UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 1897 Report From: ilyes@earthlink.net (by way of Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net>) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:21:04 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 10:43:35 -0500 Subject: 1897 Report fROM Ufologist Ilyes Doe: ____________________________________________________________________ The following Forwarded to me by RonR (ronr@eco-net.com ), 1/29/97 LITTLE SAUCER ON THE PRAIRIE During the last days of January 1897 in the town of Hastings, Nebraska, 160 miles southwest of Omaha a major sighting occurred. According to the Kansas Semi-Weekly Capital of March 31, 1897, the UFO was seen the morning of Sunday, January 24, 1897. People thought a mysterious inventor was experimenting with an "airship" about 10 miles (16 kilometers) west of the small city. The UFO circled for a few minutes and then zoomed away to the north. Here's the story as it appeared in the Omaha, Nebraska Bee for February 2, 1897: "Several Hastings people report that an air ship, or something of the kind, has been sailing around in the air west of this city. It was first noticed sometime last fall when it was seen floating in the air about 500 feet (175 meters) above the ground, and after standing still for about 30 minutes, it began to to circle about and took a northerly direction for about two miles, after which it returned to its starting place and sank into oblivion." "Since that time it has not been seen until last Sunday evening, when it was observed standing nearly still, a few miles west of Hastings and seemingly about 800 feet in the air." "At first sight it had the appearance of an immense star, but after closer observation the powerful light shows by its color to be artificial. It certainly must be illuminated by powerful electric dynamos for the light sent forth by it is wonderful." "At 9:30 last Monday night (January 25, 1897) the large glaring light was seen to circle around for a few minutes and then descended for about 200 feet, circling as it traveled at a remarkable speed for about two miles and then slowing up it circled for fully 15 minutes, when it began to lower and disappear as mysteriously as it had made its appearance...A close watch is being kept for its reappearance." On February 5, 1897, the Omaha Bee reported that the UFO had been sighted again, this time at Invale, a tiny farm town 40 miles (64 kilometers) south of Hastings, near the Kansas state line. The UFO was seen by people returning from a prayer meeting. "It (the UFO) seemed to be conical-shaped and perhaps 30 to 40 feet in length, with a bright headlight and six smaller lights, three on a side, and seemed to have two sets of wings on a side, with a large fan-shaped rudder," the Bee reported. The Invale witnesses claimed to have heard rumbling engine noises and the voices of the "airship's" occupants. (See the Omaha, Nebraska Bee for February 2 and February 5, 1897, plus the Kansas Semi-Weekly Capital of Topeka, Kansas for March 31, 1897 "Strange Light in the Sky.") via Joseph Trainors ufo roundup service - end - -- - ilyes National Coordinator Centre for CropCircle Studies / US Network To visit my HomePage on Mark and Stuart's award-winning website, click below - don't forget to BookMark! explore The CropCircle Connector: http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html go direct to my HomePage: http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/crop_circles/anasazi/ilyes.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 DISPATCH #38 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 19:56:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 10:45:27 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH #38 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #38 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 1/31/97 Quote of the Week "I drive through the streets of South Central and point out to my driver the undercover FBI agents who are standing on the street corners just waiting to arrest people for buying or selling a single rock of crack cocaine." -- U.S. Congresswoman Maxine Waters on the "war on drugs" -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week! Some of you wrote in after last week's rant asking if it was a real letter. We (obviously) aren't suggesting the "facts" of our weekly rants are real, but they really are genuine letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters. So, trust us when we present this real letter, (an excerpt of a larger rant) that is our new rant of the week: "In addition to these activities, a large Sirian Peace Angel was successfully anchored onto Haleakala on November 11, 1996 (9 Ahau, 8 Xul, 5 Eb) during my birthday visit to Maui. Before the ceremony was performed, many people reported that a large angelic shaped cloud was seen off the coast of the south west part of Maui in the Kihei-Wailea area in the early and mid-morning of the same date. The purpose of this anchoring was to complete the energies needed to prepare Earth's new grid for its vitalization before end of December or the ending of the galactic month of Mol. These grids are part of the entire process of preparing Earth for the divine intervention of the Galactic Federation of Light by a mass landing on or before the date of December 17, 1996 (in galactic time, 6 Cib, 4 Mol, 5 Eb). These landings are proceeding on time and have been marked by the increasing boldness and activity of the ships of the galactic fleet." [Alas, the landing did not take place. Keep watching the skies! Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names withheld to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Join Us For Live Web Chat We continue to host the best chats on the Web for folks interested in paranorm al activity, conspiracies and UFOs. Saturdays at 9pm ET are the usual times to catch our live chats, but be sure to check our web site (www.parascope.com) for details. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Help Identify the "Mysterious Cameraman" Someone wants to keep you from seeing the face of the mysterious cameraman who is purported to have shot the infamous "alien autopsy" footage. Despite efforts to suppress the photo, ParaScope has posted the cameraman's picture on both our web and AOL sites, and are interested in any leads our readers can offer as to the individual's identity. Check out next week's update to this tangled scenario, and see if the "alien autopsy cameraman" is a face you've seen before! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week, on a daily basis on America Online, or next Thursday on the web site! Monday, Feb 3: The Lesotho Incident According to documents obtained by ufologist Joachim Koch, an extraterrestrial craft crashed in the kingdom of Lesotho, South Africa on September 15, 1995. The craft, and its live alien occupants, were retrieved by a covert South African rapid reaction force. Are these documents a Majestic 12-style hoax, or are they a cosmic "smoking gun?" ParaScope cautiously presents Joachim Koch's analysis of the Lesotho Incident. ----------------------------- Tuesday, Feb 4: Supernatural Psywar in the Congo Some people will do ANYTHING to win a war, and paranormal counterinsurgency is never out of the question. In the Congo, the CIA and Defense Department used propaganda to exploit the myths and irrational fears of their "target" audiences, invoking the supernatural to advance combat and counterinsurgency aims. This Dossier special report takes a look at paranormal psywar in the heart of Africa. ----------------------------- Wednesday, Feb 5: Alien Autopsy Cameraman Update First we showed you what he looked like, now find out what he said. A videotaped interview of the supposed "alien autopsy" cameraman has surfaced, re-igniting the controversy over the best-known hoax in recent memory. This update includes excerpts of the interview, hitherto broadcast only in Japan. Can the alleged cameraman patch up the holes in Ray Santilli's story, or is this just another scam? ----------------------------- Thursday, Feb 6: The "Hazards" of "X-Files Fiction" Okay, folks, stop watching the X-Files, and for crying out loud, stop visiting ParaScope! Can't you see you're rotting your heads?! You need to learn about REAL science! So says an Oxford professor, who claims the paranormal infestation of pop culture is impairing people's ability to learn the "truth". Find out why you're all being mentally impaired by the paranormal, and listen to what Chris Carter had to say in defense of his show at a recent CSICOP conference. ----------------------------- Friday, Feb 7: Connecting the Dots With Maxine Waters Maxine Waters is mad as hell, and she's not going to take it any more! As the Congressional representative for much of the South Central region of Los Angeles, Maxine Waters has a history of tackling controversial issues. But now, she finds herself smack in the middle of a conspiracy stretching back to the Reagan administration and beyond. Waters is calling for greater investigation and accountability regarding the CIA's role in the spread of crack through Los Angeles, and has vowed to keep "connecting the dots" with her own investigation. Catch up with the latest details of what she's found out in this ParaScope exclusive! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Join the Revolution Can you smell it? It's the scent of fear! The corporations, power-brokers and media moguls are running scared as the populist masses take their case to the Net in a digital revolution that is changing the planet. The propaganda war is already underway, and ParaScope is fighting for you! Join the crusade. --------------- Web Wizard/Java Jockey Wanted Can you program Perl like a hyperactive squirrel? Does working with Ticl seldom leave you in a pickle? Do find CGI as easy as pie? When it comes to flowing programming code, does your java run like molten lava? If you answered yes to these questions, then we want you to help us make our web-site slick, cool, easy-to-use, state of the art, and a hell of a lot of fun. Send us your name and a little information about yourself so we can give your life meaning by making you part of the ParaScope team. (Your application need not rhyme!) Send your web programming qualifications and personal data to parascope@aol.com with "web help" in the subject line. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Emory U. President Wants Posts re: Courtney From: ParadigmRG@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:11:02 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 10:50:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Emory U. President Wants Posts re: Courtney In a message dated 97-01-31 17:34:30 EST, you write: >> Stephen G. Bassett said; >> > >Matters of tenure, academic freedom and the recent episode at > > Harvard regarding Dr. John Mack come to mind. > > > What faked, false "evidence" did Mack share with > Art Bell, then call him up and practically 'threaten' > to try to keep him from releasing said "evidence" > from the public eye? > > None? Correct. I rest your case. > > ~Pat~ ____________ If you are a committed skeptic, or perhaps a debunker, it is understandable why you would have no empathy for Dr. Browns current dilemma and nothing need be said. However, if you are someone open-mindedly following the unfolding evidence and events and are intently or loosely a member of the community some call UFOlogy - this can be said. It is troubling that so many who pursue this matter and yearn for the benefit of the doubt from and to be taken seriously by the mainstream academic and scientific world, are so willing to withhold these same gifts from others within their own community. What Dr. Brown has or has not done, what is or is not a hoax, what realtionship this does or does not have to the rest of his team's work, remains to be ascertained. Let those of us who pursue these issues give the others who pursue these issues the same fundamental considerations of fairness, proof and discovery as the President of Emory University has given Dr. Brown. Case open and pending. Stephen G. Bassett SGBConsult
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 BWW Media Alert 970131 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:23:51 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 10:52:20 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970131 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) January 31, 1997 Just a reminder: STRANGE UNIVERSE is doing an OPUS** piece tonight (Friday, January 31), and I'll probably be on it. If you want a list of stations, let me know. Otherwise, it's a pretty slow week, actually. By the way, thanks for putting up with my test messages. I think I've got the updating worked out now, so it should just go to the right people. I got some pretty funny responses to my tests...maybe I should just do that instead of this. It would be a heck of a lot easier! ;) Sorry if this is disjointed: been a heck of a week! FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see the excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http:\\www\cninews.com. The SCI-FI CHANNEL is running OFFICIAL DENIAL on Monday at 5pm and 9pm Pacific (all times are Pacific here unless otherwise noted). If it's the one of which I'm thinking (no dangling prepositions here), it starts out pretty well. Has Dirk Benedict as a bad guy, and I think it's Parker Stevenson in the lead. If I'm wrong, somebody will correct me. Don't have time to do all the research this week, having been on radio three times...not that I'm complaining :). Also, the STINGRAY "super-marionation" puppet submarine encounters the Loch Ness Monster on Thursday at 4:30 am. CONFERENCES, LECTURES, ETC. Here's a fascinating one. Stephen Greer, MD, who runs CSETI, which tries to initiate contact with aliens, is giving $500 a plate dinner appearances this weekend. It's a matching funds deal, supposedly: if he raises $25,000, it'll be matched. Saturday is in Marin County, Northern California: Sunday is in Southern California. Also, if you contribute $50, you'll get an audio tape. It's all kind of hush-hush. For more info, check these sources: For Northern California, contact Ralph Steiner 510-540-6143 (email Ralfnstein@aol.com) or Kay Gibson 916-626-1152; for Southern California, contact: Les Morgenstern 714-965-8180 (email Threephase@Juno.com), or Richard Hutchison 714-559-6150 (email rhh4401@ix.netcom.com0 RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE: Check out the website for stations and guest info http://www.endoftheline.com). The show runs on M-F from 5:00 to 7:00 pm Pacific. It can also be heard over the Internet, which is kind of cool, although it sounds like it's underwater (at least on my computer). If you want details of how to hear it that way, ask me. Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: --week of 1/26: Mom has a vision: a woman saves her son --week of 2/2: kitten leads person out of the way of car; angel reassures dying man PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --week of 1/27 (new episode): THE UNDEAD (zombies in the inner city?); STALKER (a horror film actress is being stalked...but is the fan alive?) --week of 2/3: no details available) Saturday, February 2 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Barbara Hand Clow, author of THE PLEIADIAN AGENDA.* 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: THE MISSING APEMEN (bigfoot, yeti, et al) Sunday, February 2 LOCAL RADIO, 1220 CHSC AM in St. Catharines, Ontario (and available via Internet), THE "X" SHOW: Rob McConnell interviews Dianne Briseboise - Priestess - Raelian Movement. They are an interesting group, believing many of the Biblical stories are based on encounters with spacecraft. Other interesting rumors about the group as well (their website: http://www.rael.com, as I recall). Check the website at www.xchonicles.com for more info (like airtime...) SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews Dr. Raymond Moody, one of the people who got the idea of Near-Death Experiences really going. Now involved with "scrying", and communicating with the dead. (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5054): no details available 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: ESP, DREAM AND DISASTERS 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5054): no details available 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: STRANGE POWERS OF ANIMALS (like how they can hear the refrigerator being opened when they are in the back yard...no, not really, more about how some dogs and cats have travelled miles across unfamiliar territory to find their owners, that sort of thing). 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5054): no details available Monday, February 3 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: crystal skulls (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (#18): PSYCHOMETRICS (getting psychic impressions from objects...gee, I'll bet that would be really fun to do with Rich Little's stuff...); UFO'S & DOLPHINS; WINCHESTER MYSTERY HOUSE Tuesday, February 4 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Nostradamus(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#19): ASTRAL PROJECTION; CRYSTAL HEARING; SCENTS OF SMELL (aromatherapy) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: ZOMBIES - THE LIVING DEAD) Wednesday, February 5 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: I've got to quote this one: "a disco taxi with laser lights" (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) BRITISH TV NOTE: FORTEAN TV on Channel 4 (it comes on before ER) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES & MIRACLES (#20): SWEET ADELAIDA - A GHOST STORY (from Mexico); SOUL JOURNEY (Amerind afterlife legends); BEATING THE ODDS (physically challenged kids doing amazing things) 7:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): no details available 11:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): no details available Thursday, February 6 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: palm reading (no, this has nothing to do with trees!) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#21): YOGA, ART & MEDICINE; SEDONA (btw, I have heard the origin of the name of this town several times, but can't verify it. A miner used to head over to this settlement to see his girfriend, Donna. When they would ask him where he was going, he would say, "To see Donna". Given the literacy of the time... Also, have you ever heard how Nome, Alaska came to be called that? Supposedly, a cartographer was drawing the map for the area. He knew there a town there, but he didn't know the name of it, so he wrote "Name" on the map, to indicate where it would go. He apparently had bad hand-writing, and "Name" became "Nome". True or not, it's a great story!) 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: an Egyptian shrine 11:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: an Egyptian shrine Friday, February 7 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE:town that wants to be the center of the world...gee, must be a hot place! (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#22): DEAD SEE SCROLLS, HUMAN HIBERNATION, CITIES OF GOLD This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Books can be ordered directly over the Internet from the STRANGE MAGAZINE website at http://www.strangemag.com. =Please= tell them Bufo sent you. This is not a paid ad, but I do get something if you order and mention me. Also, it's a great site and you'll be helping to support one of the best mags out there! And I'm not saying that just because I'm a Contributing Editor :) . ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before. Search for other documents from or mentioning: bufocalvin | ralfnstein
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Area 51 Sightings, Dec. 8-9th 1996 From: Ndunlks@aol.com (by way of Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net>) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:04:08 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 10:48:40 -0500 Subject: Area 51 Sightings, Dec. 8-9th 1996 To lists: we apologize if you already have this. ______________________________________________________________ Forwarded message: From: rwarneke@boris.dataworks.com (Randy Warneke) To: ndunlks@aol.com ('Steven Wilson 1320 Indiana') Date: 97-01-07 16:31:53 EST ***********************HOT News Flash**************************** (Unidentified Flying Objects Investigation Agency. International) You are receiving this UFOIA HOT FLASH because you have interest in UFO phenomenon. If you have not become a member of UFOIA send E-mail request to UFOIA@aol.com . Or go to our Web page on the net and fill out the on-line form : UFOIA Internationals Web Page http://www.imagic.be/~mbruyninckx/ This Web page is run by the Director of Operations for Belgium. UFOIA is a UFO investigating agency that receives and investigates current UFO reports through its Hot Line, the Internet and e-mail from around the world. UFOIA hopes to serve the public with current UFO sightings, topics, views, dates and times of upcoming meetings and events, and listings of UFO related groups. ************************************************************************** AREA 51 Sightings, Dec. 8-9th 1996 - "Ships in Mulitudes" Report by Karen Lustrup UFOIA SIT Team Number 6140 Norway AREA 51- GROOMLAKE ..following paragraph is provided by Parascope in attempt to shed some light on the Are 51 phenomena. It is written by "Condor", a Parascope operative who at this time wishes to remain anonmynous. Parascope has, however, confirmed Condor's indentity and the facts of this report and stand by it's assertions as 100% accurate.) Area 51 is a secret Air Force base secluded deep within a wide-ranging tract of restricted governmet land in the remote Nevada desert. About two hours' drive north-northwest of Las Vegas, Area 51 -- also known as Groom Lake, S-4 and Papoose lake--is shrouded in mystery. Generally believed to be the training and development zone for the military's most secret project, particulary spy planes and stealth technology, rumors of something more sinister taking place at Area 51 persist despite any compelling evidence. Widespread speculation ranges about exactly what goes on at the base. A number of people have reported strange sightings in the sky above the base, and others contend the military uses the base to study downed and captured alien craft, even aliens themselves, eventually using the alien technology in military projects. For the past seceral decades, the Air Force has officially denied the excistance of Area51, also known as the Groom Lake installation. But in a recent statement, it has admitted that something excists in the middle of the desert, but won't say what. The breif text of that statement reads as follows: "There are a variety of facillities throughout the Nellis Range Complex. We do have faciliities within the complex near the dry lake bed of Groom Lake. The facilities of the Nellis Range Complex are used for testing and training technologies, operations, and systems critical to ther effectiveness of U.S. military forces. Specific activities conducted at Nellis cannot be discussed any further than that." "Our Journey Getting there": On the night of December 8th, apprx. 10:45pm, Maria Elisa de Barros, Sergel Sanchez and myself, Karen Lustrup, entered Area 51 from Interstate 15 north out of Las Vegas. We followed 93 north through Alamo and Ash Springs, and took off at state highway 375 and went east/north towards the small town of Rachel. We turned onto the dirt road at marker 29 and followed another four miles until the road splitt into three directions and followed the middle one; another well-groomed dirt road for about another mile: Groom Lake Road..and here one could follow the road another 8 miles in to the boundary of the base. Since the boundary is neither marked or fenced ~ we were weary as to NOT cross the boarder that could have resulted in getting detained. We drove carefully, and watched for any sign that may have said we were getting close OR there. There was nothing, ~ our senses was telling us we were...close enough. Outside of the car, looking up ~ there was as Sergel had told, from his previous trip to Area 51, just three days earlier, a 'fake cloud' hanging over the area. Everywhere else on the sky was perfectly clear. This 'coud' tonight, had a shape of a circle, open in the middle. Stationary. It was not going, ...anywhere. All maps marking the lakes in the area on public maps state that these lakes are "dry". Sergel however, told about 'a' lake, very close to the base, filled with water. There's rumors that H.A.A.R.P. (weather control) is taken in use at Area 51 ~ so as to create 'fake clouds' over the base functioning as a cover for their 'shuttle training' of manmade aircraft, or testing of extraterrestrial crafts. The 'cloud' was at least evident. Another thing he breifed me about was a new device called G-22's. These are lazarbeams with micro micronphones, ~ beams hit the car and can then tap into whatever is being said, inside. We kept an eye open for any such beams he had encountered earlier. No red lazar beams... We then saw lights coming towards us from the base area at rapid speed, and we climbed back into the car and drove out, in fear of having come too close. We had seen no signs...and felt we had at least another mile or so into the inner limits - still felt 'safer' to move back out, just in case.. We drove until the forked drive cross, and stopped again. The lights behind us ceased it's persuance. We stepped out and the first sightings were lights bouncing, and moving within the cloud formation. Distinct lights, in distinct jumping motion. We watched flickers, flashes, and sparks ~ also tremendous rapid 'streaks' of light from base to cloud. We need to remember the weather was good & clear. That this 'cloud' also hung farily 'low' over the base, apprx. 25-40 m up, and was about another 15- 20 m tall. The diameter of the clouds 'ring' could be estimated to apprx. maybe up a kilometer. For those haven't been to the area, I can mention there are mountain ranges surrounding AREA 51, though sort of pulled back, and not mentionably high. A hill between the area and Rachel going north, could close from free viewing that direction ~ yet there's a very good veiw in all directions. Sergel and I were both active seeking the sky around us. Maria Elisa was in the back seat, more withdrawn and very tired from a couple of days we had spent in Sedona & Flaggstaff. She had slept for the most on her way up, and dosed off an on continously through the whole night and entire show. Now, another set of lights came towards us, from a hillside in direction south. This came towards us in an immense speed that we couldn't quiet understand on loose dirt roads. We got back in the car ~ stepping on the peddle, making our way even further out. The feeling was intimidating... to say the least. We threw our camcorders and camra into a cooler box, and made an escape route once again, this time if possible faster than the first. Perhaps also the intention of our persecuters. Sergel was ready to get out for good at that point ~ head home. Not that I couldn't undertsand his view, ~ I certainly did, but I felt determinded to not show fear and 'give in' to the 'system' of chase & run. I had come clear across the world to experience in full and did not have easily access to re-do another trip convinently. Perhaps many that come here do get scared off and don't get the opportunity to get to see what we saw & experienced by the end of the night. We were off grounds, on a now semi-public road and they couldn't touch us even if they wanted too. They could scare us, but not take us in. That gave me the only security I needed at this point to convince that we stay on. Sergel was stepping on it, and I tried to calm him. TRANSCRIPT FROM VIDEO TAPING: S: Shit, shit.... does you see the lights? K: No. no... I don't see a thing. S: Any lazars? K: Nope, not a thing. (head turned backwards) Relax, don't drive so fast! S: Where the hell did they go? K: THERE'S NOTHING... Okay, shall we stop again? S: No, I'm going to stop down there, it's safer to stop down there...Stopping... K: Let's see...where'd that thing go ..I want to see the lights in the cloud again..where, OH, there it is..see it? ( just looking upward)... S: Yep. there it is..oh, shit - here's comes the car ot truck again! See it? PAN ON IT! I'm out of here! K: The lights blinking there in the cloud, it's .. S: Shiiitt, oh shit....Jesus.... here they come... K: Go easy...eeaasssy, not too fast... S: Oh man.... shittt. they can haul some ass... K: I know, it's ok though ....DON'T show fear... If you show fear, you've lost, they've won... go eaaasy...! S: Oh man... S: Lights gone.... where'd they go? K: I don't know... S: Man what a rush..!! OOOOO whooo! Ok, look for 'em UFO's.. K: Oh yeah, it's right there in the cloud, two of them, shining through, one in the middle one on the top of it to the right... Hope the video will pick them up.... There's two of them... (hanging out the window filming)... S: What a rush!! That was fat! I thought we were dead - he was jamming, full throddle towards us.. Oh my God... (still driving, ~ front lights are off) I hope we're going the right way... Parking the car again along the road, we climbed out to now really get piece of the action. As far as we could see in the dark, (thanking that 'cloud' being there ~ it gave some proportion as to how near we still were the area), we found out we saw just as much from here & having the luxury of feeling 'safer'. Minutes later, new flashes within the cloud ~ movements, then totally still. No lights. And 40 seconds later they started again. New 'strreaks' flashed up from the ground into the cloud. Now it starts for real: Transcript as follows from video taping. Our videos ~for some reason didn't pick up what we were seeing, even though the ships were extremely close at times, but it recorded our voices: (TO BE NOTED: The good thing about the area is that it is RESTRICTED AIR SPACE ~ meaning there is NO other aircrafts around other than belonging to area51. The only commericial flights are those planes called: "Janes", bringing supplies to and fro from Las Vegas which occurs some every other two hours. So whatever seen here, is not something else to be mistaken of. ) TRANSCRIPT FROM THE VIDEO: (Standing outside the car once again...) K: Ok there it is... On the ground.. watch it... WOW, did you see it flash? From cloud to earth? There's a light on the ground, but it's still... Ah, there's it is, it's blinking...oh my god....wow...WOW!!!! It came from the cloud!!! See that flash??? S: Yeah,... man! K: Why isn't the camra picking this up!? S: Neither does mine? S: ...They're in the cloud right there... K: Let's follow the light on the ground over there...it changed shape from round to oblong... S: I see it... gee ..Keeping one eye here, one there... there coming from everywhere. K: There's a light...there's a LIGHT... Smack in the hill...just watch it. Opps, 'turned off ~ gone!" K: There, the cloud one... S: Yeah, that's what I'm watching.. K: Oh, here's comes a car again... S: Oh, Man...!! (stressed) K: Oh, look at it...looks like front lights.... S: Want to get out of here? K: Nope. I'm staying... They can't do anything... S: Look the lights, the frontlights, they're getting smaller - it's moving backwards.... K: It IS moving backwards, ...getting smaller...but we should have seen red lights, not white... is this an optical illusion or what...? S: Man here it somes again (rapid speed forward...) I'm out of here, throw the cameras..!!! We dive into the car again, Maria Elisa wonders what morbid drive is driving us... and Sergel says it's the ships, I say it is because of the appearntly 'cover up' of the place, and also that I come from Europe, bringing AREA 51 'closer' in a sense to me ~ than for them living so close by... I need to know first hand.. I need to experience it first hand and not just read reports, and make judgements. I have to do the foot & leg work and research, and that's what research is, ~ sometimes getting close to the flame... Now we're out on the 'real' public road... Real safe, from government that is... At this point, I felt there was more to fear from them than extraterrestrials should they be there.. Marialisa doses off inside the car, blanket and all.. It was freezing out there this night... S:(sergel is stressed up, excitement, and fear) K: Relax, this is an 'ordinary road', be calm..it'll be..... ~ oh my god, what IS that...??? (this is NOT inside any cloud). . It's, oh my god...it's hovering.. S: It's going up and down... SHIT.. K: Stand still... My god..look at it.. it's...BEAUTIFUL! S & K: MARIALISA, YOU GOT TO GET OUT HERE... S: OH MA... HURRY..., CLOSE THE Car door!! K: The camera is not picking up... S: Come on camera...come on, come on... M: What? S: Look down the road (public road), TELL ME WHAT YOU SEE AND SAY WE'RE NOT NUTS.. It's no car... K: Nope, it's hovering over the road... bouncing.. it's came out of that mountain... It came down from the mountain, it went to the left then the right - and now it's here... M: I see it. ...look at it... it's not on the ground.. (Size of a Volkswagon - illuminate orange) ~ it's hovering! S Look at the contours...do you see that Marilisa..?? K: There it goes, to the left, there it goes to the right,... oooops, it shot something!, wait... K. It's playing S: It's neat! S: Down K Down S: Left... K: Left.. BOTH: Round,...round.... up... UP! K: Oh wow, see it's moving around... it's going back and forth.. S: Right there... S: Dimming down... K: dimming more... Flash bright! dimming, S: Gone.. It's gone. K: There's something over there, flashes behind the cloud...INSIDE the cloud. It's just a tiny little cloud... (not the big circle cloud) -... S: What was that? K: It was a flash of yellow light ON THE FENDER, where did it come from...? K: Ohhhh, look it, look it....ahhhh, lookit ~ it's soooo beautiful, straight up, up -straight up, up down, up down, staright up at an angle, down, left, left, left, stilll going left...Marilisa look out the WINDOW... right, right/... shoot, the cameras NOT getting it... ohh, WOWWWW, reappeared, ~ S: back/forth...look at it move... K: lights..yes...dim... BOTH:WooooOOWWW, go, go , go !!! Look at it gooooo! K: look at it, look at it, straight.. up to the left,, up to the left, ...straight up, up,.. hover, ..right, hover, hover, right... BOTH: Up, up... it's that same one, the same one playing on the road... K: Ohhhhh. woww.. S Wowww, look at it play...!!! K: Up, sometimes the lights go off, there it is, going off, on, there it is.. S: It's got as brother, right up there on the range... K: I can't believe we seeing this S: I can't believe we're doing this... Now for the following time until 2:30am we were having continual sightings. Up to six ships at a time, appeared. They seemed to promt us to move north towards Rachel, in which we did. Mile by mile. New sightings came towrads us, ~ lead us north in curiosity. All in all, we had at least 40 sightings, ~ Sergel syas it's more like 50... The final to sightings were the greatest, and by then there wa sno more video tape and also by then, we were not so excited any more. We grew accustomed to the ships in such a short minimal periode of time. After an hour and a half, we were 'used' to them... There was no 'threat' no nothing, just playful, curious encounters ~ goes to show HOW fast we humans can grow accoustomed to things. I've had sightings before in my life, but only one-at-a-time and long bewteen. This was to be spoiled rotten by them. We were heading north attempting to find a road leading to a rather 'large' ship, that appeared to have landed, we attempted to get as close as possible. Then Sergel says we've got one behind us, ~I turn and there's a beautiful 'green' ship hovering... Then another one came in to the right, ~an orange one. We sat watching, enjoying and agreed upon turning the car around and get closer to the green object, more Pleiadian shaped than the others we had seen, which more or less appeard round, oblong. We drove up to a stop sign, took off the lights and watched it. Few minutes later, there appeared to be a truck or a car coming from north ~ we saw it's lights and motion and returned to watch the green ship. After some minutes, the truck still hadn't passed us so we turn to look, and the lights are still there, but still coming closer, and we return again to the green ship, constating that the orange 'landed' one was behind us, and a other orange one over the range to now our left, still there, and looked for the truck yet another time, (wanting it to just pass and 'get out of our way' ~and WOW, - at that same moment Marialisa wakes up and shouts, "GEEZZZZZZZZZ, have you seen the one right next to us???" We starring at what we had THOUGHT was a truck coming, and this object is now sitting hovering just above the road, right there...some 20 yards away... At the bottom of it , two bright lights in motion, but connected to the wholer ship, all in orange colors and hugh, meaning the width of the road and perhaps 10 ft high or more. It vibrated and was as if it were ..alive.. there was definately a feeling of life & intelligence... for several minutes we were paralysed in joy and disbelief ~ then it suddenly 'splitt off' in nonoseconds, like it broke up in several pieces like a stone skipping on watersurface... It was....needless to say, FASCINATING! Then totally gone. We returned of view towards the green ship, still there stationary in the air some 15-20 ft up off the ground on the other side of the road, maybe 50-75 yards away. We chose to make an attempt to get closer, which we did. We drove acroos the road, in on a sort of path-road and stopped the car and went out. Here we stood for almost 45 minutes and watched. It came closer, went back, hovered here there, back forth - up down slightly any big moves, just...easy nice moves. It was easy to see there were lights under the ship circulating in white and green. On the center brim of the ship , another band of lights revolving around it, in green. There were two lights in specific that stood out on this bandd, sharper green, and these stopped sometimes in our direction and held it's position for long moments (minutes) at a time. This particular sighting was the longest one of them all, and gave us real time to 'tune in' to it, and become 'aquainted' with it's presence. It was a true sense of that this object 'knew' we were there. We were feeling so relaxed about it all, didn't seem at all strange that we were there with UFO's, and the next thing we thought was like: "..so, now what?" We were ready for whatever next step would have evolved. It was as if everything was a normal event...and nothing more happened. It was still there, moving between 20 to 50 yards away back and forth towards and from us, now, the strange thing was (we talked about this on our way home,) that EVEN though it came close and went back ~ it SEEMED to maintain the same size at all times. Now that was something I just didn't want to analysize, it was just too unlogical. That doesn't happen. I SAW it came very close, and yet - went it went back to the hill, it was still the same size... I just 'accepted' what I saw, I saw it ~ and let it go. Sergel had seen this too and served to increase the weired and extrordinary perception... We started off from there and headed home, 2:30 am, ~ feeling tired, exhausted and very, very full of impressions and with a over 2 hours drive back home, we need ed to leave. The rest of the sky seemed calm and not to be any mentionable activity, the green one was till there, and followed us a bit down the road before it - dissapeared, into another dimension maybe - it just was gone...in a nanosecond. We had after passing down the ET highway, as they call it, three dark red lights following, ~ escorting us, nearly an hour back towards Clark County, which was the last thing we saw of them... It was the most incredable night ever! For all of us. I believe that having, ~ holding a positive mind, be open to the activity, not poising any mental threats onto what's going on, is a great help if you ever want to have the best of an experience if you should enter this area. Respect the areas boundaries. Now we know that you needn't even go into the area itself, as the sky is fully open anyway - and should they accept you as they accepted us, you'll have a wonderful treat and a lifetime experience. Just bring alot of warm clothes for these desert nights, - especially winter months. CONCLUSION We don't know what the truth about Area 51 is. Of rumors from books, the net, Bob Lazar, others claiming having worked there, reporst of observations of people visiting at night, ~ we know something is going on. Through my page, I've had individuals contact me having been in hangars both in Nevada and California, claiming having seen aliens working among our military. What we saw that night, we saw. We do not know whether the ships were terrestrial or extraterrestrial piloted, but we do know for sure, the flight skills of these ships definatelty were not terrestrial. Manuvering in such manners are beyond our ways of defeating gravity. Speeds, beyond what we have accheived. All motions of ships were silent, no sounds whatsoever. The ability to materialize, dematerialize and back again was increadable. We don't know what we saw, we didn't touch it. We just have to trust the beauty of it's abilities, and been in awe of it's capabilities. We have ways to go before we finally will manage to utilze such skills and technology. Rumors go that they did set in a human piolt in one of tehse ships and sent him off on a 90 degree turn, with high G's and the man was plastered inside the ship... Why the videos didn't record in not answerable, ~ it would have been our testimony to the rest of the world, however, maybe that wasn't meant to be. We feel fortunate to have had the experiences. A short sequence was all that 'stuck', which is a sequence compared to 'nothing' of our sightings. A couple still photos, of 'something', still not very good at all ~ so having ot have to swallow the dissapointment, we're still very privilaged, Karen Lustrup Website: http://www.powertech.no/~pleiades/index.html Email: pleiades@powertech.no ************************************************************************** If you have current sightings, testimonials of your personal sightings or UFO experiences, please feel free to contact UFOIA. All stories submitted to the UFOIA are for the use of the HOT FLASH and UFOIA's newsletter and UFOIA has the right to publish them in its electronic newsletter and a any future hard copy mail-out publications. The views expressed herein reflect the individual views of our members and not necessarily the overall view of UFOIA . ************************************************************************** Search for other documents from or mentioning: ndunlks | rwarneke |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: About Professor Courtney Brown From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:01:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:08:50 -0500 Subject: Re: About Professor Courtney Brown >Subject: about Professor Courtney Brown >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 15:36:26 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Courtney Brown >Sent: 1/29/97 3:06 PM >Received: 1/29/97 3:08 PM >From: Bill Chace, Bill_Chace@learnlink.emory.edu >To: pparri@republic.net >A Statement about Professor Courtney Brown [snip] >Since error is often the companion of truth, and since truth is >always to be sought yet never to be gained, universities have >always had an intimate acquaintance with falsehood. Error si, fraud no! This has nothing to do with innocent error. A conscious and intentional fraud has been perpetrated and the source of that fraud should be sought out and exposed in order to prevent future occurrence. [Somebody] sat at a computer and intentionally 'hoaxed' those pix. What's with all the "rights of the academics" and such, this is about simple, blatant, and not so petty crime! John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html ======================================= Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | pparri |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 02:19:49 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:10:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Regarding... > Date: 29 Jan 97 10:51:00 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: BlindCopyReceiver:; > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob, >Ray (or more precisely Ray's company Orbital Media, Ltd.) owns >copyright to all images in this video. This means that anyone >who publishes any of these images, in any form, without express >consent from Ray is in violation of this copyright. No ifs, ands, >or buts about it. >> Are we to assume then that the 20-30 frames purportedly from the footage (including 'test samples') published by Fortean Times with my 'SFX, Lies, and Videotape' article [FT89], were correctly identified as not being from the footage? Rob Irving
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 MindNet Journal - Vol. 2, No. 2A From: vericomm@c2.net Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 02:47:04 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:02:52 -0500 Subject: MindNet Journal - Vol. 2, No. 2A ================================================================ MindNet Journal - Vol. 2, No. 2A * [Part 1 of 2 parts] ================================================================ V E R I C O M M sm "Quid veritas est?" ================================================================ Sender: Owner-MindNet@c2.org Precedence: bulk The views and opinions expressed below are not necessarily the views and opinions of VERICOMM or the editors, unless otherwise noted. The following is reproduced here with the express permission of the author. Permission is given to reproduce and redistribute, for noncommercial purposes only, provided this information and the copy remain intact and unaltered. Copy formatted in ASCII. Netscape mail reader format: "Options/Mail & News Preferences/Appearance" = Fixed Width Font. Editor's Note: The author of the following article, physicist Jack Sarfatti, lives in the San Francisco Bay Area. From: http://www.hia.com/pcr/si03.html ================================================================ SARFATTI'S ILLUMINATI: IN THE THICK OF IT! By Jack Sarfatti Copyright (c) Jack Sarfatti, 1992, 1995 Update from Jan. 29, 1996 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Garrison and Tom Jenkins from Gorbachev Foundation hosted a fun-filled birthday party for Nina Kucharev on this past Saturday night on the third floor of my office at 3220 Sacramento Street in San Francisco. Tom Jenkins is a former physicist who arranges much of the logistics for Jim Garrison, such as Boris Yeltsin's visit to the USA before he became President of Russia. Tom and I had an interesting conversation in which we both noted the amazing patterns of synchronicity linking physicists interested in consciousness, extra-terrestrial intelligence, remote-viewing and other fringe areas with the pivotal events that ended the Cold War. Danny Sheehan, who also visits our office, was co-founder with Garrison, of the now defunct Christic Institute, a casualty of the Iran-Contra operation. Sheehan, has had childhood "close encounter experiences" analogous to the one I reported in "The Parsifal Effect." Evidently, it might appear that Dan Sheehan, was also part of the "400" contactees mentioned to me on the phone in 1952 by the alleged "conscious computer" on the spacecraft from the future. Harvard Professor John Mack, influential in the Esalen-Soviet Exchange Program, and under fire from Harvard for his bold study of UFO abductees, is also, it might appear, part of the "400." Curiously, my writings influenced, in a sort of Forrest Gump way, forces on the opposing side to Garrison and Sheehan. Now we are all partying together like Tim Leary and Gordon Liddy appearing on the same stage in their intellectual vaudeville act. It is as if Umberto Ecco's _Foucault's Pendulum_ has passed from fiction to fact in this latest version of Balzac's Human Comedy orchestrated by John Lilly's "Cosmic Coincidence Control" from the future. This is more than the random "Butterfly Effect" of classical chaos theory. It suggests Fred Hoyle's idea that the initial quantum fluctuation amplified by classical chaos is intelligently manipulated and shaped by advanced starwaves from the future. Indeed, Tom's role with the Gorbachev-Yeltsin circles paralleled mine with the Reagan Administration via Lawry Chickering's Institute for Contemporary Studies and the second channel of influence opened by Cap Weinberger's son. Michael and Dulce Murphy came to the party and I was impressed with Michael's description to me of Dulce's recent efforts to narrow the growing rift between Russian and US foreign policy by catalyzing communication and dialogue between the future leaders of both countries. Michael is the author of _The End To Ordinary_ History which covers some events similar to those described here. As Jim Garrison accurately said, stabilizing Russia today is not as "sexy" as it was a few years ago and, as Michael Murphy pointed out "Russia still has 20,000 nuclear warheads." The influence of former KGB in the new Russian Mafia is of course a major fact to be reckoned with. Update from Sept 25, 1995 San Francisco Chronicle, pp.A, 15-17. By Edward Epstein "... Gorbachev Foundation USA has organized the 'State of the World Forum' ... a five year process of consultation that will meet annually until the year 2000 ... About 500 people are expected to attend .... these will include ... Milton Friedman, ... David Packard and Ted Turner... Jane Fonda... Jane Goodall,... Carl Sagan ... princes from Saudi Arabia ... Deepak Chopra.... Gorbachev will be joined by ... George Bush .... Margaret Thatcher ... 'Gorbachev believes we are giving birth to a new global civilization,' said Jim Garrison, executive director of the Gorbachev Foundation which occupies waterfront offices in San Francisco's Presidio. "Leaders of mainline Western religions or philosophies are mostly absent from the speaker's lineup, while unorthodox describes many on the list. These include ... Willis Harman, President of the Institute of Noetic Sciences ... he conducted experiments on the effects of psychedelic drugs on human creativity .... Jerry Mander, now an anti-technology author ...." It was the night before the first Birkbeck test of Uri Geller. Brendan was visibly nervous. He asked me to go with him to see the Soviet science fiction film _Solaris_. Brendan had mentioned that Olaf Stapeldon's science fiction story _Star Maker_, about a time traveling super-intelligence, was based upon real experiences that a high member of British Intelligence [1] had in the nineteen thirties. The big day arrived. Arthur C. Clarke [2] was there with a high official from Rolls Royce. Arthur Koestler [3] was also there along with John Hasted [4], David Bohm and a few others. These events have been described by Martin Gardner [5] and I will not discuss them here. What happened after the tests is more important. If I remember correctly, Brendan and I went with Uri to his hotel room where I met Andrija Puharich [6], Sir John Whitmore and, perhaps, Ira Einhorn [7]. I could be wrong about Einhorn [8]. I startled Uri by asking him if he could trigger a nuclear weapon by psychokinesis. I later found out from Ron Mc Rae [9] that some of our intelligence people were greatly concerned about that possibility. I may have initiated that concern because I had mentioned it several times to large groups of people at several meetings. I was back in Paris several weeks later with Sharon. Fred Wolf said: "Jack, I'm going to introduce you to a man who will change your life." Fred took me and Sharon to the swank Ritz Hotel. We waited in the lobby and a guy who looked like Richard Gere [10] in a jump suit walks in with a woman. He says: "Hi, I'm Werner Erhard." I had never heard of the guy. I said, "What do you do?" Werner replied: "I make people happy." I thought, "Why am I wasting time with this yo yo?" And, hoping to make a quick exit, said in a sassy Damon Runyon manner, "Oh yeah, I think you must be some kind of an asshole!" Werner's face became positively radiant and he cracked a Mephistophelian [11] smile, embraced me saying: "I will give you money when you come to San Francisco." I was taken aback by an unexpected offer I could not refuse. I was under contract with E.P. Dutton by then and was planning to go to Chicago to finish _Space-Time and Beyond_ at Bob Toben's place. Werner then outlined his plan for me to set up a sort of Ghost Busters team of physicists to research psychic phenomena and in his words "the physics of consciousness." Werner said that he was very interested in physics and that he wanted me and Fred Wolf to tutor him and his "trainers." We flew to New York. Sharon and I spent a few days with Uri Geller, Ira Einhorn, Bob Toben, Sir John Whitmore and Andrija Puharich at Puharich's large house in Ossining. Puharich gave me his book _URI_. I did not have time to read it but I gave it to my mother in Brooklyn a few days later. My mother was reading the book [12] when she suddenly exclaimed: "Jacky, Jacky, this is what happened to you!" "What happened to me? What are you talking about Ma?" "The computer in the flying saucer that called you on the telephone when you were a little boy. Don't you remember when you got all those phone calls?" An electric shock went through me -- I only remember one phone call. "What do you mean phone calls? I only got one call." "No you didn't! Jacky, what's the matter with you? You got three weeks of these crazy calls. You were on the phone for hours at a time walking around glassy-eyed. I got worried and grabbed the phone away from you. I said, 'Who is this? Why are you calling my son?' I heard that voice. It said it was a computer. It wanted you to come back to the telephone. I said, 'Don't you call back here again,' and hung up and that was that." Not even a super-technological conscious computer on board a flying saucer from the future can argue with an irate Jewish Mother! Bob Toben drove Sharon and me down to Philadelphia. We stayed with my literary agent Ira Einhorn and his doomed girl friend Holly Maddux [13]. Ira took us to the mainline mansion of Arthur Young. Young was the inventor of the Bell Helicopter and was a close friend of Charles Lindbergh. Young's wife was an heiress of the Forbes Steel fortune. Young financed the Institute for the Study of Consciousness in Berkeley California. He invited me to stay there. Einhorn told me he would introduce me to Stewart Brand, Michael Murphy [14] and George Leonard [15] when I got to San Francisco. He was very concerned about what he called "Soviet breakthroughs in psychotronic weapons of mind control at a distance using ELF and sound waves." He said he had support from the local telephone company and from the Bronfman [16] in Toronto to link up visionary scientists like myself. He also said he was working with Jacques Vallee [17] and Brendan O Regan on a UFO data base. Ira mentioned that he was working with Congressman Charlie Rose (D. North Carolina) of the House Select Committee on Intelligence [18]. Rose confirmed his connection to Einhorn in a telephone conversation with me. Werner was as good as his word and promptly had his EST Foundation write me an initial $5,000 check (Autumn 1974). Einhorn did his job as my literary agent and arranged a meeting at Arthur Young's Institute in Berkeley that included Michael Murphy, Hazel Henderson [19] and another physicist, Saul Paul Sirag [20], who was Barbara Honegger's [21] lover. Werner gave me free run of his organization which I found rather odd. The estoids all seemed to be glassy-eyed and very creepy [22]. One in particular, Raz Ingrasci, talked about Werner as if he were God-incarnate. One day Raz said he would jump out of a high window if Werner ordered him to. One day I noticed a table with a sign that said "Bulgarian Desk" [23]. There were a lot of pretty young women who were easily available since I was known as one of Werner's special friends -- a Prince of the Court. Werner was always very warm with me and invited me to many dinners both at Franklin House and at expensive restaurants. He never carried any money or credit cards. We were always escorted (in a Mercedes) by a security team, who also paid all the bills. A former student of physicist John Wheeler [24], Robert Fuller was head of Werner's Foundation. Fuller had been President of Oberlin College but had suffered a mid-life crisis and had fallen under Werner's influence. Fuller now heads the World Watch Institute in Washington. Fuller [25] was jealous of Werner's fondness for me and that this was a factor precipitating my falling out with Werner. I was worried about the crypto-Nazi feel of the est-org, but I had hoped that Werner would get his intellectual act together and say something of genuine interest in terms of physics and philosophy. I was not at all subservient to Werner in his presence like most of the academics that surrounded and apparently adored him. Some of them called him the "new Heidegger" [26]. Professor Irwin Corey [27] made more sense. There was a lot of talk of Werner running for President one day. Werner said he would appoint me to be head of the National Science Foundation. Werner's brother Nathan Rosenberg was in the Navy as an aide to President Carter's Secretary of Defense Harold Brown [28]. Kevin Garvey [29] told me that Werner had fifteen loyal estoids in the Carter White House. Werner was very active with the training of government people in Washington D.C. Carter [30] had created Project Scanate [31] for remote-viewing of military targets by psychics. Werner used remote-viewing in his training, and he also contributed money to SRI for that project. Sidney was a close friend of the late Bishop Pike. Werner had me meet with several Stanford and U.C. Faculty before he set up the Physics Consciousness Research Group at Esalen with me and Michael Murphy as co-directors. Michael arranged all our activities in Big Sur. Saul Paul Sirag [32] was my chief assistant. Michael arranged for Jean Lanier to supply me with money. Jean, who resembled Shirley MacLaine [33], was the widow of the late Chairman of the Board of Stone-Webster Engineering. Her current husband was an Episcopal Priest, Sidney Lanier. Sidney was a close friend of the late Bishop Pike. He was active in New York off-broadway theater. Sidney was also a close friend of Jose Ferrer, who I resemble. Jean rented a five bedroom suite for us on top of Nob Hill [34]. She was a close friend of Laurance Rockefeller who would telephone the Nob Hill flat looking for her. I attended the EST April Celebrity Training of 1975. The list of trainees included Ellie Coppola, Sterling Hayden [35], Michael Murphy, Buzz Aldrin [36], Ted Ashley [37], the late Jerry Rubin [38], Fred Wolf, Saul Paul Sirag and many others. Sterling Hayden quickly walked out calling Werner a "Nazi" as he pushed away some estoids who tried to block his passage. Michael Murphy was visibly upset and angry at his close friend Werner. I was sitting with Astronaut Buzz Aldrin, who was having a severe kidney problem. Werner got all confused when he tried to talk about the new physics. He let me explain to the group in ordinary language what he was trying to say in his hypnotic _estspeak_. The trick of est is to seduce your consciousness by subverting the English language with dominating psycho-babble. It was right out of George Orwell's 1984. The est-training did get every one high. It must have been how the SS officers felt after being indoctrinated as leaders of the Master Race. I was introduced to Ellie Coppola during a break in the training. She had just read _Space-Time and Beyond_. Ellie invited Fred Wolf and me to her home at 2800 Broadway at 2am after the training. We met her husband Francis Ford Coppola. The first thing Francis said to me was that he did not like Werner Erhard but that he would not tell his wife what to do. Francis has fine moral instincts. I was getting suspicious of Werner [39] especially after I heard the rumor that he said he changed his name from Jack Rosenberg to Werner Erhard to "give up Jewish weakness for German strength." I started to spend a lot of time at the Coppola's house. I introduced them to Uri Geller and to Einhorn's friend, French UFO scientist Jacques Vallee [40]. I think Steven Spielberg and George Lucas were there as well that time but I am not sure. Vallee became technical consultant to _Close Encounters of the Third Kind_ as a result of that introduction. Francois Trauffaut [41] played the role of Jacques Vallee in the Spielberg film. Ira Einhorn had introduced me to Vallee. Einhorn and Vallee were working together on a computer network project that anticipated the Internet. Einhorn originally introduced me to Hazel Henderson, Arthur Young, Stewart Brand and Michael Murphy. Einhorn at Esalen is described by Willian Irwin Thompson in _The Edge of History_. Congressman Charlie Rose (D. North Carolina) of the House Committee on Intelligence confirmed to me by telephone that Ira was involved in National Security operations. Ira, like O.J. Simpson, always claimed he was framed by "the KGB." It is curious that he was never found. Ira spent weeks at Esalen after he was indicted for the murder of Holly Maddux. Senator Arlen Specter was his defense attorney and one of the Bronfmans from Toronto allegedly paid his legal fees. I met Jack Nicholson [42], Michael Douglas, Milos Forman, Saul Zaentz and Hans Syberberg [43] at various parties at the Coppola's Broadway mansion and at Tomasso's Restaurant in North Beach where Francis would bake the pizza in the wood-burning oven. Francis was running CITY Magazine. Ellie had Raisa Gustaitus do an article about our Esalen Group called "Faster than the speeding photon." I first met Stephen Schwartz [44] at CITY where he was assisting Warren Hinckle [45]. I once walked into the Caffe Trieste with Francis when Steve Turner walked up to him and aggressively pushed him calling him a "dirty dog." Francis floored Turner with one punch. My meeting with Hans Syberberg at Francis's showing of _Our Hitler_ is of particular importance because it involved a man named "Putzi." I received a phone call from a man named George Koopman [46] during one of our Esalen seminars in 1976. He asked if he could come to Big Sur. I said yes. Koopman soon became a financial patron of my _Ghost Busters_ [47] at Esalen. Koopman was a close friend of Dan Akroyd [48], and my group was the inspiration for the film Ghost Busters. He provided money through military contracts with the Air Force and the U.S. Army Tank Command funnelled through his company Insgroup in Irvine, California. Koopman was addicted to cocaine and would talk freely when high. He told us that he was related to Arthur Krock, the publisher of the New York Times. He said that he had blown the whistle on U. S. Army Intelligence domestic spying to the New York Times. Koopman said that he had worked on the "kook desk" for the Defense Intelligence Agency and that they were very interested in the kind of new physics we were working on. They were especially interested in machines that could tell the future [49] and in new kinds of aircraft propulsion systems. Koopman liked to show how he could open locked doors with his burglar tools that he always carried in his brief case. He showed me a letter from the military giving him permission to have the tools. Koopman was very interested in Werner Erhard's tax structure. I took Koopman to meet Werner. Werner was in a room with a large blackboard. On the board were several references to "UFOs" and "extra-terrestrial contacts." Werner did not seem to trust Koopman. I found out through one of my girlfriends [50] that Koopman succeeded in spying on the Arica organization. Koopman, Sirag and I had heard weird stories from Jan Brewer at Esalen that Arica was started in Chile by high ranking fugitives from the Third Reich who were masters of the occult. Many of the regulars at Esalen, including some of our group like Dr. John Lilly [51] and Claudio Naranjo [52] had been in the first Arica training in Chile. Timothy Leary was released from prison. Leary became part of my group at Esalen. Leary was a close friend of Michael Murphy. George Koopman arranged for Leary and me to lecture together at the Arthur Young's Institute in Berkeley. Koopman spent a lot of money hiring a professional T.V. crew to record us. Robert Anton Wilson, Nick Herbert and Saul Paul Sirag participated in this event. Koopman became Leary's business manager and publisher. Leary's message was SMI2LE (Space Migration Intelligence Increase Life Extension) which is also the message of this book. Koopman sabotaged me at Esalen by suddenly breaking his contract and stopping the cash flow he had committed. The ostensible reason was that I had insulted the New Age seminarians at Esalen by calling them "idiots and morons," which I did.. Werner would say much worse in his trainings. Koopman was very high when he confronted me with this supposed sin. Koopman would show up at the Caffe Trieste on several occasions years later. Koopman was apparently ordered by higher ups to cut me out of the Esalen picture because I was too much of a "loose cannon" that they could not control. They replaced me with my assistant Saul Paul Sirag and with Nick Herbert who continued to run the Esalen seminars. It may be that Koopman's death in 1989 was no accident. That's just a hunch. Chipman's death around the same time as Koopman's may also not have been from natural causes. I walked into the Caffe Trieste one day in 1979. A young girl, Maiti, said she had written a poem about me. We soon started dating. She said her father was a "senior policy planner" in the government, but she did not agree with his politics and had briefly been in the Weatherman. She showed me a photograph of her Grandfather, who was a German General (Rudel) during World War Two. Her father had met her mother while on Army duty after the war. One day her father telephoned and said that he heard that the Philadelphia Incident [53] was really true. Maiti mentioned that her father had ET contacts as a child like I had. Her father was an Arabic-speaking expert in Middle-East affairs with high level contacts. He once sent me a manuscript on the Qabala and the mystical union between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. One day Maiti showed me a copy of a letter that her father, Robert Dickson Crane [54], wrote of his friend Anthony Weiner at the Hudson Institute. The letter [55] says in part: "Another individual, who may be just plain crazy but also has a slight chance, in my view of being another Einstein, is Jack Sarfatti, who is plugging his 'faster than light' quantum physics ... The reason I am interested in Sarfatti's ideas is that the full potential of negentropy in human thought can be realized only if Sarfatti is right. ...Assuming that Sarfatti is wrong ... the insights of Minsky and of your own cerebration offer about all that the state of the artificial intelligence art can handle for the next decade anyway. If Sarfatti should ever prove to be right, then our work on negentropy in human thought would have created the tools for tapping whatever potential there is in the 'new physics.'" I recently had breakfast with Maiti in the Haight-Ashbury. She said her father had recently converted to Islam and wanted to be the first US Army Islamic Chaplain. She also said that her father was a close friend of conservative Pat Buchanan. Herb Caen, in the March 4, 1996 San Francisco Chronicle, cites a wag on the GOP "First they gave us a guy who says 'Read my lips," now they give us a guy who says "Read _Mein Kampf_.'" :-) Crane's remarks are not that different from Martin Gardner's [56] published statement: "In recent years Sarfatti has been promoting an invention .... designed to transmit coded information faster than light. I know of no other physicist who thinks it will work. If it does, Sarfatti will become one of the greatest physicists of all time." I now think that the actual designs I had for faster-than-light communication devices back in 1979 would not have worked. I was remote-viewing my future design with a low signal to noise ratio. Nick Herbert also published a design that would not have worked. I think that today in 1992 I do have a design that will work that I will explain later on. Only experiment will decide. The point here is that if my weird physics turns out to be right, then it is evidence for my being a contactee of either alien extra-terrestrials or advanced humans or artificial intelligences from our future. If my physics turns out to be wrong, then I am just plain nuts [57], and you wasted your money on rubbish -- but perhaps you had fun on the way. I feel like Zorba the Greek in this matter -- if you remember the last scene of the movie you'll get my meaning. My adventures with two more women during this period are worth mentioning before moving on to the next Act. One named Crystal picked me up in the Caffe Trieste. She was a statuesque blonde in a low cut green evening dress. Crystal said she belonged to a Coven of Beautiful Witches [58], who wanted me to be their Warlock. This was not so crazy in Frisco back then. After we made love she introduced me to a real nut who called himself Damian Zarrow. He said he was from Esalen and that he was in contact with extra-terrestrials and that he was testifying before a Senate Committee. I later found out that Crystal knew another girl friend of mine from Esalen named Betty Andreason. I have since heard of a woman by that name, who claims to have been abducted by UFOs. I don't know if its the same woman. In view of the present-day Esalen-Erhard-Yeltsin-Gorbachev connections [59], the 1979 Esalen-UFO connection is significant. Even though I had split with Werner Erhard by late 1977, EST's Raz Ingrasci phoned me and asked me to meet with Jenny O Conner. Raz said that Jenny had been sent to Werner by Sir John Whitmore who had funded Andrija Puharich's collaborations with Uri Geller back in 1973. Jenny claimed to be channeling messages from "The Nine" -- the same extra-terrestrials that Puharich wrote about. In view of my own contact in 1952 I should have been more diplomatic with Jenny when she came to my apartment at 2 Whiting Place -- the apartment that Michael Murphy had given me. Jenny impressed me as total fraud, and I practically kicked her out. I was verbally very rude. Jenny and The Nine [60] was promptly installed at Esalen for quite some time overlapping with visits by the late physicist Heinz Pagels, Congressman Charlie Rose, Ira Einhorn, and high ranking Russians from Georgy Arbatov's Moscow Institute of US and Canada, which was influential during Gorbachev's watch. Soviet Officials at Esalen in late 70's and early 80's: * Valentin M. Berezhkov [61] * Yuri A. Zamoshkin [62] * Andrey A. Kokoshin [63] * Henrikas Jushkevitshus [64] * Vladimir M. Kuznetsov * Victor M. Pogostin [65] * Vlail P. Kaznacheyev * Joseph Goldin [66] This list is not complete. Vladimir Posner is an important fellow in all this according to Schwartz and Tinkerman. The fact remains, the iron post of observation that a bunch of apparently California New Age flakes into UFOs and psychic phenomena, _including myself_, had made their way into the highest levels of the American ruling class and the Soviet Union and today run the Gorbachev Foundation. Did these influential Russian policy pundits get high in the hot tubs of Esalen as has been alleged by right-wing theorists? My current lady friend, who was living near Esalen at the time, and spent a lot of time there with Richard Feynman, says that drugs were not used in the Soviet-Esalen Exchange. If they got high, it was the magic of Esalen and the meditative serenity of the incredible natural environment and spiritual stimulation that Michael Murphy has catalyzed over the years.. Was Jan Brewer telling the truth about the Fourth Reich using Arica to influence the New Age? Brewer was part of the original Esalen group of forty that went to Chile for the first Arica training with Oscar Ichazo [67]. Arica was big at Esalen at the same time that the Soviets were soaking in the hot tubs. Was I pulled out of the operation by George Koopman because in his opinion I was unpredictable and uncontrollable? Or is the truth still even stranger than even I can imagine? Was Michael Murphy a brilliant Puppet Master or merely a lucky charming "useful idiot," a Forrest Gump character like me? Was Ira Einhorn framed? Was Jean Nadal murdered? Was Francois Trauffaut murdered? Was Harold Chipman [68] murdered? Was George Koopman murdered? Is this all my Walter Mitty paranoid exaggeration? What do you think? [Continued to part 2] ---------------------------------------------------------------- MindNet Journal FTP Archive Filename: [mn202a.txt] ================================================================ To receive the MindNet Journal via email: Send message: [subscribe mindnet] to: <Majordomo@c2.org>. To unsubscribe: Send message: [unsubscribe mindnet] to: <Majordomo@c2.org>. Back issues of the MindNet Journal are available at our FTP Archive site: ftp://idiom.com/users/vericomm/mindnet/ The MindNet Journal Publication Index contains descriptions of all back issues and is located at the FTP site (filename: [mnindex#.txt]). Letters to editor, Mike Coyle: <vericomm@idiom.com>. Submission of articles for publication within the MindNet Journal on the subjects of mind control, directed-energy weapons, non-lethal weapons, ritual abuse, UFO abductions, bioelectromagnetics, hypnosis and other related topics will be accepted with the author's statement of permission to publish. The editor reserves the right to accept or reject for publication. The publisher disclaims all responsibility to return unsolicited matter. Send articles for publication to: <vericomm@idiom.com> or VERICOMM, POB 32314, Oakland, CA 94604-2314 USA. VERICOMM (sm) and its agents disclaim any and all responsibility or liability for any and all claims and/or guarantees, express or implied, and delivery of products, merchandise and/or services offered for sale by advertisers and/or authors within the MindNet Journal. The MindNet Journal mailing list is owned and maintained by VERICOMM (sm), POB 32314, Oakland, CA 94604-2314 USA. ================================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Deadline on Govt Response From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 18:35:56 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:06:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Deadline on Govt Response > Date: 28 Jan 97 14:30:30 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Deadline on Govt Response > Errol and All, > Following the logic used by CSETI in the letter they sent to a > number of US govt > officials, I have sent a short letter to President Clinton and some > other govt > officials as well. > My letter simply states that if I receive no response by my stated > deadline, > which is this Friday, it constitutes an agreement that the US > Government will > pay me the sum of $ 10,000,000 (ten million dollars US) for > "services rendered". Bob, Your attempt at arguentation against Dr. Greer's initiative to obtain tacit governmental consent for the Public Disclosure of UFO Reality international event misses the mark. Dr. Greer not only communicated with key policy-making officials on a matter of the highest importance, but he obtained confirmation that they received his communication, AND he followed up with personal visits to White House and Congressional staff, AND they provided him CONFIRMATION that there was no Administration nor Congressional opposition to his convening a Hearing or press conference with a blue-ribbon panel of astronauts, cosmonauts, admirals, and former intelligence and military officials intimately involved in a hands-on way with UFO retrievals and handling ET corpses. There is quite a difference between this governmentally-acknowledged and behind-the-scenes endorsed major public awareness operation and the patent practical prank you propose to do. As Mr. Spock might say, to equate the two "simply isn't logical". Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 MindNet Journal - Vol. 2, No. 2B From: vericomm@c2.net Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 02:48:01 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:04:45 -0500 Subject: MindNet Journal - Vol. 2, No. 2B ================================================================ MindNet Journal - Vol. 2, No. 2B * [Part 2 of 2 parts] ================================================================ V E R I C O M M sm "Quid veritas est?" ================================================================ Sender: Owner-MindNet@c2.org Precedence: bulk The views and opinions expressed below are not necessarily the views and opinions of VERICOMM or the editors, unless otherwise noted. The following is reproduced here with the express permission of the author. Permission is given to reproduce and redistribute, for noncommercial purposes only, provided this information and the copy remain intact and unaltered. Copy formatted in ASCII. Netscape mail reader format: "Options/Mail & News Preferences/Appearance" = Fixed Width Font. ================================================================ [Continued from part 1] Footnotes: [1] It is curious that the quote from I. J. Good is about such an intelligence. Good worked with Alan Turing during W.W.II on MKULTRA, which broke the Nazi war codes with the Enigma machine. A curious exchange happened between Good and myself. I wrote another paper for Psychoenergetic Systems. Good sent me a copy of his paper on super-intelligence. The two papers were remarkably similar. So similar that Good suspected me of plagiarism -- though he did not go so far as to accuse me. In fact, I had not seen Good's paper until he sent me a copy of it. I take this as evidence for a close encounter with super-intelligence lending some credibility to my 1952 phone call from the computer. [2] Author of _Childhood's End_ about the kind of super-intelligence I suggest actually exists and is in contact with us. [3] Author of the classic _Darkness at Noon_. Koestler graciously invited Sharon and I to his home for drinks with his wife. [4] John Hasted, a jolly fellow, was head of the Physics Department at Birkbeck. Birkbeck, created by J.D. Bernal, had a reputation of being very left wing and sympathetic to the Soviet Union. I never encountered this aspect directly in the physics department. Bernal wrote a very important essay, "The World, The Flesh and The Devil," in the 1930's about super-intelligence in the far future. [5] _Magic and Paraphysics in Science, Good, Bad and Bogus_, (Prometheus, 1981). Gardner was an editor for Scientific American. [6] Andrija Puharich M.D. worked for Army Intelligence in the early fifties and wrote one of the first studies on psychedelic drugs. Puharich was Geller's case officer in America with money provided by Sir John Whitmore. Ira Einhorn worked closely with Andrija Puharich as well as with Esalen's Michael Murphy and George Leonard. [7] Einhorn's biography is _The Unicorn's Secret_ by Steve Levy. Einhorn is still at large as a fugitive from justice. He may be innocent of the murder of Holly Maddux. Opening up KGB files might tell the truth. [8] I recall meeting Einhorn and Puharich in London when I stayed with Brendan O Regan at Joyce Petchek's palatial mansion which had its own olympic-sized swimming pool in the basement. Joyce was a Jewish American Princess who "channeled" an ancient Egyptian Princess. I may have angered her when it became obvious I was more interested in her erotic body than her auric body during her private seance with me. I felt like Groucho Marx in _Animal Crackers_. Joyce, Brendan and I made a pilgrimage to Paris to see Carlo Suares in the spring of 1974. [9] A reporter for Jack Anderson who wrote _MIND WARS_ (St. Martin's), which credits my help. Mc Rae spent a week with me in North Beach researching his book. [10] I was introduced to Richard Gere outside the Caffe Trieste by my old friend Marcus Demian, who helped him get started in Hollywood. [11] One time, at Franklin House (the equivalent of Hitler's Brown House), Werner joked with me "I am the Devil!" [12] Sharon was a witness to this incident. [13] Blinded by the Light, The Einhorn-Maddux Murder Case, "... Ira Einhorn was the foremost exponent and most celebrated relic of the counterculture, which _Hair_ celebrated..." -- Albert Robbins, The Village Voice, July 30, 1979; Front Page [14] Michael Murphy told me that he and his brother were the models for the brothers in John Steinbeck's _East of Eden_. Steinbeck was a close friend of Michael's grandfather who owned the coastal land that Esalen is built on. Michael gave me his apartment on 2 Whiting Street on Telegraph Hill. Michael is very charming and appears to be very naive. He was most likely a "useful idiot" of the KGB in the "psychic war raging across the continents between the Soviet Union and your country" (as Dennis Bardens described it in the Blue Boar Inn) rather than a "Puppet Master." On the other hand, Michael is well aware of the PSI WAR and describes very well in his book _The End to Ordinary History_. I had dinner with him recently at the Pelican Inn in Marin at a party celebrating Lawry Chickering's marriage to Serena Mondavi. Michael said he wanted me to return to Esalen but he apparently is not a man of his word. [15] As editor of Look in the 60's, Leonard wrote the article that launched the Haight Ashbury "Flower Children" as the advance wave of a coming "Transformation" of world consciousness. Leonard also wrote the first major article on alleged psychics in the Soviet Union. George was definitely fooled by the KGB because all of the Soviet psychic claims were transparent disinformation. It is interesting that the Soviets knew what was going to be in _Space-Time and Beyond_ before it was published. Bill Whitehead of Dutton asked me to credit some Russian with the discovery of "bio-gravitation" which, in the Soviet formulation, was a bogus idea. [16] Owners of Seagram's Liquor. [17] Vallee gives us a very important clue about the occult-Nazi connection to UFOs and Jenny and The Nine at Esalen on pp. 192 & 193 of _Messengers of Deception_: "...contactee George Adamski had prewar connections with American fascist leader William Dudley Pelly, who died in 1965, was the leader of the Silver Shirts ... Dr. Laughhead, who ... launched Dr. Andrija Puharich on the tracks of the mythic SPECTRA, is also thought to have associated with this group." SPECTRA reappears as Jenny O Conner and THE NINE brought to Esalen by Werner Erhard and Puharich's patron Sir John Whitmore. [18] a) "Rose ... advocates launching a 'Manhattan Project type' effort to develop the [psychic] weapons. 'The Soviets are up to their ass in this stuff,' he told Mc Rae, 'and we shouldn't fall behind.'" -- Paranormal Pentagon, Discover, (March 1981, p.15 ) b) "The witnesses Rose would call include CIA officials, who, Rose said, 'know this remote-viewing stuff works but who have been blocked by publicity-shy superiors.'" -- William K. Stuckey, PSI ON CAPITOL HILL, OMNI p.24 [19] I met Hazel Henderson again when we were both speakers at the San Francisco Art Institute along with Angela Davis. [20] Sirag spent the first five years of his life in a Japanese prison camp on Borneo where his parents were Missionaries. He played Mr. Spock to my Captain Kirk in the Physics Consciousness Research Group until George Koopman torpedoed it. Sirag then lived with Barbara Honegger in a flat provided by Henry Dakin. [21] Honegger worked with Jim Hickman, Michael Murphy and Brendan O Regan. Barbara told me of a strange encounter with Brendan O Regan in which trance medium Ingo Swann spoke with a cold metallic voice and said that it was a computer from a hundred years into the future. She actually was doing some interesting work in synchronicity. Barbara sued Stanford Professor Karl Pribram in an assault case and won. She went to work for Martin Anderson at the Hoover Institute and followed Anderson to Reagan's white House in 1981. I warned Lawry Chickering that Barbara was a loose cannon. Sure enough she quit the White House saying that the Reaganites were unfair to women. She has accused the Reagan team of the "October Surprise." Barbara says that Bill Casey arranged that the American hostages in Iran not be released until Reagan was elected. Stephen Schwartz says Barbara is lying. Knowing Barbara I do not think she is consciously lying, but, perhaps has been misled. She is quite idealistic, but naive. [22] In fact Phil Kaufmann's remake of _Invasion of the Body_ Snatchers set in San Francisco imitates the behavior of the hard core estoids. I would not be surprised if some of them were androids off a flying saucer. :-) [23] I also met Bulgarians doing "psychic research"visiting Henry Dakin's laboratory where Michael Murphy and Jim Hickman were doing their psychic-Soviet project. An army friend, in a position to know, told me that all the Bulgarians in America at that time were KGB agents. Stephen Schwartz of the neo-conservative Institute for Contemporary Studies, who is an expert on Soviet Communism, confirmed my friend's statement. Werner and Michael Murphy have spent lots of time in the Soviet Union before and after it fell. In fact, Werner has appeared to run back to Moscow now that the IRS indicted him for multi-million dollar tax fraud. Will Werner become a political power in the New Russia? [24] Wheeler worked with Einstein and Bohr and was Richard Feynman's thesis advisor at Princeton. Wheeler is the Merlin of Physics, and a lot of my ideas were inspired by his visionary writings. I suspect Wheeler is channeling messages from the future telepathically as are some other physicists like his former student Kip Thorne and also David Deutsch. Of course Wheeler and the others may have no idea that they may be caught in the Destiny Matrix! [25] Fuller arranged a series of expensive junkets for famous physicists as part of Werner's plan to gain respectability in his megalomaniacal drive for influence and world power. Rev. Moon does exactly the same thing. San Francisco Chronicle science reporter Charles Petit wrote on Wed. Jan 28, 1981 (p.32): "An unusual closed-door meeting of more than a dozen of the world's foremost physicists , including at least three Nobel Prize winners, has been held under the sponsorship of est-founder Werner Erhard in San Francisco..." The list of physicists included Murray Gell-Mann, Stephen Hawking, Leonard Susskind, and David Finkelstein. I had introduced Finkelstein to Werner when I brought Finkelstein to Esalen. Susskind (who is now a professor at Stanford), Jonathan Glogower and I had worked together in 1963 as students at Cornell on the problem of coherent phase in quantum mechanics. I had formulated the problem when I worked for Tech/Ops in 1963. In fact I mention my work with Susskind and Glogower in a paper I published in Il Nuovo Cimento (March, 1963). I had arranged for Glogower to get into Cornell as a graduate student through Phil Morrison even though Glogower never got a BA degree (Susskind also did not finish his BA degree). Glogower and I were friends since age eleven. He was a Westinghouse Science Finalist. I knew him when I received the UFO phone call in 1952. Glogower never did anything other than that one paper with me and Susskind. Susskind said that that paper is the only one he may be remembered for. It is extensively quoted. I went off to work at Ford Aeronutronics in California. In the meantime Susskind finished and published the work we had started together and never even gave me an acknowledgement as would have been proper but not expedient. Oddly enough, the phase paper appears in the same issue that published John Bell's paper on nonlocality, which is the key idea of the physics part of this book. Petit continues: "The meeting chairman was theoretical physicist Leonard Susskind of Stanford University ...An est spokesman, Doug Bell, said Susskind wanted word passed that 'it's not like there is anything to hide here. It's just a few fellows having a meeting. But where it's at for them is that it doesn't want or merit the kind of attention that you are going to give it.'" [26] Heidegger's passive collaboration with Hitler is well known. [27] Corey used to hang out at Enrico's Cafe where I spent a lot of time with Marshall Naify, Chairman of the Board of United Artist Theaters. Werner started est in offices above Enrico's. [28] He is now President of Cal Tech. [29] Garvey, who lives in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, near the Army War College, has collected all kinds of data on Werner and other cult figures. Garvey came to see me in North Beach years ago. He was concerned about New Age penetration of the US Army. [30] Carter met Uri Geller on a State Visit to the President of Mexico. Geller fooled Carter like he fooled me, Bohm and Hasted. An intelligence friend of mine told me that Geller was having an affair with the wife of the President of Mexico at the time. I had been contacted by an American intelligence agent for an evaluation of Geller before Carter made the trip as part of the security for the trip. [31] Former Naval Intelligence Officer and Jack Anderson reporter Ron Mc Rae told me that the Navy had been fooled by phony data on remote-viewing of Soviet submarines because someone had leaked the actual data to the phony psychics. Mc Rae seems to have omitted this story from his book _MIND WARS_. Barbara Honegger said that policy decisions on the basing of MX missiles were made by the Reagan staff under the belief that remote-viewing worked. Harold Chipman believed that it worked and told me that he had used it successfully in his business. Indeed, he introduced me to a glamorous private detective, V, as one of his best performers in remote-viewing operations. V and I became lovers. She confirmed that she had participated in experiments with Chipman. V was like the Princess in Cocteau's _Orfee_ "une espionne chargee de surveiller un homme et qui le suave en se perdant," in Cocteau's words. [32] Robert Anton Wilson, who was part of our Esalen Seminars, quotes Sirag extensively in his books. [33] Shirley MacLaine quotes me in her book _Dancing in the Light_. She got the title from Gary Zukav's _Dancing Wu Li Masters_. I always had a crush on Shirley. Shirley if you read this get in touch! I want Mel Brooks to do the screen play of my story with Gene Wilder playing me. :-) [34] 1155 Jones St. [35] Liberal movie actor. [36] NASA astronaut who was on moon trip. [37] CEO of Warner Brothers Studios. [38] Famous yippy in Chicago 1968. Rubin, recently killed by a car, became a loyal estoid on Wall Street. I worked with his girl friend, Estelle Resnick, in forming the Peace and Freedom Party in San Diego in the late sixties. [39] I was in the position of the actor in the German film _Mephisto_. You will see later how this ties in with Rashi Zarfati's relation to Godfroi de Bouillon, Margherita Sarfatti's relation to Mussolini and Putzi Sedgwick-Hanfstaengl's relation to Hitler. [40] Author of _Messengers of Deception_ about UFOs and _The Network Revolution_. It describes est influence in Silicon Valley computer firms. [41] I met a friend of Trauffaut's at Esalen, a young French playwright named Jean Reisser Nadal. He was investigating the New Age movement for French National Radio. He stayed with me in San Francisco and told me he had discovered some disturbing political connections including a plan to assassinate Nelson Rockefeller. I took him to the airport. A few months later I received an invitation to his funeral at Pere La Chaise cemetery. I had Michel Roure speak to Jean's girl friend. She said that Jean kept saying, "contact Jack Sarfatti," before he died. His death was do to a sudden onset of bone cancer. This is the way Harold Chipman also died. I am told that radioactive poisoning has been used for murder by intelligence organizations. Trauffaut is also dead. Nadal told me that he and Trauffaut were planning to write a screenplay or documentary based upon his research. I alerted a friend in American intelligence about the threat to Rockefeller and Nadal's death. Rockefeller did die soon after under odd circumstances. [42] I was told that John Updike used me as the model for Daryl Van Horne in _Witches of Eastwick_. Nicholson played this role in the movie. I had been dating Suky Sedgwick and Updike uses the name Suky in the book. Eastwick sounds like Sedgwick. Updike knows the story of the Sedgwicks and apparently knows about my work in the new physics since he alludes to it in both Eastwick and his book _Roger's Version_. If, on the other hand, Updike did not know about me and Suky then we have a remarkable meaningful coincidence suggesting a sense of humor in what John Lilly calls "Cosmic Coincidence Control." [43] Hans Syberberg has made two films, _Our Hitler and Parsifal_. Francis Coppola distributed Our Hitler in America. I watched this six hour film with Syberberg in Francis's private theater. Although I did not realize its significance then, _Our Hitler_ has Putzi Sedgwick-Hanfstaengl as a central image. I met Putzi's grandson at around the same time. [44] Stephen Schwartz was a red-diaper baby turned neoconservative. Edie Sedgwick's niece, Leila Minturn Dwight, introduced Stephen to A. Lawrence Chickering at the Caffe Trieste. Chickering's grandfather had worked with Leila's great grandfather, Henry De Forest, who had run the Southern Pacific Railroad at the turn of the century. Schwartz became a force at Chickering's Institute for Contemporary Studies. His most recent book is _A Strange Silence_ about the rise of democracy in Nicaragua. Both Schwartz and Chickering write for the San Francisco Chronicle. [45] Hinckle took me drinking several times at a policeman's bar on Kearny Street in the Barbary Coast near Coppola's building. Coppola's office is designed to look like Captain Nemo's submarine in Jules Verne's _Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea_. In some ways Francis is a genius kid who never grew up. He likes to collect all kinds of toys. He has the power to make his fantasies real. [46] "George A. Koopman Dies in Car; Technologist for Space Was 44 ... an entrepreneur in space technology who founded the American Rocket Company lived in Malibu. ...Mr. Koopman's career included being an intelligence analyst in the Vietnam War, a maker of military training films for the Government and the coordinator of spectacular stunts in the 1980 movie _The Blues Brothers_.... the activity that gained Mr. Koopman the most attention was stunt coordinator for _The Blues Brothers_, which starred John Belushi and Dan Akroyd ..." -- New York Times (OBITUARIES, Friday, July 21, 1989 p.A11) [47] A partial list of participants in the Esalen Physics-Consciousness Seminars while I was director includes: Werner Erhard, Timothy Leary, Ira Einhorn, Jacques Vallee, Fritjof Capra, Gary Zukav, Fred Wolf, Bob Toben, Jean Lanier, Michael Murphy, George Leonard, the late Richard Price, Dr. John Lilly, Dr. Stan Grof, Dr.Joan Halifax-Grof, Bob Toben, Saul Paul Sirag, Nick Herbert, David Finkelstein, Russell Targ, Henry Dakin, Robert Anton Wilson, Karl Pribram, Brian Josephson, David Finkelstein, Barbara Honegger, Jagdish Mann. [48] Comedian from Saturday Night Live and star of _Ghost Busters_. [49] a) "Interest in the military potential of ESP... has grown in recent years. Some of it stems from the search for reliable and jamming-free modes of communication. A popular wave of interest in ESP stemmed from a boom in the occult and supernatural phenomena in the late 1960's and early 1970's, a time when ESP research in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union also attracted popular attention. Some scientists in the West have feared that the mounting fascination with ESP, in league with the resurgence in the occult and mysticism, threatens science itself ... The Russians have long recognized that if ESP were an actual effect and could be harnessed, it would have great strategic potential. In 1973, stories appeared describing CIA-sponsored probing of Soviet and Chinese secret installations by individuals with high psi ability. By the mid-1970's, Stanford Research Institute appeared to be carrying the ball. Evidence of interest and research, however, does not necessarily mean serious acceptance or commitment to programs ... nations involved in disarmament talks may interject 'jokers' or 'riders' into otherwise serious and rational proposals to make sure that their opponents will not accept them. Those thus maneuvered into the role of rejectors may seem in the eyes of technically unaware publics to be foes of peace. A corollary to this is the strategy of mounting shadow programs to draw an adversary's attention -- and resources -- into a dead end, the essence of Soviet efforts in the field of 'disinformation'. It is not clear at this point if both sides are really just playing with each other, or if there is something really developing in the realm of ESP..." -- Cnth?: On the Strategic Potential of ESP by Dr. Roger A. Beaumont (SIGNAL, Jan, 1982, pp. 39-45) b) "It is generally believed that the Soviets and their allies are well in the lead in parapsychological research ... Telepathic behavior modification, which includes the ability to induce hypnotic states up to distances in excess of 1,000 kilometers, has been reported. ...The ability to mentally move objects has also been repeatedly demonstrated under scientifically controlled conditions. ...test subjects, targeted against strategic sites in both the USSR and the People's Republic of China, were able to penetrate secured areas to retrieve desired data via out-of-body travel ..." -- The New Mental Battlefield by Lt. Col. John B. Alexander, US Army (Military Review, The Professional Journal of the US Army, Dec. 1980, pp. 47-54) c) "... the Navy has 34 psychics under contract to track Soviet submarines..." d) Ch 2 of Howard Blum's _OUT THERE_ describes a Project Scanate session of remote-viewing of Soviet submarines and Mikhail Gorbachev's country dacha as late as 1985 in the office of George Keyworth, President Reagan's Science Advisor. "...this new channel is employed by focusing on specific latitudinal and longitudinal information ... the demonstration centered on the possible use of psychic powers in antisubmarine warfare." -- Paranormal Pentagon, Discover, March, 1981, p.15 [50] In 1979. [51] Lilly has written an important book called _The Scientist_ in which he describes his contacts with super-intelligences from the future while under the influence of ketamine. The kind of world Lilly describes is the world that I am arguing for in this book. Lilly was a close friend of the great physicist the late Richard Feynman. Lilly was at Esalen when high ranking Soviet officials were there. To what extent have the events leading to the fall of the Soviet state been caused by the Esalen drug experiences of Soviet leaders? Both Yeltsin and Gorbachev are closely tied to Esalen as is Werner Erhard. Even Lawry Chickering of ICS has mentioned the importance of Esalen in the neoconservative movement. This is the same Esalen that gave seminars by an alleged discarnate group of extra-terrestrials called "The Nine". Andrija Puharich writes about "The Nine" in _URI_. My ex-book agent Ira Einhorn spent six weeks at Esalen after he was indicted for the murder of Holly Maddux. Congressman Charlie Rose who believed the KGB disinformation on PSI WARS has also given seminars at Esalen -- strange goings on for sure. Esalen's Jim Garrison? was also a co-founder of the Christic Institute. How did Dr. John Mack of Harvard Medical School get involved in this? Mack was tech advisor for CBS mini series on UFO abductions. Mack is a founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility and has a Pulitzer for a book on _Lawrence of Arabia_. Mack told me that he heard that Gorbachev has had a UFO contact experience. [52] Naranjo, Fred Wolf and I were in Brasil together in 1985 as keynote speakers at the First International Congress on the Mind/Matter Interaction paid for by IBM Brasil. I met many wealthy and powerful people in Brasil including Army Generals. They all think Uri Geller has real paranormal powers and none of them doubted the reality of UFOs. A retired general showed me elaborately twisted pieces of metal that he claimed he saw bent psychokinetically by local versions of Uri Geller. He also claimed to have seen UFO landings in the Amazon jungle. [53] A Navy ship in WWII allegedly went through what Kip Thorne calls a "traversable wormhole time machine". [54] A cousin of Congressman Phil Crane (R. Ill). [55] Crane's letter to Weiner is dated November 18, 1979. [56] P. 111, hard cover edition of _SCIENCE, GOOD, BAD AND BOGUS_ (Prometheus, 1981). [57] The third alternative is that I am nuts and my physics is right. When I look at photos of myself back in the 70's and 80's, even I say: "That guy must be nuts!" [58] Still another strange encounter in the mid-80's was with M B who claimed that she was in the international arms business with her "well-connected" dad from Texarcana. [59] It is odd that Esalen sponsored Yeltsin's visit and also runs the Gorbachev Foundation since Yeltsin and Gorbachev are not on the best of terms. [60] Excerpts from "The Nine, channelled by Jenny O'Conner" at Henry Dakin's laboratory, 3118 Washington St., San Francisco, on Monday, July 30, 1979. Jim Hickman, Saul Paul Sirag, Roger Macdonald, Steve Donovan, Trever Alston, Russell Rae and others participating: Saul Paul asks Jenny "Have you ever interacted with Jacques Vallee?" Jenny says, "We were supposed to. We met Hal Puthoff..I met your friend." Dakin's transcript reads "discussion of Jack Sarfatti, and Jenny's meeting with him." The Nine then intervene speaking through Jenny "Main facilities Houston, Texas." [transcript incomplete here] Someone asks, "Any other facilities?" The Nine respond: "A total of 85." Roger Macdonald asks, "Any other extremely large, not as large as the facilities in Houston?" Michael Murphy's partner, Jim Hickman says, "There is NASA, but NASA isn't supposed to be with the military." The Nine says, "Wilmington ... Byrom, Little Hampshire [piece of transcript missing], The Mars Project, 1944, 1945, 1948." Roger Macdonald asks, "What Agency or department of the United States is the Mars Project?" The Nine, "NSS." Saul Paul says, "It could be some Navy thing." The Nine, "You called it National Security Service. They called it just the SS." Saul Paul says, "Secret Service?" Jim Hickman says, "I can believe that." Hickman asks, "You talked about Project Henry ..." The Nine, "All CIA involved." Hickman, "All?" The Nine, "Yes." Later on in transcript Hickman says, "... Solvitschg'otsk, which is north east of Moscow, where a great deal of secret military research is being done. The Nine, "This facility is highly armed and Soviet's most important work goes on there. Room B12." Jenny, like Barbarella, takes over her own mind and says, "Can I ask you about ... and hooking up with the brainwave machine?" [61] Member of Institute U.S. & Canada (IUSC) and First Secretary, Soviet Embassy, Washington. [62] Chairman, Ideology & Politics, IUSC. [63] Chairman, Internal Politics, IUSC. [64] Vice-Chairman, State Committee TV & Radio, USSR Council of Ministers. [65] [66] [67] Oddly enough, a novel called _Speed of Light_ was published in Berkeley in the late 70's by a woman. The plot was similar to the Brewer story and it involved a character resembling Werner Erhard. [68] Chipman started funding my work in 1985. He said he had secretly funded part of the SRI work in remote viewing. He also introduced me to V. He was involved with a Texas Company TLC and a man named Joe Peeple's who was indicted for selling arms to Iran in the mid-80's. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Quotes Query From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 02:20:24 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:14:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Quotes Query Regarding... > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:06:51 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: query Greg, >Can anyone here help me? >...and the other is the >Arthur C. Clarke chestnut about an advanced technology being >indistinguishable from magic. >Surely someone here knows one or the other, and can take a moment to >type them out for me! Arthur C. Clarke: 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguisable from magic' - from Profiles of the Future. Rob Irving
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: A manual for sceptic militants! From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 02:20:30 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:19:33 -0500 Subject: Re: A manual for sceptic militants! Regarding... > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:14:08 +0100 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> > Subject: A manual for sceptic militants! > Forwarded from a post in the newsgroup sci.sceptic : > We would like to produce a manual (in French to start with) so that > our people can get a training in the ABC of skepticism. > we would like to talk about how to *BE* a Skeptic... > Any other idea on what a skeptic should know ? >> To be particularly sceptical of manuals? Rob Irving
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Israeli UFO Briefs - Week One, February, '97 From: Chamish Barry <chamish@netmedia.net.il> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:22:09 +0200 (IST) Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:28:50 -0500 Subject: Israeli UFO Briefs - Week One, February, '97 Israeli Briefs- Week One, February by Barry Chamish One would think that the sad Achihod alien lizard would be put to rest after the story that appeared in Yediot Ahronot on Feb. 3. The headline read; London Scientists: The "Alien" From Achihod Not From Space." The text explains that the 20 cm "alien" was brought to Manchester by Debby Figel (sic) frozen in nitroglycerine at a temperature of -273. It was tested by a well known laboratory which was too ashamed to reveal itself. After testing one scientist explained why. "It's good the circus is over. No one has any interest in being identified with this thing. A lot of noise was made for nothing." So that should be the end of the story, right? Not so fast. The author of this piece received a phone call the same day as the newspaper obituary appeared from a representative of the Damti family of Achihod, who found the lizard. He apologised on their behalf for the greedy behaviour of the family and their agents Avishai and Figel (sic). According to him, the Yediot report was wrong and the lab did find interesting things. Would I please look at the report and balance the Yediot hatchet job? Sure, as soon as Debby Figel (sic) is out of the picture. On a more hopeful note, what appears to be a genuine encounter was widely researched and reported this week. In December, a teenager named Alex from Rishon Lezion, a major secondary UFO hotspot, was walking in a park at 11 PM when he saw a little girl of about six acting strangely. Thinking she was lost, he approached. She had albino white skin and long hair of the same colour. When he neared, "she" broke up into dozens of small lights. He thought he was hallucinating and that is all he remembers. However, a few unexplainable scars on his back remain from the incident. Finally, renowned UFO abduction researcher Derrel Sims was my house guest last week. We investigated a remarkable case In Netanya. After three days, Mr. Sims left with rocks that do tricks ie. one melts ice on the spot and neither of us could find a heat source, filmed hypnosis of an encounter with four small greys and our own personal encounter with the spirits or whatever that haunt this home. The first details will be published by Michael Hesemann in Magazin 2000 since he sponsored Mr. Sims' successful voyage. end -------------------------------------------- Sent by Barry Chamish - Israeli journalist. Phone/Fax : (972)-2-9914936 E-Mail : chamish@netmedia.net.il --------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Project 1947 - 'Ghost of the Estimate' From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 15:44:17 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:30:53 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 'Ghost of the Estimate' This is for Mike Hall, but I would like to share it with everyone. The Top Secret document "Analysis of Flying Ojbect Incidents in the United States", Study #203, 10 December 1948 by the USAF Directorate of Intelligence (DI) and the Office of Naval Intelligence is offen called "The Ghost of the Estimate" or a watered version of the ATIC Estimate of the Situation (EOTS). This misnomer is completely wrong. The two documents, if the EOTS exists at all, probably have no connection. An Estimate of the Situation is just as the name implies: what intelligence personnel think the current situation is. EOTS is a common document or section of a staff or command documents or policies. Staff intelligence is supposed to be able to give the commander and his staff an assessment of the situation at all times. Ten minutes after an EOTS is prepared it may made superceded and made useless by new information. The Directorate of USAF Intelligence is superior to ATIC. Their views take precedence. Therefore, the EOTS was not accepted. It was not accept due to the fact that the "Analysis" document was issued jointly by the USAF DI/ONI. The fact the "Analysis" was issued after the ATIC EOTS shows that the higher staff organization did not consider the conclusion of the ATIC EOTS valid. The EOTS is superceded by the "Analysis." At the time it was common for both organizations to cooperate in aviation intelligence matters and there are a number of DI/ONI joint studies. In January 1948, the Navy sent the USAF a letter which stated the Navy desired to assist in the analysis of UFOs. DI using the Navy's letter as a supporting document then directed Project Sign to make copies of all their material and sent it to ONI. No doubt this is the origin of the joint study. It would be interesting to see the notes and material that went into this study. More later. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Project 1947 - 'Ghost of the Estimate' III From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 11:05:25 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:35:11 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 'Ghost of the Estimate' III This posting should really be titled "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the United State." With the release of the Project Sign documents and other documents from HQ, USAF Intelligence many events at this time become clearer. The printed copy of the Top Secret study (Top Secret control # 2-7341) the title page reads: "Air Intelligence Report No. 100-203-79, ANALYSIS OF FLYING OBJECT INCIDENTS IN THE U. S., Air Intelligence Division Study No. 203, 10 December 1948, Directorate of Intelligence and Office of Naval Intelligence." The distriution was "C." There are lists prepared to tell the clerks where to send the documents this one used the "C" list. It is interesting to note that although this was a join Air Force-Navy document the warning statement cited Army Regulation 380-5, the security and classification regulation. The surviving document is copy 102 or 103 copies produced. The document has the following attachments a Memo for Record by Maj. Dewey Fournet, a Top Secret "loan sheet," another two Memo Routing Slip concern the same subject as in the draft, an Air Force HQ form 6, Register of Personnel Handling Top Secret Material" which records all personnel handling this document since 5 Dec 1950. Fournet's Memo reads: AFOIN-2B3 Capt Fournet/el/55894 Wrtn 5 Jun 52 MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD PROBLEM 1. To declassify Study 100-203-79, "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents" dated 10 December 1948, if practicable. FACTS AND DISCUSSION 2. In accordance with a request from Col. W. A. Adams, AFOIN-2B, to declassify Study 100-203-79 if practicable, the following information is submitted. A search through D/I files was made, but no such study was found. However, a draft study bearing the same time and date, plus the designation "D/I-ONI Study No. 203" was located. This study is classified Top Secret and is presumed to be the study in question. 3. Two copies of the latter study were distributed to ONI. 4. Subject matter will not be submitted for inclusion in the Daily Staff Digest. CONCLUSIONS 5. It is not considered advisable to declassify Study No. 203 inasmuch as it contain such speculation on the possible origin of unidentified flying objects, information on the Soviet AOB and atomic energy activity. In addition, the study contains a treatise on possible Soviet intentions in utilizing controlled aerial missiles over the U. S. ACTION RECOMMENDED 6. None; for information only. COORDINATION Col J. G. Eriksen - AFOIN-2B3 - Ext. 52466 CAPT. R. C. Bauer, USN - AFOIN-2B - Ext. 55909 Col. E. H. Porter - AFOIN-2 - Ext. 71110 The Memo was classified Confidential and declassified 5 March 1985. COMMENTS: Apparently when looking through the files Fournet came upon the draft first. Later this Memo was filed with the printed copy. Ruppelt said that both Col. Adams and Maj. Fournet were "believers." You don't find that in this official statement. The Top Secret Loan Sheet indicates that the document was due back on 8 July 1952 The first Memo Routing Slip has the following hand written message: "All extra copies of this document were ordered to be destroyed. "Cy being kept for record purposes only. Not to be disseminated without permission of AFOIN-A. "see 2-6167" It is signed by the same person as the draft the last name now looks like Buedolf. and it is dated 6 Dec 51. The second Memo Routing Slip also hand written reads: "T. S. Control Note: "All published copies of this document have been ordered destroyed. This document for frecor purpose only not to be disseminated." On the memo is there are intitials in the same hand writing as the other instruction memos. On the AF HQ Form 6, the Top Secret Register, there are 10 entries from 5 Dec 1950 to 24 Jun 1952. Except for Maj Fournet's entry all concern the administrative handling of the document. The Study has been available since 1985 and has been sold by several organizations and individuals. We are attempting to have this placed on a web site. More later. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Project 1947 - 'Ghost of the Estimate' II From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:45:03 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:33:03 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 'Ghost of the Estimate' II In the in the TOP SECRET Current Intelligence Branch of the HQ, USAF Intelligence files at Archives II, in College Park, Maryland, are two copies of "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the United States. Study No. 203. (Items are filed by their Top Secret control number. Control Number (CN) 2 6167 is a typed draft of the document. The other copy, Control Number 2-7341 (There are several other control numbers on the document, perhaps for different origanizations. However, this is the last one.) is printed. I will deal with the printed copy in a later posting. The draft (CN 2-6167) was produced in five copies which went to: USAF: Air Intelligence Requirement Division #1 and #3 USAF: Air Estimates Branch #4 Office of Naval Intelligence #2 USAF: Air Intelligence Division #5 The surviving copy is #3. It was declassified of 5 March 1985. Attached to the draft is the following hand written note: "All extra copies of this document were ordered to be destroyed. "Cy [Copy] being kept for record purposes only. Not to be disseminated without permission of AFOIN-A. "see 2-7341 /s/ "C Vaudolf [??? signature hard to read] 6 Dec 51" The note is written on a Memo Routing Slip, DD Form 95 which is commonly called a "buck slip" from the American slang "to pass the buck" ie give the problem to someone else. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Project 1947 - 416th Night Fight Squadron (NFS), From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:29:33 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:37:10 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 416th Night Fight Squadron (NFS), The following are courtesy of Jeff Lindell and were found on a visit to the National Archives. The following are Daily Operations Reports which I have summarized. All reports involve one Mosequito Night Fighter Mark XXX. The reports to do not give the pilots names. All reports are signed by CPT C. S. Miller, A. C., Adjutant. GCI Patrol = Ground Control Intercept Patrol. Ground radar will guide the aircraft to intercept possible enemy flights. Intruder = The night fighter goes out and looks from enemy aircraft or ground activity and attacks it. Mission #536, 1753[?] to 2113 hours 10 Feb 1945, GCI Patrol, Narrative: "GCI Partol of Front Lines. Vectored on one bogey which turned friendly. Observed 2 flares 30 miles norteast of Florence." Mission #557 2250 hours 16 Feb to 0130 hours 17 Feb 1945, GCI Partol, Narrative: "GCI Patrol along coast. Pilot saw flares and went to investigate. Flares were being dropped by what looked like a jet-propelled aircraft. Made chase by visual contact estimated to be somewhere under 10 miles. Chase laste 6 minutes and Pilot thinks he closed inot somewhere around 1 mile before losing. Aircraft desappeared in a hole in the overcast. Pilot indicated 3800 MPH air speed. GCI reported they clocked him at 458 MPH ground speed. No radar contact what-so-ever, airborne or otherwise. Observed about 40 white flares dropped by jet aircraft between bombline and La Spezia at altitude of 11,000." Mission # 560, 1755 to 1915 hours 17 Feb 1945 Intruder Mission Central Po Valley, Narrative: "West of Massa at 5-6000 ft., saw going West what appeared to be a red ball of fire traveling curving course. First it climbed then dove out of sight in the valley South of Massa. Did not emit spurts of flame, did not appear to be Jet A/C. No traffic observed in La Spezia - Parma Area." Mission #562, 2010 to 2310 hours 17 Feb 1945, GCI Patrol of Leghorn Area, Partolled La Spezia Area, Narrative: "(1) At 20:45 saw a blinking light in distance, apparently moving for about 45 seconds near La Spezia, 20 miles away and too far for accuate observation. "(2) At 21:30 saw reddish white light going off and on in spurts about 6 or 8 miles away, near La Spezia at 10,000 feet going NE. Chased it at 280MPH for 1 and one half minutes. It took erratic course and faded out. "(3) At 21:40 saw same type of light 10 miles South of La Spezia and it went North and turned East of La Spezia at 9000'. Faded near La Spezia. Pilot came within 5 miles of La Spezia, suspected Ack Ack trap. "(4) At 21:55, 10 miles South of La Spezia chased another and it wnet across La Spezia and pilot followed. Faded 10 or 15 miles North of La Spezia. Our aircraft at 300 MPH couldn't catch it. No ack ack at La Spezia. "(5) At 22:50, 5 miles South of Pisa, saw same light from distance of 10 miles. Chased it for 2 or 2 and one half minutes. It took north course, disappeared over mt. This light 10,000". Light described as glow that alternates between weak and bright. No contacts on AI. Apparently no jamming." Mission #564, 2000 [?] to 2305 [?] hours 20 Feb 1945, ??????, Narrative: "(2) No aircraft observed. 8 to 10 orange flares over La Spezia blinking while light at ???? [Most of form is too dark to read.] Mission #570, 2110 hours 20 Feb to 0145 hours 21 Feb 1945, Intruder mission Parma-Cramona-Piacenza Area, Narrative: "(1) Intruder Parma-Cramona-Piacenza area. "(2) At 0045 hrs. observed two large red balls of fire, altitude about 4,000 to 5,000 ft. Hovered in air about 10 minutes above Piacenza." (NOTE: There is no evidence that the Germans ever employed night fighter jet aircraft in Italy.) More later Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 {69} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 23:17:23 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:24:37 -0500 Subject: {69} part 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' January 31st, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K Part 2 Issue 69 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number and part/s that are missing. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {69} parts 1/2 [W6]****** Source: CNN Date: 14th November 1996 Business blooms for desert UFO capital of world RACHEL, Nevada (Reuter) -- Out in the desert wastelands, a small group of people believe they are close to a secret so devastating that it would, if revealed, mean the end of government and the collapse of religions around the globe. Until a few years ago, Rachel was just a small, windblown community of people living in trailers and shacks close to a top-secret U.S. Air Force base in the mountains of central Nevada. Now it is the self-proclaimed UFO (Unidentified Flying Object) capital of the world and draws hundreds of visitors from many countries every year, hoping to glimpse strange lights and objects in the night sky. Claims that the nearby U.S. base, known as Area 51, houses alien spacecraft recovered by the military have struck a chord with people who believe we are not alone in the universe and that there is a murky government conspiracy to hide the truth. As the millennium approaches, popular television series such as "The X-Files" and films like this year's blockbuster "Independence Day" about an alien invasion reflect growing interest in the theme. For Rachel, with a population of just 100 people, it means business is booming -- just as it has done for years in the gambling mecca of Las Vegas more than 100 miles to the south. Outside "The Little A-le-Inn," Rachel's only motel on its single street, signs welcome UFOs and their crews. Inside, the menu offers "Alienburgers" and the walls are covered with photos from around the world of supposed spacecraft sightings. A group of men sit at the bar drinking beer, earnestly discussing evil alien plans to deprive our planet of its atmosphere. Chuck Clark, an astronomer who has written a guide to the area, unfolds a map of the secret Air Force base, which is also known as "Dreamland" and tells tales of aircraft moving at impossible speeds between the mountains at each end of the valley. "If the authorities were completely open about it, the government would fall, the economy would collapse, religions would go crazy," he said. "Think about the implications." The stories started in earnest in 1989, when a former U.S. government physicist said he had been researching the properties of an alien spaceship at the base. Some believe it was a craft that was said to have crashed at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. The Pentagon refuses all comment on the remote, closely guarded facility. Military specialists say it has been used to test new and secret aircraft such as the Stealth bomber and that these account for most or all supposed UFO sightings. This does nothing to shake the faith of the believers, who spend their time comparing notes on the Internet and say the U.S. military has simply learned to incorporate captured alien technology into its most advanced planes. Pat Travis, 53, runs "The Little A-le-Inn" with her husband and says the motel's seven rooms are full for most of the year. They also do well from selling T-shirts, baseball caps, coffee mugs and other tourist paraphernalia. "We get people from all over but it's not just business. There are strange things going on round here and some baffling questions," she said. "The government started off lying about it and now they have to keep on lying." UFO sightings have been reported at a local ranch up the road towards the base. A man from California, who says he is an alien ambassador in human form, visits Rachel several times a year. Others come with claims of alien abduction. There are grainy photographs several years old of the hangars and buildings that make up Area 51, but guards now prevent tourists from making their way along rough tracks to the mountain ridge from where the base can be observed. Harold Singer, 34, helps run the Area 51 research center in Rachel -- a trailer filled with maps, satellite photographs and information. "It's growing more popular because of the end of the millennium," he said. "Every thousand years or so people say the world is going to end, they look for answers elsewhere." His friend Marcus Pizzuti is an earnest artist who makes model aliens for the tourists. Dressed in army fatigues and wearing a pistol, Pizzuti lives in a tiny shack with his collection of pet desert lizards, boxes of the cigars he loves to smoke and a picture of his mother on a shelf. Asked to explain why his model aliens resemble humans, even though they have larger, bald heads, he has a ready answer. "I think that we humans were made in their image, that they made us," he said. "These beings travel through the cosmos, creating new races." So far, the only craft to have landed in Rachel is an F-16 fighter that crashed near a trailer during NATO wargames a few years ago. The only hint of danger comes from cattle that occasionally wander onto the road, into the path of cars. The people here have yet to find that elusive visitor from another planet, but at least now they can make a living. The state government of Nevada wants to cash in on the UFO tourist boom as well; it has designated the road that runs past Rachel as "The Extra-Terrestrial Highway" and put up signs showing flying saucers. Experts on UFOs meet here for regular conferences and the stars of "Independence Day" visited this year as part of the huge publicity drive for the film, leaving a commemorative plaque behind. "Man, you should have seen this place before the UFO thing," Singer said. "There wasn't nothing here. Nothing at all." [W7]****** Source: CNN Date: 23rd November 1996 UFO footage stirs sensation in S. Korea SEOUL (AP) -- A local television network showed footage of a shining object floating motionless in the sky early Friday morning. The YTN pictures showed the object suspended in midair for about 10 minutes before it suddenly moved and disappeared. UFO experts in South Korea said the object could have been a spaceship judging from its movements -- motionless in the sky for several minutes, and moving in several different directions before disappearing altogether. According to South Korean Air Force officials, there were no scheduled flights at that hour. South Korea has been hit by UFO fever in recent weeks due to alleged sightings by local photographers, which have gained widespread and prominent coverage in newspapers throughout the country. [W8]****** Source: Sunday Telegraph newspaper Date: Sunday 5th January 1997 Message in the bones: we might not be alone Bigfoot & Co Robert Matthews UFOs, frogs falling out of the sky, the Beast of Exmoor - perfectly sensible people have reported seeing all these things at some time or another, but all have been rejected as utterly ridiculous by scientists. They all have something else in common: despite the protests of the scientific community, there is nothing intrinsically impossible about any of these phenomena. One might not like the idea of the Earth being visited by aliens, say, but that's a long way from proving that such visits are impossible. Happily, every so often new discoveries leave the know-it-alls scraping egg off their faces, such as the identification of "rocks from the sky" - meteorites - as genuine chunks of interplanetary matter, and the discovery of the "extinct" coelacanth swimming happily in the Indian Ocean. For years, explorers and forest workers have claimed to have seen large, human like beasts stalking the Earth's wilder places, from Oregon to the Himalayas. Yet despite first-hand accounts and even photographs by people of the eminence and integrity of Sir John Hunt and Eric Shipton, the vast majority of scientists have no truck with the idea that we share this planet with another human like species. Now those who have rejected sightings of Yeti, Bigfoot and other "mythical" hominids may soon have to apologise, following new discoveries made at a remote site in Java. According to tests on fossils found in Java, not one but three different human species co-existed on Earth around 35,000 years ago. The theory of human evolution is notoriously controversial, but few palaeo-anthropologists doubt that modern humans - homo sapiens - are descended from homo erectus, a species which emerged in Africa around 1-6 million years ago. Until now, no one has much worried about what happened to homo erectus - the general view is it just slowly evolved into homo sapiens as the millennia rolled by, finally disappearing around 300,000 years ago. But now radioactive dating tests carried obt by Carl Swisher of the Berkeley Geochronology Centre and his team are making that Darwinian disappearing act look a little too easy. The researchers have been working on samples taken from a site at the Solo River in Java, where the skulls of 12 prehistoric hominids were found in the early 1930s. Variously catalogued over the years as the remains of animals and humans, most palaeo-anthropologists now agree that they are remnants of homo erectus. To confirm this diagnosis, a number of research teams have tried to date the remains - a task made difficult by the reluctance of the Javanese authorities to allow test samples to be taken from the skulls. This has forced researchers to date samples taken from around where the skulls were found. In 1985, a Japanese team dated the surrounding volcanic rock at around 250,000 years. While such a date is entirely consistent with the homo erectus picture, it could also be utterly irrelevant, as the origin of volcanic rock has little to do with the existence of humans. Swisher-and his colleagues decided to get closer to dating the skulls themselves by tracking down animal teeth that were found alongside them. Using two independent methods, the team came up with an astonishing result: the teeth were no more than 53,000 years old, and could be a little as 27,000 years old. In other words, homo erectus survived for 250,000 years longer than anyone thought - and not only failed to "fade away", but actually co-existed with modern humans. The situation is more remarkable still, as there was a third species of hominid around 40,000 years ago: the Neanderthals. These hairy humanoids mysteriously vanished around 35,000 years ago - and not surprisingly, some have pinned the Yeti legend on the existence of die-hard Neanderthals in the Himalayas and elsewhere. If Swisher and his team's dating results - reported last month in the journal Science - stand up, homo erectus managed to cling on almost 10 times longer in some parts of the world. All those supposedly "ludicrous" sightings of hairy men by mountaineers and the like suggest that for man and his close cousins, 1997 could just be business as usual on planet Earth. [W9]****** Source: The Mail on Sunday newspaper Date: Sunday 26th January 1997 Ray gun that will zap the scrap in space >From Willima Lowther in Washington Astronauts building an international space station high above the Earth are to be protected by a massive ray gun. It is not that they fear an attack by aliens. Instead the ground based weapon will be used to zap space junk - thousands of pieces of debris - ranging from screwdrivers dropped by astronauts to small meteoroids. The junk orbits Earth at 18,000 mph and could cause irreparable damage to the space station. Any such debris seen heading towards it will be targeted by the gun, and vaporised or pushed into another orbit. The 25 million pound Sterling station is expected to have an aluminium shield strong enough to fend off flying rubbish up to a centimetre long. Ground-based radar will monitor all approaching debris over 10cm long - the smallest size that can be tracked - and the station will be moved to another orbit. Shuttles The ray gun will deal with pieces between 1 and 10cm in length. Dr George Gleghorn, chairman of Nasa's National Research Council Committee, said: "A hit would could be catastrophic. A 10cm piece of debris would probably pass right through the shields and tear a hole in the station wall." Assembly of the space station - a joint effort between Nasa and the Canadian, Russian, Japanese and European space agencies - will start in November and take five years. Sections will be shuttled out by rocket and fitted together in orbit. Six scientists will live aboard the base, conducting experiments with an eye to one day colonising Mars. It will have two 'lifeboat' shuttles to carry them back to Earth in emergencies. [W10]****** Source: The Associated Press Date: January 6, 1997 TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) -- It wasn't even close to an encounter. Thousands of Israelis crowded Tel Aviv beaches early Monday, watching for extraterrestrials whose arrival was predicted by self-proclaimed Israeli psychic Helinor Harar. As the theme music from the TV show ``The X-Files'' resounded from loudspeakers, she shouted: ``Israel will be the center for UFO landings.'' Crews set up cameras across the country in hopes of filming the visitors, who Harar predicted would arrive Sunday night. But the only object she spotted was a plane about to land at Ben-Gurion airport. Harar, who predicted Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's upset election victory, later told Israel TV she had a new date for a landing -- Feb. 14, Valentine's Day. And she ventured another prediction: "Until they fly over Hebron, there will be no agreement.'' Israel and the Palestinians are negotiating a troop pullout from the West Bank city. [W11]****** Source: Albuquerque Journal, Date: December 3, 1996 RUMORS OF ALIENS TRAIL COMET Charges that a spacecraft is headed for Earth behind the Comet Hale-Bopp have taken on a life of their own By John Fleck Journal Staff Writer An alien spacecraft is headed toward Earth, tailing Comet Hale-Bopp. NASA and the U.S.government know about it and are suppressing the telescope images that would prove it. Those charges, lurking on the Internet and talk radio since the comet was discovered in 1995, have exploded in recent weeks. The talk has been fueled by nationally syndicated late-night talk show host Art Bell and discussion groups on the Internet, where anyone who wants can weigh in. Despite debunking by scientists, the conspiracy theories have gained a momentum of their own, with the scientists who offer explanations immediately lumped in with the conspirators. The debate has grown so intense that, two weeks ago, one Internet critic called Alan Hale, the New Mexico astronomer who discovered the comet, "an Earth traitor" after Hale helped debunk one of the latest "mystery spaceship" sightings. "This whole thing is nutty," said Hale, who said he is alternately amused and aghast at the uproar surrounding the comet that bears his name. The most popular tale is that the spacecraft is either out to destroy us or save us. The government knows about it, according to the conspiracy theorists, and is keeping it from the public. Their evidence is a hodgepodge of speculation, information allegedly gathered telepathically from the aliens and astronomical data that, scientists say, have been misinterpreted out of ignorance. Neither Bell nor any of the other chief conspiracy theorists responded to Journal requests for comment. Hale-Bopp would seem an unlikely subject for an international cover-up, scientists say, simply because anyone who wants can take a look. Now 270 million miles from Earth and growing brighter, the potential comet of the century is hanging out there for anyone with a cheap telescope or even a pair of binoculars to see. Hale, who lives in the mountains outside Cloudcroft in southern New Mexico, has been observing the comet every night it's visible, and hasn't seen anything amiss. "Don't take my word for it," he says. "Go out and look at it." Since Hale and amateur star-gazer Thomas Bopp discovered the comet in July 1995, the conspiracy theorists have latched onto the comet with a vengeance. The evidence for the alien presence is hung from bits of truth. As astronomers gather more data on the comet's orbit, they have revised their calculations of its orbit. That has led to calls from conspiracy theorists that Hale-Bopp has "changed course," something no comet could do. Conspiracy theorists have also made much of a perceived paucity of publicly available images from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Hubble Space Telescope. Hubble comet pictures taken in September and October, published recently in the magazine Science News, do not seem to have reduced the vehemence of those arguments. For the record, NASA scientist Jay Bergstralh, who is heading up a portion of the space agency's comet research efforts, said he has heard of no such conspiracy. The discovery of "mysterious objects" in telescope pictures of the comet has been trumpeted by the conspiracy buffs, only to have astronomers identify them as stars in the backgrounds of the pictures. "What's upsetting is that they won't take the time to learn," said Harvard-based astronomer Daniel Green. If there was a mysterious object flying alongside the comet, said Green, amateur and professional astronomers around the world watching the comet would have seen and reported it. "That's the way science works. That's the way astronomy works. You can't hide anything," said Green, who works for the International Astronomical Union, an international clearing house for such information. The "mysterious object" pictures have nevertheless raised the conspiracy talk to a crescendo in recent weeks, led by late-night talk radio host Bell, whose syndicated show runs in Albuquerque on KOB AM (770) from midnight to 4 a.m. Last Thursday night, a guest on Bell's program claimed to have "remotely viewed" the alien spacecraft, using a sort of telepathic eyesight. Hale said the Internet has been both a curse and a blessing. Anyone with a computer and a telephone connection can "publish" information on the Internet, a worldwide computer network. That has allowed the Hale-Bopp conspiracy theories to spread quickly, but it has also given scientists an equal forum. But with Hale-Bopp getting brighter and likely to be major public spectacle next spring, Hale expects the wild talk to continue. "It's just going to get worse," he said. [W12]****** Source: New Scientist Date: October 1996 WHERE ARE ALL THE EXTRATERRESTRIALS? Ian Crawford wonders how common technological civilisations are in our Galaxy THE possible evidence for ancient life on Mars has rekindled the age-old debate about life in the Universe. Certainly, if life evolved independently on Mars, why not also on just about every suitable planet in the Galaxy? But it doesn't necessarily follow that "advanced" life, and therefore technological civilisations, are also common. Far from it. The first reason is the "absence of evidence". There are two parts to this: the failure of the SETI programmes - the search for extraterrestrial intelligence - to detect extraterrestrial radio signals, and the lack of evidence for extraterrestrial visits to Earth. The SETI argument is admittedly weak because only a small number of stars have so far been covered, and these at a limited range of radio frequencies. The second argument is stronger, and was dealt with in 1975 by Michael Hart in his seminal paper "An explanation for the absence of extraterrestrials on Earth" (Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society, vol 16, p 16). Hart pointed to the lack of evidence for alien visits to Earth. Certainly, Earth has never been "taken over" by extraterrestrials, as this would have put an end to our own evolution. There are only three plausible explanations. First, interstellar spaceflight is impossible. Secondly, cultural or political factors prevent alien civilisations from achieving interstellar travel, or otherwise persuade them to leave life on other planets alone. Thirdly, ET civilisations are rare or absent. It seems unlikely that interstellar spaceflight is impossible. Even today, we can envisage propulsion strategies which might make it possible to reach between 10 and 20 per cent of the speed of light, permitting travel between nearby stars in a few decades (see The Starflight Handbook by Eugene Mallove and Gregory Matloff, John Wiley, 1989). Any civilisation with this technology would be able to colonise every planetary system in the Galaxy in about 10 million years, which is only onethousandth of the age of the Galaxy. Thus, any attempt to reconcile the "absence of evidence" with a Galaxy teeming with technological civilisations must rely on the "sociological" explanations identified by Hart. The most important of these are: that ET civilisations destroy themselves before they can develop interstellar spaceflight; that ET civilisations have no interest in colonising the Galaxy; and that ET civilisations have strong ethical codes which prevent them from interfering with primitive life forms. The problem with all these explanations is that they appear plausible only if the number of civilisations is quite small. If the Galaxy contains thousands of technological civilisations (as SETI optimists often suppose), is it likely that they would all destroy themselves, or be content with a sedentary existence, or be super-ethical? The implausibility of such arguments appears particularly great if we consider that the only civilisation we know anything about, namely our own, has not destroyed itself and shows every sign of being expansionist. Moreover, it is not especially ethical in its treatment of other forms of life. Earth has been wide open to interference from outside for billions of years, and yet there is no evidence that this ever happened. This would seem to imply that extraterrestrial technological civilisations are either absent (as Hart argued), or at least sufficiently rare for some combination of "sociological" explanations to plausibly account for the absence of evidence. The history of biological evolution on Earth supports this conclusion. Life first appeared about 4 billion years ago, yet the Earth itself is only 45 billion years old. The fact that life arose so quickly suggests that this step is relatively easy for nature to achieve. This is consistent with current biochemical thinking, which, in the words of Nobel prize-winning biologist Christian de Duve, is coming round to the view that "life is almost bound to arise ... wherever physical conditions are similar to those that prevailed on our planet some four billion years ago" (Vital Dust, Basic Books, 1995). If life did evolve independently on Mars, this conclusion would be greatly strengthened. However, while the rapid appearance of life on Earth augurs well for the prospects of simple life in the Universe, subsequent evolutionary history leads us to expect that more "advanced" forms of life will be quite rare. This is because multicellular life did not appear on Earth until about 07 billion years ago. For more than 3 billion years Earth was inhabited solely by single-celled microorganisms. In contrast to the rapidity with which the first bacteria appeared, this may imply that the evolution of more complicated life forms is very difficult. If this was the case, the transition to multicelled animals might occur on only a tiny fraction of the millions of planets that may be inhabited by single-celled organisms. These two lines of argument lead to the same conclusion: while life may be common in the Galaxy, "advanced" multicellular life, and therefore technological civilisations, are probably extremely rare. Ian Crawford is at the department of physics and astronomy at University College London.