UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Intelligence Analysis? Food for thought From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:18:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 12:53:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Intelligence Analysis? Food for thought Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Intelligence Analysis? Food for thought Date: Sat, 28 Dec 96 10:21:11 -0600 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure ~Pat~ Yah, but it doesn't taste as good. D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Murphy's Mexico Report From: Beyond Boundaries <jmurphy@onramp.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:41:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 12:54:05 -0500 Subject: Murphy's Mexico Report Just wanted to let you know that an informal report has just been posted on our webpage concerning the Beyond Boundaries recent Mexico expedition with TV show Strange Universe: http://rampages.onramp.net/~jmurphy then push Research button, next Mexico Update, and scroll down to One Person's Report BEYOND BOUNDARIES - Research and Expeditions Worldwide **************************************************************************** ************************************ New Website ( check it every few days for updates ) - http://rampages.onramp.net/~jmurphy **************************************************************************** ************************************ PO BOX 250 RAINBOW TX 76077
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Project 1947 - 'Secret' Rand UFO Document From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 96 13:41:04 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 12:52:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - 'Secret' Rand UFO Document >Re: The RAND Document Interesting. Here's something even more interesting... unknown-16-199.rand.org - - [31/Dec/1996:12:57:44 -0600] "GET /~pparri/NIB11.JPG HTTP/1.0" 200 100005 (From server log) This translates to: http://www.rand.org Check it out! ;) ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:40:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 12:57:39 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing John Powell writes, about Budd Hopkins' samples of supposed alien writing: > I'd suggest > comparing the original samples to the known foreign symbology and > picking one foreign symbology to use. > Have you asked Hopkins about doing such a study? First he has to decide how he's publishing the data. But I'll certainly suggest that he include an objective study, in whatever form of publication he chooses. It's a good idea. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:55:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 12:58:30 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing Again on Budd Hopkins' samples of supposed alien writing, John Powell writes: > However, there's _NO_ reason why Hopkins has to make that evidence > _public_. For purposes of a quality analysis only the folks directly > involved in the project need to have access. Given that we want strict > controls only _some_ of those people would have access to _some_ of the > data and _nobody_ would have access to all of the data. Once complete I > assume Hopkins would want to publish the results at which time only > _representative_ samples of the original evidence would necessarily have > to made public. Well, from the 14 samples I've seen, I'd say this....once one of them has been made public, they all have. They're that similar. And once even a short sample of this writing -- or whatever it is -- gets published, anyone could imitate it. It's...I don't know...idiosyncratic. Easy to recognize. So anyone new who came forth and said they'd seen it could, conceivably, have seen the published samples. Or have I misunderstood what you're saying, John? On Budd's work in general, I wrote: > > He has > > boxes of letters he's never opened, which -- as I verified by opening > > a great deal of them -- include plea after plea for help from people > > who believe they might be having abduction experiences. Some of these > > letters would wring most of our hearts, regardless of our opinons of > > what might actually be happening to these people. John replies: > Its not an acceptable excuse that's he's overworked or in financial > trouble to leave these letters unopenned. Can't he find folks to help? Until very recently he had a part-time assistant. But the assistant moved away from NY, and Budd hasn't yet replaced him. He's had to spend a lot of time on promotion for "Witnessed." Nor -- not that I want to reopoen an old dispute, here -- does he get paid for this work. Besides, he's talked to more than 600 experiencers, knows there are many more people who feel they might have had the experience, and understands, with a kind of resignation, that he can only make a dent in the number. That said, I think he needs to address these letters. He's not all <that> far behind. He just gets a lot of them. > > But for the past couple of months, Budd hasn't even had time to read > > them, let alone act on them. > So what do you think the people that passionately write him are thinking > about this non-action??? I can make an educated guess about that, both from what the writers say in their letters, and from my conversation with one of them. They think he's too busy to respond to them, and, rightly or wrongly, that's what they expected. The guy I contacted -- just to get a taste of the experience, and in hopes of being able to follow an abduction case from an initial contact which I'd know everything about because I made it -- was shocked even to hear from someone representing Budd. He said he thought he was dreaming. He hadn't seriously expected a response. This has nothing to do with Budd's responsibility. As far as I know, he eventually answers everyone who contacts him. One more point on the writing. I've got to ask Budd if he's every had writing samples that aren't like the ones he showed me. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Handling the News Media From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:34:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 12:56:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Handling the News Media Michael J. Woods makes sense. And Michael...thanks, in the middle of media-bashing of various kinds, for giving the media's point of view. More than that, for giving an inside look at how the media work. I've been on both sides of the fence, myself. I've been the media, and (often at the same time) been interviewed by the media. I've been interviewed in various capacities by newspapers, magazines, radio and television. Sometimes my experience has been bad. I well remember being quoted in the NY Times, when I was working as a classical music critic in New York. The quote was at best partially accurate, and clearly furthered the reporter's own agenda. What was worse was that the reporter was a colleague...a Times music critic I was friendly with, who was writing a reportorial story on something I'd been involved with. When I complained, he told me this: "I couldn't say this myself in my story, so I needed you to say it." Bad experience. I've also had annoying experiences on TV. If a TV reporter comes to interview me on some pop music topic, as happened repeatedly when I worked at Entertainment Weekly, there might be three aspects to anything I'd say: gossip, serious musical or cultural analysis, and (sigh) the usual rock critics' wiseass remarks about groups like New Kids on the Block, who may be newsworthy enough for TV, but aren't exactly artistic titans. I'd often find that a ten-minute interview would indeed be reduced on air to a single soundbite. And the soundbite was more likely to be gossip or wiseass, especially if I'd gotten off some really good lines. But you know what? There were more times when anything I said was handled responsibly. I've also noticed occasions when things I'd said were reflected in the tone of the reporting, even if they weren't quoted. That made me feel I'd been seriously listened to. Besides, if you don't want a quick, sassy soundbite to be your introduction to the masses who watch TV, the answer is easy: Don't provide one. You can control what TV uses, simply by only giving them what you want them to use. That might take practice, especially if you're asked provocative questions. But nobody forces anyone to say something dumb or shallow to a reporter. Finally, about reporters trapping people into making injudicious remarks...herer I disagree with Woods. It might well happen. Recently Alexander Cockburn, a well-known leftwing political columnist, wrote some fascinating stuff about what he called "doorknob questions" (or something like that. These would be asked in sensitive political interviews. The trick, he said, is to conduct a formal on-the-record interview. Then say your goodbyes, and just as you're leaving, turn around at the door and ask one last, pointed question. Your hope is that the mayor or governor or senator or president or presidential candidate will be caught off guard, and give a more honest answer than usual, even forgetting to put it off the record. How common this is, though, I don't know. And that technique would only be used in adversarial situations, where the reporter feels the interview subject is probably hiding something. More often, the difficulty arises like this. When you're interviewed, the exact temporal boundaries of the interview aren't totally clear. There's a certain amount of chit=chat at the start. Then, at the end, the reporter probably says something like "Well, I think I have enough now," or else you, the interview subject, say "I'm sorry, I really don't have more time to talk." At which point the reporter puts away his or her notebook, or, more likely, turns off his or her tape recorder. But obviously that's not the complete end; the reporter doesn't just walk out. There's going to be more chit-chat. "Thanks a lot, I enjoyed meeting you"...courtesies of that sort. And there also might be a few more exchanges on whatever the interview had been about...and that's when you might get in trouble. You think you're not being interviewed any more, but you're still talking to a reporter. Suppose you're a Roswell investigator, and you've just had a serious hour-long interview about the Roswell evidence. Now you're finished, and the reporter packs up her tape recorder and remarks, conversationally: "You know, I've heard there are other people studying Roswell, too." You, off your guard, feeling you like this reporter, say, with complete innocent honesty: "Oh, yeah, you might have seen XYZ's book, but he's really an asshole." Mistake! You're still on the record! Don't be surprised to open the newspaper, and find yourself quoted. Most likely this wasn't a trick. The reporter wasn't trying to get you to say that. But you fed it to her on a silver platter, and now it's your own fault if you get quoted. If the reporter is REALLY your friend, he might at that point give you an out: "You sure you want that on the record?" You then can heave a sigh of relief, and say "Oops! No, guess not. Thanks!" But the reporter is under no obligation to ask you. It's your own fault you made the remark. Which brings me to my final point. If you're worried about what might appear in print, feel free to state that some things you say are "not for attribution" or "off the record." "Not for attribution" (as I've remarked here before) means that they can be quoted, but not with your name attached. "Off the record" means you don't want them quoted at all. You're safest putting something off the record before you say it. When you do that, a reporter would be violating every ethical canon in the book if she quoted you. But you can usually get away with putting something off the record immediately after you say it; most honest reporters will respect that. One function of 'off the record' and 'not for attribution' remarks is that the conversation can range more widely. You may find a reporter genuinely curious about things you don't want to be quoted about, and you may feel you want to enlighten him. Just put the remarks off the record, and you'll almost certainly be safe. Greg Sandow (Greg Sandow has written about music for the Village Voice, the Los Angeles-Herald Examiner, and Entertainment Weekly, where he was music critic, senior music editor, and critic-at-large. He has also written freelance pieces for many publications. Most of his writing has been criticism, but he has also reported stories, some of them very sensitive. Mistaken for an authority on various musical phenomena, he has appeared numerous times on radio and TV, and has been interviewed by the press.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Hale-Bopp update From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 15:05:50 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 12:55:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Hale-Bopp update Apology to MW #71 (For December 31, 1996)=20 Consider Hale-Bopp -- the space and time it has seen. Humankind=92s history, the shortest of dreams. Its regular orbit sees Earth in short snapshots -- Ironic that now it is hampered by science jocks. . . What a story it tells in three thousand year increments! What a treasure it holds, if filled with strange implements. All the truths it could answer; all our heavens would fall; All priorities changing ; All the mighty -- could crawl. Here =96 the Earth was a forested dream There =96 the Earth was embittered, and mean. Here =96 the Earth was so lushly tropical There =96 volcanoes spoke philosophical Here =96 the ice descended from poles There =96 a web infested with trolls Here =96 a jewel. A tropical rain forest . . . There =96 not fit for rats, or so sang the chorus. And here _we_ all sit, complacent and pleased The top of our heap, we _think_ off our knees. With little respect for the least of our kindred, Our future is bleak, respectless, and hindered. The point is it=92s changing =96 some words getting through. Like Newt=92s been all hull breached for stealing from you! But that=92s on this snapshot, this circuit, _these_ ages Hale-Bopp is a light house that may blaze out to wake us. Lehmberg@snowhill.com What could we visit on a trip into _this_ port, marked with such a light house?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:01:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 12:59:20 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing John Powell writes: > A decent handwriting analysis database would provide the ability to > separate out the handwriting samples derived from hypnosis and those not > derived that way. The resulting comparison might be interesting, > especially when compared with the individual's scores regarding the > fresh versus original comparison and the short-term recall of known > foreign symbology comparison. Good thought. I agree. Something else just crossed my mind. Suppose someone scores badly on recalling foreign symbols, but draws (even freshly) the same kind of supposed alien writing as everyone else. Do you conclude that they're possibly faking the sample, because they haven't demonstrated any ability to recall symbols of that kind? Or do you conclude that you're dealing with different kinds of memory? Psychologists have no consensus on this, but many believe that data encountered in traumatic situations (or at least strongly emotional ones) will be remembered far more strongly than data encountered casually. John Velez's post on his memory of seeing the writing suggests that, if these experiences are truly real, people might have the symbols burned in their memory in a way that couldn't possibly happen in an earthbound experiment. There's also the notion of state-dependent memory, as cited by Stewat Appelle in his examination of the abduction evidence in the Journal of UFO Studies. If abductions occur in an altered state of consciousness, similar to hypnosis, things that happen during them might be more readily remembered under hypnosis. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:14:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 13:00:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs In a post on philosophy of science, I'd taken issue with scientists who think aliens can't travel here, citing limitations taught by our own scientific concepts. Some of these same scientists talk about civilizations a billion years more advanced than we are. It seemed absurd, to me, that they should dictate what beings more advanced than us can do. On that subject, John Powell writes: > Paraphrasing Dennis from an article he wrote years ago: You can't use > one mystery to explain another. Scientists work with the physics that > they knnow, not the physics they don't know or the physics they wish > they knew. The physics that we know today tells us that FTL travel is > impossible. Impossible in the past, impossible now, and impossible in > the future as well. This type of strict scientific conservatism is part > of the scientific process. It doesn't mean that we _know_ FTL will be > impossible forever, it just means that based on just what we know today > its impossible. > We don't have to make assumptions about what the core UFOs are, or why > they are, or how they got where they were when they were > (allegedly) observed. I agree completely. But tell this to the SETI scientists, who really do make assumptions. They assume that UFO reports must all be explainable in conventional terms, because they've proved, they think, that aliens can't travel here. I'm not trying to make new assumptions of my own. I'm only trying to undo some that have already been made. About using the physics we already know...as I found out once when I exchanged e-mail with physicst Paul Davies on this subject, the notion of sticking with science can be slippery. For instance: suppose we want to send a probe to a nearby star. Obviously, we'd get it there a lot faster if it traveled faster than light. Should we plan to launch it at more than lightspeed? Bad idea! In the physics we now understand, that's considered impossible, so we wouldn't have a clue how to do it. Maybe someday we'll learn a new kind of physics that will show us how to travel faster than light, but if we wait for that, our probe will never get launched. We'd better send it out using the science and technology we actually have. But now suppose an apparent alien ship is sighted. Do we say "Peckersnipe! Can't be! Aliens can't travel here, because they can't go faster than light"? That, in my view, would be an inappropriate use of our physics. Once we postulate aliens, we have to allow the possibility that they know things we don't. Besides, just in general, we need to keep in mind the possibility that our science might be wrong. Otherwise, we'll never make progress. (Insert long essay on the risk, wonder, and difficulty of changing major scientific paradigms. I'm sure we all know what's at stake...how you'd better be damn sure your revision of basic concepts is justified, but your opponents had better be damn sure they don't reject your data just because they like the old theories better.) Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 UFOs and CounterIntelligence From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 21:12:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 13:01:02 -0500 Subject: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:30:44 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > References: <2.2.32.19961230154433.0073d5c8@mail.globalserve.net> > > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs < snipped > > > A classic example is Donald Menzel's "explanation" of the famous > > New Guinea case. > It was apparent then and its very apparent today that Menzel relied on > science only rarely when trying to explain (away) UFO sightings. It > wasn't known then and it is known now that Menzel worked for the CIA at > the time and was almost certainly doing what he did to assist the goals > expressed by the Robertson Panel. > > The place to find this mental haze at its most pronounced is, I think, > > in the SETI literature. Here you have what I believe is the only > > (semi-) organized group of scientists who think or write much about > > aliens. And they've reached a definite consensus. There are alien > > races all over the galaxy, possibly millions of them, some a billion > > years more advanced than we are. But none of them can visit each > > other, because interstellar travel just isn't possible. > > I just smile when I read that stuff. Interstellar travel on any > > regular basis would be hard to imagine for us, right now -- there's no > > doubt about that. But for beings a billion years ahead of us? Who > > could possibly say? It's the height of antrhopomorphic arrogance to > > imagine we can say anything at all about beings a billion years ahead > > of us. So I'm not going to say they <do> travel between the stars. I > > have no idea. But neither does Frank Drake -- the leader of the SETI > > forces -- have any business thinking he knows, either. Some of the anomalous statements and behaviour of the scientists performing SETI research made me wonder if there was another instance of Menzelian science being performed. If biographical research of the sort which Stanton Friedman performed so rewardingly with Menzel interests you, take a look at background of Frank Drake. Why should anyone think that the subtrefuge performed by Menzel ended with his retiring from the ufo field and or his death? Is it rational or logical to assume that the intelligence community's activities in this field were staffed by that one person and the operation and functions he performed stopped when he retired? There is no basis for this assumption based on the Robertson/Durant report. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Terminology From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:37:17 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 12:54:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Terminology >From: SGBConsult@aol.com <Steve Bassett> >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:22:40 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Terminology >In a message dated 96-12-30 21:51:58 EST, Greg Sandow wrote: >> >Dunno about "alleged," though. That also sounds negative to me. The more >> >I think about this terminology business, the more I'm inclined to go >> >with "experiencer." It only says that someone has had this experience. >> >We can use the term with respect, while reserving judgement on exactly >> >what the nature of the experience is. >Michael Malone replied: >> Perhaps the problem is with the term abductee. What we need is a new term >> that is defined as "one who honestly believes they have been abducted by >> sentient non-human beings and believe that these beings are either >> extra-solar, or extra-terrestrial in origin." >> I've struggled to make the "definition" as netural as possible, without >> being obscure. Can we even agree on a definition? >_________________ >Terminology has the power to self-generate epistemology. >As historical evidence prior to the modern era (1947-1996) is gathered, the >spectrum of encounter experiences continues to broaden. In this time period >three terms have been most prevalent: contactee, abductee, and experiencer. >"Contactee" as a basis for consensus was weakened by its use during the >"space brother" period and with other later extreme fringe reportage. Contactee is too loaded. >"Abductee" has a substantive lineage which gained strength after the Hill >case and further developed with the work of Budd Hopkins and other early >investigators. Abductee is too loaded. >"Experiencer" is a much more recent nomenclature which emerged from >support groups with impetus from group members dissatisfied with >"Abductee". It has been particularly embraced by Dr. John Mack's Program >for Extraordinary Experience Research, one of the most prominent research >and support organizations in the field. Experiencer might touch more closely on the emotional aspect of the situation, but does little to denote the scientific attempt by a minority of people to produce evidence that the situation does/does not exist. By and far, that is a slim minority, and while those of us in that minority will never dictate what is accepted in "mainstream" ufology, we would like to be able to converse with words that aren't loaded, either emotionally or definitativly, so that we can share what we know without worrying about being politically correct in our speech. It is impossible to go to a meeting of UFO groupies and talk about alleged alien abduction or self-claimed abductees, unless you've got a death wish. You will be labled as uncaring, insensitive, and lacking understanding. Yet there is still no true evidence that these "experiences" exist. The best line offered is, "I know what happened to me." Perhaps in my latest forced absense from the net the suspected alien implants (Is that politically correct?) have been proven to be true evidence of alien life. If so, I haven't heard about it. >Not uncharacteristically, these terms have created lines of debate. This >debate is exacerbated by the personal and emotional involvement of the >participants in much of the developing evidence. To true. To true. Yet to the "experiencer" the emotional involvement is the pivotal point of the issue. I often wonder if some of the "big names" in this feild remember that. I am deeply troubled that there may be researchers who are abusing their relationship with people who honestly believe they have been abducted. >Not enough is known about this phenomenon to rely upon narrow nomenclature, >however comforting. Motivations are ascribed to entities not yet >conclusively proved to exist, for conduct as yet not understood, within >contexts completely outside consensus reality. narrow nomenclature is the current problem. We need a more general definition that correctly portrays the scientific problem. As to the Motivations and Conduct of these alleged alien beings, I'll wait untill a proven, working model of the abduction is theorized and exhibited before I entertain such notions. >The wave/particle conundrum in subatomic physics is a good model. Until more >evidence is in, a beneficial course might be one of hoping for the specifics >while expecting a protracted period of generalities. I think the only "specifics" we need to be hoping for is some definative proof that the abduction exists. >Unlike most fields of scientific research, certain aspects the this sub-field >of UFOlogy place exceptional demands on the education, experience and >personal values each investigator brings to the work. As such, this pivotal >field of study is both complicated and well serviced by the diverse range of >approaches represented by Sims, Smith, Jacobs, Carpenter, Boylan, Hopkins, >Mack, and others. The personal values are a detractor to this feild, IMHO. The egos of those you mention often get in the way of real research, and the propriatary approaches and distinct lack of information sharing is disturbing. Importance is placed on what is remembered and not what is known. >The likelihood that any one camp is precisely on target, given the >extraordinary elusiveness, complexity, and paradigm challenging nature of the >unfolding evidence, is slim. The likelihood that any one camp is precisely on target is slim to none, and slim just left. >There is a painful need for tolerance at this point. The community of >UFOlogy is still building the formal structures for ordered investigation and >peer review. The field has struggled against the effects of advanced >speculation and theorizing running well ahead of the evidence. Tolerance is needed on both sides. Tolerance from the minority of scientificly minded individuals for the heavy emotional burdens this feild carries, and tolerance from the majority of emotionally motivated individuals that the scientificly minded individuals aren't attacking them personally. >Of course, the involved participants have a powerful need to put language to >these encounters - to find some solid ground upon which to stand. Each must >cope in their own way. There is, however, something to be said for an >intrinsic nimbleness - a readiness, given the huge potential for >unprecedented intellectual quakes in our very ground of being, to set down on >that piece of earth still intact when the shaking is over. We need a language just so that we can talk to one another without the current confusion and insults. Michael -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Re: Abduction Question From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:06:55 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 13:01:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: Abduction Question ---------- > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction Question > Date: Tuesday, December 31, 1996 12:00 AM > Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:26:33 +0000 > From: Julie Salvadore <Coyotee9@worldnet.att.net> > Organization: AT&T > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Abduction Question > References: <2.2.32.19961209140731.00683268@globalserve.net> > Clark, Hello Julie! > Thanks for your response to the question I posed. Everyone > except one person that responded had some sort of military > connection. I don't know if it is relevent or not. I believe > it is. I used to live in Chico, California, not far from > Oroville. Beautiful area down there. Again thank you for > responding. You are very welcome. I suspect that this if indeed true, is significant. I certainly agree with you ... that entire area of Northern California is beautiful. I used to really enjoy the drive from Chico up to Lake Almanor. I used to do a lot of fishing in the creeks up north of there. ;-) Kindest regards, Clarke
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Happy New Year! From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 22:59:28 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 13:02:44 -0500 Subject: Happy New Year! To those among the many members of this list (and those participating in the exchange of articles) observing the secular common era calendar worldwide (and those who by comon practice have a good time with their loved ones): HAPPY NEW YEAR! Francisco 8-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 11:44:52 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 13:05:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Paraphrasing Dennis from an article he wrote years ago: You can't use >one mystery to explain another. Scientists work with the physics that >they know, not the physics they don't know ... Actually John, this is *exactly* what much of modern physics does. Just consider Eintein's graviton which has never been detected or Higg's boson or superstrings in modern unified field theories. Or Kip Thorne, who pos- tulated negative matter in order to create worm-holes and FTL travel. All of them just hypothetical constructs. Physicists theorize all kinds of things if it allows them to account for specific observations. That's why modern physics is still mostly ad hoc and descriptive, not explanatory. Jean __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 IUFO: New Radio UFO Talk Show From: Kenneth Weiner <alcyone@nai.net> Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 00:10:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 13:03:35 -0500 Subject: IUFO: New Radio UFO Talk Show WPLR 99ROCK HITS AIRWAVES WITH NEW UFO TALK SHOW WPLR99ROCK will be airing a brand new talk show on the Rock station called "Cosmic Connections with host's Kenny Lloyd and Bod Tallard The UFO Radio talk show will include your phone calls from around the World,instudio interviews,and all the latest UFO related news happening around the World today. Cosmic Connections will premeir Sunday January 26,1997 starting at 9:30 P.M.EST from New Haven,Connecticut in the U.S.A. If you would like to be considered as a guest by phone,or instudio on Cosmic Connections WPLR wants to hear from you. If you want us to be on the air every Sunday night send your email letters to Program Director@WPLR.Com If you want to call in and have information to share with other listeners the lines will be open at area code 1-(203)-248-WPLR We are also requesting you call the station even if you cannot get us where you live saying you want this show on every week,and you want the Ufo Talk show on nationally so you can hear it in your area. Cosmic Connections is going to take Ufo Talk radio to a new level from abductee's,Contactee's,Crop Circles,ET Contacts,UFO's,And even people will be interviewed who claim to be channelers of different Et's all on Cosmic Connections.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 UFO Military/Government Witnesses From: "Steven M. Greer M.D." <103275.1472@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 00:05:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 13:04:25 -0500 Subject: UFO Military/Government Witnesses 15 November 1996 To: President William Jefferson Clinton Vice President Al Gore National Security Advisor Tony Lake Secretary of Defense William Perry Secretary of State Warren Christopher DCI John Deutch General Shalikashvili, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Mr. Arlen Specter, Chairman, Senate Intelligence Committee Mr. Larry Combast, Chairman, House Intelligence Committee Mr. Strom Thurmond, Chairman, Senate Armed Services Committee Mr. Floyd Spence, Chairman, House National Security Committee Dr. Daniel Goldin, Director of NASA FBI Director Louis Freeh Attorney General Janet Reno From: Steven M. Greer M.D., Director of CSETI RE: Planned Disclosure on the UFO/Extraterrestrial Subject and National Security Oaths The CSETI (Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence) Project Starlight initiative has now identified several dozen former and current military, intelligence and defense contractor related witnesses to UFO/ETI events and projects. As set out in a number of documents and briefings (see enclosures) it is our intention to have these important witnesses provide open, public testimony on this matter in the very near future. In the summer of 1995, we requested that the President take appropriate steps to allow these witnesses to speak openly, without civil, military or other penalties. Since then, there has been an exponential growth in the number of such witnesses who wish to come forward. Some of them are elderly, and suffering from serious medical conditions. We feel that these patriotic and courageous heros of our country - who very much wish to tell their fellow citizens the truth on this matter- must not take this information to their graves. Therefore, we are asking from you a clear determination regarding their freedom to speak openly on this subject. Over the past three years, we have found that members of Congress, the Executive Branch, military and intelligence leaders have not been briefed on this important matter, and that operations related to the subject exist as 'unacknowledged' special access projects. Most operations exist in the private aspects of the military industrial sector, with apparently extra-constitutional funding and oversight. As such, and until established otherwise to our satisfaction, we regard these operations, and all so-called 'security oaths' derived from them, as illegal, and therefore non-binding for these witnesses mentioned above. Therefore, UNLESS OTHERWISE DIRECTED BY 1 JANUARY 1997, we will move forward with a series of events whereby these witnesses may provide open, public testimony. If we do not hear from you, or if we hear that you concur, we will proceed with a public disclosure after that date. Only if you notify us specifically that such witnesses to UFO/ETI related matters are still bound to silence will our plans for a disclosure by them be altered. As mentioned in previous briefings and documents to members of the Administration, the military, the Congress and others, it is our intent to effect this disclosure in a way which is scientific, forward looking and hopeful. It is not our intent to cause instability for our nation or the world, but , rather , to mitigate the clear dangers which current covert management of this issue presents. We invite your advice, assistance and support in this process of disclosure on a matter which is arguably the most important of the twentieth and early twenty first centuries. Testimony from these witnesses will include but not be limited to: >Retrieval of disabled extraterrestrial devices and extraterrestrial life forms >Reverse-engineering projects related to extraterrestrial technology >Reconnaissance and tracking of UFO/Extraterrestrial vehicles >Covert projects related to the subject >Confirmation of military/UFO encounter cases >The nature and scope of disinformation programs related to the subject We hope to hear from you regarding this matter as soon as possible. Thank you for your attention to this request for a determination on the status of these witnesses as it relates to providing public testimony during 1997. Respectfully, Steven M. Greer M.D. Director of CSETI Email: 103275.1472@compuserve.com enclosures *************************************************************** At 12 am today, 1 January 1997, the deadline expired for US Government correction of our previously stated position that military, intelligence and other government related witnesses to UFO events/projects were free to speak openly of their knowledge and experiences. In a letter dated 15 November 1996, CSETI Project Starlight stated the position that, since projects related to UFOs exist and have existed outside legal constitutional oversight and control, that all security oaths related to such projects are null and void. The letter stated that, UNLESS OTHERWISE DIRECTED, that this assessment would be regarded as accurate and that all such government witnesses would be free to speak openly as of 1 January 1997. This letter was sent to, and acknowledgement of receipt has been obtained, from: President Bill Clinton Vice-President Al Gore National Security Advisor Tony Lake Secretary of Defense William Perry Secretary of State Warren Christopher Director of Central Intelligence John Deutsch Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Shalikashvili Chairman Senate Intelligence Committee Arlen Specter Chairman House Intelligence Committee Larry Combast Chairman Senate Armed Services Committee Strom Thurmond Chairman House National Security Committee Floyd Spence Director of NASA Daniel Goldin FBI Director Louis Freeh Attorney General Janet Reno Additionally, this document has been sent to the US Supreme Court and acknowledgement of receipt is pending. The letter is attached to this file. Numerous background and position papers were enclosed with this letter, including a detailed listing of agencies, entities, corporations, and covert facilities associated with the UFO/ET subject. The UNLESS OTHERWISE DIRECTED (UNOD) format is routinely used in governmental and military situations and indicates that unless otherwise instructed, the position and described actions are approved implicitly. This letter clearly stated that we intend to assemble as many bona fide government officials and witnesses as possible, and that they will speak publicly and openly about their knowledge of UFO/ET events and covert projects. Since the letter was issued, senior and reliable intelligence sources have stated that no response or interference would be forthcoming vis a vis plans for government witnesses to publicly come forward with their testimony. Significantly, as of 1 January 1997, no government entity, official, agency, department or office has contradicted this assessment or stated that such government witnesses are any longer bound to silence. CSETI Director Dr. Steven Greer has been meeting with various government officials, including members of the US Congress (House and Senate) to discuss this matter and ask for open hearings on the subject of UFOs/ETI. In preparation for these disclosures,and in light of the expiration of the above deadline, a meeting of such military, intelligence, government and corporate witnesses will be held later this winter. Bona fide witnesses, or contacts to such witnesses, should contact Dr. Steven Greer immediately concerning participation in this event. A similar, but smaller, event was organized by CSETI in 1995, and was attended by US Astronauts, US and Russian military officials and others. The meeting this winter will assemble a significant number of such government UFO witnesses to meet with congressional and other public officials and to request open hearings within the Congress, so that they may testify openly about their knowledge and experiences related to UFOs/ETI. Should Congress not agree to open hearings, other venues, such as the United Nations or a private disclosure event, will be pursued to effect a publc acknowledgement of the reality of UFOs/ETI. This notice may be distributed freely among all newsgroups, media and interested parties, without further permission or restrictions. CSETI 1 January 1997 Steven M. Greer M.D., Director 704-274-5671; Fax: 704-274-6766
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Eyewitness Testimony From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 96 15:18:54 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 13:06:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony Subject: HUMOR Sent: 12/31/96 5:27 PM Received: 12/31/96 3:04 PM From: Mike Kemp, minutemn@pcl.net To: Liberty, liberty@hollyent.com > Subject: Happy New Year Humor NEW YEARS HUMOR HAPPY NEW YEARS TO ALL Features THE PHILADELPHIA DAILY NEWS Features > > > >Wringing out the old year let's start with the good news: Under the current laws of physics, there is no possible way that 1996 can be repeated. This is important, because it means we won't have to go through the Madonna pregnancy again. Nor will we ever again have to watch wealthy twits desperately bid insane amounts of money for Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis' old stuff. But above all, we will not have to repeat the 1996 presidential race, which was so lame that it could have been promoted by Don King. Now is the time to sit down in a room devoid of sharp objects and reflect back upon the eventful year we've just been through, starting with . . . > >January . . . which began on an ominous note when hostile alien beings from the Planet Gazoom put into action their sinister plan to take over the Earth. This involved beaming a powerful, precisely aimed ray across millions of light years, into the brain of Mrs. Wanda L. Klongwinkle, who at the time was sipping a brandy Alexander with some friends in a bar in Elizabeth, N.J. Seized by a force that she did not understand but was compelled to obey, Mrs. Klongwinkle rose to her feet and, without any conscious thought, stuck out her left arm . . . then her right arm . . . ``Wanda,'' her friends asked, ``What are you doing?'' ``I don't know,'' she answered. ``Teach us how!'' her friends said, leaping to their feet. From across the galaxy, the Gazoomians watched this scene on their video screen and exchanged high-17s. ``They're falling for it!'' said their leader. ``Soon, the ENTIRE PLANET will be infected with . . . with . . .'' He turned to his assistant, and asked, ``What do we call that thing again?'' The assistant checked his notes. ``The Macarena,'' he said. Speaking of alien beings: In January, Lisa Marie Presley and Michael Jackson broke up, reportedly because of a legal squabble over who would have custody of their larvae. In the ongoing permanent Whitewater scandal, Hillary Clinton told a grand jury that she did not recall ever having lived in any place named ``Arkansas.'' Speaking of people who got into trouble, in . . . February . . . legendary defense attorney F. Lee Bailey was sent to jail when, following a tumultuous hearing in a Florida courtroom, the judge found out what the ``F'' stands for. In other legal affairs, the Whitewater grand jury > attempted to subpoena President Clinton, but he was able to convince federal > marshals that he was a different Bill Clinton from the one named on the subpoena, and he did not actually reside at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., but was merely there to service the furnace. Elsewhere in politics, the potential weakness of Bob Dole as a Republican presidential candidate was graphically revealed when, after barely winning in Iowa, he was soundly defeated in the New Hampshire primary by Boris Yeltsin. > Finally, in one of the year's most alarming stories, a large asteroid -- capable of causing widespread devastation and death -- barely missed the Earth. This sobering incident convinced many Americans of the need to develop a contingency plan so that the next time the human race is threatened by a disaster of this magnitude, we can sue. Speaking of space, in . . . > March . . . the Earth was treated to a spectacular celestial show as the newly discovered Comet Hyakutake appeared in the night sky, so bright that you didn't even need binoculars to see the Nike logo. Meanwhile, courageous U.S. > astronaut Shannon Lucid began what would be her record-shattering 188-day journey in space aboard the Russian space station Mir, where the first thing > she discovered was that ``Mir'' is the Russian expression for ``We're out of > toilet paper.'' In legal news, after what seemed like eight or nine trials, a California jury finally convicted the Menendez brothers of murdering their parents. O.J. Simpson immediately vowed that he would not rest until he tracked down the REAL killers. Abroad, an outbreak of ``mad cow'' disease caused many British restaurants to stop serving hamburgers. Thanks to prompt action by health authorities, the problem was solved and beef sales returned to normal, only to plummet again following an outbreak of ``mad ketchup'' disease. Speaking of mad, in . . . April . . . a long and frustrating investigation finally came to an end when federal investigators zeroed in on an isolated cabin in Montana after eccentric hermit Ted Kaczynski, in a rare slip-up, filled out a Publishers Clearing House sweepstakes form, and in the space marked ``occupation,'' wrote ``Unabomber.'' A search of his cabin revealed explosive devices, incriminating letters and -- in yet another bizarre twist to an already bizarre story -- a box of billing records from Hillary Clinton's former law > firm. In one of the year's most moving and poignant stories, members of the international social, arts and business elite gathered for several days and -- in a moving tribute to the passing of one of America's most beloved and respected women -- bid as much as $20,000 for individual strands of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis' used dental floss. Speaking of class, in . . . > May . . . New York City, seeking to improve its image with out-of-town visitors, gave a crash course in courtesy to its cab drivers, who were taught the finer points of etiquette, such as: > >Tap your horn in a series of quick, polite ``beeps'' when driving on the sidewalk. > When possible, do not spit directly on the passengers. > >Do not say to departing passengers: ``Go >[bleep] > > yourself.'' Instead, say: ``Have a nice day > [bleeping] > >yourself.'' Meanwhile, Bob Dole quit the U.S. Senate and underwent surgery to remove his tie. In other government news, federal safety authorities, having finally completed the important work of badgering the auto manufacturers into providing air bags, began the important work of warning the public about the > dangers of air bags. Speaking of safety, in . . . > >June . . . the Federal Aviation Administration, reacting boldly and decisively to a rash of airline disasters, announced that it was banning all commercial flights from flying directly over FAA headquarters. Meanwhile, in ongoing scandal action, it was discovered that White House employees had obtained FBI files of prominent Republicans who were clearly not being considered for federal jobs, such as Abraham Lincoln. President Clinton said this was caused by a ``bureaucratic snafu'' and vowed to find out who was in charge of the White House and give that person a real talking-to. Meanwhile, it was reported that Mrs. Clinton had been having conversations with the late Eleanor Roosevelt. Mrs. Roosevelt was immediately subpoenaed by the Whitewater grand jury. In sports, the trend toward ``naming rights'' -- in which municipalities sell the right to name sports facilities -- reached a new milestone when Boston's historic Fenway Park was legally renamed the Dr. Stanley A. > >Ferbisher Male Impotency and Implant Clinic Stadium. > > And speaking of sports, in . . . > > > >July > > . . . the big story was the International Olympic Games and Advertising > >Vehicle, which began with a spectacular opening ceremony that culminated in > >an electric moment when the Olympic torch -- which had been lit in Greece > >and carried by thousands of Americans on an epic 10,000-mile journey > >throughout the United States -- was turned over to Atlanta's official > >Olympic bus transportation system and disappeared without a trace. In > another > >memorable moment, gutsy 19-pound U.S. gymnast Kerri Strug, courageously > >competing on a fractured ankle, raced down the vaulting runway, launched > >herself off the springboard, and -- while still in midair -- signed with > an > >agent. She had a book-and-TV-movie deal before she hit the ground. > > In England, the troubled marriage of Prince Charles and Lady Diana finally > >ended with a divorce settlement under which Diana will get 20 million pounds > > >(although it was not about the money), a lifetime subscription to Vogue and > >the right to appear on the cover of People magazine for the next 200 years. > >Charles gets to keep Wales, Scotland, the fondue set and a stuffed bear > >called ``Wookins.'' > > Speaking of fun couples, in . . . > > > >August > > . . . Bob Dole announced that his running mate would be Jack Kemp, the > >theory apparently being that Dole could clarify his campaign message by > >joining forces with somebody he didn't agree with or even like. > > On the other side of the political spectrum, the Democratic campaign in > >Chicago was highlighted by a powerful speech by President Clinton, in which > >he pledged to ``build a bridge to Indonesia and collect large cash > >contributions.'' > > In science news, the astronomy community was rocked by the announcement > that > >a rock believed to have originated on Mars contained tiny traces of a > >material that, according to sophisticated tests, was genetically identical > to > >Ross Perot, who also decided to run for president once again, under the > >slogan: ``This Time, He'll Take His Medication.'' > > Speaking of unbalanced persons, in . . . > > > >September > > . . . Saddam Hussein, sensing that his popular support was waning, ordered > >his troops to attack the Kurds, thereby leaving Bill Clinton, as leader of > >Saddam's arch-enemy nation, with no choice but to order missile attacks > >against Iraq, which of course caused Saddam's popularity to skyrocket and > >also, as a bonus, made Clinton look presidential during his re-election > >campaign. So it was really a ``win-win'' situation, unless of course you > >happened to be a Kurd. Or Bob Dole. > > On the social front, a 6-year-old North Carolina boy innocently kissed a > >schoolmate and, following a wave of national publicity, was elected to Bob > >Packwood's old Senate seat. > > Speaking of romance: The most important social event in world history took > >place when mega-hunk John F. Kennedy Jr., after having publicly dated an > >estimated 23,000 beautiful tall blond thin women, finally selected as his > >wife > a beautiful tall blond thin woman named ``Mrs. Mega-Hunk John F. Kennedy > >Jr.'' > The couple were married in Georgia in a small, very private ceremony >with a > ``Dukes of Hazzard'' theme, after which everybody went to the mall and >had > corn > dogs. > > On a happy note, U.S. astronaut Shannon Lucid, who had been stranded in > >space aboard the Mir because of mechanical problems with the space shuttle, > >was finally able to hitch a ride back to Earth on an Olympics transportation > > >bus whose driver had been trying since mid-August to take the Swedish > fencing > >team to the Atlanta airport. > > Speaking of foreigners, in . . . > > > >October > > . . . the Clinton administration angrily denied charges that non-citizens > >were buying access to the federal government through large cash > contributions > >to the Democratic Party. ``That's ridiculous,'' snapped official White House > > >spokesperson Vopulaji Olymetrioudamba Harshpretyoun IV, speaking through a > >translator. > > In sports, the New York Yankees won the World Series, thanks to the stellar > > >performance of Most Valuable Player Jeff Maier, age 12. > > Meanwhile, in the most important social event in world history since the > >marriage of mega-hunk John F. Kennedy Jr., Madonna had her baby. > >Unfortunately, this blessed event was marred by the obnoxious behavior of > the > >press, which published photographs of Madonna, her baby and the father of > her > >baby (whose name is ``The Father of Madonna's Baby''). This caused great > >anguish for Madonna, who felt that she was entitled to privacy, which makes > >tons of sense seeing as how she has spent most of her adult life running > >around largely naked screaming, ``I'M A STAR!!! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!'' > > Speaking of needing attention, in . . . > > > >November > > . . . as the presidential race came down to the wire, Bob Dole, in another > >shrewd tactic, campaigned without sleep for 96 straight hours, at the end of > > >which he was promising to ``protect America from all these giant flying > >snakes with the face of Howard Cosell.'' Despite this compelling effort, the > > >estimated 873 Americans who were still willing to vote in this election > >decided to go with Bill Clinton, who declared that his re-election was ``a > >victory not just for me personally, but for all the people of America who > >might be in a situation where they could benefit from a pardon if they just > >keep their mouths shut a little longer, if you catch my drift.'' Dole, in a > >gracious concession speech, promised to support the president and ``visit > him > >in jail.'' > > In sports, the boxing world was stunned by one of the most shocking upsets > >in weeks when Mike Tyson, going into a championship bout as an overwhelming > >favorite, was knocked out in the 11th round by Kerri Strug, who > >coincidentally shares the same agent. > > On the legal front, there were widespread reports of sexual abuse on Army > >bases, prompting an outraged O.J. Simpson to vow that he would not rest > until > >he found the branch of the military that was really responsible. > > And speaking of responsible, Michael Jackson, having fulfilled all his > other > >major fantasies, such as owning an amusement park and a monkey, decided to > >become a parent. The biological details were not made public, but Jackson, > in > >a statement to the press, said he was ``very excited'' about the forthcoming > > >blessed event, as was the mother-to-be, Dennis Rodman. > > Speaking of preparing, in . . . > > > >December > > . . . Bill Clinton, preparing for his second term in office, announced his > >new Cabinet lineup, which included John Huang as secretary of the newly > >created Department of Indonesian Affairs and Robert Shapiro as secretary of > >defense. The president also vowed to order an investigation to determine how > > >the body of Jimmy Hoffa turned up on the residential floor of the White > >House. ``But if I had to guess,'' Clinton remarked, ``I'd say it was a > >bureaucratic snafu.'' > > > >Philadelphia Online -- > >Philadelphia Daily News -- > >Features > > > >Copyright Monday, December 30, 1996 > > > > > > > >---------------- > >Copyright Notice > > > >Any public or commercial use, distribution or duplication of these materials > > >without written permission from Philadelphia Newspapers Inc. is a violation > >of federal copyright law and may also violate the rights of third parties. > > > > Search for other documents from or mentioning: pparri | minutemn |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Intelligence Analysis? Food for thought From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 97 12:56:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 15:35:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Intelligence Analysis? Food for thought David & Angie Lynn put forth compass and in reference to... > ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated > and yet remain 100% pure ...commented that; >Yah, but it doesn't taste as good. Nor does it grow on trees, unless you refer to neural dendrites as trees, but in that case it's really only a directory structure. Strange that the human mind uses a GUI interface such that all metaphors are metaphors of other metaphors. Such is life. One must remember that; "If it tastes like chicken it ain't chicken unless it *IS* chicken!" HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!! ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 13:18:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 15:34:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >References: <2.2.32.19961230154433.0073d5c8@mail.globalserve.net> <snip> >Paraphrasing Dennis from an article he wrote years ago: You can't use >one mystery to explain another. Scientists work with the physics that >they knnow, not the physics they don't know or the physics they wish >they knew. The physics that we know today tells us that FTL travel is >impossible. Impossible in the past, impossible now, and impossible in >the future as well. This type of strict scientific conservatism is part >of the scientific process. It doesn't mean that we _know_ FTL will be >impossible forever, it just means that based on just what we know today >its impossible. >We don't have to make assumptions about what the core UFOs are, or why >they are, or how they got where they were when they were >(allegedly) observed. While I greatly appreciated reading your thoughts, I was also influenced by the recent reference titled: "Terminology has the power to self-generate epistemology" submitted by "SGBConsult@aol.com" aka. Steve Bassett. While I understand your meaning, our seemingly absolute insistance that physics states that FTL travel is impossible is a dramatic illustration that terminology generates epistemology. Physics describes a certain "domain" where FTL travel appears not to be exceeded. Physics does not preclude the existence of domains where FTL speed is common. Nor does physics preclude that what we perceive or measure may also be a multi-domained realm that has only been measured partially only because of our "limited definition" of it. We may, in fact, have a methodolody to demonstrate that we do participate in a multi-domained realm within which FTL speed is indeed commonplace. These "measures" may also account for problems currently experienced with the Bohr model. For the past year I've been re-reading an an interesting variant of the Bohr model of the hydrogen atom in a book titled _THE PHYSICS OF TACHYONS_ by Ernst Wall, published by Hadronic Press, and further elaborated on http://www1.shore.net/~ewall/ . The model is quite elegant and the more I read it and ponder its elegance in light of superstring theroy, 10 dimensional hyperspace and the rebirth of interest in the Kaluza-Klein theory of light as the fifth dimension, symmetry, Hawking's Quantum Cosmology, "dark matter," supersymmetry, etc., it all seems to merge in the Wall model that suggests a unified particle model describes electrons, muons, protons, mesons and light particles In the Wall model, matter (namely the electron and the proton) is composed also of tachyons operating within a superluminal domain where FTL speeds are the norm and where STL is impossible while interacting with muons in a domain where FTL is the limit. Both domains are necessary for this supersymmetry of existence to occur. If this is so, we are already moving FTL, or, at least, a realm or domain of our existence is FTL. When we understand physics as a means of functional description rather than as an absolute scale of operations we may be able to resolve the apparent FTL limit and other apparent limits to our epistemology. Regards, Ernie Search for other documents from or mentioning: ekarhu | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 IUFO: Russian Space Woes From: galaxy37@1starnet.com (Galaxy37@theStarGate) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 21:18:14 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 15:37:41 -0500 Subject: IUFO: Russian Space Woes ============================================================================== from international Wire Reports (20 December 1996) MOSCOW - The Russian space program is so short of money that it may have to shut down the orbiting station Mir, a news agency reported Thursday. Yuri Koptev, head of the space agency, also told a Cabinet meeting that the agency is falling behind on its part of the international space station, Alpha, the Interfax news agency reported. He said the space agency has exhausted its stock of booster rockets and has enough money to carry out just 11 of 27 planned launches this year. Cosmonauts aboard the Mir often have to extend their stays because of delays in building expensive rockets to bring them home. The Mir, which has been in orbit for a decade, is the pride of the Russian program.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: 'Backlash' From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 10:58:24 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 15:36:38 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 13:09:20 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' >References: <2.2.32.19961231024809.0067e8f0@mail.globalserve.net> >> From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' >> This is something I have argued, screamed, yelled, cajoled, ridiculed, >> and fought about for a long time. In your eloquence, you have made >> the point far better than I ever could. >> The fact that electronic monitoring devices fail IS an example of >> "evidence." Not all evidence is based on the senses of sight, sound >> smell, taste, or touch. In fact, the kind of statistical, anylitical, >> reproducable evidence that could be obtained from electronic >> monitoring is more valuable than all the current evidence we currently >> have. >Absolutely _FAR_ more valuable. I was being polite. If I wasn't being polite, I'd have said something to the effect that "at least we would HAVE evidence." I could think of nastier things to say, but again, I am feeling rather polite. >> If we had a subject, who honestly believes he/she has been the object >> of abduction by an alien being, under electronic monitoring we would >> could begin to process of determination for what was the experience >> that caused this belief. >Electronic monitoring could give us an enormous variety of hints. Even >if, as some naysayers believe, the aliens can zap out our equipment they >(presumably) can't control 'nature' uniformly and simultaneously. >By that I mean (just as an example) if we were independently monitoring >for temperature and humidity (as examples) we would likely detect brief >changes just prior to a blackout of the equipment. If we could do even >something as seemingly minor as that consistently we'd have very >significant _direct_ evidence. Furthermore, the "knocking out" of the physical equipment would, in and of itself, be an alarm that other actions are needed. NOW! >> The protocals for such an expermient would have to be worked out. It >> would almost have to involve more than simple location monitoring. A >> complete, independantly powered, electronic monitoring system would >> have to be established and placed on the subjects residence, or >> whatever locations are the subjects belief that abduction occur. >Multi-location monitoring could get expensive but we can dream about it ><grin>. Yes, or at least Multi-location monitoring on the scale that is affordable at a single location would be expensive. Some basic, off-the-shelf monitoring devices could be used. >A high-capacity UPS could easily power a half dozen pieces of gear for >over an hour, cutting the power wouldn't be a issue. An electrical >dampening field of some kind (microwave, magnetic) would have to be used >to zap the gear attached to the UPS. Ignoring for the time being that a >field powerful enough to zap the gear would fry the contents of the >room, includng the alleged abductee, we do know that such fields don't >materialize instantly, they propogate and would have slightly different >affects on different equipment at slightly different times during the >propogation - this alone could be recorded. >In other words, the gear would not all go off-line at the same time and >knowing how each piece of gear responds to dampening fields we could >reconstruct the source location of the dampening field. Too true. >> At the least, assuming that the subject is abducted from sleep and >> from their residence, would be an internal house system that indicated >> where the subject was in the residence; a system to determine the >> vital signs of the subject, including but not limited to brain >> activity; video and audio monitors of the residence; ambient air >> readings; and a systematic method of turning the system on or off >> without the subjects knowledge. >All doable with off-the-shelf, relatively inexpensive technology. And very little technical knowledge. Any reasonably handy soldering iron handler should be able to build these componants inexpensively and reliably from mail order parts. >> This would, of course, constitute the gravest possible invasion of the >> life of the subject. Keeping in mind that the research can not help >> but influnce the observation, such a study would do more to ligitmize >> abduction research than the current state of hypno-therapists have. >This is definitely an invasion of the individual's privacy, but there's >no way around that. For obvious reasons we would want a way to allow >the individual to turn on/off the gear (some of the gear) at certain >times. I also think that we, the researchers, should be able to turn the gear off without the knowledge of the subject. However, there would have to be some strict times when the subject could not turn the gear off. More importantly, this invasion of privacy would have to have the assurance that disclusure would be limited to relevant information. We can't be telling the world that our subject looks like Steven Segal but dresses like Mea West. >If somebody could demonstrate a consistency of something, _anything_, >physically happenning tis would become the hottest science research >project on the planet. >> What suprises me is the complete lack of initiative shown by current >> "leaders" to produce just this kind of evidence. >When I'm in a particularly generous mood I'm completely surprised by >that also <grin>. Then lets be generous and suprised. The alternative isn't pleasent. -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Old UFO case From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:29:33 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:30:43 -0500 Subject: Old UFO case Question for some of the historians on the list. I'm looking for an article in the April 8, 1912, issue of "Nature", detailing a triangular UFO case known as the "Wiltshire Shadows" case. That's not a typo -- it was really 1912. Anybody have any info? Thanks in advance. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 15:53:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:29:59 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence Gary writes: > If biographical research of the sort which Stanton Friedman performed so > rewardingly with Menzel interests you, take a look at background of > Frank Drake. OK. I'll bite? What's Drake's background? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 AUFORA - Thunder Bay, Ontario Sightings From: AUFORA News Update <dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 01:36:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:31:36 -0500 Subject: AUFORA - Thunder Bay, Ontario Sightings AUFORA News Update Wednesday, January 1st, 1997 <www.aufora.org> ____________________________ THUNDER BAY SIGHTINGS CONTINUE from the Chronicle Journal - Thunder Bay Gail Cohen Seen anything strange and glowing hovering over Thunder Bay lately? Report directly to agents Scully and Mulder. Maybe the UFO sightings around the city won't attract the attention of the X-Files just yet, but a local chapter of a UFO network is urging people who have seen anything to get in touch with them. "Every story is valuable in itself, but it's more credible with witnesses," said Ivan Sherlock, director of the Thunder Bay chapter of the Mutual UFO Network. City residents have been calling the Chronicle-Journal for a week with reports of changing black shapes and coloured lights in the sky. "We saw something over the harbour Saturday," Salvation Army Capt. George Paterson said Monday. He said he and his daughter made the sighting when he picked her up around 3pm. Paterson said he's not a believer in UFO's and thought it was a helicopter or balloon at first. But the object left the area very quickly. "It was definitely there," he said, "and was interesting enough to get my attention." Lori Eaton and her husband were driving along John Street on December 21 when they saw a white light in the southwest, in the direction of the city landfill site. "We looked up and the white light was gone and there were blue and green lights," she said. "I've never seen anything like it." She said as they got closer, the object seemed to hover over them and was distinctive in the sky. She insists it wasn't a plane or anything else recognizable. Calls to the coast guard, Thunder Bay Harbour Commission, police, air traffic control and Environment Canada haven't yielded any clues. The search for answers led to a call to the Canadian Security and Intelligence Service in Ottawa. After calling a toll-free number, the person who answered provided another number to call and said: "This is CSIS, we don't give out names," when asked where the new number would lead to. But it was a dead end. But Sherlock said his group is collecting data on sightings and the more information about each one they gather, the higher the probability of an answer. "Everybody sees something a little different," he said. "If we get 10 people then we can get a general trend." With an average of six sightings in the region, Sherlock said the last one he heard about was in November. The UFO group collects data using a standard questionnaire that asks about the weather and other details of what the witness saw. The information is sent to the provincial head office and put into a database for research at the group's headquarters in Texas. [Bud (Ivan) Sherlock - bud.sherlock@oln.com - ebk] __________________ AUFORA News Update News, Information, Facts from the world of UFOlogy To subscribe send e-mail to: dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ Helios Science News: http://www.helios.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Project 1947 - FEMA Event From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:26:23 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:32:24 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - FEMA Event HELP: Anyone with information or full report on FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Administration) event that occurred last year in Tennessee, please advise us here at: slk@world.evansville.net This may have been a "zoo" event, or possible bolide that produced a powerful "skyquake" over the midwest. This is one of the things we are studying along with other aerial phenomena, such as "sprites" and "jets", E-M UFO cases, etc. Dr. Richard Haines is sending us a report on "sprites". If you see anything in the media that may be of help, contact us by email. The article in the latest IUR (The Night The Mountain Exploded) by Jenny Randles may be further evidence of this phenomena. Francis Ridge UFO Filter Center The MADAR Project slk@evansville.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Survey From: SGBConsult@aol.com <Stephen G. Bassett> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 19:31:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:33:10 -0500 Subject: Survey As an aspect of gathering material for an article on the cultural assimilation of paradigm challenging events and evidence, I am preparing a simple, non-scientific survey. I thought I might try a modest test run on some lists for feedback. ____________________________________ Question focus: 1) Angels and/or demons exist, are present in our world and are being mistaken for alien (extraterrestrial) entities. 2) Aliens (extraterrestrials) exist, are present in our world and are being mistaken for angels and/or demons. Question: Assign a probability from 0 to 100 to each premise above, with 0 = absolutely not true and 100 = absolutely true. Guidance: RE: (1) If you believe that angels AND demons do not exist and/or are not present in our world, then the answer to (1) must be 0. If you believe angels or demons do exist, but are absolutely not being mistaken for aliens, the answer to (1) must be 0. Otherwise the answer is greater than 0 up to 100 (certainty). RE: (2) If you believe aliens do not exist and/or are not present in our world, then the answer to (2) must be 0. If you believe aliens do exist, but are absolutely not being mistaken for angels or demons, the answer to (2) must be 0. Otherwise the answer to (2) must be greater than 0 up 100 (certainty). Response: A response can be as simple as: (1) 37 (2) 89 OR (1) 0 (2) 57 ________________________________________ Request: Anyone reading this post is invited to respond- privately to prevent list clog Their response will be kept in strictest confidence. The results will be compiled and published to the list. Comments as to the value, structure and exposition of this survey are welcome (privately or on the list). Please feel free to cross post the survey to any list you feel would have an interest. Thank you, SGBConsult [Stephen G. Bassett]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: UFOs and Mainstream Science From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:37:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:33:57 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Mainstream Science Dr. Haisch .. you wrote: >Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:40:49 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFOs and Mainstream Science >UF0's and Mainstream Science >by Bernhard Haisch, Ph. D. >[Bernhard Haisch is the Managing Editor of the Journal of Scientific >Exploration, P.O. Box 5848, Stanford, CA 94309. E-mail: ><haischGjse.com>] >(Mutual UFO Network UFO Journal, Number 335, March 1996, Copyright 1996 >by the Mutual UFO Network, 103 Oldtowne Rd., Sequin, Texas 78155, >published monthly with a membership/subscription rate of $25/yr.) > >--- A RESPONSE FROM ONE RESEARCHER: JC: Your thoughtful letter certainly deserves a reply. First, it is a pleasure to hear someone of your credentials and background saying that you have "been exposed to enough data and met enough serious investigators to become supportive of the need to carefully study whatever this phenomenon (phenomena,) may be." The points you have brought to our attention are excellent. >From someone who is "an insider in the scientific mainstream: author of research papers, principle investigator on NASA projects, associate editor of a leading journal in astrophysics," this statement alone and your "Journal of Scientific Exploration' (JSE)" is another "breath of fresh air" that Ufologists having been working towards and literally praying for, for a number of years. I believe this is very significant as your letter is proof that the diligent efforts of Ufologists, although certainly divergent in nature, have been able to amass enough data or evidence to convince more scientists of your caliber that there is at least "some" substance to "some" of the things UFO researchers have been saying for years. As you have found, some of that evidence is indeed persuasive and that as you said; "It seems from my unique vantage point as both scientist and editor of JSE, that substantial evidence exists of "something going on." Your remarks concerning comments made by Daniel Goldin, the head of NASA, at "the American Astronomical Society in San Antonio," as to how Ufology might some day earn enough respectability to procure at least a portion of the "billions" which government spends on research, hopefully will be thoughtfully received. As you have said "Goldin's lesson for NASA" apply to us as well. It is important for us to remember that "If the American people truly want the UFO problem officially investigated, the government will do that by and by", and that "As Goldin urged us to do on behalf of NASA's research: write, call, visit your representatives and senators. Constituencies count. No doubt about it." Some of these are being attempted in Ufology today. But, you also said Goldin made a second point that there is... "a second key ingredient that really needs to come first, is that somehow, the community of Ufologists must reach consensus on prioritizing projects," and that "those of us whose projects may not make the cutoff, owing to fiscal limitations, should still obligated as members of the research community to support those that are selected." JC: Basically what is said here is that in collective unity, there is strength. This is the incredibly difficult part for us, unifying and agreeing as to who should lead this "crusade" and what specific direction we should take as a whole. You have said; "Evidence needs to be properly analyzed and then properly presented using techniques and venues as close as possible to those of mainstream science. The disparity of the evidence appears to be confusing enough without layers of unproven theory and conspiracy." JC: This is why researchers are attempting present the facts as we see them and to inform more "scientists" of the data that does presently exist so we can enlist their aid in achieving the above. More of us need to realize it is only people with the proper credentials and properly trained skills that can do this for us the most successfully. The Internet has become a valuable aide in this endeavor. It is helping us communicate with one another. This mail list is one such forum which has been dedicated to bringing these facts to anyone curious enough to find out more about this important topic. Many thanks are owed its overseer, Errol Bruce-Knapp and the many people who are and have been contributing their time and research to making this list a place where one can analyze and collect other people's serious thinking on the subject. Additionally, scholarly journals such as your own, material published by the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS), etc. are gradually leading us in the direction you mention. Hopefully, other newly interested "mainstream" Scientists, etc. may gradually be able to glean enough information from these sources to get them started on a path that will eventually achieve some of the goals you have mentioned. You also make another very important point that should be remembered by all: "To be fair to the principles of objectivity and comprehensiveness one must also acknowledge the possibility that the disarray of Ufology may be partially driven by official or semi-official disinformation, or even, taking the view of the respected researcher Jacques Vallee, by the UFO phenomenon itself." "Even if the UFO phenomenon should turn out to be deeper than we imagine, even should it prove to transcend science as we know it, the scientific approach is the only feasible way in the real, political, economic, technological world we live in to give us some chance to control our dealings with this phenomenon, rather than letting the phenomenon entirely control us... if such it is." JC: This is all the more reason why researchers need to continue their efforts in presenting the facts as they see them and doing their best to draw other mainstream Scientists into the fray. Thank you, once again for sharing your thoughtful insights with all of us. This researcher certainly appreciates the valuable time you have taken to do so. I am sure many others do as well. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Eyewitness Testimony From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:03:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:34:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:08:23 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Eyewitness Testimony >References: <2.2.32.19961230174206.006ff434@mail.globalserve.net> >> From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Eyewitness Testimony >> >> Incident at Exeter, New Hampshire * >> -------------- >> JC: John, >> I understood where you were coming from. I just couldn't resist. :-) >> No apologies are necessary from either of us. >Ahh, okay, I get it <grin>. >> It is simply my way of reminding readers out there that it is cases >> such as "Exeter," which defy all logical, rational explanation and >> which are the very reason this mail list, others like it, and the >> discussions ensuing therein exist. >Bingo. >> When one considers the accurate history of the subject and what >> legitimate scientists like J. Allen Hynek and James McDonald >> discovered along the way, the importance of investigations being >> conducted regarding abduction claimants and animal mutilations is not >> to be underestimated. > >Personally, I don't think it has been established that so-called alien >abductions or mutilations are related to classic ufology, nor do I think >we should assume they are related at this point. - - - - - JC: I didn't say this has been solidy proven but, they certainly are "food for thought." We both do agree; "In any case, each are serious events that need work." Happy New Year (and to everyone out there), Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 06:30:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:35:40 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: alien writing > > John Powell writes, about Budd Hopkins' samples of supposed alien > writing: > > I'd suggest > > comparing the original samples to the known foreign symbology and > > picking one foreign symbology to use. > > Have you asked Hopkins about doing such a study? > First he has to decide how he's publishing the data. > But I'll certainly suggest that he include an objective study, in > whatever form of publication he chooses. It's a good idea. I also remember some years ago when Strieber was doing the Communion Foundation and Communion Newsletter that they mentioned something like 25,000 letters from possible abductees. Perhaps he has samples too. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:24:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:40:11 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > Subject: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > > > A classic example is Donald Menzel's "explanation" of the famous > > > New Guinea case. > > It was apparent then and its very apparent today that Menzel relied > > on science only rarely when trying to explain (away) UFO sightings. > > It wasn't known then and it is known now that Menzel worked for the > > CIA at the time and was almost certainly doing what he did to assist > > the goals expressed by the Robertson Panel. > Some of the anomalous statements and behaviour of the scientists > performing SETI research made me wonder if there was another instance > of Menzelian science being performed. There probably are other examples, I'd be surprised if there weren't. Science politics is a heated competition of ideas. > If biographical research of the sort which Stanton Friedman performed > so rewardingly with Menzel interests you, take a look at background of > Frank Drake. I'm not at all familiar with his background. > Why should anyone think that the subtrefuge performed by Menzel ended > with his retiring from the ufo field and or his death? > Is it rational or logical to assume that the intelligence community's > activities in this field were staffed by that one person and the > operation and functions he performed stopped when he retired? There > is no basis for this assumption based on the Robertson/Durant report. No basis at all. I'm sure there are other such examples. We know, for instance (without even invoking the CIA), that the military has policies for official tactical deception. That's the actual name of the USAF's such policy. The Robertson/Durant net result, that we don't want Americans freaked out by UFOs (for various reasons) was good. I don't mean 'good' as in right, I mean that it made sense at the time. Today we obviously don't have that problem. Why not? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:34:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:41:01 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing > Again on Budd Hopkins' samples of supposed alien writing, John Powell > writes: > > However, there's _NO_ reason why Hopkins has to make that evidence > > _public_. For purposes of a quality analysis only the folks > > directly involved in the project need to have access. Given that we > > want strict controls only _some_ of those people would have access > > to _some_ of the data and _nobody_ would have access to all of the > > data. Once complete I assume Hopkins would want to publish the > > results at which time only _representative_ samples of the original > > evidence would necessarily have to made public. > Well, from the 14 samples I've seen, I'd say this....once one of them > has been made public, they all have. They're that similar. > And once even a short sample of this writing -- or whatever it is -- > gets published, anyone could imitate it. It's...I don't > know...idiosyncratic. Easy to recognize. So anyone new who came forth > and said they'd seen it could, conceivably, have seen the published > samples. > Or have I misunderstood what you're saying, John? No, you understood it perfectly. Still, Hopkins could publish one small portion of one sample - and that's all. Even without having seen the samples I'm _certain_ that a small portion of one sample could be found that if imitated _would not_ be enough to pass for an entire sample. What's needed from Hopkins here is less fear and panic and more logical and rational thinking. Additionally, if the handwriting study we're talking about ever gets off the ground we'd have experts lined up who could differentiate imitations from the 'real' thing. > > So what do you think the people that passionately write him are > > thinking about this non-action??? > I can make an educated guess about that, both from what the writers > say in their letters, and from my conversation with one of them. > They think he's too busy to respond to them, and, rightly or wrongly, > that's what they expected. The guy I contacted -- just to get a taste > of the experience, and in hopes of being able to follow an abduction > case from an initial contact which I'd know everything about because I > made it -- was shocked even to hear from someone representing Budd. He > said he thought he was dreaming. He hadn't seriously expected a > response. That's amazing. > One more point on the writing. I've got to ask Budd if he's every had > writing samples that aren't like the ones he showed me. Be interesting to know that answer. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:12:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:39:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > In a post on philosophy of science, I'd taken issue with scientists > who think aliens can't travel here, citing limitations taught by our > own scientific concepts. Some of these same scientists talk about > civilizations a billion years more advanced than we are. It seemed > absurd, to me, that they should dictate what beings more advanced than > us can do. > On that subject, John Powell writes: > > Paraphrasing Dennis from an article he wrote years ago: You can't > > use one mystery to explain another. Scientists work with the > > physics that they knnow, not the physics they don't know or the > > physics they wish they knew. The physics that we know today tells > > us that FTL travel is impossible. Impossible in the past, > > impossible now, and impossible in the future as well. This type of > > strict scientific conservatism is part of the scientific process. > > It doesn't mean that we _know_ FTL will be impossible forever, it > > just means that based on just what we know today its impossible. > > We don't have to make assumptions about what the core UFOs are, or > > why > > they are, or how they got where they were when they were > > (allegedly) observed. > I agree completely. But tell this to the SETI scientists, who really > do make assumptions. They assume that UFO reports must all be > explainable in conventional terms, because they've proved, they think, > that aliens can't travel here. I have no idea why SETI makes the assumptions it does. Why do they consider a signal 'good' only if its the _SAME_ signal coming from the _SAME_ place more than once??? Does that make sense? Do we broadcast the _SAME_ signal day after day? If a species technologically identical to us was 40 light years away and using identical SETI on us they'd conclude that we don't exist because we don't leak out the _SAME_ "I Love Lucy" re-run _every_ day...<grin> (I personally don't think SETI was designed to find anything except tax dollars...<grin> Fortunately, its a very inexpensive program.) > I'm not trying to make new assumptions of my own. I'm only trying to > undo some that have already been made. Good luck <grin>. > About using the physics we already know...as I found out once when I > exchanged e-mail with physicst Paul Davies on this subject, the notion > of sticking with science can be slippery. > For instance: suppose we want to send a probe to a nearby star. > Obviously, we'd get it there a lot faster if it traveled faster than > light. Should we plan to launch it at more than lightspeed? Bad idea! > In the physics we now understand, that's considered impossible, so we > wouldn't have a clue how to do it. Maybe someday we'll learn a new > kind of physics that will show us how to travel faster than light, but > if we wait for that, our probe will never get launched. We'd better > send it out using the science and technology we actually have. Yep. > But now suppose an apparent alien ship is sighted. Do we say > "Peckersnipe! Can't be! Aliens can't travel here, because they can't > go faster than light"? That, in my view, would be an inappropriate use > of our physics. Once we postulate aliens, we have to allow the > possibility that they know things we don't. Besides, just in general, > we need to keep in mind the possibility that our science might be > wrong. Otherwise, we'll never make progress. (Insert long essay on the > risk, wonder, and difficulty of changing major scientific paradigms. Y'know, there are scientists and then there are scientists/politicians. Science is never right or wrong, its just a constant search to _know_ what there is to know and how it works. That's _real_ science. The rest is just science politics. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 06:57:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:37:07 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > > A decent handwriting analysis database would provide the ability to > > separate out the handwriting samples derived from hypnosis and those > > not derived that way. The resulting comparison might be > > interesting, especially when compared with the individual's scores > > regarding the fresh versus original comparison and the short-term > > recall of known foreign symbology comparison. > Good thought. I agree. > Something else just crossed my mind. Suppose someone scores badly on > recalling foreign symbols, but draws (even freshly) the same kind of > supposed alien writing as everyone else. > Do you conclude that they're possibly faking the sample, because they > haven't demonstrated any ability to recall symbols of that kind? > Or do you conclude that you're dealing with different kinds of memory? I don't think the handwriting analysis that we're talking about here provides enough 'stuff' to make either conclusion. Instead, I think we'd be trying to weed out promising fresh/original sample combinations from less promising samples. That's really as far as it can go. I think we'd be able to rank the data. For an individual who scored well on the foreign symbology recall and whose fresh sample matches well with their original sample (which has been examined to not closely resemble known foreign symbology) we have the highest ranking. The opposite, the lowest ranking, would be an individual who scored poorly on foreign symbology recall and who's fresh and original samples don't match well (_and_ the original sample is found to be suspiciously similar to some or another known foreign symbology. If it turns out that the highest ranking dataset is large enough we don't need to evaluate lesser ranked datasets. That probably won't happen given important variables such as the length of time that has passed, etc. We don't want to evaluate the lowest ranked dataset because the results, whatever they might be, would be highly suspect. In-between highest and lowest would be various combinations like the one you mentioned. I don't think its a problem if an individual scores poorly on the foreign symbology recall. Actually, I informally tested myself and I scored badly! This mini-test is really there to find two things: 1) People who score well _and_ whose fresh/original score is high; 2) People who score poor _and_ whose fresh/original is score is poor. In the former we have a high ranking element and in the latter we don't we have enough reason to include this person in the formal analysis. > Psychologists have no consensus on this, but many believe that data > encountered in traumatic situations (or at least strongly emotional > ones) will be remembered far more strongly than data encountered > casually. I tend to think that's probably right but I'll wait for them to reach consensus <grin>. > John Velez's post on his memory of seeing the writing suggests that, > if these experiences are truly real, people might have the symbols > burned in their memory in a way that couldn't possibly happen in an > earthbound experiment. I don't think trauma is directly related to earthbound or non-earthbound events. Trauma is trauma. > There's also the notion of state-dependent memory, as cited by Stewat > Appelle in his examination of the abduction evidence in the Journal of > UFO Studies. If abductions occur in an altered state of consciousness, > similar to hypnosis, things that happen during them might be more > readily remembered under hypnosis. That's why I think an important element in the dataset would be knowing if the original sample was hypnotically derived or not. I'm necessarily highly suspicious of anything hypnotically derived that has _no_ non-hypnotic corroboration. A feature of this analysis would be that once we've selected the highest ranking datasets we could compare hypnotically derived data from free-recall data and see for ourselves what, if any, differences in score there are. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Old UFO case From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:02:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:48:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Old UFO case Hi Brian, haven't spoken with you in awhile. Hope everything's going well for you. I've been a busy beaver. You wrote: - - - - - >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:29:33 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> >Subject: Old UFO case > >Question for some of the historians on the list. I'm looking for an article >in the April 8, 1912, issue of "Nature", detailing a triangular UFO case >known as the "Wiltshire Shadows" case. That's not a typo -- it was really >1912. Anybody have any info? Thanks in advance. - - - - - JC: Sorry, I don't have it. Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net P.S. By the way, is this address still good for you or only the new one? Thanks. bdzeiler@students.wisc.edu (Brian Zeiler)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 10:26:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:51:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs As we muse about the science (or lack of it) behind the SETI program, John Powell suggests: > Y'know, there are scientists and then there are scientists/politicians. > Science is never right or wrong, its just a constant search to _know_ > what there is to know and how it works. That's _real_ science. The > rest is just science politics. I had an e-mail exchange with Paul Davies about some of the assumptions behind SETI science. Davies is an Australian physicist with a speculative and religious bent, who's written an excellent little book on extraterrestrial life (excellent, that is, within the probably dubious assumptions mainstream science tends to make). He's a UFO skeptic, for whatever that's worth. Anyhow, I asked Davies why the SETI types seemed so certain of their highly speculative conclusions. He answered that they exaggerated their cetainly in order to get funding. Politics...it's absolutly everywhere. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Project 1947 - References for Germany (Incomplete) From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:09:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:49:30 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - References for Germany (Incomplete) Here is a very incomplete list of German (and other Central European) References. (No Allied "Foo-fighter" reports for World War II are included.) (Ion Hobana's reports are also NOT included.) 1. References: D=Germany H=Hungary O=Austria P=Poland S=Switzerland T=Czechoslvakia RS=Reference Sources: U= UFO COMPUTER CATALOG (UFOCAT) D= DOUBT (The Fortean Society Magazine) N= UFO NACHTRICHTEN (Project 1947 does NOT have any UFO Nachtrichtens.) P= Project 1947 leads DATE LOCATION/NEWSPAPER (WITNESS NAME) RS REMARKS 1900 Schluechtern, D (Lamm) U N (10/59) 1905 Dreseden, D P 1907 Graz, O (Bode), U N (10/65) 1910 Koblenz-Pfaffendort, D P 1910/08/ Dessau, D U 1912 Cologne, D (Dickoff) U CE3 1912 Altoetting, D (Haberzettl) U N (6/59) 1913/11/ Belzig, D (Meinecke) U N (4/67&4/73) 1914/03 Bamberg, D U N (10/62) 1914/06 Hamberg, D (Herwagen) U CE3 1915 Virchow, D U N (3/73) 1919 Bad Homburg, D (Meng) U N (9/59) 1919 Muehlhausen, D U N (9/72) 1919 Duesseldorf, D U N (12/59) 1920 Maehr. Truebau, T (Kellner) U N (7/60) 1926 Leipzig, D (Reissner) U N (9/59) 1934/01/27 Borov/Pusta Kemeniz, T U CE2 1935 Eulengebirge, D (Dathenbach) U N (11/73) 1937 Border Germany/Poland P 1937 Gaenserndorf, O (Radhammer) U N (9/62) 1937/02/12 Wein, O U 1937/03/22 Bremerhaven, D (OKW) U N (11/59) 1939 Wein, O (Kasper) U N (7/66) 1939/09/03 Reilingen, D (Immel) U N (11/72) 1939/10 Utzenstorf, S (Buehler) U N (3/64) 1941/01/ D (OKW) U N (11/59) 1942/09 Berlin, D P * 1943 T U N (11/59) 1943 Comiso, O (Kasper) U N (7/66) 1943/09 Transylvania, H (Light like comet, 5minutes)P 1943/10 Kassel, D (Visarius) U 1943/12/18 Hambourg, D U 1944 Allenstein, D U N (7/71) 1944 Fall Warsaw, P U 1944/05 Kaernten, O U N (9/59) 1944/09/29 Rechlinm Goggenthin U 1944/10/09 Halle Saale, D (Nordstein) U N (1/73) 1945 D U N (9/65) 1945 Berlin (45K from), D (Ehrenhauss) U N (7/71) 1945 Tux, O U 1945/01 Mittel Deutschland U N (1/61) 1945/02 Berlin, D (Kiener) U N (9/63) 1945/03 Staub, D U N (7/62) 1946 Villach, O (Umfahrer) U N (10/59) 1946 Helsingborg, Sweden U N (2/72) 1946/09/ Berndshausen, D U N (9/59) 1947/02 D (Woman soldier see light) P 1947 Baden Baden/Bremen, D (Niemann) U N (12/58) 1947 Sulz. Neckar. D (Hopf) U N (3/64) 1947/06/10 Budapest, H U 1947/08 Stuttgart Nord, D U (Herb, Gert) 1947/08/19 Semmering, O (Mayer) U 1947/08 several report O P 1950/03/(24?) Berlin, D (United Press story) D 1950/03/(26?) Wein, O (police) (UP again) D 1950/04/01 Frankfurt et al, D D Humor 1950/04/12 Neukirchen, D (American officer) D AP 1950/04/(26?) Lucbeck, D D Reuters 1950/10/22 ------ /Berlin TELEGRAF D 1951/02/27 -------- /OBERLANSITZER RENDSHAU D 1952/09/29 ---------/Colner STADT-ANZEIGER D 1952/09/29 ---------/Die Welt D 1952/10/25 Old story 19th Century Bonn D Reuters (*Dispatch from Sweden that Berlin anti-aircraft shot at "lights." No Allied planes over Berlin.) 2. List of US Air Force Intelligence Reports from Air Technical Intelligence Liaison (ATIL) Office, Wiesbaden for 1952. (DATE is date of report--Not date of incident) DATE TITLE REPORT # 6/14 UFO over Stuttgart ATI 1094-52 7/19 UFO near Stuttgart ATI 1377-52 8/27 FLYOBRT ATI 1814-52 9/12 Flying Disk on Spitzberg ATI 1944-52 10/1 Observation of Unconvention Aircraft ATI 2130-52 10/6 FLYOBRPT ATI 2147-52 10/13 Observation of Unconvestion Missile ATI 2203-52 or Aircraft ATIL Office, Austria, 1953 Sept. UFO 1426-53 I have not yet checked these reports against the Project Blue Book index. The Air Liaison and Air Attachee offices only sent lists of reports for which they had special tasking. Routine reports were not listed. German and Sweden were the only countries in 1952 which had special tasking for UFOs. These lists were in the ATIC Attachee Files for 1951-1953 at Archives II, College Park, Maryland. The attachee files are incomplete. (Project 1947 is seek copies of reports from UFO Nachtrichten and other German and central European sources for 1900-1959.) Anders Persson, Please send a copy of this post to AFU at Nrrkoping. Thank you. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 10:21:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:50:34 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing Supposed alien writing again...Budd Hopkins has said he doesn't want to publish the samples of it that he has, because that would contaminate any future samples he receives. John Powell suggests: > Still, Hopkins could publish one small portion of one sample - and > that's all. Even without having seen the samples I'm _certain_ that a > small portion of one sample could be found that if imitated _would not_ > be enough to pass for an entire sample. Surprisingly enough, that's not so. I'd compared the writing -- symbology, or whatever it might be -- to Morse Code. That's not at all an exact comparison; the writing doesn't consist of dots and horizontal lines. But it does consist -- much like Morse Code -- of the same elements, repeated in every "letter" (or symbol, or whatever). I suppose if Budd published just a little bit of it, nobody would have to know that, having seen that little bit, they'd effectively seen enough of the whole to fake a sample of their own. Which maybe means I've blown the whole thing by saying this myself! Except I don't see how any published study of the 'writing' could fail to mention this fact. Again, to make this perfectly clear, I'll use an example. If the writing consisted only of these characters + ^ / that would mean every "word" would be some combination of them. For example: +///^ ^^^/+ /^^^ Now imagine page after page of "words" built from those characters. Once you knew that was how the stuff was constructed, all you'd need would be to see the three "words" I've just typed to manufacture a convincing imitation. Of course, maybe there are other similarities in Budd's samples...maybe the "words" themselves are similar, or there's some regularity in the order of the "letters." But you know...this is all really moot by now. Because if Budd really has 35 samples, it's about time he published them, and resigned himself to showing the world exactly what they look like. 35 is a striking impressive number, if they're truly found to be similar. I don't think much is gained by holding out for more. Greg Sandow By the way, John, I'm going to ask Budd to subject the things to a full impartial investigation. I don't think that's incompatible with the mode of publication he's chosen. In fact, even allowing him his choice of ways to publish, he could also have a study done by others, which could conceivably be printed in the Journal of UFO Studies. I'm going to see if that could be possible. This stuff is way too important to be left in my hands, or Budd's.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Drake's Equation From: The Mysterious & Unexplained Site Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 13:28:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 13:28:38 -0500 Subject: Drake's Equation http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html SETI: The Drake Equation Description The Drake Equation was developed by Frank Drake in 1961 as a way to focus on the factors which determine how many intelligent, communicating civilizations there are in our galaxy. The Drake Equation is: N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL The equation can really be looked at as a number of questions: N* represents the number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy Question: How many stars are in the Milky Way Galaxy? Answer: Current estimates are 100 billion. fp is the fraction of stars that have planets around them Question: What percentage of stars have planetary systems? Answer: Current estimates range from 20% to 50%. ne is the number of planets per star that are capable of sustaining life Question: For each star that does have a planetary system, how many planets are capable of sustaining life? Answer: Current estimates range from 1 to 5. fl is the fraction of planets in ne where life evolves Question: On what percentage of the planets that are capable of sustaining life does life actually evolve? Answer: Current estimates range from 100% (where life can evolve it will) down to close to 0%. fi is the fraction of fl where intelligent life evolves Question: On the planets where life does evolve, what percentage evolves intelligent life? Answer: Estimates range from 100% (intelligence is such a survival advantage that it will certainly evolve) down to near 0%. fc is the fraction of fi that communicate Question: What percentage of intelligent races have the means and the desire to communicate? Answer: 10% to 20% fL is fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations live Question: For each civilization that does communicate, for what fraction of the planet's life does the civilization survive? Answer: This is the toughest of the questions. If we take Earth as an example, the expected lifetime of our Sun and the Earth is roughly 10 billion years. So far we've been communicating with radio waves for less than 100 years. How long will our civilization survive? Will we destroy ourselves in a few years like some predict or will we overcome our problems and survive for millennia? If we were destroyed tomorrow the answer to this question would be 1/100,000,000th. If we survive for 10,000 years the answer will be 1/1,000,000th. When all of these variables are multiplied together when come up with: N, the number of communicating civilizations in the galaxy. The real value of the Drake Equation is not in the answer itself, but the questions that are prompted when attempting to come up with an answer. Obviously there is a tremendous amount of guess work involved when filling in the variables. As we learn more from astronomy, biology, and other sciences, we'll be able to better estimate the answers to the above questions. Many of these questions will be addressed in depth in future issues of Enigma.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 11:23:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 13:27:13 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence >OK. I'll bite? What's Drake's background? >Greg Sandow Frank Drake was born in Chicago on May 28, 1930 to Richard and Winifred Drake. Raised in Chicago's South Shore with sister, Alma, and brother, Robert, he had a fairly typical childhood. Always interested in science, he and his friends would spend hours experimenting with motors, radios, and chemistry sets. As his understanding of astronomy and the actual size of the universe grew he began to wonder about the possibility of the existence of other planets and life on those planets. The idea seemed reasonable to him. However, because of the religious convictions of his parents and teachers he never felt comfortable bringing up the subject of extraterrestrial life. After high school Drake enrolled at Cornell on an ROTC scholarship to study electronics. It was here that he fell in love with astronomy and finally found someone else who was considering the possibilities of life on other planets. In 1951, during his junior year he attended a lecture by Otto Struve, one of the world's preeminent astrophysicists. Towards the end of a lecture Struve showed that there was mounting evidence that planetary systems had most likely formed around half of the stars in the galaxy. Struve went on to state that life could certainly exist on some of those planets. Finally, Drake had found someone who shared his ideas. After college he spent the next three years with the Navy to repay his scholarship. Thanks to his electronics degree he ended up as the electronics officer on the USS Albany where he gained invaluable experience operating and fixing the latest high tech electronic equipment. When his Navy tour ended, Drake headed to Harvard graduate school to study optical astronomy. Fortunately, the only summer position available was in radio astronomy. Because of his electronics experience in the Navy he was a natural fit because the radio astronomy equipment was constantly in need of tweaking and repair. Drake got hooked on radio astronomy and never looked back. Upon finishing graduate school in 1958 he got a position at the newly founded National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in Green Bank, West Virginia. It was here in 1960 that the first search took place. Named Project Ozma by Drake, the search was a two week observation of the stars Tau Ceti and Epsilon Eridani. At one point during the search a false alarm, which turned out to be a terrestrial signal, caused some excitement. Other than that no signals were detected. Hardly expecting to find evidence of advanced civilizations on the first try the searchers were not disappointed by the result, but were encouraged because the search had finally begun. In 1961 Drake and J. Peter Pearman, an officer on the Space Science Board of the National Academy of Sciences, organized the first SETI conference. The three day meeting, held at the NRAO, was a small gathering of a dozen or so scientists who had shown an interest in SETI. It was in preparation for this conference that Drake came up with the now famous Drake Equation: N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL The purpose of the equation was to help focus the conference attendees' attention on the crucial questions that needed to be answered in order to determine the chances of SETI's success. (Try your own hand with the Drake Equation. Choose your best guess for each variable and see how many communicating civilizations there are in the galaxy. Click here.) In 1963 Drake took a short-lived position at the Jet Propulsion Lab and later that year he took a position at Cornell's Center for Radiophysics and Space Research. Two years later he accepted the directorship of the Cornell run Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico. Drake and his family returned to Cornell in 1968. http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/biography_drake.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:26:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:15:12 -0500 Subject: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article --------------------- Forwarded message: From: 76750.2717@CompuServe.COM (BOB SHELL) To: BlindCopyReceiver@, @ Date: 97-01-02 13:54:47 EST Hello All, Please post this far and wide since I have no way of knowing if Strange magazine will print it. Many of you have seen by now the article called "Dissecting the Alien Autopsy Film" by Douglas Chapman in Strange. Since I am mentioned in the article, I'd like to correct some of the information given there. First of all, let me congratulate Mr. Chapman for even attempting to clear up this murky subject. It is a difficult one to follow, even for someone who has been on the inside. Mr. Chapman has obviously tried hard to get his facts correct and do a good analysis of this topic in limited space. Overall, he has done well. Claims by Ed Stewart and others that only Berlyn Brixner photographed the Trinity atomic test have been shown to be incorrect. Brixner was one of four _civilian_ photographers. However, there may have been military photographers as well unknown to Brixner and the other civilians. "Jack" does not say in his story that he photographed the Trinity test, just "Trinity". There were many photographs taken of the site both before and after the test. "Jack" maintains that he shot aerial photos, and, in fact, aerial photos were taken, although no one today seems to know just who took them. They were certainly not shot by Brixner or any of the other civilians, and must have come from military cameramen. The article states: "Seven stills from the Roswell Autopsy film of the "first autopsy" were shown as slides in San Marino, Italy, on May 20, 1995.....in showings not open to the general public." Actually, what is referred to here is the still images from the _second_ autopsy, which is the autopsy used by Bob Kiviat in his FOX specials and used by all of the worldwide TV networks in their programs. The second autopsy shows the creature with the leg injury. It is important to clear this up, since there are two different autopsies on film clearly identified as number one and number two, and filmed on different days according to "Jack". The only images from the first autopsy which have been shown are still images on video tape apparently recorded from a TV screen with the VCR set on "still". This video was made at my request and I showed it during 1995 at several UFO conferences in open sessions. While I do not have permission to make copies for anyone, I am happy to show these stills to any serious researcher who wants to come to me, or meet me at a convenient location during my travels. These still images were created at my request from a video of the first autopsy to demonstrate the fact that there really are, in fact, two separate autopsy films. These stills have not been circulated on the Internet, and have not appeared in print (yet). I was sad to see the curly telephone cord brought up again, since it has been conclusively proven that such cords did exist in 1947. Even Phil Klass now agrees that this is the case. The film is said to show lack of scratches. How can anyone know this since they have only seen video from the film, and Ray Santilli says this was enhanced? Lack of scratches would prove nothing one way or another anyway, since it depends on storage conditions and how often the film is projected. I am identified in the story as "... a consultant to Kodak and the FBI named Bob Shell." I should point out that since I became openly associated with research on this film my "friends" at the FBI have been unwilling to take or return phone calls from me, so it appears that any future consulting work for them has been nixed by this project. I am a photographic consultant to a number of photographic companies, and this has not changed, but I do not divulge client's names, so saying that I am a consultant to Kodak is without basis. I have done no chemical tests on any of the film, and have not identified it as Cine Super XX. While the original may have been filmed on Super XX film, what I have been given is portions of copy film, not camera original, and it certainly is NOT Super XX. The film base does appear to be an earlier type of acetate discontinued in 1957. No one has ever claimed that the film sat in "Jack's" posession undeveloped since 1947. The film was, according to "Jack", processed right away. Where am I in my research? I have had the film looked at in detail by a number of medical professionals, and the great majority of them have said that this is a real autopsy/dissection of something that was alive not too long before the procedure or kept in cold storage. They do not think it is a special effects dummy. Indeed, if it was actually filmed prior to 1957, as seems to be the case, this is a ridiculous idea. Special effects were just not very sophisticated in those days. As a matter of fact, I have been carefully watching recent films done by the best special effects people around the world, and have yet to see anything with the sustained gritty reality of this film. I think when special effects people say they could do it, it is just hyper-inflated ego talking. Suggestions that these are deformed humans or results of genetic or radiation experiments gone wrong show a complete lack of understanding of biology and genetics. Again, such suggestions just do not hold up. So, treating the film separately from all the peripheral stuff attached to it, I do think it is real film of the dissection of non-human humanoids of unknown origin. I think the UFO community has done itself a serious disservice by not paying more attention to this film and simply dismissing it as a fraud. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Alfred's Odd Ode #71 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 14:13:21 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:17:04 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #71 Apology to MW #71 (For January 2, 1997)=20 And bite me gross humanity Though you crushed me like a bug Though you casually swept an idle glance And made me victim of some slug. You=92ve been wrong hearted, unjust =96 untrue You=92ve played the game uneven. You=92ve writ the rules conveniently Just a few =96 do better than just even. Society is your tangled web Of advantage taking schemes. Sociopaths, working rules they wrote Eviscerate our dreams. Religious hucksters buy their boats On the bowed backs of their people. Politicians fellate the rich . . . Good folks die beneath church steeples. Science is worse than the old Catholic church. Despotic, jealous, and haughty. Disdainfully hoarding its share of the power Unrepentant =96 its own record is spotty. Consider Hale-Bopp as it=92s currently circuiting=20 And remember, astronomical event of the century! Companions of star stuff -- through our space the *first time* Science panders us pictures of Hiyakatake . . . Newt=92s puppied face assuring integrity Smoked the old speaker to get where he was. . . Find out that later he is stealing from risk kids Therefore wounding us all -- guess because. . . And think of the press =96 that collection of whores They shop and they preen , they live in collectibles They sell soap, and deodorant !! We know they=92re objectionable. And lastly there=92s us, asleep with mad dreams. Not seeing in shadows =96 to scared to look . . . Societal design promotes that ignorance -- That=92s in too pricey college textbooks. If they really were up front at all They=92d provide an electric meter That read a straight per unit price Not their system of a cheater. =20 So ask you not, what=92s there for you Don=92t think to ask for more. There are folks who *earned* their right to gouge you And over price you in their stores. Yeah! Make fun of Art, and laugh and giggle. Hold Chuck Shramek for derision! But, pray they don=92t "up end" *your* rock And expose *your* lack of vision. Believe in Twitch, and Fun, and THE Roach. And their repugnant nonsense. . . ". . . Aristotle=92s spheres are still intact!" ". . . No evidence, as it=92s in absence!"=20 But that=92s the way it was for us --=20 Before we had our cyber space! Now we link in unpredicted ways We are uncontrolled -- ALL OVER THE PLACE! Consider the unthinkable! It boggles at the mind! Larry Flynt =96 *perhaps* is ethically superior To Bush and Dole combined. So rip the scales down from your eyes And look around the planet The kingdom sweet is still at hand. But we=92re taught to curse and damn it. Lehmberg@snowhill.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:27:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:30:01 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence I'm not sure what there is in Frank Drake's bio that should make anyone suspicious. Should we be worried because he served in the Navy? Does that make him an intelligence operative? Am I missing something here? The bio is incomplete, in any case. Drake's currently at the University of California at Santa Cruz. And about Drake's famous equation, which is supposed to show us how many intelligent civilizations there are in the universe....its main value, I think, is simply to put any number at all on something so unknown. Once you begin to put a number on something, it seems more scientifically legitimate. But as for the equation getting any results....well, here's Drake's own conclusion, after running the numbers (most of which he had to guess at, of course). I'm quoting from his book, which he tells how he presented his figures at a meeting: "We've reached a conclusion," I said. "Our best estimate is that there are somewhere between one thousand and one hundred million advanced exterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way." Quite a margin for error, wouldn't you say? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Old UFO case From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:45:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:29:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Old UFO case >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:29:33 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> >Subject: Old UFO case >Question for some of the historians on the list. I'm looking for an article >in the April 8, 1912, issue of "Nature", detailing a triangular UFO case >known as the "Wiltshire Shadows" case. That's not a typo -- it was really >1912. Anybody have any info? Thanks in advance. >Brian Looking at Barry Greenwood's draft bibliography of UFO and related phenomena in journal and magazine articles. I do not find this one. However, the following may be related: NATURE "Clouds and Shadows" 12 April 1912 "Clouds and Shadows" 19 May 1912 "Clouds and Shadows" 30 May 1912 "Clouds and Shadows" 27 June 1912 Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Project 1947 - Project Sign/Project Grudge Files From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:23:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:51:03 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Project Sign/Project Grudge Files Approximately 900 pages of Project Sign/Project Grudge material for 1948 and 1949 have recently been released. Barry Greenwood will feature the new material in JUST CAUSE #49. (USA: $15/year, Abroad: $20/year CAUS, P. O. Box 176, Stoneham, MA 02180, USA) He told me that the files are not just administrative material. Incidents not found in the Project Blue Book files are found in this new material. Also, new light is shed on older cases. None of the material dates from 1947, but 1947 material is discussed in the files. (BTW Mike, these do seem to match with the information you found.) Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence From: rfsignal@sprynet.com <Cathy Johnson> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:29:51 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:49:48 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence >Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:27:51 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence >References: <2.2.32.19970102182713.006f6020@mail.globalserve.net> >I'm not sure what there is in Frank Drake's bio that should make anyone >suspicious. What could possibly make any difference in his bio that would have an effect upon an obviously great effort and intellect that went into the formulation of something so undeniably simple as the equation? Nothing of the man's personal history should be infringed upon for public study. >Should we be worried because he served in the Navy? Does that make him >an intelligence operative? Whether or not he is an operative, has nothing to do with the formula that he was so adept in creating. The numbers are a science of themselves, not affected by weather or politics. >Am I missing something here? Yes, definitely. You are missing that simple fact of being human. You are trying to reach a plateau of etheric impossibility when you try to defeat simplistic mathematics by dragging any mathematician through a mud puddle. The formula devised by him was considered and found to be an acceptable expression of possibilities concerning intelligences in the known universe. >The bio is incomplete, in any case. Drake's currently at the University >of California at Santa Cruz. Perhaps the esteemed man will bend an ear to some of your questions about the matter. Afterall, it seems he is still amoung the living. >And about Drake's famous equation, which is supposed to show us how many >intelligent civilizations there are in the universe....its main value, I >think, is simply to put any number at all on something so unknown. Once >you begin to put a number on something, it seems more scientifically >legitimate. >But as for the equation getting any results....well, here's Drake's own >conclusion, after running the numbers (most of which he had to guess at, >of course). I'm quoting from his book, which he tells how he presented >his figures at a meeting: "We've reached a conclusion," I said. "Our best estimate is that there are somewhere between one thousand and one hundred million advanced exterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way." >Quite a margin for error, wouldn't you say? Just how easy is it for anyone to guess the possibilities that would begin to show the probabilities of intelligent life in the universe? At the moment, we can only truthfully say that the equation cannot equal zero nor any negative numbers. Whether it is only one, two , or two billion races of intelligent life in the universe, we can only be sure that the possibility of finding other intelligences in the universe is also more than one. It doesn't matter whether the equation is an accurate expression of mathematics or not. It doesn't matter what the mathematician did during his lifetime to have composed such a simplistic mathematical expression. It only matters that there is an accepted value in the presentation of the numbers to express a possibility that otherwise would have remained as an unknown value in our lives and sciences. NO? Personally, I can only say that there are things out there that humanity will not like for the most part. Only a few and rare kinds of intelligences could bear the whims of humanity for long. And at that, those kinds of intelligences are probably still considering whether or not humanity should be defined as an intelligent species. Think about it. Think about it a lot! Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Old UFO case From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:52:34 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:48:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Old UFO case >>Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:29:33 -0600 (CST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> >>Subject: Old UFO case >>Question for some of the historians on the list. I'm looking for an article >>in the April 8, 1912, issue of "Nature", detailing a triangular UFO case >>known as the "Wiltshire Shadows" case. That's not a typo -- it was really >>1912. Anybody have any info? Thanks in advance. Brian, I don't have any info regarding an article in 'Nature'. Here for you and other's information is what is in Peter Brookesmith's book, 'UFO: The Complete Sightings'. Perhaps Monsieur Bruce-Knapp could ask Mr. Brookesmith himself if he has more info on this case? What say you sir? Drew Williamson P.S. Errol, could you send me Mr. Brookesmith's E-mail address? Ta. [Perhaps, Peregrine, The Duke of Mendoza, Grand Abbott, Silent Order of Squirrel Fryers, Draftsman of the Apocalypse, might find the time twixt tending to his stable and the control of weaponry to respond? - ebk] ============================================================================= THE WILTSHIRE SHADOWS Triangular objects and an invisible light TYPE: Daylight disk PLACE: Chisbury, Wiltshire, England DATE: 8 April 1912 BACKGROUND Charles Tilden Smith reported the following case to the respected British science journal Nature. THE EVENTS For over half an hour Smith observed two fan-shaped or triangular 'heavy shadows' cast onto clouds overhead. The clouds were moving rapidly, but the shadows remained stationary in the sky. From time to time the unidentified apparitions varied in size. Smith concluded that two large unseen objects in the west were inter cepting the Sun's rays. ASSESSMENT If the Sun had been the light source that the objects were intercepting, then the shadows should have moved higher on have been a separate light (which Smith did not see) maintaining a constant position in the sky. The changes in size were probably caused by shadows falling at different angles on the cloud surfaces. Which does not explain the objects or the light source.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Southern Florida MUFON? From: Mary Helen Corrado <mcorrado@jetlink.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 19:54:15 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:52:24 -0500 Subject: Southern Florida MUFON? CAN ANYONE HELP US! PLEASE READ NOTE AND RESPOND WITH FLORIDA MUFON INFO IF AVAILABLE! THANKS!! Mary Helen Corrado MUFON Vta/SB Counties mcorrado@jetlink.net Hi. Last night KNBC-TV in Los Angeles aired footage of a UFO in Florida. This craft, and smaller spin-off craft(s) apparently resembled the footage obtained by Ventura/Santa Barbara MUFON investigators, of a craft that has been regularly appearing in that area of California. I would like to contact the FL MUFON people to obtain pictures, video and whatnot for comparison with the California pictures, and to obtain written descriptions of the craft's behavior. I visited the MUFON links page and there was no link there for the Florida group. I suppose they may not have a web site. If you do have an email address, or even regular mail address for the group, I would be most grateful.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:52:54 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:47:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > From: RSchatte@aol.com > Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:26:11 -0500 > To: UpDates@globalserve.net > Subject: Fwd: Response to article in Strange magazine > --------------------- > Forwarded message: > From: 76750.2717@CompuServe.COM (BOB SHELL) > To: BlindCopyReceiver@, @ > Date: 97-01-02 13:54:47 EST Rebecca, thanks for posting this message by Bob Shell. Apparently Mr. Shell is still going to great extent to promote a story that has no genesis and no provenance, not to say anything about no cameraman and no real film available for analysis. > Claims by Ed Stewart and others that only Berlyn Brixner photographed the > Trinity atomic test have been shown to be incorrect. Brixner was one of four > _civilian_ photographers. However, there may have been military photographers > as well unknown to Brixner and the other civilians. This is nothing but a ruse on Shell's part. This has been beaten over and over again. There was only one photographer authorized to take the pictures of the Trinity test. That was Brixner. Julian Mack, who was Brixner's boss, was scheduled to also take authorized photographs but he left his camera uncovered overnight. It rained and when he turned the camera on before the event, the power supply blew up. Brixner's expertise was in technical photography. He was also responsible for the engineering effort necessary to develop cameras that would take film at 10,000 frames per second and which also were required to be perfectly synchronized with the remainder of the scientific record for later examination and analysis. When one considers that the Trinity blast was one of the utmost important scientific experiments of all time requiring the utmost in precision, coordination and efficiency, which had to work the first time with no repeats allowed, does anyone seriously considers that the Army would bring in someone barely two years out of Army photography school to record the event? Were there other photos taken? Yes. They were unauthorized and confiscated by the military. Jack Aeby, one of the photo-takers, was not even at Trinity. He was at the base camp at the time. All unauthorized snap shots were confiscated by the military after the Trinity test. I am surprised that Bob Shell didn't mention Harold Argo's photography. He was a fifth person that got a snapshot of Trinity. He was camped out at Chupadero Peak the night of the event. When he returned to Los Alamos, his film was also confiscated. > "Jack" does not say in his > story that he photographed the Trinity test, just "Trinity". Pure, unadulterated hogwash from Mr. Shell. The original cameraman's story posted to the internet at the WWW site ROSWELL CENTRE back in 1995 as "My Story" by Ray Santilli stated: Para. 4 "The Cameraman was in his eighties seemed a genuine enough person, he explained that from 1942 to 1952 he worked as a cameraman for the Army Airforce and special forces, that during this time he was sent to many places and filmed many events including the tests that were part of the Manhattan Project (Atomic bomb testing White Sands)." and from a copyrighted message attributed to 1995 Roswell Footage LTD./Bob Shell LTD. entitled "The Cameraman's Story Revised Version With Notes By Bob Shell" the following was stated and described as an "exact transcription of tape recorded statement" by the _autopsy cameraman_ as credited above: Para 4: "I will not give more detail on my background: only to say that in the fall of 1944 I was assigned to Intelligence, reporting to the Assistant Chief of Air Staff. I was moved around depending on the assignment. During my time I filmed a great deal, including the tests at White Sands (Manhattan project/Trinity)." Not only does "Jack" say he filmed the TRINITY TEST in both versions above, one by Santilli, the other by Shell, but he says he filmed the TESTS. Folks, there was only ONE, I repeat ONE test at Trinity, not more than one. Obviously, whoever "Jack" is, he was not aware that there was only ONE test at White Sands. [SNIP] Much gratuitous interchange of terminology referring to film when it suits Mr. Shell and to video when it suits Mr. Shell, even though there is no film that has ever been made available for independent analysis. > I think the UFO community has done itself a serious disservice by > not paying more attention to this film and simply dismissing it as a fraud. > Bob Shell Until such time that real film is presented for analysis and not generational copies made from video, the entire matter should be regarded as fraud perpetrated to exploit the gullibility of the UFO community. And the people that have been promoting it should be considered as willing participants in the promotion of fraud. Any claim where the claimants are not willing to provide the necessary genesis and provenance to establish the validity of the claim should be regarded as false when confronted with conflicting evidence that has genesis and provenance established. And such claims should not be the focus of research until such time that the genesis and provenance of the claim is established by the claimants. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Daily Science News! From: Helios Science News <dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 01:50:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 09:33:49 -0500 Subject: Daily Science News! Greetings! I am pleased to announce that Helios - Daily Science News - has reached a fully operational state. If you have not done so, please vist Helios at: http://www.helios.org/ Here you will find: * Science News updated each and every day * Specific topic areas for easy location of information you want * Randomly chosen science pictures and top websites * Comprehensive rated science website directories We would appreciate it greatly if you mentioned Helios to others so that they may also benefit from the latest news from the fascinating world of science! If you operate a website, we are now offering an informal banner exchange to benefit both yourself and Helios. For more information on this, please visit: http://www.helios.org/webmaster.html Thanks for your time! David Watanabe Helos Administrator http://www.helios.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Southern Florida MUFON From: Charles Manetta <cmanetta@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 05:44:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 09:35:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Southern Florida MUFON Mary Helen: Good morning! It is 5:30 AM here and I am on my way out to work. I read your plea for help and wanted to reply. I am a member of that Southern Florida Group. The people involved in the sighting that you were interested in are all my friends. I am not sure if they are online with Email yet, but if not, maybe this might be the impetus. The person that you want to get in touch with is: Mary Margaret Zimmer, SSD FI 9925 S.W. 68 St. Miami, FL 33173 xxx-xxx-xxxx Mary Margaret is the Section Director for MUFON in this area and will gladly assist you with your endeavor. I will personally hand a hard copy of your broadcast to her this morning on my way to work and she will be expecting your contact. Seasons Greetings! Chuck Manetta cmanetta@worldnet.att.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Old UFO case From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 04:30:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 09:34:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Old UFO case >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:29:33 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> >Subject: Old UFO case >Question for some of the historians on the list. I'm looking for an article >in the April 8, 1912, issue of "Nature", detailing a triangular UFO case >known as the "Wiltshire Shadows" case. That's not a typo -- it was really >1912. Anybody have any info? Thanks in advance. One of the biggest archive facilities in the world just happens to be a few miles from my home in East Leeds here in West Yorkshire. I was seeking a particular document anyway so took the opportunity to enquire about "Nature" magazine on your behalf. Here are the results: The British Library has all issues of "Nature" magazine from 1869 onwards. You can request a particular copy through your local library (takes a week) or reserve a time to pour over the material in the READING ROOM (no charge) at: The British Library, Thorpe Arch, Nr Wetherby, LS23 7BQ. Tel: 01937 546000 To guarantee that you don't make a wasted trip, you can contact the READING ROOM direct on: 01937 546070 (they can tell you if they have the particular document/magazine/book available) There may be a small charge if you obtain the relevant copy of "Nature" through your local library, especially for photo-copies. Trust this helps you to find what you seek. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Media Alert Delayed From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 05:29:31 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 09:37:36 -0500 Subject: Media Alert Delayed Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED January 3, 1997 This ain't your usual media alert... I'm going to make every effort to get it out so that people on the American East Coast will have it in time for Saturday. However, several things have combined to make it difficult this time, some of them wonderful! First, I love my wife, I love my wife, I love my wife, I love my wife, I love my wife, I love my wife, I love my wife, I love my wife, I love my wife (it was our ninth wedding anniversary last night). Second, we all stayed up on New Year's Eve so my almost seven-year old could see it come in (actually, she fell asleep for a couple of hours and we woke her up at 11:30). Third, we went through major computer up-grade work (which still isn't completed...). Fourth, we seem to have a leak in one of the "unnamed rooms which contain a shower and another water-using fixture". It's big enough that we (gasp) are going to try and do something about it ourselves, and when...if that fails, we'll have to get someone who plumbs (otherwise known as a plumber). Fifth, I'm working on my much-requested (well, occassionally-requested) website, which should be up by the end of the month I'd say. Sixth, I have some very exciting other opportunities, which I'll tell you about as they become more real. Seventh, my TV GUIDE hasn't come yet (it's usually here by Thursday night, which is when I normally do this...sometimes supplemented by Friday morning). I place a high priority on getting this out...there are reportedly more than 10,000 people a week who get it (I say reportedly, because I rely on what some of the distributors say). Even though it would matter to me strongly if there was just one, that adds up to a lot of mattering. Still, I'm sure you'll understand that my family always comes first. Bufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 00:43:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 09:36:40 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence > Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 11:23:47 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >OK. I'll bite? What's Drake's background? > >Greg Sandow > Frank Drake was born in Chicago on May 28, 1930 to Richard and > Winifred Drake. Raised in Chicago's South Shore with sister, > Alma, and brother, Robert, he had a fairly typical childhood. > Always interested in science, he and his friends would spend > hours experimenting with motors, radios, and chemistry sets. As > his understanding of astronomy and the actual size of the > universe grew he began to wonder about the possibility of the > existence of other planets and life on those planets. The idea > seemed reasonable to him. However, because of the religious > convictions of his parents and teachers he never felt comfortable > bringing up the subject of extraterrestrial life. > After high school Drake enrolled at Cornell on an ROTC > scholarship to study electronics. It was here that he fell in > love with astronomy and finally found someone else who was > considering the possibilities of life on other planets. > In 1951, during his junior year he attended a lecture by Otto > Struve, one of the world's preeminent astrophysicists. Towards > the end of a lecture Struve showed that there was mounting > evidence that planetary systems had most likely formed around > half of the stars in the galaxy. Struve went on to state that > life could certainly exist on some of those planets. Finally, > Drake had found someone who shared his ideas. > After college he spent the next three years with the Navy to > repay his scholarship. Thanks to his electronics degree he ended > up as the electronics officer on the USS Albany where he gained > invaluable experience operating and fixing the latest high tech > electronic equipment. > When his Navy tour ended, Drake headed to Harvard graduate school > to study optical astronomy. Fortunately, the only summer position > available was in radio astronomy. Because of his electronics > experience in the Navy he was a natural fit because the radio > astronomy equipment was constantly in need of tweaking and > repair. Drake got hooked on radio astronomy and never looked > back. > Upon finishing graduate school in 1958 he got a position at the > newly founded National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in > Green Bank, West Virginia. It was here in 1960 that the first > search took place. Named Project Ozma by Drake, the search was a > two week observation of the stars Tau Ceti and Epsilon Eridani. > At one point during the search a false alarm, which turned out to > be a terrestrial signal, caused some excitement. Other than that > no signals were detected. Hardly expecting to find evidence of > advanced civilizations on the first try the searchers were not > disappointed by the result, but were encouraged because the > search had finally begun. > In 1961 Drake and J. Peter Pearman, an officer on the Space > Science Board of the National Academy of Sciences, organized the > first SETI conference. The three day meeting, held at the NRAO, > was a small gathering of a dozen or so scientists who had shown > an interest in SETI. It was in preparation for this conference > that Drake came up with the now famous Drake Equation: > N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL > The purpose of the equation was to help focus the conference > attendees' attention on the crucial questions that needed to be > answered in order to determine the chances of SETI's success. > (Try your own hand with the Drake Equation. Choose your best > guess for each variable and see how many communicating > civilizations there are in the galaxy. Click here.) > In 1963 Drake took a short-lived position at the Jet Propulsion > Lab and later that year he took a position at Cornell's Center > for Radiophysics and Space Research. Two years later he accepted > the directorship of the Cornell run Arecibo Observatory in Puerto > Rico. > Drake and his family returned to Cornell in 1968. > http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/biography_drake.html That is the standard public relations piece and only scratches the surface. What you have to look into is his service as a "electronics officer"; his Harvard astronomy connections, the NRAO project at Greenbank; who funded Franks research; how and why Struve was brought into the project; why shoudl there be multiple explanations for the "false alarm"; why was SETI militarized and moved to Puerto Rico. I have explored some aspects of the above and welcome any input on the above issues. I have a draft version of an essay I started on and had put on the backshelf which wasn't prepared for distribution. First I have to find it on my computer, then clean it up and finish it. There was a death in my family last night so I doubt I'll get it done for a couple of weeks. Apologies also to others on the list to which I should be responding. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Drake's Equation From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 16:25:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 10:06:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 major factors in determining the distribution of intelligent life on earth. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Jan 97 09:23:25 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 10:05:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article Response to Ed Stewart. Please circulate. Thanks for forwarding Mr. Stewart's "response" (really an uncalled-for personal attack) on to me. I have no idea who Stewart is or what his credentials are or why he has taken such an intense dislike to me. Nothing Stewart says in this latest rant has anything to do with what I said, which is that Brixner and his associates, as well as Harold Argo were civilians. If the military was also conducting classified photography of the site/test, they would not have known. Yes, I know about Argo, and have an interview with him as well as a copy of his pretty spectacular photo. He mentions nothing about it being confiscated, and still had it when interviewed. I suggest that Mr. Stewart read "Jack's" statement over again. He does not say that he filmed the Trinity test. He only says "the tests at White Sands". In other communications he says he filmed from the air. Aerial photos of Trinity do exist, but the photographer(s) are not identified. He may have filmed the Trinity test from the air, or he may have filmed the site prior to or after the test. I do not believe that the film is a fraud. And I strongly resent being accused of being party to a fraud. I stand on my statements. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 15:55:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 10:04:18 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence Greg Sandow: Frank Drake got his BS in Electrical Engineering and then spent about 3 years in the navy working on electronic countermeasures which clearly required a high security clearance. He then went to Harvard and eventually got his PhD related to radiotelescope astrophysics work. He stayed in the Navy Reserve for at least 10 years. Menzel was head of Navy Reserve Communications Unit Number l in Cambridge during that time frame. Drake would have spent time in the summer working for USN in classified high tech areas. Sagan for example was never in the military. Drake like Menzel had a strong engineering background relating to the real world. Menzel had a TOP SECRET Ultra clearance from the CIA and did all that work for the CIA, NSA, etc as described in TOP SECRET/MAJIC. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:53:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 10:17:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs In a message dated 97-01-02 09:42:02 EST, John Powell wrote: << I have no idea why SETI makes the assumptions it does. Why do they consider a signal 'good' only if its the _SAME_ signal coming from the _SAME_ place more than once??? Does that make sense? Do we broadcast the _SAME_ signal day after day? >> Yes, they're called reruns, and the networks are broadcasting them more often because it's cheaper than making new shows... or they're called syndication which means that we are still broadcasting the signals of Gilligan's Island. Think about that. Do we really want an alien civilization to get their first impressions of us from reruns of Gilligan's Island and Laverne and Shirley. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Drake's Equation From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 11:26:41 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 13:17:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation Stan Friedman said; >Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it >totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 >major factors in determining the distribution of >intelligent life on earth. Seem's feasible to plug that in. Better yet, use the Drake Equation as a starting element for a Fibonocci series. In fact, lot's of them. I'd call it a sphereactal who's center is everywhere. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 11:35:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 13:14:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article Bob Shell said; >I do not believe that the film is a fraud. And I strongly resent being >accused of being party to a fraud. I stand on my statements. "I stand on my statements" Your statments? Seems to me you are standing on Santilli's and others statments. From whince does the veracity of _your statments_ attain their worthiness? ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 3 Solar System's Best-Outfitted Spacecraft Dons Its From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:34:58 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 13:16:01 -0500 Subject: Solar System's Best-Outfitted Spacecraft Dons Its Douglas Isbell January 3, 1997 Headquarters, Washington, DC (Phone: 202/358-1753) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Mary Beth Murrill Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 97-1 SOLAR SYSTEM'S BEST-OUTFITTED SPACECRAFT DONS ITS THERMAL CLOAK Using tools and techniques more often associated with fine tailoring than with space engineering, NASA technicians spent part of the holiday season laboring over sewing machines to clothe the Cassini spacecraft in the protective garb it must wear to survive during its long journey to Saturn. At NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA, a unique team of spacecraft shielding technicians are still cutting, stitching and fitting shiny gold-colored and black blankets onto the three-story-tall spacecraft in a clean room near the Lab's testing facilities. The work requires a unique combination of meticulous old world skills and high-tech materials to produce the finely sewn, super-strong and extremely lightweight thermal blankets that will protect Cassini from the extreme hot and cold of deep space. Though it appears to be gold foil covering the spacecraft, the shiny gold coloring of Cassini's blankets is due to the combination of a transparent layer of amber- colored material on top of a reflective aluminized fabric. "Our blankets are built unlike any others," said Mark Duran, supervisor of the "shield shop" that provides the space survival gear for JPL's spacecraft and instruments. Using industrial sewing machines, brown butcher paper patterns and large cutting tables, Duran's team is working split shifts to finish the blankets in preparation for Cassini's move into JPL's thermal vacuum chamber next week. There, the finished spacecraft will be tested in an artificial space environment. Spacecraft blankets are built for long-term durability and high thermal requirements. "Our goal in blanketing Cassini is to keep temperatures onboard the spacecraft at room temperature," said Pamela Hoffman, a thermal requirements engineer who is managing the blanketing of Cassini. In space, temperatures on the unblanketed portions of the spacecraft will range from about -364 to +482 degrees Fahrenheit (about -220 to +250 degrees Celsius). All the fabrics used in the blankets must withstand the extreme radiation environment of space and protect the spacecraft for the duration of Cassini's 11-year mission. The blankets also provide protection against micrometeoroids - the dust grains of rocky debris that litter space. Some of Cassini's blankets are sewn with layers of a canvas-like, carbon-coated fabric called beta cloth that is especially effective in protecting against micrometeoroids. For Cassini, the blankets consist of as many as 24 layers of different fabrics, including aluminized Kapton, mylar, Dacron and other special materials. The blankets also have to meet tough electrical standards. At both Earth and Saturn, Cassini will be traveling through environments full of charged particles that could cause an electrical arc to form across the blankets, Duran said, "so a lot of work goes into making sure every single layer of each blanket is electrically grounded." Thin, accordion-like strips of aluminum are carefully sewn in to each blanket to prevent electrical arcing. Cassini, the most sophisticated planetary spacecraft ever built, is scheduled to be launched on October 6, 1997, on a Titan IV/Centaur booster from Cape Canaveral, FL. Its voyage to Saturn will take nearly seven years. Once it reaches Saturn on July 1, 2004, Cassini will enter orbit around the planet and study Saturn, its rings and moons for four years. It will also release a probe to parachute a payload of scientific instruments through the atmosphere and to the surface of the large moon Titan. More information on the Cassini mission is available on its Internet home page is at: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cassini The Cassini mission is a joint project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. JPL manages the mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. -end- Images to illustrate this release are available to news media by contacting the Headquarters Imaging Branch at 202/358-1900. The photo numbers are 97-HC-6 and 97-HC-7.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: UFO Military/Government Witnesses From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 09:20:58 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 07:50:01 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Military/Government Witnesses Dr. Steven Greer's posting, announcing the expiration of the period for federal protest of his plan to convene military witnesses to retrievals of UFOs and occupants, is most welcome. Now that he has obtained implied consent from the President, the Director of Central Intelligence, and the Chairs of the Senate and House Intelligence Committees to have these witnesses speak, Project Starlight can go forward with facilitating either Congressional Hearings, a U.N. presentation, or a world press conference televised globally. I applaud his efforts, and look forward to the emergence of the truth about UFO reality and ET presence this year. Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 12:32:13 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 07:51:53 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence Greg Sandow said, quoting Drake's own conclusion; >> "We've reached a conclusion," I said. "Our best estimate is that >> there are somewhere between one thousand and one hundred >> million advanced exterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way." > Quite a margin for error, wouldn't you say? What is the margin of error for: infinity/2 ? ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 IUFO: LOBSTER 32: UFO Article From: Ndunlks@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 02:05:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 07:50:51 -0500 Subject: IUFO: LOBSTER 32: UFO Article Just catching up on some old mail and found this interesting . Steve L Wilson Sr --------------------- Forwarded message: From: deeaob@admin.itol.com To: (Mailing List)@emin30.mail.aol.com Date: 96-12-15 01:30:14 EST ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:18:01 -0800 To: deeaob@admin.itol.com From: "John Greenewald Jr." Subject: LOBSTER 32: UFO ARTICLE I was forwarded this letter the other day, and was told to circulate it. I thought it might be of interest to everyone on your list. John "UFOs and the Governments of the USA and UK" Armen Victorian Researchers who ask for pertinent records from the US Air Force about UFOs are provided with a "Fact Sheet" which states that since the closure of Project Blue Book in 1974, the USAF has no interest in, and does not study, the subject. The USAF information pack refers inquirers to various non-governmental UFO research organisations which are closely monitored, and, at times, directed by various US intelligence and military agencies [1]. THE MEN FROM THE MINISTRY In Britain, Air Staff 2(a), a desk in the Ministry of Defence, manned by junior civil servants such as Nick Pope, J. Palmer, Owen Hartop, Kerry Philpott, and Rolph Noyes, respond to public inquiries. The knowledge of these individuals is limited and their responses consequently sometimes inaccurate. Contrary to claims made by Air Staff 2(a) that they are privy to all UFO reports, there is a component within the MOD which deals with more serious aspects of this subject. On October 23, 1989, in the course of one of my investigations, I contacted this particular MOD section. After the preliminary conversation I was asked if I was prepared to sell my investigation report to them; and later on in the course of the conversation, when I suggested sharing information, citing the national security aspects, I was asked if I was prepared to sign a security agreement concerning this issue. I was further asked to prepare a proposal and submit it to them. When I inquired about some landing reports, I was asked to specify the date of the particular case I had in mind. Although this is a component of the MOD, it is not situated in Whitehall. Neither is it Defence Intelligence 55 (DI55), though sources within DI55 have been helpful in other investigations of mine. Though several individuals in the UK who have witnessed serious UFO cases have been visited by government officials, the MOD has repeatedly denied the existence of such officials. Sometimes in uniform but mostly in civilian clothes, these officials have approached witnesses asking them not to discuss what they have seen with the public or the media. UFO folklore has termed them the Men in Black (MIB). In fact the section in charge of such investigation is Aerospace Intelligence within the MOD. The MOD, and Air Staff 2(a) in particular, have been the chief focus of the search for British information on UFOs. But examination of the MOD's old files shows the absence of any Royal Navy reports. There is also a component within the Admiralty in charge of UFO cases reported at sea, about which researchers have little knowledge. I have also dealt with this component. HOW DOES THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TREAT UFOS? Due to its size the US Department of Defense (DOD) does not have a single unit to handle UFO reports. Apart from the many departments known to UFO researchers run from Pentagon, there is another component about which no public information is available. In the course of studying a serious UFO case from the former Soviet Union, I was advised by the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) staff in the Pentagon to coantact "Pentagon House"[2]. Located outside the Pentagon, Pentagon House showed immense interest and I was asked to provide them with the raw material I had. All the records made public under the UFO title are unevaluated reports gathered through various human intelligence means. These reports always quote the term UFO, as it has been relayed to them by the source. Mostly these sources are civilians, unaware of the current official terminology used by the US government. The US Government uses two main terms in compiling and studying the UFO subject: Uncorrelated Targets (UCT), for earth-bound unidentified objects, and Uncorrelated Event reports (UER) for space related events. I wrote to North American Aerospace Defense Command, NORAD, about their terminology. They replied: "Historically, the term UFO was used by the Air Force starting in 1947 and ending in 1974 with the shelving of the Blue Book project. We all know what the term UFO means, we just don't use it...The specific term "UFO" is not used by this command even though you could say that this term would equate to UTR [unknown track report], either an uncorrelated event or an unknown track, since an unidentified flying object could be considered either"[3]. Further, I was told, "Uncorrelated Events Reports (UERs) which are space related events on the United States Space Command (USSPACECOM) side of the house, are always classified SECRET"[4]. Uncorrelated Targets are categorised as: Significant UCTs, Nonsignificant UCTs, Critical UCTs, and False UCTs. [5]. Copies of any serious UCT events are sent to the Missions Systems Integration Board (MSIB). MSIB is composed of all NORAD and US Space Command directorates and senior level representatives from Naval Space Command, Army Space Command and Air Force Space Command.[6] The regulations governing the UFO topic is USR 55-12; "Space Surveillance Network (SSN) of June 1, 1992, classified by multiple sources. "This regulation provides policy and guidance for operations of the worldwide Space Surveillance Network (SSN). It applies to Headquarters US Space Command; the component commands, Headquarters Air Force Space Command; the Naval Space Command, and Army Space Command; the Space Surveillance Center (SSC), the Alternative Space Surveillance Center (ASSC); and the SSN sensors except RAF Fylingdales. RAF Fylingdales follows guidance specified in SR55-122/88771/1/GS(s), joint USAF/RAF Operations Manual (JOM) Ballistic Missiles Early Warning System (BMEWS) Site III, RAF, England".[7] In conjunction with this regulation exists US Space Command Regulation 55-20, Warning Verification of Hostile Space Events, dated 31 January 1990, classified secret. "This regulation establishes procedures to provide timely and accurate status reporting, warning and verification of hostile space events to National Command Authorities (NCA), collateral agencies, space system owners and operators, and defense forces from Headquarters, US Space Command, Space Defense Operations Center (SPADOC)". Although the US Space Command is the Office of Primary Responsibility (OPR)"...for records relating to Uncorrelated Targets..the evaluation [of reports are] made by the Command Director and the Air Defense Operations Center of Cheyenne Mountain Air Station on Unknown Track data"[8]. The Air Defense Operations Center (ADOC) is a NORAD entity.[9] Obtaining relevant records is a legal impossibility because while "the Aerospace Analysis Directorate [of US Space Command] does perform analysis on NORAD Unknown Track Reprts...they perform their analysis under the auspices of their NORAD role, utilising dedicated NORAD data base" - and NORAD is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act [10]. All Unknown Track Reports (UCTs) are recorded on NORAD's Form 61, and kept for five years. Data from these files, in summary form, is sent to all relevant government agencies on a need-to-know basis. [11] During the period January to August 1996 NORAD reported 23 Unknowns, some after scrambling interceptor fighters. For example, between January 2 and Feb. 12 there were three scramble attempts, for three events. In two instances two F15s were scrambled and the subjects could not be identified. Similarly, on Feb. 10, two F16s were scrambled but failed to identify the object [12]. NORAD commented, "Normally 80% of NORAD unknowns are identified. The remaining 20% continues to be called unknown and no further action is taken [13]. Another category of reports come from USAF personnel. These reports might be generated by using the International Urgency Signal PAN, or ground relay of airborne reports or post-landing reports using FLASH procedure, and are governed by Communication Instructions Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings (CIRVIS). These reports are maintained in places such as Tyndall Air Force Base (1st Air Force), Elmendorf Air Force Base (11th Air Force) and NORAD's Canadian headquarters in Ontario, Canada. These reports are compiled in accordance with the Air Force Manual, where it states; "Report the following specific sightings: *Hostile or unidentified aircraft which appears directed against the United States, Canada, or their forces. *Missiles. *Unidentified Flying Objects. *Hostile Flying Objwects. *Hostile or Unidentified military surface missiles or submarines"[14]. As to any specific terms adopted by NORAD in the course of pilot/radar control communication exchange for UFOs, the answer is "Unknown Track"[15]. I asked NORAD if the recovery of downed UFOs was within their jurisdiction - if so which particular teams, or components deal with it? If not, which other particular teams or components, and from which command has such authority? The answer was; "We do not deal with down unknowns, which you refer to as UFOs. Normally, local law enforcement officials and/or security personnel from the nearest military installation get involved with downed aircraft, etc. until positive identification is made. Then the vehicle is turned over to its primary agency and/or organisation". In contrast to the MOD's repeated assertion that UFOs are not considereda threat to national security, for the US Government "all unknown tracks are considered a possible threat until proven otherwise"[16]. NORAD informed me that although there are no British forces assigned to NORAD facilities, "the British Ministry of Defence does interface and cooperate with NORAD and the United States Space Command (USSPACECOM), on military space systems as they provide support to the warfighter"[17]. Although "there are no NORAD facilities outside the Continental United States (CONUS) and Canada...NORAD does receive classified data from Engalnd"[18]. END References to follow. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Vault http://www.primenet.com/~greeney/ufo.html Government Conspiracy involving "Flying Saucers" from beyond our imaginations? Some say 'YES!' and others say 'NO WAY!'. Well in this vault, you will find more then enough proof to make up your mind on UFOs and the alleged government conspiracy. All documents were obtained through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). These documents are all 100% real... straight from the government. -----------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Drake's Equation From: SGBConsult@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:50:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 07:53:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation In a message dated 97-01-03 10:08:16 EST, you write: > Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it > totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 > major factors in determining the distribution of > intelligent life on earth. > > Stan Friedman Which brings up an interesting thought: It has been decades since the Drake equation was first put on paper. Given the accumulation of evidence in the fields of astronomy, physics and ET Phenomenon research, isn't it time for this equation to be "formally and publicly" restructured from scratch and recalculated based upon input from the most respected researchers operating in these fields. Steve Bassett SGBConsult
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 15:11:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 07:52:43 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence Stan Friedman enlightens me: >Frank Drake got his BS in Electrical > Engineering and then spent about 3 years in the navy > working on electronic countermeasures which clearly > required a high security clearance. He then went to > Harvard and eventually got his PhD related to > radiotelescope astrophysics work. He stayed in the > Navy Reserve for at least 10 years. > Menzel was head of Navy Reserve Communications > Unit Number l in Cambridge during that time frame. > Drake would have spent time in the summer working > for USN in classified high tech areas. Sagan for > example was never in the military. > Drake like Menzel had a strong engineering > background relating to the real world. Menzel had a > TOP SECRET Ultra clearance from the CIA and did all > that work for the CIA, NSA, etc as described in > TOP SECRET/MAJIC. Thanks, Stan. So you're saying Drake retained official or unofficial government/military/intelligence connections? Any thoughts on how that would have affected his SETI work? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Project 1947 - 5001st Composite Wing From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:24:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:54:42 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 5001st Composite Wing The following excerpt is from the History of the 5001st Composite Wing, Ladd Air Force Base, Alaska for July to December 1952, Operations and Training chapter: Intelligence Section on page 46: "Unidentified Flying Objects "Five (5) reports of unidentified objects were received by this section in the month of December. Due to the many conflicting directives dealing with the reporting of unidentified objects, a proposed Tactical SOP was drawn up by the Intelligence Section and presented to the AC/S Operations. (18) This SOP covered all types of reports and procedures therefor, thus eliminating duplication and establishing a coordinated system from reporting vital intelligence sightings. "Project Pinball "With Site F-9 going into operation in December, Project Pinball was established for the purpose of analysis of unidentified activity as reported by this Site. The Intelligence Section was charge with the successful accomplishment of this project which consists of preparing daily track studies, graphic presentation, and reporting periodically to the Commanding Officer." Footnote: "18. ACS/Ops & Trng Historical Report, Oct-Dec 52, SECRET, LAFB Hist Sec Files." This document was classified SECRET. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Southern Florida MUFON? From: Mary Helen Corrado <mcorrado@jetlink.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 21:07:12 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:55:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Southern Florida MUFON? Thanks to Errol and UFO Updates, we have been able to contact the Florida MUFON Group. We are continuing to have sightings in Ventura County including today, January 3, 1997. We have new video and still photos we are having analyzed. We are exchanging copies of the videos with the Florida group. Hopefully, with our combined efforts, we can shed some light on this interesting dual, cross-country sighting!! Mary Helen Corrado MUFON VTA/SB Counties
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Drake's Equation From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 03:22:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:58:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 16:25:13 -0400 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Drake's Equation > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it > totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 > major factors in determining the distribution of > intelligent life on earth. > Stan Friedman Must be sheer coincidence <grin>. Funny Dr. Drake should omit these significant factors; well documented throughout the history of mankind. They have even been hashed and rehashed in the science fiction literature for nn number of years. I think it is fair to posit that the omission of these factors does not spring from the lofty ideals of science. Could Dr. Drake have a hidden agenda? Even non-interstellar space faring societies (such as ours) early on recognize the need for migration to other planets which could be necessitated for example by in the short term, by bodies impacting their home planet or in the long term by extinction of their home star. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 03:00:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:57:16 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:24:24 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > References: <2.2.32.19970101180102.006dbe38@mail.globalserve.net> > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > Subject: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > > > > A classic example is Donald Menzel's "explanation" of the famous > > > > New Guinea case. > > > It was apparent then and its very apparent today that Menzel relied > > > on science only rarely when trying to explain (away) UFO sightings. > > > It wasn't known then and it is known now that Menzel worked for the > > > CIA at the time and was almost certainly doing what he did to assist > > > the goals expressed by the Robertson Panel. > > Some of the anomalous statements and behaviour of the scientists > > performing SETI research made me wonder if there was another instance > > of Menzelian science being performed. > There probably are other examples, I'd be surprised if there weren't. > Science politics is a heated competition of ideas. Menzelian science is my polite way of saying psychological warfare, disinformation, prevarication elementary tools of counterintelligence not generally the methods of science politics. > > If biographical research of the sort which Stanton Friedman performed > > so rewardingly with Menzel interests you, take a look at background of > > Frank Drake. > I'm not at all familiar with his background. Location, location, location they say is the one of the most important factors in real estate. Communications, communications, communications is similarly important in intelligence operations if there is or will be contact with extraterrestrials where might you place your key people? > > Why should anyone think that the subtrefuge performed by Menzel ended > > with his retiring from the ufo field and or his death? > > Is it rational or logical to assume that the intelligence community's > > activities in this field were staffed by that one person and the > > operation and functions he performed stopped when he retired? There > > is no basis for this assumption based on the Robertson/Durant report. > No basis at all. I'm sure there are other such examples. We know, for > instance (without even invoking the CIA), that the military has policies > for official tactical deception. That's the actual name of the USAF's > such policy. > The Robertson/Durant net result, that we don't want Americans freaked > out by UFOs (for various reasons) was good. I don't mean 'good' as in > right, I mean that it made sense at the time. Today we obviously don't > have that problem. Why not? An interesting value judgement. What assumptions went into your judgement that the net result was good or made sense at the time? Who are the "we" you refer to? Gary Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Project 1947 - 1947 Japanese Sighting From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?Zm92XzQzNjIxMDAwMQ==?= Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:42:38 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:56:14 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 1947 Japanese Sighting Osaka, Japan, January 1, 1997. Jun-Ichi Takanashi, Chairman Japan UFO Science Society (JUFOSS) C.P.O. Box No.1437, Osaka, 530-91, Japan. Dear Jan, Thank you for your kind welcome message. Here is my New Year's present to you all!: A UFO Sighting in July 1947 in Japan By Jun-Ichi Takanashi, Chairman On the first day of the already half-a-century-old UFO Mystery, June 24, 1947, I was a science teacher in a junior high school in Osaka, Japan. Kenneth Arnold's sighting was reported in Japanese newspapers, too, and as I had been keely interested in all the space-related problems, such as the construction of the Universe, the movement of the heavenly bodies composing it, and the physical conditions of each of those heavenly bodies, etc., as well as all the Mystery- related subjects, such as the Roch Ness monster, ghosts, apparitions, etc., I was naturally tremendously attracted by this news, as the newspaper report posed a very romantic implication,"Are They Visitors From the Space ?" As my family subscribed to the Mainichi Newspaper (Mai-nichi means <every day>), I saw this news in it, but as the school also subscribed to English language Japanese newspaper, <English Mainichi>, it contained a few more related news, such as the sighting in Hanshu, China and a doubledecked flying object sighting from Amsterdam, Holland. I also remember seeing another interesting news that the similar mysterious object had been sighted in the sky over Tokyo, during the severe B-29 bombing in WW II. Unfortunately, I have misplaced the clippings and I can not quote it here. Since that time, I have become keenly interested in this subject and began collecting all the materials concerning this facinating subject up to this date. But, even after I have established my present UFO research organization, I had never known any other worthwhile UFO sighting which occurred in Japan in the early part of UFO history.... until one of our members, Mr. Sukemichi Obashi, sent me a small pamphlet entitled, "Saiun" meaning <coloured clouds>, No.17, 1981. This publication was the members' journal of the Matsukuu-Koushu 14th Group, which means 14th Ko-class (Class A) Preparatory Flying Trainee Group of the former Matsuyama (place name) Navy Flying Corpse. These trainees were those young student flyers urgently enlisted during the latter part of the last war, known by the abbreviated name of <Yokaren>. According to our member who sent me this pamphlet, who was also a member of this group, "We were enlisted in the Matsuyama Flying Corpse on June 1, 1944, at the age of 15 - 20, and after three hours lessons every day about the flying, but without much training in flying, transfered to the Army Corpse. But fortunately none had died in the battle and could return home after the war. There are now many such groups of this kind, who are publishing similar kind of group journals, but this group is rather outstanding as they are publishing this journal three times a year regularly." Now, in this 68-pages pamphlet, which includes various essays, memoirs, etc., by various members of the group, there is one essay, entitled, "The Orange Glowing Object" by Soonosuke Martsuda, in which I found a very interesting UFO sighting in Japan in 1947. I will relay you the details of the sighting hereunder: Almost two years after the WW II, the defeated Japanese society was begining to regain its composture, when Matsuda, having reached 20 years old now, was living in a small village in Kyushu district of western Japan, named Iino-mura (mura means village), Kumamoto Prefecture, and on that day, he was on his way to the neighboring village of Takagi-mura, with two friends, as the friend there invited them to come as 'there are many nice girls'. Three were walking on the counrtry road, spreading out roadwide, singing various popular songs. It was a splendid nice evening with the clear moon, and stars shining brilliantly in the sky. Even each small stone on the road could be discerned in the bright moon light. Suddenly he noticed a strange light in the sky. It was an orange light in the size of a soybean and situated on the left of the moon. He stopped his walk and gazed at it.......10 seconds......20 seconds..... suddenly the orange light began to move and increasing its speed, began to proceed toward his direction. In 30 seconds, its size became bigger than the moon, and proceeded further toward him with the smooth motion but with no sound. The shape of the object became apparent now. It was shaped like a rugby ball in the horizontal position. And it appeared to be glowing in the transparent orange light, and having increased its brightness, it looked so beautiful, as if drawn in a picture, that he could not find the words to describe it. As he had had the specialized lessons about the aeroplanes of all kinds in his <Yokaren> days, he thought he had enough knowledge about the aeroplanes of U.S.A., England, France, Germany, and of course, Japan, etc., but this strange object was what he had seen for the first time in his life. Is it a meteor ? He questioned himself in his mind, but, no, not a meteor, he concluded. Then, is it a weather baloon lifted up from the weather station ? No, again, as there is no weather station in the vicinisty, and besides if it is a balloon, it is proceeding with the light of the moon on its back and can not be glowing so bright. As he was contemplating hard in such fashion, it increased its speed further and descended from the altitude of 5,000 meters to 3,000 meters and then to 1,000 meters, and became bigger and bigger, and became about 10 times bigger than the moon, and rushed toward him with the increased speed. As he was afraid that it would crash onto him, he was taking the defending position with his left hand and was still thinking hard in his brain what that object could be, judging from his past experiences. Many past experiences danced and run around in his brain. But he could not find any plausible explanation. He was thinking further, speculating as hard as he could. First of all, it is approaching in such a stupendous speed, but with no sound... and although the shape is very beautiful, ellipsoidal in form, but without any visible window, which he thinks necessary for the body of the flying object..... It is glowing so brightly but with no effect to the surrounding area..... All are so enigmatic and mysterious..... Finally it came down to the height of only about 700 meters above him, and its transparent orange light filled his eyes.... At that moment, a single-winged plane, which he thinks may have been a Bycount plane of the occupied forces at that time, appeared in the sky and approached in the direction of the moon with the propeller sound. Matsuda, who had been bracing himself in a big strain, glanced at its direction for a moment in spite of himself, when at that instant, the bright object suddenly changed its course, and began to distance itself from him, 1,000 meters.....3,000 meters..... and then 5,000 meters.... , just as if seen through a zooming lens.... At that moment, his two friends, who were walking in front of him, at last noticed him standing still in his step just as if totally absent-mindedly, and run back, crying, "What are you doing ?" "Don't you see that ?" Matsuda pointed out the object in the sky, but already nothing but the moon and the aeroplane flying slowly at the 2,000 meters altitude could be seen in the night sky. Just as if snearing him, who was repeating absent-mindedly, "See there ! You see .....", the shape of the orange glowng object became smaller and smaller, and having finally became the size of a soybean, disappeared at the left side of the moon. According to his two friends, it was only seveal minutes that he was standing still there, but in his own remembrance, it was like more than 30 minutes. Although he gazed further in the neighborhood of the moon, he could no longer see anything but the single-winged plane flying leisurely. Although later on, Matsuda insisted on the genuineness of his experience to his two friends, they wouldn't take it seriously and when he was speaking about it, they always looked at him as if he was affected by some bad dream. But, two days later, he read in the local newspaper, Kumamoto Nichinichi Shinbun (Kumamoto Daily News), which always reached him one day later due to the remote- ness of the place, that four or five persons, living in the neighboring districts of Tamana-gun and Kamoto-gun, observed the "strange object flying in the sky" at around the same time as he encountered the glowing object. As those places were more than 50 kms.distant from his sighting place, he speculated that the strange orange glowing object was a very big object. Of course, the word, "Flying Saucer" was not known at that time, and Matsuda says he had heard it only several years later. But, he says he can still not forget the time when the geometrically exact ellipsoidal object, glowing with the brilliant orange colour, approached him soundlessly with smooth motion, and finally filled his eyes on that day. [Afterwords] This person, who had experienced such outstanding sighting in such early days in Japan, is now living in Osaka, and engaged in the apparel manufacturing business. Beside the above experience, his essay contains three other equally strange experiences. In fact, when the glowing object approached him he recalled back those past experiences and compared it with them and sought to find the solution, as all of the other experiences also concerned with eerie glowing object or fire. Two of them concerned with what is called "Hitodama" in Japan, which means (as Hito means Human, and Dama means Soul) Human Soul, or rather Soul Light or Soul Fire, which is traditionally believed in Japan to appear when a man or a woman dies, slipping out of the body or slipping out of th tomb, and burns in an eerie cool blue fire. Historically there were many instances in which such fires were observed in the night flying away over the house where some one died there by the neighbors, or such fires burn in the cemetry. These may be specially observed phenomena in Japan and I have rarely heard the similar occurrences in the other countries. In modern times, scientists explain them as the burning of the sulphur resulting from the decompositon of the human bodies. But it has not yet been fully proved. And the more recent researchers speculate that they are the plasma vortex or the 'fireball', but it is also not yet proven either. Matsuda had had two such experiences before the above experience, and he compared those two experiences with this one in an effort to find the cause of the present one. But, the "Hitodamas" he experienced were in pale blue or in darkish red and quite different from the present one. So perhpas the different phenomenon. His third experience is what is called, "Kitsunebi" (Fox Fire) and is the phenomena in which many phantom lights appear in the distance when a person is walking late in the night on the deserted country road or in the lonely mountain area, and mislead him and make him lose the way, and then suddenly vanish leaving him in the totally unexpected places. But this glowing light is different from it, too, he concluded. From these past experiences, you may judge him as the ocult-prone or phantasy- prone person. But, on one of the occassions when he saw the "Soul Fire" from the second story window of his house, his father also saw the light and actually the old invalid man on the next door died on the next day. So, the story goes, and it is difficult for me to evaluate this experience now, and if you have any opinion on this case, I will be very much delighted to hear it. Best wishes.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Moon 'Photos'? From: Bob Shell <76750.2717@CompuServe.Com> Date: 03 Jan 97 16:10:02 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:33:27 -0500 Subject: Moon 'Photos'? Message sent to the most astute photographic experts I know and assorted other researchers: Ever hear of a fellow by the name of David Percy? He's ARPS as well as member of the British Industrial & Scientific Film Association according to his bio. He's written a piece in the January issue of Fortean Times (English mag, but sold on many US news stands) in which he purports to show that NASA's Apollo moon photos are studio fakes. Worth taking a look at, since the points he makes are quite valid and require explanation from NASA. Even though NASA says that the photos were taken in sunlight with no artificial light, he shows clearly that multiple light sources were used to make some photos, and either giant banks of lights or giant reflectors used in some (and clearly reflected in the faceplates of the helmets!!!!). In many the angles of the shadows just don't work for a point-source light at a great distance (the sun) which would produce parallel shadows. Here we have shadows at varying angles across the photos, triangulating on a light source just outside the picture area. Moreover, the reseau marks from the etched glass plate in the special Hasselblad cameras appear to have been artificially added to some images and actually appear to go BEHIND objects in the pictures! An actual camera with reseau plate never produces this effect. There are major discrepancies between TV video images and still images supposedly taken at, or near, the same time. The article is well worth a looksee. I'd value your opinion on these photos and his comments. Are we looking at a 27 year old hoax? Sure looks like it. Other than a studio setup, I can think of no explanation for the oddities in the lighting. We've known for decades that some Russian space photos were fakes, and now it looks as though NASA may have played the same game. Not that I doubt that astronauts actually went to the moon, but maybe their photos weren't good enough and NASA accordingly whipped up a batch in a studio somewhere. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 04:52:23 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:34:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:52:54 -0800 > From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > References: <2.2.32.19970102221512.0074f8fc@mail.globalserve.net> *Major Snip* > Until such time that real film is presented for analysis and not > generational copies made from video, the entire matter should be > regarded as fraud perpetrated to exploit the gullibility of the UFO > community. And the people that have been promoting it should be > considered as willing participants in the promotion of fraud. > Any claim where the claimants are not willing to provide the necessary > genesis and provenance to establish the validity of the claim should be > regarded as false when confronted with conflicting evidence that has > genesis and provenance established. And such claims should not be the > focus of research until such time that the genesis and provenance of the > claim is established by the claimants. > Ed Stewart Well said. Well said indeed. Kudos to you, Ed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Prof Stanley McDaniel's 'Cydonian Mound Geometry' From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:39:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:32:32 -0500 Subject: Prof Stanley McDaniel's 'Cydonian Mound Geometry' Hi, I would like to point everyone to a new page on Prof Stanley McDaniel's site : CYDONIAN MOUND GEOMETRY: A Closer Look http://www.mcdanielreport.com/geometry.htm I'm not copying & pasting it to e-mail since it is packed with photos and diagrams and just the words won't do it justice. Go and take a look! Regards, JJ Mercieca .-----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '-----------------------------------------------------' * MUFOR Web site: http://www.mufor.org/ * * TLP Database : http://www.mufor.org/tlp/lunar.html * * E-mail 1 : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * * IRC channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * * Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. * Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * * Postal Address: P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '-------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Master Sgt Bob Allen? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 97 00:06:14 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:37:56 -0500 Subject: Master Sgt Bob Allen? TO ALL LISTS. Dear Colleagues, Can anyone help me locate former Master Sgt Bob Allen. He is now believed to be living somewhere in Texas. Any help in locating him would be greatly appreciated. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle. el51@dial.pipex.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 CAUS & Vallee? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 97 00:32:29 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:38:52 -0500 Subject: CAUS & Vallee? TO ALL LISTS. Dear Colleagues, Can anyone help me obtain the phone/fax/e-mail of the UFO organisation CAUS and that of UFO researcher Dr Jacques Vallee. Any assistance with this request would be greatly appreciated. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle. 1 Woodhall Drive, Batley, West Yorkshire, England, WFl7 7SW. Tele/Fax: 01924 444049. E-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 'Alien Autopsy' Fake or Real? From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 97 02:32:07 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:39:49 -0500 Subject: 'Alien Autopsy' Fake or Real? Dear Colleagues, Although the SIGHTINGS TV show has taken a negative stance as far as the Santilli 'alien autopsy' film is concerned, a recent SIGHTINGS show broadcast in the UK showed that around 75% of the viewers of the show were of the opinon that the film was probably authentic and rebuked the show for taking such a negative stance. I would therefore like to try my own experiement and ask the subscribers here to see what their individual opinions are on the film. I would ask all subscribers to e-mail me with their own selection of the following: The Santilli 'alien autopsy' film is: A: A fake/hoax. B: Authentic/non-human. C: Authentic/disinformation. D: Authentic/deformed human being. E: Stiil to be proved fake or genuine. I will keep all of your names private in response to the above and will post the findings at a future date. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle. el51@dial.pipex.com _________________________ Perhaps UFO UpDates subscribers would like to Cc: their responses to the List here. As usual, if you don't want your answers posted to the List (I'll just add them to the tally) start the 'message body' with NOT FOR POSTING. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: The Anomalist From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Jan 97 08:45:26 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:50:50 -0500 Subject: Re: The Anomalist Greg wrote; [The anomalist] >> Probably she'd [Rebecca] second the opinion I have, which is that it's a damn fine piece of work. Intelligent, informed, and even literate. Dennis can be as shameless as he likes. He's entitled. << Also seconded, from the one I've been privy to see, briefly. Has anyone got subscription information? James D, ________________________ Let's see how long it takes the SA Sasquatch to respond to _this_ one! <G> (Oh, I _love_ the sound of the Casio Commisions Cash Register Chugging!<ROFL>) ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Drake's Equation From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 09:49:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:52:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation Steve Bassett writes: > It has been decades since the Drake equation was first put on paper. Given > the accumulation of evidence in the fields of astronomy, physics and ET > Phenomenon research, isn't it time for this equation to be "formally and > publicly" restructured from scratch and recalculated based upon input from > the most respected researchers operating in these fields. It still -- to me, at least -- seems so very speculative. We have no data to plug into it. Every number is, essentially, a guess. We might feel, and maybe even correctly, that our knowledge has advanced since Drake first put forth the equation, and that therefore we'll get a better result. But we don't know that for sure. And there's no way to verify whether our knowledge really is any better. In the last analysis, science knows absolutely nothing about the prevalance of intelligent life in the universe. (Note: I don't deny that there's all sorts of astronomical, chemical, and biological data that 'appears' to be relevant. Science has no hard information at all about other intelligent life. Scientists can't even prove it exists. That's what the statement in my last paragraph means.) Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 John Velez From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:26:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:51:45 -0500 Subject: John Velez John said some extraordinarily generous things about me in a post over a week ago. They were so generous, in fact, that I can't bring myself to quote them now. And, to tell the truth, I didn't know how to acknowledge him, or respond. I guess the truth is out (such a horrible truth): John and I are friends. Most people on this list, of course, won't have had the chance to meet him in person. I can only say that he's exactly as he appears to be here: Passionate, honest, smart, focused, and caring, intensely human, and, damn it, modest! He's one of the few people I've ever met who never seems to get carried away with his opinion of himself. As an abduction experiencer, he's a model of sanity. He knows, to the umpteenth decimal point, the difference between his personal belief that his experiences are real, and the lack of any scientific proof that this is so. If any of us could be half that objective on anything even a quarter so important, we'd be lucky. I say all this even though he's deserted me in the camp of long-haired men -- he cut his short not so long ago, rendering me speechless. He's also guilty of at least one act of credulity. Or was it? Once we had pizza near his house in Queens, New York, and he pointed out a storefront across the street. "That's John Gotti's social club!" he told me. I stared. Who could blame me? "DON'T LOOK AT IT!" he warned. Now, really, John...was I gonna get whacked just because I looked? But then, with John, you always have to ask: Does he know something that I don't know? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: UFO Military/Government Witnesses From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:05:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:55:34 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Military/Government Witnesses Despite much efforts and publicity made by Greer and company, and the obtained support - and despite the threatening tone in his forthcoming revelations, I do not expect anything significant to happen. Nor would there be any reaction, reflecting fear or annoyance either from the White House Administration, or the intelligence components. Greer and co. do not talk with the required language to influence the spheres they itemised as targets. Greer's attempt might win him a psychological coup in the ground level "ufological" domain - that's where the buck stops. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Drake's Equation From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:15:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:53:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation First Stan Friedman writes: > > Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it > > totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 > > major factors in determining the distribution of > > intelligent life on earth. And Glen Alevy responds: > Must be sheer coincidence <grin>. > Funny Dr. Drake should omit these significant factors; well documented > throughout the history of mankind. They have even been hashed and > rehashed in the science fiction literature for nn number of years. > I think it is fair to posit that the omission of these factors does not > spring from the lofty ideals of science. Could Dr. Drake have a hidden > agenda? I wouldn't form that conclusion myself. I've read pretty widely in the SETI literature, and Drake isn't alone in omtting these factors, or, for that matter, many others that might easily occur to any well-read, educated observer. Carl Sagan, for instance, argues that we couldn't possibly have even a fraction of the interstellar visitors UFO reports seem to suggest. (Am I allowed, a decent interval after his death, to say something critical?) In his book The Cosmic Connection, he offers an argument to that effect, based on guesswork about how many civilizations there are in the galaxy, and how many places they might decide are "interesting" to visit. He concludes that we could expect a visitor once every ten thousand years. But there are two elementary possibilities he doesn't consider. The first, and most obvious, is that people might be seeing the same craft over and over again. Or (a la Independence Day) we might have been visited by a huge "mother ship" that disgorges many smaller scouts. The second is that we might be located on the fringe of a densely populated sector of the galaxy. That makes us much more likely to be visited, I'd think, than if we sat in an empty galactic waste. Sagan assumes, without acknowledging the assumption, that all "interesting" places are equally likely to be visited, or in other words that visitors arrive more or less at random. That's hardly likely to be true. Generally, the SETI literature is marked by rabid lack of imagination. You can see this when the scientists involved speculate on exactly how an advanced alien race would differ from us. Drake, falling into a spectacular cliche, thinks advanced aliens might be immortal. Ronald Bracewell (who stands out among the SETI scientists because he's willing to believe that robot probes might travel the galaxy) wonders if alien women might go into heat just once a year, the way female animals do on earth. But these are relatively minor differences. What not one of the SETI scientists seems to have conceived are spiritual, emotional, or perceptual differences, of the kind that actually exist among cultures on earth. There are bigger differences between European, Tibetan, and Japanese culture than anything the SETI scientists have imagined might exist between alien races in different parts of the galaxy. (Even Paul Davies, who imagines that aliens might be more spiritual than we are, minimizes the actual difference by imagining that many of us might want to convert to their religion, in the unlikely event that they should visit. This assumes that their spirituality would be enough like ours to be comprehensible.) And as for really large differences, I offer two possibilities. One is from literature. Borges, the Argentian fantasist, has a lovely story about a planet whose language has no nouns. His fantasies are wonderfully cerebral. He speculates on the philosophy that would evolve in such a culture. They and we would find it almost impossible to converse. Everything we sense as static, they sense as process. His example, of one of their sentences: "Upwards, beyond the on-streaming, it mooned." (This means, in English: "The moon rose over the river.") My second example comes from a channeler, Lissa Royale. Laugh if you must, but I find one of her ideas astounding, and all the more so because I've never seen it suggested before, not even in science fiction. She believes she channels extraterrestrials. (Though when I've spoken to her about it, she's very modest, and says that she has absolutely no proof that she's in fact doing that.) In any case, one thing she's said is that the ETs don't have conscious and unconscious thoughts the way we do; they have conscious awareness of all their mental processes. Put aside the source of this speculation, if channeling bothers you. Consider it simply as an idea. It goes far, far beyond anything the SETI scientists have imagined, and suggests that communication with an alien race would be far more difficult than they've conceived. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 UpDate: BWW Media Alert 970104 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 07:53:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:54:32 -0500 Subject: UpDate: BWW Media Alert 970104 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) January 4, 1997 Thank you for your patience on this one, a day later than usual. I really appreciated the understanding notes I got. It also meant I did have a TV GUIDE to consult as well, although I do get most of my information from other sources. Often this is directly from the Producer of the material: if you have something for me to list, please let me know! The week on tv looks pretty good, with a new UFO series (UFOS - DOWN TO EARTH) on The Discovery Channel, a repeat of A&E's THE UNEXPLAINED first show, which is on UFOs (I've had some very good feedback on this from correspondents), and The Discovery Channel re-running PSI-FILES: THE REAL X-FILES (a nice piece on remote viewing). Let's get into it! FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Gil Latimer's excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http:\\www\cninews.com. This time, I'm going to start off with a book, PROJECT EPIPHANY by Richard J. Boylan, Ph. D. Boylan is well-known in the alien abduction field, and is author of the non-fiction CLOSE EXTRATERRESTRIAL ENCOUNTERS*. His notoriety comes in part from his positive take on abductions, as well as his legal difficulties. He calls this "...a novel-style scenario of highly-probably events to occur over the immediate future." A professional psychic and a cultural anthopologist get involved with the ETs "coming out", the secret intelligence group working on UFOs, and Native Americans. The book may be available through Greenleaf*: if not, call 800-551-5328. The Disney Channel has CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND at 8:35 pm on Saturday. Comedy Central has GHOSTBUSTERS II at 1:00 pm and 8:00 pm on Sunday. Showtime has MAGIC IN THE WATER, a lake monster film with Mark Harmon at 7:30 am on Monday and 5:15 am on Tuesday. BOOKS Richard Boylan, mentioned above, also has the non-fiction LABORED JOURNEY TO THE STARS available directly from him for $7.00. This is an anthology of seven papers about UFOs. His address is 2826 O Street, Stuie 2, Sacramento CA 95816. MAGAZINES (newsletters, etc.: periodicals, actually) FORTEAN TIMES: I've just received the Janaury issue of this, one of the two leading fortean mags (the other is STRANGE MAGAZINE...http://www.strangemag.com) that are not associated with organizations (does that cover me? :) ). The feature articles this time are: THEY RIP HORSES DON'T THEY? by Robert Irving (about horse mutilations, which the British call horse ripping); LEGION OF THE DAMNED by Geoffrey Bewley, about phantom armies; and DARK SIDE OF THE MOON LANDINGS by David Percy, which suggests that NASA faked the moon landing (you'd be surprised at the number of people who believe that, for various reasons. Brings to mind CAPRICORN ONE, which was a fictional movie that portrayed a faked Mars Mission. One of the actors playing the innocent crew? O.J. Simpson). Of course, FT also has their wonderful regular features: STRANGE DAYS, which is a round-up of happenings, which includes a UFO picture from Falkirk and a crying Madonna in Toronto (hey, those new parents can be emotional. Btw, this evangelical preacher tried to talk to Jesus the other day, but he said he was busy: he had his Mom on the other line...seems she was on vacation in Florida ((just kidding! You see, people have been seeing the Blessed Virgin Mary on the side of a financial institution in Florida, and ...never mind))); Loren Coleman discusses the Dover Demon case in ON THE TRAIL; Karl shuker writes about pottos, etc.; Patrick Harpur is in Forum with a piece about the difficulty of recalling weird happenings, as is Doc Shiels (a fascinating guy, who has...too long to go into here) on fairies and Paul Sheeton on ley lines and Jonathan Downes on mystery animals in Hong Kong. Add to that letters, reviews, ads and comics, and you have quite a package. Big bookstores will have it, or try http://www.forteantimes.com for more info. ON-LINE No details available, but check http://www.omnimag.com on Monday and select PRIME TIME to see who will be on there. Sunday at 10:00 they will have some folks' from MITs Norton Fishing Club, who look for Identified Flying Organisms in space...I'm not sure what that means, but I suspect it's little microbes (as opposed to the "big microbes" that some people claim are responsible for UFO sightings). RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website (at http://www.endoftheline.com). However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week, I hear. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: no details available PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --week of 12/30, a repeat with two "cases", one in which a skydiver believes he can really fly, and a small boy's nightmares may be telekinetically affecting his house --week of 1/6, in one case NASA scientists are found dead near a meteorite, and a mother and daughter are teleported (a word coined by Charles Fort) from California to Canada Saturday, January 4 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Director of National UFO Reporting Center Peter Davenport on TWA 800 and UFOs, among other things (delayed from an earlier date) 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: STRANGE SKIES (astronomical mysteries, including the Star of Bethlehem and canals on Mars) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, THE UFO INCIDENT (docu-drama based on the Betty and Barney Hill UFO abduction case, which was the first one to get wide publicity...stars James Earl Jones, and is quite good. It has been suggested that Travis Walton saw this when it was first on, and that it influenced him ((Walton doesn't think so))) 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, SCI-TREK, PSI-FILES: THE REAL X-FILES (about remote viewing...worth seeing, or far-seeing, I suppose) Sunday, January 5 9:15 AM, AMERICAN MOVIE CLASSICS, THE MIRACLE OF OUR LADY OF FATIMA (dramatization of the events in 1917 in Portugal, which are on the surface a giant crowd sighting a miracle (more than the "Mother Teresa cinnamon bun" at the Bongo Java coffee house this week), and which has also been likened to a UFO sighting (especially by Jacques Vallee) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4049), no details available...try http://www.scifi.com to get more info) 12:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, UFOS AND ALIEN ENCOUNTERS 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, UFOS VS. THE GOVERNMENT (I've heard good things about this one) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4049), no details available...try http://www.scifi.com to get more info) SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, debut of UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH, REASON TO BELIEVE (starting with the one that started the modern era and caused the term "flying saucer" to come into popular parlance in 1947) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, EXTREMELY WEIRD (Jay Thomas and a literally a talking head look at weird stories...this debuted on one of the broadcast networks) 10:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH: GREAT BALLS OF LIGHT (looks at the Persinger theory that "earth-lights" cause hallucinations) Monday, January 6 LOCAL RADIO: WBAI NY 99.5 FM, UFO Desk, host Paul Williams interviews Robert Morning Sky about comet Hale-Bopp, which is supposed to have a mysterious object following it...as the politicians are fond of saying, "No comet!" For more info, including ordering tapes, e-mail paul at paulw@escape.com. Tell him Bufo sent you. SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 1:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH (REASON TO BELIEVE) 2:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH (GREAT BALLS OF LIGHT) 9:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, ESSENTIALS: pet psychic, among other things (I think this is a teen-oriented program) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#51): no details available 10:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH, UNCOVERING THE EVIDENCE (UFO crash and retrievals, like the famous ROSWELL INCIDENT) Tuesday, January 7 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stationsa nd playtimes in your area) SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, PAT BULLARD (actually, I'm not sure if this is syndicated or local), psychic Stacey Anne Wolf among other people, including James Naughton, who played a werewolf...gee, is this a theme? 1:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH (UNCOVERING THE EVIDENCE) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#52): no details available 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SECRETS OF ANCIENT WORLDS 10:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH, DEEP SECRETS (are secret weapons the cause of some UFO sightings? And what about H-PACs ((Human-Piloted Alien Craft, wherein we fly recovered or reverse engineered flying saucers, an idea used in INDEPENDENCE DAY but not originating there))) Wednesday, January 8 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SECRETS OF ANCIENT WORLDS 1:00 AM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH (DEEP SECRETS) 1:00 PM, THE SCI FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES, AND MIRACLES (#1): ARE UFOS REAL?; QUI (CHI) GONG HEALING; THE MAGIC BEHIND WITCHCRAFT Thursday, January 2 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#2): NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES, NATURAL DISASTERS, and THE END OF THE WORLD (gee, what do you do for an encore?) 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: PSYCHIC DETECTIVES (including psychic evidence in court) 11:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED (PSYCHIC DETECTIVES) Friday, December 27 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#3): ANGEL ON MY SHOULDER; MOODY LIGHTS (a ghost light thing); and CALLING ALL SPIRITS (channeling...features an actual session) VIDEOS Abduction expert John S. Carpenter, MSW, LCSW (not the movie guy) has two noew videos out. One is on MULTIPLE PARTICIPANT ABDUCTIONS and the other is on ENCOUNTERS IN AUSTRALIA. They are each $29.95 plus $3.00 shipping and handling. I think Greenleaf* will probably have them. If not, get them directly from John at 4033 South Belvedere Court, Springfield, MO 65807 (please let him know I sent you). Other tapes at the same price from John include: THE FACE IN THE WINDOW; ALIENS CAPTURED IN BRAZIL (Carpenter, along with Stanton Friedman and garahm Birdsall go on the scene in Varginha); and PROFESISONAL WORKSHOP FOR RESEARCHERS AND HYPNOTHERAPISTS. This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *You can order the books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). Alternatively, you can mail your check or money order to: Greenleaf Publications P.O. Box 8152 Murfreesboro, TN 37133 U.S.A. Add $4 for the first item and $1 for each additional item for S&H in the U.S. My foreign correspondents should add $5 for the first one, $1.50 for each additional (plus $3 if shipped by air). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. Their website is http://www.debshome.com/glptitlepage.html ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 17:58:56 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:46:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? Bob Shell <76750.2717@CompuServe.Com> wrote : >The article is well worth a looksee. I'd value your opinion on these >photos and his comments. Are we looking at a 27 year old hoax? Sure looks >like it. Other than a studio setup, I can think of no explanation for >the oddities in the lighting. Here's a thought ... could another lighting source have been the miles high glass structures reflecting and refracting sunlight at multiple angles? Regards, JJ Mercieca .----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '----------------------------------------------------' *MUFOR Web site: http://www.mufor.org/ * *TLP Database : http://www.mufor.org/tlp/lunar.html * *E-mail : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * *IRC Channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * *Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. *Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * *Postal Address: P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Drake's Equation From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 18:03:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:47:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation Stan Friedman wrote : > Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it > totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 > major factors in determining the distribution of > intelligent life on earth. It also ignores the possibility that (possibly intelligent) life could evolve independantly on multiple worlds within the same solar system ... case in point Mars and (still to be seen) Europa. Regards, JJ Mercieca .----------------------------------------------------. * ~ MALTA UFO RESEARCH ~ * * Researcher & Investigator : John Joseph Mercieca * '----------------------------------------------------' *MUFOR Web site: http://www.mufor.org/ * *TLP Database : http://www.mufor.org/tlp/lunar.html * *E-mail : mufor@maltanet.omnes.net * *IRC Channel : #cydonia (on Undernet) * *Fax : + 356 456729 .'--------------. *Mobile : 099 0756 * "Either these * *Postal Address: P.O. Box 14, Rabat RBT 01, MALTA. * features on * '------.-------------------------------------------.' Mars are * * natural and this investigation is a complete waste of time,* *or they are artificial and this is one of the most important* * discoveries of our entire existence on Earth." * * - RICHARD C.HOAGLAND on the MONUMENTS of CYDONIA, MARS * '------------------------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:13:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:48:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:30:44 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >References: <2.2.32.19961230154433.0073d5c8@mail.globalserve.net> JC: Sorry for this interjection again, but: A problem existing in Ufology today is that skeptics, because they have not researched deep enough, often quote statistics that skew historical fact. Example, the following quote: >........ There are tens and tens of >thousands of UFO sightings reported over the last 50 or so years and >that is our raw uninvestigated data population. That is also the most >useless number in all of ufology. Of the uninvestigated total we know >that easily from 80% (being very generous) to 95% are IFOs (and some, a >small percentage) are hoaxes. We know statistically that 80% to 95% >will be retired as IFOs....... REBUTTAL: JC: In the past, most of the statistics used to retire UFOs as IFOs were provided by the Air Force. The Air Force claimed they were getting their numbers from Project Blue Book, their own study they touted as being the solution to the UFO problem. 1 The following quote from Major Quintanilla, head of Project Blue Book in its latter years, from the Evening Star, 23 Mar. 66 illustrates this point: 2 >"Project Blue Book had received 10,147 reports since it inception in >1947. Of these 646 remain unresolved." .... >"Since 1956, ... , the Air Force has handled saucer investigations >in another way, and the results in the last 10 years are sharply >different: 6,162 reports, only 141 unresolved." JC: The Air Force had been claiming all along that they were studying the problem and that they had reduced the number of UFO sightings to a smaller number each year. (in the above instance: 141/6162 = approx. 2.29%) However, those statistics where shown to be erroneous from several sources, one of these being pointed out by Dr. J. Allen Hynek, the Air Force's own #1 civilian astronomical consultant to Project Blue Book for approximately twenty years. 3 As I mentioned in my posting (Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:22:50 -0500, Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs), Hynek, himself, felt the statistics touted by the Air Force were meaningless. He stated the following in Appendix 4, Section D, Paragraph 1 of his book; The UFO Experience, Chicago: Henry Regnery Co., 1972 ). It was included in a letter to his boss, Colonel Sleeper. >"The statistical methods employed by Blue Book are a travesty on >the branch of mathematics known as Statistics. A chapter in a >doctoral dissertation at Northwestern University, soon to be >published, deals specifically with this aspect, and I will later >quote from it (Herbert Strentz, "A Study of Some Air Force >Statistical Procedures in Recording and Reporting Data on UFO >Investigations," included in "A SURVEY OF PRESS COVERAGE OF UFOs, >1947-1967, a doctoral thesis at the Medill School of Journalism, >Northwestern University") and preface it with my own observations >which, incidentally, I have repeatedly brought to the attention of >the Blue Book staff but to no avail." JC: If you can't trust the Air Force's #1 civilian astronomical consultant and the doctoral study he cites to have a handle on basic statistics, who or what can we trust? Mind you, this is the same man who was in charge of satellite tracking for the Smithsonian (paid for by NASA), when we and the Russians were first placing satellites in orbit. 4 NASA never complained about his mathematical ability back then. They paid his salary. As a matter of fact, this was one of the reasons the Air Force hired him to be their consultant to Project Blue Book. The fact that the Air Force statistics were meaningless was made even more obvious when we closely examine a study, paid for by the Air Force itself, the Condon Study (late 1960's). 5 It was the main university UFO study whose data was used as an excuse to close Project Blue Book. 6 When one examines the percentage of UFOs finalized in that study, we discover that it is actually significantly higher than what the Air Force was claiming. 7 The following is a small portion of James McDonald Feb. 1969 speech to the Dupont Chapter of the Scientific Research Society of America, which disputes the findings of that Condon Report. 8 >Item #6: "..., those who prepared the Report ended up with about a dozen >(i.e., about 15 per cent) of their cases in their "Unexplained" category. >Some are extremely significant UFO cases (e.g., Texas B-47 or Lakenheath); >yet these Unexplained UFOs appear to have been casually ignored by Condon >in recommending that UFOs be considered of no further scientific >significance." 9 JC: The percentages quoted by McDonald in his address were actually disputed by an eleven man study performed on the Condon Report by the American Institute of Astronautics and Aeronautics (AIAA) beginning in 1969. (They found the percentages of unknowns to be 30%.) The following quotes were previously displayed in Oberg/Cooper.4. >The following appeared in the NICAP Investigator: January 1969, >p. 7 .. "A special UFO Committee of the American Institute of >Astronautics and Aeronautics (AIAA), the largest non-governmental >aerospace agency in the world ... was established." A ten man >committee was formed to study the UFO topic further and "plans to >develop certain recommendations and to give some insight into its >reasoning." They concluded that ... "it (the UFO controversy) >deserves the attention of the engineering and scientific >community." .... "A 'Joint Statement by Scientists,' released by >NICAP, brought strong support from scientists in various fields, >including aerospace, psychology, physics, chemistry, botany, >sociology and biology. .... about fifty scientists signed a >statement urging 'an appropriate committee of the Congress to >initiate an investigation of. . . UFOs." >A quote from Dr. Hynek appeared in the 5/69 NICAP Investigator, >p.8: "Dr. Hynek writing in the April, 1969 issue of the Bulletin >of the Atomic Scientists, likens the Condon Report to an >'uninspired pot-boiler' and calls it a 'strange sort of scientific >paper (that) does not fulfill the promise of its title' (i.e. of >its claim of being scientific). 'The book,' says Hynek, 'leaves >the same strange, inexplicable residue of unknowns which has >plagued the U.S. Air Force investigation for twenty years. In >fact, the percentage of *unknowns* in the Condon report appears to >be even higher than in the Air Force investigation..' " >As previously mentioned, Dr. James McDonald brought his findings >before several scientific groups. Three of these included: >Dupont Chapter of the Scientific Research Society of America, >Wilmington, Del., on February 12, 1969 ; National Amateur >Astronomers, Inc. (NAA), Aug. 22, 1969 and to an American >Association For The Advancement of Science (AAAS) meeting, Dec. >27, 1969 ................ >Another quote from the NICAP Investigator, November, 1970: "The >American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) has >recommended renewed scientific investigation of UFOs." It reported >on a three year study by an eleven man panel of its own. It said >"The AIAA scientists rejected the Condon Report as the last word >on UFOs, saying they could find no 'basis in the report for Dr. >Condon's prediction that nothing of scientific value will come of >further studies.' " "In fact," the group stated, "(we) find that >the opposite conclusion could have been drawn from the content of >the report -- namely, that a phenomenon with such a high ratio of >unexplained cases (about 30 per cent) should arouse sufficient >scientific curiosity to continue its study." (N.B. this percentage >was higher than James McDonald had said in his Dupont address. I'm >not sure which was correct. Not withstanding, even the lower >percentage was higher than the Air Force claimed.) >So, when one examines the record, it clearly shows it wasn't just >Hynek and McDonald who disagreed with the Condon Study >conclusions. Unfortunately for science, all these admonitions >came too late and the Air Force, who paid for the study, got what >it paid for; the perfect reason to dismantle Project Blue Book... >a project that, as we will eventually discover, had become an >embarrassment to itself. Other information concerning NICAP's (National Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomena) role regarding the Condon study can be found at this footnote. 10 Anyone can easily go to the library and check out many of the sources listed below for yourselves. It is basic straightforward history. FOOTNOTES: 1 Ruppelt, Edward J. (former head of Project Blue Book): "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects," New York: Ace Books Inc., 1956 (paperback) Tells UFO history from an Air Force perspective and covers 1952 sightings.(no photos) 2 Also see: Newsday, Washington AP 11/7/57 "Flying Saucers Don't Exist AF Finds in 10-Year Study : Herald Tribune, Washington 2/27/59 "Air Force Puts Stress On Flying Saucer Data : Herald Tribune 12/18/60 "A Blast at Flying Saucers," Ubell, Earl (Science Editor) : "Parade" section of Washington Post 9/19/65 "FLYING SAUCERS" 3 Hynek, Allen J. Newsweek 10/10/66 p. 70 "UFO's for Real?" : Hynek, Allen J. Saturday Evening Post 12/17/66 . "Are Flying Saucers Real?" 4 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972, please see liner notes. 5 The Washington Post 4/22/66 "UFO Sightings Study Ordered" : The New York Times 8/14/66 Sullivan, Walter "Air Force Selecting University to Study 'Flying Saucer' Data" : Newsday Saturday 10/8/66 "Flying Saucer Study Is Sponsored by AF" : Look Magazine . Rogers, Warren ."Flying Saucers - Why the Pentagon was forced to call for scientific help" : Condon, Dr. Edward U.: "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects", New York: Bantam Books (A New York Times Book), 1/8/69 (minimal photos ... Good Gemini 11, plate 17) : Also see: Sullivan, Walter . introduction to the "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects", New York: Bantam Books (A New York Times Book), 1/8/69 6 Newsweek Magazine . 12/29/69 . p41 . "Closing the Blue Book" 7 The New York Times 8/14/66 Sullivan, Walter "Air Force Selecting University to Study 'Flying Saucer' Data" : Newsday Saturday 10/8/66 "Flying Saucer Study Is Sponsored by AF" : Look Magazine . Rogers, Warren ."Flying Saucers - Why the Pentagon was forced to call for scientific help" : NICAP Journal (The U.F.O. Investigator) Oct/Nov 1966 "University Starts UFO Probe..NICAP to Submit Factual Reports" : NICAP Journal (The U.F.O. Investigator) Jan/Feb 1967 "Colorado Project Operations" : NICAP Journal (The U.F.O. Investigator) Nov/Dec 1967 "AF-Colorado Contract Casts New Light On UFO Project" (Air Force "redefines" the term UFO) : Fox, J./Blumenfeld, H./Mindell T.: Flying Saucers Look Magazine Special, New York: Cowles Communications, Inc. & United Press International 1967 (excellent photos) 8 Biographical Information: Dr. James E. McDonald as of July 1968 Born: Duluth, Minnesota, May 7, 1920. B.A., Chemistry, University of Omaha, 1942. M.A., Meteorology, M.I.T., 1945. Ph.D., Physics, Iowa State University, 1951. U.S. Navy, Intelligence & aerology, 1942-45. Instructor, Physics, Iowa State University, 1946-49. Assistant Professor, Physics, Iowa State University, 1950-53. Research Physicist, Cloud Physics, Univ. of Chicago, 1953-54. Associate Prof., Physics, Univ. of Arizona, 1954-56. Full Professor,, Physics, Univ. of Arizona, 1956-57. Senior Physicist, Inst. of Atmospheric Studies, 1958 - present. Member, Weather Modification Panel, NAS, 1965 - present. Member, Navy Stormfury Advisory Panel, 1966 - present. Member, NSF Weather Modification Panel, 1967 - present. Member, AAAS, American Meteorological Society, Sigma Xi, American Geophysical Society, American Society of University Professors. Married, Six Children. 9 McDonald, Dr. James E. . NICAP UFO Investigator . Feb/Mar 1969 . "A Scientists Critique" . "My own estimate is that absolutely no further general progress towards scientific clarification of the UFO problem will come until the inadequacies of the Condon Report are fully aired in as many ways as possible. I intend to devote all possible personal effort to that objective..." : NICAP UFO Investigator . Sept/Oct 1969 . "UFO Clearing House Recommended" 10 NICAP Journal (The U.F.O. Investigator) Oct/Nov 1966 "University Starts UFO Probe..NICAP to Submit Factual Reports" : NICAP Journal (The U.F.O. Investigator) Jan/Feb 1967 "Colorado Project Operations" : NICAP Journal (The U.F.O. Investigator) Nov/Dec 1967 "AF-Colorado Contract Casts New Light On UFO Project" (Air Force "redefines" the term UFO) : Fox, J./Blumenfeld, H./Mindell T.: Flying Saucers Look Magazine Special, New York: Cowles Communications, Inc. & United Press International 1967 (excellent photos) Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net P.S. Brian Zeiler pointed out the following in an excellent posting he had made previously. Although I have not checked these out personally myself, I suspect he will probably be able to supply the supporting documentation: The following discrepancies were discovered in Air Force statements regarding their "statistics." >Deception #1: The USAF fails to mention the Bollender memo released >through the Freedom of Information Act which explicitly states that >Bluebook never saw any UFO cases that were deemed to be a "threat to >national security". Those cases were routed to a special office in >the Pentagon, affiliation unspecified, but out of the Bluebook system. >Deception #2: The USAF fails to mention that nearly everybody >involved with Bluebook that has ever discussed it openly has >explicitly said that the project was undermanned and underfunded. >Furthermore, former head of Bluebook Capt. Edward Ruppelt and chief >investigator Dr. J. Allen Hynek, the Northwestern University astronomy >professor, have said that Bluebook's job was to explain, not to >investigate. That's why only 5.5% were unidentified after Bluebook >examined them -- a figure that is FAR below the 30% of the Condon >Committee, which the USAF will later cite below! >Deception #3: The USAF fails to mention the statistical analysis by >the Battelle Memorial Institute of the USAF's Bluebook Special Report >#14 in 1970. This analysis showed that the "unknowns" deserved a >classification distinct from the "insufficient informations", because >the "unknowns" had all the information necessary to make an >identification, such as time, weather, location, multiple witness >descriptions, and so forth -- but the UFO could not be correlated with >any known phenomena. Furthermore, the chi square analysis conducted >on the unknowns with respect to seven characteristics showed >phenomenally low probability of misclassification. In fact, >astronomical phenomena were found to be the LEAST likely explanation >for the unknowns. This analysis lends strong credence to the >hypothesis that the unknowns, because of both their internal reporting >consistencies and because of their low probability of >misclassification, are in fact evidence of a unique new phenomenon. Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Drake's Equation From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 09:29:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:57:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation > From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 16:25:13 -0400 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Drake's Equation > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it > totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 > major factors in determining the distribution of > intelligent life on earth. > Stan Friedman A note to the nuclear physicists, consultants and conspiracy theorists on this list regarding basic math and its application to the Drake equation: The Drake equation starts with a total possible population: i.e., the number of stars in our galaxy. That number is well established. It also includes the estimated average number that can develop life in star systems that have developed planets. That number is not well established. Those are the only numbers that are greater than one in the entire application of the Drake equation. The remainding factors are stated in terms of percentages and/or probabilities. In the mathematical world of probabilities, the highest number is 1, or 100%. Each time that a factor is introduced into the Drake equation, unless the factor produces a probability of 1, that factor erodes away from the total population. It never "adds" to it. The introduction of "new" factors into the Drake equation will automatically make the outcome smaller, or at best not change the result in the case of a probability of 1. Under no circumstances does the outcome increase. The Drake equation addresses the question: How many technological civilizations are out there that have achieved the capability to communicate? Nothing more, nothing less. Neverthelees, if one would wish to ask the question as to how many of those technological civilizations could actually have achieved a capability level to colonize and migrate, that probability would be less than 1, or less than 100%, which means that the number would always be less than whatever the number arrived at by application of the Drake equation. Sorry to disullusion the nuclear physicists, consultants and conspiracy theorists on this list, but I felt the need to remind all of some very basic math principles that have apparently been overlooked in the application of conspiracy theories to the Drake equation. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 17:34:06 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:58:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Resent-From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >Resent-Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 22:56:38 GMT >From: Bob Shell <76750.2717@CompuServe.Com> >Subject: Moon Photos???? >Date: 03 Jan 97 16:10:02 EST >Message sent to the most astute photographic experts I know and assorted other >researchers: >Ever hear of a fellow by the name of David Percy? He's ARPS as well as member >of the British Industrial & Scientific Film Association according to his bio. >He's written a piece in the January issue of Fortean Times (English mag, but >sold on many US news stands) in which he purports to show that NASA's Apollo >moon photos are studio fakes. Worth taking a look at, since the points he >makes are quite valid and require explanation from NASA. [SNIP] For anyone interested I was paying a visit to the Fortean Times web site earlier today and some, if not all, of the photos are available on-line. Point your browser at: http://www.forteantimes.com/artic/94/moon.html John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Test Message - Ignore From: campbell@ufomind.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:51:55 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:16:04 -0800 Subject: Test Message - Ignore This is a test message that was never posted to the mailing list. It has no meaning and is loved only by its mother. > Test Quote > Test Quote > Test Quote > Test Quote > Test Quote +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 4 Test Message #2 - Ignore From: campbell@ufomind.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 16:51:55 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:29:52 -0800 Subject: Test Message #2 - Ignore This is a test message that was never posted to the mailing list. It has no meaning and is loved by no one. Test url: http://www.ufomind.com. Test url: http://www.ufomind.com? Test url: http://www.ufomind.com= Test url: http://www.ufomind.com, Test url: http://www.ufomind.com- Test url: http://www.ufomind.com: > Test Quote > Test Quote > Test Quote > Test Quote > Test Quote +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Project 1947 - Search From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:27:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:16:16 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Search Hi Folks! Anybody know if Dr. Harley Rutledge (Project Identification) is still around? Does he have email? He used to live in SE Missouri. Professor at a university, retired, also an astronomer. Francis Ridge The UFO Filter Center slk@evansville.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: UFO Military/Government Witnesses From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 12:29:23 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:18:03 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Military/Government Witnesses Armen Victorian said; >Despite much efforts and publicity made by Greer and company, and the >obtained support - and despite the threatening tone in his forthcoming >revelations, I do not expect anything significant to happen. Nor would >there be any reaction, reflecting fear or annoyance either from the White >House Administration, or the intelligence components. >Greer and co. do not talk with the required language to influence the >spheres they itemised as targets. I am assuming that you are "THE" Armen Victorian of the UK. AKA - 'Mr. Orchids' If you are, someone I spoke to, John Alexander, would love to talk to you about a few things. Will you be in the States anytime soon? >Greer's attempt might win him a psychological coup in the ground level >"ufological" domain - that's where the buck stops. No, the buck stops only when the truth comes out. Actually it already has but not public. >Armen Victorian ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com/UFO http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://www.sat.net/~pparri/SCRAPS http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/comet
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Old UFO case From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 13:42:51 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:19:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Old UFO case In an earlier email Jan said: >Looking at Barry Greenwood's draft bibliography of UFO and related >phenomena in journal and magazine articles... Would someone enlighten me as to what this bibliography is? Thanks, Pam
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Drake's Equation From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:43:22 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:21:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 18:03:37 +0100 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > Stan Friedman wrote : > > Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it > > totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 > > major factors in determining the distribution of > > intelligent life on earth. > > It also ignores the possibility that (possibly intelligent) life could > evolve independantly on multiple worlds within the same solar system ... > case in point Mars and (still to be seen) Europa. Not so. The third question of the Drake equation addresses the average number of planets in star systems that have developed planetary systems that can support life. Presently that number is stil one, but it may well increase based on whether or not we can establish by our own experience in the future regarding possibilities within our own solar system, i.e., Mars or even Europa. Mars life is yet to be an established fact. The answers to that question and to the total number of stars in our galaxy are the only items that can increase the speculative outcome of the present Drake equation. All other factors erode away from the outcome. Ed Stewart ps. But there is one item that has apparently escaped everyone that could possibly increase the outcome that is not, to the best of my knowledge, addressed in the present Drake equation. The assumption of the Drake equation is that once a civilization has reached a sophisticated level of technology that it will exist for only a portion of the available life span of its parent star which in all probability could span up to a few billion years, or whisper away after just a few thousand years. (The L factor), which is the most speculative factor since we only have our own example to go by. What the Drake equation does not consider is that technological civilizations could well cycle themselves into non-existance and then re-emerge again over the available life-span of its parent star. Since we have no knowledge that technological civilizations have arisen on Earth prior to our present one, the unspoken speculation built into the Drake equation is that a civilization will only become technological once during its life cycle. If we ever come across compelling evidence that prior technological civilizations existed on Earth prior to the present one and have since disappeared, that would have an impact on the present Drake equation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Drake's Equation From: SGBConsult@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 13:16:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:17:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation In a message dated 97-01-04 11:54:50 EST I wrote: > It has been decades since the Drake equation was first put on paper. > Given the accumulation of evidence in the fields of astronomy, physics and > ET Phenomenon research, isn't it time for this equation to be "formally and > publicly" restructured from scratch and recalculated based upon input from > the most respected researchers operating in these fields. Greg Sandow responded: >It still -- to me, at least -- seems so very speculative. We have no >data to plug into it. Every number is, essentially, a guess. >We might feel, and maybe even correctly, that our knowledge has advanced >since Drake first put forth the equation, and that therefore we'll get a >better result. But we don't know that for sure. And there's no way to >verify whether our knowledge really is any better. >In the last analysis, science knows absolutely nothing about the >prevalance of intelligent life in the universe. >(Note: I don't deny that there's all sorts of astronomical, chemical, >and biological data that 'appears' to be relevant. Science has no hard >information at all about other intelligent life. Scientists can't even >prove it exists. That's what the statement in my last paragraph means.) The Drake equation, of course, was never about proof. Rather it used a common approach to test an hypothesis by identifying as many variables as possible, apply estimated quantities to see if the result made any sense, and thus create a quantitative basis for debate and analysis. Characteristic of mainstream science's approach to matters touching on UFOlogy, that was pretty much the end of the matter. At the same time, the equation became a banner to be waved by UFOlogists in their ongoing effort to be recognized and make their case. What should have happened is that the fundamental hypothesis behind the equation would be continually revisited and the equation structure updated and refined. - same for the numbers to be inserted. The real value of the Drake equation was its role as a bridge between the worlds of ET Phenomena research and mainstream astronomy/astrophysics. A more rigorous and narrowly calculated Drake equation would serve the same purpose in the mainstream world as higher quality photographic evidence and first person accounts serve in the UFOlogical world - refining the hypothesis to improve the focus and quality of the debate and steer the research along the most fruitful paths. Steve Bassett SGBConsult
