGORY: Publisher PUBLISHES: NATIONAL DIRECTORY OF HAUNTED PLACES LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1994 LOYD AUERBACH P O Box 875 Orinda, CA 94563-0875 E-MAIL: ESPER@GLOBAL.CALIFORNIA.COM FIELDS OF INQUIRY: Parapsychology CATEGORY: Author, researcher AFFILIATION: OFFICE OF PARANORMAL INVESTIGATIONS FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1993 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 AUSTRALIAN CENTRE FOR UFO STUDIES (ACUFOS) P O Box 728 Lane Cove, NSW 2066 Australia PUBLICATIONS: ACUFOS BULLETIN, REPORTS DIGEST AFFILIATED WITH: TUFOIC; UFO RESEARCH (FNQ); UFO RESEARCH (NSW); UFO RESEARCH (QLD); UFO RESEARCH (SA); ARC FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1980 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 MARK MORAVEC, COORDINATOR AUSTRALIAN FLYING SAUCER RESEARCH SOCIETY Box 2004 G.P.O. Adelaide, South Australia, 5001 AUSTRALIAN FLYING SAUCER REVIEW P O BOX E170 St. James, Sydney 2001 Australia LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1969 AUSTRALIAN INTERNATIONAL UFO FLYING SAUCER RESEARCH INC. Box 2004 G P O Adelaide South Australia, 5001 PHONE: 08-272-3131 FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1952 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 AUSTRALIAN UFO BULLETIN: see VICTORIAN UFO RESEARCH SOCIETY AUSTRALIAN UFO ENCOUNTERS PO BOX 642 Parramatta NSW Australia PHONE: 02 96872506 or 02 97796843 E-MAIL: eagle1@flex.com.au FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs, abductions FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 AUSTRALIAN UFO REGISTRY Unit 2, 45 Parker Street Maroochydore, Queensland 4558 Australia CHRISTOPHER JENSEN, Director AFFIL: IUFOR LAST KNOWN YEAR: Summer 1976 AUSTRALIAN UFO REPORTS WEBSITE: http://www.networx.com.au/home/slider/ FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCHER P O Box 6 Lane Cove NSW, Australia, 2066 AUSTRALIAN UFO SIGHTINGS PAGE WEBSITE: http://yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au/~johno/ FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 AUSTRALIAN UNKNOWN ANIMALS RESEARCH CENTRE P O Box 473 Kootingal, NSW 2351 Australia (067) 787 201 REX GILROY LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 AWARENESS RESEARCH FOUNDATION, INC. DeSoto Square No. 29, 35 Ritter Road Hayesville, NC 28904 PHONE: 704-389-8672 HELEN I. HOAG LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 AXMINSTER LIGHT CENTRE 9 Hillhead Terrace Musbury Road Axminster, Devonshire EX13 5JL UK FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs, New Age FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1969 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1992 DAN AYKROYD E-MAIL: dan@psifactor.com FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs, parapsychology, fortean phenomena FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 AZTEC PUBLISHING Box 1142 Norcross, GA 30091 CATEGORY: Publishers PUBLISHES: UFO ENCOUNTERS LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1993
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Code of ethics From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:07:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:12:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of ethics > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > > > You didn't necessarily refer to any specific religion but each > > religion has its own spirituality (which it necessarily thinks is > > singularly right, with every other spirituality being specifically > > wrong). > I feel that this is a difference in terminology John. <grin> > In my view, Religions, denominations, sects etc. each have their > own particular DOGMA which to all too many equate to a > particular flavor of spirituality. Yet, I seriously question if > these constitute spirituality at all necessarily. You see to me, > true spirituality has NOTHING to do with religion. Down through > the ages John there have been many atrocities committed in the > name of this or that religion. Where I ask you is the > spirituality in committing inhumane acts John? Beats me!? (Not being religious or spiritual makes things like that just about impossible for me to understand...) > Spirituality in my view is an evolving condition within each of > us that is exemplified partially by our individual Humaneness. I agree with that but I'll also point that most religions would have a problem with that. Most religions don't really or directly acknwledge the humaness of humans as apart for their God. > Hopefully you get my point. I definitely understand the point. If we placed traditional religions at one end of the spectrum and so-called secular humanism at the other end of the spectrum then your definition of spirituality would be somewhere in the middle. > Thus, Religions are control mechanisms John. I won't argue that <grin>. > > That was extremely unfortunate and hopefully you've managed to > > undo most of that silliness. As we now know that individual wasn't > > an acceptable MHP to begin with. > Hahaha! I was branded anathema from the gitgo John. <grin> > I didn't for a second buy that hogwash and did my best in the > attempt to point out why I felt that it was pure baloney. I can > honestly relate that following a number of the get-togethers, I > was taken aside by a few and thanked for speaking out. I once > again challenge others who have experienced similar > circumstances to my own, to seriously question what are to me > the illusionary trappings provided by those who perpetrated the > circumstances in the first place. Its important to challenge yourself and your memories, its like a self-test. > > Most experiencers I've talked to would say something similar. > > The high strangeness of the experience, and various specific events, > > seem to stand almost as a contradiction to it being a 3D-real event. > Really. That hasn't yet been my experience. I don't mean to say they think it wasn't a 3D event, only that their memories of them are so _different_ from ordinary 3D events. > > That's largely the name of the game. Therapy can't, shouldn't > > and generally won't prove something right or wrong - just get you > > back in the game. In you case it was mostly self-therapy and you > > aren't the only person who mostly helped themselves. A non-trivial > > part of traditional psychology is helping you to become your own > > best therapist. > Yup! Kinda like hypnosis. <grin> Except safer... > > I understand that. And if you told your story to a person > > who's sanity you didn't question and that person was even moderately > > swayed that probably something _did_ happen to you, then you would > > have (maybe just a little tiny bit) demonstrated to yourself that > > you weren't crazy. > Okay, I see your point, you're correct. That's part of the self-testing. Its a productive element only p to the point where it shifts into non-challenging belief. > I believe that the abduction scenarios can be brought to a halt. > This does not necessarily mean that the encounters stop however, > it just means that their nature changes. There's been a few things written about that. Its an interesting angle that by doing some mental/spiritual work you can significantly influence an encounter. > > Perhaps you've had the experience of talking to someone about > > your experiences and (somehow, some way) they became _totally_ > > convinced that they were _positively_ real. Did their 110% > > acceptance, genuine as it may be to them, seem hollow or shallow to > > you? > Reserved. <grin> > But my friend, I fail to see how it could be any other way. HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Okay, I can accept that. > > And that's the problem. Traditional science would say that > > there's nothing wrong with the hardware, it performed exactly as it > > should, and it recorded no 3D events at all. Traditional psychology > > might then say that there's nothing wrong with the person either, > > but they _are_ suffering some trauma from what can _currently_ only > > be described as a nightmare. Maybe, in our example, we'd get lucky > > and there'd be something else, a physical marking or something, to > > complicate things. > Having said the above John and in consideration of the entire > exchange, perhaps you are getting a bit of a feel for what I was > referring to by the term 'awareness'. Some are consciously aware > of things within their surroundings within which others have no > cognizance. Therefore, these things are real to them on an > subtle experiential interactive way while to the others, there > is not an equal amount of perception. Yep, I understand that. So there has to be some way to move this off square one. Electronic monitoring may not (likely won't) _solve_ the issue but it may very likely focus research. > > I can convince myself using non-traditional approaches but I > > couldn't convince anyone else without them. > Agreed. Yet, your experience is not any less valid is it? > Most especially when you encounter others who independently > report nearly the exact same experience(s) under similar > circumstances. By "experience" I didn't mean an encounter or abduction, I meant the path through the data. Probably nobody can duplicate my approach, what I read, who I met, talked to and worked with, etc. But it can surely be closely approximated. Most people closely approximating that path can convince themselves based only on the circumstantial data that something is going on. They probably can't convince anyone else unless that other person takes a similar path through the data. A good example of that is a recent message in this List from Cathy. It was quite impassioned, emotional and powerful. Clearly she believes something is going on. Despite some techinal inaccuracies the impact (intent) of her message was to hope to cause readers to move in the direction of believing the possibility of so-called alien abductions. That's fine, so far as it goes. But without proof all we have is belief, which is simply not enough to cause most folks to move _beyond_ thinking of the events as merely possible. > > They've probably either successfully dealt with or made lots > > of progress dealing with their social and religious problems. It > > would be interesting to see how they did that but it would also be > > threatening to some folks here. > Perhaps they have never had these issues to deal with. > Perhaps they have never been exposed to emotional content due to > never having had that aspect within themselves. Perhaps they are > just now beginning to experience this and are experiencing a > beginning of it's development within themselves. I suggest that > were this not the case, they could ill afford perpetrating the > inhumane acts to which they reportedly have. Sure, that's possible I guess. We tend to think that no intelligent creature would do these things unless either they haven't confronted their compassionate/spiritual side -OR- they have and somehow dispensed with it. I guess either possibility works. Of course, if they _haven't_ encountered religion yet then they're in for a surprise when they get set upon by Earth's evangelists! > I just pointed out one of mine. I do not for a second buy that > these beings where ever and however they do get here, are far in > advance of us in aspects that really matter. > Another thing. I feel that despite the possibility that they may > possess superior weaponry for example, they have insufficient > numbers to take advantage of the slight increase in superiority. > Their only alternative it is clear, lies within manipulation to > gain their ends. Yeah, they obviously don't want to destroy the place, or maybe can't. > > Well, then we're screwed. Probably the single most common > > thread that runs through human society, politics, economics, and > > even religion is reaction instead of action (or pro-action). We > > wait for something to happen then we react to it instead of > > determining that something is going to happen and act on it. > I prefer to have faith and trust in spirit John. My mind just doesn't work that way. > > I don't think anything is going to change that in the near > term. > I do, but as inferred, many will be oblivious to the change. I don't understand how a change can occur without everybody realizing that it happenned. > > Yes, it should. It all starts with a police report. > Let me assure you that in this community, that would bring > nothing but contempt and ridicule. So, what's new about that? They still have official responsibilities they are required by law to fulfill. > > People don't like to admit they took a wrong turn especially > > if they'd been on that wrong turn road a long time. There clearly > > is a consensus-likde decision among most that this is a 3D, aliens > > in spaceships, deal and they exclude the paranormal (or sometimes > > explain it away with science fiction). > Then they play into the perpetrators hands In My Opinion. > Once one breaks out of this mold and is what is termed by some > an experiencer John, one notes a decided change in the content > of the experiences that occur after. Interesting. So the very nature of the experiences changes based on the thinking if the experiencer? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Carl Sagan From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 11:29:08 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:13:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan Ed Stewart said; >As it may, ufologists have Carl Sagan to thank for the preservation of the >BLUE BOOK files. An many, many other things. Although he was apparently 180 to his former self, this I feel was for good reason. I am much saddened that nature chose to withdraw the thread of life from him in the very times that are proving his early theories correct. Now that we no longer have Carl to pick on from time to time, I suppose we shall have to double up on James Oberg. ;) ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:37:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:08:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance > > Well, its been over a year since I saw the Santilli film but I was > > pretty sure there's a short part showing a guy on the other side of > > the window wearing a military uniform. > Are you sure the one you saw was the Santilli footage? There have > been some "recreations" floated around, and one of them does show a > sequence with a man in uniform in the window with the doctor. Yep, it must be one of the recreations I think I remember. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Possible 'UFO Experience'? From: Owen Morgan <ddraig@kuntrynet.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:08:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:07:51 -0500 Subject: Possible 'UFO Experience'? I have a question for anyone who can answer this. I just got a peace of information from my 14yr old brother. He said that around 5:45 Indiana time that he a strange noise, high pitch pulsating noise, it lasted about 20 seconds then it abruptly stopped. Then a few seconds passed and jet flew over. My question is if anyone lives in the northern Indiana area if they saw or heard anything strange last night? Now you will question the credibility of my brother, as he might have been sleeping, but I have had a similar experience. And I feel now with the InterNet I can get info on this, and that it needs to be investigated even though it might be a strange dream. I also asked him if it could have been a car revving its engine. This is what I think it is, but just in case I wanted some input from someone in the northern Indiana area in case they saw or heard something. Thanks Owen Morgan ddraig@kuntrynet.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Backlash From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:45:38 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:11:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Backlash Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Backlash Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 19:38:27 -0600 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Cathy, rfsignal@sprynet.com said; >>I hate being human and lost in a sea of other ignorant >>humans! > I resent that. I am an ignorant land deweler. Besides, I'm > scared of sharks and certain plankton tastes funny. Sorry that you thought you were hit upon, Pat. I was not over-generalizing to prod you. If you take offense, then don't because I apologize. What we have here is a failure to communicate. While it is one thing to see distant lights up in the sky, it is quite another to see those lights up close and in my face, actively and physically involving me in something that the scientific and political communities of the world devoutly refuse to acknowlege as even being possible. All of the coverups, illusions, hoaxes and denials of the past fifty years have only served to show that we as a species don't have what it takes to prove to our selves that there are infinite possibilities in the universe. I am tired of the bickering, slashing antics of the very ones who try to be on our side, trying to prove that there really is evidence of something going on. If my sightings and experiences fit within my mundane perceptions and understanding of the world, then I would have no fear of the nature of the conflicts that arise. I would have simple, blind motivations to explore and interact with the world around me. But such is not the case. I am convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that there is something going on, and that I have been a part of that. Whatever my story is, doesn't matter to me, because it is simply part of my life experiences. I don't care to convince anyone of the facts as I perceive them. Whether I glow in the dark, do odd things, or even have essesce of diesel fuel in my hair doesn't make any difference to me. But, it does to others who think that it does. Sorry, to think that I would care to prove anything to anyone, is wrong. I reached a point in my life where I simply don't care what anyone else thinks of or about me. I have a story to tell and that's all there is to it. If anyone cares to listen, then they can gleam whatever facts are pertinent to them for their own reasons. Life goes on as it does. Humanity will evolve more, religions and cults will flourish, scientists and politicians will retain their power, spectres of the past will continue to haunt and the abductions will continue. Humanity will do what it does to prepare for the day when we will openly encounter other lifeforms from the stars. Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Backlash From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:51:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:09:48 -0500 Subject: Backlash > From: rfsignal@sprynet.com > Subject: Backlash > I have been reading and reading about all of the thoughts, > concerns, evidences and so on about the topic of UFOology. > It leads me to wonder just what the .. is going on in the > thought processes of most humans. > Fact: there are people from all over the world who have only > one thing in common, that they were abducted, that they had > experiences that involved aliens, their craft, and their > equipment. They all have the basically similar stories to > tell. That's not entirely true or accurate. At a minimum we have 4 groups of people. Alleged abductees who have and have not been hypnotized, and alleged contactees who have and have not been hypnotized. Additionally, if you closely examin a number of these stories, especially from outside of North America, you will find that the bulk of the stories are not all that common. > Fact: These same people are being ignored. For the past > fifty years, there has been > NO.. repeat NO change in anything! > Those same experiencers have been investigated, > poked and prodded by the best of humanity after the fact > that they were poked and prodded by those aliens. So, where > is the information for all of those tests and investigating? This is simply not accurate. We have numerous samples of alleged alien handwriting yet there has been no analysis of that. We have examples of alleged alien-caused physical markings on humans yet there has been no analysis of that. We have what is claimed to be a reliable series of events in a person's life which are also cross-generational yet there has not been a credible attempt to use electronic monitoring. So, no, "the best of humanity" has not even come close to taking a real look at this problem. > Who is blindly leading who? For the past fifty > years, there have been the same incidents, same people, same > resulting abduction scenario. Can you believe it? The work I mentioned above, (handwriting analysis, physical mark analysis and electronic monitoring), are extremely simple. These are _basic_ steps in investigation. No, I don't believe it it all until we've at least done the basic work. > Just where does anyone who exhibits Post Abduction Trauma > syndrome go to get help for the host of problems and other > difficulties that they endure after the fact? Can they go > to the police? To the Lawyers? To the medical professionals? > To the local witchdoctor? Yes, they should see their doctor and a MHP. > Well, the best route so far has shown that the local > Witch Doctor is your best source of help and understanding > of the trauma that besets any abductee! I guess that depends on how you define 'help.' Maybe I only misperceived your linkage in the term "help and understanding..." A psychiatrist does not have to be a rape victim to successfully help rape victims. I suggest you spend some reading about abnormal psychology. I'm not suggesting that abnormnal psychology expleins so-called alien abductions. I am suggesting that the psychiatrist does not have know much if anything about the alleged scenario of so-called alien abductions to treat such people. > I hate being human and lost in a sea of other ignorant > humans! Perhaps you could express your apparent frustration in constructive ways? Write letters to the APA and to folks like Hopkins (Jacobs, Mack, etc.) and implore them to begin acting responsibly. Ask them why they haven't had the alleged alien handwriting analyzed. Ask them why they haven't had the alleged physical markings analyzed. Ask them why they haven't implemented electronic monitoring. I get a little frustrated with the status quo too but there's one thing on which I'm absolutely certain - abductee evangelizing alone will not convince the bulk of the population that alleged aliens are actually abducting people. We need real evidence, real research. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:08:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:10:46 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > > > I think it would be possible to treat the symptoms or treat > > the after-effects without having it previously established that > > alien abductions are real. > There may be some inherent problems here to overcome. Let us use > my case as an example. > I was beset with flashes of imagery that made absolutely no > logical sense, John. The only possible explanation that came to > mind in trying to make some sense of what I was experiencing was > that I had witnessed some possible violent confrontation behind > my van across the meadow after going out to it to go to bed for > the night. However, that didn't explain the apparent approaching > 'helicopter that made no noise' that preceded the vision of the > fuzzy, short people within the blinding blue/white light. > Moreover, it also didn't even begin to over any rationalization > for the inexplicable extreme emotional agitation that I was > experiencing in association with these flashes of memory. During > the three months between the onset of these flashes of memory > and my undergoing hypno-regression, it would be fair to state > that I was rapidly becoming an emotional basket case. These > circumstances were entirely intolerable considering my military > upbringing and certain training and opportunities that I was > afforded while in the military. I understand how it was unacceptable. > What I AM suggesting here is that in order to get to the bottom > line in this situation, hypno-regression was necessary. I > recognize however, that this would not necessarily be the case > in all instances. Many who are abducted seem to recall through > non-extraordinary means, a great deal of their experience. Some > are going to need this sort of tool in order to begin to get by > the fear. Psychology has other methods to accomplish things like that. Using hindsight we can look back at your experience and say that we don't think the hypnosis caused any problems and we do think it was beneficial therefore it worked for you. I can't argue with that <grin>. > > Whatever it turns out to be I'm pretty sure it will be > strange...<grin> > I sincerely hope that you never have the opportunity to > experience it. Well, that's a tough one. On the one hand were I to have similar experiences I'm sure I'd have a very difficult time regaining even a minimum of objectivity. (Not having had similar experiences, and having done some research/investigation in the past, its easy for me to be objective.) Its hard to predict how that would affect me. On the other hand, without having had those similar experiences I am missing a piece of the puzzle and I realize that. All things considered, if the choice was mine I'd rather struggle with subjective objectivity than struggle trying to understand what the experience is really like. > In the meantime John, I challenge any other abductee and/or > researcher to honestly set aside all of the assumptions and > adopted beliefs that have come about as a result of their > experience(s). > I truly feel that if they do not, then they run the risk of > being mere pawns and/or tools of the ones who perpetrated the > abduction(s) in the first place. I strongly feel that they are > placing themselves in a great amount of danger by insisting on > playing the helpless victim. They _aren't_ helpless victims. They can help themselves and other by demanding real research and investigation. > I suspect that there is something in common with all of these > folks who experience repeated abduction. A part of that I feel > lies in what I have suggested above. I feel that in order to > begin to make some real headway into what is in fact occurring, > these folks have to break out of the mold into which they have > placed themselves. That they have as I experienced something > decidedly strange, I have no doubt. But, at the same time I > realize that the perpetrators WANT to dictate to me the roadmap > of the experience. Based upon my post-abduction experiences > John, I have come to the tentative conclusion that these beings > can and do appear as they will and are masters of illusion. I > state this because both Julie and myself have witnessed some of > this with our own eyes. Well, just going by the standard thematic details 'they' seem to be able to do all sorts of seemingly magical things. > > The risk in thinking that nothing is happenning is the same as > > thinking something specific is happenning and being wrong. Whatever > > it is that's happenning doesn't apparently know or care what we > > think... > It has been my observance that the are smug in their own > abilities. They do care when they find that they themselves are > being observed John. They really put on a show of being > startled. Hahahahahaha!!!!! Interesting... > Wishing you and your wife the happiest of holidays on behalf of > Julie and Myself, Same to you two! -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 11:43:18 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:14:43 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' Clarke Hathaway said; > I have come to the tentative conclusion that these beings >can and do appear as they will and are masters of illusion. I concur, but in my case it's well beyond tentative. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Project 1947 - Hynek's Re-evaluation of Air From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:00:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:19:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - Hynek's Re-evaluation of Air Jan Aldrich ... you wrote: >Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:26:41 -0800 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> >Subject: Hynek's Reevaluation of Air Force Cases >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM ......... > INTERESTING CASES---AF INDENTIFIED > >DATE March 2, 1955 > >LOCAL TIME 2300Z (5:00 P. M.) > >LOCATION 10 mi. N. of Huntley, Illinois > ># OF OBJECTS 3 ......... - - - - - - JC: Thank you, Jan. Great job! Keep them coming. Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | jan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Carl Sagan From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:51:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:22:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan Regarding Carl Sagan and Dr. Boylan: While one should never speak ill of the dead, it would be disingenuous, indeed, for us all to start hurling bouquets now instead of brickbats. Lest we forget...for all the good Sagan may have done regarding Blue Book, he also made a mockery of folks like me; someone who encountered a UFO on a dark and lonely road through no fault of my own. And while I was struggling mightily to come to terms with the experience, he was doing everything in his considerable power to make me look like a fool, at best, and a liar, at worst. So forgive me, if, in the midst of all these post-mortems, I breathe a weary sigh of relief that the skeptics' numbers are dwindling. Jerry Washington SD KENTUCKY/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:57:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:22:06 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 In a message dated 96-12-20 10:08:17 EST, Stan Friedman wrote: >Quick follow up to previous about number of publications (I missed the >last paragraph). re Randle. " Kevin, would you care to match the amount of money >I have earned as a nuclear physicst doing consulting work in industry over the >past 25 years? How about just since l980? I take it your psychic powers >have told you what I earned doing what from whom just as they told you what Ike >was told about Roswell?? Phil Klass tried this one and lost. >Stan Friedman Match it with what? The amount of money you made as a UFO lecturer. I thought you were the only scientist employed full time in UFOlogy. Are you suggesting that you must supplement your income? Are you suggesting that you aren't employed full time in UFOlogy? Are you suggesting that you are a parttime nuclear physicist? I have already explained how we can determine what Eisenhower knew about Roswell and it involves deductive reasoning. Are you ready to answer the questions about MJ-12? KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:26:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:20:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass In a message dated 96-12-22 11:59:45 EST, Gary Alevy: << have enough information to formulate an opinion on that. Kevin Randle while in his twenties was a an APRO field investigator of the Patty Price case mentioned in the Lorenzen's "Abducted - Confrontations With Beings From Outer Space, chapter 2 pages 9-24. Berkley Publishing 1977. Was Kevin working for the Air Force Intelligence service at that time? >> My UFO investigations had no connection to my service in either the Army or the Air Force. In fact, I investigated the Price (real name Roach) abduction just after I finished college and before I entered active duty in the Air Force as a public information officer. Later I switched to intelligence, but again, it had nothing to do with UFOs. If you are concerned with Air Force intelligence infiltration of APRO, look to Bill Moore. In attempting to smear me, he wrote that he now (1990) suspected me of providing the Air Force with infomation because they were getting more than he, Moore, was giving them. The Lorenzens were always kind to me, supplying me with information to write articles, as long as I mentioned them and the organization. I had no trouble with that. I supplied nothing to the Air Force, or any other law enforcement or intelligence activity with any information about them or APRO. Hope this clarifies the situation. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: A Fake 'Whitley Strieber'..... From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:07:54 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:23:49 -0500 Subject: Re: A Fake 'Whitley Strieber'..... An astronomer on the forteana list discusses H-B... Bruce W. >Whitley Strieber insisted: >> >My position has not changed regarding this matter. In the Japanese >> >photograph, the star field behind both the comet and the object is >> >streaking. This because the 'scope is following the comet. It is also >> >following the object, which is not streaking either. >> >For all the shrill denials, the physics of the photograph remain clear: >> >object and comet must be traveling together. No amount of clever >> >"debunking" can change this elementary reality. Whether the object will >> >still be visible when the comet returns from its journey behind the sun >> >is anybody's guess. But it was there when that photograph was taken. >After reading this I went back to Art Bell's web page and took a closer look >at the Japanese photo that Strieber is referring to. First off, the comet >and the object, the two brightest objects in the photo, are over-exposed. >This would have been obvious right after the CCD image was taken, so who- >ever took this image should have gone right back and made a better image >right then. That we've only got this lousy image tells us something, I >think. >Second, either the object is eliptical or it's streaking. It looks >like it's extended in a slightly different direction than the starstreaks, >but it's overlapping the comet's coma which could effect the image that way, >particularly with the over-exposure. Starstreaks in each image are all the >same shape. The brighter the star, the larger the streak, but it's an >exact scale-up. The object isn't quite the right shape, but the ratio of >length in the streaking direction to width in the perpendicular direction >is just about right. An unfortunate coincidence if the object is real and >not a distorted star image. >So, I think this image is probably showing a distorted star image next to >the comet....
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:02:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:17:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance HI Theresa, Never one to keep my mouth shut, I'm going to butt in again. > <<It's what Bob may contribute as evidence which has to deemed credible or > otherwise.>> > How do you determine if the evidence is credible? What Bob says about > the Kodak testing is in conflict with what another well known researcher says. Check the "evidence" yourself. Or you can rely on someone you trust. > On December 4th, the SIGHTINGS show aired a new segment about the Autopsy > Footage. This segment featured testimony from Kent Jeffrey, Dan McGovern and > Joe Longo. > Kent Jeffrey stated in the broadcast: > "Kodak has been standing by since July 1995, waiting for the film. If > they were given only one or two frames, they could adequately analyze this > film, and determine one way or another whether it is genuine 1945 film." > ----snip--- > Note: I don't know why Kent said 1945, but he did. -T. > Bob Shell says Kodak wants or needs a couple of feet of film and would > prefer to have a whole reel. These two statements are in conflict with each > other. Is Kodak giving differing information to different people? Or are > one or both of these two researchers misleading the public? Below I will include an excerpt from Kent's SCAM article. It contains the same quote essentially. That article's date was March 1, 1996. Why is this news now? A better question to ask would be who has the most to gain by misleading anyone? Figure that one out and it might help you to understand who is _could_ be misleading who. As for Kodak giving different statements one could speculate that one "hears" the answer they want to hear. It would probably be best for you to contact Kodak yourself and see what they tell you. Here's an except from Kent Jeffrey's article "Santilli's Controversial Autopsy Movie": Eastman Kodak in Rochester, New York, has been standing by since July 1995 with an open offer to authenticate the film's date of manufacture. I confrimed this fact in a recent telephone conversation with Tony Amato, the Kodak motion-picture product specialist who would oversee the authentication process. Amato told me that Kodak has received repeated promises during th last six months from Santilli through an intermediary in the United States that film meeting the required criteria was "on its way." According to Tony Amato, while the short-term loan of a complete reel of film would be desirable, Kodak would be willing to work with as little as two or three frames. ..." [end excerpt]. With the exception of the 1945 statement (I haven't seen the program, so I don't know what this about) how does what Jeffrey said on "Sightings" differ from the article, published last March? Seems to me that these are not new claims by Jeffrey. Why are you now just raising this point? It was in April that Santilli said he would not work with Kodak. One could speculate that Santilli's announcement of distrust of Kodak in April was a direct result of Jeffrey's article. Perhaps Kodak finally made it so easy for him to provide the film that he decided that he needed a new excuse. I'm not saying that is what happened but the timing is interesting. Although Jeffrey's article was not footnoted much to the chagrin of Michael Hesemann, whom you congratulated on his article in Nexus, the Jeffrey article does quote Amato. He should not be hard to find. Check it out yourself. Phil Klass checked with Kodak (a spokesperson by the name of Jim Blamphin, if I remember correctly) and he was told the same thing. This was reported in one of Skeptics UFO Newsletter (probably April or May). And then there is the email that James and others have seen from Tony Amato at Kodak... how many times does Kodak have to say something before they can be taken serious? Or do we just keep making excuse for Poor Ray? > <<I've asked him to clarify exactly what he's implying and if he's seriously > suggesting, as it appears he is, that it's all part of some conspiracy.>> > I've never cared much for conspiracy theories. They are always too > convenient. But I have to say that I have seen some strange things related > on with this story that I don't know how else to explain. But a conspiracy theory is just what Ray needs at the moment. Looks like some are going to provide him with one. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:37:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:21:03 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Stan Friedman wrote: <Kevin: Now you are being ridiculous. I said that you had not referenced 29 <of 30 papers I had published about Roswell/MJ-12 in your long list in " The Truth <about UCR". That is a true statement.You said they were self published.That <is a false statement. I noted that there were 3 other papers that were indeed self <published.Meaning I wrote them and had them printed, and distributed them and <nobody else was involved.The profit has been as good as though I had been paid <to write them. Now you are defining self published as in a journal with a <circulation over 5000.Are you suggesting that all the other referenced papers <met that criteria?? Ex post facto statement. Nope. I'm suggesting that if you offer for sale copies of papers you wrote in the form of xeroxed copies, whether as copied from a limited access public source such as the IUR, or straight from your typewriter, then you are, in effect self-publishing those papers. They fact that IUR printed them first is irrelevent. If you are selling whole copies of the magazine in which they appeared, copies of books in which they might have appeared, then you are acting as a wholesaler for the material that has been published. Please don't misunderstand as you often do, I'm not criticising the self-promotion. You are the top master of it. I'm merely pointing out that your papers are self-published... and that includes the three to which you referred in this thread. <Did I say professional?No. You did.And I didn't say published in any <particular size journal. After all none of the MJ 12 papers referenced by ED Stewart fill <that bill, do they? I suspect that my long unreferenced by Ed paper in a book <edited by Tim Good does though.. and so does TOP SECRET/MAJIC. I clearly said <papers related to Roswell/MJ-12. The "more than 70 papers" cover many other <aspects of UFOs.Yes, of course Fate isn't the ultimate nor Saga. Nor UFO <Universe,(you have published there, too) but it has a larger circulation than <5000 as do both UFO Magazines.. That doesn't include nuclear papers in Atlantic <Advocate ,Ascent, Nickel, Transactions of the American Nuclear Society, <Science, etc. True, you said nothing about professionally published work. However, you did take Russ Estes to task for not being able to find all of your work, even though he was defending your point of view. His point, and mine, was the vast majority of your work is not readily available in the main stream. Besides, what did reading all your papers have to do with answering the legitimate questions raised. The magazines in which the lion's share of your work has appeared are not professional journals (please forgive the characterization Jerry and Dennis). And, you took Ed Steward to task for suggesting that JUST CAUSE had refuted some of your MJ-12 claims. You suggested that it was not a refereed science journal. You therefore brought an element of professionalism into the discussion. I merely picked up the ball and ran with it. The point of this thread, however, was not to discuss the finer points of self-published papers, but to address some questions about MJ-12 that haven't been adequately answered. I started this thread hoping to learn some of the facts about the investigation you have conducted, and see if we all couldn't find some common ground. After all, we are all searching for the truth. There has been no evidence presented that shows any type of governmental or military activity in the location now commonly referred to as Area 51 prior to 1955, and no evidence that the designation of Area 51 was in use prior to 1960. If such is the case, then the Operations Manual would seem to be a fake. In response you have suggested a secret facility there that we would know nothing about because it was secret. But you have offered nothing to substantiate this claim other than a "quiet" source which you disavowed within twenty-four hours. And, we do seem to know quite a bit about Area 51 even though it is still a secret facility. Jan Aldrich seems to have put together a long shopping list of problems with the Operations Manual that must be addressed. It seems that this manual was not created inside the government but was just another forgery offered to suggest the MJ-12 committee existed. No proof has been offered. We still have not dealt with the problem of the two question document experts you claim exist. You have offered no evidence that they exist or that we should accept their expertise in the matter. You have implied that you have a written report from one or both of them. I have offered to pay the copying costs, up to $50.00 American (for our Canadian friends that is merely a reference to the different rates of exchange and certainly is not meant as a comment on the economic health of Canada), for a copy of that report as long as it was not one created by Moore and Shandera, neither of whom are qualified document examiners. I have asked for any evidence that PT was wrong in is accessment of the Truman memo, including the fact he says the signature was lifted from a authentic Truman document and placed uncharacteristically low on the Truman memo. I have asked for any evidence that the typewriter used to draft the Truman memo existed prior to 1966. You know who PT is, you spoke to him, sent him copies of the MJ-12 documents, and then reveal nothing about his negative findings. These are the real questions that this thread was intended to answer, not comments about your self-published papers and endevors in the nuclear physics industry. <I am not trying to compete with you as a writer. Not many can. As you <know I have often mentioned in awe your more than 77 books of fiction. An <impressive mumber indeed. At least my works of fiction are clearly labeled as such. Too bad you can't make a similar comment. Or am I supposed to believe the fiction of Bill Brazel and the "n" word. I've never heard him use it. I was at the meeting with Berliner and didn't hear it there. And, I doubt that Berliner heard it. Besides, Bill Brazel has said that he never said it because all the people in the group that came to see him were white. Offer any evidence that Brazel did say there was a black, or admit that you made a mistake here in your attempt to support the collapsing Gerald Anderson nonsense. < Why not just say you made a mistake or should have <put <grin> after the phrase. If you really want a list. I will send one. I made no mistake here and wouldn't put a grin after it because there is nothing funny here. I haven't called you an agent of disinformation, nor have I written to your publisher suggesting that you had taken my work and used it as your own. I merely point to the Bill Brazel interview in your book, which I conducted with Bill Brazel in Feb. 1989, and you used, and altered at your whim. Seems to me that you took my work and published it as your own. Kevin, failing to grin, Randle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Carl Sagan From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:00:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:18:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:05:06 -0800 (PST) >Cc: ed.stewart@tgod.gigo.com (ed stewart) ...... >Not a well known fact regarding Carl Sagan's role and the UFO phenomena. - - - - - JC: Ed, that *was* quite interesting. Thank you. Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | egs |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Philip Mantle Needs Help From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 96 05:10:12 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:49:33 -0500 Subject: Philip Mantle Needs Help TO ALL LISTS. Dear Colleagues, I am still in search of a number of individuals whom I hope you might help me to locate. I am looking for either a mailing address, phone number or e-mail address of any or all of the following: Dewey Fournet. Al Chop. Robert White. Allen Hendry. Former Project Blue Book: Capt. Robert R. Sneider. Lt. Jerry Cummings. Lt Robert M. Olsson. Capt. Charles H. Hardin. Capt. George T. Gregory. Maj Robert J. Friend. Maj. Robert F. Spence. Lt Col. Lawrence J. Tacker. Maj Carl R. Hart. Any assistance in locating any of the above would be greatly appreciated and I would respectfully like to ask you to forward this on to anyone you think might be of help. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle. 1 Woodhall Drive, Batley, West Yorkshire, England, WF17 7SW. tele/Fax: 01924 444049. E-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 UFO UpDates and Victor Lourenco From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:50:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:50:26 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDates and Victor Lourenco As you are not capable of conforming to common courtesy in passing information via UFO UpDates to a list of addresses largely compiled by UFO UpDates, a list of addressees who have not requested your mailings, you will no longer receive UFO UpDates. Your address has been removed from the List. Presumably you wish to avoid messages of complaint to the postmaster@interlog.com by not continuing to mass-mail unsolicited messages? Errol Bruce-Knapp, UFO UpDates List Administrator.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Mars Anomaly Research 1996 - 03/03 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:23:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:23:07 -0500 Subject: Mars Anomaly Research 1996 - 03/03 1. In the December, 1972 issue of the journal Spaceflight G. V. Foster presented a paper which cogently argued that given the movement of the solar system as it circles the galactic center, periodically bringing the sun and its planets into new stellar neighborhoods, the probability that the solar system has already been visited by interstellar travelers indicates anywhere from 108 visits (assuming an effective travel range of 25 light years) to 11,200 visits (for a travel range of 250 light years). Foster's carefully worked out probability ratings roughly agree with the view of noted Astronomer Carl Sagan, who in 1963 concluded that on the basis of probability projections the solar system is likely to have been visited on an average of once every ten thousand years. Both Sagan and Foster indicate their interest in the possibility that such visitors may have left artifacts behind on other planets of the solar system. The same conclusion was put forward in 1960 in a report commissioned by NASA from the Brookings Institution in Washington DC. That report stated:"Many cosmologists and astronomers think it very likely that there is intelligent life in other solar systems...artifacts left at some point in time by these life forms might possibly be discovered through our space activities on the Moon, Mars, or Venus." 2. Dr. Van Flandern's paper may be seen on the Planetary Mysteries page. 3. Channon's work is described in The Face on Mars by Randolfo Pozos, and in The Monuments of Mars by Richard C. Hoagland. 4. See "Mars Global Surveyor Priorities" for a chart showing the fractal result. 5. Crater, Horace W. and McDaniel, Stanley V., "Mound Configurations on the Martian Cydonia Plain." (1996) 6. Richard C. Hoagland in The Monuments of Mars (North Atlantic Books, 1987, 1992). 7. In a study under the National Academy of Sciences National Research Council in 1964-65 we find the following: "The detection of highly ordered structures on the Martian surface would certainly pinpoint areas deserving closer study." And in 1967 William Blair, an anthropologist in the Boeing Company's biotechnology unit, considered the question of determining possible artificiality in spacecraft images. According to Blair's suggested criterion, angular relationship as a sign of intentional design would be, at a minimum, the presence of regular polygonal form or the presence of a "right angle coordinate system," or both. 8. See "New Research Suggests Artificiality" and "Is this the Signal in the Noise?" in this newsletter.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Are The Mars Meteorites Really From Mars? From: The Planetary Mysteries Web Site Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:03:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:03:32 -0500 Subject: Are The Mars Meteorites Really From Mars? http://www.planetarymysteries.com/marsmeteorites.html Are The Mars Meteorites Really From Mars? Tom Van Flandern Meta Research In August 1996, NASA scientists announced the discovery of possible microscopic bacterial life remnants in a meteorite found in Antarctica in 1984, named ALH84001. There have been previous reports of "biogenic hydrocarbons" and other life indicators in earlier meteorite studies. But this was the first evidence of primitive extraterrestrial life that had little chance to be the result of terrestrial contamination. ALH84001 belongs to a class of meteorites suspected of having an origin on the planet Mars. Originally, the primary argument for a Mars origin of this whole class of meteorites was: The 12 "Mars" meteorites show water erosion and weathering, cooling rates, oxygen isotope ratios, and other geological evidence from their pre-Earth existence that requires an origin on a major planet parent body, not of asteroidal, cometary, or Earth origin. Mars is the only known existing parent body that meets most of the necessary constraints. However, the situation is not so clear as the preceding argument might imply. The general class that the 12 Martian meteorites belong to is called "achondrites". This class name was intended to contrast these meteorites with the most common variety of stony meteorites, called "chondrites", that make up 84% of all meteorite falls found on Earth. Achondrites comprise just 8% of all such falls. Within the achondrite classification, many distinct sub-types are recognized. Three of these sub-classes represent the 12 meteorites suspected of coming from Mars: shergottites, nakhilites, and cassignites. All meteorites closely related to these three types are collectively known as SNC meteorites from the initials of the three sub-class names. These are the meteorites showing water erosion, weathering, and other evidences of origin on a major planet. The first problem with ALH84001 is that, while it is broadly similar to other SNC meteorites, it is chemically distinct enough that it does not fit easily into any of the existing sub-classes. In particular, its crystallization age is about 4.5 billion years (Gyr), similar to that of most meteorites from asteroids, but much older than all other meteorites associated with Mars (typically only 1.3 Gyr). The uniqueness of ALH84001 has led meteorite experts to propose a new sub-class called "allanites", and to add the letter "A" to the group designation, making it "SNAC" meteorites. But this proposal is not yet widely accepted. However, because ALH84001 is somewhat different from other SNC meteorites, a common Martian origin for ALH84001 is inferred purely by association, and not by direct evidence of a Martian connection in the meteorite itself. The reasoning is to assume that "if one SNC meteorite is from Mars, then they all are." Next, lets examine some of the requirements imposed on these 12 SNC meteorites if they did indeed originate on Mars. A meteorite from Mars must escape the Martian gravity field. This implies a launch speed greater than 5 km/s to exceed escape velocity. Such projectile velocities can result only from the largest of asteroidal impacts on Mars, and certainly cannot arise from even the largest volcanoes, or any other known acceleration mechanism. The meteorite-to-be must be suddenly accelerated from rest to at least 5 km/s as the impact blast wave passes, but without vaporizing. It is easy to compute the amount of energy that must be transferred to the meteorite, and the short time it has for its acceleration to escape speed. Small bodies the size of ALH84001 would normally be completely vaporized by such a shock wave transferring that much energy that quickly, and any surviving fragments of a rock barely big enough to partially survive vaporization would themselves be heavily shocked. Meteorites associated with a lunar origin, for example, apparently all had ejection velocities under 3 km/s, with survival rate decreasing sharply at the higher ejection speeds. [B.J. Gladman, J.A. Burns et al., "The exchange of impact ejecta between terrestrial planets", Science 271, 1387-1392 (1996).] ALH84001 was neither vaporized nor heavily shocked. So the rock initially ejected from Mars by the impact must have been huge compared with ALH84001, which itself must have been well-shielded deep in the interior of the larger rock. The requirements to eject relatively large rocks at speeds of at least 5 km/s with minimal shock, and the other physical and chemical constraints for SNC meteorites, place a lower limit on the size of the crater on Mars produced by the responsible Mars-impacting asteroid: at least 175 km in diameter. [A.M. Vickery and H.J. Melosh, "The large crater origin of SNC meteorites", Science 237, 738-743 (1987).] Scenarios for ejection during the formation of smaller craters are all problematical. The only craters that large on the surface of Mars are on the "old terrain", dated at least 200 million years (My) old. So the launching impact must have been at least that long ago, and the ALH84001 parent rock must have been orbiting in space for at least that long. Objects in Earth-crossing or near-Earth-crossing orbits have a half-life of just 30 My before collision with the Earth or gravitational elimination. (Common types of gravitational elimination:ejection from solar system; ejection into Jupiter-crossing orbit, collision with Jupiter; or falling into the Sun.) Almost nothing that orbits near the Earth can survive for 200 My. So the initial ejection orbit must not have come especially close to Earth. ALH84001 has been exposed to cosmic rays in space for just 15 My. This appears to contradict the previous requirement. But a consistent picture can be patched together by assuming that the parent rock of ALH84001 the one launched from Mars in the giant impact had to be at least 12 meters in diameter to shield the Mars meteorite deep in its interior from cosmic rays for most of its life. This is also consistent with the need to have a large parent body to prevent vaporization and shield ALH84001 from shock. This larger parent rock presumably had an orbit that did not venture too close to the Earth, but perhaps took it into the main asteroid belt. Then the parent rock must have been shattered 15 My ago in a collision with another sizable asteroid, exposing the ALH84001 fragment directly to cosmic rays thereafter, and altering its orbit to an Earth-crossing one. Finally, ALH84001 must have collided with the Earth and fell in Antarctica about 13,000 years ago, where it was discovered in 1984. It is noteworthy that the standard picture requires that all SNC meteorites presumably must have undergone a similar scenario, yet they must still fall to Earth during modern times more often than meteorites launched from the Moon by impacts, since "Mars" meteorites outnumber "Moon" meteorites. But with no better alternative explanations acceptable to the mainstream available, the Martian origin scenario went largely unchallenged. So it came as no surprise when one meteorite researcher produced a plot of a chemical analysis of trapped gas samples from another SNC meteorite, EETA79001, showing an almost perfect match to samples of Martian atmosphere gases taken by the Viking spacecraft. [R.O. Pepin, "Meteorites Evidence of Martian origins", Nature 317, 473-475 (1985).] Non-meteorite-experts may be forgiven for not considering what was not shown: The log-log plot hid the size of the discrepancies for individual gases. Gases were selectively plotted only for cases of relative agreement. No comparison plots to show how well the same data fit gas compositions for other source bodies, or solar system averages in general, was presented. This highly misleading paper is the original source of the assertion, quoted often in the media of late, that the case for a Mars origin was based on an "almost perfect match" with Viking samples of Martian atmospheric gases. Lets examine this match in detail. [This data is mainly from D. Bogard, "Trapped noble gases in the EETA79001 meteorite", Meteoritics 17, 185-186 (1982); R.H. Becker and R.O. Pepin, "The case for a Martian origin of the shergottites; nitrogen and noble gases in EETA79001", Earth Planet.Sci.Lett. 69, 225-242 (1984); H.Y. McSween Jr., "What we have learned about Mars from SNC meteorites", Meteoritics 29, 757-779 (1994).] Carbon dioxide (CO2) is the most abundant gas on Mars by far. Yet its relative abundance in the meteorites is but a tiny fraction of its abundance on Mars. So instead, investigators have concentrated on an isotopically heavy form of carbon that is present in similar abundances on Mars to within the broad error limits of the Viking measures. Similarly for nitrogen only the isotopically heavy form has a reasonable match between Viking and the meteorite. Yet at least one carbonaceous chondrite meteorite that nobody associates with Mars has a similar heavy nitrogen abundance. The EETA 79001. Two key ratios in the comparison are shown in the table below. Values are listed for SNC meteorite EETA79001, Earth, and Mars. Since these ratios are very different from those in ordinary meteorites, they are the core of the case for a Martian origin. But as the Earth data shows, they do not really distinguish origin on Mars from origin on any terrestrial-type planet. - - - - - - - - - - - - 40Ar / 36Ar - - - - 129Xe / 132Xe EETA79001 - - - - -1650 - - - - - - - - -2.0 Earth - - - - - - - - - - -296 - - - - - - - - -0.98 Mars - - - - - - - - - - 3000 - - - - - - - - -2.5 This, then, is the "nearly perfect match" cited by the media. The reality is that no gases match between Mars and meteorites well enough to be persuasive of a specifically Martian origin. Excuses must be invoked for the lack of a better match for each individual gas abundance or ratio: contamination from Earth's atmosphere, seepage from the meteorite, alteration during shock or acceleration, alteration by water or weathering, etc. The case for a Martian origin is really a case based on a lack of a suitable alternative. Regular readers of the Meta Research Bulletin [MRB available from Meta Research, P.O. Box 15186, Chevy Chase, MD 20825] will not be surprised to learn of the alternative we suggest. Extensive evidence exists for the explosion of one or more bodies in or near the asteroid belt during the past half billion years of solar system history. [T. Van Flandern, "Dark Matter, Missing Planets and New Comets", North Atlantic Books, Berkeley, Ch. 11 (1993); see also "A revision of the exploded planet hypothesis", MRB 4, 33-42 (1995).] Since the explosive break-up of a larger body solves all the dynamical problems involved in delivery of the life-bearing meteorites to Earth in recent times, it should not be ignored as a viable possibility for the origin of these meteorites. As may be seen in the last reference cited, I associate the K/T boundary in the geological record on Earth with the achondritic meteorites in general, with the S-class asteroids, and with the explosion of a former terrestrial-class "Planet V" in the inner asteroid belt. In fact, this association is consistent with all the facts cited in this article regarding the origin and nature of the SNC meteorites. No low probability acceleration-to-escape-speed-from-Mars-without-vaporization event is needed. Of course, some astronomers still insist, contrary to much evidence, that planetary explosion events must themselves be of low probability. So achondritic and stony-iron meteorites in general, and SNC meteorites in particular, might be the small remaining residue of objects injected into Earth-crossing orbits perhaps 65 My ago by a planetary explosion. Planet V must have been a terrestrial-type planet with extensive water oceans and a thick atmosphere on which at least primitive life arose. And a continuing residue of fragments from that former planet still occasionally fall on Earth today at a greater rate than meteorites from recent, small lunar impacts. The cosmic ray exposure age was still probably altered by exposing fresh material in a secondary collision-in-space event; but there is no longer a need for the solar orbit of the meteorite to be significantly altered by this collision, which allows a much smaller impacting object to accomplish the secondary break-up. One remaining point deserves comment. Although the trapped gases in one SNC meteorite were no "exact match" to Mars, they were arguably closer to Mars than anything else existing today. Is that coincidence? Perhaps not, even in this alternative scenario. I did not have SNC meteorites in mind when I wrote the following last year. Rather, I was considering other evidence about Mars from the Titius-Bode law, the spin-rate of Mars, the planet's relatively small mass, and other cosmogonic considerations. I was trying to fit Mars into an evolving picture of the early solar system that included "Planet K" and "Planet V", plus the other planet-moon relationships discussed at length in "Dark Matter, Missing Planets and New Comets". I wrote, "And this [explosion of Planet V] may have been the event that delivered large quantities of water to the inner solar system, most notably to Mars (which may have still been one of Planet V's moons at the time of the explosion)." [MRB 4, 39 (1995).] That seemed a logical, but hardly compelling, possibility at the time. Since then, I have become better acquainted with the evidence for a strong hemispheric asymmetry for Mars (thanks to Jim Erjavec), with one hemisphere having most of the fresh, young craters and evidence for flowing water, and the other being apparently much older. The northern lowlands apparently sit on thin Martian crust, and the older southern uplands on thick crust. Moreover, the center of mass of the red planet is offset from its center of figure by the anomalously large amount of 3 km. [Icarus 93, 386-393 (1991).] Moreover, a strong case has been made that the crust of Mars has shifted by of order 90 degrees relative to the spin axis. [Scientific American 253, December, 94-102 (1985).] And Mars has lost the bulk of its original atmosphere. [J.Sci.Exploration 10, 355-361 (1996).] Both of these features are predictable consequences for the moon of a planet that explodes: The thickest part of the crust would tend to shift until it was nearly centered on the spin axis, and most the the original atmosphere would be blown away. All these features readily fit into a picture of Mars as a moon of Planet V when the latter exploded. One side of Mars would have been heavily impacted by the explosion, and would have accumulated much water on a temporary basis. The former planetary crust on that side would be largely destroyed, with a consequent shifting of the center of figure of the planet. Since all these unexplained anomalies actually exist on Mars, the fact that they fit so well into this scenario argues that it probably has at least an element of correctness to it. But then not only was a significant portion of Mars's atmosphere blasted away by the event, but gases and outgassing materials from Planet V would have been added to the new mix. So the present Martian atmosphere would be a mixture of its original atmosphere and gases from Planet V. This virtually guarantees that samples of Martian atmosphere today and samples of gas bubbles in meteorites from Planet V would bear a resemblance beyond chance. So I suggest for your consideration that the life-bearing meteorites originated on the former fifth planet of the solar system, Planet V, that exploded perhaps 65 million years ago, causing the demise of dinosaurs and many other species on Earth as a consequence. One day soon, Mars sample return missions will be able to test various elements of this idea directly. The hypothesis also predicts that, when we can do more comprehensive geology on the Moon, a lunar counterpart of the K/T boundary layer on Earth will be found there. In the meantime, I do not see an obvious terrestrial test that might be done unless, by serendipity, some investigator were to find trapped gas bubbles in, say, tektite glass found in the K/T layer on Earth, or some such fortuitous discovery. Return to The ALH 84001 Meteorite NASA Site The EETA 79001 Meteorite NASA Site Go to Planetary Mysteries Home Page
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Mars Anomaly Research 1996 - 02/03 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:48:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:48:59 -0500 Subject: Mars Anomaly Research 1996 - 02/03 If the Face is an artificial construct and the expression of a culture, it could be predicted with some reasonableness that it would be found in a context of other objects possibly artificial origin. There are indeed several landforms near the Face that have been singled out as enigmatic. Much of the earlier work on evaluating such objects is highly qualitative in nature and although highly suggestive is in my opinion inconclusive, . However, in the past three years new data has emerged that places the Face in a context of other, extremely enigmatic objects. As a result of this research there is no longer any question as to the presence of anomalous structures in the vicinity of the Face. In what follows I will give a brief summary of that research. The Search for Context After the Mars Observer spacecraft failed in 1993, several scientists in the United States undertook to develop new lines of research using the available Viking data. The result of this work was four papers, three of which have since been presented before the Society for Scientific Exploration in its 1995 and 1996 conferences. These four papers have approached the subject from the perspectives of geology, statistical and geometric analysis, image processing, and archaeology. 1. The Mounds Research One of the most impressive of these projects is that carried out by Dr. Horace W. Crater, a physicist at the University of Tennessee Space Institute.[5] In my opinion his research constitutes a major turning point in the history of this investigation. In 1994 Dr. Crater began studying a group of relatively smaller features occupying an open plain southwest of the Face. We call these features "mounds" although they are actually small hills about 100 feet high These "mounds" stand out from the surrounding land forms because of their smaller size, their uniform appearance, and their relative brightness. Dr. Crater's attention had been drawn to these mounds because an earlier experimenter had noted that three of these objects appeared to form a regular isosceles triangle; while two of them in conjunction with a fourth appeared to form a right triangle.[6] Geometric regularity, especially if not readily accountable by geological forces, has been proposed in several discussions as a possible indicator of artificiality.[7] What Dr. Crater found was a definite geometric regularity, in that two particular kinds of triangles appear in the geometric relationships between these mounds with a frequency so far beyond the possibility of random occurrence that their having been distributed by random geology is a virtual impossibility. Dr Crater's detailed, careful evaluation, based on elaborate computer simulations and statistical calculations, indicates odds of greater than 200,000 Million to one against the possibility of random distribution.[8] 2. Archaeological Corroboration In 1995 Dr. James F. Strange, an archaeologist and Professor of Religious Studies at the University of South Florida, applied a separate and independent test of the mound distribution based on techniques used in archaeology. His result was to corroborate Dr. Crater's claim that the mound distribution is non-random. 3. Geological Corroboration And also in 1995, Mr. James Erjavec, a geologist who had recently completed the first detailed geological map of the region, stated that while taken individual the mounds would appear to be natural, given their evident non-random distribution they constitute a profound geological enigma. No known geological forces, he stated, can account for the observed geometry. 4. A Cultural Rationale Also in 1995, I made a small contribution to this research. I noticed that the geometry of the mounds uncovered by Dr. Crater corresponds closely to an ideal of harmonious proportions that plays a role in ancient archaeology, including proportions found in some of the Egyptian pyramids. Furthermore, the particular harmonious geometric pattern involved is a sophisticated representation of the internal geometry of the solid figure known as the tetrahedron. Thus the geometry discovered among the Cydonian mounds has not only a possible cultural rationale but also a coherent mathematical one as well. This is a significant result, since if the geometric configuration had no discernible meaning we might be more ready to discount it as some kind of massive coincidence. What Dr. Crater found, however, was not only a statistical and geological anomaly, but an anomaly that has an recognizable meaning in at least two areas of discourse -- architectural and geometric. Note that the similarity of geometry between the Cydonian mound pattern and certain aspects of ancient terrestrial architecture does not imply a connection of causality between possible Martian and Earth cultures. However, since mathematics and geometry are universal means for the expression of proportion, scale, and relationships, what is implied is a possible cultural or symbolic meaning for the Cydonian mound configuration. The NASA Problem Although non-random distribution is not proof of artificial origin, it is proof of the existence of a striking and unexplained anomaly. That this anomaly occurs in the region of the Face, in close association with other structures also suspected of being possibly artificial, and that the anomalous distribution of the mounds has an identifiable architectural and geometric meaning, tells us that this is a site requiring close and active attention by our scientists -- which means NASA scientists, since there are no other currently viable investigations of Mars in progress. So what is NASA's response to this careful and provocative research? To ignore it. Grudgingly, in the face of many letters of protest, NASA has claimed it will "try" to obtain new images of Cydonia with the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft currently on its way to Mars; but the only reason offered for this is that there is a general public interest in the question of the Cydonian objects. As far as NASA is concerned, these objects have little or no scientific interest. And as scientific interest is the criterion NASA adopts for the priorities it assigns to the high-resolution camera on board the Surveyor, no significant priorities are assigned to obtaining images of the objects in question. The result may well be that although NASA promises to "try," objects with higher priorities will pre-empt new images of the Cydonian objects. Indeed, NASA has said that if new images are not acquired during the Surveyor mission, they may be yet obtained in future missions over the next decade. This comment appears to be preparing the way for an utter failure by NASA to re-image these objects this time around. NASA does not appear ready to acknowledge the work of the dedicated scientists whose results I have just summarized. In all of NASA's statements to date there has never been a single mention of the names of the legitimate researchers or of the papers they have published. Instead NASA has regularly attempted to give the public the impression that only a handful of eccentric amateurs has ever proposed that anything on Mars may be artificial. What can be done about this situation? Not much, I am afraid. However, if the public outcry becomes great enough both nationally and internationally, this could conceivably have some effect. To this end, I encourage every concerned individual to write to NASA, and to U.S. President Clinton, asking that the priorities for re-imaging the Cydonia region be raised significantly. Note that the focus must be on the priorities. It is only by changing the priorities that we may be assured every effort will be made to find out the truth.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Mars Anomaly Research 1996 - 01/03 From: 'The McDaniel Report Newsletter' Website Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:47:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:47:42 -0500 Subject: Mars Anomaly Research 1996 - 01/03 http://www.mcdanielreport.com/manchstr.htm MARS ANOMALY RESEARCH The Current Situation NOTE: The following is the full text of an address delivered by Professor Stanley V. McDaniel to a convention in Manchester, England on December 7, 1996. The convention was sponsored by Amateur Astronomy and Earth Sciences Magazine and was presented by remote audio link. Copyright =A9 1996 by Stanley V. McDaniel The Meteorite Evidence for Life on Mars In 1966 an Hungarian scientist, Dr. Barthalamew Nagy (pron. Naazh), began looking closely at meteorites believed to be about 4 billion years old. These visitors from outer space had been found in a variety of locations: Canada, France, Africa. In 1975 Dr. Nagy came to the conclusion that the compounds and small objects found in these meteorites would "confidently be assumed to be of biological origin" if thought to have originated on the= Earth.=20 Unfortunately Dr. Nagy's decade-long work was dismissed on the grounds that one of the meteorites he had studied appeared to have been contaminated by Earthly biological entities.=20 However, in the early 1990's two American investigators, Mr. Vincent DiPietro and Dr. John E. Brandenburg, studied Nagy's work and began their own investigation of the meteorites. They reported their work, supportive of Dr. Nagy's, at the American Geophysical Union conference in 1995.=20 Scientists Brandenburg and DiPietro had a specific interest in the question whether an environment conducive to the evolution of life can have existed on Mars for a period sufficient to give rise to intelligent life-forms. Along with another researcher, Gregory Molenaar, they put forward in 1991 "The Cydonian Hypothesis." This is the hypothesis that certain structures on Mars, most of them in the region called "Cydonia," may possibly have been built by an indigenously evolved race of Martians. Should the meteorite evidence for microbial life be sustained, they believe that the time period for evolution on Mars would have been sufficient to give rise to intelligent beings.=20 Given the possibility of a long time period during which Mars was capable of supporting life, is there any reasonable evidence for the hypothesis that Mars may once have been occupied by intelligent beings?=20 I say occupied because even were the time period too short for the evolution of intelligent beings this would not rule out occupation of Mars in the distant past by a spacefaring race. It is a premise of the SETI investigations that intelligent life is likely to be present throughout the galaxy. It has even been speculated, based on probabilities, that our solar system may have been visited on repeated occasions by interstellar travelers. Included in these speculations has been the further suggestion that eventually we may encounter artifacts left behind by such visitors.[1]= =20 Another scenario that has been suggested is the rather tenuous view that visitors to Mars may have come from the Earth itself, at a time when some presently unknown civilization of intelligent humanoid beings existed here, millions of years ago.=20 The Fourth Possibility: Planet V And now there has been added to this mix of theories a fourth possibility. In a paper titled "Are the Mars Meteorites Really from Mars?" Dr. Thomas van Flandern, an astronomer and former director of the Celestial Mechanics Branch of the U.S. Naval Observatory, argues that although the meteorites do seem to show their origin in a life-bearing planet, possibly that planet was not Mars. Instead, Mars was the Moon of this other planet, which exploded about 65 million years ago. He calls this other planet "Planet V," and suggests that its destruction was the source of the asteroid belt now circling the Sun between Mars and Jupiter.[2]=20 Pointing out that there are serious problems in explaining how the meteorites were tossed off the surface of Mars, Dr. van Flandern says "The explosive breakup of a larger body solves all the dynamical problems involved in the delivery of life-bearing meteorites to Earth." Van Flandern argues that this scenario explains several characteristics of Martian geology: "One side of Mars would have been heavily impacted by the explosion and would have accumulated much water on a temporary basis." The theory also explains the similarity between various features of the meteorites and the present Martian environment.=20 But if Dr. van Flandern's hypothesis is correct, then a fourth possibility is that visitors from Planet V were the builders of the Cydonian structures. Even if intelligent humanoids on Planet V had relatively primitive means of space flight, some of them could have reached their moon (Mars), established a colony, and built the large structures some now suspect of being= artificial.=20 Given the cogent argument regarding the origin of the meteorites which Dr. van Flandern sets forth, it seems that the meteorites may be better evidence for the existence of Planet V than for previous life on Mars. And since the hypothetical Planet V would have been Earth-like and a member of our own solar system, the probability of humanoid life evolving on such a planet is perhaps greater than for such evolution in the unknown regions of interstellar space.=20 The Problem of the Face So the question is this: Have such artifacts -- either originating with interstellar visitors, constructed by indigenously evolved Martians, or by an unknown terrestrial civilization, or by the former inhabitants of Planet V -- been discovered already via the Viking cameras which, in 1976, sent back images of the curious objects in the Cydonia region?=20 And here we run up against a serious difficulty. Science requires objectivity. But the Martian data found at Cydonia puts a tremendous strain on our objectivity. Indeed, for some scientists objectivity appears to fly out the window. Why is this? Certainly it is because one of the objects looks like a gigantic sculpture of a face.=20 The present Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) keeps alien life at a comfortable distance. The search is confined to stellar regions outside the solar system, and our contact with intelligent alien life is anticipated to be in the form of an antiseptic series of prime numbers. Thus the SETI astronomers can comfortably converse by radio transmission with alien astronomers who, perhaps somewhat in the former's own image, are effectively disembodied minds. And these cosmic pen pals are so far away that their bodies, their arts, their emotions, and their personal= motivations can be easily ignored -- In the eyes of some, this is the ideal scientific conversation.=20 But the Face on Mars is in an entirely different category. Though undoubtedly hundreds of thousands if not millions of years old, it has presence. Such presence, indeed, that anthropologist Randolfo Pozos wrote: "When people first see it, there is, almost always, a strong visceral reaction." Indeed, reactions to the existence of the Face are usually strong, but they vary widely. At one extreme are those who refuse to admit that it even looks like a face. Others have gone to the opposite extreme: This is proof, they say, that humanoid aliens once inhabited Mars.=20 Certainly it is not proof. But there is a reasonable middle ground. Responsible scientists may choose to encounter this admittedly strange object scientifically, that is to say, place it under investigation. Apply tests which could turn out negative and weaken the hypothesis that the object may be artificial, or turn out positive and strengthen that hypothesis. This responsible and objective approach, I am sad to say, has been utterly rejected by the scientific community as a whole. However, a few scientists and engineers have chosen to follow the appropriate response:= careful study, hypothesis, and test.=20 Tests Performed on the Face Let us consider, for a moment, those tests that have been performed on the Face and what their results have been.=20 1. Light and Shadow=20 It is the stated conclusion of NASA scientists that the facial appearance is a "trick of light and shadow" -- an illusion of lighting. This conclusion was based on the alleged fact that in other images, taken at a different lighting angle, the facial characteristics "disappear."=20 Unfortunately the NASA opinion is not a scientific one. When pressed on the matter NASA has admitted that the disconfirming images, alleged to have existed for almost two decades, cannot be identified. There is no scientific support for the "illusion" hypothesis.=20 In my book The McDaniel Report I pointed out that besides the fact that there is no evidence for the "trick of lighting" theory, there are also serious logical flaws in this NASA position. Apparently as a result of these criticisms Dr. Carl Sagan, in a recent book, stated that NASA's "light and shadow" position was an unfortunate error. In so doing, Dr. Sagan finally abandoned his own long-standing view as expressed in his 1985 article "The Man in the Moon" in Parade Magazine. He now confirms what independent investigators have validated many times over. Three separate tests, from the areas of image processing (using a sophisticated technique called photoclinometry), geology, and sculptural modeling, working with the primary two Viking frames taken at different lighting angles, have confirmed that the face is a result of the underlying=20 three-dimensional structure of the landform and not an illusion of lighting.= =20 2. Chance Erosion=20 So the object is undoubtedly shaped as it appears to be. This certainly does not prove that it is artificial; but what has been shown is that the Face passes its first test. Yet perhaps, even though it is indeed shaped like a Face, this is merely an accident of erosion. Against this hypothesis four major tests have been performed. In each case the tests turn out positive.= =20 The first test is the result mentioned above, that the facial appearance is a result of a three-dimensional structure and is not a face only when seen from a particular angle.=20 The second test is the observation of general symmetry. Relatively speaking the Face is a highly symmetrical object. The mouth continues to the darker side of the Face, the "headpiece" or "helmet" shows a noticeable symmetry, there are two eye sockets, and so forth.=20 The third test was performed by an artist with anthropological training. James Channon studied the Face from the viewpoint of the classical proportions and relationships as indicated in art and anthropology. His assessment was that the Face does not violate classical humanoid proportions in a number of parameters. This differentiates the Face from various chance features resembling faces.[3]=20 The fourth test is the presence of fine detail. At least three particularly compelling items, which one would not expect from on the hypothesis that the facial appearance is simply a product of erosion, have been identified. These are the fine detail around the eye, an apparent "pupil" in the eye socket, and the apparent "teeth" in the Face's mouth.=20 With each such detail, consistent with a Facial interpretation and inconsistent with the theory of chance wind erosion, the probability that the Face is a product of wind erosion is decreased. One would have to advocate a kind of "selective erosion" to maintain that view.=20 Yet these details might still be the result of some remarkable coincidence. Researchers sought out other means of testing the possible artificiality of the landform.=20 3. Fractal Analysis=20 In a paper published in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society in 1990, Dr. Mark J. Carlotto and M. C. Stein proposed to apply an entirely quantitative and mathematical technique called fractal analysis to the area. On the fractal test, the Face jumped out as unique over 15,000 square kilometers of Mars -- registering high on the scale of probable= artificiality.=20 With this result, the theory that the Face is a result of "selective wind erosion" is weakened even further. Scattered all over the Cydonia Plain are other knobs or mesas, all of which have been subjected to the erosive forces operating on that landscape over millions of years. As one would expect from natural erosion, none of these objects show up on the fractal test as anything but clearly natural (registering on average 5 on a scale of 1 - 75 from "probably natural" to "probably artificial."). At the top of the scale, registering 75, the Face is quantitatively unlike any of these other objects.[4]=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Project 1947 - Foo-Fighters From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:19:15 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:46:19 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Foo-Fighters Some excerpts from a letter from Jeff Lindell: "I wish I had more time to include the work I've done with Project X-148....I hope this will spark some interesting responses.... "The B-29 units and time periods that will prove fruitful in a search at Maxwell AFB are: 58th Bomb Wing (BW) June-August 1944, April-May 1945 40th Bomb Group (BG) " " 444th BG " " 462nd BG " " 468th BG " " 1st Photo-reconnaissance (Temp. Detachment from McDill) June-August 1944 73rd BW All BG Aprip-May 1945 497th BG 498th BG 499th BG 500th BG 313th BG All BGs Arpil-May 1945 6th BG 9th BG 504th BG 505th BG 314th BW All BGs April-May 1945 19th BG 29th BG 39th BG 330th BG 315th Bomb Wing All BGs April-May 1945 16th BG 331th BG 501st BG 502nd BG "The Wing and Bomb Group levels should have reports of Baka bombs, Robombs, Foo fighters, Balls of light (fire), Kamikazes and possibly the Mitsubishi J8M1 "Swinging sword." There is really no way for me to predict by what names these things may be called in units that I have no access to records. You will probably find some new names. The 20th Air Force and the 21st Bomber Command should also have intelligence records on the phenomena. Also, Venus reports will probably be found in the last May or early June records for these Groups...." * * * * We have 20th Bomber Command's 1945 records. There are several reports of "Balls of fire," but as to be expected they are not as detailed as reports in subordintate units records. Project X-148 was a Navy project that deal with the preception of lights seen from aircraft in the night. In the beginning they collected all types of reports. However, they quickly narrowed down to ground lights mistaken for flying lights or vice verse. The immediate goal was to try to prevent night crashes involving possible disorientation. Lindell's research shows that X-148 went on for years after the war. The Navy has no records of it. Results were published in small scientific journals like the Hawaiian Academy of Science Review. There are no "foo-fighters" here just some probably explanations for some cases. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Carl Sagan From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:52:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:42:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan < Carl Sagan's death ends a career which, while otherwise superior in its <achievements, was sullied by his persistence in his latter years in debunking <and ridiculing the abundant evidence for extraterrestrial life and its <visitation to Earth. < It is not credible to sduppose that Dr. Sagan did not know better. It <is a pity that he allowed himself to be used by the UFO Cover-Up. < At least now he knows better. < - Richard Boylan, Ph.D. I would think that an ex-priest would have something kinder to say. I'm just completing a book about Project Blue Book and plan to include these words: To Carl Sagan: Who prevented the destruction of the Project Blue Book files at great personal cost. Thanks, Dr. Sagan. 1934 - 1996 KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 1, Number 42 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 22:44:52 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:59:09 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 1, Number 42 Subject: Re: Oony Oops Sent: 12/21/96 9:51 PM Received: 12/21/96 10:08 PM From: Don Allen, dona@totcon.com To: Pat Parrinello, pparri@republic.net At 11:53 AM 12/21/96 -0600, Pat Parrinello wrote: > > >What's this all about? >DON ALLEN >E-MAIL: dona@totcon.com >AFFILIATIONS: COLORADO MUFON >FIELDS OF INQUIRY: UFOs >FIRST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 >LAST KNOWN YEAR: 1996 Believe it or not, that's another "Don Allen" who _also_ happens to be in UFOlogy. (small world). However that *is* _my_ email address, not his. Looks like someone ASSUMED my address went with HIS name. Nope! I haven't gotten anything in the last few days from UFO Updates. Did EBK go on vacation? [Nope, as most subscribers will attest, through] [wind, rain, sleet, snow & Santa, the mail still] [gets thru..... ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Happy Summer Christmas From Brisbane Australia From: glenmack@thehub.com.au (glennys mackay) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 00:58:15 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:01:55 -0500 Subject: Happy Summer Christmas From Brisbane Australia Dear friends & Errol of UFO UpDates - Toronto, This is to say thank you for all the work you put in , in providing us with interesting info, and especially all the people that send in information from around the globe thank you for keeping me up till 2 or 3 a.m. most mornings (the only time I have to catch up with what is happening around the tracks live is never dull and thank you for that. My sincerest best wishes to all of you out there. Keep smiling as 1997 is going to bring many surprises for all, and the time to hang on to your purse strings, and keep ahead of all the rubbish that floats around out there. May all your alien bells ring out with the joy of Christmas, peace and good will to all peoples and to all weapons of destruction may they rust in Peace. Keep the light shining Errol you are doing a good job. Latest sightings from Brisbane. Thursday evening sightings of lights over Robina, gold coast, Queensland from 8.20 pm reported on the local news and lots of media coverage. A number of people have reported the sightings of strange lights and very fast maneuvers. Glennys Australia. >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >Subject: Merry Christmas >Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 03:18:59 GMT >Dear Colleagues, >I would like to take this opportunity to wish you a very Merry >Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year. >All the very best, >Philip Mantle. _____________________________________ G.M. Mackay QUFON : Queensland UFO Network P.O. Box 2183 Mansfield M/C BRISBANE, QLD 4122 AUSTRALIA PHONE/FAX: +61 7 3849 6450 E-mail glenmack@thehub.com.au _____________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Hynek's Reevaluation of AF Unidentified From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 15:20:45 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:53:30 -0500 Subject: Hynek's Reevaluation of AF Unidentified Dr. Hynek used a slightly different form in his reevaluation of Air Force unknowns. AIR FORCE UNIDENTIFED DATE Aug 11, 1955 LOCAL TIME 1245 Z LOCATION ICELAND # OF WITNESSES 1 (?) QUALIFICATIONS Military # OF OBJECTS 12 WHAT WAS WITNESS DOING (just happened to look up) DURATION 3-4 mins. UFO MOVEMENT Formation changed from elliptical to wavy line to scattered and back to straight line. From hovering to 1000 M. P. H. OUR CLASSIFICATION DD COPY FROM FORM REMARKS (QUOTES, OUR OBSERVATION, NOTES): shape changed Finis. Summary on PROJECT 10073 Record Card (ATIC Form 329) reads: "Shaped [sic] changed from cigar to egg shaped. Appeared to be grey in color. Formation changed from eliptical to a wavy line to scattered and back to straight line. Objs were first in trail form. Speeds from almost hovering to 1,000 mph. Radar out of operation at time of sighting." Under Comments "Sounds like birds hwever, case evaluated as UNIDENTIFED in 1955." Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:25:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:54:58 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Saturday, December 21, 1996 11:14 AM > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 11:43:18 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Clarke Hathaway said; > > > I have come to the tentative conclusion that these beings > >can and do appear as they will and are masters of illusion. > > I concur, but in my case it's well beyond tentative. Hi Pat... I suppose that I should climb aboard the same boat with you. Lord knows that both Julie and I have experienced our share of bizarre occurrences. Still, I realize enough that the constitution of reality is far more than is presently recognized by the many. I have a hunch as to who and what these entities are, but as yet do not have enough proof to conclusively state that I know. Kindest Regards my friend and we both wish you the happiest of holidays. Clark Hathaway
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Carl Sagan From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 15:09:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:50:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > Date: Saturday, December 21, 1996 2:58 AM > From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:05:06 -0800 (PST) > Cc: ed.stewart@tgod.gigo.com (ed stewart) > > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Carl Sagan dies at 62 > > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 96 11:44:33 -0600 > > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > > He left us with a ship of the imagination. With this ship we > > explore the possibilities of a certain future. > > > > He was a Johnny Appleseed spreading the seeds of thoughts > > through out the world and the fruits of those orchards are > > sweet to the endeavors of hope for Man Eternal in the Universe. > > > > I see him in the Heavens passing by to take an occasional apple > > from one of his trees and taste the nectar of God. > > > > Goodby, Carl... and hello, Carl... I know you are out there now > > where the truth is at last found.. > > > > ~Pat~ > > Not a well known fact regarding Carl Sagan's role and the UFO phenomena. [....] > As it may, ufologists have Carl Sagan to thank for the preservation of the > BLUE BOOK files. > > Also, it was due to Carl Sagan and Thornton Page that the American Association > for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) held its symposium on UFOs against a lot > of political pressure not to address the subject. The symposium gave Hynek > and McDonald a forum to present their viewpoints and cases. > > Ed Stewart Thank You for this excellent counter-point to one ungracious eulogy seen here. :-) Now we truly know the rest of the story. Kindest Regards and Happy Holidays, Clark Hathaway Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | egs |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Hynek's Reevaluation of Air Force Cases From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:26:41 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:41:14 -0500 Subject: Hynek's Reevaluation of Air Force Cases When I visited CUFOS recently, I was interested in look at the cases from 1954-1956 to match up information with cases I copied from the 4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron files. Here is a form that Dr. Hynek used in his own re-evaluation of Air Force cases. The case itself is moderately interesting. I will make some general comments at the end. INTERESTING CASES---AF INDENTIFIED DATE March 2, 1955 LOCAL TIME 2300Z (5:00 P. M.) LOCATION 10 mi. N. of Huntley, Illinois # OF OBJECTS 3 DURATION (unknown) over 10 min. # OF WITNESSES 1 QUALTIFICATIONS WHAT WAS THE WITNESS DOING driving auto UFO MOVEMENT 2 objects flew along side of car ~5'from ground. 3rd obj. (white light) flew ~500' above. Obj on left turned and dropped behind car several times 2 obj. would circle around buildings and trees than move in beside car. When obs. stopped for night--obj. parked in field in distance. Daylight--obj. gone. AF CLASSIFICATION REFLECTION (due to fatigue) OUR CLASSIFICATION CE-I COPY - FROM FORM REMARKS (QUOTES, OUR OBSERVATIONS, NOTES): Long balloon shape --20' long. Black. 8 red lights w/white lights on each end. Object on right shot out a red lighted cross for 5 mins. WHY INTERESTING: No reason to assume fatigue. Finis. There are a number of re evaluations of Air Force cases in CUFOS files. Hynek also re-examined the Air Force unknowns. Many times Hynek agreed with Air Force's evaluation. The 4602d AISS seemed to have an aversion to any close approach cases. If they were viewed through glass, they were automatically a reflections. Another ploy was to label them insufficient information. Any case reported 5 or 7 [I am not sure of the period.] days after it happened could be put in this catagory. Finally, the witness(es) could be said to have overactive imaginations. Therefore, the case deserved no further investigation. An interesting example of the reflection explanation follows. A Lt S was flying across country and saw an object cut diagonally across his flight path. When asked what he thought it was on the AF questionaire, Lt S wrote, "A machine not of this world." The 4602d AISS investigator noted that Lt S had a bad attitude. The answer was a canopy reflection. Lt S noted that Lt J was flying fifteen minutes behind him and witnessed a similar phenomenon. The 4602d AISS files have no investigation of Lt J's sighting. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Alien Insurance Pays Off - article From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 20:29:52 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:00:36 -0500 Subject: Alien Insurance Pays Off - article Hi Errol! Thanks for a great year of 'UFO Updates'. All the best to you and yours. Season's Greetings! - John ========================================================================== "Paging Mr Santilli, Mr Ray Santilli, a possible video for you..." ================================ >From Melbourne _Sunday Herald Sun_ December 22, 1996, p. 38 Alien Insurance Pays Off By DAVID WALMSEY in London IT could be the perfect case for agents Mulder and Scully. In true X-Files style, an electrician claims he was lifted from the ground and knocked unconscious by a UFO near London. He is apparently to be paid $2 million by insurers who covered him against abduction by aliens. Industry sources, however, are suggesting that the payout could, just possibly, be an out-of- this-world publicity stunt. The story starts on October 8 when Joseph Carpenter, 23, of North London, claims he was struck down by a mystery light at Swindon. The area is a "hot spot" for such phenomena, says Mr Carpenter, who runs a UFO hunting group called the Majestic Twelve. "On the evening in question, an intense beam of light, like a police helicopter, had me," he said. "The anti-gravity force within it lifted me above the ground. I passed out as I went directly into it. All this was captured on film." By an amazing stroke of luck, Mr Carpenter had paid $205 for cover against such an eventuality to a company called GRIP, run by insurance broker Simon Burgess. Mr Carpenter was able to produce "compelling evidence" of his ordeal, including camcorder footage, witnesses and DNA samples taken from what he said was a claw found at the scene. Mr Burgess said last night: "The work on the DNA sample was carried out by a research fellow at Cambridge University -- I can't give you the name. But the work proved conclusively that the sample was something that had never been seen before and which was not of this Earth." Mr Burgess says Mr Carpenter was expected to receive his $2 million yesterday at a London hotel from Scully herself, _X-Files_ star Gillian Anderson. The broker, described by one industry source as "an unhelpful maverick", is believed to have made a deal with a Sunday paper for exclusive coverage of the presentation. Industry insiders say he is almost certain to make a profit from Mr Carpenter's claim. One said: "If he plays his cards right, he will claw the money back by wisely selling the world rights of the video evidence to TV companies. If he co-wrote a book using the evidence, the money would also roll in." -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Backlash From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 15:00:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:45:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Backlash ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Backlash > Date: Friday, December 20, 1996 4:00 PM > > From: rfsignal@sprynet.com > Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:00:27 -0800 > Subject: Backlash > To: updates@globalserve.net > > I have been reading and reading about all of the thoughts, > concerns, evidences and so on about the topic of UFOology. > It leads me to wonder just what the .. is going on in the > thought processes of most humans. In a word Cathy, EGO. > Fact: there are people from all over the world who have only > one thing in common, that they were abducted, that they had > experiences that involved aliens, their craft, and their > equipment. They all have the basically similar stories to > tell. Too true. :-( > Fact: These same people are being ignored. For the past > fifty years, there has been > > NO.. repeat NO change in anything! Basically correct. > > Those same experiencers have been investigated, > poked and prodded by the best of humanity after the fact > that they were poked and prodded by those aliens. So, where > is the information for all of those tests and investigating? Unfortunately, no one has come forward with any semblance of equipment in order to monitor the folks who have the dubious distinction of experiencing these phenomena on a somewhat regular basis. It seems that those who would otherwise be capable of amassing the where with all in order to begin some honest research in regards to these phenomena, would much rather make pompous statements as to what does and what does not constitute reality and then stick their collective heads in the sand hoping that it will all go away. > Who is blindly leading who? For the past fifty > years, there have been the same incidents, same people, same > resulting abduction scenario. Can you believe it? I have to. I have been watching since 1952. > Just where does anyone who exhibits Post Abduction Trauma > syndrome go to get help for the host of problems and other > difficulties that they endure after the fact? Can they go > to the police? To the Lawyers? To the medical professionals? > To the local witchdoctor? Significant question. I wish we had some one else to turn to save psychologists alone, but practically no one else has come forward. My experience has shown me that these too are extremely prone to the adoption of attitudes and assumptions in regards to the phenomena if not the trauma. My view on this is that it does NOT constitute HONEST research and in regards to steering an experiencer towards the adoption of an attitude of acceptance of the perpetrators actions being benevolent, is extremely dangerous. Further, I feel the assumption on the part of many that these 'others' are 'Aliens' from across the galaxy who are fairly recent arrivals Is highly dangerous as well. > Well, the best route so far has shown that the local > Witch Doctor is your best source of help and understanding > of the trauma that besets any abductee! Unfortunately, true. > I hate being human and lost in a sea of other ignorant > humans! I understand your frustration. :-) Please allow me to ask of you a question. If you are an abductee, experiencer or whatever other label you wish to put to it, did your experience(s) have a high incidence of paranormal phenomena? Kindest Regards, Clark Hathaway