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 {69} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 23:17:23 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:26:39 -0500 Subject: {69} part 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' January 31st, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K Part 2 Issue 69 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number and part/s that are missing. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {69} parts 1/2 [W13]****** Source: New Scientist Date: November 23, 1996. IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE? The view that life is widespread in the Milky Way is gaining ground, yet ET has so far proved elusive. Marcus Chown talks to an astronomer who thinks he knows why. Before August, it would have been easy to believe that life beyond the Earth was rare or even nonexistent. Everything changed, however, with the sensational claim that a meteorite from Mars contains fossil evidence of microorganisms. Whether or not the claim withers under intense scientific scrutiny, few doubt that primitive organisms could have evolved on ancient Mars, where titanic rivers once gushed beneath a thick, gaseous atmosphere. Finding that life may have started on two neighbouring planets in a single planetary system is remarkable enough. But add to this the recent discovery that many nearby stars are accompanied by planets, and there is the distinct possibility that our Galaxy is teeming with life. Suddenly, there are renewed worries about a long-standing puzzle: if life is widespread, why has the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, or SETI, drawn a blank? Where is everybody? One person who is convinced he has the answer is Frank Tipler of Tulane University in New Orleans. "If the Martian evidence holds up," he says, "we may have to face the fact that primitive life is common in the Universe but that the development of intelligence is vastly improbable." In fact, he believes it is so fantastically improbable that it has happened only once since the big bang. "I believe we are the very first intelligence to arise in our Galaxy," he says. This extraordinary claim is based on a straightforward comparison between the age of our Galaxy and how long it would take a civilisation capable of interstellar travel to explore and colonise it. According to Tipler, such a colonisation would be achieved most efficiently by dispatching self-reproducing probes to the stars. The concept of self-reproducing probes was developed back in the 1950s by John von Neumann, a HungarianAmerican mathematician. On arrival at a star, the von Neumann probes would use the available resources to build and launch copies of themselves. "One probe would become two, two would become four, and so on," says Tipler. "In this way, they would proliferate exponentially." Of course, you could argue that if probes like these populated the Galaxy, that would be very different from finding life. However, Tipler makes no distinction between the putative extraterrestrials and their robot emissaries. The probes would need to be highly intelligent and capable of using the material and energy resources in their environment to reproduce. In a sense, they would be life forms in their own right, flesh made machine, and the spacefaring successors of planet-based life. According to Tipler, the biggest obstacle to creating von Neumann probes is computer technology. "The probes would need to have at least human-level intelligence," he says. They would also have to be fast. But travelling at 90 per cent of the speed of light would not be beyond the capabilities of an advanced civilisation, says Tipler. Travelling at such a speed, a probe would take about five years to reach a star 4.3 light years away - the distance between the Sun and its nearest neighbour, Alpha Centauri. If the probe takes, say, 100 years to make a copy of itself, then the average speed at which all probes would spread throughout the Galaxy would be about 1/25th the speed of light. At such a speed, the exploration of the Galaxy, which is roughly 100,000 light years across, would take about 3 million years. Even travelling at the speed of current rockets, it would take only 300 million years to explore every corner of the Galaxy and maintain a base around each star. Long overdue "The time needed to explore the Galaxy is hugely less than the age of the Galaxy, which is around 10 billion years," says Tipler. "So, if extraterrestrials exist, they should be here in the Solar System today. Since they're obviously not, they don't exist." Understandably, other scientists are reluctant to accept that we are alone in the Universe. Some say Tipler is premature in claiming there are no extraterrestrials in our backyard. "It's impossible to tell," says Edward Harrison of the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. "The evidence of life may be written across the sky and we may simply not recognise it." Many others share Harrison's view that the absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. "The whole point is we don't know whether they're out there or not," says Freeman Dyson of the Institute for Advanced Studies in Princeton. Some scientists point out that extra-terrestrials could be here without ever letting on. "Say there were nanoprobes abroad in the Solar System," says Seth Shostak of the SETI Institute in Mountain View, California. "How would we ever know?" However, Tipler claims that if the Solar System had been visited the signs would be unmistakable. "There would be no Oort Cloud of comets and no asteroid belt," he says. "All the available resources would have been turned into structures." Tipler's idea is that, on arriving at a new star system, a von Neumann probe would not just make copies of itself to send to other stars, but it would also exploit all the available mineral and energy resources of the star system. In our Solar System, for instance, the comets in the Oort Cloud and the asteroids in the asteroid belt would be obvious sources of minerals, which is why Tipler believes they would be long gone if extraterrestrials had ever visited. He has no idea what kind of technological artefacts such resources would be used to create, but that's not unreasonable. After all, the Romans would have had no idea that future civilisations would turn sand into computers, or bauxite into aeroplanes. The disappearance of resources is a logical consequence of Tipler's "biological" model for interstellar colonisation, in which life's success in filling all available niches and exploiting all available resources on Earth is repeated by intelligent life in the greater arena of the Universe. Others, like Harrison, believe there is a fundamental error in Tipler's biological model of the expansion of intelligent life. "It assumes that extraterrestrials share the motivations of humans," he says. "However, life may evolve to a level beyond imagination and its motivations may be utterly incomprehensible to us." Tipler counters that he assumes only that intelligent life forms behave like all known life forms on Earth, all of which go through a dispersal phase. He says it is time astronomers admitted that intelligent life is subject to the same evolutionary laws as other life. Assuming that Tipler's argument is valid, those who oppose his contention that we are alone must explain how the Galaxy can be teeming with colonising civilisations without any ending up in our neck of the woods. One possibility, according to Shostak, is that the Solar System is too dull. "Humans, despite colonising the Earth, are not everywhere on the planet - they are concentrated in cities," says Shostak. "In the same way, extraterrestrials may be concentrated in the interesting places in the Milky Way - the Galactic centre, giant molecular clouds, giant star clusters, and so on." Even if humans are not everywhere on Earth, says Tipler, the effects of their activities are seen everywhere on Earth, and microorganisms are ubiquitous. Other possible explanations for the absence of extraterrestrials in our neighbourhood include the "self destruction hypothesis" and the "contemplation hypothesis". According to the self-destruction hypothesis, civilisations blow themselves up or otherwise commit suicide before they can travel to other stars. The contemplation hypothesis states that mature civilisations grow out of the adolescent urge to colonise, preferring instead to stay at home and explore the frontiers of art, perhaps, or contemplate the meaning of life. However, all these possibilities suffer from the same flaw. "Technological civilisations are likely to be diverse just like living organisms," says Tipler. "So, even if most self-destruct or stay at home to gaze at their navels, there will always be the exceptions. And the exceptions, by the logic of Darwinian evolution, are bound to come our way." In the long term, says Tipler, even extraterrestrials with a tendency to be conch potatoes will have to up sticks and move on. "Just as the Sun will turn into a red giant and force us to leave the Earth, the stars of alien races will eventuallv force them to go forth and colonise," he says. Yet another possible explanation for the absence of extraterrestrials is the "zoo hypothesis". According to this hypothesis, emerging civilisations such as ours are cordoned off by star-faring civilisations of the Galaxy as part of a Star Trek-like non-interference policy. But, according to Tipler, this idea also has its Achilles heel. "It's a universal truth in human society that if you have three members of a society, you will have four opinions," he says. "There will inevitably be a diversity of opinion among Galactic societies about whether we should be contacted or not." Tipler also believes it would be impossible to enforce such a non-interference policy. "It would be necessary to patrol the perimeter of the Solar System," he says. "Even light beams would have to be stopped from entering." It is hard to imagine the existence of a coherent Galaxy-wide society when it takes 100.000 years for a communications signal to cross from one side to the other. But if the extraterrestrials could communicate faster than the speed of light, then perhaps the society could enforce a non-interference policy, as pointed out last year by Ian Crawford of University College London. (Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society, vol 36, p 205). However, there remains the serious problem of maintaining an unwavering policy over millions or maybe hundreds of millions of years, when the lesson from Earth is that no society stays unchanged forever. Off limits But if the zoo hypothesis and other suggestions to explain why the Solar System has stayed resolutely off the interstellar tourist map are all undermined by the logic of diversity and exponential expansion, what about other, more fundamental reasons for the absence of extraterrestrials? One possibility, according to Shostak, is that it simply takes too much energy to propel an interstellar probe between the stars at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light. Tipler dismisses this as a weak argument. "I would remind everyone of the prominent American astronomer Simon Newcomb, who in 1904 'proved' that heavier-than-air vehicles would require too much energy to be practical," he says. Tipler believes that an advanced civilisation would find interstellar travel easy. "In fact, we've alread, launched interstellar probes - Pioneer 10 and 11," he says. "They've already passed Pluto and could reach the near est star in about 80.000 years. This has controversial implications for SETI, which involves looking for intelligent radio or optical broadcasts from nearby stars. "If extraterrestrials sent a radio signal, they would have to trust that there would be someone at the other end with the necessary equipment and patience to listen," says Tipler. "A far more efficient strategy would be to send a spaceship." Tipler says the same logic would apply if, instead of radio waves, extraterrestrials signalled with gravity waves or neutrinos, a suggestion made by Walter Simmons and his colleagues at the University of Hawaii in 1994 (Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Socrety, vol 35, p 321). "Whatever way you look at it, SETI is a waste of time," he says. Nothing, it appears, can deflect Tipler from his almost messianic conviction that we are alone in the Galaxy. And he goes further. For the irresistible logic of exponential expansion implies that if an intelligent race had arisen anywhere in creation, it would have arrived in the Solar System by now. "Not only are we the first intelligence to evolve in our Galaxy, we are the first intelligence to evolve in the whole Universe," says Tipler. "We are totally alone." If Tipler is right, it will be an end to the human race's centuries-long slide into cosmic obscurity. First, Copernicus taught us that the Earth went around the Sun and not vice versa. Then we learnt that the Sun was a very ordinary star in the Milky Way. Finally, we learnt that the Milky Way was a run-of-the-mill galaxy in a Universe containing billions of others. Now Tipler wants to put the human race firmly at the centre of creation. "We're special," he says. "If we extinguish ourselves, the Universe will remain lifeless." But other astronomers, traditionally wary of theories that depend on Earth being special, are still sceptical. "I don't buy it," says Harrison. "The view that we are alone is primitive and bereft of imagination." Assuming that we do not extinguish ourselves, Tipler sees a golden future for the human race. "We're going to be the parents of the universal biosphere," he says. For this is the ultimate end point of Tipler's mind-boggling logic. "Just as the descendants of the first cell spread and colonised the Earth," he says, "our descendants will spread and colonise the entire Universe." - Further reading: For a summary of the possible explanations for the absence of extraterrestrials in our Solar System, see the paper by Michael Hart the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, in the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society, vol 16, p.16. Tipler's ideas are developed in his recent book, The Physics of Immortality, published by Pan Books.? [W14]****** Source: Newsweek Date: December 30, 1996 Growing National Paranoia Conspiracy Mania Aliens killed JFK. The CIA started the crack epidemic. Kurt Cobain was murdered. Who comes up with this stuff? And why do so many people believe it? by Rick Marin and T. Trent Gegax Inside a beat-up white trailer home in the Nevada desert, Glenn Campbell sits leashed to his desk by a telephone headset. Faxes grind and modems screech while Campbell (no, not that Glen Campbell) runs the one-man government-watchdog station he calls the Area 51 Research Center. A giant black satellite dish out back points ominously skyward. The front yard is decorated with the tail of a crashed F-4 jet. Animal bones scattered in a macabre rock-garden formation separate the trailer from the dirt frontage road along Nevada State Route 375--a.k.a. The Extraterrestrial Highway. A sonic boom from the local air force base cleaves the heavens as Campbell hangs up with a deep military source. "We found a connection between Ron Brown's plane crash and Area 51!" he announces. "It's all linked together!" He's kidding--sort of. Campbell is a conspiracy theorist, not a conspiracy nut. A retired Boston software executive, he cashed out a couple of years ago at the age of 33 and relocated to the sun-baked hamlet of Rachel, Nev., to become the leading authority on Area 51. You know: the "secret" section of an air base that houses alien spacecraft. This is ground zero for UFOlogists convinced that the world has been controlled by aliens ever since the first flying saucer fell to Earth in 1947. "There is alien contact with the military," Campbell says, though, he admits, "I don't have proof other than what I hear from my sources at Area 51." Coincidentally, those sources commute from their homes in Vegas to the air base in a T-43 transport plane just like the one that carried Secretary Brown to his death. Conspiracy paranoia is surrounding us. A paranoid person might even say it's closing in, because these wacky theories aren't just spreading in the usual cheesy newsletters dense with type and craziness. Fomented on the Internet, mass-marketed by Hollywood ("The X-Files," "Independence Day"), conspiracism has become a kind of para-religion. Its vast flock ranges from casual believers to zealots who think O. J. Simpson was set up by the Japanese mafia and that Prince Charles is a puppet of the new world order, instructed by a computer chip planted in his royal buttocks. Wait until Pierre Salinger starts looking into that one. This great nation has always had its share of conspiracy freaks. Hell, the country was founded by Freemasons, the ultimate secret society. (Who do you think put that weird eyeball-and-pyramid symbol on the dollar bill?) But the ranks of the darkly deluded may be growing. A recent survey in George magazine indicated that three quarters of Americans believe that "the Government is involved in conspiracy." Depending on your level of venality, that statistic can be read as either mass psychosis or a marketing opportunity. This year, America Online started a "channel" called ParaScope, to attract devotees of the paranormal and the paranoid. Mel Gibson's next movie is called, simply, "Conspiracy Theory." He'll play a cabdriver who finds himself in trouble when one of his harebrained theories turns out to be true. Surprisingly, Oliver Stone is not directing. "There certainly seems to be a resurgence in sympathy toward conspiracy theory and an increasing strain of paranoia," says Kendrick Frazier, editor of The Skeptical Inquirer, a monthly devoted to debunking wacko theories. Clearly, something is heating up in the more tropical climes of the American psyche. So, herewith, a skeptical inquiry of our own. Kurt Cobain's 'Suicide.' The shotgun blast that killed the Nirvana front man and Gen X martyr was not self-inflicted, this theory goes. Cobain's widow, Courtney Love, is implicated, according to the book "Love & Death: The Story of Kurt & Courtney," by Montreal journalists Ian Halpern and Max Wallace. Private investigator Tom Grant, originally hired by Love to look into her husband's disappearance, is working hard to keep Cobain's suicide as mysterious as White House aide Vince Foster's. "The picture that was painted of this thing as a suicide was totally false," Grant says. Contrary to press reports, he claims (and says police records back him up) Cobain did not place his driver's license on top of his wallet on the floor next to him to help authorities identify the body. In fact, Grant says, a cop put the license out for the crime-scene photographer. "That information led people to think it was a suicide," Grant says. "But it was not true." More "proof." In addition to the suicide note at the scene, Grant says, Cobain left Love a Dear John letter: "We'll learn in the end that that note explains exactly what he was doing. He was retiring, leaving the music business, leaving his wife. That was a retirement note to his fans, not a suicide note." The motive? Grant's got that figured out, too. "She was after his fan base. The motivation is greed and career"--the same motivation Grant has been criticized for by the Courtney camp. Love dismisses the charges. And Seattle police spokesman Sean O'Donnell says, "I've had to respond to so many theories and conspiracy theories since the event occurred, and I've refuted them consistently. There's just no information that would indicate this is anything other than a suicide." Hemp Power Suppressed. Another Gen X favorite, and stoner perennial, since hemp (another name for cannabis) can be smoked as pot or turned into a fiber. In June actor Woody Harrelson was arrested when he planted four nonhallucinogenic, industrial hemp seeds in a Kentucky field. Such a Thoreau-like act of civil disobedience would have been unnecessary in 1938, when a Popular Mechanics cover story headlined hemp as the new billion-dollar crop. But "something went wrong between 1937 and 1942," says Allen St. Pierre, deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML). "I can't tell you that I've been able to find a conspiracy. But there was such a moneyed interest involved, it makes you wonder." NORML claims to have documents showing that as part of the war effort the government set up hemp farms in Kentucky, Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio. St. Pierre says hemp supplied superstrong twine for parachute cord and oil for war vehicles. "The U.S. forces were one big mobile hemp unit," St. Pierre says. During World War II, a "Hemp for Victory" newsreel featured fresh-faced 4-H kids sewing hemp seeds. It also made Levi's denim famously sturdy. What happened? St. Pierre blames Harry J. Anslinger, the nation's first drug czar, who he says needed a fresh target once Prohibition failed. "They made pot illegal for their own purposes," St. Pierre says, citing an Anslinger-Du Pont-Hearst triumvirate as the culprit. The Du Pont family feared cannabis could supplant many of their petrochemicals, and William Randolph Hearst needed a new moral high horse for his newspapers. Nonsense, says Bob Barker (no, not that Bob Barker) of the American Fiber Manufacturers Association. He says hemp doesn't even compete with textile and petroleum products: "It's kind of a nice, back-to-nature sort of thing to believe." Especially if you're baked. The Klan in the 'Hood. The black community is a hotbed of this kind of suspicion and mistrust, some justified, some fantastical. In October, Rep. Maxine Waters convened a town meeting in South-Central Los Angeles between her constituents and CIA Director John Deutch. A heated debate ensued over reports speculating that the CIA had spread the crack epidemic by backing Nicaraguan drug dealers whose profits went to the contras. "Black-oriented talk-radio shows are rife with conspiracy stuff," says Dr. Jewelle Taylor Gibbs, a University of California, Berkeley, professor who has written extensively on race issues. At WVON in Chicago it's conventional wisdom among listeners that AIDS is a plot to wipe out African-Americans. Keisha Chavers, an executive producer at the station, says, "The common refrain is 'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you'." Such is the conspiracist's reflex mentality. It's often a reaction against authority among groups that feel they've been politically marginalized, socially isolated or economically oppressed. Gibbs agrees: "Invariably, blacks start asking if the government is against us. Once these urban myths take hold, you can't do much to disprove them." Like the myth that the Snapple Iced Tea label depicts a slave galley, reflecting the company's solidarity with the KKK. The picture in question is actually of the Boston Tea Party. The New World Order. When Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and right-wing political extremist Lyndon LaRouche meet, they can agree on one thing: the malign, totalitarian power of the NWO and its executive arm, the Trilateral Commission. When President George Bush (a member of Yale's secret society Skull & Bones) proclaimed a new world order, he didn't tell us that "black helicopters" would be patrolling the night skies, monitoring our every move. Or that the government keeps a genetic record of every citizen in secret "DNA banks" (a hot topic in AOL's ParaScope chat rooms). Oklahoma City bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh reportedly claimed that the U.S. Army (the military arm of the NWO) had implanted a computer chip in his buttock to control him. He didn't say whether he and the Prince of Wales had experienced any chip-to-chip contact. These bizarre fantasies would seem safely ridiculous if they didn't occasionally turn out to be true. "My paranoia and mistrust of authority came of age during Watergate," says Chris Carter, creator of "The X-Files," TV's weekly conspiracy-geek bible. On "The X-Files," everything from who killed JFK to why the Buffalo Bills lose so many Super Bowls is traceable to a single master plan. "It helps when you pick up the paper every day and see how the government has lied to us," Carter adds, ticking off recent revelations about the cover-ups surrounding gulf war syndrome and President Clinton's apology for radiation experiments conducted on unwitting Americans as late as 1974. In "Journey Into Madness: The True Story of Secret CIA Mind Control and Medical Abuse" (Bantam, 1990) British journalist Gordon Thomas meticulously documents the brutal brainwashing of soldiers in the Korean War. Militia extremists who had been warning of a new world order for years felt vindicated when their president actually announced one. See! They told you so. As Glenn Campbell likes to tell people out at his trailer in the middle of nowhere, it's all linked together. He just can't quite prove it. Yet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk If you have something to say about the articles and features published in the e-zine please mail: feedback@nolimits.demon.co.uk. Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ http://www.nolimits.demon.co.uk/ For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Meet us on the IRC. Regular meetings held every Saturday night at 11pm (2300hrs) - 10pm (2200hrs) GMT. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 {69} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 23:16:57 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:22:26 -0500 Subject: {69} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' January 31st, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K Part 1 Issue 69 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ This issue comes in 3 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number and part/s that are missing. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {69} parts 1/2 Contents: Editorial --------- New UFO usernet binary group Interesting Sign Marilyn Munroe talks to Einstein Nellis Air Force Base on the Internet UK.UFO.NW www page back online Richard Branson's (Virgin Atlantic) phone patch United Kingdom News ------------------- [U1] New guidance system for planes [U2] Two out of three UFOs X-plained - UFO claims are still flying high [U3] Mystery Explosion Rocks Estate [U4] 1 million pounds for man 'abducted by aliens' [U5] An Insurance Claim! [U6] Alien Insurance Pays Off [U7] Experts baffled by UFO [U8] MoD is going to blow up a Jumbo Jet [U9] Swinging at Nellis [U10] Glos' encounters of the third kind! World News ---------- [W1] By Jupiter, the asteroids are coming [W2] Prediction of UFO landings in Israel falls flat [W3] Strange green light sparks UFO reports in Italy [W4] Mysterious flash lights up Western sky 'I've never seen anything like it' [W5] The Bright Lights of Rachel [W6] Business blooms for desert UFO capital of world [W7] UFO footage stirs sensation in S. Korea [W8] Message in the bones: we might not be alone [W9] Ray gun that will zap the scrap in space [W10] It wasn't even close to an encounter [W11] Rumours of Aliens trail Comet [W12] Where are all the extraterretrials? [W13] Is there anybody out there? [W14] Growing National Paranoia Conspiracy Mania Editorial ----------- A new usernet newsgroup has recently been created called: alt.ufo.binaries So please make use of this if you have any interesting pictures, video clips, sound clips etc etc. --- uk.ufo.nw's Dave says: While I was driving through a place called Elmdon in Birmingham today (12th Jan 97) I saw a poster stuck on a board outside The Parish Church of St. Nicholas. It was professionally printed in the same design as those we have seen for Independence Day i.e. instead of the huge Mother ship over the city with a deadly beam coming from underneath, this had a large cloud with a bright light emanating from underneath. The poster said - quote: 'The question of whether or not we are alone in the universe was answered 2000 years ago! Christmas Day - Still on release in lives everywhere.' Very cleverly done I thought. --- Something for you to think about ;-) Source: (CD version) A Brief History Of Time by Stephen Hawkins Imagine Marilyn Munroe talking to Einstein MR - Can I explain something to you? E - Certainly, what? MR - The theory of relativity. You have to imagine a man riding in a car at 30 miles per hour (mph) and a hitch hiker standing by the side of the road thumbing a lift, now the cars travelling at 30 mph and the man inside the car throws a stone at the hitch hiker at another 30 mph. So the question is if the car is going at 30 mph and the stone is going at another 30 mph infront of it, how many miles per hour is the stone going when it hits the hiker?....Answer 60 mph....Right pretty straight forward. The car is driving along at 30 mph and the driver is flashing his headlights at the hitch hiker telling him to get the hell out of the road. Does the light travel at 186,287.397 plus 30 mph?....Answer no....why? Because the speed of light is always the same....right?....Did you ever prove that hypothosis? --- As an addition to the 'Swinging at Nellis' article where an RAF detachment visit Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada - just down the road (so-to-speak) from Groom Lake / Area 51, below is the URL for Nellis Air Force Base itself. It's on the Internet for everyone to visit so why not drop in. http://www.nellis.af.mil --- The UK.UFO.NW world wide web page is now back on line, but at a new url (address). Point your browser at: http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk Amongst other things you will always find the current and previous 3 issues available for download. On the site at the moment you will find links to the following Real Audio files. I appreciate they are not UFO related, but extremely interesting non the less. Thanks to Paul Jones from EuroScanner for permission to use these links. Exciting radio monitoring as it happens, these Real Audio files, are the phone patches made by Richard Branson, at 01:50 local time, giving the sad news to the ops room that the round the world balloon attempt was close to ending in the algerian desert. Virgin Express 737 OO-VEA talking to Challenger Ops. Virgin Challenger (Richard Branson) talking to Challenger Ops. --- United Kingdom News [U1]****** Source: Times newspaper Date: 10th December 1996 New guidance system for planes By Harvey Elliot, Air Correspondent A new air navigation system designed to allow commercial airliners to fly with pinpoint accuracy anywhere in the world could, be seriously flawed, leading to potential dangers. Research carried out by the Civil Aviation Authority has revealed navigational errors in nearly 4 per cent of flights using the satellite linked technology. Twenty eight malfunctions were reported on a British Airways Boeing 747 while it was under test. Each fault lasted for an average of 81 minutes, during which time the aircraft would have travelled more than 600 miles without proper guidance had it been relying on the equipment alone. Such errors are considered unacceptable by the CAA, which is urging American safety authorities to slow down the introduction of the equipment until it is proved to be completely reliable. The equipment, part of the Future Air Navigation System (Fans), is a more complex version of the Global Positioning System (GPS) already used by yachtsmen and fishermen. It would be particularly useful in parts of Africa, where a lack of proper air traffic control has been severly criticised by international airline pilots. Airlines are gradually installing instruments capable of picking up signals from up to 25 American and Russian satellites orbiting the earth. Computers then calculate where the aircraft is to within a few feet, enabling long distance flights to be made accurately over water and parts of the world where there is no ground radar cover. But the CAA says that in nearly 35,000 tests carried out on aircraft fitted with the equipment, they recorded 759 "outages" - when the equipment was not functioning at all - with the on-board avionics. A further 487 navigational errors were not picked up by the aircraft's own computer. Under existing plans, the new system, also known as GPS, would be used in tandem with existing inertial navigation or radar-based systems by 2002 and then be the only system in use by 2010. The cost of fitting every aircraft with the equipment is likely to be at least 1.5 billion pounds Sterling plus 350 million pounds Sterling a year to maintain the satellites. Although many airlines have balked at the initial cost, they have been happy to press ahead because the new system seemed so reliable, opening up the opportunity for more aircraft to be packed into the increasingly busy air lanes and huge amounts of fuel to be saved by flying precise tracks. However the new research, which appears to indicate that both the on-board equipment is not reliable and the satellites sway out of orbit near the poles and so provide false information to the aircraft, is bound to cause alarm. Pilots are also concerned that when the system is working properly it can be too accurate. It would automatically keep each aircraft exactly on the centre line of an airway, raising fears that should two be approaching each other, there would be a high risk of a mid-air collision if either of them was at the wrong height. "Airline pilots spend hours exactly in the centre of their nine-mile wide airways, guaranteeing only 1,000-2,000 ft seperation from opposite-direction traffic," two pilots write in a letter to the magazine Flight International. "A mistake during an altitude change may cause disaster." They want computers to be offset to the right of the aircraft's track, guaranteering at least two miles separation while enabling the aircraft to remain in the airway. Work on testing the GPS equipment will continue with both the CAA and the Federal Aviation Administration in Washington in an attempt to resolve the problems, but there will also be appeals for a slow-down in the rush to install the new satellite-based system or at least to ensure that it is used in conjunction with rather than in place of existing procedures. [U2]****** uk.ufo.nw says: This report appeared in our last issue. Following it is a further report from the same news paper. Source: Evesham Journal newspaper Date: Thusday 12th December 1996 Two out of three UFOs X-plained By Robin Jenkins Two recent UFO sightings in the Vale appear to have been explained, although another remains a mystery. The Journal received reports of 'weird lights' in Harvington and Chipping Campden on the night of November 11th. Now Paul Young, a partner at Wyre Quality Cars in Waterloo Road, Bidford, says the lights in the sky came from a light show which the garage put on for about six nights last month. He said "We put the lights on top of the garage. There were 16 cylinders of light in a revolving pattern. They were very high density and must have gone between 500 and 1,000 feet into the sky. You could see them for miles. "They certinly got us a lot of attention. We had complaints from the parish council and were contacted by the police, enviromental health and planning officers - so we decided to take them down." However, a third UFO sighting remains unexplained. Yvonne and Gary Lewis said they saw a 'flying saucer' from their Bretforton home on November 14th. Phillip May, a member of a worldwide group called Global UFO Investigations, says he plans to investigate the Bretforton incident. Mr May, from Honeybourne, said: "It sounds interesting and I will be looking into it." cont.... Source: Evesham Journal newspaper Date: Thursday 2nd January 1997 UFO claims are still flying high Claims that the 'flying saucer' that was seen above Bretforton last month was in fact an airship, are being hotly disputed. Yvonne and Gary Lewis claim they saw a flying saucer from their Bretforton home on November 26th. Now, a Cleeve Prior woman (who asked not to be named) says she is certain that what the Lewises saw was an illuminated airship advertising Coca Cola. She says: "My husband and I were driving back from Stratford on that night and we saw it. It was definetly an airship." However, another Vale couple say they also saw a strange sight that night and they are convinced it was not an airship. Tim and Natasha Heath say they aw a 'bright yellow oval shape' in the sky from their home in Middle Littleton. Mr Heath said: "I've always been interested in aircraft and what I saw was definitely not an airship. "There was no engine noise and an airship would have been longer." The couple also say they had a second sighting of a UFO on December 15th. [U3]****** Source: Teletext News Date: Wednesday 8th January 1997 Mystery Explosion Rocks Estate Police remain baffled by reports of a massive explosion that rocked a Midlands housing estate. Redditch police station was inundated with calls from residents of Woodrow estate scared for their lives after they heard the "massive explosion". Callers said the bang shook their houses but the emergency services and British Gas have no idea what caused it. uk.ufo.nw says: Reported in the BBC reginal news on Tuesday 7th January it was stated that the incident occurred on Monday 6th January. It was reported as either being a sonic boom or an unknown phenomenon. The same unexplained explosive noise has been heard in the same area albeit some years before. [U4]****** Source: Skytext Date: 17th December 1996 From: rushymead@aol.com 1 million pounds for man 'abducted by aliens' An insurance firm is to pay a 22-year-old-man 1 million pounds after he proved to it he had been abducted by aliens. Joe Carpenter, from Enfield, allegedly gave the Grip company video footage and stills of the aliens and their ship. "The aleins told me not to be afraid "he said." The X-Files 'Gillian Anderson is expected to present the cheque. [U5]****** Source: BBC Radio 5 Date: 17th December 1996 From: Peter J Louis <101726.455@compuserve.com> An Insurance Claim! BBC Radio 5, today followed up on the news article of the 3 December, 1996 (forwarded below). Apparently, Joe Carpenter was successful in his insurance claim and is expected to receive a cheque for 1 million pounds. This cheque will be presented on Saturday 21 December by Julian Anderson, one of the stars of The X-Flies. Joe claims that an incident occurred near a Swindon military base. A triangular shaped craft emitted a beam which levitated him. He also claims that he saw an alien, which he was able to photograph . He indicated that he was telepathetically assured by the alien, that no harm would come to him. Joe's submission to the insurance company supposedly includes physical items of alien origin, obtained when he 'grabbed at' the alien in trying to break free. Simon Burges, an insurance broker, commenting on this claim, indicates that the insurance company seems confident in recouping their losses. [U6]****** Source: Melbourne Sunday Herald Sun Date: 22nd December 1996 From: legion@werple.net.au Alien Insurance Pays Off By DAVID WALMSEY in London IT could be the perfect case for agents Mulder and Scully. In true X-Files style, an electrician claims he was lifted from the ground and knocked unconscious by a UFO near London. He is apparently to be paid $2 million by insurers who covered him against abduction by aliens. Industry sources, however, are suggesting that the payout could, just possibly, be an out-of- this-world publicity stunt. The story starts on October 8 when Joseph Carpenter, 23, of North London, claims he was struck down by a mystery light at Swindon. The area is a "hot spot" for such phenomena, says Mr Carpenter, who runs a UFO hunting group called the Majestic Twelve. "On the evening in question, an intense beam of light, like a police helicopter, had me," he said. "The anti-gravity force within it lifted me above the ground. I passed out as I went directly into it. All this was captured on film." By an amazing stroke of luck, Mr Carpenter had paid $205 for cover against such an eventuality to a company called GRIP, run by insurance broker Simon Burgess. Mr Carpenter was able to produce "compelling evidence" of his ordeal, including camcorder footage, witnesses and DNA samples taken from what he said was a claw found at the scene. Mr Burgess said last night: "The work on the DNA sample was carried out by a research fellow at Cambridge University -- I can't give you the name. But the work proved conclusively that the sample was something that had never been seen before and which was not of this Earth." Mr. Burgess says Mr. Carpenter was expected to receive his $2 million yesterday at a London hotel from Scully herself, _X-Files_ star Gillian Anderson. The broker, described by one industry source as "an unhelpful maverick", is believed to have made a deal with a Sunday paper for exclusive coverage of the presentation. Industry insiders say he is almost certain to make a profit from Mr Carpenter's claim. One said: "If he plays his cards right, he will claw the money back by wisely selling the world rights of the video evidence to TV companies. If he co-wrote a book using the evidence, the money would also roll in." [U7]****** Source: Eastern Evening News (Norwich) Date: 21st December 1996 From: John Gilbert <john@skiesare.demon.co.uk> EXPERTS BAFFLED BY UFO Aviation experts are baffled by a fast moving, shining object seen by two policemen as it flew over North Norfolk. Air traffic controllers have no logical explanation for the luminous oblong shape which the pair tracked for ten miles. Sgt Steve King and PC Andy Coller stared in disbelief as the UFO with red, white and blue lights darted accross the sky, but they lost it when it hovered over Cromer and then sped out accross the North Sea. The policemen, stationed at Fakenham, were lef "mystified" by the object, which they followed from near Holt to the coast. The sighting is the lastest in a series in recent weeks that have not been satisfactorily explained. Just two months ago a tanker crew tracked two sets of strange coloured lights hovering in the sky off the East Anglian coast. The sightings by the tanker Conocoast near the Wash promted an invesigation by the Ministry of Defence. But UFO sleuths acused the MoD of staging an X-Files style cover up and dismissed the official explanation that the mystery lights were caused by a combination of the 200ft Boston Stump church tower and an electrical storm over the North Sea. There has still been no conclusive expanation for the so called Boston Stump UFO. Meanwhile, colleagues of the two officers were so intrigued by the craft with bright white and red lights that they contacted Norwich Airport. An air traffic department spokesman said yesterday: "They phoned up and spoke to the controller at about 6.15am on Sunday. "It certainly wasn't anything from the airport. It's reported in the book as a possible UFO sighting." Colleagues at Fakenham police station say the two officers are trating the sighting seriously PC Coller and Sgt King were not available for comment yesterday but would like to know more about the UFO sighting at 4.40am on Sunday. Anyone with information which could help explain the phenomenon can ring the police on 01692 402222 [U8]****** Source: Sunday Telegraph newspaper Date: Sunday 5th January 1997 by Chris Oliver Wilson MoD is going to blow up a Jumbo Jet Planespotters give up Boeing to help beat terrorist bombers A BOEING 747 bought by aircraft enthusiasts will be blown up by air safety scientists in an attempt to find out bow to build a bomb-proof passenger jet. The former Air France jumbo jet was bought for the aviation museum at Bruntingthorpe Aerodrome, in Leicestershire, as an attraction for visitors. For 18 months it was lovingly. repaired and maintained by the unpaid enthusiasts who also keep a fleet of 25 classic passenger and military aircraft in mint condition. But now scientists from an MoD agency and American air accident experts bave bought the 747 and will detonate up to eight simultaneous explosions inside the jet in an exercise designed to fight terrorism. The tests could lead to new claddings for the inside of luggage holds and prevent passenger jets from disintegrating during explosions as Boeing 747s did over Lockerbie in 1988, claiming 270 lives, and possibly above the Atlantic last July when TWA Flight 8OO blew up near New York, killing all 230 passengers and crew. David Walton, who manages the Bruntingthorpe airfield, said: "After we bought the jet, we were approached by Ministry of Defence agents who were desperate to get hold of a Boeing 747 they could blow up. "They will perform controlled exp1osions to try to find out how different types of lining inside the aircraft can limit the damage caused by small amounts of explosives." He said that American Federal Aviation Administration researchers would detonate their own explosions as part of the project. Investigators from the Defence Evaluation Research Agency (DERA), and FAA have already started work on preparing the jet to be blown up. A spokesman for DERA said that although it is an agency of the MoD, this research project had been commissioned by the Civil Aviation Authority to benefit commercial aircraft and their passengers and crew. "We want to show that with new types of lining, the luggage hold could withstand an explosion," he said. The CAA hopes the experiment will lead to more bomb resistant designs for new passenger jets and the strengthening of the hold structures of existing fleets. Neville Martin, a 69-year old aviation enthusiast who leads the maintenance of Bruntingthorpe's fleet of planes, said last week: "Nothing like this has happened before. "MoD and American air accident experts have stripped the 747 of its seats, carpets and panelling in preparation for the test explosions which will begin in the spring." He said the Air France jet, which flew into the airfield two years ago, had, until three months ago, served as a popular attraction for visitors. "Now it is parked on one of the concrete storage areas, just off our two-mile-long runway," he said. "It is very exciting. We have given the MoD any help they wanted and will be watching from a safe distance when the explosions happen." [U9]****** Source: AirForces Monthly Date: February 1997 Swinging at Nellis Alan Warnes visits the RAF detachment at Nellis for a Red Flag exercise For what is now a regular event, the RAF deployed 17 Tornados to Nellis AFB during October to participate in Bed Flag 1/97. Initial manning of the Tornado F3 deployment was provided by 11 Squadron whose eight jets departed RAF Leeming on October 1 together with an Operational Evaluation Unit (OEU) example. The main support party left for Goose Bay - the Tornados' only scheduled refuelling stop - aboard two Tristars and three VC- lOs and was joined later by the 'sweeper party', which arrived via Keflavik aboard a C- 130 Hercules. Its tasks would include rectifying any problems at this end of the leg should the need arise. At Goose Bay two of the eight Tornado GR.1s from RAF Bruggen were replaced by a brace of Tornado F.3s, owing to technical problems and all eight, along with the main party carried on to Nellis AFB the following day. The 'sweeper party' meanwhile stayed with the remaining seven F.3s and two GR.1s that left on October 3, departing the next day for Winnipeg, Canada, for a refuelling stop, before arriving at Nellis at around 5pm. The 11 Sqn detachment flew as part of the Red forces, with sorties including four aggressor F-16s and six Tornado F.3s. These ten defenders faced vastly superior attacking Blue forces, which included AMRAAM-armed F-15s and German F-4F Phantoms acting as fighter sweep. More often than not the RAF Tornado F3s could not cope with the vastly superior attacking Blue forces, but despite this the Americans were impressed with the F.3's anti-AMRAAM tactics and the way the RAF crews used the Radar Homing and Warning (RHWR) system. The RHWR compares received radar signals against a library of known emitters and predicts, using such radar aspects as PRF (Pulse Repetition Frequency) which system it is listening to. This is then displayed to the crew on their CRTs (Cathode Ray Tube) as a bearing and with an identification tag. Thus, if an F-16 radar is detected from straight in front of the aircraft this would appear as a strobe in the 12 o'clock position on the CRT along with the tag 'F-16'. Within the self-defence suite in manual mode, the crew then decide what action, if any to take from simply manoeuvring to avoid the threat to countering to it with one of the self-defence pods. Once 11 Sqn had completed its two-week stint, it was replaced by 111 Sqn from RAF Leuchars which sent 14 crews and 120 groundcrew. Instead of flying with the Reds as 11 Sqn had done, they were part of the Blue forces escorting Tornado GR.1s and B- 1Bs with F-16s and F-117s on simulated deep strike missions and were up against F- 15s and F-16s. Unfortunately, bad weather dictated that the two six-ship sorties planned each day were often cancelled. Having completed the detachment, the squadron then brought the eight Leeming aircraft back to the U.K. One of the aircraft diverted en- route, to Cheyenne Municipal Airport, Wyoming and was repaired by 14 Sqn groundcrews who were acting as 'sweeper' for the returning GR.1 deployment. The next two-week F.3 slot was taken up by 29 Sqn with eight aircraft equipped with the Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS). It was the first time the squadron had gained the chance to use the system at Nellis, although 5 Sqn who are co- located with them at RAF Coningsby had made the same journey during early-1996. They followed the route of their predecessors via Goose Bay to Nellis, having left RAF Coningsby on October 30 with a total of 14 flying crews and 90 groundcrew. The JTIDS F.3s worked in tandem with 8 Sqn's E-3D Sentry AEW.1s, the latter down-loading information on the battlefield to the Tornados' computer. In the air war knowledge is power and JTIDS greatly increases the Situational Awareness (SA) of the fighter crew thus making it easier to stay out of trouble and at the same time make every engagement successful. Increasing the back-seaters' awareness of just where the enemy are substantially improves the chances of killing the enemy with Skyflash or Sidewinder missiles. The role of the fighter sweep is to clear the skies of enemy aircraft before the bombers come in. During its stay 29 Sqn flew one of its two daily missions at night and achieved 90% of its taskings. JTIDS operates on a jam-resistant waveform and allows differing types of information to be shared securely between network participants by radio, you could call it a secret Internet! Although during Red Flag JTIDS link participants only included the F3s and E-3s, the potential is enormous. Currently it includes radar sites, major HQs, ships and other combat support aircraft but in the future JTIDS could be available to field HQs, combat vehicles and even the troops. Fighting alongside 29 Sqn were the crews of 12 Sqn flying in a mix of Tornado GR.1s drawn from RAF Bruggen and Lossiemouth. They had been the third GR.1 unit to deploy during the RAF's six-week sojourn in the Nevada Desert, and took over where 14 Sqn and 31 Sqn had left off. It too brought out 14 crews, comprising six and a spare for the first sortie and the remaining half flying the second mission of the day. Though 12 Sqn is known mainly for its maritime role, the unit wouldn't have had much call for such operations in the middle of Nevada, although nearby Lake Mead may have provided some light relief. Instead, its role was that of ground attack, working with USAF F-15s, F- 16s and F-117s. The six-week RAF deployment to Nellis finished on November 15 and the eight Tornados left for Goose Bay three days later. AII of the squadrons agreed that their participation in Red Flag 97/1 had been time well spent. Subscription details to AirForces Monthly. 12 issues; UK 30 pounds Sterling (PST), Europe 34 PST, USA 34 PST (61.20 US Dollars), Canada 37 PST, Zone1 46 PST, Zone2 48 PST, Surface Mail 34 PST. Subscription Dept, AirForces Monthly, Key Publishing Ltd., PO Box 300, Stamford, Lincs., PE9 1NA, UK. USA & Canada telephone toll free 800-688-6247 or write to. AirForces Monthly, Key Publishing Ltd., PO Box 100, Avenel, NJ 07001. [U10]****** Source: Gloucester Citizen newspaper Date: Friday 20th June 1995 Glos' encounters of the third kind! In recent months, Gloucestershire has been invaded by armies of mysterious men from outer space - so say the increasing number of people who claim to have had an out of this world experience. Helen Blow investigates. Tom and Sally, a couple in their mid 20's, were driving along a quiet Gloucestershire road when they saw bright lights in the sky. It was 10.30pm. By the time they reached their home in Dursley eight miles away, the clock was about to strike midnight. They cannot explain how they lost more than an hour of their lives. But bizarrely, the only explanation they can come up with is that they were abducted by aliens. "Between spotting a light in the sky, almost too bright to look at, and getting home, somehow we mislaid an hour we cannot explain." says Tom (26). "We saw two smaller lights detach and streak towards the car, leaving a trail of light behind them. "The lights then vanished. They winked out like stars, and after a couple of minutes we drove the remaining eight miles home. "It was 10.30 when we set off but when we reached home we realised it was midnight," says Tom. "There is no way it could have taken us one and a half hours to drive eight miles." The Gloucestershire couple are not alone. It is just one unexplained incident of many that have been recently reported across the county. A leading city business man claims to have been abducted by extraterrestrials, who subjected him to physical examinations with sexual overtones. An entire family say they have been used as scientific subjects for alien experiments over a number of years and a woman from the south of the county claims she was taken forcibly into a flying saucer and sexually examined. All these people, who have chosen to remain anonymous, have contacted the Cheltenham based Psychic Research Group (PRG) with their strange tails. Group member Derek Newman says: "They come to us because they fear they are going insane and need reassurance. "They want to talk to someone who is going to take them seriously and may be able to offer some explanation to what happened. "We do not automatically accept these people have encountered aliens, but we do look seriously into their experiences and try to come up with some answers. "Obviously we do get hoaxers but I think most people really believe what they claim." Often, however, their experience is the result of perhaps something traumatic that happened in their childhood or the result of an over active imagination. Tom and Sally turned to the PRG after getting a predictably sceptical reaction from work colleagues. Their experience happened on a car journey from Wiltshire in May, where they had been visiting Tom's mother. It was as they approached the locally known hill Cam Peak, which stands as a sentinal above town, that they saw the light. Group spokesman Chris Romer said: "If the light had been as bright as they claim and coming from such a high point, surely it would have lit up the whole town. "We should have other witnesses but no one else has come forward." In Chris's opinion, both Tom and Sally are reasonable people. Tom is an accounts manager and partner Sally (24) is his personal assistant. "I asked them if they could have made a mistake over when they set off but his mother has confirmed the time and, as she is an elderly lady, it is unlikely they would have stayed very late." The couple is considering having hypnosis to uncover the truth behind what really happened that night. But Chris has advised against it. "Too often hypnosis can bring up false memories because of what the person may have just read about. "And if they do 'remember' being abducted and sexually examined, it could be tremendously psychologically damaging. That would be terrible, especially if it never actually happened!" Ever since American George Adamski claimed he met a visitor from Venus in 1952, humans have been fascinated by the idea of alien contact. Of the thousands of sightings, predictably 90 per cent have come from America. Some meetings are friendly. Others, like the Gloucestershire sightings, are far more sinister. While the friendly aliens, known as Nordics because of their shock of white blond hair and tall stature, simply observe and ask questions, the other entities are a different story all together. Nicknamed the Greys because of their skin colour, they are far smaller with large heads and wide black eyes. These are the abductives who take people against their will and conduct medical experiments on them. Perhaps the best known account of extra-terrestrial contact was told through the book Communion, documenting American author Whitley Strieber's alleged abduction and examination in 1985. Group UFO expert Nick Hunter has been working with a Gloucester couple who claim to have had a series of terrifying experiences with alien beings. "The father says he has been visited by aliens since he was a teenager and they have returned several times. "Both he and his wife report seeing a very bright globe come into their bedroom, followed by a floating object that vaguely resembled a small Post Office Tower. "They always felt very scared but remembered nothing afterwards unitl, under hypnosis, both reported being taken away and medically examined," says Nick. "The man found marks on his body that resembled punctures, and had a sore leg the next day that he had not had previously." Nick said the couple's children have also reported waking up and seeing 'little people' around their beds. Nick is in the middle of setting up a special UFO helpline from his Cheltenham base for anyone who thinks they have had an out of this world encounter. "People need to talk to someone about what happened and especially to others who have had similar experiences. There are a lot of people who have gone through this and it can be terribly upsetting. "They need to be able to talk to someone who is going to listen and offer help." World News [W1]****** Source: Daily Mail newspaper Date: Thursday 2nd January 1997 By Jupiter, the asteroids are coming By David Derbyshire More than 200 giant asteroids have broken free from their orbit around the sun and are roaming across the solar system, scientists are warning. Some of the rocks - all at least two-thirds of a mile wide - could be heading towards the Earth's orbit. The asteroids have escaped from the Trojan swarms, two giant clusters of asteroids which follow Jupiter's orbit around the sun. For the first time, astronomers based in the U.S. have evidence that the Trojan belt is breaking up - thanks to the immense gravitational pull of Jupiter. Some of the asteroids have shot off away from the sun into outer the outer reaches of the solar system. Others are heading towards Earth's orbit, scientists believe. But while the asteroids could come close to Earth in astronomical terms, the chances of collision are extremely small. Even at it's closest, the Earth is 390 million miles from Jupiter. 'The Trojan swarms of Jupiter are slowly dispersing,' Harold Levison, of the Southwest Research Institute in Colorado, told the science journal Nature. 'Indeed our results show that the Trojan swarm must be added to the growing list of dynamically unstable structures in the solar system.' [W2]****** Source: News Center Date: 6th January 1997 Prediction of UFO landings in Israel falls flat TEL AVIV - They're late. Aliens were supposed to have landed in Israel between 8:30 p.m. and midnight on Sunday, according to an Israeli mystic whose prediction persuaded many Israelis to take to their rooftops and look for UFOs. But no one -- except for U.S. peace negotiator Dennis Ross -- asked to be taken to Israel's leader on Monday. Mystic Helinor Harar, whose previous claim to fame was her prediction that Benjamin Netanyahu would be elected prime minister, grabbed the Israeli media spotlight with her extraterrestrial New Year's forecast. Israel's Channel Two television stationed camera crews across the country on Sunday night to capture any arrivals -- timed to coincide with its most popular entertainment programme. State-run Channel One sent cameras to Harar's rooftop vantage point, where she pointed excitedly at a bright light drifting through the sky from the Mediterranean. "Thank you, God,'' Harar exclaimed as the light drew nearer. It was only a plane heading to Tel Aviv's Ben-Gurion airport. [W3]****** Source: News Centre Date: 7th January 1997 Strange green light sparks UFO reports in Italy ROME - Italy indulged in a bout of UFO fever on Tuesday after witnesses reported seeing a strange green light flash through the evening sky near Rome's main airport. Air traffic controllers said the sighting on Monday was probably the result of an optical effect caused by the light. Three pilots at Fiumicino airport and air traffic controllers said they saw a luminous green sphere speed through the sky from east to west for a few seconds along the coastline near Rome. The light, which died out above a pine grove, failed to register on radar screens. Police investigated but found nothing on the ground. [W4]****** Source: CNN Date: 4th October 1996 Mysterious flash lights up Western sky 'I've never seen anything like it' LOS ANGELES A mysterious flash lit the Western sky from San Francisco to central New Mexico, fueling speculation that a UFO whizzed by, a low-flying plane swooped overhead or a chunk of space rock fell from the sky. What the thing was remains a mystery, though an astronomer said it might have been a "piece of asteroid." People from California to New Mexico reported the strange flash shortly before 9 p.m. Thursday. Witnesses said it was an intensely bright bluish-green light which streaked across the sky for just a few seconds. Kevin Mullins with Kern County California Fire Department told CNN they received several calls from people claiming to have seen the mysterious light. Christine Church of Belen, New Mexico, described the object as having a row of five to six lights lined up horizontally. At first, she thought it was an airplane about to crash, but when she went out to investigate she found nothing. "There was no noise, no crash and the lights were gone," Church told CNN. "I've never seen anything like it." A television news helicopter pilot said he swerved to avoid what he at first thought was a spotlight from another helicopter. But NASA officials downplayed the sightings saying the object might have been a falling satellite, and an astronomer at Los Angeles' Griffith Park Observatory said the flash was probably caused by space debris burning up as it entered the atmosphere. "This is probably the biggest flash we've seen in two years," said astronomer John Moseley. "The meteor was probably a crumbly piece of asteroid, or possibly a fragment of a comet." [W5]****** Source: CNN Date: 12th November 1996 The Bright Lights of Rachel Business is booming in Rachel, Nevada, a little burg of about 100 people and just 150 miles north of Las Vegas. This is the high desert, where despite the sand and sunshine, it can get very cold in the evening. And very strange too. Things are seen in the night. Unexplained things. And when people come to Rachel to see them, Joe and Pat Travis make money. Rachel, you see, is near Area 51, the top-secret Air Force Base chock full of captured alien spacecraft, according to UFO enthusiasts. It is also home to The Little A-Le-Inn, a seven-room hotel run by the Travises. With everything from the movie Independence Day to The X-Files bolstering belief in ETs, the Inn is pretty full these days. Joe Travis told us they arrived in Rachel in 1988 after an injury caused him to lose his carpenter's job at another Nevada military base. He and his wife bought the then-named Rachel Inn, renovated it, and soon realized that they were in the right place at the right time. "We've seen strange lights that didn't act like stars," he said. "But for the first three years we didn't have time to go outside. If we were finished [renovating the inn] before ten o'clock, we went home." Home being a trailer in back of the Inn. Now the inn is full almost every weekend, and sometime during the week as well, with UFO buffs . What used to be Route 375 has been dubbed "Extraterrestrial Highway," and the place that used to serve hamburgers, now offers alienburgers. "It's like a hamburger, but on French bread," Travis said. Maybe the French are considered alien life in Nevada, we can't say. But Travis told us that the customers aren't really too strange at all. "The people who are into it are just common, ordinary folks. They just believe in extraterrestrials. The higher the education, the more likely they are to believe." We asked Joe if he believed there was life on other planets? "There's a lot in the Bible about aliens," he said. "Jesus said I am not of your world. The bible says the earth is but a grain of sand. If you think the universe is a beach, then there's an awful lot of sand out there." -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:21:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 15:16:39 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:58:44 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >> >"Janet Kimball" (the woman who supposedly saw the abduction >> >from the Brooklyn Bridge) has a trait all her own -- she put adhesive >> >labels with big red borders on her first envelope. On the labels she's >> >written "re: Brooklyn Bridge." Nobody else's envelopes have anything >> >like that. >> Maybe Hopkins asked her to do that. >Not likely, since she did that on the first letter she ever sent to him >(actually a thin package, containing a long letter and various drawings >of what she said she'd seen). This package arrived out of the blue, and >in fact he didn't open it until she contacted him again. I'm not sure if its curious that she would do that or not... >Unless, of course, someone believes the whole thing is a hoax that >Hopkins pulled. Then he, or someone working with him, was planning every >detail like that. I _personally_ think that's pretty unlikely. But, _personally_, I think its a hoax and that Hopkins knows its a hoax but it was such a _good_ setup/hoax that he couldn't resist. Has anyone taken out ads in the local papers served by the postmark of Janet Kimball's letter asking her to _privately_ come forward?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:21:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 15:13:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:29:40 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy "creatures" >Proposed terrestrial explanation for entities depicted in >"alien autopsy footage": >[...] >Although atrocious, it's not unreasonable to suspect the >military of the late 1940s to conduct experiments of this sort >on civilians... And remember that we brought back hundreds and hundreds of ex-Nazis as we made our way through Germany at the end of WWII. Most were scientists of one type or another and some of them were into the weirder human experimentation. >This is the only feasable hypothesis I can come up >assuming (_strictly for the sake of argument_) that the >bodies on Santilli's film are human and that the >crash-retrieval story recounted by the cameraman is at >least correct in essence. >I welcome any leads/comments pertaining to this. I think the film is hoax, but I'm 50/50 on whether the body is real of synthetic. Your hypothesis is certainly viable in my opinion.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Quotes Query From: David & Angie Lynn <davangl@idirect.com> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 10:50:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 15:20:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Quotes Query >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:06:51 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: query >Can anyone here help me? >I'm looking for the exact original form of two well-known quotes. One is >J. Allen Hynek's line about 21st century science, and the other is the >Arthur C. Clarke chestnut about an advanced technology being >indistinguishable from magic. Sorry, Can't help you on those. Hope you like these... Go, wondrous creature! mount where Science guides; Go, teach Eternal Wisdom how to rule- Then drop into thyself, and be a fool! (Pope, Essay on Man, II) Science is vastly more stimulating to the imagination than are the classics. (J.B.S. Haldane, Daedalus) True science teaches, above all, to doubt and to be ignorant. (Miguel de Unamuno, The Tragic Sense of Life)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Missouri Spook Light & Ted Philips info From: bikebob <bikebob@MO.NET> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 10:23:48 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 15:10:14 -0500 Subject: Missouri Spook Light & Ted Philips info Errol Bruce Knapp (and Glenn Campbell; et al.), (You have my permission to reproduce either, or both, of the following copyrighted [by me, Bob Soetebier] articles in either hard-copy form in your newsletter, and/or on your web site, if you should choose to so...as long as you adhere to the following conditions noted below. :) I, Bob Soetebier, grant permission to any/all to reproduce -- either electronically, or in hard-copy format -- the two following/attached copyrighted [by me] articles: (1) The Hornet "Spook Light" Revisited (2) "The Legendary Ted Phillips" This permission is granted under the following limited conditions: (a) As long as they are reproduced in their entirety...*un*edited [Okay to reproduce them as separate, "stand-alone" articles.]; (b) and, as long as they retain both the copyright notice and proper attribution; (c) and, as long as they are not reproduced for commercial gain (without my express prior written permission). /s/ Bob Soetebier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hornet "Spook Light" Revisited Copyright 1997, by Bob Soetebier The Hornet "Spook Light" (HSL) is an intriguing enigma. Reports of this particular phenomenon -- which occurs in the corners of south- western Missouri and northeastern Oklahoma -- have been recorded from as far back as the last century. Distant sightings of, and close encounters with, the HSL continue to be reported. (For recountings of some of these numerous incidents, see the appended listings of books and recently published articles about the HSL.) Some (but, by no means all!) sightings of the HSL *might* be attribut- able to the distant-road, auto-headlights hypothesis (particularly during the time of the year when the leaves are off the trees). The auto-headlight explanation certainly flies in the face of credible close-encounter HSL reports such as this example (taken from page 80 of the 1968 Dell paperback edition of Vincent H. Gaddis' book, Mysterious Fires and Lights) regarding the HSL.: "Dr. George W. Ward, formerly with the Bureau of Standards, Washington, DC, and later associated with the Midwest Research Institute, made an investigation in 1945. He wrote that he observed a glow over the hills, followed by the appearance of a greenish-yellow sphere of light about five feet in diameter. This sphere advanced toward the doctor and his companions. "One of the men, a publicity director for the institute, said he had seen all he cared to see. As the light approached and enveloped the witnesses, he quickly locked himself in their automobile." Some Cautionary Notes: If you're thinking of visiting the site, be advised that -- according to a November 6, 1995, Miami [Oklahoma] News Record article, entitled, "Dark side of the Spook light" -- because of reports of recent property vandalism (fences being cut, etc.) along and nearby HSL road, some of the local area residents there are participating in a "Neighborhood Watch Program." They have also prevailed upon the local Sheriff's Department to enforce a county Anti-Loitering/No-Parking ordinance in the vicinity of, and along, the HSL road: Arresting those who linger longer at that latitude and longitude! Also, in view of all the empty beer cans/bottles on the side of the road there (the site is a popular on weekends and summer evening...or, at least it used to be before the anti-loitering crackdown noted above), anyone who decides to visit the HSL viewing site would be wise to consider that some of the otherwise terrestrial "moving lights" coming at you along the road might not all be "intelligently controlled!" So as not to become an inadvertent target for some of those "lesser lights," it's not necessarily advisable to set up a vigil along the HSL road. Now that you have been forewarned... There are at least two ways to get to the HSL road-site location. If you're coming from the south, the best approach would be (as noted in the Missouri Department of Natural Resources official publication, Geologic Wonders and Curiosities of Missouri): From the junction of Highways 43 and BB, 3 miles northwest of Racine, go west for approximately 2.5 miles to a T-junction. From that junction, go north for 1.25 miles to the [another T-] junction. This junction is on the Oklahoma-Missouri border. To look for the Spook Light, look westward from the [T-junction] along the east-west Oklahoma road. Alternately, if you're coming from the north, the most direct way to get to viewing location is by the following route: From I-44 in southwestern Missouri, at a location about 7 miles south- west of Joplin, MO -- literally at the "Tri-State" border junctions of Kansas/Oklahoma/Missouri, but still barely in Missouri -- get off the Interstate highway at the Hwy. 166 (Baxter Springs, KS) exit. Go south under I-44, and then immediately turn right (west) on a paved road. After a very short distance on this road, turn right again on a road that will shortly turn to gravel. Proceed a total of almost exactly 4-1/2 miles (from under I-44) on this gravel road. Along the way on this long, somewhat rough, gravel road, you will have to pass over a couple of low-water bridges. [If there has been a lot of recent rain, you may not be able to get through and will have to temporarily abort your trip until the water recedes. --- WARNING: IF the water is abnormally high -- more than a foot across the road, do NOT attempt to cross the low-water bridges!] Do not turn off this gravel road onto any of the side roads until you see a house with a mail box with the name of "Farmer" on your left. That's the house at the head of the "T"-intersection. The gravel road -- known as to the local residents as "Stateline Road" -- you're already on will continue to travel forward; but, that's where (just barely beyond and across the road from the house) you'll need to turn right onto the side gravel road. This is the long, straight, undulating HSL [aka: East 50] gravel road. For further information about the HSL, refer to these recent articles in the following publications.: "Spooklight" -- by Suzanne J. Wilson; p.p.: 8-11, January, 1997, issue of the "Missouri Conservationist" magazine; Freely available from the Missouri Department of Conservation Internet Web site URL address: http://www.state.mo.us/conservation/conmag/1997/01/2.html "Old Faithful of the Ozarks" -- by Wann Smith and William Equals; p.p.: 33-36, October, 1996, [Vol. 49, No. 10; issue 559 of] "FATE" magazine; Internet Web site URL address: http://www.llewellyn.com "The Hornet-Joplin 'Spooklight'" -- by Bob Soetebier; p.p.: 10-12, July/August, 1996, [Vol. 11, No. 4] issue of "UFO" magazine (P.O. Box 1053, Sunland, CA 91041). Internet Web site URL address: http://www.ufomagazine.com Book references: Geologic Wonders and Curiosities of Missouri, by Thomas R. Beveridge; p.p.: 329-330. Revised and published in 1990 by the Missouri Dept. of Natural Resources, Division of Geology and Land Survey, P.O. Box 250, Rolla, MO 65401. Tel.#: 314-364-1752. Mysterious Fires and Lights, by Vincent H. Gaddis; p.p.: 79-80. 1968 paperback. Dell Publishing. ----------------------------------------------------------- "The Legendary Ted Phillips" Copyright 1997, by Bob Soetebier In his spare time, Ted Phillips races cars for fun and excitement. As if pushing himself (and his terrestrial-bound vehicles) "to the outer limits" isn't enough of a challenge, Ted's business, Astronomical Systems: Astronomical Telescopes & Astrophotography Equipment, gives him "license" to indulge his other passion: Scanning the skies for UFOs! Mr. Phillips is an internationally known and respected UFO researcher. He refers to himself as a "nuts-and-bolts" UFO researcher. Phillips' main field of expertise and interest is "physical-trace" evidence left as a result of UFO sightings and/or encounters. He has documented and reported upon innumerable UFO-related physical-trace cases over the years. Many of these field investigations were conducted in the company of his best friend: Dr. J. Allen Hynek. After the death of Dr. Hynek, Ted took a few years hiatus from Ufology. The obvious good news is that he's back at it now...full-throttle! Ted currently serves as an Assistant State Director for Missouri MUFON. He and his wife now reside in southwest Missouri, where he is actively investigating and documenting the Hornet "Spook Light." Ted Phillips is one of the scheduled featured speakers at the April 11-13, 1997, "9th Annual Ozark UFO Conference" in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. His public presentation at that time will include "an update on the Missouri 'Spook Light,' plus an overview on the Ufology's history." [For more information on the April 11-13, 1997, "9th Annual Ozark UFO Conference" in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, send a S.A.S.E., along with a note requesting a registration form, to: Ozark UFO Conference Information, #2 Caney Valley Drive, Plumerville, AR 72127-8725. The advance-registration (through April 5, 1997) fee for the three-day conference is $35.00/person; or, $40.00 at the door.] ----------------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:21:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 15:18:18 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 14:42:44 -0600 (CST) >> The _only_ thing we presently know is that there _is_ a reliable, >> statistically significant, and very interesting concurrance. >Uh - but that's *not* true, John. That's the whole point. When you >examine how the stats were fudged, there *is* no such correlation. Fudged? Fudged how? >> My _personal_ opinion is that geomagnetic activity probably does explain >> the great majority of _simple_, short-duration, non-descript DDs and NLs. >I can't say that I agree with your opinion, but it's yours to hold. Its just a personal opinion <grin>, yet to be proven, and it wouldn't bother me in the least if I'm 100% wrong. >When we actually look at the NL and DD data, there are very few that >appear to be explainable as EM activity. Airplanes and fireballs, >maybe, but not EM activity. I don't think we know enough about how the human mind responds to magnetic fields (generated by geologic activity or not) to make that claim just yet. We sure don't know enough about fireballs and ball lightning. >> Which is fine anyway since by definition these simple, short-duration and >> non-descript DDs and NLs don't look good in a high-detail multi-observer >> database and (hopefully) aren't the stuff we want to explain/understand >> first. >Oh, I don't know about that. If we can't understand the basic and >overwhleming majority of UFO reports, I wonder how ufology can come to >terms with more complex cases. Yep, I understand that angle. I frequently make the assumption (possibly dangerously) that the bulk of sightings, being short-duration and low-detail events, are fairly close to (therefore) being irrelevant, while the long-duration and high-detail events are the more important. >> I should also point out that the best UFO flaps on record are probably _not >> in any way_ connected with geomagnetic activity: Gulf Breeze, Belgium, >> Bentwaters, the 1947-era, Husdon Valley, (and others I can't remember right >> now). >... although Devereux explained the Welsh Revival flap as due to EM >activity (Earth Lights), for one. I don't know anything about that flap so I can't comment. Generally, I doubt that any 'flap' can be so explained. >PS: Heed Pat's warning, John! Have you ever had that feeling you were >being watched ... ;) Hahahahha!!!! All the time...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Quotes Query From: "John W. Ratcliff" <jratclif@inlink.com> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 10:43:35 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 15:21:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Quotes Query Rob Irving offered up this old chestnut: "Arthur C. Clarke: 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguisable from magic' - from Profiles of the Future." A statement which I feel needs to be amended, in light of various Fortean phenomena we sometimes experience, to read: "Any sufficiently advanced magick is more likely to be mistaken for technology." John W. Ratcliff (I'ld put a <g> marker here, but I'm not joking.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Ufology 'Stalled'? From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:21:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 15:14:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Ufology 'Stalled'? >From: Nick Humphries <nickh@PhoneLink.COM> >To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Ufology stalled? >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:00:29 -0000 >Here's an article which I recently sent to Usenet which I think might >be better answered here... >---------------------- >In the past decade or two, how far has ufology progressed? That depends on your viewpoint I guess. >What advances have been made? >I'd say none. True, the raw data that's been gathered has rocketed >thanks to the FOIA process and various world governments being more >willing to release their data, but what use has it all been? Big advances in photogrammetry, photoanalysis, etc. At least two good older film/photo cases were reviewed and found to be of ordinary objects. A number of suspected hoaxes were confirmed, and some very good cases were made better by having survived even more difficult analysis. Sure, we have lots more data than we had before. So much more data in fact that only now has the massive data gathering process started to slow down a bit allowing serious analysis of what has been collected. It will be another 5 years before good analysis of huge amounts of data has been performed. >Do we know what UFOs are made of? No. We know that some are made of the same stuff we make our craft with <grin> >Have we any idea of where they come from? Nada. (well, nothing >with reasonable evidence to back them up with) We know that some are from right here. >You can repeat conspiracy theories until you're blue in the face, but >you have no proof of anything more than a cover-up of ignorance. No, there's more than simply that. I don't think its appropriate to claim a coverup of ignorance on the part of the gov't/military until they've released _ALL_ their files for us to examine. Remember, there's still thousands of pages of UFO material withheld as classified and even the reason for withholding that material is being withheld as classified. >Having observed ufology for the past five years, read a lot of UFO >literature spanning decades, all I think now when I read a new case is >"Oh look, here's another... > Light in the sky > Possible UFO landing > Possible UFO crash (or "emergency landing" :) ) which > undoubtably turns out to be bogus (Long Island, Carp, etc) > Radar/visuals > Military case revealed via FOIA or equivalent > Abduction which has no third party witnesses (funny that...)" >More data, but what do we actually GAIN from all of this? We're all >waiting for The Big One where there is irrefutable proof of alien life >in our backyard, and The Big One will occur no matter how much or how >little UFO research is done now. >So why bother? Simple. It's an interesting hobby, nothing more. What >else would you call something which is non-productive? >Comments? I could easily argue that ufology is non-productive but I won't argue that its a hobby. And its not a hobby for everyone as is true for most hobbies. Every hobby requires some amount of passionate involvement and commitment. (We can argue the "irrefutable proof of alien life in our backyard" at another time <grin>.) Here are some of the big gains that can/have come from ufology: - A much better understanding of the military, military history, etc. - A much better understanding of human psychology, and the limits of our understanding thereof. - A better understanding of the limits of science in explaining _known_ phenomenon. Let's remember that we still have real crop circles (despite the 99% that are hoaxed) with no _practical_ explanation for them, we still have cattle mutilations, we still have stigmata and dowsing with no reasonable explanation for how they work, And we still have solid-as-a-rock real events with no explanation for them such as Roswell, Bentwaters, Hudson Valley, Belgium, Cash-Landrum, etc. Lastly, the 'rear look through the open window' <grin> perspective. For a number of years ufologists and their apologists whined because they got little or no media attention. Over the last 10 years that has changed dramatically. A short view indicates that things now are worse than ever. A long view hints that this immense media exposure is a phase that ufology needs to experience, and probably anyone even peripherally associated with ufology needs to experience also. One of ufology's gains has been that media exposure and if we're real lucky another (future) gain will be having survived it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 01 Feb 97 15:55:35 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:16:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:29:40 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy "creatures" To Mac, >Although atrocious, it's not unreasonable to suspect the >military of the late 1940s to conduct experiments of this sort >on civilians; indeed, prisoners, orphans and low-income >laborers were subjected to illegal experiments designed to >determine human tolerances to radioactive substances. _If_ >the Santilli creatures are humans (probably subjected to >surgical modification), then they probably originated from >an orphanage or shelter and were thus written off the books >in the name of national security. This might work for the autopsy footage but how would you explain the debris footage under this scenerio? The six-fingered panels tie the debris footage to the autopsy. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:18:48 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:34:39 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 11:21:45 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >Uh - but that's *not* true, John. That's the whole point. When you > >examine how the stats were fudged, there *is* no such correlation. > Fudged? Fudged how? By allowing dubious data into the equations. The "correlations" only worked when the UFO data included cases that occurred 6 months prior or after the seismic events, and as much as 700 kilometres away, Furthermore, the UFO data included 90% misidentifications, whicj somehow were required to make the correlations work. Any statistician I showed the studies to recognized it as fudging. > >When we actually look at the NL and DD data, there are very few that > >appear to be explainable as EM activity. Airplanes and fireballs, > >maybe, but not EM activity. > I don't think we know enough about how the human mind responds to magnetic > fields (generated by geologic activity or not) to make that claim just yet. Claim? What claim? We know for a fact that airplanes and stars are misidentified as UFOs in the vast majority of cases. When we whittle down the statistical sample, we're left with very few that seem to fall into other categories. Now, *these* might have something to do with EM fields, but that's where the TST must go. > >Oh, I don't know about that. If we can't understand the basic and > >overwhleming majority of UFO reports, I wonder how ufology can come to > >terms with more complex cases. > Yep, I understand that angle. I frequently make the assumption (possibly > dangerously) that the bulk of sightings, being short-duration and > low-detail events, are fairly close to (therefore) being irrelevant, while > the long-duration and high-detail events are the more important. I'm with you 100% on that one. Many researchers don't even record te NLs beacuse they feel they're not relevant. There are some ufologists who have given up case investigation entirely to focus only on abductions, a step that I feel is going backwards. > > >... although Devereux explained the Welsh Revival flap as due to EM > >activity (Earth Lights), for one. > I don't know anything about that flap so I can't comment. Generally, I > doubt that any 'flap' can be so explained. Me, too. :) > >PS: Heed Pat's warning, John! Have you ever had that feeling you were > >being watched ... ;) > Hahahahha!!!! All the time... ;) Must be the NSA stooges in our midst! -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:28:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:41:45 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again As our laconic conversation on the Linda case continues, John Powell writes: > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > But, _personally_, I think > its a hoax and that Hopkins knows its a hoax but it was such a _good_ > setup/hoax that he couldn't resist. I'd love to see you and Budd have a conversation about that. For whatever it's worth, I don't detect a trace of deception in him. Those who've read Budd's book "Witnessed," about the case, may remember two outsiders Budd brought in to observe Linda and her reactions. One of them, Gibbs Williams, is a psychoanalytic therapist in private practice in New York. The other, Charles Strozier, is a historian, a specialist in millenial beliefs, and a MacArthur prize winner. He's also a psychoanalyst. (Sounds too good to be true, I know, but it is.) I've spoken to both of them. Both say they're not close friends with Budd, and neither is convinced that abductions are physically real. Strozier, in fact, is quite skeptical. Both, however, came close to staking their reputations on Linda's honesty. Williams saw her privately, and gave her psychological tests. He doesn't believe she's capable of staging a hoax of this complexity. Nor does he feel she shows the psychopathology he feels would be necessary to lie with the emotion she consistently manifests. (Anyone who wants to argue about the psychology of this please argue with him, not me.) > Has anyone taken out ads in the local papers served by the postmark of > Janet Kimball's letter asking her to _privately_ come forward? I know her name and where she lives. An ad in the local paper would be a dramatic violation of her privacy. She would read it, and wonder who had hunted her down. Next would they appear at her door? Her family would freak. Since they're the impediment to her coming forward, even privately, the effect of the ad would almost certainly be to make it less likely that she'd come forward in the future. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 Re: Quotes Query From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:30:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:46:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Quotes Query Thanks, everyone, for responding to my quotes query. I even liked the ones I wasn't looking for! Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 1 US Government Position on Fast Walkers and Slow From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:46:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:57:43 -0500 Subject: US Government Position on Fast Walkers and Slow With updating the DSP satellites, it is hoped more information about to category of slang used by various US Space component commands would become available to public researchers. Pertinent records concerning these two categories; Fast Walkers, and Slow Walkers could be cited in Joint Tactical Exploitation of National Systems (JTENS), a Joint Chiefs document. Further clear references to these terms could also be found in Security Classification Guide for Defense Support Program, and Large Processing Station Procedures (21 OGI 10-120101), as well as IR User's Handbook. Records on Slowwalkers are exempt from mandatory disclosure, and are classified in the interest of national defense and foreign policy - EO12958. Records on Fastwalkers bear even more significant classification- A Glomar response; Their existence or nonexistence could neither be confirmed nor denied in accordance with the exemption clauses of EO12958. Already a significant amount of records are in my archives and in time I would provide more information concerning these two terms. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 19:01:19 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 00:31:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy Theresa-- >Date: 01 Feb 97 15:55:35 EST >From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy >'Creatures' [...] > This might work for the autopsy footage but how would you >explain the debris footage under this scenerio? The six-fingered >panels tie the debris footage to the autopsy. This is a definite problem with my theory. Perhaps the military actually went to the trouble to build 6-digit control panels to accomodate the "freaks'" polydactyly...although I don't find this especially likely or convincing. My "terrestrial explanation" is probably insufferably off-base, but I hope it's aroused some speculation. I am more than open to the idea that the footage is a hoax, but I've yet to read anything that makes me feel certain it is. If the footage is staged, it contains some oddities that--at the very least--indicate some eccentric behind-the-scenes thinking. --Mac
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: Coincidence? From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 19:09:24 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 00:34:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Coincidence? Bob Shell wrote: >Date: 30 Jan 97 10:45:48 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Coincidence????? >Take a look at http://datahand.com >Looks to me like the control panels from the debris footage re-engineered for >five-fingered hands. [...] >If the film is a controlled release, then it would make sense to get patents in the works before that release. >I'm looking into the background of Dale J. Retter. >Bob Good luck! This is one of the most intriguing leads I've come across. Chances are the DataHand wasn't reverse-engineered in the traditional sense, but it's very possible that the essential concept was adopted from the debris film. --Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Shramek To Address HUFON in February From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 97 19:03:18 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 00:33:25 -0500 Subject: Shramek To Address HUFON in February >From hufon@juno.com (HUFON) Organization Houston UFO Network Date Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:32:56 GMT Newsgroups houston.general Message-ID <32f25248.20211596@news.nol.net> Chuck Shramek to speak at Houston UFO Network - February 14th... On 14 November 1996, amateur astronomer and local radio personality Chuck Shramek observed a "Saturn Like Object" he was unable to identify behind the comet Hale-Bopp. Mr. Shramek queried the world via Internet newsgroups for identification of the object. The response was phenomenal - web pages received so many hits they were forced off line. His simple observation has become a topic of intense international debate! Reports as to the identity of the object are widely varied. Some deny its existence while others report it is a Galactic spaceship. Conscientious observers such as Pat Parrinello are studiously looking for sane answers. Meanwhile, Mr. Shramek has become a worldwide sensation and received a great deal of flak for his observation. In defense of himself, Mr. Shramek has gone on-line with one of the most entertaining websites in cyberspace. He "debunks his debunkers" and reports on many strange anomalies surrounding this comet. The site is also full of UFO related conspiracies presented in a humorous and intelligent manner. Join us for a Valentine date with Chuck Shramek at 7:00pm Friday, February 14th. The location is the Innova Building, 20 Greenway Plaza. For further information, be sure to visit Chuck=B9s website at http://www.neosoft.com/~cshramek. The Houston UFO Network=B9s website is at http://chelsea.ios.com/~dalemv19/hufon
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 21:17:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:17:35 -0500 Subject: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy Regarding... >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:29:40 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >Subject: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy "creatures" Mac asked: >If the cadavers shown in Ray Santilli's controversial film >are in fact organic and not FX dummies, perhaps they represent >the victims of early, secret aviation experiments using human >"freaks" as test pilots. Mac, Similar ideas have been suggested, but there are some problems with these scenarios. In the "Alien Frames" article, Theresa Carlson highlighted the primary obstacles: "Do we have an explanation for the eye coverings? If they were a protective covering to keep the eyes moist, as speculated, why would the doctors remove them during the procedure? Also, why would they preserve these coverings? Can we explain the obscure, transparent article removed from the chest area? We find more questions in the opened body. The internal organs are not human. The brain is not human. The reflected skin reveals no subcutaneous fat layer. While some diseases will diminish body fat considerably, the reflected skin shows no fat whatsoever. Also missing from this body are veins, arteries, mamilla, and a navel". There's also the "Roswell" debris and the six-fingered "control panels" to account for. That brief footage could of course have been added to provide a the link to the Roswell case, but if the bodies were evidence of a perverse experiment, we then have a scenario where people are knowingly perpetrating a cynical hoax using human corpses. There's also the point that anyone who went to the trouble of creating the "debris" footage, would conceivably be sufficiently talented to have made the rest of the footage in the first place! It does seem to be a simple choice between two explanations; it's everything its claimed to be, or it's a scam. >Although atrocious, it's not unreasonable to suspect the >military of the late 1940s to conduct experiments of this sort >on civilians; indeed, prisoners, orphans and low-income >laborers were subjected to illegal experiments designed to >determine human tolerances to radioactive substances. Yes, there were projects in both the US and the UK which used unwitting human guinea pigs to study the effects of radiation and chemical weapons. >This is the only feasable hypothesis I can come up >assuming (_strictly for the sake of argument_) that the >bodies on Santilli's film are human and that the >crash-retrieval story recounted by the cameraman is at >least correct in essence. >I welcome any leads/comments pertaining to this. Your scenario is not implausible, but for the above reasons it doesn't seem to fit in this case. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: Professor Courtney Brown From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:31:23 GMT Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:21:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Professor Courtney Brown tO INSIDERS LIST - THIS from Deleted.: Forward to your other lists: _____________________________________________________________________ This text has been removed from the web archive at the request of the original author, who says he did not intend it for public distribution. -- Ufomind Webmaster, 7/31/98 _____________________________________________________________________ Reply: Assume you read Chace's recent silliness. Maybe my reponse. Chace is misguided, if well-intended. Brown has gone beyond differences in theory. He's a liar and fraud. I suggest you go to the Academic Senate and also the Atlanta papers. EBeckjord
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: Quotes Query From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 21:48:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:20:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Quotes Query Perhaps surprisingly, I have only ever once heard quoted what was referred to as "Philip Klass's Curse on UFOlogy". It was something like - "You will never understand the UFO phenomenon any better than you do now". I would expect that someone on the list knows what the exact curse was and as I've always wanted to clarify that, any confirmation would be appreciated. If possible, I would also like to know when and where this was first said. If anyone knows of a more haunting curse, I don't want to hear it. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Bill McDonald's 'Testor's Roswell Model' From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 0:14:33 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:22:39 -0500 Subject: Bill McDonald's 'Testor's Roswell Model' The controversial "gun-camera photo" of a flat, crescent-like object featured at: http://www.strieber.com looks almost like something from a 1950s outer space movie. Could it be the Testor's Roswell UFO model designed by Bill McDonald (or has McDonald's kit even gone into production?) **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 04:30:18 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:23:56 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:41:53 -0500 From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > An opinion from someone who has seen the video tape, is that the person on > film has a strong New York accent. He does not sound to have a New York accent to me at all. He has a resonant voice. Deep and clear. I would say midwestern. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: Coincidence? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 02:24:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:25:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Coincidence? >Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 19:09:24 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: Coincidence? >Bob Shell wrote: >>Date: 30 Jan 97 10:45:48 EST >>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Coincidence????? >>Take a look at http://datahand.com >>Looks to me like the control panels from the debris footage re-engineered for >>five-fingered hands. >[...] >>If the film is a controlled release, then it would make sense to get >>patents in the works before that release. >>I'm looking into the background of Dale J. Retter. >>Bob >Good luck! This is one of the most intriguing leads I've come >across. Chances are the DataHand wasn't reverse-engineered in the >traditional sense, but it's very possible that the essential concept >was adopted from the debris film. >--Mac Tonnies ====================================================================== Hi Bob, Hi Mac, Hi all, I have spoken with Bob about this. Although after having seen the "Datahand" I agree that the design is almost identical to the debris in the Santilli film, I think it's unfair to imply that the concept for the Datahand was necessarily 'gotten' from it. Glove style devices for controlling computers have been around for more than just a few years, and it seems to me that the "Datahand" concept is just a natural extension of that technology. A "static" (desktop) version of the glove if you will. Again, I do find the similarities between Datahand and Santilli's debris curious and maybe even a bit compelling, but folks are starting to talk like that's "probably" the way that Mr Retter got the idea for the design. It _is_ within the realm of possibility that this poor bastard Retter (who unbeknownst to himself is about to become grist for the UFO mill) came up with the idea on his own! As Mr T would say (in regard to the "probably innocent" Mr Retter,...) "I pity the fool!" <G> John Velez ;-) ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: Professor Courtney Brown From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 97 19:11:10 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:31:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Professor Courtney Brown John Velez, in quoting Bill Chace: >>Since error is often the companion of truth, and since truth is >>always to be sought yet never to be gained, universities have >>always had an intimate acquaintance with falsehood. ...noted that; >Error si, fraud no! This has nothing to do with innocent error. A conscious >and intentional fraud has been perpetrated and the source of that fraud >should be sought out and exposed in order to prevent future occurrence. >[Somebody] sat at a computer and intentionally 'hoaxed' those pix. What's >with all the "rights of the academics" and such, this is about simple, >blatant, and not so petty crime! >John Velez Yep. I reckon you sent that squirrel up the highest tree. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 BUFORA Analyses of Israeli From: Mike Wootten <ej77@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:25:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:29:59 -0500 Subject: BUFORA Analyses of Israeli Hi, For your interest and distribution as you see fit. ATB Mike BUFORA Analyses Israeli 'Dead Alien' Material report by Mike Wootten Director of Publications, British UFO Research Association In the midst of intense international controversy, the British UFO Research Association has released its findings after an in-depth investigation of three samples alleged to be taken from a dead alien discovered in Israel. Background On 21st December 1996, after many reports of UFO sightings in the Galilee farming village of Achihod, an 'alien' which allegedly fell from a 'craft' was captured by a local kibbutz resident, Tziona Damti. The creature was described as being 5cm in length with human features, four limbs, no fingers and surrounded in a slimy material. It was further alleged that the creature was still alive on discovery but later died. Tziona Damti called the police. Two officers arrived to investigate. It was claimed that when one police officer bent down to put the "alien" in a bucket, it jumped on his back. Officer Asher Ben Ezra told the press that the volume of bodily fluids left on the ground by the creature was abnormal and which led him to believe that there was something suspicious about it. On hearing this news, psychic, Uri Geller, offered the family $1,000,000 to purchase the creature to add to his vast collection of curiosities. The Israeli media took great interest in the story and the Damti family along with local UFO researchers were certain that they had found something of great scientific and financial value. It was later claimed that the creature had been analysed by Israeli scientists who found that the creature was 'not of this world'. However, these claims have not been backed up with a report or an author of the comments. Other researchers and Israeli journalists speculated that the find was an aborted salamander foetus. BUFORA's Involvement Whilst the controversy raged, BUFORA was surprisingly contacted on 15th January by Israeli UFO researcher, Debby Segal, who along with Uriya Shai, were representing the Damti family. Debby requested that BUFORA analyse three samples taken from the creature that she was bringing over to the UK. BUFORA agreed and commissioned a noted private lab to conduct the analysis. The Analysis The lab took delivery of the samples on 16th January and completed the work on 29th January. BUFORA had asked for an initial study to ascertain whether the samples supplied could be of extraterrestrial origin and whether further work would be justified. It was agreed that the carbon and nitrogen signatures of the samples should be examined to see whether there was a marked difference from the signatures that all terrestrial life would produce. Each sample was analysed three times (enough for the results to be legally admissible in a UK court). The very latest, British designed, mass spectrometer equipment was used to conduct the analysis The Results The nine conducted tests showed that each signature fell well within terrestrial limits. Not included in the report is the assertion by the lab technicians that the signatures come very close to those expected from lizards and frogs. [Lab report follows] LC2 Ltd. (Analytical Laboratories) CERTIFICATE OF ANALYSIS Certificate Number : LC97-006 Project Description: Analysis of Biological samples for Delta C13 values and N15 values by Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry Submitted: By Debbie Segal Date received: 16th January 1996 Your Reference: Analysis and report commissioned by BUFORA Ltd. on behalf of Debbie Segal Our Reference: LC97-006 Date of report: 30th January 1997 Project Summary Three samples were received into the laboratory for analysis. The samples were placed into a liquid Nitrogen container for storage purposes and to minimise any possibility of cross contamination of sample integrity. Each sample was carefully removed from the liquid Nitrogen container and a small portion of each was removed for Isotope analysis and placed into a sterile pre-cleaned vial of EPA quality. Each sample was then subjected to Isotope analysis using a Micromass EA Isotope ratio mass spectrometer with both Carbon and Nitrogen measurement capability. Each sample was run in triplicate to establish good statistics for both the Carbon and Nitrogen components of the samples. Project Results Sample ID Delta C13 value Nitrogen Value LC23741 -24.25 4.2 (Brown Container) LC23742 -24 12 4.3 (White Container) LC23743 -24.35 4.2 (Black Container) Typical Values for Terrestrial -15 to -30 0 to 14 Samples (depending upon diet) These values fall directly in the middle of expected values for terrestrially derived Carbon and Nitrogen and therefore we submit that these samples are of terrestrial origin and not extra terrestrial origin as originally anticipated. For the attention of: Debbie Segal, Simat Ben Shabat, Shmuel No. 56b, Neve Yosef, Haifa, Israel Signed on behalf of LC2 Analytical Laboratories: Keith Hall Director ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is the first time that a British UFO research group has had the opportunity to examine samples that are alleged to be of an alien origin and it is the first time in nearly 20 years that the study of any UFO related material has been objectively analysed in the UK (Livingston Case). Geller, who was immediately informed of the results by BUFORA is said to be very disappointed with the Associations findings. So too are the Damti family along with their supporting UFO researchers. Conclusion BUFORA is not disappointed with the results. We are an objective research organisation who approach the subject with an open mind. We work to ascertain facts and although we have a negative result, we have done what we set out to do and establish facts. However, to many this may not be the end of the story. Despite, submitted expert and impartial opinion, there will be those who will argue that what we have presented proves nothing. It may be said that it is possible that an alien life-form may have the same carbon and nitrogen signatures as us. But the same argument may be posed if we had discovered that the samples had similar cell structures or indeed DNA. Indeed if we follow the popularist theory that we are all born from an alien origin then we would never be able to prove or disprove anything in this case irrespective of what analysis or expert opinion we sort. This is a circular argument that dogs the subject time and again. In the cold light of day, BUFORA is satisfied that this careful and precise analysis shows that what was discovered in Israel last December does have a terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial heritage. We are however, open to further discussion and are also willing to undertake further objective analysis of the samples. We are now unfortunately unable to finance any further work. Mike Wootten 1st February 1997 mwootten@dial.pipex.com http://www.bufora.org.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Lectures on Quantum Biology and Vacuum-Field Energy From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 08:09:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:27:33 -0500 Subject: Lectures on Quantum Biology and Vacuum-Field Energy Forward: Newsgroups: bit.listserv.emflds-l From: "Robert G. Flower" <chronos@enter.net> Organization: Applied Science Associates Subject: Announce: Lectures on Quantum Biology and Vacuum-Field Energy To: EMFLDS-L@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU The Center for Frontier Sciences at Temple University (Philadelphia, PA) invites you to attend the (free) Spring '97 Lectures on topics of Quantum Biology, Vacuum-Field Energy, and Alternative/Complementary Medicine: February 24, 1997 (Monday) 2:00 pm Cyril W. Smith, Ph.D., Department of Engineering, University of Salford, Salford, UK "Is a Biological System a Macroscopic Quantum System?" Evidence in support of quantum effects in living systems will be presented in relation to developments in the theory of water that predict the existence of coherence domains in the ground state within chaotic water. March 17, 1997 (Monday) 2:00 pm Dr. Hans A Nieper, FAPM, President of the German Association of Vacuum Field Energy and Past-President of the German Society of Oncology, Hannover, Germany "Conversions of Vacuum Field Energy: Its Significance for Medicine, Medical Therapy, and Energy Technology in the Forthcoming Century." The space between particles of atomic matter is filled with an energy field, called a vacuum field. This field shows an extremely high energy density and vital interactions with biological systems. The prospects for developments in medicine and energy technology are presented, including the conversion of vacuum-field energy into usable forms. March 18, 1997 (Tuesday) 2:00 pm George Weissmann, Ph.D., Berkeley, CA "The Quantum and I: Implications of the Emerging Quantum Paradigm" Seventy years after its development, quantum theory still poses challenges to the foundations of science. Its implications are not only scientific and philosophical, but also, if we allow them to penetrate us deeply, existential. For quantum theory appears to offer us the opportunity to reenvision ourselves and our universe in a fundamentally interconnected way, opening the path for a new synergistic relationship between science and spirituality. April 3, 1997 (Thursday) 2:00 pm William J. Walsh, Ph.D., Founder and Director of the Carl Pfeiffer Treatment Center and Health Research Institute, Naperville, IL "Biochemical Treatments: Health for the Next Century" Biochemical treatment aims to alleviate chemical imbalances through the use of neurotransmitter building blocks: amino acids, vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients. Chemical classifications and syndromes for behavior disorders, depression, and schizophrenia and described. Outcome studies measuring the efficacy of biochemical treatments for these disorders are presented. ------------------------- Place: Temple University Kiva Auditorium, Ritter Hall Annex 1301 Cecil B. Moore Ave. (NE corner of North Broad St. & Cecil B. Moore Ave.) Philadelphia, PA Time: 2:00 - 3:30 p.m. Refreshments served at 1:30 p.m. Lectures are free; the academic community and public are invited. ------------------------- For further information, please contact: Nancy Kolenda, Coordinator Phone: 215-204-8487 Fax: 215-204-5553 E-mail: v2058a@vm.temple.edu Website: http://www.temple.edu/CFS ------------------------- Center for Frontier Sciences at Temple University Ritter Hall (003-00), Room 478 1301 Cecil B. Moore Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19122 USA ------------------------- About the Center for Frontier Sciences: The goal of the Center is to facilitate scientific study in areas such as bioelectromagnetics, the mind-matter interrelationship, complementary and alternative medicine, unresolved issues in quantum physics, and new energy technologies. As an integral part of a major university, the Center maintains high standards in reviewing new claims, while remaining open to ideas that may go beyond currently dominant paradigms. Frontier Perspectives, the Center's semi-annual journal, publishes peer-reviewed scientific papers, along with Invited Opinions, Book Reviews, and news of organizations, meetings, and other publications of interest. A cumulative index is posted on the Center's website at URL http://www.temple.edu/CFS. Best regards, Bob Flower ======================================================= Robert G. Flower, Applied Science Associates Quality Control Engineering Instrumentation Systems - Technology Transfer ======================================================= ********************************************** ********************************************** * UNUSUAL RESEARCH * * * * http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html * ********************************************** **********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: Quotes Query From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 11:39:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:16:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Quotes Query James Easton quotes Philip Klass: > From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Quotes Query > Perhaps surprisingly, I have only ever once heard quoted what was referred > to as "Philip Klass's Curse on UFOlogy". > It was something like - "You will never understand the UFO phenomenon any > better than you do now". But doesn't Phil think HE understands the UFO phenomenon perfectly? <laughing> Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:22:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:39:04 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:28:36 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >> But, _personally_, I think >> its a hoax and that Hopkins knows its a hoax but it was such a _good_ >> setup/hoax that he couldn't resist. >I'd love to see you and Budd have a conversation about that. For >whatever it's worth, I don't detect a trace of deception in him. Its just my personal opinion/hunch. I've seen him speak a number of times and I don't detect a trace of deception in him either. Y'know, its not that I don't like the guy or anything remotely like that. In fact, I like his extremely personal manner. I just think that so-called (alleged <grin>) alien abductions is monumentallly too important an item for someone with his slack non-scientific approach. >One of them, Gibbs Williams, is a psychoanalytic therapist in >private practice in New York. What exactly is a "psychoanalytic therapist" anyway. >> Has anyone taken out ads in the local papers served by the postmark >> of Janet Kimball's letter asking her to _privately_ come forward? >I know her name and where she lives. An ad in the local paper would be a >dramatic violation of her privacy. She would read it, and wonder who had >hunted her down. Next would they appear at her door? Her family would >freak. Since they're the impediment to her coming forward, even >privately, the effect of the ad would almost certainly be to make it >less likely that she'd come forward in the future. Well, I automatically have a problem with her not coming forward _in some manner_. Its not like she has to appear on Late Night with David Letterman y'know. Would she be willing to meet with one or two people who don't know here true identity, take a lie detector test, answer a series of questions? What is the nature of the family problem with her coming forward? Compared with the possibility of independently establishing at some part of the reality of this alleged event I'm a little surprised at her total reluctance to help.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: Professor Courtney Brown From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 11:24:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:34:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Professor Courtney Brown Erik Beckjord said; >Reply: Assume you read Chace's recent silliness. I would not call it silliness. Chace is standing on the principals of The Constitution of the good `ol US of A. In that I support him to the fullest. However, Erik, I also support your views for the exact same reason! :) Kinda like being caught between a tic & a tight place. Until someone has the moxie to file suit on Brown, I afraid yours and others views are only views & opinions... What is missing is hard evidence. Whomever did the little hoax is having his day of giggles. If he &/or she is ever found out... Well, what go's around comes around. Nothing go's over the Devils back that does not come under his belly. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:22:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:37:31 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:18:48 -0600 (CST) >> >Uh - but that's *not* true, John. That's the whole point. When you >> >examine how the stats were fudged, there *is* no such correlation. >> Fudged? Fudged how? >By allowing dubious data into the equations. The "correlations" only >worked when the UFO data included cases that occurred 6 months prior or >after the seismic events, and as much as 700 kilometres away, >Furthermore, the UFO data included 90% misidentifications, whicj >somehow were required to make the correlations work. Uh-oh. 400 miles away is probably _way_ too distant, but I'd allow up to a 100 miles, maybe 200 miles. I'm astounded that the time window is 6 months either way! More like 6 _HOURS_ surrounding the total event. Are we talking about a series of seismic events spread out over time, or clearly isolated-in-time seismic events? >Any statistician I showed the studies to recognized it as fudging. It begins to sound like that to me. Do you know where I can get the raw data? If you reduce the observation distance to 200 miles and the time window to 24 hours what sort of correlation do you get? >> I don't think we know enough about how the human mind responds to magnetic >> fields (generated by geologic activity or not) to make that claim just yet. >Claim? What claim? We know for a fact that airplanes and stars are >misidentified as UFOs in the vast majority of cases. When we whittle >down the statistical sample, we're left with very few that seem to fall >into other categories. Now, *these* might have something to do with EM >fields, but that's where the TST must go. Majority, sure, but I don't know about vast majority. I do know that many (virtually all) of these cases are investigated post-event. Its convenient, perhaps accurate, to attribute a star (and the cute trick the mind plays when staring at a stationary object far away) to the sighted object. But how do we know that's really the right answer? Fireballs, balls of light, ball lightning all play into this also. >> Yep, I understand that angle. I frequently make the assumption (possibly >> dangerously) that the bulk of sightings, being short-duration and >> low-detail events, are fairly close to (therefore) being irrelevant, while >> the long-duration and high-detail events are the more important. >I'm with you 100% on that one. Many researchers don't even record te >NLs beacuse they feel they're not relevant. There are some ufologists >who have given up case investigation entirely to focus only on >abductions, a step that I feel is going backwards. Well, it was you good folks up North who first (so far as I know) decided to back-burner any single-witness short-duration sighting by default (as policy) and you've seen me whine about how to prune the data in any database to avoid including such data in trend/pattern analysis. I don't know if that's the right approach or not. I can cite a few reasonable-sounding reasons why it is the right approach <grin> but that doesn't automagically make it the right approach. (But I think it is.) On the other hand I'm generally skeptical of explanations that merely sound good. How do we know a sighting was a misidentfication of an airplane or a star? I've read sighting reports that conclude airplane misidentification simply because an airport was less than 50 miles from the event site, yet the witness cited they _also_ saw an airplane elsewhere in the sky. >> >PS: Heed Pat's warning, John! Have you ever had that feeling you were >> >being watched ... ;) >> Hahahahha!!!! All the time... >;) Must be the NSA stooges in our midst! I only live 20 minutes from NSA HQ (therefore I _must_ be in their employ <grin>) so I'm used to them... My neighborhood is about 75% retirees who are generally home quiite often. In my job I very frequently travel 3 or 4 days a week then I might be home 3 or 4 days a week, etc. Obviously, with such a weird schedule, I _must_ be a secret agent being sent on various secret agent missions... The older residents keep tabs on me constantly <grin>.