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:47:03 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:24:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>As previously mentioned, Dr. James McDonald brought his findings >>before several scientific groups. Jerry, Regarding the number of Bluebook unknowns, McDonald felt that the actual number of true unknowns was much higher. He wrote: "The Bluebook position has for years been that UFOs are almost entirely such misidentifieds, and Bluebook has repeatedly asserted that their small percentage of unidentifieds would fall into that category if more adequate data were at hand. After studying hundreds of their cases, I do not agree. I say instead that adequate and open- minded scrutiny of the roughly 12,000 cases now on file at Air Force Project Bluebook would probably raise the percentage of unidentifieds from the currently acknowledged few per cent to perhaps 30-40 percent." UFOs -- An International Scientific Problem. Paper Presented at the Canadian Aeronautics and Space Institute Astronautics Symposium, Montreal, Canada, March 12, 1968 And for those who are interested, Brian Zeiler and I have a special page dedicated to James McDonald at: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/papers_e.htm Jean __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: 'Backlash' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:41:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:25:02 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' > From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' > >Absolutely _FAR_ more valuable. > I was being polite. If I wasn't being polite, I'd have said something > to the effect that "at least we would HAVE evidence." I could think > of nastier things to say, but again, I am feeling rather polite. I completely understand. > Furthermore, the "knocking out" of the physical equipment would, in > and of itself, be an alarm that other actions are needed. NOW! Absolutely. Electronic gear that works fine in the lab, works fine in the homes of the team members, then gets zapped out in the abductees home means we have a serious problem. > >All doable with off-the-shelf, relatively inexpensive technology. > And very little technical knowledge. Any reasonably handy soldering > iron handler should be able to build these componants inexpensively > and reliably from mail order parts. Yep, basic technical knowledge. If you can set up a PC from out of the box you could probably get an inexpensive monitoring system up and running. > >This is definitely an invasion of the individual's privacy, but > >there's no way around that. For obvious reasons we would want a way > >to allow the individual to turn on/off the gear (some of the gear) at > >certain times. > I also think that we, the researchers, should be able to turn the gear > off without the knowledge of the subject. Why? > However, there would have to be some > strict times when the subject could not turn the gear off. More > importantly, this invasion of privacy would have to have the assurance > that disclusure would be limited to relevant information. We can't be > telling the world that our subject looks like Steven Segal but dresses > like Mea West. Hahahaha!!! I don't know enough legalese to get very specific but I think we'd want something like a contract, somethng that specifies ownership of the data, who can do what with the data, etc. I don't think this would be very difficult to put together. I think the personal data belongs to the person, I mean any data associated with that person's _name_, and any impersonal data belongs to the group doing the monitoring. We'd also want some stipulation as to timing of publishing. > >When I'm in a particularly generous mood I'm completely surprised by > >that also <grin>. > Then lets be generous and suprised. The alternative isn't pleasent. Agreed <grin>. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:12:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:25:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > >Paraphrasing Dennis from an article he wrote years ago: You can't > >use one mystery to explain another. Scientists work with the physics > >that they know, not the physics they don't know ... > Actually John, this is *exactly* what much of modern physics does. > Just consider Eintein's graviton which has never been detected or > Higg's boson or superstrings in modern unified field theories. Or Kip > Thorne, who postulated negative matter in order to create worm-holes > and FTL travel. All of them just hypothetical constructs. Physicists > theorize all kinds of things if it allows them to account for specific > observations. That's why modern physics is still mostly ad hoc and > descriptive, not explanatory. I probaby should have been clearer. Sure, hypothetical constructs are necessarily a part of theory development. But those unknown pieces aren't accepted until they become formalized in a hypothesis which can then be tested. Also, those examples you mention are _parts_ of a greater whole for which we have other known parts. In the case of UFOs and FTL (faster than light) travel we have an equation with only two components _both_ of which are hypothetical constructs. So, as an example, if UFOs are physically real craft (something we're not entirely certain of in many cases) then, yes, they'd have to come from somewhere. But we'd better rule out them coming from _here_ before we hypothetically construct them coming from elsewhere using a method of travel that is also a hypothetical construct. The problem here is really one of focus. Frequently folks bring to the table some data and an (or their) explanation, usually 'packaged' in such a way that the two items are seen as one item. They say (for example), "I saw this UFO, this craft, and here's my photos/video." Its easy to dismiss the idea that its an alien spacecraft from Planet X, and that very frequently happens. Its also easy to dismiss the person, which also frequently happens. And, usually, in one of both of those processes, the _data_ got dismissed too. If folks are or are trying to do objective science then they should generally ignore the attendant explanation, they should separate the data from the person, but they should retain the data. That process is highly dependent on how easy or possible it is to separate the data from the observer. In single-witness cases with no other circumstantial evidence you really can't make the separation, there's no observer-independent corroborative data. With multiple independent observations, radar/visual observations, photographs and video, etc., we have data that can be _fully_ separated from the observer. That's the data we want to use. I don't think we know as much about this phenomenon as we collectively think we know, I think we allow unverified abductee and contactee stories much too much credence, (and I can't let the media go unmentioned <grin>) and that's why its easy to make the leaps that these must be craft of some kind that must come from somewhere else and must therefore have FTL capabilities. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:11:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:26:40 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing > > Still, Hopkins could publish one small portion of one sample - and > > that's all. Even without having seen the samples I'm _certain_ that > > a small portion of one sample could be found that if imitated _would > > not_ be enough to pass for an entire sample. > Surprisingly enough, that's not so. Not so!? > I'd compared the writing -- symbology, or whatever it might be -- to > Morse Code. That's not at all an exact comparison; the writing doesn't > consist of dots and horizontal lines. > But it does consist -- much like Morse Code -- of the same elements, > repeated in every "letter" (or symbol, or whatever). I suppose if Budd > published just a little bit of it, nobody would have to know that, > having seen that little bit, they'd effectively seen enough of the > whole to fake a sample of their own. Obviously I'm making this up as I go because I haven't seen any such samples...<grin> I'm just very surprised by the idea that if one or two symbols were made public that somebody could invent their own symbology that would statistically come close to the original symbology. > Which maybe means I've blown the whole thing by saying this myself! > Except I don't see how any published study of the 'writing' could fail > to mention this fact. > Again, to make this perfectly clear, I'll use an example. If the > writing consisted only of these characters > + ^ / > that would mean every "word" would be some combination of them. For > example: > +///^ ^^^/+ /^^^ > Now imagine page after page of "words" built from those characters. > Once you knew that was how the stuff was constructed, all you'd need > would be to see the three "words" I've just typed to manufacture a > convincing imitation. Convincing to whom? If the symbology is as simple as you suggest then I absolutely guarantee that modern cryptographic analysis could decode it. Given the simple symbology above there are a couple of tests that could be performed. For example, how many samples have the same 'word' in them? > Of course, maybe there are other similarities in Budd's > samples...maybe the "words" themselves are similar, or there's some > regularity in the order of the "letters." Exactly right. You start with an index of the symbology, the characters, then you build an index of the maximum possible _simple_ words, then you look at 'actual' words. With only a handful of characters to work with cryptographic analysis would be straightforward and we have folks who've been doing that for decades with vastly more complicated material. > But you know...this is all really moot by now. Because if Budd really > has 35 samples, it's about time he published them, and resigned > himself to showing the world exactly what they look like. 35 is a > striking impressive number, if they're truly found to be similar. I > don't think much is gained by holding out for more. Me either. High time he had it analyzed. > By the way, John, I'm going to ask Budd to subject the things to a > full impartial investigation. I don't think that's incompatible with > the mode of publication he's chosen. In fact, even allowing him his > choice of ways to publish, he could also have a study done by others, > which could conceivably be printed in the Journal of UFO Studies. I'm > going to see if that could be possible. This stuff is way too > important to be left in my hands, or Budd's. I didn't realize earlier that the symbology was as simple as I now understand it to be. I'd suggest that somebody give a copy of all the symbology to a cryptographic analyst _before_ taking the time and work for the type of study we were talking about. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:49:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:27:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: KRandle993@aol.com > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > > I have no idea why SETI makes the assumptions it does. Why do they > > consider a signal 'good' only if its the _SAME_ signal coming from > > the _SAME_ place more than once??? Does that make sense? Do we > > broadcast the _SAME_ signal day after day? > Yes, they're called reruns, and the networks are broadcasting them > more often because it's cheaper than making new shows... or they're > called syndication which means that we are still broadcasting the > signals of Gilligan's Island. Think about that. Do we really want an > alien civilization to get their first impressions of us from reruns of > Gilligan's Island and Laverne and Shirley. I understand the point you're trying to make but I'm going to nitpick anyway <grin>. One re-run of Laverne & Shirley isn't the whole 'signal'. The 'signal' coming from Earth is a combination of all the traffic around the globe at any given time. Some signals are stronger than others, but there's a _huge_ bunch of stuff in that one 'signal'. SETI listens _not_ for the one part of one signal that may be an alien version of Starsky & Hutch, but instead listens for the _whole_ signal and requires it to be the _SAME_ signal from the _SAME_ place. So, an alien version of SETI would require that we broadcast _EXACTLY_ the same TV and radio (and other signals) on _two_ (or more) consecutive days. In may seem like these re-runs are all the same <grin> but the resulting complete signal from Earth is never actually the same day after day. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:24:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:28:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > While I understand your meaning, our seemingly absolute insistance > that physics states that FTL travel is impossible is a dramatic > illustration that terminology generates epistemology. I like the association that terminology generates epistemology. > Physics describes a certain "domain" where FTL travel appears not to > be exceeded. Physics does not preclude the existence of domains where > FTL speed is common. Nor does physics preclude that what we perceive > or measure may also be a multi-domained realm that has only been > measured partially only because of our "limited definition" of it. We > may, in fact, have a methodolody to demonstrate that we do participate > in a multi-domained realm within which FTL speed is indeed > commonplace. > [...] > When we understand physics as a means of functional description rather > than as an absolute scale of operations we may be able to resolve the > apparent FTL limit and other apparent limits to our epistemology. I don't personally think that FTL is impossible, we just haven't figured it out yet. If I had to guess I'd guess that we'll first figure out how to modulate data over FTL speeds. That would radically change robotic space exploration. But in certain areas, especially in ufology, I think its real important to stick with what we know, (what we really know), until we've exhausted all that we know, before moving into stuff we aren't so sure about. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 14:28:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:29:30 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > > There probably are other examples, I'd be surprised if there > > weren't. Science politics is a heated competition of ideas. > Menzelian science is my polite way of saying psychological warfare, > disinformation, prevarication elementary tools of counterintelligence > not generally the methods of science politics. I think you're too quick to assume counterintelligence. Just because someone doesn't believe that UFOs are alien spacecraft is no reason to assume they are counterintelligence agents...<grin> > Location, location, location they say is the one of the most important > factors in real estate. > Communications, communications, communications is similarly important > in intelligence operations if there is or will be contact with > extraterrestrials where might you place your key people? I've read the posted Drake material and it proves nothing. > > No basis at all. I'm sure there are other such examples. We know, > > for instance (without even invoking the CIA), that the military has > > policies for official tactical deception. That's the actual name of > > the USAF's such policy. > > The Robertson/Durant net result, that we don't want Americans > > freaked out by UFOs (for various reasons) was good. I don't mean > > 'good' as in right, I mean that it made sense at the time. Today we > > obviously don't have that problem. Why not? > An interesting value judgement. What assumptions went into your > judgement that the net result was good or made sense at the time? > Who are the "we" you refer to? The Cold War, threats from the Soviet Union, etc. You have two things operating here: 1) The gov't/military observations of the world at large, and; 2) Their response to that observation. Ignoring the fact that we helped invent some of those problems, such as the Cold War, our then observation of the world's problem and threats were reasonably accurate. We knew people could be paniced, we knew we didn't want them paniced, we know there could be many other associated problems if they got paniced. (We also weren't too keen on making public our R&D stuff given the competition for military superiority.) The second part, the then gov't/military response to that observation, given their mindset at that time, makes sense to me. I'm not saying I agree with that response, in case you missed me typing that the first time. I'm saying that given the circumstances I can see it as a not uncharacteristic response for them to have dreamed up and implemented. Remember these were largely military or military-related people solving a _military-related_ problem. That response obviously had some silly aspects. For instance, assuming that if certain respected people explained away all UFO sightings then UFO sightings will magically stop occurring...<grin> But you missed the last part of that paragraph. "Today we obviously don't have that problem. Why not?" UFO 'coverage' today has increased at least a 1,000 fold over coverage during the late 40s through the early 60s. As Clark pointed out in the recent IUR the notion of these objects being extraterrestrial craft wasn't even slightly popular until much after the beginning of the modern UFO era. So, with all this coverage why don't we have a stepped-up disinformation campaign? I think the answer is found in the original problem. The flaw in the Robertson/Durant panel conclusion was in allowing the military to make public policy. They never have been capable of it and probably never will be. The military makes military policy, and they're generally pretty good at that, but that's all. The silly aspect, that UFO sightings would disappear if previous UFO sightings were explained away, is exactly the type of common sense non-military idea that military people solving a military problem are incapable of figuring out. Today we don't have a public UFO panic, we never have had a public UFO panic. We also know that the original disinformation campaign failed miserably, and we know that the public doesn't panic as easily as they once thought they would. In fact, we don't have a public UFO panic because those who haven't dismissed ufology have leaped beyond panic straight into _belief_. Had the Robertson panel done _nothing_ this would have happened anyway. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:14:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:31:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > > Y'know, there are scientists and then there are > > scientists/politicians. Science is never right or wrong, its just a > > constant search to _know_ what there is to know and how it works. > > That's _real_ science. The rest is just science politics. > I had an e-mail exchange with Paul Davies... > Anyhow, I asked Davies why the SETI types seemed so certain of their > highly speculative conclusions. He answered that they exaggerated > their certainty in order to get funding. > Politics...it's absolutly everywhere. I added this sentence to make this message more than a one-line reply: HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Drake's Equation From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 16:10:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:33:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation Stan Friedman wrote: > > Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it > > totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 > > major factors in determining the distribution of > > intelligent life on earth. > > Stan Friedman To which Ed Stewart replied: > A note to the nuclear physicists, consultants and conspiracy theorists > on this list regarding basic math and its application to the Drake > equation: > The Drake equation starts with a total possible population: i.e., the > number of stars in our galaxy. That number is well established. It also > includes the estimated average number that can develop life in star > systems that have developed planets. That number is not well > established. Those are the only numbers that are greater than one in the > entire application of the Drake equation. The remainding factors are > stated in terms of percentages and/or probabilities. In the mathematical > world of probabilities, the highest number is 1, or 100%. > Each time that a factor is introduced into the Drake equation, unless > the factor produces a probability of 1, that factor erodes away from the > total population. It never "adds" to it. The introduction of "new" > factors into the Drake equation will automatically make the outcome > smaller, or at best not change the result in the case of a probability > of 1. Under no circumstances does the outcome increase. > The Drake equation addresses the question: How many technological > civilizations are out there that have achieved the capability to > communicate? Nothing more, nothing less. Neverthelees, if one would wish > to ask the question as to how many of those technological civilizations > could actually have achieved a capability level to colonize and migrate, > that probability would be less than 1, or less than 100%, which means > that the number would always be less than whatever the number arrived at > by application of the Drake equation. > Sorry to disullusion the nuclear physicists, consultants and conspiracy > theorists on this list, but I felt the need to remind all of some very > basic math principles that have apparently been overlooked in the > application of conspiracy theories to the Drake equation. > Ed, I'm not a nuclear physicist or a conspiracy theorist, but you may have misunderstood Stan's point. Clearly, each term Drake introduced into his equation lowers the number of civilizations that might be found. That's because of the elementary math you referred to. You take the total population of stars, subtract those that don't have planets, subtract those with planets that can't support life, subtract those on which intelligent life never developed ...and so on. But what Stan meant, I believe, is that civilizations that colonize or migrate create <new> civilizations, and therefore raise the total number. You'd apply his thought as follows. Plug numbers into the Drake Equation. Subtract, from the total population of stars, all the limiting factors, those I've mentioned plus others (civilizations that never develop high technology, those that destroy themselves, and so on). At the end of your calculations, you arrive at a number: The total number of intelligent technological civilizations in the galaxy. Now you estimate what percentage of them engage in colonization or migration. Obviously -- elementary math again, not to mention common sense -- this gives you an even smaller number. Not all intelligent technological civilizations might colonize or migrate. But that's not the reason for estimating this number. You want to know how many civilizations colonize or migrate because each has the potential to create one or more new civilizations. So now you need to estimate how many new civilizations each traveling or migrating race might create, multiply by the number of colonizing or migrating races, and add that number to the total. Not, in my opinion, that these numbers mean much. The whole thing strikes me as desperately unknowable. How many civilizations simply spread, without losing track of their branches, so that these branches become fresh civilizations in their own right? How many colonies suppress native intelligent life? These things, to put it mildly, are hard to estimate, especially in the absence of any data at all. Still, Stan has a point, looking at the proposition theoretically. The Drake Equation might well underestimate the number of civilizations, because each traveling race might engender additional civilizations of its own. Drake would presumably reject that thought, I should note -- since he thinks interstellar travel is impossible. In his view, nobody colonizes or migrates. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 20:01:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:35:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article Regarding... >Date: 03 Jan 97 09:23:25 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article Bob Shell wrote in response to Ed Stewart's comments: >I suggest that Mr. Stewart read "Jack's" statement over again. >He does not say that he filmed the Trinity test. He only says >"the tests at White Sands". >In other communications he says he filmed from the air. Aerial >photos of Trinity do exist, but the photographer(s) are not >identified. He may have filmed the Trinity test from the air, or >he may have filmed the site prior to or after the test. Bob, During August/September last year, I had some correspondence with Ray Santilli on this aspect and it seems that Ray is in no doubt what his claimed cameraman is supposed to have filmed. I wrote to Ray: "One of the reasons for choosing Jornada del Muerto as a test site, was that it enjoyed relatively good weather. The test was originally scheduled for 4 a.m., on Monday July 16, 1945, but due to a quirk of fate, there was a severe thunderstorm in the area and as this would have increased the amount of radioactive fallout and interfered with the test results, the test was postponed to 5:30. The rain finally stopped and at 5:29:45 a.m., the Trinity test finally took place. However, as a result of the bad weather and delay, the planned aerial observation of the test had to be abandoned. Research and statements I have obtained from experts on the Trinity test clearly indicate there is no known aerial film for this reason. If there had been aerial footage, it would have been invaluable to those within the Manhattan Project and they were the people who lamented its absence. This is well documented. So, what does the cameraman claim to have filmed? There was only one Manhattan Project, one Trinity test. There were some aerial photographs of the test site taken some time after the event and these were the photographs I alluded to, but it's now known their origin is also well documented. Could you possibly ask the cameraman what exactly he claims to have filmed and when?" Ray replied (he does sometimes!): "I will go back to him with your information HOWEVER he has always maintained that he did film this test from the air. If you remember an issue of this was made last year during which he was very clear". Unfortunately, there was no further response from Ray. Still, for reasons which are not mentioned here, it is conceivable that some aerial filming did take place, even though the existence of that film doesn't seem to have been known to the project scientists and isn't documented by historians. This would perhaps be most unlikely, but as I subsequently mentioned to Ray, "If the cameraman's claims are true, it's possible that an explanation would contain some facts which would be very difficult for someone who wasn't actually there to know about". And that should be the case. A note for Ed Stewart and others; watch out for any bracketed comments in the "cameraman's statement", e.g., "During my time I filmed a great deal, including the tests at White Sands (Manhattan project/Trinity)". These have been added for information, are not part of the original and I dare say are not necessarily accurate interpretations. James. Internet; pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 17:00:32 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:34:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 10:03:21 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > References: <2.2.32.19961227191627.00c56f34@mail.globalserve.net> > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > Subject: Philosophy of Science and UFO > > Thanks to Steven J. Powell for posting the articles on science and the > > study of UFOs. > You're very welcome. > I've been guilty of preaching 'science' lately so I thought I'd stop for > a moment and let others do the preaching for me by way of their > published articles. [.....] > > An attempt was made to deploy a rapid response investigative team to > > UFO sites shortly after an observation. However, as can be easily > > seen by reading Roy Craig's book, the execution of this plan left much > > to be desired. I have read correspondence critical of the > > investigation teams' deployment to UFO sites which seemed of little > > potential value. The Condon Committee's answer was, "how do we know > > the case won't be interesting if we don't go out an investigate?" > > (Rather unimaginative for an organization of scientists with limited > > resources.) > Do you suspect that Condon, and perhaps others, being conscious of the > fact that a high percentage of reports are misidentifications, > intentionally exploited investigation teams to create negative > ufological press? No! I don't think Condon was really much involved at this phase. I think this was an honest attempt--but one that lacked the initial prior planning--to get data. George Earley wrote to NICAP that he was very impressed when the team came to Connectiuct. They had much of the equipment that would be required to measure any aftereffects that were present, and they were enthusiastic. They just wasted a lot of time and resources going after any ball that came near them. They had not thought enough about a standard to use to determine if the case were significant. Later Condon would become involved during the writing and editing phase where everything but the kitchen sink was put into the report. An old trick I have used myself to good effect several times. The intended audience reads your conclusion and is put off by the weight of your report so they do not look at what the report contains. > > As I see it, the first step in study of UFOs involves a philosophy of > > science discussion. Most curt dismissals given by the scientific > > community to date also seem to recognize this point. Ignorance is at > > work here. Most scientists have not examine the body of evidence > > beyond the tabloid trash theories or have quickly become bogged down > > with the sense that nothing unique is taking place because the vast > > majority of the incidents are IFO. > That the vast majority of eyewitness observatins are IFO is something > that we can file in the "Duh!" category. We _know_ eyewitness > observations are going to be tainted to varying degrees and for varying > reasons, independent scientific study has demonstrated it and our own > internal review of our own data demonstrates it, _therefore_ we should > not automatically dismiss or include eyewitness observational data. [....] > I'm not sure where a discussion of the philosophy of science will lead > but its fascinating stuff and maybe it'll help me to stop whining about > all that's wrong with ufology <grin>. It is necessary to define the problem. It is also important because of the nature of the data (see above.), and all the arguments about why ufo cannot be studied. We are not in a position like Churchill was with the Mulberrys when he told his technical, military and logistic staffs, "I do not want any discussion on why this project cannot be done. I just want you to do what is necessary to accomplish it." (Not the exact quote, but the effect is there.) At the scientific reviews the scientists' opinions were always asked about the phenomenon. What should have occurred was a mission statement. "We have this apparent 'will o' the wisp' phenomenon. Find a way to study it." Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 19:56:33 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 04:36:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 08:59:16 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > References: <2.2.32.19961230000443.006ea454@mail.globalserve.net> > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > Subject: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > > > However, I would like to throw out some more half-baked ideas. > > 1. LARGE NUMBER OF REPORTS: > > The actual number of ufo reports is unbelievably huge. Few, I think, > > realize the sheer number of reports. Vallee, Don Johnson, Barry > > Greenwood, and some of our French colleagues probably have an idea. > > Something like 10,000 a year worldwide. Indications are twice that from our press studies! > But this is just the rawest data, no investigation whatsoever, and is > therefore a wholly meaningless number. > Obviously if the sightings have passed even basic investigation then > they should not be included in a database upon which statistical > analysis is to be performed. Aime Michel and Ruppelt (and I) had the same idea. Collect huge amounts of data then look for patterns. Michel connected the dots. Orthoneny always seemed strange to me, but it was a systemic, if wrong, approach. So when connecting the dots didn't work Michel just walked away. Sigh. One fellow's night light might be another's CE. We only do this type of thing on an ad hoc basis. If there is an interesting encounter around, then we look for other reports in the area as confirmation. I was interested to talk to a fellow who had a ufo organization in the 1960. He told me he sent his "good" reports to another organization. Sold his newspaper clippings to a sociologist who was doing a study of ufo beliefs and threw his NL away. I think maybe we have missed something here. ( We use to call NLs, Damn Lights and for good reason until Isabel Davis got after us. She said we could call them Damnable Lights because the British parliament had determined that that damn was objectionable while damnable was allowed in debates. If you read Dr. James McDonald's papers, you will find him referring to "Damnable Lights." While doing resarch in some 1930's London DAILY TELEGRAPH, I found the parliamentary prescription.) Anyway, I feel, like Michel and Ruppelt, we should start with everything. DL are generally low strangeness and low creditability but should be kept. > There's a catch-22 here. Obviously everything starts with collecting > data, then at some point moves to analyzing that data. The purpose of > analysis is to find significant patterns and significant lack of > patterning in the data. The third basic step can go two ways. One way > is to take the general population patterns back to specific cases and > confirm matching. The other angle is to begin to make predictions, > collect additional data to test those predictions. Collecting data has not really been address. We have made large statements based on small samples. Predictions are dangerous you start finding what you want to be there. > The catch-22 is that we should technically be collecting _all_ the data > so as not to risk jeopardising the database and therefore the results. > I think the safe way out of this catch-22 is to create selection > criteria that _don't_ affect the observation, just the > observing/observer. > > For example, remove from the database _all_ single person observations. I violently disagree. Most reported data is from a single observer. He may list other witnesses by it is seldom that they are investigated for collaboration. Also, if you have a group of witnesses at the same spot, you start to get social dynamics. There is always a group leader who determines what is acceptable and what is not. Jeff Lindell has done some investigations along this line. If the group leader is skeptical the group is conservative. If the group leader is credulous "Katy bar the door." McDonald has a great illustative letter about this in his file from one of the witnesses out at White Sands in the late 1940's. > > However, the surprising thing is that Battelle did not use this data > > as a check against the Air Force files. The USAF data was bias > > because many of the reports were from official sources around military > > and official installations which were forced to report ufos by > > regulation while public reports were voluntary. If the same analysis > > were done using clipping service reports, what patterns would appear? > Actually, Battelle _should_ have performed two in-paralel series of > analysis on both sets of data to confirm/disprove the assumption of > bias. I don't think (personal opinion) that the assumption is valid or > meaningful. > A personnel opinion is not the matter here. The sample was not randomized. There is a selection effect at work here. Perhaps the selection effect is indeed meaningless. However, the data should be view with caution. The parralel study is indeed a good idea. > > 2. RELIABILITY AND CREDITABILITY > > Vallee, Berliner, Hynek and others have addressed this in different > > ways. The posting from Tom Rice discussed the military intelligence > > system. In any database, this necessarily subjective determination, > > should be taken into account. Don Berliner told me that when the UFO > > EVIDENCE was written about 6000 reports were screened first for > > reliable witnesses. The reports selected were then checked for > > patterns. > I don't know of an objective way for determinimg a reliable witness. I > don't think its safe to cull the data based on observer-related > criteria. You don't need an objective way; you need a consistantly applied criteria. It also does not need to be observer based. With 1947 data I am of necessity dealing mostly with items printed in the press. I think the factors I wish to take into account are the witness (his reliability), the reporter (where is the acount? in a book, a newspaper, etc...how reliable is this), and the investiagtion. So if you had a database, you could start restricting the data based on the different gradations in each or averages of all. Also, I feel it is necessary to try to come up with an plausible explanation for each case with a confidence factor. Another words how confident are you that the explanation is correct. Then you might want to screen for case in which the confidence factor were low. Subjective criteria to be sure, but similar technics are used in many scientific applications. > I think it is safe to separate the data based on > observation-related criteria. If we're looking for a pattern, and if > there are patterns, then those patterns should be present or at least > not removed from the data simple by selecting data based on > observation-related criteria. If a patter-type happens to be Silver > Discoid then that should be reflected in both the multi-observer > sightings _and_ the single-observer sightings -OR- there's a major > problem with all the data. Weather balloons or pibals also appear disklike in some cases. There are problems no matter what is tried. > > 3. USAF, MOD, DND, ETC., STATISTICS > > Just about everyone is impressed by statistic. In the CIA analysis > > of the 1952 wave, they saw the AF claim of "only" 20% unexplained as > > evidence that the AF was on the right track. The CIA thought however, > > that the AF did not pay enough attention to possible patterns in the > > ufo data. The small percent of unidentifieds is always a reason to > > reject any further study. > > That was silly then and it is silly now. You and I recognize this. The media, the public, and scientists with casual knowledge of the subject don't. It seems to make perfect sense despites Mark Twain's low opinion the use of statistics. > Given the amount of complexity > that is inherent in eyewitness observations of non-identified aerial > objects we _should_ expect to have unidentifieds that remain that way > _after_ investigation. The purpose of performing statistical analysis > on that dataset is to _further_ the stalled investigation of those > observations. Exactly. See above. > After all, do we need to collect data on how many times eyewitnesses > observe the full moon and then perform statistical analysis on that data > to determine that the Moon does indeed exist <grin>? > Double <g>. > My personal opinion is that earlier gov't-based and military-based data > analysis was designed to explain as many cases as possible and use that > dataset of explained cases as a statistical basis for ignoring the > unexplained remainder. I think they properly assummed that the opposite > approach, to collect and analyze the unexplained cases, was likely to > yeild data patterning too closely consistent with existing classified > aerial projects, or worse, too closely consistent with the media-based > definition of "alien spaceships." (They were probably equally worried > about both potential outcomes.) Once again I agree. > Well, we already know that the bulk of the unexplained cases 'seem' like > "alien spaceships" because says so <grin>. It might be worthwhile to > compare the isolated single observer sightings with the multi-observer > sightings to see which and how many patterns exist in both datasets. > Okay. Thanks for the input, John. More food for thought. In Condon committee meetings half the time they spent calling each other names. Best regards, Jan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 PNS - 'Structured Craft' UFO Taped Near Area 51 From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 22:25:10 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:47:15 -0500 Subject: PNS - 'Structured Craft' UFO Taped Near Area 51 the PARANORMAL NEWS SERVICE (pns) sends you this : 1) The UFO Museum in SF,CA has started a news service that sends out mostly short items to other media and some investigators. They will be sporadic and hopefully, useful. 2) First News item: STRUCTURED CRAFT UFO VIDEOTAPED NEAR AREA 51. As may have been stated before by other sources, several California men on a tourist visit to the Rachel,NV area near Area 51, have videotaped on Hi-8mm a sequence of the best and closest ever of a ufo close to Area 51. The craft resembles to some degree the "sports model ufo" as reported by alleged former employee engineering aide Bob Lazar, and the ufo photographed by Gary Schultz in approximatrely 1990 in the same area. According to the analyst, Chuck Clark, who lives in Rachel, the object is far more clear than any other ufos filmed there, and could well blow the lid off "Black budget" testing once the public gets to see the video, and the supporting witnesses statements. Clark raises the interesting issue: If the gov't wants to hide these objects they seem to be testing, then why let them fly to adjacent areas where people are waiting to film them? PNS speculates that the gov't wants us to know, and picks this method. If this is true, then the owners of the video should have nothing to fear on being identified. PNS is a part of the UFO Museum,SF. "Not only is the universe stranger than you imagine, the universe is stranger than you CAN imagine." JBS Haldane NOTICE: Museum is open . 709 Union st,North Beach,SF,CA Ye editor Erik Beckjord,BA,MBA Curator - the UFO,Bigfoot& Loch Ness Monster Museum Box 9502 Berkeley,CA 94709 510 - 848-2233,415-974-4339 VM,415-989-5005 on site museum. Lists: Beckjord@transbay.net Museum: ufobfmuseum@value.net see: http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/ ( UFO Museum)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 'Alien Autopsy' - Film Testing From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 22:18:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:48:13 -0500 Subject: 'Alien Autopsy' - Film Testing On 17 Dec 1996, I mentioned on the UpDates list to Theresa Carlson: "I wonder when Ray told Bob Shell that there was no intention to submit any film to Kodak. Presumably this must have been after Bob had made all of the arrangements and had spent almost a year being patiently optimistic this would take place. This is of course assuming Bob does know. Maybe he doesn't; I'll ask if he would like to make a statement on this and a couple of other points. >I doubt any independent lab would do it for free either but they may be less expensive than Kodak.< >From what Bob has previously said, only Kodak have the means to match the chemistry of the sample against their records. That's one of the points I'll raise with him". This is the result of that public correspondence with Bob and it will hopefully contain some information of interest to subscribers: Bob, To help clarify a couple of points and to basically take stock of the current situation re the question of testing the theoretical archive film, it would be appreciated if you would consider the following points and perhaps release a statement for dissemination. During the forum conference on 24 March, 1996, Ray Santilli commented: "Yes there are further plans with regard to the verification of the film and this will hopefully be done at the time of the cameramans interview However we will NOT be going to KODAK. [...] With all due respect to KODAK I simply do not trust an American corporation with lucrative defence contracts". By the 24 March, you had spent the best part of a year making arrangements with Kodak to have the testing undertaken for free, and were patiently awaiting a meaningful sample of film. When were you first aware that Kodak would in fact specifically _not_ be asked to undertake any testing? Any further comments on this subsequent refusal to involve Kodak? Although there was no known testing undertaken at the time of the "cameraman" interview, if an independent laboratory was used, would the theoretical tests be conclusive without access to Kodak's expertise and historical records? As we approach the second anniversary of the film story, do you still believe that a meaningful sample from the alleged film will be made available to you? If so, why do you still believe this will happen? If it was, what would you now do with it? Thanks. James. __________ We've gone back and forth a lot on this with Kodak. Kodak spokespersons have told others that they would test the film if brought to them, but when I have tried to do this they have backed out or changed the rules. Initially they said they only needed a tiny bit from one frame. When I informed them that I had film and would supply a frame, suddenly they needed a 20 inch strip. When it looked like I had gotten Volker convinced to provide this, they suddenly wanted a 16 foot strip. It is my belief that Kodak has never been dealing with us in good faith on this issue. Also, let me go on record to point out that not a single item of many promised by Kodak's Tony Amato has ever been mailed to me. This includes a variety of documentation promised in telephone and e-mail conversations. This is not typical of my dealings with Kodak in my magazine work. Usually anything I request is on my desk the following day. Not so on this issue. On a recent visit to a film factory of one of Kodak's competitors, I took advantage of the opportunity to discuss this problem with their chief chemical engineer and one of his associates. Both agreed that it would take a piece of film "the size of a pin head" to definitively test the acetate for vintage. They have a vast computer data base on film base materials and production dates. I have asked them to test a piece of the film for me, and they have agreed to do so if their corporate management agrees. This is going through the bureaucratic channels right now. Meanwhile, Professor Malanga did tests at the University of Pisa and pinned the film base down to one of three acetate types made by Kodak. When I asked Kodak to provide manufacturing dates for these acetate types their response was completely evasive and they did not supply this simple data. I think that tips their hand. As all should know by now, I am not a full-time investigator into this. My time is limited by the necessity of getting out a major montly magazine every month. I am spending as much time on this as I can afford, and if that produces movement which is slower than you and others like, tough. I said last year that I envisioned this as being a five year project, and nothing has come along to change my mind. Bob __________ Bob, >We've gone back and forth a lot on this with Kodak... ...It is my belief that Kodak has never been dealing with us in good faith on this issue. Also, let me go on record to point out that not a single item of many promised by Kodak's Tony Amato has ever been mailed to me. This includes a variety of documentation promised in telephone and e-mail conversations.< This seems to cut both ways. <g> I have a copy of an interview with Tony, from last year, where he states: "We were promised film back in July. we have been promised film right along on this. I was told before that we had film coming and got everyone ready to do the test as quickly and expeditiously as possible. And the film never showed up". > When I asked Kodak to provide manufacturing dates for these acetate types their response was completely evasive and they did not supply this simple data. I think that tips their hand.< In what way; are you suggesting that Tony Amato and some of his colleagues at Kodak are part of some conspiracy? >I am spending as much time on this as I can afford, and if that produces movement which is slower than you and others like, tough.< It's a tough old world. <g> The absence of any corroborative film is hardly your fault. But at what point was the decision taken not to involve Kodak in any theoretical testing - it must have been sometime before the 24 March conference? Was this Ray's decision, your recommendation, or a mutual agreement? James. __________ Tony Amato supposedly said: >"We were promised film back in July. we have been promised film right along on this. I was told before that we had film coming and got everyone ready to do the test as quickly and expeditiously as possible. And the film never showed up".< I'm sorry, but that is simply bullshit. If Amato said this, he is a liar. >In what way; are you suggesting that Tony Amato and some of his colleagues at Kodak are part of some conspiracy?< I'm not suggesting anything. Just stating facts. >The absence of any corroborative film is hardly your fault. But at what point was the decision taken not to involve Kodak in any theoretical testing - it must have been sometime before the 24 March conference? Was this Ray's decision, your recommendation, or a mutual agreement?< None of the above. It was a statement supposedly made by Ray which I knew nothing about until after the fact. Bob __________ Bob, In your statement, which Philip Mantle has now circulated, you suggest that Kodak have not "acted in good faith". Are you sure this is really supported by the evidence? During September 1995, Tony Amato was asked if he could clarify what requirements Kodak had specified for testing any film. He replied: "We don't have a requirement. All we need is a few inches of film. Mr. Shell has three frames of the film of the empty room. We can authenticate those frames, but only those frames. It was Mr. Shell that has suggested to provide an entire roll therefore the roll would be authenticated". He also commented: "Well, we haven't got any film yet to take a look at. We have been told that we will have some film and we have been waiting months now. ...Mr Shell has left me a message saying that he does have three frames to send me. But I have not seen them. ...Yes. We have to do a destruct test. But we only need two inches of film to do that. ...My position now is: we set up the test once we have the film in hand. I can't go spending peoples time on a wish". In the January 1996, Skeptics UFO Newsletter (SUN), we heard that: When we informed Blamphin* that Shell had earlier told SUN that a Kodak movie film specialist in Rochester, named Tony Amato, had agreed to test the Santilli film without charge if Shell would provide a two-inch long sample from the autopsy film [SUN #35/Sept. 1995], Blamphin said he would talk to Amato to confirm such an offer. Several days later, Blamphin confirmed Amato's offer. Shell told SUN during our Sept. 7 interview that Santilli had agreed to provide the two-inch strip of autopsy film. But when SUN next talked with Shell, on Oct. 6, he reported that Santilli's financial partner, a German named Volker Spielberg -- who, reportedly, had stored all of the original autopsy film in a Swiss vault -- had flatly refused to provide the two-inch strip that Kodak needed. Shell explained that because Spielberg had put up the money to acquire the film, he "owned it" [SUN #36, Nov. 1995]. *A spokesperson for Kodak's public affairs office. The problem at this point appears to have been the refusal, or inability, to provide a corroborative film sample. No fault of Kodak's. During October 1995, you explained the current position on the sample frames you had: Kodak has refused to do anything with this film. They want to see a strip at least 50 frames in length so they can do some sprocket spacing measurements. Spacing of sprocket holes was changed around 1960 when new equipment was installed, and Kodak can easily determine whether the film was made before or after this equipment change if given a long enough strip. Kodak also needs to see a strip which is intact from edge to edge, since this is an important measurement to determine film shrinkage. Film shrinks as it ages. Kodak also wants to perform chemical tests on a piece of film which can be firmly established to be from the same film on which the alien appears. There is no hard evidence that the film Bob Kiviat and I have is from this, only strong circumstantial evidence. That's not good enough. [End] Would you agree there was no dispute with Kodak's intentions at this point? In your latest statement you comment: "I spent a lot of time working with Ray and got Volker to agree to supply such a strip for them. At this point they said they needed 16 feet, at which point I got disgusted with them and gave up on them". It was my understanding that the only reference to "16 feet of film" was by Peter Milson, at Hemel Hempstead and had no bearing on Tony Amato or your arrangements with him. That aside, the statement that Ray/Volker had actually agreed to supply a strip of at least 50 frames in length, is central to your claim that Kodak's requirements had been met. However, on 8 December 1995, you mentioned that, "I have forwarded a detailed description of Kodak's requirements to Volker Spielberg via. Merlin, and have received a response that he is not willing to provide what they are asking at this time. He has indicated that he may soon be willing to provide "about half" of the 50 frame strip with the creature on it that Kodak wants". So, at this point, there was in fact a refusal to supply the 50 frame strip, and at best, you might some day have access to about half of what Kodak apparently now required. Then again, you might not. But the problems still all lie with the absence of any corroborative film. When were you subsequently told that the full 50 frame strip was definitely to be made available? Or was this perhaps just another indication from Ray that some day things might change. I'm trying to square this with Ray's comments from the 24 March 1996 conference, that there was no way Kodak were going to be asked to test any film in the first place. I'm also trying to square it with Ray's comments to Philip Mantle, at the end of 1995: Q: Why hasn't a segment of film showing the 'creature' on it been released for analysis. A: Plenty of film has been released with a variety of images including images of the autopsy room. Giving away film with the creature would be a last resort as the frames are far too valuable. I think it is also unnecessary as it is part of the same material already released. [End] Doesn't this confirm that there was in fact never any intention, or perhaps the ability, to provide a meaningful film sample to you? >None of the above. It was a statement supposedly made by Ray which I knew nothing about until after the fact.< The statement was made by Ray during the CompuServe conference and I believe there's still a transcript in the library. Again, if you didn't know it had been decided that Kodak would specifically be precluded from any potential testing, it does all suggest that Ray was telling you personally what he maybe thought you wanted to hear, but he knew this would never materialise. As you acknowledge, Ray is capable of doing so, although not necessarily intending to be deceitful. On the question of film verification, Ray mentioned something puzzling during that conference: Ray Santilli: Yes there are further plans with regard to the verification of the film and this will hopefully be done at the time of the cameramans interview. Q: Can you give us more details about the verification of the film you plan to do. Ray Santilli: Sorry I cannot right now apart from saying that the matter is in hand and with an independent. It did perhaps indicate a change of attitude, but I wonder.... Could this simply have been a reference to the independent testing of Philip Mantle's non-corroborative sample, which Professor Malanga was to undertake? We haven't heard of any other candidates since March of this year and Professor Malanga's testing does seem to have taken place around the same time as the "interview". It seems a reasonable assumption that's what it referred to and basically, there endeth the film "testing". On a separate matter, remember the reel of film which Michael Hesemann brought back from a trip to Roswell in early to mid 1995 and which, conversely, having access to a meaningful sample, Kodak had no problems in dating to 1945? Who had that reel processed, was it possibly Ray? In theory, any technical reason why there couldn't have been some images recovered from it, although that wasn't perhaps acknowledged? James. __________ James, On the first part of your missive, I stand by my statements that Kodak's spokesperson appears to be telling me one story and a different set of stories to others. I know now from interviewing film scientists at the lab of another major film manufacturer that only a very tiny bit of film, the size of a pin head, is needed for full analysis, and I think this makes it clear that Kodak has just been pulling our chains. Also, from the same source, I have learned that this test is simple, quick, fully automated, and very inexpensive. Five minutes lab time. Now if Kodak claims that five minutes of lab time with an automated spectrometer costs thousands of dollars, I think we can see through that. >On a separate matter, remember the reel of film which Michael Hesemann brought back from a trip to Roswell...< I do not know who actually processed the film, but processing was arranged by Ray with a lab he had worked with before. During this processing, the first fifteen feet of the film, the part which had actually been shot in the camera, disappeared and was not returned to Mike. We never have gotten a satisfactory explanation for what happened to this film. Only the unexposed 35 feet from the 50 foot cartridge was returned. The work done on this film to date and authenticate it was done by a totally different Kodak facility, and not through Kodak in Rochester. Tony Amato was not involved in this testing. Bob __________ Bob, >On the first part of your missive, I stand by my statements... I know now from interviewing film scientists at the lab of another major film manufacturer that only a very tiny bit of film, the size of a pin head, is needed for full analysis...< Possibly, but Kodak surely have the right to set out their own conditions for what they would determine as "full analysis". As I mentioned, you had explained what Kodak's exact requirements were and why, and agreed that any sample had to be of proven genesis. If another company now states they would perhaps specify less requirements than Kodak, it doesn't seem consequential that Kodak were unhelpful, or deliberately placed unnecessary obstacles in the way. It also seems irrelevant if there was never any prospect of Kodak being involved in the first place. >...and I think this makes it clear that Kodak has just been pulling our chains.< I'm afraid I can't see how that's clear at all. Again, as you reaffirmed a few months ago, "Kodak is adamant that they will test nothing unless it has the creature on it, and none of the available film does". The absence of a relevant film sample will always be the reason why Kodak weren't able to undertake any examination, no matter how many frames they specified. If Ray Santilli has suggested to you that some meaningful film will be made available, it's Ray Santilli who has been telling a different story elsewhere. As he told your colleagues: Ray Santilli: Questions and Answers by SUSAN and PHILIP MANTLE In an attempt to clarify some of the points raised in l995 regarding Ray Santilli and the alleged Roswell film footage, we put a list of questions to Ray at the end of l995. What follows are those questions and Ray Santilli's reply. Make of it what you will. Q: Why hasn't a segment of film showing the 'creature' on it been released for analysis. A: Plenty of film has been released with a variety of images including images of the autopsy room. Giving away film with the creature would be a last resort as the frames are far too valuable. I think it is also unnecessary as it is part of the same material already released. [...] Q: Can segments of the original tent footage be made available for analysis. A: See above. Q: Can segments of the debris footage be made available for analysis. A: See above. [End] I can't recall any occasion during the past year when Ray indicated his attitude had changed, except for his previously mentioned comments during the CompuServe conference. Those comments may relate only to the testing of Mantle's film strip, there's been no indication of any other planned testing. If that was the case, it seems Ray must have been involved with the planned testing of Mantle's sample - Ray stated that, "_we_ will NOT be going to Kodak" and he spoke of this some months before the testing took place. Are you aware of any other planned testing, which would specifically not involve Kodak, that might be a candidate for the testing Ray was referring to? >During this processing, the first fifteen feet of the film, the part which had actually been shot in the camera, disappeared and was not returned to Mike. We never have gotten a satisfactory explanation for what happened to this film.< But presumably you have both asked for one - what was Ray's answer? I suppose the next question asks itself; is there any reason why some or all of the film samples given out by Ray couldn't possibly have come from that missing fifteen feet of film? I know it would be a very fortuitous set of images if that was the case, the chances are that any recoverable images wouldn't be remotely usable in connection with the "autopsy footage". If the samples were handed out before Ray had possession of this reel, that alone would obviously answer the question. James. __________ >I suppose the next question asks itself; is there any reason why some or all of the film samples given out by Ray couldn't possibly have come from that missing fifteen feet of film?< Yes. It was a different type of film. Bob [End] Hopefully, at least some issues further clarified. One issue which hasn't been, relates to the last public comments I can trace from Ray Santilli about any film testing. These were the previously mentioned comments during the CompuServe MUFON forum Conference and I believe that's the only occasion I have seen or heard Ray indicate he had any such intentions. This is perhaps a significant factor and it's maybe not generally appreciated just how many times Ray said he was satisfied that the film had been authenticated, e.g., on 3 November 1995: Q: Has the authenticity of the film been definitely proven? A: 100% by me, for other people I don't know. If the planned testing which Ray mentioned during the 24 March conference related to Philip Mantle's sample (which does not contain any images from the central "autopsy" footage), it posed some questions about Ray's involvement with that testing. I've asked Ray if that's what he meant and I also asked Philip Mantle about that possibility. I put it to Philip: "For the following reasons, it's now assumed that this independent testing was in fact the testing of your sample: 1. At the end of 1995, in your Q + A text file, Ray told Sue and yourself that any further samples were "unnecessary". 2. The timescale of the testing was around the time of the cameraman "interview". 3. Kodak would specifically not be involved and it would be an "independent". 4. There was no other known testing planned, or which took place. Would you agree that what Ray was referring to was the testing of your film strip and not some other independent testing, which Bob Shell seems to know nothing about?" Philip replied that he had no idea which film testing Ray was referring to, "although it is logical to "assume" that it was the sample that I sent to Italy". I pointed out to Philip that, if the assumption were correct, then Ray must have known the testing was planned and the fact that Ray was giving the impression he was responsible for initiating the Italian testing was obviously of interest. I asked Philip if he could confirm whether, as at 24 March, Ray knew of the plans for the testing of Philip's sample. Unfortunately, Philip has now responded that he has said all he can and has nothing further to add. The first public mention of the testing seems to have been in June of last year and Bob Shell confirmed that, "Ray has nothing to do with this testing. Philip Mantle and I instigated it". Bob further explained, "I've grown tired of being yelled at for not testing any film. Kodak is adamant that they will test nothing unless it has the creature on it, and none of the available film does. So they are out of the picture. Philip Mantle and I have arranged for a highly credentialed European laboratory to do a chemical analysis of a small piece of film which came into Phil's possession last year". Rob Irving then asked Bob, "What's the point in testing a film sample when there's no evidence that it's part of the autopsy footage? What would that prove?" Bob duly responded, "Simple question, simple answer: There's no real point in testing any of this film that is available. But some people are convinced that there is a point, so I am willing to go along with this to the extent of assisting in testing and interpretation of results. If it had been up to me alone, I wouldn't be wasting time on testing this stuff". It was Theresa Carlson who next asked Bob a key question, "Did you say that you and Mantle set up these tests, and Ray wasn't aware or involved?" Bob replied, "I do not know if Ray is aware of these tests or not. I haven't discussed it with him. However, he was not involved in getting it set up. Philip Mantle did this. My involvement is to tell the lab what to test for, and hopefully make some sense of the results when they are in. Results will be shared with Ray, of course, since the piece of film actually belongs to him, as do all the pieces "loaned" to investigators". I then asked Bob, "Does Philip have Italian colleagues with the required expertise, or does he mean that his colleagues are simply organising the testing; if the latter, the obvious question is why? Philip is I believe on good terms with Maurizio Baiata in Italy and perhaps this is the "Italian connection"". Bob confirmed that, "Yes, our friend Maurizio is in fact the one arranging the tests, which are being done by a prestigeous Italian university laboratory". There seems to be a conflicting perspective on the question of who initiated the testing, why, and who was responsible for the arrangements, however, the "highly credentialed European laboratory" was apparently that of Philip Mantle's colleague, Professor Corrado Malanga, a chemist at the University of Pisa. This wasn't quite the independent testing that it might seem; the person arranging the testing, "our friend" Maurizio Baiata, was also Ray Santilli's business agent in Italy. Both Malanga and Baiata are Directors of Centro Ufologico Nazionale (CUN), and both individually and via that organisation have vehemently promoted the authenticity of the "autopsy" footage. Long before this testing took place, RAI2, the Italian TV channel, featured a program on the "alien autopsy" film story and the "pro" side of the invited guests included Malanga, Baiata and Mantle. There is of course no reason why Philip Mantle shouldn't arrange, via Baiata, for Malanga to have tested the film sample and there's no suggestion that the results, which didn't seem to determine anything of major significance, were compromised. At the moment the question remains; is there any reason to believe that Ray Santilli has, or ever had, the intention or the ability to provide a significant sample of the claimed 16mm film for analysis, irrespective of whether the film is allegedly held by himself or Volker Spielberg. Judging by what Ray himself has said publicly, there seems to be a strong case that he has never had any such intention and doesn't even consider it to be an issue. If Ray clarifies matters further - some questions he answers, some he doesn't - I've asked if I can pass on his comments. Both Philip Mantle and Bob Shell are of course more than welcome to do likewise. As indeed is anyone else. James. Internet; pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 CNI News Interview with Philip Mantle From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:46:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:46:10 -0500 Subject: CNI News Interview with Philip Mantle CNI News is a twice-monthly electronic newsletter addressing UFO phenomena, claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and related issues, including the cultural and political impacts of contact with other intelligent life. CNI News is edited by Michael Lindemann and distributed by the 2020 Group. Prior to October 1, 1996, CNI News was published under the name ISCNI*Flash. CNI News is a subscription newsletter. First-time recipients may receive two free issues before subscribing. CNI researchers, educators and organizations may qualify for a complimentary subscription. For more information on how to subscribe, please see the notice at the end of this issue. Questions and comments may be addressed to: Editor, CNINews1@aol.com. The subject matter of CNI News is inherently controversial, and the views and opinions reported herein are not necessarily those of the editorial staff. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== QUOTABLE: "From an anthropological point of view, space exploration must be undertaken not only out of simple human curiosity but also to further ensure the survival of the species. The twentieth century has seen unprecedented development and proliferation of magnificent technologies. Many of them, though, through design, ignorance, or misuse, are capable of destroying life as well as enhancing it. Space exploration alone holds the promise of eventual escape from a dying planet, provided that we wisely manage our resources in the meantime and actually survive that long." -- Dr. Edgar Mitchell, "The Way of the Explorer" ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== CNI NEWS INTERVIEWS UFO RESEARCHER PHILIP MANTLE UK Expert Says Santilli Autopsy Film May Be Authentic [Philip Mantle has investigated UFO cases in the UK for more than 16 years as an associate of BUFORA, the British UFO Research Association. For the past three years he served as BUFORA's Director of Investigations, a post he recently resigned; and he remains on BUFORA's Board of Directors. In 1994, he co-authored with Carl Nagaitis a book on abductions in the UK titled "Without Consent." In 1997, his next book will appear, co-authored with German researcher Michael Hesemann, titled "Beyond Roswell." In this book, Mantle will discuss the possibility that the controversial "Santilli Alien Autopsy Film" may be authentic. Mantle is 38 years of age and lives in the town of Batley, in West Yorkshire, with his wife Sue and their two children. CNI News editor Michael Lindemann interviewed Philip Mantle on November 16, 1996, when they met at a conference in Blackpool, England. Thanks to Celeste for assistance in transcribing the interview.] ML: Apart from your UFO research, what do you do for a living? PM: I've been employed at the same company now for the last 17 years. We manufacture lithographic printing plates in huge quantities. That's what pays the mortgage and feeds the children. ML: Did you ever serve in the military? PM: No, I've never been in the military. ML: You've been associated with BUFORA for a long time. When and how did your interest in UFOs begin? PM: My interest in UFOs began in about 1978, quite by accident. I was with a friend in Wiltshire, in the west country of England. We were actually amateur astronomers. I've been interested in astronomy ever since the moon landings, as a young boy. We'd gone to visit a gentleman [who'd] built himself a small observatory. On this particular evening -- I can't remember exactly why -- we couldn't use the telescope. I was loaned a book on UFOs, basically dismissing them, and it mentioned the town of Walmingston in Wiltshire. To my surprise, we were some eight or ten miles away from this town. So, quite literally, we had nothing better to do on that particular evening, [and] we drove to the town. We found the local vantage point which was mentioned in the book, called Bradle Hill, [and] perched ourselves on the hilltop. There were other people there. We saw an orange light descend that we couldn't identify in astronomical terms. It wasn't the stars, the planets, meteors, so on. We were completely ignorant of the surrounding area, having never been there before. With the benefit of hindsight, it was probably something to do with the military -- there is a military garrison there, and they do military maneuvers in the area. It may have been a flare, or something like that. But at that time we didn't know that, and that sparked the interest. I had a prior interest also in the paranormal. And I decided at that point to find out for myself what this thing was. And it mentioned the British UFO Research Association in the book, and even gave an address for them. So I thought, well, I'll write to these people. That was in 1978. I eventually joined BUFORA, and also a local organization which I happened across in Yorkshire, just outside of Leeds. And that's how my interest started, quite by chance. Had it not been cloudy that particular evening, the probability is that I wouldn't be speaking to you today. ML: Apart from that first serendipitous event, have you had any other sightings or unusual experiences that you think were UFOs? PM: The only thing that I would classify as a UFO that I've seen, personally, took place on July 23, 1984, at about 9:55 p.m. At my job, I have to work shifts. I finished early that evening, at about 9:50. I wasn't married at that time. I was driving home to my parents' house, on a long straight road. As I turned the car onto the main highway, I could see these lights in the sky. It was a beautiful summer's evening; it wasn't dark, there was still a red glow in the sky. And I knew, because of my background in astronomy, that it wasn't Venus, etc., and that it shouldn't have been there. There was still the possibility that it was an aircraft, because there is an airport in Leeds. So I drove to a vantage point where I knew I could see the whole city of Leeds and the valley below me. It wasn't one light, it was two lights, side by side, extremely large. They were like a pearly white, an off-white color. They weren't bright to the eyes, they didn't hurt the eyes, but they were bright, nevertheless; [and] something like 30 degrees above the horizon. They were over a suburban town of Leeds called Middleton, only a couple of miles from where I was. Completely stationary. And [they] disappeared before my eyes -- didn't go up or down, left or right, [they] just went. In the course of our investigations, lots of people, probably well into three figures, eventually came forward who had observed the same thing that night, not just around Leeds, but across the north of England, from the East Coast from Humberside, right across Yorkshire and into parts of North Yorkshire as well. ML: You've probably investigated some pretty unusual cases. What do you think is the most impressive UFO case you've ever been involved with? PM: In the summer of 1979, I had only been involved for about a year. And not far from where I used to live, at my parents' house, there is a town called Normanton, basically a mining community. A lady [there] phoned me, and her first words were, "You won't believe what I'm about to tell you. You won't believe this." So I persuaded her to tell me the story. And colleagues and I eventually went to see her. She related an observation, in daylight, in the summer. The children -- she had five children -- were outside playing a ballgame, and the ball rose into the air, and they saw this thing that they called an aeroplane, actually land in some fields adjacent to the houses. They ran inside. "Mum, mum, there is an aeroplane crashed in the fields." She took a walk outside and from her front door she could see across these fields. And she described to us a gray-colored object -- [she said it] looked like a Mexican hat -- actually on the ground in the field. They decided to take a closer look. They walked across the fields. At one point you go down a small dip, and you lose sight of this area. When they came up the other side of the dip, not only was this thing still there, but there were three tall men in white boiler-suits, completely covered with a visor over their faces. They got so close, they could make out that [the men] didn't have gloves, they were wearing mittens; and they could see the wedge-shaped boots they were wearing, and some kind of instrument in their hands. The field was bordered by a fence, at which they stopped. The lady was quite perturbed at this point, but the children were totally fearless and wanted to climb the fence and get over into the field. It was at this point that the three men appeared to notice the children's presence, and the lady as well. They walked to the rear of this thing. [Then] it rose vertically, stopped in midair, and took off at a great speed, without making a sound. And these are just a farmer's fields, that they grew some grass in. There are electricity pylons there. There is a power station quite nearby. My colleagues and I tried extensively to come up with a solution to this. The lady didn't want any publicity. She wore curlers, for example, when we went to interview her and she wouldn't allow a photograph. She was married to a coal miner. My father was a coal miner for 40 years, so I'm used to associating with this type of person. The two conclusions that I could draw were that they were either all lying, or they had seen something quite bizarre, and I had no evidence to suggest that they were lying. ML: Did you talk to the children? PM: Oh yes, we interviewed all of the children, all separately. They did drawings for us. They never called it a flying saucer or UFO or spaceship, just this thing and these tall men. Not spacemen, but these tall men. And, you know, we examined the field. There were no traces, no nothing, which is not uncommon, of course. It made a great impression on me. Bear in mind, I had only been involved in this subject for about a year, although colleagues who were with me had been involved much longer, and had much more experience than I had. So we worked together on this. But it just made a very distinct impression. She was a very down-to-earth lady, no nonsense, the type of person that I've grown up with all of my life. And what it was, I couldn't honestly say. ML: How long after the event itself were you actually on the scene? PM: We were there within about three or four days. ML: And you went to the site but couldn't find any trace that this thing had been there? PM: None whatsoever. There was not even a flattened blade of grass. Nothing. ML: Did she indicate that the thing was standing on legs? PM: No, no. This was flat down on the ground. No legs, no wheels, no protrusions. She also described it as looking like a military tank, but without the gun turret. But her first impression was that it looked like a Mexican hat, but dull gray in color. That's how she described it. ML: Fascinating. Let's cut to a more recent case. You've had quite extensive contact with Ray Santilli, and have had plenty of opportunity to examine the controversy of the autopsy film. What is your current view of the film? PM: For a long time, in private conversations with Ray, I told him in no uncertain terms that I didn't believe a word of it. Not that I didn't believe him -- I couldn't accept the film, for a whole variety of reasons. When I became involved with him, it was my intention to expose the film to the public domain, not necessarily for the ufologists, but for the members of a variety of different professions, to see what they could make of the film. When I first saw some of the film, which was some 18 months after my first contact with Ray, I asked him three questions: 1) Could we have a piece of the film to analyze? (He said "maybe"); 2) Could I speak to the cameraman? (He said "no"); and 3) Would he show it at a conference I was planning later that year? (To my surprise, he said "yes.") I knew from my past experience that the film's association with the conference would release it into the public domain; the two would go hand-in-hand. That way, if it was fake, or genuine, or whatever, there was always the possibility that somebody out there would know something more about it and would come forward. What I and others have tried to do, to give you one example, is to show the film to members of the medical community -- physicians, surgeons, pathologists, not just in England or in the United States, but around the world. The film has been shown at the Academy of Sciences in Moscow, for example, to friends and colleagues of ours who are scientists with the Academy. And a [Russian] gentleman, whose name I cannot pronounce without my notes -- formerly the head pathologist for the Russian Army -- claims that the creature is flesh and blood, and gives a variety of technical reasons as to why he believes that. Other colleagues and associates showed it in Norway. It was shown at a conference of pathologists in Switzerland, and they came to the same conclusion: it was flesh and blood. By all means, not all surgeons believe that, but quite a large percentage of them do. Dr. Roger Leir [California-based podiatrist and "alien implant" researcher] gave a number of reasons why he believes the film is genuine. For example, at one point [in the film] they flex the damaged leg, and Dr. Leir says that if you study it closely and slowly, you can see the thigh muscles moving. For special effects to do that -- it's not impossible, but only the trained eye was able to observe that. I have looked at it and I have seen something move, but I would never recognize it as the thigh muscle, as I'm not a physician. Even more recently, in Japan, a pathologist there who has seen part of the film has claimed that it is flesh and blood. So that kind of evidence swayed my opinion that perhaps what we are looking at is an authentic piece of film -- of what, I don't think I'm qualified to say. I'm not sure anyone is, to be honest. But the creature has no navel, and every human born, irrespective of genetic defects or otherwise, has a navel. And we have to remember also that there are two autopsy films. Only one has ever been released into the public domain. There are two, similar looking creatures. I have seen the two -- I've seen both of them. So if it was some kind of deformed human creature, for example, it would probably have to be twins. And neither of them had a navel. But they would have to have had parents, [and] doctors, to look after them for many years. You would have expected them to have been written up in some medical literature somewhere, because they are so unique. When the film was aired back in 1995 on television, Professor Christopher Milroy, a pathologist in the UK , stated that he expected to find it somewhere in the medical literature. But no one ever has. So, it kind of narrows it down as to what it may be, and what we are looking at. I don't know. But it was the medical opinion that swayed me. ML: Have you had any contact with the person you think is the cameraman? PM: We've tried very hard to get to him, through Santilli. On June 22, I believe, of 1995, Ray Santilli phoned me at about 7:30 [pm], and he said that the cameraman would phone me at some point that evening. He didn't know when, but he advised me to keep the lines clear. Just before 9:00 pm that same evening, the telephone rang and a gentleman introduced himself as the cameraman. We had a 15-minute conservation. He retold the story that's been released everywhere, of how he filmed the events and kept hold of the film. I pointed out to him [that he] could be phoning from a call box at the end of my street. I had no way of knowing that this was even a transatlantic call. And he appreciated that. The gentleman said, "Have you got any more questions for me?" [I said], "I've got about a thousand, but I would like to put them to you face-to-face. It's no good on the telephone." Had I put questions to him, they were worthless because I couldn't even guarantee who he was, so I would have been criticized whichever way I went. So, in my opinion, I felt it was better to try to build a bridge with this gentleman, whoever he may be, just in case there was the remote chance that we might get to meet face-to-face. I put that to him, and he said that he wouldn't rule it out at some point in the future. So, that future hasn't arrived yet. We have never met. But I remain optimistic. ML: Did you tape-record that conversation? PM: I didn't. I didn't have the facilities at that time to be able to tape record telephone conversations. And in the short notice that I had, of Ray ringing me and saying he will phone now, I wasn't sure where I could go to get those facilities. So, unfortunately not. ML: You're about to release a new book. Can you describe it briefly? PM: I co-authored a book with Michael Hesemann from Germany, called "Beyond Roswell." We've put our arguments for the Santilli film's authenticity into this book -- that's about four chapters of a 16-chapter book. We've also reiterated the conventional Roswell story, and we've mentioned the controversy around the MJ-12 and Area 51. We have tried to place the Santilli film in what we believe is the correct context, and it will be up to the readership to either accept [our] argument or to refute it. But we've also put out a request for further information. Someone, somewhere, other than Ray Santilli, knows something about this film, but they aren't saying. [I've been] asked what my reaction would be if the film was proved to be a fake. Well, if it was proved to be a fake, I can accept that. If someone comes forward who can prove that it is not authentic -- one of the actors that's in it, for example, would be a good idea -- then, fine. But until that time comes, I remain optimistic that it is the genuine article. ML: It's been pointed out that the story about the film doesn't seem to square with the standard Roswell timeline. Is it your view that, if it's authentic, it's associated with a different set of events than Roswell? PM: On the surface it appears to be a different set of events. The cameraman claims that it took place on May 31, [1947], in New Mexico but nearer to Socorro, for example. And we have located a number of potential witnesses to an event on that evening. They were Native American Indians who were children at that time, and they used to play outside at night because it was cooler. They observed a meteorite or a fireball, and it lit up their faces, it was so bright. And one of the little girls remembers it for a particular reason, because she had a coin in her mouth as she was playing, and she actually swallowed the coin. Another of the girls -- it was her birthday, so that's why she remembers the date. They've grown up and moved from the area. And they have been interviewed. So there are potential witnesses to something on that particular evening. There is also Indian folklore about beings with six fingers and six toes, and there are even glyphs in the canyons where the Indians lived, for example, glyphs with six-fingered and six-toed beings. Probably irrelevant, but at least there is a folkloric, historical precedent for that kind of thing. So, having said that, it wouldn't surprise me that there was a connection somewhere with the accepted events of Roswell. But it appears to be a different event. ML: You're undoubtedly aware that many people believe we're heading toward some sort of official revelation, or perhaps some kind of breakthrough discovery that will establish the reality of UFO phenomena once and for all. On the other hand, more skeptical people, including some ufologists, point out that such expectations have been around for decades, and nothing really seems to change. What's your personal view? Are we getting somewhere, or are we sort of treading water, or beating a dead horse? PM: I think we are getting somewhere. I think the possibilities of what may be about to happen or what the final solution may be are narrowing. And that's for a whole variety of reasons. Public interest, [for example], which can be changed to public pressure. More and more officials, in a variety of capacities, are becoming involved. [Ministry of Defense official] Nick Pope is a primary example, of course. In the past, they've just completely pooh-poohed it. And I think there has been a great change in atmosphere, like in the media, certainly in the UK, where they've looked at the subject much more seriously. I think it all started with the Belgium affair in 1989 and 1990. So I think there is a general movement in the right direction. How long that will last or whether it will continue is, you know, another argument, but I think it's certainly to be encouraged. ML: One more question. There is some confusion, at least in the States, about your current status with BUFORA. Can you explain that, please? PM: Yes. I was BUFORA's director of investigations for almost three years, and I planned to relinquish the job in April of next year just because of family pressures. I have two young daughters, ages four and seven. I work rather long hours in my job, as well. And I couldn't, in my opinion, give the [BUFORA] job enough time, so I was going to stand down. I had already groomed my deputy, a lady by the name of Gloria Dixon, to be my replacement. But there was a degree of confusion, so Gloria has actually taken over for me now. But I am still on the Board of Directors of BUFORA. They have a ruling body, the BUFORA Council, on which I am still a serving member. I also stood down as BUFORA's conference organizer. Again, it's very time consuming. And at work, I was also a union steward for the best part of ten years. I stood down from that at the end of last year. So it's been a gradual relinquishing of certain things that were extremely time-consuming. I want to spend [more] time with my two daughters. My youngest daughter starts full-time school next year. So rather than disappoint people, let people down, I gave up the tasks. ML: Thanks, Philip, for sharing your thoughts and experiences with CNI News. Is there anything more you'd like to say in closing? PM: Again, if anyone has any information about the Santilli autopsy film, positive or negative -- not opinions, as they don't count for anything -- we would like to hear from them. Somebody out there, other than Ray Santilli, knows more about this film. And I'm determined that eventually, if it takes the next 10 years, we'll get to the bottom of it, one way or the other. I still pester Ray on a regular basis. I don't see him very often -- I live 200 miles north of London, and perhaps I've seen him twice this year -- but I keep reminding him on the fax or by email, or on the telephone. And I remain optimistic that we will get to the bottom of it. Time will tell if we are correct. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== Except as otherwise noted, the entire text of CNI News is copyright 1996/1997 by the 2020 Group. As a condition of receiving CNI News, all recipients agree not to post CNI News on any Newsgroup, Web site, BBS or similar electronic location, nor redistribute CNI News by any electronic means, except for the express purpose of encouraging others to subscribe, or unless with prior permission of the editor. In general, electronic posting or redistribution of single articles or short excerpts from CNI News will be approved, provided credit is given to the author and CNI News in every instance. Hard copy (paper) reproduction and redistribution of CNI News, in whole or part, for educational purposes is permitted.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 00:05:19 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:11:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 17:58:56 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Moon 'Photos'? >Bob Shell <76750.2717@CompuServe.Com> wrote : >>The article is well worth a looksee. I'd value your opinion on these >>photos and his comments. Are we looking at a 27 year old hoax? Sure looks >>like it. Other than a studio setup, I can think of no explanation for >>the oddities in the lighting. >Here's a thought ... could another lighting source have been the miles high >glass structures reflecting and refracting sunlight at multiple angles? >Regards, >JJ Mercieca Here's another thought. Perhaps it was the flat Earth used as a giant reflector? Drew Williamson (Professional Photographer)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Alfred's Odd Ode #72 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 07:17:45 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:13:59 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #72 Now I beat a retreat to the fabled land To get my ticket punched. So culture=92s web can weave me in --=20 Work *well* with others =96 be part of a bunch! The land is academic, =20 It=92s college to a few. You pay big bucks to go there. What you leave with=92s up to you. I go to be a teacher, To give our folks some tools. But I=92ll swim with the disabled As what=92s least -- are not -- our fools. You=92d want that too, let me assure At the tired end of your forties A hired gun for too many years I=92ve Regrets, made mistakes, been un-sporting. The point is now just coming round -- I am flatly loath to tell you. An education this late in life Can cripple, wound, and BLESS you. We need a crippling warning As no one talks *sick bees*. Why they=92re dying inexplicably, Bringing nature to her knees. Laugh and snicker at your peril! Think five legged frogs are funny? You=92ll find another mouth to laugh from When those frogs _cost_ *all* your money! But that=92s another issue -- Just the fact that we despise =20 This precious jewel we live on. The fault? Elitist lies!! I will only comment sparingly In pursuit of my credentials. =20 As this ticket punch takes all my time As I prefer the Chancellor=92s initials. But that=92s the point! I=92ve learned considerable! Schooling puts an edge on me Pro-social, fair, and liberal. What see you, when you see a stranger? I=92ll tell you what I see! There=92s 96 chances in a 100 It=92s someone who takes care of me! That man with a scar keeps my airplane That boy with a lisp keeps my cloths That girl over there with the purple hair Keeps my streets all swept clean of the snow. But the folks who keep us all metered They know, and they fear and despise -- How their white bread world comes crashing down If the masses routinely self actualize. That=92s why Hale-Bopp puts a knot in a tail. That=92s why scientists get all vitriolic. Comfortable rules get all sticky and gummy Learning is no longer safe, and bucolic. Some have a fortune they see go away. Some want things just as they are. But I see a greater potential from us, And I *know* that it comes from the stars. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Pencils, text, and note book in hand =96 I continue my investigation of US. See you when I can. And to those that have sent it =96 "thanks for the fish"!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: 'Backlash' From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 05:21:27 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:12:45 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:41:50 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' > References: <2.2.32.19970101203638.006e703c@mail.globalserve.net> > > > From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' > > > >All doable with off-the-shelf, relatively inexpensive technology. > > > And very little technical knowledge. Any reasonably handy soldering > > iron handler should be able to build these componants inexpensively > > and reliably from mail order parts. > > Yep, basic technical knowledge. If you can set up a PC from out of the > box you could probably get an inexpensive monitoring system up and > running. This should be the goal of EVERY serious abduction researcher. In fact, it should probably be the definition of what a serious abduction researcher is. First, deal with the psychological trauma, without judgement or interest in the potential alien knowledge. Then deal with the assumed cause of the trauma through monitoring. (I'm going to drop the polite nature for a moment, John, please forgive me.) It is absolutely unthinkable and a black mark on those scientifically and ethically interested in UFOs that there are self-claimed abduction researchers (Yes, Greg, I mean that in a negative sense) who are using their knowledge of psychology and therapy, either hypno-thearpy or otherwise, to gain knowledge about an alleged experience, and then will report on that alleged experience without attempting to verify the experience physically. In other fields of psycology, this is resulting in license revocation. Most specifically, in cases of child abuse that never occured, yet the therapist assured both the police and the courts that it did. And in at least one case, licenses were removed from therapists who misused their position in relation to an alien abduction case. Today, respected therapists work with other agencies when a psycological trauma is discovered. These auxillary agencies help identify the real worlds, physical source of the problem, while the therapist helps with the psycological trauma that is the result. Such common sense approaches are absent in UFOlogy today. > > >This is definitely an invasion of the individual's privacy, but > > >there's no way around that. For obvious reasons we would want a way > > >to allow the individual to turn on/off the gear (some of the gear) at > > >certain times. > > > I also think that we, the researchers, should be able to turn the gear > > off without the knowledge of the subject. > > Why? To prevent convenant abductions during known off times. > > However, there would have to be some > > strict times when the subject could not turn the gear off. More > > importantly, this invasion of privacy would have to have the assurance > > that disclusure would be limited to relevant information. We can't be > > telling the world that our subject looks like Steven Segal but dresses > > like Mea West. > > Hahahaha!!! I don't know enough legalese to get very specific but I > think we'd want something like a contract, somethng that specifies > ownership of the data, who can do what with the data, etc. I don't > think this would be very difficult to put together. I think the > personal data belongs to the person, I mean any data associated with > that person's _name_, and any impersonal data belongs to the group doing > the monitoring. We'd also want some stipulation as to timing of > publishing. Absolutely. Michael
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 08:30:31 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:17:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:47:03 +0100 (MET) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > >>As previously mentioned, Dr. James McDonald brought his findings > >>before several scientific groups. > Jerry, > Regarding the number of Bluebook unknowns, McDonald felt that the > actual number of true unknowns was much higher. He wrote: > "The Bluebook position has for years been that UFOs are almost > entirely such misidentifieds, and Bluebook has repeatedly asserted > that their small percentage of unidentifieds would fall into that > category if more adequate data were at hand. After studying hundreds > of their cases, I do not agree. I say instead that adequate and open- > minded scrutiny of the roughly 12,000 cases now on file at Air Force > Project Bluebook would probably raise the percentage of unidentifieds > from the currently acknowledged few per cent to perhaps 30-40 percent." > UFOs -- An International Scientific Problem. Paper Presented at the > Canadian Aeronautics and Space Institute Astronautics Symposium, > Montreal, Canada, March 12, 1968 This is interesting, but besides the point. When the 4602d AISS first started their investigations, their unidentified level was very high. Of course, some of this can be attributed to the learning curve. However, it soon came down. They applied little tricks to get it down that I have discussed in other posts. One example concern a GOC post where the woman on duty called the Filter Center to ask if Mars had risen yet. It became a UFO case. When sent a questionnaire, the lady said she was sure that she had seen Mars and just wanted to confirm the time of rising. This incident remained a UFO case in 4602d AISS files. "Insufficient Information" as Hynek said was usually insufficient follow up, and, really in a some cases, a trick to get rid of truly puzzling cases. The Air Force had no firm criteria as to what was a case. Sometimes a two paragraph clipping has a case file while a complete investigation by Air Force personnel of an Air Force case on a completed AF Form 112 is listed as "Not a case--Information only." The OSI files at the end of the Project Blue Book microfilm contain many cases not in Project Blue Book's files. Hynek's reevaluation of Air Force files did not change the total of unidentified greatly. See, THE HYNEK UFO REPORT, P.298. Another argument could be made that the Air Force system increase the number of unidentified because cases determined to be IFOs at an place in the chain were not forwarded. From the unit histories I have posted you can see this in operation. However, there is another reason, I am interested in finding cases in unit histories. They generally tell where in local file the cases are found. All that you have to have is a commander who says "There will be no UFO reports in this command." Boom. There are none. (I am interested in the these local files as a possible of source of new official material.) My search of Navy logs tends to confirms this. Even before UFOs, there was a bias against recording unusual events because the deck officers were afraid of embarrassing the Captain. So when the rough log was transferred to final version, these things just fell out. Once again, in the HYNEK REPORT you will find a series of reports off Korea by the carrier Phillipine Sea and the battleship Missouri involving in some cases radar visual sighting. These are official reports sent through Navy channels and to the AF, but search the ships' logs in the Task Forces, and you find nothing except a sighting of a green meteor. Whether the percentage of unknowns is 30% or 5% is besides the point. Arguments can be made in either direction, just the define the sample in different ways. The true unknowns are not in the majority, granted. Despite the arguments of USAF, MOD, DND, this is irrelevant. It is like saying amount of the isotope U235 compared to the amount of Uranium is not significant. > And for those who are interested, Brian Zeiler and I have a special > page dedicated to James McDonald at: > http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/papers_e.htm > Jean Excellent! McDonald's work is a great counter weight to foolishness and fuzzy headedness seen in some of ufology.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:10:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:16:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >Ever hear of a fellow by the name of David Percy? He's ARPS as well as >member of the British Industrial & Scientific Film Association according >to his bio. >He's written a piece in the January issue of Fortean Times (English mag, >but sold on many US news stands) in which he purports to show that NASA's >Apollo moon photos are studio fakes. Worth taking a look at, since the >points he makes are quite valid and require explanation from NASA. Also worth pointing out that several colour photographs of these NASA/Lunar anomalies can be found in an article on said subject on pages 65-69 of "The Unopened Files" - which appeared on the newsstands here in Britain on 29 September '96. The "Fortean Times" article is a splendid effort and one I have commended to many people interested in this extremely curious puzzle. It's nothing new of course, the stories (and photographic anomalies) have been circulating for years, but now there is the means and will to circulate them to an even wider audience. There is an equally fascinating article on the same topic (NASA, ASTRONAUTS AND THE MOON) contained in "The Brazilian UFO Report" magazine (January/February 1997 * Vol 2 Issue 8), written by its publisher Michael Wysmierski who resides in Londrina. I had the pleasure of meeting Michael at the Curitiba UFO Conference in Brazil (7-9 June '96). He raises several points of key interest: Apollo 13 astronaut Fred Haise never got to the Moon of course, but quoting Buzz Aldrin from his book RETURN TO EARTH... "The highlight of the evening was a film showing Fred Haise, my back-up on the flight to the Moon, stumbling around on the surface of the Moon until, in desperation, he retreated to the lunar lander which, the moment he stepped on the ladder, tumbled into pieces around him." If anyone can find a record at NASA which has Fred Haise walking on the Moon please let me know! Michael touches upon the absence of dust in photographs of the Apollo XIV LEM, raises the curious fact that poor television pictures from the Apollo II and 12 missions were filmed from NASA's large screen in the operations room at the insistence of NASA (why not plug in a simple coaxial connector and jacks to relay better images), but the really HOT STUFF is saved for the end piece. Michael took a photograph (taken by a NASA photographer) from astronaut Michael Collins' book CARRYING THE FIRE. It shows Collins practising for a space walk inside an aircraft (flying an outside loop to temporarily eliminate gravity). Collins is seen holding the jet reaction propulsion rod in his right hand. Another famous photograph has Collins holding the jet reaction propulsion rod with his left hand while outside his Gemini 10 capsule - he is, to all intent and purposes, out in space. That photograph is NASA picture #66-40127. The point, as you have probably guessed by now, is that the two photographs are identical - the negative has been reversed for the 'space walk' shot and background features of the interior of the aircraft blacked out. It's clearly the same photograph - right down to the soles of Collins' boots. Michael does not have an e-mail address, but he can be reached on (43) 336-3719 The Brazilian UFO Report Rua Fernando de Noronha 741/604 86020-260 Londrina, PR, Brazil All the best, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:05:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:15:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >I don't personally think that FTL is impossible, we just haven't figured >it out yet. If I had to guess I'd guess that we'll first figure out how >to modulate data over FTL speeds. That would radically change robotic >space exploration. Good guess! (I agree.) >But in certain areas, especially in ufology, I think its real important >to stick with what we know, (what we really know), until we've exhausted >all that we know, before moving into stuff we aren't so sure about. I think the most compelling argument is "until we've exhausted all that we know..." I think we've done that...and must continue to do so with with all new data. I agree in principle, especially to rule out all that can be explained by what we know. However, we do have a considerable fund of data that cannot be explained by what we "really" know for certain. Therefore, it seems necessary to consider other well-developed and considered hypothetical positions to determine if these positions offer a more reasonable or consistent explanation. It seems reasonable to search through other "alternative explanations" as long as these "alternatives" are or have been presented in our more traditional scientific journals and that these positions are presented in accord with our traditional scientific method (or an alternative method) as long as the presentation is logical, consistent and compelling. I believe that our search for understanding compels us to explore every "reasonable" avenue. The realm of "ufology" is especially compelling. A reasonable next step is to identify a list of "alternative positions" to consider. Rupert Sheldrake's theory of morphic resonance would be another reasonable candidate high on my own list. Regards, Ernie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 'UpDates' Instant Archive Now Available on Web From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:19:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:19:34 -0500 Subject: 'UpDates' Instant Archive Now Available on Web Please read the following announcement, suggestions and my comments in []s _carefully_ and abide by the rules for posting. I must emphasize that in order for the List and Archive to function together, the rules laid out below _will_ be enforced. It will benefit us all. both now and in the future. ebk ------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:10:31 -0800 To: updates@globalserve.net From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Subject: UFO UpDates Instant Archive Now Available on Web For your browsing pleasure, messages from UFO UpDates are now archived immediately on the web at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates The last three days' messages are listed on the main page. Older messages are listed by month. The archive was started on Dec. 12, and we hope to maintain it forever. This automated archive is provided as a public service by the Area 51 Research Center (i.e. "me"). I wrote the software for this because I found the mailing list interesting, but I couldn't deal with the email load generated every day. The Research Center has no control over content, and all editorial decisions are still made by Errol. When posting messages to the list, I hope people will observe these rules in deference to the web version: -- Make sure your subject line is as descriptive as possible. On the web, as in email, if people aren't interested in your subject line, they aren't going to look at your message. -- Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are responding to. [Excessive quoting will result in your message being returned to you] -- Start each quoted line with a greater-than sign (>) as the first character. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. [Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol will not be posted to UFO Updates] -- Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it it contains new information that you want EVERYONE to see. -- URLs _must_ include http:// and be on one line in order to be a 'clickable' link to that address. -- My preference: Don't send long documents that are already on the web. Just send an URL and a brief synopsis instead. The aims are.... -- To provide people with an alternate way to view the messages at their leisure. Instead of dealing with dozens of email messages, you can just check the web every few days. [Some subscribers complain that the volume of traffic is "too much" and for them the Archive will be a comfortable alternative.] Through the magic of computer technology, new messages are added to the web immediately. -- To provide messages in a convenient format, with headers minimized and URLs activated. -- To provide a permanent URL for each message, so each can be reliably linked from other web documents. The latter goal is the most challenging. The downside is that the mailing list eats up megabytes -- about 6 megs per month. Since I pay for web service by the meg and by transfer rate, this can start running into some serious cash as the archive grows, and maintaining a permanent archive means the monthly charges get bigger and bigger each month. To try to recoup these costs, I have added a link to our mail-order catalog at the bottom of each page. I hope the link is discreet enough to not bother people but annoying enough to generate sales to pay for the site. Profit is not my goal here; I just need to pay those growing monthly charges. To be able to maintain a permanent archive, it is important to keep down message size. I'd like to eventually see the 6 mgs/month reduced, perhaps by a combination of strategies. One problem is the reposting of long documents that are already available elsewhere on the web. I know that some UFO UpDates subscribers don't have web access, but it also seems senseless to overburden subscribers who do have web access and to save the same documents twice on the web. (This is a philosophical problem; but I predict that the web will win eventually.) Eventually, I might have no choice but eliminate old messages. One way to do this might be to delete all messages that no other web pages have linked to. (Through the magic of computer technology, I can figure this out, provided the external link generates at least one Netscape hit per month.) Therefore, you can probably be assured that if you link to a message at its current address, the message will stick around at that address, hopefully forever. (The rule may be, "Link it or lose it.") Readers are also invited to examine our newly redesigned UFO People section at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people. It has been reincarnated as a series of link pages modeled after Yahoo. You can add your own links to each page! (If any messages appear on UFO Updates reflecting on a person's research, theories, personality or credibility, please feel free to link the message directly to that person's page.) Here at the Research Center, we believe in freedom through technology. By the wonders of science, we CAN make this a better world. Glenn Campbell +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Drake's Equation From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:24:36 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 21:24:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 09:29:21 -0800 >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation >References: <2.2.32.19970103150617.00b74abc@mail.globalserve.net> >> From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca >> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 16:25:13 -0400 >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Drake's Equation >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it >> totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 >> major factors in determining the distribution of >> intelligent life on earth. >> Stan Friedman >A note to the nuclear physicists, consultants and conspiracy theorists >on this list regarding basic math and its application to the Drake >equation: [snip] >Sorry to disullusion the nuclear physicists, consultants and conspiracy >theorists on this list, but I felt the need to remind all of some very >basic math principles that have apparently been overlooked in the >application of conspiracy theories to the Drake equation. >Ed Stewart THANKYOU!!! Thank you so much for kindly expressing what I was trying to say with so much difficulty. I knew that the math was not wrong by all that much even though the interpretations were something totally out of this world. I ain't no rocket scientist, but I do know that the relative expression of mathematics to define anything of complexity in our universe only applies to specifically theoretical values. Mathematical possibilities limited into values of proabilities are no more relative than dots on paper starmaps. It is still only something we try to use to relate to something we don't really know. Just how much we don't know about our universe is evident in the manner we go about exploration of it. While we can unanimously agree upon some things, there will always be questions and no answers for them so long as we bother to look. If you don't believe in UFO's, don't look up. They will never exist in such a limited world. But for others, like me, I found by chance that there was more to this universe than what most people could imagine. However that is expressed, I can only say that I have a perception of my experiences. However anyone wants to relate to that possibility or not is entirely up to them. I already have been convinced beyond my own personal values that there are such things as alien piloted craft and that there are abductions by aliens going on. I don't see them all the time, nor do I look for them. They will find me at their convenience whether I like it or not. Anything that relates to the topic of UFO's and Abductions really hits home to me. I have much to relate to and yet see that there is so much disinformation and hoaxing going on in the world. Just think that if there were such things as aliens and UFO's as I seem to think, then what would they do about all of the garbage going on? Who is fooling who in all of this anyways? Believe that the truth will publicly be whatever our 'civilization' decides whether it is right or wrong. Afterall, UFO's exist or not. Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 5 More media... From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:34:32 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 21:23:03 -0500 Subject: More media... In addition to the BWW Media Alert list, I would strongly suggest the February issue of 'Final Frontier'. The article, 'Mind Fields, NASA looks into breakthrough physics', talks about a wholly new approach to propulsion systems. It would seem that the scientific field is now open to discussing the possibility of exotic means of propulsion such as; warp drives, anti-gravity, using worm holes, anti-proton propulsion, beamed energy, fusion rockets, and space tethers. There is now talk of actually traveling to other stars. We can travel there but they can't travel here, is that the philosophy now? I wonder what Mr. Oberg would have to say about this? Drew Williamson P.S. One of the astronomy mags, (sorry, don't remember which one) has an article on the February 1947 Russian bolide/meteorite that left multiple impacts in the region.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Faster Than Light Travel From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:47:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 05:56:00 -0500 Subject: Faster Than Light Travel Regarding the talk here about science, speculation, and faster than light travel... Yesterday, breezing through a magazine at a large newsstand, I skimmed a piece about research into FTL travel at, hold your breath, NASA and the prestigious Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Research might be too strong a term. But interest there certainly was, according to the piece, along with conferences of scientists and engineers interested in getting beyond simple rocket propulsion for space travel. I'm at fault here for not buying the magazine, or taking notes. But this wasn't tabloid journalism. The magazine was one I hadn't seen, on the subject of space travel, but scientific. Names were named; scientists were quoted. There was also reference to articles in physics journals. If I'm to believe this piece, a number of physicists actually believe faster than light travel is possible. I'd heard something of the sort from David Pritchard, a couple of years ago (he, of course, being the MIT physicist who's interested in abductions). He told me that the SETI position on interstellar travel was not necessarily representative of mainstream science any more. At the very least, there were serious challenges to this. Now that I've put my foor in my mouth, I'll try to get back to that newstand and buy the magazine, to post details. But does anyone else know anything about this? Greg Sandow I want to repeat...I've read pieces like this before, that were nothing but blue-sky woo-woo. This seemed much different.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Project 1947 - 5001st Composite Wing From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 00:24:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 05:54:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - 5001st Composite Wing > Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:24:16 -0800 > From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> > Subject: 5001st Composite Wing > To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM [snip] > "Project Pinball > "With Site F-9 going into operation in December, Project Pinball was > established for the purpose of analysis of unidentified activity as > reported by this Site. The Intelligence Section was charge with the > successful accomplishment of this project which consists of preparing > daily track studies, graphic presentation, and reporting periodically to > the Commanding Officer." [snip] Is Project Pinball the project in which Wendell Stevens participated in Alaska and has described as collecting optical and instrumentation data obtained by bomber crews on UFOs? Gary Alevy Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | jan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:53:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 05:56:47 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing John Powell, reading that the supposed alien "writing" Budd Hopkins keeps under lock and key is made up of fairly simple symbols, writes: > If the symbology is as simple as you suggest then I > absolutely guarantee that modern cryptographic analysis could decode it. Would you explain further, John? The part that stumps me is what cryptographers could compare the symbols to. Are they letters in an alphabet? Do they stand for concepts, somewhat as Chinese pictographs do? Are they something scientific or mathematical, like symbolic logic or the symbols of organic chemistry? Lacking that knowledge, how does a cryptographer proceed? Especially since -- assuming for a moment that the symbols are truly alien -- we know nothing of the alien culture or thought processes. It's not as if we have a Rosetta stone -- something in a language we know that says the same thing. What would a cryptographer look for? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Drake's Equation From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:39:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 05:55:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation Steve Bassett writes: > The Drake equation, of course, was never about proof. Rather it used a > common approach to test an hypothesis by identifying as many variables as > possible, apply estimated quantities to see if the result made any sense, > and thus create a quantitative basis for debate and analysis. ...snip.... > What should have happened is that the fundamental hypothesis behind the > equation would be continually revisited and the equation structure updated > and refined. - same for the numbers to be inserted. > The real value of the Drake equation was its role as a bridge between the > worlds of ET Phenomena research and mainstream astronomy/astrophysics. A > more rigorous and narrowly calculated Drake equation would serve the same > purpose in the mainstream world as higher quality photographic evidence and > first person accounts serve in the UFOlogical world - refining the hypothesis > to improve the focus and quality of the debate and steer the research along > the most fruitful paths. Good thoughts. I'd love to know what Drake thinks of his equation these days. His thoughts must have evolved. I look at his effort two ways. From one view, it's something to giggle at, especially when you read his book, and sense how proud he was of his conclusion, that there are between 1000 and 100 million intelligent civilizations in the galaxy. From another view, Drake was a pioneer, simply because he used the best tools science has to discuss and attempt to quantify something science doesn't like to deal with. Eventually, I can see Drake discussed, just as Steve suggests, in the same breath as ufologists -- although he himself, I'm sure, would be horrified at the thought! Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:59:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 05:57:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs John Powell, wondering how SETI scientists imagine they could recognize an alien signal, notes: > SETI listens _not_ for the one part of one signal that may be an alien > version of Starsky & Hutch, but instead listens for the _whole_ signal > and requires it to be the _SAME_ signal from the _SAME_ place. John's question, of course, is why we'd think aliens would be likely to send such a signal. Our own TV broadcasts, he notes -- along with other electronic debris wafting outward from our great green earth -- isn't nearly as organized as that. Actually, John, the SETI crowd believes that aliens are sending coherent signals intentionally, in order to catch our attention. (And, of course, the attention of other beings.) It's worth reading the SETI literature, if only to see how large and detailed an edifice can be built on pure speculation. SETI scientists have satisfied themselves that interstellar travel is impossible. Yet, they believe, any intelligent race knows it's not alone. Races long to reach out. How else to do that, but with radio? (A curious assumption, that races a billion years ahead of us would still use radio, but let it pass.) The next question would be what kind of signal they'd broadcast. SETI scientists have ideas on that, too -- on the frequency that alien races would use, and on what the signal would look like. So they don't look for a needle in a haystack; they've actually formed definite ideas of what they're looking for. As I say, it makes for fascinating reading, even if it makes me wonder, sometimes, whether the SETI folks ever examine their assumptions with any kind of critical eye. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 13:58:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 06:00:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > JC: Sorry for this interjection again, but: A problem existing in > Ufology today is that skeptics, because they have not researched deep > enough, often quote statistics that skew historical fact. Example, the > following quote: > >........ There are tens and tens of > >thousands of UFO sightings reported over the last 50 or so years and > >that is our raw uninvestigated data population. That is also the > >most useless number in all of ufology. Of the uninvestigated total > >we know that easily from 80% (being very generous) to 95% are IFOs > >(and some, a small percentage) are hoaxes. We know statistically > >that 80% to 95% will be retired as IFOs....... > REBUTTAL: > JC: In the past, most of the statistics used to retire UFOs as IFOs > were provided by the Air Force. We also have APRO and NICAP data from the same time period. We also have other data sources since then. > Anyone can easily go to the library and check out many of the sources > listed below for yourselves. It is basic straightforward history. If you prefer 70% to 95%, instead of my saying "80% to 95%," that's fine with me, I don't think the difference is significant with respect to the three points I was trying to make: 1) _Most_ UFO sightings turn out to be readily explainable. We shouldn't be surprised by that since most sightings originate from untrained and unequiped casual observers. 2) The raw sighting count or the raw sighting report count is an utterly useless and meaningless number. 3) After extensive research and investigation, _some_ (small) percentage, with a high point around 15% to 30% <grin> to a low of around 5%, of UFO sightings remain beyond current explanation. _Some_ older UFO sightings (Catalina film and at least one other) did yeild a common Earthly explanation upon the use of modern technology, and its likely a _few_ more will follow in time. Howeover, _this_ remaining core dataset should be the primary focus of ufology. There's at least one good (or sensible to some <grin>) reason why the really good UFO stuff didn't go to Bluebook. Bluebook was a PIO quasi-investigative operation and if they had to explain a particular sighting as being an advanced USAF R&D craft I rather think the folks at the DoD would get upset... I suspect that if the DoD would be forthcoming with declassification and disclosure we could whittle our core dataset down to around 5%. But I think the difference between 30% or 15% or 5% is largely irrelevant. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:32:58 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 05:59:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > > Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:22:50 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs [snip] > >It is hard for the public to > >understand how a country whose military posture is so security > >geared could dismiss a case like this out-of-hand unless the > >military knew more than they were telling." JA: This should not be surprising. It is brought to by the same people who brough you Pearl Harbor, the Battle of the Bulge, the Korean War, Prague Spring, the Fall of the Soviet Union, etc. Intelligence failures are all over the place. History is a great teacher. We usually learn the lessons when we have been knocked face first into the mud again. > >Appendix 4, Section A, Paragraph 9 > >"It must be pointed out that neither of these cases were shown to > >me by Blue Book personnel. I happened upon them by accident > >during one of my visits as I scanned through material lying on a > >desk, and not in the files; I am not permitted to peruse the files > >themselves. I have access to the files only when I request a > >specific case. But how can I request a specific case, to examine > >its possible scientific merits, if I don't know of its existence?" JA: Ah! Here is the rub! For a long time the Air Force "controlled" what data was seen by outside consultant, scientific boards, Battelle and even their own chief consultant. Not out of any conspiracy, but what they thought was relavent. Except for the Florida scotmaster case which was submitted with all sort of caveat, no close encounter cases were submitted to the Robertson panel. Ruppelt had a well advertised aversion to landing cases, but he did have some in his files and in his clipping service. The Robertson panel did comment that most of these cases they saw were short duration and seen without references so good estimates of size, speed and distance were impossible. I consider Rupplet responsible for this. If not Ruppelt, someone in an official capacity who selected the cases. Richard Hall and I had a blazing argument over this. Hall's contention was you could have shown the panel anything, and it would not have mattered. Their minds were already made up. I would like to think that Alvarez being such an expert on radar would have found a few compelling cases. That he was not at all impressed with the radar evidence to me is worrisome. However, some accounts of the Robertson panel mention that most of the case reveiws were casual. The panel members were also asked to take cases home to look at. I wonder just how much effort went into that little exercise. Another example of this control, Hynek requested funds to go met with the Condon committee. LTC Q turned him down with a letter which stated that the Condon committee was working hard on the ufo problem and any visit from Hynek would be an interruption and a distraction. Gad! Probably the institutional memory of most of the Air Force project was in Hynek's brain, and LTC Q made such a statement!?! No wonder McDonald had such a low opinion of the Project head's ability. [snip] > JC: And in Appendix 4, Section D, Paragraph 1 of his same book, Hynek > also comments on AF statistics some twenty years later: > >"The statistical methods employed by Blue Book are a travesty on > >the branch of mathematics known as Statistics. A chapter in a > >doctoral dissertation at Northwestern University, soon to be > >published, deals specifically with this aspect, and I will later > >quote from it (Herbert Strentz, "A Study of Some Air Force > >Statistical Procedures in Recording and Reporting Data on UFO > >Investigations," included in "A SURVEY OF PRESS COVERAGE OF UFOs, > >1947-1967, a doctoral thesis at the Medill School of Journalism, > >Northwestern University") and preface it with my own observations > >which, incidentally, I have repeatedly brought to the attention of > >the Blue Book staff but to no avail." JA: I have dealt with some of the problems in another post. > JC: This message, from the official, civilian astronomical consultant to > the Air Force for twenty years, should have been a major "beacon" informing > scientists that something was dreadfully wrong with what the Air Force was > telling us. Unfortunately, these revelations came "after" the Condon Study > had passed its final verdict and Project Blue Book was terminated. And > mainstream Science turned its back on the data that continued to pour in. If you look in the Analomist #4 you will find that Hynek did not enjoy the confidence of LTC Quintanilla (Sp?). One of McDonald's main arguments with Hynek is that he did not standup and say these things while he was the chief scientific consultant. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:16:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 06:01:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > > Do you suspect that Condon, and perhaps others, being conscious of > > the fact that a high percentage of reports are misidentifications, > > intentionally exploited investigation teams to create negative > > ufological press? > No! I don't think Condon was really much involved at this phase. I > think this was an honest attempt--but one that lacked the initial > prior planning--to get data. George Earley wrote to NICAP that he was > very impressed when the team came to Connectiuct. They had much of > the equipment that would be required to measure any aftereffects that > were present, and they were enthusiastic. They just wasted a lot of > time and resources going after any ball that came near them. They had > not thought enough about a standard to use to determine if the case > were significant. > Later Condon would become involved during the writing and editing > phase where everything but the kitchen sink was put into the report. > An old trick I have used myself to good effect several times. The > intended audience reads your conclusion and is put off by the weight > of your report so they do not look at what the report contains. Hahah!! Ok, the indians were doing a bang-up job (sort of) and the chiefs messed up the result. Less conspiratorial than a planned deception, I like it. > It is necessary to define the problem. It is also important because > of the nature of the data (see above.), and all the arguments about > why ufo cannot be studied. [...] > At the scientific reviews the scientists' opinions were always asked > about the phenomenon. What should have occurred was a mission > statement. "We have this apparent 'will o' the wisp' phenomenon. Find > a way to study it." There has been a lot of work based on a lack of a definition of a phenomenon. Rushing out to study (what might be) specific examples of the assummed phenomenon. The resulting data is all over the map, could be any number of things, related or not related, no actual definition to use to select where this data should go. What _is_ a good definition of the phenomenon? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 97 13:31:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 06:02:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs Sir John Powell, Commander of Fortian Foppery, said; >If I had to guess I'd guess that we'll first figure out how >to modulate data over FTL speeds. That would radically change robotic >space exploration. Strange you should say that. There is a theory that say's that objects that are in harmony are sympathetic. This uses a non-elastic concept for the structure of space. Heck, it may even explain spontaneous energy. Universal law seems an imperative. But is it? One need only look around him and into the visible universe to see that many patterns are the same throughout. If an object in one galaxy is set to vibration, is it possible that another object, which is exactly the same, in another galaxy, can start a sympathetic vibration in reaction to the first? If so, what allows for it? There is only one possibility, that being that the distance between them is zero. How can a distance of zero be equivalent to a distance of a million light years? You need only ask the light, which has no mass, and experiences no time; "Do you have an unseen brother? One who is always everywhere?" ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com/UFO http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://www.sat.net/~pparri/SCRAPS http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/comet
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Old UFO case From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 09:24:31 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 05:59:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Old UFO case > Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 13:42:51 -0500 (EST) > From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Old UFO case > In an earlier email Jan said: > >Looking at Barry Greenwood's draft bibliography of UFO and related > >phenomena in journal and magazine articles... > Would someone enlighten me as to what this bibliography is? As I already relayed to Pam privately, this is an ongoing project. I happen to have a copy of earlier draft. The bibliography has gone way beyond this draft. The collection phase never ends. There are constantly new items turning up. Most of Greenwood's work is now focused on small scientific journals, company magazines and 1950s and 1960s men's magazine. (Some of which had surprising articles such as interviews of Project Blue Book officers after they retired.) The problem here is of one time. The bibliography should probably be a computer database that can be updated periodically. However, then you have the problem of knuckle drilling the data into the database. This type of work has far less appeal that the latest adventures of the "rebel reptilians." So demand will be low and support for producing such items almost non-existent. I wouldn't look for this bibliography any time soon. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:39:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 06:03:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > > Something like 10,000 a year worldwide. > Indications are twice that from our press studies! Whoa! I thought I was rounding _up_ when I said 10,000. > Aime Michel and Ruppelt (and I) had the same idea. Collect huge > amounts of data then look for patterns. Michel connected the dots. > Orthoneny always seemed strange to me, but it was a systemic, if > wrong, approach. So when connecting the dots didn't work Michel just > walked away. Sigh. One fellow's night light might be another's CE. > We only do this type of thing on an ad hoc basis. If there is an > interesting encounter around, then we look for other reports in the > area as confirmation. Sure, on pattern could be time/location. I have no idea what petterns there could be in the data but I'd expect _something_ to show up. > Anyway, I feel, like Michel and Ruppelt, we should start with > everything. DL are generally low strangeness and low creditability > but should be kept. I think so too, 'strangeness' is simply an attribute of the data, not a selection criteria. > Collecting data has not really been address. We have made large > statements based on small samples. Predictions are dangerous you > start finding what you want to be there. I don't think the data collection has been exactly first-rate but then there are some reasonably good reasons for that. By predictions I only meant you think up (predict) a pattern you think might be there (based on something or nothing) and then see if the pattern is there. Making beyond-the-data predictions is almost always dangerous. > > I think the safe way out of this catch-22 is to create selection > > criteria that _don't_ affect the observation, just the > > observing/observer. > > For example, remove from the database _all_ single person > > observations. > I violently disagree. Most reported data is from a single observer. I agree its the bulk of the data but its likely _also_ to be the bulk of the misidentifications, the bulk of the hoaxes. I don't mean _throw out_ the single-witness data. I only mean we specifically select out the non-single witness data and we call that our 'better' data. Two datasets, or maybe just an attribute in a single dataset. Or, a different angle, when looking for and finding patterns take the subset that represents the pattern and split it into single and non-single witness groups. Does the pattern then exist in _both_ groups of that subset? > Also, if you have a group of witnesses at the same spot, > you start to get social dynamics. I know that's a problem but I don't know what to do about it. > > I don't know of an objective way for determinimg a reliable witness. > > I don't think its safe to cull the data based on observer-related > > criteria. > You don't need an objective way; you need a consistantly applied > criteria. Sure, no argument there. > > I think it is safe to separate the data based on > > observation-related criteria. If we're looking for a pattern, and > > if there are patterns, then those patterns should be present or at > > least not removed from the data simple by selecting data based on > > observation-related criteria. If a patter-type happens to be Silver > > Discoid then that should be reflected in both the multi-observer > > sightings _and_ the single-observer sightings -OR- there's a major > > problem with all the data. > Weather balloons or pibals also appear disklike in some cases. There > are problems no matter what is tried. Sure, a discoid seen at a distance from top or bottom ecomes circular of a globe. I don't know what can be done about that. > Thanks for the input, John. More food for thought. In Condon > committee meetings half the time they spent calling each other names. Hahahahah!!!! Not that that isn't fun on occasion but it doesn't move us forward much <grin>. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: 'Backlash' From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:44:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 06:59:22 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' Michael Malone writes: > it is absolutely unthinkable and a black mark on those scientifically and > ethically interested in UFOs that there are self-claimed abduction > researchers (Yes, Greg, I mean that in a negative sense) who are using > their knowledge of psychology and therapy, either hypno-thearpy or > otherwise, to gain knowledge about an alleged experience, and then will > report on that alleged experience without attempting to verify the > experience physically. > In other fields of psycology, this is resulting in license revocation. > Most specifically, in cases of child abuse that never occured, yet the > therapist assured both the police and the courts that it did. And in at > least one case, licenses were removed from therapists who misused their > position in relation to an alien abduction case. > Today, respected therapists work with other agencies when a psycological > trauma is discovered. These auxillary agencies help identify the real > worlds, physical source of the problem, while the therapist helps with the > psycological trauma that is the result. Such common sense approaches are > absent in UFOlogy today. No problem with your negative sense, Mike. Who would those auxillary agencies be, in the case of supposed abductions? Put yourself in the position of, say, Budd Hopkins, when he first ran across alleged abduction cases. What he did, at the time -- and this was around 20 years ago -- was to enlist the help of psychotherapists he'd known through his work as an artist. They were the ones who intitially talked to the abduction experiencers, and carried out any hypnosis. What else should he have done? What agencies should he have approached? I'm not throwing this in your face as a challenge. I'm genuinely curious. A related question. Suppose you ran into an abduction experiencer. Suppose you became involved in his or her situation. What agency in your own area would you want to involve? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Israeli 'EBE' Case A 'Hoax'? From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 05 Jan 97 20:49:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 07:01:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Israeli 'EBE' Case A 'Hoax'? Dear Errol, Regarding the Israeli "EBE CASE" I wrote to an Israeli researcher I know and asked him about Barry Chamish's article. Below you find the quoted text he wrote back to me. Maybe it sheds further light on this event. Keep up your good work in 1997! Joachim ----------------forwarded email from Israel follows------------------- Hi, >From: Chamish Barry <chamish@netmedia.net.il> never heard of him, do you know where he works? > > IT'S A BIRD, IT'S AN ALIEN, IT'S A FRAUD >by Barry Chamish > >On December 22, Israel Television's First Channel Evening News program >broadcast an exciting report. It seems that on a night of intense UFO >activity in the Galilee farming village of Achihod, an "alien" fell from a >craft and was captured by a local resident. >An attractive woman, Tziona Damti was interviewed and described coming >face to face with the alien the evening before, which was standing >motionless just outside her father-in-law's barn. She showed her >father-in-law the weird "being" and he said it was nothing. She went to >sleep but in the morning returned to find the "alien" standing in the same >place. Here's a quote from my previous mail to you from 31.12 : ===start quote=== Israel UFO update ================= In the last months we had several 'sightings' but, except one which can not be easily explained ( an unclear short video taken at night of a light pattern in the sky ), and one which was either a true abduction report or a hoax, we had no serious sightings. ===end quote=== I did not refer to the incident reported by Barry Chamish because it just looked to me like a very bad hoax !! The details of that incident are almost absurd, the 'alien' looks more like a piece of plastic or other matter and definitely not like something that ever lived. I completely dismissed this incident as a hoax, please ignore it. We must concetrate only on real incidents. BTW: a group of UFO enthusiasts here claims that in Jan. 5th 97 ( this Sunday ) UFOs will land in israel publicly !!! , well I just have to see tomorrow's news report, I wonder what will come out of it. Now for the details of what he [Barry Chamish] wrote: >broadcast an exciting report. It seems that on a night of intense UFO >no one saw it, it was definitely not intense (and it was a very clear >night, it must have been seen ) >An attractive woman, Tziona Damti ... Definitely not attractive (I saw the TV report too), this guy just fills his report with superlatives >She showed her father-in-law the weird "being" and he said it was nothing. Right. >arrived and when one bent down to put the "alien" in a bucket, it jumped >on his back. This was NOT reported, and sounds un-real, I saw the 'alien' it just does not look like something that lived. He might have invented it himself. >Officer Asher Ben Ezra told the press that the volume of >bodily fluids left on the ground by the creature was abnormal and >persuaded him that there was something suspicious about it. Yes, who says it's the alien's body fluids? It could be just dirty water, besides, I saw no such fluids. >The police, apparently deciding the creature was no danger to the public Yes, if it was really an alien - remember roswell? Yes, in israel it would have been the same. The army and intelligence would have arrived there if it was a real thing. they did not. Even more, I did not hear any of the more serious UFO investigators in Israel comment about this incident. They seem to ignore it too. >and media circus was on. Besides the report on TV, the >newspaper Maariv printed a photo of the "alien" on its front >page Well, that's natural, it's happens everywhere >Yediot Ahronot devoted two pages in the center of the paper to the >encounter. NOT TRUE (as far as I remember ) >recent wave of mysterious livestock disappearances. Livestock disappearances ( thefts .. ) happen all the time, mutilations however, were NOT reported. >and observers, including Uri Geller. Geller came to israel a few days ago for his 50th birthday. > and Israeli ufologist Doron Rotem was quoted in Maariv and >Yediot Ahronot saying no alien yet reported was only five cm. >tall. Doron Rotem also did not consider this as a serious incident. >... He later told me, "After >that interview I received actual threats from the UFO community. They want >an Israeli Roswell and I had the nerve to say this wasn't it." As I said, a serious, known UFO investigator says it's nothing. There was simply no solid piece of information in this incident. >discovered it, blue luminiscent discs were seen by numerous residents of >the village. I heard that no one elese saw it >Further, Uri Geller told her that in the nearby Arab town of Tamra, >he was invited to see a small UFO flying inside someone's home. Come on, get serious. > Clearly, there was real UFO activity in the area. I don't see it in the report. > one highly likely abduction widely publicized. I refered to it in my previous letter. > Word somehow spread that the film was worth $100,000 and that the >television networks would start bidding. That's the key for so many hoaxes >At that moment, I knew I was dealing with a hoax. It was not the >first time. To put things into perspective, I have interviewed dozens of >witnesses and on only three occasions did I smell a hoax. The Kadima >silicon was one, the alleged abductions of Yossi Ronen and Yossi Saguy >were the other two. Well, I agree, it was a bad hoax. >Everything was aimed at making money. That was exactly my impression. >thing in an hour. What you have here is a lizard which hatched too early. >It is covered in a multi-layered gelatinous sac. When it shed the sacs, it >left amnionic fluid. The jumping is the typical flexional and convulsional >reactions of a trapped embryo, I think of a salamander." Maybe, I heard this explanation, but I'm not qualified to decide. Anyway salamanders are from earth. >Doron Rotem agrees, "I thought it was an embryo but of a chameleon. I >reached the conclusion the whole thing was a hoax from Tziona's testimony. >She told me the thing was dead from the minute she saw it. When she >started talking to reporters, it miraculously came to life. And >originally, she told me the creature was 5 cm tall. Suddenly it's grown to >20 cm. but it shrunk later on." >My opinion is that initially Tziona was caught in UFO hysteria and >imagined a lizard embryo to be an alien. Then the hucksters arrived at her >door and the hoax began in earnest. >end Joachim, I just think too many words where wasted here on a simple, bad, hoax. I don't think this should even have reached internationl UFO media, these UFO journalists are paid by their production and report hoax with the same enthusiasm as more real incidents. bye for now U. N. ISRAEL --------------------end of forwarded email from Israel----------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Jan 97 15:48:32 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 07:00:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article >Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:52:54 -0800 >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article To Ed Stewart, Ed, >Folks, there was only ONE, I repeat ONE test at Trinity, not more >than one. Obviously, whoever "Jack" is, he was not aware that there was >only ONE test at White Sands. So if any other footage of the atomic test other than Brixner's turn's up, it must be fake footage then? And if any footage of any other kind of tests at the site were to turn up, they too would be fake? What kind of film did Brixner shoot with? Was it colour or B&W? Was it 16mm or 35mm? Thanks. Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Jan 97 16:54:28 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 07:01:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article To Ed Stewart: Ed, >When one considers that the Trinity blast was >one of the utmost important scientific experiments of all time requiring >the utmost in precision, coordination and efficiency, which had to work >the first time with no repeats allowed, does anyone seriously considers >that the Army would bring in someone barely two years out of Army >photography school to record the event? And isn't it strange that they would send up planes to get aerial observations of the blast but not have any kind of photographer on the planes to record it. One would think that an aerial record of the event would be of great importance to the scientists working on the project. In your research did you find any reason why they didn't have a photographer or motion picture cameraman on those planes? Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: 'Alien Autopsy' Fake or Real? From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 22:04:01 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 07:46:05 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien Autopsy' Fake or Real? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > Subject: Alien Autopsy Fake or Real > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 97 02:32:07 GMT > Dear Colleagues, > I would ask all subscribers to e-mail me with their own selection of > the following: > The Santilli 'alien autopsy' film is: > A: A fake/hoax. > B: Authentic/non-human. > C: Authentic/disinformation. > D: Authentic/deformed human being. > E: Stiil to be proved fake or genuine. > END Philip, My vote is "E" but leaning towards "A" BTW I've tried to send this twice to the e-mail address given above & it bounced - twice. Dave Vetterick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: More media... Well done? Rare! From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 97 22:40:41 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 07:46:52 -0500 Subject: Re: More media... Well done? Rare! Drew Williamson said; >There is now talk of actually traveling to other stars. We can travel >there but they can't travel here, is that the philosophy now? I wonder what >Mr. Oberg would have to say about this? Hold your breath. What would Oberg say about the STS-80 UFO's, and the discovery that Clementine photo's have been altered and rather clumsily so. See for yourself... This is a single URL to the Navy Clementine site. A specific photo of the moon. Take a look & tell me what you think of the "anomaly" http://www.nrl.navy.mil/clem_engine/multires?clickres=4&ox=7012&oy=-1538&re s=1&size=256&latitude=73&longitude=238&submit=Use+Lat%2FLong&sensor=UVVIS&f ilter=415_nm ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com/UFO http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://www.sat.net/~pparri/SCRAPS http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/comet
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:57:03 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 07:48:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:10:24 -0500 >From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Ever hear of a fellow by the name of David Percy? He's ARPS as well as >>member of the British Industrial & Scientific Film Association according >>to his bio. >>He's written a piece in the January issue of Fortean Times (English mag, >>but sold on many US news stands) in which he purports to show that NASA's >>Apollo moon photos are studio fakes. Worth taking a look at, since the >>points he makes are quite valid and require explanation from NASA. >Also worth pointing out that several colour photographs of these NASA/Lunar >anomalies can be found in an article on said subject on pages 65-69 of "The >Unopened Files" - which appeared on the newsstands here in Britain on 29 >September '96. >The "Fortean Times" article is a splendid effort and one I have commended >to many people interested in this extremely curious puzzle. >It's nothing new of course, the stories (and photographic anomalies) have >been circulating for years, but now there is the means and will to >circulate them to an even wider audience. ---> MY OPINION <----- I happened to have watched the original version of the Lunar Landing as it happened. I was amazed to see the astronauts walking on the Moon as they did. While I watched them, I began to realize the details I had expected to see, dust clouds, evidences of lack of gravity, colour of the visible light, size of the Earth as seen in the Moon's sky, the fantastic view of stars that should have been visible even in daylight because of lack of atmosphere and a host of other things; None of it was there in that first showing of the Moon Walk of the Astronauts. I was immediately crying "fake" at that supposedly historic moment. That the historic moments of the first men on the Moon were unquestionably pre-recorded for the original broadcast to the television public is a debate that can not easily be proved. Until there is some kind of spectrum analysis of the original video or even copies, there would always be room for doubt of the whole plot. I could surmise that NASA would want to edit those first moments for the safety of editing the publically aired events. The possibility of something going wrong was very stong in the minds of everyone at that time. It was probably thought that a show of success would help in the race against the rest of the world as a space power. That was superb public information management, as far as I am concerned. Still, while I can see the why and the how, I do not know all of the answers about the need to completely filter all scientific information so completely before it reaches the eyes and ears of the public. Perhaps the initial success of the original broadcast was monitored. Perhaps the ratings jumped so high that the real news was loosened as soon as it was known that the mission was indeed a success. Still, a similar and effective filtering process continues as it has from that time. Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Posting Instructions From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 16:45:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 16:45:57 -0500 Subject: Posting Instructions To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message on the List, _always_ include the 'header' from that message at the start of your message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area It's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are answering. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are responding to. Excessive quoting will result in your message not being posted to the List. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol will not be posted to UFO Updates. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it was merely posted to the List by UpDates. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want EVERYONE to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include http:// and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------ Please observe the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Old UFO case From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Jan 97 01:07:27 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:23:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Old UFO case Duke presents compliments &c. (Bit rushed) I've just seen the query about the "Wiltshire Shadows" of 1912. A couple of reviewers of the "Catalogue" complained about the lack of references, and this is but the latest of several occasions on which I have rued not footnoting sources for that book. My first guess was that it came from Charles Fort, but a squint at the flagged pages of the "Complete Books" hasn't turned it up. However, that doesn't mean it isn't there, the squint being but brief; so I'll keep on looking as time permits. Maybe by now Bob "For Tea *n* Times" Rickard has enough of Fort's works on disk to do a search, however, between wild dashes to the samovar of Lapsang Suchong?? At least if it is from Fort the reference to "Nature" will be reliable. Incidentally, it smacks to me of a letter to same, not an article, in which case one would really have to trawl through the copies of "Nature", and not necessarily just from 1912 if some other item triggered the correspondence (groan). Next guess was Harold Wilkins's "Flying Saucers On The Attack", less reliable as a source (anyway, patchy) - no luck. Nor in "Passport to Magonia" (Vallee) - scraping the barrel here. I'll keep looking in Wilkins, too, though. Another possibility is it's buried in one of Paul Devereux's books: I will ask him. Yes, well, sorry about that. I said much the same thing once on allowing an excessively fat cat, named Sir Joseph Stopes (I wonder why?), to leap from my shoulder and almost into one of my grandmothers-in-law's Ming vases; of course the cat survived, while the Ming transmogrified into instant landfill, and several of the younger persons present fainted. I have never felt so threatened in the life department by anyone in a wheelchair, before or since, and that was just with the withering look, before she got the terrifying vehicle in gear. So I know, sort of, how you may feel. I'll keep looking, honest, and not just in the above. skulking embarrassed behind several horses Peter B[rookesmith] PS: I have thought of a few fixes a propos investigating alien writing too but am presently caught between dengue fever and global warming (you'll read about it). Hold breath for about 10 days at worst.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 04:44:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:27:07 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 14:28:45 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > > > There probably are other examples, I'd be surprised if there > > > weren't. Science politics is a heated competition of ideas. > > Menzelian science is my polite way of saying psychological warfare, > > disinformation, prevarication elementary tools of counterintelligence > > not generally the methods of science politics. > I think you're too quick to assume counterintelligence. Just because > someone doesn't believe that UFOs are alien spacecraft is no reason to > assume they are counterintelligence agents...<grin> I can't send you to school on this but if your life or professional experience has not made you aware of the important role of counterintellignece in the history of science, industry, politics and nations, etc. then you are living a fortunate, innocent life. Pearl Harbor taught this nation a lesson it determined not to forget and during WWII and shortly thereafter some of the best minds of this country we brought to create intelligence organizations which would prevent that from happening again. The unanticipated arrival on this planet of extraterrestrial intelligence(s) is certainly within their charter. Its certainly not been treated as a laughing matter and has been dealt with seriously and covertly. Read the Brookings Report through and through not just some snippet quotes. > > > Location, location, location they say is the one of the most important > > factors in real estate. > > Communications, communications, communications is similarly important > > in intelligence operations if there is or will be contact with > > extraterrestrials where might you place your key people? > > I've read the posted Drake material and it proves nothing. No one can prove anything to you, you have to figure it out for yourself. Imagine that you had to develop a contingency plan for an event such as the contact with or arrival on this planet of a non-human intelligence. This is not an untenable exercise since we as humans plan to visit elsewheres as soon as we are capable of doing so. What would you have to do? > Remember these were largely military or military-related people solving > a _military-related_ problem. > > That response obviously had some silly aspects. For instance, assuming > that if certain respected people explained away all UFO sightings then > UFO sightings will magically stop occurring...<grin> I think you under-estimate the military and the intellectual capabilities of its people. > So, with all this coverage why don't we have a stepped-up disinformation > campaign? I think it is still there, instead of Menzel who was capable of loosing his temper on televsion we have more subtle people serving as disinformationalists. As the times change so has the modus operandi. > I think the answer is found in the original problem. The flaw in the > Robertson/Durant panel conclusion was in allowing the military to make > public policy. They never have been capable of it and probably never > will be. The military makes military policy, and they're generally > pretty good at that, but that's all. The silly aspect, that UFO > sightings would disappear if previous UFO sightings were explained away, > is exactly the type of common sense non-military idea that military > people solving a military problem are incapable of figuring out. I think you are wrong, these policies were made by the intelligence community and this is not truly synonymous with the military (Army, Air Force, Marines and Navy). The intelligence community involves and considers many other aspects of public policy which are non-military, e.g. social, political, economic and even religious. < snipped > Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Israeli 'EBE' Case A 'Hoax'? From: Chamish Barry <chamish@netmedia.net.il> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:26:12 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:26:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Israeli 'EBE' Case A 'Hoax'? via Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> NOT A GOOD WEEK FOR ISRAELI UFO RESEARCH by Barry Chamish Two events converged in the last week of the year threatening to send Israel UFO research back to the dark ages of the 1980s. One was a conference in Eilat organized by alleged abductee Carlos Bin Nun, the other, the green "alien" of Achihod. Bin Nun's gathering of the country's UFO mystics produced only two headlines: Uri Geller announced that he was abducted by aliens as a child and one of the speakers, given futuristic powers by the otherworldly enitities, promised the nation that a huge UFO will hover over Tel Aviv on January fifth and herald a new era. Sunday began with excitement for the more naive UFO culturists. One Debby Segal, representing the Damti family of Kibbutz Achihod, announced on Channel Two's 5 PM television news program that tomorrow the long anticipated results of tests conducted at the Technion's Biological Faculty on the "alien" discovered by Tziona Damti would be announced. The next day arrived and the wide circulation daily Yediot Ahronot published the results. While admitting that they weren't given enough material from the alien to conduct proper tests, the scientists from the Technion identified cow dung. That's right, cow manure. Another of the Damti's "UFO experts" Uriah Shai appeared on Channel One's 5 PM news program and for the first time since the event began a week before, was grilled. The announcer wanted an answer to the cow dung conclusion and why he refused to give up "two millimetres for a proper examination." By Tuesday, ten years of serious UFO research were being jeopardised. A guest at the Eilat conference, Dr. Noah Brosh was given two pages in Maariv to dismiss all ufology as a hoax. To back his claim he jumped on the cow dung found at Achihod and the UFO that won't appear over Tel Aviv on January the fifth. When it doesn't show up, another stake will be driven into the public's heart about the study of UFOs. Since 1987, a totally skeptical Israeli public has been moved towards acceptance of a profound UFO wave in their country by the responsible evidence gathering of serious ufologists. In just one week, a few hucksters have compromised all the good work. One disappointed Tel Aviv-area researcher said, "It's been a serious setback but we'll learn from the mistakes made at Achihod. However, the next serious incidents will face widespread disbelief again no matter how convincing the evidence and testimony." end -------------------------------------------- Sent by Barry Chamish - Israeli journalist. Phone/Fax : (972)-2-9914936 E-Mail : chamish@netmedia.net.il --------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Drake's Equation From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 04:08:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:25:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 09:29:21 -0800 > From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > References: <2.2.32.19970103150617.00b74abc@mail.globalserve.net> > > From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > > Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 16:25:13 -0400 > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Drake's Equation > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Re: The Drake Equation, it should be noted that it > > totally ignores colonization and migration, the 2 > > major factors in determining the distribution of > > intelligent life on earth. > > Stan Friedman > A note to the nuclear physicists, consultants and conspiracy theorists > on this list regarding basic math and its application to the Drake > equation: > The Drake equation starts with a total possible population: i.e., the > number of stars in our galaxy. That number is well established. It also > includes the estimated average number that can develop life in star > systems that have developed planets. That number is not well > established. Those are the only numbers that are greater than one in the > entire application of the Drake equation. The remainding factors are > stated in terms of percentages and/or probabilities. In the mathematical > world of probabilities, the highest number is 1, or 100%. I think discussing the Drake equation is a waste of time but while I am wasting it let me say that you have misrepresented the equation to start with. My reference is Drakes own book, Is Anyone Out There by Drake and Sobel page 52 (in Chapter 3 - A Compounding of Uncertainties in which he describes how the equation came about). Drake states: "Of course I didn't have real value for most of the factors. But I did have a compelling equation that summarized the topics to be discussed: The number (N) of detectable civilizations in space equals the rate (R) of star formation, times the fraction (Fp) of stars that form planets, times the number (Ne) of planets hospitable to life, times the fraction (Fl) of those planets where life actually emerges, times the fraction (Fi)of planets where life evolves into intelligent beings, times the fraction (Fc) of planets with intelligent creatures capable of interstellar communication, times the length of time (L) that such a civilization remains detectable." Note that he does not start with the number of stars in our galaxy. He starts with the rate of star formation, a rate. He goes on to state: "My agenda equation later became known as the Drake Equation. It amazes me to this day to see it displayed prominently in most textbooks on astronomy, often in a big, important-looking box. I've even seen it printed in the New York Times."...... I'm always surprised to find it viewed as one of the great icons of science, because it didn't take any deep intellectual effort or insight on my part..... Sometimes people who are unfamiliar with the scientific picture of cosmic and biological evolution think the equation is highly speculative. In fact, it is just the opposite, since each phenomenon it assumes to take place in the universe is an event that has already taken place at least once." The factors that Stanton Friedman mentioned very well qualify as phenomenon which have taken place at least once in the universe. Drake does not follow his own reasoning in the factors he chose to include in the equation he developed for the meeting at Greenbank. > Sorry to disullusion the nuclear physicists, consultants and conspiracy > theorists on this list, but I felt the need to remind all of some very > basic math principles that have apparently been overlooked in the > application of conspiracy theories to the Drake equation. > Ed Stewart You are reminding us that mis-information is easily spread and people are not above using the guise of mathematics and science to promulgate this intentionally or unintentionally. Gary Alevy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: 'Backlash' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 06:10:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:30:41 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' > From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' > > Yep, basic technical knowledge. If you can set up a PC from out of > > the box you could probably get an inexpensive monitoring system up > > and running. > This should be the goal of EVERY serious abduction researcher. In > fact, it should probably be the definition of what a serious abduction > researcher is. First, deal with the psychological trauma, without > judgement or interest in the potential alien knowledge. Then deal > with the assumed cause of the trauma through monitoring. (I'm going > to drop the polite nature for a moment, John, please forgive me.) There are plenty of basically technical people involved in ufology around the country that finding help would be pretty straightforward. > It is absolutely unthinkable and a black mark on those scientifically > and ethically interested in UFOs that there are self-claimed abduction > researchers (Yes, Greg, I mean that in a negative sense) who are using > their knowledge of psychology and therapy, either hypno-thearpy or > otherwise, to gain knowledge about an alleged experience, and then > will report on that alleged experience without attempting to verify > the experience physically. I think the unprofessionalism could be nearly overlooked if there wasn't a sense of urgency about so-called alien abductions. After all, its these same abduction researchers who have told us repeatedly that these alleged events occur routinely (nearly monthly), and that they are transgenerational. > In other fields of psycology, this is resulting in license revocation. > Most specifically, in cases of child abuse that never occured, yet the > therapist assured both the police and the courts that it did. And in > at least one case, licenses were removed from therapists who misused > their position in relation to an alien abduction case. I'm glad to hear that! I'm a little surprised that 'hypnotherapy' is getting such soft treatment from the AMA and APA. > Today, respected therapists work with other agencies when a > psycological trauma is discovered. These auxillary agencies help > identify the real worlds, physical source of the problem, while the > therapist helps with the psycological trauma that is the result. Such > common sense approaches are absent in UFOlogy today. Yes, currently we have the hypnotherapist trying to do everything and that just doesn't make sense. > > > I also think that we, the researchers, should be able to turn the > > > gear off without the knowledge of the subject. > > Why? > To prevent convenant abductions during known off times. Sure, I get it, that's a good idea. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 09:57:35 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:28:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? A number of posts on this list have mentioned the photo-article by David Percy in Fortean Times #94 in which he argues that there are serious internal consistancies in the Apollo lunar photos that suggest they could only have been set up in a studio. I don't think he denies the lunar landings but implies that the video and still pix do not correspond. Granted, this is at the whacky end of our interests, but as a professional photographer who has pored over NASA supplied material for a couple of years, he does ask some interesting questions. To balance this, we are planning - in FT98 - to present some critical reactions. We are seeking rebuttals from any NASA scientists, astronomers or anyone who has special knowledge of lunar photography or the Apollo programme. If anyone can refer me to some expert of this nature, who'll venture a paragraph or two of response, please let me know. If you have the inclination, please feel free to join in too. I will supply a copy of the article promptly. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Bob Rickard: Editor, Fortean Times email: bob@forteana.win-uk.net *"In the topography of intellection, knowledge is ignorance surrounded by laughter." (Charles Fort)* WWW homepage: http://www.forteantimes.com/ ## FT: Where the extraordinary is just another day at the office ##
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: UFO Military/Government Witnesses From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 03:30:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:24:10 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Military/Government Witnesses > From: rich.boylan@24stex.com > Organization: 24th Street Exchange > Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 09:20:58 -0800 > Subject: Dr. Greer's Jan.1 lette > To: updates@globalserve.net > Dr. Steven Greer's posting, announcing the expiration of the period for > federal protest of his plan to convene military witnesses to retrievals of UFOs > and occupants, is most welcome. Now that he has obtained implied consent from > the President, the Director of Central Intelligence, and the Chairs of the > Senate and House Intelligence Committees to have these witnesses speak, Project > Starlight can go forward with facilitating either Congressional Hearings, a > U.N. presentation, or a world press conference televised globally. > I applaud his efforts, and look forward to the emergence of the truth > about UFO reality and ET presence this year. > Richard Boylan, Ph.D. Hoping to stir up the pot - I write: Unless he IS a part of some covert plan to reveal the "truth" I wouldn't say he obtained implied consent - I would say he was ignored. Perhaps ignored by the powers you have named, the way we ignore the generations of ants that live and die all around us. Don't hold your breath for Congressional hearings to reveal the truth either. Look at the effectiveness of Congressional investigations in determining the exposure of our troops to possible chemical and/or biological weapons in Desert Storm. Did you see any political figure standing beside the CIA analyst who went to the wall? The U.N. isn't exactly looked upon by the American public as the source of hidden "truth" either. Remember there are eight nations which refused to sign the UN agreement on ETI notification so I would not count on their promoting presentations in any UN body other than presentations held under the auspices of the the UN social clubs. Gary Alevy (I don't see any relevance to including my degree here).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 UpComing UK UFO Conferences From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 06:49:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:33:13 -0500 Subject: UpComing UK UFO Conferences Dear Colleagues, UFO Magazine has organised several major conferences to be staged throughout the United Kingdom during 1997: SOLIHULL INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE CENTRE (West Midlands) Saturday, 22 February [11.00am - 7.30pm] "UFO CONFERENCE" - Guest Speakers (confirmed) include: A.J. Gevaerd (Brazil) Anthony Dodd (UK) John Carpenter (UK) Graham W. Birdsall (UK) Russel Callaghan (UK) SOLIHULL INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE CENTRE (West Midlands) Sunday, 23 February [10.00am - 7.30pm] "THE TERRESTRIAL CONNECTION" - Guest Speakers (confirmed) include: Graham Hancock (UK) Robert Bauval (UK) Ananda Sirisena (Sri Lanka) John Anthony West (UK) Mark Carlotto (USA) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- LEEDS UNIVERSITY CONFERENCE AUDITORIUM (Northern England) Wednesday, 26 February [7.00pm - 10.00pm] "AN EVENING WITH A.J. GEVAERD & JOHN CARPENTER" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- FALKIRK TOWN HALL (Scotland) Saturday, 1 March [11.00am - 7.30pm] "UFO CONFERENCE" - Guest Speakers (confirmed) include: A.J. Gevaerd (Brazil) Anthony Dodd (UK) John Carpenter (UK) Graham W. Birdsall (UK) Russel Callaghan (UK) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- NEWCASTLE CIVIC CENTRE (Northeast England) Saturday, 3 May [11.00am - 7.30pm] "UFO CONFERENCE" -Guest Speakers (confirmed) include: Anthony Dodd (UK) William 'Bill' Holden (USA) Graham W. Birdsall (UK) Russel Callaghan (UK) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- IMPERIAL COLLEGE (London) Saturday & Sunday, 21-22 June [11.00am - 7.30pm each day] "50TH ANNIVERSARY UFO CONFERENCE" - Guest Speakers (confirmed) include: Anthony Dodd (UK) George Knapp (USA) Graham W. Birdsall (UK) Russel Callaghan (UK) Nick Pope (UK) Stanton T. Friedman (Canada) * One further speaker to be announced --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- LEEDS UNIVERSITY CONFERENCE AUDITORIUM (Northern England) Friday evening [7.00pm - 10.00pm, Saturday & Sunday [11.00am - 7.00pm] 19-21 September "16th LEEDS INTERNATIONAL UFO CONFERENCE" - Guest Speakers (confirmed) include: Anthony Dodd (UK) Brian O'Leary (USA) Graham W. Birdsall (UK) Russel Callaghan (UK) Carlos Diaz (Mexico) * Three further speakers to be announced --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- * TICKET DETAILS & CONFERENCE BOOKING FORM CAN BE FOUND ON OUR WWW SITE: http://www.ufomag.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------- Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 06:16:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:31:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> > >But in certain areas, especially in ufology, I think its real > important to stick with what we know, (what we really know), until > we've exhausted all that we know, before moving into stuff we aren't > so sure about. > I think the most compelling argument is "until we've exhausted all > that we know..." I think we've done that...and must continue to do so > with with all new data. > I agree in principle, especially to rule out all that can be explained > by what we know. However, we do have a considerable fund of data that > cannot be explained by what we "really" know for certain. I'm not so sure we're there yet. I think we've done at least a reasonable job on a case by case basis, of at least the major cases, but there still hasn't been good analysis on the higher level of the mass of cases. > Therefore, > it seems necessary to consider other well-developed and considered > hypothetical positions to determine if these positions offer a more > reasonable or consistent explanation. > It seems reasonable to search through other "alternative explanations" > as long as these "alternatives" are or have been presented in our more > traditional scientific journals and that these positions are presented > in accord with our traditional scientific method (or an alternative > method) as long as the presentation is logical, consistent and > compelling. Nothing wrong with that as long as we stay close enough to the scientific method to make these alternative explanations testable hypotheses. > A reasonable next step is to identify a list of "alternative > positions" to consider. Rupert Sheldrake's theory of morphic resonance > would be another reasonable candidate high on my own list. Can you briefly state that theory and how it can be tested? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 1 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 05:58:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:29:18 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 1 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 1 January 5, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor New year, new volume, new layout, new editor. Looks like some changes here at UFO ROUNDUP. Actually, it's the same editor, using his birth name instead of a screen name. Readers, let us know how you like our new look. One thing hasn't changed, though, and that's the number of UFO sightings. We have a bumper crop to kick off the new year, so read on... UFO HOVERS OVER CINCINNATI MALL On Tuesday, December 24, 1996, at 8 p.m., four people were driving down Moneycreek Road in Cincinnati, Ohio. They were "out looking at the Christmas lights," but the lights they saw hovering over the Western Hills Plaza shopping center had nothing to do with the holiday. The quartet observed "a huge, phoenix-shaped object with headlights" hovering above the shopping center, which had closed at 6 p.m. The UFO hovered 100 feet above the mall. "The headlights were described as large and white, situated in a triangular arrangement on each corner, with a large red light in the center. There was no flight or departure path noted, as the object suddenly vanished from view," according to Kenneth Young, public relations director of the Tri-State Advocates for Scientific Knowledge (T.A.S.K.) which is investigating the sighting. This is the third UFO sighting near the Western Hills Plaza in the past 18 months. On July 28, 1996, at 7 p.m., two oblong, silvery disc-shaped objects were seen over Hamilton Avenue, not far from the mall. And in July 1995, a resident of Schwartze Avenue, off Moneycreek Road, reported seeing "a black, chevron-shaped object floating in and out of the clouds above Western Hills Plaza." During 1996, T.A.S.K. recorded a total of 41 UFO encounters in southern Ohio. Ken Young said, "UFO reports from the area have not been generated in such numbers since the legendary wave in 1973." (Many thanks to Ken Young and T.A.S.K. for this report.) TWO UFO ENCOUNTERS IN CENTRAL FLORIDA On Saturday, December 21, 1996, at about 11 p.m., Robert J. and his friend, Matthew M., were driving on Highway 44 in Eustis, Florida (population 9,500), north of Orlando when they spotted three UFOs in the sky. Robert said the UFOs were "round" and "carried red and blue lights" which "blinked every three or four minutes. We watched for five minutes or so, and then an airplane approached the crafts, and they vanished." He estimated that the UFOs were 2,000 feet above ground. Three days later, on Tuesday, December 24, at 11:47 p.m., Kathy E., a friend of the boys, spotted two UFOs hovering over Forest Drive in Eustis, not far from Highway 44. She reported that one UFO approached from the east and one from the west. Like the objects seen on December 21, these UFOs carried slow-blinking red and blue lights. (Email Interview) LEAR JET AND PILOTS ARE STILL MISSING U.S. Air Force, Army National Guard and over 200 volunteer searchers have been unable to locate the Lear jet which vanished over the upper Connecticut River valley at 10 a.m. on Tuesday, December 24. Missing are Johan Schwartz, 31, of Westport, Connecticut and Pat Hayes, 30, of Clinton, Conn. The men took off in a Lear jet from Sikorsky Aiport in Bridgeport, Conn. to pick up four passengers in Lebanon, New Hampshire. Because of persistent rain and fog, Schwartz and Hayes aborted their first approach into Lebanon and circled the field for a second try. As they began to circle, the Lebanon tower first lost voice contact and then radar contact with the Lear jet. Ground searchers climbed nearby Moose Mountain but found no trace of the missing plane. Aerial search has been hampered by persistent fog and rain in the Upper Valley. On Friday, December 27, two low-flying U.S. Air Force jets retraced the flight's route from Bridgeport, Conn. to Lebanon, N.H. but found nothing. On Saturday, December 28, divers checked a lake near Salisbury, N.H. but found no traces of the missing jet. On Sunday, December 29, Major James Finkle grounded the New York Air National Guard search helicopter when falling temperatures threatened to ice over the aircraft's rotor blades. Dr. Paul Schwartz, father of one of the pilots, has asked Governor Howard Dean of Vermont to conduct a comprehensive search of the area north of White River Junction. On Wednesday, January 1, 1997, about 150 volunteer searchers, including two dozen friends and family members of the missing men, took to the woods. Governor Steve Merrill of New Hampshire pledged that the search would continue through the weekend. Three helicopters are now engaged in the air search. Vermont State Police and emergency management officials plan to coordinate their efforts with New Hampshire's. (See the Boston, Mass. Herald for December 30, 1996, January 2, 1997 and January 4, 1997) COLOMBIAN AIRMAN VIDEOTAPES SIX UFOs TV viewers in Bogota, the capital of Colombia, were stunned Sunday evening, December 22, 1996, when station NTC broadcast a video showing six glowing discoidal UFOs in flight over the city. The "objetos voladores" were filmed on Friday morning, December 13, by Corporal Juan Carlos Morales of the Fuerza Aerea Colombiana (FAC). Corporal Morales was aboard a Transport Command multi-engined plane, flying over the Cordillera Central, when he happened to glance out the window. Looking toward Mount Monserrate (2,500 feet or 810 meters), Corporal Morales spotted six silvery self-luminous discs emerging from a cloud. The discs were flying in two separate rows, heading for Bogota. Grabbing his videocam, he began shooting footage. The UFOs passed over the Avenida Jimenez de Quesada and the Plaza de Toros de Santa Maria, heading in a northeasterly direction. Major Gonzalo Cardenas, chief of the FAC Tranport Command, told NTC that the UFOs were not captured on radar by the air force traffic control center at El Dorado International Airport. (See the newspaper Correo de Povo of Porto Alegre, Brazil for December 23, 1996.) (Muchas gracias to our friend Castagni for this story.) NEW SIGHTING IN SAO PAULO STATE About ten days after the Bogota overflight, there was another UFO sighting in the state of Sao Paulo, in southeastern Brazil. The sighting took place on or about Monday, December 23, 1996 in the city of Santo Andre (population 1.1 million), which is 30 kilometers (19 miles) southeast of Sao Paulo. Santo Andre, together with Sao Caetano do Sul and Sao Bernardo, forms the heart of Brazil's automotive industry. Jacinta Fagundes de Mello, who lives in a high- rise apartment building in Santo Andre, stepped onto her balcony and saw "a strange balloon with bright blinking lights underneath, like small fireworks." At first Jacinta thought it was a balloon sent aloft by a neighborhood "festa." Grabbing a pair of Zeiss binoculars, she looked again and "saw a huge shadowy shape above the lights. I realized that it was not a balloon at all." She went to get her boyfriend, urging him to look through the binoculars. He did and let out a shout. Immediately afterward, the UFO "increased its speed from about motionless to an overwhelming velocity. At the same time, we saw a falling star on the horizon, and another, very close, the size of a plane that came over the neighboring apartment building and disappeared behind the residential complex." (Muito obrigado to Brazilian ufologist Sergio Graciotti for this story.) UFOs SIGHTED OVER THUNDER BAY, ONTARIO On Saturday, December 28, 1996, at 3 p.m., residents of Thunder Bay, Ontario (population 120,000) saw a silvery object in the southwestern sky, seemingly hovering over the Sibley Peninsula, a wilderness park jutting out into Lake Superior. The Thunder Bay Chronicle-Journal received calls from dozens of eyewitnesses, as did Ivan Sherlock, director of the Thunder Bay chapter of MUFON. The object was visible from Hillcrest Park, Victoria Avenue, the Intercity Shopping Centre on Fort William Road and the Port Arthur waterfront section of the city. Captain George Paterson of the city's Salvation Army chapter told reporter Gail Cohen of the Chronicle-Journal, "We saw something over the harbour Saturday," adding that he was originally "not a believer and thought it was a helicopter or a balloon, but the object left the area very quickly. It was definitely there, and it was interesting enough to get my attention." Three days earlier, on December 21, Lori Eaton and her husband were driving down John Street when they saw "a white light" to the southwest near the city's landfill site. "We looked up, and the white light was gone, and there were blue and green lights," she said. "I've never seen anything like it." As they drew closer, she added, the object hovered right over their car before zooming off. In November, solitary UFOs were seen in Sudbury, Ont. and Ardbeg, Ont., just east of Lake Huron. (See the Thunder Bay Chronicle-Journal for January 1, 1997 "Thunder Bay Sightings Continue") (Thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp of UFO UpDates for this story.) DEAD ALIEN STIRS CONTROVERSY IN ISRAEL The reported "dead alien" found at Kibbutz Achihod near Ahyud on December 22, 1996 continues to make headlines in Israel. On Monday, December 30, the Biological Facility of Haifa's Technion Institute announced the results of its analysis of the 5-centimeter-tall humanoid cadaver found by Mrs. Zyona Damti, 34, beside her father-in-law's barn. According to the newspaper Yediot Ahronot, spokesmen for the institute said "they were not given enough material for the team to conduct proper tests" but announced anyway that the material was "cow manure." In appearances on Israeli television Channels One and Two, ufologists Debby Segal and Uriah Shai, who are representing the Damti family, disputed the findings. Shai was asked why he had reportedly refused to give all of the material to the Technion Institute, retaining two millimeters for the Damti family. The following day, Tuesday, December 31, in an interview with Maariv, distinguished scientist Dr. Noah Brosch reportedly dismissed the "humanoid"--and all of ufology--as "a hoax." This did not halt the UFO furor in Israel. By Saturday night, January 4, 1997, talk show lines were buzzing with the latest rumor. A prediction, attributed by some to Israeli psychic Uri Geller, claimed that giant saucers would appear over Tel Aviv and two other locations in Israel after sunset on January 5. (Many thanks to Israel journalist Barry Chamish for this story.) (Editor's Comment: Very wise, Mr. Shai, holding onto those two millimeters of the evidence. Lock them up in a safe place. Concerning this case, I will only point out one thing--I have yet to meet the dairy farmer who did not know the difference between a small green humanoid, a lizard embryo and a "cow pie.") HALE-BOPP IS ACTING UP AGAIN According to Sky & Telescope, Comet Hale-Bopp is set to enter the inner solar system January 8. At this point, the comet's "distance from the Sun falls below 1.66 astronomical units," (15,438,000,000 miles or 24,708,000,000 kilometers), about the orbit of Mars. According to an article in Newsday, "Astronomer Zdenek Sekanina of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, said comet Hale-Bopp 'is doing pretty well lately, as far as activity is concerned.' He added that the rate at which the comet's brightness was increasing slowed for a while 'but very recently it apparently picked up again.'" "At present, Sekanina said, 'there have been reports of seven jets emanating from the nucleus' of the comet. And analysis of the jets suggests the comet's icy body may be rotating slowly, perhaps once every six to eight days." There have been no further sightings of the Hale-Mary, the anomalous object reported flying in formation with Hale-Bopp during November. Hale-Bopp is now very low on the horizon. The best viewing is in Canada and northern Europe. But Sky & Telescope has kindly provided the coordinates for this week, if any of our readers care to aim their telescopes or satellite dishes at it. Date Right Ascension Declination January 6 18h 50.15m +6 02.2 January 8 18h 53.35m +6 35.0 January 10 18h 56.64m +7 09.3 MORE FUN UFO WEBSITES Want to find out how the Beyond Boundaries crew made out on their trip to Mexico? Find out at Joyce Murphy's site. It's at this URL: http://rampages.onramp.net The UFO Information Centre in the Netherlands is currently updating their site. It'll be ready in a week or so. New features include crop circles, a News page and a newsletter in Dutch and English. Try http://www.telebyte.nl/~deano/UFOIC/ Frelon Cyberspace has one of the best Link systems around. It's like a Stargate linking all of the best sites in the UFO community. Try them at http://www.clinet.fi/~frelon/ufo.html Come and celebrate the new year at our parent site, UFO INFO! You can find it at this URL... http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm THE ROUNDUP PLEDGE As we start the news year, once more we'd like to reiterate the Roundup Pledge. That is, our promise to you, the readers, to deliver the complete and comprehensive UFO news as quickly as possible. Let the philosophers grope for "the truth." You readers want the facts about UFOs--who saw them, where were they seen, what did they look like--and it's our job to deliver those facts. We invite readers to submit their UFO reports to our email address--Masinaigan@aol.com. The Roundup will always scrupulously protect the confidentiality of UFO eyewitnesses. Your name and address will never be used unless you yourself grant us permission to use it. Our philosophy? The same as 18th Century American newspaper editor, Isaiah Thomas, namely, "Print the news and raise hell." We're off on another great year. We look forward to having you with us as we tackle UFO sightings throughout 1997. Best wishes from "the paper that goes home-- UFO ROUNDUP." Search for other documents from or mentioning: masinaigan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Sun, 05 Jan 97 16:38:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 21:41:08 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and Counter-Intelligence Greg: re Frank Drake. I have no idea how Drake's ongoing security clearances would have effected his SETI work and don't see much point in speculating about it. His latest book with Dava Sobel certainly has a load of nonsense about both interstellar travel and UFOs.Disinformation?? I don't know.My point in response to a question was only that there is a more clear indication of his having access to highly classified material then for Sagan. It is interesting that Berkner of MJ-12 fame was very encouraging to Drake about his Ozma work. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 6 Project 1947 - 1956 PAA Radar Case From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:40:34 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 21:39:30 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 1956 PAA Radar Case From FLIGHT CONTROL, magazine of the Eclipse-Pioneer Division of Bendix Aviation Corporation, Jan-Feb 1957, Page 13. "BENDIX RADAR SPOTS MYSTERY OBJECT "An unidentified flying object (UFO) traveling about 4,000 mph was spotted near Miami, Florida recently by a Bendix RDR-1A weather radar, according to an article in the Miami Herald. "Donald Freestone, Pan American World Airways radar expert, said he picked up the UFO while testing the radar equipment in the PAA shop at Miami International Airport. "Six of his colleagues, confirming the report, said it appeared much larger than ordinary aircraft and had a double pattern resembling an hourglass or figure eight. "It disappeared and reappeared several times traveling at a terrific speed estimated to be 4,000 mph. "(Editor's note: Giant rockets, such as the Viking, fired from this area from time to time, can attain 4,000 miles per hour.)" * * * * * The date of the above report was 8 Nov 1956. Accounts also appeared in THE CLIPPER, Pan-American Airlines' magazine, January 1957, and the Miami DAILY NEWS, 8 nov 1956. John, a test of the list. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Project 1947 - Backgrounder On Rutkowski & Aldrich From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@CC.UMANITOBA.CA> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:54:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:28:22 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Backgrounder On Rutkowski & Aldrich Drew Williamson writes: > >Ed Stewart has proposed an on-going bibliography project involving > >newsclippings. Indexed in the project with be the large microfilm > >collections: > Glad to see someone else has picked up on this idea. When I was first > started soliciting for this type of information for my database, there > didn't seem to be too much interest. > Correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds like this database would be > concerned with only those clippings that report cases. When I first started in ufology, I began a clipping/article collection. Since I was at a university, it was relatively easy to scour all the scientific journals for relevant articles. AT that time, Interlibrary Loans were free, and I was able to get all sorts of fascinating documents. (My best aquisition was a photocopy of the *entire* Catoe bibliography from the Library of Congress!) I kept up the local newspaper clippings, but I quickly dropped those that were outside of my geographical area unless they were of specific interest. I also assessed the quality of the newspaper articles in my decision. Given that most newspaper accounts had major errors in facts and details, as well as biases, I valued them somewhat less for the purposes of collecting. I still have most of the articles, although basement floods, moves, divorces and other such annoyances have caused some of the files to disappear. I still have an excellent local clipping collection, although I was humbled when Jan showed up in town and promptly found a half-dozen more pre-1947 cases that I hadn't heard of before! Still, I have somewhat more than 1000 local UFO cases on file now, between clippings, articles and personal investigations. My problem has always been storage and time limitations. While I've collected the local stuff, collecting articles from papers in distant towns did not seem cost-effective to me at the time. I can understand the archival reasons now, but earlier in my career it was less important than local investigations. I could investigate cases in my geographical region, but to dig through morgues in other cities for those regional cases seemed to "far-afield." Having said that, I have to say I admire Jan and the others in the Project 1947 group for travelling around and digging through archives and microfilm reels. They are all finding many, many cases that otherwise would have been ignored or missing forever. I would vote that historical ufology is a field unto itself, clearly separate from the abduction frenzy, conspiracy tenets and actual case investigations. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 97 11:34:42 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:30:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs John Powell, seeking galactic guidance said; >There has been a lot of work based on a lack of a definition of a >phenomenon. Oh, that's an easy one. Just lean on John Archibald Wheeler who said; "No phenomena is a phenomena unless it's an observed phenomena" He also said; "The universe exists "out there" independent of acts of registration, but the universe does not exist out there independent of acts of registration." With that in mind, one can only conclude that no conclusions are possible. Things keep changing in such a way that the universe itself appears forever young and yet ageless beyond the imagination. This calls for a steady state universe, one with which there is no room for destiny or pre-ordained things. Mankind himself is only one brief ember in a sea of embers that make up that raging fire of the universe, life. Even without any equation to relate possibilities, even the most humble of minds can gaze into the heavens and register this phenomena. I think most have. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 08:50:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:27:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel Many thanks to Drew Williamson, who's better organized than I am. I wrote: > Yesterday, breezing through a magazine at a large newsstand, I skimmed a > piece about research into FTL travel at, hold your breath, NASA and the > prestigious Jet Propulsion Laboratory. But I couldn't remember the name of the magazine! Drew Williamson supplies it, in an independent post: > I would strongly suggest the > February issue of 'Final Frontier'. The article, 'Mind Fields, NASA looks > into breakthrough physics', talks about a wholly new approach to propulsion > systems. It would seem that the scientific field is now open to discussing > the possibility of exotic means of propulsion such as; warp drives, > anti-gravity, using worm holes, anti-proton propulsion, beamed energy, > fusion rockets, and space tethers. That's exactly the piece I was talking about. Thanks, Drew! Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Jan 97 14:49:44 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:32:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel For a good summary of current thinking on FTL travel and communications, and why most ideas won't work, read _Faster Than Light: Superluminal Loopholes in Physics_ by Nick Herbert. Yes, some physicists think that FTL travel is possible. It does not even violate Einstein if you do not pass through the space in between two points!!!! Warp drive. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Jan 97 14:49:40 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:32:03 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing As I understand it, a cryptogram is a message in which other characters are substituted for letters in a known alphabet, producing a message in a known language. The writing which Budd [Hopkins] has, and which he has shown me, looks more like a real alphabet or possibly a syllabary. Since Budd asked me to keep details confidential for research reasons, I will not discuss the "letters" and/or "symbols" used, but they look like no letters and/or symbols I have seen in any modern or ancient "alphabet". I'm not sure just what [John Powell] thinks a cryptographer would accomplish by looking at these. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Jan 97 13:51:50 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:31:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Bob Shell <76750.2717@CompuServe.Com> >Subject: Moon Photos???? >Date: 03 Jan 97 16:10:02 EST << >Even though NASA says that the photos were taken in sunlight with no artificial >light, he shows clearly that multiple light sources were used to make some >photos, and either giant banks of lights or giant reflectors used in some (and >clearly reflected in the faceplates of the helmets!!!!). In many the angles of >the shadows just don't work for a point-source light at a great distance (the >sun) which would produce parallel shadows. Here we have shadows at varying >angles across the photos, triangulating on a light source just outside the >picture area. A nice theory, and the same that Marcus Allen relies on in his largely 'shrugging' dissertation on the subject, 'preferring that other people make up their minds'. Yeah, right. So, I'd be interested to know why photographers use large white boards in addition to flash on photographs, particularly portraits. This would be 'fill-in', to reduce shadows, right? So, anyone want to look out the window and estimate the reflectivity of lunar regolith? On a similar point, we have a large vehicle made of aluminium and gold foil. Anyone feel like checking out this for is reflecting charecteristics? However, I have to say (with an apologetic nod to Graham) that the FT article was better than the one produced in 'The Unopened Files' from the publishers of UK 'UFO magazine'. I'll use page numbers for brevity. col 1, p66 - "Reflection in the face plate", clearly reflected regolith, a non-starter. col 3, p66-67 - "Shadow of the rocket nozzle on the surface", laughable, as it's a picture of the attitude adjuster up close. Close to the portside window of the LEM.. col 3, p67 - "lack of 'blast' holes under the LEM", descent was controlled with the thruster far above the surface to stop dust being kicked up. col 1-3, p67 - "Out of proportion lunar rover", ridiculous claim. James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Project 1947 - 5001st Composite Wing From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 08:45:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:29:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - 5001st Composite Wing > Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 00:24:41 -0500 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project 1947 - 5001st Composite Wing > > Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:24:16 -0800 > > From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> > > Subject: 5001st Composite Wing > > To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > [snip] > > "Project Pinball > > "With Site F-9 going into operation in December, Project Pinball was > > established for the purpose of analysis of unidentified activity as > > reported by this Site. The Intelligence Section was charge with the > > successful accomplishment of this project which consists of preparing > > daily track studies, graphic presentation, and reporting periodically to > > the Commanding Officer." > [snip] > Is Project Pinball the project in which Wendell Stevens participated in > Alaska and has described as collecting optical and instrumentation data > obtained by bomber crews on UFOs? > Gary Alevy Hi Gary, Wendell Stevens' creditability is not great with me. The material that I have indicates that Project Pinball concerned unresolved radar tracks. The institutional memory of this project in the Alaskan Command and Pacific Air Force (PACAF) is gone. So we can only rely on records. Records in several unit histories and from FOIA do not show anything about optical tracking from bombers. The records indicate that this was an Air Defense and Intelligence operation. Possibly, there is more to it then that. There were some of indications from other commands radar was showing all types of unknown. In Japan in 1952 we had just established an air defense radar network. They also were coming up with a lot of unknown tracks. Some of these involved operator inexperience, some involved aircraft deviating from flight plans, and some were just unknown. They instituted tighter controls and number of unknown tracks went down, but those that remained seemed very interesting for people like us. The Soviets were constantly testing our defenses by flying around and close to and penetrating our radar coverage. They were probably, as we did with "Wild Wessel" flights, employing electronic countermeasures to confuse our radar net and to give false returns. Their Special Forces would also establish a short present here or there, especially in the Aleutian Chain. The 5004th Air Intelligence Service Squadron (AISS) had a special program to try to detect these insertions of small parties and activities off Alaska which involved one or two 5004th AISS members living in small settlements, and with Indian and Eskimo communities. Records of Project Pinball probably exist in the Alaskan Air Command and the 5004th AISS files. Jan Aldrich Project 1947 Search for other documents from or mentioning: jan | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Jan 97 14:49:47 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:33:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? Before taking me to task for mentioning this, people should at least LOOK at the photos and read the article. I know it sounds looney, but this guy has done his homework and I find it hard to argue with his statements. If the photos reproduced in FT are real NASA photos, then we have a problem which must be addressed, and NASA must be forced to explain these anomalies. The laws of physics haven't changed, and a point source light at a great distance casts parallel shadows. These photos ought to have parallel shadows, but some of them manifestly do not. That is a serious problem, since it implies either a much closer light source (mere meters instead of hundreds of thousands of miles). Before laughing this off, LOOK at the photos. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: "Albert G. Baier" <ABAIER@MSM.MEA.COM> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 13:44:50 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:34:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel Regarding faster than light travel (Greg Sandow, 6 JAN 97). If you're not familiar with Bob Lazar's claims, please review them. His claims (which may have been made by others, does anyone know?) are, to me, the most reasonable-sounding. The idea of a physical body _moving_ at near light velocities strikes me as ridiculous, as do wormholes, parallel universes, etc. I don't subscribe to 'party-line' physics, either. Read "The Einstein Myth and the Ives Papers", edited by Dean Turner and Richard Hazelett. This will give you a proper understanding of 'relativity', 'space-time continuum', and all the other metaphysical nonsense that's passed of as 'science' today. Included, as a bonus, is J.J. Callahan's 1931 _proof_ of Euclid's parallel postulate, which relegates Minkowski's metageometry to the hallucination bin. BTW, I'd rather argue religion with a fundamentalist, than 'physics' with a 'physicist'. The fundamentalists are more reasonable! Thanks for listening! Al
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 16:11:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:36:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel Re FTL travel: In the first place faster than light travel as opposed to say 99.9c travel is not required to travel to local neighborhood stars such as Zeta l and Zeta 2 Reticuli. In the second place there is a huge amount of serious information about interstellar travel mostly done by engineers. One bibliography years ago by Mallove and Forward had well over 2500 references. Except for the negative academic studies having no relationship to the real world (i.e. by Purcell), these are essentially never refdrenced by the SETI people. Look at the Drake-Sobel book "Are we Alone"? Look at his references...the only UFO book is "Out There" by Howard Blum which must win some prizes for inaccuracy. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 16:01:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:35:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs Let us not forget that a quality evaluation was done by Battelle Memorial Institute in Project Blue Book Special Report 14 for more than 2000 cases. The better the quality the more likely to be an UNKNOWN.. precisely what one would expect if the UNKNOWNS were real and not misidentified knowns. The chi square comparison backed this up.Do recall as well that there was a separate category Insufficient Information and that it took agreement on the part of all 4 final evaluators to make a case UNKNOWN where as only 2 could label it anything else. Admittedly BBSR 14 isn't mentioned in 12 antiufo books even though all the authors were aware of it. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 19:40:38 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:41:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > Date: 05 Jan 97 16:54:28 EST > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > In your research did you find any reason why they didn't have a > photographer or motion picture cameraman on those planes? What planes do you allege were on the air at the time of the Trinity test? I am not aware of any. As far as I know the AAF wanted to send up a B-29 to test the ability of the plane to withstand the blast. I am not sure they even had the opportunity to do that. They had almost a zero visibility factor going against them the morning of the test. A terrible Gulf stream generated system of storms was over the test area. It rained cats and dogs. No stars were visible. The clouds were black and omminous. Lightening and thunder storms permeated the whole area. Strong winds were blasting the area even blowing down some of the scientist's tents. The test was postponed until the very last available minute. Everybody was fearful that the bomb would be set off inadvertenly by a lightening strike. But they were more worried that the test would had to be cancelled. There were strong political reasons being driven by the upcoming Potsdam conference to exercise the Trinity test on that date and a tiny window of opportunity opened up at 5:30am which they used to set off the bomb. I don't think they would of kept a B-29 flying in that weather for hours and hours. The photographic record of the test was synchronized and a part of the blast, optical and nuclear effects with seismographs, geophone, ionization chambers, spectrographs, films and a variety of gauges. I haven't found any references in the literature for air support studies associated with the above, or for that matter any aerial photography. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Drake's Equation From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Jan 97 15:54:10 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:37:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation Greg Sandow said, >Carl Sagan, for instance, argues that we couldn't possibly have even a >fraction of the interstellar visitors UFO reports seem to suggest. (Am I >allowed, a decent interval after his death, to say something critical?) >In his book The Cosmic Connection, he offers an argument to that effect, >based on guesswork about how many civilizations there are in the galaxy, >and how many places they might decide are "interesting" to visit. He >concludes that we could expect a visitor once every ten thousand years. >But there are two elementary possibilities he doesn't consider. The >first, and most obvious, is that people might be seeing the same craft >over and over again. Or (a la Independence Day) we might have been >visited by a huge "mother ship" that disgorges many smaller scouts. >The second is that we might be located on the fringe of a densely >populated sector of the galaxy. That makes us much more likely to be >visited, I'd think, than if we sat in an empty galactic waste. Sagan >assumes, without acknowledging the assumption, that all "interesting" >places are equally likely to be visited, or in other words that visitors >arrive more or less at random. That's hardly likely to be true. What about the idea that Earth was colonized by ETs millennia ago. We see UFOs so often because they come from here and are no longer extraterrestrial. We see them so seldom because they don't want to be seen. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Aliens a No-Show in Tel Aviv From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 16:07:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:38:19 -0500 Subject: Aliens a No-Show in Tel Aviv --------------------- Forwarded message: From: AOLNewsProfiles@aol.net Date: 97-01-06 13:35:55 EST .c The Associated Press TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) -- It wasn't even close to an encounter. Thousands of Israelis crowded Tel Aviv beaches early Monday, watching for extraterrestrials whose arrival was predicted by self-proclaimed Israeli psychic Helinor Harar. As the theme music from the TV show ``The X-Files'' resounded from loudspeakers, she shouted: ``Israel will be the center for UFO landings.'' Crews set up cameras across the country in hopes of filming the visitors, who Harar predicted would arrive Sunday night. But the only object she spotted was a plane about to land at Ben-Gurion airport. Harar, who predicted Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's upset election victory, later told Israel TV she had a new date for a landing -- Feb. 14, Valentine's Day. And she ventured another prediction: ``Until they fly over Hebron, there will be no agreement.'' Israel and the Palestinians are negotiating a troop pullout from the West Bank city. AP-NY-01-06-97 1332EST Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.</I></PRE></HTML> To edit your profile, go to keyword NewsProfiles. For all of today's news, go to keyword News. Search for other documents from or mentioning: rschatte |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 20:05:30 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:41:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > Date: 05 Jan 97 15:48:32 EST > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > So if any other footage of the atomic test other than Brixner's turn's up, > it must be fake footage then? Not at all. There were unauthorized snapshots taken which were confiscated at the time. One of them is on the cover of Richard Rhodes' book. But Brixner with his boss were the only ones tasked and authorized to photographically record the test. That is the straw that breaks the "cameraman's" story. He says he was tasked to photograph the TESTS. He was not and there was only one atomic test ever conducted in New Mexico. All other testing was either done in the Pacific or in Nevada, none of which was part of the Manhattan Project, White Sands, Los Alamos, Trinity, etc... > And if any footage of any other kind of tests at > the site were to turn up, they too would be fake? They wouldn't be footage of Trinity. There was only one atom bomb tested in New Mexico. Period. > What kind of film did Brixner shoot with? Was it colour or B&W? Was it > 16mm or 35mm? Brixner used over 50 cameras with different settings. Some were the Fastas cameras running up to 10,000 frames per second. Some cameras were set to run as slow as one frame per second and all settings in between with different exposures and different lenses. From 8mm to 35mm film stock was used, 8mm for the high-speed cameras. Brixner used black-and-white film, Panatomic X film, ASA 30. Some cameras also used Super Double-X and Plus X. For the exception of the one camera that Brixner was manning and the one that failed operated by his boss, all the other cameras were remotely set off synchronized to the other equipment recording and measuring the test. Brixner's camera add a pan and tilt capability. I suggest you avail yourself of the available literature on the Manhattan project and the Trinity test. It is extensive, detailed and available to the public. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Drake's Equation From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:17:37 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:40:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation > Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 04:08:58 -0500 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > References: <2.2.32.19970104175744.00b701d0@mail.globalserve.net> > I think discussing the Drake equation is a waste of time but while I am > wasting it let me say that you have misrepresented the equation to start > with. I agree that it is a waste of time discussing the Drake equation in a ufological context since there is no correlation between what SETI is all about and what some ufologists think that SETI is all about. Nevertheless, I have not misrepresented was is commonly referred to as the Drake equation. I suggest you acquaint yourself more fully with the entire SETI literature. > My reference is Drakes own book, Is Anyone Out There by Drake and > Sobel page 52 (in Chapter 3 - A Compounding of Uncertainties in which he > describes how the equation came about). Drake states: > "Of course I didn't have real value for most of the factors. But I did > have a compelling equation that summarized the topics to be discussed: > The number (N) of detectable civilizations in space equals the rate (R) > of star formation, times the fraction (Fp) of stars that form planets, > times the number (Ne) of planets hospitable to life, times the fraction > (Fl) of those planets where life actually emerges, times the fraction > (Fi)of planets where life evolves into intelligent beings, times the > fraction (Fc) of planets with intelligent creatures capable of > interstellar communication, times the length of time (L) that such a > civilization remains detectable." > Note that he does not start with the number of stars in our galaxy. He > starts with the rate of star formation, a rate. Once you bother to acquaint yourself more fully with the SETI literature you will find out that the "Drake equation" can take different forms and in fact it does. The original version, which you seem to imply is the only way to state it has a very common EQUIVALENT version: Original version as pointed out above: N = R * fp * ne * fl * fi * fc * L Equivalent version: N = Ns * fp * ne * fl * fi * fc * ft Where ft = the fraction of technical (communitative) civilizations still in existence in the galaxy and Ns = the number of stars in the galaxy. The two forms are related through the following identities: ft = R*L/Ns = L/As and R = Ns/As where As = the age of the galaxy, or the age of the stars being considered The Drake equation can also be defined in terms of a probability (Pc) that a technical communicative civilization exists in the galaxy, or as the ratio of the number of communicative civilizations in the galazy (N) to the number of stars in the galaxy (Ns): Pc = fp * ne * fl * fi *fc * ft and the Drake equation follows from: N = Ns * Pc It makes not one iota of difference which form one expresses the Drake equation in since they are all equivalent. Your argument that I have misrepresented the Drake equation is bogus, misleading and nothing but a strawman diversion away from the focus of the posting. [SNIP] > The factors that Stanton Friedman mentioned very well qualify as > phenomenon which have taken place at least once in the universe. Really? I was not aware there was a record of migration or colonization to another planet. Would you please enlighten the list? Inquiring minds would like to know. Nevertheless, it appears to me that if someone felt that colonization and migration were relevant factors, the Drake equation does have a factor where migration and colonization can be addressed, i.e., fc = the fraction of planets with intelligent creatures capable of interstellar communication. No where do I see any stipulations preventing someone wishing to make application of the Drake equation not to consider those factors in arriving at their entry for the fc factor. No where is it stipulated that only homegrown intelligent civilizations are to be considered. If one feels compelled to suggest that there are planets out there with transposed technical civilizations, all that is required is to jack up the answer to that factor more towards one and further away from zero in the probability version of the Drake equation. While we're at it, even though no one has yet addressed it, the same would apply towards panspermic theories in the application of the Drake equation's fl factor: the fraction of planets where life actually emerges. No where is it stipulated that only homegrown lifeforms are to be considered. Panspermia fans can utilize the Drake equation to reflect their thoughts on panspermia through their answer to the fl factor. > Drake > does not follow his own reasoning in the factors he chose to include in > the equation he developed for the meeting at Greenbank. The Drake equation is not about answers. There are no right answers. The elegance of the Drake equation comes from the thought processes required to consider the question how many tech civilizations are out there that we could communicate with? If anybody feels limited by the Drake equation it is not due to the Drake equation - but their own self-imposed strawman limitations on their own thought processes. For anyone to imply that the Drake equation is some manifestation of a UFO cover-up is simply preposterous. If people can't live with that, go out and create their own equation and throw it on the table. But trying to argue that the Drake equation itself has been contrived to keep the UFO community in the dark is simply ignorance attempting to justify a belief system in search of scapegoats. > > Sorry to disullusion the nuclear physicists, consultants and conspiracy > > theorists on this list, but I felt the need to remind all of some very > > basic math principles that have apparently been overlooked in the > > application of conspiracy theories to the Drake equation. > > > Ed Stewart > > You are reminding us that mis-information is easily spread and people > are not above using the guise of mathematics and science to promulgate > this intentionally or unintentionally. > > Gary Alevy See above. Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------ Search for other documents from or mentioning: egs | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Project 1947 - 5001st Composite Wing From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 17:41:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:39:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - 5001st Composite Wing Re Pinball: Wendell Stevens never mentioned Pinball when he first told me of his Alaskan activities way back in l979 when we were filming UFOs ARE Real. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 23:51:09 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 01:42:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:47:50 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >References: <2.2.32.19970105092549.006c1528@mail.globalserve.net> >Regarding the talk here about science, speculation, and faster than >light travel... >Yesterday, breezing through a magazine at a large newsstand, I skimmed a >piece about research into FTL travel at, hold your breath, NASA and the >prestigious Jet Propulsion Laboratory. [snip] >I'm at fault here for not buying the magazine, or taking notes. But this >wasn't tabloid journalism. The magazine was one I hadn't seen, on the >subject of space travel, but scientific. Names were named; scientists >were quoted. [snip] >Now that I've put my foor in my mouth, I'll try to get back to that >newstand and buy the magazine, to post details. But does anyone else >know anything about this? >Greg Sandow Greg I believe the magazine was the one I recommended the other day that everyone read. It was FINAL FRONTIER Feb. '97 issue and the article was "Mind Fields." Drew Williamson Search for other documents from or mentioning: werd | gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:35:05 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:37:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 23:51:09 -0500 (EST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) >Subject: Re: UFo UpDate: Faster Than Light Travel >I believe the magazine was the one I recommended the other day that >everyone read. It was FINAL FRONTIER Feb. '97 issue and the article was >"Mind Fields." Drew, Do you have more information about the journal itself? I've never heard of it. Jean __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Drake's Equation From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 01:25:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:36:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation Ed Steward slipped a cog when he said; >Really? I was not aware there was a record of migration or colonization >to another planet. Would you please enlighten the list? Inquiring minds >would like to know. Two words. "Mars rock" ~Pat~ Gotcha! :-D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 AUFORA - Israeli UFO research having a bad week From: AUFORA News Update <dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 00:43:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:41:29 -0500 Subject: AUFORA - Israeli UFO research having a bad week AUFORA News Update Monday, January 6th, 1997 <www.aufora.org> _________________________ NOT A GOOD WEEK FOR ISRAELI UFO RESEARCH by Barry Chamish <chamish@netmedia.net.il> Two events converged in the last week of the year threatening to send Israel UFO research back to the dark ages of the 1980s. One was a conference in Eilat organized by alleged abductee Carlos Bin Nun, the other, the green "alien" of Achihod. Bin Nun's gathering of the country's UFO mystics produced only two headlines: Uri Geller announced that he was abducted by aliens as a child and one of the speakers, given futuristic powers by the otherworldly enitities, promised the nation that a huge UFO will hover over Tel Aviv on January fifth and herald a new era. Sunday began with excitement for the more naive UFO culturists. One Debby Segal, representing the Damti family of Kibbutz Achihod, announced on Channel Two's 5 PM television news program that tomorrow the long anticipated results of tests conducted at the Technion's Biological Faculty on the "alien" discovered by Tziona Damti would be announced. The next day arrived and the wide circulation daily Yediot Ahronot published the results. While admitting that they weren't given enough material from the alien to conduct proper tests, the scientists from the Technion identified cow dung. That's right, cow manure. Another of the Damti's "UFO experts" Uriah Shai appeared on Channel One's 5 PM news program and for the first time since the event began a week before, was grilled. The announcer wanted an answer to the cow dung conclusion and why he refused to give up "two millimetres for a proper examination." By Tuesday, ten years of serious UFO research were being jeopardised. A guest at the Eilat conference, Dr. Noah Brosh was given two pages in Maariv to dismiss all ufology as a hoax. To back his claim he jumped on the cow dung found at Achihod and the UFO that won't appear over Tel Aviv on January the fifth. When it doesn't show up, another stake will be driven into the public's heart about the study of UFOs. Since 1987, a totally skeptical Israeli public has been moved towards acceptance of a profound UFO wave in their country by the responsible evidence gathering of serious ufologists. In just one week, a few hucksters have compromised all the good work. One disappointed Tel Aviv-area researcher said, "It's been a serious setback but we'll learn from the mistakes made at Achihod. However, the next serious incidents will face widespread disbelief again no matter how convincing the evidence and testimony." __________________ AUFORA News Update News, Information, Facts from the world of UFOlogy To subscribe send e-mail to: dwatanab@acs.ucalgary.ca AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ Helios Science News: http://www.helios.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Beyond Drake's Equation From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 02:40:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:40:33 -0500 Subject: Beyond Drake's Equation > Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:17:37 -0800 > From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > References: <2.2.32.19970106222506.00730fe8@mail.globalserve.net> > > Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 04:08:58 -0500 > > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > > References: <2.2.32.19970104175744.00b701d0@mail.globalserve.net> > > I think discussing the Drake equation is a waste of time but while I am > > wasting it let me say that you have misrepresented the equation to start > > with. > I agree that it is a waste of time discussing the Drake equation in a > ufological context since there is no correlation between what SETI is > all about and what some ufologists think that SETI is all about. > snipped < > If anybody feels limited by the Drake equation it is not due to the > Drake equation - but their own self-imposed strawman limitations on > their own thought processes. For anyone to imply that the Drake equation > is some manifestation of a UFO cover-up is simply preposterous. No one ever implied that the Drake equation was a manifestation of a UFO cover-up. Drake himself is another issue, he has not been open with the public or scientific community about his intelligence community connections. Greenbank wasn't funded and created by the intelligence community to fulfill Drake's childhood fantasies about searching for life among the stars or just to conduct radioastronomy for that matter. > If > people can't live with that, go out and create their own equation and > throw it on the table. But trying to argue that the Drake equation > itself has been contrived to keep the UFO community in the dark is > simply ignorance attempting to justify a belief system in search of > scapegoats. The Drake equation is a waste of time as I said to start with. However the positioning of intelligence personnel in a potential or actual communications channel is designed to be able to control information. You need to look no further than that great conspiracy theorist Dr. Carl Sagan who laid out in his "science fiction" novel CONTACT how the control of knowledge of and contact with extra-terrestrial intelligence could be achieved, and real life sometimes imitates art. Gary Alevy Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | egs |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 UpComing UK UFO Conferences From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 03:47:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:42:28 -0500 Subject: UpComing UK UFO Conferences Dear Colleagues, Slight corrections and one addition to the list posted earlier on several major conferences to be staged throughout the United Kingdom during 1997 by UFO Magazine: John Carpenter and John Anthony West are of course from the United States... A further speaker has been added to "The Terrestrial Connection" conference: Chris O'Kane (Scotland) Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 04:12:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:43:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >However, I have to say (with an apologetic nod to Graham) that the FT >article was better than the one produced in 'The Unopened Files' from the >publishers of UK 'UFO magazine'. Always ready to acknowledge an excellent piece of work and that's why I recommended interested parties to digest the 'Fortean Times' article. Colleagues should perhaps make a note of the following books which were recommended by Brazilian UFO researcher Michael Wysmierski: "RETURN TO EARTH", Aldrin, 1973, Random House "THE VOYAGES OF APOLLO", Lewis, 1974, Quadrangle "CARRYING THE FIRE", Collins, 1974, Ballentine Books "NASA MOONED AMERICA!", Rene, 1992, Rene Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 07:53:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:50:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > >If I had to guess I'd guess that we'll first figure out how > >to modulate data over FTL speeds. That would radically change > >robotic space exploration. > Strange you should say that. There is a theory that say's that > objects that are in harmony are sympathetic. This uses a > non-elastic concept for the structure of space. Heck, it may > even explain spontaneous energy. Those theories are mostly magic to me, way over my head. But I do know that the point and purpose of traveling is to get back and talk about it <grin> which means arriving at the destination as a pile of soup in a suit is counterproductive. As a sequence of breakthroughs we'll likely figure how how to send data FTL (I'm very confident about that), then equipment (I'm fairly confident about that but it involves completely different technology), and maybe _after that_ people (I'm not very confident about that). -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 07:14:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:48:17 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing > > If the symbology is as simple as you suggest then I > > absolutely guarantee that modern cryptographic analysis could decode > > it. > Would you explain further, John? I don't think I can explain further, except that the simpler the symbology the easier it is for cryptographic analysts to decipher it. > The part that stumps me is what cryptographers could compare the > symbols to. Are they letters in an alphabet? Do they stand for > concepts, somewhat as Chinese pictographs do? Are they something > scientific or mathematical, like symbolic logic or the symbols of > organic chemistry? I have no idea how those folks do what they do. I read a book on cryptographic analysis once and after the first chapter it made no sense to me at all <grin>. > Lacking that knowledge, how does a cryptographer proceed? Especially > since -- assuming for a moment that the symbols are truly alien -- we > know nothing of the alien culture or thought processes. It's not as if > we have a Rosetta stone -- something in a language we know that says > the same thing. > What would a cryptographer look for? I dunno... But they've broken every code every enemy (and others) has used since before WWII... -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:01:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:52:22 -0500 Subject: Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 04:44:14 -0500 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: UFOs and CounterIntelligence > > I think you're too quick to assume counterintelligence. Just > > because someone doesn't believe that UFOs are alien spacecraft is no > > reason to assume they are counterintelligence agents...<grin> > I can't send you to school on this but if your life or professional > experience has not made you aware of the important role of > counterintellignece in the history of science, industry, politics and > nations, etc. then you are living a fortunate, innocent life. Pearl > Harbor taught this nation a lesson it determined not to forget and > during WWII and shortly thereafter some of the best minds of this > country we brought to create intelligence organizations which would > prevent that from happening again. The unanticipated arrival on this > planet of extraterrestrial intelligence(s) is certainly within their > charter. Its certainly not been treated as a laughing matter and has > been dealt with seriously and covertly. Read the Brookings Report > through and through not just some snippet quotes. That's all fine and wonderful. Now what does it have to do with Drake being involved in counter-intelligence??? > > I've read the posted Drake material and it proves nothing. > No one can prove anything to you, you have to figure it out for > yourself. Gosh, I wonder what the possibilities are: 1) You have proof regarding your accusation against Drake but are unwilling to share it, 2) You don't have any proof regarding your accusation against Drake and are unwilling to admit it. Which is it??? > Imagine that you had to develop a contingency plan for an event such > as the contact with or arrival on this planet of a non-human > intelligence. > This is not an untenable exercise since we as humans plan to visit > elsewheres as soon as we are capable of doing so. What would you have > to do? What kind of arrival, when, where, how??? As you've described it its nothing more than a 9th-grade class project. Real contingency planning doesn't work quite like that... > > Remember these were largely military or military-related people > > solving a _military-related_ problem. > > That response obviously had some silly aspects. For instance, > > assuming that if certain respected people explained away all UFO > > sightings then UFO sightings will magically stop occurring...<grin> > I think you under-estimate the military and the intellectual > capabilities of its people. I guess that's possible <grin>. > > So, with all this coverage why don't we have a stepped-up > > disinformation campaign? > I think it is still there, instead of Menzel who was capable of > loosing his temper on televsion we have more subtle people serving as > disinformationalists. Oh... So subtle (and apparently so sneaky) that no one can find any proof??? > As the times change so has the modus operandi. That's a stunningly enlightening cliche' but does it have a functional meaning??? What _exactly_ are the "modus operandi" today??? > > I think the answer is found in the original problem. The flaw in > > the Robertson/Durant panel conclusion was in allowing the military > > to make public policy. They never have been capable of it and > > probably never will be. The military makes military policy, and > > they're generally pretty good at that, but that's all. The silly > > aspect, that UFO sightings would disappear if previous UFO sightings > > were explained away, is exactly the type of common sense > > non-military idea that military people solving a military problem > > are incapable of figuring out. > I think you are wrong, these policies were made by the intelligence > community and this is not truly synonymous with the military (Army, > Air Force, Marines and Navy). > The intelligence community involves and considers many other aspects > of public policy which are non-military, e.g. social, political, > economic and even religious. So, you're saying it was the intelligence community that thought future UFO sightings would disappear if they debunked the current sightings <grin>??? But, of course, the _military_ would never have come up with such a silly idea... We seem to be getting far from the original point. You accussed Drake of being an intelligence asset. Please define "intelligence asset" and provide proof of your accusation (or honorably admit that you don't have any proof). -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:45:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:55:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 97 11:34:42 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >There has been a lot of work based on a lack of a definition of a > >phenomenon. > Oh, that's an easy one. Just lean on John Archibald Wheeler who > said; "No phenomena is a phenomena unless it's an observed > phenomena" > He also said; "The universe exists "out there" independent of > acts of registration, but the universe does not exist out there > independent of acts of registration." > With that in mind, one can only conclude that no conclusions > are possible. So, we can all go back to playing video games!? Whoopie!! I've made it to Level 13 of Doom III: The Plutonia Experiment, and all of this silly UFO research is taking a lot of time away from my goal to get to Level 32 <GRIN>. > Even without any equation to relate possibilities, even > the most humble of minds can gaze into the heavens and > register this phenomena. I think most have. Ok, fine, but back to the problem at hand. I think Jan's point in mentioning the work methodology of the Condon investigator's was to show that _before_ you start doing work you need an idea of the proper methodology and before _that_ you need some structure and definition within which the whole enterprise functions. For example, proctologists, by and large, don't study the viscosity of combustion engine oil additives. In fact, if you ask proctologists they know exactly what they study. If you ask the folks who study the viscosity of engine oil additives they'll be able to back up and tell you the larger definition of their field. In ufology (Jan and others suggest and I agree) there isn't much of a definition, if any at all. What is ufology, what does ufology study? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:17:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:53:43 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > Date: 06 Jan 97 14:49:40 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing > As I understand it, a cryptogram is a message in which other > characters are substituted for letters in a known alphabet, producing > a message in a known language. Letters, numbers, letters and numbers, single characters, single and multiple characters; that may decode as words that may actually mean other words, etc. > The writing which Budd [Hopkins] has, and which he has shown me, looks > more like a real alphabet or possibly a syllabary. Since Budd asked > me to keep details confidential for research reasons, I will not > discuss the "letters" and/or "symbols" used, but they look like no > letters and/or symbols I have seen in any modern or ancient > "alphabet". I hope we weren't sniff-testing the alien handwriting...<grin> > I'm not sure just what [John Powell] thinks a cryptographer would > accomplish by looking at these. I [John Powell] am not sure either <grin>. But I don't think its a complete waste of time. At a minimum a cryptographic analyst _might_ be able to determine if there is some type of underlying syntax associated with the symbology, maybe 'words' that repeat, maybe 'words' that are closely associated wth other 'words' in the sequence, maybe certain 'words' that never associate with other 'words,' etc. In other _words_ [pun intended], why would you want to discourage such a research activity??? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 10:06:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:56:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 16:01:56 -0400 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > The better the quality [of the UFO sighting] the more likely to be an > UNKNOWN.. precisely what one would expect if the UNKNOWNS were real > and not misidentified knowns. [JP] That's a very important item. It helps to have this and other items borne out in a verifiable studies but these items are also more or less common sense. I think "Insufficient Information" can easily be used to negative purposes and I'm not sure this should be a valid category. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 07:37:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:49:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > > SETI listens _not_ for the one part of one signal that may be an > > alien version of Starsky & Hutch, but instead listens for the > > _whole_ signal and requires it to be the _SAME_ signal from the > > _SAME_ place. > John's question, of course, is why we'd think aliens would be likely > to send such a signal. Our own TV broadcasts, he notes -- along with > other electronic debris wafting outward from our great green earth -- > isn't nearly as organized as that. > Actually, John, the SETI crowd believes that aliens are sending > coherent signals intentionally, in order to catch our attention. (And, > of course, the attention of other beings.) It's worth reading the SETI > literature, if only to see how large and detailed an edifice can be > built on pure speculation. I've read some SETI literature...<grin> Do we send out a coherent signal strong enough to identify itself above all the background clatter? (No, we don't.) So, what is their assumption based on, wishful thinking. > SETI scientists have satisfied themselves that interstellar travel is > impossible. Yet, they believe, any intelligent race knows it's not > alone. Races long to reach out. How else to do that, but with radio? > (A curious assumption, that races a billion years ahead of us would > still use radio, but let it pass.) That assumption (using radio), within an assumption (that they are a billion years ahead of us) to too quirky for me. Look what we've accomplished in just 100 years, we were practically technological droolers just 100 years ago. We have no idea what we'll accomplish in just the next 100 years, let alone the next 1,000. Its also silly to assume that they'd be reaching out, do we? The bottom line is that the methods SETI uses could not be used to detect _us_ by someone else. Since we don't know anything about anybody else being out there we should at least use methods that would work on us. > The next question would be what kind of signal they'd broadcast. SETI > scientists have ideas on that, too -- on the frequency that alien > races would use, and on what the signal would look like. So they don't > look for a needle in a haystack; they've actually formed definite > ideas of what they're looking for. I know, common elements in the universe, etc. > As I say, it makes for fascinating reading, even if it makes me > wonder, sometimes, whether the SETI folks ever examine their > assumptions with any kind of critical eye. It was and largely still is a great publicity vehicle. What they should be doing is collecting and cataloging radio signatures of known objects. When they can't find an object for a given radio signature they should then look closer. But all of that requires real work, real funding, real staffing, real computer resources, etc. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 10:14:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:57:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 23:51:09 -0500 (EST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) > Subject: Re: UFo UpDate: Faster Than Light Travel > >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 10:47:50 -0500 > >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > >References: <2.2.32.19970105092549.006c1528@mail.globalserve.net> > > >Regarding the talk here about science, speculation, and faster than > >light travel... Also check out Scientific American 8/93 and 7/96. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) Search for other documents from or mentioning: sjpowell | werd |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:47:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:47:21 -0500 Subject: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? From: missionquest@seanet.com To: Multiple recipients of list (emf-l@mail.llion.org) Subject: Electrically Induced Hallucinations Date: den 6 januari 1997 23:09 The Discovery channel aired a show probing possible explanations of "alien abductions," over one million Americans claim to have been abducted. An interview of over fifty abducties found that each had some sort of electrical accident, then strange things began to occur, abductions being only the latest. They all exhibited signs of electrical sensitivity. A woman in the UK was interviewed who had been reporting strange occurrences including alien abduction. An electrical accident and her electrical sensitivity was noted, as well as her neighborhood's electrical transformer station, radio and cell towers. A neurobiologist was shown researching the influence of electromagnetic fields on the brain. Using a helmet than can generate specific fields, patterns and intensities he noted that people reported specific experiences with particular fields such as; feeling the presence of a person while alone in a room, traveling through tunnels, white light, being suspended in mid air, all commonly reported in abduction cases. All the people knew they were being tested and ascribed the test to account for their experiences, but he noted that if a person has such experiences at home they will interpret it differently than in a lab and will search for its meaning from their cultural filters. He also noted that the appearance of aliens distinctly changes from country to country, suggesting a cultural influence to how we interpret these bioelecetrical disturbances. I'm interested in following this lead, might you recommend any reports? Thanks in advance. Sincerely, Corl Riblt missionquest@seanet.com ********************************************************** Beta test an innovative interactive self help book. Contact Corl Riblet at missionquest@seanet.com **********************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Drake's Equation From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 14:43:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:49:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation Bob Shell wrote: >Date: 06 Jan 97 15:54:10 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > What about the idea that Earth was colonized by ETs millennia ago. We see UFOs > so often because they come from here and are no longer extraterrestrial. We see > them so seldom because they don't want to be seen. A perfectly valid speculation, and yet another possibility that Sagan didn't consider when he "proved" that UFOs couldn't be visiting us in even a fraction of the numbers required to generate existing UFO reports. It's easy to come up with possibilities like this...which I'm not saying as a criticism of you, Bob! I'm saying it as a criticism of Sagan, who was monumentally unimaginative (not to say a little smug) when he came up with his quasi-scientific proof. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Drake's Equation From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 13:53:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:48:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 01:25:36 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Ed Steward slipped a cog when he said; > >Really? I was not aware there was a record of migration or colonization > >to another planet. Would you please enlighten the list? Inquiring minds > >would like to know. > Two words. "Mars rock" > ~Pat~ > Gotcha! :-D Thanks Pat, We have also left a variety of instrumentation and machines on other planetary bodies, e.g. moon, Venus, Mars, etc. Besides we have long had it within our technical capabilities to send animals to other planetary bodies but haven't either for lack of purpose or political reasons. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: 'Backlash' From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:17:52 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:50:25 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' > Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:44:34 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' > Michael Malone writes: > > it is absolutely unthinkable and a black mark on those scientifically and > > ethically interested in UFOs that there are self-claimed abduction > > researchers (Yes, Greg, I mean that in a negative sense) who are using > > their knowledge of psychology and therapy, either hypno-thearpy or > > otherwise, to gain knowledge about an alleged experience, and then will > > report on that alleged experience without attempting to verify the > > experience physically. > > In other fields of psycology, this is resulting in license revocation. > > Most specifically, in cases of child abuse that never occured, yet the > > therapist assured both the police and the courts that it did. And in at > > least one case, licenses were removed from therapists who misused their > > position in relation to an alien abduction case. > > Today, respected therapists work with other agencies when a psycological > > trauma is discovered. These auxillary agencies help identify the real > > worlds, physical source of the problem, while the therapist helps with the > > psycological trauma that is the result. Such common sense approaches are > > absent in UFOlogy today. > No problem with your negative sense, Mike. Didn't think there would be, just clarifing that it was what I intended. > Who would those auxillary agencies be, in the case of supposed > abductions? I would like to say that the auxillary agencies would be a group such as MUFON, but I think most people on this list knows how I feel about them. Ideally, it would be a group of researchers willing and able to perform the associated physical research and verification. Depending on the needs of the patient (Remember when we were talking about what to call abductees? I think the therapist should ALWAYS remember that they are patients first.) it might be advisable for a private investigator to be hired. While many can't afford this solution, there are a number of research groups who want verification of alien abduction who should be willing to help with the physical verification. In the case of implants, alien pregnancies, and the like, the obvious agency is a doctor. I've run into several female "abductees" who claim to have given birth to alien fetuses onboard alien craft, but have never been to a doctor to have those pregnancies verified. All these women were under the care of an psycologically based alien researcher, and the researcher never suggested the medical verification. All to often I have seen the hypno-therapist who is ill trained to handle the kind of psycological trauma that a pateint is enduring prolong the pain of a patient without ever pointing the patient to a more suitable therapist. The first goal of any "abduction researcher" should be the mental health of the patient. > Put yourself in the position of, say, Budd Hopkins, when he first ran > across alleged abduction cases. What he did, at the time -- and this was > around 20 years ago -- was to enlist the help of psychotherapists he'd > known through his work as an artist. They were the ones who intitially > talked to the abduction experiencers, and carried out any hypnosis. That was a smart move. But what did he do next? Has he hired or attempted to recruit experts in physical verification? I know there was some talk at one time by Derral Sims of bringing in forensic teams into abduction sites immediatly following an abduction, has that been done? If it is, it is the exception and not the rule. > What else should he have done? What agencies should he have approached? > I'm not throwing this in your face as a challenge. I'm genuinely > curious. One of the first concerns that he should have had, IMHO, is that there was a possibility of an abduction that was real, but involved much more terrestrial perpetrators. Did he contact the police to see if there was an ongoing abduction/rape case? What about paranormal investigators who would be willing to perform the physical verification? The first step was the bringing on board of highly trained individuals to deal with the mental trauma. But that's all mental. Physical verification, either through hired or volunteer individuals, is a must. There is an important "IF" that I'v meant to imply, that perhaps I haven't made clear. That "IF" is the assumption that: 1) The patient is stable mentally 2) The patient wants more information 3) The patient or the therapist intends to pronounce the experience as real. If the patient simply want healing for the psycological trauma, then it is no business of the therapist or abduction researcher to do anything more than get the patient the best mental health care possible. That's it. Bring in the shrinks, pile on the therapy, but leave everything else out of it. It becomes a case of the human mind, and not a case of abduction by aliens. Far to often I see therapist who forget that they are there to help the patient deal with their problems instead of putting forth their own agenda. > A related question. Suppose you ran into an abduction experiencer. > Suppose you became involved in his or her situation. What agency in your > own area would you want to involve? First, lets assume that I've come across the experiencer, and they haven't seen anyone yet. I'm the first person they have confided in. I would first refer them to a psycologist. The very first thing that must be accomplished with any experiencer is a standard battery of test to determine if there is an organic problem. This should be the primary goal of anyone offering therapy to someone with the kind of mental trauma typically attributed to alien abduction experiencers. Let's rule out manic-drepressive, bi-polar, and other common mental illnesses before we assume anything else. If there is an organic problem, lets immediatly start treatment on that problem. Does prosac or another anti-depressant stop the abductions? Does lithium? Does extensive counseling? Relaxation therapy? Anxiaty therapy? Let's make sure that we aren't dealing with false memory syndrom akin to the satanic abuse cases. After all, our primary concern at this point is the health and well-being of the patient. if there is no organic problem, or an organic problem that has been corrected and the abductions continue, then we need to begin looking at the case in a new light, more akin to the current level that new cases are given today. Lets start looking into the details of the abduction, the feelings during the abduction, the abscribed motivation of the aliens. But don't stop there. Let's look at the patient's life and see how the abduction fits into the whole patient, not just the abduction experiencer. Let's look at what else the abduction might represent. Then, if we have a patient who is either no longer, or has never, exhibited any severe trauma, who is currently stable, and cannot explain the abduction experience any any other terms, it's time to start the physical investigation. Turn to local forensic groups, here in Huntsville there is a forensic science explorer post. Try interesting a private investigator, or learn basic monitoring techniques yourself. Apply a systematic, documented method to verify that the abduction is occuring, using any and all means you can obtain. After all, how many more "stories" do we really need? How many more "interpretations" can we use? Isn't it time we started the physical aspect of this investigation. Michael Malone KF4MYX