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: 'Backlash' From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:33:30 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:56:51 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' Dear Steven, [John Powell] Thankyou for your concerned and informative reply. >> Fact: there are people from all over the world who have >> only one thing in common, that they were abducted, that >> they had experiences that involved aliens, their craft, >> and their equipment. They all have the basically similar >> stories to tell. >That's not entirely true or accurate. At a minimum we have >4 groups of people. Alleged abductees who have and have >not been hypnotized, and alleged contactees who have and >have not been hypnotized. >Additionally, if you closely examin a number of these >stories, especially from outside of North America, you will >find that the bulk of the stories are not all that common. I am well aware that there are demographic areas wherein sightings and experiences take on some unique characteristics peculiar to each area. Each area has its own progressively evolving set of circumstances concerning the interaction of humanity with non-humanity. While race, creed, colour, etc. etc. seem to make no difference to the fact of the experiences, differences can be seen when comparing experiences reported from clearly defined areas. I know that Mexico experiences reports can vary significantly with those from California, or Russia. Why? If I told you that the independently evolving areas idea was of my own doing during one of my experiences, could you take that information literally? Or would you try to find a parable or some other authority to refer to such a possibility? Regardless, I cannot possibly expect you or anyone to entertain such a claim. You would try to have me prove in scientific terms that the possibility, beyond mere coincidence, was exactly as I had explained it. If not, you would simply mark that one up to a symptomology of natural, although not yet understood causes. At this point, why should I tell more knowing that I won't have even the remotest possibility of credibility? I would presume at this point to begin to doubt my own perceptions of reality and so on. Well, I've done that. I've laid my self down to die having given up completely, but did not. I still believe the same as I did before. And, that won't change. Next thing I'll be telling you that I saw a burning bush... yeah right. Then I know you couldn't believe me about anything. Why? Because you have your own values and perceptions with which you view the world as you can perceive it. But, you can't begin the processes necessary to believe in miracles, or in things you can't understand. How could you take my simple statements on blind faith alone to explain anything, especially world involving events spanning decades. How many other abductees try their best to tell their own story, to be understood by other humans, to find peace with themselves after their experiences? Lifetimes! We are talking about lifetimes of experiences handed down through the generations as proof that there is something going on. Mine included. You suggested that mph professionals could be prepared to help me over the worst of my inner conflicts. Well, I tried to find out about that. Where I live, there is a two year wait to get into a lineup of questionable length to get possibly vague help. That doesn't do it for me. The possibly of seeing the esteemed Dr. Mack or any other expert is as remote as going to the moon. Besides, I been there, lotta rock. Research that. NOTE: Please kids at home, if there is any doubt of your experiences or sanity, go directly to your nearest doctor, psychiatrist or teacher. Do not go about looking for witch doctors as they only exist in comics and can't help you anyways. Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:36:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:57:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass Jerry Cohen wrote: > >Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:59:21 -0500 > >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Walton Case.4: NICAP June 76 evaluation - Klass > >References: <2.2.32.19961216220215.00b82a20@globalserve.net> <snip - prior correspondence removed - > > >You may find this of interest for another perspective on the Travis > >Walton case please read Coral and Jim Lorenzens account in "Abducted - > >Confrontations with Beings From Outer Space" 1977 Berkley Medallion > >Books, Chapter IV The Walton Affair pp 80-113. ...... > JC: Thank you Gary. Someone else pointed that out to me. I'm going to get > the book. However, NICAP had printed several things over the years calling > into question the accuracy of some of the Lorenzens' books. I really > respected NICAP. I'll take a look at what the Lorenzens said and whether > or not this book was one of those mentioned by NICAP. I understand you really respected NICAP but before you let the concept of respecting an authoritative organization shape your judgement you should familiarize yourself with the background of its founders, directors and their histories and ties to the intelligence community. Likewise do the same for the APRO. Here I'll add just a few comments to entice you to open mindedly look into this and evaluate it yourself without accepting NICAPs judgement of APRO a priori or vice versa. >From the Lorenzen book - UFO's The Whole Story 1969, Signet. Page 7 "As a child in 1934!, (my ! for emphasis) Mrs. Lorenzen observed a UFO and a few years later mentioned the object to the family doctor. Being an open-minded and curious man, his own reading jaunts had taken him far afield from his profession; he had read many 'off-beat' books, among which were those of Charles Fort, the original UFO researcher, who held scientists in utter contempt and penned his intellectual barbs with rare humor. The doctor recommended that if Mrs. Lorenzen was interested in reading about other people who had seen strange things in the sky, she should imbibe Fort's works, which she did-at the age of twelve. She discovered that things similar to the erie white half-disk she had seen were described in astronomical journals, scientific papers, and ordinary newspapers which predated her own sighting by at least a hundred years. The books, Lo, Book of the Damned, and Wild Talents, were gold mines of information about UFOs and other inexplicable things." I am not too surprised about the origin of the Lorenzen's interests. I am finding more frequent than not that many of the major UFO researchers have had significant personal experiences. I didn't find out about Mrs. Lorenzen's experience until I had started reading the third of their five books I have. Two and a half down and two and a half to go of the five I have. So far of the major past UFO researchers I am familiar with they "seem" to be the most genuine. I say seem because I need to know more. They seemed genuinely surprised and annoyed at the surveillance they were placed under by the US government. You can trace their transformation from thinking that they were above suspicion (their own govt employment) to their later enlightenment about the ways of intelligence when reading the Durant/Robertson report. I find it interesting that their organization died with them as opposed to NICAP which continued on under the guidance of CIA's psyops. I would like to learn more about APRO historically. They, the Lorenzens, did not censor the UFO material they collected to the degree that Keyhoe/NICAP did to make the information publicly and/or politically salable. Keyhoe/NICAP was either run as a counterintelligence operation or so infiltrated that it functioned as one nonetheless. So many aspects of Keyhoe and his operation of NICAP didn't make sense and are logically explicable by using this explanation without invoking any conspiracies or histrionics. However don't take this to mean that NICAP and its individual researchers didn't produce anything of validity or merit. A good counterintelligence operation often does, as a by-product of fulfilling its primary but hidden objectives, produce such material, in fact doing this often enhances the effectiveness of the counterintelligence operation. Don't take this to mean that I think APRO was all above board, I don't have enough information to formulate an opinion on that. Kevin Randle while in his twenties was a an APRO field investigator of the Patty Price case mentioned in the Lorenzen's "Abducted - Confrontations With Beings From Outer Space, chapter 2 pages 9-24. Berkley Publishing 1977. Was Kevin working for the Air Force Intelligence service at that time? The book doesn't say. I am aware that Kevin participates in the dialogue on UFO UpDdates and I would find interesting any commentary he would have on APRO, his investigations, background which brought him into UFO research, etc. Gary Alevy Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:16:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:51:37 -0500 Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > Date: Saturday, December 21, 1996 11:10 AM > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:08:23 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > References: <2.2.32.19961221095531.006dfa18@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever' > > > > the three months between the onset of these flashes of memory > > and my undergoing hypno-regression, it would be fair to state > > that I was rapidly becoming an emotional basket case. These > > circumstances were entirely intolerable considering my military > > upbringing and certain training and opportunities that I was > > afforded while in the military. > > I understand how it was unacceptable. The scientific community needs to begin honest research into this area John, it is long overdue. I agree with you on the need for monitoring to necessarily include the equipment and technique as used by parapsychologists. Perhaps a multi discipline team is called for in these regards. > > What I AM suggesting here is that in order to get to the bottom > > line in this situation, hypno-regression was necessary. I > > recognize however, that this would not necessarily be the case > > in all instances. Many who are abducted seem to recall through > > non-extraordinary means, a great deal of their experience. Some > > are going to need this sort of tool in order to begin to get by > > the fear. > > Psychology has other methods to accomplish things like that. Using > hindsight we can look back at your experience and say that we don't > think the hypnosis caused any problems and we do think it was beneficial > therefore it worked for you. I can't argue with that <grin>. I AM willing to concede that I AM fortunate. :-) > > > Whatever it turns out to be I'm pretty sure it will be > > strange...<grin> > > I sincerely hope that you never have the opportunity to > > experience it. > > Well, that's a tough one. On the one hand were I to have similar > experiences I'm sure I'd have a very difficult time regaining even a > minimum of objectivity. (Not having had similar experiences, and having > done some research/investigation in the past, its easy for me to be > objective.) Its hard to predict how that would affect me. On the other > hand, without having had those similar experiences I am missing a piece > of the puzzle and I realize that. I understand. I want to stress however, that in dealing with those who have had these experiences, it is important to attempt some form of empathy without compromising an attitude of neutrality as to what these experiences constitute. > All things considered, if the choice was mine I'd rather struggle with > subjective objectivity than struggle trying to understand what the > experience is really like. Sure. But, can a researcher dealing with living, breathing subjects, afford to treat them with no empathy at all? I don't hardly think in this case that the research would be afforded the time necessary to arrive at even some tentative conclusions. All that is being asked here John, is that one (the researcher) realize that the subject HAS in fact come through some kind of experience that has had a shattering impact on the subject's life and act accordingly. Most of these folks are extremely sensitive in some areas John, where they weren't necessarily that way prior to their experience. > > In the meantime John, I challenge any other abductee and/or > > researcher to honestly set aside all of the assumptions and > > adopted beliefs that have come about as a result of their > > experience(s). > > I truly feel that if they do not, then they run the risk of > > being mere pawns and/or tools of the ones who perpetrated the > > abduction(s) in the first place. I strongly feel that they are > > placing themselves in a great amount of danger by insisting on > > playing the helpless victim. > > They _aren't_ helpless victims. They can help themselves and other by > demanding real research and investigation. Unfortunately John, it is human nature to take the easy way out and let someone else take responsibility for our plight. I loved the message from Cathy I believe entitled 'Backlash' where she referred to those we have to turn to as 'witch doctors'. I understand her frustration, but the term struck me as funny if not altogether true. I still have some problems as a result of my experience as I still do not know what really happened. The funny thing is that the first portion of my experience is the most bizarre yet the most real to me. Lots of paranormal, bizarre occurrences to look at. Being pulled bodily through the locked steel doors at the back of my van, levitated across the meadow at a frightful speed into a brilliant, bluish-white light containing three short, hazy, fuzzy figures who were obviously being telepathically communicated with by the being who had ahold of me. etc., etc. > > of the experience. Based upon my post-abduction experiences > > John, I have come to the tentative conclusion that these beings > > can and do appear as they will and are masters of illusion. I > > state this because both Julie and myself have witnessed some of > > this with our own eyes. > > Well, just going by the standard thematic details 'they' seem to be able > to do all sorts of seemingly magical things. Yup! However, does this "Magic" constitute advanced technology as many suggest with absolutely basis, or is it indicative of perhaps a higher level of psychic ability within those who are the perpetrators, or perhaps something else altogether ... even more bizarre? > > > The risk in thinking that nothing is happenning is the same as > > > thinking something specific is happenning and being wrong. Whatever > > > it is that's happenning doesn't apparently know or care what we > > > think... > > It has been my observance that the are smug in their own > > abilities. They do care when they find that they themselves are > > being observed John. They really put on a show of being > > startled. > > Hahahahahaha!!!!! Interesting... When you are in a large building late at night and catch yourself being observed, it is not so funny. If I hadn't arrived somewhat prepared, I more than likely would have physically reacted to the startling awareness by jumping. Thus, I would have given myself away. When whatever it was realized that I was covertly observing it observing me, it immediately exited the far end of the room down a parallel hallway to the one at my end of the room. It should have come out into the large room that Julie was in but didn't apparently. I searched for any sign of it in the room (1) off of the hallway it went down, but failed to find anything. This was but one episode out of a few that were similar. > > Wishing you and your wife the happiest of holidays on behalf of > > Julie and Myself, > > Same to you two! Thanks John! :-) Kindest Regards, Clark Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Code of Ethics From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:57:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:55:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Code of Ethics ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > Date: Saturday, December 21, 1996 11:12 AM > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:07:41 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > References: <2.2.32.19961221100728.00712190@globalserve.net> > > > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics > > > > true spirituality has NOTHING to do with religion. Down through > > the ages John there have been many atrocities committed in the > > name of this or that religion. Where I ask you is the > > spirituality in committing inhumane acts John? > > Beats me!? (Not being religious or spiritual makes things like that > just about impossible for me to understand...) <chuckle> Then you concede that dogma does not constitute spirituality. <grin> I say to you John Powell that the fact that you care more for the well being of an abductee's mental/emotional condition is indicative of you possess some spirituality. <wide, evil grin> > > Spirituality in my view is an evolving condition within each of > > us that is exemplified partially by our individual Humaneness. > > I agree with that but I'll also point that most religions would have a > problem with that. Most religions don't really or directly acknwledge > the humaness of humans as apart for their God. How these religions react to this or that doesn't necessarily indicate that they are correct. ;-) Frankly, I don't really give a good fig how they react. Truth is truth. > > Hopefully you get my point. > > I definitely understand the point. If we placed traditional > religions at one end of the spectrum and so-called secular humanism > at the other end of the spectrum then your definition of spirituality > would be somewhere in the middle. I honestly don't know John. I dimly recall a discussion of human secularism with my former partner's son one time whereas he was giving his view that he fit the definition, but for the life of me I can't recall what it was. <grin> All I can state from my viewpoint is that Religion is ritualistic. One does not need to be ritualistic in order to be spiritual. However, considering that I was raised within a family that was not especially ritual oriented nor rich in tradition, I could be wet behind the ears. <grin> > > Thus, Religions are control mechanisms John. > > I won't argue that <grin>. I pretty much stand by that one. ;-) > > > That was extremely unfortunate and hopefully you've managed to > > > undo most of that silliness. As we now know that individual wasn't > > > an acceptable MHP to begin with. > > Hahaha! I was branded anathema from the gitgo John. <grin> > > I didn't for a second buy that hogwash and did my best in the > > attempt to point out why I felt that it was pure baloney. I can > > honestly relate that following a number of the get-togethers, I > > was taken aside by a few and thanked for speaking out. I once > > again challenge others who have experienced similar > > circumstances to my own, to seriously question what are to me > > the illusionary trappings provided by those who perpetrated the > > circumstances in the first place. > > Its important to challenge yourself and your memories, its like a > self-test. I can't argue that. :-) > > > Most experiencers I've talked to would say something similar. > > > The high strangeness of the experience, and various specific events, > > > seem to stand almost as a contradiction to it being a 3D-real event. > > Really. That hasn't yet been my experience. > > I don't mean to say they think it wasn't a 3D event, only that their > memories of them are so _different_ from ordinary 3D events. Ahhh! Well, mine certainly seemed to be a 3D event and I don't know how to alter my memories otherwise. However, it is those very memories that I question. It is ironic that the most bizarre of those memories are the ones that seem the most real or 3D. > > > That's largely the name of the game. Therapy can't, shouldn't > > > and generally won't prove something right or wrong - just get you > > > back in the game. In you case it was mostly self-therapy and you > > > aren't the only person who mostly helped themselves. A non-trivial > > > part of traditional psychology is helping you to become your own > > > best therapist. > > Yup! Kinda like hypnosis. <grin> > > Except safer... Ethics should apply no matter what methodology is employed John. Traditional therapy would serve to enable an efficient dealing with the emotional content, but wouldn't necessarily shed any light as to whether the event constituted full or partial 3D reality or something else. I think that you will concede that this question is also very important. Hypnosis employed with ethics, safeguards and control could and has shed some light on these questions. The onus however has been upon the researcher to maintain an attitude of objectivity concerning the events. It has also been the responsibility of the researcher whether acknowledged or not, to take into account and honestly consider ALL OF THE EVIDENCE that has been present in each individual case. I feel we both can agree that for the most part in abduction research, this has not taken place. > > > I understand that. And if you told your story to a person > > > who's sanity you didn't question and that person was even moderately > > > swayed that probably something _did_ happen to you, then you would > > > have (maybe just a little tiny bit) demonstrated to yourself that > > > you weren't crazy. > > Okay, I see your point, you're correct. > > That's part of the self-testing. Its a productive element only p to the > point where it shifts into non-challenging belief. > > > I believe that the abduction scenarios can be brought to a halt. > > This does not necessarily mean that the encounters stop however, > > it just means that their nature changes. > > There's been a few things written about that. Its an interesting angle > that by doing some mental/spiritual work you can significantly influence > an encounter. They really display some frustration when things aren't going according to plan. <grin> > > > Perhaps you've had the experience of talking to someone about > > > your experiences and (somehow, some way) they became _totally_ > > > convinced that they were _positively_ real. Did their 110% > > > acceptance, genuine as it may be to them, seem hollow or shallow to > > > you? > > Reserved. <grin> > > But my friend, I fail to see how it could be any other way. > > HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Okay, I can accept that. > > > > And that's the problem. Traditional science would say that > > > there's nothing wrong with the hardware, it performed exactly as it > > > should, and it recorded no 3D events at all. Traditional psychology > > > might then say that there's nothing wrong with the person either, > > > but they _are_ suffering some trauma from what can _currently_ only > > > be described as a nightmare. Maybe, in our example, we'd get lucky > > > and there'd be something else, a physical marking or something, to > > > complicate things. > > Having said the above John and in consideration of the entire > > exchange, perhaps you are getting a bit of a feel for what I was > > referring to by the term 'awareness'. Some are consciously aware > > of things within their surroundings within which others have no > > cognizance. Therefore, these things are real to them on an > > subtle experiential interactive way while to the others, there > > is not an equal amount of perception. > > Yep, I understand that. So there has to be some way to move this off > square one. Electronic monitoring may not (likely won't) _solve_ the > issue but it may very likely focus research. I feel that this is correct. Or put another way, I feel that some electronic monitoring such as employed in parapsychological research, may certainly indicate and affirm that something is indeed occurring on a higher level that is indeed serving to effect the lower. > > > I can convince myself using non-traditional approaches but I > > > couldn't convince anyone else without them. > > Agreed. Yet, your experience is not any less valid is it? > > Most especially when you encounter others who independently > > report nearly the exact same experience(s) under similar > > circumstances. > > By "experience" I didn't mean an encounter or abduction, I meant the > path through the data. Probably nobody can duplicate my approach, what > I read, who I met, talked to and worked with, etc. But it can surely be > closely approximated. Most people closely approximating that path can > convince themselves based only on the circumstantial data that something > is going on. They probably can't convince anyone else unless that other > person takes a similar path through the data. Okay, I follow. > A good example of that is a recent message in this List from Cathy. It > was quite impassioned, emotional and powerful. Clearly she believes > something is going on. Despite some techinal inaccuracies the impact > (intent) of her message was to hope to cause readers to move in the > direction of believing the possibility of so-called alien abductions. > That's fine, so far as it goes. But without proof all we have is > belief, which is simply not enough to cause most folks to move _beyond_ > thinking of the events as merely possible. I felt and responded to her frustration. I understand it. It is all too easy to accept that indeed Galaxians <chuckle> are here abducting us and perpetrating all manner of nefarious acts. Whelp, when one has the physical contusions and marks, what can others expect? These are after all, 3D effects. This is one very good reason for all manner of electronic monitoring to include covert video. I don't know if it will do any good as I suspect that [1] the activity will cease for the duration or [2] the equipment will in some cases be rendered temporarily inoperable. The question of course is: is it really all that important to suspend investigation pending a decision on who or what constitute the perpetrators or what constitutes the event? Point [1] Something exceedingly strange is happening that is effecting in dire manner the lives of many around this planet. Point [2] This desperately calls for team research into this perplexing problem conducted in an ethical, scientifically honest manner. > > just now beginning to experience this and are experiencing a > > beginning of it's development within themselves. I suggest that > > were this not the case, they could ill afford perpetrating the > > inhumane acts to which they reportedly have. > > Sure, that's possible I guess. We tend to think that no intelligent > creature would do these things unless either they haven't confronted > their compassionate/spiritual side -OR- they have and somehow dispensed > with it. I guess either possibility works. It will be interesting to see how this develops. > Of course, if they _haven't_ encountered religion yet then they're in > for a surprise when they get set upon by Earth's evangelists! Hahaha! I can imagine a funny movie based on that John. <grin> > > I just pointed out one of mine. I do not for a second buy that > > these beings where ever and however they do get here, are far in > > advance of us in aspects that really matter. > > Another thing. I feel that despite the possibility that they may > > possess superior weaponry for example, they have insufficient > > numbers to take advantage of the slight increase in superiority. > > Their only alternative it is clear, lies within manipulation to > > gain their ends. > > Yeah, they obviously don't want to destroy the place, or maybe can't. It would seem that way. > > > Well, then we're screwed. Probably the single most common > > > thread that runs through human society, politics, economics, and > > > even religion is reaction instead of action (or pro-action). We > > > wait for something to happen then we react to it instead of > > > determining that something is going to happen and act on it. > > I prefer to have faith and trust in spirit John. > > My mind just doesn't work that way. I did not mean to indicate that I sit by and do nothing. I just meant to indicate that I strive to take a positive view of things. I try to respond to situations rather than to react to them. However, we are probably playing semantics here. <grin> > > > I don't think anything is going to change that in the near > > term. > > I do, but as inferred, many will be oblivious to the change. > > I don't understand how a change can occur without everybody realizing > that it happenned. I could only explain this using metaphysical terminology and at that I doubt that I could adequately convey what I wished to say. I really don't understand in full the mechanics of what I suspect is to occur. There are a couple of possible scenarios. In either, there will be most assuredly some mystifying circumstances that will happen to indicate that something extraordinary has just occurred. More than likely the impression that stays with those who remain will all too quickly fade. The events that will serve to formulate those impressions will be unprecedented within the history of mankind I feel. > > > Yes, it should. It all starts with a police report. > > Let me assure you that in this community, that would bring > > nothing but contempt and ridicule. > > So, what's new about that? They still have official responsibilities > they are required by law to fulfill. Given the sensitivity of those who have undergone these experiences John, it is easy to understand why they have been and remain reluctant to file a complaint. It would seem that some attitude adjustment is in order here and don't mean to indicate on the part of the experiencer. The fact of the matter is that they have already traveled the extra mile. > > > People don't like to admit they took a wrong turn especially > > > if they'd been on that wrong turn road a long time. There clearly > > > is a consensus-likde decision among most that this is a 3D, aliens > > > in spaceships, deal and they exclude the paranormal (or sometimes > > > explain it away with science fiction). > > Then they play into the perpetrators hands In My Opinion. > > Once one breaks out of this mold and is what is termed by some > > an experiencer John, one notes a decided change in the content > > of the experiences that occur after. > > Interesting. So the very nature of the experiences changes based on the > thinking if the experiencer? Not the original experiences and I can only state that this was only my experience. Too, it didn't have so much to do with my thinking or attitude as it did/does my level of awareness as a result of the thinking and changing of various attitudes. Kindest Regards, Clark Search for other documents from or mentioning: earthwrk | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Carl Sagan From: BGBOPPER@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:11:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:35:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan Dr. Boylan, You said: > Carl Sagan's death ends a career which, while otherwise superior in its >achievements, was sullied by his persistence in his latter years in debunking >and ridiculing the abundant evidence for extraterrestrial life and its >visitation to Earth. > It is not credible to sduppose that Dr. Sagan did not know better. It >is a pity that he allowed himself to be used by the UFO Cover-Up. > At least now he knows better. > - Richard Boylan, Ph.D. For an Ex-Priest this is really a "Shame on you"! R.Estes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Dec 96 14:18:42 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:35:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance To James Easton: <<It's what Bob may contribute as evidence which has to deemed credible or otherwise.>> How do you determine if the evidence is credible? What Bob says about the Kodak testing is in conflict with what another well known researcher says. On December 4th, the SIGHTINGS show aired a new segment about the Autopsy Footage. This segment featured testimony from Kent Jeffrey, Dan McGovern and Joe Longo. Kent Jeffrey stated in the broadcast: "Kodak has been standing by since July 1995, waiting for the film. If they were given only one or two frames, they could adequately analyze this film, and determine one way or another whether it is genuine 1945 film." ----snip--- <Note: I don't know why Kent said 1945, but he did. -T.> Bob Shell says Kodak wants or needs a couple of feet of film and would prefer to have a whole reel. These two statements are in conflict with each other. Is Kodak giving differing information to different people? Or are one or both of these two researchers misleading the public? <<Yes, I've seen transcripts of interviews with Tony Amato at Kodak.>> In the interview does Tony Amato say that they are willing to do the tests on only one or two frames or give any other requirements on the amount? <<I've asked him to clarify exactly what he's implying and if he's seriously suggesting, as it appears he is, that it's all part of some conspiracy.>> I've never cared much for conspiracy theories. They are always too convenient. But I have to say that I have seen some strange things related on with this story that I don't know how else to explain. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Hynek's Reevaluation of Air Force Cases From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:26:41 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:39:51 -0500 Subject: Hynek's Reevaluation of Air Force Cases When I visited CUFOS recently, I was interested in look at the cases from 1954-1956 to match up information with cases I copied from the 4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron files. Here is a form that Dr. Hynek used in his own re-evaluation of Air Force cases. The case itself is moderately interesting. I will make some general comments at the end. INTERESTING CASES---AF INDENTIFIED DATE March 2, 1955 LOCAL TIME 2300Z (5:00 P. M.) LOCATION 10 mi. N. of Huntley, Illinois # OF OBJECTS 3 DURATION (unknown) over 10 min. # OF WITNESSES 1 QUALTIFICATIONS WHAT WAS THE WITNESS DOING driving auto UFO MOVEMENT 2 objects flew along side of car ~5'from ground. 3rd obj. (white light) flew ~500' above. Obj on left turned and dropped behind car several times 2 obj. would circle around buildings and trees than move in beside car. When obs. stopped for night--obj. parked in field in distance. Daylight--obj. gone. AF CLASSIFICATION REFLECTION (due to fatigue) OUR CLASSIFICATION CE-I COPY - FROM FORM REMARKS (QUOTES, OUR OBSERVATIONS, NOTES): Long balloon shape --20' long. Black. 8 red lights w/white lights on each end. Object on right shot out a red lighted cross for 5 mins. WHY INTERESTING: No reason to assume fatigue. Finis. There are a number of re evaluations of Air Force cases in CUFOS files. Hynek also re-examined the Air Force unknowns. Many times Hynek agreed with Air Force's evaluation. The 4602d AISS seemed to have an aversion to any close approach cases. If they were viewed through glass, they were automatically a reflections. Another ploy was to label them insufficient information. Any case reported 5 or 7 [I am not sure of the period.] days after it happened could be put in this catagory. Finally, the witness(es) could be said to have overactive imaginations. Therefore, the case deserved no further investigation. An interesting example of the reflection explanation follows. A Lt S was flying across country and saw an object cut diagonally across his flight path. When asked what he thought it was on the AF questionaire, Lt S wrote, "A machine not of this world." The 4602d AISS investigator noted that Lt S had a bad attitude. The answer was a canopy reflection. Lt S noted that Lt J was flying fifteen minutes behind him and witnessed a similar phenomenon. The 4602d AISS files have no investigation of Lt J's sighting. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Carl Sagan From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:42:45 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:36:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >=20 > Now that we no longer have Carl to pick on from time to time, > I suppose we shall have to double up on James Oberg. ;) >=20 > ~Pat~ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6=20 Apology to MW #70 (For December 21, 1996)=20 As regards our Carl Sagan, A hero of my youth, But better he move onward Before much longer in the tooth. Though, he pulled me to a place Where comets are now foaming! Smart and Brave, and flinching not, He started me to roaming! He fought against Doc Condon; He stood for what was right! He was asking pointed questions; He stood for Truth's bright Light! His startup was Prometheian,=20 He did nothing I can hate;=20 Then, he avoided Stanton Friedman; He walked away from that debate. He scoffed, and sneered, and guffawed; He smirked at Mack's abductions. He made our science shallower, And he narrowed its construction. He added to the ridicule. He took a wrongful tack. Late in esteemed and learned life, Was he blind to brave new fact? It's the honored way of closed minds, That they harden up with age. Their part is all but over, Yet they cannot leave the stage. They can't say that they=92ve been wrong, They won=92t say that there=92s new info; They don=92t tell you of some newfound truth, Just *Distort* -- it=92s ex post facto. History is littered here, It=92s in your own experience! The greatest can eclipse their greatness, And betray their own ebullience. Like Grant before his presidency, Or Lugosi before "Plan 9." Did Sagan take a low road? Did he cover up some sign? Did he do in fact what was accused? Did he set our study back? Did he prevaricate some issue? Did he stab us in the back? Oh, perhaps not, or, so I=92ll remember. As he put me at the station -- Provided passage for _this_ old man On his starship -- Imagination. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Better to remember the *good* that a man does, as that *good* is, more often than not, interred with the man=92s bones. Or, so said Mr. Shakespeare. Perhaps =96 then I remember Nixon.=20 Back in the days when Dr. Sagan and I had more dew on our lilies, his was a voice that stood out to say that *everything* may not _be_ as it appeared. He indicated that there was a grand investigation afoot that we were just beginning to advance =96 that we were infants. I look around, and see that he was right, then =96 even if questionable now. And, as glad as I am to have him tell me about his ship of imagination, I=92m also glad he *wasn=92t* around to tell eighth graders David Goldenheim and Daniel Litchfield that the geometry homework their summer school teacher gave them, as a joke, was impossible for them to accomplish.=20 _There_ is the value of an open mind =96 against all odds Dave and Dan solved Euclid=92s difficult problem in a manner much more elegant than even Euclid did -- because there was no one to tell them it couldn=92t be done (US News & World Report, December 23, 1996).=20 Conversely, as I look into each night=92s sky, I must thank Dr. Sagan, personally, for my perception of its magnificent, enigmatic, and encompassing depth. But I must still remember that there is improvement seen in the real world with _every_ funeral -- even his, and of course, mine. I can only pray that _my_ eventual contribution to historical intellect on _my_ passing would even _begin_ to approach the magnitude of his contribution, a magnitude measured with many, many exponents -- "Billy-ions" of them.=20 See you on the other side =96 Doctor. Thanks for showing us a path to the stars. Perhaps we shall name the craft that takes us there, the "Carl Sagan."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Backlash From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 14:08:49 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:38:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Backlash >> Cathy, rfsignal@sprynet.com said; > >>>I hate being human and lost in a sea of other ignorant >>>humans! > >> I resent that. I am an ignorant land deweler. Besides, I'm >> scared of sharks and certain plankton tastes funny. > > Sorry that you thought you were hit upon, Pat. I >was not over-generalizing to prod you. If you take offense, >then don't because I apologize. Offense? :) Apologize? For what? Don't you know a great contextual pun when you see one? You were supposed to ROFL, not apologize! :-D > What we have here is a failure to communicate. Actually, I think esoteric flippant waggery on my part was misinterpreted. >While it is one thing to see distant lights up in the sky, >it is quite another to see those lights up close and in my >face, actively and physically involving me in something that >the scientific and political communities of the world >devoutly refuse to acknowlege as even being possible. I can identify with that... "In the late `60's that all changed. A friend and I were coming home one night from fishing. We noticed an "airplane" and did not pay much attention to it. When we turned into the driveway of my parents home they and all the neighbors were outside watching the "airplane." They said that it had been moving around for several hours. My friend and I went back to the main highway for a better view. We parked and got out. The now obvious "object" became unidentified as we watched it. I got a flashlight out of the car and flashed at the UFO. It flashed back! Then, after another round of flashlight semaphore the UFO descended and came towards us and stopped dead over our heads. I flashed. It flashed back. Whatever was in control of that thing was obviously intelligent. Underneath the UFO I saw what appeared to be a large circle inside which were three equal sized smaller circles. From around each of these I could see a blue to green glow. In the exact center of the UFO was an area from where the return flashing came. The light of that was red. The field of view of the stars were cut off and I knew this was a solid object. After about 10 minutes it seemed to loose interest in us and slowly drifted off. The object made no noise. There was no down draft of air. It was unmistakable to us that this thing was not of this Earth. We followed it almost to Freeport and then back again to the area where we first saw it. Then, it took off in a burst of speed that proved to me that it indeed was nothing I could just laugh off and forget about." > All of the coverups, illusions, hoaxes and denials >of the past fifty years have only served to show that we as >a species don't have what it takes to prove to our selves >that there are infinite possibilities in the universe. You need to visit my page: http://www.republic.net/~pparri/mobius.html and maybe you will see why I disagree with you as regards "infinite possibilities in the universe." > I am >tired of the bickering, slashing antics of the very ones who >try to be on our side, trying to prove that there really is >evidence of something going on. The only evidence, is evidence. Just what that is as regards people who have such subjective evidence, as myself, and cannot prove same for others, does in no way prove that the subjective evidence is invalid. As John Powell likes to say; "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" > If my sightings and experiences fit within my >mundane perceptions and understanding of the world, then I >would have no fear of the nature of the conflicts that >arise. I would have simple, blind motivations to explore >and interact with the world around me. But such is not the >case. I am convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that there >is something going on, and that I have been a part of that. Dang, I could have written that but for one problem... I do explore and interact and go so far as to also innovate, so don't sell yourself short just yet, your last seven words above are a portent of things to come. > Whatever my story is, doesn't matter to me, because >it is simply part of my life experiences. I don't care to >convince anyone of the facts as I perceive them. Whether I >glow in the dark, do odd things, or even have essesce of >diesel fuel in my hair doesn't make any difference to me. >But, it does to others who think that it does. > > Sorry, to think that I would care to prove anything >to anyone, is wrong. I reached a point in my life where I >simply don't care what anyone else thinks of or about me. Well, well... you've joined 'The Club!' :) Welcome! Your initiation assignment is to invent the 'Etch-A-Skeptic' > I >have a story to tell and that's all there is to it. If >anyone cares to listen, then they can gleam whatever facts >are pertinent to them for their own reasons. I have a problem with gleaming but sometimes I glean. ;) > Life goes on as it does. Humanity will evolve more, More what? Seems to me a digression of evolution is evident. After all, what would Charles Darwin make of Bill Clinton? As for myself, I think Bill traces his ancestry to the same roots as Richard Nixon and Ray Santilli, Piltdown Man. >religions and cults will flourish, scientists and >politicians will retain their power, spectres of the past >will continue to haunt and the abductions will continue. How did ghosts get into this? :) > Humanity will do what it does to prepare for the day >when we will openly encounter other lifeforms from the >stars. Frankly my Dear, they already have. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 22 Lunar Landing Date From: The Enterprise Mission Web Site Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 20:19:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 20:19:25 -0500 Subject: Lunar Landing Date http://www.enterprisemission.com/ LUNAR LANDING DATE (LLD) Background During the extraordinary evening and events of July 20, 1969 -- Humanity's First Landing on the Moon -- Richard Hoagland was carrying out his duties as official Science Advisor to CBS News, Special Events. As part of his contribution to network lunar coverage, Hoagland had earlier proposed a CBS "walkthrough solar system": to be used by network anchors, correspondents, guests and NASA contractors during the epochal 42 hours of projected CBS coverage -- "The Epic Journey of Apollo 11." The site was to be Downey, California (just south of Los Angeles), main offices of the official NASA Prime Contractor for the Apollo Spacecraft (Command and Service Modules): North American Rockwell. Among Hoagland's other duties in the days leading up to this important evening: recommending key participants; against significant initial opposition, Hoagland eventually won approval to invite one of his own heros, Robert A. Heinlein -- Dean of American Science Fiction -- as one of the Special Guests for a Walter Cronkite interview, on Lunar Landing Night. Heinlein, certainly among devoted science fiction readers (and at least half of NASA's engineers) was a living legend; in addition to writing over two dozen novels and novellas, most of them on the theme of Man's expansion into space, Heinlein had written the screen play (based on his own 1947 novel, "Rocketship Galileo") depicting the first "technically realistic" feature film predicting the great challenges of this unique experience -- "Destination Moon." The location of Cronkite's remote "Heinlein interview" on this and other subjects -- even as humans actually explored the Moon, with Cronkite anchoring the network coverage a continent away from southern California, from New York -- was to take place from Hoagland's own "walkthrough solar system" -- built in one of the huge hangers in which the Apollo spacecraft itself (now orbiting the Moon ...) had over the preceding 8 years been assembled ... Shortly before the interview -- as videotaped replays of Neil Armstrong's instantly immortal footprints, even then, were being instantly displayed over and over again, on TV monitors around the world -- Heinlein and Hoagland walked to the huge, multi-ton, open hanger doors ... and looked up into the Southern Californianight. The evening air felt cool, sharp contrast to the hot glare of television lights brilliantly lighting up the inside "solar system." Above the warm Pacific hung a setting, waxing crescent -- spectacularly framed between the looming hanger doors. Inside, ghostly images of "Neil" and "Buzz" -- cavorting like schoolkids on the lunar surface -- flickered across scores of TV monitors ... even as the two Earthbound observers strained for a glimpse with their own eyes of any sign of "Tranquility Base" upon the hanging crescent Moon ... Finally, breaking the eerie, unreal spell -- a completely unchanged Moon, as if nothing at all important was unfolding on this night, after half a billion years -- Heinlein turned to Hoagland, and spoke aloud what both were thinking, what he would in moments share with Cronkite and the world: "Dick, for all future time, for as long as civilization survives, men and woman will mark history as dating from this Night ... when humans truly left this Earth and First Set Foot Upon Another World. From this moment forward, real History begins ..." Calculations Calculations to identify the present day and date, since The Apollo 11 Landing on the Moon -- July 20, 1969. This calculation is for May 10, 1996. Starting point: July 20, 1969 Years Days Beginning 201st day of 1969 164 1970,71,73,74,75,77,78,79,81,82,83 1985,86,87,89,90,91,93,94,95 365 1972,76,80,84,88,92 Leap years 366 Up to May 10, 1996 131 On May 10th, Total Number of Days since July 20, 1969 = 9791. The Enterprise Mission 122 Dodd St Weehawken NJ 07087 FAX (201) 271-1703
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: Carl Sagan From: "Clarke Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:18:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 08:05:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > Date: Sunday, December 22, 1996 9:42 AM > From: KRandle993@aol.com > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:52:03 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > Carl Sagan's death ends a career which, while otherwise superior in > its achievements, was sullied by his persistence in his latter years in > debunking and ridiculing the abundant evidence for extraterrestrial life > and its visitation to Earth. > It is not credible to sduppose that Dr. Sagan did not know better. It > is a pity that he allowed himself to be used by the UFO Cover-Up. > At least now he knows better. [...snip...] > I would think that an ex-priest would have something kinder to say. I'm just > completing a book about Project Blue Book and plan to include these words: > To Carl Sagan: Who prevented the destruction of the Project Blue Book files > at great personal cost. Thanks, Dr. Sagan. > 1934 - 1996 > KRandle Bravo Kevin! I personally know the quoted commentator well yet even so I was shocked upon reading his mean-spirited comments. His sentiments elsewhere were if anything even worse! I AM grateful to Pat Parrinello for his beautiful words upon this sad news and to Ed Stewart for telling 'the rest of the story'. I had chance to attend a conference this past June in Mesa, Arizona. While there I was confronted by a colleague (sometime conference speaker) of the above individual who proceeded to tell me about certain court proceedings that I had attended as an observer. After advising her of the facts concerning that topic as well as a few others, she asked me why I hadn't also taken him to court if I felt that I had grounds to do so. I replied that he didn't really possess anything of value that I coveted and as far as making an ass out of him, he was quite capable of accomplishing that on his own. It is now obvious that those words weren't hollow. Kindest Regards, Clarke Hathaway SouthWestern Artist and UFO 'buff'.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Dec 96 17:51:39 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 08:06:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance To Rebecca Schatte: Rebecca, <<According to Tony Amato, while the short-term loan of a complete reel of film would be desirable, Kodak would be willing to work with as little as two or three frames. ...">> Thank you. Now Kent is out of it, and it's down to Tony Amato's statements and Bob Shell's statements which are in conflict. Let's see what Bob comes up with, I have already asked him. The only reason it was important was that Kent made this statement on a recent broadcast. <<A better question to ask would be who has the most to gain by misleading anyone?>> Or who has the most to lose? Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: Backlash From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:19:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:17:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Backlash Dear Pat, While I know there were ROTFL gestures made in your message, I was too hot and caustic of late. I get like this when I sit around the house for too long. Maybe need another longhaul load or something. >>>I hate being human and lost in a sea of other ignorant >>>humans! Really! I do know better! >> I resent that. I am an ignorant land deweler. Besides, >> I'm scared of sharks and certain plankton tastes funny. > > Sorry that you thought you were hit upon, Pat. I >was not over-generalizing to prod you. If you take offense, >then don't because I apologize. > > Offense? :) Apologize? For what? Don't you know a > great > contextual pun when you see one? You were supposed to > ROFL, not apologize! :-D >> What we have here is a failure to communicate. > > Actually, I think esoteric flippant waggery on my part > was misinterpreted. I guess I have to admit that I am dealing with a great male superior here. I, I did fail to perceive that ROTFL intention. And, I don't pun all that well. So, any time you feel flippery, then just say and I will ROTF for you, L'ing all the while! >>While it is one thing to see distant lights up in the sky, >>it is quite another to see those lights up close and in my >>face, actively and physically involving me in something >>that the scientific and political communities of the world >>devoutly refuse to acknowlege as even being possible. > I can identify with that... The more I think about it all, the more I think that there is some aspect or form of government that does know and control what is going on. They must have taken it seriously when enough events and reports were gathered about the unidentifieds. And, going beyond that, I know there was some interaction in the early sixties. I couldn't begin to guess just what has evolved since then. >> All of the coverups, illusions, hoaxes and denials >>of the past fifty years have only served to show that we >>as a species don't have what it takes to prove to our >>selves that there are infinite possibilities in the >>universe. > You need to visit my page: >http://www.republic.net/~pparri/mobius.html > and maybe you will see why I disagree with you as >regards "infinite possibilities in the universe." If you are referring to your mobius and comparing it to the universe, then add sixteen other mobiuses, one for each dimension, and then a few others that are beyond random chance factors. My friend was teaching me that the combined universes are infinite while in school I was learning only about the one apparent universe that we barely perceive. Don't worry, I can't explain it well at all. >> I am tired of the bickering, slashing antics of the very >> ones who try to be on our side, trying to prove there >> really is evidence of something going on. > The only evidence, is evidence. Just what that is as > regards people who have such subjective evidence, as > myself, and cannot prove same for others, does in no way > prove that the subjective evidence is invalid. As John > Powell likes to say; "Absence of evidence is not > evidence of absence" I agree. You won't believe anything you don't want to. Until you have evidence and have to believe, only then will you think of what you believe in terms of how it affects your other beliefs. People are often pretty good at living with conflicting facts and factors in their lives. >> Sorry, to think that I would care to prove anything >>to anyone, is wrong. I reached a point in my life where I >>simply don't care what anyone else thinks of or about me. > Well, well... you've joined 'The Club!' :) Welcome! > Your initiation assignment is to invent the > 'Etch-A-Skeptic' Terrific! But, do I have to 'colour' her (or him) in only black and white? What about all of the other colours of the rainbow? Where's all the blue people? NOTE: Please kids, seek parental guidence before following any directions found on the Internet. When in doubt, or if a parent isn't particularly handy, go to your nearest Medical Health Professional. Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 23 Project 1947 - 5602d AISS UFOB LOG From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 21:46:07 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:19:25 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 5602d AISS UFOB LOG Locally mimeographed form used by the 4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron in summarize their UFO investigation. Note this is Captain Ryan's sighting. 4602D AISS UFOB LOG REPORT NUMBER DATE/TIME OF SIGHTING RECD AISOP aiss-ufob-97-56 09/0315Z Apr 56 10 Apr 56 LOCATION OF SIGHTING LOGGED BY A/V between Schenectady an Oswego, New York S/SGT DeRudder MEANS RECD ACTION TAKEN TT Msg No Investigation authorized INVES UNIT DATE INVES ASSIGNED ASSIGNING OFFICER N/A N/A N/A DATE IR RECD HQ DATE IR APPROVED DATE IR TO ATIC N/A N/A N/A DATE FORM 5 10 Apr 56 COMMENTS Due to later sightings and the description of this sighting is [sic] is the opinion of this headquarters that this sighting was probably generated by the planet Venus. CONCLUSIONS PROBABLY ASTRONOMICAL AISOP FORM 7 (2 APR 55) * * * * IR = Intelligence Report. So no intelligence report on this sighting was sent to ATIC by the 4602d AISS and no investigation was made. The evaluation was made from the teletype message sent by the 655th Aircraft Control and Warning Squadron at Watertown. No mention is made of interceptor aircraft flying along side of CPT Ryan airline. Another report about the same time report that a control tower operator at Rome< NY saw and object. An interceptor was scrambled with negative results and "No joy" (ie no radar return). This and several other reports were put down to Venus with no further investigation and IRs to ATIC. JAN ALDRICH
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: Carl Sagan From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 96 20:11:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:20:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan USAF Captain Kevin Randle, (ret.) wrote: > I would think that an ex-priest would have something kinder to say. > I'm just > completing a book about Project Blue Book and plan to include these > words: > To Carl Sagan: Who prevented the destruction of the Project Blue > Book files Kevin: I have personally witnesses and experienced the great mental and emotional distress and trauma brought on hundreds of experiencers of very close UFO and extraterrestrial encounters by the snide, dismissive debunking of same by such "authorities" as Carl Sagan. By his complicity in the UFO Cover-Up, he has immeasurably added to the unnecessary suffering of many tens of thousands of experiencers who have had to try to sift between what their own senses were telling them was real, versus Carl Sagan's bland assurances that there is "no evidence" of extraterrestrial visitation to Earth. Those who have participated in the UFO Cover-Up will have to answer for all the needless suffering they have caused. That day of reckoning is coming. Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: 'Backlash' From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:19:24 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:16:53 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' Hi Julianne and Clark, I hope you and yours will have a very nice Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I thought I would add this to lighten the otherwise heavy topic we are going at. >> Those same experiencers have been investigated, >> poked and prodded by the best of humanity after the fact >> that they were poked and prodded by those aliens. So, >> where is the information for all of those tests and >> investigating? >Unfortunately, no one has come forward with any semblance >of equipment in order to monitor the folks who have the >dubious distinction of experiencing these phenomena on a >somewhat regular basis. It seems that those who would >otherwise be capable of amassing the where with all in >order to begin some honest research in regards to these >phenomena, would much rather make pompous statements as to >what does and what does not constitute reality and then >stick their collective heads in the sand hoping that it >will all go away. Everyone is screaming for electronic monitoring and vid-cams. Is this a joke? That won't yield any information that cannot nor has not already been disproved. Anything that has electronics, electromagnetic components, electrical systems, including batteries, are only a few of the things known to be affected directly by the proximity of a craft. Those toys just won't work at all. And as for pictures, well, we can make pictures say and do anything we please, so that isn't any kind of proof either. We don't have the technology available to provide an effective alternative means of gathering irrefutable proof. Then what? Once we have the golden evidence, what do we do then? Are we supposed to rewrite all of the religions of the world? Are supposed to make new laws to include aliens as equal citizens etc? What about all of the other stuff about our precious world that would change as a direct result of that proof? I am certain no aliens would allow humans to condescendly accept them as equal in anything. They still are debating whether humanity as a species is even worth considering as a sentient lifeform. >>Just where does anyone who exhibits Post Abduction Trauma >>syndrome go to get help for the host of problems and other >>difficulties that they endure after the fact? Can they go >>to the police? To the Lawyers? To medical pofessionals? >>To the local witchdoctor? >Significant question. I wish we had some one else to turn >to save psychologists alone, but practically no one else >has come forward. My experience has shown me that these too >are extremely prone to the adoption of attitudes and >assumptions in regards to the phenomena if not the trauma. >My view on this is that it does NOT constitute HONEST >research and in regards to steering an experiencer towards >the adoption of an attitude of acceptance of the >perpetrators actions being benevolent, is extremely >dangerous. Further, I feel the assumption on the part of >many that these 'others' are 'Aliens' from across the >galaxy who are fairly recent arrivals Is highly dangerous >as well. I agree with you here. There is no real and available help for abductees who have some serious problems. It isn't just one conflict that has to be dealt with. There is a whole load of stuff that can directly interfere with a person's mind. At this point I would like to suggest a new class of medical health professional. Such a person would be capable of helping abductees in the manners and ways that the abductee really needs. But then, I sometimes play with Barbie dolls too. >Please allow me to ask of you a question. If you are an >abductee, experiencer or whatever other label you >wish to put to it, did your experience(s) have a high >incidence of paranormal phenomena? While I don't like labels, I have had experiences that make me fit in a few catagories at once. Let me explain that the human brain operates at very minimal levels nromally. When a craft approaches, it can trigger higher levels of mental activity. The brain draws upon its resources to the extent that it can. Intelligence soars. Capabilities otherwise latent in the human are dramatically increased. Telepathy and other paranormal events are more likely to occur as perceptions and capabilities adjust to the new values. It is very difficult for humans to cope with such radical changes. Beyond the internal changes wrought in a human mind, there are many other external tools brought into play during a routine abduction scenario. All of this is a story in itself. So, to answer your question about the paranormal, definitely yes there is an increase in paranormal activity. Up until I was twelve years old, I can honestly say that I was a real mess. I cried a lot. I was afraid of being alone, the dark, the boogie man under my bed, Mr.Peanut, the Conductor, and of seeing myself in a mirror. I probably would not have successfully lived into adulthood. There were lots of other troubles I had to contend with too. When I was twelve years old, my friend had come to me regularly. I was given a lot of help to repair my mental and physical capabilities. I could not have gotten that kind of help in any other way. I try to return that favour by helping others whenever and wherever possible. My story is a long one so I won't go into details. Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 23 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 1, Number 43 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 21:39:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:18:30 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 1, Number 43 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 1, Number 43 December 22, 1996 Editor: Masinaigan FREE GREEN FIREBALL SHAKES UP THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST On Tuesday, December 17, 1996, at 6:15 a.m., people living in the Pacific Northwest were startled to see "a glowing green fireball" approaching from the western horizon. An early morning commuter in Maple Valley, Washington, east of Seattle, reported that the unusual fireball "came to within 500 feet" of his car before shooting off in an easterly direction towards Wenatchee. People living in King and Snohomish counties reported seeing the fireball "go down near Richmond Beach" on Puget Sound. The King County Sheriff's Department told the Seattle Times that they'd received many calls about the fireball from residents of Issaquah (population 5,536) and Bellevue (population 74,000). Bellevue is located across Lake Washington from Seattle, on the eastern shore. Issaquah is 15 miles (24 kilometers) to the southeast of Bellevue, just south of Lake Sammamish. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) also received calls from Skagit County, Washington and as far south as Tigard, Oregon and Salem, Oregon. (See the Seattle Times for December 17, 1996, page 1) North of Seattle, in Anacortes, Washington, radio station KLKI received 40 phone calls about the fireball. Radio stations in Spokane, Washington, which is 280 miles (448 kilometers) east of Seattle, also received phone calls from eyewitnesses, who claimed the fireball was heading for Idaho. North of the border, in Courtenay, British Columbia (population 7,800), a man named O'Carrol was scraping the snow from his car windshield when, suddenly, the neighboring houses began to glow with a feeble green light. Looking skyward, he saw "a huge, flaming, sparking, greenish-blue light ball" that appeared to be "throwing off white sparks." The fireball hurtled toward the eastern horizon. "Several seconds later," O'Carrol said, "there was quite a boom, and I thought, 'Wow! I wonder what that was.'" The National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle reportedly said "two meteors" were responsible for the sighting. Gary Mayer, the FAA duty officer in Renton, Washington, said the light was not caused by any aircraft and he "assumed it was a meteorite." Perhaps one of the Geminids. (Thanks to Brian D. Zeiler for the Seattle Times article, and thanks to Laurie Elmore for the Courtenay, B.C. information.) (Editor's Comment: It's highly unlikely that it was one of the Geminid meteors. That shower ended at 7 p.m. December 14. The next meteor shower, the Ursids, was scheduled to begin at 1 a.m. today, December 22. It'll be interesting to see if we have any more "green fireball" reports this coming week.) EGG-SHAPED UFO APPEARS OVER SIMI VALLEY On Thursday, December 12, Marta Ramirez was walking down the street in Simi Valley, California when she spied a UFO. Here is her eyewitness report: "I witnessed a sighting at approximately 3:30 p.m. The object was traveling at an unimaginable speed. It was heading somewhat in the direction of Malibu. Two people other than myself witnessed it. The object streaked across the sky, then rapidly slowed to a stop. After maintaining a stationary position for a few seconds, it then went straight up and began doing zigzag maneuvers for quite a while before shooting off in a northeasterly direction. I was not able to estimate the elevation (altitude) of the UFO, but it did not appear to be extremely high up, nor was it extremely big. Sunlight glinted off the top and bottom of the craft, which appeared to be a slightly flattened egg shape. There was no sound coming from the object that I could hear. The object left no contrail, while all the other planes in the sky had been leaving contrails." (Unsolicited Email) UFO FLAP CONTINUES IN SOUTHERN BRAZIL On Thursday, November 28, 1996, Dr. Sergio Lott Silveira, 36, a physician from Sao Paulo, Brazil took off from that city's airport in his Orion airplane. Dr. Lott Silveira was headed west to Curitiba for a conference. Several minutes into the flight, he noticed that his plane was being paced by "a luminous object." The UFO kept pace with his plane for several minutes before zipping away to the north. This was the latest incident in the long-running UFO flap in the state of Sao Paulo, a flap which began with the UFO crash near Varginha, M.G. last January. On October 5, 1996, a large cigar-shaped UFO appeared over the city of Sorocaba (population 378,000), 110 kilometers (66 miles) west of Sao Paulo. The sighting took place at 10:25 p.m. People on the Avenida General Carneiro and the Rua 15 de Novembre saw the object passing beneath the clouds at an estimated altitude of 800 meters (2,500 feet). A single- engine Tupy airplane passed beneath the UFO at an altitude of 500 meters (1,500 feet) but apparently did not notice the UFO. No electromagnetic effects were reported in conjunction with the UFO's appearance. The following night, October 6, was rainy with low clouds. At 11 p.m., people on the ground saw a huge triangular UFO cross the Castelo Branco Highway and pass over downtown Sorocaba. The triangular UFO had "a flourescent-type white light that turned on and off in sequence." The blinking light appeared at each corner of the triangle in quick succession. The object formed one triangle of bright light. Then it formed a second light triangle. Seconds later, it disappeared. (Many thanks to Brazilian ufologist Sergio Graciotti for the Sao Paulo update.) LONE UFO AND SKY BOOMS PLAGUE FRANCE On October 19, 1996, a solitary "luminous ball of an unusual size" appeared over the village of Val de Reuil in northern France. On October 23, the same luminous UFO turned up over Vire. The following day, October 24, it appeared over Gasny. On October 22, at 12 noon, there was a mysterious sky explosion over Guichainville. Three hours later, a second boom resounded over Eure. At Vernon, two booms were reported at 2:05 p.m. At the Lycee (high school) in Vernon, the teens reported a shaking in the student lounge. Other French towns reporting a mysterious sky boom at 3 p.m. that day included Houlbec Cocherel, St. Aubin les Elbeuf, Garlon, Louviers, Evereux, Lyons La Foret, La Madaleine de Nonencourt, Lery, Gasny, Val de Reuil and Notre Dame de la Garenne. (Many thanks to Thierry Garnier and the Cercle Ufologique de Haute-Normandie for this story.) UFO SEEN IN COLORADO'S MYSTERIOUS VALLEY On November 13, 1996, at 6 p.m., ranchers living 20 miles (32 kilometers) west of Salida, Colorado (population 4,900) sighted "a large, dazzling ball of light moving from north to south." Witnesses had the UFO in view for 4 to 5 seconds. "Some said it was huge, the size of the full moon, and was either white or a rainbow color." The UFO was seen by many people between Salida and Chama, New Mexico, on the state line. (Many thanks to Tim Edwards for this report.) HUGE WHITE UFO SEEN OVER NEW JERSEY On November 19, 1996, at approximately 10:30 p.m., Robert Liggett was driving on the Garden State Parkway, near Exit 90 in Lakewood, New Jersey, when he suddenly spotted a bright flash in his windshield. "The light itself was pure white," Robert recalled. "There was no visible shape, even though the sky was very clear." He estimated that the UFO was "as high as a commercial aircraft will fly." "If you were to freeze-frame the brightest flash and look at its brightness (between) your thumb and pointing finger, and measure it that way, you would have a gap between those two fingers of at least five inches. By contrast, an actual jetliner with the thumb-and-finger method, the gap would be 1/2 of an inch." As he watched the UFO, it dropped to "at least 45 degrees above the horizon. The trajectory was flat out, perfectly straight across the sky." (Email Interview) (Editor's Note: R.L.'s object was at least six times larger than a commercial jetliner. If a jetliner's wingspan is 155 feet, then the estimated diameter of the UFO would be a whopping 930 feet or 310 meters.) CROWDS WATCH UFOs FLY OVER ALICE SPRINGS Alice Springs, a city in central Australia, continues to draw UFOs and some unexpected human visitors, as well. On Monday, November 25, 1996, at 11:15 p.m., people in Alice Springs reported seeing "four intense orange fireball lights" flying over the city "before heading in a westerly direction." On Tuesday night, November 26, the Alice Springs police "were able to catch on video a number of lights flying in formation across the sky. These were sighted by hundreds of people" who bombarded the central police station with phone calls. According to Glennys M. Mackey of Queensland UFO Network (QUFON), "Every now and then, one or two lights would leave the formation and fly off in different directions at great speed before rejoining the group." The same night, an orange-fireball UFO was spotted hovering near the Joint Defence Facility at Pine Gap, a short distance from Alice Springs. The JDF is a top-secret installation operated by the United States and Australia. The following evening, November 27, Alice Springs police received several calls of "bright objects bobbing up and down." Two police cruisers were dispatched. One cruiser "came across a plastic bag by the side of the road all ready and prepared to send off into the sky." The second cruiser took a back road out of Alice Springs and, out in the bush, "came across a car acting suspiciously. Two (American) men were in the car. He (the constable) asked what they were doing. Searching the car, the cop found 'balloon-making equipment.' The cop asked them to accompany him back to the station...He also demanded to see (some) I.D. The two Americans reluctantly produced ID cards linking them to the Dept. of Joint Facilities at Pine Gap." The morning of November 29, a local resident phoned the JDF and asked about the "orange fireballs." He was told not to worry and that these were "just weather balloons." (Thanks to Glennys M. Mackey of QUFON and Errol Bruce-Knapp of UFO Updates for this story.) (Editor's Comment: Isn't that a clever way to "explain" three weeks of UFO sightings in Alice Springs? Just fill the car with balloon-making equipment, drive around in the desert with your lights off, and wait for the Australian police to pull you over. Voila, it was all just a JDF weather experiment. Your editor finds it interesting, though, that they didn't pull this scam until RIGHT AFTER an "orange fireball" visited the Pine Gap station.) MORE INTERESTING WEBSITES Speaking of mystery-shrouded science laboratories, have you ever heard of the Bearspaw Genetics Lab just west of Calgary, Alberta? Your editor hadn't either--until he visited this site. Built in 1954, Bearspaw has had plenty of weird UFO and Bigfoot experiences over the years. Alan Merrett has the whole story at his site, which you'll find at http://www.linex.com/ufo. Or you can email Alan at amerrett@westlink.net. Ken Green has a new site up and running that deals with UFOs, Roswell, the Philadelphia Experiment, crop circles and more. Check it out at http://www.mother.com/~green3/ ufo.htm. Jorgen Westman has 63 UFO articles on file at his page. Choose by frames or non-frames. You can log in at this address: http://www.wufoc.com. The group Tri-States Advocates for Scientific Knowledge (T.A.S.K.) now has their own Website. If you want the in-depth story on this year's UFO flap in Ohio, check them out at http://home.fuse.net/task/ Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, for complete and detailed coverage of recent sightings and encounters all over the world. You can reach them at this address-- http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm And for back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, try us at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts Got a recently-seen UFO to report? Send us your email at Masinaigan@aol.com. Here's wishing our readers worldwide a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year from "the paper that goes home... UFO ROUNDUP."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 23 Server Difficulties From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 13:46:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 13:46:35 -0500 Subject: Server Difficulties Santa's helpers are frenzidly working to correct the problem..... mail seems to go out but none comes in UpDates direction. Please hold posts till further notice. Thanks,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 24 'The Twelve Days of Abduction' <G> From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 01:03:22 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:16:00 -0500 Subject: 'The Twelve Days of Abduction' <G> From: Ann Onymous Note from the author: Heavy stuff on the NET these days! For a change of pace, I dashed off the following. Sing to the tune of The Twelve Days of Christmas. I don't mind if you post it, but sign me Ann Onymous. THE TWELVE DAYS OF ABDUCTION On the first day of abduction my ET gave to me...An implant behind the right knee. On the second day etc..........two skinny babes and an implant behind the right knee. On the third day, etc............three missing hours, etc. On the fourth day, etc...........four wierd dreams, etc. On the fifth day, etc............five boomerangs, etc. On the sixth day, etc............six ugly bruises, etc. On the seventh day, etc..........seven scarey movies, etc. On the eighth day, etc...........eight balls of lighting, etc. On the ninth day, etc............nine confusing symbols, etc. On the tenth day, etc............ten flying saucers, etc. On the eleventh day, etc.........eleven helicopters, etc. On the twelfth day, etc..........twelve investigators, etc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 24 Re: Server Difficulties Here..... From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:13:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:13:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Server Difficulties Here..... The Voice Support Line was jammed with calls for _many_ hours apparently <G> Uh... will it go round in circles? ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 24 STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:15:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:15:00 -0500 Subject: STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' Here's another..... ebk ________________________________________ Richard C. Hoagland on 'The Art Bell Show', Friday night/Saturday morning 20th December, 1996. on STS 48 Shuttle (Discovery) Cargo Bay camera footage: Bell: .....to our first time caller-line..... Caller: Today on a television program I saw a video that was supposedly taken from a camera on the space-shuttle 'Discovery' and it was a shot of unidentified flying object..... RCH: Oh, yes, the STS 48 video..... Caller: Do you know anything about this? I'd never seen this before. RCH: Oh, sure... Bell: Sure, go ahead and comment on that - it's very startling video and there are two explanations, one..... RCH: If you want to see it in context, call my 800 number and you order our 'UN Briefing' video and we have a half-hour analysis of this video at the end of the two hour UN Presentation on the physics and the artifacts on Mars, etc., etc. Bell: But basically..... RCH: The video was shot by NASA, it was down-linked 'live' to earth on the evening of September 15th 1991, it was taped at multiple places around the world because it was sent by satellite by NASA, all over. It was shot 'live' looking to the North-West over Australia, looking back over the Timor Sea across New Zealand and South-East Asia, and it was from the shuttle at an altitude of 355 miles. The horizon of the Earth, a darkened horizon was almost two-thousand miles behind the space-craft. And, on this video, as the shuttle came up on _19.5_ _degrees_ over Australia, there were this set of remarkable objects one of which appears in the centre of the frame, moves laterally along the curved earth-horizon, and that after a flash of light which fills the screen, it darts off into space at an estimated speed, by our calculation of over two-hundred-thousand miles per hour! And it was down-linked 'live' by NASA to the world. Bell: Well, of course, NASA has another explanation, but we'll not argue that right now. What I would like to ask you is..... had that not come down 'live', but rather had been archived and brought down, would the public have ever seen it? RCH: No! And the reason we know that is because after that, on every subsequent mission from September of 1991 on, there has been no 'live' video from outside the shuttle. Bell: Well, let 'em think about that..... RCH: They have a fifty second delay in the loop. You see 'live' video from inside the cabin, but not from outside. [Bell, laughs quietly BG] NASA doesn't want you to see 'live' video from right upstairs. Bell: I understand, uh, believe me I do. [end of excerpt]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 24 AUFORA - Doubt cast on Martian life theory From: AUFORA News Update <dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 00:11:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:59:36 -0500 Subject: AUFORA - Doubt cast on Martian life theory AUFORA News Update Sunday, December 22nd, 1996 <www.helios.org> ___________________________ DOUBT CAST ON MARTIAN LIFE THEORY from CNN NEW YORK (CNN) -- Independent tests have cast doubt over earlier studies that detected possible signs of past life on a Martian meteorite, according to an article in Sunday's New York Times. Results of one study appeared to invalidate three of four lines of evidence scientists said in August were signs of microorganisms, and another study raised doubts about the fourth line of evidence. Dr. David McKay and Dr. Everett Gibson Jr. of the Johnson Space Center in Houston reported on studies they led that concluded a meteorite, found in Antarctica and believed to come from Mars, contained evidence of nanobacteria. Their studies, they said, found evidence of carbonate globules that may indicate water, deposits of minerals that have in some cases been produced by bacteria, structures that resemble bacterial fossils on Earth, and rock compounds that often have biological origins. Scientists who worked on the latest studies were almost apologetic about their findings, and stressed that their findings did not conclusively rule out the possibility of life on Mars. The new studies indicated that some of the signs taken to indicate possible life could have come from contaminates on the Antarctic ice. "There is nothing else in this rock that looks like nanofossils, and the things that look like nanofossils aren't," said Dr. Harry McSween Jr. of the University of Tennessee at Knoxville. McKay said that his team disagreed with the new interpretation. "We're basically not worried by all this," he said. "For one reason, we don't think they're looking at the same places in the meteorite." McKay added that his team was preparing reports on further examination of the rock and would be presenting the findings in two to three months. When the findings were originally reported, the scientists stressed that none of the four lines of evidence proved the existence of past life, but that all four taken together make a compelling case for microbial life on Mars. The report of the new studies -- by McSween, Dr. Ralph Harvey of Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland and Dr. John Bradley, a geochemist and executive director of MVA Inc., a company in Norcross, Georgia, that specializes in the microscopic analysis of materials -- appeared in Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, an international journal of geochemistry. __________________ AUFORA News Update News, Information, Facts from the world of UFOlogy To subscribe send e-mail to: dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ Helios Science News: http://www.helios.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 NSA documents now ready for download From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 01:18:03 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:00:38 -0500 Subject: NSA documents now ready for download From: John Greenewald Jr. <greeney@primenet.com> To: in_search_of@primenet.com Hello everyone, Just thought that I would let you know, after a few hours of hard work, I have now converted 165 pages of national Security Agency documents released to me in a FOIA request have now been converted from html to self viewing ascii .com files. If interested in download, please point your browsers to http://www.primenet.com/~greeney/ufo/nsazip.html I hope everyone finds this new addition to The Black Vault useful. I will be doing this with every FOIA case which I receive a lot of documents. Enjoy and Merry Christmas :) Sincerely, John Greenewald ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Vault http://www.primenet.com/~greeney/ufo.html Government Conspiracy involving "Flying Saucers" from beyond our imaginations? Some say 'YES!' and others say 'NO WAY!'. Well in this vault, you will find more then enough proof to make up your mind on UFOs and the alleged government conspiracy. All documents were obtained through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). These documents are all 100% real... straight from the government. -----------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 From the US Naval Academy Mail List- [C4I-Pro] UFO From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 01:22:56 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:01:26 -0500 Subject: From the US Naval Academy Mail List- [C4I-Pro] UFO From Owner-C4I-Pro@azure.stl.nps.navy.mil Tue Mar 5 05:38 EST 1996 Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 08:18:52 +0000 From: NIEMIB@100arw.mildenhall.af.mil (NIEMIB) Subject: [C4I-Pro] UFO sites To: c4i-pro@azure.stl.nps.navy.mil X-Warning: UNCLASSIFIED, NON-SENSITIVE, NON-PRIVACY ACT USE ONLY X-Disclaimer: C4I-Pro is an unofficial list run in a DoD school environment in the interest of an academic exchange of information and ideas as a means for advancement of C4I related issues. Views expressed in messages posted are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Naval Postgraduate School, the Department of the Navy, or the Department of Defense. POC: <c4i-pro-owner@stl.nps.navy.mil>. X-Information: For information on C4I-Pro (such as how to post messages and unsubscribe) send "info c4i-pro" in the body of a message to: <majordomo@stl.nps.navy.mil>. NIEMIB@100arw.mildenhall.af.mil (NIEMIB) WAAAAAAAAAAY back in digest #220, Mr Hugh Blanchard wrote: >VTPE95A@prodigy.com (MR HUGH V BLANCHARD) >Dear Terry, >Sorry...I guess I shouldn't have been critical...it is some seriously >funny stuff. The rub is that there is a not inconsiderable element >of society that actually subscribes to some of these crazy theories. >Do you have some URL's on the Web for the UFO freaks? I'd llike to >look at some of their stuff. >Best regards, Hugh Blanchard Here's some stuff that I picked up. (from the Feb 96 issue of NetUser mag, Paragon Publishing, UK) Extraterrestrial Biological Entity Page (****) http://sloop.ee.fit.edu/users/lpinto/index.html Alien Online (***) http://www.crs4.it/~mameli/Alien.html Contact From the Pleiades (*****) ! http://www.earthlink.net/~pleja UFOs and ETs (****) http://www.io.org/~dnewton/ufo.html Alien Information (*****) ! http://www.iinet.com.au/~bertino/alien.html The Way (****) http://www.webcom.com/~way/intro.html UFO Links (****) http://www.io.com/~sheo/ufo.html The Real UFO Page (***) http://www.discribe.ca.ufo/ Galactic Central (*****) ! http://www.efn.org/~lcapt/ UFO Bibliography (****) http://www.cis.ksu.edu/~psiber/substand/ufo.html UFO and Alien Images (****) http://www.users.interport.net/~regulus/aliens/ufos.html Department of Interplanetary Affairs (****) http://www.maui.net/~daryl/enmar.html UFO Recources Directory (*****) ! http:/www.shef.ac.uk/~isweb/studwork/cat3/home.html Internet UFO Group (****) http://users.aol.com/iufog/ Yahoo (****) ? http://www.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Paranormal_Phenomena/ UFO_Information/ Jody's 'ET Phone Home" Page (****) http://nic2.hawaii.net/~boyne/ Crop Circle Connector (*****) ! http://www.hub.co.uk/intercafe/cropcircle/connector.html The SETI Institute (****) http://www.seti-inst.edu/ Roswell Resource Center (****) http://www.gold.net/cb1/roswell/ Smitty's UFO Page (****) http://www.schmitzware.com/ufo.html I don't give the ratings, I just pass them on. AND, if you are still paying attention, here is a page you just have to hit!!!! 50 Greatest Conspiracies of All Time http://www.webcom.com:80/~conspire/ (no, I have never hit any of these sites, but you asked.....) Brian Niemi, SrA, USAF Search for other documents from or mentioning: d005734c | owner-c4i-pro
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Excerpt from Vallee's Mesengers of Deception From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 01:29:23 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:02:13 -0500 Subject: Excerpt from Vallee's Mesengers of Deception (From): DAVID BROWN (To) : ALL System: TEXSTAR Conf. : 0021 - Fidonet_UFO --------------------------------------------------------------------- Excerpts from "Messengers of Deception" - (c) 1979 Jacques Vallee, And/Or Press, Berkeley CA 94702, ISBN: 0-915904-38-1. --------------------------------------------------------------------- [...] Scientific analysis will undoubtedly provide part of the truth about UFOs; however, I no longer believe it will lead to the whole truth. I owe this realization to a man I shall call "Major Murphy," although his actual rank is much higher than that of Major. He taught me a lesson I am not likely to forget. Major Murphy, who retired from a U.S. Intelligence service quite a few years ago, had seen action in World War II in Italy, and also described vividly his investigations in the Caribbean, where he organized efforts to intercept submarines and German spies on their way to the United States. I met him at a gathering of UFO contactees and suggested a drink when it was over. I expressed my surprise at his interest in the event, which I had regarded as a complete waste of time. He asked me to clarify this judgement, and I said that in my opinion none of the people in attendance knew anything about science. Then he posed a question that, obvious as it seems, had not really occurred to me: "What makes you think that UFOs are a scientific problem?" I replied with something to the effect that a problem was only scientific in the way it was approached, but he would have none of that, and he began lecturing me. First, he said, science had certain rules. For example, it has to assume that the phenomenon it is observing is natural in origin rather than artificial and possibly biased. Now, the UFO phenomenon could be controlled by alien beings. "If it is," added the Major, "then the study of it doesn't belong in science. It belongs in Intelligence." MEANING COUNTERESPIONAGE. And that, he pointed out, was his domain. "Now, in the field of counterespionage, the rules are completely different." He drew a simple diagram in my notebook. "You are a scientist. In science there is no concept of the 'price' of information. Suppose I gave you 95 per cent of the data concerning a phenomenon. You're happy because you know 95 per cent of the phenomenon. Not so in Intelligence. If I get 95 per cent of the data, I know this is the 'cheap' part of the information. I still need the other 5 per cent, but I will have to pay a much higher price to get it. You see, Hitler had 95 per cent of the information about the landing in Normandy. But he had the WRONG 95 PER CENT!" "Are you saying that the UFO data we use to compile statistics and to find patterns with computers are useless?" I asked. "Might we be spinning our magnetic tapes endlessly discovering spurious laws?" "It all depends on how the team on the OTHER SIDE thinks. If they know what they're doing, there will be so many cutouts between you and them that you won't have the slightest chance of tracing your way to the truth. Not by following up sightings and throwing them into a computer. They will keep feeding you the information they want you to process. What is the only source of data about the UFO phenomenon? It is the UFOs themselves!" Some things were beginning to make a lot of sense. "If you're right, what can I do? It seems that research on the phenomenon is hopeless, then. I might as well dump my computer into a river." "Not necessarily, but you should try a different approach. First you should work entirely outside of the organized UFO groups; they are infiltrated by the same official agencies they are trying to influence, and they propagate any rumor anyone wants to have circulated. In Intelligence circles, people like that are historical necessities. We call them 'useful idiots.' When you've worked long enough for Uncle Sam, you know he is involved in a lot of strange things. The data these groups get are biased at the source, but they play a useful role. "Second, you should look for the irrational, the bizarre, the elements that do not fit: that's what I have come to observe at this meeting tonight. Have you ever felt that you were getting close to something that didn't seem to fit any rational pattern, yet gave you a strong impression that it was significant?" [... Deleted: Vallee's discussion of the immortality-claming group "Human Individual Metamorphosis," the strange life of Jacques Bordas, and the mysterious Order of Melchizedek...] [continued] # Origin: The Alien Biker Kat, ZOOMing..! (1:202/1010) (From): DAVID BROWN (To) : ALL System: TEXSTAR Conf. : 0021 - Fidonet_UFO --------------------------------------------------------------------- Excerpts from "Messengers of Deception" - (c) 1979 Jacques Vallee, And/Or Press, Berkeley CA 94702, IBN: 0-915904-38-1. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The absurdity of many UFO stories and of many religious visions is not a superficial logical mistake. It may be the key to their function. According to Major Murphy, the confusion in the UFO mystery may have been put there deliberately to achieve certain results. One of these results has been to keep scientists away. The other is to create the conditions for a new form of social control, a change in Man's perception of his place in the universe. Are his theories fantastic? Before we decide, let us review a few other facts. We need to examine more closely the political connections. Paris Flammonde, in his well-documented "Age of Flying Saucers," remarked that "a great many of the contactees purvey philosophies which are tinged, if not tainted, with totalitarian overtones." A catalogue of contactee themes, compiled from interviews I have conducted, includes the following. INTELLECTUAL ABDICATION. The widespread belief that human beings are incapable of solving their own problems, and that extraterrestrial intervention is imperative to save us "in spite of ourselves." The danger in such a philosophy is that it makes its believers dependent on outside forces and discourages personal responsibility: why should we worry about the problems around us, if the Gods from Outer Space are about to solve them? RACIST PHILOSOPHY. The pernicious suggestion that some of us on the Earth are of extraterrestrial descent and therefore constitute a "higher race." The dangers inherent in this belief should be obvious to anybody who hasn't forgotten the genocides of World War II, executed on the premise that some races were somehow "purer" or better than others. (Let us note in passing that Adamski's Venusian, the Stranger of the Canigou seen by Bordas, and many other alleged extraterrstrials were all tall Aryan types with long blond hair.) TECHNICAL IMPOTENCE. The statement that the birth of civilization on this planet resulted not from the genius and ability of mankind, but from repeated assistance by higher beings. Archaeologists and anthropologists are constantly aware of the marvelous skill with which the "Ancient Engineers" (to use L. Sprague de Camp's phrase) developed the tools of civilization on all continuts. No appear to superior powers is necessary to explain the achievements of early culture. The belief expressed by the contactees reveals a tragic lack of trust on their part in human ability. SOCIAL UTOPIA. Fantastic economic theories, including the belief that a "world economy" can be created overnight, and that democracy should be aboloished in favor of utopian systems, usually dictatorial in their outlook. Such ideas are present, in one form or another, in the statements of organized UFO cults and sects that are described here, and they deserve to be examined in some detail. -------------------------------------------------------------------- # Origin: The Alien Biker Kat, ZOOMing..! (1:202/1010)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Debunking Vs. Counterintelligence: Reflections From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 01:31:13 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:03:05 -0500 Subject: Debunking Vs. Counterintelligence: Reflections Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:36:52 -0400 From: snet (Glenda M Stocks) To: snet@world.std.com The following is an article that was published in the HUFON Journal, 1992. Debunking Versus Counterintelligence: Reflections of a Pro-Ufologist by Richard D. Butler To the pro-ufologist, debunking and counterintelligence (CI) efforts are seen as the greatest hindrances to legitimate research. The two terms are frequently used as synonyms. In fact, they are two very distinct operations. Debunking has two sources: the U.S. government and civilians. The civilian debunkers are usually professional academics, whose motivationis principally reactionary protection against a challenge to their world view. They see UFOs, and belief in UFOs and even organized study of UFOs as a threat to their own reality system. The protective strategy is, in psychological terms, the well-known process called "denial." We see it in alcoholics, and we see it in UFO-bashers. It is also quite an efficient way to handle complex data and hypotheses. Simply deny it, make a joke, and move on and away from the challenge. Ridicule is an almost essential part of the denial process. The debunker strives to convince not only his audience that the subject is nonsense, but he must also convince himself. The self-imposed wall of denial is enforced by ridicule. There is nothing new about the debunking process. The history of science is, in a sense, the history of debunking. Clearly, every important advance in science has been met with ridicule. A recent example is the development of the atomic bomb. Top scientists were skeptical that the bomb would work. President Roosevelt's military aide stated that, as an expert in explosives, he could assure the President that the atomic bomb would never, and could never, explode! Yet in the early morning hours over the Trinity Site, a tiny flower of hell blossomed in the desert. The impossible had become awesomely real. Physicist J. Robert Oppenheimer was heard intoning, "Behold I become death, a shatterer of worlds." This was an apt epitaph for the debunkers, whose psychological world was shattered. Debunking has been with us since the first debunker laughed at the man who decided to move out of the cave. In a particularly difficult field of research like ufology, the debunker must be accepted as something that simply comes with the territory. We must groan, but accept the old saying, "If you can9t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.3 The second category of debunking is the official U.S. government version. This brings us into the deep waters of counterintelligence. CI is defined as specific and planned activities conducted to destroy the effectiveness of a foreign intelligence operation. There are various sub-operations within the heading of CI. The one of most importance to this discussion is counterespionage, which is those activities carried out to neutralize another intelligence gathering group. Its operational parameters include penetration, deception, and manipulation of those suspected of conducting espionage activities. And it's all perfectly legal: presidential executive orders have made it so. Because these activities are necessarily covert, not much is known about them by the general public. CI operations are staffed by highly skilled and dedicated personnel. Their goal is to deny an enemy information which could be used to destroy our lives, property, and way of life. But how does the UFO business tie in? National Intelligence is the key term. This is defined as any intelligence information produced by the CIA (or other equivalent agency) that bears on the broad aspects of national policy and the national security of the United States. This intelligence is then analyzed to determine if a threat condition exists. If the answer is "yes," a Threat Analysis Report is prepared. The report identifies and locates the threat, and estimates the potential damage levels which the threat could inflict. The Threat Analysis Report is sent to the National Security Council (NSC) for review. The Council, in turn, advises the President with respect to formulation and integration of domestic, foreign, and military policies. Once the threat is confirmed by the NSC, various agencies will be tasked to perform both the intelligence and counterintelligence functions, as well as accelerated defensive weapons programs. It is time to look at the UFO intelligence gathering program. Most ufologists will probably be shocked by the nature and dimensions of this operation. Every ufologist and UFO organization in the world is an overt intelligence-gathering asset of the United States. Your job as a ufologist is to monitor all UFO activities, including sightings, landings and abductions. This information is published, providing an intelligence channel back into the system. The CIA has the mission of collecting all published civilian UFO intelligence data. An Air Force public information release (still in use) tells us that their investigation of UFOs ended with the deactivation of Project Blue Book. Further, it says that UFO investigations have been turned over to academic institutions and civilian UFO research organizations. In practice, this means that information of genuine scientific value will not be overlooked. In other words, Blue Book never really ended, it just changed hands. And, whether you know it or not, or like it or not, you are part of the intelligence-gathering network, feeding straight to the CIA's UFO files. But this particular brand of intelligence data is perfectly open to the public, in the form of UFO books, journals and public meetings. And this presents the government with a unique problem. As a UFO researcher, you are simultaneously gathering data for the government, and trying to break through the wall of secrecy to discover what the government knows. You are spying for them, and spying on them. By spying on your own government and, in fact, doing so in a very aggressive manner, you automatically trigger the counter-intelligence machinery. The task of screwing you up, meaning the official CI operation against ufologists, is assigned to Security and Counter- intelligence Special Operations departments within various intelligence agencies. Note the three main mission criteria: (1) Denial to ufologists of the government's offensive and defensive weapons capabilities; (2) Denial to ufologists of the government's intelligence gathering capabilities and level of analysis; and (3) Prevention of direct or indirect Psychological Warfare effect. Are these measures justifiable? In the balance are our rights as U.S. citizens versus the degradation of America's national security caused by release of the UFO information? With this in mind, let's review the three criteria in detail. Item (1) is fairly obvious. If a potential enemy learns our weapons technology, he can develop countermeasures. This in turn would render the weapons system useless, and make us vulnerable to attack. So the answer is a clear and resounding "No!" to release. Item (2) is the reverse side of item (1). We are gathering information in order to make the enemy's weapons ineffective. Here is a purely hypothetical example. Suppose we are successful through FOIA, or through what you must admit amounts to standard espionage techniques which we call "UFO research," and discover that the government has photos of a UFO hovering above a submarine. Moreover, the information we have obtained tells us that the submarine is at a depth of 50 fathoms. We also get pictures taken at 100 and 200 fathoms, and quickly publish all the facts. The Soviet submarine commanders would get the message at once. The U.S. anti-submarine surveillance technology is only capable of imaging down to 200 fathoms. So they would design attack strategies in which they would cruise without worry at depths below that level. Bad news for our side, and it puts ufologists on the wrong end of the logic of item (2). Item (3) is by far the most complex issue. Psychological Warfare is accomplished by two main methods. First, direct aggressive efforts aimed at the enemy, and second, indirect damage caused by release of information regarding the enemy's capabilities and intentions. The purpose of "Psy War" is to erode the will of the enemy nation, and it can have a devastating impact on military effectiveness. A battle lost in the mind usually translates directly to military defeat. But the effects of Psy War go beyond military targets. Both government and private institutions can be severely damaged. An example is the stock market crash which took place just before the Gulf War. This is minor compared with the psychological shock waves that would be produced by release of certain UFO information. In fact, the harm would almost certainly be unprecedented in terms of damage levels, with major impact on basic religious and economic institutions. The major methods employed by UFO counterintelligence are debunking and disinformation. Debunking can be as simple as using the technique of over-simplification of analysis. For example, the time-honored quick answer to a UFO sighting, such as "weather balloon," or "swamp gas." Disinformation, however, should be our main area of concern. It uses a technique known in the trade as "plausible denial." One way to view this is that the information is 2% truth and 98% nonsense, of some mixture of the two, but never the whole truth. It must appear legitimate on the surface, but have enough bunk in it to send you off in a totally wrong direction. By far the most powerful weapon in the UFO counter-intelligence arsenal is the ufologists themselves. A former CI officer once remarked to me about a prominent New York City ufologist, "If he didn't exist, we'd have to invent him." There is nothing that counterintelligence operators appreciate more than a gullible ufologist i.e. born again lesbian lizards from Antares, seven-foot alien cockroaches with hyperactive libidos, etc. The result is that the credibility of the entire UFO research community is debased. Little wonder that the press treats the subject as a joke. That's what the CI people work so hard to accomplish. The "aliens are eating us" crowd is the answer to the CI prayers. This brings us to the question of whether the government is justified in withholding certain information from the public based in its psychological impact alone. The first NSC meeting was held in September, 1947. One of the main topics is rumored to have been the retrieval of a crashed alien aircraft at Roswell. We might know if this rumor is true, but the minutes of that meeting have been removed by the CIA from the National Archives. Interestingly, they were removed in February, 1979. This is when intelligence operatives discovered that a book telling the truth about the Roswell crash was about to be published. It then became necessary to clean up the "paper trail," among other CI moves to protect the Roswell secret. The NSC had to consider the Roswell UFO crash only eight years after the Orson Welles "War of the Worlds" broadcast, in which panic ensued when the public thought Martians were invading. Little wonder that President Truman kept mum. Was this a sound policy? I believe it was in 1947, and on through to today. At least in the sense that the public was not ready for the stunning revelation of aliens in our midst. But the public will never be ready! Nor is there any way to prepare the public. Therefore, further concealment is futile, as well as morally unjustifiable. In terms of national security, when a government is forced to treat its own populace as an enemy, then that government is already defeated and has lost its right to exist. Abductees are the only directly affected portion of the population. Granted, it is a very tiny fraction. But have we decided to write them off, to list them as an acceptable loss in this shadowy but nevertheless very real War of the Worlds? In closing, I wish to express my sympathy for those in government who are faced with these terrible decisions. I know you desire to do the right thing. To my colleagues in ufology, my advice is: be very careful what you ask for, because sometimes your wishes are granted. If your fervent wishes are granted, our whole civilization will suddenly have a new, revolutionary set of ideas about who and what we are. Can you take responsibility for the cataclysm? Although I have used the term "threat" in this discussion, it should be obvious that if the aliens are truly hostile, we would have learned that the very, very hard way long ago. That there are great changes in store for mankind is certain. How we as a people handle those changes will determine the level of loss to our social and spiritual realities. There is much to lose but equally as much to gain. Or, as the alien may have said, "Lose a planet, gain a galaxy." Think about it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Dec 96 07:24:37 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:04:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance To Rebecca: <<Although Jeffrey's article was not footnoted much to the chagrin of Michael Hesemann, whom you congratulated on his article in Nexus,>> I did?? Strange, I don't remember congratulating him on his article in Nexus.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: Genesis and Provenance From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:06:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:04:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Genesis and Provenance Regarding... >Date: 21 Dec 96 14:18:42 EST >From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Genesis and Provenance Theresa Carlson wrote: <Yes, I've seen transcripts of interviews with Tony Amato at Kodak.> > In the interview does Tony Amato say that they are willing to do the tests on only one or two frames or give any other requirements on the amount?< Theresa, Yes, the following extract from a response to Bob Shell might help clarify this issue for anyone who's interested: Bob, In your statement, which Philip Mantle has now circulated, you suggest that Kodak have not "acted in good faith". Are you sure this is really supported by the evidence? During September 1995, Tony Amato was asked if he could clarify what requirements Kodak had specified for testing any film. He replied: "We don't have a requirement. All we need is a few inches of film. Mr. Shell has three frames of the film of the empty room. We can authenticate those frames, but only those frames. It was Mr. Shell that has suggested to provide an entire roll therefore the roll would be authenticated". He also commented: "Well, we haven't got any film yet to take a look at. We have been told that we will have some film and we have been waiting months now. ...Mr Shell has left me a message saying that he does have three frames to send me. But I have not seen them. ...Yes. We have to do a destruct test. But we only need two inches of film to do that. ...My position now is: we set up the test once we have the film in hand. I can't go spending peoples time on a wish". In the January 1996, Skeptics UFO Newsletter (SUN), we heard that: When we informed Blamphin* that Shell had earlier told SUN that a Kodak movie film specialist in Rochester, named Tony Amato, had agreed to test the Santilli film without charge if Shell would provide a two-inch long sample from the autopsy film [SUN #35/Sept. 1995], Blamphin said he would talk to Amato to confirm such an offer. Several days later, Blamphin confirmed Amato's offer. Shell told SUN during our Sept. 7 interview that Santilli had agreed to provide the two-inch strip of autopsy film. But when SUN next talked with Shell, on Oct. 6, he reported that Santilli's financial partner, a German named Volker Spielberg -- who, reportedly, had stored all of the original autopsy film in a Swiss vault -- had flatly refused to provide the two-inch strip that Kodak needed. Shell explained that because Spielberg had put up the money to acquire the film, he "owned it" [SUN #36, Nov. 1995]. *A spokesperson for Kodak's public affairs office. The problem at this point appears to have been the refusal, or inability, to provide a corroborative film sample. No fault of Kodak's. During October 1995, you explained the current position on the sample frames you had: Kodak has refused to do anything with this film. They want to see a strip at least 50 frames in length so they can do some sprocket spacing measurements. Spacing of sprocket holes was changed around 1960 when new equipment was installed, and Kodak can easily determine whether the film was made before or after this equipment change if given a long enough strip. Kodak also needs to see a strip which is intact from edge to edge, since this is an important measurement to determine film shrinkage. Film shrinks as it ages. Kodak also wants to perform chemical tests on a piece of film which can be firmly established to be from the same film on which the alien appears. There is no hard evidence that the film Bob Kiviat and I have is from this, only strong circumstantial evidence. That's not good enough. [End] Would you agree there was no dispute with Kodak's intentions at this point? In your latest statement you comment: "I spent a lot of time working with Ray and got Volker to agree to supply such a strip for them. At this point they said they needed 16 feet, at which point I got disgusted with them and gave up on them". It was my understanding that the only reference to "16 feet of film" was by Peter Milson, at Hemel Hempstead and had no bearing on Tony Amato or your arrangements with him. That aside, the statement that Ray/Volker had actually agreed to supply a strip of at least 50 frames in length, is central to your claim that Kodak's requirements had been met. However, on 8 December 1995, you mentioned that, "I have forwarded a detailed description of Kodak's requirements to Volker Spielberg via. Merlin, and have received a response that he is not willing to provide what they are asking at this time. He has indicated that he may soon be willing to provide "about half" of the 50 frame strip with the creature on it that Kodak wants". So, at this point, there was in fact a refusal to supply the 50 frame strip, and at best, you might some day have access to about half of what Kodak apparently now required. Then again, you might not. But the problems still all lie with the absence of any corroborative film. When were you subsequently told that the full 50 frame strip was definitely to be made available? Or was this perhaps just another indication from Ray that some day things might change. I'm trying to square this with Ray's comments from the 24 March 1996 conference, that there was no way Kodak were going to be asked to test any film in the first place. I'm also trying to square it with Ray's comments to Philip Mantle, at the end of 1995: Q: Why hasn't a segment of film showing the 'creature' on it been released for analysis. A: Plenty of film has been released with a variety of images including images of the autopsy room. Giving away film with the creature would be a last resort as the frames are far too valuable. I think it is also unnecessary as it is part of the same material already released. [End] Doesn't this confirm that there was in fact never any intention, or perhaps the ability, to provide a meaningful film sample to you? >>The absence of any corroborative film is hardly your fault. But at what point was the decision taken not to involve Kodak in any theoretical testing - it must have been sometime before the 24 March conference? Was this Ray's decision, your recommendation, or a mutual agreement?<< >None of the above. It was a statement supposedly made by Ray which I knew nothing about until after the fact.< The statement was made by Ray during the CompuServe conference and I believe there's still a transcript in the library. Again, if you didn't know it had been decided that Kodak would specifically be precluded from any potential testing, it does all suggest that Ray was telling you personally what he maybe thought you wanted to hear, but he knew this would never materialise. As you acknowledge, Ray is capable of doing so, although not necessarily intending to be deceitful. On the question of film verification, Ray mentioned something puzzling during that conference: Ray Santilli: Yes there are further plans with regard to the verification of the film and this will hopefully be done at the time of the cameramans interview. Q: Can you give us more details about the verification of the film you plan to do. Ray Santilli: Sorry I cannot right now apart from saying that the matter is in hand and with an independent. It did perhaps indicate a change of attitude, but I wonder.... Could this simply have been a reference to the independent testing of Philip Mantle's non-corroborative sample, which Professor Malanga was to undertake? We haven't heard of any other candidates since March of this year and Professor Malanga's testing does seem to have taken place around the same time as the "interview". It seems a reasonable assumption that's what it referred to and basically, there endeth the film "testing". [End] In essence, I don't believe the evidence supports Bob's premise that Kodak have placed obstacles in his way. I do believe it's apparent that there was never any intention, or the ability, to provide a meaningful film sample to Bob Shell and that was always the only obstacle. I'll copy this mail to Philip Mantle and perhaps Philip can comment on the possibility that the independent verification mentioned by Ray Santilli, was the work to be undertaken by Professor Malanga. James. Internet; pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: Backlash From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 96 11:23:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:05:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Backlash >> Well, well... you've joined 'The Club!' :) Welcome! >> Your initiation assignment is to invent the >>'Etch-A-Skeptic' Cathy said; > Terrific! But, do I have to 'colour' her (or him) >in only black and white? What about all of the other >colours of the rainbow? Where's all the blue people? New Orleans. >If you are referring to your mobius and comparing it >to the universe, then add sixteen other mobiuses, one for >each dimension, and then a few others that are beyond random >chance factors. No more needed. You see, the 3d Mobius transcends all all dimensions in infinity. How could you have missed this? The one thing that stands out is that the 3d Mobius exists in both Euclidian and non-Euclidian space. It is both material and non material in that aspect. I challenge anyone on the face of the Earth or from anywhere in the universe to refute my statments above. It cannot be done. ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com/UFO http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://www.sat.net/~pparri/SCRAPS http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/comet