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 Re: Emory & Courtney Brown From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:22:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:35:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Emory & Courtney Brown >From: ParadigmRG@aol.com >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:11:02 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Emory U. President Wants Posts re: Courtney Brown >In a message dated 97-01-31 17:34:30 EST, you write: >>> Stephen G. Bassett said; >> >Matters of tenure, academic freedom and the recent episode at >> > Harvard regarding Dr. John Mack come to mind. >> What faked, false "evidence" did Mack share with >> Art Bell, then call him up and practically 'threaten' >> to try to keep him from releasing said "evidence" >> from the public eye? >> None? Correct. I rest your case. >> ~Pat~ >If you are a committed skeptic, or perhaps a debunker, it is understandable >why you would have no empathy for Dr. Browns current dilemma and nothing need >be said. What dilema? The Top Dog at Emory has already made it clear in a written statement that he supports academic freedom and that takes Brown's head off of the administrative plate. Brown himself has refused to have his claims tested by his colleagues at mory so that takes his head off of the plate there too. What dilema? >However, if you are someone open-mindedly following the unfolding evidence >and events and are intently or loosely a member of the community some call >UFOlogy - this can be said. What evidence? >It is troubling that so many who pursue this matter and yearn for the benefit >of the doubt from and to be taken seriously by the mainstream academic and >scientific world, are so willing to withhold these same gifts from others >within their own community. Brown was provided benefit of the doubt and his colleagues have offered to help him substantiate his claims via testing. I'm quite certain that his colleagues at Emory are capable of structuring a series of tests that would fairly and scientifically ascertain any validity to Brown's claims. Brown is the one who refuses to participate in this. >What Dr. Brown has or has not done, what is or is not a hoax, what >realtionship this does or does not have to the rest of his team's work, >remains to be ascertained. What can be ascerained if Brown refuses to participate with his colleagues at Emory? >Let those of us who pursue these issues give the others who pursue these >issues the same fundamental considerations of fairness, proof and discovery >as the President of Emory University has given Dr. Brown. The President of Emory has merely stated that he honors the principles of academic freedom, but you should understand that that goes both ways. Brown's present refusal to participate in scientific inquiry into his claims is going to be a major problem for him. >Case open and pending. No, Brown has closed the case himself because he refuses to have his claims scientifically verified. This will undoubtedly provide more than enough fuel to the fire of accusations of scam, hoaxing, etc. The facts to date are very simple: 1) Emory colleagues have offered to verify Brown's claims, with his participation; 2) Emory administration has honored the principles of academic freedom at Emory; 3) Brown refuses to participate with his academic colleagues to verify his claims; 4) Brown demands (in typical one way street fashion) the benefits of academic freedom while ignoring the responsibilities thereof. I'm sure that Brown's academic freedom shelter will continue, and I think that is appropriate, but I'm also sure that the pressure on him to respond to the responsibilities inherent in the principles of academic freedom will increase significantly. We should not that this is not an accurate parallel to the Mack Attack. With the exception of certain few client privacy issues Mack was extrremely forthcoming with his academic colleagues. There were serious questions regarding his methods (and therefore the results) but he did not refuse collateral scientific inquiry.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 2 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 5 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:54:03 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:40:40 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 5 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 5 February 2, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor TELSTAR 401 DISAPPEARS IN FLIGHT An AT&T television relay satellite has disappeared from its geostationary orbit, and nobody knows quite what happened to it. Telstar 401, a $200 million satellite built by Lockheed Martin, was launched in December 1993 and placed in orbit over the Earth at longitude 97 degrees West. The spacecraft functioned perfectly well for three years and then disaster struck. On January 6, 1997, the sun ejected a coronal discharge, a magnetically-charged cloud of hydrogen and helium 30 million miles wide. This "solar tsunami" rushed outward into the solar system at 1 million miles per hour, reaching the Earth on January 10. The cloud was tracked by 20 Earth satellites, including the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) launched in December 1995, NASA's Polar Wind satellite, the U.S. National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration's GOES-8 and GOES-9, Japan's Geotail and Russia's Interball satellites. When the cloud struck Earth's magnetosphere, it released an electrical charge of 1 million amperes. Astronomer Stephen Maran of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland said, "This is the first time a solar event has been captured from cradle to grave." On January 11, several hours after the event, Telstar 401 suffered a massive power failure. Scientists thought it had been damaged by the solar tsunami, but couldn't understand why other satellites hadn't been affected. As Joseph C. Anselmo reported in his article in Aviation Week & Space Technology, "Robert Hoffman, a NASA scientist said Telstar 401 was located in an affected area of the magnetosphere. But, he cautioned, 'We have no idea what caused the failure.'" "Another scientist involved in the observation spoke more bluntly, 'I'm convinced this storm knocked out the satellite,' he said, noting that Telstar 401 appeared to emit a massive electrical discharge several hours before it failed. 'Obviously, in this business nothing is certain. But it would be a very strange coincidence.'" (See Aviation Week & Space Technology for January 27, 1997, page 61, "Solar Storm Eyed as Satellite Killer.") On Saturday, January 25, 1997, ultra-sensitive radars at NORAD's Combat Operations Center at Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado picked up a "bogey" approaching the derelict Telstar 401 on an intercept course. Dr. Stanton T. Friedman quoted Maj. Gen. John Yancy Jr. as describing the intruder as "a large unknown object." Maj. Gen. Yancy reportedly said, "It looked like a large meteor closing in on 401." A few seconds later, both the UFO and Telstar 401 vanished from the radar screens. If a collision had taken place, there should have been a debris field still in orbit. NORAD radar is sensitive enough to track gas clouds in orbit. Yet radar sweeps of the orbital zone revealed no trace of any objects, debris or gases. A more detailed search may be carried out by the Naval Research Laboratory (NRL). Last September, in cooperation with the U.S. Air Force and NASA, the NRL tested its new Satellite Laser Ranging (SLR) system, which can detect orbital objects out to 12,635 miles (20,200 kilometers). If Telstar 401 is still out there, the SLR ought to be able to find it. (Many thanks to Dr. Stanton T. Friedman for this story.) (Editor's Note: Telstar 401 was parked over the 97th meridian when it vanished. The 97th is also known as the "mystery meridian" because of several UFO-related events that have taken place there, notably the York, Nebraska "airship" case of February 1897.) MYSTERY SPHERE IN SOUTH TEXAS On Friday, January 24, 1997, Ed Longcope was feeding the cattle on his ranch in Kingsbury, Texas (population 950), off Highway 90 about 40 miles (64 kilometers) northeast of San Antonio when he spotted something shiny embedded in the ground. Longcope reportedly described the object as "It was a large hollow steel ball, about the size of a medicine ball, and had screws at opposite ends" and "a weld seam around the middle." The sphere was found half-buried in a nearby cow pasture. The steel showed a few noticeable scorch marks consistent with an object entering Earth's atmosphere from space. Longcope phoned the Guadalupe County Sheriff's Department and told them what he had found. Sheriff's deputies took the sphere to the National Weather Service station in New Braufels, Texas, but the weathermen could not identify it. According to Deputy Todd Friesenhahn, a group of U.S. Air Force officers from Randolph Air Force base east of San Antonio took the sphere to the base for tests and analysis. Two days before Longcope's discovery, at 3:30 a.m. on Wednesday, January 22, police stations in the San Antonio area received phone calls from people reporting "light flashes" in the skies around New Braunfels. (See the Houston, Texas Chronicle for January 26, 1997.) (Editor's Note: In September 1996, a UFO was videotaped in daylight over New Braunfels, Texas.) TWO MORE ENCOUNTERS IN OHIO On Wednesday, January 22, 1997, at 8 p.m., Alicia Garwood sat behind the wheel of her car at the intersection of a side street and Main Street in Loveland, Ohio (population 9,106), waiting for the stop light to change color. Suddenly, a "triangle-shaped object" with lights at all three corners rose from behind Main Street's stores and hovered over the intersection. "The object made a 'wooooosh' sound," she said, "And a second later it disappeared." Ms. Garwood also noticed airplane lights at a much higher altitude. The following night, Thursday, January 23, 1997, at 8:30 p.m., two women were walking in the parking lot of HQ Hardware Store, located at the intersection of Ridge Road and McLean Avenue in the Oakley section of Cincinnati, Ohio. One of the witnesses was seven months pregnant. All at once, both women noticed a strange flickering light above the parking lot. Looking up, they spied "a saucer-shaped object that appeared and disappeared in the sky above the parking lot. The object hovered at a low elevation for 3 and 1/2 minutes" prior to leaving along "a zigzag departure path." Joedy Cook of Cincinnati, an investigator and founding member of Tri-States Advocates for Scientific Knowledge (T.A.S.K.) said the condition of the sky that night was "clear with a full moon." Cook also checked with the Oakley precinct of the Cincinnati P.D. and the Hamilton County 911 communications center, but there were no other reports of UFOs. Cook said the pregnant woman "was taken aback by the event, which she calls an 'incident.'" (Many thanks to Kenneth Young, T.A.S.K.'s public relations director, for this story.) NORAD CALLS FIREBALL A "MISSILE" At 3:30 a.m. on Wednesday, January 22, 1997, a bright green fireball lit up the sky over the central United States. The light was seen in five states, including Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas and Texas. Wayne Wyrick of the Kirkpatrick Planetarium in Oklahoma City said, "It looked like an airplane on fire and crashing." Major Steve Boylan, a spokesman for NORAD, said the object was the "remnant of a Delta II rocket" used to launch a satellite in December. A woman in Tulsa, Oklahoma said the fireball "appeared to crash just west of the city." (See the newspaper The Daily Oklahoman of Oklahoma City for January 25, 1997. And thanks to Jim Hickman, Oklahoma state director of Skywatch International for this story.) STRANGE FIREBALLS OUT WEST A strange incident took place in Cali, Colorado the night of January 16, 1997. Several witnesses reported seeing "a yellow-orange glow" and "a bright light in the clouds." Disc jockey Melody Barenda of radio station KKXK-FM reportedly told listeners that she had seen "three balls of light and a center light coming right at them" as she was driving to work. She disputed the NORAD explanation, adding, "No way was it a missile." At 7 a.m. on Monday, January 27, 1997, a green fireball was sighted over Cortland, Nebraska, near the South Dakota state line. A shock wave emanating from the object "shook the ground" at several farms. That night, there were reports of mysterious lights seen in the vicinity of Grand Junction, Colorado. At 2 p.m. on Tuesday, January 28, an unmarked UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter was seen flying low north of Grand Junction. The following day, January 29, also at 2 p.m., a CH-47D Chinook helicopter was seen flying the same course and heading. (Thanks to Tim Edwards and Ola Heien for these stories) MISSING AIRCRAFT UPDATE On January 30, 1997, the Aircraft Charter Group of Connecticut posted a $10,000 reward for the recovery of its Lear jet, which vanished from the radar screen six miles north of the airport at Lebanon, New Hampshire at 10 a.m. on December 24, 1996. Two weeks of intensive air and ground searches of the upper Connecticut River Valley around Lebanon, N.H. and White River Junction, Vermont failed to find any trace of the white twin-engined Lear jet. Still missing are Johan Schwartz, 31, and Patrick Hayes, 30, both of Connecticut. (See USA Today for January 31, 1997.) On January 14, 1997, a memorial service was held in Duluth, Minnesota for Major Peter Woodbury, 38, the Air National Guard pilot whose plane vanished from the radar screen over Lake Superior January 7. The wreckage of Major Woodbury's F-16 jet fighter was discovered days later in a bog near Greenwood Lake, about 35 miles (56 kilometers) north of Two Harbors, Minnesota. Major Woodbury and three other pilots of the 148th Fighter Wing, Minnesota Air National Guard were simulating "2 on 2" air combat maneuvers when Woodbury's F-16 mysteriously lost power and its lights as it began its descent. Woodbury was the "top gun" of the 148th Fighter Wing and its training officer. Employed as a full-time pilot for Northwest Airlines, Woodbury joined the U.S. Air Force in 1981. He first flew A-10 ground assault aircraft and then qualified for F-16s. He served in the Air Force for nine years and then switched to the Air National Guard in 1990. The three-day search for the crashed F-16 failed to locate Major Woodbury's body. However, according to Colonel Ken Stromquist, the wing's CO, discovery of the pilot's life raft and parachute fastener, items that would have been on Woodbury's person had he ejected, have convinced them that the body is somewhere at the crash site. The site has been declared a "national defense zone" while the Air Force continues its search and excavation of material. (See the Duluth, Minnesota News-Tribune for January 12, January 13 and January 14, 1997.) NEW ISRAELI ABDUCTION CASE Ufologists in Israel are now investigating a possible abduction case that took place in December 1996 at Rishon Lezion. A teenaged boy named Alex Lemkin was walking through the town park at 11 p.m. when he saw "a little girl of six acting strangely." Thinking the girl was lost, he made his approach and was stunned to see that the "girl" had "albino-white skin and long hair of the same color." While he watched, the girl suddenly "broke into dozens of small lights." Alex thought he was having a hallucination, and that's all he remembers. Next thing he knew, he was lying on the park's grass and had "a few unexplainable scars" on his back. Investigating the case are Israeli ufologist Derrel Sims and journalist Barry Chamish. (Many thanks to Barry Chamish for this story.) FUN UFO WEBSITES Kenneth Green's "UFO Sightings and More" has plenty of great articles and material. Check it out at http://www.mother.com/~green3/ufo.htm Not to be missed is Patricia Reece's new site at http://members.tripod.com/ufo7 Up-to-date UFO news clippings can be found at http://www.schmitzware.com/IUFOG/iufog-headlines. shmtl Want to check out the UFO news in Tasmania? Set your browser for this URL operated by the Tasmanian Unidentified Flying Object Investigations Centre (TUFOIC). You can find it at this address: http://server.netspace.net.au/~tufoic/ Don't miss our parent site, either. It's called UFO INFO at you'll find it at this address: http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm. Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be found at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts If you have a recent UFO to report, drop us some email at Masinaigan@aol.com. Your input is what keeps the newsletter going. That's it for now. Here's wishing all our readers a pleasant week from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any portion of UFO ROUNDUP at their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and editor by name and cite the date of the newsletter in which the story appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:19:35 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:45:56 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:22:27 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >> Fudged? Fudged how? > >By allowing dubious data into the equations. The "correlations" only > >worked when the UFO data included cases that occurred 6 months prior or > >after the seismic events, and as much as 700 kilometres away, > Uh-oh. 400 miles away is probably _way_ too distant, but I'd allow up > to a 100 miles, maybe 200 miles. You're more generous that I am; when I presented the TST to the rest of the geophysics department, they were amazed that Persinger was getting away with saying such things. And, BTW, I showed the TST to Persinger's own thesis advisor, who agreed that the TST was way off base. > I'm astounded that the time window is 6 months either way! More like 6 > _HOURS_ surrounding the total event. Are we talking about a series of > seismic events spread out over time, or clearly isolated-in-time seismic > events? Steve, first of all, if you didn't know what Persinger was claiming, why were you defending him? :) That was why I took an in-depth look at the TST in the first place. Everyone seemed impressed with the *concept* and the *science*, but when I took a hard look at the methodology, it was full of holes. Yes, his "lag" and "lead" time was clearly stated as 6 months. He would accept as correlated data a magnitude 3 seismic event 6 months before a nocturnal light observation several hundred miles away. > Do you know where I can get the raw data? Oh, yes, that minor little point. He never presented the raw data, only the graphs. There's one exception, of course, and that was when he "proved" that UFOs in Manitoba were correlated with weak seismic events in southern Minnesota, >700 km away. In that study, he used my own MANUFOCAT for the UFO data (in others, he admitted using newspaper clippings!). Since I know the demographics of the MANUFOCAT data, it was easy to see how silly his correlations were. And if that was typical of his methodology ... > If you reduce the observation distance to 200 miles and the time window to > 24 hours what sort of correlation do you get? In Manitoba, that would be zilch. Elsewhere, who knows? In California, probably pretty good! :) > Majority, sure, but I don't know about vast majority. I do know that many > (virtually all) of these cases are investigated post-event. Its > convenient, perhaps accurate, to attribute a star (and the cute trick the > mind plays when staring at a stationary object far away) to the sighted > object. But how do we know that's really the right answer? > Fireballs, balls of light, ball lightning all play into this also. Well, that's a very good question, and one aspect of ufology which really deserves study. The simple answer is that post-hoc studies are usually never done because once something *seems* like it was a star, satellite or airplane, there's no need to proceed further. However, your objection to this approach is a basic, philosophical issue, and one that needs to be addressed in detail. In other words, just because the "UFO" is stationary for 4 hours, twinkles like a star and sinks slowly into the west, does that mean it's a star? There is no question that aliens, wishing to disguise their activities could decide to masquerade as a star, but is that more likely than the possibility than the witness was really looking at a star? I think I know which choice I'sd make, based on my investigation experience. I know how poor are the observing capabilities of most people, so my own view is that if it smells, tastes and looks like ****, it probably is ****. As for distinguishing between fireballs and airplanes, that's an easy one. They each have specific characteristics which are identifiable from witnesses' accounts. I was including all these IFOs when I noted the *vast* majority of UFOs being explainable. These questions make one thing very clear: investigative ufology is one field which has been ignored long enough. It's at the core of all ufological research and theories, and we need to take a long look at the basics again (if ufologists ever did at all). > Well, it was you good folks up North who first (so far as I know) decided > to back-burner any single-witness short-duration sighting by default (as Not me, baby! > On the other hand I'm generally skeptical of explanations that merely sound > good. How do we know a sighting was a misidentfication of an airplane or a > star? I've read sighting reports that conclude airplane misidentification > simply because an airport was less than 50 miles from the event site, yet > the witness cited they _also_ saw an airplane elsewhere in the sky. I'd answer: 1) experience; and 2) probability. Also, see above. Witnesses' observational capabilities are *terrible* in most cases. I'd be willing to develop a paper on investigative ufology and present it at some upcoming UFO conference. Of course, it wouldn't be as big a draw as Linda Howe or Colin Andrews, so I won't be looking for my plane tickets in the mail just yet. :) > >;) Must be the NSA stooges in our midst! > I only live 20 minutes from NSA HQ (therefore I _must_ be in their employ > <grin>) so I'm used to them... And those black cadillacs with the smoked windows are sooooo blaisee these days! ;) -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:58:54 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:42:35 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 04:30:18 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:41:53 -0500 > From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > An opinion from someone who has seen the video tape, is that the person on > > film has a strong New York accent. > He does not sound to have a New York accent to me at all. > He has a resonant voice. Deep and clear. I would say midwestern. I agree with Rebecca. He sounds midwest to me too. Maybe Ohio. We need a linguistics expert to make the call. Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Voices... From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 06:49:35 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:41:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Voices... UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:44:26 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Voices... > This is for Philip Mantle: > You are one of the few people who claim to have spoken to someone claiming to > be the cameraman. > It has been said by Michael Hesemann that you also have seen the unedited > video answers that this cameraman gave to Santilli. > Can you tell us if the voice sounds the same? > Thanks, > Rebecca Unfortunately Michael is mistaken. Whilst in London last year with my wife and two daughters (we were visiting the nNatural History Museum) I took the time out to drop in at Ray Santilli's office. I had hoped to see the cameraman's interview that day but unfortunately it was not available (I can't remember why). I did inform Michael Hesemann that I was going to see Ray and the cameraman's interview but I have not yet informed Michael that I did not see the video in question, it simply has not come up in conversations between us. If I do have the opportunity to see the cameraman's interview my memory of speaking to him (allegedly) on the phone would not suffice to make a positive or negative voice identification either way. How I wish I had tape recorded that particular phone call but unfortunately I did not have the capabilities to do so at that time. I hope this claifies this matter for you. Yours, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Karl Pflock Corrections From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:43:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:43:41 -0500 Subject: Karl Pflock Corrections ebk ___________________________________________________________ Friends and Colleagues -- My January 6, 1997, letter to Glenn Dennis was composed from memory and in some haste. As a result, a couple of errors were introduced, which I correct here. I'd greatly appreciate it if you would forward these fixes to anyone with whom you may have shared the original letter, run them as corrections in your pubs (e.g., CNI News), and generally make them known far and wide. The last thing this field needs is the perpetuation of still more faulty info, and I apologize for my recent contribution in this regard. I've sent these corrections to Glenn Dennis, who by the way, is not the least bit upset with me. Ponder that for a while. -- Cheers & thx, Karl Pflock ---------------- February 2, 1997 Correction of two errors in my January 6, 1997, letter re the Glenn Dennis story, errors introduced by haste and reliance on (faulty) memory (there's a lesson here for all of us): (1) The reported disease outbreak on Roswell Army Air Field during the summer of 1947 was tuberculosis, not polio. (2) I stated a researcher had established David Wagnon and another former base-hospital staffer who have said they remember "Naomi Selff" are actually remembering one of the five real nurses pictured in the 1947 RAAF yearbook. In fact, the researcher has established this only with respect to Wagnon. The other gentleman was a good friend of Wagnon's, and his recollections match Wagnon's very closely--thus my careless extrapolation. Unfortunately, the second man has been in very poor health for some time, and thus, to my knowledge, no one has been able to discuss this with him. -- Karl T. Pflock
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:41:13 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:40:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy James Easton wrote: >Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 21:17:45 -0500 >From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy 'Creatures' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... >>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:29:40 -0600 (CST) >>From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >>Subject: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy "creatures" >Mac asked: >>If the cadavers shown in Ray Santilli's controversial film >>are in fact organic and not FX dummies, perhaps they represent >>the victims of early, secret aviation experiments using human >>"freaks" as test pilots. >Mac, >Similar ideas have been suggested, but there are some problems with these >scenarios. In the "Alien Frames" article, Theresa Carlson highlighted the >primary obstacles: >"Do we have an explanation for the eye coverings? If they were a >protective covering to keep the eyes moist, as speculated, why would the >doctors remove them during the procedure? Also, why would they preserve >these coverings? Can we explain the obscure, transparent article removed >from the chest area? >We find more questions in the opened body. The internal organs are not >human. The brain is not human. The reflected skin reveals no subcutaneous >fat layer. While some diseases will diminish body fat considerably, the >reflected skin shows no fat whatsoever. Also missing from this body are >veins, arteries, mamilla, and a navel". >There's also the "Roswell" debris and the six-fingered "control panels" to >account for. >That brief footage could of course have been added to provide a the link >to the Roswell case, but if the bodies were evidence of a perverse >experiment, we then have a scenario where people are knowingly perpetrating >a cynical hoax using human corpses. >There's also the point that anyone who went to the trouble of creating the >"debris" footage, would conceivably be sufficiently talented to have made >the rest of the footage in the first place! >It does seem to be a simple choice between two explanations; it's >everything its claimed to be, or it's a scam. James, You're probably right--it's either what it claims to be or a hoax. _If_ it's real, then the humanoid aspect of the cadaver/s needs to be addressed. If I knew for a fact that the AA footage was genuine, then I would argue that would simply have to be a genetic link of some sort between "us and them." Again, _if_ it's real, then Bob Shell's speculation that the entities are actually time travelers begins to make a surprising amount of sense. If our own military used simians to test the physiological effects of space flight, it's also not outlandish to assume that genuine "aliens" used modified humans for their own experiments. The notion that the beings featured in the AA footage are independently- evolved alien life forms strains belief; I think there has to be a more intimate link between whoever's responsible for the AA cadavers and ourselves. It's imperative that the film is professionally dated; all this speculation could become embarrassing! --Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Feb 97 18:35:09 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:47:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Proposed terrestrial explanation to autopsy >Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 19:01:19 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: Proposed terestrial explanation for autopsy footage To Mac, >This is a definite problem with my theory. Perhaps the military >actually went to the trouble to build 6-digit control panels to >accomodate the "freaks'" polydactyly...although I don't find this >especially likely or convincing. I did consider the possibility that someone found authentic footage of an experiment such as you described, and then created the debris footage to make it into something "alien". But it still leaves actual problems with things in the autopsy footage itself. Like the eye coverings, object in the chest, etc.. A hoax created to represent an alien crash, or authentic footage of the results of a real alien crash. I don't see there being any middle ground, but would be interested in hearing it if someone has an idea. Either way it IS indeed an Alien Autopsy. Whether real or contrived. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:34:52 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:44:47 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again > Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:22:32 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > >Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:28:36 -0500 > >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > >> Has anyone taken out ads in the local papers served by the postmark > >> of Janet Kimball's letter asking her to _privately_ come forward? > >I know her name and where she lives. An ad in the local paper would be a > >dramatic violation of her privacy. She would read it, and wonder who had > >hunted her down. Next would they appear at her door? Her family would > >freak. Since they're the impediment to her coming forward, even > >privately, the effect of the ad would almost certainly be to make it > >less likely that she'd come forward in the future. > Well, I automatically have a problem with her not coming forward _in > some manner_. Its not like she has to appear on Late Night with David > Letterman y'know. Would she be willing to meet with one or two people > who don't know here true identity, take a lie detector test, answer a > series of questions? > > What is the nature of the family problem with her coming forward? The book implies that her family was against her coming forward from the beginning and they didn't want her to get involved in this sort of thing. > Compared with the possibility of independently establishing at some > part of the reality of this alleged event I'm a little surprised at > her total reluctance to help. I would like to see jpeg copies of the letters distributed to this group and perhaps we could come up with something. I would also like to see the picture of Dan that Linda identified from Peter Jennings Night News. If he is dead, as the book leads me to believe, then what could it hurt? And if he is still alive, maybe someone would recognize him. He, afterall, witnessed everything, the initial alien abduction, the association of the UN VIP, and the subsequent abductions of Linda by Richard and himself.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:58:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:48:08 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript Regarding... >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 04:30:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript Rebecca Schatte wrote: >>An opinion from someone who has seen the video tape, is that the person on >> film has a strong New York accent. >He does not sound to have a New York accent to me at all. >He has a resonant voice. Deep and clear. I would say midwestern. Rebecca, The opinion I referred to was mentioned last August by Bob Shell; "The man on the video is described as elderly, quite fat, blue eyes, "hamster faced", strong New York accent". Maybe Bob could clarify his views on this now. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Coincidence? From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:20:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:49:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Coincidence? Hey Guys! Got a question I'd like to pose to your subscribers... During a recent interview with Mona Stafford, one of the so-called "Ladies of Liberty," she mentioned how odd it was that she should be abducted with Louise Smith, a woman that she barely knew and never socialized with before. Causing me to reflect on my own close encounter, which occurred while I was with a fellow I'd never "hung-out" with before either; unlike the Betty and Barney Hill case and/or the Allagash abduction, for instance. Which leads me to ask: Does anyone out there have any thoughts or data regarding the incidence of chance meetings (multiple witnesses) and UFO encounters? Are such events coincidental, or more likely an "event sociological," as Francois Truffaut puts it in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind?" Jerry Washington Kentucky/MUFON SD Home of the "Ladies of Liberty" "Captain Thomas Mantell" and the "Kelly-Hopkinsville Invasion"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:31:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:50:31 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Writing still more about the Linda case, John Powell says: > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > Well, I automatically have a problem with [Janet Kimball, one of the > crucial alleged witnesses in the case] not coming forward _in > some manner_. Its not like she has to appear on Late Night with David > Letterman y'know. Would she be willing to meet with one or two people > who don't know here true identity, take a lie detector test, answer a > series of questions? > What is the nature of the family problem with her coming forward? > Compared with the possibility of independently establishing at some > part of the reality of this alleged event I'm a little surprised at > her total reluctance to help. I agree, and have suggested to Budd that he call her and tell her his own credibility is on the line. Maybe she'd respond to a personal appeal, I thought. The family problem, as I understand it, is that her family thinks she's crazy (a) to believe she saw what she allegedly claims she saw, and (b) to get involved in any way. They have made life difficult for her. However, there's something to remember here, which I only understood when I began learning more about the Roswell witnesses, and listening to some of their unedited testimony. They don't have a notion of being involved in something world-shaking, many of them. They don't have our perspective. They're not involved with UFO research. They didn't spend decades after 1947 chomping at the bit inside, burning with a desire to let the world know what had happened. They may not be people who read newspapers, or think about public policy. They figure, as everyone does, that the government has big secrets. They simply figured the Roswell event was one of them. So what if they knew? Their own lives came first. One indication of how this works is what happened when Pappy Henderson -- a pilot at the base -- told his wife, at long last, that he'd flown wreakage of a spaceship to Wright-Patterson. He read about it in the Enquirer, and said, as she quotes him, that since it's in the paper the secret is evidently out, so he can talk about it. The distinction between a supermarket tabloid and a real newspaper simply didn't exist for him. Likewise, Janet Kimball may not feel a burning sense of responsiblity about any of this. She's better informed about the world than Pappy Henderson, and took what she felt was a major, daring step in telling Budd anything at all. Now she seems to feel she's done her bit, and that nobody has the right to ask any more from her. From her point of view that surely makes sense. If she saw the thing from our perspective, she might think we had a point, too. But it's not surprising that she doesn't. The woman just doesn't pass her time pondering the credibility of UFO research. On other points...I'd mentioned Gibbs Williams, a psychoanalytic psychotherapist in NY who has observed Linda, and vouches for her. John asks: > What exactly is a "psychoanalytic therapist" anyway. Good question. I met Gibbs, and interviewed him for quite a while, not just about Linda, but about his general impression of Budd and his work. Turns out Gibbs has spent some hours, just as I have, observing Budd with abductees. I wanted to write about that, for something else I'm doing, and called him (as he asked me to do) to read him what I was going to write. (By the way, I normally don't extend that courtesy in my journalistic writing, but when a serious professional is involved in UFOs, I understand why he might be nervous about being misquoted!) In any case, I'd identified him as a psychoanalyst, which is what I'd thought he was, listening to more than an hour's worth of his carefully stated, quite reasonable Freudian opinions, and descriptions of some of his patients. But he corrected me, and said he was a "psychoanalytic psychotherapist," which turns out to mean: -- he doesn't put his patients on a couch --he doesn't put them through intensive psychoanalysis, several days a week for many years --he sees them as a nonpsychoanalytic therapist might, one or two days a week, in rare cases more, but uses techniques and insights derived from formal psychoanalysis. Clear? He himself isn't crazy about the distinction, but says it's made by people in his profession, and that he feels he should respect it. In any case, he's been formally trained as an analyst. And, finally, John says about Budd Hopkins: > I just > think that so-called (alleged <grin>) alien abductions is > monumentallly too important an item for someone with his slack > non-scientific approach. Yep, but on the other hand, when Budd first started working on abductions, where were the scientists? Someone had to do it. And where are the scientists now? Not, I must say, that this excuses Budd for such lapses as not keeping a database of how many of the abductees he's worked with have the scoop marks he so often talks about. Amazing to make such a point of that, and not even have numbers. Thanks in part to your comments here, John, there's a good chance that the supposed alien writing will receive a proper scientific study. Stay tuned. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Things That Make You Go Hmmm - Dames From: Ron Russell <ronr@eco-net.com> (by way of Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net>) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:57:39 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:29:07 -0500 Subject: Things That Make You Go Hmmm - Dames _________________________________________________________ Hi Erik, This is from Dan Ward reporting on the man who taught Courtney Brown some of his remote viewing techniques. Dames has been in the employ of the CIA and the DOD. Sweet dreams, RR Ron... Did you hear the Art Bell a night or two ago? Ed Dames, remote viewer, reported that Hale-Bopp has a cylindrical object affixed to it, containing a biologically engineered plant pathogen, which will reach Earth in the form of a meteor shower a little over a year from now. The shower will hit Africa first, and then spread from there. This will lead to massive food shortages and starvation in 1998 -- the result being that 80% of Earth's human population will die in a form of Earth Cleansing. Hale-Bopp has now become the Wormwood to cleanse the Earth of excessive mankind. And just when you thought it was safe to go into the water again!! Pleasant dreams. Daniel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 08:37:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:28:10 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:58:54 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript >> From: XianneKei@aol.com >> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 04:30:18 -0500 (EST) >> To: updates@globalserve.net >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript >> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:41:53 -0500 >> From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> >> Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> > An opinion from someone who has seen the video tape, is that the >> > person on film has a strong New York accent. >> He does not sound to have a New York accent to me at all. >> He has a resonant voice. Deep and clear. I would say midwestern. >I agree with Rebecca. He sounds midwest to me too. Maybe Ohio. We need >a linguistics expert to make the call. >Regards, >Bill Ralls Could it be Cleveland...? Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 AUFORA is operational From: David Watanabe <praetor@spots.ab.ca> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 00:45:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:30:07 -0500 Subject: AUFORA is operational Greetings, I am writing to inform you that the AUFORA Webserver has been successfully moved, and is now fully operational at: http://www.aufora.org/ If you have a link to AUFORA on your webpage, please be sure that this URL is used. Other URLs will NOT work. We would also like to report a stylistic change to the AUFORA site. The changes are only on the main and news pages so far. We appreciate any comments you may have on the redesign. Finally, we would like to extend an offer to webmasters. We have received many requests for a banner exchange system of some kind. Hitherto, we were unable to do this due to stylistic constraints of the AUFORA website. However we now can handle this. If you wish to place an AUFORA banner on your page, we will gladly place a banner advertising your site on AUFORA. Please visit the following for more details or write to us: http://www.aufora.org/misc/banner.html Thanks! David Watanabe davew@aufora.org PS - Helios will not be available for a few more days. Problems with the webserver move are still being dealt with. <CENTER> <A HREF="http://www.aufora.org/" target=_top><IMG SRC="http://aufora.org/gifs/x1.jpg" WIDTH=460 HEIGHT=55 BORDER=0><BR><FONT SIZE=2>Click here</FONT></A></CENTER> <----[[]------!))-->>-!!@-----> Dave Watanabe davew@aufora.org "More is good...All is better"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Voices... From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 02:56:16 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:31:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Voices... > Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 06:49:35 +0000 > From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Voices... > Unfortunately Michael is mistaken. Whilst in London last year with my > wife and two daughters (we were visiting the nNatural History Museum) I > took the time out to drop in at Ray Santilli's office. I had hoped to see > the cameraman's interview that day but unfortunately it was not available > (I can't remember why). I did inform Michael Hesemann that I was going to > see Ray and the cameraman's interview but I have not yet informed > Michael that I did not see the video in question, it simply has not come > up in conversations between us. Thanks for clarifying. It could also be that I am mistaken by what Michael has said/written. > If I do have the opportunity to see the cameraman's interview my memory > of speaking to him (allegedly) on the phone would not suffice to make a > positive or negative voice identification either way. How I wish I had > tape recorded that particular phone call but unfortunately I did not have > the capabilities to do so at that time. Tape recording phone conversations for the most part is more time consuming than I want to put up with. Sometimes it is handy though. I don't fault you for not having done that. > I hope this claifies this matter for you. It certainly does. Thanks again. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:07:45 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:33:22 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript > Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:58:39 -0500 > From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Rebecca, > The opinion I referred to was mentioned last August by Bob Shell; "The man > on the video is described as elderly, quite fat, blue eyes, "hamster > faced", strong New York accent". Thanks for the clarification. > Maybe Bob could clarify his views on this now. That would be nice. It is sometimes hard though to remember these things. I am no dialectologist but I have played a brief clip of the video for a linguist who says, midwestern; although she is no expert on dialects. I have played it for two other people who say midwestern. One of those people lived most of their lives in the midwest and the other one just said that is what it sounded like to him. I think I could identify a strong New York accent and this did not sound New York to me. I will be looking into it further. Not real sure WHY, but it is something I intend to follow-up on. I would like to add, that I did not detect the blue eyes. I am looking at a tape received from the producers of the program and it is as clear I would expect it to be. I could not detect eye color. The color is very washed out. As for age, the man does not look or sound to be elderly but those things are a little more difficult to discern. Maybe even impossible. Thanks Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:03:37 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:32:11 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' In a message dated 97-02-02 13:39:36 EST, UpDates posted: Chris Rutkowski wrote: >>When we actually look at the NL and DD data, there are very few that >>appear to be explainable as EM activity. Airplanes and fireballs, >>maybe, but not EM activity. John Powell wrote: >I don't think we know enough about how the human mind responds to magnetic >fields (generated by geologic activity or not) to make that claim just yet. >We sure don't know enough about fireballs and ball lightning. I'd like to comment on this, since for several years I was involved in magnetic stimulation of the visual centers of the human brain, and wrote two papers on it. I consider myself one of the experts. Not many people are aware of just how powerful the magntic pulses need to be to get any sort of response out of people -- several orders of magnetic greater than any known geomagnetic phenomena, plus extremely brief. For example, to stimulate the visual cortex, you typically need a magnetic field on the order of 5000 - 10,000 gauss pulsed for approximately 100 microseconds. (The earth's magnetic field, for comparison, is less than 0.5 gauss). That's what is needed to get a sufficiently strong induced voltage and current in the brain to get any sort of response at all. Moreover the responses are extremely gross, mostly flashes of light, and only about half the subjects we used experienced even those. It turned out to be extremely difficult to stimulate the brains sensory areas, in fact most experiments with magnetic stimulators use them to *suppress* brain function, not stimulate it. One colleague of mine wrote a paper in which he tried stimulating the visual areas of people who had become blind since birth. He said they reported briefly "seeing" more complex forms like people's faces, but for reasons unknown he withdrew the paper. Even if this anecdotal evidence was true, there has NEVER been any indication that stimulation of this kind can produce some complex, prolonged hallucination, much less shared hallucinations across individuals. The whole idea is preposterous. Gross electrical stimulation like this, say from lightning bolts or electroconvulsive therapy, scrambles peoples minds. It doesn't produce delicate hallucinations with a complete story line. If that were true, hundreds of people every day having MRI scans in magnetic fields of 20,000 gauss, would be hallucinating alien abductions all over the place. This whole line of thought of inducing complex hallucinations came originally from the work of neurosurgeon Wilder Penfield, who during brain surgery, *with the brain exposed* and using electrodes which stimulated *tiny isolated portions of the brain* said that his patients sometimes experienced complex hallucinations, including what seemed to be long forgotten memories from their past, which played back like movies. But this is an entirely different situation from some hypothetical, geomagnetic phenomena, which would have to be vastly more powerful than anything seen before and would affect the entire brain and body, not some isolated area. I might add to this, that the motor nerves are much larger than the sensory ones, and far easier to stimulate. The person would be thrown into violent convulsions by such a field long before the sensory system would respond. I don't recall that being a part of the alien abduction scenario or incidents like Fatima, also supposedly "explained" by this geomagnetic theory. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Attribution and Quoting From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:34:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:34:28 -0500 Subject: Attribution and Quoting ebk _________________________________________________ Hello David, At 03:11 02-03-97 -0500, you wrote: >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:11:41 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' [snip] >My AOL mail reader doesn't automatically provide the >attributions like most mail readers. I've gone back and >gotten the names of the people I was quoting and sent a >new copy of the message to you. [snip] Yes, this I realise - AOL e-mailers also have difficulty keeping lines of text to 70 characters or less. There are many regular posters here from AOL, some of whom have sent me private e-mail regarding the limitations of AOL's software. The difficulty is that daily, there are at least a dozen new subscribers here. It can be very frustrating for them and others to come across messages with no quotes and no attribution, no dates, etc., etc. With the Archive being on-line now, some 'newbies' can back-track and read earlier posts, while others who access the Net via Bulletin Board Systems cannot. The Archive takes hundreds of hits a day and part of our collective objective here needs to be the distribution of cogent, coherent and inherently useful UFO related information Thanks for your effort and understanding. Errol
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:53:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:35:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:09 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:10:02 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs ....snip.... >>JC: Also, if that one "smoking gun" case was found and the >>ridicule reduced sufficiently concerning the topic, I believe you >>would eventually see a number of other cases surface from some of >>those "technically trained" people that never reported them at the >>time of their occurrence. What data set would they fall into and >>how would you handle those? >Being a highly trained and experienced nitpicker I have a sort of >small problem with the possibility of including me-too data, or in >other words post-dated data. I much prefer original data. But, >nonetheless, this would/should be considered right along with our >other best data. >We do know from experience that some large percentage (unknown and >unguessable by me) of sightings don't get reported, and the general >sociocultural climate surrounding the UFO phenomenon is probably to >blame for that. Folks investigating current and even old cases >almost always run across people with a sighting that happenned >N-years ago. >Even though I don't like the odds of accidentally including me-too >data what's the real difference between someone saying they saw >this-n-that two days ago versus two decades ago? Careful >interviewing techniques to attempt to detect fraud and/or >embellishment still apply. JC: John, I feel exactly the same way. I can't ask for a fairer answer re. those people and that's all I would hope for. Thanks, Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Quotes Query From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:53:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:36:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Quotes Query Greg ... you wrote: >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:06:51 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: query >Can anyone here help me? >I'm looking for the exact original form of two well-known quotes. One is >J. Allen Hynek's line about 21st century science, and the other is the >Arthur C. Clarke chestnut about an advanced technology being >indistinguishable from magic. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Here is one: I'd like the other myself. Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972, hardcover Epilogue: Beyond the Blue Book Horizon "...there will surely be, we hope, a twenty-first century science and a thirtieth century science, and perhaps they will encompass the UFO phenomenon as twentieth century science has encompassed the aurora borealis, a feat unimaginable to nineteenth century science, which likewise was incapable of explaining how the sun and stars shine." :-) Jerry E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Alfred's Odd Ode #88 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 06:20:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:37:44 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #88 Apology to MW #88 (For February 3, 1997) It's a swooping of flight that delights and preserves. It's non casual but effervescent. A lightness of being that invites (just?) deserts From an ornery but esteemed convalescent. And where do I get off showing my butt? Who gave _me_ leave to speak? What right have I to spit in your eye, And leave you in ruptures and leaks? Well, I'm near last in my line, with my dues paid. Education has shown me the way. I've paid the dear freight in blood, brother mine, Beyond right, I sense duty I should say. Beyond rage you can color me as kill file. You can strike me from your livid puerile view. You can wash me from your center like a soup stain. You can pound me through the porcelain of your loo. See? I won't live to meet the standards of a dictate. I don't bother with the puling of those few. I won't have their soggy blankets on my light source. I'll be respected as a member of my crew. And every bloody line will have its meaning. And every word could drip subconscious dread -- For what may likely may be a happening? I'm sure that some will wish they're dead. I'll shout for truth that's not forthcoming, I'll shout aloud about bad cops. I'll shout that culture's beer has been left standing, And gone as flat as hammered hops. I'll celebrate the bravery as I find it. I'll write it best as I know how. I'll tell the truth as I can see it. I know the time is right, right now. So, make your clever jibes at process. Take my metrics as a joke. Continue for the moment That I'm vapid as gray smoke. Explain you then my rapture As your scales have left my eyes, And UFO's are all around. . . I can see them in the skies. They are quavering in my mind's eye -- They are swarming on my telly -- In ads, and signs, and posters -- They're on little jars of jelly! On top of all this garbage I have to suffer skeptic sneers I have to witness their denials I have stomach all their jeers. I have to trust in whorish media. . . .Good old boys at city hall. Scientism over science . . . They make it ripe for cultures fall. I can't stay silent in this mess! When I see the forest, and the trees. . . When I see the *stars* that have arisen; When I see my sister on her knees. You'd have me write for Hallmark! You'd pray I'd disappear . . . You'd pray I don't up end your rock, And show you what you fear. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Sometimes, not often, I am glad I was a soldier.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Professor Courtney Brown From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 16:22:14 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:56:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Professor Courtney Brown Brown may have meant well, but I fear that Prof. Brown was mislead by others, ie, the blind leading the blind. I refer anyone interested in actual fact to: http://www.ameritel.net/lusers/rviewer/joe01.htm I have had the pleasure of Joe's company and been a guest in his home. He is the real deal, having been 'put to the test,' literally hundreds of times. IMHO, Joe is the best, (trained), Remote Viewer in the world. Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice At 01:34 PM 2/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Professor Courtney Brown >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 11:24:47 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > > Erik Beckjord said; > >>Reply: Assume you read Chace's recent silliness. > > I would not call it silliness. Chace is standing on the > principals of The Constitution of the good `ol US of A. > > In that I support him to the fullest. > > However, Erik, I also support your views for the exact > same reason! :) > > Kinda like being caught between a tic & a tight place. > > Until someone has the moxie to file suit on Brown, I afraid > yours and others views are only views & opinions... What is > missing is hard evidence. Whomever did the little hoax is > having his day of giggles. If he &/or she is ever found out... > Well, what go's around comes around. Nothing go's over > the Devils back that does not come under his belly. > > ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:42:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:57:47 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Pamela Klemm writes, about the Linda case: > From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:34:52 -0500 (EST) > I would like to see jpeg copies of the letters distributed to > this group and perhaps we could come up with something. I would > also like to see the picture of Dan that Linda identified from Peter > Jennings Night News. If he is dead, as the book leads me to believe, > then what could it hurt? > And if he is still alive, maybe someone would recognize him. He, > afterall, witnessed everything, the initial alien abduction, the > association of the UN VIP, and the subsequent abductions of Linda by > Richard and himself. I'm all for both of these things. I'm amazed that some of the letters weren't reproduced in the book itself. I've strongly suggested that exercepts be reproduced in IUR, when my review of the case appears. No reason they shouldn't be distributed here. I'll ask Budd if he'll OK that. As for Dan's picture, Budd has been trying to protect Richard, in hopes that he'll come forward, or at least come knocking on Budd's door. Budd worries that if too much is made public, Richard will get in trouble with whatever agency employs him. I don't know about the logic of this. Clearly, Richard's agency knows virtually everything, by now, that Richard has told Budd. (Assuming, of course, that all this is real in the first place.) How much harm would publishing Dan's face do? I'll ask Budd about this, too. I'd love to see Dan's face published here. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Coincidence? From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:49:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:30:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Coincidence? Jerry Washington asks: >From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> >Organization: Kentucky/MUFON >>Does anyone out there > have any thoughts or data regarding the incidence of chance meetings > (multiple witnesses) and UFO encounters? Are such events coincidental, > or more likely an "event sociological," as Francois Truffaut puts it in > "Close Encounters of the Third Kind?" In the latest Journal of UFO Studies, Stuart Appelle, the editor (and a university psychologist) says multiple-witness abductions could provide the most compelling abduction evidence of all. I've never seen statistics, but there are a number of cases on record. John Carpenter encountered one, if I'm not mistaken, involving two people who remembered being abducted together, but only discovered it many years later. And then there are the people Budd Hopkins talks about, who supposedly have been abducted throughout their lives together, and develop a shadowy second life together aboard the alien ships. Supposedly Linda, of the Linda case, and the security agent Richard had such a relationship. Budd mentions some others in his book Witnessed, and I've talked to an experiencer who believes she's had such a relationship, and met the man in real life. Sorry I can't be more specific. Someone should do a detailed roundup of this data, so we could see how much there seems to be in it. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:43:24 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:28:58 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:19:35 -0600 (CST) > > Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:22:27 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > > >> Fudged? Fudged how? > > >By allowing dubious data into the equations. > > >The "correlations" only worked when the UFO data included > > >cases that occurred 6 months prior or after the seismic events, > > >and as much as 700 kilometres away, > > Uh-oh. 400 miles away is probably _way_ too distant, > > but I'd allow up to a 100 miles, maybe 200 miles. JA: Wrong! Anybody hear of the inverse square ratio! If there is an effect that large at such a distance someone--the theorist in this case--will have to demonstrate it. You have fallen in the trap. This is a "theory" is conjecture based on bad science. Allow?.... allow 100 miles? I don't allow anything. Show me! If this effect is there, it is detectable. Good, detect it! > You're more generous that I am; when I presented the TST* > to the rest of the geophysics department, they were amazed > that Persinger was getting away with saying such things. > And, BTW, I showed the TST to Persinger's own thesis advisor, > who agreed that the TST was way off base. > > I'm astounded that the time window is 6 months either way! > > More like 6 _HOURS_ surrounding the total event. Are we > > talking about a series of seismic events spread out over > > time, or clearly isolated-in-time seismic events? > Steve, first of all, if you didn't know what Persinger was claiming, > why were you defending him? :) > That was why I took an in-depth look at the TST in the first place. > Everyone seemed impressed with the *concept* and the *science*, > but when I took a hard look at the methodology, it was full of holes. JA: The theory and the theorist are both suspect. If UFOs are caused by natural lasers, 100 foot diameter long lasting ball lightning, electrified moon-dust, annhilation of antimeter "meteors", or TST, then these explanations not the last step in the process. The theorist would be expected to be beating down the doors at the National Academy of Sciences looking for a multimillion dollar grants to do further studies. However, these little theories are *only* used to debunk a UFO sighting after the fact. This appears to be the theory and theorist's only function. There is no attempt to advance scientific knowledge. If TST exists the way the theorist claims, it could be a possible indication of earthquakes. Considering some of the current rather "far-out" correlations that are being studied (ie the number of lost pet advertisements in the newspaper.); CSICOP and Persinger should be beating the drums to do an UFO-earthquake study. In reality they do not have any such confidence in their theory. If you see a UFO, then the theorist looks on the map and see that somewhere in the last six months there was a sesmic event and explains the event by the two coincidences, this is called something that begins with the letter s, but it ain't science. It's called shamanism. Which is a slight to shamans, and I should apology to them as they have a function in their society. The UFO field is full of the same type of casual linking of coincidences. This fellow in Floida continues to send me his theory about the NSA: there was the mega UFO flap in 1952 and the NSA originated in 1952. The two events occurred in 1952. Presto! The two events are related. Fine, if you want to ignore the political situation at the time, the military in fighting and the bureaucratic stalling that went into the formation of the organization, then this causal relationship works well. Since this fellow looks at all events as ultimately UFO related, it works for him. TST works for CSICOPs. Nobody asks, if the this effects are so prevasive why we don't have people seeing trees outlined in fire, or effects at ground level, balls of light seen it the middle of the city or inside buildings? Why do people feel like they have been abducted only, how about other sencarios? Good grief! > Yes, his "lag" and "lead" time was clearly stated as 6 months. > He would accept as correlated data a magnitude 3 seismic > event 6 months before a nocturnal light observation several > hundred miles away. JA: In the files of UFO organizations there are reports of "earthquake lights" this would seem, in view of the predictive factors mentioned above a fertile field for scientific investigation. However, woe be to the scientist who does such a study and uses UFO sightings. The academic prejurices against UFOs would immediately call any such study into doubt. However, it is okay to use the questionable studies to explain UFOs. I started the "Philosophy of Science" thread in the hopes of generating some ideas on the subject. It quickly degenerated in two branch arguments Faster Than Light Travel and the percentage of unknowns. Both are irrelavent to the study of UFOs. The arguments here and on various newsgroups about whether there is Faster Has Than Light Travel or the possibility of visits from advance civilizations has _nothing_ to do with the study of the ufo phenomenon (a). It has a lot to do with a pet theory: ETH. Ufology is about proponency of a certain belief; it is not about the study of a phenomenon. The percentage of unknowns is a very small side issue. Considering the amount of postings on this rat, you would think it was the main issue. Well, the rat was not only beaten to death there is not even a grease spot left. There was emotional satifaction, but not much advance in ideas. > > Do you know where I can get the raw data? > Oh, yes, that minor little point. He never presented the raw data, only the graphs. [snip] > I think I know which choice I'sd make, based on my investigation > experience. I know how poor are the observing capabilities of most > people, so my own view is that if it smells, tastes and looks like > #$@&, it probably is #$@&. > As for distinguishing between fireballs and airplanes, > that's an easy one. They each have specific characteristics > which are identifiable from witnesses' accounts. I was > including all these IFOs when I noted > the _vast_ majority of UFOs being explainable. > These questions make one thing very clear: investigative > ufology is one field which has been ignored long enough. > It's at the core of all ufological research and theories, > and we need to take a long look at the > basics again (if ufologists ever did at all). JA: There are some minor studies done on this question Human beings are terrible observers. Human being are amazing observers. These two statements are not mutally exclusive. Remember the Barium cloud space shots. What was amazing that almost all accounts of what people saw were the same. Now take an automobile accident. Try to get two accounts that are the same. It is possible that during one portion of the event a poor observer gave a good account of what happened; while a good observer may have missed an important detail. Meteor tracers are able to take a lot of confused and controdictory testimony and come up with a path and find a meteorite. Our task is probably an order of magnitude more difficult. However, I think not impossible. > > Well, it was you good folks up North who first > > (so far as I know) decided > > to back-burner any single-witness short-duration > > sighting by default (as > Not me, baby! To say as some, apparently have, that we should exclude single witness observations because they might be TST is ridiculous. The UFOs _might_ be dust motes floating in the eyes which was a very popular theory for the first three years of the UFO era. _Wrong!_ In the same vein it is said we should exclude NLs. Because they are hard to trace down and are probably "conventional" anyways, just put these reports in the "Too Hard" box. _Wrong, again!_ I _hate_ NLs, they are and always have been DLs to me. However, to exclude them: No. We should be prepared to run screens where pattern searchs are done without one witness sightings and/or without NLs. However, to throw them out because you "feel" they are not relavent is wrong. Since we seem like electrically induced hallunications so much, how about a new theory: drug induced hallucinations. After all, a good part of the population is taking legal or illegal drugs. How about interactions between ordinary drugs and food? How about just the interactions about among foods? Of course, in the early ufo era almost everyone felt compelled to make a statement about their drinking habits. I am sure CISCOP would buy this one too. They're easy. Probably easier than selling tickets on the recue craft that will take away the select away when the world shattering events start to occur. > > On the other hand I'm generally skeptical of explanations that merely sound > > good. How do we know a sighting was a misidentfication of an airplane or a > > star? I've read sighting reports that conclude airplane misidentification > > simply because an airport was less than 50 miles from the event site, yet > > the witness cited they _also_ saw an airplane elsewhere in the sky. > I'd answer: 1) experience; and 2) probability. Also, see above. > Witnesses' observational capabilities are *terrible* in most cases. > I'd be willing to develop a paper on investigative ufology > and present it at some upcoming UFO conference. Of course, > it wouldn't be as big a draw as Linda Howe or Colin Andrews, > so I won't be looking for my plane tickets in the mail just yet. :) Amen! Jan Aldrich *Tectonic Strain Theory
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:35:22 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 11:17:10 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > From: DRudiak@aol.com > Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:03:37 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' David Rudiak wrote: > In a message dated 97-02-02 13:39:36 EST, UpDates posted: > Chris Rutkowski wrote: > >>When we actually look at the NL and DD data, there > >>are very few that appear to be explainable as EM > >>activity. Airplanes and fireballs, maybe, but not EM activity. > John Powell wrote: > >I don't think we know enough about how the human mind responds to magnetic > >fields (generated by geologic activity or not) > >to make that claim just yet. > >We sure don't know enough about fireballs and ball lightning. > I'd like to comment on this, since for several years I was > involved in magnetic stimulation of the visual centers of > the human brain, and wrote two papers on it. Where these papers publish? May we please have the references? > I consider myself one of the experts. [snip] > One colleague of mine wrote a paper in which he tried > stimulating the visual areas of people who had become > blind since birth. He said they reported briefly "seeing" > more complex forms like people's faces, but for reasons > unknown he withdrew the paper. Even if this anecdotal > evidence was true, there has NEVER been any indication > that stimulation of this kind can produce some complex, > prolonged hallucination, much less shared hallucinations > cross individuals. This draft paper, I take it, is not available? As you are probably aware, there are several well known figures in ufology who subscibe to the "Meta conspiracy" of a "controling device" involved in ufology. Mind control is their latest idea. Of course, the CIA and French intelligence are deep in this thing. My problem with some of the mind control advocates is that they are not "kooks", and they have creditials and have recognized research into brain functions. So while I don't like the ideas, they still require a hearing. The advocates talk about drugs, hyponism, and electrical induced simulations as factors in planting incidents in the mind-controled subjects. Ugh! Gives me the willeys. So there were once UFOs, but not today. Now they are mind control hallucinations. Or if you want to get further out, there was this controling device or system or thing or intelligence or whatever that always caused people to see UFOs, but today the intelligence communities are trying to emulate it, also. [They should be so smart!] Thanks. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:49:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:49:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Where is the attribution - how MANY times do I have to ask subscribers to use message headers from the message which is being referred to? ebk _____________________________________________________ From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 10:14:45 cst To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob Shell wrote: >Vince is misinformed on copyright. My "regular job" is as a >photographer and editor of photo magazines. I have done a lot >of research on copyright issues in my job totally unrelated to >anything to do with UFOlogy or Ray Santilli. >Ray (or more precisely Ray's company Orbital Media, Ltd.)owns >copyright to all images in this video. This means that anyone >who publishes any of these images, in any form, without express >consent from Ray is in violation of this copyright. No ifs, ands, >or buts about it. >The last time someone violated copyright on one of my magazine's >images, the photographer sued with our support and collected >$ 156,000 in damages. We did not have to establish that he was >harmed by this publication, but simply that it was done without >permission. Monetary amount was set by the judge based on guidelines >in the law. >I would not recommend being the test case on this one. I'm certain that you would "not recommend being the test case" on this issue since you've proved time and again that you're nothing more than a PR flack for Santilli. In the case of your purported $156,000 judgment, how was this sum arrived at -- other than as a determination of actual (and later, punitive) damages? It would be interesting if you would cite the copyright case you've reported here (plaintiff, defendant, case number, date, state/county jurisdiction). I suspect the particulars are as unverifiable as every other claim you've made in regards to the Santilli AA video. Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Coincidence? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Feb 97 11:01:30 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:55:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Coincidence? >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 02:24:34 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Coincidence? John (and Mac and all), Of course I do not know that Retter was involved in back engineering anything. I just find the DataHand device too close to the panels in the debris footage for comfort. There are many instances of multiple human "inventors" coming up with the same idea at almost precisely the same time, as though the idea was echoing about in the cosmos and these guys all tuned into it at the same time. There are also many instances of inventions/discoveries which were totally useless when first thought up and forgotten, only to be rediscovered/reinvented all over again when an application existed. The transistor comes immediately to mind. Dale Retter may have invented this in a perfectly normal way, but we would be remiss as researchers if we didn't look into it now that we know about it. Having been in the UFO hotseat, I do not envy him what is coming his way!!!! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Feb 97 11:01:25 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:52:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:29:27 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bill, >This is almost too comical. Did Ray realize that the face could be seen >by increasing the brightness or did you discover that? I would like to >know if Ray knew this before or after it was sold to the Japanese and >Bob Kiviat. I've heard somewhere that Bob Kiviat said he was NOT allowed >to screen this specifically because the face could be recognized. Do you >know why the Japanese were allowed to show it and Bob Kiviat wasn't? Ray doesn't know much about film, but he knows video. He, or someone on his staff, realized immediately that the brightness could be cranked up to see Jack's face. Ray says that the Fuji network broadcast the video prematurely due to a misunderstanding. It was not supposed to be aired before some time in May. Kiviat has had permission to use the video for some time, but the networks he has approaced with it have been unimpressed and have not given the go ahead on a new program. That's all I know about this weird part of this weirder story. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Feb 97 11:01:21 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:50:47 -0500 Subject: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:41:53 -0500 >From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, I know you are trying to get this right, so let me help you a bit. The earlier posting from Parascope is so fraught with errors, that I simply do not have time to correct every mis-statement contained in it. At least you seem to be trying to get things right!!!! >The tape was handed over by a man who claimed to be the cameraman's son >and apparently this person also appears briefly on the video tape. I was told the same story initially, about delivery of the tape to Kiviat and Shoefield in NYC, and that the cameraman's son appeared in the video. However, when I saw the video in Ray's office in September, the only person appearing was "Jack" and Ray denied that anyone else had appeared in the video. >An opinion from someone who has seen the video tape, is that the person >on >film has a strong New York accent. I believe it was Philip Mantle who first brought up this accent thing. Philip later admitted to me that he could not distinguish regional American accents. John Purdy, also an Englishman, thought it was a Brooklyn accent, but he is also not intimately familiar with regional American accents. Both of these comments on accent were based on telephone conversations with "Jack" and not on this video. I think I am the only American to hear see and hear the video in full aside from Bob Kiviat. This man's accent is neither Brookly nor New York. It sounds to me like upper midwest accent, with use of some typical New York slang, so probably a midwesterner who spent time in New York, or around a lot of New Yorkers. Jack claimed to have grown up in Los Angeles in the movie community, and this could well fit since so many L.A. people were and are transplanted New Yorkers. The issue of film reels has been talked to death, and I don't choose to comment on this any further at this point. >The "second autopsy" footage released by Santilli is only one of two >such films he has. The other, claimed to be the "first autopsy", was shown >privately to a few people, but has never been released on video. It's >apparently very similar, but features a slightly smaller body, which has >no visible injuries. I have not seen this video, but do have stills from it. My impression is that the body is about the same size. It apparently looks "wrinkled" or "shriveled" unlike the other one. Supposedly this first autopsy was performed on July 1 and the one everyone has seen on July 3. Many of the criticisms of the autopsy which has beens seen lose validity if this chronology is true, since the "appearance that they have done all this before" and are moving too swiftly would make sense if they were simply repeating a procedure done just a few days previously. When I asked Ray why this other autopsy was not released initially since everyone who has seen it says it is better in quality, his response was that it had not been released initially because it was unsuitable for television. He went on to explain that the bulk of this one is of a "gynecology exam" and that the doctor has his "arm inside almost to the elbow" at one point. Removal of a small white spherical object from the "genitals" is also shown in closeup detail in this film. If Ray's description, which agrees with what Mantle and Andrews tell me they saw, is accurate, then it would make no sense from a financial point of view to attempt to sell TV networks something which they could not broadcast. This also argues against the hoax scenario since it would make no sense to produce an expensive hoax knowing in advance that it could not be shown on TV. I am confident that this material will be released to researchers at some point. >Judging from descriptions, Santilli again seems to have most, if not >all, of this film. The film is in the possession of Volker Spielberg. When I visited Santilli in September he said that all film was with Spielberg aside from a certain portion which had been returned to "Jack" as agreed. Ray said he would be happy to show me the first autopsy, but he did not have a copy of it, having sent all copies of the video to Volker. My impression is that Volker is the one pulling the strings. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Things That Make You Go Hmmm - Dames From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:36:24 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:56:53 -0500 Subject: Things That Make You Go Hmmm - Dames >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:57:39 GMT >To: wchace@emory.edu, bill_chace@learnlink.emory.edu, > scott@social-sci.ss.emory >From: Ron Russell <ronr@eco-net.com> (by way of Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net>) >Subject: remote view/Dames/Emory >To Insiders UFOS list: >Remote viewing/ Brown/Dames. >_________________________________________________________ >Hi Erik, >This is from Dan Ward reporting on the man who taught >Courtney Brown some of his remote viewing techniques. >Dames has been in the employ of the CIA and the DOD. >Sweet dreams, RR >Ron... >Did you hear the Art Bell a night or two ago? Ed Dames, >remote viewer, reported that Hale-Bopp has a cylindrical object >affixed to it, containing a biologically engineered plant pathogen, >which will reach Earth in the form of a meteor shower a little >over a year from now. The shower will hit Africa first, and then >spread from there. This will lead to massive food shortages and >starvation in 1998 -- the result being that 80% of Earth's human >population will die in a form of Earth Cleansing. Hale-Bopp has >now become the Wormwood to cleanse the Earth of excessive mankind. >And just when you thought it was safe to go into the water again!! >Pleasant dreams. >Daniel Greetings, Again, please go to: http://www.ameritel.net/lusers/rviewer/joe01.htm and check it out. According to McMoneagle and other sources, Dames was _never_ successfully trained as a remote viewer. After his wash as a RVer, he was utilized as an assistant operations officer! Later, he was supposedly 'trained' by Swann. Please note, I have no information as to any 'natural' abilities which Dames, or Brown may possess. Further, the above has no impact on Dames' military service record. Dames appears to have been a conscientious and dedicated commissioned officer. As for the Hale-Bopp, I refuse to allow anyone's 'whatsit' to influence my decisionmaking. Next, the veracity and viability of the orginial R.V. program is not questionable. The facts were, and continue to be that R.V. is a functional process. The simple fact is that the originial program was allowed to divert from the original design, operational standards and protocols. This has been known to happen with far more mundane fields. Last, is there anyone 'out there' who seriously believes that Uncle Sam doesn't have a current deep black, and better controled RV program. Given the results of the early program, _based on the DOD's own records_, it doesn't take a Brooksmith to figure out what went wrong the first time, and how to prevent it from happening again. Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 3 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Feb 97 11:01:27 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:54:10 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:58:44 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Unless, of course, someone believes the whole thing is a hoax that >Hopkins pulled. Then he, or someone working with him, was planning every >detail like that. Greg, Back in November I spent an evening with Budd, Carol and Frank Turner retracing Frank's aunt's route. We also studied the site under the bridge from which the "third man' and his bodyguards supposedly watched. I think Budd is being honest in this. Not that the event could not be a hoax, but if it is, he is being hoaxed along with everyone who believes the story. BTW, I'm skeptical of the story, but remain open minded. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: Professor Courtney Brown From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Mon, 03 Feb 97 09:02:18 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 01:52:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Professor Courtney Brown > I have had the pleasure of Joe's company and been a guest in his > home. He is the real deal, having been 'put to the test,' > literally hundreds of times. IMHO, Joe is the best, (trained), > Remote Viewer in the world. > Sincerely, > Thomas A. Rice Thomas, Coming from you, that is high praise for Joe McMoneagle's remote viewing capabilities. Rich Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 12:38:14 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 01:53:48 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' (Sorry folks, but this is a good one so I quoted the whole thing) Good arguments in this post... But!... >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >Sent: 2/3/97 8:32 AM >Received: 2/3/97 10:10 AM >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto, updates@globalserve.net >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto, updates@globalserve.net > >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:03:37 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >In a message dated 97-02-02 13:39:36 EST, UpDates posted: > >Chris Rutkowski wrote: > >>>When we actually look at the NL and DD data, there are very few that >>>appear to be explainable as EM activity. Airplanes and fireballs, >>>maybe, but not EM activity. > >John Powell wrote: > >>I don't think we know enough about how the human mind responds to >> >>magnetic >>fields (generated by geologic activity or not) to make that claim just yet. >>We sure don't know enough about fireballs and ball lightning. (Here is where it get's good) David Rudiak replied... >I'd like to comment on this, since for several years I was involved >in magnetic stimulation of the visual centers of the human brain, >and wrote two papers on it. I consider myself one of the experts. > >Not many people are aware of just how powerful the magntic pulses >need to be to get any sort of response out of people -- several >orders of magnetic greater than any known geomagnetic phenomena, >plus extremely brief. For example, to stimulate the visual cortex, >you typically need a magnetic field on the order of 5000 - 10,000 >gauss pulsed for approximately 100 microseconds. (The earth's >magnetic field, for comparison, is less than 0.5 gauss). That's >what is needed to get a sufficiently strong induced voltage and >current in the brain to get any sort of response at all. Depends. Did you ever try keeping the electrolyte under control? This is a very important function as to how 'sensitivity' of the organs come into play, and that includes the brain. For instance; iron, cobalt etc. can and do react even to the minute magnetic fields, the earth too. Ask any migrating bird or bacteria. >Moreover the responses are extremely gross, mostly flashes of light, >and only about half the subjects we used experienced even those. It >turned out to be extremely difficult to stimulate the brains sensory >areas, in fact most experiments with magnetic stimulators use them to >*suppress* brain function, not stimulate it. > >One colleague of mine wrote a paper in which he tried stimulating the >visual areas of people who had become blind since birth. He said they >reported briefly "seeing" more complex forms like people's faces, but >for reasons unknown he withdrew the paper. Even if this anecdotal >evidence was true, there has NEVER been any indication that stimulation >of this kind can produce some complex, prolonged hallucination, much >less shared hallucinations across individuals. The whole idea is >preposterous. Gross electrical stimulation like this, say from >lightning bolts or electroconvulsive therapy, scrambles peoples >minds. It doesn't produce delicate hallucinations with a complete >story line. If that were true, hundreds of people every day having >MRI scans in magnetic fields of 20,000 gauss, would be hallucinating >alien abductions all over the place. You have that nailed down pretty good and I agree with your thesis. However... :) gotta push on ya a little bit to see what you think of resonance, especially that which (I conjecture here) is field influenced. With some electrolyte (I should know?) which bonds into the dendrite structure, may on magnetic interaction convert such motional field energies into electrochemical stimulus. It would seem to me that such could be given the myriad of interpretation as the brain attempts to ascertain the meaning to the stimulus. >This whole line of thought of inducing complex hallucinations came >originally from the work of neurosurgeon Wilder Penfield, who during >brain surgery, *with the brain exposed* and using electrodes which >stimulated *tiny isolated portions of the brain* said that his >patients sometimes experienced complex hallucinations, including >what seemed to be long forgotten memories from their past, which >played back like movies. But this is an entirely different >situation from some hypothetical, geomagnetic phenomena, which >would have to be vastly more powerful than anything seen before >and would affect the entire brain and body, not some isolated area. > >I might add to this, that the motor nerves are much larger than the >sensory ones, and far easier to stimulate. The person would be >thrown into violent convulsions by such a field long before the >sensory system would respond. I don't recall that being a part of >the alien abduction scenario or incidents like Fatima, also >supposedly "explained" by this geomagnetic theory. > >David Rudiak Also it should be noted that throughout the brain are embedded representative cells for all senses. In other words, for example, in the seeing part of the brain are representative cells from hearing, smelling, touching, taste, and all these are in effect filters which lead into memory. So, if you see something and that something has been experienced before and is known about, then information on that something is relayed to the conscious zone along with the realtime visual data. What it should smell like, what it feels like, what it tastes like, what it sounds like. If any filter should fail then the brain sets up several modes, mainly investigation and filters about what to expect and do. Look closer or run like hell. *IF* (and I believe this to be true) Aliens can and do interfere with the mind, then that is by some physical process. That we don't (as yet) fully understand how they do this should in no wise stop us from pursuing any and all possibilities. Again, another 'if'... If it turns out that aliens are NOT doing things in our best interest, then it would be quite prudent of us to isolate and understand all these things... for it may be that these would possibly be the only weapons we have at our disposal to defeat them. ~Pat~ ... Language, like orange juice, can be concentrated and yet remain 100% pure. ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://www.republic.net/~pparri/STUDIES http://pwp.value.net/ufomus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Feb 97 13:31:36 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 01:54:52 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:07:45 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript Rebecca, When I was talking about the man on the video having a NY accent, this was quoting from Mike Hesemann after he saw the video with Ray. After I saw it, I spoke to Mike and said that it WAS NOT a NYC accent. Mike agreed that he doesn't know American accents. So, everyone who called it a New York accent was a foreigner, who would not know American regional accents and dialects. Sounds midwest to me, most likely Ohio. Cameraman's son lives there, we are told, to it makes sense. I could not detect eye color in the video Ray showed me, so I think comments on eye color must be considered speculative. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Feb 97 19:21:47 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 01:55:57 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:58:39 -0500 >From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Autopsy Cameraman' Interview Transcript >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James wrote; >The opinion I referred to was mentioned last August by Bob Shell; >"The man on the video is described as elderly, quite fat, blue eyes, >"hamster faced", strong New York accent". He was describing Mickey Mouse, obviously. James Diss,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: Coincidence?? From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 19:26:20 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 01:58:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Coincidence?? >Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:20:53 -0500 >From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> >Organization: Kentucky/MUFON >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Coincidence?? >Hey Guys! Got a question I'd like to pose to your subscribers... >During a recent interview with Mona Stafford, one of the so-called >"Ladies of Liberty," she mentioned how odd it was that she should be >abducted with Louise Smith, a woman that she barely knew and never >socialized with before. Causing me to reflect on my own close >encounter, which occurred while I was with a fellow I'd never >"hung-out" with before either; unlike the Betty and Barney Hill case >and/or the Allagash abduction, for instance. Which leads me to ask: >Does anyone out there have any thoughts or data regarding the >incidence of chance meetings (multiple witnesses) and UFO encounters? >Are such events coincidental, or more likely an "event sociological," >as Francois Truffaut puts it in "Close Encounters of the Third Kind?" It has been my experience to meet people in various places around the continent with whom I had contact in abduction scenarios. I have only met a few of the many people I have conscious memory of interacting with aboard various craft. Most of the time, I have had accurate recollections of the faces and or names of the people I have met in extraordinary circumstances. I have made some mistakes, although there is some sort of recognition that enables both myself and the other person to greet each other in a way that is conducive to familiarity. Usually accompanied by surprise and warm feelings of close regard, these meetings have been rare circumstantial events. Most of the abduction scenarios involve the gathering of groups or teams of people from locations in a large demographic area. One of the clearly defined areas just happens to be the North American continent. Within a short time frame, a group of people can be gathered aboard a craft and be off to a rendezvous. Most of the missions of gathering are arranged as a matter of convenience to all concerned. Some teams are gathered in the early hours of the morning, others are taken in the afternoon and or the evening. Most of the people involved are cued to find an excuse or circumstances that will allow their absence to be unnoticed. I travel a lot for my own personal reasons and to meet people I wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity to meet. My career and lifestyle is highly irregular to allow the freedom of my personal dictates. I can meet a person and spend as much time as necessary to talk or to go to other places. I try to be as flexible as possible in my travels to 'lend a hand' to the convenience of others who may not be as mobile. I have found that social circumstances are a valid factor in the chance meetings of people who have had similar experiences. While social status does not have any bearing at all during an abduction scenario, the social structures do tend to keep people grouped. Not often does a prince meet a pauper who has been a member of the same group gathered aboard the same craft, although the event could possibly occur. When the topic of the alien presence is raised, always be careful. I cannot stress the fact enough that no matter what we humans think or do, THEY are not fooled by our silly antics. THEY are the ones who know all there is to know, and THEY are the ones making the plans. People just don't know the extent of the capabilities of the Alien Presence. As for all of the liars, hoaxers and so on, they will have to answer for their actions. Sure, it helps to separate fact from fiction, but it does not condone inappropriate actions. Take care for now, Cathy [Johnson]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: Coincidence? From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 02:51:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 02:53:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Coincidence? >Date: 03 Feb 97 11:01:30 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Coincidence? >>Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 02:24:34 -0500 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Coincidence? =============================== Response to Bob Shell, JV =============================== Bob wrote, >John (and Mac and all), > >Of course I do not know that Retter was involved in back >engineering anything. I just find the DataHand device too >close to the panels in the debris footage for comfort. There >are many instances of multiple human "inventors" coming up >with the same idea at almost precisely the same time, as though >the idea was echoing about in the cosmos and these guys all >tuned into it at the same time. Shades of, "The Hundredth Monkey"! <G> >Dale Retter may have invented this in a perfectly normal way, >but we would be remiss as researchers if we didn't look into it >now that we know about it. Agreed, I was only empathizing with the poor bastard because he probably knows nothing about UFO's or the sting of the inquiry that is highballin' it his way. <G> >Having been in the UFO hotseat, I do not envy him what is coming his >way!!!! I too am a brother of, "The Order of the Charred Tusch." I was only trying to give Retter his dues, which is the benefit of the doubt. I agree Bob that this [is] an important lead, and should be followed up. I just didn't think it was fair to "assume" a _direct_ connection between Retter's Datahand and the Santilli wreckage. The thread was taking on that tone so I threw in my tuppence [before] the hounds were loosed! Retter's about to find out what it feels like to be wearing Milkbone underwear in a dog eat dog world! <G> Good luck in your hunt. Please keep us all posted as to progress if you will. And all "good" Catholics should say a Novina for the passing of Mr Retters age of innocence. Until now, he probably thought that the [Cosmos] was the pinnultimate of cold and unforgiving places. Welcome to,"THE WEB" Mr Retter! <insert science fiction theramin wail here: oooeeeeahhooo! > John Velez ;-) ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs 3/3 From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:36:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:41:13 -0500 Subject: In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs 3/3 Part three of Mr. Oberg's original essay, which appeared in May 1996, is reprinted from "Errol Bruce-Knapp: UFO UpDates - Toronto". Orginally posted on UFO Updates by Dean Kanipe, Area 51 Research Center.(Formatted BBS compatible) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 00:47:24 -0400 To: ebk@nobelmed.com From: Errol Bruce-Knapp <ebk@nobelmed.com> Subject: UFO UpDate: In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs incident, and probably permanently. Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 16 A careful reading of his previous testimony indicates that he had ascribed no ominous motives to what he honestly thought had been a "disappearance" of the film. Instead, he had testified, the UFO-related material had probably been gathered together in a storage room and just forgotten. As for deliberate cover-ups, he has always disputed such a notion. "If any UFO information is being suppressed," he told OMNI, =7F"it's certainly not by the U.S.. Air Force, because I was at a high enough level to know about it." That's just the opposite of how many "UFO promoters" portray his feelings.. As to the accuracy of the rest of Cooper's recollection of the "Edwards UFO", eyewitness Gettys had this to say in 1982: "I am amazed that Gordon Cooper said the object landed -- as far as I know, he never even saw it.... His story sounds kind of funny to me." And Gettys -- who still does not believe the '"weather balloon" explanation -- was there; Cooper, contrary to legend, played no role at all.. Whatever the true identity of the 1957 Edwards AFB "balloon/UFO", it is clear that the "Cooper UFO legend" is quite inaccurate here. No coverup or information loss was involved. The "UFO" never landed. Cooper had nothing to do with the incident (he was not connected with the film crew in any official capacity, and they had never heard of him) but was only an accidental bystander. But as a certified hero, his persona has been exploited by others who spread the legend for excitement, for ego, of for profit. That's a theme that far predates the space age! THE THIRD HUNT The most sensational UFO encounter of his life happened to Cooper while he was a fighter pilot in Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 17 Germany in the early 1950s. "Hundreds of UFOs" flew over his airbase near Munich over a two-day period.. In the 1976 production of the long-playing record of UFO-related testimony, Cooper gave the following description of the incident: "A weatherman spotted some strange objects flying apparently fairly high altitude with some large binoculars while tracking a weather balloon, and reported, and before long the entire fighter group was out peering through binoculars at these groups of objects coming over, all heading generally from easterly to westerly direction, and all in very strange patterns resembling fighter formations. But unlike fighters they would stop, almost stop in forward velocity and change ninety degrees sometimes in their flight path. And within the next two or three days we had practically all the fighters we could muster on the base up flying as high as they would climb with guys with binoculars still trying to spot these strange devices flying overhead. We never could get close enough really to pin them dawn but they were round in shape and very metallic looking.". A year later, during an interview with Spiegel for OMNI, Cooper elaborated: "They were large groups of metallic saucer-shaped vehicles at great altitudes coming over in flier [sic?] formation in various sized numbers and for the greater part of two days these kept coming by. They were in fingertip formation, flights would cross under, back and forth, just the same kind of formations we used in fighter groups. They had the capability of changing directions a little faster than a typical fighter would, stopping, rapid starting, changing directions....". Another interview in the "National Enquirer" (March 28,1978) gave additional details: "I spent two days trying to get to them. We got as high an altitude as we could, and they were still well above us. Probably twenty or thirty planes, at least, went up after them. F-84 and Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 18 F-86 jets, fairly high-speed jets. The UFOs came over in groups of four, twelve, sixteen, twenty. They came over regularly, at intervals, all day long for two days. They came right over the air base. We could only get to about 45,000 feet, but we did get close enough to see what they looked like. They were actually shaped like saucers. we had no idea whether they were looking at us, or what they were doing. And after two days they simply disappeared.". A search for primary sources was bound to be difficult. The incident was in 1951 (according to Cooper's UN letter in 1978), probably in the summertime. The location was Neubiberg Air Force Base, in a suburb of Munich. The unit was the 525th Fighter Squadron of the 86th Fighter Wing, which was assigned to Europe between 1947 and 1952. Since there were about twenty five aircraft per squadron and the 525th shared the base with the 526th and the 527th, there might have been upwards of a hundred additional witnesses involved, not to mention the inhabitants of the large city nearby.. In 1979 I wrote to contacts in Munich and received a negative reply: "Neither the Munich newspapers nor the police records of that period give any mention of the case", wrote Wolfgang Kuchler of "P.M." magazine. An inquiry to the Albert F. Simpson Historical Research Center at Maxwe11 Air Force Base in Montgomery, Alabama, obtained the declassified unit history records for the 86th for the period in question -- and there was no mention of anything remotely similar to Cooper's description.. As a last stab in the dark, I wrote to several Air Force related publications with a request for general information (such publications have special columns for people doing historical research, seeking contact with missing former buddies, or organizing unit reunions). Months passed with no further results. Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 19 A year went by. Then the break came: a letter from John Bonner in Los Angeles, who had flown with Cooper. He had been looking through an old pile of "Air Force" magazines and spotted my letter in the February 1980 issue. On March 10, 1981, he wrote: "Once, while in a large group formation, I spotted a large number of objects very high above us. I do not think anyone had a chance to climb up to investigate that time. Another time on a Sunday morning two of us were scrambled to intercept a large number of objects coming in from the east. We did not intercept these as they turned back before we got there." In a second letter two months later, in discussing the first sighting, he added, "I felt they were not balloons, stars or debris. I was suspicious of the Soviets. I guess I could not rationalize to myself what I saw." Bonner's descriptions did not tally with Cooper's at all, but he did provide another lead: a unit reunion for the 86th was planned for that very summer in San Antonio.. I immediately contacted the organizers and discussed my research. None of the people could recall the incident but they promised to ask around. On June 5-7, 1981, more than a hundred pilots gathered for the party (many of them had left Neubiberg before, or had arrived after, the date of Cooper's incident). On August 3 I called Colonel "Swede" Larson, the reunion chairman, and asked about my favorite topic. His reply was negative: ~I talked to a few people who might have known, and they couldn't recall the incident. I was there then, and I was a flight commander, but I don't remember anything either.". As a last effort, I wrote letters to two dozen people whose names were listed in a special directory published by the reunion committee and who had been contemporaries of Cooper in the 525th. The directory also contained a reprint of the December 1950 base phone book; recalling Cooper's comment that it had been a weatherman Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 20 who first spotted the objects, I wrote off to every member of the base meteorological staff whose names were listed in that phone book, too. My letters went out across the country and beyond to Guam, Israel, Paraguay, and wherever the veterans of the 86th had dispersed.. The answers trickled in over the passing weeks. Nobody knew what "Coop", as they called their former flying buddy, was talking about (along with frequent testimonials to his honesty and integrity, which have never been in doubt). "I never experienced such sightings," wrote one. "If I had it would be indelibly inscribed in my memory, and I'd be happy to share any such recollections with you." Another former Air Force pilot who later entered the priesthood and became a state bishop wrote, "I recall nothing about any UFOs.... As to what Gordon Cooper saw, I have not the slightest idea." Another: "Absolutely no recall of any such incident.". One wrote: "I was at Neubiberg Air Base from July 1950 to July 1953 as Weather Officer and Detachment Commander. During this time I did not make any unusual sightings that could not be explained as light reflecting from a high-flying weather balloon, or as a lenticular cloud group over the mountains". Another pilot wrote: "I do NOT recall any comments that Gordon Cooper made concerning UFOs -- I was his squadron commander sometime in '51, then got the 86th Fighter Group later, and I never recall even hearing anything along that line.... I'm sure if these UFOs had become a serious subject during my almost 5 years at Neubiberg, I would have remembered something -- and I flew most every day during all those years.". Other veterans of Cooper's unit concurred. "I was a pilot and weather officer at Neubiberg 1948 thru 1951, but I can't recall any reports of these sightings," wrote one. Another pilot, a retired brigadier general, wrote: "No, I am not aware of any UFO sightings. I'm fairly Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 21 certain that I would have heard about it." Another: "I was at that time 'A' flight commander and was therefore 'in the know' of most of the flying activities in that area. I flew at least 25 hours each month. The flying saucer report made reference to by Cooper is unknown to me." Another: "I never heard mention of it before. At that time I was Wing Communications Officer .... If true it was one of the best kept secrets!" The base weather officer at the time wrote: "I draw a complete blank: can remember no facts, no discussions -- in fact, not even a rumor." And another Neubiberg veteran flier had absolutely no recall of any such incident.". In all, a total of more than a dozen men had responded to my letter (including commanding officers and weather officers) : their opinions were unanimous that no such event had occurred at Neubiberg.. Cooper, in his first interview with Spiegel for the "Credibility Factor" record, had made a possibly relevant comment. When asked if it hadn't been exciting to return from the UFO chases and compare notes with his fellow pilots, Cooper had replied cautiously, "Yeah, it was [but]] I'm not sure we really ever realized the impact of it, at that point in time, really." What Cooper seemed to be saying was that the incident itself seemed hardly memorable when it happened, which would explain why no other witness could remember it thirty years later. But if so, one is forced to ask how accurate can Cooper's own memory be under the same circumstances?. One more comparison is possible, thanks to yet another freak stroke of luck. During an idle luncheon conversation late in 1982 (four years after I had become interested in researching the case), the talk turned to the topic of UFOs. One retired NASA engineer began to regale his table with an account of UFOs seen by his friend Gordon Cooper (I was at the table, and hadn't even initiated that topic -- what an extraordinary Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 22 coincidence!). All the familiar elements came out, including the "fleets" over several days, the inability of the jets to reach them, and the bafflement and frustration of all the pilots. But two new factors appeared: first, the event was supposed to have happened in the "American Middle West" [later clarified to mean the Rocky Mountains or New Mexico, but NOT California or the "Midwest"], and second, there had been an official explanation provided for the UFOs, an explanation which the pilots had rejected: seed pods. My story teller recounted Cooper's reaction to this explanation: "Seed pods at 50,000 feet!", he described Cooper snorting with derision. This account was based on a conversation which took place at the NASA installation on Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, in late 1963, more than a decade before Cooper publicly referred to his UFO experiences. But is THIS version of the account accurate? That question remains open, but at least it shows that Cooper was telling some sort of UFO story privately for years. The account also suggests that Cooper's story has undergone considerable evolution over the years, as well. So the "fleets of UFOs" story must remain "unsolved", in large part because the story's reliability must be judged highly questionable. The popular version of the legend, placing the action in Germany in 1951, simply cannot have occurred as Cooper has described it -- if the vast majority of the witnesses are to be believed. HINDSIGHTS & INSIGHTS What can be learned about the UFO world from Cooper's association with and exploitation by it? Several interesting and uncomplimentary conclusions can be reached. Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 23 Through it all, Cooper's behavior has been exemplary. He has been candid in his feelings and curious about UFOs and other topics generally considered "far out", but he has every right to such interests. This candor and cooperation has been met with exploitation and misrepresentation from UFO promoters and publicists. From Beckley's "Hangar 18" fantasies to the Columbia Pictures Industries false advertisements to Dr. Hynek's explicit endorsements , Cooper has found himself on the receiving end of frauds and fabrications attached to his name. His usefulness to UFO proponents is based on his honest advocacy of serious UFO research (a desire shared by many serious researchers in the field, including myself) and on the UFO stories associated, not always accurately as we have seen, with his name. The image appeared good -- all the more reason for UFO promoters to carefully avoid checking up on the UFO incidents even though (if they paused to think about it) their past experiences would have warned them that Cooper's decades- old recollections were quite probably (better than 90%) based on prosaic, explainable stimuli. But solving the cases was the last thing the UFO promoters were interested in. People who have used Cooper's stories to "prove" the reality of UFOs (respected ufologists such as Frank Edwards, Leonard Stringfield, J. Allen Hynek, and less respected ones such as Timothy Beckley) seem to have neither known nor really cared about the real truth behind the stories. Their goal evidently was to piggyback on Cooper's reputation to further their own ufological careers, not to take the opportunity to see what Cooper's actual experiences could teach them about the real UFO phenomenon. The truth behind Cooper's stories was the last thing that seemed to interest them. [Ufologists | James Oberg | Style ] =A9 Copyright James Oberg. All rights reserved. HTML by Area 51 Research Center, PO Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001. Document created: 01/03/96 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: A manual for sceptic militants! From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:36:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:42:35 -0500 Subject: Re: A manual for sceptic militants! "For distribution ... BBS adapted" >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:14:08 +0100 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> >Subject: A manual for sceptic militants! >Forwarded from a post in the newsgroup sci.sceptic : >- forwarded message - >Pierre-Normand Houle >pnhoule@aei.ca >Hi, >I'm a member of Quebec's skeptics association (Les Sceptiques du >Qu=E9bec) affiliated to the SCICOP. ....snip.... >Any other idea on what a skeptic should know ? - - - - - JC: Dear Sir, Your English is quite excellent. I wish my French was as good. Perhaps you would be so kind as to translate the following into French for other members of "Les Sceptiques du Qu=E9bec." James Oberg, NASA, had written an essay titled (In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs.1-3) which challenged Gordon Cooper's statements regarding UFOs and derided various other UFO researchers. The reply to it (Oberg/Cooper rebuttals.1-7), can be considered a manual and, most definitely, something every skeptic should know. Since you asked, I'll be happy to post both his essay and that reply. If you miss any portions of this, it will be archived on the web at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates Cordially looking forward to your future response regarding same. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs 1/3 From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:36:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:38:10 -0500 Subject: In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs 1/3 Part one of Mr. Oberg's original essay, which appeared in May 1996, is reprinted from 'Errol Bruce-Knapp: UFO UpDates - Toronto'. It contained the following header from Dean Kanipe. (Formatted BBS compatible) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Area51www@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:55:57 -0400 To: ebk@nobelmed.com Subject: IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs c James Oberg The attached file is an article written by James Oberg concerning Gordon Cooper's UFO reports. It consists of original research by James and addresses several important points seemingly ignored elsewhere. I submit the file solely for the purpose of providing information to the current discussion on Mr. Cooper. There may be some typos from the scanning, and I request that those be overlooked. I am not responsible for the content of the article, so please do not send comments to me. Those should be directed to the author. Sincerely, Dean Kanipe Area51www@aol.com Webmaster Area 51 Research Center http://www.ufomind.com =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs =A9 James Oberg The commercialization of astronauts has certainly been extensive, but one bizarre attempt reached astronomical heights. During the publicity blitz for Columbia Pictures' "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", toy UFO aliens appeared in stores around the world. A plastic model called "Authentic Bendable Extra Terrestrial Figure" even today sits on my desk, his (its?) right hand altered with glue to present the middle finger defiantly in my direction. On the back of the cardboard wrapper originally containing the "authentic" (whatever that meant!) alien was a sensational quotation from two-time space veteran Gordon Cooper. The passage read: "Intelligent beings from other planets regularly visit our world in an effort to enter into contact with us. NASA and the American government know this and possess a great deal of evidence. Nevertheless, they remain silent in order not to alarm people. I am dedicated to forcing the authorities to end their silence." Now, astronauts (or cosmonauts, for that matter) are not known to be frequent visitors at the United Nations. When they do came, it is usually to discuss their own space vehicles. But in March 1978, the same Gordon Cooper addressed a UN committee on somebody else's space vehicles: aliens from space were flying to Earth on exploration voyages of their own. The ex-astronaut declared that since it was a planet-wide problem it demanded international attention. The United Nations maintained a stoic, even embarrassed silence, nonetheless. Part of Cooper's problem might have been that he was visiting under the auspices of the then dictator of Grenada, the madcap "Sir" Eric Gairy. Gairy's excesses and crackpottery, added to his alleged corruption and brutality at home, Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p.1 later led to the New Jewel coup-d'=DAtat led by Maurice Bishop, and indirectly to the US intervention five years later. Since his retirement from the space program two decades ago, Cooper (now in his 60's and an engineering consultant in Los Angeles) has become an outspoken advocate of the reality of UFOs. Personal experiences with UFOs contribute to Cooper's authority as a commentator on the controversial topic. His experiences have literally become legend.... Persistent accounts in some leading UFO books describe a UFO encounter with Cooper's Mercury-9 space capsule in May 1963. In addition, Cooper himself has talked about the disappearance of photographic evidence for a UFO landing at an Air Force Base in California where he had served prior to being picked for spaceflight. And most spectacular of all is his account of "fleets of UFOs" soaring over his Air Force base in Germany, where he began his pilot career in the early 1950s. Clearly, Cooper is a very experienced UFO witness, and a very persuasive one. Cooper has been quite outspoken about his evaluation of the UFO phenomenon. As early as 1974 (three years after he left NASA) he was being quoted as saying, "People have seen flying saucers at close hand. And in many cases they have been verified on radar. It is ridiculous for anyone to say that they're all completely unreal." In a letter to the United Nations on occasion of the November 27, 1978 discussion of UFOs, Cooper wrote believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on earth." Earlier that same year, Cooper had been on latenight TV's Merv Griffin Show (April 10,1978) when the question Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 2 of UFOs came up. Griffin asked Cooper if he thought any extraterrestrial visitors had "ever been here", and Cooper was explicit in his answer: "Yes, I think they have and are here regularly." Griffin pushed into an even more sensational area: "There is a story going around, Gordon, that a spaceship did land in middle America, and that there were occupants and that members of our government were able to keep one alive for a period of time.... Is that a credible story?" Again, Cooper didn't waffle. ~I think it's fairly credible," he replied candidly, "Apparently from everyone who has been abducted or who's had contact with UFOs, they seem to agree that the occupants are really not that different from what we are." "I would like to see the time when all qualified people not trying to make a dollar selling some weird and way-out stories could really work together," Cooper told Griffin, "to really properly investigate these types of stories and either refute them or prove them.... I'm rather interested in maybe eventually in the near future putting together a few people of science and engineering, and so on, to properly investigate this type of thing." Later, in an interview in OMNI magazine (March 1980), he described his preferred research strategy: I=D5m not really of the school that feels you should go back historically and correlate all the sightings. I think we'll probably find out more by looking harder now and in the future." Elaborating, he also declared, "Very likely we'll find out about them sooner or later, but probably not just by analyzing past sightings." "I've always been honest about my views on this subject," he added. "Because the astronauts have been so badly misquoted by irresponsible journalists, it's up to each of us to say what he believes in." Perhaps related to Cooper's complaint about irresponsible journalists, a particularly amazing claim Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 3 was described by paranormal publicist Timothy Beckley in 1980. Citing an interview in the "National Enquirer", Beckley claims that Cooper has revealed that, "There are those connected with our space agency -- NASA -- who (allegedly quoting Cooper) 'have had contact with the creatures on board UFOs', apparently right here on Earth." Beckley publishes several newspapers and magazines, and regularly advertises in the weekly grocery store tabloids. Cooper's quotation about NASA's "UFO secrets", printed on the back of Columbia Pictures Productions' "alien figure", received widespread circulation. The quotation was subsequently reprinted widely, including in Margaret Sachs' "UFO Encyclopedia" (Perigee Books, G. P. Putnam, 1980), and in an article in the September 30, 1980 issue of the tabloid newspaper "The Star", published under the by-line of America's most respected ufologist, astronomy professor Dr. J. Allen Hynek. Hynek later admitted he had made a mistake in allowing the newspaper to compile the article from his previous publications while paying him a fee for the use of his name as author -- since he hadn't reviewed the written material prior to publication. Such are the perils of UFO journalism. Cooper, too, was being victimized. That statement attributed to him was finally too much for ex-astronaut Cooper. In August 1978 he filed suit against Columbia Pictures Industries for false use of his name. The suit sought two million dollars in damages and a "fair percentage of the profits, totaling not less than $750,000, for the use of his name and reputation. Part of the problem was that the quotation, according to Cooper, was entirely counterfeit: "The quotation attributed to me by Columbia Pictures is entirely a fabrication", he wrote in 1978, calling it fakery". Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 4 Yet in 1980 when a new version of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" was released, Columbia Pictures used the same counterfeit quotation again in its promotional literature! And the lawsuit disappeared into the bowels of L.A. law courts, its resolution never disclosed by either party. Despite his often involuntary association with such activities, the quality of Cooper's testimony has been universally recognized. His integrity, intelligence, and technical competence have never been questioned. If a man like Gordon Cooper, a veteran of travel through outer space, can believe in UFOs and can publicly testify to that effect, ordinary citizens are bound to conclude that there must really be something to the subject after all. Indeed, anyone who ventures to raise questions about the validity of Cooper's UFO experiences runs the risk of appearing to want to smear a genuine American hero with the cinema-certified "Right Stuff" or UFO proponents, Cooper's accounts were too useful to risk solution; for UFO skeptics, Cooper's personal prestige called into doubt the practical value of such research (who wants to look like an unpatriotic iconoclast?). Besides, the stories deal with events several decades in the past, and experience has repeatedly taught the frustrations of attempting to track down clues and leads across such a span of memory-benumbing and records-losing decades. But the Cooper incidents kept being flaunted in pro- UFO tracts, while the failure of skeptics to "explain" such authoritative and impressive testimony was portrayed as almost an admission of intellectual incapacity. I kept running into the same questions at lectures and seminars. The "UFO Bulletin" of APRO, a leading American flying saucer group, repeated the challenge in 1981, and editor Gordon Creighton of Britain's "Flying Saucer Review" made the same challenge over a radio debate in 1982. A recent Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 5 major UFO book by Timothy Good ("Above TOP SECRET") endorsed the cases again. The challenge has appeared in OMNI magazine and in tiny UFO newsletters, in letters and private conversations: "If you skeptics are so smart, how come you can't explain Gordon Cooper's UFOs?" In late 1982, Dr. J. Allen Hynek blasted the British Broadcasting Corporation for its production of "The Case of the UFOs" (aired in the US on NOVA in October 1982) for avoiding any mention of Gordon Cooper's UFO experiences, which Hynek clearly portrayed as genuine and unsolvable. As recently as January 1, 1990, the "Current Affair" tele- tabloid show referred to Cooper's accounts of chasing UFOs in his jet. I, too, had been interested in researching these stories. Could the Cooper UFOs be accounted for in terms of prosaic phenomena? Were Cooper's published recollections of the incidents, often after decades of hindsight, reasonably accurate? Were there any lessons about contemporary UFO research standards which an analysis of the Cooper cases could define? Those were questions well worth asking. Those were answers well worth seeking. THE FIRST HUNT The most famous UFO associated with Cooper's name reportedly occurred on the Mercury-9 space flight in 1963. By 1967, Frank Edwards gave these details of the event (in Flying Saucers -- Here and Now!, Lyle Stuart, New York). To the question, "Who was the first astronaut to see a UFO in orbit?", Edwards responded: "On the record it was Major Gordon Cooper, over Muchea Tracking Station near Perth Australia, on his final orbit of Earth Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 6 on a night in May of 1963. The object which approached him was also seen by the two hundred persons at the tracking station. It was reported twice on the NBC radio network before Cooper had been picked up by the rescue craft. He was not permitted to comment on it." Other details appeared in Is Something Up There (Dale White, Scholastic Book Services, Doubleday, 1968): "The astronaut radioed the tracking station that he had sighted a greenish object moving east to west. This is contrary to the orbits taken by man-made satellites. Nearly one hundred persons, some of them technicians, saw the UFO appear on the Australian radar." The story spread as years passed. In 1973, ufologist George D. Fawcett was writing: "The UFO... was seen, recorded and tracked by the Muchea, Australia, tracking station, where hundreds of technicians and newsmen saw and heard the reports. This was good enough for the experts Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Dr. Jacques Vallee, who (as mentioned earlier) used Fawcett's data (unverified) in their book Edge of Reality as follows: "Gordon Cooper reported a greenish UFO with a red tail during his fifteenth orbit. He also reported other mysterious sightings over South America and Australia. The object he sighted over Perth, Australia, was caught on screens by ground tracking stations." In 1977, Leonard Stringfield's book "Situation Red - - The UFO Siege!" (Fawcett Crest) reported further details: "According to a reliable and well-informed Australian businessman who visited my home in October 1975, a luminous green UFO with a red tail, witnessed by hundreds of Australians, flew in the opposite direction to Cooper's spacecraft. During the UFO's overflight, he learned from a military source that it caused an electrical outage at the Dry Creek Tracking Station and at the rocket range in Woomera, including a blotting out of radar. The low-level, football-shaped UFO was also Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 7 witnessed by Australian scientists, and cameramen took sixteen thousand feet of color movie film of the object. My informant told me that he learned from a military source that the film was sent to Washington, D.C., for evaluation. No jet interceptors were scrambled, because the military feared they might be affected by the powerful force field created by the UFO". Stringfield added that Cooper denied reports "he had seen the UFO during his overflight of Australia". What purported to be an actual transcript of the astronaut's description of his UFO encounter was published by UFO author Dan Wilson about the same time, in his book Our Mysterious Spaceship Moon (Dell, 1976, -- his editor, James Frenkel, assured me that "all the references are checked, within reason", and that Dell lawyers had reviewed the manuscript and determined there was nothing libelous in it). Wilson wrote, "Cooper described the object as being of 'good size', and claimed, 'It was higher than I was. It wasn't even in the vicinity of the horizon..." This is indicated that the bogey (NASA's slang term for UFOs) was not a star or other object, either natural or manmade". "The important thing to remember," continued Wilson," is that the incident was seen by all those present at the Muchea Tracking Station. And this included civilian observers as well as newsmen. In fact the entire incident was reported to the world at the time by NBC News. So something was seen out there -- not fabricated by a UFO writer." This story must be unraveled in reverse order to the way it developed. Wilson's alleged quotation can be checked first, because he