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:12:05 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:53:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 16:01:56 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Let us not forget that a quality evaluation was done by Battelle Memorial >Institute in Project Blue Book Special Report 14 for more than 2000 cases. The >better the quality the more likely to be an UNKNOWN.. precisely what one would >expect if the UNKNOWNS were real and not misidentified knowns. This is a very important point, because it falsifies the misidentification hypothesis. That is, by misidentification hypothesis, I refer to the skeptical position, or the null hypothesis (so to speak), which is that UFOs are simply a potpourri of misidentified prosaic phenomenon. The misidentification hypothesis clearly predicts that lousy observers are more likely to be unsolvable, i.e., "unknown". Yet this prediction fails completely, since there is direct relationship between observer skill and solvability. And we also see that these high-quality reports, which are more likely to be "unknowns" don't suffer from lack of information, as you point out -- rather, the nature of the UFO can be characterized by the data. This is a critical point, because it logically decimates the misidentification hypothesis. I've yet to hear a skeptical counterpoint on this falsification of the misidentification hypothesis. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:08:52 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:55:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:35:05 +0100 (MET) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Faster Than Light Travel >>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 23:51:09 -0500 (EST) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) >>Subject: Re: UFo UpDate: Faster Than Light Travel >>I believe the magazine was the one I recommended the other day that >>everyone read. It was FINAL FRONTIER Feb. '97 issue and the article was >>"Mind Fields." > Drew, > Do you have more information about the journal itself? I've never > heard of it. > Jean Jean It's published by ATG Media Inc, a subsidiary of American Technologies Group, Inc. Their web site is: http//:www.ateg.com/ Don't know what else to tell you except that I've seen it at the newstands before. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:20:46 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:56:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >Date: 06 Jan 97 14:49:47 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Moon 'Photos'? [snip]. >I know it sounds looney, but this guy has done his homework and I find it hard >to argue with his statements. Anyone without a basic photographic and physics knowledge would be hard-pressed to argue. I am presently writing a critique of his assertions, however there are so many errors in Mr. Percy's "homework" that it will probably take a couple of weeks to respond to them all.. With respect to Mr. Percy's "homework,"... the only homework he seems to have done is on the gullibility of the general populace. >Before laughing this off, LOOK at the photos. >Bob Shell I looked, I laughed. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 The Literary Genius of Mr Mantle From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Nov 96 23:34:52 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:54:20 -0500 Subject: The Literary Genius of Mr Mantle from Sharon and Tracey, Harlow, Essex WITHOUT COMPREHENSION review of WITHOUT CONSENT A Comprehensive Survey of Missing-Time and Abduction Phenomena in the UK Carl Nagaitis and Philip Mantle Ringpull Press L16.99 I am glad I am not a fir tree. Not merely because I should never have known the extraordinary pleasure of those bottles of '59 Richebourg that I helped appreciate to the last potable drop on Elfride's 21st birthday that year in Marienbad (or was it Chard?), but because one would always run the risk of being chopped down and turned into a book like this. There are those among us who suspect that the 'abduction phenomenon' is some what tainted by hoaxing. But this book is a kind of hoax. In the sense, that is, that it is not the 'comprehensive survey' of abductions and missing time its subtitle proclaims, and to the extent that the authors sometimes try to present as abductions experiences that would not normally be worth listening to on the third day snowbound in a Connemara pub. Oh, and it's worse than that, by the way. It is phenomenally badly written. And it even manages to publish at least one photograph upside down and another (though I only suspect this) possibly sideways as well. The blurb would have you believe otherwise. Well, it would: it's meant to make the innocent feel glad to see the back of their money. But a blurb's come-on is as good a set of claims as any by which to judge such a book. 'Case histories have been thoroughly researched,' we are assured, 'witnesses interviewed and hypnotically regressed, and all the current theories to explain abduction phenomena gathered together into one comprehensive volume. The result is an extraordinary catalogue of the inexplicable, complete with photographs never before published.' PICTURE OF INNOCENCE When you have seen as many UFO photographs and declined to publish them as I have, you take a gander at those first, in a new book. And, yes, here are some we haven't seen before - mug shots of a few characters whose clones you could see in any rush hour in Scunthorpe. I suppose these are meant to reassure us that some of the characters whose stories are here are also real, and walk on two legs; certainly one or two do have nice smiles. The pictures of UFOs include that dreadful piece of post-Adamski hokum by Stephen Darbishire, discernible as a fake from 200 yards (and a damned bad fake at that, which only an idiot would take seriously - writs welcome) and that has been doing the rounds for 40 years. But when, by the way, did this lame schoolboy prank ever have anything to do with an abduction claim? There is the Jeff Greenhaw 'tinfoil man' (doing the rounds for only half the time). Greenhaw of course never claimed to have been abducted, and the authors call him 'Greenshaw' twice in one short caption. The 1979 Motunau picture from New Zealand is likewise treated to a misspelling, is undated, and is the one that's printed upside down. No details of the case are given, but I can reveal that there wasn't an abduction involved. This was one of those odd one-off shots, when the witnesses saw nothing in the sky at the time. Given the startling likeness of the 'UFO' to a lens flare, you can safely believe them. If you want a really cheap thrill you can peruse a photograph of George and Amanda Phillips' BUFORA sighting account form. They weren't abducted either, though. The only pictures of interest are an original and four computer-enhanced derivatives taken in Voronezh, Russia, in 1989, but there is no indication of what the digitized images might tell us (even though they come from the usually voluble Ground Saucer Watch) about the reality or other wise of the UFO depicted. To me, the original looks as phoney as hell, even without a computer scan. Yes, the captions are a trifle uninformative. Then you try to read the text. You have to put up with this sort of thing: 'Since 1947 when flying saucer entered the English language, a staggering FORTY MILLION UFO sightings have been logged. More than thirty UFO crash landings have been reported and abduction reports run into an astonishing TENS OF THOUSANDS.' The questions begged by this kind of junk are hardly worth repeating, and (I'm not making this up) it sinks to an even lower level within five lines: 'In fact one observer calculated that some statistics suggest [did you get that?] that as many as ONE IN TEN Americans have had some sort of encounter with a UFO and a significant minority of those claim abduction experiences.' If you can unclog the meaning from the stewed knitting of the prose, you suspect that our authors are talking about the infamous Roper Poll of 1991. That is worth taking on. ASTRONOMICAL NUMBERS? If they are referring to the Roper Poll, they are wrong. That found that 6 per cent of adults in the continental USA had seen a UFO once, and that 1 per cent (a statistically negligible figure, given the sample) had seen one twice. If you believe that answering Yes to five particular questions asked by the pollsters really does indicate the possibility of an abduction, the sample of 5947 produced fully 18 people (0.03 per cent) who may have been abducted and not known it. Which is a pity, because that kind of figure is also statistically useless in a survey with a margin of error of ? 1.4 per cent. Those who commissioned the survey conveniently decided that a 'Yes' answer to only four of these questions indicated an abduction, and then were rather embarrassed to discover that 2 per cent of the sample, or 3.7 million Americans, had by their criteria possibly been abducted. I am not alone among persons experienced in analysing this kind of research in thinking that their criteria are in any case hopelessly inadequate, and that the research was incompetently designed for its purpose. The conclusions suffer from a fundamental flaw in logic that render them meaningless as an 'abductee indicator', although item by item the poll reveals some interesting data. Nagaitis and Mantle don't tell you any of these things. Is that because they didn't put the Roper findings to a research expert, or didn't know how to analyse the figures themselves - or is it because it didn't suit them to question the poll? Since they exaggerate the figures wildly, one wonders if they've actually read the data. The trouble with writing in a tabloid dialect is that it corrupts your thinking. How else can one explain the sentence that starts 'Twenty three year old Rohan Hinton was just seventeen when...' or this sample of the book's endemic near-English: 'Yet abductions, if true, are far more serious than lights in the sky. Many of these people are damaged psychologically if not physically. And it remains to be seen whether the reasons behind these events are sinister or otherwise.' What? This almost matches my all-time favourite piece of ufologists' language-mangling, whose author my two regular readers will recognize at once: 'Policemen and others in a 24-hour situation...' A style like this is intrinsically trivializing and therefore dangerous, because its emotional and intellectual vocabulary is so pitifully circumscribed - not to say stunted. Claims of abductions by aliens are so outlandish and unlikely that they deserve scrupulous, thoughtful consideration. And that depends on articulacy as well as knowledge and wherewithal. There is a sobering reality in the dictum that you do not know what you mean unless (not until!) you can say what you mean. Real thought is impossible in the language spoken by this book and, worse, this is a language that presumes - and ultimately depends on - an incapacity for conscientious thought in the reader. By the end one feels faintly sullied, moderately insulted, and distinctly exhausted. One is also intrigued to find a lot of blank pages where an index ought to have been. THEORY AND PRACTICE The claim that here 'all the current theories to explain abduction phenomena' are 'gathered together' is, not to put too fine a point on it, c[lapt]rap. There is a decent summary of Ed Bullard's now rather geriatric assessment of abductions-as-folklore, but no attempt to get to grips with his assumptions about folklore (which plenty of folklorists would question), the reliability of his data, or the nature of his conclusions. They show themselves very up-to-date by quoting Albert Budden at length, but then demonstrate their ignorance of the latest work by Michael Persinger or the esteemed Paul Devereux by squeak ing: 'Even if [Budden's] theories prove correct... why do so many people see such similar things?' And you will look in vain for any mention of 'earthlights' in the book, or for a summary, let alone a reasoned critique, of Devereux's more elaborate speculations on abductions. That is really not good enough. Nor is there any account of the insights provided over many years by what I'd say is the most persuasive and articulate group of ufologists anywhere, the contributors to the British magazine (this in a book about the UK!) Magonia, notably John Rimmer, Martin Kottmeyer and Peter Rogerson. Rimmer's intimations of the parallels between certain kinds of religious experience and abduction lore, and Rogerson's musings on the imagery and symbolism of the abduction scenario, are provocative and wise. But then they're not amenable to being regurgitated in the pre-chewed idiom that our authors have adopted. The point can be demonstrated. The nearest Nagaitis and Mantle can bring them selves to considering the psychosocial aspects of ufology is to dismiss the 'fantasy-prone personality' hypothesis with: 'Well, like most psychological explanations for abduction phenomenon [sic], you can read into it what you will.' If you wanted to see intellectual dishonesty on parade with drums beating, banners flying, and a weasel for a mascot, it would be hard to improve on that sentence. And I say that as one who is not convinced by the hypothesis in question. And then there are the 'thoroughly researched' case accounts. Some of these really do make the heart bleed for the fir trees, as our intrepid chroniclers seem to be incapable of picking apart the daftest statements made by 'witnesses' even before a UFO has peeped over the horizon. HIS FINEST HOUR Take poor old Albert Lancashire, who was supposedly guarding a radar station at Newbiggin-on-Sea, Northumberland, in September 1942. According to him, or our gullible authors, he performed this duty with loaded rifle and bayonet fixed so that he could fend off an attack by the Luftwaffe (honestly, that's what it says here), but standing orders were not to fire at enemy aircraft 'or you will only give away the position of the base.' Apart from the cracked logic, the idea that Fritz in the sky above would even notice a few rounds from a .303 SMLE gives rare pleasure. This flawless reasoning is stoutly maintained:'Firing at night would be worse, he thought. Gerry pilots would soon spot them and that would be the end of the installation.' Oh, and - drat! - you'd doubtless miss the buggers too, sashay ing by in the dark like that as they did at 250mph. It doesn't seem to occur to Nagaitis and Mantle that this collation of doziness might cast a few doubts on the rest of Lancashire's tale. As it is, his 'evidence' for an abduction amounts to a few memories of dreams following a UFO sighting. If you discount his devouring 'every piece of UFO literature he could get hold of' in the years between his experience and his interview by ufologists, that is. Pity, really, about the 'thorough' research in this book. Did the authors even bother to find out if there actually was a radar station at Newbiggin in 1942? Other cases - most others - in the book are retailed with a similar, habitual failure to consider the 'evidence' with any rigour - in Lancashire's case the authors don't even get to face value. In another case, which they call a 'classic', they take the 'total bag of nerves' the witness becomes every time his abduction is mentioned as a sure sign of his sincerity. This happens years after the alleged event, when the witness has put his experience firmly behind him - 'so firmly that he refuses to discuss the inci dent under any circumstances' (except he does, or else how do they know he turns into said bag?). I wonder why he gets so twitchy? It never crosses their minds that he might be embarrassed and afraid of being caught out telling an almighty great porky for the 99th time. Whether or not there is an abduction phenomenon, most of the evidence for it presented here is worthless. Basic information like key times and places within the accounts is often missing. Non-sequiturs, another product of the tabloid mentality that infests this book, abound. A UFO that blots out stars in one paragraph is glowing in the next. There are vacuous rhetorical questions like: 'Why would a Royal Navy commander concoct such a story?' Why not? is the answer. Navy officers must need a giggle pretty badly on occasion. It all gets a bit dubious, though, as at one point they refer to him as a major. Perhaps in real life he was neither. Did the authors check? There is a constant insistence on the credibility of 'witnesses' and their lack of motive for hoaxing: the anxious ufologist's raddled old mantra. No question, some of these good folk are as sincere as larksong. The naive prose makes it easy enough to tell when eager investigators have steered their victims in the desired direction. Other 'witnesses' have created their own cocoon of belief. But there is no evidence anywhere in these pages that the investigators have made any determined effort to check the characters and backgrounds of the claimants, or (when 'witnesses' are not being contaminated by the investigators themselves) have even thought about possible impulses for lying, self-delusion, attention-seeking, and so on and on. The results read less like an 'extraordinary catalogue of the inexplicable' than a tidal wave of gullibility. Gestures toward common sense like 'Is she an over-enthusiastic sky-watcher with a well-developed imagination?' become rhetorical weasels, emptied of any force by the implacably agitated tone of the writing and the swift refusal to answer such potentially revealing questions. YOU FEEL VERY SLEEPY You do, however, get an occasional gem. There is an hilarious insight into the utter uselessness of material derived from hypnotic regression: Investigator: Where are they from? Witness: Distant galaxy. Investigator: Where do they live? Witness: Zircon, something like that. Investigator: Will they show themselves? Witness: They say they want to be like a friend.... Investigator: Are you important to them? Witness: Yes, yes, yes. Oh yes. Investigator: Because you are a woman? Witness: It helps. Investigator: Why? Witness: We can communicate better. Of course hypnotists don't ask leading questions. Just look at the evidence. No way are abduction 'claimants turned on by the notion of being plucked from the teeming mass for special attention by aliens. Why, all they get is ridicule - except, that is, from famous persons like award-winning artist and best-selling author Budd Hopkins, or Herr Professor Doktor David Jacobs, and persons unknown with letters after their name that spell something like BUFORA - but even the BUFORA boys and girls will do, they publish magazines, and they do keep coming round with more questions, and their friends come too after a while. A bit later the witness quoted here started relaying messages from Zeus, just to liven things up. Our authors show no self-consciousness at their inability to fall about with squeals of girlish laughter at this waggish drivel. Instead they solemnly inform us that she said she hadn't read Erich von Danishbaken, as if they really and truly believe that that old lag were the sole source of information about a god called Zeus. 'The quality of the witness', they intone, po-faced as a pig in a charcuterie, makes the case 'worthy of serious consideration'. Truly, one does know the face of despair on occasion. SAVE TREES All this is very sad, and not only for conifers. There is both a gap in the market and a gap in the literature (more to the point) that deserves to be filled with a book that details missing-time and abduction experiences in the UK, puts them in a global context, and explores the consequences. It might do no more than summarize the state of the evidence and survey the current hypotheses: Jenny Randles used to do this kind of thing almost bearably before she began churning out terminally fence-sitting pop sicles such as her recent title on crash retrievals, and Janet and Colin Bord (in "Life Beyond Planet Earth?" for instance) do it brilliantly. Better, it would try to get to grips with the 'evidence' and the speculations, throw the nonsense out along with the ETH and the dimension-hopping baggage, and try to drag some sense out of what remained. For surely there is a sense there, just as there is in dreams of waltzing giraffes and in the domestic habits of serial killers. There are real questions to be asked and answered about the roles of folklore, of dreaming, of neural pathways, of altered states of consciousness, of electromagnetism, of self-image and of social conditions and of a dozen other factors in genuine (by which I mean hoax- and hypnosis-free) abduction experiences. There are as many more about what triggers those experiences and makes them so consistent from one person to another and, in some cases, produces apparent physical effects in the victims. The literalist abduction gang, the Hopkinses and Jacobses and Macks and now the Nagaitis-Mantle axis, seem to be incapable of hearing questions like these, let alone conceiving or addressing them. Given what they adduce as evidence for their case, however, that should hardly come as a great surprise. What does come as something of a revelation is the poverty of the material in Britain. Nagaitis and Mantle provide details of 25 claimed cases. Of these, perhaps half a dozen could be considered genuinely strange, if one assumes that the victims are telling the truth and that their recall has not been contaminated by persuasive investigators and incompetent hypnotists. So much for those vaunted TENS OF THOUSANDS of abduction reports. While the true scale of the 'unexplained' portion of abduction reports may be revealed here, it isn't the important point. The next step ought to have been to see what these witnesses and their accounts have in common. And after that, to see what links there may be with the Albert Lancashires and Rohan Hintons and David Thomases - the ones, in short, that you can't trust, but whose beliefs and circumstances may illuminate all sorts of aspects of the cases you've some respect for. And then you can get stuck into the theories, the hypotheses, and the speculations. I have a sinking feeling that such a book will never be written. Who has the time and the resources to spend on a project like that? What publisher would front the kind of money you'd need to research and write a book that was almost guaranteed not to titillate? No matter. Nagaitis and Mantle could have done the subject some justice in the space they had, and they've blown it, comprehensively. Their book adds nothing to the sum of human knowledge; and it certainly isn't fair to trees. PS: Could someone please remind me which comic strip/TV series/sci-fi book/movie features a place called Zircon? It's not in Donald Menzel's Field Guide to Stars and Planets - but then he was such a *terrible* skeptic about UFOs. an edited version of this review appeared in "The Ley Hunter" Mix to: A LITTLE LATER... It is a matter of record that shortly after issuing Mr Mantle's effusions, Ringpull Press, the British publisher, went comprehensively and irretrievably bust. One wonders if this is a mysterious coincidence of profoundly Fortean interest, or a more complex issue of cause and effect.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 07 Jan 97 19:32:22 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:57:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >From: rfsignal@sprynet.com >Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:57:03 -0800 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Cathy Wrote; >I happened to have watched the original version of the Lunar Landing as it >happened. I was amazed to see the astronauts walking on the Moon as they did. >While I watched them, I began to realize the details I had expected to see, >dust >clouds, evidences of lack of gravity, colour of the visible light, size of the >Earth as seen in the Moon's sky, the fantastic view of stars that should have >been visible even in daylight because of lack of atmosphere and a host of other >things; None of it was there in that first showing of the Moon Walk of the >Astronauts. I was immediately crying "fake" at that supposedly historic moment. Dust clouds; close packing of the regolith due to the lack of gas bubbles (separating the constituent particles) means that dust tends to act more like sand. Lack of Gravity; The moon has around 1/6 the gravity of Earth, and wearing one of those suits tends to make you feel a little heavier than on Earth. Of course, without the benefit of joints. Colour of visible light; Not following you. The size of the Earth in the moon's sky; lost you again. The fantastic view of stars; Unfortunately lost in the contrast of the film, more evident in the video and film footage. Kind of like walking out of a bright room and looking up at the night sky. James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 20:55:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:57:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs Re: >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >> A reasonable next step is to identify a list of "alternative >> positions" to consider. Rupert Sheldrake's theory of morphic resonance >> would be another reasonable candidate high on my own list. >Can you briefly state that theory and how it can be tested? >Thanks, take care. >John. Not an easy task to state it briefly and how it can be tested. But give me a few days during this next weekend and I'll do just that. Furthermore, if morphic resonance has any substance at all, I may try to "stage" a demonstration ... Sheldrake provides a framework for such experimentation in his book _Seven_Experiments_that_Could_Change the World_. Regards, Ernie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 CSETI Position Paper From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:12:25 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:51:35 -0500 Subject: CSETI Position Paper Has anyone subscribing to the UpDates list who is involved in the abduction phenomenon taken a look at the CSETI position paper on UFO abductions? Rather disturbing. It is on the web at http://www.cseti.com/sgabduct.htm It would be interesting to see comments on this paper by any subscribing abductees. -Brian Cuthbertson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: 'Discovered' By Shramek From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 20:43:05 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 02:00:43 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Discovered' By Shramek Well folks, looks like one of our number has elected to get vocal. Shall we have the nerve to do likewise? ~Pat~ === Begin include === >Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 21:27:49 >To: president@whitehouse.gov >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Hale-Bopp "companion" > >Dear Mr. President, > >When do you plan on informing the Nation regarding the "companion" >accompanying Comet 1995/01 (Hale-Bopp) ? The "companion" >has it's own orbital path, has no mass and has definately been spotted >from observatories all over the planet. When the astronomical scientific >community attempted to debunk amateur astronomer Chuck Shramek, >it only succeeded in backfiring in their red faces and making huge >jackasses out of themselves. The companion is no mere "star"..it >appears to be an object, possibly hollow and most likely here for a definite >reason. > >NASA can no longer hide behind excuses as to why it can't retask >WFPC because the comet is "too bright" (that's lame even to your >basic 6th grader) or that imaging of this comet is held to a supposed >proprietary basis for X amount of months before being released to >the general public on the Internet. We the People own those pictures, >*not* the NSA, the DIA, the BMDO or the Pentagon. > >If there is anything unusual about this comet that will effect the people >in the United States or the rest of the world, I implore you to let us >know now so that people can take steps to prepare for any meterological >or geological changes it might cause in the next few months. > >Don Allen >dona@totcon.com >
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:39:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:59:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:14:30 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >> From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >> > Y'know, there are scientists and then there are >> > scientists/politicians. Science is never right or wrong, its just a >> > constant search to _know_ what there is to know and how it works. >> > That's _real_ science. The rest is just science politics. >> I had an e-mail exchange with Paul Davies... >> Anyhow, I asked Davies why the SETI types seemed so certain of their >> highly speculative conclusions. He answered that they exaggerated >> their certainty in order to get funding. >> Politics...it's absolutly everywhere. >I added this sentence to make this message more than a one-line reply: >HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! >-- >Thanks, take care. >John. - - - - - - - - JC: John, My apologies for missing the joke. What is so funny? Sincerely, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:11:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:58:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 13:58:43 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >> From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > >> JC: Sorry for this interjection again, but: A problem existing in >> Ufology today is that skeptics, because they have not researched deep >> enough, often quote statistics that skew historical fact. Example, the >> following quote: > JC: Hi John, again regarding your statement: >> >........ There are tens and tens of >> >thousands of UFO sightings reported over the last 50 or so years and >> >that is our raw uninvestigated data population. That is also the >> >most useless number in all of ufology. Of the uninvestigated total >> >we know that easily from 80% (being very generous) to 95% are IFOs >> >(and some, a small percentage) are hoaxes. We know statistically >> >that 80% to 95% will be retired as IFOs....... > >> REBUTTAL: > >> JC: In the past, most of the statistics used to retire UFOs as IFOs >> were provided by the Air Force. > >We also have APRO and NICAP data from the same time period. We also >have other data sources since then. JC: Yes, that is correct. However, I don't think most of the skeptics were looking very closely at that material and taking it seriously for quite some time. I believe many skeptics are not tuned into it even today, but some are beginning to realize it is valid data to incorporate into their assessment. >If you prefer 70% to 95%, instead of my saying "80% to 95%," that's fine >with me, I don't think the difference is significant with respect to the >three points I was trying to make: JC: John, 10% is 10%. To those people who have looked at a UFO fairly closely for 3 minutes or more back in the 1960's or '70's (or whenever), found what they saw to be virtually completely silent, yet still up in the air and performing maneuvers very un-airplane, un-helicopter, un-kite like, un-balloon like, (as one woman from New Hampshire told me personally; "when it left it took off like a humming bird"), the size of a plane or bigger, unlike anything they have seen before or since ... and to those of them who made an attempt to go to the library, study every flying machine they could over the years and still not having found or seen anything like what they saw back then, and made a continual effort all that time to study the history of UFOs to explain what they saw to themselves and, finding for themselves that it looks as though something is most probably going on that is not simply misidentified astronomical items, media-hype, hoaxes, etc. ..... it makes a _big_ difference. You have also said: >Most of the folks who >have been doing for decades prefer 90% to 95% which would give us a nice >and easily to handle dataset. JC: Those were the skeptics to whom I was referring in my opening paragraph. >1) _Most_ UFO sightings turn out to be readily explainable..... JC: It would make me feel a lot better if this said: "_A large number_ of UFO sightings turn out to be readily explainable....." > >2) The raw sighting count or the raw sighting report count is an utterly >useless and meaningless number. JC: John, it can't be totally "useless and meaningless" or you would not have a base number from which to derive your core number. >3) After extensive research and investigation, _some_ (small) >percentage, with a high point around 15% to 30% <grin> to a low of >around 5%, of UFO sightings remain beyond current explanation. _Some_ >older UFO sightings (Catalina film and at least one other) did yeild a >common Earthly explanation upon the use of modern technology, and its >likely a _few_ more will follow in time. JC: Hmmn. What did they say the Catalina sighting was? Who did the analysis? Who confirmed this analysis? Where is this material for us to see? Is this agreed upon by most UFO researchers, at least on this mail list? We should really save this for another discussion so we don't get off track here for a moment. Howeover, _this_ remaining >core dataset should be the primary focus of ufology. JC: Agreed. >There's at least one good (or sensible to some <grin>) reason why the >really good UFO stuff didn't go to Bluebook. Bluebook was a PIO >quasi-investigative operation and if they had to explain a particular >sighting as being an advanced USAF R&D craft I rather think the folks at >the DoD would get upset... > >I suspect that if the DoD would be forthcoming with declassification >and disclosure we could whittle our core dataset down to around 5%. JC: Well, the Bollender Memo apparently did confirm part of what you are saying. But as for your last sentence, this is your opinion to which you are certainly entitled. However, it is not shared by this researcher. I believe it is quite possible the percentage could be a lot higher than this. Why do I think this? Again, in your most honest opinion, upon close inspection does the following case from 1965, quoted by Dr. Hynek from Blue Book files, sound like it was "an advanced USAF R&D craft?" Look at the speed and hoverability. >>[Extract from a >>classified document of reported sighting of 5 May, 1965, contents >>unclassified, classification refers to name, and location and >>mission of vessel.] " . . . leading signal man reported what he >>believed to be an aircraft. . . . When viewed through binoculars, >>three objects were sighted in close proximity to each other; one >>object was first magnitude, the other two were second magnitude. >>Objects were traveling at extremely high speeds, moving toward >>ship at undetermined altitude. At . . . . four moving targets >>were detected on the . . . . air search radar at ranges up to >>twenty two miles and held up to six minutes. When over the ship >>the objects spread to circular formation directly overhead and >>remained there for approximately three minutes. This maneuver was >>observed both visually and by radar. The bright object which >>hovered off the starboard quarter made the larger presentation on >>the radar scope. The objects made several course changes during >>the sighting, confirmed visually and by radar, and were *tracked >>at speeds in excess of 3000 (three thousand) knots. * (J.C. >>Asterisks are mine.) Challenges were made by IFF but not >>answered. * After the three minute hovering maneuver, * the objects >>moved in a southeasterly direction at an extremely high rate of >>speed. Above evolution observed by CO, all bridge personnel and >>numerous hands topside." JC: Add to this the three cases I cited in Oberg/Cooper.7abc from the late 1950's. Or the "NATO and police-verified" Belgium sightings of 1989/90. * Same question. Do these cases sound like "advanced USAF R&D craft?" >But I think the difference between 30% or 15% or 5% is largely irrelevant. JC: Irrelevant to who(m)? I guess you are entitled to your opinion. But, let's see. Say we call the number of raw cases _15,000 per/yr_ (Difference between your 10,000 and Jan's 20,000). Core database number of unknowns would be: 30% = 4500 15% = 2250 and 5% = 750 cases respectively. Instead of cases, if one of these was going to be your salary for this statistical analysis, which one would you choose? :-) Please remember that if you were to discover _1_ of these cases to be proven to your satisfaction to be the "real thing," you might just might have to start rethinking other cases you eliminated by "grand reduction," perhaps military cases first, since they have radar-visuals and they have radar which is geared to the specific task. ** If "they" actually got here, where are they staying? You might have to ask; "Did they just stop in for a drive around the block, or with the effort and cost it probably took to get here, did they have a purpose?" How do we presently study other species? Are they studying us? How might they do this? etc. ** We wouldn't want to cloud the issue with possible doubt as was claimed in a "radar-visual" Michigan case where a well-known skeptic was convinced that the person with weather radar must obviously have made a mistake since the operator's radar wasn't geared specifically for that purpose. (Even though the operator was well-skilled and swore that what was on his scope were extremely solid returns and he was able to show interested parties the difference between ground reflections, temperature inversions, etc.) Unfortunately, the only trouble is, we may never be privy to those specific military cases because they'll never release them. But, a large number of indicators are literally screaming at us that they are there; from the CAA tower operators Professor McDonald brought in to testify in the 11/4/57 Kirtland AFB case (Oberg/Cooper 7b & c) to the 1979-81 FOIA releases of memos from nine different government agencies that discussed amongst other things, UFO visits to SAC bases in 1975, in which the coordinated efforts of 15 A.F. bases to apprehend the intruders failed. Sincerely, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net BELGIUM CASE: * Belgium case shown below as it appeared in the July/Aug 1990 issue of CUFOS (Center for UFO Studies) IUR (International UFO Reporter). The case was reinacted on "Unsolved Mysteries" narrated by Robert Stack. Recorded data taken by Belgian Air Force plane radar was included in the reinaction along with videotaped statements from military & police personnel. I find it extremely difficult to believe that the Belgian Air Force and national police would put their reputations on the line to say something of this sort if there wasn't something substantial to it. Something had to really shake them up enough for them to say it as a combined group. The descriptions given by the police in the video were amazing to say the least. These people are trained observers to handle emergencies & wartime events. It seems to make sense to me to trust a _large group_ of trained observers before I will believe any individual skeptic who _thinks_ he has proven otherwise. >----start here---- "On the night of March 30th, one of the callers reporting a UFO was a Captain of the national police at Pinson, and [Belgian Air Force] Headquarters decided to make a serious effort to verify the reports. In addition to the visual sightings, two RADAR installations also saw the UFO. One RADAR is at Glons, southeast of Brussels, which is part of the NATO defense group, and one at Semmerzake, west of the Capitol, which controls the military and civilian traffic of the entire Belgian territory. The range of the two RADARs is 300 kilometers, which is more than enough to cover the area where the reports took place. . . . Headquarters determined to do some very precise studies during the next 55 minutes to eliminate the possibility of prosaic explanations for the RADAR images. Excellent atmospheric conditions prevailed, and there was no possibility of false echoes due to temperature inversions. ". . . at 0005 hours the order was given to the F-16s to take off and to find the intruder. The lead pilot concentrated on his RADAR screen, which at night is his best organ of vision. The F-16 is equipped with very sophisticated equipment, including chase RADAR, which is not fixed directly ahead of the airplane, but makes a wide search in an arc of 90 degrees left and right of the nose. . . . "Suddenly the two fighters spotted the intruder on their RADAR screens, appearing like a little bee dancing on the scope. Using their joy sticks like a video game, the pilots ordered the onboard computers to pursue the target. As soon as lock-on was achieved, the target appeared on the screen as a diamond shape, telling the pilots that from that moment on, the F-16s would remain tracking the object automatically . . . . "[Before the RADAR had locked on for six seconds] the object had speeded up from an initial velocity of 280 kph to 1,800 kph, while descending from 3,000 meters to 1,700 meters . . . in one second! This fantastic acceleration corresponds to 40 Gs. It would cause immediate death to a human on board. The limit of what a pilot can take is about 8 Gs. The trajectory of the object was extremely disconcerting. It arrived at 1,700 meters altitude, then it dove rapidly toward the ground at an altitude under 200 meters, and in doing so escaped from the RADARs of the fighters and the ground units at Glons and Semmerzake. This maneuver took place over the suburbs of Brussels, which are so full of man-made lights that the pilots lost sight of the object beneath them . . . "Everything indicates that this object was intelligently directed to escape from the pursuing planes. During the next hour the scenario repeated twice. . . "This fantastic game of hide and seek was observed from the ground by a great number of witnesses, among them 20 national policemen who saw both the object and the F-16s. The encounter lasted 75 minutes, but nobody heard the supersonic boom which should have been present when the object flew through the sonic barrier. No physical damage was reported. Given the low altitude and speed of the object, many windows should have been broken." This case has all the hallmarks of the classic USAF jet-scrambling cases of the 1950s and 1960s, with one notable exception: the Belgian Air Force is not covering up anything. For a full translation of the Paris-Match article, write to: Robert J. Durant, 106 Hessian Hill Drive, Pennington, NJ 08534. >-----end here----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Project 1947 - 'UFO: The Government' From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 17:36:04 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 02:01:41 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 'UFO: The Government' The following was in the latest Barnes & Noble catalogue H44M 1059. "UFO: THE GOVERNMENT FILES by Peter Brookesmith "Ranging form healthy skepticism to paranoid delusions, conspiracy theories abound in modern America. And perhaps the most enduring of these is the widespread speculation over government involvement in the phenomenon of UFOs over the last 50 years. Here is a fascinating analysis of official involvement in the issue, using information released by or extracted from government agencies and illustrating with actual government documents. Peter Brookesmith is a lifelong enthusiast of the paranormal, whose investigations into the subject have resulted in several books and articles, including UFOS: THE COMPLETE SIGHTINGS. In this volume, he reveals the true extent of USAF, CIA, and FBI conspriacies and misinformation in the in the area of alien visitation and abduction. Sparing neither the government nor UFO-logists, this gripping account is sure to raise a storm of controversy over an endlessly intriguing topic. 9" X 12". B&W phots (Barnes & Noble) 176pp. HC. Only from Barnes & Noble: $14.98, E135726." Order by phone 24 hours/7days a week 1-800-843-2665 (Postage: US$4.95 Foreign: ?) Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Project 1947 - Japanese Items From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:59:49 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 02:02:31 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Japanese Items Greeting Jun-Ichi Takanaski, Thank you for that most interesting post. I have looked for the 1945 article you mentioned and found it in a US newspaper. I believe there is also one in the JAPAN TIMES. If I have that one, I will send you a copy. Kalispell (MT) DAILY INTER LAKE, 13 July 1947, page 1: "TOKYO MAN TELLS OF WARTIME 'FLYING HOT CAKES' AFTER RAID "Tokyo, July 12--(AP)--A toyko businessman came up with story today on 'Flying Hot Cakes' he had seen over Tokyo after wartime air raids. "'Roundish objects--like hotcakes--about 20 square yards flew at taxi cab speed after B-29's raided Toyko o hte nights of May 23 and May 25, 1944,' Toymyo Okado told Toyko newspapers. "'They were blue--maybe grey--and flew over my shelter. They were followed several times by six-feet wide and 30-feet long colored air waves.' "The object flew noiselessly and did not crash, Okado said. Asked if what he saw were 'Flying Discs,' he said they "might coincide, they might not.' One thing is very certain, he added--'In those days, we saw things.'" Quotes from 6004th Air Intelligence Service Squadron History (stationed in Japan) for 1953, p. 17: "30. As part of an effort to provide plausable explanations on sightings of unidentified flying objects, the ATI Section obtained recorded observations of meteority [sic] sighting in Japan are during 1952 and forwared the data to Detachment #1, 6004 AISS.... "32. In order to foster better relations between the Japanese Nationals and the American Military Forces, the Tech Intel Section is sometimes called upon to render various and sundry types of information to Japanese people. A good example of this is the inquiry made by Dr. Takata who wished to know if the section had any information concerning the appearance of 'flying saucers' in the Japan ara on 19 January. He was concerned because he was trying to determine the cause of an increase in the blood floculation number of certain individuals on 19 January 1953. Captain Tribolet checked with both Captain McKean, ATLO, FEAF, and teh National Japanese Observatory concerning this matter and found that no reports of this kind had been received at either place. The Tech Intel Section forwarded these findings on to Doctor Takata." Indeed a scientist who looks at all possibilities. I looked up "floculation," but I do not think that the dictionary give the medical term. "Floculation: the formation of of a small loosely aggregated mass or matter of material in suspending fluid or precipitation of such form in a liquid." ATI=Air Technical Intelligence ATLO=Air Technical Liaison Officer (?) FEAF=Far East Air Force. I think we should gether early Japanese reports and show them to you. Some you may not have seen as they are from Americans stationed in Japan. Best Regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 07 Jan 97 18:01:05 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:52:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 20:05:30 -0800 >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article To Ed Stewart, >I suggest you avail yourself of the available literature on the >Manhattan project and the Trinity test. It is extensive, detailed and >available to the public. I have Ed, in fact, I have quite a bit of it in my own library. The problem is that the information that is available the way you say is incomplete and perhaps not totally accurate. My search of the archives turned up more information. I was curious if you had done the same search. >What planes do you allege were on the air at the time of the Trinity >test? I am not aware of any. >As far as I know the AAF wanted to send up a B-29 to test the ability of >the plane to withstand the blast. I am not sure they even had the >opportunity to do that. If you check into the whereabouts of Luis Alvarez and Capt. Parsons, and others, at the time of the blast you will find that there were planes in the air at the time. > I haven't found any references in the literature for air support studies >associated with the above, or for that matter any aerial photography. Sometimes literature isn't complete. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Project 1947 - 'UFO: The Government' From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:27:59 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:15:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Project 1947 - 'UFO: The Government' >Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 17:36:04 -0800 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> >Subject: UFO: THE GOVERNMENT FILES >To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >The following was in the latest Barnes & Noble catalogue H44M 1059. > "UFO: THE GOVERNMENT FILES by Peter Brookesmith >"Ranging form healthy skepticism to paranoid delusions, conspiracy >theories abound in modern America. And perhaps the most enduring of >these is the widespread speculation over government involvement in the >phenomenon of UFOs over the last 50 years. Here is a fascinating >analysis of official involvement in the issue, using information released >by or extracted from government agencies and illustrating with actual >government documents. Peter Brookesmith is a lifelong enthusiast of the >paranormal, whose investigations into the subject have resulted in >several books and articles, including UFOS: THE COMPLETE SIGHTINGS. In >this volume, he reveals the true extent of USAF, CIA, and FBI >conspriacies and misinformation in the in the area of alien visitation >and abduction. Sparing neither the government nor UFO-logists, this >gripping account is sure to raise a storm of controversy over an >endlessly intriguing topic. 9" X 12". B&W phots (Barnes & Noble) 176pp. > HC. Only from Barnes & Noble: $14.98, E135726." Order by phone 24 >hours/7days a week 1-800-843-2665 (Postage: US$4.95 Foreign: ?) Heh. By reading this cute description, you'd think that Brookesmith had actually written a quality piece of *pro*-UFO research, rather than a contender for the Disinformation Award of the decade. He made Keyhoe sound like a saucer-crazed lunatic. The funniest part is that the description makes it sound like some of it might be pro-UFO, but the book not only trashes UFOs, but misrepresents it dishonestly in various aspects. Why is that? Why was it printed on such a massively expensive glossy paper? Who knows. And it was published by the recently UFO-crazy Barnes & Noble, too... At any rate, it does an excellent job of baiting in the fence-sitting agnostic who has slight pro-UFO leanings and then ramming skeptical disinformation down the reader's throat at a high velocity. The disinformation and slanted representations are couched quite well with spoon-fed token comments about the "mystery" of UFOs. Why, if such a skeptic, does Brookesmith couch his skeptical position and distortive presentation thereof in the guise of being an apparently pro-UFO author? Who would waste time researching something that he doesn't feel exists, all while writing a book that markets itself as being impartial and almost pro-UFO, but being downright skeptical and even distortive at various times? Why does Brookesmith bring up totally controversial and pro-UFO information from government files in the book, and then fail to probe them sufficiently, almost using his skeptical attitude as a reason to dismiss their significance for the agnostic and unaware reader? The reader is left thinking "Hey, that sounded compelling, but if the author wasn't impressed, it must not have been a good find." And the Keyhoe bio is an excellent example of an inexcusable misrepresentation. Very strange behavior for an investigative author, IMO. I have several questions for Mr. Brookesmith: 1) Have you ever served in the military or intelligence agencies of the US, UK, or elsewhere? 2) Have you ever held, or currently hold, a security clearance, and if so, what is it? 3) Would you sign a privacy waiver to allow an FOIA search for documents on yourself at various intelligence agencies? I hate to bring this kind of thing into such a useful forum, but sometimes in the counterintelligence game, such questions need to be asked. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs (Correction) From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:13:09 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:14:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs (Correction) I wrote: >This is a very important point, because it falsifies the misidentification >hypothesis. That is, by misidentification hypothesis, I refer to the >skeptical position, or the null hypothesis (so to speak), which is that UFOs >are simply a potpourri of misidentified prosaic phenomenon. The >misidentification hypothesis clearly predicts that lousy observers are more >likely to be unsolvable, i.e., "unknown". Yet this prediction fails >completely, since there is direct relationship between observer skill and >solvability. Brain failure -- just so nobody wonders what I'm talking about, obviously I meant that there is an inverse relationship (not direct) between observer skill and solvability of the report, which is the opposite of what the misidentification hypothesis predicts. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:41:06 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:17:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > Date: 07 Jan 97 18:01:05 EST > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 20:05:30 -0800 > >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Shell Responds to Chapman's 'Strange' Article > >I suggest you avail yourself of the available literature on the > >Manhattan project and the Trinity test. It is extensive, detailed and > >available to the public. > I have Ed, in fact, I have quite a bit of it in my own library. The > problem is that the information that is available the way you say is incomplete > and perhaps not totally accurate. My search of the archives turned up more > information. I was curious if you had done the same search. That is fantastic and welcome news. How about sharing this breakthrough of yours searching the archives and tell us in context exactly what you found and where? Of help would be which archive, the group number, what folder or box the breakthrough information you uncovered and the name and phone number of the archivist/archivists that assisted you in your discovery/discoveries? As you apparently know, archives can be labyrinths and difficult to navigate for those scraps of information that so often remain dormant and unseen. > >What planes do you allege were on the air at the time of the Trinity > >test? I am not aware of any. > >As far as I know the AAF wanted to send up a B-29 to test the ability of > >the plane to withstand the blast. I am not sure they even had the > >opportunity to do that. > If you check into the whereabouts of Luis Alvarez and Capt. Parsons, and > others, at the time of the blast you will find that there were planes in the > air at the time. Again, my limited resources and skills have not turned up anything. But, since now we know that not only you have an extensive personal literature readily available to you and that you have apparently uncovered some earthshaking information through personally searching the archives, how about sharing your source documentation so that others can follow up and verify the above so that we can all put the thread to rest and go on to bigger things? > > I haven't found any references in the literature for air support studies > >associated with the above, or for that matter any aerial photography. > Sometimes literature isn't complete. How true, but now that we have you and your research skills participating on this thread, you are in a position to really help finding out the truth about some of this matter and sharing your source documentation with us so that we can lay this phase of the conflict to bed once and for all. Please include the names and phone numbers of the archivers that helped you with your discoveries on these issues. Since I don't live near Washington, D.C. or Atlanta, my followups for copies of your discoveries will need to be handled by phone and mail. To do that I would need to know exactly what it is that the archives hold and be able to identify it by control group, box and folder at minimum. It would help immensely to have the name and phone number of any archivists that have assisted you in your discoveries. Thank you very much for your participation, interest, research and willingness to share your documentation and research skills with the world. It is very nice to come across folks that are part of the solution and not part of the problem. Anxiously awaiting the posting of your documentation. Once more, my deepest thanks. Ed Stewart --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: egs@netcom.com (Edward G. Stewart) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 03:04:12 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:18:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:08:52 -0500 (EST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Faster Than Light Travel > >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:35:05 +0100 (MET) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Faster Than Light Travel > >>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 23:51:09 -0500 (EST) > >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >>From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) > >>Subject: Re: UFo UpDate: Faster Than Light Travel > >>I believe the magazine was the one I recommended the other day that > >>everyone read. It was FINAL FRONTIER Feb. '97 issue and the article was > >>"Mind Fields." > > Drew, > > Do you have more information about the journal itself? I've never > > heard of it. > > Jean It's been in circulation now for about a decade. Basically, it is a popular magazine on space exploration. Occasionaly they will have pieces related to flying saucers. Recently, the May/June 96 issue, V. 9, N. 3, had a cover story "Flying Saucers - What's Under The Hood?" by Michael Warren. The story was about rocket scientists discussing ideas for space travel in the 21st Century. At the time, the article also listed another www site called The Canonical List of Space Transport Methods where futuristic propulsion systems was discussed. That web site: http://www.gvsp.usra.edu/space/explprop/transport/ Haven't visited the site recently, so I don't know if it is still active or not. [Ed, it is and last modified Tuesday August 16, 1994 0:18:00 GMT - ebk] Ed Stewart --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Japanese 'UFO' Museum and Colin Andrews - Latest From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:18:24 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:13:22 -0500 Subject: Japanese 'UFO' Museum and Colin Andrews - Latest Hi All.. Yet more on the so-called "Japanese UFO Museum" and Colin Andrews' continued promotion of it as part of an alleged "UFO Education" program. It isn't, it never was... - John ===================================================================== Special Bulletin No.ML-3/96 Japan UFO Science Society C.P.O. Box No.1437, Osaka, 530-91, Japan ''Colin Andrews' Strange Statement in CPR Newsletter, Vol.5, No.1'' By Jun-Ichi Takanashi, Chairman Mr. Colin Andrews, who had publicized such fantastic idea in his 'Circles Phenomenon Research International Newsletter', Vol.2, No.2, Fall 1993, that the newly planned "Space and UFO Museum" in a small Japanese local town of Hakui City in the middle-northern part of Japan is the Government planned and sponsored museum to teach the Japanese people about the UFOs and to release the important secret of the UFOs in their file through it to the world!" has again tried to reinforce the same idea and to advocate his position in the Vol.5, No.1, Spring/Summer issue of the same Newsletter under the heading of "Japanese UFO and Space Museum", when he found that the museum had not attained the goal he foresaw, as follows: "In 1994, I attended a confidential meeting in New York with my wife Synthia. Present were several Japanese and American officials and a few select researchers. It was clear that the main intention of the meeting was to discuss how much information the Japanese government intended to release via the museum. The answer was that they intend to release all information, including that which would reflect US government cover-ups of UFO activities. However it was also established that the Japanese did intend to wait to disclose sensitive U.S. information until after the present administration was"ready", whatever that meant. After developing a relationship with Takano over the past several years and extensive involvement on my part in the crop circle section of the museum, I have become convinced that through the vehicle of this museum, important information would be released to the public." As this is so unbelievable a story for any sane Japanese UFO researcher, I asked Takano about this meeting, enclosing a copy of this statement. His answer is translated here in verbatim as follows: "As to Andrews' <In 1994...> story, there was one meeting he may have meant, but it was not any official one and he was only an observer. If it was a 'confidential' one, why discussions were made in loud voices in the open floor of the Hotel Sheraton? I could not find any 'select researcher' beside he and his wife. Surely I remember that about seven persons, officials and military advisers, beside Colin and his wife, had discussed the matter, but the theme was not about the UFO situation in Japan, but about the UFO policy in the USA. It was only a free discussion and not the confidential one. If it was a confidential one, it would not have been MADE on the hotel floor. I have found now anything can be described in any way!" Before the above sentence in his same article, Colin wrote, "I was introduced to Johsen Takano and several government officials at the United Nations on the 22nd of October 1993", as if Takano was accompanied by several Japanese officials. But, Takano says he went there himself alone, although he remembers that there were some staff of the Japanese section of the United Nations present in the meeting!! Why you cannot observe and interpret the situation correctly, Colin ? Takano also says here, "No one asked me 'Have you come here as a representative of the Japanese Government ?" Only you have misunderstood, Colin. Perhaps Takano was talking about his own plan or hope for his community's museum, but you mistook it as the Japanese Government's plan. Every Japanese knows that their government has no interest in the UFOs and there could be no possiblity that their government would build the museum in order to educate the Japanese people about the UFOs. It's totally a laughing stock here. If you don't believe in my words, ask any Japanese on the street or government officials here about it and they would not understand what you would mean. It is totally out of the question ! As you promoted such an unfounded idea, the England UFO magazine,"The UFO Reality" had devoted one page to the opening of the museum in its 'Launch Issue',page 6, and spread the caption, "HATS OFF TO THE JAPANESE GOVERNMENT"! But, Japanese Government would be dismayed if hats offed by the foreigners for the deed they have never been responsible! The text reads, "Mr. Takano told us: 'Inside we will show much UFO and Crop Circle information. This is the first phase of a government program which has a budget of 5,400,000.00 yen, approximately 50 million US dollars.'" When I showed a copy of this page to Mr. Takano, he was flabbergasted, "Who had written this article ? Andrews ? I feel a pain in my head. I have never said such thing." Then, Mr.Takano added a very dreary news for Andrews, that there is no exhibition in the museum about the crop circles since its very opening ... The text proceeds to report, "This is not the first time the Japanese Government has shown the way in the field of 'alternate research'. They have already poured millions of dollars into researching the UFO and Crop Circle Phenomena". Every Japanese UFO researchers and fans would again burst into a laughter hearing such a fantastic story ! Our Government has never paid a cent to such 'crazy' problems, and has never showed the interest in them. Further nonsense follows: "Indeed Nippon Television are possibly in possession of more UFO and Crop Circle footage than any other major national TV network". You must know that the Nippon TV is not the government-controlled TV (Japanese national TV is NHK) and there is no connection between them. Furthermore, the UFO programs shown in the Nippon TV recently were not produced by their own staff. They were produced by the outside productions and those UFO and crop circle footage are not possessed by the Nippon TV! In his recent letter to me dated 24th October 1996, Mr. Colin Andrews writes concerning the Hakui Museum, "Let me first tell you that there WAS a plan to feature the UFO and Crop Circles in the museum and that it WAS named The Hakui Space and UFO Museum." And asks, "How can I know?" and proceeds to try to prove it. But, how can you prove, or deny it better than me ? You are not living here, you can not speak Japanese, and first of all, you are only hearing it from Mr.Takano? Yes, there was really such a plan. There is no denying it. But, checking back the news reports in the only local newspaper in the district, "Hokkoku Shinbun" (Northern Country Newspaper), we find that, on October 20, 1993, two days before the SEAT meeting in the UN Building in New York, the city was still undecided as to how to attract the sightseers to their museum, as there were, they found out, more than 360 similar science museums all over Japan, and in order to beat the competition against them, citizens' group and others were demanding them to put forward the space and UFO parts of the museum to the front. "They (city) have decided to continue their discussion on this point for a few months more", so the report says. And it was only on January 7, 1994, two months and 16 days AFTER the SEAT meeting in New York, that the "UFO Information Library" was decided to be established in the museum as the "main attraction". (Hokkoku Shinbu, 1994.1.7) So, at the time of SEAT meeting on October 20, 1993, the postion of the UFO subject in the planning for the museum was still undecided. But, as Mr. Takano is a very enthusiastic UFO fan, belonging to the local UFO group, "Hakui Mystery Club", and was a driving force and the planner of the successful first Space and UFO Symposium in 1991, he may have naturally been wishing to create a museum mainly related to the UFO subject. So, in all probability, what Mr.Takano explained to Mr.Andrews in the SEAT meeting could be only his own plan and dream, not the Japanese Government plan, nor even his city's decided plan. You must remember here that he had visited and attended the meeting by himself alone. It was only his private affair! So, there was really such a plan of establishing the UFO and Space Museum in Hakui City, but in its embryo state. You have no need to prove it. I have never denied it. And the "UFO Information Library" is still there in the 2nd floor of the opened "Cosmo Isle Hakui", supervised by Mr. Takano himself. But you had incessantly called it the "UFO Museum", not the "Space and UFO Museum", Colin, until your above CPR Newsletter, Vol.5, No.1, article, whereas the Hakui City itself has always been calling it the "Space Museun" as a temporary designation. WHY ?! But, then, why the museum could not live up to the expectation of many UFO fans and researchers all over the world in its contents, as per Mr. Takano's hopes and dreams, and why the city itself seems to have given up their original plan of attracting the visitors by its UFO exhibition part ? My best guess is that although the predecessor of the "UFO Information Library", the "UFO Material Exhibition Room", established in July 1991 in the city's Culture Hall just after the big success of the first Space and UFO Symposium in November 1990, had at first become very popular and attracted vast number of visitors from all over Japan, reaching 23,000 in 1993, it had gradually become unpopular, with its 70 pieces of UFO photo-panels, videos, and other materials, as such regular exhibition could be seen through in about 5 minutes and the average visitors were not satisfied, and as the result, although there were many enquiries from all over Japan, the city's Sightseeing Section had become reluctant to invite the visitors, saying, "You may come, but..." In spite of such unfavorable experience in the past, the city authorities may have thought and expected that a far more attractive exhibition could be created for the museum and succeed in inviting many visitors from all over Japan. But, to create a really attractive and fascinating UFO exhibition is a very difficult job for any person, and especially as Mr.Takano had now realized that the Bill Meier Photos, which had previously attracted many citizens in his first UFO exhibition in 1985 and which had created a big UFO boom in a small local town of Hakui, were all tricks, and furthermore, he or the city authorities may have become doubtful about those picturesque Crop Cirles, they may have realized that it is really impossible to build up a truly attractive and worthwhile to see UFO exhibition and they may have given up their initial plan to publicize the city as the "City of UFOs" and to attract the visitors by their exhibitions of the UFO materials in the museum. This is my guess, but having considered all the situations from all angles, this seems to be the most probable explanation to me. But, on the other hand, if it was indeed the government planned and sponsored UFO museum to teach the Japanese people about the UFOs and to release the top secrets about UFOs through it, how such alteration of the purpose of the museum can be allowed by the government ? The answer is very obvious: the Hakui Museum has never been the government planned museum and the idea of its gorgeous debut to the world as the specialized "UFO Museum" was only someone's dream ... ---------------------------- (Note): If anyone who was not aware of our recent bulletins, Nos. ML-1/96, ML-1/96- ADD, ML-2/96, etc., concerning the much-publicized, so-called "UFO MUSEUM" (now called the "Cosmo Isle Hakui") and Mr. Johsen Takano, who is the mouthpiece of the museum and who had confirmed that he had taken those strange 'alien photos' which had recently appeared in the "PENTHOUSE" magazine as the genuine ones, (with no intentionto to deceive, Takano says), and wants to read them, please send two pieces of "International Postal Reply Coupon", and we will send them to you by air mail. Our address: Japan UFO Science Society, C.P.O. Box No.1437, 530-91, Osaka, Japan. To those of you who have not known about these problems, here is a short introduction : It all began when Mr. Colin Andrews met Mr. Johsen Takano at the SEAT Symposium held in the United Nations building in New York on October 22, 1993, and wrote a surprising report about it in his 'Circles Phenomenon Research International Newsletter', Vol. 2, No.2, Fall 1993, revealing that the new museum planned to be built in a small Japanese town of Hakui City, in the north-central part of Japan was a government planned and funded museum and the "begining of a very important government program following adoption of a new policy to educate the Japanese people about UFO phenomenon within the next three years". We were very much surprised by this riddiculous news, because we have never known of our government interest in the UFOs, and there had never been any inkling of such possibility. But, as Mr.Takano had not been communicative with all other UFO investigators in Japan, we could not check about it at once. But Andrews called it the "UFO Museum" and continued to promote it and in due course, involving the all problematical Roswell Archive Footage films, and the so-called "Chinese Alien Photos", created a very complicated severe controversy among the serious UFO investigators in the world. Now, in our recent scrutiny, we have found from him that as he is a staff of a local government of Hakui City, he thought that he could call himself a "government officer", although his name card shows his employment place correctly, as "Hakui City Municipal Office", and this may have caused the confusion when he met Mr. Andrews, and especially as he had spoken with him through an interpreter, he may have been mistaken... ======================================================================= -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: The Literary Genius of Mr Mantle From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:16:30 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:16:13 -0500 Subject: Re: The Literary Genius of Mr Mantle The formidable Don Peregrine Mendoza noted, while slicing Philip Mantle's most recent effusion like so much factory-reject sashimi: >When you have seen as many UFO photographs and declined to publish them as I >have, you take a gander at those first, in a new book. And, yes, here are some >we haven't seen before - mug shots of a few characters whose clones you could >see in any rush hour in Scunthorpe. O the gall! Mendoza has included *large,* detailed photographs of Phil Klass in BOTH of his most recent books! And without so much as a warning to readers with sensitive stomachs. I still quail at the memory... Bruce W.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Drake's Equation From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 07:34:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:41:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation > Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 14:43:22 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > > What about the idea that Earth was colonized by ETs millennia ago. > > We see UFOs so often because they come from here and are no longer > > extraterrestrial. We see them so seldom because they don't want to > > be seen. > A perfectly valid speculation, and yet another possibility that Sagan > didn't consider when he "proved" that UFOs couldn't be visiting us in > even a fraction of the numbers required to generate existing UFO > reports. Since there are no formal rules for speculating virtually any speculation can be considered "valid," whatever that means. > It's easy to come up with possibilities like this...which I'm not > saying as a criticism of you, Bob! I'm saying it as a criticism of > Sagan, who was monumentally unimaginative (not to say a little smug) > when he came up with his quasi-scientific proof. Sagan's 'proof' was based on a _lack_ of evidence and this is not an uncommon method used in critical analysis. Maybe Earth was colonized by ETs but until there's evidence its just chatter. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) Search for other documents from or mentioning: sjpowell | gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 FO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 08 Jan 97 09:53:49 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:53:44 -0500 Subject: FO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing >Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 09:17:39 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing John, You asked me if I sniff tested the writing. Yep, smelled just like plain ol' ball point ink to me. Obviously not of alien origin. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Information Sought & 'B2' Sighting From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:41:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:51:21 -0500 Subject: Information Sought & 'B2' Sighting Dear Colleagues, I was hoping someone with more knowledge about these matters than I could confirm the following: "US Naval submarines do not carry surface to air missiles" In light of the TWA 800 incident, perhaps someone can shed light on this? On a separate note: At exactly 12.50pm today, a motorist travelling on the A14 in Cambridgeshire, England, saw a B-2 'flying wing' make a slow 90 degree turn into low cloud at a height of approximately 1,000 feet. The motorist called me within minutes of the sighting on his mobile phone to report the matter. He was somewhat excited... Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Old UFO case From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:27:57 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:56:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Old UFO case Jan and all - this is from the same series you emailed about earlier. I love this book! I bought it at Walden's but I am sure it would probably be available from the same information you have. The Wiltshire Shadows Chisbury, Wiltshire, England 8 April 1912 Charles Tilden Smith reported the following to the respected British science journal Nature. For over half an hour Smith observed two fan-shaped or triangular 'heavy shadows' cast onto clouds overhead. The clouds were moving rapidly, but the shadows remained stationary in the sky. From time to time the unidentified apparitions varied in size. Smith concluded that two large unseen objects in the west were intercepting the Sun's rays. ASSESSMENT If the Sun had been the light source that the objects were intercepting, then the shadows should have moved higher on the clouds as the Sun declined in the sky. But they did not. Therefore there must have been a separate light (which Smith did not see) maintaining a constant position in the sky. The changes in size were probably caused by shadows falling at different angles on the cloud surfaces. Which does not explain the objects or the light source. pg. 28 UFO The Complete Sightings Peter Brookesmith Barnes & Noble, Inc. 1995
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Drake's Equation From: KRandle993@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:12:46 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:52:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation In a message dated 97-01-08 01:53:20 EST, Pat writes: << > Ed Steward slipped a cog when he said; > >Really? I was not aware there was a record of migration or colonization > >to another planet. Would you please enlighten the list? Inquiring minds > >would like to know. > Two words. "Mars rock" > ~Pat~ > Gotcha! :-D >Thanks Pat, >We have also left a variety of instrumentation and machines on other >planetary bodies, e.g. moon, Venus, Mars, etc. Besides we have long had >it within our technical capabilities to send animals to other planetary >bodies but haven't either for lack of purpose or political reasons. >Gary >> None of which is a migration. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 07:42:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:50:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:12:05 -0600 (CST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > This is a critical point, because it logically decimates the > misidentification hypothesis. I've yet to hear a skeptical > counterpoint on this falsification of the misidentification > hypothesis. I've never seen the misidentification hypothesis formally presented but I'm sure there are folks who think that misidentification answers everything. That's kind of silly since the majority of observers are casual and untrained and therefore not likely to recognize classified military test craft. Nor are they likely to recognise staged tactical deceptions. How does one turn the Pascagoula case into a misidentification <grin>? -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - Persinger? From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 10:49:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:14:28 -0500 Subject: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - Persinger? Corl Ribl=E9t writes, after watching a Discovery channel show on alien abductions: =20 > A neurobiologist was shown researching the influence of electromagnetic > fields on the brain. Using a helmet than can generate specific fields, > patterns and intensities he noted that people reported specific= experiences > with particular fields such as; feeling the presence of a person while > alone in a room, traveling through tunnels, white light, being suspended > in mid air, all commonly reported in abduction cases. Was this Michael Persinger?=20 If so, his hypothesis is built on a staggering series of assumptions and guesses. He hasn't at all demonstrated that tectonic processes generate the kind of electromagnetic fields that could account for the effects he's demonstrated in the lab.=20 Nor has he shown why these effects could cause abduction imagery, as opposed to hallucinations of other kinds.=20 And then, of course, there's the coherence of abduction stories, as demonstrated by Eddie Bullard in a pioneering 1987 study (and never refuted, to my knowledge, despite claims to the contrary).=20 I've seen Persinger on TV, and he struck me as something of a crackpot, despite his credentials and some impressive research into the conjunction of earthquakes and UFO reports. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- Persinger! From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:18:48 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:15:49 -0500 Subject: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- Persinger! > From: missionquest@seanet.com > To: Multiple recipients of list <emf-l@mail.llion.org > Subject: Electrically Induced Hallucinations > The Discovery channel aired a show probing possible explanations of "alien > abductions," over one million Americans claim to have been abducted. An > interview of over fifty abducties found that each had some sort of > electrical accident, then strange things began to occur, abductions being > only the latest. They all exhibited signs of electrical sensitivity. A > woman in the UK was interviewed who had been reporting strange occurrences > including alien abduction. An electrical accident and her electrical > sensitivity was noted, as well as her neighborhood's electrical transformer > station, radio and cell towers. > A neurobiologist was shown researching the influence of electromagnetic > fields on the brain. Using a helmet than can generate specific fields, > patterns and intensities he noted that people reported specific experiences > with particular fields such as; feeling the presence of a person while > alone in a room, traveling through tunnels, white light, being suspended > in mid air, all commonly reported in abduction cases. All the people knew > they were being tested and ascribed the test to account for their experiences, > but he noted that if a person has such experiences at home they will > interpret it differently than in a lab and will search for its meaning from > their cultural filters. He also noted that the appearance of aliens > distinctly changes from country to country, suggesting a cultural influence > to how we interpret these bioelecetrical disturbances. > I'm interested in following this lead, might you recommend any reports? Yes. Don't bother. Persinger's "magic helmet" is an interesting device and he has received a great deal of attention over the past few years. While some people (certainly not all) using his helmet report vague sensations and odd mild hallucinations, their experiences are greatly different from the complex narratives and reports of abductees and contactees. Persinger's suggestion that people in a "natural" environment would interpret such sensations as alien encounters is greatly unsatisfying. First, where would such magnetic fields come from in nature? Second, if such fields occur in nature, why do they always induce alien-specific hallucinations? Third, how does one make the jump from "odd colors" and "a presence in the room" to "the alien spoke to me as it inserted a probe into my genitals"? Persinger's theory originally was called the Tectonic Strain Theory (TST) of UFOs because he was adamant that all UFO sightings, reports and experiences could be explained as related to weak seismic events deep underground. The events would generate energy which would be the source for such hallucinations. However, the methodology used to associate UFO phenomena and earthquakes was shown to be flawed (although Persinger ignores or denies this). Besides, the intensity of energy from such sources would be much less than radiated energy from other souces, such as computers and television sets, in which case there would be a greater preponderance of abduction reports than is even claimed now. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: 'Backlash' From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:38:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:19:20 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:17:52 -0600 (CST) >From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" ><btbmag@ro.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' >> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:44:34 -0500 >> From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' >> Michael Malone writes: > > it is absolutely unthinkable and a black mark on those > > scientifically and ethically interested in UFOs that there are > > self-claimed abduction researchers (Yes, Greg, I mean that in a > > negative sense) who are using their knowledge of psychology and > > therapy, either hypno-thearpy or otherwise, to gain knowledge > > about an alleged experience, and then will report on that alleged > > experience without attempting to verify the experience physically. While it is always idealistic to assume that the personal qualifications and motivation of any MHP is oriented in favour of the 'patient', such is not reality. Certainly there have been serious mistakes and there remains a serious deficiency in the overall picture of practical, available care and standards of MHP while dealing with any experiencers or abductees. On a world-wide scale, the standards of care and qualifications of such MHP's is virtually non-existent. Personally, I do not have a very good opinion of most MHP's because of personal reasons. I do avoid all of them as if they were any other kind of political, religious, or social fanatic. Nevertheless, my trustworthy mechanic keeps both me and my equipment rolling as I should. Incidentally, he believes in IFO's.. Identified Flying Objects. ------------------> Snipa bit <----------------- >> Who would those auxillary agencies be, in the case of supposed >> abductions? >I would like to say that the auxillary agencies would be a group such >as MUFON, but I think most people on this list knows how I feel about >them. Ideally, it would be a group of researchers willing and able >to perform the associated physical research and verification. >Depending on the needs of the patient (Remember when we were talking >about what to call abductees? I think the therapist should ALWAYS >remember that they are patients first. It might be advisable for a >private investigator to be hired. While many can't afford this >solution, there are a number of research groups who want verification >of alien abduction who should be willing to help with the physical >verification. This all sounds so prim and proper. Actually it is so far removed from the truth. Literally, for most experiencers/abductees, there is not a lot that can help them in any way. People living in small towns or rural areas have a hard enough time getting decent medical care let alone for something as controversial as troubles that directly result from bad abduction experiences. For the most part they are left to their own devices. After fifty or so years of ongoing abductions, experiences and the lot, that the esteemed MHP community would have set up some kind of realistic avenue for dealing with the whole subject of experiencers and abductees. Yet, in the Capital city of Canada (like most other cities in Canada) there is a definite lack of both professional and grassroots organizations or any other kinds of support groups. Bud Hopkins is only one man. Yet he has had an overload of calls and mail for his services. He is only one example of many concerned and capable professionals who operate virtually alone and without vital support in trying to help some of the more desperate kinds of cases. But, Bud is not alone, there are so many others like him who would try to do something if he could. Sheer numbers of his caseloads are snowing him under an avalanch of desperation. He needs help just as much as anyone else does to properly conduct realistic approaches to a supposedly non-existent myth. That, sadly, is the average response from the very limited MHP resources available. The few MHP's that lend their ear soon find it bent out of its previous shape. On the one hand, there are so many desperate people with outlandish problems and on the other, a vast community of professionals who have neither time nor place for any sort of association with a few rogue doctors. Fact remains, abductions will continue as they have in the past. Of all of the strange lights in the skies, maybe a few are going to be one of those IFO's. And nothing changes. >In the case of implants, alien pregnancies, and the like, the obvious >agency is a doctor. I've run into several female "abductees" who >claim to have given birth to alien fetuses onboard alien craft, but >have never been to a doctor to have those pregnancies verified. All >these women were under the care of an psycologically based alien >researcher, and the researcher never suggested the medical >verification. Do you realize that those 'claims' could have been anything more than just 'claims'? Since you can't be obvious enough to believe any of the supposed 'claims' then there must surely be supporting evidences. Evidence? What Evidence! Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence. Believe that the evidences are to be found. There is such a shortage of MHP's who are willing enough to deal with the mundane problems of the world that there is literally no one left to go to for the abstract and controversial subjects. No average doctor, psychiatrist or any other kind of MHP has the time nor the inclination to shoot down his own career in the name of UFOology or any other kind of 'ungodly' entreprise. Just doesn't happen very often at all. So, being that there is no one to go to see, the lineups are non-existent for all to see. If you don't deal with the problem, it doesn't exist, right? > Lets start looking into the details of the abduction, the >feelings during the abduction, the abscribed motivation of the >aliens. >But don't stop there. Let's look at the patient's life and see how >the abduction fits into the whole patient, not just the abduction >experiencer. Let's look at what else the abduction might represent. >Then, if we have a patient who is either no longer, or has never, >exhibited any severe trauma, who is currently stable, and cannot >explain the abduction experience any any other terms, it's time to >start the physical investigation. Turn to local forensic groups, >here in Huntsville there is a forensic science explorer post. Try >interesting a privateinvestigator, or learn basic monitoring >techniques yourself. Apply a systematic, documented method to verify >that the abduction is occuring, using any and all means you can >obtain. Bin dere, done dat, no t-shirts left. What if...? >After all, how many more "stories" do we really need? How many more >"interpretations" can we use? Isn't it time we started the physical >aspect of this investigation. I keep repeating what no one here seems to remember. There is over fifty years of abduction experiences available to draw any kind of conclusions from. Literally, what you believe in is just what you will find to believe in. In conclusion, it starts right here. We will try to accomplish something worthwhile or not, right here. There are many other places to go to, but at the moment, we are still right here. Nothing is all that much different than fifty years ago. Sure, there are better toys to play with, but the mindset of everyone is not any more advanced for all of that. Yet, that's the important start. The mindset of people as a species has to change for the better. Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: CSETI Position Paper From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 12:02:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:18:09 -0500 Subject: Re: CSETI Position Paper Brian Cuthbertson, in reference to Greer's sgabduct.htm said; >It would be interesting to see comments on this paper >by any subscribing abductees. Greer is suffering. He thinks he is the only legitimate source of information on CE-5 experiences. I contacted that outfit years ago. (CSETI) I've had interaction by means of communication with UFOs but this fact Greer (or maybe his subordinates) ignored and they did no follow up except to send a package which if I took seriously would have cost quite a few bucks. Greer waves UN flags. I burn them. Greer tries to interact with and become some type of UFO/Alien 'authority' positioned in governments. I take the stand that governments are a detriment to truth and deserve no respect. CSETI seeks to become Blab-a-lon 5. I seek truth and am willing to kick some alien butt to get at it. In fact I'm willing to kick any butt to get at it. ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com/UFO http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://www.sat.net/~pparri/SCRAPS http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/comet
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 The Battelle Study [was: 'Philosophy of Science From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 08:33:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:17:02 -0500 Subject: The Battelle Study [was: 'Philosophy of Science > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:12:05 -0600 (CST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > >From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca > >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 16:01:56 -0400 > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Let us not forget that a quality evaluation was done by Battelle Memorial > >Institute in Project Blue Book Special Report 14 for more than 2000 cases. The > >better the quality the more likely to be an UNKNOWN.. precisely what one would > >expect if the UNKNOWNS were real and not misidentified knowns. > This is a very important point, because it falsifies the misidentification > hypothesis. That is, by misidentification hypothesis, I refer to the > skeptical position, or the null hypothesis (so to speak), which is that UFOs > are simply a potpourri of misidentified prosaic phenomenon. The > misidentification hypothesis clearly predicts that lousy observers are more > likely to be unsolvable, i.e., "unknown". Yet this prediction fails > completely, since there is direct relationship between observer skill and > solvability. [....] The Battelle study is indeed interesting and even in some cases helpful. However, it is flawed and suffers for the same objections I have made elsewhere. (Of course, there are other things. The summary attached has nothing to do with the report as a whole. It is another case of slap a summary on top and, they will never read the report because it is too big. Of course, in this case the access to the report was restricted to a room in the Pentagon.) 1. As with most statistical studies on ufos, there are selection effects. (military sample, time that the sky was observered, etc., etc.) The project staff apparently did not take these into account or find a method to offset them. 2. Once again the Air Force "controlled" what the analysts saw. While Battelle did add some cases from letters to the Air Force and clippings, they did not do so in a systemic manner. There is a statement that no cases before Arnold would be considered because the case were broughtout by the publicity of the event. In the Ruppelt's "catch all" LIFE magazine response file are a number of letters concerning incidents before 1947 in which the correspondences cite publications or institutions, (such as the Harvard Observatory, Flower Observatory, etc.) which had confirmation. A scientist looking at these letters would recognize that the witnesses were trying to establish their "priority" an exercise well known in scientific circles to establish who actually made a discovery or was entitled to a patent. (Once again, this was not a conspiracy. Ruppelt was overwhelmed in 1952 with reports. Military Intelligence tends to have a bias for fresh data. Most of the sighting reports in the catchall file had "OLD" written somewhere on the report with "Max file." (Direction to his clerk.) I don't think that Ruppelt, snow under in the 1952 wave, even consider these letters important. They were just more paper added to the wave after wave of incoming material.) 3. I am not sure that the chi square test knowns against unknown is meaningful. I would think that knowns and unknown with similar patterns should have used this tool. Ah. Here is the rub! Battelle could not find a pattern. Look at their 12 cases which they illustrate this inability to find any relationship. Bosh! How can other military intelligence studies immediately recognized patterns. 4. Manuevers and effects were not taken into account. All that said; Battelle's study does have value because it does indeed point out that the better trained and presumably more reliable the witness the great the chance the case is to be unknown. Insufficient inforamtion is not an invalid catagory (althought it may be an irrelavent one). There are cases that do not have enough information to make a determination. However, the Air Force placed cases in this catagory which were received after a certain period. If the sighting was not reported immediately, it is impossible to investigate immediately accord to Air Force criteria. Therefore, there is a greater possibility that the explanation could not be found because the of changes in conditions at the site, movements of possible causes, etc., ect. (This obviously does not take into account that Air Force investigations got underway long after the sighting was stale.) The other Air Force argument that memory deterioration takes place is more valid. As Hynek said a better label might be insufficient followup. However, this catagory was used also as a dumping ground and a statistical trick "to stack the deck." Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: 'Discovered' By Shramek From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:29:24 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:11:39 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Discovered' By Shramek > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: (again) 'Discovered' By Shramek > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 20:43:05 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Well folks, looks like one of our number has elected to get vocal. > Shall we have the nerve to do likewise? > ~Pat~ > >To: president@whitehouse.gov > >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> > >Subject: Hale-Bopp "companion" > >Dear Mr. President, > >When do you plan on informing the Nation regarding the "companion" > >accompanying Comet 1995/01 (Hale-Bopp) ? The "companion" > >has it's own orbital path, has no mass and has definately been spotted > >from observatories all over the planet. When the astronomical > scientific > >community attempted to debunk amateur astronomer Chuck Shramek, > >it only succeeded in backfiring in their red faces and making huge > >jackasses out of themselves. The companion is no mere "star"..it > >appears to be an object, possibly hollow and most likely here for a > definite > >reason. > > > >If there is anything unusual about this comet that will effect the > people > >in the United States or the rest of the world, I implore you to let us > >know now so that people can take steps to prepare for any meterological > >or geological changes it might cause in the next few months. If anything, the UFO community should be embarrassed. Pat, why not do this the other way around? Wait until there's a major "geological change" in the next few months ... and then sue NASA and the American government. If they're not going to listen to you, why not make some money off them? -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows | pparri |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:11:15 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:20:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >Date: 07 Jan 97 19:32:22 EST >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >>From: rfsignal@sprynet.com >>Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:57:03 -0800 >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Cathy Wrote; [snip] >the fantastic view of stars that should have >>been visible even in daylight because of lack of atmosphere and a host of >>other things... >The fantastic view of stars; Unfortunately lost in the contrast of the film, >more evident in the video and film footage. Kind of like walking out of a >bright room and looking up at the night sky. >James D, You got it right James. The exposure required to show the stars would have blown-away the information your're trying to get, ie. the astronauts, the LEM, the moon etc. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:11:23 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:21:34 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? > From: missionquest@seanet.com > To: Multiple recipients of list <emf-l@mail.llion.org > Subject: Electrically Induced Hallucinations > Date: den 6 januari 1997 23:09 > > The Discovery channel aired a show probing possible explanations of "alien > abductions,"... [snip] > A neurobiologist was shown researching the influence of electromagnetic > fields on the brain. Using a helmet than can generate specific fields, > patterns and intensities he noted that people reported specific= experiences > with particular fields such as; feeling the presence of a person while > alone in a room, [snip] > I'm interested in following this lead, might you recommend any reports? > Thanks in advance. > Sincerely, > Corl Ribl=E9t > missionquest@seanet.com Sounds like Michael Persinger to me. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 MILAB/Dr. Helmut Lammer on Abductions From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:07:54 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:54:51 -0500 Subject: MILAB/Dr. Helmut Lammer on Abductions ----- Dear Errol Bruce-Knapp, From: Helmut Lammer To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 09:53:30 +0200 Subject: Disclaimer Please note that I've not been involved in this kind of private research for more than 10 years, and the content of the article [below] does not reflect my present day opinion. Best wishes Helmut Lammer] ----- Preliminary findings of Project MILAB: Evidence for Military Kidnappings of alleged UFO Abductees By Helmut Lammer Ph.D. _1996 I. Introduction UFO abductions are generally a very strange and complex phenomenon. For skeptics, journalists and the public, it is difficult to believe that abductions by alien beings have their basis in physical reality. Reports of alien beings entering bedrooms through walls, and levitating abductees through closed windows and into a waiting craft are hard to believe for the open minded researcher too. However, well respected researchers have shown that the core of the UFO abduction phenomenon cannot be explained psychologically as hallucinations or mass delusions [1]. The passing decades of abduction research have brought changes as well. Recently, some UFO abductees have reported that they have also been kidnapped by military intelligence personnel (MILAB) and taken to hospitals and/or military facilities, some of which are described as being underground. Very few of the popular books on the subject of UFO abductions have mentioned these experiences. Especially disconcerting is the fact that abductees recall seeing military intelligence personnel together with alien beings, working side by side in these secret facilities. The presence of human military and civilian personnel occupying the same physical reality as alien beings exceeds the mind-sets of the skeptics and the open-minded researchers by several orders of magnitude. The skeptics would rather believe that stories of aliens and military personnel in governmental underground facilities are fabrications designed to elicit attention from conspiracy believers or hallucinations in general. Researchers in the field of mind control suggest that these cases are evidence that the whole UFO abduction phenomenon is staged by the intelligence community as a cover for their illegal experiments [2]. The open-minded researchers who are trying to gain respect for abduction research ignore these stories, since they represent only a minor fraction of the cases in their files [3]. I think that abduction cases involving abductee reports of being abducted by the military as well as alien beings, are very important for two reasons: 1.) If the UFO community has evidence that a covert military intelligence task force is involved in the abduction phenomenon, we would know that this phenomenon represents a matter of national security. 2.) The alleged military involvement in the abduction phenomenon could be evidence that the military uses abductees for mind control experiments as test-targets for microwave weapons. Moreover, the military could be monitoring and even kidnapping abductees for information gathering purposes during, before and after a UFO abduction. If either of these points are correct, researchers and victims can expect to run into early resistance when proposing Congressional hearings concerning UFOs and abductions. It is for this reason that I have created Project MILAB and present in this article my preliminary findings of this study. MILAB is the acronym for Military Abductions of alleged UFO Abductees. I reviewed the relevant literature, contacted UFO and mind control researchers, as well as MILAB abductees and mind control victims from all over the world. I have compared my findings with the comprehensive UFO Abduction Study by Dr.=7F Thomas Bullard [4,5], the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project [6,7] and the MIT Abduction Proceedings [1]. II. Helicopter Activity in Connection with MILABs My study indicates that MILAB abductees are harassed by dark, unmarked helicopters that fly around their houses. The mysterious helicopter activity goes back to the late sixties and early seventies, when they showed an apparent interest in animal mutilations, but not in alleged UFO abductees [8, 9, 10]. However, well-known researcher Raymond E. Fowler reports some helicopter activity in connection with UFO witnesses during the seventies [11]. Dr. Thomas Bullard compared 270 UFO abduction cases worldwide from 1968 to 1984. The majority of these cases occurred during the seventies and early eighties [4,5]. I found only 4 abduction cases in Dr. Bullard's study where the abductees saw helicopters over or near their houses. Among these cases is the well investigated Betty Andreasson-Luca abduction. Importantly, these helicopter cases occurred in North America; three within the United States and one in Canada. Curiously, there were also sightings of mysterious helicopters in England during the seventies, but they were not connected with animal mutilations or UFO abductions [12]. I have discovered that the helicopter activity associated with UFO abductions has increased from the eighties to the present day. Dan Wright has ten cases in the MUFON Transcription Project files (at the time of this publication), where helicopters were seen flying in the area of the abductee's home within hours of an alleged UFO abduction [7]. I have also found that many abduction researchers in North America have, on average, about three helicopter cases connected with UFO abductions, in their files. It appears to me that this is a North American phenomenon since none of the contacted researchers in Australia, Africa, Europe and South America have well investigated abduction cases that are connected with helicopter activity. Well-known abductees such as previously mentioned Betty Andreasson-Luca, as well as Debbie Jordan, Kathy Mitchell, Whitley Strieber, Leah Haley, Katharina Wilson, Beth Collins, Anna Jamerson and many more, have been harassed by these phantom helicopters [13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 20]. It is not appropriate to suggest that these helicopters are a nineties version of the black Cadillacs belonging to the Men in Black (MIB) [4], since some abductees have photographs of them and they have also been seen by witnesses who have nothing to do with the UFO phenomenon. [e.g. 10, 13, 18]. In other words, the unmarked helicopters are a physical phenomenon (perhaps contracted by a secret military intelligence task force), while the MIB phenomenon seems to have a paranormal derivation. Let us summarize what we know about the mysterious helicopter activity in five points: 1.) The helicopter activity began during the late sixties to early seventies and seemed to be connected with animal mutilations. 2.) During the above time frame, the helicopters showed only a minor interest in UFO abductees, appearing occasionally after UFO sightings. 3.) The helicopter activity began to increase in relation to UFO abductions during the eighties and up to the present day. However, it also continued to be reported in proximity to animal mutilation sites across North America. 4.) At present, many North American abduction researchers have some mysterious helicopter cases in their files. 5.) There were reports of phantom helicopter activity in England during the seventies, but it seems that their interest in animal mutilations and abductees is limited to North America. III. Alleged Kidnappings by Military Intelligence Personnel Most abductees report interaction with military intelligence personnel after the helicopters begin to appear. Debbie Jordan reports, for instance, in a side note of her book Abducted! [13] that she was stunned by an alleged friend and taken to a kind of hospital where she was examined by a medical doctor. This doctor removed an implant from her ear! The abduction experiences of Leah Haley and Katharina Wilson are full of MILAB encounters [15, 16]. Some of Katharina Wilson's experiences are comparable with mind control experiments. For example, she writes of a flashback from her childhood where she remembers being forced into what appears to be a Skinner Box-like container which may have been used for behavior modification purposes. Because of these types of experiences, Katharina Wilson published an excellent article on her Web Site titled Project Open Mind: Are Some Alien Abductions Government Mind Control Experiments? [19] Beth Collins and Anna Jamerson included hypnosis transcripts of an abduction by human military personnel in their book Connections [17], and the late Dr. Karla Turner investigated MILABs in her books Into the Fringe and Taken: Inside the Alien-Human Abduction Agenda [20]. A worldwide survey revealed that most North American abduction researchers have on average, between two and five MILAB cases in their files. At present, it seems to me that there are no UFO-related MILABs in Australia, South America, Africa, Europe, England or Ireland. I compared typical UFO abduction scenarios that were described in Dan Wright's MUFON Abduction Transcription Project with ten well investigated MILAB victims: Casey Turner, Katharina Wilson, Leah Haley, Debbie Jordan, "Polly," "Pat," "Lisa," "Beth," "Angie" and "Amy." The last six names are pseudonyms of abductees from the late Dr. Karla Turner's book Taken [20]. What I found were many differences between abductions by alleged alien beings and abductions by military personnel. MILABs involve the following elements: Dark, unmarked helicopter activity, the appearance of strange vans or buses outside the houses of abductees, exposure to disorienting electromagnetic fields, drugging, and transport by a helicopter, bus or truck to an unknown building or an underground military facility. Usually after the military kidnappings there are physical aftereffects such as grogginess and sometimes nausea. There is also a difference when the abductors appear. In most UFO abduction cases, the beings appear through a closed window, wall, or the abductee feels a strange presence in the room. Most abductees report that they are paralyzed from the mental power of the alien beings. During MILABs the abductee reports that the kidnappers give him or her a shot with a syringe. It is also interesting that MILAB abductees report that they are examined by human doctor's in rectangular rooms and not in round sterile rooms, as they are described during most UFO abductions [4, 5, 6, 7]. The described rooms, halls and furniture are similar to terrestrial hospital rooms, laboratories or research facilities and have nothing to do with "UFO" furniture. During a MILAB, the examination is similar as during UFO abductions, however, the MILAB victim is not paralyzed, but rather, tied to an examination table or a gynecological chair. Sometimes, the abductee gets a strong drink before the examination. This is perhaps a contrast-enhancing fluid. MILAB doctors are usually dressed in white lab coats and show an interest in implants as well as gynecological examinations. In some MILAB cases military doctors searched for implants and sometimes even implanted the abductee with a military device. Therefore, surgeons extracting alleged alien implants should be prepared in the event they find military devices since human implant technology is very advanced. IV. Terrestrial Implants To date, more than 3 million animals worldwide have been successfully implanted with an implantable transponder manufactured by Destron-Fearing [21]. The implantable transponder is a passive radio frequency identification tag, designed to work in conjunction with a compatible radio-frequency ID reading system. The transponder is activated by a low-frequency radio signal. It then transmits the ID code to the reading system. The smallest transponder is about the size of an uncooked grain of rice. The transponder's tiny electronic circuit is energized by the low-power radio beam sent by a compatible reading device. A similar bio-chip for humans was developed by Dr. Daniel Man in the United States. Dr. Daniel Man has held a U.S. patent for a homing device since 1989, that can be implanted in humans [22]. He developed the implant for solving the missing children problem. This device is slightly larger than the Destron implant and cannot be injected with a special syringe. Instead, a small surgical incision must be made for it to be implanted. It is important to note, that Dr. Man claims that the best location for his implant may be behind the ear. MILAB abductees like Debbie Jordan have reported that doctors have removed implants from their ears! Dr. Man says that the device is powered by a small battery that can be routinely charged with a device that is held outside the=7F body near the location of the implant. Those individuals in charge of monitoring the implants (and therefore the people) could use three satellites or specially equipped helicopters if they wanted to find a missing person. By using triangulation to follow the signal from the implant, satellites or the helicopters could pinpoint the implant's exact location. Before Dr. Man's device becomes available for use in humans in the United States, it will have to be approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. An agency interested in monitoring physiological information from an abductee during a UFO abduction could use biomedical telemetry. Biomedical telemetry is defined as a special area of biomedical instrumentation that permits the transmission of physiological information from an often inaccessible location to a remote monitoring site [23]. The transmitting unit can be implanted within a subject's body. Animals have been monitored with biotelemetry for about 30 years now. By using telemetric systems as a method of monitoring abductees, the military could obtain physiological data, such as respiration, muscle tension, and the presence of adrenaline in the bloodstream. There is evidence that the military developed Dr. Man's implant technology years ago. Research in the observation and control of human behavior and its possible use in rehabilitation was performed during the sixties. National Security experts like Dr. Steven Metz and Dr. James Kievit predicted in their report The Revolution in Military Affairs and Conflict Short of War for the US Army War College, that in the near future every American at risk could be equipped with an electronic individual position locator device (IPLD) [24]. They suggested that such a device could be permanently implanted under the skin with automatic remote activation upon departure from the United States, while passing through a security screening system at the airport, for example. The predictions by these national security experts resemble the plans of Dr. Joseph A. Meyer, a computer specialist with the National Security Agency (NSA). During the seventies, Dr. Meyer proposed attaching transponders to all Americans arrested for various crimes [2]. During the late fifties and early sixties neuroscientist Dr. Jose Delgado invented the stimoceiver, a electrode capable of receiving and transmitting electronic signals via FM radio waves. Such a device implanted in the brain via the sinus cavity for example, will act as a powerful stimulant when activated by FM radio waves. One can suggest that the stimoceiver has since been modified to receive stimulation from microwave pulses and is capable of wielding a surprising degree of control over the implanted victim's response mechanisms [25]. Implants were being used on unwitting persons as early as fifty years ago. One well documented case of the implantation of an electronic device into a victim is the case of Robert Naeslund. Mr. Naeslund claims that he was unwittingly implanted during an operation in Stockholm, Sweden. He has X-rays which clearly show a mushroom-shaped device in his brain. He claims that the operation was performed by Dr. Curt Strand, who inserted the device in his head through the right nasal passage [26]. The transnasal approach to implants is in common use in Neurosurgery [27, 28, 29, 30, 31]. Interestingly, alien abductees have been reporting since the sixties, how alien beings have implanted them by placing small objects up their noses through the nasal passage and sinus cavity. Alleged alien abductees and mind control victims relay that either alien doctors or human doctors performed these procedures. Robert Naeslund is not alone, he is now a researcher of Gruppen, an organization against illegal mind control experiments. Gruppen and other organizations like the Freedom of Thought Foundation have collected a lot of evidence that a secret implantation program is underway [26, 27]. These organizations are in contact with many victims from all over the world who have experienced similar effects as Naeslund, but have nothing to do with the UFO community. V. Virtual Reality Scenarios and Microwave Hearing It appears that some experiences of alleged alien abductees and mind control victims may be explained by an advanced virtual reality technology. The late Dr. Karla Turner called these experiences Virtual Reality Scenarios (VRS) [19, 20]. There are alleged mind control victims who claim that someone implants pictures in their brain [32]. If someone has been implanted with an intracerebral device, then the implant operators may be able to electronically implant pictures and memories into the brain of the abductee. The New World Vistas was a major undertaking for the USAF Scientific Advisory Board (SAB) [33]. This military publication was published in June 1996 and is a forecast of possible military developments over the next 50 years. In this publication, military scientists suggest that the development of electromagnetic energy sources, the output of which can be pulsed, shaped, and focused and coupled with the human body will be able to: 1) allow one to prevent voluntary muscular movements, 2) control emotions and actions, 3) produce sleep, 4) transmit suggestions, 5) interfere with both short-term and long-term memory, and 6) both produce and delete an experience set. The military scientists argue that the concept of imprinting a virtual reality experience set is highly speculative, but nonetheless highly exciting. If such a technology was developed in secret and exists today, the unexplainable vividness of some abduction accounts may be explained by the implantation of an experience set into the brain of an abductee. Dr. Joseph Sharp and Allen Frey experimented with microwaves and transmitted spoken words directly into the audio cortex via pulsed-microwaves. Dr. Frey's work in this field, dating back to the sixties, gave rise to the so called "Frey Effect," which is commonly known as "microwave hearing" [34, 35]. Again, alleged alien abductees and mind control victims sometimes report that they hear voices in their heads, although they are not schizophrenic. Certainly these scenarios cannot be the case for all UFO abductions like multiple abductions, but it may explain a small portion and may play a significant role in MILABs. VI. Otherworldly Journeys and Underground Military Facilities It is interesting to note, that seven abductees of my test sample claim that they were allegedly transported to a military underground facility. The research of Dr. Richard Sauder showed that almost every federal agency and military institution has several secret underground facilities across the United States. Some of these facilities are so secret that there are only rumors about their existence [36]. Otherworldly Journeys to strange underground places are common in UFO abductions and Dr. Thomas Bullard found a specific pattern in Otherworldly Journeys in his abduction research [4, 5]. 1.) Preparation: The alien beings put the abductee into a protective environment for the trip. 2.) Travel: Actual transit to the Otherworld occurs. 3.) Underground: The abductee passes underground. 4.) Landscape: The abductee sees the surface of the Otherworld. 5.) Museum: The tour of the Otherworld includes a stop at a museum or zoo. In Dr. Bullard's study there are 10 UFO abduction cases where the abductee experienced an Otherworldly Journey in an underworld, during their UFO abduction. A typical Otherworldly Journey is Betty Andreasson's experience in 1950. She experienced seeing a UFO plunge into a sea and come out again, and then enter huge crystalline caverns which broadened into a vast underworld. Less frequently the examination occurs on the Otherworld. During an abduction experience in 1967 Betty Andreasson passed through a long dark tunnel similar to a mine shaft cut out of rock. In addition, Dr. Gilda Moura informed me that she has investigated UFO abduction cases during which abductees reported Otherworldly Journeys into underground caves in Brazil. It is interesting that these Otherworldly Journeys are not comparable to well investigated MILAB underground cases. The Otherworldly Journey experiences have a mystical quality, while the MILAB underground experiences seem to be a manifestation in our reality. MILAB abductees describe elevators, hallways, generators, conference and medical rooms. Contrary to experiences during Otherworldly Journeys, if a MILAB abductee is kidnapped to an underground facility, the abductors examine the victims there. Some abductees report Otherworldly Journeys and MILAB experiences separately [16, 20]. Beth, an abductee from Dr. Turner's book Taken: Inside the Alien-Human Abduction Agenda, described flashbacks which began with her seeing a small flying disc and then entering a well lit underground city [20]. The craft flew through a tunnel passage into an enormous cavern that contained several buildings. UFOs were parked in various locations and alien beings were working side by side with human military personnel. In her next flashback Beth somehow flew through a body of water and into a tunnel, and then emerged from a lake. Such flashbacks should be investigated very carefully since they could be a mixture of an Otherworldly Journey (entering a well lit underground city) and a MILAB underground experience (seeing military personnel). It is also important to note that some abductees have flashbacks and they remember aliens and military personnel together, but during hypnosis the abductee remembers only the military personnel [15, 37]. It is possible the abductee mixed an alien abduction experience and a MILAB scenario, or that the abductee underwent some kind of hypno-programming by military psychiatrists during the MILAB. It is also possible that the military is using Electronic Dissolution of Memory (EDOM). This is accomplished by electronically jamming the brain, causing the neurotransmitter acetylcholine to create static which blocks out sight and sounds. After this mind control procedure a MILAB abductee would have no memory of what he or she saw or heard. The mind of the abductee would be blank [2, 19, 25]. VII. Discussion We must consider the possibility that some of the information we are getting from MILAB abductees may be cover stories, induced by the hypno-programming processes of military psychiatrists. There is also the possibility that the military uses rubber alien masks and special effects during a MILAB. MILAB abductee Katharina Wilson reports flashbacks where she remembered holding a rubber mask of an alien head in her hands [16]. Facts such as these lead some mind control researchers to believe that all alien abductees are used in secret mind control and/or genetic experiments staged by a powerful black arm of the United States government [2]. However, I have found some arguments against this over generalization: 1.) If all alien abductions are a cover for secret mind control or genetic experiments like the Lebensborn Project of the Nazis [38], why have abductees only reported military intelligence involvement since the early eighties and not before? We should see the opposite of this, since the mind control technology would be much better in the nineties than it was during the sixties and seventies! 2.) Why are there mind control victims who are implanted and used for secret weapons tests, but have nothing to do with the UFO phenomenon or alien abductions? It seems to me that the "mind control agenda" does not need UFO abductions as a cover story, since nobody believes the claims of ordinary mind control victims in the first place, although they have X-rays where everyone can see anomalous objects in their heads. 3.) If all alien abductions are a cover for mind control experiments, why does the military perform gynecological examinations of female abductees? Serious researchers should investigate all possibilities. Some UFO abductees may indeed be mind control victims or they may have been used in black-ops genetic experiments from the eighties or earlier. However, I think there is another motive that is more plausible for the military's involvement in the UFO abduction phenomenon. My preliminary hypothesis for alleged military kidnappings of UFO abductees is as follows: MILABs could be evidence that a secret military intelligence task force has been operating in North America since the early eighties, and is involved in the monitoring and kidnapping of alleged UFO abductees. In the early 1980s, a lot of money became available for top secret military projects like the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI). I believe this secret task force may be financed by a portion of this money that is set aside for SDI. It is no coincidence that the genesis of SDI and the reports of military intelligence personnel interfering with abductees coincide with one another. It seems to me that they are interested in well investigated abduction cases. They monitor the houses of their victims, kidnap and possibly implant them with military devices shortly after a UFO abduction experience. It appears to me that they are searching for possible alien implants as well. Their gynecological interest in female abductees could be explained if they are searching for alleged alien-hybrid embryos. One thing I'm sure of is, this task force and the people who are behind these kidnappings are using advanced mind control technology which is currently being tested illegally on individuals who have nothing to do with UFO abductions. Victims and researchers who are interested in this study or have important information they wish to share can contact me at the following address: Dr. Helmut Lammer Postfach 76 A-8600 Bruck/Mur Austria Email: lammerh@bkfug.kfunigraz.ac.at Dr. Lammer is a scientist with the Austrian Space Research Institute. He is the Austrian representative for the Mutual UFO Network and a member of the Society for Scientific Exploration, SSE. Dr. Lammer has co-authored two previous books with Oliver Sidla. They are UFO Secrecy (Herbig: Munich, 1995) and UFO Close Encounters (Herbig: Munich, 1996). The previous information covering "Project MILAB" is a sample of the information that is contained in his third book which is scheduled to be published in the Autumn of 1997. His current working title is Covert Operations: Military Involvement in Mind Control Experiments and UFO Abductions. Notes: [1] Pritchard, E., David, and Mack, E., John: Alien Discussions: Proceedings of the Abduction Study Conference held at MIT. Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1994. [2] Cannon, Martin: The Controllers: A new Hypothesis of Alien Abductions. http://members.gnn.com/fivestring/idex.htm, (Archives Section), 1989. [3] Personal Communications with Professor David Jacobs, 1996. [4] Bullard, Thomas E.: UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery. Volume 1: Comparative Study of Abduction Reports. Bloomington, Indiana, 1987. [5] Bullard, E., Thomas: UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery. Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases. Bloomington, Indiana, 1987. [6] Wright, R., Dan: Commonalities & Disparities: Findings of the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project. MUFON International UFO Symposium Proceedings, 1995. [7] Personal Communications with Dan Wright, head of the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project, 1996. [8] Adams, Tom: Mystery Helicopters. Paris, Texas, 1993. [9] Howe, L., Moulton: Glimpses of Other Realities. Volume. 1: Facts and Eyewitnesses. Linda Moulton Howe Productions, P.O. Box 538, Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania 19006, 1993. [10] Keith, Jim: Black Helicopters over America-Strikeforce for the New World Order. IllumiNet Press, Linburn, Georgia, 1994. [11] Personal Communications with Raymond Fowler and several publications like: Casebook of a UFO Investigator. Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey, Prentice Hall Inc., 1981. [12] Clarke, David, and Watson, Nigel: Phantom Helicopters over Britain. Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR), P.O. Box 277, Mount Rainer, Maryland 20712, USA. [13] Jordan, Debbie, and Mitchell, Abducted: The Story of the Intruders Continue. Carroll & Graf, New York, 1994. [14] Strieber, Whitley: Breakthrough-The Next Step. HarperCollins, New York, 1995. [15] Haley, A., Leah: Lost was the Key. Greenleaf Publications, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, 1993. [16] Wilson, Katharina: The Alien Jigsaw. Puzzle Publishing, Portland, Oregon, 1993. [17] Collins, Beth, and Jamerson, Anna: Connections-Solving our Alien Abduction Mystery. Wild Flower Press, Newberg, Oregon, 1996. [18] Fowler, Raymond: The Andreasson Affair Phase Two. Englewood Cliffs, New York, Prentice-Hall, 1982. [19] Wilson, Katharina: Project Open Mind: Are Some Alien Abductions Government Mind Control Experiments? http://www.alienjigsaw.com, 1996. [20] Turner, Karla: Into the Fringe, Berkley Book, New York, 1992; and Taken: Inside the Alien-Human Abduction Agenda, Kelt Works, Roland Arkansas, 1994; [21] Electronic ID in Horses. Electronic ID, Inc., 131 East Exchange Avenue, Suite 116, Fort Worth, Texas 76106, USA. [22] Laugesen, Wayne: Satan's Leash: The Specter of Biometric Identification. Encounter Chronicles, Issue 17, September 1996. [23] Jutter, C., Dean, Wen, H., Ko., Spear, M., Thomas, Mackay, Stuart: Biomedical Telemetry. Engineering in Medicine and Biology Magazine, March, 1993. [24] Metz, Steven, and Kievit, James: The Revolution in Military Affairs and Conflict Short of War. Strategic Studies Institute, US Army War College, Juli 1994. [25] Bowart, H., Walter: Operation Mind Control: Our Secret Government's War Against its Own People. Dell Publishing Company, New York, 1978. [26] Private communication with Robert Naeslund and: Naeslund, Robert: Letter to Prime Minister Carl Bildt, Stockholm, November 19, 1992. [27] Lindquist, Lennart, Taylor, Evamarie, Naeslund Robert: Cybergods. Gruppen, Stockholm, Sweden, 1996. [28] Hardy, J.: Transsphenoidal Hypophysectomy. J. Neurosurg., Vol. 34, page 582-594, 1971. [29] Griffith, H., B., et al.: A direct transnasal approach to the Spenoid Sinus. Technical note, J. Neurosurg, Vol. 66, page 920-924, 1987. [30] Rabadan, A., et al.: Transmaxillary, Transnasal Approach to the Anterior Clivus: A Microsurgical Anatomical Model. Neurosurgery, 30(4), page 473-482, 1992. [31] Rosenfeld, J., V.: Transnasal Stereotactic Biopsy of a Clivus Tumor. J. Neurosurg, Vol. 76(5), page 878-879, 1992. [32] Private communications with alleged mind control victims. [33] New World Visitas: Air and Space Power for the 21st Century. USAF Scientific Advisory Board, June, 1996. [34] Guyatt, David: Some Aspects of Anti-Personnel Electromagnetic Weapons. Earthpulse Flashpoints, Nr. 2, 1996. [35] Constantine, Alex: Psychic Dictatorship in the USA. Feral House, Portland, Oregon, 1995. [36] Sauder, Richard: Underground Bases and Tunnels-What is the Government Trying to Hide? Dracon Press, 1995. [37] Hamilton, F., William III: Alien Magic: UFO Crashes-Abductions-Underground Bases, Global Communications, page: 104-106, 1996. [38] Clay, Catrine, and Leapman, Michael: Master Race-The Lebensborn Experiment in NAZI Germany. Acknowledgements: Walter Andrus (MUFON), Brian Bard, Keith Basterfield, Dr. Richard Boylan, John Carpenter, Dr. Aphrodite Clamar, Padrick J. Delaney (IUFOPRA), Ann Druffel, Prof. David Jacobs, Dr. William E. Jones, Raymond Fowler, Harlan Girard, David Guyatt, Leah Haley, Cindia Hind, Richard Hall (FUFOR), Dr. James Harder, Edmund Light, G. Mackay, Philip Mantle (BUFORA), Dr. Gilda Moura, Robert Naeslund (Gruppen), Dr. Richard Sauder, Derrel Sims, Barbara Spellerberg, Dr. Leo Sprinkle, the late Dr. Karla Turner, Katharina Wilson, Dan Wright head of the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project, and my wife Marion for their help in his project and all the other victims and researchers who participated in this study. ---------------------------------------------------------------- _1996 by Helmut Lammer, Ph.D. All Rights Reserved. The preceding is reproduced with permission of the Author. Permission is given to reproduce and redistribute in printed form, for non-commercial purposes only, provided the information and the copy remain intact and unedited.=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Roswell - 'The Glenn Dennis 'Story'.' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:08:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:08:46 -0500 Subject: Roswell - 'The Glenn Dennis 'Story'.' ebk ------------------------------- Subj: The Glenn Dennis story Date: 97-01-08 18:38:38 EST From: Ktperehwon ----- -- On January 6, I wrote to Glenn Dennis, telling him my conclusions about his story and reminding him I'm honor-bound to share this information with my colleagues. You and the other addressees are free to do with this material what you will. <BTW, I'm sure you noted "my" error in spelling Jason Kellahin's name. I was ref'ing the ABQ. JOURNAL obit at the time. Happily, the AP got it right, in a much better obit which ran in the ABQ. TRIBUNE.> Now then, re Glenn Dennis's story and Roswell in general: "[Glenn:...] I think you need to know my current views on the Roswell case in general and your story in particular. The first is easy: Based on my research and that of others, I'm as certain as it's possible to be without absolute proof that no flying saucer or saucers crashed in the general vicinity of Roswell or on the Plains of San Agustin in 1947. The debris found by Mac Brazel and brought to the Roswell air base by Brazel, Major Marcel, and others was the remains of something very earthly, all but certainly something from the Top Secret Project Mogul. "The recollections of the real Roswell witnesses and those involved with Mogul and the 1947 press accounts, official records having to do with Mogul, and weather data from the time support the conclusion that what Brazel found was from Mogul and that he found it in mid-June, not early July. The formerly highly classified record of correspondence and discussions among top Air Force officials who were responsible for cracking the flying saucer mystery from the mid-1940s through the early 1950s makes it crystal clear not only that they didn't have any crashed-saucer wreckage or bodies of saucer crews, but that they were desperate to have such evidence and tearing their hair out because they didn't. "The other part--your story--is, well, another story. Please understand what follows is from friend to friend, even though what I have to say calls into question much of what you have told me and others about your experiences.... Here's what I think and why-- "I believe you were called by the base mortuary officer as you say you were, but I think the calls had nothing to do with the bodies that were at the base hospital when you showed up there. Moreover, they probably didn't come in on the day you got into a fix at the hospital. As for the strange bodies, I believe there were bodies, but they had nothing to do with what Brazel found or anything from another planet, regardless of who found it and where. In fact, I now think it very likely what happened to you did not happen when you now recall it did--more likely, it was a year or two later. Finally, while I still believe there was an army nurse who was your friend, who got mixed up in the examination of the bodies, and who later told you about it, I no longer believe she mysteriously disappeared or had a name anything like Naomi Selff--and I don't think you do either. "The calls. Newspaper accounts and other material turned up by a military historian reveal that, during the summer of 1947, there was a polio epidemic among the dependent children living in base housing on Roswell Army Air Field. Apparently, army authorities feared a panic among the civilian population and so kept the lid on the situation until months later. It seems likely to me the calls you got had to do with contingency plans should any of the kids on the base die. As you have related, your caller told you both times the army needed the information for future reference. "The bodies. I think they were from some sort of accident, probably a plane crash, which involved an intense fire, and which the army was concerned to keep quiet--or at least completely under military control until an investigation could be completed. Without revealing their connection to Roswell, UFOs, etc., a colleague of mine showed your sketches to an M.D. who is an expert in aircraft-crash trauma. The expert's first words were, 'What crash are these from?' He said they had all the earmarks of bodies subject to crash trauma and intense fire. "Records turned up by the military historian mentioned above and others show a fully loaded B-29 crashed on takeoff from what was by then Walker Air Force Base in, if I recall correctly, 1949. I believe the plane clipped a water tower or some other structure and crashed inside the base perimeter. All 13 (?) aboard were killed and very badly burned. The Air Force goes bananas when such things happen, and rightly so. They clamp down a tight lid of secrecy and conduct a very careful investigation. It's also a very emotional situation, often with the officers and others in charge having lost friends in the accident. "It's also possible the accident involved a highly classified program of some type, perhaps some activity which went beyond authorized limits and/or involved German scientists and technicians who, at that time, were illegally in the United States and working for the army. Several such activities involving such folks were going on in New Mexico at the time. In any case, what happened to you didn't require a crashed flying saucer. While it's true the military authorities seem to have exceeded proper bounds, I don't find it inconsistent with something like what I've outlined above. "The nurse. I think she was one of the five nurses assigned to the base at the time (those pictured in the base yearbook) and, if what happened to you did happen when you think it did, she was one of the four who were on the base at the time (the fifth was on leave). An Air Force investigator and a private researcher have located the hospital morning reports and other hospital personnel records for the entirety of 1947, showing who was on duty and when, etc. They've also identified all the nurses who were assigned to the base during that year and when they were assigned there and transferred out. Another private researcher located and interviewed the one surviving nurse of the five, whose name was McManus in July 1947 (she died not long ago). "Many researchers, including Yours Truly, have done a lot of digging to find some trace of 'Naomi' and the plane crash in which she is alleged to have died. One private researcher has established that David Wagnon and the other former base-hospital technician who say they remember your nurse are actually remembering one of the five who appear in the yearbook. There is no record (military or civilian) of and no one interviewed remembers anyone named anything like Naomi Selff or of a crash in which several nurses were killed. There is no record or reliable recollection of any abrupt transfer of any member of the base-hospital nursing staff or of any mysterious activity at the hospital--including an order for regular staff not to report for duty--in early July '47; this includes the recollections of the man who commanded the hospital at the time. "The simple truth is, no matter how efficient and far-reaching a group of cover-up conspirators might be, there is absolutely no way they could possibly have eliminated all record and recollection of 'Naomi.' She simply didn't exist, Glenn. "So what do I think is the truth? When you were approached by Stan Friedman in 1989 in his usual fashion, with leading questions and set-up lines ('I'm investigating the 1947 crash of a flying saucer and the discovery of the bodies of its crew, and I've been told you were involved.' Etc.) and his advance 'packet of information' about himself and what supposedly happened near Roswell (which we know from your interview with Friedman you read before the interview), I believe you got to thinking: 'Hmm. You know, there was that time I got into trouble at the base hospital, that time my friend who was a nurse there got so shook up... I wonder if it had anything to do with that?' Then you quite honestly told this to Friedman and, realizing you had nothing to back up the story, you decided to mention both 'the pediatrician' and the nurse, giving a false name for the latter (Naomi Self--one "f" at the time of the interview with Friedman) because you and she had been a bit more than friends and you were married at the time. Why? Because if she were still alive, you wanted to protect her from scandal. [Note to colleagues: It is entirely possible the nurse is 100% fiction, but having gotten to know Glenn as well as I do, I think the above scenario to be much more likely.] "Since then, naturally, you spent a fair amount of time trying to recall more details and fill in the blanks. Through the fog of many years, unrelated events became part of the story and you recalled or thought you recalled many more 'interesting' details and made 'adjustments' to your story (like seeing the newspaper headline about the crashed saucer just hours after meeting with the nurse). As people began to question your story, you quite naturally tried to come up with people who could provide supporting testimony and, both consciously and unconsciously, embellished your story. "Glenn, I think you got into this whole business quite honestly, sincerely trying to help Friedman and others with their investigations. At some point, you probably began to realize what you recalled probably had nothing to do with a flying saucer crash, but you thought you were in too deep to say so. So you've just stuck with your story, always being careful to say you really have no idea what it was you got mixed up in, in 1947. What started out as an honest attempt to recall events you thought might be connected with a crashed flying saucer story got out of hand, grew into a tall tale, and became part of the Roswell myth, which now is more 'real' to thousands than the facts of the case." -- My reference to why Glenn mentioned the nurse in my "So what do I think is the truth?" paragraph is poorly phrased. What I was thinking of as I typed rather hastily was the question of why Glenn decided to GO INTO SOME DETAIL about the nurse. Obviously, it was necessary for Glenn to mention her, since it was she who was directly involved with the bodies, not Glenn. Now back to paying work.... -- KARL
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Human Mutilations From: Mark Hunziker <wizseeker@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:22:19 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:58:08 -0500 Subject: Human Mutilations In further interest to Don Ecker's reports... Dear Don, Story#1 It was in Las Vegas in July, 1989 during the MUFON conference where I originally heard you speak. You were part of a special Sunday morning consortium of speakers which John Lear opened. During this special four-speaker session, a man by the name of Bill English spoke. During his presentation he shared his involvement with regard to a missing B-52 Bomber that went down under mysterious conditions in the jungles of Vietnam while he was stationed there. I will share what I remember as best as I can. I believe this part of his story took place around 1967. This mission was classified in advance as the aircraft had gone down under very strange circumstances Bill was a military photographer. He and several other servicemen were called out on special assignment to investigate this B-52 crash and were airlifted by helicopter to the site. When they arrived they were first surprised to find that the bomber had left no path of destruction where it had gone down. There was no burned or knocked down trees. When they landed to inspect the aircraft Bill and the team were flabbergasted to find that the aircraft was completely undamaged, including the engines and engine pods which would normally be ripped off by a crashing aircraft. This huge American bomber looked like it had been lowered into the jungle and set down very gently. The real surprise came when they entered the cabin. The crew of this bomber(I think he said four) all still sat in the cockpit with their seat belts fastened but the pilots and crew were all mutilated with the typically mysterious wounds and missing flesh we so often read about. Bill claimed that the bodies were removed and inspected and that though these pilots had been seated in there jump seats, some had even had their rectums cored. The investigation was completed along with photographs taken, then they were ordered to torch and destroy the aircraft and bodies. Story#2 In February of 1979 I became a Flight Attendant for Eastern Airlines(bankrupted 1991). During my 12 years with them I had many occasions to sit in the flight deck(cockpit) and talk to the pilots about many subjects. It was early in my career at Eastern that I was to hear an interesting story told by a second officer on the Boeing 727. I would say he told me this story in early 1980. I don't remember much of the detail, only the flavor. This 727 navigator/pilot was a fighter pilot in the service(I don't remember which branch). I don't think he mentioned the year that this took place. He claimed that he often flew with his best friend and that on a particular day/night he and his best friend were scrambled to give chase to an unidentified target on radar. He and his buddy soon achieved altitude and made their way to the assigned target. They both gave chase to what he referred to as a UFO. (Unfortunately, at the time I was not an investigator so I didn't inquire into details about the craft). They were in continuous radio contact with their superiors on the ground and it wasn't long into their two way radio description with the CO that the CO ordered the best friend to pursue at close range and shoot to kill(an openly hostile and aggressive order considering the story being related). This second officer went on to say that he watched as his best friend went in as ordered, closer and as his friend went to fire on the UFO, he watched his best friend's jet blow up directly in front of him. When he reported the event to his command, they ordered him to also pursue and shoot to kill. This pilot cynically laughed as he told the story to me of how he refused that order and what he told them they could do with their airplane. He returned to the base and he says he was subsequently discharged. He related it was better to be a live chicken than a dead duck any day. He was more noticeably upset about having lost his best friend in the incident. I am a former MUFON State Section Director for Broward and Palm Beach Counties, Florida(8 years). Over the past 15 years I've studied many cases and read many books. I think that these two stories give rise to a line of questioning when viewed within the context of your own research. Yes, it seems that there is some killing going on... but who's doing the aggressing and is that the causation giving rise to such events as human mutilations? If so, are humans collectively held responsible for the aggressive actions of the few who cut violent orders? Because I pay tax dollars into the Military/Industrial Complex... Am I seen by outside civilizations as part of the human herd that is making an evil empire possible through collective fear? It seems likely to me that however motivated these outsiders might be, they certainly have had the technological know-how to have easily destroyed us long ago. Could it be that behind the barriers of government secrecy, there may be a few human beings, with the best of our technologies have to offer, who play with pilots lives like bullets in a gun? Who makes the decision in the military to go in at close range and shoot to kill and for what reason? Why shoot at all? Do we want someone else's technology so badly that we'll kill to get it? I think so. We've seen this behavior before. We see this same human behavior play out in our lives every day. What makes those of us who hold high secrets virtuous from the same greedy motives. My guess is there is a warning in the cosmos to visit Earth at your own risk and if travel you must, never let down your guard. Each human bumbles his awareness of personal responsibility for his actions. Some are spiritually enlightened in their knowledge of relationships and natural laws but most humans are deficient, unaware and maybe even sleeping. Be especially wary of those who are advancing in technology for they randomly become more and more dangerous. Bob Oechlar's wrote this when he resigned from Ufology in 1994. "My final opinion is that there is no mystery to the UFO phenomenon, the real mystery involves the sociology of how it affects and polarizes those drawn to it." Those who are "drawn to it(UFOs)" rise within hierarchy into unseen and powerful places where the mysteries are observed with little or no obfuscation. Until the mystery is shared with humanity one and all we'll remain in constant danger from the unknown motives of a few humans who "desire something" from whomever for whatever reason. It is disturbing to be more distrusting of my fellow man than I am any outsider. We have as much to learn about control dramas as we ever did. This secrecy amongst us is definitely polarizing us which might ultimately cause another violent revolution. It will be those at the top of the hierarchy that will need to examine and rectify the situation before it happens. I'm not so optimistic that these secret-keepers are smart enough to figure this out. Secrets are our enemy. Mark Hunziker ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 The Rockefeller Report From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 97 09:13:23 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 21:15:55 -0500 Subject: The Rockefeller Report Dear Colleague, I am trying to locate a copy of the so-called 'Rockefeller Report' on UFO's that was sent to various governmental agencies etc in l996. Can you possibly supply me with a copy ? Any assistance with this request would be greatly appreciated. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle. 1 Woodhall Drive, Batley, West Yorkshire, England, WFl7 7SW. Tele/Fax: 01924 444049. E-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: 'Alien' Writing From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 01:04:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 21:14:40 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Writing > Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 07:14:45 -0500 > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing > > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Alien' Writing > > > If the symbology is as simple as you suggest then I > > > absolutely guarantee that modern cryptographic analysis could decode > > > it. > > Would you explain further, John? > > I don't think I can explain further, except that the simpler the > symbology the easier it is for cryptographic analysts to decipher it. > > The part that stumps me is what cryptographers could compare the > > symbols to. Are they letters in an alphabet? Do they stand for > > concepts, somewhat as Chinese pictographs do? Are they something > > scientific or mathematical, like symbolic logic or the symbols of > > organic chemistry? > I have no idea how those folks do what they do. I read a book on > cryptographic analysis once and after the first chapter it made no sense > to me at all <grin>. > > Lacking that knowledge, how does a cryptographer proceed? Especially > > since -- assuming for a moment that the symbols are truly alien -- we > > know nothing of the alien culture or thought processes. It's not as if > > we have a Rosetta stone -- something in a language we know that says > > the same thing. > > What would a cryptographer look for? > I dunno... But they've broken every code every enemy (and others) has > used since before WWII... Hi, One time pads are not known to have been broken also there are some codes said to be based on quantum effects. There are several human written languages which have not been decipered, for example the written rongo-rongo of Easter Island. Knowledge of this language was lost in historical times and to the best of my knowledge and visit to Easter Island has not be rediscovered to date. Donald Menzel a man of many skills was a cryptanalyst involved with deciphering Japanese wartime codes, you may also not know that he designed a space suit which was on exhibit at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. when I visited a few years ago. The Puzzle Palace by James Bamford discusses some of the history and role of the National Security Agency, NSA one of the main providers of cryptanalysis for our government and military services. Scientific American infrequently publishes articles on cryptanalysis. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 The Literary Genius of Mr Mantle From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:32:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 21:19:31 -0500 Subject: The Literary Genius of Mr Mantle > Date: 24 Nov 96 23:34:52 EST > Subject: The Literary Genius of Mr Mantle > from Sharon and Tracey, Harlow, Essex > WITHOUT COMPREHENSION > review of > WITHOUT CONSENT > A Comprehensive Survey of Missing-Time > and Abduction Phenomena in the UK > Carl Nagaitis and Philip Mantle > Ringpull Press L16.99 > > I am glad I am not a fir tree. [...] > [...] Absolutely fabulous [pun intended] review. But enough backslapping, what can one say about lines like this? "Our authors [Carl Nagaitis and Philip Mantle] show no self-consciousness at their inability to fall about with squeals of girlish laughter at this waggish drivel." Scully inquired of Mulder: "Are you sure it wasn't a girlie scream?" Anyway, below-attached is the Roper report (which helps slightly to legitimise this message <grin>) in case anybody wants to check it out. -- Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) _Unusual Personal Experiences: Analysis of the Data from Three National Surveys Conducted by the Roper Organization_, (1992, Bigelow Holding Corporation, 4640 South Eastern, Las Vegas, NV 89119) [The Roper Organization, 205 East 42nd St., New York, NY 10017] "We did not fund this project for profit from sale of materials, nor for any monetary gain, media involvement or publicity..." - Robert Bigelow How Often Has Occurrence Happenned To You? [1] ------------------------------------------ Summary List I -------------- ______________ [2] / Survey Date \ / ------------- \ Total Jul Aug Sep ----- ----- ----- ----- (5,947) (1,992) (1,983) (1,973) % % % % 4) Waking up paralyzed with a sense of a strange person or presence or something else in the room? Has happenned 18 20 17 17 More than once (a) 5 6 4 5 Once or twice (b) 13 14 13 12 Has not happenned (c) 81 79 82 83 Don't know (d) 1 1 1 * 10 Having seen, either as a child or as an adult, a terrifying figure - which might have been a monster, a witch, a devil, or some other evil figure in your bedroom, closet, or somewhere else. Has happenned 15 17 14 13 More than once 4 5 3 3 Once or twice 11 12 11 10 Has not happenned 84 83 85 86 Don't know 1 1 2 1 2) Feeling as if you left your body. Has happenned 14 17 12 12 More than once 4 5 3 3 Once or twice 10 12 9 9 Has not happenned 85 82 86 87 Don't know 1 1 1 1 7) Experiencing a period of time of an hour or more, in which you were apparently lost, but you could not remember why, or where you had been. Has happenned 13 15 11 12 More than once 4 4 2 3 Once or twice 10 11 9 9 Has not happenned 85 84 88 88 Don't know 1 1 1 1 1) Seeing a ghost. Has happenned 11 13 10 10 More than once 3 4 2 3 Once or twice 8 9 8 7 Has not happenned 88 86 88 89 Don't know 1 1 1 1 5) Feeling that you were actually flying through the air although you didn't know why or how. Has happenned 10 12 9 11 More than once 3 4 2 4 Once or twice 7 8 7 7 Has not happenned 88 87 89 89 Don't know 1 1 1 * 8) Seen unusual lights or balls of light in a room without knowing what was causing them, or where they came from. Has happenned 8 10 6 8 More than once 2 2 1 2 Once or twice 6 8 5 6 Has not happenned 91 90 92 92 Don't know 1 1 1 * 9) Finding puzzling scars on your body and neither you nor anyone else remembering how you received them or where you got them. Has happenned 8 9 7 8 More than once 2 2 2 3 Once or twice 6 7 5 5 Has not happenned 91 90 92 92 Don't know 1 1 1 * 3) Seeing a UFO. Has happenned 7 9 7 6 More than once 1 2 1 1 Once or twice 6 7 6 5 Has not happenned 92 90 92 91 Don't know 1 1 1 1 11) Having vivid dreams about UFOs. Has happenned 5 6 4 5 More than once 1 2 1 1 Once or twice 4 4 3 4 Has not happenned 94 93 95 95 Don't know 1 1 1 1 6) Hearing or seeing the word TRONDANT and knowing that it has a secret meaning for you. [3] Has happenned 1 2 1 1 More than once * * * * Once or twice 1 1 1 1 Has not happenned 97 96 97 998 Don't know 2 3 2 1 * - indicates less than 0.5% -------------------------- Summary List II --------------- How Often Has Occurrence Happenned To You? ------------------------------------------ PSA(s)/ - [4] Influential Total Americans ----- ----------- (5,947) (565) % % 4) Waking up paralyzed with a sense of a strange person or presence or something else in the room? Has happenned 18 28 More than once 5 9 Once or twice 13 19 Has not happenned 81 72 Don't know 1 * 10) Having seen, either as a child or as an adult, a terrifying figure - which might have been a monster, a witch, a devil, or some other evil figure in your bedroom, closet, or somewhere else. Has happenned 15 19 More than once 4 4 Once or twice 11 15 Has not happenned 84 81 Don't know 1 1 2) Feeling as if you left your body. Has happenned 14 23 More than once 4 7 Once or twice 10 16 Has not happenned 85 76 Don't know 1 * 7) Experiencing a period of time of an hour or more, in which you were apparently lost, but you could not remember why, or where you had been. Has happenned 13 17 More than once 4 4 Once or twice 10 13 Has not happenned 85 82 Don't know 1 * 1) Seeing a ghost. Has happenned 11 16 More than once 3 5 Once or twice 8 11 Has not happenned 88 84 Don't know 1 1 5) Feeling that you were actually flying through the air although you didn't know why or how. Has happenned 10 18 More than once 3 8 Once or twice 7 10 Has not happenned 88 81 Don't know 1 1 8) Seen unusual lights or balls of light in a room without knowing what was causing them, or where they came from. Has happenned 8 11 More than once 2 8 Once or twice 6 3 Has not happenned 91 89 Don't know 1 * 9) Finding puzzling scars on your body and neither you nor anyone else remembering how you received them or where you got them. Has happenned 8 9 More than once 2 3 Once or twice 6 6 Has not happenned 91 91 Don't know 1 * 3) Seeing a UFO. Has happenned 7 10 More than once 1 1 Once or twice 6 9 Has not happenned 92 89 Don't know 1 1 11) Having vivid dreams about UFOs. Has happenned 5 6 More than once 1 1 Once or twice 4 5 Has not happenned 94 93 Don't know 1 1 6) Hearing or seeing the word TRONDANT and knowing that it has a secret meaning for you. Has happenned 1 2 More than once * 1 Once or twice 1 1 Has not happenned 97 97 Don't know 2 2 * - indicates less than 0.5% -------------------------- Demographic Data - Card 1, Part 1 [5] --------------------------------- Household Income Education Sex Age ------------------- ------------------- --------- ------------------- 15M 30M Non- Fe- 18- 30- 45- Und Und Und HS HS Some Coll Totl Male male 29 44 59 60+ 15M 30M 50M 50M+ Grad Grad Coll Grad ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== T# 5947 2825 3122 1539 1916 1172 1321 1034 1455 1388 836 1186 2194 1389 1164 %# 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% Q# --- 1a 188 72 116 48 69 44 27 39 50 47 17 52 66 37 34 3% 3% 4% 3% 4% 4% 2% 4% 3% 3% 2% 4% 3% 3% 3% 1b 488 229 259 164 163 95 67 105 123 137 56 121 161 128 77 8% 8% 8% 11% 8% 8% 5% 10% 8% 10% 7% 10% 7% 9% 7% 1c 5225 2506 2720 1313 1673 1023 1216 880 1270 1199 760 1004 1945 1218 1049 88% 89% 87% 85% 87% 87% 92% 85% 87% 86% 91% 85% 89% 88% 90% 1d 45 18 28 14 11 10 10 10 13 5 3 9 23 7 5 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 1% 1% * * 2a 210 98 112 48 87 51 24 37 44 64 33 32 55 60 63 4% 3% 4% 3% 5% 4% 2% 4% 3% 5% 4% 3% 3% 4% 5% 2b 610 299 311 156 237 125 93 106 143 148 109 102 203 172 133 10% 11% 10% 10% 12% 11% 7% 10% 10% 11% 13% 9% 9% 12% 11% 2c 5066 2404 2662 1320 1576 983 1187 879 1252 1165 688 1040 1909 1148 957 85% 85% 85% 86% 82% 84% 90% 85% 86% 84% 82% 88% 87% 83% 82% 2d 60 23 37 15 15 14 16 12 17 10 7 12 27 9 11 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 3a 65 41 24 17 31 11 6 14 13 23 7 14 24 19 8 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% * 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 3b 366 201 165 98 147 74 47 57 93 105 54 54 142 99 71 6% 7% 5% 6% 8% 6% 4% 5% 6% 8% 6% 5% 6% 7% 6% 3c 5447 2546 2901 1406 1716 1069 1256 949 1328 1246 770 1105 1996 1257 1079 92% 90% 93% 91% 90% 91% 95% 92% 91% 90% 92% 93% 91% 90% 93% 3d 69 37 32 18 22 17 12 14 21 13 5 13 33 15 6 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 4a 301 119 183 89 129 57 28 65 71 81 47 49 105 75 72 5% 4% 6% 6% 7% 5% 2% 6% 5% 6% 6% 4% 5% 5% 6% 4b 773 342 431 253 273 137 109 162 197 198 102 156 278 193 143 13% 12% 14% 16% 14% 12% 8% 16% 14% 14% 12% 13% 13% 14% 12% 4c 4833 2344 2489 1186 1505 968 1174 800 1178 1097 684 976 1788 1116 944 81% 83% 80% 77% 79% 83% 89% 77% 81% 79% 82% 82% 81% 80% 81% 4d 40 20 20 11 9 10 9 7 10 12 3 5 23 5 5 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 1% * * 5a 201 116 85 34 89 40 38 32 31 57 41 37 62 49 64 3% 4% 3% 2% 5% 3% 3% 3% 2% 4% 5% 2% 3% 4% 5% 5b 442 235 207 135 158 82 66 79 103 125 67 69 163 119 91 7% 8% 7% 9% 8% 7% 5% 8% 7% 9% 8% 6% 7% 9% 8% 5c 5256 2453 2803 1354 1658 1037 1207 913 1307 1196 725 1080 1946 1214 1004 88% 87% 90% 88% 87% 88% 91% 88% 90% 86% 87% 91% 89% 87% 86% 5d 49 21 27 16 11 12 9 10 15 10 2 10 24 8 6 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 6a 18 9 9 2 9 4 3 3 6 9 1 2 4 9 3 * * * * * * * * * 1% * * * 1% * 6b 53 33 20 15 22 9 7 14 10 17 4 13 23 13 5 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 6c 5754 2730 3024 1485 1854 1139 1276 979 1410 1342 819 1142 2111 1349 1141 97% 97% 97% 96% 97% 97% 97% 95% 97% 97% 98% 96% 96% 97% 98% 6d 122 53 69 37 32 20 34 38 30 20 12 29 56 19 16 2% 2% 2% 2% 2% 2% 3% 4% 2% 1% 1% 2% 3% 1% 1% 7a 171 93 78 49 65 29 28 45 36 44 22 42 59 38 32 3% 3% 3% 3% 3% 3% 2% 4% 2% 3% 3% 4% 3% 3% 3% 7b 578 305 273 173 186 112 107 114 145 127 79 134 222 130 92 10% 11% 9% 11% 10% 10% 8% 11% 10% 9% 9% 11% 10% 9% 8% 7c 5152 2408 2744 1304 1654 1020 1174 866 1256 1208 733 1002 1888 1214 1036 87% 85% 88% 85% 86% 87% 89% 84% 86% 87% 88% 84% 86% 87% 89% 7d 46 19 27 13 11 10 11 10 18 7 2 8 25 7 4 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% * 8a 102 54 48 40 38 15 9 23 30 24 12 16 48 27 11 2% 2% 2% 3% 2% 1% 1% 2% 2% 2% 1% 1% 2% 2% 1% 8b 374 162 212 128 126 70 50 62 98 95 48 94 128 92 60 6% 6% 7% 8% 7% 6% 4% 6% 7% 7% 6% 8% 6% 7% 5% 8c 5439 2594 2844 1363 1744 1078 1255 942 1317 1260 774 1072 2001 1265 1089 91% 92% 91% 89% 91% 92% 95% 91% 90% 91% 93% 90% 91% 91% 94% 8d 32 14 18 9 8 9 7 8 10 9 1 4 18 5 4 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% * 1% 1% 1% * * 1% * * 9a 146 70 75 62 43 21 20 32 35 37 17 32 51 42 20 2% 2% 2% 4% 2% 2% 1% 3% 2% 3% 2% 3% 2% 3% 2% 9b 327 165 162 147 103 46 32 67 85 86 40 74 125 80 49 6% 6% 5% 10% 5% 4% 2% 6% 6% 6% 5% 6% 6% 6% 4% 9c 5430 2573 2858 1318 1760 1092 1260 927 1319 1257 776 1070 1997 1261 1092 91% 91% 92% 86% 92% 93% 95% 90% 91% 91% 93% 90% 91% 91% 94% 9d 44 16 27 13 9 12 9 8 16 8 3 10 22 7 4 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% * * 10a 220 92 127 83 78 35 23 47 54 56 27 42 79 52 44 4% 3% 4% 5% 4% 3% 2% 5% 4% 4% 3% 4% 4% 4% 4% 10b 650 313 337 218 257 111 64 123 149 176 93 123 226 168 131 11% 11% 11% 14% 13% 9% 5% 12% 10% 13% 11% 10% 10% 12% 11% 10c5015 2386 2629 1221 1560 1012 1221 857 1235 1140 711 1015 1858 1158 977 84% 84% 84% 79% 81% 86% 92% 83% 85% 82% 85% 86% 85% 83% 84% 10d 62 33 29 16 20 13 13 6 17 16 5 6 31 11 12 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 11a 71 36 36 26 28 8 10 4 20 24 12 7 26 20 17 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 11b 220 140 80 78 88 36 17 33 48 68 28 30 80 70 40 4% 5% 3% 5% 5% 3% 1% 3% 3% 5% 3% 2% 4% 5% 3% 11c5604 2626 2978 1424 1784 1118 1278 981 1378 1284 791 1136 2068 1290 1099 94% 93% 95% 93% 93% 95% 97% 95% 95% 93% 95% 96% 94% 93% 94% 11d 52 23 29 12 16 10 14 16 10 12 6 12 21 10 8 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * - indicates less than 0.5% Demographic Data - Card 1, Part 2 --------------------------------- Marital Status Parents ------------------- of kids Married Unmarried Aged 0-17 --------- --------- --------- Both 0,1 Age Age Both 0,1 Work Work 44- 45+ Work Work ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== T# 1708 1803 1528 900 1014 1247 %# 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% Q# --- 1a 54 52 54 28 35 47 3% 3% 4% 3% 3% 4% 1b 136 133 155 65 84 119 8% 7% 10% 7% 8% 10% 1c 1507 1605 1306 799 887 1072 88% 89% 85% 89% 88% 86% 1d 11 13 13 8 8 9 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2a 66 37 74 33 40 39 4% 2% 5% 4% 4% 3% 2b 172 157 198 82 106 152 10% 9% 13% 9% 10% 12% 2c 1455 1594 1239 773 860 1045 85% 88% 81% 86% 85% 84% 2d 15 16 17 12 8 12 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 3a 19 15 24 7 12 15 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 3b 126 90 110 40 83 85 7% 5% 7% 4% 8% 7% 3c 1539 1679 1377 843 908 1132 90% 93% 90% 94% 90% 91% 3d 24 19 16 10 11 16 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 4a 95 61 112 35 63 84 6% 3% 7% 4% 6% 7% 4b 224 217 230 102 139 192 13% 12% 15% 11% 14% 15% 4c 1381 1512 1177 754 807 959 81% 84% 77% 84% 80% 77% 4d 8 13 9 9 5 12 * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 5a 72 54 48 27 45 44 4% 3% 3% 3% 4% 3% 5b 130 110 150 51 64 106 8% 6% 10% 6% 6% 9% 5c 1493 1624 1318 813 897 1084 87% 90% 86% 90% 89% 87% 5d 12 16 12 9 7 13 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 6a 4 7 5 2 4 2 * * * * * * 6b 18 10 20 6 10 12 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 6c 1652 1752 1468 874 984 1214 97% 97% 96% 97% 97% 97% 6d 34 35 35 18 16 19 2% 2% 2% 2% 2% 2% 7a 36 42 64 30 29 42 2% 2% 4% 3% 3% 3% 7b 173 141 181 83 106 114 10% 8% 12% 9% 10% 9% 7c 1491 1602 1273 778 875 1078 87% 89% 83% 86% 86% 86% 7d 8 18 10 9 4 13 * 1% 1% 1% * 1% 8a 24 24 43 10 19 23 1% 1% 3% 1% 2% 2% 8b 95 90 140 49 61 91 6% 5% 9% 5% 6% 7% 8c 1581 1677 1337 836 930 1124 93% 93% 87% 93% 92% 90% 8d 7 12 8 5 4 9 * 1% 1% 1% * 1% 9a 36 37 58 15 25 37 2% 2% 4% 2% 2% 3% 9b 86 73 145 23 50 84 5% 4% 9% 3% 5% 7% 9c 1573 1681 1315 853 932 1118 92% 93% 86% 95% 92% 90% 9d 12 12 10 10 7 8 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 10a 56 50 90 23 33 59 3% 3% 6% 3% 3% 5% 10b 202 153 216 79 138 154 12% 8% 14% 9% 14% 12% 10c1432 1585 1206 784 831 1021 84% 88% 79% 87% 82% 82% 10d 18 15 16 13 12 14 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 11a 28 12 26 5 16 4 2% 1% 2% 1% 2% * 11b 78 49 77 16 52 39 5% 3% 5% 2% 5% 3% 11c1592 1727 1407 870 940 1193 93% 96% 92% 97% 93% 96% 11d 10 15 17 9 6 11 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * - indicates less than 0.5% -------------------------- Demographic Data - Card 2, Part 1 --------------------------------- Political Political Race Geographic Area Market Size Affil Ideology ---- ------------------ ------------------ --------- --------- Totl Blck NE MW SO WST A B C D DEM REP CONS LIBL ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== T# 5947 675 1273 1498 1987 1189 2477 1827 888 756 2207 1696 2561 1101 %# 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% Q# --- 1a 188 29 19 40 73 56 83 61 32 12 77 43 67 45 3% 4% 1% 3% 4% 5% 3% 3% 4% 2% 3% 3% 3% 4% 1b 488 61 75 110 205 99 170 171 74 72 170 132 211 107 8% 9% 6% 7% 10% 8% 7% 9% 8% 10% 8% 8% 8% 10% 1c 5225 580 1169 1341 1693 1022 2206 1580 770 669 1947 1513 2267 939 88% 86% 92% 90% 85% 86% 89% 86% 87% 89% 88% 89% 88% 85% 1d 45 6 10 7 17 12 18 15 11 2 12 8 17 11 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% * 1% 1% 2a 210 30 32 35 74 69 88 64 36 22 81 45 81 62 4% 4% 3% 2% 4% 6% 4% 4% 4% 3% 4% 3% 3% 6% 2b 610 60 113 167 179 151 263 173 96 78 235 168 252 146 10% 9% 9% 11% 9% 13% 11% 9% 11% 10% 11% 10% 10% 13% 2c 5066 573 1124 1278 1714 950 2106 1564 745 651 1871 1472 2203 886 85% 85% 88% 85% 86% 80% 85% 86% 84% 86% 85% 87% 86% 81% 2d 60 11 4 18 19 19 20 26 10 5 20 10 25 7 1% 2% * 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 3a 65 4 14 18 21 12 24 21 8 13 25 13 27 17 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 2% 3b 366 20 69 105 117 76 128 95 83 60 129 119 160 73 6% 3% 5% 7% 6% 6% 5% 5% 9% 8% 6% 7% 6% 7% 3c 5447 642 1182 1356 1821 1087 2294 1691 787 674 2025 1552 2352 1002 92% 95% 93% 91% 92% 91% 93% 93% 89% 89% 92% 91% 92% 91% 3d 69 9 8 20 27 14 31 19 10 9 27 12 23 10 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 4a 302 37 33 62 113 94 119 109 40 35 117 80 114 88 5% 5% 3% 4% 6% 8% 5% 6% 4% 5% 5% 5% 4% 8% 4b 773 72 107 185 299 182 247 231 159 136 281 232 343 161 13% 11% 8% 12% 15% 15% 10% 13% 18% 18% 13% 14% 13% 15% 4c 4833 560 1126 1239 1566 901 2093 1477 682 581 1801 1378 2090 845 81% 83% 88% 83% 79% 76% 84% 81% 77% 77% 82% 81% 82% 77% 4d 40 6 7 12 9 11 19 9 7 4 8 7 13 7 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 1% 1% 5a 201 12 23 50 59 69 78 63 38 23 76 56 90 44 3% 2% 2% 3% 3% 6% 3% 3% 4% 3% 3% 3% 4% 4% 5b 442 39 70 135 124 113 191 130 80 40 152 114 176 96 7% 6% 6% 9% 6% 9% 8% 7% 9% 5% 7% 7% 7% 9% 5c 5256 618 1172 1303 1789 992 2191 1617 760 687 1966 1520 2277 957 88% 92% 92% 87% 90% 83% 88% 89% 86% 91% 89% 90% 89% 87% 5d 49 6 8 11 15 15 17 17 10 5 12 6 17 5 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% * 6a 18 1 1 2 9 6 12 3 2 1 6 7 6 5 * * * * * 1% * * * * * * * * 6b 53 10 5 14 28 6 34 5 9 5 16 20 25 11 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 6c 5754 657 1258 1433 1912 1151 2396 1779 842 738 2149 1634 2483 1059 97% 97% 99% 96% 96% 97% 97% 97% 95% 98% 97% 96% 97% 96% 6d 122 8 9 49 38 26 35 40 34 12 36 34 48 26 2% 1% 1% 3% 2% 2% 1% 2% 4% 2% 2% 2% 2% 2% 7a 171 27 27 46 59 39 67 55 31 19 57 37 63 49 3% 4% 2% 3% 3% 3% 3% 3% 3% 2% 3% 2% 2% 4% 7b 578 56 94 154 191 139 208 178 120 73 217 171 248 141 10% 8% 7% 10% 10% 12% 8% 10% 13% 10% 10% 10% 10% 13% 7c 5152 589 1144 1289 1718 1002 2187 1585 723 658 1923 1475 2226 906 87% 87% 90% 86% 86% 84% 88% 87% 81% 87% 87% 87% 87% 82% 7d 46 3 8 8 20 9 15 9 14 7 9 14 24 5 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 2% 1% * 1% 1% * 8a 102 23 12 27 39 24 49 21 16 15 36 24 34 33 2% 3% 1% 2% 2% 2% 2% 1% 2% 2% 2% 1% 1% 3% 8b 374 43 60 97 139 79 141 124 58 52 133 106 156 106 6% 6% 5% 6% 7% 7% 6% 7% 7% 7% 6% 6% 6% 10% 8c 5439 607 1197 1362 1800 1079 2277 1674 803 684 2034 1557 2355 959 91% 90% 94% 91% 91% 91% 92% 92% 90% 91% 92% 92% 92% 87% 8d 32 2 4 12 9 7 10 7 11 4 4 10 16 4 1% * * 1% * 1% * * 1% 1% * 1% 1% * 9a 146 31 27 24 63 32 52 49 27 18 53 33 58 46 2% 5% 2% 2% 3% 3% 2% 3% 3% 2% 2% 2% 2% 4% 9b 327 58 42 94 121 71 121 102 67 37 129 86 134 86 6% 9% 3% 6% 6% 6% 5% 6% 8% 5% 6% 5% 5% 8% 9c 5430 581 1196 1369 1792 1074 2289 1664 781 695 2016 1569 2356 963 91% 86% 94% 91% 90% 90% 92% 91% 88% 92% 91% 93% 92% 87% 9d 44 5 8 11 12 13 14 11 12 6 9 7 13 7 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 1% 1% 10a 220 24 24 51 75 70 101 73 24 22 73 64 73 60 4% 4% 2% 3% 4% 6% 4% 4% 3% 3% 3% 4% 3% 5% 10b 650 77 102 155 224 169 278 196 119 57 236 184 260 149 11% 11% 8% 10% 11% 14% 11% 11% 13% 8% 11% 11% 10% 14% 10c5015 566 1134 1276 1668 937 2066 1544 734 671 1880 1432 2202 881 84% 84% 89% 85% 84% 79% 83% 85% 83% 89% 85% 84% 86% 80% 10d 62 8 12 16 21 13 32 13 11 6 18 16 25 11 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 11a 71 8 14 16 29 12 38 19 10 4 28 23 23 23 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 11b 220 18 35 67 73 45 103 46 45 26 78 66 95 53 4% 3% 3% 4% 4% 4% 4% 3% 5% 3% 4% 4% 4% 5% 11c5604 645 1218 1397 1867 1122 2316 1750 818 720 2089 1592 2419 1018 94% 96% 96% 93% 94% 94% 94% 96% 92% 95% 95% 94% 94% 92% 11d 52 4 6 19 19 9 20 12 16 5 12 14 24 7 1% 1% * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * - indicates less than 0.5% Demographic Data - Card 2, Part 2 --------------------------------- Other Personal Demographics Occupation -------------- ------------------- Un- Pol/ Exec Whte Blue Home Empl ion Soc Prof Coll Coll Makr Fems Mbrs Actv ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== T# 1012 1029 1635 746 1641 566 565 %# 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% Q# --- 1a 24 35 50 29 66 26 27 2% 3% 3% 4% 4% 5% 5% 1b 75 87 154 61 151 44 61 7% 8% 9% 8% 9% 8% 11% 1c 911 897 1415 648 1412 493 474 90% 87% 87% 87% 86% 87% 84% 1d 2 9 16 8 13 4 3 * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2a 50 45 49 16 77 30 41 5% 4% 3% 2% 5% 5% 7% 2b 131 110 172 60 187 70 90 13% 11% 11% 8% 11% 12% 16% 2c 826 864 1397 663 1359 463 432 82% 84% 85% 89% 83% 82% 76% 2d 6 10 17 6 19 4 2 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 3a 10 17 19 5 16 9 6 1% 2% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 3b 70 71 114 38 93 49 50 7% 7% 7% 5% 6% 9% 9% 3c 926 926 1476 694 1516 499 506 92% 90% 90% 93% 92% 88% 89% 3d 6 14 27 9 17 9 4 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 2% 1% 4a 55 64 78 34 113 40 53 5% 6% 5% 5% 7% 7% 9% 4b 124 152 218 107 244 69 106 12% 15% 13% 14% 15% 12% 19% 4c 828 805 1325 599 1273 454 405 82% 78% 81% 80% 78% 80% 72% 4d 5 8 13 6 10 4 1 * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * 5a 49 50 42 17 50 23 46 5% 5% 3% 2% 3% 4% 8% 5b 87 92 122 38 126 51 56 9% 9% 7% 5% 8% 9% 10% 5c 872 878 1453 686 1447 487 460 86% 85% 89% 92% 88% 86% 81% 5d 4 9 19 5 17 5 3 * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 6a 4 6 4 1 7 4 3 * 1% * * * 1% 1% 6b 5 16 17 4 10 7 6 * 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 6c 992 989 1573 726 1588 541 547 98% 96% 96% 97% 97% 95% 97% 6d 12 18 42 15 37 14 9 1% 2% 3% 2% 2% 2% 2% 7a 28 32 45 15 38 17 24 3% 3% 3% 2% 2% 3% 4% 7b 80 107 174 44 152 65 74 8% 10% 11% 6% 9% 11% 13% 7c 900 883 1395 679 1437 482 466 89% 86% 85% 91% 88% 85% 82% 7d 3 7 21 8 15 2 2 * 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 8a 12 20 29 9 23 8 15 1% 2% 2% 1% 1% 1% 3% 8b 47 70 124 41 122 36 47 5% 7% 8% 6% 7% 6% 8% 8c 951 932 1471 689 1489 520 502 94% 91% 90% 92% 91% 92% 89% 8d 2 6 11 7 8 3 2 * 1% 1% 1% * * * 9a 25 28 45 18 39 13 19 2% 3% 3% 2% 2% 2% 3% 9b 38 63 116 32 98 38 33 4% 6% 7% 4% 6% 7% 6% 9c 948 932 1459 691 1490 514 513 94% 91% 89% 93% 91% 91% 91% 9d 2 6 16 5 14 2 1 * 1% 1% 1% 1% * * 10a 34 48 59 27 79 21 22 3% 5% 4% 4% 5% 4% 4% 10b 108 133 199 76 198 73 83 11% 13% 12% 10% 12% 13% 15% 10c 854 839 1355 636 1348 463 456 84% 82% 83% 85% 82% 82% 81% 10d 16 9 22 8 16 9 4 2% 1% 1% 1% 1% 2% 1% 11a 10 23 16 4 25 7 8 1% 2% 1% 1% 2% 1% 1% 11b 34 56 80 13 52 33 28 3% 5% 5% 2% 3% 6% 5% 11c 963 943 1522 723 1548 519 525 95% 92% 93% 97% 94% 92% 93% 11d 5 7 18 7 16 7 4 * 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% 1% * - indicates less than 0.5% -------------------------- [1] - The actual question preface was: "This card contains a list of some things that might have happenned to you at some point in your life, either as a child or as an adult, or both. I'd like you to read down the card, and for each item tell me, to the best of your knowledge, if that has happenned to you more than once, once or twice, or never." The actual available selections were: a) More than once; b) Once or twice; c) Never; d) Don't know. These selections, (a, b, c, and d), are indicated in the detailed Demographic Data section. Format notes: The order of the questions as listed in Summary I & II is as presented in the referenced document. The _numerical order_ corresponds to the order of the questions as presented in the Demographic Data section and corresponds to the actual order of the questions as presented to the original respondents. Card 1 and Card 2, in the Demographic Data section, are each presented in two parts to conform to an 80-column format. They were originally presented as a one-page landscape (horizontal 132-column) printout. For household income the 'M' indicates married couple income. Occupation is for the interviewed respondent and not the head of household. The column titled "Empl Fems" indicates employed females. Geographic designations: NE = Northeast, New England and Mid-Atlantic states; Midwest = East North Central and West North Central states; South = South Atlantic, East South Central and West South Central states; West = Mountain and Pacific states. (These are combined U.S. Census Regions.) Market size corresponds to A.C. Nielsen definitions: A = the 25 largest metro areas in the U.S.; B = individually or aggregately within a metro area have a population of 150,000 or more; C = individually or aggregately within a metro area have a population of 35,000 or more; D = all remaining counties. Although not specifically mentioned in the study commentary or the data analysis, the "Race Blck" column is assumed to refer to that portion of respondents who identified themselves as Afro-American. The referenced document is assumed to be accurate. THIS DOCUMENT, ALTHOUGH PROOFREAD TWICE, MAY CONTAIN TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS WHICH ARE SOLELY MINE. [2] - Surveys were conducted in July, August, and September 1991. The Total and monthly respondent figures are listed. The individual month margin of sampling error is +/- 3%, the total sample margin of sampling error is +/- 1.4% After demographic exclusions, 185,000,000 people are represented by the total survey. "Thus, when 8% of our respondents reported that they have 'seen unusual lights or balls of light in a room without knowing what was causing them, or where they came from,' that 8% can be said to represent a total of 14,800,000 Americans." [3] - TRONDANT is a fictional word and the question was included "in an attempt to guage the reliability of people's responses. It is interesting to note that only 1% of respondents, the lowest for any item, report this as having happenned." [4] - PSA = Political Social Actives; Roper terms them Influential Americans and defines them as: "predominantly in their thirties and forties, are married and have children. They are wealthier than most Americans, with a median income of $38,700, compared to $28,300 for the total population. On average, Influentials are also better educated - 43% of Influentials are college graduates, compared to 30% of the total population." [5] - Percentages have been rounded off "to the nearest whole percent." This means that adding sub-item percentages may yeild values greater than 100%.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 9 'Roswell's 50th' - Rumour Mill From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 21:58:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 21:58:44 -0500 Subject: 'Roswell's 50th' - Rumour Mill Roswell - The Event Speakers - Provisional Bob Dean , Linda Howe, Stan Friedman, Michael Lindemann, Paul Davids, John Mack, Budd Hopkins, Whitley Strieber, and - I'm really not ready for this - (damn, _this_ is going to make our trip down there worthwhile!) Don Schmitt and William Shatner on the same stage, like uh, y'know, like, uh, like talking Yew-fos. Gawd, I hope Shatner doesn't sing..... Who _is_ doing the booking down there? Kevin have you decided yet? There will be a rock concert--"limited to 150,000 persons." 150,000? Are there _that_ many ufologists? Additional events include a 'bibical-UFO drama' titled 'Ezekiel's Wheels'. Ooooooo, now _that's_ entertainment. [Cue Billy Preston] "Will it go round in circles, Will it fly high, like a bird up in the sky?" SHUT UP, BILLY!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Information Sought & 'B2' Sighting From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:23:38 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:52:12 -0500 Subject: Information Sought & 'B2' Sighting > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:41:19 -0500 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: INFORMATION SOUGHT & B2 SIGHTING > To: UFO UPDATES TORONTO <updates@globalserve.net> > Dear Colleagues, > I was hoping someone with more knowledge about these matters than I could > confirm the following: > "US Naval submarines do not carry surface to air missiles" > In light of the TWA 800 incident, perhaps someone can shed light on this? To the best of my knowledge, which is by no means extensive, US Naval Submarines do not carry surface to air missiles. There is one exception. The Seawolf Submarine, at least when I was interested in subs, was going to include SAM missles on it's mast. Frankly, I'm so outta touch on Subs that I'm not even sure the disposition of Seawolf. I know it was canceled, restarted, and canceled. I THINK< but am not sure, that there is at least one Seawolf completed. I'm not sure about that, nor am I sure that the current Seawolf has SAM at all. However, when you look at WHY a sub might want to fire a SAM, it quickly becomes unlikely that a sub could have fired the SAM that took down TWA 800. The military purpose of a sub is to kill a target silently, with stealth, and leave. It isn't going to hang around on the surface, or even near the surface, tracking targets with active radar to launch a missle at a target. Its simply not within it's mission profile. The SAMS intended to go on the SEAWOLF were short range missles akin to the stinger. The idea behind them was to use passive sonar to listen for a helicopter or an ASW plane dropping sono-bouys. When trapped or being herded in the wrong direction, the sub could then pop to the surface, fire the missle, and shoot down the aircraft. Of course, the sudden loss of an aircraft would alert the enemy that the ghost they are tracking is real, and intesify the search in the area of the downed craft, but it might, in a last ditch effort, give the sub a way to escape. Anyway, it simply doesn't fit the profile of a sub to launch a high altitude attack on an aircraft. IMHO, which is outdated, I admit. Michael KF4MYX
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Old UFO case From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:08:45 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:51:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Old UFO case UFO UpDates - Toronto writes: > > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:29:33 -0600 (CST) > From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> > Subject: Old UFO case > > Question for some of the historians on the list. I'm looking for an article > in the April 8, 1912, issue of "Nature", detailing a triangular UFO case > known as the "Wiltshire Shadows" case. That's not a typo -- it was really > 1912. Anybody have any info? Thanks in advance. > > Brian > This case is mentioned in "The Books of Charles Fort" (The Book of the Damned) on pgs. 266 - 268. It refers to "Nature, 90-169" where Charles Tilden Smith writes about the event at Chisbury, Wiltshire, England on April 8, 1912 It also refers to a letter from another correspondent, on page 244 of the same volume of Nature. On page 268, a meteorologist, Charles J.P. Cave, writes that he observed a similar appearance on April 5 and 8, at Ditcham Park, Petersfield. Further associated references occur on pages 322 and 348 of Nature. Hope this helps, John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: 'Roswell's 50th' - Rumour Mill From: magnus@io.com (Bruce Lanier Wright) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:22:09 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:57:04 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Roswell's 50th' - Rumour Mill Errol or somebody said: >Little Grey Whispers..... ka-snip >There will be a rock concert--"limited to 150,000 persons." >150,000? Are there _that_ many ufologists? Sure! We'll give each one of them an official ufologist's badge at the gate! Word from Blighty is that Hawkwind, the antideluvian cult SF rock band, is DYIN' to play Rosfest 97! This is really shaping up.... Giant Rock with Marshall amps! If they come across the waters, I may have to make this here event... Bruce W. Packaging up the Venusian dog hair
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- Persinger! From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:57:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:49:50 -0500 Subject: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- Persinger! At 01:15 PM 1/9/97 -0500, Chris wrote: >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >First, where would such magnetic fields come from in nature? Hello Chris, I don't wish to reopen a rather smelly can of worms, but don't assume that this phenomenia has to be connected to "natural' sources. The power of the EM feilds Persinger used were reportedly _below_ AMA safety standards. Science doesn't need reversed engineered alien technologies to influence brain function remotely. Best Reguards, Thomas A. Rice
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Brazil UFO video clip - recorded, 1991 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 19:42:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:54:38 -0500 Subject: Brazil UFO video clip - recorded, 1991 Hi Errol, hi all, As a follow-up to an earlier post about the Brazillian newscast of a UFO that was videotaped in 1991. I have posted a gif movie of about 5 seconds in duration (looped) at the Intruders Foundation website. It's a whopping 2.1 MB file so get a friend/book/sandwich ready for the download wait. I do promise that your patience will be rewarded. This is some of the most striking footage that I've ever seen. The object was taped over a one and-a-half hour period. It strobes on and off in the odd patterns that you'll see, and then disappeared as suddenly as it had arrived. According to the newscaster, there were 'thousands' of witnesses to the event. You can download and view the clip at: http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/ufovideo.html I await with anticipation your comments/thoughts on this remarkable newscast footage. Feel free to download it for closer study, or for your personal archive. Not to be reproduced for publication. Sorry for any 'graininess' that was introduced during the conversion process. (Second generation video converted to Quicktime, and then to gif) The original image is very sharp and clear, a 'broadcast quality' camera was obviously used to record the lengthy event. If anyone out there has any more information on this sighting, I would welcome hearing it. The original video is in Portugeese! I speak spanish, but I was only able to make out/translate what little I have already shared. I can't make out the name of the city or town where the event took place! Only that it was in the State of Sao Paulo in Brazil and happened in 1991. Anyone? Enjoy, amigos! <G> John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Drake's Equation From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:24:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:55:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation John Powell wrote: > Sagan's 'proof' was based on a _lack_ of evidence and this is not an > uncommon method used in critical analysis. Not the proof I referred to, John. You can find it starting on page 200 of Sagan's book The Cosmic Connection. (Or, if you have a different edition from mine, in chapter 28.) Essentially it's an a priori proof. Rather slyly, he mentions the large number of UFO reports, and then proposes a far more conservative figure for actual supposed alien visits...one per year. Then he embarks on calculations. So many intelligent civilizations in the galaxy...so many "interesting" places for them to visit (his word). Now, he says, suppose we receive one visit per year. Why, that means (flourish of arithmetic) that each civilization has to launch ten thousand probes each year, just to allow the probability that one -- from anywhere -- would reach us. He then cites calculations from some other scientist, showing that there's not enough metal in the galaxy to sustain such an effort. This "proof" has nothing to do with absence of evidence. It's jejune, to use a nice literary word. It doesn't allow for the elementary possibility that one large probe finds us, then disgorges many smaller ones, which are seen over and over again. It doesn't allow for the possibility that we're in the midst of a densely populated galactic area, and therefore would be more likely to be visited. (Note that he assumes that visits are random, and that each place in the galaxy has an equal probability of being visited!) Nor does it allow for the possibility, as Bob Shell suggested, that we'd been visited long in the past, and for all practical purposes colonized. Admittedly, all these possibilities are speculative. But so is Sagan's rather astounding -- and, interestingly, unstated -- assumption that probes shoot out on an essentially random basis, and if some planet is found, it will never be visited again. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 DISPATCH #35 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:23:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:58:15 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH #35 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #35 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 1/09/96 Quote of the Week "In ancient times, the word mystery did not have the same connotation that it does now. It did not mean 'strange' or 'weird.' Rather, it referred to a unique gnosis -- that is, knowledge which was to be revealed to the candidate for initiation." --From "Mastery of Life," a recruiting brochure published by the Rosicrucian Order -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Setting a Record Pace Are you people nuts? You're spending WAY too much time on those computers. ParaScope ended the year with a blistering amount of member activity, and we want to thank you for helping us set new records for November, December and what is looking to be a record January. America Online's new unlimited usage policy has generated what seems like unlimited access by our readers, making us one of the fastest-growing areas on the service. On the web, publicity from the Strange Universe TV show and our selection as a Netscape "Cool Site of the Day" has resulted in a similar surge in interest. To our new subscribers, readers, members and friends, we'd like to say hello, and thanks to all of you for making us one of the hottest spots in cyberspace! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ParaScope on the Road to Ancient Egypt A few of us from ParaScope are taking a long-overdue road-trip right now, and this letter is coming to you, in fact, from a secret location high in the Sierra Nevada mountains. But we're not just goofing off while we hit the road, we're goofing off and learning something along the way. Look for details of our trips to the strange and mysterious Rosicrucian Park in San Jose, California and the stylish but spooky Luxor Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. We'll take you behind the scenes of both of these Egyptian-themed attractions to let you know the inside secret of their mysterious symbology and occult inspirations. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week daily on AOL or weekly every Thursday on the world-wide web. South Central Intelligence Agency If you missed it the first time, catch the latest update on CIA Director John Deutch's bizarre visit to South Central Los Angeles. Perhaps Deutch was expecting a softball press junket, but instead he got a ride in the Unwelcome Wagon as South Central residents grilled him on the extent of his agency's involvement in the influx of cocaine to the Los Angeles area. Get complete transcripts, screen captures and analysis in this comprehensive update of an explosive confrontation long overdue and well deserved. ---------------- The Xerox Spy In the wacky TV show "Get Smart," bumbling would-be spy Maxwell Smart used such improbable gadgets as the shoe-phone and the cone of silence to carry out his espionage. But even Maxwell Smart never thought of bugging a photocopier. But that's just what an American intelligence operative did while spying on the Russians. He snuck a spy camera into the Russkie's Xerox machine, where it snapped photos of every document they copied. Dossier editor Jon Elliston takes you inside this amazing spy story, showing you the documents themselves and telling you the wacky-but-true story of "the Xerox Spy." ---------------- Researchers Call Bullshit on Fake Alien The world of UFO research can be as serious as any legitimate scientific undertakings or as ridiculous as the carnival midway. A recent string of developments in the Israeli UFO community has more resembled the latter than the former. Self-proclaimed psychic spoon-bender Uri Geller claimed at a recent Israeli UFO conference that he was abducted by aliens as a child. Another speaker who claimed to have been given special powers by offworld visitors proclaimed that a cavalcade of saucers would gather over Tel Aviv on Jan. 5. (It didn't happen.) Finally, a sample of an alleged recovered alien body was analyzed by researchers who announced preliminary results revealing cow dung among the substances identified from the sample. ---------------- Occult Indoctrination: It's Cool! The mysterious and cryptic teachings of the ancient Egyptians have long been among the most closely guarded by those initiated into secret societies and clandestine cabals. Now, you too can get in on the wacky secrets, kooky occultism and scary symbology of the enlightened and illumined sages of ancient Egypt. Even better, you can pick whether you want the full text or the Cliff Notes version. The Rosicrucian Order in San Jose, Calif. offers an in-depth study course in the mysteries of ancient Egypt and Babylon. You can meditate in their private gardens, study in their private library, or linger among their ancient artifacts. Or, if you prefer the low-fat version, visit the Luxor Hotel and Casino (also the world's largest pyramid) in Las Vegas. Play craps, try a video game and undergo the first three levels of occult indoctrination in the casino's theme park! Occult indoctrination doesn't get any cooler than this. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: 'Backlash' From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:04:54 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:53:21 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Backlash' > From: rfsignal@sprynet.com <cathy johnson > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:38:16 -0800 > Subject: 'Backlash' > To: updates@globalserve.net > >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:17:52 -0600 (CST) > >From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" > ><btbmag@ro.com> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' > >> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:44:34 -0500 > >> From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Backlash' > >> Michael Malone writes: > > > it is absolutely unthinkable and a black mark on those > > > scientifically and ethically interested in UFOs that there are > > > self-claimed abduction researchers (Yes, Greg, I mean that in a > > > negative sense) who are using their knowledge of psychology and > > > therapy, either hypno-thearpy or otherwise, to gain knowledge > > > about an alleged experience, and then will report on that alleged > > > experience without attempting to verify the experience physically. > While it is always idealistic to assume that the personal > qualifications and motivation of any MHP is oriented in favour of the > 'patient', such is not reality. Certainly there have been serious > mistakes and there remains a serious deficiency in the overall picture > of practical, available care and standards of MHP while dealing with > any experiencers or abductees. On a world-wide scale, the standards > of care and qualifications of such MHP's is virtually non-existent. Like I have already said, MHP's and researchers should first deal with "abductees," "contactees," and "Experiencers" as pateints, not at ACE (Greg, that is my new word for them. ACE, like it?) If you definition of good MHPs is defined in relation to how they treat someone as an ACE, then it is you with the problem, and not them. > >I would like to say that the auxillary agencies would be a group such > >as MUFON, but I think most people on this list knows how I feel about > >them. Ideally, it would be a group of researchers willing and able > >to perform the associated physical research and verification. > >Depending on the needs of the patient (Remember when we were talking > >about what to call abductees? I think the therapist should ALWAYS > >remember that they are patients first. It might be advisable for a > >private investigator to be hired. While many can't afford this > >solution, there are a number of research groups who want verification > >of alien abduction who should be willing to help with the physical > >verification. > This all sounds so prim and proper. Actually it is so far > removed from the truth. Literally, for most experiencers/abductees, > there is not a lot that can help them in any way. People living in > small towns or rural areas have a hard enough time getting decent > medical care let alone for something as controversial as troubles that > directly result from bad abduction experiences. For the most part > they are left to their own devices. Not true. There is plenty of litirature available from dealing with ritual satanic abuses cases that greatly resemble alien abduction cases, most notebly in the lack of physical evidence. Any responsible MHP has the resources available to him to find help for ACEs in dealing with their mental trauma. At the very least, any responsible MHP can test the ACE for examples of organic mental health problems. Even rural MHP have access to testing tools. > After fifty or so years of ongoing abductions, experiences and > the lot, that the esteemed MHP community would have set up some kind > of realistic avenue for dealing with the whole subject of experiencers > and abductees. Yet, in the Capital city of Canada (like most other > cities in Canada) there is a definite lack of both professional and > grassroots organizations or any other kinds of support groups. The subject of ACE isn't within the perview of the MHP. The subject of physical trauma is. Again, as long as you continue to judge MHPs in relationship to their acceptance of ACE as reality, then you will never find a MHP that is valuable. The mental health of the patient is the concern of the MHP, not the ACE. > Bud Hopkins is only one man. Yet he has had an overload of > calls and mail for his services. He is only one example of many > concerned and capable professionals who operate virtually alone and > without vital support in trying to help some of the more desperate > kinds of cases. But, Bud is not alone, there are so many others like > him who would try to do something if he could. Sheer numbers of his > caseloads are snowing him under an avalanch of desperation. He needs > help just as much as anyone else does to properly conduct realistic > approaches to a supposedly non-existent myth. He had no problem finding MHP help when he started. For a recent story I've been writing for the local newspaper, I asked several differant MHPs and MHP groups if they would be willing to help ACEs. None of them stated that they would NOT help an ACE. In fact, the local MH Center reported that they had already helped patients whose mental trauma came from ACE. The reality or non-reality of ACE is irrelevant to the MHP, at least at first. What is important is the mental reaction and processes. And helping the PATIENT deal with them properly, in a healthy manner, and while returning the patient to a high level of functioning. The reality of ACE isn't a question any MHP is capable of answering AS AN MHP. > That, sadly, is the average response from the very limited MHP > resources available. The few MHP's that lend their ear soon find it > bent out of its previous shape. On the one hand, there are so many > desperate people with outlandish problems and on the other, a vast > community of professionals who have neither time nor place for any > sort of association with a few rogue doctors. In my experience, and in the experience of several local MHP professionals, the ACE doesn't want to deal with the trauma at all. Instead, they want recognition and details of their event. Instead of seeking help, they are seeking at least local fame. MHPs are guides, trainers, and aides. Not mirical workers. The ACE has to want help, not unqualified acceptance. > >In the case of implants, alien pregnancies, and the like, the obvious > >agency is a doctor. I've run into several female "abductees" who > >claim to have given birth to alien fetuses onboard alien craft, but > >have never been to a doctor to have those pregnancies verified. All > >these women were under the care of an psycologically based alien > >researcher, and the researcher never suggested the medical > >verification. > Do you realize that those 'claims' could have been anything > more than just 'claims'? Since you can't be obvious enough to > believe any of the supposed 'claims' then there must surely be > supporting evidences. Evidence? What Evidence! Lack of evidence is > not evidence of absence. Believe that the evidences are to be found. You have no right to assume anything about what I beleive. The issue here isn't Belief, it's evidence. I don't think I've ever refered to a lack of evidence as evidence of absence. In fact, this entire thread between myself and the highly esteemed, at least by me, John Powel, has been exactly about how absence of evidence could very well be evidence of presence. Accusing me of such a "belief" is a severe detour from reality. So basically, it's time for those with the claims to put up. This hasn't happened yet. > There is such a shortage of MHP's who are willing enough to > deal with the mundane problems of the world that there is literally no > one left to go to for the abstract and controversial subjects. No > average doctor, psychiatrist or any other kind of MHP has the time nor > the inclination to shoot down his own career in the name of UFOology > or any other kind of 'ungodly' entreprise. Just doesn't happen very > often at all. So, being that there is no one to go to see, the > lineups are non-existent for all to see. If you don't deal with the > problem, it doesn't exist, right? Again, the career destroy for a MHP is a malpractice suit, or a discrimination suit, for not being willing to treat a patient. I have yet to find a MHP that would be unwilling to help, or find help, for an ACE AS A PATIENT. > >Then, if we have a patient who is either no longer, or has never, > >exhibited any severe trauma, who is currently stable, and cannot > >explain the abduction experience any any other terms, it's time to > >start the physical investigation. Turn to local forensic groups, > >here in Huntsville there is a forensic science explorer post. Try > >interesting a privateinvestigator, or learn basic monitoring > >techniques yourself. Apply a systematic, documented method to verify > >that the abduction is occuring, using any and all means you can > >obtain. > Bin dere, done dat, no t-shirts left. What if...? Then please share with us the protocal you used to monitor these patients. And tell us the results of that monitoring. Tell us how the results were replicated, what equipment you used, how it was designed. > >After all, how many more "stories" do we really need? How many more > >"interpretations" can we use? Isn't it time we started the physical > >aspect of this investigation. > I keep repeating what no one here seems to remember. There is > over fifty years of abduction experiences available to draw any kind > of conclusions from. Literally, what you believe in is just what you > will find to believe in. It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of evidence. And there is none. Fifty years of nothing is still nothing. There is over 5 centries of leprechan experiences, 10 centeries of unicorn experiences, and dozens of centuries of various other kinds of phenomena that have NO evidence behind them. So they STAY MYTHS. We keep repeating that we want to develope evidence, and you don't seem to remember. > In conclusion, it starts right here. We will try to > accomplish something worthwhile or not, right here. There are many > other places to go to, but at the moment, we are still right here. > Nothing is all that much different than fifty years ago. Sure, there > are better toys to play with, but the mindset of everyone is not any > more advanced for all of that. Yet, that's the important start. The > mindset of people as a species has to change for the better. This is not a problem with the species, its a problem of inadequate scientific application and protocals. The mindset of the species is irrelevant to the physical reality. This whole "advancedment of the species" is to much like a religion, and not enough like a science, for me. Michael Malone KF4MYX
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Universe may be honeycomb of huge voids From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:37:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:47:30 -0500 Subject: Universe may be honeycomb of huge voids THE GUARDIAN 9/1/97 Universe may be honeycomb of huge voids Tim Radford Science Editor ASTRONOMEIRS believe they have discovered a "tantalising" structure to the universe: a regular pattern of huge holes followed by clusters of galaxies. The possibility that the universe is a honeycomb of voids in a vast scaffolding of star systems roughly every 391 million light years is expected. The finding, by a team of scientists from laboratories In Estonia, Russia, Germany, Spain and the United States, is reported today In Nature. There have been hints before that there might be a regular rather than a random pattern to the heavens. In 1992 astronomers at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration in the United States identified a pattern of "ripples" In the cosmic background radiation left over from the "big bang" of creation 10 to 15 billion years ago. The barely detectable ripples in cosmic radiation in the sky could have become what one Harvard astro-physicist calls the "richly textured, high contrast universe of galaxies and galaxy clusters we see today". Sir Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal and a Cambridge professor - and author of a book, Before the Beginning, published by Simon and Schuster - described the evidence as tantallsing. "Everyone agrees that there is a characteristic scale of structure in the universe as large as that, but the controversial thing is whether it is a regular lattice," he said. "If there really was some magic special wavelength in the universe, it ought to show up. If it shows up anywhere it is going to be quite a challenge to theorists. If it really is a well defined scale it doesn't fit naturally into any of the standard ideas." Why should the universe "fracture" in a regular pattern, the way ice might fracture on the surface of a pond? Sir Martin said the finding might revive the idea of cosmic defects. "It will not take long before theorists come up with more ideas," Sir Martin added. "There is a difference in psychology between those who want to feel we already understand the big picture and are upset by anything that doesn't fit in, and those who are excited at anything fundamentally new that might show up, I'm in the latter camp." - end - JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 BWW Media Alert 970109 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:15:33 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:48:52 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970109 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) January 9, 1997 Kind of an odd week, this week. There are a few interesting things, but it's pretty sparse. One particularly odd one was checking out the revised Discover Channel site and seeing a listing for THE SCIENCE NETWORK, which has "paranormal Thursdays". They run a bunch of Arthur C. Clarke programs, basically. However, the site made it look like they are running the same episodes for about a month. I called the 800 number to check on it, and the "viewer relations" person there didn't even know they =had= a science network! The viewer relations person recommended I e-mail the site directly, and I'll try that. I'm not going to list it yet, because I'm not sure what is going on. Also, there was quite a bizarre fictional one this week. I happened to have COACH on, and it seemed to be a "very special episode" (you know, the kind of thing where a sitcom does something serious about prostate problems, or breast cancer, or something). In this case, it was about alien abduction! Dauber, who is admittedly an idiot on the show, believed he was an abductee. The coach, noted for his insensitivity, fired him (since he couldn't give 100 percent to the football team, given that he was expecting to leave the planet soon). The "sensible one" on the show, the coach's wife, encouraged the coach to treat him kindly. The other characters on the show (which mostly consists of fools and dweebs) believed Dauber. It was like sensitivity training for dealing with abductees. Strange. Oh, and PSI FACTOR wants me to alert you to a contest they have upcoming on their website. If you haven't been there, it's a fun site. Go to http:\\www.psifactor.com. As we go to modem, the info isn't there yet, but it should be soon. Also, check out the four hour block of UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH on Sunday on Discover. A couple of my things are a bit spotty this week: I know THE LEARNING CHANNEL is re-running EXTREMELY WEIRD once this week, and I don't really have accurate listing for SCI-FI. FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Gil Latimer's excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http:\\www\cninews.com. John Shirley, author of WETBONES and HEATSEEKER, as written SILICON EMBRACE*, which deals extensively with the UFO/conspiracy mythos (a word I use to mean a set of beliefs, not implying true or false). I haven't read the book yet, but I've read a good review which among other things said "...too weird and unsettling to be to everyone's taste..." which makes it sound attractive to me. The review was by Michael Berry in The San Francisco Chronicle/Examiner. On TV, the X-FILES do a cross-over on THE SIMPSONS (Homer has "an alien encounter"). Voices include David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson (and Leonard Nimoy). That's on Sunday at 8:00 pm. TNT is running THE PHILADEPHIA EXPERIMENT 2 on Wednesday at 7:00 PM. For a golden oldie, TRAPPER JOHN, M.D., at 9:00 am on the Fox cable channel, has Lance Kerwin claiing to be an alien (also guest stars Nancy Walker). Aunt Clara accidentally imports a couple of ETs on BEWITCHED on Wendesday at 5:35 am on TBS. The BIONIC WOMAN encounters an alien predicting the destruction of the Earth on Wednesday at 1:00 PM on the SCI-FI CHANNEL. THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN has the bigfoot/alien episode on Thursday at 2:00 PM on SCI-FI...this episode has been accused of shaping public perception of bigfoot, given the popularity of the show. Finally, Mork from Ork first appeared on HAPPY DAYS: see the episode on Wednesday at 8:30 pm on Nickelodeon. ON-LINE No details available, but check http://www.omnimag.com on Monday and select PRIME TIME to see who will be on there. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website at http://www.endoftheline.com However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week, I hear. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: no details available PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --week of 1/6, in one case, INFESTATION, NASA scientists are found dead near a meteorite; and in HUMAN APPORTATION, a mother and daughter are teleported (a word coined by Charles Fort...an apport is a word generally used in seances where physical media ((mediums, to you)) would make things appear) from California to Canada --week of 1/13 (new episode): THE CURSE (which is a King Tuttish thing); and ANGEL ON A PLANE, wherein a disabled plane is landed by a mysterious pilot. Saturday, January 11 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Robert Gribble, founder of the National UFO Reporting Center, gives his first tv interview. Includes a photo of a UFO over Alcatraz, etc. 8:00 AM, CNN, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, looks at religion and its attitudes towards ET life 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: OUT OF THE BLUE (weird things that fall from the skies) Sunday, January 12 1:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH, REASON TO BELIEVE (starting with the one that started the modern era and caused the term "flying saucer" to come into popular parlance in 1947) 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, UFOS--DWN TO EARTH, GREAT BALLS OF LIGHT (explores the Persinger theory that electromagnetic "earth lights" cause people to hallucinate) 3:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, UFOS -- DOWN TO EARTH, UNCOVERING THE EVIDENCE (crash and retrieval stories, like Roswell) 4:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, UFOS -- DOWN TO EARTH, DEEP SECRETS (are secret weapons responsible for UFO sightings? And are we flying H-PACS ((Human-Piloted Alien Craft))?) 5:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, PSYCHIC DETECTIVES 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SECRETS OFANCIENT WORLDS (Atlantis, etc.) SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) Monday, January13 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, SCI-TREK, CURSE OF THE COCAINE MUMMIES (traces of cocaine and nicotine were found in Egyptian mummies...how could it get there?) Tuesday, January 14 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stationsa nd playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, SCI-TREK, CURSE OF THE COCAINE MUMMIES (traces of cocaine and nicotine were found in Egyptian mummies...how could it get there?) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES no details available 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, FALLING PHENOMENA (how is this different from the previous episode? Not sure, they both deal with stuff falling from the sky) 10:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, WHAT IF...? EXTRATERRESTRIAL CONTACT (new series, not sure what to make of this. It takes a postulate, such as that we receive intelligent ET signals, and creates a fictional scenario around it...in this case, including it forcing the government to fess up on Roswell, since that info is needed to decode it...if you see it, let me know what you think, and why you think it is on this channel) Wednesday, January 15 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C.CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, FALLING PHENOMENA (things that fall out of the sky) 1:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, WHAT IF...? EXTRATERRESTRIAL CONTACT (new series, not sure what to make of this. It takes a postulate, such as that we receive intelligent ET signals, and creates a fictional scenario around it...in this case, including it forcing the government to fess up on Roswell, since that info is needed to decode it...if you see it, let me know what you think, and why you think it is on this channel) 3:15 PM, AMERICAN MOVIE CLASSICS, THE MIRACLE OF OUR LADY OF FATIMA (dramatization of the amazing case witnessed by thousands...miraculous contact, group delusion, or UFO?) Thursday, January 16 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 2:00 AM, AMERICAN MOVIE CLASSICS, THE MIRACLE OF OUR LADY OF FATIMA (dramatization of the amazing case witnessed by thousands...miraculous contact, group delusion, or UFO?) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES 10:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, THE POWER OF PRAYER Friday, December 17 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 2:00 AM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, THE POWER OF PRAYER 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *You can order the books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). Alternatively, you can mail your check or money order to: Greenleaf Publications P.O. Box 8152 Murfreesboro, TN 37133 U.S.A. Add $4 for the first item and $1 for each additional item for S&H in the U.S. My foreign correspondents should add $5 for the first one, $1.50 for each additional (plus $3 if shipped by air). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. Their website is http://www.debshome.com/glptitlepage.html ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Physical Marks on Abductees From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:54:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:45:53 -0500 Subject: Physical Marks on Abductees Hiya Errol, hi all, There has always been much controversy over the 'scoop marks' and other assorted and sundry marks and scars that follow on the heels of many abduction episodes. In hopes of adding something of value to the subject, I am posting a series of e-mails that I have exchanged with a Radiologist who specializes in analysis and interpretation of neurological x-rays, MRI scans and the like. The doctor wrote to me after he had downloaded a copy of Linda 'Cortiles' x-ray from the Intruders Foundation website. I have deleted any reference that may expose the doctors identity. I'm not an academic, so excuse me if I didn't ask the 'right questions' I did my best. Do with this information what you will. I hope that someone finds it of some value to their inquiries or research on the abduction phenom. John Velez ==================================================================== The first e-mail that I recieved from the doctor. Dear sirs, Interestingly, your "Gif" formatted x-ray of Ms. Cortile's nose can't be displayed on Paint Shop Pro...can you e-mail me a high res. jpg or bmp? Anyways, there is definitely a radio-opaque foreign body of 6-8 mm [guesstimate] in the cartilaginous/soft tissue of her nose. It is hard to say if this is midline without an AP view or CT scan. The maxillary sinuses are clear. It would be of interest to see the rest of her sinuses with a Water's [chin-up] and true lateral of the skull. Also, there are 2 round high density 3 and 6mm [roughly] objects in the submental region, in the subQ (subcutaneous,JV) soft tissue, about 1 cm from the edge of her chin. These could be sub-maxillary gland duct stones, or something else. She should have a CT scan to check out her sinuses and brain, with thin 1mm cuts! [Just complain of chronic headache to get one paid for by insurance]. Quite fascinating skin slides. I'm only a radiologist, but any medical grad knows the "scooped-out" dermal lesions are artificially made 'punch biopsy" scars. These are done by dermatologists all the time, and range from 2-8mm in diameter, the most common being 4mm. Also, the photos of the thoracic spine raised lesions could be from prior removal of cerebrospinal fluid. We see similar, but much smaller lesions, after myelographic procedures in X-ray. ---------------------------------------- All of the pix that the doctor is refering to can be viewed at the Intruders Foundation website. Oppinions from qualified medical professionals is always encouraged and welcome. JV http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html ---------------------------------------- If you have any interesting x-rays, feel free to send them to me, preferably in high resolution jpeg format. I will be starting a neuroradiology fellowship in 6 months, and could show them around for any extra input. Very entertaining site. Sincerely x (deleted) x (deleted), M.D. deleted - College 'year deleted' deleted - Hospital, Radiology Address Deleted ========================================================================= My response. Hiya Doc, Thank you so much for taking the time to send your analysis. If we could only get the attention of trained mainstream professionals like yourself, to help to conduct a comprehensive investigation, we'd have many more answers than we now have, and in very short order. The fact of the matter is, we're being written off, dismissed and ignored. As it stands now, we're (all) considered to be delusional, hallucinating, or suffering from "false" memories! Nothing, could be farther from the truth. For the most part, we are quite 'ordinary' individuals that are having 'extraordinary' experiences. I will provide you with whatever materials I can. I promise that your anonymity will be maintained and protected to the utmost. Someone like you is a valuable resource. It's like finding a diamond. I can tell you that NOT ONE of the individuals in the photos has ever had a "punch biopsy." At least not any that was administered by any earthly physician! Folks remember getting those during abduction episodes, as a part of 'other' equally intrusive "medical" proceedures. I realize how ludicrous (and incredulous) all this must sound to you, but here goes. I remember having a long silver needle with a tiny silver bead on the end of it shoved up my nose. I didn't feel any pain, only pressure, as the being performing the proceedure pressed it against what must have been bone. I remember hearing the dull crunch inside my head as it penetrated. (My brain pan? Who knows!) I have had semen samples taken by these "aliens" on more than one occasion. There's more, but I don't want to scare you off too soon! <Grin> The real kicker is, that I'm not alone! Many others from all over the globe remember the (EXACT SAME PROCEEDURES, ADMINISTERED IN THE SAME SEQUENCE, BY THE SAME CREATURES, USING THE SAME INSTRUMENTS!) How can that be? How can thousands of otherwise average / normal individuals be shareing the same hallucination? If it was all in our imaginations, you'd think that there would be radical differences in the stories we report. But that is not the case. We corroborate each others stories down to minutia of detail. That would not be possible if it was simply the product of overworked imaginations. And then there is this "physical component,"... dreams and hallucinations do not leave (physical) marks and scars behind! How do (fully healed) cuts, marks and scars appear overnight doctor? I will talk to Budd about securing originals and/or copies of the x-rays for you to study. I'll get back to you on that. In the meantime, thanx again for your valuable time spent on our behalf, and for any that you may dedicate in the future. Believe me Doc, it is greatly appreciated. Talk to you again soon. John Velez ====================================================================== The doctors response to my e-mail > in "quotes" John V ------------------------------------------------- To: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Re: Linda Cortile's X-Ray, et al. John Velez wrote: > Thank you so much for taking the time to send your analysis. If we >could >only get the attention of trained mainstream professionals like >yourself, >to conduct a comprehensive investigation, we'd have many >more answers >than we now have, in very short order. The fact of the >matter is, we're >being written off, dismissed and ignored. Well, don't be dismayed. Even though I have a medical degree, I've still read Budd Hopkins' works with an open mind. >I can tell you that NOT ONE of the individuals in the photos has ever >had >a "punch biopsy." At least not any that was administered by any >earthly >physician! Actually, I didn't think they did, since they had no obvious skin lesions where the biopsy marks were. >I remember having a long silver needle with a tiny silver bead on the >end >of it shoved up my nose. I didn't feel any pain, only >pressure, as the being pressed it against what must have been bone. I >>remember hearing the dull crunch inside my head as it penetrated. (My >>brain pan? Who knows!) I've heard of this before. The paranasal sinuses connect far posterior almost to the skull base. The dull crunch was probably the thin bony septae popping. YOU should get a CT scan to see if anything is back there...Complain of severe maxillary sinus pain or transient visual black spots or even a severe migraine next time in the ER to get this done free! >How do (fully healed) cuts, marks and scars appear overnight doctor? I have no answer for that one! >I will talk to Budd about securing originals and/or copies of the >x-rays >for you to study. Those would be excellent. Even jpeg'd versions would be great. x x, MD ========================================================================== My latest to the Doctor, >in "quotes" the doctor -------------------------------------------- From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Subject: Re: Linda Cortile's X-Ray, et al. Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: Hello, You wrote, >Actually, I didn't think they did, since they had no obvious >skin lesions where the biopsy marks were. Could you please elaborate just a bit about the "absence of skin lesions?" What would cause them, and why would they be "expected" to accompany a punch biopsy site. Why do physicians perform 'punch biopsys?" >I've heard of this before. In abduction literature or somewhere else? >The paranasal sinuses connect far posterior almost to the skull base. >The >dull crunch was probably the thin bony septae popping. What lies directly behind the "thin bony septae?" Pituitary gland? Parts of the brain that control involuntary body functions such as breathing or heart beat? This is an important piece of info as it may provide some insight as to the purpose of the implants and proceedures relating to them. I've already told you, that you are welcome to view the x-rays in person at Budds home at any time that it can be arranged. Again, thanx for your time. Look forward to hearing from you again. John Velez ===================================================================== the doctors response > in "quotes" John V ----------------------------- To: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net> Subject: Thank you for the info; very interesting cases overall. John Velez wrote: > Could you please elaborate just a bit about the "absence of skin >>lesions?" What would cause them, and why would they be "expected" to >>accompany a punch biopsy site. Why do physicians perform 'punch >>biopsys?" These are done to confirm a diagnosis using histology, ie., with suspected herpetic vesicles. Cells can be used for DNA analysis as well. These people, [abductees whose photos appear on the website-JV] had no obvious skin conditions, so why would these marks be there? > In abduction literature or somewhere else? Yes, I have read two of Mr. Hopkins' books. The sinuses are the only bones in the body beside the mastoids which have large air pockets; ideal 'storage spaces.' > What lies directly behind the "thin bony septae?" Pituitary gland? >Parts >of the brain that control involuntary body functions such as >breathing or >heart beat? This is an important piece of info as it may >provide some >insight as to the purpose of the implants and proceedures relating to >them. Yes! The pituitary lies immediately behind the most posterior sinus, the sphenoid. The pituitary connects to our body's 'cruise control' - the hypothalamus via its stalk. That's kind of you to give me Hopkins' home phone. The bitmap image doesn't view well on a PC. If I have any time, I'll give him a ring. Other abductees reportedly also have disturbingly strange x-rays/MRIs and medical conditions. I simply cannot make a timely trip in person to view these, but thank you for offering. Ms. Cortille's case is apparently controversial [pros and cons, including the 'secret service' agents], so that one can argue she could have faked the x-ray by inserting the object into her nasal cavity. On the other hand, due to the object's position, this would be difficult. A CT scan could have helped. Sincerely x, x, MD -------------------------------------- Hi, I'm back! I hope that this material will prove to be of some value to someone. I tried my best to ask the "right questions", and some of the doctors observations/oppinions ARE quite compelling. Although as always, I'm sure that there are those that will vehemently disagree with my oppinion! <G> See you guys out there, John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Lord Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:35:11 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:05:04 -0500 Subject: Lord Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 From: Ian Ramsey <earthrite@gn.apc.org> This defence Chief stuff is old hat but Admiral Hill Nortons latest public statement was published in the following open letter in the journal: NEXUS. Clearly he has no problem going public on it. Have you not seen the stuff published by the present incumbent (I think his name is Nick Pope) of the MOD desk for UFO stuff, its certainly not for cerebral hygiene type skeptics or the fearful? So I cant quote you the reference for the earlier quote you ask about but I believe its from long ago er ...sixties I think. The letter below is less than 2 months old. So perhaps you can write to him yourself and ask him when the earlier quote comes from comes from....after all the truth is out there. However his opinion hasn't changed in the intervening years. Any way keep taking the tablets and may Clearlight lighten your furrowed brow. ian --------------------- UFO Concern Dear Mr Roads: It has been suggested that I should take the initiative to establish an informal group of sensible and respected people who are genuinely concerned with the implications of the UFO phenomenon now manifest world wide, including Britain. The aims of such a group would include the dissemination of information based on facts, not fiction,together with recommendations for appropriate action. I have been personally interested in this baffling but challenging problem for many years, and I am in touch with several others who share my view that strenuous efforts should now be made to address the problem. I recently circulated a memorandum to people I know who share my concern about UFOs, with good results, and I am encouraged in to believe that it would now be useful to bring it to the notice of others who might reasonably be interested, such as readers of your magazine. This would help us to assess the extent of public concern which actually exists about the contemporary UFO situation. If you feel able to give some publicity to this, I shall naturally be very glad to hear from any of your readers who might care to get a in touch. (SAEs would be welcome.) Yours sincerely, Admiral of the Fleet The Lord Hill-Norton, GCB, c/o The Old Store, Athelney, Burrowbridge, Bridgwater, Somerset TA7 OSE, United Kingdom. Published in NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:36:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:06:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs Hi folks, >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 07:42:47 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:12:05 -0600 (CST) >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >> This is a critical point, because it logically decimates the >> misidentification hypothesis. I've yet to hear a skeptical >> counterpoint on this falsification of the misidentification >> hypothesis. >I've never seen the misidentification hypothesis formally presented >but I'm sure there are folks who think that misidentification answers >everything. >That's kind of silly since the majority of observers are casual and >untrained ......... JC: If I may tweak the terminology a bit. I believe the last sentence should probably say: "..... since the majority of "reporters" are casual and untrained." What Dr. Hynek once said probably applies here: Chapter 1 The Laughter of Science p.9 =B6 2 "the most coherent and articulate UFO reports come from people who have not given much thought to the subject and generally who are surprised and shocked by their experience." p.9 =B6 4 "some of the very best reports have come from scientifically trained people..... These reports are usually rarely published however, because the person usually requests anonymity." ....... >How does one turn the Pascagoula case into a misidentification <grin>? JC: Good question. I have a friend that was raised in that general vicinity that would definitely ask the same thing. Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 CUFON, DARPA & a 'Project Aquarius' From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:30:18 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:03:57 -0500 Subject: CUFON, DARPA & a 'Project Aquarius' From: Chris Lambright <chrisl@www.tcet.unt.edu> CUFON has just released a report on their discovery (through DARPA) of a Project Aquarius, and the material they obtained on it. This revelation and some of the facts they have gathered could bear strongly on the matter of the project thought to be maintained by NSA. The article can be found on our website UFO's: A Closer Look... http://www.tcet.unt.edu/~chrisl/ufos.htm and specifically.. http://www.tcet.unt.edu/~chrisl/cufon/aquarius/aquari96.htm Thanks.. -Chris -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Chris Lambright "If at first you do succeed chrisl@www.tcet.unt.edu try not to look astonished!" -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=>*<*>*<=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:55:33 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:10:22 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:18:48 -0600 (CST) >Persinger's "magic helmet" is an interesting device and he has received >a great deal of attention over the past few years. While some people >(certainly not all) using his helmet report vague sensations and odd >mild hallucinations, their experiences are greatly different from the >complex narratives and reports of abductees and contactees. Persinger's >suggestion that people in a "natural" environment would interpret such >sensations as alien encounters is greatly unsatisfying. [snip] I wonder if they ever tried the helmet on a real abductee to get an accurate comparison from someone who knows the real thing? Joel Henry ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: The Rockefeller Report From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:19:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:08:04 -0500 Subject: Re: The Rockefeller Report >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >Subject: Rockefeller Report >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 97 09:13:23 GMT >Dear Colleague, >I am trying to locate a copy of the so-called 'Rockefeller Report' on >UFO's that was sent to various governmental agencies etc in l996. >Can you possibly supply me with a copy ? Hello! There are several, including me that would like to see a true copy of that report. Why was it a controled document to begin with?!? Have copies been leaked, and if so, how would we know if they are the real McCoy? Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Mendoza's Secret Life From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:53:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:41:18 -0500 Subject: Mendoza's Secret Life >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:27:59 -0600 (CST) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project 1947 - 'UFO: The Government' [snip] Brian Zieler posts a challenge to Peter Brookesmith. Peter doesn't believe the American government has any secret knowledge of UFOs, and says so in his latest book. That lead Brian to suspect that Peter is employed by counterintelligence and DEMANDS that Peter prove his innocence, even to the point of granting permission for others to search for damning documents under the Freedom of Information Act: >1) Have you ever served in the military or intelligence agencies of the US, >UK, or elsewhere? >2) Have you ever held, or currently hold, a security clearance, and if so, >what is it? >3) Would you sign a privacy waiver to allow an FOIA search for documents on >yourself at various intelligence agencies? >I hate to bring this kind of thing into such a useful forum, but sometimes >in the counterintelligence game, such questions need to be asked. This is outrageous. Is it impossible, now, for someone to be an honest UFO skeptic? Is merely publishing skeptical views about UFOS supposed to be prima facie evidence that someone works for the government? As a veteran leftist with vivid memories of the Vietnam war -- and of plainly marked government cars slowly circling my block in an attempt to intimidate people I lived with -- I'm certainly no fan of the American government. I can imagine all sorts of nefarious counterintelligence activities. Hell, I've even come up against them firsthand. But I also remember the McCarthy years, when any leftist or even nonconformist view was taken as "evidence" that someone was formally allied with communists. People...we don't want to go down that road again. If there's actual evidence that someone has intelligence connections, fine, let's deal with it. But the mere fact that someone publishes a skeptical book...even one we might think is bullheaded...that's not enough. Especially since the proposition isn't falsifiable. "Peter Brookesmith is an intelligence agent..." How can anyone, including him, disprove that? Suppose we searched under the FOIA, and didn't find anything. That just means they refused to release the data! (Or so someone would surely say.) We <do> know that UFO skeptics exist. We know they publish books. The government conspiracy can't possibly be so widespread that every expression of opinion is controlled. If someone publishes a skeptical book, we ought to assume that he or she is just expressing personal opinion...unless we have concrete, detailed, <tangible> proof that something bigger is involved. Very concerned, and, as I said, outraged, Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Carl Sagan From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:39:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:39:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan Bob Shell wrote: > Regarding Carl Sagan. I know people who knew him, and I'm told his public face > and private face were quite different. I think maybe he changed his position on > UFOs because someone let him in on the secret, and he agreed that it ought to be > kept secret. Care to elaborate, Bob? I'd love to know more. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:02:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:45:30 -0500 Subject: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation Date: Thu, 9 Jan 97 15:04:58 -0600 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> This is getting interesting! >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:12:46 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > >In a message dated 97-01-08 01:53:20 EST, Pat writes: > ><< > Ed Steward slipped a cog when he said; > > > >Really? I was not aware there was a record of migration or colonization > > >to another planet. Would you please enlighten the list? Inquiring minds > > >would like to know. > > > Two words. "Mars rock" > > > ~Pat~ > > > Gotcha! :-D > > >Thanks Pat, > > >We have also left a variety of instrumentation and machines on other > >planetary bodies, e.g. moon, Venus, Mars, etc. Besides we have long had > >it within our technical capabilities to send animals to other planetary > >bodies but haven't either for lack of purpose or political reasons. >None of which is a migration. > Mars rock aliens were sent on a forced migration. > :) > ~Pat~ I'm not sure why, but I feel compelled to jump in here... Pat, are you defining a meteor crashing into Mars with the force to send a rock flying to Earth as "forced migration"? I guess I'm a little more comfortable with that notion than I am with defining fossilized remains of a long-dead microscopic organism as an "alien". Someone even suggested that perhaps these organisms were originally propelled from Earth to Mars by the same cataclysmic set of circumstances that sent them flying back to Earth once again. If lightning can strike once, I guess it can strike twice. Would we call that a "forced homecoming"? WRT sending animals to other planetary bodies within our solar system, I consider "lack of purpose" to be a perfectly viable "political reason" not to embark on such endeavours. For example, why would we send a dog or a monkey off to die on a planet that is incapable of supporting conventional Earthly life? You'd think we would, at the very least, require a vast ark, mated pairs, space stations/kennels/zoos, and a flood every now and then would come in handy for filling their water bowls. I agree that our initial attempts to send animals into space is, by no means, "migration". The Humane society would be the most obvious "political" entity to raise objections on this matter. It would also likely make NASA look foolish, thereby risking more funding cuts in the future. It's more likely that such a plan would be devised as a solution to prison overcrowding, much in the same manner that England used Australia. Who knows, maybe ETs are more 'exiled criminal' than 'ambassador'. Taking this one step further, these 'aliens' may be nothing more than 'migrating' extra terrestrial pets on very long leashes. Let's hope they remember to curb their chupacabras! I'm not sure where I was going with all of this, but I'd better stop now... D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Jan 97 14:22:03 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:42:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life The Duke of Medoza presents his compliments. > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:27:59 -0600 (CST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project 1947 - 'UFO: The Government' This one could run and run. First let me address: > And the Keyhoe bio is an excellent example of an inexcusable > misrepresentation. If there are any errors in the book, please let me know. I should have the opportunity to correct same when (if...) a reprint is scheduled. If on the other hand this is just a grump about my presentation of Keyhoe's tendency to mingle truths, half-truths and tendentious remarks - such as in his pretense that a UFO was involved in the Comet crash in Calcutta, I confess to being strangely unmoved. (BTW, the edition of "UFO: A complete catalogue..." currently on sale in the USA has many errors corrected from the first edition, including that especially egregious misnaming of Irving Newton as Jesse Marcel.) > I have several questions for Mr. Brookesmith: > 1) Have you ever served in the military or intelligence agencies of > the US, UK, or elsewhere? I have never made a secret of being a MOSSAD agent. The idea is that no one will believe you if you say this, thereby preserving your cover. It was Loren Coleman that first sussed me on this (hi, Loren, hi, Mum). If I had served in any of the UK intelligence agencies (or were doing so now) I wouldn't be/am not at liberty to say, but I can say, hand on heart, that none of my military or intelligence activities, should they have existed, now or in the past has or has had any connection with UFOs, unless you count listening to artillery shells whizzing overhead (which make a very distinctive sound). Confused? Good. People who ask naive questions like this seem to forget a basic principle of intelligence (and assassination) work: the cut out. Thus you will find it very hard to discover in Barnes & Noble's accounts the large check paid by the NRO for that expensive paper. Usual conspiracy logic makes this mean that the NRO *must* be involved, absence of evidence amounting to proof. But here's a clue - the money was laundered through a company in London, and who knows who's paying them?? (Possibly Barnes & Noble.) Mmmmm hmmm, plenty of food for thought there. > 2) Have you ever held, or currently hold, a security clearance, > and if so, what is it? If this means have I ever been positively vetted, as we call it, I doubt I could tell you that either. But my Dad was. Amazingly enough, he was rather vague about why although I believe he was working on fuzes for nuclear weapons at the time. But don't forget my friends who were once MI5 operatives; and the ones who work for the Defence Research Agency and Marconi on radar systems and torpedoes; and the guys I know who regularly attend the US aerospace show at Wright Patterson; and the fact that my first wife's lover when she worked in Laos in the mid 70s was none other than Earl J. Young, head of USAID there, and we all know who USAID was cosy with in Laos. This is all pretty circumstantial I know, but remember the cut-out principle and the fact that I am doing my best not to disappoint. And Granpa Brookesmith was a Freemason. I have his regalia. That ought to do it, what? > 3) Would you sign a privacy waiver to allow an FOIA search for > documents on yourself at various intelligence agencies? Why not - I'd like to know what they [heh heh - don't] know, too. If you e-mail me privately with a form of words known to be acceptable to FOIA managers, the privacy laws, etc, with your snail address, I'll write, sign and mail you the necessary. Not that there is any reason to suppose that my actual or imaginary military and intelligence careers were conducted under any of the names by which you know of me today. With best, if very furtive, wishes P. Mendoza Brasshat-Spy (not his real name either)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Jan 97 13:06:13 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:44:08 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 10:49:37 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? Greg wrote; >I've seen Persinger on TV, and he struck me as something of a crackpot, >despite his credentials and some impressive research into the >conjunction of earthquakes and UFO reports. Unfortunatley now employed by the DoD on non-lethal weaponry, which just goes an takes all the fun out of war. What next, non-cutting scissors? James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 16:34:10 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:09:53 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - With respect to: Persinger's "magic helmet" Joel Henry said; >I wonder if they ever tried the helmet on a real abductee to get an >accurate comparison from someone who knows the real thing? I willing. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:00:38 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:06:46 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> > >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > >First, where would such magnetic fields come from in nature? > Hello Chris, > I don't wish to reopen a rather smelly can of worms, but don't > assume that this phenomenia has to be connected to "natural' sources. The > power of the EM feilds Persinger used were reportedly _below_ AMA safety > standards. Science doesn't need reversed engineered alien technologies to > influence brain function remotely. Tom: As I noted, this was my *first* question. Persinger's original TST relied specifically on natural EM fields, so that was what I was querying. It's true now that Persinger uses EM fields of strengths (as he puts it) "less than that of a hair dryer." Obviously, people expose themselves to this type of thing every day. In fact, such fields would be encountered so often that one could then expect field-induced hallucinations on a constant basis! My computer has a field stronger than a hair dryer, for example, and I sit in front of it for 8-10 hours per day. And *dare* I mention the cellular-phone debate, in which such fields would be in *direct* contact with users' temporal lobes? The major problem is not with the possibility that such fields can induce physiological effects. The problems are that Persinger attempts to explain a broad range of phenomena and also that his methodology has been shown to be flawed on previous occasions. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows | trex |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: The Rockefeller Report From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:54:27 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:08:52 -0500 Subject: Re: The Rockefeller Report At 03:08 PM 1/10/97 -0500, Thomas Rice wrote: >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:19:58 -0700 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Rockefeller Report > There are several, including me that would like to see a true copy >of that report. Why was it a controled document to begin with?!? Have >copies been leaked, and if so, how would we know if they are the real McCoy? Well, fore one thing, the front page says: "Unidentified Flying Objects" "Briefing Document" "The Best Available Evidence" by Don berliner [.. some snipped ..] Presented by CUFOS, FUFOR, MUFON December, 1995 If it looks like this, you can be pretty sure you have the "real McCoy" How do I know this? Gee, tough question, eh? :) Jean __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Jenny Randles?? From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:47:56 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:07:52 -0500 Subject: Jenny Randles?? Does anybody happen to have Jenny Randles' email or surface mail address? Anybody have any info? Thanks in advance. Jean __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:35:20 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:12:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - > From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - Persinger? > >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Greg wrote; > >I've seen Persinger on TV, and he struck me as something of a crackpot, > >despite his credentials and some impressive research into the > >conjunction of earthquakes and UFO reports. *impressive-seeming* research, you mean, Greg! His methodology is flawed; he once showed how, statistically, airplanes and stars misidentified as UFOs were linked to distant, mild quakes six months before the UFOs (IFOs) were actually observed! > Unfortunatley now employed by the DoD on non-lethal weaponry, which just goes an > takes all the fun out of war. Yes, he has a DoD contract. Why does that not surprise me? After all, the government and military are known for their efficiency and logic, are they not? -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows | 76710.234 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:35:02 +0100 (MET) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:10:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life At 03:42 PM 1/10/97 -0500, Peter Brookesmith wrote: >Date: 10 Jan 97 14:22:03 EST >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life >(BTW, the edition of "UFO: A complete catalogue..." currently on sale in >the USA has many errors corrected from the first edition, including that >especially egregious misnaming of Irving Newton as Jesse Marcel.) Mr Brooksmith, I've got a question about one of your books. In it, you address the Trent photos, but you also print a color photo of a similar, but not identical, object taken at the same? site, but with completely different foliage. Do you have any verifiable source for that picture? I.e. references to other *reliable* UFO literature? What's the exact story behind it? Jean __________________________________________________________________________ Science, Logic, and the UFO Debate: http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/index.html -----------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #8. From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 00:36:24 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:18:09 -0500 Subject: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #8. Welcome to The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #8. (Members 927 on 11-1-97) We are changing the format of the mailing list to make it easier for our readers to find the new updates on the Connector. From now on we are linking all the new material on the Whats New page, which you can find by clicking on the link or icon on:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/connect.html The updates: ------------ Chet Snow presents a Crop Circle Slideshow at the Sedona Conference, Arizona, USA. Two new MPEG Video clips featuring the Double Helix at Alton Barnes in June 1996, and the Triple Julia Set at Windmill Hill, also in 1996. An Advert for a Colin Andrews Audio Tape Interview called, The Crop Circles Phenomenon: The latest Update. with Matthew Cross. The tape contains actual sounds recorded inside the formations. We have updated and redesigned the Homepage for SCR Southern Circular Research. (You can find it on the Homepage link within the New Circular Links) All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Comments on Discovery programs From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Jan 97 18:19:02 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:14:05 -0500 Subject: Comments on Discovery programs All week I have been hearing from people who watched the programs on UFOs on the Discovery channel. I do not get Discovery, so I have not seen the programs myself, but would like to comment on some of the things apparently said in the one about the Alien Autopsy film. If information was forwarded to me incorrectly, then I would hope that some who sees this will correct me. One of my correspondents has pointed out that the programs were originated in a studio near the Pentagon by something called Four Winds Production Group, and suggests this may be another govt front. I don't know, so I forward this suggestion FWIW. Someone in the area may want to look into this. I hear that Mr. McGovern, dean of aged cameramen, was on there once again giving his "it would have been shot in color" rap. Well, it just happens that the Kodak Handbook, 1945 edition (current in 1947) specifically says that surgical procedures should be filmed in black and white. This book was the "Bible" of the working photographer/cinematographer, both military and civilian. It also specifically recommends using Super XX film for this filming. So much for the "it would have been in color" argument. Additionally, according to _16-Mm Sound Motion Pictures : A Manual for the Professional and the Amateur_ by William H. Offenhauser, 1949 edition, color motion picture film for use with 3200K artificial lights (tungsten light sources, such as light bulbs, flood lights, etc.) had just been introduced. So in 1947 such film did not exist, and filming indoors under artificial light could only be done with daylight balanced color film with a conversion filter, which eats up a hell of a lot of light. This would have reduced the effective film speed of the already incredibly slow color films to an unusable level. Apparently the TV program followed McGovern's discourse on "it would have been in color" with some footage of an actual surgical procedure to prove his point ---- in black and white!!!! According to several issues of The Kodak Salesman, a bulletin for salesmen and dealers in Kodak products, there was a serious shortage of 16 mm motion picture film of all types as early as April/May of 1947. This could have reduced the variety of films readily available for jobs, and reinforces "Jack's" claims that they complained about film choice all the time but had to use what they were given. People have called me paranoid for saying that Kodak may not have been dealing with me in good faith. I have suggested that Kodak has close ties to the US military and US govt. A letter written by T.J. Hargrave, President of Eastman Kodak Company on August 20, 1945 and sent to all Kodak dealers has this statement in it: "Our operation of one of the three large-scale plants in the atomic-bomb project has, for instance, just been disclosed." What Kodak ties and projects have not been disclosed? There is a lot more material I have gathered with the help of many real researchers, and I hope some day to find a publisher with enough courage to let me write the real story of the Alien Autopsy film. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Roswell - 'The Glenn Dennis 'Story'.' From: Ktperehwon@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:48:24 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:16:06 -0500 Subject: Roswell - 'The Glenn Dennis 'Story'.' Yep, I'm the author..... KARL PFLOCK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Carl Sagan From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:34:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:15:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:39:09 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >Bob Shell wrote: >> Regarding Carl Sagan. I know people who knew him, and I'm told his public >> face and private face were quite different. I think maybe he changed his >> position on UFOs because someone let him in on the secret, and he agreed >> that it ought to be kept secret. >Care to elaborate, Bob? I'd love to know more. >Greg Sandow ================================================ Having been an unwilling victim of Carls "public face", so would I Bob. John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 BWW Media Alert 970110 (re-send) From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:43:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:12:59 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970110 (re-send) Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) January 10, 1997 Yes, this is a re-send of yesterday's, somewhat updated (to include the SCI-FI CHANNEL and LEARNING CHANNEL info). There was a problem and the updated mailing list was not (updated that is) so I wanted to re-send it. I apologize to people who are getting it twice, but at least you are getting updated info as well. Kind of an odd week, this week. There are a few interesting things, but it's pretty sparse. One particularly odd one was checking out the revised Discover Channel site and seeing a listing for THE SCIENCE NETWORK, which has "paranormal Thursdays". They run a bunch of Arthur C. Clarke programs, basically. However, the site made it look like they are running the same episodes for about a month. I called the 800 number to check on it, and the "viewer relations" person there didn't even know they =had= a science network! The viewer relations person recommended I e-mail the site directly, and I'll try that. I'm not going to list it yet, because I'm not sure what is going on. Also, there was quite a bizarre fictional one this week. I happened to have COACH on, and it seemed to be a "very special episode" (you know, the kind of thing where a sitcom does something serious about prostate problems, or breast cancer, or something). In this case, it was about alien abduction! Dauber, who is admittedly an idiot on the show, believed he was an abductee. The coach, noted for his insensitivity, fired him (since he couldn't give 100 percent to the football team, given that he was expecting to leave the planet soon). The "sensible one" on the show, the coach's wife, encouraged the coach to treat him kindly. The other characters on the show (which mostly consists of fools and dweebs) believed Dauber. It was like sensitivity training for dealing with abductees. Strange. Oh, and PSI FACTOR wants me to alert you to a contest they have upcoming on their website. If you haven't been there, it's a fun site. Go to http:\\www.psifactor.com. As we go to modem, the info isn't there yet, but it should be soon. Also, check out the four hour block of UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH on Sunday on Discover. FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see Gil Latimer's excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http:\\www\cninews.com John Shirley, author of WETBONES and HEATSEEKER, as written SILICON EMBRACE*, which deals extensively with the UFO/conspiracy mythos (a word I use to mean a set of beliefs, not implying true or false). I haven't read the book yet, but I've read a good review which among other things said "...too weird and unsettling to be to everyone's taste..." which makes it sound attractive to me. The review was by Michael Berry in The San Francisco Chronicle/Examiner. On TV, the X-FILES do a cross-over on THE SIMPSONS (Homer has "an alien encounter"). Voices include David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson (and Leonard Nimoy). That's on Sunday at 8:00 pm. TNT is running THE PHILADEPHIA EXPERIMENT 2 on Wednesday at 7:00 PM. For a golden oldie, TRAPPER JOHN, M.D., at 9:00 am on the Fox cable channel, has Lance Kerwin claiing to be an alien (also guest stars Nancy Walker). Aunt Clara accidentally imports a couple of ETs on BEWITCHED on Wendesday at 5:35 am on TBS. The BIONIC WOMAN encounters an alien predicting the destruction of the Earth on Wednesday at 1:00 PM on the SCI-FI CHANNEL. THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN has the bigfoot/alien episode on Thursday at 2:00 PM on SCI-FI...this episode has been accused of shaping public perception of bigfoot, given the popularity of the show. Finally, Mork from Ork first appeared on HAPPY DAYS: see the episode on Wednesday at 8:30 pm on Nickelodeon. ON-LINE No details available, but check http://www.omnimag.com on Monday and select PRIME TIME to see who will be on there. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website at http://www.endoftheline.com However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week, I hear. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: no details available PSI-FACTOR see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --week of 1/6, in one case, INFESTATION, NASA scientists are found dead near a meteorite; and in HUMAN APPORTATION, a mother and daughter are teleported (a word coined by Charles Fort...an apport is a word generally used in seances where physical media ((mediums, to you)) would make things appear) from California to Canada --week of 1/13 (new episode): THE CURSE (which is a King Tuttish thing); and ANGEL ON A PLANE, wherein a disabled plane is landed by a mysterious pilot. Saturday, January 11 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Robert Gribble, founder of the National UFO Reporting Center, gives his first tv interview. Includes a photo of a UFO over Alcatraz, etc. 8:00 AM, CNN, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, looks at religion and its attitudes towards ET life 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5053): no details available 2:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, EXTREMELY WEIRD (this show ran on broadcast originally, and features host Jay Thomas with (literally) a talking head. Among other things, covers spontaneous human combustion. 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: OUT OF THE BLUE (weird things that fall from the skies) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5053): no details available 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5053): no details available Sunday, January 12 1:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, UFOS--DOWN TO EARTH, REASON TO BELIEVE (starting with the one that started the modern era and caused the term "flying saucer" to come into popular parlance in 1947) 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, UFOS--DWN TO EARTH, GREAT BALLS OF LIGHT (explores the Persinger theory that electromagnetic "earth lights" cause people to hallucinate) 3:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, UFOS -- DOWN TO EARTH, UNCOVERING THE EVIDENCE (crash and retrieval stories, like Roswell) 4:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, UFOS -- DOWN TO EARTH, DEEP SECRETS (are secret weapons responsible for UFO sightings? And are we flying H-PACS ((Human-Piloted Alien Craft))?) 5:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, PSYCHIC DETECTIVES 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SECRETS OFANCIENT WORLDS (Atlantis, etc.) SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) Monday, January 13 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES, AND MIRACLES (#4): Roswell Incident (in which the U.S.Army Air Force announced that it had recovered a "flying disc"...compare to 10:00 PM Tuesday on THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, and 3:00 pm Sunday on THE DISCOVER CHANNEL) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, SCI-TREK, CURSE OF THE COCAINE MUMMIES (traces of cocaine and nicotine were found in Egyptian mummies...how could it get there?) Tuesday, January 14 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stationsa nd playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, SCI-TREK, CURSE OF THE COCAINE MUMMIES (traces of cocaine and nicotine were found in Egyptian mummies...how could it get there?) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#5): ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE (there's a bang-up story :) ); CHICAGO GHOSTS (and one might imagine that there are quite a few); and PAST LIFE REGRESSION (I don't think there could be a "future life regression", could there? I know Paul Reubens certainly hopes there are past lives...) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, FALLING PHENOMENA (how is this different from the previous episode? Not sure, they both deal with stuff falling from the sky) 10:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, WHAT IF...? EXTRATERRESTRIAL CONTACT (new series, not sure what to make of this. It takes a postulate, such as that we receive intelligent ET signals, and creates a fictional scenario around it...in this case, including it forcing the government to fess up on Roswell, since that info is needed to decode it...if you see it, let me know what you think, and why you think it is on this channel) Wednesday, January 15 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C.CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, FALLING PHENOMENA (things that fall out of the sky) 1:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, WHAT IF...? EXTRATERRESTRIAL CONTACT (new series, not sure what to make of this. It takes a postulate, such as that we receive intelligent ET signals, and creates a fictional scenario around it...in this case, including it forcing the government to fess up on Roswell, since that info is needed to decode it...if you see it, let me know what you think, and why you think it is on this channel) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES & MIRACLES (#6):MATH & MYSTICISM; WYOMING PRISON GHOST; AURA READING 3:15 PM, AMERICAN MOVIE CLASSICS, THE MIRACLE OF OUR LADY OF FATIMA (dramatization of the amazing case witnessed by thousands...miraculous contact, group delusion, or UFO?) 7:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): no details available 11:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): no details available Thursday, January 16 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 2:00 AM, AMERICAN MOVIE CLASSICS, THE MIRACLE OF OUR LADY OF FATIMA (dramatization of the amazing case witnessed by thousands...miraculous contact, group delusion, or UFO?) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#7): HAUNTED HOLLYWOOD, PART 1; TAROT READING; MARIAN VISIONS (no, these are not about Mr. C.'s erotic dreams...sheesh, get your mind out of the gutter! These have to do with the Virgin Mary: you know, the one on the used car financing building in Florida?) 10:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, THE POWER OF PRAYER Friday, December 17 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 2:00 AM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, THE POWER OF PRAYER 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#8): HAUNTED HOLLYWOOD, PART 2; ASTROLOGY (no, this is not the study of the Jetson's dog!); KAMBUCHA MUSHROOM (mushroom tea as a healing food...note, don't pick your own mushrooms, unless you want to find out about your future lives a little prematurely :) ). This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *You can order the books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). Alternatively, you can mail your check or money order to: Greenleaf Publications P.O. Box 8152 Murfreesboro, TN 37133 U.S.A. Add $4 for the first item and $1 for each additional item for S&H in the U.S. My foreign correspondents should add $5 for the first one, $1.50 for each additional (plus $3 if shipped by air). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. Their website is http://www.debshome.com/glptitlepage.html ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Video of 'Object' in Moon Orbit From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:56:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:17:07 -0500 Subject: Video of 'Object' in Moon Orbit Hello up there! Just thought I'd pass this on. It's from Francis Ridge, former MUFON State Director, longtime UFO investigator, and now Project Coordinator for Project Lunascan. Jerry Washington (SD KENTUCKY/MUFON) STRANGE OBJECT NEAR THE MOON? TLP: VTD1996 The Lunascan Project began live & taped, high-powered, high-resolution video imagery of the lunar surface in September of 1995. On September 21, 1996, a little over a year into the project, personnel tracked an object that appears to be in orbit around the Moon. This first documentary video produced by the project had to be re-filmed because of this early discovery. The documentary is approximately one hour long and is narrated by the Project Coordinator, Francis L. Ridge. The video shows the massive scope and multiple CCD camera array on Scope Transport Unit, Control Room, and routine of searching for Lunar Transient Phenomena. $20.00 includes shipping. The Lunascan Project 618 Davis Drive Mt. Vernon, IN 47620 slk@world.evansville.net http://www.title14.com/Lunascan/ slk@evansville.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Comments on Discovery Program From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jan 97 05:31:44 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:38:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on Discovery Program >Date: 11 Jan 97 05:31:44 EST >From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Comments on Discovery Progs. >Date: 10 Jan 97 18:19:02 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Comments on Discovery programs >All week I have been hearing from people who watched the programs on UFOs on the >Discovery channel. I do not get Discovery, so I have not seen the programs >myself, but would like to comment on some of the things apparently said in the >one about the Alien Autopsy film. If information was forwarded to me >incorrectly, then I would hope that some who sees this will correct me. >One of my correspondents has pointed out that the programs were originated in a >studio near the Pentagon by something called Four Winds Production Group, and >suggests this may be another govt front. I don't know, so I forward this >suggestion FWIW. Someone in the area may want to look into this. Regarding the above I sincerely hope that Bob Shell investigates other matters and sources rather more thoroughly: Four Winds who produced the four Discovery TV shows are actually based in Leeds, England and to the best of my knowledge the shows were put together in London and Leeds based on film taken world wide. Their researcher, Mary Davies, also comes from Leeds as does Martin Belderson, one of their producers. A group of people less likeley to be putting out disinformation I have yet to come across. The four shows were commendable that in spite of being made mainly for an American market they dared to present a fairly scpetical view of the subject without debunking it. Therefore they *must* be working for the government! I was used as a 'consultant' on the show so I feel qualified to comment on this matter - but then again the monthly cheque from the MOD helps! Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Comments on Discovery programs From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:02:01 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:37:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on Discovery programs Date: 10 Jan 97 18:19:02 EST From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Comments on Discovery programs > One of my correspondents has pointed out that the programs were originated > in a studio near the Pentagon by something called Four Winds Production Group, > and suggests this may be another govt front. I don't know, so I forward this > suggestion FWIW. Someone in the area may want to look into this. I addressed this to you personally and you need not reply twice, but this is absolutely ridiculous!!!!!!! LIke others on this list who have recently made similar statements, I am sick and tired of everything which might be skeptical or not agree with someone's viewpoint as being label as disinformation. Why don't you check out these claims before they are posted because no doubt somebody somewhere will now believe, whether it true or not that Four WInds Production Group is based near the Pentagon and is some sort of gov't. front! I have spoken with a couple of folks at Four Winds Productions. I called them in England at their offices there. It must be a global conspiracty! Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: The Rockefeller Report From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:04:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:42:37 -0500 Subject: Re: The Rockefeller Report >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:19:58 -0700 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Rockefeller Report >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >>Subject: Rockefeller Report >>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 97 09:13:23 GMT >>Dear Colleague, >>I am trying to locate a copy of the so-called 'Rockefeller Report' on >>UFO's that was sent to various governmental agencies etc in l996. >>Can you possibly supply me with a copy ? >Hello! > There are several, including me that would like to see a true copy >of that report. Why was it a controled document to begin with?!? Have >copies been leaked, and if so, how would we know if they are the real McCoy? > Sincerely, > Thomas A. Rice > Wasn't there a program in the Sightings series about the Rockefeller Report? I saw the announcement in a pre-show but never the actual one... Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Japanese UFO Museum Hoax/Scam From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:32:22 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:39:26 -0500 Subject: Japanese UFO Museum Hoax/Scam >From 'The Crop Watcher' issue 22, Summer 1994. pp 20-22) Japanese UFO Museum Hoax Scam - by Paul Fuller Readers will recall that in CW20 we examined claims made to Colin Andrews by the Japanese representative attending the United Nations Society for Enlightenment and Transformation lecture :- "Following last minute discussions at the United Nations with the Japanese representative appearing at the symposium, I was happy to be able to celebrate with the audience the Japanese and Chinese government's decision to openly research and release information on the UFO. The Japanese representative told me of plans, which have now been set in motion, to inform their people of the truth surrounding the UFO. A huge multi-million dollar museum now being built in Japan, is the first phase of the public education program." Writing in the CPR International Newsletter (Fall 1993, vol 2 no 2) Colin Andrews discusses this claim in some detail. Andrews states that during lunch at the United Nations he was introduced to "a Japanese government official" Mr Johsen Takano, Professor Chiang, Yoang Yung, Chairman of the Taiwan UFO Science Assocation, John Schuessler, Michael Hesemann and Dr. Rauni Luukanen-Kilde of Norway. During lunch Andrews claims that Takano suddenly produced plans of the proposed Hakui City UFO Museum. Andrews states :- "[Takano] explained that this was the beginning of a very important government program following adoption of a new policy to educate the Japanese people about the UFO phenomenon within the next three years. ... This was the first I was aware of the Japanese government's decision to reveal information about the UFO and other related phenomena. I could not believe what I was hearing, yet at a deeper level, I have expected similar developments from the west in a similar time frame". Well, according to Andrews it seems that even the Chinese Government has decided to educate its peoples about UFOs and crop circles ! Andrews claims that he has been invited by the Chinese Government to run a "series of lectures" at "a large University in Taiwan" during April 1994. There is a drawing of what the Japanese UFO Museum will look like ("the conventional Adamski-type UFO") and the subjects to feature in this "museum" will include "aerial phenomena, abductions, crop circles, and radio transmissions related to S.E.T.I.". Andrews quotes Takano stating that the Museum has a budget of 5,400,000,000 yen (approx $ 50 million US). Hakui is a small coastal town 310 miles to the west of Tokyo. _Expose_ Now new evidence has emerged which casts a wholly different light on these sensational claims. In the Spring 1993 issue of Tim Beckley's "UFO Universe" magazine, Anthonio Huneeus has published an article titled "Japan's UFO Mystery Tour". In it he states :- "In 1989, shortly after Kaifu became Prime Minister, the Japanese press reported that the small textile town of Hakui was receiving funds to build a UFO museum. The Japan Times quoted Mayor Kazuo Shiotani saying that 'our idea is that if we build a museum or a library devoted to UFOs, we will be able to attract more conventions and tourists. We want Hakui to be a town that everyone in Japan knows.' The same article quoted excerpts from Kaifu's 1983 letter. According to The Wall Street Journal's Tokyo correspondent, the Hakui funds were part of an 'extravagant # 2.4 billion _furusato sosei_ - or 'home town creation' plan, aimed at boosting communities nationwide'. The plan consisted of giving 100 million yen (about $ 770,000 US) to various towns and villages. 'All the recipients have to do is find a way to use the money', continued the article, which reported Hakui's 'alien project' of 'building a UFO museum shaped like a flying saucer'." So, now we see Colin Andrew's claims in a wholly different light. In no way was this an official Japanese Government Project to inform the public about the UFO phenomenon. Neither were there any connections with the Chinese Government or the US Government. Instead it was a crafty attempt by the mayor of a small Japanese textile town to attract tourists and establish his town on the Japanese consciousness! Readers are invited to calculate the huge difference in the sum of money quoted by Andrews and that quoted by the Wall Street Journal! Further into Huneeus' article it becomes clear that Johsen Takano, the "Japanese government official" who spoke to Andrews at the United Nations, is actually an employee of the Hakui City Council, as well as being a long-time UFO buff. According to a UPI press release dated 7 Jan 1994 Johsen Takano, 38, has a personal collection of "thousands" of UFO books and his interest in the subject stems from his student days. According to Takano "We are not seeking to offer any conclusions on the existence of UFOs. Rather, we just want to provide people with information so that they can make their own judgement." The idea for creating the UFO Museum probably formed following pro-UFO statements made by former Prime Minister Toshiki Kaifu in 1983, when he wrote a letter to the leader of his own political party, the Liberal Democratic Party stating:- "When you ask me if I believe in UFOs, I'll say I'd like to though I've never seen them, because the existence of UFOs is a perfect dream." Kaifu's interest in UFOs stems from a meeting he held in 1967 with Mr Takio Oda, "a very influential person in the Foreign Ministry". Kaifu went on to state : "It's been one of my desires to watch a UFO ever since, but it has never materialised". Amazingly Kaifu admitted that he had searched for UFOs in trips to the Pacific Islands, Australia, Switzerland and Antarctica. "I hope my dream to encounter a UFO comes true in the future". In November 1989, shortly after Kaifu became the Japanese Prime Minister, Kaifu gave a brief interview to students at Waseda University in Tokyo, where the question of founding an official government UFO organisation was raised. Kaifu responded :- "...If young people display a serious interest in similar phenomena, we should perhaps think of forming a UFO data collecting group under the auspices of the Ministry of Education". In 1990 the Hakui City School Board organised a Space & UFO symposium which attracted 50,000 people to see the exhibits. The organisers managed to obtain a letter of endorsement from Prime Minister Kaifu to Major Shiotani dated June 4, 1990. Perhaps this letter is one reason why Takano appears to have claimed to Colin Andrews that the UFO Museum was an official Japanese Government-backed project? Plans for the UFO Museum proceeded from this date, although now four years later it is still only a concept on paper. In late 1991 Prime Minister Kaifu stepped down from his premiership and was replaced by Kichi Miyazawa. However, Tokuo Moriwaki, who is a graduate in political science from Waseda University, has set up the Japan UFO Political Party, one of dozens of single-issue "mini parties" which dot the Tokyo political spectrum. Moriwaki has tried since 1986 to get elected to the Upper House of the Japanese Diet (Parliament), but has so far failed. So, once again a claim made by Colin Andrews in the public arena has turned out to be quite false. Once again the public have been misled. And once again we call on Andrews to issue a public retraction. ----------------------------------- The Crop Watcher is an independant non-profit-making magazine devoted to the scientific study of crop circles and the social mythology that accompanies them. All correspondence should be addressed to: Paul Fuller, 3 Selborne Court, Tavistock Close, ROMSEY, Hampshire, SO51 7TY England. ----------------------------------- =========================================================================== ______ /__ __\ - Ian Read \\_\/_// - UFON UK/NUFOS Board Director \ .. / - Email - i.read@netcom.co.uk \ / - UFO Discovery - http://people.netcom.co.uk/i.read/ \/ - Newsgroup - alt.binaries.ufo.files