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: Carl Sagan From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:40:25 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:06:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan > From: "Clarke Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:18:53 -0700 > ---------- > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > > Date: Sunday, December 22, 1996 9:42 AM > > > From: KRandle993@aol.com > > Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:52:03 -0500 > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > > > Carl Sagan's death ends a career which, while otherwise superior in > > its achievements, was sullied by his persistence in his latter years in > > debunking and ridiculing the abundant evidence for extraterrestrial life > > and its visitation to Earth. > > > It is not credible to suppose that Dr. Sagan did not know better. It > > is a pity that he allowed himself to be used by the UFO Cover-Up. > > > At least now he knows better. > > [...snip...] > > > I would think that an ex-priest would have something kinder to say. I'm just > > completing a book about Project Blue Book and plan to include these words: > > > To Carl Sagan: Who prevented the destruction of the Project Blue Book files > > at great personal cost. Thanks, Dr. Sagan. > > > 1934 - 1996 > > > KRandle > > Bravo Kevin! [snip] > Kindest Regards, > > Clarke Hathaway > SouthWestern Artist and UFO 'buff'. I think as Ed Stewart made clear, there is not necessarily a cause and effect in connection with Sagan's attempt to keep the Blue Book files from being destroyed, and the Air Force transfering the files to Maxwell AFB. However, that he made the effort, did not find favor with some. Menzel wrote to Condon that he recommended that the files be closed for 5 years and then made available. In reading some of the letters that Thronton Page received in protest of the AAAS presentation it is obvious that some scientists and others like Phil Klass had rather strong feelings about whether it should occur and what the program should be. Page responded that Science would not crumble if the ufo question were considered by the AAAS. He refused to engage in any long arguments with anyone, and just let them know he and Sagan were going to do this(period). Sagan's correspondence on the matter might be interesting although I suspect he let Page carry the ball on most of the arrangements. A number of scientists wrote to Condon about the ufo problem while the Colorado project was active. Some of Condon's correspondence indicates that these scientists did so at their professional peril. Although there is no indication, he actually took action against anyone, with the exception of James McDonald and Sagan's admission to the Cosmos Club and possibly one other, but just a few words in casual conversation is sometimes enough to cause doubt about someone's professional reputation. (Condon and Menzel were both more forgiving of Hynek.) Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Mon, 23 Dec 96 13:50:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:07:24 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 For Kevin re my income. I spent full time on Ufology 1971-l980 or so. I have done a great deal of consulting work since then. I have combined them both. You made the crack about a 25 year old title of nuclear physicist without having any facts at hand. I am working on MJ-12. Perhaps you ought to try instead of continuing your proclamations and psychic readings without evidence. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Holiday Thoughts From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Mon, 23 Dec 96 10:32:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:08:57 -0500 Subject: Holiday Thoughts As the Winter Solstice passes, the Earth turns and begins its cyclical journey gain. On November 9th, the Star Vision Conference proclaimed the beginning of a transition from the failed individualistic, materialistic and polluted Fourth World society towards a challenged, purified, spiritually-attuned and cooperative Fifth World society. 1997 is the year of public acknowledgment of UFO/ET reality and the beginning of formal and eventually public extraterrestrial landings. These emissaries come in peace, and offer help to help ourselves. May the many good-hearted people rise with grace to the opportunities of this New Year. Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Mon, 23 Dec 96 13:54:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:08:12 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Kevin: I will do my thing. You do yours. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Skywatch: Bogota From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:39:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:09:48 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: Bogota ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: 23 DEC 96 13:28:00 LCL From: CASTAGNI@procergs.com.br To: skywatch@wic.net Subject: BOGOTA NTC/TV-Colombia, South America, showed to all country, images of UFOs filmed for a soldier of Air Force, Juan Carlos Morales, l7Th december. Merry Christmas to you !!! ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: Carl Sagan From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:33:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:10:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan > From: rich.boylan@24stex.com > Organization: 24th Street Exchange > Date: Sun, 22 Dec 96 20:11:50 -0800 > Subject: UFO UPDATE: RE: CARL SA > To: updates@globalserve.net > Yes, it is me Julie, instead of Clark. I have some things to say. Besides Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone. :-) > USAF Captain Kevin Randle, (ret.) wrote: > > > I would think that an ex-priest would have something kinder to say. > > I'm just > > completing a book about Project Blue Book and plan to include these > > words: > > > To Carl Sagan: Who prevented the destruction of the Project Blue > > Book files > > Kevin: > > I have personally witnesses and experienced the great mental and > emotional distress and trauma brought on hundreds of experiencers of very close > UFO and extraterrestrial encounters by the snide, dismissive debunking of same > by such "authorities" as Carl Sagan. By his complicity in the UFO Cover-Up, he ^^^ KEY WORD here "as".... The trauma spoken of is brought on by violations of personal boundaries by -so-called- highly evolved beings. The above statement has no basis in fact or findings from any studies or research done. The above statement is a dysfunctional view reality. The above statement is like saying, "A stranger came into your bedroom took you away, tied you up and raped you because he does not live by the same rules you do. If anyone tells you different and that there is something wrong with this stranger doing these things, your trauma and confusion is their fault not the strangers. So you are a victim of societies view of what has happened to you and your feelings of fear and violation are illusion. These beings are really very highly evolved because they have better toys than us hu-man." Sorry no cigar, technology does NOT = Spirituality. Never has never will, it is artificial and keeps us away from our Soul Work as Carl Jung called it. Also the concept of someone coming to save us and clean up OUR mess is an old one. Check out history and you will find many. The Jews are a good example. It stems from not wanting to take responsibility for one's actions. Jesus did not fit the mold so he was killed for political reasons. The mythology surrounding the events of the life of Jesus are as old as civilization as well. Read Joseph Campbell. > has immeasurably added to the unnecessary suffering of many tens of thousands > of experiencers who have had to try to sift between what their own senses were > telling them was real, versus Carl Sagan's bland assurances that there is "no > evidence" of extraterrestrial visitation to Earth. He is correct here there is NO scientific evidence of ET visitations. The man was a great scientist and human being who had the guts to stand up for what he believed. He shifted his concern from "what is out there" to seeing that this planet is still a place where life can exist. I see no problem with this and I find it hard to believe any -sane- responsible adult can either. Any -sane- properly trained Psychologist would never blame shift either. A -sane- Psychologist would work with his clients so -the client- learns ways of dealing with boundary issues. A -sane- Psychologist would NEVER define the clients reality for them. These constant vindictive attacks on anyone who does not follow the NEW AGE belief system to the letter is getting old as mold and twice as smelly. Robert Morning Star has already put to rest the hype about the -made up by him- Blue Start Kachina. This was just one small example of the untruths being spread at the -so-called- UFO conferences (which are nothing more than New Age conferences). > Those who have participated in the UFO Cover-Up will have to answer for > all the needless suffering they have caused. That day of reckoning is coming. Apparently you have not a clue as to how karma and Dharma work. Those who are selling -snake oil- at New Age/UFO conferences are going to have to answer to the people who pay the money to get in when none of these aliens show to lift them off the planet or save their butts. There is a major difference between a -real- scientist and a -snake oil- salesman. The scientist looks for evidence to verify theories. The -snake oil- salesman on the other hand wants the credibility of the scientist so he debunks and twists everything the scientist says. Julianne Presson, CHT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Philip Mantle Needs Help From: Owen Morgan <ddraig@kuntrynet.com> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:15:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:11:35 -0500 Subject: Philip Mantle Needs Help If you try http://www.four11.com I think you can enter names and findout if they have e-mail or not. Owen Morgan ddraig@kuntrynet.com ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Philip Mantle Needs Help > Date: Sunday, December 22, 1996 4:49 PM > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > Subject: WANTED > Date: Sun, 22 Dec 96 05:10:12 GMT > > TO ALL LISTS. > > Dear Colleagues, > > I am still in search of a number of individuals whom I hope you might > help me to locate. I am looking for either a mailing address, phone > number or e-mail address of any or all of the following: > > Dewey Fournet. > Al Chop. > Robert White. > Allen Hendry. > > Former Project Blue Book: > > Capt. Robert R. Sneider. > Lt. Jerry Cummings. > Lt Robert M. Olsson. > Capt. Charles H. Hardin. > Capt. George T. Gregory. > Maj Robert J. Friend. > Maj. Robert F. Spence. > Lt Col. Lawrence J. Tacker. > Maj Carl R. Hart. > > Any assistance in locating any of the above would be greatly > appreciated and I would respectfully like to ask you to forward this > on to anyone you think might be of help. > > > Yours Sincerely, > > > Philip Mantle. > > 1 Woodhall Drive, Batley, West Yorkshire, England, WF17 7SW. > tele/Fax: 01924 444049. E-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net > Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-932-0031 > > An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of > UFO Related Phenomena >
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Newsweek Article on Paranoia From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 01:09:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:12:26 -0500 Subject: Newsweek Article on Paranoia >From Newsweek: 2/6/97 Growing National Paranoia Conspiracy Mania Aliens killed JFK. The CIA started the crack epidemic. Kurt Cobain was murdered. Who comes up with this stuff? And why do so many people believe it? by Rick Marin and T. Trent Gegax Inside a beat-up white trailer home in the Nevada desert, Glenn Campbell sits leashed to his desk by a telephone headset. Faxes grind and modems screech while Campbell (no, not that Glen Campbell) runs the one-man government-watchdog station he calls the Area 51 Research Center. A giant black satellite dish out back points ominously skyward. The front yard is decorated with the tail of a crashed F-4 jet. Animal bones scattered in a macabre rock-garden formation separate the trailer from the dirt frontage road along Nevada State Route 375--a.k.a. The Extraterrestrial Highway. A sonic boom from the local air force base cleaves the heavens as Campbell hangs up with a deep military source. "We found a connection between Ron Brown's plane crash and Area 51!" he announces. "It's all linked together!" He's kidding--sort of. Campbell is a conspiracy theorist, not a conspiracy nut. A retired Boston software executive, he cashed out a couple of years ago at the age of 33 and relocated to the sun-baked hamlet of Rachel, Nev., to become the leading authority on Area 51. You know: the "secret" section of an air base that houses alien spacecraft. This is ground zero for UFOlogists convinced that the world has been controlled by aliens ever since the first flying saucer fell to Earth in 1947. "There is alien contact with the military," Campbell says, though, he admits, "I don't have proof other than what I hear from my sources at Area 51." Coincidentally, those sources commute from their homes in Vegas to the air base in a T-43 transport plane just like the one that carried Secretary Brown to his death. Conspiracy paranoia is surrounding us. A paranoid person might even say it's closing in, because these wacky theories aren't just spreading in the usual cheesy newsletters dense with type and craziness. Fomented on the Internet, mass-marketed by Hollywood ("The X-Files," "Independence Day"), conspiracism has become a kind of para-religion. Its vast flock ranges from casual believers to zealots who think O. J. Simpson was set up by the Japanese mafia and that Prince Charles is a puppet of the new world order, instructed by a computer chip planted in his royal buttocks. Wait until Pierre Salinger starts looking into that one. This great nation has always had its share of conspiracy freaks. Hell, the country was founded by Freemasons, the ultimate secret society. (Who do you think put that weird eyeball-and-pyramid symbol on the dollar bill?) But the ranks of the darkly deluded may be growing. A recent survey in George magazine indicated that three quarters of Americans believe that "the Government is involved in conspiracy." Depending on your level of venality, that statistic can be read as either mass psychosis or a marketing opportunity. This year, America Online started a "channel" called ParaScope, to attract devotees of the paranormal and the paranoid. Mel Gibson's next movie is called, simply, "Conspiracy Theory." He'll play a cabdriver who finds himself in trouble when one of his harebrained theories turns out to be true. Surprisingly, Oliver Stone is not directing. "There certainly seems to be a resurgence in sympathy toward conspiracy theory and an increasing strain of paranoia," says Kendrick Frazier, editor of The Skeptical Inquirer, a monthly devoted to debunking wacko theories. Clearly, something is heating up in the more tropical climes of the American psyche. So, herewith, a skeptical inquiry of our own. Kurt Cobain's 'Suicide.' The shotgun blast that killed the Nirvana front man and Gen X martyr was not self-inflicted, this theory goes. Cobain's widow, Courtney Love, is implicated, according to the book "Love & Death: The Story of Kurt & Courtney," by Montreal journalists Ian Halpern and Max Wallace. Private investigator Tom Grant, originally hired by Love to look into her husband's disappearance, is working hard to keep Cobain's suicide as mysterious as White House aide Vince Foster's. "The picture that was painted of this thing as a suicide was totally false," Grant says. Contrary to press reports, he claims (and says police records back him up) Cobain did not place his driver's license on top of his wallet on the floor next to him to help authorities identify the body. In fact, Grant says, a cop put the license out for the crime-scene photographer. "That information led people to think it was a suicide," Grant says. "But it was not true." More "proof." In addition to the suicide note at the scene, Grant says, Cobain left Love a Dear John letter: "We'll learn in the end that that note explains exactly what he was doing. He was retiring, leaving the music business, leaving his wife. That was a retirement note to his fans, not a suicide note." The motive? Grant's got that figured out, too. "She was after his fan base. The motivation is greed and career"--the same motivation Grant has been criticized for by the Courtney camp. Love dismisses the charges. And Seattle police spokesman Sean O'Donnell says, "I've had to respond to so many theories and conspiracy theories since the event occurred, and I've refuted them consistently. There's just no information that would indicate this is anything other than a suicide." Hemp Power Suppressed. Another Gen X favorite, and stoner perennial, since hemp (another name for cannabis) can be smoked as pot or turned into a fiber. In June actor Woody Harrelson was arrested when he planted four nonhallucinogenic, industrial hemp seeds in a Kentucky field. Such a Thoreau-like act of civil disobedience would have been unnecessary in 1938, when a Popular Mechanics cover story headlined hemp as the new billion-dollar crop. But "something went wrong between 1937 and 1942," says Allen St. Pierre, deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). "I can't tell you that I've been able to find a conspiracy. But there was such a moneyed interest involved, it makes you wonder." NORML claims to have documents showing that as part of the war effort the government set up hemp farms in Kentucky, Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio. St. Pierre says hemp supplied superstrong twine for parachute cord and oil for war vehicles. "The U.S. forces were one big mobile hemp unit," St. Pierre says. During World War II, a "Hemp for Victory" newsreel featured fresh-faced 4-H kids sewing hemp seeds. It also made Levi's denim famously sturdy. What happened? St. Pierre blames Harry J. Anslinger, the nation's first drug czar, who he says needed a fresh target once Prohibition failed. "They made pot illegal for their own purposes," St. Pierre says, citing an Anslinger-Du Pont-Hearst triumvirate as the culprit. The Du Pont family feared cannabis could supplant many of their petrochemicals, and William Randolph Hearst needed a new moral high horse for his newspapers. Nonsense, says Bob Barker (no, not that Bob Barker) of the American Fiber Manufacturers Association. He says hemp doesn't even compete with textile and petroleum products: "It's kind of a nice, back-to-nature sort of thing to believe." Especially if you're baked. The Klan in the 'Hood. The black community is a hotbed of this kind of suspicion and mistrust, some justified, some fantastical. In October, Rep. Maxine Waters convened a town meeting in South-Central Los Angeles between her constituents and CIA Director John Deutch. A heated debate ensued over reports speculating that the CIA had spread the crack epidemic by backing Nicaraguan drug dealers whose profits went to the contras. "Black-oriented talk-radio shows are rife with conspiracy stuff," says Dr. Jewelle Taylor Gibbs, a University of California, Berkeley, professor who has written extensively on race issues. At WVON in Chicago it's conventional wisdom among listeners that AIDS is a plot to wipe out African-Americans. Keisha Chavers, an executive producer at the station, says, "The common refrain is 'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you'." Such is the conspiracist's reflex mentality. It's often a reaction against authority among groups that feel they've been politically marginalized, socially isolated or economically oppressed. Gibbs agrees: "Invariably, blacks start asking if the government is against us. Once these urban myths take hold, you can't do much to disprove them." Like the myth that the Snapple Iced Tea label depicts a slave galley, reflecting the company's solidarity with the KKK. The picture in question is actually of the Boston Tea Party. The New World Order. When Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and right-wing political extremist Lyndon LaRouche meet, they can agree on one thing: the malign, totalitarian power of the NWO and its executive arm, the Trilateral Commission. When President George Bush (a member of Yale's secret society Skull & Bones) proclaimed a new world order, he didn't tell us that "black helicopters" would be patrolling the night skies, monitoring our every move. Or that the government keeps a genetic record of every citizen in secret "DNA banks" (a hot topic in AOL's ParaScope chat rooms). Oklahoma City bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh reportedly claimed that the U.S. Army (the military arm of the NWO) had implanted a computer chip in his buttock to control him. He didn't say whether he and the Prince of Wales had experienced any chip-to-chip contact. These bizarre fantasies would seem safely ridiculous if they didn't occasionally turn out to be true. "My paranoia and mistrust of authority came of age during Watergate," says Chris Carter, creator of "The X-Files," TV's weekly conspiracy-geek bible. On "The X-Files," everything from who killed JFK to why the Buffalo Bills lose so many Super Bowls is traceable to a single master plan. "It helps when you pick up the paper every day and see how the government has lied to us," Carter adds, ticking off recent revelations about the cover-ups surrounding gulf war syndrome and President Clinton's apology for radiation experiments conducted on unwitting Americans as late as 1974. In "Journey Into Madness: The True Story of Secret CIA Mind Control and Medical Abuse" (Bantam, 1990) British journalist Gordon Thomas meticulously documents the brutal brainwashing of soldiers in the Korean War. Militia extremists who had been warning of a new world order for years felt vindicated when their president actually announced one. See! They told you so. As Glenn Campbell likes to tell people out at his trailer in the middle of nowhere, it's all linked together. He just can't quite prove it. Yet. 1/07/97 Lifestyle/Conspiracy Mania Feeds Our Growing National Paranoia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 When Rumors make the News From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 01:11:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:13:22 -0500 Subject: When Rumors make the News >From Newseek 1/ 6/97 When Rumors Make the News Public-service warning: The Internet is not a news service. Read what's there with care, and be your own editor. by Richard Turner He wears a trench coat. He worked for Kennedy. His image, with the Eiffel Tower in the background and the ABC logo in the corner, exudes a sense of legitimacy. This is the familiar medium, the thing we're supposed to trust. So when former ABC news correspondent Pierre Salinger breathlessly announced last month that he had evidence that TWA Flight 800 was felled by a friendly-fire U.S. missile, the story had enough credibility to resurface in the "mainstream" press, where it had briefly appeared two months before. For most people, this episode played out as embarrassing, a little bit sad, a little bit Brinkley-esque. But inhabitants of cyberspace were less compassionate. To them, this was yet another sign of establishment cluelessness about the Internet. They witheringly pointed out that the same document Salinger referred to had been on the World Wide Web, posted for all to see, for months. "Well, Pierre, if you'd get a little Net-savvy, you'd figure it out," sniffed one Web site, conspire.com, which concluded: "Learn to surf, Dude." There they go again, the denizens of the "old" media and the Netizens of the new. Their mutual distrust colors a debate which really ought not to be so supercharged. Mainstream-media watchdogs view the loopy Salinger story as yet another sign that the Net is a giant, churning rumor pit, because the friendly-fire information resided there. The technophiles think they're under attack by a punditocracy afraid to give up control. And so there was similar fretting from both sides when a slightly overreaching story in the San Jose Mercury News--which appeared to say that CIA-sanctioned cocaine sales launched the crack epidemic--took on momentum, fed by the Net. The tale became holy writ to many, especially in the black community. The Mercury was blasted for how its Web version of the story helped spread and distort it. We don't mind mentioning these things, or the alien autopsies, or the United Nations plot with the black helicopters. But there are other examples of "news" floating around the Internet that we won't articulate, like the famous Republican politician said to have been involved in a homosexuality scandal some years back. Why won't we put it in the magazine? Well, short of actually investigating it, we'll rely on the San Francisco Chronicle, which ran a story saying there's no evidence that it's true. It's part of the "legitimate" press, and we fancy that we are, too. This is very civic-minded of us, and, of course, very pompous. Who are we to decide? Media mandarins, determining from on high what people can and can't know. This is the view of the apostles of cyber-nirvana. To them, the Net is a means for regular people to assert their rights against the old order of top-down windbags. All of this obscures the obvious fact that the Net is a means of communication, not a news service. Everybody who's spent five minutes there knows it's full of self-indulgent rantings, junior-high-school feuding--and porno. Just because something's on the Net doesn't give it gravitas. The TWA friendly-fire story, before it hit the Internet, actually showed up on CBS's local TV station in New York just after the crash. But CBS network news didn't pick up on it, and this is the point: with so much information out there today, people have to know whom to trust. For better or worse, this trust still resides in some TV news organizations and a handful of newspapers and magazines--many of them controlled by family members willing to tolerate flattish stock prices in return for some high-minded and corny ideal that their stories should try to tell the truth. They set the agenda for most other news. And readers by now know when they browse the newsstand that there's a difference between The New York Times and Weekly World News. For those who aren't waving a banner for one side or the other--who believe that the Net is important but doubt its utopian qualities--the debate about news pollution on the Net is just another reminder that citizens have to pick through their news as carefully as cats. "You can't scroll through the Net uncritically," says high-tech attorney Michael Godwin. "You have to be your own editor. That's called being an adult in an information society." And that still means listening to guys in trench coats, even if they sometimes get it wrong. 1/07/97 Society/When Rumors Make the News
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Richard Hoagland From: SGBConsult@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 16:14:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 09:56:26 -0500 Subject: Richard Hoagland -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List In a crossposted message dated 96-12-24 01:04:38 EST, Ronan wote: > Richard Hoagland, for those of you haven't heard him speak, can go > on and on, and talk about nothing. This is why a five hour forum, > like the Art_Bell radio show, is an excellent opportunity for him to > talk about nothing. I would doubt there is anyone on the planet who would argue that Dick Hoagland isn't capable of going on and on. However, the listener's dilemma is not falling into the "nothing", but knowing enough to keep up. Hoagland is possibly the most brilliant and most original thinker plowing the UFOlogical terrain. Oscar Wilde once mentioned that as a young boy he went for the first time to a not insubstantial library where he was enthralled to see the vast shelves of books. He committed immediately to himself that he would read them all. He didn't, of course, but one has to admire the thought. Hoagland wants to know it all. Most would agree that in the postparadigm world (one in which extraterrestrial presence is a given), significant resources will be devoted to reexamining all of cultural and scientific history. Each piece of new information will be collated with that history - producing a new understanding of past events. Dick Hoagland is not a patient man. He is trying to figure it out in advance. Imagine a Paleolithic man coming upon a pristine Mecedes 450SL which happened to have dropped through a worm hole. Paleoman could simply take notice and wait for his ancestors to figure it out. On the other hand, why wait. Paleoman tries to understand the Mercedes by running his hands over it, looking through the windows and measuring the thing to death. You have to admire the effort. Hoagland is a synthesizing thinker. He can speak on a dozen disciplines in the same exchange and not break stride. Because he knows so much about so many fields, he is trying to connect the dots -- all the dots. It is difficult to follow, at times maddening, and at times totally out in left field. But left field is still in the park, and when someone really pushes the envelope (with hard, not soft thinking), they sometimes take the rest of us along with them to breakthrough understanding. Steve Bassett SGBConsult P.S. I have to confess to being a "Bellhead". I have no trouble saying, with the caveat that at least once a week the show goes completely over the falls, that Bell's show is the most provocative, interesting and daring exposition in media today. I predict it will destroy the circadian rhythms of millions. -> Send "subscribe iufo " to majordomo@world.std.com -> Posted by: SGBConsult@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:50:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 09:55:34 -0500 Subject: STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' Errol sent: ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' > Date: Tuesday, December 24, 1996 10:15 AM > > Dick Hoagland seems to have found many > instances of 'interesting occurances' at > 19.5 degrees on various planetary and > orbiting bodies. Ghiza, the 'Chinese > Pyramid', the 'Mars Face', the 'Glass > Shard', etc. [..snip..] > Richard C. Hoagland on 'The Art Bell Show', > Friday night/Saturday morning 20th December, 1996. > on STS 48 Shuttle (Discovery) Cargo Bay camera > footage: [..snip..] > And, on this video, as the shuttle came up on _19.5_ > _degrees_ over Australia, there were this set of Hi Errol: First: Julie and my very best wishes to you and yours this holiday season! We hope that you are enjoying a happy one! I want you to know that we are both deeply appreciative of the wonderful job that you have been doing. Second: Glad to see that the 'kinks' in the system have been straightened out. It is great to be getting news from this quarter once again. :-) Third: Forgive my ignorance, but is this figure of 19.5 degrees one that Hoagland arbitrarily throws out in each instance, or is this an actual fact? If fact it is but one more coincidence to throw on the pile. I don't know about you, but my reality doesn't contain coincidences. :-) Kindest Regards, Clark Hathaway _________________________________ Clark, I don't recall anyone disputing Dick Hoagland's '19.5' observations. The geographic positions of the subjects that interest him are, apparently, indisputable and as such are part of what made me sit up and take notice. Thank you for your kind words and wishes, ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 'The Twelve Days of Abduction' <G> From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:44:12 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 09:54:50 -0500 Subject: 'The Twelve Days of Abduction' <G> > Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 01:03:22 -0500 (EST) > From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> > Subject: Twelve Days (Well . . . ) > > From: Ann Onymous > > Note from the author: Heavy stuff on the NET these days! For a change of > pace, I dashed off the following. Sing to the tune of The Twelve Days of > Christmas. I don't mind if you post it, but sign me Ann Onymous. > > THE TWELVE DAYS OF ABDUCTION > > On the first day of abduction my ET gave to me...An implant behind the > right knee. Good one! I can't wait for more amusing little ditties about wife abuse, third world torture, and child molestation . . . How about it, Pat? Have I just completely lost my sense of humor, or is the insensitivity of this parody so thick you could cut it with a knife? Lehmberg@snowhill.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: Carl Sagan From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 21:56:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 09:57:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:51:11 -0500 >From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> >Organization: Kentucky/MUFON >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Sagan & Dr. Boylan >Regarding Carl Sagan and Dr. Boylan: >While one should never speak ill of the dead, it would be disingenuous, >indeed, for us all to start hurling bouquets now instead of brickbats. >Lest we forget...for all the good Sagan may have done regarding Blue >Book, he also made a mockery of folks like me; someone who encountered a >UFO on a dark and lonely road through no fault of my own. And while I >was struggling mightily to come to terms with the experience, he was >doing everything in his considerable power to make me look like a fool, >at best, and a liar, at worst. So forgive me, if, in the midst of all >these post-mortems, I breathe a weary sigh of relief that the skeptics' >numbers are dwindling. > Jerry Washington SD > KENTUCKY/MUFON Hi Jerry. I agree with you. While I will not attack "Carl Sagan, The Man," I will gratefully acknowledge my lack of regret that "Carl Sagan, the Astronomer and Debunker" is gone. Some will reply that you cannot separate the TWO. I argue differently. For his and our sake, as a species, it is hoped that we will survive because, someone was able to separate the "chaff" from the "wheat." The "chaff" being our outer appearances, i.e., Carl Sagan the Astronomer. The "Wheat" on the other hand being "Carl Sagan" the Man. That part of him grew and advanced as all others, but that was the man behind the mask. Unfortunately, it is "The Mask" that most of us knew. We judge him by that which is seen and heard. To the "Mask" I say "good riddance." I'm sorry, but I cannot be a hypocrite about it. I will not show two different faces to my peers. That is the problem today. We want to say what will not offend, even though we know it is not so. How much "harm and suffering" has this ego called "Sagan the Astronomer" caused among those unfortunate individuals who happen to be, like you, in the wrong place at the right time? He has not helped solve the problem, but instead, added to it. He cannot now change what has gone before him. His mistakes<?> are recorded for all time in history, and there is no way for him to make amends for them. I pray that those who have suffered the most from his "attitude" will forgive the most. Ignorance and desire for personal advancement and recognition cause many of us to chose a path which can and often does lead us into the darkness of the abyss, rather than into the light of the COSMOS. In my opinion, this is what happened to Dr. Carl Sagan, "the Astronomer." I can not profess to say what "Carl Sagan, the Man" felt. I am and was not familiar with that aspect of his personality. Take care Jerry. May the Love of this Season bridge the abyss which separates us from the Sun/Son of Knowledge and Light. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Project 1947 - Re: 5602d AISS UFOB LOG From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:56:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 09:58:58 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: 5602d AISS UFOB LOG Sorry about this posting. It had more than the usual amount of proof reading errors and was incomplete. Thought it was in saved file to work on later, but I put it in the outbox by mistake. Here is the corrected copy. A locally mimeographed form used by the 4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron (AISS) to summarize their UFO investigations is posted below. Note this report is Captain Ryan's American Airlines sighting. --- 4602D AISS UFOB LOG REPORT NUMBER DATE/TIME OF SIGHTING RECD AISOP AISS-UFOB-97-56 09/0315Z Apr 56 10 Apr 56 LOCATION OF SIGHTING LOGGED BY A/V between Schenectady and Oswego, New York S/SGT DeRudder MEANS RECD ACTION TAKEN TT Msg No Investigation authorized INVES UNIT DATE INVES ASSIGNED ASSIGNING OFFICER N/A N/A N/A DATE IR RECD HQ DATE IR APPROVED DATE IR TO ATIC N/A N/A N/A DATE FORM 5 10 Apr 56 COMMENTS Due to later sightings and the description of this sighting is [sic] is the opinion of this headquarters that this sighting was probably generated by the planet Venus. CONCLUSIONS PROBABLY ASTRONOMICAL AISOP FORM 7 (2 APR 55) * * * * AISOP FORM 5: There appear to be no samples of this form in the 4602d AISS files. AISOP is the office system for 4602d AISS section dealing with ufos. A/V = Air/Visual sighting. TT = Teletype IR = Intelligence Report. So no intelligence report on this sighting was sent to ATIC by the 4602d AISS, and no investigation was made. The evaluation was made from the teletype message sent by the 655th Aircraft Control and Warning Squadron at Watertown. No mention is made of interceptor aircraft flying along side of CPT Ryan's airline. Another report about the same time reported that a control tower operator at Rome, NY saw an object. An interceptor was scrambled with negative results and "No joy" (ie no radar return). This and several other reports were put down to Venus with no further investigation and no IRs to ATIC. There were a series of sightings that week from the ground and from the air. Some can be explained as Venus. So therefore, the 4602d AISS concluded that all could be so explained, and no investigation was necessary. The teletype messages have more mistakes than one of my postings so they are somewhat difficult to follow. Apparently the interceptor mission was "Jumping Jack Able One." who thought he saw Venus. Now here is where some research is needed. Unit histories for units in the area should be consulted and the mission reports and logs for the Air Force units around the area could yeild results that the 4602d AISS did not deem worthy of investigation. The other reports from the area reinforced the 4602d AISS' conclusion that Ryan had seen Venus. Jacques Vallee and others have commented on the usefulness of the Air Force TT messages. While they give information in a format so details can be recalled, it is sometimes difficult to determine the order in which events took place. NOTE: When no investigation is authorized, the Air Force sighting report is not even sent out to the witness(es) for completion. About this time a special form for aircraft sightings was developed. It is unfortunate it was not used in this case. Apparently related reports: AISS-UFOB-96-56, Albany, NY, no investigation authorized, conclusion: Venus. AISS-UFOB-98-56, Rome, NY, no investigation authorized, conclusion: aircraft. JAN ALDRICH
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 AUFORA - Alien Insurance Pays Off From: AUFORA News Update <dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 01:54:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 09:59:49 -0500 Subject: AUFORA - Alien Insurance Pays Off AUFORA News Update Wednesday, December 25th, 1996 - Merry Christmas! ______________________________ ALIEN INSURANCE PAYS OFF by David Walmsey in London It could be the perfect case for agents Mulder and Scully. In true X-Files style, an electrician claims he was lifted from the ground and knocked unconscious by a UFO near London. He is apparently to be paid $2 million by insurers who covered him against abduction by aliens. Industry sources, however, are suggesting that the payout could, just possibly, be an out-of-this-world publicity stunt. The story starts on October 8 when Joseph Carpenter, 23, of North London, claims he was struck down by a mystery light at Swindon. The area is a "hot spot" for such phenomena, says Mr Carpenter, who runs a UFO hunting group called the Majestic Twelve. "On the evening in question, an intense beam of light, like a police helicopter, had me," he said. "The anti-gravity force within it lifted me above the ground. I passed out as I went directly into it. All this was captured on film." By an amazing stroke of luck, Mr Carpenter had paid $205 for cover against such an eventuality to a company called GRIP, run by insurance broker Simon Burgess. Mr Carpenter was able to produce "compelling evidence" of his ordeal, including camcorder footage, witnesses and DNA samples taken from what he said was a claw found at the scene. Mr Burgess said last night: "The work on the DNA sample was carried out by a research fellow at Cambridge University -- I can't give you the name. But the work proved conclusively that the sample was something that had never been seen before and which was not of this Earth." Mr Burgess says Mr Carpenter was expected to receive his $2 million yesterday at a London hotel from Scully herself, X-Files star Gillian Anderson. The broker, described by one industry source as "an unhelpful maverick", is believed to have made a deal with a Sunday paper for exclusive coverage of the presentation. Industry insiders say he is almost certain to make a profit from Mr Carpenter's claim. One said: "If he plays his cards right, he will claw the money back by wisely selling the world rights of the video evidence to TV companies. If he co-wrote a book using the evidence, the money would also roll in." __________________ AUFORA News Update News, Information, Facts from the world of UFOlogy To subscribe send e-mail to: dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ Helios Science News: http://www.helios.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 UFO Books - The Serious Literature From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 03:42:03 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 09:58:01 -0500 Subject: UFO Books - The Serious Literature UFO Books -- The Serious Literature Compiled by Keith Rowell Please pass this list along intact to anyone who wants a copy. _________________________________________________________________ This list is a quick guide to the best of the wide range of UFO books. The literature varies from naive believers to fanatic debunkers. This list, however, features the people in the middle: the UFO researchers. They believe genuine UFOs are a mystery needing a solution. Unlike UFO researchers, the naive believers and debunkers think alike since they both believe the mystery is solved. Naive believers "know" genuine UFOs are flying saucers piloted by space beings. Debunkers "know" it is all just psychology or perhaps some as yet undiscovered physical phenomenon. However, when mainstream scholars and scientists finally accept the challenge of the UFO mystery (which they haven't for 40 years now), the naive believers will probably be closer to the truth than the debunkers. In order to join the debate about the reality of the saucers, you need to read at least half of these books. If you haven't, you haven't done the first thing that any scholar or scientist does -- a literature search and perusal (peruse means to read carefully, don't forget!). Remember, your opinion is worth no more than the depth of your understanding of a topic. The UFO, strange as it may seem to some of you, has a serious literature devoted it. Yes, it's true, this literature is definitely not scientific or scholarly in the strict sense of the word, but that is simply because enough scientists and scholars are not aware of the problem of the UFO yet. Every year, especially in the eighties and nineties, more and more scientists and scholars are turning a serious eye to the problem. This is happening despite the orchestration of negative opinion promoted over the years by the intelligence establishment of the US. Sad to say, US intelligence is part and parcel of the UFO problem. Anyone who ignores this is just plain naive. The list... Berlitz, Charles and William L. Moore. The Roswell Incident. New York: Grosset & Dunlap, 1980. 168pp. ISBN 0-448-21199-8. The facts about the crash of a saucer in the summer of 1947 in New Mexico and how the US government covered it up. Bowen, Charles, ed. The Humanoids. Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969. 256pp. LC 77-126142. Good summary of the evidence compiled from material published in the British Flying Saucer Review magazine. Blum, Howard. Out There: The Government's Secret Quest for Extraterrestrials. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1990. 300pp. ISBN 0-671-66260-0. An important book since it is written by a former NY Times reporter who has written two other influential books -- one about Nazi intelligence officers brought to America illegally after WWII and the other about the Walker spy case. However, Blum's UFO book was apparently hastily done and, thus, somewhat of a disappointment in the UFO research community. Bullard, Thomas Edward. UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery. Vol. 1: Comparative Study of Abduction Reports. (Bloomington, IND): Fund for UFO Research, 1987. 402pp. This study by a PhD folklorist is must reading for anyone wanting to understand the depth and breadth of the abduction enigma. Bullard concludes UFO abduction stories are much too internally consistent down to small details to be classed as traditional folklore or typical dream material. Butler, Brenda, Dot Street, and Jenny Randles. Sky Crash: A Cosmic Conspiracy. Sudbury, Great Britain: Neville Spearman, 1984. 283pp. ISBN 85435-155-8. Review and analysis of the facts in the British Bentwaters-Rendlesham RAFB case. Clark, Jerome. The UFO Encyclopedia, Volume 1: UFOs in the 1980s. Detroit, MI: Apogee Books, 1990. 234pp. ISBN 1-55888-301-0. This encyclopedia is mostly the author's tour de force, but still delivers valuable information not easily available elsewhere. Libraries should have this. Clark, Jerome. The UFO Encyclopedia, Volume 2: The Emergence of a Phenomenon: UFOs from the Beginning through 1959. Detroit, MI: Omnigraphics, 1992. 433pp. ISBN 1-55888-301-0. The second volume of this fine work is must reading for those desiring real understanding of UFOs. Colombo, John Robert. UFOs Over Canada: Personal Accounts of Sightings and Close Encounters. Willowdale, Ontario, Canada: Hounslow Press, 1991. 221pp. ISBN 0-88882-138-7. A nice book by a famous Canadian compiler of Canadiana of short UFO accounts mostly in the words of the witnesses themselves. Condon, Edward U. and Daniel S. Gillmor (ed.). Final Report of the Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects (Conducted by the University of Colorado Under Contract to the United States Air Force). New York: Bantam Books, 1968. 965pp. After close, competent study of over 100 UFO sighting reports, 30% couldn't be identified! Read Condon's prejudiced introduction only after you have looked through the rest of the study. The National Academy of Sciences rubber-stamped Condon's recommendations that no public funds be devoted to the study of UFOs. Conroy, Ed. Report on Communion: An Independent Investigation of and Commentary on Whitley Strieber's Communion. New York: Morrow, 1989. 427pp. ISBN 0-688-08864-3. This journalist was a boyhood acquaintance of Strieber. When Strieber published Communion, Conroy decided to see if his story would hold up under an investigative journalist's scrutiny. Conroy says yes. Crystall, Ellen. Silent Invasion: The Shocking Discoveries of a UFO Researcher. New York: Paragon House, 1991. 190pp. ISBN 1-55778- 493-0. A UFO researcher uses her psychic abilities to locate UFOs in the field. Interesting for showing how a scientifically naive person still understands that scientific and scholarly proof is what is needed in the end. Many hard to interpret photos accompany the text. Curran, Douglas. In Advance of the Landing: Folk Concepts of Outer Space. New York: Abbeville Press, 1985. 132pp. ISBN 0-89659-523- 4. Valuable photographic presentation of UFO folklore. Deardorff, James W. Celestial Teachings: The Emergence of the True Testament of Jmmanuel (Jesus). Tigard, OR: Wild Flower Press, 1990. 323pp. ISBN 0-926524-11-9. An analysis of some of the collateral material from the extensive Billy Meier contact case. Delgado, Pat and Colin Andrews. Circular Evidence: A Detailed Investigation of the Flattened Swirled Crops Phenomenon. London: Bloomsbury, 1989. 190pp. ISBN 0-7475-0357-5. The first of the picture books about crop "circles". It's a very good presentation of the facts and their investigative methods. Some investigators believe UFOs may produce the "circles". Druffel, Ann and D. Scott Rogo. The Tujunga Canyon Contacts. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1980. 264pp. ISBN 0-13- 932541-7. Good book about abduction/contact experiences. Eberhart, George M. UFOs and the Extraterrestrial Contact Movement: a bibliography. Metuchen, NJ: Scarecrow Press, 1986. 1298pp. ISBN 0-8108-1919-8. An outstanding listing of books, articles, movies, TV appearances, dissertations, conferences, etc., about UFOs and related phenomena. No library in America should be without it. Ask your public library to get a copy today!! Emenegger, Robert. UFO's: Past, Present and Future. New York: Ballantine Books, 1974. 180pp. ISBN 345-24189-4-150. Good general book. Emenegger produced a film documentary of the same name. The US government hinted that it would give him some "real" flying saucer footage for inclusion in his film. This didn't happen. Evans, Hilary and John Spencer (eds.). UFOs: 1947-1987 -- The 40- Year Search for an Explanation. London: Fortean Tomes, 1987. 384pp. ISBN 1-870021-02-9. Similar to the other book by Spencer and Evans, but more extensive. A must read for dedicated ufologists. Fawcett, Lawrence and Barry J. Greenwood. Clear Intent: The Government Coverup of the UFO Experience. Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall, 1984. 259pp. ISBN 0-13-136656-4. Very important book summarizing what ufologists know from studying the thousands of FOIA-released government UFO documents. Everything but proof of crashed flying saucers is here, and it's all from FOIA-released documents! Flammonde, Paris. UFO Exist! New York: Putnam, 1976. 406pp. ISBN 399-11538-2. Fine history of the subject from a radio producer/journalist. The book details the US government's involvement. Fowler, Raymond E. The Andreasson Affair. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1979. 239pp. ISBN 0-13-036608-0. First book about a now famous abductee, Betty Andreasson Luca. Good, Timothy. Above Top Secret: The Worldwide UFO Cover-Up. New York: William Morrow, 1988. 592pp. ISBN 0-688-07860-5. The most important book about the on-going government cover-up. Good, Timothy. Alien Liaison: The Ultimate Secret. London: Century, 1991. 242pp. ISBN 0-7126-2194-6. A reliable introduction to the wilder tales circulating in the UFO subculture in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. The bizarre nature of what is known makes a prudent investigator reluctant to throw out any information. Some of this will turn out to be true after it is put through the academic mill in the 1990s and beyond. Not for the timid or intellectually rigid. Haines, Richard F., ed. UFO Phenomena and the Behavioral Scientist. Metuchen, N.J.: The Scarecrow Press, 1979. 450pp. ISBN 0-8108- 1228-2. Scholarly book of papers on how eyewitnesses report UFOs and what cultural factors influence UFO reports. Haines, Richard F. Advanced Aerial Devices Reported During the Korean War. Los Altos, CA: LDA Press, 1990. 75pp. ISBN 0-9618082- 1-7. An important study of early military UFO sightings. Haines, Richard F. Melbourne Episode: Case Study of a Missing Pilot. Los Altos, CA: L. D. A. Press, 1987. 275pp. ISBN 0-88229-540-3. Detailed review and analysis of the Australian Valentich airplane abduction case. Haines, Richard F. Observing UFOs: An Investigative Handbook. Chicago: Nelson-Hall, 1980. 300pp. ISBN 0-88229-540-3. Exceedingly cautious scientific study of mostly night lights and daylight discs categories of UFOs. Hall, Richard. Uninvited Guests: A Documented History of UFO Sightings, Alien Encounters & Coverups. Santa Fe, NM: Aurora Press, 1988. 381pp. ISBN 0-943358-32-9. A very good summary of the whole field of ufology. Highly recommended as a place to start. Hendry, Allan. The UFO Handbook: A Guide to Investigating, Evaluating, and Reporting UFO Sightings. Garden City, NY: Doubleday (Dolphin), 1979. 297pp. ISBN 0-385-14348-6. The best study of the subject. About 1300 UFO reports, all happening within the year and a half of the study's duration, are dissected. 8.6% fall into the genuine UFOs category, that is, essentially flying saucers, whatever they are! Hopkins, Budd. Intruders: The Incredible Visitations at Copley Woods. New York: Random House, 1987. 223pp. ISBN 0-394-56076-0. HopkinsU second book. He says it is likely that aliens are mixing our genes with theirs, and this is a major purpose of the abductions. Hopkins, Budd. Missing Time: A Documented Study of UFO Abductions. New York: Richard Marek, 1981. 258pp. ISBN 0-399-90102-7. Hopkins' first book about abductions. Howe, Linda Moulton. An Alien Harvest: Further Evidence Linking Animal Mutilations and Human Abductions to Alien Life Forms. Littleton, CO: Linda Moulton Howe Productions, 1989. 455pp. ISBN 0- 9620570-1-0. Best book of surprisingly few considering the 25 year history of animal mutilations. Holroyd, Stuart. Alien Intelligence. New York: Everest House, 1979. 231pp. ISBN 0-89696-040-4. An excellent book by a student of the paranormal that compares the different kinds of intelligence, including ET intelligence and "disembodied" intelligence. Hynek, J. Allen, Philip J. Imbrogno, and Bob Pratt. Night Siege: The Hudson Valley UFO Sightings. New York: Ballantine Books, 1987. 208pp. ISBN 0-345-34213-5. About the early 1980s boomerang UFO flap involving thousands of sightings. Hynek, J. Allen. The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry. New York: Ballantine Books, 1972. 309pp. ISBN 345-23953-9-150. The father of modern ufology writes a solid book about the subject. Jacobs, David Michael. Secret Life: Firsthand Accounts of UFO Abductions. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1992. 336pp. ISBN 0-671- 74857-2. The most important book on UFO abductions so far. Start here because the presentation is a just the facts, ma'am, blow by blow account of what Jacobs believes is happening. He says essential aspects of all abductions are absolutely real in ordinary perceptual and space-time reality. However, there are definite perceptual and space-time anomalies too. When people report that they had a missing time experience of two hours, Jacobs says they are actually bodily missing from planet Earth, or at least human beings cannot find them on Earth! A warning to extreme skeptics and debunkers: this book may be hazardous to your mental health! Jacobs, David Michael. The UFO Controversy in America. Bloomington, IN: Indiana University Press, 1975. 362pp. ISBN 0- 253-19006-1. A historian's review of ufology up to the date of publication. Keyhoe, Donald E. Aliens from Space: The Real Story of Unidentified Flying Objects. Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1973. 322pp. Keyhoe says the US government has crashed saucers and alien bodies. He's probably right. The last of Keyhoe's five books about UFOs. Kinder, Gary. Light Years: An Investigation into the Extraterrestrial Experiences of Eduard Meier. New York: Atlantic Monthly Press, 1987. 265pp. ISBN 0-87113-139-0. Easy introduction to the complex Billy Meier case. The case is noted for outstanding photos and film of UFOs and extensive contact notes. Knight, David C. UFOs: A Pictorial History From Antiquity to the Present. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1979. 192pp. ISBN 0-07-035103-1. UFO photos galore. Lindemann, Michael. UFOs and the Alien Presence: Six Viewpoints. Santa Barbara, CA: The 2020 Group, 1991. 233pp. ISBN 0-9630104- 0-9. Oh, what to do with all the disparate UFO evidence! Learn here how UFO luminaries Stanton Friedman, Budd Hopkins, Linda Howe, Don Ware, Bob Lazar, and an anonymous probable abductee make sense of it all, well, some small portion, anyway. Lorenzen, Coral and Jim Lorenzen. Flying Saucer Occupants. New York: New American Library (Signet), 1967. 215pp. One of many important books by longtime UFO researchers and directors of the UFO investigative organization, APRO. Both deceased today, but not forgotten for their lasting contribution to ufology. McCambell, James M. UFOLOGY: A Major Breakthrough in the Scientific Understanding of Unidentified Flying Objects. Millbrae, CA: Celestial Arts, 1976. 184pp. ISBN 0-89087-144-2. Straightforward analysis of probable physics of UFO phenomena. Noyes, Ralph, ed. The Crop Circle Enigma: Grounding the Phenomenon in Science, Culture and Metaphysics. Bath, UK: Gateway Books, 1990. 192pp. ISBN 0-946551-66-9. More facts and speculation about the "agriglyphs". Randle, Kevin D. and Donald R. Schmitt. UFO Crash at Roswell. New York: Avon, 1991. 327pp. ISBN 0-380-76196-3. The authors don't back down. They say they have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that a flying saucer -- not a UFO -- crashed in NM in the summer of 1947. Get off your duff. Prove them wrong! Randles, Jenny. Abduction: Over 200 Documented UFO Kidnappings Investigated. London: Robert Hale, 1988. 240pp. ISBN 0-7090-3276- 5. A British UFO researcher does a book about abductions. It is important for showing that abductions are not just a North (or South) American phenomenon. Randles, Jenny. From Out of the Blue: The Incredible UFO Cover-up at Bentwaters NATO Air Base. New Brunswick, NJ: Global Communications, 1991. 192pp. ISBN 0-938294-08-3. Randles treats us to the latest, updated information on the Bentwaters RAFB, Great Britain, landing of December 1980. Randles, Jenny. The UFO Conspiracy: The First Forty Years. New York: Blanford Press, 1987. 224pp. ISBN 0-7137-1972-9. Excellent summary of the worldwide coverup of UFO information. Randles, Jenny. UFO Reality: A Critical Look at the Physical Evidence. London: Robert Hale, 1983. 248pp. ISBN 0-7090-1080-X. Very good presentation of the range of evidence for genuine UFO reality. Randles, Jenny and Peter Warrington. Science and the UFOs. Oxford, U.K.: Basil Blackwell, 1985. 215pp. ISBN 0-631-13563-4. Why the science establishment doesn't recognize and study UFOs. Ruppelt, Edward J. The Report of Unidentified Flying Objects. Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1956. 277pp. Written by a former head of the AF's Project Blue Book public relations UFO effort. "Brand New Enlarged Edition Latest, Up-to-the-minute Facts on UFO!" on dust jacket. No indication whatsoever inside the new edition that it differs from the earlier edition by the addition of three extra (debunking) chapters. Without the dust jacket you would never know there are two distinct editions of this classic UFO book. Some UFO researchers speculate that the Air Force/CIA was displeased enough with Ruppelt's pro-UFO first edition that they made him include the last three chapters in the "new edition"! Sagan, Carl and Thorton Page, eds. UFO's -- A Scientific Debate. New York: Norton, 1972. 310pp. ISBN 0-393-00739-1. Appeared shortly after the Condon Committee Report said once again that saucers don't exist so they won't be studied by science. UFO proponents, debunkers, and honest skeptics have their say here. Salisbury, Frank B. The Utah UFO Display: A Biologist's Report. Old Greenwich, CN: Devin-Adair, 1974. 286pp. ISBN 0-8159-7000-5. Straightforward recounting of UFO events in Utah 1966-1973 with some intelligent speculation about what it might mean. Saunders, David R. and R. Roger Harkins. UFOs? Yes! Where the Condon Committee Went Wrong. New York: World Publishing, 1968. 256pp. LC 68-59202. This book was written by a scientist (Saunders) fired by Condon when he leaked a confidential department memo that made it clear that the Condon UFO Study was a sham. Schwarz, Berthold E. UFO Dynamics: Psychiatric and Psychic Aspects of the UFO Syndrome. Moore Haven, FL: Rainbow Books, 1988. 560pp. ISBN 0-935834-64-8. A psychiatrist deals with the psychic components of the UFO phenomena. Scully, Frank. Behind the Flying Saucers. New York: Henry Holt, 1950. 230pp. The first book in English about UFOs. Hollywood reporter talks about crashed discs that have only become plausible to mainstream investigators again in the 1980s. Sitchin, Zecharia. The 12th Planet. New York: Avon, 1978. 436pp. ISBN 0-380-39362-X. This lay scholar/journalist presents the best documented ancient astronaut evidence in his series of books -- this being the first one. Spencer, John and Hilary Evans, eds. Phenomenon: Forty Years of Flying Saucers. New York: Avon Books, 1988. 413pp. ISBN 0-380- 70654-7. Essays about ufology from prominent ufologists in America and Europe. Good for seeing that UFOs are a worldwide phenomenon. Story, Ronald, ed. The Encyclopedia of UFOs. Garden City, NY: Doubleday (Dolphin Books), 1980. 440pp. ISBN 0-385-11681-0. The best of the encyclopedic books on UFOs. Don't miss this. Get your local library to buy a copy. Strieber, Whitley. Communion: A True Story. New York: William Morrow, 1987. 299pp. ISBN 0-688-07086-8. Bestselling book by previously bestselling author. It's about his probable abductions. Thompson, Keith. Angels and Aliens: UFOs and the Mythic Imagination. New York: Addison-Wesley, 1991. 283pp. ISBN 0-201- 55084-9. A minor lay scholar of the Jungian school takes on the UFO. His history of the field should be read by all UFO investigators. He suspects there might be a "real" component to UFOs, but his emphasis is on the mythic aspects, which may be more important in the final analysis anyway. Vallee, Jacques. Confrontations: A Scientist's Search for Alien Contact. New York: Ballantine Books, 1990. 263pp. ISBN 0-345- 36453-8. Vallee is back to presenting "hard evidence" again instead of speculation. Some Brazilian peasants were killed in apparent encounters with UFOs. Vallee, Jacques. Dimensions: A Casebook of Alien Contact. New York: Contemporary Books, 1988. 304pp. ISBN 0-8092-4586-8. The best statement of Vallee's thesis -- UFOs are a manifestation of a time immemorial alien control system. Vallee, Jacques. Messengers of Deception: UFO Contacts and Cults. Berkeley, CA: And/Or Press, 1979. 243pp. ISBN 0-915904-38-1. Just what the title says. Vallee adds to our understanding of the cultural effects of UFOs. Vallee, Jacques. Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers. Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969. 372pp. ISBN 0-8092-8330-1. A study of the surprising parallels between fairy lore and modern accounts of UFO beings. Vallee, Jacques. UFO Chronicles of the Soviet Union: A Cosmic Samizdat. New York: Ballantine Books, 1992. 212pp. ISBN 0-345- 37396-0. Vallee turns away from excessive American ufologist bashing to give us a reasonable rundown on the latest in Russian UFOs and ufology. It's been as bad over there as it has been elsewhere. The aliens seem to be equal opportunity abusers the world over.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Season's Greetings From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:07:51 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:00:56 -0500 Subject: Season's Greetings Season's Greetings to everyone and God bless to you. May your endeavors prosper in the New Year! Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Project 1947 - CIRVIS Report from 4602d AISS files From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 22:02:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:00:27 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - CIRVIS Report from 4602d AISS files COMMUNICATIONS INSTRUCTIONS FOR REPORTING VITAL INTELLIGENCE SIGHTINGS-CRIVIS Shown below is CIRVIS report with the handwritten identification 27 Sep 54, Philadelphia, Pa from the 4602d AISS files. No follow up or investigations were contained in this file. The report has not yet been checkED against the Project Blue Book files. However, I doubt if it is on the Blue Book index. * * * * * ADC A119 ENA163 JEDLS A061 YY JEDEN SUPVR JEDLS 1353S ZUI JEDNM 005/28 AND ENB 021/28 ZDK AOEE EDLS A313 E M E R G E N C Y YY JEDEN BEGC JEPHQ 333 DE JEDLS OAH Y280305Z FM CMDR F/S OMSTED AFB PA. TO JEDEN/COMMANDER ADC ENT AFB COLORADO SPRING COLORADO BEGC/COMESTSEAFRON NEW YORK N. Y. JEPHQ/CHEIF OF STAFF USAF WASHDC CIRVIS FLYING OBJECT BRIGHT AND CIRCULAR IN SHAPE MOVING SOUTHWEST AT HIGH RATE OF SPEED BETWEEN 15000 AND 20000 FT SIGHTED AT 2122E 27 SEPTEMBER 1954. OBJECT OBSERVED FOUR MINUTES BY CAPT P. SWIFT PILOT OF NC NUMBER 486-A MARTIN 404 TYPE ACFT ENROUTE WASHINGTON D.C. TO NEWARK N. J. ACFT APPROX 10 MILES SOUTH OF PHILA. PA. ON TRACK OF 062 DEGREES CRUSING 11000FT AT TIME OF SIGHTING.REPORT RECEIVED FROM MR. ANDERSON CONTROLLER WASHINGTON ARTC. 28/0324Z SEP JEDLS * * * * * The following additional hand written notations are made on the report. "Jac" across the top. The following are written which probably indicate distribution for this message. Some of these are Air Force abbreviations, and I am not sure of some of their meanings. Cmdr =Commander VC = Vice Commander CofS Chief of Staff CAdj = ? (maybe Chief Adjutant?) Admin = Administration DO = (?might mean Duty Officer or Directorate of Operations?) O & T = ? IC = ? Distribution is probably indicated within Air Defense Command. Somewhere I have a diagram of the different staffs and their relationships at ADC, but it is not readily available. The word "EMERGENCY" is printed in block letters. The word "Penn" is also handwritten at the top of the message. At the bottom of the message is written "27 Sep 54 Philadelphia, Pa" and "Info 4602nd." At the top of the message is stamped ACT (with DI written in) SUS (with a check mark and 61365 written in). The message is date stamped Sep 28 07 27 '54. Note: The message is unclassified. I have also found a CIRVIS Confirmation report on United Airlines letterhead concerning contrails seen in Oregon. This report is also unclassified. Another CIRVIS from a different time and location has a follow up UFOB message. Both are also unclassified. Note: That the message above does not appeared to be directed to HQ, USAF, Directorate of Intelligence. This appears to be an operational matter. There are no MERINT reports in the 4602d AISS files. As indicated in JUST CAUSE #48, no MERINT reports of UFOs are known. I have talked to Navy personnel who indicate that the MERINT directive was seldom complied with by Naval ships. However, MERINT was also effective for merchant ships. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:01:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:01:14 -0500 Subject: STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' ebk ____________________________________ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 18:27:54 +0100 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' Errol BK <updates@globalserve.net wrote : > Dick Hoagland seems to have found many > instances of 'interesting occurances' at > 19.5 degrees on various planetary and > orbiting bodies. Ghiza, the 'Chinese > Pyramid', the 'Mars Face', the 'Glass > Shard', etc. Just a minor correction : Giza, the Chinese Pyramid, Mars Face, Glass Shard .. etc are _not_ themselves located at 19.5 degrees on their respective planets. 19.5 degrees is a number encoded in certain aspects of these monuments or their lat/long location. See Carl Munck's book, The Code 1997, for more information on this subject (available from http://www.lauralee.com). Regarding the position of the shuttle STS-48 over Australia, it was either a coincidence for it to have filmed those UFOs while over 19.5 degrees or else it was a "pre-planned, symbolic event" ... just like the Mars Pathfinder having a tetrahedral shape and landing at 19.5 degrees ... or the lunar landings occurring when Sirius was at 19.5 degrees above the lunar horizon. Regards, JJ Mercieca .----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '----------------------------------------------------' *MUFOR Web site : http://207.167.67.197/ * *TLP Database : http:// ^^^ /tlp/lunar.html * *E-mail 1 : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * *E-mail 2 : mufor@waldonet.net.mt * *IRC Channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * *Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. *Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * *Postal Address : P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: Carl Sagan From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:30:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:01:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan > Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 21:56:38 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > > >Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:51:11 -0500 > >From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> > >Organization: Kentucky/MUFON > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Sagan & Dr. Boylan > Hi Jerry. > > I agree with you. While I will not attack "Carl Sagan, The Man," I will > gratefully > acknowledge my lack of regret that "Carl Sagan, the Astronomer and Debunker" > is gone. > Some will reply that you cannot separate the TWO. I argue differently. For his > and our sake, as a species, it is hoped that we will survive because, someone > was able to separate the "chaff" from the "wheat." Merry Christmas Mike, I just can not leave this alone. I do not agree with you, this is beginning to remind me of the book burners. Instead of books you people are burning Carl Sagan. For anyone to dismiss all of Sagan's works because he would not take the side of the true believers is like saying there IS only one side and you people are on that one -right- side. Those of us who choose to wait for some form of evidence are all -debunkers- to you. You are saying those of us who do not agree with you should not say anything. > The "chaff" being our outer appearances, i.e., Carl Sagan the Astronomer. > The "Wheat" on the other hand being "Carl Sagan" the Man. > That part of him grew and advanced as all others, but that was the man > behind the mask. (shaking head) I AM surprised you see NO value in anything the Astronomer did. He disagreed because there is NO scientific evidence and he is condemned for that. > Unfortunately, it is "The Mask" that most of us knew. We judge him by that > which is seen and heard. Why judge his opinion at all. That was all it was, it did NOT shadow all the great works he did as a scientist or man. > To the "Mask" I say "good riddance." I'm sorry, but I cannot be a hypocrite > about it. I will not show two different faces to my peers. That is the > problem today. We want to say what will not offend, even though we know > it is not so. You are condemning Carl Sagan for NOT being a hypocrite. He stood by his beliefs and you say -good riddance-..... What is really going on here is that those who -want- to believe there are good aliens coming because they have been here before feel threatened by a man like Sagan who voices his opinion. Do you think he should have -not offended- and kept his opinion to himself? You people who are -happy- that Carl Sagan is gone (BTW, he left behind a wife, a 5 yr. old son, and 13 yr old daughter) really need to ask yourselves why you would be happy about the early death of a person who has made many positive contributions to this world. You are all -happy- because he DISAGREED with you... Is there something wrong with this picture??? YES! > How much "harm and suffering" has this ego called "Sagan the Astronomer" > caused among those unfortunate individuals who happen to be, like you, > in the wrong place at the right time? He has not helped solve the problem, > but instead, added to it. He cannot now change what has gone before him. > His mistakes<?> are recorded for all time in history, and there is no way for > him to make amends for them. PLEASE! This business of blaming Sagan for the misery of abductees is BS and you know it Mike. He was not a Psychologist or any other sort of mental health provider. He had no contact or involvement with abductees. This business of condemning anyone who does not follow the -party line- and saying anyone who does not take the -party line- is part of the UFO cover-up and will be punished is really self righteous and pompous. What if you people are wrong? What if these abductions are something else? Are you all going to hell because you did not make amends? What about all the good Carl Sagan did? > I pray that those who have suffered the most from his "attitude" will forgive > the most. Ignorance and desire for personal advancement and recognition > cause many of us to chose a path which can and often does lead us into > the darkness of the abyss, rather than into the light of the COSMOS. > In my opinion, this is what happened to Dr. Carl Sagan, "the Astronomer." Yes, and it is ONLY your opinion which is based in bias instead of HONEST investigation of the man's live and contributions. > I can not profess to say what "Carl Sagan, the Man" felt. I am and was > not familiar with that aspect of his personality. I guess you have not bothered to read anything about the man other than the bias written by true believers who want to silence ANY voice that disagrees. > Take care Jerry. May the Love of this Season bridge the abyss > which separates us from the Sun/Son of Knowledge and Light. That will only happen when we as Earth Family ACCEPT the fact our opinions are only that. It would require something called Brotherly Love... Julie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:08:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:03:32 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 In a message dated 96-12-25 00:09:21 EST, Stan Friedman wrote: << Kevin: I will do my thing. You do yours. Stan Friedman >> I must assume that we are not going to get the answers to the questions asked. I had hoped for a rational dialogue that would enlighen us about the situation surrounding MJ-12. I had hoped that we could learn why there was so much "negative" evidence and see if there were any intelligent, scientific and rational arguments for the authenticity of the documents that might have been lost in the rhetoric. I guess there aren't. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 25 Ventura/Santa Barbara County UFO Update From: Mary Helen Corrado <mcorrado@jetlink.net> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 07:58:57 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:02:46 -0500 Subject: Ventura/Santa Barbara County UFO Update We have just received word that the UFO in Camarillo was spotted again about 4:45pm on Tuesday, December 24th. We also have corroborating evidence of a similar object spotted in Santa Barbara. The sighting is listed below as is the video analysis of the footage that was shot back on December 3. The mystery continues in California!!! SANTA BARBARA SIGHTING "Around sunset (5:53PDT) in Santa Barbara, CA on Wednesday December 18th my wife and I observed a very bright white light at about 60 deg South. Through binoculars we could not make out a defined sharp edge, it looked fuzzy at the edges. The object was drifting slowly and linearly in an Easterly direction. Height could have been anywhere from 30-60,000 ft. but luminosity was very high. Conditions were clear, with excellent visibility due to low humidity. About 10-15 minutes after sunset, the intensity instantaneously diminished to where it was barely visible as a dot in the clear but darkening sky. Then as we watched it started emitting a short linear cloud-like trail about 10-20 times its lenght with a defined end to it, not the usual dissipating end of a jet's con-trail. And then the object and trace just disappeared almost instantly. We are reasonable experienced skywatchers and my wife is an astronomy buff. This was not a satellite, not a high-flying commercial plane, and not a meteor - nor was it a star, as several of the brightest started to appear at the end of this sighting, which gives an indication of how bright it was. ANALYSIS OF VIDEO TAPE OF CAMARILLO SIGHTING by SVG DIGITAL SYSTEMS December 21, 1996 CERTIFICATION SUBJECT: Video Tape from 12/3/96 VIDEOGRAPHER: Mary Helen Corrado FINDINGS: Analysis of the above video indicates object is of a solid nature. Its trajectory and climb ascent indicate it is not a conventional aircraft. It appears to have a gaseous shorud surrounding its core. Its ascent rate based on fram calculations indicates high velocity movement. Still photos supporting the video eliminate camera or lens aberrations. This video has similar characteristics of footage from Florida, Arizona and New Mexico, all of which were videotaped independent of this video. CONCLUSION: This object's speed can be calculated by its movement across the video frames (there are no exact reference points). Considering this frame movement (30fps) its speed is in the 4000 - 6000 mph range. Aeronautical movements indicate an object with advanced maneuverable characteristics not of any known conventional aircraft. It would seem the object was operating on a system that is of unknown origin. Furthermore its light characteristics seem to be self emitting (light spectrum analysis) as opposed to reflections. I would classify the object as unidentifiable.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:31:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:48:25 -0500 Subject: STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' > Date: Wednesday, December 25, 1996 7:55 AM > > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' > Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:50:19 -0700 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > Errol sent: > ---------- > > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: UFO UpDate: STS 48 & '19.5 Degrees' > > Date: Tuesday, December 24, 1996 10:15 AM > > And, on this video, as the shuttle came up on _19.5_ > > _degrees_ over Australia, there were this set of > Hi Errol: > First: Julie and my very best wishes to you and yours this > holiday season! > We hope that you are enjoying a happy one! > I want you to know that we are both deeply appreciative > of the wonderful job that you have been doing. > Second: Glad to see that the 'kinks' in the system have been > straightened out. > It is great to be getting news from this quarter > once again. :-) > Third: Forgive my ignorance, but is this figure of 19.5 degrees > one that Hoagland arbitrarily throws out in each instance, or > is this an actual fact? If fact it is but one more coincidence > to throw on the pile. I don't know about you, but my reality > doesn't contain coincidences. :-) > Kindest Regards, > Clark Hathaway > _________________________________ > > Clark, > I don't recall anyone disputing Dick Hoagland's '19.5' > observations. The geographic positions of the subjects > that interest him are, apparently, indisputable and as > such are part of what made me sit up and take notice. Forgive me, I didn't mean to suggest that his figures were or are in dispute. I was ineptly attempting to point out that somehow this had slipped by me. I guess that I just wasn't paying attention. <grin> Very interesting. Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: Richard Hoagland From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 96 15:38:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:49:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Richard Hoagland Steve Bassett said; >I have to confess to being a "Bellhead". I have no trouble saying, with >the caveat that at least once a week the show goes completely over the >falls, >that Bell's show is the most provocative, interesting and daring exposition >in media today. I predict it will destroy the circadian rhythms of millions. Hehehehe... Yep! :) And you are right about Richard Hoagland too! I predict that he "will" also "destroy the circadian rhythms of millions." Having a tad of knowledge does indeed allow one to listen to Richard as he makes brilliant deductions by the dozen. What is interesting is that his conjectures (which he rarely makes) are also most difficult to refute. Anyone who say's Hoagland talks about nothing can only have a brain that is filled with nothing to start with. Perhaps if they took the trouble to find out they would have something to compare with. Until such time it is my opinion that it takes nothing to know nothing. As for Richard, the only 'nothing' I can associate with what he say's is having failed to hear him due to a power failure when my radio won't work. Richard is indeed a genius our time can ill afford to be without. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: Carl Sagan From: HoustonSky@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:32:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:47:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:30:06 -0700 > PLEASE! This business of blaming Sagan for the misery of > abductees is BS and you know it Mike. He was not a Psychologist > or any other sort of mental health provider. He had no contact > or involvement with abductees. Sagan may have not been a psychologist but that did not stop him from "diagnosing" abductees. He did it most recently on NOVA's program on abductions. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Sightings in Israel From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 96 23:58:13 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:52:56 -0500 Subject: Sightings in Israel Does anyone have any information on UFO sightings in Israel on December 21st l995, or can anyone put me in contact with UFO groups/researchers in Israel. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle. el51@dial.pipex.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 IUFO: Inside Edition UFO Segment - 01-01-97 From: dcox@ix.netcom.com (Danny Cox) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 14:02:54 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:50:11 -0500 Subject: IUFO: Inside Edition UFO Segment - 01-01-97 -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List Forwarded message: Happy holidays everyone. The Inside Edition 'UFO' segment on the Aug. 27, 1995 Salida Colorado UFO video originally scheduled for Sept. 6 will air Jan. 1, 1997. The producer did his research and homework and put a lot of time into the show. I haven't seen it yet but the impression I get from him it will be presented in a positive manner and it's a 'Don't Miss'. I believe the show might be somewhat historic in the fact a mainstream tv show is showing excellent footage of a very highly documented sighting of a very large craft without the debunkers, I believe. The segment is six and a half minutes long. I've got my fingers crossed that it's a good show. I would encourage people to watch it and forward my post. Tim Edwards ---- End Forwarded Message
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Rumors of Aliens Trail Comet From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 23:07:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:51:02 -0500 Subject: Rumors of Aliens Trail Comet Rumors of Aliens Trail Comet Albuquerque Journal, 12/3/96 Charges that a spacecraft is headed for Earth behind the Comet Hale-Bopp have taken on a life of their own By John Fleck Journal Staff Writer An alien spacecraft is headed toward Earth, tailing Comet Hale-Bopp. NASA and the U.S.government know about it and are suppressing the telescope images that would prove it. Those charges, lurking on the Internet and talk radio since the comet was discovered in 1995, have exploded in recent weeks. The talk has been fueled by nationally syndicated late-night talk show host Art Bell and discussion groups on the Internet, where anyone who wants can weigh in. Despite debunking by scientists, the conspiracy theories have gained a momentum of their own, with the scientists who offer explanations immediately lumped in with the conspirators. The debate has grown so intense that, two weeks ago, one Internet critic called Alan Hale, the New Mexico astronomer who discovered the comet, "an Earth traitor" after Hale helped debunk one of the latest "mystery spaceship" sightings. "This whole thing is nutty," said Hale, who said he is alternately amused and aghast at the uproar surrounding the comet that bears his name. The most popular tale is that the spacecraft is either out to destroy us or save us. The government knows about it, according to the conspiracy theorists, and is keeping it from the public. Their evidence is a hodgepodge of speculation, information allegedly gathered telepathically from the aliens and astronomical data that, scientists say, have been misinterpreted out of ignorance. Neither Bell nor any of the other chief conspiracy theorists responded to Journal requests for comment. Hale-Bopp would seem an unlikely subject for an international cover-up, scientists say, simply because anyone who wants can take a look. Now 270 million miles from Earth and growing brighter, the potential comet of the century is hanging out there for anyone with a cheap telescope or even a pair of binoculars to see. Hale, who lives in the mountains outside Cloudcroft in southern New Mexico, has been observing the comet every night it's visible, and hasn't seen anything amiss. "Don't take my word for it," he says. "Go out and look at it." Since Hale and amateur star-gazer Thomas Bopp discovered the comet in July 1995, the conspiracy theorists have latched onto the comet with a vengeance. The evidence for the alien presence is hung from bits of truth. As astronomers gather more data on the comet's orbit, they have revised their calculations of its orbit. That has led to calls from conspiracy theorists that Hale-Bopp has "changed course," something no comet could do. Conspiracy theorists have also made much of a perceived paucity of publicly available images from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Hubble Space Telescope. Hubble comet pictures taken in September and October, published recently in the magazine Science News, do not seem to have reduced the vehemence of those arguments. For the record, NASA scientist Jay Bergstralh, who is heading up a portion of the space agency's comet research efforts, said he has heard of no such conspiracy. The discovery of "mysterious objects" in telescope pictures of the comet has been trumpeted by the conspiracy buffs, only to have astronomers identify them as stars in the backgrounds of the pictures. "What's upsetting is that they won't take the time to learn," said Harvard-based astronomer Daniel Green. If there was a mysterious object flying alongside the comet, said Green, amateur and professional astronomers around the world watching the comet would have seen and reported it. "That's the way science works. That's the way astronomy works. You can't hide anything," said Green, who works for the International Astronomical Union, an international clearing house for such information. The "mysterious object" pictures have nevertheless raised the conspiracy talk to a crescendo in recent weeks, led by late-night talk radio host Bell, whose syndicated show runs in Albuquerque on KOB AM (770) from midnight to 4 a.m. Last Thursday night, a guest on Bell's program claimed to have "remotely viewed" the alien spacecraft, using a sort of telepathic eyesight. Hale said the Internet has been both a curse and a blessing. Anyone with a computer and a telephone connection can "publish" information on the Internet, a worldwide computer network. That has allowed the Hale-Bopp conspiracy theories to spread quickly, but it has also given scientists an equal forum. But with Hale-Bopp getting brighter and likely to be major public spectacle next spring, Hale expects the wild talk to continue. "It's just going to get worse," he said.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 02:35:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:51:57 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA Some comments concerning, >From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) >Subject: (fwd) FLYING-SAUCEROLOGY :Europe vs the USA >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 14:33:16 -0800 (PST) > > >From: FS@platillos.net (Mario Belmondo) >Newsgroups: alt.alien.research,alt.ufo.reports, > alt.alien.research,alt.paranet.ufo >Subject: FLYING-SAUCEROLOGY :Europe vs the USA >Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 06:48:41 GMT >Organization: Twics Co. Ltd., Japan > > >--FLYING-SAUCEROLOGY IN EUROPE is different from Flying-Saucerology in >the USA... >---------------------- JC: My personal response to this post is "?????" The majority of it is a bunch of *generalities.* "Generalities do not a scientific study make." Present your research on a *specific* case or topic; tear it to shreds, pull the guts out of it, dissect it, bisect it, trisect it but, for God's sake, stop complaining and USA bashing. If you don't agree with U.S. studies, so be it....ignore us. If you don't agree with the "abduction cases website" located at http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html , ignore them. If you don't agree with "implant analyses" located at http://www.accessnv.com/nids/ and http://www.anw.com/first/ , ignore those. If you don't agree with "cattle mutilation theories," please stop reading Linda Moulton Howe's books. If you don't agree with Jack Kasher's analysis of NASA's ST 48, because you assume it to be impossible, be my guest. If you don't agree with the Pine Bush/Hudson Valley Website . Dr. Bruce Cornet http://orion.adp.wisc.edu/bcornet1/ , ignore that too. If you think there are only a few UFO sightings which have occurred this year, please don't look up the National UFO Reporting Center at: http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr or the sightings in Colorado: http://www.netzone.com/~gilgash/ufoovni.htm. However, I am quite sure there will be others out there reading this that may take a look at some of these things for themselves and perhaps view them a bit more open-mindedly. Oh, I almost forgot: If someone says there is a strong possibility we may have proof that life existed on Mars, http://www.enterprisemission.com , be sure to remain on earth, stay in your home, close your eyes and absolutely do not read 'The McDaniel Report Newsletter' "MARS ANOMALY RESEARCH ... Copyright 1966" Website http://www.mcdanielreport.com/manchstr.htm. As a matter of fact, put your head back under the ground and pretend it none of it exists except that which you wish to focus upon. Obviously you and your group are right; IFOs and psychology solve everything and *everyone* in the USA is unscientific, paranoid and incapable of analyzing anything. It is unfortunate that when *some* of us do present solid research and evidence on topics such as..."How we got to where we are in Ufology today and the fact that UFO *craft* have been documented as existing, and that the Air Force probably knows a lot more about it than they have told us,"...*others* of us fail to read it, analyze it, and intelligently comment on same for whatever reasons of their own. One of those reasons, aptly demonstrated within the essay being commented upon herein, would seem to be because at least one of those *others* firmly believes; "It is perhaps in USsia(the USA)that you find the biggest concentration of psychiatric cases by square centimetres!!" and that in the USA they have; "Flyingsaucerologists crying for "government cover-up"; and all that SHIT!" Unfortunately, not only does your presentation of "low class language" leave a great deal to be desired but the crux of your sentiments totally ignore the solid data that has been presented, both via this mail list and in other forums as well. It is also apparent that same *other* feels that if we don't conform to the parameters which his group has unilaterally dictated, (i.e. sticking to IFOs & psychological explanations for sightings) *we* should therefore be belittled and called names. Again, this certainly is one's inalienable right. (No pun intended) However, in fair return, don't expect this researcher to respect you or your writing either. By the way, few people on this planet are identical therefore, why should they have to think identically? So, what is wrong with having two or a thousand distinct directions in which we go? We do not have to agree. Our ability to think in millions of different directions enables us to survive as a species. Some of us, by chance alone, have to be right and eventually find a solid, true path. To give one example of solid research presented but obviously ignored by your group: This researcher wrote a response to James Oberg, NASA in which Mr. Oberg used misinformation and innuendo in an attempt to diminish the impact and importance of astronaut Gordon Cooper's statements regarding UFOs, while generally slandering various other important UFO researchers and their lifelong research, including people such as J. Allen Hynek and James McDonald. The Oberg/Cooper series thoroughly detailed the reasons for that "government cover-up cry." (Located in O/C rebuttals 2-5) That same series began by explaining that a UFO symposium was petitioned and held at the United Nations because those sightings were and are "worldwide" in scope. The series more than adequately demonstrated they were not just a product of someone's imagination, balloons, etc. (O/C.1a,b & 2) It did this by detailing some highly important findings in the research of Drs. Hynek & McDonald. Incidentally, copies of the Oberg/Cooper series can, by anyone's request, either be mailed directly to your emailer or, reposted to this mail list if the requests become too numerous. :-) Since James Oberg's essays were posted worldwide, this researcher can only wonder why the author of "--FLYING-SAUCEROLOGY IN EUROPE ...." did not respond with his own *specifics* to Mr. Oberg's slanders or comment on my responses to same instead of wasting his time in generalized complaining and USA bashing? Instead, how about giving us one really good explanation concerning the unidentified object, detailed in Oberg/Cooper.2, that most of us can agree upon? If UFOs are merely IFOs and psychologically based, you should be able to do this with little effort. I, and others who read my previous post concerning "Skything 1960" await your response. (Other skeptics are welcome to give him some help!) Furthermore, if one has some solid research to contribute or wishes to help us analyze that which is being discussed on this list, by all means we welcome your participation. There are people here, diligently at work, attempting to analyze the pros & cons of some of the very things discussed in your essay. However, to put it bluntly, either respect us, or get off this list. This particular Internet list is one forum out of thousands in a worldwide network where hopefully, intelligent minds from around the world can meet together to discuss topics important to all, in this case, UFOs. This researcher presently respects the majority of the people contributing to this mail list. However, this researcher also finds it difficult to have any meaningful discourse with anyone who makes blanket statements of disrespect towards my country. Stick to the facts of specific cases and stop trying to muddy the waters with your unnecessary emotional baggage. (By the way, in net language, capitals, when used in places other than titles, etc. mean you are screaming. Most of the people on this list refrain from doing this as it gets in the way of intelligent discourse.) One example to which I am referring. You wrote: "And Europeans tend to think of USsians as GULLIBLE, NAIVE, SUPERFICIAL, HYSTERICAL, ARROGANT, PARANOID and fascist people, unable to see farther than the end of their nose and to detach themselves from the face value of things." JC: I know there are certainly Europeans out there who do not share these above sentiments. The intelligent ones, and there are many, will look at how we are each presenting ourselves, and decide for themselves. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net P.S. I wish to thank Ed Stewart from the bottom of my heart for the gracious opportunity he afforded me to once again draw attention to material from the Oberg/Cooper series. I am hopeful that many of the negative views expressed therein are not his own, as his own research is usually posted in a much more dignified and intelligent setting than this, his most recent posting. P.P.S Ed, exactly why did you post this entire piece? P.P.P.S Happy holidays everyone!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Project 1947 - 'Project Sign Check-list - UFOs From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:22:48 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:55:04 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 'Project Sign Check-list - UFOs Here is some data from USAF Incident #5 on USAF CHECK-LIST - UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS. This form was originally classified cofidential. CHECK-LIST - UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS 1. Date 4 July 1947 Incident #5 2. Time 1305 3. Location Portland, Oregon 4. Name of Observer Kenneth A. McDowell 5. Occupation of observer Patrolman, Portland City Police 6. Address of observer Portland City Police Dept., Portland, Oregon 7. Place of observation Parking lot back of police station 8. Number of objects 5 9. Distance of object from observer N/S 10. Time in sight N/S 11. Altitude N/S 12. Speed Great Speed 13. Direction of flight 2 discs flying south, 3 in easterly direction 14. Tactics Dipped up and down in oscillating motion at great speed 15. Sound None 16. Size Large 17. Color Could not be determined 18. Shape Round - disc-shaped 19. Odor detacted N/S 20. Apparent construction N/S 21. Exhaust trails N/S - no visible means of propulsion observed 22. Weather conditions N/S 23. Effect on clouds N/S 24. Sketches or photographs None 25. Manner of disappearance Quickly - before any detailed observation could be made 26. Remarks (over) Officer McDowell stated that at approximately 1305, 4 July 1947 while he was on duty at Precinct #1 and feeding the pigeons in the parking lot back of the station he noticed tht the pigeons became quite excited over something and sluttered in the air. Officer McDowell in looking around to see what had disturbed them saw 5 large discs in the air east of Portland: two discs flying south and three discs in an easterly direction. He stated he could determine no color to the discs but advised they were dipping in an up and down oscillating motion and were traveling at grat speed. He was unable to give an estimate of the speed or altitude of the discs as they were out of sight before any detailed observation could be made. Officer McDowell advised that he notified the Police Radio who immediately broadcast an alert. He saw no indication of any motivating force nor heard any sound coming form the discs and could give no ddescription other than round. * * * * * Bloecher lists this as Case 231. The Air Force conclusion is the incident was caused by "chaff," also called "windows" which were aluminum strips used to confuse radar. The incident is found in Keyhoe, Ruppelt, Herald and Sidney Shallett's two part 1949 article in the Saturday Evening Post. The main source listed by Bloecher is Air Force files. In the HQ AF Public Relations File on UFOs it stated that Shallett was cleared to go to Wright Field and look at a book (notebook?) in which summaries of incident were kept. On Shallett's first trip he looked at one book. He requested to look at others. The request was approved, and he was allowed to look at the other(s). The PIO office cautioned Wright Field not to allow Shallett to see any TOP SECRET material. Until a short time ago I thought this might be just a standard warning and did not necessarily indicate any TOP SECRET UFO documents. Recently, we have found that there were indeed TOP SECRET documents on UFOs at Wright Field at that time. The PIO office was disappointed at Shallett's conclusion in the Saturday Evening Post and put in writing that Shallett was allowed to see the USAF files, but his conclusions were his own. The Incident files included items up to the classification SECRET. (BTW Please note that Project Sign used the term Unidentified Flying Objects. It appears that the first use of the term may be by the Canadians in early July 1947.) My theory is that these Incident Summaries are on the microfilm entitled Project Sign which Dr. Herbert Strentz received form LTC Quintanilla (sp?) when Strentz visited Project Blue Book. (I thank Barry Greenwood and Ed Stewart for the effort they went to make these microfilms available to me for research.) Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Skywatch: TWA and Philadelphia Experiment - From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:53:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:53:44 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: TWA and Philadelphia Experiment - East German judges please refrain from voting! ebk __________________________________________ From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL To: "(Mailing list)" <skywatch@wic.net>, "(Mailing list)" <skywatch@wic.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 04:05:15 -0700 Subject: Skywatch: TWA and Philadelphia Experiment - response ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Dave Briscoe" <oldwolf@cp.duluth.mn.us> To: <skywatch@wic.net> Subject: Re: Skywatch: TWA and Philadelphia Experiment Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 21:33:02 -0600 As a firm believer in releasing all classified government documents, a former Naval Intelligence member, a visitor of Area 51, and current researcher into UFO's, the paranormal, and someone who wants to know the truth, I have to agree with the information in this message. I was privy to some classified documents and secret government operations while in the Navy and after having talked to some friends that are still in the business, this information should not be disregarded as incorrect. Further, activity from the military to recover EVERY possible piece of wreckage to begin with was more than I thought they would do, but now............... Dave Briscoe oldwolf@cp.duluth.mn.us There is good reason to doubt a proposition if it conflicts with expert opinion. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 05:32:19 -0500 From: Ashley Rye <106064.3617@compuserve.com> Subject: TWA and Philadelphia Experiment To: SKYWATCH <skywatch@wic.net> Cc: Iufo <iufo@world.std.com> Make of this what you will. I found it in the sci.astro newsgroup. Comments, anyone? Ash -------------------------------------------------------- TWA FLIGHT 800 AND THE PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT -------------------------------------------------------- The real reason TWA Flight 800 was destroyed Pierre Salinger, respected journalist and former press secretary for the Kennedy Administration, was convinced to go public with a document posted on the Internet by a person "inside the Government" who has high level connections to the TWA Flight 800 investigation. The Document in question described the release of a missile from a Navy ship with an Ageis Missile system in a Navy exercise area off the coast of New York's Long Island in an area known as Warning area -105 I have information regarding the real information hidden within the document. I cannot reveal my idenitity for fear of endangering my life. Several witnesses on the night of the explosion, including the pilot of a New York Air National Guard plane, reported the sighting of "an orange streak of light" descending toward Flight 800. Some have speculated this to be a missile, others a meteor and some conspiracy people have suggested a UFO. None of the above of the true. The truth of this matter will be so startling that you will not believe it at first reading but you will eventually have to accept it as fact. The "streak of light" was an electro-magnetic-temporal ribbon that sliced through the atmosphere on the night of July 17th, 1996. This ribbon was created as a result of the conjunction of several top-secret government scientific experiments involving Einstein's Unified Field Theory (UFT) and the effects of high electro-magnetic frequency waves on portions of the atmosphere to warp into existence a rift in the space-time continuum . At 8:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, two large antenna arrays, the first one in the state of Alaska known as the High-frequency Active Auroral Research Project (H.A.A.R.P) and the second in Norway known as European Incoherent Scatter Radar site (EISCAT), were activated to study the creation of temporal anomalies in the Earths atmosphere by altering the magnetosphere of the Earth in a way to cause such intense fields of magnetic compression within an area to warp a rift into the space-time continuum. The purpose of the project was to create this rift to study Einsteins Unified Field Theory. Several sites across the Earth were selected for the creation of the rift in areas away from civilian centers and airline traffic. The target area was to be over the center of the Atlantic Ocean and was to be studied by top-secret Military Atmospheric Information Satellites (MAIS). Several other attempts at this experiment failed due to miscalculations within the internal sub-processors of at least three Cray 3 super computers stored at the H.A.A.R.P. site. Once the sub-processors within the Cray-3's were replaced and several maintainence and calibration checks were performed, the system was at full operation on the night of July 17th, 1996. The facilities of H.A.A.R.P in Alaska and EISCAT in Norway were simuletanously put into operation. Once the experiment was started the rift was created, it was only visible to the MAIS satellies and the American and Europeans Governments scientific personell stationed at H.A.A.R.P. and EISCAT. This experiment was a sucess until TWA Flight 800 intersected with an invisible "temporal axis" left permanently in place by two previous experiments by the U.S. Government to study Einsteins Unified Field Theory. If a line were drawn across the Earth to connect these two sites of previous experiments, one end of the line would end in Philadelphia Harbor in Philadelphia Pennsylvania and the other in Montauk, Long Island. Philadelphia Harbor was the location of an Unified Field Theory experiment on August 15th, 1943, known as the "Philadelphia Experiment". A Navy Destroyer Escort known as the U.S.S. Eldrige (DE 173) was outfitted with large electromagnetic Tesla coils for an experiment involving "radar invisibility". The first test of the ship was a success but a second test on that fateful day would prove fatal to many crew members who would man the ship. According to classified ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) files, the U.S.S. Eldrige underwent a dramatic change once the experiment was under way. The ship, was surrounded by a green haze of electromagnetic energy and the Eldrige vanished in splaying light into the space-time continuum. Echoes of the Eldrige were scattered all over the space time continuum both in the past and the future in the proximity of both high electromagnetic fields and temporal distortion fields. One echo appeared in the previous port of the Eldrige, Norfolk, Virginia. The ship re-appeared in Philadelphia with several crew members burned, some phased and combined with the super-structure of the ship and others who vanished or were able to walk through walls and one man apparently traveled through time to the year 1984 as you will see later. Several more echoes of the Eldrige have appeared since 1943 and would be significant in the events that followed later. A second experiment to study Einsteins Unified Field Theory took place in Montauk, Long Island in the summer of 1984. This experiment was mean to be an improvement on the original Philadelphia Experiment. This project would also have dire consequences that would endanger the Earth itself. The experiment was activated and in hyper-dimensonal space, which as no time what-so-ever, the effect of the Montauk Project intersected with the effects of the Philadelphia Experiment. A vortex was opened up between the years 1943 and 1984. An echo of the U.S.S. Eldrige appeared and vanished. One of the sailors from the Eldrige was stranded in the year 1984 at Montauk. According to scientists working on the Montauk Project, the vortex between Montauk and Philadelphia was staying open because it was still being controlled by the generators powering the electro-magnetic coils on the Eldrige in 1943. If the vortex had stayed open, the 1984 Earth would have been pulled into hyperdimensonal space and destroyed as it passed through the vortex and collided with the 1943 Earth. The sailor from the Eldrige was convinced to go back through the vortex to the U.S.S. Eldrige in 1943 and shut down the generators. He went back and destroyed several vacuum tube arrays for the circuity running the 1943 experiment. He then vanished, never to be seen again. Although the vortex was closed between Philadelphia 1943 and Montauk 1984, a permenant "temporal axis" was left between the two sites, stretching from Philadelphia, across New Jersey and across the Atlantic Ocean, just ten miles south of Long Island until it reached Montauk. Now we get to July 17th, 1996. As TWA Flight 800 was rising to 13,000 feet, it was also intersecting with this "temporal axis". At the moment TWA Flight 800 intersected, the trasponder was continously sending a signal to JFK International Tower, giving it's location on the Air Traffic Control Screens. This signal was at the exact same harmonic frequency as the temporal distortion caused by H.A.A.R.P. and EISCAT over the Atlantic. The temporal distortion became naturally attracted to the harmonic signal eminating from the TWA's transponder and "quantum leaped" from it's original site to cross the "temporal axis" at a 90 degree angle, at the exact point in which TWA Flight 800 intersected with it. An orange streak of light became visible as the temporal distortion appeared from it's quantum leap and then shortened it's length down to the plane from both directions. The rift tore through the plane, destroying the transponder and causing a massive explosion of molten metal that punctured the center fuel tank. This is why some witnesses say the streak of light came from above (the meteor theory) or it rose from below (the missile theory) and why there has been no evidence of a bomb, missile or mechanical failure. The first "booming" sound heard by witnesses was the temporal rift destroying the center fuel tank and the second sound was the wing tanks beginning to explode. The destruction of the center fuel tank caused the chain reaction explosion through out the fuel tanks in the wings while the plane plummeted to the Atlantic, killing all 230 people on board. At the exact same moment of the destruction of Flight 800, an echo of the U.S.S. Eldrige appeared on the Atlantic, 13,000 feet directly underneath the plane. The Eldrige appearance explains why there were reports of a ship in the area near Flight 800 and then discounted by the Government as conjecture by the media. There have been periodic after effects of this juncture with the most recent reappearance of the rift appearing near a Pakistani airliner on November 16th, 1996 while it followed the same path as Flight 800. The transponder of the Pakistani Airliner temporarily reactivated the temporal rift. The rift was activated again by a Canadian Airlines 747 on December 13th, 1996. The current news stories are telling us that there was a spark near an air conditioning unit (what the hell does air conditioning have to do with the center fuel tank anyways?) that set off the explosion, what's not being told is the "spark" the authories are not telling us about is the rupture in the space time continuum. This is the true story that needs to be told and the doors must be opened on the secrecy surrounding top secret Unified Field Theory projects before more deaths are caused. Let the truth be known. ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ---------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ---------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: skywatch | oldwolf |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Maltese 1977 UFO newspaper article From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:56:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:56:00 -0500 Subject: Maltese 1977 UFO newspaper article Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:46:01 +0100 To: updates@globalserve.net From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Subject: 1977 UFO newspaper article Hi, I'm attaching a scan (low quality unfortunately) of a 1977 newspaper article that shows 3 photos of 2 UFOs streaking across the sky. While not all that extraordinary, these photos have the "honour" of being the first ever UFO photos taken over the Maltese islands. Some background info on these photos and other Maltese UFO sightings can be found at http://207.167.67.197/local.htm ----- 25 June or September 1977 Witnesses : Raymond DeGiovanni and Charles Mamo Location : On a boat in the Grand Harbour, Malta Object : Bright, Luminous object with no distinct shape Sound : None Notes : The first ever photos of a UFO taken by a Maltese. The photos show two bright luminous objects which seem to move at great speeds, enough to leave bright, zig-zagging streaks on film taken at 1/250 th of a second shutter speed. These photographs were published in the Maltese language newspaper, It-Torca. ---- .-----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '-----------------------------------------------------' * MUFOR Web site: http://207.167.67.197/ * * TLP Database : http://207.167.67.197/tlp/lunar.html* * E-mail 1 : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * * E-mail 2 : mufor@waldonet.net.mt * * IRC channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * * Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. * Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * * Postal Address: P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '-------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------' --=====================_851633760==_ Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="port.jpg"; x-mac-type="4A504547"; x-mac-creator="4A565752" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="port.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAFmAiUDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAGwAAAgIDAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwQCBQABBgf/xABGEAACAQMCBQMBBgUCBAQEBgMB AgMABBESIQUxQVHwEyJhBhQycZGhwSNCgbHRFVIkM2KCBxYl4TRykvE1U2OissJDRHP/xAAUAQEA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/8QAFBEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A9SYe3GKD 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 'A Star Role for Kennedy Space Center' From: The Dr. Carl Sagan Honorary Site Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:42:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:42:14 -0500 Subject: 'A Star Role for Kennedy Space Center' http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/~mrapp/sagan/FloridaT.html A Star Role for Kennedy Space Center Breuse Hickman November 5, 1996 Florida Today CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. - Tom Hanks and Jodie Foster have stars in their eyes, and they're looking toward Kennedy Space Center. Both actors-turned-executive producers are shooting projects dealing with outer space, and they'll be using Brevard County as a backdrop for at least a portion of their works. Foster is scheduled to begin shooting the feature film "Contact" in January or February, and may require the use of 2,000 extras. The Warner Brothers production has already scheduled filming of launches at KSC - including the Nov. 15 launch of the shuttle Columbia. "Contact," based on Carl Sagan's novel, features the Oscar-winning Foster as a researcher who finds an intellgible radio signal emanating from a distant star. According to wire reports, "Contact" will be shot in New Mexico, Puerto Rico, Los Angeles and Washington D.C., as well as in Brevard County. Hanks also is expected to begin filming for his multi-part HBO series, "FromEarth to the Moon," beginning in February, but dates are tentative. "They (HBO Productions) are looking at locations and are obviously looking a lot at Kennedy Space Center," said Bonnie King, Space Coast Film commissioner. King has played a key role in securing Brevard locations for the filming of several productions. The TV show "The Cape" airs Fridays on WKCF-Channel 18 and is currently filming in the area. Cocoa Beach was a backdrop for the filming of Nickelodeon's "The Mysteries of Shelby Woo" in December 1995. And, portions of the feature film "Marvin's Room," starring Meryl Streep and Robert DeNiro, were shot in Rockledge in October 1995. The film is scheduled to open nationally Dec. 25. King says it's likely Foster and Hanks will shoot at various spots around the county. Filmmakers have been attracted to the Space Coast by its local landmarks and historical areas. For "Contact," about 300 local extras have been rounded up to stand and watch the next shuttle launch, now scheduled for Nov. 15. Ellen Jacoby, casting director for "Contact," said 2,000 extras will probably be needed when the brunt of the production is shot early next year. "I think we could find that many people (here in Brevard) who would want to be in the film," said King. "It would be fun. The whole town could close down and we could all go watch a shuttle launch." -----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Easy Listening from Space From: Jam! TV=20 Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:43:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:43:14 -0500 Subject: Easy Listening from Space http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusic/dec23_tesh.html Monday, December 23, 1996 Easy listening from space By MIKE ROSS Edmonton Sun =20 There are people who say John Tesh is an alien - and Tesh is helpless to do anything about it.=20 =20 No sane person would believe such a thing. Ergo, no case for slander. =20 The National Anti-Tesh Action Society (NATAS), reportedly based in Ferndale, Michigan, describes the former Entertainment Tonight host as an "interplanetary mole" intent on "softening up" the human race with his "mellifluous" new-age music. In June, NATAS picketed one of Tesh's concerts and distributed warning leaflets on car windshields. Tesh's publicist, Scott Seomin, recalls the incident: "We went outside and most of them scattered," he says. "They were afraid." =20 Tesh (jokingly?) admitted to picketers that he was indeed an alien and wanted to know how they found out. NATAS operative "Kenny Five" later told reporters that he thought Tesh was actually a clone trying to "hypnotize" him. =20 So all someone has to do to these days is cry "alien" (or "devil worshipper" or "Republican") and an innocent pop star is branded for life? It's unfair. =20 Unless he really is, of course. =20 No listing for either NATAS or "Kenny Five" exists in the Michigan phone directories. E-mail messages (the group has its own Internet home page) went unanswered. And Seomin says that NATAS hasn't bothered Tesh since June. Mysterious, don't you think? =20 Although no mention of Tesh's alleged extraterrestrial-ness can be found on his Internet site (www.tesh.com), it contains a telling clue. He recently staged a contest, asking fans to answer the question, "How has John Tesh changed your life?" in 25 words or less. The winner, Monica Rios, wrote: "John Tesh's music is like a breath of invigorating fresh air lifting my spirits and relaxing my soul. I experience a wonderful, indescribable sensation." =20 Just like a classic UFO abduction story. =20 Another clue can be found on the home page for "Ask Altog, the All-Knowing Alien" (you can get this stuff by entering "John Tesh, Alien" into your search engine). Altog, who appears to be the typical bug-headed, almond-eyed variety of alien, predicts that Tesh will become president of the United States in the year 2008, beating John. F. Kennedy Jr. "by a landslide."=20 =20 If "softening up" the human race with musical porridge is the true goal of aliens, an even bigger question arises: Are there more where Tesh came from? =20 Consider David Foster. The former Edmonton resident took his knack for musical polish to Los Angeles, where he is now the producer in demand. What do Chicago, Air Supply, Lionel Richie, Michael Bolton, Kenny G, Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston have in common? Aside from being part of FM 105's programming "variety," they have all worked with David Foster. It doesn't get much softer than this crew. =20 Tesh's 1995 album Live at Red Rocks sold 500,000 copies and went to No. 1 on Billboard's new-age music chart (yes, they have one for everything). Foster's work, on the other hand, sells millions. =20 Pop stars have always loved aliens. You can cite everyone from Thomas Dolby's Aliens Ate My Buick to Spacehog's 1996 debut album, Resident Alien. Brian Eno was writing spacey music long before Tesh became famous. Eno is also buddies with David Bowie, who during the '70s became "Ziggy Stardust," a glam-rock star from another planet. More recently, acts like Sheryl Crow, Foo Fighters, R.E.M. and Elvis Costello tripped all over themselves to get on the X-Files tribute album.=20 =20 However, "real" aliens aren't going to advertise too much, beyond playfully revealing themselves only to subscribers of Weekly World News or sabotaging Mars exploration missions. No, the threat is clearly from so-called "easy listening music" of the kind created by Tesh, Foster and the Windham Hill record label - wholesome fare sold by Wal-Mart and piped mellifluously into unsuspecting households across the globe. =20 Thankfully, there is a simple way to stop the invasion. Just as playing I Fought the Law and the Law Won over and over again caused Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega to surrender in a drooling fit of horror, rock music played loudly will save our planet from outworldly forces. Just tilt your speakers toward the sky and turn it up. =20 Remember: No sane person would believe this.=20 ----- CANOE home | We welcome your feedback. Copyright =A9 1996, Sun Media Corporation and Rogers Multi-Media Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: 'Backlash' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 11:01:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:44:12 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' > From: rfsignal@sprynet.com <Cathy Johnson> > Subject: Backlash > >Unfortunately, no one has come forward with any semblance > >of equipment in order to monitor the folks who have the > >dubious distinction of experiencing these phenomena on a > >somewhat regular basis. It seems that those who would > >otherwise be capable of amassing the where with all in > >order to begin some honest research in regards to these > >phenomena, would much rather make pompous statements as to > >what does and what does not constitute reality and then > >stick their collective heads in the sand hoping that it > >will all go away. The equipment to do this is not expensive. CUFOS, MUFON and FUFOR each, from time to time, have benefactors who could easily donate a few thousand dollars for the equipment. For a time FUFOR had a significant benefactor (Robert Bigelow) and I wonder if anybody made a presentation for him/them to fund electronic monitoring. Additionally, a number of larger metropolitian areas are already using electronic monitoring for pre-release convicts. (That means the equipment and procedures already exist and al one has to do is get 'into the system' to take advantage of it.) > Everyone is screaming for electronic monitoring and > vid-cams. Is this a joke? That won't yield any information > that cannot nor has not already been disproved. Anything > that has electronics, electromagnetic components, electrical > systems, including batteries, are only a few of the things > known to be affected directly by the proximity of a craft. > Those toys just won't work at all. That's simply wrong. Standard equipment operating in a standard environment is and can be expected to _consistently_ operate in a standard manner. If it doesn't, and if it consistently doesn't, then we've (minimally) shown that _something_ objectively physical has (repeatedly) occurred. This is an example of lack of evidence being evidence. We know how light is suppossed to behave in a near vacuum (like space) and we knew it would always behave that way. When it was found to behave differently that eventually led to one of the proofs for the existence of black holes. Even today we have no _yet_ found a black hole (because you can't yet actually find them.) But we've found discreet areas in space where we know something is because _everything_ _consistently_ behaves differently there. This type of evidence is still evidence. Right now we have no evidence that anything is happenning and its a huge leap to expect that a single simple series of experiments will take us from nothing at all to something extremely specific. If all we got from a series of simple experiments was the small step from nothing to something that would still be the biggest step achieved to date in abduction research. In other words, if we can place some electronic equipment, that we've previously bench tested and found to consistently work correctly and previously field tested and found to consistently work correctly, in an abductee's home and that same equipment then consistently (at regular intervals, etc.) fails to work correctly we _KNOW_ something is going on. (We also would know where, when and for how long. Depending on the type of eqiupment we might even get a clue as to how it stopped working correctly.) > And as for pictures, > well, we can make pictures say and do anything we please, so > that isn't any kind of proof either. The _best_ we could expect from photographic evidence is to have it survive multiple independent analyses and fail to be found hoaxed which is not scientifically the same as being found to be _real_. Unfortunately, the photograph (or the negative) is only physical evidence of itself and not of that which it represents. > We don't have the > technology available to provide an effective alternative > means of gathering irrefutable proof. We don't know that to be true. We haven't even tried yet so why would we assume it was true??? As I've mentioned above a negative result achieved through strict controls and procedure would in fact be a positive result. > Then what? Once we have the golden evidence, what > do we do then? Are we supposed to rewrite all of the > religions of the world? Why bother? There has already been some work done in that area, interviewing and polling religious leaders of various denominations, and they uniformly say that they feel they could control their flocks and that their dogma can accomodate _all_ God's creature regardless of their planet of origin. > Are supposed to make new laws to > include aliens as equal citizens etc? Equal citizens!? Sure, and while we're at it we may have to write some laws so that we can jail them as they await trial for the crimes they have committed. (It doesn't seem reasonable to me that we could release them on their own recognizance). > What about all of the > other stuff about our precious world that would change as a > direct result of that proof? Actually, very little would change in the short or even long term. Many things, most things, would go on about as they do now. Certainly most of us would still have to get up the next day and go to work. Goods and services would still have to be designed, manufactured, delivered, billed and paid for. The grass won't magically stop growing and the snow won't magically shovel itself...<grin> Two things would change. In the short term the world between our ears would change significantly. In the _very_ long term our societies would change and as a result our politics and economics would change because we would _have_ to project ourselves into space and that is a big and expensive project. > I am certain no aliens would allow humans to > condescendly accept them as equal in anything. We have humans who think the same and we still get by fine. > They still > are debating whether humanity as a species is even worth > considering as a sentient lifeform. They can debate all they want. If they weren't such wusses they'd show themselves and let us get our two cents into the debate <grin>. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 The Puzzle of Conscious Experience From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:00:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 12:45:17 -0500 Subject: The Puzzle of Conscious Experience The Puzzle of Conscious Experience Neuroscientists and others are at last plumbing one of the most profound mysteries of existence. But knowledge of the brain alone may not get them to the bottom of it by David J. Chalmers (Scientific American, ISSN 0036-8733, Copyright 1995 by Scientific American, Inc., 451 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10017-1111.) Conscious experience is at once the most familiar thing in the world and the most mysterious. There is nothing we know about more directly than consciousness, but it is extraordinarily hard to reconcile it with everything else we know. Why does it exist? What does it do? How could it possibly arise from neural processes in the brain? These questions are among the most intriguing in all of science. From an objective viewpoint, the brain is relatively comprehensible. When you look at this page, there is a whir of processing: photons strike your retina, electrical signals are passed up your optic nerve and between different areas of your brain, and eventually you might respond with a smile, a perplexed frown or a remark. But there is also a subjective aspect. When you look at the page, you are conscious of it, directly experiencing the images and words as part of your private, mental life. You have vivid impressions of colored flowers and vibrant sky. At the same time, you may be feeling some emotions and forming some thoughts. Together such experiences make up consciousness: the subjective, inner life of the mind. For many years, consciousness was shunned by researchers studying the brain and the mind. The prevailing view was that science, which depends on objectivity, could not accommodate something as subjective as consciousness. The behaviorist movement in psychology, dominant earlier in this century concentrated on external behavior and disallowed any talk of internal mental processes. Later, the rise of cognitive science focused attention on processes inside the head. Still, consciousness remained off-limits, fit only for late-night discussion over drinks. Over the past several years, however, an increasing number of neuroscientists, psychologists and philosophers have been rejecting the idea that consciousness cannot be studied and are attempting to delve into its secrets. As might be expected of a field so new, there is a tangle of diverse and conflicting theories, often using basic concepts in incompatible ways. To help unsnarl the tangle, philosophical reasoning is vital. The myriad views within the field range from reductionist theories, according to which consciousness can be explained by the standard methods of neuroscience and psychology, to the position of the so-called mysterians, who say we will never understand consciousness at all. I believe that on close analysis both of these views can be seen to be mistaken and that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Against reductionism I will argue that the tools of neuroscience cannot provide a full account of conscious experience, although they have much to offer. Against mysterianism I will hold that consciousness might be explained by a new kind of theory. The full details of such a theory are still out of reach, but careful reasoning and some educated inferences can reveal something of its general nature. For example, it will probably involve new fundamental laws, and the concept of information may play a central role. These faint glimmerings suggest that a theory of consciousness may have startling consequences for our view of the universe and of ourselves. The Hard Problem Researchers use the word "consciousness" in many different ways. To clarify the issues, we first have to separate the problems that are often clustered together under the name. For this purpose, I find it useful to distinguish between the "easy problems" and the "hard problem" of consciousness. The easy problems are by no means trivial - they are actually as challenging as most in psychology and biology - but it is with the hard problem that the central mystery lies. The easy problems of consciousness include the following: How can a human subject discriminate sensory stimuli and react to them appropriately? How does the brain integrate information from many different sources and use this information to control behavior? How is it that subjects can verbalize their internal states? Although all these questions are associated with consciousness, they all concern the objective mechanisms of the cognitive system. Consequently, we have every reason to expect that continued work in cognitive psychology and neuroscience will answer them. The hard problem, in contrast, is the question of how physical processes in the brain give rise to subjective experience. This puzzle involves the inner aspect of thought and perception: the way things feel for the subject. When we see, for example, we experience visual sensations, such as that of vivid blue. Or think of the ineffable sound of a distant oboe, the agony of an intense pain, the sparkle of happiness or the meditative quality of a moment lost in thought. All are part of what I am calling consciousness. It is these phenomena that pose the real mystery of the mind. To illustrate the distinction, consider a thought experiment devised by the Australian philosopher Frank Jackson. Suppose that Mary, a neuroscientist in the 23rd century, is the world's leading expert on the brain processes responsible for color vision. But Mary has lived her whole life in a black-and-white room and has never seen any other colors. She knows everything there is to know about physical processes in the brain - its biology, structure and function. This understanding enables her to grasp everything there is to know about the easy problems: how the brain discriminates stimuli, integrates information and produces verbal reports. From her knowledge of color vision, she knows the way color names correspond with wavelengths on the light spectrum. But there is still something crucial about color vision that Man does not know: what it is like to experience a color such as red. It follows that there are facts about conscious experience that cannot be deduced from physical facts ab out the functioning of the brain. Indeed, nobody knows why these physical processes are acccompanied by conscious experience at all. Why is it that when our brains process light of a certain wavelength, we have an experience of deep purple? Why do we have any experience at all? Could not an unconscious automaton have performed the same tasks just as well? These are questions that we would like a theory of consciousness to answer. I am not denying that consciousness arises from the brain. We know, for example, that the subjective experience of vision is closely linked to processes in the visual cortex. It is the link itself that perplexes, however. Remarkably, subjective experience seems to emerge from a physical process. But we have no idea how or why this is. Is Neuroscience Enough? Given the flurry of recent work on Consciousness in neuroscience and psychology, one might think this mystery is starting to be cleared up. On closer examination, however, it turns out that almost all the current work addresses only the easy problems of consciousness. The confidence of the reductionist view comes from the progress on the easy problems, but none of this makes any difference where the hard problem is concerned. Consider the hypothesis put forward by neurobiologists Francis Crick of the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in San Diego and Christof Koch of the California Institute of Technology. They suggest that consciousness may arise from certain oscillations in the cerebral cortex, which become synchronized as neurons fire 40 times per second. Crick and Koch believe the phenomenon might explain how different attributes of a single perceived object (its color and shape, for example), which are processed in different parts of the brain, are merged into a coherent whole. In this theory, two pieces of information become bound together precisely when they are represented by synchronized neural firings. The hypothesis could conceivably elucidate one of the easy problems about how information is integrated in the brain. But why should synchronized oscillations give rise to a visual experience, no matter how much integration is taking place? This question involves the hard problem, about which the theory has nothing to offer. Indeed, Crick and Koch are agnostic about whether the hard problem can be solved by science at all. The same kind of critique could be applied to almost all the recent work on consciousness. In his 1991 book _Consciousness Explained_, philosopher Daniel C. Dennett laid out a sophisticated theory of how numerous independent processes in the brain combine to produce a coherent response to a perceived event. The theory might do much to explain how we produce verbal reports on our internal states, but it tells us very little about why there should be a subjective experience behind these reports. Like other reductionist theories, Dennett's is a theory of the easy problems. The critical common trait among these easy problems is that they all concern how a cognitive or behavioral function is performed. All are ultimately questions about how the brain carries out some task-how it discriminates stimuli, integrates information, produces reports and so on. Once neurobiology specifies appropriate neural mechanisms, showing how the functions are performed, the easy problems are solved. The hard problem of consciousness, in contrast, goes beyond problems about how functions are performed. Even if every behavioral and cognitive function related to consciousness were explained, there would still remain a further mystery: Why is the performance of these functions accompanied by conscious experience? It is this additional conundrum that makes the hard problem hard. The Explanatory Gap Some have suggested that to solve the hard problem, we need to bring in new tools of physical explanation: nonlinear dynamics, say, or new discoveries in neuroscience, or quantum mechanics. But these ideas suffer from exactly the same difficulty. Consider a proposal from Stuart R. Hameroff of the University of Arizona and Roger Penrose of the University of Oxford. They hold that consciousness arises from quantum-physical processes taking place in microtubules, which are protein structures inside neurons. It is possible (if not likely) that such a hypothesis will lead to an explanation of how the brain makes decisions or even how it proves mathematical theorems, as Hameroff and Penrose suggest. But even if it does, the theory is silent about how these processes might give rise to conscious experience. Indeed, the same problem arises with any theory of consciousness based only on physical processing. The trouble is that physical theories are best suited to explaining why systems have a certain physical structure and how they perform various functions. Most problems in science have this form; to explain life, for example, we need to describe how a physical system can reproduce, adapt and metabolize. But consciousness is a different sort of problem entirely, as it goes beyond the explanation of structure and function. Of course, neuroscience is not irrelevant to the study of consciousness. For one, it may be able to reveal the nature of the neural correlate of consciousness - the brain processes most directly associated with conscious experience. It may even give a detailed correspondence between specific processes in the brain and related components of experience. But until we know why these processes give rise to conscious experience at all, we will not have crossed what philosopher Joseph Levine has called the explanatory gap between physical processes and consciousness. Making that leap will demand a new kind of theory. A True Theory of Everything In searching for an alternative, a key observation is that not all entities in science are explained in terms of more basic entities. In physics, for example, space-time, mass and charge (among other things) are regarded as fundamental features of the world, as they are not reducible to anything simpler. Despite this irreducibility, detailed and useful theories relate these entities to one another in terms of fundamental laws. Together these features and laws explain a great variety of complex and subtle phenomena. It is widely believed that physics provides a complete catalogue of the universe's fundamental features and laws. As physicist Steven Weinberg puts it in his 1992 book _Dreams of a Final Theory_, the goal of physics is a "theory of everything" from which all there is to know about the universe can be derived. But Weinberg concedes that there is a problem with consciousness. Despite the power of physical theory, the existence of consciousness does not seem to be derivable from physical laws. He defends physics by arguing that it might eventually explain what he calls the objective correlates of consciousness (that is, the neural correlates), but of course to do this is not to explain consciousness itself. If the existence of consciousness cannot be derived from physical laws, a theory of physics is not a true theory of everything. So a final theory must contain an additional fundamental component. Toward this end, I propose that conscious experience be considered a fundamental feature, irreducible to anything more basic. The idea may seem strange at first, but consistency seems to demand it. In the l9th century it turned out that electromagnetic phenomena could not be explained in terms of previously known principles. As a consequence, scientists introduced electromagnetic charge as a new fundamental entity and studied the associated fundamental laws. Similar reasoning should apply to consciousness. If existing fundamental theories cannot encompass it, then something new is required. Where there is a fundamental property, there are fundamental laws. In this case, the laws must relate experience to elements of physical theory. These laws will almost certainly not interfere with those of the physical world; it seems that the latter form a closed system in their own right. Rather the laws will serve as a bridge, specifying how experience depends on underlying physical processes. It is this bridge that will cross the explanatory gap. Thus, a complete theory will have two components: physical laws, telling us about the behavior of physical systems from the infinitesimal to the cosmological, and what we might call psychophysical laws, telling us how some of those systems are associated with conscious experience. These two components will constitute a true theory of everything. Searching for a Theory Supposing for the moment that they exist, how might we uncover such psychophysical laws? The greatest hindrance in this pursuit will be a lack of data. As I have described it, consciousness is subjective, so there is no direct way to monitor it in others. But this difficulty is an obstacle, not a dead end. For a start, each one of us has access to our own experiences, a rich trove that can be used to formulate theories. We can also plausibly rely on indirect information, such as subjects' descriptions of their experiences. Philosophical arguments and thought experiments also have a role to play. Such methods have limitations, but they give us more than enough to get started. These theories will not be conclusively testable testable, so they will inevitably be more speculative than those of more conventional scientific disciplines. Nevertheless, there is no reason they should not be strongly constrained to account accurately for our own first-person experiences, as well as the evidence from subjects' reports. If we find a theory that fits the data better than any other theory of equal simplicity, we will have good reason to accept it. Right now we do not have even a single theory that fits the data, so worries about testability are premature. We might start by looking for high-level bridging laws, connecting physical processes to experience at an everyday level. The basic contour of such a law might be gleaned from the observation that when we are conscious of something, we are generally able to act on it and speak about it - which are objective, physical functions. Conversely, when some information is directly available for action and speech, it is generally conscious. Thus, consciousness correlates well with what we might call "awareness": the process by which information in the brain is made globally available to motor processes such as speech and bodily action. The notion may seem trivial. But as defined here, awareness is objective and physical, whereas consciousness is not. Some refinements to the definition of awareness are needed, in order to extend the concept to animals and infants, which cannot speak. But at least in familiar cases, it is possible to see the rough outlines of a psychophysical law: where there is awareness, there is consciousness, and vice versa. To take this line of reasoning a step further, consider the structure present in the conscious experience. The experience of a field of vision, for example, is a constantly changing mosaic of colors, shapes and patterns and as such has a detailed geometric structure. The fact that we can describe this structure, reach out in the direction of many of its components and perform other actions that depend on it suggests that the structure corresponds directly to that of the information made available in the brain through the neural processes of awareness. Similarly, our experiences of color have an intrinsic three-dimensional structure that is mirrored in the structure of information processes in the brain's visual cortex. This structure is illustrated in the color wheels and charts used by artists. Colors are arranged in a systematic pattern - red to green on one axis, blue to yellow on another, and black to white on a third. Colors that are close to one another on a color wheel are experienced as similar. It is extremely likely that they also correspond to similar perceptual representations in the brain, as part of a system of complex three-dimensional coding among neurons that is not yet fully understood. We can recast the underlying concept as a principle of structural coherence: the structure of conscious experience is mirrored by the structure of information in awareness, and vice versa. Another candidate for a psychophysical law is a principle of organizational invariance. It holds that physical systems with the same abstract organization will give rise to the same kind of conscious experience, no matter what they are made of. For example, if the precise interactions between our neurons could be duplicated with silicon chips, the same conscious experience would arise. The idea is somewhat controversial, but I believe it is strongly supported by thought experiments describing the gradual replacement of neurons by silicon chips. The remarkable implication is that consciousness might someday be achieved in machines. Information: Physical and Experiential The ultimate goal of a theory of consciousness is a simple and elegant set of fundamental laws, analogous to the fundamental laws of physics. The principles described above are unlikely to be fundamental, however. Rather they seem to be high-level psychophysical laws, analogous to macroscopic principles in physics such as those of thermodynamics or kinematics. What might the underlying fundamental laws be? No one knows, but I don't mind speculating. I suggest that the primary psychophysical laws may centrally involve the concept of information. The abstract notion of information, as put forward in the 1940s by Claude E. Shannon of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, is that of a set of separate states with a basic structure of similarities and differences between them. We can think of a 10-bit binary code as an information state, for example. Such information states can be embodied in the physical world. This happens whenever they correspond to physical states (voltages, say); the differences between them can be transmitted along some pathway, such as a telephone line. We can also find information embodied in conscious experience. The pattern of color patches in a visual field, for example, can be seen as analogous to that of the pixels covering a display screen. Intriguingly, it turns out that we find the same information states embedded in conscious experience and in underlying physical processes in the brain. The three-dimensional encoding of color spaces, for example, suggests that the information state in a color experience corresponds directly to an information state in the brain. We might even regard the two states as distinct aspects of a single information state, which is simultaneously embodied in both physical processing and conscious experience. A natural hypothesis ensues. Perhaps information, or at least some information, has two basic aspects: a physical one and an experiential one. This hypothesis has the status of a fundamental principle that might underlie the relation between physical processes and experience. Wherever we find conscious experience, it exists as one aspect of an information state, the other aspect of which is embedded in a physical process in the brain. This proposal needs to be fleshed out to make a satisfying theory. But it fits nicely with the principles mentioned earlier - systems with the same organization will embody the same information, for example - and it could explain numerous features of our conscious experience. The idea is at least compatible with several others, such as physicist John A. Wheeler's suggestion that information is fundamental to the physics of the universe. The laws of physics might ultimately be cast in informational terms, in which case we would have a satisfying congruence between the constructs in both physical and psychophysical laws. It may even be that a theory of physics and a theory of consciousness could eventually be consolidated into a single grander theory of information. A potential problem is posed by the ubiquity of information. Even a thermostat embodies some information, for example, but is it conscious? There are at least two possible responses. First, we could constrain the fundamental laws so that only some information has an experiential aspect, perhaps depending on how it is physically processed. Second, we might bite the bullet and allow that all information has an experiential aspect - where there is complex information processing, there is complex experience, and where there is simple information processing, there is simple experience. If this is so, then even a thermostat might have experiences, although they would be much simpler than even a basic color experience, and there would certainly be no accompanying emotions or thoughts. This seems odd at first, but if experience is truly fundamental, we might expect it to be widespread. In any case, the choice between these alternatives should depend on which can be integrated into the most powerful theory. Of course, such ideas may be all wrong. On the other hand, they might evolve into a more powerful proposal that predicts the precise structure of our conscious experience from physical processes in our brains. If this project succeeds, we will have good reason to accept the theory. If it fails, other avenues will be pursued, and alternative fundamental theories may be developed. In this way, we may one day resolve the greatest mystery of the mind. The Author David J. Chalmers studied mathematics at Adelaide University and as a Rhodes Scholar at the University of Oxford, but a fascination with consciousness led him into philosophy and cognitive science. He has a Ph.D. in these fields from Indiana University and is currently in the department of philosophy at the University of California Santa Cruz. Chalmers has published numerous articles on artificial intelligence and the philosophy of mind. His book _The Conscious Mind_, which elaborates many of the ideas in this article, is forthcoming from Oxford University Press. Further Reading _Absent Qualia, Fading Qualia, Dancing Qualia_. David J. Chalmers in _Conscious Experience_. Edited by Thomas Metzinger. Ferdinand Schoningh,1995. _Explaining Consciousness: 'The Hard Problem._" Special issue of Journal of Consciousness Studies, Vol. 2, No. 3; Autumn 1995. _The Nature of Consciousness: Philosophical and Scientific Debates_. Edited by Ned Block, Owen Flanagan and Guven Guzeldere. MIT Press (in press). -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: Carl Sagan From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:54:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 19:39:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > Date: Thursday, December 26, 1996 8:47 AM > From: HoustonSky@aol.com > Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:32:12 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:30:06 -0700 > > PLEASE! This business of blaming Sagan for the misery of > > abductees is BS and you know it Mike. He was not a Psychologist > > or any other sort of mental health provider. He had no contact > > or involvement with abductees. > Sagan may have not been a psychologist but that did not stop him from > "diagnosing" abductees. He did it most recently on NOVA's program on > abductions. Hi Rebecca! Yes, this is true. I will be the first moreover, to admit that I was deeply disturbed by what I consider his unfortunate commentary. I little enjoy being labeled delusional any more than the next person. What he and others of scientific discipline fail to recognize is that there exists enough evidence of something decidedly strange occurring to warrant some real research. Be that as it may, It was Sagan who expressed his opinions and not his family. Carl Sagan may be gone, but his family remains. They in this season of supposed joy and happiness, are suffering the untimely loss of a loving father, husband, friend and brother. Neither Julie nor myself see anything to gain by the punishment of those who loved him due to any of his expressed sentiments. The harsh reality is that he is gone, he won't be expressing his opinions right or wrong any longer. The time for debate unfortunately is past. The time to have taken up these issues with the man was when he was alive. His family cannot do it for him. I think that Carl Sagan recognized the overwhelming evidence that something decidedly strange is flitting around our skies and occasionally interacting with portions of the environment. It is unfortunate that he did not recognize the same circumstances when it comes to cattle mutilations and/or the abduction of humans. To date, there is no scientific evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, to link the strange occurrences of unknowns in our skies with the unquestionably strange incidents of human abduction. None! The same can be stated as to cattle mutilations. There is NO real evidence of any kind that these abductions are being perpetrated by 'alien' beings, most especially by those from across the galaxy. However, enough is occurring that I most strongly feel that it needs to be properly researched. The question remains however, by whom? As Vallee suggests, is this a scientific problem or one of intelligence? Julie and I both Sincerely hope that you and yours are enjoying a joyous and happy holiday season! Clarke Hathaway SouthWestern Artist and UFO 'buff'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Project 1947 - 'Southern Wings' Magazine From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:30:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 19:39:59 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 'Southern Wings' Magazine In the Wilmington, (NC) MORNING STAR, 13 July 1947, Page 1 There is an news story headlined: "YEP, THEY'RE REPORTED AGIN' Two High Point Pilots Report Seeing One Headed Over State" This is an Associated Press story from High Point, North Carolina datelined 12 July. Two pilots flying in a plane at 1000 feet about 10 miles south of High Point at 7:20 pm on the 11 July saw a "ball of fire,"..."a huge red object traveling at a rapid rate of speed,....they noticed a glare to the left of their plane. Glancing to their side they saw a huge object, round on top with a black band through the center, flying in a northerly direction at a rapid rate of speed. "'The bottom part of the object was revolving, and peridodicall burst of fire came from underneath as if from some sort of exhasust.' "...[the pilot] said when he noticed the object he swung his small, two place plane to the left in the direction of the 'thing' but that before he had travelled far in that direction, the object passed him and disappeared in a northern direction. The path it was traveling, he said, indicated that it was headed in the direction of Winston-Salem on a route leading between High Point and Thomasville, he added." Of course, first I would appreciate any research in North Carolina newspapers on this and other 1947 sightings. I do not have the original report, probably from the High Point newspaper. Any newspapers along the route of the object could contain additional information. Dr. Bullard and I have checked about over 50 North Carolina newspapers, but this is a state with large amounts of small newspapers. More important the two pilot witnesses, Ed Lewis and Dick Milsaps worked for SOUTHERN WINGS, a regional aviation magazine, as editor and writer respectively. One would expect that after this sighting by two staff members the magazine might have some interesting ufo accounts. Looking in the online catalogs of college libraries in southern New England, there appears to be no holdings of SOUTHERN WINGS in this area. I would appreciate if anyone could locate and check this aviation magazine for ufo stories. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: Carl Sagan From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:06:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 19:36:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan > From: HoustonSky@aol.com > Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:32:12 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 10:30:06 -0700 > > PLEASE! This business of blaming Sagan for the misery of > > abductees is BS and you know it Mike. He was not a Psychologist > > or any other sort of mental health provider. He had no contact > > or involvement with abductees. > Sagan may have not been a psychologist but that did not stop him from > "diagnosing" abductees. He did it most recently on NOVA's program on > abductions. He gave his opinion as did many others on the show. I saw it. That does not discount all the good he did is my point. In fact I thought there were some good points made on misuse of hypnosis on the show. I AM not discounting peoples abductions but I do believe there are Hynotherapists who have made some mistakes with clients that have resulted in faulty sessions. As a CHT I can tell you it does happen. Julie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 26 Project 1947 - Aviation Publications and other From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 16:15:28 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 19:41:04 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Aviation Publications and other Once you start on this reference kick, you never get off. We are also looking for the following references: NORTHROP NEWS, magazine of the North Aircraft Corp, 21 May 1952. The Lancaster, California REALTOR NEWS for 10 July 1952 has a reprint of a story from THE DESERT WINGS which contain sighting reports. I believe THE DESERT WINGS is the newspaper of Edwards Air Force Base. Would appreciate anyone who could get access to THE DESERT WINGS to check the 1947 wave. The Lancaster Public Library has been closed because it is moving to a new location. A non-aviation publication PEOPLE TODAY for 18 Jun 1952 also has a ufo story. This may be a regional magazine or a Sunday supplement. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 2/2 - The Scientific Context of the UFO/Abduction From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:39:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 02:20:31 -0500 Subject: 2/2 - The Scientific Context of the UFO/Abduction The average scientist falls back on a much more plausible psychological explanation for this rich diet of impossibilities. Memory can be biased or faulty; perception is ambiguous and unreliable; social pressures and social gain motivate convincing lies; hypnotists can influence susceptible witnesses. By relying on any one of these alternatives, the over-rich banquet of UFO-related phenomena can be dismissed as a combination of individual and social psychological aberration. When theory is overtaken by data. Pausing to look back just a few years to the time when physics was experiencing great upheavals provides an interesting perspective on the problem of interpreting UFO and UFO abduction data. After 1895 physicists could no longer use the mathematics of continuous physical displacements to model the universe. Quantum theory required what were then radical changes in assumptions about causality. Atoms did or did not emit radiation on a probabilistic, not a deterministic, basis; the basic constituents of matter and energy were either particles with wavelike properties or waves with particle-like properties, depending on how and when you measured them; position and momentum could not be simultaneously measured to any degree of accuracy; the state of a particle is only determined when you measure it, and that measurement also immediately determines the state of a related particle which is so far away that information cannot travel to it from the first particle. These difficulties do not mean that quantum theory is inaccurate; it is highly accurate. But, unlike relativity theory, it does not explain the universe in a classically deterministic way. One of the problems that physicists had in understanding and assimilating quantum theory was based on the fact that the interpretation of all measurement is wholly bound up in theoretical assumptions about those measurements. If the assumptions one made about measurement at the microphysical (quantum) level were classical assumptions, the measurements made no sense. Eisenbud (8) said that Ultimately, theory becomes so familiar that we hardly realize its importance in the interpretation of observation.... When theory fails, however, the familiar connections between its constructs and what is observed are broken. We must then return to naked observations and their observed interrelations, and try to build from them new and successful theoretical structures. The UFO community is faced with the same dilemma. The data of abduction research cannot be interpreted in a simplistic way as veridical descriptions of experience which fit our available theoretical framework. We are now forced to "return to our naked observations" and develop a new and comprehensive theory to explain the general tendency of these observations, and reduce the exceptions to a sufficiently small number to justify our confidence in the "naked observations and their observed interrelations." If we can build this confidence in ourselves, based on an adequate theoretical understanding, then we can certainly build it in at least the younger members of both the scientific public and the larger public who follow our investigations and our work with interest, but who are waiting for us to clarify our own understanding before committing themselves to accept it. I cannot, myself, overcome all of the obstacles to comprehension of the UFO phenomenon from a technical point of view. Explaining how people can be moved through solids and explaining UFO propulsion are beyond my competence. These observables clearly require a better understanding of nature than is provided us by current publicly available knowledge in the fields of physics and engineering. But with respect to the psychological phenomena, some comments to the general scientific public, as well as to colleagues in the UFO field, are in order. They concern the plausibility and current scientific status of various events which are described in UFO and abduction investigations. Some of these phenomena are by no means as empirically far-fetched as they might first appear to be. The psychology of some reported abduction experiences: Hypnosis and memory. Hypnosis has a long and colorful past, and has been, in its day, as controversial a scientific topic as UFOs are at present. It is still a controversial phenomenon. The most radical - or skeptical - view of the phenomenon is that it is nothing but acting, suggested by the hypnotist and willingly and knowingly carried out by the patient. On the other hand, there are many phenomena of hypnosis which are very unlike those which can be produced by voluntary acting. The removal of crippling hysterical symptoms with the aid of hypnosis was the clinical discovery which triggered Sigmund Freud's interest in the mental bases of what were thought to be neurological symptoms, and so led to the development of psychoanalysis.(9) A great deal of serious research effort has gone into the study of hypnotic phenomena, in an effort to determine to what extent there are genuine changes in consciousness as a result of the hypnotic process. The simplest description of the present evidence is this: hypnotic induction in a highly suggestible subject produces a mental state in which external instructions (the hypnotist's) can alter the subject's conscious mental content, to the extent that both memory of past events and perception of the current environment can be influenced in ways that cannot be duplicated by suggestion, unaided by hypnosis. It must be stressed that not everyone is equally hypnotizable. Highly suggestible people need less effort to produce the radical changes of conscious content which are characteristic of hypnosis, while some very un-suggestible people do not ever experience the extreme changes of conscious experience which characterize highly suggestible, deeply hypnotized subjects. Most of the controversy about the use of hypnosis in abduction research is over the question of whether recall facilitated by hypnosis is necessarily true. It is not. Extensive experimental evidence demonstrates that confabulation is as possible under hypnosis as it is in ordinary unaided memory; in some cases, while fluency of memory is increased under hypnosis, so is the inclusion of verifiably inaccurate recall.(10) However, as students of the UFO and abduction phenomenon already know, not all UFO abduction accounts depend on information gained through hypnosis. Frequently there is recall, even extensive recall, without hypnosis. Equally extensive experimental evidence demonstrates that hypnotic techniques can both induce and remove amnesia. When memories have been blocked either by trauma or by previous hypnotic instruction, they can be recalled by later, appropriate hypnotic counter-instruction. (11) It is possible to establish "hidden experience" in a hypnotically susceptible person so that a real experience is actually concealed from the experiencer until he or she is later instructed to remember it. This is a stock in trade of stage hypnotists: the person who is made to bark and run around on all fours, pretending to be a dog, will have no memory of that experience if instructed not to remember; the hypnotist may provide a cue for later recall of the following kind: "you will remember nothing of this session when you wake up, until I place my hand on your shoulder." The result is that the hypnotized person undergoes experiences which he or she cannot remember until later. So long as the hypnotist does not provide the cue, the experience is not available to conscious recall. Once the cue is provided, recall occurs. Imagine if a hypnotist were to say to a subject under hypnosis: "Under no circumstances will you remember this experience," and then simply disappear from the subject's life. (12) The hypnotized subject would have a gap in his or her memory. Careful questioning might reveal that he went to a hypnotist's performance; that he remembers being in a seat with his friends who encouraged him to go on stage; and then he came home. When asked to account for the show, or his part in it, he would be unable to consciously recall his own participation. There would be "missing time." Under these circumstances, a second hypnotic session with another hypnotist might remove the memory block and reestablish the continuity of experience and memory. Or alternatively, the experience might simply be recalled after a sufficiently long time. Since we know that hypnosis can be used to block experience from conscious memory, and since we know that re-hypnosis is one tool by which that experience can be made accessible to voluntary recall, therefore we also know that the recovery of blocked UFO abduction memories by hypnosis is not an impossibility. We do not know that the recovered memories are accurate; great pains must be taken to avoid leading the hypnotic subject, because hypnotically recovered memories, as mentioned earlier, are not necessarily more accurate than memories which are recalled unaided. Telepathy. Humans can transmit information telepathically. The empirical evidence for this is cumulatively overwhelming. Neither current psychological theory nor current physiological theory has an explanation for the data, but the data are sound. There is too little space here to review the history of experimental psychical research, which dates back over a century. The evidence for telepathy does not depend on trusting mediums, which is always a dangerous business. Starting with the experimental work of J. B. Rhine,(13) the experimental reliability and repeatability of telepathy has been established by many researchers.(14 - 16) For the most part, the experimental demonstrations of telepathy are statistical and relatively crude. The best of them involve remote viewing of complex scenes, which are then reproduced visually by the telepathic subject in more or less complex detail. Statistical analysis of the agreement between scenes and drawings, under experimental conditions which preclude collusion, cheating, or biasing the results, shows results that are sometimes quite striking and over the long run, far, far better than could be ascribed to chance. Therefore it is within the realm of current scientific knowledge to expect that information can be transmitted telepathically to a human being. The descriptions of telepathic communication made by alleged abductees are not, then, without a reference in human experience as defined by scientific experiment. Visual illusions. Virtual reality is created by using two or three- dimensional visual images which give the illusion of objects in space. This can be done with wide-screen sound and motion, it can be done holographically or it can be done stereoscopically. While holographic images currently lack solidity, they do not lack detail. Therefore it is within the realm of our current scientific knowledge to be able to construct an alternative visual reality (sound effects were accomplished long ago) which gives the illusion of solidity. This is already done cinematically, and large-screen projections like I-Max are quite convincing in conveying the experience of motion. Virtual reality is created in aviation simulators; its success is indicated by the fact that emotional reactions in simulated situations of danger mimic, if they do not actually duplicate, emotional reactions recorded in real situations of danger. Therefore the experiences of staging as described in the abduction literature are not without a reference in human experience as influenced by human technology. Hallucinations can be induced in an uncontrolled way through the use of psychotropic drugs, sensory deprivation, and hypnosis. Remember that hypnosis is a powerful hallucinogen. A subject under hypnosis can be made to react to hypnotically induced sensory experiences. The very suggestibility that defines the earliest stages of trance induction ("your eyelids are getting heavier, your hands are together and you can't move them apart, your arms are sluggish and you can't lift them off the chair") are all hypnotically induced sensory-motor experiences. Other, more complex experiences can be introduced by a skilled hypnotist. Therefore the induction of hallucinatory experiences, as reported in many abduction cases, is not unknown to ordinary human experience. Abduction reports include illusions, hypnosis and telepathy. The characteristic abduction experience described in books by Hopkins and Jacobs and in articles by Carpenter may include elements of telepathy, hypnosis, and illusion. An alien being communicates telepathically; using some form of close physical contact, the same being induces an altered state of consciousness in the human, and the human experiences ambiguous scenes either as a hallucinatory "virtual reality" or as hypnotically induced interpretations of real events in which alien actors play a role. As explained in the previous few paragraphs, this apparently implausible combination of experiences - telepathy and illusions or hallucinations - is by no means beyond the realm of human experience. All of the phenomena are known individually, and under certain circumstances can be induced or controlled by humans in other humans. The reliability of UFO and abduction witnesses. All of science is based on observation; and ultimately all science is based on human observation and interpretation of even the most sophisticated data from the most sophisticated instruments. It is instructive to remember that about one hundred and fifty years ago, science was being conducted with much simpler instruments, and may fewer of them; that natural science like that practised by Charles Darwin required a only notebook and a sketchpad; and that however complicated the mechanical or electronic gadget into which the scientist peers, the human observer is always present to interpret what is seen or recorded. If UFO (and UFO abduction) witnesses are intrinsically unreliable reporters, then all of the evidence is suspect, because it has been obtained with unreliable instruments, whose distortions or biases may be responsible for the seeming abnormality of the reports. As a case in point, Bartholomew, et al. (17) reported that a study of self- reported biographical material from 152 alleged UFO abductees or contactees demonstrated an incidence of fantasy-proneness which was higher than the population average. The biographical data used in this study were drawn from l6th-century sources as well as from current data, and no distinction was reported between what UFO investigators would recognize as contactees and more credible reporters of abduction experiences. But the best UFO and abduction evidence is not suspect. Spanos, et al.,(18) Bloecher, Clamar and Hopkins,(19) and Rodeghier, et al.(20) have made it clear that UFO reporters and abduction reporters do not suffer from psychopathology; therefore there is no a priori reason to reject their reports because their personality characteristics make them less reliable than other reporters of phenomena. Ordinary precautions have to be taken in obtaining reports about external events from anyone. Good reporters and good scientists know how to listen; how not to lead; how to encourage reluctant or emotionally upset witnesses without putting words in their mouths; and in general how to avoid biasing the source of the information they are recording. The same thing applies to extraordinary methods for obtaining data, like hypnosis. Proper use of hypnosis in the forensic field as well as the UFO investigation field is necessarily subject to stringent precautions. Good hypnosis data will be presented with evidence that appropriate precautions were taken; the work of Carpenter and Haines(21-23) is exemplary in providing evidence that the requisite precautions have been taken. Prior conditions for accepting the abduction phenomenon. Most of us take for granted something which our scientific colleagues have neither the background nor the confidence to take for granted: that reports of UFOs are reports of extraterrestrial vehicles. It is impossible here to go into the detail which supports this conclusion. When the evidence is assembled and presented coherently, it is overwhelming. It is rarely so assembled and presented. Classic works by Jacobs, Hynek, and NICAP on the extraterrestrial UFO hypothesis, which precedes the abduction phenomenon, are twenty years old. They are respected but not widely read, and certainly not known to the scientific world outside the UFO community. It follows that uncertainty about the existence of ET UFOs precludes acceptance of the UFO abduction phenomenon. If I'm not sure that ET UFOs exist, how can I accept the evidence for UFO abductions? In this case, the additional evidence about UFO abductions does not strengthen the ET UFO evidence; instead, the uncertainty about the UFO evidence weakens the acceptance of the abduction evidence. This is a classic application of what is known to statisticians as Bayes' theorem. The probability of some event, given supporting evidence, depends not only on the current supporting evidence, but on the prior probability of the event: in other words, how probable - before the supporting evidence - was the event in question. If the ET UFO evidence is either unknown or rejected, the prior probability that any reported experience has to do with UFOs is bound to be low. This immediately prejudices acceptance of the abduction evidence, because it is read in a context where the a priori assumption is that UFOs themselves are highly unlikely, and therefore so is a UFO-related explanation for the abduction evidence. The answer to this problem, to the degree that we can solve it, is to present the UFO evidence and the solid UFO abduction evidence together in an intellectual context-book, course, or visual medium - in which the UFO evidence establishes the a priori probability for the UFO abduction phenomenon. The tendency - certainly reasonable, in light of the importance of the phenomenon - has been for recent work to concentrate on the abduction phenomenon alone. But the extensive and well-investigated body of UFO cases deserve equal time with the abduction evidence, because the ET interpretation of the classical UFO data is the a priori basis for allowing an ET interpretation of the abduction evidence. CONCLUSION: A SYNTHESIS IS NEEDED So where are we? We lack certainty in dealing with evidence elicited by hypnosis or recall alone. We need corroborating evidence: other people's testimony to an observer being abducted (e.g., the Linda case), missing or found in a disordered state after a hypnotically recalled abduction experience. Or else we need corroborating physical evidence of an abduction: evidence that something has been around to confirm the abductee's report of being abducted into something. This is no more or no less than the kind of evidence we need to corroborate UFO reports. After all, a UFO report is no less a report of personal experience than is an abduction report. Even book-length compendiums of single or multiple cases need to respect the scientifically educated public's requirement that the methods of investigation be explained clearly enough so that the techniques can be both criticized and repeated by others. Understandably but unfortunately, the current practice (for obvious financial and personal reasons) has been for each serious and productive investigator to present his or her own findings in a maximally attractive public package, in order to reap the personal rewards for the effort made, since there are absolutely no academic or "establishment" financial or social rewards for being a conscientious and intelligent UFO or abduction researcher which would compensate anyone for the time and effort expended. There is now, however, both a place for and an intellectual demand for a methodological and empirical synthesis of current good abduction research, just as there is a similar need and demand for an equivalent review and synthesis of the past thirty years of UFO research. Such a synthesis would have to address the methodological issues raised in this essay, as well as the rich store of excellent abduction and UFO data which have been collected, weighed, and evaluated by the current generation of UFO and abduction researchers. REFERENCES 1. The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, Second Edition, Unabridged (New York: Random House, 1987). 2. Elizabeth Loftus. Eyewitness Testimony (Cambridge, Mass: Harvard University Press, 1979). 3. Gilda Moura, "A Transpersonal Approach to Abduction Therapy," in Andrea Pritchard, David E. Pritchard, John Mack, et al., eds. Alien Discussions: Proceedings of the Alien Abduction Study Conference (Cambridge, Mass.: North Cambridge Press, 1994), 485- 92. See also Loftus, I 95. 4. Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations [l776] (New York: Modern Library, 1937), 4-5. 5. John Garcia, "Tilting at the Paper Mills of Academe," American Psychologist 36, no.2 (1981): 149-58. 6. Thomas Kuhn, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (University of Chicago Press, 1962). 7. Abraham Pais, Subtle is the Lord: The Science and Life of Albert Einstein (New York: Oxford University Press, 1982). 8. L. Eisenbud, The Conceptual Foundations of Quantum Mechanics (New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold,1971 ). 9. Ernest Jones, The Life and Work of Sigmund Freud (New York: Basic Books, 1953), 1:226-230. 10. Jane Dywan and Kenneth Bowers, "The Use of Hypnosis to Enhance Recall," Science 222 ( 1983):184-85. 11. M. E. Miller and Kenneth Bowers, "Hypnotic Analgesia: Dissociated Experience or Dissociated Control?" Journal of Abnormal Psychology I02, no.l (1993): 29-3 8. 12. Or, as is possibly the case with some abductees, to reappear regularly and repeat the instruction. 13. J. B. Rhine and J. G. Pratt, Parapsychology: Frontier Science of the Mind (Springfield, Ill.: Thomas, 1957). 14. Charles Honorton, "Relationship between EEG Alpha Activity and ESP Card-Guessing," Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research 63 ( 1969): 36574. 15. William G. Braud, "Relaxation as a Psi-Conductive State," Bulletin of the Psychonomic Society 3, no2 ( 1974): 115-18. 16. H. Eisenberg and Don C. Donderi, "Telepathic Transfer of Emotional Information in Humans," Journal of Psychology 103 ( 1979): 19-43. 17. Robert E. Bartholomew, Keith Basterfield, and G. S. Howard, "UFO Abductees and Contactees: Psychopathology or Fantasy Proneness?" Professional Psychology: Research and Practice 22, no.3 ( 1991 ): 215- 22. 18. Nicholas Spanos, P. A. Cross, K. Dickson, and S. DuBreuil, "Close Encounters: An Examination of UFO Experiences," Journal of Abnormal Psychology 102, no.4 ( 1993): 624-32. 19. Ted Bloecher, Aphrodite Clamar, and Budd Hopkins, Final Report on the Psychological Testing of UFO "Abductees" (Mount Rainier, Md.: Fund for UFO Research, 1985). 20. Mark Rodeghier, Jeff Goodpaster, and Sandra Blatterbauer, "Psychosocial Characteristics of Abductees: Results from the CUFOS Abduction Project," Journal of UFO Studies, new ser. 3 ( 1991 ): 59- 90. 21. John S. Carpenter, "Double Abduction Case: Correlation of Hypnosis Data," Journal of UFO Studies, new ser. 3 ( 1991 ): 91-114. 22. Richard F. Haines, "Multiple Abduction Evidence - What's Really Needed?" in Andrea Pritchard, David E. Pritchard, John Mack, et al., eds. Alien Discussions: Proceedings of the Alien Abduction Study Conference (Cambridge, Mass.: North Cambridge Press, 1994), 240245. See also Richard F. Haines, "Novel Investigative Techniques," in Alien Discussions, 468-69. 23. Richard F. Haines, "Hypnosis: Problems and Techniques." Paper presented at the National Conference on Anomalous Experience, Temple University, Philadelphia, 1990. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Eyewitness Testimony From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:44:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 02:22:26 -0500 Subject: Eyewitness Testimony The Eyewitness Imperfect Interface Between Stimuli and Story James R. Reich, Jr. (The Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 17, No. 4, Summer 1993, Copyright 1993 by the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, 3965 Rensch Road, Buffalo, NY 14228, published quarterly with a membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.) The eyewitness is a link between an event that has taken place and the reporting of that event. In a real sense the memory of an individual is put to the test when a detailed account of what took place is desired. Eyewitnesses provide the support needed in our current legal system. Without their testimony many cases could not proceed and due process would become meaningless. Eyewitnesses' accounts are also the thread with which the fabric of a seemingly paranormal or other anomalous event is woven by the people who investigate or disseminate such claims. It is important, then, to have some understanding of how memory works and what might affect the recall of that memory after it has been recorded. The study of how people recall events was initiated at the turn of this century by the Harvard psychologist Hugo Munsterberg (1863- 1916). In his work he found that people tend to remember events as slightly different from how they actually happened. One of his experiments, conducted during a scientific meeting, involved an incident in which a clown from a passing carnival rushed into the room followed by a man with a revolver. There was an argument followed by a skirmish and several shots, after which both individuals left. The stunned audience was asked by the group leader, the only one there who had prior knowledge of the experiment, to write down all they could remember about what had just happened. Analysis of the information gathered showed that only one individual out of the forty present was able to recall the event with any accuracy. More than half of those present could manage no better than a 60-percent recollection. Recent research includes work on leading questions. Richard J. Harris (1973) asked questions using quantitative adjective or adverb pairs, such as "old/new" and "tall/short." The subjects in his study were divided into two groups. Each group was instructed to make as accurate a guess as possible in answer to a series of questions. For instance, one group was asked the question: "How tall was the basketball player?" while the second group was asked "How short was the basketball player?" Harris found that the group that was asked "how tall" estimated the height at about 79 inches, while those who were asked "how short" estimated the height at 69 inches. A full 10-inches - practically one foot - difference! Using the same pattern in a different question, subjects were asked about the height of an office building. The answers of those who were asked "How high was the office building" averaged a height of 26 stories, while those who were asked "How low was the office building" averaged only 13 stories - exactly one-half that of the first group. Other researchers have continued probing the leading-question phenomenon. Elizabeth Loftus asked individuals questions about their headaches and the products they used to treat them. The first set of questions asked were (1) "In terms of the total number of products, how many other products have you tried? One? Two? Three?" or (2) "In terms of the total number of products, how many other products have you tried? One? Five? Ten?" The responses to question 1 averaged 3.3 different products, while the responses to question 2 averaged 5.2 different products. The second key question asked was (1) "Do you get headaches frequently, and, if so, how often?" or (2) "Do you get headaches occasionally, and, if so, how often?" The "frequently" group reported an average of 2.2 headaches a week, while the responses of the "occasionally" group averaged 0.7 headaches a week. Loftus (1974) investigated the possible effects that leading questions may have on memory. The key to her research centered around an initial presupposition. For example, the question "How fast was the car going when it ran the stop sign?" presupposes that there was a stop sign. In reality, the stop sign may or may not have been there. If it was there, Loftus suggests, then answering the question may strengthen or enhance the experience by making more available certain key memory representations corresponding to the stop sign. On the other hand, if the stop sign was not there, Loftus speculated, then it may be treated as new information that could surface at a later time, when the stop sign could be remembered as actually having been there. Several experiments were conducted to see if this actually is the case. In the first experiment two groups viewed a film of an auto accident, after which they were to answer a ten-item questionnaire. The film showed a car that, after failing to stop at a stop sign, made a right turn. In order to avoid an accident the driver of a car in the oncoming traffic hit the brakes, causing a five-car bumper-to-bumper collision. A diagram was provided labeling the car that ran the stop sign as car A and the cars involved in the collision as B through F. Two key questions were asked. For one group the first question was "How fast was car A going when it ran the stop sign?" The first question for the other group was "How fast was car A going when it turned right?" the second question, asked of both groups, was "Did you see a stop sign for car A?" The results showed that 55 percent of those who were first asked the "stop sign" question answered that they did see the stop sign, while only 35 percent of those answering the "turned right" question answered in the affirmative. Loftus developed two hypotheses to explain this effect. First, when subjects are asked the initial "stop sign" question, this reinforces their memory of the stop sign and they respond at a later time with this reinforced representation. Loftus's second explanation, called the construction hypothesis, suggests that subjects use the presupposition in the initial "stop sign" question to reconstruct in their memories the existence of the stop sign. The importance of the construction hypothesis is that any type of information can subsequently be introduced into a person's memory using questions containing presuppositions, whether the presuppositions are true or false. Loftus's second experiment was set up to determine whether the construction hypothesis could be supported. In this experiment subjects viewed a 3-minute videotape excerpt showing a disruption in a classroom by eight demonstrators. After the video was shown, a questionnaire with 20 questions was distributed. The subjects were divided into two groups. Nineteen of the questions were similar. The one key question that differed was either (1) "Was the leader of the 4 demonstrators who entered the classroom a male?" or (2) "Was the leader of the 12 demonstrators who entered the classroom a male?" After a week the subjects were asked a new set of 20 questions with the key question for all being "How many demonstrators did you see entering the classroom?" Those who had answered the question counting the number of demonstrators as 12 thought they remembered an average of 8.5 in the video. While the group who had answered the question referring to 4 demonstrators recalled an average of 6.40. This experiment demonstrated that false numerical data can have an effect on an individual's memory. Loftus next wanted to find out if the same results could be seen when the false presupposition concerned something that didn't exist. In this experiment subjects viewed a short videotape of an automobile accident and then answered ten questions based on the accident. The subjects were divided into two groups. One group was asked the key question "How fast was the white sports car going when it passed the barn while traveling along the country road?" and the other group had the question "How fast was the white sports car going while traveling along the country road?" In fact, there was no barn in the video. One week later the subjects returned and answered ten questions about the accident, the key question for everyone being "Did you see a barn!" Of those subjects earlier exposed to the false presupposition that there was a barn 17.3 percent responded that they had seen a barn. Only 2.7 percent of those who did not have the presupposition in the original question responded that they had seen a barn. To explain this, Loftus described a theory of memory for complex visual experiences. In this theory there are two main processes. The first deals with the acquisition of data, and the second delves into the retrieval of that data. The acquisition can further be divided into two components. The first is the acquisition of the original experience. Clearly not everything that happens to us can be stored in our memory. The mind separates what is and is not to be stored by the amount of attention we give a particular object. If we go for a walk across a field, chances are we will let our minds wander a bit. Soon we find that we have covered a lot of ground. Immediately we wonder how we got where we are. Since we haven't focused our attention on the walk, nothing is remembered. The same kind of thing can happen when we are reading. How many times have you read a paragraph only to discover you have no idea what you have read? In order to acquire a particular memory we must concentrate on what it is we want to store. Once our attention is focused, the mind transforms the information into some form or representation that can be stored in the brain. This newly acquired information is not carved in granite by any means. It is subject to future alterations by a mixing of the actual event with subsequent or even prior information. This illustrates the second component of the acquisition process, the acquisition of additional information. It is at this step where leading questions enter into the picture and are able to distort the true representation stored in memory. The retrieval process will come into play at any time after the initial experience. Each time the event is brought into conscious thought there is a possibility of altering the original memory. The farther removed from the event, the greater the chance of an imperfect or distorted recollection. Recently, researchers have added to the understanding of why leading questions affect those who encounter them. Smith and Ellsworth (1987) indicate that the uncertainty surrounding the memory of an event is an important antecedent for the effectiveness of being misled. A clear memory is less susceptible to being fooled by leading questions. Memories of tangential details are more prone to alteration when leading questions are used than are more important details. Smith and Ellsworth also found that subjects accept leading questions more readily from those they think are more knowledgeable about the event or situation than they themselves are. For example, if a person witnesses some type of crime and the crime is severe enough, say an armed robbery, he or she will experience a lot of stress. Stress usually lessens the witnesses' ability to perceive the event (Clifford and Scott 1978; Loftus 1980). Later, when the police are trying to find out what has happened, they may ask questions that a witness feels he should know the answers to even if he doesn't: "About what time was it when the robbery took place?" "What type of clothing was the perpetrator wearing?" "Was he tall? Short? Fat? Thin?" If the witness is at all hesitant, the officer may probe with more specific questions, and the witness may be intimidated to answer using the clues that the officer is unintentionally giving. Officer: "Did it happen in the morning?" Witness: "I'm not sure, but I believe so - yes, it did take place in the morning." Officer: "Was he wearing a red long sleeved shirt?" Witness: "Yes, it was long sleeved. I don't remember the color." And so on. When one is interviewing a witness to an event, it is best to present oneself as being as much in the dark about it as the witness. Another area of investigation concerning eyewitness testimony is the apparent relationship between the accuracy of a witness's testimony and his or her overall confidence. Studies have indicated that nearly 40 percent of defense attorneys agree that there is a positive correlation between the accuracy and confidence of the witness. Although it was found in one study (Kassin 1985) that accurate responses were made somewhat more quickly than inaccurate responses, confident responses were made much more quickly than unsure replies. In other words, the less time it takes to reply, the greater the amount of confidence that can be attributed to the witness. But is this a valid assumption? Further experiments (Smith, Kassin, and Ellsworth 1989) have shown that there is little to suggest that confidence is a good predictor of accuracy, and relying on such a correlation may actually be misleading. For serious investigations into seemingly paranormal or other anomalous events, it would appear that the investigator should follow a few simple guidelines. First, he or she should determine how many other investigators have already had contact with the individual in question. If the number is high, there is a good chance that the original memory of the event has evolved into something a little different. This would only be natural and should actually be expected in most cases. The second guideline is that investigators should interact with witnesses in such a way that they are not intimidating. They should not be guilty of "tampering with the evidence," the "evidence" being the memory of the reporting individual. Lastly, the investigator should not be influenced by the apparent speed or lack of speed with which the individual replies to a question. A quick reply does not necessarily assure that it is an accurate or truthful answer, nor does a hesitant response mean it is an inaccurate answer. It's up to the investigator to use good judgment when conducting an interview. This may result in shedding new light on many paranormal claims. References Clifford, Brian R., and Jane Scott. 1978. Individual and situational factors in eyewitness testimony. Journal of Applied Psychology, 63(3): 352-359. Harris, R. J. 1973, Answering questions containing marked and unmarked adjec- tives and adverbs. Journal of experimental Psychology, 88:216-222. Kassin, Saul M. 1985. Eyewitness identifi- cation: Retrospective self-awareness and the accuracy-confidence correlation. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 49(4): 878-893. Loftus, Elizabeth F. 1975. Leading questions and the eyewitness report. Cognitive Psychology, No. 7:560-572. ____. 1980. Memory: Surprising New In- sights into How We Remember and Why We Forget. Reading, Mass.: Addison- Wesley. Smith, Vicky L., Saul M. Kassin, and Phoebe C. Elsworth. 1989. Eyewitness accuracy vs. confidence: Within versus between subjects correlations. Journal of Applied Psychology, 74(2): 356-359. Smith, Vicky L., and Phoebe C. Ellsworth. 1987. The social psychology of eyewit- ness accuracy: Misleading questions and communicator expertise. Journal of App- lied Psychology, 72(2): 294-300. James R. Reich, Jr., is with the Office of the Medical Examiner, Cook County, Illinois, and is interested in the psychology of reports of anomalous phenomena. Address: 7823 Westwood Dr., Elmwood Park, IL 60635. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Eyewitness Testimony and the Paranormal From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:32:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 02:16:50 -0500 Subject: Eyewitness Testimony and the Paranormal Eyewitness Testimony and the Paranormal RICHARD WISEMAN, MATTHEW SMITH, and JEFF WISEMAN [Richard Wiseman is the Perrott-Warrick Senior Research Fellow at the University of Hertfordshire, College Lane Hatfield Herts., ALlO 9A8, UK., researching parapsychology and deception; Matthew Smith is a research assistant at the University of Hertfordshire; Jeff Wiseman is a freelance writer who assisted in the experiments.] (The Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 19, No. 6, Nov/Dec 1995, Copyright 1995 by the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, 3965 Rensch Road, Buffalo, NY 14228, published quarterly with a membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.) --- Much of the evidence relating to paranormal phenomena consists of eyewitness testimony. However, a large body of experimental research has shown that such testimony can be extremely unreliable. For example, in 1887 Richard Hodgson and S. John Davey held seances in Britain (in which phenomena were faked by trickery) for unsuspecting sitters and requested each sitter to write a description of the seance after it had ended. Hodgson and Davey reported that sitters omitted many important events and recalled others in incorrect order. Indeed, some of the accounts were so unreliable that Hodgson later remarked: The account of a trick by a person ignorant of the method used in its production will involve a misdescription of its fundamental conditions. . . so marked that no clue is afforded the student for the actual explanation (Hodgson and Davey 1887 p. 9). In a partial replication of this work, Theodore Besterman (1932) in Britain had sitters attend a fake seance and then answer questions relating to various phenomena that had occurred. Besterman reported that sitters had a tendency to underestimate the number of persons present in the seance room, to fail to report major disturbances that took place (e.g., the movement of the experimenter from the seance room), to fail to recall the conditions under which given phenomena took place, and to experience the illusory movements of objects. More recently, Singer and Benassi in the United States (1980) had a stage magician perform fake psychic phenomena before two groups of university students. Students in one group were told that they were about to see a magician; the other group, that they were about to witness a demonstration of genuine psychic ability. Afterward, all of the students were asked to note whether they believed the performer was a genuine psychic or a magician. Approximately two-thirds of both groups stated they believed the performer to be a genuine psychic. In a follow-up experiment the researchers added a third condition, wherein the experimenter stressed that the performer was definitely a magician. Fifty-eight percent of the people in this group still stated they believed the performer to be a genuine psychic! These studies admirably demonscrate that eyewitness testimony of supposedly paranormal events can be unreliable. Additional studies have now started to examine some of the factors that might cause such inaccuracy. Clearly, many supposedly paranormal events are difficult to observe simply because of their duration, frequency, and the conditions under which they occur. For example, ostensible poltergeist activity, seance phenomena, and UFO sightings often occur without warning, are over within a few moments, take place under poor lighting or weather conditions, or happen at a considerable distance from observers. In addition, some people have sight/hearing deficiencies, while others have observed these phenomena under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or when they are tired (especially if they have had to wait a relatively long time for the phenomena to occur). It is also possible that observers' beliefs and expectations play an important role in the production of inaccurate testimony. Different people clearly have different beliefs and expectations prior to observing a supposed psychic - skeptics might expect to see some kind of trickery; believers may expect a display of genuine psi. Some seventy years ago Eric Dingwall in Britain (1921) speculated that such expectations may distort eyewitness testimony: The frame of mind in which a person goes to see magic and to a medium cannot be compared. In one case he goes either purely for amusement or possibly with the idea of discovering `how it was done,' whilst in the other he usually goes with the thought that it is possible that he will come into direct contact with the other world (p. 211). Recent experimental evidence suggests that Dingwall's speculations are correct. Wiseman and Morris (1995a) in Britain carried out two studies investigating the effect that belief in the paranormal has on the observation of conjuring tricks. Individuals taking part in the experiment were first asked several questions concerning their belief in the paranormal. On the basis of their answers they were classified as either believers (labeled "sheep") or skeptics (labeled "goats"). [Gertrude Schmeidler, City College, New York City, coined the terms sheep and goats.] In both experiments individuals were first shown a film containing fake psychic demonstrations. In the first demonstration the "psychic" apparently bent a key by concentrating on it; in the second demonstration he supposedly bent a spoon simply by rubbing it. After they watched the film, witnesses were asked to rate the "paranormal" content of the demonstrations and complete a set of recall questions. Wiseman and Morris wanted to discover if, as Hodgson and Dingwall had suggested, sheep really did tend to misremember those parts of the demonstrations that were central to solving the tricks. For this reason, half of the questions concerned the methods used to fake the phenomena. For example, the psychic faked the key-bending demonstration by secretly switching the straight key for a pre-bent duplicate by passing the straight key from one hand to the other. During the switch the straight key could not be seen. This was clearly central to the trick's method; and one of the "important" questions asked was whether the straight key had always remained in sight. A second set of "unimportant" questions asked about parts of the demonstration that were not related to the tricks' methods. Overall, the results suggested that sheep rated the demonstrations as more "paranormal" than goats did, and that goats did indeed recall significancly more "important" information than sheep. There was no such difference for the recall of the "unimportant" information. This is not the only study to investigate sheep/goat differences in observation and recall of "paranormal" phenomena. Jones and Russell in the United States (1980) asked individuals to observe a staged demonstration of extrasensory perception (ESP). In one condition the demonstration was successful (i.e., ESP appeared to occur) while in the other it was not. All individuals were then asked to recall the demonstration. Sheep who saw the unsuccessful demonstration distorted their memories of it and often stated that ESP had occurred. Goats tended to correctly recall the demonstration, even if it appeared to support the existence of ESP. In addition, Matthew Smith in Britain (1993) investigated the effect that instructions (given prior to watching a film containing a demonstration of apparent psychic ability) had on the recall of the film. Individuals were split into two groups. One group was told that the film contained trickery; the other group was told that it contained genuine paranormal phenomena. The former group recalled significantly more information about the film than the latter group. All of the above experiments were carried out in controlled laboratory settings. However, another recent study suggests that the same inaccuracies may exist in a more natural setting, namely the seance room. Many individuals have reported experiencing extraordinary phenomena during dark-room seances. Eyewitness claims that objects have mysteriously moved, strange sounds have been produced, or ghostly forms have appeared, and that these phenomena have occurred under conditions that render normal explanations practically impossible. Believers argue that conditions commonly associated with a seance (such as darkness, anticipation, and fear) may act as a catalyst to produce these phenomena (Batcheldor 1966). Skeptics suggest that reports of seances are unreliable and that eyewitnesses are either fooling themselves or being fooled by fraudulent mediums. The authors carried out an experiment in the United Kingdom to assess both the reliability of testimony relating to seance phenomena, and whether paranormal events could be produced in a modern seance. We carried out our experiment, titled "Manifestations," three times. Twenty-five people attended on each occasion. They were first asked to complete a short questionnaire, noting their age, gender, and whether they believed that genuine paranormal phenomena might sometimes cake place during seances. A seance room had been prepared. All of the windows and doors in the room had been sealed and blacked out, and twenty-five chairs had been arranged in a large circle. Three objects - a book, a slate, and a bell had been treated with luminous paint and placed onto three of the chairs. A small table, the edges of which were also luminous, was situated in the middle of the circle. Two luminous maracas rested on the table. Following a brief talk on the aims of the project, the participants were led into a darkened seance room. Richard Wiseman played the part of the medium. With the help of a torch, he showed each person to a chair, and, where appropriate, asked them to pick up the book, slate, or bell. Next, he drew participants' attention to the table and maracas. Those participants who had picked up the other luminous objects were asked to make themselves known, and the "medium" collected the objects one by one and placed them on the table. He then pointed out the presence of a small luminous ball, approximately 5 centimeters in diameter, suspended on a piece of rope from the ceiling. Finally, he took his place in the circle, extinguished the torch, and asked everybody to join hands. The medium first asked the participants to concentrate on trying to move the luminous ball and then to try the same with the objects on the table. Finally, the participants were asked to concentrate on moving the table itself. The seance lasted approximately ten minutes. Clearly, it was important that some phenomena occurred to assess the reliability of eyewitness testimony. The maracas were therefore "gimmicked" to ensure their movement during the seance. In the third seance the table was also similarly moved by trickery. Finally, we also used trickery to create a few strange noises at the end of each seance. All of the un-gimmicked objects were carefully placed on markers so that any movement would have been detectable. After leaving the seance room, the participants completed a short questionnaire that asked them about their experience of the seance. No genuine paranormal phenomena took place during any of the seances. However, our questionnaire allowed us to assess the reliability of participants' eyewitness testimony. Would participants remember which objects had been handled before the start of the seance? As the maracas were gimmicked, we had to ensure that they were not examined or handled by anyone. Nevertheless, one in five participants stated that they had been. This was an important inaccuracy as observers are likely to judge the movement of an object more impressive if they think that the item has been scrutinized beforehand. This type of misconception was not confined to the maracas. In the first two seances, the slate, bell, book, and table remained stationary. Despite this, 27 percent of participants reported movement of at least one of these. In the third seance the table was gimmicked so that it shifted four inches toward the medium, but participants' testimony was again unreliable, with one in four people reporting no movement at all. An interesting pattern develops if the results are analyzed by separating the participants by belief. The ball, suspended from the ceiling, did not move at any time. Seventy-six percent of disbelievers were certain that it hadn't moved. In contrast, the same certainty among believers was only 54 percent. In addition, 40 percent of believers thought that at least one other object had moved, compared to only 14 percent of disbelievers. The answers to the question "Do you believe you have witnessed any genuine paranormal phenomena?" perhaps provide the most conclusive result for the believer/disbeliever divide. One in five believers stated that he or she had seen genuine phenomena. None of the disbelievers thought so. This would suggest that while we are all vulnerable to trickery, a belief or expectation of paranormal phenomena during seances may add to that vulnerability. The results clearly show that it is difficult to obtain reliable testimony about the seance. Indeed, our study probably underestimated the extent of this unreliability as the seance lasted only ten minutes and participants were asked to remember what had happened immediately afterward. Although a minority of participants believed that they had observed genuine paranormal phenomena, it does not seem unreasonable to assume that these individuals might be the most likely to tell others about their experience. Our results suggest that many of their reports would be fraught with inaccuracies and it might only take a few of the more distorted accounts to circulate before news that "genuine" paranormal phenomena had occurred became widespread. In short, there is now considerable evidence to suggest that individuals' beliefs and expectations can, on occasion, lead them to be unreliable witnesses of supposedly paranormal phenomena. It is vital that investigators of the paranormal take this factor into account when faced with individuals claiming to have seen extraordinary events. It should be remembered, however, that such factors may hinder accurate testimony regardless of whether that testimony is for or against the existence of paranormal phenomena; the observations and memory of individuals with a strong need to disbelieve in the paranormal may be as biased as extreme believers. In short, the central message is that investigators need to be able to carefully assess testimony regardless of whether it reinforces or opposes their own beliefs concerning the paranormal. Accurate assessment of the reliability of testimony requires a thorough understanding of the main factors that cause unreliable observation and remembering. Research is starting to reveal more about these factors and the situations under which they do, and do not, occur. Indeed, this represents part of a general movement to increase the quality of the methods used to investigate psychic phenomena (Wiseman and Morris 1956). Given the important role that eyewitness testimony plays in parapsychology, understanding observation is clearly a priority for future research. References Batcheldor, K. J. 1966. Report on a case of table levitation and associated phenomena. Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, 43: 339-356. Besterman, T. 1932. The psychology of testimony in relation to paraphysical phenomena: Report of an experiment. Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research, 40: 363-387. Dingwall, E. 1921. Magic and mediumship. Psychic Science Quarterly, 1 (3): 206-219. Hodgson, R., and S. J. Davy. 1887. The possibilities of mal- observation and lapse of memory from a practical point of view. Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research, 4:381-495. Jones, W H. and D. Russell. 1980. The selective processing of belief disconfirming information. European Journal of Social Psychology 10:309-312. Smith, M. D. 1993. The effect of belief in the paranormal and prior set upon the observation of a 'psychic' demonstration. European Journal of Parapsychology; 9:24-34. Singer, B. and V A. Benassi. 1980. Fooling some of the people all of the time. SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, Winter:17-24. Wiseman, R. J. and R. L. Morris. 1995a. Recalling pseudo-psychic demonstrations. British Journal of Psychology: 86:113-125. _______. 1995b. Guidelines for Testing Psychic Claimants. Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 1/2 - The Scientific Context of the UFO/Abduction From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:38:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 02:19:08 -0500 Subject: 1/2 - The Scientific Context of the UFO/Abduction THE SCIENTIFIC CONTEXT OF THE UFO/ABDUCTION PHENOMENON BY DON C. DONDERI [Don Donderi is Associate Professor of Psychology at McGill University, Montreal, Canada. His basic research interests include human perception and memory, and his applied work is in the field of human factors and ergonomics. He is a principal of Human Factors North, Inc., a Toronto-based ergonomics consulting firm.] (IUR, International UFO Reporter, Spring 1996, Volume 21, Number 1; Copyright 1996 by the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, 2457 West Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659, published bimonthly with a subscription rate of $25/yr.) --- The purpose of this essay is to explain how to clarify the evidence for or against the reality of UFO abductions. Many workers in this field have modified the conventional meaning of both the word "reality" and the word "abduction." I do not accept these modifications. A UFO abduction, if it occurs, is a physical event. A person is taken aboard an extraterrestrial spacecraft and interacts with its crew. If this event is imagined, then it is not a physical event, it is an imaginary one. If the event happened before and it is being relived in the present, then it is a re-experiencing, not an abduction. There is nothing wrong with either imagining or memory as a description of human experience. A re-experiencing is clearly evidence for an earlier abduction, if it can be separated from an imagining, which is based on the incorporation of other people's experience (through conversation, books, or films) into one's own experience. But in no case is an imagining evidence of an abduction. By misusing the descriptive categories of language, and calling imaginings and re-experiencing "abduction reports," confusion is produced which can only bring the substantial evidence for the physical reality of UFO abductions into doubt. THE ABDUCTION REPORT What is the UFO abduction phenomenon? To abduct means to "carry off or lead away (a person) illegally and in secret or by force, esp. to kidnap."(1) Anyone who reports that he or she has been carried away by force is reporting an abduction. Since we are obviously only concerned with abductions by nonhuman extraterrestrials, the carrying-away must be reported as done by nonhuman extraterrestrials. Evidence for the non-humanness of the abductors comes from the appearance of the abductors, the tools they use, including the methods of enforcing the abduction, the things they do, and the locations to which the abductee is taken. If none of these are nonhuman, then we are talking about an abduction experience, but one which can be explained as caused by humans. "Abduction phenomenon" in this essay means the abduction of humans by nonhuman extraterrestrials as described here. False, imagined, and real experiences. The second problem in discussing the abduction phenomenon is to evaluate the source of the reports. I am perfectly capable of reporting an abduction experience on the basis of my accumulated knowledge. I know enough background material to report an experience which would match very closely other reports made by reliable witnesses. Why wouldn't my report be valid? Because, of course, it was fabricated out of my indirect experience, as communicated to me by conversations, books, films, and television, and not my direct experience; that is, through my own senses without the intermediary of other humans' spoken, written, or visually portrayed experience. Anyone can report an abduction experience. Our problem is to learn whether these reports are reports of direct personal experience or whether the reports are mediated by the experience of others. If they are mediated by the experience of others, they are worthless as evidence of the existence of UFO abductions. They are simply repetitions of other people's stories, however convincing either to the listener or (as is often the case) to the teller. There is no a priori reason why the reporter of an abduction experience which is entirely mediated by other people's experiences may not also report that he or she believes that the experience was direct and un-mediated. It is very well established that people reporting experiences do not always accurately attribute the source of those experiences.