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs 2/3 From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:36:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:39:44 -0500 Subject: In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs 2/3 Part two of Mr. Oberg's original essay, which appeared in May 1996, is reprinted from "Errol Bruce-Knapp: UFO UpDates - Toronto". Orginally posted on UFO Updates by Dean Kanipe, Area 51 Research Center.(Formatted BBS compatible) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X-Sender: ebk@nobelmed.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 00:47:24 -0400 To: ebk@nobelmed.com From: Errol Bruce-Knapp <ebk@nobelmed.com> Subject: UFO UpDate: In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs footnoted the source. What was actually happening was that on his third orbit, five hours into the flight, Cooper was describing auroral activity ("Northern Lights"). He reported, "Right now I can make out a lot of luminous activity in an easterly Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 8 direction. I wouldn't say it was much like a layer. It wasn't distinct and it didn't last long, but it was higher than I was. It wasn't even in the vicinity of the horizon and was not well defined. A good size -- it was a good sized area. It was very indistinct in shape. It was a faint glow with a reddish-brown cast." And whatever it was, it wasn't a UFO, as Wilson's doctored excerpt of the transcripts would otherwise lead trusting readers to conclude. In an OMNI interview published in March 1980, Cooper was asked about the reports of astronauts seeing UFOs in space. He replied, "It got so bad that there were deliberately falsified tapes of communications with the astronauts, where UFO material was simply edited in." Cooper explicitly denied that there had been UFO sightings on his two flights. In a 1978 letter to me, Cooper stressed "the non-occurrence of a sighting on Mercury 9. I have the original on-board tapes in my possession which also refute this." The actual source of the original report, attributed to NBC radio news, remains obscure. In 1979 I asked the NBC Radio News archives to check on transcripts from the period, but according to Lyn Myers, executive producer of NBC Radio News (letter dated August 8,1979), "We... can find no transcript concerning an incident such as you describe". There the matter rests. As so often happens, there probably was some spark that set off the blaze -- but the actual stimulus was too minor to have left any trace. Some UFO enthusiast probably half-heard a garbled radio account, told associates about it, and developed the recollection at conferences and conclaves. Before long, the story had spread in so many garbled versions that the different tales appeared to be independent corroborations when in fact they were only multi-generation mongrels. Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 9 A minor footnote to Cooper's spaceflight UFO connection is a report from his second (and last) orbital mission, Gemini-5 in August 1965. Researcher Alan Frank Sandler found some air-to-ground voice transcripts which seemed to refer to a radar sighting of a UFO. He used this material in a movie, "UFOs Past Present and Future", and author Robert Emmenegger adapted the screenplay to a paperback book of the same name published by Ballantine in 1974. On a pass across the US, the astronauts were told that Cape Kennedy radar was tracking another object "two to ten thousand yards" from their spacecraft. They were asked if they had seen anything, but they replied in the negative. "And that is the last that the public knows about what was sighted during the Gemini 5 flight", intoned Sandler. The story subsequently appeared in UFO magazines and newsletters. If Sandler, who did the research in Houston, really believed that assertion, then it was only because his research was deficient. At the very next "change of shift" press briefing, two hours after the incident was reported, flight director Christopher Kraft (who, contrary to Sandler's claim, did not himself talk directly to the astronauts) answered a newsman's question about it: "The radars at the Cape apparently were tracking a side lobe which gave them two returns from the spacecraft.... We're fairly certain that it was some kind of phenomenon like that.... The Merritt Island and Patrick radars were tracking what appeared to be two objects with similar signal strengths about two to ten thousand yards from the spacecraft and we really believe they were tracking the side lobe". These comments were on transcripts of the conference, available to this day at the Public Affairs Office in Houston. Kraft was referring to a not-uncommon problem with space radar. It is associated with the fact that the Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 10 radar beam (which is used to obtain a reflection when the radar is operating in the "skin track", or entirely passive mode of tracking) is not a pure cone-shaped projection, but is accompanied by weaker parallel projections as well. Sometimes the target acquisition logic circuits can become confused by reflections of these "side lobes", and this is what NASA decided had happened. Gemini-5 was a particularly difficult flight to track, according to a post-flight report entitled "Network Performance Analysis for the GT-5 Mission" (U66- 11760). Explained the report, "Due to the fuel cell problem the spacecraft beacon was turned off for long periods to conserve electrical power. Therefore, more effort than usual was directed towards skin tracking.... Significantly, many stations scheduled to skin track were either unable to acquire, or were unable to lock on the target". So the incident was neither exceptional nor particularly baffling. The last word on this incident should lie with the astronauts involved. Cooper and his co-pilot Charles "Pete" Conrad have denied seeing such UFOs, and Cooper's candor is unquestionable. Another witness whose testimony UFO buffs should trust is the "capcom", the astronaut who was talking to Cooper and Conrad during the incident. It was James McDivitt, who has never made any secret of his own UFO-related experiences in the space program. Neither of these men ever considered the Gemini-5 incident as having anything to do with UFOs. Sandler had missed another trick by not digging deeply enough into the Gemini-5 material. Cooper had in fact described something which could well have been verbally converted into a UFO, during the post-flight crew debriefing. His co-pilot Conrad had started off with the remark, "Okay, now that satellite ---" to which Cooper replied, "Satellites --- we never saw any of the scheduled ones. There was one time when Pete and I Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 11 thought we saw something and we didn't have time to identify it. We were in drifting flight and we never could identify it. I don't even know if it was a satellite. So many things are going by when you're drifting that it's difficult to say...." (It is not known what McDivitt, who had seen his own famous UFO while in the same kind of "drifting flight" just ten weeks earlier, thought about Cooper's comment.) In OMNI, Cooper summarized the whole mythology: "To my knowledge, the only astronaut on any of the Mercury, Gemini, or Apollo missions who ever saw anything that might have been a UFO was Jim McDivitt, but he didn't get enough pictures to prove anything substantial. That's the only case, in spite of all the stories you hear" --- stories from the books and articles by Edwards, Vallee and Hynek, Don Wilson and Robert Anton Wilson, Sachs, Stringfield, Fawcett, and many others. So the famous Mercury-9 story is false -- it never happened. THE SECOND HUNT Cooper had been a student at the USAF Experimental Flight Test School at Edwards AFB, California, from 1956- 1957. After graduation he served as an experimental flight test engineer and a flight test pilot at the Air Force Flight Test Center at the base. He was there when in 1959 he was selected as one of the "original seven" Mercury astronauts recently celebrated in "The Right Stuff". What has been portrayed as "an alleged case of suppression of photographic evidence of a UFO that landed near Edwards AFB" has become part of the Cooper UFO legend. His own words on the case, told in 1977 to interviewer Lee Spiegel for the "The Credibility Factor" (the UFO record), are as follows: he recalled "...the case of one that landed out on the dry lake bed right out from a number of camera crews we had who filmed it. And Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 12 the film was there and was sent forward to the safekeeping somewhere in Washington, never to be seen again.". A detailed account of the incident appeared in Timothy Green Beckley's booklet, Hangar 18 (Global Communications, 1980). "After lunch this particular day", wrote Beckley, "Cooper had assigned a team of photographers to an area of the vast dry lake beds near Edwards". The team spotted "a strange-looking craft" which, in Cooper's words, was "hovering above the ground -- and then it slowly came down and sat on the lake bed for a few minutes." All during this time the cameras were supposedly filming away. Then, in words again ascribed to Cooper, "It took off at quite a sharp angle and just climbed straight out of sight." The film, sent off to Washington, vanished almost as quickly. As recounted in Penthouse ("Cosmic Coverup" by Tony Scaduto, October 1978), "Gordon Cooper says the film that he knows was taken of a UFO landing near the astronauts' training base in California has disappeared somewhere within official vaults....(It was) a film of the UFO that his men photographed, a film that has keen suppressed.". Early in 1979 I had only begun pursuing this story. My first step was a call to the Public Information Officer at Edwards, Paul Sewall. He readily recalled the incident Cooper must have been talking about, but with some differences. Although the widespread story was that the UFO had set down on Haystack Butte out on the range, the two witnesses to the incident only described it as slowly flying past them. They had indeed made a lot of theodolite (tracking camera) exposures, which had keen developed in a base lab and them sent away for analysis.. When I called John ("Jack") Gettys, one of the witnesses, he sent me a file of material on the sighting, which had occurred on May 3, 1957. He had never even realized that future astronaut Gordon Cooper had keen at Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 13 the base at that time (he had no connection with the incident). He also proudly recalled that the case had been extensively investigated by a UFO researcher named Dr. James McDonald -- who had been one of the leading ufologists in the world in the 1960s. The "coverup" story seemed to be unraveling.. In fact, McDonald had described his findings on July 29,1968, during his testimony on UFOs to a congressional committee. This is the way he described it: "James D. Bittick and John R. Gettys... were at the time Askania cameramen on the test range, and spotted the domed-disk UFO just as they reached Askania #4 site at Edwards, a bit before 8:00 AM that day [JEO: Compare this with Beckley's account of "after lunch" -- evidently pure dramatization]. They immediately got into communication with the range director, Frank E. Baker, and asked if anyone else was manning an Askania that could be used to get triangulation shots. Since no other camera operators were on duty at other sites, Baker told them to fire manually, and they got a number of shots before the object moved off into the distance. Bittick estimated that the object lay about a mile away when they got off the first shot, though when first seen he put it at no more than 500 yards off. He and Gettys both said it had a golden color, looked somewhat like an inverted plate with a dome on top, and had square holes or panels around the dome. Gettys thought that the holes were circular, not square. It was moving away from them, seemed to glow with its own luminosity, and had a hazy, indistinct halo around its rim, both mentioned. The number of shots taken is uncertain: Gettys thought perhaps thirty. The object was lost from sight by the time it moved out to about five miles or so, and they did not see it again.... The photos were shortly taken by base military authorities and were never seen again by the men. In a session later that day, Bittick [was] informed that they had seen a Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 14 weather balloon distorted by the desert atmospheric effects.". When I told Gettys in 1982 that McDonald had used his case in congressional testimony, the UFO witness was pleased but surprised. McDonald had never gotten back to him about the use he'd put his testimony to. So the pro- UFO people kept some secrets, too!. Now, in fact those photographs did not vanish after all: they had been sent to Project Blue Book, at Wright- Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio, per regulations (I even have talked to the officer who did the original Blue Book interviews, former Captain Hubert Davis, who had been greatly impressed with the witness's sincerity) . Years later the photos were pulled out of the retired Air Force files by UFO writers and investigators, as yet ignorant of the still-unpublished "Cooper connection". Two of the photos appear in Brad Steiger's paperback "Project Blue Book" (Ballantine, 1976) in the set of illustrations between pages 360 and 361. Wrote Steiger in the caption: "UFOs on target! Photos taken by United States military personnel" for case #4715, Edwards AFB, May 2 [sic!] 1957. But that case number did not appear on another list in Steiger's book, which included all "unsolved" cases. The Air Force must have found a satisfactory solution -- but what?. That answer had been around since 1957, but not widely circulated in the UFO media for obvious reasons: the Air Force said it had been a weather balloon (as the witnesses had been told the very day of their sighting) and had the evidence to prove it. In a letter to a UFO newsletter in June 1957, Major Robert F. Spence of the Edwards AFB Office of Information Services wrote as follows: "The alleged UFO was conclusively identified as a balloon from a weather unit a few miles west of the observer's location. This was corrborated by an independent report which discloses that this balloon was Hunting for Gordon Cooper's UFOs / Oberg / p. 15 being tracked at that time with precision recording devices. The data show that the balloon passed the observer's location at almost the precise time, bearings, elevations and speed reported by them.... Objects in the photographs, even after magnification, were found to be small white specks, alternately changing from elliptical to round in shape. These are typical of a number of similar reports received by the Air Force, which upon investigation were found to be balloons, the odd appearances being caused by specular reflection of sunlight and other atmospheric conditions peculiar to desert regions. It is the opinion of the Air Force that any attempt to attribute anything unusual or mysterious to the incident is unwarranted and not supported by the facts.". But oddly enough, even though the original sighting was published in numerous newspapers (and made national wire services), the explanation was written up in no newspaper that I have been able to find. Nor did the pro- UFO McDonald (who hardly could have failed to be aware of it, since he had been sent the same material by Gettys) mention it before the congressional committee. Of course, the explanation "weather balloon" elicits snickers of disbelief from anybody familiar with how the term was over-used for other cases -- but this case looks pretty solid.. There is no evidence that Cooper ever heard this explanation, but he evidently had same misgivings about the case. In 1978, in his second interview with Spiegel (this time for OMNI), he evaded any discussion of the Edwards case by saying, "I'd just as soon not get into the Edwards incident. I didn't get to see anything personally, it was all second hand evidence really." That it was, and Cooper's caution was commendable -- if perhaps a bit tardy. His name had already been interwoven with the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Volker Spielberg From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 03:46:35 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:18:09 -0500 Subject: Volker Spielberg I may be duplicating an earlier discussion but has anyone investigated Volker Spielberg. I view of his importance to the business of solving the mystery of these 'alien autopsy' tapes, what do we actually know of him? What are his motives for surpressing access? ... can it really be the equivalent of an antique collector who doesn't really want to know if his priceless 'Matisse' is worthless crap? Does he exist? For all we know he may be an actor, as may the clumsy 'cameraman'. Has he been interviewed? Directly, I mean. Second-hand info (X said Y said this or that) is what has caused so much confusion and wasted effort on this topic. Bob Rickard - editor bob@forteana.win-uk.net FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "When the mermaid in our autopsy turns out to be a piece of wood, we laugh and move on." Fr L. Fanthorpe,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Randi Vs Dames - RV Challenge? From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:58:34 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:20:46 -0500 Subject: Randi Vs Dames - RV Challenge? Hi All... Does anyone on the list have access to Ed Dames? For a few minutes work he could be one million dollars richer. - John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: James Randi --- Wizard <randi-hotline@ssr.com> >Subject: Ed Dames >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 23:40:27 -0500 I've been informed that on the Art Bell show, "remote viewer" Ed Dames claims that he has taken me up on my US$1,094,000 challenge but that I backed out for some reason. If Dames did indeed say that, he lied. He also said, I'm told, that he thought that my "financial backers would not put up money against him for fear of losing." If he said this, he was -- not to my surprise -- both wrong and misinformed. I have no "backers" who approve or disapprove my decisions. I have a Board of Directors, and the Board has given me the authority to make the challenge without their prior approval. I have not the slightest fear that Ed Dames will take the prize. If he were to really apply for it, he'd find that to be so. But he has never contacted me, and I've never heard that he has any interest in doing so. If these reports of what Dames said are true, he will be aping the others who choose to avoid a confrontation with reality by saying that the JREF is afraid to test them, or that we tested them and they won, but were not paid. Nonsense. Such an event has never happened. Ed Dames, do you wish to accept the challenge of the JREF, as stated clearly at: http://www.randi.org and plainly available to any and all persons? I await a reply. (I ask that any persons who have access to Ed Dames forward this message to him.) James Randi --------------------------------------------------------------- -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: W Smith & MJ 12 Article + Mendoza Fan Club From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 04:54:47 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:19:29 -0500 Subject: Re: W Smith & MJ 12 Article + Mendoza Fan Club Hi Andy.. You wrote: > Date: 27 Jan 97 12:40:01 EST > From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Wilbert Smith & MJ 12 Article + Mendoza Fan Club Literature > How nice it is to see a reputable UFO journal being quoted > for once on this list! - "Wilbert Smith & MJ 12" by Chris Allan, > from UFO Brigantia 1990. Perhaps, as former editor and publisher > of UFO Brigantia I should take a Santillian view and immediately > initiate legal action............... Andy, don't point that lawyer at me, I never once mentioned alien autopsy cameramen or ETs in pickle jars! > Nahh, you're free to have it if it makes you happy. Please feel > free to upload, download or off-load from this journal. > I hereby lift all copyright restrictions on its 35+ issues (not > that there were any anyway). Thank you. Eventually -- as in "hopefully within our lifetimes" -- UFO Brigantia will appear on the WWW, in one form or another. Many thanks, John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:00:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:15:04 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:31:21 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >> What is the nature of the family problem with her coming forward? >> Compared with the possibility of independently establishing at some >> part of the reality of this alleged event I'm a little surprised at >> her total reluctance to help. >I agree, and have suggested to Budd that he call her and tell her his >own credibility is on the line. Maybe she'd respond to a personal >appeal, I thought. >The family problem, as I understand it, is that her family thinks she's >crazy (a) to believe she saw what she allegedly claims she saw, and (b) >to get involved in any way. They have made life difficult for her. Sure, I understand that, and I've run into that before. Its odd but aparently normal. But she doesn't have to come forward _publically_. >Likewise, Janet Kimball may not feel a burning sense of responsiblity >about any of this. She's better informed about the world than Pappy >Henderson, and took what she felt was a major, daring step in telling >Budd anything at all. Now she seems to feel she's done her bit, and that >nobody has the right to ask any more from her. >>From her point of view that surely makes sense. If she saw the thing >from our perspective, she might think we had a point, too. But it's not >surprising that she doesn't. The woman just doesn't pass her time >pondering the credibility of UFO research. Sure, its understandable. After all, from her alleged perspective, what does she have to ponder anyway - she 'knows' its real. >> What exactly is a "psychoanalytic therapist" anyway. >Good question. [...] >But he corrected me, and said he was a "psychoanalytic >psychotherapist," which turns out to mean: >Clear? He himself isn't crazy about the distinction, but says it's made >by people in his profession, and that he feels he should respect it. In >any case, he's been formally trained as an analyst. Is he a doctor? >> I just >> think that so-called (alleged <grin>) alien abductions is >> monumentallly too important an item for someone with his slack >> non-scientific approach. >Yep, but on the other hand, when Budd first started working on >abductions, where were the scientists? Someone had to do it. Can't argue that. >And where are the scientists now? Not, I must say, that this excuses >Budd for such lapses as not keeping a database of how many of the >abductees he's worked with have the scoop marks he so often talks about. >Amazing to make such a point of that, and not even have numbers. Where are the scientists now? Same place they've always been, just that now they (a few) are starting to lend an ear, occasionally. >Thanks in part to your comments here, John, there's a good chance that >the supposed alien writing will receive a proper scientific study. Stay >tuned. I've got my fingers crossed and if I can help in any way I'd be happy to.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:00:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:12:53 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:34:52 -0500 (EST) >From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >> Well, I automatically have a problem with her not coming forward _in >> some manner_. Its not like she has to appear on Late Night with David >> Letterman y'know. Would she be willing to meet with one or two people >> who don't know here true identity, take a lie detector test, answer a >> series of questions? >> What is the nature of the family problem with her coming forward? >The book implies that her family was against her coming forward >from the beginning and they didn't want her to get involved in >this sort of thing. So far as coming forward _publically_ those are good enough reasons. But she could still _privately_ become available for interviews. lie detector tests, etc. >> Compared with the possibility of independently establishing at some >> part of the reality of this alleged event I'm a little surprised at >> her total reluctance to help. >I would like to see jpeg copies of the letters distributed to >this group and perhaps we could come up with something. I would >also like to see the picture of Dan that Linda identified from Peter >Jennings Night News. If he is dead, as the book leads me to believe, >then what could it hurt? Excellent idea! >And if he is still alive, maybe someone would recognize him. He, >afterall, witnessed everything, the initial alien abduction, the >association of the UN VIP, and the subsequent abductions of Linda by >Richard and himself. Another excellent idea!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 05:31:11 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:17:27 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Hi Greg; > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:58:44 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > John Powell and I are still picking over details of the Budd > Hopkins "Linda" case... And it's all interesting stuff. >> From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > I'd written -- giving an example of how mail from the various > principals in the case look: >> >"Janet Kimball" (the woman who supposedly saw the abduction >> >from the Brooklyn Bridge) has a trait all her own -- she put >> >adhesive labels with big red borders on her first envelope. On >> >the labels she's written "re: Brooklyn Bridge." Nobody else's >> >envelopes have anything like that. This has always puzzled me: why did Ms Kimball think that "re: Brooklyn Bridge" would have held any significance for Budd? Despite the alleged size of the Linda abduction event -- many stalled cars, hysterical witnesses running about, etc -- it never made the media. No newspaper reports, no television coverage. How did Ms Kimball know that Budd would have heard about the Brooklyn Bridge incident and eagerly pluck her envelope out from amongst the hundreds he receives each year? Another question which someone who lives in New York might be able to answer for me: Are there any surveillance cameras on the Brooklyn Bridge? Most public bridges and freeways are covered by video cameras to monitor traffic congestion, weather conditions, accidents, and so on. Has Budd or anyone else checked to see whether any major traffic incidents were recorded or documented on the night of Linda's alleged abduction? [...] > Unless, of course, someone believes the whole thing is a hoax that > Hopkins pulled. Then he, or someone working with him, was planning > every detail like that. Another question for our friends in New York: Isn't the Brooklyn Bridge the major landmark friendly New Yorkers try to sell to unsuspecting tourists? ;-) Thanks, John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:00:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:09:46 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:19:35 -0600 (CST) >> Uh-oh. 400 miles away is probably _way_ too distant, but I'd allow up >> to a 100 miles, maybe 200 miles. >You're more generous that I am; when I presented the TST to the rest of >the geophysics department, they were amazed that Persinger was getting >away with saying such things. And, BTW, I showed the TST to Persinger's >own thesis advisor, who agreed that the TST was way off base. On a clear day you can see forever <grin>. I don't what a good distance limitation is. I don't know if (or how) 'earthlights' travel, how fast, how wacky their transit is, etc. Heck, _maybe_ 10 miles is correct, I just don't know. >> I'm astounded that the time window is 6 months either way! More like 6 >> _HOURS_ surrounding the total event. Are we talking about a series of >> seismic events spread out over time, or clearly isolated-in-time seismic >> events? >Steve, first of all, if you didn't know what Persinger was claiming, >why were you defending him? :) I wasn't exactly defending him <grin>. I'm very interested in the coincidences involving magnetic fields and their affect on humans in general. >Yes, his "lag" and "lead" time was clearly stated as 6 months. He would >accept as correlated data a magnitude 3 seismic event 6 months before >a nocturnal light observation several hundred miles away. Does he provide a basis for that time window? What's the reasoning? It kind of seems to me that any geologically active area would have an event or two per year, and it kind of seems to me that every 700 or so miles you'll find a geologically active are, so it would be the same as saying everything is TST without the requirement to prove it... Wouldn't a detailed definition of an 'earthlight' be required _before_ you could reliably select a time window and geographic area? I mean, if we knew what they were exactly and knew (for example) that they have a duration of 2 hours maximum and a possible speed of 100mph maximum then doesn't _that_ automatically create the necessary parameters? >> Do you know where I can get the raw data? >Oh, yes, that minor little point. He never presented the raw data, only >the graphs. What!?!? _No_ data??? Has anybody aske him for it? >There's one exception, of course, and that was when he "proved" that >UFOs in Manitoba were correlated with weak seismic events in southern >Minnesota, >700 km away. In that study, he used my own MANUFOCAT for >the UFO data (in others, he admitted using newspaper clippings!). Since >I know the demographics of the MANUFOCAT data, it was easy to see how >silly his correlations were. And if that was typical of his methodology Hold it a second. You're saying he used newspaper clippings for the "raw data???" >> If you reduce the observation distance to 200 miles and the time window to >> 24 hours what sort of correlation do you get? >In Manitoba, that would be zilch. Elsewhere, who knows? In California, >probably pretty good! :) Hahahha!!! Well, should we expect geologic activity to be similar worldwide? Should we then expect 'earthlights' to be similar worldwide? (Isn't a siesmic 3 in China the same as a seismic 3 in Brazil?) >> Majority, sure, but I don't know about vast majority. I do know that many >> (virtually all) of these cases are investigated post-event. Its >> convenient, perhaps accurate, to attribute a star (and the cute trick the >> mind plays when staring at a stationary object far away) to the sighted >> object. But how do we know that's really the right answer? >> Fireballs, balls of light, ball lightning all play into this also. >Well, that's a very good question, and one aspect of ufology which >really deserves study. >The simple answer is that post-hoc studies are usually never done >because once something *seems* like it was a star, satellite or >airplane, there's no need to proceed further. However, your objection >to this approach is a basic, philosophical issue, and one that needs to >be addressed in detail. >In other words, just because the "UFO" is stationary for 4 hours, >twinkles like a star and sinks slowly into the west, does that mean >it's a star? There is no question that aliens, wishing to disguise >their activities could decide to masquerade as a star, but is that more >likely than the possibility than the witness was really looking at a >star? >I think I know which choice I'sd make, based on my investigation >experience. I know how poor are the observing capabilities of most >people, so my own view is that if it smells, tastes and looks like >****, it probably is ****. Sure, with those parameters I'd go with 'Star' too. But there a cases where the witness says it moves oddly, etc. If a witness says he was facing exactly East at 7:00pm in Chicago and saw a bright light sort of stationary but wobling slowly for 3 hours then zip off northwest what do ya do? >These questions make one thing very clear: investigative ufology is one >field which has been ignored long enough. It's at the core of all >ufological research and theories, and we need to take a long look at the >basics again (if ufologists ever did at all). I think long before our present time folks did work hard on that, nowadays they just seem to want to include anything a witness says. >> Well, it was you good folks up North who first (so far as I know) decided >> to back-burner any single-witness short-duration sighting by default (as >Not me, baby! Hahahah!! >> On the other hand I'm generally skeptical of explanations that merely sound >> good. How do we know a sighting was a misidentfication of an airplane or a >> star? I've read sighting reports that conclude airplane misidentification >> simply because an airport was less than 50 miles from the event site, yet >> the witness cited they _also_ saw an airplane elsewhere in the sky. >I'd answer: 1) experience; and 2) probability. Also, see above. >Witnesses' observational capabilities are *terrible* in most cases. Terrible!? Geez, I've been thinking that for years and everytime I mention it I get mugged <grin>. I personally think its another good reason to side-step the single-witness cases... >I'd be willing to develop a paper on investigative ufology and present >it at some upcoming UFO conference. Of course, it wouldn't be as big a >draw as Linda Howe or Colin Andrews, so I won't be looking for my plane >tickets in the mail just yet. :) Too bad for that, it would probably be _much_ more useful and important than the alternatives mentioned! >> >;) Must be the NSA stooges in our midst! >> I only live 20 minutes from NSA HQ (therefore I _must_ be in their employ >> <grin>) so I'm used to them... >And those black cadillacs with the smoked windows are sooooo blaisee >these days! ;) Sure, almost everybody has one!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Linda Case - de Cuellar Denies "Abduction" From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 05:34:15 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:19:23 -0500 Subject: Linda Case - de Cuellar Denies "Abduction" >From _Skeptics' UFO Newsletter_ by Philip J. Klass. #43, Jan, 1997 404 "N" Street, SW, Washington DC 20024 (C) 1997 [SIX ISSUES $15 for US/CANADA, OVERSEAS AIR MAIL IS $20/YEAR] ============================================================== SHORT SHRIFT: _Former United Nations Secretary General Denies Hopkins' Claim_: Javier Perez de Cuellar has flatly denied in writing that he was abducted by a UFO from lower Manhattan on Nov. 30, 1989, along with Linda "Cortile," as claimed in the new _Budd Hopkins_ book "WITNESSED: The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO Abductions" [SUN #42/Nov.1996]. The Perez de Cuellar denial was in response to a query submitted by _Brad Puffer_, a researcher then working on the NOVA TV program "Kidnapped By UFOs?" in which Hopkins was featured and which was broadcast Feb 27, 1996. [SUN #38/Mar.1996] In Perez de Cuellar's response from Paris on July 17, 1996, he said: "_I cannot but strongly deny the claim that I have had an abduction experience at any time. On several occasions, when questioned about that matter, I reiterated that these allegations were completely false and I hope that this statement will definitely put an end to these unfounded rumours._" [_SUN_ predicts that Hopkins will not drop this claim until Perez de Cuellar can produce a _sworn statement_ by an _ET official_ saying they have never abducted him.] =============================== -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Star Nations Conferences Announcement From: changleska@geocities.com (by way of Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net>) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:43:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:21:38 -0500 Subject: Star Nations Conferences Announcement Dear all, I am humbly passing this information on to all of you that have indicated interest in such events. This message serves to announce two upcoming Wichahpe Oyate/Star Nations Conferences. Once again, if there's anyone who doesn't wish to recieve these announcements, please let me know and I will take your name off the list. These are exciting and important times. Hope to see you there. Mitakuye Oyasin, Changleska Wakan Wicasan *************************************************************** STAR FAMILY CONFERENCE March 13-16, 1997 San Diego, California (Holiday Inn-Mission Bay, 3737 Sports Area Blvd.; (800) 511-6909) Lakota spiritual advisor Standing Elk has announced that Spirit has indicated that another Gathering/information-sharing by Native American Elders and Anglo specialists on the Star Nations be held on the Pacific Coast near the Spring Equinox. This Conference is to keep up the flow of information concerning the trials that Mother Earth is commencing, and about the imminent return of the Star People. Thus, the Star Family Conference is intended to maintain the momentum of developing awareness developed from the Star Knowledge Conference on the Great Plains last June, and from the Star Visions Conference held in the Rocky Mountains in November, 1996. Presenters: Standing Elk (Dakota), Floyd Hand (Lakota), Wablesa (Lakota), Pathfinder (Cherokee/ Apache), Silver Star (Cherokee), Kachinas Kutenai (Apache), Scout Cloud Lee, Mary Thunder (Metis), Monica Medicine Wind, Han Bets Men (Mayan), Grandmother Wind Rider (Mayan), Nestor Night Owl, Steven Blue Wolf, Jose Fernandez (Puerto Rico), Dr. Brian O'Leary (Astronaut Corps), Dr. Richard Boylan, Dr. Truman Wong (Pine Ridge), Dr. Lee Shargel (NASA), Chet Snow, Angela Brown- Miller, Ph.D., LCSW, Alex Collier, Bettye Binder, Marilyn Carlson, CHT (Yellow Hand), Paula Peterson, Lewis Martin and Erica Snyder, Jeanette Matacia, Tom Scere and Star Sparks. Conference registration: $175 (after Mar. 1, $200). Single day=$60. Contact Holiday Inn directly for lodging; mention "Star Knowledge Conference" for special $69 rate. Use Holiday courtesy van to/from airport. Alternate: Comfort Inn-Mission Bay. For registration/more information contact: Collette (619) 474-0842, P.O. Box 1612, National City, CA 91951; back-up: Marilyn Carlson (206) 379-9624. *************************************************************** STAR COUNCIL CONFERENCE of Native American Elders and other Star People Specialists June 11-14, 1997 Rapid City, South Dakota Civic Center, adjacent to the sacred Black Hills. Presenters: Standing Elk (Dakota), Marilyn Carlson, CHT (Yellow Hand), Dr. Richard Boylan, and many other Native-American and non-native speakers to be announced. For more information contact: Marilyn Carlson (206) 379-9624.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Quote from UFO Updates on Unusual Research From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:56:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:29:56 -0500 Subject: Quote from UFO Updates on Unusual Research Hello All, I have a new quotes page on Unusual Research. Featured is a quote from this mailing list and a link to the UFO Updates Archive. Take a look at: http://users1.ee.net/pmason/quotes2.html Hope you enjoy, Pat Mason ********************************************** ********************************************** * UNUSUAL RESEARCH * * * * http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html * ********************************************** **********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: Volker Spielberg From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Feb 97 14:39:46 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:27:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Volker Spielberg >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Volker Spielberg >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 03:46:35 -0000 >From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >I may be duplicating an earlier discussion but has anyone investigated >Volker Spielberg. I view of his importance to the business of solving >the >mystery of these 'alien autopsy' tapes, what do we actually know of >him? >What are his motives for surpressing access? ... can it really be the >equivalent of an antique collector who doesn't really want to know if >his >priceless 'Matisse' is worthless crap? >Does he exist? For all we know he may be an actor, as may the clumsy >'cameraman'. Has he been interviewed? Directly, I mean. Second-hand >info (X said Y said this or that) is what has caused so much confusion >and wasted effort on this topic. Bob, I have not met Volker, but don't doubt that he is real. He is listed in German records as the owner of Lollipop Records in Hamburg. Mike Hesemann has met him and discussed the film with him. As far as an interview, Nico Maillard of TF-1 in Paris interviewed him by telephone for the French TV special on the film. In this brief interview he says in very graphic language that the film is his and he will do with it as he pleases. Transcripts of this exchange have been around on the net for some time. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 STS-82 Set for Second Hubble Servicing Mission From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:52:29 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:23:32 -0500 Subject: STS-82 Set for Second Hubble Servicing Mission Debbie Rahn/Jennifer McCarter Headquarters, Washington, DC January 31, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1778) RELEASE: 97-18 STS-82 SET FOR SECOND HUBBLE TELESCOPE SERVICING MISSION Astronauts on the Space Shuttle Discovery STS-82 mission will significantly upgrade the scientific capabilities of NASA's Hubble Space Telescope (HST) during the ten-day servicing mission by installing two state-of-the-art instruments. They also will perform maintenance to keep HST functioning smoothly until the next scheduled servicing mission in 1999. STS-82, scheduled to launch Feb. 11, 1997, is the second servicing mission to HST since its deployment in April 1990. The seven-member crew will conduct at least four spacewalks (also called Extravehicular Activities or EVAs) to remove two older instruments and install two new astronomy instruments, as well as other servicing tasks. The two older instruments being replaced are the Goddard High Resolution Spectrometer and the Faint Object Spectrograph. Replacing these instruments are the Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph (STIS) and the Near Infrared Camera and Multi-Object Spectrometer (NICMOS). HST's current complement of science instruments includes two cameras, two spectrographs, and fine guidance sensors. In addition to installing the new instruments, astronauts will replace other existing hardware with upgrades and spares. Hubble will get a refurbished Fine Guidance Sensor, an optical device that is used on HST to provide pointing information for the spacecraft and is used as a scientific instrument for astrometric science. The Solid State Recorder (SSR) will replace one of HST's current reel-to-reel tape recorders. The SSR provides much more flexibility than a reel-to-reel recorder and can store ten times more data. One of Hubble's four Reaction Wheel Assemblies (RWA) will be replaced with a refurbished spare. The RWA is part of Hubble's Pointing Control Subsystem. The RWAs use spin momentum to move the telescope into position. The wheels also maintain the spacecraft in a stable position. The wheel axes are oriented so that the telescope can provide science with only three wheels operating, if required. The STS-82 crew will be commanded by Ken Bowersox, who will be making his fourth Shuttle flight. The pilot is Scott Horowitz, who will be making his second flight. There are five mission specialists assigned to this flight. Joe Tanner, Mission Specialist-1, is making his second flight. Mission Specialist-2, Steve Hawley, is making his fourth flight. Greg Harbaugh, Mission Specialist-3, is making his fourth flight. Mark Lee, Mission Specialist-4, is making his fourth flight. Mission Specialist-5, Steve Smith, is making his second flight. The crew members who will conduct the planned EVAs are Mark Lee, Greg Harbaugh, Steve Smith and Joe Tanner. Training for this mission began nearly two years ago. Extensive training for the EVAs was conducted at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, TX, in the 25-foot deep Weightless Environment Training Facility; at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, AL, in the 40-foot deep Neutral Buoyancy Simulator; and at the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, MD, in a 12,500 square-foot cleanroom. During the training, the astronauts practiced every detail of every task they will have to perform during the four spacewalks. They also rehearsed using more than 150 specialized tools and crew aids developed specifically for this mission, ranging from a simple bag for carrying some of the smaller tools to sophisticated, battery-operated power tools. The hand-operated devices allow astronauts to more efficiently perform intricate, labor-intensive tasks. Tools will allow access to equipment bays on both HST and the Shuttle and will help remove and install scientific instruments and other components. Discovery is targeted for an early morning launch on Feb. 11 from NASA's Kennedy Space Center (KSC) Launch Complex 39-A at 3:56 a.m. EST. The launch window is 61 minutes. With an on-time launch on Feb. 11 and a nominal 10-day mission, Discovery will land back at KSC on Feb. 21 at about 2:43 a.m. EST. STS-82 will be the 22nd Flight of Discovery and the 82nd mission flown since the start of the Space Shuttle program in April 1981. New Astronomy Instruments The HST was designed to allow new instruments to be easily installed as old ones become obsolete. This was demonstrated during the first servicing mission in December 1993, when, during an 11-day mission that included a record five EVAs, astronauts successfully installed a new camera which had its corrective optics built right in, and a special instrument, called the COSTAR (Corrective Optics Space Telescope Axial Replacement) that would properly refocus light from the flawed main mirror to the other instruments. The new instruments installed during this mission will again dramatically expand Hubble's scientific capabilities. The Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph (STIS) provides unique and powerful spectroscopic capabilities for the HST. A spectrograph separates the light gathered by the telescope into its spectral components so that the composition, temperature, motion, and other chemical and physical properties of astronomical objects can be analyzed. STIS's two-dimensional detectors allow the instrument to gather 30 times more spectral data and 500 times more spatial data than existing spectrographs on Hubble which look at one place at a time. One of the greatest advantages to using STIS is in the study of supermassive black holes. STIS will search for massive black holes by studying the star and gas dynamics around galactic centers. It also will measure the distribution of matter in the universe by studying quasar absorption lines, use its high sensitivity and spatial resolution to study star formation in distant galaxies, and perform spectroscopic mapping of solar system objects. The Near Infrared Camera and Multi-Object Spectrometer (NICMOS) promises to gain valuable new information on the dusty centers of galaxies and the formation of stars and planets. NICMOS consists of three cameras. It will provide the capability for infrared imaging and spectroscopic observations of astronomical targets. NICMOS will give astronomers their first clear view of the universe at near-infrared wavelengths between 0.8 and 2.5 micrometers -- longer wavelengths than the human eye can see. The expansion of the universe shifts the light from very distant objects toward longer red and infrared wavelengths. NICMOS's near infrared capabilities will provide views of objects too distant for research by current Hubble optical and ultraviolet instruments. NICMOS's detectors perform more efficiently than previous infrared detectors. Technological Advances Besides rapidly advancing scientific understanding of the universe, HST is making direct contributions to the health, safety, and quality of people's lives through a variety of technological spinoffs. For instance, a new, non-surgical breast biopsy technique using a device originally developed for HST's Imaging Spectrograph (STIS) is now saving women pain, scarring, radiation exposure, time and money. This technique, called stereotactic automated large-core needle biopsy, enables a doctor to precisely locate a suspicious lump and use a needle instead of surgery to remove tissue for study. This precise process is possible because of a key improvement in digital imaging technology known as a Charge Coupled Device or CCD. Looking Toward the Future The Hubble Space Telescope was designed to operate in space for 15 years. Since its deployment in 1990, HST has revolutionized astronomers' vision of the universe more than any prior telescopes. Many new details about planets, stars and galaxies have been revealed in the short span of six years. Hubble provided dramatic and detailed views of comet fragments smashing into Jupiter; clues about the existence of black holes in the core of galaxies; and has made significant progress in determining the age and size of the universe. With astronauts geared to embark on the second mission to service the telescope, scientists are looking forward to even greater capabilities to look deeper into the universe. Two more servicing missions are planned for 1999 and 2002 to keep the telescope functioning efficiently and to improve its scientific capability. Among the tasks for the 1999 mission are installation of the Advanced Camera, new solar arrays, and the telescope will be reboosted into a higher orbit. In 2002, plans call for installation of an as-yet undefined advanced scientific instrument as well as maintenance to keep HST functioning until at least 2005. The HST is a joint project between NASA and the European Space Agency. - end -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: Volker Spielberg From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:06:58 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:32:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Volker Spielberg > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Volker Spielberg > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 03:46:35 -0000 > From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > I may be duplicating an earlier discussion but has anyone investigated > Volker Spielberg. I view of his importance to the business of solving the > mystery of these 'alien autopsy' tapes, what do we actually know of him? We don't know a lot. He moved from Hamburg to Austria sometime in '95, I think. He apparently is in the music and/or video business. In what capacity, I'm not sure. > What are his motives for surpressing access? ... can it really be the > equivalent of an antique collector who doesn't really want to know if his > priceless 'Matisse' is worthless crap? My guess is (if he truly has the "film") that he wants to "milk" this thing for all its worth. I doubt that he collects much of anything, other than money. > Does he exist? For all we know he may be an actor, as may the clumsy > 'cameraman'. Has he been interviewed? Directly, I mean. Second-hand > info (X said Y said this or that) is what has caused so much confusion > and wasted effort on this topic. I think he is a real person. TF1 did track him down and interviewed him, albeit via telephone. The transcript of the interview is around somewhere. But is Volker Spielberg his real name? I dunno. I would have thought that researchers in Germany would have been on his tail (or maybe more appropriately: TALE) a long time ago. Someone like Michael Hesemann who lives in Germany would have been perfect (because of his location) to get more info about Herr Spielberg. But Hesemann apparently did not go in that direction. My hope is that someone, somewhere is pursuing this. I think it would be fascinating to learn more about Spielberg. Language barriers and the apparent foul attitude of Volker turned me off of looking for him. You ask good questions and hopefully there are some good solid answers somewhere. An interesting aside, rare footage and mysterious collectors are turning up everywhere. This is from Reuters. Not alien, but the parallels are uncanny. ==== VILASECA, Spain (Reuter) - A Spanish film festival screened Saturday a short pornographic film purporting to show a young Marilyn Monroe engaging in explicit sex acts. But viewers at Spain's First Record and Film Collectors Festival were skeptical about the identity of the actress. Mikel Barsa, promoter of the 1947 film, defended its authenticity and said he had sold 40 copies for $260,000 each to international distributors by the end of the day. "Suspicion is only aroused because Marilyn is a myth. If she were any other actress, this wouldn't happen", Barsa told reporters at the festival in Vilaseca, about 60 miles south of Barcelona. The six-minute black and white film has prompted a flurry of interest among collectors and a storm of protest from the Hollywood legend's estate which says it is a hoax and an attempt to degrade the 1950s sex symbol posthumously. Monroe died in 1962. The film shows a bare-breasted blonde lying nude on a couch and engaging in obscene games with a large vibrator. A young man then enters the room and a long scene of clumsy sexual intercourse ensues. The film ends with a closeup of the actress blowing cigarette smoke at the camera. Festival organizers projected close ups of the porn star side by side with images of Monroe in a later film. But viewers were not convinced. They said the actress bore a striking resemblance to Monroe but demanded further evidence to verify her identity. When the film's existence came to light last month, Barsa said its authenticity had been verified by various experts and he was convinced it was a rare, if sordid, image of the 21-year-old Monroe when she was still the little known Norma Jean Baker. Monroe later underwent plastic surgery that altered her appearance, organizers said. "The actress is undoubtedly Marilyn Monroe but powerful interests in Hollywood don't want this film to see the light because it is proof of the sordid underworld of an industry in which young people are forced to do all kinds of terrible things to reach stardom", Barsa said at the screening. An anonymous collector bought the 16mm clip for a few dollars at a Paris flea market in 1977, tucked in among six other films which had probably been part of a private library built up during a time when pornography was not shown commercially, organizers said. The 40 copies of the film sold Saturday are due to be released simultaneously in 40 countries, including England and Canada on Feb. 17. Festival organizer Mario Prades said last month there were two other copies of pornographic films made by Monroe in the United States and claimed Hollywood studios had tried to protect her image by suppressing them. =end= I wonder if these guys know Santilli/Spielberg???? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: Volker Spielberg From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Feb 97 14:24:18 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:25:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Volker Spielberg >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Volker Spielberg >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 03:46:35 -0000 >From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net Bob asks: >Does he exist? For all we know he may be an actor, as may the clumsy >'cameraman'. Has he been interviewed? He was allegedly interviewed on French TV during the airing of their show on the AA wherein VS said (in an imagined manical and lustful voice), "It mine!! All mine!!! And I don't give a damn about humanity. [INTERCOURSE] HUMANITY!!!!" Or something of the sort. <G> Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Alfred's Odd Ode #89 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 19:23:10 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:32:37 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #89 Apology to MW #89 (For February 4, 1997)=20 =09 I=92ll soon be among my fringe brethren -- Ides of March, and I=92m fond once together again. It=92s to Gulf Breeze that we=92ll flock And we=92ll try to take stock Of enigma, our joy, and this mess we=92re in. And oh sure, we will have some blown daises. Those not home, or those pushing up crazies. But hold our conclusions As that=92s just an intrusion, Besides, some may be judging _us_ crazy. I will bask in the open. . . be blessed. Where nary a thought is transgressed, At least to pretend To project, and extend What you can=92t hear in press we detest. And Strieber, and Friedman, and Brown! Only one of them _may_ be a clown. But rest you assured, As your stubbed toe is cured, That a donnybrook=92ll likely go down. As dust clears, it may be apparent What had form is now incoherent. So off we will go --=20 Forsworn to far snows -- In new quests for foundations coherence. And a pox on a merchant who fleeces Sad believers who buy clever pieces Of the UFO lore Like they=92ve gone to the store Or found some salvation of Jesus. And Pope, and O=92Leary, and Travis! What will _they_ have to reach out, and grab us? What will fire anew Our yearn for strange brew; What new thoughts will ca-jumble, and nab us.=20 It=92s all because of our blindered society That refuses to fess up to _truthful_ sobriety. They say that _we=92re_ drunk But they=92ll think different "thunk" Should _our_ song be more reasoned reality! And Oh, by the way, please don=92t vomit. Together we=92re there for the comet. I=92ll spend time with Stanton, Respectfully granting He speaks with me this time bog damn it <g>. So I=92ll see you in Gulf Breeze, or near it. With merchants in temple, don=92t fear it! We=92ll not chase them out. We=92ll not call it a rout, Just be glad there=92s a place for fringe spirit.=20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com I=92m off to see the wizard. And did you ever stop to think how strange and magical the little guy behind the curtain was? All by himself, even without the technology that made him appear grander =96 he still had the juice to run that emerald city =96 and the whole city was in on the deception =96 the whole city accepted him warmly out in the open =96 they knew he was a little guy, but with big ability. And he engineered a trip home. . . Back to the grayness of a black and white world =96 where the _man_ was cruel, and all you could do was hope for a miracle, or a happy ending.=20 I hope to _hell_ we=92re not in Kansas any more! And ironically, we=92re really not. The comet will be high in the sky, and the current truth may be plain to see. . .hope somebody brings a big telescope!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 4 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:24:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:44:46 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Hmmm, more details related to the Linda case. >From John Powell: > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again I'd talked about "Janet Kimball," the woman who supposedly saw Linda's abduction from the Brooklyn Bridge. She won't come forward. Why not? I'd written: > >The family problem, as I understand it, is that her family thinks she's > >crazy (a) to believe she saw what she allegedly claims she saw, and (b) > >to get involved in any way. They have made life difficult for her. And John, with some sympathetic words snipped, noted: > But she doesn't have to come forward _publically_. Her family doesn't want her involved in any way. They didn't want her talking to Budd Hopkins, either. If she came forward privately...talking to new people, even with promises of anonymity, I can understand that she'd feel exposed. And her family, for whatever reason, would be outraged. About Gibbs Williams, a psychoanlytic psychotherapist who has observed Linda, and thinks she's honest, John asks: > Is he a doctor? No, he's trained as a psychoanalyst. Don't need an MD for that. Most therapists, of course, aren't MDs. Only psychiatrists have to be. Analysts might or might not be. In any case, you could argue that they're the most thoroughly trained of any therapists, since they have to undergo a lengthy analysis of their own. Main thing, though, is that the guy is a competent pro. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Spielberg & Spielberg From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:38:47 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 00:35:48 -0500 Subject: Spielberg & Spielberg Everyone's familiar with Volker Spielberg now, and it seems probable that his involvement with the AA footage is responsible for some of the claims that _Stephen_ Spielberg had been given authentic Roswell footage by the government. I wanted to know if there are still any stories about Stephen Spielberg (sp: "Steven"? Sorry!) actually having rights to a film about Roswell (whether fiction or "documentary.") Is the "Close Encounters" Spielberg still in the picture in any way? Thanks, **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:39:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 00:36:55 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Mmm...that Linda case...it's like the Energizer Bunny....it just keeps going. John asks some excellent questions. > From: legion@werple.net.au > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > This has always puzzled me: why did Ms Kimball think that "re: > Brooklyn Bridge" would have held any significance for Budd? Despite > the alleged size of the Linda abduction event -- many stalled cars, > hysterical witnesses running about, etc -- it never made the media. > No newspaper reports, no television coverage. How did Ms Kimball know > that Budd would have heard about the Brooklyn Bridge incident and > eagerly pluck her envelope out from amongst the hundreds he receives > each year? She thought he would certainly have heard from others. But about the size of the event...I've had discussions with others about that, though privately. The first thing to understand is that there aren't many cars on the Brooklyn Bridge around 3 AM on a Wednesday. Oh, I know, we're the city that never sleeps, but things do slack off around then. I imagine Ms. Kimball was seeing the events on the bridge through the filter of her own panic and excitement. We should picture a handful of cars stopped on the bridge, close enough to see each other, but not bumper to bumper traffic all paralyzed together, with something approaching mass panic. The next thing to realize is that lots happens here without ever getting in the media. There was a dramatic triple murder on my block, a firebombing of a hardware store (and I live in a highly respectable residential neighborhood), and a tumultous police action at the nearest subway station, with police vehicles screeching to a halt, and a phalanx of officers rushing down the subway steps. Not a word of any of this appeared in the papers; not a peep on TV. A friend and I once saw a commercial jet fly breathtakingly low over Fifth Avenue, finally disappearing south of Manhattan as it flew <beneath> the top of the World Trade towers. That was as amazing, in some ways, as a UFO sighting, but no one else on the street even looked up. Nothing in the paper, of course. So if a handful of cars stopped on the Brooklyn Bridge at 3 AM, why would the media ever hear about it? Especially when they started again at most a minute and a half later. And yes, there was that little business with the UFO and Linda and the aliens, but that would make people even more reluctant to call TV or the newspapers. If the event had taken place during rush hour, then forget it -- if a thousand cars had all stopped at the same time, probably it would have made the papers. But a handful of cars at 3 AM? No way. > Another question which someone who lives in New York might be able to > answer for me: Are there any surveillance cameras on the Brooklyn > Bridge? Most public bridges and freeways are covered by video > cameras to monitor traffic congestion, weather conditions, accidents, > and so on. Has Budd or anyone else checked to see whether any major > traffic incidents were recorded or documented on the night of Linda's > alleged abduction? As far as I know, this is a very recent development in NY. Our infrastructure, you know....it's a mess. This is a good point, though, and I'll try to check it. But remember that this wouldn't have been a major traffic incident. Again, just a handful of cars, stopping for 90 seconds at 3 AM. Still, if it was recorded on video...and if the tapes still exist, seven years later....we'd know something. > Another question for our friends in New York: Isn't the Brooklyn > Bridge the major landmark friendly New Yorkers try to sell to > unsuspecting tourists? ;-) > Sure is, friend, but now that it's a famous UFO site, I'm gonna have to raise the price. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Aurora and Dark Star From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:40:29 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:12:48 -0500 Subject: Aurora and Dark Star Maybe someone can use this information... I was watching TLC a couple of weeks ago and they showed some video that they speculated might be the Aurora aircraft, due to the unusual appearance of the contrail. They also showed a fellow (in Texas, I think?) that claimed to have monitored transmissions from this plane as it flew overhead. He said that he heard the plane referenced as "Dark Star." A few nights later another show (Discovery Channel?) featured a new remote-controlled experimental plane, and it was shown in flight, along with it's accompanying chase plane. It was referenced as "Project DarkStar. I doubt there's a connection, but I'll hunt up what I can. Tim --
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 UFO ONLINE major update From: Maurizio Verga <mauverga@mbox.vol.it> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 07:36:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:11:33 -0500 Subject: UFO ONLINE major update As a UFO Buff you are likely interested in being informed about the new update of UFO ONLINE, one of the most successful sites currently available on the Net. Actually it is a major update, including great new graphics, pictures and background music, as well as a lot of new stuff. UFO ONLINE has also a new URL address (please change your bookmark accordingly): www.ufo.it What's new inside the site is really well worth a visit, believe me. Please consider to use Netscape Navigator as suggested browser, possibly running at 1024 x 768 resolution. New very interesting updates are scheduled in the next three/four weeks, so please stay tuned with UFO ONLINE. The first fully-searchable database of UFO sightings (including close encounters, trace cases and photographic events) will be online soon. More things will come later on. If you have any question please refer to my e-mail: mauverga@mbox.vol.it If you are a webmaster of a UFO site, please consider to reciprocate a link with UFO ONLINE. We have a huge UFO site links section (one of the most complete worlwide, surely the most commented one !) in five parts and your site is likely already there or could be inserted on your request. In such a case I would need title, short description and complete URL address. If you sell UFO books, videos or other merchandise please let me know accordingly. Enjoy visiting UFO ONLINE ! Maurizio Verga -*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-* MAURIZIO VERGA (+39-31-771600 / +39-368-3007835) e-mail: mauverga@mbox.vol.it UFO ON LINE WWW site at http://www.ufo.it (Italian) http://www.tvol.it/ufo/ufo1.htm (Italian) http://oasi.asti.it/Homes/CISU/english/ufo1.htm (English) -*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: Coincidence? From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:45:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:20:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Coincidence? >Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:49:04 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UPDate: Re: Coincidence? >>>Does anyone out there >> have any thoughts or data regarding the incidence of chance meetings >> (multiple witnesses) and UFO encounters? Are such events coincidental, >> or more likely an "event sociological," as Francois Truffaut puts it in >> "Close Encounters of the Third Kind?" >In the latest Journal of UFO Studies, Stuart Appelle, the editor (and a >university psychologist) says multiple-witness abductions could provide >the most compelling abduction evidence of all. >I've never seen statistics, but there are a number of cases on record. >John Carpenter encountered one, if I'm not mistaken, involving two >people who remembered being abducted together, but only discovered it >many years later. There's also mention of one or two such cases in C.D.B.Bryan's book. ['Close Encounters of The Fourth Kind' - ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:44:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:17:22 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >From: DRudiak@aol.com >Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:03:37 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >>I don't think we know enough about how the human mind responds to magnetic >>fields (generated by geologic activity or not) to make that claim just yet. >>We sure don't know enough about fireballs and ball lightning. >Not many people are aware of just how powerful the magntic pulses >need to be to get any sort of response out of people -- several >orders of magnetic greater than any known geomagnetic phenomena, >plus extremely brief. For example, to stimulate the visual cortex, >you typically need a magnetic field on the order of 5000 - 10,000 >gauss pulsed for approximately 100 microseconds. (The earth's >magnetic field, for comparison, is less than 0.5 gauss). That's >what is needed to get a sufficiently strong induced voltage and >current in the brain to get any sort of response at all. >Moreover the responses are extremely gross, mostly flashes of light, >and only about half the subjects we used experienced even those. It >turned out to be extremely difficult to stimulate the brains sensory >areas, in fact most experiments with magnetic stimulators use them to >*suppress* brain function, not stimulate it. >One colleague of mine wrote a paper in which he tried stimulating the >visual areas of people who had become blind since birth. He said they >reported briefly "seeing" more complex forms like people's faces, but >for reasons unknown he withdrew the paper. Would you be able to pass along that colleague's name? > Even if this anecdotal >evidence was true, there has NEVER been any indication that stimulation >of this kind can produce some complex, prolonged hallucination, much >less shared hallucinations across individuals. The whole idea is >preposterous. I don't know if its preposterous or not. Maybe its takes a lot less to produce in a human what that human needs to produce a hallucination - it doesn't necessarily have to be a totally externally produced hallucination. I wasn't thinking of the alleged phenomenon being something prolonged and/or shared. Why does it take an orders of magnitude greater magnetic field to produce any result in humans when just the earth's magnetic field is sufficient for bird's to detect and navigate? How do shark's differentiate the earth's magnetic field from that of prey? >Gross electrical stimulation like this, say from >lightning bolts or electroconvulsive therapy, scrambles peoples >minds. It doesn't produce delicate hallucinations with a complete >story line. If that were true, hundreds of people every day having >MRI scans in magnetic fields of 20,000 gauss, would be hallucinating >alien abductions all over the place. No argument there. I don't think theories based on this could apply to so-called alien abductions. Maybe they could apply to certain, very specific, sightings. >I might add to this, that the motor nerves are much larger than the >sensory ones, and far easier to stimulate. The person would be >thrown into violent convulsions by such a field long before the >sensory system would respond. I don't recall that being a part of >the alien abduction scenario or incidents like Fatima, also >supposedly "explained" by this geomagnetic theory. I didn't know folks were trying to explain Fatima as a shared hallucination due to magnetic field exposure <grin>. Sounds like a non-starter to me. I have no idea what Fatima was but shared or mass <anything> has pretty much been dispelled in psychological literature. We have to generally conclude that there was a substantial physical component to that event. Also, reports of seeing/experiencing anything other than a very bright light are the minority of Fatima witness claims. Anyway, back to earthlights and magnetic fields. I have this almost entirely non-scientific theory that magnetic field exposure, or a human's ability to detect relative variations in magnetic field strength, is the core operating mechanism in so-called dowsing. These variations would naturally be _very_ subtle variations of the base or ambient magnetic field. Perhaps that ability can manifest itself in other ways, perhaps the source of the relative variation can produce other effects? I dunno.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:45:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:18:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 06:53:09 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Philosophy of Science and UFOs >>Even though I don't like the odds of accidentally including me-too >>data what's the real difference between someone saying they saw >>this-n-that two days ago versus two decades ago? Careful >>interviewing techniques to attempt to detect fraud and/or >>embellishment still apply. >JC: John, I feel exactly the same way. I can't ask for a fairer >answer re. those people and that's all I would hope for. I think one of the _last_ things we want to do is extend that negative sociocultural tendency to not report sightings by further limiting the 'freshness' of the sighting and/or report.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: Attribution and Quoting From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 07:16:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:15:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Attribution and Quoting "for distribution: re. line sizes" >I've made this a public response as I feel it will >benefit The List, trusting that Mr Rudiak will >understand. >ebk >_________________________________________________ JC: I am posting this publically for a likewise reason. >Hello David, >At 03:11 02-03-97 -0500, you wrote: >>From: DRudiak@aol.com >>Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 03:11:41 -0500 (EST) >>To: updates@globalserve.net >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >[snip] Errol wrote: >....snip.... AOL e-mailers also have difficulty >keeping lines of text to 70 characters or less. ....snip.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: David, how are you? Haven't spoken with you in awhile. Hope everything's going well for you. This is the way I've temporarily solved at least this part of the problem, on a Mac while I'm looking for a program that will allow me to set the transmitted lines of text to 70 characters. (My Mac mailer program doesn't have the attribution problem) A. Since I don't want my screen size to be set this small for the rest of my mail, I figured out my window size for 68-70 characters across. Placed the left side of the window flush with the left side of the screen and set the window "size-across" to the above. Then I put a small dot on the monitor, on the right side of the window, at the bottom of the screen on the monitor frame. (So it doesn't disturb the screen.) Now, I can easily pull any new window to that size. B. Then I used the program "Quickeys" (you can use a similar macro program for "Windows") to set up a macro that automatically: 1) "backspaces" once 2) presses "Return" once and 3) presses my "down arrow" key once. It's set to trigger when I press "control 1" One full page on my screen is about 40 lines down. If you set up the macro to repeat automatically for as many lines down as "your" screen size, you've made sure "Returns" are placed after every line for one full page. Just place the blinking cursor at the top of the page _flush on the left_ and engage the macro. Making sure I have an extra blank line of the bottom of the page before I use the macro prevents anything from being erased at the page's end if the macro repeats itself more times than I have written lines on the page. I've made other macros that will do 2, 3, 4, 5 pages, and I can walk away from the computer while it does this. I check it by opening my window to make sure everything stayed that original size. If you ever need to correct one or two lines, just place cursor on the left and manually "backspace-return" those lines. Although it takes a little more time to do a post for the list, it isn't so bad being able to walk away from the machine while it is being done for me. I know I'll eventually get a better solution but this at least has solved the line-length problem temporarily until I find a better solution. Take care David, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:42:16 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:14:14 -0500 Subject: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? If I sent this already, I apologize for sending it again. Feature Story of the Week From: www.CNINews.com IS "DR." LEE SHARGEL REAL -- OR A REAL PROBLEM? Alleged NASA Scientist Arouses Suspicion, Outrage at Nevada UFO Congress by Michael Lindemann The name of "Dr." Lee Shargel first came to the attention of CNI News in mid-1996. A few people in the Florida area where he lives began speaking of him in respectful tones. He was said to have NASA credentials, to be a physicist of some sort, to have inside connections regarding UFO and alien phenomena, and to be ready and willing to divulge important secrets. Then we received a few copies of his four-page (hard-copy) monthly newsletter, the Galactic Observer. We noted that nowhere in this publication did Lee Shargel identify himself by name, nor as a rule did he cite known experts, authorities or agencies in support of his sometimes bizarre claims. It seemed hard to believe that such material could come from a NASA scientist -- unless perhaps it was a joke. But it didn't sound like a joke, either. The Galactic Observer seemed to present a blend of pseudo-scientific fantasy and New-Age philosophy from a disembodied voice of higher knowledge -- apparently the voice of Lee Shargel. After a few issues, we concluded he was more or less harmless, but very likely not a "Dr." of anything. But some people clearly disagreed, especially those who heard him speak. Apparently, Lee Shargel has fluent command of the English language and can be quite a showman behind a podium. And he offers answers that people want to hear -- a who's who of good and bad aliens, details of life on other worlds, inside dope on NASA secret projects. He claims to know. He slings scientific-sounding jargon with ease. He sheds light on mysteries, and offers reassurance that the weird times ahead will, in the end, come out OK. Researcher Bill Hamilton told CNI News, "Dr. Lee Shargel was a big hit in Philadelphia when I met him on November 17, 1996. In a lecture on NASA's contacts with ETs from the planet Cholus, 4th planet of the star Vega, and some of the photos he showed, it seemed like this man could make a real contribution." Of course, there would be nothing at all wrong with such a message, if it were based on credible information. But therein, perhaps, lies the rub. Shargel certainly isn't shy about his presumed credentials. An announcement for his upcoming lecture in Oakland, California states: "Dr. Lee Shargel is a former NASA scientist who worked for the space program as well as the Department of Defense (Navy). He holds a Doctorate in Material Science. He was the program manager for the Navy's SRBOC missile defense system and a project manager on the Hubble Telescope. His theories on Gravitational Wave Physics are part of the basis for the current LIGO (Laser Interferometer Gravitational Observatory) project." Why does such a man suddenly start talking about UFOs? The promo blurb continues: "For years, Lee felt the whole UFO subject was nothing more than science fiction gone awry. But an event that occurred in 1993 changed his perspective forever..."What event? Well, that's in the lecture. And his book. (We didn't see it in Galactic Observer.) On the strength of a last minute recommendation from several impressed listeners, Dr. Lee Shargel was invited to speak at the Sixth Annual International UFO Congress, which ran January 18 through 24 in Laughlin, Nevada. According to people in attendance, this year's Congress has been a major success, with crowds in excess of 500 for the entire weeklong schedule. The speakers' lineup included a fairly dazzling array of U.S. and international UFO authorities, including Whitley Strieber, James Hurtak, Colin Andrews, Michael Hesemann, Stan Deyo, Robert O. Dean, Jaime Mausson, A.J. Gevaerd, Wendelle Stevens, Bill Hamilton and Jorge Martin. Into this lineup came Dr. Lee Shargel. According to conference organizer Bob Brown, Shargel professed to have almost no experience as a speaker. He said he was nervous, hoped he would do all right. But on Wednesday afternoon (January 22) when he took the stage, he proved to be anything but a novice. In fact, Brown says, he was "slick." That was the first surprise. The second surprise was less pleasant. According to Brown, Shargel made claims so outrageous, backed by photos and illustrations so patently absurd, that Brown and most of the other conference speakers then in the audience were amazed. Bill Hamilton described some of the problems he saw in Shargel's Nevada presentation: "...[gun-camera] photos of an airborne craft over Roswell, other UFO photos from New Jersey, the dark side of the moon, in space [that] looked like cheap matte image doctoring... dolphinoid beings from Cholus (an all-water world) which had developed appendages and manufactured technology." Though at first impressed, Hamilton now asks: "Was this man sent in as a disinformation agent now that things are heating up?" CNI News interviewed Bob Brown by phone on Friday, January 24. The conversation centered on the potential problems posed by Lee Shargel. Following are excerpts from that interview. Bob Brown: "Because this [conference] is an open forum, it allows a free exchange of information, but it does open us up to people who are sometimes not straight. I'm not saying that Lee Shargel is not straight, but there are some questions. "In the last couple of days we have verified that he seems to have legitimate NASA credentials. I couldn't say that they're not counterfeited, but they look to be the right badges. "We have found out that there is a Northeastern University, that is, the university he says he graduated from does exist. However, he says he got his doctorate in -- get this -- Egyptian Quantum Mechanics. That's a quote. He told Dr. [James] Harder this, and Dr. Harder said, 'Excuse me? Did you say Egyptian Quantum Mechanics?' And he said yes. So Harder asked, 'Who was your thesis adviser?' And Shargel said he couldn't remember. "But then we get down to the evidence that he has presented to everybody, and to me, most of it looks like the most obvious faked photos that you could imagine. They are really bad, not evidence or proof of anything. We are going to present him at some point with a written request to produce some originals of these so that they can be correctly analyzed. Michael Lindemann: "How would you characterize his presentation, apart from the questionable photos?" Brown: "Slick! He claimed to be as nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof before going out there, but I tell you, it wasn't five minutes before he settled down, and he was up there like a true, slick pitchman. It's quite obvious that this guy has been up in front of groups before. Maybe not talking about the UFO subject, but he is no stranger to getting up and motivating an audience. "This is our concern. It's not our job to put an absolute stamp of approval on everyone that we bring to an open forum. However, when somebody is so blatantly questionable as Shargel is at this point, we feel the need to urge people to be cautious and use some discernment." Lindemann: "I understand that he had a big crowd in the room for his speech." Brown: "He had a big crowd. I would say there were 500 people in the room." Lindemann: "And would you say the crowd was enthused by his speech?" Brown: "Part of the crowd was enthused. It ran the gamut between some people who, at times, he brought to tears, literally -- to some people who stomped out of the room hollering 'charlatan!'" Lindemann: "I understand there were a number of other speakers in the room, people that you and I would both characterize as reputable researchers, who were concerned by Shargel's material. What would you say?" Brown: "Very concerned, certainly, and I suppose 'amazed' is a good word too, because they were kind of incredulous at the evidence that this guy put up on the screen. You'd have to see these pictures that he had. They were ludicrous." Lindemann: "Roger Leir phoned me and described one of Shargel's photos as a purported UFO that appeared to be literally just pasted onto the background." Brown: "Yes, indeed. And he shows a photo, supposedly, of Hale-Bopp coming in, and then off to one side of it is this little craft or probe that's supposed to be checking it out, or checking out the companion behind it. He characterized it as one of the 'bad guys.' And we have lots of scientists here, lots of Ph.D.s in different disciplines, and they just see problems from lots of directions here." Lindemann: "I understand that you and your board and several other conference speakers got together last night (Thursday evening, Jan 23) to discuss the Lee Shargel situation. How would you characterize that meeting?" Brown: "Six of our board members were there, including Donald Ware, Michael Hesemann, A.J. Gevaerd, Wendelle Stevens, Virginia Bennett and myself; and another eight or ten concerned people, many of them Ph.D. scientists, including Dr. Richard Sauder and Dr. James Harder. They were all very concerned about what they were calling the 'hoax' that was being perpetrated by Lee Shargel. The big question was, why would he do such a thing? The answers go from the obvious one of just selling books, clear down to the more sinister one that he might be like a producer for '20/20' [television] to expose how totally gullible the UFO fraternity is, and that we'll believe and swallow absolutely anything. It would affect the entire UFO community if indeed he was a 20/20 producer and ended up on TV, saying, 'You know, Hugh and Barbara, the most amazing thing was, after we made this insane, idiotic presentation with these dummied-up photos that we did in two hours, and we gave them all these clues and all these ridiculous statements, in spite of all that, we even sold them books.' It could be that sinister -- it could set ufology back five years." Lindemann: "Was there any significant dissent in your board meeting concerning your general view of Shargel?" Brown: "No. None, except from Donald Ware, who felt it should not be the Congress' position to attack anyone, that we are only a forum. Other people were trying to convince him of the potential damage Shargel could do. Michael Hesemann put it brilliantly. He said, 'We have done nothing wrong in giving our open forum to Dr. Shargel. But now, knowing what we know and suspecting what we suspect, if we do nothing about it, then we may well be doing the wrong thing.'" Lindemann: "Do you anticipate taking any public step to expose him or challenge his information?" Brown: "At this point, we plan to get together a list of things that we want to see -- for example, at least one of the pieces of filmstrip that his slides of the supposed 'Roswell craft' came from. There's an obvious thing there. If you've got a single frame of movie footage, with two moving objects -- the plane shooting gun-camera footage, and a craft [UFO] moving -- and you look at one frame, that frame isn't going to be clear. There's going to be motion in that frame. These things [his photos] are crystal clear. They're at a dead stop. That isn't possible. This is supposedly 1947 gun-camera footage. And it just wouldn't be like that." [Note: Bob Brown makes much of his living producing aviation films. - ed] Lindemann: "Perhaps a more thorough check of his credentials is in order." Brown: "It is certainly required. He seems to have all the proper stuff, but again, people make a living counterfeiting." Lindemann: "One thing we should realize is that Dr. Shargel, whoever he is, has been around awhile now and has been publishing a newsletter on a regular basis. Therefore, if this is a '20/20' situation, he's carried it to exceptional extremes. This leads me to suppose that he's up to something else." Brown: "Indeed he may be. This might be nothing more sinister than him trying to sell books. Maybe he observed the Celestine Prophecy phenomenon and said, 'How can I tap into this?' I don't know. I hope that's all it is. Of course, I'm making an assumption that the guy is not being truthful, but I don't have definitive proof." Lindemann: "If he is legitimate NASA, or has any legitimate government affiliation, and is clearly putting out incorrect information, then we would have to say that he is performing disinformation, by definition." Brown: "I would agree." Lindemann: "If he's not a legitimate NASA person of some sort, then he's just an out-and-out fraud. It seems to me that those are two strong possibilities. The third possibility, which seems somewhat more remote, is that his credentials are legitimate and so is his information. Broadly speaking, those are our three options. If he's legitimate, of course, we'd all be very interested. But if he's not, then I would say he should be exposed." Brown: "Exactly. When I think of the two hours we gave him, and all the other presentations we turned down to give him a spot, it kind of makes me ill." Lindemann: "Do you intend to issue any formal statement about this?" Brown: "It depends on the reply we get from him. We have asked him to produce certain things. I have him scheduled to come to Oakland [California] on February 8 for a presentation. This was scheduled before I saw him here, taking him on good faith. I could cancel it, but at this point I intend to leave the invitation on the table. Hopefully he will produce some of this stuff and we'll have some definitive answers by then. My personal suspicion is that he won't produce the things we ask of him, but I don't know." CNI News comments: It gives us no great pleasure to cast such doubts on the character or work of anyone in the UFO field. However, we do believe that there is good cause to question both the motives and the information of "Dr." Shargel. We will continue to pursue the details of his background. Meanwhile, it is clearly Dr. Shargel's responsibility to substantiate both his presumed credentials and his seemingly incredible claims, and we hope he will do so without delay.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:45:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:21:39 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:43:24 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >> > >By allowing dubious data into the equations. >> > >The "correlations" only worked when the UFO data included >> > >cases that occurred 6 months prior or after the seismic events, >> > >and as much as 700 kilometres away, >> > Uh-oh. 400 miles away is probably _way_ too distant, >> > but I'd allow up to a 100 miles, maybe 200 miles. >JA: Wrong! Anybody hear of the inverse square ratio! If >there is an effect that large at such a distance someone--the >theorist in this case--will have to demonstrate it. You have >fallen in the trap. This is a "theory" is conjecture based >on bad science. Allow?.... allow 100 miles? I don't allow >anything. Show me! If this effect is there, it is detectable. >Good, detect it! That's what I was mentioning to Chris. How did the time and distance windows become established in the first place? It would seem to me that you start with a good understanding of exactly what an 'earthlight' _IS_. That would then describe their energy source, duration, luminosity, etc. From _that_ you could then establish a reasonable time and distance window. But apparently, according to Chris, nothing like this was ever done - so its all hot air based on newspaper clippings! I'm not doubting Chris but I want to hear that from Persinger's mouth myself. >JA: The theory and the theorist are both suspect. If UFOs are >caused by natural lasers, 100 foot diameter long lasting ball >lightning, electrified moon-dust, annhilation of antimeter >"meteors", or TST, then these explanations not the last step >in the process. The theorist would be expected to be beating >down the doors at the National Academy of Sciences looking for >a multimillion dollar grants to do further studies. However, >these little theories are *only* used to debunk a UFO sighting >after the fact. This appears to be the theory and theorist's >only function. There is no attempt to advance scientific >knowledge. Well, I obviously already have an opinion but I'm going to try to withhold comment until I learn a wee bit more and until I get some confirmation directly from Persinger. >If TST exists the way the theorist claims, it could be a possible >indication of earthquakes. Considering some of the current >rather "far-out" correlations that are being studied (ie >the number of lost pet advertisements in the newspaper.); >CSICOP and Persinger should be beating the drums to do an >UFO-earthquake study. In reality they do not have any such >confidence in their theory. Has CSICOP itself _ever_ done a study??? Anyway, that's beside the point. We're taling about something that is concurrent with seismic activity (I think) and probably not much of a precursor to seismic activity so I doubt (I think) it would have predictability value. I'd like to be wrong about that one though. >TST works for >CSICOPs. Nobody asks, if the this effects are so prevasive >why we don't have people seeing trees outlined in fire, or >effects at ground level, balls of light seen it the middle >of the city or inside buildings? Why do people feel like >they have been abducted only, how about other sencarios? >Good grief! Well, at _most_ TST (or some variation) _could possibly_ explain some very short duration, very non-distinct, DDs and/or NLs. At _most_, and even that remains to be proven. >To say as some, apparently have, that we should exclude single >witness observations because they might be TST is ridiculous. >The UFOs _might_ be dust motes floating in the eyes which was a >very popular theory for the first three years of the UFO era. >_Wrong!_ >In the same vein it is said we should exclude NLs. Because >they are hard to trace down and are probably "conventional" >anyways, just put these reports in the "Too Hard" box. >_Wrong, again!_ I _hate_ NLs, they are and always have >been DLs to me. However, to exclude them: No. >We should be prepared to run screens where pattern searchs >are done without one witness sightings and/or without NLs. >However, to throw them out because you "feel" they are not >relavent is wrong. C'mon, I never meant to actually throw them out. Only to pre-screen them from a first-run analyses of patterns/trends. Does it make sense to include Fred's sighting of a tiny dot of light darting around for 30 seconds in the same database as the Cash-Landrum event? What possible meaningful correlation can we get from_that_ combination? It _does_ make sense to analyze single-witness reports as a unique category, and also to compare patterns/trends between that category and others for correlation though. >Since we seem like electrically induced hallunications so >much, how about a new theory: drug induced hallucinations. >After all, a good part of the population is taking legal or >illegal drugs. How about interactions between ordinary >drugs and food? How about just the interactions about among >foods? Of course, in the early ufo era almost everyone felt >compelled to make a statement about their drinking habits. >I am sure CISCOP would buy this one too. They're easy. >Probably easier than selling tickets on the recue craft that >will take away the select away when the world shattering >events start to occur. Hahahahha!!! You forgot bovine flatulation!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: Spielberg & Spielberg From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Feb 97 08:42:12 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:23:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Spielberg & Spielberg >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:38:47 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: Spielberg & Spielberg >Everyone's familiar with Volker Spielberg now, and it seems probable >that his involvement with the AA footage is responsible for some of >the claims that _Stephen_ Spielberg had been given authentic Roswell >footage by the government. I wanted to know if there are still any >stories about Stephen Spielberg (sp: "Steven"? Sorry!) actually having >rights to a film about Roswell (whether fiction or "documentary.") <Is the "Close Encounters" Spielberg still in the picture in any way? >Thanks, Mac, Stephen Spielberg was NEVER involved. That claim stems from one wrong report in one UK newspaper back in 1995. They apparently only heard Spielberg, and made the assumption that it was the Hollywood Spielberg, not the Rieperbahn Spielberg. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 05 Feb 97 10:39:56 cst Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 13:12:24 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Greg Sandow wrote: >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Author: UFO UpDates -Toronto updates@globalserve.net at Internet >Date: 2/4/97 9:36 PM >Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:24:06 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >I'd talked about "Janet Kimball," the woman who supposedly saw >Linda's abduction from the Brooklyn Bridge. She won't come >forward. Why not? >I'd written: >>The family problem, as I understand it, is that her family >>thinks she's crazy (a) to believe she saw what she allegedly >>claims she saw, and (b)to get involved in any way. They have >>made life difficult for her. >And John, with some sympathetic words snipped, noted: >> But she doesn't have to come forward _publically_. >Her family doesn't want her involved in any way. They didn't >want her talking to Budd Hopkins, either. If she came forward >privately...talking to new people, even with promises of >anonymity, I can understand that she'd feel exposed. And her >family, for whatever reason, would be outraged. Hi Greg, I haven't read Budd's new book, so maybe this has already been explained: How did 'Janet Kimball' know to contact Budd Hopkins after her alleged Brooklyn Bridge sighting of the Linda abduction? Was she already familiar enough with abduction lore to associate Budd Hopkins with her sighting? If she felt strong enough about the importance of her alleged sighting to contact Hopkins, why wouldn't she feel strong enough about it to provide Hopkins with an "on-the-record" affidavit? Doesn't she realize that at this point, all Hopkins has to support the Linda case is hearsay? Doesn't she realize how her equivocation weakens Hopkin's case -- which, if true, would be of great historic importance? Assuming 'Janet Kimball' is a real person, how do you square her willingness to contact Hopkins, with her unwillingness to go on the record? Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:44:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 13:09:09 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >From: legion@werple.net.au >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 05:31:11 +1100 (EST) >Hi Greg; > > Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:58:44 -0500 > > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > > > John Powell and I are still picking over details of the Budd > > Hopkins "Linda" case... >And it's all interesting stuff. > >> From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again (Snip) >Another question which someone who lives in New York might be able to >answer for me: Are there any surveillance cameras on the Brooklyn >Bridge? Most public bridges and freeways are covered by video >cameras to monitor traffic congestion, weather conditions, accidents, >and so on. Has Budd or anyone else checked to see whether any major >traffic incidents were recorded or documented on the night of Linda's >alleged abduction? My wife works 3 blocks away from the bridge John, it'll be an easy enough detail to check out. I'll let you know. (snip) >Another question for our friends in New York: Isn't the Brooklyn >Bridge the major landmark friendly New Yorkers try to sell to >unsuspecting tourists? ;-) And, it's still available at a very reasonable price. I was going to sell it to Bob Guccioni but after some recent bad investments, he finds himself a bit strapped. Give me a call John, we'll work 'something' out! <G> John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html ======================================= Search for other documents from or mentioning: jvif | legion | gsandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #89 From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:07:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 13:10:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #89 >Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 19:23:10 -0600 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alfred Odd Ode #89 (snip) Al wrote, >The comet will be high in the sky, and the current truth >may be plain to see. . .hope somebody brings a big telescope! You won't need a 'large telescope' Al, you'll be better served with a really good pair of binoculars. 7x35 or 50 should be fine. Actually, the eyes that God gave you should suffice, the comet should be big enough and bright enough to be the sky show of the century! If the Indians are right, it will be the sky show of the millenium. <G> Have a safe/fun trip Al, I will miss your "dittys" till you return. John Velez ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Aurora and Dark Star From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:39:10 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 17:55:47 -0500 Subject: Aurora and Dark Star >Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:40:29 -0600 >From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Aurora and Dark Star >Maybe someone can use this information... >I was watching TLC a couple of weeks ago and they showed some video >that they speculated might be the Aurora aircraft, due to the >unusual appearance of the contrail. They also showed a fellow >(in Texas, I think?) that claimed to have monitored transmissions >from this plane as it flew overhead. He said that he heard the >plane referenced as "Dark Star." >A few nights later another show (Discovery Channel?) featured a >new remote-controlled experimental plane, and it was shown in >flight, along with it's accompanying chase plane. It was referenced >as "Project DarkStar. Dear Tim I have been researching 'Top Secret' aircraft for sometime. This is an attempt to offer _another_ explanation to _some_ of the mystery air traffic seen not only in the UK, but accross the World. The Darkstar has been offically anounced. Here is a good news clipping I got off one of my contacts in the States: ======================================================================== The Darkstar Flies ======================================================================== BUSINESS WIRE - March 29, 1996 PALMDALE, Calif. The Tier III Minus DarkStar High Altitude Endurance Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) successfully completed its first flight Friday [at Edwards AFB]. The system successfully executed a fully automated flight from takeoff to landing utilizing the differential Global Positioning System (GPS). At the completion of t[he initial program], the system will be prepared for a series of technical demonstrations with the Services. The program is pointing toward participating in Roving Sands '97 in May 1997. The DarkStar system is a [stealthy] high altitude endurance UAV optimized for reconnaissance in highly defended areas. It will operate within the current military force structure and with the existing command, control, communications, computer and intelligence equipment. It can operate at a range of 500 nautical miles and stay on station for greater than eight hours at an altitude greater than 45,000 feet. The air vehicle can carry either [a high resolution] SAR or EO payload. The DarkStar program is managed by DARPA on behalf of DARO. The prime contractor team consists of Lockheed Martin Skunk Works, Palmdale, Calif.; Boeing Military Aircraft Division, Seattle; and Lockheed Martin Missiles & Space, Sunnyvale, Calif. [END] ---- Thank you for posting the information. Do you know if TLC has a web site as I would really like to get hold of their video clip and report. Did you hear any references to a plane called 'The Black Manta'??? Thanks again! ______ /__ __\ - Ian Read \\_\/_// - UFON UK Board Director \ .. / - Email - i.read@netcom.co.uk \ / - UFO Discovery - http://people.netcom.co.uk/i.read/ \/ - Newsgroup - alt.binaries.ufo.files
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 14:11:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 17:49:41 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Yet more Linda.... Vince Johnson wrote: > From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > Date: Wed, 05 Feb 97 10:39:56 cst > I haven't read Budd's new book, so maybe this has already been > explained: How did 'Janet Kimball' know to contact Budd Hopkins > after her alleged Brooklyn Bridge sighting of the Linda abduction? > Was she already familiar enough with abduction lore to associate > Budd Hopkins with her sighting? "Janet Kimball" saw Budd on some TV show. Not one she had sat down to watch. She had the TV on, and something with Budd came on. She wasn't familiar with abduction lore at all. This is consistent with how most people find him. As I've mentioned here before, I've read his unopened mail. People contacting him for the first time have either read his books, or seen him on TV. > > If she felt strong enough about the > > importance of her alleged sighting to contact Hopkins, why wouldn't > > she feel strong enough about it to provide Hopkins with an > > "on-the-record" affidavit? Doesn't she realize that at this point, > > all Hopkins has to support the Linda case is hearsay? > > Doesn't she realize how her equivocation weakens Hopkin's case -- > > which, if true, would be of great historic importance? > > Assuming 'Janet Kimball' is a real person, how do you square her > > willingness to contact Hopkins, with her unwillingness to go on the > > record? Does she care about Budd's case? For what it's worth, I've asked Budd to make this appeal to her myself -- talk to someone else, even privately, for the sake of my credibility. But what's it to her? I wrote about this problem in an earlier message. We're all caught up in UFO research, those of us on this list. We put things into a much larger context than Janet Kimball does. One big reason that she contacted Budd was that she saw something that profoundly troubled her. (Forgive me if I leave out all the usual "allegedly"s. Maybe someday I'll program a keystroke to type that word!) She needed to get it off her chest, and feel that she'd done something to help with whatever the situation might be. Having done that, she feels that she's done her part. And also, as I've been saying, her family is reportedly hounding her to stay uninvolved. That's surely not uncommon in UFO matters. Kimball wouldn't be the first to not want to be publicly identified with UFOs. Finally, it's not uncommon for journalists to get calls from people who don't want their names used, and want to slip back into the woodwork once they've finished talking. You have to be working on an important story, and you have to be doing it long enough for people to know you're involved. If you're working on something really public, though, you'll get calls. I don't find any contradiction between Kimball's coming forth originally, and wanting no part of it any more now. Greg Sandow Search for other documents from or mentioning: gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: Volker Spielberg From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 05:34:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 17:51:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Volker Spielberg Bob Shell wrote: > Date: 04 Feb 97 14:39:46 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Volker Spielberg > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Volker Spielberg > >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 03:46:35 -0000 > >From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >I may be duplicating an earlier discussion but has anyone investigated > >Volker Spielberg. I view of his importance to the business of solving > >the mystery of these 'alien autopsy' tapes, what do we actually know of > >him? [snip] > >Does he exist? For all we know he may be an actor, as may the clumsy > >'cameraman'. Has he been interviewed? Directly, I mean. Second-hand > >info (X said Y said this or that) is what has caused so much confusion > >and wasted effort on this topic. [snip] Dear colleagues, I can confirm also that UFO rersearchers from Italy, namely Maurizio Baiata has also met Volker Spielberg. This was after the May 5th l995 screening of the autopsy film in London. I believe it was here that Michael Hesemann met him also. I have a photograph of Santilli and Spielberg together taken after the May 5th screening in a pub. This was supplied to me by my colleagues in Italy who were there that day and it should appear in our book 'Beyond Roswell'. However, I do feel that we should endeavour to meet with Volker and discuss things with him in greater detail. I am hopeful that Bob Shell will be able to do this and examine the film at the same time. All the best, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 14:26:44 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 17:52:31 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:45:19 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:43:24 -0800 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >> > >By allowing dubious data into the equations. > >> > >The "correlations" only worked when the UFO data included > >> > >cases that occurred 6 months prior or after the seismic events, > >> > >and as much as 700 kilometres away, > >> > Uh-oh. 400 miles away is probably _way_ too distant, > >> > but I'd allow up to a 100 miles, maybe 200 miles. > > >JA: Wrong! Anybody hear of the inverse square ratio! If > >there is an effect that large at such a distance someone--the > >theorist in this case--will have to demonstrate it. You have > >fallen in the trap. This "theory" conjecture is based > >on bad science. Allow?.... allow 100 miles? I don't allow > >anything. Show me! If this effect is there, it is detectable. > >Good, detect it! > > That's what I was mentioning to Chris. How did the time and distance > windows become established in the first place? > > It would seem to me that you start with a good understanding of exactly > what an 'earthlight' _IS_. That would then describe their energy source, > duration, luminosity, etc. From _that_ you could then establish a > reasonable time and distance window. James McDonald wrote a paper on earthquake lights and the energy needed to produce them. I agree with your comments here. > But apparently, according to Chris, nothing like this was ever done - so > its all hot air based on newspaper clippings! > I'm not doubting Chris but I want to hear that from Persinger's mouth myself. > >JA: The theory and the theorist are both suspect. If UFOs are > >caused by natural lasers, 100 foot diameter long lasting ball > >lightning, electrified moon-dust, annhilation of antimatter > >"meteors", or TST, then these explanations not the last step > >in the process. The theorist would be expected to be beating > >down the doors at the National Academy of Sciences looking for > >a multimillion dollar grants to do further studies. However, > >these little theories are *only* used to debunk a UFO sighting > >after the fact. This appears to be the theory and theorist's > >only function. There is no attempt to advance scientific > >knowledge. > Well, I obviously already have an opinion but I'm going to try to withhold > comment until I learn a wee bit more and until I get some confirmation > directly from Persinger. > I have some of his writing but not all by a long shot. > >If TST exists the way the theorist claims, it could be a possible > >indication of earthquakes. Considering some of the current > >rather "far-out" correlations that are being studied (ie > >the number of lost pet advertisements in the newspaper.); > >CSICOP and Persinger should be beating the drums to do an > >UFO-earthquake study. In reality they do not have any such > >confidence in their theory. > Has CSICOP itself _ever_ done a study??? Anyway, that's beside the point. No, it might be too much to say they endorse the theory. But they are in there cheering. > We're taling about something that is concurrent with seismic activity (I > think) and probably not much of a precursor to seismic activity so I doubt > (I think) it would have predictability value. I'd like to be wrong about > that one though. Well, if Persinger is correct about the window being six months, then it's EUREKA and off to a the scientific study of UFO sightings to predict Earthquakes--with huge grants from everyone. > >TST works for > >CSICOPs. Nobody asks, if the this effects are so prevasive > >why we don't have people seeing trees outlined in fire, or > >effects at ground level, balls of light seen it the middle > >of the city or inside buildings? Why do people feel like > >they have been abducted only, how about other sencarios? > >Good grief! In fairness to Persinger he does use TST to explain some apparitions of the Virgin Mary with this theory. Aside: Also, interesting was an article I found from the 1930's in which a "ghost hunter" said he thought most ghost were caused by magnetic fields effects on the brain. > Well, at _most_ TST (or some variation) _could possibly_ explain some very > short duration, very non-distinct, DDs and/or NLs. At _most_, and even > that remains to be proven. Yes, agreed. The important word is "could." > >To say as some, apparently have, that we should exclude single > >witness observations because they might be TST is ridiculous. > >The UFOs _might_ be dust motes floating in the eyes which was a > >very popular theory for the first three years of the UFO era. > >_Wrong!_ > >In the same vein it is said we should exclude NLs. Because > >they are hard to trace down and are probably "conventional" > >anyways, just put these reports in the "Too Hard" box. > >_Wrong, again!_ I _hate_ NLs, they are and always have > >been DLs to me. However, to exclude them: No. > >We should be prepared to run screens where pattern searchs > >are done without one witness sightings and/or without NLs. > >However, to throw them out because you "feel" they are not > >relavent is wrong. > C'mon, I never meant to actually throw them out. Only to pre-screen them > from a first-run analyses of patterns/trends. > Does it make sense to include Fred's sighting of a tiny dot of light > darting around for 30 seconds in the same database as the Cash-Landrum > event? Someone's CE could be someone else's NL. Back to Ruppelt and Michel. Put everything in there and look for patterns. Fine. You can also do screens. Multiple witness, CE, with CAVU if you wish. There are people who do throw NLs out. I talked to Hayden Hewes. When he disposed of his material, that is exactly what he did. Not that I classify him among the great investigators of our time, he did accumulate a huge amount of material when he left the field. What possible meaningful correlation can we get from_that_ combination? It remains to be seen. > It _does_ make sense to analyze single-witness reports as a unique > category, and also to compare patterns/trends between that category and > others for correlation though. > >Since we seem like electrically induced hallunications so > >much, how about a new theory: drug induced hallucinations. > >After all, a good part of the population is taking legal or > >illegal drugs. How about interactions between ordinary > >drugs and food? How about just the interactions about among > >foods? Of course, in the early ufo era almost everyone felt > >compelled to make a statement about their drinking habits. > >I am sure CISCOP would buy this one too. They're easy. > >Probably easier than selling tickets on the rescue craft that > >will take away the select away when the world shattering > >events start to occur. > Hahahahha!!! > You forgot bovine flatulation! Silly me, how could I be so careless? Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Re: 'TST' [Tectonic Strain Theory] From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:50:35 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 17:54:12 -0500 Subject: Re: 'TST' [Tectonic Strain Theory] > Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:45:19 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >> > >By allowing dubious data into the equations. > >> > >The "correlations" only worked when the UFO data included > >> > >cases that occurred 6 months prior or after the seismic events, > >> > >and as much as 700 kilometres away, > >fallen in the trap. This is a "theory" is conjecture based > >on bad science. Allow?.... allow 100 miles? I don't allow > >anything. Show me! If this effect is there, it is detectable. > >Good, detect it! > That's what I was mentioning to Chris. How did the time and distance > windows become established in the first place? Well, my guess is that Persinger realized that the data fit best when he introduced the lag and lead time. In his articles, he argues that UFOs are akin to meteorological phenomena which require long periods of time and large volumes of air to be considered in equations in order to make weather prediction equations work. > It would seem to me that you start with a good understanding of exactly > what an 'earthlight' _IS_. That would then describe their energy source, > duration, luminosity, etc. From _that_ you could then establish a > reasonable time and distance window. I agree. Instead of deciding how data explains a theory, refine the theory first and establish a mechanism. > But apparently, according to Chris, nothing like this was ever done - so > its all hot air based on newspaper clippings! > I'm not doubting Chris but I want to hear that from Persinger's mouth myself. <sigh> I should have known it would come to this. After all my admonishments that people shouldn't accept wacko UFO ideas without rationally examining the evidence, my warnings are getting turned back at me. Now I can kind of see how Phil Klass feels! ;) You *are* doubting me, of course. And well you should. After all, that's why I started taking a good look at Persinger's TST in the first place. His approach seemed so ridiculous that I couldn't believe people were supporting his theory. So, I went to the university library and obtained copies of *all* his published articles and read them in detail. Only after doing that was it apparent that the TST was not backed by any physical mechanism and that his methodology was flawed. But geez, guys, I'm the only person who has taken the time to read through his stuff and actually publish articles critical of his research. If you're not going to believe me, why believe Persinger? <sigh> Okay, as for the newspaper clippings ... I have already packed away the 100+ articles by Persinger in several boxes, thinking I'd never need them again and that the issue was dead. (I'm not going to dig through my boxes in storage for this query. However, I can see that if Persinger does answer, denying he used clippings, I might have to do it anyway.) I seem to recall that one article in which he explains his use of newspaper and magazine sources as data was one where he correlated ESP and psychic events with geophysical data. My guess is that it was of of his hundreds of papers in the journal Perceptual and Motor Skills, probably about TST paper number 40 or so. Rather than wait for Persinger, why don't *you* go to the library and do a SocLit/ISI search for articles by Persinger with the keyword "ESP"? Then, of course, you'd find the article and find the reference. However, then people could assert that you and I were in the conspiracy together and it would take a *third* person to look for it. But then the three of us would be in it together .... > >JA: The theory and the theorist are both suspect. If UFOs are > Well, I obviously already have an opinion but I'm going to try to withhold > comment until I learn a wee bit more and until I get some confirmation > directly from Persinger. Like I say, do the research first yourself! Why believe Persinger at face value? > >CSICOP and Persinger should be beating the drums to do an > >UFO-earthquake study. In reality they do not have any such > >confidence in their theory. > Has CSICOP itself _ever_ done a study??? Anyway, that's beside the point. No it's not. I already asked Sheaffer about Persinger. He told me that Persinger flamed him something fierce. He was, in no uncertain terms, not impressed with Persinger's TST. *However*, Susan Blackmore has endorsed Persinger's "magic helmet" on several occasions. I wrote her with my objections, but she never replied. > >CSICOPs. Nobody asks, if the this effects are so prevasive > >why we don't have people seeing trees outlined in fire, or > >effects at ground level, balls of light seen it the middle > >of the city or inside buildings? Why do people feel like > >they have been abducted only, how about other sencarios? Some of my own points, exactly. > Well, at _most_ TST (or some variation) _could possibly_ explain some very > short duration, very non-distinct, DDs and/or NLs. At _most_, and even > that remains to be proven. Yes, that's my view. Sheesh. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1b From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:19:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 22:09:37 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1b =3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1b continued from 1a (2 of 2) ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's:=20 "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by Jerry Cohen=20 =3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D re: GORDON COOPER'S GENERAL CREDENTIALS: Getting back to Gordon Cooper. Although Cooper was in fact one=20 more pilot making a UFO claim(s), as Mr. Oberg noted he was a=20 special one indeed; one who's superior skills, coordination,=20 reflexes, senses, intellect for task, etc. finally led to his=20 being selected for our space program. He was not your average=20 pilot. A person of Cooper's ability and stature, who had worked=20 as hard as he must have to get where he was, certainly would not=20 place himself in a position where his judgment, character and=20 reputation in general might possibly be compromised unless he felt=20 positive about what he had seen. Cooper was certainly not known=20 to be a hallucinator or he would not have been selected for so=20 demanding a position. He had a great familiarity with things=20 flying "in the air" as it was part of his job to be familiar with=20 such things.=20 OVERLOOKED IMPORTANT PIECES OF "SOLID" EVIDENCE from Cooper's=20 statements: =20 With this firmly in mind, we therefore must also note that in=20 paragraph seven, Mr. Oberg quotes Cooper as saying "People have=20 seen flying saucers at close hand. And in many cases they have=20 been verified on radar. It is ridiculous for anyone to say that=20 they're all completely unreal."=20 J.C. In the latter portions of my essays, I will present solid,=20 certified, documented evidence to show that this statement of=20 Cooper's is not only 100% correct but also, in the case of=20 radar/visual sightings, some of the most compelling evidence=20 confirming both the existence of UFOs and their level of=20 technology. c. Without getting lost in discussing the pages of proof=20 submitted regarding the supposed enhancements to Coopers=20 statements which Mr. Oberg attempted to demonstrate were created=20 by other individuals, I will concede that it is human nature for=20 people to build upon stories, misquote information, fabricate,=20 etc., especially if there is money to be made from same or=20 possibly, careers to be made in newspaper journalism. UFO=20 researchers are well aware of this. However, contrary to what Mr.=20 Oberg would have us believe, some professional UFO researchers=20 actually do follow a general rule that one must "take with a grain=20 of salt" second-hand accounts, sources, etc. relating to UFO=20 claimed incidents and, instead concentrate on examining initial=20 reports and how they correlate with other reports from the same=20 general time period. (i.e. Otherwise, one indeed might devote=20 inordinate amounts of time on accounts possibly containing=20 inaccurate, story-built, unreliable evidence while possibly=20 overlooking other solid, verified evidence that one never had time=20 left over to find.) MORE ON SECOND-HAND ACCOUNTS: This particular researcher, attempting to find "solid" evidence,=20 has tried his best to avoid this pitfall. I normally treat=20 delayed response, second-hand books or accounts as "second-hand"=20 evidence; material that demands extreme scrutiny and caution in=20 its use. What is important to note here, however, is that if a=20 person did accidentally fall into this trap regarding one case (if=20 actually proven via solid documentation and the accused accorded a=20 fair rebuttal), this does not prove he or she did so intentionally=20 and should not automatically refute the entire body of that=20 individual's work, especially if he/she had generally been=20 considered to be conscientious and generally meticulous in most of=20 the rest of his efforts in that area of expertise. That person's=20 research should still be examined on a case by case basis. One=20 mistake should not invalidate that person's entire work otherwise=20 Mr. Oberg's own lifetime body of criticism regarding UFOs might=20 also thereby be dismissed in total because he spent inordinate=20 time discussing these second-hand versions (a "no-no" in itself!)=20 without providing adequate solid proof to substantiate the=20 entirety of his accusations, some of which verged on slander. ON THE HUMAN IMPERFECTION OF SCIENTISTS: Likewise, one might be forced to discount the bulk of Dr. Edward=20 Condon's previously fine work after many scientists realized the=20 conclusions he reached in the Colorado Study were not supported by=20 the data in the Colorado Study itself. One would also be forced=20 to consider a similar indictment concerning members of the=20 National Academy of Sciences who endorsed it. This of course=20 would be ludicrous. (This preceding historical highlight will be=20 completely discussed in my documented essays) ON COOPER'S UFOs OVER GERMANY: Mr. Oberg, himself, goes to great length analyzing what he claims=20 are such cases of inaccurate story building from various books and=20 sources he mentions in order to point this out to us.=20 (Unfortunately, omitting solid documentation in certain key places=20 that might provide proof of his claims.) One example occurs in=20 his analysis concerning Gordon Cooper's claims of UFOs over=20 Germany. He has used supposed "witness" accounts from a dozen or=20 so people who responded to him saying they never had the=20 experience which Cooper claims to have had, to prove to us that=20 Cooper was mistaken in what he says he saw and that (=B6 74 "The=20 popular version of the legend, placing the action in Germany in=20 1951, simply cannot have occurred as Cooper has described it -- if=20 the vast majority of the wirnesses are to be believed.") =20 However, what rightly should have been said was "....if the vast=20 majority of people who RESPONDED are to be believed." Readers=20 must, in all fairness, realize that since they didn't "see it,"=20 those individuals cannot be properly referred to as "witnesses." =20 Dr. J. Allen Hynek, after studying UFO reports as a prime=20 scientific consultant for the Air Force for many years had this to=20 say in his "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company=20 1972.hardcover.Chapter 1.The Laughter of Science.p.9 =B6 4: "some of the very best reports have come from scientifically=20 trained people.... These reports are usually rarely published=20 however, because the person usually requests anonymity." =20 Therefore, it is certainly not "written in stone" that the people=20 who actually witnessed what Cooper says he did would readily come=20 forth to talk about it. In reality, one must totally understand=20 the Air Force's position on UFOs, the penalties it imposes on=20 those that break the silence, and observed it from Hynek's=20 perspective as consultant to the Air Force in order to properly=20 determine the true validity of some of Mr. Oberg's data in this=20 regard. COOPER'S ATTEMPT TO RETAIN THE ACCURACY OF HIS CLAIMS: As Mr. Oberg mentioned, Cooper went out of his way to counter=20 anyone who attributed statements to him he did not make. (Oberg =B6=20 12-16 "Columbia Pictures case", =B6 18 "In spite his often=20 involuntary association with such activities, the quality of=20 Cooper's testimony has been universally recognized. His=20 integrity, intelligence, and technical competence have never been=20 questioned.", =B6 31 "In a 1978 letter to me, Cooper stressed 'the=20 non-occurrence of a sighting on Mercury 9' ") =20 Although stopping short of saying Cooper lied concerning his=20 claimed sightings, it was implied that Cooper exaggerated, his=20 memory wasn't accurate or Cooper was guilty of "story building"=20 regarding his accounts. Since Mr. Oberg, himself, demonstrated=20 that Cooper made repeated attempts to keep the accuracy of his=20 initial claim in tact, sans extraneous details provided by others,=20 it becomes difficult for this reader to accept that Cooper was=20 guilty of "story building." Furthermore, as previously stated, it=20 is not fair or necessarily accurate to claim that some of the=20 researchers in question did not carefully check their sources=20 before printing the body of information they displayed, without=20 some sort of rebuttal from them. Unfortunately, some of the=20 finest of the ones mentioned are not alive today to make that=20 rebuttal. Since expecting the dead to perform this feat is asking=20 something just slightly beyond the capabilities of even the most=20 competent, professional researcher, others like myself will have=20 to do some of it for them, the best we can. DISAGREEMENT CONCERNING SLANDEROUS STATEMENTS AND INNUENDO: Another bone of contention occurs when Hynek is slandered at the=20 essays end with the following statement: (=B6 76, 77) , "But=20 solving the cases was the last thing the UFO promoters were=20 interested in. ...." J.C. This statement shows a general lack of knowledge=20 concerning Dr. Hynek's life, career and motives. This statement=20 does not lie true with what I and others have personally=20 researched concerning Hynek over the years. Inadequate proof has=20 been presented to make so broad an assumption. I will demonstrate=20 this completely as we proceed in these essays. "People who have used Cooper's stories to 'prove' the reality=20 of UFOs (respected ufologists such as Frank Edwards, Leonard=20 Stringfield, J. Allen Hynek, and less respected ones such as=20 Timothy Beckley) seem to have neither known nor really cared about=20 the real truth behind the stories........" J.C. This, too, is a blanket statement concerning all the=20 individuals mentioned and has certainly not been adequately proven=20 concerning any one of them. Also, it has not been proven that=20 Cooper was not telling the truth. Hynek, Stringfield and Edwards=20 have passed on and cannot respond to this. However, Hynek's=20 revelations concerning Project Blue Book and my own to-be- illustrated connection between the cases I will present from 1957=20 will certainly demonstrate the possibility, if not probability,=20 that Cooper may well have been telling the truth. "Their goal evidently was to piggyback on Cooper's reputation=20 to further their own ufological careers, not to take the=20 opportunity to see what Cooper's actual experiences could teach=20 them about the real UFO phenomenon. The truth behind Cooper's=20 stories was the last thing that seemed to interest them." J.C. Again, an assumption on the author's part. Unless one was=20 there with Gordon Cooper, no one can know what his actual=20 experiences were. I can speak with confidence from my own=20 research that Dr. Hynek's work was sincere. The following=20 statement attributed to Hynek by Mr. Oberg does not appear to have=20 been made by a person trying to hide his mistakes. "Oberg =B6 15 Hynek later admitted he had made a mistake=20 in allowing the newspaper to compile the article from his previous=20 publications while paying him a fee for the use of his name as=20 author -- since he hadn't reviewed the written material prior to=20 publication. Such are the perils of UFO journalism." Being misled by the intentions of a publisher in one instance, if=20 the facts are actually as Mr. Oberg has stated, should certainly=20 not brand one a general fabricator. I would hope there would be=20 others who will rise to Dr. Hynek's defense in this regard. Dr.