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Lord Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 07:46:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:44:54 -0500 Subject: Lord Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 I got to know Hill-Norton during the review of Good's alien liaison.[See Lobster 23]. His foreword seemed to have un-necessarily upset some of his own colleagues - ADM Bobby Inmann, and RADM Sumner Shapiro [both well-known in intelligence circles]. Hill-Norton's response, and his knowledge of ufo's [taped conversation] was [and maybe still is] limited to what Good and then Oechsler used to feed him. In the course of one conversation Hill-Norton called Inman and Shapiro liars. Shapiro's [ex-ONI director] response [taped-conversation] was that as sad as it is for a fellow colleague; Hill-Norton seems to becoming senile. A point on which I tend to concur with Sam to some extent. Hill-Norton also failed to answer to some serious questions put to him, whilst both his colleagues and many others, allegedly involved in Cosmic Journey - another blockbuster for Good - answered my correspondence, and later in the course of my trips to The Pentagon, we met, to further iron out discrepancies there. The public loves sensation - fiction - doomsday material, and there are many who are glad to oblige and enjoy from the derived benefits as well as profit. RE: Rockefeller's report I could mail this substantial report, sent to me long ago - if there is an absolute need. It did not impress me. Regurgitated old material. R. seem to be playing his role pretty well - keeping both camps happy. RE: C. Sagan. I concur with Mr. Shell's comment. A little BI would be rewarding Mr. Shell. A. Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Carl Sagan From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:13:02 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:43:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan At 03.39 PM 10/01/1997 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:39:09 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >Bob Shell wrote: >> Regarding Carl Sagan. I know people who knew him, and I'm told his >> public face and private face were quite different. I think maybe >> he changed his position on UFOs because someone let him in on the >> secret, and he agreed that it ought to be kept secret. >Care to elaborate, Bob? I'd love to know more. >Greg Sandow As Mr. Shell is asked to reveal his secrets here, can he also reveal his knowledge about the mysterious Volker Spielberg of the AA-film?? In a couple of letters to me he confessed to have information that could verify the genuineness of the AA-film: "Jorgen, I am not at liberty to disclose private information on Mr. Spielberg. You might try asking Mike Hesemann as he may not be under the same agreements as me. Bob" ---------------- Here I wrote him back and informed him of him revealing his knowledge of the AA-film so we all can verify it as a hoax or genuine. ---------------- "Jorgen, I was given Mr. Spielberg's personal address and phone number under an agreement of confidentiality. If you feel that honoring my agreements like a gentleman detracts from my credibility, so be it. My word is my bond." Jorgen / WUFOC www.wufoc.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 21:04:05 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:36:07 -0500 Subject: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) David & Angie Lynn, while looking at a compass to be sure which way the geese are going, found the following... > Besides we have long had >> >it within our technical capabilities to send animals to other planetary >> >bodies but haven't either for lack of purpose or political reasons. > >>None of which is a migration. <--- K. Randle said that. > > >> Mars rock aliens were sent on a forced migration. <--- Pat P. Replied. > >> :) Seeing the gene pool so inviting, David &/or Angie Lynn, I don't know which, said; >I'm not sure why, but I feel compelled to jump in here... > >Pat, are you defining a meteor crashing into >Mars with the force to send a rock flying to >Earth as "forced migration"? Well, it was getting rather cold there and water was becoming scarce. Can't blame the rock, or rather, little colony of creatures, for wanting to move to a trailer park or something. > I guess I'm a >little more comfortable with that notion than >I am with defining fossilized remains of a >long-dead microscopic organism as an "alien". Who said they are dead? Shoot, they may be just real slow moving... You know, like Santilli getting around to sharing some real film reels with Bob Shell to sniff and pass on to Kodak. >Someone even suggested that perhaps these >organisms were originally propelled from Earth >to Mars by the same cataclysmic set of >circumstances that sent them flying back to >Earth once again. I think you have hit the nail on the head! Now, if NASA can get funding for an exploratory mission to Earth from Mars, once they get there, that theory might just be proven once & for all. Until then we can only guess. > If lightning can strike >once, I guess it can strike twice. Would we >call that a "forced homecoming"? No, we could call that an Einsteinian thought experiment on simultaneousness and the ramifications in General Relativity. Now, if two meteors hit at the same instant, one on Mars and one on Earth, the ejected life forms in their rock spaceships could traverse to the other planets and set up housekeeping. You've got to note - The pyramids are made of rock. Heck, most all old things that are still around are made up of rock. What else would last so long? >WRT sending animals to other planetary bodies >within our solar system, I consider "lack of >purpose" to be a perfectly viable "political >reason" not to embark on such endeavours. Well, that may well be, but then you have to consider Al Gore. If NASA could prove there are trees on Mars you'd see us getting there by the middle of `97. That's the way politics works. Heck, microbes turned him on and he got Bill excited enough to consider making Paula Jones ambassador on a women`d mission to Mars. > For >example, why would we send a dog or a monkey >off to die on a planet that is incapable of >supporting conventional Earthly life? Same reason as we'd send troops to Bosnia. Not that we would do it, but some among us would. > You'd >think we would, at the very least, require a >vast ark, mated pairs, space >stations/kennels/zoos, and a flood every now >and then would come in handy for filling their >water bowls. Sounds familar. Have you been watching TV? > I agree that our initial attempts >to send animals into space is, by no means, >"migration". The Humane society would be the >most obvious "political" entity to raise >objections on this matter. It would also >likely make NASA look foolish, thereby risking >more funding cuts in the future. It's more >likely that such a plan would be devised as a >solution to prison overcrowding, much in the >same manner that England used Australia. Who >knows, maybe ETs are more 'exiled criminal' >than 'ambassador'. Taking this one step >further, these 'aliens' may be nothing more >than 'migrating' extra terrestrial pets on >very long leashes. Let's hope they remember >to curb their chupacabras! Best description of LA I have ever heard. >I'm not sure where I was going with all of this, >but I'd better stop now... Good, I was running out of foolishness and was about to wax wise. Lucky you! ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://www.sat.net/~pparri/SCRAPS http://pwp.value.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Jenny Randles?? From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:05:22 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:46:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Jenny Randles?? >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:47:56 +0100 (MET) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Jenny Randles > Does anybody happen to have Jenny Randles' email or > surface mail address? Anybody have any info? Thanks > in advance. > Jean * JR doesn't have email yet and moved recently. Now... 1 Hallsteads Close, Dove Holes, Buxton, Derbys SK17 8BS, UK -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Bob Rickard: Editor, Fortean Times email: bob@forteana.win-uk.net *"In the topography of intellection, knowledge is ignorance surrounded by laughter." (Charles Fort)* WWW homepage: http://www.forteantimes.com/ ## FT: Where the extraordinary is just another day at the office ##
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Project 1947 - PROJECT SIGN MICROFILMS [Corrected From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:52:26 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:47:26 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - PROJECT SIGN MICROFILMS [Corrected CORRECTED COPY (*See Item #2 below.) I have now looked at three of the four Project Sign microfilm rolls (Numbers 1, 8, and 9,) These were produced to be sent to USAF consultants for their evaluation of UFO cases. Unlike the Project Blue Book microfilms which are more or less arranged in chronological order, the Project Sign microfilms are organized by Incident numbers. (The incident numbers are not related to Project Blue Book case numbers.) There were indeed documents on the Project Sign microfilms that were not on the Project Blue Book microfilms. I was able to locate several "missing cases." (They were not really missing, more correctly they were incomplete.) A few interesting finds: 1. The Weekly ATC Intelligence Summary carried a section on "Flying Objects." The one for 16 July 1947 does not mention Roswell. The earlier one should be 9 July 1947. I doubt very much that it mentions Roswell either due to reaction time. We should try to get a complete set of these intelligence summaries as well as intel summaries for other commands for this period. * 2. As I was looking at the Blue Book and Sign microfilms, a thought occurred. The documents in the USAF UFO project are nearly all copies. There are few original documents. Now why would the Project Sign not have the originals? Most of the documents in later years are originals. Who received the Project Sign originals? Another project? (Some copies did came from HQ USAF. Some UFO reports had been sent only to USAF HQ, Washington. After Project Sign was created, a request was made to send these cases in the HQ USAF files to Wright Field. Cheap copiers did not exit in 1947. In the HQ USAF Intelligence UFO files, there was a staff study in about Oct 1947. The proposal was to copy all the material that Project Sign did not have and send it to them. The staff study was eventually approved. That would explain why SOME documents in Project Sign's files are copies. But not all.) (In early 1948, HQ USAF directed ATIC make copies of all ufo material and send it to ONI. This was probably for the joint study by the USAF Directorate of Intelligence and the Office of Naval Intelligence on UFOs which was completed in late 1948 and mis-characterized as "Ghost of the Estimate.") **There are some possible explanations for what seems to be the large amounts of copies on the Project Sign/Blue Book microfilms. There are multiple copies of "Project Sign Check List - UFO." These are contained in different Project Sign files (Case files and Summary files). The Project Sign microfilms were not of professional quality. They were apparently produced by Air Force personnel. The copies of the Project Sign microfilm I looked at are second generation. Some of these documents may appear to be copies. Ruppelt also complained, that to review some early case he had to look at poor quality microfilms. I still have some doubts about the large amount of copies in material from this era. 3. The Project Sign microfilm was not sanitized. 4. One microfilm (Roll #9) has almost a complete file of UFO case summaries on "Project Sign Check List - UFO" forms. This will fill in most of the "missing case" files on the Project Blue Book microfilms. (One other source of "missing case" material might be CUFOS. Dr. Hynek had large amounts Project Sign/Grudge/Blue Book material in his files. (Some of it might be copies from the Project Sign microfilm rolls as I can see defects on the microfilm that are similar to some of Dr. Hynek's copies. It will be interesting to see what the recently released Project Sign/Project Grudge files from the St. Louis record center, the Project Blue Book files, and these Project Sign microfilms together tell us about the early days of Air Force early UFO investigations. The Project Sign microfilm (Rolls #1, 7, 8 and 9), Ruppelt's catchall letter file ("Max File"--two rolls of letters to the USAF) and the USAF 1952 newspaper clipping collection (30 rolls of microfilm) presented to Dr. Herbert Stentz on his visit to Project Blue Book by LTC Hector Quinatanilla are now in Barry Greenwood' UFO collection. Dr. Strentz visited Project Blue Book to collect material for his PhD dissertation concerning UFOs and the Press. LTC Quintinilla was preparing to dispose of this microfilm when Dr. Strenz showed up. Apparently the other rolls containing the remaining Project Sign documents were destroyed. Who knows what other material LTC Quintinilla sent to the incinerator? Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 The Rockefeller Report 1/2 From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:32:27 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:40:27 -0500 Subject: The Rockefeller Report 1/2 I believe the devious Philip Mantle asked for this file. I suspect he needs it for his research for an upcoming magazine (UFO 2000?!?!). I would have a quick think about where the money cames from? Please pick an answer: * Lottery Fund * Autopsy Film Money * His hard earned savings Please give me your views ----------------------------------- From: Don Allen (1:3618/2.0) Subj: 01:Briefing Document Hi All, It may not sit too well with the folks who authored this document to have the _entire_ document being posted on computer networks. However, since I do have the complete 169 page document sitting here and have read through a large majority of it, it's my opinion that most of this information has already been released into the public domain over the last 25 years in one form or another, specifically, the case histories. For this reason, I feel that the smaller _overview_ of the document should be posted as opposed to the entire file. Italicized emphasis in the original document has been identified with the use of the underscore character. Any typo/scanner errors are most likely mine. This is being posted for Educational and Informational purposes only. Don ======================================================================== LETTER OF ENDORSEMENT for the BRIEFING DOCUMENT on UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS December 15, 1995 To whom it may concern: We believe that this Briefing Document on Unidentified Flying Objects presents the best available evidence for the existence of UFOs. Although just a brief sample of the scientific and military evidence available worldwide is given, it represents some of the most _carefully _documented incidents. While several governments of the world have dealt with this problem, as you can see in the enclosed report we think that these governments should make available now all the UFO evidence they have collected, for a thorough and open inquiry by the scientific community. The political constraints that imposed the rule of secrecy during the Cold War are no longer justified and the solution to the UFO mystery may represent both a scientific and social breakthrough. We, the undersigned, endorse the information contained in this Briefing Document as the best available evidence from open sources. CUFOS (Center for UFO Studies): President [signature] Dr. Mark Rodeghier FUFOR (Fund for UFO Research): Chairman [signature] Mr. Richard H. Hall MUFON (Mutual UFO Network): International Director [signature] and President Mr. Walter H. Andrus Acknowledgments Without the enthusiastic assistance of many people, the creation of this Briefing Document would have been far more difficult, if not impossible. While there are too many for us to thank individually, some deserve special recognition: Laurance S. Rockefeller, for his vision and support, financial and otherwise, and George Lamb, for his day-to-day interest and for serving so effectively as liaison for Mr. Rockefeller. Marie "Bootsie" Galbraith, for the original idea and for hundreds of hours of turning it into reality. Sandra Wright, for making her BSW Foundation available as the umbrella under which all the work could be done. Tina Nighman, for applying her talents and good humor to a wide range of administrative assistance. The leadership of the UFO Research Coalition: the Center for UFO Studies, the Fund for UFO Research and the Mutual UFO Network, for their cooperative efforts and total support. Major General Wilfred De Brouwer, Deputy Chief of the Royal Belgian Air Force; Dr. Claude Poher, founder of the Groupe d'Etudes des Phenomenes Aerospatiaux Non-identifie's (GEPAN), Jean-Jacques Velasco, Director of the Service d'Expertise des Phenomenes de Rentrees Atmospheriques (SEPRA); the Societe Belge d'Etude des Phenomenes Spatiaux (SOBEPS), and internationally recognized UFO authorities Stanton T. Friedman and Timothy Good, for generously giving their time and help. The Letter of Endorsement Acknowledgments Part 1. Overview ......................................................3 Government Secrecy ...............................................5 The Case for UFO Reality .........................................7 The UFO Cover-Up ................................................15 Summary of Quotations ...........................................19 Part 2. Case Histories ...............................................25 Introduction ....................................................27 1944-45: "Foo Fighters" Over Europe and Asia ...................31 1946: "Ghost Rockets Over Scandinavia" ......................33 1947: First American Sighting Wave ..........................37 1952: Second American Sighting Wave .........................41 1956: Radar/Visual Jet Chase Over England ...................45 1957: Third American Sighting Wave ..........................47 1958: Brazilian Navy Photographic Case ......................51 1964: Landing Case At Socorro, New Mexico ...................57 1967: Physiological Case At Falcon Lake, Canada .............61 1975: Strategic Air Command Bases UFO Alert .................65 1976: Multiple Witness Case In The Canary Islands ............69 1976: UFO Dog-Fight Over Tehran .............................75 1980: UFO Incidents at Rendlesham Forest, England .............79 1981: Physical Trace Case In Trans-en-Provence, France ......85 1986: Jet Chase Over Brazil .................................93 1986: Japan Airlines 747 Case Over Alaska ...................99 1989: Multiple Witness Case At Russian Missile Base ........103 1989-90: UFO Sighting Wave In Belgium .........................109 1991-94: Recent Cases .........................................115 Summary .......................................................117 Part 3. Quotations..................................................119 Appendices Characteristics of IFOs and UFOs ..............................159 Terminology of UFOs ...........................................160 International Agreements and Resolutions ......................161 Recommended Reading ...........................................166 Resource Catalogs .............................................167 CUFOS, FUFOR and MUFON ........................................168 Part 1. Overview - 5 - GOVERNMENT SECRECY In a democracy, the decision where to draw the line between a citizen's right to know and the government's right to secrecy for national security reasons must be made by appropriate members of the society. This issue has become the focus of much attention today and is especially relevant to an ongoing discussion, both inside and outside Congress, regarding UFO phenomena. For obvious reasons, military services and the intelligence agencies must maintain a certain amount of secrecy. However, in recent decades, and especially since the end of the Cold War, many observers believe that the use of government secrecy has become excessive. The power of government employees to restrict access to reports which they write by classifying them "confidential," "secret" or even "top secret" is often absolute. Once these reports are classified, they can only be declassified by the originator or by a special procedure that moves along at a glacial pace. Nor does the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) help very much. It does not apply to most classified material. Meanwhile, our criminal statutes protect against the unauthorized revelation of classified materials. Secrecy, like power, lends itself to abuse. Behind the shield of secrecy, it is possible for an agency or service to avoid scrutiny and essentially to operate outside of the law. Accountability to the taxpayers and to the Congress can be conveniently avoided. The vast majority of people employed by the U.S. government do not have access to classified information. Even those with secret and top secret clearances will not have access to all highly classified information. Furthermore, it is doubtful whether any member of Congress can have access to all such information. Given the size of the government bureaucracy and high degree of compartmentalization that exists within it, it is conceivable that even the President himself is not fully briefed on matters classified as "above top secret." Such information, allowing access only on the strictest "need-to-know" basis, is not necessarily given to senior elected officials who come and go and can therefore be regarded as temporary, political and unreliable. Such is the case for top secret UFO information. In 1980, for example, researchers requesting information through the FOIA learned of the existence of 156 top secret UFO-related documents held by the National Security Agency (NSA). This lead was not found through the NSA itself, but through internal references in UFO-related documents held by other government agencies. When the researchers filed a FOIA request for the 156 NSA UFO documents, they were denied access to all of them. They appealed, but Judge Gerhard Gesell of the First Federal Court, District of Columbia, after reviewing the 21-page written argument submitted by the NSA, denied their appeal. The 21-page summary was later released, but even in this summary most of the information was blacked out. ======================================================================== (1) Judge Gesell Ruling re National Security Agency, November 14, 1980. ======================================================================== - 6 - Such action seems inconsistent with a government that officially downplays the existence of true UFOs, and officially states that there is no threat to national security. In the case of UFO phenomena, the question must be asked: what would give an un-elected government official the right to keep this information to himself, thereby depriving the rest of the world of possible knowledge of almost inconceivable magnitude and consequence? Such elitism by the officials of any government, much less a government based on the principles of democracy and individual rights, is a gross injustice not only to its ovn people, but to all people. At issue, in this case, is access to knowledge perhaps so profound that it affects not only our very perspective on man's place in the universe, but also perhaps his continued presence on this planet. If the UFO phenomenon is real, we have clear evidence that an unknown technology is at work, whose potential could be enormous for the good of mankind - a potential source, for example, for useful energy benign to the environment. To acknowledge the enormous gap between our present understanding of science and what is being evidenced, would provide the urgently needed challenge to the scientific establishment to examine where some of its basic assumptions might be faulty and to move berond them. Is it possible that a few privileged individuals have access to this information while denying it to the electorate for "national security" reasons, so that it can be privately studied? In a democracy, should not this decision be made by our _elected officials and be based upon an informed discussion? "UFO research is leading us kicking and screaming into the science of the twenty-first century. "I have begun to feel that there is a tendency in 20th Century science to forget that there will be a 21st Century science, and indeed a 30th Century science from which vantage points our knowledge of the universe may appear quite different than it does to us. We suffer, perhaps, from temporal provincialism, a form of arrogance that has always irritated posterity." (From a letter by Dr. J. Allen Hynek to Science magazine, August 1. 1966.) Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Northwestern University astronomer; scientific consultant on UFOs to the U.S. Air Force from 1948 until 1969. Founder of the private Center for UFO Studies in 1973. - 7 - THE CASE FOR UFO REALITY As long as men and women have talked about strange sights in the skies, two primary questions have been asked about what has come to be called Unidentified Flying Objects: 1. Are they real, or are they just honest mistakes? 2. If they are real, could they be ships from some other world? In this century, it started with the "foo fighters" of World War II: glowing balls that flew in formation or "played tag" with military airplanes over Europe and the Pacific. Suspected of being prototype enemy weapons, they never displayed hostility and when the war was over, they were all-but-forgotten. In 1946, the Scandinavian countries reported many hundreds of "ghost rockets" which flew low and silently, and often slowly. Efforts to blame them on nearby Soviet tests of captured German missiles failed when it was learned that no such tests had taken place. The first major American wave of sightings of "flying discs" began in the early summer of 1947. Within two weeks, at least 1,000 sightings were recorded of fast silvery discs seen in the daytime. The first military studies concluded they were real and of unknown nature and origin. (2) >From then on, UFOs seemed to fly at will over all parts of the world: fast and exotic, untouchable and and unproven. By the 1990s, there had been over 100,000 reported sightings, many by airline pilots and military pilots and other qualified witnesses. Despite the steady accumulation of a vast quantity of information about the appearance and behavior of UFOs, little light has been shed on the two questions posed at the beginning. The armed services and universities, as well as private groups and individuals, have devoted a great amount of time to investigating UFOs, yet there is no consensus about their nature, origins or purpose. Still, if a close look is taken at the best available evidence, it is possible to deal with what is known about UFOs, and what may reasonably be assumed. The point we will make is that the evidence to support the conclusion that UFOs are unknown aircraft/spacecraft seems to be overwhelming. ======================================================================== (2) Memo from Lt. Gen. Nathan Twining, Commanding General of the Air Materiel Command, Wright Field, to Gen. Spaatz, Commanding General of the U.S. Army Air Forces, September 23, 1947. ======================================================================== - 8 - Visual Evidence Most of what is "known" about UFOs comes from individuals' descriptions of what they say they saw. If the individuals are reliable and knowledgeable about the sky, the information stands a good chance of being useful. This is the source of the case's "credibility," one of the two primary criteria recognized by the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek, long a consultant on UFOs to the U.S. Air Force, and later the founder of the private Center for UFO Studies. Dr. Hynek's other criterion is "strangeness," meaning the extent to which a reported observation differs from normal airplanes, satellites, meteors, etc. A large aluminum-looking sphere which maneuvers violently and changes speed abruptly, rates higher for "strangeness" than a somewhat peculiar light seen in the night sky. It is the reports which rate highest in both "credibility" and "strangeness" that form the heart of the UFO mystery. Are they indeed convincing observations of unknown aircraft/spacecraft, or are they merely strangely shaped clouds or balloons seen under unusual lighting conditions, or some other natural or manmade phenomena? Radar Evidence Radar has played a major role in UFO sightings, repeatedly confirming the presence of something unidentified which responds to radar much as an airplane does. Clouds and other weather phenomena show up on radar, but any experienced operator can tell the difference between weather and something solid. On popular explanation for radar/visual reports is temperature inversion. This was first brought to public attention following two nights of UFO sightings over Washington D.C., in 1952. Inversions, the cause of mirages, probably never caused these or any other UFO reports. According to a 1969 study by the Air Force Environmental Technical Applications Center, the conditions needed to produce the UFO-like effects attributed to inversions cannot exist in the Earth's atmosphere. (3) The most thoroughly investigated recent radar/visual UFO sightings occurred in Belgium and Russia. Military jet interceptors were launched following observations from the ground. Ground-based and airborne radars then confirmed what was being seen visually, including high speeds and violent maneuvers far beyond the capability of the best modern warplanes. In both countries, high government officials admitted they were baffled. While the human eye can be fooled, and radar can be fooled, it is considered extremely unlikely that both can be fooled, in exactly the same way, at exactly the same time. Thus radar/visual reports rate among the most convincing of all types of UFO sightings. ============================================================== (3) Menkello, F.V., "Quantitative Aspects of Mirages," USAF Environmental Technical Applications Center, 1969. ============================================================== - 9 - Physical Evidence UFOs have been seen high in the sky, near to the ground, on the ground, and even rising from water. If some UFOs have landed, it is reasonable to suspect that some of them may have left traces behind, and indeed that is the case. Imprints, residues, charred and broken tree branches and rocks are among the bits of evidence claimed for UFO landings. Furthermore, under microscopic examination, some residues exhibit strange and unusual characteristics. Perhaps the most well known example of a physical trace case in the United States occurred in 1964 near Socorro, New Mexico, where a policeman reported seeing an egg-shaped craft sitting on slender legs in an open field. When it had flown away, he and a second policeman inspected the area where it had been parked and found depressions in the dirt, as well as still smoldering, blackened shrubs. The sighting was investigated within two hours by men from U.S. Army Intelligence and the FBI, followed a day later by the chief civilian scientific consultant to Project Blue Book (the official Air Force investigation of UFO sightings). All agreed that the primary witness was highly reliable. Later, the final director of Blue Book called this case the most puzzling of the approximately 12,500 in his files. The best documented example of a physical trace case in Europe occurred in Trans-en-Provence, France, where a farmer reported seeing a saucer-shaped craft land on his property and then fly away after a short while. Physical traces left on the ground were collected by the police within 2 hours and later analyzed in several French government laboratories. Microscopic analyses revealed anomalous biochemical and electromagnetic effects on the soil and vegetation. The diector of the Service d'Expertise des Phenomenes de Rentrees Atmospheriques (SEPRA, formerly called GEPAN) at the National Center for Space Studies (CNES) describes this case as the most puzzling UFO case in the French government files. (5) Government Statements The involvement of the American government in the UFO mystery has long offered its own set of questions. Known investigations have produced ambiguous results, and explanations offered for specific cases have frequently been at odds with scientific reasoning. Sometimes, little-publicized official statements have supported the position that UFOs are real and unexplained. ============================================================== (4) Steiger Brad, ed. _Project Blue Book, Ballantine Books, 196. (5) GEPAN, Note Technique No. 16 Enquete 81/01, _Analyse d'une Trace, Toulouse, March 1, 1983. (English translation published in the MUFON UFO Journal, March 1984.) ============================================================== - 10 - Sometimes statements not intended for the public have been brought to the surface by UFO researchers: July 30, 1947: "This Flying saucer" situation is not all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomena. Something is really flying around. (6) Sept. 23, 1947: "The phenomenon reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious. " (7) Oct. 28, 1947. "It is the considered opinion of some elements that the object [sic may in fact represent an interplanetary craft of some kind." (8) Dec. 10, 1948: "It must be accepted that some type of flying objects have been observed, although their identification and origin are not discernible." (9) In 1948, the U.S. Air Force opened a publicly-known UFO investigation called Project Sign. Later, it became Project Grudge and finally Project Blue Book. In 1955, the U.S. Air Force released a study of 3,200 UFO reports it had received between 1947 and 1952. The private Battelle Memorial Institute used the Air Force data to arrive at its own conclusions: of the cases for which there was some conclusion, almost 50% were either unexplained, or doubtfully explained. Moreover, it was determined that the higher the qualifications of the witnesses, the harder it was to explain the reports in terms of common phenomena. (10) In 1967, as Project Blue Book was coming under increasing attack from the press and the public, the Air Force contracted with the University of Colorado to make a final study of UFOs. In contrast to the totally negative statements of the study director, Dr. Edward U. Condon, the body of the f1nal report showed that about 30% of the cases studied were left without explanation. Comments on individual cases by University of Colorado scientists included: ============================================================== (6) Air Force Base Intelligence Report, "Flying Discs," AFBIR-CO, July 30, 1947. (7) Twining, ibid (8) Draft Intelligence Collections Memorandum issued by Brig. Gen. George Shulgen, Chief of the Air Intelligence Requirements Division of the Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force, October 28, 1947. (9) U.S. Air Intelligence Report 100-203-79, "Analysis of Flying Objects in the U.S.," December 10, 1948. (10) Air Force Project Blue Book, "Special Report No. 14 (Analysis of Reports of Unidentified Aerial Objects)," May 5, 1955. ============================================================== - 11 - "This is the most puzzling case in the radar/visual files. The apparently rational, intelligent behavior of the UFO suggests a mechanical device of unknown origin as the most probable explanation. "All factors investigated - geometric, psychological and physical - appear to be consistent with the assertion that an extraordinary flying object, silvery, metallic, disc-shaped, tens of meters in diameter, and evidently artificial, flew within sight of two witnesses. " (11) Following the recommendation of the University of Colorado, Project Blue Book was ended in late 1969, after almost 22 years of Air Force official investigations. It left behind approximately 12,500 case files, of which 585 were officially declared "Unknown." This means that the project staff felt it had sufficient information about a case, but were unable to supply a full explanation of it. Cases lacking sufficient information for meaningful analysis were kept separate. Furthermore, an official memo was released years later, under the Freedom of Information Act, that made it clear that "reports of unidentified flying objects _which could affect national security... are not part of the Blue Book system." [emphasis added]. Such reports "would continue to be handled through the standard Air Force procedures designed for this purpose." (12) In summary, it is apparent that the evidence - visual, radar and physical - strongly suggests that more than mistaken observations of conventional phenomena are involved in many UFO sightings. Witness testimony, backed up by official U.S. government documents, point toward the presence in the Earths atmosphere of apparently manufactured craft that cannot be explained as mistaken observations of acknowledged aircraft, spacecraft, atmospheric or astronomical phenomena. The Case For Extraterrestrial UFOs If UFOs are not anything known, then they must be unknown. What says "unknown" more powerfully than extraterrestrial?" In the absence of any specific knowledge of even a single extraterrestrial civilization, there are no constraints on theorizing about the nature, technology and behavior of one or more hypothesized alien cultures. But are UFOs extraterrestrial? Lacking proof, we must deal very carefully with any answers. It remains a possibility that some or all of the otherwise unexplained UFO reports ============================================================== (11) Gillmor, Daniel S., ed., _Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects, New York Times Books, 1969. (12) Bolender, Brig. Gen. C.H., USAF, Memo re Project Blue Book, October 20, 1969. ============================================================== - 12 -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 The Rockefeller Report 2/2 From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:32:37 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:41:31 -0500 Subject: The Rockefeller Report 2/2 will some day be explained in terms of as-yet-unknown natural phenomena, or secret highly advanced man-made aircraft and/or spacecraft. Nevertheless, there are impressive reasons for speculating about the extraterrestrial origin for some UFOs, namely their shapes and their performance. Shapes of UFOs Most UFOs observed in daylight, when shapes and details can be seen, have been described as having simple geometric shapes: discs, spheres, cylinders and more recently, triangles. Disc-shaped airplanes have been flown, but none is known to have exceeded 150 mph, nor to have other capabilities displayed by UFOs. Difficulties in stability and control have so far prevented any disc-shaped aircraft from getting beyond the stage of low-performance prototypes. Spherical aircraft have so far been limited to gas-filled balloons, whose performance is at the bottom of the speed and maneuverability scales. Balloons can fly only as the wind blows and can be overtaken quickly by airplanes. Cylindrical aircraft are unknown, as the lack of wings poses huge problems when it comes to such functions as taking off and flying level. Rockets and missiles are cylindrical and certainly are able to fly, but only as the result of great power in relation to their size. They cn only fly upwards up at launch, and on a ballistic curve on their way to a target. Triangle is the shape of delta-winged airplanes, though the flight characteristics of triangular UFOs removes them from this category. It is entirely possible that some radical military aircraft having one or more of these shapes are flying from super-secret test facilities.=7F But this would have to be a recent development unable to explain sightings of such craft during most of the past 50 years. Performance of UFOs Even more striking than the shapes of UFOs is their performance: speed, acceleration, maneuverability, silence. Speed. UFOs have been tracked on military radar travelling silently at several thousand miles per hour well within the Earth's atmosphere. An airplane attempting this would create an inescapable sonic boom before melting from friction with the air. Extreme Acceleration. Airplanes do not visibly accelerate in the air, though they show generally impressive acceleration during take-off. Drag-racing cars and motorcycles accelerate in a manner obvious to even the least experienced observer. In the case of - 13 - UFOs, airline and military pilots have reported that they fly at the same speed as an airplane, and then display acceleration common only to anti-missile missiles. Veteran pilots describe their observations with words like "astounding" and "unbelievable." Extreme Maneuverability. While airplanes can perform abrupt maneuvers, these are generally seen only in air shows. Even then, such flying is more often described by the outside observer as "graceful" rather than "violent," though the pilot may use the latter term. Impossibilities for airplanes (but not, apparently, for UFOs) include right-angle turns at high speed, and zig-zag flight. Silent Hovering. While helicopters and VTOL (Vertical Take-Off and Landing) airplanes can hover, they produce noises whose quality and volume positively identify them. UFOs, on the other hand, appear able to hover with little or no motion for long periods without any sound. This remains well beyond the state of known science, let alone technology. Summary The U.S. Government, and many other governments, claim that although not all UFO reports can be explained, there is no evidence that Earth has been visited by aliens. Most scientists and leading journalists agree with this position. However, these same scientists believe that there must be many advanced civilizations on planets orbiting the billions of stars they estimate to exist in the universe. The gap between these two positions is generally explained by the assumed inability of even the most advanced society to travel the enormous distances separating the Earth from even the nearest stars. Yet there are thousands of sightings of novel, high-performance craft in our skies, reported by highly skilled and experienced observers. There are also hundreds of other reports of craft seen on the ground, and sometimes of humanoid beings in their vicinity. The great conflict between official positions and trustworthy observations constitutes the mystery of Unidentified Flying Objects. A possible solution to this mystery is the suggestion that the official position is based on an elaborate cover-up. If it is a cover-up, what then is being protected, and by whom? The answers to these questions generally focus on the issue of national security as well as fear of the public reaction to an official disclosure of UFO reality and its extraterrestrial origin. The question of extraterrestrial intention and the frightening aspects of the alleged abduction phenomena could be extremely disturbing. However, many researchers believe that it is the science and technology behind the national security veil which lies at the heart of the secrecy, and that: - fallen discs are being reverse engineered, repaired and/or copied, and being tested; - 14 - - the technology is so advanced that we can barely imagine the science behind it (which could be based on a fundamentally different understanding of gravity and electromagnetic fields); - whichever nation masters this extraordinary technology will certainly be the most powerful nation on earth; - in the opinion of those in control, the guarding of this technology for defense purposes, far outweighs its potential value for other purposes - i.e. a non-polluting, cost efficient solution to our present energy and environmental crisis. - 15 - THE UFO COVER-UP There are two major elements to the UFO mystery: the UFOs themselves and the intensive efforts by the governments of the world to withhold information about them. Neither the nature nor the purpose of the governments' actions are clearly understood. But this policy dates back to the latter part of World War II when UFO-like "foo fighters" were being reported by combat pilots. A report about "foo-fighters" is said to have been prepared in 1945 by the United States Eighth Air Force, but no copy has been seen by the public, despite the passing of a half century. A year later, when "ghost rockets" were seen over Scandinavia, the Swedish Government invoked secrecy and only began to release information 40 years later. When "flying saucers" appeared over the USA in the summer of 1947, only the most general information was made public, while reports and analyses were kept under wraps, as was the fact that the government was taking the saucers seriously. (13, 14) The U.S. Air Force ongoing UFO investigation (Project Sign, Project Grudge, and Project Blue Book), collected more than 12,000 reports, most of which were "explained." It was official policy to refuse to comment on "unexplained" cases. By keeping case details secret, the public was kept from learning that many of the allegedly-explained cases had not been analyzed by generally accepted scientific standards. (15) In 1976, with the amendment of the Freedom of Information and Privacy Act by the U.S. Congress, a mechanism was created for unearthing government UFO information whose very existence had long been denied. Formal requests, followed by appeals and sometimes legal action, produced thousands of pages of previously-classified documents from the Air Force, Central Intelligence Agency, Federal Bureau of Investigation and other intelligence-oriented agencies. It appears, however, that the released information was the least sensitive material in the official files. Almost all the released documents had been classified merely "Confidential" or "Secret," with just a few having been "Top Secret". Many pages of these documents showed the black marks of censorship. In fact, many pages of the voluminous case files of the official U.S. Air Force investigation contained black marks hiding information. (16) The rapid flow of UFO documents in the 1970s dropped to a slow trickle in the 1980s, but will probably pick up again with the Administration's recent declassification measures. However, since every government agency has at its disposal a long list of reasons for [Note: This file appears to be incomplete, but it should be available on the web somewhere. If you find it on the web, please send the URL to the webmaster so we can add it to this file.]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Lord Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jan 97 10:45:03 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:33:25 -0500 Subject: Lord Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:35:11 -0500 (EST) >From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> >Subject: Hill Noton Enquiry from alistair (fwd) >From: Ian Ramsey <earthrite@gn.apc.org> ...wrote; >Have you not seen the >stuff published by the present incumbent (I think his name is Nick Pope) >of the MOD desk for UFO stuff, its certainly not for cerebral hygiene type >skeptics or the fearful? Nick Pope is not that informed on anything on the subject. One would think this is surprising as the last AS2A. Anyway, he's currently working on the follow up to 'Closed Minds' and contributing to a UK magazine, whose name I forget. No mental hygiene here. The present incumbant of the AS2A desk is the forthright and downright chatty Kerry Philpott. >Admiral of the Fleet The Lord Hill-Norton, GCB, Good to see he's still at it, but perhaps someone should point him away from Nexus? James D, Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76710.234 | d005734c |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life - (Trent pix) From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jan 97 11:01:21 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:34:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life - (Trent pix) > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:35:02 +0100 (MET) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Jean van Gemert <jeanvg@dds.nl> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life Jean van Gemert enquired: > I've got a question about one of your books. In it, you address the Trent > photos, but you also print a color photo of a similar, but not identical, > object taken at the same? site, but with completely different foliage. Do > you have any verifiable source for that picture? I.e. references to other > *reliable* UFO literature? What's the exact story behind it? Well, looky here. This ought to tell us something about memory and observation. You're dead right. On page 52 of "UFO: The complete sightings..." (O how I hate that title) there does indeed appear a photograph strikingly similar to one of the Trent photos but not the same as either of those usually presented... Certainly the tree's grown a lot! The photo printed came from the Mary Evans picture library, but where they got it from I don't know. However! I've spoken on the electric telephone to Hilary Evans, who will start tracking it down on Monday when he's back in the library. He is reasonably sure that the color is added, not in the original. He hadn't noticed the discrepancies either. This means the picture has cropped up elsewhere purporting to be the real thing... Groan. I'll let you know ASAP whatever Hilary finds out. Meanwhile, a couple of tentative hypotheses. Bruce Maccabee implies in his article in Ronald Story's "UFO Encyclopedia" that he took photographs at the Trent farm in July 1977, but doesn't print them there and doesn't say if he strung up a model as well for comparison. A picture exists too of William Hartmann (Condon's investigator, who visited the Trents in June 1967) stringing up a model, but my source doesn't indicate whether this was done on the premises or elsewhere or even if the exercise related to the Trent case. His account in Condon doesn't mention running such a test; he seems to have relied on photometry. Maybe someone else out there knows of others who may have tried a reconstruction on-site. Apart from all that, thanks very much for pointing this out. One more caption to re-write. No doubt it's good for the soul. best wishes P. Mendoza Darkhorse-Brandyscribe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:15:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:13:26 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - After I mentioned Michael Persinger's "impressive" research on UFO and earthquakes, Chris Rutkowski corrected me: > *impressive-seeming* research, you mean, Greg! His methodology > is flawed; he once showed how, statistically, airplanes and stars > misidentified as UFOs were linked to distant, mild quakes six months > before the UFOs (IFOs) were actually observed! Thanks, Chris. I'd already edited my mental Persinger file after reading your earlier posts. I guess I was bending over backwards to be fair to someone I'd just called a "crackpot." Guess I was right the first time. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Test Message - Please Ignore From: No One Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:10:58 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:02:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message - Please Ignore This is a test message, loved by no one. It was never sent to the mailing list. Quotes should now appear in red. Test Link: http://www.ufomind.com/area51 Test Link: www.ufomind.com/area51 > Test Quote: Ought to appear in Red > Test Quote > Test Quote > Test Quote +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Test Message - Please Ignore 2 From: No One Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:10:58 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:09:04 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message - Please Ignore 2 This is a test message, loved by no one. It was never sent to the mailing list. Quotes should now appear in red. Test Link: http://www.ufomind.com/area51 Test Link: www.ufomind.com/area51 > Test Quote: Ought to appear in Red > Test Quote > Test Quote > Test Quote +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Test Message - Please Ignore 3 From: No One Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:10:58 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:13:01 -0800 Subject: Re: Test Message - Please Ignore 3 This is a test message, loved by no one. It was never sent to the mailing list. Quotes should now appear in red. Test Link: http://www.ufomind.com/area51 Test Link: www.ufomind.com/area51 > Test Quote: Ought to appear in Red > Test Quote > Test Quote > Test Quote +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 12 Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in National From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:54:44 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:11:45 -0500 Subject: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in National New article found at: http://www.nationalenquirer.com/1_14_97/ufo.html Backup at: http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1997/jan/d11-001.shtml Gordon Cooper Link Page: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cooperg "In a world exclusive interview, Cooper has broken his silence to become the first astronaut to speak openly about alien spacecraft. He says there's been a massive government cover-up of UFOs for nearly 50 years - and insists the American public has a right to know the truth." +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 12 Mendoza's Secret Life From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:55:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:09:48 -0500 Subject: Mendoza's Secret Life UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:53:52 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: counterintelligence nonsense > >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:27:59 -0600 (CST) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Project 1947 - 'UFO: The Government' > [snip] > > Brian Zieler posts a challenge to Peter Brookesmith. Peter doesn't > believe the American government has any secret knowledge of UFOs, > and says so in his latest book. > That lead Brian to suspect that Peter is employed by counterintelligence > and DEMANDS that Peter prove his innocence, even to the point of > granting permission for others to search for damning documents under > the Freedom of Information Act: > This is outrageous. So is the book. > Is it impossible, now, for someone to be an honest UFO skeptic? No that's not impossible but there is no evidence of an honest skeptical approach in this book. > Is merely publishing skeptical views about UFOS supposed to be prima facie > evidence that someone works for the government? If character assasination, misrepresentation and disinformation qualify as UFO skepticism then maybe I misread the book. > Gregs personal experinces snipped < > We <do> know that UFO skeptics exist. We know they publish books. The > government conspiracy can't possibly be so widespread that every > expression of opinion is controlled. If someone publishes a skeptical > book, we ought to assume that he or she is just expressing personal > opinion...unless we have concrete, detailed, <tangible> proof that > something bigger is involved. Yes, skeptics do exist and they do publish books. However, intelligence operations do target the mind and thoughts of individuals and the public in general. Journalists are a common cover for intelligence operatives. Just this year in Congressional hearings this was discussed once again; this is old news and a very old, very useful cover. Many businesses serve as covers or channels for dissemination of information publishers have certainly been encouraged or discouraged by governments to withhold or promote certain points of view. For disinformation to operate successfully it has to be provided in many forms, levels and in different media. People who don't buy into scientific disinformation such as that offered by Phil Klass may be influenced by a historical approach or even one based on sarcastic humor or even cartoons published in national newspapers. Become aware of how past intelligence operations have worked. There are many signs of an operative counterintelligence operation at work in the UFO field. There is no reason to dismiss this possibility apriori. > Very concerned, and, as I said, outraged, You are of course entitled to this opinion; however, this of course begs addressing the issues that aroused Brian's suspicions about this book in the first place. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Comments on Discovery Program From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jan 97 13:21:25 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:12:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on Discovery Program >Date: 11 Jan 97 05:31:44 EST >From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Comments on Discovery Progs. >Regarding the above I sincerely hope that Bob Shell investigates other >matters and sources rather more thoroughly: >Four Winds who produced the four Discovery TV shows are actually based >in Leeds, England and to the best of my knowledge the shows were put >together in London and Leeds based on film taken world wide. >Their researcher, Mary Davies, also comes from Leeds as does Martin >Belderson, one of their producers. A group of people less likeley to >be putting out disinformation I have yet to come across. >The four shows were commendable that in spite of being made mainly for >an American market they dared to present a fairly scpetical view of the >subject without debunking it. Therefore they *must* be working for >the government! >I was used as a 'consultant' on the show so I feel qualified to comment >on this matter - but then again the monthly cheque from the MOD helps! I said that I had not looked into this allegation myself. I forwarded it FWIW. My correspondent said the programs originated from the studios of WETA (Channel 26) in DC. I have no way of knowing. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 03:12:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:10:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Drake's Ark > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:02:57 -0500 > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > Date: Thu, 9 Jan 97 15:04:58 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > This is getting interesting! > >From: KRandle993@aol.com > >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:12:46 -0500 (EST) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > >In a message dated 97-01-08 01:53:20 EST, Pat writes: > ><< > Ed Steward slipped a cog when he said; > > > >Really? I was not aware there was a record of migration or colonization > > > >to another planet. Would you please enlighten the list? Inquiring minds > > > >would like to know. > > > Two words. "Mars rock" > > > ~Pat~ > > > Gotcha! :-D > > >Thanks Pat, > > >We have also left a variety of instrumentation and machines on other > > >planetary bodies, e.g. moon, Venus, Mars, etc. Besides we have long had > > >it within our technical capabilities to send animals to other planetary > > >bodies but haven't either for lack of purpose or political reasons. > >None of which is a migration. > > Mars rock aliens were sent on a forced migration. > > :) > > ~Pat~ > I'm not sure why, but I feel compelled to jump in here... > > Pat, are you defining a meteor crashing into > Mars with the force to send a rock flying to > Earth as "forced migration"? I'd call it "forced", surely those bacteria didn't ask to be blasted into space <grin>. Now if we only knew whether or not the Disney test leak on the living, ammonia requiring, bacteria found in meteorites was true or not. Then we would might have a once in the universe example. > I guess I'm a > little more comfortable with that notion than > I am with defining fossilized remains of a > long-dead microscopic organism as an "alien". > Someone even suggested that perhaps these > organisms were originally propelled from Earth > to Mars by the same cataclysmic set of > circumstances that sent them flying back to > Earth once again. If lightning can strike > once, I guess it can strike twice. Would we > call that a "forced homecoming"? > WRT sending animals to other planetary bodies > within our solar system, I consider "lack of > purpose" to be a perfectly viable "political > reason" not to embark on such endeavours. For > example, why would we send a dog or a monkey > off to die on a planet that is incapable of > supporting conventional Earthly life? I mentioned it thinking of it as a component of terraforming, James Oberg and others have written we might export entire ecosystems to other planets. Symposia have been held dealing with this topic. > I'm not sure where I was going with all of this, > but I'd better stop now... I agree, that is it for me too. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 UpDates From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:03:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:03:01 -0500 Subject: UpDates You have not been not receiving UFO UpDates... The List has been _very_ quiet for the past couple of days - I've been working preping the new ER hiatus replacement 5 parter from the mind of Steven Boccio (sp), he of Hill Street Blues, etc. Long 18 hour days with some sleep between. One more day and I'll be able to devote most of my days to the List again. Apologies to those of you hopping from foot to foot - as one or two messages asking about mail seem to suggest. _Some back log will follow with more to come tomorrow (Tuesday) night. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: The Anomalist From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:44:43 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:07:37 -0500 Subject: Re: The Anomalist At 11:50 AM 1/4/97 -0500, you wrote: >Date: 04 Jan 97 08:45:26 EST >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Anomalist > >Greg wrote; > >[The anomalist] > >>> Probably she'd [Rebecca] second the opinion I have, which is that > it's a damn fine piece of work. Intelligent, informed, and even > literate. Dennis can be as shameless as he likes. He's entitled. << > >Also seconded, from the one I've been privy to see, briefly. Has anyone got >subscription information? > >James D, > >________________________ > >Let's see how long it takes the SA Sasquatch to >respond to _this_ one! <G> > >ebk Dear James: Well, it took me awhile to reply, actually! Subscriptions are supposed to be available from the same people who distribute Fortean Times in America. Their toll-free number is 1-888-427-3362. A year's subscription (two issues) is $25.00. If for some reason that doesn't work, I have all four present back issues on hand. TA5 will be out this spring. Each issue is $9.95 plus $2.50 postage & handling. If two or more issues are ordered, postage is only $3.00. Write: Dennis Stacy Box 12434 San Antonio Texas 78212 Please make any check or MO out to Dennis Stacy and _not_ The Anomalist if ordering this way. The phone number will also accept credit cards. Thanks for your interest! Dennis Stacy Co-editor The Anomalist PS: For more information, you might want to check our Web page: http://www.cloud9.net/~patrick/anomalist
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:18:24 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:08:55 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- Per > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 16:34:10 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > With respect to: Persinger's "magic helmet" > >I wonder if they ever tried the helmet on a real abductee to get an > >accurate comparison from someone who knows the real thing? > I willing. > > ~Pat~ Yes, Pat, you would be the first vict- ... I mean, *volunteer* I would like to see tested! ;) -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows | pparri |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Mantle, Oberg and STS-80 From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:06:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:06:15 -0500 Subject: Mantle, Oberg and STS-80 <<Hold your breath. What would Oberg say about the STS-80 UFO's, and the discovery that Clementine photo's have been altered and rather clumsily so. See for yourself...>> What was the clock time of the STS-80 sightings? And please send me a hard copy of the photo you want me to comment on, I don't run all the modern software for image transmission. Jim Oberg Rt 2 Box 350 Dickinson, TX77539 USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 {68} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:30:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:10:11 -0500 Subject: {68} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' January 11th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K Issue 68 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ {68} UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK - part 1 of 2 This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number and part/s that are missing. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {68} parts 1/2 United Kingdom News [U1] Into Battle For Britain, The Plane That Needs No Pilot [U2] Nightmare on Salisbury Plain, British Soldiers Encounter 'Black Triangle' on Night Manoeuvres. Alien Craft or Top Secret Military Experiment? Or BOTH [U3] Copped, One Flying Saucer [U4] Experts Baffled By UFO [U5] Did High-Speed Military Jet Pursue UFO Across Skies At Night? [U6] "UFO Abductee" Set For Soft Landing With $2M Payout World News [W1] Outcry Over Space Monkeys [W2] Rumors Of Aliens Trail Comet [W3] When Rumors Make The News [W4] Growing National Paranoia, Conspiracy Mania [W5] Find Adds To Strife On Mars [W6] NASA bids fond farewell to Carl Sagan [W7] Coppola Sues Carl Sagan [W8] It's A Bird, It's A Plane, It's A Mystery Ball! Editorial --------- The UK.UFO.NW www page has now moved to a new site and hence has a new address. Please make a note of the following url and add it to your browsers bookmarks. http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk The site is currently under construction while things are moved across, altered, changed, updated etc. etc. The re-opening of the site will be announced through these pages and through an online web page at the site. Secure e-mail addresses ----------------------- We would like to advise all subscribers that their e-mail addresses are secure on this list. No persons (inc subscribers) other than the list owners have access to any of the e-mail addresses of this group. No e-mail addresses are made available to any other organization or group. Little Green Men Home Page Back! -------------------------------- After months of inactivity the Little Green Men web site has been totally revamped! In construction at the moment, in association with the UK UFO Network is a large archive of UFO related news stories that have appeared in the worlds press since 1954! As well as this huge archive the site will also carry the very latest news too, so why not pop along to the new Little Green Men Home Page at: http://www.nolimits.demon.co.uk/ UK News [U1]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Tuesday 17th December 1996 Into Battle For Britain, The Plane That Needs No Pilot By John Deans The RAF could be eqipped with pilotless attack aircraft in the next century, the Government revealed last night. The next generation of bombers could be computer-controlled jets, Defence Procurement Minister James Arbuthnot told MPs. Alternatively, the RAF strike capability may be centred on massive transport aircraft packed with cruise missiles, or a variation of the planned new Eurofighter due to enter service at the turn of the century. Announcing a 35 million pounds Sterling feasibility study into the options for Britain's 'future offensive air system', Mr Arbuthnot made clear that plans to replace the existing air defence Tornado F3 jets with the Eurofighter were not in question. However, a replacement for the now outdated Tornado GR4 ground attack aircraft, which proved so vunerable to ground fire in the Gulf War, was still to be decided and 'may not even be a conventional fast jet. It could be a revolutionary unmanned aircraft, known in the Ministry of Defence jargon as an 'uninhabited air vehicle'. This would be 'flown' from a virtual reality cockpit either at a base or, more likely, aboard an AWACS radar 'mothership' circling outside the combat area. It is expected to take months, possibly years, to study the full range of future technologies. Even U.S. style stealth jets will be considered, although stringent cost disciplines will apply to any project. [U2]****** uk.ufo.nw says: Below is the newspaper report that we featured in the last issue {67}. After that you will find a further most interesting report. Source: Daily Express newspaper Date: Tuesday 3rd December 1996 UFO left soldier in a trance A soldier under hypnosis has recalled how he was left dazed and terrified by a UFO. News of the alleged incident, which happened while he was on night exercise on Salisbury Plain with five comrades, has just been revealed. Put into a trance at the request of close encounter sleuths from the magazine UFO Reality, he told how the party was zapped by beams of light from a mysterious black triangular aircraft. The alleged sighting, in 1990, happened in a part of the area said to house a secret Ministry of Defence compound. Investigators believe it could have been connected with top secret technology rather than an alien craft. Source: UFO Reality Date: December 96 / January 97 From: Duncan@life.com Nightmare on Salisbury Plain British Soldiers Encounter 'Black Triangle' on Night Manoeuvres. Alien Craft or Top Secret Military Experiment? Or BOTH Jon King investigates Encounter Six British soldiers encountered a large black triangular UFO whilst on night manoeuvres on Salisbury Plain. The encounter occurred close to Dunch Hill Plantation, which separates the well known Bulford Range from a highly secret MoD compound on Salisbury Plain. The soldiers (all names on file) were hiking from a place called Beach's Barn to Dunch Hill Plantation when the encounter took place. A few weeks ago I interviewed one of the soldiers in question. For his own security I will refer to him as 'Mark'. "It really did my head in," Mark told me, still visibly shaken by what he and the others had witnessed, even though it is now six years since the incident occurred. "It was weird, really weird. We were about 400 metres from our destination (Dunch Hill Plantation) when suddenly this craft just appeared there above the tree tops. It was massive. And black. Very black. The next thing I remember we were 600 metres away from where we were supposed to be - all six of us bending over a map, trying to figure out where we were and how the hell we'd ended up there. I still can't remember how we ended up that far off course." According to Mark, the entire manoeuvre was a mystery to the six soldiers from the outset. In fact, Mark's own words to me were: "We all thought what a total waste of time it was." He confirmed to me that his platoon had never before, and never since, been required to perform such a "totally bloody useless exercise." Volunteered The soldiers had been 'volunteered' to walk 4 or 5 kilometres, out in the open, in a virtual straight line, from Beach's Barn to Dunch Hill Plantation. According to Mark, although it was around 2 o'clock in the morning and very dark, the exercise was so straightforward they barely even needed a compass. They were told the reason for this unusual exercise was that a reconnaissance unit, positioned around Sidbury Hill (about 2 kilometres northeast of Dunch Hill Plantation) was testing night-vision equipment. The purpose of the exercise was to see if the night-vision equipment could detect the soldiers in the dark. Hmmm... As Mark told me, he has himself used the same equipment, and it was obvious to all and sundry that, being out in the open, even in the dead of night, the soldiers were bound to be detected. "This night-vision gear is brilliant," he said. "It's just like looking through binoculars in broad daylight. There's no way they wouldn't have seen us. It was a pointless exercise." So what was the real reason behind this 'pointless' exercise? I put the question to Mark. "I don't know," he said, grimly, shaking his head. "But it sure as hell wasn't to test the night-vision gear. No way." Could they have been testing new equipment? Could it have been equipment you were unfamiliar with? "Possibly. But if it was, then the whole thing was even more ridiculous. If the equipment I'd used could pick us out, then any new equipment would, presumably, be even better than the old equipment. It was a total waste of time." The Manoeuvre Following several communications, both by letter and by telephone, I finally went to interview Mark at his home. During the course of the interview he told me exactly the sequence of events that, as I was to learn, led to what can only be described as one of the most unprecedented case in British UFO history. What follows is Mark's story... "The six of us were volunteered from the platoon. We were always the ones that got the naff jobs, but this one was a total waste of bloody time... "...We set off from Beach's Barn at around 2 o'clock in the morning, the corporal at the front... I was about fourth in line. All we had to do was walk the 4 or 5 kilometres across the plain to Dunch Hill Plantation, completely out in the open. We were told that a recce unit was positioned up at Sidbury Hill, testing their night-vision gear, and that all we had to do was walk from A to B... "... When we got about 400 metres from our destination (Dunch Hill Plantation) this 'craft' suddenly appeared there above the tree tops... Dunch Hill Plantation is right next to an MoD area that's sectioned off from the army land... there's a copse there that mark's the boundary of the MoD area... "... Suddenly this craft was just there...it just appeared there above the tree tops. It was massive. And black. Very black. The strange thing was, no one said anything. All of us could see this thing, and yet none of us said anything. I guess we were all stunned, afraid...I know I was... "... All of a sudden it started beaming down this light onto the trees, onto the copse, where I sensed some kind of movement. There were lights in the copse, light torch lights [flash lights], as if some people were milling around in there. Then suddenly this huge black craft was beaming down this really powerful light, like a search light, onto the copse. I couldn't make the shape of the craft, but it was massive and black... "... The night was really dark... it was 2 or 3 in the morning by this time... but the craft was even blacker than the night... "... It was about the size of a Hercules 130, or even bigger, maybe even as big as a football pitch. But it was just hanging there, making no noise whatsoever. Then suddenly it just took off at incredible speed, still silent, and flew off in the direction of Tidworth [to the east)... "... The next thing I remember we were 600 metres away from where we were supposed to be - all six of us bending over a map, trying to figure out where we were and how the hell we'd ended up there... "... We have these red night torches...we were all bending over the map trying to ascertain our position. It was ridiculous. We only had to walk in a straight line - there was no way we should have been where we were. I still can't remember how we ended up that far off course." I asked Mark if he thought it possible that he could have hallucinated the incident. He said that he truly wished that that was the case, but that it was highly unlikely as he'd only had to walk a maximum of 3 miles (4 or 5 kilometres). He told me that he knew the feeling of 'hallucinating' from participating in longer, 25 kilometre hikes, and from being forced to stay awake for up to forty hours at a time on some exercises. But a 3 mile walk? He also told me that, being somewhat used to night manoeuvres, his night vision was good, as was that of the other soldiers with him. So far as Mark is concerned, whatever happened that night was a real event, and whatever the soldiers had seen had actually been there for them to see. He bore little doubt on that score. So what happened next? All Mark could remember was being picked up by an army Land Rover (driven by another member of is platoon) and taken back to barracks. So far as he can remember, he was not officially debriefed on his return. Summary It was apparent from speaking with Mark that he had suffered at least some loss of memory concerning the event. He could remember approaching Dunch Hill Plantation clearly enough, then being confronted by what he described as a "massive black craft" that simply appeared in the night sky above the copse (or at least it arrived so swiftly that it seemed simply to appear); people milling around inside the copse; the craft beaming its light down onto the copse; the craft then taking off at incredible speed towards Tidworth; and then... blank. The next thing he could remember was being 600 metres from his position, poring over a map with the rest of his colleagues, trying to figure out where they were and how they had suddenly arrived somewhere else, 600 metres off course. Then he was picked up by an army Land Rover and ferried back to barracks, where, he made a point of telling me, no one said a word about what they had just experienced. Indeed, according to Mark, none of the other soldiers ever spoke to him about the incident. But what was even more unusual, Mark never said a word, either. Until later, that is. Much later. Over the years Mark began to recall the incident that seemed to have wiped itself from his memory. The incident occurred in the winter months of 1989-1990, but it wasn't until some years later that Mark began to remember the incident more clearly. The memory of the manoeuvre itself remained with him, or course, but the detail only started to come back to him a couple of years ago, and even then, the finer details were patchy. The time loss period, however - the period between him approaching the copse and seeing the craft, and then finding himself 600 metres off in the wrong direction - never came back at all. The Remembering It was at this point that we called on the assistance of Robert La Mont Mich, a very highly regarded Harley Street hypnotherapist and Member of the Institute of Clinical Hypnosis. Over recent years Robert has helped many 'abductees' to recall memories of their recent encounters. On hearing of this case, Robert kindly agreed to 'regress' Mark in order to see if he could 'unlock' his missing-time memory. During the regression session (which I attended) Robert proved to be a very thorough and professional hypnotheropist. I would say he took a good fifteen to twenty minutes to put Mark 'under', so to speak, working slowly and methodically to ensure Mark was completely relaxed and responsive to command. Indeed, from where I was seated, Mark looked fast asleep. I should add that at no point did Robert lead by suggestion. Rather, if anything, he led by counter-suggestion making absolutely certain that Mark was telling his own story, and not the story we all may have wanted to hear. What came out of the session was remarkable, to say the least. Under hypnosis, Mark related the sequence of events that had led to his sighting of the 'craft' - how the officer had called on them out of the blue, with no prior warning, to hike the several kilometres to Dunch Hill Plantation; how their route had taken them across open ground, in full view of the reconnaissance unit allegedly positioned on Sidbury Hill, to the east; how the soldiers had become 'bored', 'cold' and 'agitated' en route. What follows is an edited transcript of what Mark was able to recall under hypnosis, fro the point were he and the other 5 soldiers were approaching Dunch Hill Plantation , their ill-fated though prearranged - destination. The Tapes "... So where are you now?" Robert put to Mark. "I can see the woods... all dark and thick... lights... in the copse... people milling around in the copse." Robert then told Mark to continue on towards the copse, as he had done six years previously. "Could the lights you're seeing be a helecoptor?" Robert said. "No." "Is it an aeroplane, then?" "No. The lights are in the woods." "How high off the ground are the lights?" "They're in the woods... they're in the woods." "And do you go to investigate the light?" "No." "You're not bothered about the lights?" "No." "Ok. Walk on a little bit further." At this point, Robert told Mark to 'freeze-frame' and 'zoom in' on the lights (Mark had been told that he was watching a replay of the event on an imaginary screen in his mind, and that he had a 'remote control' in his hand, with 'pause', 'rewind' and 'zoom' facilities etc.). "What can you see now?" Robert asked. "Don't know... don't know what it is ...big thing." "Big thing?" "Yeah." "Can you describe the big thing for me?" "Just dark." "In the woods?" "Above the woods... the woods are illuminated." "The whole of the woods?" "The copse, yeah." At this point Mark started to show signs of distress. "Ok, Mark, You're back on the path. Describe to me what you can see?" "The lights shining on us... I'm cold ..." "What can you see, Mark? Where is the light that's shining on you coming from?" "From above." "Above? So you're looking up now?" "Yeah... it's shining in my eyes..." "And then what happens?" "I... I can't see..." Again Mark became visibly distressed; Robert spent the next short while reassuring him. Total Recall A few moments later: "Tell me what you can see now, Mark." "A yank..." "An American?" "Mmm..." "Where did the American come from?" "Out of the woods." This time Mark's distress became very apparent indeed* Robert again took a short timeout to reassure him everything was ok, that what he was seeing was only a 'replay' of something that had happened a long time ago, and that as such, it could not harm him. Eventually Mark settled down again. Then: "Ok, Mark. The American's come out of the woods now..." "He's poking at us..." "What are they poking at you?" "A stick thing..." Mark's voice was still trembling; he sounded very afraid, and once again, for a few moments he was too distressed to continue. Once again Robert spent a few moments calming him down. Then: "Ok. Can you describe what this American's wearing?" "A black zip-up thing... like a flying suit." "How do you know it's an American?" "His accent... he's swearing and stuff ..." "What's he actually saying?" "F*****g British!" "And what are the rest of the guys saying?" "Nothing, We're all backing away." "How many Americans are there?" "One." "Just one?" "Yeah." "So you've got six guys backing away from just one guy?" "Yeah." "Don't you find this strange?" "He's pointing at me." "He's just pointing at you?" "Yeah." "Describe the stick to me, Mark." "It's a... pointer... like an aerial..." "And what's he doing with it?" "He's just pointing at me... and pushing me and prodding me in the chest." Robert now told Mark to use his imaginary remote control, and to move through this particular sequence 'frame by frame'. "What's the American doing in this frame?" "He's just stood there... but there are lights on us." "He's on his own, your stood in a group, and there are lights on you. Is that right?" "Yeah. We're huddled together." Next frame: "It's like a beam... encircling us..." "And where's the American?" "He's outside of the beam." Next frame: "We're all getting moved by the beam... we're moving with the beam." "Where to?" "To the right." Next frame: "We're right be the edge of the wood... by the edge of the copse." "And were's the American now?" "He's not there any more." "Ok. Are you actually walking? Can you feel yourself walking as you move?" "Yeah...shuffling..." Next frame: "We're all being moved by the beam." "And then what happens?" "We're all just stood there... with the light on us?" "And the object is still there?" "Above us, yeah." Next frame: "We're just underneath it." "Can you make anything out as you look up?" "It's a triangle... black metal... it's not smooth or anything... it's like... wedgy... sort of wedged." "Whereabouts is the light in which you're standing emanating from?" "From the middle" [of the craft's underbelly]. "Any other details?" "Black... it's just dark... at the bottom end it's like an aircraft light..." "Any other details?" "We're just covered in this light. It's like pulses of light... directed at us... I fell sick, dizzy..." Next frame: "... I'm surrounded in light... pulsating light... and there's a noise... almost like a generator... like a humming, pulsating, continuous..." Mark went on to recall how the craft had finally departed, slowly at first, and then at incredible speed, but with no apparent acceleration. He was then able to recall how six soldiers had wandered off in the wrong direction, stunned, dazed, explaining how they had finally ended up 600 metres from where they were supposed to be. They had walked, although none of them had remembered doing so. Conclusions Firstly, I will offer you Robert La Mont's conclusions. "My professional opinion on this case is that the subject did in fact have an encounter, along with his colleagues. This conclusion is based on the visual reactions to his regression session, and the following observations. 1: The traumatic reaction to the situation. 2: The apparent lack of communication between 'command' and the soldiers. 3: Identification of the 'ground crew' of the Triangle [American] - because no one was seen entering or leaving the craft, I cannot call them 'occupants'. 4: The now familiar geographical location of this type of craft, close to military activity. 5: The amnesia induced in all the victims, almost instantly. 6: The identification of the small insignia on the left upper chest area of the suit worn by the 'ground crew'. (Although edited out of this article, Mark did indeed describe a 'small insignia on the left upper chest area of the suit worn by the Americans', whoever he was.) 7: The apparent 'Philadelphia Experiment' scenario, in that there seems to be no other witnesses to this event, yet the proximity to other people in the area should have produced some corroboration, even amongst the individual witnesses. I could pick out further findings, but I feel the point has been made." Questions If Mark's story is true - and there is every reason to conclude that it is - then there are some very serious and pertinent questions to be asked. For one: Since when did our alien neighbours take to wearing black flying suits and speaking with American accents? And two: What was the real agenda behind this highly unusual manoeuvre? To test some new beam-weapon capability, perhaps? Remember, Mark said that all six soldiers were being "moved by the beam", and it is now evident that the "beam" was in some way responsible for inducing amnesia in its victims. Sound familiar? Do you still think that it's 'aliens' who are abducting and experimenting on people? I rigorously put to you that, given the unprecedented circumstances of this case (coupled with the mountain of supporting evidence that is now available) the so-called 'alien abduction program' is not the work of aliens alone. I put to you that it is either the work of some Ultra Top Secret arm of the military-industrial-intelligence complex (the government) or worse, that it is the work of a joint alien/government alliance whose motives and agendas are the very reason for all the secrecy surrounding the UFO phenomenon. And either way, this empire must be brought to its knees. So were Mark and his colleagues used as some kind of guinea pigs on the night in question? Mark now feels certain that this is precisely what happened. "I feel bloody angry," he told me recently. "Sick ... and bloody angry. I feel like I've been used." Footnote: We are currently in possession of evidence which suggests that this is not the first time this kind of 'experiment' has been carried out on Salisbury Plain, or indeed, within the military in general. Our investigations are ongoing. A copy of this article has been sent to the appropriate government Departments, together with a demand for an immediate inquiry. We will keep you informed. Our thanks to Robert La Mont for his invaluable assistance with this case - and a special thanks to 'Mark' for coming forward with his story, especially in the face of possible recriminations. Any other military or former military personnel out there with UFO and/or secret technology stories to tell, we would be very pleased to hear from you. It is our position that the public has a right to know what their government is up to behind the scenes. Of course, any request for anonymity will be readily granted. Ed. ..... The excellent UFO Reality magazine can be ordered as follows: Subscription rates - 6 issues (bi-monthly) UK: 15 pounds Sterling -Europe: 18 pounds Sterling - make cheques/POs payable to UFO Reality and send to: UFO Reality, PO Box 1998, Glastonbury, Somerset BA6 8YB, UK. USA & Canada enquiries to: Orion Marketing, NY. Phone (315) 4510667 - Rest of World: Please write in for details ...... [U3]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Thursday 26th December 1996 Copped, One Flying Saucer Two policemen who spotted a UFO trailed it's red, white and blue lights for ten miles before it vanished over the North Sea near Holt, Norfolk. The local airport ruled out any planes. [U4]****** Source: Eastern Evening News (Norwich) Front Page. Date: 21st December, 1996 Experts Baffled By UFO Aviation experts are baffled by a fast moving, shining object seen by two policemen as it flew over North Norfolk. Air traffic controllers have no logical explanation for the luminous oblong shape which the pair tracked for ten miles. Sgt Steve King and PC Andy Coller stared in disbelief as the UFO with red, white and blue lights darted accross the sky, but they lost it when it hovered over Cromer and then sped out accross the North Sea. The policemen, stationed at Fakenham, were lef "mystified" by the object, which they followed from near Holt to the coast. The sighting is the lastest in a series in recent weeks that have not been satisfactorily explained. Just two months ago a tanker crew tracked two sets of strange coloured lights hovering in the sky off the East Anglian coast. The sightings by the tanker Conocoast near the Wash promted an invesigation by the Ministry of Defence. But UFO sleuths acused the MoD of staging an X-Files style cover up and dismissed the official explanation that the mystery lights were caused by a combination of the 200ft Boston Stump church tower and an electrical storm over the North Sea. There has still been no conclusive expanation for the so called Boston Stump UFO. Meanwhile, colleagues of the two officers were so intrigued by the craft with bright white and red lights that they contacted Norwich Airport. An air traffic department spokesman said yesterday: "They phoned up and spoke to the controller at about 6.15am on Sunday. "It certainly wasn't anything from the airport. It's reported in the book as a possible UFO sighting." Colleagues at Fakenham police station say the two officers are trating the sighting seriously PC Coller and Sgt King were not available for comment yesterday but would like to know more about the UFO sighting at 4.40am on Sunday. Anyone with information which could help explain the phenomenon can ring the police on 01692 402222 [U5]****** Source: The Weekly News Date: 26th August 1995 Did High-Speed Military Jet Pursue UFO Across Skies At Night? Officially, the answer is no. But dozens of people reported encounters with mystery craft. Secret UFO Files Jenny Randles, one of Britain's leading UFO investigators, opens her fascinating casebook. Jenny Randles is an established writer, broadcaster and expert on the para-normal and UFOs. She has written and presented programmes for TV and radio, and regularly lectures around the world. Her work has including briefing senior British politicians at Westminster on UFOs. Jenny is the author of over 20 books, and was a consultant on the popular ITV series , "Strange But True?" which was presented by Michael Aspel. Around 500 people in Britain each year report the sighting of a UFO. Most such incidents turn out to be what UFOlogists call IFOs (identified flying objects). They are misperceptions of ordinary things such as aircraft lights, weather balloons, laser displays and countless other phenomena - all seen under unusual circumstances that cause them to be mistaken for something strange. However between 5 and 10% of all reported encounters defy such ready explanation. These lie at the heart of the UFO mystery and the mounting evidence from such cases has been collected for decades by official and unofficial groups. When examined together these reports convey the impression that something remarkable and unexplained is going on. Superior And if amateur UFO groups can reach such a conclusion with limited resources what do the authorities know as a result of their superior capabilities? One case from my files puts such a question into sharp focus, for it involves what seems to have been the pursuit of a UFO by a high speed military jet across the skies of North West England. I first new something odd was going on when a call came through from tailor Mike Sacks, who lived at Bacup, a small mill town in East Lancashire's Rossendale Valley. It was around 2am. on February 24th 1979. Rossendale was frequently alive with UFO activity. In fact, so many sightings were taking place in the area that the local press later dubbed it "UFO Alley". Unknown To UFOlogists, it was at the heart of what we call a "window area", because far more encounters occur than chance should dictate. Mike told me that he and his wife were shaken as the bedroom filled with an orange glow pouring in from the sky. Looking through the window, thy saw a strange object that stopped dead in mid flight, an instantaneous manoeuvre that no aircraft could possibly match. The glow went out and an arc of blue light appeared in its place, plus a superstructure comprising three rings and a deep-red pulsating mass. As the couple stared in astonishment at the unknown craft, it fell slowly into a disused quarry, casting light onto the pictch-black hillsides. Mike decided to set off for the quarry, and arrived there at 2.40am. He reported seeing a row of windows on the ground below, which he assumed to be a workers portakabin. The next morning, returning to the spot in daylight, no such building was present. Others in the area reported strange sightings that night. A farmer and a worker also reported an object with a dome and red rings fall silently from the sky into the quarry. Two police officers recalled seeing an orange light streak across the sky and disappear, shortly before Mike Sacks arrived at the quarry. It had flown in majestic silence away from the quarry and off above the hill slopes. Had this been the UFO departing from its landing place? At 2.45am. the orange light was reported again, by taxi driver Stephen Alexander and a passenger, some 25 miles north-east of the quarry. -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 {68} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:11:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:11:30 -0500 Subject: {68} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' January 11th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K Issue 68 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ {68} UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK - part 2 of 2 This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number and part/s that are missing. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {68} parts 1/2 Eerie They said it was racing westwards at quite some speed. Yet there was no sound associated with it, just as all the witnesses in the silence of the Rossendale Valley had attested to the eerie quiet of this mysterious craft. About as dozen separate sightings were also made in and around Merseyside. All occurred between 2.40am. and 2.50am. that February morning. They could be plotted onto a map of north-west England, revealing a striking pattern. The interesting thing about these Merseyside sightings is that they were evidently not of the object heading west from the Bacup quarry towards the Lancashire coast. For these were of an object coming from the south and travelling north-westwards. Moreover, several of the witnesses commented on the roaring noise, like a jet engine that this particular object made. Further encounters involved a caravan park at Scarisbrick, a village on the coast near Southport. Residents were shaken from their sleep by an explosion of noise. Doors and windows rattled violently as a ball of flame flew at great speed and low level towards the Ribble estuary. TV host Some residents were in little doubt what this UFO was. They concluded that a military jet fighter was breaking the sound barrier - hence the bang - and ignoring all the regulations that normally prevent such activity over inhabited areas. They were not alone in their concerns. Indeed, the then MP for Ormskirk, Robert Kilroy-Silk, who is now a TV host, took action on their behalf and requested an explanation from the Ministry of Defence. UFOlogists were also pressing the MoD for answers, although they were in possession of a lot more evidence than was the MP. To him, this was an isolated incident affecting his constituents, perhaps involving a straying aircraft breaking the rules. Unfortunately he can have no idea about the amazing pattern of UFO activity going on that night, which researchers were slowly following through and I was piecing together. The Civil Aviation Authority had suggested - fairly logically - that the object sounded to then like a military jet using "afterburn" and "reheat". This is a system that rapidly accelerates the speed of the jet and, in the dark, creates a spurt of orange flame from the rear. It certainly fits the fact as described by the witnesses over Merseyside and south Lancashire, though the Civil Aviation Authority recanted this suggestion when the MoD failed to offer support. No military jet should have been allowed to engage reheat in this place at this time - unless there had been an emergency. Statement Eventually, the MoD issued their definitive statement on the matter. It simply claimed that it could "confirm that a special United States Air Force exercise" had been underway at the time. F-111 jets from the USAF base at Upper Heyford in Oxfordshire were involved in this and "operated at low level". At no time did the MoD state that the object seen over the north-west was such an F-111. Nor did they attempt to explain why such an aircraft would break the rules and pass at low level through restricted airspace where aircraft bound for two major civil airports (Manchester and Liverpool) could have been put at risk. They simply allowed people to draw the conclusion that this episode had been an "exercise" and an F-111 had somehow been flying at low height to cause the sightings. Unfortunately, there are big problems with this conclusion. Firstly, the silent object seen to land and then take off from Bacup (heading west, not north) could not possibly have been an F-111. But, perhaps more significantly, Colonel Shrihofer, the man in charge of the alleged exercise at USAF Upper Heyford, insisted that his men knew all about airspace restrictions and that what was seen over Lancashire was, as he put it, "definitely not (our) F-111s -that's official!" Problems I took all of this information back to the MoD. Their comment about a special USAF exercise had presumably by now placated people like Robert Kilroy-Silk and the caravan park residents. When I pointed out the problems with it Colonel Shrihoer's response they told me, "Clearly, our suggestion was wrong. But then, it was never put forward as an explanation in the first place." As for what was really encounted on the night of February 24th, they had no idea. In other words it was a UFO! There is one final story in this case. I interviewed a man who at the time was a security guard on the Central Pier in Blackpool. At between 2.30 and 2.45am. of the night in question, he recalled feeling the pier rattle and vibrate as if struck by a very heavy swell - yet the tide was out. Rushing outside, he saw a ball of orange light over the sea to the south. It made a roaring noise and vanished north-westwards. There was also a lingering smell, a bit like ozone. There have been numerous reports of UFOs ionising the atmosphere and creating the smell of ozone, which the security guard recognised. It was not aviation fuel, he told me, which has a very different odour. He stood on the pier for some time watching the sea and about 30 minutes later, gazed in amazement as a series of white lights climbed up from the Irish Sea just off the South Pier and spiralled in unison into the clouds. What had been witnessed from this deserted Blackpool pier? Had the noise been caused by a military jet streaking out to sea in pursuit of something? Were the lights seen a little later climbing into the sky the silent UFO - that had hidden below the water line until the coast was clear? Perhaps we will never know... A detailed history of the UFO phenomenon, including the British Government's association with the problem, is published by Jenny Randles and Peter Hough in their "Complete Book of UFOs" (Platkus, 1994). [U6]****** Source: Adelaide Advertiser (South Australia) Date: December 19, 1996 "UFO Abductee" Set For Soft Landing With $2M Payout World, Page 18. It could be the perfect case for agents Mulder and Scully. In true X-Files style, an electrician claims he was lifted from the ground and knocked unconscious by a UFO in Swindon. He is apparently to be paid 1 million pounds ($A2.06) by insurers who covered him against abduction by aliens.Industry sources, however, are suggesting that the payout could, just possibly, be an out-of-this-world publicity stunt. The story starts on October 8, when Joseph Carpenter, 23, from Enfield, North London, claims he was struck down by a mystery light near Swindon. The area is a "hot-spot" for such phenomena, says Mr Carpenter, who runs a UFO hunting group called the Majestic Twelve. "On the evening in question, an intense beam of light, like a police helicopter, had me, "he said. "The anti-gravity force within it lifted me above the ground. I passed out as I went directly into it. All this was captured on film." Mr Carpenter had paid 102.5 pounds ($A208) for cover against such an eventuality to a company called GRIP, run by insurance broker Simon Burgess. Mr Carpenter was able to produce "compelling evidence" of his ordeal, including camcorder footage, witnesses and DNA samples taken from what he said was a nail from a claw found at the scene. Mr Burgess said last night : "The work on the DNA sample was carried out by a research fellow at Cambridge University, I can't give you his name. "But the work proved conclusively that the sample was something that had never been seen before and which was not of this Earth". Mr Burgess says Mr Carpenter will receive his money on Saturday at a London hotel from Scully herself. X-Files star , Gillian Anderson. The broker, described by one industry source, as "an unhelpful maverick", is understood to have made a deal with a Sunday paper for exclusive coverage of the presentation. Industry Insiders say he is almost certain to make a profit from Mr Carpenter's successful claim. One said: " If he plays his cards right, he will claw the money back by wisely selling the world rights of the video evidence to TV companies. If he sat down and co-wrote a book using the evidence, the money would also roll in". So, publicity stunt or not ? As they say in the X-Files, the truth is out there ......... World News ---------- [W1]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Thursday 26th December 1996 Outcry Over Space Monkeys Two monkeys were sent into Earth orbit in a Russian space capsule yesterday, despite protests by animal rights campaigners. The two week mission will research effects of weightlessness. [W2]****** Source: Albuquerque Journal Date: 3rd December, 1996 Rumors Of Aliens Trail Comet Charges that a spacecraft is headed for Earth behind the Comet Hale-Bopp have taken on a life of their own By John Fleck Journal Staff Writer An alien spacecraft is headed toward Earth, tailing Comet Hale-Bopp. NASA and the U.S.government know about it and are suppressing the telescope images that would prove it. Those charges, lurking on the Internet and talk radio since the comet was discovered in 1995, have exploded in recent weeks. The talk has been fueled by nationally syndicated late-night talk show host Art Bell and discussion groups on the Internet, where anyone who wants can weigh in. Despite debunking by scientists, the conspiracy theories have gained a momentum of their own, with the scientists who offer explanations immediately lumped in with the conspirators. The debate has grown so intense that, two weeks ago, one Internet critic called Alan Hale, the New Mexico astronomer who discovered the comet, "an Earth traitor" after Hale helped debunk one of the latest "mystery spaceship" sightings. "This whole thing is nutty," said Hale, who said he is alternately amused and aghast at the uproar surrounding the comet that bears his name. The most popular tale is that the spacecraft is either out to destroy us or save us. The government knows about it, according to the conspiracy theorists, and is keeping it from the public. Their evidence is a hodgepodge of speculation, information allegedly gathered telepathically from the aliens and astronomical data that, scientists say, have been misinterpreted out of ignorance. Neither Bell nor any of the other chief conspiracy theorists responded to Journal requests for comment. Hale-Bopp would seem an unlikely subject for an international cover-up, scientists say, simply because anyone who wants can take a look. Now 270 million miles from Earth and growing brighter, the potential comet of the century is hanging out there for anyone with a cheap telescope or even a pair of binoculars to see. Hale, who lives in the mountains outside Cloudcroft in southern New Mexico, has been observing the comet every night it's visible, and hasn't seen anything amiss. "Don't take my word for it," he says. "Go out and look at it." Since Hale and amateur star-gazer Thomas Bopp discovered the comet in July 1995, the conspiracy theorists have latched onto the comet with a vengeance. The evidence for the alien presence is hung from bits of truth. As astronomers gather more data on the comet's orbit, they have revised their calculations of its orbit. That has led to calls from conspiracy theorists that Hale-Bopp has "changed course," something no comet could do. Conspiracy theorists have also made much of a perceived paucity of publicly available images from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Hubble Space Telescope. Hubble comet pictures taken in September and October, published recently in the magazine Science News, do not seem to have reduced the vehemence of those arguments. For the record, NASA scientist Jay Bergstralh, who is heading up a portion of the space agency's comet research efforts, said he has heard of no such conspiracy. The discovery of "mysterious objects" in telescope pictures of the comet has been trumpeted by the conspiracy buffs, only to have astronomers identify them as stars in the backgrounds of the pictures. "What's upsetting is that they won't take the time to learn," said Harvard-based astronomer Daniel Green. If there was a mysterious object flying alongside the comet, said Green, amateur and professional astronomers around the world watching the comet would have seen and reported it. "That's the way science works. That's the way astronomy works. You can't hide anything," said Green, who works for the International Astronomical Union, an international clearing house for such information. The "mysterious object" pictures have nevertheless raised the conspiracy talk to a crescendo in recent weeks, led by late-night talk radio host Bell, whose syndicated show runs in Albuquerque on KOB AM (770) from midnight to 4 a.m. Last Thursday night, a guest on Bell's program claimed to have "remotely viewed" the alien spacecraft, using a sort of telepathic eyesight. Hale said the Internet has been both a curse and a blessing. Anyone with a computer and a telephone connection can "publish" information on the Internet, a worldwide computer network. That has allowed the Hale-Bopp conspiracy theories to spread quickly, but it has also given scientists an equal forum. But with Hale-Bopp getting brighter and likely to be major public spectacle next spring, Hale expects the wild talk to continue. "It's just going to get worse," he said. [W3]****** Source: Newseek (US) Date: January 6, 1996 When Rumors Make The News Public-service warning: The Internet is not a news service. Read what's there with care, and be your own editor. by Richard Turner He wears a trench coat. He worked for Kennedy. His image, with the Eiffel Tower in the background and the ABC logo in the corner, exudes a sense of legitimacy. This is the familiar medium, the thing we're supposed to trust. So when former ABC news correspondent Pierre Salinger breathlessly announced last month that he had evidence that TWA Flight 800 was felled by a friendly-fire U.S. missile, the story had enough credibility to resurface in the "mainstream" press, where it had briefly appeared two months before. For most people, this episode played out as embarrassing, a little bit sad, a little bit Brinkley-esque. But inhabitants of cyberspace were less compassionate. To them, this was yet another sign of establishment cluelessness about the Internet. They witheringly pointed out that the same document Salinger referred to had been on the World Wide Web, posted for all to see, for months. "Well, Pierre, if you'd get a little Net-savvy, you'd figure it out," sniffed one Web site, conspire.com, which concluded: "Learn to surf, Dude." There they go again, the denizens of the "old" media and the Netizens of the new. Their mutual distrust colors a debate which really ought not to be so supercharged. Mainstream-media watchdogs view the loopy Salinger story as yet another sign that the Net is a giant, churning rumor pit, because the friendly-fire information resided there. The technophiles think they're under attack by a punditocracy afraid to give up control. And so there was similar fretting from both sides when a slightly overreaching story in the San Jose Mercury News--which appeared to say that CIA-sanctioned cocaine sales launched the crack epidemic--took on momentum, fed by the Net. The tale became holy writ to many, especially in the black community. The Mercury was blasted for how its Web version of the story helped spread and distort it. We don't mind mentioning these things, or the alien autopsies, or the United Nations plot with the black helicopters. But there are other examples of "news" floating around the Internet that we won't articulate, like the famous Republican politician said to have been involved in a homosexuality scandal some years back. Why won't we put it in the magazine? Well, short of actually investigating it, we'll rely on the San Francisco Chronicle, which ran a story saying there's no evidence that it's true. It's part of the "legitimate" press, and we fancy that we are, too. This is very civic-minded of us, and, of course, very pompous. Who are we to decide? Media mandarins, determining from on high what people can and can't know. This is the view of the apostles of cyber-nirvana. To them, the Net is a means for regular people to assert their rights against the old order of top-down windbags. All of this obscures the obvious fact that the Net is a means of communication, not a news service. Everybody who's spent five minutes there knows it's full of self-indulgent rantings, junior-high-school feuding--and porno. Just because something's on the Net doesn't give it gravitas. The TWA friendly-fire story, before it hit the Internet, actually showed up on CBS's local TV station in New York just after the crash. But CBS network news didn't pick up on it, and this is the point: with so much information out there today, people have to know whom to trust. For better or worse, this trust still resides in some TV news organizations and a handful of newspapers and magazines--many of them controlled by family members willing to tolerate flattish stock prices in return for some high-minded and corny ideal that their stories should try to tell the truth. They set the agenda for most other news. And readers by now know when they browse the newsstand that there's a difference between The New York Times and Weekly World News. For those who aren't waving a banner for one side or the other--who believe that the Net is important but doubt its utopian qualities--the debate about news pollution on the Net is just another reminder that citizens have to pick through their news as carefully as cats. "You can't scroll through the Net uncritically," says high-tech attorney Michael Godwin. "You have to be your own editor. That's called being an adult in an information society." And that still means listening to guys in trench coats, even if they sometimes get it wrong. [W4]****** Source: Newsweek (US) Date: February 6th, 1997 Growing National Paranoia Conspiracy Mania Aliens killed JFK. The CIA started the crack epidemic. Kurt Cobain was murdered. Who comes up with this stuff? And why do so many people believe it? by Rick Marin and T. Trent Gegax Inside a beat-up white trailer home in the Nevada desert, Glenn Campbell sits leashed to his desk by a telephone headset. Faxes grind and modems screech while Campbell (no, not that Glen Campbell) runs the one-man government-watchdog station he calls the Area 51 Research Center. A giant black satellite dish out back points ominously skyward. The front yard is decorated with the tail of a crashed F-4 jet. Animal bones scattered in a macabre rock-garden formation separate the trailer from the dirt frontage road along Nevada State Route 375--a.k.a. The Extraterrestrial Highway. A sonic boom from the local air force base cleaves the heavens as Campbell hangs up with a deep military source. "We found a connection between Ron Brown's plane crash and Area 51!" he announces. "It's all linked together!" He's kidding--sort of. Campbell is a conspiracy theorist, not a conspiracy nut. A retired Boston software executive, he cashed out a couple of years ago at the age of 33 and relocated to the sun-baked hamlet of Rachel, Nev., to become the leading authority on Area 51. You know: the "secret" section of an air base that houses alien spacecraft. This is ground zero for UFOlogists convinced that the world has been controlled by aliens ever since the first flying saucer fell to Earth in 1947. "There is alien contact with the military," Campbell says, though, he admits, "I don't have proof other than what I hear from my sources at Area 51." Coincidentally, those sources commute from their homes in Vegas to the air base in a T-43 transport plane just like the one that carried Secretary Brown to his death. Conspiracy paranoia is surrounding us. A paranoid person might even say it's closing in, because these wacky theories aren't just spreading in the usual cheesy newsletters dense with type and craziness. Fomented on the Internet, mass-marketed by Hollywood ("The X-Files," "Independence Day"), conspiracism has become a kind of para-religion. Its vast flock ranges from casual believers to zealots who think O. J. Simpson was set up by the Japanese mafia and that Prince Charles is a puppet of the new world order, instructed by a computer chip planted in his royal buttocks. Wait until Pierre Salinger starts looking into that one. This great nation has always had its share of conspiracy freaks. Hell, the country was founded by Freemasons, the ultimate secret society. (Who do you think put that weird eyeball-and-pyramid symbol on the dollar bill?) But the ranks of the darkly deluded may be growing. A recent survey in George magazine indicated that three quarters of Americans believe that "the Government is involved in conspiracy." Depending on your level of venality, that statistic can be read as either mass psychosis or a marketing opportunity. This year, America Online started a "channel" called ParaScope, to attract devotees of the paranormal and the paranoid. Mel Gibson's next movie is called, simply, "Conspiracy Theory." He'll play a cabdriver who finds himself in trouble when one of his harebrained theories turns out to be true. Surprisingly, Oliver Stone is not directing. "There certainly seems to be a resurgence in sympathy toward conspiracy theory and an increasing strain of paranoia," says Kendrick Frazier, editor of The Skeptical Inquirer, a monthly devoted to debunking wacko theories. Clearly, something is heating up in the more tropical climes of the American psyche. So, herewith, a skeptical inquiry of our own. Kurt Cobain's 'Suicide.' The shotgun blast that killed the Nirvana front man and Gen X martyr was not self-inflicted, this theory goes. Cobain's widow, Courtney Love, is implicated, according to the book "Love & Death: The Story of Kurt & Courtney," by Montreal journalists Ian Halpern and Max Wallace. Private investigator Tom Grant, originally hired by Love to look into her husband's disappearance, is working hard to keep Cobain's suicide as mysterious as White House aide Vince Foster's. "The picture that was painted of this thing as a suicide was totally false," Grant says. Contrary to press reports, he claims (and says police records back him up) Cobain did not place his driver's license on top of his wallet on the floor next to him to help authorities identify the body. In fact, Grant says, a cop put the license out for the crime-scene photographer. "That information led people to think it was a suicide," Grant says. "But it was not true." More "proof." In addition to the suicide note at the scene, Grant says, Cobain left Love a Dear John letter: "We'll learn in the end that that note explains exactly what he was doing. He was retiring, leaving the music business, leaving his wife. That was a retirement note to his fans, not a suicide note." The motive? Grant's got that figured out, too. "She was after his fan base. The motivation is greed and career"--the same motivation Grant has been criticized for by the Courtney camp. Love dismisses the charges. And Seattle police spokesman Sean O'Donnell says, "I've had to respond to so many theories and conspiracy theories since the event occurred, and I've refuted them consistently. There's just no information that would indicate this is anything other than a suicide." Hemp Power Suppressed. Another Gen X favorite, and stoner perennial, since hemp (another name for cannabis) can be smoked as pot or turned into a fiber. In June actor Woody Harrelson was arrested when he planted four nonhallucinogenic, industrial hemp seeds in a Kentucky field. Such a Thoreau-like act of civil disobedience would have been unnecessary in 1938, when a Popular Mechanics cover story headlined hemp as the new billion-dollar crop. But "something went wrong between 1937 and 1942," says Allen St. Pierre, deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). "I can't tell you that I've been able to find a conspiracy. But there was such a moneyed interest involved, it makes you wonder." NORML claims to have documents showing that as part of the war effort the government set up hemp farms in Kentucky, Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio. St. Pierre says hemp supplied superstrong twine for parachute cord and oil for war vehicles. "The U.S. forces were one big mobile hemp unit," St. Pierre says. During World War II, a "Hemp for Victory" newsreel featured fresh-faced 4-H kids sewing hemp seeds. It also made Levi's denim famously sturdy. What happened? St. Pierre blames Harry J. Anslinger, the nation's first drug czar, who he says needed a fresh target once Prohibition failed. "They made pot illegal for their own purposes," St. Pierre says, citing an Anslinger-Du Pont-Hearst triumvirate as the culprit. The Du Pont family feared cannabis could supplant many of their petrochemicals, and William Randolph Hearst needed a new moral high horse for his newspapers. Nonsense, says Bob Barker (no, not that Bob Barker) of the American Fiber Manufacturers Association. He says hemp doesn't even compete with textile and petroleum products: "It's kind of a nice, back-to-nature sort of thing to believe." Especially if you're baked. The Klan in the 'Hood. The black community is a hotbed of this kind of suspicion and mistrust, some justified, some fantastical. In October, Rep. Maxine Waters convened a town meeting in South-Central Los Angeles between her constituents and CIA Director John Deutch. A heated debate ensued over reports speculating that the CIA had spread the crack epidemic by backing Nicaraguan drug dealers whose profits went to the contras. "Black-oriented talk-radio shows are rife with conspiracy stuff," says Dr. Jewelle Taylor Gibbs, a University of California, Berkeley, professor who has written extensively on race issues. At WVON in Chicago it's conventional wisdom among listeners that AIDS is a plot to wipe out African-Americans. Keisha Chavers, an executive producer at the station, says, "The common refrain is 'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you'." Such is the conspiracist's reflex mentality. It's often a reaction against authority among groups that feel they've been politically marginalized, socially isolated or economically oppressed. Gibbs agrees: "Invariably, blacks start asking if the government is against us. Once these urban myths take hold, you can't do much to disprove them." Like the myth that the Snapple Iced Tea label depicts a slave galley, reflecting the company's solidarity with the KKK. The picture in question is actually of the Boston Tea Party. The New World Order. When Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and right-wing political extremist Lyndon LaRouche meet, they can agree on one thing: the malign, totalitarian power of the NWO and its executive arm, the Trilateral Commission. When President George Bush (a member of Yale's secret society Skull & Bones) proclaimed a new world order, he didn't tell us that "black helicopters" would be patrolling the night skies, monitoring our every move. Or that the government keeps a genetic record of every citizen in secret "DNA banks" (a hot topic in AOL's ParaScope chat rooms). Oklahoma City bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh reportedly claimed that the U.S. Army (the military arm of the NWO) had implanted a computer chip in his buttock to control him. He didn't say whether he and the Prince of Wales had experienced any chip-to-chip contact. These bizarre fantasies would seem safely ridiculous if they didn't occasionally turn out to be true. "My paranoia and mistrust of authority came of age during Watergate," says Chris Carter, creator of "The X-Files," TV's weekly conspiracy-geek bible. On "The X-Files," everything from who killed JFK to why the Buffalo Bills lose so many Super Bowls is traceable to a single master plan. "It helps when you pick up the paper every day and see how the government has lied to us," Carter adds, ticking off recent revelations about the cover-ups surrounding gulf war syndrome and President Clinton's apology for radiation experiments conducted on unwitting Americans as late as 1974. In "Journey Into Madness: The True Story of Secret CIA Mind Control and Medical Abuse" (Bantam, 1990) British journalist Gordon Thomas meticulously documents the brutal brainwashing of soldiers in the Korean War. Militia extremists who had been warning of a new world order for years felt vindicated when their president actually announced one. See! They told you so. As Glenn Campbell likes to tell people out at his trailer in the middle of nowhere, it's all linked together. He just can't quite prove it. Yet. [W5]****** Source: The Electronic Telegraph Date: Thursday 19 December 1996 Find Adds To Strife On Mars By Robert Uhlig, Technology Correspondent THE existence of life on Mars has been thrown into further doubt after scientists found that two of the four lines of indirect evidence supporting the meteorite finding can be explained by non-biological processes. When Nasa announced it suspected early extra-terrestrial microbial life on Martian meteorite ALH 84001, it based its claims on the fact that four compounds found inside the meteorite could be produced only by living organisms. Most damaging of all to supporters of the Martian life theory is the suggestion by geoscientists in America that magnetite crystals inside the meteorite, assumed to be the product of bacteria, were not produced by a biogenic process. "The biological explanation is becoming less and less plausible," said John Kerridge, a planetary scientist at the University of California at San Diego, who is familiar with the studies published or about to be published in the journal Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. San Diego scientists also found organic molecules called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in Antarctic ice were the same as those inside the meteorite's globules. They were also found in other meteorites that did not come from Mars. [W6]****** STATEMENT BY NASA ADMINISTRATOR DAN GOLDIN ON THE PASSING OF ASTRONOMER CARL SAGAN "All of us at NASA are saddened by the passing of Carl Sagan. For more than three decades, Dr. Sagan was an eloquent, passionate voice for the sciences that he so ably advanced. As much as any scientific figure of our time, Carl described for an entire generation -- the generation of the Space Age -- the true wonders of the Universe around us. His unbelievable ability to explain the complexities of space and space exploration inspired people to look up into the night sky in wonder. Through such efforts as the television series 'Cosmos' and his recent book, 'Pale Blue Dot,' Carl reached -- and touched --millions around the world. He was a pioneer of the idea that life could exist on Mars, years before NASA was able to uncover evidence of potential early life on the Red Planet, and he was an important voice in our Mars science programs for many years. He was an early champion of the idea that the two leading spacefaring powers, America and Russia, should work together in the exploration of space. He also was at the forefront of constructing humanity's first messages to the stars, which even now are hurtling out of our Solar System aboard the Pioneer and Voyager spacecraft. Carl himself likened the effort to the launching of a message in a bottle on the interstellar ocean. We will remember his vision, his eloquence, and his intellect, and we will miss him." [W7]****** Source: The Associated Press Date: December 28, 1996 Coppola Sues Carl Sagan LOS ANGELES (AP) -- One week after Carl Sagan's death, director Francis Ford Coppola's company has accused the astronomer of breaking a contract with him. In a lawsuit filed Friday, Coppola's Zoetrope Corp. asks that Warner Bros. stop production of the movie ``First Contact,'' based on a book by Sagan. Sagan died Dec. 20. Coppola says that 20 years ago, Sagan had agreed to work with Coppola on a TV series based on the book, which was still in the planning stages. The book was published in 1985 and Sagan entered into a contract with Warner Bros. for the film. Warner Bros. did not immediately return a phone message seeking comment after business hours Friday. Zoetrope's attorney, Robert S. Chapman, said Coppola and Sagan had agreed to share profits from any other projects related to 'Contact'. 'First Contact', a science fiction film about Earth's encounter with aliens, is scheduled to be released next year. [W8]****** Source: CNN Website - http://www.cnn.com Date: Decemver 17, 1996 It's A Bird, It's A Plane, It's A Mystery Ball! SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A mysterious glowing ball of light traveling 1/100th the speed of light has been spotted and videotaped in the earth's upper atmosphere, but what it is has scientists puzzled. Brief footage of the image, which appeared for about 3/100th of a second at an estimated height of 80 kilometers, was presented publicly for the first time Monday at the fall meeting of the American Geophysical Union. In a six-frame sequence, the object can clearly be seen crossing upwards and left across the field of view, while retaining its shape and intense glow. "It's the first and only event of this kind photographed to my knowledge," said Dr. Dean A. Morss, assistant professor of Atmospheric Sciences at Creighton University in Nebraska. Morss is heading a research project designed to videotape luminous electrical phenomena, called sprites, in the upper atmosphere. 'Clearly moving' Scientists were observing a region of thunderstorm activity in western Kansas from a ground observation point in Nebraska when the mystery ball appeared. Navy Lt. Paul McCrone, a graduate student at Creighton, videotaped the image on August 22, using equipment on loan to the university from Los Alamos National Laboratory. "It's clearly something that does not have any mass. The angular speed is too fast to be anything at orbital velocity," said Morris B. Pongratz, a scientist with Los Alamos National Laboratory who has examined the tape. "This guy is clearly moving." Morss and his colleagues maintain the ball's tremendous speed and apparent lack of mass eliminate many commonly proffered explanations for unknown objects sighted in the atmosphere. "People are seeing new forms, new shapes, all sorts of new phenomena," Morss said. "It's not traditional meteorology." --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk If you have something to say about the articles and features published in the e-zine please mail: feedback@nolimits.demon.co.uk. Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ http://www.nolimits.demon.co.uk/ For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Meet us on the IRC. Regular meetings held every Saturday night at 11pm (2300hrs) - 10pm (2200hrs) GMT. Connect to irc.mirage.co.uk and join us on channel #UFO For advice on connecting to our weekly meetings via the irc please send mail to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and information from the UK and around the world is now available by subscribing to our new List Server. Send mail to: listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu In the main body of the mail put: subscribe ufo fn ln note: in place of fn put your first name. in place of ln put your last name. For example: subscribe ufo John Smith A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Drake's Equation From: fsphys@brunswickmicro.nb.ca Date: Sun, 12 Jan 97 00:14:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:32:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Equation In response to Greg Sandow's comment about Carl Sagan's proof about non visitation, the absurd calculation about too much of the heavy elements in the universe being required was published by a NASA Scientist Hong Ye Chiu in Icarus, then edited by Carl. I discussed it at length in my long 1973 MUFON paper "Ufology and the Search for ET Intelligent Life." Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Comments on Discovery programs From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:26:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:33:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on Discovery programs > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:02:01 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Comments on Discovery programs > Date: 10 Jan 97 18:19:02 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Comments on Discovery programs > snipped < It must be a global conspiracy! > Rebecca Maybe not in this case but there is good historical evidence that governments have cooperated through their intelligence and military organizations to control investigation and dissemination of information to the public on the subject of UFOs. Examples of this are General Doolittle's visit to Sweden during the so called "ghost rocket episodes" and the dispatch of American military intelligence personnel to Greece when Paul Santorini, a scientist who had been a significant contributor to the Manhattan Project, was about to organize a public scientific study of UFOs appearing over Greece after WWII. That study Dr. Santorini has stated in writing was halted at the request of the Greek military due to American influence. Gary Search for other documents from or mentioning: galevy | xiannekei |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Moon photos From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:29:42 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:34:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon photos Why would someone go to such ridiculous lengths to create another conspiricy theory? Usually when this happens, the creator of the conspiracy takes advantage of the general population's lack of knowledge in a certain area, in this case it is photography. This certainly seems to be what David Percy seems to be doing with his "staged moon landing conspiricy theory." How could Mr. Percy, who claims to be a professional photographer (A.R.P.S etc., etc.) come to the conclusions he has in the Fortean Times article? Perhaps the question should be; why did he come to these conclusions? The answer comes in small type at the end of the article...a book, co-authored with David Myers. As a professional photographer, I was interested to see what "photographic evidence" there was for a hoax on NASA's part. After carefully reading the article and Mr. Percy's reasons for stating the moon landing was a hoax, I came to the conclusion that Mr. Percy doesn't sound like a professional photographer. Here's why; Mr. Percy has no concept of lighting Mr. Percy has no concept of perspective Mr. Percy has a limited vision or imagination with regard to taking photographs Mr. Percy has no faith in the technical abilities of trained personnel (the astronauts) In order to follow my step-by-step critique of Mr. Percy's conclusions it will be necessary to have the relevent issue of the Fortean Times, or you can see at least some of these photos (1-10) at; http://www.forteantimes.com/artic/94/moon.html ======================= Let's start with Photographic Rule #1 which according to Mr Percy is: "Light travels in straight, parallel lines at any given moment. Shadow directions are constant because the light comes from the sun over 90 million miles away." Correct. However lets look at photo #1 and photo #2 and the (mis)interpretation drawn by Mr. Percy. In Photo #1 there are a couple of lines drawn parallel with no apparent correlation to the shadows on the ground. Look at the tree that is furthest from the camera and look at the direction of its shadow. The direction of it's shadow is very similar to that of the tall rock in the upper right portion of photo #2. This is because of perspective. To demonstrate this,look at the triangle below. (dia. #1) Side `a' is approximately twice the length of side `b'. Assume that `c' represents the angle, and length of the shadow. Side `a' represents the distance along the `x' axis to the end of the shadow. Side `b' represents the distance along the `y' axis to the end of the shadow. The line of sight for the viewer would be along the `x' axis. |\ *+ - | \ you-> | + - <-smaller angle line of sight | \ _^_ + - | \ + - | \ Greater angle line of sight -> + - | \ |a \ | c\ dia. #2 | \ | \ | \ | b \ |____________\ . . .<-line of sight . . . *<- (This is you) dia. #1 [view looking down] If this triangle were a solid object and it was dragged away from you along the line of sight, all sides would have an apparently smaller size. However added to this is the angle at which you are viewing side `a'. The angle becomes smaller and smaller and side `a' will eventually shrink to an unappreciable size while side `b' could still be seen, rendering the shadow line, `c' effectively horizontal. (dia. #2) Try cutting a triangle similar to the one above and view it from the same angle, but from different distances and you'll see what I mean. In photo #2, the middle line drawn is not even at the same angle as the shadows it's trying to emulate. Added to this it is very hard to draw accurate lines of convergence on a two-dimensional photograph that has no uniform points of reference within the field that is photographed. ======================= Now let's look at Rule #2." Light in a vacuum is high contrast-very bright on the Sun side,very dark on the shadow side-and on the moon there is no atmosphere to help fill-in or soften/lighten the shadows." In photo #3 and many others throughout the article, it is said that the shadow areas are filled in with light. Again Mr Percy is right but for the wrong reasons. The light `fill' comes from the surface of the moon. Even when the Sun is behind the astronaut. the light bounces up and back off the irregular surface and surrounding slopes. In photo #10, at least one reason the rocks aren't filled in and the astronaut is, is the bright white spacesuits their wearing, which reflect light much more than the darker rocks. Look at the feature shot on page 34-5. The shadow area of the astronauts suit is visible because the sunlight is being bounced back into these areas. Look at the creases in the suit. They are lighter on the bottom and darker on the top indicating light coming from below. Note the top of his helmet, no fill! Why because there is no way for the light from the moon surface to reach this area. ======================= Rule #3 states; "Shadow areas are darker than the surrounding sunlit terrain. Consequently dark, unlit areas cannot naturally be illuminated with directional lighting from the side or below." Sounds like Rule #2. Yes, it can be lit from below! See response to Rule #2. ======================= Rule #4 "Flat surfaces are always lit evenly by the Sun." Yes...but who says the regions in photos # 13, 14, 15 are flat? Ok, ok so let's say they're reasonably flat. Remember what we learned from our triangle experiment? Side `a' becomes condensed the closer one's line of vision approach's the horizon. The farther into the distance you look, the more you're looking at the shadow side of every rock and grain of moodust. This gives the illusion that there is `fall-off.' ======================= Rule # 5 "Lines converge in perspective, manifesting as the `leaning back' effect when taking pictures of tall buildings." Right again...,'cept the LEM isn't a tall building...duh! There aren't enough vertical lines in the shape of the LEM to see converging lines. To increase the height at which the photos could have been taken, the astronaut may have been standing in the lunar rover. The LEM is also on a slope, and the point at which this photo was taken is much higher than where the flag is. This slope can be seen in the reverse angle in photo #24. ======================= Rule #6. "Simultaneous events happen in parallel even when viewed from different positions in close proximity." Comparing the flag angles in Photos 22 to 23, the TV coverage to the photo taken at the same time but from almost 180 deg. from the mounted TV camera. The flag is at 70 deg. in the video coverage, and 90 deg. in the photo. The flag however is angled more in the direction of the astronaut/cameraman. The TV camera also seems to be at a lower height and angled up which doesn't help matters. The flag post is not perpendicular to either frame, therefore the flag angles cannot be compared. ======================= In photo #21 and the inset the cross-hairs go behind the object. Again this shouldn't be anything unfamiliar to a competent photographer. In both instances the cross-hair disappears behind a very bright object. The light from the Sun is so bright that when it enters the camera and goes through the optical glass that's flush with the film, the light "bleeds" over the top and bottom demarcations of the cross-hair. The effect is similar to that in photo #11 where the light actually "bleeds" over the side of the LEM. ======================= The comparison of photo #'s 18 and 19 doesn't work. Mr. Percy claims that they are taken from different heights. Look at the camera on the chest of the astronauts in both photos. In #19 the camera is poited directly at us, whereas in #18 the astronaut is bent over clightly and we can see the camera is pointing down. This should be obvious to even a lay-person let alone a professional. ======================= I hope this has dispelled any belief that Mr. Percy's claims could be true, but I'm sure it hasn't for all, and that at least a few will ascribe to his `lunacy' and hand over hard cash to buy his book.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:05:33 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:36:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 >Date: 11 Jan 97 10:45:03 EST >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Lord Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 >Letter >>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 04:35:11 -0500 (EST) >>From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@dc.seflin.org> >>Subject: Hill Noton Enquiry from alistair (fwd) >>From: Ian Ramsey <earthrite@gn.apc.org> >...wrote; >>Have you not seen the >>stuff published by the present incumbent (I think his name is Nick Pope) >>of the MOD desk for UFO stuff, its certainly not for cerebral hygiene type >>skeptics or the fearful? >Nick Pope is not that informed on anything on the subject. One would think this >is surprising as the last AS2A. Anyway, he's currently working on the follow up >to 'Closed Minds' and contributing to a UK magazine, whose name I forget. No >mental hygiene here. >The present incumbant of the AS2A desk is the forthright and downright chatty >Kerry Philpott. >>Admiral of the Fleet The Lord Hill-Norton, GCB, > >Good to see he's still at it, but perhaps someone should point him away from >Nexus? >James D, Hi James. In October 1996 I had dinner and later some drinks with Jenny Randles (just juice) , Kent Jeffrey and Nick Pope. Anyway, Jenny was curious (my feeling) of what back-up knowledge Nick had about his "alien visitors"-claim and asked him if he really had anything to support his beliefs (he said he was working on a book about alien visitations), and Nick said: "It's just a hinch!" Jenny asked again if he had ANYTHING (!) to back him up and he answered again: "I have a gut feeling..." This can be seen as he didn't want to reveal his knowledge, but I'm convinced that he didn't have anything to go on from MoD. At his lecture he only repeated old known material as by Jenny and Paul Fuller etc. My point is - Mr. Pope seems to be another eager bookwriter with a somewhat "childish" approach to the UFO-phenomena and bases his oppinion on other UFOlogists findings instead of inside information of MoD, which also seems to be none existence. But he bought me a nice whiskey thou... Jorgen / WUFOC http://www.wufoc.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: wufoc | 76710.234 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Minuteman Launch/"Twilight Effect" to be seen by From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:28:27 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:37:38 -0500 Subject: Minuteman Launch/"Twilight Effect" to be seen by MINUTEMAN LAUNCH SCHEDULED FROM VANDENBERG "Twilight Effect" could be seen by local residents VANDENBERG AFB, CA (January 11) -- A Minuteman Satellite Launch System (MSLS) vehicle is scheduled for launch from Vandenberg AFB on Monday evening, January 13 at 19:21hrs (7:21 PM) PST. The launch window extends from 19:21hrs to 01:21hrs (7:21 PM to 1:21 AM) PST. If the launch occurs on-time at 7:21 PM, a unique phenomenon known as "Twilight Effect" may be seen throughout the greater Southern California area and other portions of the western United States. "Twilight Effect" is caused by the condensation and freezing of rocket exhaust in the upper atmosphere. Whipped around by higher altitude winds, the crystallized rocket exhaust is reflected by a setting or rising sun, producing an unusual rainbow of colors. "Twilight Effect" has sometimes been seen as far away as Arizona, Oregon, Nevada, and Utah -- prompting switchboards of police, fire, television and radio stations to be flooded with calls from an alarmed and unsuspecting public. The MSLS booster is a former Minuteman II InterContinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) that was purchased from the Lockheed Martin Corporation and converted into a three-stage satellite launch vehicle. The MSLS will be launched from a silo on North Vandenberg and used to place a Ballistic Missile Defense Organization (BMDO) payload into polar orbit. - end - JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Comments on Discovery programs From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Jan 97 13:21:27 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:40:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on Discovery programs >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:02:01 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Comments on Discovery programs Rebecca, As I said, this came from one of my correspondents who said the programs were originated at WETA (Channel 26) in DC. I passed it on clearly as hearsay, and FWIW. FWIW may be nothing! Bob BTW, I am hoping that the promised video of the program will actually be sent. I don't like responding to things I have not seen, but was simply sick and tired of hearing "McGovern said.........." from all directions. If McGovern is really saying what he is being quoted as saying, something is seriously wrong.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Morphic Resonance, the Philosophy of Science and From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:14:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:38:48 -0500 Subject: Morphic Resonance, the Philosophy of Science and >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >> A reasonable next step is to identify a list of "alternative >> positions" to consider. Rupert Sheldrake's theory of morphic resonance >> would be another reasonable candidate high on my own list. >Can you briefly state that theory and how it can be tested? >-- >Thanks, take care. >John. According to the hypothesis of morphic resonance, a kind of cumulative "memory" is inherent in nature. Rather than being governed by an internal mathematical mind, nature is shaped by "habits" subject to natural selection. Some of these habits are more fundamental than others, such as the habits of the hydrogen atom compared to the habits of animals or man. These fundamental habits are called constants. In this respect the habit hypothesis agrees with the conventional assumption of constancy, though for different reasons. The possibility that constants change over time is a serious consideration when comparing the ligh from galaxies relatively near and far away. Such methods suggest that there are systematic changes in fundamental constants. The values of these constants at any given time may vary as a result of changing environments. Experimental evidence suggests that even the constant "the speed of light" really does fluctuate from time to time. Even the tendency for experiments in a given epoch to agree with one another has been described by the delicate phrase "intellectual phase locking." Rather than to consider these differences seriously, there is a tendency to suggest that the results are close enough. Interestingly, even Planck's constant has seemed to creep up over time. Each of these increases exceeded the estimated error in the previously accepted values. The latest values show a slight decline. Perhaps the most interesting approach to think of holistic organization is the term "fields." The term field was first introduced to science by Michael Faraday in connection to electricity and magnetism. The concept was long limited to electromagnetism and light but extended to gravatation by Einstein in his theory of general relativity. Through the development of quantum physics, fields are now thought to underly all atomic and subatomic structure. Fields are inherently holistic and cannot be sliced up into bits. Therefore particles are now thought to arise from fields and even into strings and superstrings. The concepts of fields has made its way into other sciences and into biology in the 1920s when morphogenetic fields were postulated by embryologists and developmental biologists as invisible blueprints which shaped the organism. Sheldrake and others suggest that the concepts of homing, migration, the sense of space, bonding, social organization and communication in general can be understood in terms of fields and related to known principles of physics. Through Sheldrake's suggestions, it seems reasonable to explain most phenomena in terms of morphic fields, including psi, remote viewing, pre-cognition, false memory, reincarnation memory, and even ufo experience. Testing and measuring the implications of this hypothesis will follow much of Sheldrake's methodology proposed in his Do-It-Yourself Guide to Revolutionary Science: SEVEN EXPERIMENTS THAT COULD CHANGE THE WORLD, ISBN: 1-57322-014-0. I have personally experienced OOBE, RV, NDE, ET contact, dreams of former life experiences, including the Civil War, as an american indian, and over six months of dreams of a "holocaust death." I've had numerous similar experiences over my 59 years, including visitation by greys beginning Easter Sunday in 1942. It seems reasonable to explain all of this in terms of morphic resonance. Regards, Ernie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 The Two Faces of Ufology From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Jan 97 00:39:26 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:35:28 -0500 Subject: The Two Faces of Ufology >>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:02:01 -0500 (EST) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Comments on Discovery programs Dear Rebecca (and All), I have pulled one specific comment from your message to Bob Shell, and separated it into a new thread. I think it is more important than any one case or claim and encompasses a great deal in the field of Ufology and should be addressed that way. You said to Bob Shell: >> Why don't you check out these claims before they are posted >>because no doubt somebody somewhere will now believe, whether it true or not >>that Four WInds Production Group is based near the Pentagon and is some sort >>of gov't. front! >> Over the past two years something wonderful happened inside the UFO community. Ufology laid down some criteria for what it will accept. Tough new rules were put into place for what is acceptable proof, and tough questions were asked. Claims were expected to be backed up. What a wonderful new image for the UFO community! No longer did the world see it as "those gullible fools that will believe anything and everything". But what good are these new rules if we only apply them to people or claims that we don't like. Claims made by some people have been scrutinized practically down to the last syllable, while others have been taken at face value. One person that made inaccurate, or inadequate claims was ridiculed mercilessly, and even assigned a diminutive little nickname. Not such a good image for ufology, but if its acceptable to do that, it has to be applied to ALL those whose claims are found to be inaccurate. Regardless of whether they are on the 'correct' side of the fence or not. Some people state that they are unwilling to do any research on a case until certain requests have been met. That's perfectly alright, it's a personal choice and there are no rules saying that anyone has to research anything. If one wishes to sit quietly on the sidelines and watch they may do so. However, if they are sitting on the sidelines making claims to substantiate their own beliefs or opinions, should they not also be required to check those claims for accuracy before they spout them? Isn't there the same chance that those claims will be believed by somebody? And, while I don't personally care for the practice, if they are going to use those claims to try to discredit someone or accuse them of something, shouldn't they be even more careful that the claims are correct? If the field and topic are ever to be taken seriously there has to be a set of rules and those rules must be applied to every researcher, investigator, expert and witness in every case. Wouldn't it be wonderful and save us each a lot of time and research effort if we could depend on each person doing their homework! Or we could depend on each other to say they don't know for sure. Then we would know just what we need to check it. But it doesn't work that way. Instead we find things like a researcher making claims, but doesn't even know what Record Group of the National Archives to find documents on the topic being discussed. (Nothing personal, Ed. I know you only asked me for the references because you thought I didn't have them. I hope you were pleasantly surprised.) Credibility is everyones responsibility. We need to be sure that we actually check before we claim anything as fact and if we aren't sure, we say so. There is nothing wrong with saying you don't know or asking for help or information with things. In the case of the message I quoted you from, that is exactly what Bob Shell did. He heard it from a source and was asking for clarification on it. If you read it over, you will see that. He asked for clarification, which I noted you could and did provide, Rebecca. But you also stated he should have checked before he posted his request?? I personally would like to see the UFO topic taken more seriously. And I would like to see credibility and accountability as standards in the field. But some attitudes and double standards really need to be changed before that can happen. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Jan 97 13:02:07 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:41:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:55:25 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mendoza's Secret Life >Many >businesses serve as covers or channels for dissemination of information >publishers have certainly been encouraged or discouraged by governments >to withhold or promote certain points of view. Gary, Right on, my friend! I have learned the truth about publishers in the last two years. Conversation with representative of major "new age" publisher who has done several UFO books. Absolutely true. She listened to my proposal in detail for about twenty minutes, and then she said, "Gee, it sounds like this might be real!" I said, yes it probably was real. "Oh, we wouldn't be interested. That's just too scary!" I've had this same conversation, in several variations, with most of the major publishers who have UFO titles in their catalog. Bottom line from these publishers, if it is fluff, nonsense and bullsh**, they are delighted to publish it, and the sooner the better. If it is a serious book based on real research into a probably real phenomenon, they won't touch it with a ten foot pole. I'm sure this attitude accounts for the overall low quality of books in this field. If anyone has access to a publisher with a more enlightened point of view, I'd sure like to hear about it. I've written and co-written eighteen books so far, all about photographic topics, and never encountered anything like this weird attitude. It took me totally by surprise, and really makes no sense. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:07:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:42:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) >From: KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:12:46 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation Really? I was not aware there was a record of migration or colonization to another planet. Would you please enlighten the list? Inquiring minds would like to know. > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Equation > Date: Thu, 9 Jan 97 15:04:58 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Two words. "Mars rock" Mars rock aliens were sent on a forced migration. > From: David Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Drake's Ark > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:02:57 -0500 Pat, are you defining a meteor crashing into Mars with the force to send a rock flying to Earth as "forced migration"? I guess I'm a little more comfortable with that notion than I am with defining fossilized remains of a long-dead microscopic organism as an "alien". >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 03:12:34 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) I'd call it "forced", surely those bacteria didn't ask to be blasted into space <grin>. Now if we only knew whether or not the Disney test leak on the living, ammonia requiring, bacteria found in meteorites was true or not. Then we would might have a once in the universe example. I mentioned it thinking of it as a component of terraforming, James Oberg and others have written we might export entire ecosystems to other planets. Symposia have been held dealing with this topic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For me, this issue breaks down into two components: 1) What could (or should) our species do with respect to terraforming in the future (e.g., Growing bacteria on Shuttles in Earth's orbit? Inhabit a space station or a moon station? Grow crops or raise livestock on Mars? Send all the 'bad dogs' to Pluto? {Talk about yer Disney test}) 2) What is 'life' in the universe and how does it get from place to place (e.g., Which came first - life on Earth or life on Mars? Can bacteria survive inter-planetary voyages through space in a rock? Can the same be said of inter-solar system trips? Is life in our solar system trapped in somewhat of a 'closed' system bouncing around among a finite number of planets guided by ever-changing conditions and traveling on flying debris? Does life crop up anywhere if the conditions are right or did it 'start' somewhere and therefore could conceivably 'die out' in the universe? The second is probably the more interesting of the two topics and our general understanding of these questions will inevitably drive the former. I've heard it said that Carl Sagan's lasting effect will be that he framed a new Zeitgeist of astrophysics for the general TV viewing populous as science developed better technology and churned out new models of the universe (perhaps not as ultimately accurate, but at least based on more data than in the past). For example, in the '50s, abductees/experiencers typically reported that they were in contact with beings from 'Mars'. Now, the locations are more appropriately exotic. My view of the mainstream understanding of universal life is as follows: 1) Statistically speaking, based upon our best guess as to the number of solar systems in the universe, there is probably extraterrestrial life out there somewhere. (Given the current conditions - probably not elsewhere in our solar system right now) 2) Based upon our current understanding of time and space as well as the status of our current space traveling technologies - the vast distances and seemingly infinite possibilities make it highly unlikely that we'll ever bump into another 'higher order' life form. Of course, our species is generating more elaborate models for the physical and chemical make-up of the universe and our technology for long-distance travel and communication has made mind-boggling advances in the last few centuries. From continental migration by foot, to sailing vessels that brought the continents together, to automobiles and flying vehicles that turned once impossible journeys into a 'day trip', to space travel where the other planetary bodies of our solar system are conceivably within reach. The obvious next step is beyond our solar system. For those with high expectations of our first contact with extraterrestrial life, the Mars rock must seem rather disappointing. First off, it's dead (and has been for millions of years). Second, it's more a fossilized imprint than the thing itself. Finally, we can't really agree if it was 'life' at all, and if so, can't even be sure if it didn't originally come from Earth! A far cry indeed from a 'humanoid' entity with a flying saucer on the Whitehouse lawn... As far as the Mars rock being 'earth-shattering' proof of extraterrestrial life, it seems to have had it's greatest impact, sparking debate over various claims and bets that "In 1996 we made contact with 'extraterrestrials'/'aliens' for the first time!!!". Tedious theoretical hair-splitting at best, ugh! I guess it also puts more attention (& $) on Mars research, which should return interesting results one hopes. However, I'm somewhat disappointed by the Mars rock. I had something a little more like "The Day the Earth Stood Still" in mind... D Warning: The above may contain hearsay, misquotes, misattribution, the odd inadvertent misstatement of fact, and plenty of made-up stuff. Search for other documents from or mentioning: davangl | krandle993 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Message from Internet From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Jan 97 15:42:17 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:27:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Message from Internet >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:35:20 -0600 (CST) Chris credited Greg with the erudite, but rambling outpourings of that entity only known as 'James Diss', unsufficient to convey the varying levels of insanity present therein; >>Unfortunatley now employed by the DoD on non-lethal weaponry, which just >>goes and takes all the fun out of war. >Yes, he has a DoD contract. Why does that not surprise me? After all, >the government and military are known for their efficiency and logic, >are they not? Yes. Am I failing to detect a note of sarcasm, or is my paranoia showing? James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Physical Marks on Abductees From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Jan 97 15:42:14 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:26:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Physical Marks on Abductees >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:54:07 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Physical marks on abductees John copied the Doctors message that said; >>What lies directly behind the "thin bony septae?" Pituitary gland? Parts >>of the brain that control involuntary body functions such as breathing or >>heart beat? This is an important piece of info as it may provide some >>insight as to the purpose of the implants and proceedures relating to >>them. >Yes! The pituitary lies immediately behind the most posterior sinus, the >sphenoid. The pituitary connects to our body's 'cruise control' - the >hypothalamus via its stalk. Just to clarify, the Sphenoid posterior sinus is the furthest back of the sinus cavities connected to either Nasal Fossae and the rest of the sinus groupings. It extends back to the a vertical line roughly aligned with the base of the palate or the cheekbones. on vertical alignment, it's roughly level with the top third of the nose. However, I can find no reference, and I don't recall any, to the 'thin bony septae'. This appears to be plural, but the nearest thing I can find woud be the horizontal plate of ethmoid (leading into the brain case), the osseus laminae (inside the sphenoid), or the super turbinated bones of the Sphenoid. I severly doubt that it would be the palate <g> Could you confirm? James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Setting line breaks to 70 From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:53:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:29:56 -0500 Subject: Setting line breaks to 70 "for distribution" Anyone know the answer to this? Help with technical question! In regard to ebk's recent message: > UFO UpDates - Posting Instructions > ........... > > please observe the following rules when posting to the List. > > > 1. Line-length > > Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long > >------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- > > Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net >and leave awkward > and eye-jarring line lengths. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: I'm using the web-version of Eudora 1.5.1 for Macintosh as my mail program. I can set the _window_ size to 70 fairly easily. Does anyone know if it is possible to get the message sent out with line breaks at the end of each 70 characters, separate from adjusting window size, and how do I accomplish same without leaving the program? (or isn't it possible.) Looking for a quick fix or a new program, not a lengthy operation. In a technological quandary, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net P.S. Person forwarding a good, simple answer to this wins the "Good Samaritan" award for 1997 and a free pamphlet entitled "How to read, absorb and answer two hours worth of mail in 5 minutes." (I wish I knew the answer to that one too.) <grin>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:25:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:29:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? Regarding... >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 09:57:35 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Moon 'Photos'? >From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Bob Rickard commented, of 'Fortean Times' said: > To balance this, we are planning - in FT98 - to present some critical reactions. We are seeking rebuttals from any NASA scientists, astronomers or anyone who has special knowledge of lunar photography or the Apollo programme. If anyone can refer me to some expert of this nature, who'll venture a paragraph or two of response, please let me know.< Bob, I trust Bob Shell will not mind if I cross-post the following in response to your request. Bob wrote: I asked top photo experts, including some formerly employed by NASA's JPL for comment. Here is what the best had to say: "I don't know who this crackpot is, but regardless of his claimed credentials, he's either a photographic moron, a liar, a practical joker or crazy. Because his photographic comments are the most astonishing load of total nonsense. Just to point out a couple of obvious idiocies: 1) Apparent sun shadow vectors are NOT parallel in a photograph, unless the photo is made with a fairly long lens and/or is made in a direction well away from the sun vector. Apollo's 'Blads were frequently SWC models. I don't know if that's the *only* model that was strapped to the astronauts' chests, but because it was infeasible for them to look through a viewfinder and compose a scene, they basically had to aim by pointing themselves in what they thought was the right direction; lenses as short as a 36mm Biogon were used. You point such a lens in the general direction of the sun, as is true in most of the article's photos, and you will see significant shadow divergence. You can calculate that trivially simply from the rules of projective geometry and perspective. I went to my own files and found comparable shots, in terms of lens coverage and sun position. Yup, HUGE shadow divergence, comparable to what's in those "fake lunar" photos. 2) Lunar landscape acts as one big fill reflector. Especially when it's fill light which is being backscattered directly towards the subject, as in those backlit shots. The "inky" blackness of lunar shadows only applies to objects facing space, where there is no fill from the lunar surface nor any "skylight" fill. The photo which points out fill on the spacesuit along with a dead black shadow is not evidence of an elevated fill light-- a fill light would also fill in the shadow. It *is* consistant with fill from the lunar surface. 3) The specular visor reflection in the TV picture is an excellent example of blooming in the vidicon when faced with an image of the sun. It is not an example of a large source-- you'd be unable to tell the size of the source at all, due to such blooming. 4) Other so-called reflections of fill lights in the 'Blad photos are very obviously reflections of the sunlit lunar surface-- they are not remotely bright enough to be reflections of fill lights. 5) Reference is made to a very long thin shadow as being evidence of an extended light source near the subject. Extended light sources near subjects do NOT produce sharp, long, thin shadows. 6) Multiple light sources do not produce *single* shadows pointing in different directions, unless screens are very carefully used to make sure that each part of the scene is only illuminated by a single (different) source. In that case, you won't see fill on the subjects. If you do have multiple lights, some producing fill, you'll see multiple shadows. 7) Regarding the sun angle in Apollo 17, they did land shortly after dawn, although I don't know if the sun angle was ever as low as 5 degrees. When they left the moon, the sun was nearing 45 degrees elevation. A photo showing a "high" sun angle is hardly a surprise. Also, the guy's methods for measuring sun angles within the photo is completely and totally bogus, and once again shows zero knowledge of projective geometry or basic rules of geometric perspective. Finally, using the crotch of the suit as an indicator, rather than the supposed "head" of the shadow, which is actually off-frame, one gets a sun angle1/3 lower than his, not even doing the geometry correctly. I am not amused. Maybe this is how you like to waste your time. I don't. Frankly, I found Dick Hoagland's Face on Mars a lot more credible and at least had a good time proving it wasn't a "face". This wasn't even good intellectual exercise". I believe this qualifies as a rebuttal. James. Internet; pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Jan 97 15:37:18 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:25:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in Thanks to Glenn Campbell for posting the information about Gordon Cooper's interview with National Enquirer. I'd like to point out that this information is not new, and this interview, in spite of their claims, is not exclusive. Back in 1995 Mike Hesemann showed me his video interview with Gordon Cooper in which everything in this article was covered in detail, and more. Whether people choose to believe Cooper or not, interviews should not be misrepresented as "first" or "exclusive" when neither applies. Personally, I think Cooper is telling the truth about his UFO encounters, but his comments about the coverup are hearsay and speculation, just like most others. I hear we now have to backdate things again, since Dr. Wolf says the first UFO crash and recovery was in 1941. This makes the coverup a bit older. No surprise to me, since the son of a man who was in charge of pilot training at Roswell in the early 40s told me that things were already going on there as early as 1943, when his father was first posted there, and there was the downing of a Mustang by a UFO in 1945 at Roswell. I think this whole thing is older than 50 years, by a WHOLE lot of years. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: 'Roswell's 50th' - Rumour Mill From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:54:13 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:30:49 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Roswell's 50th' - Rumour Mill UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Little Grey Whispers..... > Roswell - The Event > Speakers - Provisional > Bob Dean , Linda Howe, Stan Friedman, Michael Lindemann, > Paul Davids, John Mack, Budd Hopkins, Whitley Strieber, and > - I'm really not ready for this - (damn, _this_ is going to > make our trip down there worthwhile!) Don Schmitt and William > Shatner on the same stage, like uh, y'know, like, uh, like > talking Yew-fos. Gawd, I hope Shatner doesn't sing..... > Who _is_ doing the booking down there? Kevin have you decided > yet? > There will be a rock concert--"limited to 150,000 persons." > 150,000? Are there _that_ many ufologists? > Additional events include a 'bibical-UFO drama' titled > 'Ezekiel's Wheels'. Ooooooo, now _that's_ entertainment. > [Cue Billy Preston] "Will it go round in circles, > Will it fly high, like a bird up in the sky?" > SHUT UP, BILLY! Have we got a date for the Roswellfest extravaganza ? Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Morphic Resonance, the Philosophy of Science and From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:23:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:28:05 -0500 Subject: Morphic Resonance, the Philosophy of Science and Morphic resonance is not used here as a means of explaining away ufo experience. Morphic resonance, as a hypothesis, is a means of explaining the mechanisms which underlie the experience or experiences themselves. The advantage or bias of morphic resonance as a means of understanding ufo and other seemingly anomalous or "extraordinary" experience (especially when compared with "ordinary" experience) is that morphic resonance tends to suggest that these experiences have a basis in "fact" and that they are not isolated, not uniquely individual, nor are they some form of hallucination. In fact, that these seemingly obscure experiences share with a larger body of common experience, such as social behavior and communication, implies that ufo experience may be more mainstream than previously recognized or understood. Conventional scientific theories are framed within the paradigm of the contracted mind: body schema, images, thoughts, ideas, even experience must begin primarily in the brain or with the biocomputer interacting with the immediate environment, even with tools such as telescopes, microscopes, etc. , reacting directly with the the immediate environment. However, if the mind, like the matter of physics is extended into a field both within and beyond the body, there is no need to confine the body image to the brain or to the nervous system. The extended mind resembles the traditional ideas of the soul pervading and animating the body. However, it is important, perhaps, to interpret this concept in terms of fields. The body itself is organized and pervaded by fields. According to the hypothesis of formative causation, morphogenetic, behavioral, mental, social and other fields are different kinds of morphic fields, containing an inherent memory both from the individual's own past, and a collective memory from countless other people who have gone before, as well as all of us who are here and now. Morphic Resonance Anecdote 1: A few years ago, after I concluded that there may be more "substance" to my experiences than I had previously recognized, I decided that a Rottweiler might prove to be a deterrent to unwanted "abduction" episodes. I kept my dog in the bedroom at night. Although the dog appeared to be diligent and on guard during the night, seemingly watching the stars from the bedroom window, when I sensed an impending instrusion, I would hear the dog fall to the floor just before I seemed to lose consciousness, myself. In the morning, I would awaken to find the dog sniffing my body from to to bottom, an activity he never performed on mornings when I felt somewhat assured I had not been "visited." While the dog was not able to prevent a visitation, he did appear to provide some sense of verification that I had, in fact, experienced something outside of my "normal" nightly routine. Futhermore, the dog seemed despondent and appeared to behave as if he had let me down. After several similar episodes, I "told" the dog that I accepted that fact that he could not deter these visitations and that it was something he could not control. Our "conversation" seemed to elevate his "spirit" and he soon returned to his normal behavior. (This observation is purely anecdotal and is not presented as evidence or proof.) Morphic Resonance Anecdote 2: One evening while observing my dog sleeping and apparently "dreaming" and behaving in a rather highly animated fashion in his sleep, I wondered whether dogs remembered their dreams, and if they did, could they differentiate dreams from reality. Did they possess any sense of having "dreamed?" I posed the question rhetorically to my wife at the time. That same night, I dreamed that I had a very animated and intense conversation with my dog. As I recall, the conversation, while intense was seemingly telepathic. I have no recollection of speech or of the dog making sounds or facial movements. I do recall that the dog and I were seemingly face to face. The content of the discussion had to do with the dog's sense of being restrained and not sharing the same sense of freedom that cats had to come and go at their leisure. Since my dog is quite large, vocal and protective of his territory, I restrain him often. In the dream he expressed his displeasure with my restraints of his freedom and complained that he should have as much or more freedom than the cats. I explained leash laws and my own concerns and he assured me that I had nothing to be concerned about and this was an issue which violated his own basic rights of self determination. I did not agree. Finally in an act of frustration, he held my wrist in his jaws stating that he could snap my arm with a single bite. In anger, I responded that if he did I would have him put to "sleep." With that said, I immediately awoke, sat up at the edge of my bed, and felt a sense of guilt at having been so cruel in my response. The dog immediately awoke and walked to me and licked my wrist where he had held it in the dream.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels From: Glenn Sheper <gscheper@gentech.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:57:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:31:41 -0500 Subject: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels I would let you know that I have amassed now 1600 links, mostly to mind/psi/spirit/ufo type of pages, in: http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/bookmark.htm But more importantly, I have placed a new page: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/ezekiel.htm Which starts like this... ----- (And as I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal in he midst of the fire. ----- Ezekiel had a vision of a specifically twentieth-century object, an automotive internal combustion engine, which is a rotating gaseous process, or a whirlwind in the KJV. The terms cloud, fire, light, and glowing metal above refer to the pre-ignition gases, the spark, the combustion flame, and the spark plug, respectively. ----- Bon appetit! gscheper@gentech.com Glenn Scheper's Home Page: http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/home.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: The Rockefeller Report 1/2 From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:08:47 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:44:59 -0500 Subject: Re: The Rockefeller Report 1/2 > Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:32:27 GMT > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> > Subject: The Rockefeller Report 1/2 > I believe the devious Philip Mantle asked for this file. I suspect he needs > it for his research for an upcoming magazine (UFO 2000?!?!). > I would have a quick think about where the money cames from? Please pick an > answer: > * Lottery Fund > * Autopsy Film Money > * His hard earned savings > Please give me your views [BIG snip] I don't know who Ian Read is but like most he's way off the mark. My inteest in the 'Rockefeller Report' is purely out of interest on a UFO documentary series I am consulting on. Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:30:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:47:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life Gary wrote, about Peter Brookesmith's possible secret identity as a counterintelligence agent: > If character assasination, misrepresentation and disinformation qualify > as UFO skepticism then maybe I misread the book. UFO skeptics can be just as major idiots as everyone else. Doesn't mean they're intelligence operatives. > Yes, skeptics do exist and they do publish books. However, intelligence > operations do target the mind and thoughts of individuals and the public > in general. Journalists are a common cover for intelligence > operatives. Just this year in Congressional hearings this was discussed > once again; this is old news and a very old, very useful cover. Many > businesses serve as covers or channels for dissemination of information > publishers have certainly been encouraged or discouraged by governments > to withhold or promote certain points of view. Sure. Most of the concrete information I've seen about that dates from the '50s. What's missing in your presentation is anything concrete about how common this is. Should we be looking for it everywhere, or only occasionally? > There are many signs of an operative counterintelligence operation at > work in the UFO field. There is no reason to dismiss this possibility > apriori. I didn't notice that I'd dismissed it a priori. I just wanted proof. > You are of course entitled to this opinion; however, this of course begs > addressing the issues that aroused Brian's suspicions about this book in > the first place. Gary, nobody has yet addressed those issues. In fact, this was going to be my final point. The best way to counter disinformation would be with facts. A good solid list from you or Brian of mistakes or misrepresentations or character assassinations in Peter's book would do much more to counter its effect than unsubstantiated charges will. Fight disinformation with truth. Or am I supposed to believe that the book might be deliberate disinformation because you and others (and maybe even I myself) think it's so very wrong? That's not going to get us anywhere, except possibly to a belief that many ufologists, too, have to be intelligence agents. This is very dangerous territory. I could accuse you and Brian of spreading official disinformation, in an attempt to distract the UFO community. I could accuse Stan Friedman and/or Kevin Randle. Maybe they're intelligence agents, staging their public feud in order to distract us from the truth about Roswell. I could accuse anyone I want, anyone I disagree with, anyone I don't like. Since proof isn't required -- only, apparently, your general statement that these things do occur -- who can contradict me? What disturbs me, in the end, is that these accusations aren't falsifiable. Because secret government activity is, by definition, secret, it's always possible to assume that it's <so> secret we can't find out about it. Thus, we can accuse anyone of disinformation, even without evidence, or even if the evidence points the other way. (If evidence surfaced that Peter, let's say, is honest, that evidence could itself be disinformation!) To stay reasonable, do the following: 1. Devote your energy to the substance of Peter's book. Prove he's wrong. Fight error with truth. Fight even known disinformation with truth. 2. Don't make accusations unless you have concrete evidence to back them up. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Belated 'Anniversary' - HAL's Birth Day From: "Bill Knapp" <Bill.Knapp@comdev.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:51:31 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:46:13 -0500 Subject: Belated 'Anniversary' - HAL's Birth Day ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Ian Chadwick" <ichadwick@georgian.net> To: "Bill Knapp" <Bill.Knapp@comdev.ca> Subject: Re: (Fwd) Monkey Dies after Completing 14-Day Bion Mission Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:27:21 -0800 HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAL! Take a moment on Sunday to send your best wishes to the HAL 9000 computer, which was supposedly brought to consciousness on January 12, 1997 in Urbana, Illinois. "2001" remains a wonderfully astonishing vision of the future. It's too bad that reality is not keeping up with the fertile mind of Arthur C. Clarke, either in the realm of artificial intelligence or space travel. Clarke is well known for coming up with ideas in his fiction that work in real life. It was he who figured out -- "invented", if you will, in a story in 1945 -- geosynchronous communications satellites, which seem to hover at just under 22,300 miles above the equator -- a belt known by many in the business as the "Clarke Orbit".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Video of 'Object' in Moon Orbit From: Steve Nalepa <s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:10:55 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:55:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Video of 'Object' in Moon Orbit Hello, My name is Steve Nalepa and I am a reasearcher for the television news program Strange Universe. We are a national nightly news program covering a wide range of unusual, extraordinary news, spanning new technology, the space program, conspiracies, mysteries, miracles, psychics, ufos, etc. I recently came across The Lunascan Project, and I am very interested in finding out more about it. Can you actually see an object in orbit around the moon in the video? I would love to hear more about this project, and we are very interested in seeing the video, possibly to do a segment on it. Could you please e-mail me back or give me a call at: Strange Universe Steve Nalepa (818) 972-9816 x211 e-mail: s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com Thanks a lot. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Peace, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 WUFOC news update From: Jorgen Westman <west@tripnet.se> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:13:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:57:54 -0500 Subject: WUFOC news update Hello. WUFOC has a brand new News-update with 46 of the latest UFO-articles at: http://www.wufoc.com WUFOC has also a new email-adress: wufoc@wufoc.com Enjoy! Jorgen Westman, webmaster.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Information Sought & 'B2' Sighting From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:54:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:56:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Information Sought & 'B2' Sighting Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:23:38 -0600 (CST) From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Information Sought & 'B2' Sighting > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:41:19 -0500 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: INFORMATION SOUGHT & B2 SIGHTING > To: UFO UPDATES TORONTO <updates@globalserve.net> > Dear Colleagues, > I was hoping someone with more knowledge about these matters than I could > confirm the following: > "US Naval submarines do not carry surface to air missiles" > In light of the TWA 800 incident, perhaps someone can shed light on this? (>)To the best of my knowledge, which is by no means extensive, US Naval (>)Submarines do not carry surface to air missiles. (>)There is one exception. The Seawolf Submarine, at least when I was (>)interested in subs, was going to include SAM missles on it's mast. Many thanks to you and all respondents who took the trouble to help me in this request - much appreciated. Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 'Strange Universe' Pine Bush special From: "Bruce Cornet" <bcornet@monmouth.com> (by way of jvif@spacelab.net (John Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:44:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:30:29 -0500 Subject: 'Strange Universe' Pine Bush special Hi all, Thought I'd pass this one along. John Velez =================================== Attention: Watch Strange Universe on 15 January 1997. Forward this email to those you think will be interested. A segment on the UFO phenomenon around Pine Bush, New York, will air early Wednesday morning just after Midnight EST (15 January). Plan to stay up late Tuesday night to watch the show. In the Pine Bush segment I am interviewed, along with six other abductees or experiencers and UFO investigators. The interviews took place at a group gathering in the Veterans of Foreign Wars meeting hall in downtown Pine Bush. Featured in interviews were (in alphabetical order): Dr. Bruce Cornet John diTuro Barbara Hartwell* Dawn Lay Susan Mann John Mann Jim Smith Walter Von Ignatius It is uncertain whether all of us will be on the segment. Ellen Crystall may have been interviewed separately, but it is uncertain whether she will be on the show. Bruce Cornet bcornet@monmouth.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 UFOIA Sighting Report From: <awyn@cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:08:45 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:31:29 -0500 Subject: UFOIA Sighting Report ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:43:00 -0800 From: Randy Warneke <rwarneke@boris.dataworks.com> To: <awyn@kalypso.cybercom.net> Subject: Hot Flash Sighting Report **********************HOT News Flash************************* (Unidentified Flying Objects Investigation Agency. International) You are receiving this UFOIA HOT FLASH because you have interest in UFO = =20 phenomenon. If you have not become a member of UFOIA send E-mail request = =20 to UFOIA@aol.com . Or go to our Web page on the net and fill out the on-line form : UFOIA Internationals Web Page =20 http://www.imagic.be/~mbruyninckx/ This Web page is run by the Director of Operations for Belgium. UFOIA is = =20 a UFO investigating agency that receives and investigates current UFO =20 reports through its Hot Line, the Internet and e-mail from around the =20 world. UFOIA hopes to serve the public with current UFO sightings, =20 topics, views, dates and times of upcoming meetings and events, and =20 listings of UFO related groups. **************************************************************=20 ******** UFOIA International Sighting Report Date: 12/21/96 Time: 08:00 Location: Hemit California SIT Team No: 0001 Weather Conditions at Time of Sighting: Clear Interviewee's Comments: XXXX's Parents Phone Number: XXX-XXX-XXXX XXXX XXXXXX XX St Hemitt California --------------------- Forwarded message: From: XXXXX@XXXXXXX.XXX (XXXX XXXXXXX) Reply-to: XXXXX@XXXXXXX.XXX To: UFOIA@aol.com Date: 96-12-26 01:42:02 EST I don't know if you are the people who can answer this or help me out. =20 But, my parents live in Hemet, CA. Five days ago, they went outside to =20 their backyard in the morning and found a 10 foot wide circle in their =20 backyard. The circle was drawn with some sort of black substance. Almost = =20 like a magic marker or something like that. The circle was perfectly =20 round. Almost at the center of the circle (but a little off center) was a = =20 spot about five inches across that looked like something or someone had =20 taken acid and burned the top layer of the cement off. The gate that =20 leads to the backyard has a lock on it so no heavy equipment could have =20 entered. The neighborhood has several houses in it. A quick look of the =20 backyard showed that nothing else was touched or burned. I am not saying = =20 that this is or isn't something to do with U.F.O.'s. But, I thought since = =20 you deal in many of these types of cases, that you may have some sort of = =20 clue of what could have done this. My parents are quite normal and I am a = =20 law enforcement officer. It just doesn't make sense to me. I was hoping =20 you may be able to make some sense out of it. Thank you in advance, XXXX Sit Team Leaders Comments: Saturday Jan 11, 1997 Called local Flight Center: No unusual activity. Called Local Police: No reported problems in area.. Called XXXX XXXXXXX parents and made arrangements to interview them on Jan 11th Saturday morning. They are going to cover the exposed area, =20 and allow us to get a sample if no property damage will occur. Hemit California is located approximately 20 Miles S - SE of Riverside =20 California. Population 52900 Elev 1590 Ft. I arrived early and drove around the neighborhood+ It seemed to be a =20 quite retiree type neighborhood. Well maintained. Sighting Report Continued The following is transcribed from the Interview+. Sit: Has there been any problems or any unusual activity reported from =20 any of your neighbors ? Interviewee : No.. this is a very quite neighborhood, and we look out =20 for each other. Sit: Has anything like this ever happened to you or your family before ? Interviewee: No.. We don't believe in UFO's Sit: What Time did you and your Husband go to bed that Night.? Interviewee: Around 11 pm+ Sit: Where there any unusual sounds that either you or your husband =20 heard, that night? Interviewee: No. Everything seemed Normal. Sit: When was the last time you saw the area, before this circle =20 appeared ? Interviewee: That afternoon. There was no scaring or circle on the =20 concrete. Sit: What time and who discovered the circle? Interviewee: Around 08:00 am, by my Husband+ At first he didn't think = =20 anything of it. Then he mentioned it to me+ and we wondered how it got =20 there+. I talked to my son (County Sheriff Deputy) and he contacted =20 you. Sit: May I take a look at the area, and video tape the circle, for =20 analysis? Interviewee: yes please do. At this Time I went into the back+ Both Gates are Padlocked. The Cement area is about 14 ft wide, and 20 ft long+ in the middle of =20 this concrete pad was a circle, that looked like something had been set = =20 on it. It was 10ft wide at the widest part. The line around the circle = =20 was from 3/8 of an inch to =BC in thick.. The concrete finish was scored+ (like an acid had been set on it.) Vegetation around the area =20 was untouched. Off center in the circle was a four inch area that =20 matched the outer edge+ scored concrete. I then video taped the area. A sample was not obtained because it would of done property damage. How and by whom this was made is unknown. It does not look like it was vandalism....or created naturally. It does not appear to this investigator that these people would perpetuate a hoax. Randolph B Warneke SIT Team #0001 Director of Global Operations UFOIA Int'l Release Authorization: I__________________________ hereby release this information to the UFOIA International Investigative agencies representative. I further authorize that they may use my Name with this attached report. I__XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX_ hereby release this information to the UFOIA International Investigative agencies representative. I understand that they will use this report but keep my name from being used in connection with this report. ( Side note: This investigation will be part of the UFOIA Int'l training video) ************************************************************************** = =20 If you have current sightings, testimonials of your personal sightings or = =20 UFO experiences, please feel free to contact UFOIA. All stories =20 submitted to the UFOIA are for the use of the HOT FLASH and UFOIA's =20 newsletter and UFOIA has the right to publish them in its electronic =20 newsletter and a any future hard copy mail-out publications. The views =20 expressed herein reflect the individual views of our members and not =20 necessarily the overall view of UFOIA . ************************************************************************** = =20 Search for other documents from or mentioning: awyn | rwarneke | ufoia
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Comments on Discovery programs From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:56:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:32:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on Discovery programs > Date: 10 Jan 97 18:19:02 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Comments on Discovery programs [snipped] > People have called me paranoid for saying that Kodak may not have been dealing > with me in good faith. I have suggested that Kodak has close ties to the US > military and US govt. A letter written by T.J. Hargrave, President of Eastman > Kodak Company on August 20, 1945 and sent to all Kodak dealers has this > statement in it: "Our operation of one of the three large-scale plants in the > atomic-bomb project has, for instance, just been disclosed." What Kodak ties > and projects have not been disclosed? Read with sarcasm: Yes Bob you must really be paranoid to think that Kodak would have such close ties. The US government would deliberately choose to ignore a significant concentration of researchers, chemical scientists, optical engineers and manufacturing capability in the nation which possesses technologies important to national security. Besides no one knows from open sources that the DCI, Director of Central Intelligence, went to the Rochester Institute of Technology to make an address on technologies used by the intelligence community. And lets just ignore information from open sources that Kodak developed the CCD megapixel arrays used in our surveillance satellites, or that Kodak developed the film and optics used in reconnaisance planes - gee, I didn't see that information on display in a public exhibition. Those are the signs of paranoia Bob. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:37:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:35:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life > Date: 12 Jan 97 13:02:07 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mendoza's Secret Life > >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:55:25 -0500 > >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mendoza's Secret Life > >Many > >businesses serve as covers or channels for dissemination of information > >publishers have certainly been encouraged or discouraged by governments > >to withhold or promote certain points of view. > Right on, my friend! > I have learned the truth about publishers in the last two years. > Conversation with representative of major "new age" publisher who has done > several UFO books. Absolutely true. She listened to my proposal in detail for > about twenty minutes, and then she said, "Gee, it sounds like this might be > real!" I said, yes it probably was real. "Oh, we wouldn't be interested. > That's just too scary!" > I've had this same conversation, in several variations, with most of the major > publishers who have UFO titles in their catalog. > Bottom line from these publishers, if it is fluff, nonsense and bullsh**, they > are delighted to publish it, and the sooner the better. If it is a serious book > based on real research into a probably real phenomenon, they won't touch it with > a ten foot pole. I'm sure this attitude accounts for the overall low quality of > books in this field. > If anyone has access to a publisher with a more enlightened point of view, I'd > sure like to hear about it. I've written and co-written eighteen books so far, > all about photographic topics, and never encountered anything like this weird > attitude. It took me totally by surprise, and really makes no sense. > Bob Have your tried Hampton Roads Publishing Company 134 Burgess Lane Charlottesville, VA 22902 804 296 2772 They published Paul Hills excellent scientific analysis of UFOs - Unconventional Flying Objects. After I read Paul Hills book I asked this publisher for its catalog, oddly his book seems to be the first of its kind they published. Its interesting that this publishing house which publishes mostly new age type books. Unfortunately Paul Hill was apparently forced by pressure from NASA to publish posthumously. You might also try the publisher(s) of some of Raymond Fowlers books. They might be seen as pretty scary by some - they are in print. His current publisher has a web site -try a alta vista search for Raymond Fowler or The Watchers. The resistance you are experiencing does make one wonder what has created or maintained the attitudes you have related. Gary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:31:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:34:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:36:08 -0500 >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:11:23 -0500 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs ....snip.... >> JC: Hmmn. What did they say the Catalina sighting was? Who did the >> analysis? Who confirmed this analysis? Where is this material for us >> to see? >I _think_ this was done up in a recent IUR article. They said it was an >airplane, I don't recall who did the research, I don't think it was >independently replicated, and I think there were photographs and stuff >in the article. JC: I have to go through my IUR issues and find that. I don't remember seeing it. If you say its there, we'll take a look. ....snip.... >> Howeover, _this_ remaining core dataset should be the primary focus of >> ufology. >> JC: Agreed. >_Finally_ <GRIN>. (That really was the only point I was trying to >make...) JC: Who me, knitpick? >> >There's at least one good (or sensible to some <grin>) reason why the >> >really good UFO stuff didn't go to Bluebook. Bluebook was a PIO >> >quasi-investigative operation and if they had to explain a particular >> >sighting as being an advanced USAF R&D craft I rather think the folks >> >at the DoD would get upset... >> >I suspect that if the DoD would be forthcoming with declassification >> >and disclosure we could whittle our core dataset down to around 5%. >> JC: Well, the Bollender Memo apparently did confirm part of what you >> are saying. But as for your last sentence, this is your opinion to >> which you are certainly entitled. However, it is not shared by this >> researcher. I believe it is quite possible the percentage could be a >> lot higher than this. Why do I think this? Again, in your most honest >> opinion, upon close inspection does the following case from 1965, >> quoted by Dr. Hynek from Blue Book files, sound like it was "an >> advanced USAF R&D craft?" Look at the speed and hoverability. >Higher!? Naaa. What I'm saying is that we start with a core dataset >and then the gov't tells us which ones are theirs. (Pretend we live in >a perfect world.) ....snip.... JC: Now _that's_ a "haha." Only if your original numbers were on the money. As I was trying to say, if you find that _one_ case that really satisfies your scientific quest for truth regarding UFOs, you may find yourself wanting to microscopically examine some of the dust on those rocks we've been looking under, and reexamining others we just "tossed" aside. >Sure, we can all throw away the data once they land and say "Hi!" JC: Gee, I wasn't thinking about a landing. Even if we had one, if I was you, I wouldn't throw that data away. So we have a landing, nationally televised from the White House lawn. It could still be a scam by the television networks or a publicity gimmick by press-hungry politicians. :-) >> If "they" actually got >> here, where are they staying? You might have to ask; "Did they just >> stop in for a drive around the block, or with the effort and cost it >> probably took to get here, did they have a purpose?" How do we >> presently study other species? Are they studying us? How might they do >> this? etc. >These questions are best put to somene who _believes_ ...... JC: That was only _if_ you found that _1_ case. > But at this point in time I think its a leap to > try to answer these questions. JC: Yes, at the present point in your study. >Except the question: "How do we presently study other species?" We >snatch a few samples from the field, open 'em up and see how they tick. JC: Or tag them and track them? Hmmn, then _if_ we found that one case, we might also have a philosophical problem (amongst others) here. :-) Some, of what appear to you to be "way-out" claims, might take on new meaning. This is purely philosophically speaking of course. >I personally think we should be trying to shoot down UFOs every chance >we get so we can open 'em up and see how they tick. JC: With the technology being described in cases like the 1989/90 Belgium sightings (police version), you better hope you miss. :-) One of those "unreliable" witnesses, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Best-Yet Images of Jupiter\'s Moon Europa to be From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:37:13 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:56:17 -0500 Subject: Best-Yet Images of Jupiter\'s Moon Europa to be Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC January 13, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk NOTE TO EDITORS: N97-3 BEST-YET IMAGES OF JUPITER'S MOON EUROPA TO BE PRESENTED New images from NASA's Galileo mission showing remarkably diverse styles of geologic resurfacing on Jupiter's icy moon Europa will be discussed in a press briefing at 1 p.m. EST on Friday, Jan. 17. The briefing will originate from the auditorium at NASA Headquarters in Washington, DC, and will be carried live on NASA Television. Most of the images to be discussed were taken during Galileo's close pass of the Jovian moon on Dec. 19, 1996, when the spacecraft came within 430 miles of Europa's surface, which may cover a liquid subsurface ocean. Galileo flew more than 200 times closer to Europa than the Voyager 2 spacecraft did in 1979. Participants in the briefing will include Galileo imaging team scientists Dr. Ron Greeley and Dr. Robert Sullivan, both of Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ. NASA Television is available through the Spacenet 2 satellite on transponder 5, channel 9, 69 degrees West longitude, frequency 3880 MHz, audio subcarrier 6.8 MHz, horizontal polarization. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Skywatch: Continuing Video from Phoenix From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:58:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:57:29 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: Continuing Video from Phoenix ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- To: geibdan@qtm.net From: xalium@netwrx.net (Tom King) Subject: Video from Phoenix continues. Cc: skywatch@wic.net Last week a local skywatcher in the Phoenix area videotaped a strange looking black ball flying over the valley. The object returned on Sunday January 12th and Mike DeVarennes taped this strange object again. Except this time the object was much closer than last time and was hovering at a very low altitude. The video shows a black puck type object hovering with the camera locked down on a tripod and trees are seen on both sides of the object. The most interesting thing about this one is the rapid start and stops the object makes. It does a quick series of 180 degree turns and bobs like its on water. Also noted it appeared in almost the same spot as the last video at nearly the sametime of day and just over 1 week apart. Making this the second video shot in Phoenix and 1997 has barely begun! Tom King ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ---------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: skywatch | geibdan |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:08:40 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:58:41 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- At 01:06 AM 1/11/97 -0500, Chris Rutkowski wrote: >Tom: >As I noted, this was my *first* question. Persinger's original TST >relied specifically on natural EM fields, so that was what I was >querying. > >It's true now that Persinger uses EM fields of strengths (as he puts >it) "less than that of a hair dryer." Obviously, people expose >themselves to this type of thing every day. In fact, such fields would >be encountered so often that one could then expect field-induced >hallucinations on a constant basis! My computer has a field stronger >than a hair dryer, for example, and I sit in front of it for 8-10 hours >per day. And *dare* I mention the cellular-phone debate, in which such >fields would be in *direct* contact with users' temporal lobes? > >The major problem is not with the possibility that such fields can >induce physiological effects. The problems are that Persinger attempts >to explain a broad range of phenomena and also that his methodology has >been shown to be flawed on previous occasions. > > >-- >Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca >(and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) >University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada It should be noted that the intensity of a magnetic field decreases with the square of the distance. That means the field intensity will decrease very rapidly as distance increases. The coils (or magnetic source) would either have to be extremely close (next to the brain) or extremely intense at even a moderate distance. That is why a cell phone is worse on you than standing next to a FM transmitting tower. Any naturally occuring field that could effect the brain would have to have the intensity of an EMP bomb to really affect someone. Also, magnetic fields and electrostatic field are not the same. Some people have claimed Travis Walton's experience was due to a local high discharge of geo-peizo generated voltage. That's more like an electric shock than a magnetic interferrence. Pretty unlikely, too. Just take a look at lightning. Instantaneous, high voltage discharge through the lowest resistance path (can take it all over the place PHYSICALLY). Here we have an intense light source hovering closeby near the ground more than 1 color and appearing solid. Then a bright beam of light is emmited toward Travis. This would equate to a "discharge" and would immediately affect the source (diminish it) but all witnesses say that did not happen- The "UFO" was still there in place hovering no changes. If the "ufo" had changed or disappeared or at least moved or changed size, the piezo hypothesis might have looked better. But, there's still the "abuction experience" to deal with. Peizo (NOT electromagnetic) discharge could shock you, knock you out, even erase your memory. Such a specific memory of an experience with no dream-like violations of reality are unlikely. Without electromagnetic fields (sustained over some time, yet) NO fanatsies can be induced into the brain. Carefull analysis of the facts and no corroberation of the so called Persinger test effect with a real abductee/experiencer to compare the 2 experiences leads to easy rejection of the hypothesis. All too often skeptics and debukers generalise their facts to fit the case and ignore the ones that don't fit. Just plain bad science if you ask me. Joel Henry ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html Search for other documents from or mentioning: jhenry | rutkows |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Massive Black Holes Dwell in Most Galaxies From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:36:10 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:05:43 -0500 Subject: Massive Black Holes Dwell in Most Galaxies Don Savage Headquarters, Washington, DC January 13, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1547) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Tammy Jones Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD (Phone: 301/286-5566) Ray Villard Space Telescope Science Institute, Baltimore, MD (Phone: 410/338-4514) RELEASE: 97-9 MASSIVE BLACK HOLES DWELL IN MOST GALAXIES, ACCORDING TO HUBBLE CENSUS Announcing the discovery of three black holes in three normal galaxies, an international team of astronomers suggests that nearly all galaxies may harbor supermassive black holes which once powered quasars (extremely luminous nuclei of galaxies), but now are quiescent. This conclusion is based on a census of 27 nearby galaxies carried out by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and ground-based telescopes in Hawaii, which are being used to conduct a spectroscopic and photometric survey of galaxies to find black holes which have consumed the mass of millions of Sun-like stars. The findings, being presented today at the 189th Meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Toronto, Canada, should provide insights into the origin and evolution of galaxies, as well as clarify the role of quasars in galaxy evolution. The key results are: * Supermassive black holes are so common that nearly every large galaxy has one. * A black hole's mass is proportional to the mass of the host galaxy, so that, for example, a galaxy twice as massive as another would have a black hole that is also twice as massive. This discovery suggests that the growth of the black hole is linked to the formation of the galaxy in which it is located. * The number and masses of the black holes found are consistent with what would have been required to power the quasars. "We believe we are looking at 'fossil quasars' and that most galaxies at one time burned brightly as a quasar," says team leader Doug Richstone of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. These conclusions are consistent with previous Hubble Space Telescope observations showing quasars dwelling in a variety of galaxies, from isolated normal-looking galaxies to colliding pairs. Two of the black holes "weigh in" at 50 million and 100 million solar masses in the cores of galaxies NGC 3379 (also known as M105) and NGC 3377 respectively. These galaxies are in the "Leo Spur," a nearby group of galaxies about 32 million light- years away and roughly in the direction of the Virgo cluster. Located 50 million light-years away in the Virgo cluster, NGC 4486B possesses a 500-million-solar-mass black hole. It is a small satellite of the very bright galaxy M87 in the Virgo cluster. M87 has an active nucleus and is known to have a black hole of about two billion solar masses. Though several groups have previously found massive black holes dwelling in galaxies the size of our Milky Way or larger, these new results suggest smaller galaxies have lower-mass black holes, below Hubble's detection limit. The survey shows the black hole's mass is proportional to the host galaxy's mass. It remains a challenging puzzle as to why black holes are so abundant, or why they should be proportional to a galaxy's mass. One idea, supported by previous Hubble observations, is that galaxies formed out of smaller "building blocks" consisting of star clusters. A massive "seed" black hole may have been present in each of these protogalaxies. The larger number of building blocks needed to merge and form very luminous galaxies naturally would have provided more seed black holes to coalesce into a single, massive black hole residing in a galaxy's nucleus. An alternative model is that galaxies start at some early epoch with a modest black hole (not necessarily approaching the masses discussed here), but that the black hole consumes some fixed fraction of the total gas shed by the stars in the galaxy during their normal evolution. If that fraction is around one percent, the black holes easily could weigh as much as they do now, and naturally would track the current luminosity of the galaxy. Critical ground-based observations to identify candidates were obtained for all three of these objects by John Kormendy with the Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope (CFHT) on Mauna Kea, Hawaii. The NGC 4486b black hole detection also was based on CFHT spectra. Hubble's high resolution then allowed the team to peer deep into the cores of the galaxies with extraordinary resolution unavailable from ground-based telescopes, and measure velocities of stars orbiting the black hole. A sharp rise in velocity means that a great deal of matter is locked away in the galaxy's core, creating a powerful gravitational field that accelerates nearby stars. The team is confident their statistical search technique has allowed them to pinpoint all the black holes they expect to see, above a certain mass limit. "However, our result is complicated by the fact that the observational data for the galaxies are not of equal quality, and that the galaxies are at different distances," says Richstone. One of the features of the February 1997 servicing mission to the Hubble will be the installation of the Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph. This spectrograph will greatly increase the efficiency of projects, such as this black hole census, that require spectra of several nearby positions in a single object. This group will be continuing this census with the refurbished telescope. The Space Telescope Science Institute is operated by the Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy, Inc. for NASA, under contract with the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD. The Hubble Space Telescope is a project of international cooperation between NASA and the European Space Agency. - end - Image files in GIF and JPEG format and captions may be accessed on the Internet via anonymous ftp from ftp.stsci.edu in /pubinfo. GIF JPEG PRC97-01 Black Hole Galaxies gif/bhgalxs.gif jpeg/bhgalx.jpg Higher resolution digital versions (300 dpi JPEG) of the release photograph are available in /pubinfo/hrtemp: 97-01.jpg (color) and 97-01bw.jpg (black/white). GIF and JPEG images, captions and press release text are available via World Wide Web at: http://www.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/97/01.html and via links in: http://www.stsci.edu/pubinfo/Latest.html or http://www.stsci.edu/pubinfo/Pictures.html.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:58:04 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:21:20 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > Date: 12 Jan 97 00:39:26 EST > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Two Faces of Ufology Dear Theresa, I've chosen to get to the gist of your message... I'm not sure what the rest of it was about. When you want to actually come out and say what you are talking about and who you are referring to then I might be better able to understand. I would like to say that I know of no rules in ufology. > In the case of the message I quoted you from, that is exactly what Bob > Shell did. He heard it from a source and was asking for clarification on it. > If you read it over, you will see that. He asked for clarification, which I > noted you could and did provide, Rebecca. But you also stated he should have > checked before he posted his request?? Considering the source of the message, it angered me. Coming on the heels of others on this list asking similar things of those with a skeptical viewpoint the message really ticked me off. I know he was asking for clarification. But he was doing it in a very public way. One or two phone calls or private emails and Bob could have had the answer to his question. As I mentioned in my message I had already emailed him privately with my response when I received the personal email from him (although I'm sure that message went out to more than just myself). I was surprised to see the very same message then posted to this list. I wonder if he got any other responses and I wonder if he did why he didn't post those too. I have no proof that Four Winds Productions is not in on some gov't conspiracy -- all I shared is what I knew. > I personally would like to see the UFO topic taken more seriously. And > I would like to see credibility and accountability as standards in the field. > But some attitudes and double standards really need to be changed before that > can happen. Oh, I agree. What are your credentials in reference to video analysis? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:57:19 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:07:01 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > Date: 12 Jan 97 00:39:26 EST > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Two Faces of Ufology > Dear Rebecca (and All), [Much rhetoric and posturing SNIPPED] > Instead we find things like a > researcher making claims, but doesn't even know what Record Group of the > National Archives to find documents on the topic being discussed. I am not sure who you are referring to here, but it sounds like you are implying it is me. If you would have bothered to check back into the past records of this mailing list you would known that I posted the appropriate record groups related to the Manhattan Project sometime last year for people to follow up on. BTW, the record groups, for everyone's information, is given on Rhode's "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" on page 791, published over ten years ago in 1986. > (Nothing personal, Ed. I know you only asked me for the references because you > thought I didn't have them. I hope you were pleasantly surprised.) Wrong. I knew you had the references. What I didn't know was whether you had copies of the actual alleged photos. In your previous reply to me you even quoted the real relevant information that I was hoping you would post: "Tell us in context exactly what you found and where?" ****************** That you failed to provide in your response. You never address what this alleged evidence in the archives specifically contained. You circumvented all around it. The closest you came was saying: "I believe items 11 to 14 or 15 are Trinity footage." But you don't know what that footage is. Do you? It is very apparent to me that you don't know anything. I have been well aware of your postings in Compuserve. One statement you made in the MUFON forum there completely appalled me: "Anyhow, the NARA assured me that there is aerial footage of the blast cloud. I don't care to spend the money to get copies of it nor am I interested enought. Just knowing that it was done, and that it was not widely known about, is okay with me." In other words, you have not seen this alleged footage of the blast cloud. You are basing your claim without any verification that can be attributed to real evidence. Nor, do you consider it important in following up to see whether or not what you purport the archivist saying are indeed aerial footage of the blast cloud, or of something else? Like maybe the 28 hours vertical shot taken from the air of the after tests? (also reproduced in Rhode's book published in 1986 next to page 321 as photo 94)and not requiring a trip to the archives to see. The critical questions related to the "cameraman's story" have nothing to do with the after tests, but whether or not he was ever there in the first place during the actual Trinity experiment. Your posturing about this alleged evidence is based on all probability, by your choice of language, on a phone call to the archives and a response that may not even be relevant to how you have interpreted what you purport to be the archivist's response here and on Compuserve. > Credibility is everyones responsibility. We need to be sure that > we actually check before we claim anything as fact and if we aren't sure, > we say so. Really? How interesting! Yet, you apparently are exempt from your duplicity posturing and cat and mouse games attributing motives and perceptions to others based solely on your personal beliefs. If you have actually checked and seen that this alleged footage is of the blast cloud, reproduce it and post here for everyone to see. If not, admit that you don't have a clue as to what you have been posturing about and that your accountability and credibility are traits that you need improvement on. > I personally would like to see the UFO topic taken more > seriously. And I would like to see credibility and accountability as > standards in the > field. But some attitudes and double standards really > need to be changed before that can happen. > Regards, > Theresa How true. Thank you very much for showing us the "Two faces of Ufology". Ed Stewart ps. Where is "jack"? I don't think you know jack! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Carl Sagan From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Jan 97 16:30:36 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:51:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:13:02 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan About Carl Sagan, I did not know him. However I have several friends who are astronomers and others who knew him in other capacities. They have told me that Sagan was a "strange bird", always distant and never really "human". After a nasty divorce, according to these people, Sagan decided to tow the official line since he wanted to make money, lots of money. His pro-UFO stance changed to fit this new quest to become the nation's science guru. Seems to have worked since he made a lot of money after his change of heart. However, according to the same people he would sometimes privately voice opinions totally at odds with his public pronouncements. As far as Jorgen's problem because I won't give him Volker Spielberg's address or phone number, that is my right. When this was given to me, I agreed to keep it strictly confidential, and have done so. I have neither written to nor spoken with Mr. Spielberg. I am promised a meeting with him at some point, and am leaving it up to Ray Santilli and his people to organize that meeting at their convenience. I've got another three years on this project, and am not going to screw things up by trying to speed up the processes. All will come in due time. "Gently, Brother, gently pray" Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 "Processing Reports of Sightings of Space Vehicle From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:07:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:50:20 -0500 Subject: "Processing Reports of Sightings of Space Vehicle Here below I produce the KMI 8610.4, "Processing Reports of Sightings of Space Vehicle Fragments" - date: June 28, 1967. This document provides interesting insight in NASA's role [in part] in handeling UFO reports. JOHN F. KENNEDY SPACE CENTER, NASA MANAGEMENT INSTRUCTION SUBJECT: PROCESSING REPORTS OF SIGHTINGS OF SPACE VEHICLE FRAGMENTS 1. PURPOSE: The purpose of this instruction is to establish procedures for hadling reports of sightings of objects such as fragments or component parts of space vehicles known or alleged by an observer to have impacted upon the earth's surface as a result of safety destruct action. Included ARE REPORTS OF SIGHTINGS OF OBJECTS NOT RELATED TO SPACE VEHICLES. [capitals mine]. APPLICABILITY: This instruction is applicable to all organizational elements of the John F. Kennedy Space Center, NASA (KSC) and to NASA/KSC contractors as expressed in the terms of their contracts. POLICY: It is KSC policy to respond to reported sightings of space vehicle fragments and UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS as promptly as possible. All KSC personnel and activitieswill cooperate to ensure that pertinent information relative to such sightings are received and processed as set forth in this instruction. DEFENITIONS: a. Space Vehicle Fragment: A fragment or component part of a space vehicle that has impacted upon the surface of the earth or washed on a beach conceivably as a result of safety destruct actions, failure in flight, or reentry into the earth's atmosphere. b. UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT: An unidentified object observed in the atmosphere. 5. PROCEDURES FOR HANDLING REPORTS OF SIGHTINGS a. KSC telephone operators will refer all telephone calls coming into the KSC switchboard from persons reporting sightings, as defined herein, to the KSC Scheduling Branch, Test Support Management Office, telephone 867-3013. b. Persons other than telephone operators receiving initial reports of sightings will, if possible, transfer the call to the KSC Scheduling Branch. If the call cannot be transferred, the following information should be obtained from the caller and immediately transmitted to the KSC Scheduling Branc: 1. Name, address, and telephone number of the observer and any other information needed to establish the identity of the observer for possible immediate follow-up contact. 2. Description of the object sighted, i.e., shape, size, color, etc. 3. Location of the object:state, city, etc. NOTE: Under no circiumstances will the origin of the object be discussed with the observer or person making the call. c. The KSC Scheduling Branch in response to a report of a sighting will: 1. Contact military bases nearest the sighting to enlist their aid in determining the validity of the sighting. 2. Contact the KSC Security Office who will in turn contact municipal and state police nearest the sighting to enlist their aid in determining the validity of the sighting. 3. Consult with the Public Information Branch, Public Affairs Office, on reported sightings that may be of public interest. 4. Refer all inquiries from news media to the Public Information Branch. 5. Consult with the Senior Scientist, KSC, on all sightings reported. 6. Call in unidentified flying object reports to the Patrick Air Force Base Command Post, telephone 494-7001. d. All written communications received from persons or activities reporting a sighting will be immediately transmitted to the Senior Scientist, KSC. RESPONSIBILITIES a. Test Support ManagementOffice will be responsible for: 1. Developing and maintaining a capability for receiving, screening, and processing reports of sightings, as defined in paragraph 4, on a 24-hour-day-week basis. 2. Ensuring close liaison with the Senior Scientist, KSC, and the Public Affairs Office on matters pertaining to this Instruction. 3. Coordinating with the Senior Scientist, KSC, as soon as possible after a reported sighting to determine the action to be taken. b. The KSC Scheduling Branch, Test Support Management Office, will be responsible for maintainig a 24-hour-day, 7-day-week capability for receiving, screening, and processing reports of sightings, in accordance with paragraph 5c. c. The Senior Scientist, KSC, will be responsible for: 1. The overall monitoring of the space vehicle fragment sighting program at KSC. 2. Evaluating the screening procedures peformed by the KSC Scheduling Branch. 3. Conducting or initiating and monitoring the scientific investigation of recovered items. 4.Coordinating sightings of space vehicle fragments with launch operations elements who may be interested in fragments of their vehicles for analysis. d. The Communications and Timing Division, Director of Support Operations will be responsible for: 1. Ensuring that KSC telephone operators are properly briefed with regard to their responsibilities as set forth in paragraph 5a. 2. Maintaining a log of reports of sightings. [signed] - Kurt H. Debus Director Distribution "H" From: Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Faster Than Light Travel From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:31:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:46:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Faster Than Light Travel >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 13:44:50 +0000 >From: "Albert G. Baier" <ABAIER@MSM.MEA.COM> >Organization: Mitsubishi Electronics America, Inc Industrial Automation Div. >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: FTL Travel, etc. >Regarding faster than light travel (Greg Sandow, 6 JAN 97). >If you're not familiar with Bob Lazar's claims, please review them. His >claims (which may have been made by others, does anyone know?) are, to >me, the most reasonable-sounding. The idea of a physical body _moving_ >at near light velocities strikes me as ridiculous, as do wormholes, >parallel universes, etc. >I don't subscribe to 'party-line' physics, either. Read "The Einstein >Myth and the Ives Papers", edited by Dean Turner and Richard Hazelett. >This will give you a proper understanding of 'relativity', 'space-time >continuum', and all the other metaphysical nonsense that's passed of as >'science' today. Included, as a bonus, is J.J. Callahan's 1931 _proof_ >of Euclid's parallel postulate, which relegates Minkowski's >metageometry to the hallucination bin. >BTW, I'd rather argue religion with a fundamentalist, than 'physics' >with a 'physicist'. The fundamentalists are more reasonable! >Thanks for listening! > >Al Ha, ha, ha....you bet' cha.....AL. I love that....ha, ha, ha.... BTW, I am very familiar with Lazar's ideas on the subject. Having met and talked with him for a few minutes as well as listening to him answer questions to an audience at the symposium at Rachel, Nev. in May, of 93, I understand exactly what he is saying. Using Gravitational Fileds, generated by the power system of the craft to attatch itself to the distant point or point of destination...drawing that point to our location, by compressing the curved space, much as an accordian compresses the folds of material in its bellows...moving our craft onto that space and then turn off the field allowing space to "snap back," thus achieving our destination without the use of "FLT." BTW, did you know that the human heart generates a magnetic field 5000 times stronger than that of the brain? <g> Is it any wonder those who think with their heart achieve more than those who think with their heads? Ha, ha, ha...well so much for the physicists.... REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 12:22:28 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:47:43 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - >> >I wonder if they ever tried the helmet on a real abductee to get an >> >accurate comparison from someone who knows the real thing? >> I'm willing. >> ~Pat~ >Yes, Pat, you would be the first vict- ... I mean, *volunteer* I would >like to see tested! ;) OK. I'm serious. Persinger can put up or shut up. As I have never seen an alien, but have only had physical experiences and have never allowed hypnosis I think I'd make a great control subject. ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. ... Meeting a Hun face to face is like getting to eat free samples during a tour of the Exlax factory. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://www.sat.net/~pparri/SCRAPS http://pwp.value.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 12:42:20 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:48:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) David Lynn in trying desperately to comprehend the universe unaided said; >Pat, are you defining a meteor crashing into >Mars with the force to send a rock flying to >Earth as "forced migration"? Depends on who or what guided it there for that purpose. You gotta admit that such navigation is only possible either naturally or via NASA or someone really good in Newtonian physics . I tend to think of the universe as a living thing. It could well be that planets and smaller stuff are kinda like a bicarbonate used to sequester the major heartburn from so many super novas. It would naturally follow that God, in His wisdom, would do such a thing. Hale Bopp may be a giant Rolaids. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Alfred's Odd Ode, #75 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 06:34:32 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:54:38 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode, #75 Apology to MW #75 (For January 15, 1997)=20 As regards cocaine mummies, all the trouble they cause=97 All the hew and the wail of a science sans balls . . . Another example of, not science, but scientism, This is the bunch that foments our schism! Hello! Just please glance at the inexplicable wonder . . . But I know what explains your hesitational blunder. Oh, Science; all twisted, you=92re warped, and gone funny-- It=92s who pays your bills. It=92s the ones with the money. And they won=92t front you, or pay you, or keep you in beer. There=92s a *Path* you must stick to, a course you must steer. If the evidence deviates too quick from that *path* , You=92ll feel cold heat, and experience poor wrath. Think cocaine mummies, imbued with tobacco. Where did it come from, and where do the facts go? The *Path* says it=92s nonsense. "It=92s a waste of our time"! Moneyed mainstream goes mimic, and mirrors with mime. . . And what=92s true is forsaken, and lost in blank haze. It=92s the *Path* that=92s responsible! It explains our dumb daze. =20 So if you want the grant money, if you want to live =91right=92 Then fall into line, and forget the _good_ fight. Lehmberg@snowhill.com What would be *bitchin*? . . .Think I=92ll reread some Sitchin. And sail that new sea with an honored Tesla, and even Velikovsky.=20 It=92s not the science =96 it=92s the cowards who pontificate that they practice it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:29:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:58:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:37:08 -0500 > From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life > > Date: 12 Jan 97 13:02:07 EST > > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mendoza's Secret Life > > >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:55:25 -0500 > > >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> > > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mendoza's Secret Life > [snip] > They published Paul Hills excellent scientific analysis of UFOs - > Unconventional Flying Objects. After I read Paul Hills book I asked > this publisher for its catalog, oddly his book seems to be the first of > its kind they published. Its interesting that this publishing house > which publishes mostly new age type books. Unfortunately Paul Hill was apparently forced by pressure from NASA to publish posthumously. Gary, can you give us details. As I have loaned my copy out, I can't check in the text for this pressure from NASA. Please enlighten me. Paul Hill's daughter told me about his research efforts and problems. She kindly gave me a copy of the book she had privately published. She also told me of her problems finding a publisher for her father's book. It wasn't because the book was too scary. It wasn't sensational enough. I don't remember anything about pressure from NASA. > You might also try the publisher(s) of some of Raymond Fowlers books. [....] Jan Aldrich Search for other documents from or mentioning: jan | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels From: watcher@mt.net Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 06:58:59 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:56:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels > From: Glenn Sheper <gscheper@gentech.com> > To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:57:14 -0800 > I would let you know that I have amassed now 1600 links, > mostly to mind/psi/spirit/ufo type of pages, in: > http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/bookmark.htm > But more importantly, I have placed a new page: > Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels > http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/ezekiel.htm > Which starts like this... > ----- > (And as I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, > a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright > light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal > in he midst of the fire. > ----- > Ezekiel had a vision of a specifically twentieth-century object, > an automotive internal combustion engine, which is a rotating > gaseous process, or a whirlwind in the KJV. > The terms cloud, fire, light, and glowing metal above refer to > the pre-ignition gases, the spark, the combustion flame, and the > spark plug, respectively. > ----- > Bon appetit! While you're at it you might want to check out what Ezekiel's wheels really are at the watcher website http://www.MT.net/~watcher/noah.html This passage doesn't refer to UFO craft, but there are many other parts of the Bible that do illuminate the "alien presence" ... check out angels from the planets, and why they are coming back now http://www.MT.net/~watcher/stones.html peace and love