(2) Spoken or written language, as well as the visual media, are efficient ways of conveying information which may be incorporated indiscriminately into what the reporter thinks is his or her own direct sensory experience. The human mind is efficient at generating and storing images or representations of experience, and inefficient at retaining and classifying the sources of those same images or representations. Suggestible human beings often mistake the sources of their information, and they are demonstrably capable of reporting as personal experience events and experiences which have been suggested to them by others. The properly skeptical public. In ordinary conversation, in the give-and-take on a sunny afternoon by the lake, or of a dinner party with good wine flowing, we do not always - or even often - critically examine the sources of our ideas, or of our conversational bons mots. Why should we expect something more critical, more detached, from the investigators and reporters of abductions? Simply because so much more is at stake. Our real audience is not the lake-side or dinner-table conversationalists. If the purveyors of ideas about UFO abductions want to be treated as entertaining lake-side conversationalists, or as slightly outre dinner-table companions, then we can all go on as before. Some of what we say will be based on what we know are the reports of reliable witnesses, corroborated by circumstances: missing time, physical traces, concurrent UFO sightings. Other reports, whether in the National Enquirer or in our own publications, will be ambiguous and lend themselves to alternative interpretations. The greater public will get some of both kinds of reports, and will be, as always, puzzled about what to believe. The scientific public will say to itself: "X has written two books full of interesting information about abductions and UFOs. X writes with obvious integrity, and the phenomenon sounds plausible. But Y includes as abductions reports from people who sit in a trance and stare at the ceiling, and then describe the same kind of things X is describing. Isn't the obvious explanation to assume that both X and Y's reports have the same epistemological status - the same grounding in reality - and that Y's are the more representative, because they require the least deviation from present knowledge? Witness Z is obviously imagining things, and abduction investigator Y reports Z's imaginings as abductions. Therefore, abduction investigators are reporting what people imagine, not what actually happens to them." The leaps of reason in my imaginary quote above are not logically convincing, but they are psychologically very convincing. Just because one abduction report (A) is imaginary (i) does not mean that all A's are (i). But if you are predisposed to reject more complicated explanations, and are predisposed not to change your world-view on the basis of what the UFO research community is claiming, than your reasoning process is: Some A's are certainly i. I cannot look into all of the A cases, and if I have found one i case among them, I can say that because I have shown that at least one A is i, most-or all-of them might he. And with this very big "might be," I escape the need to change my world-view, because I can subsume my simpler world-view under the "might be" of the imaginary abduction report. Therefore I will defer judgment, or, more conservatively, not change my world-view in the absence of a more convincing reason to do so. I think it helps to make this problem specific because it explains what the UFO and abduction community is up against when it seeks to persuade the rest of the world - our lake-side and dinner-party neighbors and companions, as well as the even more skeptical scientific public - that what we have to say should be taken seriously. We have to decide what we are trying to convince people of. We know, and they know, that people report abduction experiences. If in the interest of accommodating every abduction reporter we decide to treat all reports equally, whether or not there is corroborative evidence that there was a physical abduction by extraterrestrials, then our public will nod politely and discount virtually everything we have to say. They will, quite reasonably, consider a11 abduction reports as evidence of, at most, an interesting psychological aberration or phenomenon. What are we to think of an abduction case in which the alleged abductee is observed to be present during the entire time she experiences an abduction? The evidence in this case is unambiguous. The investigators who reported the case were present during the time the woman had the experience, and she didn't budge. There was no missing time, and there were no abduction corollaries - UFO sightings or physical aftereffects. The answer least in need of supplementary explanation is that the woman wasn't abducted. There is no reason to think that she may not have been reexperiencing a past abduction - the most generous of hypotheses - but by any objective criterion she was not experiencing a physical abduction and the report of her experience made by the investigators was the report of a psychological experience, not a physical one. In my already-expressed opinion, this case should not have been presented as an abduction report.(3) Abduction researchers should screen abduction reports into those which are probably based on direct sensory experience, and those which are probably based on experience mediated by human language or media. It is clear from the proceedings of the 1992 Abduction Conference at M.I.T. that not a11 abduction researchers want to do that. And it's a free world: there is nothing to stop them from using whatever inclusive categories they choose to use in defining abductions. My point is simply that this inclusiveness mitigates against anyone with common sense and no access to the original data from taking the abduction phenomenon seriously. Those of us who are better informed can sort the bad cases out for ourselves; but our friends and colleagues in the general and scientific public can't. We should be doing it for them. If we don't, we suffer the inevitable diminishing of our credibility. SCIENCE AND THE UFO/ABDUCTION PHENOMENON There is a great reluctance on the part of some investigators to stick to a scientific approach to the abduction phenomenon. The argument runs something like this. Our systematic understanding of nature is severely limited; science doesn't even explain many things about inanimate nature, other animals, or the human mind. Not only that, but the technical or scientific approach to the mastery and understanding of nature has led mankind into grievous errors which threaten to destroy the species if not the planet. Therefore, we should abandon science in dealing with this new phenomenon, particularly since it is so far beyond our comprehension as to make the idea of a scientific theory to explain UFOs or abductions meaningless. We can't really decide whether the phenomenon is mental or physical; even calling it physical is meaningless because the mental and the physical are so completely intermixed that separating them, in this instance, is almost impossible. Much of this argument rests on a very generalized incomprehension of what science means, and an even greater incomprehension about the science of psychology. First of all, science is a method as much as it is a collection of facts and theories. It is also a very complex social process. Boiled down to its essence, the scientific method is a prescription that evidence about nature must be presented in a form that explains how it was obtained, makes it possible for other people to review and criticize the methods used for gathering the evidence, and to repeat those methods and obtain the same evidence, so far as is practical. It is a social agreement to be honest and transparent in presenting data, and to engage in a mutual (sometimes highly competitive) effort to cross-check, criticize, and ultimately verify the information on which we base our advances in understanding nature. The scientific enterprise. Our technological world is built from complex, true stories that describe the natural world. How do we know that the stories are true? The natural world works the same way for a Russian engineer as it does for an American scientist. Bridges designed in France will stand in China; airplanes made in America will also fly over Brazil or over Australia. There is a consensus about our nature stories, at least so far as we can carry them. The civilized machinery of scientific education, scientific research, and scientific communication shapes a community of knowledge whose products are everywhere and whose methods are universal. Unfortunately, many of the scientific nature stories are unintelligible to the lay person, who hasn't learned the mathematical methods and doesn't have the knowledge or the vocabulary to understand them. Because science is also divided into very narrow specialties, many scientific nature stories are equally unintelligible to scientists in other specialties. Most scientists aren't as successfully gregarious as the physicist Ernest Rutherford, who is supposed to have said, "If you can't explain it to the barmaid in the Eagle Pub, it isn't good science." Even nature stories which fall into the category of "classical" science, like the time-travel paradoxes of Einstein's theory of special relativity, seriously challenge both the lay and the scientific imagination. The sheer volume of detailed knowledge in every scientific specialty makes it practically impossible for a lay person or a scientist in another field to evaluate the latest development in an area to which he or she is a technical stranger. Scientific specialization. The scientific community which generates and uses accurate stories about nature is specialized and divided. Adam Smith praised the benefits of specialization in his famous l8th- century example of pin manufacture: A single craftsman, manufacturing entire pins, makes not more than twenty per day, while a team of ten men, employed in a small manufactory, could produce "upwards of forty-eight thousand pins in a day." Men "educated to the trade," each specializing in one part of the manufacture, turn out on the average 4,800 per day. Thus specialization amplifies the output of a pin manufacturer many fold - a lesson which has not been lost on scientists and scientific funding agencies.(4) The "industrial system" is thoroughly established in science, with the same satisfying results. Collegial teamwork of surprising sophistication and complexity exists across the entire world. The system consists of multiple independent but cooperating research centers which regularly exchange information and personnel. Ever since the Middle Ages, academicians and researchers have been cooperative and mobile. Their greatest pleasure is to visit each other's universities and laboratories, and to congregate in large numbers at attractive places (Venice, Prague, Paris, Honolulu) to discuss, argue, and criticize each others' work. This is their life's blood. The results are poured into the research journals which are circulated and read internationally. The international scientific community is organized in much the same fashion as the modern communication tool which grew directly out of applied science: the Internet. The Internet is a system which exists as a collection of independent cooperating centers or nodes, each of which is administered locally. On the basis of a strictly voluntary cooperative organization, each node is configured so as to be able to pass messages through the entire complex system to any other node, and each node can also act as an intermediary for the transmission of messages from one node to another. But like the users of the Internet, the scientific community is really a collection of sub-communities which for the most part recognize each other's legitimacy, within the specialized domains of knowledge they claim for their own. And, as with the special interest groups on the Internet, it is rare that ongoing work within one scientific sub-community is commented on or participated in by workers in another sub-community. Scientific guilds. The independent sub-communities of science have another trait in common with those honored and medieval social organizations, the guilds, which were in some sense the progenitors of the very universities that now support many of the scientists. The guilds were professionally exclusive and jealous of their privileges. In the Middle Ages, work produced by non-guild members was proscribed and rejected. In the modern world, a relevant scientific advance which is reported from outside the research sub-community is likely to suffer the same fate. In the Middle Ages, there were political wars between the guilds and non-guild craftsmen, whose products were driven outside the towns where the guilds held power, into the countryside, where a non-guild worker could sell unlicensed products to customers who might later smuggle them back into the town. Scientists who produce work outside their specialties, or in areas of research that are not recognized as legitimate by their own sub- community, risk having their work proscribed or rejected by scientific guild members. The modern form of proscription is simply the refusal of scientific journals to publish the results. Occasionally the examples of guild behavior are egregious and informative. John Garcia, a researcher who specialized in radiological research, discovered in 1955 that rats could be taught in one trial to avoid the novel taste of a food which gave them a delayed, but very severe, stomachache (the food contained a nonlethal dose of poison which made them very sick). Garcia's work was technically exemplary, but because his findings directly challenged two cornerstones of the current theoretical position on learning -(1) that a11 learning was incremental, and (2) that delay of consequences reduced the effectiveness of learning - his work was kept out of major psychological journals for years.(5) While Garcia's findings, and Garcia himself, are now completely accepted some forty years after his initial work, the hostility and rejection he experienced are object lessons in the resistance of scientific sub-communities to outsiders who trespass on their intellectual territory. Fear of scientific failure. Scientists are afraid of mistakes. The public-inquiry structure of science, which proceeds by public replication or refutation of previously published findings, is the usual antidote to the persistence of unsubstantiated empirical claims and unverifiable theories. But it seems that unsubstantiated claims arise in every generation, and persist long enough to be an embarrassment to science as a whole. N-rays in the 19th century, polywater in the 1960s, and cold fusion in the 1980s are examples of scientific discoveries which generated a bad press for science because they persisted long enough to raise the public's expectations before those expectations were doused by the necessary skepticism. They were in fact examples of the successful application of the public-inquiry structure of science. Since each of these empirical errors was refuted, they represent successes, not failures, of this system. But the cost, both to individual reputations and to the public's image of science, of these forays into unsuccessful empiricism is very damaging. When you combine scientists' real and justified fear of embarrassment over mistakes with the traditional hostility and conservatism of scientific sub-communities to new ideas introduced from outside the specialty, you begin to understand why the entire panorama of UFO and abduction evidence presented by part-time scientific amateurs like historians, painters, psychiatrists, and social workers, not to mention even less scientifically qualified white- and blue-collar contributors (military and commercial pilots, policemen, air traffic controllers, and just plain folks) is simply ignored by scientists when it is not being actively derided by them. Almost all scientists accept the judgment of publicly recognized experts in fields of work to which they are strangers. As a part of both the specialized character of science and the guild mentality of scientists, each scientist respects only the authority of the recognized experts in his or her field. This raises some important questions: What qualifications fit someone to pass judgment on evidence concerning UFOs and related phenomena? Whose judgment can be trusted to evaluate the evidence? What is the evidence? And what conclusions can be drawn from it? Practicing scientists often assume that all science is about work on problems whose boundaries are well-prescribed and on which there exists a consensus about method and goals. This is true of the massive efforts of institutional science to advance knowledge in areas where it is clear that more knowledge, or better techniques, may lead to impressive gains in control of nature. I am thinking particularly of molecular biology, solid-state physics, and nuclear physics, where advances in understanding the construction and maintenance of organisms, the organization of communication and information, and the release of power are important, immediate goals. But this assumption about the scope of science is not entirely correct. People who work on even harder problems like the nature of abductions, or the existence of extraterrestrial life, can also be perfectly respectable scientists, whatever their background or training: history, sculpture, psychiatry, social work, sociology, atomic physics, clinical psychology or experimental psychology, to name the occupations of just a few practitioners in the field. The important thing is that they respect the rules of scientific communication. They may not gain immediate respect from other scientists for doing so, but if they do respect the rules of scientific inquiry - if they do make clear how they have defined their terms, how they have gathered their data, what precautions they have taken to avoid error in the data, and how they have interpreted the data - then, eventually, what they report will be respected by other practitioners of science. And if it is ultimately respected by the other practitioners of science, then the larger public will come to respect it as well. When will science pay attention? The answer to this question is important, because when science pays attention, both the influential public (legislators, newspaper columnists, TV commentators) and the ordinary person in the street will also pay attention. Thomas Kuhn, the famous contemporary philosopher of science, pointed out that scientific revolutions seldom succeed by convincing their older opponents; instead, the younger generation is usually instantly converted, while the older generation, which cannot deal with the innovations as flexibly, simply dies off and the resistance ceases as they leave the field.(7) Abraham Pais, Albert Einstein's intellectual biographer, points out the same thing with respect to the acceptance of special relativity by older scientists of stature when Einstein proposed his theory in 1905.(8) Pais also points out that Einstein himself, who was one of the founders of quantum theory, himself never accepted quantum theory as it was developed by his own contemporaries. Einstein preferred classical certainty because he believed until the end of his life that "God does not play dice with the universe." Does this mean that regardless of what the UFO community does, as long as strong and convincing data about UFOs and abductions accumulate, the public will eventually accept that these phenomena represent the activities of extraterrestrial intelligence? Certainly not - if within the community, there is disagreement about what standards should be used to study it. The younger generation of intellectuals, scientists, and political leaders, which is supposed to be converted while the elders die off, is too sophisticated to be converted to a world-view which cannot or will not differentiate between psychological aberration and extraterrestrial visitation. I cannot say what the "core phenomenon" of ET abductions is, and it really doesn't matter that much. There is always, even in so-called normal science, a halo of less-clear phenomena and less-accepted findings which represents the cutting edge of investigation into the controversial issues. The existence of these controversial questions is not itself a fundamental problem - so long as the methods of science provide an ultimate means for their resolution. Typical issues of this kind in the abduction field are: what are the "Nordics?" What is the meaning of the "staging"? Are there missing fetuses? These issues are amenable to investigation and to ultimate resolution. It seems to me to be important that there be a consensus in the UFO and abduction field that controversial problems must be resolvable - and resolvable using those refinements of ordinary common sense investigation which go by the name of scientific method. SCIENTIFIC ASPECTS OF THE ABDUCTION PHENOMENON Obstacles to acceptance. The "general UFO hypothesis" which encompasses the existence of extraterrestrial spaceships and the abduction of people into them has to overcome a series of barriers to credibility. Each barrier is actually the threshold of acceptance among technically educated people for a series of isolated ideas which cannot be easily assimilated into the current coherent picture of the world. The unassimilated picture presented by the UFO hypothesis is much too rich for the average scientist's taste. It includes telepathy, movement through solids, craft maneuvering at what are for us unattainable and dangerous g-forces, and propulsion with no apparent reaction against the atmosphere. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Handling the News Media: What MUFON Menbers Should From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:33:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 02:17:53 -0500 Subject: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Menbers Should Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members Need to Know by Joe Lewels, Ph.D. (Mutual UFO Network UFO Journal, Number 337, May 1996, Copyright 1996 by the Mutual UFO Network, 103 Oldtowne Rd., Sequin, Texas 78155, published monthly with a membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.) --- Anyone who takes the UFO mystery seriously has, at one time or another, been frustrated by the news media's often sophomoric and uninformed coverage of the subject. As a former journalist and journalism professor, I have often winced with embarrassment at the antics of broadcast anchormen who somehow feel obliged to end every UFO story with a snide comment or a dumb joke. It is as if by doing so, they can distance themselves from the subject matter and demonstrate to the audience how objective, credible and professional they are. Such comments and raised eyebrows, I have noticed, do not explain to the viewers why the TV station chose in the first place to air the story. They are left to wonder why, if the story was so ridiculous, they bothered to cover it at all. The reason, of course, is the ratings. TV stations and newspapers are, first and foremost, businesses, and it is this fact that accounts for much of their content. Editors and news directors are well aware of the public's seemingly unquenchable thirst for UFO information, and even if they themselves are ignorant of the subject, they understand one thing quite well: UFOs sell newspapers and boost ratings. MUFON members, who from time to time may find themselves dealing with the press must be constantly aware of this truth, for it can either be the cause of great consternation or it can provide much-needed publicity opportunities. Three cases of media contact during the last year serve to illustrate the problem. Not long ago, the State Section Director in El Paso, Tex., Dr. Roberta Fennig, was contacted by a television reporter who was anxious to get an interview for a story. "We're doing a three- part series on UFOs and I need to see you right away," he said. He was working on a short deadline and asked for a meeting that same day. Dr. Fennig contacted me and we agreed to meet with the reporter on the condition that the meeting be "off the record." Since we did not know the reporter, we felt a need to act cautiously. We needed to know what the program would cover and how it would be approached. To determine this, we asked a few questions: "Why are you interested in doing a series on UFOs?" we asked. "My news director assigned me the story," he responded. "Is your news director interested in UFOs?" "I don't think so." "Then why do the story? Has something happened to stir up interest in the subject?" we queried. "I don't think so." "Well, why do a series at this time," we probed. ` "It has to do with the ratings," he confessed. "Next week is sweeps week." (The week in which audience sizes are measured to determine how much a station can charge for advertising is called "sweeps week.") "Ok, what do you know about UFOs?" "Not much," he replied honestly. "Have you read any books on the subject?" "No." "Are you aware that your network (CBS) devoted an hour of serious discussion to the subject on the `48 Hours' program?" we inquired. "Uh, no, I didn't see that." "How much air time will your station devote to this three-part series?" "Each segment is going to be about 2 to 3 minutes.' It quickly became obvious that 1) the reporter was totally ignorant of the subject; 2) neither he nor anyone at his station had any serious interest in the subject; 3) the only purpose of the report was to hype the nightly news to gain higher ratings; and 4) that the station was going to rush to throw together something without much research or concern for the seriousness of the subject. In the end, we opted not to participate, although we realized we were passing up an opportunity to bring in new members and to publicize our hotline number. We had good reason to be concerned that any comments we might make could be taken out of context for the purpose of providing the station with a 20-second "sound byte" to be used to hype their evening news show. Dr. Fennig, whose experience at dealing with the media is limited, was amazed by the lack of professionalism demonstrated by the reporter. "I thought he would have at least done a little research on the subject before asking for an interview," she commented. This example should serve as a lesson for MUFON spokespersons who will find that the job of educating reporters is never ending. They cannot assume that journalists know anything about the volumes of evidence pertaining to the reality of UFOs or that they have even heard the names of persons like Dr. John Mack, Budd Hopkins, Dr. J. Allen Hynek or other well-known researchers. Walt Andrus, International Director of MUFON, recently received a call from a reporter from a newspaper in Pensacola, Florida who wanted an interview and information on the Gulf Breeze case. "He knew absolutely nothing about the events of Gulf Breeze," says Walt, "even though Pensacola is just a few miles across the bay. He didn't even know who Ed Walters was. I asked him how long he had worked in Pensacola and he said five years. I told him the Gulf Breeze case was at least eight years old." On another occasion, a reporter for the El Paso Herald Post approached me for help in arranging an interview with an abductee. She wanted to do a feature story to accompany the story she was doing on John Carpenter's lecture on the abduction phenomenon at the University of Texas at E1 Paso. In the past, she had done an excellent job on a front page story concerning a lecture by speaker Robert Dean. She had even called him long distance for an interview. Since I had confidence in her, I assisted her in setting up an interview with a local woman who had a lifetime of UFO experiences. The interview resulted in a large, front page article which was no doubt responsible for the large crowd that attended Carpenter's presentation. It was a fair, in-depth and serious effort to convey the terror, trauma and honest confusion experienced by an otherwise intelligent, well-adjusted and productive individual. The difference between these two cases of media contact serves as a good lesson for MUFON members who may not have experience in dealing with the press. Here are a few suggestions about how to handle the media and to get better publicity: 1) Members should be taught to handle unsolicited media contact properly. One person in the chapter, preferably the State Section Director or another experienced individual, should be designated as the spokesperson. All requests for information or interviews should be directed to him or her. 2) The spokesperson should seek out reporters who are interested in and knowledgeable about the subject and work with them by being their sources of information. Cultivate relationships with those who can be trusted to do a fair job. 3) Media contact is optional and should be on your own terms. You are not obligated to speak to a reporter and you should not do so if you are uncomfortable with the format or with the individual. Be prepared to be badgered for a statement. Reporters know that if they can keep you on the phone or engaged in conversation for more than a minute or so, chances are you will end up "spilling your guts." Learn to say "no comment," or "I can't be a source for you on this story," then hang up! Remember that anything you say to a reporter is quotable unless you received a pledge of anonymity before you made the statement. For that reason, many reporters will attempt to strike up a casual conversation, without telling you that you are being interviewed. As disagreeable as it may seem, it is in your best interest to consider every newsperson as an adversary, for he is capable of making you look extremely foolish. 4) Before saying anything quotable, first find out what the nature of the story is and what the reporter's views are. Ask for a face to face, off the record meeting to get acquainted. Make it clear what comments are "off the record" and which are for attribution. Tape record the interview as a safeguard. 5) Do not assume the reporter knows anything about the subject or has done any research. Find out what books he has read and who else he is going to interview. Do not assume that the reporter will be objective, fair or sympathetic. Remember, reporters use people to get a story that will sell newspapers or get ratings. Their own interests come first, not telling the truth. 6) When dealing with TV stations, find out how much air time they plan to devote to the story. Realize that even though they interview you for 20 minutes, they may only use a 10- or 20- second film clip of the most sensational statements you make. It will be totally out of context and could make you look foolish. 7) Learn to exercise caution with your choice of words and think carefully before you say anything on the air or for attribution. Always opt for the most conservative choice of words and qualify your statements. For example, investigators should use the term "UFO" or "object" rather than "spaceship." Remember, you can't prove it was a spaceship. Use the words, "apparent" or "potential" when describing an abduction or alien encounter. Be cautious about stating as fact those things that cannot be proven, such as "the government is testing flying saucers," or "aliens are from Zeta Reticuli" or "alien bodies were recovered at Roswell." 8) If your meetings are open to the public, it is a good idea to ask if there are any reporters or media representatives in the audience. If so, you may wish to ask for a promise that the meeting be "off the record" or you may wish to ask the person to leave. Having a reporter present at a meeting may seriously interfere with a free and open discussion of important issues. Members should not have to worry about being quoted in the newspaper for statements made at meetings. 9) If your chapter is planning to have a guest lecturer who doesn't mind the publicity, arrange for the lecture to occur during "sweeps week." Contact your local stations to find out when that week falls and offer to help the news director produce a segment on UFOS, centered around your speaker. 10) For best results, hand-carry well-written news releases to those reporters and editors you know will do a good job. If your chapter produces a newsletter, send free copies to all the media and to favored reporters. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 UFOs and Mainstream Science From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:40:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 02:21:29 -0500 Subject: UFOs and Mainstream Science UF0's and Mainstream Science by Bernhard Haisch, Ph. D. [Bernhard Haisch is the Managing Editor of the Journal of Scientific Exploration, P.O. Box 5848, Stanford, CA 94309. E-mail: <haischGjse.com>] (Mutual UFO Network UFO Journal, Number 335, March 1996, Copyright 1996 by the Mutual UFO Network, 103 Oldtowne Rd., Sequin, Texas 78155, published monthly with a membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.) --- 'The Journal of Scientific Exploration' (JSE), which I edit, is a peer-reviewed research journal in which scholarly investigations on phenomena not part of the currently accepted scientific paradigms may be published. UFO's fall in this category, or more to the point, UFO's certainly fall outside the realm of mainstream science. Is there any possibility of changing this situation? The purpose of this essay is to present some ideas along these lines to the community of UFO investigators and supporters. By way of introduction I am not myself a UFO researcher, but as editor of this unconventional journal I have been exposed to enough data and met enough serious investigators to become supportive of the need to carefully study whatever this phenomenon, or perhaps phenomena, may be. My profession is that of astronomer and by most criteria, apart from editing JSE, I am an insider in the scientific mainstream: author of research papers, principle investigator on NASA projects, associate editor of a leading journal in astrophysics. The field of astronomy is supported by hundreds of millions of dollars in government research funding every year, billions if one tallies such major missions as the Hubble Space Telescope. For the recent meeting of the American Astronomical Society in San Antonio, the head of NASA, Daniel Goldin, flew down from Washington just to address us astronomers. Is there any chance that even a fraction of such support and respectability could ever come to ufology? At the moment, no, not a chance. But as I was listening to Mr. Goldin speaking it occurred to me that some of the points he was making might be worth passing on. Goldin made it clear that NASA's job is not to support astronomers (although it does that pretty abundantly, a situation I greatly appreciate!). Nor is NASA's job to employ engineers and astronauts to keep the shuttle flying. NASA's job, said Goldin, is to serve the American people. He mentioned a talk he had given in Bozeman and the excitement that the Hubble pictures elicited there among the ordinary men and women of Montana, far removed from NASA centers. People want to know about the universe. And people especially want to know whether there are other worlds capable of sustaining life. The fact that the announcement at the same astronomical society meeting of the discovery of two new planets orbiting the stars 70 Virginis and 47 Ursae Majoris made the front pages of major newspapers underscores this point. The search for the origins of life and for other planetary systems is now a cornerstone objective for NASA. Goldin discussed visionary plans to image other solar systems using huge space-based interferometers in the new millennium. He challenged us astronomers to find ways to photograph clouds and mountains on earth-like planets in other solar systems, which must be one of the most scientifically ambitious statements ever made by a head of NASA. This, in his view, is what the American people want from NASA; and I have no doubt that he is correct in his assessment. I pose to you that there is a lesson here for ufology. If various public opinion polls are to be believed there may be more Americans who believe there is something going on having to do with UFO's than not. It even seems probable, though I do not know this to be the case, that there are more people who "believe in" UFO's than have heard about Hubble. If that is the case, Goldin's lesson for NASA would apply here too. If the American people truly want the UFO problem officially investigated, the government will do that by and by. That does not automatically mean NASA of course. Many appearances to the contrary, UFO's may have nothing to do with outer space as astronomers view the universe. How would one bring about government-sponsored research analogous to that of astronomy or the other sciences. As Goldin urged us to do on behalf of NASA's research: write, call, visit your representatives and senators. Constituencies count. No doubt about it. NASA funds astronomical research because the American people want this; even if most of it is too esoteric for public consumption, the highlights such as Hubble images and first extra-solar planets do make the newspapers and people read with interest about what their tax dollars are paying for. But there is a second key ingredient that really needs to come first, and all the grassroots lobbying will come to naught until this second point that Goldin made to us astronomers is translated into action in the wilds of ufology. Given a mandate to support such research, who decides what exactly will be done. Goldin reminded us astronomers that it is our responsibility to come up with NASA's marching orders for the start of a new century. The community of astronomers must reach consensus on prioritizing projects, and he made it clear that those of us whose projects may not make the cutoff, owing to fiscal limitations, are still obligated as members of the research community to support those that are selected. Community consensus and support of an agreed- upon plan, even by those who lost in the proposal competitions, is essential. Without that, the money would eventually stop flowing. And there is the roadblock for ufology. There, in my view, is the principal reason civilian government money has never started flowing, or even trickling. The field is as far from consensus as it could be. There are many possible factors in this ranging from sincere and professionally motivated difference of opinion, to lack of understanding of scientific methods, focus on personal aggrandizement rather than objectivity, paranoia, etc. To be fair to the principles of objectivity and comprehensiveness one must also acknowledge the possibility that the disarray of ufology may be partially driven by official or semi-official disinformation, or even, taking the view of the respected researcher Jacques Vallee, by the UFO phenomenon itself. But even if those darker possibilities were true, it would still be possible to press ahead if a leadership and a position could be agreed upon, at least a tentative one, a provisional one to get started, one that can be re-evaluated after things get going. One has a better chance of arriving at a destination even if one drives the car in the wrong direction and has to turn around, than if no one is ever selected to start the car and pull out the driveway! Lest I leave the wrong impression, this is not a solicitation for anyone's vote for this astronomer to lead the charge. I have no desire to become a ufology leader, nor am I here to recommend to you in whom such leadership should be vested. My message is a simple but absolutely realistic one as evidenced by Mr. Goldin`s address. Astronomy is doing reasonably well even in today's budget climate because it is meeting a demonstrable desire of the American public and has the professional structure, stature and behavior to effectively translate that mandate into funded programs. The public climate is in fact more and more receptive to new ideas and is certainly keenly interested in the possibility of other intelligent life in the universe, including the possibility of evidence for such right here under our noses. It is conceivable that this could be turned into a public mandate for government-sponsored UFO research. But that can only happen if ufologists can somehow follow the successful example of the astronomical community. This is difficult. Ph. D.'s in ufology are not conferred by respected institutions as they are in astrophysics. But there are things that can be done to start the process. Genuinely scholarly papers can be written, which the _Journal of Scientific Exploration_ would consider, for example. Note that I am not trying to solicit papers; the Journal is highly selective and turns down more articles than are accepted. Journal articles are one way to interest mainstream scientists. In fact, eliciting the interest of mainstream scientists is a key factor in raising the level of UFO respectability. This is extremely difficult in the present environment of disarray, but this could change. A 1977 poll of American astronomers, published in JSE, showed the following. Out of 2611 questionnaires 1356 were returned. In response to whether the UFO problem deserved further study the replies were: 23% certainly, 30% probably, 27% percent possibly, 17% probably not, 3% certainly not. Interestingly, there was a positive correlation between the amount of reading done on the subject and the opinion that further study was in order. Professional researchers would be likely to lose interest if there were a complete lack of credible data. This shows a surprisingly high level of potential interest that could be brought into the open if a proper professional structure could be provided. Scientists value their reputations more than anything, and the perceived danger of tainting one's hard won reputation by association with a disreputable activity is a major obstacle. There is also a kind of non-linear downward spiral. Scientists are both very busy and put off by the appearance of much of ufology. As a result most scientists never look at UFO evidence, which leads to their conclusion that there is no evidence. Given the proper environment this could presumably be turned into a favorable upward non-linearity: Given "evidence of evidence," credibly, soberly presented, the interest of scientists can be piqued, which would presumably lead to the "discovery" by scientists that there is evidence. Two other obstacles are irrationality and paranoid claims. One cannot avoid the possibility that, as Vallee argues, the element of irrationality may be the actual key and purpose of the phenomenon so as to force a change in human consciousness. This would not be welcome news for the apparently large constituency of nuts-and-bolts saucer enthusiasts, nor presumably for those who take all abduction reports at face value. And this would be very difficult for science to deal with because it is at first glance a frontal assault on science itself. But consider the advent of quantum mechanics and relativity in the early 1900's. These were frontal assaults on the prevailing classical physics that must have looked like madness to many physicists of the day. We do not read about them of course. The textbooks discuss the Einsteins and Plancks and other geniuses who prevailed, not the army of "ordinary physicists" whose careers and world-views looked to be shattered by what must have seemed irrational to them. But life went on and science even advanced! Scientists are also certainly not used to the possibility that a phenomenon under investigation may be subject to clandestine manipulation. This may be the greatest obstacle because of the, in my view, small possibility that there may be some truth to it. It is not hard to imagine that there may be a great deal of classified information, but that would not by itself imply any greater comprehension concerning the nature of the phenomenon by those holding - and withholding the data. The 'Journal of Scientific Exploration' is publishing formerly classified information concerning multi-million dollar remote viewing (ESP) programs funded by the CIA and other intelligence agencies over the past 20 years. Projects that were highly secret a decade or two ago are now a matter of public record. n This demonstrates two things directly analogous to the UFO situation: yes, there really were classified ESP programs as claimed; but no, the vaunted government agencies were not able to come to deeper conclusions regarding the nature of that phenomenon than was then or is now publicly available. (The two public reports - by Utts and by Hyman - on this 20-year effort disagree on the strength of the evidence for remote viewing. The view of the three leading figures in this program, Puthoff, Targ and May, with all of whom I have had in- depth discussions, is that there were astonishing successes in a fraction of the cases. Unfortunately there was no way to distinguish in advance what would be signal from what would be noise, hence the program could not achieve its required operational intelligence potential.) Only in the unlikely circumstance that the most paranoid vision of government conspiracy with non-earthly intelligences should prove to be true would the existence of classified programs obstruct a successful, open, funded research initiative-either by blocking outright the establishment of an open research program, or by turning it into a sham to further cover "the top secret truth." In any case, nothing would be gained by letting suspicions of this sort stop the attempt to establish an open research program. Indeed, such efforts would perhaps point to valuable indicators of opposition, if such there were. It seems from my unique vantage point as both scientist and editor of JSE, that substantial evidence exists of "something going on." But in the real world of competition and politics and entrenched positions that by itself will not move the UFO debate off square one. Evidence needs to be properly analyzed and then properly presented using techniques and venues as close as possible to those of mainstream science. The disparity of the evidence appears to be confusing enough without layers of unproven theory and conspiracy. Somehow out of organization of evidence there could arise not the truth - that is too much - but there could arise a consensus on simply what to do next, who would plan it, who would execute it, how would money be spent in a responsible, accountable, way if made available. The outcome would not be "the answer," but merely and sufficiently the input for the next logical follow-on. If such a scientifically-oriented process could be started, scientists could be attracted: grassroots political lobbying could then point to realistic funding opportunities that a representative or senator would be willing to vote for and tout at the next election as his or her contribution to the legitimate needs and wishes of the public. Even if the UFO phenomenon should turn out to be deeper than we imagine, even should it prove to transcend science as we know it, the scientific approach is the only feasible way in the real, political, economic, technological world we live in to give us some chance to control our dealings with this phenomenon, rather than letting the phenomenon entirely control us... if such it is. Quo vadis, ufology? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Sky & Telescope's Weekly News Bulletin December From: Sky & Telescope's Web Site Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:08:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:08:56 -0500 Subject: Sky & Telescope's Weekly News Bulletin December http://www.skypub.com/news/news.shtml Also available in Spanish | Italian | Portuguese | German=20 Sky & Telescope's Weekly News Bulletin December 20, 1996 Meteorite Madness You might have caught a news report last week about a meteorite=20 hitting Honduras and creating a 50-meter-wide crater, fires, and=20 other calamity. Well, here's the story as best we know at present. A very bright, fragmenting bolide was seen on the night of=20 November 22nd, exploding near the village of San Luis. It was seen=20 from as far away as central Guatemala, 200 kilometers away. However, the Associated Press report of a 50-meter-wide crater is=20 unconfirmed and probably false. Right now a team of astronomers is=20 at the site, combing the rugged terrain for meteorites. We've also heard that a major fireball was seen in the Pacific=20 Northwest and Vancouver before dawn on December 17th.=20 Meanwhile, two recent auctions offer a sense of what meteorites=20 from Mars are worth. On December 10th a 7.6-gram slice of the=20 Zagami meteorite, which fell on Nigeria in 1962, fetched $11,000 -- close to $1,500 per gram. But the November 20th auction=20 of a trio of Martian stones, representing three of the known=20 compositional types and totaling 498.5 grams, yielded a "no sale." The top bid of $1.1 million fell short of the owner's minimum=20 asking price.=20 Gamma-Ray Repeater Several spacecraft have detected a sequence of gamma-ray bursts=20 over two days in late October from the same location in the southern=20 constellation Horologium. Such bursts have never been seen to repeat=20 like this, and thus it has been thought that the burst signals the=20 destruction of the source. The best data came from the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory and were=20 presented December 18th at a meeting of high-energy physicists in=20 Chicago. It's not certain that all four flares have a single source,=20 but that's the most likely conclusion based on the satellite data.=20 Because they originate from so far away, gamma-ray bursts are=20 considered the most energetic events in the known universe.=20 Comet Hale-Bopp (C/1995 O1) By the numbers Comet Hale-Bopp is still separated about=20 27 degrees from the Sun, but most of that is in declination,=20 and the comet is quite difficult to pick out in the evening=20 sky. By January 20th its elongation from the Sun will be 34=B0=20 and it could optimistically be shining at around magnitude 1.5.=20 We can only hope so. So, with these final 1996 positions, given=20 for 0 hours Universal Time, we bid Hale-Bopp a brief "Auf=20 Wiedersehen":=20 Comet Hale-Bopp R. A. Decl. December 22 18h 28.5m +2=B0 37.6' December 24 18h 31.2m +3=B0 00.0' December 26 18h 33.9m +3=B0 26.4' December 28 18h 36.7m +3=B0 51.9' For more information about Comet Hale-Bopp from the editors of=20 Sky & Telescope, including images and animations, see SKY Online's=20 Comet Page.=20 Aldebaran Occultation The Moon occults the bright star Aldebaran on the evening of=20 December 22nd. This event occurs around 22:30 Universal Time,=20 so those in the Eastern Hemisphere will have best view. It=20 should also be visible from the East Coast of the U.S., but=20 the Sun will still be up farther west. See page 77 of the=20 January 1996 Sky & Telescope for details, or visit the=20 Internet site http://www.sky.net/~robinson/1222grz.htm.=20 December's Solstice The Sun ushers in winter for the Northern Hemisphere -- and=20 summer in the Southern -- on December 21st at 9:06 a.m.=20 Eastern Standard Time (14:06 Universal Time).=20 Carl E. Sagan (1934-1996) We join the rest of the astronomical world -- and the general=20 public -- in mourning the loss of Carl Sagan on December 20th=20 at age 62. A professor of astronomy at Cornell University and=20 a scientific popularizer known worldwide, he died of pneumonia=20 after a two-year battle with a bone-marrow disease called=20 myelodysplasia. Sagan's principal research interests were=20 planetary exploration and searching for life in the universe.=20 He was also the author of many books, and his Cosmos television=20 series remains very popular more than 15 years after its initial=20 broadcast. Sagan and his wife, Ann Druyan, were just finishing=20 the second edition of the book Comet, which will be published=20 early next year by Ballantine Books.=20 THIS WEEK'S "SKY AT A GLANCE" Some daily events in the changing sky, from the editors of=20 SKY & TELESCOPE DEC. 22 -- SUNDAY * Around sunset or in early evening, the waxing gibbous Moon=20 occults (covers) the 1st-magnitude star Aldebaran for viewers=20 who are north of a line running from the mouth of the Saint=20 Lawrence River through central Illinois. At Chicago the star=20 disappears at 4:16 and reappears at 4:34 p.m. Central Standard=20 Time. See the map and timetable on pages 77 and 78 of the=20 January 1996 Sky & Telescope. Elsewhere, Aldebaran will remain in continuous view while the=20 Moon slowly passes close by it. Try binoculars! * Saturn is at quadrature, 90<dg> east of the Sun. This month,=20 therefore, a telescope gives the best view of Saturn's shadow=20 falling eastward onto the rings. DEC. 23 -- MONDAY * The Moon, a day short of full, is in a starry part of the=20 sky. It's high up by midevening. Aldebaran is to its upper right,=20 Orion is to its lower right, Capella twinkles farther to its upper=20 left, and Castor and Pollux are even farther to the Moon's lower=20 left. DEC. 24 -- TUESDAY * The full Moon shines to the left of Orion low in the east=20 early this evening. By midnight the Moon is blazing brilliantly=20 very high in the south, to Orion's upper left. Farther to Orion's=20 lower left is the brilliant white star Sirius, the brightest star=20 in the night sky. DEC. 25 -- WEDNESDAY * This is the ancient Roman holiday of Natus Solis Invicti, the=20 Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. Having just passed the solstice,=20 the Sun is proving its indomitable nature by starting to return=20 north. Already the days are getting a just little longer. Merry=20 Christmas. DEC. 26 -- THURSDAY * Some doorstep astronomy: A short period of moonless dark=20 prevails right after evening twilight ends tonight (depending on=20 your latitude). Use this opportunity to catch some winter stars.=20 Face north and look almost straight up to locate the landmark=20 constellation Cassiopeia; look for a flattened M shape of five=20 stars that's a little wider than your fist at arm's length. DEC. 27 -- FRIDAY * More doorstep astronomy: in early evening, before the Moon=20 rises, look low in the east-southeast for the constellation=20 Orion. The bright orange star marking his leftmost corner is=20 Betelgeuse. Almost directly above Betelgeuse, by about three=20 fist-widths at arm's length, is the slightly fainter orange=20 star Aldebaran. To most people they look identical in color,=20 but look again. Can you see that Betelgeuse has a very=20 slightly deeper tint? DEC. 28 -- SATURDAY * More on Orion, which is well up in the southeast by about=20 8 p.m. Look in the center of the constellation for the three=20 stars of Orion's Belt, lined up nearly vertically. The Belt=20 is midway between bright orange Betelgeuse on the left and=20 bright white Rigel on the right. To the Belt's lower right is=20 a fainter straight line of stars about equally long: this is=20 Orion's Sword. It points up toward the middle star of the Belt.=20 With binoculars, you can see the Great Orion Nebula glowing=20 dimly around the center star of the Sword. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D THIS WEEK'S PLANET ROUNDUP =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D MERCURY is having an interesting evening apparition early in=20 the week. Look very low above the southwest horizon as twilight=20 fades, about 40 minutes after sunset. Mercury is about 4 degrees=20 to the lower right of brighter Jupiter. Later in the week,=20 Mercury fades and both planets move farther down into the glow=20 of sunset; the gap between them also widens. VENUS is the "Morning Star" very low in the southeast during=20 dawn. MARS, near the Leo-Virgo border, rises in the east around=20 11:30 p.m. and shines high in the south before dawn. It appears=20 halfway from Regulus to Spica. JUPITER is very low in the southwest during dusk, to the upper=20 left of fainter Mercury as described above. SATURN, in Pisces, is the brightest "star" high in the south at=20 dusk. It moves to high in the southwest later in the evening and=20 sets by midnight. URANUS and NEPTUNE are low in the sunset glow east of Jupiter. PLUTO is low in the glow of sunrise. (All descriptions that relate to your horizon or zenith are=20 written for the world's midnorthern latitudes. Descriptions that=20 also depend on your longitude are for North America.) Copyright 1996 Sky Publishing Corporation. S&T's Weekly News=20 Bulletin and "Sky at a Glance" stargazing calendar are provided=20 as a service to the astronomical community by the editors of=20 SKY & TELESCOPE magazine. Widespread electronic distribution is encouraged as long as=20 his paragraph is included. But the text of the bulletin and=20 calendar may not be published in any other form without =20 permission from Sky Publishing (contact permissions@skypub.com).=20 S&T's Weekly News Bulletin and "Sky at a Glance" are available=20 via SKY Online on the World Wide Web (http://www.skypub.com/).=20 At present they are not available via electronic mailing list.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:41:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:41:36 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA Jerry Cohen wrote: >If you don't agree with Jack Kasher's analysis >of NASA's STS 48, because you assume it to be impossible, be my guest. Does anyone know if Jack Kasher has a web site with his analysis on it? I've checked a couple of search engines but I can't turn anything up. Regards, JJ Mercieca .-----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '-----------------------------------------------------' * MUFOR Web site: http://207.167.67.197/ * * TLP Database : http://207.167.67.197/tlp/lunar.html* * E-mail 1 : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * * E-mail 2 : mufor@waldonet.net.mt * * IRC channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * * Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. * Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * * Postal Address: P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '-------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:49:04 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:16:27 -0500 Subject: Philosophy of Science and UFOs Thanks to Steven J. Powell for posting the articles on science and the study of UFOs. There are several debates raging at other sites on the internet about why ufology is a pseudo-science. The old tired old arguments about "repeatability," eyewitness testimony, and small amount of unexplained data compared to all UFO data completely miss the point. Because a phenomenon does not fit into the tight little constrains of previous used methods which successfully investigated other phenomena does not mean that the current phenomenon is invalid or can't be investigated. Nowhere is it written that the Universe has to conform to the way previous scientific investigations were done. The Universe can and will throw in a curve ball. UFOs are transient, appearing to shocked witnesses who seldom have time to react and who do not have the facilities to obtain objective evidence. Or when such evidence is obtained, it is done so under such stress that the measurements, pictures, film, etc., are of little value. Ball lighting, earthquake "lights," sprites, and jets are also transient, but some of the conditions under which they will appear are known. In the case of UFOs even the conditions are unknown. Discussions from the University of Colorado's UFO investigation project in Condon's papers indicate that some members of the Colorado project recognized that they were dealing with a philosophy of science problem. The study of UFOs required a look at the capability of instrumentation deployed to study other phenomena. The usefulness of this equipment was very limited as indicated in the Condon committee's final report. An attempt was made to deploy a rapid response investigative team to UFO sites shortly after an observation. However, as can be easily seen by reading Roy Craig's book, the execution of this plan left much to be desired. I have read correspondence critical of the investigation teams' deployment to UFO sites which seemed of little potential value. The Condon Committee's answer was, "how do we know the case won't be interesting if we don't go out an investigate?" (Rather unimaginative for an organization of scientists with limited resources.) In this situation it would seem logical to establish a protocol which sets forth the criteria under which a team will be deployed. Of course, the protocol would need revision based on experience. Each time a team was deployed an after action review would be necessary to update procedures. That was not done at Colorado. As I see it, the first step in study of UFOs involves a philosophy of science discussion. Most curt dismissals given by the scientific community to date also seem to recognize this point. Ignorance is at work here. Most scientists have not examine the body of evidence beyond the tabloid trash theories or have quickly become bogged down with the sense that nothing unique is taking place because the vast majority of the incidents are IFO. The foregoing is "a top of the head" collection of ideas--not carefully developed discussions contained in the articles presented. I would like to engage others in a discussion on the philosophical points raised in the study of the ufo phenomenon. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 What do you make of this? From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 17:29:33 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:19:19 -0500 Subject: What do you make of this? Message sent to Art Bell Fans mailing list attached below : - start forwarded message - Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:11:44 -0700 (MST) From: Miles Johnston <101341.2055@compuserve.com> To: Art Bell Fan Club <art-bell-fans@primenet.com>, Subject: [ART] ISRAEL EBE TO BE SCIENTIFICALLY CHECKED This Miles, from London. I am Currently co-ordinating scientific analysis of a now deceased EBE, from Northern Israel. Every step is being taken to ensure that the Santille circus from last year is not repeated. For this reason the scientists are being kept advised. PLEASE MAKE THIS CLEAR:- The scientists can only verify the evidence, if they are left alone. For this reason the usual UFO circus PLEASE STAND BY, and Keep OFF!. EVERYONE WILL BE ADVISED OF THE FACTS, and not the GOSSIP, IF AND WHEN POSSIBLE. The material :- 1> Is on Ice, in a secret location. 2> Video material of the EBE exists. 3> Photographic Material exists. 4> Physical samples, one internal, one external has been analysed. It is NOT a Grey, but of a type, of which a number are already in scientists' hands in Europe, and this one is yet to be confirmed. I hope to have European and US science teams to make secondary and tertiary analysis, as requested by the Israel team. As the situation is still subject to firm scientific confirmation, by examing the evidence, rather than commercial hokus pokus, all is subject to verification. Further details available at the above email, or 44-181-568-2089. This information is only made available, as information has already leaked, as of Dec 25th. MERRY CHRISTMAS, and Happy New Year. Miles Johnston. - end forwarded message - .-----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '-----------------------------------------------------' * MUFOR Web site: http://207.167.67.197/ * * TLP Database : http://207.167.67.197/tlp/lunar.html* * E-mail 1 : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * * E-mail 2 : mufor@waldonet.net.mt * * IRC channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * * Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. * Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * * Postal Address: P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '-------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Project 1947 - UFO Incident from 4th Air Force From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 23:44:25 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:15:17 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - UFO Incident from 4th Air Force Here is an report from the 4th Air Force files. Some of it hard to read due to the poor quality of the microfilm. [?] = indicate some difficulty in determining what the item says. AIRWAYS AND AIR COMMUNICATIONS WERVICE DETACTMENT 1901-A [A?] 1901st AACS Squadron Hamilton AF Base, Hamilton, California PAGE___ONE HAMILTON FIELD TOWER LOG DATE 21 June 1950 ***************************EXTRACT********************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: What do you make of this? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:21:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:21:14 -0500 Subject: Re: What do you make of this? >Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 17:29:33 +0100 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> >Subject: What do you make of this? >Message sent to Art Bell Fans mailing list attached below : >- start forwarded message - >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:11:44 -0700 (MST) >From: Miles Johnston <101341.2055@compuserve.com> >To: Art Bell Fan Club <art-bell-fans@primenet.com>, >Subject: [ART] ISRAEL EBE TO BE SCIENTIFICALLY CHECKED >This Miles, from London. >I am Currently co-ordinating scientific analysis of a now deceased EBE, >from Northern Israel. [snip] John Joseph, I found the following at The UFO Folklore Site, http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/newsb/isr.html ebk __________________________________________ Do we have a new Varginha story happening in Israel ? I want to personally thank Asaf Gazi for bring this to my attention ! 12/26/96 To Dan @ UFO Folklore From Asaf Gazi (email available) This is a report from a friend in Israel by the name of Asaf Gazi. It is about the reporting of apparently a small life form, human in appearance, alleged alien, was found in a field in Israel. I am sending this out in search of anyone else having heard this. With all the coverage, it should have been seen and heard by others in Israel and elsewhere. If anyone has any information regarding this please contact me at geibdan@qtm.net.... Several groups are currently looking for others in Israel and elsewhere to gain anymore information on this interesting piece of UFO Folklore ! And its still Folklore until proven fact! Dan The text below is how it has been reported to me. I will list this in two sections, A. The sources and B. The Story The Sources: 1. The story was happening between sunday and monday 22-23/12 and was published Monday morning on the Army Radio "galey zahal" (Israel Defence Forces Radio) 2. Later on it was that evening on tv an the day after in most newspaper. The story was published on prime time tv news on the public channel which is a reliable one, also, there was a 2 pages article about the incident in "yediot achronoyt" ("latest news") which is the most popular newspaper in Israel (although personally I think it's a tabloid..) 3. As I said before in one of my e-mails to you there was no official comment on it from the government yet. 4. You asked me if the government was doing anything about it...not up till now, but, police did confirm that what the family was saying about the incident was true. The Story: There is a breaking alien story in Israel. apparently a small life form, human in appearance (5 cm length) was found in a field, it was dead. This life form is exuding a green,gell like substance this green gel that has been coming out in very large quantities about four times the actual size of the life form. The family who found the alleged alien live in a small village in the northern part of Israel, immediately after finding it they called the police who checked the dead creature and photographed the scene. On that day (Monday) the story was on all the channel news-breaks, even in the public tv network Prime Time news. Today is was announced that the family contacted Uri Geller who is vacationing in Israel. He went to their home and looked at its remains. Geller advised them to get a lawyer to represent them if it will be proven that the life form is extra-terrestrial, he also told them to contact NASA to further analyze the dead creature to try to find out where it came from and what are the substances of it. I hope there will be follow-up of the story so I will be able to inform you all! Asaf Gazi Here is an additional story sent to me since I began investigating this story! From: Virgil Priscu Following is a summary of some of the information that made a lot of noise in the Israeli media yesterday and today.(Based in part on a big article that appeared today in one of the major newspapers here in Israel- Maariv - no. 14966 from 24/12/1996). This "event" was all over the local radio stations and the national ones and both main (national) TV stations. Mrs. Zyona Damti 34, from Ahyud (small village, northern Israel - near Akko) - observed a small "creature" in the courtyard on Sunday 22nd of December, around 16:00 h, local time. The "creature" was "humanoid" : head, trunk, two arms, small hands, two legs. The face had no nose, no ears. The umbilicus was clearly visible. The colour was greenish. The creature secreted a greenish liquid in large quantities , much larger than expected from such a small body. The green fluid eventually "evaporated" leaving a green sediment. The length of the creature was about 5 centimeters long and about 1.5 - 2 centimeters wide. It was moving and when approached it "jumped" in the air at a height of several centimeters. Eventually the creature "cracked" and lost form. According to the newspaper picture a sort of green "foil-like" shell remained. The police, including the commanding officer of the Akko police station came on the spot, journalists, TV crews etc. The police officers (one of them interviewed) declared that the creature did not resemble anything that they could identify and it was something that they never seen before "in their life". Mrs. Damti was convinced that it was a "creature" from "outer-space" and connected it with some "lights in the sky" seen previously. (There is no precise time for those "previous" UFO sightings) The event caused quite a commotion in that small agricultural community, where practically all stopped working and came to see that "creature" Also, the villagers claimed that the creature and maybe others like it are responsible for cattle disappearances that have occurred in past days in the village. This morning, on one of the national radio stations , one of the villagers claimed that those creatures are certainly responsible for the disappearance of 15 of his sheep. One of the researchers (Mr. Doron Rotem) of the Israeli Association for UFO studies arrived on the scene, declared that he doesn't think that the "creature" was of extraterrestrial origin, claiming that there are no similar data in the "professional" literature to support such a claim. He declared that according to the literature the medium height of ET's is about 1.2 meters, and there are no known testimonies describing an ET 5 centimeters long. No UFO or any vehicle of some sort was spotted at the same time as the creature was found. The Technion University in Haifa and the Ministry for the Environment are investigating.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 BWW Media Alert 961227 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 09:24:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:51:32 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 961227 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) December 27, 1996 NEW YEAR'S UNRESOLUTIONS Hey, what in this field ever gets resolved ;) ? I expect that next year is going to be very exciting in this stuff. New programs are coming on, and there is a heightened awareness. Thanks to the success of Art Bell, radio is especially hot (hey, folks, I'll make myself available to appear on or host a show...:) ). The PERSONAL TRANSFORMATION CHANNEL is coming to tv (cable and satellite). There are interesting rumors of new books and periodicals. I wish you all the best of luck! Now, on to the listings...you may notice some apparent time changes, that's due to my trying to standardize the times to Pacific. FICTIONAL NOTES: I liked putting a few brief things in at the beginning last time. Let me know if you think this is worth it or not. I'm quite selective here, and I don't think it's clogging things up too much. Look for HANGAR 18 to be on local tv this week. It's on at 12:35 AM on Sunday on channel 13 in the Sacramento, California area. The Disney Channel has BABY - SECRET OF THE LOST LEGEND, its fictional account based on mokele-mbembe, a possibly surviving dinosaur in Africa, on Tuesday at 2:00 pm. SHOWTIME has MAGIC IN THE WATER, a lake monster movie, on Sunday at 8:30 am and 6:15 pm BOOKS One of my correspondents, Gary Matteson, sent me a really quite remarkable case study of a photographic case. It's over 200 pages dedicated to one case, the so-called "Saas Fee" photo allegedly taken in 1975 in Switzerland. The authors, Wim Van Utrecht and Fritz Van Der Veldt decided to re-examine this multiple witness case in 1989. It's very thorough, including interviews, weather conditions, alternative explanations, etc. While some of the questions in the interviews could be considered leading, it really shows how a thorough investigation can be conducted. It even includes an actual print of the original slide (put into a holder on the inside back cover). As you know, I usually send you to Greenleaf, but I'm not sure they have this. Gary is sort of an ad hoc distributor in the U.S.: you can order the book for $27 plus $2 for shipping and handling...it's a trade paperback, but definitely scarce. Contact him at 806 So. 20th Street, Norfolk, NE 68701. MAGAZINES (newsletters, etc.: periodicals, actually) FORTEAN TIMES: The leading British publication devoted to this weird stuff. Besides lengthy articles, its STRANGE DAYS collection of recent happenings is indispensible. The January 1997 issue is out (includes a brief mention of me, btw). Articles include: ARCANE ARCADE by T. Liam McDonald, about upcoming computer games with fortean elements; SCROLL WITH IT by Richard Gwynn-Seary, about the Dead Sea Scrolls; and BIGFOOT by Bob Rickard and John Betts (includes some of the recent Cliff Crook photos and an intro by Janet Bord, who is not only one of the true authorities on bigfoot, but a very nice person). Highlights of the regular features: STRANGE DAYS includes the beast of Benbecula (which looks suspiciously like a sand sculpture), anti-gravity, and humans with gills; FORUM includes a piece by Paul Devereux, one by Bill Ellis on urban legends, and one on vampirology by Ian Simmons; REVIEWS include Jenny Randles latest, UFO RETRIEVALS* (gee, is there a Jenny Randles book of the month club? She puts them out about that often, it seems), WHERE BIGFOOT WALKS* by Robert Pyle, and the CD-ROM mentioned here recently, THE UNEXPLAINED*. Then, of course, there are letters, ads etc. Most big bookstores will have it, or go to www.forteantimes.com. There are lots of ways to subscribe: by e-mail in the U.S., you can try sgrudnick@aol.com. For UK, Europe, etc., try karenw@johnbrown.co.uk. INVISIBLE SIGNALS: This is a new publication from Loyd Auerbach and the Office of Paranormal Investigations. Loyd is best known as a "ghost-buster", although he's also recognized as a serious parapsychologist. I recently went out with him on a case (as an observer for OPUS**), and it was nice to see the careful and considerate way in which he dealt with the family and recommended a solution to their "problem". The newsletter is a monthly, and all the first issues are two pages (four sides) long. The November issue included: WHAT'S HAPPENING IN NOVEMBER (a round-up of Loyd's activities, including the new website...which is supposed to be up at http://www.mindreader.com, but was having some delays); INVESTIGATING HAUNTINGS by Lauren Forcella; OPI UPDATE which covers recent cases; and PSI IN THE MEDIA, which has a lengthy piece on PSI FACTOR (is it or isn't it based on "real cases"). For information, e-mail Loyd at esper@california.com, or snail mail to P O Box 875, Orinda, CA 94563-0875 ON-LINE No details available, but check http://www.omnimag.com on Monday and select PRIME TIME to see who will be on there. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website (at http://www.endoftheline.com) SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: I've gotten some contact info for this show from a correspondent, and I hope to be able to get more complete info on it. Two women are rescued from being lost; something to do with lightning; and a singing janitor (?!) PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) One episode has REINCARNATION (about a guy undergoing "regression therapy" who makes a prediction; and REPTILES REVENGE, wherein Lassie's trying to tell us something...but Lassie has no legs and scales. Another episode features an "impenetrable darkness" engulfing an Argentinian town (no, this is not a Congressional junket) in the case called CREEPING DARKNESS; and THE POWER, about a woman's stress related psychokineses (is this PMS PK? Just asking...) Look for it to be on in prime time in your area this week. Saturday, December 28 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Robert Gribble, original founder of the National UFO Hotline 11:00 AM, A&E, 20TH CENTURY: ARE WE ALONE? (ufos, etc.) 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MONSTERS OF THE LAKE (besides the Loch Ness Monster, there are many, many others...I don't know which ones they will cover, but there is probably one near you, if you have mountain lakes) 7:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL: SIGHTINGS (#5056) no details available 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL: SIGHTINGS (#5056) no details available Sunday, December 29 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5056), no details available SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: GIANTS OF EASTER ISLAND Monday, December 30 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: NEW ENGLAND WITCH HUNT: persecuted witches today...hey, that's just a communist hunt! Er...I mean...see, they call anything a witch hunt and...where's that delete key? (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#31): DRACULA; CRYPTOZOOLOGY (bigfoot, Loch Ness monster, et al); BUSHMEN (no, not Kate's back-up band =or= the CIA alumni baseball team) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK: PSI-FILES: THE REAL X-FILES (about psychics...but you knew that already, right?) Tuesday, December 31 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: MISSING BASEBALL LIGAMENT: Texas Rangers player has a missing ligament which makes it impossible to play...but he does! (nobody leaves the stadium until we find it!) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stationsand playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY FILE, SCI-TREK: PSI-FILES: THE REAL X-FILES (psychics) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#32): DOPPELGANGERS (I love part of their description..."What does it mean to see your own body double?" Off-hand, I'd say it means you've been eating =way= too much junk food :) ); SUPERSTITIONS (silly things, nothing to them...knock wood); JENNY COCKELL (something about her past) Wednesday, January 1 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: MONKEY MAN (not Peter Tork's autobiography...it's about a very human-like chimp...poor thing)(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 7:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (TO BE ANNOUNCED) 8:00 PM, FOX, FIRE IN THE SKY (based on Travis Walton's experience in which he was allegedly zapped by a UFO in front of witnesses and was missing for about five days...check out his book, FIRE IN THE SKY, THE WALTON EXPERIENCE*. Incidentally, I'd be quite sure the writer of this year's PHENOMENON with John Travolta knew Travis' story pretty well...it's not the same, but you get a good sense of what the angst could have been like) 11:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (TO BE ANNOUNCED) Thursday, January 2 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: MIAMI UFOS (tourist takes ride with aliens from the Pleiades...gee, there isn't enough to ride at Disneyworld? Just kidding...)(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 6:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: UFOs: THE FIRST ENCOUNTERS (are there references to UFO sightings in ancient texts?) 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: UFOS VS. THE GOVERNMENT (this may be the start of this program as a weird one) 10:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: UFOs: THE FIRST ENCOUNTERS (are there references to UFO sightings in ancient texts?) 11:00 PM,7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: UFOS VS. THE GOVERNMENT (this may be the start of this program as a weird one) Friday, December 27 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#50): no details available This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *You can order the books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). Alternatively, you can mail your check or money order to: Greenleaf Publications P.O. Box 8152 Murfreesboro, TN 37133 U.S.A. Add $4 for the first item and $1 for each additional item for S&H in the U.S. My foreign correspondents should add $5 for the first one, $1.50 for each additional (plus $3 if shipped by air). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. Their website is http://www.debshome.com/glptitlepage.html ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Project 1947 - Sec. of AF, Office of Information From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 12:43:24 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:56:28 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Sec. of AF, Office of Information The following letter is from Senator Richard Russell and is found in the Secretary of the Air Force, Office of Information UFO file 1949 to April 1952. The microfilm is somewhat difficult to read, especially the letter head. So only the central part of the letterhead is copied here. UNITED STATES SENATE Committee on Armed Services February 21, 1952 Honorable Thomas K. Finletter Secretary of the Air Force Department of the Air Force Washington, D.C. Dear Mr. Secretary: Members of the Committee on Armed Services have expressed a desire to be informed of Air Force evaluation of recent news articles concerning the observation of "flying saucers" by combat airmen in the Far East. I shall appreciate you furnishing for the use of the Committee an official report of these observatons together with your evaluation thereof and such other information as you deem pertinent to this inquiry. Sincerely, Richard B Russel [signed] * * * * * It would certainly be interesting to see what the Air Force told the Senate Armed Services Committee. Now that Congress has put themselves under Federal Law and lifted their exemptions, could a FOIA request be submitted to the Senate Armed Services Committee? Just a thought..... Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 #1 The Lesotho Incident From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 26 Dec 96 21:15:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:58:24 -0500 Subject: #1 The Lesotho Incident ********************************************************************** *News* *from the* *International Roswell Initiative* *IRI* ********************************************************************** The International Roswell Initiative was founded by Kent Jeffrey,CA, (International Coordinator), Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg (German Coordinators) in 1994. ********************************************************************** *THE LESOTHO INCIDENT* *OF* *SEPTEMBER 15th, 1995* *1. Introduction* Though the IRI was originally founded to help to bring on its way an Executive Order by the American Congress to end all secrecy in the matters of UFO's and extraterrestrial or non-human intelligence with the many thousands of signed Roswell Declarations which shall be delivered next year which is the 50th anniversary of the Roswell Incident, we have decided to help the German researchers Andreas v. Retyi and Jochen Kopp in their effort to focus public attention to something most extraordinary: the crash and retrieval of a non-human space-craft and the subsequent cover up of all related activities in the kingdom of Lesotho, South Africa. Those who are familiar with the Roswell Incident will immediately discover the similarity to the course of official and hidden activities related to the Lesotho Incident and to all the other retrievals of crashed or shot-down non-human crafts and their crew members in the past decades. It is the same agenda as always, according to the spirit of the fatal Robertson Panel, it is the same attempt to deceive the public, it is again the ugly face of the darkest force here on this planet, and it was no other than the President of the United States, Eisenhower, a 5 star general and conservative Republican, who in his last address to the nation coined a term to describe this dark force for the first time ever: *the military-industrial complex*. This "military-industrial complex" long time ago has declared war against humankind for the sake of "their" own global power and to get hold of advanced extraterrestrial technology. To reach this goal "they" shall stop at nothing -- threatening and killing are "their" tools if you come too close. This is the reason why we have decided to stand side-by-side with Retyi and Kopp because what we have heard from both -- including recently an "official" warning to them "that dealing with these things might be dangerous..." -- makes clear that someone has sharpened his weapons and any mistakes could have a fatal outcome. *We all should stay side-by-side* - not divded in several groups which follow only their own interest - but as individuals, inhabitants of this planet, living beings without political, ideological or religious differences who declare their native right to know what is going on - the truth - which is out there. *2. The Documents* On June 21st, 1996, something weird happened. In the morning of this day the postman delivered a big brown envelope to Hans-Juergen Kyborg's address. The address sticker was written with a machine and showed a mixture of Hans' and my name. The stamp showed that is was mailed somewhere in the southern parts of Germany. There was no sender on the envelope, it was anonymous. When we opened the envelope we wouldn't believe our eyes. What we held in our hands read like this: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Operation ROLD TSR U L T R A Recovery Data File . . . Warning _____________________________________ This file has been classified *ULTRA* under the National Defence Secrets Act No. 54 of 1989 and contains sensitive/ strategic / secret information in the interest of defence and national secu- rity of the Republic of South Africa -------------------------------------- D O N O T D I V U L G E
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Great Balls of Light! 4 Hour Discovery (US) UFO From: Greg Long's Ufology and Fortean Phenomena Site Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 20:30:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 20:30:03 -0500 Subject: Great Balls of Light! 4 Hour Discovery (US) UFO http://www.pacificharbor.com/nwmyst/ss025.htm _____________________________________________ Great Balls of Light! Announcing Greg Long's appearance on the Discovery Channel's upcoming UFO special starting January 5, 1997! Greg Long will be featured in Great Balls of Light, the second part of Discovery's ambitious and not-soon-to-be-forgotten four-hour UFO documentary headed your way: January 5: Reason to Believe and Great Balls of Fire (2 hours) January 6: Retrieval (1 hour) January 7 - Dreamland (1 hour) Started nearly 18 months ago, Discovery's UFO special has involved hundreds of people around the world, involving many of the world's best-known UFO investigators, researchers, thinkers, and witnesses. This far-reaching, multifaceted production looks more deeply than ever before at one of the world's greatest unsolved mysteries. Directed and produced by Martin Belderson of Four Winds Productions, the special involved two producers to cover both "halves" of the United States, the East and the West, and covers sightings and witnesses from other parts of the world. The production ranges far and wide, probing the more well-known UFO themes, such as abductions, UFO crashes, and government cover-ups, but also delves into an often overlooked, but intriguing aspect of the UFO problem -- balls of light. Belderson, his crew, and Greg Long spent three days in Yakima, Washington, interviewing and videotaping several witnesses to mysterious balls of light on the Yakima Indian Reservation, which remains one of the most fascinating areas of the world to explore UFOs. Greg Long was also videotaped as he interviewed a couple who sighted a UFO in southern Oregon. The Great Balls of Light segment ranges across theories to explain balls of light, including the controversial Tectonic Strain Theory of UFOs. I have not, as of this writing, previewed the segment, but word was that producer Belderson intended to scour the world for the best photos and footage of the unexplained spheres of light, many of which were photographed at Yakima. For the first time, television will open a window onto this often ignored
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 27 Project 1947 - Referenced Publications Follow-up From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 20:24:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 20:56:10 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Referenced Publications Follow-up SOUTHERN WINGS. I talked to Barry Greenwood who has a huge collection of magazine and journal ufo articles. He has nothing from this publication, nor had he ever heard of it. A contact in Forth Worth is trying to locate it in the libraries there. PEOPLE TODAY. This was possibly published as a newspaper supplement. It seems to be a Los Angeles publication. 18 Jun 1952 is the date of the article. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 A&E UFO segment on The Unexplained From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 20:59:51 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01:05:37 -0500 Subject: A&E UFO segment on The Unexplained Just a note about *another* UFO-related TV show. A few days *before* Discovery's UFO segments is the first episode of A&E's new series The Unexplained. The mail I just received from the producer notes that on January 2nd at 8pm Central, their main UFO segment will air. The show focusses on five cases or incidents representative of ufology: Rendlesham Forest (England), the Belgian triangles, Falcon Lake (Canada), the recent Michigan radar case and a brief piece about Area 51. I spent two days with the A&E crew which came to Canada to film the Falcon Lake piece. If they do as good a job with the other pieces, it should be a good series. You have to be warned in advance that the *original* intent of the series was to produce a "skeptical" view of the phenomenon. However, during the production, the goal was changed to: "produce a compelling program that presents both sides of each of the stories, letting the viewers decide for themselves". Not having seen the finished product, I'm not sure what ended up on tape. However, I was greatly impressed with the crew that came to Canada; they paid extreme attention to detail and sought out original witnesses and primary sources for information and comments. We'll see what happens on the 2nd! -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 Intelligence Analysis? Food for thought From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 21:10:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01:13:07 -0500 Subject: Intelligence Analysis? Food for thought Greetings to All, It is the purpose of this post to respond, in part, to recent inquiries and posts on the Net as to 'where' and 'what' UFO investigators should be looking for. It is not the purpose of this post to instruct anyone on the means and methods of the gathering and analysis of data. To keep this as simple as possible, it has been suggested by one set of individuals that investigations should focus on the ETBs, or drivers of the UFOs. Another set of people state that only by chasing the hardware will we truely find worthy information. Various reasons are given by both sides. Each trying to sound intelligent. Their arguments aside, let us examine this from a sysmetic viewpoint. All areas of intelligence gathering effort are valuable. HUMINT, or human intelligence sources, naturally have their own screening, or analysis problems. Materials Intelligence operates on the assumption that we have the abilities to interpet what we find. In any intelligence field you will find specialists, who by virtue of their position or training are focused onto a specific subject or target. The key to _all_ intelligence operations is the intelligence analyst. This individual operates in a fashion simular to a systems engineer. This individual is capable of understanding and systemically approaching a mass of data, and finding the porverbial needle-in-the-haystack. This is a developed form of pattern recognition. In conclusion, don't turn away any data. A unilateral system to classify data as to reliablity, source, catagory, etc., should be established. Individuals with intelligence, counter-intelligence and criminal investigations should be sought out and employed in this effort. Through the establishment of operating standards, aggressive investigations tactics, (moving from a reactive posture to an proactive program is absolute), and strong systemic organizational structure, the entire field of UFO studies can be revived and moved from it's current dismal condition. Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice "One man's magic is another man's technology". Robert A. Heinlein "Any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 Project 1947 - West Virginia Gun Shot Case From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 23:46:27 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01:13:59 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - West Virginia Gun Shot Case Bluefield, West Virginia SUNSET NEWS, 12 July 1947, Page 1. (Same story in Edition I and Edition II.) "Learns Shots Can't Ground Flying Discs "Johnny Johnson, employe of the E. L. Mansure company on the Virginia Side made a vain attempt to ground the 'flying discs' with his shotgun Wednesday night when they were sighted by his on the Brush Fork rodad. "Johnson explained that his wife and some friends were on their way home from church about 10 p. m. when the objects were first sighted. At that time he was asleeep but when his wife awoke him, he grabbed his shotgun and shot into the sky several times. "However, the only that fell was Johnson's hope of capturing one of the nationally-known curiosities. "He says th discs were saucer-shaped objects and appeared to be a short distance from the ground. "They flew around for about thirty minutes, stated Johnson, and after several tries, he admitted defeat and returned to his bed to dream of such things as pink elephants and flying disks."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 New NASA Shuttle UFO Footage From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01:05:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 03:26:47 -0500 Subject: New NASA Shuttle UFO Footage Errol, Please share this with the rest of the kids! Enjoy, John Velez =========================================================================== Thanks to the hard work of John Maxfield in Sacramento who was taping the NASA channel we have some new UFO Shuttle footage to study. He sent a copy to author/researcher Bill Hamilton and with the help of Bill its now online for people to see and download a few seconds of the video. The video lasts about 4 minutes long and from the opinion of everyone who has seen it, "its better than the STS-48 footage" in many respects. The objects are much closer, and many more of them. Plus more of these bizarre streaks flying past the camera. It will be hard to seriously explain this one away. Although you can't see perfect dome shaped saucers in the video. It simply shows what is filmed, photographed and videotaped on the ground, are the exact same type of objects seen in space. Making them probably interplanetary to say the least. You can check out the video at OVNI Chapterhouse at. http://www.netwrx.net/users/xalium/chapterhouse/sts80/sts80.htm Tom King _______________________________________ jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01:32:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 03:29:19 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA >Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:41:46 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Flying Saucerology' - Europe Vs. The USA > ..... >Does anyone know if Jack Kasher has a web site with his analysis on it? >I've checked a couple of search engines but I can't turn anything up. > - - - - - JC: I was looking for it. Couldn't find it. I'd like to know it also. Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: Eyewitness Testimony From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 01:27:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 03:28:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony Commentary on the following article: >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:44:06 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Eyewitness Testimony >The Eyewitness >Imperfect Interface >Between Stimuli and Story >James R. Reich, Jr. >(The Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 17, No. 4, Summer 1993, Copyright 1993 by >the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the >Paranormal, 3965 Rensch Road, Buffalo, NY 14228, published quarterly >with a membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.) > The eyewitness is a link between an event that has taken place >and the reporting of that event. In a real sense the memory of an >individual is put to the test when a detailed account of what took place >is desired. ........ etc. >Recent research includes work on leading questions. ..... >one group was asked the question: "How tall was the basketball >player?" while the second group was asked "How short was the basketball >player?"..... etc. >Using the same pattern in a different question....... >"How high was the office building" averaged a height of 26 >stories, while those who were asked "How low was the office building" >averaged only 13 stories - exactly one-half that of the first group. >Elizabeth Loftus asked individuals questions about their >headaches....... >(1) "Do you get headaches >frequently, and, if so, how often?" or (2) "Do you get headaches >occasionally....... etc. > Loftus (1974) investigated the possible effects that leading >questions may have on memory. >For example, the question "How fast was the car >going when it ran the stop sign?" ..... etc. >In this experiment subjects viewed a short videotape of an >automobile accident and then answered ten questions based on the >accident. The subjects were divided into two groups. One group was asked >the key question "How fast was the white sports car going when it passed >the barn while traveling along the country road?" ..... etc. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Incident at Exeter, New Hampshire * JC: September 3, 1965. A man hitchhiking home to Exeter, NH (Norman Muscarello), "about 2AM, object came out of sky directly toward him. It appeared to be 80-90 ft. in diameter and had brilliant pulsating red lights outlining an apparent rim. It wobbled, yawed and floated toward him but made no noise whatsoever ..... The object backed off slowly and hovered over the roof of one of two nearby houses..... " Muscarello is petrified, stops a car and gets driven to police station. Tells officer in charge (Reginald Toland) what happened. An officer in a patrol car (Eugene Bertrand) takes him back to the area he saw the object. About an hour earlier, officer Bertrand had come across a car parked on a bypass, "and the woman at the wheel told him that a huge silent airborne object had trailed her from the town of Epping, nine miles away. The object had brilliant flashing red lights.... and kept within a few feet of her car. When she reached the overpass, it suddenly developed tremendous speed and soon disappeared among the stars." It was nearly 3 AM when Bertrand and Muscarello reached the field between the two houses. The night was clear, moonless & warm. There was no wind and the stars were brilliant. Visibility was unlimited. Bertrand and Muscarello both witnessed the object. "It moved toward them like a leaf fluttering from a tree, wobbling and yawing as it did so. The entire area was bathed in brilliant red light." Officer Bertrand almost drew his gun but decided against it. They both got back to the patrol car and Bertrand called in. "My God," he shouted. I see the damn thing myself!" .... the two of them watched the object hover. It was about 100 feet above them, about a football field's distance away. It was rocking back & forth on its axis, still absolutely silent." After several minutes, the object began moving slowly eastward... Its movement was erratic, defying all conventional aerodynamic patterns. "It darted," says officer Bertrand. As it began to move away, another patrolman (David Hunt) pulled up in a Cruiser. He said: "I could see that fluttering movement" ... "It was going from left to right between the tops of two big trees. I could see those pulsating lights." More than sixty people living near Exeter, New Hampshire reported experiences regarding this object or others like it. This sighting, and other's called in were recorded in the police log. ..... and so on for three pages of testimony. Bibliography: Fuller, John G. . Look Magazine . 2/22/66 . p. 36 . "OUTER-SPACE GHOST STORY" : Fuller, John G. . Incident at Exeter . New York . published by G.P. Putnam & Sons . distributed by Berkley Publishing Corp. 1966 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Analysis of case: a) Was there an object? 4 people testified they had seen it; two police officers & two civilian witnesses. From this testimony, a person would have to conclude there was some object there or all four people were lying. The sightings had been notated in the police log. b) How big was the object? Muscarello testified 80-90 feet in diameter. The woman said a huge object had trailed her approximately nine miles keeping within a few feet of her car. (say she was wrong by 200 - 1000 feet.) The officers confirmed this. If Muscarello's estimations were off, we could say it might be anywhere from 40' to 150' in diameter. However, since it hovered over a house, they could get some sort of estimate from that. Bertrand and Muscarello said "It was about 100 feet above them, about a football field's distance away." How much should we allow their estimate might have been off? c) Would it be fair for us to conclude that the object had brilliant pulsating lights? When Muscarello first saw it, he described it as such. The woman said it had "brilliant flashing red lights." When Bertrand and Muscarello saw it together they said "The entire area was bathed in brilliant red light." Officer Hunt said: "I could see those pulsating lights." Conclusion: If the object *didn't* have pulsating red lights, they all must have gone colorblind when they saw it and it was actually some other color. d) Did the object make any sound? If it did, then Muscarello and Bertrand went momentarily deaf when it hovered near them? Of course, the woman could have had her window rolled up. Perhaps it was a helium balloon that just happened to have rotating lights going around on it. Perhaps they all got together on the spur of the moment and decided to create a hoax? (The other 54 or so people that called into the police station were in on it too.) e) Then what was this object seen by the witnesses? Your guess is a good as mine but, unfortunately, the two-foot basketball player with a headache, driving a white sports car had just crashed into a six-story building and therefore missed the object which was reported by the four witnesses. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 23:22:14 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 03:30:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From: Rob McConnell <misterx@WarpLink.com> I must reply to this "masterpiece of misinformation" that the writer is trying to pass the buck of the poor reporting of UFO by the media to the source where it actually belongs.....people within so-called UFO organizations who have no idea of what they are looking for or looking at. They in return get so excited that they themselves contact the media and give these reports to news directors, who after logically investigating the sighting, with little more than a basic investigative reporting technique find that the information that has been brought to them is basically "junk." A perfect example of this is when there were multiple sightings over the Gulf of Mexico from the beaches of Florida and Alabama. The sights were rather spectacular to those who made the initial reports, the home videographers as well as the "self acclaimed ufologists" who "documented" these mysterious lights in the sky. The roblem is that they should have investigated the matter before releasing their "misinformation" to the media. They were not UFO's but NASA launches that are done from the back of a 747 at 40,000 feet. These 3 stage solid fuel rockets when they are "staging" flare - and then the object is not seen for a time and then it flares again, and again. Sorry folks, bu thte records at NASA and the CIA have collaborated these findings as well as the digitized video footage from television networks and independant sources. Now, as a journalist, broadcaster and parapasychologist, I too am concerned with the misinformation that gets to the media and the manner in which members of "ufology reporting clubs" gather their information and distribute it with their own hidden agendas. Over the years, I have had several members of UFO clubs, or as they are refered to in the Niagara Area "coffe club members" who have taken photographs of "strange lights" over Lake Ontario. These people, by their own admission and the presentation of "UFO Club" membership cards to the media, have dampened the credibility of UFO researchers who actually know what they are doing - and there are not many of them. On one show, a Director of an International UFO Organization who was identified in a recent book as having video tape footage of the Brookhaven, Long Island incident, told me that in order to try and get to the bottom of the Area 51 mystery, he actually tresspassed on private property and was proud of it. He was a person who was saying that the conspiracy of the Area 51 was against the law in the manner that the government was hiding the truth from their citizens. I asked him, "so, inorder to prove that the government is breaking the law and that there is a conspiracy, it's alright for you to tresspass on the private property of the US Government there by breaking the law?" There was a pause and no answer was brought forthwith. There are also the hundreds of "ufologist" who have no idea what they are looking at and since they cannot identify it, it must be a ufo....please! The majority of the "members of Ufology clubs" have no idea about the proper procedures for taking photographs, the proper use of 35 mm cameras, nor the use of home video equipment. It has nothing to do with hiding the truth, or the ratings, as pointed to by the writer of this rather one side article. It has nothing to do with a government conspiracy. It is the very poor quality of reporting that is done of alleged ufo sightings that have made most UFO clubs and organizations into anything else but credilbe to the media. Instead of hammering the media - print or electronic for the lack of reporting and time given to the hopes and desires of would be UFO researchers - get real! Get with it. In order to understand any part of the paranormal world or the science of parapsychology, one has to rea about the past. A knowledge in theology is a must, inorder to understand the growth of the UFO mystery throughout time and throughout past civilizations around the world. Knowledge in other sciences, including geology, chemistry, biology and physics are also necessary. Courses in photography and videography would be a definite asset. A basic psychology course would be wise, however, not practical to the members of the UFO clubs, who already have made their minds up - that there is a conspiracy....that the governments of the world are in on this conspiracy.....and that the New World Order is just around the corner. It is this very lack of experience and knowledge that have given birth to the lack of experience and knowledge that most "UFO memberships organizations" are associated with. On a national newscast, one scientist stated that if you want to see a UFO, it seems all you have to do is pay the annual fee to a UFO Organization and you can call yourself a UFO Researcher - balderdash. "These people have the same IQ as the people throughout the mid-western states who are parked in their pick-ups, drinking a 60 oz of their favourite mash and then claim to see a UFO. In fact," he continued, "I would believe the people in the pick-up before I would consider the report of a UFO organization member simply because, the people in the truck did not have to pay a fee to become a UFO 'researcher'...." The author of this article used an example of how Walt Andrus of MUFON was approached by a reporter from a newspaper in Pensacola, Florida, who wanted to interview him on the Gulf Breeze sightings. The fact that he absolutely claimed to know nothing about the case is a way that reporters feel out the credibility of the source, which is done daily....not only to the poor people of MUFOn, but to other people who have in the news, with newsworthy stories.....stories that can be authenticated. We are no longer in the days of blind reporting. Sorry. This article is the ufologists guide to self destruction and if a member of a UFO organization wants to have himself/herself taken seriously - then take the time and the patience to properly gather the evidence pertaining to the sighting. Don't forget the basic questions in jounralism and broadcasting: WHO? WHAT? WHEN? WHERE? WHY? HOW? Ironically the majority of UFOLOGIST scream for Freedom of Information to expose the alleged government conspiracy. Well "light watchers".....haven't you heard of FREEDOM OF THE PRESS? Besides, the media is responsible fo rwhat they print and air - unlike the reports that "the majority" of ufo researchers take. The difference is - professionalism. Just because you pay a fee does not make you an expert. The knowledge that you seek can only be obtained through credible courses. Please, CONSUMERS BEWARE - people in authority will not take you seriously unless you can present your article, your report or your "evidence (?)" in a credible manner. If you want members of the media to take you seriously -then be serious. And one more bit of information, there is something called a "PSE" psychological strss evaluator" that i sused to electronically tell based on simple question asked in the preamble of the interview or reporting of an event that various people use to authenticate the callers credibility before the matter is even considered as news worthy. Rob McConnell, Executive Producer of THE INTERNATIONAL PARANORMAL BROADCAST NETWORK, Host of the IPBN Syndicated show THE 'X', Publisher of THE 'X' Newspaper.