=20 James McDonald is certainly due this accord as well. BRIEFLY REGARDING MCDONALD: Oberg =B6 47 In fact, McDonald had described his findings on=20 July 29,1968, during his testimony on UFOs to a congressional=20 committee. This is the way he described it: "James D. Bittick and=20 John R. Gettys... were at the time Askania cameramen on the test=20 range, and spotted the domed disk UFO just as they reached Askania=20 #4 site at Edwards, a bit before 8:00 AM that day [JEO: Compare=20 this with Beckley's account of "after lunch" -- evidently pure=20 dramatization]. They immediately got into communication with the=20 range director, Frank E. Baker, and asked if anyone else was=20 manning an Askania that could be used to get triangulation shots.=20 Since no other camera operators were on duty at other sites, Baker=20 told them to fire manually, and they got a number of shots before=20 the object moved off into the distance. Bittick estimated that the=20 object lay about a mile away when they got off the first shot,=20 though when first seen he put it at no more than 500 yards off. He=20 and Gettys both said it had a golden color, looked somewhat like=20 an inverted plate with a dome on top, and had square holes or=20 panels around the dome. Gettys thought that the holes were=20 circular, not square. It was moving away from them, seemed to glow=20 with its own luminosity, and had a hazy, indistinct halo around=20 its rim, both mentioned. The number of shots taken is uncertain:=20 Gettys thought perhaps thirty. The object was lost from sight by=20 the time it moved out to about five miles or so, and they did not=20 see it again.... The photos were shortly taken by base military=20 authorities and were never seen again by the men. In a session=20 later that day, Bittick [was] informed that they had seen a=20 weather balloon distorted by the desert atmospheric effects." Oberg =B6 48 When I told Gettys in 1982 that McDonald had=20 used his case in congressional testimony, the UFO witness was=20 pleased but surprised McDonald had never gotten back to him about=20 the use he'd put his testimony to. So the pro-UFO people kept some=20 secrets, too!. Dr. McDonald brings a recorded, documented case to a congressional=20 committee and, Dr. Oberg, because of Air Force statements claiming=20 the preceding was a "weather balloon...distorted by the desert=20 atmospheric effects." (500 yards away?) assumes that Dr.=20 McDonald's case is invalid and goes even further, intimating that=20 McDonald did something devious in bringing the case to the=20 committee. Additionally, Oberg clearly states that the witness=20 was pleased that McDonald had done so. Is is possible that=20 McDonald knew he would be pleased? No, that darned McDonald is=20 just trying to be sneaky. Further along, I will provide 1) another case that McDonald=20 presented to the various science groups that leaves no doubt as to=20 meticulousness of the man and the completeness and honesty of his=20 research and 2) that statistics regarding UFOs, derived from the=20 Air Force's "Project Blue Book" were, as Hynek put it, "a=20 travesty," and additional clear evidence, dating back to at least=20 1957, that the Air Force has not been telling us everything they=20 know regarding UFOs. ON CLOSED-MINDED SKEPTICS LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE OF UFOs Since facts count, it is also important to be aware of the=20 following: If a person, not necessarily consciously, does not=20 want to find evidence of UFOs (or any subject for that matter), he=20 could spend an eternity finding an infinite number of places this=20 evidence does NOT exist. He could look in people's homes, travel=20 to other countries, visit an unimaginable number of uninhabitable=20 planets (if he were capable), examine every "story built, second- hand account" in existence relating to that subject, or ask every=20 person that never had that experience, and certainly find in that=20 multitude of places and people, proof that the evidence he is=20 telling himself he is searching for, does not exist. =3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D End: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1b (2 of 2) ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's:=20 "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" =3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D For documented evidence #1, please see: "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.2" Respectfully submitted, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.2 From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:19:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 22:11:55 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.2 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.2 continued from 1b ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's:=20 "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by Jerry Cohen =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - At this point I'm going to present what I believe qualifies as a=20 tantalizing, solid piece of "documented evidence." It certainly=20 qualifies as data. I think it will give us all something to think=20 about in the background as we journey through my next six essays. =20 I am fairly certain it has a connection to Cooper's Edward's AFB=20 claim even though it (the incident in the articles below) occurred=20 approximately three years later. We will eventually discover, if Mr. Oberg's date is correct, this=20 episode has an apparent connection with a similar incident which=20 occurred in 1957, approximately six months *after* the Edward's=20 claimed event. [Oberg =B6 46 When I called John ("Jack") Gettys,=20 one of the witnesses, he sent me a file of material on the=20 sighting, which had occurred on May 3, 1957.] The following articles, occurring 18 years prior to our=20 aforementioned UN discussion on UFOs, were reported quite=20 accurately in the media and apparently gave scientists "pause for=20 thought." They are reprints from two Long Island, NY newspapers. =20 I had cut them out of the papers as a teenager expecting to=20 eventually find some rational answer. I never did. I gave this incident the name, "SKY THING (occurred 1960),"=20 derived from Bob Caro's title, when I posted it on alt.paranet.ufo=20 earlier this year. No one having any explanation replied to the=20 post at that time, so I thought I'd try it here in this forum. =20 Perhaps I had missed someone's posted answer. (Readers can check the articles for accuracy by going to your=20 libraries and examining microfilms on same. Some of you in various=20 parts of the world may have supporting articles of your own. If=20 you do, please let me know. I believe you will be contributing to=20 something really important here.) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D SKY THING (occurred 1960) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Newsday 8/31/60 & 9/1/60 Long Island Press 9/1/60 [Brackets] and interior CAPITAL LETTERS are mine. * * * Article #1: 8/31/60 THEY WONDER WHAT'S UP (Newsday) Chicago (AP) New sightings of a mysterious unidentified object=20 circling the earth were reported yesterday. Data concerning the object was being compiled by Robert L.=20 Johnson, director of Chicago's Adler Planetarium, who sighted the=20 object for the first time Friday with two assistants. Johnson=20 said he had received reports of sightings Saturday and Sunday=20 nights from Georgetown University observatory, Washington, and=20 semi-official space associations. Amateur astronomers from coast=20 to coast and from Michigan to Missouri have reported seeing the=20 object, Johnson added. He said [ "the object appears to be 1/10 the size of the Echo I=20 balloon satellite and traveling about twice as fast. It isn't an=20 artificial satellite or a meteor" he asserted. ] * * * Article #2: 9/1/60 EXPERTS CLOUDY ON IDENTITY OF SKY THING=20 (Newsday) By: Bob Caro It's not a satellite and it's not a meteor. Any astronomer can=20 tell you that. And he can tell you its color and, to some extent,=20 its speed. [There's just one thing he can't tell you - what it is. He can't=20 even guess.] That's the status at the moment of the "week-long nationwide=20 attempt to identify the mysterious REDDISH object that has been=20 circling the earth since last Thursday." Astronomers all over the=20 country admit that they're puzzled. One, Frank Judson of=20 Chicago's famed Adler Planetarium says "I've been watching it for=20 days and I don't have the faintest idea what it is." Even taking a picture of the object hasn't helped. [ The Grumman=20 Aircraft Engineering Corp. announced yesterday that a tracking=20 camera at the Bethpage plant had photographed the object at 8:51=20 PM last Thursday. But, a Grumman spokesman added, "all the=20 picture shows is a white line, so we still can't even begin to=20 make an identification." ] The white line, difficult to detect,=20 was barely visible even after the photo was enlarged. Expert observers and just plain citizens have been catching=20 glimpses of the mysterious object in Long Island, Chicago,=20 Washington, Boston, New Haven, Chicago and points west. But the=20 few conclusions that they are able to draw about its behavior only=20 heightens the mystery of what it is. Judson, who has been studying the object in conjunction with=20 Robert L. Johnson, director of the Adler Planetarium sums up the=20 conclusions about the thing this way: "" "It's not a meteor=20 because it's much too slow. And it's not an artificial man-made=20 satellite, of that we're certain. THE OBJECT TRAVELS FROM EAST TO=20 WEST...EVERY ARTIFICIAL SATELLITE EVER PUT UP HAS TRAVELED FROM=20 WEST TO EAST. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY IN WHICH THEY CAN TAKE=20 ADVANTAGE OF THE EARTH'S ROTATION."" " 'THE OBJECT,' JUDSON SAID, 'DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE DECENCY TO=20 MAINTAIN A REGULAR SCHEDULE, LIKE ANY OTHER HEAVENLY OR MAN MADE=20 OBJECT HE'S EVER SEEN.' 'WE DON'T KNOW WHEN TO WATCH FOR IT.' he=20 says." It appears some nights, and some nights it doesn't. =20 Usually it appears at about the time (the) Echo I (balloon=20 satellite) does going in the opposite direction and about twice as=20 fast. What could it possibly be: "Between you and me, I just don't=20 know," Judson said. Then he was asked an inevitable question: =20 "No," he replied, "Definitely not, I do not believe in flying=20 saucers." * * * Article #3: 9/1/60 GRUMMAN FILMS MYSTERY SPHERE (L.I. Press) A mysterious REDDISH object circling the earth has been=20 photographed by a tracking camera of the Grumman Aviation=20 Engineering Corp., in Bethpage, it was disclosed today. Grumman said the photograph was taken by a special tracking crew=20 which has been on watch. [ The flying object appears to be about a tenth the size of the=20 Echo I balloon satellite and traveling about twice as fast. =20 Sightings from amateur astronomers and others have been received=20 from throughout the United States. Robert L. Johnson, director of Chicago's Adler Planetarium, is=20 compiling data on the object. He says it doesn't appear to be an=20 artificial satellite or a meteor. ] [ An added touch of the unusual is the east to west trajectory of=20 the object. Satellites launched by the United States and the=20 Soviet Union have followed the opposite trajectory, west to east,=20 to take advantage of extra speed provided by the earth's rotation.] <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J.C. Again, I respectfully ask : After all these years, does=20 anyone have a reasonable explanation that the majority of us can=20 accept as to what this was? If you give an answer, perhaps we=20 can have other astronomers, aeronautic specialists, etc. comment=20 on same. My own thoughts were: Captured meteorite? Doesn't it have to=20 come in at an angle and flow with the earth's rotation so the=20 earth's gravity can grab and hold it? I distinctly remember=20 newscasters and scientists talking at that time about how we were=20 necessarily using the earth's rotation as a slingshot to shoot=20 things out of our gravitational field to keep the weight down in=20 the rockets which had definite limits as to the weight they could=20 lift out of our gravitational field. I believe "payload" is still=20 a major consideration, even today. A side lobe? If it was, the=20 echo satellite must have had a rocket-propelled, detachable skin. =20 The description given by the tracking stations does not seem to=20 fit the definition Mr. Oberg gave regarding same. Some kind of=20 atmospheric reflection? (not much atmosphere up there by the=20 satellites and nothing to reflect off) Secret military device? =20 We were using our best equipment to get our satellites into orbit,=20 competing with the Russians....and, if it was some sort of secret=20 military device put into orbit going almost twice as fast in the=20 opposite direction of the Echo satellite, then why didn't it keep=20 a regular schedule? It was clearly stated the object did not keep=20 a regular schedule and was going the WRONG WAY, twice as fast. =20 And it was an object, not just an electronic reflection because=20 ... they took pictures of it. It seemed impossible but.......the documented record shows it was=20 photographed and analyzed by the aforementioned minimum of three=20 tracking stations: Adler Planetarium, Grumman Aviation Engineering=20 Corporation (famous for building the lunar module and various=20 types of military hardware), and Georgetown University=20 observatory, Washington D.C. If one were to consult newspapers=20 from other parts of the country around the dates in question, one=20 might possibly find other tracking stations that observed this as=20 well. Perhaps others reading this might supply this too. Now, when it comes to reprints of stories that add details without=20 substantiation, I am as suspicious as the next person. But...when=20 three major tracking facilities report something of this sort, if=20 someone doesn't have a really good answer as to what it was after=20 all this time (35 years later), I would say that it definitely=20 qualifies as documentation of a verified UFO, just outside our=20 atmosphere. Granted, this alone does not prove what UFOs=20 are....only that they certainly exist and we have, at the very=20 least, seen and photographed them. If still unsolved today, it is=20 one of a growing number of pieces of evidence which must be=20 considered in the total picture. Additionally, in =B6 24 & 25 Dr. Oberg states: Oberg =B6 24: By 1967, Frank Edwards gave these details of=20 the event (in Flying Saucers -- Here and Now!, Lyle Stuart, New=20 York). To the question, "Who was the first astronaut to see a UFO=20 in orbit?", Edwards responded: "On the record it was Major Gordon=20 Cooper, over Muchea Tracking Station near Perth Australia, on his=20 final orbit of Earth on a night in May of 1963. The object which=20 approached him was also seen by the two hundred persons at the=20 tracking station. It was reported twice on the NBC radio network=20 before Cooper had been picked up by the rescue craft. He was not=20 permitted to comment on it." Oberg =B6 25: Other details appeared in Is Something Up=20 There (Dale White, Scholastic Book Services, Doubleday, 1968):=20 "The astronaut radioed the tracking station that he had sighted a=20 greenish object moving east to west. This is contrary to the=20 orbits taken by man-made satellites. Nearly one hundred persons,=20 some of them technicians, saw the UFO appear on the Australian=20 radar." Even if the above statement was "story-built" the above "SKY=20 THING" articles prove there was a legitimate reason for one to=20 assume, rightly or wrongly, that the story reported was true. As=20 I said, I was amazed to discover later, the above "SKY THING" case=20 was preceded by a similar incident that happened in 1957. I'll=20 detail both this and how I found it as a finale to everything else=20 I will be presenting. It should suffice to say at this time that=20 Dr. Hynek had been in charge of satellite tracking for the=20 Smithsonian and probably was aware of those tracked events=20 previously mentioned. Combining those events with anomalies=20 scientists had observed in the Baker Nunn network (I'll present=20 this next), information he already had from Blue Book cases, and=20 the fact that an object had actually been photographed, it would=20 have been a logical assumption on his part that the accounts=20 regarding Cooper were probably accurate. Therefore, this=20 indicates, at least to me, that any mistake on Hynek's part was=20 most likely *not* premeditated. I'll give everyone some time to ponder this, go to the library &=20 check out the articles I presented and also perhaps come up with a=20 plausible solution to "SKYTHING (occurred 1960)", before I focus=20 on Dr. Hynek's career, proof of the Baker-Nunn anomalies, and=20 Hynek's significance to our accumulated knowledge concerning UFOs=20 and what the Air Force most certainly knows about them. =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D End: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.2 ---------------------------------- SKYTHING (occurred 1960) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Respectfully submitted, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Anonymous BUFORA-related Scuzz From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 22:16:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 22:16:22 -0500 Subject: Anonymous BUFORA-related Scuzz ebk ____________________________________________ From: anon@anon.com Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:26:58 -0600 (CST) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: BUFORA BLOWS IT! In what some outsiders have called a 'sad move' and others simply suicidal, Philip Mantle has been made Press Officer for the British UFO Research Association (BUFORA). After selling photographs which weren't his to a picture library, using BUFORA as a vehicle for the promotion of the Santilli Alien Video, and making BUFORA a figure of derision everywhere, BUFORA Council decided that the best thing they could do was promote Mr Mantle to Press Officer, where he could do no further damage to the Association. The remote-viewer who observed this charade taking place at BUFORA's Saturday afternoon tea-party reports that only one person had the sense to vote against him despite many of those present having privately said they would earlier. Apparently the sound of 'bottles going' could be heard as far north as Watford. A document previously circulated to Council members and entitled 'Why I Should Be More Important' seemed to have swayed the nits of the round table into going along with all his suggestions. BUFORA have previously stated corporately they believe the Santilli film to be a fake. Philip Mantle believes it to be genuine and has a book out this spring dealing with this very matter. The possibility of any conflict of interest has been vehemently denied by a BUFORA spokesdroid who intoned, "We are a professional body (like the Santilli Alien) and reject totally any suggestion that Philip would confuse either issue." He then sniggered loudly, spluttered 'Not!' and went back to his copy of 'Classic Saucer'.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1a From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:18:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 22:07:30 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1a Begin: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1a Here is my opening response to portions of "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by James Oberg (originally submitted by Dean Kanipe). It is definitely "for distribution" as will be the next seven or so documented essays I will be supplying in rebuttal to Mr. Oberg's essay. For those who feel my research is solid and worthy of viewing in a more permanent setting, this author also gives his permission for the free posting of these rebuttals on any WWW home page, as long as my name is included as the creator of the posts along with my E-mail address. Mr. Oberg's essay and my full rebuttal will be archived on the web at: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates When I first wrote this I thought to myself, "If Cooper still stands by his statement regarding a claimed landing at Edwards AFB, mentioned by Mr. Oberg in 'In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs' (beginning =B6 42), this lends yet further support to three cases I have analyzed and come to the conclusion are verified and definitely related to one another. The claimed Edwards AFB case occurred in the same year." I was unaware of this case until I read Mr. Oberg's essay. Actually, in retrospect I came to realize, the reverse is also undeniably true; "my research concerning several 1957 cases lends strong support to what Cooper has stated regarding the alleged landing at Edwards AFB." Although you will have to wait approximately 6 essays to get to it, those with patience will be amply rewarded. I've got quite a few important, solid facts to present along the way. =3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1a: (1 of 2) ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by Jerry Cohen =3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D PREFACE: One of UFO skeptics greatest criticisms concerning UFOLOGY concerns the fact that, as they see it, a large number of UFO cases are anecdotal in nature and that, as they claim, there is no hard, reproducible documented evidence to back up the stories told by the various claimants. This claim is totally false. On the surface, this would appear to be true as there are a great number of cases which do fall into this category. Because of this fact, one must have a great familiarity with the idiom and its history to discover that this elusive evidence does indeed exist. Some skeptics, being so certain of the impossibility of the existence of solid evidence, view it wearing blinders, never digging deep enough to find what they are almost certain does not exist in the first place or, lacking the hints provided by a thorough knowledge of UFO history, simply look in all the wrong places. In-depth familiarity with the history of the topic and where some of this evidence might be hiding is paramount to discovering its ultimate reality. One important question an intelligent person should ask is "Have there been any well-respected scientists who have studied the topic in depth and, subsequent to their analyses, come to the conclusion that UFOs exist as apparent craft and exhibit traits beyond the cutting edge of our technology? (N.B. UFO =3D unidentified flying objects displaying unusual characteristics and technology which seem to preclude them from being created on this planet.) A second, obvious question should be, "Exactly what did they find?" The answer to the first is unequivocally, "yes." As to the second, I will present documented information concerning two of these scientists, what their research uncovered and how it changed every open-minded person's thinking regarding the study of UFOs. One of the scientists, given negative mention by Mr. Oberg, is none other than Dr. J. Allen Hynek, who was the Air Force's main astronomical consultant to Project Blue Book for twenty years. Within that time period, all official documentation in existence informs us he was closer to the official first hand Air Force evidence regarding UFOs than any other civilian scientist on record. It was his job was to expose UFOs as misinterpretations of normal astronomical, phenomena, etc., (For those not familiar, Blue Book was the Air Force's alleged main study on UFOs. Why I used the word "alleged" will become apparent the further we proceed.) Amazingly enough, it was the Air Forces' own scientific consultant who actually proved to us that the Air Force has not been completely honest with us concerning the reality of UFOs. Solid evidence as to how and why Hynek gradually arrived at this conclusion will also be displayed for the reader. After presenting this recorded, verifiable information, I will present three well documented cases from 1957. I selected these cases because Mr. Oberg specifically discussed a claim that Gordon Cooper made concerning an alleged landing at Edwards Air Force base in 1957. I believe these cases, when examined in relationship to each other, demonstrate a strong probability that the case against Cooper is not as "cut and dried" as Mr. Oberg has indicated. One of the aforementioned cases was analyzed in depth by the Air Force, the Condon Committee, and finally by Dr. James McDonald, then senior physicist and professor of meteorology at the Institute of Atmospheric Physics, University of Arizona. This information will not only achieve the goal I have just mentioned but, in the process, will also give lie to some of the comments made regarding not only Hynek's & McDonald's motivation but also, the overall quality of research performed by Dr. James McDonald, Dr. Hynek and, at the minimum, some UFO researchers. The general public, skeptics, and anyone willing to check the sources I provide can decide for themselves whose research is more complete, accurate and valid. The three cases I have mentioned contain factual. concrete evidence that proves beyond a shadow of doubt that some UFOs can definitely be referred to as "craft", as they contain crucial evidence identifying some UFOs as craft of an unknown type. All of the above will be fully supported and displayed in a series of seven (or so) articles which I will post one at a time, to give people a chance to both absorb them, check the accuracy of the material displayed therein and find flaws, where they may exist. However, some brief comments concerning several points from Mr. Oberg's essay are in order before proceeding any further. +++ =3DINITIAL COMMENTS CONCERNING MR. OBERG'S ESSAY=3D Mr. Oberg's essay was received "on-line" with the page numbers apparently indicated at the bottom of each page but not saying "end p. 1, etc.". I have ignored page numbers and have instead numbered his paragraphs sequentially from beginning to end, hopefully to reduce problems researchers might have in locating those discussed items. The following were observed as extremely short paragraphs: #'s 12, 23, 40 and 51. (between 2-4 lines each) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - J.C. Note: If you become bored with parts 1a/b, feel free to skip to part 2 for a tidbit of documented evidence. Unfortunately, what follows is somewhat tedious but absolutely necessary considering the charges Mr. Oberg has made. Hopefully, you'll read it all. Those with intestinal fortitude, please continue. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Many of the things Mr. Oberg said in his essay appeared to be accurate however, I found it filled with unsupported innuendo. I disagree with several of the conclusions reached and I'm not so certain of the veracity of others as some are anecdotal in nature with not enough supporting documentation to confirm some of the things he says. As an example: re: COOPER'S TESTIMONY TO THE UNITED NATIONS: a. It was stated in paragraph four: "The United Nations maintained a stoic, even embarrassed silence," JC: It was not shown from where this information was derived. Was Mr. Oberg present to observe this? In any of the accounts I had read concerning the aforementioned UN meeting in question, it was never mentioned that people were embarrassed in the least. I have not found Mr. Oberg's name mentioned in the minutes of the meeting. I did, however, find the following names who were among those who testified: Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Lt. Col. Larry Coyne, ex-astronaut Gordon Cooper, Dr. Jacques Vallee & Stanton T. Friedman. 1 b. In a further analysis of those same =B6 4 comments: It was stated: "...nonetheless. Part of Cooper's problem might have been that he was visiting under the auspices of the then dictator of Grenada, the madcap 'Sir' Eric Gairy. Gairy's excesses and crackpottery, added to his alleged corruption and brutality at home, later led to the New Jewel coup-d'=DAtat led by Maurice Bishop, and indirectly to the US intervention five years later." J.C. Although much of what was said in the preceding paragraph may well have been true (and which parts we cannot be sure, as specific documentation was not offered to support same), it has not been adequately demonstrated that Cooper had a "problem" at the time. Also, I am not certain why this material was included in the preceding dialogue except perhaps to impugn Cooper's character by implying that he was somehow in "cahoots" with a "crackpot," corrupt dictator; or that people reporting UFOs must, by association, be crackpots too. The fact of the matter is that the United Nations had previously agreed to have a conference concerning the subject of UFOs. They certainly weren't forced to have this discussion. It is a rather large body of nations. If the topic was totally absurd, they wouldn't have agreed to wasting their time on it in the first place. It most likely was petitioned and had support. As part of the explanatory memorandum Grenada had made in its position paper, the following statement was to be found: "As had been shown by the studies recently commissioned by some countries, many states were deeply concerned with regard to the UFO phenomenon and recognized the urgent need to bring up to date research in the field and to examine the potential repercussions of that phenomenon on security, technological progress and the well-being of individual nations." 2 The truth of the matter is that various countries throughout the world, including our own, had been having reoccurring, documented UFO sightings for quite some time prior to and leading up to this particular historic meeting. I am sure people out there reading this from various countries can supply some of the newspaper articles which would confirm this previous statement. As Mr. Oberg aptly pointed out, Cooper wasn't the first pilot to claim this. A small but solid portion of the evidence in this regard was presented to the United States congress fourteen years prior, in 1964, in the form of an 188 page document titled "The UFO Evidence," edited by Richard Hall, former Assistant Director and Acting Director of NICAP (National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena). The UFO Evidence was a 200,000 word documentary report which contained a compilation of approximately 746 documented sightings by Air Force, Army, Navy & Marine personnel, pilots and aviation experts, other military personnel, observations by professional scientists and engineers, including astronomers and aeronautical engineers. In reality, the main reason the UN did not follow-up further on the proceedings had mostly to do with economics and ongoing world politics. It was not that the prestigious body of nations did not believe some of the documented reports that had been presented but rather, it did not have the monetary resources to do much about such an elusive phenomena even though it had been generally reported around the world. Since the sightings were "sightings" only and not, at that time, adequately documented in the civilian sector as a specific threat or danger to the population, more urgent immediate "earthly" problems simply took precedence over those which displayed themselves in such an erratic (albeit "persistent") fashion. It was a lot easier to ignore them than to deal with them. Our own congress back in 1964 had a similar reaction; congressmen were impressed but did not react as a whole for the same reasons. 3 Our Air Force, Department of Defense and NASA took the position, and continued to claim, there was nothing to the situation and that most sightings had been explained. 4 Therefore, more pressing domestic and world problems precluded this at that time, but.... UFOs refused to go away. Footnotes to "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1a:" 1 Summary of the UN meeting was published in: The International UFO Reporter . vol 3 . No. 10/11 . Oct/Nov 1978 2 Ibid 3 The following are some quotes from congressmen which were on file at NICAP and included in "The UFO Evidence." Some were received after evidence was sent to members of congress in June 1960. They illustrate the "atmosphere" of that era regarding UFOs and document the comments I have made in this regard: ** Congressman Joseph E. Karth (D. Minn.) - 8/24/60 ** "As a member of the House Committee on Science and Astronautics, I, of course, have had contact with high Air Force officers and have had opportunity to hear their comments on and off the record on the subject of unidentified flying objects. Despite being confronted with seemingly unimpeachable evidence that such phenomena exist, these officers give little credence to the many reports on the matter. When pressed on specific details the experts refuse to answer on grounds that they are involved in the nation's security and cannot be discussed publicly . . .I will continue to seek a definite answer to this most important question." ** Congressman Edgar W. Hiestand (R. Calif.) - 9/19/60 (to Secretary of Air Force) ** "I am wondering if we ought now reexamine our policy with regard to Unidentified Flying Objects. Won't you kindly suggest to your associates that the matter be considered? I am apprehensive that right now, in the middle of a campaign, some concrete and well-documented incident may occur, and a sensational revelation could really hurt. After all, although the UFOs are unknown devices, there seems to be enough evidence available to convince that they are real rather than imaginary. Therefore what harm could complete frankness do?. . . " ** Senator Kenneth B. Keating (R. N.Y.) - 6/5/63 ** "I want to assure you that as a high officer in the military myself, I am not overawed or overimpressed by some of the conclusions reached by Air Force officers. As you know, I have no hesitancy in taking issue with other government agencies as to the dangers facing our country. . .I am sorry that there seems to be nothing which I can add to the UFO situation at the present time." ** Senator William Proxmire (D. Wis.) - 1/31/63 ** "The NICAP report (outline) is a fine document which does much to substantiate the allegation made. You probably noted my remarks that 'The very fact that so many inexplicable incidents have occurred is reason enough for a thorough investigation.' I am going to contact the Department of Defense on this matter." 4. ** Congressman Thomas Ludlow Ashley (D. Ohio) - 7/14/58 ** "I have made a number of inquiries of the Air Force relative to its activities in connection with these unidentified flying objects, but have invariably received comment that evidence to date is too inconclusive to sustain any theory but that these objects, are 'hoaxes, hallucinations, or normal meteorological manifestations.' I share your concern over the secrecy that continues to shroud our intelligence activities on this subject, and I am in complete agreement with you that our greatest national need at this time is the dissemination of accurate information upon which responsible public opinion can be formulated. . . " ** Senator Jacob K. Javits (R. N.Y.) - 10/25/62 ** "I appreciate your views regarding the aerial phenomena. As you know, the Department of Defense and NASA have repeatedly denied the existence of such objects." =3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D End: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1a: (1 of 2) Please see part 1b =3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D Respectfully submitted, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 5 Stanton Friedman's Education? From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:00:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 22:18:13 -0500 Subject: Stanton Friedman's Education? Hello Everyone, I don't write here often, but I do have a question. Is Stanton Friedman a Ph.D and if so what is that Ph.D in? I saw on another mailing list where it was stated Dr Friedman has no Ph.D and I thought I heard he did. Thanks for your help for this question. Clark and I are preparing a talk on the history of UFOlogy and would like to include Friedman and want to make sure our information is correct. Regards, Julianne
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:48:03 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 01:16:32 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' Steven J. Powell wrote: >>Gross electrical stimulation like this, say from >>lightning bolts or electroconvulsive therapy, scrambles peoples >>minds. It doesn't produce delicate hallucinations with a complete >>story line. If that were true, hundreds of people every day having >>MRI scans in magnetic fields of 20,000 gauss, would be hallucinating >>alien abductions all over the place. >No argument there. I don't think theories based on this could apply to >so-called alien abductions. Maybe they could apply to certain, very >specific, sightings. I think the specificity you refer to is the variable structure of a given "experiencer's" brain. The brain is an impossibly delicate organ, and it could be that only a very, very small percentage of the population has the brain structure needed to "register" electric fields and hallucinate. More research needs to be done on the temporal lobe. I apologize for not following this discussion from the beginning, but I recommend Albery Budden's "UFOs: Psychic Close Encounters--The Electromagnetic Indictment" for anyone interested in this. He makes a strange, powerful argument, although I suspect that the phenomenon of "signal-linking" is not as widespread as he hypothesizes. **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Spielberg & Spielberg From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:25:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 01:15:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Spielberg & Spielberg Regarding... >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:38:47 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >Subject: Spielberg & Spielberg Mac wrote: >Everyone's familiar with Volker Spielberg now, and it seems probable that >his involvement with the AA footage is responsible for some of the claims >that _Stephen_ Spielberg had been given authentic Roswell footage by the >government. I wanted to know if there are still any stories about Stephen >Spielberg (sp: "Steven"? Sorry!) actually having rights to a film about >Roswell (whether fiction or "documentary.") >Is the "Close Encounters" Spielberg still in the picture in any way?" Mac, Although Bob Shell is correct in saying that Stephen Spielberg was never involved with the "alien autopsy" film, Bob's explanation that the "claim stems from one wrong report in one UK newspaper back in 1995", isn't the actual story. There apparently was a rumour that Steven Spielberg was planning a 50th anniversary Roswell film and that story was featured in the UK newspaper, "The Sunday People", on 9 August, 1992. By an extraordinary coincidence, the article was an "Exclusive by Carl Nagaitis", co-author with Philip Mantle of "Without Consent", a book on "alien abductions". I spoke to Carl last year about the article and he confirmed there were rumours from the US that Steven Spielberg was interested in producing a Roswell based film. On 22 December 1993, the "Daily Mirror" newspaper also published an article about the rumoured Spielberg film and for the first time, also claimed that, "Hollywood insiders say the director has got hold of previously unseen film footage of the flying saucer crash scene taken by a military officer". This could be a reference to Ray Santilli's film, which he had mentioned by this time, but it's not certain. I've spoken to both of the journalists this article was credited to, but neither could recall where the "footage of the flying saucer crash" story originated. It seems that the original story of Steven Spielberg's interest in a Roswell film was coincidental and may subsequently have become confused with Ray Santilli's "Roswell" film story. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Volker Spielberg From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:25:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 01:14:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Volker Spielberg Regarding... >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Volker Spielberg >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 03:46:35 -0000 >From: Bob Rickard <bob@forteana.win-uk.net> Bob asked: >I may be duplicating an earlier discussion but has anyone investigated >Volker Spielberg. I view of his importance to the business of solving the >mystery of these 'alien autopsy' tapes, what do we actually know of him? Bob, Apparently a business associate of Ray Santilli's for some years, Spielberg lived in Hamburg before moving to Austria. As well as "Lollipop Records", he was involved with another Hamburg based company called, "VS-Musik Verlag GmbH". In one of his earliest comments, Santilli mentioned that his own company, "The Merlin Group", had offices in London and Hamburg. Spielberg is now involved with an Austrian based company which, similar to Santilli's line of business, produces CD's and audio tapes. It's a large company, involved with distribution, imports and exports. The only known interview with Spielberg was when the French TV channel TF1 traced his whereabouts in Austria and Jacques Pradel spoke with him. The essence of Spielberg's comments were: "I want to be left alone. I'm a collector, I want to be out, and I want to have no contact with nobody regarding this matter because this is my personal thing....Simply I'm not interested. You see, the whole matter is of no interest to me, I have made up my mind. I have my belief and that's it. And I got what I want. I'm happy and that's it." "What have I to do with this? As to my knowledge, I'll keep all the cans, yes, as to my knowledge, that's all I can tell you. Well, as to my knowledge I am, uh, possess all the film reels. Whether this is true or not, that's not up to me to judge, but that is my belief, yes." >What are his motives for surpressing access? ... can it really be the >equivalent of an antique collector who doesn't really want to know if his >priceless 'Matisse' is worthless crap? I had the opportunity to discuss Spielberg's involvement with Ray Santilli and he provided some background detail which was an interesting insight into the story. Ray also answered some questions on other central issues, but not all of them. In relation to a separate matter, I had extracted this exchange from my files last weekend and passed it on to someone. I think this extract might help you to place the story of Spielberg's involvement and some other key issues in context. I've edited it to remove some unrelated material: February, 1996: James, Volker is one of the greatest extraverts you could ever wish to meet, he collects anything of real value, he is wealthy and has been a business associate and friend of mine for many years. That's how I know him. That's why I turned to him when I needed money. With regard to your other points, I still maintain that the story of the films acquisition is true, certain non-relevant details were only changed to stop people getting to the cameraman. Yes the trip to Cleveland was 1992, Yes during that trip I met Bill Randle but he was one of many people we met. Yes during that trip I met the cameraman and NO the cameramans name is not Jack Barnet, I have always made it clear that the name had been adopted to protect the cameraman's real name.. [...] Best regards, Ray __________ Ray, >Volker is one of the greatest extraverts you could ever wish to meet... Thank you for clarifying this. If I understand correctly, what you are saying is that Volker is not essentially a collector of archive, historic, 16mm film, but a collector per se. If Volker financed the entire purchase, can you possibly clarify how it was possible to sell him some of the film which he already bought!? Why, for example, was it apparently only the "first autopsy" footage which he bought from you and yet he seems to own most of the other film as well? It would help to place matters in perspective if you could. >With regard to your other points, I still maintain that the story of the >films acquisition is true, certain non-relevant details were only changed >to stop people getting to the cameraman.... It was obviously known that the Cleveland visit was 1992 and that any living cameraman could not be the late Jack Barnett! It was however no longer clear whether the initial offer was still apparently made during that Cleveland visit and I'm sure we all appreciate this further clarification. The Cleveland visit took place during July 1992 and if the film wasn't actually acquired until November 1994, this would presumably mean there was a 2 year, 4 month interlude. Initially, it was claimed that the cameraman from whom you acquired the film had worked as a freelance for Universal News and that during 1955 he had filmed some, now musically historic, high-school concerts in the Cleveland area. This claim seems to be based on the life of the late Jack Barnett and the "Pied Piper of Cleveland" footage which he filmed. Is that an accurate conclusion? Would this be an indication of your intention to protect the cameraman's identity? Without obviously now revealing his identity, can you clarify what the actual circumstances were? As you may have seen, last November, Michael Hesemann posted some further insight into the acquisition story. I'm sure Michael won't mind if I briefly quote the relevant details: "...today I met Ray in London (just came back) and spoke with him for about three hours. He told me the full story. He was in Cleveland End of June/beginning of July 1993 looking for early Elvis /Rock n'Roll material...he advertised in the local paper and got hundreds of replys: People who had posters, autographs and so on. JBs son lived in Cleveland at that time and JB visited him for the July 4th weekend and boating on a lake near Cleveland. He saw the ad and contacted Ray. Ray got interested and flew with him to his home town, saw the footage, bought it. There the cameraman who liked Ray and his policy offered him the "other footage"...." Obviously the year is incorrect and it differs from previous versions in that the "Elvis" footage wasn't seen by you in Cleveland (which presumably it couldn't have been if the cameraman was there on holiday and the footage was at his home), but is this essentially a more accurate version of the story? Again, it simply helps to place the whole picture in perspective. [...] Best wishes, James. __________ James, Some answers :- 1. Anything of REAL value, that's Volker (yes per se) 2. Volker put up most of the money, on the condition he could have some film, and we pay him a percentage from any income we can derive from it. 3. I first saw the film during my Cleveland trip and agreed to buy it. However I didn't have the money. 4. Strangely enough if you look back at my earlier statements you will see I stated that it took me over two years to buy the film (no one picked up the mistake with the date) 5. The cameraman did film Elvis with his backing band live on stage in late 1955, it was a short clip of film (around ten mins) but nevertheless very good and yes we purchased it.. He also freelanced for Universal News as most qualified film cameramen did during that time. 6. I cannot state where I saw the film, as this would cause problems. [...] At present it's impossible for me to go any further than I have above. Not because I am being difficult, but if I do the land slide would be formidable, and as mentioned in the past neither I, Volker or the people I work with are in control of the situation. Best regards, Ray __________ Ray, Thank you for the detailed reply, the points which I haven't responded to have been duly noted. There are some points which I would hope you will consider further: >Volker put up most of the money, on the condition he could have some film, >and we pay him a percentage from any income we can derive from it. In summary: - Volker financed the entire purchase - He wanted some of the original, 16mm archive film as it was "unique" - You therefore gave him ("sold" him, as you put it) the "first autopsy" footage - He retains a financial interest in the commercial aspects of the film (not really relevant) Is this now an accurate summary? The key word in your welcome reply is "some". If he only has some, where is the rest of it!!? This is one of the most fundamental points. We know that the following film exists: - tent footage - debris footage - first autopsy - second autopsy If Volker only has some of the footage, as far as we know the "first autopsy" footage, where is the remainder and why can none of it be made available for authentication? >The cameraman did film Elvis with his backing band live on stage in late >1955, it was a short clip of film (around ten mins) but nevertheless very >good and yes we purchased it.. He also freelanced for Universal News as >most qualified film cameramen did during that time. That's a great help. We therefore seem to have a situation where: - Whilst in Cleveland you negotiated the rights on the "Pied Piper of Cleveland" footage, shot in High Schools in Cleveland during 1955 and featuring then up and coming stars, including Elvis Presley. The footage was shot by a Universal News cameraman called Jack Barnett. - Whilst in Cleveland you were offered additional footage, shot in a High School in Cleveland during 1955 and featuring the then up and coming star, Elvis Presley. The footage was shot by a freelance Universal News cameraman whom you subsequently gave the pseudonym of Jack Barnett. No wonder this has been confusing. [...] >At present it's impossible for me to go any further than I have above... Presumably this means you will not be providing evidence that any archive film was ever actually processed. That's obviously very disappointing and still offers no explanation why the evidence you _did_ provide to Bob Shell, simply didn't check out. Why did that happen? Can you give some indication whom you believe the real controllers are? On a more general topic, has the cameraman ever spoken about the filming which took place at Wright Field when he worked on the recovered debris during those 3 weeks? It would obviously be very interesting to have some insight into what happened there. One would assume that some of the most powerful and influential people in the military and government would have been at Wright Field during that time. Has he mentioned any names, any discoveries made during the examination of the debris, any policy decisions he may have heard of? Best wishes, James. __________ Dear James, A small down-payment was made in 92. I couldn't raise the rest which is why I turned to Volker. So he didn't pay the full amount. In return a certain amount of the footage was his to keep and he retained a financial interest in the exploitation through the media. With regard to your other questions relating to footage I cannot answer them right now apart from saying that the only film that is relevant is both Autopsys, Debris and the material contained within the scrap reel most of which has nothing to do with the event but will be of interest as it gives an insight to the cameraman (for example, on the scrap reel there is approx 5mins of what appears to be a local American football game played in a field). Whilst in Cleveland I was offered the Elvis footage I mentioned, it was not a high school performance but an open air one. [...] In time I will be providing evidence, I do not understand the Bob Shell reference Controllers : the cameraman, especially his family feature here. James, out of this recent exchange you have gained a great deal more information than most others, I am not at liberty to go any further at present. I accept that I didn't handle the situation very well at the start, my experience in this field was minimal. What has really interested me in all this is the carefully orchestrated campaign of misinformation and debunking. The UFO community are being manipulated from the outside, and it's not by me. Regards, Ray __________ Ray, Thank you for the additional clarification to the points discussed, I'm sure it's greatly appreciated by everyone. If Volker has a certain amount of the original film and doesn't wish to have it authenticated in any way, that's obviously a great disappointment for everyone else who _would_ like to substantiate the truth behind it's origins. However, it doesn't explain why not even a small sample of the remaining, relevant 16mm film, wherever that may be, couldn't be made available. Kodak's offer to provide the most expert opinion was a wonderful opportunity. [...] I'm sure you appreciate that much of the present uncertainty is simply down to the absence of information and you have gone some way to redressing that, which has been a great help. On which note, the query concerning Bob's comments was outlined in my initial response: "I had subsequently asked if you could possibly confirm who was responsible for processing the entire footage and transferring it to 16mm film, clearly a delicate and specialised operation. Although you had not provided any such details, Bob Shell confirmed that he had asked you in person about this and that, "Film to video transfer was done in London by Rank." He further clarified that, "There was then a general conversation in the office as to who had ultimately done the work. Ray said something like "We ended up having it done by Rank, didn't we?" and Chris said something like, "yes, it was Rank. I'm pretty sure it was Rank."" A simple question really; why did Rank in London confirm they had no knowledge of any such work? Best wishes, James. __________ Dear James, Thanks for the message. For the most part I accept your points, The film was transferred here in the UK. I will discuss your request with the facilities House tomorrow and if they are happy for me to disclose their name (which they haven't been) I will pass it on. Now the dust has settled a little they may not mind. Regards, Ray [End] Ray's offer to put me in touch with the Facilities House, i.e., the people who allegedly transferred the 16mm film to video, came to nothing, as he declined to do so at the last moment. All of the above correspondence with Ray was in public, on the CompuServe MUFON forum. >Does he exist? For all we know he may be an actor, as may the clumsy >'cameraman'. Has he been interviewed? I hope this helps explain the story. We know for certain that Ray was in Cleveland during July 1992 and did acquire a significant collection of Elvis Presley memorabilia, but that's all we can say for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if Volker Spielberg was a wealthy collector, possibly of archive music film, but again, there's nothing to back up the claims of his involvement with the "Roswell" film story. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Anonymous BUFORA-related Scuzz From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 01:17:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 01:17:37 -0500 Subject: Anonymous BUFORA-related Scuzz ebk ____________________________________________ From: anon@anon.com Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:26:58 -0600 (CST) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: BUFORA BLOWS IT! In what some outsiders have called a 'sad move' and others simply suicidal, Philip Mantle has been made Press Officer for the British UFO Research Association (BUFORA). After selling photographs which weren't his to a picture library, using BUFORA as a vehicle for the promotion of the Santilli Alien Video, and making BUFORA a figure of derision everywhere, BUFORA Council decided that the best thing they could do was promote Mr Mantle to Press Officer, where he could do no further damage to the Association. The remote-viewer who observed this charade taking place at BUFORA's Saturday afternoon tea-party reports that only one person had the sense to vote against him despite many of those present having privately said they would earlier. Apparently the sound of 'bottles going' could be heard as far north as Watford. A document previously circulated to Council members and entitled 'Why I Should Be More Important' seemed to have swayed the nits of the round table into going along with all his suggestions. BUFORA have previously stated corporately they believe the Santilli film to be a fake. Philip Mantle believes it to be genuine and has a book out this spring dealing with this very matter. The possibility of any conflict of interest has been vehemently denied by a BUFORA spokesdroid who intoned, "We are a professional body (like the Santilli Alien) and reject totally any suggestion that Philip would confuse either issue." He then sniggered loudly, spluttered 'Not!' and went back to his copy of 'Classic Saucer'.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 02:11:01 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:01:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: 03 Feb 97 11:01:25 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob, > Ray doesn't know much about film, but he knows video. He, or someone > on his staff, realized immediately that the brightness could be cranked > up to see Jack's face. I see. So he sold it to both the Japanese and Bob Kiviat knowing that the face could be recognized. Is that right? This is so confusing to me. I thought that Ray was trying to protect this man's identity. Something is wrong with this picture. > Ray says that the Fuji network broadcast the video prematurely due to a > misunderstanding. It was not supposed to be aired before some time in > May. Kiviat has had permission to use the video for some time, but the > networks he has approaced with it have been unimpressed and have not > given the go ahead on a new program. Now this is weird. I find it hard to believe that Ray didn't have more control over the broadcast in Japan than that. After viewing the video I can see why Bob is having such a hard time generating any interest in it. But hopefully he will find someone to foot the bill and televise it here in the US for the public to see. > That's all I know about this weird part of this weirder story. Thanks Bob. Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Mack and Hopkins together in Boston on March 7 From: ParadigmRG@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 03:04:59 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:02:41 -0500 Subject: Mack and Hopkins together in Boston on March 7 A significant event will take place: March 7, 1997 7:30 pm Boston, MA John Hancock Hall 180 Berkeley Street Dr. John E. Mack and Budd Hopkins will present together a "A Dialogue on the Alien Abduction Experience" Moderated by Christopher Lydon All views within the field will be covered. For the particulars contact: Program for Extraordinary Experience Research (PEER) Box 390707 Cambridge, MA 02139-0008 617-497-2667 You may also contact me via e-mail Steve Bassett SGBConsult@aol.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 01:47:52 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:00:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:24:15 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > >From: yogi@iadfw.net > >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:26:45 -0600 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > >> He has a sort of craggy, jowly face, which enhances the effect of the mole > >> in the right side of this face. Also the glare enhances this. > >There can't be too many folks that look like this guy. The mole might > >be the thing that helps identify him. > I tend to think you're right. John, Well, I really need to correct my own observations. In the still photos that were released on the internet I thought I saw a mole or some kind of growth on his face on the right side. But now that I've had the opportunity to see the cameraman interview on videotape...I think what I was seeing was merely a reflection caused by the odd lighting in the video. He does have heavy jowls and a craggy face as you suggested. > >> Well, its one of the first _real_ items of the entire fiasco, I mean case. > >> So far, there's no film, no actual film labels, no other physical evidence. > >> This is obviously a real person... > >Exactly! And that is why this lead might be our last chance to solve > >this. This cameraman...if he is real and not some actor in disguise > >could answer most all our questions. > I agree. Now that I've had a closer look at it...my first impression is that this was an actor in makeup. > >> Unfortunately, less than 1% of the US population is on the Internet. Maybe > >> Fox could put his picture on TV??? > >If some one who just take a chance and publish them. :) > It might be legitimate for some news-oriented organization to do a story on > the Japanese TV show and use a short segment of the film, that would get it > on our TV. I think that would be excellent. Let's call CNN. ;) Maybe Bob Kiviat will find a sucker to buy it and air it in it's entirety here in the US. My guess would be sometime in May during sweeps. ;) Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.4 From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:13:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:04:54 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.4 ============== Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.4 continued from 3 ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's: "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by Jerry Cohen ============== - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - As we ended "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal 3," the question was, "Exactly what was it that caused Dr. Hynek to change his stance from skeptic to believer over the years?" As I mentioned in "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal 1," in order to find where UFO evidence might possibly be hiding, one must have at least a basic knowledge of UFO history. Upon reading many posts in "alt.paranet.ufo," it became obvious to me that many people had forgotten, or been too young to even know, this vital sequence of events. The following is an effort to refresh people's memories along that historic trail. This very accurate, documented synopsis of a phenomenon and its backwash allows us to more fully understand how we got where we are today. Although many cases have been left out, the ones I've selected were chosen to illustrate what I personally consider to be germane to the issue at hand. At this moment I don't ask you to believe every case presented here but only to be cognizant of this extraordinary progression of events, Dr. Hynek's role in it and the Air Force's reaction. More information on the Colorado Project (Condon Study) can be found in the sources given. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= UFOS, A SYNOPSIS OF AN EXTREMELY RELEVANT HISTORY =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Modern Ufology's roots: (Never to be forgotten) [The accuracy of the following can be checked by consulting the sources provided via your local libraries] also it is my understanding The Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) is the repository for NICAP files * * * Those of us who followed the UFO phenomenon from 1947 on, for various reasons ranging from basic curiosity to some of which skeptics will find impossible to believe, discovered a range of UFO claims which displayed themselves before our incredulous eyes.. Beginning with Kenneth Arnold's sighting in 1947, through a host of others, pausing in 1952 for the Washington D.C. RADAR/visuals, 1 and moving ahead to a sighting wave in 1957 which included some claimed "glowing egg-shaped" UFO fly-overs which happened to include the following: "Coast Guard Cutter Sebago RADAR/visual case" (11/7/57) which appeared in Long Island newspapers and became personal to me because a neighbor of mine was dating one of the crew members when it happened. Crewmen on the Coast Guard cutter Sebago, off the coast of Louisiana, reported visually seeing an object resembling "a brilliant planet with a high rate of speed". It was tracked on the vessel's radar screen for twenty seven minutes and flitted on and off the screen several times during that time period. (Complete text of which I'll post a bit later.); 2 "James Stokes case" (11/6/57, the day before the Sebago case) in which "an engineer from the Air Force Missile Development Center at Holloman AFB, Alamagordo, New Mexico" and people in ten other cars claimed their radios died and cars were stalled when a UFO flew across the highway in front of them 3 and; the "Kirtland AFB case" (11/4/57, two days before the Stokes case): Condon Study case #141, cited at the AAAS UFO Symposium, Boston, Dec 27, 1969 by Dr. James McDonald as a case he personally felt was "inadequately investigated and reported." 4 The *Sebago* and *Stokes* cases hadn't happened yet and, all three cases occurred in a very close proximity of time. (These are the three cases from 1957 mentioned in "Oberg/Cooper 1." I'll examine these in greater detail in a later essay), and the "SKY THING" (occurred 8/30/60, two years & nine months later), of which Dr. Hynek was probably aware, and which I posted, but no one, as of yet, seems to have come up with a probable solution to same. 5 If you remember, it concerned an object appearing on an irregular schedule, going against the earth's rotation, twice as fast as the Echo I satellite and was photographed by at least three tracking stations. As I mentioned earlier, Dr. Hynek probably didn't have an explanation either. It was "strikingly odd." (If you also remember from "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal 3," Dr. Hynek was in charge of the SAO *Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory* project to track the first satellites both we and the Russians were shooting into space.) The "1960 Sky Thing" and an increasing number of "claimed occurrences" caused some people to start becoming really curious and to begin reading UFO reports just a little more closely. However, as mentioned previously, total skeptics of the phenomenon who refused even to consider the possibility of "outside visitors" had one piece of "solid bedrock" upon which to stand. With statistics provided by the Air Force, they could believe the Air Force's reoccurring theme that: ** Most cases have been explained and there is nothing to UFOs. 6 ** (Most of us didn't know it back then but we certainly found out later that in the background, the Air Force had a civilian astronomical consultant. He had worked for them since 1947 or 48 analyzing UFO cases with the objective of confirming that specific statement. [Dr. J. Allen Hynek] Even being ignorant of this, one could assume they [the Air Force] probably had analyzed this UFO thing thoroughly and scientifically to make their determinations. As I said, it certainly eased many a questioning mind.) One of the first clues we had that something was amiss, however, happened the beginning of August 1965. We had another wave of claimed sightings that year in Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Kansas in which police officers reported them; the weather bureau in Wichita tracked an object; and Bob Campbell, television newsman in Sherman Texas, near Oklahoma, took a picture of a strange object. The Air Force explained them all away as "either twinkles from the planet Jupiter or stars Rigel, Capella, Betelgeuse or Aldeberan." 7 But hold on folks....Robert Risser, the director of Oklahoma City's Kirkpatrick Planetarium disagreed with the Air Force's explanation. He said "Somebody has made a mistake. ..... Many of those objects mentioned by the Air Force are not visible until just before dawn in Oklahoma City and others aren't visible at all." 8 Those "thinking and questioning individuals" amongst us thought to themselves, "What the heck is going on here? Who gave that dumb explanation?" (We also find out later, it wasn't Dr. Hynek. He mentions this and a great deal more in his 1972 book "The UFO Experience"; but I'm getting ahead of myself. I'll address this in another installment.) Six months later (2/66), an article appeared in Look Magazine by author John Fuller. It concerned UFO incidents that allegedly took place one month after the Texas, New Mexico sightings, beginning approximately Sept. 3, 1965 at Exeter, N.H. 9 The Exeter sightings continued over a period of several weeks and were claimed to have been witnessed by approximately *sixty* people including police personnel. The encounters were *extremely close* and the "craft" descriptions were *amazingly detailed,* including those of the police. Simply for the record, just "two months after" the claimed Exeter incidents, in early November 1965, the lights went out along the Northeast coast. We were in the midst of the first great Northeast Power Failure. It certainly was an "odd coincidence." A virtual "wave" of claimed sightings, more of them extremely detailed, appeared in magazines and newspapers and continued into 1967. 10 Getting back to 1966, however, the public's eye finally began to focus upon Dr. J. Allen Hynek, the Northwestern University professor and consulting scientist the Air Force had hired to debunk UFO sightings for "Project Blue Book," their official study on UFOs. A rash of claimed UFO sightings had occurred near Dexter/Hillsdale, Michigan (3/66) and Dr. Hynek flew there to examine the situation. Being pressed early on by reporters as to what he thought the sightings might be, he guessed that some might possibly have been *swamp gas*. 11 Considering the number of excellently described and detailed sightings that had occurred to that point, and the lack of confidence inspired by at least one inept Air Force official explanation, the news media jumped all over his guess and lambasted him for it. People had simply had enough! They wanted immediate answers. Although "Dexter/Hillsdale" was far from a strong case, Hynek's bizarre circumstance with the press, when combined with the flurry of claimed sightings leading up to that time, eventually led to Congressional hearings on Capitol Hill. 12 Those hearings ultimately led to, as we mentioned earlier, an *Air Force sponsored* "University study concerning UFOs"; the only of its type ever contracted publicly. It was known alternately as the "Condon Study" or "Colorado Project." 13 Well, NOW we were finally going to get to the bottom of this. University scientists were finally going to seriously study this whole thing. (So we all thought at the time!) In the meantime, some of us happened to notice a startling article by Dr. Hynek in Newsweek Magazine (10/10/66) followed by another multi-page article in the Saturday Evening Post(12/17/66). 14 In those articles, Dr. Hynek stated he didn't think it was *all* "hogwash" and gave quite a few calm, intelligent reasons. In them he said: He "doesn't believe it's a secret military device"; "Responsible people report these sightings"; and refuting Philip Klass, emerging skeptic, "Relatively few UFO sightings can be explained by ball lightning. ... Many have been seen when atmospheric conditions are not right for ball lightning." In the Saturday Evening Post article he said "...other scientists laughed at the whole thing while some were curious and were afraid to speak out."; He said that occasionally, the Air Force would disregard his evaluations" and did not always consult him on every case. Also, back then, he didn't believe the Air Force was purposely hiding information on UFOs. He felt they just didn't believe UFOs could exist. (At least, that's what he originally thought. As posted in "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal 1," his quoted comments from "The UFO Cover-up" had demonstrated he finally arrived at a different conclusion concerning this.) 15 Wow! The Air Force's own scientific consultant was saying this! What a dangerous political thing for him to say. Something like this could cost a person his reputation, his job and perhaps even his career. I thought to myself "He's got to really believe in what he is saying. What does he know that we don't?" What I and most others didn't fully realize at the time was that the combination of events of 1965/66; the cases he was familiar with in "Project Blue Book," and his awareness of the lack of actual study given to good cases by that project, had become as compelling to Dr. Hynek as they were to anyone else who had really tuned in via the newspapers. 16 What we were eventually to find out was that things concerning the Air Force were not as we had thought. Also, this crazy UFO topic had a way of striking fear into the hearts of both scientists involved directly in "the politics of science," who were embarrassed to take it seriously in front of their colleagues, and the average citizen who had his own UFO experience but was but was embarrassed to report it, due to the ridicule filtering down from above. It was, in part, this "fear of ridicule" that was keeping large numbers of people from studying the topic seriously and, I might add, still does today. The rhetoric went something like this: "Where other life probably exists is too far for us to travel ... we haven't found any (life) yet ... and since we haven't found them and we can't fly there, obviously, they haven't found us and they can't fly here. You folks who are seeing this stuff must be hallucinating." Focusing, once again, on the Colorado project: As students of Ufology are well aware, the University of Colorado finally passed its judgment and two major conclusions by Dr. Condon became legendary. The first: "our general conclusion is that nothing has come from the studies of UFOs in the past twenty one years that has added to scientific knowledge." 17 (Dr. Condon was partially correct here. Mainstream science obviously had done little to add to it. As I mentioned in "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3" (see footnotes 9-13 therein for further info.), his own study was plagued by that same "fear of ridicule." It was certainly a "fear-related" memo that had been written by Robert Low, one of the heads of the project, in an attempt to protect the university from ridicule. But an observer is certainly entitled to ask: "What could possibly be learned about *any* subject in an atmosphere such as this, where politics totally controlled and overrode science?") and a second statement: "further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby." 18 Quite a conclusion. However, the UFO phenomenon, in this instance, had the last laugh. I had already mentioned the result of the leaked memo and that other scientists examined the study and eventually brought to light the incredible fact that its conclusions were not supported by its data. 19 Here is a brief synopsis of some fascinating and extremely relevant events occurring *after* these pronouncements were made. The following appeared in the NICAP Investigator: January 1969, p. 7 .. "A special UFO Committee of the American Institute of Astronautics and Aeronautics (AIAA), the largest non-governmental aerospace agency in the world ... was established." A ten man committee was formed to study the UFO topic further and "plans to develop certain recommendations and to give some insight into its reasoning." They concluded that ... "it (the UFO controversy) deserves the attention of the engineering and scientific community." .... "A 'Joint Statement by Scientists,' released by NICAP, brought strong support from scientists in various fields, including aerospace, psychology, physics, chemistry, botany, sociology and biology. .... about fifty scientists signed a statement urging 'an appropriate committee of the Congress to initiate an investigation of. . . UFOs." A quote from Dr. Hynek appeared in the 5/69 NICAP Investigator, p.8: "Dr. Hynek writing in the April, 1969 issue of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, likens the Condon Report to an 'uninspired pot-boiler' and calls it a 'strange sort of scientific paper (that) does not fulfill the promise of its title' (i.e. of its claim of being scientific). 'The book,' says Hynek, 'leaves the same strange, inexplicable residue of unknowns which has plagued the U.S. Air Force investigation for twenty years. In fact, the percentage of *unknowns* in the Condon report appears to be even higher than in the Air Force investigation..' " As previously mentioned, Dr. James McDonald brought his findings before several scientific groups. Three of these included: Dupont Chapter of the Scientific Research Society of America, Wilmington, Del., on February 12, 1969 ; National Amateur Astronomers, Inc. (NAA), Aug. 22, 1969 and to an American Association For The Advancement Of Science (AAAS) meeting, Dec. 27, 1969 . (J.C. I'll be presenting an enlightening portion of McDonald's testimony a little later on.) 22 Another quote from the NICAP Investigator, November, 1970: "The American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) has recommended renewed scientific investigation of UFOs." It reported on a three year study by an eleven man panel of its own. It said "The AIAA scientists rejected the Condon Report as the last word on UFOs, saying they could find no 'basis in the report for Dr. Condon's prediction that nothing of scientific value will come of further studies.' " "In fact," the group stated, "(we) find that the opposite conclusion could have been drawn from the content of the report -- namely, that a phenomenon with such a high ratio of unexplained cases (about 30 per cent) should arouse sufficient scientific curiosity to continue its study." (J.C. this percentage was higher than I originally quoted previously. I'm not sure which was correct. Not withstanding, even the lower percentage was higher than the Air Force claimed.) So, when one examines the record, it clearly shows it wasn't just Hynek and McDonald who disagreed with the Condon Study conclusions. Unfortunately for science, all these admonitions came too late and the Air Force, who paid for the study, got what it paid for; the perfect reason to dismantle Project Blue Book... a project that, as we will eventually discover, had become an embarrassment to itself. ++ Those reading this that think I am slandering the Air Force and Project Blue Book can rest assured that *history* substantiates everything I have said. I will completely detail, and confirm all of it in upcoming installments. ++ In December 1969, an announcement was made by then Air Force Secretary, Dr. Robert C. Seamans Jr., who informed us that the continuation of the (Blue Book) study "no longer can be justified either on the ground of national security or in the interest of science." The Air Force, then, shipped all its "Project Blue Book" files to Maxwell AFB in Alabama. 20 . . . . . . . It was painfully obvious that although the UFO topic had cried out to be scientifically analyzed, it didn't get its fair hearing. To this day, it *has not yet* been fairly studied (at least by civilian science). Naturally there was a backwash to all this. Within that backwash was a book from Dr. Hynek that revealed to us some of the inner workings of Project Bluebook and proved, beyond a shadow of doubt, there was definitely more going on here than first met the eye. Furthermore, with the passage of time, things surfaced that made it crystal clear that our Air Force and government had a lot more information concerning UFOs than they were willing to tell. 21 My next essay will focus on more of this "backwash;" specifically, extraordinary revelations by Dr. Hynek concerning Project Blue Book and how these relate to Gordon Cooper's claims. Bibliography: 1 Ruppelt, Edward J. (former head of Project Blue Book): "The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects," New York: Ace Books Inc., 1956 (paperback) Tells UFO history from an Air Force perspective and covers 1952 sightings.(no photos) 2 Newsday, (L.I. Newspaper) . Wednesday 11/6/57 . "CG Ship Sights Weird Object Off Louisiana" 3 Newsday, (L.I. Newspaper) . Wednesday 11/6/57 . "Flying Something Still Unidentified" 4 McDonald, James E. . presentation at AAAS UFO Symposium, Boston 12/27/69 : Excellent documentation by Val Germann "Yet More McDonald" -- # 5/6 . germannvh@aol.com (Germannvh) 5 Newsday 8/31/60 Chicago AP "They Wonder What's Up" : Newsday 9/1/60 Caro, Bob "Experts Cloudy on Identity of Sky Thing : Long Island Press 9/1/60 "Grumman Films Mystery Sphere" 6 Newsday, Washington AP 11/7/57 "Flying Saucers Don't Exist AF Finds in 10-Year Study : Herald Tribune, Washington 2/27/59 "Air Force Puts Stress On Flying Saucer Data : Herald Tribune 12/18/60 "A Blast at Flying Saucers," Ubell, Earl (Science Editor) : "Parade" section of Washington Post 9/19/65 "FLYING SAUCERS" 7 Newsday, Wed. 8/4/65 "They're Seeing Things Out Yonder" 8 Ibid 9 Look Magazine 2/22/66 Fuller, John G. "OUTER-SPACE GHOST STORY" : Fuller, John G. "Incident at Exeter", New York: Pub. by G.P. Putnam & Sons; distrib. by Berkley Publishing Corp., 1966 (no photos) (paperback) 10 Washington Daily News 4/18/66 "Flying 'Hot Dog' Spotted" : The Evening Star 4/18/66 "Ohio Deputy Sheriff Tells of Chasing Object 86 miles" : Newsday 10/22/66 "Report UFOs, of Some Sort" : New York Times 10/25/66 "Unidentified Objects in Sky Sighted at Goldsboro, N.C." : Life Magazine 10/28/66 "A flying 'something' touches down in Brazil" (& color photo) : Newsday 10/31/66 "25 See UFOs Over Island; AF Will Probe" : Long Island Press 11/2/66 "It Wasn't a Plane, A Star, a Planet . . . " : Long Island Press 11/5/66 "McDivitt & White Spot 'yellow-white egg-shaped' object in June 1965" (& photo) : Newsweek 3/20/67 "UFO-Watcher Watcher" 11 The Evening Star 3/23/66 "Flying Object Reports Have an Unusually Good Week" : Life Magazine 4/1/66 "A Well-witnessed 'Invasion' - by Something" (8 pages & color photos) 12 The Washington Post 3/26/66 "Flying Objects Identified as College Pranks and Swamp Gas" : The Washington Post 3/28/66 "UFO's Revenge : The Washington Post 4/22/66 "UFO Sightings Study Ordered" : The New York Times 8/14/66 Sullivan, Walter "Air Force Selecting University to Study 'Flying Saucer' Data" : Newsday Saturday 10/8/66 "Flying Saucer Study Is Sponsored by AF" : Look Magazine.Rogers, Warren ."Flying Saucers - Why the Pentagon was forced to call for scientific help" 13 NICAP Journal (The U.F.O. Investigator) Oct/Nov 1966 "University Starts UFO Probe..NICAP to Submit Factual Reports" : NICAP Journal (The U.F.O. Investigator) Jan/Feb 1967 "Colorado Project Operations" : NICAP Journal (The U.F.O. Investigator) Nov/Dec 1967 "AF-Colorado Contract Casts New Light On UFO Project" (Air Force "redefines" the term UFO) : Fox, J./Blumenfeld, H./Mindell T.: Flying Saucers Look Magazine Special, New York: Cowles Communications, Inc. & United Press International 1967 (excellent photos) 14 Hynek, Allen J. Newsweek 10/10/66 p. 70 "UFO's for Real?" : Hynek, Allen J. Saturday Evening Post 12/17/66 . "Are Flying Saucers Real?" 15 Fawcett, L. & Greenwood, B. "The UFO Cover-up" Simon & Schuster Fireside Book 1992 16 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972, appendix 4 (Excerpt of a Letter from J. Allen Hynek to Colonel Raymond S. Sleeper) 17 Condon, Dr. Edward U.: "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects", New York: Bantam Books (A New York Times Book), 1/8/69 (minimal photos ... Good Gemini 11, plate 17) 18 Sullivan, Walter . introduction to the "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects", New York: Bantam Books (A New York Times Book), 1/8/69 19 Sullivan, Walter (New York Times Science Editor). introduction to the "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects", New York: Bantam Books (A New York Times Book), 1/8/69 20 Newsweek Magazine 12/29/69 "Closing the Blue Book" 21 Fawcett, L. & Greenwood, B. "The UFO Cover-up" Simon & Schuster Fireside Book 1992 22 McDonald, Dr. James E. . NICAP UFO Investigator . Feb/Mar 1969 . "A Scientists Critique" . "My own estimate is that absolutely no further general progress towards scientific clarification of the UFO problem will come until the inadequacies of the Condon Report are fully aired in as many ways as possible. I intend to devote all possible personal effort to that objective..." : NICAP UFO Investigator . Sept/Oct 1969 . "UFO Clearing House Recommended" ============== End: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.4 ---------------------------------- UFOs, A SYNOPSIS OF AN EXTREMELY RELEVANT HISTORY ============== Respectfully submitted, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3 From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:13:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:03:39 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3 continued from 2 ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's: "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by Jerry Cohen =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DR. J. ALLEN HYNEK - His life and a few of his accomplishments =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mimi, you don't know me, but this is for both of you. I felt I owed him this. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Oberg has stated that Dr. Hynek wasn't careful in the data he selected to be used in several of his books. To the best of my awareness and research, no one that worked with Hynek on an ongoing basis ever accused him of anything of this sort. If anything, he was considered an extremely competent, cautious scientist. To discover Dr. Hynek's competence and importance to the field of UFOlogy, one must take a brief look at his life. I had noticed several discussions on "alt.paranet.ufo" in which Dr. Hynek had been referred to as a "failed scientist." I responded with the information in the essay below. As will be obvious to the reader, I had an emotional involvement with this particular essay when I wrote it. I apologize for this. It was due to two of my own UFO "experience(s)" back in 1967 which left me trying to reconcile what my eyes saw but the main scientific establishment and the Air Force were saying was impossible. This is the reason for the in-depth research I have performed all these years. Dr. Hynek's stand concerning the subject was the only thing that allowed me to have some modicum of peace throughout that search and not give up and begin to doubt what my own eyes told me back then I would eventually find if I looked long and hard enough. The reason I am not going straight to the cases I originally mentioned to present my argument concerning Gordon Cooper is because even with the evidence staring one straight in the face, almost any human being will still attempt to mentally discard it, for to accept it is the opening of a very scary Pandora's box indeed; a box that, once opened, can never be closed. However, Dr. Hynek's revelations concerning the Air Force are extremely important and allow one to more fully realize the incredible strength of what I'm going to present. Many people today have forgotten these revelations or are simply ignorant of their existence. Therefore, a brief look at Hynek's life and accomplishments MUST preface the evidence I've compiled. First, let's see what this man set out to do with his life, whether or not he accomplished it and also see how a combination of fate and events caused him to eventually arrive at some startling conclusions which the world has not yet fully absorbed and understood. J.C. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - *** J. Allen Hynek majored in astronomy and became a Professor of Astronomy at Ohio State University. 1 No failure there...x years of college and then got the job at Ohio State. He must have done it well because he was invited by Fred Whipple at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory (SAO) to join him so that Hynek could be "in charge of the Optical Satellite Tracking Program (STP)", a new program which was to be part of the 67 nation scientific effort known as the International Geophysical Year (IGY) to occur in 1957/58. As part of his responsibilities, SAO was going to design & build 12 special tracking cameras to be installed at optical tracking stations around the world to specifically follow the U.S.' first artificial satellites. 2 The observatory also set up Operation Moonwatch, a global network of volunteer observing teams. Moonwatch was to make the first visual observations of the new satellites. "From this preliminary information, STP in Cambridge would prepare orbit predictions for the Baker-Nunn tracking stations so that the camera-telescopes could be properly aimed to take precision photographs of the artificial "moons." The photos were then returned to STP headquarters at Cambridge, for reduction and analysis. 3 Hmmmn, very interesting. Of course, just about anyone could have headed this project, but I guess they just had to be satisfied with Dr. Hynek. P.S. We never heard any complaints from Fred Whipple or the sponsors of the project. (NASA?) Let's see....what else did he set out to accomplish? The Air Force came to him and asked him to be their scientific consultant on UFOs. He readily accepted this challenge and sought to perform it to the best of his ability. His involvement with the Air Force. dates back to 1948 when Project Bluebook was then called Project Sign. 4 Again, THEY could have picked a lot of other people, but, they didn't...they picked him. Did the Air Force want to have everyone believing in UFOs? We all know the answer to that one. I'm certain they stayed with him for the life of Bluebook, at least partly, because he was a skeptic and incidentally, an excellent scientist with an excellent "track record." He set out to prove that UFOs were basically figments of people's imagination. 5 Ooops! Guess what? I think we've finally found something at which he did FAIL. He COULDN'T do it. He couldn't prove that UFOs were figments of people's imagination. Dr. Hynek discovered for himself that, no matter how hard he tried, and for how long, there seemed to be a certain residual number of UFO cases he could not totally dismiss. 6 Incidentally, how long WAS he connected with this incoming data to the military? ... from 1949-1969, a total of 20 years! As far as I am aware, the only civilian scientist to be in this unique position. 7 Hynek made the following comments in his 1972 book "The UFO Experience." He found the following things to be true after interviewing hundreds of people and/or reading and analyzing God knows how many reports: The first..."the most coherent and articulate UFO reports come from people who have not given much thought to the subject and generally who are surprised and shocked by their experience." Secondly, and as stated in a previous post, "some of the very best reports have come from scientifically trained people..... These reports are usually rarely published however, because the person usually requests anonymity." 8 So then, how did Dr. Hynek handle this "failure" of his to prove UFOs were figments of people's imagination? Did he try to hide it by pretending that he had explained all the cases? That certainly would have been easily accepted by the scientific establishment. They could have all had a big chuckle together. He would have been a hero to both the scientific establishment and to the Air Force. He could have even easily taken the same approach that Drs. Condon & Low took when handling the Colorado Study. The road was already paved for a nice, safe exit from his dilemma. The NAS (National Academy of Sciences) acceptance of the Condon Study could have easily been Hynek's road map to safety. But his own honesty and conscience prevented this. First of all, he had a large number of cases he just couldn't explain; Secondly, I'm sure history buffs will remember the cryptic memo that Robert Low had written before the University of Colorado took the project. Do we ALL remember what was in that memo that got two scientists fired from the project for leaking it publicly? As Walter Sullivan, New York Times Science Editor wrote in his preface to the paperback version of "The Condon Report:" 9 "His (Low's) memo, to University officials, sought to analyze the pros and cons of the Air Force proposal" (J.C. Do we also remember, the Air Force was paying for the "Study"?) "Could the University (of Colorado) undertake the project in a manner that would satisfy public concern, yet not subject the University to ridicule by the academic community? He argued that the study would perforce be done almost entirely by non believers and, and while the project could never "prove" that no UFOs have ever come from another world, it could contribute impressive evidence for such a conclusion." 'The trick,' he wrote, 'would be, I think, to describe the project so that, to the public, it would appear a totally objective study but, to the scientific community, would present the image of a group of non believers trying their best to be objective, but having an almost zero expectation of finding a saucer." Afraid of what the scientific community would think? Hand picking the committee to skew the results? Skeptics who are honest with yourselves, after reading this, do you truly think the Colorado Study was given a fair chance to be objective? Hardly.... The ONLY major university study of UFOs was a sham. Hynek knew it. Instead of following the party line, Hynek stood up and said firmly, Gentlemen, this is wrong! It needs studying and no one has yet done a serious study on it. 10 For a scientist to do this, it could have been the "kiss of death." He was trying to "blow the whistle" but it was such a "way out" subject in people's minds, almost no scientist in political power was listening. The ironic part is that Low botched the job and got caught. Scientists, LOW hired, found and leaked the memo he wrote. 11 With all its mismanagement, the "Study" still found approximately 15% unknowns whereas the Air Force had its unknowns listed as low as 6% in 1966. 12 Scientists like Dr. James McDonald, senior physicist and professor of meteorology at the Institute of Atmospheric Physics, University of Arizona disputed the project's findings stating correctly that its conclusions did not fit its data. However, although the Study actually had more unknowns than the Air Force had claimed in the first place and Condon who was named in the Air Force contract as principal investigator did not make a single field investigation of his own (whereas Hynek HAD on many occasions), the National Academy of Sciences still accepted his conclusion, most certainly because of his previously fine reputation. Project Bluebook was closed and the sponsor of the project, the Air Force was happy because it no longer had to deal publicly with the UFO problem. It closed Project Bluebook in 1969. 13 Continuing our glimpse at Dr. Hynek's career.... What was Dr. Hynek's goal regarding UFOs at this point? It was to somehow get the data he had accumulated from Project Bluebook into the public spotlight in any way he could. He could have run from the whole thing but he didn't. He was the only civilian person that had the data and any ability to disseminate it. He felt that the responsibility was on his shoulders. Since Condon had said that nothing could be learned from studying UFOs, the major scientific journals would not take Hynek's data seriously. People had their mental "out." They didn't have to think about it any more. But the UFO problem didn't just go away. Good cases kept coming in and Dr. Hynek finally turned to publishing his own books, risking scientific, political ostracism in the process. One of those books was "The UFO Experience," from which a small portion of the material for this article was gleaned. 14 It is must reading for those interested in the facts concerning the history of this controversial topic, especially his 1968 letter to Colonel Raymond Sleeper in appendix 4, which exposes the total lack of applied scientific methodology in Project Bluebook, ignoring of Hynek's scientific recommendations and Bluebook's low place on the military totem pole. 15 Not too long after the Pascogoula "Hickson & Parker" case, Sherman Larsen came to him in 1973 and suggested that he form, what turned out to be, a "Center for UFO Studies" (CUFOS) which would be the first "serious" UFO study group "led by a scientist" and "dedicated to research and analysis." 16 To quote Dr. David Jacobs, the Center "quickly became a dominant force in UFO research, drawing upon the investigative capabilities of the other UFO organizations. With the editorial direction of Mimi Hynek, CUFOS published monographs & research materials that could not be published elsewhere because commercial and academic presses were fearful that the subject would not sell or was too 'fringy'." 17 So, if skeptics wish to think Dr. Hynek was a "failed" scientist, so be it. The facts speak otherwise. Nothing that he did in the UFO field took away from his credibility as a fine scientist and, he was brave enough to tread where others had mortal fear. He still accumulated more prestigious accomplishments than 99% of the critics that disagreed with what he was saying. After reading the obituaries written in CUFOS International UFO Reporter (May/June 1986), I realized that the majority of people he worked with in virtually every facet of his life respected him as an honest, intelligent, kind person, fine teacher and conscientious scientist, including his wife Mimi, who was his partner in life and knew him best. He had followed his intellect and heart on this matter and in his death, certainly deserves not to be maligned by ignorant comments. Thanks to him, people who have had a legitimate UFO experience can hold their heads up and say: "THANK YOU DR. HYNEK FOR GIVING US BACK OUR SANITY AND RESPECT WHEN OTHERS, WHO ARE IGNORANT OF THE SIMPLEST HISTORY REGARDING THE UFO TOPIC, HAVE MADE PRONOUNCEMENTS CONCERNING SAME, BUT ABOUT WHICH 'THEY' HAVE EXTREMELY MINUTE KNOWLEDGE. YOU HAD COURAGE WHERE OTHERS HAD FEAR .. PLACED SCIENCE FIRST WHEN OTHERS CHOSE POLITICS. "SOME" OF US HAVE SEEN EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE REPORTED AND OUR REPORTS WERE ACCURATE AND HONESTLY GIVEN. AS YOU DISCOVERED, THEY WERE NOT MISINTERPRETATIONS OF ANY NATURAL KNOWN PHENOMENA, NOR DRAWN FROM ANY PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS STEMMING FROM US AND... THEY (the reports) CERTAINLY DESERVE TO BE STUDIED IN DEPTH IN A PROPER, SCIENTIFIC MANNER. WE ARE POSITIVE THAT FURTHER STUDY OF UFOs WILL YIELD DISCOVERIES THAT MAN HAS ONLY HITHERTO IMAGINED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR FAITH IN US AS INTELLIGENT, OBSERVANT HUMAN BEINGS. THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THE COURAGE TO STAND FAST IN WHAT WE HAVE REPORTED. ONE DAY THE WORLD WILL REALIZE WE SAW EXACTLY WHAT WE CLAIMED AND WE WILL BE TOTALLY VINDICATED. Bibliography: 1 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" (hard cover - jacket) Henry Regnery Company 1972 2 Webb, Walter N . (Charles Hayden Planetarium, Boston) . Center for UFO Studies "International Reporter" 1/93 . "Allen Hynek as I Knew Him". p4 "Tracking Satellites" 3 Ibid : p4 . =B64 4 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" (hard cover) Henry Regnery Company 1972 . p1 . =B61 . "The UFO Phenomenon ... Introduction: An Innocent in UFO Land" 5 Webb, Walter N . (Charles Hayden Planetarium, Boston) . Center for UFO Studies "International Reporter" 1/93 . "Allen Hynek as I Knew Him". p4 . =B66 6 Newsweek 10/10/66 . p70 . "UFOs for Real?" : Saturday Even Post 12/17/66 . Hynek, J. Allen . "Are Flying Saucers Real?" pp. 17-21 7 Fox, Jack V. UPI New York . "Flying Saucers" . Look Magazine . Cowles Communications, Inc. 1967 . p3 (picture & information top-right corner) : Washington Post . 3/25/66 Fri . UPI "New Flying Object Seen in Michigan" : Ibid 3/26/66 . Simmons, Howard . "Flying Objects Identified as College Pranks and Swamp Gas" : Ibid 4/6/66 Drummond, Roscoe . "UFOs--Real or Myth" 8 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" (hard cover) Henry Regnery Company 1972 . pp. 9&10 9 Sullivan, Walter (Preface to) Condon, Dr. Edward U. : Scientific Study of UFOs, New York: Bantam Books 1969 (A New York Times Book) also... Hynek, J. Allen: The UFO Experience, Chicago: Henry Regnery Co., 1972 . p 210 bottom and 211 . hard cover . "Science is not Always what Scientists Do" 10 Newsweek 10/10/66 . p70 . "UFOs for Real?" : Saturday Even Post 12/17/66 . Hynek, J. Allen . "Are Flying Saucers Real?" pp. 17-21 11 Hynek, J. Allen: The UFO Experience, Chicago: Henry Regnery Co., 1972 . p 210 bottom and 211 . hard cover . "Science is not Always what Scientists Do" 12 "The U.F.O. Investigator", National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) publication, May/June 1968, pp. 1/4-5 : Evening Star 3/23/66 . "UFO Manifestation on Rise Since July" . col 3 . =B66 "Quintanilla reported much more precise data in the Air Force's files.....Project Blue Book had received 10,147 reports since its inception in 1947. Of these 646 remain resolved." : McDonald, Dr. James E., NICAP UFO Investigator, Feb/Mar 1969, "A Scientist's Critique" (Excerpts from 2/12/69 talk to the DuPont Chapter of the Scientific Research Society of America.) 13 Newsweek Magazine 12/29/69 "Closing the Blue Book" 14 Hynek, J. Allen: The UFO Experience, Chicago: Henry Regnery Co., 1972 15 Ibid: appendix 4 (Excerpt of a Letter from J. Allen Hynek to Colonel Raymond S. Sleeper) 16 Larsen, Sherman . CUFOS International UFO Reporter . May/June 1986 . pp 13/14 . "The Founding of CUFOS" 17 Jacobs, David M., CUFOS International Reporter . May/June 1986, "J. Allen Hynek and the UFO phenomenon" ------------------------------------------------------------------ =3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D Some additional comments by: Walter Webb, astronomer, Charles Hayden Planetarium, Boston =3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D=3D+++=3D=3D J.C. To input some data concerning the question I mentioned earlier; "Are there any other respected scientists that analyzed UFOs and became seriously interested in them?" Here is another scientist who's interest in UFOs began in the same year my interest began..1957. Posted on alt.paranet.ufo on Feb. 6, 1996 The following information was written for CUFOS International UFO Reporter (1/93), approximately 6 years after Hynek's death. The article was titled "Allen Hynek As I Knew Him." Its author was Walter Webb, an astronomer at Charles Hayden Planetarium, Boston. Webb had worked for Dr.Hynek beginning in February 1957 when Dr. Hynek was setting up tracking stations for the Smithsonian Astronomical Observatory. Hynek had hired Webb as a kid out of college sometime that February. + + + His job was to generally assist the STP staff at the Smithsonian. After Sputnick II went up, the rush was on to get observers to their tracking stations. Webb got an assignment on a station atop 10,000 ft. Mount Haleakala on Maui, Hawaii. Their station became the first one overseas to be equipped and staffed. Webb saw Hynek almost every day during that time. Webb said that he realized there was a core of difficult UFO cases that couldn't easily be explained when he was at Hynek's house one evening in 1957 and Hynek was cheerfully explaining away some sighting reports to students, etc. and came to the following case: "an object approached a pilot on a collision course, veered, paralleled the plane and then shot upward, joined another object, and streaked away." Webb jotted this case in his diary. It turned out to be the initial spur to Webb's own curiosity regarding the topic. Webb eventually became a scientific advisor to NICAP and good friend of Richard Hall, editor of "The UFO Evidence"; former Assistant Director and Acting Director of NICAP. As previously mentioned, "The UFO Evidence was a 200,000 word documentary report which contained approximately 746 documented sightings by Air Force, Army, Navy & Marine people, pilots and aviation experts, other military personnel, observations by professional scientists and engineers, including astronomers and aeronautical engineers, which had been presented to congress in 1964. Hall now contributes to every major UFO organization in the United States. Webb's name appeared on the inside front cover of "The UFO Evidence" as one of a group of Special Advisors (Science & Technology) to NICAP. **** This is what Webb said, in his own words. Interior capitals are mine. "....occasional anomalous trails showed up on later photos in the Baker-Nunn network. Bud (Ledwith) started to examine both tracking station film and Moonwatch reports for UFO traces. Hynek did comment on 'oddities' that appeared on both the tracking photos and Moonwatch observations." "I certainly know that in the satellite tracking mission we got a number of things that appeared on the films that were never tracked down; they weren't part of the mission! A PERSON WHO SAYS THAT THE BAKER-NUNN CAMERAS NEVER PICKED UP ANYTHING IS JUST DEAD WRONG BECAUSE I KNOW THEY DID.. I WAS IN CHARGE OF THE PROJECT! We just didn't bother about it. It would have been too much work to investigate some strange lights; it would have diverted men from the job they were supposed to do. . . . " "We received many reports from our Moonwatch stations concerning the strange lights that certainly weren't satellites. Many of these witnesses were amateur astronomers and generally well acquainted with the skies." **** So we see why yet another scientist became interested in UFOs. Something was being seen and some scientists themselves were becoming curious. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hynek quote from 1st page of "The Hynek UFO Report" "I had started out as an outright 'debunker,' taking great joy in cracking what seemed at first to be puzzling cases. I was the arch enemy of those 'flying saucer groups and enthusiasts' who very dearly wanted UFOs to be interplanetary. My own knowledge of those groups came almost entirely from what I heard from Blue Book personnel; they were all "crackpots and visionaries.'" Hynek, J. Allen . "The Hynek UFO Report" . Dell Publishing Co. 1977 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hynek quote from "The UFO Experience" "Before I began my association with the air force, I had joined my scientific colleagues in many a hearty guffaw at the "psychological postwar craze" for flying saucers that seemed to be sweeping the country and at the naivete and gullibility of our fellow human beings who were being taken in by such obvious "nonsense." It was almost in a sense of sport that I accepted the invitation to have a look at the flying saucer reports....." Hynek, J. Allen: The UFO Experience, Chicago: Henry Regnery Co., 1972 . Part 1 The UFO Phenomenon . Introduction: An Innocent in UFO Land . paragraph 4 ----------------------------------------------------------------- JC: As evidence of how the many years Dr. J. Allen Hynek studied the topic eventually changed his thinking, here are some quotes from his forward to Fawcett and Greenwood's "The UFO Cover-up" (Fireside books, Simon & Schuster 1984), two years before his death. *** Date: 6 Feb 1996 04:29:14 GMT Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network) Lines: 48 "Experienced UFO investigators have, over the years, been the recipients of many tales and undocumented statements, generally from former military pilots and crew members about having their aircraft "scrambled" (launched in immediate response to an alarm) to pursue a UFO, of UFOs encroaching on high-sensitivity areas on military base, of malfunctions of defense equipment in the presence of UFOs, of planes lost while pursuing UFOs, and, yes, even tales of crashed saucers and of alien beings kept in the deep freeze." ...... "Now, however, documentation which puts the UFO--U.S. government controversy in quite a new light has become available. The authors have made revealing use of documents released through the mechanism of the Freedom of Information Act and other data which have been made available to them, often through private sources, which show that the CIA and NSA protestations of innocence and lack of interest in UFOs are nothing short of prevarication." "The reader must judge for himself or herself just how far these implications extend, but certainly no one can deny any longer that various intelligence agencies of our government were long cognizant of UFOs and the global extent of this phenomenon. Official dispatches from our embassies and air bases in other countries to these agencies, to the State Department, and even, on occasion, to the White House, bear incontrovertible witness to this." "For the government to continue to maintain that UFOs are nonexistent in the face of the documents already released and of other cogent evidence presented in this book is puerile and in a sense an insult to the American people." -- JC: From the quotations I have presented to this point, we can note the dramatic change in Hynek from skeptic to believer. However he did not always believe the Air Force and government was purposely hiding information. Certain specific things Hynek discovered along the way in his research precipitated this change. At this point we need to examine UFO history as a background to the discoveries he made concerning UFOs and the Air Force. Oberg/Cooper rebuttals 4 & 5 will cover this and more in depth. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D End: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3 ---------------------------------- DR. J. ALLEN HYNEK- His life and a few of his accomplishments =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Respectfully submitted, Jerry Cohen Email: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.6 From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:13:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:12:25 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.6 ================= Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.6 continued from 5 ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's: "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by Jerry Cohen ================= 1. Why small groups of civilians (scientists & others) are presently studying the phenomenon. 2. Where do we find the truly "hard-core" cases? = The accuracy of the following can be checked by consulting the sources provided, including your local libraries = -------------------------------------- The following is a brief summary of what was discussed in "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal parts.3-5" and the next important question; "Where do serious professional researchers look for cases that they believe may be 'true' unknowns?" As I said in "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1a/b," this is a highly important point that must be considered if one is to, within this lifetime, find additional critical, verifiable documentation regarding UFOs. I apologize if this is redundant to some but I felt everything before this should be briefly summarized before continuing with the three cases. Those with photographic or just great memories can skip this. However, those people who have been unsuccessful in finding reliable data concerning UFOs should definitely read this section. Presentation of the three cases from 1957 will follow in "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7." -------------------------------------- ========================================= SUMMARY OF OBERG/COOPER REBUT.3-5 & NICAP ========================================= So what do we have so far? We discovered that the Air Force's own consultant concerning UFOs, after studying them for a good fifteen years, defected and came out saying that UFOs were "not all hogwash." He felt there was a core of cases that could not be easily explained in scientific terms and were definitely worth studying. He put his career on the line to say this to the world, when others were too fearful to admit to other scientists, that they might be studying the topic in a sincere fashion. 1 And why did they feel this way? Because, other scientists, not knowing the data, were laughing at the possibility these things could be real. As researchers are painfully aware, some of them still are today. Hynek's 1968 letter to Colonel Sleeper, written before Blue Book closed, told Sleeper that it's 20 year study, the same study the Air Force was using to claim that the majority of UFO cases had been thoroughly, scientifically explained, was, in actuality, a "non-study." As previously mentioned, with the publishing of that letter in Hynek's book "The UFO Experience," the bedrock that UFO skeptics had to stand upon simply crumbled. The statistics quoted by the Air Force were, as Hynek put it, "a travesty." 2 We also learned, confirmed by Walter Sullivan, New York Times Science Editor, and reconfirmed by Dr. Hynek in that same book, that the "Condon Study" was also greatly influenced by this "fear of professional ridicule". Low's fateful memo had exposed the study as an exercise in pretending to study something it was afraid of. The heads of the study wanted, in Dr. Low's own words, as previously discussed, " ...to describe the project so that, to the public, it would appear a totally objective study but, to the scientific community, would present the image of a group of non believers trying their best to be objective, but having an almost zero expectation of finding a saucer." 3 Additionally, we found that Hynek wasn't the only one that disagreed with the results of the "Condon Study." Other studies were performed. Other scientists and engineers, felt the data of the Colorado Study did not support Dr. Condon's conclusions and fifty scientists had signed a statement urging a congressional investigation of UFOs to no avail. Case material presented by Drs. McDonald and Hynek convinced those professionals that the conclusions Condon reached were not in keeping with the available facts. More study was definitely indicated. 4 Now, with the major two studies on UFOs proven to have serious "flaws" (If you read "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal parts.3-5" you know I am trying to be kind), what did we have left? ...... the core of truly "unsolved" UFO cases which everyone had avoided focusing upon in the first place. The question was, how many were there, where could they be found, and who was going to do the looking? Unfortunately, not "mainstream science." This formidable task was thrust back upon none other than, you guessed it folks, the civilian UFO groups who had been attempting to collect whatever data they could on the phenomena all along, without the vast resources of "mainstream science." One excellent source of documented sightings was Richard Hall's previously mentioned manuscript "The UFO Evidence," published back in 1964 by NICAP' (National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena). If you remember, Hall had compiled, edited and submitted it to numerous congressmen prior to its final publishing. 5 NICAP was a relatively conservative UFO group. 6 It had an excellent staff composed of impressive people of quite varied educational disciplines, some of whom had been fairly high up in military echelons. 7 It was not quick to claim any sightings were valid and it's journal provided an excellent place to record these unusual claims when they were reported. The journal was for the most part, competent and lucid. Reports were taken, investigations conducted, investigator's comments added and finally entered into the journal. Speculations were held to the minimum. Hall's manuscript contained an explanation of NICAP, its policies and a "reality of UFOs" statement by its Board of Governors. 8 It also contained, as previously mentioned, a listing of 746 documented sightings by Air Force, Army, Navy & Marine personnel, pilots and aviation experts, other military personnel, observations by professional scientists and engineers, including astronomers and aeronautical engineers. 9 They gave reasons why the objects that were seen appeared to be under intelligent control, not just floating debris, balloons, kites, etc. They also reported on electro-magnetic effects observed, radar cases, photographic evidence, physical and physiological effects. The majority of cases fell in the date range from 1942-'62. 10 This, then, was an important part of the evidence. A few cases could be found from some of the "Blue Book files that Hynek had presented" in the books he was writing. 11 Others could be found in the "Blue Book files themselves," IF the Air Force would permit people to get at them. 12 Remember, Hynek stated they didn't let HIM peruse the files, and he was their "consultant." 13 And yet most amazing of all, another important place some documented unknowns could be found was in the CONDON STUDY itself. 14 If one waded through the voluminous material therein, one could find cases actually listed as unknowns by the project's scientists and some others listed as "solved" that some outside scientists felt "very" strongly needed reexamining. Mind you, the project had not examined many of the best cases available, and yet this thought provoking fact remained; it still contained a fairly large percentage of unknowns. In reality, as I mentioned previously, researchers found the study's own data did NOT really support Condon's conclusions. 15 Therefore, here was another solid source for investigation, as one could readily see the thoroughness or lack of same that was applied to each case. "Hidden cases" provided yet another more nebulous source. These were government cases which various researchers had heard rumors about but could not absolutely prove existed. Project Blue Book cases such as those illustrated by Dr. Hynek to Colonel Sleeper and others, including some from the Condon Study which McDonald brought to the attention of various science groups, were clues there were probably other "hidden" cases buried not only in Blue Book files, but also, perhaps, in government communications regarding same. 16 When the government passed the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), a means of locating "some" of those cases via their "related memos" was opened. Find enough memos and you could possibly confirm their related cases. Needless to say, the UFO groups began filing both requests and, where necessary, lawsuits to search for what they were virtually positive had to be there. The Air Force and government had to know more than they were telling, and FOIA requests were seen as an excellent way to flush them out. As previously mentioned, the book "The UFO Cover- up" covers both this and more in great detail. 17 With the preceding solidly documented history tucked under our belts, I can finally get to the specific cases I mentioned at the outset of these essays. These cases will give us an indication of the strength of some of the evidence at hand and demonstrate that Gorden Coopers claims may be more solid than certain researchers would have us believe. This evidence continues to mount, indicating that there is definitely something flying around our airspace whose characteristics preclude it belonging to our Air Force. (or any other that we know) The first two articles I'll present were the first I ever cut out of a newspaper. I eventually discovered material that led me to believe these reported events were more solid than I ever imagined. If they are a secret development of ours, it was developed back in 1957 when the following cases occurred. I don't believe we had an operating version of the "Stealth" at that time. What was seen was nothing like it anyway. You be the judge. Bibliography: 1 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972, appendix 4 (Excerpt of a Letter from J. Allen Hynek to Colonel Raymond S. Sleeper) 2 Ibid . Appendix 4, Section D, Paragraph 1 . Hynek quote: "The statistical methods employed by Blue Book are a travesty on the branch of mathematics known as Statistics." 3 Sullivan, Walter . introduction to the "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects", New York: Bantam Books (A New York Times Book), 1/8/69 4. National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) Journal . Jan 69 . p 7 : IBID . May 1969 . p 8 : Bulletin of Atomic Scientists . April 1969 . Dr. Hynek's comments on Condon Study : McDonald, Dr. James E. . Presentation to Dupont Chapter of Scientific Research Society of America . Wilmington Delaware . Feb 12, 1969 : McDonald, Dr. James E. . Presentation of National Amateur Astronomer's Association (NAA) . Aug 22, 1969 : McDonald, James E. . Presentation to American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) meeting . Dec 27, 1969 : NICAP Investigator . Nov 1970 . AIAA Quotes regarding their study on UFO data : McDonald, Dr. James E. . NICAP UFO Investigator . Feb/Mar 1969 . "A Scientist's Critique" : NICAP UFO Investigator . Sept/Oct 1969 . "UFO Clearing House Recommended" 5 NICAP' (National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena) . "The UFO Evidence" . Published in 1964 . Washington D.C. : NICAP closed its doors in 1980. Its files now reside at CUFOS (J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies,) . 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago Illinois 60659 USA 6 Hall, Richard . CUFOS International UFO Reporter . May/June 1992 . pp 17 & 24 . "NICAP and lessons from the past"; also ... NICAP Journal, September 1975 . p4 . col 1 7 NICAP UFO Investigator . Oct 1971 . Special Commemorative Issue . p1 . "Navy Admiral Gives Support to Reports of Flying Saucers": Ibid . p 4 . "NICAP Board of Governors 1971" 8 NICAP' (National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena) . "The UFO Evidence" . Published in 1964 . Washington D.C. inside cover and p ii 9 Ibid . p iii and contents 10 Ibid . p 129 . Section XI . "THE UFO CHRONOLOGY" 11 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972 : also, Hynek, J. Allen " . "The Hynek UFO Report" Dell Publishing Co., Inc. 1977 12 Newsweek Magazine 12/29/69 "Closing the Blue Book" : also, CUFOS (Center for UFO Studies) . Associate Newsletter . Dec. 1981 . p. 6 or 8? . "Federal Court Upholds Decision Against CAUS" : also, National Enquirer . 1/6/76 . "Air Force's Massive Study of UFO Sightings Will Stay 'Top Secret' for 50 Years" 13 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972, appendix 4 (Excerpt of a Letter from J. Allen Hynek to Colonel Raymond S. Sleeper) : Appendix 4, Section A, Paragraph 9 : "It must be pointed out that neither of these cases were shown to me by Blue Book personnel. I happened upon them by accident during one of my visits as I scanned through material lying on a desk, and not in the files; I am not permitted to peruse the files themselves." 14 Condon, Dr. Edward U.: "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects", New York: Bantam Books (A New York Times Book), 1/8/69 15 Ibid : also, NICAP UFO Investigator . Feb/Mar 1969 . p 5 . "A SCIENTIST'S CRITIQUE" by Dr. James E. McDonald : Ibid . May 1969 "HYNEK SPEAKS OUT" : Ibid . Nov. 1970 "AIAA RECOMMENDS NEW UFO STUDY" Hard-Core Cases Difficult to Ignore, Says Group 16 Ibid footnote #12 : also, Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972, appendix 4 (Excerpt of a Letter from J. Allen Hynek to Colonel Raymond S. Sleeper) : Initial case from Appendix 4, Section A : McDonald, James E. . presentation at AAAS UFO Symposium, Boston 12/27/69 . "Case #4 Kirtland AFB 11/4/57" 17 Fawcett, L. & Greenwood, B. "The UFO Cover-up" Simon & Schuster Fireside Book 1992 ========================== End: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.6 Summary of Oberg/Cooper rebut.3-5 & NICAP ========================== Respectfully submitted, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.5 From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:13:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:11:16 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.5 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.5=20 continued from 4=20 ----------------------------------=20 A researcher's response to James Oberg's:=20 "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs"=20 by Jerry Cohen=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 =20 Excerpts from "The UFO Experience"=20 (Hynek takes us INSIDE "Blue Book")=20 Skeptics, I hope you're still reading this. This is where things=20 really begin to get interesting. It's why Hynek became a believer. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Getting back to Dr. Hynek. In "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal 1a" (Preface,=20 =B6 3 ) I mentioned that "it was that Air Force's own scientific=20 consultant who actually proved to us that the Air Force has not=20 been completely honest with us concerning UFOs." This next section focuses on what the Air Force's main civilian=20 scientific consultant had to say concerning Project Blue Book=20 after it was closed and his job there had ended. His revelations=20 would have shattered every skeptic's "illusion" concerning the=20 accuracy of Air Force statistics and made them realize that=20 Project Blue Book was a sham and the Air Force had to know a lot=20 more than it was telling. The only problem was that most of the=20 skeptics never read it and/or, if they did, refused to believe it. =20 It is my fervent hope that those following these essays will=20 become more enlightened in this regard. To say the following data "is extremely important," is definitely=20 the greatest understatement I have ever made in my life. It=20 proves, beyond all reasonable doubt, that Dr. Hynek was held back=20 from studying the repository of "verified" evidence in existence. =20 In other words, the same people that had claimed all along this=20 important evidence didn't exist, were keeping much of it buried=20 from Hynek and outsiders. As you will see in these excerpts from=20 his 1972 book, by his own words, Hynek was not permitted to peruse=20 the files himself. The big question was "Was it incompetence, a=20 need to feel important on the part of members of the Blue Book=20 staff or a directive from upper echelon?" =20 =20 =3D The accuracy of the following can be checked by=20 consulting the sources provided via your local libraries =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 HYNEK & PROJECT BLUE BOOK=20 (The study that wasn't)=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 { . . . . .Spock said to McCoy . . . . . "Remember!" }=20 =20 When Blue Book closed, Dr. Hynek, having had access to Blue Book=20 files for approximately twenty years, and realizing how little=20 study had been done on some of the best cases, had decided that=20 there was a lot more to UFOs than most other people realized. =20 The problem was, how was he going to get this information out to=20 the public? He needed to let them know, what *he* knew; that Blue=20 Book was a "sham", that the Colorado Study had come to the wrong=20 conclusions and that he had information he felt proved there was=20 indeed something to at least a core of these UFO reports. In 1972, his book "The UFO Experience" was published and was=20 earthshaking to those of us that had been following the UFO=20 controversy closely. Besides the classifications he delineated=20 concerning the phenomena, etc., Hynek also included revealing=20 inside details on both Blue Book and the Condon Study. The most=20 shattering our consciousness regarding Blue Book concerned twenty=20 pages described as "Excerpts from a letter by J. Allen Hynek to=20 Colonel Raymond S. Sleeper" on Oct. 7, 1968. <1> It aptly=20 demonstrated that Blue Book had been a "non-study" and made those=20 of us who read his book painfully aware of how little was=20 accomplished by the project the Air Force touted as its=20 "scientific analysis" of UFOs. The letter is both his evaluation=20 of Project Blue Book and a plea for the Air Force to take the UFO=20 subject more seriously. =20 After reading this, it is hard to imagine that someone, somewhere=20 wasn't taking it more seriously. Our Air Force has been and is,=20 the finest "human" Air Force in the world. In "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.4" I made several statements that may=20 have appeared controversial to some. Three of them were: =20 1) ". . . things concerning the Air Force weren't as we had=20 thought"; =20 2) "Eventually other things surfaced that made it crystal clear=20 the Air Force had to know a lot more than it was willing to tell." =20 and =20 3) ". . . a project (Blue Book) that, as we will discover later,=20 had become an embarrassment to itself." There are five sections of Hynek's letter to which I wish to draw=20 everyone's attention. One of the sections I haven't included was=20 their own (the Air Force's) consultant's plea to take UFOs more=20 seriously. Those wishing to view this text in its entirety can=20 view it in Appendix 4 of his book, delineated in the bibliography=20 below. The following, labeled by section and general area, are=20 quotes directly from Hynek to Sleeper. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Section A:=20 HOW "BLUE BOOK" DEALT WITH ITS MISSION.=20 ONE "CASE EXAMPLE" OF WHAT HYNEK THOUGHT WAS A REPORT=20 GOING UNHEEDED. DO WE REALLY THINK SOMEONE ELSE HIGHER =20 UP DIDN'T GET TO READ THIS CASE WHEN IT OCCURRED? "Blue Book has been charged with two missions by AFR 80- 17, both ostensibly of the same weight, since the regulations do=20 not specify otherwise. They are: (1) to determine if the UFO is a=20 possible threat to the United States, and (2) to use the=20 scientific or technical data gained from study of UFO reports. =20 Neither of these two missions is being adequately executed. First, the only logical basis on which it can be stated=20 that UFOs do not constitute a possible threat to the United States=20 is that so far nothing has happened to the United States from that=20 source. First, many reports are not investigated until weeks or=20 even months after they are made; clearly, if hostility were ever=20 intended, it would occur long before the report was investigated.=20 (That is akin to having the Pearl Harbor radar warnings [which=20 went unheeded] investigated three weeks after Pearl Harbor.) =20 Nothing did occur, so it can be gathered that UFOs, whatever they=20 may be, have not so far had hostile intent. Second, many reports of potentially high intelligence=20 value go unheeded by Blue Book. Examples: (a) [Extract from a=20 classified document of reported sighting of 5 May, 1965, contents=20 unclassified, classification refers to name, and location and=20 mission of vessel.] " . . . leading signal man reported what he=20 believed to be an aircraft. . . . When viewed through binoculars,=20 three objects were sighted in close proximity to each other; one=20 object was first magnitude, the other two were second magnitude. =20 Objects were traveling at extremely high speeds, moving toward=20 ship at undetermined altitude. At . . . . four moving targets=20 were detected on the . . . . air search radar at ranges up to=20 twenty two miles and held up to six minutes. When over the ship=20 the objects spread to circular formation directly overhead and=20 remained there for approximately three minutes. This maneuver was=20 observed both visually and by radar. The bright object which=20 hovered off the starboard quarter made the larger presentation on=20 the radar scope. The objects made several course changes during=20 the sighting, confirmed visually and by radar, and were *tracked=20 at speeds in excess of 3000 (three thousand) knots. * (J.C.=20 Asterisks are mine.) Challenges were made by IFF but not=20 answered. After the three minute hovering maneuver, the objects=20 moved in a southeasterly direction at an extremely high rate of=20 speed. Above evolution observed by CO, all bridge personnel and=20 numerous hands topside." This report was summarily evaluated by Blue Book as=20 "Aircraft," and to the best of my knowledge was never further=20 investigated. By what stretch of the imagination can we say that=20 the sighting did not represent a "possible threat" to the United=20 States? Only because nothing happened. Do we ascribe such=20 incompetence to the officers of the ship, and to the CO, to have=20 such a report submitted unless all witnesses were truly puzzled? =20 Is it conceivable that these officers could not have recognized an=20 aircraft had it had the trajectory, the apparent speed, and the=20 maneuvers ascribable to aircraft? No mention is made in the=20 report of even the possibility that ordinary aircraft were being=20 observed. The very fact that IFF challenges went unanswered=20 should have been a spur to further investigation. This implies=20 enemy craft. But the report does not even suggest the possibility=20 that these were ordinary enemy aircraft. The classified document=20 in Blue Book files does not contain further technical data=20 concerning the sighting itself. Should not the director of Blue=20 Book have exhibited at least SOME curiosity about this sighting? =20 Yet when I brought it up on more than one occasion, it was=20 dismissed with boredom. . . . . . *It is hard for the public to=20 understand how a country whose military posture is so security=20 geared could dismiss a case like this out-of-hand unless the=20 military knew more than they were telling." * (J.C. asterisks are=20 mine) =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 J.C. Was Hynek only talking about the public understanding or his=20 own as well? =20 After giving a second example similar to the above he says the=20 following:=20 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 ON HYNEK's ROLE IN BLUE BOOK (GUESSING GAME PLAYED)=20 Appendix 4, Section A, Paragraph 9=20 "It must be pointed out that neither of these cases were shown to=20 me by Blue Book personnel. I happened upon them by accident=20 during one of my visits as I scanned through material lying on a=20 desk, and not in the files; I am not permitted to peruse the files=20 themselves. I have access to the files only when I request a=20 specific case. But how can I request a specific case, to examine=20 its possible scientific merits, if I don't know of its existence?" =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 J.C. Does the above sound as though they wanted him=20 to examine the cases?=20 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 ON THE STAFF OF BLUE BOOK=20 Appendix 4, Section B, Paragraph 1=20 "The staff of Blue Book, both in numbers and in scientific=20 training, is grossly inadequate to perform the tasks assigned=20 under AFR 80-17, even were they of a mind to do so." ON SCIENTIFIC EXCHANGE WITH THE OUTSIDE SCIENTIFIC WORLD=20 OR WITHIN THE AIR FORCE ITSELF Appendix 4, Section C, Paragraph=20 1=20 "There has been little dialogue between Blue Book and the outside=20 scientific world or between Blue Book and the various scientific=20 facilities within the Air Force itself." "I know of very little scientific correspondence in the blue book=20 files; this is probably because scientists wish to correspond with=20 persons of like training. It would be pointless, for instance, to=20 query Blue Book on the scientific reasons for evaluating a given=20 case, say, as caused by a temperature inversion: Blue Book has=20 never availed itself of the meteorological know-how within the Air=20 Force itself to determine just how much of an inversion is=20 necessary to produce the effects reported by the witness, if at=20 all." =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 J.C. Communication has been found in FOIA released documents=20 that prove Hynek was wrong about this last statement. They just=20 did it quietly and he wasn't shown the reports. <2>=20 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 ". . . . . many astronomical evaluations have been made by Blue=20 Book without consulting their scientific consultant (who is, after=20 all, an astronomer) which have brought ridicule in the press. The=20 midwest flap of reports of July 31-August 1, 1965 can be cited as=20 an example."=20 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 J.C. Above, Hynek's defense concerning the erroneous Air=20 Force explanation discovered by Robert Risser, director=20 of Oklahoma City's Kirkpatrick Planetarium.=20 As a point of information, the Exeter, New Hampshire case occurred just one month later. (September 3, 1965) =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 ON STATISTICAL METHODS EMPLOYED BY BLUE BOOK=20 Appendix 4, Section D, Paragraph 1=20 "The statistical methods employed by Blue Book are a travesty on=20 the branch of mathematics known as Statistics. A chapter in a=20 doctoral dissertation at Northwestern University, soon to be=20 published, deals specifically with this aspect, and I will later=20 quote from it (Herbert Strentz, "A Study of Some Air Force=20 Statistical Procedures in Recording and Reporting Data on UFO=20 Investigations," included in "A SURVEY OF PRESS COVERAGE OF UFOs,=20 1947-1967, a doctoral thesis at the Medill School of Journalism,=20 Northwestern University") and preface it with my own observations=20 which, incidentally, I have repeatedly brought to the attention of=20 the Blue Book staff but to no avail." =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 J.C. *** Hynek states outright that the statistics=20 being quoted by Blue Book were a joke. ***=20 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 ON LACK OF ATTENTION TO SIGNIFICANT CASES=20 Appendix 4, Section E, Paragraph 1=20 "There has been lack of attention to significant UFO cases, as=20 judged by the scientific consultant and others, and too much time=20 on routine cases which contain few information bits; too much time=20 and effort are demanded of the Blue Book staff for peripheral=20 tasks (public relations, answering letters about evaluation of old=20 cases and answering requests for information from various and=20 sundry sources)." =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 J.C. Researchers who have looked at the number of people=20 employed had long ago determined that the project was incredibly=20 understaffed & under-ranked. It was felt this showed the real=20 value the military placed on it.=20 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 "A scientist who finds something in his laboratory that he can't=20 explain is no scientist if he labels it "unknown" and files it=20 away and spends the rest of his time in routine matters. It is=20 precisely the Unknowns that Blue Book should be concerned with,=20 not making impressive (?) counts of how many people cannot=20 properly identify a satellite or a meteor." =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 J.C. It appears the military was more concerned with public=20 opinion than science. Above point made by critics of the Condon=20 Report regarding *that* study as well.=20 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 INFORMATION INPUT=20 Appendix 4, Section E, Paragraph 1=20 "The information input to Blue Book is grossly inadequate and=20 certainly the cause of much of the inefficiency within the Book by=20 the almost consistent failure of UFO officers at the local Air=20 Bases to transmit adequate information to Blue Book, and, I might=20 say, it was considerably worse in the long period before there=20 were UFO officers so designated.=20 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 J.C. i.e. There were probably more cases=20 but we didn't get the proper information on them.=20 =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 ANOTHER CASE SELECTED BY HYNEK TO ILLUSTRATE THE LACK OF=20 RIGOR IN THE SCIENTIFIC METHODOLOGY OF BLUE BOOK=20 Appendix 4, Section G, Paragraph 5=20 "Incident at Redlands, California (4 Feb 68)=20 It was investigated by no one at Blue Book, superficially=20 by a member of Norton AFB, and for a total of three months by Dr.=20 Philip Seff, professor of geology, Dr. Reinhold Krantz, professor=20 of chemistry, Dr. Judson Sanderson, Professor of mathematics, and=20 artist John Brownfield, professor of art (who drew an artist's=20 conception from the descriptions given independently by the=20 witnesses and whose composite painting was verified by the=20 witnesses), all of the University of Redlands. It is of interest=20 to note that no one at Blue Book has seen fit to contact these=20 investigators and discuss their investigation at least over the=20 phone." The case itself concerns the reported sighting by some=20 twenty observers of an object with seven lights on the bottom,=20 which appeared as jets, and a row of eight to ten lights on top=20 which were alternating in color. The object was reported to have=20 proceeded at a low altitude (estimated about 300 feet) in a=20 northeasterly direction for about a mile, to have come to a stop=20 and to have hovered briefly, jerked forward, hovered again, then=20 to have shot straight upward, stopped, hovered again, then wavered=20 to the northwest, gained altitude, and then to have shot off to=20 the northwest with a strong burst of speed. It was under=20 observation for about 5 minutes. The object was estimated to have=20 been at least 50 feet in diameter. The estimates of 300 feet=20 altitude and 50 feet must be considered jointly; only the apparent=20 diameter can be judged, of course, but on the assumption of a=20 given distance the estimate of 50 feet was arrived at. Clearly,=20 if the object had been several miles away, the unchanged apparent=20 diameter would lead to an unbelievably large object. For these=20 reasons these estimates cannot be summarily dismissed. You will undoubtedly be interested to know that Blue Book=20 classified this object as "probable aircraft." How this was=20 arrived at with no investigation is, of course, a striking example=20 of methodology of Blue Book. Norton AFB reported that March AFB=20 radar painted no unusual targets (ignoring completely the fact=20 that an object at 300 feet altitude would have been missed by this=20 radar) and that a light plane had landed at Tri-City airport at=20 19:15 PST, whereas a check of the police blotter and of all=20 witnesses, agreed that the sighting could not have occurred=20 earlier than 19:20. Further, a check made by the university=20 professors, (but apparently not even thought of by Blue Book) with=20 the authorities at the airfield showed that the plane was coming=20 in from Los Angeles and never approached closer than six miles to=20 the city of Redlands and therefore never passed over the city of=20 Redlands, whereas all witnesses agree that it was actually close=20 over the city. The plane which landed (which Blue Book did not=20 think to inquire about) was a Bonanza single engine propeller=20 aircraft which the professors took the trouble to examine=20 while in its hangar at the airfield. [The Redlands case is the=20 sole subject of a book now in production by David Branch and=20 Robert Klinn, entitled "Inquiry at Redlands."] The discrepancy between what was reported and the Blue=20 Book evaluation is so great as to be laughable. The law, further,=20 states that planes cannot fly lower than 1000 feet over Redlands. =20 It appears inconceivable that twenty or so witnesses would=20 misidentify a light, single engine plane, several miles away, as a=20 brilliantly lighted, unconventional aircraft at 300 feet that=20 jerked, hovered, and sped away, and went straight up in the=20 overcast." =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 J.C. Mind you, this was the Air Force's own "number one"=20 civilian consultant who had said all this. I believe it is=20 obvious that Dr. Hynek's words are in full support of the three=20 statements I indicated earlier in "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.4". Now=20 you can see at least one reason why the Air Force wanted to=20 dismantle Project Blue Book; a project I said that....... "had=20 become an embarrassment to itself." The "solid bedrock" skeptics=20 once stood upon, (i.e. the Air Force's claim that most UFOs have=20 been explained), crumbled to bits with the publishing of Hynek's=20 "The UFO Experience" in 1972. Likewise, so did Air Force=20 credibility with regards to how honest the Air Force was being=20 with the public concerning UFOs. REGARDING COOPER & THE EDWARDS AFB PHOTOGRAPHS: Mr. Oberg's=20 following words regarding the Edwards AFB photographs take on a=20 different meaning when one has been appraised of the preceding: Oberg =B6 49 Now, in fact those photographs did not vanish=20 after all: they had been sent to Project Blue Book, at Wright-=20 Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio, per regulations (I even have talked=20 to the officer who did the original Blue Book interviews, former=20 Captain Hubert Davis, who had been greatly impressed with the=20 witness's sincerity). Oberg =B6 50 The Air Force must have found a satisfactory=20 solution -- but what?........ That answer had been around since=20 1957, but not widely circulated in the UFO media for obvious=20 reasons: the Air Force said it had been a weather balloon.....=20 A weather balloon. Where have we heard that before? Perhaps the=20 reasons were a lot less obvious than Mr. Oberg has previously=20 thought. The real question is "How valid is the Air Force's=20 explanation?"=20 Also, cases such as the initial one quoted from Section A=20 this installment, as well as other military or government cases=20 that happen in a close proximity of time, such as the ones I=20 mentioned in "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.4", (i.e. "Coast Guard Cutter=20 Sebago RADAR/visual case", "James Stokes, engineer from the=20 Missile Development Center at Holloman AFB, Alamagordo N.M.", and=20 Kirtland AFB case"), occurring within 4 days of each other if not=20 less, lend great support to the argument that the Air Force and=20 our government know more about UFOs, and perhaps even what they=20 are, than they have presently acknowledged. I'll examine these=20 closely after our next installment. However, imagine, with the=20 RADARs we now possess; RADARs that can paint an actual picture of=20 an object on a screen, what statistics and data the branches of=20 our service and government must already have? The visual/radar=20 Belgium Sightings from 1989/90 have added solid NATO (North=20 American Treaty Alliance) gun camera data, etc. as well. <3> Furthermore, to think that another department in our defense=20 system hasn't been quietly receiving all this UFO information=20 without studying it would be to imply that our defense system is=20 highly incompetent. Since we all know this is not the truth, I=20 would hope it is safe to assume that some defense group(s),=20 somewhere is (are) well appraised of the situation. FOIA=20 documents obtained through standard requests and lawsuits, where=20 necessary, have apparently confirmed, at the minimum, definite=20 interest from various parts of the government regarding UFOs even=20 though the public has been led to think otherwise. <4> =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D=20 Bibliography:=20 <1> Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company=20 1972, appendix four (Excerpt of a Letter from J. Allen Hynek to=20 Colonel Raymond S. Sleeper)=20 <2> Fawcett, L. & Greenwood, B. "The UFO Cover-up" Simon &=20 Schuster Fireside Book 1992=20 <3> CUFOS Journal (International UFO Reporter) . July/Aug 1990=20 . p. 23 : Documentation displayed to public in an "Unsolved=20 Mysteries" television episode narrated by Robert Stack=20 <4> Newsday (Long Island newspaper) Fri 1/19/79 "UFOs seen at=20 Air Bases in 1975 : Gersten, Peter . Frontiers of Science .=20 May/June 1981 . "What the U.S. Government Knows About Unidentified=20 Flying Objects" : Fawcett, L. & Greenwood, B. "The UFO Cover-up"=20 Simon & Schuster Fireside Book 1992=20 =20 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=20 ". . . and McCoy became a raving maniac until he=20 gave Spock back his soul. "=20 "Who is Spock? . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . YOU are!"=20 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 End: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.5=20 ----------------------------------=20 HYNEK & PROJECT BLUE BOOK=20 (The study that wasn't)=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 My next installment is a two-page summation of what we've=20 discussed so far and ideas where to locate cases which have the=20 greatest potential of being judged "the real thing" if proper=20 investigations were to be conducted thereupon. Immediately=20 following that summation will be a detailed accounting of the=20 three cases I mentioned which, when combined with all other=20 available evidence, strongly suggests there is good reason to=20 believe Gordon Cooper was probably telling the truth concerning=20 his 1957 Edwards AFB claim. =20 Respectfully,=20 Jerry Cohen=20 E-mail: rjcohen@li.net=20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Copyright & 'Fair Use' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Feb 97 09:09:43 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:55:46 -0500 Subject: Copyright & 'Fair Use' All, Since there has been a lot of discussion here over the Fair Use exemption from copyright, I asked some legal friends to do a little digging for me. It seems quite clear from recent rulings that the Fair Use exemption is only applicable to non profit entities, and not to any for profit business. The US Court of Appeals for the Sixth District recently ruled on a case in which a company had copied sections from a number of books, sections of varying length, and put them together in packs which they then sold to students. The ruling against the company clearly says that the deciding factor was that the company is a for-profit enterprise. The court skirted making a broader ruling by stating "As to the proposition that it would be fair use for the students or professors to make their own copies, the issue is by no means free from doubt." Anyone who wants to wade through the legal jargon and try to figure out just how Fair Use would be applied can find the full text of this case at: http://www.law.emory.edu/6circuit/nov96/9a0357p.06.html If you go there, happy reading! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Volker Spielberg From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Feb 97 09:09:41 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:54:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Volker Spielberg >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:25:52 -0500 >From: James Easton <100626.2242@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Volker Spielberg >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, Minor correction. It was not Jacques Pradel who did the telephone interview with VS, but Nico Maillard, one of the researchers on the TV program. Pradel was the "front man" for the program. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Edward AFB UFO/Gordon Cooper's Account From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 11:24:40 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:22:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Edward AFB UFO/Gordon Cooper's Account Re: Jerry Cohen's Oberg/Cooper Article I asked Barry Greenwood about this case; he has a USAF film from Edwards AFB in 1957 which is probably the film referred to by Cooper. It shows a white object which is rather unremarkable in the distance. No landing. The Project Blue Book photographs and films at the National Archives are contained in a separate entry RG 341 Entry 63D (I believe). The description says that the Entry contains the photographs on the Project Blue Book microfilm and text records some of which were NOT microfilmed. No doubt here are some of Project Blue Book's "missing cases". I tried to view this Entry. When I put in my request, there were no archivists present in the modern military office, so I did not have my request countersigned by an archivist. The clerk reviewed my request which was filled out correctly, and submitted it. However, one of the pages came to me shortly after and said my request was denied due to the fact the items were available on microfilm in the reading room. I protested that the entry description indicated text material that was not microfilmed was contained in the entry. He told me that an archivist's authorization was still required. As it was Friday afternoon, this was unlikely until Monday. In any case I was too worn out from long all day sessions at the Archives and then 2-4 hours copying material at Richard Hall's and others' homes. So I did not pursue it. I wish I had. I have tried to get several people in the Washington, DC area who are aiding Project 1947 to go to the Archives. However, the College Park facility is out of the way. And the Archives seem to be intimidating to people who have not done any research since high school or college. Hopefully, I will get back there soon. There were significant new releases of material to the public in November. One archivist told us that a number of FOIA requests would be satisfied by these releases, but there is so much material we should come and look for ourselves for other items of interest. Jan Aldrich PROJECT 1947