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Comments on Discovery programs From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jan 97 11:05:57 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:57:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on Discovery programs >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:56:03 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >Reply-To: galevy@pipeline.com >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Comments on Discovery programs >Those are the signs of paranoia Bob.< To quote a comic I know: "It's only paranoia if they ain't really after you." Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Morphic Resonance, the philosophy of science and UFOs, Part 3 From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:12:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:53:15 -0500 Subject: Morphic Resonance, the philosophy of science and UFOs, Part 3 Morphic Resonance, the philosophy of science and UFOs, Part 3 Drawing on his research as a cell biologist and plant physiologist, Rupert Sheldrake has articulated a new and controversial hypothesis of biological functioning based on morphic resonance. Sheldrake suggests that all of creation may be viewed as a living organism, rather than as a great machine with God as the great mechanic, and that the so-called "laws of nature" may actually be more like habits and instincts than immutable and inviolable principles. He discusses the implications of his view of morphic fields for an understanding of human consciousness, human experience and the process of evolution. The hypothesis starts from the idea that the development of organisms- for example, the growth of a baby in the womb, or the growth of a tree from a seed- depends on organizing fields, called morphic fields . The organization of behavior- the instincts of a spider, for example- depends on similar morphic fields, rather than just being in the genes. He believes genes are grossly overrated, and that a lot of inheritance depends on the memory which is carried within these organizing fields of an organism. This memory is a kind of cumulative memory, a kind of habit memory, which is built up through a pool of species experience, depending on a process Sheldrake calls morphic resonance. Sheldrake begins developing his theory as a way of addressing the great unsolved problems of biology including the problem of memory itself. "Memory is indeed one of the great unsolved problems. How you or I remember what we did yesterday, or how we remember people's names, of how we recognize people- all the ordinary facts of ordinary, day-to-day memory are profoundly mysterious. It is usually assumed that all these things are stored inside our brains as physical traces of some kind. Now, none of us has ever seen a physical trace inside our brains, and scientists who spent many years looking inside the brains of people, rats and monkeys, have failed to find them too." Wilder Penfield found that he could stimulate memories by putting electrodes on different parts of the brain. But he was never able to get the same memory twice that way. Even if Penfield could evoke memories by stimulating part of the brain, that doesn't prove they are stored there. If we stimulate the tuning knob of our TV set and it tunes onto a different channel, that doesn't prove that all the programs on that other channel are stored inside the bit that we have stimulated, namely the tuning knob. It could be that it is simply part of the receiving or tuning system. Sheldrake believes the brain is like a tuning system, and that we tune into our own memories by a process of morphic resonance, which he believes is a general process that happens throughout the whole of nature. Morphic comes from the Greek work for form, mophe. A morphic field is a field of form, a field or pattern or order or structure. Such fields organize not only the fields of living organisms, but also the forms of crystals and of molecules. Each kind of molecule , each protein for example, has its own kind of morphic field - a hemoglobin field, and insulin field. So does each kind of crystal, each kind of organism, and each kind of instinct of pattern of behavior. These fields are the organizing fields of nature. There are many kinds of them, because there are many kinds of things and patterns in nature. Sheldrake believes our own mental life depends on just this kind of field and through this morphic field theory of organization in nature we can come to a new understanding of the nature of the mind - a field theory of the mind. Sheldrake puts other aspects of human behavior, such as creativity, in a broader natural framework, because creativity in not confined to people. The evolutionary process shows us that the whole of life, over long periods of time. has involved a great creative process- every new species, every new instinct, all new forms of life. And of course there are millions of them that have come into being throughout the course of history on earth. Sheldrake believes that there are two major processes at work. One is the principle of habit, based on morphic fields, through established patterns of activity. The more often they are repeated, the more probable they become. So nature is essentially habit-forming, and all aspects of nature, I think, are based on the priciple of habit. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that what we call the laws of nature are more like the habits of nature. So I think habit is one principle. The habits of animals and plants are what give them their habits of growth and their habits of behavior, or instincts. Now, at the same time there's a principle of creativity, because if things all remained in grooves of habit, nothing would ever change. Sheldrake asserts that right through the whole of nature, and then coming back to ourselves, we see these two principles at work. First there is the principle of habit, whereby things through repetition become more and more probable to happen again, and at the same time more unconscious. Our own habits are largely unconscious, and the great majority of our behavior is determined by these unconscious habits. For example, our speaking English is an unconscious habit. For example, speaking English for an American or Englishman is an unconscious habit. They don't have to form each word, or what each word means. If we're speaking a language we don't know very well, like Telegu, a South Indian Indian language that we may know slightly, we have to think a lot to try and recall the words. It's not habitual; we're not fluent. So habit underlies a lot of our activity, but at the same time there is an openness to the new, which is where creativity comes in. Creativity essentially involves the appearance of new patterns, new forms, new structures- what Shelldrake calls new morphic fields. For example, at one time there were no reports of ET abductions; now there are numerous reports of them in the world. At some stage somebody conceptualized the idea of an ET abduction. For the first time there was an idea that someone had been "abducted" by ET beings . For the first time somebody reported being abducted. Before that, there hadn't been an idea of alien abduction; and now that because so many people have that idea and have become habituated to the idea, it is easier for for anybody else to have the idea that they also have had similar experiences, on average, by morhic resonance from this habituated perception or activity. In other words, there is now mophic fields for ET encounters and ET abductions, and it must embrace the whole planet in a way that didn't exists at one time. A hundred years ago, or certainly two hundred years ago, this idea of "abduction" hadn't even been dreamed of, and now it's everywhere. At a certain stage there was a creative step- when the first abduction experience was reported, the first report invesitgated -and the whole of this came into being. So there is an example of what started as a creative step which then becomes a kind of habit. When people experience ET contact, they are uasually not thinking how they are abducted or what is actually occuring or what stages of conscious activity they pass through, the full range of physiological activity their bodies undergo, it is somewhat like riding a bicycle; it just happens automatically. The experience begins to flow. What of the physiological symptoms and marks reported by abductees? Consider all of the behavior associated with an "abduction" encounter as a part of the morphic field. When I considered that I might also have been abducted, all the marks appeared. When I determined that I was not being abducted, but that I was a willing participant, the markings stopped. When I determined that I could "control" the experience by agreeing to participate or pass on the opportunity, I reached a new level of experience again. This suggests that there is something very mindlike underlying all of biology and all of physics. The question is to find out how mindlike it is. If we could begin to work out in just what way it was mindlike, we might come to a better understanding of our own minds and the way they are related to our body or perhaps how our body is related to the mind. Right now nobody has the faintest idea how the mind is realated to the body. Descartes in the seventeenth century thought that it interacted with the brain in the pineal gland. All that has happened in the three hundred years since then is that the mind has moved a couple of inches to the cerebral cortex, and most people now think the mind is associated in some way with the cerebral cortex. Some people would say it doesn't do anything; it is just a kind of phosphoressence around the nerve endings. Others would say it interacts with the cerbral cortex, but they could not say how. Some would say maybe it does it by interfering with quantum processes in the brain. Sheldrake believes that we ought to consider these mental processes as morphic fields; they are organizing structures or patterns which organize brain activity; and such fields also organize the development of embryos, the development of our bodies, in the first place. They are at work throughout the whole of nature. That which is mindlike in nature becomes easier to relate to our own minds. And the important part, or most of it, is more like our unconscious minds than our conscious ones. It would be a mistake to say that the whole of nature is consciousness, because the whole of our own activity isn't conscious. The vast majority of our behavior is not. Or perhaps we need to redefine the meaning of consciousness. One of the stimulating things that Sheldrakes theory has done is to reopen the issue of the inheritance of aquired characteristics, which was a taboo topic until recently. It seems as if Sheldrake's theory would also reopen the notion of magic - that by concentrating on a certain mental image, one can create that; it can become real. Even modern traditions like the power of positive thinking work along these lines, and it would seem to be consistent with your notion of morphic fields. Morphic resonance, the influence of like upon like, works across space and time, and in that sense is is like magic, according to Sheldrake. But for the last three hundred years, physics and sciencs in general have been domesticating magic, and what was magic yesterday becomes science today. For example, Newton's idea of gravitation and attraction - that every particle of matter affects every other particle of matter in the universe, through empty space - is a kind of magic. Action at a distance. And yet it is the very basis of mechanistic science. Before Newton, the only people who had suggested the influence of distant planets on the earth were astrologers. Newton was rather embarassed by this. He saw it as a big unsolved problem in his own theory. Indeed no one really solved it until Einstein came along much later and said it's not action at a distance through empty space, it's action at a distance through fields - gravitational fields. And so fields have now become the medium of interconnection at a distance - the medium of magic, as it were. Nowhere is that more clearly seen than in television. Two hundred years ago it would have been pure magic that people could have seen us on a television screen, far away from where we are talking. This is the kind of thing that's talked about in the ancient books of the Hindus - the idea of seeing things at a distance. And yet today, we don't even think twice about it in the context of TV. Yet we wrestle with the idea of remote viewing without TV. Is it real or is it memorex? Perhaps reality is more memorex than we've acknowledged. For me, a key to morphic resonance has been in vivid dreams and related states of consciousness where there has been some "external" validation of these experiences. Next: part four provides more anecdotal evidence and validation.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 2 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:16:18 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:22:44 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 2 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 2 January 12, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor GREEN FIREBALL SEEN IN CENTRAL ITALY At about 6:15 p.m. on Monday, January 6, 1997, a dazzling green fireball crossed Italy's Adriatic coast north of Foggia, heading west. The glowing object crossed the Appenine Mountains, passing north of Campobasso and Isernia, and flew over Rome at approximately 6:22 p.m. The fireball lit up the sky. Thousands saw it, including the air traffic controllers at Rome's Leonardo da Vinci International Airport. Captain Giovanni Fior del Mondo, pilot of the Alitalia flight from Madrid, Spain, was making his final approach into Da Vinci when he spotted the fireball. He described it as "a bright green light" which he kept in view for five seconds. Italian radio station RAI-1 reported, "Several hundred witnesses saw a large, brightly-lit object over Rome which abruptly disappeared." According to the Italian newsletter UFOTEL, people north of Rome saw "a luminous body...a green globe followed by a glowing trail." According to the newspaper Il Messagero, a man driving on the highway to Civitavecchia saw the object pass overhead, as well. Tour operators at Practica da Mare, north of Rome, said the fireball made a slight leftward turn before plunging into the sea near Fregene, a resort town. The Carabineri (Italian police) reportedly sealed off a national forest near Fregene and began searching the woods for "a downed UFO." An Italian astronomer in Bologna said the object was "a meteor" and claimed to have heard "loud rumbling noises." From the time delay, he estimated that the fireball was "tens of kilometers" overhead. The RAI-1 announcer said, "But we prefer to think it was the Befana leaving after delivering her gifts." In Italian folklore, Befana is a witch who brings gifts to children's homes on January 6, the Feast of the Epiphany. This was Italy's second UFO sighting in a week. The night of Wednesday, January 1, people in Cosenza reported a bright UFO hovering overhead. (See the newspapers Il Messagero, Il Tempo, Il Resto del Carlino, Corriero della Sera and Corriero Adriatico for January 7, 1997. Also, a big "Grazie!" to Edoardo Russo and his fellow members of Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici (CISU), Renzo Cabassi, Angelo Ferlicca, Simone Grandicelli, Paolo Toselli and Ermenegildo Persone for this story.) (Editor's Comment: Belfana got her start as a goddess in the religion of the lost empire of the Etruscans. By some strange coincidence, the fireball plunged into the sea not far from Tarquinia, the ancient capital of the Etruscans.) UFOs ROAM AT WILL OVER COSTA RICA For the past two weeks the Central American country of Costa Rica has been visited nightly by unidentified flying objects, usually described as grayish-white or silvery discs. The flap began on Sunday night, December 22, 1996, with a report of UFOs over the cities of San Isidro, in the Cordillera de Talamanca, and Quepos, on the Pacific coast. During succeeding nights, air traffic controllers in the tower at Jose Santamaria International Airport, located just outside San Jose, the nation's capital, reported radar contacts with "objects that cannot be identified." The UFOs were tracked by radar over the cities of Ciudad Colon, Santiago de Puriscal, Parrita, Esterillos and, repeatedly, Quepos. A radar operator told the newspaper La Nacion that "some of the objects move at an unimaginable velocity, others more slowly." Thursday night, December 26, 1996, Jorge Arturo Melendez Mora, a pilot with 26 years' experience, was flying over the cordillera in his twin-engine Piper Aztec when he spotted "three OVNIs (Spanish acronym for UFO)" alongside his plane "reflecting the moonlight." Melendez Mora said the UFOs "were the size of a Boeing (jetliner), doing things the best of pilots could not do." He kept them in sight for 40 minutes. Friday night, December 27, another pilot notified the tower at Jose Santamaria of "luminous lights" performing aerobatic maneuvers over Ciudad Colon. On Sunday, January 5, 1997 at 3:15 p.m., people reported a "platillo volador" (flying plate) heading for San Isidro. Guillermo Vega Gurzon of Costa Rica's Instituto Meteorologico Nacional dismissed the reports, adding that "electrical charges" might be responsible for the sightings on radar. (See La Nacion of San Jose, Costa Rica for January 4, 1997. Muchas gracias to Enrique Mora for posting the original report in Spanish.) GLOWING CYLINDER SEEN OVER MEXICO Wednesday evening, January 1, 1997, twelve farm workers were stunned to see a very large UFO, which they described as "a cylinder shape of an orange color" hovering over a sugar cane field near San Cristobal, in the state of Chiapas in southern Mexico. The group watched the glowing UFO for several minutes before it zipped away to the east, heading for the Rio Usumacinta, the border with Guatemala. (Muchas gracias to Sergio Sanchez Flores for this story.) (Editor's Note: The Mayan ruins of Yaxchilan are on the Rio Usumacinta.) UFOs A NO-SHOW IN ISRAEL Thousands of Israelis thronged the beaches of Tel Aviv on Monday, January 5, 1997, awaiting the promised arrival of three large circular UFOs. But the saucers failed to show. The prediction was made the previous week during the nationwide controversy over the discovery of a supposed dead alien 5 centimeters long by Mrs. Zyona Damti at Kibbutz Achihod in northern Israel. Israeli psychic Helinor Harrar said she had a vision in which three huge flying saucers approached Tel Aviv from the sea on January 5. She said, "Israel will be the site of UFO landings." Many Israelis took the prediction seriously because in 1995 Ms. Harrar accurately predicted the upset election victory of Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. As a result, Israelis began arriving by the hundreds at the beach Monday morning. A holiday atmosphere prevailed as spectators wandered the beach and loudspeakers mounted on trucks played the theme from "The X-Files." After sunset, there was some excitement when someone spotted a bright light in the western sky. But it turned out to be a jetliner making its final approach into Tel Aviv's David Ben-Gurion Airport. By midnight, the UFOs had not arrived, and the smaller beach crowd dispersed. Unfazed by the no-show, Ms. Harrar told Israeli TV Channel One that the UFO occupants had changed their landing date to February 14. She also predicted, "Until they (the UFOs) fly over Hebron, there will be no (peace) agreement." (Many thanks to Tom Morrison for this story.) FOUR TRIANGULAR UFOs SEEN IN CALIFORNIA Saturday evening, January 4, 1997, at 7:25 p.m., Daniel J. Kerrigan and a friend were driving in Dan's pickup truck on Santiago Canyon Road in rural Orange County, California near the small town of Silverado Canyon when he spotted a strange light in the sky. "Crossing the bridge over Santiago Wash (gully), I noticed a very strange dim bluish green light with purple overtones just crossing over Santiago Canyon Road heading south," Dan said. "At first I thought it was a very bright meteor traveling above the clouds, but then I saw that they were actually 'three' lights set in a triangular pattern (all were of the same color) at the corners of what appeared to be a triangular shaped object." "Just after discerning the shape of the object, we noticed that there were three separate objects, and all three were traveling together. They all appeared to be the same size and shape with the same set of weird lights. We saw no other lights on the objects other than those strange alien blue-green-purple lights." "We turned left onto Silverado Canyon Road to get out of the traffic and sat in the middle of the road near a K-railed turnoff, watching the objects rise and gain speed for a few seconds. Then (we) started to pull over to get a better look when we noticed another one coming towards us from straight ahead. It had the same strange dim blue-green-purple lights, but it was almost directly over us. It was in the clouds about 300 feet (90 meters) above us, so I did not see the triangular shape...but the color and intensity of the light was the same. The object appeared to be following Silverado Canyon Road." Leaving work earlier, Dan had had "a really nasty headache," but, as he watched the strange lights, his headache suddenly dissipated. As he pulled over to the side of the road, Dan and his friend were startled to see "two huge dual-rotor military choppers" rising from a nearby gulch. He said U.S. Marine Corps training flights are common in the Silverado Canyon area, but this pair looked a bit unusual. One chopper had the standard running lights while "the other one was totally blacked out, as far as we could tell. The first three objects continued to recede toward the south, with the fourth one right behind them. The two military choppers seemed to pursue them." (Unsolicited Email) (Editor's Note: From Dan's description, the choppers sound like Boeing Vertol CH-46D Sea Knights.) FOUR SAUCERS SPOTTED IN SOUTHERN MAINE Saturday afternoon, January 4, 1996, Michael D. was at the general store in North Yarmouth, Maine (population 800) when an elderly man rushed in, very excited. He told Mike and the storekeeper that he had "just seen four white disks moving in and out of clouds" over nearby Bradbury Mountain. The store clerk said he would call the Brunswick Naval Air Station in Bath, Maine and try to find out what was going on. Five minutes later, as he was driving home on Maine Highway 202, Mike heard a UFO report on the radio. The announcer for station WBLM said four white discs had just been sighted over Reid State Park, across the bay near Phippsburg, Maine. Phippsburg is on a small peninsula six miles (9 kilometers) south of Bath. North Yarmouth is 20 miles (32 kilometers) east of Bath. (Email Interview) SEARCH ENDS FOR MISSING LEAR JET On Monday, January 6, 1997, New Hampshire ended its two-week search for the Lear jet that vanished over the upper Connecticut River valley at 10 a.m. on December 24, 1996. James Rivers, a spokesman for the governor's office, told the AP, "No one likes to give up hope, but the likelihood of these men being alive is...not there." Still missing are Johan Schwartz, 31, of Westport, Connecticut and Patrick Hayes, 30, of Clinton, Connecticut. Schwartz and Hayes left Connecticut the morning of December 24 to fly to Lebanon, New Hampshire to pick up a family and take them to Long Island for Christmas. Rain and fog that morning hampered visibility, forcing the men to miss their first approach and to circle the small municipal airport. According to Capt. Frank Leith, their Lear jet disappeared from Lebanon's radar screen at 10 a.m. when they were about 10 miles (16 kilometers) northeast of Lebanon's outer marker, getting ready to try another landing attempt. "They were doing the approach properly at the correct altitude of 4,300 feet," Leith said. At first searchers believed the plane had crashed on Moose Mountain, but a search of that area yielded no trace of the plane. Using three National Guard helicopters and radar-equipped search planes of the U.S. Air Force, the search extended to a radius of 30 miles from the Lebanon airport, encompassing the hills and valleys around Rumney, Warren, Lincoln and the Waterville Valley, plus the slopes of Mount Moosilauke. There was no sign of either the two missing men or wreckage from the Lear jet. (See the Valley News of Lebanon, N.H. for January 8, 1997) An equally puzzling disappearance occurred in the upper Midwest last week. On Tuesday, January 7, 1997, a Minnesota Air National Guard F-16 took off from Duluth on a training flight along Lake Superior's north shore. Midway through the flight, the jet interceptor disappeared from radar screens at Duluth and at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport. On Thursday, January 9, searchers found the wrecked F-16 on the eastern edge of Greenwood Lake, 30 miles (48 kilometers) north of Two Harbors, Minnesota, in the wild Superior National Forest. There was no sign of the pilot anywhere near the crash site. (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for January 10, 1997) (Editor's Note: The pilot's disappearance is truly odd. A cardinal rule of the U.S. Air Force is, stay near your downed aircraft.) UFOs INVADE TALK RADIO At 9:30 p.m., on Sunday, January 26, 1997, a new talk show devoted exclusively to UFOs premieres on radio station WPLR 99-FM ROCK in New Haven, Connecticut. The live talk show will be hosted by longtime UFO enthusiasts Kenneth Lloyd and Bob Tallard. Mr. Lloyd has produced many TV talk shows on the UFO phenomenon since 1991 and his guests include Dr. Stanton T. Friedman and Budd Hopkins. The new talk show,"Cosmic Connection," will feature live chat and phone calls, in-depth interviews, the latest UFO news and music from alien and space-theme movies. (Editor's Comment: Readers, call your local FM radio station and ask if they'd like to carry the "Cosmic Connection." If so, they can reach Kenneth Lloyd at this email address: alcyone@ct1.nai.net) UFO WEBSITES FOR YOU TO VISIT Speaking of Dr. Friedman, the distinguished dean of UFO researchers and author of TOP SECRET/MAJIC and CRASH AT CORONA has a newly revamped Website. Check it out at http://www.ufori.com Australian UFO Research (AUFOR) has a great site with some articles on recent UFO encounters in central Queensland. You can reach AUFOR's site at this address: http://www.networx.com.au/home/slider For an update on UFOs in Britain, try Andrea J. Pickles's new Website at http://members.tripod.com/~andreajp/ David H. Norris has the UFO scene covered in North Carolina. Dave's Website can be found at http://www.concordnc.com/dnorris/ For an update on Comet Hale-Bopp, check out http://www.bulletin-ol.com/UFO And, of course, not to be missed is our parent site, UFO INFO, which you can reach at this site-- http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm. You can reach UFO ROUNDUP at that site, or else read old issues of our newsletter at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts That's it for this week. We'll be back next Sunday with more news from "the paper that covers the saucers--UFO ROUNDUP." See you then!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jan 97 14:57:49 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:56:19 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:58:04 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Two Faces of Ufology I'm sorry that I angered Rebecca by asking for clarification in public forums instead of doing it privately. Call me lazy, but I have found the best way to find out QUICKLY about something is to post a query on these forums. I find out in no time at all what I need to know, and it is cheaper and faster than a bunch of long distance phone calls. For the record, a couple of people have said the allegations that Four Winds Productions are a US Govt front are ridiculous, but no one has provided any details other than saying that they have their office in England. I was told that the program dealing with the alien autopsy film was originated in WETA studios in DC, part of govt controlled Public Television. I'm now awaiting a video of the program someone promised to send, and will look in the credits to see if it says where it originated. (Note to Rebecca: You say "Considering the source of the message, it angered me." Why should a message from me specifically anger you? Do I make you mad merely by existing? I thought we were well past that stage in our relationship. I accept you for who and what you are, and thought you had decided to extend the same courtesy to me. You are a good researcher, and I'd like to be on good terms with you.) Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:36:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:54:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in > Date: 12 Jan 97 15:37:18 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Gordon Cooper > Thanks to Glenn Campbell for posting the information about Gordon Cooper's > interview with National Enquirer. > I'd like to point out that this information is not new, and > this interview, in spite of their claims, is not exclusive. Nope! ;-) > Back in 1995 Mike Hesemann showed me his video interview with > Gordon Cooper in which everything in this article was covered in > detail, and more. I haven't seen that video, but have seen segments that were to go into a show that was then only in the production stage. This was supposedly shot sometime in 1994 and was shown to myself and a colleague by a lady named Jacque Dunne. She was the party doing the interview in the segments. Within the interview he talked in general about UFOs that the astronauts had seen as well as those he had witnessed. He also talked about a meeting that had taken place on an Air Force Base somewhere. (I can't recall where exactly, but it may have been here in New Mexico) He also spoke about a mysterious individual that exited a craft during a second witnessed landing that desired to become a U.S. citizen for a time. I recall that it was stated that the individual (who appeared passably as human) was precluded at the time by the then existent gold standard from bringing in gold to personally finance himself. Therefore, he brought in ingots of platinum. I remember that this one tale really surprised me. Jacque herself is a bit of a mystery. She describes herself as being Irish (Republic) born and bred, but speaks with an upper crust British accent. She always seemed to be in pre-production on one project or another with her then partner Russ somebody (can't recall his last name), but never seemed to finish production on anything. I found it odd that during our meetings which usually took place at restaurants, she always picked up the tab and always paid in cash never requesting a receipt. > Whether people choose to believe Cooper or not, interviews > should not be misrepresented as "first" or "exclusive" when > neither applies. Absolutely, but interesting none the less. Clark Hathaway
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Mars Rock??? From: "William Sawyers" <wsawers@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:05:59 +1300 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:57:41 -0500 Subject: Mars Rock??? In the interests of free info. Check out the Photo comparasons regarding the following on.. http://www.riskers.org/ and follow the Link. I have edited out the the biologists name as we have been requested not to contact him by email at the moment?? This will be forthcoming. (I am a little behind on mail so this chaps name may already be common knowledge??). William Sawers ------- Dear members of Riskers: I am both new to this list and new to the internet and relatively new to wide computer use. I am a biologist living in Las Vegas, Nevada, U.S.A., working in the private sector, and am in need of assistance. This is the reason for my subscription to this mailing list. I have come upon a series of stunning likenesses between two separate photographs. I was asked to look into the photographs by a friend of mine, Robert Charles. For purposes of reference, the two photographs being compared were: (#1) The 1996 NASA photograph of what appeared as a multi-segmented microfossil - photo appearing in the August 19, 1996 issue of "Time" magazine, and (#2) a 1972 photograph, of a multi-segmented microfossil, appearing in the 1992 text, "The Proterozoic Biosphere," edited by Schopf/Klein, page 1093, plate 32F. The specimen in Photo#1 was claimed to have been removed from the meteorite, stated to have been located, in 1984, in Antarctica. The specimen in Photo#2 was stated to have been located in Northern Australia, not from a meteorite (terrestrial). Specimen#1 is claimed to be much older and smaller than Specimen#2. When sat side-by-side and compared at like size, not only do the overall "cell" features of the so-called fossils correspond, several "finger-print" areas also do, with geometry and orientation to each other that appear to be "too close for comfort." NASA has been contacted: they basically say that the likeness is a coincidence. The media says that NASA would never lie about such an important discovery, and would opt to take the "word" of NASA. Academia won't touch this, with a publication: the political power of NASA. I am not saying that NASA is perpetrating a hoax, but what I am saying is that anyone who has looked at these photographs has judged them to be one and the same specimen, with Specimen #1 being photographed first, cleaned and cut, then Photo#2 being taken. While #1 and #2 appear oriented differently for photography, the closeness is something strange. Either we're maybe portending a "universal" type of evolution, or something is amiss. I hope it's the former. I need help in getting this message out, so that others will be able to look at the photos. I'll send them to anyone, or for purposes of your maintenance of evidence integrity: look up the photos yourself, either way you'll see what you see. This one doesn't take a scientist. As a bit of another twist, the photographer of Specimen #2 is J. Wm. Schopf (UCLA Paleobiologist) who sat on the historic August 1996 NASA panel announcing the discovery, and acting as a critic. Can someone please assist with a direction, or a place to "post" the photos, or just to look at them? This is a very large monkey, that I not only wish off my back, but also to be viewed for what it is. Either way, there goes my career (or future career). I was trained to question. I still believe in the truth. I still believe in humanity, its future presence on Mars and amongst the stars. I believe, however, that we should travel there upon the building blocks of the truth. If the likenesses are not confirmed or found present due to a facet of evolution, I'll rest easier and teach children about the remnants of the wonderful little organisms found on Mars. If the likenesses are found to be something else, then truth was restored to one corner of science. Please assist. XXXXXXXXXXXX or..... XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXX Robert Charles- will make contact, should someone request. I (XXX) am referenced in the newest editions of Marquis' Who's Who in Science and Engineering, in the West, and in the World. I am referenced in older editions as XXXXXXXXXXXXX (I changed my last name to match that of my beautiful adopted daughter's name).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Carl Sagan From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jan 97 15:29:08 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:03:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@compuserve.com> To: UFO Updates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: 14 Jan 97 16:30:36 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > I've got another three years on this project, and am not >going to screw things up by trying to speed up the processes. All will come in >due time. Gee, Bob, there's a five year plan? Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Carl Sagan From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:13:50 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:00:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: 14 Jan 97 16:30:36 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:13:02 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >About Carl Sagan, I did not know him. However I have several friends who are >astronomers and others who knew him in other capacities. They have told >me that Sagan was a "strange bird", always distant and never really "human". >After a nasty divorce, according to these people, Sagan decided to tow the >official line since he wanted to make money, lots of money. His pro-UFO >stance changed to fit this new quest to become the nation's science guru. >Seems to have worked since he made a lot of money after his change of heart. >However, according to the same people he would sometimes privately voice >opinions totally at odds with his public pronouncements. >As far as Jorgen's problem because I won't give him Volker Spielberg's >address or phone number, that is my right. When this was given to me, I >agreed to keep it strictly confidential, and have done so. I have neither >written to nor spoken with Mr. Spielberg. I am promised a meeting with him >at some point, and am leaving it up to Ray Santilli and his people to >organize that meeting at their convenience. I've got another three years on >this project, and am not going to screw things up by trying to speed up the >processes. All will come in due time. >"Gently, Brother, gently pray" >Bob Don't worry Bob. I got Spielbergs adress, financial background - the lot. And isn't it A BIT LATE to start checking up on him now? That is what you should have done in the first place... Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Carl Sagan From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:16:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:02:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: 14 Jan 97 16:30:36 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >As far as Jorgen's problem because I won't give him Volker Spielberg's >address or phone number, that is my right. When this was given to me, >I agreed to keep it strictly confidential, and have done so. I have >neither written to nor spoken with Mr. Spielberg. I am promised a >meeting with him at some point, and am leaving it up to Ray Santilli >and his people to organize that meeting at their convenience. I've got >another three years on this project, and am not going to screw things up >by trying to speed up the processes. All will come in due time. >"Gently, Brother, gently pray" >Bob Hi again Bob. What do you mean by: "I've got another three years on this project, and am not going to screw things up by trying to speed up the processes. All will come in due time." Please explain! Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:27:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:59:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in >Date: 12 Jan 97 15:37:18 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Gordon Cooper >Thanks to Glenn Campbell for posting the information about Gordon Cooper's >interview with National Enquirer. >I'd like to point out that this information is not new, and this interview, in >spite of their claims, is not exclusive. >Back in 1995 Mike Hesemann showed me his video interview with Gordon Cooper in >which everything in this article was covered in detail, and more. >Whether people choose to believe Cooper or not, interviews should not be >misrepresented as "first" or "exclusive" when neither applies. >Personally, I think Cooper is telling the truth about his UFO encounters, but >his comments about the coverup are hearsay and speculation, just like most >others. >I hear we now have to backdate things again, since Dr. Wolf says the first UFO >crash and recovery was in 1941. This makes the coverup a bit older. No >surprise to me, since the son of a man who was in charge of pilot training at >Roswell in the early 40s told me that things were already going on there as >early as 1943, when his father was first posted there, and there was the >downing of a Mustang by a UFO in 1945 at Roswell. I think this whole thing >is older than 50 years, by a WHOLE lot of years. >Bob Bob who is this Dr. Wolf you are referring to? What is his first name and where does he live? More info desired, please. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 NASA Solicits Studies of New Earth-Imaging Radar From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:04:34 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:53:17 -0500 Subject: NASA Solicits Studies of New Earth-Imaging Radar Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC January 15, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Mary Hardin Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 97-10 NASA SOLICITS STUDIES OF NEW EARTH-IMAGING RADAR SATELLITE NASA is seeking proposals from industry for design and definition studies of LightSAR, a proposed new Earth-imaging satellite that would use advanced technologies to reduce the cost and enhance the quality of radar-based information for scientific research, commercial remote-sensing and emergency management applications. The agency expects to award up to five LightSAR study contracts worth approximately $700,000 each, with selection scheduled for March 1997 and final reports due in November 1997. "Our request for proposals is aimed at exploring innovative approaches to government and industry teaming," said Dr. Steven Bard, LightSAR pre-project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. "The results of these studies are expected to enable industry to maximize the private sector investment in LightSAR. The proposers are required to share in the cost of implementing this mission, beginning with these studies." "The results of these studies, especially as related to indications of proposed teaming and cost-sharing arrangements for the follow-on phases, will help establish an appropriate implementation approach, should NASA decide to proceed further with a LightSAR mission," said William Townsend, Acting Associate Administrator for NASA's Office of Mission to Planet Earth. LightSAR's synthetic aperture radar measurements would provide high-resolution images on a nearly continuous basis, giving the project considerable capability to map changes in land cover, generate topographic maps and provide long-term mapping of natural hazards. "For example, if LightSAR were operating now, we'd be able to get one image a day of the Pacific Northwest and Northern California. Since radar can penetrate clouds, this would provide emergency management agencies with a picture of the changing flood conditions over a large area, even while the storm is still happening," said Dr. Tony Freeman, LightSAR instrument manager at JPL. Companies selected to work on LightSAR will be asked to study business and teaming approaches, prepare a market analysis, develop applications, define technical approaches and identify potential industry cost-sharing for carrying out follow-on development activities. "We are looking forward to working with industry to define this mission and determine their needs," Freeman said. JPL is managing the pre-project development of the LightSAR mission for NASA's Office of Mission to Planet Earth (MTPE), Washington, DC, which leads a long-term, coordinated research enterprise designed to study the Earth as a global environmental system. The goal of MTPE is to develop a better scientific understanding of natural environmental changes and to distinguish between natural and human-made changes and impacts. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: The Rockefeller Report 1/2 From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:44:58 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:04:36 -0500 Subject: Re: The Rockefeller Report 1/2 >> I believe the devious Philip Mantle asked for this file. I suspect >> he needs it for his research for an upcoming magazine (UFO 2000?!?!). >> I would have a quick think about where the money cames from? Please pick >> an answer: >> * Lottery Fund >> * Autopsy Film Money >> * His hard earned savings >> Please give me your views >[BIG snip] >I don't know who Ian Read is but like most he's way off the mark. >My inteest in the 'Rockefeller Report' is purely out of interest >on a UFO documentary series I am consulting on. >Philip Mantle. Philip, You should remember me. A few years back when you where setting up the BPL I donated a small collection of slides. There was a Gulf Breeze one, a Roswell one etc. We exchanged a number of interesting letters. I was also in contact with Alex Clark for sometime. I believe you where very friendly with him until you learned he was only about 20. He was your "bouncers" at the infamous 1995 conference. I believe "bouncers" is the way you described them to Graham Birdsall. I can not remember you putting yourself out for anyone in Ufology. Ken Phillips and quality UFO researchers are in a different league to your lot, they are after hard scientific evidence, not addresses and emails. BTW I would like my slides back for research purposes. ______ /__ __\ - Ian Read \\_\/_// - UFON UK/NUFOS Board Director \ .. / - Email - i.read@netcom.co.uk \ / - UFO Discovery - http://people.netcom.co.uk/i.read/ \/ - Newsgroup - alt.binaries.ufo.files
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Comments on Discovery programs From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 07:52:58 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:06:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on Discovery programs Hi Gary... >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:56:03 -0500 >From: Gary <galevy@pipeline.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Comments on Discovery programs >> Date: 10 Jan 97 18:19:02 EST >> From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> Subject: Comments on Discovery programs > [snipped] > People have called me paranoid for saying that Kodak may not have > been dealing with me in good faith. I have suggested that Kodak has > close ties to the US military and US govt. (Gee, Bob. I'd hope that Kodak had close ties to the U.S. gov't. You'd hate to think they were entrusting Top Secret film of nuclear testing to some mail-order processing outfit they found in the back of _The Saturday Evening Post_. The question is whether these alleged "ties" would cause them to deal with you in "bad faith".) > Read with sarcasm: Ditto. > Yes Bob you must really be paranoid to think that Kodak would > have such close ties. Where else would the U.S. gov't have gone to find someone to handle their photographic requirements? Germany? True, they had an impressive photographic and film manufacturing industry dating back to the earliest days of still and motion-picture photography. But would you really send film of, say, the Trinity nuclear test to Agfa's Dusseldorf branch for processing - in May of 1945? Kodak would have been the logical choice to handle this sort of work. > And lets just ignore information from open sources We know this from "open sources"? In UFOlogical terms this makes it immediately suspect. Everyone knows that the only worthwhile information in UFOlogy comes from unnamed, former, alleged, current, friend-of-a-friend, next-door-neighbour of some real or imagined military or intelligence operative. If it's written down in black and white, it's probably disinfo. > that Kodak developed the CCD megapixel arrays used in our > surveillance satellites, or that Kodak developed the film and > optics used in reconnaisance planes Kodak did all that? Boy, they must know their stuff. Makes you think that maybe they've been around cameras and film for like 100 years or something. With credentials like that they're the obvious choice to test the Santilli film. > - gee, I didn't see that information on display in a > public exhibition. Those are the signs of paranoia Bob. Definitely. (Oh, wait a sec, was that last bit meant to be read with sarcasm as well?) The fact that nobody is publicly displaying the innards of Keyhole spysats or camera packs from recon aircraft might have something to do with that silly old "classified" thingy. Kind of like when you can wander through Air Force bases during open days. They might let you touch the planes and kick the tyres, but they get a little peeved if you try pulling the guts out of the instrument panels or start poking around inside the seeker heads of missiles. That stuff is "classified" too. It's also proprietary. (Heck, you wouldn't want hordes of backyard manufacturers stealing the designs and turning out AIMs and AMRAAMs for $20.00 a piece, would you?) All this rhubarb about Kodak not being the "right" people to test the Santilli film is just another convenient delay to permit the further marketing of the "autopsy" footage. Let Kodak test a piece of film with the "entity" on it and take those results with all the data intact to another film lab. Test another piece and compare the results. If there are discrepancies and Kodak's analysis seems suspect, feel free to jump up and down and accuse them of dishonesty _then_. Right now it seems that any excuse is good enough for not testing the film, even if it means inventing yet another conspiracy. - John "Back Into The Darkroom To See What Develops" -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------* Search for other documents from or mentioning: legion | galevy |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:03:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:07:26 -0500 Subject: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels At 08:31 AM 1/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >From: Glenn Sheper <gscheper@gentech.com> >To: "'UFO UpDates - Toronto'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:57:14 -0800 > >I would let you know that I have amassed now 1600 links, >mostly to mind/psi/spirit/ufo type of pages, in: > >http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/bookmark.htm > >But more importantly, I have placed a new page: >Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels > >http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/ezekiel.htm > >Which starts like this... >----- >(And as I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, >a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright >light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal >in he midst of the fire. >----- >Ezekiel had a vision of a specifically twentieth-century object, >an automotive internal combustion engine, which is a rotating >gaseous process, or a whirlwind in the KJV. >The terms cloud, fire, light, and glowing metal above refer to >the pre-ignition gases, the spark, the combustion flame, and the >spark plug, respectively. >----- >Bon appetit! > >gscheper@gentech.com Glenn Scheper's Home Page: >http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/home.htm The above is sheer speculation. I have read the above account in Ezekiel and have known about it for about 25 years. Of course, I didn't read from modern New Translations. The word "storm" was typically quoted as "whirlwind" in the KJ version from which I read. "A fire enfolding itself," does suggest that it was self contained, and enfolding means to fold back inwards. Not as some might suggest a rocket blast which would project outward from the object. To me, it suggest a modern UFO sighting. To go on with the quotation "a brightness about it;" suggest an object with a "glowing field effect" surrounding it, or "enfolding" the object. "It had the appearance as it were of a wheel within a wheel." What makes it appear to me that the above interpretation is taking to suggest it may be a rocket engine with gases glowing is the rest of the sentence: "and out of the midst there of as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire." This is where I am speculating that the author is thinking the object is a rocket engine. However, I don't agree. The color, modern spelling, amber is reddish-orange, or the color of a glowing coal or coals. While fire itself may be filled with reds, yellows and blues. Well, there you have my opinion....and that's all it is. I don't claim to have inside knowledge. <g> I won't even go into the "creatures" in the object. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 'Alien Autopsy' - Some Questions and Answers From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:03:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:35:20 -0500 Subject: 'Alien Autopsy' - Some Questions and Answers An updated version of what was previously the "Alien Autopsy FAQ" document, is now available from URL: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/aa_faq.txt The document is some 60k in size and if the site is being difficult, I can e-mail a copy direct. The document is also now available as an html file (never again...), with links to some of the key material - film samples, the cameraman's statement, the alleged reel labels, stills from the "tent" footage and a 500mb video file of the entire footage - which exist at various web sites. It's available from URL: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/aa_qa.htm James. Internet; pulsar@compuserve.com P. S. Just kidding about the video file!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 15 Native American Conferences From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 10:27:48 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:36:46 -0500 Subject: Native American Conferences Star Nations Native American-Extraterrestrial Conferences Star Family Conference March 13-16, 1997 San Diego, California Lakota spiritual advisor Standing Elk has announced that the Spirit has indicated that another Gathering/information-sharing by Native American Elders and Anglo specialists on the Star Nations be held on the Pacific Coast near the Spring Equinox. This Conference is to keep up the flow of information concerning the trials that Mother Earth is commencing, and about the imminent return of the Star People. Thus, the Star Family Conference is intended to maintain the momentum of developing awareness developed from the Star Knowledge Conference on the Great Plains last June, and from the Star Visions Conference held in the Rocky Mountains in November. Presenters: Standing Elk (Dakota), Floyd Hand (Lakota), Wablesa (Lakota), Pathfinder, Silver Star (Metis), Kachinas Kutenai, Scout Cloud Lee, Mary Thunder, Monica Medicine Wind, Dr. Brian O'Leary (Astronaut Corps), Dr. Richard Boylan, Dr. Truman Wong, Chet Snow, Angela Brown- Miller, Ph.D., LCSW, Bettye Binder, Han Bets Men (Mayan), Grandmother Wind Rider, Steven Blue Wolf, Jose Fernandez (Puerto Rico), Marilyn Carlson, CHT (Yellow Hand), Paula Peterson, Lewis Martin and Erica Snyder, Star Sparks and other presenters. For more information contact: Marilyn Carlson (206) 379-9624. ************************************************************************* Star Council Conference of Native American Elders and Star People Specialists June 11-14 Rapid City, South Dakota Civic Center, adjacent to the sacred Black Hills. Presenters: Standing Elk (Dakota), Marilyn Carlson, CHT (Yellow Hand), Dr. Richard Boylan, and many other Native-American and non-native speakers to be announced. For more information contact: Marilyn Carlson (206) 379-9624.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Carl Sagan From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jan 97 17:41:22 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:15:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:16:28 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re:V. Spielberg / Bob Shell >Hi again Bob. >What do you mean by: >"I've got another three years on this project, and am not going to screw >things up by trying to speed up the processes. All will come in due >time." >Please explain! It's simple, Jorgen. When I first got involved in this almost two years ago people asked me how long I thought it would take. I responded, based on other past consulting work, that I thought it would take at least five years. I have seen no reason to revise that estimate. I am a patient man, and five years is not a long time. Bob P.S.: On your other comments. My meeting with VS is not to check up on him, which doesn't interest me particularly, but to look at the film reels. For that I'll make the trip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Carl Sagan From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:15:39 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:18:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan Date: 14 Jan 97 16:30:36 EST From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan [snippity, snappity, snop!] > I have neither written to nor spoken with Mr. Spielberg. I am promised a >meeting with him at some point, and am leaving it up to Ray Santilli and >his people to organize that meeting at their convenience. I'm just speculating, but as an investigator who is supposed to be after the truth of the matter, I would think that it might be beneficial for you to contact Mr. Spielberg, if for nothing else, to see what he might have to say to you. > I've got another three years on this project, and am not > going to screw things up by trying to speed up the processes. All will > come in due time. Ah, a five year plan. Sometimes things never cease to amaze me. If you have another 3 years on "the project" why are you so concerned about a publisher now? Perhaps the publishers are waiting for some finality and when you approach the end of this project, they might be better able to assist you in publishing your book. It would bea shame that if you missed the real story by waiting. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:19:52 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:19:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? Hi James.. > Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:25:40 -0500 > From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Moon 'Photos'? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Regarding... > >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 09:57:35 > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Moon 'Photos'? > >From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> > Bob Rickard commented, of 'Fortean Times' said: > We are seeking rebuttals from any NASA scientists, > astronomers or anyone who has special knowledge of lunar photography > or the Apollo programme. If anyone can refer me to some expert of this > nature, who'll venture a paragraph or two of response, please let me > know.< > Bob, > I trust Bob Shell will not mind if I cross-post the following in > response to your request. [...] > "I don't know who this crackpot is, but regardless of his > claimed credentials, he's either a photographic moron, a liar, a > practical joker or crazy. Because his photographic comments are the > most astonishing load of total nonsense. I wonder what he _really_ thinks? [...] > I am not amused. Maybe this is how you like to waste your > time. I don't. Frankly, I found Dick Hoagland's Face on Mars a lot > more credible and at least had a good time proving it wasn't a "face". > This wasn't even good intellectual exercise". > I believe this qualifies as a rebuttal. Thanks for posting this. One of my favourite luna(tic?) stories goes back to the 10th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing. A national radio program, 'The Science Show', invited listeners to send in comments on what the moon landing meant to them. One gentleman's contribution was particularly interesting. He claimed that as he sat up in early hours, waiting for Neil Armstrong to step down from the LEM, in the corner of the TV screen he saw an object roll into view. A moment later he heard a loud expletive uttered in an American accent. As he watched a bare arm reached into shot and removed an empty Coca-Cola bottle. A-ha! Right then he realized that the moon landing was all a hoax! Man never went to the moon, he told us, because "They" would never permit it. In fact, "They" barely tolerated astronauts in orbit, and should NASA or the Russians ever venture out of Earth orbit "They" would deal with them. (Yes, I checked the calendar. The program was not broadcast on April 1st.) Unfortunately we were never told who "They" were, or why no video of the Coke bottle retrieval was ever found. More importantly, we were never told why anyone bothered to mic the lunar set so we'd be able to hear the swearing of the technician in the first place. While a lot of people will accept the views of the JPL expert you've quoted, there'll still be those who'll see "fakery" in the moon landings -- not to mention Coke bottles rolling along the lunar surface. Thanks, John "Houston, Tranquility *burp!* Base Here" -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------* Search for other documents from or mentioning: legion | 100626.2242 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jan 97 18:41:42 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:21:29 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:58:04 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Two Faces of Ufology Dear Rebecca, > When you want to actually come out and say what you are >talking about and who you are referring to then I might be better able to >understand. The who I am referring to is you. You expressed concern over the fact that someone might read the statement about Four Winds and believe that they were in some kind of conspiracy. But you didn't address the other issue that was mentioned in that message. Aren't you afraid that someone might hear McGovern say on the TV program that colour film was highly recommended for medical procedures and believe that? >What are your credentials in reference to video analysis? All of my credentials are in the computer field but I have two eyes. I wasn't aware that credentials were needed to sit down and go thru a string of images and write up what I saw. I didn't need credentials to find that the opening frames could not have been physically attached to the autopsy sequence in the Santilli version of the footage. No one complained about that when I posted it. Or that the samples given out were not on the video nor were they images of the autopsy table. (Someone did complain about that one.) I didn't need credentials to see the walls, or to see that there are indeed drain holes in the table or to find pictures in books from 1947 showing the retractable phone cord. Had I medical credentials, they would have come in handy. Getting differences of opinions from the experts in that field compelled me to ask permission at the med school to view a couple of human autopsies. I also examined a video of a human autopsy. I don't need extra credentials to know how to enhance images or to compare algorythms and tone mapping, those are covered under my computer credentials. And what I don't know, I ask questions about. Are you sure you aren't confusing analysis with examination? I don't know what kind of credentials one would need to examine a video, besides eyes. The only thing I have done that might be considered analysis rather than examination is the tone mapping and algorythm comparisons. And I haven't published that. And I would not, because Ray Santilli said they did enhancements to parts of the footage during the transfer, and that would make any findings in that area inaccurate. That type of analysis would need to be done on the raw unenhanced footage. And well, as you know, Volker said he isn't willing to give up the reel film so there isn't much chance of getting that for analysis. Regards, Theresa (P.S. I'm leaving Friday night for Nevada so any messages that come in after that I probably won't get.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:22:29 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:20:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in National Enquirer Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:36:14 -0700 > Jacque herself is a bit of a mystery. She describes herself as > being Irish (Republic) born and bred, but speaks with an upper > crust British accent. She always seemed to be in pre-production > on one project or another with her then partner Russ somebody > (can't recall his last name), but never seemed to finish > production on anything. I found it odd that during our meetings > which usually took place at restaurants, she always picked up > the tab and always paid in cash never requesting a receipt. I don't know a lot about Jacque Dunne either but I do believe that the film that you are speaking of was shot for Sam Sherman's project (which he is still working on). I have seen the interview as well and it is interesting. Russ' last name, I believe is Estes. Perhaps Sam is on the list and would care to comment. Thanks, Rebecca >
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jan 97 18:41:48 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:22:32 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:57:19 -0800 >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Two Faces of Ufology Ed Stewart, > If you would have bothered to check back into the >past records of this mailing list you would known that I posted the >appropriate record groups related to the Manhattan Project sometime last >year for people to follow up on. BTW, the record groups, for everyone's >information, is given on Rhode's "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" on page >791, published over ten years ago in 1986. Then why did you ask me for the record group, box, folder, etc.??? >Wrong. I knew you had the references. What I didn't know was whether you >had copies of the actual alleged photos. What alleged photos are you talking about? I have a video of footage that is reported to be from Trinity, first shows the fireball from the ground, the same footage that most everyone is familiar with. Then it shows aerial footage of the fireball pushing up thru the cloud cover. >That you failed to provide in your response. You never address what this >alleged evidence in the archives specifically contained. You >circumvented all around it. In the previous message to you I mentioned that I looked for the whereabouts of Luis Alvarez at the time of the blast. What I found in that archive was his eyewitness testimony. He witnessed it from a plane. You see, I read in Lansing Lamont's book "Day of Trinity" that Alvarez was on a plane at the time. But the UFO experts were saying that there were no planes in the air. So I checked to see if I could find where he was, if not on a plane. The document says he WAS on a plane in the air and saw the top of the blast cloud. >In other words, you have not seen this alleged footage of the blast >cloud. You are basing your claim without any verification that can be >attributed to real evidence. But I have a copy of it on video already! What I wasn't sure was if it was Trinity or not. The Archive Technician said it was from my discription of it. The only way I could do better than that, is to purchase copies from the archives. They are quite expensive. However, the statement you made was that you weren't aware of planes in the air at the time of the blast. Please check the archives for the Luis Alvarez statement. You did kindly offer to verify that information. >If you have actually checked and seen that this alleged footage is of the blast >cloud, reproduce it and post here for everyone to see. If not, admit >that you don't have a clue as to what you have been posturing about and >that your accountability and credibility are traits that you need >improvement on. Does this mean that your offer to verify the information no longer stands? I can't very well post the footage that I have here. I can post the eyewitness account if you would like, but it won't be the same as you verifying it with the archives yourself. But yes, I will admit that my accountability and credibility need improvement. Doesn't yours? Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:45:57 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:35:33 -0500 Subject: New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell Story of the Week from http://www.cninews.com NEW BOOK CLAIMS TO BLOW LID ON ROSWELL If rumors are true, a high-level military figure is about to tell all he knows about the famed 1947 Roswell incident, and that could be a lot. Colonel Philip J. Corso reportedly served on President Eisenhower's National Security Council and also headed the Foreign Technology Desk at the U.S. Army's Research and Development Department. Corso's book, "The Day After Roswell," (co-written with William J. Birnes) will be published in July by Pocket Books, a division of Simon and Schuster. According to an announcement from the publisher: "Since 1947, the mysterious crash of an unidentified aircraft in Roswell, New Mexico, has fueled a firestorm of speculation and controversy about whether the craft actually was of another world. No solid evidence has existed to prove the alien theory... until now. Colonel Philip J. Corso (ret.) has come forward to tell the whole explosive story. "Backed by newly declassified documents, Colonel Corso (ret.) reveals his personal stewardship of alien artifacts from the crash, how these items changed the course of twentieth century history, and the U.S. government's astonishing role in covering up the incident. Laying bare some of the government's most closely guarded secrets, "The Day After Roswell" forces us to reconsider our past, as well as our role in the universe. "Colonel Philip Corso was a key Army intelligence officer on President Eisenhower's White House staff. During his 21-year military career, Corso was honored with 19 medals, decorations and ribbons for meritorious service. He was retired from the Army in 1965. "To help celebrate Roswell's fiftieth anniversary, {the Publisher] will kick off the book's publication with an event at the site of the crash. Corso will walk the media through the crash site while providing never-before-heard documentation surrounding extraterrestrial artifacts and government cover-ups." CNI News comments: There have been many Roswell "insiders" over the years whose testimony did not live up to expectations, or could not be authenticated. Will Corso be different? We hope so, but we're not holding our breath (yet). His publicist says he will not do any interviews until publication time, but various claims about his background can and will be checked. We are very curious to find out WHICH crash site Col. Corso will identify as THE crash site, since there are, at last count, no fewer than five contenders. But if Corso actually claims "personal stewardship of alien artifacts from the crash," he may prove to be the most impressive Roswell witness yet.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Corso - Some Background From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Jan 97 09:14:55 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 01:17:21 -0500 Subject: Corso - Some Background Errol, You probably already have these documents, but just in case no one sent them to you I am forwarding them. The first one speaks eloquently as to exactly who Corso is, the second is "interesting" File Number One >>>>> National Security Committee - Military Personnel Subcommittee STATEMENT of - COLONEL {ret.} PHILLIP CORSO Hearing on POW/MIA Accountability - House Subcommittee on Military Personnel - September 17, 1996 * During the Korean War, I was Head of the Special Projects Branch/Intelligence Division/Far East Command. General Douglas MacArthur was in command. I stayed and served in the same position under General Ridgwar and General Clark. My duties included the production of Intelligence on political (counter-insurgency), and subversive activities by the enemy in both North and South Korea. Within this framework I was responsible for intelligence and communist activities (North Korea, Chinese and Soviet) within our prisoner of war camps in South Korea and the enemy camps in North Korea. In 1953, I was a staff member of the truce delegation at Panmunjom and participated in the discussion for the exchange of sick and wounded prisoners. I was on the ground and met and talked with our returning sick and wounded. During the course of my duties, I discovered that the entire operation on the treatment and handling of our prisoners of war was supervised, masterminded and controlled by the Soviet Union, as was the entire operation of the war and hostilities in Korea. I wrote a study on how this control extended into our POW camps holding North Koreans and Chinese in South Korea, nominally in our control. I titled the study, "WAR IN THE POW CAMPS." Soviet policy, conveyed to their allies, was that a soldier taken prisoner is still at war and a combatant. They trained soldiers to be taken as prisoner and then agitate in the camps to keep the POWs in our custory under their control. The brainwashing and atrocities against American prisoners were conscious acts of Soviet policy. Not only was it used on our prisoners, but on their own people and others under their control. The basis for their action was the Pavlovian theory of conditioned reflexes. I had information on medical experiments (Nazi style) on our prisoners. The most devilish and cunning was the techniques of mind altering (Pavlov). It was just as deadly as brain surgery and many U.S. POWs died under such treatment. This was told to me by our own returning POWs. Many POWs willed themselves to death. My findings revealed that the Soviets taught their allies, the Chinese Communists and North Koreans, a detailed scientific process aimed at molding prisoners of war into forms in which they could be exploited. Returned prisoners who underwent the experience reported the experts assigned to mold them were highly trained, efficient and well educated. They were specialists in applying a deadly psychological treatment which often ended in physical torment. The Soviet approach was a deliberate act of their overall policy which actively rejects, subverts and destroys decent standards of conduct and the whole structure of human values. Upon my return to the United States, I was assigned to the Operations Coordinating Board (OCB) of the White House, National Security Council, and handled virtually all projects to U.S. prisoners of war. Here I found out that U.S. policy forbade that we win in Korea. The policy amounted to an actual paralysis and diversion of activity to force the return of our prisoners in enemy hands, including those in the Soviet Union. Years later, I discussed this situation with Attorney General Robert Kennedy in his office and he agreed with me. This "NO WIN" policy is contained in policy directives NSC-68, NSC-68/2 and NSC-135/3. The basis for this policy was in directives ORE-750, NIE 2, 2/1, 2/2, 10 and 11. We called this the "FIG LEAF POLICY." Note: Recently, the CIA in news releases admitted their NIE (National Intelligence Estimates) were wrong or not accurate. In the past I have tried to tell Congress the fact that in 1953, 500 sick and wounded American prisoners were within ten miles of the prisoner exchange point at Panmunjom but were never exchanged. (Subsequent information indicated that they all died afterwards.) Although I prepared a statement that was made at the Panmunjom delegation table, I was not asked even one question regarding this event. During my tour of duty as the chief of the Special Projects Section of the Intelligence Division of the Far East Command, I received numerous reports that American POWs has been sent to the Soviet Union. These reports were from many sources: Chinese and North Korean POWs, agent reports, Nationalist Chinese reports, our guerrillas, NSA intercepts, defectors and from our own returning POWs. My intelligence centered around three train loads of 450 POWs each. Two of these trainloads were confirmed over and over, the third was not as certain. Therefore, the final figure was, "confirmed 900, and 1,200 possibly. " These were the figures that I discovered with President Eisenhower while I was a member of his NSC. The bulk of the sightings were at Manchu-Ii, on the border of Manchuria and the USSR. Here the rail gauge changed and the U.S. POWs had to be transferred across a platform to a waiting train going into the Soviet Union. These POWs were to be exploited for intelligence purposes and subsequently eliminated. The methods of exploitation were not only practiced on our POWs, but all others falling into COMMUNIST hands. To the skeptics and debunkers, I have only this to say: By some flashback in time, I wish you could be present with me at the prisoner exchanges in Korea in 1953 and look into the faces of those sick and wounded prisoners --- Americans and allied soldiers --- as they came across in the exchange. If you had witnessed their sacrifices and what they had suffered by COMMUNIST hands, you would not be a critic or skeptic today. I will close with this final remembrance. At Panmunjom, as a wounded Turkish soldier was exchanged, he peeled off the Chinese padded clothing and flung them at the nearest COMMUNIST guard. I asked the Turkish Captain standing with me, "What did he say?" He answered, "Till we meet again." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- File Number Two Thursday January 2 11:33 PM EST CIA Unveils New Plan to Open Up Secrets WASHINGTON (Reuter) - The Central Intelligence Agency said Thursday it had begun a declassification review of two vast bodies of documents that could shed new light on the Cold War and may open up many secrets. The reviews involve all records that flowed in and out of the office of the director of central intelligence for the past 50 years, as well as all CIA studies on the former Soviet Union from the spy agency's inception in 1947. The twin initiatives were being carried out by the CIA's Center for the Study of Intelligence, a kind of in-house think tank, at the urging of the director of central intelligence's historical review panel of outside historians, CIA spokesman David Christian said. The CIA declined to cite a target for making public the eligible parts of this material, but said its long-delayed release of files from another major declassification project -- involving 11 key Cold War covert actions -- would begin in a matter of weeks, "subject to final review by senior officials." The first of the declassified covert actions would concern the 1954 coup that overthrew Jacobo Arbenz Guzman, the elected president of Guatemala, Christian said. He said these documents were "on the verge of release." He said that could be followed within weeks by release of records on the failed 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. Next up would be files on the 1953 coup that installed the late Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi in Iran, Christian said. But alluding to chronic problems in meeting its own timetable for making such material public, the CIA spokesman declined to name a target for release of the Iran records or any of the other Cold War covert actions. Christian said the CIA's plans to declassify its covert actions, first promised in 1992 by then-CIA Director Robert Gates, had been set back two years by the 1992 John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Law under which the CIA made public more than 200,000 pages of records. The declassification review of the files of the 17 men who have served as the nation's top spymaster would stretch back to 1946, when the office of director of central intelligence was created to manage the transition from the wartime Office of Strategic Services to the CIA. Although not all reviewed material would necessarily be made public because of the need to protect intelligence sources and methods, the review would involve things like telephone logs, appointment books, memos written by the directors, and memos that they received, Christian said. "This could be very interesting," he added. The CIA studies on the former Soviet Union that are under declassification review are distinct from "national intelligence estimates" on the same subject, which are the work of the entire intelligence community. More than 450 of these have already been released in recent years. Among the other Cold War actions due for declassification review are activities in support of democracy in France and Italy in the 1940s and 1950s, insurgencies in Indonesia and Tibet in the 1950s and 1960s, secret operations against North Korea during the Korean War and against Communist forces in Laos during the Vietnam War. John Lewis Gaddis, a leading Cold War historian who is a former member of the historical review panel, said he would not be satisfied with the CIA's declassification effort until he saw what they actually turned over to the National Archives, the independent agency that catalogues government documents. "The proof is going to be in the pudding," he said in a telephone interview from Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. "The real issue is when are actual documents going to show up at the National Archives, as opposed to the CIA's own highly selective publications of historical materials ... What a historian wants is to see the archives."<<<<<<< Sorry for not having a > in front of every line, but the only way I can do that with my software is to manually insert each one, and I just don't have the time. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:00:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:29:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Drake's Ark (was: Drake's Equation) >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 12:42:20 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >David Lynn in trying desperately to comprehend the universe unaided... Don't be so hard on yourself, Pat. You've really been a big help so far! RE: Mars Rock >You gotta admit that such navigation is only possible >either naturally or via NASA or someone really good >in Newtonian physics. Aren't there zillions of chunks of many planets randomly flying around our solar system? Aren't a few of them bound to crash into Earth from time to time? At best, it's just one very lucky rock caught up in an event that's statistically bound to happen sooner or later. I don't know if I'd call that 'navigation'. BTW, what's so 'un'natural about NASA (all obvious jokes aside)? >I tend to think of the universe as a living thing. Are you attempting to anthropomorphize the universe or do they practice a lot of animism down there in Texas? You can't rally the masses by trying to convince them that a rock is an alien. They want extraterrestrials that they can relate to, like John Tesh or the Chupacabras! If you want to know the universe, stare at an egg without blinking for 30 to 60 minutes. You'll know it when you get there ;-) >It could well >be that planets and smaller stuff are kinda like a bicarbonate >used to sequester the major heartburn from so many super >novas. It would naturally follow that God, in His wisdom, would >do such a thing. Hale Bopp may be a giant Rolaids. Perhaps Hale Bopp's enigmatic traveling companion is a Tums. Maybe they aren't the antacid itself, but simply promotional eye-grabbers like those banner-pulling planes at the beach. We've been bombarding them with commercials for so long, they must think that's the way we communicate. D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 19:56:08 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:30:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life At 08:47 AM 1/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:30:51 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mendoza's Secret Life [...] >Gary, nobody has yet addressed those issues. In fact, this was going to >be my final point. The best way to counter disinformation would be with >facts. A good solid list from you or Brian of mistakes or >misrepresentations or character assassinations in Peter's book would do >much more to counter its effect than unsubstantiated charges will. Fight >disinformation with truth. Calm down, Greg. As soon as I can make it up to the nearest Barnes & Noble, I'll buy the book and post examples to the list of what I personally found to be deceptive writing. That's why I haven't responded until now, but I haven't had a chance to get the book yet. I spent a *lot* of time reading it at a friend's place and at the bookstore once, and I was quite astonished to see the numerous deceptive tactics in the book. Brookesmith is no ordinary skeptic. I don't call authors like Peebles disinformationists, because they are consistent and honest. I found Brookesmith's "mistakes" to be beyond mere shoddy research and into the realm of wild distortions. The expensive publication and heavy marketing also make me wonder. But for future reference, Greg, the big tipoff to separate honest but misguided skeptics from the shifty spooks is to see how they represent themselves and how consistently they implement their self-perceptions. Brookesmith doesn't present himself as a skeptic or debunker, but he sure as hell is, and after that raised my eyebrow, I noticed numerous glaring problems. He's trying to lure in the fence-sitters and then cram disinformation down their throats. Kind of like Kal Korff, who "is only interested in the truth about Roswell, whatever it may be". Korff pretends to be a middle-of-the-roader the way Brookesmith pretends to be "long interested in the paranormal", which is crap. Korff, who is with Lawrence Livermore or one of those DoE joints, was caught in several obvious, quite likely intentionally deceptive arguments by Rudiak during his Mogul supporting. The common thread is that they pretend to be middle-of-the-road, but all they do is advance debunking arguments that look very deceptive, more so than an honest skeptic argument. Please don't bother replying with another flurry of righteous indignation, because I understand your interest in seeing specific examples, and as soon as I obtain a copy (hell if I'm standing at a bus stop in this brutal Chicago weather), I'll be sure to post examples with excruciating detail, and Brookesmith will have the right to defend himself. Hopefully this time he'll be serious about a rebuttal and not as flippant as he was last time. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels From: Glenn Sheper <gscheper@gentech.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:55:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:32:13 -0500 Subject: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels To Michael Christol, via UFO UpDates - Toronto, and to Daniel Wilson, via the paranormal list: Thanks for your responses. I must agree, my account is highly speculative. However, I have a reasonable assignment for just about every word or phrase, from Ez 1:4, to 1:28. Such a long correlation should pique every reader. Consider in particular for that characteristic image, ...the form and function of a wheel within a wheel..., that the crankshaft fills the bill perfectly.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in Enquirer From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 00:06:49 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:35:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in Enquirer BOB SHELL, sniffing out the goods on Gordon Cooper said; >Personally, I think Cooper is telling the truth about his UFO encounters, but >his comments about the coverup are hearsay and speculation, just like most >others. Which others? You don't mean?!?!?!.... Naw, I'll wait the three years. 1. UFO encounters are true. 2. Coverups are speculation. 3. All is not Roswell. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Video of 'Object' in Moon Orbit From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:09:19 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:33:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Video of 'Object' in Moon Orbit >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:10:55 +0000 >From: Steve Nalepa <s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Video of 'Object' in Moon Orbit >My name is Steve Nalepa and I am a reasearcher for the television news >program Strange Universe. We are a national nightly news program >covering a wide range of unusual, extraordinary news, spanning new >technology, the space program, conspiracies, mysteries, miracles, >psychics, ufos, etc. I recently came across The Lunascan Project, and >I am very interested in finding out more about it. Can you actually >see an object in orbit around the moon in the video? I would love to >hear more about this project, and we are very interested in seeing the >video, possibly to do a segment on it. Could you please e-mail me >back or give me a call at: > >Strange Universe >Steve Nalepa >(818) 972-9816 x211 >e-mail: s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com > >Thanks a lot. I look forward to hearing from you soon. >Peace, >Steve Steve, http://www.title14.com/Lunascan/ is the Lunascan webpage. D. Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 23:46:59 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:34:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels Michael Christol commenting on Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels, was chickahominy when he said; >I won't even go into the "creatures" in the object. I wish you would. It would be refreshing to get this Biblical Roswell case solved once & for all. Heck, you know me, Mike, going where Angels fear to tread is nothing out of the ordnary. ~Pat~ * For those who choked on chickahominy it simply means young chicken which translates to 'a little chicken'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Moon 'Photos'? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 00:15:35 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:36:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon 'Photos'? legion@werple.net.au said; >Thanks, > John "Houston, Tranquility *burp!* Base Here" Incorrect! It's; "Uh... Houston, Tranquility *burp!* Base Here" The very first word uttered by man from the Moon was; "Uh..." And don't you ever forget it! ;) ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Alien Abduction - Question From: MD <mdriscol@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:54:50 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:41:44 -0500 Subject: Alien Abduction - Question Greetings, list members! I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and I must admit, you are an intimidating bunch. I've always been really interested in anything I came across regarding UFOs, aliens, and the like, but I'm blown away at the level of discourse here. There's clearly a subculture I've never known anything about. I first picked up Whitley Streiber's book, Communion, when it was first out in paperback, and I think that was around 1985 or 1986, maybe a year or two later. It has a lot of the same details as an experience I had in 1970 when I was 15 years old. At the time, I regarded it as a "dream" because there was nothing else to call it, but really, it was not dreamlike except that it happened in my bedroom during the night. Well, I'm not looking for a hypnotherapist or anything. What I really want is to correspond with another person or persons who have had this experience, too. I want to ask questions and check impressions and stuff. I just never have had a conversation with any other person whose had this experience. I've read lots of books that have come out, one or two by Budd Hopkins I think, and I have one here called Secret Life by David M. Jacobs. Does anyone have knowledge of a listserv conference where "abductees" talk to each other? I'd love to know about it if you do. Margaret Driscoll
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:04:35 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:40:47 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > Date: 15 Jan 97 18:41:48 EST > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology I know you addressed this to Ed, but I would like some clarification on this one thing. > What alleged photos are you talking about? I have a video of footage > that is reported to be from Trinity, first shows the fireball from the ground, > the same footage that most everyone is familiar with. Then it shows aerial > footage of the fireball pushing up thru the cloud cover. Does this video have a name, number or something? Is it commercially available or is from a TV Show? If from a TV show, can you tell us which one? You could have saved a lot of wasted time by saying you had some footage way back whenever this began being talked about. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:33:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:44:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life Brian Zeiler wrote: > Calm down, Greg. As soon as I can make it up to the nearest Barnes & Noble, > I'll buy the book and post examples to the list of what I personally found > to be deceptive writing. Brian, I have the book, and could easily post examples of things I think are wrong. But "deceptive" is a strong word. Can you really tell just by reading that a writer was trying to fool you, and wasn't also fooling him- or herself? Maybe you could do that with a political figure, or someone involved in intelligence work, who could be shown to be lying. But a mere UFO skeptic...I doubt it. > I don't call authors like Peebles disinformationists, because they are > consistent and honest. I found Brookesmith's "mistakes" to be beyond mere > shoddy research and into the realm of wild distortions. Peebles honest? Curtis Peebles, author of Watch the Skies? Now there's a man I think is mendacious, with a capital "L" for lie. Read the review in the current Journal of UFO Studies. One example I can give you comes from Peebles' treatment of the 1952 Washington sightings. He quotes from Edward Ruppelt's classic book, as well he might, since Ruppelt had just been appointed head of Project Blue Book, and was on the scene, though not officially involved in the evaluation of the events. Ruppelt, a truly objective man back then, writes a lengthy summation, giving reasons why he thought there might not have been real UFOs involved, and then reasons why there might have been. Peebles truncates the quotation, giving only the first part, with no indication that Ruppelt went on to present an opposite view. Now, that's on its face dishonest. > Greg, the big tipoff to separate honest but misguided skeptics > from the shifty spooks is to see how they represent themselves and how > consistently they implement their self-perceptions. Brookesmith doesn't > present himself as a skeptic or debunker, but he sure as hell is, and > after that raised my eyebrow, I noticed numerous glaring problems. He's > trying to lure in the fence-sitters and then cram disinformation down > their throats. Well, then Sagan would have been an agent, especially early on, when he presented himself as sympathetic to UFOs. Oberg is an agent, because he's always called himself the "sympathetic skeptic." How far do you want to take this? Is Karl Pflock is an agent, because he presents himself as a ufologist, but thinks the Roswell crash wasn't alien? Is Kevin Randle an agent, because he thinks abductions aren't real events? As for your last line in the passage I've just quoted -- "He's trying to lure in the fence-sitters and then cram disinformation down their throats" -- isn't that an example of what logicians call the "intentional fallacy"? I agree that the book might have the effect you worry about. But does that -- taken by itself -- mean Peter deliberately calculated it to have that effect? Back to the real skeptics, though. There's not one of them, in my opinion, who writes objectively. Klass, for instance, is one of the most deceptive writers I've ever read on any subject. Oberg, Menzel, and Schaefer wouldn't be far behind. And they all present themselves as open-minded. Take Klass. He says he thinks alien visits are unlikely, but loves to orate on how thrilled he'd be if one occurred. Does that make him an agent, too? The only UFO skeptic I've ever heard about who'd pass a stringent version of your test would be Jill Tarter, an astrophysicist involved with SETI. She at least had the grace to say she was "closed-minded" about aliens visiting here. I'm deliberately exaggerating your point, because I think you've drawn a very tricky line. Certainly I don't think one can put "real" skeptics in one pile, distinguished by the honesty of their writing, and "deceptive" middle of the roaders in another, distinguished by their dishonest prose. I doubt you could tell one from another in a blind test. One other point. You mentioned the "heavy marketing" of Brookesmith's book. I haven't seen newspaper ads. All I've seen are displays at Barnes and Noble (laughably implying that the book is pro-UFO). I'm not even sure the book -- which B&N published -- is available at any other stores. And it's displayed in B&N's bargain section, not with the latest books from major publishers. Nor has B&N sent Peter on tour in the US to promote the volume. Since publicity tours and advertising are two key tools in marketing any book, I'd say this one is hardly being marketed at all. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:04:18 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:39:52 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > Date: 15 Jan 97 18:41:42 EST > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology Dear Theresa, > The who I am referring to is you. You expressed concern over the fact > that someone might read the statement about Four Winds and believe that they > were in some kind of conspiracy. Why Thank you for calling me two faced! I might have several names; however that does not necessarily mean I am two faced. In fact, if I were two faced I might put on a better one than this. <g> > But you didn't address the other issue that was mentioned in that > message. Am I required by one these new rules in ufology to respond to every point? Where are these rules posted anyway? > Aren't you afraid that someone might hear McGovern say on the TV program > that colour film was highly recommended for medical procedures and believe > that? I'm not afraid of that at all. Do you want to share your findings about that? If you know something: spit it out! Don't keep hinting around about things you may or may not know. > >What are your credentials in reference to video analysis? > All of my credentials are in the computer field but I have two eyes. I > wasn't aware that credentials were needed to sit down and go thru a string of > images and write up what I saw. I didn't need credentials to find that the > opening frames could not have been physically attached to the autopsy sequence > in the Santilli version of the footage. No one complained about that when I > posted it. Or that the samples given out were not on the video nor were they > images of the autopsy table. (Someone did complain about that one.) I didn't > need credentials to see the walls, or to see that there are indeed drain holes > in the table or to find pictures in books from 1947 showing the retractable > phone cord. Gosh Theresa, you sure are defensive. I was just curious. I wasn't trying to make a federal case out of anything. As I have said before you have done some excellent work in regards to the footage. But not everyone is familar with the work that you have done and how what you have to say may be of importance. > Had I medical credentials, they would have come in handy. Getting > differences of opinions from the experts in that field compelled me to ask > permission at the med school to view a couple of human autopsies. I also > examined a video of a human autopsy. All admirable. > I don't need extra credentials to know how to enhance images or to > compare algorythms and tone mapping, those are covered under my computer > credentials. > And what I don't know, I ask questions about. Questions are always good. I think it is very important to get opinions of ones peers and/or other experts when doing any kind of research. > Are you sure you aren't confusing analysis with examination? I don't > know what kind of credentials one would need to examine a video, besides eyes. > The only thing I have done that might be considered analysis rather than > examination is the tone mapping and algorythm comparisons. And I haven't > published that. I could be confusing analysis with examination. I don't know. > And I would not, because Ray Santilli said they did enhancements to parts > of the footage during the transfer, and that would make any findings in that > area inaccurate. That type of analysis would need to be done on the raw > unenhanced footage. And well, as you know, Volker said he isn't willing to > give up the reel film so there isn't much chance of getting that for analysis. That is _if_ Volker has the reel(s). > (P.S. I'm leaving Friday night for Nevada so any messages that come in > after that I probably won't get.) Well, it is very early Thursday morning when I am sending this and hopefully the list master will be able to meet the deadline. (Just Kidding, Errol!) Have a safe trip. I'm sure you will find the UFO Conference (if that is where you are heading) to be a real eye opener. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 01:57:32 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:42:46 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > Date: 15 Jan 97 18:41:48 EST > From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:57:19 -0800 > >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: The Two Faces of Ufology > Then why did you ask me for the record group, box, folder, etc.??? I understand this may be conceptually difficult for you to understand, but it is called documenting your claim. Let's update what you have said in the past in presenting your claim: "My search of the archives turned up more information. I was curious if you had done the same search." The implication being that you had actually/physically searched the archives and the result of that search produced the evidence you purport to substantiate your claim and that at minimum you had physically seen the contents of this "evidence" at your search of the archives. As we shall see below, I for one would be extremely embarrassed if I had done "the same search" you posture to have done. > What alleged photos are you talking about? I have a video of footage that > is reported to be from Trinity, first shows the fireball from the ground, the > same footage that most everyone is familiar with. Then it shows aerial footage > of the fireball pushing up thru the cloud cover. In other words you have some video that is not from the archives, that you have failed to provide any source documentation as to its genesis and provenance, that you have failed to provide any linkage to it as actually being from the Trinity Blast. And --- there is not one iota reverencing this "evidence" of yours in any of your prior posts. Yet, you have continued to posture, postulate and imply that your "research" of the archives has produced this evidence. > >That you failed to provide in your response. You never address what this > >alleged evidence in the archives specifically contained. You > >circumvented all around it. > > In the previous message to you I mentioned that I looked for the > whereabouts of Luis Alvarez at the time of the blast. What I found in that > archive was his eyewitness testimony. He witnessed it from a plane. You see, I > read in Lansing Lamont's book "Day of Trinity" that Alvarez was on a plane at > the time. But the UFO experts were saying that there were no planes in the air. > So I checked to see if I could find where he was, if not on a plane. The > document says he WAS on a plane in the air and saw the top of the blast cloud. Let's see. You have Luiz Alvarez on an airplane where he produces sketches and drawings of the blast. For some reason you decided not to mention that Luiz Alvarez needed to produce sketches and drawings in order to document his observation. I wonder why that was done if cameras were rolling? You have video that you have failed to identify the source, genesis and provenance of an atomic bomb test that someone that you have not identified told you was Trinity. Yet, you have so far failed to provide any documentation to link the two together so that a compelling chain of evidence can be formed. > >In other words, you have not seen this alleged footage of the blast > >cloud. You are basing your claim without any verification that can be > >attributed to real evidence. > But I have a copy of it on video already! What I wasn't sure was if it was > Trinity or not. The Archive Technician said it was from my discription of it. Mr. Holdcamper no doubt, who you no doubt contacted by calling (202)501-5400, the name and phone number you posted previously. > The only way I could do better than that, is to purchase copies from the > archives. Let's see. You posted that if I was to call (202) 501-5400 the archives would provide me with an archivist to help my questions on research record group 77. Is that not correct? Really!!! The number you posted is to the main archives. As it so happens, all film is kept at College Park in Maryland and not at the main National Archives. An archivist physically located miles and miles from College Park, Maryland, would have extreme difficulty in assisting anyone with anything located at College Park. You also stated that you thought the main record group archivist was a Mr. Holdcamper. Guess what? Nobody at the main National archives ever heard of a Mr. Holdcamper. But, then again, the film records are not there as you implied in your response to my questions to post in context exactly what you found and where? What is also interesting is if someone was to call College Park and ask about this alleged Mr. Holdcamper whose name you provided as the individual that assisted you and the record group archivist, they would not know who in the heck he is either. They have never heard of him at either College Park, Maryland, where the film records for group 77 are, or at the National Archives in Washington, D.C. whose phone you provided as part of your response implying that one could find out about both this alleged film that you have never seen from the archives, or this alleged archivist that supposedly assisted you in your search that no one at either location in Washington or College Park, MD. seem to know anything about. > They are quite expensive. However, the statement you made was that > you weren't aware of planes in the air at the time of the blast. What I know or don't know is not the issue. The issue is your claim that you have uncovered evidence that establishes that there was aerial shots of the Trinity Blast taken at the time of the test with the implication that that provides substantiation to the "cameraman's story". Even if there ever turns out to have been previously unknown aerial footage of the actual test taken (without the linkage tying "Jack" to the airplane the data would be still totally irrelevant), and that you have searched and found this evidence in the National Archives of all places. > >If you have actually checked and seen that this alleged footage is of the blast > >cloud, reproduce it and post here for everyone to see. If not, admit > >that you don't have a clue as to what you have been posturing about and > >that your accountability and credibility are traits that you need > >improvement on. > > Does this mean that your offer to verify the information no longer stands? Believe when I state that your story is being checked out thoroughly based on the material you have posted to this list, even though you have already displayed an amazing amount of duplicity in your "facts", and when that research is completed the results will be posted to this list. Don't be surprised when you find that there are more than one person checking into your story and "research". > I can't very well post the footage that I have here. I can post the > eyewitness account if you would like, but it won't be the same as you verifying > it with the archives yourself. Let's see. You have made a claim that you have verified this evidence by searching the national archives, when in reality you haven't. You have no idea at all what the National Archives footage of Trinity comprises of. You have given this list a phone number where no archivist can assist the caller since the film footage is not at that facility, but at College Park Maryland and you have provided a name that has not checked out with anybody that either works at the National Archives, or the College Park, Maryland branch. Your alleged "search" of the National Archives in all probability is an electronic search of the NAIL database online, but then again the reference numbers for those that you posted are incorrect and if given to an archivists as reverence, they would not be able to find out zilch related to anyone's inquiry. So far you are not doing very good. Let's see what is it that you really have. You have a video that did not originate from the National Archives and that you failed to mention as the basis for your claim even though you falsely lead everyone on this list implying that your evidence was from the National Archives. You have the say-so of someone you don't identify, that this video is of Trinity even though you don't have anything to back it up except your willingness to believe hearsay. You did correctly identify Luiz Alvarez being in an airplane circling the test site, making sketches and drawings of whatever part of the blast he could momentarily glimpse through dense shifting cloud cover from 20 to 30 miles away in turbulent weather conditions during one of the worst weather fronts to hit that area. And now you claim that your "search" of the archives was a phone call to a number where the Manhattan Project film files do not even reside and where the archivists at that number have never heard of the archivist you cite as part of your "evidence". > But yes, I will admit that my accountability and > credibility need improvement. Doesn't yours? See Above. Further updates will be made as the search for Therera's credibility continues. Ed Stewart ps. please feel free to change or update your research adventures to this list as the search continues for the alleged National archives film (OOOPS! non-archive video of undetermined origin), that the National Archives has (OOOPS! Not at this branch!), secured with the assistance of Mr. Holdcamper (OOPS! Who? Never heard of him), conclusively showing aerial footage as the Trinity mushroom breaks through the cloud cover(OOOPS! Says Who? Hearsay says who), as Luiz Alvarez frantically was trying to maintain his balance between the pilot and co-pilot trying to visually record the Trinity blast by producing sketches and drawings. pps. Where was "Jack" all this time? "Jack", this might be a good time to come out of the cold. It appears to me that Theresa could use a little bit of help. Her research claims appear to be running into some turbulence. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Mr Gorsky's Lunar Landing Luck From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:01:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:01:00 -0500 Subject: Mr Gorsky's Lunar Landing Luck ebk ---------------------------- File Name: FLATNIEL.TXT Key Date: 03-29-96 Keyed by: Errol Bruce-Knapp From: Flatland Magazine #13 P.O. Box 2420 Fort Bragg, California 95437 http://www.mcn.org/cbc/Bussect/Flatland/flatland.html flatland@mcn.org =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= When Apollo Mission Astronaut Neil Armstrong first walked on the moon, he not only made his famous 'One Small Step for Man, One Giant Leap for Mankind' statement, but followed it by several remarks - usual comm-traffic between him, the other astronauts and Mission Control. Before he re-entered the 'lander', he made an enigmatic remark: "Good Luck, Mr Gorsky." Many people at NASA thought it was a casual remark concerning some rival Soviet Cosmonaut: however, upon checking, there was no Gorsky in either the Russian or American space programs. Over the years, many people have questioned him as to what the 'Good Luck, Mr. Gorsky' statement meant. On July 5 in Tampa Bay, FL, while answering questions following a speech, a reporter brought up the 26 year old question to Armstrong. He finally responded. It seems that Mr. Gorsky had died and so Armstrong felt he could answer the question. When he was a kid, Neil was playing baseball with his brother in the backyard. His brother hit a fly ball which landed in front of his neighbours bedroom window. The neighbours were Mr. and Mrs. Gorsky. As he leaned down to pick up the ball, Neil heard Mrs. Gorsky shouting at Mr. Gorsky. "Oral sex? Oral sex you want? You'll get oral sex when the kid next door walks on the moon!" --- Mlle LeFractale =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= EOF
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Carl Sagan From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jan 97 09:52:05 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:04:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:15:39 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan Hi Rebecca, Maybe I should clarify about Volker Spielberg. I certainly do want to talk to him, and would be happier if this occurred sooner rather than later. I have been in Ray's office when Ray telephoned Volker and discussed me coming to a city in Europe to inspect the actual film. Volker agreed at the time and we planned the trip. Unfortunately, and this is true even though it may sound flakey, we were all looking at the wrong month on our calendars, and had set the meeting up for a Sunday. We discovered this a couple of weeks later and cancelled, and have been waiting for a convenient time for all concerned since then. Also, let me clarify about my reason for wanting a publisher sooner rather than later. I have financed all of my own research on the film with the exception of a US $2,000 reimbursement of expenses from Ray and a $ 250 speaker's fee from Lou for the Ozark conference talk. So that's $2,250 total income and well over $10,000 output on this project. There is a lot more research I want to do, but most involves travel and time away from my regular job. I can't afford to pay for this myself. Publishers pay a certain amount of money in advance to an author which is to be used in producing the material for the book, and this advance is subtracted from later royalties. I want to get a publisher committed to the project so they will put out some money up front and I will be able to do some of the other research I feel is needed. Standard publishing procedure would be to put out a book soon and then if there is some sort of closure and final conclusions, a second edition including that material would be published. This is common publishing practice. A couple of my past books have gone into 2nd and 3rd editions as updates became necessary. However, if a publisher wished to wait until things were final, that would be cool with me, so long as we had a firm agreement to do the book. You are just hearing of the "five year plan"? I have made no secret of that for quite some time. I don't say that it will absolutely, positively take five years. That is just a ballpark projection based on past experience, gut feeling, and some industrial windage. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: johnb@island.net (John Bindernagel) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:33:38 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:27:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs Hi. I'm a visitor from ... the Sasquatch Interest Group and have been lurking here for a week or so to learn how you deal with the problems regarding the validity of eyewitness testimony, circumstantial evidence, etc. Hope you don't mind. The dialogue under this heading has been very helpful and I see that we do indeed have the same problems. I would like to mention two points: 1. Regarding the issue of whether 60% or 80% or 95% of reports are valid - Sasquatch author John Green reminds us that if only one report out of the thousands in our database is valid we still have an authentic problem (phenomenon?) to explain. 2. We scientists like to discard data that does not fit our preconceptions or established trends, assumming (hoping?) they are errors in measurement. These "outliers" sometimes turn out to be very important and we ignore them at our peril. There is the issue of "intellectual integrity" wherin we really should not refer only to the data which support our case and quietly omit those embarrassing exceptions and examples which may support an opposing view. (We have lots of these in the sasquatch database.) You probably have have already dealt with these issues but I thought I'd jump in here as someone who has enjoyed your dialogue wanted to comment on a dilemma we have in common. Many thanks for all your help. John Bindernagel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 US Congressman 'Connection' From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:04:56 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:28:39 -0500 Subject: US Congressman 'Connection' To All: I urge you to take advantage of this offer. You never know what might come of it. Dave Vetterick > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:40:30 -0600 > From: Dennis Innes <djinnes@mail.ohio.net> > Reply-to: djinnes@mail.ohio.net > To: skywatch@wic.net > Subject: US Congressman > > Dear Col; > > I'm currently in a unique position , in that I've had daily professional > / personal contact for the past three weeks with a Senior U.S. > Congressman. > > Being a long time UFO " buff ", I decided to probe a little bit to see > what he was willing to tell me. I " flat out " asked him the other day : > "Why is the Government covering up this UFO thing ?" He seemed a little > taken aback by this question, and proceeded with a long chuckle. "Well, > let me tell you " , he said, " While I was chairing the intelligence > committee - this UFO question came up , and we investigated it. We > didn't find anything to it." He laughed a little more, and said:"There's > just no hard evidence ...I think this UFO controversy is brought on by > people who - just want to believe." He smiled at me and shook his head a > little ; making me feel as though I was asking silly questions. I must > admit , he did seem genuine in his disbelief. However , I also had the > "gut" feeling that he was holding something back. > > I don't want to appear brash, or insolent , and therefore I'm unsure if > I should pursue this topic with him. Perhaps , your forum readers will > have some suggestions for me as to what to do next , if anything ? > Should I offer him documents ? If so , what documents ? Could this help > to advance the "cause" to end Govt. secrecy? I have two more weeks of > business with this gentleman. > > Any suggestions / thoughts would be appreciated. > > Sincerely > DJ Innes > ---------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: veterick | djinnes |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:06:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:38:01 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 10:49:37 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? > >Corl Ribl=E9t writes, after watching a Discovery channel show on alien >abductions: >Was this Michael Persinger?=20 >If so, his hypothesis is built on a staggering series of assumptions and >guesses. He hasn't at all demonstrated that tectonic processes generate >the kind of electromagnetic fields that could account for the effects >he's demonstrated in the lab.=20 But the combination of his work and the tight concurrence of electromagnetic activity associated with geologic activity and UFO sightings in the US and UK are interesting. I suppose one could assume that UFOs cause geologic activity...<grin> >Nor has he shown why these effects could cause abduction imagery, as >opposed to hallucinations of other kinds.=20 He's shown that these effects can cause all sorts of imagery and sensation, some related to the abduction sub-theme and some not. Certainly doesn't explain so-called alien abductions but the coincidence is very interesting. >I've seen Persinger on TV, and he struck me as something of a crackpot, >despite his credentials and some impressive research into the >conjunction of earthquakes and UFO reports. I doubt he's a "crackpot," just looks that way because some folks have tried to make too much out of some very preliminary work of his.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:34:41 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:38:36 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > Date: 15 Jan 97 14:57:49 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > (Note to Rebecca: You say "Considering the source of the message, it > angered me." Why should a message from me specifically anger you? Do > I make you mad merely by existing? I thought we were well past that > stage in our relationship. > I accept you for who and what you are, and thought you had decided to > extend the same courtesy to me. You are a good researcher, and I'd > like to be on good terms with you.) Thanks for the compliment which considering the source is not worth squat. Just kidding Bob. NO, you do not anger me merely by existing... it is just the fact that you exist which angers me. Just kidding again. You know there is really no tactful way for me to answer this. I have tried about 10 times and can't think of the appropriate words to dance around the issue. <g> I like you Bob, I like lots of people. But that does not mean that I believe or trust everything they say. I'm sure you have found yourself in a similar situation before. Maybe I showed poor judgment by stating "considering the source" so publicly. But FWIW, it's the truth, as I see it. Nothing personal though. You're still a nice man. And I really do like you. Maybe we could play poker sometime. <g> Rebecca ps. Here's some extra g's for you to put wherever you like in this message. <g> <g> <g> <g> <G> <G> <G> <G> Hope that is enough.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Carl Sagan From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:48:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:48:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:34:51 +0100 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: 16 Jan 97 09:52:05 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:15:39 -0500 (EST) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >Hi Rebecca, > >Maybe I should clarify about Volker Spielberg. I certainly do want to talk to >him, and would be happier if this occurred sooner rather than later. I have >been in Ray's office when Ray telephoned Volker and discussed me coming to a >city in Europe to inspect the actual film. Volker agreed at the time and we >planned the trip. Unfortunately, and this is true even though it may sound >flakey, we were all looking at the wrong month on our calendars, and had set the >meeting up for a Sunday. We discovered this a couple of weeks later and >cancelled, and have been waiting for a convenient time for all concerned since >then. > >Also, let me clarify about my reason for wanting a publisher sooner rather than >later. I have financed all of my own research on the film with the exception of >a US $2,000 reimbursement of expenses from Ray and a $ 250 speaker's fee from >Lou for the Ozark conference talk. So that's $2,250 total income and well over >$10,000 output on this project. There is a lot more research I want to do, but >most involves travel and time away from my regular job. I can't afford to pay >for this myself. Publishers pay a certain amount of money in advance to an >author which is to be used in producing the material for the book, and this >advance is subtracted from later royalties. I want to get a publisher committed >to the project so they will put out some money up front and I will be able to do >some of the other research I feel is needed. > >Standard publishing procedure would be to put out a book soon and then if there >is some sort of closure and final conclusions, a second edition including that >material would be published. This is common publishing practice. A couple of >my past books have gone into 2nd and 3rd editions as updates became necessary. > >However, if a publisher wished to wait until things were final, that would be >cool with me, so long as we had a firm agreement to do the book. > >You are just hearing of the "five year plan"? I have made no secret of that for >quite some time. I don't say that it will absolutely, positively take five >years. That is just a ballpark projection based on past experience, gut >feeling, and some industrial windage. > >Bob > Hi again Bob. You still haven't explained what the "five year plan" is. Please do it by detail. And do you mean to publish a book you don't even know if it has "facts" or is a scam? Do you mean to "clear it up later" to get some money up front??? I would certainly not buy a book that hasn't been throughly investigated BEFORE IT'S PUBLISHED... Jorgen / WUFOC Search for other documents from or mentioning: wufoc | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 US Congressman 'Connection' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 13:34:08 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:42:55 -0500 Subject: US Congressman 'Connection' D.J. Innes said; >> I don't want to appear brash, or insolent , and therefore I'm unsure if >> I should pursue this topic with him. Perhaps , your forum readers will >> have some suggestions for me as to what to do next , if anything ? >> Should I offer him documents ? If so , what documents ? Could this help >> to advance the "cause" to end Govt. secrecy? I have two more weeks of >> business with this gentleman. >> Any suggestions / thoughts would be appreciated. As a matter of fact, I do have a suggestion. I have been trying to get a special site set up whereby The People (That's you & me & James Oberg too) could have a voice in government. Actually, it would consist of a many level forum that would be available to pollsters and such. There would many areas and UFO would be one of them. I tried to get the domain thepeople.gov but due to rules and stuff like that there, was refused. I tried one last plea and some hope (ray of light at the end of the tunnel) surfaced. It is possible to get thepeople.gov but it requires a sponsor. Perhaps this will give you some ideas. Review the following two emails.... ========== Subject: GOV domain Sent: 1/9/97 11:23 AM To: domreg@internic.net Well, OK, We see it is a whole `nuther Country out here in cyberspace. We is da `Indians all over again and da Feds is herding us into cyberreservations. Ok, what about this little proposal... Let some Federal Agency SPONSOR a domain; THEPEOPLE.GOV Then, let them set up forums & Polls on all the specific areas of interest concerning the governing of The People. Let The People have voice in government in this way. (That was the idea anyway) Not some .org but a full fledged .gov site where all them Congress & Senate & Supreme Court & President types can get a bona fide consensus of how their boss, us, We The People want things done. Any problem with that? This is not a put down of any such private setup already, such as town halls etc. I know they try but We need a _direct input_ place that all Government has access to and is expected to purview. A place for The People to have voice independent of main$tream media. Oh yeah, one more thing, if this idea is given serious consideration and put into effect, I promise not to cuss and will be on my best behavior. ~Pat~ > >The "law" on the Internet is contained in RFC (Request For Comment) >documents. In the case of the GOV domain, two documents apply, >RFC 1591 which says in part: >GOV - This domain was originally intended for any kind of government > office or agency. More recently a decision was taken to > register only agencies of the US Federal government in this > domain. ============ Subject: thepeople.gov Sent: 1/15/97 5:47 PM Received: 1/15/97 6:18 PM From: horman, horman@darpa.mil To: pparri@republic.net >>> Let some Federal Agency SPONSOR a domain; THEPEOPLE.GOV >>> Then, let them set up forums & Polls on all the specific areas >>> of interest concerning the governing of The People. Let The >>> People have voice in government in this way. (That was the idea >>> anyway) I just wanted to let you know that you are being heard and your ideas have merit, at least in my mind. I'm on the FNC executive council, and if you indeed could find a federal agency to take this on, I'd be in favor of granting the domain name. The name, however, would be the least of the problems besetting such a venture. Speaking merely from a personal viewpoint, I'd think that some management might be necessary for validating that the responses do indeed come from US citizens, and that names are not forged -- - massive forgery is all too easy to accomplish with today's technology, unfortunately. And the process of choosing issues, announcing polling periods, etc. would required some staff involvement. But it might work. Of course, that doesn't mean that anyone in power could be forced to look at the results, but if the information was truly representative and if the issues were well-chosen, it could be a valuable communication method. Perhaps you could find an elected representative who would be willing to find some budget to cover the cost of an experiment along these lines. I'm afraid I'm merely a technologist in network research myself, so I can provide no further help. Hilarie Orman DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - Persinger? From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:06:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:44:30 -0500 Subject: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - Persinger? >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 10:49:37 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? >Corl Ribl=E9t writes, after watching a Discovery channel show on alien >abductions: >Was this Michael Persinger?=20 >If so, his hypothesis is built on a staggering series of assumptions and >guesses. He hasn't at all demonstrated that tectonic processes generate >the kind of electromagnetic fields that could account for the effects >he's demonstrated in the lab.=20 But the combination of his work and the tight concurrence of electromagnetic activity associated with geologic activity and UFO sightings in the US and UK are interesting. I suppose one could assume that UFOs cause geologic activity...<grin> >Nor has he shown why these effects could cause abduction imagery, as >opposed to hallucinations of other kinds.=20 He's shown that these effects can cause all sorts of imagery and sensation, some related to the abduction sub-theme and some not. Certainly doesn't explain so-called alien abductions but the coincidence is very interesting. >I've seen Persinger on TV, and he struck me as something of a crackpot, >despite his credentials and some impressive research into the >conjunction of earthquakes and UFO reports. I doubt he's a "crackpot," just looks that way because some folks have tried to make too much out of some very preliminary work of his.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 From AOL's Fact for a Day... From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:00:10 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:40:01 -0500 Subject: From AOL's Fact for a Day... >From AOL's Fact for a Day... Dear Cecil: Didn't Jimmy Carter once claim he had seen a UFO? Was he all by himself, or did other people see it too? Has there been any subsequent investigation? Was it a "real" UFO, or did Jimmy get snookered by swamp gas? --Rhoda A., Baltimore Dear Rhoda: Two guesses, kiddo. In a report filed with the Center for UFO Studies in Evanston, Illinois, Carter claimed to have seen his UFO in October, 1969, when he was running (unsuccessfully, at that point) for governor of Georgia. Being a shrewd politician even then, he didn't file his report until September, 1973 (hell, look what happened to Eagleton). It was around 7:15, shortly after dark, when Carter and a group of about 10 or 12 people spotted the alleged UFO over the countryside near Leary, Georgia. The object stood still in the sky for a period of ten or twelve minutes, slowly changing its color, size, and brightness, and then gradually retreated into the distance, disappearing from view. Carter estimated that the object, at its closest, was some 300 to 1,000 yards away. Later research, however, has cast grave doubts on the Big Peanut's credibility. Robert Sheaffer, a volunteer researcher for the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, reported in an issue of Zetetic magazine that what Carter actually saw on that fateful October eve was not a flying saucer, but the planet Venus, a notorious trickster in these matters. Nor was the fateful eve in October--apparently, during the four year gap between the incident and Carter's report, the President confused his dates. By checking the files of the Lion's Club chapter that Carter was scheduled to address that evening, Sheaffer discovered that that actual date was January 6, 1969--a night on which the planet would be sitting in precisely the spot where Carter saw his spaceship. "Either an extraterrestrial space vehicle was covering up Venus," Sheaffer concludes drily, "or Mr. Carter was looking at the planet." --CECIL ADAMS Copyright 1984-1996 Chicago Reader
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 CNN Story - 'Air Force Major Quits Post with UFO From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jan 97 14:42:07 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:47:00 -0500 Subject: CNN Story - 'Air Force Major Quits Post with UFO To All, This just came in to me and I wondered if anyone here knew anything about it. Anyone see this broadcast? Anyone here got any connections at CNN? geospen@aol.com (GEOSPEN) wrote: CNN reported last night (Headline News) that an Air force Major has left her top security clearance position with classified UFO documents and called several TV stations in the Denver area to go public with what she knows. The problem is this broadcast aired around 2:30 AM last night and has not been shown again!!! There has been NO other mention or repeat broadcast...obviously officials moved in lightning fast and got the report OFF the air! Anyway if anyone else saw this, post your response to this CLEAR government censorship of the truth. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 US Congressman 'Connection' From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:40:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:52:13 -0500 Subject: US Congressman 'Connection' Regarding D.J. Innes and his request for suggestions about "enlightening" his Congressman: You could give the Congressman a transcript of the recent interview with Gordon Cooper in the National Enquirer. Or if the Enquirer is too cheesy for his tastes, show him a copy of the FBI documents from the 1950s attesting to J. Edgar Hoover's concern over the UFO surveillance of the three sister cities of the the Manhattan Project: Los Alamos, N.M., Oak Ridge, TN., and Hanford, Washington. Or how about chapter 13 of the Fire Officer's Guide To Disaster Control entitled: "Enemy Attack and UFO Potential," in which the hazards of encountering an E.T. are discussed in some detail; or a copy of the textbook used up until recently at the Air Force Academy, where the existence of UFOs is not only acknowledged, but a foregone conclusion; you could play him the audio tape of the conversations between the Los Angeles and Edwards towers as a dozen or so UFOs buzzed the airbase when there were hundreds of visiting scientists around; or show him a copy of Britt and Lee Elder's documentaries about the ongoing flap south of the border: "Messengers of Destiny," and "Voyagers of the Sixth Sun," etc. It may take a little digging on your part, but there is ample proof out there--even of an official nature--that we are not alone. Happy hunting! Jerry Washington (SD KENTUCKY/MUFON)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:43:13 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:49:41 -0500 Subject: New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:45:57 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) >Subject: CORSO BOOK >Story of the Week >from http://www.cninews.com >NEW BOOK CLAIMS TO BLOW LID ON ROSWELL >If rumors are true, a high-level military figure is about to tell all he >knows about the famed 1947 Roswell incident, and that could be a lot. Colonel >Philip J. Corso reportedly served on President Eisenhower's National Security >Council and also headed the Foreign Technology Desk at the U.S. Army's >Research and Development Department. Corso's book, "The Day After Roswell," >(co-written with William J. Birnes) will be published in July by Pocket >Books, a division of Simon and Schuster. [snip] Why does anybody with a typewriter release their "tip blowing" info through a book instead of going on national TV and get the ease of themself - IF THEIR STORY IS TRUE! If this should be for real - do you really think oncel Sam would sit back and wait til July to clean the mess up? MONEY! PUBLISHERS! It stinks... Jorgen / WUFOC Information must be free and without charge to be credible.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jan 97 16:02:49 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:50:54 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 01:57:32 -0800 >From: Ed Stewart <egs@netcom.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology Ed Stewart, > The number you posted is >to the main archives. As it so happens, all film is kept at College Park >in Maryland and not at the main National Archives. An archivist >physically located miles and miles from College Park, Maryland, would >have extreme difficulty in assisting anyone with anything located at The number >you Wrong. The main archives can get you to the right archivist and branch for what you wish to search for. Film is kept at the Still Photo, Sound and Motion Picture Branch in College Park, the textual records are kept in the DC branch (among others). (The Supervisory Librarian there is Charles De Arman.) The Luis Alvarez statement is a textual record. So where do you think you would find it? Holdencamper was the person I spoke with, but I have spoken with others since, so I couldn't tell you if he is not there now. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Alien Abduction - Question From: Greg Turner <image_one@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:27:22 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:41:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction - Question > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:54:50 -0800 (PST) > From: MD <mdriscol@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Alien Abduction > Does anyone have knowledge of a listserv conference where "abductees" talk to > each other? > I'd love to know about it if you do. > Margaret Driscoll Greetings Margaret, My name is Britt I'me 46 years young and Yes, I'll be more than glad to exchange information re: abductions with you. I too have dream/real memories from my life. I have some excellent Web Sites in my bookmarks all dealing with this issue. If you would like I will email them to you. I look forward to hearing from you. Live in Light! Britt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:44:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:10:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:22:29 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in National > Enquirer > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Interviewed in National > Enquirer > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:36:14 -0700 > > Jacque herself is a bit of a mystery. She describes herself as > > being Irish (Republic) born and bred, but speaks with an upper > > crust British accent. She always seemed to be in pre-production > > on one project or another with her then partner Russ somebody > > (can't recall his last name), but never seemed to finish > > production on anything. I found it odd that during our meetings > > which usually took place at restaurants, she always picked up > > the tab and always paid in cash never requesting a receipt. > I don't know a lot about Jacque Dunne either but I do believe that the film > that you are speaking of was shot for Sam Sherman's project (which he is > still working on). I have seen the interview as well and it is interesting. > Russ' last name, I believe is Estes. > Perhaps Sam is on the list and would care to comment. > Thanks, > Rebecca Hi Rebecca! That seems to ring a bell. I used to have their business card, but it must have got lost in the shuffle between Sacramento and New Mexico. I recall that they maintained an office in the east Bay Area and another (I think) in Ventura. Jacque and this Russ fellow parted company shortly before the last meeting in which I participated. My part in all of this was that I put her in touch with a party who had information and physical evidence concerning a very strange location in Utah that could have played well into her stated objective or theme of the production. As to the Cooper interview, Yes most interesting indeed as well as somewhat shocking! Kindest Regards, Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jan 97 19:28:14 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:11:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 >Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:05:33 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Hill-Norton's NEXUS Vol 3 No.6 Oct - Nov 96 Letter Jorgen wrote, >This can be seen as he didn't want to reveal his knowledge, but I'm >convinced that he didn't have anything to go on from MoD. At his lecture he >only repeated old known material as by Jenny and Paul Fuller etc. >My point is - Mr. Pope seems to be another eager bookwriter with a somewhat >"childish" approach to the UFO-phenomena and bases his oppinion on other >UFOlogists findings instead of inside information of MoD, which also seems >to be none existence. But he bought me a nice whiskey thou... Indeed. I spoke with Nick Redfern tonight on what must be our most famous landing over in the UK, Rendlesham. He said that the only information that Nick had access to was a 4" file, consisting in the main of correspondance from the public, and the FOIA released 'Halt transcripts'. Odd, considering that Nick had the task of answering the correspondance with 'No defence significance'. Who originally came up with the lack of defence significance? And why couldn't an aircraft landing on British soil be considered such? Our view was that the best way to make sure there aren't any leaks is not to tell anyone. It may seem obvious, but governments have a habit of overlooking the obvious. In this case, Nick was saying the same as his predecessors. Now he's doing the same. James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Jan 97 19:35:06 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:12:19 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:04:18 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology Dear Rebecca, > Why Thank you for calling me two faced! I might have several names; however > that does not necessarily mean I am two faced. In fact, if I were two faced I > might put on a better one than this. <g> No, no, I wasn't calling you two-faced. That title actually comes from an article that I never finished writing about Ufology in general. Heck you are one of the few people that I have had a chance to meet and that I actually like and respect! I just thought I could use your response to Bob S. as a starting point. It seems to happen all over the field tho. (I'm still trying to figure out how the reports that Brazel found the debris at least a couple weeks before he reported it are addressed in the classic Roswell story, when it is claimed that the UFO didn't crash till the first week of July.) > Am I required by one these new rules in ufology to respond to every point? > Where are these rules posted anyway? That's a good question. I don't think I have seen them written down yet. But I have seen investigators/researchers refuse to investigate until the witnesses "prove" their story. That's new. Or that something is fake until proven real. That's new. I wonder how these things would work if they were applied to abduction reports, for instance. > > Aren't you afraid that someone might hear McGovern say on the TV program > > that colour film was highly recommended for medical procedures and believe > > that? > I'm not afraid of that at all. Do you want to share your findings about that? > If you know something: spit it out! Don't keep hinting around about things > you may or may not know. Bob put the specifics of it in his message. The reason it caught my attention was because he was the second person to come up with the same thing. And on the Discovery program they show some footage that is marked "Official Army Footage" of a medical procedure that is in B&W. If colour was the norm, I wonder why they couldn't show official footage in colour. Certainly would have gone further to prove their point. > Questions are always good. I think it is very important to get opinions of > ones peers and/or other experts when doing any kind of research. I have a fax that is a response from one of my queries to the National Archives about the Little Henry footage that is in the USAF section. It sorta leaves open the question of whether or not it was shot by the military, but has some other information in it. That information reads to me like even if it was filmed by a military cameraman, it could not possibly have been the alleged autopsy cameraman. I would like some opinions on it, but don't think I should post it here, since I didn't go there physically and view the footage myself. But I would like to forward the fax to you and get your opinion/interpretation of it. > Well, it is very early Thursday morning when I am sending this and hopefully > the list master will be able to meet the deadline. (Just Kidding, Errol!) Oh, that was just an FYI, advanced notice thingie. <G> In case anyone wondered later where I disappeared to. > I'm sure you will find the UFO Conference (if that is where > you are heading) to be a real eye opener. I am a little bit worried about it. I don't see any skeptics on the guest speaker list, and I like the balanced conferences. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:43:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:14:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 23:46:59 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Michael Christol commenting on Glenn Scheper reveals >Ezekiel's Wheels, was chickahominy when he said; >>I won't even go into the "creatures" in the object. > I wish you would. It would be refreshing to get this > Biblical Roswell case solved once & for all. Heck, > you know me, Mike, going where Angels fear to tread > is nothing out of the ordnary. > ~Pat~ Grin....Now Pat...I think this description as noted in Ezekiel is a case where the viewer of the "vision" could not distinguish the creatures from the vehicle. The fact that it uses symbolism in the description of the creatures is to me depicting a visual image of a "humanoid" with wings in the 'Up' position to indicate that it is of a Heavenly nature, and Wings Down, (four wings round about) indicating that it was also capable of dwelling on the surface of the planet. Another idea would be that the four wings connected would indicate that the Object itself is ROUND, with the creatures in the CENTER. In other words, the creatures moved within the center of the object...in other words in a 'cabin'. It also says that the creatures had four faces, which to me indicates the four cardinal points of the compass. In other words, not physical faces, but they looked or faced in four different directions at the same time...thus again indicating they were not able to separate the "likeness of a man" from his vehicle...or the four wings. The creatures had straight feet, and the "sole of the feet was like the sole of a calf's foot." Which could indicate that they wore shoes with a "sole" as we do. "They had the hands of a man," here again we see that these hands were "under their wings or within the craft. "The wings were joined ONE TO ANOTHER (my emphasis); they turned NOT when they went; they went every one straight forward." Typical of the way UFOs travel...i.e., in a straight line. I know, I know, many UFOs are also seen to do acrobatic maneuvers in the sky as well. But in this case, it descriptive of straight flight, in my humble opinion. <g> As for the description of the four faces, I am convinced that these four faces were symbolic of attributes applied to these beings. It was also described as moving as lightning. Which is very fast. When the wheels were lifted up, the creatures were also lifted up. When the wheels stood, the creatures stood as well. . There are numerous accounts throughout the Bible of objects flying in the sky....i.e., "flying scrolls", "a pillar of a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night." A "cloud around the top of Mt. Sinai", when Moses went up to commune with The Lord. In fact to quote from Exodus, Chapter 19, vs. 16, it says: "And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that the people that was in the camp trembled." These are just a few of the many references to aerial objects in the Bible. But, Pat, many people to day, find it Politically Incorrect to quote or paraphrase from a religious book, such as the Bible. In fact, I don't really think it is a 'religious book'. I think it is a historical account of the children of Israel who faced experiences in their daily lives which are just as applicable today as then. If we would only pay attention, we could save ourselves a lot of problems. <g> ``````````````````````````````````````` > * For those who choked on chickahominy it simply means > young chicken which translates to 'a little chicken' Hopefully, this little treatise will alleviate such notions. <g> ;-) REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:25:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:13:36 -0500 Subject: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels At 02:32 AM 1/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >From: Glenn Sheper <gscheper@gentech.com> >To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net>, >Subject: Re: Glenn Scheper reveals Ezekiel's Wheels >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:55:29 -0800 >To Michael Christol, via UFO UpDates - Toronto, >and to Daniel Wilson, via the paranormal list: >Thanks for your responses. >I must agree, my account is highly speculative. Hi Glenn. I appreciate your prespective on this subject. I agree that it is good to get it out before the public so they may thing about it and openly state their opinions and feelings. How else will they ever become aware of how old this phenomena is? >However, I have a reasonable assignment for just >about every word or phrase, from Ez 1:4, to 1:28. >Such a long correlation should pique every reader. I know that several years ago there was a drawing made by a NASA engineer based on his interpretation of Ezekiel. He had a large vehicle with four legs with propellers which were used to take off and land vertically. I don't have the drawing handy to double check the details of it. >Consider in particular for that characteristic image, >...the form and function of a wheel within a wheel..., >that the crankshaft fills the bill perfectly. I can understand what you are saying. However, I know that a disk with a spinning outer flange would also appear to be a "wheel within a wheel." The cabin or copula being round with port holes, or windows, from which emit an interior light. This could very well be interpreted as "eyes" round about. A counter rotating ring at the top of the copula would also give the appearance of a wheel spinning. If there is a "ball" or "condensor" on the top of the object, which drawa energy from the atmosphere, it to would probably appear to glow against the background of a dark night sky. We must remember that they had no technology or vocabulary to describe a mechanical vehicle. They had to relate it to something they were familiar with...thus, the wheel within a wheel. It does not have to be a virticle ring surrounded by a horizontal ring, or "ring gear and pinion" effect. However, I will admit this is one possibility. They did know about gears and cogs, as they used them in irrigation as well as grinding of wheat, etc. Of couse they used manpower as well as Horse, oxen, and camels to turn these devices. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Alien Abduction - Question From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:46:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:12:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction - Question Margaret, Re: >I first picked up Whitley Streiber's book, Communion, when it was first >out in paperback, and I think that was around 1985 or 1986, maybe a year >or two later. It has a lot of the same details as an experience I had >in 1970 when I was 15 years old. At the time, I regarded it as a "dream" >because there was nothing else to call it, but really, it was not dreamlike >except that it happened in my bedroom during the night. .... My first "encounter" happened when I was just four years old. Since that time I had many experiences but mostly remembered as vivid dreams...so vivid that they stand out above my ordinary experience. Reading Strieber's books and corresponding with him has helped me to understand that the experience was more "real" than dreamlike. I've had these experiences all throughout my life. But we tend to dismiss what doesn't fit with consensus as some sort of "dream." Yet my experience has not been confined just to ET encounters of the fourth kind. I've had numerous OOBEs(out of body), NDEs (near death...), RVs (remote viewing...), etc. I've been able to "validate" some of this experience as real when it has involved other people and places. I know of other "abductees" who have met others in "real-time" who they have seen while in ET settings. These experiences provide us with some sense of validation. I became a psychotherapist as a means to explore my own sanity. As a therapist trainee, I had access so some of the best therapists of our time. (I'm no longer a therapist. I had to move on with my own inner exploration.) I've been writing a thread here about "morphic resonance" and "morphic fields" which integrates vivid dreaming with Sheldrake's theories that all expreience occurs in "fields" rather than in a fixed location in time and space. I've completed most of what I will present as part 4 of this series, where I will include a vivid dream in which I meet with "abductees" in a UFO or ET (grey) spaceship. Following the dream, I met one of these persons in "ordinary" time, aka. "real-time." She confirmed that the dream was more "real" than dream. Vivid dreams are excursions into another "dimension" or level of reality... which some call "the third level of reality." I call it "the fifth dimension." It may not be "abduction" at all. Personally, to me, its more like "karma." Regards, Ernie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Ezekiel's Wheel (Part One) From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:15:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:15:37 -0500 Subject: Ezekiel's Wheel (Part One) To add to the discussion of Ezekiel's wheel, here are a couple of text files from the UpDates Archives here. Jean Van Gemerts posts appear to have been truncated by 'Page Splitter' during the orginal FidoNet transmissions - I've removed the orginal 'tween' message headers. ebk -------------------------------------------- From The Book of Ezekiel Eze1:1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. Eze1:2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of King Jehoiachin's captivity, Eze1:3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him. Eze1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Eze1:5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. Eze1:6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. Eze1:7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. Eze1:8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. Eze1:9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward. Eze1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. Eze1:11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies. Eze1:12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went. Eze1:13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. Eze1:14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning. Eze1:15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. Eze1:16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. Eze1:17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. Eze1:18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. Eze1:19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. Eze1:20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. ======================================================== And this from Jean Van Gemert: Date: 04-26-95 (12:18) Number: 87636 of 87819 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: JEAN VAN.GEMERT Subj: EZEKIELS UFO SIGHTING Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE (Echo) Conf: F-UFO (1356) Read Type: READING ALL (+) Hello, Since I do not know If my posts have been sent out because of some MAJOR problems in Holland with fido, I will repost this. This chapter is taken from the book: extraterrestrials in biblical prophecy. written by a retired english professor who taught at the university of North Dakota, Iowa etc. etc...... * The Book of Ezekiel: Ezekiel's Spaceship Odyssey * The story of the descent of the sky people is an im- memorial event in man's heritage. Time after time, in recorded documents the world over, we hear the same things: Beings looking much like us have come down from the heavens, met local inhabitants who were much impressed with these "gods" and "angels," visited briefly and before departing, left informa- tion of various kinds. Often this information is explanatory - it tells the people who they are, where they came from, their reason for being. Not surprisingly, it has served as both an im- petus and a matrix from which religion has grown. Sometimes it offers the Law or other moral teachings, as with Moses in the Pentateuch and Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita. The messages and visitations as such, whatever their nature, most often become interwoven into the fabric of not only religion but mythology, legend, tradition and general history as well. The visitation experiences themselves are almost always peaceful. The messages in a large number of cases offer knowledge of a prophetic or spiritual nature rather than simply practical, technical advice. They also often offer expressions of love and promises of the possibility for eternal life. Far less often, the motive for interaction appears to be simple fraternization. What is most remarkable is that the language used to describe these interactions, although originally couched in the local idiom and often obscured by etymological shifts in mean- ing, has so much in common. If we look at these accounts with 2Oth century space-age eyes (and a brain to match), we are not only struck with the similarity of description, but are led to a conclusion that would have seemed quite outlandish or unac- ceptably otherwordly to our recent skeptical ancestors who had not seen much, if any, evidence of extraterrestrial visitors with their own eyes. That conclusion is simply this. These ac- counts are descriptions of spacecraft shaped not unlike what we are are becoming familiar with in our skies today, and these biblical "gods" and "angels" are probably crew members of craft from other worlds. These craft descend from the heavens as "chariots of fire" with bright lights, thunder, smoke and flame accompanying them in what is often a tremendous sound and light show. Undoubtedly the best biblical description of spacecraft and visitation by extraterrestrials to the surface of this planet is found in the Book of Ezekiel. B. Le Poer Trench, P. Thomas, Morris K. Jessup, Maurice Chatelain, Virginia F. Brasington as well as Erich von Daniken have all recognized the importance of Ezekiel's account. Josef F. Blumrich, a NASA engineer, did a complete and thorough study of it (The Spaceships of Ezekiel). It could be said that even if no other book of Judeo- Christian scripture contained material that suggested extra- terrestrial contact with earth, and many most surely do, the Book of Ezekiel alone would give serious cause to contemplate the possibility of there having been such. Ezekiel, a rabbi, lived in a community called Tel-Abib on the Chebar River in Chaldea. He was a prisoner of King Nebuchadnezzar, as were many other Israelites who had been deported from their homeland and sent into captivity. Most of the tribes were methodically split up and scattered across Chaldea with some Hebrews still remaining in Jerusalem. The Book of Ezekiel begins in 593 or 592 B.C., roughly five years after his deportation. He has four encounters with our extra- terrestrial visitors, spanning a period of nineteen years. We are introduced to the first encounter immediately after Ezekiel sets the scene: As I looked, behold, a stormy wind came out of the north, and a great cloud, with brightness round about it, and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire, as it were gleaming bronze. And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the form of men, but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the sole of a calf's foot; and they sparkled like burnished bronze. Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. And the four had their faces and their wings thus: their wings touched one another; they went every one straight forward, without turning as they went. As for the likeness of their faces, each had the face of a man in front; the four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle at the back. Such were their faces. And their wings were spread out above; each creature had two wings, each of which touched the wing of another, while two covered their bodies. And each went straight forward; wherever the spirit would go, they went, without turning as they went. In the midst of the living creatures there was something that looked like burning coals of fire, like torches moving to and fro among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth light- ning. And the living creatures darted to and fro, like a flash of lightning. Now as I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel upon the earth beside the living creatures, one for each of the four of them. As for the appearance of the wheels and their construction: their appearance was like the gleaming of a chrysolite; and the four had the same likeness, their construction being as it were a wheel within a wheel. When they went, they went in any of their four directions without turning as they went. The four wheels had rims and they had spokes; and their rims were full of eyes round about. And when the living creatures went, the wheels went beside them; and when the living creatures rose from the earth, the wheels rose. Wherever the spirit would go, they went, and the wheels rose along with them; for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those rose from the earth, the wheels rose along with them; for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. Over the heads of the living creatures there was the likeness of a firmament, shining like crystal, spread out above their heads. And under the firmament their wings were stretched out straight, one toward another; and each creature had two wings covering its body. And when they went, I heard the sound of their wings like the sound of many waters, like the thunder of the Almighty, a sound of tumult like the sound of a host; when they stood still, they let down their wings. And there came a voice from above the firmament over their heads; when they stood still, they let down their wings. And above the firmament over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness as it were of a human form. And upward from what had the ap- pearance of his loins I saw as it were gleaming bronze, like the appearance of fire enclosed round about; and down- ward from what had the appearance of his loins I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and there was brightness round about him. Like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard the voice of one speaking. 1:4-28 What is happening here? It is necessary for us to try to put ourselves in the mind of a sixth century B.C. rabbi who has no conception of mechanical, technological marvels. He is a careful, capable observer but he must use language and make associations that are familiar to him while trying to define very unfamiliar things. His native language completely lacks the technical vocabulary he needs, and he is forced by these strange, unknown pheonomena to become a comparative, figurative thinker and writer if he is to communicate effectively at all. We cannot emphasize the fact too much that before the coming of our technological age, beginning with the Industrial Revo- lution of the Western World, there was an almost total absence in most cultures of the kind of language Ezekiel needed to describe his experiences, which often led men to misconstrue what they saw into oversimplified versions of what they already believed, prompting them to substitute for the unknown their own familiar gods and devils.(1) Ezekiel's great chore, then, is to find a choice of words which will be adequate, at least obliquely, to his task, words which will describe effectively to his contem- poraries what he saw and make them understand that which neither he nor they have ever before experienced. No mean task that. And yet it is the same task all the prophets faced who tried to translate their extraterrestrial experiences into the language of the masses. This is the introduction taken from the book: extraterrestrials in biblical prophecy..... Sixteen years ago a NASA engineer by the name of Josef- F. Blumrich, after reading some of Erich von Daniken's work picked up the Bible and turned to the Book of Ezekiel. He was intent on refuting von Daniken's idea that the Bible contained evidence of extraterrestrial visitations to earth in ancient times and that the Book of Ezekiel was a case in point. The result of his investigation was published as a book, The Spaceships of Ezekiel. Blumrich, much to his surprise, became convinced that the Book of Ezekiel is a very accurate literal description of several spaceship landings and of the craft them- selves, albeit with the language limitations of Ezekiel's day. Von Daniken, it would seem, more than anyone else, has spur- red along the spirit of inquiry in the search for evidence of an- cient astronauts. In fact, it was not very long ago that he men- tioned the need for a more extensive investigation of biblical scripture for evidence of extraterrestrial contact with biblical- man. To my knowledge, a handful or more of such works have been attempted in the past decade or so. Almost all of them, however, suffer from one or more of several shortcomings. Some are too superficial and incomplete to qualify as well re- searched works. Some offer preconceived conclusions due to their author's bias and end up little more than a forum for re- ligious sermonizing. And almost all of them fail to grasp the interrelationship between ancient and present-day UFOs and scriptural prophecy and what that means for us today. Some interesting earlier work was done, nevertheless. And some speculations were made in the past that are perti- nent today. Most notably, Alexander Kazantsev, a Russian astronomer, and M. Agrest, a Soviet physicist, suggested in the early 1960's that biblical angels could be astronauts from space. Morris K. Jessup, the indefatigable UFO investigator published in the 50's his "The UFO and the Bible." B. Le Poer Trench came out with "The Sky People" in 1960 which specu- lated that the biblical angels act very much like astronauts. The same idea was reiterated by P. Thomas (pseudonym for P. Misraki) in "Les Extraterrestres" (1962). The first edition of Rev. Barry H. Downing's laudable "The Bible and Flying Saucers" ap- peared in 1968. More recently, Jean Sendy's "Those Gods Who Made Heaven and Earth" appeared in an English translation in 1972 and W. Raymond Drake's "Gods and Spacemen in the An- cient east" in 1973 and "Gods and Spacemen in Ancient Israel in 1976. Maurice Chatelain, another NASA employee, wrote "Our Ancestors Came From Outer Space" (1977), which confirms his own research that we have been visited by extraterrestrials in the distant past, and the Rev. Virginia F. Brasington published a short but insightful work, "Flying scaucers in the Bible (last edition, 1982). Unfortunately, all these works, except Down ing's, as far as I know, are out of print and difficult to obtain One exceptional work, actually three works in one, is Zecharia Sitchin's The Earth Chronicles which consists of "The 12th Planet" (1976), "The Stairway to Heaven" (1980) and "The Wars of Gods and Men" (1985). It is Sitchin's pioneering work in Sumerology, his discovery of the strong extraterrestrial pre- sence in many Sumerian-Babylonian tablets and his decipher- ing and tracing of pictographic, cuneiform and Semitic termi- nology for spacecrafts and spaceflight accouterments that have helped me greatly in recognizing the interrelationship between events in that part of the Middle East and later events in the Judeo-Christian scriptures, including events to come dcscribed in the prophecies. It is also Sitchin's work which has helped me see the correspondence between the Sumerian-Babylonian planet Nibiru (Marduk), which makes, ac- cording to him, an approximate 3,600 year orbit of our sun, and St. John's Wormwood of Revelation. As far as I know, I am the first to recognize that correspondence. If Sitchin's calculations are accurate, and the correspondence does in fact exist, then our planet is soon to be wracked (and wrecked) by earth changes of overwhelming intensity. This is not the first work to offer the idea that Jesus of Nazareth was (is) either a messiah-astronaut or, at the very least, working closely with extraterrestrial visitors to the- planet. Although assertions of this kind have been made in- passing by several authors, this is also, as far as I know, the first work which attempts a detailed, extensive textual analy- sis of the Judeo-Christian scriptures in support of such ideas. And it will come as a surprise to many people, I am sure, that the textual evidence seems overwhelmingly to support such contentions. My research is offered with the full knowledge that theo- logians as a group are adverse to the idea of someone poking around in the sacrosanct with a new way of looking at things. Even our "hard scientists," except for a few stalwarts like Harley D. Rutledge, have until recently avoided anything that smacks of UFOs with dread, as if such an interest is profes- sional suicide, the bite of the self-applied asp. That attitude is slowly changing as an avalanche of new material appears almost daily, pointing to the fact that something is indeed go- ing on in the sky and that it is purposefully affecting us on earth in a ratio that seems to have something to do with our ability to become acclimated to its existence. But more import- antly, the intensification of the phenomenon seems to grow greater as world events move closer to the prophesied final days of "end time," and few people, scientists, theologians and otherwise, are making the mental correlation between this in creased UFO activity and the Old and New Testament pro- phecies concerning those days. The sound reasons for making that correlation are most often either missed completely or misunderstood. At any rate, von Daniken's suggestion made sense to me. I
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Ezekiel's Wheel (Part Two) From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:17:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:17:45 -0500 Subject: Ezekiel's Wheel (Part Two) Part Two. I wondered how so many people over the years could have failed to see what I was finding. For awhile, it was hard for me to conceive of the notion that all this material could have been missed. Was there some kind of flagrant conspiracy among scientists and religious scholars to avoid the implications of this extensive and compelling data? Gradually, I saw what I thought was wrong. I began to realize just how true the old bromide is that says we see what we expect to see or what we have been trained to see. And until our space technology open- ed our eyes to greater possibilities, and the reality of present- day UFOs became more established in the general conscious- ness, we just were not ready to accept, or even entertain, cer- tain possibilities. Add to this the fact that people in generaI resist change, in spite of their claims to the contrary, especial- ly when that change threatens their preconceived ideas of reality or the prepackaged ideas of religion and life that they have been taught in school or church or picked up incidentally elsewhere - and it becomes possible to understand why so lit- tle solid research has been done in this area. Just what did I find in the Judeo-Christian scriptures, and particularly in the Old Testament, that suggests visitations to earth by ancient astronauts? I found considerable evidence. that Moses, Enoch, Noah, Elijah, Jacob, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Zechariah and probably others, including Jesus and St. John, had contact with extraterrestrial visitors. They not only had contact but often described the craft and their visitors in. detail. Not fully understanding the wonderful things they were seeing, they came to the logical conclusion that their visitors were an incarnation of the Godhead and his helpers, the angels. Sometimes, overawed at the phenomena descending from the sky, they interpreted even the spacecrafts themselves as be- ing either God or angels. For reasons of expediency, with a few exceptions, the visitors made little attempt to disabuse them of their mistakes of identity. These visitors, it would seem, were more concerned with carrying out their mission(s) than explaining themselves and their technology. What was that mission? If we take a quick overview of all biblical prophecy, it becomes clearer. Our visi- tors were intent upon passing on to man, through chosen spokesmen (the prophets), moral and practical advice and in- formation for the more orderly development of human society. They also passed on many warnings, including apocalyptic descriptions of the "end time" scenario, which would most like- ly happen if mankind did not put its act in order. And they- seem to have been able to foresee the future, to calculate probabilities in a way we do not yet understand. Our visitors, then, often acted like overseers involved more than tangential- ly in the affairs of men. Our visitors also seemed to be acting from some kind of moral imperative, directed by an authority greater than them- selves (if we are to believe their own words), a Greater God, that sent them as messengers to mankind as carriers of cosmic law, of the Word. They could, of course, have been spoofing us passing off their own ideas for their own sake, but there seems little, if any, evidence to substantiate such a suspicious claim. No doubt, radioactive or other highly dangerous material is being removed from what is most likely the main reactor. A mechanical arm attached to the helicopter-like appendages (that are referred to as "cherubim") reaches out, picks up some "fire" and gives it to the man in the protective ("linen") suit. He - is told to "scatter them over the city." Needless to say, scattering this material would do the city no good. If it is radioactive, it is lethal. And that appears to be precisely the idea. In the immediately preceding verses we've seen men sent to the city to slay the unrighteous with weapons that seem unfamiliar to Ezekiel. Could this be further punish- ment? The circumstances suggest so. If the city is not to receive a full-scale nuclear blast as seems to have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, it will receive radioactive poisoning which in its own way is just as deadly. The nagging question persists. Is this a picture of the past or a look into the future, to our day and "end time"? And the Spirit lifted me up and brought me in the vision by the Spirit of God into Chalde'a, to the exiles. Then the vision that I had seen went up from me. And I told the ex- iles all the things that the Lord had showed me. 11:24-25 Ezekiel is flown back once again to his fellow exiles living along the Chebar river. Every time the phrases "the spirit lifted me up" and "in the vision of God" are used, the prophet is taken for a ride in a spacecraft. This time, upon his return, he tells the exiles what he has seen, what, in fact, he has been commanded to tell them. We suspect again that these cosmo- nauts are somehow able to read the future and know that Ezekiel's experience will not only be related to the exiles as a warning to practice righteous living but also be passed on in manuscript form even to the present age, perhaps as a warning to us that the prophecies are applicable to it as well, and that there have been visitors from other worlds long ago who look- ed like man and had a strong active interest in the affairs of earth. Nineteen years later, and twenty years after his first en- counter, Ezekiel has his final meeting with our visitors: ...the hand of the Lord was upon me, and brought me in the visions of God into the land of Israel, and set me down upon a very high mountain, on which was a structure like a city opposite me. When he brought me there, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like bronze, with a line of flax and a measuring reed in his hand; and he was stand- ing in the gateway. And the man said to me, "Son of man, look with your eyes, and hear with your ears, and set your mind upon all that I shall show you, for you were brought here in order that I might show it to you; declare all that you see to the house of Israel." 40:1-4 Once again he describes what he sees in flight as compar- able to the seeing of God who moves naturally through the air (recall the Merkabah, the flying throne of God). He calls the commander simply "he," not "god" or "the Lord." The landing is made on a mountain near a city-like structuring of buildings. A guide, wearing a metallic looking spacesuit, gives him a tour of the temple complex. He is ordered by his guide to remember what he experiences and faithfully report it to "the house of Israel." This brings us to several more perplexing questions. If these passages are intended to refer to the Mount of Olives and Solomon's Temple, historical time problems arise. Solo- mon's Temple was destroyed in 586 B.C., five years after Ezekiel's third encounter and roughly fourteen years before. the fourth encounter. The temple described for us here was never built. When the temple in Jerusalem was rebuilt, no at- tempt was made to build it according to the lineaments given here. So where exactly did Ezekiel land? And what temple is this? Is it the temple of the future to be rebuilt during "end time"? (See Dan 9:25) Are we getting a glimpse into a future world once again? Ezekiel is brought into the inner court of the temple: While the man was standing beside me, I heard one speaking to me out of the temple; and he said to me, "Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the peo- ple of Israel for ever. And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their harlotry, and by the dead bodies of their kings...." 43:6-7 It is possible that this scene, just as the destruction of the city (Jerusalem?) in the third encounter, is a leap into the future. In other words, it is happening to the prophet, the spaceflight and structures and temple are real enough, tangible, but they are a planned time-warp experience that the prophet is to remember, to "declare all that you see to the house of Israel" (40:4) and, we might add, to the world of the future by word and manuscript. After all, it is a fact that Ezekiel was in captivity and never was able to physically carry the word to the scattered tribes - not in his time. But the Book of Ezekiel does carry the word worldwide in future time. What we have described here could also be the temple of the post Armageddon Jerusalem established after the "end time," situated either in Jerusalem or on Mt.Sinai or some- where else nearby. If so, we have extraterrestrial visitors very much involved with events then and to come. This means- logically, that they could be expected to reappear or appear continuously or periodically throughout the passage of history from then until now and into the future. And, not surprisingly there is abundant evidence, for those objective enough to give it a fair hearing, of all of the above possibilities, except the lat- ter, having been fulfilled - and the future isn't here yet. We might well expect to see even more of our visitors soon. We will end this inquiry into the Book of Ezekiel with a brief look at the landing of the spacecraft just prior to the pro- phet's entrance into the inner court of the temple. Either another spacecraft is in the process of landing or this is the same craft that discharged Ezekiel a short time before, flew off and has now returned: Afterward he brought me to the gate, the gate facing east. And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the east; and the sound of his coming was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with his glory. And the vision I saw was like the vision which I had seen when he came to destroy the city, and like the vision which I had seen by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face. As the glory of the Lord entered the temple by the gate facing east, the Spirit lifted me up, and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple. 43:1-5 The same words, "sound of many waters," is used earlier in chapter one, verse twenty-four, to describe the sound of the helicopter-like appendages and the movement of their blades. And the same combination of words can be found later in Reve- lation 1:15 used to describe the sound emanating from a space craft. Ezekiel comments that what he is seeing is a vision "like the vision which I had seen by the river Chebar." He is certain he is seeing the same thing again and again. Then he is lifted up by some kind of levitation device or one man jet propulsion pack and set down in the inner court. Blumrich, the trained NASA engineer who began his search for evidence of UFOs in the Book of Ezekiel with great skepticism, came to the conclusion that he had proved, at least convincingly to himself, that Ezekiel had really, after all, en- countered spaceships, that the prophet's technical descrip- tions, given the language limitations of his day, were very careful and accurate as were the descriptions of the events related to them. He did assume that the non-technical parts of Ezekiel's accounts were "visions." These happen frequently during the periods between the prophet's spaceship en- counters and are often prefaced with the phrase "The word of the Lord came to me," different phraseology from those several used to introduce the spacecraft descriptions and his journeys by air. It is possible, however, that these interstitial "visions" are telepathic transmissions, a type of "vision" that all the Judeo-Christian prophets may have had, whether or not they experienced actual physical contact at any time with our visitors, and should be categorized separately because they stand apart distinctly and have a different aura about them compared to the more technical, tangibly descriptive accounts exemplified by Ezekiel's four close encounters. The Book of Ezekiel ends rather suddenly, without men- tion of a return flight after his fourth close encounter, and is probably in fragmented form.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Jan 97 06:57:47 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:46:29 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 02:04:35 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology Dear Rebecca, > Does this video have a name, number or something? Is it commercially > available or is from a TV Show? If from a TV show, can you tell us which one? I failed to record the name on the video I recorded from the Discovery TV show. So scratch that one till I can find it again. The other place that the same footage occurs is on the videos called "UFOs: The Best Evidence" (c)1994 Altamira Broadcast. That one many people may have. >You could have saved a lot of wasted time by saying you had some footage way >back whenever this began being talked about. What was being talked about is whether there were planes in the air. Unless I actually purchase the footages from the archives, I won't know if it is the same or not. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:10:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:45:27 -0500 Subject: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? Hi all, I've just received #10 of Infinite Energy magazine and a short paragraph in the editorial caught my attention. ".... Off in Yellow Springs, Ohio, John Schnurer seems to have confirmed the "gravity shield" effect in high-temperature superconductors. We don't have an article about this issue, but in Infinite Energy #9, we reported the development, which apparently started in Finland and now has NASA struggling to keep up. Yes, NASA is going to try it with a larger HTSC disc. Meanwhile Schnurer has already filed a patent application for this effect, which, if real, is already in the several percent weight reduction range Do we know enough about gravity to say this can't be done? I think not. We'll have more to tell you about this as soon as the inventor can release details. He's hell-bent to sell demonstration kits. Buy one to go with your table top nuclear reactor [referring to the cover article of IE #10 where details are given on Clean Energy Technologies Inc. renting out clean, safe, table-top research reactors for only $3750 per year http://www.cleanenergy.com/ceti ]....." Eugene Mallove, Sc.D Editor Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 CNI News -- SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT -- January 16, 1997 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:50:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:50:57 -0500 Subject: CNI News -- SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT -- January 16, 1997 The following is worth the price of a subscription to CNI News! Support Michael's work, subscribe to CNI News. ebk --------------------------------------------------------- From: CNINews1@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:47:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: CNI News -- SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT -- January 16, 1997 ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== CNI News -- SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT -- January 16, 1997 Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== This is a Special Supplement to CNI News Vol. 2 No. 21, reporting on an important story that broke after the regular edition of CNI News had been prepared for delivery. The subject matter of CNI News is inherently controversial, and the views and opinions reported herein are not necessarily those of the editorial staff. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== EXTRA! COURTNEY BROWN SPEAKS ON HALE-BOPP PHOTO HOAX Farsight Institute Head Defends "Mystery Astronomer," Says Remote Viewing of "Companion" Object Will Prove True On January 14, a photo attributed to a "mystery astronomer" and purporting to show a "companion object" near Comet Hale-Bopp was posted on the web sites of radio personality Art Bell and author Whitley Strieber. This was the long-awaited photo given to Bell and Strieber by remote viewer Dr. Courtney Brown, first mentioned by Brown and his Farsight Institute employee Prudence Calabrese on Art Bell's nationally syndicated radio program on November 29, 1996 [see CNI News vol 2, no. 18 of Dec 1]. On that show, Brown and Calabrese claimed that remote viewing of Hale-Bopp showed the companion object to be huge and "sentient," possibly a "planet-sized spacecraft." They also said they believed the "mystery astronomer" would come forward within a few weeks to confirm the existence of the companion. However, just one day after the photo was posted, it was shown to be a hoax, casting grave suspicion on the "mystery astronomer" and on the remote viewing efforts of the Farsight Institute. The fraudulent nature of the photo was demonstrated on James Neff's Enigma web site, www.anc.net/~neff/fake.html. Neff announced that the fake was a doctored version of a legitimate Hale-Bopp photo taken on September 1, 1995 by astronomer David Tholen using a University of Hawaii telescope. The fraud was actually discovered by Oliver Hainaut of the University Astronomy Lab. CNI News Editor Michael Lindemann reached Dr. Courtney Brown by telephone on Thursday afternoon, January 16 to get his reaction to these startling developments. Thanks to Courtney Brown for permission to post these excerpts from their conversation: Michael Lindemann: Courtney, can you tell me your view of what's happened? Courtney Brown: Sure, I can tell you the whole story. Basically, we were told in advance this would happen. My employees have some very good contacts. When the Shramek picture came out [showing a possible second object near the comet], we called around to see if anybody had heard of such a thing. When we got some indications that there was such a thing, we targeted the thing. The results are on our web site. Then about a week and a half later, an astrophysicist we had talked to, someone we know, sent us three rolls of film, with pictures we had to develop. He said, "This is just for yourself, for your own internal staff, to help you." He said he appreciated us for having alerted him to this. He had started getting information from other colleagues and offered us some of the photographs. So we gladly accepted, and we encouraged him to come out. And he was very excited about the whole thing, and said he was probably going to come out in a week, after the Art Bell show. Well, he never came out, and he stopped returning my phone calls, but we assumed he was just continuing to work on this, and in fact I really think that's what happened. I think he's very concerned about everything, inluding whether he's been duped, because at least one of the pictures appears to have been doctored and is being called a fraud. We were given the raw film, not a scanned image. We developed the film at a camera shop, and that's what we scanned in -- not a web photo. ML: Have you looked at the photo that's been posted by Whitley Strieber and Art Bell? Is that the photo you sent them? CB: Yes, it looks like the photo we sent. We just heard about this last night. We haven't made a star by star comparison. To tell the truth, we've been so thunderstruck... It's upset Prudence so much that she's gone into premature labor and is in the hospital right now. We're talking about someone [the astronomer] she's taken courses with, a confidante and advisor -- and you know, you don't get cheated by someone like that. We know for sure -- we've caught people in the act -- that our phone and fax are bugged. Someone is listening to our phones and found out who we were calling to get corroboration. And academics are pretty naive when it comes to magicians and infiltrators. We're pretty good at analysing data, but we have to assume there are no foul deeds in giving us the data. And he [the astronomer] is just like me, just an academic, you know? And he's gotten data from all over and given us some of it. Now I think they're going to make a big deal on the Art Bell show about whether I personally said that this guy took the photo or was given the photo. At that time, it was a little ambiguous with the guy himself. I might have misspoken that he took it, but the reality is, he was getting information from all different sources. ML: So you don't know the original source of this photo, correct? CB: He got a whole package of information from lots of sources, and I don't know the source of any of it, other than the fact that his credibility is absolutely stellar, sterling. He wouldn't be collecting bad information, nor getting it from bad sources. Some of the information he got from his own stuff -- what does that mean, his graduate students, his own observations, his lab? -- but a lot of it came from other sources. What I think happened is, somebody knew we were doing this. Two days ago we were reminded, believe it or not, by one of our contacts, "Get ready, you are in the middle of a disinformation campaign, a really big one." And then we woke up this morning and heard this. Our contacts are really accurate. ML: So you just heard this this morning? CB: Yes, Art Bell called me at about 10:30 this morning. So, this is why the UFO field is so messed up, because it's so easy to discredit stuff. Somebody is trying to discredit the remote viewing stuff. They slipped us, I think innocently through that astronomer -- I don't think he meant to do us harm -- and he just passed it to us as something interesting, and then he continued to look at it, probably found some incongruities, and that may be why he hasn't come out. But somebody wanted to discredit us, and they haven't been able to discredit us with regard to the remote viewing, so they'll try to discredit us with regard to a picture that has nothing to do with our remote viewing, but which had a huge stink made out of it in the media. We didn't use that picture for targeting, or for anything, except to say that it was given to us by an astronomer when we asked if he's heard anything about the Hale Bopp thing. Just because someone has created a fraudulent picture doesn't mean the actual thing doesn't exist. But this was done to discredit what we're doing, and it was done very cleverly, hooked in to a very impeccable source. Somebody who had the ability knew what they were doing in doing this. Somebody wants this shut up, and they're willing to do anything, including trying to destroy us. So there will be a big media splash, lots of negative stuff is going to be said about us. But we're not going to collapse. We're going to come through this thing, we know that for a fact, and we will get a lot of positive publicity in the near future. But right now it's a storm. You know it's very easy to get set up in this business. It's been happening from Roswell on. And we're vulnerable to this. We get remote viewing data and then we try to find out some feedback, and it's just natural that someone could feed us bad feedback. That does not invalidate the remote viewing data, but in the public's eyes, it means throw the whole thing out. ML: Once again, is it correct that the image now posted on the internet which shows four large white objects grouped together is an image that came to you on undeveloped film? CB: Yes it is, and we had that film developed. ML: So there were other images on the film too, presumably, which you never did circulate? CB: There were three rolls of film, and out of those three rolls there were about six really good photos. ML: And do all of them show images like the one we've now seen? CB: Yes, similar stuff. ML: It would be interesting at this stage to know if the other images that you have not circulated could be correlated to other shots that, for example, may have come from the Hawaii observatory that this one seems to have come from. CB: What's weird is, this was film... ML: And the mystery astronomer is not returning your phone calls? CB: Well, he might not be returning our phone calls because he's scared of getting sucked into this thing. He's got such a good reputation, I just can't believe it's what people are thinking. People are thinking either he's a fraud, or we're a fraud. I know we're not fraudulent. And he told us, "Please don't put these out to anyone." So initially, I thought it was a moral and ethical violation of trust for Art Bell and Whitley to have posted the photographs. When they were initially given the photos, they promised not to do it. But I can't reveal that astronomer's name. Either he's been snookered himself -- and he's got to deal with the pain of that, the pain it's causing us -- or he's snookering us, in which case, if I reveal his name, I'm dealing with a libel suit. The only thing he has to say is, "Me? I didn't do that." In which case, we're sued, and we're out of business. However, I can't judge which one is true, although I think he's been taken advantage of. But why he's not talking to us, taking our calls, I don't know. He's a personal friend of Prudence... ML: So Prudence was the liaison on this? CB: We're trying to get her out of this. She did not want to go on the Art Bell show to begin with, did not want to talk about the photos. Art Bell asked her to do it, I encouraged her, Whitley encouraged her -- so she finally did it. She is not going on Art Bell again. She's already gone into premature labor over this thing. We're not going to drag her into this any more. They would love to just bury her. ML: I am already hearing the opinion that she is the culprit. CB: I'm telling you point blank, that is not the case. Someone did this purposely to us. And they're going after the weakest link. The weakest link is Prudence. She's my employee. She does what I ask her to do. ML: Did you do a background check on her? CB: I know all about her. ML: Did you know her before she came to Farsight? CB: No, I met her in 1996. She's an outstanding web designer. I know her very well, and her husband. There's no doubt in my mind. I know her as well as most employers know any of their employees. That's not the issue. The issue is, where did this stuff come from. ML: At what point would you feel it's appropriate to give the astronomer's identity? CB: Never, because we could be sued. We can't reveal his identity -- nor could you. Something like this, where the person's career is going to be destroyed if his identity is made known by anyone but himself, cannot be done. ML: At some point, if the man refuses to talk to you... CB: Why does it matter? If it's a fake photograph, it's a fake photograph... ML: No, it does matter, because people have to be held accountable, and if this gentleman doesn't want to be held accountable.... CB: He twice told us not to give it [the photo] out, and we made the mistake of giving it out. He has to be held accountable for that? ML: So he said, "Don't give this to ANYBODY"? CB: He said, "Don't give this to anybody except your very close inner people, just to look at. I don't want it anywhere outside. I want to look at it myself for awhile." And we gave it to Whitley and Art, and they said they wouldn't show it to anybody. Then it showed up on the web sites two months later, after they reinterpreted the original agreement, from "Don't show it to anybody" to "Wait a reasonable amount of time." There was no "reasonable amount of time" in the beginning. Art's perspective is, well, it's a damn good thing we put it up, because now we know it's a fraud. But there's a double-edged sword to that. You find out it's a fraud, OK. But what good is it? It was never claimed... by the only person who could have claimed its authenticity, it was never claimed to be authentic. He just gave it to us as something to look at, perhaps to help our targeting, and specifically said do not give it out. We made the mistake of giving it out. ML: What is your next move? CB: We were told this was going to happen, and we were told to ignore all the bad things that will be said about us. ML: What kind of sources tell you this? CB: I can't say. But they've not been wrong once... And then what's going to happen is, the ET's are going to do something. See, this Hale-Bopp thing, it's not us. They were the ones who came, not us. Besides, even if you throw away this picture, you can't throw away all the other pictures -- the Shramek picture, the Japanese observatory picture. This Hale-Bopp thing is here for a reason. And they're showing themselves for a reason. It's just a matter of time before something else happens. The remote viewing will be shown as correct. That much I'm sure of. The thing has nothing to do with Prudence. The whole issue is, is our remote viewing correct? And if this photograph is a fraud, then so what? It doesn't make the remote viewing incorrect. All we have to do is wait and see what that object does next. That's it. [end of transcript] CNI News will continue to report on this developing story. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== Except as otherwise noted, the entire text of CNI News is copyright 1997 by the 2020 Group. As a condition of receiving CNI News, all recipients agree not to post CNI News on any Newsgroup, Web site, BBS or similar electronic location, nor redistribute CNI News by any electronic means, except for the express purpose of encouraging others to subscribe, or unless with prior permission of the editor. In general, electronic posting or redistribution of single articles or short excerpts from CNI News will be approved, provided credit is given to the author and CNI News in every instance. Hard copy (paper) reproduction and redistribution of CNI News, in whole or part, for educational purposes is permitted.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 MindNet Journal - Vol. 1, No. 99 From: vericomm@c2.net Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:42:51 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:47:45 -0500 Subject: MindNet Journal - Vol. 1, No. 99 ================================================================ MindNet Journal - Vol. 1, No. 99 ================================================================ V E R I C O M M sm "Quid veritas est?" ================================================================ Sender: Owner-MindNet@c2.org Precedence: bulk The views and opinions expressed below are not necessarily the views and opinions of VERICOMM or the editors, unless otherwise noted. The following is reproduced here with the express permission of the author. Permission is given to reproduce and redistribute, for non-commercial purposes only, provided this information and the copy remain intact and unaltered. Copy formatted in ASCII. Netscape mail reader format: "Options/Mail & News Preferences/Appearance" = Fixed Width Font. Editor's Note: The following is an excerpt from a work in progress. The author, Martin Cannon, a writer and artist, lives in the Los Angeles area. ================================================================ THE PRE-HISTORY OF MKULTRA By Martin Cannon January 1997 ---------------------------------------------------------------- The concept of mind control strikes most people as either futuristic or fabulous. In fact, human beings have employed effective thought-processing techniques ever since the first oligarches sought to exploit their underlings, ever since the first mystics sought communion with their deities, ever since man first sought to understand his inner self. Mind control, broadly defined, has been with us in one form or another since the beginning of civilization. The Mushroom Warriors Arguably, the Russians really were the first brainwashers, just as the propagandists of the 1950s alleged. 4500 years ago, the Koyak and Wiros tribes of the central Russian steppes conducted what may be the first experiments in stimulating violence through the use of drugs. They derived from the Amanita muscaria mushroom a drug which reduced the warrior's anxiety and fear while increasing his strength, stamina, mental acuity, and ability to withstand pain. The shamans hit upon a noteworthy method of increasing the drug's potency: The mushroom was first fed to reindeer, and the soldiers would drink the animals' urine on the eve of battle. Viking warriors also depended on chemical stimulants derived from deer urine. (Today's soldiers should ponder this history before complaining about their MREs.) Combatants in India relied on similar drugs, as did Native American tribes of the Southwest. Incan warriors made use of the coca leaf. The tradition continues today: In Vietnam, soldiers sought relief in a veritable pharma-cornucopia, which offered everything from marijuana to heroin. The warring tribes of Somalia, Rwanda and Liberia all routinely partake of the locally-preferred narcotics. In all ancient cultures, the shaman prepared for healing work by retreating to a cave, or some other quiet, intensely dark environment -- a sensory deprivation chamber, if you will. Magic could occur only after prolonged sessions of drumming and chanting: rhythmic sound stimulation. The shaman would visualize descent into a lower world, just as a modern hypnotherapist might use "falling" imagery during trance induction. As William Sargant, a British psychiatrist, said of these ancient rituals: "Some persons can produce a state of trance and dissociation in themselves, or in others, with a decreasing need for strong and repeated emotional stresses, until it may become so much a conditioned pattern of brain activity that it occurs with only minor stresses and difficulties; for example, in the primitive religious context, at the renewed beat of a drum, or the screaming roar of the rhombos... If the trance is accompanied by a state of mental dissociation, the person experiencing it can be profoundly influenced in his subsequent thinking and behavior." Students of occult history maintain that the heirophants of the ancient Egyptian mystery schools practiced a strikingly-advanced form of hypnosis, in which initiates entered profound trances, triggering what we would today call an out-of-body-experience. Even modern-day, scientifically-oriented hypnotists recognize their debt to the Aesculapian priests of ancient Greece, who practiced a hypnosis-based form of medicine and behavior modification they called "dream healing." The oracles of ancient Greece, through the breathing of certain vapors and the imbibing of certain liquids, dwelt within an altered state, as did, to varying degrees, those who participated in the mysteries. Sargant does not hesitate to use the term "brainwashing" to describe the rites of the Oracle of Triphonius. During these mysteries, the initiate experienced sensory deprivation, sudden confusion techniques, selected auditory and visual stimuli, drugs -- and possibly even the proverbial whack on the skull. Unsurprisingly, vivid hallucinations often resulted. Western civilization, we are told, was founded on the Greek model -- but to what degree was Greek civilization itself founded on mind control? Mystery cults expanded throughout the ancient world, always centering (as Dr. Pierre Janet once noted) in the same types of pastoral locales favored by modern centers of Marian devotion. At Eleusis, as at Lourdes, the pilgrim entered craftily-designed alternate world, set amid grottoes, streams, caves and candlelight rites: "Initiation ceremonies of secret cults of the mystery-type invariably involve tests, sometimes most severe ones. The effect of certain experiences was a carefully worked program of mind training which is familiar in modern times as that employed by certain totalitarian states to 'condition' or reshape the thinking of the individual. This process produces a state in which the mind is pliant enough to have certain ideas implanted: ideas which resist a great deal of counter-influence." The Truth About "Magic" During the Middle Ages and Renaissance, alchemists filled many an obscure text with descriptions of techniques intended to focus the will and alter awareness. These auto-induced trance states probably account for many of the visionary experiences reported in occult lore. In a sense, magic works -- in spite of, not because of, the theory of the magician. Example: Ritualists once set great store by a device called "The Triangle of the Art." This was, essentially, a round glass (roughly a foot in diameter) painted black on the reverse and set into a triangular wooden frame, which was painted white and bedecked with esoteric symbols. The magician was to sit in a darkened room facing this glass, flanked on either side by lit candles placed just outside his direct vision. By studying the dark mirror, concentrating on the reflected light dancing on his face, the magician would slip into the spirit realms and commune with forces beyond. Undoubtedly, the device did its job, though the triangular frame and eldritch calligraphy contributed little aside from decoration. As the American military would re-discover in the 20th Century, flickering light can profoundly affect perception and awareness. The literature of occultism, stripped of its supernatural pretenses, records the long pre-history of Mesmerism. The demons called forth by Prelati and Gilles de Rais, the Colosseum of horrors witnessed by Buenvenuto Cellini, the spirits evoked by Edward Kelly and John Dee, the devils who possessed the sisters at Loudon: Mind manipulation may not explain all of these phenomena, but it explains much. The MKULTRA scientists merely mapped lands the alchemists had long ago discovered. As Richard Cavendish points out in his history of The Black Arts: "There is not much doubt that the procedures of ritual magic are likely to cause hallucinations. The magician prepares himself by abstinence and lack of sleep, or by drink, drugs and sex. He breathes in fumes which may affect his brain and senses. He performs mysterious rites which tug at the deepest, most emotional and unreasoning levels of his mind, and he is further intoxicated by the killing of an animal, the wounding of a human being and in some cases the approach to and the achievement of orgasm. Through all this he concentrates on a mental image of the being he hopes to see. It does not seem at all unlikely that at the high point of the ceremony he may actually see it." Religion Similar practices had similar results within the confines of mainstream faith. Teresa of Avila, the 16th century mystic, may be famous for her charming homily "God is to be found in the pots and pans" -- yet she did not receive her visions spontaneously, while going about her daily labors like other women. To the contrary: In order to experience the divine, she required of herself (and of her charges) penances, solitude, strict discipline, chants, and ongoing mental prayer. This continual hypnotic auto-induction resulted in the state of ecstasy -- the state of trance -- depicted in Bernini's famous statue. Her fellow Carmelites, having undergone the same preparation, would experience the same visions, interviewing celestial visitors alongside Teresa. History's other great mystics -- inspired seers, such as St. John of the Cross, Plotinus, and Meister Eckhart -- usually followed similar recipes for ecstasy. According to William Sargant, the methodologies of religious conversion "often approximate so closely to modern political techniques of brain-washing and thought control that each throws light on the mechanics of the other." Sargant pays particular attention to the great English revivalist of the mid-18th century, John Wesley. His technique ("used," according to Sargant, "not only in many other successful religions but in modern political warfare") involved an all-out assault on the emotions, primarily the emotion of fear. The preacher would hit this note at the loudest possible volume for the longest possible time, until many in the audience succumbed to hysterical collapse. This approach differs hardly at all from the ultra-emotional "conditioning" sessions conducted by such modern-day evangelists as Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker. Interestingly, Wesley even recommended a form of electro-convulsive therapy involving Leyden jars. He considered the intentional electrification of human beings both harmless and beneficial, "a thousand medicines in one." John Wesley may thus be the first "programmer" to take a serious interest in the use of electricity to affect mind and body. All religious systems have incorporated practices designed to modify consciousness: the chanting of mantras, focusing of concentration, guided imagery, breathing exercises, group ritual, intense prayer, etc. Mind control, defined broadly, has affected history to the extent that religion has affected history. The wars of faith have rarely been more than the clashes of psychic autocracies. The Assassins Perhaps the most innovative thinker in the history of psychological manipulation was the legendary Persian warlord Hasan I Sabbah, otherwise known as "The Old Man of the Mountains." Reportedly a boyhood friend of the poet Omar Khyam, Hasan was the son of a governor. He was educated in the ways of the Ismailis, a semi-gnostic sect based in Cairo, which used subtle psychological techniques to instill initiates with a fanatic loyalty to the Egyptian caliph. When the ambitious and ruthless Hasan was exiled from Persia in 1078, he vowed revenge -- and soon achieved it, by perfecting Ismaili mind-control methods. In the words of Marco Polo, Hasan "caused draughts of a soporific nature to be administered to ten or a dozen youths." He would then transport the drugged youths to a beautiful, but inescapable, valley adjacent to his hillside fortress near Kasvin. Every detail of this Persian garden corresponded with the descriptions of paradise found in the Koran -- including a connoisseur's collection of harem girls. "Upon awakening from this state of lethargy their senses were struck by all the delightful objects, and each perceiving himself surrounded by lovely damsels, singing, playing, and attracting his regards by the most fascinating caresses..." The recruits believed that they had literally died and gone to heaven. After a few weeks of beatific bliss, the young fighting men were (much to their disappointment) expelled from paradise and returned to the outside world. Hasan would them send them on missions of what we would now call "unconventional warfare." The promised reward for both success and martyrdom was a revisit to the garden of delights. Thus, Hasan managed to overcome the most serious obstacle to effective soldiering: the innate human will for self-preservation. The troops welcomed death, and maintained their ecstatic vision of the afterlife through the liberal use of hashish -- hence the term hashishim, from which we derive the word "assassin." Another "recruiting" technique was more direct: Hasan would purchase children from the poor, and raise them from infancy to become absolutely obedient warriors. So great was Hasan's control that he once impressed a visiting dignitary by ordering one of his men to leap off a cliff, an order fulfilled without a second's hesitation. The hashishim advanced Hasan's interests, established a network of strongholds, and either murdered or intimidated all rival rulers. By 1094 these elite troops, wearing the white tunics and red sashes characteristic of their sect, had made Hasan the most powerful warlord in the area now called the Middle East. Reportedly, King Richard the Lion-hearted once contracted Hasan to have a mind-controlled assassin perform a "hit" against a rival crusader. Such, at least, is the story. Alas, figures like The Old Man of the Mountains invite much myth, and never leave the sort of paper trail modern-day researchers would prefer. We know, however, that as the centuries progressed, the hashishim evolved into an extremely widespread cult, which had made its presence known in Russia, China, and even India -- where the ways of the assassins may have inspired the notorious Thugees. Hasan's sect survives to this day throughout the Middle East. In Gujurat state, India, and in Pakistan, they are now known as the Khojas, and owe their allegiance to the Aga Khan, leader of the modern-day Ismailis. Mesmerism All sciences of today owe something to the pseudosciences of older times. As we have seen, hypnotism's debt is particularly large. Many history books credit Franz Anton Mesmer (1733-1815) as the founder of the science of hypnotism, yet we should properly classify Mesmer as an occultist, not a scientist, for he never represented the Age of Reason. He reflected older traditions. Specifically, Mesmer adopted and expanded upon the ideas first proposed by that impressive and irascible 16th Century alchemist, Paracelsus. This fascinating healer, one-quarter empiricist and three-quarters quack (at a time when most medical men approached the 100% mark for charlatanism), made many enemies in his day. His personality may be gauged by the fact that his real name -- Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohoenheim -- gave rise to our word "bombast." Paracelsus held that life flows through an invisible and intangible liquid he called "mumia." Alchemists generally refer to this substance as a fluid, although we perhaps ought to think of it as something akin to the aura, or Wilhelm Reich's orgone energy. Supposedly, bodily fluids (including blood, sweat and urine) maintain this life essence for a brief period. Paracelsus favored applying these substances to a diseased body, arguing that healthy mumia could attract diseased mumia, much as a magnet attracts iron. This practice apparently led Paracelsus to use actual magnets on his patients. He cured hysterical disorders in women by placing the positive pole of a magnet on the head and the negative pole of another magnet below. Again, the magic worked, in spite of the theory of the magician. During the Age of Reason, a few lonely voices continued to propound the notion of animal magnetism, particularly an English doctor named Richard Mead and the Jesuit Professor Maximilian Hehle, of Vienna. In 1774, Hehle used magnets to cure a woman's stomach cramps. After the patient recovered, Hehle happened to mention his success to a fellow Viennese -- the aforementioned Franz Anton Mesmer. Mesmer was hooked. He felt that Hehle's experiment confirmed his own ideas of an "etheric fluid" which pervades all space and controls human health -- a concept cribbed, obviously, from Paracelsus' idea of the mumia. During the next year, Mesmer used magnets, and eventually his hands, to manipulate this imagined ether. Initial successes with hypochondriacs and hysterics quickly established Mesmer's reputation. It became tarnished just as rapidly, when he attempted to use animal magnetism to cure an attractive young pianist of her blindness. She and a number of pretty female "patients" came to live with Mesmer, creating something of a scandal: The Viennese sensed that "magnetic" treatment could allow the unscrupulous to take advantage of the fairer sex. (This remains a concern in hypnotic practice.) Mesmer found it expedient to remove himself to Paris. There, he established a fantastically successful salon catering to the aristocracy. Mesmer initiated a form of "group therapy": Patients would enter a large tub filled with water, magnets, and iron filings. They formed a circle, alternating male and female, pressing thighs together (the healing sessions contained an undeniable sexual element), and used their hands to manipulate each other's "ether." Mesmer presided over these ceremonies in flowing robes of light violet, waving a long magnet-wand over his patients and any other object he cared to "magnetize." Obviously, all this was buncombe. Yet many declared themselves cured, or at least profoundly affected. Mesmer's treatment sent his charges into violent convulsions -- a complete physical collapse known as "the crisis." Some experienced hallucinations, as when certain patients reported seeing flames shooting out of Mesmer's magnets. These fascinating, yet disturbing, reports prompted King Louis XVI to commission an independent study by a respected team of scientists, which included that esteemed visitor from America, Dr. Benjamin Franklin. They examined Mesmer's claims, most of which did not stand up under close scrutiny. The commissioners observed numerous patients touch a "magnetized" tree to regain health; many mistakenly touched the wrong tree, yet experienced the crisis nonetheless. Franklin and his fellow experts determined that "imagination without magnetism produces convulsions, and that the magnetism without the imagination produces nothing." So much for Mesmer's theory of the all-encompassing etheric fluid. The report concluded "...that the existence of the fluid is absolutely destitute of proof, and that the fluid, having no existence, can consequently have no use." Mesmer was proven a fraud -- but a fraud who, disconcertingly enough, had obtained impressive results. For the discerning eye, the spectacle of magnetic healing still provided much to marvel at. If "imagination" alone could produce profound physical effects, then the human mind possessed previously unguessed-at capabilities. Moreover, Mesmer eventually discovered the somnambulistic (as opposed to the convulsive) hypnotic state. This is the form of hypnosis used therapeutically by later, more scientific practitioners. His magic had worked despite his theory; it was up to his followers to straighten out the theory. That process, alas, took the better part of the next hundred years. Arguably, the process continues today. Hypnotism Mesmer's pupil, the Comte de Puysegur, used what he termed magnetic somnabulism to cure a shepherd boy. The experiment's results largely accorded with those achieved by modern hypnotic practitioners; the subject even experienced amnesia covering the trance episode. De Puysegur also used hypnosis (which had not yet attained that label) to conduct experiments -- reportedly successful -- in telepathy. Two surgeons, Dr. John Elliotson of London and Dr. James Esdaile, who worked in India, performed operations using "mesmeric anaesthesia." The technique even allowed Esdaile to perform painless amputations. Yet the British medical establishment was incensed by Elliotson's dabblings in what they considered the occult; his hospital banned the use of mesmerism in medical practice. Perhaps no other episode better exemplifies the limitations of what we might label the "CSICOP" mentality: The arch-skeptics of Elliotson's day condemned thousands of patients to agonies hypnosis could have averted. Yet scientific skittishness was understandable: Many experimenters were uncredentialed, and many used Mesmer's techniques to explore ESP, always a dangerous topic. Interestingly, a number of practitioners -- such as Alexandre Bertrand, Dr. J.H.D. Petetin, and Dr. L. Rostan -- reported very positive results in this field. "Magnetized" patients seemed to develop telepathy and other paranormal abilities. An American doctor, Lyman B. Larkin, used animal magnetism to cure a servant girl. When entranced, the girl developed a secondary personality in marked contrast to her natural character. She also reportedly established paranormal powers, and communicated with a "fairy" who appeared to her during magnetized sessions. This case -- with its bizarre combination of hypnosis, multiple personality disorder, ESP experimentation and visual hallucination -- could almost be considered a dry run for MKULTRA. Scottish physician James Braid invented the term "neuro-hypnosis" in the mid-19th century. He proposed a purely physical explanation of the process. This theory, though totally erroneous, was carefully couched in medical terms and thus did much to carry hypnosis into respectability. (If we compare Elliotson and Braid, we might conclude that respect accrues not to he who produces results, but to he who masters the jargon.) Like his predecessors, Braid found that he could use hypnosis to perform relatively painless surgeries. Many of the most intriguing hypnotic phenomena -- catalepsy, amnesia, analgesia, loss of sight or hearing, release of inhibition -- now received, for the first time, attention from the scientific establishment. Braid's theories attracted Professor Jean Martin Charcot, the famed Parisian neurologist. He conducted experiments with hypnotism at the Salpetriere Hospital, eventually aided by a trio of soon-to-be-stellar associates: Sigmund Freud, Pierre Janet, and Alfred Binet. Alas, Charcot founded his work upon flawed assumptions. Like Braid, he considered hypnosis a purely mechanical process; like Mesmer, he felt magnets and metals could set the process into motion. Because he operated primarily on women suffering from hysteria, he concluded that hypnosis could only work on hysterical females. To Charcot, the hypnotic state resulted from a disease of the nervous system; if a patient "went under" easily, that patient was obviously physically ill. During this period -- which some call the Golden Age of hypnosis -- rivalry developed between the specialists at the Saltpetriere and a somewhat more advanced school of hypnosis at the Nancy Medical Society, led by Drs. Ambrose Liebeault and Hippolyte Bernheim. They saw hypnosis not as a symptom of physiological disorder, but as a psychological process, helpful in healing common neuroses. Bernheim and Liebeault asserted that suggestion alone caused hypnosis. Normal people could be hypnotized, although differing individuals had different levels of hypnotic susceptibility. Even though Janet and Freud first established themselves at the Saltpetriere, the work done at Nancy intrigued both men. Janet conducted the first serious work into the subject of multiple personality disorder. Secondary personalities, he felt, could be artificially induced by the hypnotist -- an important point, long the subject of dispute. Janet improved upon Charcot's theories considerably when he investigated hypnosis as a process of dissociation -- the separation of one segment of the mind from another. Neurotic patients often had repressed memories of traumatic events in their past; Janet discovered that once the patient re-awakened the memories, the symptoms of neurotic disorder often abated. Hypnotic age regression provided a key that could unlock the past. In 1889, Freud became Bernheim's pupil, after witnessing a demonstration which made a deep impression: "A man was placed in a condition of somnambulism, and then made to go through all sorts of hallucinatory experiences. On being wakened, he seemed at first to know nothing at all of what had taken place during his hypnotic sleep. Bernheim then asked him in so many words to tell him what had happened while he was under hypnosis. The man declared that he could not remember anything. Bernheim, however, insisted upon it, pressed him, and assured him that he did know and that he must remember, and lo and behold, the man wavered, began to reflect, and remembered in a shadowy fashion first one of the occurrences that had been suggested to him, then something else, his recollection growing increasingly clear..." Freud drew a lasting lesson from this experiment: The mind could know something -- yet not KNOW what it knew. The unconscious stored information at differing levels. Note, too, that Bernheim's patient eventually recalled not what actually occurred during the experiment, but the hallucinatory pseudo-memories that Dr. Bernheim had suggested. After making the intellectual segue between the Saltpetriere and Nancy, Freud eventually became frustrated with hypnosis. The results, he felt, were capricious and impermanent, and not everyone who needed help proved susceptible to trance induction. Freud turned to free association as "the royal road to the unconscious." Thus was born psychoanalysis -- the long, sometimes painful process which exposed the patient's resistances and repressions. Freud saw resistance as a signpost directing the analyst to the root of his patient's problems; hypnosis, by contrast, concealed these resistances. "The hypnotic therapy endeavors to cover up and as it were to whitewash something going on in the mind, the analytic to lay bare and remove something. The first works cosmetically, the second surgically." Into the Twentieth Century Freud's discoveries fascinated healers of the mind, and many followed his lead in abandoning hypnotherapy for analysis. For a while, hypnosis settled into the background of intellectual thought -- until military psychologists brought the technique back into action during World War I, along with that unsettling new development, electroshock. Doctors in many armies used both electricity and trance to treat "combat shock" and other dissociative disorders arising from the strain of battle. According to the respected historian John Toland, one such patient may have been a German corporal named Adolf Hitler. In 1918, Hitler lay in a Pasewalk military hospital, stricken with a psychosomatic blindness. There, Toland tells us, the future fuehrer was attended by Dr. Edmund Forster, an important hypnosis researcher from Berlin University. Hysterical blindness is precisely the sort of symptom that would have interested a clinician like Forster. He may have opened the corporal's eyes in more ways than one. During this stay at Pasewalk, Hitler experienced a "vision" -- perhaps induced hypnotically -- in which he heard voices entreating him to become the savior of Germany (or so Hitler later claimed). Toland obliquely suggests a truly remarkable scenario: Adolf Hitler as the first Manchurian Candidate. An unsettling notion, to be sure. Perhaps we should be grateful to Hitler "psychohistorian" Robert G.L. Waite, who has argued persuasively that Forster never treated Hitler. ---------------------------------------------------------------- MindNet Journal FTP Archive Filename: [mn199.txt] ================================================================ To receive the MindNet Journal via email: Send message: [subscribe mindnet] to: <Majordomo@c2.org>. To unsubscribe: Send message: [unsubscribe mindnet] to: <Majordomo@c2.org>. Back issues of the MindNet Journal are available at our FTP Archive site: ftp://idiom.com/users/vericomm/mindnet/ The MindNet Journal Publication Index contains descriptions of all back issues and is located at the FTP site (filename: [mnindex#.txt]). Letters to editor, Mike Coyle: <vericomm@idiom.com>. Submission of articles for publication within the MindNet Journal on the subjects of mind control, directed-energy weapons, non-lethal weapons, ritual abuse, UFO abductions, bioelectromagnetics, hypnosis and other related topics will be accepted with the author's statement of permission to publish. The editor reserves the right to accept or reject for publication. The publisher disclaims all responsibility to return unsolicited matter. Send articles for publication to: <vericomm@idiom.com> or VERICOMM, POB 32314, Oakland, CA 94604-2314 USA. VERICOMM (sm) and its agents disclaim any and all responsibility or liability for any and all claims and/or guarantees, express or implied, and delivery of products, merchandise and/or services offered for sale by advertisers and/or authors within the MindNet Journal. The MindNet Journal mailing list is owned and maintained by VERICOMM (sm), POB 32314, Oakland, CA 94604-2314 USA. ================================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Jan 97 10:37:48 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:32:56 -0500 Subject: New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:43:13 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell Jorgen, >>>>>Information must be free and without charge to be credible.<<<<<<< What complete and utter nonsense! Why should UFO researchers, as opposed to researchers in all other fields of endeavor, be expected not to make a living. Since coming into this wacky field I have encountered this weird attitude a number of times and just can't fathom it. When I work, I expect to be paid for it. Do you live in a socialist country, by chance? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Alfred's Odd Ode #76 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:40:13 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:29:46 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 Apology to MW #76 (For January 17, 1997) As regards Courtney Brown, and last night's performance, I'm aghast with the depth of the lie. But more shocking still is defense of this *source* That hoaxed, and continues to FLY. Brown's reasons for silence *seem* honorable, But this only occurs on the surface. The *prof* spit in our face, ensured Courtney's disgrace And enigma has gained its new purchase. Art Bell was benumbed and befuddled. Whitley was quiet with rage. . . But what's left for _you_ gentle reader, As we grope for what's next on the page? Lehmberg@snowhill.com (*)!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 BWW Media Alert 970116 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 05:55:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:31:19 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970116 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) January 16, 1997 A little more towards the paranormal, non-UFO stuff this time: that's nice, for a change. For instance, THE LEARNING CHANNEL is running a block of "castle ghost" featureson Sunday night. MAGIC, MYSTERIES & MIRACLES is pre-empted on Monday for a SWAMP THING marathon...well, as long as there's a good reason :) . CONFERENCES, LECTURES, AND MEETINGS This is new as a regular feature. Please e-mail me anything you want listed. Be sure to include the speaker or topic where applicable, place, date, time, cost, and an e-mail. Saturday, 1/18 through Friday, 1/24, 6th Annual INTERNATIONAL UFO CONGRESS, Gold River Resort, Laughlin Nevada. Speakers include: Colin Andrews, Stan Deyo, Whitley Strieber, G.C. Shellhorn, Bill Hamilton, Lee Shargel, A.J. Gevaerd, Wendelle Stevens, Jaime Mausson, Jorge Martin, etc. Call 303-543-9443 for details. Events vary from $6.00 to $35 Thursday, 1/23, weekly meeting of SHIFT at 7:30 pm, 25 Waverly Place, Hillsborough, CA, no charge: digdinos@aol.com FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see the excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http:\\www\cninews.com PICKET FENCES, being re-run on Fox, has an episode called SIGHTINGS on Sunday at 1:00 PM, where a body is linked to UFOs, bringing in the buffs. Bunch of lake and sea monster movies this week: DEEPSTAR SIX, Sundauy at 11:30 PM on Showtime2, MAGIC IN THE WATER on Wed. on SHOWTIME at 8:00 AM and 6:10 PM, Shelley Duvall's BEDTIME STORIES with LITTLE TOOT AND THE LOCH NESS MONSTER on Monday at 7:00 AM on SHOWTIME 2, and Barney Fife, cryptozoologist in RETURN TO MAYBERRY on Friday at 10:05 AM on TBS (believe it or not, this 1986 reunion movie has its plot revolve around lake monster sightings). The big guest on the X-FILES (Sunday at 9:00 PM on Fox) is Charles Nelson Reilly, star of LIDSVILLE. Helen Hunt plays an alien on the BIONIC WOMAN on Tuesday at 1:00 pm on Sci-Fi. Meanwhile, her bionic counterpart meets aliens in THE RETURN OF BIGFOOT on SCI-FI on Friday at 2:00 PM. Even BAYWATCH does a UFO thing (syndication, try Wednesday's show). RUPERT, the kids show on Nickelodeon, has RUPERT AND THE UFO on Thursday at 10:00 AM. The Disney Channel is running CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND on Sunday at 10:00 PM. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE: I'm working on getting listings in time to run them here. Seems like a nice guy with a lot of good guests. Check out the website for stations and guest info http://www.endoftheline.com Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: Electrocution prevented by a prayer (and an unpaid electric bill...just kidding); and a pregnant woman is helped by "an unseen hand". PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --week of 1/13 (new episode): THE CURSE (which is a King Tuttish thing); and ANGEL ON A PLANE, wherein a disabled plane is landed by a mysterious pilot. --week of 1/20 (new episode): DEVIL'S TRIANGLE (a Bermuda Triangle thing), and ANASAZI CAVE (trouble at an archeological dig) Saturday, January 18 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: host Brenda Roberts checks out a koi farm where witnesses (who suffered damaged hair) saw a UFO put out high heat, and then all the koi in the pond closest to it died. 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): HUNT HOUSE HAUNTING; SOLAR OBLITERATION (are there lots of UFOs to see, but they hide in the sun's light? John Bro says he knows how to see them, and supposedly, SIGHTINGS gets something on tape, and Jim Dilettoso sees one as well); THE MESSAGE (after being terrified by being abducted, Kathleen Cooke now decides it's a =good= thing ((Patty Hearst comments from Stockholm...not really))); LOVE TIES (that's not what you gave your Dad in the sixties...is there really a bond between parents and kids? Of course there is...although it some households, the bond between the kids and the tv gives it some competition) 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, THE JOURNEY BEGINS (this is the first episode, featuring ACC himself outlining the series) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): HUNT HOUSE HAUNTING; SOLAR OBLITERATION (are there lots of UFOs to see, but they hide in the sun's light? John Bro says he knows how to see them, and supposedly, SIGHTINGS gets something on tape, and Jim Dilettoso sees one as well); THE MESSAGE (after being terrified by being abducted, Kathleen Cooke now decides it's a =good= thing ((Patty Hearst comments from Stockholm...not really))); LOVE TIES (that's not what you gave your Dad in the sixties...is there really a bond between parents and kids? Of course there is...although it some households, the bond between the kids and the tv gives it some competition) 7:00 PM, A&E, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOS? Michael (Worf) Dorn narrates. Postulates that UFO sightings began after World War II, and are dwindling down with the end of the Cold War. Oh, yeah, I've noticed a big drop-off in sightings, haven't you ;) ? 7:00 PM, TDC, SCI-TREK, CURSE OF THE COCAINE MUMMIES: new world drugs in old world mummies...what's up? 11:00 PM, A&E, WHERE ARE ALL THE UFOS? Michael (Worf) Dorn narrates. Postulates that UFO sightings began after World War II, and are dwindling down with the end of the Cold War. Oh, yeah, I've noticed a big drop-off in sightings, haven't you ;) ? 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4051): HUNT HOUSE HAUNTING; SOLAR OBLITERATION (are there lots of UFOs to see, but they hide in the sun's light? John Bro says he knows how to see them, and supposedly, SIGHTINGS gets something on tape, and Jim Dilettoso sees one as well); THE MESSAGE (after being terrified by being abducted, Kathleen Cooke now decides it's a =good= thing ((Patty Hearst comments from Stockholm...not really))); LOVE TIES (that's not what you gave your Dad in the sixties...is there really a bond between parents and kids? Of course there is...although it some households, the bond between the kids and the tv gives it some competition) Sunday, January 19 LOCAL RADIO, 1220 CHSC AM in St. Catharines, Ontario (and available via Internet), THE "X" SHOW: Rob McConnell interviews channeler Paula Farmer (who has channeled John Lennon, and Carmen Bouthler, author of ANGELS AND ARCHETYPES. I didn't notice that the listing I had didn't have a time. E-mail me or misterx@xchonicles.com for info. Alternatively, check the website at www.xchonicles.com. SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interview Larry Montz and Dana Smoller about Ghost Expeditions (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 5:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, THE POWER OF PRAYER 8:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF IRELAND (a silver-hoofed horse, a headless ghost, and thou) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF SCOTLAND (The Green Lady, the Phantom Piper, and the Chevy two-door ((just kidding on that last one)) ) 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF ENGLAND 11:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF IRELAND (a silver-hoofed horse, a headless ghost, and thou) Monday, January 20 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: ARE YOU PSYCHIC? (here's a hint...if you can't wait for them to =show= you the test results, you probably aren't) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF SCOTLAND (The Green Lady, the Phantom Piper, and the Chevy two-door ((just kidding on that last one)) ) 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF ENGLAND 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF IRELAND (a silver-hoofed horse, a headless ghost, and thou) 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS, WOLFMAN - THE MYTH AND THE SCIENCE Tuesday, January 21 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: MUGGSY BOGUS (I don't know why this basketball player is here, but hey...)(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF IRELAND (a silver-hoofed horse, a headless ghost, and thou) 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS, WOLFMAN - THE MYTH AND THE SCIENCE 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#9): MAGIC ON WHEELS (driving while blindfolded...only slightly more difficult than driving while putting on your make-up); STARSTRUCK SPIRITS (more Hollywood ghosts); MY FAVORITE PLEIDIAN (man claims his Dad is an alien...does Donna Pescow know about this?) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF SCOTLAND (The Green Lady, the Phantom Piper, and the Chevy two-door ((just kidding on that last one)) ) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, INTO THIN AIR (vanishing buildings...kind of like all those full-service gas stations you used ot see...) 10:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS, THE UNEXPLAINED (crop circles, etc.) Wednesday, January 22 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: VOODOO MEDICINE (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF SCOTLAND (The Green Lady, the Phantom Piper, and the Chevy two-door ((just kidding on that last one)) ) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES & MIRACLES (#10): NOSTRADAMUS (this is the guy who predicted the death of Henry II, Hitler, and the rise of Fox as the fourth network...); UFO CONVENTION; and INTERVIEW WITH A VAMPIRE 7:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058): no details available 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF ENGLAND 10:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS: UFO (general documentary) 11:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058): no details available Thursday, January 23 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: KING ARTHUR LIVES (a man believes he is King Arthur reincarnated...someone should explain to him that just because he eats at ROUND TABLE, doesn't mean he's King Arthur! :) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF ENGLAND 1:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS: UFO 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#11): LIFE ON MARS; PSYCHIC DETECTIVE; and THE DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND 10:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, CANNIBALISM Friday, December 24 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 2:00 AM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, CANNIBALISM 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#12): WALL OF VOODOO; ALIEN ARTISTS; and MESSAGE IN THE CROPS 8:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE QUEST: IS ANYONE OUT THERE? (Is there intelligent life anywhere in the Universe ((present company excepted))?) 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, THE UNEXPLAINED, WITHCES, WEREWOLVES, AND VAMPIRES (Graves peter out...I mean, Peter Graves hosts) 11:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, THE QUEST: IS ANYONE OUT THERE? (Is there intelligent life anywhere in the Universe ((present company excepted))?) This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ Books can be ordered directly over the Internet from the STRANGE MAGAZINE website at http://www.strangemag.com. =Please= tell them Bufo sent you. This is not a paid ad, but I do get something if you order and mention me. Also, it's a great site and you'll be helping to support one of the best mags out there! And I'm not saying that just because I'm a Contributing Editor :) . ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS.