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: New NASA Shuttle UFO Footage From: Ovni Chapterhouse Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 03:27:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 03:27:32 -0500 Subject: Re: New NASA Shuttle UFO Footage http://www.netwrx.net/users/xalium/chapterhouse/sts80/sts80.htm UFO footage from the Space Shuttle Columbia. December 1, 1996 Day 13 of the mission This video was brought to you by...John Maxfield who recorded this video in Sacramento on December 1st, 1996, on cable TV at 11:55 P.M. This was a rebroadcast of the day's highlights. Then the video was send to researcher and world renowned author of "Comic Top Secret" and Alien Magic and Bill Hamilton. Bill was the one who has really brought this to the attention of the public. The copy I have is without any audio and kind of grainy, the orginal must be really clear. The video starts off with a lightning storm as in STS-48. All of the objects appear during the lightning storm. There are well over a dozen or more "unknown" objects in this video. Objects that don't appear to be city lights, stars, or satellites. There's also over a dozen objects that streak by the camera. These appear to look like the "Rods". It is still unknown if these are meteors, asteroids, or weapons fire as seen in the last Shuttle video. I think its very unusal that these "streaks" of light appear when the UFOS do. There is one very predominant object in the video that is the "main object" of the video as others appear and go. The video is extremely bizarre and very interesting. At first you see nothing unusual in the video, then, all hell breaks lose and these objects are everywhere. Objects cruising below the clouds, rising up from clouds. Spheres of light changing shape and color, "streaks, or rods" of light cruising very close by the camera. UFOs traveling, thousands of MPH in orbit, objects entering the Earth's atmosphere from space. It last about 4 minutes then the video quiets down and goes back to "normal". The main object becomes a large white sphere in less than a second, doubling in size. The object had entered from space and then stops moving somewhere under the altitude of the Shuttle (220 miles above the Earth). It remains here for sometime before transforming into another look. At this point it seems to get smaller on video and begins its return into outer space. Then the main object changes shaped and becomes a white dot, surrounded by a energy ball. Sometimes this white object slightly flashes color of orange and green. As the main object stops and remains stationary, a very large sphere is seen moving, underneath the clouds. The large sphere is in the upper left corner of the image, the main object is in the bottom right. As this Object under the clouds moves by, one of the many "streaks, or Rods" flashes by. Here is a few frames of this, does it look like an asteriod, or meteor? I don't know do you? There is also a frame of lightning in this image. Then after you think there couldn't be anymore than this, a huge white object emerges from the clouds. This new object is larger than the "main object" we were watching. This new object is white and large and appears to be miles under the "main object". This new object has a black spot in the middle of it that has a good likeness to a image from Gulf Breeze, Florida. If this huge white object has indeed raised up from the clouds altitude, than that would make it over 175 miles away from the camera taping it. Meaning this object could be over 1 mile long. Which ever the case, its a realobject moving along in this video and not a lense flare or optical abberation. Just as you think there couldn't be anymore to this video, more things happen. Here is a wide angle shot of the "main object" the huge white thing in the upper left portion of the screen and another "main object" looking craft moves in the horizon and meets with the first "main object". The three of them form a triangle. Somebody is watching the "main object" as it leaves and gets smaller. The camera is stationed in the cargo by of the Shuttle and seems to have a robotic control. A person watching this steers the camera in on the triangle of objects to see whats going on and finally zooms in on them. Meaning this time as not shown on the last footage STS-48, someone was definately watching all the action and following it with the camera system. This video raises many questions to me. Who was the person or persons, watching all of this UFO activity? Mission Control? One of the Astronauts aboard Columbia? What happened to the audio? Who has a better copy, and whats the official NASA statement on all of this? What the hell are these objects flying in space that were entering our atmosphere and violating National Security? Does this video have anything to do with the recent sightings of the "Green Meteors"? Also this was a rebroadcast of the days highlights. The video could have been censored and not broadcast. Please do not E-mail us for a copy of the footage as we can not copy it for everyone on the planet Earth. This is a site to keep you up-to-date on recent UFO video and it will be on the tube soon, copy it from there please. Also you might want to keep your VCRs taping during the Shuttle missions if you can get NASA Select TV. You never know what will happen! Special thanks to Bill Hamilton and John Maxfield for the data and information that was used to create this page.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 #2 The Lesotho Incident From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 27 Dec 96 21:31:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 10:54:42 -0500 Subject: #2 The Lesotho Incident ********************************************************************** *News* *from the* *International Roswell Initiative* *IRI* ********************************************************************** The International Roswell Initiative was founded by Kent Jeffrey,CA, (International Coordinator), Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg (German Coordinators) in 1994. ********************************************************************** *THE LESOTHO INCIDENT* *OF SEPT. 15, 1995* *Part #2* In the first part we described how we came in possession of the documents. Of course, we are not blind or naive, of course we know that they might be hoaxed and of course we are cautious and remain suspicious. But what happened so far indicates that there might be something real to the incident. Further investigations are necessary and will be conducted. And we, the German co-ordinators of the Roswell Initiative, promise to do our best to make this case not another "Santilliade". The only restriction we have to accept at the moment in our reports is to refrain from anything that might cause danger to the sources. In this part #2 of our report we would like to provide you with a translated summary and excerpts of the exclusive report of *Andreas von Retyi* written in the latest issue of the *UFO-KURIER* (No. 27 of January 1997) *"UFO CRASH IN LESOTHO 1995"* By the beginning of 1996 startling information came to the surface. According to sources of the South African Intelligence Service an alleged non-terrestrial flying object with non-human entities on board should have crashed in the mountains of Lesotho, a kingdom in South Africa. A cover-up was established and an operation to retrieve the craft and the beings was immediately conducted. The name of the operation was "ROLD TSR." which means "Recovery Operation of Lesotho Disk, Top Secret Recovery". Seven years ago, in May 1989, another crash had happened, the so- called "Kalahari Incident". Most of the researchers were convinced that this was a hoax. Only a few, who dealt with all the facts such as the British researcher Anthony Dodd, remain steadfast that actually an unidentified extraterrestrial craft was shot down by the South African Air Force at that time. According to new information provided by the source of the Lesotho Incident the craft of the Kalahari-Incident was shot down by squadron leader Gerald Peter Goosen with a "Thor-2-Weapon" which was fixed at his Mirage jet. The "Thor-Weapon" was a MASER-gun built in the "Thor" factory in Johannesburg. This "Thor-Weapon" so far was thought to be a microwave-weapon working in the principle of a MASER (Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation). But in fact the "Thor-Weapon" does not work with microwaves but magnetic fields: "Magnetic Amplification...". It is known that there exist research in the principle of a HASER (Hydro-magnetic Amplification...) where the production of very strong magnetic shock waves plays a major part. The "Thor" factory in Johannesburg was always surrounded by mystery. There were rumors that beside other there was participation in the production of "Red Mercury", a high explosive substance. In November 1991, the selling manager of "Thor" in Johannesburg, Alan Kidger, 48 years old, was mysteriously murdered. His body was found in the trunk of his car without head, arms and legs. These parts were found on the works premises. *More Documents* Because of the very sensitive way in handling the contact with the sources of the information von Retyi could obtain more documents F#O There are two sets of documents, the first one with 20 pages, the second one with 22 pages. The first one contains a police report and a military report of what happened in the mountains of Lesotho on Sept. 15 and 16 of 1995. All documents are written in capital letters in the original. Here is a transcript of pages 3 to 6 of 20. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SECRET / GEHEIM PRIORITY INTERNAL REPORT CASE HISTORY On 15 September 95 at 22 h 20 local time, a black farmer Mr. Peter Lachasa notified Sgt. Thobo of the Leribe Police Department that he found a very strange looking craft on his farm which lay 12 km west of the Madibamatso River in Lesotho. According to Mr. Lachasa at 21 h 15 local time he heard a strange sound in the sky near his farm which frightened his cattle and livestock. Approximately 2 minutes later a dull explosion was heard. The complainant then went outside his house to investigate the cause. Friends of Mr. Lachasa who also live in the boundaries of his farm informed him that they had been watching a bright light in the sky that was slowly descending to the ground, heading on a course towards the Lesotho foothills. According to the witnesses the object exploded on impact with the ground, giving off a series of blinding flashes. The complainant who from now on will be referred to as the primary witness, then accompanied his friends to the site where the object had impacted. According to the primary witness an electronic humming sound emanated from th craft after which the light around it diminished and the object became dull grey in color. An intense heat field surrounded the craft which made close up inspection by the primary witness impossible. Dry grass in the area was set alight by the intense heat field surrounding the craft. Fearing that the craft might have injured occupants the primary witness decided to inform the local police department at Leribe of the incident. POLICE REPORT LERIBE POLICE DEPARTMENT LESOTHO SECRET / GEHEIM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SECRET / GEHEIM PRIORITY INTERNAL REPORT On 15 September 95 at 22 h 20 local time Mr. Peter Lachasa arrived at Leribe Police Department and informed Sgt. Thobo who was duty officer that night, that he had found a strange aircraft on his farm which he requested the police to remove from his property as this was frightening his cattle. The primary witness went on to explain how he nd other witnesses on his farm saw the object crash near the foothills on his farm. At 22 h 34 local time Sgt. Thobo and Constable Nandi escorted the witnesses to the site to investigate the complaint. On arrival the police officers made the following entry into their incident report. 1) A large round disk shaped object lay within the boundaries of Mr. Lachasa's farm. 2) The object measured approx. 18 meters in length and 3 meters in height. 3) The object was dull grey in color. 4) No windows / portholes or any form of entry / exit could be seen on the craft. 5) The craft did not appear to have any external damage or breakage even though the terrain surrounding the craft was severely disturbed. Sgt. Thobo radioed his observations to Leribe Police Department whilst on the site and was instructed to return to the department and make an official report. At 00 h 15 local time, a Lesotho Government official was contacted and a report consisting of two pages was faxed to South African Military Command 1 SAI Intelligence Unit in Bloemfontein on authorization of the Lesotho Government. MILITARY REPORT SECRET / GEHEIM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SECRET / GEHEIM PRIORITY INTERNAL REPORT MILITARY COMMAND / 1 SAI. INTELLIGENCE UNIT BLOEMFONTEIN The Intelligence Unit at 1 SAI. received a fax from the Lesotho Ministry of Defence in Maseru at 00 h 17 local time regarding a crash of an alleged unidentified / unconventional flying object /aircraft that impacted on the farm of Mr. Peter Lachasa, a black cattle and livestock farmer who is located 12 km west of the Madibamatso River near Leribe. Due to the nature of the incident it was decided to request information and possible confirmation from military air traffic control in Bloemfontein on any military / civilian aircraft in the sector at the time of the incident. It was noted that there were no aircraft in the area other than a routine Air Force Puma helicopter which patrolled South African / Lesotho border approx 30 minutes before the alleged incident took place. Commander george Human from the Airborne Division at 1 SAI. / 1 PARA Battalion instructed an aerial assessment of the area in question. Two Alouette rescue helicopters were sent to the area. At 01 h 17 local time rescue team leader Captain Manie Louw reported that he was at the designated area and that a fierce veld fire had engulfed the area. He went on to report his observations of the area as follows: 1) An area of approx. 400 square meters engulfed in fire. 2) A disc shaped metallic looking object of about 20 meters in length that seemed to be intact. 3) The terrain around the object was torn up and severely disturbed by the impact. 4) Due to the fact that it was night and smoke from the fire obscured vision, clear observations could not be made at the time. Captain Manie Louw was instructed to patrol / secure the area until further instructions were given. SECRET / GEHEIM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SECRET / GEHEIM PRIORITY INTERNAL REPORT To more than one of the officers at 1 SAI Intelligence Unit, this incident had the same markings of a similar event which took place in the Kalahari desert / Botswana in May 1989 and decided on the same course of action as was done then. Military Intelligence in Pretoria was informed and instructed 1 SAI Intel. to maintain a sterile area of 150 meters around the craft, after which they will take complete control over the situation. 3 battalion from 1 SAI Intelligence Unit was flown to the area to guard / secure the object until Foreign Technology Recovery Division from Valhalla Air Force Base arrived at the site. At 03 h 47 local time the area and object was secured and operation ROLD TSR came into effect. Due to the fact that this was a military intelligence operation dealing with an unidentifiable foreign technology, all members of 3 battalion were issued with orders to arrest / eliminate any intruders who strayed into the secured area. The area remained sterile until Foreign Technology Recovery Unit arrived at 05 h 55 local time. We at 1 SAI. Intel Unit / Bloemfontain hope that this report you requested will suffice. Please inform us if you require any further assistance. (Signature blackened) General Patric Dwight 1 SAI. INTEL SECRET / GEHEIM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For those who wonder about the German looking word "GEHEIM": it is the same word in Afrikaans language. The explosive nature of this incident - if it happened this way - is enlarged by information from other documents that three occupants of the craft were rescued - of *extraterrestrial origin and a l i v e .* >From a "Preliminary Medical Report" we know that the beings were brought into a research unit of the Swartkop Air Force Base in Pretoria for a close examination. The beings were anesthetized and then brought to a "Delta -Level" of the underground building where another team of specialised physicians did further tests. In the "Preliminary Medical Report" it is said that the tests did show that the beings are humanoids with some reptilian aspects and have an apparently underdeveloped skeleton construction. If we put the case that the whole incident is n o t a big hoax then we have to be very cautious in publishing names because it came to the knowledge of von Retyi that some of those whose names became publicly known have had already great difficulties with official authorities. This happened to the leading physician of the team who examined the beings. Page 14 of the twenty pages document is a letter of this physician which contains hints to the beings. The transcript reads like this: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ULTRA SECRET SOUTH AFRICAN MEDICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE [emblem Dept. of Experimental Biology and Embrionics inserted] (Address partly blackened) VALHALLA / SWARTKOP AFB. PRETORIA 0001 18 September 95 GENERAL PATRIC DWIGHT, PROJECT ROLD TSR. Your urgent communication to our department has been given priority attention and we confirm that we are able to participate in your project. It is not clear if the three alien visitors are still alive. It would be of assistance if you could specify what your exact requirements are in respect of medical or psychological investigative study and / or, if we have to perform any autopsies. A specialised unit would have to be activated for this purpose. I thank you for inviting our participation. Yours Sincerely (signature and name blackened) ULTRA SECRET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In the next and last part (#3 The Lesotho Incident) of this report I shall translate for you what Andreas von Retyi wrote about the sources of the information. Though this source is known as the main protagonist of the "Kalahari Incident" and many thought of this source to be a liar, it seems as if we have to take the source as it is: a character with many colours on the brink of the intelligence world and our "normal" world. If you have access to the Internet then you may look at the UFO-KURIER web page under: > http://www.ufos.de < *to be continued*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: Booklist From: "Art & Peg Kopp" <artnpeg@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 08:25:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:03:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Booklist Over the holiday a list of books was posted to the List, most of which I have read and enjoyed. Currently, I am reading Courtney Brown's, _Cosmic Voyage_, and I am interested in comments from others who have read it, especially relating to the scientific remote viewing technique that he used, and the information he gathered concerning Mars, Martians, etc. Peggy Kopp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 28 Passenger Plane Collides with 'UFO'??? From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 08:28:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:04:36 -0500 Subject: Passenger Plane Collides with 'UFO'??? Date: Thursday, December 26, 1996 Source: Reuters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- BEIJING, The Reuters World Service via Individual Inc. : A Chinese passenger plane was forced to make an emergency landing after the exterior glass of the cockpit window was cracked by an unidentified flying object at 9,600-metres (31,500 feet) , the Yangcheng Evening News said. The object collided with the Boeing 757-200 passenger plane on December 19 on a flight from Beijing to Wuhan, capital of central Hubei province, an edition of the newspaper seen in Beijing on Wednesday said. The plane belonging to a Hubei subsidiary of China's Southern Airlines made a successful emergency landing at Beijing's Capital International Airport, it said but did not elaborate. Company officials reached by telephone declined to give further details. REUTER@
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Intelligence Analysis? Food for thought From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 96 10:21:11 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 06:05:41 -0500 Subject: Intelligence Analysis? Food for thought Thomas A. Rice, using applied 'sysmetic' examination, said; > Another set of people state that only by chasing the hardware >will we truely find worthy information. Various reasons are given by both >sides. Each trying to sound intelligent. I've noted this phenomena since '73 in programmers and hardware types. Considering that todays computers are still in a flux of differences it would seem there is no end in site to the number of additional people into the field that are "Each trying to sound intelligent" finding better and better ways to do the same old thing. As for UFOlogy, it seems the methods and ways of practitioners have been copied and used to great advantage by such notables as Hulk Hogan. Surely I'm not the only one to have noted this rather odd similarity but for those who do, I purpose that we contact Ted Turner & see if we can't arrange weekly bouts on international cable. I can just see Stan & Kevin as a team against Klass & Randy. ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com/UFO http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://www.sat.net/~pparri/SCRAPS http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/comet
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 06:08:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 06:08:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members >I must reply to this "masterpiece of misinformation" that the writer is >trying to pass the buck of the poor reporting of UFO by the media to the >source where it actually belongs.....people within so-called UFO >organizations who have no idea of what they are looking for or looking at. >Now, as a journalist, broadcaster and parapasychologist, I too am >concerned with the misinformation that gets to the media and the manner in >which members of "ufology reporting clubs" gather their information and >distribute it with their own hidden agendas. [snip] This is classic 'Pot Calling Kettle Black'..... McConnell is a the "journalist, broadcaster and parapasychologist" who boot-legged phoney 'Aurora' photos from Graham Birdsall's 'UFO Magazine', printed them in his 'newspaper', and spent a full half-hour rhapsodizing about them on his 'radio show'. This while apparently knowing their real source. >On one show, a Director of an International UFO Organization who was >identified in a recent book as having video tape footage of the >Brookhaven, Long Island incident, told me that in order to try and get to >the bottom of the Area 51 mystery, he actually tresspassed on private >property and was proud of it. He was a person who was saying that the >conspiracy of the Area 51 was against the law in the manner that the >government was hiding the truth from their citizens. I asked him, "so, >inorder to prove that the government is breaking the law and that there is >a conspiracy, it's alright for you to tresspass on the private property of >the US Government there by breaking the law?" There was a pause and no >answer was brought forthwith. [snip] I was a participant in that 'show' - referred to above. McConnell is a former policeman. Once a cop, always a cop. Breaking the Law!? "...he actually tresspassed {sic} on private property..."! At that point in the 'show' his focus and attention were completely lost. Actually, what Tom Theofanous _did_ answer, smugly and with a huge grin on his face was "YUP!" Being a forty or so year radio veteran myself I have to say that as a self-styled 'broadcaster' McConnell couldn't organize a party in a brewery. He doesn't listen to his guests. He's too busy thinking about either another 'interesting' question or un-connected observation, leaping from one topic to another with no real comprehension of what interviewing is about. Tom and I left that night determined not to involve ourselves further with 'Mr.X'. He displays an abysmal inability to differentiate between what is important to showcase and what is not. As to the 'book' that McConnell refers to... I won't demean the authors who post here by mentioning either its title or so-called writer. Suffice to say that 99% of it is pure unadulterated fiction. When we were sent a promo-copy several of us sat around just howling with laughter at the 'facts' about Carp, Long Island, Tom's doctoral degrees and the greed and naivete of the publisher. As to having "a copy of the Brookhaven, Long Island tape", so what? There are many UFO researchers who've seen the tape. It's inconclusive. What does that have to do with the price of bacon? [snippage] >Rob McConnell, >Executive Producer of THE INTERNATIONAL PARANORMAL BROADCAST NETWORK, >Host of the IPBN Syndicated show THE 'X', >Publisher of THE 'X' Newspaper. Thanks Rob McConnell for yet another of your invaluable contributions to UFO research. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Eyewitness Testimony From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:48:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 06:07:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony > From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Eyewitness Testimony > Commentary on the following article: > >The Eyewitness > >Imperfect Interface > >Between Stimuli and Story > >James R. Reich, Jr. > >(The Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 17, No. 4, Summer 1993, Copyright 1993 > >by the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the > >Paranormal, 3965 Rensch Road, Buffalo, NY 14228, published quarterly > >with a membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.) > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Incident at Exeter, New Hampshire * The point of the article was _not_ that eyewitness observations and testimony are 100% wrong, or 100% inacurate, or 100% irrelevant. The point of the article was that eyewitness observations and testimony are _frequently less than_ 100% right, _frequently less than_ 100% accurate, and therefore _frequently less than_ 100% relevant. (The other point was to demonstrate that scientific studies have been done on this problem.) > [...] ...unfortunately, the two-foot > basketball player with a headache, driving a white sports car had just > crashed into a six-story building and therefore missed the object > which was reported by the four witnesses. I apologise for not informing you in advance of the point of the article. The scientific studies we have to use as a baseline tell us that eyewitness observations and testimony, _in general_, vary in accuracy from 70% accurate to 45% accurate. Of course there will be exceptions, there will be some examples that are 100% inaccurate and some that are 100% inaccurate, and we would expect the range of total accuracy/inaccuracy to be something like 30% to 55%. We're talking about population studies here, studies done _in general_, and it is inapplicable to attempt to extend _in general_ results to _specific_ events and expect to find an exact match. In your example what percentage level of inaccuracy is needed to tentatively establish the _basic_ observations? Four people saw the same sized object, same lights, no sound, same maneuvering. That they all agree on those observations suggests that (assuming the testimony was properly taken) those observations are accurate and representative of what was there to be observed. What other observations were made? (We don't know.) What accuracy comparisons exist for them? (We don't know.) Would it matter if the other observations were largely inaccurate? (Most likely not.) -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 10:03:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 06:06:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > Subject: Philosophy of Science and UFO > > Thanks to Steven J. Powell for posting the articles on science and the > study of UFOs. You're very welcome. I've been guilty of preaching 'science' lately so I thought I'd stop for a moment and let others do the preaching for me by way of their published articles. > There are several debates raging at other sites on the internet about > why ufology is a pseudo-science. The old tired old arguments about > "repeatability," eyewitness testimony, and small amount of unexplained > data compared to all UFO data completely miss the point. You've hit the nail on the head. It should be obvious to most of us that even before there was such a thing as ufology there were atmospheric anomalies, and beginning early in this century we started inventing and testing (largely in secret) all types of craft that initially could easily be misidentified. Those two precursor situations are not going to change, we will forever be dealing with them. Eyewitness fallibility and inacuracy of observation and testimony will always be an issue. "Repeatability" is a straw-man arguement - the research and investigation aspect of event reports in ufology, with the exception of so-called alien abductions, will always be based on after-the-fact observations. We are forced to work with and within those restriction, not counter to them. Ufology is not a pseudo-science nor is it a science. Every aspect of ufology is already represented by one or another established branch of science. However, while we frequently find branches of science working wholly within their scope to produce new knowledge and discoveries, ufology will require (at least until we begin to make a few discoveries and evaluate them) a broad multi-disciplinary approach. > Because a phenomenon does not fit into the tight little constrains of > previous used methods which successfully investigated other phenomena > does not mean that the current phenomenon is invalid or can't be > investigated. Nowhere is it written that the Universe has to conform > to the way previous scientific investigations were done. The Universe > can and will throw in a curve ball. The history of science is full of examples relevant to that point. Two hundred years ago we had about 5 branches of science, today we have hundreds. Not mentioned in one of the articles is that the creation of a new branch of science is probably one of the most painful exercises in the administration of science and requires an extreme amount of consensus-building. We aren't going to get a branch of science called ufology ordained just because we want it or because what we do ends in 'ology.' We don't need a new branch of science called ufology (or called anything else) and frankly we don't deserve it. We only need to use the existing sciences in broad multi-disciplinary and highly interactive methods. To build upon your metaphor, we have curve balls all around us and if we don't learn how to hit them we're gonna be benched and sent down to the minor leagues. > The study of UFOs required a look at the capability of instrumentation > deployed to study other phenomena. The usefulness of this equipment > was very limited as indicated in the Condon committee's final report. > An attempt was made to deploy a rapid response investigative team to > UFO sites shortly after an observation. However, as can be easily > seen by reading Roy Craig's book, the execution of this plan left much > to be desired. I have read correspondence critical of the > investigation teams' deployment to UFO sites which seemed of little > potential value. The Condon Committee's answer was, "how do we know > the case won't be interesting if we don't go out an investigate?" > (Rather unimaginative for an organization of scientists with limited > resources.) Do you suspect that Condon, and perhaps others, being conscious of the fact that a high percentage of reports are misidentifications, intentionally exploited investigation teams to create negative ufological press? > As I see it, the first step in study of UFOs involves a philosophy of > science discussion. Most curt dismissals given by the scientific > community to date also seem to recognize this point. Ignorance is at > work here. Most scientists have not examine the body of evidence > beyond the tabloid trash theories or have quickly become bogged down > with the sense that nothing unique is taking place because the vast > majority of the incidents are IFO. That the vast majority of eyewitness observatins are IFO is something that we can file in the "Duh!" category. We _know_ eyewitness observations are going to be tainted to varying degrees and for varying reasons, independent scientific study has demonstrated it and our own internal review of our own data demonstrates it, _therefore_ we should not automatically dismiss or include eyewitness observational data. Way back when meteors were noticed to fall from the sky, when the entire scientific community scoffed at the idea, the meteors continued to fall. Eyewitness observation was entirely discounted until trained and knowledgeable observers observed meteors falling from the sky. While its true that they too were scoffed at, at least _they_ began thinking about the problem as a problem of science. Even so, the _real_ practice of science did not begin to occur until _after_ physical samples were in the lab for study... There are hints in there that we need to pay attention to... Scientists study nature and they study the study of nature. We have not done the type of work necessary, using the disciplines necessary, to cause scientists to think that there is 'nature' here to study and _our_ study of it to date has almost entirely been not worthy of study. Nothing will change until we change it. > The foregoing is "a top of the head" collection of ideas--not > carefully developed discussions contained in the articles presented. > I would like to engage others in a discussion on the philosophical > points raised in the study of the ufo phenomenon. I was a little harsh on John Velez, for which I apologise, but to continue your metaphor: there are a lot of different types of people involved in ufology and we all need to figure out and decide which position we are going to play on this team. Right now we have a bunch of folks playing in the field who probably should be doing front-office jobs, and not enough players on the field who can actually hit the ball... We have existing data _right now_ that can be analyzed using existing sciences and the scientific methodology. But _nothing_ is being done about that... This has to change. We do need more data, but we most certainly do not need more of the 95% IFO data - we've already got all that we'll ever need of that type of data. I'm not sure where a discussion of the philosophy of science will lead but its fascinating stuff and maybe it'll help me to stop whining about all that's wrong with ufology <grin>. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Passenger Plane Collides with 'UFO'??? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:29:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:12:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Passenger Plane Collides with 'UFO'??? In addition to Rebecca's 'collision' report. John Velez ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rebecca Schatte wrote, >From: RSchatte@aol.com >Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 08:28:14 -0500 >To: UpDates@globalserve.net >Subject: Passenger Plane Collides with 'UFO'??? >Date: Thursday, December 26, 1996 > Source: Reuters > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > BEIJING, The Reuters World Service via Individual Inc. : A Chinese > passenger plane was forced to make an emergency landing after the > exterior glass of the cockpit window was cracked by an unidentified > flying object at 9,600-metres (31,500 feet) , the Yangcheng Evening > News said. > The object collided with the Boeing 757-200 passenger plane on > December 19 on a flight from Beijing to Wuhan, capital of central > Hubei province, an edition of the newspaper seen in Beijing on > Wednesday said. > The plane belonging to a Hubei subsidiary of China's Southern Airlines > made a successful emergency landing at Beijing's Capital International > Airport, it said but did not elaborate. > Company officials reached by telephone declined to give further > details. REUTER@ =========================================================================== Hiya Rebecca, A similar collision is reported in the Elders documentary on the Mexico City flap (Voyagers of the Sixth Sun.) There are videotaped interviews with the pilots and airport control tower personell. The UFO's have become much more than a mere 'theoretical' problem for them. Mexico City is a sprawling metropolis and the pilots fear for their own safty, as well as that of the general population. There have been so many 'close shaves' down there that helicopters are being employed to shush away the alien craft whenever they are hovering/cruising around in airspace used for the landing or takeoff of commercial airliners! Now ask yourself why this stuff isn't plastered all over headlines in the US, or anywhere else for that matter. Wake up people, we're being lied to consistently, and big time! Even if only by ommision. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: New NASA Shuttle UFO Footage From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 96 13:29:45 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:13:39 -0500 Subject: Re: New NASA Shuttle UFO Footage >It simply >shows what is filmed, photographed and videotaped on the ground, are the >exact same type of objects seen in space. Making them probably >interplanetary to say the least. Speaking on behalf of all NASA persons involved in review and censorship of time delay downlinks material before it is aired to the public, I'd like to say... "OH SHIT!" <-- Offical NASA position... ...being in reference to: http://www.netwrx.net/users/xalium/chapterhouse/sts80/sts80.htm :) ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com/UFO http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://www.sat.net/~pparri/SCRAPS http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/comet
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Project 1947 - Disc among the Pigeons From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 13:05:25 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:12:49 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Disc among the Pigeons Reference Officer McDowell's experience while feeding the pigeons (see Project Sign Check-List Unidentified Flying Objects post), I had a clipping from the Nanaimo, BC, newspaper which told of a somewhat similar incident. Here is an account from the Vancouver (BC) SUN of 3 Sep 1947: "'Flying Saucers' Stampede Pigeons "Special to The Vancouver Sun "NANAIMO, Sept. 3--Flying saucers wheeling back into the news stampeded a flight of pigeons here and sent them racing back to their coops in fright. "Thomas Naylor, well-known west coast pigeon fancier, reported the phenomenon Tuesday. "Mr. Naylor swears he saw one the whirling discs scatter his Birmingham rollers, which were flying at great height." * * * * The Nanaimo had made clear that only one object was involved. The object flew through the pigeons parting there formation. They immediately returned to their coops and would not come out for some time. "Whirling" is often used with the word disc. After all records in this era were called disc, and when placed upon the phonograph they whirled. One must be careful to accept the "whirling disc" description. Many times it is newspaper embellishment. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: #1 The Lesotho Incident From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 12:18:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:10:57 -0500 Subject: Re: #1 The Lesotho Incident Comments regarding: >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >Date: 26 Dec 96 21:15:00 +0000 >Subject: #1 The Lesotho Incident >Organization: Welt am Draht >To: updates@globalserve.net ----- JC: This researcher advises others *extreme* caution in taking this document seriously because, if disinformation is herein involved and not just a book sales ploy, both the Roswell Initiative and the 1989/90 Belgium sightings are direct targets for the disinformation. As they are some of the best researched and verified material available, hopefully this will be obvious to most serious researchers. The MJ-12 papers are also in the line of fire for ridicule. Koch & Associates may be direct targets as well if they are not actually initiators of the whole thing. No matter how you slice it, it stinks. ----- >*1. Introduction* > > >...... the crash and retrieval of a non-human >space-craft and the subsequent cover up of all related activities in >the kingdom of Lesotho, South Africa. > >*2. The Documents* > >On June 21st, 1996....... the postman delivered a big brown envelope .... >There was no sender on the envelope, it was anonymous. > ----- JC: Immediately suspicious. We know nothing. ----- ...... >There were no blackened parts on this page, everything could clearly >be seen, all stamps, signatures, telephone and code numbers. ----- JC: Also *extremely* suspicious. ----- >On the bottom of the pages we could read "page ## of ##" and the >numbers showed that we had received parts of two different documents >added by a letter dated half a year later. > ----- JC: Which could have been combined, adapted in any way shape or form. ----- >Page three, again with readable names, code and telephone numbers >reads like this: ........... ----- JC: This could be checked if the names & phone #s pertain directly to anything therein. With the secrecy mandate stipulated in one of the documents, I doubt there would be anyone stupid enough to confirm any of this. ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >The next page is No.7 of 20 ............ > > "ULTRA SECRET ......... >______________________________________________________________________ >BASIC INSTRUCTION >Remove X Object / A.C. from Lesotho territory. Move to secure base >with FAC. POS. E.T. origin OP to conduct secret. Escort/ LH passage >provided. One way passage requested. No land communication advised. >ULF SAT/MICRO DOT CONF. >______________________________________________________________________ ........... >Page 9 of 20 is another list ........ >______________________________________________________________________ > >This list contains - not blackened - all names, ranks, force numbers >and clearances of the ROLD TSR. Personnel / Designated 16 Sept.96, >including Generals, Commanders, Majors, Colonels, Captains, Lieutenant >and Sergeants. ----- JC: All checkable? Any bets as to whether anyone would volunteer any information on this and what their believability quotient would be? ----- >And so it goes on and on. Letters, information about the retrieval of >a classified X aircraft, requests for secure storage facility and >advises ".. to follow same arrangements as was done with Kalahari >object." And more. ----- JC: Excuse me. Is this possibly referring to another downed object? If it is, this is getting even harder to swallow. If anyone saw the Belgium Air Force sponsored video of what Belgium police officers described as a craft's three lights combining into one and then the one "dot" shooting away at a speed the eye could not follow; how rotten could this alien technology be that the South Africans could knock down two of them? (or even one of them?) ----- >Very interesting is the text (in the original all written in capital >letters) of pages 11 0f 20 and 12 of 20 which is given below: >______________________________________________________________________ > > ULTRA SECRET > >DEPARTMENT OF MILITARY INTELLIGENCE >INTELLIGENCE HEADQUARTERS >LIBERTY LIFE BLDG. >SUNNYSIDE PARK [emblem inserted] >PRETORIA >0001 > >Tel. ####... > >TO THE ATTENTION OF: >THE SUPREME COUNCIL >ILLUMINATED NINE > > >OEC. 619 00 9 MI./ ILN 17 October 95 > >Re: ROLD TSR. > >HONORARY MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, > >..........In May 1989 >we were threatened to submit to the wishes of the United States >Government when an (blackened word) space vehicle was brought down by >the South African Air Force. As you are aware that exercise was a >costly and internationally embarrassing event from which we have >learnt not to be swayed or distracted from international priorities. > ----- JC: The only thing blackened out here is the word "alien" or whatever? Please give me a break. ----- >Gentlemen, I would therefore insist that the Council of the >Illuminated Nine use all means necessary from any foreign government >intervention. > >We advise that President Mandela should not be briefed on the ROLD >------------------------------------------------------------------ >TSR. operation for obvious reasons. >----------------------------------- >If local government starts asking questions it will be our duty to >deny the existence of any activity surrounding the ROLD TSR. >operation. Disinformation of the highest order is advised. JC: It is my opinion that "disinformation" may certainly be the game here, but perhaps not the way it is stated in the aforementioned "letter." ............... ------------------------------------------------------ > >We await your comments / approval on all issues raised in this >communication. > >Yours faithfully > >(signature blackened) > >(name readable) > ----- JC: Why blacken the signature and leave the name? I only see one purpose in this. ----- Then they wrote: > >Well, take a deep breath - we did several. As Retyi, Stein and Kopp >found out by their research, "ROLD" is the short form of "Recovery Of >Lesotho Disk" and the term "Illuminated Nine" is used for a group >of high ranked Generals and Politicians, among them the former >Presidents Botha and deKlerk. > >The last copied page of the material is a letter from within the >South African Intelligence Service regarding a "Major... Van Greunen/ >..." who because of a meeting with the German National Intelligence >Service has "...now become a security risk to our service." > >"We advise that Major...Van Greunen /... be suspended from the >intelligence service for an indefinite period with IMMEDIATE EFFECT, >pending information obtained ... on ... return to South Africa on 08 >February 96." ----- JC: And? ----- >There we stood with these documents in our hands and our first >reaction was: "This reminds us in some way of the surfacing of the >MJ12 papers..!" ......... ----- JC: No kidding? ..... Gee whiz, none of us figured that out. ----- Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net P.S. Hon, please pass the Bromo Seltzer.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 15:25:54 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:14:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From:RFMmars@aol.com Much of what said [in the article] is true. As state field investigator I run into much misuse of camcorder s and interpretation of lights in the sky. However we feel as a whole the news media is lazy to the 10th degree and looking at the comments made about Gulf Breeze flap, you haven't had access to all the data. When local media calls us it is never what we want to present but have to follow their story line for the 10:00 pm news cast. Yours truly, Richard F. Motzer State field investigator Mufon of Arizona From: in_search_of@primenet.com UFO and Paranormal mail list
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 IUFO: Fwd: Coppola Sues Carl Sagan! From: Ndunlks@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 16:39:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:16:20 -0500 Subject: IUFO: Fwd: Coppola Sues Carl Sagan! --------------------- Forwarded message: From: AOLNewsProfiles@aol.net Date: 96-12-28 08:24:51 EST .c The Associated Press LOS ANGELES (AP) -- One week after Carl Sagan's death, director Francis Ford Coppola's company has accused the astronomer of breaking a contract with him. In a lawsuit filed Friday, Coppola's Zoetrope Corp. asks that Warner Bros. stop production of the movie ``First Contact,'' based on a book by Sagan. Sagan died Dec. 20. Coppola says that 20 years ago, Sagan had agreed to work with Coppola on a TV series based on the book, which was still in the planning stages. The book was published in 1985 and Sagan entered into a contract with Warner Bros. for the film. Warner Bros. did not immediately return a phone message seeking comment after business hours Friday. Zoetrope's attorney, Robert S. Chapman, said Coppola and Sagan had agreed to share profits from any other projects related to 'Contact'. 'First Contact', a science fiction film about Earth's encounter with aliens, is scheduled to be released next year. AP-NY-12-28-96 0820EST Copyright 1996 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: UFO UpDate: #1 The Lesotho Incident From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 20:46:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:17:12 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: #1 The Lesotho Incident Regarding... >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >Date: 26 Dec 96 21:15:00 +0000 >Subject: #1 The Lesotho Incident Joachim Koch wrote of a document which stated: TO THE ATTENTION OF: THE SUPREME COUNCIL ILLUMINATED NINE [...] In May 1989 we were threatened to submit to the wishes of the United States Government when an (blackened word) space vehicle was brought down by the South African Air Force. [...] The last copied page of the material is a letter from within the South African Intelligence Service regarding a "Major... Van Greunen/ ..." who because of a meeting with the German National Intelligence Service has "...now become a security risk to our service." Joachim, This is possibly a reference to James Van Greunen, who admitted forging similar documents relating to the claimed 7 May, 1989 "Kalahari" incident and who also apparently had connections in Germany. Apparently something of a "Walter Mitty" character, Van Greunen and the Kalahari story are well known to Graham Birdsall and Tony Dodd, both subscribers to this list, Tony being largely responsible for trying to make some sense of it all. The reference to "Illuminated Nine" perhaps relates back to a document which was part of the Kalahari story. The document, purportedly from the US DoD, was published in the UFO Magazine May/June 1993 special issue and states that amongst the distribution sources, a copy was to be sent to "ILLUNIN". A comment in the magazine asked, "WHO AND WHAT IS ILLUMINATED NINE?", but the document didn't actually mention "Illuminated Nine" and I wondered where the reference to "Illuminated Nine" originated. It's not mentioned elsewhere in the magazine's detailed report on the case. As I advised Tony some time after, I asked a friend in the US with relevant expertise for an opinion on the authenticity of that document. There were numerous blatant errors in the distribution list and formatting and the document is a patent forgery. To support this contention, some of the problems highlighted were: 1. The addressee INLOGCEN WP/FTD OHIO and the addressee FT BELVOIR VA have the same message routing indicator (RUEBBA). These two locations are several hundred miles apart and would not be serviced by the same message indicator. This is simply impossible... 2. The subject of the message is shown as SUB. The common abbreviation for subject in the US (and always in military messages) is SUBJ. 3. The "for" portion of the message says "AFSC FOR SDFP," but the message is not sent to any message center that services AFSC. Same for AFNIAD. 4. No US military organization would send a message to CINCSTRIKE in Florida "FOR JCS." The JCS is in Washington, DC, and has it own message capabilities. "For" statements relate to internal distribution by the receiving organization. 5. Assuming we would abbreviate the Office of Naval Research as OFFNAVREAS, we would at least spell it right (as in OFFNAVRES). REAS is not going to be anybody's real abbreviation for research, is it? And so on. This new, purported South African crash/retrieval documentation seems highly unlikely to have any proven genesis. It's that same old problem again... Personally, I would trust any document which mentions James Van Greunen and the Illuminated Nine, as much as I would if it mentioned Lee Van Cleef and the Magnificent Seven. James. Internet; pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: #2 The Lesotho Incident From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:12:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:18:00 -0500 Subject: Re: #2 The Lesotho Incident Regarding... >From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) >Date: 27 Dec 96 21:31:00 +0000 >Subject: #2 The Lesotho Incident Joachim Koch added: >In this part #2 of our report we would like to provide you with a translated summary and excerpts of the exclusive report of *Andreas von Retyi* written in the latest issue of the *UFO-KURIER* (No. 27 of January 1997) *"UFO CRASH IN LESOTHO 1995"* [...] According to new information provided by the source of the Lesotho Incident the craft of the Kalahari-Incident was shot down by squadron leader Gerald Peter Goosen with a "Thor-2-Weapon" which was fixed at his Mirage jet. The "Thor-Weapon" was a MASER-gun built in the "Thor" factory in Johannesburg.< Joachim, This isn't new information, it's from an acknowledged forged document from James Van Greunen and which formed part of the original Kalahari story: I have a text file of the document: CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET-DO NOT DIVULGE CASE HISTORY At 13H45 GMT on 7 May 1989 the naval frigate "SA Tafelberg" radioed Cape Town naval headquarters to report an unidentified flying object that appeared on radar scopes, heading toward the African continent in a north westerly direction at a calculated speed of 5746 nautical miles per hour. Naval headquarters acknowledged and confirmed that object was also tracked by air-borne radar, military ground radar installations and D.F. Malan international airport at Cape Town. The object entered South African air space at 13H52 GMT. Radio contact was attempted with object, but all communications to object proved futile. Valhalla air force base was notified and two armed Mirage FIIG fighters were scrambled. The object suddenly changed course at great speed which would be impossible for military aircraft to duplicate. At 13H59 GMT squadron leader Goosen reported that they had radar and visual confirmation of the object. The order was given to arm and fire the experimental aircraft mounted thor 2 laser canon at object. This was done. [End] There's a lot more to the documents, but Van Greunen admitted they were bogus. His story was that he had been shown the original documents by a close friend who was a member of South African Air Force Intelligence and who knew of Van Greunen's interest in UFOs. Blessed with a photographic memory, Van Greunen had reproduced the documents he saw. Like the claimed Lesotho incident, the "aliens" were reptilian and there were survivors who were aggressive, etc. I'm afraid the new Lesotho story sounds very much like Van Greunen's original Kalahari story, with the location changed. James. Internet; pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Israeli 'EBE' Case A 'Hoax'? From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 15:31:50 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:15:23 -0500 Subject: Israeli 'EBE' Case A 'Hoax'? From: Chamish Barry <chamish@netmedia.net.il> IT'S A BIRD, IT'S AN ALIEN, IT'S A FRAUD by Barry Chamish On December 22, Israel Television's First Channel Evening News program broadcast an exciting report. It seems that on a night of intense UFO activity in the Galilee farming village of Achihod, an "alien" fell from a craft and was captured by a local resident. An attractive woman, Tziona Damti was interviewed and described coming face to face with the alien the evening before, which was standing motionless just outside her father-in-law's barn. She showed her father-in-law the weird "being" and he said it was nothing. She went to sleep but in the morning returned to find the "alien" standing in the same place. So she called the police, which sent two officers to investigate. According to the conventional story, journalists monitoring the police band picked up the call and this was the start of a media event. The cops arrived and when one bent down to put the "alien" in a bucket, it jumped on his back. Officer Asher Ben Ezra told the press that the volume of bodily fluids left on the ground by the creature was abnormal and persuaded him that there was something suspicious about it. The police, apparently deciding the creature was no danger to the public peace, returned it and media circus was on. Besides the report on TV, the newspaper Maariv printed a photo of the "alien" on its front page while Yediot Ahronot devoted two pages in the center of the paper to the encounter. On the night of the TV report, I called Michael Hesemann, editor of Magazin 2000 and told him the news. He asked that I hire a cameraman and cover the story in depth. I immediately called Tziona's home and spoke to her husband Yisrael. "You'd better hurry," he said. "The body is disintegrating quickly. Most of the head has melted away." "Please," I replied, "Put the body in a nylon bag and freeze it." The next day, the Jerusalem Post reported that an "alien" was being kept in the freezer of the Damti home. The Hebrew papers also reported on UFO activity over and nearby the village. Maariv connected the UFOs with a recent wave of mysterious livestock disappearances. I arrived on time, after a three hour journey and Yisrael Damti was not at home. Tziona invited me inside and called his cellphone. He was at a laboratory of the Technion Technological Institute with fifty journalists and observers, including Uri Geller. He apologised for not meeting me but the "alien" was about to undergo a thorough autopsy. "Are you filming it? " I asked. The answer was no. "Well," I replied, "If you don't, the first link in the chain of evidence will be destroyed. You won't have a creature or proper proof that it was examined scientifically." He told me that he would ask for permission to allow me to film the examination. Why he needed permission I don't know but a few minutes later one Debby Segal phoned back. I knew her as UFO groupie who had organized a failed conference some months before. She denied me permission to film. I tried a new tack, which I came to regret very shortly after. "If this is really a space being," I said. "It's about to be chopped into pieces and you'll have nothing to show anyone. Whole, it may be very valuable to science and the Damtis. It will be a huge loss if you cut it into strips." She handed the phone to one Uri Avishai. "Yisrael only wants money, money, money," he explained. "I'm interested in truth. But let's talk money anyway. How much can he get?" "I don't know, "I answered. "My editor informed me that if I could acquire a real alien, he could bring a well known financier of UFO research into the picture." "We'll be back in half an hour. Give me Tziona." He then instructed Tziona not to allow us to film her til they arrived. It was already 2:00 in the afternoon and we had two and a half hours of sunlight left. I spent the next hour interviewing Tziona and talking UFOs. She told me the alien appeared out of nowhere and had a large, black eyes. It was originally 20 cm. long but after purging itself of an enormous volume of body fluids, had shrunk to 5 cm. The pictures I had seen had shown a green creature with lizard-like features. There were four limbs but no fingers. Five cm. is the length of a human finger and Israeli ufologist Doron Rotem was quoted in Maariv and Yediot Ahronot saying no alien yet reported was only five cm. tall. The next day he was on the early evening news program of Channel Two television debunking the incident point by point. He later told me, "After that interview I received actual threats from the UFO community. They want an Israeli Roswell and I had the nerve to say this wasn't it." Tziona went on. The creature had a human-like face and jumped away whenever anyone tried to touch it. The same night, December 21, that she discovered it, blue luminiscent discs were seen by numerous residents of the village. I took down the name of one witness. And that night, a sheep farmer, also from the Damti clan, lost fifteen of his animals without a trace. Again, I wrote down the name. Further, Uri Geller told her that in the nearby Arab town of Tamra, he was invited to see a small UFO flying inside someone's home. Clearly, there was real UFO activity in the area. And why not? Since 1987, Israel has been in the midst of a UFO wave that intensified profoundly last February. In big cities and small towns, UFOs had been filmed, physical evidence left behind and one highly likely abduction widely publicized. Until now, almost every reported incident was factual. But there were probable hoaxes. The best known example was the silicon shards found in the famous landing circles of Kadima. Between March 1993 and February 1995, at least fifteen very real landing circles were indentified in Kadima and one UFO successfully filmed. The flattened grass within the circles was imbued with a red fluid,later tested and found to be cadmium-based. Also found were shards of silvery rocks which the National Geological Laboratory director, Dr. Henry Fohner found to be of "elemental silicon which does not exist in nature." While researching Kadima, two people reported that they saw a local resident spreading the rocks into circles. Further, I saw him lead a group of researchers to an obscure circle where he told them to dig in a muddy puddle in the center. Lo and behold, silicon emerged. So I took samples to a microbiologist, Dr. Rachelle Fishman, who is the Israeli correspondent for the respected medical journal, The Lancet. She had them tested by two geologists, both of whom concluded that they were was composed of industrial-grade silicon. One problem... Tsiporet Carmel, the first of five Kadima-area witnesses of an alien being presents the best case for the validity of the silicon. "It was found in the very first circle, behind my house. He couldn't have acted that fast." Or could he? In June of last year, ufologists found the likely source of the "alien" silicon; a dump outside an electronics factory near Holon. Yisrael Damti returned with Uri, Debby and two very strange women. The first thing I said to him was, "There's ninety minutes of sunlight left. We have to start filming." Uri interrupted and said, "Relax, have some lunch first. Maybe talk to the ladies." The ladies were allies of Yuri Isaacov of Nazareth. Last summer, he was abducted by small greys who lifted him into their spacecraft and ultimately threw a yellow powder on him which made him pass out. The powder, composed of 55% aluminium was unknown in Israel and made his case believable. But it turned out, the powder burns could not be cured by conventional medicine and he was in great pain. He needed expensive medical care. Could I help? I said I'd interview him and publicize his ordeal. That's not what the ladies wanted to hear. They wanted someone to pay for an exclusive interview. When I refused to become a checkbook journalist, they left. Next was Uri's turn. He claimed he was in the Israeli UFO research business for the past 25 years, a good trick since the first recorded landings began ten years before. What he wanted more than anything else was the right to negotiate with my editor for the rights to the film and possession of the "alien" itself. I turned this huckster down twice. Clearly UFO madness had hit still another village. Last April, one Shula Cohen filmed a remarkable event in the town of Ramat Hachayal. At 3 AM, a globe appeared in the sky which lit up the whole town as if it was mid-day. After local reporters publicized the film and I tracked down a copy, her attorney contacted me and presented me with a written pledge not to publish or show the film for less than $20,000. Needless to say, I have not shown the intriguing film publicly. In August, the Shuah family filmed a UFO over their kibbutz, Hatzor for two nights and mornings running. On the third night, a crowd of over seventy kibbutzniks witnessed the UFO but the battery of the family camera wore down. A neighbour with a professional video camera was summoned and it captured one of the amazing closeups of a UFO's structure ever recorded. Word somehow spread that the film was worth $100,000 and that the television networks would start bidding. Hence, an ugly battle erupted over who owned the rights to the film, the Shuah family or their neighbour. Villagers who had got along fine for decades were suddenly at loggerheads. The same madness had hit Achihod. Whoever Uri was, he had persuaded Yisrael Damti that he was going to make him rich. And it was Damti who offered to allow me to film the creature and his wife if I promised him future payment for selling it to my editor. I refused and explained that no one, including my editor, would ever offer money without a thorough preliminary report. He agreed to bring the creature to me to be filmed. Again I waited half an hour, this time outside until Uri announced that I would not be able to even see it, let alone film it, because "I would spread doubt about its authenticity." At that moment, I knew I was dealing with a hoax. It was not the first time. To put things into perspective, I have interviewed dozens of witnesses and on only three occasions did I smell a hoax. The Kadima silicon was one, the alleged abductions of Yossi Ronen and Yossi Saguy were the other two. The Maariv UFO column, called not too originally, the X-Files, had accepted both "abductees" at their word. But nothing of their stories or their behaviour convinced me. Ronen wrote me monthly with increasingly wacky tales of outerworld experiences, until I dismissed him as a nut. I was prepared to give Saguy a chance to appear on a segment of Sightings I was arranging until his agent called to discuss conditions. It seems Saguy is an actor and being abducted was good publicity. The Achihod "alien" incident appeared to be stage-managed. Yisrael and Tziona are simple villagers and Segal and Avishai, the big city shysters. Everything was aimed at making money. I refused to play the game and walked out of the play. The next day, Segal appeared on the news and announced that an "unnamed" laboratory would offer proof of the veracity of the alien nature of Tziona's creature soon. In the meantime, Tziona announced that the alien would be put on the auction block with bids beginning at $10,000. On the way back, I stopped in Zichron Yaacov and visited Dr. Fishman. She had seen the "alien" on TV and pictures in the paper. "It's my opinion," she said," that a simple biopsy would have exposed the whole thing in an hour. What you have here is a lizard which hatched too early. It is covered in a multi-layered gelatinous sac. When it shed the sacs, it left amnionic fluid. The jumping is the typical flexional and convulsional reactions of a trapped embryo, I think of a salamander." Doron Rotem agrees, "I thought it was an embryo but of a chameleon. I reached the conclusion the whole thing was a hoax from Tziona's testimony. She told me the thing was dead from the minute she saw it. When she started talking to reporters, it miraculously came to life. And originally, she told me the creature was 5 cm tall. Suddenly it's grown to 20 cm. but it shrunk later on." My opinion is that initially Tziona was caught in UFO hysteria and imagined a lizard embryo to be an alien. Then the hucksters arrived at her door and the hoax began in earnest. Soon, a controversial laboratory opinion will be released, similar to that of the Kadima silicon, and a legend will be born. But a false one. end -------------------------------------------- Sent by Barry Chamish - Israeli journalist. Phone/Fax : (972)-2-9914936 E-Mail : chamish@netmedia.net.il --------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Defense Technical Information Center as a Resource From: Michael Ravnitzky <MikeRav@IX.NETCOM.COM> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 23:09:22 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 09:31:55 -0500 Subject: Defense Technical Information Center as a Resource DO YOU WANT A LIST OF REPORTS ON ANY SUBJECT: You can get a list of [largely unpublished] military technical reports on any subject. Many of their 2.5 million reports have been locked away for various bureaucratic reasons and have not been put into the public domain. Here are some subject keywords with which you can obtain a LIST of several hundred military technical reports on any subject from the Defense Technical Information Center, a government agency. [see below] KEYWORDS: You can get specific keywords from this site: http://www.dtic.mil/stinet/public-stinet/str/thesaurus.html or specify project names, authors names, or contractor names. But don't use that site to get reports--they don't have anything worth a damn for your purpose. IMPORTANT NOTE: Do not bother using the DTIC web site--in a nutshell, it is worthless because the web site omits most of the two million technical reports in the DTIC collection. [Most of these reports are NOT, repeat NOT, repeat NOT in the NTIS collection, and have been unavailable to the public.] Send a letter instead--you will get much better results. The fee is likely to be free or only a few bucks. You probably want to include a statement in the letter such as *I agree to pay reasonable fees associated with this request. Please notify me if the cost will exceed $25.*, so that they won't delay the processing of the request. Remember, they WILL try to dissuade you from asking for such a list. If they send you a letter, and you do not respond, they will withdraw your request and you will not get your information. Here is a form letter to use for your request: To: Defense Technical Information Center Attn: DTIC-RSM [Kelly D. Akers, FOIA Manager] 8725 John J. Kingman Road, Suite 0944 Fort Belvoir, VA 22060-6128 USA Phone: 703-767-9194 Dear Ms. Akers: I request the following records under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act: A computer generated technical report bibliography of reports on the subject[s]/keyword[s] of: ________________ OR _________________ OR ________________ OR _______________ OR _________________ OR _______________ Please send me this bibliography for this period of time: _______ ALL YEARS IN YOUR COMPUTERIZED INDEX (all years 1900-1996) _______ All the years in the manual card index (1940's and early 1950's) This is a request for DTIC records, please don't forward my request to NTIS. Please include both classified and unclassified records in your search. If any of the records are classified, please review them for release, or the release of nonsensitive portions. I am an individual, noncommercial requester and this request is not being made for commercial purposes. [OR YOU MIGHT INSTEAD INDICATE DIFFERENTLY IF YOU ARE A COMMERCIAL REQUESTER, OR AN EDUCATIONAL OR SCIENTIFIC INSTITUTION, OR A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MEDIA] I also agree to pay up to $25 for reasonable fees associated with this request. Sincerely, ______________ Hope you find this a useful resource. Michael Ravnitzky MikeRav@ix.netcom.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 New 'Abduction' & 'Encounters' Videos from John From: StarmanJC@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 02:00:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 09:33:54 -0500 Subject: New 'Abduction' & 'Encounters' Videos from John Hello, UFO fans! This is UFO Abductions researcher John Carpenter writing to you. I wanted to let you know about two NEW RELEASES from the video production team at Carpenter Research. These two new research videos are just jam-packed with great information on UFO abductions --- both from the U.S.A. and Australia (a FIRST !!).... NEW VIDEO RELEASE !!!!!!!! MULTIPLE PARTICIPANT ABDUCTIONS" by John S. Carpenter, MSW, LCSW Multiple participant abductions are accounts of alleged UFO encounters in which two or more persons share the recall of being taken aboard an unusual craft at the same time and experiencing strange beings not of this world. Initially, these witnesses share little more than an odd period of unexplained amnesia or "missing time." Separated for investigative interviews and independent hypnosis sessions, these participants are able to remember -- much to their surprise -- specific details of a shared UFO abduction scenario. They can describe the same odd beings, unique symbols, barren rooms, confusing exams, specific procedures, and extraordinary behaviors which often defy conventional physics. Experience for yourself this important area of abduction research as you meet the participants, view drawings, paintings, and photographs from their experiences, and hear the professional analysis by psychiatric therapist John Carpenter. 115 minutes $29.95 NEW VIDEO RELEASE !!!!! "ENCOUNTERS IN AUSTRALIA" by John S. Carpenter, MSW, LCSW The "Land Down Under" has not been excluded from the extraordinary mystery of UFO encounters. Despite the remote location of this island continent in the South Pacific Ocean, documented cases of skinny little gray beings with big black eyes, reptilian creatures, hybrid humanoids, and even praying mantis types all appear in the collected data. Experience the words and emotions of each witness as these encounters are revealed. Meet researchers Glennys Mackay and Keith Basterfield as they share their recent cases. Housewife Kelly Cahill suddenly found herself part of a shared abduction encounter with other people she had never met before --- but who now independently correlate and confirm her account. Therapist Elizabeth Robinson had been trying to dismiss her experiences until her own daughter and mother also reported similar encounters. And MUCH MUCH more !!! John Carpenter narrates --- blending these interviews with charming views of the scenery and wildlife of Australia. 116 minutes $29.95 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please ADD $3.00 for postage and shipping of orders (totals = $32.95) and send check or money orders to: Carpenter Research 4033 South Belvedere Ct. Springfield, MO. 65807 U.S.A. PREVIOUS RELEASES FROM CARPENTER RESEARCH: "The Face in the Window" 80 minutes $29.95 Was an alien face floating into the view of a rural farmhouse window in 1992 actually the first genuine video image of an extraterrestrial captured on film? Explore with John Carpenter the fascinating in-depth analysis of this case. Includes multiple replays (slow-motion, stop-action, enlargements) of image. "Aliens Captured in Brazil?" 113 minutes $29.95 Join in the front-line investigation as Carpenter, Stanton Friedman, and Graham Birdsall interview Vitorio Pacaccini, one of the two top investigators for the unusual crash of a UFO near Varginha, Brazil in January, 1996. Over forty first-hand witnesses (including medical, military, and civilian) described strange beings walking through their city and captured by officials. Carpenter summarizes the various encounters with drawings from the investigators and witnesses. Then, A.J. Gevaerd adds some important additional comments. "Professional Workshop for Researchers and Hypnotherapists" 120 min. $29.95 John Carpenter shares a wealth of interesting and helpful information on the field of UFO Abduction research, outlining symptoms, case material, support strategies, hypnotic and investigative procedures, special considerations, etc. This is a rare and valuable outpouring of useful information on Abductions!!! __________________________________ John, I'll e-mail you a 10% commission contract in the next coupla days <GRIN> ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Israeli 'EBE' Case A 'Hoax'? From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 00:52:52 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 09:32:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Israeli 'EBE' Case A 'Hoax'? Note: I posted both Dr. Fishman's post and Mr. Chamish post. It appears that it was not received in all places at the same time or at all. At the request of Dr. Fishman, I gladly post this supplemental information and comments. From:rayfish@cc.huji.ac.il Dear Francisco, [[PLEASE POST THIS TO THE LIST]] I am surprised that you posted this story that I sent to you without my introductory remarks; perhaps Mr. Chamish sent it to you directly, but they are important because they speak to why we are on this list; why we are interested in discovery, outside of personal/direct involvement. Mr. Chamish and I both had access to the same information, but the difference is that he stopped three days ago and decided the whole thing was a hoax. I, _despite_ the spate of journalist's coverage, am more interested in the process of discovery or interference with it, so such a conclusion is not helpful, although this story has had lots of news coverage, well out of proportion to the findings _allowed to be_ available, or as yet available. The follow-up to the story that he wrote [which I got directly from Mr. Chamish], and posted widely [without checking my quote--corrected for this list back to the original words, in copy below] is that the people who found the finding/specimen/creature/being and their representative, Uri, did tell me that they sent some of the extra-corporeal gel, but not the body of the creature, to an "highly reputable laboratory [Not the Technion] in the center of the country for analysis of DNA, RNA, and proteins." I can think of 4 of the most likely possibilities, and personally confirmed, from the side of the independent scientists that indeed a sample has been sent and is being processed. It is also true that none of the scientists want to become involved at all at this point and certainly not named [expressing sincere concern about being placed in disrepute or mad by association; a sad commentary about the powers beyond the process of pure inquiry], The results of those tests are due today, Sunday, and I am sure that you will hear about them in the news. Responding to my question, "What do you want to do with these results?", Uri said to me on Friday, "Everyone wants to know. We have waiting, CNN, SKY, NBC. If it proves to be something unknown on this earth, we will give the material to a recognized laboratory in the world and break the wall of denial." Does this show his commercial intent or true desire as a citizen of the Earth to find out the Truth? Neither, at this point. Nor are the two contradictory, given the nature of capitalism. Freezing the finding/specimen/creature/being was a pity [destroys cellular integrity], but I doubt that it was intentional. But, not allowing it to be examined immediately and thoroughly was a real blow to scientific discovery, and indeed does put the intentions of the discoverers in doubt, although that is not to deny them as "discoverers" a claim to the fame and fortune. Even the surface of the moon is claimed and for sale!! [viz 'The Moon Shop" http://www.moonshop.com/] BTW, I repeat to you as I did to Mr. Chamish, that the description of the creature's body size, the hands without fingers, mucous membranes, and convulsive flexion movements, etc, fits that of an aborted fetus or newborn of a non-human vertebrate; I wouldn't venture a guess as to the specific class of vertebrates. If it were a lizard or other Reptilian, then the remnants of egg shell might be present--ignored? not described? If it were a salamander or other lizard-like Amphibian, then there is none. Of course if someone else in the UFO community wants to really get out there and Speculate--because at this point there is no hard evidence to support anything out-of-the usual--they could say that this creature is one of the purported abortuses of a human-alien mating. Let's even go one further: that this being/creature, whether of earthly or extra-terrestrial origin, was placed in this rural area, an area replete with atmospheric and anecdotal UFO evidence. Why? Perhaps to test how we relate to it, how we handle it, how we understand it, and share the knowledge. I'm still waiting for the data to come in, but let's see how long it takes before this gets to be quoted as fact. Sincerely, rae Dr. Rachelle HB Fishman SCIENCE/COMMUNICATION The SeaView PO Box 387 Zichron Ya'akov, 30900 Israel Voice: +972-6-639-6651, Fax: +972-6-639-8880 NETmail: rayfish@cc.huji.ac.il "For the man whose knowledge is not in order, the more which he has of it, the greater will be his confusion." Herbert Spencer (1820-1903) RE: FF/sent w permission of the author Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 16:54:10 +0200 (IST) To: rayfish@vms.huji.ac.il From: Chamish Barry <chamish@netmedia.net.il> IT'S A BIRD, IT'S AN ALIEN, IT'S A FRAUD by Barry Chamish On December 22, Israel Television's First Channel Evening News program broadcast an exciting report. It seems that on a night of intense UFO activity in the Galilee farming village of Achihod, an "alien" fell from a craft and was captured by a local resident. An attractive woman, Tziona Damti was interviewed and described coming face to face with the alien the evening before, which was standing motionless just outside her father-in-law's barn. She showed her father-in-law the weird "being" and he said it was nothing. She went to sleep but in the morning returned to find the "alien" standing in the same place. So she called the police, which sent two officers to investigate. According to the conventional story, journalists monitoring the police band picked up the call and this was the start of a media event. The cops arrived and when one bent down to put the "alien" in a bucket, it jumped on his back. Officer Asher Ben Ezra told the press that the volume of bodily fluids left on the ground by the creature was abnormal and persuaded him that there was something suspicious about it. The police, apparently deciding the creature was no danger to the public peace, returned it and media circus was on. Besides the report on TV, the newspaper Maariv printed a photo of the "alien" on its front page while Yediot Ahronot devoted two pages in the center of the paper to the encounter. On the night of the TV report, I called Michael Hesemann, editor of Magazin 2000 and told him the news. He asked that I hire a cameraman and cover the story in depth. I immediately called Tziona's home and spoke to her husband Yisrael. "You'd better hurry," he said. "The body is disintegrating quickly. Most of the head has melted away." "Please," I replied, "Put the body in a nylon bag and freeze it." The next day, the Jerusalem Post reported that an "alien" was being kept in the freezer of the Damti home. The Hebrew papers also reported on UFO activity over and nearby the village. Maariv connected the UFOs with a recent wave of mysterious livestock disappearances. I arrived on time, after a three hour journey and Yisrael Damti was not at home. Tziona invited me inside and called his cellphone. He was at a laboratory of the Technion Technological Institute with fifty journalists and observers, including Uri Geller. He apologised for not meeting me but the "alien" was about to undergo a thorough autopsy. "Are you filming it? " I asked. The answer was no. "Well," I replied, "If you don't, the first link in the chain of evidence will be destroyed. You won't have a creature or proper proof that it was examined scientifically." He told me that he would ask for permission to allow me to film the examination. Why he needed permission I don't know but a few minutes later one Debby Segal phoned back. I knew her as UFO groupie who had organized a failed conference some months before. She denied me permission to film. I tried a new tack, which I came to regret very shortly after. "If this is really a space being," I said. "It's about to be chopped into pieces and you'll have nothing to show anyone. Whole, it may be very valuable to science and the Damtis. It will be a huge loss if you cut it into strips." She handed the phone to one Uri Avishai. "Yisrael only wants money, money, money," he explained. "I'm interested in truth. But let's talk money anyway. How much can he get?" "I don't know, "I answered. "My editor informed me that if I could acquire a real alien, he could bring a well known financier of UFO research into the picture." "We'll be back in half an hour. Give me Tziona." He then instructed Tziona not to allow us to film her til they arrived. It was already 2:00 in the afternoon and we had two and a half hours of sunlight left. I spent the next hour interviewing Tziona and talking UFOs. She told me the alien appeared out of nowhere and had a large,black eyes. It was originally 20 cm. long but after purging itself of an enormous volume of body fluids, had shrunk to 5 cm. The pictures I had seen had shown a green creature with lizard-like features. There were four limbs but no fingers. Five cm. is the length of a human finger and Israeli ufologist Doron Rotem was quoted in Maariv and Yediot Ahronot saying no alien yet reported was only five cm. tall. The next day he was on the early evening news program of Channel Two television debunking the incident point by point. He later told me, "After that interview I received actual threats from the UFO community. They want an Israeli Roswell and I had the nerve to say this wasn't it." Tziona went on. The creature had a human-like face and jumped away whenever anyone tried to touch it. The same night, December 21, that she discovered it, blue luminiscent discs were seen by numerous residents of the village. I took down the name of one witness. And that night, a sheep farmer, also from the Damti clan, lost fifteen of his animals without a trace. Again, I wrote down the name. Further, Uri Geller told her that in the nearby Arab town of Tamra, he was invited to see a small UFO flying inside someone's home. Clearly, there was real UFO activity in the area. And why not? Since 1987, Israel has been in the midst of a UFO wave that intensified profoundly last February. In big cities and small towns, UFOs had been filmed, physical evidence left behind and one highly likely abduction widely publicized. Until now, almost every reported incident was factual. But there were probable hoaxes. The best known example was the silicon shards found in the famous landing circles of Kadima. Between March 1993 and February 1995, at least fifteen very real landing circles were indentified in Kadima and one UFO successfully filmed. The flattened grass within the circles was imbued with a red fluid,later tested and found to be cadmium-based. Also found were shards of silvery rocks which the National Geological Laboratory director, Dr. Henry Fohner found to be of "elemental silicon which does not exist in nature." While researching Kadima, two people reported that they saw a local resident spreading the rocks into circles. Further, I saw him lead a group of researchers to an obscure circle where he told them to dig in a muddy puddle in the center. Lo and behold, silicon emerged. So I took samples to a microbiologist, Dr. Rachelle H.B. Fishman, who is the Israeli correspondent for the respected medical journal, The Lancet. She had them tested by two geologists, both of whom concluded that they were was composed of industrial-grade silicon. One problem... Tsiporet Carmel, the first of five Kadima-area witnesses of an alien being presents the best case for the validity of the silicon. "It was found in the very first circle, behind my house. He couldn't have acted that fast." Or could he? In June of last year, ufologists found the likely source of the "alien" silicon; a dump outside an electronics factory near Holon. Yisrael Damti returned with Uri, Debby and two very strange women. The first thing I said to him was, "There's ninety minutes of sunlight left. We have to start filming." Uri interrupted and said, "Relax, have some lunch first. Maybe talk to the ladies." The ladies were allies of Yuri Isaacov of Nazareth. Last summer, he was abducted by small greys who lifted him into their spacecraft and ultimately threw a yellow powder on him which made him pass out. The powder, composed of 55% aluminium was unknown in Israel and made his case believable. But it turned out, the powder burns could not be cured by conventional medicine and he was in great pain. He needed expensive medical care. Could I help? I said I'd interview him and publicize his ordeal. That's not what the ladies wanted to hear. They wanted someone to pay for an exclusive interview. When I refused to become a checkbook journalist, they left. Next was Uri's turn. He claimed he was in the Israeli UFO research business for the past 25 years, a good trick since the first recorded landings began ten years before. What he wanted more than anything else was the right to negotiate with my editor for the rights to the film and possession of the "alien" itself. I turned this huckster down twice. Clearly UFO madness had hit still another village. Last April, one Shula Cohen filmed a remarkable event in the town of Ramat Hachayal. At 3 AM, a globe appeared in the sky which lit up the whole town as if it was mid-day. After local reporters publicized the film and I tracked down a copy, her attorney contacted me and presented me with a written pledge not to publish or show the film for less than $20,000. Needless to say, I have not shown the intriguing film publicly. In August, the Shuah family filmed a UFO over their kibbutz, Hatzor for two nights and mornings running. On the third night, a crowd of over seventy kibbutzniks witnessed the UFO but the battery of the family camera wore down. A neighbour with a professional video camera was summoned and it captured one of the amazing closeups of a UFO's structure ever recorded. Word somehow spread that the film was worth $100,000 and that the television networks would start bidding. Hence, an ugly battle erupted over who owned the rights to the film, the Shuah family or their neighbour. Villagers who had got along fine for decades were suddenly at loggerheads. The same madness had hit Achihod. Whoever Uri was, he had persuaded Yisrael Damti that he was going to make him rich. And it was Damti who offered to allow me to film the creature and his wife if I promised him future payment for selling it to my editor. I refused and explained that no one, including my editor, would ever offer money without a thorough preliminary report. He agreed to bring the creature to me to be filmed. Again I waited half an hour, this time outside until Uri announced that I would not be able to even see it, let alone film it, because "I would spread doubt about its authenticity." At that moment, I knew I was dealing with a hoax. It was not the first time. To put things into perspective, I have interviewed dozens of witnesses and on only three occasions did I smell a hoax. The Kadima silicon was one, the alleged abductions of Yossi Ronen and Yossi Saguy were the other two. The Maariv UFO column, called not too originally, the X-Files, had accepted both "abductees" at their word. But nothing of their stories or their behaviour convinced me. Ronen wrote me monthly with increasingly wacky tales of outerworld experiences, until I dismissed him as a nut. I was prepared to give Saguy a chance to appear on a segment of Sightings I was arranging until his agent called to discuss conditions. It seems Saguy is an actor and being abducted was good publicity. The Achihod "alien" incident appeared to be stage-managed. Yisrael and Tziona are simple villagers and Segal and Avishai, the big city shysters. Everything was aimed at making money. I refused to play the game and walked out of the play. The next day, Segal appeared on the news and announced that an "unnamed" laboratory would offer proof of the veracity of the alien nature of Tziona's creature soon. In the meantime, Tziona announced that the alien would be put on the auction block with bids beginning at $10,000. On the way back, I stopped in Zichron Ya'acov and visited Dr. Fishman. She had seen the gel of the so-called alien on TV and pictures in the paper. "It's my opinion," she said," that a simple needle biopsy would have revealed what this is in a few hours. What you have here is probably an aborted vertebrate embryo or newborn, still covered in a multi-layered gelatinous sac. When the sac breaks or it sheds the sacs, amnionic fluid leaks out. The jumping or flipping is typical flexional and convulsive reactions of a newborn or aborted embryo, such as a salamander. Pity it was frozen. That would destroy any cell membranes of a water-based, earth-based, creature." Doron Rotem agrees, "I thought it was an embryo but of a chameleon. I reached the conclusion the whole thing was a hoax from Tziona's testimony. She told me the thing was dead from the minute she saw it. When she started talking to reporters, it miraculously came to life. And originally, she told me the creature was 5 cm tall. Suddenly it's grown to 20 cm. but it shrunk later on." My opinion is that initially Tziona was caught in UFO hysteria and imagined a lizard embryo to be an alien. Then the hucksters arrived at her door and the hoax began in earnest. Soon, a controversial laboratory opinion will be released, similar to that of the Kadima silicon, and a legend will be born. But a false one. end -------------------------------------------- Sent by Barry Chamish - Israeli journalist. Phone/Fax : (972)-2-9914936 E-Mail : chamish@netmedia.net.il --------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:25:26 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:48:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members On Sun, 29 Dec 1996, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > >From: Rob McConnell <misterx@WarpLink.com> > > >I must reply to this "masterpiece of misinformation" that the writer is > >trying to pass the buck of the poor reporting of UFO by the media to the > >source where it actually belongs.....people within so-called UFO > >organizations who have no idea of what they are looking for or looking at. > > >Now, as a journalist, broadcaster and parapasychologist, I too am > >concerned with the misinformation that gets to the media and the manner in > >which members of "ufology reporting clubs" gather their information and > >distribute it with their own hidden agendas. > > [snip] > > This is classic 'Pot Calling Kettle Black'..... McConnell > is a the "journalist, broadcaster and parapasychologist" > who boot-legged phoney 'Aurora' photos from Graham Birdsall's > 'UFO Magazine', printed them in his 'newspaper', and spent > a full half-hour rhapsodizing about them on his 'radio show'. > This while apparently knowing their real source. > If this was the least of his problem. In one issue of his paper he copied, verbatium, an article written by Trey Stokes of the Truly Dangerous Company. Not only did he print it without Trey's permission, but McConnell published the article under his own name. McConnell is a poor choice for reasonable journalism.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Eyewitness Testimony From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 16:32:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:49:11 -0500 Subject: Eyewitness Testimony Many thanks to John Powell for posting such fascinating studies! The ones on eyewitness testimony set me thinking. The data in them was familiar, in a general way. And of course it's supported both by experience, and common sense. And yet....each day, the sun rises and the sun sets. (Or at least that's what the eyewitness testimony says.) Life goes on. On Christmas day, my sister told me what, she said, a neurologist had told her about our mother (91 years old, and fading). My aunt Judy told a lengthy tale about a horrid shopping trip. My brother in law had a lot to say about the New York Rangers, especially about how Mark Messier and Wayne Gretzky are rarely on the ice together. Eyewitness testimony, all of it...and yet I believed it all. Why shouldn't I? We're surrounded by eyewitness testimony. Somehow, we live with it. Every day, it helps decide cases in court. Every day, in businesses everywhre, a vice president sends her deputy to check out the plant in Tennessee. He might take notes on what he sees, but she may ask him about details he didn't write down. Very likely she'll believe his answers, even though they're eyewitness testimony. The Mets, this year, acquired Carlos Baerga in a trade. Supposedly he'd passed his prime. They asked around about him (since he played in the American League, they didn't have much chance to watch him play). Reports were good. And even though those reports were eyewitness testimony, they made the trade. My friend Jesse, an experienced orchestra manager, gave me information I needed for professional reasons, about a conductor and a pianist who appeared with the New York Philharmonic. He offered many details about the music they made, complete with comments afterward from a member of the orchestra. Eyewitness testimony yet again...and yet somewhow I believed him. Now, in these last three cases, there's another factor operating. We're talking about professionals, remembering details about their specialties. We might expect them to be accurate. Still, eyewitness testimony of one kind or another is offered everywhere, constantly, and most of us have no need to disbelieve it. Except...when Jesse told me once he'd seen a ghost, I didn't know what to think. It didn't matter that Jesse is down to earth, and completely uninterested in the paranormal. It didn't matter that his girlfriend corrorborated both his fright -- completely unlike him -- and some very odd details, like the bed they slept in shaking. I knew that bed, since this all happened in a country house that I was renting. The bed was massive, and, beyond its size, weighed down with, I'm told, many hundred pounds of iron (since the owner of the house had a mystical belief that one should sleep on magnets). I'd slept in this bed many times. Not even when hundred-car freight trains thundered by just 30 feet from the house did the bed vibrate. Now both Jesse and Nora swore to me it shook, and shook violently. But I don't know about ghosts, so I didn't know what to think. Similarly, in my industrial episode. Patricia, the vice president, believes everything Herb, her deputy, tells her about the plant in Tennessee. But now he says he saw a UFO. Close up. With aliens getting out of it. Does she believe him then? My point is simply this. When it comes to things we don't deal with every day, our belief in eyewitness testimony takes a plunge. That's as it should be, I guess. If you're going to believe in something extraordinary, maybe you need more than just your trusted deputy telling you it's so. But for the paramormal, I suspect that barriers are raised artificially high. Anyone who's read Jeffrey Mishlove's revised edition of his book "The Roots of Consciousness" might remember the section on parapsychology research. Mishlove quotes even scientific skeptics as saying that the barriers were raised. The question always asked is whether there was fraud. Results of apparently careful experiments still are questioned. Did the experimenters absolutely rule out fraud? It's easy, Mishlove says, to find ways in which they didn't. Which appears to make sense, until you wonder why the same questions aren't asked of physicists. Did their experiments rule out fraud? As I said, even scientific skeptics wondered if this was fair. The subtext clearly seems to be (in skeptics' minds) that ESP and other parapsychological phenomena are so unlikely to be real that fraud -- otherwise not an overwhelming concern in science -- is the most likely explanation for experiments that seem to demonstrate that reality. With UFOs, I've seen the data about eyewitness testimony misused in two ways. First, there are times when it's conveniently ignored. FRank Kaufmann, the controversial Roswell witness, says he saw a radar screen light up when the alien craft was hit by lightning. His truthfulness has been questioned, because he said that. Experts say that radar screens just wouldn't light up as he described. Remember, though, that eyewitness testimony is fallible -- and especially might be in this case, when someone talks 40 years later about an event with great emotional significance for him. Why couldn't Kaufmann's tale about the radar screen just be a trick of memory? Maybe the blip flared very slightly, and Kaufmann, after half a lifetime, exaggerates what happened, even to himself. In a case never publicly discussed, as far as I know, a friend told me she had seen a classic flying saucer hovering just outside her apartment window when she was in college (somewhere in Michigan). My reaction, interestingly enough, is not to know what to think. Certainly I can't verify that she's telling the truth, or that she didn't hallucinate the sighting. She also says her roommate was there with her, and saw the flying saucer, too. Now suppose we find the roommate. My friend said the craft had red and green lights, rotating undernearth it. Suppose her roommate says that they were red and orange. Immediately, some skeptics will throw the sighting out. The witnesses don't corroborate each other...even though that's exactly what should be expected with fallible eyewitness testimony! The lights might have been red, orange, and green. Each woman could remember part of that. Here's the second way that data about eyewitness testimony can be misused. The established fact that it's fallible can be cited as if it were evidence that a sighting isn't what it's claimed to be. Phil Klass did that with me. I'd asked him about the Chiles-Whitted case, in which two airline pilots said they saw a cylindral craft with windows shoot by their plane at night. (This happened in 1948.) Klass, in his book UFOs Explained, says they saw a meteor, which, for all we know, they might have. But he doesn't simply say that this is his opinion. He says that a meteor is what the pilots "incontrovertibly" saw. I wondered how he could be so certain. He never really answered that. But he did say, over and over and over, that eyewitness testimony is unreliable. He told anecdote after anecdote. Somehow, the fact that testimony isn't always accurate became, in his mind, a reason to be certain the pilots didn't see what they thought they saw...which is nonsense, of course. It shows us that they could have been mistaken, not that they had to be. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:14:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 12:14:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > >From: Rob McConnell <misterx@WarpLink.com> > >I must reply to this "masterpiece of misinformation" [...] > [snip] > This is classic 'Pot Calling Kettle Black'..... McConnell > is a the "journalist, broadcaster and parapasychologist" > who boot-legged phoney 'Aurora' photos from Graham Birdsall's > 'UFO Magazine', printed them in his 'newspaper', and spent > a full half-hour rhapsodizing about them on his 'radio show'. > This while apparently knowing their real source. HAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!! Thanks EBK, I needed that <GRIN>! -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Panel from Temple at Abydios, Egypt Depicts From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 12:10:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 12:10:38 -0500 Subject: Panel from Temple at Abydios, Egypt Depicts Thanks to Steve Wingate for the lead on the following: ebk _____________________________________________ From: The 'Insearch of...' Website Established by Dr. Dan Woolman, Ph.D. Physics http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/hamilton/ancientaircraft_nf.html ----- ANCIENT AIRCRAFT Our resident MUFON psychologist and hypnotherapist, Dr. Ruth Hover, and her husband took a trip to the pyramids and temples of Egypt. In the temple at Abydios, she photographed a wall panel in a section where an overlaying panel with Egyptian hieroglyphics crumbled and fell, revealing an older panel beneath it. This older panel, shown below, contains embossed images of what appear to be ancient aircraft. A small model of what has been called a "glider" plane was found in a museum in Cairo. Its body was just over 6" long and its wingspan was a little over 7". Made of light sycamore wood, it would glide a short distance when thrown by hand. Other models of aircraft have been found in Egypt and South America. One of them bears a striking resemblance to a modern delta-winged jet! More will be added later. Read below about the ancient aircraft of India. ANCIENT VIMANA AIRCRAFT Contributed by John Burrows Sanskrit texts are filled with references to gods who fought battles in the sky using Vimanas equipped with weapons as deadly as any we can deploy in these more enlightened times. For example, there is a passage in the Ramayana which reads: "The Puspaka car that resembles the Sun and belongs to my brother was brought by the powerful Ravan; that aerial and excellent car going everywhere at will .... that car resembling a bright cloud in the sky." ".. and the King [Rama] got in, and the excellent car at the command of the Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere." In the Mahabharatra, an ancient Indian poem of enormous length, we learn that an individual named Asura Maya had a Vimana measuring twelve cubits in circumference, with four strong wheels. The poem is a veritable gold mine of information relating to conflicts between gods who settled their differences apparently using weapons as lethal as the ones we are capable of deploying. Apart from 'blazing missiles', the poem records the use of other deadly weapons. 'Indra's Dart' operated via a circular 'reflector'. When switched on, it produced a 'shaft of light' which, when focused on any target, immediately 'consumed it with its power'. In one particular exchange, the hero, Krishna, is pursuing his enemy, Salva, in the sky, when Salva's Vimana, the Saubha is made invisible in some way. Undeterred, Krishna immediately fires off a special weapon: 'I quickly laid on an arrow, which killed by seeking out sound'. Many other terrible weapons are described, quite matter of factly, in the Mahabharata, but the most fearsome of all is the one used against the Vrishis. The narrative records: "Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendour. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas." It is important to note, that these kinds of records are not isolated. They can be cross-correlated with similar reports in other ancient civilizations. The after-affects of this Iron Thunderbolt have an ominously recognizable ring. Apparently, those killed by it were so burnt that their corpses were unidentifiable. The survivors fared little better, as it caused their hair and nails to fall out. Perhaps the most disturbing and challenging, information about these allegedly mythical Vimanas in the ancient records is that there are some matter-of-fact records, describing how to build one. In their way, the instructions are quite precise. In the Sanskrit Samarangana Sutradhara, it is written: "Strong and durable must the body of the Vimana be made, like a great flying bird of light material. Inside one must put the mercury engine with its iron heating apparatus underneath. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky. The movements of the Vimana are such that it can vertically ascend, vertically descend, move slanting forwards and backwards. With the help of the machines human beings can fly in the air and heavenly beings can come down to earth." The Hakatha (Laws of the Babylonians) states quite unambiguously: "The privilege of operating a flying machine is great. The knowledge of flight is among the most ancient of our inheritances. A gift from 'those from upon high'. We received it from them as a means of saving many lives." More fantastic still is the information given in the ancient Chaldean work, The Sifrala, which contains over one hundred pages of technical details on building a flying machine. It contains words which translate as graphite rod, copper coils, crystal indicator, vibrating spheres, stable angles, etc. Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology >From The Anti-Gravity Handbook by D. Hatcher Childress Many researchers into the UFO enigma tend to overlook a very important fact. While it assumed that most flying saucers are of alien, or perhaps Governmental Military origin, another possible origin of UFOs is ancient India and Atlantis. What we know about ancient Indian flying vehicles comes from ancient Indian sources; written texts that have come down to us through the centuries. There is no doubt that most of these texts are authentic; many are the well known ancient Indian Epics themselves, and there are literally hundreds of them. Most of them have not even been translated into English yet from the old sanskrit. The Indian Emperor Ashoka started a "Secret Society of the Nine Unknown Men": great Indian scientists who were supposed to cataloged the many sciences. Ashoka kept their work secret because he was afraid that the advanced science catalogued by these men, culled from ancient Indian sources, would be used for the evil purpose of war, which Ashoka was strongly against, having been converted to Buddhism after defeating a rival army in a bloody battle. The "Nine Unknown Men" wrote a total of nine books, presumably one each. Book number was "The Secrets of Gravitation!" This book, known to historians, but not actually seen by them dealt chiefly with "gravity control." It is presumably still around somewhere, kept in a secret library in India, Tibet or elsewhere (perhaps even in North America somewhere). One can certainly understand Ashoka's reasoning for wanting to keep such knowledge a secret, assuming it exists. Ashoka was also aware of devastating wars using such advanced vehicles and other "futuristic weapons" that had destroyed the ancient Indian "Rama Empire" several thousand years before. Only a few years ago, the Chinese discovered some sanskrit documents in Lhasa, Tibet and sent them to the University of Chandrigarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna of the University said recently that the documents contain directions for building interstellar spaceships! Their method of propulsion, she said, was "anti- gravitational" and was based upon a system analogous to that of "laghima," the unknown power of the ego existing in man's physiological makeup, "a centrifugal force strong enough to counteract all gravitational pull." According to Hindu Yogis, it is this "laghima" which enables a person to levitate. Dr. Reyna said that on board these machines, which were called "Astras" by the text, the ancient Indians could have sent a detachment of men onto any planet, according to the document, which is thought to be thousands of years old. The manuscripts were also said to reveal the secret of "antima"; "the cap of invisibility" and "garima"; "how to become as heavy as a mountain of lead." Naturally, Indian scientists did not take the texts very seriously, but then became more positive about the value of them when the Chinese announced that they were including certain parts of the data for study in their space program! This was one of the first instances of a government admitting to be researching anti-gravity. The manuscripts did not say definitely that interplanetary travel was ever made but did mention, of all things, a planned trip to the Moon, though it is not clear whether this trip was actually carried out. However, one of the great Indian epics,the Ramayana, does have a highly detailed story in it of a trip to the moon in a Vimana (or "Astra"), and in fact details a battle on the moon with an "Asvin" (or Atlantean") airship. This is but a small bit of recent evidence of anti-gravity and aerospace technology used by Indians. To really understand the technology, we must go much further back in time. The so-called "Rama Empire" of Northern India and Pakistan developed at least fifteen thousand years ago on the Indian subcontinent and was a nation of many large, sophisticated cities, many of which are still to be found in the deserts of Pakistan, northern, and western India. Rama existed, apparently, parallel to the Atlantean civilization in the mid- Atlantic Ocean, and was ruled by "enlightened Priest-Kings" who governed the cities, The seven greatest capital cities of Rama were known in classical Hindu texts as "The Seven Rishi Cities." According to ancient Indian texts, the people had flying machines which were called "Vimanas." The ancient Indian epic describes a Vimana as a double-decked, circular aircraft with portholes and a dome, much as we would imagine a flying saucer. It flew with the "speed of the wind" and gave forth a"melodious sound." There were at least four different types of Vimanas; some saucer shaped, others like long cylinders ("cigar shaped airships"). The ancient Indian texts on Vimanas are so numerous, it would take volumes to relate what they had to say. The ancient Indians, who manufactured these ships themselves, wrote entire flight manuals on the control of the various types of Vimanas, many of which are still in existence, and some have even been translated into English. The Samara Sutradhara is a scientific treatise dealing with every possible angle of air travel in a Vimana. There are 230 stanzas dealing with the construction, take-off, cruising for thousand of miles, normal and forced landings, and even possible collisions with birds. In 1875, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise, using even older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India. It dealt with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering, precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and lightning and how to switch the drive to "solar energy" from a free energy source which sounds like "anti-gravity." The Vaimanika Sastra (or Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas. This document has been translated into English and is available by writing the publisher: VYMAANIDASHAASTRA AERONAUTICS by Maharishi Bharadwaaja, translated into English and edited, printed and published by Mr. G. R.Josyer, Mysore, India, 1979 (sorry, no street address). Mr. Josyer is the director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Investigation, located in Mysore. There seems to be no doubt that Vimanas were powered by some sort of "anti-gravity." Vimanas took off vertically, and were capable of hovering in the sky, like a modern helicopter or dirigible. Bharadvajy the Wise refers to no less than 70 authorities and 10 experts of air travel in antiquity. These sources are now lost. Vimanas were kept in a Vimana Griha, a kind of hanger, and were sometimes said to be propelled by a yellowish-white liquid, and sometimes by some sort of mercury compound, though writers seem confused in this matter. It is most likely that the later writers on Vimanas, wrote as observers and from earlier texts, and were understandably confused on the principle of their propulsion. The "yellowish- white liquid" sounds suspiciously like gasoline, and perhaps Vimanas had a number of different propulsion sources, including combustion engines and even "pulse-jet" engines. It is interesting to note, that the Nazis developed the first practical pulse-jet engines for their V-8 rocket "buzz bombs." Hitler and the Nazi staff were exceptionally interested in ancient India and Tibet and sent expeditions to both these places yearly, starting in the 30's, in order to gather esoteric evidence that they did so, and perhaps it was from these people that the Nazis gained some of their scientific information! According to the Dronaparva, part of the Mahabarata, and the Ramayana, one Vimana described was shaped like a sphere and born along at great speed on a mighty wind generated by mercury. It moved like a UFO, going up, down, backwards and forwards as the pilot desired. In another Indian source, the Samar, Vimanas were "iron machines, well-knit and smooth, with a charge of mercury that shot out of the back in the form of a roaring flame." Another work called the Samaranganasutradhara describes how the vehicles were constructed. It is possible that mercury did have something to do with the propulsion, or more possibly, with the guidance system. Curiously, Soviet scientists have discovered what they call "age old instruments used in navigating cosmic vehicles" in caves in Turkestan and the Gobi Desert. The "devices" are hemispherical objects of glass or porcelain, ending in a cone with a drop of mercury inside. It is evident that ancient Indians flew around in these vehicles, all over Asia, to Atlantis presumably; and even, apparently, to South America.Writing found at Mohenjodaro in Pakistan (presumed to be one of the "Seven Rishi Cities of the Rama Empire") and still un-deciphered, has also been found in one other place in the world: Easter Island! Writing on Easter Island, called Rongo-Rongo writing, is also un-deciphered, and is uncannily similar to the Mohenjodaro script. Was Easter Island an air base for the Rama Empire's Vimana route? (At the Mohenjo- Daro Vimana-drome, as the passenger walks down the concourse, he hears the sweet, melodic sound of the announcer over the loudspeaker,"Rama Airways flight number seven for Bali, Easter Island, Nazca, and Atlantis is now ready for boarding. Passengers please proceed to gate number..") in Tibet, no small distance, and speaks of the "fiery chariot" thus: "Bhima flew along in his car, resplendent as the sun and loud as thunder... The flying chariot shone like a flame in the night sky of summer ... it swept by like a comet... It was as if two suns were shining. Then the chariot rose up and all the heaven brightened." In the Mahavira of Bhavabhuti, a Jain text of the eighth century culled from older texts and traditions, we read: "An aerial chariot, the Pushpaka, conveys many people to the capital of Ayodhya. The sky is full of stupendous flying-machines, dark as night,but picked out by lights with a yellowish glare." The Vedas, ancient Hindu poems, thought to be the oldest of all the Indian texts, describe Vimanas of various shapes and sizes: the "ahnihotravimana" with two engines, the"elephant-vimana" with more engines, and other types named after the kingfisher, ibis and other animals. Unfortunately, Vimanas, like most scientific discoveries, were ultimately used for war. Atlanteans used their flying machines, "Vailixi," a similar type of aircraft, to literally try and subjugate the world, it would seem, if Indian texts are to be believed. The Atlanteans, known as "Asvins" in the Indian writings, were apparently even more advanced technologically than the Indians, and certainly of a more war-like temperament. Although no ancient texts on Atlantean Vailixi are known to exist, some information has come down through esoteric, "occult" sources which describe their flying machines. Similar, if not identical to Vimanas, Vailixi were generally "cigar shaped" and had the capability of manoeuvering underwater as well as in the atmosphere or even outer space. Other vehicles, like Vimanas, were saucer shaped, and could apparently also be submerged.According to Eklal Kueshana, author of "The Ultimate Frontier," in an article he wrote in 1966, Vailixi were first developed in Atlantis 20,000 years ago, and the most common ones are "saucer shaped of generally trapezoidal cross- section with three hemispherical engine pods on the underside." "They use a mechanical antigravity device driven by engines developing approximately 80,000 horse power." The Ramayana, Mahabarata and other texts speak of the hideous war that took place, some ten or twelve thousand years ago between Atlantis and Rama using weapons of destruction that could not be imagined by readers until the second half of this century. The ancient Mahabharata, one of the sources on Vimanas, goes on to tell the awesome destructiveness of the war: "...(the weapon was) a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as the thousand suns rose in all its splendour... An iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.... the corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without apparent cause, and the birds turned white.... after a few hours all foodstuffs were infected.... to escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment..." It would seem that the Mahabharata is describing an atomic war! References like this one are not isolated; but battles, using a fantastic array of weapons and aerial vehicles are common in all the epic Indian books. One even describes a Vimana-Vailix battle on the Moon! The above section very accurately describes what an atomic explosion would look like and the effects of the radioactivity on the population. Jumping into water is the only respite. When the Rishi City of Mohenjodaro was excavated by archaeologists in the last century, they found skeletons just lying in the streets, some of them holding hands, as if some great doom had suddenly overtaken them. These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on a par with those found at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Ancient cities whose brick and stonewalls have literally been vitrified, that is-fused together, can be found in India, Ireland, Scotland, France, Turkey and other places. There is no logical explanation for the vitrification of stone forts and cities, except from an atomic blast. Futhermore, at Mohenjo-Daro, a well planned city laid on a grid, with a plumbing system superior to those used in Pakistan and India today, the streets were littered with "black lumps of glass." These globs of glass were discovered to be clay pots that had melted under intense heat! With the cataclysmic sinking of Atlantis and the wiping out of Rama with atomic weapons, the world collapsed into a "stone age" of sorts, and modern history picks up a few thousand years later Yet, it would seem that not all the Vimanas and Vailixi of Rama and Atlantis were gone. Built to last for thousands of years, many of them would still be in use, as evidenced by Ashoka's "Nine Unknown Men" and the Lhasa manuscript. That secret societies or "Brotherhoods" of exceptional, "enlightened" human beings would have preserved these inventions and the knowledge of science, history, etc., does not seem surprising. Many well known historical personages including Jesus, Buddah, Lao Tzu, Confucious, Krishna, Zoroaster, Mahavira, Quetzalcoatl, Akhenaton, Moses, and more recent inventors and of course many other people who will probably remain anonymous, were probably members of such a secret organization. It is interesting to note that when Alexander the Great invaded India more than two thousand years ago, his historians chronicled that at one point they were attacked by "flying,fiery shields" that dove at his army and frightened the cavalry. These "flying saucers" did not use any atomic bombs or beam weapons on Alexander's army however, perhaps out of benevolence, and Alexander went on to conquer India.It has been suggested by many writers that these "Brotherhoods" keep some of their Vimanas and Vailixi in secret caverns in Tibet or some other place is Central Asia, and the Lop Nor Desert in western China is known to be the centre of a great UFO mystery. Perhaps it is here that many of the airships are still kept, in underground bases much as the Americans, British and Soviets have built around the world in the past few decades. Still, not all UFO activity can be accounted for by old Vimanas making trips to the Moon for some reason. End of John Burrow's contribution. >From NEXUS New Times (Dec 1996): An article in this magazine reveals that unknown alloys have been revealed in ancient palm leaf manuscripts. The writer and Sanskrit scholar Subramanyam Iyer has spent many years of his life deciphering old collections of palm leaves found in the villages of his native Karnataka in southern India. One of the palm leaf manuscripts they intend to decipher is the Amsu Bodhini, which, according to an anonymous text of 1931, contains information about the planets; the different kinds of light, heat, color, and electromagnetic fields; the methods used to construct machines capable of attracting solar rays and, in turn, of analysing and separating their energy components; the possibility of conversing with people in remote places and sending messages by cable; and the manufacture of machines to transport people to other planets! 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 16:49:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:08:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members To the originator of the following posting (I am not sure if it is Rob or Francisco...my apologies.), Pleased be advised that the following comments are not in support of any UFO organization specifically but, are rather, made regarding certain specific points you have made in this post. Whoever wrote this sounds like an honest person and so am I. Jerry Cohen - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 23:22:14 -0500 (EST) >From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members >Should Know >From: Rob McConnell <misterx@WarpLink.com> >I must reply to this "masterpiece of misinformation" that the writer is >trying to pass the buck of the poor reporting of UFO by the media to the >source where it actually belongs.....people within so-called UFO >organizations who have no idea of what they are looking for or looking at. JC: In a number of instances one can agree. Historically speaking, verified, legitimate UFO sightings number a relatively small percentage. ........ >A perfect example of this is when there were multiple sightings over the >Gulf of Mexico from the beaches of Florida and Alabama. The sights were >rather spectacular to those who made the initial reports, the home >videographers as well as the "self acclaimed ufologists" who "documented" >these mysterious lights in the sky. The roblem is that they should have >investigated the matter before releasing their "misinformation" to the >media. They were not UFO's but NASA launches that are done from the back >of a 747 at 40,000 feet. ....... JC: O.K. >Now, as a journalist, broadcaster and parapasychologist, I too am >concerned with the misinformation that gets to the media and the manner in >which members of "ufology reporting clubs" gather their information and >distribute it with their own hidden agendas. JC: O.K. And these agendas, are they all the same for each and every one of these groups? >Over the years, I have had several members of UFO clubs, or as they are >refered to in the Niagara Area "coffe club members" JC: By whom? >who have taken >photographs of "strange lights" over Lake Ontario. These people, by their >own admission and the presentation of "UFO Club" membership cards to the >media, have dampened the credibility of UFO researchers who actually know >what they are doing - and there are not many of them. JC: Ah, but you yourself have admitted there are at least "some." As a matter of fact, there are specific reasons, historically speaking, why this entire situation exists as it does today. The reasons have been clearly laid out in a reply I posted to James Oberg (NASA) in rebuttal to an essay he posted regarding Astronaut Gordon Cooper. Mr. Oberg's essay, because of a lack of adequate historical knowledge concerning the subject of UFOs, contained areas of misinformation which led him to make certain "incorrect" statements. I was wondering if you ever read the Oberg/Cooper series? If not, I'd be happy to forward it to you. >On one show, a Director of an International UFO Organization who was >identified in a recent book as having video tape footage of the >Brookhaven, Long Island incident, told me that in order to try and get to >the bottom of the Area 51 mystery, he actually tresspassed on private >property and was proud of it. He was a person who was saying that the >conspiracy of the Area 51 was against the law in the manner that the >government was hiding the truth from their citizens. I asked him, "so, >inorder to prove that the government is breaking the law and that there is >a conspiracy, it's alright for you to tresspass on the private property of >the US Government there by breaking the law?" There was a pause and no >answer was brought forthwith. JC: I personally believe this is a point well-taken. None of us should be breaking the law. >There are also the hundreds of "ufologist" who have no idea what they are >looking at and since they cannot identify it, it must be a ufo....please! JC: Actually, to them, if they could not identify it, it was in fact an Unidentified Flying Object. >The majority of the "members of Ufology clubs" have no idea about the >proper procedures for taking photographs, the proper use of 35 mm cameras, >nor the use of home video equipment. JC: People that belong to any organization are simply people. They are human. How about the ones that follow the proper procedures for taking photographs, properly use 35 mm cameras & home video equipment? By percentages alone they can't all be incompetent. I do not think that most people will agree that they are all quite as inept as you are portraying them. >On a national newscast, one scientist >stated that if you want to see a UFO, it seems all you have to do is pay >the annual fee to a UFO Organization and you can call yourself a UFO >Researcher - balderdash. JC: First of all, seeing a UFO and being a researcher are two different things. You are making a blanket statement here to cover "everyone" but this is a generality. How about the legitimate researchers? Whether few or not, these researchers do exist and have discovered some very "interesting" facts of which most people, including some "well-known" commentators on the subject, are not fully aware. "These people have the same IQ as the people >throughout the mid-western states who are parked in their pick-ups, >drinking a 60 oz of their favourite mash and then claim to see a UFO. JC: Are you saying that all mid-western folks who park in pick-ups all drink 60 oz of "whatever" and are sub intelligent? I don't wish to cause you any difficulty, however, a few mid-westerners may take offense to this remark. >In fact," he continued, "I would believe the people in the pick-up before I >would consider the report of a UFO organization member simply because, the >people in the truck did not have to pay a fee to become a UFO >'researcher'...." JC: In other words, in your mind, any person who belongs to a UFO organization falls into this category, even if he is an intelligent, legitimate researcher who has joined to keep in touch with what people are claiming has occurred and to receive a particular group's journal to that end? I would hope this is too generalized for most people's thinking. Hmmn? How about people who earn money for the articles and books they write? Should we disqualify them as well? By your logic, they too are tainted. That would eliminate an awful lot of people. >The author of this article used an example of how Walt Andrus of MUFON was >approached by a reporter from a newspaper in Pensacola, Florida, who >wanted to interview him on the Gulf Breeze sightings. The fact that he >absolutely claimed to know nothing about the case is a way that reporters >feel out the credibility of the source, which is done daily....not only to >the poor people of MUFOn, but to other people who have in the news, with >newsworthy stories.....stories that can be authenticated. We are no longer >in the days of blind reporting. Sorry. JC: By the way, as I mentioned at the outset, I am not a member of MUFON so these next comments are not coming from a "MUFONite" and thus biased in this regard. Are you saying you know the specific reporter that interviewed Mr. Andrus had researched his facts and had a solid background in UFO history? I am sure what you have said is true about many honest journalists and reporters. However, although you may not want to believe what was written in "Handling the news media......," I have a friend who had a first hand experience with this exact sort of thing. (It had nothing to do with UFOs.) The friend was a musician in a band that was playing at a large prestigious museum in NYC. A reporter covering the scene came up and started talking to the group asking each member of the group various questions. The group was thrilled to be interviewed by the reporter and to be performing in this place as it was a prestigious engagement which could generate much more work for them. As the band members were standing together, the friendly reporter asked several of them how they liked playing in this particular museum. The majority, said they were thrilled. One of the band members agreed wholeheartedly with the others and then mentioned, as an aside, "musically it is a little difficult for us to perform here as the acoustics of the museum, with its high ceilings, create a lot of echo making it difficult for us to hear ourselves as we are playing. But everything is going well and we are really happy to be here. People seem very pleased." That comment was the only negative thing any of the band members had to say about their experience performing in the museum. The "friendly" reporter and band parted congenially and several days later, an article appeared in a well-known newspaper. Much to their consternation, the following headline appeared: "NAME OF MUSEUM ... not good enough for NAME OF BAND." The entire article had a completely negative bias and ruined that band's chances for further work from that museum. Evidently, the reporter was looking for something that he could use to prove to his boss that he was a great investigative reporter and that the boss should use him in this capacity. It didn't matter whether the truth was bent out of shape a little bit. This event was related to me by a friend whom I know very well, is a really nice person, generally open and honest and proves to me, what many people have learned if they have a job that deals with people, that this does happen, and more often than some of us would like to admit. >This article is the ufologists guide to self destruction and if a member >of a UFO organization wants to have himself/herself taken seriously - then >take the time and the patience to properly gather the evidence pertaining >to the sighting. JC: Allowing that the group in question may have misidentified the object(s) in question; Shouldn't a good reporter cross-check external sources before he reports his material to make sure the material he has printed or reported is correct? It doesn't seem as though erroneous reporting is solely the province of the UFO organization or group who was interviewed. Don't forget the basic questions in jounralism and >broadcasting: WHO? WHAT? WHEN? WHERE? WHY? HOW? > >Ironically the majority of UFOLOGIST scream for Freedom of Information to >expose the alleged government conspiracy. JC: Actually it was legitimate research by legitimate scientists that led them to that conclusion. One of them was a consultant to the Air Force for approximately 20 years. >Well "light watchers".....haven't you heard of FREEDOM OF THE PRESS? >Besides, the media is responsible fo rwhat they print and air - unlike the >reports that "the majority" of ufo researchers take. JC: To a point, concerning things that can be easily proven and verified. But a reporter is human and can be as biased as the next person. >The difference is - professionalism. JC: Ah, yes.. that we were all as professional as each other. Does this mean that all reporters are totally professional all of the time? Just because you pay a fee does not >make you an expert. JC: Absolutely. >The knowledge that you seek can only be obtained >through credible courses. Please, CONSUMERS BEWARE - people in authority >will not take you seriously unless you can present your article, your >report or your "evidence (?)" in a credible manner. JC: I have to again ask whether you read my "Oberg/Cooper series." The research that went into it was most thorough and credible. Footnotes were abundant and all material spoken about within can be totally verified as to their authenticity. >And one more bit of information, there is something called a "PSE" >psychological strss evaluator" that i sused to electronically tell based >on simple question asked in the preamble of the interview or reporting of >an event that various people use to authenticate the callers credibility >before the matter is even considered as news worthy. JC: Sounds like the same electronic gadget that was used to verify statements Travis Walton made regarding his UFO case in 1975. I am sure it works. Thank you for taking the time to read my reply to your posting. Let me know if you would like a copy of that series. I also have Mr. Oberg's original essay if you so desire it. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Subscribe UFO UpDates From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:09:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:09:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Subscribe UFO UpDates At 22:15 12-29-96 GMT, you wrote: >Hi, >Could you subscribe me to the UFO UpDates mailing list. You may have noticed it has been done. <G> Welcome to the List
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re" Panel from Temple at Abydios, Egypt Depicts From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:49:00 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:06:32 -0500 Subject: Re" Panel from Temple at Abydios, Egypt Depicts UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Thanks to Steve Wingate for the lead on > the following: > ebk > _____________________________________________ > From: The 'Insearch of...' Website > Established by Dr. Dan Woolman, Ph.D. Physics > http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/hamilton/ancientaircraft_nf.html > ----- Before we go riding off into the clouds on Vimanas, maybe Drs. Hover and Woolman could tells us what the documenters of this temple interpreted this panel to mean. Seems to me we need to hear both sides before we ride away on a cloud of speculation. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Malta UFO Research Web Site URL change From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:20:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:03:49 -0500 Subject: Malta UFO Research Web Site URL change NOTICE : Malta UFO Research Web Site URL change Malta UFO Research's web site has moved to a more efficient, high-speed server based in the US. We now have our own domain name! Please change your links or bookmarks to point to the new URL as the old address will become invalid soon. Malta UFO Research - http://www.mufor.org/ Besides information on UFO sightings over the Maltese Islands, our site has a number of Mars & Lunar anomalies pages which are an excellent "starting point" for anyone who wants to know what is going on in this area of research. At our pages you may sign 2 petitions coordinated by Aaron Johnson asking NASA to rephotograph the Cydonia region on Mars and land Mars Pathfinder there. To date, 860 people have already accessed the petitions. We are also the home of The ________ Project, a small group of people who are trying to privately send a small spacecraft to Mars. We have been told that this is impossible, but we'll try all the same and with your help we may succeed! Check out the Project Naming competition. The _________ Project - http://www.mufor.org/mars.html If lunar anomalies or TLPs (Transient Lunar Phenomena) interest you, then be sure to visit the Transient Lunar Phenomena database transcribed from NASA Technical Report R-277. With 579 reports from 1540 to 1969, this is the only resource of its kind on the WWW! NASA Technical Report R-277 - http://www.mufor.org/tlp/lunar.html Are you looking for a UFO book? Then visit our book store! In association with Amazon.com, we are offering some 45 UFO related books for sale and this number is always on the increase. Amazon.com is the largest and best on-line book store, so you won't be disappointed if you place an order with them through our page! Book Store - http://www.mufor.org/store.html And finally .. visit our sponsor, DataPadd Computer Systems at : DataPadd Computer Systems - http://www.mufor.org/datapadd/ Season's Greetings from everyone at Malta UFO Research!! .----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '----------------------------------------------------' *MUFOR Web site: http://www.mufor.org/ * *TLP Database : http://www.mufor.org/tlp/lunar.html * *E-mail : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * *IRC Channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * *Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. *Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * *Postal Address: P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 E.T. finally calls...a true believer collects From: legion@werple.net.au (John Stepkowski) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 06:27:01 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:07:26 -0500 Subject: E.T. finally calls...a true believer collects Hi All... Rumour has it that Mr [Joseph] Carpenter tried to contact Ray Santilli about his "abduction on video" footage a few weeks ago. Perhaps one of Mr Santilli's colleagues could shed some light on (or squelch) this rumour. Thanks, John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >From _The Sunday Age_, (Melbourne), 29 Dec., 1996; p. 9 E.T. finally calls . . . and a true believer collects London: AN INSURANCE policy against being "abducted, impregnated or eaten by aliens" always seemed a poor Investment for the holder. But now it is unusual risks insurer Goodfellow Rebecca Ingrams Pearson Ltd (GRIP) that seems to have received the worst of the deal. Company managing director Simon Burgess today announced the payment of L1 million (pounds) on an "honest claim" by policyholder Joseph Carpenter, who provided the underwriters with a transparent, webbed claw as proof of his ordeal. "The insurance industry gets a lot of flak for not paying out on policies, but we deserve some credit too when we do fork out," Burgess said. GRIP, which made its name offering bizarre policies including one for virgins concerned about immaculation (sic) conception, handed over the cheque on Christmas Eve, he said. Carpenter, a self-styled "hardcore UFOlogist", said his ordeal began during a "sky search" with friends near RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire on the night of 14 November. The group spotted a "triangular craft" that Carpenter, who paid a L100 annual premium on the standard contingency policy, approached while his colleagues filmed him. "An intense beam of light shone on me and I was physically lifted off the ground and passed out," he said. "All this was captured on film. When I woke up I was in a rather surreal place. "It was like a dome with greenhouse vegetation for miles around. I was then approached by an orange luminous object. "I was just blinded by the light and then I felt the presence of someone behind me. "When I turned around there was an extraterrestrial entity with a triangular head, two tiny slit nostrils and olive, dolphin-like skin. "It scared the hell out of me and I lashed out and it said telepathically 'don't be afraid! We mean you no harm'. "I passed out. I presume it put me to sleep and when I woke up I was back on terra firma." At first Carpenter, a 23-year-old electrician from Enfield, North London, thought he had been dreaming, but then he noticed a claw stuck in his coat sleeve. "It was transparent like cling-film and webbed," he said. The claw was examined by an unnamed Cambridge biologist as part of the verification procedure for Carpenter's claim, Burgess said. The testimony of four witnesses and the video and photographs of the abduction were also required as proof by GRIP, he said. He said the evidence was now the subject of intense negotiations with an American media organisation in an effort by the underwriters to recoup some of its losses. Carpenter, who believed he might also have been involved in time travel during his ordeal, which he thought lasted 10 minutes but which his friends timed at three-quarters of an hour, now planned to begin spending his windfall on a UFO-spotting holiday in Bermuda. - Press Association -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:17:56 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:04:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs I would like to discuss some of the points that Steven Powell brought up a little later. However, I would like to throw out some more half-baked ideas. 1. LARGE NUMBER OF REPORTS: The actual number of ufo reports is unbelievably huge. Few, I think, realize the sheer number of reports. Vallee, Don Johnson, Barry Greenwood, and some of our French colleagues probably have an idea. Most reports become IFOs, but it is easy to become bogged down in these IFOs. Reading some of Ruppelt's papers it can be seen, by Sep-Oct 1952 he was very discouraged about the great amount of useless data, contradictory eyewitness testimony, and just plain foolishness that he wanted to chuck the whole thing and go to an instrumentation only study. Previously, his idea was to get as much data as possible. It then might be possible, he thought, to find reports of the same object, establish trajectories, get triangulations, etc. The Air Force subscribed to a clipping service. It was cancelled because it brought in too much data. Some of the clippings (very, very few) were used in the Batttelle study. However, the surprising thing is that Battelle did not use this data as a check against the Air Force files. The USAF data was bias because many of the reports were from official sources around military and official installations which were forced to report ufos by regulation while public reports were voluntary. If the same analysis were done using clipping service reports, what patterns would appear? (I think from the beginning the Air Force realized that they might be sitting on a volcano. MAJ GEN Cabell wrote in Nov 1948, "It has been pointed out to the Press that these article [flying saucer articles] would necessarily be speculative in nature and would probably result in a flood of reports, making analysis and evaluation of 'flying saucer' reports increasingly difficult." (I will post this Air Staff Summary Sheet, shortly.) Fortunately computer analysis has become cheap. For resource strapped ufology it is possible now to run better computer studies on a PC than Battelle ever imagined in 1952. 2. RELIABILITY AND CREDITABILITY Vallee, Berliner, Hynek and others have addressed this in different ways. The posting from Tom Rice discussed the military intelligence system. In any database, this necessarily subjective determination, should be taken into account. Don Berliner told me that when the UFO EVIDENCE was written about 6000 reports were screened first for reliable witnesses. The reports selected were then checked for patterns. 3. The early discussions and papers of the Condon committee seemed to indicate that they recognized they knew they were dealing with a small residuum of reports that contained the problem. However, statements by committee members and Craig particularly do not indicate that recognition. "There is not use dealing with McDonald's cases. If we knock down his 20 best cases he will just bring us 20 more." Using McDonald's cases would have been a shortcut, the committee would not have to eliminate the IFOs, and McDonald would give them scientifically interesting cases. "Most of the incidents in the 1967 wave fell apart on investigation." So what! We know that there is a small percentage of cases that represent the problem. The Condon report suffers from this lack of focus, focus on that which earlier discussion had decided was the problem" the residuum. Everything but the kitchen sink is discussed in the report: crackpot items, trivial cases and truly puzzling reports. Richard Hall told me an interesting anecdote. Hall was at the University of Colorado for a time. You wouldn't know this from reading the Condon report or Craig's book. One day Low was complaining about photographic analysis. He had a large pile of photographs on his desk, and said he could not figure out which one they should put their time into. Hall picked them up, looked at them, and place them in two piles. He told Low based on NICAP's studies one pile would be highly interesting while the other contained items that were almost certainly hoaxes or natural phenomena. Low shuffled the two piles together and continued with his lament. Why take advise from someone who has had experience in the area? 3. USAF, MOD, DND, ETC., STATISTICS Just about everyone is impressed by statistic. In the CIA analysis of the 1952 wave, they saw the AF claim of "only" 20% unexplained as evidence that the AF was on the right track. The CIA thought however, that the AF did not pay enough attention to possible patterns in the ufo data. The small percent of unidentifieds is always a reason to reject any further study. According to NBC News astronomers have announced over 50 times that they have found planets circling around other stars. All announcements prior to 1994 were shown to be questionable. Most "detections" were due to man made or natural causes. So using the ufo analogy, actual detections are a small percent of all detection and should be discarded. "But some are confirmed by independent sources." Ever hear this when you were a child, "One lies and the other swears to it." Very unfair of me, however, some scientists have used similar arguments. In 1966 I worked in data reduction on a nuclear particle experiment at MIT. Out of the over quarter of a million events we had, less than two percent were usable. Nowhere in the papers on this experiment--and several Phd dissertations were submitted from the results--was the small amount of usable data as a percent of total data collected discussed. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: #1 The Lesotho Incident From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 05:38:34 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:05:37 -0500 Subject: Re: #1 The Lesotho Incident Hi Joachim.. Regarding. > From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) > Date: 26 Dec 96 21:15:00 +0000 > Subject: #1 The Lesotho Incident > Organization: Welt am Draht > To: updates@globalserve.net > ********************************************************************** > *News* > *from the* > *International Roswell Initiative* > *IRI* [...] > *We all should stay side-by-side* - not divded in several groups > which follow only their own interest - but as individuals, inhabitants > of this planet, living beings without political, ideological or > religious differences who declare their native right to know what is > going on - the truth - which is out there. The Truth may be out there, but so are the hucksters, liars and hoaxers. This is something we all must be aware of too. > *2. The Documents* > On June 21st, 1996, something weird happened. In the morning of this > day the postman delivered a big brown envelope to Hans-Juergen > Kyborg's address. The address sticker was written with a machine and > showed a mixture of Hans' and my name. The stamp showed that is was > mailed somewhere in the southern parts of Germany. There was no sender > on the envelope, it was anonymous. Cynthia Hind, the Zimbabwe-based UFO researcher, received her copy of these "documents" back in February. She undertook an extensive reasearch effort which led her to conclude they were fake. She also learned that at the time the documents were posted - from South Africa - a certain James van Greunen was visiting there. > Well, take a deep breath - we did several. As Retyi, Stein and Kopp > found out by their research, "ROLD" is the short form of "Recovery Of > Lesotho Disk" and the term "Illuminated Nine" is used for a group > of high ranked Generals and Politicians, among them the former > Presidents Botha and deKlerk. Did this research involve asking van Greunen? > The last copied page of the material is a letter from within the > South African Intelligence Service regarding a "Major... Van Greunen/ > ..." who because of a meeting with the German National Intelligence > Service has "...now become a security risk to our service." > "We advise that Major...Van Greunen /... be suspended from the > intelligence service for an indefinite period with IMMEDIATE EFFECT, > pending information obtained ... on ... return to South Africa on 08 > February 96." This is a fascinating revelation. In 1989 van Greunen was in London claiming to be "on the run" from the South African secret service after he'd blown the lid off another alleged UFO retrieval, the so-called "Kalahari crash". Van Greunen allegedly escaped to Germany soon after, and at the time of his "defection" he claimed the rank of Captain. According to these latest "documents" van Greunen is now a _Major_. There was a time when betraying "Ultra Top Secrets" meant a firing squad; now you get a promotion! The peace-time military, eh? What a bunch of pussy cats... [...] > At the beginning we kept completely quiet. We looked around if there > would be any news about an UFO crash in South Africa but found nothing. > No reports in the media, no new mails, nothing in the Internet, no > articles in the UFO magazines. There was a lengthy article about the Lesotho documents in the July '96 issue of Cynthia's _UFO AFRINEWS_. [...] > Seven years ago, in May 1989, another crash had happened, the so- > called "Kalahari Incident". Most of the researchers were convinced > that this was a hoax. Only a few, who dealt with all the facts such as > the British researcher Anthony Dodd, remain steadfast that actually an > unidentified extraterrestrial craft was shot down by the South > African Air Force at that time. Van Greunen admitted to Michael Hesemann that he'd faked the Kalahari documents. > According to new information provided by the source of the Lesotho > Incident the craft of the Kalahari-Incident was shot down by squadron > leader Gerald Peter Goosen with a "Thor-2-Weapon" which was fixed at > his Mirage jet. The "Thor-Weapon" was a MASER-gun built in the "Thor" > factory in Johannesburg. Another original claim from van Greunen. I don't suppose van Greunen explained how this amazing new energy-hungry device was powered and attached to the airframe of a Mirage, a single-engined fighter not known for its large payload capacity? [...] > In the next and last part (#3 The Lesotho Incident) of this report I > shall translate for you what Andreas von Retyi wrote about the sources > of the information. Though this source is known as the main > protagonist of the "Kalahari Incident" and many thought of this > source to be a liar, it seems as if we have to take the source as it > is: a character with many colours A self-confessed document forger. > on the brink of the intelligence world A claim he never produced any evidence to support. Joachim, I'll append a copy of Cynthia's early report on the Lesotho material and I'd urge you to contact her, asap. It would be a shame for an endeavour as worthy as IRI to entangle itself in the promotion of another van Greunen hoax. - John
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 29 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 1, Number 44 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 16:00:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:10:29 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 1, Number 44 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 1, Number 44 December 29, 1996 Editor: Masinaigan FREE REPUTED ALIEN CAPTURED IN NORTHERN ISRAEL On Saturday night, December 21, 1996, residents of Ahyud, a village just outside the city of Akko in northern Israel called the police to report "luminescent blue disks" flying over their farms. At 11 p.m., Mrs. Zyona Damti, 34, looked out a window and saw "an alien" standing in front of her father-in-law's barn. She described the entity as 20 centimeters tall and "humanoid: head, trunk, two arms, small hands, two large black eyes. The color was greenish--the umbilicus was clearly visible." Mrs. Damti told her father-in-law what she had seen, but he replied that "it was nothing." At 8 a.m. the following morning, December 22, Mrs. Damti went outside and found the entity lying on the ground in a large pool of "green liquid." She called the police. Responding to the call were Officer Asher Ben Ezra and his partner. Shortly after the officers confirmed the claim, over 50 Israeli journalists converged on the scene. Barry Chamish, who covered the incident for Israel's Magazin 2000, interviewed Yisrael Damti, Zyona's husband, who said, "You'd better hurry. The body is disintegrating quickly. Most of the head has melted away." The Damtis put the body in their freezer to halt decomposition. By that time, the remains had shrunk from 20 to 5 centimeters. At 2 p.m., the remains were taken to Technion University in Haifa. Also on the scene was reknowned psychic Uri Geller, who reportedly suggested that the Damtis call in NASA. Despite many requests from the media, Yisrael Damti allegedly refused to permit the entity to be photographed before the autopsy began at the university. Not everyone believes the remains to be those of an extraterrestrial. Dr. Fischman told Barry Chamish, "What you have here is a lizard which hatched too early. It is covered in a multi-layered gelatinous sac. When it shed the sac, it left amniotic fluid" all over the ground. Doron Rotem, who investigated the case for the Israeli Association for UFO Studies, said he believed the remains to be the embryo of "a chameleon or a salamander." The case received a big play in the Israeli media, with TV coverage on Channels 1 and 2 and hourly broadcasts on the Galey Zahal (Israeli Armed Forces Radio). As a result, more people came forward with UFO stories. A farmer in Ahyud said aliens had stolen 18 of his sheep the night of December 21. In the nearby Arab town of Tamra, an Arab shepherd reported that his sheep had been stolen, too. (See the following Israeli newspapers for December 24, 1996: Maariv, the Jerusalem Post and Yediot Achronoyt. Many thanks to Dr. Leon Liebrecht and Barry Chamish for this story.) LEAR JET VANISHES OVER NEW ENGLAND On Tuesday, December 24, 1994, a Lear jet operated by Aircraft Charter Group of Bridgeport, Connecticut contacted the local airport in Lebanon, New Hampshire and requested permission to land. Aboard the aircraft were two men, Johan Schwartz and Pat Hayes, both from Connecticut. According to airport manager Timothy J. Edwards, the plan was on IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) due to the light rain and severe fog covering the upper Connecticut River valley. The twin-engined jet attempted to land at 9:45 a.m. but missed its approach and went around once more. As the plane reached a point six miles northwest of the airport, approaching White River Junction, Vermont, the town across the river from Lebanon, it vanished from the radar screen. "Jay Fitzgerald, a maintenance supervisor at the airport, said he became concerned after hearing 'non-standard tower communications.' 'The tower was talking to the aircraft and then he wasn't so (the controller) asked another aircraft to hail (the pilot), and that's non-standard,' Fitzgerald said." "He said rescuers were focusing their search on Moose Mountain, a 2,341-foot mountain that towers over a surrounding 1,200-foot ridge not far from the tiny airport." "Rebecca Morgan, an airport employee, said the jet's disappearance had everyone mystified." "'There's been no sign of a crash,' Morgan said. 'We've gotten no calls from people about any loud noises or fires. At this point it's pretty much a mystery.'" (See the Boston, Mass. Herald for December 25, 1996) A two-day search of the area between White River Junction, Norwich and West Hartford failed to find a single piece of wreckage. On Thursday, December 26, a helicopter equipped with infrared heat-seeking equipment from the New York Air National Guard joined the search. As of this moment, Sunday, December 29 at 10:30 a.m., both Schwartz and Hayes and their aircraft are still missing. (Editor's Note: White River Junction is a notorious UFO hotspot, with sightings dating back to September 1908.) CHINESE JET REPORTS AERIAL COLLISION WITH UFO On Thursday, December 19, 1996, a Boeing 757-200 operated by China's Southern Airlines took off from Beijing on a routine flight south to Wuhan, the capital of Hubei province. As the jetliner reached an altitude of 9,600 meters (31,500 feet), the copilot spotted a bright flash in the sky just ahead of them. A silver-gray metallic UFO struck the top of the 757's cockpit, cracking the outer windshield. The pilot immediately declared an in-flight emergency and radioed Beijing's Capital International Airport, requesting permission to land. The plane landed safely ten minutes later. The incident was briefly reported in the Yangcheng Evening News, picked up by Reuters and included in their report for December 26, 1996. (Thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp of UFO Updates for this story.) UFO SPOTTED IN CENTRAL GEORGIA On Saturday, December 21, 1996, at 10:30 p.m., a man and woman living near Bullard, Georgia (population 275) saw a UFO hovering near the southern perimeter of Robins Air Force Base. "The sky was clear and visibility excellent," reported Brenda Hughes. "We went outside to take a look at the weather. I noticed Paul looking at something in the sky. He said, 'There is something up there, and it's not a plane.' He works at Robins AFB and knows every plane that flies. I joined him, and we watched it hover just south of the base. We watched it for almost three minutes. It would appear and then disappear. It had lights that went all around it. And a red light with the white lights. It was my husband's first sighting." (Email Interview) UFO VISITS ARIZONA POW-WOW On Sunday afternoon, December 15, 1996, at 2:29 p.m., UFO researcher Bill Hamilton was watching a Native American dance at the Indian Market at South Mountain Park in Phoenix, Arizona when he sighted a UFO. "I gazed up at the crescent moon and saw a round, silvery object moving south at about 5 degrees below the moon. It made no sound and had no wings or appendages. Just below it, seemingly separated from the object, was a blinking green light (not like an aircraft light). It seemed to be signalling or just blinking. The object moved slowly to a dead stop and hovered. Then it just vanished from sight. Sighting time-- approximately 10 to 15 seconds." (Email Interview) SIGHTINGS CONTINUE IN THE CAMARILLO AREA On Tuesday, December 24, 1996, the bright white UFO seen earlier this month returned to its haunts in Camarillo, California (population 37,732). The UFO appeared at 4:45 p.m. On Wednesday, December 19, at 5:53 p.m., a similar object was sighted by a couple in the nearby city of Santa Barbara (population 74,542). According to an eyewitness, "My wife and I observed a very bright white light at about 60 degrees south. Through binoculars we could not make out a defined sharp edge--it looked fuzzy at the edges. The object was drifting slowly and linearly in an easterly direction. Height could have been anywhere from 30,000 to 60,000 feet (9,999 to 19,998 meters) but luminosity was very high. Conditions were clear and excellent visibility due to low humidity. About 10 or 15 minutes after sunset, the intensity instantaneously diminished to where it was barely visible as a dot in the clear but darkening sky." In related news, MUFON investigator Mary Helen Corrado's December 3rd videotape of the Camarillo UFO was pronounced genuine by SVG Digital Systems, Inc. In their December 21 letter, the firm stated, "Analysis of the above video indicates object is of a solid nature. Its trajectory and climb ascent indicate it is not a conventional aircraft... Considering the frame movement (30 frames per second) its speed is in the 4,000 to 6,000 mile-per-hour range." (Many thanks for Mary Helen Corrado for this story.) BLACK HELICOPTERS SEEN IN SOUTHERN BRAZIL On Friday, December 20, 1996, a mutilated cow was found in an orange grove outside Angatuba, a rural town in Brazil's Sao Paulo state. The Policia Militar sealed off the roads. Less than 30 minutes later, people in the nearby city of Itapetininga (population 110,000) saw three black helicopters hovering over the city's Brazilian Navy base. A few minutes later, two gray helicopters lifted off from the base, and all five took off in the direction of Angatuba. "In Itapetininga," our informant reported, "it is most unusual to see five helicopters in the air at the same time." Itapetininga is 24 kilometers (15 miles) west of Sorocaba, where a UFO was seen on October 5. (Editor's Comment: Looks as if Delta Team is maintaining a long-term presence in Brazil.) MORE UFO SIGHTINGS IN BRITAIN On Thursday, December 26, 1996, two police officers pursued a UFO in their cruiser near Britain's North Sea coast. Sgt. Steve King and PC Andy Collier of the Norfolk police were on routine patrol along the shore when they spotted "strange lights in the sky." The officers chased the object for ten miles until it "accelerated and flew away over the North Sea" at Holt, Norfolk. The Norfolk police phoned the airport at Norwich and learned that "no flights were in the vicinity." Police at Fakenham, Norfolk received 30 calls that night from people claiming to have seen the UFO. Britain's Ministry of Defence (MoD) dismissed the officers' report, claiming that the UFO was merely "a combination of the 200-foot Boston Stump (cathedral) and an electrical storm." (See the Daily Mirror for December 26, 1996) On Thursday, December 12, a man reported "bright orange lights" over Shaftsbury. The lights "grew in size" and then "disappeared suddenly as they dipped down towards the town." On November 21, at 10 p.m., a motorist returning from Birmingham on Highway M54 "saw a bright green star descend vertically on the horizon in the direction of Shrewsbury." As he drove onto the A5, he encountered a roadblock and was diverted down A455 East. While on this road, he saw mysterious "extremely bright blue-white flashes" on the horizon at Shrewsbury. STRANGE DOINGS IN THE SAN LUIS VALLEY On Saturday, December 7, at 7:15 p.m., Douglas Hawk left his home in Alamosa County, Colorado, just north of the New Mexico state line, and "observed a solid, unblinking orange light" traveling through the sky "from south to north." The unblinking light did not resemble the standard FAA warning lights on conventional aircraft. On Wednesday, November 20, at 7:12 p.m., the central and southern San Luis Valley was rocked by a mysterious sky boom. The explosion was heard by Sherry Maxwell, Brendan O'Brien, Monti Collins and Isadora and Brisa Storey. On Monday night, November 18, Amy Syke spotted "a triangle of white lights" flying over Saguache County, heading west. As they approached the mountain range, the "lights broke apart and descended diagonally toward the ground." Four days earlier, on November 14, at 7:12 p.m., UFO witness Pat Richmond spotted 12 white vans with bright red lights parked in Alamosa, Colorado (population 6,830). The vehicles "looked suspicious," Ms. Richmond said. (Many thanks to Christopher O'Brien, author of THE MYSTERIOUS VALLEY, Bantam Books, 1996, for this news update.) (Editor's Note: White vans belonging to NASA were seen in Republic, Washington on September 14, 1995 right after a flurry of UFO reports from the Tonasket area.) ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA: In Issue #43, your editor mistakenly credited the wrong person with ownership of that excellent UFO Website at http:www.linex.com/ufo. Let's set the record straight right here. The Website is owned and operated by Steve Wingate, and the cited article is only one of many available at this site. Be sure to stop by and browse them all. MORE UFO WEBSITES For readers interested in the Comet Hale Bopp and its alleged companion object, which some wag dubbed "the Hale Mary," astronomer Chuck Shramek has photos and commentary available at his new Website. You'll find it at http://www.neosoft.com/~cshramek/ UFO sightings in New York's Hudson River valley hold top billing on Brian's Website. Check it out at this URL: http://members.aol.com/Brian3882. British ufologist Ian Read has started a new newsgroup. For more info, check his site at http://people.netcom.co.uk/i.read/ And don't miss UFO ONLINE by Italian ufologist Mauricio Verga. This newly upgraded site offers up-to-date information on Italian ufology and lets you look at documents and review case histories and much more. You'll find it at http://www.oasi.asti.it/homes/CISU/english/ufo1.htm RINGING DOWN THE CURTAIN ON 1996 Well, this ends Volume 1 of UFO ROUNDUP. It's sometimes hard to believe how much the newsletter has grown since February. From its humble beginnings in the Sightings chat room, UFO ROUNDUP has blossomed and attracted readers from all over the world. Outside the USA, UFO ROUNDUP has subscribers in Britain, Canada, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Israel, Italy, Malta, Argentina, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, France, India and Malaysia. I would like to thank all of you who made it possible. The "Majestic Ten" from the Sightings chat room, who first encouraged me to launch the newsletter. John C. Hayes, who so generously allowed the newsletter to maintain an archive at his Website, UFO INFO. The 29,118 visitors to the archive. And, of course, all of you readers who send on UFO stories and information. You're the people who have turned the Internet into a vital newsgathering tool. You've helped me cover the stories that Big Media refuses to touch, the continuing drama of the Unidentified Flying Object, which is often the story of ordinary people caught up in extraordinary events. Thank you all. Join us next week as we open 1997 with more coverage of the UFO phenomenon. Here's wishing all of our readers a HAPPY NEW YEAR from "the paper that goes home...UFO ROUNDUP."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 A little Something..... From: Owen Morgan <ddraig@kuntrynet.com> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:33:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:40:35 -0500 Subject: A little Something..... Alien propultion systems: A strange alien craft landed at a gas station. A hatch opened and a dark eyed, grey thing glided out and started pumping gas into his ship. The cashier noticed the letters "UFO" printed on the side of the ship, pushed the microphone button and said, "I'll bet that stands for 'Unidentified Flying Object'". "No" replied the creature, "it stands for 'Unleaded Fuel Only'!" [ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom, tssshh.....] Heres another: A space-alien to his girl friend, "Do you want to try that new restaurant on the Moon?" I hear the food is good, but there is no atmosphere. [ba-dum-pah] Owen Morgan ddraig@kuntrynet.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:32:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:41:25 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' As I catch up on some mail I missed, I see Michael Malone made a welcome reappearance -- hi, Michael! He was commenting on that vexed discussion of "self-claimed" abductees. He agrees the term is negative, but thinks, reasonably enough, that I went too far in saying "abductee" is a fair word to use for someone who claims to have been abducted: > I disagree with Greg on the issue that an abductee refers to someone who > beleives they have been abducted but we have no evidence of the abduction. > There are far to many who do not hold this view. I think John Powell has > the right of it when he attempts to clarify the lack of evidence for the > abduction with a phrase like "self-claimed." A better word, in my opinion, > is alleged. I think you're right, Michael. The word "abductee" literally means someone who was abducted. Maybe those of us who think about these things every day -- poor us! -- can finesse the literal meaning, and understand that the people we're calling abductees can't prove their experience was real. Dunno about "alleged," though. That also sounds negative to me. The more I think about this terminology business, the more I'm inclined to go with "experiencer." It only says that someone has had this experience. We can use the term with respect, while reserving judgement on exactly what the nature of the experience is. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 04:03:08 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:46:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members From: "MRGATE::"A1::MW1SHELTON"" <MW1SHELTON%MRGATE.A1.decnet@shawnee.edu> From: NAME: Mack Shelton <MW1SHELTON@A1@SPEEDY> To: WINS%"<d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>"@SPEEDY@MRGATE@SPEEDY Bravo!! Someone finally came out and told the real side of the story!! I'm in the military, USN to be exact. I also work as the editor-in-chief of a newspaper and what you said about stories from the street can be related to. I get stories of all sorts from people who "are in the know" but they turn out to be exaggerations of just plain lies. Being in the military and holding a secret clearance in underwater dyanimcs, I am obligated to certain classified materials. I know the security procedures about handling the things I know. What the public doesn't realize is just because it is classified as "SECRET" that doesn't mean that the info contained in the secrecy has anything to do with any cover up. Case in point: I was asked if my ship had any nuclear weapons on it. At the time (10 years ago, and the ship has since been sold to another country), we had several, but I could not say if we did or if we didn't. The standard response was and is, "I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons onboard the USS ----." As far as receiving any reports about UFOs, in my area of Ohio we had three cases, both of which were solved. The first came when several small groups of lights were seen rising up from a nearby field. The second was a group of lights hovering over the Ohio River. A third happened down river towards Cincinnatti when several small light were seen flying over an island. This is what each of them were: 1) The military WAS involved in the first case. A group of reservists were out on weekend training and were firing there rifles and using traces. Traces produce a light when fired and at night are particularly fascinating. 2) A "small" civilian film company known as Fuji Films was flying their Fuji Blimp that night and the next day for a promotional tour. Blimps have billborad lighting (check out the Goodyear blimp) 3) two kids were on the island and had tin cans with candles in them. They had a way to captuer the hot gas produced by the candle flame, thus making an illuminous balloon. See the trend? Many people, reputable or not, make a "rush to judgement" on things they don't understand. I am not saying UFOs do exist and not that ALL sightings are explainable. I believe that some form of life exits elsewhere, on the moon, Mars, in the Crab Nebula, or in the ocean and rainforests. But, until I see one, I must be a little skepticle. The military has their reasons for doing what they do. Area 51, though having the reputation of UFO studies, is a secret base UNKNOWN official by Washington, D.C. Why? Simple. Invent a car or a new shoe. You do not want the world to steal your secrets. So, you devise a secret test bed to study and enhance your designs. Does the public scream and holler about it? Maybe not. But mention something that flies and whatch out! You'll have every UFO enthusiats that follows the dreams and misgivings of Brad Stieger in your face. Sincerely, Mack W. Shelton, Jr. USN / Editor-in-Chief: The Chronicle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 1968 Rand Report 'UFOs: What To Do' From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 03:43:01 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:45:26 -0500 Subject: 1968 Rand Report 'UFOs: What To Do' From: Michael Ravnitzky <MikeRav@ix.netcom.com> Important think tank Report on UFO's May Become Available Soon If You Ask For It In 1968, the Rand Corporation (now called the Rand Institute) published a 41-page technical report entitled: UFO's: What to Do. the author of the report was George Kocher. The Rand Institute has kept the report secret for 29 years, but many researchers would like to read it, and feel that enough is enough. [The Rand Institute is a nonprofit institute, thus it is subsidized in part by not being required to pay taxes, thus subsidized by the taxpayer.] Rand will release this report to the public if they feel that there is enough interest from the public. Just send a letter (preferred) or an e-mail asking for a copy of the report UFO's: What to Do, to: Margaret E. Schumacher <Margaret_Schumacher@rand.org> phone: 310-393-0411 extension 7712 Manager, Publications Department Rand Institute P.O. Box 2138, 1700 Main Street Santa Monica, CA 90407-2138 Her boss is Jon B. Hertzog <Jon_Hertzog@rand.org> Director of Information Services at the same address His phone number is 310-393-0411 ext 6977 Two other people who might make the decision to release this document: Marcia Green <mgreen@monty.rand.org>, 310-393-0411 ext. 6855 and Victoria Roberts <roberts@monty.rand.org>, 310-393-0411 ext. 6853 If you want it, you can get it. ||||||||| My dear members, you know what to do . . . Francisco
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 00:02:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:42:46 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' Jorgen clarifies a point that, as he points out, I didn't quite understand. (Again, apologies to all, I'm catching up with some old mail.) I had wondered what would happen if we showed a group of experiencers various depictions of the standard gray alien. Would a majority pick one as closest to what they say they've seen? So Jorgen wrote: > > > Alright if it was a single alien-person, but to me it sounds like > > > showing a picture of a black man to a race of whites and they will go > > > "Yeah! He's black alright!". > > > > I don't mean to offend you, but you're not talking about a person - > > > you're talking about a whole supposed alien race here, right? > And later, to make sure I understood, he restated this way: > Does all aliens look exactly the same (no individuals)? The descriptions > vary a lot from what I've read and heard. Hmmmm. Don't know about aliens as individuals, but I wonder if it matters. Chimps and gorillas vary as individuals, as do baboons and orangutangs. But each species has common characteristics. So if someone who didn't know simian species well said "I saw an ape," you could show pictures of chimps, etc., until our observer says "That one!" Meaning not that exact baboon, but definitely a baboon, as opposed to a gorilla or rhesus monkey. Of course, we're not dealing with a known species here! So the enterprise is obviously more speculative. Still, I'd offer this thought. The artists' representations of "grays" do vary. Some have rounder heads, some more elongated heads...I guess I could pull out various pictures and describe the differences in great detail. The Strieber alien was, to my eye, more fetus-like than other representations I've seen, and also struck me as having a narrower chin. The differences -- assuming now for a moment that these aliens are in fact real -- strike me as being greater than variations from one individual to another. It's as if many people had seen a chimp, in a world where primates other than humans didn't exist. No photos of the chimp exist, so artists attempt to draw the chimp from the descriptions given by people who've seen it. Naturally, they don't quite get it right. Which drawing comes closest? Maybe it's the one picked by various chimp-spotters, when they're shown a group of possibilities, and asked to pick one. As for variations between white and black people...yep, we've got that on earth, but maybe they don't on Zeta Reticuli. In any case, there are places on earth where people look far more alike than they do in New York (to pick the human habitation I know best). I spent two weeks in Japan once, and was amazed by a fact that's obvious, but not striking until you actually see it: Virtually all Japanese have the same color hair. That's quite different from what we see in western countries. Maybe the grays, if they exist, are like Japanese...their coloring doesn't vary as much as ours does. Other features might vary less, too. So your situation of the white people picking a black drawing might not arise. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 00:50:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:43:38 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 Still catching up....and considering the question of alleged alien writing. Peter Brookesmith and John Powell made helpful comments about testing claims that people have seen the same writing. Here's the gist of some of it, with quotes mixed and matched from both gentlemen: > Lacking the priceless MSS, John Powell suggests comparing 'original' > and 'fresh' samples of alleged alien writing from each claimant (a > vertical test) and then comparing these writings claimant v. claimant > (an horizontal test). > > We compare the two samples (the fresh one from the claimant and the > > original one from the claimant) and statistically on a character by > > character basis we'd expect equal or better than 80% similarity to > > advance that example further in our dataset. > So far so good, but you haven't any controls in this experiment. I'd > suggest that an even more workable dataset would have a third axis, > using the same abduction claimants and a control group of > non-claimants (selection criteria to be agreed). AFTER the claimants > have produced their "fresh" allegedly-alien scripts, you ask the > claimants and the control group to write down their > *impressions* of a couple of lines of writing in (a) the Greek > alphabet (b) Arabic script (c) Hebrew alphabet (d) Chinese pictograms. > It will be obvious to anyone who knows these scripts whether or not > the writer is giving an impression or really knows them. [snip] What they write doesn't > have to make sense - we just want to know how accurately they recall > details of unknown scripts that they have seen only casually. > When they have completed their impressions, you show them a couple of > lines of the real thing, for a couple of minutes or so, then ask them > to reproduce them from memory. That gives you a measure of how > accurate (compared to the generality, too) the claimants' memories for > such things may be. This is all a big plus. Anything that makes abduction research more objective has to be welcome. A couple of thoughts on it: We're treading on a very tricky question here -- the nature and functioning of memory. This isn't something the scientific world exactly agrees on. Some memory researchers might suggest that the control-group procedure ends up comparing apples and oranges. That is, innocent controls are shown writing that doesn't use the roman alphabet. Then they try to draw what they see, giving us some idea of how well people remember what experiencers claim to remember when they reproduce what they say is alien writing. But the control group isn't under any stress. They're just shown what to them are random symbols. There's no special reason why they should remember them. But an experiencer, undergoing a real abduction (if abductions in fact are real) would be under tremendous stress. There would be every reason why things seen during the experience would stand out in memory. Some memory researchers believe that traumatic memories behave differently from casual ones. If this is correct, abductees might have better recall of writing seen during abductions than a casual control group would of writing shown to them during an experiment. There's also a notion of "state-dependent" memory -- if you're in a particular mental state when you experience something, you remember it suddenly when you're in that state again. This might be stretching a point, but if abductions take place in an altered state of consciousness (as they indeed seem to), then data could be recalled very sharply when the experiencer again enters an similarly altered state of consciousness -- under hypnosis. This would mean that writing seen during an abduction could be sharply remembered under hypnosis, more sharply than writing casually seen in an experiment would be. (If this notion of altered-state abductions and hypnosis seems far-fetched, don't blame only me. I cribbed the idea from Stewart Appelle, a genuine university psychologist who edits the Journal of UFO Studies. It's in his piece in the current volume about theories of abductions, and the evidence that does or doesn't support those theories. VERY valuable reading!) OK, moving right along... Once the experiment is carried out, we'd have to clarify what constitutes similarity. How do we measure it? What constitutes 80% similarity, as opposed to 60% or 20%? There's a procedure for doing that, which I'd strongly urge be adopted. You need two or more independent observers, not part of the experimental team. These would be people who've never seen the alleged writing samples before. They'd each make separate judgements of each pair of items we wanted to compare. They'd rank the similarity on a simple scale, maybe one to five, with one meaning no similarity at all, and five meaning very greatly similar. Then their numerical rankings are averaged. That gives a reasonably independent and objective measure of similarity. It's a standard procedure, used in social science research. And it might be overkill to test whether people can remember Arabic or Chinese. The supposed alien writing I've seen was much simpler than Japanaese or Chinese or Hebrew or any earthly alphabet I've ever seen. When I described it, I compared it to Morse Code. Morse Code has only two elements -- dots and dashes. The supposed alien writing has more elements than two, but not very many more. And they're combined into "letters" more or less the way dots and dashes are combined in Morse Code. Each "letter" (or most of the letters, anyway -- now my own memory might not be totally accurate) is built from the same few easily specifiable elements. What that means is that this alleged alien writing easier to remember than Russian or Korean writing. Anyone could look at Morse Code for two minutes and then write out pages of an accurate imitation. The dots and dashes might not mean anything, but there wouldn't be much doubt that Morse Code was being imitated. Ditto for the alien writing. Anyone could look at it, and then spew out pages of imitation. Even if you got something wrong -- the writing has diagonal lines, maybe, and you slanted them to the left instead of to the right -- there still wouldn't be much doubt that you and the abductee to your left were imitating the same thing. In other words....if this is a sample of alien writing ^^\\+ \++\^ ^+^^ it wouldn't be very hard for most people to look at it for 30 seconds and reproduce a good imitation. I'd be pretty impressed if I saw \++^ ^\\^+ +^^+^ and I wouldn't be any less impressed just because someone goofed and wrote //^++ +/ /^/+^^ That's still consistent with the original, and a far cry from &$$$$$))) ()()@%% j__=! Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Project 1947 - Re: 'Secret' Rand UFO Document From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 09:24:34 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:48:01 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: 'Secret' Rand UFO Document On Dec 29, at 22:05, Michael Ravnitzky wrote: >Important think tank Report on UFO's May Become Available Soon >If You Ask For It > >In 1968, the Rand Corporation (now called the Rand Institute) published >a 41-page technical report entitled: UFO's: What to Do. the author of >the report was George Kocher. The Rand Institute has kept the report >secret for 29 years, but many researchers would like to read it, and >feel that enough is enough. On June 25th, 1969, an official letter from RAND stated: "We are unable to identify any RAND publications on U. F. O.'s available for external distribution." On August 8, 1969, RAND wrote: "RAND has done very little on the subject of UFO's: therefore, no publications have been written on the subject." On Oct 2, 1969, William Laub of Northfield, IL, wrote a letter to the Air Force (Lt. Col. James Aikman) about this document. Aikman stated in his reply, "The RAND Corporation has never made any reports on UFOs for the US Air Force. If any reports were made by this corporation they were made on their own." (RAND Corp. was an Air Force contractor). This was not a secret document, but unavailable to the public for obvious reasons. We've had a copy of this document for many years. Francis Ridge UFO Filter Center The MADAR Project slk@evansville.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 US Research 'Tool'? - The Political Graveyard From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 04:12:41 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:47:09 -0500 Subject: US Research 'Tool'? - The Political Graveyard From: Gleason Sackman <gleason@rrnet.com> To: Multiple recipients of list NET-HAPPENINGS <NET-HAPPENINGS@LISTS.INTERNIC.NET> From: Donna Wair <wair@library.vanderbilt.edu> To: gsunet-l@bgu.edu Subject: The Political Graveyard THE POLITICAL GRAVEYARD Want to find out where politicians *really* hide their skeletons? Try digging in the Political Graveyard: http://home.intranet.org/~polygon//tpg/index.html Among other things, you can find: Politician list in alphabetical order (12433). Politician list by state and offices held (12433). Politician list by date born or died (4698); by year born or died (12432). Politicians who died youngest (63); politicians who lived longest (97). Politicians who won the Nobel Peace Prize (8). Politicians who belonged to political families (371). Politicians who were female (171), black (92), Asian (9), American Indian/Native American (6), Hispanic (32), Jewish (136), or foreign born (331). Politicians who were named for other politicians (214) or named for other famous people (55). Politicians who were in trouble or disgrace (25) -- very incomplete! Politicians who were killed in the Civil War (24); other wars (18). Politicians who were killed in duels (12), or otherwise murdered (34). Politicians who disappeared or died mysteriously (7); politicians who committed suicide (10). Politicians who were killed by fire, explosion, or lightning (9); by drowning (22); in falls (7); by animals (1);in gun accidents (9). Politicians who were killed in transportation accidents or disasters: stagecoach (1), steamship and boat (14), railroad and streetcar (11), automobile (25), aircraft (20), elevator (1). Politicians who suffered some other type of accidental death (6). Politicians who died of certain diseases (very incomplete!): cancer (11), cholera (2), heart disease (20), kidney diseases (3), lung diseases (pneumonia, asthma, tuberculosis, etc.) (17), malaria (1), smallpox (1), stroke (13), yellow fever (3), other diseases (5). Politicians who died (or whose death was caused) at: a legislative session (8), in court (9), while campaigning (10), or at any other public event or meeting (7). Politicians who died (or whose death was caused) at the U.S. Capitol Building (11), the White House (3), a state capitol building (3), in theaters (4), train stations (3), or hotels (11). Politicians who died in Bethesda Naval Hospital (11), Walter Reed Army Medical Center (4), in other hospitals (48), in nursing homes and rest homes (4), in prison or captivity (3). Politicians who died (other than in transportation accidents) on board boats (12), trains (3), or planes (2). Politicians who donated their bodies to science (2); politicians who were cremated (119); politicians who were buried at sea (2); politicians whose remains were never found (16). <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> donna wair wair@library.vanderbilt.edu http://free.websight.com/Wair4/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re:Panel from Temple at Abydios, Egypt Depicts From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:43:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:49:31 -0500 Subject: Re:Panel from Temple at Abydios, Egypt Depicts > Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:49:00 -0800 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Panel from Temple at Abydios, Egypt Depicts Ancient > Aircraft > References: <2.2.32.19961229171038.0071220c@mail.globalserve.net> > UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Thanks to Steve Wingate for the lead on > > the following: > > ebk > > _____________________________________________ > > From: The 'Insearch of...' Website > > Established by Dr. Dan Woolman, Ph.D. Physics > > http://www.in-search-of.com/frames/hamilton/ancientaircraft_nf.html > > ----- > Before we go riding off into the clouds on Vimanas, maybe Drs. Hover and > Woolman could tells us what the documenters of this temple interpreted > this panel to mean. Seems to me we need to hear both sides before we > ride away on a cloud of speculation. > Jan Aldrich The absence of relief shadowing in certain portions of the images is suspicious. But what really stretches credibility is that a profile resembling a Sikorsky heavy lift helicopter is in the first line second hieroglyph to the right of the vertically oriented plant like hieroglyph which has its tip pointed to the right. Next artifact please! How about posting the photographs which show where in the temple this supposed photo was taken. I'll be in Egypt in a few weeks and would like to see this in person or will this segment of the wall be panelled over by then and lost to mankind. Please advise me as to its location in the "Temple at Abydios" so that I can also see and photograph this. Skeptically, Gary Alevy Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | jan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 02:14:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:44:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs Many thanks to Jan Aldrich for discussing the philosophy of science, as it relates to UFOs. (And also for his informative posts about everything else!) Call me radical, if you like, but the greatest mystery to me is why there <is> any UFO mystery. UFOs have been regularly reported -- and talked about, and talked about, and talked about -- for nearly 50 years. You'd think that by now we'd have arrived at some consensus. The problem doesn't seem all that difficult. Is anything flying around up there? Why can't science answer it? Skeptics have a solution. They'd say that science <has> answered the question. There's nothing mysterious flying around. The supposed mystery only persists because -- incited by credulous believers and by the media -- people keep thinking they're seeing something. I find that answer very interesting. Not for its content; what I like is its structure. "Believers" (I hate the term, but I'm using it anyway) don't have as much clarity. If we think there clearly are unknown craft flying through our skies -- and that these craft have been seen by tens of thousands of people -- what's our elegant, parsimonious explanation for why the world at large doesn't acknowledge that? Is there a coverup? That's not a philosophically satisfying explanation at all. It introduces an extraneous element -- a whole layer of government involvement -- and raises extra questions of its own. Why is there a coverup? And why does the coverup work? I'm reminded here of a science fiction story I read many years ago. Science discovers a chemical that stops people from lying. The chemical is introduced into the water supply, the way fluorine is now. After a number of years, nobody lies any more. But UFOs are still seen, leading everyone to believe that they've got to be real. I know...the situation is more complex than that, since even if nobody lied, everyday objects would still be mistaken for something mysterious, just as they are now. But what's instructive -- and a little wistful -- about the story is its UFO-related premise. There's a kind of haze in our minds where UFOs are concerned, the story seems to say. If that haze could somehow be removed, we'd find the answer very quickly. >From a believer's point of view, what could that haze be? My theory is that it's denial. Or maybe I shouldn't put it so aggressively. The presence of mysterious flying craft (very likely from other planets) is presumed to be extraordinary. It's also presumed to be unlikely. So when somebody says they saw one, you don't quite know what to think. It's not quite the same as an everyday extraordinary event, the kind of thing that doesn't happen much, but doesn't strain our credibilty -- like, say, your friend coming back from the bowling alley, and saying he almost bowled 300, except he missed a strike in the last frame. Even if one of your closest relatives says he saw a flying disk in the sky, you don't quite know what to make of it. "Jeez, Joshua wouldn't lie," you might mutter. "But does that mean I think aliens are here? I just don't know." There's plenty of evidence that this sort of haze really does exist. You find signs of it, I think, in the nonsense some skeptics write about UFOs. A classic example is Donald Menzel's "explanation" of the famous New Guinea case. In order to dispose of an Anglican priest who'd inconveniently had a long, close, detailed, and corroborated UFO sighting, Menzel -- with no evidence -- decided the guy had a visual problem that turned the planet Venus into a flying saucer-like oval. Did the priest think he saw beings on the saucer? Those were his own eyelashes, Menzel said! As I've remarked here before, I think, you have to read Menzel's own words to fully appreciate how demented his theory was. It belonged in Mad magazine. When we see a competent scientist descend so far into the pit of irrationality, that ought to set off alarm bells for us. What made him suddenly act like he'd lost his mind? Why should UFOs drive him so crazy? Is he, for some reason, internally compelled to believe that UFOs aren't real? The place to find this mental haze at its most pronounced is, I think, in the SETI literature. Here you have what I believe is the only (semi-) organized group of scientists who think or write much about aliens. And they've reached a definite consensus. There are alien races all over the galaxy, possibly millions of them, some a billion years more advanced than we are. But none of them can visit each other, because interstellar travel just isn't possible. I just smile when I read that stuff. Interstellar travel on any regular basis would be hard to imagine for us, right now -- there's no doubt about that. But for beings a billion years ahead of us? Who could possibly say? It's the height of antrhopomorphic arrogance to imagine we can say anything at all about beings a billion years ahead of us. So I'm not going to say they <do> travel between the stars. I have no idea. But neither does Frank Drake -- the leader of the SETI forces -- have any business thinking he knows, either. If you read Drake's book ("Is Anyone Out There?", coauthored with Dava Sobel), you can see his rationality collapse as he talks about these things. When he limits himself to the reasons <we> can't travel to other stars, he's at least on solid scientific ground. The speed of light, according to our science, is an absolute limit. And even approaching the speed of light is difficult, because doing it would take such vast amounts of energy. Drake's sense of fairness, however, leads him to consider objections to these views, coming from a few of his own scientific colleagues. One of these scientists points out that, as technology advances, the cost of energy drops drastically. Ah, yes, Drake says....but what about cosmic rays? Maybe they'll fry astronauts in interstellar space! Do you see what he's doing here? He's just making things up. When he talks about the speed of light, he has real data to back him up. When he talks about cosmic rays, he's just speculating. There's not a shred of data to support him. He <wants> to believe interstellar travel isn't possible, and when solid scientific reasons fail him, he'll try to pull a rabbit out of any hat that comes along. Now, why would he want to believe we'll never travel to the stars? I don't want to insist on this point too strongly, but I suspect it's because his belief protects him against thinking that the stars would ever travel here. The SETI scientists are united on their view of UFOs. We have <not> had alien visitors, they all say. And sure, they go through the usual rigamarole about the evidence not being solid, but behind that lies their explicitly stated belief that we <can't> have visitors, because interstellar travel has been proved to be impossible. One of these scientists, Jill Tarter, very boldly (and honestly, I think) declared that she had "a closed mind" about alien visits and UFOs. I find it very touching that scientists burning with eagerness to find evidence of alien life would make it matter almost of religious principle to believe no alien life will ever come here. Somehow, I suspect, that belief comforts them, and makes them feel powerful. It allows them to face the unknown cosmos, and still be certain that they themselves know something. There's no chance, you see, that their search of the universe will be disturbed by alien folks who fly on down and tell them what's <really> going on. Which leads me to my last evidence of UFO-induced mental haze -- the idea (quite apart from the rigid SETI reasoning) that alien visits are unlikely. How could anyone know that? I've said it here before, and I'll say it again: We're not in a position to make such a statement, because we don't know enough about the universe. Nor are we in a position to say alien visits <are> likely; we don't have any information that supports that belief, either. Maybe if he had a complete registry of intelligent races in our galaxy...then we could see if there were any near us, with interstellar capabilities. If there weren't, we could conclude that visits were unlikely. If there were, and especially if there were many such races, we could think "Sure, since they're busily travelling scant light years from us, it's only a matter of time before they come here." Here's a specific, even (in a speculative way) practical example of what I mean. Since we don't know anything about alien life, not even whether it exists, UFO abductions seem really mysterious. How can we possibly judge if such things could be real? They're certainly not very likely, are they? Enter now a member of, God help me, the Galactic Federation. I'm assuming her (or his, or its) existence, just as a way of personifying the kind of knowledge of the universe that we don't have. Someone from this list, maybe someone unruffled and rational like Rebecca or Jerry Cohen, is talking to this galactic ambassador, and says: "You know, we've got people saying they're abducted by little gray humanoids with big eyes. Does that ring any bells with you?" And our galactic envoy sighs (or shimmers its tentacles), and answers: "Jeez, you're infested with Zorphs! They sneak around everywhere, performing their idiot medical experiments. So you've got 'em, too, huh? Don't blame you for being confused -- they've got that trick of clouding peoples' minds." In one stroke, a great mystery is explained, and revealed -- in a frame of reference we don't yet have -- to be a commonplace event. Our problem with UFOs might simply be that we don't have the frame of reference yet. From our point of view, an alien visit is a departure from ordinary life, a breach of our sense of ourselves, a bracing shock. Maybe, if we had accurate information about what really goes on in our galaxy, we'd understand that alien visits are really an everyday affair, sometihng we should take for granted, rather than debate. Remember that I'm not saying this <is> true; I'm only saying that it's possible. I'm also saying that we don't have any information at all about whether alien visits are likely, so, from a strictly logical point of view, we have no business being surprised if one occurs. Our feeling that we <would> be surprised is evidence -- along with the prevailing a priori belief that alien visits are <not> very likely -- that, as a species, we haven't begun to think about these things clearly. Respectfully submitted, Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 08:59:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:23:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > Subject: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > However, I would like to throw out some more half-baked ideas. > 1. LARGE NUMBER OF REPORTS: > The actual number of ufo reports is unbelievably huge. Few, I think, > realize the sheer number of reports. Vallee, Don Johnson, Barry > Greenwood, and some of our French colleagues probably have an idea. Something like 10,000 a year worldwide. But this is just the rawest data, no investigation whatsoever, and is therefore a wholly meaningless number. Obviously if the sightings have passed even basic investigation then they should not be included in a database upon which statistical analysis is to be performed. > Most reports become IFOs, but it is easy to become bogged down in > these IFOs. Reading some of Ruppelt's papers it can be seen, by > Sep-Oct 1952 he was very discouraged about the great amount of useless > data, contradictory eyewitness testimony, and just plain foolishness > that he wanted to chuck the whole thing and go to an instrumentation > only study. There's a catch-22 here. Obviously everything starts with collecting data, then at some point moves to analyzing that data. The purpose of analysis is to find significant patterns and significant lack of patterning in the data. The third basic step can go two ways. One way is to take the general population patterns back to specific cases and confirm matching. The other angle is to begin to make predictions, collect additional data to test those predictions. The catch-22 is that we should technically be collecting _all_ the data so as not to risk jeopardising the database and therefore the results. I think the safe way out of this catch-22 is to create selection criteria that _don't_ affect the observation, just the observing/observer. For example, remove from the database _all_ single person observations. > However, the surprising thing is that Battelle did not use this data > as a check against the Air Force files. The USAF data was bias > because many of the reports were from official sources around military > and official installations which were forced to report ufos by > regulation while public reports were voluntary. If the same analysis > were done using clipping service reports, what patterns would appear? Actually, Battelle _should_ have performed two in-paralel series of analysis on both sets of data to confirm/disprove the assumption of bias. I don't think (personal opinion) that the assumption is valid or meaningful. > 2. RELIABILITY AND CREDITABILITY > Vallee, Berliner, Hynek and others have addressed this in different > ways. The posting from Tom Rice discussed the military intelligence > system. In any database, this necessarily subjective determination, > should be taken into account. Don Berliner told me that when the UFO > EVIDENCE was written about 6000 reports were screened first for > reliable witnesses. The reports selected were then checked for > patterns. I don't know of an objective way for determinimg a reliable witness. I don't think its safe to cull the data based on observer-related criteria. I think it is safe to separate the data based on observation-related criteria. If we're looking for a pattern, and if there are patterns, then those patterns should be present or at least not removed from the data simple by selecting data based on observation-related criteria. If a patter-type happens to be Silver Discoid then that should be reflected in both the multi-observer sightings _and_ the single-observer sightings -OR- there's a major problem with all the data. > 3. The early discussions and papers of the Condon committee seemed to > indicate that they recognized they knew they were dealing with a small > residuum of reports that contained the problem. > The Condon report suffers from this lack of focus, focus on that > which earlier discussion had decided was the problem" the residuum. > Everything but the kitchen sink is discussed in the report: crackpot > items, trivial cases and truly puzzling reports. At least today we know that the bulk of the cases, something like 80% to 95%, are rather quickly explained. We also know that we will always have that bulk of easily explainable data in any given year in any given decade. We don't _need_ to explain this dataset or even perform statistical analysis on it. Maybe it would be interesting for the social science to perform statistical analysis on the misidentification data but that isn't our focus. > 3. USAF, MOD, DND, ETC., STATISTICS > Just about everyone is impressed by statistic. In the CIA analysis > of the 1952 wave, they saw the AF claim of "only" 20% unexplained as > evidence that the AF was on the right track. The CIA thought however, > that the AF did not pay enough attention to possible patterns in the > ufo data. The small percent of unidentifieds is always a reason to > reject any further study. That was silly then and it is silly now. Given the amount of complexity that is inherent in eyewitness observations of non-identified aerial objects we _should_ expect to have unidentifieds that remain that way _after_ investigation. The purpose of performing statistical analysis on that dataset is to _further_ the stalled investigation of those observations. After all, do we need to collect data on how many times eyewitnesses observe the full moon and then perform statistical analysis on that data to determine that the Moon does indeed exist <grin>? My personal opinion is that earlier gov't-based and military-based data analysis was designed to explain as many cases as possible and use that dataset of explained cases as a statistical basis for ignoring the unexplained remainder. I think they properly assummed that the opposite approach, to collect and analyze the unexplained cases, was likely to yeild data patterning too closely consistent with existing classified aerial projects, or worse, too closely consistent with the media-based definition of "alien spaceships." (They were probably equally worried about both potential outcomes.) Well, we already know that the bulk of the unexplained cases 'seem' like "alien spaceships" because says so <grin>. It might be worthwhile to compare the isolated single observer sightings with the multi-observer sightings to see which and how many patterns exist in both datasets. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Project 1947 - Leads to Aircraft Encounter Cases From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 00:05:02 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:25:20 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Leads to Aircraft Encounter Cases The following leads possibly could be followed up in several ways. Areas close to the sightings may have newspaper accounts pertaining to these or other cases in the area. 1. From the Palo Alto Times (date uncertain, probably about 11 July 1959). Excerpt from an article about the Pacific Ocean sighting of 11 July 1959. (See UFO Evidence, Section X) entitled "Los Altos pilot has seen the flying saucers before" by Ray Spangler. CPT Richard Lorenzen of Los Altos, co-pilot of a Pan American flight that witnessed the 11 July 1959 object told of an earlier case. ".... Lorenzen, who has been with Pan-Am for 14 years and with the air force before that, spoke a little reluctantly about the affair. He went through something like this in 1949 while flying between Blegrade and Salonika. That time the object wasn't as vivid nor could it be discerned as clearly. "The, as this time there was an elaborate air force report form to be filled out. It's a standard six pages and filing it is rather a laborious task." 2. He is a rather cold lead from a letter to the NICAP Chicago Affiliate on 20 July 1965 from John G. Norris. Excerpt follows: "Finally, there is another report of a sighting that your organization should try to get hold of if it doesn't already have it. The man who could supply the necessary details is M. Willem Deawarte, Directeur-Generale, Sabena Belgian World Airlines, Sabena Terminus Building, Brussels 1, Belgium. "In brief, the story as I learned it from him the day of its occurrence (I was a consultant to Sabena at the time) is as follows: "There were at that time (1954) daily flights of Sabena planes between Brussels and Leopoldville in the Congo. One plane took off from Brussels and another from Leopoldville at about the same time, heading in opposite directions, passed each other over the African desert (at different altitudes and longitudinal corridors, of course), and arrived at their destinations at about the same time. While in flight, each plane was in radio contact with one or another of a succession of ground control points but not with each other. "One day, over the Sahara, the pilots, crew, and passengers of both planes made simultaneous, but independent, sightings of an UFO and reported this to their respective ground control stations. The pilots and navigators of each plane took appropriate sightings, noted times speeds, directions of apparent travel and the like from which computations were made showing that the two groups people had sighted the same object and agreed in detail of its appearance and behavior. Its path over the ground was fixed with precision by reference to cloud formations which alternately hid it from view and exposed it to view. This knowledge in turn allowed the observers to convert its observed angular displacement into an accurate expression of true speed. "The two independent reports agreed perfectly and were supported by the observations of the many passenger-witnesses. I should think that this would be a valuable bit of documentation, and I should think that Sebena would make it available to a serious group." I wrote to SOBEP in Belgium asking their help in gaining further details about this case. Due to language difficulties I have not heard from them. I also asked Richard Hall if NICAP had followed up on this case. He did not recall it. Possibly, it had been sent by NICAP to J. Hennessey in Britain for follow up. 3. From DISC DIGEST (Vol III, 1959, page 10), Den Haag, the Netherlands come the following report with no reference cited. "On the 27th of February [1954] the Dutch civilian pilot H. Dil, flying form Tunis (North Africa) to Amsterdam (Northern Holland), observed a Flying Saucer over the Mediterranean. Three other pilots of the K. L. M. (Royal Dutch Airlines) stated that they had confronted with Flying Saucers during their trips in 1954." This sounds like an summarized account from a newspaper article. 4. On page 23 of the above publication we have the following report: "June 28 [1958]: P. J. Krouwell, air pilot of the Royal Dutch Airlines, saw at his flight from Holland to America, near Shannon-airport (Ireland) in the early hours of this day a ball of fire passing his aeroplane. The ball started as a star with the brightness of Venus and growing to a round luminous object as big as 1/5 of the moon. The aeroplane was at a height of 10,000 feet. The weather ship "C" of Charley has observed the same ball of fire. Endglish and American authorities stated that this object could not have been a guided missile. Nearly at the same place the Dutch airliner Hugo de Groot crashed some month before." Thanks to Loren Gross and Ed Stewart. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:13:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:26:25 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 I really did lose track of some of my mail...and with it, something from John Powell I strongly agree with. John and I have had some angry exchanges. But when he discusses Budd Hopkins' work -- including Hopkins' collection of alleged samples of alien writing, supposedly observed by experiencers -- he says: > Why hasn't Hopkins (or whomever) had this symbology analyzed, why > haven't 'they' had the physical markings analyzed, why haven't 'they' > implemented electronic monitoring???? > These are all things that 'we' can't do ourselves. I don't have access > to the symbology or the people, I don't have access to the physical > markings or the people... > Perhaps in your next message you will have discussed these questions > with Hopkins and have some answers and suggestions? These are all excellent points, including the suggestion that I speak to Budd about them. It's absurd, for instance, that Budd doesn't know (and may not even have records of) how many of the experiencers he works with have the physical marks and scars he talks about so much. He likes to show photos of these marks, but he hasn't done even an elementary job of tallying them. Stewart Appelle, in his excellent summary and critque of abduction evidence in the current Journal of UFO Studies, mentions an obvious line of research. Experiencers, it's claimed, have anomalous "scoop" marks. Appelle wonders what proportion of experiencers have them, as compared to the population at large. He offers tentative figures, showing they're much more common among experiencers. No thanks to Budd, though...he can't provide those numbers. I've already spoken to him about a lot of things. I seem to be his friendly gadfly these days. One thing I've made a great point of are the writing samples. Originally he showed me 14, mounted under plastic in a scrapbook. His reason, he said, for not publishing them was to not contaminate the evidence. He thought it was even better if their existence wasn't known about. That way, anyone new who came forward with writing would be doing it spontaneously. Of course, I might add parenthetically, what good is that when we have only Budd's word in the first place that anyone offered writing samples spontaneously at all? One of the biggest lacks in his work has been outside observation, which would have been especially crucial at the start of his investigations, when the stories were much less likely to have been contaminated by what's in the media. Now, however, he has opened up enough to tell me he has 35 samples of the same writing! That exasperated me no end, and I told him quite firmly that he had to publish them. Rather sheepishly, I thought, he told me that he was going to make them public...but not, in my opinion, in at all the right way. What, exactly, he's going to do is a personal matter, and I don't feel that I can go into it. I disagree, and I'm going to tell him so. I'm also embarrassed not to be able to give the details of Budd's plan here. But one thing I've learned while working in responsible sections of the media (and yes, John, even you and I could probably agree that those exist) is that journalists need to keep some things they hear from their sources private, and this, I'm afraid, is one of them. For now, anyway. I acknowledge that my relationship with Budd is peculiar...I'm a friend, a critic, an advocate, and a neutral observer, all in one. Anyone who thinks that could be problematic has a point, and for whatever it's worth, I've told Budd that, about my role as an observer. I'm not the observer he needs (for a variety of reasons; he ought to be observed by psychologists and experienced police interrogators, in my opinion). In a way -- and I'm not sure this is wholly a good thing -- my relationship with Budd mimics his own relationship with the experiencers he works with. That is, he's their friend, advocate, neutral observer, investigator, and, believe it or not, even their critic. He tells them that some of their claimed experiences could well be dreams, more often than he's ever acknowledged in public. (Which doesn't help his credibility...not acknowledging this publicly very much.) In his defense, I'll say this. He's monumentally overworked. Unless he's lying to me, he makes no money on his abduction work, and in fact is deeply in a financial hole. He told me that, overall, he'll only break even, after all the years he's devoted to abductions, after Paramount buys the rights to a feature film based on Witnessed -- assuming the deal actually goes through. This, I know, may surprise many people, but it doesn't surprise me, since I know how little money most writers get for their books. His art career, which was substantial, but never the biggest in the world, has suffered. He's had personal problems as well. Meanwhile, he pours out energy and compassion for the experiencers he works with; I've seen this many times, and I'm sure it's genuine. There's no measuring how much this takes out of him, in time, not to mention emotion. He has boxes of letters he's never opened, which -- as I verified by opening a great deal of them -- include plea after plea for help from people who believe they might be having abduction experiences. Some of these letters would wring most of our hearts, regardless of our opinons of what might actually be happening to these people. But for the past couple of months, Budd hasn't even had time to read them, let alone act on them. None of which excuses his lapses in research, some of them elementary. What the whole picture shows, though, is a decent person, honorable and intelligent, taking on a burden that, when he started, hardly anybody else was willing to take. That's a burden both of investigation and emotional support. Now there's no question that the investigative work needs to be carried on more scientifically. But I wouldn't minimize Budd's value as a pioneer. Greg Sandow And a personal note to John Powell...I suspect, when the shouting dies down, that we agree on more than it looks like we do. Further, I'd guess that the things we agree on are far more important, in the overall research picture, than what we don't agree about.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Abduction?? From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:08:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:31:06 -0500 Subject: Abduction?? Hey guys. Happy new year!! Got a question I'd like to pose to you subscribers: What's the likelihood of an abduction NOT occurring in the event of an extremely close encounter (under 30 ft.) that takes place on a dark and deserted road with an object giving every indication that it's maneuvering to intercept? I'd like to think "they" took a pass on me, but I don't know how realistic that is. Any thoughts? Jerry Washington SD KENTUCKY/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Project 1947 - Re: 'Secret' Rand UFO Document From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:42:22 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:41:13 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: 'Secret' Rand UFO Document Re: The RAND Document Hi Jan, I meant to mention that the RAND Document copy I have is 32-pages. I can't remember what (size) Michael Ravnitzky reported. The document is impressive. On page 1 the author stated that the UFO subject was a "....potentially very significant problem." As I said earlier, it wasn't secret (or at least wasn't stamped as), but after reading it you can see why it was common knowledge and had to be extracted with some pressure. Fran Ridge UFO Filter Center MADAR Project slk@evansville.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: Eyewitness Testimony From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:22:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:42:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony >Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:48:27 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Eyewitness Testimony >References: <2.2.32.19961228082825.00d7f330@mail.globalserve.net> >> From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Eyewitness Testimony >> Commentary on the following article: >> >The Eyewitness >> >Imperfect Interface >> >Between Stimuli and Story >> >James R. Reich, Jr. >> >(The Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 17, No. 4, Summer 1993, Copyright 1993 >> >by the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the >> >Paranormal, 3965 Rensch Road, Buffalo, NY 14228, published quarterly >> >with a membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.) >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Incident at Exeter, New Hampshire * -------------- JC: John, I understood where you were coming from. I just couldn't resist. :-) No apologies are necessary from either of us. It is simply my way of reminding readers out there that it is cases such as "Exeter," which defy all logical, rational explanation and which are the very reason this mail list, others like it, and the discussions ensuing therein exist. When one considers the accurate history of the subject and what legitimate scientists like J. Allen Hynek and James McDonald discovered along the way, the importance of investigations being conducted regarding abduction claimants and animal mutilations is not to be underestimated. Take care, Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 'Alien' Writing From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:13:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:40:13 -0500 Subject: 'Alien' Writing Since I've written a lot here about samples of alleged alien writing I've seen, I thought it might be helpful to summarize, both because of the potential value this writing has on evidence, and because of its effect on me. I first heard about the writing from two experiencers who work with Budd Hopkins. They told me their stories independently. They know each other -- I've seen them both at Budd's support groups -- but they're not friends. Both told me essentially the same thing, with one difference. One said she'd been doodling the writing since childhood, and thought it might have something to do with the abductions she felt she'd experienced. The other thought he'd remembered the writing under hypnosis. (Parenthetically, I don't think there's any problem with alleged writing that surfaces after hypnosis. There;s at least one paper in the psychological literature documenting the use of hypnosis in police investigations. Evidence has been uncovered through hypnosis, corroborated, and used to get convictions. Obviously, the corroboration is key. In the case of supposed alien writing, there's no way to get direct corroboration, unless the aliens land, and we grab the little strip of notes the Martian ambassador uses when gives a speech...that's a detail from Mars Attacks, by the way; very funny movie. Anyhow, what we're doing here is comparing one sample of alleged alien writing to another. That some emerge under hypnosis seems irrelevant to me, especially once you read the full range of research studies on the subject.) Returning now to the narrative, both these experiencers drew the supposed writing for Budd. Both told me that he didn't say anything. Instead, he left the room and returned with a scrapbook in which he'd collected very similar samples. Both experiencers said they were devastated by the shock of seeing these. Budd confirmed these accounts for me, and, with great reluctance, showed me his book of samples. There were more than a dozen, mounted under plastic, each in a different handwriting. They were extraordinarily similar...but my testimony to that similarity doesn't count as evidence. In fact, Budd's whole procedure here is unfortunate. In my opinion, what he should have done would be something like this. Ideally, his sessions with experiencers would be moderated by neutral outsiders, who could confirm that the experiencers mentioned and drew the writing with no prompting from Budd. Budd would leave the room while the experiencers drew the supposedly remembered samples, which would immediately be sealed, and given to the outside observers. Budd would never see them. When a reasonable number of samples -- a dozen? 25? social scientists would have an idea of what the proper number might be -- had been collected, they'd be studied in a formal research project. This is when the sealed envelopes would be opened. Independent judges would compare pairs of samples, assigning a numerical ranking of similarity. (It should be kept simple, and might range from zero -- no perceived similarity -- to five, which would mean very great similiarity.) This is a standard procedure in social science research. It's also been used in parapsychology, I believe, to evaluate results of experiments in remote viewing. The evaluations of the separate judges would be averaged, giving an overall score. This, or something like it, is the procedure that ought to be followed. But now I want to say something more subjective, about my own reaction to the book of supposed writing samples. The similarity among them was so very great that -- speaking only for myself, now -- I didn't feel a need for objective outside study before I formed my opinion. Imagine looking at pages of books printed in French, Italian, English, Spanish, Portugeuse, and Rumanian. There would be differences, obviously. But you'd notice that all six pages were written by and large in the same roman alphabet. You wouldn't feel you needed an independent study to tell you that. And in fact the supposed writing I saw was even more similar than that. I've promised Budd not to describe it. But I can say this much: It's not nearly as complex as any written alphabet we know. Nor is it anything like Chinese or Japanese characters. It might be compared to Morse Code, though it's a level or two more complicated than that. But suppose it was morse code. Here's what I would have seen, as I turned the pages of Budd's scrapbook. Page one...nothing but dots and dashes. Page two...nothing but dots and dashes. Page three...nothing but dots and dashes. And so on, up to the end. There's no way that's not going to have an effect on me, or, I imagine, on most other open-minded people who might see it. I'll say again that my testimony has little value as evidence. The "writing" should be published and formally evaluated. Nor can I prove that any or all of the samples weren't faked, and that Budd and the two experiencers haven't been lying to me. Speaking only for myself, though, I have to say that this experience pushed my view of the abduction evidence quite a bit further out. That is, I only see two general possibilites. One is that the writing has been faked. The other is that something really extraordinary is going on. Maybe it's some kind of telepathic confabulation, evidently unconscious. Or else -- and I must say this strikes me as the more parsimonious explanation -- the experiencers really did see the writing, which in turn suggests that their abductions might be real. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: 1968 Rand Report 'UFOs: What To Do' From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:24:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 12:43:04 -0500 Subject: Re: 1968 Rand Report 'UFOs: What To Do' Regarding the information in the message below. This is incorrect the report is available now and has been for quite some time as I purchased it by mail from CUFOS over six months ago, its sitting on my desk as I write this. Why orchestrate a request for a document to be made public when it already is! At least make an effort to be informed about what really is and is not public information. To purchase from CUFOS, order item: George Kocher, UFOs: What to Do? Rand Corp 1968 $4.50 + $1.10 postage and handling Center for UFO Studies 2457 W. Peterson Avenue Chicago, IL 60659 Now you really know what to do, write a check if you want to read it. Gary Alevy > Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 03:43:01 -0500 (EST) > From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> > Subject: Important UFO Report May Become Available If You Ask For It (fwd) > > From: Michael Ravnitzky <MikeRav@ix.netcom.com> > > Important think tank Report on UFO's May Become Available Soon If You Ask > For It > > In 1968, the Rand Corporation (now called the Rand Institute) published a > 41-page technical report entitled: UFO's: What to Do. the author of the > report was George Kocher. The Rand Institute has kept the report secret > for 29 years, but many researchers would like to read it, and feel that > enough is enough. [snipped] Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | d005734c |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Project 1947 - Re: 'Secret' Rand UFO Document From: "Edward G. Stewart" <egs@NETCOM.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:28:10 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 15:48:21 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: 'Secret' Rand UFO Document Re: The RAND Document > I meant to mention that the RAND Document copy I have is 32-pages. I can't > remember what (size) Michael Ravnitzky reported. The document is 43 pages. Pages 1-32 is the body of the document. Pages 33 through 39 relates to the form developed by the University of Colorado study. Pages 40-41 consists of a bibliographycal reference. Also pages i and ii are the title and content page for a total of 43 pages. > The document is impressive. > On page 1 the author stated that the UFO subject was a "....potentially very > significant problem." As I said earlier, it wasn't secret (or at least > wasn't stamped as), but after reading it you can see why it was common > knowledge and had to be extracted with some pressure. > Fran Ridge > UFO Filter Center > MADAR Project > slk@evansville.net The document has been known since it was first written. One of the copies of the document I have includes what appears to be George E. Kocher's notes to J.A. Hynek, a cover note written to JAH and a letter from Lt. Col. Quintanilla to RAND. Apparently, the document was never classified, was an internal RAND document and was not favorably interpreted by the AF. The handwritten note to JAH explains Kocher's reasons for drafting the document. Below is that correspondance. ---------------------------- File ---- UFOs: What To Do? G.E. Kocher written summer 1968