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Copyright & 'Fair Use' From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Feb 97 11:15:33 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:20:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Copyright & 'Fair Use' >Date: 06 Feb 97 09:09:43 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: Errol Bruce-Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Fair Use [snip] >Anyone who wants to wade through the legal jargon and try >to figure out just how Fair Use would be applied can find >the full text of this case at: >http://www.law.emory.edu/6circuit/nov96/9a0357p.06.html Gee, Bob, How can we believe anything Emory Univ. says since they have Dr. Courtney Brown working there? Seriously, I'm not sure this case applies since this company was actually re-selling copyrighted material. That is different from using a single frame of a video to illustrate a news story. Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Feb 97 10:20:38 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:18:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 02:11:01 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Hi Bill, >I see. So he sold it to both the Japanese and Bob Kiviat knowing >that the face could be recognized. Is that right? This is so >confusing to me. I thought that Ray was trying to protect this >man's identity. Something is wrong with this picture. Ray says that's the chance Jack took when he sold Ray this video and after being told of the problems flatly refused to do it over again. I think Ray is pretty disgusted with Jack at this point, and the feeling may be mutual. Ray's agreement with Jack, as I understand it, was not to reveal his name or physical location, and he has honored this. I think he will quietly be pleased if someone "outs" the old guy. >Now this is weird. I find it hard to believe that Ray didn't have >more control over the broadcast in Japan than that. After viewing >the video I can see why Bob is having such a hard time generating >any interest in it. But hopefully he will find someone to foot >the bill and televise it here in the US for the public to see. That's what Ray said. As to how much control he would have over broadcast dates, I just don't know. The Fuji Network people may have decided to "scoop" the world media on this and intentionally misunderstood. If you have had any dealings with Japanese businessmen, you will know what I am talking about! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@BrunNet.net> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 18:35:16 PST Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:27:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education >From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Stanton Friedman's Education? >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:00:41 -0700 >I don't write here often, but I do have a question. Is Stanton >Friedman a Ph.D and if so what is that Ph.D in? I saw on another >mailing list where it was stated Dr Friedman has no Ph.D and I >thought I heard he did. To set the matter straight, I do NOT have a PhD and always try to correct people who call me Dr., like Larry King. I have a BS from the University of Chicago l955. I have an MSc from the University of Chicago in 1956, Both are in Physics. I took some other courses in industry and at the U. of California in Berkeley. I had attended Rutgers U. in New Brunswick, NJ majoring in Physics from l951-1953. My job title in industry was Nuclear Physicist or Senior Scientist, etc. I belong to the American Nuclear Soc., the American Phys. Soc., The Amer. Assoc. for the Advancement of Science, the Amer. Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. I have published in Transactions of the American Nuclear Society and elsewhere and done numerous technical reports. My work was in industry (GE,GM, Westinghouse, Aerojet General Nucleonics, TRW Systems, McDonnel Douglas Astronautics) not academia. Most of my industrial work was classified,but some has been declassified. I have an 8 page Curriculum Vitae which also lists my 73 +UFO papers as well as nuclear papers. My US Address is POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958. In Canada 79 Pembroke Crescent, Fredericton, NB E3B 2V1.. Ph 506-457-0232. FX 506-450-3832. Email fsphys@brunnet.nb.ca. Stan Friedman PS I did not send a fax about Tel Star to Art Bell.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Red lights over West Columbia From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 10:34:49 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:24:19 -0500 Subject: Red lights over West Columbia Subject: Red lights over West Columbia Sent: 2/6/97 12:01 AM Received: 2/6/97 9:00 AM From: Nancy, nmarcu@mastnet.net To: pparri@republic.net It is now 11:30 p.m., I have tried for over 4 hrs to get on line and this is the first time I have got on. I called the West Columbia Police and also the Sheriff dept. to see if anyone else reported the lights. They said no. I think my husbands directions are all mixed up. If you are coming out of Brazoria around that long streach where you can go 70mph thats where he spoted the formation of lights. He said from that distance they looked about above tree level as he was coming closer to West Columbia, just before you get to the 4 lane hwy he said he had to look up as they passed over him. He said he thought they were about a thousand feet up, I told him I don't know how far a thousand feet would be, so he said about 3 radio towers high. here is the formation he drew. Sighting around 7:30 p.m. 0 0 0 0 0 If you were to number each 0 as a light, the one to the far right he said was the tail end of the formation. The red lights would come on in random order, no two would be on at the same time, say the flashes of light were a second apart. So you might have 1 2 3 4 5 and the lights might light up in 31452 random order. He said they just cruised across the sky in a steady formation. So if you were coming out of Brazoria, they would have come from the left hand side of the road over to the right side an on to Bailys Prarie or Angelton or maybe Lake Jackson area. He said all the lights were on the same level, but he said they were spaced apart more than a football field length would be. I asked if he could make out the shape of the objects and he said all he could see was the lights at one point he described them as coming out of a cone shaped area. He was all wound up, because he thinks this ufo stuff is a bunch of hooey. But now he is wondering just what it was he saw. The guy in the car behind him ran off the road. He doesn't know if its because he slowed down to stare at the objects or if the guy behind him also saw the objects. He's not making much sense to me, because the way he drew his formation picture is backwards in relationship of what direction he said the things were going. It couldn't have been a radio tower, because radio towers don't cruise overhead to the other part of the sky. I don't think it was helicopters, there would have been more lights etc, So I don't know what he could have saw. But it sure shook him up! I tried the bulletin board, but could not find where to post anything and also I didn't see any thing new except for the menu. Also for some reason, everytime I try to leave I get a error and my system crashes. All the ufo sightings were the same ones that have been up for over months now. So I don't know what I'm doing wrong!! Nancy Marcum S.Tx.Regional Director Skywatch International nmarcu@mastnet.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 07:44:38 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:28:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education > I don't write here often, but I do have a question. Is Stanton > Friedman a Ph.D and if so what is that Ph.D in? I saw on another > mailing list where it was stated Dr Friedman has no Ph.D and I > thought I heard he did. Stanton Friedman has a Master's in, I believe, Nuclear Engineering, but no Ph.D. Thus, it is ok to call him "Mister" Friedman. Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Historical File - Smith, Wilbert B.(rockhouse) From: Errol Bruce-Knapp Date: 11-10-95 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 16:16:12 -0500 Subject: Historical File - Smith, Wilbert B.(rockhouse) Canadian Ufologists Smith, Wilbert B.(rockhouse) (1910-62) Canadian Radio Engineer and Ufologist. from material by Arthur Bray, David Haisell and Greg Kanon, edited by Errol Bruce-Knapp, November '95 Smith was born in Lethbridge, Alberta, graduated from University of British Columbia in 1933 with a B.Sc. in electrical engineering and went on to obtain his M.A.Sc in 1934 at the same university. After graduation he became chief engineer for radio station CJOR in Vancouver. Smith did much to encourage improvements in the technical side of broadcasting facilities in Canada, and took a strong personal interest in the formation of the Canadian Association of Broadcast Consultants, which often advised the federal Department of Transport (DOT) on frequency allocation and other technical matters. He also played an important role in liaison between that department and the Canadian Radio Technical Planning Board. In 1939, he joined the federal Department of Transport. He was engaged in engineering Canada's war-time monitoring service and, in 1947, was in charge of establishing a network of ionospheric measurement stations, several of which were in isolated parts of the North. At the time of his death, he was superintendent of Radio Regulations Engineering with the Department of Transport, responsible for the engineering aspects of all matters concerning the use of radio in Canada, including equipment standards, radio relay systems (micro-wave), broadcast facilities and interference studies. Smith's area of research was in radio wave propagation, a study which eventually led him into fields such as auroras, cosmic radiation, atmospheric radio-activity and geo-magnetism. It was the latter of these fields which really attracted his attention and caused him to speculate that the potential energy of the Earth's magnetic field might be extracted and used. He had already progressed to the stage of developing a crude experimental model to demonstrate his theory, and successfully tested the unit which, in his words, "demonstrated the soundness of the basic principles in a qualitative manner and provided useful data for the design of a better unit." 1 Smith's curiosity got the better of him when he read a magazine article on 'Flying Saucers' in the late 1940s and from then on he took a great interest in investigating flying saucers or UFOs. In DOT, he was engaged in research on the collapse of the Earth's magnetic field as a source of energy. As Smith believed that flying saucers may be operating on magnetic principles, it seemed that this work of DOT might explain their operation. He believed, quote: "that we are on the track of something which may well prove to be the introduction to a new technology." This "is borne out by the investigations which are being carried on at the present time in relation to flying saucers." 2 The investigations he was referring to were those being carried out by the US Government at that time. In late 1950 Smith had attended a North American Radio Broadcasting conference in Washington, DC, and while there, made enquiries through the Canadian Embassy staff who were able to inform him that: - the matter of UFOs was the most highly classified subject in the US, rating higher than the H-bomb, - UFOs exist, - their modus operandi is unknown, but concentrated effort is being made by a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush, (Editor: Of 'MJ12' fame) - the entire matter is considered by US authorities to be of tremendous significance.[3] Smith felt the preliminary result of his work in geo-magnetism correlated with the available data on reported UFO behavior, and that they were fairly close to some of the answers. The Defence Research Board liaison officer at the Canadian Embassy in Washington evidently agreed with Smith for he was extremely anxious for him to get in touch with Dr. Solandt, Chairman of the Defence Research Board upon Smith's return to Ottawa, to discuss with him future investigations along the line of geo-magnetism energy release. Consequently, upon his return to Canada, Smith met with Solandt on November 20, and obtained his support. Solandt agreed that work on geo-magnetic energy should proceed as rapidly as possible and offered DRB's co-operation in providing laboratory facilities, acquisition of equipment, and specialized personnel. 4 On November 21 he outlined his proposal in writing to the Controller of Telecommunications, indicating Defence Research Board's support and requesting that a project be set up and carried out on a part-time basis "until such time as sufficient results would warrant more definitive action". 5 The proposal outlined seven avenues of investigation, all dealing with geo-magnetic research, none dealing with UFO investigation. 6 He proposed the work be classified since he felt that the lesser known and little explored aspects of magnetism might hold the key to a new and significant technology, and its impact on our civilization would have to be assess if his suspicions proved correct. Commander C.P. Edwards, then Deputy Minister of Transport for Air Services gave the project his blessing, requesting that he be kept posted from time to time. It is curious that the avenues of investigation Smith proposed made no reference to UFOs. Could it have been that Smith willfully omitted such reference in order to ensure a greater probability that the project would be approved? Or was he only interested in UFOs because they seemed to be demonstrating that some of his concepts were apparently being applied, whereas his main interest was indeed in the new technology which he felt he was on the verge of initiating? Smith's curiosity was responsible for Project Magnet's initiation in November 1950, and for its relatively secret progress for a few years at least. It is significant, though, that the official 'Magnet' report, when eventually released many years later, dealt only with UFO sighting analysis, and made no mention of Smith's geo-magnetics research. Curiously, the Canadian government in all its wisdom, saw the need for still another project to analyze UFO reports, less classified than Project Magnet, but still confidential. During the early months of 1952 there was a noticeable increase in the number of UFO incidents covered by the Canadian Press. 7,8,9 Several of these involved reports of disc-shaped craft over Royal Canadian Air Force bases, many reported by service personnel themselves. The Defence Research Board (DRB) noted this increase, and DRB chairman Solandt asked staff member Harold Oatway to get a committee together "to see if we can make anything out of these flying saucer reports". 10 Had Solandt forgotten about Smith and Magnet? It's doubtful. Oatway was a friend of Smith and knew of his involvement. As we shall see Smith had not been forgotten, but the reason for setting up a further project remains unclear, unless, of course, Smith was too busy with his research. Why they didn't merely enlarge Magnet remains a mystery. On April 22, 1952, the committee gathered by Oatway held its first meeting, with Peter Millman, head of the Dominion Observatory, as its chairman. Smith, Edwards and Solandt were also among those present. It was agreed that there was a need to formally investigate UFOs, and that a committee should be formed to lead this activity and to standardize procedures, etc.11 From the minutes of this meeting we read, "This committee was to prepare a brief of instructions for observers; examine interrogation ; and to establish a standard method of recording and indexing for subsequent analysis." 12 (And if I may be permitted, I would like to note that thirty years later, we are still doing the same thing!) It was also decided that "the function of DRB should be mainly advisory as the collection of reports could best be done by field organizations." 13 Two days later, the newly formed committee assembled, classifying its work as 'confidential', and identifying themselves as 'Project Theta'. On May 19, 1952 they met for a second time and among other things, re-named themselves 'Project Second Storey' since 'Theta' was apparently not on the list of valid names for projects of this type. On June 25, 1952 Smith submitted an interim report on Project Magnet in which he stated that it appeared evident that flying saucers are emissaries from other civilizations and actually operate on magnetic principles, magnetic principles which we have failed to grasp due to our not paying enough attention to the structure of fields in our study of physics. 14 On July 31, Project Second Storey held their third meeting where, among other items of business, a letter containing several of Smiths motions, presumably based on his progress in Magnet, was tabled and discussed. Also, the final form of the 'Project Second Storey Sighting Report was approved, and distribution of same was determined. There was no mention in the minutes of any reference to Smiths decisive statement in his interim 'Magnet' report. The fourth meeting of Second Storey was not held until November 17, followed by the fifth on March 9, 1953. Smith had been working on some 'weighting factors' to be applied to witness testimony to help arrive at some measure of report significance. At the fifth meeting his system was adopted temporarily without alterations. At this point, though, it was probably felt irrelevant since Chairman Millman noted "that evidence to date (and note that this was not Second Storey's evidence to which he was referring, since they had so far only managed to standardize their procedures) did not seem to warrant an all out investigation by the Canadian Services but it might be well to continue to collect at some central location all forms which may be submitted to the Services." 15 Millman reached this conclusion following discussions with the chairman of DRB on the future activities of the committee. They seemed to be again ignoring Smith's statement in his preliminary report on Magnet; or were they trying to play it down? And as it turned out, Millman's conclusion was based on activities in the U.S. in the wake of the Robertson Panel, which is now know to have been a CIA whitewash. So here is further evidence of top level U.S. Canadian inter-relationship in the UFO field, and if we assume this inter-relationship continued after the Robertson Panel, it is safe to assume that investigation of UFOs in Canada was placed under the control of some branch of Canadian Intelligence. We can only guess that Smith's interim 'Magnet' report probably played a significant part in this assumed decision. In concluding the fifth meeting of Second Storey, it was agreed that a further meeting would take place after the Department of Transport had completed its analysis. That is, after the Magnet Report was finished. This was accomplished on August 10, 1953 but there are no minutes available of any further Second Storey meetings, although there is evidence that further meetings did take place. One wonders why the minutes were nod made public. Recent correspondence between Canadian ufologist Arthur Bray and Dr. Allen McNamara (without even having been asked the question) that the Project Magnet report was submitted to Second Storey in 1953. (This from a letter dated July 25, 1979.) 16 So it was 26 years before any indication of further Second Storey meetings surfaced. During the summer of 1953, Wilbert Smith obtained approval from the Department of Transport (DOT) to set up some UFO detection equipment at Shirley's Bay, near Ottawa, and by the end of October the installation was complete. The instruments included a gamma-ray counter, a magnetometer, a radio receiver (to detect the presence of radio noise, and a recording gravimeter. 17 ------------------------This line is 70 characters--------------------- News of Magnet finally leaked to the media presumably because of the conspicuous nature of the Shirley's Bay installation. 18 As expected, denials were attempted; on the very day the station went into operation Dr. Solands was quoted as saying reports of the station's establishment were completely untrue. However, he was forced to back down on this, and later claimed he actually had only said that such a station was not being operated by his department, and that he personally had no knowledge of its existence. 19 Even this was difficult to accept since the installation was located next to DOT's Ionosphere Station on Defence Research Board (DRB) property, and in fact, the building was loaned to Smith by DRB. 20 Public awareness of this project was to be a source of frustration, annoyance and embarrassment to DRB and DOT, and it put Smith in an awkward position since he was still officially a member of the Second Storey Committee. This was probably a contributing factor to the contents of Millman's November 21st summary report of Project Second Storey. He announced that Project Second Storey's forms and instructions for filing of sighting information were available for any government department seriously interested in pursuing the matter further, but the committee felt that, owing to the impossibility of checking independently the details of the majority of sightings , most of the material did not lend itself to a scientific method of investigation. 21 Could it be that they were not aware of the scientific study being conducted in the U.S. at that time by the Air Force on UFO reports collect from June 1, 1947 to December 31, 1952? The study was initiated in 1952 and continued through 1954, and proved beyond a doubt the existence of an unidentified phenomenon, even though the conclusions were worded in such a way as to divert attention from the evidence. The study to which I am referring was known as 'Project Blue Book Special Report #14' which is probably the most constantly referred to in the literature of Stanton Friedman, and more recently was the subject of a paper by Bruce Maccabee in the Journal of UFO Studies, Vol. 1, No. 1, entitled the 'Scientific Investigation of Unidentified Flying Objects'. It is difficult to believe Millman's statement, and perhaps his remarks were designed to appease 'somebody' in the event Smith's association with Second Storey eventually became public knowledge, and also to save face in view of the Adamski & contactee activity now the public eye. At 3:01 in the afternoon of August 8, 1954 the instrumentation at the Shirley's Bay installation registered an unusual disturbance. In Smith's words "the gravimeter went wild", 22 as a much greater deflection was registered than could be explained by conventional interference such as passing aircraft. Smith and his colleagues rushed outside only to find a heavy overcast. Whatever was up there as hidden in the clouds. The only evidence they had was the deflection registered on the chart recorder paper. Two days later the controller of Telecommunications issued a form letter, which was also authorised as a press release, admitting that the DOT had been engaged in the study of UFOs for three and a half years, that considerable data had been collected and analysed, but it had not been possible to reach any definite conclusion, and since new data simply confirmed existing data, there seemed little point in carrying the project any further on an official level. This, despite the fact that "new data... confirmed existing data", which is what one would expect of a positive scientific experiment! Project Magnet was to be dropped, but Smith would continue to receive and catalogue data on an unofficial basis.23 In Smith's words, Magnet went "underground"24 probably joining Second Storey. The detection of 'whatever it was' two days before had evidently inspired rapid action. Does it seem likely that a project, which had finally apparently detected what it was looking for, would be terminated? Justification for changing to a 'Top Secret' classification perhaps... It is apparent that pressure was applied to Smith to down-play or even deny the Shirley's Bay incident. Researcher Greg Kanon writes: "In an abrupt about face, Smith announced, before the May 17th 1955 session of the Commons' Special Committee on Broadcasting, that no UFOs had ever been detected at the Shirley's Bay Station. At about this same time, Captain Edward J. Ruppelt (who earlier served as chief UFO investigator for the U.S. Air Force) was reportedly told by RCAF Intelligence officers that only 'officially' had the Shirley's Bay Station produced negative results. These developments led some UFO researchers to conclude that Smith had been successfully silenced by officialdom."25 Whatever the case, Smith kept busy over the next few years, and we get a glimmer of what he was up to from a presentation he gave about five years later to the Illuminating Engineering Society's Canadian Regional Conference during which he stated: "We know that gravity is not all Newton visualised. Far from being a basic force in nature, it is really a derived function, and is the consequence of a dynamic condition, not a static one. We know what goes into its makeup; we know its formula and we have a pretty good idea of how to go about bringing it under control. We have conducted experiments that show that it is possible to create artificial gravity (not Centrifugal force) and to alter the gravitational field of the Earth. This we have done. It is Fact. The next step is to learn the rules and do the engineering necessary to convert the principle into workable hardware." (26) That statement was made in 1959. The question is, what has been achieved since then? It has been claimed by some that Smith turned away from orthodox scientific work to the more metaphysical aspects of what he termed 'the new science'. Such was not the case. He carried on his normal scientific work and at the same time delved into the science of metaphysics as a possible answer to the UFO mystery, which apparently produced some concrete results in the laboratory. In the realm of purely orthodox science, Smith was working on the development of an anti-gravity device and believed himself to be on the verge of an important breakthrough just prior to his death. In the area of metaphysics, Smith claimed to communicate with 'occupants' of UFOs through a contact who provided him with certain information. One instance pertained to areas of reduced binding in our atmosphere. All matter is held together by forces which are not clearly understood and are known as 'binding forces'. Smith was informed that there are areas of reduced binding and that many air crashes were due to entering such regions, where the planes literally fell apart. He was told that means of detecting such areas were easily available to us and that suitable instruments could be constructed. By building a 'binding meter' according to the principles given to him, he was able to locate regions of reduced binding. He recommended to the government that further investigation be conducted, but because of the unorthodox source of his information, he was unable to obtain official recognition of this work and his letters were added to the 'crank file'. The last ten years of Smith's life were devoted to intensive thought and study. He formulated several of his ideas into a book titled 'The New Science'. Smith died of cancer on December 27, 1962. The respect he commanded was reflected in his being posthumously awarded the Lieutenant-Colonel Keith S. Rogers Memorial Engineering Award for dedicated service in the advancement of the Technical Standards in Canadian Broadcasting. This award, presented by the Canadian General Electric Company, was well deserved. Smith was one of the foremost thinkers of his time - a well respected ufologist - one of the first of our breed. 1. Memorandum to the Controller of Telecommunications, W.B. Smith, Nov. 21, 1950, p.2. 2. ibid, p.2. 3. ibid, p.3. 4. ibid, p.4. 5. ibid, p.4. 6. Project Magnet, program, W.B. Smith, p.2. 7. Ottawa Journal, April 16, 1952. 8. Toronto Globe & Mail, April 16, 1952. 9. Ottawa Journal, April 17, 1952. 10. 'I Believe Flying Saucers Come From Outer Space', by Alan Phillips, Weekend Magazine, V.7, #27, 1957, p.4. 11. Minutes of a DRB meeting to discuss flying saucers, April 22, p.1. 12. ibid. p.1. 13. ibid. p.2. 14. Interim Report on Project Magnet, W.B. Smith, 1952. 15. Minutes of the 5th Second Storey meeting, March 9, 1953, p.2 16. The UFO Connection, Arthur Bray, Jupiter Publishing, 1979, p.69 17. The UFO Connection, Arthur Bray, Jupiter Publishing, 1979, p.63. 18. Sudbury Star, Nov. 12, 1953. 19. Toronto Daily Star, Nov. 14, 1953. 20. Letter from Dr. N.M. Millman, Sept. 24, 1968, NRC files. 21. Project Second Storey - Summary Report, Dr. P.M. Millman, chairman, Second Storey Committee, Nov. 21, 1953. Bray, p.63. 22. Form letter signed by the Controller of Telecommunications, DOT, Aug. 10, 1954. 23. 'Project Magnet - The Canadian Flying Saucer Study', Topside, Winter/Spring 1963. 24. Canadian UFO Report, Vol.3, No.6, p.23. 25. 'Sputniks, Saucers and Spacecraft', W.B. Smith, - a paper delivered to the Illuminating Engineering Society, Canada Regional Conference, at a luncheon in Ottawa, June 11,1959.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Copyright & 'Fair Use' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Feb 97 18:15:55 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:33:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Copyright & 'Fair Use' >Date: 06 Feb 97 11:15:33 EST >From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Copyright & 'Fair Use' Terry, >How can we believe anything Emory Univ. says since they >have Dr. Courtney Brown working there? >Seriously, I'm not sure this case applies since this company >was actually re-selling copyrighted material. That is different >from using a single frame of a video to illustrate a news story. Courtney Brown is not in the legal department, I hope!!! Well my legal eagles say the case does apply, since the question was whether the copier was a for-profit company. Since the question originated about Fortean Times, and they would re-sell the photo as part of their magazine, and they are apparently a for-profit enterprise, it would depend on the court to decide whether it applies or not. I think the fair use exemption was originally created for Public Television and such. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Copyright & 'Fair Use' From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:42:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:29:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Copyright & 'Fair Use' Hmmm. On the question of "fair use," the legal doctrine that grants certain exemptions from copyright, Bob Shell writes: > I asked some legal > friends to do a little digging for me. It seems quite > clear from recent rulings that the Fair Use exemption is > only applicable to non profit entities, and not to any > for profit business. [details of court case snipped] Well, in one way Fair Use is clearly applicable to for-profit businesses. The New York Times (a for-profit enterprise) routinely quotes excerpts from books in its Sunday book review, and in news stories. Nor have I ever hesitated to do that, anywhere that I've ever written. Even in a critical essay not about a book, I've felt free to quote, and nobody ever told me not to. If I was writing about Beethoven, I wouldn't hesitate to quote from copyrighted books or articles about him. In a recent essay on abductions, I felt free to quote from Budd Hopkins, and from copyrighted papers in psychology journals. The court case Bob cites covered a very specific instance -- a company that had reprinted excerpts from books used in college courses, and put the excerpts on sale. As Bob writes, >The ruling against the company clearly says > that the deciding factor was that the company is a > for-profit enterprise. The court skirted making a broader > ruling by stating "As to the proposition that it would > be fair use for the students or professors to make their > own copies, the issue is by no means free from doubt." Point taken, but this is a specialized situation, and a clear copyright violation. The company in question was making money from the book excerpts themselves, not from a book or essay or video that briefly quoted the books. It's far from the situation when a TV news program shows an excerpt from a video that has been made public, either by being put on sale or by being itself shown on TV. As I've said earlier, when I worked at Entertainment Weekly we didn't hesitate to use clips from videos in the magazine, even if we had to tape them off TV. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Feb 97 18:15:56 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:35:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education >From: rich.boylan@24stex.com >Organization: 24th Street Exchange >Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 07:44:38 -0800 >To: updates@globalserve.net > > I don't write here often, but I do have a question. Is Stanton > > Friedman a Ph.D and if so what is that Ph.D in? I saw on another > > mailing list where it was stated Dr Friedman has no Ph.D and I > > thought I heard he did. > Stanton Friedman has a Master's in, I believe, Nuclear >Engineering, but no Ph.D. Thus, it is ok to call him "Mister" Friedman. > Richard Boylan, Ph.D. Aww geee! You mean we can't just call him Stan???? Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:51:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:31:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@BrunNet.net> > Subject: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education > Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 18:35:16 PST > >From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Stanton Friedman's Education? > >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:00:41 -0700 > >I don't write here often, but I do have a question. Is Stanton > >Friedman a Ph.D and if so what is that Ph.D in? I saw on another > >mailing list where it was stated Dr Friedman has no Ph.D and I > >thought I heard he did. > To set the matter straight, I do NOT have a PhD and always try to > correct people who call me Dr., like Larry King. I have a BS from > the University of Chicago l955. I have an MSc from the University > of Chicago in 1956, Both are in Physics. I took some other > courses in industry and at the U. of California in Berkeley. I > had attended Rutgers U. in New Brunswick, NJ majoring in Physics > from l951-1953. Thank you for taking the time to give me this information. I like to get information from the horses mouth when possible. Julie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7a From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:25:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 23:20:59 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7a Skeptics & Mr. Oberg, If you've read nothing else please read numbers 7abc very carefully. I believe that the proof of extraterrestrial visitation lies in the material in these next two essays. Is there numerical data in them? No. Are the cases the real thing? You be the judge. After my own sighting in '67, I know in my heart and soul that Cooper is most probably telling the truth. P.S. I'm sure we'd all like to see James Oberg's responses to this series. The discussion ought to be quite interesting. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ================= Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7a continued from 6 (part 1 of 3) ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's: "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by Jerry Cohen ================= How good is the evidence? . . . "Something is definitely happening and it's not hallucinations, hoaxes, misidentifications, etc." If one thoroughly examines Dr. McDonald's research, etc. performed in his lifetime, one will undoubtably find that the rigorous analysis I am about to present by McDonald, is generally characteristic of the majority of his life's work. If one examines Mr. Oberg's essay regarding Gordon Cooper, it is almost as if he were familiar with this case and had tried to imitate the presentation of Dr. McDonald. If one examines the two side by side, one can determine which scientist's case is more complete and compelling. I leave that up to the reader to accomplish on his/her own. "Oberg/Cooper.7ab&c" will reasonably demonstrate that Mr. Oberg unjustly accused McDonald of generally not researching his cases and caring about the facts. I believe you will also find there certainly was nothing that anyone might remotely call "secretive" in regards to his analysis of the Kirtland AFB case or his address to the American Association For The Advancement Of Science (AAAS) UFO Symposium, Boston, Dec. 27, 1969. James McDonald spelled it all out for the entire world, if they had been listening. = The accuracy of the following can be checked by consulting the sources provided, including your local libraries = Footnotes appear at end of O/C rebuttal.7c - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ============================== SEBAGO / STOKES / KIRTLAND AFB ============================== In "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3," I used 4 cases as examples of UFO history. I used them because I believe they were the types of cases that Dr. Hynek himself thought were impressive because he chose similar ones to illustrate his concerns about Project Blue Book to Colonel Sleeper. Additionally, you will notice that the two newspaper cases provided, apparently closely relate both in timing and description, to another case used by Dr. James E. McDonald when he illustrated some of the defects in the Condon Study to the AAAS (American Association For The Advancement Of Science), immediately in the wake of the Condon Study's negative pronouncements. The latter was brought to my attention by Val Germann, Columbus Mississippi, who, having a great interest in McDonald's life, has documented McDonald's drive to make scientists aware of the UFO problem, complete with Germann's own introspective comments concerning same. I didn't know this case existed until just recently. 1 I've already posted the first of the four, "SKY THING" (occurred in 1960). No one so far, has come up with a reasonable explanation. We have already seen that we've had approximately thirty seven years to figure out what it was, with no success. 2 The two newspaper cases were: "Sebago" RADAR/visual (11/7/57) and "James Stokes," (11/6/57). As I mentioned in "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3" the Sebago / Stokes cases were the first two articles I ever cut out of a newspaper, for "curiosity's" sake. The date appearing on the articles is partially blocked by old, browned-out tape, but I can see it says "Wednesday, November xxx, 1957" 3 The "Sebago" article became personal to me because I later discovered that a neighbor of mine had been dating one of the Sebago's crew members when it occurred. (As unbelievable as it sounds) Brief synopsis: Crewmen on the Coast Guard cutter Sebago, off the coast of Louisiana, reported visually seeing an object resembling "a brilliant planet with a high rate of speed." It was tracked on the vessel's radar screen for almost a 1/2 hour and flitted on and off the screen several times during that time period. My neighbor related the following after she had moved here, when I had once mentioned that particular case to her: She told me she was dating one of the crew members and had seen him the evening he returned from this incident on leave. He was called back again the next day for a debriefing in Washington. The following day, after that debriefing, he appeared for an interview on the Dave Garroway show. She saw him again briefly that night and/or the next day. They lost touch after that. ( . . if that person is reading this, please e-mail me. She would really like to say hello.) At the time she originally told me this, I wasn't sure I believed her because the coincidence, to me, was mind-boggling and I thought she might have been teasing me about my interest in UFOs. However, she has NEVER changed her story all these years, been extremely serious about it and recently explained that this is why she, too, has been interested in UFOs all this time and fully understood my curiosity regarding same. By the way, she is married and has her own, grown children at this point in her life. (If the skeptics don't believe this, that's O.K. You can totally discount it. This was "my" proof before I found "your" proof. There is a lot more to connect this story to reality than just her word for this. I'll explain this a little further on. Please read on, as I selected this group of cases for a reason.) The second article, I am fairly certain, appeared in the paper the same day. James Stokes was an engineer from the Air Force Missile Development Center at Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, New Mexico. The object claimed seen, appeared identical in both accounts. The proximity of the cases to each other, especially time-wise, and the "quality of the people seeing them," appeared well-above average. The Kirtland AFB case which follows those two, ties all of it together and will be self explanatory. 4 I apologize for the condition of the bottom of the Stokes article. These articles were the first I ever cut out and did not ever expect to be doing what I'm doing today or that they (the articles) would turn out to be as significant as I firmly believe they are. The following two articles were taken from: Newsday (Long Island newspaper) on Wednesday, November 6th (or 7th), 1957. I. CG Ship Sights Weird Object Off Louisiana Washington (AP) -- A brilliant mystery object was reported sighted yesterday in southern skies by a Coast Guard cutter, even as Air Force specialists investigated a flurry of earlier, similar reports. The Coast Guard cutter Sebago, cruising in the Gulf of Mexico about 200 miles south of Louisiana, radioed that an object resembling "a brilliant planet with a high rate of speed" was seen for about three seconds early yesterday. Coast Guard headquarters in New Orleans said the message did not report exactly who on board the cutter had seen the object. The Sebago's message said the object was tracked on the vessel's radar screen for 27 minutes and that, during that period, the object flitted on and off the screen several times. Sightings of strange objects have been reported from widely scattered sections of the United States since Sunday, most of them near secret military installations in the Southwest. The Air Force said that the radar network of the Air Defense Command is keeping watch -- so far with no results -- and that specially qualified investigators have been assigned to look into the reports. For several years the Air Force has checked all reports of unidentified flying objects. Investigators work under the Air Defense Command at Colorado Springs, Colo., and report to the Air Technical Intelligence Center. Judging from past findings, the chances are the Air Force will attribute the current sightings to natural phenomena or such ordinary man-made objects as aircraft. II. Flying "Something" Still Unidentified Lubbock, Tex. (AP) -- A missile engineer reported seeing a "brilliant colored egg-shaped object" which he said stalled autos in New Mexico yesterday. The Air Force started an investigation yesterday into similar reports in this and other areas. Witnesses say a mystery object skipped about the countryside here and near scientific military bases in New Mexico over the week end. The reported sightings startled citizens, peace officers and servicemen but apparently left no concrete trace. James Stokes, 45, an engineer from the Air Force Missile Development Center at Holloman Air Force Base, Alamogordo, N.M. told new director Terry Clark of station KALG, Alamogordo, that 10 autos were stopped on an isolated desert highway, U.S. 54, between White Sands Proving Grounds and Alamogordo yesterday. His description was similar to ones reporting a big ball of fire flitting about much of this West Texas area over the week end. A huge, oval object "nearly as bright as the sun" was reported seen at White Sands Proving Ground Sunday, hovering near bunkers used in the first A-bomb explosion. Witnesses said other strange lights were seen over other parts of Texas, near Chicago and in Virginia. Clark said the Air Force at Holloman gave him permission to use Stokes" story. He said Stokes told him occupants of cars saw a strange, unidentified object flying toward them from the northeast. He said his auto radio faded and died, then his engine stopped. He said, several other cars were also stalled. Looking up, he told Clark, "I saw a brilliant colored egg-shaped object making a shallow dive across the sky to the northeast. Then it turned and made a pass at the highway and crossed it not more than two miles ahead. Then it moved away toward White Sands Proving Grounds to the southwest. As it passed . . . I could feel a kind of heat wave, like radiation from a giant sun lamp. But there was no sound. It had no visible portholes and there was no vapor trail." "When I got back to my car and checked the engine, I found it intact but the battery was steaming. But the engine started with no difficulty. I called officials at the Air Force Development Center and notified them of the sighting." He said the object moved very rapidly and its surface looked like 'glowing mother of pearl.' " A spokesman at Reese Air Force Base here said yesterday a representative of the Air Defense Command had flown in from headquarters. J.C. This next appeared at the bottom of the same article. "New Orleans (UP) -- The U.S. Coast Guard cutter Sebago reported that it spotted a brilliant flying object in the sky this morning about 200 miles south of the mouth of the Mississippi River. The unidentified object was first sighted at 5:10 A.M., the Coast Guard said. Radar contact with the object was retained intermittently from 5:10 A.M. to 5:37 A.M. with the object visible to the naked eye for (old tape in the way) xxx beginning at 5:21 A.M. A radio report from the Sebago xxx xxx the Gulf of Mexico, said the object "resembled a brilliant xxxx" and was traveling at a high rate of speed." J.C. This is why I am pretty sure it was in the paper on the same day. I may be a day off. It is important to notice it was stated that * Air Defense Command was involved. * That statement is an indication that our Air Force has known about and dealt with UFOs for a fairly long period of time. (Again, this was 1957) Although you might think to yourself, "Perhaps some newspaper reporters made these up," as I mentioned, the next thoroughly researched case adds greatly to the credibility of the other two. When you read it, please note a similarity in object descriptions. Also, please note the date of the sightings and compare it with Sebago / Stokes above. As I mentioned, Kirtland was a Blue Book case included in the Condon Study which was additionally researched by Dr. James E. McDonald. 5 Below, is an excerpt taken from Dr. McDonald's address to the American Association For The Advancement Of Science (AAAS) UFO Symposium, Boston, Dec. 27, 1969. 6 In it, as Val Germann has aptly pointed out, McDonald takes Blue Book and the Condon Study to task for not following up on several cases which he felt should have obviously been examined further. McDonald was a meticulous scientist. If all of us were attentive to detail in life as Dr. McDonald was in the following analysis, the word incompetence would probably not exist in our dictionaries. Those that state otherwise concerning him, are most likely ignorant concerning his career and accomplishments. McDonald chastises the Condon Study for not looking for witnesses in the "Kirtland AFB case;" two of whom he, himself, was easily able to find and who's testimony was vital to those proceedings. He further chides the NAS (National Academy of Science) for placing (in his own words) "its weighty stamp on this dismal report without even a semblance of rigorous checking of its contents." was one of the examples given. If one reads it carefully, I am certain you will find, as a number of researchers already have, great substance to his allegations. It should be readily apparent to most, after reading it, that so many people would have been placed in a "bad light" from McDonald's report, that his presentation HAD to be totally ignored when it was brought to their attention. (i.e. specifically, section 3, para. 2 & 3) But the facts still stand, if one reads them with an open, honest mind, you will realize that this case (and probably others he had analyzed) should have rightfully been classified as an "unknown" or more precisely, a UFO... most probably, a craft of some sort. ======================= End: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7a Sebago / Stokes / Kirtland AFB (part 1 of 3) =======================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7c From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:25:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 23:24:58 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7c =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7c continued from 7b (part 3 of 3) ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's: "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by Jerry Cohen =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D CONCLUSION OF KIRTLAND CASE MCDONALD COMMENTS re: KIRTLAND & THE COLORADO STUDY MCDONALD'S CREDENTIALS HYNEK COMMENTS re: MENZEL AUTHOR'S SUMMATION (How this all relates to Gordon Cooper's claims) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I asked both men whether they alerted anyone else while the foregoing events were taking place. They both indicated that the object was of such unprecedented nature that it wasn't until it shot up into the overcast that they got on the phone to get the CAA Radar Approach Control (RAPCON) unit to look for a fast target to the east. Kaser recalled that a CPN-18 surveillance radar was in use at that RAPCON unit at that time, a point confirmed to me in subsequent correspondence with the present chief of the Albuquerque Airport Traffic Control Tower, Mr. Robert L. Behrens, who also provided other helpful information. Unfortunately, no one who was in the Albuquerque/Kirtland RAPCON unit in 1957 is now available, and the person whom Kaser thought was actually on the CPN-18 that night is now deceased. Thus I have only Kaser and Brink recollections of the radar-plotting of the unknown, plus the less than precise information in the Nov. 6, 1957 TWX to Bluebook. Capt. Shere did not, evidently, take the trouble to secure any information from radar personnel. As seen on the RAPCON CPN-18, the unknown target was still moving in an easterly direction when the alert call came from the tower. It then turned southward, and as Kaser recalled, moved south at very high speed, though nothing is said about speed in the Kirtland TWX of Nov. 6, 1957. It proceeded a number of miles south towards the vicinity of the Albuquerque Low Frequency Range Station, orbited there for a number of minutes, came back north to near Kirtland, took up a trail position about a half-mile behind an Air Force C-46 just then leaving Kirtland, and moved offscope with the C-46. The Nov. 8, 1957 report from Commander, 34th Air Div. to ADC and to the Air Technical Intelligence Command closed with the rather reasonable comment: "Sighting and descriptions conform to no known criteria for identification of UFOs." The follow-up report of Nov. 13, 1957, prepared by Air Intelligence personnel from Ent AFB, contains a number of relevant comments on the experience of the two witnesses (23 years of tower control work between them as of that date), and on their intelligence, closing with the remarks: "In the opinion of the interviewer, both sources (witnesses) are considered completely competent and reliable." 5. Critique of the Evaluation in the Condon Report: The Kirtland AFB case is a rather good (though not isolated) instance of the general point I feel obliged to make on the basis of my continuing check of the Condon Report: In it we have not been given anything superior to the generally casual and often incompetent level of case-analysis that marked Bluebook's handling of the UFO problem in past years. In the Bluebook files, this case is carried as "Possible Aircraft". Study of the 21-page case-file reveals that this is based solely on passing comment made by Capt. Shere in closing his summary letter of November 8: "The opinion of the preparing officer is that this object may possibly have been an unidentified aircraft, possibly confused by the runways at Kirtland AFB. The reasons for this opinion are: (a) The observers are considered competent and reliable sources, and in the opinion of this interviewer actually saw an object they could not identify. (b) The object was tracked on a radar scope by a competent operator. (c) The object does not meet identification criteria for any other phenomena." The stunning non sequitur of that final conclusion might serve as an epitome of 22 years of Air Force response to unexplainable objects in our airspace. But when one then turns to the Condon Report's analysis and evaluation, a Report that was identified to the public and the scientific community as the definitive study of UFOs, no visible improvement is found. Ignoring almost everything of interest in the case-file except that a lighted airborne object came down near Kirtland airfield and left, the Condon Report covers this whole intriguing case in two short paragraphs, cites the Air Force view, embellishes it a bit by speaking of the lost aircraft as "powerful" (presumably to account for its observed Mach 1 climb-out) and suggesting that it was "flying without flight plan" (this explains why it was wandering across runways and taxiways at night, in a rain, at an altitude of a few tens of feet), and the Report then closes off the case with a terse conclusion: "There seems to be no reason to doubt the accuracy of this analysis. Two telephone calls to the two principal witnesses would have confronted the Colorado investigators with emphatic testimony, supporting the contents (though not the conclusions) of the Bluebook file, and that would have rendered the suggested "powerful private aircraft" explanation untenable. By not contacting the witnesses and by overlooking most of the salient features of the reported observations, this UFO report has been left safely in the "explained" category where Bluebook put it. One has here a sample of the low scientific level of investigative and evaluative work that will be so apparent to any who take the trouble to study carefully and thoroughly the Condon Report on UFOs. AAAS members are urged to study it carefully for themselves and to decide whether it would be scientifically advisable to accept it as the final word on the 22-year-long puzzle of the UFO problem. I submit that it is most inadvisable. J.C. Once again, since this case was originally located in Blue Book files, included in the Condon Study, and was so thoroughly researched by a highly respected meteorologist, with yet additional information brought in by CAA witnesses who were still alive, its authenticity is beyond reproach. The amount of effort that McDonald put into his analysis should be obvious to anyone reading this. The additional material he personally brought to this case (and others) demonstrates that what was seen was indeed a "UFO." The witnesses' words "..had no wings, tail, or fuselage, was elongated in the vertical direction, and exhibited a somewhat egg-shaped form (Kaser). It appeared to be perhaps 15-20 ft in vertical dimension, about the size of an automobile on end, and had a single white light in its base." and McDonald's words "Both men were emphatic in stressing to me that _it in no way resembled an aircraft._" clearly demonstrate that whatever this was, it was definitely nothing the witnesses had ever seen before or since. Additionally, as mentioned, the date and place of this case are important as it occurred approximately 2 days * prior * to the Sebago/Stokes cases and, for reasons already stated, I am personally certain that "Sebago" was indeed a reality. Furthermore, "Stokes" was claimed in the same general location as the Kirtland case, within a close proximity of time. Since it (Kirtland) happened "prior" to those cases, it obviously wasn't stimulated by them. I therefore submit that the probability of "Sebago" & "Stokes" being exactly what they were originally represented as being, was extremely high. This is why I selected these particular events when compiling my brief history of UFOs. It is also important to consider all this in the context of Dr. Hynek's letter to Colonel Sleeper in 1968, which demonstrated, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the statistics touted in "Project Blue Book" were little more than a "sham." If you remember, Hynek called them a "travesty." As we said, no civilian scientist was closer to this data than Hynek. (consultant to Air Force UFO project for 20 years) 7 As far as Dr. McDonald himself is concerned, the only thing I can see that he was guilty of was of being a poor politician. In approaching the National Academy of Sciences by attacking them, instead of taking the slower route of trying to befriend some of them, he put himself in a position that was doomed to failure. ON McDONALD'S SINCERITY: Skeptics have said, a person who is insincere in his views on UFOs and that wants to "reap the whirlwind," so to speak, in the UFO field generally figures out a way to get to the media so they will pick up his bogus information and sell it for him. Dr. McDonald did not fit this profile. The people he was trying to convince were other scientists. It is obvious to this researcher that he was sincere in his beliefs. Walter Webb, who I mentioned in an earlier essay, said the following concerning a visit McDonald made to Hynek: "Fresh from a visit to Blue Book, an angry McDonald descended upon Hynek and pounded on his desk. Allen told me McDonald had accused him of sitting on the data all these years without letting the scientific community know about the impressive cases buried in Air Force files. Though Allen tried to explain the difficult position he was in, McDonald would have none of it. At the same time Hynek said he felt a great sense of relief because finally here was another scientist who actually took the UFO problem seriously." 8 As we had seen Hynek had done, McDonald, too, was putting his career on the line. If you are wondering what McDonald's credentials were at the time, I offer both the following quote from Val Germann regarding McDonald's criticism of the scientific community in regards to the UFO topic, and his listing of McDonald's credentials. 9 "....McDonald was a scourge of the complacent ufologists of his day. He blasted the Air Force, Hynek, Menzel, Condon and anyone else doing a second-rate job in the UFO arena. He was a first- rate intellect and a world- famous atmospheric scientist, this last very important since UFOs are mainly reported in the atmosphere, not in outer space. This put the astronomers (Hynek & Menzel) on the spot when they tried to challenge McDonald. You see, he was *in* his field, *they* were *not*. This would often cause Menzel acute embarrassment." Biographical Information: Dr. James E. McDonald as of July 1968 Born: Duluth, Minnesota, May 7, 1920. B.A., Chemistry, University of Omaha, 1942. M.A., Meteorology, M.I.T., 1945. Ph.D., Physics, Iowa State University, 1951. U.S. Navy, Intelligence & aerology, 1942-45. Instructor, Physics, Iowa State University, 1946-49. Assistant Professor, Physics, Iowa State University, 1950-53. Research Physicist, Cloud Physics, Univ. of Chicago, 1953-54. Associate Prof., Physics, Univ. of Arizona, 1954-56. Full Professor,, Physics, Univ. of Arizona, 1956-57. Senior Physicist, Inst. of Atmospheric Studies, 1958 - present. Member, Weather Modification Panel, NAS, 1965 - present. Member, Navy Stormfury Advisory Panel, 1966 - present. Member, NSF Weather Modification Panel, 1967 - present. Member, AAAS, American Meteorological Society, Sigma Xi, American Geophysical Society, American Society of University Professors. Married, Six Children. Is Germann's comment accurate regarding Menzel & Hynek? Here is a quote from Hynek, from his own book "The UFO Experience:" 10 " ... Harvard astronomy professor Dr. Menzel, who took a seemingly compulsive interest in the flying saucer question, even though this subject was far removed from his scientific field. He loudly proclaimed UFOs were nonsense and particularly championed the "mirage theory" of flying saucers. He ascribed properties to mirages, and mirage properties to UFOs, which have since been shown to be completely untenable, even by the air force itself." 11 J.C. This is not to infer anything disparaging concerning Dr. Menzel's other scientific endeavors which I am sure, as per his reputation, were highly respected. However, when it came to pronouncements concerning UFOs, his comments left much to be desired. Addendum: Other scientists have leaned on Menzel's reputation, taking his stance in regard to UFOs without closely examining all available case facts in some of them. With cases on record, such as those mentioned herein, it is not unreasonable for people to have begun wondering what was in the particular craft seen. Cases revealed by FOIA requests and lawsuits have proven that various branches of our government have communicated both internally and amongst each other regarding cases such as the previously mentioned 1975 SAC base visitations. Some of those communications described those 1975 visitations in which craft of some type apparently hovered over atomic missile silos and storage areas of several SAC bases, and could not be apprehended. 12 This obviously indicates intelligent guidance of some sort and our inability to deal with it. (You really can't blame our Air Force for not telling us. Anyone remember the Orsen Wells "War of the Worlds" broadcast? If that was any general indication of how people might react to an announcement of this sort, it most probably is not too advisable to scream this too loudly or incessantly to everyone.) Also briefly discussed in a prior post, the Belgium Air Force 1989/90 NATO cases documented a craft which played a cat & mouse game with F-16s for *seventy five* minutes and *forty G* accelerations which would have killed a human pilot, recorded on gun cameras and observed by "a great number of witnesses, among them *twenty* national policemen who saw both the object and the F-16s." Prior to scrambling the F-16s, "headquarters had determined to do some very precise studies during the next *fifty five* minutes to eliminate the possibility of prosaic explanations for the radar images. Excellent atmospheric conditions prevailed, and there was no possibility of false echoes due to temperature inversions." 13 The cases detailed herein certainly lend credence to the Belgium incident(s). Since Air Force claims that most UFOs have been explained were "blown away" by Hynek's 1972 book, cases such as these are remarkable, undeniable data to be added to the entire picture before us. Furthermore, (and I am not happy saying this) with military cases such as these on record, it certainly would behoove the human race to take a really close look at "animal mutilation cases" and claimed "abduction" cases. Although a great percentage of the abduction claims most certainly could be hoaxes or psychological aberrations, and a percentage of the "mutilation" cases may be attributed to natural predators, etc., the data displayed herein demonstrates it most certainly is not impossible there may be a core of them that exists that could be the "real" thing. We certainly have a core of "real UFO" cases. To not examine these other type cases carefully would be to ignore what may very well be related, documented evidence that has been accumulating over the years and might well be the most foolish thing mankind has ever done. To have main-stream scientists scoffing at these without examining them "thoroughly," is obviously ill-advised. "Some" of the people reporting these things may not be as crazy as certain scientists and newscasters, who are unaware of the quality and quantity of this documentation, would have us believe. One final question to all skeptics who have read these essays to this point thus far: "Are you honestly all as positive as you were before reading them, that Gordon Cooper was not telling the truth about what he saw?" Remember, the date of Cooper's claimed landing at Edwards AFB was May 3rd, 1957 (as per Mr. Oberg), six months prior to the Kirtland case which occurred November 4th of the same year. Is it just possible that the following quote attributed to Dr. Hynek by Mr. Oberg, may have been a totally valid criticism of the BBC's "The Case of the UFOs"? Oberg =B6 21 In late 1982, Dr. J. Allen Hynek blasted the British Broadcasting Corporation for its production of "The Case of the UFOs" (aired in the US on NOVA in October 1982) for avoiding any mention of Gordon Cooper's UFO experiences, which Hynek clearly portrayed as genuine and unsolvable. And, considering the information Hynek had appraised us regarding Project Blue Book, some of the excellent overlooked cases therein and the statistical "travesty" perpetrated by that project, is it really so difficult for us to understand why Dr. James McDonald did not accept the Air Force's "weather balloon" explanation (Oberg =B6 50) for the 1957 Edwards AFB case? Below is a portion of the argument given to convince us of the case against Cooper's Edwards AFB UFO claim and McDonald. Oberg =B6 51 But oddly enough, even though the original sighting was published in numerous newspapers (and made national wire services), the explanation was written up in no newspaper that I have been able to find. Nor did the pro- UFO McDonald (who hardly could have failed to be aware of it, since he had been sent the same material by Gettys) mention it before the congressional committee. Of course, the explanation "weather balloon" elicits snickers of disbelief from anybody familiar with how the term was over-used for other cases. . . . . Respectfully, Mr. Oberg, it certainly does. Bibliography 1 germannvh@aol.com (Germannvh) . alt.paranet.ufo . "Yet More McDonald -- 1/6" . 21 Dec 1995 2 posted on Usenet newsgroup "alt.paranet.ufo" : also to be posted on WWW TUFOP (The Ultimate UFO Page) at http://www.serve.com/tufop/tu00002.html 3 Newsday, (L.I. Newspaper) . Wednesday 11/6/57 . "CG Ship Sights Weird Object Off Louisiana" : Newsday, (L.I. Newspaper) . Wednesday 11/6/57 . "Flying Something Still Unidentified" 4 From an address given by McDonald, James E., Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, to the American Association For The Advancement Of Science (AAAS) at Sheraton Plaza Ballroom, Arizona 12/27/69 . 134th Meeting, Symposium, Unidentified Flying Objects . Subject: Science in Default; 22 years 5 Ibid #4 : also, case # 19-X, 361-B located in Condon, Edward U. "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects", 1/8/69 . New York Times Book 6 Ibid #2 . Germann, Val . McDonald, Dr. James E. . address to the AAAS UFO Symposium, Boston, Dec. 27, 1969. 7 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972, appendix 4 (Excerpt of a Letter from J. Allen Hynek to Colonel Raymond S. Sleeper) : Cohen, R.J., WITH RESPECT TO DR. HYNEK.3 - "The UFO Experience" & "Blue Book" . NET POST TUFOP : http://www.serve.com/tufop/tu00005.html 8 Webb, Walter N . (Charles Hayden Planetarium, Boston) . Center for UFO Studies "International Reporter" 1/93 . "Allen Hynek as I Knew Him". p9 "The Later Years" . col. 1. last paragraph & col 2 9 Germann, Val . germannvh@aol.com (Germannvh) . "Yet More McDonald -- 1/6" . alt.paranet.ufo . 12/21/95 . "Dr. James E. McDonald -- What Might Have Been - 1/6" 10 Hynek, J. Allen "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company 1972 . Chapt. 11 "The Air Force and the UFO - Pages from Blue Book" . paragraph 18 11 Menkello, F. G. "Quantitative Aspects of Mirages," Report No. 6112, Menkello is a first lieutenant, USAF, Environmental Technical Applications Center. "It is easy to show that the 'air lenses' and 'strong inversions' postulated by Gordon and Menzel, among others, would need temperatures of several thousand degrees Kelvin in order to cause the mirages attributed to them." 12 Newsday (Long Island newspaper) . Fri 1/19/79 . UFOs Seen at Air Bases in 1975 : Fawcett, L. & Greenwood, B. "The UFO Cover- up" Simon & Schuster Fireside Book 1992 : Gersten, Peter (FOIA lawyer) . Frontiers of Science . May/June 1981 . "What the U.S. Government Knows About Unidentified Flying Objects" 13 CUFOS Journal (International UFO Reporter) . July/Aug 1990 . "Remarkable military encounter in Belgium" : also detailed in an "Unsolved Mysteries" television episode narrated by Robert Stack complete with Belgium military gun camera documentation and statements by Belgium Air Force personnel and police. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7c McDonald comments re: Kirtland & the Colorado Study Hynek comments re: Menzel (part 3 of 3) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Respectfully submitted, Jerry Cohen E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 6 Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7b From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:25:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 23:23:03 -0500 Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7b ================= Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7b continued from 7a (part 2 of 3) ---------------------------------- A researcher's response to James Oberg's: "IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" by Jerry Cohen ================= ============================================ MCDONALD ANALYSIS re: THE KIRTLAND AFB CASE ============================================ American Association For The Advancement Of Science, 134th Meeting. Subject: Science in Default; 22 Years of Inadequate UFO Investigations Author: James E. McDonald, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences From: The University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona, 85721 Time: 9:00 a.m., December 27, 1969 Place: Sheraton Plaza Ballroom, Boston Program: General Symposium, Unidentified Flying Objects Convention Address: Sheraton Plaza Hotel RELEASE TIME A.M, December 28 Case 4. Kirtland AFB, November 4, 1957 -- Brief summary: Two CAA control tower operators observe a lighted * egg-shaped object * descend to and cross obliquely the runway area at Kirtland AFB (Albuquerque), hover near the ground for tens of seconds, then climb at unprecedented speed into the overcast. On radar, it was then followed south some miles, where it orbited a number of minutes before returning to the airfield to follow an Air Force aircraft outbound from Kirtland. (J.C. asterisks are mine) "1. Introduction: This case, discussed in the Condon Report on p. 141, is an example of a UFO report which had lain in Bluebook files for years, not known to anyone outside of Air Force circles. Immediately upon reading it, I became quite curious about it; more candidly, I became quite suspicious about it. For, as you will note on reading it for yourself, it purports to explain an incident in terms of an hypothesis with some glaringly improbable assumptions, and makes a key assertion that is hard to regard as factual. Let me quote from the first descriptive paragraph: "Observers in the CAA (now FAA) control tower saw an unidentified dark object with a white light underneath, about the 'shape of an automobile on end', that crossed the field at about 1500 ft and circled as if to come in for a landing on the E-W runway. This unidentified object appeared to reverse direction at low altitude, while out of sight of the observers behind some buildings, and climbed suddenly to about 200-300 ft., heading away from the field on a 120 deg. course. Then it went into a steep climb and disappeared into the overcast." The Condon Report next notes that; "The Air Force view is that this UFO was a small, powerful private aircraft, flying without flight plan, that became confused and attempted a landing at the wrong airport. The pilot apparently realized his error when he saw a brightly-lit restricted area, which was at the point where the object reversed direction..." The Report next remarks very briefly that the radar blip from this object was described by the operator as a "perfectly normal aircraft return", that the radar tract "showed no characteristics that would have been beyond the capabilities of the more powerful private aircraft available at the time," and the conclusion arrived at in the Condon Report, without further discussion, is that; "There seems to be no reason to doubt the accuracy of this analysis." 2. Some Suspect Features of the Condon Report's Explanation: It seemed to me that there were several reasons "to doubt the accuracy of this analysis." First, let me point out that the first line or two of the account in the Condon Report contains information that the incident took place with "light rain over the airfield", late in the evening (2245-2305 MST), which I found to be correct, on checking meteorological records. Thus the reader is asked to accept the picture of a pilot coming into an unfamiliar airfield at night and under rain conditions, and doing a 180 deg. return at so low an altitude that it could subsequently climb suddenly to about 200-300 ft; and we are asked to accept the picture of this highly hazardous low-altitude nighttime turn being executed so sharply that it occurred "while out of sight of the observers behind some buildings." Now these are not casual bystanders doing the observing, but CAA controllers in a tower designed and located to afford full view of all aircraft operations occurring in or near its airfield. Hence my reaction to all of this was a reaction of doubt. Pilots don't live too long who execute strange and dangerous maneuvers of the type implied in this explanation. And CAA towers are not located in such a manner that "buildings" obscure so large a block of airfield-airspace as to permit aircraft to do 180 deg. turns while hidden from tower view behind them (at night, in a rain!). 3. Search for the Principal Witnesses: The foregoing points put such strong a priori doubt upon the "private aircraft" explanation advanced in the Condon Report that I began an independent check on this case, just as I have been checking several dozen other Condon Report cases in the months since publication of the Report. Here, as in all other cases in the Report, there are no witness-names given to facilitate independent check, but by beginning my inquiries through the FAA, I soon got in touch with the two CAA tower observers, both of whom are still with FAA, one in Oklahoma, one in California. Concurrently, I initiated a number of inquiries concerning the existence of any structures back in 1957 that could have hidden an aircraft from tower view in the manner suggested by the Report. What I ultimately learned constitutes only one example of many that back up the statement I have been making recently to many professional groups: The National Academy of Sciences is going to be in a most awkward position when the full picture of the inadequacies of the Condon Report is recognized; for I believe it will become all too obvious that the Academy placed its weighty stamp on this dismal report without even a semblance of rigorous checking of its contents. The two tower controllers, R. M. Kaser and E. G. Brink, with whom I have had a total of five telephone interviews in the course of clarifying the case, explained to me that the object was so unlike an aircraft and exhibited performance characteristics so unlike those of any aircraft flying then or now that the "private aircraft" explanation was quite amusing. Neither had heard of the Air Force explanation, neither had heard of the Condon Project concurrence therein, and, most disturbing of all, neither had ever heard of the Condon Project: _No one on the Condon Project ever contacted these two men!_ A half-million-dollar Project, a Report filled with expensive trivia and matters shedding essentially no light on the heart of the UFO puzzle, and no Project investigator even bothers to hunt down the two key witnesses in this case, so casually closed by easy acceptance of the Bluebook "aircraft" explanation. Failure to locate those two men as part of the investigation of this case is all the more difficult to understand because CAA tower operators involved as witnesses of a UFO incident were actually on duty would seem to constitute just the type of witnesses one should most earnestly seek out in attempts to clarify the UFO puzzle. In various sections of the Condon Report, witness-shortcomings (lack of experience, lack of familiarity with observing things in the sky, basic lack of credibility, etc.) are lamented, yet here, where the backgrounds of the witnesses and the observing circumstances are highly favorable to getting reliable testimony, the Colorado group did not bother to locate the witnesses. (This is not an isolated example. Even in cases which were conceded to be Unexplained, such as the June 23, 1955 Mohawk Airlines multiple-witness sighting near Utica, N.Y. [p. 143 in Report], or the Jackson, Alabama, November 14, 1956 airline case, both conceded to be unexplained, I found on interviewing key witnesses as part of my cross-check on the Condon Report, that no one from Colorado had ever talked to the witnesses. In still other important instances, only a fraction of the available witnesses were queried in preparing the Condon Report. Suggestions that the Report was based on intensive investigatory work simply are not correct.) 4. Information Gained from Witness-Interviews: When I contacted Kaser and Brink, they told me I was the first person to query them on the case since their interrogation by an Air Force captain from Colorado Springs, who had come to interview them at Kirtland just after the incident. Subsequently, I secured the Bluebook case-file on this sighting, and ascertained that a Capt. Patrick O. Shere, from Ent AFB did the interrogation on Nov. 8, 1957, just four days after the sighting. The accounts I secured in 1969 from Kaser and Brink matched impressively the information I found in Shere's 1957 report in the Bluebook case-file. There were a few recollective discrepancies of distance or time estimates in the witness accounts given in 1969, as compared with their 1957 statements to the Air Force, but the agreements were far more significant than the small number of mismatches. In contrast to the somewhat vague impressions I gained (and other readers would surely also gain) from reading the Condon Report version, here is what is in the Bluebook case-file and what they told me directly. The object came down in a rather steep dive at the east end of Runway 26, left the flight line, crossed runways, taxiways and unpaved areas at about a 30-degree angle, and proceeded southwestward towards the CAA tower at an altitude they estimated at a few tens of feet above the ground. Quickly getting 7 power binoculars on it, they established that it had no wings, tail, or fuselage, was elongated in the vertical direction, and exhibited a somewhat egg-shaped form (Kaser). It appeared to be perhaps 15-20 ft in vertical dimension, about the size of an automobile on end, and had a single white light in its base. Both men were emphatic in stressing to me that _it in no way resembled an aircraft._ It came towards them until it reached a B-58 service pad near the northeast corner of Area D (Drumhead Area, a restricted area lying south of the E-W runway at Kirtland). That spot lay about 3000 ft ENE of the tower, near an old machine-gun calibration bunker still present at Kirtland AFB. There it proceeded to stop completely, hover just above the ground _in full view_ for a time that Kaser estimated at about 20 seconds, that Brink suggested to me was more like a minute, and that the contemporary Air Force interrogation implied as being rather more than a minute. Next they said it started moving again, still at very low altitude, still at modest speed, until it-again reached the eastern boundary of the field. At that point, the object climbed at an extremely rapid rate (which Kaser said was far faster than that of such modern jets as the T-38). The Bluebook report expresses the witness' estimate of the climb rate as 45,000 ft/min., which is almost certainly a too-literal conversion from Mach 1. My phone-interview notes include a quote of Brink's statement to me that, "There was no doubt in my mind that no aircraft I knew of then, or ever operating since then, would compare with it." Both men were emphatic in stating to me that at no time was this object hidden by any buildings. I confirmed through the Albuquerque FAA office that Area D has never had anything but chain-link fence around it, and that no buildings other than scattered one-story metal buildings ever existed either inside or outside Area D in that sector. The bunker is only about 15-20 feet high, judging from my own recent observations and photos of it from the air. The Bluebook interrogation report contains no statements hinting that the object was ever hidden from view by any structures (although the Bluebook file contains the usual number of internally inconsistent and confusingly presented details). ============================== End: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.7b McDonald analysis re: the Kirtland AFB case (part 2 of 3) ==============================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Re: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3 From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:26:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 02:08:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3 >Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:13:03 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> >Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3 >============== >Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.3 >continued from 2 ---------------------------------- >A researcher's response to James Oberg's: >"IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs" >by Jerry Cohen ============== ________Major snip here!!______________________ >"THANK YOU DR. HYNEK FOR GIVING US BACK OUR SANITY AND RESPECT >WHEN OTHERS, WHO ARE IGNORANT OF THE SIMPLEST HISTORY REGARDING >THE UFO TOPIC, HAVE MADE PRONOUNCEMENTS CONCERNING SAME, BUT ABOUT >WHICH 'THEY' HAVE EXTREMELY MINUTE KNOWLEDGE. >YOU HAD COURAGE WHERE OTHERS HAD FEAR .. PLACED SCIENCE FIRST WHEN >OTHERS CHOSE POLITICS. >"SOME" OF US HAVE SEEN EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE REPORTED AND OUR >REPORTS WERE ACCURATE AND HONESTLY GIVEN. AS YOU DISCOVERED, THEY >WERE NOT MISINTERPRETATIONS OF ANY NATURAL KNOWN PHENOMENA, NOR >DRAWN FROM ANY PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS STEMMING FROM US AND... >THEY (the reports) CERTAINLY DESERVE TO BE STUDIED IN DEPTH IN A >PROPER, SCIENTIFIC MANNER. WE ARE POSITIVE THAT FURTHER STUDY OF >UFOs WILL YIELD DISCOVERIES THAT MAN HAS ONLY HITHERTO IMAGINED. >THANK YOU FOR YOUR FAITH IN US AS INTELLIGENT, OBSERVANT HUMAN >BEINGS. THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THE COURAGE TO STAND FAST IN WHAT >WE HAVE REPORTED. ONE DAY THE WORLD WILL REALIZE WE SAW EXACTLY >WHAT WE CLAIMED AND WE WILL BE TOTALLY VINDICATED. In my opinion, this great piece of writing should be framed for posterity. For all those singular people who have had some kind of experiences with or because of something beyond our mundane world, from the experiencers to the observers, that there was indeed something that went bump in our otherwise ordinary lives. How we perceived what we experienced, how we told our tales, and how we picked up our lives after those events, (or not), all says that something significant has happened. It doesn't matter that there are believers, non-believers and so on. The alien presence is certainly a factor above our miniscule reach as a species. They know exactly what is going on. They do not get fooled easily. There will be the day when all of humanity will have to reconcile itself for the history of deceit and denials in the face of so many honestly motivated experiencers. I had all kinds of experiences that I can remember. I did this and that. And, how ever you or anyone wants to make of it what you will, that is up to you. All I can say is that I tried to explain to whomever would listen. Nothing more, nothing less. Now I ask you, where do we go from here? Must we just keep digging until the rest of the world wakes up to our cry of 'BIMP'? Then what? Will the world change so much after the recognition of true facts about everything? Take care for now, Cathy Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Interesing slant on Hale-Bopp/ odd behavior From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 00:32:19 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 02:06:57 -0500 Subject: Interesing slant on Hale-Bopp/ odd behavior Subject: Hale-bopp/ odd behavior Sent: 2/6/97 8:33 PM Received: 2/7/97 12:14 AM From: esquire@nwlink.com To: pparri@republic.net Read your stuff on hale-bopp. Precise clear and to the point. When three people come up with the same stuff or close; this indicates that there is a high degree of truth to it. Hale-bopp because of battles with its lesser companion probably will spin on a irregular path just like a bola. The connection being the magnetic fields between the two bodies as well as gravitational pull generated by mass and density. This will cause it to behave in an irregular manner having everybody scratching their heads wondering what it is going to do next. The more unstable the path the greater opportunity for gravitational as well as magnetic deflection from present course. Harold
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 04:15:38 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:57:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education > Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:51:53 -0700 > Thank you for taking the time to give me this information. I > like to get information from the horses mouth when possible. Julie, How correct you are ! What comes from the horse's mouth is much better than anything that might spew out the other end! <g> Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:53:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:58:44 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:24:06 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >>From John Powell: >> But she doesn't have to come forward _publically_. >Her family doesn't want her involved in any way. They didn't want her >talking to Budd Hopkins, either. If she came forward privately...talking >to new people, even with promises of anonymity, I can understand that >she'd feel exposed. And her family, for whatever reason, would be >outraged. Who is this "her family" that would be outraged? Husband, father, mother? Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Anonymous BUFORA-related Scuzz From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 23:09:03 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:55:13 -0500 Subject: Anonymous BUFORA-related Scuzz UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > I received the following this evening - I've > no idea from whence it came, but it sure > made me grin some.....apparently written by > someone in the UK. > ebk > ____________________________________________ > From: anon@anon.com > Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:26:58 -0600 (CST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: BUFORA BLOWS IT! > In what some outsiders have called a 'sad move' and others simply > suicidal, Philip Mantle has been made Press Officer for the British UFO > Research Association (BUFORA). After selling photographs which weren't his > to a picture library, using BUFORA as a vehicle for the promotion of the > Santilli Alien Video, and making BUFORA a figure of derision everywhere, > BUFORA Council decided that the best thing they could do was promote Mr > Mantle to Press Officer, where he could do no further damage to the > Association. [snip] > He then sniggered loudly, spluttered 'Not!' and went back to his > copy of 'Classic Saucer'. Dear Errol, This brought a smile to my face also. Grossly inaccurate as always but funny nonetheless. What about all those who said I'd been fired by BUFORA and was about to fired by MUFON also. Where are they now ? Still skulking in dark corners like mister anonymous. We should pity them really. ATB, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:53:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:59:49 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 21:24:06 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >>From John Powell: >> But she doesn't have to come forward _publically_. >Her family doesn't want her involved in any way. They didn't want her >talking to Budd Hopkins, either. If she came forward privately...talking >to new people, even with promises of anonymity, I can understand that >she'd feel exposed. And her family, for whatever reason, would be >outraged. How would her family know if she came 'forward' privately? Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 The FOIA Process - Is it in shambles? From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:48:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:56:20 -0500 Subject: The FOIA Process - Is it in shambles? In response to a 1991 FOIA request to the Justice Department, in 1996, a component within the Justice Department released a redacted version of the document in my request. Whilst, another component within the Justice Department withheld their release. As a matter of test, I filed an appeal for the release of the same records, already released to me by another component of the Justice Department. A letter dated Feb. 4, 1997, signed by Richard L. Huff, Co-Director, Office of Information and Privacy - Justice Department, whilst responds to my appeal petition on the IDA's decision - casts more confusion on the case; "Dear Dr. Victorian You appealed to the office of Information and Privacy on your FOIA request for access to a 1976 "Report on Inquiry into CIA Related Electronic Surveillance Activities". Although the Office of Intelligence Policy Review released a redacted version of this report to you, the document originated in the Criminal Division where it was written in response to allegations of wrongdoing by the Central Intelligence Agency and Nationa Security Agency. After careful consideration of your appeal, I have decided to affirm the intial action in this case. The redacted information you seek is classified and I am affirming the denial of access to it on the basis of 5 USC552 (b)(1). This material is being referred to the Deaprtment Review Committee for its review and determination under Executive Order 12958. You will be notified if the Committee's final decision results in the declassification of any information. Judicial review of my decision on this appeal is available to you in the US District Court for the District of Columbia, which is where the material you seek is located" Therefore, I am currently in possession of a document which its redated version was considered declassified by one component, and yet overall, remains classified by the Justice Department. Earlier on last year after a lengthy conversation with Mr. Steven Garfinkel, Director of the Information Security Oversight Office, wherein several points of mutual concern were raised with regard to the current FOIA's modus operandi, I was encouraged by Steven to write a report to Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who chaired the Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy. In response to my report, Sheryl Walter, the General Counsel of the above Commssion, whilst sharing the same concerns raised in my report, wrote; "Thank you for your June 4 letter to Senator Moynihan in his capacity as Chairman of the Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy. Your letter has been referred to me for action in my capacity as General Counsel for the Commission. The issues you raise about FOIA processing problems in various US government agencies are serious ones to which this Commission is devoting significant time and investigastion. As you may know from your conversation with Mr. Garfinkel, the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office, the Commission last month held a public roundtable attended by over 150 members of the public and government officials involved in classification and declassification policy, at which concerns similar to yours were aired. In particular, your points about training, agency responsiveness, and the effectiveness of the appeals process are ones at which we are taking an especially close look. The Commission will be issuing its report to Congress and to the President sometimes early in 1997, and I expect that the issues you raise will be addressed in it. Thank you for your interest in the Commission's work and your most helpful perspectives on the FOIA process" I look forward to the Commission's report - yet, will not hold my breath. This was not the first time where I was asked to send a report to a US Government Deaprtment or Agency. Legislations would not alter atitudes or individual interpretation of these legislations by decison makers, respondent to public FOIA requests. In the meantime, the requesters just have to cope with the best they can. Unsolicited information suggest that despite the apparent softening up in the release of information with lower grade classification - information with higher classification levels would be subjected to even more stringent review measures prior to their release. Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 10:13:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 10:26:40 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again John Powell asks, about Janet Kimball, one of the supposed witnesses in the Linda case: > Who is this "her family" that would be outraged [if she came forward]? > Husband, father, mother? Primarily her son. She lives with him, and currently he seems to be preventing access to her. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:47:08 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:57:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 04:15:38 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education > > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Stanton T. Friedman's Education > > Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:51:53 -0700 > > Thank you for taking the time to give me this information. I > > like to get information from the horses mouth when possible. > Julie, > How correct you are ! What comes from the horse's mouth is > much better than anything that might spew out the other end! <g> > Rebecca You have a good point. :-) There is so much horse puckie flying around out there it is hard to get through it sometimes without some of it sticking to you. ;-) (that is a wink) Is this Rebecca S. ? If it is I tried to send you e-mail and it would not go through to AOL.. Julie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Re: Copyright & 'Fair Use' From: Aaron Warner <mulder@octonline.com> Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:47:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:44:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Copyright & 'Fair Use' Hi All, I found this file on my computer about copyrights. Behold! A section on fair use! Just what were talking about. Here's what it said: From: 10 Big Myths about copyright explained By : Brad Templeton 4) "My posting was just fair use!" See other notes on fair use for a detailed answer, but bear the following in mind: The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. Are you reproducing an article from the New York Times because you needed to in order to criticise the quality of the New York Times, or because you couldn't find time to write your own story, or didn't want your readers to have to pay to log onto the online services with the story or buy a copy of the paper? The former is probably fair use, the latter probably aren't. Fair use is almost always a short excerpt and almost always attributed. (One should not use more of the work than is necessary to make the commentary.) It should not harm the commercial value of the work (which is another reason why reproduction of the entire work is generally forbidden.) Note that most inclusion of text in Usenet followups is for commentary and reply, and it doesn't damage the commercial value of the original posting (if it has any) and as such it is fair use. Fair use isn't an exact doctrine, either. The court decides if the right to comment overrides the copyright on an indidvidual basis in each case. There have been cases that go beyond the bounds of what I say above, but in general they don't apply to the typical net misclaim of fair use. It's a risky defence to attempt. END----------------------------------------------------------------------- Regards, Aaron Warner E-Mail: mulder@octonline.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:50:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:29:03 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Yet again the Linda case, subheading Janet Kimball, the supposed witness who spoke to Budd Hopkins, but will not come forward again, even privately. John Powell asks: > How would her family know if she came 'forward' privately? Lots of assumptions here. One is that she wants to come forward, and is being restrained against her will, somehow, by her family. Another is that she'd go behind her family's back. From what I hear, she has a relationship with them. That is, they talk about things. And the family, particularly her son, has influenced her, or made her anxious not to displease them. Two things, though. I'm as anxious to talk to her as anyone else checking on the case would be. And while I have her phone number, I've agreed not to call her, at Budd's request. He didn't even mean to give me the number...long story, but I have it, and I have to honor his wish. I think <he> should call and put the matter to her forcefully. Whether he feels the same might be another question. Second, as I said before, we're making a mistake if we assume she feels the same responsibility to UFO research that some of us do. She feels she's done her part. If anything would influence her, my guess would be this: She'd have to see Budd strongly attacked on TV, with specific reference to his failure to produce the key witnesses. Then she might feel some personal interest in restoring his credibility. Anyone want to arrange that? <grinning, but I'm also serious....> Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Fri, 07 Feb 97 13:24:57 cst Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:30:25 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Greg Sandow wrote: >Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 10:13:52 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >John Powell asks, about Janet Kimball, one of the supposed >witnesses in the Linda case: >>Who is this "her family" that would be outraged [if she >>came forward]? Husband, father, mother? >Primarily her son. She lives with him, and currently he seems >to be preventing access to her. Hi Greg, It's this claim of "preventing access" that I find to be troubling -- and frankly, unbelievable. This woman (assuming the tale is true) was independent-minded enough to seek out Budd Hopkins on her own initiative, yet so submissive that her son can control whom she speaks with. In my experience, this purported scenario indicates falsehood -- just as the host of other "unavailable" eyewitnesses does. Remember, it's the claim that this was an eyewitnessed abduction that made the Linda case so significant. How can we describe this as an eyewitnessed abduction if none of the purported eyewitnesses are even identified? While you may believe Hopkins is being totally honest, doesn't this lack of named witnesses (and the assorted excuses concerning why *all* of them are either "unavailable" -- or in the case of Perez de Cuellar, flatly denied) strain your credulity just a bit? Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Launch Will Create a Radio Telescope Larger than From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:50:02 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:31:48 -0500 Subject: Launch Will Create a Radio Telescope Larger than Donald Savage Headquarters, Washington, DC February 7, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1727) Mary Hardin Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) David Finley National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro, NM (Phone: 505/835-7302) RELEASE: 97-24 LAUNCH WILL CREATE A RADIO TELESCOPE LARGER THAN EARTH NASA and the National Radio Astronomy Observatory are joining with an international consortium of space agencies to support the launch of a Japanese satellite next week that will create the largest astronomical "instrument" ever built -- a radio telescope more than two-and-a-half times the diameter of the Earth that will give astronomers their sharpest view yet of the universe. The launch of the Very Long Baseline Interferometry (VLBI) Space Observatory Program (VSOP) satellite by Japan's Institute of Space and Astronautical Science (ISAS) is scheduled for Feb. 10 at 11:50 p.m. EST (1:50 p.m. Feb. 11, Japan time.) The satellite is part of an international collaboration led by ISAS and backed by Japan's National Astronomical Observatory; NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA; the National Science Foundation's National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO), Socorro, NM; the Canadian Space Agency; the Australia Telescope National Facility; the European VLBI Network and the Joint Institute for Very Long Baseline Interferometry in Europe. Very long baseline interferometry is a technique used by radio astronomers to electronically link widely separated radio telescopes together so they work as if they were a single instrument with extraordinarily sharp "vision," or resolving power. The wider the distance between telescopes, the greater the resolving power. By taking this technique into space for the first time, astronomers will approximately triple the resolving power previously available with only ground-based telescopes. The satellite system will have resolving power almost 1,000 times greater than the Hubble Space Telescope at optical wavelengths. The satellite's resolving power is equivalent to being able to see a grain of rice in Tokyo from Los Angeles. "Using space VLBI, we can probe the cores of quasars and active galaxies, believed to be powered by super massive black holes," said Dr. Robert Preston, project scientist for the U.S. Space Very Long Baseline Interferometry project at JPL. "Observations of cosmic masers -- naturally-occurring microwave radio amplifiers -- will tell us new things about the process of star formation and activity in the heart of other galaxies." "By the 1980s, radio astronomers were observing the universe with assemblages of radio telescopes whose resolving power was limited only by the size of the Earth. Now, through a magnificent international effort, we will be able to break this barrier and see fine details of celestial objects that are beyond the reach of a purely ground-based telescope array. We anticipate a rich harvest of new scientific knowledge from VSOP," said Dr. Paul Vanden Bout, Director of NRAO. In the first weeks after launch, scientists and engineers will "test the deployment of the reflecting mesh telescope in orbit, the wide-band data link from the satellite to the ground, the performance of the low noise amplifiers in orbit, and the high-precision orbit determination and attitude control necessary for VLBI observations with an orbiting telescope," according to Dr. Joel Smith, manager of the U.S. Space VLBI project at JPL. Scientific observations are expected to begin in May. The 26-foot diameter orbiting radio telescope will observe celestial radio sources in concert with a number of the world's ground-based radio telescopes. The 1,830-pound satellite will be launched from ISAS' Kagoshima Space Center, at the southern tip of Kyushu, one of Japan's main islands, and will be the first launch with ISAS' new M-5 series rocket. The satellite will go into an elliptical orbit, varying between 620 to 12,400 miles above the Earth's surface. This orbit provides a wide range of distances between the satellite and ground-based telescopes, which is important for producing a high- quality image of the radio source being observed. One orbit of the Earth will take about six hours. The satellite's observations will concentrate on some of the most distant and intriguing objects in the universe, where the extremely sharp radio "vision" of the new system can provide much-needed information about a number of astronomical mysteries. For years, astronomers have known that powerful "engines" in the hearts of quasars and many galaxies are pouring out tremendous amounts of energy. They suspect that supermassive black holes, with gravitational fields so strong that not even light can escape them, lie in the centers of these "engines." The mechanism at work in the centers of quasars and active galaxies, however, remains a mystery. Ground- based radio telescopes, notably NRAO's Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA), have revealed fascinating new details in recent years, and VSOP is expected to add a wealth of new information on these objects, millions or billions of light-years distant from Earth. Many of these same objects act as super-powerful particle accelerators to eject "jets" of subatomic particles at nearly the speed of light. Scientists plan to use VSOP to monitor the changes and motions in these jets to learn more about how they originate and interact with their surroundings. The satellite also will aim at regions in the sky where giant collections of water and other molecules act as natural amplifiers of radio emission much as lasers amplify light. These regions, called cosmic masers, are found in areas where new stars are forming and near the centers of galaxies. Observations can provide the detail needed to measure motions of individual maser "spots" within these regions, and provide exciting new information about the star-forming regions and the galaxies where the masers reside. In addition, high-resolution studies of cosmic masers can allow astronomers to calculate distances to them with unprecedented accuracy, and thus help resolve continuing questions about the size and age of the universe. The project is a major international undertaking, with about 40 radio telescopes from more than 15 countries having committed time to co-observe with the satellite. This includes the National Science Foundation's Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA), an array of 10 telescopes spanning the United States from Hawaii to Saint Croix; NASA's Deep Space Network (DSN) sites in California, Spain, and Australia; the European VLBI Network, more than a dozen telescopes ranging from the United Kingdom to China; a Southern Hemisphere array of telescopes stretching from eastern Australia to South Africa; and Japan's network of domestic radio telescopes. In the United States, NASA is funding critical roles in the VSOP mission at both JPL and NRAO. JPL has built an array of three new tracking stations at its DSN sites in Goldstone, CA; Madrid, Spain; and near Canberra, Australia. A large existing tracking station at each of these sites has also been converted to an extremely sensitive radio telescope for simultaneous observations with the satellite. JPL also is providing precision orbit determination, scientific and operational planning support to the Japanese, and advice to U.S. astronomers who wish to observe with the satellite. NRAO is building a new tracking station at Green Bank, WV; contributing observing time on the VLBA array of telescopes; modifying existing data analysis hardware and software, and aiding astronomers with the analysis of the VSOP data. Much of the observational data will be processed at NRAO's facility in Socorro, NM, using the VLBA Correlator, a special purpose high-performance computer designed to process VLBI data. VSOP is the culmination of many years of planning and work by scientists and engineers around the world. Tests using NASA's Tracking and Data Relay Satellite System (TDRSS) proved the feasibility of space VLBI in 1986. Just last year, those old data were used again to test successfully the data- reduction facilities for VSOP. JPL manages the U.S. Space Very Long Baseline Interferometry project for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. The VLBA, headquartered in Socorro, NM, is part of the National Radio Astronomy Observatory, a facility of the National Science Foundation, operated under cooperative agreement by Associated Universities, Inc. - end -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 Life Channel reminder From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:42:16 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 17:16:08 -0500 Subject: Life Channel reminder Just a reminder folks! Tonight (Friday, February 7) on the life channel will be "The Search For Ancient Wisdom." This is a production about the ancient astronaut theme,...with a twist. Cheers Drew