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell From: KRandle993@aol.com <Kevin Randle> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:45:55 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:25:32 -0500 Subject: Re: New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell Okay, since everyone seems to be concerned with Philip Corso and his upcoming book, THE DAY AFTER ROSWELL, here's what I know. Corso claims to be a lieutenant colonel in 1961 and worked on the Foreign Technology desk for Army research and development at the Pentagon. In that capacity, he claims to have been made privy to the Army's capture and reverse engineering of the UFO that crashed near Roswell. He tells how the craft had been penetrating US airspace, shooting down our aircraft and have been abducting people. He claims that the material was moved from Roswell by truck and that he stopped overnight at Fort Riley, Kansas... the base at which Corso was assigned in 1947. He claims that one of the guards, a bowling buddy of his, sneaked him into the top secret area so that he would have a change to see the damaged craft. Security at these facilities must have been horrible because of all the people who managed to penetrate them to see the "secret of the millineum." Oh, yes, he pulls back a tarp to see one of the alien bodies. Corso describes the alien debris, all of which we have already heard described by so many others. And he delves into science fiction with a head piece that might be a guidance system. Then, in what may delight Stan Friedman, or piss him off, Corso claims to have been assigned to the staff of MJ-12. Here, for the first time, we're treated to the tales of a true "insider" who was on MJ-12. Through his job at the Foreign Technology desk, they hoped to feed the technology recovered into American industry so that it can be intergrated into the world and used by the military. Yes, Corso names names... Vannevar Bush, Roscoe Hillenkoetter, Nathan Twining and Walter Smith. He also throws in LT. GEN Arthur Gilbert Trudeau who, in 1961, was the eighth-highest-ranking lieutenant general. Though I haven't checked, I'd be surprised if he was still alive to corroborate Corso's story. BTW: Corso's name doesn't appear in the registery of all Army officers in 1961... but given the size of the Army, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some mistakes in it. Corso goes on to name Werner von Braun, Wilbert Smith, Robert Sarbacher and John Von Neuman. If nothing else, he has read all the UFO literature... There really is nothing new here. Corco claims that the intergrated circuit chip, the laser, and fiber optics are all the result of alien technology. He claimed that the scientists learned that the broken ends of the thin wires would emit light... Something that young rancher Bill Brazel noticed in 1947. Corso mentions Project Horizon which was a plan to build a base on the moon... ultimately the plan was canceled and the space program given to NASA. He also talks about Project HARP, which was the development of a supergun, which to me proves that Corso watches HBO and their movie about Jerry Bull's supergun. He even brings up the images of Jules Verne (talk about Nineteenth Century technology) to illustrate the concept. Yes, I enjoyed the HBO movie and have watched it a couple of times. He credits the alien technology with the development of the Star Wars defense or a response to the threat of alien invasion... a concept I think that Phil Klass and Jim Moseley might have invented over a glass of beer a number of years ago. Anyway, that's a run down on Corso's book. To me, and this is my personal opinion, because he claims to have been on the staff of MJ-12, his book is less than accurate. That he ties the abduction phenomenon to aliens suggests that he knows nothing more than the rest of us and is another reason to dismiss this as just opportunism. Anyone who has watched television for the last five years, read the books available, and kept track of what is happening, has been exposed to all these revelations already. As I say, the only check I have made on Corso's background was to search for his name in the U.S. ARMY REGISTER, Volume 1, the active and retired list, dated January 1, 1961. His name does not appear. There is nothing here that I was count on blowing the lid off the Roswell case. It might be that Corso is laying low until the publication of his book because he doesn't want to be scrutinized until after publication. I find the references to his personal involvement in MJ-12 to be the smoking gun about the credibility of the book. I would be interested in Stan Friedman's
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 12:12:53 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:28:21 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? John Joseph Mercieca, who received #10 of Infinite Energy magazine which said that a Gravity Shield Effect is Confirmed, and further asked; > Do we know enough about gravity to say this can't be done? I do. And the answer is that it is impossible to shield gravity. Why? The answer is simple... http://www.republic.net/~pparri/gravity ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 17 Mutilations in Viet Nam From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:45:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:47:38 -0500 Subject: Mutilations in Viet Nam ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:24:06 -0500 From: Ashley Rye <106064.3617@compuserve.com> Subject: Mutilations in Viet Nam To: SKYWATCH <skywatch@wic.net> Cc: In_Search_of <In_Search_of@primenet.com>, Iufo <iufo@world.std.com> HUMAN MUTILATIONS Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:22:19 +0000 From: Mark Hunziker In further interest to Don Ecker's reports... Dear Don, Story#1 It was in Las Vegas in July, 1989 during the MUFON conference where I originally heard you speak. You were part of a special Sunday morning consortium of speakers which John Lear opened. During this special four-speaker session, a man by the name of Bill English spoke. During his presentation he shared his involvement with regard to a missing B-52 Bomber that went down under mysterious conditions in the jungles of Vietnam while he was stationed there. I will share what I remember as best as I can. I believe this part of his story took place around 1967. This mission was classified in advance as the aircraft had gone down under very strange circumstances Bill was a military photographer. He and several other servicemen were called out on special assignment to investigate this B-52 crash and were airlifted by helicopter to the site. When they arrived they were first surprised to find that the bomber had left no path of destruction where it had gone down. There was no burned or knocked down trees. When they landed to inspect the aircraft Bill and the team were flabbergasted to find that the aircraft was completely undamaged, including the engines and engine pods which would normally be ripped off by a crashing aircraft. This huge American bomber looked like it had been lowered into the jungle and set down very gently. The real surprise came when they entered the cabin. The crew of this bomber(I think he said four) all still sat in the cockpit with their seat belts fastened but the pilots and crew were all mutilated with the typically mysterious wounds and missing flesh we so often read about. Bill claimed that the bodies were removed and inspected and that though these pilots had been seated in there jump seats, some had even had their rectums cored. The investigation was completed along with photographs taken, then they were ordered to torch and destroy the aircraft and bodies. Story#2 In February of 1979 I became a Flight Attendant for Eastern Airlines(bankrupted 1991). During my 12 years with them I had many occasions to sit in the flight deck(cockpit) and talk to the pilots about many subjects. It was early in my career at Eastern that I was to hear an interesting story told by a second officer on the Boeing 727. I would say he told me this story in early 1980. I don't remember much of the detail, only the flavor. This 727 navigator/pilot was a fighter pilot in the service(I don't remember which branch). I don't think he mentioned the year that this took place. He claimed that he often flew with his best friend and that on a particular day/night he and his best friend were scrambled to give chase to an unidentified target on radar. He and his buddy soon achieved altitude and made their way to the assigned target. They both gave chase to what he referred to as a UFO. (Unfortunately, at the time I was not an investigator so I didn't inquire into details about the craft). They were in continuous radio contact with their superiors on the ground and it wasn't long into their two way radio description with the CO that the CO ordered the best friend to pursue at close range and shoot to kill(an openly hostile and aggressive order considering the story being related). This second officer went on to say that he watched as his best friend went in as ordered, closer and as his friend went to fire on the UFO, he watched his best friend's jet blow up directly in front of him. When he reported the event to his command, they ordered him to also pursue and shoot to kill. This pilot cynically laughed as he told the story to me of how he refused that order and what he told them they could do with their airplane. He returned to the base and he says he was subsequently discharged. He related it was better to be a live chicken than a dead duck any day. He was more noticeably upset about having lost his best friend in the incident. I am a former MUFON State Section Director for Broward and Palm Beach Counties, Florida(8 years). Over the past 15 years I've studied many cases and read many books. I think that these two stories give rise to a line of questioning when viewed within the context of your own research. Yes, it seems that there is some killing going on... but who's doing the aggressing and is that the causation giving rise to such events as human mutilations? If so, are humans collectively held responsible for the aggressive actions of the few who cut violent orders? Because I pay tax dollars into the Military/Industrial Complex... Am I seen by outside civilizations as part of the human herd that is making an evil empire possible through collective fear? It seems likely to me that however motivated these outsiders might be, they certainly have had the technological know-how to have easily destroyed us long ago. Could it be that behind the barriers of government secrecy, there may be a few human beings, with the best of our technologies have to offer, who play with pilots lives like bullets in a gun? Who makes the decision in the military to go in at close range and shoot to kill and for what reason? Why shoot at all? Do we want someone else's technology so badly that we'll kill to get it? I think so. We've seen this behavior before. We see this same human behavior play out in our lives every day. What makes those of us who hold high secrets virtuous from the same greedy motives. My guess is there is a warning in the cosmos to visit Earth at your own risk and if travel you must, never let down your guard. Each human bumbles his awareness of personal responsibility for his actions. Some are spiritually enlightened in their knowledge of relationships and natural laws but most humans are deficient, unaware and maybe even sleeping. Be especially wary of those who are advancing in technology for they randomly become more and more dangerous. Bob Oechlar's wrote this when he resigned from Ufology in 1994. "My final opinion is that there is no mystery to the UFO phenomenon, the real mystery involves the sociology of how it affects and polarizes those drawn to it." Those who are "drawn to it(UFOs)" rise within hierarchy into unseen and powerful places where the mysteries are observed with little or no obfuscation. Until the mystery is shared with humanity one and all we'll remain in constant danger from the unknown motives of a few humans who "desire something" from whomever for whatever reason. It is disturbing to be more distrusting of my fellow man than I am any outsider. We have as much to learn about control dramas as we ever did. This secrecy amongst us is definitely polarizing us which might ultimately cause another violent revolution. It will be those at the top of the hierarchy that will need to examine and rectify the situation before it happens. I'm not so optimistic that these secret-keepers are smart enough to figure this out. Secrets are our enemy. Mark Hunziker ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- All rights reserved to WUFOC and N-RKONTAKT. If you reprint or quote any part of the content, you must give credit to: WUFOC, the free UFO-alternative on the Internet, http://www.wufoc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Strange Universe Requests... From: Steve Nalepa <s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:28:25 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:27:05 -0500 Subject: Strange Universe Requests... Hello all! Hope everyone is having a good year thus far, and I wish you all well in '97. We here at Strange Universe are doing a several day series on Area 51, underground bases/tunnels, and the government hush hush factor. I am looking for some new leads in the Area 51 scenario, and I was wondering if anyone could recommend people for me to talk to or any good ideas for a piece. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, so if you have new info or know someone who does, please send me an e-mail or give me a call (I can call you if you don't want to have to pay for the call) at: Strange Universe Steve Nalepa (818) 972-9816 x211 e-mail: s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com Thanks in advance. Peace, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:31:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:36:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:40:13 -0600 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode >References: <2.2.32.19970117131219.0071ea8c@mail.globalserve.net> >Apology to MW #76 (For January 17, 1997) >As regards Courtney Brown, and last night's performance, >I'm aghast with the depth of the lie. >But more shocking still is defense of this *source* >That hoaxed, and continues to FLY. >Brown's reasons for silence *seem* honorable, >But this only occurs on the surface. >The *prof* spit in our face, ensured Courtney's disgrace >And enigma has gained its new purchase. >Art Bell was benumbed and befuddled. >Whitley was quiet with rage. . . >But what's left for _you_ gentle reader, >As we grope for what's next on the page? > Lehmberg ========================================== Hi Al, hi all, Looks like it all comes down to April Fools Day! Old Charlie Hickson (Pascagoula case) ran around in 1991 telling anyone who'd listen that the ET's were definitly going to land in 1992. As recently as last week a large number of Israeli's waited on a beach for an ET appearance that never came. Now Courtney Brown has taken a flying leap into the black hole of ET contact prediction and put up the credibility of his Far Sight Institute as collateral. The shame of it is that the invaluable work of exploring the human power of remote viewing will likely suffer dramatically if "First Contact" doesn't happen on April 1st. I'm sorry that Whitley allowed himself to get sucked into this mess. Art Bell is just, "Art Bell"!!! Don't much care what happens to Dr B.! The good news is, we won't have to wait much longer to find out one way or another who's right and who's not. The comet will come back into view on January 23rd, and increase in brightness and visibility until it reaches closest approach, (123 million miles) on April 1st. "Que sera, sera"! (What will be, will be!) John Velez jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:15:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:35:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:40:13 -0600 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode >References: <2.2.32.19970117131219.0071ea8c@mail.globalserve.net> >Apology to MW #76 (For January 17, 1997) >As regards Courtney Brown, and last night's performance, >I'm aghast with the depth of the lie. >But more shocking still is defense of this *source* >That hoaxed, and continues to FLY. >Brown's reasons for silence *seem* honorable, >But this only occurs on the surface. >The *prof* spit in our face, ensured Courtney's disgrace >And enigma has gained its new purchase. >Art Bell was benumbed and befuddled. >Whitley was quiet with rage. . . >But what's left for _you_ gentle reader, >As we grope for what's next on the page? > > Lehmberg@snowhill.com >(*)! Rhymes don't validate your opinion. CB said his remote viewing was done on the comet itself and the "companion", NOT the picture. The picture can easily be fake and the rest unrelated. If I was a real ass, I might have tried to do the same thing. There's a sucker born every minute and some of them even have PHD's! Let's not condemn everyone for one person's lie. I would be the first to smash the face in of anyone who dared to stuff me into their cauldron of dishonesty based purely on how close I was standing to it. It's called guilt by assosiation, the cheapest shot the debunkery/ disinfo clan can pull. I bet they are having gut-aches from all the laughter. Joel Henry ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:12:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:41:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 At 12:29 PM 1/17/97 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:40:13 -0600 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode >Apology to MW #76 (For January 17, 1997) >As regards Courtney Brown, and last night's performance, >I'm aghast with the depth of the lie. >But more shocking still is defense of this *source* >That hoaxed, and continues to FLY. >Brown's reasons for silence *seem* honorable, >But this only occurs on the surface. >The *prof* spit in our face, ensured Courtney's disgrace >And enigma has gained its new purchase. >Art Bell was benumbed and befuddled. >Whitley was quiet with rage. . . >But what's left for _you_ gentle reader, >As we grope for what's next on the page? > Lehmberg@snowhill.com I don't see what the excitment is all about. According to the sources often quoted here, the object, i.e. Hale-Bopp, with it's alleged companion<???> is slated to make it's closest approach by April, is that correct? If this is the case, all you have to do is ignore all the crap and just wait until that date comes and goes and SEE if ANYTHING HAPPENS. It's just that simple. It's a waste of time and energy to argue back and forth about all of this. If the object exists, then it will be verified on it's closest approach. If it doesn't then that will be shown also. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 A New Reality From: atlantis@globalserve.net (<Eilios><Nick Kirkos>) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:18:37 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:45:24 -0500 Subject: A New Reality A NEW REALITY by Jeremy Clark Recent advances in modern physics tell us that we live in a multidimensional interconnected world (1.). At a quantum level, we have a dual nature. We can have wavelike properties, or distinct matter like qualities. In fact, all entities in our universe have this duality. Remote viewers (6.) use the bio-energetic principle to tune into the wave like vibrations of their target. This target can be a person, or an object. In fact it can be anything. Big business is beginning to discover the results of psi research that has filtered into the public domain. Science and religion are now truly beginning to merge. To many, these events are very disturbing. It is deeply distressing to think that we don't know all the answers and that the beliefs we grew up with may not be appropriate anymore. Contemporary phenomena, such as UFOs, crop circles, animal mutilations and alien abductions bring out peoples' hysteria, and these events are laughed at and treated with derision by the main stream. Popularity of television shows such as the X-Files indicate otherwise. People know at a fundamental level that the unexplainable is happening and that is important. Carl Jung, the well-known Swiss psychologist, was very concerned about the meaning of UFOs back in 1950 (2.). Our current world situation is very grim in several respects. The western world continues to worship technology at the expense of the environment on which everyone's life depends. The so-called third world is characterized byexponential population increase. It is naive to think that this situation can continue. It cannot. Our species is definitely doomed given our present situation. We may have a smoke-free environment, but who will be alive ? . At a recent MIT(3) conference, researchers from all over the world gathered to discuss the Alien Abduction phenomenon. Ordinary people in many countries are having similar traumatic experiences with various extra- or intra-terrestrial entities. The main stream explains these happenings as a collective type of hallucination, sleep paralysis, or geophysical stresses causing electromagnetic fields that disturb the brain. The problem continues, and brave people attempt to understand and help those involved (4, 5). UFO sightings occur on a regular basis worldwide. Many turn out to be explainable by ordinary events. A sizeable number, however, cannot be accounted for. Military pilots, police fficers and other credible people have seen UFO's. Again, the mainstream ridicules those who claim to have seen UFOs. The sightings continue, often accompanied by other bizarre happenings such as crop circles, and animal mutilations. There are many sites on the Internet World Wide Web where recent articles, pictures and even videos are available. Yes the truth is out there recorded by everyday men and women. Our world is changing. In many ways, as we expand our thoughts, they take on their own life-their vibrations form a "morphic resonance"(8). As we discover the new dimensions of our universe, we will confront other entities and beliefs. It is necessary to do so, however. Our situation is perilous. We cannot persist in our present direction. We must evolve or perish. Possibilities are before us and we must seize them. 1."Hyperspace", M.Kaku, Anchor Books, New York 1994, ISBN 0-385-47705-8 2."Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen In The Sky", C. G. Jung, Princeton University Press, Bollingen Series, 1978. 3."Close Encounters Of The Fourth Kind: Alien Abductions, UFO's, And The Conference AT MIT, C. D. B Bryan, Knopf, New York 1995. 4."Abduction: Human Encounters With Aliens", J. E. Mack, Scribners, New York 1994. 5."Secret Life: Firsthand Accounts Of UFO Abductions", D. M. Jacobs, Simon & Schuster, New York 1992. 6."Cosmic Voyage: A Scientific Discovery Of Extraterrestrials Visiting Earth. 7."Above Top Secret The Worldwide UFO Cover-up", T. Good, M. Graham, 8."A New Science of Living", Rupert Sheldrake, Tarcher, Los Angeles, 1983
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 DISPATCH #36 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:14:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:39:12 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH #36 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #36 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 1/17/97 Quote of the Week "Tom Hanks as Forrest Gump, because even though he was innocent and inexperienced, everything he touched came out all right." --Ubermodel Claudia Schiffer quoted in "George" magazine, discussing what person she would model herself after if she were president. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ By George, That's a Conspiracy! You know, folks, it's funny sometimes how much you have in common with others. Take ParaScope and "George" magazine, for instance. We both cover politics from an "alternative" angle, we both appear on AOL and the web -- heck, even our founders have a...well, higher-than-usual interest in the assassination of John F. Kennedy. In fact, when you enter the AOL "George" site (AOL keyword: george, or www.georgemag.com on the web), the voice of JFK, Jr. personally greets you and welcomes you to the site. (He leaves off the "junior" from the end of his name now, by the way.) But imagine our surprise when we saw "George" pushing a feature it calls "Conspiracy of the Week!" (We're still trying to locate this feature -- about all we've found is a message board full of such conspiracies as "Gore is an Alien," "What if O.J. Didn't Do It?" and "Tupac Faked His Death.") We would respectfully suggest that the founder of "George" concern himself with other, perhaps more well-known and wide-reaching conspiracies, particularly political assassinations, but that would probably be viewed as being in poor taste. So instead, we encourage ParaScope loyalists to post their own messages in the "George" 'Conspiracies!!' folder, perhaps informing folks of alternative sites online (such as ParaScope) where conspiracies are discovered. Just don't tell 'em we sent ya. We don't want JFK (Jr.?) getting mad at us! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Lucky ParaScope Member Wins Trip to Roswell, NM ParaScope is thrilled to announce that Chris J. Norton, of Stockton, Calif., and a guest are the lucky winners of an all-expense paid trip to Roswell, New Mexico! Congratulations to Chris, who entered the iNSCAPE software/ParaScope contest at iNSCAPE's Drowned God site in ParaScope. Scores of other lucky winners will receive other prizes, including Drowned God hologram puzzles and even copies of iNSCAPE's "Drowned God: Conspiracy of the Ages" CD-ROM game. To see if you've won, find out more about Drowned God, or buy the game, go to keyword: drownedgod on AOL or click on the Drowned God banner at our web site. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on the dates noted on America Online, or next Thursday on the web site! Monday, Jan 20: CSETI Goes on the Offensive The Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence has announced that it will hold public hearings on UFO/ETI events and projects, seeking testimony from dozens of former and current military, intelligence and defense contractor witnesses. Topics covered will include: retrieval of disabled extraterrestrial devices and extraterrestrial life forms, reverse-engineering projects related to extraterrestrial technology, reconnaissance and tracking of UFO/Extraterrestrial vehicles, covert projects related to the subject, confirmation of military/UFO encounter cases, and the nature and scope of disinformation programs related to the subject. Pinch yourself, you're not dreaming. Will the truth emerge, or will they end up chasing their tails? Get the scoop on CSETI's hearings. ----------------------- Tuesday, Jan 21: Clinton Scandal Archive, Inauguration Edition! Here's an "alternative" political story (dare we say a...conspiracy?!) you won't find in the pages of "George!" As Richard Milhous Clinton prepares his inauguration speech, a White House report on a "media conspiracy" against the Clinton regime surfaces. "The media is out to get me" -- where have we heard this before?! ParaScope celebrates the return of Baelzebubba with a special inauguration edition of the Clinton Scandal Archive, your one-stop shopping outlet for hard documents on the Slick One's numerous transgressions. ----------------------- Wednesday, Jan 22: James Earl Ray Knocking on Death's Door The wings of death are fluttering over the head of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s supposed assassin. Although he initially confessed to MLK's murder, James Earl Ray immediately recanted, insisting that he was part of a much larger conspiracy to murder MLK. Hoping to assert his innocence before dying, Ray has a state court hearing in Memphis in less than a month to request new scientific tests on the rifle which tied him to the murder. Will Ray survive to see these tests conducted? Will the man serving time for killing MLK be given the liver transplant necessary to keep him alive long enough to see the results of the test? ----------------------- Thursday, Jan 23: The Anti-Gravity Machine It may sound wacky, nigh on impossible, but scientists in a Finland laboratory accidentally discovered that their superconductor invention created an anti-gravity field. Well, not total anti-gravity; it only decreased the weight of an object by 2%, but their findings were still remarkable. Yet suddenly, after trumpeting their invention and making a big stir, the scientists went strangely silent, and no one seems to know exactly what's going on. (Anyone remember cold fusion?) Did they realize their machine didn't really work... or is there a conspiracy to cover up this potentially earth-shattering breakthrough? ----------------------- Friday, Jan 24: The Defense Department's Cyberwar Manifesto The Pentagon recently released a report warning of an "electronic Pearl Harbor" at the hands of hackers, terrorists and subversives -- you know, the usual boogeymen that the National Security State pulls out of its bag of tricks whenever it is getting ready to shaft American people. As part of its program of "countermeasures," which are intended to serve as a guide for "international banks" and other targets of opportunity, the Pentagon seeks the legal right to retaliate against users it suspects are attempting to hack DOD computers and networks by injecting "enemy" computers with "a polymorphic virus that wipes out the system, takes it down for weeks." Will the "search and destroy" warfare model prevail in the unexplored regions of cyberspace? +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Crop Circles: Hoaxes? 1/3 From: "William Sawyers" <wsawers@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:50:01 +1300 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:28:40 -0500 Subject: Crop Circles: Hoaxes? 1/3 Please excuse me if I am wasting bandwidth but I hadn't seen this, so just in case newer members havent seen it either I post it (again?). Rather sad eh that most if not all CC are hoaxes? Especially for Colin Andrews and his dowsing. William Sawers "The Truth is ....Hidden!" (sometimes) The Crop Watcher Number 23 Autumn 1994 Editorial First let me begin by apologising yet again for the unacceptable lateness of this issue. The reason for this delay is quite simple. Regular readers will know that in August I visited the National Monument Record in Swindon to see if I could find any evidence of historical crop circles in the aerial photographic archive. To my pleasant surprise I did find something important, but unfortunately I have faced a succession of frustrating problems in evaluating this important evidence. To begin with, it took three attempts and six weeks for my local photographic shop to enlarge the wrong parts of the photograph. Then I had to contact some aerial archaeologists to gain their professional opinion on what I had found. One archaeologist promised he would respond by mid November but unfortunately his workload prevented him from doing so. I have therefore decided to hold this article back to my next issue, something I should have done in October. I am very sorry for this and can assure readers that it won't happen again. Hopefully issue 24 will be ready for printing by late January. At this stage I must emphasise that the value of the photographic evidence I have discovered hangs very much in the balance. One aerial archaeologist who has inspected the print is convinced that the circular traces are all archaeological in origin. However, two other archeologists disagree. You'll have to wait and see before deciding for yourselves ! Now onto more important things. Wiltshire Crop Rings in the 1920s The following article appeared in the Reading-Evening Post on August 4th 1994 :- "Corn Fairies played tricks in the 1920s Crop circles have been around for at least 100 years, according to a Reading woman. The claim comes after circles were discovered recently on a farmer's field at Ipsden near Reading. Constance Wheeler, 78, of [address deleted], remembers the mysterious patterns being discovered in the 1920s when she lived in Wiltshire. This contradicts the belief repeated in the media that they started appearing about a decade ago. But Mrs Wheeler said they were known as fairy circles at the time because no one knew who made them. She said 'I was eight years old when I first heard of fairy circles. My uncle, Teddy Lawes, came into tea laughing. It was a Thursday market day and he had been with his farmer friends at the Bear Hotel in Devizes market place. There they had met a farmer who had been swearing like a trooper because he had found four big circles and some small ones in his corn'. The farmer was shouting what he would do with the person who had made them. But Mr Lawes told him jokingly he would never catch them because the fairies had made them. He explained that he had seen a spate of them 20 years previously and his family had tried to make the corn stand up again but could not. Mrs Wheeler said 'I do not know what causes corn circles. I do not believe in fairies myself but I believe the circles existed 70, even 100, years ago'." (courtesy, Reading Evening Post). This superb account immediately suggests parallels with the numerous other claims of historical crop circles which have been published in the literature. To take just one example compare this account with the claim published by Andy Collins in The Circlemakers (pages 104-5). As a child of six Gwen Horrigan recalls seeing "fairy rings" at Whitequarry Hill near Kingham on the Oxfordshire/Gloucest-ershire border during the early years of the Second World War (page 104-5). The circles were up to 50 feet in diameter and exhibited swirl patterns and sharp cut-off edges. The Kingham circles were associated by local people with fairy lights seen in a local wood, which was said to be frequented by a witches coven. In 1960, less than 3 kms from this location, two concentric rings were found on Bill Edward's farm at nearby Evenlode. It seems significant that both these cases involved circles which were described as "fairy rings" but which did NOT involve fungal growths. In both cases the witnesses were emphatic that they were describing flattened corn laid down in circles or rings. In both cases the witnesses describe the fact that the crop was pressed down very firmly - something which other witnesses to historical crop circles have mentioned in their accounts. Bob Rickard and Andy Collins have both wondered whether circular fungal growths and crop circles have both been lumped together into one common folklore motif - the fairy ring. Doug Bower's admission on Cropcircle Communique II that natural lodging can frequently look very much like the crop circles he and Dave Chorley began making in the mid 1970s again lends credence to the idea that we have a masking effect, one which might be capable of obscuring the existence of the rare crop circles which have been reported by numerous people who have come forward to report historical cases. For the official Skeptics the existence of this most unwelcome evidence continues to be brushed aside as irrelevant. This is one of the primary reasons why The Crop Watcher exists - to continue researching and publishing evidence which other researchers seem so uncomfortable with. On November 26th 1994 I visited Constance Wheeler to find out more about this important historical case. Constance was born in 1916 and lived until she was 11 with her two uncles, Edward and William Lawes, and her two aunts, Kathleen and Margaret Lawes, at Craven House in Devizes. Her mother had secret aspirations to become a teacher and, with the help of a local clergyman, she secretly took a correspondence course at Reading University. Eventually she passed her exams and went to live and teach at the Pigott School at Wargrave near Reading. In those days it was almost unheard of for young women from rural farming communities to leave home and work elsewhere. In 1918 Constance was sent to live with her uncles and aunts when her brother was born. Originally it was intended that she should only stay for three weeks but her uncles and aunts had no children of their own and doted on her. They pleaded with Constance's mother to allow her to stay a little longer, and as this seemed to suit everyone concerned, the arrangement continued. Constance's uncle "Teddy" Lawes was an important figure in the Devizes area in the 1920s and 1930s. He was an auctioneer at Devizes market place as well as an estate agent and a property valuer. He was in partnership with Harry Ferris and must have been an imposing figure, weighing in at 17 stone. During the depression years Teddy Lawes valued many farms which went bankrupt in the Devizes area. Constance was probably eight years old when the corn circles appeared. This dates the event to August 1924 (during the school holidays). Unfortunately although Constance was fascinated when she learnt of the appearance of the circles, her intention to visit them was thwarted by a great storm which lashed down the crop and destroyed most of the evidence. For this reason Constance never saw the corn circles herself, but it is clear from her story that her two aunts and uncles did. Unfortunately they are no longer alive to question, but Constance recalled with great clarity the events of that summer as this was the first time she had ever heard of "fairy" circles. She particularly remembers asking her Aunt Kathleen about the circles. Apparently Aunty Kathleen replied that "We haven't heard of these (circles) for years". The circles appeared at Great Cheverell - within a couple of miles of Melvyn Bell's 1983 observation of a whirlwind creating a corn circle - and the precise location was probably on a farm owned by a Mr Shepherd. Unfortunately the Reading Evening Post article confuses Constance's description of the 1924 event with an earlier event recalled by her Aunty Kathleen (see below) but Constance recalls quite clearly that her uncles and aunts examined two quite large rings in an unknown crop (probably wheat). Like many modern circles the heads of the crop were undamaged and there was no indication that the rings were man-made. Unfortunately Constance does not recall any mention of how sharply defined the rings were but she was adamant that according to her aunts all the crop pointed in one direction. I questioned Constance very carefully about how her relatives tried to rationalise the "fairy circles". According to her uncles and aunts, no one knew how the rings were made and it was a complete mystery to everyone in the local community. By contrast the farmer, Mr Shepherd, was convinced that the rings were made by vandals and - as the Reading Evening Post article suggests - he was very angry and knew exactly what he would do if he caught them ! Apparently no one ever came under suspicion for having made the circles and no prosecutions were ever bought. According to Constance Wheeler Teddy Lawes did consider it possible that the rings were made by a whirlwind but this was no more than a guess. Unfortunately the Reading Evening Post article mistakenly attributes the "fairy ring" explanation to Constance's uncle, Teddy Lawes. However, the claim had actually been made by an Irish tinker who had briefly worked in the district. His suggestion that Shepherd would never catch the fairies who made the circles on his land was treated as a joke by everyone concerned. I questioned Constance carefully about some of the claims that have been made about rural superstitions which have been linked by some writers with the crop circle phenomenon. She recalls nothing to support the claim that crop circles were believed to be dangerous to enter or were associated with the Devil. In her opinion they were just viewed as an unusual local mystery. The Earlier Crop Circles As a child of eight Constance was naturally very curious about the crop rings and she eagerly pressed her aunts and uncles for more information about the fairy circles they recalled from earlier years. This earlier event took place some twenty years previously - around the turn of the century - and is also referred to in the Reading Evening Post article. This event occurred on Constance's grandfather's farm - known to the family as Lawes' Farm, but which was was also called Cornbury Farm. This farm is still located near Tilshead in the middle of Salisbury Plain and retains its name to this date (OSGR SU 005499). The earlier event involved six rings in wheat which almost touched eachother. Constance recalled her aunt's description of the crop being laid down "in perfect rings" which looked as though they had been "made by a compass" - exactly the same description used by John Llewellyn to describe the double rings he saw at Evenlode, Gloucestershire, in June 1960. The rings were laid out in a line and the four larger rings were adjacent to eachother at one end of the formation. Cornbury Farm is only four miles south of Great Cheverell and is surrounded by the rolling downland of Salisbury Plain. The Cornbury Farm rings were not as big as those which featured in the 1924 event but were as big as a room - perhaps 15 feet or more in diameter. Constance's aunt recalls that they tried to lift the fallen wheat with walking sticks and umbrellas but it had been flattened so hard that whenever the crop was lifted it flopped down again. Constance moved to Reading during the 1930s and for many years was employed as a civil servant in the Ministry of Works at Whiteknights Park, Reading. Assessment Constance Wheeler told her story to the Reading Evening Post because although she didn't know what caused the circles recalled from her childhood she wanted to contradict media claims that corn circles first appeared about a decade ago. It seems quite astonishing in the light of numerous repeated consistent claims like this that the official Skeptics continue to claim that crop circles are "new" and have no reliable historical precedents. It seems even more astonishing that the same motifs - the association of the circles with the fairy folk - should arise in both the Gwen Horrigan case and the Constance Wheeler case. With coincidences like this we are surely dealing with consistent accounts of a rare natural phenomenon. In the 1920s life in rural England was hard and it would have been unlikely that locals would have made crop circles for a game. It is important to remember that both these events occurred many years before the invention of the flying saucer mythology in 1947 so if, for sake of argument, these events were both the product of hoaxers, the only supernatural mythology available to them would have been the Irish tinker's "fairy" rings. Looking through the UFO Research Manitoba database there are several historical accounts of multiple ring formations dating back to the 1960s which are comparable to the earlier account by Constance Wheeler. In 1967 seven flattened rings appeared in a grass field at Duhamel, Alberta (Canada) . The rings were 10 metres in diameter and 15 cms wide. That same year six concentric rings were discovered in a wheat field at Willen, Manitoba (Canada). The rings were 3.9 metres in diameter and nearly 2 metres wide. In 1974 seven flattened rings were discovered at Langenburg, Saskatchewan, in a field of grass. The rings varied between 3 and 4 metres in diameter and were 46 cms wide. Readers will recall that this was the controversial UFO case discussed in CW15 and IUR volume 17 no 2. Both the earlier case and the 1924 case discussed above formed on or near rolling downland - one of the prerequisites for Meaden's atmospheric vortex theory. The 1924 event took place 36 years before an eye witness claims that he saw a crop circle being created by a whirlwind on a hot summers afternoon only a few miles away. It is known that under stable atmospheric conditions natural ring-shaped vortices can form which would be perfectly capable of creating the phenomena described by Constance Wheeler's relatives, particularly if they were located close to hillslopes. It seems clear that these are excellent candidates for an atmospheric explanation, although it has to be accepted that the involvement of six almost-touching rings in the earlier case begs important questions about how multiple ring vortices can be generated at the same time. Our thanks go to Constance for her courage in coming forward with this important account. Dr W.C. Levengood, John A. Burke, Lab Report No 18, the FE3 Project and the H-Glaze Report Yet another major controversy has hit the troubled world of "cereology" with the publication of the H-Glaze Report by Dr W.C. Levengood and his co-worker John A. Burke, in the United States. Readers will already know from lengthy articles in The Cerealogist and The Circular about the controversial work being conducted by Dr W.C. Levengood and John A. Burke at Pinelandia Biophysical Laboratories (an impressive sounding name, but in fact merely a laboratory attached to Dr Levengood's private address). Over the past few years a number of "Lab Reports" have been issued proclaiming the latest discoveries by these researchers. As someone with postgraduate training in experimental design methods I was naturally interested in what Levengood and Burke have been up to ! Lab Report No 18 In "Lab Report No 18" Levengood and Burke describe what they call a "Technique for Examining Crop Circle Energetics". Readers will recall that one of the major criticisms made against the crop circle researchers by sociologists in the "Equinox" documentary was this vague use of that term "energy". So far my attempts to find out what kinds of "energetics" are being analysed by Levengood and Burke have met with failure. In the meantime it is perhaps safe to say that as a professional statistician I found their description of their methodology confusing and disquieting. Levengood and Burke claim that they have developed two verification methods that are capable of distinguishing "genuine" crop circles from fakes. These two tests are the amplitude coefficient (also referred to as the "alpha test") and the use of seedling development rates (ie growth rates). These tests have apparently indicated that "something is altering the rate at which ions flow through the affected crop". Levengood and Burke state that they have established that trampling cannot produce the statistical results they are discovering in "genuine" circles because they have compared their test results with results produced by provably man-made circles. Strangely, this finding didn't stop them from promoting crop taken from Jim Schnabel's Dharmic Wheel as genuine products of the rapid heat-inducing circle-making mechanism. In this reviewer's opinion, there are many problems with the claims made in Lab Report No 18. To begin with, Levengood and Burke appear to confuse the terms "sample" and "population". Also, they appear to have exaggerated the importance of the results they have obtained. Quoting chances of "less than one in a million" for their test results Levengood and Burke do not appear to appreciate that it is inappropriate to calculate binomial probabilities when ratio data is available. Reading through Lab Report No 18 I must admit that I have found it difficult to understand how these two researchers have analysed their data. They claim that "Each sample run involves five alpha values per trace. The current procedure involves six replicate tests on individual bracts (each selected from a different plant if available). Controls and crop circle samples are ran [sic] in alternate tests. The 30 data points (alphas) are entered into a computer program ("Statview") which provides a convenient means of statistically analysing many aspects of the data population. The most reliable, consistent information from the thirty alpha values is based on a statistical analysis of the paired, thirty data point alpha populations". Again Burke and Levengood use the term "population" when they mean "sample". I have read this statement over and over again, and I still don't understand how one can apply a "paired" analysis of "six replicate tests" on each plant. A "paired" analysis involves comparing two values, not six ! The correct method of analysing the kind of data discussed in Lab Report No 18 is to conduct a two-way analysis of variance. In this way one can test whether or not there are statistically significant differences between samples of crop taken inside the formation and samples of crop taken from outside fformations, taking into account the natural variations in the alpha values of samples in both groups. Such an analysis would only be representative of crop circles in general if the samples taken were truly independent of eachother within each formation and if these tests were repeated in numerous formations chosen at random across the world. Unfortunately Lab Report No 18 examines samples taken from just one formation, the 1993 ringed circle in oats at Albertsville in Canada. Unfortunately, by taking "six replicate tests" on the same plants it is debatable whether or not these researchers have collected a truly random sample. For this reason not only have Levengood and Burke conducted the wrong statistical test but they may well have invalidated any results they obtain because they failed to satisfy one of the primary assumptions underlying almost every statistical test ever conducted ! However, the greatest problem with Lab Report No 18 is Levengood and Burkes' curious decision to alter PROX-10 from a control reading into a circle reading in their Figure 4 (approximately reproduced in Figure 1 on page 6). This decision cannot possibly be justified because it completely alters the outcome of the results of the alpha test ! In the top half of Figure 1 we have reproduced Levengood and Burkes' results by drawing the average alpha value for each sample. Levengood and Burke have drawn a line through the highest control average (Cont-7) to emphasise how all the average alpha values taken inside the circle and ring are higher. However, this decision ignores the fact that PROX-10 - a sample taken in unaffected crop close to the formation - produces an average alpha value which is higher than four of the six circle and ring samples ! If we redraw Figure 1 by correctly treating PROX-10 as a control sample (rather than a sample taken from inside the formation), then the true test result becomes clear. There is little evidence that the average alpha values are significantly higher inside the circles and rings than in surrounding, untouched crop. In other words, the alpha test provides no evidence of unusual effects. This decision to alter PROX-10 from a control sample to a "circle" sample is scientifically dishonest, for it alters the whole outcome of the experiment. It is true that two of the alpha values are higher than the PROX-10 average (CIR-1 and RING-6), but in this reviewer's opinion it must surely be expected that a two-way analysis of variance will demonstrate that there is no statistically significant difference between the average alpha values found inside the formation and those found in the surrounding crop. I say this because it is clear that there are wide variations between the average alpha values in both groups (e.g. the average alpha readings in the control samples vary from approx. 0.022 and 0.075, whilst the average alpha values of samples taken within the circle vary from 0.038 to 0.090). Unfortunately Levengood and Burke have failed to publish the data they used in Lab Report No 18 so I cannot test this conclusion properly. The True Extent of Hoaxing One of the problems with this research is that it is apparent from their own published work that Levengood and Burke seem blithely unaware of the true extent of hoaxing in Britain. Levengood's recent promotion of Jim Schnabel's Dharmic Wheel formation seems an excellent example of the way in which the crop circle myth continues to flourish because of the mass suppression of pro-hoax evidence by leading cerealogists. Of course Levengood and Burke claim to be searching for an infallible method of distinguishing real from fake - something we would all love to see - but this is no excuse for not having done their homework on recent events. The H-GLAZE REPORT In July 1994 an even bigger controversy broke with the publication of what has been called the H-Glaze Report. The author, John A. Burke, begins by claiming that he and Levengood have made an "extraordinary discovery" following their analysis of some reddish-brown glazed chalk found by Peter Sorensen in two formations that lay close to the 1993 Cherhill pictogram. Sorensen would have preferred to examine these circles immediately but - unfortunately - Busty Taylor had to return home that evening for an appointment. Sorensen returned to the site two days later, accompanied by a neighbour. According to an amicable farmer the circles had arrived a week or so earlier and that originally parts of the circles had been covered by "a dark grey mist" which had been largely washed away by heavy rain. When Sorensen arrived both formations had been harvested. The first formation was shaped like a tear-drop (in fact like a "Nautilus") and exhibited multiple swirls and complex layering effects. Sorensen noted that the dust was concentrated inside the swirls and resembled soot. As he videoed the formation Sorensen largely dismissed the possibility of a prank because the dust appeared "almost accidental". However, as he looked more closely Sorensen discovered a "reddish-brown, dull glaze" on lumps of chalk and pebbles. A smaller concentration of dust and coated chalk was discovered in the second formation, a circle with an arc, which lay close by. Levengood's Analysis According to the H-Glaze Report, Levengood subjected the glaze to a spectroscopic analysis. He discovered that the particles were composed of iron and oxygen (FE). According to Levengood's reasoning this didn't make any sense, because had these originated from the soil there should have been traces of calcium and silicon as well, but strangely there was none. Microscopic study revealed that the glaze was composed of "thousands of partially-fused tiny spheres" which contained both magnetite (Fe O) and hermatite (Fe O). As the particles were magnetized, the "glaze" acquired an "H" - the chemical symbol for magnetism. Finding no evidence of a "terrestrial system" that could account for such unusual particles Levengood and Burke mounted an "extensive" literature search to discover if such material had been discovered before. Astonishingly they concluded that the only way particles containing both iron and oxygen could have appeared in a crop formation was if it had been deposited during a meteor shower ! In their preliminary report Levengood and Burke go into great detail about how the surface of a meteorite would become molten as it enters the earth's atmosphere. During this state the outer surface of the meteorite is blown off and solidifies into tiny spheres that oxidise (rust) and fall to earth. Somewhat conveniently this process is said to take days or even weeks. Levengood and Burke hypothesize that this dust was released during an unusually intense Perseid meteor shower, which apparently peaked nearly two weeks earlier. During their microscopic examination of the particles they noticed "mud-crack" patterns and bubbles where the molten meteoritic droplets had partially refused. Attempting to explain why the molten droplets had failed to burn the wheat Levengood and Burke propose that the moisture inside the stems evaporated and produced water droplets on the stems, thus insulating them from the effect of the heat. This "Leidenfrost effect" insulated the stems from burning. Levengood and Burke were so excited by their discovery that they quickly circulated the H-Glaze Report to numerous sources, urging cereologists to "make magnets a standard part of their field equipment" to locate more meteoric dust. Furthermore, the authors claim that "This incident provides rare, direct evidence for a theoretical model of crop formation - the plasma vortex - that had previously been indicated only in an indirect way." They go on to cite confirmation of their results by stating that the affected wheat stems exhibited "dramatic differences" to control samples in terms of the alpha test and measured growth rates. In their conclusions Levengood and Burke grandly claim to represent "the scientific community of the world" and they challenge hoaxers to explain how they managed to "scavenge the atmosphere for meteoric dust, re-heat it and lay it down just right with no contamination". They predict that crop formations will appear more frequently following meteor showers than at any other time. The Sting ? Well, if all the claims made by Levengood and Burke were really supportable we would have a major breakthrough which would make one giant conceptual leap in our understanding of the crop circle phenomenon. However, as we have come to expect in this business, the circlemakers were not about to let Levengood and Burke get away with such an astonishing claim without some kind of fightback - oh no ! On July 25th 1994 Robert Irving wrote to John Burke. Irving's letter stated :- "It is not our primary interest to contradict your findings ... It is instead our intention to use your report as textual source material for an upcoming exhibition to be held on behalf of The Agency Gallery, in London. The piece in question (entitled 'Fe3') will comprise a museum style glass cabinet with text displayed on the glass. Inside the cabinet, beyond the text, will be a standard Oxford University chemistry laboratory bottle containing fine-grade iron filings. This bottle was originally addressed, labelled, and postmarked to correspond with the crop formation which constitutes the subject of your report ... and will be displayed in it's original state. Remaining samples of the 'grey dust' will also be shown. All text will be fully credited to you, citing the tests and conclusions of Dr W.C. Levengood. The context of the piece can be loosely summarised by the following theoretical equation: If science is incongruous to mysticism, and the mystical is represented through art, should 'bogus' science be elevated to an art form ? Certainly the gallery concerned seems to think so, and our fingers feeling the pulse of a growing trend towards millenialist awareness would seem to confirm this." We have reproduced Irving's own photograph of the laboratory bottle on page 8. This bottle was exhibited at a London Art Gallery on the South Bank during September and the accompanying text is reproduced on page. BBC2's "The Late Show" took an interest in the iron fillings exhibit and they filmed an interview with Irving during September [for proof, ring Matthew Collings at the Beeb]. Meanwhile, a furious argument has developed between Levengood and Burke, on the one hand, and Irving and Montague Keen, on the other. Irving has sent samples of the original batch of iron filings to Montague Keen and offered them to Levengood and Burke, who so far have failed to accept this offer. Irving's intention is to allow all three to compare these samples with the glaze discovered in the Cherhill formations. Keen has very sensibly suggested that these samples, and those found in the Cherhill formations, be subjected to an independent test by a reputable laboratory to establish whether or not they are one and the same thing. Tellingly, at the time of writing, Burke and Levengood have yet to respond to this offer. Furthermore, both Burke and Levengood have failed to supply full answers to a series of detailed statistical questions I sent to them during late September (letters available as usual). It is perhaps not surprising that these researchers have refused to be drawn into this affair any further considering their promotion of "dramatic differences" between Irving's iron filing-coated seeds and controls. Were they to do so, and if Irving's claims are true, then the fallacy of the much vaunted alpha tests would be exposed for all to see. Conclusions The H-Glaze Report is yet another amusing story in the long-running crop circle hoax, another testament to the failure of researchers to attain true objectivity in their work, and another telling lesson to the power of the anomaly myth. No one can doubt the sincerity of Levengood and Burke, and their dedication to their work deserves praise. But this work is fatally flawed for two primary reasons - the desperate desire to find an anomalous explanation on the part of Levengood and Burke, and their seeming naivety when it comes to understanding the true extent of the hoax evidence and the mass cover-up of that evidence by the believer groups these past few years. Oh well, all's fair in love and war ! Stop Press Dr Levengood has had an article published in Physiologia Plantarum 92 - a properly refereed scientific journal of the kind that even the Wessex Skeptics presumably take seriously. This article again promotes the alpha test and enhanced growth rates as measures of how to verify "genuine" crop circles. A full article will appear in our next issue discussing this astonishing development. The Wiltshire Crop Circle Farce Regular readers will already be aware of the numerous claims and counter claims about hoaxing in deepest Wiltshire over the past few years. It doesn't take a PhD or two to work out that Southern Britain is now completely saturated with mischievous yet benign "circlemakers" keeping the UFO myth alive and kicking as they run rings around the True Believers. These circlemakers have infiltrated all the believer groups and - as with Doug and Daves' deft tactics - they learn how to satisfy the needs of the True Believers by simply listening to them at believer conferences and in smokey public houses. This year your Editor has learnt that there are many new groups of circlemakers operating from the Beck-hampton area of Wiltshire. These new circlemakers meet at The Barge public house in Honey Street (half a mile to the south of Alton Barnes). Despite the fact that the general public lost interest with the crop circle subject several years ago an entertaining battle continues to rage between two directly opposed belief systems - a religious war between the growing numbers of circle makers and the True Believers desperate to deny the reality of the Great Crop Circle Hoax. Where this war will take us, nobody knows. On the humorous side The Crop Watcher has learnt that one group of True Believers are driving around the darkened lanes of Wiltshire in a vehicle marked as the "Hoax Buster" (it has a distinctive flashing light and is based on the "Ghostbusters" film). In another celebrated incident a well known farmer's wife stuffed a potato up the exhaust pipe of a car belonging to Adrian Dexter. We have also learnt that during one night of bitter recriminations at The Barge plans were well developed to push Adrian Dexter's car into the Kennet and Avon canal as a punishment for his alleged nocturnal activities. During interviews with several sources your Editor has been informed of numerous names of people allegedly engaged in making crop circles. These names include Andy Batey, Rod Dickinson, Robert Irving, Vince Palmer, Simon Shedlar, Paul Pilson (??) and Lee Winterson. Some of these names appear as bona fide witnesses in Andy Collins' controversial new book Alien Energy (to be reviewed in full in our next issue). In a lengthy interview with a "deep throat" source The Crop Watcher has learnt that Andy Batey has admitted to making the seven legged formation in East Field this summer. From what I can tell it is common knowledge that - Andy Batey claimed that he was intending to make a circle with keys at Lurkeley Hill which subsequently appeared; - "Paul Pilson" has admitted to overlaying a circle on top of a pre-existing "nautilus" at Cherhill in 1994; - Lee Winterson has boasted that he made several formations in the Alton Barnes area; and - Andy Batey has admitted that Vince Palmer has made circles in Wiltshire. Readers may also be interested to learn that Paul Vigay, a CCCS Council member and field officer who runs something called the Independent Research Centre for Unexplained Phenomena (IRCUP) from an address in Portsmouth, mixes with these circle makers at The Barge but makes not the slightest mention of this fact in Enigma, the magazine Vigay edits and publishes on behalf of his "world-wide" research organisation (the letter heading features an artist's impression of the alleged "Grey" alien of UFO folklore). In a recent letter to your Editor Paul Vigay admits that he has seen hoaxers placing "artifacts" inside crop circles in Wiltshire. For some reason Vigay refuses to name these circle makers or how he seems to know who these hoaxers are. It is suspected that Vigay has film of these circlemakers in the process of making circles, a claim which Vigay has not denied. In several extensive interviews with a second "deep throat" source your Editor has learnt that a group of around one dozen circlemakers are claiming responsibility for having made every single formation which has appeared in Southern Britain this summer. This claim is supported by the fact that many of the 1994 formations were based on a common theme - the so-called Scorpion - and that some of these designs appear in a booklet titled "A Beginners Guide to Crop Circle Making", which has been produced by the Wiltshire Circlemakers "with assistance from Fe3" (see review on page 19). Speaking to our second "deep throat" source at length one is left in not the slightest doubt about his extensive knowledge of the circumstances surrounding the appearance of this summer's most entertaining formations - eg the ever decreasing circles at Ipsden, north of Reading, a similar formation at East Dean near Goodwood in Sussex, and the Galaxy formation near Avebury in Wiltshire - to name but three examples. With each formation there is a story to tell and an amusing anecdote to recall. With each formation there is abundant mirth at the foolishness of those who continue to cling to the crop circle faith and who continue to deny evidence which the result of the world accepted long, long ago. It appears that this loose group of circlemakers are fascinated by the "false science" of the belief-centred cerealogists. It is this "false science" which provides the main motivation for the Circlemakers' activities. Whilst most people respond to the cerealogists' incredible claims with outright derision it is clear that the Wiltshire Circlemakers have decided that a more appropriate response is to "set up" the cerealogists by faking evidence for the alien intelligence believed to be responsible for the "genuine" phenomenon. A good example of the circlemakers' campaign is the furore surrounding the notorious H-Glaze report (see page 8), but it seems clear that other projects have been executed and that other, more outrageous projects, are planned. In an interview with a farmer located right in the heart of the Beckhampton area your Editor has learnt that the activities of the Wiltshire Circlemakers do not meet with the approval of local farmers. Some have spent hundreds of pounds installing new fencing in an attempt to keep the circlemakers and cerealogists at bay. Many farmers seem surprisingly unaware that the names of many leading circle makers are known, that some have confessed to having made specific circles and that allegations of complicity with local farmers have been made. The farmer I spoke to described circlemaking as "mindless destruction". He also felt that it was extremely unlikely that genuine farmers would damage their own fields. Unfortunately, because of the terms of his tenancy agreement, this particular farmer felt that it would be unwise to speak out publicly against the circlemakers and their activities. However, he was adamant that once the names of the circlemakers are known and once these names can be tied to specific formations then actions for trespass and criminal damage would undoubtedly follow. The effect of the new Criminal Justice Act, which became law in November, will be an interesting additional component to this battle of the belief systems in darkest Wiltshire. Until
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Morphic Resonance, the Philosophy of Science and UFOs, Part 2 From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:27:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:43:16 -0500 Subject: Morphic Resonance, the Philosophy of Science and UFOs, Part 2 Vivid or Lucid Dreaming as an Experience of Morphic Resonance Vivid dreams, also known as lucid dreams, may prove to be a gateway to the reality of anomolous experiences such as encounters of the first through fifth kind, remote viewing, out of body experiences and similar kinds of extraordinary experience. Some researchers have called the vivid dream stage The Third Level of Existence. There seems a strong correlation between Sheldrake's research into morphic resonance and morphic field and vivid dreaming, particularly my own lucid dreams. Sleep researchers realize that during REM sleep (that period when your eyes are moving back and forth and you experience vivid dreams), you have, in essence, entered a different form of existence.=20 The age old quest to interpret dreams and the dream state of REM are still= =20 queries of modern sleep research. Yet, despite the efforts, REM sleep= remains=20 one of the greatest mysteries of sleep.=20 Dr. William Dement=B9 , one of the fathers of modern sleep research, suggests that your brain is working harder in REM sleep than when you are awake. Dement points out that the brain, without the help of the external senses, creates an entirely hallucinatory world and places the self in this world. The sense of reality is as strong as in the wakened world.=20 Using Sheldrake's paradigm of morphic resonance and the extended mind/brain activity within morphic fields, the vivid dream state is not entirelly "hallucinatory" and may not be hallucinatory at all. By examining vivid dreams and putting them to the test, so to speak, it may be possible to validate the vivid dream as an extension of normal consciousness=20 combined with certain altered or meditative states. Some "dream" experiments have included volunteers who wore red spectacles during their waking hours. When these persons went to sleep, it was found that their early dream periods (in the first REM cycles of that night's sleep) had many red images. As the night went on, the red images faded. This led researchers to conclude that dreams in the early night reflect recent experiences, while dreams later in the night deal with the more distant past.=20 Many theories about REM sleep have been espoused. It is suggested that dreams help organize memories into patterns that help learning. Dreams allow us to re-experience events and then put them back into storage. People deprived of REM sleep will spend more time in that stage on a subsequent night. Certainly the organization of memory into patterns suggests Sheldrake's morphic resonance and morphic fields hypothesis. Sleep studies at the Weizmann Institute in Israel found that some form of memory consolidation occurs during REM sleep. Subjects were shown various objects on a computer screen and then tested later for recall. After depriving some of the subjects of REM sleep, researchers found that memory recall was impaired in that group, while the subjects who were not=20 interrupted had no changes in the previous performance.=20 During REM periods, the brain executes tremendous amounts of sensory information. The brain signals the motor nerves, as when awake, but during REM periods it also sends a counter-command to abort motor responses.=20 When you experience vivid dreams, you are fully conscious and have a=20 keen sense of self-awareness. Your dream universe is a real place, with real= =20 time, and real people. It has vivid details that are as abundant as the wakened=20 world. In some instances, vivid dreaming can seem even more abundant in= detail and that some of these details are carried lifelong in memory, much longer than the details of ordinary experience. Dreaming is like being transported to another world - at the speed of thought!=20 Every time you sleep, your mind and body journeys through various stages or levels. This voyage has been documented by sleep research studies. Research scientists use electronic equipment which measures brain waves (EEG), body temperature, respiration and body movements. This nightly venture through the landscape of sleep would resemble a journey through a diverse countryside with vast amounts of mountains and valleys.=20 Five distinct stages or levels of sleep have been identified. During the course of an eight hour sleep period, you will cycle through the various sleep stages every 90 minutes or so.=20 Level 1 sleep is a transition period between wakefulness and sleep. Sometimes you may have a sudden dream onset. You may still be connected to the awakened world and could easily be aroused. Level 1 usually lasts only 5 minutes. This varies from person to person. Level 1 might be like floating in a swimming pool: your body is partially in the water and partially in the air.=20 Next comes Levels 3 and 4, which are somewhat similiar. This is sometimes referred to as Delta sleep because of the slow delta brain waves which have been recorded during this sleep stage. Delta sleep is a regenerative period where your body heals and repairs itself. Sometimes during illness, your body may fall immediately into Delta sleep because infection fighting antibodies are produced in greater numbers in this sleep stage. The first episode of level 3 and 4 sleep lasts from 45 to 90 minutes. Progressive episodes of Delta sleep have shorter and shorter time periods as the night= =20 goes on. After several complete sleep cycles earlier in the night, your body= =20 does not re-enter stages 3 and 4 any longer, but enters the 5th stage.=20 The fifth stage of sleep is called REM or "rapid eye movement". It is during the REM periods that you dream. Your body creates chemicals that make you temporarily paralyzed. Your mind is extremely active, and your=20 eyes are moving as if you were awake. Your heart and breathing rate= increases=20 and becomes irregular. Your eyes move from side to side. Some researchers=20 have called this stage The Third Level of Existence, in addition to wakefulness and sleep. This comes from the understanding that REM sleep is= =20 as if you had literally travelled to another world, The World of Dreams.=20 As the end of your sleep period approaches, your body temperature begins to rise. Your breathing and heart rates normalize. And you may awake suddenly, perhaps remembering a dream, as you have just ended a REM period.=20 Sleep research is one of the most fascinating new frontiers in medicine. Sleep is essential to good health. You will spend almost 1/3 of your life asleep! So much more the reason you should understand what happens=20 when you sleep!=20 Morphic Resonant Anecdote # 3: A Vivid Dream and more In a recent vivid dream, I was aware that I was on a space craft or "ufo"= and I was introduced to four individuals, each separately, one after the other. Each was brought to the room where I waited. The first three had strong beliefs that they had been abducted and manifested various degrees of terror toward the situation. I attempted to explain to each that they were in no danger and that no harm would come to them, although I did not know how any= =20 of them came to be in the craft or why we were being introduced. The first three individuals seemed to distrust everything I said and apparently believed I was a part of the same sort of "conspiracy" that=20 had brought them here. While it was obvious to me that they understood=20 and knew my words, it was as if, at the same time, I was speaking another=20 "language" and what I said made little or no difference to them. I was not= =20 viewed as an ally with more insight, I was perceived either as on of the=20 ETs or another victim, like them, but who expressed some delusions about=20 personal safety and had a lack of concern regarding the relative dangers=20 of being on an ET space craft. At least, this was my perception. The introductions were relatively brief and seemed to be some sort of=20 initial diagnostic interview staged for my benefit regarding the nature of perception and communication, essentially in response to some questions I had formulated in that regard earlier. The fourth person shared my own perception of the situation. She believed she was in no danger and that she was, like me, an experiencer of these sorts of phenomena. She was comfortable in the interview and our conversation was focused and understood. She indicated an interest in communicating with me in our "ordinary" realtime and provided me with a name with which to recognize her. She said "goodbye" and I awoke. Within a few hours, I received a "nice" e-mail message from a woman who was responding to some posts I had made recently on an internet forum. She said she appreciated reading my remarks and agreed with my observations. I noted her web page in the signature portion of her mailing and so I decided to click on this link in my Eudora Pro e-mail program. While on her web page I was startled by her photo which looked much like the fourth person I had "interviewed" in my vivid dream. I replied to the e-mail and indicated very briefly that I had had a vivid dream in which I had had an interview with a woman who looked much like=20 the photo. I said the interview took place on a "space-ship." I asked her what she thought about that, but provided no clues to the content of our brief conversation. Shortly thereafter, I received a reply from this woman stating that these sorts of experiences were quite common to her and that she had no doubt about its authenticity. She further related very specifically in her short e-mail every detail of the conversation but as a description of her own character and personality. She signed the e-mail with the same "nickname" she had provided to me in the dream. Several days later, I "observed" that someone was "remotely viewing " me and that either this person was clumsy or inexperienced or wanted me to know or was testing my own ability. I was about to "follow" this person to find out who it was, however, I was interrupted by a family member and was distracted and unable to follow through. Out of curiosity and based on my own intuition, I wrote an e-mail message to this woman, explaining that someone had just attempted an RV exercise. She replied indicating that it was she who had performed the RV session I had witnessed and then proceeded to describe in considerable detail what she had seen. She described what I had been doing and what she saw behind me. I continue to correspond with this woman on a rather modest basis. I consider her to be a friend. I assume that she is a member of this list, although we have not discussed this directly. She is also fairly well known in these circles so that I hesitate to identify her. I will give her the opportunity to confirm what I have said, if she chooses. This sort of experience is not uncommon for me either. I also correspond with a psychotherapist in Washington, D.C. and an executive in Chicago I met under similar circumstances. See you later! =B9 "Sleep Watchers" by William Dement, M.D., Published by Stanford Book Series, 1992
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Crop Circles: Hoaxes? 3/3 From: "William Sawyers" <wsawers@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:50:01 +1300 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:33:00 -0500 Subject: Crop Circles: Hoaxes? 3/3 [Part 3 of 3] The authors claim that "In this guide we will give you all the information you will need to work with these plants, and eventually, with a little practice, produce genuine, dowsable, scientifically proven un-hoaxable circle patterns". There are drawings of known formations (mainly the more complicated patterns) as well as ones which have yet to appear. This reviewer was pleased to read that the authors make it quite clear that circlemaking is a criminal activity and that (somewhat paradoxically) circlemakers should "not move through a field without using a tram-line"). The authors seem a little guilty about this aspect of their booklet as on page 9 they launch into a lengthy justification for their activities, something which some farmers may not find particularly amusing. In another paragraph it is suggested that circlemakers leave "nasty things" inside their creations, eg "hospital waste, dangerous radio-isotopes, blood" etc. With sentiments like this it seems that the crop circle mythology is far from dead and that this battle royale between the True Believers and the circle makers will continue unabated for years to come. PF.=20 A Letter from Shuttleworth In CW22 we featured the first response to a circular letter to Meaden's peer group - those scientists who were publicly associated with the 1990 Circles Effect Conferences held in Oxford. In our previous issue Dr Tokio Kikuchi of Kochi University, Japan, made clear that despite his concern at the extent of hoaxing he was still prepared to consider an atmospheric solution to some crop circles. Having circulated Dr Kikuchi's response Dr John Graham, the Director of Studies at Shuttleworth College, Cranfield University, also responded (letter dated 30th August 1994). This is what he has to say :-=20 "Dear Paul, Many thanks for your letter of 19 August. In response to your request perhaps I can make a few (personal) points :=20 (1) The majority of circles/formations are probably man-made. A few, simple, circles are very possibly not. However, until hoaxers stop hoaxing or we catch a real one "in the act" as it is being formed, we cannot be fully certain. I am wary of the Skeptics (as I am of many other groups) because, like so many, they are trying to get the facts to fit their theory.=20 (2) Terence Meaden is one of the few to be doing it properly, i.e. vice versa. Accordingly, as time goes by and we accumulate more evidence, so he will revise his hypothesis until it is thoroughly tested. Normal, proper scientific procedure. Hence we should expect what he is saying in 1996 for example to have moved on from what he was saying in 1993. =20 (3) I have read Tokio Kikuchi's letter in the Crop Watcher with interest. I too am uneasy about the word 'plasma'. Perhaps this is just because I have a biological background where plasma is found in blood, and I don't know so very much about physicists' plasma ! However, the key factor is that some sort of vortex is involved - from my own observations of crop damage, both in circles and in non-geometric configurations, I feel certain that this is the most likely culprit.=20 I hope these few remarks are of help to you. If you wish me to comment further on any specific points do please let me know. Best Wishes, Yours Sincerely, Dr John Graham."=20 The Crop Watcher has circulated copies of this letter and Dr Tokio Kikuchi's letter in CW22 to all six members of Terence Meaden's peer group as detailed in CW22 page 16 and we await further replies with interest. =20 Letters to the Editor Writing tosh=20 Dear Crop Watcher, Let no one - bar the odd author, perhaps - again accuse Andrew Collins of plagiary. He's just too good at making up the stories himself. 'Alien Energy' is the latest example.=20 For the record: On page 44 Andy talks of me being, 'suddenly stunned by a burst of light that emanated from a position directly beside (me)'. Actually it came from above, and I didn't feel particularly stunned - a little surprised maybe. On the same page he writes that my partner saw nothing. This is untrue; if he'd asked her, she would have told him that she witnessed the same thing I did. On the following page, Andy reports that I told him that I, along with three others, 'witnessed a ball of light at close quarters'. This is untrue, and the first I've heard of such a story. There was a report, relayed to him by a third party, concerning an event I'd supposedly witnessed. I promised to give him details, but he never got back to me. Instead, he simply made the story up.=20 On page 148 there is an account of a visit to the edge of the East Field, Alton Barnes, in which Andy, his partner Debbie, Pam Price & I, 'all clearly heard a peculiar noise emanate from a position just metres away from where we stood'. Andy goes on to describe the noise as, alternately, 'a fishing reel being cast .... over the crop ... appearing to curve around in an arc ... and heard one final time in the field on the opposite side of the deserted Pewsey Road'. 'No-one could offer any simple explanation for this unusual event', he says. Well, I could, and I remember doing so. I also remember full agreement from Pam & Andy at the time. It was clearly road noise from an approaching, then arriving, and then departing vehicle. I even remember waiting for another vehicle to pass so we could verify the effect. I do not recall, however, seeing any 'huge aerial flash' above Knapp Hill, apart from the usual head-light play. To anyone familiar with the area, this is quite usual.=20 In the reference section to Chapter 8 (pages 235-236) he takes issue with the conclusions Jim Schnabel & I reached in our 1992 'Rolling Their Own' piece for The Independent Magazine. Without going into depth, it is obvious that Andy has not recently re-read the article, did not appreciate the points raised, nor has he responded to the numerous offers made to him (at the proof-reading stage of his book) to listen to tapes which clearly illustrate that UBI possessed a greater, 'flair and enthusiasm' for crop circles than Andy describes. Neither has he recently=20 spoken to Jim or myself at any length on the subject. It shouldn't be necessary to mention that firm evidence would be a pre-requisite of acceptance by The Independent. In the real world, it's not quite so easy to get away with writing tosh. =20 A curious aside; researchers not suffering from a short-term memory disfunction will remember it was Andy who informed us that John Martineau had claimed authorship to Jim's 'Dharmic Wheel' formation of 1992, suggesting that it might have been, "automatically rolled". Does he still believe this ? I am confused. However, should Andy agree to a detailed debate on this topic - in any sensible forum - I would be more than happy to oblige. =20 On the subject of our infamous balloon 'experiments' in the Pewsey Vale in 1992 (ref Chapter 10 p237); Andy awards great significance to their dates - he even suggests, ridiculously, that they may have been as late as November that year. Again, he made no effort to check. If he had, he would have found the real facts entirely inconsistent to the ones he portrays.=20 There is much true mystery in the world, possibly encompassing Alton Barnes - it's formulation is unnecessary. That aside, I'm sure Andy's book is highly entertaining. Robert Irving. London.=20 PF notes:- Andy Collins will be responding to Irving's letter in our next issue, when a full review of "Alien Energy" will appear. I can confirm that in late September - two years after The Independent Magazine article appeared - I was contacted by Paul Randall, one of the members of the UBI, following Andy Collins' intervention. Randall alleged that the UBI had never made more than two circles and were not Kronig's mythical "A team". I readily agreed to attend an open meeting to discuss this claim but I have yet to hear from the UBI as to details of this meeting. In the meantime I have received a tape recording from Irving of various interviews and telephone conversations he held with members of UBI during 1991 and 1992. These tapes will form the basis of several articles which will appear in future issues.=20 Other Crop Circle News IRISH CROP CIRCLES The Irish UFO and Paranormal Research Association (IUFOPRA) have informed us that two grass circles appeared on a freshly mowed lawn at a house in the Mourne area of County Down, Northern Ireland, on June 25th. The circles appeared within 48 hours of cutting and changed shape over the following 72 hours. The smallest was 14 feet in diameter whilst the largest, which appeared to have a spur attached, was 16 feet in diameter. We await further news with interest. =20 CALENDAR CATASTROPHE Colin Andrews' colour poster of the "best" 1993 formations has caused one or two people to sit up and take notice ! Colin has promoted the two "Bohemian" formations made by the Wessex Skeptics (recently admitted to in Volume 8, No 1 of The Skeptic) as well as Erik Beckjord's wheelchair symbol !=20 FRENCH UGMs Robert Fischer of Saint Max, France, has sent me a copy of issue 36 of Lumieres dans la Nuit. This issue features photographs of three unexplained ground markings, at Col de Vence, (1985 and 1993), Saint-Geniez (Sept 1993) and at d'Aumont (Sept 1993). The first traces involved a sunken circle and a grass circle, both of which may be unusual fungal growths (??). The middle case looks like a classic crop circle. The last case is composed of three sets of dark rings on a light sandy soil. The rings almost touch eachother and allegedly nothing grows inside them. Joel Mesnard undertook an investigation and concluded that they were probably hoaxes as the rings were made up of what might be ground tree bark which was largely superficial to the soil. =20 APBO Hoaxers Evade Detection Readers will recall the appearance two years running of the "APBO" hoax near Cherry Burton on Humberside. It occurred to me that if these letters were not created by any of the known circlemakers (eg Jonathon Richardson, or the Cambridge-based Mandelbrot-makers) then perhaps these were the initials of the hoaxers responsible. Whilst doing an interview with BBC Radio Humberside on August 30th I learnt from the presenter Russell Merryman that this hoax appeared on land owned or leased by Bishop Burton agricultural college. On September 8th I wrote to the college enquiring whether or not this hoax did indeed appear on their land and whether or not their students (or perhaps, as with the Southwell hoax discussed in CW6 page 28, rival students from another college) were responsible. On October 19th Howard Petch, the college Principal, kindly responded with the following :-=20 "I have little information to assist your enquiries. However, there has been evidence of one small, poorly constructed and obviously man-made (with footprints etc) corn circle at Mill Hill in 1994. Quite a number of other incidents have occurred over the previous few years but we have no idea whether students (our or others) were responsible." =20 Strange but True? ditch Crop Circles Also, having assisted the "Strange But True?" team at London Weekend Television in their research into crop circles, I contacted David Alpin, the producer (who I met at the Fortean Times Unconvention in June). In a letter dated 25 October David states "I decided not to include crop circles in this series of STRANGE BUT TRUE? because we did not have an appropriate story. A great many subjects have been investigated and rejected in the making of our programmes, so that we could present viewers with the very best and most fascinating of mysteries to watch and decide on". A book, based on the series and written by Peter Hough and Jenny Randles, is currently on sale, price not yet known !=20 PLASMA VORTEX ?? Did anyone see the alleged photographs of the Virgin Mary in the Sunday Express magazine on November 13th ? "Its a Miracle" featured photographs of several locations said to have produced miraculous events. According to the text "The Virgin Mary supposedly appeared here [at Conyers, Atlanta, USA] in the sky, right, to a young woman in 1988. Since then, many other claims have perpetuated these sensational scenes of pilgrimage and evangelism. Preachers address the vast congregations by loudspeaker, and the crowds scan the sky with cameras, hoping to capture a divine image, below. A foundation called Our Loving Mother's Network has been set up here, partly to keep believers updated on the latest sightings". The attached photographs appear to show a huge glowing cloud formation with spiralling arms. Does this indicate rotation ? If so, is this some kind of plasma vortex phenomenon ? =20 r.p.v. ?? Also, did anyone see the article in New Scientist, 20 August 1994, describing advanced military technology ? The diagram included an "unmanned aerial vehicle" (a kind of remotely-piloted vehicle) which seems strikingly similar to the drawing of the "daylight dumbbell" case reported from Novato, California, on April 15th, 1989 (see IUR, Vol 14, No 5, pages 12-13).=20 Also ... Did anyone tape Pat Delgado's appearance on TV's "What's My Line" in November ? If so I would like a copy please !=20 One of our "deep throat" sources has informed us that he has submitted four sealed envelopes to ITN's "Schofield's Quest" which contains predictions of crop formations to appear in 1995. It is expected that Schofield - if he can find the time - will open these envelopes "live" on TV late next summer. =20 The Amersham group's hoaxed giant penis near Chequers (which featured in many national newspapers this summer) finally made it to BBC TV's "Have I Got News For You" on November 18th, when crop circle guru David Icke was one of the guests. Curiously Reg Pressley was promoted by presenter Angus Dayton as the leading member of the Circles Phenomenon Research Group. No doubt Colin Andrews will have something to say about this! =20 Paul Vigay and the Portsmouth News=20 Paul Vigay of Portsmouth is currently under threat of legal action from Circlevision following comments attributed to him by the Portsmouth News on July 30th. In a highly contentious interview Vigay alleged that he had recently attended a public lecture in London when he had a "run in with a pair of hoaxers, or 'circle debunkers'" who "showed a sequence of time lapse pictures that appeared to show a crop circle being hoaxed". According to the Portsmouth News "Paul stood up and said he could produce the same sort of pictures with computer manipulation in a few minutes". The article continues by alleging that these un-named "hoaxers" "backed down" once they had seen Paul Vigay's computer-produced images. =20 According to correspondence in my possession on January 12th 1994 Paul Vigay wrote to Circlevision to clarify similar claims he made at the December 4th BUFORA lecture. Vigay states that "under no circumstances have I, either at the BUFORA lecture or subsequently, accused you, your husband or his company of lying. Also, under no circumstances would I make any statement to damage your reputation or inhibit your business. However, it remains a matter of fact that photographic and video evidence is less effective in today's technological environment, with the latest developments in computer technology, both hardware and software allowing one to manipulate images in any way one desires. This does not imply or suggest that you or Circlevision have used such methods, but it should be pointed out to researchers that such techniques exist." Of course this is not what Vigay claimed at the BUFORA lecture, when he appeared to imply that Circlevision was presenting computer-enhanced images of circle-makers at work at night rather than real-world images. =20 With this letter Vigay supplied Circlevision with laser copies of a computer-generated image of the Barbury Castle formation as viewed from high above the formation. Apparently this image is not the same as that shown by Circlevision at the BUFORA lecture.=20 =20 In correspondence with me Paul Vigay maintains that the comments in the Portsmouth News article did not refer to Circlevision or the BUFORA lecture. However, he has refused to name the people discussed in the Portsmouth News article or the location of the lecture discussed. Readers may find it difficult to believe that the MacNishes are not the only video makers who recently presented a public lecture in London about crop circles. It seems even more unbelievable that whilst Vigay accepts that Circlevision did not fabricate their nocturnal photographs of circlemakers at work this other un-named company did !=20 Following these developments Circlevision have placed this disturbing matter in the hands of their solicitor and asked the Portsmouth News and Paul Vigay for an apology. In the meantime Vigay has accused Doug Bower of lying about the number of crop circles he and Dave Chorley made, and now your Editor has also been accused of being a liar (on the public area of the E-mail system) following the lawsuit threat bought against me in 1989 by Colin Andrews, Pat Delgado and Gordon Creighton ! All this material will form the basis of a full article which will appear in our next issue. =20 Rumours & Rumours of Rumours Colin Andrews has been collared by the CIA in Alresford High Street, a secret message was passed on ... perhaps it will appear in his third book "The Signs of Change" ... Reg Pressley is planning a new crop circle video ... A well known questing UFOlogist appeared in court on November 23rd in the East Midlands charged with obtaining services by deception.... Rupert and Ishtar are on good terms ... John Alexander's wife Victoria is trying to obtain a copy of The Informer as Erik Beckjord alleged to her that Jim Schnabel is the Editor ... Robert Irving's admiralty office is located near Bath ... George Vernon tried to appear on Schofield's quest, but Doug Bower and Reg Pressley had already beaten him to it ...Chad Deetken refused to accept a drink from Adrian Dexter ... =20 Book Reviews Time Travel, Fact, Fiction & Possibility Jenny Randles Blandford, 176 pages, 33 b&w photos, =A3 14.99 hb,=20 =A3 8.99 pb. Read and reviewed on Weymouth beach. Time travel is a subject that has always caught the imagination of the public - well at least since H.G. Wells' classic The Time Machine was published in 1895 - and now Jenny Randles has compiled a very thorough examination of the subject with this well illustrated, thought-provoking book. There is an excellent review of the fictional literature on the subject plus a close examination of cases where time travel has been claimed as a possible explanation for anomaly events. Some of the scientific experiments that have been conducted are a bit mind boggling but otherwise this is fair speculation backed up by good solid research. Buy it !=20 UFO Quest In Search of Mystery Machines Alan Watts Blandford, 192 pages, 12 b/w photos, 65 line drawings, price =A3 7.99=20 This really is the most thoroughly dishonest UFO book that I've seen for a long, long time. Touted as a "detailed and scientifically based survey" this must be the only book in UFO history which promotes Alex Birches' faked UFO photographs (page 92), David Langford's hoaxed "An Account of a Meeting with Denizens of Another World" (page 126), Dave Harris' faked account of how a UFO created a crop circle at Butleigh Wootten in 1991 (page 150) and which also promotes Billy Meier's highly dubious claims to have met visitors from the Pleiadies (his photographs of the spaceships were shown to be fakes years ago). Add to this the promotion of George Adamski's ridiculous claims of meeting with Venusians in the Californian desert and the promotion of Stephen Pratt's dubious UFO photographs and we get a book which this reviewer is quite sure that the Skeptics will use to discredit UFOlogy for many years to come !=20 In my opinion Alan Watts deserves some kind of UFOlogical award for having been stuck in a time warp for the past thirty years and for doing not one single piece of proper research before producing this wicked book. It is bad enough to see UFOlogists still promoting the likes of Billy Meier and George Adamski, but this book goes so much further that it makes me wonder whether there's any point at all in continuing with research into anomaly events, given the level of distortion and cover-up perpetrated in this book. To give an example of Alan Watts' "scientific" approach to UFO investigation, this is what he has to say about the famous Mandelbrot formation :- =20 "The chances of this being a hoax are absolutely nil and it is, in my opinion, a waste of time to dwell upon the matter " (page 142). =20 With bigoted, ill-informed sentiments like this it is not surprising to see that Jo-Anne Wilder's eye witness account of hoaxers making the Firs Farm formation (promoted on page 174) on 1 August 1991 is also missing. Like Pat Delgado Watts is also under the misapprehension that the Cheesefoot Head circles in 1981 were the first circles to appear. I suppose the continued perpetuation of this ridiculous error neatly does away with any need at all to discuss the Doug and Dave claim. Why bother challenging your assumptions when your belief that alien visitors are making the formations is elevated to the platform of an unquestionable faith.=20 Like many a True Believer it is revealing to see the way in which Watts misrepresents case after case to support his religion, eg for some inexplicable reason he omits to discuss the widely accepted Skyhook Balloon solution for Captain Thomas Mantell's tragic death in 1947 (page 125). In another example the Wildman car stop case (page 50) is promoted as an encounter with a spaceship rather than an encounter with a light. The Eric Payne case (page 103) is presented as an encounter with an invisible UFO without the slightest consideration that sensations of heat and air pressure are entirely consistent with a natural atmospheric interpretation. I could go on and on but what point is there ?=20 Now if you've been foolish enough to buy this disgraceful book I recommend that you demand your money back because you've been had ! BUFORA should hold its collective corporate head in shame at allowing a member of the Association to produce such a dishonest, fraudulent book to represent "scientific" UFOlogy. PF.=20 Advertisement Alien Encounters An Interpretive Approach to the UFO Phenomenon and Crop Circle=20 Mysteries by Gordon Millington=20 A former army officer and college lecturer, Gordon is an accredited investigator for the British UFO Research Association and a consultant for Flying Saucer Review. He has contributed to many publications concerned with the paranormal and has an eclectic concern with the possible meanings of such phenomena. A limited first edition of Alien Encounters is available now in hardback for only =A3 9.95 + =A3 1.50 p&p. Write to The Leonine Press, 8 Burnfield Drive, Rugeley, Staffs, WS15 2RH. =20 3rd Stone A magazine with an upfront, no nonsense approach to ancient sacred sites and symbolic landscapes with a nod and a wink to folklore, ufology and parascience. Latest issue =A3 2.50 from G.E.M., PO Box 258, Cheltenham, GL53 0HR. A GEM Publication. You'll never hear surf music again !=20 The NEW UFOlogist Issue 2 of The New UFOlogist is now out ! See your Editor make a complete burke of himself discussing the "GAO" Roswell Report in glossy print ! =20 Magazine Round-Up International UFO Reporter, November/December 1993 issue (Vol 19, No 3) contains a fascinating UFO case study from Alberta, Canada. >From the description offered by David Thacker it is difficult to tell what was really seen, and for once even a clever dick like me has to reserve his opinion ! The UFO resembled the triangles seen over Belgium, the Hudson Valley, New York, and, more recently, in northern England. Multiple independent witnesses reported seeing a dark triangular-shaped object with red circles at each apex. Christopher Allan takes the Roswell UFO crash to task, Randle and Schmitt of CUFOS respond. =20 The Journal of UFO Studies, New Series, Vol 5 (1994) contains two articles of interest to crop circle researchers. In "An Assessment of the Crop Circle Phenomenon" Joachim P. Kuettner of the U.S. National Center for Atmospheric Research dismisses a meteorological explanation for all but the simplest of crop circles, because (allegedly) all known vortices create inwardly flowing spiral traces rather than the divergent traces found in crop circles (so what about expanding ring vortices then ?). Amazingly Kuettner claims that nocturnal descending vortices have "not yet been observed in the atmospheric sciences". Despite this he is happy to leave the door open slightly for a previously unrecognised vortex, largely because of Arnt Eliassen's 1991 letter to Weather. Kuettner suggests that the plasma vortex is "scientifically improbable" whilst asserting that historical crop rings have a much closer association with UFOs than the modern-day crop circles. Jenny Randles and myself hope to submit a response to JUFOS challenging some of these statements. It is astonishing that Kuettner's article should contain an excellent photograph of a crop circle with slanting edges discovered near Dellroy, Ohio, on June 28, 1965. There is also a photograph of a smouldering circular patch of grass found near Killaly, Saskatchewan, discovered on November 14, 1979 after a white light had been seen the previous night (not the most persuasive UFO association I've ever read). In both photos there is evidence of a ring vortex effect - at Dellroy the crop radiates outwards in all directions whilst at Killaly the central zone is untouched. If these are hoaxes, how did the hoaxers know how to mimic ring vortex effects ! There is also an amusing review of the crop circle literature by UFO historian Michael Swords. Available from the same address as IUR, CUFOS, 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659.=20 Annals of the Enquiring, Vol 4 No 3 (July/Sept 1993) contains numerous Fortean events and some valuable case material. I was particularly impressed to learn that the March 31st 1993 sightings over Britain, Ireland and the continent had positively been identified by the a Dr T S Kelso of the USAF as a rocket fragment of COSMOS 2238. Other articles include UFOs and star maps, Weeping Madonas, BVMs, psychometry. Issue 19 contains photos of the two crop circles at Seaforde, Northern Ireland, which were found last August. This issue contains a statistical analysis of UFO waves, case studies of frogs falling from the sky (complete with whirlwind association) and news of the video of the Exmoor Beast. =A3 6 for 4 issues. Write to 8 St John Street, Wells, Somerset, BA5 1SW. =20 MUFON UFO Journal, Feb 1994 issue contains a statistical analysis of the content of abduction reports by Dan Wright. Psycho-social UFOlogists will take great comfort from the finding that 95 % of abductions occur in the witnesses' own home (often the bedroom), as this seems to support the theory that abductions are altered states of consciousness akin to lucid dreams rather than objectively real events. A second article examines an important radar visual case involving a reddish light that paced two aircraft in successive incidents over Paraguay. No, I can't make out what it was ! Glenn Campbell perceptively reviews Bob Lazaar's claim to have seen captured alien technology on a top secret US base. March issue continues with Dan Wright's statistical analysis of abduction cases. Wright's conclusion - that "numerous entity types have been visiting our planet with some regularity" - must be the most ridiculous statistical inference made throughout recorded history ! Kevin Randle and Donald Schmitt present a chapter by chapter precis of their latest update on the controversial Roswell case. Fred Whiting describes his part in the current US Government Accounting Office's investigation into the Roswell affair. The April issue again concentrates on the pro Roswell debate, with Kent Jeffrey appealing for UFOlogists world-wide to sign the "Roswell Declaration" (no, your Editor didn't). Write to 103 Oldtowne Road, Seguin, Texas 78155-4099.=20 Enigmas, the Journal of Strange Phenomena Investigations, issue 24 Vol 4 contains many fascinating in-depth research articles on subjects as diverse as poltergeists, man-beasts in Australia, alien abductions and another Nessie sighting. The highlight of this issue, for me, is an update on the Bonnybridge UFO wave, detailing Malcolm Robinson's concerted attempts to solve an intriguing UFO video case. Issue 37 Vol 5 Keith Basterfield summarises the state of abduction research in Australia, the UFO conference at Falkirk, hauntings and stigmata, UFO cases. 44 pages A5. =A3 10 for 5 issues per year. Write to 41 The Braes, Tullibody, Clackmannanshire, FK10 2TT, Scotland. =20 Phenomena, published by SOS OVNI, the leading French group. Available from SOS OVNI, Boite postale 324, 13611 Aix-en-Provence Cedex 1, France. A small English supplement is provided if, like me, you can't read French. Jan/Feb 1994 issue contains important revelations about the origin of the famous UMMO hoax and the controversy surrounding Jose Pena's confession. There is a summary of the proposal to set up a UFO reporting centre for the EEC. Details are supplied of a classic CE3 at Tronville-en-Barrois in the east of France. A family of five witnessed a luminous dome-shaped object, two bright lights, ground traces and even entities. A sixth independent witness to the scene claims to have seen a car with its headlights on and the driver walking around with a powerful torch. It transpired that the driver was on the run from the gendarmerie and had stopped at the precise spot where the alien craft was reported. The full case report will be published in a later issue of Phenomena but it is clear that this case illustrates how complex social processes within the family contributed to the group misperception involved. Issue 20 (March/April) contains a dubious ground trace case involving a bright light and a circular ground trace. There are also reprints of articles on the Williamette Pass photo (from IUR) and a mass outbreak of mystery helicopters, unidentified helicopters, UFOs and animal mutilations in the San Luis Valley, Colorado. Issue 22 contains a major article on the Face on Mars and a photographic case from Normandie. =20 The Ley Hunter, 121, =A3 1.75 per issue. This excellent issue contains many constructive articles examining earth mysteries, ley-alignments and sacred sites as well as links with natural light phenomena and other anomalous phenomena. This excellent issue contains two well researched articles on ghost routes and=20 corpse roads as well as an annotated map showing the location of 11 fairy mounds in County Sligo. Coincidentally the fairy mounds are all located within 6 kms of a steep escarpment. Is this because the ancients witnessed illuminated plasma vortices forming in the lee of these hills and rationalised them in terms of the prevailing fairylore motif ? Ray Cox has a letter pleading for clemency over the crop circle phenomenon. There is an important summary of Devereux's latest work with the International Consciousness Research Laboratories following his field trips to Hessdalen and Marfa (where Devereux and Ohtsuki agree that "at least 90 per cent" of the Marfa Lights were believed to be mirage-type refraction effects of car headlights). Devereux makes some important comments on his latest thinking about the postulated plasma vortex. At Hessdalen Devereux met four Russian scientists who described their laboratory-produced plasmas. A paper was presented on behalf of an absent Chinese delegate describing observed vortex behaviour in experimentally-produced plasmas and in photos of the Hessdalen lights. Devereux met with our own Prof. Ohtsuki and had some enlightening discussions with him. Devereux concludes "Out of all these conversations, ..., a number of subtle factors relating to light phenomena came more clearly in focus for me. One of these was the possibility of light phenomena leaving ground traces on suitable surfaces. I have held (albeit with increasing doubts) to such a possibility all through the crop circle hoo-ha, and had all but relinquished it. But enough data came together for me during the conference, ..., to convince me that there may well be something in the matter, and will be proceeding to explore it further." Available from PO Box 92, Penzance, Cornwall, TR18=20 2BX. Three issues per year for =A3 5.25. =20 Erik Beckjord Regular readers will already know of John Erik Beckjord, the intrepid Bigfoot hunter and "Director" of the "UFO, Bigfoot and Nessie Museum" of Marina del Rey, California. Beckjord first shot to crop circle fame with his ancient "TIFFINAG" interpretation of crop circles appearing in Wiltshire in 1991. Beckjord responded to what he believed were messages from alien beings by creating the "TALK TO US" message in a field near Avebury. According to MUFON UFO JOURNAL, issue 301, Beckjord claims to have received "8 responses" to this message. In the Washington Post (3rd July 1991) Beckjord has even tried to flog photographs of Senator Edward Kennedy's Face on Mars in an attempt to attract publicity. Some animated letters from Beckjord have appeared in MUFON UFO JOURNAL, numbers 279 and 281. =20 At 10:30 pm on August 19th Beckjord rang me from the Barge public house to allege that I am the Editor of The Informer and that I have libelled him by accusing him of fabricating his photographs of the Loch Ness Monster ! Beckjord claimed that he had exposed me at a public meeting attended by 50 people !! He subsequently repeated these false claims in writing where he states "Now what is this crap you write [in The Informer] ... Total nonsense and irrational. You write garbage, in an attempt to insult, yet avoid libel, at same time. You can't do this and be clear you dumb yob. Your writing is convoluted, turgid and idiotic. Not university level. State your insults clearly. Eschew obfuscation. P.S. Informer #7 Not up to level of #6 (Schnabel). J.S. edits better than you do. This issue was weak. Your Vigay & Macnish article is bullshit clouded in mindless drivel. Not clear as is C.W.". =20 So, if I read these allegations correctly, in between having a full time job, editing The Crop Watcher and co-editing The New UFOlogist, it seems that I am producing The Informer in my sleep !=20 In another scribbled messages Beckjord writes "Too bad you piss off so many people - you could otherwise socialise at The Barge and at conventions - but instead you must sit at the fringe - outside, outcast - pity." A third note states "Everyone now knows about you-know-what, and that you refuse to reveal where you got your B.A. degree (if at all) - pity." So, as you can see, Beckjord appears to be alleging that I have lied about having a university degree. If you want a copy of my degree certificate (Sheffield 1982) or my postgraduate diploma (Kent 1983) please let me know and I'll send you copies !=20 I have since discovered that Beckjord made a similar drunken phone call to Jayne Macnish at Circlevision on the same night as he made his threatening phone call to me. According to Jenny Randles Beckjord pestered her repeatedly in an attempt to obtain my telephone number, even though it is freely available in the telephone directory. =20 In a press release dated August 15th Erik Beckjord alleged that all the crop circle researchers are "major rat(s)" who are victims of an alien experiment to evaluate our psychology and social systems. Apparently we humans are "experimental animals" who are "destroying our cages" . With sentiments like these it is not surprising that Mr Beckjord currently has extensive legal problems. =20 The Crop Watcher has learnt that Associated Press have paid Peter Hough damages for breach of copyright following their widespread publication of the Ilkley Moor entity photograph, which was given to them by Erik Beckjord following one of last year's crop circle conferences. Presumably Associated Press will attempt to recover their damages from Beckjord when he returns to Britain this summer. In the meantime Beckjord is alleging that a team of lawyers are working flat out on his behalf, without pay, to deny that Hough owns the copyright to the Ilkley Moor entity photograph. =20 Finally I have learnt from one of my subscribers that when Beckjord rang me from the Barge he boasted that I had accused him of being a liar ! If anyone has a tape recording of Beckjord's allegations against me I would be very grateful for a copy. In the meantime I am still awaiting a written apology from Beckjord. NEXT ISSUE CW24 will be out by February 1st. Highlights will include the historical crop circle photographs discussed on page 2, a review of Alien Energy, a reply from Andy Collins to Robert Irving's letter in this issue, the result of my investigations into the astonishing event involving Colin Andrews and two army helicopters at Alton Barnes on July 21st, plus a possible literary reference to more historical crop circles. Oh yes, we will also be examining Levengood's article in Physiologia Plantarum 92 !=20 THE CROP WATCHER The Crop Watcher is an independent non-profit-making magazine devoted to the scientific study of crop circles and the social mythology that accompanies them. Articles appearing in The Crop Watcher are copyright to the named author and should not be reproduced with first obtaining written permission. Articles appearing in The Crop Watcher do not necessarily reflect the views of the Editor or other contributors. Readers are welcome to submit articles for publication. Offers of exchange magazines are always welcome.=20 SUBSCRIPTIONS The Crop Watcher is published four times a year. Each issue costs =A3 1.50 (UK subscribers) or =A3 2.50 (overseas subscribers). A full year's subscription costs =A3 6 (UK subscribers) or =A3 10 (overseas subscribers). Please make cheques payable to "Paul Fuller", NOT "The Crop Watcher". Overseas subscribers should send cash in pounds sterling. All correspondence should be sent to Paul Fuller, 3 Selborne Court, Tavistock Close, ROMSEY, Hampshire, SO51 7TY. Articles appearing in The Crop Watcher are copyright to the named author and should not be reproduced without first obtaining written permission. =20 RECOMMENDED PUBLICATIONS "Crop Circles, A Mystery Solved" by Jenny Randles and Paul Fuller, Robert Hale Ltd (2nd edition), ISBN 0-7090-5267-7, price =A3 6.99.=20 --=20 Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada =0C
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Crop Circles: Hoaxes? 2/3 From: "William Sawyers" <wsawers@ihug.co.nz> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:50:01 +1300 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:31:00 -0500 Subject: Crop Circles: Hoaxes? 2/3 The real question is this - who deserves to be prosecuted more keenly - the circlemakers or the cereologists ? The Crop Watcher will continue to report on the Great Crop Circle Hoax as it runs and runs ...=20 UFO Hoaxers Confess in Pub As regular readers already know, the believer groups in "cereology" hold many dark secrets. Sometimes your Editor is lucky enough to be let in on these secrets. Sometimes these secrets come out more by luck than by chance. This story is an example of the latter.=20 In March 1994 Terence Meaden received a 3 page letter from someone who has requested anonymity (name and address on file). The revelations in this letter again knocks big holes in the case that has been made by Colin Andrews, George Wingfield and others that crop circles and associated UFO reports are caused by an alien intelligence. many sensible people have long suspected that some technically minded official Skeptics may have been responsible for some of the UFO footage that has been shot in Wiltshire. Now "CM" from Wiltshire has handed us evidence which seems to support that contention. This is what she has to say :=20 "Dr Dr Meaden, Just before Christmas [1993], some friends and I were having a bite to eat in The Bear at Devizes and somehow we got on to the subject of corn circles. There was a bit of an argument going on and we were getting a bit heated !=20 There was a group of men near us and two came over. They said they had seen most of the crop circles and that they provided the lights [UFO sightings]. For a moment we were flummoxed, but they showed us photos of them in the corn circles with a remote controlled model plane disguised as a disc [spaceship]. It certainly looked convincing. They said they used torches at night, but had used the plane in daylight and at least two videos had been made by people thinking the disc was a genuine part of the circle mystery. They knew some of the circle makers. They thought they were talking to old ladies who would think no more of it, but what they didn't know was that I was deeply involved with research into the Warminster research of UFOs in the 1970s.=20 I happen to think hoaxers mar any research and are a bloody nuisance at the least !=20 So I enclose information of the hoaxers at Warminster [a second letter], I certainly learnt a lot about trickery on that theme. I don't know if it will be of any use to you. I expect the torches of today are a bit different to [those of] the seventies. Yours etc"=20 Well ! Unless this is MBF Services-style dis-information it seems that we have a potential answer to several celebrated UFO films. Readers will recall - for example - that in the Alexander film there was a stiff breeze blowing across Alexander's vantage point. Could this breeze have masked the sound of a small remotely-piloted model aircraft disguised as a tiny disk-shaped UFO ? =20 Circlevision have informed The Crop Watcher that in their opinion the Steven Alexander film shows nothing more than a small bird. This somewhat surprising opinion has apparently been supported by the Ministry of Defence and the Natural History Museum, who have both viewed the film. =20 Further evidence to support "CM" 's claim appeared in the Hertfordshire Advertiser last April when one Colin Rogers also claimed to have made a small disk-shaped flying saucer which was electrically powered. According to the article Rogers claims that his device was developed by a private company and was photographed by chance witnesses on June 25th 1977 at nearby Wheathampstead. Four photographs of the object were taken and these are reproduced in "UFOs, A British Viewpoint" by Jenny Randles and Peter Warrington. =20 Now could it be that this is the same disk-shaped flying saucer as the one in the photographs which were presented by the men in "The Bear" at Devizes? If either of these stories are true then many celebrated UFO incidents in Britain involving disk-shaped "craft" may, potentially, be explicable. Unfortunately our attempts to contact Mr Rogers for a demonstration of his device have failed, but following further correspondence "CM" has described the claimed hoaxers with the following :-=20 "The lighting [in the pub] was not very good but one/ of them was local by his accent. They spoke of others who helped them with the hoaxes. I also gathered that there were people local to Alton Barnes who were 'in the plot'. I would be suspicious of the ones who were making money out of it. The pilot who would 'be in' with everyone was doing very well out of it. There's [also] some connection with the 'Waggon and Horses'. They said it was easy to make a circle while the field was being watched, by putting the 'tools' in the place selected in daylight and creeping in at night. I suspect the hoaxers probably have at least one accomplice among the watchers...." (letter dated August 23 1994). So, who can these hoaxers be ? Who is 'the pilot' (Busty Taylor ?) ? And who in the Alton Barnes area is making money out of the hoaxes ? If anyone else knows anything at all about this group of hoaxers or Mr Colin Rogers we will be happy to publish further information. Our thanks go to "CM" for sending us this invaluable information. =20 Confession Time As promised in a previous issue your Editor hereby offers himself for public flogging for all his Crimes Against Cereology. For too long I have highlighted the crimes of others, their lies, the deceptions and the belief-centred nonsense. Well, now its my turn. Here it goes !=20 Looking back over my eight years of involvement with the crop circle phenomenon I have to admit that I have very mixed feelings about my achievements and failures. I don't think I can hide my disappointment that so many crop circles turned out to be man-made. Of course it would have been so so easy for me to adopt that favourite position of the armchair Skeptics by saying "I don't like the look of these circles, therefore they must all be hoaxes", but don't believe what you may have read elsewhere, that is not how science is conducted. =20 When I first became involved in circles research in late 1985 I quickly learnt from Jenny Randles that some circles were definitely man-made. This fact always underlined my attitude towards the subject and I took great care to ensure that I left plenty of evidence to demonstrate this fact. I always knew that some circles were hoaxes and I always considered it possible that a great many circles might turn out to be hoaxes. Despite this it is instructive to see that some observers (eg Robin Allen in The Skeptic, and Jim Schnabel in Round in Circles) have totally rewritten crop circle history to omit this fact, for reasons best known to themselves. It was blindingly obvious to anyone with the slightest grain of intelligence that peculiar circular markings in fields could easily turn out to be man-made. I said as much in my outrageous 1985 letter to the Editor at TVS News in Southampton, when I dismissed all the Cheesefoot Head circles as night-time hoaxes perpetrated by low flying helicopter pilots !!=20 Despite my initial pro-hoax views I quickly became open to alternative explanations when I was introduced to eye witness testimony, historical crop circle cases and Ian Mrzyglod's work. As so many of the early crop circles were relatively simple, and as there were some precedents for what was happening, I soon accepted that many circles might turn out to be meteorological in origin. It was certainly my scientific duty to see just how far this hypothesis could account for the evidence, and I am proud of the fact that Jenny Randles and myself are the two primary researchers who examined this theory and promoted it in the public arena. Despite claims made by some observers, we always disagreed with Meaden over the extent of hoaxing whilst giving Meaden the benefit of the doubt. In the absence of strong pro hoax evidence prior to circa 1990 I think we did the right thing.=20 In those early years I produced several published articles promoting both hoaxing and meteorological explanations. As speculation goes these articles were reasonable attempts at trying to understand some complex issues. However, on reading these articles now, seven years later, it is blindingly clear that my biggest error in the 1986-89 period was my failure to exhaustively test possible circle-making methods and to test these methods on the established researchers (a la Wessex Skeptics). By failing to do this I allowed myself to be swayed by Meaden's atmospheric vortex theory to the point where I accepted that many of the relatively simple formations I was seeing were "genuine". Of course, evidence remains which suggests that Meaden's theory is still valid for some cases, but it is still disappointing to realise that I was as guilty of promoting key falsehoods as everyone else. Of course, its easy with hindsight, but I do have some excuses. =20 To begin with, I was the only active circle researcher living in the Hampshire / Wiltshire area who was open to the idea that perhaps many circles were hoaxes. To make experimental circles would have been a difficult and risky business given the mystery mongering of other well known pundits. The last thing Jenny and I wanted to do was to help fan the flames of a silly season story, something the New Scientist had already accused BUFORA of doing in 1984. Of course, nothing could have been further from the truth. BUFORA was the only serious research organisation that had even bothered to investigate the phenomenon, and we had already spoken out publicly about both hoaxing and meteorology (something the official Skeptics have now totally written out of crop circle history in their attempts to debunk all crop circle researchers and all crop circle evidence). As I was soon to discover, once that term UFO is associated with an anomaly a very peculiar social reaction occurs whereby anyone associated with that anomaly is deemed by the Skeptics to be in league with the Devil ! If you don't believe this try reading Robin Allen's vicious and inaccurate article in The Skeptic !=20 During the mid 1980s Jenny Randles and myself demonstrated our concern that many circles might be hoaxes by proposing several methods of making crop circles. It was in response to our discussion of these possible methods (in "Mystery of the Circles", BUFORA 1986) that the BBC twice hired heli-copters and would-be circle makers to see what could be created under test conditions. Again we have never received the slightest degree of credit from the Skeptics for our suggestion that researchers should attempt to replicate "genuine" characteristics - something we were simply not resourced to do ourselves. =20 Looking back on those crucial early years I believe now that we were both severely misled by the poor quality of the 1983 Westbury hoax, where hoaxers left damaged crop despite making their circles in broad daylight. This event substantially reduced our expectations of what hoaxers could do at night, particularly given the extensive experimentation into methods of making crop circles which Pat Delgado discussed at the "Open Meeting" held in Alresford. The failings of this evidence mislead us all for years. Despite this, we discussed hoaxing in virtually all our written work and in almost all our media interviews. It is sad to see that our concern with hoaxing at this early stage in the development of the mythology has subsequently been totally written out of the history of the subject. =20 Looking back I can see all too clearly what went wrong. One of the characteristics of anomaly research is that the moment an anomaly is labelled and identified an incredibly emotive debate is generated where both proponents and Skeptics adopt extreme polarised positions. I saw this happening from a very early stage and was quite powerless to stop it. On the one hand we had the Flying Saucer Review team insisting that crop circles could not be hoaxes and just had to be the result of an alien controlled force, whilst on the other hand the official Skeptics were insisting that crop circles were not the result of an alien intelligence and just had to be hoaxes ! There was no middle ground, no reasoned argument about the facts, no understanding that in science several anomalies can often be lumped together under one explanatory heading. =20 During this very early stage I was thrown into a vipers nest, forced to decide whether the public debate over the cause of the circles was more important than the actual investigation of the circles. Deciding which of these two options to take was probably the most difficult choice Jenny Randles and I faced, but ultimately I suppose we tried to do both, with the inevitable result that we failed to fulfil both aims. We allowed the crop circle mythology to develop into a world-wide hoax whilst at the same time we failed to fully test all hoaxing methods. Of course its one thing to discuss numerous possible circle making methods in print but quite another to actually try those methods in the classic scientific manner. =20 By failing to construct circles I was not only guilty of misunderstanding what experienced hoaxers could create at night but I was also guilty of promoting the myth that "bent but not broken" was synonymous with the "genuine" phenomenon, something which has now been proven to be untrue on numerous well-documented occasions. I regard these two errors as my primary mistakes. However, the fact that I was all on my own, both physically and philosophically, meant that the opportunity to test these methods and assumptions about what hoaxers could and could not do was always restricted, particularly given my lack of time and resources. =20 Being asthmatic I imagine that I might be capable of making say a 10 foot diameter circle on my own, but even this would have left me totally exhausted and feeling pretty awful for some time afterwards. Making several circles to "test" the leading researchers would have been a physically challenging task. Of course, there were no official Skeptics or Magonians around to assist me or to suggest further avenues for research - they were too busy sitting at home watching TV !=20 In the early years I did visit crop circles, but as many appeared in the Cheesefoot Head punchbowl and as this area was allegedly out-of-bounds to researchers, I never went inside the Cheesefoot punchbowl circles - I merely trusted the abilities of my fellow researchers (something our oh-so-clever Skeptics have never realised !). Had I actually visited these early circles I would have discovered Matthew Lawrence's observation that many of these "pristine" circles exhibited damaged crop, muddy footprints and suspicious underlying tracks (something other researchers cleverly managed to miss or cover-up). I did notice a lot of damage in the 1987 South Wonston circle but I wrongly concluded that because it was so close to the road and housing that it had been damaged by subsequent visitors. Would be researchers note - you can't do your research from a car parked at the edge of the field and you can't assume that the evidence you examine is uncontaminated - it normally is !=20 Looking back on this period I realise now that as Andrews and Delgado became increasingly outspoken about the circles they were finding, I drew back realising (with utter horror) what they were going to do. My caution and concern about their activities actually led to me distance myself from the research and investigation that I should have been doing. This is not to say that I didn't visit circles at all - I certainly did - but the fear that I would find myself in the middle of a field with two people I deeply mistrusted had a strong negative effect on what I should have been doing. =20 During these early years, as Doug and Dave began making circles across a progressively wider area, I was severely restricted in terms of time and money. It wasn't until late 1985 that I had my first car and I well recall trampling up from the Percy Hobbs bus stop in July 1985 searching for my first circles (a quintuplet on Gander Down). It was a frustrating experience. However, even when I joined forces with Terence Meaden in 1986, it wasn't long before the Wiltshire hoaxers began hoaxing and many of their circles were a good hour or two away from my home. Unlike many other circle researchers, I was unwilling to allow my spare time hobby to interfere with my career with frequent nocturnal trips and circle-watching activities. I think this attitude was perfectly reasonable as there were others who were doing the basic investigation and I had high hopes that the phenomenon would soon be satisfactorily explained to the public at large.=20 Little did I know how those pretty little circles I was visiting would turn into a Great Filthy Hoax which would spread out around the world bringing wealth to a few but disaster to others. =20 Looking back on it all now I wonder what would have happened had I done the correct thing - given up my job and camped out with a pair of infra-red binoculars in the copse half way down Cheesefoot Head. What would have happened had I seen Doug and Dave coming down the hillside to make a formation ? Would I have been brave enough to tackle two complete strangers in the middle of the night a mile from the nearest habitation ? Would I have been able to persuade these two men to stop their circle-making on the basis that they were helping others to discredit "serious" UFO research (no, don't laugh) ? Who would have believed me if I had obtained this "proof" that their precious circles were actually man-made ? Would Andrews and Delgado have stopped their reckless promotion of the subject if I had proven to them that one of their "genuine" circles was really man made ? Would other hoaxers have stopped what they were doing ? Somehow I doubt it, and we can just imagine the official Skeptics recompensing me for the loss to my career such actions would have entailed.=20 Those early years were deeply frustrating. I remember having an almost permanent headache in the summer of 1987 as I saw what was happening. How could I stop what Andrews and Delgado were doing ? I was desperate to convince them to think again about their extraordinary interpretation of the evidence, but they simply ignored the evidence I sent to them and in the end they forced me into a position where I was left with no choice but to publicly slate them for what they were saying and doing, something I had hoped to avoid with my letters to them. =20 It shocked me to see the way Andrews and Delgado were promoting an extraterrestrial solution to the evidence without the slightest regard for more mundane explanations or the credibility of UFOlogy. I tried on several occasions to convince them to think again, but in the end this just made for more trouble in a very big way. It was during this period that I would have valued some help from the more rational elements of the UFO community - perhaps from those clever know-alls at Magonia or even the official Skeptics - but instead I was left to do everything myself. Of course in real life the cavalry never come just in the nick of time, yet now these very same people are the ones who are criticising and jeering ! What cowards they were !=20 So, now it is all over. I witnessed the birth of a social myth, a new religion, another extension to the overpowering UFO mythology. It was as if I had been there in the late 1940s when Ray Palmer and his associates invented the UFO myth with their fraudulent promotion of Schirmer's fictional story about aliens kidnapping humans into their underground bases. I saw the way in which the public were lied to, repeatedly, and how the British media, with its exceptional arrogance and stupidity, gave a handful of extra-terrestrialists everything they needed to promote themselves as world famous researchers. I can never forgive these people for what they did. They put UFO research back by fifty years with their actions. =20 Looking back on it all I don't think there is much more I could have done. Having made my two main errors I don't think I had the resources to work out what was really happening. I don't think I could have stopped the world-wide hoaxing that has developed. I don't feel that UFOlogy deserves much credit for the way in which believer groups like FSR and Quest International leapt to support Andrews and Delgado in what they were saying. These people were all UFO Traitors who cared for nothing except their own bloated egos and their money-making activities. History will recall them as such. I know because I was there.=20 Successes ? So, what about my successes ? Well I suppose Jenny Randles and myself were in there investigating crop circles, analysing the evidence and publishing our research before the Skeptics had even got out of bed ! We were always alert to the idea that many circles might be hoaxes and we were always prepared to accept a dual solution of hoaxing and meteorology. In this respect we differed from almost all the other crop circle researchers who had already nailed their loyalties to single masts. Of course science often requires dual theories and we were right to adopt such an approach. I suppose we had five main achievements :-=20 (1) We challenged the popular myth that crop circles were the result of a spaceships' landing marks. We countered FSR's falsehoods in the public domain in the belief that the public were being led down the garden path (something the official Skeptics kept well clear of). Our aim was to give the public the facts that others chose not to. In doing this perhaps we opened some eyes in the scientific community that not all UFO researchers are maniacs, that UFOs are neither spaceships or nonsense, that in some cases obscure but objectively real phenomena may lie behind those reports. =20 (2) We suggested experiments to test hoaxing methods and we published evidence about hoaxing (eg in "Mystery of the Circles", BUFORA 1986). We were the only researchers who even considered that hoaxing might account for crop circles - a stance which soon bought us ridicule and despicable tactics from some of the other self proclaimed researchers who had attached themselves to the subject. =20 (3) We tried to rescue some credit for UFOlogy, as we very quickly saw the potential for the crop circles to totally discredit the serious side of UFO research (as well as the historical evidence, which we always felt was possibly more representative of the true phenomenon than the more outrageous hoaxes which others were eagerly promoting). This was one of the reasons behind our aggressive public stance against those who accepted without question that crop circles were caused by spaceships. In my opinion our best media achievements were =20 - the 9 July 1989 article in The Times, which challenged the FSR team for its unprofessional dismissal of eye witness testimony and the extent of hoaxing (another crucially important media quote which the Skeptics totally ignore with their rewritten crop circle history); =20 - the item on the ITV network news in 1989 when ITN science Editor Lawrence McGinty promoted Meaden's meteorological theory and hoaxing as the solution (ditto) - I remember dancing around my flat with joy after that one !; =20 - our part in the 1986 and 1989 BUFORA debates, which were an attempt to stimulate a proper scientific debate which (tellingly) the Flying Saucer Review team and the official Skeptics never reciprocated, but which bought us credit from scientists like Dr Paul Mason at the Met. Office in Bracknell, - and=20 - my first solo "live" TV interview, where I discussed eye witness testimony and hoaxing before Doug and Dave came forward (TVS News, 19th July 1990).=20 (4) We also did things that no other crop circle researchers did, eg we conducted surveys, examined historical cases and we published all the pro-hoax evidence (years before Doug and Dave came forward). In effect we evaluated ALL the data, proposed quantifiable hypotheses and continually emphasised our belief that there was a rational explanation for the phenomenon. We took a particular interest in the sociology of what was taking place. In short we witnessed the birth of a new supernatural mythology - a subject of study in its own right. Despite Robin Allen's ludicrous comments in The Skeptic we spent many hundreds of unpaid hours of our spare time circulating crop circle evidence to researchers all over the world. Science would have expected nothing less of us. =20 (5) We took Meaden's controversial meteorological theory and used it to try and explain numerous high strangeness UFO reports. This approach is something that proper scientists should still be doing, although the Skeptics have treated this work with utter contempt whilst failing to explain why these explanations are (apparently) so wrong. In my view this is work that deserves to be continued, regardless of the jeers of the Skeptics, whose failure to properly falsify scientific evidence is legion.=20 Note that none of these things were ever done by the official Skeptics, who avoided the crop circle debate for ten long years. Presumably the Skeptics' failure to contribute to circles research was largely due to a fear that they might be wrong ! Yet now opinionated know-alls like Robin Allen are actually trying to claim the credit for having exposed mass crop circle hoaxing !=20 To summarise I think any future historian of the subject who works through my 30 box files of crop circle material, my media interviews and my published work is going to have a tough old time trying to evaluate my "contribution" to the subject. I think the real problem is that I could never really made up my mind whether what I was seeing was hoaxed or genuine. I never had the time and money to do everything I wanted. I know I got a lot of things quite wrong, but I also got some things right. To be dismissed by Robin Allen as just another True Believer in the mysterious circles is perhaps the final insult in the long and troubled history of our subject.=20 Video Review Cropcircle Communique II 'Revelations' Circlevision, 60 minutes, Available from P.O. Box 36, Ludlow, Shropshire, SY8 3ZZ Price =A3 15 incl p&p (UK), =A3 20 or $ 35 elsewhere (NTSC/PAL please specify). Please allow 28 days for delivery. This reviewer predicts that few who watch John MacNish's superb new video (subtitled as "The answer to the mystery of the cropcircles") will realise that there is still evidence of a non hoaxed phenomenon that predates Doug and Dave. Despite this one cannot praise highly enough the quality of this video and its treatment of the negative evidence. Communique II is a detailed and highly absorbing investigation into crop circle hoaxing and the claims of Doug Bower and Dave Chorley. MacNish presents ample evidence to support his acceptance of their claim with many new revelations about hoaxing and the gullibility of the crop circle "experts". One of the great strengths of this video are the nocturnal sequences showing Doug Bower and Dave Chorley making huge pictograms which continued to fool the "so-called experts". If you want to see Colin Andrews, Richard Andrews and Pat Delgado making complete fools of themselves this is definitely the video you need to buy !=20 Revelations begins by asking who the circlemakers are and what are they trying to say. Andrews and Delgado are then introduced as two researchers who interpreted the circles as the result of a phenomenon which lies "outside science". Colin Andrews is shown arrogantly claiming that it is "impossible" to hoax the swirl pattern or the dowsing energy, the two characteristic which he and others associated with "genuine" crop circles.=20 I was a bit surprised to see the Operation Blackbird hoax without being told that Andrews and Delgado had even promoted this shoddy-looking pattern, but this is probably because (unlike Meaden or Wingfield, who never appear on film) Revelations takes a special interest in the claims and beliefs of Andrews and Delgado and there are many other occasions during this video when their credulous belief systems are shown to be in error.=20 In the early part of Revelations the treatment of the Sevenoaks pictogram and the West Wycombe hoax competition are important subjects that are well treated. Pat Delgado is shown in a rather shocked and confused state of mind trying to justify his failure to identify Doug and Daves' demonstration circle at Sevenoaks.=20 This is what he has to say :-=20 "I classed it as I would lean towards saying it was genuine and I feel that its ... its on the cards that it IS genuine, but that doesn't mean to say that every other one is a hoax - I'm only talking about that one [the Sevenoaks pictogram]. I consider that all the others are genuine that we've said are genuine".=20 Commenting on Doug and Daves' Chilgrove demonstration Jurgen Kronig observes that :=20 "The circle doesn't look too bad, I mean I've seen better circles - the corn [is laid] flat, the stems flowing around the stones, the bigger stones lying in the field, which wouldn't be used by this method they've used here, but nevertheless you have to admit that they know what they do and [that] they are able to do something amazing [like the] pictograms, for instance."=20 Next viewers are treated to some close-up views of the West Wycombe competition and some of the animated exchanges between the Believers and the Hoaxers. This sequence is blessed by John Michell's outrageous claim that the crop circles are still a complete mystery. This is marginally bettered by Richard Andrews' admission when asked how easy it would have been to tell that the competition circles were hoaxes had he not been told. Andrews replied :=20 "We would have had to be careful, very careful I think. The thing that was missing from them all was that lovely flow that you get which makes it look as though its gone down like water - that's the only thing really that was missing. If that had been there with the winner I think we'd have been hard put really, and if it had dowsed it would have been worse."=20 Again Jurgen Kronig's judgement was that the hoaxers had not managed to reproduce the "genuine" characteristics he had been seeing in crop circles. Kronig declared that "nothing was bent, everything was broken" whilst also noting the lack of flow. =20 As the narrator points out, the astonishing thing about the West Wycombe competition was that the winning teams were such inexperienced hoaxers, yet their pictograms attracted considerable praise from Dr Rupert Sheldrake, who had helped to organise the competition. Sheldrake himself makes a long and carefully measured statement about the value of the competition and the unexpectedly high quality of the competitors' circles. He concludes that :=20 "We know for example that forgers can produce =A3 20 notes that look very like the real thing, but that doesn't prove that all =A3 20 notes are forgeries".=20 This same argument was used, if you recall, by ITN's Science Editor, Lawrence McGinty, on the day TODAY newspaper first revealed Doug and Daves' astonishing story to the world. =20 The very best aerial sequences in Revelations come later. The viewer is introduced to Doug and Dave's unusual nocturnal activities and their total scorn towards those people who promoted their circles as genuine. Thanks to the sophisticated technology used by Circlevision viewers see Doug and Dave making huge complicated circles at night through MacNish's image intensifier. Then viewers are treated to spectacular aerial views of their creations in broad daylight the following day. The accompanying music throughout Revelations deserves a special mention. =20 Throughout 1993 Doug and Dave led Circlevision a merry dance through the fields and by-ways of Southern England. In one of the most impressive sequences Doug Bower's water colour drawings of formations are shown juxtaposed on top of the real thing. This sequence proves beyond doubt that Doug and Dave made many huge pictograms in 1992 which continued to be promoted as genuine by the True Believers. My one real regret is that we never see Doug and Dave pole-vaulting through the crop at night - now that would be something more impressive than any genuine circle !=20 Perhaps the highlight of Revelations is the full story of the East Meon hoax. Richard Andrews is shown accepting Doug and Daves' hoax as a genuine formation that displays the same floor patterns he has seen during the previous three summers. Andrews demands the replication of these allegedly genuine features by hoaxers, clearly unaware that Doug and Dave had made the formation and been captured on film. Disastrously Andrews accepts that if the features he has just seen CAN be shown to be man-made then "it is reasonable [to conclude] that all [crop circles] are man-made". =20 Ramming home this victory Macnish then presents Colin Andrews insisting that it is "impossible" to manufacture swirl patterns and "interwoven layers". Throughout the remainder of this video Doug and Dave repeatedly show exactly how such swirls can be produced with their stomping method. They also demonstrate how accurately they can produce an almost dead straight spur over 50 feet in length using the famous ringed cap method. This is where Revelations lives up to its title. Every time an "expert" makes a claim Doug and Dave turn up and knock them down !=20 One of the major topics addressed by Macnish in Revelations is the motivation behind the hoaxing, a subject which clearly fascinates him. Jim Schnabel admits on film that his hoaxing started as an experiment but grew into something more personal and artistic as the believers worshipped the circles he made. Schnabel took particular thrill at seeing the effect of his circles on the wide eyed crop circle believers he was interviewing by day but hoaxing by night. Robert Irving and Pam Price are also interviewed as all three send up lighted balloons in an attempt to trigger UFO sightings at Woodborough Hill (the scene of a major close encounter with a structured spaceship, if you recall - see CW22). Pam Price ("Spiderwoman") explains how the need to believe in a fantastic solution totally overwhelms observers. Of course this is proof of the power of the exotic alien mythology generated by Doug and Dave and their many copiers.=20 One more contentious sequence concerns Doug Bower's own photographs of all the early circles he and Dave Chorley made. The statistics presented are used to demonstrate that these two men could have easily provided "the foundation for the whole crop circle mystery". Again no mention is made of the documented historical cases or the eye witness accounts that have been published in the literature. Neither are these cases included in the statistics. =20 Doug Bower insists that there were no sharp-edged swirled circles predating "1978", although he accepts that some storm damage looks remarkably like crop circles (a somewhat flawed argument).=20 This is where a token gesture could have been made towards contrary evidence, by including an eye witness or one of the better historical cases. As Jim Schnabel is shown admitting his belief in an extremely rare but genuine phenomenon despite his hoaxing activities this is perhaps the one criticism that can be levelled at Revelations. However, as a record of the key events of the past few years and of how easy it is to make circles and fool the "experts" there really isn't anything on the market better than this superb video. Now go out and buy it ! =20 Book Review A Beginners Guide To Crop Circle Making With assistance from Fe3 As an example of just how farcical the crop circle subject has become, this small illustrated booklet has been produced and circulated by a group of leading circlemakers. It seems from my reading that the intention of this booklet is to assist amateur circlemakers and generally poke fun at the True Believers who infest cereology. Whether the farmers who object to circle making will quite see it in this way is perhaps another matter. =20 The Beginners Guide was officially launched at "The Fete Worse Than Death", an annual art fair held in London on July 30th. More than 40 copies were sold. That same evening it was circulated at a meeting of many of Britain's major circle makers which took place at the "Who'd a Thought it" public house in Lockeridge (near Avebury and Alton Barnes for overseas readers). Readers will be amused to learn that Doug Bower and his wife Ilene were the Guests of Honour at this unique social gathering. Alert readers of The Cerealogist will recall that the original meeting place was advertised in issue 12 as the tack room at The Waggon and Horses at Beckhampton, but your Editor has been reliably informed that this had to be changed at the last minute due to growing aggravation between rival groups of circlemakers. =20 According to the front cover, the Beginners Guide was compiled "with assistance from Fe3" (hint, hint). It contains advice on topics as varied as the equipment required, ensuring that you are not followed on leaving the pub (aptly titled "The Drop Off") and on how to create impressive flow and multiple layering effects that will convince gullible cereologists of the authenticity of the circle. The authors assert that their formations will be accepted as genuine by cereologists as long as "(a) you are not caught making it, and (b) the pattern represents a shape which leading cereologists regard as of symbolic importance, and, therefore, useful on the proselyting lecture circuit - e.g. mandalas, Atlantean script, etc."=20 The Beginners Guide contains only 12 pages of text and illustrations but this is more than made up for by the good humour of its authors. I was particularly amused to read that during preparation would-be circle makers should "Dowse potential location to establish earth energies. If a formation is located on a powerful ley-line this will satisfy later tests for genuineness, and aid in curative effects, healings, orgone accumulation, angelic visions, benign alien abduction experiences, and feelings of general well-being." This seems to be based (in part) on the furore which developed after the promotion of Doug and Daves' East Meon demonstration pictogram (read George Wingfield's account of this cereological contretemps in "Alien Liaison"). =20 The authors go on to state that "If the formation is situated contra-directionally to the flow of energy, this may result in the opposite effects; headaches, nausea, temporary limb-paralysis, aching joints, mental illness, deadly orgone radiation (DOR) exposure, demonic visions, negative abduction scenarios (memory loss, implant scarring, sore or bleeding anii [presumably the plural term for anus, PF], navels, and genitals, etc), and general disillusionment." Subsequent hints about satanism only gives away who lies behind this audacious work.=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:15:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:22:15 -0500 Subject: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg Hi Bob. You haven't answered my questions, therefor I'm posting them again along with comments: >>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:16:28 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >>Subject: Re:V. Spielberg / Bob Shell > > >>Hi again Bob. >>What do you mean by: > >>"I've got another three years on this project, and am not going to screw >>things up by trying to speed up the processes. All will come in due >time." > >>Please explain! > > >It's simple, Jorgen. When I first got involved in this almost two years ago >people asked me how long I thought it would take. I responded, based on other >past consulting work, that I thought it would take at least five years. I have >seen no reason to revise that estimate. > >I am a patient man, and five years is not a long time. > >Bob > >P.S.: On your other comments. My meeting with VS is not to check up on him, >which doesn't interest me particularly, but to look at the film reels. For that >I'll make the trip. > Bob.! First: WHAT is the project? And WHY does "the project" usually take 5 years? Please be clear, thoroughly and informative. You say that you have no interest in "check him up". To me it seems (and I guess to everyone else) somewhat unskilled to stand behind a piece of film that, if it is "genuine", would be the most incredible news in all history without checking up on the man who says he owns the film-reels and financed it all!!! And isn't it somewhat strange that Jack Barnett, who DID shoot the "rare clips" of Elvis Presley in 1955, US, that Santili speaks of, died in 1957? But still you claim to have talked to him with Santili as a "office clerk" in the middle??? And isn't it more strange that the documentary of Elvis is mainly about his military service in Germany ("rare clips" here too...) and Santili took several trips to Germany in 1992 - to met Spielberg? The man who now owns the AA-film. And this as he was setting the Presley-documetary up??? ONE WORD = GERMANY!!! Now - do you still say you're not interested in knowing who Volker Spielberg is? Or put it this way - what came first? Kentucky fried chicken or the chicken itself?! Jorgen / WUFOC Second question: >>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:15:39 -0500 (EST) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan > > >Hi Rebecca, > >Maybe I should clarify about Volker Spielberg. I certainly do want to talk to >him, and would be happier if this occurred sooner rather than later. I have >been in Ray's office when Ray telephoned Volker and discussed me coming to a >city in Europe to inspect the actual film. Volker agreed at the time and we >planned the trip. Unfortunately, and this is true even though it may sound >flakey, we were all looking at the wrong month on our calendars, and had set the >meeting up for a Sunday. We discovered this a couple of weeks later and >cancelled, and have been waiting for a convenient time for all concerned since >then. > >Also, let me clarify about my reason for wanting a publisher sooner rather than >later. I have financed all of my own research on the film with the exception of >a US $2,000 reimbursement of expenses from Ray and a $ 250 speaker's fee from >Lou for the Ozark conference talk. So that's $2,250 total income and well over >$10,000 output on this project. There is a lot more research I want to do, but >most involves travel and time away from my regular job. I can't afford to pay >for this myself. Publishers pay a certain amount of money in advance to an >author which is to be used in producing the material for the book, and this >advance is subtracted from later royalties. I want to get a publisher committed >to the project so they will put out some money up front and I will be able to do >some of the other research I feel is needed. >Standard publishing procedure would be to put out a book soon and then if there >is some sort of closure and final conclusions, a second edition including that >material would be published. This is common publishing practice. A couple of >my past books have gone into 2nd and 3rd editions as updates became necessary. >However, if a publisher wished to wait until things were final, that would be >cool with me, so long as we had a firm agreement to do the book. >You are just hearing of the "five year plan"? I have made no secret of that for >quite some time. I don't say that it will absolutely, positively take five >years. That is just a ballpark projection based on past experience, gut >feeling, and some industrial windage. >Bob Bob! Do you mean to publish a book you don't even know if it has "facts" or is a scam? Do you mean to "clear it up later" to get some money up front??? I would certainly not buy a book that hasn't been throughly investigated BEFORE IT'S PUBLISHED... Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 World UFO Congress From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:31:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:42:18 -0500 Subject: World UFO Congress Dear Colleagues, The Annual International UFO Congress Convention, Film Festival & EBE Awards takes place at the Gold River Resort, Laughlin, Nevada, between Saturday 18 January through 24 January. It's not too late to attend and anyone seeking further details should ring this number a.s.a.p. (also fax) 001 (if outside the United States) 303 543 9443 Speakers scheduled to appear include: Rosemary Decker, Colin Andrews, Gregg Braden, Stan Deyo, Col. Donald Ware, Rino de Stefano, Prof. G.C. Shellhorn, Dolores Cannon, Michael Hesemann, Rolando Quiroga Valero, Bill Hamilton, Chuck Clarke, Dr. Richard Sauder (and a surprise speaker who it's promised will blow the mind on 'Underground Bases & Tunnels'), Jeane Manning, Shelley Thomson, James J. Hurtak, Prof. A.J. Gevaerd, Prof. James Deardorff, Col. Wendelle Stevens, Giorgio Bongiovanni, Vladimir Avinsky, Jorge Martin, Jaime Mausson and... your's truly. Something in the region of 30-plus visitors are making their way to the Congress from the UK and most will arrive in Las Vegas this Friday, 17 January. If anyone reading this is coming along, have a safe and peaceful journey and look forward to seeing you there. Anyone thinking of attending at the last minute, get your skates on! All the best, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Sighting near Culpepper Va. From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:42:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:43:16 -0500 Subject: Sighting near Culpepper Va. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Priority: urgent Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 06:58:00 -0800 From: Randy Warneke <rwarneke@boris.dataworks.com> Subject: Hot Flash Sighting Report To: Skywatch International'" <skywatch@wic.net> ************************HOT News Flash**************************** (Unidentified Flying Objects Investigation Agency. International) You are receiving this UFOIA HOT FLASH because you have interest in UFO phenomenon. If you have not become a member of UFOIA send E-mail request to UFOIA@aol.com . Or go to our Web page on the net and fill out the on-line form : UFOIA Internationals Web Page http://www.imagic.be/~mbruyninckx/ This Web page is run by the Director of Operations for Belgium. UFOIA is a UFO investigating agency that receives and investigates current UFO reports through its Hot Line, the Internet and e-mail from around the world. UFOIA hopes to serve the public with current UFO sightings, topics, views, dates and times of upcoming meetings and events, and listings of UFO related groups. ******************************************************************** Unusual sighting: 1-6-97 by Michelle P.E.E.R., Culpepper, Va. 1:00 P.M. EST Northerly direction. Crystal clear blue sky noted with a single, perfectly formed lenticular cloud with only a bit of feathery edging to the westerly end of the cloud. The line of the cloud was solid and stretching East to West. Size: approximately 200 yards long. I watched this for 5 minutes as I drove North; it remained stationary. I stopped at a stop sign, turned left, occasionally glancing at it for a tenth of a mile longer. I then stopped at a main 4 lane intersection and bent down to look out my passenger window to look at it more closely. It had "disappeared". Only clear blue sky remained where the large cloud had been 10 SECONDS earlier. I have seen clouds vaporize in the sky. They took a longer time than this cloud had to dissipate. Michelle P.E.E.R. ***************************************************************** If you have current sightings, testimonials of your personal sightings or UFO experiences, please feel free to contact UFOIA. All stories submitted to the UFOIA are for the use of the HOT FLASH and UFOIA's newsletter and UFOIA has the right to publish them in its electronic newsletter and a any future hard copy mail-out publications. The views expressed herein reflect the individual views of our members and not necessarily the overall view of UFOIA . ***************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ---------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: skywatch | rwarneke |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 02:48:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:37:33 -0500 Subject: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' Dear colleagues, It's time for some you out there to sharpen your knives again as I can now announce the publication dates of of the book I have co-authored with Michael Hesemann. Our book 'BEYOND ROSWELL' will be published in the USA on March 27 and in the UK on May 4. Unless the publishers change their minds these are the dates I have been given. If anyone would like to try and obtain review copies the addresses of the publishers are as follows: USA: Marlowe & Company, 632 Broadway, Seventh Floor, New York, NY 10012. Tele: 212 460 5742. Fax: 212 460 5796. UK: Michael O'Mara Books Limited, 9 Lion Yard, Tremadoc Road, London, SW4 7NQ. Tele: 0171 720 8643. Fax: 0171 627 8953. Not only does this book detail the UFO crash at Roswell, MJ-12, Area 51, it also contains a great deal of information on the Santilli autopsy film and the reasons why we are of the opinion that the film is authentic. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 'Left at Eastgate', New Book on From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:15:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:38:40 -0500 Subject: 'Left at Eastgate', New Book on ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:51:33 +0000 From: Dan Brookes <dbrookes@snet.net> To: skywatch@wic.net Subject: Re: Skywatch: Rendleshaw Forest Incident 1980/81(?) > Could anyone please recommend which is the best researched book(s) on > this case. Also, does anyone know of any web sites with information on > the ongoing sightings in Bonnybridge,Scotland. > There's a new book coming out by Larry Warren about the Rendlesham case, also known as Bentwaters. It's called "Left at Eastgate" and should be out anytime now. The publisher is Marlowe. I've met Larry and feel he's very reliable. He was one of the AirPolice who went out and saw the object. His new book will reveal how the government intimidated most of the military personnel, Larry included, into staying silent for so long. When he decided to speak out, they wiped out his records and have denied him veteran's benefits. He also reveals that one serviceman who encountered the object disappeared and was never found and how others, himself included, have developed numerous health problems. Dan Brookes UFORSO, Inc. (UFO Research & Study Organization, Inc.) dbrookes@snet.net ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Stanton Friedman: The Coverup From: Ashley Rye <106064.3617@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:59:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:39:55 -0500 Subject: Stanton Friedman: The Coverup ======== Let's ask Stanton Friedman if it is possible for the government to completely cover up a story as earth-shaking as extraterrestrials? SF: I think it's extraordinarily easy. In the first place, the good tools for getting the best data all belong to the government. They've got the radar systems, the closed communication systems, the aircraft loaded with instrumentation, the Air Defense Command and so forth. And all that data is born classified. If you were to ask me as a physicist what I'd like to do to find out about flying saucers, I'd say, well, you've got to have a system to detect them, then you need another system to monitor them once you've picked one up, then you want to communicate back and forth and get guys up there with instruments as close as you can when they're there. The government's got all of that, and it's all classified. So, that's the first thing: they've got a closed system to begin with. Secondly, when we talk government, we imply--at least some people do --that everybody knows and nobody's talking. That's not how security works at all. I had a clearance for 15 years. The "need to know" concept is most important. As an example of that, I was working on radiation shielding for nuclear airplanes for General Electric. I would have liked access to secret restricted data on radiation shielding being produced by Westinghouse for the nuclear submarine program. I mean, a shield is a shield. You've got the same difficulties with light weight and that sort of thing. I didn't have a need-to-know for their data. I had the right level of clearance, but it got me nowhere. So, the key is compartmentalization, which was honed to a science during World War II by some of the same people who were apparently involved with UFOs post-War. How did we keep the Manhattan Project secret as long as we did. Two billion dollars in 1942 money, tens of thousands of people involved in the construction of enormous facilities that at one point were using eleven percent of the electricity in the United States, to blow uranium hexaflouride through little holes in a mile-long building--and yet, it was kept secret. Secrets are easy to keep, as long as you control the detection systems, the communications systems, and the interference systems, if you will. I've talked to a number of people who worked for Truman and Eisenhower. Every single one agreed that secrets could have always been kept, at least post-World War II. No problem at all. Perhaps UFO debunkers hope to protect the public from the disturbing revelations that aliens have been here for as long as mankind has, or longer. And that a certain faction of the Military and the Secret Government have kept this information hidden from the public since at least 1947. The controllers of the UFO information must feel that it is their patriotic duty to protect society from possible economic, political and social disorder that would surely follow the Government disclosures of ETs visiting Earth. Although the case for the flying saucer reality is far better than the case against most convicted criminals. If you do it on an evidential basis, you can look at things like Ted Phillips' collected information on over 4,400 physical trace cases from 66 countries. These are cases where the saucer is seen on or near the ground, and after it leaves, one finds clear physical changes such as burn circles and burn rings, landing gear marks, swirled vegetation, dried out soil, and so forth. People say there is no physical evidence. Well, if a footprint and a fingerprint are physical evidence, then the physical trace cases are certainly physical evidence. And the same things keep happening all over the world. The problem is most people are unaware of the evidence, even though there is a preponderance of evidence. Given the physical trace cases, the radar sightings, the photographs and the eye-witness testimony from people all over the world, we have quite sufficient evidence to conclude that our planet is being visited by manufactured objects behaving in ways that we Earthlings cannot yet duplicate, and that therefore were produced someplace else."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:26:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:43:31 -0500 Subject: Re: New Book Claims to Blow Lid on Roswell About Philip Corso and his Roswell "revelations," Kevin Randle wrote: > There is nothing here that I was count on blowing the lid off the Roswell > case. It might be that Corso is laying low until the publication of his book > because he doesn't want to be scrutinized until after publication. I find the > references to his personal involvement in MJ-12 to be the smoking gun about > the credibility of the book. Earlier, we read Corso's testimony before a Congressional committee about the Korean War, full of charges about Korean War veterans alive for many years afterward in the Soviet Union, and close Soviet control over China and North Korea. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that these notions have been quite thoroughly discredited. I've read a fair amount about Soviet history, and I'd always thought the USSR -- despite American notions of a deadly international Communist conspiracy -- was fairly helpless before the North Koreans and the Chinese. The Chinese, certainly, were disenchanted with the Russians long before the split between the countries burst into the open in the early '60s. The idea that the USSR kept tight control over North Korean and Chinese behavior in the Korean War doesn't jibe with anything real historians have found out. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 18 Project 1947 - What is it? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:41:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:41:23 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - What is it? ebk --------------------------------- PROJECT 1947 Description: A computer E-mail network of serious students of the UFO phenomenon and academics exchanging leads, references, resources, and research. This is not a discussion group or forum. The areas of interest are not limited to PROJECT 1947 research goals. List members currently number 50, and growing, represent all beliefs, from skeptic to proponent. The common factor is the desire to share research. The list is private and by invitation only. America On Line has generously donated the server. ---------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:27:43 -0800 From: Ed Stewart <egs@NETCOM.COM> Subject: Newspaper clipping bibliography/DATABASES To: PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Hello Drew and fellow list members: I have been following the discussions with intense interest, but not actively participating since I have just received a new job assignment that takes up most, if not all, of my available time. Due to the intense floods in Northern/Central California, I have been called back to assist the victims of this disaster. For the next few months, I will not be able to devote as much time as I would like to the list discussions. But be assured that I do read and log every message that is posted on this list. Drew Williamson wrote: > Jan, Ed and all list members, > The database issue seems to have gotten off-track, but perhaps thats good. I think that is good. Developing case databases is also a very important aspect in documenting the historical aspects of the UFO phenomenon, but they do not have the same focus as a bibliographical database and should be developed independently of any bibliographical database with a field designated for the purposes of identifying the specific case and linking it to a related bibliographical database that may have newsclippings, or for that matter, journal articles associated with the case investigated. This way, items in one database would not be duplicated in the other, but with access to both databases one could pull information in both databases that are related to each other and build a complete record of the information, both case study and bibliographically specific to that case. For this to happen, one has to use a real relational database program and not for example, a spreadsheet, or a database program that does not have relational capabilities built into it. For my efforts I use Paradox. There are many other database programs that are also probably just as good. My advise is to use the best relational database program one can afford. Also, at the barest of minimums, whatever program one uses, be sure it has the capability to save the database as a file in as many different formats as possible. If one's program can save a database as a delimited ascii file as a minimum, that database can be transferred to anyone else and with some minor manipulation brought into whatever good relational database package the other individual is using. If you can't save your data as a delimited ascii file, junk that program immediately. It will save a lot of anxiety down the road when you want to transfer data to someone else. A couple of comments if I may in hearing all of the commentary on this subject. A database will never replace the actual case files, which in all probability resides for the most part in individual researcher files and are not readily available to all researchers, or to the public. Whereas, a bibliographical database will provide information that is readily available to the entire public as long as they have access to a major library or a library that provides inter-library loan access. Also, someone made the comment on this list that they were unable to add fields once the database was designed. Well, that is simply not so unless one is using a bottom-of-the-line software program which also means they are not using a relational database program. With the software I use, I can add fields at any time without destroying the integrity of the database. The real problem is that if one has keyed in, let's say 10,000 records, and then decides to add a field or two or whatever, those prior records will have zero info in those filds and one would have to go back and look up the original material to pull the info to fill those newly added fields. As such, it is never a waste of time to spend as much thought as possible in the development/design phase when one is starting a new database. As an example, I compiled a complete database of all articles in FSR without having a category field. When I compiled the complete database for all MUFON articles, I included a category field. Sometime in the future I will need to go back and redo the FSR index database and check all the six to seven thousand articles over again to assign each article a category. That will be time consumption that could have been avoided had I not been so anxious to leave the development/design phase when I first started out cataloging the available literature. So, by all means, spend all the time up front discussing the ins and outs of what you think a case database should include and how to include it. It will save you time down the line. > Most of the postings are talking about case databases. It would be most > interesting to see the results if everyone combined their case databases! For that to happen, the individual databases would have to be compatible. One program is not compatible to another, but any program that can save the data as a delimited ascii file can overcome this hurdle with some manipulation. Also, not every record field is built the same way. As an example, someone may format a date differently than the way the date is formated in someone else's database. 1996/01/13, 960113, Jan. 13, 1996 all record the same date. But if combined together, what would a data sort look like? Would it make any sense? The answer is no. Combining databases that have been designed independently of each other is one huge nightmare. That is the situation. Sorry, but true. If one has top of the line software, one can design scripts or macros to automatically change differences in data formating so that is will make sense from the perspective of managing and manipulating the data. If one is using a database program which does have those capabilities, junk it before too much time is wasted. > With regard to a clippings database, I have maintained a database on all > articles I came across for the past two years, so I consider myself > somewhat of a veteran at this. Evaluate my criteria for inclusion and field > choices and see if you fell this would encompass your needs. > The first point for myself to determine was what the database would > contain. I have limited the database to all articles that mention UFO, > flying saucer, or use the term "object" in conjunction with something in > flight. > For articles prior to 1947 after which the first two terms came > into popular use, I had to be a little more generous. If the article did > not appear to be describing a meteor or some other known phenomenon, then I > would include it. This then, might include items like `slow-moving meteors' > etc. Items that seem to be meteors, BOL's or other aerial anomalies are > kept in a separate database. If one's software has the capability of querying the database, there is no need to keep separate databases. Also, I don't see where it is the role of the bibliographer to exclude articles simply because the bibliographer has decided that the article is not relevant. As an example, one article could treat an event very sensationalistic, whereas in actuality other articles of the same event could show that the event was a describeable known natural phenomenon. By qualifying the entries at the front end, the bibliographer could introduce a bias into the database that could lead to not discovering certain aspects integral to the actual determination of what the event was all about. > Articles on abductions or abduction related issues are included while crop > circles, cattle mutilations (if any) are kept in a separate database and > not vigorously sought out. Those events don't seem to have much compelling evidence with UFOs, but if one wanted to see if there were patterns that could be linked between UFOs and those other events, the data would have to be manipulated together and in concert with each other. Again, no need to keep them separate is one's database program is sophisticated enough to query for those elements that one is studying at the time for possible patterns and associations with other events that may not be apparently connected. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The format I use follows. If anyone wishes to contribute please complete > the requested information and E-mail it back to me. > NEWSPAPER: I include the city name in instances such as "The Times" which > could mean dozens of papers. I include the City and newspaper name together in one field regardless of how common the "name" is: i.e., NEW YOUR TIMES. I drop the "THE". Ask yourself this question: Are you going to manipulate/sort your database, or query it for all articles published by the "TIMES". The answer is no, the result would have no significance. For that reason alone, the field for the name of the paper includes the city it was published. > Also in this field I include edition, section, > (if applicable) and page number. Should be kept in separate fields. That makes for cleaner sorts. My experience is that most of the time, unless one is at the original source and not a photocopy of the article, the edition, section and page number of the newspaper is not available. Not a problem for small size newspapers, but if one is trying to find the article in the Sunday edition of the New York Times, that information would be very helpful. > HEADLINE: Both main and subheads. The main headline is the one most > prominent. The subhead sometimes precedes the main headline and is > sometimes underlined. Absolutely necessary. For clean sorts, I fudge on the separators between titles and subtitles. Instead of correctly entering the separators used in the actual article: -, ---, ;, :, etc..., I change them all to one separator, i.e. ":". Purpose is to facilitate and produce clean sorts. > DATE: Date of publication Absolutely necessary. I use separate fields for year, month and day. Again, that helps me to produce cleaner queries and sorts. If I wanted to see all June sightings regardless of year, I wouldn't want records from the sixth day of each month into my report. > LOCATION: Country, City, Region (of publication) Absolutely necessary. Region when available. U.S., Canada, Australia comes as examples where regions/states are worthwhile recording. Brazil is another country where regional subdivisions exist. BTW, it would be nice to have some serious researcher invited to this list from South America. > SUMMARY: Wire service, author,links to other relevent articles, in the case > of sightings I include witnesses, description(s) of object(s), dates, and > times wherever possible. Topic keywords; ie "Ghost Rockets," "Mystery > Airship," etc. even if the term is not used in the article so that all > relevent articles on a keyword search are brought up. Summary is restricted > to 500 characters or less. Here, I think one could run into the problem of loosing the focus of the database: not a case database, but a biliographical database. Cited wire service, author, source reverences should be treated in separate fields. Besides the advantages previously sited in manipulating and sorting the database, fields can always be later combined in creating reports. See the MUFON Index I compiled for examples of how all that information was brought together, even though in the actual database, every element cited was in a separate field. As far as categories go, I would suggest folks to review both Catoe's and Eberhart's bibliographies. Over one hundred different categories used by both. Many of which may well have applications also to case databases. The categories I used for both the FSR index and the MUFON index were a modified compilation of what Catoe and Eberhart used. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Since my database is already ongoing, do you feel it necessary to start > another one? No, but that is a choice you should decide on by yourself. The important think is that you are using software that will allow you to maximize the potential of your database. If not, upgrade your software to the best you can afford. > I am most willing to incorporate all articles you have > garnered for Project 1947 into the database I've started. Just put it in a > box and send it C.O.D.! :>) How many records are presently into your database? > Let me know what you think. Please give me your feedback on this. > Drew Williamson Hopefully some of the above may spark some thoughts. Remember, there is no perfect database. A database is only a tool, not an end into itself, not a substitute for the actual articles, or case files, as the case may be. A datebase has to be focused into what it is designed to do. Bibliographical databases should be focused to assist someone in finding references of relevance to their specific research. That research in all probability will have its own focus, which may have nothing to do with the bibliographer's specific interests - so, it would behove the bibliographer not to exclude articles simply because the article may not be of interest to him. That decision should be available for the user of the database to make. Opinion pieces, editorials, book reviews may have zero interest for someone researching specific case profiles. But, a sociologist, psychologist, or folklorist researching cultural aspects or media impact into UFO phenomena may find those articles of the utmost relevance. In the long run, who is to say which disciplines will be the most integral into providing insights into UFO phenomena? Ed Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Stewart - egs@netcom.com - | So Man, who here seems principal alone, "There is | Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown. Something Going On!" ,>'?'<, | Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal, -Salvador Freixedo- ( O O ) | 'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole. ------------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Obsolescence? From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:18:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:56:10 -0500 Subject: Obsolescence? Greetings to all from the "Bluegrass." I have a hypothetical for you. Would the official acknowledgement by world leaders, etc., of the alien presence in our midst, suddenly render all UFO investigative bodies such as MUFON and CUFOS completely obsolete? (Note that I said COMPLETELY; some would argue that they already are.) Or would reason go out the window and chaos reign supreme as societies the world over attempt to come to the grips with the "new reality"? Just pondering on a Saturday morn... Jerry Washington SD Kentucky/MUFON
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:47:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:59:24 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:57:09 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: The Linda case -- again >I've just looked at some of the documents in the Linda case. >[...] >For the moment, I'm not going to say anything about what I observed. >That's because I'd like to ask a question first. Just off the top of >everyone's head...or after due consideration <smiling>...what would all >of us expect to see if the letters were real? What signs might >immediately trigger suspicion of a hoax, regardless of anything else we >might think about the case? Look for some method to identify the paper, letterhead, etc. Look for information in the letters that _post-dates_ any other information. Take them to a handwriting analyst.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 10:50:01 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:58:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' Philip Mantle, slapped a sleepy rooster when "he" said; >It's time for some you out there to sharpen your knives again as I can >now announce the publication dates of of the book I have co-authored with >Michael Hesemann. I don't have a knife. I have a film can opener. >Not only does this book detail the UFO crash at Roswell, MJ-12, Area 51, >it also contains a great deal of information on the Santilli autopsy film >and the reasons why we are of the opinion that the film is authentic. The film is authentic? Really now, I'm glad you said "we" and "opinion" without laughing. Santilli is a shyster, hypocrite, profiteer, and part-time bum. Unfortunate for you & Hesemann because what Santilli has bummed is your integrity, honesty, and truthfullness. He's sold you down the river and you don't even know it. I hope you make plenty of money on your book because there is one thing you can't buy with it... Character. No Film? No Truth. Live with it. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 PROJECT 1947 - Rand 'Spaceship Study' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:00:34 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:57:14 -0500 Subject: PROJECT 1947 - Rand 'Spaceship Study' >From the recently released Project Sign files: =========================================================================== MCIAX/LHT/nsk SUBJECT: Request or Study by Rand Project [Date stamp maybe Oct 12 or Oct 22] "OCT 12 1948 THRU: Chief of Staff United States Air Force Washington 25, D. C. ATTN: AFOIN TO: Chief of Staff United States Air Force Washington 25, D> C> ATTN: AFMED 1. It is requested that the special study, described in the inclosure be approved and the Rand Corporation be authorized to establish a study of 3A priority, consistent in scope and degree of treatment with the described requirements. 2. It is further requested that Air Material Command be assigned to monitor the project in conformance with Air Corps Letter 80-10, 21 July 1948, Section 3, Paragraph J. FOR THE COMMANDING GENERAL: /s/ W. R. Clingerman 1 Incl W. R. CLINGERMAN Exhibit "A" Colonel, USAF Project Sign Actg Chief of Intelligence Department Study Requirements cc: Colonel Fillars [Fillars, Pillars,????] ======================================================================== EXHIBIT "A" Project Sign Study Requirements The possibility that some of the unidentified aerial object that have been reported both in the United States and in foreign lands may have been experimental spaceships, or test vehicles for the purpose of assisting in the development of spaceships, has been given consideration by this Command. If such craft actually have been sighted, it is believed more likely that they represent the effort of a foreign nation, rather than a product from beyond the Earth. Present world knowledge, techniques and resources are probably adequate to meet the requirements for spaceship constructions, or at least to establish the preliminary experimental foundation for such an accomplishment in the near future. In any case, the design and performance parameters of the craft would necessarily be in conformance and consistent with the established principles of our science. To assist in the collection of information, relating to unidentified aerial objects that may possibly represent spaceships or spaceship test vehicless, and to assist in the analysis and evaluation of such reported craft, technical information that includes the distinguishing design and performance parameters for spaceships is considered necessary. While such information is contained outright, or implicitly, in the series of Rand Project reports, it would be much value to this Command to have a list ot the [???] design and performance characteristics that are believed to distinguish spaceships, together with any further scientific clues that might assist in their detection and identification, prepared by Rand scientific personnel. T-65382 ======================================================================= The letter and exhibit appear to have been classified SECRET. A letter by Maj. Dewey Fournet date 2 June 1952 attached to the 1948 TOP SECRET "Analysis of Flying Object over the United States" becomes clearer when read in light of the forgoing. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jan 97 20:01:02 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:01:09 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 12:12:53 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Pat wrote; >> Do we know enough about gravity to say this can't be done? > I do. And the answer is that it is impossible to shield gravity. I visited the web site, and saw some interesting stuff that appeared to mash up the electronic charge and 1/r, but proposed little that could be tested. However, the Podletkenev/Li antigravity is undergoing stringent trials. as I recall, Schernur is onto his third test disk, while the team in Alabama are moving up to a bigger disk. Now, with a decent test applied to the 'hydrogen theory' (which appears to confirm that old chestnut of mass causing gravity), it should be possible to blow the naive experiments printed in Foundations of physics out of the water. Then again, does it really matter? Someone's coming up with results that appear to show that there is something in shielding. saying it ain't so doesn't change it. James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:48:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:00:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:36:03 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>I've never seen the misidentification hypothesis formally presented >>but I'm sure there are folks who think that misidentification answers >>everything. >>That's kind of silly since the majority of observers are casual and >>untrained ......... >JC: If I may tweak the terminology a bit. I believe the last sentence >should probably say: "..... since the majority of "reporters" are casual >and untrained." Observers or reporters, same thing. The basic point is that the Misidentification Hypothesis is silly (and not really even a hypothesis until formally presented). >>How does one turn the Pascagoula case into a misidentification <grin>? >JC: Good question. I have a friend that was raised in that general >vicinity that would definitely ask the same thing. That was mostly a rhetorical question <grin>, but I'd like to hear what an 'insider' has to say about it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:48:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:02:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:53:52 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: counterintelligence nonsense >Brian Zieler posts a challenge to Peter Brookesmith. Peter doesn't >believe the American government has any secret knowledge of UFOs, >and says so in his latest book. Which, on the face of it, is wildly silly. We know that the US gov't has a number of files on so-called UFOs that they won't publically release - they won't even release the reason why they won't release the files. What was Cash-Landrum??? My _personal opinion_ is that Cash-Landrum was our gov't playing around with nuclear propulsion, we got caught and tried to cover that up (because at the time there were, still are, various treaties and agreements not to do that). But until the US gov't comes forward with a documented and verifiable explanation for Cash-Landrum we have no choice except to accept the eyewitnesses description of the _unidentified flying object_..... >That lead Brian to suspect that Peter is employed by counterintelligence >and DEMANDS that Peter prove his innocence, even to the point of >granting permission for others to search for damning documents under >the Freedom of Information Act: There are some people who think that all non-ETH-believers are therefore automatically gov't secret agents. Since about half the population (or more) are non-ETH-believers it must be assummed that we're doing this for free too...<grin> >>I hate to bring this kind of thing into such a useful forum, but sometimes >>in the counterintelligence game, such questions need to be asked. >This is outrageous. Yep, sure is. >Is it impossible, now, for someone to be an honest UFO skeptic? Is >merely publishing skeptical views about UFOS supposed to be prima facie >evidence that someone works for the government? According to some, yes.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Comments on Discovery Program From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:48:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:02:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on Discovery Program >Date: 11 Jan 97 13:21:25 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Comments on Discovery Program >I said that I had not looked into this allegation myself. I forwarded it >FWIW. >My correspondent said the programs originated from the studios of WETA >(Channel 26) in DC. Passing along unresearched and unverified material, FWIW, is also known as gossiping and rumor-mongering. >I have no way of knowing. A little research, a few telephone calls, as has been demonstrated by two (2) people on this List already, was all the research you would have needed...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Morphic Resonance, the Philosophy of Science From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:48:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:46:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Morphic Resonance, the Philosophy of Science >Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:14:13 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> >Subject: Morphic Resonance, the Philosophy of Science and UFOs, Part 1 >>Can you briefly state that theory and how it can be tested? >According to the hypothesis of morphic resonance, [...] Great, thanks for that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Crop Circles: Hoaxes? 1/3 From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 20:37:38 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:50:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Crop Circles: Hoaxes? 1/3 Errol, With regard to... "William Sawyers" <wsawers@ihug.co.nz> To: <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Crop Circles Hoaxes??? Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:50:01 [Part 2 of 3] "William", >> A Beginners Guide To Crop Circle Making... >The Beginners Guide was officially launched at "The Fete Worse Than Death", >an annual art fair held in London on July 30th, 1994. More than 40 copies >were sold. That same evening it was circulated at a meeting of many of >Britain's major circle makers which took place at the "Who'd a Thought it" >public house in Lockeridge (near Avebury and Alton Barnes for overseas >readers). Readers will be amused to learn that Doug Bower and his wife Ilene >were the Guests of Honour at this unique social gathering. Alert readers of >The Cerealogist will recall that the original meeting place was advertised in >issue 12 as the tack room at The Waggon and Horses at Beckhampton, but your >Editor has been reliably informed that this had to be changed at the last >minute due to growing aggravation between rival groups of circlemakers. This is mainly true, except that the venue was changed due to growing fears of aggravation from cerealogists who were themselves circle makers but had yet to admit it. A fierce breed indeed. >The authors assert that their formations will be accepted as genuine by >cereologists as long as "(a) you are not caught making it, and (b) the >pattern represents a shape which leading cereologists regard as of symbolic >importance, and, therefore, useful on the proselytism circuit - e.g. >mandalas, Atlantean script, etc." Just add 'mathematical sequences' and little has changed. >The Beginners Guide contains only 12 pages of text and illustrations but >this is more than made up for by the good humour of its authors. Should demand require a reprint, this is great blurb material. 'A veritable tour-de-force amongst the bent stalks of cerealogy literature'. >I was particularly amused to read that during preparation would-be circle >makers should "Dowse potential location to establish earth energies. If a >formation is located on a powerful ley-line this will satisfy later tests for >genuineness, and aid in curative effects, healings, orgone accumulation, >angelic visions, benign alien abduction experiences, and feelings of general >well-being." The authors go on to state that "If the formation is situated >contra- to the flow of energy, this could result in the opposite effects; >headaches, nausea, temporary paralysis, aching joints, mental illness, deadly >orgone radiation (DOR) exposure, demonic visions, negative abduction >scenarios (memory loss, implant scarring, sore or bleeding anii [presumably >the plural term for anus, PF], navels, and genitals, etc), and general >disillusionment." >Or possibly the authors, whoever they are, felt that 'anii' had a cleaner >ring to it? Subsequent hints about satanism only gives away who lies behind this audacious work. ? >In another paragraph it is suggested that circlemakers leave "nasty >things" inside their creations, eg "hospital waste, dangerous radio-isotopes, >blood" etc. With sentiments like this it seems that the crop circle mythology >is far from dead and that this battle royale between the True Believers and >the circle makers will continue unabated for years to come. PF. The relevant passage from the Guide actually reads: '... - white goo, for instance, or dew-rusted iron filings (meteoric dust)... or anything - will quickly attract a flurry of interest. With this in mind, the authors strongly advise that nasty things, such as hospital waste, dangerous radio-isotopes, blood, or anything remotely caustic be disposed of in the correct, and legal, manner.' Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:48:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:51:50 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- Per >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 16:34:10 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > With respect to: Persinger's "magic helmet" > Joel Henry said; >>I wonder if they ever tried the helmet on a real abductee to get an >>accurate comparison from someone who knows the real thing? > I willing. You'd try anything <GRIN>.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:49:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:53:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:31:49 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>I _think_ this was done up in a recent IUR article. They said it was an >>airplane, I don't recall who did the research, I don't think it was >>independently replicated, and I think there were photographs and stuff >>in the article. >JC: I have to go through my IUR issues and find that. I don't remember >seeing it. If you say its there, we'll take a look. I said I _think_ it was in IUR... >>Higher!? Naaa. What I'm saying is that we start with a core dataset >>and then the gov't tells us which ones are theirs. (Pretend we live in >>a perfect world.) ....snip.... >JC: Now _that's_ a "haha." Only if your original numbers were on the >money. As I was trying to say, if you find that _one_ case that really >satisfies your scientific quest for truth regarding UFOs, you may find >yourself wanting to microscopically examine some of the dust on those rocks >we've been looking under, and reexamining others we just "tossed" aside. Ideally, if we "tossed aside" some cases using objective criteria then looking back at them would not likely enrich what we knew from the ones we didn't toss aside. Or, I'll put it another way, if looking back at those tossed out cases _does_ enrich what we learned then we likely didn't do a good job of pre-screening to begin with. That's just a guess of course and has to remain merely that until the work gets done and we see what we see. >>Sure, we can all throw away the data once they land and say "Hi!" >JC: Gee, I wasn't thinking about a landing. Even if we had one, if I was >you, I wouldn't throw that data away. So we have a landing, nationally >televised from the White House lawn. It could still be a scam by the >television networks or a publicity gimmick by press-hungry politicians. :-) Hahahaha!!!! (Geez, I thought _I_ was cautious...<grin>) >>Except the question: "How do we presently study other species?" We >>snatch a few samples from the field, open 'em up and see how they tick. >JC: Or tag them and track them? Hmmn, then _if_ we found that one case, >we might also have a philosophical problem (amongst others) here. :-) >Some, of what appear to you to be "way-out" claims, might take on new >meaning. This is purely philosophically speaking of course. Of course I think most of the claims are "way out" because of the combination of two important factors: 1) There's no objective evidence to support them having actually occurred, and; 2) They haven't happenned to _me_. I'm completely open to the possibility that either or both of those factors could radically change even by tomorrow. Who knows? Sure, we tag and track species sometimes. But eventually, we snatch one or two and open 'em up...<grin> >>I personally think we should be trying to shoot down UFOs every chance >>we get so we can open 'em up and see how they tick. >JC: With the technology being described in cases like the 1989/90 Belgium >sightings (police version), you better hope you miss. :-) Why!? You put a couple of Stingers up their exhaust pipes and they won't be so prone to zip-zapping around our atmosphere (<grin>), plus we'd get that chance to dissect one or two of them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 'Counter-Intelligence' nonsense From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Jan 97 07:08:18 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:54:46 -0500 Subject: 'Counter-Intelligence' nonsense First Peter Brooksmith is a disinformation spreader, then the Four Winds TV production company is baselessly accused of the same thing. The bleat goes on, and just as the ETHers can't prove that ETs exist neither can they prove these ludicrous allegations are true either. But it *looks* good: 'Hey, don't concentrate too much on what we are saying because him over there, yes him, he's a disinformation agent'. It is quite acceptible to be a UFO sceptic and to write books - good ones too. In the UK Hilary Evans, John Rimmer, John Spencer, myself and Dave Clarke, Albert Budden, Paul Devereux (now Brooksmith's co-author in a forthcoming UFO book - tremble before it you believers!) and Jenny Randles to a certain extent have all written sceptical books on the UFO phenomenon without debunking. Are we *all* in the government's thrall? Maybe Brooksmith did make errors in his book, but how many errors do the ETHers make in their books? The almost violent reaction to sceptics (and please remember a sceptic is *not* a debunker) is symptomatic of a subject that can't 'prove' itself, in that proof of extraterrestrials visiting earth just isn't there no matter how many times we are told 'the lid will be blown this year', or any of its variants, and so the believers turn on what they perceive to be 'outsiders' within their own tribe. The other reason there is such a reaction to sceptics is that, simply, belief sells and scepticism doesn't. The believers, especially the people who write books, publish magazines etc do not want the apple cart upturned or they might have to go back to the 'real' world. It's pathetic and ultimately dangerous, a ufological version of the witch trials. How long before people are singled out at conferences for being sceptics? It sounds extreme but it will happen. In and amongst all this petty infighting people should remember that there *is* a huge mystery to ufology and that its ecology needs - demands - sceptics and debunkers in the same way it needs believers. As an extreme extension of this, not a lot of people know that the Birdsall brothers, who run the UKs prestigious 'UFO' magazine once wanted, in their youth, to work for military intelligence (source: Degree thesis on UFO belief systems by Shirley MacIver, Huddersfield Polytechnic -early 1980s). Does this mean that all they have produced and said is dubious for that reason? You see how silly it all is? Yours on a huge government pension (which is why I *really* enjoy going out to work each day....) Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Alfred's Odd Ode #77 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 06:32:30 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:56:32 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #77 Apology to MW #77 (For January 19, 1997)=20 Out early this morning with eyes to the sky. Hoping for comets to fly slowly by. Orion done sinking his way to the west, I thought about Hale-Bopp, and what was now best. I wondered about rescue, from those who pick fights To relieve me of liberty -- to dictate my rights. I thought of Newt Gingrich, and his shuffling gait.=20 Stealing from school kids, to spice up his plate. There was chill in the air, even this far down south. I watched placid skies with a smirk on my mouth. The ones with the meters, they are fooling no one. Their days are so numbered. They=92ll all come undone.=20 And it may be I=92ll falter, or suffer some maim =96 It may be I=92ll lose what I=92ve earned and I=92ve gained. It may be new models =96 paradigms if you willed -- But where we=92re now empty, we could all be filled. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Though I=92m compelled to have no respect for =91far-side=92 ethics, I would still rather be a remote viewer than a narrow viewer.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Jan 97 20:01:00 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:49:11 -0500 Subject: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 02:48:22 +0000 >From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: BEYOND ROSWELL Philip wrote; >It's time for some you out there to sharpen your knives again as I can >now announce the publication dates of of the book I have co-authored with >Michael Hesemann. To what extent was it 'co-authored'? James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Obsolescence? From: Michael Christol <mchristo@atl.mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:29:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:58:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Obsolescence? >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:18:37 -0500 >From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> >Organization: Kentucky/MUFON >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Obsolescence?? >Greetings to all from the "Bluegrass." >I have a hypothetical for you. Would the official acknowledgement by >world leaders, etc., of the alien presence in our midst, suddenly render >all UFO investigative bodies such as MUFON and CUFOS completely >obsolete? (Note that I said COMPLETELY; some would argue that they >already are.) Or would reason go out the window and chaos reign supreme >as societies the world over attempt to come to the grips with the "new >reality"? >Just pondering on a Saturday morn... > Jerry Washington SD > Kentucky/MUFON The answer to your question is NO! The official announcement of the existence of the phenomena, which these groups have been investigating for nearly fifty years would only increase their activities. Now that the official admission would have been made, the next step is to catalogue the relevant information and scrap or delete that which is just so much chaff. Sure we love to collect any and all references to "the unknown" in this field. However, now we will need to build a historical base, based on the more concrete cases. Just so many lights in the sky would have to be discarded. Once the "contact" is officially made, between aliens and earthlings, then these organizations must strive to associate with these alien groups and sort the historical base of this planet. It will take may years of slow patient work. It is important that this history be recorded even as all other histories have been. This is part of our "existence." We cannot just throw it away and classify it as just so much confusion. We owe it to ourselves to sort it out. To fill in the gaps in our history. To heal the wounds of those whom society has ostracized and hurled insults at over these years. No, the organizations such as MUFON, CUFOS, etc...and there are many, many more smaller, grass roots organizations out there working just as hard or even harder as the large groups... will not have completed their usefulness. It will only have just begun. The easy part will be behind them. The real work will still be ahead. It will simply move into a different phase of activity. REgards, Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Obsolescence? From: bud.sherlock@oln.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 10:45:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:02:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Obsolescence? >From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> >Organization: Kentucky/MUFON >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Obsolescence?? >I have a hypothetical for you. Would the official acknowledgement by >world leaders, etc., of the alien presence in our midst, suddenly render >all UFO investigative bodies such as MUFON and CUFOS completely >obsolete? >Just pondering on a Saturday morn... I think we would still be here discussing at length about how close we were, who was telling the truth, ---so that's what caused the crop circles?-- who was not. The wealth of new knowledge alone would keep most of us awake. What areas of investigation/ research could we delve into that would be as fascinating for such large segments of the world population? Sunday Morning musings, first coffee regards to all Bud
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:28:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:59:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' I read with interest the "joyful" news about yet more pulp hitting the stands. Another one "claiming" to have resolved the riddles of the phenomena - which its complexity - has produced a rich industry, ran by a handful with healthy bank balances, and thousands of followers who look up to them to announce the 'Second Coming'. Alas, many times they have made such announcements, none of which has come to pass - yet the obedient and faithful hungrily follow their signs for salvation, and solving of the 'myth'. I remember the time when one of the authors of this forthcoming book, still in his UFOlogical infancy wrote me a note asking whether I would have him as an apprentice. My apprentice to be, was THE MUFON representative in UK, appointed to solve the myth - in every shape and form they came; sightings, abductions, etcetera. Since then, he seemed to have graduated - from which school of learning - one could only guess. He might not have been able to solve any of the myth, but he sure has been shrewd enough to learn from his MUFON boss, back in Texas, how to seek for a healthy bank balance. His co-author, has equally colourful background. I wish them both good luck for their 1997 contribution to the field.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Stanton Friedman: The Coverup From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:17:58 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:01:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanton Friedman: The Coverup >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:59:06 -0500 >From: Ashley Rye <106064.3617@compuserve.com> >Subject: Stanton Friedman: The Coverup >To: In_Search_of <In_Search_of@primenet.com> >======== >Let's ask Stanton Friedman if it is possible for the government to >completely cover up a story as earth-shaking as extraterrestrials? [Ashley Rye] [snip] >How did we keep the Manhattan Project secret as long as we >did. Two billion dollars in 1942 money, tens of thousands of people >involved in the construction of enormous facilities that at one point >were using eleven percent of the electricity in the United States, to >blow uranium hexaflouride through little holes in a mile-long >building--and yet, it was kept secret. [Stanton Friedman] I would beg to differ on this point. It is known that there were Soviet spies who had infiltrated the Manhattan Project, and were living amongst the scientists and their famililies at Los Alamos. They were continuosly feeding information back to the U.S.S.R. and this is where the Soviet scientists got the all important data to build their own bomb. On the point of keeping secrets, and at the risk of repeating myself, I would again state that there is no secret about the major point regarding UFO's ie., their existence. If this was being kept secret then we wouldn't be able to discuss them because we wouldn't know about them. It is obvious that a phenomenon that occurs at large around the world is not going to be kept secret, but perhaps controlled to a degree by discrediting the issue. I feel that there has been a continuous release of information, or rather dis-information regarding the existence of UFO's. Dis-information is a process where the essential facts about an issue are included along with lies and near-lies. It was only a few years after Roswell that stories began circulating about crashed space vehicles. Some of the stories said it occurred in Mexico rather than New Mexico. This obfuscation helps to confuse the enemy (us?) with information that is similar to the facts. It is also useful to blow the facts totally out of proportion as in the stories where 16 dead aliens were found instead of three or four. I think this topic about secrecy is moot. Let's not play the game "their" way and get wrapped up in discussions about "how could they keep this secret for so long." The evidence is there--as Stanton says--lets move on and go about collecting more evidence and information, collating it and presenting the world with a package that the authorities will have a hard time refuting. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Jan 97 12:23:32 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:04:37 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? Pat Parinello wrote; >> Do we know enough about gravity to say this can't be done? > I do. And the answer is that it is impossible to shield gravity. And many an engineer in the past knew that it was impossible to travel faster than sound. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 'Out of Town' From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:35:08 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:12:13 -0500 Subject: 'Out of Town' Greetings to All, I have been on the east coast for one week and will attempt to get caught up over the next two days. Please bear with me. ;) Yours, Thomas Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice "One man's magic is another man's technology". Robert A. Heinlein "Love is _the_ most important factor in living, because without love, nothing else is the same." TR
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 12:14:15 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:16:17 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >Sent: 1/19/97 2:01 AM >Received: 1/19/97 10:10 AM >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto, updates@globalserve.net >To: updates@globalserve.net >Date: 18 Jan 97 20:01:02 EST >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 12:12:53 -0600 >>From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Pat wrote; >>> Do we know enough about gravity to say this can't be done? > >> I do. And the answer is that it is impossible to shield gravity. >I visited the web site, and saw some interesting stuff that appeared to >mash up >the electronic charge and 1/r, but proposed little that could be tested. One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions. Certain topographical constructs can be made that make up what amounts to an LC circuit which is but one discrete componet. It is not the objects themselves that do anything but rather the field structures they create. These manipulated fields then act upon mass in such a way as to pair off electromagnetic energy within the mass and thus produce spatial displacement within the atomic structure such that the nucleus simply 'falls' towards the displacement created by the warped electron cloud. This 'displacement' is controllable and can be vectored. >However, the Podletkenev/Li antigravity is undergoing stringent trials. as I >recall, Schernur is onto his third test disk, while the team in Alabama are >moving up to a bigger disk. Fine. I contend there is no such thing as gravity shielding. *IF* they are getting "reduced weight" as advertised, then the reason will be found to be vector excitation and that is induced gravitational effect, and NOT sheilding. >Now, with a decent test applied to the 'hydrogen theory' (which appears to >confirm that old chestnut of mass causing gravity), it should be possible to >blow the naive experiments printed in Foundations of physics out of the >water. 'Chestnuts... roasting on a fire of truth...' >Then again, does it really matter? Someone's coming up with results that >appear >to show that there is something in shielding. saying it ain't so doesn't >change it. There is a vast difference in 'saying' and knowing. No holy absurdieum nauseam will to my 3d Mobius be... for it is a child of the universe, a topography of three... and to it's parameters and math I allude, that a force of direction can with certainly be construed, and upon it's foundation in mass manifest, that force to control mass inertia by operators request. And of those who 'perpetual motion' think this thing to be, thou art in error!, for it requires energy to be... and of those who cry 'free energy' as it's point, I must disappoint, for it is not nor will ever be... and of those who would unto it magic pretend, will find there is mathmagic and no other... Nay, my friend, I can truthfully say; in 3d mobius is no golden way, or grain of rice a day, or spiritual wonder, or reason for faith from up on high, no plan for passion nor reason for love, no great prophecy from above, no fuel for flames or light for night, no mission for poverty or human blight, no magic nor mantra or religion can be found,... in the 3d mobius that I have found... no, no holiness, no given way,... tis but a unique thing, a thinking thing, a new way to mentally play... and from it things of nature are seen, at particle size and the universe supreme... but that as it may is a thing that comes slowly, for in it's simplicity is complexity lowly. One last question for you, James... Is that person you see when you look at 'yourself' in a mirror, you? The point is... Suppositions are a virtual image of the mind. Reality cannot change at all for it is real. The mind, on the other hand, does change. ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://pwp.value.net/ufomus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:35:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:18:13 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again As I wrote earlier, I've seen some documents in Budd Hopkins's famous "Linda" case, letters from some of the alleged witnesses. I'd asked for comments on what I might look for, that might help establish them as either real or hoaxed. John Powell is the first to comment publicly: > Look for some method to identify the paper, letterhead, etc. What methods would you suggest? > Look for information in the letters that _post-dates_ any other information. Would you explain this a little more? > Take them to a handwriting analyst. All of them are typed or computer-printed, though one (and only one) of the supposed writers consistently adds hand-scrawled corrections. This is helpful, John. Any other ideas? Any thoughts on what might or might not be revealed by writing style, grammar, punctuation, and formatting? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Obsolescence? From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:19:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:19:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Obsolescence? >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:18:37 -0500 >From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> >Organization: Kentucky/MUFON >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Obsolescence?? >I have a hypothetical for you. Would the official acknowledgment by >world leaders, etc., of the alien presence in our midst, suddenly render >all UFO investigative bodies such as MUFON and CUFOS completely >obsolete? (Note that I said COMPLETELY; some would argue that they >already are.) Or would reason go out the window and chaos reign supreme >as societies the world over attempt to come to the grips with the "new >reality"? We've had a somewhat similar line of discussion going on the "Drake" thread. ~Pat~ (and others) have suggested that we indeed have had 'official acknowledgment of alien presence' in the form of the 'Mars Rock' news conference. It strikes me that our society has faced many circumstances where it was theorized that 'reason would go out the window and chaos would reign supreme'. Events like prohibition (and it's repeal), the 'War of the Worlds' broadcast, invention of the nuclear bomb, landing on the moon, OJ's 'Not Guilty' verdict, and the general acceptance of the vastness of the universe and the 'theory' that 'we are not alone' in this expanse. From the proposition that the Sun did not revolve around the Earth to the announcement that 'the aliens have landed' (in a Mars rock), our species seems to take it all in stride. If 'humanoid' aliens did land in a flying saucer on the Whitehouse lawn, I bet society wouldn't collapse. I think people would go back to the earth-bound business of working for shelter and resources, coupling and reproducing, and raising their off-spring as best they can. Sorry, Chicken Little, but the sky ain't falling! Why are people so ready to believe the apocalypse will be caused by the empirical validation of extraterrestrial life? I just don't see it! Hale Bopp/Wormwood? Maybe. Decline of the moral fabric of society a la Babylon? Perhaps. The only way aliens might cause a dent in our social structure is if they attack. Since the Mars rock didn't land on anyone, we can hardly call that an 'attack'. WRT the future of groups like MUFON etc., it seems to me that such groups (or at least interest in the subject) has grown considerably over the last few decades as technological advances in this area have so grown. If some 'event' caused widespread acceptance of alien life, I imagine 'mainstream science' would overwhelm the investigation. I don't think this would mean the end of MUFON however. I think they would carry on with the more difficult and interesting discussions of theory, theology, meaning, purpose, and prediction of the next wave on inquiry. I really have to wonder how much attention, and for how long, the media would give an 'extraterrestrial' event. OJ has received daily attention for almost three years now. The Mars rock got one news conference followed by dribs and drabs of sparse theoretical discussions. It's only been a few months and it doesn't even spring to mind (with the exception of ~Pat's~ mind) in discussions of 'objective proof of extraterrestrial life'. It may be the gambler in me, but I'd bet against the end of the world or even the collapse of society every time! How can you lose? (Mars) Rock & Roll (with it), D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:29:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:20:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:15:06 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Alfred's Odd Ode #76 >I would be the first to smash the >face in of anyone who dared to stuff me into their cauldron of >dishonesty based purely on how close I was standing to it. Ufology: A full contact hobby.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Carl Sagan From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:49:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:23:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: 16 Jan 97 09:52:05 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >Maybe I should clarify about Volker Spielberg. I certainly do want to talk to >him, and would be happier if this occurred sooner rather than later. I have >been in Ray's office when Ray telephoned Volker and discussed me coming to a >city in Europe to inspect the actual film. Volker agreed at the time and we >planned the trip. Unfortunately, and this is true even though it may sound >flakey, we were all looking at the wrong month on our calendars, and had >set the meeting up for a Sunday. Three people, three calendars, _all_ looking at the wrong _same_ month...<grin>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Lucidity in Vivid Dreaming, Morphic Resonance, From: Ernie Karhu <ekarhu@shore.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:06:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:26:58 -0500 Subject: Lucidity in Vivid Dreaming, Morphic Resonance, In my discussion of vivid or lucid dreaming as an example of morphic resonance and a possible explanation of extraordinary experience, I do not suggest that all vivid or lucid dreams fit similar categories of reality. Typically,vivid dreams and lucid dreams, themselves, are different categories. Both or either of these may have little or no reality or substance beyond the dream experience in most circumstances as they are usually understood. At times, for me and others, these "dreams" have presented a reality that merges into our ordinary experience. Lucidity is is defined as "clearness of thought or style," and "a presumed capacity to perceive the truth directly and instantaneously." However, the lucidity referred to in the term "lucid dreaming" as coined by Frederik van Eeden in 1913, refers only to perception of the truth that one is dreaming. This is much like the usage of the word "lucid" in psychiatry to describe a patient who is well oriented to time, person and place. Knowing that you are dreaming, however, does not automatically guarantee full rationality. Then again, being awake doesn't ensure good thinking, either. Nonetheless, we seem to get more comic relief out of the errors we make in dreams, even lucid ones, than the ones we make while awake. Why do we do stupid things in dreams? Or more importantly, why do we do stupid things when awake? I would propose that rationality, or perhaps more specifically, lucidity, be considered our prime directive, if not in all experience, at least in the analysis of and sharing of experience and information. One way to look at rationality in dreams is to classify different levels of lucidity. At the highest level, the dreamer would not only be aware of dreaming, but also possess complete understanding of the implications of this knowledge, and would behave in accordance with that understanding on all levels from thought to action. The lowest, minimal level of lucidity would be realization of dreaming, but without understanding how dreaming is different from waking, and without acting on the lucidity at all, mistaking events, characters and consequences with those from waking life. Yet, degrees of rationality vary from moment to moment in dreams, so that one wishing to use a scale of levels of lucidity would have to rate each decision, action, or response of the dreamer independently. Averaging the lucidity levels in a dream might be a way of establishing a lucidity "score" for the dream. All of this is for future research to decide. Perhaps all evaluated experience and shared information should require similar standards as a way of establishing a lucidity score, especially in light of some of the material that is shared relative to both reports of anomolous and the not so anomolous from photon belts or Hale-Bopp. In my own experience, lucid dreams, OOBEs, RVs, etc. occur during the morning or during periods of napping, or during meditative exercises specifically with the experience in mind as an objective. They may occur "spontaneously" but this is less likely except during a nap or in the morning just about the same time or before one would ordinarily awaken. In another experience I call "downloading," I seem to be flooded with information similar to what one might experience when speed reading some unfamiliar but interesting text. During a download, which may last as long as five minutes, it is rather difficult to stop or slow it down. If I do not write out the contents of a download, I will usually forget the details within a week or so, but with some difficulty, I may be able to reconstruct it from what I do remember, for a period of several weeks or longer. The content is usually something that may be of value to me personally, is usually logical or consistent within a personal framework but may not be something entirelly consistent with consensus, such as the "meaning" of an encounter of the fifth kind (willful participation in an ET encounter). Sometimes the downloads have a conversational quality as if the download is a response to real-time inquiry. The event is lucid. I am fully aware of the event and an also awake that the content is outside of consensus, even the consensus of a list such as this one. This "information" is shared FYI.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Obsolescence? From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:40:31 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:25:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Obsolescence? > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:18:37 -0500 > From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> > Organization: Kentucky/MUFON > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Obsolescence?? > I have a hypothetical for you. Would the official acknowledgement by > world leaders, etc., of the alien presence in our midst, suddenly render > all UFO investigative bodies such as MUFON and CUFOS completely > obsolete? (Note that I said COMPLETELY; some would argue that they > already are.) Or would reason go out the window and chaos reign supreme > as societies the world over attempt to come to the grips with the "new > reality"? One could pose a lot of what-if senarios to your first question. Clearly, the main thrust of current research and efforts in proving a presence would change. Those groups willing to refocus to specific issues would survive quite nicely. I think the fall of communism in the traditional sense, and the fear associated with it should have ended the concerns about chaos. There may well be some problems in third world countries as they try to rationalize such information within the context of their religions. However, I think these would be relatively minor and short lived. Dave Vetterick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:49:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:24:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:33:38 -0800 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net >From: johnb@island.net (John Bindernagel) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > I would like to mention two points: >1. Regarding the issue of whether 60% or 80% or 95% of reports are valid - >Sasquatch author John Green reminds us that if only one report out of the >thousands in our database is valid we still have an authentic problem >(phenomenon?) to explain. Absolutely. >2. We scientists like to discard data that does not fit our preconceptions >or established trends, assumming (hoping?) they are errors in measurement. >These "outliers" sometimes turn out to be very important and we ignore them >at our peril. There is the issue of "intellectual integrity" wherin we >really should not refer only to the data which support our case and quietly >omit those embarrassing exceptions and examples which may support an >opposing view. (We have lots of these in the sasquatch database.) Terminology is also always an issue. We don't want to "discard" _any_ data. Instead, we want find the best subset of data upon which to do some analysis. Obviously, we first separate out the data that has a solid or very good explanation. We don't discard it or throw it away or use it to start this evening's fire - we just place it aside in a named subset and continue on with the remainder. Here begins the discussion on whether the remainder is 5% ot the total or 30% of the total. Some favor each extreme (and _both_ estimates are extremes) and it is really irrelevant which number turns out to be right (unless it isn't my number <grin>). With our pre-screened unexplained data we have to make some more decisions. In this unexplained dataset will still be all sorts of things that probably need to be separated. For example, IC1 (Imaginary Case #1) has one eyewitness to an odd aerial craft. The eyewitness owns his a very large farm in Kansas, he's a lawyer and a doctor, a private pilot (retired USAF B-52 pilot) and pillar of the community. Sighting duration is under 3 minutes, and the observation is relatively featureless - just a slightly reflective bright nocturnal object moving around irradically. IC2 has one on-ground eyewitness, a teenager, three other independent non-colocated on-ground eyewitnesses (a diner waitress, a garage mechanic and taxicab driver) one with videocamera and one with SLR, the local airport tracks something on radar and local TV crew film several helicopters flying over the area 30 minutes later. IC1 has almost no details, IC2 has every possible detail, over 90% concurrance among the various eyewitnesses to those details. Do you put these two sightings in the same dataset - Yes or No - and why? Rule Number One: Your reason has to be fully generalized and fully objective such that the exact same rule can be applied to every other similar data integrity problem <grin>. So far I have not mentioned anything about explanatory hypotheses because it would be premature to do so. If we can stick to that guideline we can generally safely avoid the problem of screening our data _based on_ preconceived hypotheses. If we're to do any screening then it needs to be objective. I have a non-answer answer to my question above. I'd prefer to do a first-pass pre-screen of the unexplained data and separate out _all_ the single-witness cases. Then, with the multi-witness case dataset look for trends/patterns. If any trends/patterns are found (whatever they might be) then look for those in the single-witness case dataset. If we get matches _then_ we can start arguing the details. I imagine that a Bigfoot sighting databse has the same type of problems...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 19 Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:06:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:06:28 -0500 Subject: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg Date: 19 Jan 97 12:23:39 EST From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:15:03 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: Bob Shell/Spielberg Hi Jorgen, >You haven't answered my questions, therefor I'm posting them again >along with comments: What, pray tell, gives you the right to demand that I answer your questions? I was ignoring you, as I do most hostile and arrogant people. But, since some nice people monitoring this exchange might be interested, here are some answers: >First: WHAT is the project? And WHY does "the project" usually take >5 years? >Please be clear, thoroughly and informative. The project is my research on the Santilli film. I did not say "the project" usually takes five years. I said I estimate this one will take five years, based on other photographic research projects I have been involved in. That simple, clear, thorough and informative enough fer ya? >You say that you have no interest in "check him up". To me it >seems (and I guess to everyone else) somewhat unskilled to stand >behind a piece of film that, if it is "genuine", would be the most >incredible news in all history without checking up on the man who >says he owns the film-reels and financed it all!!! And isn't it >somewhat strange that Jack Barnett, who DID shoot the "rare clips" >of Elvis Presley in 1955, US, that Santili speaks of, died >in 1957? But still you claim to have talked to him with Santili as a >"office clerk" in the middle??? And isn't it more strange that the >documentary of Elvis is mainly about his military service in Germany >("rare clips" here too...) and Santili took several trips to Germany >in 1992 - to met Spielberg? The man who now owns the AA-film. And >this as he was setting the Presley-documetary up??? ONE WORD = GERMANY! So you are qualified to speak for "everyone else", are you? Interesting. I wish I could do that! I will check out Volker Spielberg (beyond what I already know about him) after I meet with him. Right now it is not a priority. I do not claim to have spoken with Jack Barnett, who we all know is dead. The man who claims to have shot this film, whose face everyone has seen by now in the JPEGs and GIFs which are widely circulating, is not Jack Barnett. Jack Barnett is hardly the only man ever to film Elvis!! You speak of "the Presley-documentary" as though there is only one. I have seen three different Elvis documentaries produced by Santilli's company and Ray has told me of another. This was not a one off project. Ray claims to own the largest holding of Elvis material outside of Graceland, as well as significant Beatles material which I have seen, and material on many early rockers. That is Ray's main line of business. The Elvis documentaries use footage from a variety of sources, but none from Jack Barnett since this material was apparently lost during storage in Hollywood. Ray did take an option on this material, but since it could never be located it was never used. Why would it be odd for Ray to take several trips to see Spielberg? Spielberg is Ray's friend and partner in several ventures. As for the connection to Germany, Ray's company has major German investors (don't ask me for names, you can do the research yourself at Companies House). Yes, Germans are heavily involved in Ray's companies, but so effing what???? My company has British investors, and I have been involved in joint partnerships with British firms on projects in the UK and in the USA. Is that suspicious? We live in a world economy these days, and most companies have ties outside their own countries. Big deal???? >Do you mean to publish a book you don't even know if it has >"facts" or is a scam? Do you mean to "clear it up later" to get some >money up front??? I would certainly not buy a book that hasn't been >throughly investigated BEFORE IT'S PUBLISHED... Can you read English, man? That is not what I said. I said that I would like to get a book into print soon telling the other side of this, and if new information came up later the book would be revised. It would certainly be as thoroughly researched as possible. If you insist on books only being published about research which has been concluded, you would leave out just
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Obsolescence? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 17:12:24 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:39:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Obsolescence? David & Angie Lynn, or more probably, just one of them said; >If 'humanoid' aliens did land in a flying saucer on the Whitehouse lawn, I >bet society wouldn't collapse. I think people would go back to the >earth-bound business of working for shelter and resources, coupling and >reproducing, and raising their off-spring as best they can. Boy are you ever wrong! If that happened you'd see more sales of mugs & T-Shirts & stuff than the Clinton inauguration folks ever thought about selling to raise cash. ...And folks would fall over each other... to buy it! ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://pwp.value.net/ufomus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 16:52:59 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:38:39 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >Pat Parinello wrote; >>> Do we know enough about gravity to say this can't be done? >> I do. And the answer is that it is impossible to shield gravity. >And many an engineer in the past knew that it was impossible to travel faster >than sound. >Bob I'm not an engineer, Bob, I'm a theorist. Your trouble with understanding HTG is in not understanding the simplicity, and that the simplicity is not simple. If you have not reviewed it, then please do: http://www.republic.net/~pparri/gravity I'd venture to say you can get something from it. From looking at my guestbook, I see a few already have... Your concept of gravity is the frist one that I have been able to get my mind around. Would like to hear more on your thoughts of how the interaction with light, the weak and strong froces, and maybe even take a shot at the unified field idea. Thanks for your thinking. Carl Carl K. Long <Slingshot@aol.com> Las Vegas, Nv clark - Thursday, January 16, 1997 at 08:01:03 (CST) Dear Pat: Your presentation on the "New Theory of Gravity" is both simple and powerful! It provides much "food for thought". Thank you. Hector Carreon <hector.c@worldnet.att.net> USA - Wednesday, January 15, 1997 at 10:05:18 (CST) Search for other documents from or mentioning: pparri | 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:48:04 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:43:48 -0500 Subject: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? Dear UpDate readers, In Whitley Strieber's "Breakthrough," he includes some testimony indicating that the bodies recovered near Roswell in 1947 were "fakes," and might never have been truly alive (despite being organic). The inner organs are described as unformed. This description reminded me very much of the "raw hamburger" aspect of the cadaver's guts in the controversial "alien autopsy" footage. Perhaps the AA footage is real and depicts a biological dummy of some sort rather than one of the "real" aliens. Maybe the body featured in Santilli's film was designed to look like what what the military of the 1940s would think an alien "should" look like. (George Gaylord Simpson's classic paper "The Nonprevalance of Humanoids" would not be published for several decades.) **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 NASA and Self-Replicating Systems: Implications From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:45:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:42:28 -0500 Subject: NASA and Self-Replicating Systems: Implications I'd like to bring this material to everyone's attention: "NASA and Self-Replicating Systems: Implications for Nanotechnology" http://nano.xerox.com/nanotech/selfRepNASA.html "...The report remarks that 'The difficulty of surmounting the Earth's gravitational potential makes it more efficient to consider sending information in preference to matter into space whenever possible. Once a small number of self-replicating facilities has been established in space, each able to feed upon nonterrestrial materials, further exports of mass from Earth will dwindle and eventually cease. The replicative feature is unique in its ability to grow, in situ, a vastly larger production facility than could reasonably be transported from Earth. Thus the time required to organize extraordinarily large amounts of mass in space and to set up and perform various ambitious future missions can be greatly shortened by using a self-replicating factory that expands to the desired manufacturing capacity'..." And also "Robot, Build Thyself" http://www.dc.enews.com/magazines/discover/magtxt/100195-5.html (from Discover Magazine) "And when you finish that, build some more of you. Go ahead, fill a whole desert valley. And then produce unlimited energy while eliminating the greenhouse effect. Okay? Thanks"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Carl Sagan From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Jan 97 18:25:41 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:41:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Carl Sagan >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:49:08 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Carl Sagan >Three people, three calendars, _all_ looking at the wrong _same_ >month...<grin> No. Three people, two calendars, maybe only one. I was in Ray's office and he and I were looking at one while, presumably, Volker was looking at another at his end. Maybe he didn't even look, and just took our word for it that the 16th was on Wednesday. Anyhow, I SAID it would sound flakey. But is IS true. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 16:38:35 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:37:16 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >> Joel Henry said; >>>I wonder if they ever tried the helmet on a real abductee to get an >>>accurate comparison from someone who knows the real thing? Then I said: >> I willing. To which John Powell said: >You'd try anything <GRIN>. Having ridden in a car you were driving while looking everywhere except ahead, I'd dare say Persinger's "magic helmet" presents any special dangers I'd be in fear of! :) ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Alien-like image photographed at Lil'A'Le'Inn From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net>) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:35:49 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:44:49 -0500 Subject: Alien-like image photographed at Lil'A'Le'Inn Sorry if this is out of joint, due to transfer from one email to another. But, read on..... ________________________________________________________________________________ To Ufomind list and other lists as may be forwarded to: This may seem, to some, in the odd-ball category, so be prepared to laugh if you like, but I have spent a number of nights in the motel section of the Inn at Rachel, and based on reports by my two different girlfriends who went along with me, three years (to the day) apart, they feel or indicate that they may have been abducted. The recent episode also involved a registered nurse and a Nursing Supervisor at a major hospital in L.A., in the second case, and she says she saw a "blob of mist" coming up and out of the bed, and into the wall, that freaked her out before going to breakfast. I decided to take photos of the room, since I had also experienced being "frozen" or paralyzed during various times of the night when I wanted to sit up and take random flash photos of the room in the dark, but couldn't. An enlargement of one of the daytime photos shows an alien-head image in the wall, with large almond eyes. You can argue, and some will, that this image was already in the wall-wood pattern before we got there, but we'll never know for sure. The photo is on display now at the Museum, and has also been sent to Rachel. Try to see it before you ridicule it. Erik Beckjord UFO Museum,SF,CA. see: http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:17:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:45:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs John, No apologies necessary, except perhaps mine to John, and I hope it's O.K. that I'm posting this to the list because I'd like other people to see it. I'm sure some of them probably had the same question. You wrote: >Hi Jerry. >I haven't been keeping up with the mail on Errol's list and I think the >original question about the Catalina film 'UFO' analysis has got lost in >all the quote attributes. >Are you and John Powell are referring to the UFO film that after computer >analysis was shown to be a Cessna aircraft? If so, this was documented in >a program made for the first series of the "Arthur C. Clarke Mysterious >World" series. >If this isn't the Catalina UFO film you're discussing, apologies. >Thanks, > John >-- > *------------------------------* > |..............................| > |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| > |..............................| > *------------------------------* > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Errol's list has grown by leaps and bounds and a lot of the material coming in is excellent. Questions and answers like this one are partly the reason. (Errol is the other part.) Looking at your question, I just realized that John and I may not have been talking about the same thing and it is my fault. I got Catalina and Trindade Island confused and it wasn't "motion picture film," it was "photos" of which I was thinking. (With a mistake like this, I should probably should take a two-week vacation to the first of those two places..to clarify the location, of course. <grin> ) The case to which I was referring was one that happened on or about January 16, 1958. A Brazilian IGY Navy Survey ship, the Almirante Saldanha, was "on station on an assignment to observe and track weather balloons launched from Trindade, a six mile square mountainous island... . The ship carried both military and civilian personnel." 1 A UFO was claimed to have flown over the island and witnessed by crew members and personnel. A set of pictures, showing a "Saturn-like" object, was taken by a Navy photographer while the ship was cruising off the island. The ship was full of scientists who had absolutely nothing to gain by hoaxing a flying saucer story except perhaps, permanently ruined scientific reputations. Dr. Hynek presented the Blue Book version of the case ("The Hynek UFO Report" . paperback pp 246-251) He also displayed two of the photos therein. 2 However, after reviewing the above today, Blue Book indicated that the photos were taken by an individual who was known for "trick photography" (which he admitted) and therefore would cast a great deal of suspicion on the credibility of those photos even though the case was allegedly witnessed by crew members and personnel. Although other factors were described which would lend credulity to the event, this researcher could discern no possible definitive conclusion, unless there is other concrete information in existence of which I am presently not aware. Those wishing to review the Blue Book version for themselves will find useful information located in footnotes. Coincidentally, most likely because they were taking the many cases that occurred in 1957/58 seriously (probably including this one), the Air Force revised its "Regulation No. 200-2" the following month telling intelligence officers and airline pilots to make full reports of UFO sightings. 3 "AF Regulation No. 200-2, first issued in August 1953, outlined the responsibilities and procedures for preparing and submitting UFO reports at Air Force bases, as well as releasing information to the public. This latest revision continued the practice of having the officers of the Air Intelligence Service Squadron (Air Defense Command) conduct all field investigations into sightings, while Aerospace Technical Intelligence Center (ATIC) performed the final analyses and evaluations." Captain Gregory, then head of Project Blue Book, "wanted some changes made, including emphasis placed upon 'prompt reporting' and 'strict compliance with this regulation by all commanders.' " He also hoped to engender a new attitude among investigating personnel. "The attitude of all personnel," the regulation read in part, "should at all times, reflect courtesy, seriousness, and consideration..." Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Footnotes: 1) Look Magazine Special . FLYING SAUCERS . pub. by Editors of United Press International and Cowles Communications, Inc., Belleville, Lance . UPI Rio de Janeiro "Ola o disco!" : also, Hynek, Allen J.: "The Hynek UFO Report" . New York . Dell Publishing Co., Inc. 1977 . chapter 10 "The Brazilian UFO Photos" 2) Ibid. Hynek, Allen J.: "The Hynek UFO Report" : also see... Newsday, Long Island newspaper . February 26, 1958 : also, National Enquirer . May 25, 1969 . "Hundreds of Saucer Sightings in Brazil Force Govt. Probe" 3) International UFO Reporter (IUR) . Jan/Feb 1993 . p 4 . Webb, Walter N. "Allen Hynek as I Knew Him"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:17:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:47:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:30:51 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mendoza's Secret Life >Gary wrote, about Peter Brookesmith's possible secret identity as a >counterintelligence agent: ....snip.... >The best way to counter disinformation would be with >facts. A good solid list from you or Brian of mistakes or >misrepresentations or character assassinations in Peter's book would do >much more to counter its effect than unsubstantiated charges will. Fight >disinformation with truth. ....snip.... >To stay reasonable, do the following: >1. Devote your energy to the substance of Peter's book. Prove he's >wrong. Fight error with truth. Fight even known disinformation with >truth. >2. Don't make accusations unless you have concrete evidence to back them >up. >Greg Sandow - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: We all know that Greg's logic is undeniably correct on this. The real trick is for all of us to do it. It is not easy sometimes when emotions get in the way. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 19:56:08 -0600 (CST) To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:30:51 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Mendoza's Secret Life JC: I apologize for cutting in on this conversation but I like both of you folks. Brian .. you wrote: >I'll be sure to post examples with excruciating detail, >and Brookesmith will have the right to defend himself. Hopefully this time >he'll be serious about a rebuttal and not as flippant as he was last time. JC: He is not defending himself. He is defending his logic, facts or lack of them. He doesn't have to rebut you seriously and you don't have to convince him of anything. A. Lincoln once said: You can fool some of the people all the time; all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. (or something like that) No one can convince everyone to go along with him on every topic, no matter how hard he tries. Because we're all different, we are going to see things differently. However, those people reading these posts, who can think for themselves, will look at your "facts" and the other person's rational rebuttal or lack of it, and make up their own minds. When the second person doesn't answer (rationally or otherwise) the first person's "facts," the intelligent readers following both people's posts will eventually figure this out for themselves, especially if those original facts were solid enough to begin with. Those "readers" will "adjust" their way of thinking to what seems most logical for them. If you convince the scientists, etc., the ballgame is won. Also, it is important to remember you are not alone in this. It is not simply the logic _you_ present to another person, but rather, the collective logic _we all present_ to that person (and to the world) together. Relax, we're all in this for the long haul. Sincerely, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 STS 80 Video - Content Information From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:00:11 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:48:07 -0500 Subject: STS 80 Video - Content Information To Jack Kasher and the Insiders List: STS 80 VIDEO NOW HERE AND PRINTS. We have managed to get a svhs copy of the Space Shuttle sts80 (Dec 1,l996) video that shows what appear to be LARGE ufos and many shooting-star type ufos. Photo prints of the best features are on display at the UFO Museum. Summary: the shuttle is upside down, in orbit, at night, and dawn approaches. Clouds are below, and thunder-flashes can be seen. A large round bright object comes into the screen from upper left, and gets very large and round and bright in the middle of the screen, then meanders off to the right, and slowly moves to the horizon. As it does so, a very bright and long shooting star type thing shoots towards space. We have freeze-framed this and re-recorded it for effect. Also photographed the series of frames. This thing moves away from the Earth, and seems to be far above the atmosphere, so it is not a meteorite. Six or so OTHER similar objects flash by, in different directions, and other round and sometimes pulsing objects move about at different distances (miles or hundreds of miles) from the shuttle. Some seem to rotate. Then, a second Big round lit object appears from nowhere in the mid area, and moves to the left, as the first one is moving to the right. Ultimately, the right one reaches the horizon and may, or may not, go through the atmosphere, (in the curved band of visible air) but it links up with two or three large, distant, pulsing objects that seem to be not stars nor planets. About then, some astronaut or the mission controller, zooms in on the linking up, which means they were aware of the objects. And did not tell the public..... Jack Kasher can call us at 415-989-5005 and we may be able to get him a copy for analysis. In our view, this video is just as important as the STS 48 video that we argued at LENGTH WITH Jim Oberg about (the skeptic and NASA engineer) and had, in pre-net days, defeated him on his feeble arguments.(Ice,etc). The previous video got on Larry King, and Hard Copy. We are willing to discuss this video with various media. We are trying to get various other experts to feed us some shutle data, height, location,etc, so we can better measure the objects' sizes, which are maybe 40 X the size of the STS 48 objects. And don't forget, some ufos can vary in size--- and shape. Also, we post other people's opinions and research here, so send in yours. The croppies do, so why not you? Ye editor %^)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:07:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:51:37 -0500 Subject: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Hi Jorgen, >>You haven't answered my questions, therefor I'm posting them again >>along with comments: >What, pray tell, gives you the right to demand that I answer your >questions? I was ignoring you, as I do most hostile and arrogant >people. >But, since some nice people monitoring this exchange might be >interested, here are some answers: [snip] >(*)im-per-ti-nent (<=m-pur2tn-unt) adj. >1. Exceeding the limits of propriety or good manners; improperly forward or >bold: impertinent of a child to lecture a grownup. > >2. Not pertinent; irrelevant. See Synonyms at irrelevant. >[Middle English, irrelevant, from Old French, from Late Latin impertinTns, >impertinent- : Latin in-, not; see IN-1 + pertinTns, pertinent; see PERTINENT.] >-im-per2ti-nent-ly adv. Thank you Bob! Sorry to piss you off, but it did the trick. Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 'Government and CNN coverup' From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:17:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:53:53 -0500 Subject: 'Government and CNN coverup' ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 01:09 MST To: skywatch@wic.net Subject: Government and CNN coverup To: cnn.feedback@cnn.com From: edwards@rmii.com (TIM EDWARDS) Subject: Government and CNN coverup Well this might be a little harsh but I'm over sending nice letters to the big boys. Tim Dear CNN It is indeed a very messed up world based on greed, government, press and media manipulation, with the fact that the important stories that are critical for the world to know are not reported. The majority of mainstream science also falls into this category as they are afraid to study anything they can't understand, fear of there credibility, and loss of government grants. Somebody there should do there homework on the UFO phenomanen. Anybody doing any serious research will find that there is no doubt there has been a massive coverup, the military has used technology for their own purposes and gain when this could benefit mankind, and there is an incredible amount of videos and stills showing structured crafts that are very highly documented and have scientist and labs backing them up. I know you are too busy on the Boulder Colo. slaying and OJ. This shows your mentality. The lack of courage by the press, mainstream science, and media to stand up and report the real stories is sickening. Fortunately this is changing now as there is a major condioning process going on as is evidence in referances last Feb. By Tom Brokaw, Dan Rather, Shows such as CBS's two DAY and Date UFO shows with quality video and a show on the coverup, 4 new Discovery shows last week, 2 new Arts and Entertainment shows 2 weeks ago, an upcoming Maury Povich show, MTV is wording on one, Liza Gibbons UFO show, Gordon Elliott UFO Show, dozens of alien commercials and referances on TV, new shuttle footage recorded off Nasa Select TV about 6 weeks ago that is much better then the old one showing again numerous UFOs around the shuttle that move at incredible speeds just before lasar like lights shoot towards them, dozens of ex intelligance officers etc. and astronaunts talking about crafts on the Apollo and Shuttle missions, filming that I have done in Colo. that has been covered on Sightings, Borderline Show, The Gordon Elliott Show, Inside Edition, dozens of newspapers, and worked on by numerous labs. Collaberation of my filming in other states by other people video taping, the massive esculation of UFO activity, paranormal activity, medical and religious miricles, angels and ghost etc. worldwide. The list goes on and on. Did you know the National UFO Reporting Center was flooded with calls from July thru Dec. of 1995 across the U.S? Hasn't somebody told you that its alright to report this stuff now? My 8 year old daughter Brandy has had 4 major sightings that she has brought our attention to, She was the original witness on the main craft aug. 27, 1995. My footage overwhelms the South Korea footage that you guys covered in documentation, witnesses thru out the state on the same day, lab verification and clarity and it is a daylight video. Wake up and smell the coffee. Tim Edwards Salida Colorado Press releases, videos, and information available on request at no charge ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ---------------------------------------------- Search for other documents from or mentioning: skywatch | cnn.feedback
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:16:07 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:50:42 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'- Persinger! >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:00:38 -0600 (CST) >It's true now that Persinger uses EM fields of strengths (as he puts >it) "less than that of a hair dryer." Obviously, people expose >themselves to this type of thing every day. In fact, such fields would >be encountered so often that one could then expect field-induced >hallucinations on a constant basis! My computer has a field stronger >than a hair dryer, for example, and I sit in front of it for 8-10 hours >per day. And *dare* I mention the cellular-phone debate, in which such >fields would be in *direct* contact with users' temporal lobes? >The major problem is not with the possibility that such fields can >induce physiological effects. The problems are that Persinger attempts >to explain a broad range of phenomena and also that his methodology has >been shown to be flawed on previous occasions. Hello Chris, Sorry that I missed the direction of your post. I fully agree. Further, for reasons outside of UFO research, I have followed Persigner's work, and simular. I would like to point out to everyone that the ability(s) to induce altered states of consciousness would make a dandy non-lethal weapon. The secret, if any, to this matter should be fairly easy to solve in any number of fashions. As is often the case, _delivery_ is the tough aspect to it's use as a weapon, and several options come to mind without effort. Best Wishes, Thomas A. Rice