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 15:19:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 15:47:10 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing Hiya Greg, hi all, In response to Gregs post, =========================================================================== >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 00:50:52 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 >References: <2.2.32.19961220145428.006df620@globalserve.net> >Still catching up....and considering the question of alleged alien >writing. >Peter Brookesmith and John Powell made helpful comments about testing >claims that people have seen the same writing. Here's the gist of some >of it, with quotes mixed and matched from both gentlemen: >> Lacking the priceless MSS, John Powell suggests comparing 'original' >> and 'fresh' samples of alleged alien writing from each claimant (a >> vertical test) and then comparing these writings claimant v. claimant >> (an horizontal test). >> > We compare the two samples (the fresh one from the claimant and the >> > original one from the claimant) and statistically on a character by >> > character basis we'd expect equal or better than 80% similarity to >> > advance that example further in our dataset. =========================================================================== I'd like to add some personal info to this thread because it has a direct bearing, and because it may be 'new info' to some. Three years ago I participated in five hypnosis sessions that were conducted by Budd (Hopkins). The sessions were based on a laundry list of 'consciously recalled' events and experiences that I had reported to him. The second session proved to be pivotal for me in terms of confirmation that these experiences were based in reality and not purely imaginative. One of the things that I consciously recalled was, I was being led down a cylindrical shaped and curved corridor. Everything, floors, walls, and ceiling is a dull metallic grey. On one side of me is a small grey alien. He takes me into an opening (doorway) in the wall and I find myself standing in a room that contains one other grey alien, (seated on a pedestal type seat in the middle of the room) and a curved screen that is floating (suspended) just inches away from the wall. (On my left as I enter the room.) I am led to the screen and I am told to memorize what I'm about to see. A large (black&white) logo resembling a 'Fleur de leis' with what looked like written characters within each point of the petals. I studied it carefully and then the scene fades. I couldn't remember how I had gotten to the corridor, or what happened after I was shown the symbol. This (how it began and ended) was the information that we had hoped to recover through hypnosis. We did, but that part of it is not relevant here. What is relevant is what happened after I was brought out of the hypnotic state. Budd threw a pad and a pencil on my lap and asked me if I could reproduce the symbols that I'd just recalled. Haveing just recalled them moments before (they were fresh in my mind) coupled with the fact that I'm an artist, prompted me to answer, "Yes, sure I can." Budd left the room and I reproduced [to the best of my ability] what I had been shown on the screen. When Budd came back he inspected them and I got to watch the blood drain out of his face as he did so. He became very pale and a little agitated, he told me to stay right where I was, and that he'd be right back. (Like I was going to run somewhere.<G>) He left the room and returned some few minutes later clutching a purple plastic folder to his chest. He asked me to promise him that I would never reproduce what he was about to show me, because it was one of a very few "tools" that he has to identify 'abductees' that has not been splattered all over the media or been published to death. It is of paramount importance to him to keep this material out of the general media and as 'pure' as he can keep it. Publication would end it's usefulness as a diagnostic tool. It's one of the very few things remaining that he knows folks didn't see in a book or on 'Strange Universe' or 'Encounters.' After I gave him my word that I wouldn't "publish in the Sunday Times", he placed the folder in front of me. When I opened it I saw that it contained six pieces of paper, all hand written, signed, and dated somewhere on each page. Mine was only seventh sample that Budd had acquired after 20 years of research. Every one [of those pages in the folder] contained the exact same characters that I had just drawn! Please bear in mind that these characters have no resemblance to anything I've ever seen before (as a written language.) I sat there stunned for a moment, and then I began to openly weep. The characters that I had drawn matched the ones on the papers in front of me (line for line) and (dot for dot). Those folks claimed to have seen those written characters in the same place I saw mine, during an abduction involving non-human beings on board a UFO. Make of that what you will. I'm not (for those of you who are fond of assigning motives to me) saying that this is 'scientific proof.' I am offering it for what it is, an area of study deserving of a second look. And something which is compelling in it's implications. It [is] worthy of further research and documentation. I hope that my sharing of this helps somehow. Poor Greg has been keeping my name out of this discussion out of propriety and respect, I'm grateful to him for that. That, and many other qualities that he consistently exhibits in all of his posts are [part] of the reason for my great fondness for him. And [the] reason that I'm sharing this personal experience. It's my way of standing next to a friend in support, and hopefully adding something of value to the info pool. There are several experiencers on this list, I'm curious if anyone else has had a similar experience? With either symbols being shown to them or samples of writing being displayed. I'm curious (and I'm sure others are too) about how common or uncommon this particular feature may be. We can do a little "in house" survey and independently/privately submit samples to EBK (neutral third party) and get his (unbiased) opinion as to similarity! He can then post his findings to the list . (But only if it's O-K with the Big Kahuna Himself! <G>) It'd be an interesting little study. Maybe not significant, but interesting nonetheless. Personal note: Just wanted to say,... Greg manages to present his views/ideas in a way that is always intelligent, fair, and carefully considered. It is [never] haphazard, personal or offensive. Rare, truly rare! Love you man, and every skeptical white hair in your flowing mane! (And I'm not just saying that because I'm after your Budweiser!) <G> John Velez, *V.O.C. (As the late Great Durante used to say, "I'm just a *victim of circumstance, hotcha-cha-cha!") ========================================================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 #3 The Lesotho Incident From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 29 Dec 96 21:34:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 15:49:26 -0500 Subject: #3 The Lesotho Incident ********************************************************************** *News* *from the* *International Roswell Initiative* *IRI* ********************************************************************** The International Roswell Initiative was founded by Kent Jeffrey,CA, (International Coordinator), Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg (German Coordinators) in 1994. ********************************************************************** *THE LESOTHO INCIDENT* *OF SEPT. 15, 1995* Part #3 In *part #1* we told you how we (Hans Juergen Kyborg and I) became involved in the whole affair by receiving the photocopied documents. In *part #2* we gave a summary and translated excerpts from the *exclusive report of Andreas von Retyi in the latest issue of the* *UFO-KURIER*. Here in *part 3* we would like to continue our summary of this report and translate further excerpts. For Andreas von Retyi everything in this affair began with a telephone call by a Mr. Alexander Stein (pseudonym) who explained to have received secret UFO documents via a mediator from a source who claimed to be a member of the South African Intelligence. This source already released information to UFO researchers several years ago regarding another case: "The Kalahari Incident" of May 1989. The name of the source is "J.van Greunen", now Major of the South African Air Force and member of the Intelligence Service. With regards to Kalahari many researchers thought of van Greunen to be a liar at that time but new information may indicate that this was probabely an error. Van Greunen is surrounded by a kind of mystery but no matter how one may think of this person -- it is obvious that this source knows something. Anthony Dodd, the British researcher of the Kalahari case, received completely independent from the person of van Greunen confirmation about the reality of this incident by high ranked members of the South African Intelligence. And not to forget the threatening due to his research he experienced at some time if he would leave England... So von Retyi and Stein decided to wait and see for a short while and then to conduct a sensitive research step by step and n o t to start with uncontrolled telephone calls though it was tempting to try the telephone numbers which were plainly displayed on the documents. To start somewhere, they contacted the South African Astronomical Observatory to ask for some celestial events at that time. They received a message from the astronomer Dr. John Caldwell who had forwarded their letter to a specialist for unusual celestial phenomena. This specialist was Bill Hollenbach, who had already received several requests regarding the time in question. He reported that around that time a bright ball of fire travelled through the sky and was to be seen in great parts of the Suoth African continent, from Zimbabwe up to Port Elizabeth at the south coast. There have been thousands of witnesses. Interesting enough, nobody was able to obtain any information whether governmental institutions had seen something on their radar screen or not. Strange, very strange was this official silence about a "meteor", as Hollenbach named this object in a letter where he, too, put the term in quotation marks. Just by chance (?), Retyi and Stein came in contact with a man who offered a letter, handwritten by van Greunen for a contact person at the German B.N.D.. In this letter van Greunen explains why there are orthographic mistakes in the documents (as you may have already noticed). These mistakes are so-called "HOT STOPS" and "HOT BLOCKS" which are to be found in every genuine secret document. They are used in documents from classification level "UlTRA" onwards to make it easier to declare them as a fake in case they become known to the public by some leakage in the chain of recipients. The body of the letter (written in capital letters) reads like this: "Dear (name blackened), Hope you are well. It has been a very long time since I have spoken to you. Well, I have sent you the documents you wanted. I hope the B.N.D. was able to do something with it. As I told you these documents has what is known in the South African Intelligence as HOT STOPS/HOT BLOCKS. These are certain characteristics which are given to a legal/authentic document to make it seem unauthentic when intercepted by an alien force/enemy. You may understand that we do this because the Government of South Africa is divided into two houses, ANC and National Party. Our Military Intelligence is under National Party/Old Regime rule and our enemy is the black ANC. Government. So, I hope you were able to find these HOT STOPS/HOT BLOCKS in these documents before judging them on face value. These documents originate from Military Intelligence/SASS in Pretoria, and are valid. You must ask (blackened word) to have a look at them. I also want to bring it to your attention that the Military Personell are special forces under Illuminated Nine control and are not at all listed in the MPD. or NDR directory. We call them Ghost Personell. (All personell connected to the ROLD TSR. operation)" Then some personal remarks follow, the signature is blackened. The letter was sent to Pullach which is the name of the German town where the Intelligence Headquarter is. In the weeks which followed several contacts were made with van Greunen who reported that more material could possibly be delivered, a video tape included and that some more Intelligence personell would like to talk about the incident. You must know that the somewhat "unstable" political situation in South Africa there seems to trigger certain unsteadiness among the South African Intelligence which caused developments like the remarkable revelation of the South African Intelligence Officer and former head of the "death squadron", Dirk Coetzee, who told publicly that in 1986 about eighty South African Intelligenc agents where put onto Olof Palme, the later mysteriously killed Swedish President and enemy of the Apartheid Policy. On November 10, 1996 another strange thing happened. Van greunen reported that a man had phoned him and had introduced himself as "Bob Lazar". He wanted some information about the Lesotho Incident from van Greunen. He, Lazar, said that he again is working in the Los Alamos laboratories in New Mexico, has contacts to the DIA and co-operates with Stanton Friedman. The latter statement is really weird because it is known that Friedman has publicly declared that Robert Lazar is telling lies. This "Robert Lazar" gave van Greunen three telephone number where he could be reached in Los Alamos. But something was wrong with these telephone numbers because the area codes were not those of New Mexico but - Virginia. Von Retyi checked the numbers and found out, that one number was from the Bolling Air Force Base in Virginia, the other one led him to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. Van Greunen was told to dial the third number the same day which led him to a department of the DIA in Virginia. After an identification procedure he was connected with a Gerneral who told van Greunen immediately to stop with this nonsense because the whole affair could raise problems between the U.S.A. and South Africa. Well, this is the state of affairs at the moment, as far as the facts allow to be published here. We all are well aware that many questions must remain unanswered at the moment. The sources are known from the "Kalahari Incident" and again, one is torn between the two possibilities: true or untrue? Because of their state of research of the documents, because of their own impressions of the person of the two sources by interviewing them and because of their experiences with German and international Intelligence Services which were very nervous, Von Retyi, Stein and Kopp at the moment tend to say that something has happened in South Africa on September 15, 1995. Here my translated summaries come to and end -- for now. We keep you informed if we have (done) something new. We have given you this information because we think that the truth (which is out there) must come to daylight for all and must not become perverted to commercial interests of individuals, groups or institutions. If you had difficulties with my English -- please be lenient, I am not a native writer. If you want to have a look at the German exclusive report of Andreas von Retyi in the UFO-KURIER and you have access to the World Wide Web then you may look at : > http://www.ufos.de. <
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 14:35:33 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:23:30 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing Dear List: Threads and thread titles are absolutely indispensable. Where would we be without them? At the same time, there is a certain inexorable law of decay at work. Remember the game in which a single message is supposed to be whispered around in a circle and comes out gobbledegook? Same with threads. Comments that initially address one particular aspect soon generate all sorts of tangents. For example, Greg Sandow recently posted a fascinating piece on his relationship with Budd Hopkins which appeared under the thread heading of -- "MJ-12 & Area 51"! Needless to say, by the time today's email and memories meld with yesterday's, I'm going to have no way to ever stumble across same again without doing some sort of painstaking search. I don't have the solution, I just raise the issue... As for 'alien writing,' some samples have been published in the literature already. Patrick Huyghe, my co-editor, interviewed psychologist Mario Pazzaglini on just that subject in the first issue of "The Anomalist," and we printed samples of three different scripts, taken from Pazzaglini's self-published "Symbolic Messages." The latter may still be available from Arcturus Books. Pazzaglini was also interviewed in the most recent issue of, I believe, "The Excluded Middle." If anyone is interested, we still have copies of "The Anomalist 1" on hand. It's a 126-page quality paperback with articles by Martin Cannon ("The Numbers Game"), Paul Rydeen ("UFOs and Cargo Cults"), Loren Coleman ("Fire Poltergeists"), Ted Holden ("Dinosaurs & Gravity"), Huyghe ("Daytona Beach Mystery Wave"), and others. Please note: I'm not "hawking" these as necessarily the same scripts that Budd has, although Pazzaglini does say in the interview, "Hopkins looked at what I have and he agrees that some samples look similar to what he has collected." If you're interested, The Anomalist 1 is available from me for $9.95 plus $2.50 shipping & handling. Please make checks payable to me personally at: Dennis Stacy Box 12434 San Antonio Texas 78212 TA4 is reviewed in the current issue (#94) of "Fortean Times." For more information and a toll-free telephone ordering number, see our Web page at: http://www.cloud9.net/~patrick/anomalist And excuse the shameless plug, but we really are quite proud of The Anomalist, an opinion I think Rebecca will enthusiastically second. Rebecca...uh, Rebecca? Oh, well, we have another reader, anyway. Greg...uh, Greg? Dennis PS: For what it's worth, Pazzaglini has even made a stab at "translation." From the interview: "It said something like 'In order to make light solid, show it to the moon.' I arrived at that on my own. But when I asked the abductee what this passage was about she said it was about how to make light solid." This raises an interesting question. If pursued by investigators like Hopkins, might not there be more corelations possibly found between possible subject matter and a specific piece of 'writing'?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 16:29:37 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 21:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' >Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:32:28 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Fake' and 'Self-Proclaimed' >References: <2.2.32.19961220150040.006d578c@globalserve.net> >As I catch up on some mail I missed, I see Michael Malone made a welcome >reappearance -- hi, Michael! Thanks. Real world troubles have kept me off the net as of late. I hope the "reappearance" is a somewhat constant one, even though I am currently without a computer. >He was commenting on that vexed discussion of "self-claimed" abductees. >He agrees the term is negative, but thinks, reasonably enough, that I >went too far in saying "abductee" is a fair word to use for someone who >claims to have been abducted: >> I disagree with Greg on the issue that an abductee refers to someone who >> beleives they have been abducted but we have no evidence of the abduction. >> There are far to many who do not hold this view. I think John Powell has >> the right of it when he attempts to clarify the lack of evidence for the >> abduction with a phrase like "self-claimed." A better word, in my opinion, >> is alleged. >I think you're right, Michael. The word "abductee" literally means >someone who was abducted. Maybe those of us who think about these things >every day -- poor us! -- can finesse the literal meaning, and understand >that the people we're calling abductees can't prove their experience was >real. One of the problems with reading legalize is that it is verbose, to the point of obscurity. The english language is to complex, and grows in complexity every day, for one word to mean what we intend to convey. >Dunno about "alleged," though. That also sounds negative to me. The more >I think about this terminology business, the more I'm inclined to go >with "experiencer." It only says that someone has had this experience. >We can use the term with respect, while reserving judgement on exactly >what the nature of the experience is. Perhaps the problem is with the term abductee. What we need is a new term that is defined as "one who honestly believes they have been abducted by sentient non-human beings and believe that these beings are either extra-solar, or extra-terrestrial in origin." I've struggled to make the "definition" as netural as possible, without being obscure. Can we even agree on a definition? Michael Malone KF4MYX -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: 'Backlash' From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:21:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 21:48:09 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 11:01:42 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' >References: <2.2.32.19961223141653.006ce178@globalserve.net> >> Everyone is screaming for electronic monitoring and >> vid-cams. Is this a joke? That won't yield any information >> that cannot nor has not already been disproved. Anything >> that has electronics, electromagnetic components, electrical >> systems, including batteries, are only a few of the things >> known to be affected directly by the proximity of a craft. >> Those toys just won't work at all. >That's simply wrong. Standard equipment operating in a standard >environment is and can be expected to _consistently_ operate in a >standard manner. If it doesn't, and if it consistently doesn't, then >we've (minimally) shown that _something_ objectively physical has >(repeatedly) occurred. >This is an example of lack of evidence being evidence. We know how >light is supposed to behave in a near vacuum (like space) and we knew >it would always behave that way. When it was found to behave >differently that eventually led to one of the proofs for the existence >of black holes. Even today we have no _yet_ found a black hole (because >you can't yet actually find them.) But we've found discreet areas in >space where we know something is because _everything_ _consistently_ >behaves differently there. This type of evidence is still evidence. >Right now we have no evidence that anything is happening and its a huge >leap to expect that a single simple series of experiments will take us >from nothing at all to something extremely specific. If all we got from >a series of simple experiments was the small step from nothing to >something that would still be the biggest step achieved to date in >abduction research. >In other words, if we can place some electronic equipment, that we've >previously bench tested and found to consistently work correctly and >previously field tested and found to consistently work correctly, in an >abductee's home and that same equipment then consistently (at >regular intervals, etc.) fails to work correctly we _KNOW_ something is >going on. (We also would know where, when and for how long. Depending >on the type of eqiupment we might even get a clue as to how it stopped >working correctly.) John, This is something I have argued, screamed, yelled, cajoled, ridiculed, and fought about for a long time. In your eloquence, you have made the point far better than I ever could. The fact that electronic monitoring devices fail IS an example of "evidence." Not all evidence is based on the senses of sight, sound smell, taste, or touch. In fact, the kind of statistical, anylitical, reproducable evidence that could be obtained from electronic monitoring is more valuable than all the current evidence we currently have. If we had a subject, who honestly believes he/she has been the object of abduction by an alien being, under electronic monitoring we would could begin to process of determination for what was the experience that caused this belief. The protocals for such an expermient would have to be worked out. It would almost have to involve more than simple location monitoring. A complete, independantly powered, electronic monitoring system would have to be established and placed on the subjects residence, or whatever locations are the subjects belief that abduction occur. At the least, assuming that the subject is abducted from sleep and from their residence, would be an internal house system that indicated where the subject was in the residence; a system to determine the vital signs of the subject, including but not limited to brain activity; video and audio monitors of the residence; ambient air readings; and a systematic method of turning the system on or off without the subjects knowledge. This would, of course, constitute the gravest possible invasion of the life of the subject. Keeping in mind that the research can not help but influnce the observation, such a study would do more to ligitmize abduction research than the current state of hypno-therapists have. >> We don't have the >> technology available to provide an effective alternative >> means of gathering irrefutable proof. >We don't know that to be true. We haven't even tried yet so why would >we assume it was true??? As I've mentioned above a negative result >achieved through strict controls and procedure would in fact be a >positive result. It's more than just a positive result, its EVIDENCE. While it doesn't prove what is happening, it proves that something is happening. And even evidence gained through a negative result is more than we currently have. What suprises me is the complete lack of initiative shown by current "leaders" to produce just this kind of evidence. Michael -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 30 The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #7 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:35:24 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 21:47:02 -0500 Subject: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #7 Welcome to The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #7 (Members 866 on 31-12-96) The Crop Circle Connector would like to wish all our readers a very Happy New year and look forward to your continue visits throughout 1997 and the coming Summer of circles. We are changing the format of the mailing list to make it easier for our readers to find the new updates on the Connector. From now on we are linking all the new material on the Whats New page, which you can find by clicking on the link or icon on:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/connect.html The updates: ------------ We feature a ReaAudio file of Colin Andrews talking about the Oliver`s Castle Video during the Bristol Conference on 15th December. We have updated the contents for the 5th Issue of the magazine UFO Reality. Out NOW! We have added a New Homepage for Ed Sherwood. It is called Millennium/Ed Sherwood Homepage. We have included a new article by ilyes on her Homepage regarding the Oliver`s Castle Video. We have included on the Conference listing the up and coming conference in Cardiff hosted by Kerry and Tom Blower. And finally we are advertising a very important new Crop Circle video from the Netherlands. WE recommend it highly! Amust for any Croppie`s video library. All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 The Anomalist From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:18:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 02:00:54 -0500 Subject: The Anomalist Dennis Stacy wrote: > And excuse the shameless plug, but we really are quite proud of The > Anomalist, an opinion I think Rebecca will enthusiastically second. > Rebecca...uh, Rebecca? Oh, well, we have another reader, anyway. Greg...uh, > Greg? Let's see, Dennis...which opinion will Rebecca second? She'll agree that you're proud of your journal? Ahhh, the forests of syntax.....<laughing> Probably she'd second the opinion I have, which is that it's a damn fine piece of work. Intelligent, informed, and even literate. Dennis can be as shameless as he likes. He's entitled. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Abduction Question From: Julie Salvadore <Coyotee9@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:26:33 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 02:00:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction Question Clark, Thanks for your response to the question I posed. Everyone except one person that responded had some sort of military connection. I don't know if it is relevent or not. I believe it is. I used to live in Chico, California, not far from Oroville. Beautiful area down there. Again thank you for responding. Julie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Abduction?? From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:42:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 02:01:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction?? > Got a question I'd like to pose to you subscribers: What's the > likelihood of an abduction NOT occurring in the event of an extremely > close encounter (under 30 ft.) that takes place on a dark and deserted > road with an object giving every indication that it's maneuvering to > intercept? I'd like to think "they" took a pass on me, but I don't know > how realistic that is. Any thoughts? > Jerry Washington > SD KENTUCKY/MUFON Jerry, speaking only for myself, I think we'd be pretty rash to try to answer that. Even if, for the sake of argument, we think we're certain that abductions really do take place, we'd be foolish to think we understand the alien MO. Two thoughts. One, not very helpful for your hope that they passed you up, is that David Jacobs thinks all close encounters are abductions. He should speak for himself on this one; I don't want to put words in his mouth. I believe he may feel that many distant UFO sightings are marks of an abduction, too. More practically, though...if you feel you may have been abducted, you should ask yourself a series of fairly standard questions. Do you have conscious memories of anything strange happening the night you saw the UFO? Did you have a period of missing time? More generally, have you seen lights in your home, and particularly in your bedroom, that you find hard to explain? Have you ever had the feeling you were flying? Do you have memories of people or beings standing by your bed? Do you have marks on your body that you feel you can't explain? Have you had periods of missing time in the past, particularly as a child? Have you seen UFOs before? I suppose there are some people on this list who will be horrified to see me mentioning these questions, as if I was encouraging you to believe you've been abducted. What I'm doing, though, is, for better or worse, passing on to you the kind of questions Budd Hopkins or David Jacobs might ask. I'm also suggesting that you might want to look for signs of abductions throughout your life, if you believe you might have been taken on that particular night. The supposed pattern is that people are abducted not once, but repeatedly. I doubt there are many experiencers without some degree of conscious memory. So -- assuming for the moment that the standard abduction scenario is at all accurate -- if you were abducted that night, you surely were abducted at other times, too. And you should have some fragmentary memory of those abductions. Hope this helps. Greg Sandow There's a longer series of questions Dave Jacobs gives to people who feel they might have had these experiences. If you're curious, I can post it on the list.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Terminology From: SGBConsult@aol.com <Steve Bassett> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:22:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 02:02:35 -0500 Subject: Terminology In a message dated 96-12-30 21:51:58 EST, Greg Sandow wrote: > >Dunno about "alleged," though. That also sounds negative to me. The more > >I think about this terminology business, the more I'm inclined to go > >with "experiencer." It only says that someone has had this experience. > >We can use the term with respect, while reserving judgement on exactly > >what the nature of the experience is. Michael Malone replied: > Perhaps the problem is with the term abductee. What we need is a new term > that is defined as "one who honestly believes they have been abducted by > sentient non-human beings and believe that these beings are either > extra-solar, or extra-terrestrial in origin." > > I've struggled to make the "definition" as netural as possible, without > being obscure. Can we even agree on a definition? _________________ Terminology has the power to self-generate epistemology. As historical evidence prior to the modern era (1947-1996) is gathered, the spectrum of encounter experiences continues to broaden. In this time period three terms have been most prevalent: contactee, abductee, and experiencer. "Contactee" as a basis for consensus was weakened by its use during the "space brother" period and with other later extreme fringe reportage. "Abductee" has a substantive lineage which gained strength after the Hill case and further developed with the work of Budd Hopkins and other early investigators. "Experiencer" is a much more recent nomenclature which emerged from support groups with impetus from group members dissatisfied with "Abductee". It has been particularly embraced by Dr. John Mack's Program for Extraordinary Experience Research, one of the most prominent research and support organizations in the field. Not uncharacteristically, these terms have created lines of debate. This debate is exacerbated by the personal and emotional involvement of the participants in much of the developing evidence. Not enough is known about this phenomenon to rely upon narrow nomenclature, however comforting. Motivations are ascribed to entities not yet conclusively proved to exist, for conduct as yet not understood, within contexts completely outside consensus reality. The wave/particle conundrum in subatomic physics is a good model. Until more evidence is in, a beneficial course might be one of hoping for the specifics while expecting a protracted period of generalities. Unlike most fields of scientific research, certain aspects the this sub-field of UFOlogy place exceptional demands on the education, experience and personal values each investigator brings to the work. As such, this pivotal field of study is both complicated and well serviced by the diverse range of approaches represented by Sims, Smith, Jacobs, Carpenter, Boylan, Hopkins, Mack, and others. The likelihood that any one camp is precisely on target, given the extraordinary elusiveness, complexity, and paradigm challenging nature of the unfolding evidence, is slim. There is a painful need for tolerance at this point. The community of UFOlogy is still building the formal structures for ordered investigation and peer review. The field has struggled against the effects of advanced speculation and theorizing running well ahead of the evidence. Of course, the involved participants have a powerful need to put language to these encounters - to find some solid ground upon which to stand. Each must cope in their own way. There is, however, something to be said for an intrinsic nimbleness - a readiness, given the huge potential for unprecedented intellectual quakes in our very ground of being, to set down on that piece of earth still intact when the shaking is over. Steve Bassett SGBConsult Afterthought: There may be merit in a formal, broad based attempt by the community to expand the CEI, II, III, IV schema so as to describe the full array of encounters in forms less emotional and open to schism.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 [Antigravity] Hello and Working devices...! From: "Steve Wingate" <swingate@crl.com> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:39:39 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 03:10:42 -0500 Subject: [Antigravity] Hello and Working devices...! -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Robert G. Halsey" <halseyb@govonca3.gov.on.ca> To: <antigravity@primenet.com> Subject: [Antigravity] Hello and Working devices...! Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 01:15:46 -0500 Hello to everyone! My name is Robert Halsey (please refer to me as Bob) from Toronto Ontario. I work in the Computer field with VAX systems mainly. I have my B.Sc. in Computer Science, but did an unofficial minor in Physics. I joined the Antigravity mail list/conference a couple of months ago, and have been getting the volumes of E-mails every day. Most are quite interesting, although I do see a little overquoting sometimes and tangents, but overall, I quite enjoy this conference. One of the things I expected to see when I joined was discussion of real research and real working machines that people are currently working on. While I've seen a little of that in the last few days, overall the discussion seems to be more theoretical or historical (that ancient East-Indian Rama civilization memo was Great!). In pursuit of real working devices today, I would like to relay some information on one person I have met and what he is working on. The gentleman's name is Pierre Sinclaire in Fort Langley, B.C. (near Vancouver). He has been working on a device original built by David Hamel, now in Ontario. I'll make the overall story brief, but will give references on where to get more details. David Hamel attests to having an encounter with a UFO in 1975. Supposedly it was a psychic experience as opposed to an actual abduction. During this encounter he was given a "tour" of their ship and its principles of opposing magnetic fields were explained to him. Upon release, he was determined to duplicate this functionality. Through the years, he has pursued this with significant success. The devices he has built have similar electromagnetic/gravitational effects as do "classic" UFO encounters. Whenever he starts his machine in motion, all electric devices within several hundred feet go completely on the fritz. His two most successful tests to date have had a hole blown through the roof of his garage, and a few years later, he built a larger device which when he inadvertently started it one night, started glowing different colours and as it speed up, it took off never to be seen again! His main problem has been funding, and since he isn't a scientific person himself, he has also had a problem understanding exactly what was happening. That's where Pierre Sinclaire comes into the picture. Pierre has done significant research into antigravity effects on his own and joined up with David Hamel to approach the testing in a more scientific way. I have had an involved discussion with Pierre to understand how these devices worked. The device that David/Pierre is working on is based on opposing Magnetic fields interacting at specific changing angles. The devices themselves involve a "wobbling" motion of compressed opposing fields which when contained within a metallic rim, generate strong electrogravitational effects. In the atmosphere, these devices also employ contained air flow for additional control. The surrounding apparent electromagnetic interference effects are supposedly actual electrogravitational effects that are impeding circuits at a quantum atomic level as opposed to an electrical interference. Pierre expects to have his most recent creation completed sometime in the January time frame, and I am anxiously waiting word on what happens! Various other researchers have been working on similar magnetic devices as well as tapping into the Overunity energy aspects of these magnetic effects. One person, John Searl, an electrical engineer, did some research on opposed wound coils and supposedly had one device he built take off on him as well! There is one fellow John Hutchinson, also in Vancouver, who has done some testing with two positioned Tesla coils and a Van Degraf generator and has supposedly (I would like to see this one in person), caused complete gravity negation on some testing objects, as well, he has observed matter state effects. Anyway, to summarize. I hope this generates some additional interest in real, happening today, types of research. Pierre Sinclaire is offering a book written by Jean Manning on the history of David Hamel and his research, called The Granite Man and the Butterfly. As well, he has a videotape available of a conference where he explained a lot of the research/history of the project. All proceeds from the sale of these items go towards the research. It's an interesting book, with some additional chapters on other research in the area. Get it and help the project! For more information on this, take a look at "www.cascadia-net.com/magnet". I found out about this project through another source of a lot of information on several of the topics of discussion within this conference, www.keelynet.com I can't emphasize enough how fascinating the Keelynet site is!!! Moderator Jerry Decker has accumulated a massive volume of current and historical material on all aspects of what some would term "weird science". He evaluates material he receives before posting it and generally adds a "critique" of the material he posts. He has a dial-up database in Texas much larger than his Website can contain, but there are mirror sites that do contain most of his original collection. Daniel Woolman asked me to pass on the information about Pierre when I joined, so there it is! I hope you find it interesting. Sorry for it being so long...! Robert (Bob) Halsey halseyb@gov.on.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #7 From: Beyond Boundaries <jmurphy@onramp.net> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:00:30 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 03:12:28 -0500 Subject: Re: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #7 At 09:47 PM 12/30/96 -0500, Mark Fussell wrote: >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:35:24 +0000 >To: reaw@dnet.net >From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> >Subject: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #7 >Welcome to The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #7 >(Members 866 on 31-12-96) >The Crop Circle Connector would like to wish all our >readers a very Happy New year and look forward to your >continue visits throughout 1997 and the coming Summer >of circles. [snip] Hi Mark - I just watched Janet and Bert's documentary this evening - The absolute best I have ever seen - even supersedes Colins' Undeniable Evidence - Those guys from the Netherlands are sincere! I have met them several times now out in the circles of Wiltshire. I wish we could put Stuart Conway's photography on our video with Janet and Bert's film to make the best documentary ever - Bert asked me if I had ideas how to do that - which I have no expertise in at all - but between the two videos we have the world's best and someone out there knows what to do with it - we just have to locate that person - Joyce BEYOND BOUNDARIES - Research and Expeditions Worldwide **************************************************************************** New Website ( check it every few days for updates ) - http://rampages.onramp.net/~jmurphy **************************************************************************** PO BOX 250 RAINBOW TX 76077
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Handling the News Media From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 12:06:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 03:13:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media At 06:08 AM 12/29/96 -0500, you wrote: >>From: Rob McConnell <misterx@WarpLink.com> >>I must reply to this "masterpiece of misinformation" that the writer is >>trying to pass the buck of the poor reporting of UFO by the media to the >>source where it actually belongs.....people within so-called UFO >>organizations who have no idea of what they are looking for or looking at. >>Now, as a journalist, broadcaster and parapasychologist, I too am >>concerned with the misinformation that gets to the media and the manner in >>which members of "ufology reporting clubs" gather their information and >>distribute it with their own hidden agendas. >[snip] >>On one show, a Director of an International UFO Organization who was >>identified in a recent book as having video tape footage of the >>Brookhaven, Long Island incident, told me that in order to try and get to >>the bottom of the Area 51 mystery, he actually tresspassed on private >>property and was proud of it. He was a person who was saying that the >>conspiracy of the Area 51 was against the law in the manner that the >>government was hiding the truth from their citizens. I asked him, "so, >>inorder to prove that the government is breaking the law and that there is >>a conspiracy, it's alright for you to tresspass on the private property of >>the US Government there by breaking the law?" There was a pause and no >>answer was brought forthwith. >[snip] >I was a participant in that 'show' - referred to above. >McConnell is a former policeman. Once a cop, always a cop. >Breaking the Law!? "...he actually tresspassed {sic} on private >property..."! At that point in the 'show' his focus and >attention were completely lost. Actually, what Tom Theofanous >_did_ answer, smugly and with a huge grin on his face was "YUP!" Grin...I sent a fax of the above to Tom, Errol...I ask him if the author of the article was referring to him. I knew that he had been there. I was there also, but in May, 93. Of course I didn't cross "the fence." <g> >As to the 'book' that McConnell refers to... I won't demean the >authors who post here by mentioning either its title or so-called >writer. Suffice to say that 99% of it is pure unadulterated fiction. >When we were sent a promo-copy several of us sat around just >howling with laughter at the 'facts' about Carp, Long Island, >Tom's doctoral degrees and the greed and naivete of the publisher. Ha, ha, ha...yeah...I made Tom a copy of the "audio book," on the incident. I received it from Mark Center in Orange County, California. I like the way he "changed the pronunciation" of the names of the characters...as you know he called me Mike Christie...<g> You are correct, much of the book is fiction, however, many of the characters, i.e., Rev. Stanley, M. Parente, etc. are real people. I have talked to them myself. I can't begin to vouch for the people he claims he talked to at Brookhaven. I haven't talked to any of them. >As to having "a copy of the Brookhaven, Long Island tape", so what? >There are many UFO researchers who've seen the tape. It's inconclusive. >What does that have to do with the price of bacon? Yep...I finally received a copy of it myself. Not from John Ford, but from one of the Japanese "Saturday Night UFO Specials." Apparently, John Ford sold it to them. He called me about it, while the incident was on going, but would not give me a copy because he has supposedly contracted it out to "Unsolved Mysteries." Of course, eventually that fell through after several noted UFO analysts, such as Bruce Macabee, among others told Bob Kiviat that it was a hoax. I have an audio library of conversations with John Ford, from day one of that case, as well as written letters exchanged with him and a letter in reply from the Police Chief of North Moriches (if I an not mistaken, I am writing this off the top of my head. I can verify if necessary). >[snippage] >>Rob McConnell, >>Executive Producer of THE INTERNATIONAL PARANORMAL BROADCAST NETWORK, >>Host of the IPBN Syndicated show THE 'X', >>Publisher of THE 'X' Newspaper. >Thanks Rob McConnell for yet another of your invaluable contributions >to UFO research. >ebk Thanks for your input on this Errol. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Handling the News Media From: "Michael J. Woods" <mike.woods@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 01:59:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 03:11:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media Re: Handling the News Media......by Joe Lewels, Ph.D. A response to the above recent posting by John Powell Anyone who takes the UFO mystery seriously, and who is currently working in major market media has encountered the 'UFO interview' - the sincere, believer who states with utter conviction, "The aliens control underground bases near Dulce, Montana under a secret agreement with the government." Could be, but proof....even just a receipt from the local Domino's for a large double cheese, double mutilated cow parts pizza delivered to an empty field, remains non-existent. A recent posting to UFO UpDates, a reprint from the May 96 MUFON UFO Journal of Sequin Texas, titled 'Handling the News Media: What MUFON Members Need to Know', was at best a rehash of tired second hand horror stories and sterotypes, with at least one sweeping but wrong generalization and two statements that push the threshold of slander/libel. Let's start from the beginning. The author, a self proclaimed former journalist/journalism professor provides no background on himself. --"As a former journalist and journalism professor, I have often winced with embarrassment at the antics of broadcast anchormen who somehow feel obliged to end every UFO story wth a snide comment or a dumb joke."-- I've viewed tapes from all over Canada and the U.S. dealing specifically with local news coverage of UFO sightings. Since the mid 80's I can't recall half a dozen stories of local sightings, usually highlighting a viewers amateur videotape, that ended with any "raised eyebrows." And if footage of an unidentified object seen locally isn't explanation enough of why it was shown on the news, I suggest the journalism professor return to class, day one, under What is news and why do we cover it....subheading: Proximity. A local event of significant impact on the community is as important or more imporant than a national event with little local impact. --"The reason, of course, is the ratings. TV stations and newspapers are, first and foremost, businesses, and it is this fact that accounts for much of their content. Editors and news directors are well aware of the public's seemingly unquenchable thirst for UFO information..."-- We'll discuss ratings and especially "sweeps week" shortly but for now we'll note in passing that no one in UFO research has ever attempted or made any type of profit from their activities. Everyone in UFO research is dedicated solely to the expansion of knowledge and makes no effort to make money from that. No UFO researcher has ever colored or shaded the facts, altered or withheld information to make their work more interesting and more "inexplicable." As for the public's "seemingly unquenchable thirst...." it seems pretty quenched. The only show to regularily feature UFO reports, SIGHTINGS had to move from FOX to a U.S. cable channel. Why? The ratings stunk, it was cancelled, then picked up for another run (in a smaller market). Unsolved Mysteries used to do the odd UFO bit, but the public decided the Mysteries could stay unsolved. To the best of my knowledge, Unsolved Mysteries has also been cancelled. And while I personally love the X-Files, and its a darling with the critics, the cruel reality is it does break into the weekly Top Ten, but its more consistently a Top 20 show. Not bad...but. Next the article tells three stories of reporters contacting MUFON about UFO's. The first anecdote, if it was a report on a sighting would be thrown out by any UFO researcher as far too anecdotal without enough fact. We're told the MUFON State Section Director in El Paso, Texas was contacted by a reporter wanting a quick interview for a three part news series on UFO's. In an off-the-record meeting they learned the reporter had been assigned the story by his news directors (what a surprise), the news director wasn't particularily interested in UFO's (should have been losing sleep over them) and that next week was sweeps week so ratings were the reason the station was doing the series. And each segment would be two to three minutes long. The State Section Director is quoted as being amazed at the lack of professionalism of the reporter, for not having done research before daring to disturb the constant struggle to reveal the truth that the State Section Director is engaged in. We're never told who the reporter is or what station they work for. I will say that any news director who assigns a series a week before it goes to air is an idiot...if it happened that way. But the TV station I work at here in Toronto, the largest independent station in the country, also does special series during ratings periods...and those are assigned well in advance. It can take a week to EDIT a half decent three part series. As for two to three minutes per segment, well....most local newscasts run thirty minutes. Take away the commercials, the chit-chat happy talk, the weather and the sports (and entertainment if the line-up goes that way) and you're lucky if you get 12 minutes of news in a news show. They were talking two to three minutes per segment or one-sixth to one QUARTER of the entire news segment. Right in there with Zipper Willy at the White House and Mother Theresa's last gasp. No doubt the author feels the entire show should have been dedicated to UFO's. So I guess this article tells us the news director at the local CBS affiliate in El Paso, Texas is incompetent. And in their incompetent manner they decide their viewers want to know more about UFO's, probably in general and any local incidents. But instead of spending two or three working days reading the proper books, this reporter contacts an organization that was supposedly founded to uncover and spread the truth about the UFO phenomena.....and runs into a brick wall. MUFON in its infinite wisdom declines to participate. After all, the reporter knew nothing about the subject. MUFON certainly has more important things to do than educate a reporter....evidently because in its brilliance it doesn't realize that reporter stands proxy for 100-thousand or more people (dependent on audience and market size and share, or publication circulation) And while the State Section Director is being amazed at the lack of knowledge of this reporter, can we ask how much the SSD knows about local crime, or local politics or whatever that reporter covers on a more regular basis. Perhaps he might be amazed at the SSD's lack of knowledge. Next in "Handling the New Media" we're given a five line anecdote, telling us the International Director of MUFON was contacted by an un-named reporter at an un-named newspaper (Picture that as a UFO report: We have a sighting but I won't tell you where or who saw it) who wanted an interview and information on the Gulf Breeze case. --"He knew absolutely nothing about the events of Gulf Breeze, says Walt, even though Pensacola is just a few mile across the bay. He didn't even know who Ed Walter was."-- Sure, no way a reporter is going to tap a few keys on his terminal and call up his own papers morgue on local UFO stories. No way he'd pose like he'd never heard of Ed Walters, to see how the person being interviewed reacts to Ed Walters name or to see if the statements being made by an influential person like the International Director of MUFON were in any way contradictory to early statements made by him or his organization. Then we got a heart-warming story of a good reporter, who rolls over, plays dead and writes a warm and fuzzy feature just in time to promote a UFO lecture. In that we get our first REAL idea of what this supposed journalist now expects reporters to do when they deal with UFO stories. Write exactly what MUFON wants or you are the enemy. No? Did you read the whole article. --"The diffence between these two cases of media contact serves as a good lesson for MUFON members who may not have experience in dealing with the press."-- They serve as a lesson all right. They teach us the author can't add. He cited THREE examples...two bad, one good. The grand finale of the piece was a ten step program on how to handle the media. It's better labeled How to make sure you get very little media exposure and what little coverage you get is hostile. The first point:, appoint a spokesperson, direct all media enquires to them is the only one that makes sense. One spokesperson means the organization speaks with a single clear voice. Always better to be soloist than just another voice in the UFO choir. 2 --"seek out reporters who are interested in and knowledge about the subject..."--. Great idea. But how do you identify which reporters are interested in and knowledgeable about UFO's until they've REPORTED on the subject? If you're MUFON, they contacted you before they went to air or print. If you followed the suggestions in the article, you probably alienated them. (Is that a freudian slip or just a really bad pun?) 3--"Media contact is optional...."-- Yup and that's a two way street. The media is under no obligation to contact MUFON for comment on a UFO story no matter how all together big-time and important it believes itself to be. 3--"Remember that anything you say to a reporter is quotable....For that reason, many reporters will attempt to strike up a casual conversation without telling you that you are being interviewed."-- Picture that one. A television reporter shows up at your office, camera in tow, sits on the corner of your desk and casually strikes up a conversation. You, being brain dead, don't realize the bright light, video camera and gibbering idiot posed on your desk constitute an interview and admit to sexual trysts on-board a UFO with Elvis. Or better still. You're at work and the phone rings. You answer and a total stranger, who doesn't identify him or her self or who they work for, try striking up a conversation with you over the phone. The talk soon turns to UFO's and of course, you don't wonder WHY a total stranger has phoned you up to chat about UFO's and you spill the Elvis secret. 3--"...it is in your best interest to consider every newsperson as an adversary, for he is capable of making you look extremely foolish."-- This is the single, dumbest piece of advice in this entire, ill-considered article. For fifteen years I have been a working journalist. Not in some ivory tower, but in the trenches. Before the sun comes up on January 2nd, I'll be in the station, writing the news for the most popular morning show in Toronto and I can guarantee you that if I call someone for information on a story, no matter what that story is, and the person on the other end treats me as an adversary they will find they get unsympathetic treatment on the inital story...and I'll likely keep looking into them because when a cold call gets a hostile reaction most news people's first reaction is to ask "What are they covering up." In MUFON's case, it could be they're covering up the fact they don't know much. Be assured, if you deal with the media on a hostile basis all you'll get out of it is hostile coverage. And you are within your rights and SHOULD refuse to do an interview if you feel uncomfortable. But if you refuse to be interviewed, don't bitch later because you weren't involved. And don't be surprised if the media doesn't ever call back. Why waste the time? Deadlines are tight. 4** I've no major arguments with this section...but again, remember the media runs on deadlines...sometimes there just isn't time for a pre-interview meeting. 5--"Remember, reporters use people to get a story that will sell newspapers or get ratings. Their own interests come first, not telling the truth."-- This provides us with a great deal of insight into the ethics and morality the author brought to his former occupation...but little as to how real reporters work. Reporters in print worry about story placement and by-lines, broadcast reporters worry about how much air-time their stories get...but they don't worry about ratings or newspaper sales. That's the worry of the managing editor or the news director. As much as anything else, this shows how little the author knows about the news business. And putting their own interests before the truth would also be a very accurate way of describing an awful lot of UFO researchers. 6--"realize that even though they interview you for 20 miutes, they may only use a 10 or 20 second film clip of the most sensational statements you make. It will be totally out of context and could make you look foolish.--" If the author would care to repeat that last sentence outside, he'll have a fight on his hands. I don't mean verbal. This sentence states, as fact, that no matter who you are, your interview will run out of context. This approaches libel/slander (depends: is this article considered published, or broadcast. In a sense it's both.) It would be just as accurate to say, from a journalists point of view. "Don't bother interviewing MUFON. They all have three teeth and live in tar paper shacks or trailer parks." 7--This one's pretty clear cut. In essence, don't lie. You can't prove, even to a believer like me, there was a crash at Roswell. (Yes, I think there was one, too. But you can't prove it.) You don't know if the object reported was from outer space, inner space or space-for-rent..so don't guess. 8--Here's a real head shaker. If you hold public meetings, ask if there are media reps present, then tell them the meeting is off-the-record or have them leave. Try to remember that reporters are members of the public too. They have the right to attend a public meeting. I can't believe anyone, in anyway associated with MUFON would encourage secrecy as a way of uncovering secrets. Kicking a reporter out of a public meeting might make you feel important but its likely to have one of two effects. 1.) Your organization will be completely ignored until such time as a saucer lands at City Hall and invites only your organization on-board. 2.) An in-depth, entirely hostile examination of your little puddle of UFO research. Likely include in-depth interviews with the biggest Space Cadets in your local group. Probably end up denying you ever saw Close Encounters, let alone admit you have an interest in UFO's. 9--This is funny. If you're having a guest lecture, arrange for them to appear during local sweeps week, then offer to co-produce a UFO segment for a local news director, centered on your guest. Yeah, right. First off, and again a demonstration of how little the author knows about the news business...sweeps week is actually sweeps MONTH. During the four week period, any two of the four weeks will be a "hot" week, i.e. a week when the audience numbers are actually measured. The numbers determine the advertising rates. No one actually knows which of the weeks are "hot"...but information leaks...usually as the "hot" week starts...not in advance. And if you have a need to have someone laugh in your face, take your UFO group down to the local TV station and offer to co-produce a news series. Unless you are active in the business, you honestly wouldn't know how to START a news series, let alone produce an entire one, shaped and slanted to fit your upcoming lecturer. If you DO know a news director dumb enough, send me his name. I'd be interested to know if they'd willingly repeat the experience. Want some real tips for dealing with the media. Try these. Be honest. Don't pretend to know more than you do. Nothing wrong with "I don't know" as an answer to any question. There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers. And the media doesn't need to take clips out of context to make people look dumb. Most manage on their own without extra help. Stick to the facts of the specific story. Don't volunteer too many cross-reference stories...they can't all be checked and can just confuse things. Think, talk, act local. If you're talking to TV, remember, without pictures or videotape there is very little reason for a UFO story. (Unless, of course, it lands at City Hall. In Buffalo, it still wouldn't be reported unless the inhabitants were robbed or the saucer caught fire.) Don't want to look foolish on camera? Don't act or say anything foolish. Talking about alien-human hybrids or the ever-popular underground alien bases might be great fun at a convention, but lay that one on a reporter who's just come from a drug-related murder scene to interview you and you'll soon see them rolling their eyes, checking their watches and wondering how long before YOU're hauled away. Even though common sense has become one of the rarest substances on this planet, if you use a little you can come through a media interview, with your pride and credibility intact, having provided some much-needed publicity to a very deserving topic. Follow the advice contained in Handling the News Media and you'll find yourself manhandled and mutilated by the news machine. UFO's are real. It's our job to prove it and get the word out. Building walls between the research community and the media is the surest way to ensure our real adversaries, those who engage in cover-up and distortion, will win and the truth be buried. Let's not throw dirt on the people who are helping to unearth the big secret. Michael J. Woods (Note: Mike Woods has worked for 15 years in the news busines. He started in radio, working as a news writer at CHUM AM & FM, and lead reporter at CKWW radio. He was editor and managing editor of Business and Finance Magazine. For the last five years he has been with CITY-TV in Toronto, for the last three years as a news writer for CITY-TV's Breakfast Television. He also conducts UFO research and lectures on UFO'S and the media. So there.) The truth can STAY out there, send in the fantasy.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Handling the News Media From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Tue, 31 Dec 96 13:44:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:26:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media Kudos indeed to Mike Woods for his excellent comments on the media. My own experience doing interviews for more than 25 years is that he is right on. There have been very very few instances of my being stabbed in the back by an interviewer. They have constraints. If we don't learn how they work, don't blame them. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: rfsignal@sprynet.com [Cathy Johnson] Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 07:03:32 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:27:45 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 15:19:06 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing >To: updates@globalserve.net >Hiya Greg, hi all, >In response to Gregs post, =========================================================================== >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 00:50:52 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 >References: <2.2.32.19961220145428.006df620@globalserve.net> >Still catching up....and considering the question of alleged alien >writing. >Peter Brookesmith and John Powell made helpful comments about testing >claims that people have seen the same writing. Here's the gist of some >of it, with quotes mixed and matched from both gentlemen: >> Lacking the priceless MSS, John Powell suggests comparing 'original' >> and 'fresh' samples of alleged alien writing from each claimant (a >> vertical test) and then comparing these writings claimant v. claimant >> (an horizontal test). >> > We compare the two samples (the fresh one from the claimant and the >> > original one from the claimant) and statistically on a character by >> > character basis we'd expect equal or better than 80% similarity to >> > advance that example further in our dataset. =========================================================================== _____------>SNIP %<-------------------------------------------------------- I hope that my sharing of this helps somehow. Poor Greg has been keeping my name out of this discussion out of propriety and respect, I'm grateful to him for that. That, and many other qualities that he consistently exhibits in all of his posts are [part] of the reason for my great fondness for him. And [the] reason that I'm sharing this personal experience. It's my way of standing next to a friend in support, and hopefully adding something of value to the info pool. There are several experiencers on this list, I'm curious if anyone else has had a similar experience? With either symbols being shown to them or samples of writing being displayed. I'm curious (and I'm sure others are too) about how common or uncommon this particular feature may be. We can do a little "in house" survey and independently/privately submit samples to EBK (neutral third party) and get his (unbiased) opinion as to similarity! He can then post his findings to the list . (But only if it's O-K with the Big Kahuna Himself! <G>) It'd be an interesting little study. Maybe not significant, but interesting nonetheless. ***************************Preceeding is quoted*********************** Well, you can add me to that list of people who would like to help. I can say that I have done this and that, remember this and that, and so on. I can also say that I haven't had trouble remembering about my experiences. I do tend to forget, to make errors in memories, etc just about the same as anyone else at my age would experience in remembering certain details of events from thirty or more years ago. Nevertheless... John Velez, I have to really say how brave you are to bare your self to the public as you have here in this group of select intellects. I would not dare to infer that you responded with anything less than the candid honesty of your heart and life in your answer here. BRAVO! What seems to be missed here is that we 'experiencers', 'abductees' or whatever label fits... are only mundane people who have had something go bump in our lives. It isn't up to us to do anything more than to live with the facts, to try to describe what we experienced in our own words, and to go on about our lives. For us, life must go on, troubled or not. For those who are only seekers of Truth in any form, there are eternal lists of questions about which I care none. I have my own things to do, my own life to live and I do. In
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Eyewitness Testimony From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:08:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:00:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony > From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Eyewitness Testimony > >> Incident at Exeter, New Hampshire * > -------------- > JC: John, > I understood where you were coming from. I just couldn't resist. :-) > No apologies are necessary from either of us. Ahh, okay, I get it <grin>. > It is simply my way of reminding readers out there that it is cases > such as "Exeter," which defy all logical, rational explanation and > which are the very reason this mail list, others like it, and the > discussions ensuing therein exist. Bingo. > When one considers the accurate history of the subject and what > legitimate scientists like J. Allen Hynek and James McDonald > discovered along the way, the importance of investigations being > conducted regarding abduction claimants and animal mutilations is not > to be underestimated. Personally, I don't think it has been established that so-called alien abductions or mutilations are related to classic ufology, nor do I think we should assume they are related at this point. We might get a lot farther if we tentatively, for research purposes, assummed they _weren't_ related to ufology. In any case, each are serious events that need work. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:10:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:57:09 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > This is all a big plus. Anything that makes abduction research more > objective has to be welcome. > A couple of thoughts on it: > We're treading on a very tricky question here -- the nature and > functioning of memory. This isn't something the scientific world > exactly agrees on. [...] I think the memory tests (comparing the fresh alleged handwriting sample to the original for consistency and comparing the recall accuracy using a known but foreign handwriting sample) might tell us a little about memory but not in a terribly scientific way. The real purpose is to be able to later separate from the dataset those people whose freshly sample does and doesn't clisely match their original sample, to separate from the dataset those people who tested well on reproducing a known foreign sample from those who didn't. Without knowing how these various separations of the data would fall out we really can't guess on their significance. > Once the experiment is carried out, we'd have to clarify what > constitutes similarity. How do we measure it? What constitutes 80% > similarity, as opposed to 60% or 20%? > There's a procedure for doing that, which I'd strongly urge be > adopted. There are professionals out there who, without knowing that it is alleged alien handwriting they are reviewing, have standards and procedures for doing this. > And it might be overkill to test whether people can remember Arabic or > Chinese. I don't think Peter had in mind testing for each symbology. I'd suggest comparing the original samples to the known foreign symbology and picking one foreign symbology to use. Have you asked Hopkins about doing such a study? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:22:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:55:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs To add my two-cents: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Jan .. you wrote: >Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:17:56 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > >........ >1. LARGE NUMBER OF REPORTS: > .......... >The USAF data was bias because many >of the reports were from official sources around military and official >installations which were forced to report ufos by regulation while public >reports were voluntary. If the same analysis were done using clipping >service reports, what patterns would appear? (I think from the beginning >the Air Force realized that they might be sitting on a volcano...... ....... JC: Jan, I apologize for jumping ahead, yet, even in that biased military data were tantalizing tidbits. We can peer a little into that volcano a few years "down the road" by examining an excerpt from J. Allen Hynek's 1972 book (Hynek, J. Allen: The UFO Experience, Chicago: Henry Regnery Co., 1972 ). Located in appendix 4, in a letter he wrote to his boss, is an example Hynek used to inform Colonel Sleeper of things he felt were "wrong" with Project Blue Book, the main source of the Air Force's espoused data regarding UFOs. (and Hynek had a "shopping list's" worth!) The following case mentioned by Hynek occurred in 1965, as detailed in Oberg/Cooper.5. A good portion of Hynek's "shopping list" is detailed therein as well. COMMENTS FROM J. ALLEN HYNEK: >[Extract from a >classified document of reported sighting of 5 May, 1965, contents >unclassified, classification refers to name, and location and >mission of vessel.] " . . . leading signal man reported what he >believed to be an aircraft. . . . When viewed through binoculars, >three objects were sighted in close proximity to each other; one >object was first magnitude, the other two were second magnitude. >Objects were traveling at extremely high speeds, moving toward >ship at undetermined altitude. At . . . . four moving targets >were detected on the . . . . air search radar at ranges up to >twenty two miles and held up to six minutes. When over the ship >the objects spread to circular formation directly overhead and >remained there for approximately three minutes. This maneuver was >observed both visually and by radar. The bright object which >hovered off the starboard quarter made the larger presentation on >the radar scope. The objects made several course changes during >the sighting, confirmed visually and by radar, and were *tracked >at speeds in excess of 3000 (three thousand) knots. * (J.C. >Asterisks are mine.) Challenges were made by IFF but not >answered. After the three minute hovering maneuver, the objects >moved in a southeasterly direction at an extremely high rate of >speed. Above evolution observed by CO, all bridge personnel and >numerous hands topside." > This report was summarily evaluated by Blue Book as >"Aircraft," and to the best of my knowledge was never further >investigated. By what stretch of the imagination can we say that >the sighting did not represent a "possible threat" to the United >States? Only because nothing happened. Do we ascribe such >incompetence to the officers of the ship, and to the CO, to have >such a report submitted unless all witnesses were truly puzzled? >Is it conceivable that these officers could not have recognized an >aircraft had it had the trajectory, the apparent speed, and the >maneuvers ascribable to aircraft? No mention is made in the >report of even the possibility that ordinary aircraft were being >observed. The very fact that IFF challenges went unanswered >should have been a spur to further investigation. This implies >enemy craft. But the report does not even suggest the possibility >that these were ordinary enemy aircraft. The classified document >in Blue Book files does not contain further technical data >concerning the sighting itself. Should not the director of Blue >Book have exhibited at least SOME curiosity about this sighting? >Yet when I brought it up on more than one occasion, it was >dismissed with boredom. . . . . . * It is hard for the public to >understand how a country whose military posture is so security >geared could dismiss a case like this out-of-hand unless the >military knew more than they were telling." JC: This came from the man who saw the actual data from the Air Force. But even he was not exposed to it all. He also writes: >Appendix 4, Section A, Paragraph 9 > >"It must be pointed out that neither of these cases were shown to >me by Blue Book personnel. I happened upon them by accident >during one of my visits as I scanned through material lying on a >desk, and not in the files; I am not permitted to peruse the files >themselves. I have access to the files only when I request a >specific case. But how can I request a specific case, to examine >its possible scientific merits, if I don't know of its existence?" JC: Mind you, he is the chief consultant. Although there were security items I am sure the Air Force did not want to give away, even to its #1 consultant, this informs us that he never saw some of the best cases that we can plainly see obviously existed. ............... JC: Jan, then you mentioned statistics: >3. USAF, MOD, DND, ETC., STATISTICS > > Just about everyone is impressed by statistic. In the CIA analysis of >the 1952 wave, they saw the AF claim of "only" 20% unexplained as >evidence that the AF was on the right track. The CIA thought however, >that the AF did not pay enough attention to possible patterns in the ufo >data. The small percent of unidentifieds is always a reason to reject >any further study. JC: And in Appendix 4, Section D, Paragraph 1 of his same book, Hynek also comments on AF statistics some twenty years later: >"The statistical methods employed by Blue Book are a travesty on >the branch of mathematics known as Statistics. A chapter in a >doctoral dissertation at Northwestern University, soon to be >published, deals specifically with this aspect, and I will later >quote from it (Herbert Strentz, "A Study of Some Air Force >Statistical Procedures in Recording and Reporting Data on UFO >Investigations," included in "A SURVEY OF PRESS COVERAGE OF UFOs, >1947-1967, a doctoral thesis at the Medill School of Journalism, >Northwestern University") and preface it with my own observations >which, incidentally, I have repeatedly brought to the attention of >the Blue Book staff but to no avail." JC: And furthermore states in the same section: >"There has been little dialogue between Blue Book and the outside >scientific world or between Blue Book and the various scientific >facilities within the Air Force itself." >"I know of very little scientific correspondence in the blue book >files; this is probably because scientists wish to correspond with >persons of like training. It would be pointless, for instance, to >query Blue Book on the scientific reasons for evaluating a given >case, say, as caused by a temperature inversion: Blue Book has >never availed itself of the meteorological know-how within the Air >Force itself to determine just how much of an inversion is >necessary to produce the effects reported by the witness, if at >all." JC: And again: >". . . . . many astronomical evaluations have been made by Blue >Book without consulting their scientific consultant (who is, after >all, an astronomer) which have brought ridicule in the press. The >midwest flap of reports of July 31-August 1, 1965 can be cited as >an example." JC: This message, from the official, civilian astronomical consultant to the Air Force for twenty years, should have been a major "beacon" informing scientists that something was dreadfully wrong with what the Air Force was telling us. Unfortunately, these revelations came "after" the Condon Study had passed its final verdict and Project Blue Book was terminated. And mainstream Science turned its back on the data that continued to pour in. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:03:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:58:04 -0500 Subject: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: MJ-12 and Area 51 > I really did lose track of some of my mail...and with it, something > from John Powell I strongly agree with. > John and I have had some angry exchanges. Not angry in a personal sense, and least not in the sense that I'm angry with you. We have some _very_ different perspectivs, but that's all. > But when he discusses Budd > Hopkins' work -- including Hopkins' collection of alleged samples of > alien writing, supposedly observed by experiencers -- he says: > > Why hasn't Hopkins (or whomever) had this symbology analyzed, why > > haven't 'they' had the physical markings analyzed, why haven't > > 'they' implemented electronic monitoring???? > > These are all things that 'we' can't do ourselves. I don't have > > access to the symbology or the people, I don't have access to the > > physical markings or the people... > > Perhaps in your next message you will have discussed these questions > > with Hopkins and have some answers and suggestions? > These are all excellent points, including the suggestion that I speak > to Budd about them. > It's absurd, for instance, that Budd doesn't know (and may not even > have records of) how many of the experiencers he works with have the > physical marks and scars he talks about so much. He likes to show > photos of these marks, but he hasn't done even an elementary job of > tallying them. Yes, its absolutely absurd. > I've already spoken to him about a lot of things. I seem to be his > friendly gadfly these days. One thing I've made a great point of are > the writing samples. Originally he showed me 14, mounted under plastic > in a scrapbook. His reason, he said, for not publishing them was to > not contaminate the evidence. He thought it was even better if their > existence wasn't known about. That way, anyone new who came forward > with writing would be doing it spontaneously. At some early point in this type of research I can accept and understand why someone would keep this type of evidence secret an/or private. But we're _way_ past that early point now. However, there's _NO_ reason why Hopkins has to make that evidence _public_. For purposes of a quality analysis only the folks directly involved in the project need to have access. Given that we want strict controls only _some_ of those people would have access to _some_ of the data and _nobody_ would have access to all of the data. Once complete I assume Hopkins would want to publish the results at which time only _representative_ samples of the original evidence would necessarily have to made public. > Now, however, he has opened up enough to tell me he has 35 samples of > the same writing! That exasperated me no end, and I told him quite > firmly that he had to publish them. Rather sheepishly, I thought, he > told me that he was going to make them public...but not, in my > opinion, in at all the right way. What, exactly, he's going to do is a > personal matter, and I don't feel that I can go into it. I disagree, > and I'm going to tell him so. I'm also embarrassed not to be able to > give the details of Budd's plan here. But one thing I've learned while > working in responsible sections of the media (and yes, John, even you > and I could probably agree that those exist) is that journalists need > to keep some things they hear from their sources private, and this, > I'm afraid, is one of them. For now, anyway. Sure, they exist <grin>, and I'm probably better off not knowing what he plans because it'll just irritate me... > He has > boxes of letters he's never opened, which -- as I verified by opening > a great deal of them -- include plea after plea for help from people > who believe they might be having abduction experiences. Some of these > letters would wring most of our hearts, regardless of our opinons of > what might actually be happening to these people. Its not an acceptable excuse that's he's overworked or in financial trouble to leave these letters unopenned. Can't he find folks to help? > But for the past couple of months, Budd hasn't even had time to read > them, let alone act on them. So what do you think the people that passionately write him are thinking about this non-action??? I think Hopkins has completely lost sight of the big picture. He thinks these are _his_ peiple to care for, _his_ data, etc. He's gotten himself in a hole that he can't get himself out of by himself but he won't let go enough to accept outside help. > What the whole picture shows, though, is a decent person, honorable > and intelligent, taking on a burden that, when he started, hardly > anybody else was willing to take. That's a burden both of > investigation and emotional support. Now there's no question that the > investigative work needs to be carried on more scientifically. But I > wouldn't minimize Budd's value as a pioneer. Investigation and emotional support should be as unrelated as possible, despite them occurring in your single sentence above and in Hopkins singular work. It isn't too accurate to call Hopkins a pioneer until we know what he is a pioneer of...<grin> We have to remember that his work and this alleged phenomenon has been going on for a few decades with essentially no credible _direct_ research (no electronic monitoring, no handwriting analysis, no physical marks analysis). He's been riding the upward curve for a long time but he needs to realize that sooner rather than later he, the phenomenon and his work, are going to start the downhill sloop. He cannot continue to crank out one abduction story after another, one abductee after another, in a research and evidence vacuum and expect to keep the attention of even the most diehard Believer. He's going to have to let others do the research (put up) or the public will focus their attention elsewhere (or shut up). Somebody who can get his attention has to deliver a wake-up call. > And a personal note to John Powell...I suspect, when the shouting dies > down, that we agree on more than it looks like we do. Further, I'd > guess that the things we agree on are far more important, in the > overall research picture, than what we don't agree about. I think that's likely true also. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:15:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:00:58 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: alien writing > (Parenthetically, I don't think there's any problem with alleged > writing that surfaces after hypnosis. There;s at least one paper in > the psychological literature documenting the use of hypnosis in police > investigations. Evidence has been uncovered through hypnosis, > corroborated, and used to get convictions. Obviously, the > corroboration is key. A decent handwriting analysis database would provide the ability to separate out the handwriting samples derived from hypnosis and those not derived that way. The resulting comparison might be interesting, especially when compared with the individual's scores regarding the fresh versus original comparison and the short-term recall of known foreign symbology comparison. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:44:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:03:03 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing > To: updates@globalserve.net > It is of paramount > importance to him to keep this material out of the general media and > as 'pure' as he can keep it. Publication would end it's usefulness as > a diagnostic tool. It's one of the very few things remaining that he > knows folks didn't see in a book or on 'Strange Universe' or > 'Encounters.' I don't know why you and apparently other folks have this mistaken notion that a properly strict analysis of the data would automagically require that this or other allegedly alien symbology be made public or published. The notion is completely wrong. At most, some of the people involved in the project would see some of the data (a _small_ amount), and that's all. Even with that the people involved have no reason to know, and in fact they would not know, if what they were seeing were fabricated controls samples, real samples, or Hopkins 'special' samples. Hopkins could publish what he wants, and not publish what he doesn't want. You and I already had this discussion in private e-mail regarding a possible analysis of alleged physical markings. There are very good reasons quite apart from privacy for very strictly limiting the knowledge of and exposure to data in a proper study. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:30:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:59:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > Call me radical, if you like, but the greatest mystery to me is why > there <is> any UFO mystery. UFOs have been regularly reported -- and > talked about, and talked about, and talked about -- for nearly 50 > years. You'd think that by now we'd have arrived at some consensus. > The problem doesn't seem all that difficult. Is anything flying around > up there? Why can't science answer it? More like 5,000 years. I think its an open question as to whether science _can_ (and _how_ it can) answer the question, which I think is really the point of Jan's philosophy of science series of discussions. There are examples of science trying in earnest and falling to explain the problem and there are plenty of examples of science being made to dance to someone else's tune and failing to answer the questions. Personally, I don't think pure science has had an unencumbered chance to try to study UFOs so the jury's out. > If we think there clearly are unknown craft > flying through our skies -- and that these craft have been seen by > tens of thousands of people -- what's our elegant, parsimonious > explanation for why the world at large doesn't acknowledge that? Is > there a coverup? > That's not a philosophically satisfying explanation at all. It > introduces an extraneous element -- a whole layer of government > involvement -- and raises extra questions of its own. Why is there a > coverup? And why does the coverup work? I don't know if we should ignore the gov't involvement/coverup angle as it relates to the philosophy of science (as that relates to the scientific study of UFOs) or not. First, let's dispense with the "tens of thousands of people" issue because there's no such thing. Just about everybody makes this mistake from time to time, I'm sure I've done it once or twice too, even Keel made this mistake in one of his recent books, but we have to always separate out of the total data population that which is really important versus raw uninvestigated data. There are tens and tens of thousands of UFO sightings reported over the last 50 or so years and that is our raw uninvestigated data population. That is also the most useless number in all of ufology. Of the uninvestigated total we know that easily from 80% (being very generous) to 95% are IFOs (and some, a small percentage) are hoaxes. We know statistically that 80% to 95% will be retired as IFOs. IFOs may be of interest to ifology and the social sciences but they shouldn't concern us in this discussion. The UFOs, the ones that are _U_FO _after_ having been investigated, are the _only_ initial dataset we are concerned with here. This is the dataset that we need to explain, need to understand, need to have science take an unencumbered look at, etc. If we average 10,000 sightings worldwide per year that leaves from 250,000 (being extremely generous) to 5,000 total sightings. Most of the folks who have been doing for decades prefer 90% to 95% which would give us a nice and easily to handle dataset. As regards gov't involvement/coverup I admit to being completely wishy-washy on that. Obviously, when we were dealing with the useless pre-investigation sighting total, then one can instantly surmise that the gov't had to have seen a few (or more <grin>) on missle tracking radar or space-based tracking over the past few decades. But when we're dealing with the real investigated number of unknowns then that surmising becomes illogical and impossible. After all, the misidentified bird, or lenticular cloud, or mylar ballon, or Venus _DON'T_ lend themselves to being picked up on missle-tracking radar or space-based tracking. Taking the (assumptive) 5,000 investigated unknowns as a baseline worldwide for 50 years we can probably drop that to half (2,500) for alleged objects that could be picked up on our tracking and we could probably drop that another 50% (1,250) for objects reported during the latter period when we had such tracking capabilities. Of that lower total how many are UFOs to us and IFOs to the folks who build and test next-generation aircraft? I think a truly scientific study of UFOs, completely unencumbered by politics, has to ignore the gov't involvement/coverup angle to be unbiased and objective. Alternatively, perhaps the gov't would assist that scientific effort and provide a log of every single flight of every single classified R&D project plus a log of all post-production classified flights? Not gonna happen you say? And that's why it has to be ignored for an unbiased study. > From a believer's point of view, what could that haze be? My theory > is that it's denial. Or maybe I shouldn't put it so aggressively. The > presence of mysterious flying craft (very likely from other planets) > is presumed to be extraordinary. It's also presumed to be unlikely. So > when somebody says they saw one, you don't quite know what to think. I'm not sure how this relates to a discussion on the philosophy of science as it relates to a scientific study of UFOs? I don't think the likliness or unlikliness is particulary relevant to the process of science. It was considered impossible or at best extraordinarily unlikely that any prehistoric creature would survive to present day. Yet, we have such creatures, completely identical to their prehistoric relatives, alive and well today - and we _still_ properly consider it unlikely simply because we only have a few such specimens. > A classic example is Donald Menzel's "explanation" of the famous > New Guinea case. It was apparent then and its very apparent today that Menzel relied on science only rarely when trying to explain (away) UFO sightings. It wasn't known then and it is known now that Menzel worked for the CIA at the time and was almost certainly doing what he did to assist the goals expressed by the Robertson Panel. > The place to find this mental haze at its most pronounced is, I think, > in the SETI literature. Here you have what I believe is the only > (semi-) organized group of scientists who think or write much about > aliens. And they've reached a definite consensus. There are alien > races all over the galaxy, possibly millions of them, some a billion > years more advanced than we are. But none of them can visit each > other, because interstellar travel just isn't possible. > I just smile when I read that stuff. Interstellar travel on any > regular basis would be hard to imagine for us, right now -- there's no > doubt about that. But for beings a billion years ahead of us? Who > could possibly say? It's the height of antrhopomorphic arrogance to > imagine we can say anything at all about beings a billion years ahead > of us. So I'm not going to say they <do> travel between the stars. I > have no idea. But neither does Frank Drake -- the leader of the SETI > forces -- have any business thinking he knows, either. Paraphrasing Dennis from an article he wrote years ago: You can't use one mystery to explain another. Scientists work with the physics that they knnow, not the physics they don't know or the physics they wish they knew. The physics that we know today tells us that FTL travel is impossible. Impossible in the past, impossible now, and impossible in the future as well. This type of strict scientific conservatism is part of the scientific process. It doesn't mean that we _know_ FTL will be impossible forever, it just means that based on just what we know today its impossible. We don't have to make assumptions about what the core UFOs are, or why they are, or how they got where they were when they were (allegedly) observed. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1996 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: 'Backlash' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:09:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:02:02 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' > From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' > >That's simply wrong. Standard equipment operating in a standard > >environment is and can be expected to _consistently_ operate in a > >standard manner. If it doesn't, and if it consistently doesn't, then > >we've (minimally) shown that _something_ objectively physical has > >(repeatedly) occurred. > >Right now we have no evidence that anything is happening and its a > >huge leap to expect that a single simple series of experiments will > >take us from nothing at all to something extremely specific. If all > >we got from a series of simple experiments was the small step from > >nothing to something that would still be the biggest step achieved to > >date in abduction research. > >In other words, if we can place some electronic equipment, that we've > >previously bench tested and found to consistently work correctly and > >previously field tested and found to consistently work correctly, in > >an abductee's home and that same equipment then consistently (at > >regular intervals, etc.) fails to work correctly we _KNOW_ something > >is going on. (We also would know where, when and for how long. > >Depending on the type of eqiupment we might even get a clue as to how > >it stopped working correctly.) > This is something I have argued, screamed, yelled, cajoled, ridiculed, > and fought about for a long time. In your eloquence, you have made > the point far better than I ever could. > The fact that electronic monitoring devices fail IS an example of > "evidence." Not all evidence is based on the senses of sight, sound > smell, taste, or touch. In fact, the kind of statistical, anylitical, > reproducable evidence that could be obtained from electronic > monitoring is more valuable than all the current evidence we currently > have. Absolutely _FAR_ more valuable. > If we had a subject, who honestly believes he/she has been the object > of abduction by an alien being, under electronic monitoring we would > could begin to process of determination for what was the experience > that caused this belief. Electronic monitoring could give us an enormous variety of hints. Even if, as some naysayers believe, the aliens can zap out our equipment they (presumably) can't control 'nature' uniformly and simultaneously. By that I mean (just as an example) if we were independently monitoring for temperature and humidity (as examples) we would likely detect brief changes just prior to a blackout of the equipment. If we could do even something as seemingly minor as that consistently we'd have very significant _direct_ evidence. > The protocals for such an expermient would have to be worked out. It > would almost have to involve more than simple location monitoring. A > complete, independantly powered, electronic monitoring system would > have to be established and placed on the subjects residence, or > whatever locations are the subjects belief that abduction occur. Multi-location monitoring could get expensive but we can dream about it <grin>. A high-capacity UPS could easily power a half dozen pieces of gear for over an hour, cutting the power wouldn't be a issue. An electrical dampening field of some kind (microwave, magnetic) would have to be used to zap the gear attached to the UPS. Ignoring for the time being that a field powerful enough to zap the gear would fry the contents of the room, includng the alleged abductee, we do know that such fields don't materialize instantly, they propogate and would have slightly different affects on different equipment at slightly different times during the propogation - this alone could be recorded. In other words, the gear would not all go off-line at the same time and knowing how each piece of gear responds to dampening fields we could reconstruct the source location of the dampening field. > At the least, assuming that the subject is abducted from sleep and > from their residence, would be an internal house system that indicated > where the subject was in the residence; a system to determine the > vital signs of the subject, including but not limited to brain > activity; video and audio monitors of the residence; ambient air > readings; and a systematic method of turning the system on or off > without the subjects knowledge. All doable with off-the-shelf, relatively inexpensive technology. > This would, of course, constitute the gravest possible invasion of the > life of the subject. Keeping in mind that the research can not help > but influnce the observation, such a study would do more to ligitmize > abduction research than the current state of hypno-therapists have. This is definitely an invasion of the individual's privacy, but there's no way around that. For obvious reasons we would want a way to allow the individual to turn on/off the gear (some of the gear) at certain times. If somebody could demonstrate a consistency of something, _anything_, physically happenning tis would become the hottest science research project on the planet. > What suprises me is the complete lack of initiative shown by current > "leaders" to produce just this kind of evidence. When I'm in a particularly generous mood I'm completely surprised by that also <grin>. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])