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 20 Rosell, Paul Davids & Cecil Adams From: Ndunlks@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:38:36 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:52:45 -0500 Subject: Rosell, Paul Davids & Cecil Adams The Straight Dope column to which Paul Davids refers below can be found in the "Recent Columns" section. http://www.straightdope.com/index.html Dear Mr. Adams: Regarding your column on the Roswell UFO Incident, May 31, 1996, I was Executive Producer and Co-writer of the movie mentioned in the letter to you, called "Roswell" starring Kyle MacLachlan and Martin Sheen. I have also produced a commercial video ("Reply to the Air Force Report on the Roswell Incident") which contradicts everything you wrote, most of which you collected from Phil Klass, a now well-past-the-age-of-retirement debunker who has never even passed muster as a dispassionate skeptic and who is reviled by everyone I know as a disingenuous and intellectually dishonest writer on UFO's who's followed a slash-and-burn agenda on every UFO case for decades, while enjoying a cozy relationship with the defense establishment during his career as an editor for an aviation magazine. He should have stuck to his promise in OMNI magazine to retire from writing about UFO's five years ago and saved me the hour or so it's taken me to draft this letter. Your Straight Dope on the Roswell Incident is uninformed malarky, as far as I'm concerned, after nearly ten years of examining this case and after passionately fighting through four years of rejections to finally get the movie "Roswell" made. I fought for one reason -- which had nothing to do with entrepreneurship or fostering a cottage industry. I wanted the truth to get out there, and it has, and here are the known facts which your readers -- and you -- deserve to read: The Government Accounting Office (the GAO) recently reported that the military documents that could have explained the Roswell Incident (outgoing messages from the commanding officer and others at the Roswell Army Air Field 1947) were destroyed without proper authorization decades ago. The Air Force never fessed up to that in their 1994 report. Instead, they wrote a 22 page report with about 1,000 pages of virtually worthless "supporting materials" that have no provable connection to the Roswell Incident whatsoever. I long ago concluded that the Mogul balloon report is a weak effort to "spin" the issue and contradicts or ignores witness testimony -- and much of that testimony I personally delivered on tape to the GAO, which found no support for the Air Force's and Charles Moore's claim that the incident can be explained by a Project Mogul balloon train. In fact, Charles Moore's attempt to explain the "strange writing" on the Roswell debris as being flower designs on tape that held together a flimsy balsa wood radar reflector is disputed by the only living witness who has testified about the writing he saw on the debris: Dr. Jesse Marcel, Jr. He categorically states that the symbols he saw on the debris were embossed on metal, they were not designs on tape. He is a flight surgeon and practicing physician, and has investigated crashes for the military. His father was Jesse Marcel (upon whom we based the main character in our movie, played by Kyle MacLachlan), a Roswell Intelligence Officer who described the Roswell Debris in about 1978, on videotape, as having been "not made on this earth." The dates of the Mogul launches and the written records of the then-secret program do not indicate any launch with instrument packages that coincides in time with the Roswell Incident. The soldiers at Roswell were among the best trained and most trusted in the country -- don't forget, it was the only base at that time that had responsibility for the atomic bomb and also had the planes to deploy the bomb. These men, many of whom later claimed in "video depositions" that what crashed was "not made on earth" did not make an error such as mistaking five pounds of conventional debris (balsa wood, conventional foil, etc.) for something extraordinary, and to claim they did is ludicrous. There's reliable testimony that it was the Base Commander (Col. Blanchard) who ordered release of the original announcement that a flying saucer had been captured -- it was not initiated by low ranking soldiers. Three generals have publicly gone on record (and are on tape -- see my "Reply to the Air Force Report") as supporting key aspects of the fact that there was a major coverup, and that includes (1) Senator (and General) Barry Goldwater, former head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, who has written letters stating and has stated on TV that he takes the "crashed spaceship" explanation very seriously, (2) Brig. General Arthur Exon, former Base Commander of Wright Patterson Air Force Base (where the debris and alien bodies were reportedly taken), who confirms on tape it was an extraterrestrial crash with bodies and that "the coverup won't end until all those originally involved with the coverup are deceased," and (3) Brig. General Thomas DuBose, who said the "revised explanation" in 1947 that it was a weather balloon was a cover story concocted on orders that came down from those reporting directly to the Commander in Chief, President Truman, and that false debris that had nothing to do with the Roswell Incident was shown to reporters in Gen. Ramey's office and passed off on the public as the Roswell debris. At the time I executive produced the film, I felt the weight of the testimony, which I reviewed, from dozens of military men and townspeople, made the extraterrestrial explanation credible, and not one alternative explanation has fit the facts as reported by people involved whom I came to know, or their families, or their testimony which I had to hear on tape because they were deceased when I became involved. After making the movie, I knew enough about the case to be able to dismiss the Mogul Balloon explanation offered in 1994 by the Air Force as another ruse to obscure the issue, though the New York Times and Associated Press accepted it without investigation or inquiry, to the considerable disservice of the public. Last July, I was invited to make that point as the keynote banquet speaker at the White Sands Missile Range Pioneers 50th anniversary celebration, attended by about 200 members of all branches of service, including reps from the Department of Defense and major defense research labs. Within the last several months, I have been personally informed by Astronaut Gordon Cooper, in a face to face meeting, that Roswell did involve the recovery of a crashed extraterrestrial spaceship, that our movie (which he saw) was largely accurate, that there has been a half century of official denial and official lies about it continuing to this day, and that he has a very close friend who saw the alien bodies. Gordon Cooper was one of the original Mercury Seven Astronauts. He filmed a flying saucer that even landed at close range while in the service and said the filmed evidence of the inexplicable and technologically advanced craft was "buried" by the Pentagon and ignored by Project Blue Book, which said it could find no credible evidence for the existence of flying saucers. Astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who walked on the moon, believes the weight of the evidence is that Roswell was an extraterrestrial event and he publicly suggested, recently, that those who knowingly withheld the facts from astronauts who went to the moon are "criminally liable" for essentially using astronauts as guinea pigs while not telling them the truth about what is known about alien life forms visiting earth. Recently, I received correspondence from President Clinton, thanking me for sending him video testimony which confirms the coverup and which thoroughly undermines the Mogul Balloon disinformation that was served up to him by the Air Force. His personal letter, expressing gratitude for my materials that demolished the Air Force report, was overnighted to me coinciding with a much-publicized press conference in Washington D.C. by science writer and former NASA consultant Richard Hoagland, presenting evidence that NASA has buried or ignored mysterious lunar and Martian anomalies that strongly appear to suggest artificial structures. The President's letter to me (which followed mine to him by about three months) also preceded by one or two days an announcement by NASA that finding evidence of ET life will be its highest priority for the future, including the search for evidence of such life (even from the distant past) in our own solar system on Mars and the moon. I have no information to support the "alien autopsy" film broadcast by FOX and have been very skeptical of it from the outset, when it suddenly "came to light" in the months after our film was broadcast. (By the way, "Roswell" was nominated for a Golden Globe for Best TV Movie of 1994 by the Hollywood Foreign Press.) I do not endorse the FOX autopsy film, though I note that there has been no conclusive "smoking gun" one way or the other yet, and most statements are "going on instinct" or on personal impressions rather than personal experience, personal knowledge or proof. Nevetheless, the special effects people I have worked with dismiss it, and it does seem to obscure the issue and the facts of the Roswell case. The fact that someone unknown released less than convincing film of a purported alien autopsy in no way diminishes or detracts from the evidence and testimony that there was the crash of an ET craft at Roswell. In fact, there is every reason to believe that real exhibits, in the form of artifacts, debris, specimens, photos and motion picture film does exist and is still being withheld. Former Command Sergeant Major Bob Dean, formerly of SHAPE (Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe) states that as part of his job in the military in Europe he was shown a classified document, "The Assessment," that revealed that the military has evidence and exhibits of numerous extraterrestrial craft conducting a surveillance of the earth, and that this certain knowledge has demoralized those of high rank who are in the know. Recently, billionaire Laurence Rockefeller released 1000 copies of a report he sponsored to various heads of State and key Senators and Congressmen, as well as key people in the Clinton Administration. The report on UFO's presented in a sober and somber way many cases which offer overwhelming support of the thesis that flying saucers are real and that there may be no alternative to confirming the extraterrestrial hypothesis in the near future. Interestingly, the report avoided the debate on the Roswell Incident and presented powerful evidence on the UFO issue, dated up to the very recent past, without it. Mr. Adams, may I suggest you change the name of your column to "The Dope," unless you're prepared to show some hubris and admit in print that you leaped before you looked. Your "Straight Dope" on the Roswell Incident is fiction, and not even consistent or well thought out fiction. If you want the version closest to the truth, as Gordon Cooper and so many others have confirmed, advise your readers to rent the movie "Roswell" at any local video store. The Alexandria II Bookstore in Pasadena has my "Reply to the Air Force Report on the Roswell Incident" for rent. Sincerely, Paul Davids Executive Producer / Co-Writer of "Roswell" Cecil Adams replies: I think the word you're looking for in your last paragraph is "humility," not "hubris." But let's not nitpick. I have attempted to address some of the contentions in your letter below. 1. PHIL KLASS IS INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST, REVILED, ETC. Nonsense. I spoke with two prominent UFO researchers, Karl Pflock and Kevin Randle. Both have written books about Roswell and believed there was some basis to the stories about crashed spaceships. Pflock no longer believes these stories but Randle still does and in fact he was a technical consultant for your movie. Although both men had fundamental disagreements with Phil Klass, they spoke well of him and said he was a person of integrity. Both said they found you rather credulous. 2. THE MILITARY DESTROYED KEY DOCUMENTS RELATING TO THE CASE WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION. Three years' worth of outgoing messages from Roswell were destroyed during housecleaning, apparently when the military records center was moved from Kansas City to St. Louis. The destruction of records was handled somewhat casually but government archivists doubt this can be attributed to a conspiracy. In any case indications are that the Roswell affair was handled largely by telephone. There is no question that the military was genuinely concerned about UFOs during the late 1940s and early 1950s. Secret documents declassified in the mid-1980s reveal anxious discussions on the subject among high-level officials. However, none of these documents indicate that the government had any physical evidence of crashed saucers or the like. On the contrary, a number of documents lament the lack of such evidence. 3. JESSE MARCEL, JR., SAYS THE STRANGE SYMBOLS HE SAW ON THE DEBRIS WERE EMBOSSED ON THE METAL, NOT PRINTED ON TAPE. Jesse Marcel, Jr., was a child at the time of the incident. Nearly 50 years have passed. Marcel's statements regarding the debris have made him a celebrity on the UFO circuit. 'Nuff said. 4. THE DATES OF THE SECRET PROJECT MOGUL BALLOON LAUNCHES DO NOT COINCIDE WITH THE ROSWELL INCIDENT. Baloney. A 600-foot-long string of two dozen weather balloons and several kitelike radar reflectors was launched from Alamogordo, N.M., on June 4, 1947. Contact with the balloons was lost when they were less than 20 miles from the Brazel ranch. Mac Brazel found the mysterious debris June 14. Contemporary descriptions of the debris suggest its appearance was similar to that of a wrecked balloon train. 5. BARRY GOLDWATER TAKES THE "CRASHED SPACESHIP" EXPLANATION VERY SERIOUSLY. So? Sen. Goldwater has no personal knowledge of Roswell. Neither do any of the other famous names you cite. 6. GEN. EXON SAYS IT WAS AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRASH WITH BODIES. Gen. Exon's statements were based on hearsay. He did not become commander at Wright Patterson until many years after the Roswell incident. He never saw any debris. 7. GEN. DUBOSE SAYS THE "WEATHER BALLOON" STORY WAS CONCOCTED ON ORDERS FROM ABOVE. Of course. The weather balloon story was intended to conceal the Project Mogul experiment, a secret Pentagon project to develop a way to detect anticipated Russian atom bomb tests. 8. FORMER SGT. BOB DEAN SAYS HE SAW A SECRET MEMO SAYING THE MILITARY HAS EVIDENCE OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL SPACECRAFT. Neither Pflock nor Randle found Dean's statements believable. Although I don't suppose there's much chance of persuading you, Paul, others may be interested in Karl Pflock's story. He describes himself as skeptical about Roswell but says "there's still a chunk of [UFO] data that can't be explained by known science." Pflock initially was inclined to believe the Roswell UFO stories and spent nearly four years researching them. However, "when I got into it, a whole lot of what had been claimed turned out not to have been true at all," he says. Pflock says he now doesn't think Roswell had anything to do with aliens. "The congruence between the Project Mogul equipment and what we know about the [Roswell] debris is just too great to be dismissed." He plans to discuss the matter in a book to be published on the 50th anniversary of the incident entitled, "The Roswell UFO Mystery: Legend and Reality." Everybody says you know how to make an entertaining movie, though.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 21 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 3 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:41:54 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:29:20 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 3 --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 3 Date: 97-01-19 12:10:16 EST From: Masinaigan CC: Masinaigan UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 3 January 19, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor AIRPLANE VANISHES OVER LONG ISLAND SOUND People in Westbrook, Connecticut were amazed Wednesday morning, January 15, 1997 when they heard that a single-engine plane dive toward the waters of Long Island Sound...and then vanish. According to the newspaper The Day, "the Coast Guard, state Department of Environmental Protection, two rescue helicopters, fire departments from Westbrook, Old Saybrook, Madison and Clinton, and some marine patrols and private boats searched 100 square miles after a man reported he had seen a plane dive into the water." "Daniel Bowes of Meetinghouse Lane was having a cup of coffee at about 7:30 a.m. at West Beach on Salt Island Road when he saw a plane flying low over the water, according to Ralph Buck, a captain of the Westbrook Fire Department." "He told authorities it looked as if the plane took a nose dive, though he didn't see a splash, Buck said." "'He couldn't tell me what it was,' said Matt Brown, who took Bowes' call at the Valley Shore dispatch center. 'But it was definitely larger than a bird.'" "No airport in the area reported any planes missing, according to state police Lt. Cliff M'Sadoques." At 4 p.m., the Coast Guard called off the search. No trace of any aircraft was found. (See The Day of New London, Connecticut for January 16, 1997) (Editor's Comment: Westbrook, population 1,509, is on the north shore of Long Island Sound, about 35 miles northeast of Moriches Bay, the site of the crash of TWA Flight 800 on July 17, 1996.) CROP CIRCLE FOUND IN CALIFORNIA PATIO On Saturday, January 11, 1997, Randolph B. Warneke, director of global operations of UFOIA, conducted a field survey of what has to be the strangest "crop circle" ever found. Pete and Nancy Culpepper are a retired couple living in the small town of Hemitt, California. At 8 a.m. the mornning of December 16, 1996, Pete went out on the cement patio at the rear of his home and "found a ten-foot-(3 meter)wide circle." "The circle was drawn with some kind of black substance. Almost like a magic marker or something like that. The circle was perfectly round. Almost at the center of the circle (but a little bit off-center) was a spot about five inches (12.5 centimeters) that looked like something or someone had taken acid and burned the top layer of the cement off. The gate that leads to the backyard had a lock on it so heavy equipment could not have entered." The Culpeppers' street is a quiet neighborhood of retirees like the couple. Their cement patio measures is 14 feet (4 meters) wide and 20 feet (6 meters) long. Warneke photographed and videotaped the circle but did not take samples of the substance because this process would have significantly damaged the patio. Hemitt is located 20 miles southeast of Riverside, California. (Many thanks to Steve Wilson and UFOIA for this story.) UFO SIGHTED IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA Monday night, January 13, 1997, Susan Reardon and her husband were in their backyard in the small town of Fortuna, California (population 7,591), which is 265 miles (424 kilometers) north of San Francisco. All at once, they saw something strange in the sky. "A bright object similar to an airplane traveling suddenly stopped and hovered silently," Susan reported. "It only moved a small amount back and forth in the place it stopped. Where it had been flashing and moving like an airplane, it was now like a VERY bright star. If you didn't see it moving across the sky, you would've thought it was just another star. It stayed that way all the time we watched it. Anyone else see this?" (Email Interview) DAYLIGHT DISC VISITS CENTRAL TEXAS On Thursday, January 9, 1997, Dan Prewitt was driving on Interstate Highway 75 in Plano, Texas (population 73,000) just north of Dallas when he spied a UFO. "I was driving and casually looked up to the sky," Prewitt recalled. "To my surprise...and delight...I saw a disc-shaped object hovering roughly a thousand feet (330 meters) in the sky" near the horizon. For a moment, a shelterbelt grove of trees impeded his view. "When the trees got out of the way, it was gone," he added. "It was a disc-shaped object that was partially reflecting the sun. It was high enough that, if it wasn't a UFO, I would have seen it flying away or something." (Email Interview) TEAM VIDEOTAPES STRANGE UFO OVER PHOENIX On Sunday afternoon, January 12, 1997, Arizona ufologists Tom King and Mike DeVarennes spotted and videotaped a strange black UFO as it flew over the Chris-Town Shopping Center and Camelback Road in Phoenix. According to King, the UFO "was hovering at a very low altitude" and appeared to stay in the valley west of Squaw Peak, Mummy Mountain and Camelback Mountain. "The video shows a black (hockey) puck-style object hovering, with the camera loaded down on a tripod and trees seen on both sides. The most interesting thing about it was the rapid starts and stops the object makes. It does a quick series of 180-degree turns and looks like it's on water (floating)." King adds that the black hockey-puck UFO was seen over Phoenix eight days earlier on January 4. (Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp and UFO Updates for this story.) MYSTERIOUS RUMBLING HEARD IN EVERGLADES Sportsmen in Fort Lauderdale, Florida are talking about mysterious booming and rumbling noises heard west of the city in the Everglades. The latest incident occurred about 6 p.m. on Saturday, January 11, 1997. Jim Bob Landry, owner and skipper of the Kendall Queen, had left the dock off Florida Highway 27 near Commercial Boulevard earlier that day with a sportsfishing party. He sailed west on the Cypress Creek Canal and entered that part of the Everglades known as the Loxahatchee National Wildlife Refuge. As the boat was leaving the area, about 15 miles east of Belle Glade, Landry and his guests heard a "very loud rumbling noise." When they returned to the Lauderdale dock, they were met by "a fish-and-wildlife agent we'd never seen before," Landry said, "He didn't look like any fish- and-wildlife I'd ever seen. More like FBI or BATF. He says no one's allowed in the Lox after 6 p.m." Landry said he has talked to other captains, and they too have heard prolonged mysterious rumbling noises in the Loxahatchee region. The booming was first noticed the previous week--January 4. (Email Interview) (Editor's Comment: UFO Miami, please take note!) ISRAELI MAN MUGGED BY TWO SMALL ALIENS Although the saucers failed to meet last week's date for a Tel Aviv rendezvous, the Israeli newspaper Maariv reported yet another bizarre alien encounter in the West Bank. The night of December 29, 1996, Daoud Ahmad was asleep in his bedroom at the Nur-a-Shamat camp on the West Bank. "I awoke at one in the morning feeling threatened," he said. "I tried to get out of bed, but two creatures jumped on me and beat me." Ahmad described the intruders as "60 centimeters (2 feet) in height, each had only one eye," with large heads and a single stripe of hair worn Mohawk-style across their bald heads. "They were very strong," he added, "They wore black leather clothes...After they beat me, I lost consciousness." After the altercation, Ahmad was taken to a local hospital where he was treated and released. He sustained seven severe bruises to the face. According to Palestinian TV, neighbors heard the ruckus coming from the bedroom but saw no one emerge from the house afterward. (See CNI News, Volume 2, Number 21, Part 3. Many thanks to Mike Lindemann and his staff for this story.) PYRAMIDAL UFO RETURNS TO BRAZIL The giant pyramid-shaped UFO seen over the state of Rio Grande do Sul last November has returned to Brazil. The huge UFO, whose base measures 100 meters (330 feet) in diameter, was spotted over the city of Alagoa Grande, in the northeastern state of Paraiba, last week. The UFO ("um OVNI gigante baixou") moved slowly over the rooftops, emitting colored lights, according to Luiz Eduardo Nelso. A rumbling sound was heard coming from the object. After fifteen minutes, the UFO rose suddenly, zooming away into space. Alagoa Grande is 80 kilometers (50 miles) west of Joao Pessoa, the state capital of Paraiba. Alagoa Grande is also 25 kilometers (16 miles) southwest of Guarabira, which has had numerous UFO sightings dating back to April 1996. (Muito obrigado to Oriel Farias for this story.) FUN UFO WEBSITES Tony Craddock's new CSETI site is now ready. Tony offers all-new graphics and format and actual field reports. Try http://www.cseti.com Steve Thomas is the proud sponsor of Britain's newest UFO website. He's concentrating on UFO sightings in the UK and can be found at this URL: http://www.cco.net/~trufax/menu/news.html#british Remember the story of Ezekiel's "wheel" in the Bible? Well, this early-day UFO is the main topic at Glenn Scheper's new site. Check it out at http://www.gentech.com/~employee/glenn/ ezekiel.htm Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm And, for back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, try our archive at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/ roundup.hts That's it for this week. Best wishes from "the newspaper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP!" UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any items from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites provided that they credit the newsletter and editor by name and cite the date of the newsletter in which the item appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jan 97 10:24:04 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:32:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:48:04 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@globalserve.NET >Subject: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? >Dear UpDate readers, >In Whitley Strieber's "Breakthrough," he includes some testimony >indicating >that the bodies recovered near Roswell in 1947 were "fakes," and might >never >have been truly alive (despite being organic). The inner organs are >described >as unformed. >This description reminded me very much of the "raw hamburger" aspect of >the >cadaver's guts in the controversial "alien autopsy" footage. Perhaps >the AA >footage is real and depicts a biological dummy of some sort rather than >one of >the "real" aliens. Maybe the body featured in Santilli's film was >designed to >look like what what the military of the 1940s would think an alien >"should" >look like. (George Gaylord Simpson's classic paper "The Nonprevalance of >Humanoids" would not be published for several decades.) Hi Mac, Nice to see someone who is really thinking about this. I speculated back in 1995 that these things might be "biots" or biological robots, based on their apparently simplified internal structure and the lack of gyri and sulci on the brain. Using a mammalian model, a creature with a smooth brain like this could not be particularly smart. That is still one possibility of what these beings are. However, I also interviewed an active Air Force pathologist who specializes in crash victims. He commented that the "mush" in the abdominal cavity is consistent with the victims of high speed air crashes, where impact damage may leave the body superficially looking undamaged but can turn some internal organs into sludge like we see. The overall undamaged appearance of the body (except for the wounds) but apparent bruising could be consistent with a high speed crash with some sort of restraining device, maybe even an advanced airbag type of thing. To me one of the most interesting things is that prosthetic device removed from the heart, which several thoracic surgeons have identified as an artificial heart valve. Both bodies have it, and neither one has a scar on the chest from its implanting. This implies that these creatures are "manufactured", as also does the lack of navel. When we were first getting into space we sent up monkeys and chimps as test subjects before we sent up the first humans. We considered them similar enough to us, but expendable. If we could have manufactured biological robots, might these not have been our first choice? It has been argued that these creatures look "too human" to be ET. I agree. I think their origin is 100% terrestrial. I suspect that DNA tests have now been done and have verified that their basic DNA is human, although either artificially modified by genetic engineering or hybridization. Where do I think they came from? I think they most likely came from the distant future or past, in other words that they are temponauts not astronauts. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:34:14 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:29:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 10:50:01 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Philip Mantle, slapped a sleepy rooster when "he" said; > >It's time for some you out there to sharpen your knives again as I can > >now announce the publication dates of of the book I have co-authored with > >Michael Hesemann. > I don't have a knife. I have a film can opener. > >Not only does this book detail the UFO crash at Roswell, MJ-12, Area 51, > >it also contains a great deal of information on the Santilli autopsy film > >and the reasons why we are of the opinion that the film is authentic. > The film is authentic? Really now, I'm glad you said "we" and > "opinion" without laughing. Santilli is a shyster, hypocrite, > profiteer, and part-time bum. Unfortunate for you & Hesemann > because what Santilli has bummed is your integrity, honesty, > and truthfullness. He's sold you down the river and you don't > even know it. I hope you make plenty of money on your book > because there is one thing you can't buy with it... Character. > No Film? No Truth. Live with it. > ~Pat~ Hi Pat, Does this mean you will not be reviewing the book ? All the best, Phlip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:15:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:29:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life Jerry Cohen wrote: > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:17:52 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life > No one can convince everyone to go along with him on every topic, no matter > how hard he tries. [snip] > Also, it is important to remember you are not alone in this. It is not > simply the logic _you_ present to another person, but rather, the > collective logic _we all present_ to that person (and to the world) > together. > Relax, we're all in this for the long haul. As always, Jerry makes a lot of sense. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Cameraman Image From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:30:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:30:44 -0500 Subject: Cameraman Image Date: 20 Jan 97 08:49:15 EST From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Cameraman Image Errol, I was somewhat distressed to find that my response to Jorgen Westman had been sent out with what is apparently one of the images of Jack attached, which might make people think that I had sent the image. If this is, indeed, one of the images of Jack, I would appreciate it if you would let everyone know that it DID NOT come from me. My uncertainty over the content of the image springs from my inability to decode it. Bob _________________________________ I would like to point out that the images of the 'cameraman' were sent to me anonymously, and NOT by Bob. _I_ attached them to Bob's message intending to add a footnote to it - I don't recall what the distraction was that caused me to not do so. My apologies to Bob. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Philadelphia 'incident' From: "Art & Peg Kopp" <artnpeg@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:06:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:35:00 -0500 Subject: Philadelphia 'incident' I am trying to find information about an incident that supposedly took place in Philadelphia, PA, perhaps in the 1950's, where a navy ship and crew were subjected to an experiment like in Star Trek wherein humans are transported and beamed elsewhere. Is there any documentation of this incident available on the internet? Peggy Kopp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Obsolescence? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jan 97 10:24:01 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:31:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Obsolescence? >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Obsolescence? >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 17:12:24 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Pat, The idea that what is happening is visits from ETs has always seemed to me to be overly simplistic, and not a good reason for the level of secrecy involved in the coverup. If the truth ever comes out, I think is will be far weirder than this, and of such extreme strangeness that it would knock the foundations out from under major social structures, religion in particular. Of the UFO investigators, I think Jacques Vallee has come closest to figuring out what is going on. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 A Planet Called 'Jennifer'? From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:36:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:33:18 -0500 Subject: A Planet Called 'Jennifer'? The Electronic Telegraph UK News Sunday 19 January 1997 Back-garden stargazer pinpoints new planet By John Gaskell A BACK garden astronomer has discovered an unknown planet which the world's most powerful telescopes have missed. A lifelong amateur, George Sallit, 44, the head of radiation safety at Aldermaston, suspected he had found something new at the end of October. Now he is sure of his find but must wait until he can ascertain its orbit so that his discovery can be confirmed. At the Harvard Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics in Washington yesterday, Dr Brian Marsden, the director of the Minor Planets Centre, said that he will urge Mr Sallit to try to keep track of 1996TF15, as the centre labels it, so that it can be validated. "The object was followed by him for 27 days in October but if he could keep track of it now then we would have an arc of three months to give us a much better orbit and the possibility of finding it more easily," Dr Marsden said. Minor planets, of which the largest is Ceres with a 1,000km diameter, are usually located in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. They are normally found by professionals. Mr Sallit is among only four British amateurs this century to have discovered one. "I was ecstatic, really pleased, because I had spent so long looking and finding nothing," he said last week. Mr Sallit was 11 when his parents bought him his first telescope. "As a child I would look at the stars and think: 'Gosh, this is interesting. I could learn something about this.' It's one of the only subjects where you can go out and find something that has never been seen before. As far as I am concerned, my planet is quite an achievement and proof that amateurs have something to contribute." Computers have given amateurs the chance to compete against professionals. Mr Sallit's is linked to a 12in-diameter telescope and an ex-Nasa electronic camera in his purpose-built observatory at the bottom of his garden at Bradfield, Berks. "Blink Comparison" software compares series of photographs of the sky taken at hourly intervals and discerns any movement. Because the orbit of a new planet is unknown it takes hours of calculation to be sure that a discovery has been made. "It's difficult to say exactly when it will reappear this year," Mr Sallit said. "It depends on the brightness of the objects and how far over the horizon they are, and, of course, the weather." Soon he should have the distinction of being allowed to name his planet. "Perhaps I shall call it Jennifer, after my wife, to get my priorities right," he said. - end - JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Obsolescence? From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:40:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:34:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Obsolescence? >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Obsolescence? >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 17:12:24 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >David & Angie Lynn, or more probably, just one of them said; >>If 'humanoid' aliens did land in a flying saucer on the Whitehouse lawn, I >>bet society wouldn't collapse. I think people would go back to the >>earth-bound business of working for shelter and resources, coupling and >>reproducing, and raising their off-spring as best they can. > Boy are you ever wrong! If that happened you'd see more > sales of mugs & T-Shirts & stuff than the Clinton inauguration > folks ever thought about selling to raise cash. > ...And folks would fall over each other... to buy it! > ~Pat~ Point taken. You're probably right. I stand corrected. Now... can I interest you in a "Mars Rock" t-shirt for $35US, sweat shirt for $75US, or perhaps the limited edition leather jacket for $750US, ~Pat~? D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Ghost Rocket Project From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:13:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:48:11 -0500 Subject: Ghost Rocket Project The Archives for UFO Research in Sweden is preparing a report in English on the 1946 "ghost rocket" era. They are seeking 1946 accounts. Also, some researchers may have entered British and American newspaper account into there computers. If you such items you would be willing to share, please contact me at jan@cyberzone.net Thank you. Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jan 97 20:08:28 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:50:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:07:10 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >>>>>Thank you Bob! >Sorry to piss you off, but it did the trick. >Jorgen / WUFOC You don't have to get me mad to get answers. Just ask them politely and directly, and if I know the answer and am free to give it to you I will. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:00:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:54:49 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - Pe >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 16:38:35 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >>> Joel Henry said; >>>>I wonder if they ever tried the helmet on a real abductee to get an >>>>accurate comparison from someone who knows the real thing? > Then I said: >>> I willing. > To which John Powell said: >>You'd try anything <GRIN>. > Having ridden in a car you were driving while looking everywhere > except ahead, I'd dare say Persinger's "magic helmet" presents > any special dangers I'd be in fear of! :) Hahahahhaha!!! Hey! I kept most of the tires on the road most of the time <grin>! I don't know why so many people make so much out of Persinger's work, its very tentative and far from complete. There's positively a magnetic field association with UFOs and there's positively a relationship between eologic activity and subsequent UFO sightings. These are interesting but they really don't prove anything yet.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 FO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:00:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:53:51 -0500 Subject: FO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:35:25 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >As I wrote earlier, I've seen some documents in Budd Hopkins's famous >"Linda" case, letters from some of the alleged witnesses. >I'd asked for comments on what I might look for, that might help >establish them as either real or hoaxed. John Powell is the first to >comment publicly: >> Look for some method to identify the paper, letterhead, etc. >What methods would you suggest? If it doesn't have a letterhead look for the watermark. You can get a reference on watermarks at the library. This is probably a real longshot but possibly the watermark (the printer) could be traced to a gov't agency (among others). >> Look for information in the letters that _post-dates_ any other information. >Would you explain this a little more? One of the things I noticed about the Linda Case (when Budd was first test marketing it on MUFON awhile back) was that the whole information content developed rather slowly and kind of sequentially. Its possible that the letters may contain a 'slip,' a mistake that would not have been noticed at the time but may be noticed now that the information flow is old and mostly stopped. Maybe something mentioned in the letters that became a lead for other information, maybe something mentioned that was 'out of sequence.' Does that make sense? >> Take them to a handwriting analyst. >All of them are typed or computer-printed, though one (and only one) of >the supposed writers consistently adds hand-scrawled corrections. >This is helpful, John. Any other ideas? Any thoughts on what might or >might not be revealed by writing style, grammar, punctuation, and >formatting? Well, I have a very low opinion of the Linda Case, as you might have guessed, but a handwriting analysis might show that different letters were from possibly the same author although with such a small sample that would only be highly circumstantial at best.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Fwd: World Meditation Day From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 13:01:22 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:49:07 -0500 Subject: Fwd: World Meditation Day Subject: World Meditation Day Sent: 1/19/97 9:50 PM Received: 1/20/97 11:14 AM From: Kurt Wright, kwright@maui.net To: Hale-Bopp List, kwright@maui.net Dear Friends, While there have been many announcements floating around the internet about World Meditation Day, this one stands out to me for its clarity in explaining why and how each of us might want to participate in our own way. --Kurt Wright ----------------------------------------- World Meditation Day Thursday, January 23rd, 1997 Between 12:00 and 1:30 Local Time Dr. John Miles Evans JohnMEvans@aol.com 11 January 1997 On 23 January 1997 a group of eight planets will form a variant of an unusual pattern -- a six-pointed star. Sometimes known as a Grand Sextile or Star of David, this pattern is an integration of various diverse energies into a harmonious whole. This variant is the more unusual in that it is actually a five-pointed star, but aligned so that the Ascendent -- the point on the horizon -- makes the sixth "point". As a result, meditation or other intentional activity at this time may serve to trigger the latent energies in the overall planetary pattern -- completing the circuit, as it were, through the efforts we make at this time. The exact time when this occurs varies with locality. For most locations in the northern hemisphere the time is between 12 noon and 1:00 pm, but there are some locations where the time may be as late as 1:30 pm; Miami, Florida is one such location.(1) For those who are not students of astrology, a brief introduction may be appropriate. One can understand any pattern of the planets as a symbolic representation describing the nature and qualities of a particular moment of time -- operating through the principle CG Jung termed "synchronicity."(2) While written language is linear -- one word following another -- the "language" of astrology is a complex pattern, which cannot be adequately translated into a linear form. But some sense of the meaning of this pattern may be gleaned through studying the individual planets involved, and their location by "sign" and "house" (two indicators of qualities expressed by planets in the pattern). In the planetary pattern for World Meditation Day, the Sun, Jupiter, and Uranus are all "conjunct" (together) at the beginning of Aquarius, in the Ninth House, along with Neptune in late Capricorn in the Ninth House. These planets are harmoniously related to Saturn in Aries in the 11th, Pluto in Sagittarius in the 7th, and Mars in Libra conjunct the North Node in the 5th House. The fifth "point" is the Moon in Leo in the 3rd House. Aquarius is the sign most connected with humanity as a whole, and is particularly activated by group efforts. That three planets -- representing Being and Identity (Sun), Expansion and Wisdom (Jupiter), and Sudden Awakening (Uranus) -- are all concentrated in Aquarius is quite significant. Mars, the planet of activity, conjuncting the North Node of the Moon, an indicator of spiritual integration and development, in the 5th house, that of creativity and personal expression, indicates that those who take action to participate in the pattern may further their own spiritual awareness. Pluto, the planet of purification and regeneration, is located in Sagittarius in the 7th House, symbolizing a transformation of our belief systems through forming committed relationship with those aspects of ourselves which we may have ignored or taken for granted previously. In this case "ourselves" may represent our common humanity, and the need to understand all human beings as being equally valuable and important. The Moon, located in Leo in the 3rd house is opposing the planets in Aquarius. This gives added dynamic tension to the overall pattern. The Moon is symbolic of our deepest feelings, Leo has a great deal to do with our sense of identity, and the Third House is the area of mental concepts. This implies that there may be a tendency to oppose the movement toward a broader understanding and a new orientation toward ourselves because of our emotional attachment to old ideas about life, and old beliefs about our sense of who we are. Neptune, located in the Ninth House in Capricorn, indicates the possibility of dissolving old belief systems to make way for the new. This idea is presented in different ways in several areas of the overall "chart" for the day. The sixth "point" is the Ascendent in early Gemini. Gemini is strongly associated with the conscious mind. By actively engaging in meditation or other focused mental activity at this particular time, one has the opportunity both to expand one's own awareness, and also to further the expansion of humanity as a whole -- breaking down the barriers separating each of us as individuals, and becoming participants in a type of "world mind", in which we recognize our common humanity as the most important component. This is emphasized by the presence of Saturn, the planet symbolizing traditional structure and limits, in Aries, the sign of new beginnings (where Saturn's power is weakest) and in the 11th or (Aquarian) House where that structure which can be developed is focused on the birth of a "group mind". Finally, Mercury, the planet most associated with Gemini, is in Capricorn in the 8th House, indicated the possibility of purification and transformation of our conceptual picture of life through focused effort, with the need to let go of old emotional ties to past concepts about how life is. Astrologers will see much more in this pattern than presented here. But for those who are not astrologers, I hope this overview will give you some sense of the significance of this opportunity for both individual and group development, and the importance of taking time on 23 January between 12 noon and 1:00 pm to participate quietly in this important event -- in whatever way seems best to you. One last point -- "intent" is all important with this pattern. For those who wish to make maximum use of this unusual opportunity, a period of preparation in which you look at your own deepest beliefs and desires for change may be useful. And practice meditations, in which you work on focusing your intent for what you wish to achieve on 23 January, may also be helpful. My blessings to you in however you choose to participate. Footnotes (1) For those who would like the exact time for your location, consult a local astrologer and ask for the time when the Ascendant is at 4-5 degrees Gemini on 23 January, 1997. (2) Jung, CG. "Synchronicity, an Acausal Connecting Principle". In Collected Works, Vol. 8: Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche. ----------------- TO REMOVE YOUR NAME FROM THIS LIST, please send a message to: <kwright@maui.net> with the request: remove from H/B List Search for other documents from or mentioning: pparri | kwright |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Joshua Shapiro's trip to Brazil From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <rshapiro@interaccess.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:53:11 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:52:40 -0500 Subject: Joshua Shapiro's trip to Brazil EBK thanks for adding us ... we look forward to be updated as things go into the last turn for secrecy of the UFOs some notes from my trip to Brasil I spoke with Claudier Covo in Sao Paulo, there is an article of his we have on our site in English ... he has agreed to participate in our sister site in Brasil Cosmica and write a monthly page update. He said in Brasil in the last 15 months they had 3-4 as many sightings as the previous 10 years or for all recorded history of UFO sightings they expect 1997 to see 3-4 the number of sightings as the previous 15 months ... also that some revelation about UFOs is coming up he said the beings from Varginha are in a university in Campinhas near Sao Paulo and that US people were on the scene from the beginning also the beings captured (4 beings, 3 alive and one was dead, shot by a military person) are more animals ... possibly servants to the Alphas or what we call the Greys a person driving on the highway saw the ship as it was crashing ... it had a hole in it and there was smoke coming from it ... the area of the crash is totally clean ... he believes these beings ejected before the crash ... there is some grass in this region which is very green compared to the other crash ... there were UFO sightings in Varginha prior to the crash Near Alto Paraiso ... Pedro Cunha, a Brasilian researcher and I spoke with a local doctor about a girl he treated ... she had geometric slashed lines all at the same degree of depth all over her body from a UFO contact ... these lines disappeared shortly there after ... in this case it appeared some UFO beings were protecting some area full of minerals ... they tried to go back since they were very religious (catholic) and exercise these beings but it didn't work ... is your web site part of UFO NET Global ... I don't believe so keep up the good work Joshua Shapiro V J Enterprises
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Alfred's Odd Ode #79 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:26:34 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:51:35 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #79 Apology to MW #79 (For January 21, 1997)=20 A pox on the man who won=92t tell what he knows. Disgrace, for his female equivilent. Ruin an industry that profits from woe, And escape our present predicament. Hill and Billary, I saw them this morning -- Dancing all smiles and glows. Locked in their circle of pride and neglect, They spent too much bread and it shows. We in America =96 we=92re wide, high, and mighty. We drive in our cars =96 buy our cloths. But we=92re living so well, at the cost of the many. Dismissed with a short, "So it goes." The alien view, as it=92s seen from the comet, Is stripped of the reasons we use. See advantage, position, and consumptive possessions Restrict, and confine, and abuse. It=92s respect that is making our misery worse. It=92s gone, not forgotten, I=92m thinking. It=92s lost in the crush of the rush to consume Slick cars, harsh tones, and beer drinking. It=92s just the way some would have it -- Confused, uninformed, and benign. Think they=92d have best interest at heart? But their gain is too _great_ to be kind . . . So a pox on the meter by which we=92re betrayed, And kept in the dark, and kept stupid. The ones with the answers will stand there exposed. And they won=92t get their arrows from cupid. =09 Lehmberg@snowhill.com =20 Give up, answer man. . .give out, or give in, but give! Well -- I=92m off to find a newspaper picture of Newt to put at the bottom of my garbage can =96 seize ya=92 later, gentle reader.=20 <And he _did_ , too.>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:00:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:55:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:17:40 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science > >>I haven't been keeping up with the mail on Errol's list and I think the >>original question about the Catalina film 'UFO' analysis has got lost in >>all the quote attributes. >>Are you and John Powell are referring to the UFO film that after computer >>analysis was shown to be a Cessna aircraft? If so, this was documented in >>a program made for the first series of the "Arthur C. Clarke Mysterious >>World" series. Yes, it was Catalina and was determined to be a Cessna.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Jan 97 13:53:48 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:58:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Date: 20-Jan-97 13:03:14 MsgID: 798-53563 ToID: 76710,234 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto >INTERNET:updates@globalserve.net >Subj: UFO UpDate: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: Std Receipt: No Part 1 of 1 Jorgen quoted Bob, I think; >impertinent of a child to lecture a grownup. Bob, is this how you see yourself? James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:52:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:02:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:49:45 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:31:49 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs ....snip.... >>>Except the question: "How do we presently study other species?" We >>>snatch a few samples from the field, open 'em up and see how they tick. >>JC: Or tag them and track them? Hmmn, then _if_ we found that one case, >>we might also have a philosophical problem (amongst others) here. :-) >>Some, of what appear to you to be "way-out" claims, might take on new >>meaning. This is purely philosophically speaking of course. >Of course I think most of the claims are "way out" because of the >combination of two important factors: 1) There's no objective evidence to >support them having actually occurred, and; 2) They haven't happenned to _me_. >I'm completely open to the possibility that either or both of those factors >could radically change even by tomorrow. Who knows? >Sure, we tag and track species sometimes. But eventually, we snatch one or >two and open 'em up...<grin> >>>I personally think we should be trying to shoot down UFOs every chance >>>we get so we can open 'em up and see how they tick. >>JC: With the technology being described in cases like the 1989/90 Belgium >>sightings (police version), you better hope you miss. :-) >Why!? You put a couple of Stingers up their exhaust pipes and they won't >be so prone to zip-zapping around our atmosphere (<grin>), plus we'd get >that chance to dissect one or two of them. JC: Or up their nostrils, but for those that might take you seriously: a) The more familiar one becomes with the many reports over the years, one realizes this is not "Independence Day." b) Assuming they let you see them. If it were that easy, then we've probably done it already. We've had a lot of years to shoot at them. Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Jan 97 18:29:34 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:59:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life Peregrine, Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to the List. After a short respite visiting my old Mum in K-- - Whoops! Sorry - I mean spending some days intensively debriefing one of our longest-serving agents at a safe house believed to be only a few miles from RAF Manston somewhere in the south east of England... > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 19:56:08 -0600 (CST) > From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> > Hopefully this time he'll be serious about a rebuttal and not as > flippant as he was last time. It's hard to keep a straight face. Surely one who seriously presents the thickness of a book's pages as evidence of counter-intelligence, secret subsidies, disinformation campaigns and the author's clandestine military service is a sail or two short of the full ship. As sad as Bob Shell's notion that CNN drop an item from the 3am news because they've been got at by the gov't, or someone else's amazement that Kodak works for Uncle Sam. I mean, it's pretty weird they hired Boeing to build aircaft, too, isn't it? Golly-gee, Billy-Bub, do you think IBM makes computers for them? And naturally I am a paedophile child murderer because I think gun controls don't work. And so on. If you really expect me not to laugh I shall suspect you of having a sense of humor. > Brookesmith doesn't present himself as a skeptic or debunker, but he > sure as hell is, and after that raised my eyebrow, I noticed numerous > glaring problems. He's trying to lure in the fence-sitters and then > cram disinformation down their throats. Gad, the fellow's a bounder, sir, and be sure to keep your daughters a safe distance from the slithy tove. Perhaps no one has told the doughty Yeoman Brian, scourge of Black Ops everywhere, that authors rarely write blurbs. And how unscrupulous for a skeptic to attempt to persuade the undecided of the virtues of his perspective. No True Believer would stoop so low. [It's easier ignore the skeptics altogether, eh, Mr Berliner, and take your money from Mr Rockefeller who, we all know, is a monstrous agent of the New World Order... er... um... conspiracy theories get a bit tangled here - half a mo - Mmmmmmmmm.] Perhaps I should stop thanking people who point out errors in my captions (for the gesture is a sure sign of an unprincipled debunker, and unspeakable depths of deviousness in the fungus-like plot of disinformation). I have also noticed how politicians never try to convince anyone to vote for them, and men never try to charm women off their feet. This explains why only a few election candidates actually get elected, I expect (and definitely explains why so few men, as opposed to gentlemen, get laid). I confess (I do, really) that I cannot suppress my awe at the meticulous detail and scrupulous fact-checking that has gone into the research here: > Brookesmith pretends to be "long interested in the paranormal", > which is crap. I guess 17 years of publishing stuff about the paranormal isn't long, given that nothing ever changes in this whimsical field. And Zeiler's sudden access to all my filthy secrets doubtless explains why he still hasn't bothered to e-mail me a suitable form of release document for his FOIA requests. > I'll be sure to post examples [of "shifty spookiness", presumably--PB] > with excruciating detail, and Brookesmith will have the right to > defend himself. Splutter, sob. I can barely express my gratitude at your condescension. Isn't confessing to being a MOSSAD agent enough for you people? You want me to admit I really work for Satan? Here's a clue. You put yourself in mortal danger every time you surf the Web, you know. The Web is a soul-control device cooked up by our boys in Rome (guess where) and our boys in Langley and Tel Aviv... W is letter 23 of the alphabet, right? WWW = 23 23 23 or 2x3, 2x3, 2x3 or -- Aaaaiiiiieeeee! -- 666!! Keep this to yourself, though, because you could only have got it from an Insider. Remember the wisom of the irreplaceable ~Pat~: > 1. UFO encounters are true. > 2. Coverups are speculation. > 3. All is not Roswell. best wishes P. Mendoza Broadsmiles (not Brian Zeigler's real name) PS: Andy, Jerry, Steven J., Greg, and the rest of you: meet me under the hollow oak tree on Rendlesham Common at midnight for further instructions and a bonus. Reverse-engineered courtesy bus available. PPS: Thanks to John Koopmans for getting to Fort before me. PPPS: Yeah, I know, alien writing, rebuttal of Oberg, etc... I'll get there. Once more, thanks for the patience.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:52:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:03:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:49:22 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:33:38 -0800 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>, updates@globalserve.net >>From: johnb@island.net (John Bindernagel) >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs John Powell wrote: >I have a non-answer answer to my question above. I'd prefer to do a >first-pass pre-screen of the unexplained data and separate out _all_ the >single-witness cases. Then, with the multi-witness case dataset look for >trends/patterns. If any trends/patterns are found (whatever they might be) >then look for those in the single-witness case dataset. If we get matches >_then_ we can start arguing the details. JC: Yes. This is basically what I was trying to say when I said if we found _1_ case that satisfied you, we might might find ourselves looking back at the "dust on some of those other rocks we put aside." Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Jan 97 13:53:46 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:56:56 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 12:14:15 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Pat Wrote; >One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions. When I wrote, 'but proposed little that could be tested', I think you misunderstood. Rather than read about topographical (read: mathematically theoretical) constructs that can become resonating circuits (LC; from Inductor(L)/Capacitor(C)), and _may_ produce field structures (the 'field' being a set of abstracted point sources to provide a model of potentials in _any_ sphere of science), I was actually asking for a test to prove the existence of such. Proving the hypothesis with exemplars, so to speak. Apologies for the brackets, but I have an aversion to the way some things sound without explanations. Bull**it baffles brains, you know? <wink> >*IF* they are getting "reduced weight" as advertised Advertised? Foundations of Physics, 6:4, 1993 Phys. Rev D, 43:457, 1991 Phys. Rev B, 46:5489, 1992 Phys. Rev D, 15:2047, 1977 That's the basis, although I'm not quoting most of the papers I have here. If you take a look, there is mention of a many particle system, which could match yours. >then >the reason will be found to be vector excitation and that >is induced gravitational effect, and NOT sheilding. Perhaps, but then you're supplying answers before the tests have been completed. I recall a Philip Klag...no, Klash....Erm, Klass? Doing the same closed minded rubbishing of stuff before it became public domain. >There is a vast difference in 'saying' and knowing. And you 'know', right? So why is your stuff on a web page and not Phys Rev? >> Is that person you see when you look at 'yourself' in a mirror, you? The point is... Suppositions are a virtual image of the mind. Reality cannot change at all for it is real. The mind, on the other hand, does change. << Pat, weasel words. What I see in the mirror is a collection of interpreted images that may or may not be me. However, it's useful for squeezing zits and trimming the beard. James D,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Alfred's Odd Ode #80 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:12:09 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:06:35 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #80 Apology to MW #80 (For January 22, 1997)=20 You say it can=92t happen in this nation of nations. You say *they* don=92t covet, or hide. You say the gub-mint is forthcoming; You say there=92s no mystery inside. Well =96 down here in the bible belt They _discourage_ *their* hell. It=92s hard to find a =91dirty=92 picture; It=92s hard to find, or hear, Art Bell. And some book stores ban fringe books -- Local business a Christian Mafia. Just a few years ago you couldn=92t buy beer, "Don=92t let massive drunken driving curb or stop ya=92!" This place is capped off, shut down, and indentured. I wouldn=92t live here, but it=92s cheap. Ask _legitimate_ questions about the comet, Hale-Bopp. They don=92t know a thing, not a peep. They talk importance of the family; They talk aloud to every one! They talk again that it=92s *important*, But what they mean is thinking=92s done. They want to hear that it=92s all right They want their culture=92s healing. They want the *big stuff* taken care of; They don=92t feel elitist stealing.=20 They learn this in their education system, A system stiff, and reproductionist. A system paid for only grudgingly. A system =91safe=92, =91cause kept traditionalist. So with Newt, and our veterans -- CIA run amuck -- With all that is caught, and on view. . . Why can=92t you admit that a secret is lurking; A secret, not known, disrespects you.=20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com . . .Damned if I don=92t feel guilty when I use a paper towel, and rightfully so. There _are_ secret societies, Virginia! We=92ve turned our police force into one. Minority folks are another. There are more. They occur as you don=92t give them your attention, and too many of them are not *nice*.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:11:37 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:00:52 -0500 Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos Errol and all, It's no secret that most of us here on the list have seen the Santilli alien autopsy CAMERAMAN photos that have been floating around in cyberspace. I 'm surprised that there hasn't been any discussion about them here except for a short blurb by Bob Shell. I read in a post from Bob that this is the man who claimed to have filmed the alien autospy, but that he is not Jack Barnett. Maybe Bob would like to comment further about these photos. What is Ray's reaction to them being sent all over the internet? I'm also curious to learn if Bob has seen the actual video of the interview with this alleged cameraman. My observations... The man in the photos seems to be wearing glasses in the enhanced photo, but doesn't seen to be wearing any in the unehanced photo. I wonder...did he remove his glasses during the interview or am i wrong about the no glasses? It also looks to me like he has either a mole or some kind of growth on the right side of his face near the mouth. What is that? The man in the photo looks like he could be 80 to me. I think this might turn out to be the first REAL lead we've had on this controversial issue in a long time. I think that learning the identity of this alleged cameraman might possibly be our last chance to learn the truth and genesis of this film. What do you think? Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Project 1947 - Re: Surveillance Anomalies From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:11:12 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:07:41 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: Surveillance Anomalies Navy Letter: DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY NAVY SPACE COMMAND Dahlgren, VA 2248-5170 In Reply Refer To 5720 ser N172/186 Feb 22, 1990 [Addressee deleted] Dear Sir: This is in reply to your letter of 17 January 1990, which was forwarded from your original addressee, OPNAV. Naval Space Command has no records concerning Unidentified Flying Objects. The Naval Space Surveillance Center (NAVSPASUR) routinely tracks thousands of objects in space, anumber of which are identified only as "unidentified orbiting objects". A brochure and listing of NAVAPASUR's entire unknown data base for the period December 16 1989 to February 13, 1990 is enclosed. The fees associated with the processing of your request have been waived. If you have any questions or need additional information, you may write to Commanding Officer, Naval Space Surveillance Center, Dahlgren, Virginia 22448-5180. Sincerely, /s/ T. E. Edwards T. E. EDWARDS Management Support Divsion By direction of the Commander Encl: (1) NAVSPASUR Information Manual (2) Listing of Unidentified Orbiting Objects. Copy to: CNO (OP-09B30F) NAVSPASUR (Code 11) ________________________________________________________________________ Enclosed was a listing giving date, time, lat., long., right ascension, HT (NM) and receiving station. I doubt if this data would mean much to most people. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Incident at Exeter, Pt. 2 of 2 (Hynek) From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:53:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:05:25 -0500 Subject: Incident at Exeter, Pt. 2 of 2 (Hynek) As mentioned in part one, the following excerpt is taken from: Hynek, J. Allen . "The Hynek UFO Report" . paperback, pp 154-166 . Dell Publishing Co. 1977 : and also, material therein from Blue Book files. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Incident at Exeter" - continued (part 2 of 2) Dr. Hynek: It is interesting to note that Maj. Quintanilla had used the term "before a final evaluation of your sighting can be made," whereas the Pentagon had in fact already issued its evaluation (attributing the sighting to Operation Big Blast) some time before Quintanilla wrote his letter. Maj. Quintanilla received a prompt reply from Officers Bertrand and Hunt. Their letter of December 2, 1965, reads: "Dear Sir: We were very glad to get your letter during the third week in November, because as you might imagine, we have been the subject of considerable ridicule since the Pentagon released its "final evaluation" of our sighting of September 3, 1965. In other words, both Patrolman Hunt and myself saw this object at close range, checked it out with each other, confirmed and reconfirmed the fact that this was not any kind of conventional aircraft, that it was at an altitude of not more than a couple of hundred feet and went to considerable trouble to confirm that the weather was clear, there was no wind, no chance of weather inversion, and that what we were seeing was in no way a military or civilian craft. We entered this in a complete official police report as a supplement to the blotter of the morning of September 3rd (not September 2 as your letter indicates). Since our job depends on accuracy and the ability to tell the difference between fact and fiction, we were naturally disturbed by the Pentagon report issued which attributed the sighting to "multiple high-altitude objects in area" and "weather inversion." What is a little difficult to understand is the fact that your letter arrived considerably after the Pentagon release. Since your letter says that you are still in the process of making a final evaluation, it seems that there is an inconsistency here. Ordinarily, this would not be too important except for the fact that in a situation like this, we are naturally very reluctant to be considered irresponsible in our official report to the police station. One of us (Patrolman Bertrand) was in the Air Force for four years, engaged in refueling operations, with all kinds of military aircraft; it was impossible to mistake what we saw for any kind of military operation, regardless of altitude. It was also definitely not a helicopter or balloon. Immediately after the object disappeared, we did see what probably was a B-47 at high altitudes, but it bore no relation to the object that we saw. Another fact is that the time of our observation was nearly an hour after two A.M. which would eliminate the Air Force Operation Big Blast since as you say, this took place between midnight and 2 A.M. Norman Muscarello, who first reported this object before we went to the site, saw it somewhere in the vicinity of 2 A.M. but nearly an hour had passed before he got to the police station and we went out to the location with him. We would both appreciate it very much if you would help us eliminate the possible conclusion that some people have made in that we might have: (a) made up the story, (b) were incompetent observers. Anything that you could do along this line would be very much appreciated, and I am sure that you can understand the position we are in. We appreciate the problem that the Air Force must have with the number of irresponsible reports on this subject, and don't want to cause you unnecessary trouble. One the other hand, we think that you probably understand our position. Thanks very much for your interest. Sincerely, Patrolman Eugene Bertrand and Patrolman David Hunt Dr. Hynek: They received no reply to this letter. They wrote again on December 29: Dear Sir: Since we have not heard from you since our letter of December 2, we are writing this to request some kind of an answer since we are still upset about what happened after the Pentagon released its news that we had just seen stars or planets, or high-altitude air exercises. As we mentioned in our last letter to you, it could not have been the Operation Big Blast you mentioned since the time of our sighting was an hour after that exercise and it may not have even been the same date since you refer to our sighting as September 2. Our sighting was on September 3. In addition, as we mentioned, we are both familiar with all the B-47's and B-52's and helicopters and jet fighters which are going over this place all the time. On top of this, Patrolman Bertrand had four years of refueling experience in the Air Force and knows regular aircraft of all kinds. It is important to remember that this craft that we saw was not more than one hundred feet in the air and it was absolutely silent with no rush of air from jets or chopper blades whatever. And it did not have any wings or tail. It lit up the entire field, and two nearby houses turned completely red. It stopped, hovered, and turned on a dime. What bothers us most is that many people are thinking that we were either lying or not intelligent enough to tell the difference between what we saw and something ordinary. Three other people saw this same thing on September 3 and two of them appear to be in shock from it. This was absolutely not a case of mistaken identity. We both feel that it is very important for our jobs and our reputations to get some kind of letter from you to say that story put out by the Pentagon was not true; it could not possibly be because we were the people who saw this, not the Pentagon. Can you please let us hear from you as soon as possible? Signed, Patrolman Eugene Bertrand and Patrolman David Hunt Dr. Hynek: More than a month later, the patrolmen received the following response from the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force: Gentlemen: Based on additional information submitted to our UFO Investigation Officer, Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, we have been unable to identify the object that you observed on September 3, 1965. In nineteen years of investigating over ten thousand reports of unidentified flying objects, the evidence has proved almost conclusively that reported aerial phenomena have been either objects created or set aloft by men, generated by atmospheric conditions, or caused by celestial bodies or the residue of meteoric activity. Thank you for reporting your observation to the Air Force, and for your subsequent co-operation concerning the report. I regret any inconvenience you may have suffered as a result. Sincerely, John P. Spaulding Lt. Col, USAF Dr. Hynek: Whether this letter satisfied the patrolmen, I do not know. Between the lines, it still says "It can't be, therefore it isn't" and that therefore their sighting must undoubtedly have some natural explanation. At least, however, the patrolmen had the satisfaction of the final admission from the Pentagon that they had been unable to identify their sighting. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net P.S. To those who never read his book, author John Fuller came up with about 60 witnesses to low altitude sightings in the Exeter area in this general time period. Again, his book: Fuller, John G. "Incident at Exeter" . A Berkley Medallion Book . Pub. G.P. Putnam's Sons Distributed by Berkley Publishing Corporation . paperback 1/67
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Incident at Exeter, Pt. 1 of 2 (Hynek) From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:52:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:04:16 -0500 Subject: Incident at Exeter, Pt. 1 of 2 (Hynek) Hello out there, For those people that read the Oberg/Cooper series, I had mentioned that Dr. Hynek, the Air Force's number one civilian astronomical consultant, slowly turned from a debunker to a believer and cited some things that happened along the way to cause this. The following case, also located in Blue Book files, had to be one of the major precipitating factors. I had recently posted a brief summary of the case in a post to John Powell. Most researchers are quite familiar with it, but for those people out there not old enough to remember, but who are reading this mail and attempting to fathom where some of the researchers today are coming from, this was just one of many items that Dr. Hynek found it impossible to reconcile in his many years dealing with UFO reports. It sounds like science fiction, but it was on the police blotter and in Blue Book files. Remember, we only need one of these cases we are mentioning along the way to be the real thing for us to demonstrate the necessity for the varied research being performed today by various civilian groups. You may not agree with all their methods, but _someone_ has to examine this thing seriously. The scientific establishment has simply shaken its head and said; "We don't know what it was or if it was real." This did not help the two patrolmen who "experienced" and reported the following events. God knows we need more "scientists" taking it seriously. Excerpt below taken directly from: Hynek, J. Allen . "The Hynek UFO Report" . paperback, pp 154-166 . Dell Publishing Co. 1977 : which included material therein from Blue Book files. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The "Incident at Exeter" - September 3, 1965 * Dr. Hynek: "Incident" is hardly the term for this classic Close Encounter case which is known to virtually all who have followed the UFO phenomenon. This encounter at Exeter, New Hampshire gained national prominence, and caused both the original witnesses and the Air Force considerable embarrassment. Not only is this a fine example of a Close Encounter of the First Kind, but it is a showcase illustration of Blue Book negligence, put-down of witnesses, attempts to explain away the testimony of responsible witnesses with a parade of "official" explanations, and of capitulation on the part of the Pentagon which, months later, had to admit that the case should have been carried as "Unidentified." The file folders in Blue Book, however, still have the original evaluation of "Astro-Stars/Planets" and "Aircraft for Operation Big Blast." (The astronomical evaluation is completely untenable and Operation Big Blast terminated more than an hour before the incident at Exeter began, according to official records.) The story of this case is well documented in John Fuller's book "The Incident at Exeter," and in an excellent report by Raymond Fowler and his associates, who did a far better job investigating the case than did Blue Book. I am indebted to Mr. Fowler for the excerpts from his report that follow. Blue Book files on this case are fairly extensive in themselves although they draw heavily on the report by Mr. Fowler. Blue Book's first mention of the incident at Exeter is dated October 15, 1965, and comes in the form of a request from the Headquarters of the 817th Air Division (SAC) at Pease AFB, New Hampshire. Written by their Director of Information for the Commander, and addressed to the Information Officer at Wright-Patterson AFB, it reads: . . . There have been an unusually high number of reported sightings of unidentified flying objects in the Pease AFB, New Hampshire, area which have been the subject of much discussion and numerous newspaper, radio and television reports. Many of these sightings have been reported to this base and your records will show that we have performed thorough investigations of the . . . Several members of this command have actually been called to view UFOs by sincere and sober citizens but as yet, we have always been too late or "unlucky." The most interesting sighting, in the nearby town of Exeter, aroused special interest as two policemen saw the object at very close range. . . This office has, of course, not commented on sightings reported to the Air Force other than to say that they have been or are being investigated, that the reports will be sent to your organization, that further releases will be made from the Public Information Office of the Secretary of the Air Force, etc. The fact that we cannot comment on the investigations has led to somewhat alarming suspicion of Air Force motives and interest in this area, the most popular belief being that "...the Air Force won't release the truth because if the truth were known, everyone would be panicked." I have attempted to counter this by explaining the USAF's interest in this matter every time I speak to the press or private citizens about this matter. . . Still, however, an alarming number of people remain unconvinced {!}. Many members of the two nearby Military Affairs committees and key citizens from surrounding towns and cities have inquired concerning the possibility of an Air Force speaker on this subject. Do you operate a speaker's bureau or would you be able to suggest where I might be able to obtain knowledge of an Air Force spokesman who could explain the Air Force UFO program and what happens to reports sent to your organization? If speakers from your organization are available, it might be possible for us to arrange transportation via Pease Base C-47, Billeting poses no problem. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. For the Commander A.B.B., 1st Lt. USAF Director of Information Dr. Hynek: The initial report which came in from Pease AFB on September 15, 1965, was the soul of brevity. "The following report of an unidentified object is hereby submitted in accordance with AFR-200-2. A) Description of Object 1) round 2) baseball 3) bright red 4) five red lights in a row 5) lights were close together and moved as one object 6) none 7) none 8) none 9) extremely bright red B) Description of Course of Object 1) visual sighting 2) object was at an altitude of approximately 100 feet and moved in an arc of 135 degrees 3) object disappeared at an altitude of approximately one hundred feet on a magnetic heading of approximately 160 degrees 4) the object was erratic in movement and would disappear behind houses and building in the area. It would then appear at a position other than where it disappeared. When in view, it would act as a floating leaf. 5) object departed on a heading of 160 degrees and was observed until it disappeared in the distance 6) one hour C) Manner of Observation 1) ground-visual 2) none 3) N/A D) Time and Date of Sighting 1) 3/9/0600 Z 2) night E) Location of Observer 1) 3 nautical miles SW of Exeter in New Hampshire F) Identifying Information of Observer 1) civilian, Norman J. Muscarello, age 18.... appears to be reliable. 2) civilian, Eugene F. Bertrand, Jr., age 30, Exeter Police Department, Exeter, New Hampshire, patrolman, reliable 3) civilian, David R. Hunt, age 28, Exeter Police Department, Exeter, New Hampshire, patrolman, reliable G) Weather and Winds 1) weather was clear with no known weather phenomena. There was a five-degree inversion from surface to 5,000'. 2) winds at Pease AFB (the winds were uniformly from the west, low velocity near the surface to quite high above 10,000') 3) clear (unlimited) 4) 30 nautical miles 5) None 6) None H) None I) None J) None K) Major David H. Griffin, Base Disaster Control Officer, Command pilot 1) at this time I have been unable to arrive at a probably cause of this sighting. The three observers seem to be stable, reliable persons, especially the two patrolmen. I viewed the area of the sighting and found nothing in the area that could be the probable cause. Pease AFB had five B-47 aircraft flying in the area during this period but I do not believe that they had any connection with this sighting. Dr. Hynek: The report in Blue Book continues with the statements of the three witnesses involved. The first, from Norman Muscarello, follows: I, Norman J. Muscarello, was hitchhiking on Rt. 150, three miles south of Exeter, New Hampshire, at 0200 hours on the 3rd of September. A group of five bright red lights appeared over a house about a hundred feet from where I was standing. The lights were in a line at about a sixty-degree angle. They were so bright, they lighted up the area. The lights then moved out over a large field and acted at times like a floating leaf. They would go down behind the trees, behind a house and then reappear. They always moved in the same sixty-degree angle. Only one light would be on at a time. They were pulsating: one, two, three, four, five, four, three, two, one. They were so bright I could not distinguish a form to the object. I watched these lights for about fifteen minutes and they finally disappeared behind some trees and seemed to go into a field. At one time while I was watching them, they seemed to come so close I jumped into a ditch to keep from being hit. After the lights went into a field, I caught a ride to the Exeter Police Station and reported what I had seen. signed, Norman J. Muscarello Dr. Hynek: The statement from the first patrolman, who after being called to the scene also witnessed the UFO: I, Eugene F. Bertrand, Jr., was cruising on the morning of the 3rd of September at 0100 on Rt. 108 bypass near Exeter, New Hampshire. I noticed an automobile parked on the side of the road and stopped to investigate. I found a woman in the car who stated she was too upset to drive. She stated that a light had been following her car and had stopped over her car. I stayed with her about fifteen minutes but was unable to see anything. I departed and reported back to Exeter Police Station where I found Norman Muscarello. He related his story of seeing some bright red lights in the field. After taking him back to where he stated that he had seen the lights. When we had gone about fifty feet, a group of five bright red lights came from behind a group of trees near us. They were extremely bright and flashed on one at a time. The lights started to move around over the field. At one time, they came so close I fell to the ground and started to draw my gun. The lights were so bright, I was unable to make out any form. There was no sound or vibration but the farm animals were upset in the area and were making a lot of noise. When the lights started coming near us again, Mr. Muscarello and I ran to the car. I radioed Patrolman David Hunt who arrived in a few minutes. He also observed the lights which were still over the field but not as close as before. The lights moved out across the field at an estimated altitude of one hundred feet, and finally disappeared in the distance at the same altitude. The lights were always in line at about a sixty-degree angle. When the object moved, the lower lights were always forward of the others. signed, Eugene F. Bertrand, Patrolman Dr. Hynek: From the third witness: I, David R. Hunt, at about 0255 on the morning of the 3rd of September, received a call from Patrolman Bertrand to report to an area about three miles southwest of Exeter, New Hampshire. Upon arriving at the scene, I observed a group of bright red lights flashing in sequence. They appeared to be about one half mile over a field to the southeast. After observing the lights for a short period of time, they moved off in a southeasterly direction and disappeared in the distance. The lights appeared to remain at the same altitude which I estimate to be about one hundred feet. signed, David R. Hunt, Patrolman Dr. Hynek: Blue Book's way of dealing with these witnesses' reports was to make every effort to locate some type of aircraft operation in the area in question; none was successful. A news clip from the Amesbury News, Massachusetts, stated that the UFO was identified as an "ad gimmick"; but Ray Fowler checked with the Skylight Aerial Advertising Company and was advised that their aircraft was _not_ flying on the night of September 3. He was also informed that the company aircraft rarely flew into southern New Hampshire, and when it did, it was usually in the Salem and Manchester areas, miles away from Exeter. Furthermore, he learned that the "Skylight" aircraft does not carry red flashing lights; it carries a rectangular sign with white flashing lights. Yet the manager of the advertising company had stated to the Amesbury News that "perhaps some UFOs reported in the New Hampshire area could have been their aircraft." Unfortunately, the press anxiously latched on to this bit of irrelevant information to "explain" the Exeter case. The two simultaneous investigations of this case are an interesting study in contrasts. The Air Force records are at best sketchy, and focus essentially on attempts at locating existing aircraft in the area; as usual, Blue Book started out its investigation with a negative premise. On the other hand, Raymond Fowler and his associates made an exhaustive examination of the case, keeping their minds open at all times. Their final reports were duly submitted to Blue Book. The following is excerpted from Fowler's report, which supplements Muscarello's statement to the Air Force investigator: . . . Muscarello reported the incident to Desk Officer Reginald Towland at about 1:45 A.M. EDT. Side view and angle view seen. He was hit with fear and hardly able to talk. A radio call was made to Officer Bertrand asking him to return to the station, pick up Muscarello, and investigate at the scene of the sighting which he did. Upon arriving at the Carl Dining field, the object was nowhere to be seen. After waiting and looking from the cruiser for several minutes, Bertrand radioed headquarters that there was nothing there and that the boy must have been imagining things. It was then suggested that he examine the field before returning, so Bertrand and Muscarello advanced into the field. As the police officer played his flashlight beam back and forth over the field, Muscarello sighted the object rising slowly from behind some nearby trees and shouted. Bertrand swung around and saw a large dark object carrying a straight row of four extraordinarily bright, red, pulsating lights coming into the field at treetop level. It swung around toward them and just clearing a sixty-to seventy-foot tree and seemingly only one hundred feet away from them. Instinctively, Officer Bertrand drew his service revolver (he stated that Muscarello shouted, "Shoot it!"), but thinking this unwise, replaced it and yelled to Muscarello to take cover in the cruiser. He told me (Fowler) that he was afraid that they both would be burnt by the blinding lights closing in on them. They ran to the cruiser where Bertrand immediately put in a radio call to headquarters for assistance. Officer Hunt arrived within minutes, and the trio observed the object move away over and below the tree line. Dr. Hynek: Now let us return to the Blue Book coverage for a look at an interesting exchange of letters between the then Major Quintanilla and the police officers involved. Quintanilla states: Our investigations and evaluation of the sighting indicates a possible association with the Air Force operation "Big Blast." In addition to aircraft from this operation, there were five (5) B-47 aircraft flying in the area during this period. Before final evaluation of your sighting can be made, it is essential for us to know if either of you witnessed any aircraft in the area during this time period, either independently or in connection with the observed object. Since there were many aircraft in the area, at he time, and there were no reports of unidentified objects from personnel engaged in this air operation, we might then assume that the objects observed between midnight and two A.M. might be associated with this military air operation. If, however, these aircraft were noted by either of you, this would tend to eliminate this air operation as a possible explanation for the objects observed. Signed, Hector Quintanilla, Jr. Major, USAF, Chief, Project Blue Book Exeter sightings: continued in part two * Fuller, John G. "Incident at Exeter" . A Berkley Medallion Book . Pub. G.P. Putnam's Sons Distributed by Berkley Publishing Corporation . 1/67 Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Obsolescence? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:19:34 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:49:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Obsolescence? Bob Shell said; >Of the UFO investigators, I think Jacques Vallee has come closest to >figuring out what is going on. Standing Ovation! :) ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Philadelphia 'incident' From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:18:05 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:59:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Philadelphia 'incident' > From: "Art & Peg Kopp" <artnpeg@worldnet.att.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:06:47 -0500 > Subject: Philadelphia incident > I am trying to find information about an incident that supposedly > took place in Philadelphia, PA, perhaps in the 1950's, where a navy > ship and crew were subjected to an experiment like in Star Trek > wherein humans are transported and beamed elsewhere. > Is there any documentation of this incident available on the > internet? > Peggy Kopp Try a search for "philadelphia experiment" and you will get about 600 references (I used AltaVista). Other sources: "The Philadelphia Experiment:Project Invisibility", a book by William L. Moore and Charles Berlitz "The Philadelphia Experiment", a video by A. Bielik John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Jan 97 12:41:02 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:53:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Date: 21 Jan 97 13:53:48 EST >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Date: 20-Jan-97 13:03:14 MsgID: 798-53563 ToID: 76710,234 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto >INTERNET:updates@globalserve.net >Subj: UFO UpDate: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: Std Receipt: No Part 1 of 1 >Jorgen quoted Bob, I think; >impertinent of a child to lecture a grownup. >Bob, is this how you see yourself? >James D, James, I just appended the definition of impertenent from my computer's dictionary, since it seemed from Jorgen's writing that he was not a native English speaker. No, I did not intend any one part of that definition to be taken out of context. Actually, I was thinking of the "not pertinent" part of the definition mostly. No, I don't see myself as a grownup and Jorgen as a child. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Joshua Shapiro's trip to Brazil From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:58:47 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:58:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Joshua Shapiro's trip to Brazil UFO UpDates - Toronto writes: > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:53:11 -0600 (CST) > From: "Richard L. Shapiro" <rshapiro@interaccess.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Joining your UFO list > some notes from my trip to Brasil What delightful nonsense! I loved reading this stuff on my lunch hour! > they expect 1997 to see 3-4 the number of sightings as the previous 15 > months ... also that some revelation about UFOs is coming up Sounds like a repeat of the great Israeli predictions. > he said the beings from Varginha are in a university in Campinhas near Sao > Paulo and that US people were on the scene from the beginning > also the beings captured (4 beings, 3 alive and one was dead, shot by a > military person) are more animals ... possibly servants to the Alphas or > what we call the Greys Incredible! Literally! > a person driving on the highway saw the ship as it was crashing ... > it had a hole in it and there was smoke coming from it ... > the area of the crash is totally clean ... he believes these beings > ejected before the crash ... there is some grass in this region which is > very green compared to the other crash ... > there were UFO sightings in Varginha prior to the crash Great stuff! > Near Alto Paraiso ... Pedro Cunha, a Brasilian researcher and I spoke with > a local doctor about a girl he treated ... she had geometric slashed lines > all at the same degree of depth all over her body from a UFO contact ... > these lines disappeared shortly there after ... in this case it appeared > some UFO beings were protecting some area full of minerals ... they tried > to go back since they were very religious (catholic) and exercise these > beings but it didn't work ... Uh ... exercise or exorcise? > keep up the good work Yes, please! -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) etniversity of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows | rshapiro |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Jan 97 12:41:04 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:51:49 -0500 Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:11:37 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos Dear Bill, I was also surprised there was not more chatter about the images. Perhaps it is only because the most vocal people are all out in Nevada worshiping at the feet of the "space brothers" gurus, and getting their "weirdness fix". I was shown the video of "Jack" in Ray's office in London back in September. These images appear to be frame grabs from that same video, portions of which were licensed for use in a Japanese TV show. "Jack" is reading the questions, prepared by Bob Kiviat, from the papers he is holding. He apparently needs his glasses to read, and so has them on for some of the video, and off for other parts. He speaks directly and with apparent sincerity directly into the camera when responding to the questions. I noticed no "growth" on his face, and don't see any in these images. His movements and his voice could well be those of a man of 80, but I'm no expert on that. The man in the film is one of three things to my mind. He is 1/ an actor hired to portray the cameraman, or 2/ the real cameraman, or 3/ an imposter who somehow came into possession of the film and decided to pass himself off as the cameraman. I have no idea which is true. Ray is not happy that these photos are on the net, and has said he will assert his copyright if anyone attempts to put them into print. Bob Kiviat has the exclusive rights to the video for the USA, and as far as I know is still hoping to use it in a future follow-up program. Ray has promised me a first generation VHS dubb of the video for my own research. If this comes in any time soon, I want to make my own frame grabs. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Robotic Helicopter May Offer New Option for Public From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:26:47 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:56:12 -0500 Subject: Robotic Helicopter May Offer New Option for Public Dwayne Brown/Don Nolan-Proxmire Headquarters, Washington, DC January 22, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1726/1983) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Nicole Forest Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA (Phone: 757/864-5036) RELEASE: 97-14 ROBOTIC HELICOPTER MAY OFFER NEW OPTION FOR PUBLIC SAFETY NASA and the U.S. Army have developed a remote-controlled helicopter that could be used for a wide range of tasks, including precision crop spraying, border patrol, hazardous spill inspection, fire surveillance, crowd security and emergency medical delivery. Called the Free Flight Rotorcraft Research Vehicle (FFRRV), the robotic helicopter can carry a movie camera, a still camera, video downlinks, night vision or infrared cameras. Artificial intelligence techniques keep the chopper stable in flight and allow it to be remotely controlled from the ground. "An autonomous helicopter could help perform all of these jobs better, more quickly, at a lower cost while not exposing any humans to potentially dangerous situations," said Todd Hodges, an Army employee at NASA's Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA, and manager of the helicopter project. The helicopter contains adaptive electronic flight control systems that incorporate artificial intelligence techniques, small light-weight sophisticated sensors, and advanced telepresence-telerobotics systems. According to Hodges, the robotic helicopters also could be used for pollution monitoring, law enforcement, bridge and building construction inspection, crop and forest monitoring, mine clearing and other public security tasks. "It could even be used as a 'carrier pigeon' shuttling supplies and so forth between military locations," said Hodges. "The potential applications are pretty wide-ranging." The project initially set out to develop a tool for testing flight dynamics. Hodges and his team were tasked to develop a suitcase-portable version, including a small helicopter and a ground control station comprised of a moving map and video monitor that could be set up in 20 minutes. The prototype helicopters are powered by a modified gasoline engine and are about six feet long, including the rotor diameter. They can fly at speeds up to 60 mph. Hodges said inquiries about the technology have come in from various government agencies, the film industry, as well as power and pipeline companies and local fire departments. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:59:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:54:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' Philip Mantle asks; >Does this mean you will not be reviewing the book ? No, it means I review the reviewers. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:16:23 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:01:14 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:00:52 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' - Pe > >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > I don't know why so many people make so much out of Persinger's work, its > very tentative and far from complete. There's positively a magnetic field > association with UFOs and there's positively a relationship between eologic > activity and subsequent UFO sightings. These are interesting but they > really don't prove anything yet. That's true, although if you saw the Discovery Channel's program which highlighted Persinger's work (and any other program which featured him), it was implied that this was the best theory since sliced bread (pardon the metaphor). Further, Persinger isn't refining his theory at all; he's just going further and further afield and no longer even citing any criticisms of the TST. Finally, Persinger seems convinced that the EM fields *are* the explanation for UFOs. So, the reason skeptics are excited about Persinger's work is that it's a way to explain the bizarre aspects of UFO reports (and all other Forteana) without invoking aliens or metaphysics. The reason ufologists are getting excited is because Persinger's work is getting so much attention despite its weaknesses. It's like the discovery that garlic has *something* to do with the reduction in the numbers of cancer cells in the body. Does that mean we should abandon all other leads or studies unrelated to garlic? No; we file it and devote some energy to investigating it, but remember the limitations of research. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:21:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:02:57 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again John Powell wrote (about examining letters related to the "Linda" case): > If it doesn't have a letterhead look for the watermark. You can get a > reference on watermarks at the library. This is probably a real longshot > but possibly the watermark (the printer) could be traced to a gov't agency > (among others). Good idea. I may not be able to follow through on that right now, but I see what you mean. > > >> Look for information in the letters that _post-dates_ any other > information. Would you explain this a little more? [part of john's answer snipped] >Its possible that the > letters may contain a 'slip,' a mistake that would not have been noticed at > the time but may be noticed now that the information flow is old and mostly > stopped. Maybe something mentioned in the letters that became a lead for > other information, maybe something mentioned that was 'out of sequence.' > Does that make sense? Makes perfect sense. I haven't found anything like that, though. >a handwriting analysis might show that different letters were > from possibly the same author although with such a small sample that would > only be highly circumstantial at best. Right, examining the letters can't prove anything for sure. There's very little handwriting involved, almost none. But the letters allegedly from the several parties do show consistencies in spelling, formatting, punctuation, grammar, diction, tone....that is, consistencies within each writer's letters, and marked differences between them. And there's quite a lot of material. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:50:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:04:40 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Gravity Shield Effect Confirmed!'? >Pat Wrote; >>One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions. >When I wrote, 'but proposed little that could be tested', I think you >misunderstood. Actually, there is some 'testing' going on. >Rather than read about topographical (read: mathematically theoretical) >constructs that can become resonating circuits (LC; from >Inductor(L)/Capacitor(C)), and _may_ produce field structures (the 'field' >being >a set of abstracted point sources to provide a model of potentials in _any_ >sphere of science), I was actually asking for a test to prove the >existence of >such. Then do it. No one is stopping you. >Proving the hypothesis with exemplars, so to speak. Again: One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions. >Apologies for the brackets, but I have an aversion to the way some things >sound >without explanations. Bull**it baffles brains, you know? <wink> I prefer brilliance. >>*IF* they are getting "reduced weight" as advertised > >Advertised? > >Foundations of Physics, 6:4, 1993 >Phys. Rev D, 43:457, 1991 >Phys. Rev B, 46:5489, 1992 >Phys. Rev D, 15:2047, 1977 Yes, Advertised! advertising; advertises 1 : call public attention to >That's the basis, although I'm not quoting most of the papers I have here. > >If you take a look, there is mention of a many particle system, which could >match yours. Fine. So, you are saying I've reinvented the wheel? True! Newton invented it first. >>then >>the reason will be found to be vector excitation and that >>is induced gravitational effect, and NOT sheilding. >Perhaps, but then you're supplying answers before the tests have been >completed. Oh heck... Did I do that? Darn, all that stuff Einstein came up with giving answers before testing was possible needs to be looked into. Darn that Albert, he should have known better. >I recall a Philip Klag...no, Klash....Erm, Klass? Doing the same closed >minded >rubbishing of stuff before it became public domain. Big difference there, James. Klass is a debunker, I am a theorist and what I have produced out of theory is is new to the world. Debunk it if you wish, I don't care. >>There is a vast difference in 'saying' and knowing. >And you 'know', right? Yes, I do. >So why is your stuff on a web page and not Phys Rev? Because I am independent. I pioneer new ideas and I don't need any establishment circle jerks to tell me if I'm ok or not. And... I am getting far more readers. You would be surprised at who is looking. >>> Is that person you see when you look at 'yourself' in > a mirror, you? The point is... Suppositions are a virtual > image of the mind. Reality cannot change at all for it > is real. The mind, on the other hand, does change. << > Pat, weasel words. James, True words. > What I see in the mirror is a collection of >interpreted >images that may or may not be me. However, it's useful for squeezing zits >and >trimming the beard. Zits? :-D ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://pwp.value.net/ufomus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:25:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:47:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:52:39 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs > >>>>I personally think we should be trying to shoot down UFOs every chance >>>>we get so we can open 'em up and see how they tick. >>>JC: With the technology being described in cases like the 1989/90 Belgium >>>sightings (police version), you better hope you miss. :-) >>Why!? You put a couple of Stingers up their exhaust pipes and they won't >>be so prone to zip-zapping around our atmosphere (<grin>), plus we'd get >>that chance to dissect one or two of them. >JC: Or up their nostrils, but for those that might take you seriously: >a) The more familiar one becomes with the many reports over the years, >one realizes this is not "Independence Day." b) Assuming they let >you see them. If it were that easy, then we've probably done it >already. We've had a lot of years to shoot at them. If our gov't ever opens up all its files I'm sure we'll then be able to read about our past successes and failures at shooting at them <grin>. As far as I'm concerned if they're here then it is Independence Day, the 1,000-year long version instead of the 2-hour movie version.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Obsolescence? From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:25:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:46:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Obsolescence? >Date: 20 Jan 97 10:24:01 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Obsolescence? >The idea that what is happening is visits from ETs has always >seemed to me to be overly simplistic, and not a good reason >for the level of secrecy involved in the coverup. Long before the so-called Information Age information was still the most valuable commodity around. If, for example, Roswell was a crashed alien craft then the best reason for keeping it secret, then and still now, is so we could keep it. We can probably all agree that the ETH is not a national issue but a planetary issue. The only way to keep such physical evidence (for ourselves) is to keep it secret.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:31:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:45:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Date: 20 Jan 97 20:08:28 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:07:10 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >>Thank you Bob! >>Sorry to piss you off, but it did the trick. >>Jorgen / WUFOC >You don't have to get me mad to get answers. Just ask them politely and >directly, and if I know the answer and am free to give it to you I will. >Bob Hi Bob. I thought I did. maybe it was the nature of the questions that ticked you off. Here is some polite questions: f you recieved $2000 by Santili for expences - doesn't that make you disqualified to be neutral? And can you, please, tell us what Hesemann and Mantle has recieved (if any) for their "support"? (rumours of Santili fixing up the house for Philip Mantle as payment...) I hope these tough questions didn't get you mad. Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:25:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:47:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:52:46 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>I have a non-answer answer to my question above. I'd prefer to do a >>first-pass pre-screen of the unexplained data and separate out _all_ the >>single-witness cases. Then, with the multi-witness case dataset look for >>trends/patterns. If any trends/patterns are found (whatever they might be) >>then look for those in the single-witness case dataset. If we get matches >>_then_ we can start arguing the details. >JC: Yes. This is basically what I was trying to say when I said if we >found _1_ case that satisfied you, we might might find ourselves looking >back at the "dust on some of those other rocks we put aside." If knew you'd see it my way <GRIN>... My personal strict view of the data is only to ensure that we are able to develop trends/patterns that we can be very certain of. Afterwards, we can slowly add that less-than-perfect data to the mixture, more or less one case at a time.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 23:17:35 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:48:47 -0500 Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos Fortean Times received a notice from Orbital Media Ltd warning us that any unauthorised use of images of the 'cameraman' downloaded from the net or obtained elsewhere would result in legal action. I guess the letter went out to many publications. We will of course comply as we have no wish to flout the laws of copyright, but we deplore, generally, a situation in which data that can help clear up the complex mysteries that abound in ufology today are commercial property. It makes genuine research and progress towards answers and understanding very difficult. Bob Rickard - editor bob@forteana.win.uk.net FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "All men know the use of useful things; but they do not know the use of useless things." Chuang Tsu
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 'Nature', 1912, Letters to The Editor From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:06:59 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:44:18 -0500 Subject: 'Nature', 1912, Letters to The Editor About a month or so ago, a few of us discussed an old UFO-related case discussed in the British journal "Nature" in 1912. Here are six articles I found. Jan, please note the dates -- I believe one or two of the dates you mentioned may have been mistaken. Nature - April 18, 1912 page 168 Clouds and Shadows On the evening of Easter Monday I noticed in the western sky an effect which was unlike anything I had even seen before. The sun was just setting behind a great bank of clouds, the rest of the sky being fairly clear, except for a thin veil of alto-stratus (it was not very high), which was moving at a good rate from the north-west, and stretched across the whole sky. This stratus was scarcely noticeable at first, as the sun's rays shining through it produced a milky kind of light in the sky. In startling contrast to this there appeared about halfway between the horizon and the zenith, to the south-west, what looked like an extraordinary "cloud", which compelled attention. It was obvious, however, that this was no cloud, as it remained quite stationary, while the stratus (which I now observed) and also a few small lower clouds were driven quickly across the sky. I became greatly interested in the phenomenon and watched it closely for half an hour or more, and the impression I got was that the apparent cloud was really a heavy shadow, cast upon the otherwise brightly illuminated stratus by some unseen object away in the west, which was intersepting the sun's rays. The "dark patch" vared in shape and size, expanding and contracting, but preserving on the whole shape somewhat like a fan, and keeping the same position in the sky. After a time I noticed an exactly similar effect growing into shape, halfway between the first one and the point where the sun had set, so that a line drawn through them from the sun would be at an angle of about 45 degrees with the horizon. I made notes and rough sketches at the time, and could give more complete details as to the conditions existing, and the varying shapes and positions of the dark "shadows". It may be that this effect is not common, and is easily accounted for; but although I have studied the skies for many years I have never seen anything like it, and I feel confident that it must have been, at any rate, unusual. While freely confessing ignorance of any scientific knowledge on such matters, I should be very glad to be enlightened as to the explanation of the phenomenon, and also to hear whether anyone else noticed the occurrence. Chas. Tilden Smith "Chisbury", Little Bedwyn, Wilts, April 15. ______________________________________ Nature - May 9, 1912 page 244 Clouds and Shadows In a letter to NATURE (April 18) Mr. Chas. Tilden Smith directs attention to a peculiar shadow he noticed in the western sky last Easter Monday after sunset, and which he no doubt correctly attributed to "some unseen object intercepting the sun's rays", and so casting a shadow on the high and still directly illuminated stratus he mentions. Such shadows are by no means uncommon in lower latitudes, and are certainly caused either by clouds, especially the towering columnar cumuli (so common in the Caribbean Sea) or by mountains. For many years past the writer has been collecting data regarding such shadows and working out the position, size, and shape of the objects causing them. He has succeeded in (a) predicting correctly the form, position, and duration of the shadows caused by mountains [emphasis] for a sunset viewed from a known position (supposing that clouds did not interfere), e.g. from a ship to the east of Cuba, in which case it was possible to assign some of the observed shadows to definite peaks; and (b) he has suceeded in (conversely) deducing from the observed positions and forms of these shadows the general configuration of the mountain ranges which cused them - e.g. off the eastern coast of Brazil. Such shadows to be seen well require (1) a clear, lower atmosphere, and (2) a reflecting layer at a considerable height - e.g. six miles. The writer hopes to be able before long to publish these and many other observations and deductions, together with the formulae necessary for the analysis of this part of sunset. T. C. Porter Upton, Slough, May 3. ___________________________________________ Nature - May 16, 1912 page 268 Clouds and Shadows In NATURE of April 18 Mr. Charles Tilden Smith described a cloudlike appearance which he considered was no cloud, as it remained quite stationary while stratus and small lower clouds were driven quickly across the sky. I think I can throw some light on the subject, as I observed a similar appearance both on April 5 and on April 8, the date of Mr. Smith's observation. On April 5 I was observing pilot balloons when my attention was directed to a cloud which formed in the east; it was a cloud with very soft edges whcih were constantly changing their shape and were frequently ripple-marked. I enclose a photograph of the cloud taken about 6 p.m. What chiefly attracted my attention was the fact that the cloud remained stationary, though it was obvious from the motion of the pilot balloons that there was a very strong wind in the upper air. The pilot balloon ascents at 5:27 p.m. and at 6:24 p.m. showed that at one kilometre above the surface the velocity was 20 meters per second or more, which is fairly high for such a low level; the velocity fell off a little at greater heights, but it was 15 metres per second or so at three kilometres. As a north-west wind, which was the direction on this day, never seems to decrease very materially below the level of the stratosphere, it is obvious that the cloud in question was remaining stationary, though it was floating in a strong wind; presumably the particles of which it ws composed were condensing on the windward side and evaporating on the leeward side of the cloud, as in cloud streamers seen round the peaks of mountains. That this was really the case I could not determine at the time, as I was taking obsevations of balloons, but on April 18 I noticed very similar clouds shortly before sunset, and by watching them carefully it was quite clear that in this case the above supposition was correct. There was a great develpment of these soft-edged clouds just before sunset; they were arranged more or less in parallel bands, with a vanishing point in the south-west; the particles of which they were composed were coming from the north-west at one time I noticed that the edges of one cloud broke up into ripple clouds which moved rapidly from the north-west until they reached another cloud into which they merged If Dr. W. N. Shaw's supposition is correct that changes of pressure in the lower layers of the atmosphere are caused very largely by changes which occur in the level just below the stratosphere it follows that a diminution of pressure at this level will cause a decrease of pressure through the whole of the underlying layers, and, as Dr. Shaw has pointed our, condensation and formaton of clouds may take place wherever there happens to be a damp layer, and we get, what is so often seen, the simultaneous formation of sheets of cloud at widely different levels. On April 5 there was great development of cloud at different layers at sunset. If at any particular layer condensation is almost taking place, any uplift of air will hasten it, and any wave motion that may exist will become visible by condensation in the wave crests. On April 5 the strong wind passing over the irregularities of the surface such as the South Downs in this neighbourhood, might have caused local uplifts of air which might have extended to considerable heights; thus at some particular layer forming where the air was rising and evaporating further to leeward, where the air was descending. Soft-edged clouds, formed in a somewhat similar way, may sometimes be seen covering the tops of the Downs and closely following their contours, giving the hills a strange appearance of increased height as recorded by Richard Jefferirs in "Wild Life in a Southern County". It is difficult to estimate the heights of the clouds seen on April 5 and 8, but I think, thought I am not quite sure, that I saw a pilot balloon projected on one of them when it was at a height of about three kilometres; if this were so, the clouds must have been at a greater height. Charles J. P. Cave Ditcham Park, Petersfield, May 5 __________________________________________ Nature - May 30, 1912 page 322 Clouds and Shadows Given a background of fine stratus, blue-black shadows are often thrown upon it, particularly by the setting sun from mountain peaks or the summits of masses of cumulus. On this coast such shadows attain a great length; there may be four or five ray-like shadows diverging from the sunset glow to the zenith, becoming broader as they rise. This seems quite simple, the shadows being cast by he reflected light of the glowing clouds in the west, not by the sun itself, of course; but what to me needs explanation is the reappearnce of the rays in the east. Opposite the sunset is a broad band of lilac-pink extending for 30 degrees or so towards the zenith, and upon this the dark bands reappear, converging and narrowing upon a point opposite the sunset. In some cases one can almost trace the shadow bands the whole way from the west over the zenith to their eastern focus. The appearance is very striking, but I have seen no description of it. Cyril Crossland Sudan Government, Red Sea Province, Office of the Marine Biologist, Dongonab, May 5. ________________________________ Nature - June 6, 1912 page 348-9 Clouds and Shadows The shadows to which Mr. Cyril Crossland refers in his letter to NATURE of May 30 have straight fairly well-defined edges, and are therefore certainly cast by the sun itself, which would be still visible to anyone in the high reflecting layer, whether to east or west of the observer. They are certainly not cast by light "reflected from the glowing clouds in the west", as Mr. Crossland thinks. The convergence of these rays towards the east [emphasis], which this present writer has often seen, is purely a perspective effect. The rays themselves are in reality practically parallel, but seem to converge to east and west just as the parallel track of a straight railway seems to converge in both directions to anyone stnding between the rails. The effect in the east soon after sunset is sometimes so striking that anyone might well believe that the sun had set there, were there no other circumstances to judge by. T. C. Porter Upton, Slough, May 31 _________________________________________ Nature - June 27, 1912 page 426 Clouds and Shadows Mr. Cyril Crossland's description (p. 322) of great shadow bands cast across the sky at sunset interested me, for I well remember being impressed by a similar phenomenon when crossing a New Mexicn prairie, with the sun setting behind the Rockies. I have seen the bands in England, but imperfectly. To a non-expert, like myself, Mr. Crossland's remark, "The shadows being cast by the refected light of the glowing clouds in the west, not by the sun itself, of course", present difficulties. A mass of glowing cloud seems to extensive a luminous source to cast definite shadows of peaks comparatively near it. Further, the sun being beyond the cloud, the bulk of the sunlight reflected by the cloud would fall the wrong way. Long after the sun's rays are cut off from the spectator, they will still be shining upon clouds high overhead, and therefore able to cast shadows. If we suppose the shadow rays described to be cast by the sun itself, then it is easy to explain the appearance of the rays converging to the east, which puzzled Mr. Crossland. If the height, above the earth, of the under-surface of the cloudy stratus be roughly uniform, then this surface may be practically regarded as plane so far as it is visible to the spectator. At any rate, the curvature will be small, for the visible portion of the cloud canopy is very small fraction of the sphere, concentric with the earth, of which it forms part. The sun being practically at infinite distance, the rays of shadow cast by it upon this overhead plane will be parallel, and hence, by the laws of perspective, will appear to converge as they recede from the zenith, or region nearest the spectator, to more distant regions east and west. Perhaps it is not always realised how far clouds "on the horizon" may be beyond the (terrestrial)horizons. It is quite an interesting little excercise to work out. Assume the earth to be a smooth sphere, and the lower cloud surface a smooth concent5ric shere. Let a line be drawn from A, the eye, to touch the earth at B, and produced to cut the cloud sphere at C. We have, roughly, BC^2 = (4000 + h)^2 - 4000^2 miles, h being the height of the cloud above earth. BC is independent of the spectator's altitude. For a cloud-height of five miles (if I have worked it right) BC is about 200 miles; and for a cloud-height of half a mile, BC is 89 1/2 miles. The first volume of a great German work on meteorology was devoted to explaining why the popular impression of the form of the sky is that of a flattened vault. If this is the general impression, it has struck me that it may be based on observation of the local cloud canopy rather that of the clear sky. Alice Everett Milbourne Lane, Esher.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Project 1947 - Call for Lecturers From: SOS OVNI <sosovni@AIX.PACWAN.NET> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:33:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:47:48 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Call for Lecturers To all fellow list members SOS OVNI is planning it's Ninth European congress to coincide this year with the "50th Anniversary". This will be held in the city of Lyon, from 17th to 19th May. We are calling for lectures from list members and all rigorous researchers who could present something before the european ufological community, the French public and the media. Barrier language is not a problem as lectures are translated and published in the proceedings given to participants upon arrival. There are also many participants who are fluent with English. The European Lyon Congress, while outside the "commercial ufological touring business" is one of the most important in Europe. It has already hosted speakers from the USA, Canada, England, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium, Norway, China, Russia, Hungary, among past participants : Hilary Evans, Jacques Vallee, Bill Moore, Terence Meaden, Edoardo Russo, Paolo Toselli, Michel Bounias (Trans-en-Provence trace analyst), Erling Strand, John Rimmer, Shi Bo, and many others. It is one of the most media covered congress of its kind, with coverage by French National TVs and radio and articles in Belgium, Canada, Portugal, Italy, England, Romania, etc. SOS OVNI is not of course as wealthy as some other groups from England or the States, so we could not offer free of charge a European tour or a 15 day stay in a 5 crown hotel with plenty of gifts, we can however lend a (financial) hand to anyone (far enough) wishing to come and meet us, either by offering a second class plane journey or the stay at Lyon Hotel (rooms, meals, etc.). We could assure you of a very friendly atmosphere, good food and a very comfortable stay. Please let us know rapidly by calling me or sending a fax. Thanking you for your attention. Perry Petrakis >From Europe :Phone/Fax : 00.33.442.12.30.59. >From North America :Phone/Fax : 011.33.442.12.30.59.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Moon Photos Redux From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jan 97 08:14:48 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:21:55 -0500 Subject: Moon Photos Redux Hi Everyone, I just want to thank everyone who took the time to look at the moon photos and comment on the claims made in Fortean Times. Suffice it to say that the arguments put forth in that article were specious and ill-informed, and were quickly demolished by the photo experts on my mailing list. Thanks to everyone who sent me information, other photos, and even mailed me books. So, what are my own conclusions. Simple: there is no photographic evidence that these photos are anything other than what NASA claims them to be, actual photos taken by our astronauts on the surface of the moon. However, there is one lone photograph which is still anomalous, and requires an explanation. This photo is from Apollo XII and shows Al Bean "collecting lunar samples". It was taken on 10/20/1969 and the NASA index number is AS12-49-7278. Actually, rather than depicting Bean "collecting" anything, it just shows him standing there holding some sort of instrument in his right hand. What's wrong with it? Well we see Bean from about waist up very clearly, and in his reflective helmet visor we see Pete Conrad standing a few yards away. Conrad is seen from head to toe with has his right arm hanging at his side, and his left arm hanging with elbow bent and his hand in front of his stomach. Now here's the problem, although we clearly see the camera on Bean's chest (one of those modified 500EL 70 mm jobs with a big handgrip on the bottom), we can not see any camera on Conrad's chest or in either hand. Where the hell is the camera that took the picture??? On top of that, the camera angle is funky. If Conrad was standing as he appears to be on level ground just in front of Bean, how come the camera is at a high angle looking down at Bean? There is no tripod, boom arm, or any other support visible. This one picture really bugs me. However, at the moment I have only seen it in printed versions. I am ordering a dupe transparency from NASA (although I am told that it can take up to 18 months for orders to be filled!!!) to take a better look. A Hasselblad is not easy to hide, so if it is anywhere in that reflection I ought to be able to see it. The only way I can think of for this photo to be taken would be for Conrad to set the self-timer and pitch the camera up in the air! But someone told me the Hasselblad moon cameras didn't have self timers. There is one other very questionable NASA photo which several people have called my attention to. It has nothing to do with moon photos. In July of 1966 Astronaut Michael Collins was photographed during a space walk (NASA ID # 66-40127). In a book written by Collins called "Carrying the Fire" there is a photo of him during a space walk simulation, inside an airplane flying an "outside loop" to create zero G for a short time. Now here is the problem with these two photos. If you take either one and flip it and superimpose it over the other, and rotate it so they line up, you will find that the image of Collins is the same. Every shadow, every highlight, every tiny detail lines up precisely. So, in this case there is no doubt in my mind at all that one of the photos is a fake. Either they took the simulated space walk photo and stripped in a starfield background, or they took the real one and stripped in an aircraft interior, and just to keep it from being obvious flipped the negative of Collins in the process. This one, which Graham Birdsall brought to my attention, stopped me in my tracks. No matter if every other photo ever released by NASA is 100% genuine, they faked this one back in 1966. Why????? It was claimed that Collins lost his camera during the space walk, so there were no pictures taken BY him. I hope all of you have found this exercise in photographic analysis interesting and fun, as I have. I'll keep you posted on any developments. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Skywatch - Strange Universe and Steve From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:03:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:20:50 -0500 Subject: Skywatch - Strange Universe and Steve ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:25:29 +0000 From: Steve Nalepa <s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com> Reply-to: s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com To: skywatch@wic.net Subject: Strange Universe and Steve Hello, My name is Steve Nalepa and I am a researcher for the tv news show Strange Universe. I just wanted to shed a little light on a few things, in particular I want to address some of the concerns expressed in a recent posting. --snip-- >The alleged implants removed from the woman's toe is the most compelling >and amazing video I have ever seen. The object removed looked like a >black triangle. For Strange Universe to omit this piece of evidence >and go with the hand "implant" is not just a mistake, it is an obvious >manipulation of the material presented. No one in his or her right >mind would want to omit this triangular object from a "well-balanced" >program. ------ We here at the show are working very hard to try and present information accurately and fairly. When we cover a story we try to provide as much information as possible in the amount of time alotted. Unfortunately the format of our show only allows segments to be at most 5 minutes in duration. Sometimes it is difficult to tell the stories as thoroughly as we would like in the time we have. And then there are other issues that factor in like clip clearance and people's availability. Anything we air on our show must be given approval by whoever owns the right to the photograph or footage, and in some cases we can't show some of the more compelling items that we would like to, because we can't get clearance rights. This is a fact, and sometimes a real bummer. In this particular segment, the abductee we happened to feature in the segment was Mr. Pat Parinello, who had an implant removed from his _hand_. For this reason, we showed his hand implant. Sometimes key players in a piece do not want to be on television. It happens. It's hard to tell stories about particular people if they refuse to play ball. Putting together a daily show is not an easy task, as anyone who has ever had the chance to work on one would be sure to tell you. There are many elements that factor in, and it can get quite crazy. This is my first experience in television, and I am in heaven. All day long I get to research fascinating material, learning about an incredibly wide range of things. I do my best to push our show towards being more educational, incorporating more science, etc. Well, it's a complicated process, but all in all it seems to flow. Before doing research here, I taught high school math here in California, and before that I was on the east coast studying at Yale University. It was an incredible experience, and I've really grown and learned from it. I've met a lot of incredible people with amazing minds. I've been fortunate enough to study under some real masters. (for example, I was fortunate enough to have a class on chaos theory and fractal geometry taught by Benoit Mandlebrot) I've met some really inspirational people, who've encouraged me to go out and try to make the world a better place. Well, I can tell you that the people that work here at Strange Universe are all intelligent, loving, and very interesting. It's an eclectic bunch, and we are doing our best. It's funny, I get a kick out of reading some of the grand conspiracy theories that have evolved: >makes me have to wonder who is really pulling the strings and >issuing orders at Strange Universe, and indeed, at UPN. It only >leads to more credence that the Global Elite control the major media. Wow! I didn't know I was part of the Global Elite! Our show must be doing better than I thought... No, seriously...I am open to many things, and I think that David Icke's work is very compelling. However, I don't think that this is the case here. We're dealing with a more complex picture, one with many variables and factors that all play a part in the final outcome that is the show that airs on tv. It's always easiest to write things off as a great conspiracy, but I really believe that people are good at heart by nature. We're trying our best to bring attention to some things that don't get covered normally. I've had an opportunity to meet and work with some incredible people through this job, from astronauts to scholars. It has been quite a treat. If you had the opportunity to meet some of the people that work on our show you would realize that we are not a "Global Elite Media Conpiracy", but we're a bunch of earthlings, just like you, that want love in their life and peace. I mean that's what it all essentially comes down to in the end, anyway. Yes we live in a world that's imperfect. Yes there's problems with the way things are sometimes. But I do believe that everyone has the opportunity to make something beautiful and wonderful for themself in this existence here and now. I'm trying, believe me. As are the others that work on the show with me. Please give us feedback. Let us know what we can do better, what we're doing right, what we're doing wrong. It's a young, evolving show. We will continue to work hard and do our best to present the information as accurately and fairly as possible. If you ever want to discuss anything, please feel free to e-mail or call me here at: Strange Universe, Steve Nalepa (818) 972-9816 e-mail: s.nalepa@ix.netcom.com Peace, Steve ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #9. From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:07:46 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:24:01 -0500 Subject: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #9. Welcome to The Crop Circle Connector Mailing list #9. (Members 970 on 23-1-97) We are changing the format of the mailing list to make it easier for our readers to find the new updates on the Connector. From now on we are linking all the new material on the Whats New page, which you can find by clicking on the link or icon on:- http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/connect.html The updates: ------------ ON ilyles Homepage. OCVid -update. Hot off the press: The latest news on the Oliver's Castle video, with reactions from around the world. OCVid - Analyses of perceptions. Ongoing detailed analyses on the controversial video. New Crop Circle of the Month. Chehalis, Nr Washington formation 1996 U.S.A The first six chapters of Palden Jenkin's On-line Book Healing the Hurts of Nations. (Palden Jenkin's Homepage) All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Alfred's Odd Ode #81 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:54:32 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:22:58 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #81 Apology to MW #81 (For January 23, 1997) If one takes on an Alien View The world becomes shallow and strange. It misses points completely, It's self destructive, and deranged. A stunted scum of carbon In a carry all that swells, In fits and in starts it eats its own parts. . . But damned. . . if not beautiful as well! In shallow leaps, at potential's fraction, It wallows, lolls, and lays waste. It supports just a few, at the cost of the rest -- It does this while feeling _so_ chaste. It uses itself, *those* judged worthless by *some*, As the oil it needs to be *life styled*; It refuses to hear the sad moans of these lessor, As they starve, are dismissed, and defiled. Views Alien show that the answers are _there_! The Kingdom was (so truly) _here_ at hand! But for convenience of the sociopathic few, We are but scum upon stressed land. But if this *scum* was self aware It could have its total conscience. It could heal it's wounds, re-educate -- It would then _have_ at least some substance. You know! We have that _now_ in cyberspace. This non polluting world. . . Where mind to mind connection Can so effortless be swirled. And here could be that single conscience, In a cybertronic world. That gets too big, to fast, to quick -- Makes some go faint, and hurl. . .<g>. But optimistic though the View can be It is matter of fact and pragmatic. And it knows that it's the spirit that matters; What _won't_ matter's elitist static! Lehmberg@snowhill.com "Man, you have acted the fool. You had the amenities; you had all the tools. You should have pushed harder to get off your rock! It's still not too late, best get straight, and take stock"!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jan 97 09:48:07 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:26:57 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' Chris, >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:16:23 -0600 (CST) >It's like the discovery that garlic has *something* to do with the >reduction in the numbers of cancer cells in the body. Does that mean we >should abandon all other leads or studies unrelated to garlic? No; we >file it and devote some energy to investigating it, but remember the >limitations of research. And those of us not among the undead eat lots of it!!!! Good thing we don't have virtual scent transmission yet! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jan 97 09:48:10 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:28:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:31:59 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg Jorgen, Tough questions don't bother me, attitudes do. You were acting as though you had some right to demand answers from me when I had told you I could not provide certain information which I had agreed to keep confidential. >f you recieved $2000 by Santili for expences - doesn't that make you >disqualified to be neutral? I received $ 2,000 from Ray Santilli and $ 250 from Lou Farish. That's my total income from this to date. I have spent more than $ 10,000 in my investigations. The $ 2,000 was reimbursement for part of my expenses for a trip to New Mexico to look for the crash site, a trip which was totally inconclusive. Don't you think that if Ray had "bought" me I would have certainly found a crash site, and it would have been just where "Jack" said it was? As I've said before, I get paid for consulting work all the time, as well as getting reimbursement for expenses. No one has ever suggested before that this would influence the results of my work. Maybe to some people $ 2,000 is a whopping lot of money, but to me it is less than I earn in a week in my "real job", and so highly unlikely to influence me. As far as what Hesemann and Mantle got, they have both responded to this themselves and since I was not party to any negotiations and did not personally witness any money changing hands, I prefer to reserve comment on this. I have heard no rumors about Santilli fixing up Philip's house, and doubt there would be any substance to them. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: 'Nature', 1912, Letters to The Editor From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:42:27 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:25:12 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Nature', 1912, Letters to The Editor > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:06:59 -0600 (CST) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Brian Zeiler <bdzeiler@anet-chi.com> > Subject: Clouds and shadows in "Nature" > About a month or so ago, a few of us discussed an old UFO-related case > discussed in the British journal "Nature" in 1912. Here are six articles I > found. Jan, please note the dates -- I believe one or two of the dates you > mentioned may have been mistaken. No doubt. My information was taken from an early draft Barry Greenwood was working on: a bibliography of UFO related articles in popular magazines and scholarly journals. (Wish he'd use a computer data base.) Since the draft was written, he has gone to a more useful and accurate method of recording and filing entries. I do not have access to the new material which is a work in progress. Of course any assistance would be welcome. Most national US magazines and larger scientific journals are completed. This leave smaller scientific journal, regional magazines, corporate magazines, items which are not likely to be indexed (ie men's magazines), etc. One magazine that is hard to local, PATHFINDER, a news magazine in the 1940-50s, also apparently has no index. The magazine I inquired about, SOUTHERN WINGS, is also difficult to locate. Although, one contributor to Project 1947 has found an interlibrary loan source in Dallas. In the 19th century many communities had "Scientific Associations" and published "natural philosophy journals" some of which contained anomalous events. These are also most interesting. In many cases the only copies that exist are in libraries or small historical societies. Ditto, small regional folklore magazines. Canadian and foreign magazines and journals are also incomplete. Assistance in locating these publications would also be welcome. Canadian indices to publication list one or articles prior to 1959. The indices are obviously incomplete. Publications from the UK and Ireland and literature in languages other than English is also lacking. The goal of Greenwood's efforts is to have a copy of each item in the bibliography as a reference set. Eventually, and hopefully, these will be microfilmed or recorded on CD-rom. (No doubt there will be giant copyright problems here.) Greenwood's contact address is P. O Box 176, Stoneham, MA 02180 or send me an E-mail at jan@cyberzone.net Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:16:00 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:57:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:11:37 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos >My observations... The man in the photos seems to be wearing glasses in >the enhanced photo, but doesn't seen to be wearing any in the unehanced >photo. >I wonder...did he remove his glasses during the interview or am i wrong >about the no glasses? It also looks to me like he has either a mole or >some kind of growth on the right side of his face near the mouth. What is >that? The man in the photo looks like he could be 80 to me. >I think this might turn out to be the first REAL lead we've had on this >controversial issue in a long time. I think that learning the identity >of this alleged cameraman might possibly be our last chance to learn the >truth and genesis of this film. >What do you think? Bill, I think those good people at missing persons should put his face on the side of a milk carton, or something along those lines. Mass mailings to the Tampa area? Rob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Second Hubble Space Telescope Servicing Mission Set From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:51:25 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:58:43 -0500 Subject: Second Hubble Space Telescope Servicing Mission Set Don Savage Headquarters, Washington, DC January 23, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1547) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Kyle Herring Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX (Phone: 281/483-5111) NOTE TO EDITORS: N97-4 PRE-FLIGHT BRIEFINGS FOR SECOND HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE SERVICING MISSION SET FOR JANUARY 31 A series of briefings to preview the activities and objectives of NASA's second servicing mission to the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) will be held on Friday, Jan. 31 at the Johnson Space Center (JSC), Houston, TX, and the Goddard Space Flight Center (GSFC), Greenbelt, MD. During the mission, designated STS-82, Discovery's seven astronauts will retrieve the orbiting telescope. After HST is secured in the Shuttle's cargo bay, four separate spacewalks will be conducted during which various HST components will be removed and replaced before the telescope is released to continue its investigations into the mysteries of the universe. The STS-82 pre-flight briefings will begin at JSC at 8 a.m. EST with the crew news conference. That will be followed by a mission briefing at 9 a.m. At 10 a.m., the location of the briefings will switch to NASA Headquarters for an HST payloads briefing followed by an HST science briefing at 11 a.m. NASA's daily video file feed will air at its regular time of noon, EST. The final briefing of the day will originate at JSC at 12:30 p.m. EST to discuss the Hubble servicing spacewalks. All of the briefings will be carried on NASA Television with two-way question and answer capability from participating NASA centers. NASA Television is available on Spacenet-2, Transponder 5, channel 9, C-Band, at 69 degrees West longitude, frequency 3880.0 MHz, audio 6.8 Mhz. STS-82 PRE-FLIGHT BRIEFINGS (All times are EST) Time Subject Site 8 a.m. - 9 a.m. STS-82 Crew Briefing JSC Kenneth D. Bowersox, Mission Commander Scott J. "Doc" Horowitz, Pilot Joseph R. "Joe" Tanner , Mission Specialist-1 Steven A. Hawley, Mission Specialist-2 Gregory J. Harbaugh, Mission Specialist-3 Mark C. Lee, Mission Specialist-4 Steven L. Smith, Mission Specialist-5 9 a.m. - 10 a.m. Mission Overview JSC Jeff Bantle, STS-82 Lead Flight Director 10 a.m. - 11 a.m. HST Payload Briefing HQ Kenneth Ledbetter, Director, Mission and Payload Development Division, Office Space Science, HQ John Campbell, Associate Director, Flight Projects Directorate, GSFC Frank Cepollina, Project Manager, HST Flight Systems and Servicing Project, GSFC Ian Pryke, European Space Agency, Washington, DC 11 a.m. - noon Science Overview HQ Dr. Edward Weiler, HST Chief Scientist and Director, NASA Origins Program, HQ Dr. David Leckrone, HST Project Scientist, GSFC Dr. Rodger Thompson, Principal Investigator, NICMOS, University of Arizona Dr. Bruce Woodgate, Principal Investigator, STIS, GSFC Noon NASA Video File HQ 12:30 pm - 2 pm HST Spacewalk Briefing JSC Oscar Koehler, Lead EVA Officer -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:47:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:00:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg Hi Bob. >Date: 23 Jan 97 09:48:10 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:31:59 +0100 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Jorgen, >Tough questions don't bother me, attitudes do. You were acting as though you >had some right to demand answers from me when I had told you I could not >provide certain information which I had agreed to keep confidential. Attitude can be a very useful source sometimes. Too many interested people give Ufologists that are in the book-business too much slack if you ask me. I've been a journalist for 12 years and I have never ever been given true answers by being nice and drop a serious question (as I have discovered to many times afterwards). I can't see that I have ever used any kind of "demanding questions". I have simply asked you, straight forward, to answer some questions me and others are asking ourself due to your part of the AA-film. >>if you recieved $2000 by Santili for expences - doesn't that make you >>disqualified to be neutral? >I received $ 2,000 from Ray Santilli and $ 250 from Lou Farish. That's my >total income from this to date. I have spent more than $ 10,000 in my >investigations. >The $ 2,000 was reimbursement for part of my expenses for a trip to New >Mexico to look for the crash site, a trip which was totally inconclusive. >Don't you think that if Ray had "bought" me I would have certainly found >a crash site, and it would have been just where "Jack" said it was? What would suggest that there ever was a crashsite at the location you visited? Wouldn't it be quite "clean-picked" by now? And how did you come up with a location? From the cameraman? >As I've said before, I get paid for consulting work all the time, as well as >getting reimbursement for expenses. No one has ever suggested before that >this would influence the results of my work. Maybe to some people $ 2,000 >is a whopping lot of money, but to me it is less than I earn in a week in >my "real job", and so highly unlikely to influence me. If you earn so much money, why expressing your sadness of not being paid enough and in need of publishers money? Wouldn't it seem more "upright/honest" to not take money from the man (Ray Santili) you're supposed to investigate and give us the truth about in your upcoming book? - as you seem to be able to afford it. >As far as what Hesemann and Mantle got, they have both responded to this >themselves and since I was not party to any negotiations and did not >personally witness any money changing hands, I prefer to reserve comment >on this. I have heard no rumors about Santilli fixing up Philip's house, >and doubt there would be any substance to them. >Bob I respect this and I will contact them personally. Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:24:32 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:01:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? Bob Shell writes (1/22/97): >Hi Mac, >Nice to see someone who is really thinking about this. I speculated back in >1995 that these things might be "biots" or biological robots, based on their >apparently simplified internal structure and the lack of gyri and sulci on the >brain. Using a mammalian model, a creature with a smooth brain like this could >not be particularly smart. That is still one possibility of what these beings >are. [...] >To me one of the most interesting things is that prosthetic device removed from >the heart, which several thoracic surgeons have identified as an artificial >heart valve. Both bodies have it, and neither one has a scar on the chest from >its implanting. This implies that these creatures are "manufactured", as also >does the lack of navel. Note: The artificial heart valves may have been designed to help the creatures survive harsh acceleration. >When we were first getting into space we sent up monkeys and chimps as test >subjects before we sent up the first humans. We considered them similar enough >to us, but expendable. If we could have manufactured biological robots, might >these not have been our first choice? >It has been argued that these creatures look "too human" to be ET. I agree. I >think their origin is 100% terrestrial. I suspect that DNA tests have now been >done and have verified that their basic DNA is human, although either >artificially modified by genetic engineering or hybridization. Where do I >think they came from? I think they most likely came from the distant future >or past, in other words that they are temponauts not astronauts. Bob-- Thanks for your thoughts on this! On "temponauts": I think this theory has a lot going for it, if the AA footage is genuine. Maybe these entities were being used at some point to study the biological effects of time travel on human-like subjects. The fact that they crashed indicates that the form of travel utilized was potentially hazardous, which might account for the apparent new UFO designs seen after 1947 (I'm postulating for the time being that the vehicle that crashed was crescent-shaped, like the craft sighted by Kenneth Arnold; please see the alleged gun-camera photo at http://www.strieber.com ). It's interesting to wonder if the civilization that sent these "biots" knew that one of their missions was going to crash, since the event would have taken place in its own remote (or not so remote) past. Of course, the creatures' "humanity" doesn't necessarily mean that they're "100% terrestrial." Perhaps genuine aliens were experimenting with humanoid bodies for some reason we can only guess at. **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Posting Instructions From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:29:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:29:45 -0500 Subject: Posting Instructions I _do_not_ have the time to tidy up messages. This List is a free service - all subscribers have to do is abide by the rules. Those of you who choose not to lay out your messages as per the following instructions will not have your messages posted. End of story. Posting Instructions >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 16:45:57 -0500 >Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 16:45:57 -0500 >Subject: Posting Instructions To help current and future readers of UFO UpDates' posts and the UFO UpDates Instant Archive software at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates please observe the following rules when posting to the List. 1. Line-length Please make your lines no more than 70 characters long ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Longer lines are wrapped by various pieces of software along the Net and leave awkward and eye-jarring line lengths. 2. Attribution When responding to a message on the List, _always_ include the 'header' from that message at the start of your message - eg.: >Date: 01 Jan 97 00:00:01 EST >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bob Bobberts> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area It's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you are answering. 3. Quoting _Always_ quote from the message to which you are responding. Keep quoted material from previous messages to a minimum: Just quote enough text to let people know what you are responding to. Excessive quoting will result in your message not being posted to the List. Start each quoted line with a 'greater-than' sign (>) as the first character. The Archive software will automatically italicize these lines. Visit the Archive page and take a look. Messages that do not utilize the required quoting protocol will not be posted to UFO Updates. Most modern E-Mail software will allow the user to click a 'Reply' button and automatically open a new window, with the message being responded to inserted with universal quote-mark (>) at the beginning of each line. When 'Reply' is clicked, some E-Mail software will insert a line which states: On 01 Jan 97 at 00:00:01 EST, UFO UpDates wrote: If your program does this, please remove it - UFO UpDates did not _write_ the message - it was merely posted to the List by UpDates. 5. Don't send 'personal' responses to the list that should be sent directly to the original author. Send a message to the list only if it contains new information that you want EVERYONE to see. Messages that contain what the List Administrator considers to be personal attacks or 'flames' will not be posted to the List. Those messages will be forwarded to the person they refer to for their information. 6. URLs (Web Site addresses) _must_ include http:// and be on one line. The Archive software will make the URL a 'click-able' link to that address in your archived message. ------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Article from Emory University Web Site From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:31:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:27:40 -0500 Subject: Article from Emory University Web Site ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:11:11 -0800 From: Judy Tuttle <lotus144@usa.net> Reply-to: lotus144@usa.net To: skywatch@wic.net Subject: Article from Emory University Web Site Posted by TRUTH on January 21, 1997 at 11:59:22: The Courtney Brown affair and academic freedom Academic freedom -- the right of faculty members to pursue and discuss whatever interests they wish, no matter how outlandish or repugnant others might find them -- is a cornerstone of institutions of higher learning. Without it, the very rationale undergirding that remarkable democratic organization we call a university crumbles. Nevertheless, there are inevitably times when academic freedom conflicts with a university's best interests. When this occurs, vexing pragmatic and ethical questions arise. The most recent example of this conflict at Emory involves Dr. Courtney Brown, an associate professor in the political science department. Brown's actions and words have, to put it mildly, aroused considerable ridicule and controversy at Emory and in the broader academic community. In his new book, Cosmic Voyages: A Scientific Discovery of Extraterrestrials Visiting Earth, Brown claims to use powers of "remote viewing" (an alleged psychic ability permitting individuals to "see" objects at enormous distances) to visit Mars and observe the actions of aliens. He purports to have uncovered indisputable evidence that two races of extraterrestrials, Martians and Greys, left the red planet centuries ago and have taken up residence in the dark recesses of Earth. But Brown does not stop there. His remote viewing methods, which are "as rigorously controlled as those used in any solid social science text," have revealed that Adam and Eve were architects of a genetic engineering project and that numerous Star Trek episodes were written with the assistance of aliens. In one of the book's more remarkable chapters, "The Grey Mind," Brown claims to have "entered the mind" of an extraterrestrial and investigated its psychological make-up. Brown, who directs the "Farsight Institute" in Atlanta, offers seminars--at a cost of $3,000 per head--that promise to provide attendees with the psychic abilities he has mastered. One hardly knows where to begin. Brown's book is remarkable for its virtually complete absence of any data that would qualify as scientific by even the most liberal evidential standards. His "findings" consist entirely of unverified subjective experiences, and the reader searches in vain for anything vaguely resembling a controlled experiment. Brown neglects to mention either the results of a recent government-appointed scientific panel on remote viewing, which concluded that "evidence for the operational value of remote viewing is not available, even after a decade of attempts," or the critiques of Ray Hyman, a psychologist at the University of Oregon, who has shown that the scientific evidence in support of remote viewing is seriously flawed. Philosopher David Hume maintained that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; Brown's evidence is, to be charitable, singularly unimpressive. In light of Brown's claims, I recently challenged him to a test of his alleged psychic abilities. I proposed that he appear at a meeting of my undergraduate seminar on Science and Pseudoscience in Psychology, where my students and I would subject him to a simple controlled experiment examining his capacity to remotely view stimuli in an adjacent room. I assured him that he would have considerable input regarding the selection of stimulus materials, and agreed to publicize the results of this test in both Emory newspapers regardless of its outcome. But Brown categorically refused. His reasoning was curious: In his e-mail response to me, he asserted that "tests of the type you have talked about are very old hat" and that the current status of remote viewing "goes light years beyond that which your letter suggests." But if Brown's psychic powers are as advanced as he claims, shouldn't he be able to pass an elementary test of these powers with flying colors? Brown also declined my offer on the grounds that he did "not want to drag Emory into my other activities" and that he is "rigorous about not mixing what I do elsewhere with what I do at Emory." This rationale seems disingenuous at best. If Brown did not wish to involve Emory in his exploits, why did he list his academic affiliation with Emory in his book and on his web site? Brown apparently wants to have it both ways: He publicizes his association with Emory when it might afford him the imprimatur of academic legitimacy, but refuses to submit to scientific tests by Emory colleagues on the grounds that he does not wish to "drag Emory" into a firestorm of controversy. But it is too late: Emory's reputation has already been besmirched. As George Armelagos of the Department of Anthropology notes, "Brown is naive if he believes his fantasies do not affect the image of the University." Why should we at Emory care about Brown? Many of his Emory colleagues will surely suggest that he is best ignored. But such an attitude would be misguided. As Carl Sagan argues in his recent book, The Demon-Haunted World, the public's inability to think critically about scientific issues is an unappreciated source of our educational and social woes. By remaining silent on Brown's shenanigans, we do our students, who desperately need role models of clear reasoning, a serious disservice. Moreover, we leave ourselves open to criticisms such as those of Robert Baker of the University of Kentucky, who suggested that the Brown affair "bring(s) into question whether Emory has any high scientific standards." So how should Emory respond to Brown? I would argue that Brown's academic freedom be protected unconditionally, and that we defend his right to pursue his interests without threat of official sanction or penalty. Nevertheless, academic freedom also gives Brown's colleagues license to criticize him openly. It is incumbent on qualified Emory faculty to inform the public that Brown's assertions are scientifically irresponsible, and that his money-making ventures and refusal to submit himself to independent tests of his paranormal claims are ethically reprehensible. Academic freedom, like all freedoms (e.g., the right to vote), becomes meaningless when not exercised. Let us not forfeit it at a time when Emory's reputation as a serious institution of higher learning is being challenged. Scott O. Lilienfeld is an assistant professor in the Department of Psychology. http://www.farsight.org/wwwboard/messages/5590.html ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:24:44 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:30:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 23:17:35 -0000 > From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Fortean Times received a notice from Orbital Media Ltd warning us that > any unauthorised use of images of the 'cameraman' downloaded from the net > or obtained elsewhere would result in legal action. I guess the letter > went out to many publications. > We will of course comply as we have no wish to flout the laws of > copyright, but we deplore, generally, a situation in which data that can > help clear up the complex mysteries that abound in ufology today are > commercial property. It makes genuine research and progress towards > answers and understanding very difficult. Well, I don't think I've disguised my opinions on this issue, but I can't blame Santilli, or others, for wanting to make a buck. Santilli has maintained from the beginning that he entered into this arrangment for the money. While perhaps not the most laudable notion, it is a legal, ethical, and respectable one. I deplore this information as much as anyone else. If Santilli was interested in something other than money, he would have long ago released everything he has into the public domain. If he was interested in the truth, he would do the same. In the end, it's Santilli's ball game, he owns the ball, he owns the bat, we play by his rules. Of course, his rules haven't lended credibility to his case. Michael Malone KF4MYX
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Projects Sign & Grudge - Just Cause From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:36:53 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:29:13 -0500 Subject: Projects Sign & Grudge - Just Cause Hi All.. The latest issue of _Just_Cause_ just arrived in the mailbox with more news of recently retrieved documents from Projects 'Sign' and 'Grudge'. Other articles include an analysis of NASA's cautious announcement of the 'Martian Meteorite'; an "interesting State Department release" documenting the nocturnal activities of two U.S. Government officials during their visit to the HQ of the 'China UFO Research Society'; details of a new index for UFO documents developed by Ed Stewart; and a balanced appraisal of Carl Sagan's contributions to science and UFOlogy. Included with _Just Cause_ is the "Special Blowhard Edition" of Robert Todd's new publication, _The Spot Report_. Hard-edged, between-the-eyes stuff, definitely not for the UFOlogically feint-of-heart. At $15 U.S. or $20 Foreign, _Just Cause_ remains one of the best bargains in UFO literature. To subscribe, write to: CAUS Box 176 Stoneham, Ma. 02180 U.S.A - John -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: _Just Cause_ #49 'Citizens Against UFO Secrecy' Dec '96 _PROJECTS SIGN AND GRUDGE RECORDS RELEASED_. Yet another large document release of early Project Sign and Project Grudge records have been made available. Sign and Grudge, for those unfamiliar, were the Air Force's first organized UFO investigations beginning in 1947 through the early 1950s. Nearly one thousand pages of documents were released from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, Missouri. They are amongst the records mentioned in the General Accounting Office's report on Roswell as having been consulted by the GAO in the process of their crashed-disc inquiry. The release was cleared by the National Air Intelligence Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio on November 20, 1996. About two-thirds of the records concern Project Sign activities in 1948, the rest dealing with 1949. It is a mixture of case material and administrative handling of the investigations. Most notable so far is that once again, as in the case of the 4602nd AISS records for the mid-1950s obtained from the National Archives (Just Cause, March-June 1996), we see that missing cases from the Project Sign years are surfacing through this release. For example, the San Acadia Dam, N.M. case of July 17, 1948, listed as missing in the Project Blue Book inventories at the Archives, is listed here. Same with Columbus Ohio, July 8, 1948 and Sterling, Utah, October 16, 1948. The long-suspected extra copies of Air Force records, kept aside from the Air Force's main Blue Book case holding, are beginning to surface, repairing some of the damage to the historical record thought to have been created by the missing records. An interesting remark appears in a June 23, 1948 document from the Acting Chief of Intelligence, Col. R.D. Wentworth, enclosing corrections to a draft copy of a "Special Report-Project Sign." Relating information from the Air Force's Director of Research and Development, Wentworth revealed that a "vast majority of the objects" were similar to flying wing-type aircraft of low aspect ratio (i.e. thin or flat) and that reference should be made to this fact and such past experiments by the Air Force's Engineering Division and to present experiments by the Navy. In other words many of the reports might have been caused by the sighting of experimental vehicles by the military. We can relate this to modern reports of strange aircraft near places like "Area 51." So as late as June 1948, high level thinking tilted towards UFOs largely being experimental, low aspect ratio aircraft, not alien ships. At this time we would have had the Roswell "vehicle" for about a year. If we already knew that UFOs were alien and had the proof, why this tremendous amount of wasted energy chasing high-altitude reports? Wouldn't the Air Force's Director of Research and Development have had his hands full doing research on the in-hand alien vehicle instead of being concerned with sightings of distant objects which were often not clearly reported or which contained little useful detail for an engineer? If we are to accept stories about the Estimate of the Situation, the reported Air Force Project Sign document that allegedly concluded that flying saucers were extraterrestrial vehicles, then what had happened between June 23, 1948 and the writing of the Estimate, said to have occurred in the summer of 1948? Major Dewey Fournet, one of the few remaining witnesses to the existence of the Estimate, has said that the document's conclusion was based upon the existing case material of that time and that the conclusion was an "extreme extrapolation" from those reports, and that physical evidence did not figure in the conclusion. The only major story after June 23, 1948 to the end of the summer was the Chiles-Whitted incident of July 24, 1948. The sighting at 2:45 AM by the Eastern Airlines pilots was of a 100-foot, torpedo-shaped object with a double row of glowing windows and a blue glow of light underneath. It took place in the air near Montgomery, Alabama. And indeed it has been said by a former head of Project Blue Book (Edward Ruppelt, _Report on Unidentified Flying Objects,_ 1956, page 41) that the sighting had a profound influence on Project Sign personnel, to the extent that it led them to conclude that UFOs were interplanetary. This one incident can be argued to be the single most important sighting in the Air Force's records, according to the influence it had on Air Force thinking. But what about crashed discs and Roswell? Shouldn't that have had a more profound influence long before? Where does such fit into real history? As researchers continue to gain insight into government UFO investigations, we continue to get the same message from the flow of early records. Physical evidence does not figure into the equation. The government was groping for solutions. We may be surprised by future discoveries but until that happens we must depend upon what we know to be real rather than imaginary events. *E-O-F* -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:34:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:32:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:24:32 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: On "temponauts," etc. >Bob Shell writes (1/22/97): >>Hi Mac, >>Nice to see someone who is really thinking about this. I speculated back in >>1995 that these things might be "biots" or biological robots, based on their >>apparently simplified internal structure and the lack of gyri and sulci on the >>brain. Using a mammalian model, a creature with a smooth brain like this >>could not be particularly smart. That is still one possibility of what these >>beings are. >[...] >Note: The artificial heart valves may have been designed to help the creatures >survive harsh acceleration. >>When we were first getting into space we sent up monkeys and chimps as test >>subjects before we sent up the first humans. We considered them similar >>enough to us, but expendable. If we could have manufactured biological >>robots, might these not have been our first choice? [snipped] >Bob-- >On "temponauts": I think this theory has a lot going for it, if the AA footage >is genuine. Maybe these entities were being used at some point to study the >biological effects of time travel on human-like subjects. The fact that they >crashed indicates that the form of travel utilized was potentially hazardous, >which might account for the apparent new UFO designs seen after 1947 (I'm >postulating for the time being that the vehicle that crashed was >crescent-shaped, like the craft sighted by Kenneth Arnold; please see the >alleged gun-camera photo at http://www.strieber.com ). It's interesting to >wonder if the civilization that sent these "biots" knew that one of their >missions was going to crash, since the event would have taken place in its own >remote (or not so remote) past. >Of course, the creatures' "humanity" doesn't necessarily mean that they're >"100% terrestrial." Perhaps genuine aliens were experimenting with humanoid >bodies for some reason we can only guess at. Mac and Bob, Sorry to interject here on your theorizing of the alien bodies recovered at Roswell, but I simply am beginning to feel like the guy that's sitting at the back of the class while everyone else is nodding and agreeing with the teacher at the front. My hand would be up and when I got noticed, I would simply say "EXCUSE me, But is anyone ELSE in here having a problem with THIS?" Gentlemen, before we go on theorizing about WHAT these things are in the "supposed footage" of the Alien autopsy, perhaps we should try verifying the authenticity of the creatures as being something that were NOT created by us (humans) to dupe other humans. The Santilli film is, and has been, undergoing much scrutiny to determine if it is real or not. I personally am skeptical and not entirely convinced one way or the other that it is real or it is fake. I work again from the theory of motive and unfortunately, there is strong motive for the film to be "staged" simply based on the potential economic windfall that could result from such an "earth-shattering" event. However, I'm also convinced that there was cover-up of information in Roswell in 1947 and that it STRONGLY has an odour of extraterrestrial involvement. Again, I work from motive and have yet to find anyone who can convince me what motive the people in and around Roswell had for contriving and / or maintaining the story of a "crashed or shot-down Flying Saucer." To come back to my previous point, I simply feel that your efforts would be better spent in trying to determine if the film is REAL or NOT, before making suppositions on WHAT type of creature, either "manufactured" or "space monkey" or "Robot" that the "Aliens", or our FUTURE generations might have sent us. Believe me when I say it was all I could do not to comment about your obvious "knowledge" of Alien, Bio-robotic or Alien "Test Animals". Once again, my THREE cents worth on Roswell and related events. David (Furry) Furlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 23 Rosell, Paul Davids & Cecil Adams From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:38:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:34:26 -0500 Subject: Rosell, Paul Davids & Cecil Adams >From: Ndunlks@aol.com >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:38:36 -0500 (EST) >To: iufo@world.std.com >Subject: IUFO: Producer of Roswell Movie Responds to Straight Dope >SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List >Cecil Adams replied: >I think the word you're looking for in your last paragraph is "humility," not >"hubris." But let's not nitpick. >I have attempted to address some of the contentions in your letter below. >1. PHIL KLASS IS INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST, REVILED, ETC. >Nonsense. I spoke with two prominent UFO researchers, Karl Pflock and Kevin >Randle. Both have written books about Roswell and believed there was some >basis to the stories about crashed spaceships. Pflock no longer believes >these stories but Randle still does and in fact he was a technical consultant >for your movie. Although both men had fundamental disagreements with Phil >Klass, they spoke well of him and said he was a person of integrity. Both >said they found you rather credulous. >2. THE MILITARY DESTROYED KEY DOCUMENTS RELATING TO THE CASE WITHOUT >AUTHORIZATION. >Three years' worth of outgoing messages from Roswell were destroyed during >housecleaning, apparently when the military records center was moved from >Kansas City to St. Louis. The destruction of records was handled somewhat >casually but government archivists doubt this can be attributed to a >conspiracy. In any case indications are that the Roswell affair was handled >largely by telephone. >There is no question that the military was genuinely concerned about UFOs >during the late 1940s and early 1950s. Secret documents declassified in the >mid-1980s reveal anxious discussions on the subject among high-level >officials. However, none of these documents indicate that the government had >any physical evidence of crashed saucers or the like. On the contrary, a >number of documents lament the lack of such evidence. >3. JESSE MARCEL, JR., SAYS THE STRANGE SYMBOLS HE SAW ON THE DEBRIS WERE >EMBOSSED ON THE METAL, NOT PRINTED ON TAPE. >Jesse Marcel, Jr., was a child at the time of the incident. Nearly 50 years >have passed. Marcel's statements regarding the debris have made him a >celebrity on the UFO circuit. 'Nuff said. >4. THE DATES OF THE SECRET PROJECT MOGUL BALLOON LAUNCHES DO NOT COINCIDE >WITH THE ROSWELL INCIDENT. >Baloney. A 600-foot-long string of two dozen weather balloons and several >kitelike radar reflectors was launched from Alamogordo, N.M., on June 4, >1947. Contact with the balloons was lost when they were less than 20 miles >from the Brazel ranch. Mac Brazel found the mysterious debris June 14. > Contemporary descriptions of the debris suggest its appearance was similar >to that of a wrecked balloon train. >5. BARRY GOLDWATER TAKES THE "CRASHED SPACESHIP" EXPLANATION VERY SERIOUSLY. >So? Sen. Goldwater has no personal knowledge of Roswell. Neither do any of >the other famous names you cite. >6. GEN. EXON SAYS IT WAS AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRASH WITH BODIES. >Gen. Exon's statements were based on hearsay. He did not become commander at >Wright Patterson until many years after the Roswell incident. He never saw >any debris. >7. GEN. DUBOSE SAYS THE "WEATHER BALLOON" STORY WAS CONCOCTED ON ORDERS FROM >ABOVE. >Of course. The weather balloon story was intended to conceal the Project >Mogul experiment, a secret Pentagon project to develop a way to detect >anticipated Russian atom bomb tests. >8. FORMER SGT. BOB DEAN SAYS HE SAW A SECRET MEMO SAYING THE MILITARY HAS >EVIDENCE OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL SPACECRAFT. >Neither Pflock nor Randle found Dean's statements believable. >Although I don't suppose there's much chance of persuading you, Paul, others >may be interested in Karl Pflock's story. He describes himself as skeptical >about Roswell but says "there's still a chunk of [UFO] data that can't be >explained by known science." >Pflock initially was inclined to believe the Roswell UFO stories and spent >nearly four years researching them. However, "when I got into it, a whole lot >of what had been claimed turned out not to have been true at all," he says. >Pflock says he now doesn't think Roswell had anything to do with aliens. "The >congruence between the Project Mogul equipment and what we know about the >[Roswell] debris is just too great to be dismissed." He plans to discuss the >matter in a book to be published on the 50th anniversary of the incident >entitled, "The Roswell UFO Mystery: Legend and Reality." >Everybody says you know how to make an entertaining movie, though. Cecil Adams' comments and retort to Paul Davids made for interesting reading. I as well would like to comment on HIS comments. 1. PHIL KLASS IS INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST, REVILED, ETC I personally refuse to go here, simply as I have not met the man and as such, have no personal opinion of him. Additionally, I also like to follow some advice my dear old granny gave me, "If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all." Advice that I suggest both you and Mr. Davids adopt. 2. THE MILITARY DESTROYED KEY DOCUMENTS RELATING TO THE CASE WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION. It is WELL documented that official information from the era of 1947 concerning Roswell is not forthcoming and that even when congressmen or senators request such information, they get stonewalled or receive documents with so much of them blacked out that they are virtually useless. 3. JESSE MARCEL, JR., SAYS THE STRANGE SYMBOLS HE SAW ON THE DEBRIS WERE EMBOSSED ON THE METAL, NOT PRINTED ON TAPE. Mr. Adams, I'm SORRY, but because Dr. Marcel was a child at the time he viewed the materials has no bearing on what it was he saw. Saying additionally that 50 years have elapsed is equally preposterous. Does this mean we have to expect that whatever someone tells us about what happened over 50 years ago is either, not accurate or that because they are so old their memory is suspect? 4. THE DATES OF THE SECRET PROJECT MOGUL BALLOON LAUNCHES DO NOT COINCIDE WITH THE ROSWELL INCIDENT. Whether the launch dates coincide or not is NOT the relevant issue. What is relevant is that Major Jesse Marcel is being portrayed as not having the knowledge to determine the difference between a line of crashed Mogul balloons and a craft that he could not identify. 5. BARRY GOLDWATER TAKES THE "CRASHED SPACESHIP" EXPLANATION VERY SERIOUSLY. Mr. Adams' argument is stating simply that Mr. Goldwater does not have any "personal" knowledge. Unless he can prove to me that he was in or around Roswell, New Mexico in July of 1947, neither does he. Also, before I'm asked, NO, I do NOT have any "firsthand" knowledge of the event. Like Adams, I listen, I observe and I make tentative judgments on the data I compile. 6. GEN. EXON SAYS IT WAS AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRASH WITH BODIES. In answer to Gen. Exon's comments being "hearsay", I simply point out that unless the physical evidence is in one's hand from ANYBODY about Roswell, then what they are discussing is all "hearsay" The interesting argument however is that a top-rank officer of the United States Air Force would publicly say such a thing. Unless one believes the men in positions of high military rank are stupid, you have to give them credit to have sense enough to determine what such statements can and WILL do when issued by people such as themselves. 7. GEN. DUBOSE SAYS THE "WEATHER BALLOON" STORY WAS CONCOCTED ON ORDERS FROM ABOVE. Adams finally agrees with one of the points, however a little nitpicking here as well, unless you have firsthand intelligence of Soviet Flight Operations, it is impossible to predict an "anticipated" Soviet bomb test with ANY type of balloon. You merely detect the radiation after the device has been detonated. The smoking gun in this situation is that General Dubose admits that the story was CHANGED from that which was ORIGINALLY released indicating the "capture" of a "Flying Saucer." 8. FORMER SGT. BOB DEAN SAYS HE SAW A SECRET MEMO SAYING THE MILITARY HAS EVIDENCE OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL SPACECRAFT. Laughing loudly. I'll give you Adams on this one. Unless this "Secret Memo" was sitting in my hand, I'd have to say "Sure you did." I would not be inclined to call someone a liar, however, I might say they stretched the truth a little. However, once again, I would not make too severe a judgment, one way or the other. The movie "Roswell" was a very entertaining piece of fiction that had some basis in FACT. It's those FACTS that need to be examined and those FACTS that will eventually become common knowledge. In examining all of the evidence I've been able to view, read, listen or see, the common question that I ask and have yet to receive an answer to is very simple. WHAT possible MOTIVE could the men & officers of the 409th and the people in and around Roswell, New Mexico have for claiming that a "Flying Saucer" had crashed, and when presented with "evidence" of it being otherwise, perpetuate that rumour to the point of ridicule? My THREE cents again, David (Furry) Furlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Comet Hale-Bopp Set for Dazzling Celestial Display From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:18:08 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:47:06 -0500 Subject: Comet Hale-Bopp Set for Dazzling Celestial Display --------------------- Forwarded message: From: AOLNewsProfiles@aol.net Date: 97-01-23 16:12:31 EST BOULDER, Colo., Jan. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- Alan Hale, the co-discoverer of Comet Hale-Bopp and author of "Everybody's Comet: A Layman's Guide to Comet Hale-Bopp" (High Lonesome Books, 1996), is predicting that the comet will provide astronomy buffs with a spectacular display during the next few months. Hale has been criss-crossing the country to attend interviews, book signings, and star parties as backyard astronomers and never-before stargazers anticipate a stellar astronomical show rivaling last year's event of comet Hyakutake. Widely publicized stories of a UFO following the comet, mostly appearing on the internet, have served to fuel interest in this cosmic event. Hale and other members of the astronomical community have totally debunked these rumors. According to Hale, "Comet Hale-Bopp is surpassing expectations and promises to be quite a show -- in fact, a once in a lifetime opportunity." High Lonesome Books, headquartered in the mountains near Silver City, New Mexico, published "Everybody's Comet" and is now rushing to keep up with orders coming in from across the country and around the world. Since the comet will only be visible for a few months, the book is anticipated to have a short shelf life in bookstores and its printing was limited. "Everybody's Comet" is a history of the comet and a how-to-find-it guide for someone who has never looked at a night sky and is the only book available written by one of the discoverers of this phenomenon. The book contains a Foreword by Thomas Bopp in addition to a Preface by Janet Asimov, and retails for $12.95 in paperback. According to Richard Croog, Director of Marketing at Johnson Books in Boulder, Colorado and distributor for High Lonesome, "this book is the closest a small publisher can come to obtaining a best-seller. While it hasn't made it on the NYT list, consumers can find it in most bookstores throughout the USA and Canada." CO: Johnson Books ST: Colorado IN: PUB SU: PDT Search for other documents from or mentioning: rschatte |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:33:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:46:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Regarding... >Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 23:17:35 -0000 >From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Bob Rickard informed that: >Fortean Times received a notice from Orbital Media Ltd warning us that any unauthorised use of images of the 'cameraman' downloaded from the net or obtained elsewhere would result in legal action. I guess the letter went out to many publications.< Bob, Yes, it seems that's the case. UFO Magazine (UK) also received a pre-emptive letter. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Housekeeping From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:45:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:45:17 -0500 Subject: Housekeeping The coming week will undoubtedly be sparse too - until the move is completed. My apologies, Errol
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 World UFO Network From: Soccorro64@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:54:45 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:48:51 -0500 Subject: World UFO Network Dear Colleagues: The WORLD UFO NETWORK is now publishing a monthly 3-4 page newsletter! Topics include recent UFO reports, alleged conspiracies, and personal experiences in the UFO world. A subscription is free with membership in the Network ( cost: only $5.00 for 5 years! ). Anyone interested should E-mail SOCCORRO64 @ AOL.com. We will send you a complimentary copy of the Newsletter and an application to join the World UFO Network. Thanks. Chris Pittman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 23 Jan 97 19:45:21 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:47:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:47:47 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg Jorgen, >I've been a journalist for 12 years and I have never ever been given >true >answers by being nice and drop a serious question (as I have discovered >to >many times afterwards). My father was a radio newsman after the war and went into TV as soon as there was TV, and was a TV newsman until he retired. He did some hard hitting investigative stories in his day, and was the man who broke the Francis Gary Powers U-2 spy plane shoot down story, and he was one of the first to seriously investigate the periodical UFO "flaps" in Wytheville, Virginia. My mother was a newspaper woman until she retired. I have been in the magazine business for over 20 years, and my 18th book just rolled off the presses this week. So please don't lecture me on journalism. My father, mother, and I have always followed the old "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" philosophy, and it has served us all well. Nothing at all is accomplished by not being nice to people you are interviewing. >What would suggest that there ever was a crashsite at the location you >visited? Wouldn't it be quite "clean-picked" by now? >And how did you come up with a location? From the cameraman? You really haven't been following this story, have you? This is all old news. But I'll go over it one more time. Last year I went out to Socorro to have a look around and see if I could find any local witnesses to anything happening in the area in 1947. Mike Hesemann was out there as well for part of the same time, and we interviewed one eye witness to a fireball which came down on May 31, 1947 together. I wanted to try and find the crash site, so I called Ray and he called Jack. He had jack on one line and me on another. He relayed detailed instructions to me on where the crash had happened. I tried for two days to locate the place he described, but so many of his landmarks were no longer there that I could not be sure that I had the right road. I think he is describing a place on the southeast edge of the Plains of San Agustin, since he specifically refers to a dry lake bed and the only dry lake beds anyone around the area know of are in this region. I hope to get more detailed directions from Jack face to face at some point and return to the area and try again to find the site. After the military's cleanup I do not expect to find any debris, but would like to pinpoint the crash location as accurately as possible. >If you earn so much money, why expressing your sadness of not being paid >enough and in need of publishers money? I believe in being paid for what I do, and do not plan to put any more money out of my pocket into this research. This is only a peripheral sideline to me, not my life. BTW, if you consider that a lot of money, maybe you are in the wrong line of work. >Wouldn't it seem more "upright/honest" to not take money from the man >(Ray >Santili) you're supposed to investigate and give us the truth about in >your >upcoming book? - as you seem to be able to afford it. Maybe you have some aversion to making money. I don't. I took no vow of poverty (nor chastity!!!). Ray asked me to look into the crash site and said he would reimburse some of my expenses if I did. Otherwise I probably would not have made the trip. Ray doesn't know if Jack is telling the truth or not, or if the film is real or not, and he hoped I could find verification of at least one part of Jack's story. I think all of this pathological interest in who made how much money is silly, and not likely to lead to answers to anything. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Bentwaters latest From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:03:47 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:49:42 -0500 Subject: Bentwaters latest From the East Anglian Daily Times Date: Friday January 24, 1997 BENTWATERS: A new airport could be set up at the redundant Bentwaters air base following a series of top-secret discussions involving the prospective new buyers, the EADT can reveal today. The prospect of planes returning to the huge former American air base is back on the agenda after Bentwaters Investments Ltd started negotiations with aviation enthusiasts. The company has also been in contact with Ipswich MP Jamie Cann and it is understood that he has recently visited the site.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Rosell, Paul Davids & Cecil Adams From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:56:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:50:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Rosell, Paul Davids & Cecil Adams > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:38:13 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Rosell, Paul Davids & Cecil Adams > >From: Ndunlks@aol.com > >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:38:36 -0500 (EST) > >To: iufo@world.std.com > >Subject: IUFO: Producer of Roswell Movie Responds to Straight Dope > >SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List > >Cecil Adams replied: > >I think the word you're looking for in your last paragraph is "humility," not > >"hubris." But let's not nitpick. > >I have attempted to address some of the contentions in your letter below. [snip] > 2. THE MILITARY DESTROYED KEY DOCUMENTS RELATING TO THE CASE WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION. > It is WELL documented that official information from the era of >1947 concerning Roswell is not forthcoming and that even when >congressmen or senators request such information, they get >stonewalled or receive documents with so much of them blacked >out that they are virtually useless. [snip] David, I, as well as the list, would be very interested in seeing the 1947 document or documents which have been blacked out so as to be virtually useless. Would you please supply this lead? It would be a great help. Thank you Jan Aldrich Project 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:58:20 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:51:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? David Furlotte wrote: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:34:41 -0500 [...] >Mac and Bob, >Sorry to interject here on your theorizing of the alien bodies recovered at >Roswell, but I simply am beginning to feel like the guy that's sitting at >the back of the class while everyone else is nodding and agreeing with the >teacher at the front. >My hand would be up and when I got noticed, I would simply say >"EXCUSE me, But is anyone ELSE in here having a problem with THIS?" >Gentlemen, before we go on theorizing about WHAT these things are in the >"supposed footage" of the Alien autopsy, perhaps we should try verifying the >authenticity of the creatures as being something that were NOT created by us >(humans) to dupe other humans. I thought all of the comments pertaining to this were well-presented as cautious _speculation_. I have no idea what could possibly be wrong with this. Indeed, "off the wall" theorizing can sometimes be rewarding and lead to new areas of testable inquiry. [snip] >To come back to my previous point, I simply feel that your efforts would be >better spent in trying to determine if the film is REAL or NOT, before >making suppositions on WHAT type of creature, either "manufactured" or >"space monkey" or "Robot" that the "Aliens", or our FUTURE generations might >have sent us. Bob Shell has, based on my understanding, more or less spearheaded the bulk of the hands-on investigation you allude to. I agree entirely that the Santilli footage has yet to be proven genuine or fake, but who in his right mind _wouldn't_? There is absolutely nothing wrong with speculation; to demean it is to cheapen the very investigative process you take pains to endorse. **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:49:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:53:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:34:41 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:24:32 -0600 (CST) >>From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >>To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >>Subject: On "temponauts," etc. >>Bob Shell writes (1/22/97): >Mac and Bob, >Sorry to interject here on your theorizing of the alien bodies recovered at >Roswell, but I simply am beginning to feel like the guy that's sitting at >the back of the class while everyone else is nodding and agreeing with the >teacher at the front. >Gentlemen, before we go on theorizing about WHAT these things are in the >"supposed footage" of the Alien autopsy, perhaps we should try verifying the >authenticity of the creatures as being something that were NOT created by us >(humans) to dupe other humans. <snipped> >David (Furry) Furlotte David - I couldn't have said it better myself! This is a major problem throughout the whole UFO-field. When things can't be verified as genuine or not people start to act as it doesn't matter and get around to verifying details in the "unspecific" photo, film etc. I think we all need to freshen up here and get tougher. Always start at the beginning and if you can't verify the cause of the case, everything afterwards is plausability. Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:01:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:52:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:16:00 -0500 (EST) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Autopsy Cameraman photos >I think those good people at missing persons should put his face on the side >of a milk carton, or something along those lines. Mass mailings to the Tampa >area? Why do you suggest Tampa? Because Florida in particular has been mentioned a lot? I'm sure something could be arranged that would not infringe on Mr. Santilli's copyright -- but let's get the right area. Why couldn't sketches and/or computer imaging be done from the video of the cameraman? Is there some sort of copyright violation from doing an artist's rendition of the image? Robert Kiviat was on television here in December -- the Leeza program. On that program he stated that he could not even show the video copy of the interview that he had to anyone because Santilli did not have permission from the cameraman because the video showed the cameraman's face to clearly. Does anyone know when this program on Japanese TV ran -- was it December or January? Is it just me or does it seem like somebody is not being honest? Either Kiviat was not telling the truth in December or Santilli was not being honest with Kiviat. He had to have sold the video to the Japanese by December, if it was broadcast recently. There is something fishy about this entire thing -- and it is getting fishier by the minute. And why would the cameraman send a video to Santilli that was useless? Why didn't the cameraman give his son some of his famous photography tips -- you know, how not film a face or how to go out of focus, etc? Has anyone heard from the Japanese what the audio portion of the interview said? I know Bob Shell and Michael Hesemann were bound to some sort of confidentiality agreement to not discuss what the heard on the video but now that the video has been shown couldn't they talk about it? How long was the interview that Bob Shell saw in Santilli's office? Anyone who cares to speculate or knows any of the answers to some of the questions are encouraged to reply. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 BWW Media Alert 970123 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:40:20 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:54:20 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970123 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) January 23, 1997 This is an exciting week for me! STRANGE UNIVERSE is scheduled to run a story on OPUS** on Friday, January 31st (check local listings or http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area). I'm an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. I think I'll be in the piece, although one never knows. If I am, you'll spot me. It's my first national television bit (not counting that time I was on the news...ask, and I'll tell you ;) ). Also, my KHBG radio piece is getting back on track...I'll be on Tuesday morning. I'm covering THE YEAR IN WEIRD 1996, so that means I need to get that ready and those of you on the list will get your first BUFO'S WEIRD WORLD of 1997! As to other folks (see, I'm not =totally= self-centered :) ), THE LEARNING CHANNEL does a "castle ghosts" marathon (three episodes) on Sunday starting at 4:00 pm, and a "strange science" marathon on Sunday, starting at 1:00 pm (5 shows) CONFERENCES, LECTURES, AND MEETINGS This is new as a regular feature. Please e-mail me anything you want listed. Be sure to include the speaker or topic where applicable, place, date, time, cost, and an e-mail. Btw, I'm considering doing this only once a month, and covering a month at a time. You need more leeway for this sort of thing. Saturday, January 25th, A DAY OF DISCOVERY, Shelbourne Hotel, Lord Street West, Southport, speakers include: Jenny Randles; Ananda Sirisena; Nick Nicholson; and Tony James. Admission is 10 pounds. For more info, call Steve Meads at 01524 381520 or 01995 600186 Thursday, 1/30, weekly meeting of SHIFT at 7:30 pm, 25 Waverly Place, Hillsborough, CA, no charge: digdinos@aol.com PERIODICALS (magazines, newsletters, etc.) SKEPTICAL INQUIRER (January/February 1997). I've got to say, I've been reading this mag lately, and while I certainly don't agree with everything (and some of it is less well-informed and snootier than I like), it certainly gives you your money's worth! This time, major articles include THE X-FILES MEETS THE SKEPTICS (Chris Carter at the CSICOP convention); THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MILLENIUM by Lee Loevinger; QUANTUM QUACKERY by Victor J. Stenger; BIAS AND ERROR IN CHILDREN'S NONFICTION BOOKS ON THE PARANORMAL by Richard Wiseman and Clive Jeffreys; and THE MYSTERIOUS PLACEBO by John E. Dodes. Columns cover everything from Jean Houston to alien implants, to John Swift having invented bigfoot. See the website at http://www.csicop.org for more info. Tell 'em Bufo sent you. UFO REALITY: This is my first look at this British mag, and it's certainly at odds with the previous listing :). It's very nicely done, all slick and graphically rich. It should particularly interest my readers who are subscribers to SKYWATCH (if you're not, and you don't mind 10 posts approx. a day, write to the Colonel at skywatch@wic.net, and tell him Bufo sent you). Articles this time include: EXCLUSIVE!!! NIGHTMARE ON SALISBURY PLAIN (this is a weird one...Brit soldiers ordered to march in a field at night see a UFO, get zapped by a beam...and encounter what appears to be a U.S. soldier involved in the operation) by Jon King; STAR KNOWLEDGE by Richard Boylan, PhD.; COSMIC TOP SECRET: A CONVERSATION WITH ROBERT O. DEAN; THE WALLINGTON UFO VIDEO; THE TERRY WALTERS STORY; CZECH CROP CIRCLES; NICK POPE (author of OPEN SKIES, CLOSED MINDS*) IN THE MODE OF TRITE; JON KING'S X-FILE DOCUMENT (about underground bases). If you're into the idea of government cover-up, and/or like lots of pictures of UFOs, this is a good one. Subscription is $30 US, $45 elsewhere from Orion Marketing, Dept BC, 1807 Cold Springs Road, Liverpool, NY 13090, USA. That gets you a year (six issues). Please tell 'em Bufo sent you! FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see the excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http:\\www\cninews.com. PICKET FENCES on FX on Tuesday, 1/28/97 at 11:00 PM has the SIGHTINGS episode, linking a body to UFOs. The Comedy Channel runs the episode of SOAP where Burt sees a UFO (almost every sitcom has had a UFO episode...how many can you name?) on Friday at 2:00 pm. SHIP TO SHORE on NICKELODEON sees Mabbs get hooked on a phone psychic on Sunday at 3:00 pm. Also on Nick, CLARISSA EXPLAINS IT ALL does another classic sitcom bit, where someone believes they have paranormal powers (Wed. at 6:00 PM). PACIFIC BLUE on USA on Sunday at 8:00 pm has the Bike Patrol consulting a psychic to crack a case. SHELLY DUVALL'S BEDTIME STORIES on Showtime 2 on Sunday at 3:45 am (there are kids watching then?!...I know, it's because of the time zones) adapts LITTLE TOOT & THE LOCH NESS MONSTER. Disney is running CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND on Wednesday at 9:00 pm. MAGIC IN THE WATER is on Showtime on Friday at 11:45 AM (talk about your heavy rotation). RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE: I'm working on getting listings in time to run them here. Seems like a nice guy with a lot of good guests. Check out the website for stations and guest info http://www.endoftheline.com). Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: A mother's intuition leads her to rescue her son. PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --week of 1/20 (new episode): DEVIL'S TRIANGLE (a Bermuda Triangle thing), and ANASAZI CAVE (trouble at an archeological dig) --week of 1/27 (new episode): THE UNDEAD (zombies in the inner city?); STALKER (a horror film actress is being stalked...but is the fan alive?) Saturday, January 25 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Gilber Walking Bull, Lakota Elder. 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, DRAGONS, DINOSAURS & GIANT SNAKES 4:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF IRELAND (a silver-hoofed horse, a headless ghost, and thou) 5:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF SCOTLAND (The Green Lady, the Phantom Piper, and the Chevy two-door ((just kidding on that last one)) ) 6:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, CASTLE GHOSTS OF ENGLAND Sunday, January 19 LOCAL RADIO, 1220 CHSC AM in St. Catharines, Ontario (and available via Internet), THE "X" SHOW: Rob McConnell interviews Michael Langevin, Publisher of MAGICAL BLEND magazine. Check the website at www.xchonicles.com for more info (like airtime...) SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews Michael DeLuca about dream interpretation (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058): THE WATCHERS (Gulf Breeze UFOs); LIFE BEFORE LIFE; GHOSTS OF CHILLINGHAM CASTLE; LAB OF CONSCIOUSNESS 1:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS - STRANGE SCIENCE WEEK, SECRET WORLD OF DREAMS 2:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, WHAT IF? EXTRATERRESTRIAL CONTACT (I don't know if this really fits, but it talks about Roswell...) 2:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS - STRANGE SCIENCE WEEK, ALIEN HAND (not about ETs...it's when your hand does what it wants) 3:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS - STRANGE SCIENCE WEEK, UFO 4:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY, UFOS: THE FIRST ENCOUNTERS (ancient UFO sightings) 4:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS - STRANGE SCIENCE WEEK, THE UNEXPLAINED 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058): THE WATCHERS (Gulf Breeze UFOs); LIFE BEFORE LIFE; GHOSTS OF CHILLINGHAM CASTLE; LAB OF CONSCIOUSNESS 5:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: CANNIBALISM 5:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, SCIENCE FRONTIERS - STRANGE SCIENCE WEEK, WOLFMAN - THE MYTH AND THE SCIENCE 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, INTO THIN AIR (vanishing buildings...kind of like all those full-service gas stations you used to see...) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5058): THE WATCHERS (Gulf Breeze UFOs); LIFE BEFORE LIFE; GHOSTS OF CHILLINGHAM CASTLE; LAB OF CONSCIOUSNESS Monday, January 27 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: firefighter's manual features section on UFOs (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (#13): CREATING THE ILLUSION (stage magic); ON PINS AND NEEDLES (acupuncture); LOOKING FOR LOVE Tuesday, January 28 LOCAL RADIO: KHBG in Healdsburg, California, I'll be on it in the morning around 7:00 am, doing THE YEAR IN WEIRD 1996 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Virgin Mary teaches woman to paint (next week, Buddha teaches basket weaving!)(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, MONTEL WILLIAMS: psychic Sylvia Brown 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#14): SKEPTIC SOCIETY; INTER-SPECIES COMMUNICATION; FENG SHUI 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, STRANGE POWERS OF ANIMALS Wednesday, January 29 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: cajun folk-healers (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) BRITISH TV NOTE: FORTEAN TV premieres on Channel 4 (it comes on before ER) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES & MIRACLES (#15): SEANCES; DREAM THERAPY; and THE GHOST AND MRS. VIEWER (find ghosts in your house) 7:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5054): no details available 11:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5054): no details available Thursday, January 30 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: 81 year old special effects artist (hey, just about anything you do at 81 is a special effect ;) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#16): THE MAGIC CASTLE; THE APHRODISIAC CONNECTION; GALACTIC HUMANS 10:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: ESP, DREAMS AND DISASTERS Friday, December 31 ################################ SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: this is it...the OPUS** episode!!! (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) ################################### 2:00 AM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: ESP, DREAMS, AND DISASTERS 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#17): WALK THROUGH FIRE; STAR-GAZING; SEX, SCANDAL AND DEATH IN HOLLYWOOD This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Books can be ordered directly over the Internet from the STRANGE MAGAZINE website at http://www.strangemag.com. =Please= tell them Bufo sent you. This is not a paid ad, but I do get something if you order and mention me. Also, it's a great site and you'll be helping to support one of the best mags out there! And I'm not saying that just because I'm a Contributing Editor :) . ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Jan 97 11:57:02 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:56:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:24:44 -0600 (CST) >From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Autopsy Cameraman photos I was very surprised to see the posted note from Bob Rickard. I find it very hypocritical of Rickard to deride Ray Santilli for asserting his copyright over images from a video which he paid for. Yes, the cameraman has said he will not do any interviews or anything else without payment, and this "interview" was paid for. Ray Santilli has considered this a commercial venture from the beginning, and has never claimed otherwise. If Rickard really feels that all important information like this should be in the public domain, then I suggest that his publisher should cease copyrighting Fortean Times and make all information freely available to the UFO community to use as any of us see fit. More to the point, all subscriptions should be free, and distribution of the magazine at news agents should be free as well. This particular knife cuts both ways, you know. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Alfred's Odd Ode # 82 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:36:19 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:55:28 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode # 82 Apology to MW #82 (For January 24, 1997) To investigate this full time. . . With a travel budget set . . . Flying coach, where food ain't bad A traveling man I met. Well no, he'd never seen one, But his little brother had. It swooped quick down, and touched his head, The feeling not half bad. He then said he was kidding, A harmless little joke. A little laugh inside his mind, A harmless giggle -- funny poke. He wondered smart, with half a frown, "Hey friend, how come you're not smiling?" "You don't believe this stuff, it's all a bluff!" ". . .Frenzied whacko's fringy profiling." I said "yeah sure, most likely true" And looked outside the aircraft, Where stars that glowed with strange appeal Warmed spirit's searing backdraft. Between them was not blackness Though the space was dark as pitch. A trick of narrowed light with distance But physic's _made_ a bitch. Between them's found just *anything* All that's covered with the mind. And much, much more than can be held 'Twixt ears mere humankind. The traveling man? He prattled on. He made a lot on flying. High and wide, "like a god" he said. He did not think of dying. Of space between those dim hard stars, He's not so good at thinking. The shadows there are scary spots, They could be cruel or "stinking." They make one ask the scary questions. They make one think on ones own life. They make one wonder if they're worthful. Or do they cause more pain, and strife! So it's best to keep untended Those spots that interfere With the white bread way of thinking, False caressed by cultures beer. And then proud light retreats from view -- From the shadows that are dreaded. Those shadows grow, and smother well . . . It's then that we're beheaded. And working long, hard vicious jobs For the manor lord, *God's* vicar. . . Crushed and ruled at the whim of some *church* Please kill me now, it's quicker. The travelin' man kept jaws hard working -- Told a 'nigger' joke or three; And I wondered at his ignorance; And I wondered that while free. 'Cause outside of the airplane Where the mind is free to roam. The multiverse is my caress, It's where I'll feel at home. Lehmberg@snowhill.com I anticipate being able to see humankind as they have recorded it. I predict laughter and tears. Lot's of both. And I'll bet we get through it. I'm betting we learn! Not what the aliens would teach us so much, but what we would learn once we could see it _all_ unvarnished, undigested, and sequential. . .
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BGBOPPER@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:44:01 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:57:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 23:17:35 -0000 > From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Fortean Times received a notice from Orbital Media Ltd warning us that > any unauthorised use of images of the 'cameraman' downloaded from the net > or obtained elsewhere would result in legal action. I guess the letter > went out to many publications. > We will of course comply as we have no wish to flout the laws of > copyright, but we deplore, generally, a situation in which data that can > help clear up the complex mysteries that abound in ufology today are > commercial property. It makes genuine research and progress towards > answers and understanding very difficult. Bob, I find the copyright of the Santilli autopsy film raises some interesting questions. 1. How do you copyright stolen material? If in fact the film is real would it not be the property of the U.S. Govt. ? Or does a "Finders, Keepers" rule govern British copyrights? 2. If in fact Santilli purchased the film from a U.S. Govt. photographer, was that "Recieving stolen goods?" 3. Was the film abandoned by the U.S. Govt. and left in the hands of a military photographer (which is pretty hard to believe considering the importance of the event) and would it then fall under some international salvage law? Hmmmmmmmmm??? just some questions to ponder! R. Estes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:27:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:58:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:48:00 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:36:03 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>>I've never seen the misidentification hypothesis formally >>>presented but I'm sure there are folks who think that >>>misidentification answers everything. >>>That's kind of silly since the majority of observers are casual >>>and untrained ......... >>JC: If I may tweak the terminology a bit. I believe the last >>sentenceshould probably say: "..... since the majority of >>"reporters" are casual and untrained." >Observers or reporters, same thing. ....snip.... JC: Not if you read what Dr. Hynek said. I was just trying to point out that many excellent observers do not report their sightings. Some of those observers are quite well trained. >>>How does one turn the Pascagoula case into a misidentification <grin>? >>JC: Good question. I have a friend that was raised in that >>general vicinity that would definitely ask the same thing. >That was mostly a rhetorical question <grin>, but I'd like to hear >what an 'insider' has to say about it. JC: I apologize for bringing it up as I'll breach a confidence with this person, and receive flak from skeptics as well, no matter what else I say. However, having talked to people in the area, said person is now fairly well convinced that case was true. Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Stanton Friedman: The Coverup From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:27:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:11:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanton Friedman: The Coverup >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:59:06 -0500 >From: Ashley Rye <106064.3617@compuserve.com> >Subject: Stanton Friedman: The Coverup >To: In_Search_of <In_Search_of@primenet.com> > >======== >Let's ask Stanton Friedman if it is possible for the government to >completely cover up a story as earth-shaking as extraterrestrials? ....snip.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Ashley, thanks for posting this. Stan, your comments were right "on the money" and important for people to realize. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:10:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:10:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg ebk ______________________________________________ Date: 23 Jan 97 19:45:21 EST From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:47:47 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bob Shell & Volker Spielberg Jorgen, >I've been a journalist for 12 years and I have never ever been given true >answers by being nice and drop a serious question (as I have discovered >to >many times afterwards). ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- My father was a radio newsman after the war and went into TV as soon as there was TV, and was a TV newsman until he retired. He did some hard hitting investigative stories in his day, and was the man who broke the Francis Gary Powers U-2 spy plane shoot down story, and he was one of the first to seriously investigate the periodical UFO "flaps" in Wytheville, Virginia. My mother was a newspaper woman until she retired. I have been in the magazine business for over 20 years, and my 18th book just rolled off the presses this week. So please don't lecture me on journalism. My father, mother, and I have always followed the old "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" philosophy, and it has served us all well. Nothing at all is accomplished by not being nice to people you are interviewing. ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- >What would suggest that there ever was a crashsite at the location you >visited? Wouldn't it be quite "clean-picked" by now? >And how did you come up with a location? From the cameraman? ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- You really haven't been following this story, have you? This is all old news. But I'll go over it one more time. Last year I went out to Socorro to have a look around and see if I could find any local witnesses to anything happening in the area in 1947. Mike Hesemann was out there as well for part of the same time, and we interviewed one eye witness to a fireball which came down on May 31, 1947 together. I wanted to try and find the crash site, so I called Ray and he called Jack. He had jack on one line and me on another. He relayed detailed instructions to me on where the crash had happened. I tried for two days to locate the place he described, but so many of his landmarks were no longer there that I could not be sure that I had the right road. I think he is describing a place on the southeast edge of the Plains of San Agustin, since he specifically refers to a dry lake bed and the only dry lake beds anyone around the area know of are in this region. I hope to get more detailed directions from Jack face to face at some point and return to the area and try again to find the site. After the military's cleanup I do not expect to find any debris, but would like to pinpoint the crash location as accurately as possible. ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- >If you earn so much money, why expressing your sadness of not being paid >enough and in need of publishers money? ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- I believe in being paid for what I do, and do not plan to put any more money out of my pocket into this research. This is only a peripheral sideline to me, not my life. BTW, if you consider that a lot of money, maybe you are in the wrong line of work. ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- >Wouldn't it seem more "upright/honest" to not take money from the man >(Ray >Santili) you're supposed to investigate and give us the truth about in >your >upcoming book? - as you seem to be able to afford it. ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- Maybe you have some aversion to making money. I don't. I took no vow of poverty (nor chastity!!!). Ray asked me to look into the crash site and said he would reimburse some of my expenses if I did. Otherwise I probably would not have made the trip. Ray doesn't know if Jack is telling the truth or not, or if the film is real or not, and he hoped I could find verification of at least one part of Jack's story. ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- I think all of this pathological interest in who made how much money is silly, and not likely to lead to answers to anything. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 DISPATCH #37 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:23:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:52:32 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH #37 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #37 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 1/24/97 Quote of the Week "There were distinguishing characteristics in Clinton's genital area that were obvious to Jones." --Item 22 of Jones v. Clinton complaint (CIVIL ACTION NO. LR-C-94-290) filed May 6, 1994, US District court for the Eastern District of Kansas, Western Division, from ParaScope's Clinton Scandal Archives in the Dossier section. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ New Feature: Rant of the Week! You know, folks, we get lots of mail here at the 'Scope. Most of it is about stories we've already covered or are currently investigating. Some of it is great stuff, tipping us off to a juicy new lead. Rest assured we read it all. But this week, we'd like to add a new feature to the Dispatch. A way to share the best of the weirdest of the mail we get. We call it "Rant of the Week," and to qualify, a letter must shock, annoy, amaze, delight or mystify our editorial staff. Trust us, it's not easy to shock the jaded ParaScope staff, a group of folks who investigate conspiracies, alien abductions and unexplained phenomena all day, every day. With great pride, we present our very first Rant of the Week: Dear ParaScope, We are having a very difficult time knowing what to do next or what is going to happen next, and how this situation will unfold itself. The surrounding situation is that in May of 1995 I learned that I may be John Kennedys daughter as a result of his marriage to [name delted] In 1942+ Joe Sr. Had the marriage annualled before John and Jackie Married. In Sept of 1996 I learned that after John was assassinated that a man that entered my life, who is probably the father of my oldest dauthter was vary likely the Assassin hired by the CIA to Assassinate John. I have spent a year and a half resurching and asking questions. I am also mailing to significant personalities, currently to those involved in the attempt to expose the conspiricy theory. We are being harrassed at every level, and thru the phone. I can't afford to spend money for a reading. My girlfriend found a spot on the net she thinks under Schamanism where you can ask a yes or not question and it will give a yes or no answer. She asked it if I were Johns daughter the button stated yes. She asked if the man a Knew was the assassin and the light or button shined yes again. I need to find that area desparatly. I am disabled and live in poverty. I have not beenable to reconnect with my phone Psychics due to the enourmous cost and my lack of money. Can you help me find this location. [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names withheld to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Celebrity Sightings -- WIN A CD ROM GAME! Lots of folks have seen a UFO. Lots of folks have seen big-time show-business celebrities. But how many folks can say they've seen a celebrity who's seen a UFO?! We're looking to "make contact" with famous people who've claimed close encounters, and we need your help in deciding which ones to approach first. If you know of a celebrity who's had a close encounter, or even expressed an interest in UFOs, send us what you know and you may win a CD-ROM game from Sierra On-Line games. We'll pick the best entry based on our professional opinion, and notify the winner via e-mail. Send your celebrity UFO sighting stories to: parascope@aol.com with the words "celebrity sighting" in the subject line. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Survey Says...! Do you believe in curses? Is Fox's "Millennium" on a par with "The X-Files?" Is there a conspiratorial ruling elite in America? Who are the "men in black" and what do they want? Will artificial intelligence rival the human brain in our lifetime? Do you believe in fate? These questions (and others like them) are the subject of daily debate in ParaScope's interactive ParaPoll. Check the ParaScope site for a daily poll question, and find out what others have said about previous poll topics. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week a daily basis on America Online, or next Thursday on the web site! Monday, Jan 27: Alien Autopsy Cameraman Video Still The world of UFO investigations has swirled with threats of a lawsuit over a single image. Fortean Times won't publish the photo, but ParaScope will! A controversial videotape has surfaced containing a brief interview with the purported cameraman who filmed the "Alien Autopsy" film. This video, which was supposed to have been filmed as a silhouette, shows the famed "Army cameraman" in plain detail. ParaScope's Nebula brings you the man Ray Santilli claims was the Army cameraman who filmed the supposed autopsy of an extraterrestrial creature retrieved from the Roswell crash. ----------------------------- Tuesday, Jan 28: Clinton Scandal Archive II You thought we covered it all in last week's Clinton Scandal Archive Inaugural Special Edition? Think again! Only the man they call "Slick Willie" could fill two (count 'em: TWO) big stories with crimes, conspiracies and cover-ups. Take a wild ride on the Whitewater. Go on an all-expenses-paid trip through Travelgate. Sneak a peek inside the Filegate files. It's all here in black and white from the original archives courtesy ParaScope's Dossier section. ----------------------------- Wednesday, Jan 29: Like an Egyptian "All the kids in the marketplace say/Ay oh whey oh, ay oh whey oh/Walk like an Egyptian." The Bangles sang about...well, who knows, something about walking like an Egyptian. But secret and mysterious knowledge of an ancient and fabulous power seems to be what the "kids in the marketplace" are going for today. Suddenly, the creepy secrets of ancient Egyptian priests are a bankable commodity, from the Luxor hotel and casino in Las Vegas to the Rosicrucian Order in San Jose. ParaScope's special report will take you behind the scenes at both of these hip centers of nouvelle Egyptology and reveal what the new fascination with Funky Tut is all about. ----------------------------- Thursday, Jan 30: The Randi Challenge Are you ready to take the Randi Challenge? The Amazing Randi, confounder of psychics the world over, is offering a cash reward of more than $1,000,000 -- that's right, a million bucks -- to anyone who can PROVE a paranormal event. The reward skyrocketed after Randi began taking pledges from the public, and the stakes are literally higher than ever for anyone who can provide hard, substantial evidence that they have had a bona fide paranormal experience. Find out how you can make a pledge...or sign up for the challenge, if you're up to it! ----------------------------- Friday, Jan 31: Everybody Wants to Rule the World Wacky fictional villains like Marvel Comics despot Dr. Doom or James Bond nemesis Goldfinger wanted to rule the world because they were basically evil and crazy. Today's real-life global elite want to rule the world (or do they already?) because, well, hey, somebody's got to! If you think it's hard working full time, running a business or raising a family, try running the world. The headaches are tremendous. "Useless eaters" multiply by the day, depleting the world's food, oil and minerals. Luckily, a cadre of global elites (including such former power-wielders as Mikhail Gorbachev, Jean Bertrand Aristide and Shimon Peres) are here to rule the world for us. Trust them! They know what's best. Find out what they have on tap in this special report. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Join the Revolution Can you smell it? It's the smell of fear! The corporations, power-brokers and media moguls are running scared as the populist masses take their case to the web in a digital revolution that is changing the planet. The propaganda war is already underway, and ParaScope is fighting for you! Join the crusade. --------------- Web Wizard/Java Jockey Wanted Can you program Perl like a hyperactive squirrel? Does working with Ticl seldom leave you in a pickle? Do find CGI as easy as pie? When it comes to flowing programming code, does your java run like molten lava? If you answered yes to these questions, then we want you to help us make our web-site slick, cool, easy-to-use, state of the art, and a hell of a lot of fun. Send us your name and a little information about yourself so we can give your life meaning by making you part of the ParaScope team. (Your application need not rhyme!) Send your web programming qualifications and personal data to parascope@aol.com with "web help" in the subject line. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Emory U. President Wants Posts Re: Courtney Brown From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:32:51 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:20:50 -0500 Subject: Emory U. President Wants Posts Re: Courtney Brown News: Dr. W.Chace, president of Emory U. has indicated that he has email, and wants to read posts re Courtney Brown, past, present and future posts. His email is: WCHACE@EMORY.EDU
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Planes Over Trinity From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jan 97 11:11:22 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:21:48 -0500 Subject: Planes Over Trinity I may have stumbled over verification of Theresa Carlson's research on whether there were actually aircraft flying over Trinity during the first test of the Atomic Bomb. In James Gleick's book _Genius, The Life and Science of Richard Feynman_, about 1/3rd of the way through (I was listening to the book on tape during rush hour traffic), the author states that Feynman was in charge of an experiment during the test which required that he receive a calibration signal from the "observation plane". Minutes before the experiment, Richard had not yet received the planes signal and resorted to calibrating on a distant broadcast radio station. Satisfied that he was adequately calibrated he had given up on the plane when, suddenly, the plane's signal came through. Seems they had been delayed in taking off due to inclimate weather. Anyone can check this out at their local library. Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Project 1947 - UFO Sighting, Oct. 1796 From: Don Ledger <dledger@ISTAR.CA> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 15:47:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:22:51 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - UFO Sighting, Oct. 1796 Hello PRO-47 list One of the earliest accounts of a UFO sighting in North America might have been over the Minas Basin, Nova Scotia at the head of the Bay of Fundy. A Loyalist merchant and judge from the Town of Liverpool,N.S., named Simeon Perkins (1735-1812) kept a diary of certain events. This was eventually published,by the Champlain Society in Toronto consisting of three volumns, between 1947 and 1961. In the third volumn there is an entry dated Wednesday, 12 October-1796. It reads: A Strange Story is going that a fleet of ships have been Seen in the Air in Some part of the Bay of Fundy. Mr. Darrow is lately from there by Land. I enquired of him. He Say thet the were Said to be Seen at New Minas, at one Mr. Ratchford's, by a Girl about Sunrise, and that the girl being frightened Called out and two men that were in the House went out and Saw the Same Sight, being 15 Ships and a Man forward of them with his hand Streached out. The Ships made to the Eastward. They were So Near that the people Saw their Sides and ports. The Story did not obtain universal credit* but Some people believed it.My Own Opinion is that it was only in Imagination, as the Cloud at Sunrise might Make Some Such appearence, which being Improved by Imagination might be all they Saw. Exceeding pleasent day and Evening. *I guess some things never change. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Project 1947 - Fu-go Balloons From: James Easton <100626.2242@COMPUSERVE.COM> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:57:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:24:02 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Fu-go Balloons The following, recent CompuServe posting may be of interest: To all Forum members, I took the advice of Mr. Easton and posted a message about the Japanese fu-go balloons in the military section of the History Forum here on Compuserve. Today I was very pleased to get a reply from someone who really knew about this! The fu-go balloons are described in a book called: Silent Siege III: Japanese Attacks on North America in WWII The author's name is Webber (no first name was given). The book is available from: Zenith Books P.O. Box 1 Osceola, WI 54020-0001 1-800-826-6600 The price is $28.95. I don't know if that includes shipping charges, but I'll find out. There is also an E-mail address: mbibks@win.bright.net I plan to order a copy, and if there are pictures of the debris you get when these things explode, I'll be sure to let everyone know what it looks like. -Tom Garber Tom also mentioned that: Yesterday I looked at an article in the June 4, 1945 issue of Newsweek about those Japanese fu-go balloons. It was really just a few paragraphs, and the title was "Mustn't Touch." It said that previously the military had been keeping the existence of these a secret, but their present opinion was that it was better to tell everyone even if just one American life was saved. (By the way, it said they were 33 feet in diameter. That's about what I had calculated from John Keel's description of 19,000 cubic feet of gas inside the balloons.) [End] I have seen three differing versions of the fu-go balloons' success rate: 1. About 9000 were sent, but "only a few" reached the US. 2. There were 9,300 launches from November 1944 to May 1945, with 300 reaching mainland America. 3. They were launched in considerable numbers, around 1,000 of them successfully making the journey across the Pacific and impacting on American soil. Whatever the true figure, presumably some of these would have given rise to reports of aerial phenomena, and not only in the US! James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com WWW; http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pulsar/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Project 1947 - Re: Fugo Balloons From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:37:18 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:27:22 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: Fugo Balloons Hi James and all: Re: Fugo Balloons. Apparently, many of the Japanese Balloon Bomb records were destroyed. US military intelligence estimated about 9000 were launched. They recovered about 300 during the war. Some were still being found into the late 1950s. There are a number of articles and books or parts of books written on this aspect of the war. The National Archives has a number of files on these--the biggest being the Western Defense Command (WDC) files which I looked at. There are indeed some UFO-like reports here, also. The Fugo balloon reached about as far east as Michigan, Ohio, etc. A number were intercepted by US and Canadian Air Forces. A Russian convoy on the way to the US shoot down a number of these balloons. The public many times reported Venus as Japanese Balloon Bomb. The WDC published (as did the Canadians) a weekly bulletin with sightings and recoveries. Sightings were not of much concern to the WDC. The important thing was recoveries. There are a number of other Fugo Balloon files, one at the Library of Congress which is on microfilm--which I will get after two year attack of laziness. There are also files at Maxwell AFB. I also suspect that there are some at Carlisle Barracks. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 AF Major & hot UFO docs From: elaine26@juno.com (Elaine M Douglass) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:11:32 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:25:08 -0500 Subject: AF Major & hot UFO docs Gentlemen: Re geospen's report to us of a CNN news story Jan 15, 230 am, to effect AF major left her top secret post to go public with hot UFO documents--I have made some inquiries. I reached a nice young lady named Pamela at CNN (404-827-0234) who said she remembered that story. She referred me to Video Monitoring, a NY company. There, a nice young man named Larry (212-857-7118) tells me he searched for the key words 'Air Force' and 'UFO' between the dates Jan 14 and Jan 19. First he searched CNN Headline News and found nothing. Then he searched all cable and network broadcasts for that period and found nothing. So I called Pamela back, and said, Are you sure you remember this story? She says yes. I told her what Video MOnitoring said. She said, OK, talk to CNN's in-house library (404-827-1335) and tell them "Pamela sent you." Called Friday, got a recording and left message. Guys, I have to go out of town tomorrow; cann't pursue this now. Feel it would be efficacious if one of you would take up the inquiry at CNN's in-house. Let me know. Elaine Douglass
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:46:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:26:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:58:20 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: Roswell bodies and speculation >I thought all of the comments pertaining to this were well-presented as >cautious _speculation_. I have no idea what could possibly be wrong with this. >Indeed, "off the wall" theorizing can sometimes be rewarding and lead to new >areas of testable inquiry. Mac, I agree that everything presented was of course "cautious speculation". However, cautious speculation about something that is not proven one way or another can be extremely confusing and sometimes dangerous. To illustrate this point I refer to Orson Welle's fictional radio play "War of the Worlds". Although, it was mentioned several times that this was a radio play, people were packing up, trying to get out of town, and causing considerable havok because they were believing one man's "speculation" about an invading force of aliens from the planet Mars. >Bob Shell has, based on my understanding, more or less spearheaded the bulk of >the hands-on investigation you allude to. I agree entirely that the Santilli >footage has yet to be proven genuine or fake, but who in his right mind >_wouldn't_? >There is absolutely nothing wrong with speculation; to demean it is to cheapen >the very investigative process you take pains to endorse. To continue along the road of speculation about "What if" and "Could they be" can only lead us to potentially get lost in a "flight of fantasy." I stand by my original comment, which is, let us please verify the authenticity of the footage FIRST, before we try to determine WHERE the creatures in the film came from. Sincerely, David (Furry) Furlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Planes Over Trinity From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:49:58 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:20:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Planes Over Trinity > Date: 25 Jan 97 11:11:22 EST > From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Planes Over Trinity > I may have stumbled over verification of Theresa Carlson's research > on whether there were actually aircraft flying over Trinity during the > first test of the Atomic Bomb. Hi Terry, Nice to see you on the list. I think Theresa has proven that claim. That one does not seem to be the one some of us are too concerned with. It is the leap that there must have been cameras on those planes and Santilli's cameraman could have been on there as well. Theresa has a videotape of some footage from a TV program on the Discovery Channel, but she does not know what program, that is aerial footage of Trinity. That is what we are working on. I hope she is right -- could be very exciting. So far, I have been unable to confirm this. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 97 06:53:02 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:23:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos BGBOPPER addressed the following questions to me... >I find the copyright of the Santilli autopsy film raises some interesting >questions. > 1. How do you copyright stolen material? If in fact the film is real would it not be > the property of the U.S. Govt. ? Or does a "Finders, Keepers" rule govern British > copyrights? > 2. If in fact Santilli purchased the film from a U.S. Govt. photographer, >was that "Recieving stolen goods?" * I believe the subject of our emails was the posting of frames taken from the interview with 'Jack' which were prominently labelled copyright of Orbital Media Ltd as is Santilli's right, the video tape being his property. We were *not* discussing the 'alien autopsy' footage which is a quite different issue. As you asked my opinion, for what it's worth, here is my reply. Either the film is genuine or not. If 'not' then the claims for its contents and ownership are fabrications and and suppositions and cause no real legal problems if ownership can be established. If the film is genuine then several possibilities arise - and I limit myself to discussion of 'ownership' and not the contents. Then the film must be the property, in the primary instance, of the US government, however it came to be in Santilli's hands. If that is true, the logical consequence is that 'Jack' has committed a treasonous act by selling secret material to a foreign country. If so, how come he is still at liberty? My personal opinion is that it must be significant that the US government or its military agents have not made a move on Santilli (I'm sure he'd say if they did) either overtly or covertly. They don't want it back because it was never theirs and/or they know it's bogus. There is a third possibility: the film was a deliberate exercise in disinformation - created by some government agency and hawked around (rumours of it had been reported for at least a year) before Santilli bought it. In this case, too, the US government would have no interest in asserting their copyright. A forth possibility - that the film was part of a commercial hoax seems less likely in view of the large numbers of people who must have been involved at various stages and who would have to be paid and kept quiet. I say, for the record, that I do not believe Santilli was part of this hoax, except for buying the film from the 'maker's agent and knowing a 'good property' when he saw one. Santilli's efforts to market his property are a separate issue. The only problem with all these theories is that there is no independently confirmed (or confirmable) evidence of who made it and why. Once we know the true genesis of the film before it came to Santilli, all other questions will be answered, one way or another. Bob Rickard - editor bob@forteana.win.uk.net FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "All men know the use of useful things; but they do not know the use of useless things." Chuang Tsu
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 97 06:52:12 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:21:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob Shell wrote... >I was very surprised to see the posted note from Bob Rickard. I find it very >hypocritical of Rickard to deride Ray Santilli for asserting his copyright >over images from a video which he paid for. * I did not deride Ray for asserting his copyright. Like any good businessman he is simply protecting his property legally and justified in doing so. I understand this and gave my undertaking to abide by it. I have a lot of respect for Ray, who always been civil in his dealings with me and who has always been honest in his motives. I was referring not specifically to Ray but generally to the wider climate of commercialisation which I cannot change. Without impugning Ray, I sought to make the general observation that the 'truth' is inevitably made more difficult to find and independently verify when the subjects under discussion and 'key players' are under someone (anyone)'s control. I can't see how private ownership of pieces of the jigsaw, any jigsaw, helps the rest of us get the picture. Bob Rickard - editor bob@forteana.win.uk.net FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "All men know the use of useful things; but they do not know the use of useless things." Chuang Tsu
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:06:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:28:02 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:21:09 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: FO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >> Look for information in the letters that _post-dates_ any other >> information. >Would you explain this a little more? >[part of john's answer snipped] >>Its possible that the >> letters may contain a 'slip,' a mistake that would not have been noticed at >> the time but may be noticed now that the information flow is old and mostly >> stopped. Maybe something mentioned in the letters that became a lead for >> other information, maybe something mentioned that was 'out of sequence.' >> Does that make sense? >Makes perfect sense. I haven't found anything like that, though. That's good. >>a handwriting analysis might show that different letters were >> from possibly the same author although with such a small sample that would >> only be highly circumstantial at best. >Right, examining the letters can't prove anything for sure. There's very >little handwriting involved, almost none. But the letters allegedly from >the several parties do show consistencies in spelling, formatting, >punctuation, grammar, diction, tone....that is, consistencies within >each writer's letters, and marked differences between them. And there's >quite a lot of material. Do you also have the envelopes for each letter? How do the envelopes look? Same stamps, how are they addressed, etc.?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Incident at Exeter, Pt. 1 of 2 (Hynek).repost From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:25:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:25:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Incident at Exeter, Pt. 1 of 2 (Hynek).repost >Sorry for the inconvenience. When you posted my article as is, I >could see what needs to be done. I'll correct any I miss and repost >them. Let me know if this copy is O.K. Thank you. J.C. Jerry, A thing of beauty! Thanks muchly for your effort. Errol
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Mendoza's Secret Life From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:05:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:30:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life >Date: 21 Jan 97 18:29:34 EST >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Mendoza's Secret Life >PS: Andy, Jerry, Steven J., Greg, and the rest of you: meet me >under the hollow oak tree on Rendlesham Common at midnight for >further instructions and a bonus. >Reverse-engineered courtesy bus available. My shoe-phone is broken and that makes driving difficult, better send the courtesy bus. Same time, same rooftop?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:06:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:29:18 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:16:23 -0600 (CST) >> I don't know why so many people make so much out of Persinger's work, its >> very tentative and far from complete. There's positively a magnetic field >> association with UFOs and there's positively a relationship between eologic >> activity and subsequent UFO sightings. These are interesting but they >> really don't prove anything yet. >That's true, although if you saw the Discovery Channel's program which >highlighted Persinger's work (and any other program which featured >him), it was implied that this was the best theory since sliced bread >(pardon the metaphor). Well, technically, its not exactly a theory and as a hypothesis it hasn't been tested... Its a neat idea, but the rest is still ahead. >Further, Persinger isn't refining his theory at >all; he's just going further and further afield and no longer even >citing any criticisms of the TST. Finally, Persinger seems convinced >that the EM fields *are* the explanation for UFOs. I don't think its out of the question that geomagnetic effects could possibly explain a number of brief and distant DDs and NLs. So what? We've just recently successfully gotten past the 30% or 5% argument, <grin>, and I think we all realize that such cases (single witness, brief, distant, largely featureless DD or NL) aren't going to end up in our "premiere" database anyway. Geomagnetic effects (alone) don't come close to explaining the best data. >So, the reason skeptics are excited about Persinger's work is that it's >a way to explain the bizarre aspects of UFO reports (and all other >Forteana) without invoking aliens or metaphysics. The reason ufologists >are getting excited is because Persinger's work is getting so much >attention despite its weaknesses. I have a hard time believing that a critical thinking intelligent skeptic would assign so much importance to an unproven theory that only explains that which we consider less than compelling to explain...<grin> Although folks who think everything odd in the sky is an alien spaceship coming to probe their anus are probably quite upset at the attention TST is getting. >It's like the discovery that garlic has *something* to do with the >reduction in the numbers of cancer cells in the body. Does that mean we >should abandon all other leads or studies unrelated to garlic? No; we >file it and devote some energy to investigating it, but remember the >limitations of research. Well, his 'theory' would benefit from some proof. Like, say, going out to the field and photographing and recording some geomagnetic anomalies and cross-referencing those with subsequent UFO sightings.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Incident at Exeter, Pt. 2 of 2 (Hynek).repost From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:53:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:26:41 -0500 Subject: Incident at Exeter, Pt. 2 of 2 (Hynek).repost As mentioned in part one, the following excerpt is taken from: Hynek, J. Allen . "The Hynek UFO Report" . paperback, pp 154-166 . Dell Publishing Co. 1977 : and also, material therein from Blue Book files. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Incident at Exeter" - continued (part 2 of 2) Dr. Hynek: It is interesting to note that Maj. Quintanilla had used the term "before a final evaluation of your sighting can be made," whereas the Pentagon had in fact already issued its evaluation (attributing the sighting to Operation Big Blast) some time before Quintanilla wrote his letter. Maj. Quintanilla received a prompt reply from Officers Bertrand and Hunt. Their letter of December 2, 1965, reads: "Dear Sir: We were very glad to get your letter during the third week in November, because as you might imagine, we have been the subject of considerable ridicule since the Pentagon released its "final evaluation" of our sighting of September 3, 1965. In other words, both Patrolman Hunt and myself saw this object at close range, checked it out with each other, confirmed and reconfirmed the fact that this was not any kind of conventional aircraft, that it was at an altitude of not more than a couple of hundred feet and went to considerable trouble to confirm that the weather was clear, there was no wind, no chance of weather inversion, and that what we were seeing was in no way a military or civilian craft. We entered this in a complete official police report as a supplement to the blotter of the morning of September 3rd (not September 2 as your letter indicates). Since our job depends on accuracy and the ability to tell the difference between fact and fiction, we were naturally disturbed by the Pentagon report issued which attributed the sighting to "multiple high-altitude objects in area" and "weather inversion." What is a little difficult to understand is the fact that your letter arrived considerably after the Pentagon release. Since your letter says that you are still in the process of making a final evaluation, it seems that there is an inconsistency here. Ordinarily, this would not be too important except for the fact that in a situation like this, we are naturally very reluctant to be considered irresponsible in our official report to the police station. One of us (Patrolman Bertrand) was in the Air Force for four years, engaged in refueling operations, with all kinds of military aircraft; it was impossible to mistake what we saw for any kind of military operation, regardless of altitude. It was also definitely not a helicopter or balloon. Immediately after the object disappeared, we did see what probably was a B-47 at high altitudes, but it bore no relation to the object that we saw. Another fact is that the time of our observation was nearly an hour after two A.M. which would eliminate the Air Force Operation Big Blast since as you say, this took place between midnight and 2 A.M. Norman Muscarello, who first reported this object before we went to the site, saw it somewhere in the vicinity of 2 A.M. but nearly an hour had passed before he got to the police station and we went out to the location with him. We would both appreciate it very much if you would help us eliminate the possible conclusion that some people have made in that we might have: (a) made up the story, (b) were incompetent observers. Anything that you could do along this line would be very much appreciated, and I am sure that you can understand the position we are in. We appreciate the problem that the Air Force must have with the number of irresponsible reports on this subject, and don't want to cause you unnecessary trouble. One the other hand, we think that you probably understand our position. Thanks very much for your interest. Sincerely, Patrolman Eugene Bertrand and Patrolman David Hunt Dr. Hynek: They received no reply to this letter. They wrote again on December 29: Dear Sir: Since we have not heard from you since our letter of December 2, we are writing this to request some kind of an answer since we are still upset about what happened after the Pentagon released its news that we had just seen stars or planets, or high-altitude air exercises. As we mentioned in our last letter to you, it could not have been the Operation Big Blast you mentioned since the time of our sighting was an hour after that exercise and it may not have even been the same date since you refer to our sighting as September 2. Our sighting was on September 3. In addition, as we mentioned, we are both familiar with all the B-47's and B-52's and helicopters and jet fighters which are going over this place all the time. On top of this, Patrolman Bertrand had four years of refueling experience in the Air Force and knows regular aircraft of all kinds. It is important to remember that this craft that we saw was not more than one hundred feet in the air and it was absolutely silent with no rush of air from jets or chopper blades whatever. And it did not have any wings or tail. It lit up the entire field, and two nearby houses turned completely red. It stopped, hovered, and turned on a dime. What bothers us most is that many people are thinking that we were either lying or not intelligent enough to tell the difference between what we saw and something ordinary. Three other people saw this same thing on September 3 and two of them appear to be in shock from it. This was absolutely not a case of mistaken identity. We both feel that it is very important for our jobs and our reputations to get some kind of letter from you to say that story put out by the Pentagon was not true; it could not possibly be because we were the people who saw this, not the Pentagon. Can you please let us hear from you as soon as possible? Signed, Patrolman Eugene Bertrand and Patrolman David Hunt Dr. Hynek: More than a month later, the patrolmen received the following response from the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force: Gentlemen: Based on additional information submitted to our UFO Investigation Officer, Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, we have been unable to identify the object that you observed on September 3, 1965. In nineteen years of investigating over ten thousand reports of unidentified flying objects, the evidence has proved almost conclusively that reported aerial phenomena have been either objects created or set aloft by men, generated by atmospheric conditions, or caused by celestial bodies or the residue of meteoric activity. Thank you for reporting your observation to the Air Force, and for your subsequent co-operation concerning the report. I regret any inconvenience you may have suffered as a result. Sincerely, John P. Spaulding Lt. Col, USAF Dr. Hynek: Whether this letter satisfied the patrolmen, I do not know. Between the lines, it still says "It can't be, therefore it isn't" and that therefore their sighting must undoubtedly have some natural explanation. At least, however, the patrolmen had the satisfaction of the final admission from the Pentagon that they had been unable to identify their sighting. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net P.S. To those who never read his book, author John Fuller came up with about 60 witnesses to low altitude sightings in the Exeter area in this general time period. Again, his book: Fuller, John G. "Incident at Exeter" . A Berkley Medallion Book . Pub. G.P. Putnam's Sons Distributed by Berkley Publishing Corporation . paperback 1/67
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:07:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:31:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:27:39 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>>>That's kind of silly since the majority of observers are casual >>>>and untrained ......... >>>JC: If I may tweak the terminology a bit. I believe the last >>>sentenceshould probably say: "..... since the majority of >>>"reporters" are casual and untrained." >>Observers or reporters, same thing. ....snip.... >JC: Not if you read what Dr. Hynek said. I was just trying to >point out that many excellent observers do not report their >sightings. Some of those observers are quite well trained. Oops, I missed that point. Yes, I think so too. >>>>How does one turn the Pascagoula case into a misidentification ><grin>? >>>JC: Good question. I have a friend that was raised in that >>>general vicinity that would definitely ask the same thing. >>That was mostly a rhetorical question <grin>, but I'd like to hear >>what an 'insider' has to say about it. >JC: I apologize for bringing it up as I'll breach a confidence >with this person, and receive flak from skeptics as well, no matter >what else I say. However, having talked to people in the area, said >person is now fairly well convinced that case was true. I don't know if it was/is true or not but I sure as heck don't see how 'misidentification' could be used to explain it <grin>.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Incident at Exeter, Pt. 1 of 2 (Hynek).repost From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:04:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:24:16 -0500 Subject: Incident at Exeter, Pt. 1 of 2 (Hynek).repost Errol, Until I've got this "line-length" thing really under control, I've set up a couple of macros so that I can put returns after every line. They are invisible on my mailer. I think the macros will temporarily solve the problem until I can get a new mail program that has the transmitted "line-length" adjustment built in. Sorry for the inconvenience. When you posted my article as is, I could see what needs to be done. I'll correct any I miss and repost them. Let me know if this copy is O.K. Thank you. J.C. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:52:52 -0500 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Subject: Incident at Exeter, Pt. 1 of 2 (Hynek) Hello out there, For those people that read the Oberg/Cooper series, I had mentioned that Dr. Hynek, the Air Force's number one civilian astronomical consultant, slowly turned from a debunker to a believer and cited some things that happened along the way to cause this. The following case, also located in Blue Book files, had to be one of the major precipitating factors. I had recently posted a brief summary of the case in a post to John Powell. Most researchers are quite familiar with it, but for those people out there not old enough to remember, but who are reading this mail and attempting to fathom where some of the researchers today are coming from, this was just one of many items that Dr. Hynek found it impossible to reconcile in his many years dealing with UFO reports. It sounds like science fiction, but it was on the police blotter and in Blue Book files. Remember, we only need one of these cases we are mentioning along the way to be the real thing for us to demonstrate the necessity for the varied research being performed today by various civilian groups. You may not agree with all their methods, but _someone_ has to examine this thing seriously. The scientific establishment has simply shaken its head and said; "We don't know what it was or if it was real." This did not help the two patrolmen who "experienced" and reported the following events. God knows we need more "scientists" taking it seriously. Excerpt below taken directly from: Hynek, J. Allen . "The Hynek UFO Report" . paperback, pp 154-166 . Dell Publishing Co. 1977 : which included material therein from Blue Book files. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The "Incident at Exeter" - September 3, 1965 * Dr. Hynek: "Incident" is hardly the term for this classic Close Encounter case which is known to virtually all who have followed the UFO phenomenon. This encounter at Exeter, New Hampshire gained national prominence, and caused both the original witnesses and the Air Force considerable embarrassment. Not only is this a fine example of a Close Encounter of the First Kind, but it is a showcase illustration of Blue Book negligence, put-down of witnesses, attempts to explain away the testimony of responsible witnesses with a parade of "official" explanations, and of capitulation on the part of the Pentagon which, months later, had to admit that the case should have been carried as "Unidentified." The file folders in Blue Book, however, still have the original evaluation of "Astro-Stars/Planets" and "Aircraft for Operation Big Blast." (The astronomical evaluation is completely untenable and Operation Big Blast terminated more than an hour before the incident at Exeter began, according to official records.) The story of this case is well documented in John Fuller's book "The Incident at Exeter," and in an excellent report by Raymond Fowler and his associates, who did a far better job investigating the case than did Blue Book. I am indebted to Mr. Fowler for the excerpts from his report that follow. Blue Book files on this case are fairly extensive in themselves although they draw heavily on the report by Mr. Fowler. Blue Book's first mention of the incident at Exeter is dated October 15, 1965, and comes in the form of a request from the Headquarters of the 817th Air Division (SAC) at Pease AFB, New Hampshire. Written by their Director of Information for the Commander, and addressed to the Information Officer at Wright-Patterson AFB, it reads: . . . There have been an unusually high number of reported sightings of unidentified flying objects in the Pease AFB, New Hampshire, area which have been the subject of much discussion and numerous newspaper, radio and television reports. Many of these sightings have been reported to this base and your records will show that we have performed thorough investigations of the . . . Several members of this command have actually been called to view UFOs by sincere and sober citizens but as yet, we have always been too late or "unlucky." The most interesting sighting, in the nearby town of Exeter, aroused special interest as two policemen saw the object at very close range. . . This office has, of course, not commented on sightings reported to the Air Force other than to say that they have been or are being investigated, that the reports will be sent to your organization, that further releases will be made from the Public Information Office of the Secretary of the Air Force, etc. The fact that we cannot comment on the investigations has led to somewhat alarming suspicion of Air Force motives and interest in this area, the most popular belief being that "...the Air Force won't release the truth because if the truth were known, everyone would be panicked." I have attempted to counter this by explaining the USAF's interest in this matter every time I speak to the press or private citizens about this matter. . . Still, however, an alarming number of people remain unconvinced {!}. Many members of the two nearby Military Affairs committees and key citizens from surrounding towns and cities have inquired concerning the possibility of an Air Force speaker on this subject. Do you operate a speaker's bureau or would you be able to suggest where I might be able to obtain knowledge of an Air Force spokesman who could explain the Air Force UFO program and what happens to reports sent to your organization? If speakers from your organization are available, it might be possible for us to arrange transportation via Pease Base C-47, Billeting poses no problem. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. For the Commander A.B.B., 1st Lt. USAF Director of Information Dr. Hynek: The initial report which came in from Pease AFB on September 15, 1965, was the soul of brevity. "The following report of an unidentified object is hereby submitted in accordance with AFR-200-2. A) Description of Object 1) round 2) baseball 3) bright red 4) five red lights in a row 5) lights were close together and moved as one object 6) none 7) none 8) none 9) extremely bright red B) Description of Course of Object 1) visual sighting 2) object was at an altitude of approximately 100 feet and moved in an arc of 135 degrees 3) object disappeared at an altitude of approximately one hundred feet on a magnetic heading of approximately 160 degrees 4) the object was erratic in movement and would disappear behind houses and building in the area. It would then appear at a position other than where it disappeared. When in view, it would act as a floating leaf. 5) object departed on a heading of 160 degrees and was observed until it disappeared in the distance 6) one hour C) Manner of Observation 1) ground-visual 2) none 3) N/A D) Time and Date of Sighting 1) 3/9/0600 Z 2) night E) Location of Observer 1) 3 nautical miles SW of Exeter in New Hampshire F) Identifying Information of Observer 1) civilian, Norman J. Muscarello, age 18.... appears to be reliable. 2) civilian, Eugene F. Bertrand, Jr., age 30, Exeter Police Department, Exeter, New Hampshire, patrolman, reliable 3) civilian, David R. Hunt, age 28, Exeter Police Department, Exeter, New Hampshire, patrolman, reliable G) Weather and Winds 1) weather was clear with no known weather phenomena. There was a five-degree inversion from surface to 5,000'. 2) winds at Pease AFB (the winds were uniformly from the west, low velocity near the surface to quite high above 10,000') 3) clear (unlimited) 4) 30 nautical miles 5) None 6) None H) None I) None J) None K) Major David H. Griffin, Base Disaster Control Officer, Command pilot 1) at this time I have been unable to arrive at a probably cause of this sighting. The three observers seem to be stable, reliable persons, especially the two patrolmen. I viewed the area of the sighting and found nothing in the area that could be the probable cause. Pease AFB had five B-47 aircraft flying in the area during this period but I do not believe that they had any connection with this sighting. Dr. Hynek: The report in Blue Book continues with the statements of the three witnesses involved. The first, from Norman Muscarello, follows: I, Norman J. Muscarello, was hitchhiking on Rt. 150, three miles south of Exeter, New Hampshire, at 0200 hours on the 3rd of September. A group of five bright red lights appeared over a house about a hundred feet from where I was standing. The lights were in a line at about a sixty-degree angle. They were so bright, they lighted up the area. The lights then moved out over a large field and acted at times like a floating leaf. They would go down behind the trees, behind a house and then reappear. They always moved in the same sixty-degree angle. Only one light would be on at a time. They were pulsating: one, two, three, four, five, four, three, two, one. They were so bright I could not distinguish a form to the object. I watched these lights for about fifteen minutes and they finally disappeared behind some trees and seemed to go into a field. At one time while I was watching them, they seemed to come so close I jumped into a ditch to keep from being hit. After the lights went into a field, I caught a ride to the Exeter Police Station and reported what I had seen. signed, Norman J. Muscarello Dr. Hynek: The statement from the first patrolman, who after being called to the scene also witnessed the UFO: I, Eugene F. Bertrand, Jr., was cruising on the morning of the 3rd of September at 0100 on Rt. 108 bypass near Exeter, New Hampshire. I noticed an automobile parked on the side of the road and stopped to investigate. I found a woman in the car who stated she was too upset to drive. She stated that a light had been following her car and had stopped over her car. I stayed with her about fifteen minutes but was unable to see anything. I departed and reported back to Exeter Police Station where I found Norman Muscarello. He related his story of seeing some bright red lights in the field. After taking him back to where he stated that he had seen the lights. When we had gone about fifty feet, a group of five bright red lights came from behind a group of trees near us. They were extremely bright and flashed on one at a time. The lights started to move around over the field. At one time, they came so close I fell to the ground and started to draw my gun. The lights were so bright, I was unable to make out any form. There was no sound or vibration but the farm animals were upset in the area and were making a lot of noise. When the lights started coming near us again, Mr. Muscarello and I ran to the car. I radioed Patrolman David Hunt who arrived in a few minutes. He also observed the lights which were still over the field but not as close as before. The lights moved out across the field at an estimated altitude of one hundred feet, and finally disappeared in the distance at the same altitude. The lights were always in line at about a sixty-degree angle. When the object moved, the lower lights were always forward of the others. signed, Eugene F. Bertrand, Patrolman Dr. Hynek: From the third witness: I, David R. Hunt, at about 0255 on the morning of the 3rd of September, received a call from Patrolman Bertrand to report to an area about three miles southwest of Exeter, New Hampshire. Upon arriving at the scene, I observed a group of bright red lights flashing in sequence. They appeared to be about one half mile over a field to the southeast. After observing the lights for a short period of time, they moved off in a southeasterly direction and disappeared in the distance. The lights appeared to remain at the same altitude which I estimate to be about one hundred feet. signed, David R. Hunt, Patrolman Dr. Hynek: Blue Book's way of dealing with these witnesses' reports was to make every effort to locate some type of aircraft operation in the area in question; none was successful. A news clip from the Amesbury News, Massachusetts, stated that the UFO was identified as an "ad gimmick"; but Ray Fowler checked with the Skylight Aerial Advertising Company and was advised that their aircraft was _not_ flying on the night of September 3. He was also informed that the company aircraft rarely flew into southern New Hampshire, and when it did, it was usually in the Salem and Manchester areas, miles away from Exeter. Furthermore, he learned that the "Skylight" aircraft does not carry red flashing lights; it carries a rectangular sign with white flashing lights. Yet the manager of the advertising company had stated to the Amesbury News that "perhaps some UFOs reported in the New Hampshire area could have been their aircraft." Unfortunately, the press anxiously latched on to this bit of irrelevant information to "explain" the Exeter case. The two simultaneous investigations of this case are an interesting study in contrasts. The Air Force records are at best sketchy, and focus essentially on attempts at locating existing aircraft in the area; as usual, Blue Book started out its investigation with a negative premise. On the other hand, Raymond Fowler and his associates made an exhaustive examination of the case, keeping their minds open at all times. Their final reports were duly submitted to Blue Book. The following is excerpted from Fowler's report, which supplements Muscarello's statement to the Air Force investigator: . . . Muscarello reported the incident to Desk Officer Reginald Towland at about 1:45 A.M. EDT. Side view and angle view seen. He was hit with fear and hardly able to talk. A radio call was made to Officer Bertrand asking him to return to the station, pick up Muscarello, and investigate at the scene of the sighting which he did. Upon arriving at the Carl Dining field, the object was nowhere to be seen. After waiting and looking from the cruiser for several minutes, Bertrand radioed headquarters that there was nothing there and that the boy must have been imagining things. It was then suggested that he examine the field before returning, so Bertrand and Muscarello advanced into the field. As the police officer played his flashlight beam back and forth over the field, Muscarello sighted the object rising slowly from behind some nearby trees and shouted. Bertrand swung around and saw a large dark object carrying a straight row of four extraordinarily bright, red, pulsating lights coming into the field at treetop level. It swung around toward them and just clearing a sixty-to seventy-foot tree and seemingly only one hundred feet away from them. Instinctively, Officer Bertrand drew his service revolver (he stated that Muscarello shouted, "Shoot it!"), but thinking this unwise, replaced it and yelled to Muscarello to take cover in the cruiser. He told me (Fowler) that he was afraid that they both would be burnt by the blinding lights closing in on them. They ran to the cruiser where Bertrand immediately put in a radio call to headquarters for assistance. Officer Hunt arrived within minutes, and the trio observed the object move away over and below the tree line. Dr. Hynek: Now let us return to the Blue Book coverage for a look at an interesting exchange of letters between the then Major Quintanilla and the police officers involved. Quintanilla states: Our investigations and evaluation of the sighting indicates a possible association with the Air Force operation "Big Blast." In addition to aircraft from this operation, there were five (5) B-47 aircraft flying in the area during this period. Before final evaluation of your sighting can be made, it is essential for us to know if either of you witnessed any aircraft in the area during this time period, either independently or in connection with the observed object. Since there were many aircraft in the area, at he time, and there were no reports of unidentified objects from personnel engaged in this air operation, we might then assume that the objects observed between midnight and two A.M. might be associated with this military air operation. If, however, these aircraft were noted by either of you, this would tend to eliminate this air operation as a possible explanation for the objects observed. Signed, Hector Quintanilla, Jr. Major, USAF, Chief, Project Blue Book Exeter sightings: continued in part two * Fuller, John G. "Incident at Exeter" . A Berkley Medallion Book . Pub. G.P. Putnam's Sons Distributed by Berkley Publishing Corporation . 1/67 Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Article from Emory University Web Site From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:06:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:33:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Article from Emory University Web Site >From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) >Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL >To: (Mailing list) <skywatch@wic.net>, >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:31:11 -0700 >Subject: Skywatch: Article from Emory University Web Site >The Courtney Brown affair and academic freedom >[...] >Brown, who >directs the "Farsight Institute" in Atlanta, offers seminars--at a cost >of $3,000 per head--that promise to provide attendees with the psychic >abilities he has mastered. Somebody should spend the $3000, take the 'course' and report on what they learned...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:05:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:32:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:11:37 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos >It's no secret that most of us here on the list have seen the Santilli >alien autopsy CAMERAMAN photos that have been floating around in >cyberspace. I'm surprised that there hasn't been any discussion about >them here except for a short blurb by Bob Shell. I'm not sure what there is to discuss. >My observations... The man in the photos seems to be wearing glasses in >the enhanced photo, but doesn't seen to be wearing any in the unehanced >photo. >I wonder...did he remove his glasses during the interview or am i wrong >about the no glasses? Yes, glasses in one photo and not the other. > It also looks to me like he has either a mole or >some kind of growth on the right side of his face near the mouth. What is >that? He has a sort of craggy, jowly face, which enhances the effect of the mole in the right side of this face. Also the glare enhances this. > The man in the photo looks like he could be 80 to me. Actually, he looks _exactly_ like the taxicab driver who gave me a lift home from the airport Friday before last <grin>. But this guy said he was a merchant marine for 30 years and he's either read everything written about MMs or he really was one... >I think this might turn out to be the first REAL lead we've had on this >controversial issue in a long time. I think that learning the identity >of this alleged cameraman might possibly be our last chance to learn the >truth and genesis of this film. >What do you think? Well, its one of the first _real_ items of the entire fiasco, I mean case. So far, there's no film, no actual film labels, no other physical evidence. This is obviously a real person... Unfortunately, less than 1% of the US population is on the Internet. Maybe Fox could put his picture on TV???
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:12:14 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:36:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? Jorgen Westman writes: >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:49:32 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Bodies recovered at Roswell: alien fakes? >>Gentlemen, before we go on theorizing about WHAT these things are in >>the "supposed footage" of the Alien autopsy, perhaps we should try >>verifying the authenticity of the creatures as being something that >>were NOT created by us (humans) to dupe other humans. <snipped> >>David (Furry) Furlotte >David - I couldn't have said it better myself! >This is a major problem throughout the whole UFO-field. >When things can't be verified as genuine or not people start to >act as it doesn't matter and get around to verifying details in the >"unspecific" photo, film etc. I think we all need to freshen up >here and get tougher. Always start at the beginning and if you >can't verify the cause of the case, everything afterwards is plausability. >Jorgen / WUFOC Jorgen and David-- Your point is well taken. Believe me when I say that I know exactly what you mean. Leaping to wild conclusions can indeed be dangerous. But I stand by my statement that _some_ cautious speculation can actually assist in an investigation. For example, Bob Shell mentioned a thoracic surgeon identifying the creatures' prosthetic device as an artificial heart valve. No matter its purpose, its presence on the AA footage can perhaps tell us many things: If it's a hoax, then the hoaxers apparently had access to artificial heart valves, implying that they had some sort of medical affiliation (?). If the glutinous innards of the dissected creature are indeed consistent with a high-speed air collision, could a similar effect be achieved using some other method, such as a centrifuge? In short, the points raised in our speculative dialogue (points I haven't heard elsewhere, I might add) actually provide some telling (if vague) clues that might be able to get to the bottom of the footage's authenticity. Sincerely, Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:42:10 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:34:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos My two cents... The Santilli film is reputedly a record of a U.S. Army operation, the autopsy of an extrabiological entity (EBE). Therefore the copyright is the property of the U.S. Army. since Mr. Santilli was merely one of many soldiers involved in the operation. On the other hand, if the film is a "creation," and Mr. Santilli is the creator, then, of course, the copyright belongs to him. If the film is genuine, then it seems to me that the U.S. Department of Justice could bring charges of unlawful possession and sale of government property.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 26 Boylan bulletins From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:26:50 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:37:25 -0500 Subject: Boylan bulletins Dr. Shargell, Back on Wed Dec 11 Dr. Richard Boylan posted some "bulletins" to the UFO updates email list, to which I subscribe, and which I have attached below. Now that the Jan 23rd date referenced in bulletin item 2 (below) has passed without event, I wonder if you, as the cited originator of the information, might have any further comment on these predictions for the subscribers to the UFO Updates list? You are welcome to respond directly to the UFO Updates list manager at updates@globalserve.net, or to me personally, in which case I will forward your response to the list myself. Thanks much, -Brian Cuthbertson brianc@fc.net ============================================================== Dr. Boylan's "bulletins", posted Dec 11 1996, follow ... ============================================================== >From updates@globalserve.net Wed Dec 11 00:57:29 1996 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:54:05 -0500 To: updates@globalserve.net From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Bulletins' from The 24th Street Exchange From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Organization: 24th Street Exchange Date: Tue, 10 Dec 96 10:14:48 -0800 Subject: Bulletins To: updates@globalserve.net December 10, 1996 Richard Boylan, Ph.D. 2826 O Street, Suite 2 Sacramento, CA 95816 United States of America News Bulletins 1. I received a call yesterday from the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) that this Wednesday, December 11 in Washington, DC, the Space Summit will take place which President Clinton called for during his comments on NASA's announcement of life on Mars. In attendance will be key Congressional leaders, top NASA officials, high Pentagon officers, and select members of the Administration. A very few select scientists will be making presentations in keeping with the Summit's agenda of what America's objectives for space should be, now that we know for certain that extraterrestrial life exists. Among the scientists presenting will be Dr. Steven Dick, expert on extraterrestrial life and cosmology. OSTP's Jason Kim invited me to submit to them written information pertaining to my expertise in extraterrestrial life. 2. Former NASA scientist Lee Shargell, Ph.D.today confirmed to me by phone that radio signals have been received from Comet Hale-Bopp's "companion" object, but that they have ceased transmitting for the time being. Dr. Shargell also stated that there will be a number of scientists present as observers at the International UFO Congress at Laughlin, Nevada January 18-24. He additionally reported information from a reliable source in Australia, (probably at the Pine Gap installation), that on January 23rd a brilliant show will occur in the cosmos involving a bluish-white star not too distant from Earth. Shargell's informant also stated that signals from Hale-Bopp's "companion" will resume in the high megahertz band (K-A or K-U, he thought), and be received on Earth, possibly affecting radio or television transmissions. Shargell also noted that he has in possession copies of photos from lunar surveyor satellite Clementine showing anomalous objects (not ice) in a lunar crater and also near the Moon in space. {Dr. Shargell's E address is: Galcticon@prodigy.com) 3. Multiple extraterrestrial sources, mediated through human interlocutors, indicate that the first of the official interstellar federation Landings will occur before Winter is over. There will be additional Landings in 1997, at least one of which will be videotaped by television crews and shown on television. Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Rael In Daytona 24 Hour Race From: RSchatte@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:41:42 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:48:12 -0500 Subject: Rael In Daytona 24 Hour Race --------------------- Forwarded message: From: AOLNewsProfiles@aol.net Date: 97-01-24 15:41:42 EST DAYTONA BEACH, Fla., Jan. 24 /PRNewswire/ -- Rael, the fastest religious leader in the world, will be racing in the Daytona 24-hour race which will take place Februrary 1 and 2 at the wheel of an Argo BMW V-12 with 650 horse power, racing in ESC category and able to reach more than 200 mph. His co- drivers on the car number 19 will be the Indy Car Driver Butch Brickell and Edd Davin. The Raelians beleive extraterrestrials created life on Earth scientifically in laboratory using DNA. They say these extraterrestrials are the ELOHIM of the Bible, a name which was wrongly translated by "God" and means in Hebrew "Those who came from the sky." The Raelian Church has 35,000 members in 84 countries. Rael's book, "The Message Given To Me By Extraterrestrials," is a worldbest seller, translated in 22 languages and sold at more than 1 million copieswhich relates the experience Rael had in 1973 when he was a journalist in France and says he was contacted by extraterrestrials, the ELOHIM, who brought him inside a UFO and asked him to spread the message explaining the Raelians' origins and to build an Embassy close to Jerusalem where they will come back officially, like their scriptures say. The car will be sponsored by UFOLAND, the first center for UFO phenomena in the world where the public will be able to visit the interior of the full size replica (21 feet) of a UFO, based on Rael's book, and which will open its doors next May in Valcourt (Quebec), 75 minutes North East of Montreal. Search for other documents from or mentioning: rschatte |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Autopsy Camerman Photos From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Jan 97 01:36:13 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:50:11 -0500 Subject: Autopsy Camerman Photos > From: BGBOPPER@aol.com > Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:44:01 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Autopsy Cameraman photos > I find the copyright of the Santilli autopsy film raises some > interesting questions. There's no question Bob Shell is right that the film/interview of "Jack" is copyright of whomever shot the film or sold it (and/or the rights) to Santilli. This is so whatever you think of Santilli going into bully mode over publication of the odd clip (Warner Bros wouldn't!). However, Santilli has no copyright whatever in the alien autopsy film IF it is genuine - being US Govt property and thereby automatically in the public domain. If the US Govt wanted to keep it secret, they'd have to use some other argument than copyright to suppress it now. There again, if it is fake, I wager Santilli will never sue for breach of copyright. I gather he claims it on the *video* because of alleged enhancements made in the film/tape transfer. Personally I think this is stretching the legal envelope, but to show a breach of copyright he would have to produce the original film for comparison with the video, to demonstrate the "enhancements". Under disclosure rules, defense would also be entitled to a chunk of the film to prove their obvious line that it is genuine old footage of genuine old autopsy and not copyright. Either way Santilli is stuck if he wants to keep making money out of the autopsy footage. My $100 to your $1 that Santilli doesn't release any original autopsy film stock, ever. My whack payable when he does, but not payable if any of the hoaxers 'fess up first. British and US copyright laws were harmonized under the revision of the old Berne Convention that came into force in around 1983, by the way. best wishes from deep cover P. Mendoza Bootlegged-Scripts
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:49:56 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:45:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Hi Bob. Regarding: >Date: 24 Jan 97 11:57:02 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > I was very surprised to see the posted note from Bob Rickard. I > find it very hypocritical of Rickard to deride Ray Santilli for > asserting his copyright over images from a video which he paid for. You've obviously misunderstood Mr Rickard's intentions. Like all the other fine folks at _FT_, Bob is well-known for his philanthropy and strong public spirit. He just assumed, as would any right-thinking citizen of Planet Earth, that exposing a criminal like "Jack" would have been a priority of most of us who are honest, law-abiding citizens. > Yes, the cameraman has said he will not do any interviews or > anything else without payment, and this "interview" was paid for. > Ray Santilli has considered this a commercial venture from the > beginning, and has never claimed otherwise. And this is the problem, Bob. Ray is aiding and abetting Jack's criminal activities. Do you remember Mr Santilli's June 3rd, 1995 post about "Jack"? ------------------------------------------------------------------- >Subj: MESSAGE FROM RAY SANTILLI Section: COMMUNION (UFO) > To: new age B+ 03 June 1995 19:12:19 >From: Ray Santilli, ######## #22840 >A great deal of nonsense has been written since news of our footage >first came to light. [...] >WHY WON'T WE SPILL THE BEANS AND GIVE THE WORLD CHAPTER AND VERSE ON >THE CAMERAMAN???????? >From the cameramans point of view there were, and still are, a >number of major considerations :- > 1. The welfare of his family (especially grandchildren) Understandable. Visiting Gramps in his tiny cell at Leavenworth could be traumatic for the kiddies. > 2. His sworn oath to his country His "sworn oath"? To do what, grab the first bit of (alleged) classified film he could find and sell it for cash? No, that's naughty, "Jack". > 3. The ownership of the material Even Ray admits there's doubt over the ownership of the material. It didn't stopped him "dealing" in it though, did it? > 4. The IRS. A-ha! So Ray _knowingly_ helped "Jack" to defraud the IRS and contribute to the burden of every U.S. taxpayer. For shame, Ray... ------------------------------------------------------------------- > If Rickard really feels that all important information like this > should be in the public domain, then I suggest that his publisher > should cease copyrighting Fortean Times and make all information > freely available to the UFO community to use as any of us see fit. But this isn't "UFO" information, this is information being disseminated to help apprehend a criminal. "Jack" has been a very naughty boy, and his mug(shot) ought to be spread far and wide. And not just on UFO-oriented programs like 'Unsolved Mysteries' and 'SIGHTINGS' but 'America's Most Wanted' and post office bulletin boards. > More to the point, all subscriptions should be free, and distribution > of the magazine at news agents should be free as well. There's nothing Fortean about someone lying and cheating their way to a small fortune. > This particular knife cuts both ways, you know. Your claim that _FT's_ interest in "Jack" is purely UFOlogical has no merit; it's a public service. Go through some back issues and you'll see that _FT_ has a long history of interest in people named Jack: 'Jack The Ripper'; 'Jack O'Lantern'; 'Spring-heeled Jack', etc. 'Lying, Tax-Evading Cameraman Jack' fits right in there. The real issues here are the illegal activities of "Jack," and Ray's continued aiding and abetting after the fact. Who knows? Maybe "Jack" and Ray will get to share a cell together? - John "Hello IRS? I Have A Picture Of Someone Who Has Been Evading Their Taxes. Are You Interested? You Are? Oh Good." -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: The Two Faces of Ufology From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 00:22:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:49:07 -0500 Subject: Re: The Two Faces of Ufology This message has been altered. I worked very hard to get it to conform to the 70 character rule, which requires taking it out AOL's mailer and putting it into a text editor. Hope it turned out ok. I tried to twist as many of Theresa's words as possible. JUST KIDDING. HI Theresa, Welcome home. A lot was happening as you were boarding the plane for the Nevada... I held my response until you were hopefully back at home safely. > > Why Thank you for calling me two faced! I might have several names; > > however that does not necessarily mean I am two faced. In fact, if I > > were two faced I might put on a better one than this. <g> > No, no, I wasn't calling you two-faced. That title actually comes from an > article that I never finished writing about Ufology in general. Heck you > are one of the few people that I have had a chance to meet and that I > actually like and respect! I just thought I could use your response to > Bob S. as a starting point. It seems to happen all over the field tho. Well, I'm glad you cleared up THAT confusion. Thanks for the complement. > (I'm still trying to figure out how the reports that Brazel found the > debris at least a couple weeks before he reported it are addressed in the > classic Roswell story, when it is claimed that the UFO didn't crash till the > first week of July.) That would probably be a good question for the Roswell people, like Kevin Randle and Stanton. I'm not an expert on Roswell by any means and there certainly seems to be a wide variety of ways of telling the story. > > Am I required by one these new rules in ufology to respond to every point? > > Where are these rules posted anyway? > > That's a good question. I don't think I have seen them written down yet. > But I have seen investigators/researchers refuse to investigate until the > witnesses "prove" their story. That's new. Or that something is fake until > proven real. That's new. I wonder how these things would work if they > were applied to abduction reports, for instance. I think that is a pretty good unwritten rule, don't you? I think claimants should offer something to back up what they are saying. Ray hasn't offered much to back up his claim about having the film of an alien autopsy. Simple questions with simple answers would suffice. Like who did the film to video transfer. You know, Ray has been very protective of the cameraman but now we learn that he has sold the cameraman's interview to the Japanese. What's the story with that? > And on the Discovery program they show some footage that is marked > "Official Army Footage" of a medical procedure that is in B&W. If > colour was the norm, I wonder why they couldn't show official footage > in colour. Certainly would have gone further to prove their point. I can't speak for what Four Winds Productions did. And McGovern did say that all medical procedures were filmed in color. But what we don't really know is what he meant by "all." That sounds kind of odd, I know, but I know for a fact that it was NOT only McGovern who made the claim about medical footage done in color. Gibson and Longo have both said it as well. Could it be that is what they did and they were speaking from their experience. What do you think? Probably wouldn't hurt to try to clear this up. > I have a fax that is a response from one of my queries to the National > Archives about the Little Henry footage that is in the USAF section. It > sorta leaves open the question of whether or not it was shot by the > military, but has some other information in it. That information reads > to me like even if it was filmed by a military cameraman, it could > not possibly have been the alleged autopsy cameraman. I would > like some opinions on it, but don't think I should post it here, > since I didn't go there physically and view the footage myself. > But I would like to forward the fax to you and get your opinion/ > interpretation of it. I'll send you my fax number in a private email or would you rather put it in some sort of file. I am not even close to an expert on these things but I would be happy to take a look at it and see if I might be able to tell you who might be of help. > Oh, that was just an FYI, advanced notice thingie. <G> In case anyone > wondered later where I disappeared to. So tell us, how was the conference? I was there last year (only for a day or two though) and it was certainly an experience that I won't long forget. <g> > I am a little bit worried about it. I don't see any skeptics on the > guest speaker list, and I like the balanced conferences. When you find a balanced conference, let us know. <g> Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:02:26 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:47:04 -0500 Subject: Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article >From _UFO BRIGANTIA_, July 1990 WILBERT SMITH and MJ-12 by Christopher D. Allan The older generation of UFO buffs may remember some articles in FLYING SAUCER REVIEW during the period 1958-1962 written by the Canadian ufologist Wilbert B. Smith. Wilbert Smith was a Canadian civil servant and engineer, specializing in radio and telecommunications, who worked in the Department of Transport. He had a strong interest in UFOs from the outset of the UFO era and was impressed by the first two books to be published: FLYING SAUCERS ARE REAL by Donald Keyhoe and BEHIND THE FLYING SAUCERS by Frank Scully, particularly the latter for reasons we shall see. By 1950 he had become dedicated to the ETH. Some years later Smith became the founder and director of the Ottawa Flying Saucer Club. He died of cancer in 1962. Today Smith's name would be long forgotten were it not for the release of some documents by the Canadian authorities in 1978. Arthur Bray, a Canadian researcher, had applied for the release of the papers relating to two projects: Magnet and Second Storey, which had been classified since the early 1950s. Included among these was a top secret memorandum, written by Smith; this revived interest in Smith's work and, together with the Roswell affair, contributed to the big renewal of interest in crashed UFOs and cover-ups in the 1980s. _Smith's Memorandum_ The memo was written on November 21, 1950 and is entitled GEOMAGNETICS. It is chiefly to do with the study of magnetic phenomena but some 25% relates to flying saucers. The fact that it was classified 'Top Secret' for nearly 20 years has caused ETH supporters to attach great importance to it; in reality its value to ufology is practically zero, as we shall see. Smith had addressed his memo to the 'Controller of Telecommunications' requesting that a project be set up to investigate harnessing the earth's magnetic field and its possible use in the design and construction of a flying disc. This project was duly authorized on December 2, 1950 and became known as Project Magnet. There is no official return memo authorizing the project; only a simple handwritten note on Smith's memo, from C.P. Edwards, Deputy Minister of Transport (Air Services) saying "LOOK, go ahead with it and keep me posted from time to time". For a supposed official top secret project, it is surely most irregular for it to be authorised in this disinterested, almost brush-off like manner. Whilst the project did have official backing, it was only a spare time exercise. However, Smith was allowed to use the facilities at the Defence Research Board for his work. The head of the DRB at the time was Dr. O.M. Solandt, who is mentioned in Smith's memo. Solandt had a passing interest in UFOs, of which more later. The Smith memo contains four short paragraphs which refer to the U.S. government's interest in Flying Saucers. One paragraph says that the matter is more highly classified even than the H-bomb (this was in 1950), while another says that a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush is making a "concentrated effort" to discover the modus operandi of the flying discs. It is these two remarks that form the real hard core of the memo for dedicated ETHers, but their true significance has been grossly overestimated, as I intend to show. We do not know how many people saw the memo in 1950, or how they reacted. What we do know is that it launched Project Magnet. We also know that it was kept hidden for nearly two decades, which may seem an inordinately long time but is less than most of the early U.S. documents released under the FOIA, some of which stayed under wraps for 30 years or more. After the publication of the Condon Report in January 1969 (which contains a brief section on official UFO study in Canada), Dr. Peter M. Millman of the National Research Council of Canada, who served on Second Storey, recommended that the Magnet and Second Storey files be declassified. Following this, a Canadian government memo of Sept. 15, 1969 down-classified the files to the 'confidential' level, adding that they would be made available to persons in a bona-fide organisation, but that "at no time should it be made available to the public". It also said that the file "should not be destroyed until such time as this subject has cooled off". In other words, the Canadian authorities wanted to allow a period for interested parties to view the files before disposing of them; hardly the action of an authority intent on covering up important UFO data. Whether anyone took advantage of this opportunity to view the Magnet & Second Storey files we do not know, but the files were obviously not destroyed. A copy was eventually obtained by Arthur Bray in 1978 as stated. If Smith's memo was seen by anyone in the period 1969-78 nobody thought it important enough to mention it or to request a copy Stanton Friedman obtained the memo in 1979 and gave Bill Moore a copy. Portions of it appeared in the ROSWELL INCIDENT, published in 1980. In due course others got hold of it and paraded it as strong evidence of crashed saucers and official cover-up. _PROJECTS Magnet and Second Storey_ Magnet was essentially a part-time effort headed by Smith to understand the principles of UFO propulsion and, if possible, to build a working model. Smith seemed to invest it with an aura of high secrecy and, with the Canadian government understandably not wanting the publicity over a project they regarded as akin to borderline science, little or no news of it appeared. The Shirley's Bay observatory, set up in 1953 as a UFO 'detecting station', seems to have come to an early demise. The names of the other scientists involved appear in ref 1. Magnet gradually petered out in 1953-54 without ever achieving much. Certainly no working flying disc was ever built. Second Storey was under the chairmanship of Dr. Peter Millman. This ran concurrently with Magnet for about two years and Smith served on its committee. It was essentially a UFO investigation project but it too seems to have become dormant and came to an end in about 1954. The only public report we know of is one written by Smith, containing the analysis of 25 sightings in 1952, all in Canada. The majority of these relate to night lights. Smith's final report on Project Magnet, which included the results of the second Storey investigations, was not accepted by the Dept. of Transport and must have been a big disappointment for him. There is no mention of Vannevar Bush, no mention of a secret U.S. project of any kind in Smith's report; nor is there any indication in the report itself that it was ever classified, although it was held in a classified file until 1969 and released, as said earlier, in 1978. _The Sarbacher Connection_ In his 1950 memo Smith makes the startling statement that UFOs are classified "higher than the H-Bomb". He learned this, he says, through "discreet enquiries he made at the Canadian Embassy in Washington." What happened was that Smith was Canada's representative at a radio & broadcasting conference in Washington D.C. in September 1950. During this period he had visited the embassy and raised the subject of UFOs. Scully's book had just been published, with its stories of crashed discs, little green men, and revelations about UFOs being powered by unusual magnetic forces. This caused quite a stir and the book was undoubtedly the talk of the town. An official at the embassy (Lt. Col. Bremner) knew Dr. Robert I. Sarbacher, a prominent U.S. scientist who was a consultant in guided missiles and who participated in the joint U.S./Canada project known as DEW Line (Distant Early Warning). Bremner knew that Sarbacher was also keenly interested in UFOs and may have read Scully's book. Bremner therefore arranged an interview whereby Smith could put several questions to Sarbacher, via Bremner. It was during the course of this that Sarbacher made the statement: "Yes, it is classified two points higher than the H-bomb. In fact it is the most highly classified subject in the U.S. government at the present time." Sarbacher declined to say more, and revealed absolutely no names. Smith made some handwritten notes of this interview. Smith did not meet Sarbacher direct, so his notes are second-hand, but these notes, which were finally obtained from Smith's son by Bray in 1979, and appear in ref.2, started crashed disc buffs off in a hunt for Dr. Sarbacher in the early 1980s. One researcher, William Steinman, who pestered Sarbacher many times with letters and phone calls during 1983, eventually had a reply dated Nov. 29, 1983. This has also become known as the "Sarbacher letter", later widely published and also shown in ref.2. It gives the impression of providing further proof that the U.S. authorities had crashed discs in their possession. Steinman had suggested the names of about ten scientists who he thought had been involved in crashed UFOs and wanted Sarbacher to confirm these names. Sarbacher said that Vannevar Bush & John von Neumann were "definitely involved". The first point to note is that Sarbacher did not volunteer these names; they were suggested, repeatedly, by Steinman first. The second point is that some 12 months earlier, in summer 1982, both Bill Moore and Stanton Friedman had also tracked down Sarbacher; both had long 'phone conversations with him and Friedman had met him in person in early 1983. In view of Moore & Friedman's very strong pro-ETH bias there is no telling how much Sarbacher had been indoctrinated with crash saucerology before Steinman contacted him. In 1985 other ufologists, including Jerry Clark and Bruce Maccabee, also met with Sarbacher; but some of the facts he told them do not tally with what he wrote to Steinman, and do not in any way support the Roswell story, still less MJ-12's existence. For example: in his 1983 letter he says he had "no connection with any people involved in the recovery", yet he told Clark in 1985 that Bush and von Neumann were involved and that they _told him_ about the recoveries (see FATE, March 1988). Concerning an alleged recovery of a UFO: Sarbacher, both in his letter and in his 1985 talk with Maccabee, refers to the aliens as "like insects". None of the crash/retrieval stories (Roswell, Aztec, etc) mentions insects, and it seems clear that Sarbacher is merely recalling office discussions of long ago on Gerald Heard's _Is Another World Watching_, published soon after Scully's book (ref.3). Even Sarbacher's 1950 "higher than the H-bomb" statement can be interpreted as a reference to the Air Force Project (which was certainly highly classified) plus data picked up from the Keyhoe & Scully books, boosted by a few office rumours. There is _no mention whatever_ in Smith's 1950 Sarbacher notes of any project remotely resembling MJ-12, _no mention_ of crashed discs or alien bodies, and _no mention_ of Bush or anyone else. Neither is there the slightest chance that Sarbacher, had he known of a genuine recovery of a UFO that was classified Top Secret, would have passed on any indication of this fact to Smith, a Canadian citizen with no "need to know". In summary, everything in Sarbacher's 1950 answers to Smith can be accounted for by his obvious enthusiasm over the early UFO literature, conversation among work colleagues, plus a good dose of the Washington rumour machine. As I have said, Scully's book was the talk of the town. His 1985 statements are based on shaky 30-year old memories, together with repeated 'name planting', suggestability and undue pressure from eager crashed disc addicts in the early 1980s. Sarbacher died in 1986. _The Bush Connection_ One unresolved question is: from whom did Smith learn about Dr. Bush leading a team to discover the modus operandi of the saucers? No one will ever know for certain, but it was almost certainly someone he met on his Sept. 1950 Washington visit, either an embassy contact, or maybe Donald Keyhoe. Keyhoe had met with Smith several times during this visit; they discussed UF0s at length and even prepared a joint article which they hoped to publish in TRUE magazine (ref.4). The article was based on Smith's current ideas on the propulsion of UFOs. Smith hoped his work, soon to be launched as Project Magnet, would give him access to similar work he was led to believe was being done by Bush in the U.S. More important, if Bush could be persuaded to give some seal of approval to Smith's work, obviously Smith would gain considerable recognition as a scientist/engineer. Remember that Smith was at this time hoping to construct a working flying disc based on the principles outlined in his joint paper with Keyhoe. Further official papers, released with Smith's memo, reveal that Keyhoe had been entrusted by the Canadian embassy to take the joint Smith/Keyhoe paper to Dr. Bush for his views, but there is nothing to indicate this was done. Bush never saw it, the paper did not get beyond the draft stage and was never published. Smith later told Keyhoe that his work was now classified and he could discuss it no longer. Keyhoe, in ref.4, wisely omits all mention of his connection with Bush. There is no doubt in my mind how Dr. Bush came to be linked with UFOs in 1950. He was a top engineer specialising in electricity and magnetism, who had a high security clearance and served on numerous committees. Both presidents Roosevelt and Truman thought very highly of him. He had shown a definite interest in UFOs and had even made an early public statement about them; he may have well considered their mode of propulsion. His name also appears in Scully's book. Had there been any small group, official or private, engaged in the design of a flying disc propelled by electromagnetic means, Bush was an obvious person to lead it. Someone had clearly dropped Bush's name to Smith, who then assumed, wrongly, that Bush was engaged on something very similar in the U.S. and would co-operate with, and give encouragement to, Smith over Project Magnet, Bush's name only came to be involved with crashed disc retrievals long afterwards, in the early 1980s. Certain UFO buffs seized on Smith's 1950 memo, misinterpreted it, then took the Sarbacher letter at face value, and hey presto: Bush had recovered a crashed saucer and seen alien bodies. Eventually, of course, Bush became the principal scientist and organiser of MJ-12. _Smith's writings and theories_ Wilbert Smith had, along with Keyhoe, been a staunch proponent of the cover-up hypothesis. This is apparent throughout his writings, but is noticeably absent from his Magnet report, for obvious reasons. He also had bizarre ideas about physics and the properties of matter. He once invented a device called a 'binding meter' to measure certain areas of 'reduced binding' that he believed existed in the atmosphere and which were the cause of some unexplained airplane crashes that Smith had studied. Smith obtained this information, he says, from various contacts he had with "people from elsewhere". Smith was in fact an early contactee, and had been engaged in such contacts from about 1953. His ideas on UFO propulsion have already been dealt with. Some more of Smith's strange utterances are given in ref.2. He claimed to have been allowed to examine fragments supposedly shot down from a Navy Jet over Washington D.C., but then had to return them to a "highly classified group". He also claimed his research group had recovered one and a half tons of "unidentified metal" in Canada in 1960. (The Condon Report deals with both cases on p.90-92; the first was fictitious, the second was a chunk of ordinary foundry waste). So much for Smith's reliability and credibility. Smith further claimed that official contact with aliens had been established, and in a letter to one researcher even said that "every nation on this planet has been officially informed of the existance of space craft and their occupants from elsewhere" (ref.2). Emotive words for the late 1950s, but mild compared with the ravings of certain fringe types 30 years later. In his terms of reference for Magnet in 1950 Smith wrote: "It is intended to classify this work in its entirety until such time as it can be assessed for its impact on our civilization." Those who read Smith's later attacks on official UFO secrecy were not to know that it was Smith himself, not the Canadian government, that had requested Project Magnet to be kept under strictest security. Smith contributed various philosophical and fringe science articles to FLYING SAUCER REVIEW and ROUND ROBIN (a few are reprinted in ref. 5) up to his death in 1962. It has been alleged that he died of a brain tumour and that this tumour caused the apparent mental derangement affecting his later writings; however Mr. Grant Cameron of Winnipeg assures me that Smith in fact died of stomach cancer; thus there is no reason to put any of his bizarre writings down to a tumour-caused mental disorder. Because Smith had won a posthumous award for his services to broadcasting I asked the Canadian High Commision in London if they had any record of him in their reference material. I also asked if they had any record of Dr. Solandt. They replied saying they had no record of a Wilbert B. Smith, but they supplied a 5-inch column entry for Omond M. Solandt from the Canadian 'Who's Who'. I then wrote to Solandt, asking what he knew about Smith and Project Magnet. He replied in August 1989. Solandt had a low opinion of Smith as a scientist, saying that Smith's experiments on Magnet were later shown to be quite worthless. He also said that Smith was all along obsessed with the idea of an 'Establishment' suppression of UFOs (surprise, surprise!). Interestingly, Solandt confirmed that he knew Dr. Bush quite well and that they often discussed UFOs. There is nothing the least remarkable in this, as plenty of senior scientists in the early post-war era were interested and curious about what was then a new phenomena (many of course still are). Solandt also said that although he was chief of the DRB, and therefore with a far higher security clearance than Smith, he had never heard of any top secret UFO project, despite his friendship with Bush. One other piece of information he told me, which I had _not_ asked for, is most illuminating; "Incidentally, most, if not all, of Smith's work was never really classified top secret or anything else. He never had any institutional base which gave him authority to classify a document. He just put "Top Secret" on his personal papers". Solandt ended by saying that all the others associated with Project Magnet were now dead. _THE MJ-12 Connection_ I think the rest of this story speaks for itself. The Smith memo was the starting point for the MJ-12 forgery. The forger decided that if any documentary evidence of crashed saucers existed, the most likely place was in the formerly classified files of Dr. Vannevar Bush. He accordingly then made a thorough search of these files in the various archives. Not finding such evidence, but nevertheless finding a great many names of top military people and civilian scientists, he then began a search of some of their papers. The Sarbacher letter then came along 'confirming' his hopes. Still the crucial evidence eluded him. He then decided to manufacture a hoax, with Vannevar Bush the obvious scientist-in-charge of a project that never existed. Further research gave the forger what he needed, the appropriate dates, places and people. MJ-12 was thus born. The forger, of course, had to ensure all the persons he had chosen for MJ-12 were dead before the December 1984 date when the film was allegedly sent to Jamie Shandera. The rest is now public knowledge. If any impartial, motivated person were to go through Dr. Bush's files, I am willing to bet a lot of giveaway evidence would show up. I would also bet that the forger had never heard of the word "compartmentalised" until he saw these papers. Yet, there it is, right on page 1 of the Hillenkoetter briefing paper. What an irony it is that a top secret fictitious project was born out of an innocent bit of name dropping by an insignificant Canadian scientist of long ago, in a document he wrote, which, we now have every reason to believe, should never have been classified 'Top Secret' in the first place. # --------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCES 1. 'The Truth About Flying Saucers' Aime Michel (1957) cap 3 of part 3. The other scientists involved were: Dr. James Watt, Mr. John H. Thompson, Prof. J.T. Wilson, Dr. G.D. Garland; with support from Dr. Omond H. Solandt and Mr. Dean Mackenzie. We do not know what proportion of their time was actually spent on Project Magnet or Shirley's Bay. 2. 'Above Top Secret' Timothy Good (Sidgwick & Jackson, London 1987), Chapter 8. 3. 'Is Another World Watching?' Gerald Heard (London, 1950). Heard postulated the UFOs were piloted by a race of intelligent insects. 4. 'Flying Saucers From Outer Space' Donald Keyhoe (1953) Chapter 8. 5. 'The Wilbert B. Smith Collection' Some collected papers of W.B. Smith; W.L. Moore publications (no date). ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: *E-O-F* -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Housekeeping From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 00:22:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:08:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Housekeeping At 09.45 AM 25/01/1997 -0500, you wrote: >A somewhat lean few days for the List - work eating >up my time and trying to pack and get moved. >The coming week will undoubtedly be sparse too - until >the move is completed. >My apologies, >Errol Errol. I think I can speak for everyone on this list when I express my gratitude for the time and work you put down on this list. Jorgen / WUFOC ______________________________________________________________ Thanks Jorgen, I'm keying this with white paint with a miniscule tinge of grey, on my fingers and hair. <G> Sue and I decided to re-paint - arghhh! Friday should see things back to normal (or what passes for...)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 4 From: Masinaigan Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:59:34 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:17:33 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 4 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 4 January 26, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor UFO FLAP SWEEPS MEDITERRANEAN The recent "green fireball" sighting over Rome's Leonardo da Vinci Airport was just the kickoff for a UFO flap that has swept Italy, Sandinia and Corsica during the past two weeks. Eight major sightings are now being investigated by the Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici (CISU), according to their newsletter, the CISU Flash for January 25, 1997. On December 11, 1996, at about 8 a.m., people in the village of Ascoli Piceno in the Sibillini mountain range saw "a flaming object with a (visible) trail" flying high in the sky. Following the sighting, a Fire Brigade helicopter spotted a mysterious pond of melted snow near the peak of Mount Vettore. (See the Italian newspaper Corriere Adriatico for December 12, 1996. CISU investigator: Carlo Cruciani) On January 5, 1997, at 7:10 a.m., a man and woman in Abbadia di Fiastra, Macerata province, spotted "a soundless, strange green light moving high in the sky." The couple had it in view for a few minutes before it flew away. (See the newspaper Il Resto del Carlino for January 9, 1997. CISU investigator: Simone Grandicelli) On the afternoon of January 7, 1997, a family of four at Arlena di Castro in Viterbo province sighted "a white ball passing through the sky." (See the newspapers Corriere di Viterbo and Il Messaggero for January 9, 1997. CISU investigator: Angelo Ferlicca) A few hours later on January 7, "a bright pulsing light in the sky" was seen at La Spezia. (See the newspaper La Nazione for January 9, 1997. CISU investigator: Monica Bottino) On January 12, a UFO made an appearance over the island of Sardinia. At 11 p.m., an engaged couple having a quite cuddle at Villamassargia were suddenly interrupted by "a large circle of beam-emitting light circling in the sky." The UFO hovered for about 20 minutes before taking off. (See the newspaper L'Unione Sarda for January 13, 1997. The case was investigated by Antonio Cuccu of CISU) The following day, January 13, a bowl-shaped UFO appeared over mainland Italy. At 8:20 p.m., three men at Albacina watched "a half-moon object hover above a hill" for about three minutes. (See the newspapers Corriere Adriatico, Il Messaggero and Il Centro for January 15, 1997. CISU Investigators: Simone Grandicelli and Renzo Cabassi) On January 14, 1997, at 8 p.m., two tourists in the town of Prignano, near Salerno, gaped in amazement as "a luminous cone-shaped object with rotating lights" rose above the rooftops. The UFO failed to keep its equilibrium and turned turtle several times while it was airborne. (CISU investigator: Giorgio Russolillo) On January 15, 1997, at 5 p.m., people in the city of Piacenza called police to report "a gray oval-shaped flying object" passing over their homes. Three hours later, at 8:15 p.m., "two white rotating lights" were spotted in Fiumicino, a suburb of Rome. The UFOs were videotaped by onlookers and vanished after 20 minutes. (See the newspaper Corriere della Sera for January 16, 1997. CISU investigators: Marco Bianchini and Giancarlo D'Alessandra) (Editor's Comment: I think we can write off the Prignano UFO as a prankster's hoax. The Mount Vettore case is interesting, though. Whoever heard of unfrozen water on an Italian mountaintop in the middle of winter?) NEW FLAP ROCKS QUEENSLAND Queensland and Western Australia were rocked by a four-day UFO flap just prior to Christmas. Sightings began the night of December 18, 1996 on the Queensland "Gold Coast" between Brisbane and Gladstone. A man living in the Auburn range northwest of Gayndah, 30 kilometers (19 miles) from the coast reported "seeing a group of spinning, rotating lights about 40 meters (130 feet) away." The lights hovered for five minutes and then zipped away toward the coast in the direction of Burleigh Head. That same night, December 18, people living in Burleigh Waters phoned police to report a UFO. They all described the same object, which "appeared to be a revolving cigar-shaped object with bright white lights." Witnesses said they observed the lights coming from "several square windows along the side" of the UFO. A few hours later, December 19, the theatre of UFO action switched to sparsely-populated Western Australia. At 2 a.m., residents of the seaport city and state capital of Perth sighted "twelve spinning lights behind and above cloud cover," moving west towards the Indian Ocean. At 2:30 a.m. on December 19, residents of the port town of Coolangatta, on Australia's east coast south of Brisbane, saw "twelve circles of spinning lights 3 to 4 kilometers (2 to 3 miles) out to sea." The following night, December 20, people living in the port of Townsville in northern Queensland, 860 kilometers (650 miles) north of Brisbane, reported an overflight of UFOs. On December 21, 1996, at 1:30 a.m., residents of Toowoomba, a Queensland city 128 kilometers (80 miles) west of Brisbane, saw 50 luminous UFOs flying in formation over the city. Their estimated altitude was 400 feet (120 meters) off the ground. (Many thanks to Ross Dowe and Australia's National UFO Hotline for this report.) LARGE SAUCER SEEN IN PORTUGAL On Monday, January 20, 1997, two men in the town of Covilha, in the mountainous Beira Baixa region of Portugal, spotted a large UFO flying over the Serra da Estrela range after dark. Carlos Arruda and Sergio Mendes were standing on the street when they noticed "one big light in the sky" near Pico da Estrela mountain "moving from east to west and heading for the Atlantic." "The light was big and round and always changing in color," Arruda said. "First it was strong white, very strong, and it seemed to be behind the clouds. Its second color was red, and its last (final) color was light blue." As the UFO flew over Covilha, Arruda added, they could make out "Three colors in a circle in the sky. The thing moved quickly to the west." The men lost sight of the UFO once it passed behind the Serra da Estrela ridgeline, heading for Lourosa. (Unsolicited Email) (Editor's Note: Portugal's Serra da Estrela range is a notorious hotspot. In late September, a backpacker was reportedly abducted near Fundao. Three weeks later, there was a case of sheep mutilation in Idanha-a-Nova.) SEVEN UFOs OVER LAKE ONTARIO On Saturday, January 18, 1997, Canadians living on the north shore of Lake Ontario were startled by the sight of a UFO squadron. The seven UFOs, described as "similar to lights in a show on TV," apparently first appeared over the smaller Rice Lake, passed over Harwood and Cold Springs, and crossed the Lake Ontario shoreline near Port Hope, Ontario (population 9,788). Witnesses in Port Hope reported seeing the UFOs flying high and zigzagging across the sky over the big lake at about 7 a.m. (Many thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp and Jennifer Jarvis of MUFON Ontario for this report.) EARLIER CROP CIRCLE IN HEMITT? Last week, UFO ROUNDUP reported the strange case of the "crop circle" etched in cement in the backyard patio of a retired couple living in Hemitt, California. Now some startling new information has been offered in this case. According to retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Steve Wilson, there was a similar incident in Hemitt nearly 35 years ago, back in the summer of 1962. Col. Wilson writes, "In July 1962, I investigated exactly the same kind of circle that was found by Mr. Peffly of Hemitt, Cal., who worked for the (California) Division of Forestry based in Hemitt. This circle appeared at the forestry camp at Puerta La Cruz, where Mr. Peffly worked. (USAF) Tests were done on the substance and it was found (to be) only slightly radioactive. It had also changed the composition of the cement." According to Col. Wilson, the 1962 incident was hushed up by Delta Force, which reportedly threatened Mr. Heffly and his family. (Email Interview) (Editor's Note: The July 1962 incident sounds like a typical "evidence retrieval" by what was then called Operation Moon Dust.) From the UFO Files: LITTLE SAUCER ON THE PRAIRIE This coming week marks the 100th Anniversary of one of the earliest UFO sightings in the United States. The flap took place during the last days of January 1897 in the town of Hastings, Nebraska, 160 miles (256 kilometers) southwest of Omaha. According to the Kansas Semi-Weekly Capital of March 31, 1897, the UFO was seen the morning of Sunday, January 24, 1897. People thought a mysterious inventor was experimenting with an "airship" about 10 miles (16 kilometers) west of the small city. The UFO circled for a few minutes and then zoomed away to the north. Here's the story as it appeared in the Omaha, Nebraska Bee for February 2, 1897: "Several Hastings people report that an air ship, or something of the kind, has been sailing around in the air west of this city. It was first noticed sometime last fall when it was seen floating in the air about 500 feet (175 meters) above the ground, and after standing still for about 30 minutes, it began to to circle about and took a northerly direction for about two miles, after which it returned to its starting place and sank into oblivion." "Since that time it has not been seen until last Sunday evening, when it was observed standing nearly still, a few miles west of Hastings and seemingly about 800 feet in the air." "At first sight it had the appearance of an immense star, but after closer observation the powerful light shows by its color to be artificial. It certainly must be illuminated by powerful electric dynamos for the light sent forth by it is wonderful." "At 9:30 last Monday night (January 25, 1897) the large glaring light was seen to circle around for a few minutes and then descended for about 200 feet, circling as it traveled at a remarkable speed for about two miles and then slowing up it circled for fully 15 minutes, when it began to lower and disappear as mysteriously as it had made its appearance...A close watch is being kept for its reappearance." On February 5, 1897, the Omaha Bee reported that the UFO had been sighted again, this time at Invale, a tiny farm town 40 miles (64 kilometers) south of Hastings, near the Kansas state line. The UFO was seen by people returning from a prayer meeting. "It (the UFO) seemed to be conical-shaped and perhaps 30 to 40 feet in length, with a bright headlight and six smaller lights, three on a side, and seemed to have two sets of wings on a side, with a large fan-shaped rudder," the Bee reported. The Invale witnesses claimed to have heard rumbling engine noises and the voices of the "airship's" occupants. (See the Omaha, Nebraska Bee for February 2 and February 5, 1897, plus the Kansas Semi-Weekly Capital of Topeka, Kansas for March 31, 1897 "Strange Light in the Sky.") FUN UFO WEBSITES Want to keep up with UFO sightings in Sweden? Try http://www.itv.se/~A1142/indexe.htm Banque OVNI in France is a great source for UFO sightings and Fortean events of all kinds. Check in at http://members.aol.com/tgphenix/actuphen.htm UFO News has up-to-date bulletins at their site. Check it out at http://www.realtime.net/~dream/index10.html Not to be missed is our parent site, UFO INFO, at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm And, if you want to read back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, check in at this URL: http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts That's it for this week. American readers, check the clock. It's six hours to Superbowl XXXI. (Go Pats!) Back next week with more news from "the paper that covers the saucers--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any stories from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites provided that they credit the newsletter and the editor by name and cite the date of the newsletter in which the story appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Alfred's Odd Ode # 83 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:40:45 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:08:42 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode # 83 Apology to MW #83 (For January 26, 1997)=20 Today it=92s a football, a shape so familiar, To which millions of eyes will be glued. Consciousness finds this old focus so friendly Though most of the conscious are stewed <g>. The ball is important as an agent only. It *suggests* at what=92s dearly in mind: That *something* really *something-ed*! What=92s found _out_, we _really_ find! That *HONORED* skin conveyed by *HIM* --=20 It MOVED from *here* to *there*!!!! "It is the TRUTH, I *saw* it happen." "It is THE truth, I SWEAR"! But what kind of *truth* is served up neat, So timed, and so digestible, With commercials by the Marlboro man, And a message infinitesimal. I=92ve _lived_ the standard argument As regards a football=92s meaning. An honored trainer of young men to be . . . But. . . could it be worthless -- demeaning . As it=92s precious few that play that game The rest are left to watch. These laugh and scream, ensconced in dream. They shriek, and hitch their crotch. Forgotten for a moment Is the meter needing feeding. . . Or, out you go -- into cold snows. . . Though Bill can ". . .feel you bleeding." So you fall into line, and watch the game. =91Twixt their rock and their own hard place. And UFO=92s are lost to footballs. . . . . .A flash of field lights in your face. And Monday new then comes at last. Where now=92s that truth you witnessed? What of that skin moved *here* to *there*. . . And does it help you with your business? It=92s gone. It matters not.=20 Business _is_ as business _does_. The real truth is pretty scary, So you=92re not looking, just because. And truth=92s lost behind that football, As it soars above so high. It distracts from what=92s beside it =96=20 . . . UFO=92s have lost your eye. . . Lehmberg@snowhill.com Football . . . that=92s the one that=92s pointy on the ends =96 right? Hey, it=92s 6:30 PM central time, Sunday, June 26th =96 time for reruns of Marlin Perkin=92s, Mutual of Omaha=92s -- Wild Kingdom!! Seize you later. And he will, too.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Jan 97 10:26:35 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:22:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: 24 Jan 97 11:57:02 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >I was very surprised to see the posted note from Bob Rickard. I find it very >hypocritical of Rickard to deride Ray Santilli for asserting his copyright over >images from a video which he paid for. Again the issue of copyright rears it's head. Under which company was this copywritten? Why hasn't the film been shown elsewhere other than Japan? >Ray Santilli has considered this a commercial venture from the >beginning, and has never claimed otherwise. I beg to differ, as that was a later suggestion. However, why stop now? This makes both the interview and 'tent' footage that haven't been shown. Is this a case of cold feet? >then I suggest that his publisher should cease copyrighting >Fortean Times and make all information freely available to the UFO community to >use as any of us see fit. << He retains copyright, but has a website. >More to the point, all subscriptions should be free, >and distribution of the magazine at news agents should be free as well. Now, now. You know what goes into producing a magazine... >> This particular knife cuts both ways, you know. << As does distribution of information on the internet, or is he going to diligently pursue the copyright of stolen material on there too? James Diss,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 97 12:34:43 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:25:55 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' John Powell, relisher of fine Texas Gulf Coast Seafood, said; >Although folks who think everything odd in the sky is an alien spaceship >coming to probe their anus are probably quite upset at the attention TST >is getting. I'm not upset, I'm fascinated. And, John... Is you abduction insurance paid up? :) Watch your... uh... dietary habits! ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:42:09 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:27:47 -0500 Subject: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: 22 Jan 97 12:41:04 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Autopsy Cameraman photos > I was shown the video of "Jack" in Ray's office in London back in September. > These images appear to be frame grabs from that same video, portions of which > were licensed for use in a Japanese TV show. Interesting. I was under the impression that the face of the cameraman was supposed to be blacked out in that video. What happened? If Ray wanted to keep this persons identity secret why did he sell copies where you can see his face? There's something very strange about that and i don't think it was a mistake because there's too much at stake here for Ray and this alleged cameraman. I don't know why Ray allowed this, but i find it hard to beleive that it was purely a mistake. I would be willing to bet that there is some financial reason for this release. Maybe to drum up additional interest...i just don't know. But i do not trust Ray. He has played these games for long enough. > > "Jack" is reading the questions, prepared by Bob Kiviat, from the papers he is > holding. He apparently needs his glasses to read, and so has them on for some > of the video, and off for other parts. He speaks directly and with apparent > sincerity directly into the camera when responding to the questions. I noticed > no "growth" on his face, and don't see any in these images. His movements and > his voice could well be those of a man of 80, but I'm no expert on that. Thanks for clearing up the glasses question. But back to my question of the possible growth on his face. What i am referring to is the bright half moon THING in the unenhanced photo on the right side of his face. And in the enhanced photo you can see the bright mark with what looks like a darker spot right below it. At first i thought he might have a mustache which might account for the darkness under his lip, but have since decided that he has no mustache. I think it's just a dark shadow. But there is something dark on the right side of his face right below the bright mark. Am i the ONLY one who sees this? This is best viewed by enlarging to full screen. I wouldn't make such a big deal out of it, but if he has such a growth it might help to identify him. > > The man in the film is one of three things to my mind. He is 1/ an actor hired > to portray the cameraman, or 2/ the real cameraman, or 3/ an imposter who > somehow came into possession of the film and decided to pass himself off as the > cameraman. I have no idea which is true. I think that just about covers it. I would guess that it's a 90% chance that this was an actor probably in disquise. We've all seen Robin Williams in Ms. Doubtfire and Eddie Murphy in The Nutty Professor and there is no limit to what can be accomplished with makeup. I give the other 2 scenarios a 5% chance each. ;) > > Ray is not happy that these photos are on the net, and has said he will assert > his copyright if anyone attempts to put them into print. Bob Kiviat has the > exclusive rights to the video for the USA, and as far as I know is still hoping > to use it in a future follow-up program. This is not surprising at all to me. Ray has milked this thing for all it's worth and he has no intention of revealing the truth. And i can't help but think that this AGAIN is some kind of controlled misinformation on Ray's part. It would not surprise me in the least to learn that this is an actor in the photos. We must learn the identity of this man if at al possible. Maybe the National Inquirer or the Weekly World News will challenge Ray's copyright and show these to the world. These people will print just about anything. :) > > Ray has promised me a first generation VHS dubb of the video for my own > research. If this comes in any time soon, I want to make my own frame grabs. I would like to request a copy of any frame grabs you make. Or better yet, i would like to request a copy of the entire video tape. I can make my own frame grabs. ;) Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:59:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:24:24 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Again, about documents in the Linda case, John Powell asks: > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:21:09 -0500 > >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: FO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > Do you also have the envelopes for each letter? How do the envelopes look? > Same stamps, how are they addressed, etc.? Yep, I've seen the envelopes. Same pattern as the letters -- they vary from individual to individual, just as you'd expect if they were real. One example: "Janet Kimball" (the woman who supposedly saw the abduction from the Brooklyn Bridge) has a trait all her own -- she put adhesive labels with big red borders on her first envelope. On the labels she's written "re: Brooklyn Bridge." Nobody else's envelopes have anything like that. Good question. Glad you asked. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:10:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:41:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:07:14 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 15:27:39 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>>>>That's kind of silly since the majority of observers are casual >>>>>and untrained ......... >>>>JC: If I may tweak the terminology a bit. I believe the last >>>>sentenceshould probably say: "..... since the majority of >>>>"reporters" are casual and untrained." >>>Observers or reporters, same thing. ....snip.... >>JC: Not if you read what Dr. Hynek said. I was just trying to >>point out that many excellent observers do not report their >>sightings. Some of those observers are quite well trained. >Oops, I missed that point. Yes, I think so too. JC: Also, if that one "smoking gun" case was found and the ridicule reduced sufficiently concerning the topic, I believe you would eventually see a number of other cases surface from some of those "technically trained" people that never reported them at the time of their occurrence. What data set would they fall into and how would you handle those? Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Planes Over Trinity From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Jan 97 15:42:57 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:31:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Planes Over Trinity >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:49:58 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Planes Over Trinity >Nice to see you on the list. I think Theresa has proven that claim. Thanks, Rebecca. I've enjoyed following your posts on the CSi UFO Forum! Okay, I thought there was some disagreement still. >It is the leap that there must have been cameras on those planes >and Santilli's cameraman could have been on there as well. Well, if they were truly "observation planes", is it that great a leap to think that there might be cameras aboard? It's certainly a leap to say that Jack Barnett was there. <G> >Theresa has a videotape of some footage from a TV program on the >Discovery Channel, but she does not know what program, that is >aerial footage of Trinity. Hmmm. I should ask her if the weather is overcast in the vid of the test she has. Trinity was pressed for time; so, they risked proceeding during a thunderstorm. Subsequent tests were performed in clear weather. BTW, there's some great stills of Trinity on CSi's Science Forum. Download trinity1.gif, trinity2.gif, and trinity3.gif. Keep up the good work! Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Boylan bulletins From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:13:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:33:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Boylan bulletins >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:26:50 -0600 >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> >To: Galcticon@prodigy.com >Subject: Re: Boylan bulletins >Dr. Shargell, >Back on Wed Dec 11 Dr. Richard Boylan posted some "bulletins" >to the UFO updates email list, to which I subscribe, and which >I have attached below. Now that the Jan 23rd date referenced >in bulletin item 2 (below) has passed without event, I wonder >if you, as the cited originator of the information, might have >any further comment on these predictions for the subscribers to >the UFO Updates list? It gets even better. Boylan posted the following recently on the I_UFO list: --- begin included article --- From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Organization: 24th Street Exchange Date: Sat, 25 Jan 97 09:40:01 -0800 Subject: RE: IUFO: HIATUS To: iufo@world.std.com Sender: iufo-approval@world.std.com Reply-To: iufo@world.std.com -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List > > I will be off-line from now until Jan. 25, due to ateending > >the International UFO Congress. > > Richard Boylan, Ph.D. > good luck! i'd be interested in anything you can report back! > stella Stella Marie, The most interesting lectures at the International UFO Congress were given by former NASA engineer, Lee Shargel, Ph.D. and by Giorgio Bongiovanni, Italian experiencer-stigmatic. We also had a talk by Sir James Anthony, heir to the Hapsburg +$4 trillion fortune, and an experiencer. Sir James seemed to a number of us to closely resemble a Pleidean hybrid. Although 71, he had the look of a man 50 with a thick shock of blonde hair. Dr. Shargel showed gun camera photos of a craft flying near Roswell on July 13th, apparently searching for the wreckage and any survivors of a similar craft which crashed northwest of Roswell around July 4, 1947. Dr. Shargel revealed that the U.S. military have (killer) SDI lasers in orbit around Earth (in violation of the No-Weapons-In-Space treaty.) He displayed a piece of the Roswell saucer composed on 32,000 layers of homogeneous aluminum with dielectric properties. Travis Walton said he say a similar part on the craft he was taken aboard. Shargel revealed that the U.S. has a Diamond Mace craft which can circumnavigate the world in 33 minutes! He showed Clementine leaked photos of extraterrestrial spacecraft and bunkers on the Moon's far side. Dr. Shargel revealed that he worked at a supersecret huge underground facility at China Lake Naval Weapons Research Station in the northern Mojave Desert near Ridgecrest, California. The facility is known as "The Mine". He says that Area 51 is now just a ruse; that the real ET craft research and development is taking place at The Mine. Shagel's most astounding presentation was that one day seven China Lake scientists including himself were working on the surface on China Lake NWRS when a clear plexiglass-like bubble appeared next to them containing three dolphinoid extraterrestrials with webbed arms, fetus-like hands, and legs but a Flipper-like face. The contact was photographed and arrangements are being made that it will be shown on television. Later Dr. Shargel privtely showed me the photographs which are quite spectacular. Sicilian Stigmatic Giorgio Bongiovanni said that a Vatican Monsignor appeared on Italian national television and pronounced that the Vatican admits the existence of extraterrestrials. He says there is a secret internal war going on within the Vatican betweenm the political side [my comment: read Bilderberg ops] and the spiritual mission side, with the Pope in the middle. He said that the Third Fatima Prophecy was revealed through a leak to a German magazine in October, 1993 after the Vatican shared the Third Prophecy with the heads of many states. The Third Prophecy (given by the female extraterrestrial in the second decade of this century to three Portuguese shepherd children, and confirmed by multiple close overflights by UFOs, interpreted by the pious as the Virgin Mary or the Sun closely approaching) predicts: a Third World War involving weapons of mass destruction; a doctrinal crisis within the Catholic Church with a Pope betraying the church, and that cognizant beings will visit the Earth in the second half of the Twentieth Century. Bongiovanni added that Vatican spokesman Monsignor Conrado Balducci confirmed the published contents of the Third Prophecy. Bongiovanni says that many state politicians know the contents of the Prophecy. He also showed a photograph of a UFO over the Vatican which sent out a shining small orb probe. Sir James Anthony said that the Hapsburg fortune gold is stored in caverns under Victorio Peak on the White Sands Missile Range, a huge Department of Energy facility in New Mexico! There were many other familiar speakers at the International UFO Congress at Laughlin, Nevada, which lasted January 18-24, 1997. Rich Richard Boylan, Ph.D. --- end included article --- A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Altavista - More on "lee shargel" From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:40:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:37:18 -0500 Subject: Altavista - More on "lee shargel" Whoa, this is getting _real_ interesting. I think we definately have a match here, folks. " Dr." Lee Shargel is a _science fiction_ writer. URL - http://www.bocklabs.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/wri-print?Shargel_Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shargel, Lee (aka n/a) Email: JMMQ06A Agent: Deborah Smith Address: 4711 N.W. 82nd Ave. Fort Lauderdale, FL 33351 Phone: 305-572-9948 Published works: =95100 Years of Moving Pictures, Faircount, 11/95, Science Fiction,=20 Film/Cinema/Stage=95Voice In The Mirror, TOR, 4/96, Science Fiction=95 Welcome to Hardrock-Penal Colony Gamma 5, Paramount, 4/94, Science=20 Fiction=95Telecommuting in Cyberspace, Predictions/England, 7/93, Science=20 Fiction=95Chulos, TOR, 2/93, Science Fiction=95Auto-Erotica, Penthouse,=20 6/95, Erotic Fiction=95Shakespeare & Socrates, Veerhoven, 1991, 1992, 1993 1994, 1995, 1996 (series), Juvenile Fiction Interests: Sci-Fi, Screenplays, Mystery, General Interest Articles Biographical statement: Mr. Shargel is a former NASA scientist. began writting in 1990 fulltime. Winner of national playwrights award for We Can make A Difference.=20 Active lecturer on UFO's, ET's and astronomical phenomena. Lives in FL=20 with his two ocelots, Shakespeare & Socrates. --- end included article --- Don "A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:26:45 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:30:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:05:48 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Autopsy Cameraman photos > >I wonder...did he remove his glasses during the interview or am i wrong > >about the no glasses? > > Yes, glasses in one photo and not the other. Bob explained that part. > > > It also looks to me like he has either a mole or > >some kind of growth on the right side of his face near the mouth. What is > >that? > > He has a sort of craggy, jowly face, which enhances the effect of the mole > in the right side of this face. Also the glare enhances this. There can't be too many folks that look like this guy. The mole might be the thing that helps identify him. {snip} > >I think this might turn out to be the first REAL lead we've had on this > >controversial issue in a long time. I think that learning the identity > >of this alleged cameraman might possibly be our last chance to learn the > >truth and genesis of this film. > >What do you think? > Well, its one of the first _real_ items of the entire fiasco, I mean case. > So far, there's no film, no actual film labels, no other physical evidence. > This is obviously a real person... Exactly! And that is why this lead might be our last chance to solve this. This cameraman...if he is real and not some actor in disquise could answer most all our questions. > Unfortunately, less than 1% of the US population is on the Internet. Maybe > Fox could put his picture on TV??? If some one who just take a chance and publish them. :) Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Alfred's Odd Ode # 84 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:04:11 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:42:57 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode # 84 Apology to MW #84 (For January 27, 1997)=20 I should take a moment to try to put right A smeary campaign of dis-info in sight. Laurence Rockefeller is not a rich 'spook'. He=92s not a 'new-ager', he=92s not an old 'kook'. He rates the least in the way of *some* others, Those that have cheated their sisters, and brothers. He spoke out real early as regards the environment. He stood enlightened when there was no requirement. He=92s used his endowment to look at the mystery. He shoots full of holes our contrived human history. He=92s feared as a card-player that just won=92t stand pat! He=92s gutsy, got savvy, and he wears different hats! He=92s greasing the rails that will lead to new finds. He=92s lifting us up, he=92s broadening our minds. If even John Mack drives up with a load. . . Even if Greer turns from prince to a toad. . . He=92s got the moxy to be culture=92s enema, When others are moaning, "Oh hummina-hummina. . ." Relief will be ours, perhaps due this old coot <g>; And of this I am sure, as sure=92s I=92m not Newt! So, as hard as it is to respect the big money, Find "Rocky L." to be one =91twas not funny. He canted a way perhaps good for us all. Perhaps he=92s the reason we=92ll all stop our crawl! Lehmberg@snowhill.com The only advice I could offer the gentleman is that he put Rebecca Schatte on his payroll with all deliberate speed. She=92s got time, drive, and an acerbic imagination. She is not a fool to be _underestimated_, _quickly judged_, or _casually dismissed_ =96 much like L. Rockefeller.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Altavista search results on "Lee Shargel" From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:16:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:35:37 -0500 Subject: Altavista search results on "Lee Shargel" Hmmm. The very FIRST link is VERY interesting. Unfortunately, it's dead and can't be followed up. "science fiction" ? The plot thickens. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D [AltaVista] [Advanced Query] [Simple Query] [Private eXtension Products] [Help with Query]=20 Search the Web Usenet=20 Display results Compact Detailed=20 Tip: Do not use AND or OR to combine words, simply type a few words or=20 phrases.=20 =20 Word count: lee shargel: about 10 Documents 1-9 of 9 matching the query, best matches first. Author's Biography - Lee Shargel Author's Biography Lee Shargel. Lee Shargel began his professional=20 writing career in 1988 with the publishing of his first work of science=20 fiction... http://users1.ee.net/pmason/lee_bio.html - size 4K - 31 Oct 96 Farsight Institute Discussion Area Philosophical Discussion. Have a question about SRV? Want to share your=20 thoughts or feelings about the Ethics of SRV, or what open contact with=20 the ETs... http://www.farsight.org/wwwboard/wwwboard.html - size 41K - 5 Dec 96 International UFO Congress: UFO Facts, UFO Pictures, and UFO Videos FO, UFOs, Unidentified Flying Objects, UFO Facts, UFO Pictures, UFO=20 Videos, International UFO Conferences, Flying Saucers, Flying Cigars,=20 Flying Triangles http://www.padrak.com/ufo/index.shtml - size 9K - 3 Dec 96 http://www.padrak.com/ufo/ - size 9K - 3 Dec 96 TERRA NOVA PROGRAMMING This Week on TERRA NOVA. Go to the stories archive. 1.CATHOLIC CHURCH=20 HAS OPEN MIND ABOUT LIFE ON MARS. 2. SNAPSHOT MAY PROVIDE A POSSIBLE TWA 800 CRASH... http://www.cheney.net/terranova/week2.html - size 9K - 9 Sep 96 No Title Wesnet News. Visitors from the Galactic Federation? 12/3: MSNBC=20 report:=A0Comet stirs up terrestrial tempest. Lick Observatory denies=20 report. According. http://www.sonic.net/~west/visitors.htm - size 14K - 4 Dec 96 6TH IUFOC Schedule Page Return to the 6TH IUFOC Main Page. 6TH IUFOC SCHEDULE PAGE. Last=20 Revisions Received: October 31, 1996. 6th Annual International UFO=20 Congress Convention... http://www.padrak.com/ufo/SCHED_1997.html - size 8K - 1 Nov 96 Planet Travel - Where Fun and Travel begins! Touch Here Richard Hoagland's Interstellar Enterprise Mission. Touch=20 Here World Class Travel -- Independent Travel Agents. Independent Travel Agents... http://www.hoagland.com/ - size 8K - 6 Dec 96 The 1997 International UFO Congress - Biggest UFO conference -=20 convention The International UFO congress - convention, Film Festival and EBE=20 Awards banquet - top UFO researchers on aliens, UFOs, paranormal topics. Biggest UFO http://www.anw.com/ufocongress/index.htm - size 7K - 6 Jan 97 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Surprise . Legal . FAQ . Add URL . Feedback . Graphics ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Copyright =A9 1996 Digital Equipment Corporation. All rights reserved.=20 "A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Article from Emory University Web Site From: paa3765@dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 09:45:24 est Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:44:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Article from Emory University Web Site Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:06:54 -0500 To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>Judy Tuttle" <lotus144@usa.net> From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Article from Emory University Web Site >From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) >Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL >To: (Mailing list) <skywatch@wic.net>, >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:31:11 -0700 >Subject: Skywatch: Article from Emory University Web Site >The Courtney Brown affair and academic freedom >[...] >>Brown, who >>directs the "Farsight Institute" in Atlanta, offers seminars--at a cost >>of $3,000 per head--that promise to provide attendees with the psychic >>abilities he has mastered. >Somebody should spend the $3000, take the 'course' and report on what they >learned... Go right ahead -- I'll be right behind you! Steve Adams
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 BWW MA FLASH! From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:18:11 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:39:04 -0500 Subject: BWW MA FLASH! Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) January 26, 1997 BUFO ON TV AND ON THE RADIO I've been asked for some information on where to see STRANGE UNIVERSE. I've also just found out that I will be on the END OF THE LINE national radio show (with host Jeff Rense) on Tuesday from 5:00 pm to 7:00 pm Pacific (8 to 10 pm Eastern). It'll be a two-hour bit on OPUS, and I'll be on with Les Velez, Vice-President of OPUS. Also, I'll do my regular radio bit which is normally on the last Friday of the month this coming Tuesday (1/28) in the 7:00 AM hour on KBHG (95.9 FM) in Healdsburg, CA, with host Aaraon Machado. I'll be discussing THE YEAR IN WEIRD 1996. STRANGE UNIVERSE is doing a piece on OPUS...you'll probably see about ten seconds of me, although they shot quite a bit. Don't watch it just for that, though...I don't speak for OPUS on these e-mailing lists, but I really do support it. It's syndicated, five nights a week. For instance, in the San Francisco area, it's usually on at 10:00 pm on KBHK channel 44 (cable channel 12 on most systems). On Friday, when the OPUS piece will be on, it has been pushed back to 11:00 pm (I guess they didn't get the local tie-in). Anyway, here are stations for that: Abilene KDT, Ada-Ardmore KOKT, Albuquerque KASY, Alexandria, LA WNTZ, Alpena WALP, Anchorage KYES, Atlanta WAGA, Augusta WBEK, Austin, TX KNVA, Bakersfield KUZZ, Baltimore WNUV, Bangor WLBZ, Baton Rouge WGMB, Billings KHMT, Birmingham WABM, Boise KHDT, Boston WABU, Bowling Green WBKO, Buffalo WGRZ, Burlington-Plattsburgh WWIN, Champaign WAND, Charleston,SC WBNU, Charlotte WFVT, Chattanooga WFLI, Cheyenne KLWY, Chicago WCIU, Chico KDQT, Cincinnati WSTR, Cleveland WAKC, Columbus, GA WSWS, Columbus, OH WTTE, Cookeville, TN WKZX, Dallas KXTX, Dayton WHIO, Denver KTVD, Detroit WXON, El Paso KZIA, Elmira WYDC, Eugene KEVU, Evansville WAZ, Flint WSMH, Florence, SC WEYB, Fresno KAIL, Ft. Smith KPBI*, Grand Rapids WOTV, Green Bay WLUK, Greensboro WXLV, Greenville-Spartanburg WFBC, Harrisburg, PA WHP, Hartford-New Haven WTVU, Houston KTXH, Huntsville WYLE, Indianapolis WXIN, Jackson, TN WMTU, Jacksonville WNFT, Johnstown-Altoona WWCP, Kansas City KSMO, Knoxville WAQ, Lafayette, LA KADN</a>, Lake Charles KPLC, Lansing WSYM, Las Vegas KUPN, Lexington WTVQ, Lima WOHL, Lincoln KTVG, Little Rock KLRT, Los Angeles KCOP, Louisville WDRB, Lubbock KLBK, Macon WPGA, Madison WMSN, Memphis WPTY, Miami-Ft. Lauderdale WDZL, Milwaukee WDJT, Minneapolis-St.Paul KMSP, Mobile-Pensacola WFGX, Monroe KARD, Monterey-Salinas KCBA, Montgomery, AL WAKA, Morgan City, LA KBJ, Nashville WZTV, New Orleans WUPL, New York WWOR, Norfolk WVBT, Odessa-Midland KPEJ, Oklahoma City KOKH, Omaha KOXO, Orlando-Daytona, WRBW. Paducah-Cape Gir WQTV, Philadelphia WTXF, Phoenix KUTP, Pittsburgh WPXI, Portland, ME WCSH, Portland, OR KPTV, Providence WNAC, Raleigh-Durham WKFT, Reno KRXI, Richmond WRLH, Roanoke WDRG, Rochester, NY WBTW, Sacramento-Stockton KOVR, Salt Lake City KTVX, San Angelo KIDY, San Antonio KMOL, San Diego KUSI, San Francisco KBHK, Santa Barbara KADY, Savannah WUBI, Seattle-Tacoma KCPQ, Shreveport KMSS, Sioux City Ch 44, South Bend WBND, Springfield, MO KWBS, St. Louis KTVI, Stuart, FL WTCN, Syracuse WIXT, Tallahassee WTWC, Tampa-St. Petersburg WWWB, Terre Haute WBAK, Toledo WTV5, Traverse City/Cadillac WGKI, Tri-Cities-, istol WAPK, Tucson KTTU, Tulsa KOKI, Twin Falls K68, Tyler KLSB, Utica WFXV, Victoria KAVU, W. Palm Beach WING, Waco KWKT, Washington, DC WUSA, Wichita KSAS, Wilkes Barre WYLN END OF THE LINE will cover OPUS for two hours on Tuesday. It can be heard on TALKAMERICA on the Internet, but don't ask me how. If I find out, I'll let you know. The call-in number is 1-800-298-TALK. The stations for that are: AL, FLORENCE , WBCF-AM, 1240, Huntsville-Decatur-Florence , AR, EL DORADO, KELD-AM, 1400, Monroe-El Dorado , AR, LITTLE ROCK , KSYG-AM, 1010, Little Rock-Pine Bluff , AR, HOT SPRINGS, KZNG-AM , 1340, Hot Springs CA , PALM SPRINGS, KSPI-AM , 1450, Palm Springs, CA, REDDING, KNRO-AM, 600, Chico-Redding CA , AUBURN, KAHI-AM, 950, Sacramento, CA, SANTA BARBARA, KQSB-AM, 990, Santa Barbara-Ventura-Santa Maria , CT , WATERBURY WATR-AM, 1320, Hartford, New Haven , CT , BRIDGEPORT, WICC-AM , 600, New York City , FL, BRANDON , WBDN-AM, 760 , Tampa Bay, FL, W. PALM BEACH, WBTZ-AM, 1290 , West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce, FL, PANAMA CITY, WYOO-FM, 101.3, Orlando-Daytona Beach , FL, MARATHON, WFFG-AM, 1300 , Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, FL, LAKE WALES, WIPC-AM, 1280, Tampa - St. Petersburg, FL, EUSTIS, WKIQ-AM, 1240 , Orlando-Daytona Beach, FL, MELBOURNE. WMEL-AM, 920 , Orlando-Daytona Beach , FL, MELBOURNE, WTAI-AM, 1560, Orlando-Daytona Beach , FL, SANFORD, WTRR-AM, 1400, Orlando-Daytona Beach , FL, MARIANNA, WTYS-AM, 1340, Panama City , FL, Panama City, WYOO-FM, 101.3, Panama City , FL, DE LAND , WXVQ-AM, 1490, Orlando-Daytona Beach, GA, WARNER-ROBBINS, WITK-AM, 1600, Macon , GA, MACON , WQTK-AM, 1280, Macon, ID, BLACKFOOT, KECN-AM , 690, Idaho Falls-Pocatello , ID, IDAHO FALLS, KICN-AM , 1260, Idaho Falls-Pocatello, IL, ALTON, WBGZ-AM, 1570, St. Louis , IL, DECATUR , WDZ -AM, 1050, Champaign-Springfield , IL, BELLESVILLE , WIBV-AM, 1260, St. Louis , IL, PEORIA , WIRL-AM, 1290, Peoria-Bloomington , IL, KEWANEE , WKEI-AM, 1450, Davenport-Rock Island , IL, PRINCETON , WZOE-AM, 1490, Davenport-Rock Island , IL, TAYLORVILLE , WTIM-AM, 1410, Davenport-Rock Island , IN, NEWBURGH, WGAB-FM , 106.1, Evansville , IN , ANDERSON , WHBU-AM , 1240 , Indianapolis, IN, HUNTINGTON , WPDS-AM, 1300, Ft. Wayne , IA, SIOUX CITY , KMNS-AM, 620, Sioux City , KS, WINFIELD, KKLE-AM, 1550, Wichita-Hutchinson, KS, WELLINGTON , KLEY-AM, 1130, Wichita-Hutchinson,KS, WICHITA , KNSS-AM, 1240, Wichita-Hutchinson,KY, LEXINGTON , WVLK-AM, 590, Lexington, KY, FT. KNOX, WEIL-AM, 1490 , Louisville , LA, DELHI, KGGM-FM, 93.5, Monroe-El Dorado , LA, COVINGTON , WASO-AM, 730, New Orleans, LA, SHREVEPORT, WIEL-AM, Shreveport,LA, SHREVEPORT , KEEL-AM, 710, Shreveport , LA, NEW ORLEANS, WTIX-AM, 690 , New Orleans , ME, BATH, WJTO-AM, 1230 , Portland-Auburn, MD, CUMBERLAND , WNTR-AM, 1230, Washtington, D.C.,MA, BOSTON , Cable Ch., 38-B, Boston , MA, BEVERLY, WNSH-AM, 1570 , Boston, MA, FALL RIVER, WSAR-AM, 1480 , Providence, MA, FRAMINGHAM, WKOX-AM, 1200, Boston, MA, ATTLEBORO , WARA-AM, 1320, Providence-New Bedford , MA, SPRINGFIELD, WHYN-AM, 560, Springfield-Holyoke , MA, NEW BEDFORD, WNBH-AM, 1340 , Providence-New Bedford, MA, TAUNTON, WPEP-AM, 1570 , Providence, MI, ADRIAN, WABJ-AM, 1490, Toledo , MI, ST. JOHNS , WWSJ-AM, 1580, Lansing , MI, CHARLEVOIX CITY, WMKT-AM, 1270, Traverse City-Cadillac ,MO, CARUTHERSVILLE, WCRV-AM, 1370, Memphis MS, PEAR, WJNT-AM, 1180, Jackson , MS, MERIDIAN , WMER-AM, 1390, Meridian , MO, CARUTHERSVILLE, KCRV-AM, 1370, Memphis , MO, AURORA, KSWM-AM, 940 , Springfield , MT, DEER LODGE , KDRG-AM, 1400 , Butte, NE, HASTINGS , KICS-AM, 1550, Lincoln-Hastings-Kearn , NJ, ATLANTIC CITY, WFPG-AM, 1450, Philadelphia , NM, CLOVIS, KICA-AM, 980, Amarillo, NM, CARLSBAD , KCCC-AM, 930, Albuquerque-Santa Fe , NY, GLEN FALLS , WBZA-AM, 1230, Albany-Schenectady , NY , MIDDLETOWN , WALL-AM , 1340, New York, NY, UTICA , WRUN-AM, 1150, Utica , NY, GLENS FALLS, WWSC-AM, 1450, Albany-Schenectady , NC, ELIZABETH CITY, WGAI-AM, 560, Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News, NC, HICKORY , WHKY-AM, 1290, Charlotte , NC, LAURINBURG , WEWO-AM, 1460, Florence-Myrtle Beach , NC, WILSON, WVOT-AM, 1420, Raleigh-Durham , NV, LAS VEGAS , KSHAM, 1400 , Las Vegas, OH, LIMA, WIMA-AM, 1150, Lima, OH, NEW BOSTON , WIOI-AM, 1010, Charleston-Huntington , OR, PORTLAND, KBNP-AM, 1410, Portland , OR, COQUILLE , KWRO-AM, 630,Eugene , PA, BEDFORD , WAYC-AM, 1310, Johnstown-Altoona , PA , LORETTA, WEBG-AM , 1400, Johnstown-Altoona, PA, AMBRIDGE , WMBA-AM, 1460, Pittsburgh , SC, FLORENCE , WJMX-AM, 970, Florence-Myrtle Beach , SC, CLINTON , WPCC-AM, 1410 , Greenville-Spartanburg, SC, CHARLSTON , WQNT-AM, 1450, Charleston , SD, RAPID CITY , KIMM-AM, 1150, Rapid City , SD, VERMILLION , KOSZ-AM, 1570, Sioux Falls-Mitchell , TN, OAK RIDGE , WATO-AM, 1290, Knoxville, TN, FRANKLIN , WIZO-AM, 1380, Nashville , TN, FAYETVILLE , WEKR-AM, 1240, Huntsville-Decatur ,TN, JACKSON , WNWS-FM, 101.5, Jackson, TX, TERRELL , KPYK-AM, 1570, Dallas-Ft. Worth , TX, WACO, KWTX-AM, 1230, Waco-Temple-Bryan , TX, SAN ANTONIO, KOAI-AM, 1200, San Antonio , TX, NACOGDOCHES, KSFA-AM, 860 , Tyler-Longview-Lufkin, VT, BARRE, WSNO-AM, 1450, Burlington-Plattsburgh , WA, EVERETT , KRKO-AM, 1380, Seattle , WA, SPOKANE, KSBN-AM, 1230, Spokane , WV, CLARKSBURG , WHAR-AM, 1340, Clarksburg-Weston , WV, BECKLEY, WWNR-AM, 620, Bluefield-Beckley , WV, NEW MARTINS, WETZ-AM, 1330, Wheeling-Steubenville , WI, WAUSAU , WXCO-AM, 1230, Wausau-Rhinelander , VI, ST.THOMAS , WVWF-AM, 1000, St. Thomas Hope you can make it! This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:50:44 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:46:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob, [Shell, Rickard, or which of the 7 other 'Bobs' who subscribe here? - ATTRIBUTION John! QUOTE John! -ebk] You pass over what I believe is the most plausible theory, if you argue the idea that the film is real, or at least that Santilli and Co. had no direct involvement in it's creation. If there exists huge canisters of film of dead aliens getting diced, sliced, and just generally being made a mess of, in the possession of whatever little group is responsible for this whole UFO mess, and....it is your goal to acclimize the world population to the ideas and images of the UFO reality...then how might you best fullfill this agenda? Take select bits of film, carefully edit and splice it down so as to be completely inconclusive, then release it to a Barnum and Bailey style video promoter. A short time later actual images of a dead alien body getting chopped up like Sunday's liver is being simulcast worldwide to the population of the planet. End result? Has *anything* been proven? Of course not. Meanwhile a large segment of the world population has been innoculated, emotionally, intellectually, and visually to the ideas and images of dead aliens. If you include with this particular event a wide range of presumed intelligence operations targeted at manipulating UFO belief systems (MJ-12, Jarod, Lazar, etc.) you find many layers, which include many layers of internal contradictions, which ultimately serve to prime the pump of the evolving UFO myth, right down to the point where it begins writing it's own X-Files scripts. (Blatant denials, especially really ludicrous ones like the "thou dost protest too much" UFO pronouncements, serve equally to prime that pump. Seeming contradictions, no doubt, but how is the USAF served any better than simply standing by their long standing policy of a tacit no comment or denial? Rather, they release *new* explanations for decades old UFO reports (Zamorro, Roswell)!? To what ends? How does this better put the matter to rest? By issuing patently false and ludicrous "explanations" that would take Johnnie Cochran preaching to an OJ criminal trial jury to swallow? The result, even of the denials, is a further stirring of the UFO pot, poking a stick in the noisy bees that wonder about this phenomenon.) The point of the intelligence operation behind SUE is to prove nothing, merely to acclimate the word population. The entire film has been released in such a fashion that it could be manipulated to fine tune the effect it produces. We are all (in this list) generally aware that an entire other film of a SUE like creature (in focus and full of gynecological gore) exists which has not been made available for examination. We are all aware that rolls of physical film stock exist, as well as the old geezer acting as the point man in pumping this nonsense into the Santilli Useful Idiot machine. The ultimate dispensation of these other important pieces of information, whatever the facts might be, would greatly transform the case. That this information is held in check is part of that "control" which is being exercised. The only question remains why would those who seek to control the UFO mythos want to acclimize the public in the first place? That question remains, and while any number of suspicions might be raised, we really just don't know why, or if, that is even the case. I merely point out that were it your goal...to so acclimize the world population to the UFO reality..so acclimize it that were a consensual reality announcement pronounced tomorrow..it would garner barely a yawn, and hold the interest of the average person for no more than a week at most...then the actions we see with the release of the SUE film are having that exact effect, whether or not that was the original genesis of the project in the first place. John
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 10:37:13 cst Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:49:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob Rickard wrote, regarding the Santilli AA video: >The only problem with all these theories is that there is no >independently confirmed (or confirmable) evidence of who made it and >why. Once we know the true genesis of the film before it came to >Santilli, all other questions will be answered, one way or another. Hi Bob, I think you're being overly generous, Bob. It seems to me that, since damn near every claim made by this video's (I say video since no "film" has yet been independently examined) promoters have proved to be bogus, a reasonable observer could not help but come to the conclusion that Santilli's AA video is a hoax perpetrated soley for crass commercial consideration. Is it due to England's notorious libel/slander laws that you're being so circumspect? Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 27 Jan 97 12:32:07 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:52:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:42:10 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > If the film is genuine, then it seems to me that the U.S. >Department of Justice could bring charges of unlawful possession >and sale of government property. To do so would be to admit that it is real. Does anyone really expect the US Govt do do this????????? The copyright question has been discussed in great detail, and opinions from copyright lawyers are that Ray's copyright claims rest on solid precidents. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Wilbert Smith & MJ 12 Article + Mendoza Fan Club From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 27 Jan 97 12:40:01 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:55:13 -0500 Subject: Wilbert Smith & MJ 12 Article + Mendoza Fan Club How nice it is to see a reputable UFO journal being quoted for once on this list! - "Wilbert Smith & MJ 12" by Chris Allan, from UFO Brigantia 1990. Perhaps, as former editor and publisher of UFO Brigantia I should take a Santillian view and immediately initiate legal action................Nahh, you're free to have it if it makes you happy. Please feel free to upload, download or off-load from this journal. I hereby lift all copyright restrictions on its 35+ issues (not that there were any anyway). On the subject of those among the hard of thinking who can't hack the tear-jerking harshness of Peregrine M's book may I humbly supply the review of it which will be going into BUFORA's UFO Times magazine in a week or two....... __________________________________ Peter Brooksmith is a bit of an anomaly among UFO authors. Firstly he's sceptical of the overriding ETH myth and not afraid to say so. Secondly he's a bright bunny, intelligently pointing out flaws in the ufological cant of the last fifty years. Never one to go looking for a mystery where none lies, The Government Files ploughs through the (mainly US) government's involvement with UFOs. All the major cases and documents are dealt with, some perfunctorily, some more detailed, but all with wit and understanding. Does he reveal a Cosmic Watergate? A comic Watergate more like. Confusion, misunderstanding and belief seem to lie at the heart of any governments' UFO dealings and Brooksmith chronicles this well. He also throws in some golden nuggets such as the influence Donald Keyhoe had on the developing UFO mythos in the 50s. The problem is that officialdom is damned if they do, damned if they don't when it comes to releasing information, facts or figures. Whatever is or is not said will be interpreted in the light of prevailing ufological thought. But in lieu of an TV announcement by Bill Clinton that 'they' have landed, these marked and blurred documents are all we have to go on. Actually *looking* at what documents say is a useful excercise. Take, for instance Dr Stone, of O/SI (Office of Scientific Intelligence) and his view of the CIA UFO files up until March 1949, "The 'flying disks' will turn out to be another sea-serpent. However, since there is even a remote possibility that they may be interplanetary or foreign aircraft, it is necessary to investigate each sighting." That succinct and admirably practical statement seems to have been at the heart of every government's involvement since. This doesn't *deny* or *accept* any explanation, just makes the situation clear. Of course cover-up enthusiasts will just say the real 'truth' has been hidden deeper. You can't win. We could argue this back and forwards all day and be non the wiser. With one slight qualification. UFOs *still* have the status of sea-serpents. Other documents demonstrate mystification, puzzlement, interest and the usual array of human reactions to mystery. Let's not forget that government officials are human too and will behave in a similar way to you or I when presented with anomalies. Some will accept mystery, some will deny mystery, some will simply believe. The dangers come when ufologists decide what the documents *really* mean. Brooksmith's approach, whilst finding the loopholes in many cases, neatly avoids this, allowing many to remain unexplained and tantalising. That's the mark of a true sceptic as opposed to a debunker. Suffice to say that Brooksmith's work is factual and detailed enough to warrant you parting with your hard earned cash. It's also broad and deep enough to put the whole thorny cover-up issue in the context it needs to be seen in. BUFORA stalwart Lionel Beer, in reviewing this book for Fortean Times, said it was "...a disappointing potboiler." Presumably because it didn't validate Lionel's beliefs. And that is the whole point Brooksmith is making. There are observations, there are facts and what shapes them into the UFO cover-up is largely belief. He knows ufology is a wonderful mystery, but he also knows it's a mystery of and about its time. Secrets, we've got 'em. But what secrets? His closing paragraph: "The secrets that are revealed by the government files are not those of extra-terrestrials, their craft, their technology or their inscrutable purposes, but those of the human soul and its predicament. But that, Virginia, is another story." UFOs: The Government Files is very well illustrated and indexed and Blandford are to be commended for daring to publish a book which clearly flies in the face of current ufological 'wisdom'. Buy it. Review by Jose Chung
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 27 Jan 97 12:32:05 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:50:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos All, This note is in response to Bob Rickard's post. One possibility which he omits from his list is that the US Govt has taken no action because doing so would be to admit the film is real. As I see it, if it is real and they wish to produce the impression that it is not, their only possible course of action is the one which they have taken ---- to totally ignore the film and wait for it to go away. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:33:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:01:12 -0500 Subject: Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article Very interesting post on Wilbert Smith -- a long essay by Christopher D. Allan, debunking Smith's supposed high status in the Canadian government, and his notes about supposed high-level American UFO secrets. Two notes. Allan writes, about the offhand way in which Smith's Project Magnet was authorized by Canadian officials: > From: legion@werple.net.au > Subject: Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:02:26 +1100 (EST) > >From _UFO BRIGANTIA_, July 1990 > There is no official return memo authorizing the project; only a > simple handwritten note on Smith's memo, from C.P. Edwards, Deputy > Minister of Transport (Air Services) saying "LOOK, go ahead with it and > keep me posted from time to time". For a supposed official top secret > project, it is surely most irregular for it to be authorised in this > disinterested, almost brush-off like manner. Curiously, as I noted here some months ago, Franklin Roosevelt authorized the research that led to the making of the first atomic bomb in just such an informal fashion. I learned this from Richard Rhodes's book, The Making of the Atomic Bomb. Roosevelt fired off a handwritten note to Vannevar Bush, even suggesting that Bush keep it in his personal safe, and (presumbably) not file it with any official documents. I'm not saying that the Manhattan Project itself was authorized so informally when it got underway, or that Project Magnet had any great status. That capitalized "LOOK" at the start of Edwards's sentence, quoted above, does suggest the exasperated tone of someone who, beaten down by Smith's persistence, gave a go-ahead without much interest or belief. About Allen's remarks about Robert Sarbacher, I'm not as sure. > In 1985 other ufologists, including Jerry Clark and Bruce > Maccabee, also met with Sarbacher; but some of the facts he told them > do not tally with what he wrote to Steinman, and do not in any way > support the Roswell story, still less MJ-12's existence. For example: > in his 1983 letter he says he had "no connection with any people > involved in the recovery", yet he told Clark in 1985 that Bush and von > Neumann were involved and that they _told him_ about the recoveries > (see FATE, March 1988). Concerning an alleged recovery of a UFO: > Sarbacher, both in his letter and in his 1985 talk with Maccabee, > refers to the aliens as "like insects". > In summary, everything in Sarbacher's 1950 answers to Smith can be > accounted for by his obvious enthusiasm over the early UFO literature, > conversation among work colleagues, plus a good dose of the Washington > rumour machine. As I have said, Scully's book was the talk of the > town. His 1985 statements are based on shaky 30-year old memories, > together with repeated 'name planting', suggestability and undue > pressure from eager crashed disc addicts in the early 1980s. > Sarbacher died in 1986. My impression, from talking to Jerry Clark, is that Sarbacher was convincing, not least because of his modesty in talking about his peripheral involvement. As I remember, Sarbacher didn't say the aliens were insects. He said (quoting from Clark's UFO Encyclopedia: "I remember in talking with some of the peole at the office that I got the impression these 'aliens' were constructed like certain insects we have observed on earth, wherein because of the low mass the intertial forces involved in operation of these instruments [the flying craft] would be quite low." About the supposed contradiction between knowing and not knowing the people involved in the alleged UFO recoveries, here's a fuller quote from Sarbacher. He's answering specific questions Williman Steinman asked him. "1. Relating to my own experience regarding recovered flying saucers, I had not association with any of the people involved in the recovery and have no knowledge regarding the dates of the recoveries. If I had I would send it to you. "2. Regarding verification that persons you list were involved, I can only say this: [list of names snipped: von Neuman, Bush, Oppenheimer] "My association with the Reseach and Development Board under Doctor Compton during the Eisenhower adminstration was rather limited so that although I had been invited to participate in several discussions associated with the reported recoveries, I could not personally attend the meetings. I am sure that they would have asked Dr. [Wernher] von Braun, and the others that you listed were probably asked and may or may not have attended. This is all I know for sure. "3. I did receive some official reports when I was in my office at the Pentagon but all of these were left there as at the time we were never supposed to take them out of the office." All this indicates less of a contradiction -- and more knowledge of what was going on -- than Allan conveys to us. Bruce Maccabee, according to Clark's encyclopedia, was struck by how little Sarbacher knew about UFO history. That, if true, would make it unlikely that he strung together scraps in the way Allan suggests. This said, I'm glad to see someone looking into the Wilbert-Sarbacher business. It's always struck me as a straw in some kind of wind, but which wind? We need to know more. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 27 Jan 97 13:31:28 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:58:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: Masinaigan@aol.com >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:42:10 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Thingy wrote; >Therefore the >copyright is the property of the U.S. Army. since >Mr. Santilli was merely one of many soldiers involved in the >operation. Mr Santilli is actually a UK businessman who's obviously a lot older than he looks. >If the film is genuine, then it seems to me that the U.S. >Department of Justice could bring charges of unlawful possession >and sale of government property. ..and the explanation for why they wouldn't is fairly easy; "....And further, we are going to prosecute you for ownership of this film." "What film?" "The film with the al..deformed human survivor of the aircrash." "What aircrash...etc." You see, admission of ownership is admission of alien/deformed thingies. Not something that they would logically do under any circumstance. I'm sure that Ray, Gary and Phil are aware of this, one of the reasons why it's so elegant. I don't feel that some of the more pressing questions have been answered fully, such as the classification boards seen at the first screening. It's been put down to Ray's foible, and we're told that Ray is difficult to get. Bam! A picture gets out on the net and suddenly Ray comes alive. Ray, if you're out there, do us a favour and give us some documented evidence that this guy exists. I'm sick to the back teeth with this cloak and dagger BS that just makes everyone more sure that this is a hoax. And no, I've been over every word printed so far, and neither a decent lab work-up, nor corroboration (which T has been trying so hard to do without help) has been forthcoming. One begins to think that this is all the punchline of the joke, 'How do you keep an idiot in suspense....?' James Diss,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 27 NOTICE! (To Canadians) From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:37:23 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:40:37 -0500 Subject: NOTICE! (To Canadians) Just a note to all CANADIAN researchers and investigators: We are now in the late stages of processing the data for the 1996 Canadian UFO Survey. At last count, we have 206 UFO reports on file from contributors across Canada. We would like to get the survey completed soon, so we are giving "last call" for sighting data. We have contributions from BC, Alberta, Manitoba, (some) Ontario and Quebec. We have not yet heard from some of the Ontario groups and at least one Quebec group. We also have not heard from any Maritime provinces, although we know that research and UFO interest out there has picked up in the last year. Although we no longer have the NRC cases, we have some cases which were reported to DOT and DND. More than ever, Canadian UFO research is dependent heavily on individual investigators to share case data and contribute to national analyses. It does no good to investigate UFO sightings and then file the reports away in a drawer; exchanging case data is one way in which all ufologists can benefit from each other. Last call! :) -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:35:40 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:19:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article >From: legion@werple.net.au >Subject: Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:02:26 +1100 (EST) >>From _UFO BRIGANTIA_, July 1990 > WILBERT SMITH and MJ-12 > by > Christopher D. Allan >The older generation of UFO buffs may remember some articles in >FLYING SAUCER REVIEW during the period 1958-1962 written by the >Canadian ufologist Wilbert B. Smith. > Wilbert Smith was a Canadian civil servant and engineer, >specializing in radio and telecommunications, who worked in the >Department of Transport. He had a strong interest in UFOs from the >outset of the UFO era and was impressed by the first two books to be >published: FLYING SAUCERS ARE REAL by Donald Keyhoe and BEHIND THE >FLYING SAUCERS by Frank Scully, particularly the latter for reasons >we shall see. By 1950 he had become dedicated to the ETH. Some ears >later Smith became the founder and director of the Ottawa Flying >Saucer Club. He died of cancer in 1962. > Today Smith's name would be long forgotten were it not for the >release of some documents by the Canadian authorities in 1978. >Arthur Bray, a Canadian researcher, had applied for the release of >the papers relating to two projects: Magnet and Second Storey, which >had been classified since the early 1950s. Included among these was >a top secret memorandum, written by Smith; this revived interest in >Smith's work and, together with the Roswell affair, contributed to >the big renewal of interest in crashed UFOs and cover-ups in the >1980s. [snipped] In my opinion, this isn't much to say for the teamwork and improvisation that went into the projects of investigating during that era. It represents less of a eulogy for the dedication of a sincere scientist who wracked his brain to try to understand the mechanics and physics of the world around him. Sorry, but I had to say that. What isn't even mentioned here is that during Smith's initial researches into electromagnetics and so on, was the fact that he wasn't alone in the unbelievable effort. There were more than a few other scientists and technicians who gave invaluable assistance and support during the projects. While Smith's special projects took place almost fifty years ago, it is possible that a few individuals of the original support teams are still alive and willing to talk about it all even after all this time. I am certain one of those original people would be able to shed some light on this very controversial series of incidents that had left Smith with the resolute conviction that we are not alone in the universe. Curious that a dedicated scientist came to be as vocal as possible to the effect that there's such things as UFO's and such. One thing is for sure. Wilbert Smith and his team were the first ones to visually sight a UFO and to record the effects of electromagnetic fields generated by the proximity of the same craft. For the moment, I would think such evidence is more credible than any kind of polaroid or video of the same exact craft. And, the whole incident is still in archives somewhere in Ottawa. Take care for now, Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Request Alaskian Sighting Reports From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:26:12 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:18:09 -0500 Subject: Request Alaskian Sighting Reports Greetings to All, Would any concerned individuals with information, reports, etc., concerning UFO activities in Alaska, and the great northwest, please email me privately. I am attempting to collect data for a written report to be presented at a local meeting in late winter, '97. I am particularly interested in video, photographic evidence and reports of large craft sighted in or around bodies of water. Also, I may be relocating to central Washington state in the summer of '97. Preparing this document, which will be published on the Net, will allow me to lay the groundwork for possible field investigations in that region. Based on the possiblity of that move, I also request investigators in that region to contact me directly, if they are interested in forming cooperative ventures. I have no knowledge of current investigative organizations or individuals in that area. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Altavista - More on "lee shargel" From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:39:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:20:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Altavista - More on "lee shargel" >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:40:39 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Altavista - More on "lee shargel" >Whoa, this is getting _real_ interesting. I think we definately have >a match here, folks. >" Dr." Lee Shargel is a _science fiction_ writer. >URL - http://www.bocklabs.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/wri-print?Shargel_Lee ===================================================================== Hiya Don, hi all, Don't know why you're so surprised Don, "science fiction" and "spy vs. spy" melodramas are Dr Boylan's stock in trade! Waiting to see if he ends up on the "April Fools" list as well! <G> John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:34:45 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:21:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos Date: 26 Jan 97 01:36:13 EST From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> To: "Errol's UpDates" <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos > There's no question Bob Shell is right that the film/interview of "Jack" is > copyright of whomever shot the film or sold it (and/or the rights) to > Santilli. > This is so whatever you think of Santilli going into bully mode over > publication of the odd clip (Warner Bros wouldn't!). Isn't there something called "Fair Use" where you can extract a certain number of words (I think 200 for printed matter for review purposes) or say a certain number of frames for review purposes. I see in the American magazine "People Weekly" that they have a frame captured from a Larry King TV show in an article about the death of Bill Cosby's son. The credit says: Courtesy CNN. Couldn't that same thing be done for Mr. Santilli's cameraman? Of course, who would you credit, the Japanese or Orbital? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Boylan bulletins From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:38:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:22:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Boylan bulletins >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:13:44 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Boylan bulletins >>Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:26:50 -0600 >>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> >>To: Galcticon@prodigy.com >>Subject: Re: Boylan bulletins >>Dr. Shargell, >>Back on Wed Dec 11 Dr. Richard Boylan posted some "bulletins" >>to the UFO updates email list, to which I subscribe, and which >>I have attached below. Now that the Jan 23rd date referenced >>in bulletin item 2 (below) has passed without event, I wonder >>if you, as the cited originator of the information, might have >>any further comment on these predictions for the subscribers to >>the UFO Updates list? >It gets even better. Boylan posted the following recently >on the I_UFO list: >--- begin included article --- >From: rich.boylan@24stex.com >Organization: 24th Street Exchange >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 97 09:40:01 -0800 >Subject: RE: IUFO: HIATUS >To: iufo@world.std.com >Sender: iufo-approval@world.std.com >Reply-To: iufo@world.std.com >-> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List > > > I will be off-line from now until Jan. 25, due to ateending > > >the International UFO Congress. > > > Richard Boylan, Ph.D. > > good luck! i'd be interested in anything you can report back! > > stella ====================================================================== And here are some of the reasons why abduction experiencers will never be taken seriously! (Thanks again to Dr B for his unceasing efforts to set the whole field back another 20 years!) JV ====================================================================== >Stella Marie, > > The most interesting lectures at the International UFO >Congress were given by former NASA engineer, Lee Shargel, Ph.D. and >by Giorgio Bongiovanni, Italian experiencer-stigmatic. --------------------- If Dennis Stacy is reading this, I know that that Texan is on the floor laughing his kiester off. We had an exchange not too long ago comparing the physical manifestations of the abductees with stigmatics. I told Sasquatch that I didn't think the comparison was valid. Pass the salt Dennis, I'll eat my hat now if that's okay with you. Here's a guy who's a "Stigmatic abductee" and from Sicily yet! Try saying 'stigmatic abductee' real fast three times. <G> --------------------- >We also had a talk by Sir James Anthony, heir to the Hapsburg +$4 >>trillion fortune, and an experiencer. Sir James seemed to a number of >us >to closely resemble a Pleidean hybrid. Although 71, he had the >look of a >man 50 with a thick shock of blonde hair. --------------------- I'd love to know where Dr B saw his [first] "Pleidian hybrid" that he obviously used for comparison! And it wasn't just him,...several of the gathered "experts" concur with the good Doctors assessment! Now, if Sir James had large black almond shaped eyes,... --------------------- >Dr. Shargel showed gun camera photos of a craft flying near >Roswell on July 13th, apparently searching for the wreckage and any >survivors of a similar craft which crashed northwest of Roswell around >July 4, 1947. --------------------- For anyone who may be interested, Whitley Strieber has posted single frame captures of these "gun camera" films. I am very interested in finding out if anyone has any information on these photos. Where did they come from? Are they legit? Have they been verified or analysed? --------------------- >Dr. Shargel revealed that the U.S. military have (killer) >SDI lasers in orbit around Earth (in violation of the >No-Weapons-In-Space treaty.) --------------------- Be nice to get the codes and aim one at Boylans Chrysler! (and or, hot tub!) At least he won't be able to spread any more disinformation if he can't get to his 'gigs', and Lord knows that old misused hot tub needs to be dismantled.<G> --------------------- >He displayed a piece of the Roswell saucer >composed on 32,000 layers of homogeneous aluminum with dielectric >properties. Travis Walton said he say a similar part on the craft he >was taken aboard. Shargel revealed that the U.S. has a Diamond Mace >craft which can circumnavigate the world in 33 minutes! -------------------- The "mace" is housed in a craft resembling a large ladies hand bag. -------------------- >He showed Clementine leaked photos of extraterrestrial spacecraft and >>bunkers on the Moon's far side. -------------------- Did he say "bunkers" or "debunkers" are on the farside of the Moon? -------------------- >Dr. Shargel revealed that he worked at a supersecret huge underground >facility at China Lake Naval Weapons Research Station in the northern >Mojave Desert near Ridgecrest, California. The facility is known as >"The Mine". He says that Area 51 is now just a ruse; that the real ET >craft research and development is taking place at The Mine. Shagel's >most astounding presentation was that one day seven China Lake >scientists including himself were working on the surface on China >Lake >NWRS when a clear plexiglass-like bubble appeared next to them >containing three dolphinoid extraterrestrials with webbed arms, >fetus-like hands, and legs but a Flipper-like face. The contact was >photographed and arrangements are being made that it will be shown on >television. -------------------- (Dolphins? Dr Lily was right!) The government disinformation machine can take an extended vacation, Dr B has everything well in hand! Just remember fellas, the day Boylan retires you'll all have to go back to work! -------------------- >Later Dr. Shargel privtely showed me the photographs which are quite >spectacular. -------------------- And it goes on and on and on,.....the "Energizer Bunny" has nothing on Dr B! All of the efforts being made by many to get the attention of the mainstrean community, lose all force because [we] get lumped in with extremists like Boylan and his new age, prediction making, alien channeling, know it all followers. Thanx again Doc. In "Dolphinese", "skroooo youuu"! <fartwhistleclick> John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Alfred's Odd Sentences at the End From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:37:18 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:23:17 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Sentences at the End Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:04:11 -0600 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode # 84 > The only advice I could offer the gentleman is that he put Rebecca > Schatte on his payroll with all deliberate speed. She=92s got time,= drive, > and an acerbic imagination. She is not a fool to be _underestimated_, > _quickly judged_, or _casually dismissed_ =96 much like L. Rockefeller. Alfred, I know you added this just see if I really read your poems! "I= really don't, I just read those couple of sentences you put at the end," she said acerbically. I await St. Larry's call. Rebecca =20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Planes Over Trinity From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:41:52 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:24:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Planes Over Trinity Date: 26 Jan 97 15:42:57 EST From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Planes Over Trinity > Thanks, Rebecca. I've enjoyed following your posts on the CSi > UFO Forum! Okay, I thought there was some disagreement still. Maybe in some folks minds, but I am reasonably satisfied that planes were in the air, but... > >It is the leap that there must have been cameras on those planes > >and Santilli's cameraman could have been on there as well. > Well, if they were truly "observation planes", is it that great a leap > to think that there might be cameras aboard? It's certainly a leap > to say that Jack Barnett was there. <G> I think it is a leap to say cameras were on board. The archivist at White Sands, Somebody or another Meade (how's that for documenation?)... uhm, I better get this straight... Roger Mead, archivist at the Los Alamos Nationl Library knew of no such aerial photography, and neither did Berlyn Brixner, who was responsible for most of the photography. Now, we learn there were planes in the area (19-29 km) in heavy cloud cover. Theresa has claimed to see this aerial footage on an unnamed documentary on the Discovery Channel and as well as UFOs: The Best Evidence. It's kind of hard to track down footage of an unnamed Discovery Channel program, but I probably could locate the UFO video rather easily -- I have not seen it yet. I would think that the video would list in its credits where the footage was obtained from but that might not be the case. There was a documentary made a while back called "Beyond Trinity: The Atom Bomb Movie, which I have not seen, but have heard about. It was made by Peter Kuran. There's an interesting story as to how he came to make this movie but I won't go into it here. He obtained a lot of never seen before footage from the US and Russian nuclear tests. The docu featured much of this footage and was dedicated to the 1352nd motion picture squadron: The Atomic Cinematographers The program utilized archive footage from LLNL and LANL (Roger Meade was credited) and comprehensively covered all aspects of the Trinity tests, including the May 7 "trial run" explosion. Both tests were shown from several angles but not one of them was an "aerial" shot. Some aerial stills were shown of the crater and surrounding areas, but these were taken well-after the actual detonation and through "clear skies". One would think that had there been aerial footage, of the actual blast, Kuran would have used it. The program did feature some shots of nuke tests billowing up through cloud cover, but these were a couple of years after Trinity. (I would like to thank one very nice person, who for now will remain nameless, who provided me with this information. I am attempting to locate this film at the moment to see for myself, but I have been unable to find it (haven't had time to look real hard just yet). > Hmmm. I should ask her if the weather is overcast in the vid of > the test she has. Trinity was pressed for time; so, they risked > proceeding during a thunderstorm. Subsequent tests were > performed in clear weather. That's just the deal. There was only one Trinity! > BTW, there's some great stills of Trinity on CSi's Science Forum. > Download trinity1.gif, trinity2.gif, and trinity3.gif. Oh geez, I still haven't quite got the hang of C$i. Is that something like go: Science? I'll try that later tonight when I log on. > Keep up the good work! Thanks, you too. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:43:21 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:25:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:26:45 -0600 To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > If some one who just take a chance and publish them. :) Ah, but someone has. Parascope on AOL has them on their first screen. They might even have them on their website too -- have not been there yet. [actually, I checked at 05:00 today, they haven't yet but it's well worth a visit -ebk] http://www.parascope.com/index.htm And I believe someone else has put them up as well. Don't remember the site though. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 AUFORA Server Downtime From: David Watanabe <praetor@spots.ab.ca> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 97 22:07:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:26:21 -0500 Subject: AUFORA Server Downtime Greetings, I am writing to inform you of some developments relating to the AUFORA internet presence. Our internet presence has been greatly compromised due to horribly reactionary actions by our ISP, the University of Calgary. Thus, the following have occured: * E-mail distribution was cut back. * AUFORA and Helios webservers will be offline for the next few days. AUFORA is moving its services to a new webserver. Expect the AUFORA website (www.aufora.org) to be fully operational sometime next week. Also expect AUFORA Updates via this email list to increase in frequency as we acquire access to a faster, more powerful mail server. Thank you for your patience during this time of transition. David Watanabe Assistant Director, AUFORA praetor@spots.ab.ca +-------+=-------++-=------>><---->-<< Dave Watanabe praetor@spots.ab.ca "Blood alone moves the wheels of history" -Benito Mussolini
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Emory U. President Wants Posts re: Courtney From: ParadigmRG@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:54:05 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:27:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Emory U. President Wants Posts re: Courtney In a message dated 97-01-25 12:26:14 EST, you write: > Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:32:51 GMT > To: hansons@worldnet.att.net > From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> > Subject: PRESIDENT OF EMORY U WANTS POSTS RE COURNEY > > News: Dr. W.Chace, president of Emory U. has indicated that he has > email, and wants to read posts re Courtney Brown, past, present and future > posts. > > His email is: > WCHACE@EMORY.EDU ________________________ With all due respect to the right of any list member to forward e-mail to a third party, the following caveat should be considered: List posting, beyond moderation for list rules, is an unregulated medium in which anyone can say anything about anyone else; individuals can post under false pretense; and editing for content is trivial. This caveat should also be considered against the possibility that the alleged interest on the part of the President of Emory (this was not a direct post) may not exactly have the interests of Prof. Borwn in mind as regards Brown related postings. Matters of tenure, academic freedom and the recent episode at Harvard regarding Dr. John Mack come to mind. SGBConsult [Stephen G. Bassett] Search for other documents from or mentioning: paradigmrg | hansons |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Emory U. President Wants Posts re: Courtney From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:13:49 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:28:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Emory U. President Wants Posts re: Courtney To THE Insiders Ufo List and other lists: Ref the recent comments by the Psych. professor at Emory re a Mr. C.B., his points are all well-taken re academic freedom and the responsibilities that a professor has to keep the reputation of his institution un-besmirched. We would add that part of that responsibility is to not engage in fraudulent research, hoaxed photos, false claims, grandious claims of supervised research that was not done and general gross egoism. Having an "off-campus" P.O. box does not sufficiently separate such a person from contaminating his host university. The only decent action at this juncture is a letter of resignation. At this point, until this is done, parents should think twice before sending their college-age children to Emory. Under these circumstances, the quality of the teaching is now questionable. Your editor. P.S. "Under the law, truth is the ultimate defense to libel." --- A Boalt Hall torts professor.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 29 Project 1947 - Re: Shag harbour Event From: Don Ledger <dledger@ISTAR.CA> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1956 02:23:16 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:47:17 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Re: Shag harbour Event To: Francis Ridge andP-47 List members From: Don Ledger Hello Francis, Curious you should mention that reprimand in '75. One of our sources in the forces relates as to how they were chewed out viciously and threatened with discharge and penalties if they did not keep their mouths shut about their offshore hunt for UFO. US/Can. airforces did mutual search patterns from Gulf of Maine up to Shelburne. He states this was the first time they were ever able to penetrate mutual airspaces without proper clearences while armed.Oct. 4-5,'67. See synopsis I posted to the list. I mentioned CFS Shelburne which was actually a sub listening base where US/Can. shared responsibility for admin. and operations-set up in 1954-55. Though locally we knew of the base it was not suspected until the eighties as to what the base was really for. It was closed out in 1994, a victim of Johnny Walker's Spy operations. Also a few miles to the south was CFB Bacarro, eastern end of NORAD's Pine Tree Line. Appreciate any help you can give me. Regards, Don Ledger dledger@istar.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 29 Philip Mantle Needs Your Help From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:13:16 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:51:10 -0500 Subject: Philip Mantle Needs Your Help Dear colleagues, Once again I would respectfully like to request your assistance. I am looking to find the addresses and/or telephone numbners of any of the following: CONDON REPORT CONTRIBUTORS: William K. Hartmann (photographic analysis) Roy Craig (direct physical evidence) Gordon D. Thayer (radar cases) James Wadsworth Michael Wertheimer Franklin E. Roach (astronaul sightings) Again, this information is for a prposed UFO documentary series that I am working on as a consultant and any assistance in locating the above individuals would be greatly appreciated. Yours Sincerely, Philip Mantle, 1 Woodhall Drive, Batley, West Yorkshire, England, WF17 7SW. tele/Fax: 01924 444049. E-mail: el51@dial.pipex.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Jan 97 09:12:24 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:49:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:42:09 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bill, Yes the face was supposed to be blacked out. What apparently happened is that Jack may know movie technique but knows nothing about video. He was videoed as you can see in front of a bright screen with big lights, one of which you can see in the photo. When you view this on your TV just set normally, all you see is a silhouette. This was what he intended. However, on video you can control brightness, and when Ray showed me the video we cranked the brightness on his TV all the way up so we could see Jack's face. The Japanese probably did this and more for their broadcast. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 09:47:25 cst Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:53:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob Shell wrote regarding "The Cameraman": >I was very surprised to see the posted note from Bob Rickard. I find it very >hypocritical of Rickard to deride Ray Santilli for asserting his copyright over >images from a video which he paid for. Yes, the cameraman has said he will not >do any interviews or anything else without payment, and this "interview" was >paid for. Ray Santilli has considered this a commercial venture from the >beginning, and has never claimed otherwise. >If Rickard really feels that all important information like this should be in >the public domain, then I suggest that his publisher should cease copyrighting >Fortean Times and make all information freely available to the UFO community >to use as any of us see fit. More to the point, all subscriptions should be >ree, and distribution of the magazine at news agents should be free as well. >This particular knife cuts both ways, you know. >Bob Shell I'm not sure if simply publishing the "Cameraman's" image would be a violation of copyright -- at least in the USA. Santilli would have to prove if, and how much, he was damaged by the publication of a screen capture from his copyrighted video. The only damage he could actually sustain is if, through the publication of the captured screen image, the "Cameraman" story could be proved to be a hoax -- thus reducing (hopefully) the marketability of the AA video? Isn't it quite obvious that this is what Santilli is really concerned about? Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 29 Project 1947 - Shag Harbour Date From: Don Ledger <dledger@ISTAR.CA> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1956 02:02:29 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:48:14 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Shag Harbour Date To: Drew Williamson and P-47 List. From: Don Ledger, Hi Drew, I think if you check your paper again you will find that they were nearly two days late getting it on the front page. That was a Friday on October 6, 1967 story you were reading. Wednesday was definately October 4th. Also check the synopsis I posted a few moments ago. I got your note after I posted it. I'm impressed as to how quickly you were able to access the Herald. Have you got an inside source to the paper files? Regards Don dledger@istar.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 29 Alfred's Odd Ode #85 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:39:43 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:52:05 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #85 Apology to MW #85 (For January 28, 1997)=20 As regards ebk, honored king of the list; It is through his brave effort that we all get the gist. He opens potentials where media won=92t go If we rise from our crawl it=92s for his horn to blow! Providing a platform that has some respect, We hear from some clear minds that we _know_ see neglect In a media fraught with a big man=92s intolerance. . . In a media soap selling, glitz serving, incompetence. So a toast to a man who can look at the sky, Who can tell wheat from chaff, and continue to fly; Who can give it a hearing not found anywhere. . . To a man with rare guts to look, peer, and _stare_. Lehmberg@snowhill.com . . .part of that air that I breath; air required for quality of life; air denied me by an oppressive culture. I breath this mixture and I am free =96 sure as hell glad I quit smoking what I find in the sheeple main stream! Thanks for being *here*, ebk. You are a much grander, courageous, and useful person than your lower case letters imply.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:47:21 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:50:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Philip Mantle's 'Beyond Roswell' > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:28:56 -0500 > From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> > Subject: Re: Someones' new book - to be published regarding "alien autopsy" > To: Errol Bruce-Knapp" <updates@globalserve.net> > I read with interest the "joyful" news about yet more pulp > hitting the stands. > Another one "claiming" to have resolved the riddles of the > phenomena - which its complexity - has produced a rich industry, > ran by a handful with healthy bank balances, and thousands of > followers who look up to them to announce the 'Second Coming'. > Alas, many times they have made such announcements, none of which > has come to pass - yet the obedient and faithful hungrily follow > their signs for salvation, and solving of the 'myth'. > I remember the time when one of the authors of this forthcoming > book, still in his UFOlogical infancy wrote me a note asking > whether I would have him as an apprentice. My apprentice to be, > was THE MUFON representative in UK, appointed to solve the myth - > in every shape and form they came; sightings, abductions, etcetera. > Since then, he seemed to have graduated - from which school of > learning - one could only guess. He might not have been able to > solve any of the myth, but he sure has been shrewd enough to learn > from his MUFON boss, back in Texas, how to seek for a healthy bank > balance. > His co-author, has equally colourful background. > I wish them both good luck for their 1997 contribution to the field. Hello Henry, yes, this is the guy's real name Henry Azadehdel and not Armen Victorian. Yes, the same Henry the convicted orchid smuggler who claimed to have a PhD in physics which proved to be bogus. The same Henry that was kicked out of MUFON. This MUFON Representative for England never requested to be your apprentice and you have no knowledge of the state of my bank account either. What contribution to the field of UFO literature are you best renowned for Henry ? Answer: none. If you want to discuss colourful backgrounds I suggest we start with yours as it is positively technicolour and puts the rest of us in the shade. Philip.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 29 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:04:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 01:53:00 -0500 Subject: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript Below are the alleged cameraman's answers to the questions (in Japanese, which are not provided): ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Start: Ready? Okay. I have some notes, and on these notes I have answers to precise questions. My son is here to help me with this interview. You will excuse me, this is the first time I have been in front of a camera and I am a little nervous. And, I will use my glasses, and I have prepared a statement before we go on with the interview. I am the person who shot the film. I will not tell you my name, but I want you to know that I am not happy that I have betrayed my country. Our United States of America is the greatest country in the world, and I am proud to be an American. I do not want that to change. Question #1: It wasn't my decision to become a cameraman in the military. They found out that cameras were something I understand and do best. And that's why I was given the job. Question #2: Yes, I remember that I got a call from McDonald telling me to report to General McMullen. When I got to McMullen, I was told that a plane went down just outside Soccoro, New Mexico. A flight was being laid down to go down there and I was to be on it. I was told to film the crash site and stay with the team till they left. Question #3: There were injured creatures lying around, obviously in pain. The men at the site were scared. There was a great deal of confusion, there certainly was. My authority allowed me to operate independent as long as I didn't interfere with anyone. When I arrived, I set up my tent and once I had lights, I began. How did I feet about it? I was concerned about potential contamination, but I had no choice. Question #4: Even if I could remember, I wouldn't give you names! Yes, there were scientists, military brass, and medical experts, even Truman's team went down there...(pause) it was the full works. Question #5: We were told nothing and ordered not to discuss what we had seen. We all knew it wasn't a spy plane or any other type of plane we had seen before. No one knew how it crashed or where it came from. Question #6: The creatures kept crying out and the men were scared, but they were trained and ordered to go in and treated it like a war situation. Their first job was to recover the objects the freaks were holding just in case they were weapons of some kind. I filmed the assault on the freaks to get these objects. It turned out they were not weapons, but control units of some kind. The freaks didn't want to let them go, but they didn't stand a chance, we got them. Once the units were secured, the freaks were removed. Question #7: I kept all the film with me, went back to the base to process. Question #8: What do you think I am? I can't give names. Question #9: The protective suits made my job very difficult. Also the air feeds into the feet on those things and the surgeons were always getting in the way, but I expected that. Question #10: Most of the processing took place around August, by the time the military, as we knew it, ceased to be. The Air Force and the Army were about to split and my group was about to be dismantled for a time anyway (laughs out loud). In fact, you could say 1 was in a strange position at the time of not belonging to either one service. And eventually they found a home for us. Question #11: I took all the film because I had no one to report to. My orders were not to discuss the situation with anyone unless they brought up the subject first. The first batch had been delivered. the department folded and I had no one to deliver to. I tried to contact McMullen, but I couldn't get through. In the end I couldn't leave it laying around, so I took it home which is where it stayed. Question #12: Frankly, I wish I had never sold the film. He came back to me until I sold him the film. I sold the film because I needed money. I'm not proud of it. Santilli took about 25 rolls. That's it. I'm going to bed. No more questions. Turn it off. No more questions.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:30:22 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 97 12:34:43 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > John Powell, relisher of fine Texas Gulf Coast Seafood, said; (Most assuredly!) >>Although folks who think everything odd in the sky is an alien spaceship >>coming to probe their anus are probably quite upset at the attention TST >>is getting. > I'm not upset, I'm fascinated. Same here. A couple of years ago I was set upon by several rabid ETH supporters because I mentioned the statistical concurrance between geomagnetic activity and subsequent UFO sighting reports. Not wanting to be gang-mugged by these frisky followers of aliens <grin> I casually mentioned that _maybe_ the alien propulsion system _caused_ some geomagnetic activity in certain areas... For all I know that may even be true... The _only_ thing we presently know is that there _is_ a reliable, statistically significant, and very interesting concurrance. My _personal_ opinion is that geomagnetic activity probably does explain the great majority of _simple_, short-duration, non-descript DDs and NLs. Which is fine anyway since by definition these simple, short-duration and non-descript DDs and NLs don't look good in a high-detail multi-observer database and (hopefully) aren't the stuff we want to explain/understand first. I should also point out that the best UFO flaps on record are probably _not in any way_ connected with geomagnetic activity: Gulf Breeze, Belgium, Bentwaters, the 1947-era, Husdon Valley, (and others I can't remember right now). > And, John... Is you abduction insurance paid up? :) You bet. As Duke would say, "Come and get some." > Watch your... uh... dietary habits! Hahaha!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Project 1947 - Shag Harbour Incident From: Don Ledger <dledger@ISTAR.CA> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1956 01:47:56 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:32:12 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Shag Harbour Incident To: Anders Liljigren and P-47 members From: Don Ledger Anders, I appreciate the information you sent to the list concerning my request for info on NATO alerts and scrambles during those times and that evening. Be advised that the object in question was not-repeat not an errant missile from the Soviet Union. Our best information from inside is that the object entered the atmosphere over Siberia, decended then continued on course over the Arctic at the speeds I mentioned then "stopped" for several minutes before continuing on its course into Eastern Canada where it impacted the waters off Shag Harbour,N.S. It "drifted" for about ten minutes with the ebbtide before submerging. During its visible moments it was showing a pale yellow light. The reason I was inquiring about any other scrambles for that time and that evening is to get further confirmation of a general alert throughout NATO. We already know of the scramble out of North Bay,Ont. passed on by ex-airforce. I have been working on this case with Chris Styles for nearly three years now. He originated and dug up most of the evidence on this event beginning 4 years ago. Anders, you might have read the write-up in the Aug.'96 MUFON journal about Chris's presentation 'Shag Harbour in Perspective" at the '(6 MUFON Symposium in June of '96. Chris and I have been writing a book on this incident which seems to have created quite a stir in the UFO community. During the process I have become heavily involved in the investigation which seems to uncover more and more leads as we delve into it, though my part was to do most of the writing and he the investigation- but I've gotten sucked in by this facinating case. I promised Jan something on the Shag Harbour Incident as he is well aware of it and has contributed documentation to our investigation. Sorry this is so long but it requires some explaining. This case incidentally was written up in the Condon Report as Case 34 and listed as one of the unexplained. Please excuse the brevity of the outline for the book is running about 250 pages without documents, photos, index and references etc. Don Ledger Read on: Subject: Shag Harbour Incident of Oct.4,1967, Nova Scotia A heavily Government Documented UFO crash with Canadian and American military envolvement. A synopsis: 02:20 GMT-11:20 ADT-local Oct.4th,1967- (Night clear and cool-no moon) Crash was originally phoned into the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP or Mounties) Detachment in Barrington Passage N.S.by a young fisherman, as a possible airliner impacting the surface of the waters adjacent to Shag Harbour, a small fishing village some 130 miles southwest of Halifax on the Atlantic Ocean. The report was at first greeted with an accusation that the caller had been drinking but caller was soon re-contacted (at a payphone no less) when others began calling in with a like account of an airplane crashing into the waters of the "Sound" by Shag Harbour.(Some 10 people reported the decsent of an aircraft into the water) 3 RCMP arrived on scene, all of which are principles, still living and have been interviewed. Object was described as being ~60 feet long showing 4 lights while still airbourne and decending at a 45 degree angle. Viewed by witnesses (at least 20) from about 280 degrees of circle. On the water it was flat dome shaped. ALL PHONE IN REPORTS OF IMPACT WERE OF SMALL AIRLINER OR LIGHT AIRPLANE. AUTHORITIES CLASSED OBJECT AS UFO. Dozens of people arrived at vantage point and watched lighted object drifting with ebbtide. Object remained on surface for about five minutes then sank or submerged. Reports of wooshing sounds were reported. Attempts were made by local fishermen and 2 of the Mounties to get to the scene to offer assistance and look for survivors. Found only a patch of thick foam similar to shaving cream,only yellow in colour and glittery in nature. Patch was eighty feet wide by 1/2 mile long. Fishermen/searchers swear that this was not sea foam were spooked by it and did not like sailing through the stuff though they had no choice since this was the area where the craft went down. Also encountered bubbles coming to the surface and expressed concerns about bouyancy.Nothing was found that evening an since federal and military agencies reported no missing aircraft the RCMP tagged the object as a UFO in a report filed to the Air Desk in Ottawa early the next morning. Royal Canadian Navy and RCMP divers were brought in on the morning of the 6th to attempt to recover wreckage but were unsuccessful. Local and regional press and television arrived and filmed part of the search which was within a 1/2 mile of shore. In the meantime the event was given a great deal of coverage by the press including banner headlines in the Halifax daily newspaper the Chronicle Herald-Mail Star. The evening of Oct4/67 were rife with UFO reports all over eastern Canada, one very strange event reported by Air Canada pilot and 1st officer. Radar targets by offshore trawler. There was a report of an object reported by another Mountie and three game wardens (they were staked out in the forest trying to capture some deer jackers) thirty miles north of Shag Harbour same time, believed to be the same one reported in the fishing village. They were astute enough to take a compass bearing on the object that proved to be on a direct heading for the fishing village. A time lapse photograph (slide-Ectachrome-64) was taken of an object bearing in that direction by a professional photographer which we have obtained copies of but cannot be sure this would be the same object due to distance from sighting. Slide also shows star smears from time lapse while object(s) stay rock solid. I have provided the thinnest of sketches of the event and none of the aftermath. These would be details of the documents, the military connection that led to another more bizzare event around a highly secret NATO base twenty miles up the coast at the same time which leads us to believe that Shag Harbour was a cover for the bigger event that unfolded near the NATO base. What began as an interesting story (the 'trapping" of an object 80-100 feet down being serviced by another object) by seven naval vessels off Government Point, Shelburne (also the site of a sub listening station and Magnetic Anomaly Detection -MAD grid) has expanded to include the muting of military witnesses, most of whom have not been in the forces for 15 or 20 years, refusal of Canadian Coast Guard documents and the tampering with of same, and local witnesses who offer evidence of this event while being questioned on another. As noted above there is too much to go into at the moment. I would appreciate any information List Members might run across in their investigations that they feel might link up with this one. Regards, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Housekeeping From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:34:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:34:21 -0500 Subject: Housekeeping Hello, The 'Move' is complete - well, 'complete' is a relative word. The work station is once again all screwed together, the computers are back up and running, Sue and I are both beat but content to be in one space with all our combined 'stuff'. Sorry about the delay in getting the subsequent posts to the List. To the couple of dozen new subscribers, Welcome! ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:36:45 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:59:16 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Again, about documents in the Linda case, John Powell asks: >> Do you also have the envelopes for each letter? How do the envelopes look? >> Same stamps, how are they addressed, etc.? >Yep, I've seen the envelopes. Same pattern as the letters -- they vary >from individual to individual, just as you'd expect if they were real. Do they individually have different or the same postmarks? Were each individual's all mailed from the same place? >One example: "Janet Kimball" (the woman who supposedly saw the abduction >from the Brooklyn Bridge) has a trait all her own -- she put adhesive >labels with big red borders on her first envelope. On the labels she's >written "re: Brooklyn Bridge." Nobody else's envelopes have anything >like that. Maybe Hopkins asked her to do that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:35:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:10:02 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>>>Observers or reporters, same thing. ....snip.... >>>JC: Not if you read what Dr. Hynek said. I was just trying to >>>point out that many excellent observers do not report their >>>sightings. Some of those observers are quite well trained. >>Oops, I missed that point. Yes, I think so too. >JC: Also, if that one "smoking gun" case was found and the ridicule >reduced sufficiently concerning the topic, I believe you would eventually >see a number of other cases surface from some of those "technically >trained" people that never reported them at the time of their occurrence. >What data set would they fall into and how would you handle those? Being a highly trained and experienced nitpicker I have a sort of small problem with the possibility of including me-too data, or in other words post-dated data. I much prefer original data. But, nonetheless, this would/should be considered right along with our other best data. We do know from experience that some large percentage (unknown and unguessable by me) of sightings don't get reported, and the general sociocultural climate surrounding the UFO phenomenon is probably to blame for that. Folks investigating current and even old cases almost always run across people with a sighting that happenned N-years ago. Even though I don't like the odds of accidentally including me-too data what's the real difference between someone saying they saw this-n-that two days ago versus two decades ago? Careful interviewing techniques to attempt to detect fraud and/or embellishment still apply.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:40:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:26:45 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >> He has a sort of craggy, jowly face, which enhances the effect of the mole >> in the right side of this face. Also the glare enhances this. >There can't be too many folks that look like this guy. The mole might >be the thing that helps identify him. I tend to think you're right. >> Well, its one of the first _real_ items of the entire fiasco, I mean case. >> So far, there's no film, no actual film labels, no other physical evidence. >> This is obviously a real person... >Exactly! And that is why this lead might be our last chance to solve >this. This cameraman...if he is real and not some actor in disguise >could answer most all our questions. I agree. >> Unfortunately, less than 1% of the US population is on the Internet. Maybe >> Fox could put his picture on TV??? >If some one who just take a chance and publish them. :) It might be legitimate for some news-oriented organization to do a story on the Japanese TV show and use a short segment of the film, that would get it on our TV.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Article from Emory University Web Site From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:41:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Article from Emory University Web Site >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 09:45:24 est >From: paa3765@dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Article from Emory University Web Site >>The Courtney Brown affair and academic freedom >>>Brown, who >>>directs the "Farsight Institute" in Atlanta, offers seminars--at a cost >>>of $3,000 per head--that promise to provide attendees with the psychic >>>abilities he has mastered. >>Somebody should spend the $3000, take the 'course' and report on what they >>learned... >Go right ahead -- I'll be right behind you! I'll put up $100 plus travel expenses, anybody got $2900 to spare???
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Emory U. President Wants Posts re: Courtney From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 11:40:52 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:43:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Emory U. President Wants Posts re: Courtney >SGBConsult Stephen G. Bassett said; >Matters of tenure, academic freedom and the recent episode at > Harvard regarding Dr. John Mack come to mind. What faked, false "evidence" did Mack share with Art Bell, then call him up and practically 'threaten' to try to keep him from releasing said "evidence" from the public eye? None? Correct. I rest your case. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Deadline on Govt Response From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Jan 97 14:30:30 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:44:25 -0500 Subject: Deadline on Govt Response Errol and All, Following the logic used by CSETI in the letter they sent to a number of US govt officials, I have sent a short letter to President Clinton and some other govt officials as well. My letter simply states that if I receive no response by my stated deadline, which is this Friday, it constitutes an agreement that the US Government will pay me the sum of $ 10,000,000 (ten million dollars US) for "services rendered". Anyone want to take bets on whether I can collect on this next week? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Jan 97 23:09:38 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:50:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:34:45 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos > Isn't there something called "Fair Use" where you can extract a certain > number of words (I think 200 for printed matter for review purposes) > or say a certain number of frames for review purposes. Yes, there is. Thanks, that point had slipped my mind. I'm not sure whether the amount quotable for review purposes is actually quantified, but I do know 10 per cent is the limit you can xerox from a book, even for purposes of private study. I did quite a lot of work on the "new" law when it came out (in an office only a few hundred yards from Her Majesty's Admiralty... Bob Rickard came by at least once to get instructions... Oh, the names I can drop...) but confess I didn't pay much heed to the provisions for film/video as we were a print/record (vinyl) outfit. It would be interesting to hear an informed opinion as to whether a captured frame published for *news* purposes does in fact consititute a breach of copyright. And in addition you could very possibly base a defense on the notion of "fair use" for review if you tacked around the picture a few pithy words by, say, a mole fancier or a consulting optician or a hairdresser... or even a lighting cameraman. You get my drift, I'm sure. I doubt Midshipman Rickard would want to test either legal option after his queasy-making experience with Sister Moonshine of the Apocalypse (or whatever that twit was called) and her paranormal pin-ups. Ha. I guess Guccione's a no-no, now, too. surreptitiously P. Mendoza Brazenspook <---my Aunt Fanny's real name
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Dolphinese From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:55:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:45:56 -0500 Subject: Dolphinese ---------- > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:38:07 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Boylan bulletins > >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:13:44 -0500 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Boylan bulletins > >>Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:26:50 -0600 > >>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net> > >>To: Galcticon@prodigy.com > >>Subject: Re: Boylan bulletins > >>Dr. Shargell, > >>Back on Wed Dec 11 Dr. Richard Boylan posted some "bulletins" [snip] > >It gets even better. Boylan posted the following recently > >on the I_UFO list: [snip] ================================================================= > And here are some of the reasons why abduction experiencers > will never be taken seriously! (Thanks again to Dr B for his > unceasing efforts to set the whole field back another 20 years!) JV ================================================================= > >Stella Marie, > > The most interesting lectures at the International UFO > >Congress were given by former NASA engineer, Lee Shargel, Ph.D. > >and by Giorgio Bongiovanni, Italian experiencer-stigmatic. > --------------------- [snip] > Try saying 'stigmatic abductee' real fast three times. <G> Thanks, I'll pass John. ;-) > >to closely resemble a Pleidean hybrid. Although 71, he had > >the look of a > I'd love to know where Dr B saw his [first] "Pleidian hybrid" > that he I dunno John, but I think he believes that an Reptillian Hybrid 'Walk-In' attended one of his CE-IV meetings that I attended. She was sitting next to me. ;-) > >Dr. Shargel revealed that the U.S. military have (killer) > >SDI lasers in orbit around Earth (in violation of the > >No-Weapons-In-Space treaty.) > --------------------- > Be nice to get the codes and aim one at Boylans Chrysler! That is a typo above John. I can reliably report that the good Doc drives a Nissan Pathfinder. I believe that he bought it in hopes of insuring that he always followed the right path. As all can see, the attempt failed miserably. <grin> [snip] > extremists like Boylan and his new age, prediction making, alien > channeling, know it all followers. Thanx again Doc. In "Dolphinese", > "skroooo youuu"! <fartwhistleclick> ROTFL!!! I wonder if he is going to show at each of the quarterly 'Star Vision' Conferences? I understand that there will be another of these soon down in Santa Fe. Geeeee... maybe I should mosey on down there. <grin> Naw, I AM proud to announce that tomorrow evening at 7 p.m. at the Farmington Civic Center there will be a gathering of many (hopefully) good souls in order to explore the idea of forming a 4 Corners Area UFO investigative group. We have had flyers up all over town to that effect for the better part of a month now. I got quite a few calls this past weekend as to the particulars in that the Paper reported it, but failed to mention the location of the meeting. (must've been the nefarious UFO coverup) ;-) Just think! If this goes over perhaps I will be able to invite Ole' Doc B in for a presentation! Should be good for some Comic Relief! <grin> Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Voices... From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:44:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:47:30 -0500 Subject: Voices... This is for Philip Mantle: You are one of the few people who claim to have spoken to someone claiming to be the cameraman. It has been said by Michael Hesemann that you also have seen the unedited video answers that this cameraman gave to Santilli. Can you tell us if the voice sounds the same? Thanks, Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 21:08:48 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:59:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:34:45 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Autopsy Camerman Photos Rebecca asked... >Isn't there something called "Fair Use" where you can extract a certain >number of words (I think 200 for printed matter for review purposes) or say a >certain number of frames for review purposes. I see in the American magazine >"People Weekly" that they have a frame captured from a Larry King TV show in >an article about the death of Bill Cosby's son. The credit says: Courtesy >CNN. Couldn't that same thing be done for Mr. Santilli's cameraman? Of >course, who would you credit, the Japanese or Orbital? *I did ask Santilli, but he replied "We really wish to hold back use of the Cameraman's image until May. You may find this strange in view of the Japanese broadcast, but you should know that the transmission was the result of a misunderstanding." Bob Rickard - editor bob@forteana.win.uk.net FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "All men know the use of useful things; but they do not know the use of useless things." Chuang Tsu
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Poetry from the Little Green Men From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:24:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:57:09 -0500 Subject: Poetry from the Little Green Men Hi Errol, Check this out. It's an alien limerick generator. http://www.herald.co.uk/blazon/b8/limerick.html Here is an example: Joi oiha hel rikesnazpar Karbe xoarau tal sendar Jau hank hil leikon Maz pis las truhon Ran sor jaihaltul ho tzibar Hehehe, Pat ********************************************** ********************************************** * UNUSUAL RESEARCH * * * * http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html * ********************************************** **********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:29:40 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:48:56 -0500 Subject: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy Proposed terrestrial explanation for entities depicted in "alien autopsy footage": If the cadavers shown in Ray Santilli's controversial film are in fact organic and not FX dummies, perhaps they represent the victims of early, secret aviation experiments using human "freaks" as test pilots. The two "creatures" featured in the footage may be twins afflicted with a genetic disorder like that illustrated on the following Web site: http://www.webcom.com/conspire/curren16.html Although atrocious, it's not unreasonable to suspect the military of the late 1940s to conduct experiments of this sort on civilians; indeed, prisoners, orphans and low-income laborers were subjected to illegal experiments designed to determine human tolerances to radioactive substances. _If_ the Santilli creatures are humans (probably subjected to surgical modification), then they probably originated from an orphanage or shelter and were thus written off the books in the name of national security. This is the only feasable hypothesis I can come up assuming (_strictly for the sake of argument_) that the bodies on Santilli's film are human and that the crash-retrieval story recounted by the cameraman is at least correct in essence. I welcome any leads/comments pertaining to this. Sincerely, Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 29 Jan 97 09:01:47 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:54:30 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript With the compliments of His Grace... > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:04:56 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Cameraman Interview Transcript > Question #9: > The protective suits made my job very difficult. Also the air > feeds into the feet on those things ... (Pause for serious hysterics) --Aaaawww, rrrilly? This is a hell of an advance over the kit they wear in today's Level 4 labs, ain't it, though? These days it's so damn' dull in those places. You never have the fun of falling over every five minutes with your feet all scrangled up in your own or someone else's airline, and thinking of new curses for the fool who designed such a dumb suit. Brain dead? What's that? My Mum says: Tell one lie and you'll only have to tell a worse one. And as for not knowing about the brightness control... Yours septically Peregrine M. Bloodspatter MD, PhD,DD <----not his real degrees
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Ufology 'Stalled'? From: Nick Humphries <nickh@PhoneLink.COM> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:00:29 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:53:17 -0500 Subject: Ufology 'Stalled'? Here's an article which I recently sent to Usenet which I think might be better answered here... ---------------------- In the past decade or two, how far has ufology progressed? What advances have been made? I'd say none. True, the raw data that's been gathered has rocketed thanks to the FOIA process and various world governments being more willing to release their data, but what use has it all been? Do we know what UFOs are made of? No. Do we know what propulsion system they're using? Nope. Have we any idea of where they come from? Nada. (well, nothing with reasonable evidence to back them up with) You can repeat conspiracy theories until you're blue in the face, but you have no proof of anything more than a cover-up of ignorance. Having observed ufology for the past five years, read a lot of UFO literature spanning decades, all I think now when I read a new case is "Oh look, here's another... Light in the sky Possible UFO landing Possible UFO crash (or "emergency landing" :) ) which undoubtably turns out to be bogus (Long Island, Carp, etc) Radar/visuals Military case revealed via FOIA or equivalent Abduction which has no third party witnesses (funny that...)" More data, but what do we actually GAIN from all of this? We're all waiting for The Big One where there is irrefutable proof of alien life in our backyard, and The Big One will occur no matter how much or how little UFO research is done now. So why bother? Simple. It's an interesting hobby, nothing more. What else would you call something which is non-productive? Comments? Nick Humphries, nickh@the-den.demon.co.uk, at your service If the Truth is Out There, what's In Here?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Parascope's AOL Article on the Cameraman photo From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:05:03 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:58:36 -0500 Subject: Parascope's AOL Article on the Cameraman photo "False face must hide what false heart doth know." -- MacBeth, Act I, Scene vii Errol, I have the permission of the author to post this to the List. This article is available on AOL at Keyword: Parascope, in the Nebula Section. It has not been posted to the Parascope website [www.parapcope.com] as of this morning [1/29]. The picture is available for download on aol but most of us have seen it already anyway. The reason this article is not posted to the website yet is because Parascope's main focus in on America Online. The Parascope site on AOL gets priority over the website. The article contained links that I tried to take out because they would be useless to anyone who is not on AOL. That is the only alteration made. And there is no permission given for crossposting. That will have to be taken up with the people at Parascope and/or the author. Thanks, Rebecca by Paul B. Thompson Nebula Editor PSCPPol@aol.com Recently a confidential source sent ParaScope the picture featured in this report. It's a still from a video tape which allegedly shows (albeit indistinctly) the face of the American cameraman who supposedly shot the "alien autopsy" film in 1947. Those of you who are familiar with ParaScope know my position regarding the autopsy film: it's a hoax. To this date, no conclusive evidence has been offered that verifies this film's authenticity. Evasive half-truths and outright lies have been offered in support of it, leavened with great heaps of Net gossip and speculation. (For a summary of what's known and not known about the alien autopsy film, see the Alien Autopsy FAQ.) One of the most controversial points of the Alien Autopsy hooplah is the identity of the alleged cameraman responsible for the film. Ray Santilli, the British film promoter who made the film available to the public, alleges the cameraman is an elderly American who was an official U.S. Army photographer during and after World War II. The reels of film that make up the so-called alien autopsy were "problem" reels that the cameraman held back for special processing after the U.S. military recovered the ET bodies from the scene of a UFO crash in 1947 -- not from Roswell, as we are now told, although that was the original story. Early in the controversy it was alleged that the cameraman's name was Jack Barnett, but this was hurriedly denied once it was demonstrated that a real Jack Barnett existed who did film an early Elvis Presley performance (part of Santilli's claim was that he met the cameraman as part of an expedition to America to find early footage of the King), but this real Barnett died years before Ray Santilli claimed to have met him and obtained the alien autopsy sequences. There were also rumors/claims the cameraman had died since selling the film to Santilli. Enter Bob Kiviat. Kiviat was the producer of the now infamous TV special, "Alien Autopsy: Fact or Fiction?" as well as the unsuccessful "Paranormal Borderline" TV show. As part of his on-going research into the story, Kiviat was anxious to get the alleged cameraman on camera himself, to provide corroboration for the fantastic tale. Skepticism was running high against the film's authenticity, and to keep the matter current and credible required new information. After some negotiation between Santilli, Kiviat, and the alleged (boy, I'm getting tired of that word!) cameraman, the following arrangement was agreed upon: Kiviat would submit questions to Santilli, who would refer them to the cameraman. The cameraman's son would videotape his dad answering Kiviat's questions. Because the cameraman claimed to fear reprisals by the U.S. government (as if they wouldn't know who he was as soon as the story broke), he insisted his face must be obscured on the tape. The tape was made. Kiviat, appearing on the Leeza talk show not long ago, admitted he had a copy of the interview video, but he couldn't do anything with it because he didn't have the cameraman's permission to use it. Presumably this was because he is not disguised, other than by an Army baseball-type cap. Since the tape was unsatisfactory for Kiviat's use, Santilli is said to have asked the cameraman to make another, which the latter refused to do. It's been pointed out to me that anyone with video production know-how could superimpose a "blue dot" over the cameraman's face, or a blurred oval such as was used in the Fox special to obscure the "dead alien's" genital area. Surely Ray Santilli, who owns a video production company, has the resources to do that. Anyway, Santilli turned around and sold the video interview footage to the Japanese conglomerate Fuji. Because of this, Santilli and the cameraman are said to be "on the outs." My sources tell me that four minutes of the video interview were shown (on Japanese TV?) by Fuji, but what the cameraman said has not been reported. [Any Japanese readers of ParaScope are encouraged to forward any information they have on the broadcast. Also unknown to me at this time is the exact length of the interview. The four minutes Fuji broadcast may be the whole thing, or just the "good parts" version...] Now comes the kicker. The still photo of the cameraman's face has been offered to some other outlets (who and how many, I don't know). Fortean Times got it. Word must have gotten around they were planning to run it in their magazine, because Orbital Media, Ltd. promptly warned them that unauthorized use of a still picture from the cameraman's video interview would result in legal action. Bob Rickard of Fortean Times replied on the Internet with a statement that said in part: "We will of course comply as we have no wish to flout the laws of copyright, but we deplore, generally, a situation in which data that can help clear up the complex mysteries that abound in ufology today are commercial property. It makes genuine research and progress towards answers and understanding very difficult." So why is ParaScope daring the wrath of Fuji and Orbital Media, Ltd.? Well, we're not. Using a single still from a lengthy video constitutes a clear example of fair use. We have no intention of violating anyone's copyright, but threats such as those received by Fortean Times (and perhaps others) are simply not justified. Look at the picture of the alleged cameraman. Click the button below to download it. Show it to your friends. This is journalistic fair use, so don't be intimidated. And if by chance anyone out there recognizes the man in the picture, please let us know. We'd be very interested to hear from you. He's in no legitimate danger from exposure. If his story is true, his best defense is public recognition; if it's phony (and I believe it is), government silencers will be not gunning for him. The only real reasons to be secretive and litigious are to preserve a hoax and juice it for all it's worth. (c) Copyright 1997 ParaScope, Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Altavista - More on "lee shargel" From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:38:16 -0500 Subject: Altavista - More on "lee shargel" >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 23:40:39 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> >Subject: Altavista - More on "lee shargel" >Whoa, this is getting _real_ interesting. I think we definately have >a match here, folks. >" Dr." Lee Shargel is a _science fiction_ writer. >URL - http://www.bocklabs.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/wri-print?Shargel_Lee Excellent work! >Mr. Shargel is a former NASA scientist. began writting in 1990 fulltime. >Winner of national playwrights award for We Can make A Difference. >Active lecturer on UFO's, ET's and astronomical phenomena. Lives in FL >with his two ocelots, Shakespeare & Socrates. What did he do at NASA?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 29 Jan 97 10:51:00 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:55:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 09:47:25 cst >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Vince is misinformed on copyright. My "regular job" is as a photographer and editor of photo magazines. I have done a lot of research on copyright issues in my job totally unrelated to anything to do with UFOlogy or Ray Santilli. Ray (or more precisely Ray's company Orbital Media, Ltd.)owns copyright to all images in this video. This means that anyone who publishes any of these images, in any form, without express consent from Ray is in violation of this copyright. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. The last time someone violated copyright on one of my magazine's images, the photographer sued with our support and collected $ 156,000 in damages. We did not have to establish that he was harmed by this publication, but simply that it was done without permission. Monetary amount was set by the judge based on guidelines in the law. I would not recommend being the test case on this one. Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Mars 'crater of life' pinpointed From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:02:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:59:29 -0500 Subject: Mars 'crater of life' pinpointed The Electronic Telegraph International News Thursday 30 January 1997 Mars 'crater of life' pinpointed By Roger Highfield, Science Editor A CRATER on Mars where life may have thrived millions of years ago has been pinpointed, a meeting of space scientists will be told. The claim will be made by James Rice of Arizona State University at the 28th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in March. A summary on the Internet yesterday reveals that Mr Rice believes he has identified the crater that yielded the potato-sized Martian meteorite ALH 84001. The meteorite was found in Antarctica and last year a team of Nasa and Open University scientists said it may have once hosted bacteria. The 6.2 mile-diameter crater, positioned at 5 deg S and 146 deg W, is in the Memnonia region of Mars, near the planet's equator. It has an oblique debris blanket, suggesting the impact occurred at an angle. Mr Rice said: "This oblique impact would have facilitated the ejection of material off the Martian surface and into space. This region of Mars contains numerous valleys and canyons where water once flowed from the southern cratered highlands of Terra Sirenum to the lowland volcanic plains of Amazonis Planitia, billions of years ago." The igneous rock in the 4.2lb meteorite has been dated to about 4.5 billion years, when the planet formed. Mr Rice said: "It seems quite reasonable to assume that the rock formed in an ancient region (Noachian Age) of the Martian surface, namely the cratered highlands." He then searched Viking Orbiter images to find a crater which was formed 16 million years ago - exposure of ALH 84001 to cosmic rays suggest this was the time it was ejected by a comet or asteroid. "This would result in a very fresh and young crater," said Mr Rice. "Young craters on Mars are defined as having sharp, complete, well-preserved rims, steep walls, deep and rough floors." The conference, sponsored by Nasa and held at the Johnson Space Centre and the Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston, Texas, will be dominated by the debate over whether ALH 84001 did contain evidence of life. One team from the University of Hawaii will present a series of mechanisms using inorganic - non-living - processes to explain some of the finds. Others will question whether there are "biofilms" in the meteorite, a covering of organic matter that was thought to have been deposited by biological processes. - end - JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 About Professor Courtney Brown From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 15:36:26 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:01:38 -0500 Subject: About Professor Courtney Brown Subject: Re: Courtney Brown Sent: 1/29/97 3:06 PM Received: 1/29/97 3:08 PM From: Bill Chace, Bill_Chace@learnlink.emory.edu To: pparri@republic.net A Statement about Professor Courtney Brown Professor Courtney Brown is a member of the Emory faculty and teaches in the Department of Political Science. His published work in social science has received very favorable recognition from experts in the field. Independently of this professional work, he has recently established and runs "The Farsight Institute," an organization having no relationship whatever with Emory University, and from which it receives no support. Professor Brown has declared that he will not commingle his responsibilities at Emory with these other activities. To the best of our knowledge, he has honored that pledge. Under these circumstances, he is free to pursue his endeavors with his institute. The principles of academic freedom, as well as the liberties granted to all American citizens, do not permit this university or any other university to constrain the ideas or opinions of any of its faculty members. John Stuart Mill said it best when in, On Liberty, he wrote: "If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind." Universities do not exist to shelter received opinion or to affirm what everyone knows. They serve instead to stimulate originality of thought and independence of expression. Since error is often the companion of truth, and since truth is always to be sought yet never to be gained, universities have always had an intimate acquaintance with falsehood. While I do not agree with the content of Professor Brown's non-Emory activities, he has the right to pursue them. William M. Chace -- William M. Chace Office of the President, Emory University Atlanta, GA 30322 Tel: 404-727-6013; Fax: 404-727-5997
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:41:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:57:27 -0500 Subject: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From what's been said publicly and from correspondence with Ray Santilli, it's possible to piece together the story of the video showing a person who claims to be the "alien autopsy" cameraman. According to Robert Kiviat, the Executive Producer of the US FOX Network's "Alien Autopsy: Fact or Fiction" documentary, Ray Santilli, "arranged to have the cameraman answer 25 of my questions concerning the story". It's understood that on 12th July, 1996, the tape was delivered to Robert Kiviat and Gary Shoefield, Ray Santilli's business partner, at a prearranged hotel room in New York. Kiviat was allowed to watch the video three times, but was not given the tape. The tape was handed over by a man who claimed to be the cameraman's son and apparently this person also appears briefly on the video tape. An opinion from someone who has seen the video tape, is that the person on film has a strong New York accent. On 9 December, 1996, during an on-line internet interview with OMNI, Kiviat stated, "I have that video "in the can" as we say and we are planning a possible broadcast to show the cameraman's face for the first time on television anywhere. Unfortunately, it's not a full interview and it may not be up to network television standards. I am doing the best I can. Truly". Referring to the possibility of showing the video to Retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Daniel A. McGovern, a former combat cameraman who has offered to speak with the cameraman in confidence, Kiviat added, "If I had it my way, I'd be flying to McGovern's house tonight to show him the footage. The only reason I can't do that is because my agreement with Santilli is that we both hold rights to the cameraman's interview and I have to clear that with him. My guess is that sometime in the next few months during the course of producing another program, McGovern will be shown the footage. That's my hope. Santilli clearly is asking for more money and to have it be part of a production that I would make. Unfortunately, I do not have a green light for production yet". Some time after Kiviat had been allowed to view the video, it was also shown on separate occasions to Michael Hesemann and Bob Shell. On Friday 16 August, 1996, during a German speaking conference on one of the CompuServe forums, Hesemann revealed full details of the video. I wrote to Ray Santilli asking if he would like to comment on this disclosure and he replied, "I am sorry that news of the cameraman's interview is out, however please note at present there are NO plans to use it". He also added, "The whole thing will be attempted again later this year". During subsequent discussions, he spoke of his dilemma with the tape; "The content of the cameraman's interview really wasn't the problem. The problem revolved around the way in which it was filmed. To cut a long story short he insisted on filming it himself as he wanted to be in control of the lighting and the style of the interview - he wanted his image in silhouette. However expert he may of been with film in the old days, he made a complete mess of the shoot on digital tape because by turning up the brightness of any viewer you could get a clear picture of the man himself. The other problem was his nervousness - for the most part you can see him shaking. It is great film footage however we have promised not to let it go". This final comment, makes the sale of the broadcast rights something of a surprise. Although it may seem that the person alleged to be the cameraman's son brought the _previously unseen_ video for Kiviat to view and Shoefield to take back to London, that's perhaps not the case. On 9 May, 1996, researcher and journalist Robert Irving, told me of a phone call he had received earlier that day from a colleague at the BBC. The BBC had apparently been contacted by a known associate of Santilli's and offered the broadcast rights to a video of the "alien autopsy" cameraman answering some questions. Santilli's associate had told the BBC of the background to the video and as Robert Irving recalled, "Fox TV - who hold the US rights to the interview - sent an audio tape of questions to Ray Santilli, who passed them on to the cameraman. The cameraman then conducted his solitary interview in silhouette, with the video running. So far, so good... presumably Fox could add cutaways later. Apparently, the cameraman (or someone) decided the silhouette wasn't dark enough, so his face is having to be pixelated, and an actor's voice-over added". Although this story was merely of passing interest at the time, in hindsight, there seems a strong case that this was the same interview which later surfaced in a New York hotel bedroom. "After filming I had several hundred reels. I separated problem reels which required special attention in processing. These I would do later. The first batch was sent through to Washington, and I processed the remainder a few days later. Once the remaining reels had been processed, I contacted Washington to arrange collection of the final batch. Incredibly, they never came to collect or arrange transportation for them. I called many times and then just gave up. The footage has remained with me ever since". Ray Santilli alleges this to be the cameraman's own story of the monumental foul-up which allowed him to store the reels of "Roswell" film. But one point which seems quite clear is that these were not the occasional "problem" reels from the autopsy, these reels contain most, if not in fact all, of the film which he shot. The clues are in the documentation of the reels, as demonstrated in "Roswell: The Footage", the video released by Ray Santilli's own company, Roswell Footage Ltd. This contains the "raw" footage and helpfully, each reel is preceded by a description. The autopsy footage reportedly consists of the following reels: Reel No. 53 Body No. 2 10:05 Reel Un-numbered Body/Leg 10:20 Reel No. 56 Body/Leg No. 2 10:40 Reel No. 59 Chest No. 2 Reel No. 61 Chest No. 2 Reel No. 62 Head/Eyes No. 2 Reel No. 63 Head No. 2 11:30 Reel No. 64 Head No. 2 Reel Un-numbered Brain 11:45 The time is taken from the clock visible at certain points. The last reel isn't numbered, but the content follows on from the previous reel and judging by the time on the clock, it would seem to be "Reel No. 65". The first reel, which does show the opening sequences, is "Reel No. 53" and the total number of reels would therefore be thirteen. Ray Santilli has at least nine of those reels and as the cameraman's story claims that none of them were never forwarded, then, at best, only four reels of film could ever have been. And that's assuming Santilli doesn't have them also. He claims, "a good 50% of the footage we had, we were not able to retrieve an image from", although there seem to be anomalies with that claim. The "second autopsy" footage released by Santilli is only one of two such films he has. The other, claimed to be the "first autopsy", was shown privately to a few people, but has never been released on video. It's apparently very similar, but features a slightly smaller body, which has no visible injuries. Judging from descriptions, Santilli again seems to have most, if not all, of this film. It might be conceivable that a few "problem" reels could be overlooked, but the story is actually about two unique and historical films of inestimable scientific and medical value, yet, seemingly of no subsequent interest to anyone. Despite the certain government and military concerns about the Russians acquiring some knowledge of the incident and, more importantly, the technology which was recovered, the security procedures were so strict and the "cover up" so thorough, that the cameraman could take home over 20 reels of film showing the recovery, debris, both autopsies and even some film confirming the presence of President Truman! That's exactly what Ray Santilli claims to have acquired - although the recovery and Truman images were unfortunatley "irretrievable". It may seem a somewhat incredulous scenario, nevertheless, it is the true perspective of the "Roswell" footage story. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Launch Date for 2nd '97 Shuttle Mission to Hubble From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:19:18 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:44:46 -0500 Subject: Launch Date for 2nd '97 Shuttle Mission to Hubble Debbie Rahn/Jennifer McCarter Headquarters, Washington, DC January 31, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1778) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Ed Campion/Rob Navias Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX (Phone: 281/483-5111) Lisa Malone/Bruce Buckingham Kennedy Space Center, FL (Phone: 407/867-2468) RELEASE: 97-21 NASA MANAGERS SET FEB. 11 AS LAUNCH DATE FOR SECOND SHUTTLE SERVICING MISSION TO HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE Following completion of a flight readiness review meeting, NASA managers set Feb. 11 as the official launch date for NASA's second Shuttle mission of the year. The mission, designated STS-82, is the second in a series of planned servicing missions to the orbiting Hubble Space Telescope (HST). Following rendezvous with and retrieval of the HST on the third day of the mission, four space walks on four successive days will take place as the astronauts remove and replace various HST components. Work performed on the telescope will significantly upgrade the scientific capabilities of the HST and keep the telescope functioning smoothly until the next scheduled servicing mission in 1999. The launch window on Feb. 11 opens at 3:56 a.m. EST and extends for 65 minutes. Discovery's mission duration is planned for nine days, 22 hours, 47 minutes. The STS-82 mission will conclude with Discovery returning home to the Kennedy Space Center, FL, on Feb. 21 at about 2:43 a.m. EST. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Near Earth Asteroid & Comet Discovered From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:22:00 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:41:19 -0500 Subject: Near Earth Asteroid & Comet Discovered Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC January 29, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Sender: owner-press-release Precedence: bulk Diane Ainsworth Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 97-20 PLANETARY ASTRONOMERS START YEAR WITH TWO DISCOVERIES Two newly detected members of the Solar System -- a rare asteroid orbiting close to Earth and a distant comet making its only appearance -- mark the first discoveries of the year for a team of astronomers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. The discoveries, reported Jan. 10 by JPL planetary scientists Eleanor Helin, Steve Pravdo, David Rabinowitz and Ken Lawrence, were made possible with a few nights of clear observing weather and use of a sensitive, charge-coupled device (CCD) camera called the Near-Earth Asteroid Tracking (NEAT) system at Mt. Haleakala, Maui, HI. Since their initial sightings, both objects have become the focus of worldwide observations by astronomers in Japan, China, Australia, Canada, Italy and the Czech Republic. "This asteroid is a member of a rare class of asteroids, called Atens, which stay within Earth's orbit most of their lifetimes," said Helin, principal investigator of the NEAT project. "The object has a higher inclination to the plane of Earth's orbit than most Atens; in fact, at 31 degrees, it has the second highest inclination of all the Atens we've discovered." The highly inclined orbit, which is unusual, may result from long-range interactions with the planets, or may be the outcome of previous orbits passing near the Earth. With the discovery of more Atens, the relative importance of these competing influences may be better understood. Dubbed 1997 AC11, the asteroid is a faint object with an absolute magnitude of 21, and probably measures about 600 feet in diameter. It is only the 24th Aten to be discovered in 21 years, since Helin found and named the first Aten in January 1976. With orbits that are smaller than Earth's, and short periods, Atens are in the vicinity of Earth frequently. This closeness to Earth makes them more likely to impact the planet than other types of asteroids. "Atens never wander far from the orbit of Earth and can cross Earth's orbit as many as four times a year," Helin said. "1997 AC11, for instance, has a period of 8/10ths of a year, or roughly 9.5 months. As we continue to observe it in coming months, we will be able to characterize its orbital path with more precision. With more precise data, we will be able to examine its potential for collision with Earth at some time in the future." Along with the newest Aten, astronomers also discovered a new comet, still distant but moving toward the Earth and Sun, as it passed through the constellation of Leo. Designated Comet 1997 A1, the celestial snowball is expected to make its closest approach to Earth on Feb. 6, passing at a distance of about 230 million miles, but remaining visible in the night sky for several months thereafter. "This comet has traveled a long distance, originating in the Oort Cloud, a region far beyond Pluto's orbit which is believed to house trillions of incipient comets," Helin said. "It has a parabolic orbit, which means it will travel through our Solar System once and probably never be seen again. Parabolic comets do not present their calling cards before arriving in the inner Solar System. They appear without warning." At discovery, 1997 A1 was fairly dim at magnitude 19, and showed a weakly condensed nucleus with a diffuse halo and short tail, Helin said. The Minor Planet Center at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, MA, announced the discovery, reporting it as a parabolic comet, with an orbital inclination of 145 degrees from the ecliptic plane, and indicated that it would not pass any closer than 3.17 astronomical units (295 million miles) from the Sun. JPL's NEAT team, in conjunction with another observing effort under way at the Laboratory's Table Mountain Observatory in San Bernardino, CA, will continue to track and characterize the comet over the next several months until it is no longer visible. During its closest approach on Feb. 6, the newly discovered comet will be visible in the constellation of Cancer and brighten to a magnitude of about 18. Moderate-sized telescopes with CCD chips will be able to observe the comet, Helin said. Astronomers report that the comet is continuing to outgas, or warm up and boil off some of its ices, as it moves toward the Sun. Low-resolution black-and-white images of both objects are posted on the Internet at the following URL: http://huey.jpl.nasa.gov/~spravdo/neat.html Discoveries of very faint or distant objects, and those surprisingly close by, are increasing due to the introduction of technologically advanced, fully autonomous CCD telescopes. The NEAT camera, for example, employs a very large, very sensitive 4,096-by-4,096-pixel CCD. The camera is installed on a 39-inch telescope operated at the summit of Mt. Haleakala by the U.S. Air Force. Using this powerful, fully automated system, astronomers are discovering many more objects than was possible in the past. The January observing run, for instance, produced more than 700 asteroid sightings, including high-inclination inner-belt asteroids and a number of potential Mars-crossers, which will be confirmed after more observations become available. Total detections since NEAT began operations in late 1995 have climbed to more than 9,000 objects, of which more than 50 percent are new objects and more than 800 of those have received new designations. NEAT was built and is being managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 A manual for sceptic militants! From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:14:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:47:20 -0500 Subject: A manual for sceptic militants! Forwarded from a post in the newsgroup sci.sceptic : - forwarded message - Pierre-Normand Houle pnhoule@aei.ca Hi, I'm a member of Quebec's skeptics association (Les Sceptiques du=20 Qu=E9bec) affiliated to the SCICOP. Our group is growing biger (350+=20 members) and our members are being seen and heard often at local TV=20 and radio shows. More than 100 people usually come at our monthly=20 evening gatherings. We are soon to celebrate our 10th aniversary. We would like to produce a manual (in French to start with) so that=20 our people can get a training in the ABC of skepticism. This is=20 specially important as more and more people speaks in the media in our=20 name. In addition to some information about alternative medicines, the=20 paranormal, UFO's, pseudo-sciences... and such topics as : -Science and the scientific method -Psychological aspects of paranormal beliefs -Epistemology... we would like to talk about how to *BE* a Skeptic (i.e. a militant of=20 a Skeptics association) . So we'd like to gather information,=20 suggestions, tips from experienced members from other associations on=20 topics such as: -How to talk in the media and in public -What attitude to have while confrontig the believers -How to effectively promote critical thinking -What is the aim of skeptics associations... Any other idea on what a skeptic should know ? We already have 50+ books and zillions bulletins and news-sheets from=20 skeptics associations all over the world, thanks to the SCICOP. Is there a sci.skeptic FAQ ? What are your recomendation as most=20 useful readings ? Thanks for any help or suggestions (And sorry for my bad English) Pierre-Normand Houle pnhoule@aei.ca ----------------------------------------- Kevin O'Crean 'Hammer' of the Hoaxers! Occult and UFOlogy Commentator 'Commonsense & Discernment precedes Truth' ----------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:58:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:48:34 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again John Powell and I are still picking over details of the Budd Hopkins "Linda" case... > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again I'd written -- giving an example of how mail from the various principals in the case look: > >"Janet Kimball" (the woman who supposedly saw the abduction > >from the Brooklyn Bridge) has a trait all her own -- she put adhesive > >labels with big red borders on her first envelope. On the labels she's > >written "re: Brooklyn Bridge." Nobody else's envelopes have anything > >like that. John mused: > Maybe Hopkins asked her to do that. Not likely, since she did that on the first letter she ever sent to him (actually a thin package, containing a long letter and various drawings of what she said she'd seen). This package arrived out of the blue, and in fact he didn't open it until she contacted him again. Unless, of course, someone believes the whole thing is a hoax that Hopkins pulled. Then he, or someone working with him, was planning every detail like that. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Quotes Query From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:06:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:43:33 -0500 Subject: Quotes Query Can anyone here help me? I'm looking for the exact original form of two well-known quotes. One is J. Allen Hynek's line about 21st century science, and the other is the Arthur C. Clarke chestnut about an advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic. I've seen these written so many times. I've seen them quoted here. But I don't have them anywhere that I know of. Surely someone here knows one or the other, and can take a moment to type them out for me! Many thanks (and a share in the residuals from the piece I'm writing, that I want to quote these lines in...and if you think there's any money in that, let me tell you about a writer's life....<ggg>) Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Coincidence? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: 30 Jan 97 10:45:48 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:42:25 -0500 Subject: Coincidence? Take a look at http://datahand.com Looks to me like the control panels from the debris footage re-engineered for five-fingered hands. This product is based on a series of patents filed by Dale J. Retter, beginning in 1990 and continuing through 1996. First public disclosure of the new "keyboard" was in a press release from DataHand Inc. sent out in January of 1996 to the computer press. If the film is a controlled release, then it would make sense to get patents in the works before that release. I'm looking into the background of Dale J. Retter. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Media Alert - Feb 7, 1997 From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:42:06 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:51:07 -0500 Subject: Media Alert - Feb 7, 1997 On Friday February 7, 1997 at 9 PM on the Life Channel, the 'Search For Ancient Wisdom' will be shown. This is the video based on the CD-ROM of the same name. It deals with ancient astronaut theories and the centuries old cover-up of this information by secret societies (Mason's) of the knowledge that the beings existed. Produced by Bob and Bea Connolly who live in the greater Toronto area. Drew Williamson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Project 1947 - 1860, 1874 From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:08:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:52:23 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 1860, 1874 Another historical file. From: <legion@werple.net.au> Message-Id: <199612302030.UAA17026@werple.net.au> Subject: PJ-47 - 1860, 1874 To: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 07:30:32 +1100 (EST) *THE LONDON, EDINBURGH AND DUBLIN PHILOSOPHICAL MAGAZINE AND JOURNAL OF SCIENCE, July-December 1874, page 221. A memoir of Meteors of Various Sorts by T. I. M. Forster, GRAS, Bruges 1041. "In July 1799, Dr. Forster's father saw a meteor cross the sky from south to north, then returning southward, and finally bend to the north-west. Another peculiarity is that of rising in the sky instead of descending which has been reported as occuring sometimes near the equator, where they are very numerous. And Dr. Forster saw a whitish globe stationary for two second, and then turn a fine red.=FF =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "September 12, 1860 "On the night of the 6th inst. a few minutes past 10 o'clock our attention was called to a strange light in the heavens. On going out into the gallery we had a magnificent view of it. It appeared to the naked eye, about 300 yards in length, extending from North to West appearing just above the tallest trees. Its color was that of a red hot stove from the centre beautiful rays resembling those of the sun drawing water, would ascend to a considerable height, the whole presenting a very beautiful adn sublime appearance. We watched it for about an hour without preceiving it to change any. What was it?--South Western" "The Weather Bureau explains such things to us now." US Department of Agriculture--Weather Bureau at Shreveport, Louisana. -- J. W. Cronit, Meteorologist SOURCE: _Chronicles of Shreveport_, by Maude Hearn-O'Pry, 1928, page 99. (Checked Shreveport SUN for 1860--no report---jla) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D *Edinburgh Courant 1867 August 20 1000 PM Very large vivid blue ball of fire...paused, faded and resumed. Report to BAAS 1868 (348) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D *Times Jun 15, Jul 2=FFSS 1868 (370) 1868 June 8 950 PM "A thick haze all light and mock-moon at 1340." meteor 5 degrees length and 1 degree in breadth--white--duration 4 minutes appeared like comet or luminous smoke cloud. First seen west of Polaris. On starting motions it left train broader than itself which remained after disappeared when near Leo it turned southward to near alpha Leonids. Northward again. Reports to BASS 1868 (370) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------* Search for other documents from or mentioning: jan | legion |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:29:27 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:46:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: 28 Jan 97 09:12:24 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Yes the face was supposed to be blacked out. What apparently happened is that > Jack may know movie technique but knows nothing about video. > He was videoed as you can see in front of a bright screen with big lights, one > of which you can see in the photo. When you view this on your TV just set > normally, all you see is a silhouette. This was what he intended. However, on > video you can control brightness, and when Ray showed me the video we cranked > the brightness on his TV all the way up so we could see Jack's face. The > Japanese probably did this and more for their broadcast. Bob, This is almost too comical. Did Ray realize that the face could be seen by increasing the brightness or did you discover that? I would like to know if Ray knew this before or after it was sold to the Japanese and Bob Kiviat. I've heard somewhere that Bob Kiviat said he was NOT allowed to screen this specifically because the face could be recognized. Do you know why the Japanese were allowed to show it and Bob Kiviat wasn't? Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:06:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:49:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos The honorable Peregrine asks a question. > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> > To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos > It would be interesting to hear an informed opinion as to whether a captured > frame published for *news* purposes does in fact consititute > a breach of copyright. My somewhat informed opinion is that it does not. When I worked as music editor of Entertainment Weekly magazine (Time, Inc. publication, not likely to breach copyrights) we often pulled stills from videos. Once we got into a tiff with Madonna's publicist. Don't remember what naughtiness Madonna was up to at the time, but it involved a supposedly shocking video. We wanted a copy, to pull stills for a story. M's dragon-in-waiting said no. (She's a good woman, actually, but very fierce when M. requires that. My favorite comment from her, when I'd injudiciously said that M. seemed "nice" in her film "Truth or Dare": "Madonna is NOT nice!") Faced with this refusal, I told her we'd just pull the stills from TV. We won that round, and no one on either side seemed to think pulling a still from a video shown on TV -- when you're using it in a news story -- would violate copyright. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Project 1947 - Norad Alert, October 1975 From: Francis Ridge <slk@WORLD.EVANSVILLE.NET> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 14:18:05 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:53:34 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - Norad Alert, October 1975 Hi Jan and List Members, I retyped and updated the following report for everyone. I also posted it on my ufofc mailing list and will eventually place it on the our web site. If interested, read it and/or save it. If not, delete it. THE NIGHT NORAD WENT ON TOP ALERT By Francis L. Ridge This updated paper was originally printed in the MUFON UFO JOURNAL, Issue Number 192, February 1984. The incident reportedly occurred in 1975. Several years ago when I first heard of the "mysterious helicopter overflights" of several key U. S. Air Force SAC bases, I treated the whole matter very lightly. I didn't think it was a UFO matter. In 1983 I received over 400 pages of FOIA documents from the Fund For UFO Research and read the pages concerning those overflights and found to my surprise that the word helicopter wasn't used that much. Also, the descriptions of the objects and their maneuvers sounded like the UFOs I had been investigating and researching since 1960. Later on in the documents the word helicopters becomes UFOs. Before I get into the report of the alert at NORAD, briefly these are some of the highlights of the overflights: ---October 27. Loring AFB, Maine. "Unidentified helicopter" penetrated the base perimeter and on one occasion came within approximately 300 yards of the weapons storage area. Object circled for 13 minutes. ---October 29. Loring AFB, Maine. An "unidentified aircraft approached the base, came within 100' of the WSA (Weapons Storage Area) on two occasions." Later, ""Unknown helicopter" landed in the munitions storage area for the second night in a row. ---October 31. Wurtsmith AFB, Michigan. Unknown "helicopter hovered over SAC weapons storage area, then departed area". Tanker at 2700 feet made both visual and radar skin paint at 35NM SE over Lake Huron. ---November 1. Loring AFB, Maine. Probable helicopter overflight of base reported. ---November 7. Malmstrom AFB, Montana. 341st SAC Post reported a large red to orange to yellow object by missile locations M-1, L-3, LIMA and L-6. LCF at Harlowton, Montana, observed an object which emitted a light which illuminated the site driveway. L-1 reported that an object to their northeast appeared to be issuing a black object from it, tubular in shape. ---November 8. Malmstrom AFB, Montana. 24th NORAD Region unknown track J330, heading SSW, 10-13,000 feet. 1 to 7 objects. Two F-106 scrambled out of Great Falls. SAC reported visual sighting from Sabotage Alert Teams K1, K3, L1 and L6. K3 and L4 reported visuals, K3 reports target at 300 feet and L4 reported target at 5 miles. Intermittent radar contact from Great Falls search and height radar. SAC CP reported that when F-106s were in area, targets would turn out lights, and when F-106's left, targets would turn lights on. ---Nov 9. FAA Watch Supervisor reported a United 157 seeing a meteor. ---Nov 10. Minot AFB, North Dakota. Bright star-like object about the size of a car passed over radar station, 1,000 feet to 2,000 high, no noise heard. In 1983 I was the sole guest of radio station WGBF in Evansville, Indiana, for a two hour call-in type talk show program. During that show an anonymous caller reported a very interesting report, a somewhat sinister event that allegedly took place at NORAD, the North American Air Defense Command, at about the same time as those overflights. The moderator and I asked the man to contact me later to document what he had reported. According to this man, it was a full-scale Security Option 5 Alert, and UFOs and investigators from the "Air Force UFO division" were part of the picture. I also obtained some information about the codes used in the 25 pages of data I had in my personal possession on those overflights. And it is obvious that there is more that is being withheld. The pages we have on the overflights are incomplete reports, most of the follow-up data is missing. The reams of pages to the actual reports and all the subsequent comments are still withheld. The pages that we have represent only communication from computer to computer or operator to operator. In other words, the initial filing only. According to my source who served in Air Force security at NORAD, the documents merely say, "I'm making a report. It's up to you to make your report, etc." NORAD is the National Combat Operations Center (or was at the time of the incident) and is based at Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado. The Command Post is located deep inside the mountain and supposedly can withstand a 10-megaton direct direct hit. UFOs raise quite a bit of havoc when sighted by military people and detected on radar near any sensitive military installation, but especially at Cheyenne Mountain. When bonified UFOs violate airspace over NORAD's Command Post, there should be serious concern. In late October 1975, evidently there was enough concern to go into a Security Option 5 Alert. According to our informant, nobody was allowed to enter the base, except cleared, high-ranking officers or cleared security patrols. No one was to leave. Those personnel on base who had just completed duty were rolled out of bed. Jet interceptors were scrambled into the air. In fact, everything they put in the air during an attack on the U.S. was airborne. The men had worked the third shift of duty at NORAD and came off about eight in the morning. Everybody in the group of approximately nine or ten men went home, got their hunting and camping gear together and met at the home of one of the guys. They then took off for one of their routine hunting trips, one of the things they liked to do together. One of the fellows who was supposed to go, wound up on radar duty, a circumstance that later proved valuable as evidence for what happened at the Mountain that day. Another man in the group later became an airline pilot for United Airlines and a couple of years later secured some information about an airline case that occurred the same evening as their alert. United had filed a UFO report with the Air Force! To start off, my informant told me, "We weren't drunk!" He said that they had been hunting all day and they had sat down and ate a late dinner near a warm cozy fire and were getting ready to turn in. One of the guys thought he saw a shooting star. There appeared to be some unusual animal activity/noise for about 15 minutes. It was late, between 10 PM and midnight. One of the other fellows said, "Well, there's two of them!" So, they stopped, kindled the fire down and eventually put it out completely. What they then saw were three distinctly different lights (not on one object, but separate) moving to a point to where they blurred across the horizon and then they would stop, move back in the opposite direction and then move away from them to a point where they almost couldn't see them anymore. Then the lights would move again. "We were thinking our eyes were playing tricks on us until they lined up almost abreast of each other and proceeded directly toward the Mountain," continues Mr. E (as I shall call him). Right after this (approximately 6 to 8 minutes later) they heard the buzzers go and the Mountain went on alert! At this point they, themselves, scrambled, got their gear packed up quickly and headed for the Mountain and their posts. They had been on leave 10 to 12 hours but were still on call, attached to the security of the Mountain, except for the pilot. So they hustled back as their orders dictated. From the campsite to the Mountain was a drive of about 45 minutes to an hour, and they drove there in a hurry, entering the gate at 0210. They showed their passes and were admitted (only because they were part of the bases's security). They were not given a chance to change clothes and were still in their hunting gear. They grabbed their weapons and went to their assigned posts and stayed on alert until 0600, when the alert was "stepped down". Later, the fellow who had been on radar duty reported he had tracked UFOs for a good 20 minutes. Two or three days later, they were altogether again and they asked him if he had tracked anything on his radar, and he said he had. He reported that it was "weird" and proceeded to describe it to them, word for word, what they had also seen visually. At first it was very erratic (the movement of the first UFO as stated by Mr. E). Mr. E. stated to me later that there appeared to be trails behind the objects at the time. The description sounds as if it could have been "persistence of vision" where a lighted object appears to leave a fading image behind it as it moves quickly across a dark background. A couple of days later, one of the group mentioned to someone that they had seen some lighted objects right before the alert. Some of the men in the group started checking into the records as to the reason for the scramble and security alert and found that nothing had been filed. They then started asking around to see if they could find something, anything, to explain the occurrence at the base. It was then that the AF "UFO people" showed up. Mr. E. referred to the investigators as the Air Force UFO division, "whatever they were called---came out to talk to us." They interviewed the group (and who else at NORAD?) one by one and everybody's story matched, even the radar operator's, where the UT's (Uncorrelated Targets) maneuvered for over 20 minutes. He filed a report with the AF investigators. He was told to ignore it and continue about his business, not to worry about it. The group was ordered at that time not to mention the incident. "As long as we were in uniform, we were not to discuss it with anyone other than military personnel with an official need-to-know and the fellows from the Air Force investigating team that came out to talk to us." They told the group that they had seen navigational lights or landing lights. Mr. E stated his group had all been in Viet Nam and were familiar with navigation lights. They had seen night fighters working, taking off and landing many times. They were told by the investigators that their report could not be taken seriously since they couldn't describe a shape or color, other than white, like a shooting star. It would appear that the Air Force was very glad that that is all the men could report. We knew that nocturnal lights can be important evidence, especially in conjunction with other better-quality reports and radar cases as backup evidence. It is also strange that the men were asked not to relate their stories to anyone "outside". They were told that incident fell under a document which Mr. E recognized as Publication 6, Vol. 5. I am aware of it, but do not as yet have a copy. However, I am told that it is a CIRVIS document (Communications Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings) and therefore falls under the Communications Act of 1934 with severe penalties or fines attached to it. Also, Mr. E kept saying that "They played it off like it wasn't anything." Yet, a Security Option 5 Alert is very serious, indeed. The overflight documents (the ones we were allowed to see, that is) mention a Security Option 3 being exercised, with UFOs showing "clear intent" near a weapon storage area. When some of the group tried to check the records, they could find no evidence of an alert. "We couldn't find anything in the records that were available to us." said Mr. E. "Now, we didn't try to get into clearance areas, but the records that were available to us were primarily security records." Even the files of the radar man of the group were devoid of any mention of any alert. It appeared that all material relating to the event had been pulled! Within about sixty days, everyone in the group received a written reprimand for drinking on duty, which none of them had done. In fact, they weren't even on duty at the time of the sighting. The men were reportedly not abused or mistreated. Nor were there any stripes pulled or were any of the men "passed over" by their superiors. They simply received a written reprimand, which came "out of nowhere", dated the same day as the sightings," a copy of which was placed in their 201 file. The radar man, who was still in the Air Force when I investigated this incident, according to my informant received the letter mentioning drinking on duty and dereliction of duty. He was the only one who lost a promotion about six months later, simply because this was on his record. In the overflight documents there is one page that states, and I quote, "3) HQ USAF/DADF also forwarded a copy of a NORAD document for a review for possible downgrade and release. We have determined the document is properly and currently classified and is exempt from disclosure under Public Law 90-23, 5 USC 552b(1)." This was signed by Col. Terrence C. James, USAF, Director of Administration. There is another page that mentions a "security camper team at K-4 reporting a UFO with white lights" at. 0635Z (11:35 PM local). But this one was at Malmstrom AFB, Montana, on 8 Nov. Something very strange was going on in the late fall of 1975. Going on the assumption that UFOs are real and there is a reason for everything, I thought about this series of events as I watched and worried about two sons in the military during the Gulf War. What we were doing was in response to a threat we perceived. Waves of flights and a few crashes. Were WE (U.S. or Soviets) doing something that caused the overflights of 1975? It is my opinion that we were. How many years will it take before we find out? It took over 30 years to find out how close the super powers were to nuclear annihilation in the early 1950's, a period of intense UFO scrutiny. And even earlier than that, two years after we dropped two atomic bombs on mostly civilians, we were testing rockets that (to outside observers) could deliver them from afar. Within a six week period there were over 1,000 sightings (50% were daylight discs) and the crash at Roswell. END
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:29:07 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:30:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Camerman Photos >>From: XianneKei@aol.com >>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:34:45 -0500 (EST) >>To: updates@globalserve.net (ufoupdates-toronto) >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Autopsy Camerman Photos > Rebecca asked... >>Isn't there something called "Fair Use" where you can extract a certain >>number of words (I think 200 for printed matter for review purposes) or >>say a >certain number of frames for review purposes. I see in the >>American magazine "People Weekly" that they have a frame captured from >>a Larry King TV show in an article about the death of Bill Cosby's son. >>The credit says: Courtesy CNN. Couldn't that same thing be done for >>Mr. Santilli's cameraman? Of course, who would you credit, the Japanese >>or Orbital? > *I did ask Santilli, but he replied "We really wish to hold back use of > the Cameraman's image until May. You may find this strange in view of the > Japanese broadcast, but you should know that the transmission was the > result of a misunderstanding." HaHaHaHaHa! A likely story! What else can he say? That Santilli, he's got some nerve. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:42:44 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:57:18 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:07 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > The _only_ thing we presently know is that there _is_ a reliable, > statistically significant, and very interesting concurrance. Uh - but that's *not* true, John. That's the whole point. When you examine how the stats were fudged, there *is* no such correlation. > My _personal_ opinion is that geomagnetic activity probably does explain > the great majority of _simple_, short-duration, non-descript DDs and NLs. I can't say that I agree with your opinion, but it's yours to hold. When we actually look at the NL and DD data, there are very few that appear to be explainable as EM activity. Airplanes and fireballs, maybe, but not EM activity. > Which is fine anyway since by definition these simple, short-duration and > non-descript DDs and NLs don't look good in a high-detail multi-observer > database and (hopefully) aren't the stuff we want to explain/understand first. Oh, I don't know about that. If we can't understand the basic and overwhleming majority of UFO reports, I wonder how ufology can come to terms with more complex cases. > I should also point out that the best UFO flaps on record are probably _not > in any way_ connected with geomagnetic activity: Gulf Breeze, Belgium, > Bentwaters, the 1947-era, Husdon Valley, (and others I can't remember right > now). ... although Devereux explained the Welsh Revival flap as due to EM activity (Earth Lights), for one. - Chris PS: Heed Pat's warning, John! Have you ever had that feeling you were being watched ... ;) -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Ufology 'Stalled'? From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 17:14:46 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:58:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Ufology 'Stalled'? >From: Nick Humphries <nickh@PhoneLink.COM> >To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Ufology stalled? >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:00:29 -0000 >Here's an article which I recently sent to Usenet which I think might >be better answered here... >---------------------- >In the past decade or two, how far has ufology progressed? >What advances have been made? [snip] Hello Nick, So, what's your point? I came to the same conclusion over 18 months ago, after investigating Ufology for only three months! You should be able to find my posts in the UFO Updates archives. Other than producing some pulp fiction and a few terrible docu-dramas, I haven't seen a darn thing to impress me. I mean no offense to any one individual, as I know and have spoken to several well-intentioned, determined researchers. At the risk of repeating myself,,, I have the training and experience to do a quick, down and dirty evaluation of investigation efforts which have been made public to date, along with an overview of the entire field. The bottom line, very little has changed from the 1970's. Truely aggressive, effective scientific efforts are not being made, at least not to the public. Perhaps others feel as I do. I wasted many months tring to track down so-called organizations such as the Phoenix Group and others. You would think that anyone with any real pull would have picked up on what I was writing and checked my credentials with DIS and/or DOD. After all, guys with my training, background and rating don't grow on trees, (contrary to the mass media, which would have you believing that there is a spook under every bush). Until things change, I will continue a solo investigation. Is this wise, hell no! Will it help Ufology, probably not. Until something changes I will continue to enjoy the wonderful work of Errol and others, to provide an open forum of discussion. The subject sure beats politics! Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: About Professor Courtney Brown From: ParadigmRG@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:50:51 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:51:14 -0500 Subject: Re: About Professor Courtney Brown >Subject: Re: Courtney Brown >Sent: 1/29/97 3:06 PM >Received: 1/29/97 3:08 PM >From: Bill Chace, >Bill_Chace@learnlink.emory.edu >To: pparri@republic.net >A Statement about Professor Courtney Brown >Professor Courtney Brown is a member of the Emory faculty and >teaches in the Department of Political Science......................... _________________ Dr. Chase: Thank you for publishing this post. The field of study which constitutes what some call UFOlogy and I call extraterrestrial related phenomena research is an emotionally intense arena. For 50 years it has languished outside the mainstream scientific world as the purview of a complex mix of well meaning citizens. The slow and difficult process by the which members of the mainstream academic community elect to commit their time and resources to aspects of this field is of critical importance to its resolution. The willingness of those in authority to maintain an open mind and be steadfast as to fairness and freedom of inquiry is equally important. You have done a great service. The jury, of course, is still out as to the substance and direction of Dr. Brown's avocational work. But he is not the only researcher and his is not the only area of study. Ultimately, freedom of inquiry will sort out the valid from the invalid and produce a result we can all be proud of - whatever the nature and import of that result. P.S. I spent many fine hours at Emory and hold it in high regard. Stephen Bassett SGBConsult 4938 Hampden Lane, Suite 161 Bethesda, MD 20814 301-564-1820 301-564-4066 fax 500-265-1966 national number SGBConsult@aol.com Providing professional, Washington, DC based, consulting, research and lobbying for individuals and organizations pursuing the field of extraterrestrial phenomena research. Search for other documents from or mentioning: paradigmrg | bill_chace
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: About Professor Courtney Brown From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 21:27:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 21:27:49 -0500 Subject: Re: About Professor Courtney Brown >>Subject: Re: Courtney Brown >>Sent: 1/29/97 3:06 PM >>Received: 1/29/97 3:08 PM >>From: Bill Chace, Bill_Chace@learnlink.emory.edu >>To: pparri@republic.net [snip] >Dr. Chase: The Doctor's name is spelled 'Chace' not 'Chase' >Thank you for publishing this post. The field of study which constitutes >what some call UFOlogy and I call extraterrestrial related phenomena research >is an emotionally intense arena. Some, perhaps a very few call it or spell it 'UFOlogy' - most, if not practically all, spell it 'ufology'. To pronounce it U-F-O-logy (as your upper case first three letters suggest) is un-necessarily tongue-tripping. 'Yew-fology' is simpler. [snip] >Providing professional, Washington, DC based, consulting, research and >lobbying for individuals and organizations pursuing the field of >extraterrestrial phenomena research. If you're going to represent ufology in Washington, as a professional, may I suggest that you refer to us as 'ufologists' and not 'UFOlogists'? Errol Bruce-Knapp