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 UFO UpDate:BWW Media Alert 960207 From: Bufoatwork@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:04:41 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 19:26:19 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate:BWW Media Alert 960207 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) February 7, 1997 Thank you to all the people who wrote nice notes about seeing or hearing me this last week. I love doing that stuff, but for right now, you can go back to reading me :) It's sort of a slow week. A&E's UNEXPLAINED series is not really covering paranormal this week (but will in the future). MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES on the SCI-FI Channel is pre-empted on Friday for a marathon. SIGHTINGS is a bit tough to figure out what is on which time...as you know, I can't guarantee any of the information on these listings. Still, as always, there's quite a bit to catch. FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see the excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. Following up on the STINGRAY "submarine meets Loch Ness Monster" last week, the Seaview sails up an unknown passage into the Loch on VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA on the SCI-FI CHANNEL on Thursday at 7:00 AM (remember, all times are Pacific). The SWISS FAMILY ROBINSON kids think there's a sea monster on SWISS FAMILY ROBINSON, Saturday, noon on FX. AMERICAN MOVIE CLASSICS has several good offerings this week, most notably the original INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS at 2:00 pm and 8:30 pm on Saturday. Also on AMC's original series, REMEMBER WENN, one of the group makes a prediction, unnerving everybody else. At 9:30 am on Sunday, AMC has SCARED STIFF, where Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin deal with zombies (see that night at 7:00 pm on THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL for a non-fiction take on zombies). The PBS kids' show, ARTHUR, seems to do a lot of paranormal themes. This week: fear of an alien invasion. 1:00 AM, Friday on A&E, BEDAZZLED, wacky comedy which presents one of the few convincing interpretations of Satan I've seen...one in which you believe you might be tempted (as opposed to the guy in horns and a cape: who's going to believe him?) RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE: Check out the website for stations and guest info http://www.endoftheline.com). The show runs on M-F from 5:00 to 7:00 pm Pacific. It can also be heard over the Internet, which is kind of cool, although it sounds like it's underwater (at least on my computer). If you want details of how to hear it that way, ask me. Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: --week of 2/2: kitten leads person out of the way of car; angel reassures dying man --week of 2/9: angel yells "Timber", sort of; woman is rescued from assailant by blue figure PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --week of 2/3: FORBIDDEN NORTH (battered by bigfoot?); REINCARNATION (hypnotic precognition during past-life regression) --week of 2/10: Saturday, February 8 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Part 2 of interview with Barbara Hand Clow (author of THE PLEIDIAN AGENDA*) 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: UFOs (includes the Bob Taylor case, where stinky, spiky balls ripped his pants...hey, watch it! This is a family e-zine ;) . To add insult to injury, the pants were later lost while on loan for investigation) 6:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, DISCOVER MAGAZINE, LOST IN TIME (is time travel possible? I've written quite a bit on it myself) Sunday, February 9 LOCAL RADIO, 1220 CHSC AM in St. Catharines, Ontario (and available via Internet), THE "X" SHOW: no details available. Check the website at www.xchonicles.com for more info (like airtime...) SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): THE MAJESTIC 12 DOCUMENTS (these highly controversial materials purport to be government communications discussing the alien crash near Roswell, and the existence of a secret group to study it, etc.); SAO PAOLO HAUNTING! (Big city in Brazil with a haunting in a skyscraper...not the first time this sort of thing has happened, they aren't all castles or creaky, broken-down houses on your block); VANISHED! (Kristin Smart disappeared, the police called in psychic Kathlyn Rhea); SECRETS OF THE SPHINX (hey, don't get "nosy"...the sphinx can't ;) ); NEW MEXICO CATTLE MUTILATIONS! 1:30 PM, A&E, AMERICAN JUSTICE: BOSTON STRANGLER (includes the use of psychics to solve the case) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): THE MAJESTIC 12 DOCUMENTS (these highly controversial materials purport to be government communications discussing the alien crash near Roswell, and the existence of a secret group to study it, etc.); SAO PAOLO HAUNTING! (Big city in Brazil with a haunting in a skyscraper...not the first time this sort of thing has happened, they aren't all castles or creaky, broken-down houses on your block); VANISHED! (Kristin Smart disappeared, the police called in psychic Kathlyn Rhea); SECRETS OF THE SPHINX (hey, don't get "nosy"...the sphinx can't ;) ); NEW MEXICO CATTLE MUTILATIONS! 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: ZOMBIES: THE LIVING DEAD 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059):THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5059): THE MAJESTIC 12 DOCUMENTS (these highly controversial materials purport to be government communications discussing the alien crash near Roswell, and the existence of a secret group to study it, etc.); SAO PAOLO HAUNTING! (Big city in Brazil with a haunting in a skyscraper...not the first time this sort of thing has happened, they aren't all castles or creaky, broken-down houses on your block); VANISHED! (Kristin Smart disappeared, the police called in psychic Kathlyn Rhea); SECRETS OF THE SPHINX (hey, don't get "nosy"...the sphinx can't ;) ); NEW MEXICO CATTLE MUTILATIONS! Monday, February 10 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: girl wakes from coma upon hearing her favorite song (Gee, I wonder if it was the Everly Brothers?)(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (#23): BLACK HOPE HORROR (poltergeist); UFO ABDUCTIONS; ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS Tuesday, February 11 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: stigmata (generally, this describes wounds on religious people that mimic the crucifixion, although it can mean other things) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#24): INDIAN GHOST STORY; CALICO DIG (ancient humans); RAILROAD SPIRITS (in Texas) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MYSTERY CATS (specifically covers the thylacine, which isn't a cat but a marsupial that looks (or looked) like a dog. It is considered extinct, but reports still come in of people seeing it.) Wednesday, February 12 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: "sex change capital of the world" Trinidad, Colorado (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) BRITISH TV NOTE: FORTEAN TV on Channel 4 (it comes on before ER) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES & MIRACLES (#25): WEREWOLF; CHESSIE (Loch Ness monster type creature in Chesapeke Bay); INDIAN BURIAL GROUNDS 5:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, TRAVELERS: HAUNTED HAPPENINGS: haunted places and other weird stuff in Salem Massachusetts 7:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4050): a story from Zimbabwe; psychic healing; exorcisms in England; fake out-of-body experiences; ghostly peeping Tom 9:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, ROYAL SECRETS WEEK: SORCERY (all about the intrigue concerning alleged black magic in the court of Louis XIV) 11:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#4050): a story from Zimbabwe; psychic healing; exorcisms in England; fake out-of-body experiences; ghostly peeping Tom Thursday, February 13 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: school for witchcraft (must make for interesting "spelling" bees, hm?) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, REAL HISTORY, ROYAL SECRETS WEEK: SORCERY (all about the intrigue concerning alleged black magic in the court of Louis XIV) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#26): TWINS; SAN ANTONIO SPIRITS; SNAKE DANCING 5:00 PM, AMC, THE MIRACLE OF OUR LADY OF FATIMA (docudrama of what some have called an appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary, others have called UFO) 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: 9:00 PM, AMC, THE MIRACLE OF OUR LADY OF FATIMA (docudrama of what some have called an appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary, others have called UFO) Friday, February 14 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: weird valentines (this should be interesting...this show can be risque) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES 8:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES: aphrodisiacs; a secret "ray gun" This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). Alternatively, you can mail your check or money order to: Greenleaf Publications P.O. Box 8152 Murfreesboro, TN 37133 U.S.A. Add $4 for the first item and $1 for each additional item for S&H in the U.S. My foreign correspondents should add $5 for the first one, $1.50 for each additional (plus $3 if shipped by air). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 7 DISPATCH #39 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:48:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 23:02:53 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH #39 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #39 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 2/7/97 Quote of the Week "Counterinsurgency planners will be able to concoct 'medicines' and other devices within the superstitious framework of the target group with which to neutralize and overpower the spells cast by insurgent witch-doctors." -- From a 1964 U.S. Army report on psy-ops warfare tactics for use in "primitive cultures." (View the entire report in ParaScope's Dossier section.) -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: Bob Barker Is My Psychic Friend Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. If you've spotted a great rant, send it to us. This week's rant: "I don't know but I definitely have real ESP connections with a number of people. My mom can tell you it is scarey how many times I have finished her sentances (we live 600+) miles apart. my dad. can attest to this.Some strange examples here that are more than just a coincidence because of the frequency with which they occur. "A> friend from Lima, Ohio call after I've seen sign Allen county tags or other tie in. "b> ex boyfriend will call after i see some reference to Marrietta,OH his former home town, AEP, his employer, or Tiffin, OH his wife's former residence or some other personal tie. It is too weird and too predictable. "c> latest weirdness. watching price is right contestant has same first name and very similar last name and could be a double for guy i'm seeing now (we were broken up at time) imagine my surprise when guess who calls me shortly there after. "d> too weird as well . I am taking real estate law in Ohio. Imagine my surprise when a case referenced in book wriiten by a professor at a Mich. University takes place in my former home town in CT. Also why is there a picture of New Canaan,(CT) Realty in this book. You would think thecould have found something closer. need I say more . I can hardly wait to see what happens next!!!" [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names withheld to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Netizens, ParaScope Needs Your Help! Getting the word about ParaScope out onto the Net is easier said than done. The Internet is a vast and confusing place for lots of people who no doubt be loyal ParaScope readers, if only they knew we existed. Please pass along this newsletter to a friend who might be interested in subscribing. And, if you'd like to serve as our Internet Evangelist or our Webmaster, please see our job openings at the end of this letter. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ A Word to Our Friends in the Pentagon Well, we knew it was bound to happen sooner or later. Frankly, we're surprised it took them so long. Folks in the Pentagon have finally written to us here at ParaScope with a mysterious question. To protect the identity of our source "inside," we'll call him "Mr. M," even though we're not even sure he's a he. At any rate, "Mr. M" wrote us from his pentagon.mil e-mail address to ask: "Great info on the Pyramids! I was just web surfing and came upon this site....The info is fantastic and I just learned in about 10 minutes what I never learned in High School! Just one question. And it's probably a stupid one, so don't laugh. What keeps the Pyramids from collapsing into the middle? If you try stacking Legos in the same fashion as the pyramids, you can only get so many high before the balance is off center, and the structure collapses." Well, "Mr. M," we're glad the Pentagon is relying on us for crucial tactical information like this. The answer to what keeps the pyramids from collapsing is: rocks! See, except for a few small chambers and tunnels, the pyramids are not hollow. They're just big piles of well-fitted rocks stacked in careful order. The sides don't collapse because they are really just sides of stones piled on top of other stones. We hope this answers your question, and good luck programming those cruise missiles! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Solve a Puzzle, Play a Game, Win a Prize Oswaldo is hiding in a crowd of folks and we can't find him, can you? Do you have an interesting eyewitness account you'd like to share with us? Our Nexus area (it's in the main screen listbox) on our AOL site is chock full of fun games and puzzles, and if you're among the lucky and skillful, you can win a cool CD-ROM game for your efforts. Sorry websters, this feature is on AOL only! Check it out, have some fun, and win a prize. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Monday, Feb. 10: Alien Autopsy Cameraman Update Who else but ParaScope could bring you up-to-date analysis on one of the longest-running, most widely-discussed stories in UFO lore. Nebula editor Paul Thompson boldly dissected the "Alien Autopsy" hoax last year, and now he's blowing apart the brouhaha surrounding the alleged film's "cameraman." Thompson's update on the story certain people DON'T want you to read is worth the wait, and it's coming to you next Monday in Nebula. --------------- Tuesday, Feb. 11: A Spy for All Seasons For Duane "Dewey" Clarridge, a former high-ranking CIA officer, the Cold War was a career. Clarridge held key posts in CIA stations around the globe, and during the Reagan administration served as chief of the Latin America Division and the European Division. Indicted for perjury charges stemming from the Iran-contra scandal, Clarridge avoided trial when President Bush pardoned him in late 1992. Clarridge's recently published autobiography, "A Spy for All Seasons," provides a fascinating glimpse inside the covert culture of the CIA: the secret operations, the struggles with the media and Congress, and the scandals that marred the careers of top intelligence officials. Dossier editor Jon Elliston offers expert analysis and insight on the life and times of one of America's top spies. --------------- Wed, Feb. 12: The Defense Department's Cyberwar Manifesto The Pentagon recently released a report warning of an "electronic Pearl Harbor" at the hands of hackers, terrorists and subversives -- you know, the usual boogeymen that the National Security State pulls out of its bag of tricks whenever it is getting ready to shaft American people. As part of its program of "countermeasures," which are intended to serve as a guide for "international banks" and other targets of opportunity, the Pentagon seeks the legal right to retaliate against users it suspects are attempting to hack DOD computers and networks by injecting "enemy" computers with "a polymorphic virus that wipes out the system, takes it down for weeks." Matrix editor Charles Overbeck asks, will the "search and destroy" warfare model prevail in the unexplored regions of cyberspace? --------------- Thurs, Feb. 14 (Valentine's Day): My Freaky Valentine In this very special edition of Fortean Slips, ParaScope delves into the magic and the mystery behind that indefinable, impossible, inescapable thing called love. Explore the wacky world of paranormal romance novels (dubbed "new reality romance" by the publishing biz), learn about Japan's plans for a newlywed hotel orbiting the Moon (are you ready for a "Lunar Honeymoon"?), find out how marijuana-like chemicals discovered in chocolate produce a swoony feeling known as the "Hershey High", and witness a special romantic vignette about the magic that exists between a man, a woman, and the ultimate in fishing tackle in "Fishes and the Mrs." All this, plus absolutely no poems, jingles, ditties, ballads or love songs, as Enigma editor D. Trull asks, "Will you be my freaky valentine?" +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Join the Revolution Can you smell it? It's the scent of fear! The corporations, power-brokers and media moguls are running scared as the populist masses take their case to the Net in a digital revolution that is changing the planet. The propaganda war is already underway, and ParaScope is fighting for you! Join the crusade. --------------- Web Wizard/Java Jockey Wanted ParaScope is looking for a motivated, professional webmaster with skills in java, CGI and database programming. This part-time, paid position offers the chance to shape one of the most dynamic, high-profile sites on the Web. Send your web programming qualifications and personal data to parascope@aol.com with "web help" in the subject line. --------------- Internet Evangelist If you love ParaScope and find yourself constantly telling your friends online about us, why not make it your official hobby!? ParaScope needs help in getting the word out to the rest of the Internet about the great work we're doing. If you know your way around newsgroups, search engines, mailing lists and the other nooks and crannies of the Net and you'd like to volunteer to help us publicize ParaScope to everyone on the Net, drop us a line! Send a note with a bit of personal data to parascope@aol.com with "internet evangelist" in the subject line. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com Search for other documents from or mentioning: parascope | listserv |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 More 'Mack and Hopkins together in Boston on March From: ParadigmRG@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:22:45 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 08:09:16 -0500 Subject: More 'Mack and Hopkins together in Boston on March In my earlier post I left out some information which should have been included, my apologies to the list and to PEER. A significant forum will take place on March 7, 1997 in Boston at John Hancock Hall at 7:30 pm Dr. John E. Mack and Budd Hopkins will conduct "A Dialogue on the Alien Abduction Experience" moderated by Christopher Lydon The contrasting views on this matter within the field will be discussed with audience particiapation. The Event will benefit PEER and the Intruders Foundation Admission is $20 $30 at the door if seats are available To reserve seats, send a check or money order (sorry no credit cards) by Feb. 26, payable to PEER/CPSC, to: Program for Extraordinary Experience Research (PEER) P.O. Box 390707 Cambridge, MA 02139-0008 After February 26, seat availability can be checked by calling 617-497-2667 See you there. Steve Bassett
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 'Space' press release From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 12:31:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 08:11:27 -0500 Subject: 'Space' press release News Release Contact: Rick Tumlinson @ (800)931-0627 or 1-800-78SPACE Group Calls NASA Commercialization Efforts "A Costly Joke" FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Citing a recent study on NASA's efforts to open the space station to commercial users, the Space Frontier Foundation said today that the agency is not only not helping American firms do business in space, but has been blocking such efforts for years. The $400k study, by the non-partisan Potomac Institute, was commissioned by one of two high level NASA managers in charge of space station commercialization efforts who have since left the job in frustration. It found the space agency is actively discouraging, and at times sabotaging efforts by businesses to operate in space. Rick N. Tumlinson, the Foundation's President, stated he believes this behavior is hurting the nation two ways: "The line NASA's PR machine puts out about supporting commercial firms in space is a joke. Not only are these turf driven bureaucrats costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars by doing things that American industry could be doing cheaper, better, faster, they are costing the nation our future on the frontier, by blocking the birth of new industries in space that could eventually be worth billions and employ people all over the country." The report was based on over 150 interviews with companies of all kinds that dealt with the agency over the last decade or who had tried to take part in the space station program. These firms ranged from entrepreneurial start ups trying to take over such low tech tasks as transporting space station waste, to giants such as Johnson and Johnson, who want to experiment with new drugs in the space environment. According to the Potomac Institute researchers, the results were an almost universal thumbs down on NASA's efforts to support new enterprises on the frontier. The Foundation says the report shows NASA leadership is snubbing White House and Congressional mandates to reduce space spending by "re-inventing government" and spinning off any activities better handled by commercial firms: "This is outrageous behavior in an administration that tells the people it is working to save tax dollars and create opportunities for citizens to take over jobs now handled by government workers. Who is NASA working for, itself, or the American people?" He continued: "This is exactly the opposite of President Clinton's pronouncements that the government should be a good partner to industry. Many NASA managers see the private sector as a threat, not a potential partner. What's worse is that our allegedly free enterprise oriented Congress let's the agency get away with this. It's as if the mystique of space has them all hypnotized." In conclusion, Tumlinson pointed out: "There's a reason there is no economic boom in space. NASA's bureaucracy has killed it. To the right stuffers at the agency, space is theirs. Period. They do not want the great unwashed to play in their sandbox, and they don't give a damn what it costs in today's tax dollars or tomorrow's lost opportunities for the American people." "The great irony here is that the agency shouldn't be trying to run the space station at all. Let's face it, the station is actually nothing more than a building in space, and they are explorers, not landlords and definitely not business people. It should be handed to the private sector to turn into an economic and scientific research and development center. This would then free up hundreds of millions of dollars that could be used to do the exciting things NASA was created to do, and what many NASA employees want to do, such as exploring Mars and the Solar System and developing new leading edge technologies by flying X-vehicles. It's time to get NASA back on track and out on the frontier. Lewis and Clark have done their job here in the Earth's neighborhood. Now we must let the shopkeepers and entrepreneurs take over." ________________________________________________________________________ The Space Frontier Foundation is a grass roots organization of American citizens dedicated to opening space to economic development and human settlement as soon as possible. For information on the Foundation call 1-800-78SPACE or visit our WEB Site at: www.space-frontier.org Our E-Mail Address is OPENFRONTIER@DELPHI.COM
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 Media Watch, Volume 27.1 From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:24:03 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 08:10:15 -0500 Subject: Media Watch, Volume 27.1 CNI News Media Watch This is the CNI News weekly preview of CNI-related television, radio, film and print media, compiled and edited by Rebecca Keith. MEDIA WATCH is updated every Friday and covers the week from Saturday to Friday. Take it! It's free! Media Watch, Volume 27.1 February 7, 1997 A department of CNI News Compiled and Edited by Rebecca Keith Welcome to Media Watch. This edition covers the week of Saturday, February 8 to Friday, February 14, 1997. AT THE MOVIES... -- "Dante's Peak" opened today. I haven't seen it yet, but the reviews are raving about the special effects while generally panning the story. This is the first of three volcano movies to be released this year. (Big year for volcano and asteroid disaster flicks -- are we being prepared for the wrath of Mother Nature?) -- "Star Wars" is back in theaters and the newly revised film is drawing huge audiences with long lines in most cities. -- Last week I reported about Gary Oldman accepting the part of Dr. Smith on the soon-to-be-started "Lost in Space" based on the 1968 television series of the same name. The bulk of the major characters have now been cast with Mimi Rogers signing on to play Maureen Robinson. William Hurt has been cast as John Robinson. "Party of Five's" Lisa Chabert is cast as Penny with the newcomer Jack Johnson as Will Robinson. The New Line Cinema film is set to begin shooting in London on March 3. Over 700 special effects are planned for the film. TV NEWS... "Cinefantastique" magazine reports that "Baywatch Nights" is now going to be doing more of a paranormal type story line. I include the show for the first time in Media Watch. I have never seen the show, but will try to watch this week to see what is going on with the series. DISCLAIMER: Please bear in mind that show times and descriptions are not set in stone, and the networks have a right to change anything they want -- and believe me, they do change things! Please check your local listings for times in your area. TV HIGHLIGHTS... Star Trek fans won't want to miss this week's "Voyager," as the Borg arrive to bring chaos!... A.C. Clarke's "Mysterious World" looks to be interesting on Saturday with a report of a Scottish UFO landing case... "Dark Skies" is heating up! There have been hints that Kim is going to get pregnant and this episode may be the prelude to that... "X-Files" is back with more about Scully's cancer and her abduction... Dennis Rodman guest stars on a repeat of "3rd Rock" on a Monday night special... PBS is showing a 4-part series on "Nova" showing modern attempts to re-create Stonehenge and other giant stone monuments using ancient tools... On Friday (just in time for Valentine's day?) FOX brings us "Doomsday: What Can We Do?" There are more great shows in this second week of Sweeps -- but I just don't have the room to list them all. SYNDICATED TV... Check local listings or the web for times and stations in your area. -- "Babylon 5" -- The Shadow and Vorlon fleets face each other near Corianna, with Sheridan and the White Star fleet caught in the middle; Londo removes the Shadow base from Centauri Prime. -- "Baywatch Nights" -- Teague revives two ice-bound Vikings, one of whom leads Mitch and Griff on a chase through L.A., while the other warms to Ryan. -- "Could it be a Miracle" No details. -- "Psi Factor" -- A logger claims he was attacked by a sasquatch; and while trying to learn about his past life, a hypnotized man predicts the future of a financier. -- "Star Trek: Deep Space 9" -- An impending attack by the Dominion convinces Sisko to close the wormhole; meanwhile, Garak and Worf are taken prisoner by the Jem'Hadar. Part 1 of 2. -- "Star Trek: Voyager" -- The Borg arrive! Chakotay lands in a colony of ex-prisoners who've escaped the "collective consciousness" imposed on them by the Borg, but whose newfound individuality has them fighting among themselves. Voyager also has a brush with the Borg when a disabled ship provides the Doctor and Kes with a chance to perform a Borg autopsy. -- "Strange Universe" -- Monday through Friday this program covers a variety of paranormal topics in a news-type format. Check out www.strangeuniverse.com for times and channels in your area. DAILY TV LISTINGS... All times are Eastern Time Zone. SATURDAY 2/8 10:00 am TLC -- "Uncertainty" -- The strange, small world of quantum mechanics is a daunting subject. Take a quizzical glimpse at quarks and a world in constant flux. 11:00 am TLC -- "Magnetism" -- Magnetism exerts its force on virtually every area of modern life, pulling the world together. It powers computers, runs motor vehicles, orients compasses, and helps doctors save lives. 1:00 pm SciFi -- "New Eden" -- A meek engineer is exiled to a brutal prison planet. With Stephen Baldwin and Lisa Bonet. (2 hrs) 1:00 pm TLC -- "The Universe" -- Scientists are trying to explain the universe -- to help us understand the mysterious space in which we live. As new theories are formed, new discoveries keep forcing new paradigms. 2:00 pm TLC -- "Time" -- The many notions and perceptions of time are examined, including the topics of biogenesis; time perception of newborn babies; time in religion, science, and the arts; and Einstein's Theory of Relativity. 2:30 pm DSC (Discovery) -- "Mysterious World" -- Arthur C. Clarke examines the bizarre UFO case of Scottish forest worker Bob Taylor, who on November 9, 1979 witnessed an unusual round object in the woods and two smelly (!!) spheres on spikes rolled out. 5:00 pm [again later tonight at 11:30 pm] AMC -- "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" -- Don Siegel directed this subtle terror classic about extraterrestrial beings invading the minds and bodies of earthlings. 7:00 pm SciFi -- "X-Tro 2: The Second Encounter" -- A research facility conducts an experiment to transfer people to a parallel dimension. Out of the three researchers sent to the other side, only one returns -- but he is playing host to a biohazardous creature brought over from the other dimension. Sound familiar? It should, because this is a low-budget remake of "Alien." 7:00 pm A&E -- "Mysteries of the Bible" -- Did events described in the Bible really happen? Can they be confirmed by natural phenomena? Includes the parting of the Red Sea, the Lost Ark of the Covenant, David and Goliath, the Lost Tribes of Israel, and others. (2 hrs) 7:00 pm USA -- "Lost on Earth" -- No description for the episode. 8:00 pm NBC -- "Dark Skies" -- John rejoins Majestic with a plan to lure a craft to the ground. When they manage to capture a wounded Gray, Kim discovers she has a psychic connection with it. Also, the Hive attempts to nab a little girl and only Juliet knows why. 9:00 pm CBS -- "Early Edition" -- Part two of two. Suspected of killing Hawks, Gary tries to prove his innocence by establishing the identity of Kennedy's real assassin. 9:00 pm SciFi -- "Critters 2: The Main Course" -- The intergalactic hairballs return to small-town Kansas. 9:00 pm TMC -- "Powder" -- A thought-provoking movie about an albino youth with advanced intelligence and electromagnetic powers, and the prejudice he encounters in a Texas town. I really like this movie, in a strange sort of way. 11:05 pm DIS (Disney) -- "Back to the Planet of the Apes" -- Made-for-TV in 1974. Re-edited from the video series about astronauts in a futuristic, simian society. 12:40 am DIS [again Sunday at 9:15 am on Encore] -- "Dune" -- Extravagant adaptation of Frank Herbert's epic about an interplanetary power struggle for a magical spice. SUNDAY 2/9 4:30 am SciFi -- "Kolchak: The Night Stalker" -- In a rehash of the "Devil in the Dark" episode of "Star Trek", workers at a high security underground complex are being killed off by a large bi-pedal lizard when construction disturbs her eggs. 11:00 am SciFi -- "Alien Nation" -- An interactive pornographic channel is targeted by one of its clients. Meanwhile George learns the price of fame as a camera follows him around for a series on successful Newcomers. 1:00 pm WGN "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" -- Fun-loving teenage buddies travel through time to study for a history exam. Good-natured silliness that is hard to beat! 2:00 pm SciFi [also at 7:00 pm tonight and early Monday morning at 2:00 am] -- "Sightings" -- Jamie Shandera and Stanton Friedman are interviewed about the MJ-12 documents and a crash retrieval manual; cattle mutilations in New Mexico; and haunted city hall in South America. 6:00 pm AMC [also Monday morning at 4:30 am] -- "Kronos" -- An alien robot is intent on draining all of earth's energy. Made in 1956 with Jeff Morrow and Barbara Lawrence. 7:00 pm A&E -- "Ancient Mysteries with Leonard Nimoy" -- What is it about Troy that 3200 years after the legendary fall of a legendary city we still try to unravel her mysteries? Scholars try to answer this question by researching the Greek poet Homer and his epic tale of love and war. (1 hr) 7:00 pm DSC -- "Mysterious Universe" -- Arthur C. Clarke accesses the information relating to zombies, voodoo, and the living dead. 8:00 pm CBS -- "Touched by an Angel" -- Monica poses as a musician's assistant for an entertainer who bills himself as the "angel of death," but the man is haunted by an incident from his childhood. 9:00 pm FOX -- "X-Files" -- Scully learns she has brain cancer, the same type found in the women who previously claimed to recognize her from their alleged alien abduction -- and only one of that group remains alive. 9:00 pm PBS -- "The New Explorers" -- "The Mystery of Machu Picchu" chronicles a Peruvian expedition to explore the origins of the lost city of the Incas, an elaborate mountaintop ruin discovered in 1911 on the western coast of South America. Two scientists and an amateur archaeologist share their interpretations. (1 hr) 10:00 pm MAX (Cinemax) -- "Strange Days" -- Apocalyptic vision of L.A. on the eve of the millennium, as a former cop hustles virtual-reality discs that can record any human experience -- including murder. 11:45 pm SHO -- "Outer Limits" -- An infected computer controls society. MONDAY 2/10 8:45 am TMC -- "StarGate" -- Imaginative special effects enhance this tale about two explorers who discover another world after deciphering a code on an ancient Egyptian artifact. 9:00 am SciFi -- "Lost in Space" -- An experiment gone awry transports John to an antimatter world, and sends his evil double back. Will, Smith, and the Robot attempt to rescue the real John, but the evil John is willing to kill everyone to keep his freedom from the miserable antimatter world. 11:00 am SciFi -- "Mystery, Magic and Miracles" -- Hauntings in suburban Texas; A visit to the ruins of Pompeii; alien abductions. 12:30 pm MAX -- "Brainstorm" -- An extraordinary invention, which reads into the human soul, may fall into the hands of a ruthless colleague in this implausible but better-than-average sci-fi thriller. Stars Christopher Walken and Natalie Wood (who died during the filming of this movie), but the real stars of this flick are the special effects. 2:30 pm SciFi -- "Ray Bradbury Theater" -- A group of 8-year-olds rally around an invisible person who promises them the world. Title: The Jar. 8:00 pm NBC -- "3rd Rock from the Sun" -- It's Dick vs. Evil Dick! A great episode with the NBA's Dennis Rodman playing -- what else? -- an alien! Rerun. (1 hr). 9:00 pm DSC [repeats at midnight] -- "Sci-Trek" -- Learn the history of the $2 billion Hubble Space Telescope, used to make previously impossible observations and discoveries, and hear from the astronomers and scientists who built it. 9:00 pm TLC [repeats at midnight] -- "Three Minutes to Impact" -- What would happen if a large comet hit the Earth? Computer animation offers a look at the potential impact, and scientists discuss the implications of the possible calamity. 10:00 pm SciFi [again at 2:00 am] -- "V: The Series" -- Although Robin's more reptilian infant dies shortly after birth, its death reveals clues to a biological weapon that could be used against the Visitors. TUESDAY 2/11 3:00 am WGN -- "The Amityville Horror" -- James Brolin and Margot Kidder in an adaptation of the "true" bestseller, about a family coping with the supernatural. 9:00 am SciFi -- "Lost in Space" -- Shapeless aliens imprison the Robinsons and make themselves into their doubles (boy, they sure had a lot of problems with impostors), then hijack the Jupiter 2, planning to go back and conquer the Earth (again! <sigh>). 11:00 am SciFi -- "Mystery, Magic and Miracles" -- "Indian Ghost Story:" can ancient carvings offer insight into our pasts & futures? "Calico Dig": recent discoveries in a California desert prove that early humans existed 150,000 years earlier than previously believed. "Railroad Spirits": hauntings at a RR crossing in Texas. 2:30 pm SciFi -- "Ray Bradbury Theater" -- A backwoods man impresses the townsfolk with a mysterious jar. Titled: Zero Hour. 6:00 pm MAX -- "Star Trek Generations" -- Captain Kirk meets Pickard, as two crews of the Enterprise unite to battle the inevitable mad scientist. This seventh voyage may be a bit confusing to non-Trekkers but builds up to warp speed for an exciting climax. 6:00 pm SciFi -- "Twilight Zone" -- An hysterical young man (Dennis Weaver) tries to persuade the judge who sentenced him to death that he and the people around him are just part of a recurring nightmare. Title: Shadow Play 8:30 pm UPN (Paramount) -- "Homeboys in Outer Space" -- When Andy keeps an eye on Ty and Mo, their fortunes take a turn for the better; meanwhile, Amma's pal Zima makes quick friends at the Jupiter Too. 9:00 pm DSC [again at midnight] -- "Mysterious Universe" -- The existence of predatory felines thought to be extinct is explored. 9:00 pm PBS -- "Nova" -- "The Stone Age men were pretty ingenious," says engineer Mark Whitby as he and a team of archaeologists use ancient tools to build a replica of Stonehenge in Part 1 of the four-part "Secrets of Lost Empires." 9:00 pm UPN -- "Burning Zone" -- Massive organ failures are wiping out the buff young surfers at a California beach. 10:00 pm PBS -- "Nova" -- In Part 2 of "Secrets of Lost Empires," archaeologists search the remains of Incan cities in the Andes to test theories of how the ancient masons -- before the invention of the wheel -- transported stones weighing up to 100 tons. 12:30 am CBS -- "Tom Snyder" -- Sit back and enjoy a "colortini" as Tom interviews Deepak Chopra. Chopra now has another new book on the bestseller list. WEDNESDAY 2/12 9:00 am SciFi -- "Lost in Space" -- Confusion surrounds Penny's lineage when she is taken for a space princess, put onto an alien ship, and trained to take over the throne of an another planet. 11:00 am SciFi -- "Mystery, Magic and Miracles" -- "Werewolf": people who claim to suffer from lycanthropy. "Chessie": witnesses claim a prehistoric beast is alive & well in the Chesapeake Bay. "Indian Burial Grounds": the psychic energy emanating from these sacred areas bring peace to some, and warnings to others. 2:30 pm SciFi -- "Ray Bradbury Theater" -- What seems to be a relic from ancient Egypt turns up on a Midwest farm. Title: Colonel Stonesteel and the Desperate Empties. 7:00 pm SciFi [repeats at 2:00 am]-- "Sightings" -- No information at press time. 8:00 pm UPN -- "The Sentinel" -- Blair gets suspicious when Jim doesn't return from a meeting with an Army buddy, but before he can begin to search for his missing partner, he finds himself targeted for murder. 9:00 pm PBS -- "Nova" -- Archaeologists test theories on the construction and transportation of Egyptian obelisks, the 400-ton granite towers built at the time of the New Kingdom (1570-1070 B.C.), in Part 3 of "Secrets of Lost Empires." 10:00 pm PBS -- "Nova" -- Structural engineer Chris Wise admits he'd "be in trouble" if asked to put a roof on the Roman Coliseum when it was dedicated in A.D. 80. Nevertheless, he and a team of consultants try to re-create the canopy believed to have covered the "theater of death." THURSDAY 2/13 9:00 am SciFi -- "Lost in Space" -- A time merchant, living in a Daliesque world, prepares to kill the Robinsons because they accidentally interrupted his time-trip. Smith, sent back to Earth in 1997, must reboard the Jupiter 2, or watch it be destroyed. 11:00 am SciFi -- "Mystery, Magic and Miracles" -- "Twins": psychic connections. "San Antonio Spirits": the site of the Alamo may have supernatural tales to tell. "Snake Dancing": a ritual believed to chase away evil spirits. 2:30 pm SciFi -- "Ray Bradbury Theater" -- A Martian's reluctance to attack Earth stems from what he read in his alien comic books. Title: The Concrete Mixer. 6:00 pm SciFi -- "Twilight Zone" -- A book on the power of thought enables a meek clerk to create a world exactly as he would want it. Title: The Mind and the Matter. 8:00 pm AMC [again at midnight] -- "The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima" -- Reverent spiritual document of the miracle that occurred in Portugal in 1917. 9:00 pm A&E (repeats at 1:00 am) -- "Ancient Mysteries with Leonard Nimoy" -- The Aztec Empire is chronicled. 2:00 am COM (Comedy Central) -- "Vibes" -- Psychics team up with a con man in search of Ecuadorian gold. Jeff Goldblum, Cyndi Lauper, Peter Falk. FRIDAY 2/14 -<----<--- Happy Valentine's Day, Y'all! 7:00 am A&E -- "Classroom: Mummies" -- Explore how the mysterious Sphinx helped bridge the gap between the living and the dead. 5:00 pm AMC -- "The Bishop's Wife" -- A dapper angel (Cary Grant, dapper indeed!) tries to solve social and domestic problems of a bishop. The recent "Preacher's Wife" is a remake of this movie; however, this one is the better of the two! 8:00 pm FOX -- "Doomsday: What Can We Do?" -- Examination of five theories on how the world might end, along with possible ways to prevent such global disasters. Included: a giant meteor strikes Chicago; a deadly virus breaks out in New York City; a nuclear attack destroys Washington D.C.; torrential storms flood Miami. Well, it looks like I might survive here in Houston. 8:00 pm NBC -- "Unsolved Mysteries" -- One of the segments deals with the theories involving a reported secret government ray gun. 8:00 pm TLC [again at 11:00 pm] -- "The Quest: Lunar Mysteries" -- How does the moon affect life on earth? The moon's role in the growth of civilization is explored, as well as its role in various cosmologies, and its effects on tides, animals, and people. 9:00 pm ABC -- "Sabrina the Teenage Witch" -- Harvey and Sabrina are ready to leap into dating and share their first kiss, but as they pucker up, Salem jumps in to stop them. Seems the peck may make Harvey a frog. 9:00 pm FOX -- "Millennium" -- Startling similarities in serial slayings 20 years apart lead Black to suspect that the fiend still imprisoned for the earlier crimes molded the current killer. 10:00 pm HBO -- "Crossworlds" -- A crystal launches an unwitting youth into a dimension where a power struggle threatens the world. 10:00 pm SHO -- "Outer Limits" -- A chemical war causes birth problems in all but one couple's child. 10:45 pm SHO -- "Outer Limits" -- Alyssa Milano stars as a student possessed by an alien presence. 11:00 pm TNT -- "Saturn 3" -- A space station is disrupted by a visitor from Earth. Farrah Fawcett. 2:00 am MAX -- "The Blob" -- This is not the version with Steve McQueen, but the remake of that 1958 classic. In this version, the gooey stuff is manmade, the teenagers aren't angels, and there's gore galore! ON THE RADIO... -- Art Bell's "Coast to Coast" -- Airs Monday - Friday at 2:00 am ET on many stations. Topics include just about anything. Guests are becoming more prevalent on the show but that tends to run in cycles. Check Art's website for additional details on how to hear the program via Real Audio on the Internet or for stations in your area. -- "Dreamland" -- Art Bell hosts a 3 hour program on Sunday evenings beginning at 10 pm ET. The program starts with a 15-20 minute segment with Linda Howe. Art then usually interviews a guest for 2 hours before he opens the phones for callers. No information on this week's guest. -- "End of the Line" with Jeff Rense -- syndicated radio program is devoted to the investigation of UFOs and aliens, political intrigue and scandals, and news on health and alternative medicine. CNI News editor Michael Lindemann is a regular guest every Wednesday night, doing a UFO news update. "End of the Line" airs 9-11 pm Eastern time weeknights, and 11pm to 2am Eastern time on Sundays. For a complete list of stations and other news about the show, check out Jeff's web site at www.endoftheline.com. The program can also be heard on the Internet with Talk America. AT THE BOOKSTORE... A couple of books found in the bargain section at Barnes & Noble bookstores: "UFO: The Complete Sightings" by Peter Brookesmith (Barnes & Noble, ISBN: 1-56619-795-3) -- This great reference book has a wealth of information packed in its 176 pages -- sighting reports dating back as far as Ancient Egypt, nine appendices with sightings maps, a glossary and an index, and more. There have been complaints of some mistakes in the book and the ever skeptical Brookesmith has even been accused of promoting disinformation. Brookesmith himself admits there are some errors and problems with some of the pictures, but I have found the book very helpful when I need to look up something fast. The price is right too, at about $13.00. "UFOs The Final Answer?" edited by David Barclay and Therese Marie Barclay (Barnes & Noble Books, ISBN: 0-7607-0305-1, $6.98) -- From the book jacket: "The editors argue that our present-day anthropocentric bias disposes us to eliminate any explanation that does not conform to certain preconceptions. They are joined by six other ufologists in a nonpartisan analysis of UFO evidence on a wide variety of germane topics: ancient and legendary accounts, the psychosocial dimension, analysis of sighting reports, and abduction experience. Taken together, these nine essays are a serious and thought-provoking excursion into perception and reality. Regardless of their current viewpoint, readers will come away from this book both more informed and more curious." "Psychic Animals" by Dennis Bardens (Barnes & Noble, ISBN: 1-56619-955-7, $5.98) -- From the book jacket: "Fascinating accounts of unusual animal behavior include the stories of the horse that helped police locate the body of a murdered boy, the stowaway dog that sailed 5000 miles to find his master, and the seagull that sought help for an injured woman. In this unique study, well-known psychic investigator Dennis Bardens presents a persuasive body of evidence revealing and explaining remarkable feats of animal telepathy, precognition, and long-distance perception." See y'all next week Rebecca Keith XianneKei@aol.com ============================================= Media Watch is a weekly publication of CNI News, compiled and edited by Rebecca Keith and copyright 1997 by CNI News. Permission granted to reproduce and distribute on the condition that the entire text is included without alteration or omission.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 Skywatch: Abduction/Fetus 'case' in Chile From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:16:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 08:53:11 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: Abduction/Fetus 'case' in Chile ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 14:23:05 -0800 From: lsanchez@chilesat.net To: SKYWATCH <skywatch@wic.net> Subject: Abduction/Fetus case in CHILE Hi Col., This is fresh news.... as I know that there is much UFO information outside the U.S. that doesn't get in for some strange reason.... On the night of Saturday Jan. 30, 1997, Claudia was abducted by a ET's, disapearing for a period of three hours. She new that she was going to be abducted. They (ET's) told her telephaticaly that they were going to meet her that night because she had something that belonged to them. She told her family, so they tried to protect her without results. Witnesses (neighbors) saw strange lights (some said that it was a UFO). Claudia reapeared three hours later in a school yard (which was closed, so they don't know how she got there) all WET. She was found by the school nightwatcher and helped her call by phone to her parents. Claudia has on her stomach (above the belly button) two mark, one triangle and one circle (the first above the other, that is the triangle, the circle and then the belly button). She said that the ET's put her on a table, did something on her stomach, took out a fetus (small baby surounded by a thin white and transparent tissue). She also saw many other fetuses is some kind of glass container. She said that they told her a secret and that she could not tell,otherwise her family would be in danger. She is now being examined by a medical doctor Mr Mario Doussel (he is a phicatrist, sorry for misspelling), that does reseach on abductees/cotactees and colaborates with the UFO organization called AION directed by Mr. Rodrigo Fuenzalida. This case is also being analized by Mr. Jorge Anfruns who represent the MUFON org. here in Chile, and who said publicly that "We are in front of a real case here". Claudia is now being interviewed by journalist from Argentina, Colombia and Spain. She appeard last night on a Argentinean UFO program and probably will appear tonignt on our local TV here in Chile. Claudia is 19 years old, an she lives in San Bernardo (30 min. from Santiago, capital of Chile). She also claims that the ET experiences have been happening since she was 13. I will keep you informed if you wish, of further developements on this interesting case. Greetings... Luis Sanchez ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 15:31:50 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 19:19:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: 06 Feb 97 10:20:38 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > >From: yogi@iadfw.net > >Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 02:11:01 -0600 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob, > >I see. So he sold it to both the Japanese and Bob Kiviat knowing > >that the face could be recognized. Is that right? This is so > >confusing to me. I thought that Ray was trying to protect this > >man's identity. Something is wrong with this picture. > Ray says that's the chance Jack took when he sold Ray this video > and after being told of the problems flatly refused to do it > over again. I think Ray is pretty disgusted with Jack at this > point, and the feeling may be mutual. Ray's agreement with Jack, > as I understand it, was not to reveal his name or physical > location, and he has honored this. I think he will quietly > be pleased if someone "outs" the old guy. This is a major change of attitude if true, but we have been deceived by Ray so many times in the past. It will be very interesting to see if this video interview will actually lead us to a living breathing person. If he's real, someone will recognize him. And if he's not real, then we can only assume that Ray has orchestrated another dubious video and tried to past it off as evidence of something. But unitl we have either the cameraman or the film then we have proof of nothing. > >Now this is weird. I find it hard to believe that Ray didn't have > >more control over the broadcast in Japan than that. After viewing > >the video I can see why Bob is having such a hard time generating > >any interest in it. But hopefully he will find someone to foot > >the bill and televise it here in the US for the public to see. > That's what Ray said. As to how much control he would have over > broadcast dates, I just don't know. The Fuji Network people may > have decided to "scoop" the world media on this and intentionally > misunderstood. If you have had any dealings with Japanese > businessmen, you will know what I am talking about! That's sort of curious to me that Ray didn't have something in his contract with the Japanese that would reflect an agreed upon date of broadcast, but it's really not a problem. I can see where this might have even been a controlled intentional leak by Ray to generate more interest prior to it being shown here in the US. It will be interesting to see what happens if this is shown on TV. Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 Alfred's Odd Ode #90 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 13:45:58 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 19:17:54 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #90 Apology to MW #90 (For February 8, 1997) =20 I was driving past the forest fire The trees were draped with flames. The furnace surged in silent flight, Air gunnery range to blame. =91Sons of Champlin=92 was on my sound box. They were whispering in my ear, "Can you feel it coming?" -- they were asking. "It [will] set you back on your rear." =20 And I should have seen it coming. Think of animals in flight . . . The deer jumped out, and I hit it clean. I added terror to its night. Time shrank to deathly standstill. The watch hand stopped its sweep; I remembered well the last time That I=92d hit a deer so deep. The deer and I =96 we locked eyes. We knew why we were there. I was there to take its life, And it fixed me with its stare. A reminder it was sending. A reminder plain to me A reminder that we=92re as that deer, Unsafe, and weak, not free. Not free of innuendo; Not free of cruel disease; Not free of crashing asteroids=20 Not free of pains surcease. Are we that deer that died last night? Are we to feel cruel impact? Are we to see our death bear down? Have we fumbled our first contact? I=92d felt so good before the strike. I felt alive, and bullet proof. Now I live a sad reminder. I=92m not too proud, not so aloof. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Not a good night, all around =96 and I=92ll always have to remember. . .bet those animals that talked to Dr. Dolittle never said anything to him like that deer said to me. Men and women have sung me that song. . . yet the kingdom _is_ at hand in a non-fundamentalist sort of way. See what I mean, John =96 about cutting like a knife. Real men don=92t need no=20 hug=92s. . . --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." -=20 Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 Re: 'TST' [Tectonic Strain Theory] From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:05:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 19:15:44 -0500 Subject: Re: 'TST' [Tectonic Strain Theory] >From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'TST' >To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:50:35 -0600 (CST) >> That's what I was mentioning to Chris. How did the time and distance >> windows become established in the first place? >Well, my guess is that Persinger realized that the data fit best when >he introduced the lag and lead time. In his articles, he argues that >UFOs are akin to meteorological phenomena which require long periods of >time and large volumes of air to be considered in equations in order to >make weather prediction equations work. I can see where he'd like it with exaggerated time/distance windows but wouldn't you think he'd say to himself, "Duh, hmmm, these time/distance windows are ridiculous and unsupported." >> It would seem to me that you start with a good understanding of exactly >> what an 'earthlight' _IS_. That would then describe their energy source, >> duration, luminosity, etc. From _that_ you could then establish a >> reasonable time and distance window. >I agree. Instead of deciding how data explains a theory, refine the >theory first and establish a mechanism. Does any formal (or just written) mechanism for 'earthlights' exist? >> But apparently, according to Chris, nothing like this was ever done - so >> its all hot air based on newspaper clippings! >> I'm not doubting Chris but I want to hear that from Persinger's mouth >> myself. ><sigh> I should have known it would come to this. >After all my admonishments that people shouldn't accept wacko UFO ideas >without rationally examining the evidence, my warnings are getting >turned back at me. Now I can kind of see how Phil Klass feels! ;) Hahahaha!!! I'm honestly not questioning your review of Persinger's work. I would like to see his raw data so I could run a few analyses with progressively shorter time/distance windows, graph the results, and see where the statistically significant minimun is. >You *are* doubting me, of course. And well you should. After all, >that's why I started taking a good look at Persinger's TST in the first >place. His approach seemed so ridiculous that I couldn't believe people >were supporting his theory. So, I went to the university library and >obtained copies of *all* his published articles and read them in >detail. Only after doing that was it apparent that the TST was not >backed by any physical mechanism and that his methodology was flawed. >But geez, guys, I'm the only person who has taken the time to read >through his stuff and actually publish articles critical of his >research. If you're not going to believe me, why believe Persinger? Hahahaha!!! There's an interesting sociological aspect to this Chris, at least from my perspective. I know a little about you and Persinger. Enough to know that you're both quite competent and quite capable. I also know that I don't have the time to re-investigate _everything_ everybody does. So, (like all of us, perhaps without exactly knowing it) I try to decide if somethng is plausible or plain silly. I thought TST was plausible. (I still sort of do to a very limited extent.) I also thought (considered) your review of it (something I only scanned but didn't study) was the sort of thing you expect during the hypothesis/theory development stage. You can pick any issue of Scientific American and see one guy 'trashing' another's work. Its all interim in my mind. I _assummed_ that Persinger's work was not crap, maybe just off here and there, maybe just incomplete in one way or another.. ><sigh> >Okay, as for the newspaper clippings ... I have already packed away the >100+ articles by Persinger in several boxes, thinking I'd never need >them again and that the issue was dead. (I'm not going to dig through >my boxes in storage for this query. However, I can see that if >Persinger does answer, denying he used clippings, I might have to do it >anyway.) I'm not interested in whether he used newspaper clippings at the moment. I just want the raw data and to play with it myself. And I would like to know the process by which he developed the mechanism with which to establish the time/distance windows. Newspaper clippings aren't necessarily a bad data source. >I seem to recall that one article in which he explains his use of >newspaper and magazine sources as data was one where he correlated ESP >and psychic events with geophysical data. My guess is that it was of of >his hundreds of papers in the journal Perceptual and Motor Skills, >probably about TST paper number 40 or so. I confess to having a major problem with this area. I happen to think dowsing is real and I think ESP (I dislike the term) is real also although to a vastly lesser extent than the media presentation of it. I think that a baseline mechanism for them is magnetic fields (or relative variations in ambient magnetic field strength) and so I am very interested in such work. >Rather than wait for Persinger, why don't *you* go to the library and >do a SocLit/ISI search for articles by Persinger with the keyword >"ESP"? His article are interesting but the raw data is where its at. >Then, of course, you'd find the article and find the reference. >However, then people could assert that you and I were in the conspiracy >together and it would take a *third* person to look for it. Hahahaha!!! >But then the three of us would be in it together .... Its possible! My shoephone is ringing again, could be that conference shoe-call between you, me, and that third evil conspirator! >Like I say, do the research first yourself! Why believe Persinger at >face value? I accepted his work as plausible (as oppossed to believing him) at face value, now I no longer do. >> Has CSICOP itself _ever_ done a study??? Anyway, that's beside the point. >No it's not. I already asked Sheaffer about Persinger. He told me that >Persinger flamed him something fierce. He was, in no uncertain terms, >not impressed with Persinger's TST. So, Dr. P. was a little frisky, eh!?!?! <grin> >*However*, Susan Blackmore has endorsed Persinger's "magic helmet" on >several occasions. I wrote her with my objections, but she never >replied. I think the Magic Helmet is cute. But how does that extend into the real world??? >> Well, at _most_ TST (or some variation) _could possibly_ explain some very >> short duration, very non-distinct, DDs and/or NLs. At _most_, and even >> that remains to be proven. >Yes, that's my view. So, I will try to score some raw data and let you know how that goes. Shall I pass on to him your fondest wishes for a delightful Spring??? Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 Re: Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article From: legion@werple.net.au Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 08:15:34 +1100 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 19:13:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article Hi Greg; > Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:33:57 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <GSANDOW@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Wilbert Smith and MJ-12 - Article > Very interesting post on Wilbert Smith -- a long essay by > Christopher D. Allan, debunking Smith's supposed high status in > the Canadian government, and his notes about supposed high-level > American UFO secrets. Not sure if it was "debunking" (kind of depends on your definition of the word, I suppose), but it did confirm something Loren Gross wrote a few years ago: Smith had no "institutional base" to declare Project Magnet "Top Secret". It was a classification restriction he'd imposed by himself. > Two notes. Allan writes, about the offhand way in which Smith's > Project Magnet was authorized by Canadian officials: > >From _UFO BRIGANTIA_, July 1990 >> There is no official return memo authorizing the project; only a >> simple handwritten note on Smith's memo, from C.P. Edwards, Deputy >> Minister of Transport (Air Services) saying "LOOK, go ahead with >> it and keep me posted from time to time". For a supposed official >> top secret project, it is surely most irregular for it to be >> authorised in this disinterested, almost brush-off like manner. > Curiously, as I noted here some months ago, Franklin Roosevelt > authorized the research that led to the making of the first atomic > bomb in just such an informal fashion. True enough, but the "Manhattan Project" was a real Top Secret project that eventually involved many thousands of people. "Project Magnet" was a small-scale effort that was never highly-classified. > I learned this from Richard Rhodes's book, The Making of the > Atomic Bomb. Another book you should try to find is _Ruin From The Air: The Atomic Mission to Hiroshima_ by Gordon Thomas and Max Morgan-Witts. This is a meticulously researched book that includes interviews with many of the crew and personnel who worked on the Manhattan Project. It's unique in the history of books dealing with that period because it also documents the activities of Japanese scientists who were desperately trying to win the war by building their own A-bomb and a 'Death Ray.' "Ruin" documents the extraordinary levels of security that surrounded the entire Manhattan Project. For instance, when the A-bomb crew was being assembled, prospective pilots, gunners, technicians, etc., were formed into the 393rd Heavy Bombardment Squadron and sent to Wendover, "just 125 miles from Salt Lake City, Utah." Apart from the salt flats, rancid drinking water, termites, rats and heat, it was a pretty good location for a Top Secret airbase. The personnel of the 393rd immediately took to the place, and within hours of their arrival decided to christen the facility with a large sign: "Welcome To Alcatraz". Some spoil-sport MPs made them take the sign down. When Col. Tibbets arrived at Wendover he was met by a Manhattan Project security officer who had a dossier on every single member of the 393rd. The officer, a Major Uanna, and his team had spent thousands of man-hours tapping phones and intercepting mail. No expense had been spared in the gathering of information about the extramarital affairs, sexual orientation and political affiliations of 393rd personnel. Uanna and Tibbets believed the men who'd arrived at Wendover could be trusted -- they thought. They needed to know for sure. Within a few days of arrival the 393rd crew were assembled on the parade ground. Tibbets gave them a pep talk and told they'd been brought together to take part in a special mission which could end the war. That was all, no details. Then they were given two-weeks' leave. After being dismissed several of the keen-eyed crew noticed a nearby hangar door, slightly ajar. They could just make out what looked like a large V-1 rocket. Some of the men smiled to themselves. That's why they were at Wendover; Nazi missiles! Soon the men of the 393rd had dispersed. Some went into Salt Lake, others made their way home. Many of them couldn't believe their luck. During their travels they met friendly NCOs and who bought them drinks and asked them where they were based. Wendover? What goes on out there? Well, they were happy to tell their new friends about the "secret missile" program they were going to be part of. Other members of the 393rd met-up with old school friends and people they'd enlisted with. Surely they could be trusted. So they told them about the "crazy set-up at Wendover" and mentioned strange code-words they'd overheard. They never knew what hit them. Some men were quickly escorted away by security officers, others arrived home to find telegrams ordering their immediate return to Wendover. Once they got back to base they were bawled out and posted out of the squadron. These ex-393rd personnel, who thought they could trust their friends and fellow servicemen, saw out the rest of the war in Alaska. I've often wondered whether these elaborate "loyalty tests" still go on. Say in Groom Lake, Nevada, where plywood mock-up V-1s have been replaced by back-engineered "UFOs" or documents alleging Human-ET interactions? > I'm not saying that the Manhattan Project itself was authorized > so informally when it got underway, or that Project Magnet had > any great status. Once the Manhattan Project commenced it was a massive effort. At one time there were over 6,000 people living and working at Los Alamos alone. Despite all the security, the Russians still managed to infiltrate the facility and set-up a substantial espionage network. We haven't heard any comparable stories about the Russian infiltration of "Magnet" so possibly we can judge its status from that. ;-) > About Allen's remarks about Robert Sarbacher, I'm not as sure. [...] > My impression, from talking to Jerry Clark, is that Sarbacher was > convincing, not least because of his modesty in talking about his > peripheral involvement. His modesty may have been due to the very fact of his "peripheral" involvement. Sarbacher's knowledge of the alleged UFO/ET retrievals came to him Nth-hand; "I remember in talking with some of the people at the office that I got the impression..." etc. > As I remember, Sarbacher didn't say the aliens were insects. > He said (quoting from Clark's UFO Encyclopedia: "I remember in > talking with some of the peole at the office that I got the > impression these 'aliens' were constructed like certain insects > we have observed on earth, None of the established saucer crash literature makes the "insect" connection, but it was a major aspect of Gerald Heard's 1950 book, _Is Another World Watching?_ The "insect-like" nature of advanced ETs was reprised in the popular 1958 BBC mini-series 'Quatermass & The Pit' and the subsequent 1968 movie remake, 'Five Million Years To Earth'. > About the supposed contradiction between knowing and not knowing > the people involved in the alleged UFO recoveries, here's a fuller > quote from Sarbacher. He's answering specific questions Williman > Steinman asked him. [...] > "My association with the Reseach and Development Board under Doctor > Compton during the Eisenhower adminstration was rather limited so > that although I had been invited to participate in several > discussions associated with the reported recoveries, I could not > personally attend the meetings. I am sure that they would have > asked Dr. [Wernher] von Braun, and the others that you listed were > probably asked and may or may not have attended. This is all I > know for sure. Sarbacher is "sure" that they "would" have asked von Braun (he's not positive), and the "others ... may or may not have attended." Not exactly conclusive. But then it wouldn't be surprising since people like Bush, von Neumann, etc. were involved with various missile programs and so was Sarbacher. The question is whether these distinguished scientists were directly involved in any saucer retrievals. > "3. I did receive some official reports when I was in my office at > the Pentagon but all of these were left there as at the time we > were never supposed to take them out of the office." > All this indicates less of a contradiction -- and more knowledge > of what was going on -- than Allan conveys to us. Sarbacher was in charge of the National Scientific Laboratories, a private company which supplied engineers and scientists for various projects, secret and otherwise. According to an interview with Sarbacher in the September 1985 issue of _JUST CAUSE_: At the time of the R&DB meetings (Research and Development Board), Sarbacher was closely involved in an attempt to set up a radar monitoring system near the North Pole to detect missiles launched from the Soviet Union. Sarbacher's company supplied 300-400 people, mostly engineers, to General Electric for their task of putting the system together. As various problems arose along the way, Sarbacher would be in touch with the engineers from his Washington office to solve the problems. ... Sarbacher's role with the R&DB was as Chairman of the Guidance and Control Panel of the Guided Missile Committee of the R&DB. The R&DB meetings were not necessarily UFO meetings per se but were part of their regular schedule and UFOs came up among other subjects under discussion. Sarbacher told me [CAUS] that since he did not attend the meetings, he had only heard snippets of stories which others more closely involved in the meetings had heard. This included the information in his 11/29/83 letter to Steinman. The crash retrieval data originally came from Wright Field, as Sarbacher recalls. Sarbacher's only involvement with the UFO retrievals was as someone who'd heard "snippets" many times removed from the source. > Bruce Maccabee, according to Clark's encyclopedia, was struck by > how little Sarbacher knew about UFO history. That, if true, would > make it unlikely that he strung together scraps in the way Allan > suggests. I don't agree that it's unlikely. The "insect" story has a direct connection to the Heard book and Sarbacher's descriptions of the alleged UFO materials match those in the Schulgen '47 EEI memo. Sarbacher's employees were working at Wright Field at the time so I don't see this as a stretch at all. Sarbacher was remembering "snippets" of office chit-chat from nearly 40 years before. It was the UFO researchers who put the "scraps" together in a way to support their belief that Sarbacher had first-hand knowledge of a saucer retrieval. > This said, I'm glad to see someone looking into the > Wilbert-Sarbacher business. It's always struck me as a straw in > some kind of wind, but which wind? We need to know more. CAUS spent some time looking for Sarbacher's old files but without success -- so far, at least. Sarbacher told CAUS he'd lost track of his files after the National Scientific Laboratories were sold. Based on the available evidence, there's probably a lot less to the Sarbacher-Smith saga than we've been led to believe. - John -- *----------------------------* |............................| |... legion@werple.net.au ...| |............................| *----------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:05:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 19:16:50 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 14:26:44 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >> Has CSICOP itself _ever_ done a study??? Anyway, that's beside the point. >No, it might be too much to say they endorse the theory. >But they are in there cheering. Of course they're cheering. That's what they do best and they sure look cute in those little skirts! >> We're taling about something that is concurrent with seismic activity (I >> think) and probably not much of a precursor to seismic activity so I doubt >> (I think) it would have predictability value. I'd like to be wrong about >> that one though. >Well, if Persinger is correct about the window being six >months, then it's EUREKA and off to a the scientific study >of UFO sightings to predict Earthquakes--with huge grants >from everyone. How can 6 months be accurate. We don't even have a mechanism established for what an earthlight is... I don't know enough about this to comment in any great detail but I'm not going to let that stop me just yet. Seismic activity doesn't just happen in a single spot, like the corner of 4th and Main <grin>. It'll cover a larger area. It rarely just happens for a second and then not again for a decade, it spans some longer amount of time. So the basic notion that there are time and distance windows associated with seismic activity phenomena isn't entirely stupid. But what is the phenomenological result of the activity? Are we talking about energy released/created with mass and luminosity? Ok, that could be visible and it could transit. How much mass, how much energy, how much luminosity will all go dorectly into determining _realistically observable_ time and distance windows. If the seismic event covers say 500 square miles then its not out of the question to imagine a 500 mile distance window (plus the distance accounted for by the transit and luminosity characteristics of the 'earthlight). That doesn't mean that somebody is seeing something that originated at the other end of the 500 miles <grin>. Are we talking about relative variations in magnetic field strength, as a hallucination source, as a phenomenological result of seismic activity? The requirements are still pretty much the same but the maximum distance window would be less you'd think because it would likely extend much beyond the seismic activity area. But that's not right, of course, because we're talking about a hallucination. (That which causes the hallucination could be entirely separate from the content thereof.) Maybe the 'earthlight' generates the necessary relative variation in ambient magnetic field strength to cause a hallucination <grin>. Now we've extended the distance window quite a bit. What about the time window? What amount of mass are we talking about in an 'earthlight,' how long can it stay aerial? A couple of seconds, couple of weeks, etc.??? If we have a seismic activity area of x-square miles then where does one such area end and the next begin? I think its prett safe to say the the entire land surface of the planet is represented by one (or _more_) seismic activity areas. Of course, _all_ of this is meaningless until an 'earthlight' is formally defined.... >Aside: Also, interesting was an article I found from the 1930's >in which a "ghost hunter" said he thought most ghost were >caused by magnetic fields effects on the brain. Did the author mention the source of the magnetic field? >> C'mon, I never meant to actually throw them out. Only to pre-screen them >> from a first-run analyses of patterns/trends. >> Does it make sense to include Fred's sighting of a tiny dot of light >> darting around for 30 seconds in the same database as the Cash-Landrum >> event? >Someone's CE could be someone else's NL. Back to Ruppelt and >Michel. Put everything in there and look for patterns. Fine. >You can also do screens. Multiple witness, CE, with CAVU if you >wish. There are people who do throw NLs out. I talked to >Hayden Hewes. When he disposed of his material, that is exactly >what he did. Not that I classify him among the great >investigators of our time, he did accumulate a huge >amount of material when he left the field. You and I are dancing around semantics here. Whether you have one database with lots fields, or one database with many linked tables, or many databases (and/or tables) all joinable is irrelevant. The construction and structure is irrelevant so long as its _all_ electronically available (even the single-witness observations). Once electronically available, you do various screenings. _Here_ is where the biggest bang for the buck might likely be found _not_ looking at single-witness observations. Or not, who knows? >What possible meaningful correlation can we get from_that_ >combination? >It remains to be seen. Exactly. The way to find out is to make separate location analyses, separate time-date analyses, and see if there is a correlation. Fred's sighting and Cash-Landrum have nothing in common on the surface but if they occurred within two hours and 2 miles of each other _then_ they potentially have a lot in common. Cross comparison analyses like that 'justifies' that particular single-witness observation. What I had said previously, perhaps not very well, was that by default multiple-witness observations are highly important, potentially more important than single-witness observations. Or, another way of saying it that single-witness observations are potentially, on the surface, less likely to be important (and more likely to be misidentifications, etc.). So, we don't need to 'justify' multiple-witness observations but we do need to 'justify' single-witness observations for inclusion in a 'final' dataset. In the Fred vs. Cash-Landrum example, Fred's single-witness observation is included in a 'final' dataset because we have a very strong correlation, a tight linkage, to a multiple-witness observation. To continue the example, suppose we have Sammy's single-witness observation. Suppose further we have no multiple-witness observations for (say) 30 days plus or minus and within (say) 500 miles of Sammy's observation. A truly stand-alone single-witness observation. What do we do with that? Nothing, its not promotable. _That's_ what I meant when I (carelessly) used the term "throw away" single-witness observations. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 8 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 12:40:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 19:14:38 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again Vince Johnson writes, about Janet Kimball, one of the witnesses in the Linda case: >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com > Date: Fri, 07 Feb 97 13:24:57 cst > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again > It's this claim of "preventing access" that I find to be > troubling -- and frankly, unbelievable. This woman (assuming the > tale is true) was independent-minded enough to seek out Budd > Hopkins on her own initiative, yet so submissive that her son can > control whom she speaks with. Vince, how many human relationships do you know that are totally consistent? How many unfold directly from first principles, and never deviate from a single pattern? I don't know the dynamic between Janet Kimball and her son. But it's easy enough to imagine something like this: He ridicules her when she tells him what she saw on the Brooklyn Bridge. She finds this difficult, it hurts her, intimidates her. And yet she keeps thinking she should tell someone with some kind of authority about what she saw. Then she sees Budd on TV. That encourages her, and she follows up on it. She makes plans to meet Budd, and even though her son objects, and makes life difficult for her, she goes through with it. But now he's livid. Now he really explodes at her. Now he really hurts and scares her. So she makes an inner bargain with herself. She did what she thought she ought to do, but now, to keep peace, she won't do any more. Sounds completely plausible to me. As for preventing access, I don't think we're talking about anything as serious as blocking her from using the phone. One question here is how urgently Budd has ever worked to contact her. As I understand it, he's left messages for her to call, and never had them returned. He suspects they're not being passed on to her. Maybe if he'd try harder, he'd get her on the phone herself. It's my project this week to push him on this. But I can also imagine him getting discouraged if she doesn't return his calls, and feeling he shouldn't press her too hard. He might think -- and isn't this reasonable? -- that in the long run, you never know what's going to happpen, but you're going to hurt your chances if you come on too strong with someone who's reticent. For what it's worth, he's like this when he interviews abductees, both under hypnosis and in normal conversation. He's very good about sensing their limits, sensing what they do and don't want to say. He leaves lots of blank time for them to supply information without him asking further questions, and almost never even so much as hints about what he thinks they ought to be thinking or doing. His handling of Janet Kimball would be consistent with that. > In my experience, this purported scenario indicates falsehood -- > just as the host of other "unavailable" eyewitnesses does. Remember that there are other witnesses to parts of the scenario who <are> available. "Francesca," for example, the woman who says she saw the courtyard of Linda's building flooded with light at the time of the alleged abduction...she's available. I've been playing phone tag with her. > Remember, it's the claim that this was an eyewitnessed abduction > that made the Linda case so significant. How can we describe this > as an eyewitnessed abduction if none of the purported > eyewitnesses are even identified? > While you may believe Hopkins is being totally honest, doesn't > this lack of named witnesses (and the assorted excuses concerning > why *all* of them are either "unavailable" -- or in the case of > Perez de Cuellar, flatly denied) strain your credulity just a > bit? No, the lack of witnesses doesn't strain my credulity. The entire case strains my credulity -- and the credulity of many others, in my opinion. The question then is what any of us do about that. I'm wary of a priori arguments, that ones that assert that such-and-such a person would NOT behave in some specified manner. Granted, there are some things we can probably rule out in advance, like Michael Jackson doing significant research into quantum physics (or sustaining a normal marriage), but otherwise I try to keep in mind a wonderful phrase from Murray Gell-Mann, the physicist. He was writing in his book The Quark and the Jaguar about The Skeptical Inquirer, and -- while agreeing with all their conclusions -- found their methods suspect. They try to explain away absolutely everything while in his experience, he says, any complicated matter necessarily leaves loose ends that just don't add up. I had a long private argument over De Cuellar's supposed use -- in letters attributed to him that are part of the case -- of occasional American colloquial terms. He gets one of them wrong. My argument partner insisted that meant the letters are fake, because De Cuellar either wouldn't use such terms, or would get them right. I just throw up my hands. It's easy to invent a scenario in which someone of his background would do what the letters show him doing -- adopting an avuncular, informal tone about Linda, one somewhat at variance from his usual more literary, rather British way of expressing himself, and then slipping on an American idiom he doesn't quite know -- and also to invent one in which he'd never do such a thing. How do I know, short of spending many hours with the man, which scenario is correct? To me, anyone who insists that any a priori view of this question HAS to be right has, to some degree, made up his or her mind in advance. Since I've been looking into this case so closely, I think I feel the lack of corroboration from the most crucial supposed witnesses more keenly than many people who are sure the events in the case can't possibly have happened. I've also found some corroborations that I didn't expect, and found that some of the skeptical arguments about the case (like the matter of the NY Post loading dock) just vanish when they're closely examined. But that doesn't make me jump and assume the case is true. De Cuellar's denial doesn't mean a thing. God, how many of us are in the habit of believing denials of any sort from political figures? I'm not urging any kind of blanket cynicism, or free-form conspiracy theorizing, but when it's alleged that Newt Gingrich lied to Congress or that Clinton encouraged illegal campaign contributions and they deny it, how many of us automatically nod our heads and believe them? Does anybody seriously believe that, if De Cuellar really is an abductee, he'd readily say so, the moment he was publicly asked? For what it's worth, I've talked to Jay Sapir, the UPI reporter who set up the interveiw with De Cuellar at O'Hare airport, which Budd crashed, and describes in the book. Sapir told me two things that aren't in the book. He's interviewed hundreds of important political figures, he says, and never encountered anyone as evasive about anything as De Cuellar was about a simple question, "What do you think about UFOs?" Second, Sapir says he routinely asks that question to political figures he interviews. He asked Reagan, for example, and Gorbachev. Reagan gave a kind of openminded airheaded answer ("Maybe some day we'll learn more about this," or something to that effect), and Gorbachev just laughed. De Cuellar, Sapir says, is the only political figure who simply jumped over the question, and didn't acknowledge it in any way. Significant? Sapir -- who, unlike almost all of us on this list, has the experience of conducting these interviews -- is certain that it is. If we like, we can put Sapir's reportorial instincts up against De Cuellar's denial. Where does that get us? Not very far. But at least it puts the denial in a different light. Finally, it's easy for any of us to say "this doesn't add up; I smell fakery." But then who's doing the faking? There's one conclusion I've come to after examining the documents (and other materials), hearing Richard and Janet Kimball on tape, and talking to various participants. The hoax, if that's what this is, is more detailed and extensive than anyone thinks, and, correspondingly, harder to account for. Is Budd hoaxing us? You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who knows how disorganized he often is, who'd think he had even the ability to do it, let alone the disposition. Is Linda doing it? Go talk to Gibbs Williams, a psychotherapist who observed her reacting to portions of the case, interviewed her privately, and gave her psychological tests, or to Charles Strozier, who's a MacArthur prize-winning historian and abduction skeptic AND, amazingly enough, a part-time psychoanalyst, and who has also observed her. Both men are convinced that she's telling the truth as she believes it. Do they have to be right? Of course not. But do they know more about Linda than anyone, so far, who suspects her of hoaxing? Obviously. And if she's not behind the hoax, and Budd isn't, who is? This question, in my view, deserves as much attention as the inquiry into whether the events of the case, as reported, can be believed. It's not easy to answer. Greg Sandow Search for other documents from or mentioning: gsandow |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 08:03:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 08:21:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > From: yogi@iadfw.net <Bob Shell responds:> > > Ray says that's the chance Jack took when he sold Ray this video > > and after being told of the problems flatly refused to do it > > over again. I think Ray is pretty disgusted with Jack at this > > point, and the feeling may be mutual. Ray's agreement with Jack, > > as I understand it, was not to reveal his name or physical > > location, and he has honored this. I think he will quietly > > be pleased if someone "outs" the old guy. > This is a major change of attitude if true, but we have > been deceived by Ray so many times in the past. It will > be very interesting to see if this video interview will > actually lead us to a living breathing person. If he's > real, someone will recognize him. And if he's not real, > then we can only assume that Ray has orchestrated > another dubious video and tried to past it off as > evidence of something. But unitl we have either the > cameraman or the film then we have proof of nothing. Even those who know Ray and don't like his methodology have admitted that it is unlikely that he is capable of a hoax such as this. However, that doesn't preclude his being drawn into a larger plot concieved by someone else. Ray reminds me of a carnival barker who has a side show of interest. He really doesn't care if the "freak" is real or not, but it's a money maker that he wants to take advantage of for as long as he can. It is probably in his best interest to keep the mystery surrounding the "film" up by giving out as little information as necessary, regardless of whether it is real or not. The statement that Ray has deceived people may be more of a reflection of his ignorance of the genre, and his general lack of concern for verification. He has been quite honest in his statement that all he really wanted to do is make a good return on his investment, and after digging into his business dealings we learn that the investment was really made by someone else who is holding the "film" and all the cards. In business investments, this type of arrangement if fairly common. While I don't agree with his handling of the "film" from my perspective, I think that Ray has probably acted in a predictable manner from his perspective. > > >Now this is weird. I find it hard to believe that Ray didn't have > > >more control over the broadcast in Japan than that. After viewing > > >the video I can see why Bob is having such a hard time generating > > >any interest in it. But hopefully he will find someone to foot > > >the bill and televise it here in the US for the public to see. > > > That's what Ray said. As to how much control he would have over > > broadcast dates, I just don't know. The Fuji Network people may > > have decided to "scoop" the world media on this and intentionally > > misunderstood. If you have had any dealings with Japanese > > businessmen, you will know what I am talking about! > That's sort of curious to me that Ray didn't have > something in his contract with the Japanese that would > reflect an agreed upon date of broadcast, but it's > really not a problem. I can see where this might have > even been a controlled intentional leak by Ray to > generate more interest prior to it being shown here in > the US. It will be interesting to see what happens if > this is shown on TV. Now that the new "video" has been shown, Kiviat will have to find something else to use a "hook" to build his show around. He might still be able to use the "statement", if there is more material that was not show on FUJI-TV, but that might not really be enough. I would suspect that there are enough amateur sleuths out there working on this that the "cameraman" will likely be found if he exists.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 23:18:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 08:20:26 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:05:42 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 14:26:44 -0800 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >> We're taling about something that is concurrent with seismic activity (I > >> think) and probably not much of a precursor to seismic activity so I doubt > >> (I think) it would have predictability value. I'd like to be wrong about > >> that one though. > >Well, if Persinger is correct about the window being six > >months, then it's EUREKA and off to a the scientific study > >of UFO sightings to predict Earthquakes--with huge grants > >from everyone. > How can 6 months be accurate. Your opinion is not the point....Persinger says it is six months. He "believes" it is true as do the guys with the 100 foot diameter--long lasting ball lightning, the antimatter meteors, the natural lasers and the electrified moon dust...They believe it....NOT. The point is if they were convinced that these things cause UFOs, then there _is_ a reason for more study....to increase scientific knowledge....but they don't believe _in_ their own theories. If they believed in them they would be seeking grants or encouraging others to seek grants for further study. Instead we have all these interesting postulated phenomena just going without investigation. Why? Because the theories are simply debunking mechanisms. > We don't even have a mechanism established > for what an earthlight is... > I don't know enough about this to comment in any great detail but I'm not > going to let that stop me just yet. Seismic activity doesn't just happen > in a single spot, like the corner of 4th and Main <grin>. It'll cover a > larger area. It rarely just happens for a second and then not again for a > decade, it spans some longer amount of time. So the basic notion that > there are time and distance windows associated with seismic activity > phenomena isn't entirely stupid. > But what is the phenomenological result of the activity? Are we talking > about energy released/created with mass and luminosity? Ok, that could be > visible and it could transit. How much mass, how much energy, how much > luminosity will all go dorectly into determining _realistically observable_ > time and distance windows. If the seismic event covers say 500 square > miles then its not out of the question to imagine a 500 mile distance > window (plus the distance accounted for by the transit and luminosity > characteristics of the 'earthlight). That doesn't mean that somebody is > seeing something that originated at the other end of the 500 miles <grin>. > Are we talking about relative variations in magnetic field strength, as a > hallucination source, as a phenomenological result of seismic activity? > The requirements are still pretty much the same but the maximum distance > window would be less you'd think because it would likely extend much beyond > the seismic activity area. But that's not right, of course, because we're > talking about a hallucination. (That which causes the hallucination could > be entirely separate from the content thereof.) > Maybe the 'earthlight' generates the necessary relative variation in > ambient magnetic field strength to cause a hallucination <grin>. Now we've > extended the distance window quite a bit. > What about the time window? What amount of mass are we talking about in an > 'earthlight,' how long can it stay aerial? A couple of seconds, couple of > weeks, etc.??? > If we have a seismic activity area of x-square miles then where does one > such area end and the next begin? I think its prett safe to say the the > entire land surface of the planet is represented by one (or _more_) seismic > activity areas. > Of course, _all_ of this is meaningless until an 'earthlight' is formally > defined.... All that you are puzzling over should have occurred to the proponent, and he could and should have figure out a method or methods to test it. Except for one except. The acquisition of new knowledge or testing a theory is not involved here. What is involved is debunking what the proponent feels is paranormal claptrap. All that he has to do is come up with plausible sounding scientific twaddle. It's like soothing a child concerned with monsters under his bed. > >Aside: Also, interesting was an article I found from the 1930's > >in which a "ghost hunter" said he thought most ghost were > >caused by magnetic fields effects on the brain. > Did the author mention the source of the magnetic field? No, it was about a three paragraph newspaper article. Just thought it was interesting. Passed it along to Dr. Bullard. > >> C'mon, I never meant to actually throw them out. Only to pre-screen them > >> from a first-run analyses of patterns/trends. > >> Does it make sense to include Fred's sighting of a tiny dot of light > >> darting around for 30 seconds in the same database as the Cash-Landrum > >> event? > >Someone's CE could be someone else's NL. Back to Ruppelt and > >Michel. Put everything in there and look for patterns. Fine. > >You can also do screens. Multiple witness, CE, with CAVU if you > >wish. There are people who do throw NLs out. I talked to > >Hayden Hewes. When he disposed of his material, that is exactly > >what he did. Not that I classify him among the great > >investigators of our time, he did accumulate a huge > >amount of material when he left the field. > You and I are dancing around semantics here. Respectfully, I think we are doing something more important here: we are sharpening and refining our thoughts on this matter. Of course, we are basically after the same thing, and like you say the apparent disagreement is probably insignificant. > Whether you have one database > with lots fields, or one database with many linked tables, or many > databases (and/or tables) all joinable is irrelevant. The construction and > structure is irrelevant so long as its _all_ electronically available (even > the single-witness observations). > Once electronically available, you do various screenings. _Here_ is where > the biggest bang for the buck might likely be found _not_ looking at > single-witness observations. Or not, who knows? > >What possible meaningful correlation can we get from_that_ > >combination? > >It remains to be seen. > Exactly. The way to find out is to make separate location analyses, > separate time-date analyses, and see if there is a correlation. Fred's > sighting and Cash-Landrum have nothing in common on the surface but if they > occurred within two hours and 2 miles of each other _then_ they > potentially have a lot in common. Cross comparison analyses like that > 'justifies' that particular single-witness observation. Of course, I agree. Michel just tried to connect the dots. Ruppelt did some thinking about looking for straight line trajectories. Things do not always move in straight lines. > What I had said previously, perhaps not very well, was that by default > multiple-witness observations are highly important, potentially more > important than single-witness observations. Or, another way of saying it > that single-witness observations are potentially, on the surface, less > likely to be important (and more likely to be misidentifications, etc.). > So, we don't need to 'justify' multiple-witness observations but we do need > to 'justify' single-witness observations for inclusion in a 'final' dataset. It seem almost obvious that multiple witness cases are superior to single witness cases. The database is not the end. It is the means to an end. I don't care one witness, NL, or whatever. I want data as clean as possible otherwise. Every IFO and hoax removed. With what is left I want a confidence factor(s) for each observation. This is where your single witness cases come in. You have low confidence with them....fine. I want to plot them on a map--electronically would be fine....Then, I want to look at them against geophysical, atmospheric, and other data we have. I want to look at the universe of sightings in 3-space and then run screens and all sorts of tricks to see if anything significant pops out. A scientist from the CSIRO wrote Dr. Condon and suggested that he look at the landing cases and see if there were magnetic deviations in those areas. Since there was a good magnet measurement database and a wide array of sensors, the Australian felt it was a good avenue of investigation. Of course, the Condon committee never did any such thing, it would have been too much like doing regular investigation work. Someone told me the French had tried something like that on the 1954 wave. That's interesting. However, one time is not good enough. > In the Fred vs. Cash-Landrum example, Fred's single-witness observation is > included in a 'final' dataset because we have a very strong correlation, a > tight linkage, to a multiple-witness observation. > To continue the example, suppose we have Sammy's single-witness > observation. Suppose further we have no multiple-witness observations for > (say) 30 days plus or minus and within (say) 500 miles of Sammy's > observation. A truly stand-alone single-witness observation. What do we > do with that? Nothing, its not promotable. I think I answered this above. It is mapped and checked against a dozen or so measured physical data. The case does not have to be linked with other UFO cases. I am not conceding anything here. Actual significant cases may be only 1 in 10,000. That is one of the reasons for the frantic gathering of cases. A very large data base. EME cases tend to be majority one witness sightings. I suspect there is something really important in these cases. I am rather surprised and appalled that more investigations have not been done in this area. I understand what is proposed is rather ambitious undertaking and is probably currently beyond our reach. However, something can be done. So, until more can be done I intend to go on with my collection effort. > _That's_ what I meant when I (carelessly) used the term "throw away" > single-witness observations. I know you were not casually making this statement. Your reasons are sound for the direction you wish to go which may indeed be the correct one. Best regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:24:41 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 11:32:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 08:03:52 -0500 From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > He has been quite honest in his statement that all he > really wanted to do is make a good return on his investment, and after > digging into his business dealings we learn that the investment was > really made by someone else who is holding the "film" and all the > cards. In business investments, this type of arrangement if fairly > common. Welcome to the list Steve, I ask: How do we _know_ someone else is holding the "film" and all the cards? I don't think we _know_ that at all. Unless you know something the rest of us don't. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:02:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:51:21 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:48:03 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.NET >Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >>>Gross electrical stimulation like this, say from >>>lightning bolts or electroconvulsive therapy, scrambles peoples >>>minds. It doesn't produce delicate hallucinations with a complete >>>story line. If that were true, hundreds of people every day having >>>MRI scans in magnetic fields of 20,000 gauss, would be hallucinating >>>alien abductions all over the place. >>No argument there. I don't think theories based on this could apply to >>so-called alien abductions. Maybe they could apply to certain, very >>specific, sightings. >I think the specificity you refer to is the variable structure of >a given "experiencer's" brain. The brain is an impossibly delicate >organ, and it could be that only a very, very small percentage of >the population has the brain structure needed to "register" electric >fields and hallucinate. More research needs to be done on the >temporal lobe. Its possible that the human brain's reaction to the stimulus is a variable factor but probably not the predominant factor. Especially as it may or may not relate to UFO sightings since well over 99% of those who report seeing a UFO _don't_ make munerous (or even more than one) report, or have multiple occurance so far as we know. >I apologize for not following this discussion from the beginning, but >I recommend Albery Budden's "UFOs: Psychic Close Encounters--The >Electromagnetic Indictment" for anyone interested in this. He makes a >strange, powerful argument, although I suspect that the phenomenon >of "signal-linking" is not as widespread as he hypothesizes. Would you happen to have an ISBN for that? Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:03:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:53:37 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:50:31 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >John Powell asks: >> How would her family know if she came 'forward' privately? >Lots of assumptions here. One is that she wants to come forward, and is >being restrained against her will, somehow, by her family. Another is >that she'd go behind her family's back. Well, the previous consideration, living at her son's, does present possible problems for _him_ (which could present possible problems for her). >From what I hear, she has a relationship with them. That is, they talk >about things. And the family, particularly her son, has influenced her, >or made her anxious not to displease them. _Very_ delicately phrased <grin>. >Two things, though. I'm as anxious to talk to her as anyone else >checking on the case would be. And while I have her phone number, I've >agreed not to call her, at Budd's request. He didn't even mean to give >me the number...long story, but I have it, and I have to honor his wish. >I think <he> should call and put the matter to her forcefully. Whether >he feels the same might be another question. Yep, he should call her. Or, maybe he should call her just to ask if he could call her son. >Second, as I said before, we're making a mistake if we assume she feels >the same responsibility to UFO research that some of us do. She feels >she's done her part. If anything would influence her, my guess would be >this: She'd have to see Budd strongly attacked on TV, with specific >reference to his failure to produce the key witnesses. Then she might >feel some personal interest in restoring his credibility. >Anyone want to arrange that? <grinning, but I'm also serious....> Given the situation as you've presented it I think things should get worked between mother and son first. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 6 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:29:36 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:48:55 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 6 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 6 February 9, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor FIVE UFOs OVER GULF COAST On Wednesday, February 5, 1997, at 11:30 p.m., motorists driving north on Texas Highway 36 from Brazoria (population 3,025) spotted a formation of five circular red lights in the sky. One of the motorists was the husband of Nancy Marcum, South Texas regional director of Skywatch, International. Mrs. Marcum has provided a detailed summary of her husband's sighting. "He said from this distance they looked about tree (top) level as he was coming closer to West Columbia (population 4,109)." The UFOs passed directly over the Marcum vehicle, and he estimated "that they were about a thousand feet up. I told him I didn't know how high a thousand would be, so he said about three radio towers high." Mrs. Marcum provided a schematic of the UFO formation. This is what it looked like. 0 0 0 0 0 "If you were to number each 0 as a (red) light, the one to the far right, he said, was the tail end of the formation. The red lights all came on (blinking) in random order--no two would be on at the same time. Say, the flashes were a second apart." Mr. Marcum reported that, heading north out of Brazoria, the formation approached from "the left hand side of the road" (the west) "over to the right hand side of the road" (the east) and on (southward) to Bailey's Prairie or Angelton or maybe the Lake Jackson area. He said the lights were all at the same level, and they were spread apart more than a football-field length would be." "I asked him if he could make out the shape of the objects," Mrs. Marcum said, "and he said all he could see were the lights. At one point, he described them (the lights) as coming out of a cone-shaped area. He was all wound up because he thinks this UFO stuff is a bunch of hooey. But now he's wondering just what it was he saw. The guy in the car behind him ran off the road. He doesn't know if it was because he slowed down to stare at the objects, or if the guy beside him also saw the objects." (Many thanks to Nancy Marcum for this story.) MYSTERY BOOM IN OREGON On Tuesday, February 4, 1997, at 6:15 p.m., a mysterious "skyquake" or booming sound rocked homes and farms in southern Oregon. The sound was also heard as far north as Port Townsend, Washington, on Puget Sound. At 6:15 p.m., observers in Cave Junction, Oregon (population 600) spotted "a bright object or meteor" shooting across the sky. The object first appeared south of Pearsoll Peak (elevation 5091 feet) and flew in a northeasterly direction, across the Illinois River toward Kerby Butte (elevation 5555 feet). The boom and resulting shock wave then rattled homes in Cave Junction, Kerby, Selma and the city of Grants Pass (population 15,000). The Josephine County Sheriff's Department received hundreds of phone calls from area residents immediately after the "explosion." The sheriff's dispatcher phoned the Federal Aviation Administration office in Portland and was reportedly told that the Oregon Air National Guard had "a high-performance aircraft" operating in the area. Witness John E. Mingo reported, "The sonic boom was before 7 p.m. I have heard sonic booms before but this one rocked everything. The boom shook windows from one end of the city (Grants Pass) to the other. Local radio reported that it was a routine military flight up the coast. They say the boom was felt from southern Oregon all the way to Seattle." That is, a distance of about 500 miles (800 kilometers). Another witness, who asked to remain anonymous, said he heard "two aircraft go supersonic" right after "the object" passed over Josephine County. "The direction of these aircraft is unknown because they were not showing their running lights. I know the sound of supersonic flight from previous military experience." Mark S. of Whidbey Island, Washington disputed the news reports that the boom was caused by an SR-71 reconnaissance plane, pointing out that only three are still in service and none are known to be in the Pacific Northwest. Mark said he believes the "supersonics" to be F/A-18 interceptors from Bremerton, Washington. (Unsolicited Email) (Editor's Note: Grants Pass and adjacent Josephine County towns were the site of a still-unexplained UFO flap on May 27, 1949. It's listed as Case #404 in Project Blue Book.) UFOs SEEN IN WEST INDIES On Thursday night, January 30, 1997, at 10:33 p.m., Joseph Michaels was walking a beach on the north shore of Antigua, an island in the West Indies, when he suddenly spotted "a strange streak" in the sky. "Object came from the northeast as a short streak of white light," Michaels reported. "I thought it was a shooting star. About five to ten seconds later, it entered a very good, very controlled stationary flash which lasted about 0.25 ms (milliseconds) per flash." Michaels counted six distinct flashes "in random order and with a definite break in between each one." While looking up, expecting to see number seven, instead he saw a second "streak" flying in a west-southwesterly direction. The second UFO was also flashing "at 0.25 ms, and traveling at that speed produced a streak (or contrail) 10 to 12 miles long." He estimated that the flashing objects were at "flight level 600," i.e. 60,000 feet (18,182 meters). (Many thanks to the Lost Tribe for this story.) (Editor's Comment: Just to satisfy my curiosity, I plotted the flight paths of both the West Columbia and the Antigua UFOs on a map of the Caribbean. The two lines intersected at about latitude 13 North, longitude 81 West, or an island called Isla da Providencia, owned by Colombia. Let's wait and see if there are any more sightings from that area.) BRAZIL'S UFO CROP CIRCLES Brazilian ufologists are investigating two crop circles that appeared in 1996, according to the magazine Revista UFO for November 1996. The first one appeared the night of April 17, 1996, behind a small church in Bairro Guama near Belem. Eyewitnesses told the Policia Civil that they saw a strange light behind the church at first. Then, as they entered the churchyard, "um estranho objeto sobrevoando o ceu da cidade" (a strange object flew over them into the city sky.) According to an eyewitness, Alfredo de Oliveira Montes, 27, of Bairro Guama, the UFO left behind a scorched circle measuring 10 meters (33 feet) in diameter. Two months later, on June 16, 1996, Senhor Francischini, supervisor of the Fazenda (farm) Areia Branca, located in Ipigua, near the city of Sao Jose do Rio Preto in Sao Paulo state, while planting oranges spotted a bright yellow light above the grove. Upon investigation, Francischini and his farmworkers discovered a crop circle measuring 10 meters (33 feet). The case is now being investigated by CEPEX. (Many thanks to Ademar J. Gevaerd for sending me that copy of Revista UFO.) USAF: TELSTAR STILL IN ORBIT A spokeswoman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) in Colorado denies that satellite Telstar 401 has been removed from its geostationary orbit over the 97th meridian west. In an interview with Mike Lindemann, editor of CNI News, on Monday, February 3, 1997, Frankie Webster, assistant to NORAD public information officer Major Steve Boylan, said the Combat Operations Center was still tracking the crippled satellite on radar. Telstar 401 lost all power on January 11, several hours after a "solar tsunami'" struck the Earth. A report circulating last week claimed that the communications satellite had been "approached by a mysterious object" and had then "vanished." Ms. Webster reportedly said that no object had been detected near Telstar 401 by NORAD radar. She also told Mike Lindemann that there was no officer named "Major General John Yancy, USAF" at NORAD. The "missing Telstar 401" email reportedly originated with Stanton T. Friedman, one of the country's most highly respected ufologists and author of CRASH at CORONA and OPERATION MAJIC. However, on Thursday, February 6, Mr. Friedman denied sending the message, claiming, "I did not send a fax about Tel Star to Art Bell." It appears that the Telstar 401 story was a deliberate hoax by persons unknown. (Editor's Comment: Put Telstar on the shelf with the Huntsville, Alabama landing and the three non-existent UFOs of Medford, Oregon as classic Internet hoaxes.) SOHO PHOTO SHOWS ANOMALOUS OBJECT ABOVE THE SUN The Solar and Heliostropic Observatory (SOHO), a satellite jointly operated by NASA and the European Space Agency photographed the recent solar tsunami, which erupted from the sun on January 6, 1997. SOHO is parked in orbit one million kilometers (600,000 miles) in front of the Earth and positioned so that it always has the sun under observation. On January 7, SOHO photographed the giant, magnetically-charged cloud as it raced across space at one million miles per hour. On January 10, the cloud struck Earth's magnetic field, delivering a charge of one million amps. According to the February 1, 1997 issue of Science News, page 68, "SAMPEX, a satellite 600 kilometers above the Earth, recorded a boost in the intensity of fast electrons--those with energies greater than one million electron-volts--to raise them 10,000 times the typed value in the (Van Allen) radiation belt...The intensity of high-energy electrons near Earth climbed higher yet, and the total amount of energy dissipated in auroras over the North and South Poles reached 1,400 gigawatts, nearly double the electric power generated in the United States." The SOHO photo shows the solar tsunami as "a white ring" at the bottom of the image. However, the photo also shows a very bright object, lozenge- shaped and much brighter than the stars, directly above the sun at a twelve o'clock position. The photo was published in the February 3, 1997 issue of Aviation Week and Space Technology on page 68. Also, Halley Bay research station in Antarctica lost radio contact with incoming aircraft on January 10 and January 11 as a result of the magnetic storm. ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA: Or, cleaning up some goofs in recent issues. Derrel Sims is a Texas hypnotherapist and not "an Israeli ufologist," as reported. Also, Jennifer Jarvis is the Southern Ontario Working Group Coordinator for CSETI and is not a "member of MUFON Ontario." ISRAELI ALIEN "JUST A LIZARD" On December 21, 1996, Mrs. Zyona Damti, 34, of Achihod, Israel discovered the remains of a creature 30 centimeters long on her kibbutz dairy farm. Most of the remains were sent to Technion University in Haifa for analysis, which labeled the material "cow manure" and promptly threw it out. However, Israeli ufologists Debby Segal and Uriya Shai, representing the Damti family, retained a small sample of the "alien." On January 15, they turned their sample over to the British UFO Research Association (BUFORA), which made arrangements to have the material tested at a lab in Manchester, England. On January 29, lab director Keith Hall announced the results of the analysis. The team used mass spectrometers to determine the carbon and nitrogen "signatures" of the material. The signatures, Hall said, "were well within terrestrial limits" and "very close to those expected from lizards and frogs." BUFORA has expressed satisfaction with the test results and has identified the Achichod "alien" as most likely an embryonic lizard. (Editor's Comment: A question still unanswered is why the Technion Institute, whose scientists are presumably as competent in the use of mass spectrometers as Mr. Hall's team, identified the bulk remains of the lizard as "cow manure?") FUN UFO WEBSITES: Patrick Weatherford provides complete coverage of the UFO situation in Arkansas at his site, located at http://www.angelfire.com/ar/TheArkansas/Sky. Mrs. John Alexander's UFO Religious Survey can be found at http://www.accessnv.com/NIDS The Ummites have their own page, too. Log in at http://www.efrei.fr/~loporto/articles/UMMO_FR.HTML Don't miss our parent page--UFO INFO, They're at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm And, for past issues of UFO ROUNDUP, drop in at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts That's it for this week. To our readers in China, Taiwan and Singapore...Happy New Year! May the Year of the Ox Bring Blessings and Prosperity! Best wishes from "the paper that goes home... UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any stories from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and the editor by name and list the date of the newsletter in which the story appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 12:05:09 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:55:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > From: XianneKei@aol.com > Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:24:41 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Rebecca, > > He has been quite honest in his statement that all he > > really wanted to do is make a good return on his investment, and after > > digging into his business dealings we learn that the investment was > > really made by someone else who is holding the "film" and all the > > cards. In business investments, this type of arrangement if fairly > > common. > Welcome to the list Steve, > I ask: How do we _know_ someone else is holding the "film" and all the cards? > I don't think we _know_ that at all. Unless you know something the rest of us > don't. Well, we have Ray's word. ;) Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: The Linda Case -- again From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:02:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:52:29 -0500 Subject: Re: The Linda Case -- again >Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 10:13:52 -0500 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The Linda Case -- again >John Powell asks, about Janet Kimball, one of the supposed witnesses in >the Linda case: >> Who is this "her family" that would be outraged [if she came forward]? >> Husband, father, mother? >Primarily her son. She lives with him, and currently he seems to be >preventing access to her. Where was he when she was galivanting around NYC at 2:00am <grin>??? I can see a lot of possible problems with that situation, too bad. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 11:59:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:50:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 08:03:52 -0500 > From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Steven, > > This is a major change of attitude if true, but we have > > been deceived by Ray so many times in the past. It will > > be very interesting to see if this video interview will > > actually lead us to a living breathing person. If he's > > real, someone will recognize him. And if he's not real, > > then we can only assume that Ray has orchestrated > > another dubious video and tried to past it off as > > evidence of something. But unitl we have either the > > cameraman or the film then we have proof of nothing. > Even those who know Ray and don't like his methodology have admitted > that it is unlikely that he is capable of a hoax such as this. However, > that doesn't preclude his being drawn into a larger plot concieved by > someone else. Ray reminds me of a carnival barker who has a side show > of interest. He really doesn't care if the "freak" is real or not, but > it's a money maker that he wants to take advantage of for as long as he > can. It is probably in his best interest to keep the mystery > surrounding the "film" up by giving out as little information as > necessary, regardless of whether it is real or not. Well, all I can say is that people's perceptions of someone can be wrong. And even though Ray has sometimes come across as a bufoon in TV interviews and such...I would not underestimate his involvement. I personally think he is right in the middle of this. And unless it is proved otherwise he alone is responsible for the entire fiasco. It has been Ray who has made all the claims about an alleged Alien Autopsy and this ex-military cameraman. We have NO FILM to test. We have NO CAMERAMAN to interview. All we have are Ray's word and 2 dubious videos that are proof of nothing. I think it's naive to think Ray is an innocent patsy in this. > The statement that Ray has deceived people may be more of a reflection > of his ignorance of the genre, and his general lack of concern for > verification. He has been quite honest in his statement that all he > really wanted to do is make a good return on his investment, and after > digging into his business dealings we learn that the investment was > really made by someone else who is holding the "film" and all the > cards. In business investments, this type of arrangement if fairly > common. In my opinion Ray HAS deliberately deceived us on many occasions. And Ray's claim that a foreign investor is holding the film has not been proven either. We don't even know if there is a film. For all we know Ray is using this alleged partner to try and obfuscate his own involvement. There is not one thing in this entire story that doesn't revolve directly around Ray. > While I don't agree with his handling of the "film" from my perspective, > I think that Ray has probably acted in a predictable manner from his > perspective. I can't disagree with that. ;) > > That's sort of curious to me that Ray didn't have > > something in his contract with the Japanese that would > > reflect an agreed upon date of broadcast, but it's > > really not a problem. I can see where this might have > > even been a controlled intentional leak by Ray to > > generate more interest prior to it being shown here in > > the US. It will be interesting to see what happens if > > this is shown on TV. > Now that the new "video" has been shown, Kiviat will have to find > something else to use a "hook" to build his show around. He might still > be able to use the "statement", if there is more material that was not > show on FUJI-TV, but that might not really be enough. I believe there were 25 questions submitted originally by Bob Kiviat. The Japanese used 12 in their presentaion so there might be a few more we haven't seen or heard in the can. I'd be real surprised if we learn anything new even if there are more questions and answers in the Kiviat version (if it ever happens). The ones we've heard and read about from the Japanese show were vague and unrevealing. > I would suspect that there are enough amateur sleuths out there working > on this that the "cameraman" will likely be found if he exists. But the alleged cameraman must exist and on that point I have my doubts. I think the man in the video is an actor. What do you think? Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:13:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:57:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? Regarding... >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:42:16 -0500 (EST) >Subject: IS "DR." LEE SHARGEL REAL -- OR A REAL PROBLEM? Rebecca posted the CNI News feature which said: >CNI News interviewed Bob Brown by phone on Friday, January 24 >Brown: "This is our concern. It's not our job to put an absolute stamp of >approval on everyone that we bring to an open forum. However, when >somebody is so blatantly questionable as Shargel is at this point, we feel >the need to urge people to be cautious and use some discernment." It's an insightful statement and seems to answer the question of why Lee Shargel is being singled out. The problem is not that Lee Shargel's claimed credentials may be bogus, or that his stories may be fictitious, or that his photographic material may be fabricated, it's simply because it's all so blatant. >Lindemann: "If he is legitimate NASA, or has any legitimate government >affiliation, and is clearly putting out incorrect information, then we >would have to say that he is performing disinformation, by definition." >Brown: "I would agree." The deduction is understandable, but this reasoning doesn't seem to have been applied before Shargel's appearance on the scene. Belief in the reality of contact with an alien presence generally assumes a consequential cover-up of some magnitude. Yet, it's a paradox that anyone who has a background in the intelligence/military community and who has the most extraordinary tales to tell, seems to be welcomed with open arms, their motives unquestioned. Bob Dean, Virgil Armstrong, Clifford Stone, Wendelle Stevens, and a number of others, come into that category. Bob Dean assures that, "I have knowledge of enormous - gigantic - subterranean bases ...and I can tell you that I do know that in those bases there is contact with one group of these extraterrestrial beings", Armstrong confirms he knows of "at least a dozen crash retrievals involving bodies and survivors besides Roswell", Stone follows the story line of the John Lear and Bill Cooper mythology and Stevens' anecdotes seem to have no limitations. By the above reasoning, if these claims are "factually challenged", consequently, the UFO community has been infiltrated and fed disinformation on a massive scale. But they are factually challenged, and yet Bob Dean was embraced as a conference speaker and Wendelle Stevens is a member of the committee which passed judgement on Lee Shargel. What exactly is the criteria being applied here? >CNI News comments: "...it is clearly Dr. Shargel's responsibility to >substantiate both his presumed credentials and his seemingly incredible >claims, and we hope he will do so without delay". Absolutely. A comparison could be made with Bob Lazar, who, some 7 years later, still can't substantiate either his credentials or his similarly incredible claims! Indeed, has anyone EVER substantiated such incredible claims. It's a rhetorical question. Although the scepticism shown towards Lee Shargel must be welcome and defining standards of acceptable evidence is possibly long overdue, perhaps the _real problem_ highlighted by this issue is who defines the standards, what exactly are those standards and how consistent are they. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:03:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:54:40 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 23:18:55 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >> >Well, if Persinger is correct about the window being six >> >months, then it's EUREKA and off to a the scientific study >> >of UFO sightings to predict Earthquakes--with huge grants >> >from everyone. >> How can 6 months be accurate. >Your opinion is not the point....Persinger says it is six months. He >"believes" it is true as do the guys with the 100 foot diameter--long >lasting ball lightning, the antimatter meteors, the natural lasers and >the electrified moon dust...They believe it....NOT. The point is if they >were convinced that these things cause UFOs, then there _is_ a reason >for more study....to increase scientific knowledge....but they don't >believe _in_ their own theories. If they believed in them they would be >seeking grants or encouraging others to seek grants for further study. >Instead we have all these interesting postulated phenomena just going >without investigation. Why? Because the theories are simply debunking >mechanisms. No argument there. Well, a minor argument, in that grant money for such research is likely to amount to much if it was forthcoming at all, so maybe they don't bother. >> Of course, _all_ of this is meaningless until an 'earthlight' is formally >> defined.... >All that you are puzzling over should have occurred to the proponent, >and he could and should have figure out a method or methods to test it. Yep. >Except for one except. The acquisition of new knowledge or testing a >theory is not involved here. What is involved is debunking what the >proponent feels is paranormal claptrap. All that he has to do is come up >with plausible sounding scientific twaddle. It's like soothing a child >concerned with monsters under his bed. Hahahaha!!!! I'm going to nitpick for a moment. I don't think its as much about debunking "paranormal claptrap" as it is about maintaining the status quo, and the debunking serves to maintain the status quo. In the last decade or so dowsing and ESP (to certain extents) have been established as genuine phenomena, stigmata has been demonstrated to be a genuine phenomena, and we know about ball lightning (but can't catch it in a bottle just yet) and we know (more or less) about various atmospheric/meteorological 'causes' of genuine crop circles. Stigmata, dowsing and the laboratory version of ESP all pretty clearly indicate that we (humans, human consciousness) are _more_ than we think we are. I think that both bothers and scares a lot of folks, they'd prefer things to remain pretty much as they are and _ignore_ the potentially positive growth/change directions inherent in pursuing these 'new' capabilities. >> You and I are dancing around semantics here. >Respectfully, I think we are doing something more important here: we are >sharpening and refining our thoughts on this matter. Of course, we are >basically after the same thing, and like you say the apparent >disagreement is probably insignificant. I don't think we actually have a disagreement, just some variations in semantics <grin>. >> Exactly. The way to find out is to make separate location analyses, >> separate time-date analyses, and see if there is a correlation. Fred's >> sighting and Cash-Landrum have nothing in common on the surface but if they >> occurred within two hours and 2 miles of each other _then_ they >> potentially have a lot in common. Cross comparison analyses like that >> 'justifies' that particular single-witness observation. >Of course, I agree. Michel just tried to connect the dots. Ruppelt did >some thinking about looking for straight line trajectories. Things do >not always move in straight lines. There's no reason why we expect straight-line connect-the-dots. Especially since we have a full 360 degree observation area assuming the observer is on the ground and that which is being observed is aerial. I'm happy just to have reasonable concurrance in time/area with reasonable concurrance (or no concurrance as oppossed to disagreement in details) in detail. >> What I had said previously, perhaps not very well, was that by default >> multiple-witness observations are highly important, potentially more >> important than single-witness observations. Or, another way of saying it >> that single-witness observations are potentially, on the surface, less >> likely to be important (and more likely to be misidentifications, etc.). >> So, we don't need to 'justify' multiple-witness observations but we do need >> to 'justify' single-witness observations for inclusion in a 'final' >> dataset. >It seem almost obvious that multiple witness cases are superior to single >witness cases. It seems obvious but I think we should be cautious of that obviousness. For one thing we have official Tactical Deception possibilities which would likely be designed to be large-scale. Also, and I'm not really sure how this could be done, but it would be real nice if we could add some value to the multiple-witness assumption. For instance, 5 multiple-independent-witnesses in a major metropolitan suburb versus 5 multiple-independent-witnesses in a rural area. >The database is not the end. It is the means to an end. I don't care >one witness, NL, or whatever. I want data as clean as possible >otherwise. Every IFO and hoax removed. With what is left I want a >confidence factor(s) for each observation. This is where your single >witness cases come in. You have low confidence with them....fine. I >want to plot them on a map--electronically would be fine....Then, I want >to look at them against geophysical, atmospheric, and other data we have. I don't know exactly how to do this, and I'm having a problem articulating it as well <grin>, but the notion of 'justifying' a single-witness observation via linking it to another (slightly removed in time/area) single- or multiple-witness observation is really a way of adding that confidence factor you're talking about. We assume that single-witness observations are more likely to be misidentifications and hoaxes. We assume the opposite of multiple-witness observations. The promotion-through-linkage method (I think) narrows the possibilities. >I want to look at the universe of sightings in 3-space and then run >screens and all sorts of tricks to see if anything significant pops out. Cool, me too. I haven't figured out yet how to plot a time sequence (in motion) yet. I may have to write a program. I'd like to be able to sow motion in time of events in grouped areas. >A scientist from the CSIRO wrote Dr. Condon and suggested that he look at >the landing cases and see if there were magnetic deviations in those >areas. Since there was a good magnet measurement database and a wide >array of sensors, the Australian felt it was a good avenue of >investigation. Of course, the Condon committee never did any such thing, >it would have been too much like doing regular investigation work. Sounds like an excellent idea to me. >> In the Fred vs. Cash-Landrum example, Fred's single-witness observation is >> included in a 'final' dataset because we have a very strong correlation, a >> tight linkage, to a multiple-witness observation. >> To continue the example, suppose we have Sammy's single-witness >> observation. Suppose further we have no multiple-witness observations for >> (say) 30 days plus or minus and within (say) 500 miles of Sammy's >> observation. A truly stand-alone single-witness observation. What do we >> do with that? Nothing, its not promotable. >I think I answered this above. It is mapped and checked against a dozen >or so measured physical data. The case does not have to be linked with >other UFO cases. I am not conceding anything here. Hahaha!! (You don't have to concede anything <grin>.) > Actual significant >cases may be only 1 in 10,000. That is one of the reasons for the >frantic gathering of cases. A very large data base. Sure, the larger the initial pool of data the better the chances of linkage to promote weaker observations, which simply means a better chance of a clear picture. >EME cases tend to be majority one witness sightings. I suspect there is >something really important in these cases. I am rather surprised and >appalled that more investigations have not been done in this area. This would be a near-top-of-list item to cross correlate. Time/area linkage to other events might 'promote' many of them. I think that could be very important. >I understand what is proposed is rather ambitious undertaking and is >probably currently beyond our reach. However, something can be done. >So, until more can be done I intend to go on with my collection effort. I don't think its beyond our reach Jan. If the data we're talking about exists, and if it existed on my PC right now, I could do more analyses than I'm even aware of at this moment. Some of us already have the hardware and software for this. Some of us have some experience in this. Its just a matter of getting the data (online, formatted, etc.). When Don Allen and I did the data from Vallee's _Passport to Magonia_ Don spent _TONS_ of hours, over something like several months, getting just the _text_ data online. If was a rather sizeable human effort to get that stuff scanned and edited and the net result (not to minimize the effort) was merely converting what you see in the book into the identical thing on your screen - text paragraphs (about 1,000 of them). I think this is the hardest part of any such project (probably Dan Wright has a similar experience regarding the Abduction project he did). We decided early on that just getting that text online was going to be hard enough so we didn't attempt any formatting in step one. After that I ended up writing software to read the text data - paragraph, line and word at a time - and extract (and format) the actual data that went into the database. The second most time-consuming part (not counting tweaking the pretty output graphs) was validating the accuracy of the text-to-data conversion. Anyway, this is merely a time and data acquisition problem <grin>. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 9 More 'Mack and Hopkins in Boston on March 7' From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 18:22:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:56:54 -0500 Subject: More 'Mack and Hopkins in Boston on March 7' Hello Steve, A brief message to let you know that I have put details of the conference on my web site "UFOINFO" - I have a section specifically for UFO Conferences and welcome any additions. If you are involved with any future conferences, no matter how large or small, please do not hesitate to contact me. I am also willing to add entries for local UFO group meetings should anyone want. Best wishes, John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 10 Budden's UFOs: Psychic Close Encounters-- From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:29:41 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:38:28 -0500 Subject: Budden's UFOs: Psychic Close Encounters-- >>I apologize for not following this discussion from the beginning, but >>I recommend Albery Budden's "UFOs: Psychic Close Encounters--The >>Electromagnetic Indictment" for anyone interested in this. He makes a >>strange, powerful argument, although I suspect that the phenomenon >>of "signal-linking" is not as widespread as he hypothesizes. >Would you happen to have an ISBN for that? Sure--0713724218. Enjoy! --Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 10 Smith/Sarbacher Clarifications From: Grant Robert Cameron <gcameron@cc.umanitoba.ca> Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 18:59:10 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:37:23 -0500 Subject: Smith/Sarbacher Clarifications Over the past few days there have been a number of posts related to the relationship between Wilbert Smith and Robert Sarbacher. There have in these posts been discussions about Smith's Project Magnet. Here are some items that I wish to add. These can be found in " UFOs, MJ-12 , and the Government " which I co-authored with Scott Crain. All the documents I will quote are also founds there. The material covers 20-30 pages. To fully understand the relationship between Smith and Sarbacher it is important to know that when Smith was ill with stomach cancer, he made sure that his files would be hidden from the government after his death. If it had not been for this no one would ever have heard of Sarbacher because it was in Smith's files that Arthur Bray discovered the handwritten notes describing the meeting with Sarbacher. The files contain a number of other documents that are never discussed. All this was pointed out to Mr. Allen in the late 80s by myself, and yet he chose to write an article that agreed with his flat earth vision of things. I am sad to see that at this late date I am forced to re-hash this whole thing. The Top Secret Smith Memo was stamped Top Secret by Smith. Place yourself in his position. You have just been to Washington where you have been told of a " new " area of research that is considered by the U.S. to be its most highly classified subject. You prepare a memo to pass this information on to the top of your department ( Edward who was the deputy minister of Transport ). Are you going to send it unclassified so that everyone in the department can read it on the way up? The classification given by Smith was appropriate. It limited the number of people who were in on the possible new development. Dr. Millman of Second Storey fame, for example, told me he had never seen the Top Secret Smith memo. If you read all the documents in the file (that the top secret memo is from) you will see that they are all found with handwritten notations on the top. This is nothing out of the ordinary. Note also that DMA also puts a notation on the documents concurring. ( I used to know who that was) Most importantly for those who believe that the document shouldn't have been Top Secret - please explain why it remained Top Secret until 1969, and at that point wasn't even declassified. There was found in Smith's file a second Top Secret memo requesting Edwards to obtain clearance for Smith to talk with US authorities about the subject. This was because Sarbacher had told him he had to be cleared to get further information. Dr. Solandt, who was head of the Defense Research Board, and the one who questioned the Top Secret marking on the Smith memo, admitted in writing that Smith's theory was discussed with Vannevar Bush. Therefore it is safe to assume that the clearance went thru' and there are a number of documents that we have not seen. The Top Secret memo asking for clearance is not in government files. Where is it? Where are the documents of discussions with the Canadian Embassy that were found in Smith's files stamped Secret? A quote from one of the documents: " We have three engineers working full time on the program, together with two technicians...Incidentally, our program is now official within the Department of Transport and is know as Project Magnet. It is classified as Secret until we know where we stand..." Is this a bit different than the story told by Allen in his article? He was provided with this material. The Canadian government line is that Project Magnet was some sort of part time project by some misguided employee. Now you know why Smith hid his files, and insisted to his wife that under no circumstances was she to give or lend them to any government agency. ( They did attempt to get them but failed) Smith was responsible for the Canadian government opening up Suffield for a UFO to land in 1954. Where are those documents? Do you thing that these documents would have been anything lower than TOP Secret? IN 1967 the Canadian Defense minister actually admitted most of this story. When I contacted the minister about it, he replied that as hard as he tried, he could not remember who told him the story. There is a lot to the Smith story that has never been written, and none of it makes Smith look like a whacko. Smith ran Radio Ottawa, and therefore was working at a high security level most of the time. One more small point on the Top Secret Memo. Smith had another high level source in Washington besides Sarbacher. In the Top Secret memo you will read that Vannevar Bush headed a small group working on the UFO problem, and that the Americans were every interested in mental phenomena. These items did not come from Sarbacher, as Smith does not include them in his review of the Sarbacher conversation which was " as verbatim as possible." As to Sarbacher. Sarbacher said on a number of occasions that his involvement was very little, but it seems no one wants to believe him. Sarbacher heard first hand accounts from scientists from the R&DB who had gone to Wright field from briefing on a crashed saucer. That's it. The Canadians talked to him probably because they had had dealings with him. Bremner who set up the interview for Smith probably talked to a number of people looking for leads. Sarbacher's office was also just down the street from the Embassy. Sarbacher was not the Head of the Guided Missiles Committee. He was a consultant, and not even that. The head of the committee was Fred Darwin who Crain and I talked to. He told us he had hired Sarbacher, but when Sarbacher didn't come to any meeting, replaced him. Sarbacher was mostly a brilliant inventor who hung around the military offices in Washington looking for programs to consult on. The biggest contributions made by Sarbacher were 1) confirming that there had been a briefing on crashed saucers at Wright Field attended by members of the R&DB 2) identifying Dr. Eric Walker as one of those who attended all the briefings. When William Steinman tracked Dr. Walker down and asked him whether or not he had attended the crashed saucer briefings at Wright Field - Dr. Walker replied " Yes, I attended meetings concerning that subject matter;why do you want to know about that?" Walker is the guy who actually knew what was going on. The fact that Sarbacher brings up the names of Bush, Von Braun etc. is because in the Steinman letter that he is responding to - Steinman gives him a long list of names and asks if any of these people were involved. Sarbacher tries to be helpful but it is a subject he was never involved with, and he trying to think back 35 years.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 10 Real Time UFO Chat room From: Owen Morgan <ddraig@kuntrynet.com> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 22:44:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:40:56 -0500 Subject: Real Time UFO Chat room There is a UFO chat room on IRC (Internet Relay Chat) The Chat room is on Dalnet server The room is #Aliens+ufos, I urge you to check it out. It has only been up for a few weeks so, there might not be much activity If you have any questions about the chat room, please email me. You have to have a special programme for to gain access to irc. This could open you up to a whole new meaning of ufo study. Thank you Owen Morgan ddraig@kuntrynet.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 10 Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 09 Feb 97 21:19:37 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:39:46 -0500 Subject: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to all, and refers to the threads 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' and "TST" (too many messages to quote them all - sorry). Those complaining about the work of Michael Persinger, and Steven John who has been speculating about it, may like to take a gander at the following excerpt from the forthcoming book by Paul Devereux and the Spooky Dook, which answers some of Steven John's queries and fills in some significant omissions from the story Chris Rutowski has been telling. Paul Devereux should be joining the List soon (AOL willing, tee hee), and can fill in much more. (Sue Blackmore, by the way, had a 6-month ME-type illness last winter and has been recovering slowly since. This may explain her lack of communicativeness. Or the Royal Mule could... COPYRIGHT remains with the authors, BTW, but I at least have a pretty liberal attitude to fair use. For the really juicy, new exclusive stuff and amazing pictures, you'll have to buy the book. But here we go with some pertinent history... BEGIN EXTRACT - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Growing Towards the Light Charles Fort was among the first to make the observation that strange "meteors" appeared somewhat coincidentally with earthquakes and tremors. The "first ufologist" had already made a connection between lights in the sky and tectonic activity. It had to wait until the end of the 1960s for ufologists to take the next obvious step and link UFOs with geological fault lines, those areas of tectonic weakness in the Earth's crust. ...John Keel associated the appearance of unusual lights with areas of faulting and magnetic anomaly, as well as with the occurrence of earthquakes, but it was perhaps the French researcher, Ferdinand Lagarde, who most tightly focused in on the UFO-fault connection. In a 1968 article, he presented an initial survey of the French part of the 1954 UFO wave, in which he found that 37 per cent of reported UFO sightings occurred on or in the immediate vicinity of faults, and that 80 per cent of the sighting localities were associated with faults. To counter the argument that "anywhere" can be correlated with faulting, Lagarde compared communes with faults in the same areas:only 3.6 per cent of these fell on faults (or 10.8 per cent if margins of 2.5km were allowed for the faults). Later research showed a 40 percent correlation between reported UFO incidence and fault lines. "UFO sightings occur by preference on geological faults," Lagarde concluded. "It seems as though faults, as such, are not merely the external aspect of an irregularity in the Earth's crust, but are also the scenes of delicate phenomena - piezo-electrical, or electrical, or magnetic, and at times perhaps of gravimetric variation or discontinuity." Although the lights-fault connection was a low-profile topic within ufology for several years, it gradually began to emerge from the shadows. In 1975, Paul Devereux and Andrew York published a two-part article called "Portrait of a Fault Area" in a Fortean journal. In this they surveyed their home county of Leicestershire in the English midlands, geographically and geologically mapping in great detail the occurrences of a wide range of recorded strange phenomena and events over a number of centuries. Both meteorological anomalies ("strange lightning", "balls of fire") and reported UFOs (lights in the sky, disks, spheres and cigar-shaped aerial objects) in the data were found to have had their greatest incidence over the tectonically- active parts of the county. Although this was a relatively crude study, it did suggest that the influences causing the appearance of exceptional meteorological events appeared to be at least partially shared by the phenomena termed "UFOs". In 1977, Michael Persinger, a neuroscientist and geologist at Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario, together with Gyslaine Lafreniere, published Space-Time Transients and Unusual Events in which they described a similar study of the entire area of the United States. While this did not allow for the same kind of detail and individual accuracy obtained by the Devereux-York study, it used more sophisticated analytical methods. Their results indicated that reported UFO phenomena did tend to cluster in areas, supporting Keel's notion of "windows". They also found a correlation between the higher levels of reported UFO activity and the locations of earthquake epicentres. Persinger and Lafreniere concluded that "the data consistently point towards seismic-related sources". They argued that "the existence of man upon a thin shell beneath which mammoth forces constantly operate, cannot be over-emphasized". Persinger and Lafreniere saw the interaction between stellar and planetary influences and the Earth's own processes as possibly providing the energy "motor" that could generate light phenomena. While this interaction would affect the whole planet, Persinger and Lafreniere reasoned that it would result in outbreaks of lights and other unusual phenomena only in those locations where geological stresses were in a state of tension - primed to be triggered, so to speak. (Tectonic stress waxes and wanes in many places on the Earth's crust every day, producing many small, often imperceptible tremors which only occasionally escalate into major earthquakes.) These researchers visualised fields of forces operating evenly and quietly over very large geographical regions which could become focused at any given time in a few small areas of particular geological resistance or instability such as fault lines, ore bodies or mineral deposits, stubborn rock outcrops, hills, mountains, volcanoes and so on. They likened this to the energies in the atmosphere being equally capable of producing a gentle breeze over a wide area or a localised ferocity like a tornado. It had long been noted that unusual lights are often seen around physical projections within an active region. These include features such as mountain peaks and ridges, isolated buildings and church towers or spires, prominent rock outcrops, and transmission towers. Such features are charge collectors, so this obviously supported the assumption of there being an electromagnetic dimension to the lights. Seeking a specific mechanism for the production of anomalous lights, Persinger and Lafreniere opted for a modification of the piezo- electrical effect, which is the term given to the production of electricity in crystals subjected to pressure. They felt that stress accumulating in a seismic area, perhaps over weeks or months, could produce an "electric column" from a few feet to thousands of yards across. The high electric field in such a column could in certain circumstances ionise the air creating glowing shapes. The column would move as the band of stress followed a fault or other line of weakness in the ground. Consequently, any glowing ionised shapes in the column would seem to be moving freely through the air. This was the first outing of what has come to be known as the Tectonic Strain Theory, or TST. In the decades following this work, Persinger, individually and with associates, has maintained a steady stream of research papers exploring the TST explanation in numerous locales within North America as well as in other countries, and he has also studied the possible clinical effects on the human mind and body of close proximity to anomalous light phenomena (see following chapter). The TST has also gradually been updated and refined. Now, for example, piezo-electricity has been joined by other possible mechanisms such as emissions of radon and other gases, and chemoluminescence. Another refinement has been associating the incidence of light phenomena not so much with numbers of quake epicentres, but with the intensity of such tectonic activity. The idea of a "strain field" crossing areas of increasing tectonic stress being the primary cause of light phenomena has stood up well to subsequent analyses, but it is now thought to be possible that there may also be more physical candidates such as underground water moving through fault systems. It is also now recognized that even given the presence of a strain field, extra "triggers" may also be implicated in the occurrence of intense outbreaks of light phenomena. Such triggers could include lunar tides, the passage of air masses and geomagnetic storms - all of which have caused earthquakes. The passage of the moon around our planet, for instance, causes a focal strain field to travel across the Earth's surface at around 1000 km per hour. Passing through a tectonically primed region, this could well set off a spate of luminosities. In 1985, Persinger presented some evidence to support the observation that variations in the Earth's magnetic field would seem to be associated with the appearance of light phenomena, but only in regions where tectonic stress and strain were increasing. In 1990, Persinger put forward further evidence to show that increased global seismicity could be successfully linked with worldwide UFO waves. In the course of the 1980s another important researcher into light phenomena made his appearance - John Derr, a leading U.S. geologist who by then had already been pressing for scientific acceptance of earthquake lights for a decade. In 1986, he joined with Persinger to study a wave of lights that had been reported throughout the 1970s in the Yakima Indian Reservation, Washington State, and especially between 1973-1974. Firewardens positioned in their lookout posts within the reservation saw red-orange and yellow-orange lightballs floating over various locations, such as Goat Rocks. These were quite large, though "ping-pong balls" of light were also seen bounding along Toppenish Ridge and Satus Peak within the reservation. Columns and flares of lights were seen in addition, as were white lights with smaller, multi-coloured lights apparently connected to them. Some lights were complex forms, and some displayed luminous protrusions or "horns". Over the years during which these remarkable sights were observed, there were also unusual meteorological effects such as glowing clouds that fluctuated in brightness. The firewardens organised themselves, and photographs were taken of the lights and triangulated observations using radios were made. The Yakima analysis by Derr and Persinger showed that 78 percent of the reported phenomena were lights seen in the night sky. They were seen most often in the vicinity of the ridges that cut across the reservation - each riddled with faulting - and with Satus Peak, the general area of a surface rupture and one of the stronger earthquakes in the region during the 13 years covered by the study. Successive reporting of lights occurred in the seven months preceding the biggest earthquake of the studied period, in June-July 1975. Regional seismic activity also increased during the times in 1972 and 1976 when most sightings were reported. The investigators took the opportunity to seek evidence for a stress field moving across the area. From June 1976 to March 1977 they noted 21 earthquake-light phenomena cycles, eight of which occurred in the time intervals between quakes located north and south of the sightings, and two more occurred on the days when there were north-south shifts in epicentres. This strongly indicated a moving 'band' of stress within the local geology. In addition to increasing the evidence for an association between outbreaks of lights and earthquake activity (Derr was able to make informal predictions to colleagues of an earthquake around Tennant Creek, Australia, in 1988, for instance, because of the earlier appearance of light phenomena in the district), Derr also made an important discovery regarding the role of liquids moving over or inserted into the Earth's crust near window areas. The liquids could be in the form of flooded rivers carrying much greater volumes of water than usual, the result of civil engineering enterprises such as the creation of new dams and reservoirs, or the high-pressure injection of water or waste liquids into the bedrock. The extra weight of water on the surface can add pressure to the underlying geology, as well as penetrate faults and fissures. Forced injection can cause cracks in rocks to increase and spread, thus shifting internal pressures, in addition to lubricating the surfaces of rocks meeting at a fault, so allowing them to slide more easily over each other. The first case where this connection came to light was an outbreak of UFO sightings in the Uintah Basin in north-east Utah, around the towns of Vernal, Roosevelt and Duchesne, between 1966 and 1968. The main type of phenomenon observed was a large globe of light one witness described as having the golden-amber colour of the harvest moon. It was rarely fully spherical, however, usually appearing as a sort of hemisphere with a flattened bottom. "Rocket" and "cigar" forms were also reported, along with infrequent sightings of metallic-looking disks. Many of the phenomena were observed by multiple witnesses, and some people reported hearing whistling and humming sounds on close encounter. Derr eventually discovered that the injection of waste liquids into the crust had been going on coincident with this wave. This had not been noticed for some time because the the injection work had taken place across the nearby state line in Colorado. In a 1990 paper, Derr and Persinger recorded that the forced injection of waste liquids into the bedrock at Derby, Colorado, triggered some 1500 small earthquakes, and a large increase of reported light phenomena within 100 km of the injection site. Derr and Persinger noted that some process within the Earth's crust, whether a strain field or whatever, diffused away from the site at a rate of 50-100 km per month to distances as far as 300 km. Subsequently, Derr has made numerous other observations of a similar kind. For instance, an analysis of an "epidemic" of light reports in southern Manitoba in 1975 showed a correlation with a strong earthquake in Minnesota near the source of the Red River (which flows into Manitoba). Derr and Persinger were able to show matching patterns between the numbers of reported light phenomena and the varying volume of the Red River. Nature Lends a Hand But it wasn't just this kind of analytical research of earlier cases of light phenomena that moved the light hunters' case along. Circumstances allowed two contemporary field studies of localised outbreaks of lights to be conducted. The first took place around Piedmont in south-west Missouri. The appearance of strange lights of various colours in the early months of 1973 coincided with TV and electrical interference in the area. Lights were seen not only in the sky, but also sitting in fields, hovering near transmitter towers, and even passing beneath the surface of a reservoir. Dr Harley D. Rutledge, a physics professor at Southeast Missouri State University, led field expeditions to the "flap" area, and they took numerous photographs of light phenomena and made useful first-hand observations. The second situation developed in the remote valley of Hessdalen, in a mineral-rich area famed for its mining of copper and other metals, about 70 miles south-east of Trondheim in Norway. For a few years after November, 1981, Hessdalen hosted one of the most remarkable outbreaks of light phenomena ever reported. People living in the isolated farms that straggle through the valley saw lights spring into visibility near rooftops, or hover just above the ground. Mainly, however, lights were seen just below the summits and ridges of the surrounding mountains. The shapes of the light phenomena included spheres, "bullet" forms with pointed end downwards, and inverted "Christmas tree" shapes. Colours were predominanlty white and yellow-white, though other colours were also reported, particularly small, flashing red lights on the top or bottom of larger white forms. Strong, localised white orblue flashes in the sky were also observed. In March, 1982, Norway's leading UFO group, UFO-Norge, became interested, as did the Norwegian defence department, who sent two air force officers to study the situation. (They discovered that people in Hessdalen had been seeing strange lights on and off since 1944.) By the summer of 1983, hundreds of reports of strange lights had been made by the inhabitants of Hessdalen. There were also complaints of curious underground sounds like rumbling trains. The situation had become so intense that Norwegian and Swedish UFO groups combined their resources to form Project Hessdalen. Field operations got under way on 21 January, and ended on 26 February, 1984. During this period a continuous presence of monitors was maintained in the valley, along with a range of instrumentation, including radar, a magnetometer, a spectrum-analyser, geiger counters, and a variety of photographic equipment, including cameras with diffusion filters that could image the spectrum coming from a light source, allowing analysis to determine what elements were present. The project personnel had to work in difficult conditions, with temperatures as low as minus 30 degrees Celsius. The headquarters of the effort was a trailer caravan, high on a ridge, equipped with electrical power. Project Hessdalen succeeded in taking many photographs of strange lights, and they also obtained a number of radar readings that were not " radar angels". In one baffling case, project personnel were watching a bright light cross the sky while the radar received an echo back from it only once every second sweep of the radar beam, yet it gave a steady appearance to the naked eye. A seismograph used for just a part of the field operation had its largest readings coinciding with peaks in sightings, but the cause of the earth tremors were not local to Hessdalen. The magnetometer showed changes in the Earth's field in apparent relationship with about 40 percent of perceived lights. The geiger counters gave no unusual readings, though that could have been due to their distance from any lights. Project Hessdalen conducted further fieldwork in the winters of 1985 and 1986, but it became apparent that the peak of the wave had passed between 1982 and 1984. J. Allen Hynek visited the site in 1985, and was impressed with what he learned about the phenomena there. The Hessdalen phenomenon had massively raised the profile of the whole issue of mystery lightforms. Earth Lights Arrive In 1982, coincident with the onslaught of lights at Hessdalen, Earth Lights, the first book devoted solely to the phenomenon, was published by Paul Devereux. He made an attempt at summarising and clearly identifying what until then had been a somewhat formless, unfocused area of enquiry. He provided the phenomena with the name "earth lights" specifically to identify them as being something other than extraterrestrial. The book reinforced the tectonic connection with the lights by presenting work the author had carried out with geochemist Paul McCartney exploring detailed associations between light phenomena, epicentres and faulting in Great Britain. Even the great UK centre for UFO sightings, Warminster, was shown to lie directly on an isolated fault line, and nearby Cley Hill, frequently the source of orange fireballs, was immediately adjacent to two faults. The following year, Devereux, McCartney and chemist Don Robin brought earth lights to the attention of a broader public through the pages of New Scientist, where they also discussed possible mechanisms within rock that could produce lights, such as piezo-electricity, triboluminescence (light produced by frictional forces), and thermoluminescence (the production of light by heating). An important addition to the earth lights literature appeared in 1985 in the form of Spooklights - A British Survey, by David Clarke and Granville Oldroyd. Among numerous British earth lights haunts superbly documented by these authors was Burton Dassett, a now lonely church on top of an isolated group of hills set in the plain south of Warwick. It was the focus of an intense outbreak of light phenomena in 1922 and 1923. Reporters from the major local newspapers, as well as local people, saw many displays of mysterious lights, nicknamed "the ghost". The reporter from the Birmingham Post, with other onlookers, saw a "steady and vivid" light travelling a few feet above the ground. "Its radiance was such that the sky was faintly illuminated for several miles," he wrote. Clarke and Oldroyd discovered that the church sits directly on the Burton Dassett fault, and that the mysterious light briefly reappeared on the night of 25 January, 1924. That very night, there was a powerful earth tremor in Hereford, a county to the west. This obviously suggests a general tectonic connection of some kind with the Burton Dassett light. The local Leamington Chronicle made just such an asssumption. "Simultaneous with the appearance of the 'ghost' of south Warwickshire comes the report of an earth tremor in the West of England," it noted. In 1989, Devereux's Earth Lights Revelation appeared, a sequel to his first book, in which a much more comprehensive and updated scope of the subject was presented. The book also gave full information on a study by Devereux and McCartney of an "earth lights zone" between Barmouth and Harlech in north-west Wales which had been active in the early years of the century. Because good, contemporary reports had been made of these Welsh lights, Devereux and McCartney found that by conducting thorough map and field research, the locations of quite a number could be mapped with great precision. These detailed positions were then matched with recent geological research in the region, and it was found that the lights followed the course of a major local feature, the deep-rooted Mochras Fault, like beads on a thread. Some of the lights had emerged from the ground directly on the Mochras Fault, and nearly all occurred within a hundred yards or so of that or associated faulting. Indeed, the incidence level increased with proximity to the faulting. (To check if this was a random pattern or not, the investigators conducted a similar study of the St Bride's Bay area of south-west Wales, the focus of a UFO wave in 1977. The results were virtually identical to those obtained around Barmouth.) The Barmouth-Harlech lights outbreak occurred in the midst of a period of unsusual seismicity: between 1892 and 1906 there were several earthquakes in various parts of Wales. In October, 1904, for example, immediately prior to the onset of the Barmouth wave, there was a quake at nearby Bedgellert. Barmouth and Harlech are also adjacent to the Lleyn Peninsula, one of Britain's most active seismic areas, and epicentre in July, 1984, of an earthquake registering 5.5 on the Richter scale. This event brought the lights back briefly to the Barmouth area - the evening before the quake, a resident saw a brilliant white light "the size of a small car" float in from the sea and land just beyond the brow of a grassy dune on the beach. When he rushed over to examine the "landing spot" there was nothing to be seen. The 1980s saw the assembly of a wide range of research into the history of earth lights in early and non-Western cultures. It became abundantly clear that people had come up with explanations for the lights that suited their own cultures and times (see Chapter 1). What is particularly interesting is that throughout old Europe it was thought that veins of copper or other minerals are present where balls of light emerge from the ground. Although such beliefs were dismissed as mere superstition by the mining texts of the eighteenth century, the "Age of Reason", it is a fact that prospecting by means of studying light phenomena was conducted at Bere Alston, an important copper and arsenic mine in Devon, England, until the beginning of the twentieth century. This means that the skills involved in observing earth lights probably died out in the Western world only within the last couple of generations. In the Laboratory As well as field research, historical documentation, statistical analyses, and theory-building, there have also been some laboratory experiments. In 1986, Brian Brady and Glen Rowell of the U.S. Bureau of Mines fractured cores of granite, which has a high quartz content allowing piezo-electric effects, and basalt, containing no piezo- electric crystals. Their fracturing was performed in various gases (air, argon, helium), in a vacuum, and even underwater. Brady and Rowell used a spectroscope linked to image intensifiers to capture the spectra of any fleeting lights that might be produced as the cores broke up. The results were most instructive. Both the granite and the basalt cores produced tiny lights. This challenged the theory that peizo-electricity could be the mechanism producing lights in the landscape. But the biggest surprise was that the spectra of the lights showed no trace of any elements from the rocks, only from the surrounding gas or liquid. Analysis of the spectra of rocks fractured in a vacuum showed only the gases in air (it is impossible to create a perfect vacuum on Earth). The experimenters concluded that "an exolectron excitation of the ambient atmosphere is the mechanism responsible for the light emissions observed under rock fracture". But though there were speculations about the radio fields produced by fracturing rock forming energy 'bottles' to hold the light emissions in spherical and other forms, there was (and still is) no satisfactory way of explaining how earth lights could travel freely in space and maintain specific, defined shapes. There was another unexpected discovery resulting from the experiments. The energy produced by the cores fractured under water made the liquid glow and both atomic and molecular hydrogen was produced. It was realised by the experimenters that such "molecular dissociation" might initiate chemical reactions "of geological and biological interest". John Derr interpreted this as meaning that this process had "implications for biogenesis", or the origins of life. Did earth lights trigger the creation of organic life in the primeval muds of our planet? Are they, in a sense, ancestor lights? [...] No one knows what earth lights actually consist of. Some form of plasma (ionized gas) is assumed, but not a great deal is known about plasmas in any case, and some particularly baffling properties are seemingly possessed by the lights. According to recurring accounts, earth lights seem to be going "on" and "off" very rapidly, they can send their light in one direction only, and they can appear to have mass one moment yet seem weightless at another. The lights seem to hover on the very extremity of physical existence - here one moment, gone the next. Devereux has suggested that they may be macro-quantal events, displaying on our level of perception characteristics that owe something to the fluctuating probability field of the primal, subnuclear quantum sea out of which all energy and matter arise. Hal Puthoff has a suspicion that earth lights may be powered by zero- point energy. David Fryberger is developing a theory which has the lights resulting from a hitherto unknown particle he calls the "vorton", more exotic even than gluons, quarks and the other subatomic entities postulated by nuclear physics. ----------------------------------------------END EXTRACT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Feb 97 11:24:13 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 02:03:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >From the Duke of Spook, greetings. > Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:13:41 -0500 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > The problem is not that Lee Shargel's claimed credentials may be bogus, or > that his stories may be fictitious, or that his photographic material may > be fabricated, it's simply because it's all so blatant. [snip] > Although the scepticism shown towards Lee Shargel must be welcome and > defining standards of acceptable evidence is possibly long overdue, perhaps > the _real problem_ highlighted by this issue is who defines the standards, > what exactly are those standards and how consistent are they. James, your diplomacy knows no bounds, and you are clearly destined for high office. Me and the boys have decided you should be one of us. Your title of "Ptarmigan" will be confirmed in due course by Dr Boylan. Am I the only one to have the thought cross his mind (never a long journey, it is true) that all Lee Shargel is doing is just *taking the piss* and seeing how far he can go putting the mockers on soi-disant ufologists before *finally* someone notices the huge smirk all over his cuckoo-like features? Yours knowingly P. Birdwatcher-Smythe CIA Luncheon Voucher Scheme Honorary Member No: 738472 "If my bow-tie rings while I'm out, don't answer it"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Feb 97 02:59:42 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:59:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory Compliments of the Duke... Errol-- *DEVEREUX* on TST! Despite (because of) your title for the thread, I'd just like to make it clear that I didn't intend anyone to take the just-posted extract from Paul Devereux's and my book to be all my own work. And indeed this chunk was written by Paul. Me? I just work here mate. Peter B "Thus Spook Zarathustra" _______________________________ Peter & Paul (and note, no cute biblical references), My apologies - I wanted to separate Pete's message from the others on the TST topic, rather than give the impression that it was all the Duke's 'own write'. So for readers here who were under the impression that His-self had written this, pay attention and re-read the first part of this post. And then welcome Paul Devereux to the List. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Alfred's Odd Ode #91 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 05:21:26 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 02:01:07 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #91 Apology to MW #91 (For February 10, 1997)=20 Some thoughts on Sam Sheppard A victim of mobs -- Though a person of quality And a man with a job. He killed his wife, the jury said, But no wounds on him discovered. And wife=92s teeth, and nails where left _inside_ Her killer unrecovered! So now we=92re going to *fix* it With _invasive_ science tools. Invade the past with cleverness -- **"We=92ll not be played for fools."** We=92ll judge Sam with *grand* wisdom. Books will doubtlessly be sold. Another TRIAL OF THE CENTURY! A meter master=92s dream of gold. But what=92s it mean to all of us? A man _wronged_ for quick convenience? . . .That there are secrets kept behind closed doors! This does not require genius! The secrets of the *hoary* ages Are kept behind closed portals. What of UFO=92s in the 1800=92s? What they *know* would yank your chortle! "Of course, there=92s nothing that we=92re kept from." "There is no planned conspire." "Government gangs are not running amuck." "Situations are *certainly* not dire. . ." Our planet=92s not sick of humankind=92s presence? We treat one another just as fine as you please? A Dow at 7000 but with _low_ take home wages? There=92s no _plain_ disrespect you can see? "But let=92s keep them all dazzled," the meter man says. "Let=92s keep them on their knees, and looking down." "Let=92s really play up this Sam Sheppard thing." ". . .Keep what goes =91round from _*coming*_ around." And so they will, for some more _little_ time. An avalanche suspended in check. . . But leaks, and spurts of all the weird dirt Are nooses tightening on necks.=20 Sam and his son teach a lesson; A lesson we needed to hear. But we were remiss, when we tried to dismiss That lesson long ago, I fear. Good Christ people. . . our CIA sells its coke to kids cheap. In South America, it=92s _cops_ that are killing scared Jews. Christians bury murdered Moslems in swine waste! And our press -- it just spews what it spews. I hear Sheppard=92s message; I=92ll be wary. But it=92s old, with *implies* not admitted. It=92s a dodge used by shadows to suggest to the sheeple What=92s *inconvenient* should not be commited. I listen to too much NPR, I imagine. The station won=92t stop to sell soap. They won=92t bait you with an interesting, empty tidbit, . . .Wont make you _sit_ through those ads like a dope. Lehmberg@snowhill.com A commercial is hard wired to the channel selector on my TV =96 instant channel change. With a lot of channels, sometimes I never even make it back -- even to "Duckman". And don=92t insult me by saying it=92s the commercials that pay for the channels =96 that=92s just a convenient, and disrespectful writing of the rules by the current meter masters, or so says the Alien View.=20 Oh, btw, did the hot shot producer of the "The Fugitive," series throw Mr. Sheppard a god damned bone?=20 ------=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, charring at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 10 Feb 97 08:40:17 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 02:02:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:13:41 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, I agree with your statements completely. It was refreshing to hear Bob Brown actually making sense about Shargel, but he apparently was forced to do so by Shargel's totally ridiculous presentation. I did not attend this year's conference because I was so disgusted with the quality of presentations last year. And you are absolutely on target to ask why Brown, Stevens, Hesemann, and the other board members have not applied the same standards to blatant charletans like Bob Dean. Dean's presentation last year was only slightly below Shargel's on the scale of the ridiculous. The UFO community HAS been infiltrated with disinformation suppliers. Whether these people are part of an organized effort or just crackpots who have found safe refuge is something which needs to be studied. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Close encounters of the U.S.A.F. kind From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:44:49 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 02:05:45 -0500 Subject: Close encounters of the U.S.A.F. kind There was much discussion a few weeks back on aircraft having near misses. Perhaps this article might answer some of them. This story was covered by CNN too. Drew +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Page A20 of THE TORONTO STAR Saturday February 8, 1997 Fighter jets, airliners in 2 close encounters Incidents prompt military flight suspension WASHINGTON (AP) - Four National Guard fighter jets screamed past a civilian airliner off the coast of Maryland yesterday, the second harrowing incident involving Guard F-16s and airliners in the area in three days. The U.S. Air Force quickly suspended all its flights in restricted areas along the East Coast for a review of rules and operating procedures. At the same time, the Federal Aviation Administration told controllers in Florida, Washington and New York and military controllers in Virginia to review procedures for operations in and around East Coast military areas. The American Eagle turboprop took no special action in yesterday's incident, and no one was hurt. However, two days earlier the pilot of a Nations Air Boeing 727 carrying 77 passengers and seven crew members from San Juan, Puerto Rico to New York had to dive into evasive manoeuvres. Two flight attendants and a passenger were thrown to the cabin floor. In that incident, off New Jersey's coast, a civilian controller following the planes repeatedly expressed concern and asked military controllers to get the Guard plane closest to the 727 to move away. An official of the airline charged that the fighter pilots "screwed up" or "were playing games" during the encounter. But New Jersey National Guard Col. Thomas Griffin said the F-16 pilots simply were trying to identify a plane that shouldn't have been in that sector. The National Transportation Safety Board mobilized investigation teams to look into both incidents. Maj. Gen. Donald Shepperd, director of the Air National Guard, told a Pentagon briefing he considered military aviation "very, very safe," noting that thousands of flights occur each day over the East Coast. In yesterday's incident, the pilot of the American Eagle turboprop, en route from Raleigh Durham in North Carolina to New York's JFK Airport, reported two jet fighters flew above his plane and two below. Shepperd said three fighters passed at least 300 metres above the civilian plane and the fourth, with low fuel levels, was 450 metres below it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:54:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 02:04:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory >Date: 09 Feb 97 21:19:37 EST >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: TST >The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments to all, >and refers to the threads 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' >and "TST" (too many messages to quote them all - sorry). >Those complaining about the work of Michael Persinger, and >Steven John who has been speculating about it, may like to >take a gander at the following excerpt from the forthcoming >book by Paul Devereux and the Spooky Dook, which answers >some of Steven John's queries and fills in some significant >omissions from the story Chris Rutowski has been telling. >Paul Devereux should be joining the List soon (AOL willing, >tee hee), and can fill in much more. Excellent, thank you (and Paul)!! (Check for the typo "the the...") I think Chris was confining himself to Dr. P's work so I don't see the content of this excerpt as representative of omission on his part. I'm still particularly interested in a formal definition of an 'earthlight,' one that can be used on time/location coded data. My present understanding is that earthlights are _very_ transient, but how transient? Twenty seconds, twenty minutes, twenty days? Are they bound by the characteristics of the ambient seismic activity producing them or can they transit longer distances? Anyway, thanks much for the excerpt! Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Space Shuttle Mission Video Available over Internet From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:34:34 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:44:42 -0500 Subject: Space Shuttle Mission Video Available over Internet Brian Dunbar Headquarters, Washington, DC February 10, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-0873) Kelly Humphries Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX (Phone: 281/244-5050) RELEASE: I97-2 SPACE SHUTTLE MISSION VIDEO AVAILABLE OVER INTERNET NASA's Shuttle Web will provide continuous audio and video coverage of the STS-82 Hubble Space Telescope servicing mission in a test of the latest technology for streaming video over the Internet. Working with Technology Interface Inc. and other commercial Internet service and content providers, NASA will use a Dutch- manufactured product called "WebCam" to stream NASA Television programming over the World Wide Web. In addition to "cybercasting" the launch and landing, NASA will transmit live video of the four space walks, all mission briefings and the daily "Mission Update" program. Links to the video stream through American and European reflectors are available on the NASA Shuttle Web, which maintains a constant address of: http://shuttle.nasa.gov WebCam requires no plug-ins or special software for video streaming, and is capable of providing synchronized audio through audio-streaming software. This experiment will help NASA evaluate the use of video technology for future missions. If the cybercast functions as expected and network bandwidth considerations can be successfully addressed, the agency may provide similar coverage on future missions. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:24:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:50:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:13:41 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >James, >I agree with your statements completely. >It was refreshing to hear Bob Brown actually making sense about >Shargel, but he apparently was forced to do so by Shargel's >totally ridiculous presentation. >I did not attend this year's conference because I was so >disgusted with the quality of presentations last year. And >you are absolutely on target to ask why Brown, Stevens, Hesemann, >and the other board members have not applied the same standards >to blatant charletans like Bob Dean. Dean's presentation last >year was only slightly below Shargel's on the scale of the >ridiculous. >The UFO community HAS been infiltrated with disinformation >suppliers. Whether these people are part of an organized effort >or just crackpots who have found safe refuge is something which >needs to be studied. >Bob 'Dr.' Lee Shargel's lecture presentation at the Laughlin, Nevada, 6th Annual International UFO Congress Convention & Film Festival (25 - 31 January) which took place on Wednesday afternoon 22 January, was received in stunned silence by 50% of the audience (myself included). It was certainly one hell of a 'trip' for this observer, but no sooner had he begun to claim that the NASA/DoD "Clementine" probe was secretly launched, most recognised there was a major credibility problem with Shargel. I had seen cut-away drawings of the probe six months prior to its launch in the prestigeous aviation magazine "Flight International" - it was no big secret. The earlier showing of alleged gun-camera still photographs of the 1947 Roswell craft must, I admit, caused me to scuttle out into the lobby and alert a few colleagues to what they may be missing - however the resultant roller coaster ride of hype contained no meaningful supportive evidence or testimony which could substantiate any of it. To be fair to the Congress organisers, they did their level best to seek relevant answers to a long list of suspect claims and statements issued by Shargel in a face-to-face meeting with the man early Saturday morning, 25 January. I was invited by Bob Brown to sit in on the discussion as an independent observer. I don't know what has been reported elsewhere because this is the first opportunity since returning to the UK (I spent the following week with my family on vacation in the States) to catch up on a mountain of e-mail, but suffice to say that in my opinion, 'Dr.' Lee Shargel quickly confirmed in the first 10 minutes of that Saturday meeting that he was not a credible character. He admitted concocting numerous storylines and uttered a memorable statement that much of his lecture material was a "load of phoney baloney". I felt sorry for Bob Brown and the rest of the Congress Directors present, but don't think blame should be hurled at any group or individual for extending an invitation to Shargel (which he admitted was not his real name) to speak at the event. Whether this was applied disinformation at its worst (which I doubt because there were hopelessly apparent flaws in his lecture) or an attempt to bolster his new book, the people I truly felt for were some in the audience who Shargel held in an almost hypnotic trance. Generally speaking, the majority of speakers in Laughlin delivered interesting material - Dr. Richard Sauder for one - though some left a lot to be desired. Nonetheless, there are no pretentions about what to expect, the subject matter at the Congress is always diverse and covers a broad range of topics. It's rather like watching a new UFO documentary for the first time - where perhaps only a few minutes sparks genuine interest while the rest is instantly forgotten. I've reviewed the Laughlin Congress for our March/April '97 issue of UFO Magazine and will continue to recommend it to UFO enthusiasts, not least because it offers an opportunity to sit in judgement on over two-dozen international speakers and address topical issues on a personal face-to-face basis. I agree 100% with Bob Shell's assertion that people like Shargel should be closely scrutinised, ideally BEFORE unleashing them to a wider and unsuspecting public audience. Unfortunately, because of the very nature of the subject, some 'researchers' can and do play on the acknowledged need to protect backgrounds, sources and methods etc., and ultimately one is told "you either take my word for it or you don't" - a potential quicksand in the making. There are no easy answers, but disinformation on the kind of scale as demonstrated by Shargel has to be quickly nipped in the bud. I can state for the record, that the Congress Directors gave Shargel a torrid time during that Saturday morning (deservedly so in my opinion) but they conducted themselves with great dignity and demonstrated remarkable composure in the face of some heated remonstrations by the man in question. I should add that although I gave a brief 45-minute lecture during Congress week itself, I paid my own air ticket to cover proceedings for UFO Magazine and was only invited to speak a few weeks beforehand. Neither myself nor any of the speakers received fees for this, or any other previous Congress to my knowledge. Aside of the Shargel episode, the entire week spent in Laughlin was very enjoyable and the hospitality and friendship extended was excellent. One couple who travelled from Liverpool, England, celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary. George & Jean commented it was their "...best anniversary ever." Hopefully that puts things in their proper perspective. Yours faithfully, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 AUFORA: Surfing through space From: David Watanabe <praetor@spots.ab.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 18:52:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:48:02 -0500 Subject: AUFORA: Surfing through space AUFORA News Update Monday, February 10th, 1997 <www.aufora.org> ___________________________ NEW 'WAVE' IN SPACE EXPLORATION WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. -- First there was "channel surfing." Then came "surfing the Net." A Purdue University researcher now has found that spacecraft might be able to "surf" through space. For nearly 20 years, Kathleen Howell has been combing the solar system in search of specific points in empty space, called libration points. Using high-speed computers, she now has determined that spacecraft launched from Earth can practically "surf" toward a libration point by simply landing in a kind of gravitational "undertow" that naturally funnels a craft there. Her efforts could help lower costs of planetary missions. Her work already is being utilized to support studies of the sun and its effects on planetary environments. Such missions may provide advance warning on solar activity that can cripple communications satellites orbiting our planet. Howell, an associate professor of aeronautics and astronautics at Purdue, studies spacecraft trajectories in the vicinity of libration points, where the gravitational pull from two or more heavenly bodies, plus the centrifugal force from their rotation, cancel each other out. For example, there is a libration point between the Earth and the sun. Theoretically, a spacecraft placed at a libration point would stay there indefinitely. However, very subtle gravitational tugs from distant planets or an errant asteroid could disturb a craft enough to cause it to drift away, Howell says. But place a spacecraft in orbit near a libration point and you've got a stable venue for making observations and taking data. "In the late 1970s, when I was working on my dissertation at Stanford University, my adviser was involved in the discovery of orbits around libration points, and that's when the utility of these regions was first realized," Howell explains. "These orbits are very complicated, much more complex than the orbit of a planet around the sun, which is why we often refer to the orbit as 'near' a libration point instead of 'around' a libration point." Howell will talk about her research on libration point orbits Feb. 10-12 at the American Astronautical Society Spaceflight Mechanics Meeting in Huntsville, Ala. An orbit near a libration point is considered stable if a spacecraft in orbit needs little or no "station keeping," small nudges from positioning rockets to keep the craft on the right track. Howell has investigated many orbits near libration points throughout the solar system. "Libration points are located at places in the solar system where very interesting things are happening, such as the environment between the Earth and the sun," Howell says. Spacecraft placed in such regions can gather data over a longer period of time than other missions, such as flybys, and can collect data from various regions of space, without being limited to the space near planets. Getting into a libration point orbit can be half the fun. Currently, space missions are planned by calculating a specific trajectory, or path, to a destination, a complicated mathematical process that has to be repeated for each new mission. But by applying sophisticated mathematics to what is essentially an engineering problem, Howell, in the past three years, has discovered that a spacecraft could "surf" into a libration point orbit. She and her colleagues have found that the complicated gravitational fields in space can form two-dimensional "surfaces" around libration points, surfaces that extend out into space. These surfaces, some of which pass relatively close to the Earth, contain gentle curves and bends, like the surface of a sheet billowing in the wind. If you can get a spacecraft anywhere on the sheet, she says, it will naturally get into orbit around a particular libration point, without having to use fuel to steer the craft. And once you find a sheet, you don't have to perform the calculations to find it again. "It's kind of like a marble rolling in a funnel," she says. "All I have to do is get on the sheet and I can 'ride' to a libration point. We can also 'shift' from one sheet to another to get to a destination, not necessarily a libration point. This is an entirely new way of planning a mission. It's a tremendous tool that if nothing else will clearly cut down on the computational misery associated with designing libration point mission trajectories." Howell says that riding a surface would be slower than using high-powered engines to go directly to a destination, such as Jupiter. However, a mission utilizing the surfaces could be a "low-thrust" mission, meaning much less powerful engines would be needed on a craft, less fuel would be consumed on the journey and smaller spacecraft could be used. Howell and her graduate students are looking for such surfaces in the solar system, determining where they go and then plotting them on a computer. They are among the first to use the surfaces to plan possible future missions being submitted to NASA. For example, they are putting together three surfaces to build a path for a spacecraft that will collect and bring back to Earth samples of material being swept out of the sun. Eventually Howell would like to provide mission designers with a complete data base of surfaces, enabling them to click on the starting and ending points of a mission and have the computer quickly and automatically plot a trajectory using the sheets. She is working with engineers and mathematicians at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., to determine how the surfaces can be used most effectively. Libration point orbits also could help lower the cost of planetary and exploratory missions. "Instead of launching five individual spacecraft from Earth, which is expensive, we could launch five spacecraft all in one craft and send them to a particular libration point orbit," Howell says. "From there, it would take much less fuel to send each craft off in a different direction, to other libration point orbits or possibly to other planets." The practicality of having spacecraft in libration point orbits was demonstrated just last month. Between Jan. 6 and 10, two satellites in libration point orbits between the Earth and the sun, called SOHO and WIND, detected and recorded data from a major space "storm" that originated from a huge eruption on the sun. The disturbance hurled particles and radiation from the sun into space, sweeping past the Earth. "Solar activity such as this and solar flares can interfere with power stations and disrupt satellites in Earth orbit," Howell says. Earth-orbiting satellites control everything from telephone and television signals to sensitive global positioning systems used extensively for air, land and sea navigation. "Not only can satellites in this region help us better understand the environment around the sun and Earth, but they also can provide advance warning for possibly crippling communications and power disturbances," Howell says. Source: Kathleen Howell, (765) 494-5786; e-mail, howell@ecn.purdue.edu Writer: Amanda Siegfried, (765) 494-4709; e-mail, amanda_siegfried@uns.purdue.edu _____________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/ To subscribe / unsubscribe, send email to: auforanews-list@aufora.org You must include either "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" within the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will NOT be processed. _____________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association Search for other documents from or mentioning: praetor | howell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 New World Vistas From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@nmaa.org> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:51:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:45:54 -0500 Subject: New World Vistas For those who are interested in the abduction phenomenon, there was a very interesting article published in the MUFON Journal, that was also posted to various usenet groups. The article was called. "Evidence for Military Kidnappings of alleged UFO Abductees" By Helmut Lammer Ph.D. Since the entire article has been published, it is fairly simple to find on the "net", but I wanted to quote a passage from it that I found of interest: ===begin article quote=== The New World Vistas was a major undertaking for the USAF Scientific Advisory Board (SAB) [33]. This military publication was published in June 1996 and is a forecast of possible military developments over the next 50 years. In this publication, military scientists suggest that the development of electromagnetic energy sources, the output of which can be pulsed, shaped, and focused and coupled with the human body will be able to: 1) allow one to prevent voluntary muscular movements, 2) control emotions and actions, 3) produce sleep, 4) transmit suggestions, 5) interfere with both short-term and long-term memory, and 6) both produce and delete an experience set. The military scientists argue that the concept of imprinting a virtual reality experience set is highly speculative, but nonetheless highly exciting. If such a technology was developed in secret and exists today, the unexplainable vividness of some abduction accounts may be explained by the implantation of an experience set into the brain of an abductee. Dr. Joseph Sharp and Allen Frey experimented with microwaves and transmitted spoken words directly into the audio cortex via pulsed-microwaves. Dr. Frey's work in this field, dating back to the sixties, gave rise to the so called "Frey Effect," which is commonly known as "microwave hearing" [34, 35]. Again, alleged alien abductees and mind control victims sometimes report that they hear voices in their heads, although they are not schizophrenic. Certainly these scenarios cannot be the case for all UFO abductions like multiple abductions, but it may explain a small portion and may play a significant role in MILABs. ===end article quote=== After reviewing that passage several times, I decided to see what this statement was based on and found out that "New World Vistas" is a free publication, available directly from the Department of the Air Force at the Pentagon. When I requested a couple of copies of it, I wasn't aware that it was a 13 volume set that covered much more than is reflected above. I would also point out that there are two versions of the publication. I was sent the unclassified version, while a classified version goes into greater detail regarding current projects and developments. After much searching, I finally located the passages that related to the quote above in a Section entitled, "Fifty Years From Now. . . Forecasting the Future". Within that there is a sub-heading entitled, "Biological Process Control", and it includes this information: ===begin New Vistas quote=== . . . It appears likely that there are a number of physical agents that might actively, but largely benignly, interact or interfere with biological processes in an adversary in a manner that will provide our armed forced the tools to control these adversaries without extensive loss of life or property. These physical agents could include acoustic fields, optical fields, electromagnetic fields, and a combination thereof. This paper will address only the prospect of physical regulation of biological processes using electromagnetic fields. The literature regarding the interaction of biological processes with electromagnetic fields is growing at a rapid rate. Sources are becoming more available, biomedical instrumentation is improving so that the interactions between biological processes and physical fields can be examined with fewer artifacts, and the principles underlying these interactions are becoming cleaner and more amenable to theoretical prediction. Prior to the mid-21st century, there will be a virtual explosion of knowledge in the field of neuroscience. We will have achieved a clear understanding of how the human brain works, how it really controls the various functions of the body, and how it can be manipulated (both positively and negatively). One can envision the development of electromagnetic energy sources, the output of which can be pulsed, shaped, and focused, that can couple with the human body in a fashion that will allow one to prevent voluntary muscular movements, control emotions (and thus actions), produce sleep, transmit suggestions, interfere with both short-term and long-term memory, produce an experience set, and delete an experience set. This will open the door for development of some novel capabilities that can be used in armed conflict, in terrorist/hostage situations, and in training. New weapons that offer the opportunity of control of an adversary without resorting to a lethal solution or collateral casualties can be developed around this concept. This would offer significant improvements in the capabilities of our special operation forces. . . . . The prospect of a weapon to accomplish this when targeted against an individual target is reasonable; the prospect of a weapon effective against massed for would seem more remote. It would also appear possible to create high fidelity speech in the huma n body, raising the possibility of covert suggestion and psychological direction. When a high power microwave pulse in the gigahertz range strikes the human body, a very small temperature perturbation occurs. This is associated with a sudden expansion of the slightly heated tissue. This expansion is fast enough to produce an acoustic wave. If a pulse stream is used, is should be possible to create an internal acoustic field in the 5-15 kilohertz range, which is audible. Thus, it may be possible to "talk" to selected adversaries in a fashion that would be most disturbing to them. In comparison to the discussion in the paragraphs above, the concept of imprinting an experience set is highly speculative, but nonetheless, highly exciting. Modern electromagnetic scattering theory raises the prospect that ultrashort pulse scattering through the human brain can result in reflected signals that can be used to construct a reliable estimate of the degree of central nervous system arousal. The concept behind this "remote EEG" is to scatter off of action potentials or ensembles of action potentials in major nervous system tracts. Assuming we will understand how our skills are imprinted and recalled it might be possible to take this concept one step further and duplicate the experience set in another individual. The prospect of providing a "been there, done that" knowledge base could provide a revolutionary change in our approach to specialized training. How this can be done, or even if it can be done, are significant unknowns. The impact of success would boggle the mind. ===end New Vistas quote=== My first reaction was to question why the military was looking into areas that closely parallel the experiences described by abductees, but learned after a little research on the "net" that there has been active research into the impact of electromagnetic waves for more than a half century. These areas of investigation have apparently been going on for many years in research labs, and one can only wonder what positive results they have obtained. As I said at the onset, my copy of New World Vistas is the unclassified version. The classified version may well have contained greater detail regarding past studies. I would note that some of the early pioneers in this field in the 1940s worked with Dr. Vannevar Bush. Hope this was of interest.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 AUFORA: Five UFOs over Gulf Coast From: David Watanabe <praetor@spots.ab.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 17:53:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:46:59 -0500 Subject: AUFORA: Five UFOs over Gulf Coast AUFORA News Update Monday, February 10th, 1997 <www.aufora.org> ___________________________ FIVE UFOs OVER GULF COAST=20 from UFO=A0Roundup (http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts) On Wednesday, February 5, 1997, at 11:30 p.m., motorists driving=20 north on Texas Highway 36 from Brazoria (population 3,025)=20 spotted a formation of five circular red lights in the sky.=20 One of the motorists was the husband of Nancy Marcum, South=20 Texas regional director of Skywatch, International. Mrs. Marcum=20 has provided a detailed summary of her husband's sighting.=20 "He said from this distance they looked about tree (top) level=20 as he was coming closer to West Columbia (population 4,109)."=20 The UFOs passed directly over the Marcum vehicle, and he=20 estimated "that they were about a thousand feet up. I told him=20 I didn't know how high a thousand would be, so he said about=20 three radio towers high."=20 Mrs. Marcum provided a schematic of the UFO formation. This is=20 what it looked like.=20 0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A00 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A00 0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A00 "If you were to number each 0 as a (red) light, the one to the=20 far right, he said, was the tail end of the formation. The red=20 lights all came on (blinking) in random order--no two would be=20 on at the same time. Say, the flashes were a second apart."=20 Mr. Marcum reported that, heading north out of Brazoria, the=20 formation approached from "the left hand side of the road"=20 (the west) "over to the right hand side of the road" (the east)=20 and on (southward) to Bailey's Prairie or Angelton or maybe the=20 Lake Jackson area. He said the lights were all at the same level,=20 and they were spread apart more than a football-field length=20 would be."=20 "I asked him if he could make out the shape of the objects,"=20 Mrs. Marcum said, "and he said all he could see were the lights.=20 At one point, he described them (the lights) as coming out of a=20 cone-shaped area. He was all wound up because he thinks this UFO=20 stuff is a bunch of hooey. But now he's wondering just what it=20 was he saw. The guy in the car behind him ran off the road. He=20 doesn't know if it was because he slowed down to stare at the=20 objects, or if the guy beside him also saw the objects."=20 (Many thanks to Nancy Marcum for this story.)=20 _____________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/ To subscribe / unsubscribe, send email to: auforanews-list@aufora.org You must include either "subscribe" or "unsubscribe"=20 within the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will NOT be processed. _____________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association Search for other documents from or mentioning: praetor |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: skaeser@nmaa.org (Steve Kaeser) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:25:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:43:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Please understand that these thoughts are merely my opinions, and nothing more. I have been watching this matter since it first hit the "net" in January of '95 and have communicated with a number of the principals in this. My comments are based on those communications and my memory. To be quite honest, I have avoided making broad statements regarding the "film" to avoid being drawn into an endless debate. But these questions were raised, and I have decided to respond with some of my thoughts: >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 11:59:47 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Steven, >Well, all I can say is that people's perceptions of someone can be >wrong. And even though Ray has sometimes come across as a bufoon in >TV interviews and such...I would not underestimate his involvement. >I personally think he is right in the middle of this. And unless it >is proved otherwise he alone is responsible for the entire fiasco. >It has been Ray who has made all the claims about an alleged Alien >Autopsy and this ex-military cameraman. We have NO FILM to test. We >have NO CAMERAMAN to interview. All we have are Ray's word and 2 >dubious videos that are proof of nothing. I think it's naive to >think Ray is an innocent patsy in this. Perceptions can indeed be wrong, but the comments I have heard come from those who knew Ray long before his involvement with the Santilli "film", and most of them come from those who don't like his methods. Obviously Ray couldn't be the only person involved in this, even if it is faked. The creation of the video would have required a set, props, actors, not to mention the model makers and special effects help. The special effects community is fairly close, and it would be likely that an effort by a known special effect shop would have been recognized. Those who perform this type of hoax usually come forward to claim their due credit, and laugh at those who were fooled. This may yet occur, but so far it has not. Ray has been quite honest in admitting that he knows more than he's telling. He obviously knows the source of the "film" or video, and has provided a story that we can either accept or reject. If we reject it out of hand, then we are left with the "film"/video without any provenance whatsoever. If we accept it, we are faced with even more questions than answers and there is no way to track it much further. Neither solution is a good one, and both rely primarily on our "gut reaction" rather than evidence. >In my opinion Ray HAS deliberately deceived us on many occasions. >And Ray's claim that a foreign investor is holding the film has not >been proven either. We don't even know if there is a film. For all >we know Ray is using this alleged partner to try and obfuscate his >own involvement. There is not one thing in this entire story that >doesn't revolve directly around Ray. An honest opinion, and I appreciate that you didn't state it as fact. I know many businessmen who hold their cards close to their vest, and like the feeling of power they feel as they move forward in their business. Employees and customers might feel that they had been deceived at times by some decisions, but they were reached through careful thought, or perhaps on a whim, by the person who holds the power to make such changes. Ray is spokesman for those who control the "film" (or controls it himself) and changes in his position regarding the "film" may be economic from his perspective, and don't prove that he is merely trying to be devious. Ray would be the first to admit that he opens his mouth too much at times, and has made statements that have come back to haunt him. But those that I've seen were explainable as misquotes or poor judgement. Neither of which serve as evidence, one way or the other. Do you know much about Ray? Are you aware of his involvement in other entertainment areas? It is my understanding that Ray would rather let this entire matter go away at this point, but Volker wants to get the rest of the "film" out to maximize his profits. Ray, on the other hand, isn't exactly jumping at the prospect of being hounded by UFOlogists and the press. The fact is that Ray doesn't need this "film" to pull him away from more profitable pursuits. > >I believe there were 25 questions submitted originally by Bob >Kiviat. The Japanese used 12 in their presentaion so there >might be a few more we haven't seen or heard in the can. I'd >be real surprised if we learn anything new even if there are >more questions and answers in the Kiviat version (if it ever >happens). The ones we've heard and read about from the >Japanese show were vague and unrevealing. Don't get your hopes up. I had heard that the FUJI-TV showing was about half the length of the original, but those that have seen it say that it contains no new information. The only new information is the image of the alleged cameraman, and that (as you note) is of questionable value. >> I would suspect that there are enough amateur sleuths out there working >> on this that the "cameraman" will likely be found if he exists. > >But the alleged cameraman must exist and on that point I have my >doubts. I think the man in the video is an actor. What do you >think? The problem is that I require proof from both sides in this issue to convince me. I don't have proof that Santilli's scenerio is fake, and I don't have proof that it is real. However, the lack of proof on one side, does not IMHO add weight to the other side. It merely points to our lack of knowledge. If Santilli's story is to be accepted, then the cameraman must at least exist as far as he is concerned. The question of whether or not the cameraman's a real person hasn't been answered, but for Ray he would indeed be real. If Santilli's story is rejected, then this video is one more effort on his part to prove his case. I suspect that the cameraman "interview" was the result of an earlier agreement between Ray and Kiviat regarding an interview. I think that Kiviat had hopes of actually interviewing the "cameraman", but that later fell through. It is my understanding that Kiviat provided the equipment, tape, and questions to Ray, and they were forwarded to the "Cameraman". I think that Ray (with his partners) decided to make a few extra bucks and sold a portion of it to FUJI-TV, leaving Kiviat to release it in the U.S. Unfortunately, the Internet has once again shown that it is making the world a smaller place and much of what Kiviat has is now old news. This entire debate will be raised a level or two if Ray actually releases the other "autopsy/dissection" sequence. It certainly won't prove anything by itself, but raises the level of complexity if it's a hoax. Among other things, one will have to question why hoaxers would spend time and materials in creating a sequence that is gynecological in nature, and unshowable on television (in most places). Kiviat has gotten a lot of criticism for his masking the crotch area in the FOX Network program he created, and I can imagine the problems he would have with a sequence in which one of the doctors allegedly sticks one arm into the creature up to his elbow. From what I've heard, it is obviously not human, but that won't appease the censors who would likely view this as objectionable. There are obviously far more questions than answers with regard to the Santilli "film". My instinct tells me that Ray will take advantage of the 50th Anniversary of UFOLogy and release the rest of the video sometime this Spring. Given the nature of the video, I would also suspect that direct sales will make up a larger portion of the release this time around. The images will all have a logo in the corner to identify it as copyrighted material, which can help to limit the piracy that plagued his last release. Will it help to prove anything. No. But it will at least be interesting, and take the debate into areas where it hasn't gone before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: skaeser@nmaa.org (Steve Kaeser) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:06:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:42:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:24:41 -0500 (EST) To: updates@globalserve.net Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:24:41 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 08:03:52 -0500 >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >> He has been quite honest in his statement that all he >> really wanted to do is make a good return on his investment, and after >> digging into his business dealings we learn that the investment was >> really made by someone else who is holding the "film" and all the >> cards. In business investments, this type of arrangement if fairly >> common. >Welcome to the list Steve, >I ask: How do we _know_ someone else is holding the "film" and all the cards? >I don't think we _know_ that at all. Unless you know something the rest of us >don't. >Rebecca You're quite right. We don't know much at all for sure in this. However, there seems to be ample evidence that Ray isn't willing (or able) to do much of anything without the approval of Volker Spielberg. At least one production company was able to speak with Volker briefly, and his responses seemed to support Ray's contentions. This is not proof, by any stretch of the imagination, but once again Ray's story didn't fall to pieces as many thought it would have by now. Ray, obviously, knows more about this than he's telling. However, even if he completely lacks credibility, the images remain unexplained. I'm somewhat surprised that they have held up this long to the scrutiny that many are putting them through, but even if no flaw is ever found one can't consider them to be real without additional information regarding their history. Given the current situation, I wouldn't bet that Santilli is going to provide useful information, so I would suspect that this will eventually go down to an interesting tale with no evidence to support it. Take care, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 AUFORA: Launch of massive radio telescope From: David Watanabe <praetor@spots.ab.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 22:48:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:49:14 -0500 Subject: AUFORA: Launch of massive radio telescope AUFORA News Update Monday February 10th, 1997 <www.aufora.org> __________________________ LAUNCH WILL CREATE A RADIO TELESCOPE LARGER THAN EARTH NASA and the National Radio Astronomy Observatory are joining with an international consortium of space agencies to support the launch of a Japanese satellite next week that will create the largest astronomical "instrument" ever built -- a radio telescope more than two-and-a-half times the diameter of the Earth that will give astronomers their sharpest view yet of the universe. The launch of the Very Long Baseline Interferometry (VLBI) Space Observatory Program (VSOP) satellite by Japan's Institute of Space and Astronautical Science (ISAS) is scheduled for Feb. 10 at 11:50 p.m. EST (1:50 p.m. Feb. 11, Japan time.) The satellite is part of an international collaboration led by ISAS and backed by Japan's National Astronomical Observatory; NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA; the National Science Foundation's National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO), Socorro, NM; the Canadian Space Agency; the Australia Telescope National Facility; the European VLBI Network and the Joint Institute for Very Long Baseline Interferometry in Europe. Very long baseline interferometry is a technique used by radio astronomers to electronically link widely separated radio telescopes together so they work as if they were a single instrument with extraordinarily sharp "vision," or resolving power. The wider the distance between telescopes, the greater the resolving power. By taking this technique into space for the first time, astronomers will approximately triple the resolving power previously available with only ground-based telescopes. The satellite system will have resolving power almost 1,000 times greater than the Hubble Space Telescope at optical wavelengths. The satellite's resolving power is equivalent to being able to see a grain of rice in Tokyo from Los Angeles. "Using space VLBI, we can probe the cores of quasars and active galaxies, believed to be powered by super massive black holes," said Dr. Robert Preston, project scientist for the U.S. Space Very Long Baseline Interferometry project at JPL. "Observations of cosmic masers -- naturally-occurring microwave radio amplifiers -- will tell us new things about the process of star formation and activity in the heart of other galaxies." "By the 1980s, radio astronomers were observing the universe with assemblages of radio telescopes whose resolving power was limited only by the size of the Earth. Now, through a magnificent international effort, we will be able to break this barrier and see fine details of celestial objects that are beyond the reach of a purely ground-based telescope array. We anticipate a rich harvest of new scientific knowledge from VSOP," said Dr. Paul Vanden Bout, Director of NRAO. In the first weeks after launch, scientists and engineers will "test the deployment of the reflecting mesh telescope in orbit, the wide-band data link from the satellite to the ground, the performance of the low noise amplifiers in orbit, and the high-precision orbit determination and attitude control necessary for VLBI observations with an orbiting telescope," according to Dr. Joel Smith, manager of the U.S. Space VLBI project at JPL. Scientific observations are expected to begin in May. The 26-foot diameter orbiting radio telescope will observe celestial radio sources in concert with a number of the world's ground-based radio telescopes. The 1,830-pound satellite will be launched from ISAS' Kagoshima Space Center, at the southern tip of Kyushu, one of Japan's main islands, and will be the first launch with ISAS' new M-5 series rocket. The satellite will go into an elliptical orbit, varying between 620 to 12,400 miles above the Earth's surface. This orbit provides a wide range of distances between the satellite and ground-based telescopes, which is important for producing a high-quality image of the radio source being observed. One orbit of the Earth will take about six hours. The satellite's observations will concentrate on some of the most distant and intriguing objects in the universe, where the extremely sharp radio "vision" of the new system can provide much-needed information about a number of astronomical mysteries. For years, astronomers have known that powerful "engines" in the hearts of quasars and many galaxies are pouring out tremendous amounts of energy. They suspect that supermassive black holes, with gravitational fields so strong that not even light can escape them, lie in the centers of these "engines." The mechanism at work in the centers of quasars and active galaxies, however, remains a mystery. Ground-based radio telescopes, notably NRAO's Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA), have revealed fascinating new details in recent years, and VSOP is expected to add a wealth of new information on these objects, millions or billions of light-years distant from Earth. Many of these same objects act as super-powerful particle accelerators to eject "jets" of subatomic particles at nearly the speed of light. Scientists plan to use VSOP to monitor the changes and motions in these jets to learn more about how they originate and interact with their surroundings. The satellite also will aim at regions in the sky where giant collections of water and other molecules act as natural amplifiers of radio emission much as lasers amplify light. These regions, called cosmic masers, are found in areas where new stars are forming and near the centers of galaxies. Observations can provide the detail needed to measure motions of individual maser "spots" within these regions, and provide exciting new information about the star-forming regions and the galaxies where the masers reside. In addition, high-resolution studies of cosmic masers can allow astronomers to calculate distances to them with unprecedented accuracy, and thus help resolve continuing questions about the size and age of the universe. The project is a major international undertaking, with about 40 radio telescopes from more than 15 countries having committed time to co-observe with the satellite. This includes the National Science Foundation's Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA), an array of 10 telescopes spanning the United States from Hawaii to Saint Croix; NASA's Deep Space Network (DSN) sites in California, Spain, and Australia; the European VLBI Network, more than a dozen telescopes ranging from the United Kingdom to China; a Southern Hemisphere array of telescopes stretching from eastern Australia to South Africa; and Japan's network of domestic radio telescopes. In the United States, NASA is funding critical roles in the VSOP mission at both JPL and NRAO. JPL has built an array of three new tracking stations at its DSN sites in Goldstone, CA; Madrid, Spain; and near Canberra, Australia. A large existing tracking station at each of these sites has also been converted to an extremely sensitive radio telescope for simultaneous observations with the satellite. JPL also is providing precision orbit determination, scientific and operational planning support to the Japanese, and advice to U.S. astronomers who wish to observe with the satellite. NRAO is building a new tracking station at Green Bank, WV; contributing observing time on the VLBA array of telescopes; modifying existing data analysis hardware and software, and aiding astronomers with the analysis of the VSOP data. Much of the observational data will be processed at NRAO's facility in Socorro, NM, using the VLBA Correlator, a special purpose high-performance computer designed to process VLBI data. VSOP is the culmination of many years of planning and work by scientists and engineers around the world. Tests using NASA's Tracking and Data Relay Satellite System (TDRSS) proved the feasibility of space VLBI in 1986. Just last year, those old data were used again to test successfully the data-reduction facilities for VSOP. JPL manages the U.S. Space Very Long Baseline Interferometry project for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. The VLBA, headquartered in Socorro, NM, is part of the National Radio Astronomy Observatory, a facility of the National Science Foundation, operated under cooperative agreement by Associated Universities, Inc. _____________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/ To subscribe / unsubscribe, send email to: auforanews-list@aufora.org You must include either "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" within the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will NOT be processed. _____________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association Search for other documents from or mentioning: praetor |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Shramek To Address HUFON in February From: Thomas Rice <trex@holly.colostate.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:47:21 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:15:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Shramek To Address HUFON in February >Subject: Chuck Shramek to speak >Date: Sat, 1 Feb 97 19:03:18 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >>From hufon@juno.com (HUFON) >Organization Houston UFO Network >Date Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:32:56 GMT >Newsgroups houston.general >Message-ID <32f25248.20211596@news.nol.net> <snip> >Join us for a Valentine date with Chuck Shramek at 7:00pm Friday, >February 14th. The location is the Innova Building, 20 Greenway Plaza. >For further information, be sure to visit Chuck=B9s website at >http://www.neosoft.com/~cshramek. >The Houston UFO Network=B9s website is at >http://chelsea.ios.com/~dalemv19/hufon Hello, Would someone attending the above conference please contact me directly??? I have a question for Mr. Shramek on a different matter. I would appreciate the assistance, as he either doesn't return email, or is extremely delayed about it. Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice "One man's magic is another man's technology". Robert A. Heinlein "Love is _the_ most important factor in living, because without love, nothing else is the same." TR Search for other documents from or mentioning: trex | pparri | hufon |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Feb 97 09:34:04 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:21:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory Compliments of the Duke of Mendoza... > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:54:04 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > I think Chris was confining himself to Dr. P's work so I don't > see the content of this excerpt as representative of omission > on his part. I was being uncharacteristically polite, trying on a mantle [sic] of British understatement, so forth. Maybe not such a good idea. So how about: > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:18:48 -0600 (CST) > Persinger's theory originally was called the Tectonic Strain Theory > (TST) of UFOs because he was adamant that all UFO sightings, reports > and experiences could be explained as related to weak seismic events > deep underground. Slightly worse than an omission, indeed, because Dr P didn't claim *all* UFOs could be explained thus. First straw man. And then: > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:19:35 -0600 (CST) > Yes, his "lag" and "lead" time was clearly stated as 6 months. > He would accept as correlated data a magnitude 3 seismic event > 6 months before a nocturnal light observation several hundred > miles away. [snip] > There's one exception, of course, and that was when he "proved" > that UFOs in Manitoba were correlated with weak seismic events in > southern Minnesota, >700 km away. In that study, he used my own > MANUFOCAT for the UFO data (in others, he admitted using newspaper > clippings!). Since I know the demographics of the MANUFOCAT data, it > was easy to see how silly his correlations were. And if that was > typical of his methodology... Of course this sounds dozy - because it *omits* the notion that tectonic pressure, EM forces or whatever may take months to build up *and* are related to fault lines, water courses, etc etc, which are both large and complex... This could sound daft too: "Louise says she got pregnant in Charleston, VA, last week because she fell off her horse in Peshawar, Kashmir, in March 1994." However, we all know enough soppy romantic plots to create any number of possible links between the two events, so it makes implicit sense - we even know the person telling us wants to dine out on the story, which is sure to be more mind-boggling than we ever imagined. But *prima facie* it sounds as if Louise thinks the force of gravity makes you great with child, especially if a horse is present - a "silly correlation". And so it goes on. As for Persinger being a debunker, I beg leave to doubt that he's doing anything more wicked than being parsimonious - trying to find a natural explanation for anomalous events (and if it don't work, eliminate it) before going on to "magical" ones, e.g. "UFOs are alien spaceships". However, he should, IMO, have called his idea an hypothesis rather than a theory. What CSICOP makes of it is a separate issue. To omit that others have found some support for the idea isn't quite on, either. None of which is to suggest I think Dr P's proposals or even his data are foolproof. But there is more to the TST that makes sense than grumpy Chris has let on, *and* it has the virtue of being testable, which is more than you can say for most hypotheses in ufology. I'm surprised some clown hasn't accused Dr P of issuing "disinformation", although that isn't a bad description of what Chris Rutowski has done to/with the TST. And very irritating it was to read, too. For chapter and verse on the other questions you (Steven J.) ask, I gladly hand the torch to Paul, if he's inclined to take it. best P. Mendoza Bristlesmooch Search for other documents from or mentioning: 101653.2205 | sjpowell |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Close encounters of the U.S.A.F. kind From: werd@interlog.com (Drew Williamson) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:44:49 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:08:45 -0500 Subject: Close encounters of the U.S.A.F. kind There was much discussion a few weeks back on aircraft having near misses. Perhaps this article might answer some of them. This story was covered by CNN too. Drew +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Page A20 of THE TORONTO STAR Saturday February 8, 1997 Fighter jets, airliners in 2 close encounters Incidents prompt military flight suspension WASHINGTON (AP) - Four National Guard fighter jets screamed past a civilian airliner off the coast of Maryland yesterday, the second harrowing incident involving Guard F-16s and airliners in the area in three days. The U.S. Air Force quickly suspended all its flights in restricted areas along the East Coast for a review of rules and operating procedures. At the same time, the Federal Aviation Administration told controllers in Florida, Washington and New York and military controllers in Virginia to review procedures for operations in and around East Coast military areas. The American Eagle turboprop took no special action in yesterday's incident, and no one was hurt. However, two days earlier the pilot of a Nations Air Boeing 727 carrying 77 passengers and seven crew members from San Juan, Puerto Rico to New York had to dive into evasive manoeuvres. Two flight attendants and a passenger were thrown to the cabin floor. In that incident, off New Jersey's coast, a civilian controller following the planes repeatedly expressed concern and asked military controllers to get the Guard plane closest to the 727 to move away. An official of the airline charged that the fighter pilots "screwed up" or "were playing games" during the encounter. But New Jersey National Guard Col. Thomas Griffin said the F-16 pilots simply were trying to identify a plane that shouldn't have been in that sector. The National Transportation Safety Board mobilized investigation teams to look into both incidents. Maj. Gen. Donald Shepperd, director of the Air National Guard, told a Pentagon briefing he considered military aviation "very, very safe," noting that thousands of flights occur each day over the East Coast. In yesterday's incident, the pilot of the American Eagle turboprop, en route from Raleigh Durham in North Carolina to New York's JFK Airport, reported two jet fighters flew above his plane and two below. Shepperd said three fighters passed at least 300 metres above the civilian plane and the fourth, with low fuel levels, was 450 metres below it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: New World Vistas From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:35:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:35:40 -0500 Subject: Re: New World Vistas >New World Vistas >Errol, would you provide the address to obtain this >publication from the Air Force. Thanks. Hello Carter, Certainly, try: http://www.alienjigsaw.com/milab.html For subscribers without browsers I'll endeavour to reformat the file and post it here in the next few hours. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Feb 97 15:02:42 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:24:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:24:15 -0500 >From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Graham, I should have said that I was not disgusted with all of the presentations last year, just more than half, and that I was not there for the entire conference. Just to be fair. BTW, you are one of the people from last year that I was not disgusted with!!! What's your take on Bob Dean? Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Preliminary findings of Project MILAB From: http://www.alienjigsaw.com/milab.html Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:36:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:36:49 -0500 Subject: Preliminary findings of Project MILAB Preliminary findings of Project MILAB: Evidence for Military Kidnappings of alleged UFO Abductees By Helmut Lammer Ph.D. =A91996 I. Introduction UFO abductions are generally a very strange and complex phenomenon.=20 For skeptics, journalists and the public, it is difficult to believe=20 that abductions by alien beings have their basis in physical reality.=20 Reports of alien beings entering bedrooms through walls, and=20 levitating abductees through closed windows and into a waiting craft=20 are hard to believe for the open minded researcher too. However, well=20 respected researchers have shown that the core of the UFO abduction=20 phenomenon cannot be explained psychologically as hallucinations or=20 mass delusions [1]. The passing decades of abduction research have=20 brought changes as well. Recently, some UFO abductees have reported=20 that they have also been kidnapped by military intelligence personnel=20 (MILAB) and taken to hospitals and/or military facilities, some of=20 which are described as being underground. Very few of the popular books on the subject of UFO abductions have=20 mentioned these experiences. Especially disconcerting is the fact that=20 abductees recall seeing military intelligence personnel together with=20 alien beings, working side by side in these secret facilities. The=20 presence of human military and civilian personnel occupying the same=20 physical reality as alien beings exceeds the mind-sets of the skeptics=20 and the open-minded researchers by several orders of magnitude. The=20 skeptics would rather believe that stories of aliens and military=20 personnel in governmental underground facilities are fabrications=20 designed to elicit attention from conspiracy believers or=20 hallucinations in general. Researchers in the field of mind control suggest that these cases are=20 evidence that the whole UFO abduction phenomenon is staged by the=20 intelligence community as a cover for their illegal experiments [2].=20 The open-minded researchers who are trying to gain respect for=20 abduction research ignore these stories, since they represent only a=20 minor fraction of the cases in their files [3]. I think that abduction=20 cases involving abductee reports of being abducted by the military as=20 well as alien beings, are very important for two reasons: 1.) If the UFO community has evidence that a covert military=20 intelligence task force is involved in the abduction phenomenon,=20 we would know that this phenomenon represents a matter of national=20 security. 2.) The alleged military involvement in the abduction phenomenon could=20 be evidence that the military uses abductees for mind control=20 experiments as test-targets for microwave weapons. Moreover, the=20 military could be monitoring and even kidnapping abductees for=20 information gathering purposes during, before and after a UFO=20 abduction. If either of these points are correct, researchers and victims can=20 expect to run into early resistance when proposing Congressional=20 hearings concerning UFOs and abductions. It is for this reason that I=20 have created Project MILAB and present in this article my preliminary=20 findings of this study. MILAB is the acronym for Military Abductions=20 of alleged UFO Abductees. I reviewed the relevant literature,=20 contacted UFO and mind control researchers, as well as MILAB abductees=20 and mind control victims from all over the world. I have compared my=20 findings with the comprehensive UFO Abduction Study by Dr. Thomas=20 Bullard [4,5], the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project [6,7] and the=20 MIT Abduction Proceedings [1]. =20 II. Helicopter Activity in Connection with MILABs My study indicates that MILAB abductees are harassed by dark, unmarked=20 helicopters that fly around their houses. The mysterious helicopter=20 activity goes back to the late sixties and early seventies, when they=20 showed an apparent interest in animal mutilations, but not in alleged=20 UFO abductees [8, 9, 10]. However, well-known researcher Raymond E.=20 Fowler reports some helicopter activity in connection with UFO=20 witnesses during the seventies [11]. Dr. Thomas Bullard compared 270=20 UFO abduction cases worldwide from 1968 to 1984. The majority of these=20 cases occurred during the seventies and early eighties [4,5]. I found=20 only 4 abduction cases in Dr. Bullard's study where the abductees saw=20 helicopters over or near their houses. Among these cases is the well=20 investigated Betty Andreasson-Luca abduction. Importantly, these helicopter cases occurred in North America; three=20 within the United States and one in Canada. Curiously, there were also=20 sightings of mysterious helicopters in England during the seventies,=20 but they were not connected with animal mutilations or UFO abductions=20 [12]. I have discovered that the helicopter activity associated with UFO=20 abductions has increased from the eighties to the present day. Dan=20 Wright has ten cases in the MUFON Transcription Project files (at the=20 time of this publication), where helicopters were seen flying in the=20 area of the abductee's home within hours of an alleged UFO abduction=20 [7]. I have also found that many abduction researchers in North=20 America have, on average, about three helicopter cases connected with=20 UFO abductions, in their files. It appears to me that this is a North=20 American phenomenon since none of the contacted researchers in=20 Australia, Africa, Europe and South America have well investigated=20 abduction cases that are connected with helicopter activity. Well-known abductees such as previously mentioned Betty=20 Andreasson-Luca, as well as Debbie Jordan, Kathy Mitchell, Whitley=20 Strieber, Leah Haley, Katharina Wilson, Beth Collins, Anna Jamerson=20 and many more, have been harassed by these phantom helicopters [13,=20 14, 15, 16, 17, 20]. It is not appropriate to suggest that these=20 helicopters are a nineties version of the black Cadillacs belonging to=20 the Men in Black (MIB) [4], since some abductees have photographs of=20 them and they have also been seen by witnesses who have nothing to do=20 with the UFO phenomenon. [e.g. 10, 13, 18]. In other words, the=20 unmarked helicopters are a physical phenomenon (perhaps contracted by=20 a secret military intelligence task force), while the MIB phenomenon=20 seems to have a paranormal derivation. Let us summarize what we know about the mysterious helicopter activity=20 in five points: 1.) The helicopter activity began during the late sixties to early=20 seventies and seemed to be connected with animal mutilations. 2.) During the above time frame, the helicopters showed only a minor=20 interest in UFO abductees, appearing occasionally after UFO=20 sightings. 3.) The helicopter activity began to increase in relation to UFO=20 abductions during the eighties and up to the present day. However,=20 it also continued to be reported in proximity to animal mutilation=20 sites across North America. 4.) At present, many North American abduction researchers have some=20 mysterious helicopter cases in their files. 5.) There were reports of phantom helicopter activity in England=20 during the seventies, but it seems that their interest in animal=20 mutilations and abductees is limited to North America. =20 III. Alleged Kidnappings by Military Intelligence Personnel Most abductees report interaction with military intelligence personnel=20 after the helicopters begin to appear. Debbie Jordan reports, for=20 instance, in a side note of her book Abducted! [13] that she was=20 stunned by an alleged friend and taken to a kind of hospital where she=20 was examined by a medical doctor. This doctor removed an implant from=20 her ear! The abduction experiences of Leah Haley and Katharina Wilson are full=20 of MILAB encounters [15, 16]. Some of Katharina Wilson's experiences=20 are comparable with mind control experiments. For example, she writes=20 of a flashback from her childhood where she remembers being forced=20 into what appears to be a Skinner Box-like container which may have=20 been used for behavior modification purposes. Because of these types=20 of experiences, Katharina Wilson published an excellent article on her=20 Web Site titled Project Open Mind: Are Some Alien Abductions=20 Government Mind Control Experiments? [19] Beth Collins and Anna=20 Jamerson included hypnosis transcripts of an abduction by human=20 military personnel in their book Connections [17], and the late Dr.=20 Karla Turner investigated MILABs in her books Into the Fringe and=20 Taken: Inside the Alien-Human Abduction Agenda [20]. A worldwide survey revealed that most North American abduction=20 researchers have on average, between two and five MILAB cases in their=20 files. At present, it seems to me that there are no UFO-related MILABs=20 in Australia, South America, Africa, Europe, England or Ireland. I=20 compared typical UFO abduction scenarios that were described in Dan=20 Wright's MUFON Abduction Transcription Project with ten well=20 investigated MILAB victims: Casey Turner, Katharina Wilson, Leah=20 Haley, Debbie Jordan, "Polly," "Pat," "Lisa," "Beth," "Angie" and=20 "Amy." The last six names are pseudonyms of abductees from the late=20 Dr. Karla Turner's book Taken [20]. What I found were many differences=20 between abductions by alleged alien beings and abductions by military=20 personnel. MILABs involve the following elements: Dark, unmarked helicopter activity, the appearance of strange vans=20 or buses outside the houses of abductees, exposure to disorienting=20 electromagnetic fields, drugging, and transport by a helicopter,=20 bus or truck to an unknown building or an underground military=20 facility. Usually after the military kidnappings there are physical=20 aftereffects such as grogginess and sometimes nausea. There is also=20 a difference when the abductors appear. In most UFO abduction=20 cases, the beings appear through a closed window, wall, or the=20 abductee feels a strange presence in the room. Most abductees=20 report that they are paralyzed from the mental power of the alien=20 beings. During MILABs the abductee reports that the kidnappers give=20 him or her a shot with a syringe. It is also interesting that MILAB=20 abductees report that they are examined by human doctor's in=20 rectangular rooms and not in round sterile rooms, as they are=20 described during most UFO abductions [4, 5, 6, 7]. The described=20 rooms, halls and furniture are similar to terrestrial hospital=20 rooms, laboratories or research facilities and have nothing to do=20 with "UFO" furniture. During a MILAB, the examination is similar as during UFO=20 abductions, however, the MILAB victim is not paralyzed, but rather,=20 tied to an examination table or a gynecological chair. Sometimes,=20 the abductee gets a strong drink before the examination. This is=20 perhaps a contrast-enhancing fluid. MILAB doctors are usually=20 dressed in white lab coats and show an interest in implants as well=20 as gynecological examinations. In some MILAB cases military doctors=20 searched for implants and sometimes even implanted the abductee=20 with a military device. Therefore, surgeons extracting alleged=20 alien implants should be prepared in the event they find military=20 devices since human implant technology is very advanced. =20 IV. Terrestrial Implants To date, more than 3 million animals worldwide have been successfully=20 implanted with an implantable transponder manufactured by=20 Destron-Fearing [21]. The implantable transponder is a passive radio=20 frequency identification tag, designed to work in conjunction with a=20 compatible radio-frequency ID reading system. The transponder is=20 activated by a low-frequency radio signal. It then transmits the ID=20 code to the reading system. The smallest transponder is about the size=20 of an uncooked grain of rice. The transponder's tiny electronic=20 circuit is energized by the low-power radio beam sent by a compatible=20 reading device. A similar bio-chip for humans was developed by Dr. Daniel Man in the=20 United States. Dr. Daniel Man has held a U.S. patent for a homing=20 device since 1989, that can be implanted in humans [22]. He developed=20 the implant for solving the missing children problem. This device is=20 slightly larger than the Destron implant and cannot be injected with a=20 special syringe. Instead, a small surgical incision must be made for=20 it to be implanted. It is important to note, that Dr. Man claims that=20 the best location for his implant may be behind the ear. MILAB=20 abductees like Debbie Jordan have reported that doctors have removed=20 implants from their ears! Dr. Man says that the device is powered by a small battery that can be=20 routinely charged with a device that is held outside the body near the=20 location of the implant. Those individuals in charge of monitoring the=20 implants (and therefore the people) could use three satellites or=20 specially equipped helicopters if they wanted to find a missing=20 person. By using triangulation to follow the signal from the implant,=20 satellites or the helicopters could pinpoint the implant's exact=20 location. Before Dr. Man's device becomes available for use in humans=20 in the United States, it will have to be approved by the U.S. Food and=20 Drug Administration. An agency interested in monitoring physiological information from an=20 abductee during a UFO abduction could use biomedical telemetry.=20 Biomedical telemetry is defined as a special area of biomedical=20 instrumentation that permits the transmission of physiological=20 information from an often inaccessible location to a remote monitoring=20 site [23]. The transmitting unit can be implanted within a subject's=20 body. Animals have been monitored with biotelemetry for about 30 years=20 now. By using telemetric systems as a method of monitoring abductees,=20 the military could obtain physiological data, such as respiration,=20 muscle tension, and the presence of adrenaline in the bloodstream. There is evidence that the military developed Dr. Man's implant=20 technology years ago. Research in the observation and control of human=20 behavior and its possible use in rehabilitation was performed during=20 the sixties. National Security experts like Dr. Steven Metz and Dr.=20 James Kievit predicted in their report The Revolution in Military=20 Affairs and Conflict Short of War for the US Army War College, that in=20 the near future every American at risk could be equipped with an=20 electronic individual position locator device (IPLD) [24]. They=20 suggested that such a device could be permanently implanted under the=20 skin with automatic remote activation upon departure from the United=20 States, while passing through a security screening system at the=20 airport, for example. The predictions by these national security=20 experts resemble the plans of Dr. Joseph A. Meyer, a computer=20 specialist with the National Security Agency (NSA). During the=20 seventies, Dr. Meyer proposed attaching transponders to all Americans=20 arrested for various crimes [2]. During the late fifties and early sixties neuroscientist Dr. Jose=20 Delgado invented the stimoceiver, a electrode capable of receiving and=20 transmitting electronic signals via FM radio waves. Such a device=20 implanted in the brain via the sinus cavity for example, will act as a=20 powerful stimulant when activated by FM radio waves. One can suggest=20 that the stimoceiver has since been modified to receive stimulation=20 from microwave pulses and is capable of wielding a surprising degree=20 of control over the implanted victim's response mechanisms [25]. Implants were being used on unwitting persons as early as fifty years=20 ago. One well documented case of the implantation of an electronic=20 device into a victim is the case of Robert Naeslund. Mr. Naeslund=20 claims that he was unwittingly implanted during an operation in=20 Stockholm, Sweden. He has X-rays which clearly show a mushroom-shaped=20 device in his brain. He claims that the operation was performed by Dr.=20 Curt Strand, who inserted the device in his head through the right=20 nasal passage [26]. The transnasal approach to implants is in common use in Neurosurgery=20 [27, 28, 29, 30, 31]. Interestingly, alien abductees have been=20 reporting since the sixties, how alien beings have implanted them by=20 placing small objects up their noses through the nasal passage and=20 sinus cavity. Alleged alien abductees and mind control victims relay=20 that either alien doctors or human doctors performed these procedures. Robert Naeslund is not alone, he is now a researcher of Gruppen, an=20 organization against illegal mind control experiments. Gruppen and=20 other organizations like the Freedom of Thought Foundation have=20 collected a lot of evidence that a secret implantation program is=20 underway [26, 27]. These organizations are in contact with many=20 victims from all over the world who have experienced similar effects=20 as Naeslund, but have nothing to do with the UFO community. =20 V. Virtual Reality Scenarios and Microwave Hearing It appears that some experiences of alleged alien abductees and mind=20 control victims may be explained by an advanced virtual reality=20 technology. The late Dr. Karla Turner called these experiences Virtual=20 Reality Scenarios (VRS) [19, 20]. There are alleged mind control=20 victims who claim that someone implants pictures in their brain [32].=20 If someone has been implanted with an intracerebral device, then the=20 implant operators may be able to electronically implant pictures and=20 memories into the brain of the abductee. The New World Vistas was a major undertaking for the USAF Scientific=20 Advisory Board (SAB) [33]. This military publication was published in=20 June 1996 and is a forecast of possible military developments over the=20 next 50 years. In this publication, military scientists suggest that=20 the development of electromagnetic energy sources, the output of which=20 can be pulsed, shaped, and focused and coupled with the human body=20 will be able to: 1) allow one to prevent voluntary muscular movements,=20 2) control emotions and actions, 3) produce sleep, 4) transmit=20 suggestions, 5) interfere with both short-term and long-term memory,=20 and 6) both produce and delete an experience set. The military scientists argue that the concept of imprinting a virtual=20 reality experience set is highly speculative, but nonetheless highly=20 exciting. If such a technology was developed in secret and exists=20 today, the unexplainable vividness of some abduction accounts may be=20 explained by the implantation of an experience set into the brain of=20 an abductee. Dr. Joseph Sharp and Allen Frey experimented with=20 microwaves and transmitted spoken words directly into the audio cortex=20 via pulsed-microwaves. Dr. Frey's work in this field, dating back to=20 the sixties, gave rise to the so called "Frey Effect," which is=20 commonly known as "microwave hearing" [34, 35]. Again, alleged alien abductees and mind control victims sometimes=20 report that they hear voices in their heads, although they are not=20 schizophrenic. Certainly these scenarios cannot be the case for all=20 UFO abductions like multiple abductions, but it may explain a small=20 portion and may play a significant role in MILABs. =20 VI. Otherworldly Journeys and Underground Military Facilities It is interesting to note, that seven abductees of my test sample=20 claim that they were allegedly transported to a military underground=20 facility. The research of Dr. Richard Sauder showed that almost every=20 federal agency and military institution has several secret underground=20 facilities across the United States. Some of these facilities are so=20 secret that there are only rumors about their existence [36].=20 Otherworldly Journeys to strange underground places are common in UFO=20 abductions and Dr. Thomas Bullard found a specific pattern in=20 Otherworldly Journeys in his abduction research [4, 5]. 1.) Preparation: The alien beings put the abductee into a protective=20 environment for the trip. 2.) Travel: Actual transit to the Otherworld occurs. 3.) Underground: The abductee passes underground.=20 4.) Landscape: The abductee sees the surface of the Otherworld. 5.) Museum: The tour of the Otherworld includes a stop at a museum or=20 zoo. In Dr. Bullard's study there are 10 UFO abduction cases where the=20 abductee experienced an Otherworldly Journey in an underworld, during=20 their UFO abduction. A typical Otherworldly Journey is Betty=20 Andreasson's experience in 1950. She experienced seeing a UFO plunge=20 into a sea and come out again, and then enter huge crystalline caverns=20 which broadened into a vast underworld. Less frequently the=20 examination occurs on the Otherworld. During an abduction experience=20 in 1967 Betty Andreasson passed through a long dark tunnel similar to=20 a mine shaft cut out of rock. In addition, Dr. Gilda Moura informed me=20 that she has investigated UFO abduction cases during which abductees=20 reported Otherworldly Journeys into underground caves in Brazil. It is interesting that these Otherworldly Journeys are not comparable=20 to well investigated MILAB underground cases. The Otherworldly Journey=20 experiences have a mystical quality, while the MILAB underground=20 experiences seem to be a manifestation in our reality. MILAB abductees=20 describe elevators, hallways, generators, conference and medical=20 rooms. Contrary to experiences during Otherworldly Journeys, if a=20 MILAB abductee is kidnapped to an underground facility, the abductors=20 examine the victims there. Some abductees report Otherworldly Journeys=20 and MILAB experiences separately [16, 20]. Beth, an abductee from Dr.=20 Turner's book Taken: Inside the Alien-Human Abduction Agenda,=20 described flashbacks which began with her seeing a small flying disc=20 and then entering a well lit underground city [20]. The craft flew=20 through a tunnel passage into an enormous cavern that contained=20 several buildings. UFOs were parked in various locations and alien=20 beings were working side by side with human military personnel. In her=20 next flashback Beth somehow flew through a body of water and into a=20 tunnel, and then emerged from a lake. Such flashbacks should be investigated very carefully since they could=20 be a mixture of an Otherworldly Journey (entering a well lit=20 underground city) and a MILAB underground experience (seeing military=20 personnel). It is also important to note that some abductees have=20 flashbacks and they remember aliens and military personnel together,=20 but during hypnosis the abductee remembers only the military personnel=20 [15, 37]. It is possible the abductee mixed an alien abduction=20 experience and a MILAB scenario, or that the abductee underwent some=20 kind of hypno-programming by military psychiatrists during the MILAB.=20 It is also possible that the military is using Electronic Dissolution=20 of Memory (EDOM). This is accomplished by electronically jamming the=20 brain, causing the neurotransmitter acetylcholine to create static=20 which blocks out sight and sounds. After this mind control procedure a=20 MILAB abductee would have no memory of what he or she saw or heard.=20 The mind of the abductee would be blank [2, 19, 25]. VII. Discussion We must consider the possibility that some of the information we are=20 getting from MILAB abductees may be cover stories, induced by the=20 hypno-programming processes of military psychiatrists. There is also=20 the possibility that the military uses rubber alien masks and special=20 effects during a MILAB. MILAB abductee Katharina Wilson reports=20 flashbacks where she remembered holding a rubber mask of an alien head=20 in her hands [16]. Facts such as these lead some mind control=20 researchers to believe that all alien abductees are used in secret=20 mind control and/or genetic experiments staged by a powerful black arm=20 of the United States government [2]. However, I have found some=20 arguments against this over generalization: 1.) If all alien abductions are a cover for secret mind control or=20 genetic experiments like the Lebensborn Project of the Nazis [38],=20 why have abductees only reported military intelligence involvement=20 since the early eighties and not before? We should see the=20 opposite of this, since the mind control technology would be much=20 better in the nineties than it was during the sixties and=20 seventies! 2.) Why are there mind control victims who are implanted and used for=20 secret weapons tests, but have nothing to do with the UFO=20 phenomenon or alien abductions? It seems to me that the "mind=20 control agenda" does not need UFO abductions as a cover story,=20 since nobody believes the claims of ordinary mind control victims=20 in the first place, although they have X-rays where everyone can=20 see anomalous objects in their heads. 3.) If all alien abductions are a cover for mind control experiments,=20 why does the military perform gynecological examinations of female=20 abductees? Serious researchers should investigate all possibilities. Some UFO=20 abductees may indeed be mind control victims or they may have been=20 used in black-ops genetic experiments from the eighties or earlier.=20 However, I think there is another motive that is more plausible for=20 the military's involvement in the UFO abduction phenomenon. My=20 preliminary hypothesis for alleged military kidnappings of UFO=20 abductees is as follows: MILABs could be evidence that a secret military intelligence task=20 force has been operating in North America since the early=20 eighties, and is involved in the monitoring and kidnapping of=20 alleged UFO abductees. In the early 1980s, a lot of money became available for top secret=20 military projects like the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI). I=20 believe this secret task force may be financed by a portion of this=20 money that is set aside for SDI. It is no coincidence that the genesis=20 of SDI and the reports of military intelligence personnel interfering=20 with abductees coincide with one another. It seems to me that they are=20 interested in well investigated abduction cases. They monitor the=20 houses of their victims, kidnap and possibly implant them with=20 military devices shortly after a UFO abduction experience. It appears=20 to me that they are searching for possible alien implants as well.=20 Their gynecological interest in female abductees could be explained if=20 they are searching for alleged alien-hybrid embryos. One thing I'm=20 sure of is, this task force and the people who are behind these=20 kidnappings are using advanced mind control technology which is=20 currently being tested illegally on individuals who have nothing to do=20 with UFO abductions. Victims and researchers who are interested in this study or have=20 important information they wish to share can contact me at the=20 following address: Dr. Helmut Lammer=20 Postfach 76=20 A-8600 Bruck/Mur=20 Austria=20 Email: lammerh@bkfug.kfunigraz.ac.at=20 Dr. Lammer is a scientist with the Austrian Space Research Institute.=20 He is the Austrian representative for the Mutual UFO Network and a=20 member of the Society for Scientific Exploration, SSE. Dr. Lammer has=20 co-authored two previous books with Oliver Sidla. They are UFO Secrecy=20 (Herbig: Munich, 1995) and UFO Close Encounters (Herbig: Munich,=20 1996). The previous information covering "Project MILAB" is a sample of the=20 information that is contained in his third book which is scheduled to=20 be published in the Autumn of 1997. His current working title is=20 Covert Operations: Military Involvement in Mind Control Experiments=20 and UFO Abductions. Notes: [1] Pritchard, E., David, and Mack, E., John: Alien Discussions:=20 Proceedings of the Abduction Study Conference held at MIT.=20 Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1994. [2] Cannon, Martin: The Controllers: A new Hypothesis of Alien=20 Abductions. http://members.gnn.com/fivestring/idex.htm =20 (Archives Section), 1989. [3] Personal Communications with Professor David Jacobs, 1996. [4] Bullard, Thomas E.: UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery.=20 Volume 1: Comparative Study of Abduction Reports. Bloomington,=20 Indiana, 1987. [5] Bullard, E., Thomas: UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery.=20 Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases. Bloomington, Indiana, 1987. [6] Wright, R., Dan: Commonalities & Disparities: Findings of the=20 MUFON Abduction Transcription Project. MUFON International UFO=20 Symposium Proceedings, 1995. [7] Personal Communications with Dan Wright, head of the MUFON=20 Abduction Transcription Project, 1996. [8] Adams, Tom: Mystery Helicopters. Paris, Texas, 1993. [9] Howe, L., Moulton: Glimpses of Other Realities. Volume. 1: Facts=20 and Eyewitnesses. Linda Moulton Howe Productions, P.O. Box 538,=20 Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania 19006, 1993. [10] Keith, Jim: Black Helicopters over America-Strikeforce for the=20 New World Order. IllumiNet Press, Linburn, Georgia, 1994. [11] Personal Communications with Raymond Fowler and several=20 publications like: Casebook of a UFO Investigator. Englewood=20 Cliffs, New Jersey, Prentice Hall Inc., 1981. [12] Clarke, David, and Watson, Nigel: Phantom Helicopters over=20 Britain. Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR), P.O. Box 277, Mount=20 Rainer, Maryland 20712, USA. [13] Jordan, Debbie, and Mitchell, Abducted: The Story of the=20 Intruders Continue. Carroll & Graf, New York, 1994. [14] Strieber, Whitley: Breakthrough-The Next Step. HarperCollins, New=20 York, 1995. [15] Haley, A., Leah: Lost was the Key. Greenleaf Publications,=20 Tuscaloosa, Alabama, 1993. [16] Wilson, Katharina: The Alien Jigsaw. Puzzle Publishing, Portland,=20 Oregon, 1993. [17] Collins, Beth, and Jamerson, Anna: Connections-Solving our Alien=20 Abduction Mystery. Wild Flower Press, Newberg, Oregon, 1996. [18] Fowler, Raymond: The Andreasson Affair Phase Two. Englewood=20 Cliffs, New York, Prentice-Hall, 1982. [19] Wilson, Katharina: Project Open Mind: Are Some Alien Abductions=20 Government Mind Control Experiments?=20 http://www.alienjigsaw.com 1996. [20] Turner, Karla: Into the Fringe, Berkley Book, New York, 1992; and=20 Taken: Inside the Alien-Human Abduction Agenda, Kelt Works,=20 Roland Arkansas, 1994; [21] Electronic ID in Horses. Electronic ID, Inc., 131 East Exchange=20 Avenue, Suite 116, Fort Worth, Texas 76106, USA. [22] Laugesen, Wayne: Satan's Leash: The Specter of Biometric=20 Identification. Encounter Chronicles, Issue 17, September 1996. [23] Jutter, C., Dean, Wen, H., Ko., Spear, M., Thomas, Mackay,=20 Stuart: Biomedical Telemetry. Engineering in Medicine and Biology=20 Magazine, March, 1993. [24] Metz, Steven, and Kievit, James: The Revolution in Military=20 Affairs and Conflict Short of War. Strategic Studies Institute,=20 US Army War College, Juli 1994. [25] Bowart, H., Walter: Operation Mind Control: Our Secret=20 Government's War Against its Own People. Dell Publishing Company,=20 New York, 1978. [26] Private communication with Robert Naeslund and: Naeslund, Robert:=20 Letter to Prime Minister Carl Bildt, Stockholm, November 19,=20 1992. [27] Lindquist, Lennart, Taylor, Evamarie, Naeslund Robert: Cybergods.=20 Gruppen, Stockholm, Sweden, 1996. [28] Hardy, J.: Transsphenoidal Hypophysectomy. J. Neurosurg., Vol.=20 34, page 582-594, 1971. [29] Griffith, H., B., et al.: A direct transnasal approach to the=20 Spenoid Sinus. Technical note, J. Neurosurg, Vol. 66, page=20 920-924, 1987. [30] Rabadan, A., et al.: Transmaxillary, Transnasal Approach to the=20 Anterior Clivus: A Microsurgical Anatomical Model. Neurosurgery,=20 30(4), page 473-482, 1992. [31] Rosenfeld, J., V.: Transnasal Stereotactic Biopsy of a Clivus=20 Tumor. J. Neurosurg, Vol. 76(5), page 878-879, 1992. [32] Private communications with alleged mind control victims. =20 [33] New World Visitas: Air and Space Power for the 21st Century. USAF=20 Scientific Advisory Board, June, 1996. [34] Guyatt, David: Some Aspects of Anti-Personnel Electromagnetic=20 Weapons. Earthpulse Flashpoints, Nr. 2, 1996. [35] Constantine, Alex: Psychic Dictatorship in the USA. Feral House,=20 Portland, Oregon, 1995. [36] Sauder, Richard: Underground Bases and Tunnels-What is the=20 Government Trying to Hide? Dracon Press, 1995. [37] Hamilton, F., William III: Alien Magic: UFO=20 Crashes-Abductions-Underground Bases, Global Communications,=20 page: 104-106, 1996. [38] Clay, Catrine, and Leapman, Michael: Master Race-The Lebensborn=20 Experiment in NAZI Germany. Acknowledgements: Walter Andrus (MUFON), Brian Bard, Keith Basterfield, Dr. Richard=20 Boylan, John Carpenter, Dr. Aphrodite Clamar, Padrick J. Delaney=20 (IUFOPRA), Ann Druffel, Prof. David Jacobs, Dr. William E. Jones,=20 Raymond Fowler, Harlan Girard, David Guyatt, Leah Haley, Cindia Hind,=20 Richard Hall (FUFOR), Dr. James Harder, Edmund Light, G. Mackay,=20 Philip Mantle (BUFORA), Dr. Gilda Moura, Robert Naeslund (Gruppen),=20 Dr. Richard Sauder, Derrel Sims, Barbara Spellerberg, Dr. Leo=20 Sprinkle, the late Dr. Karla Turner, Katharina Wilson, Dan Wright head=20 of the MUFON Abduction Transcription Project, and my wife Marion for=20 their help in his project and all the other victims and researchers=20 who participated in this study. =A91996 by Helmut Lammer, Ph.D. All Rights Reserved. The preceding is=20 reproduced with permission of the Author. Permission is given to=20 reproduce and redistribute in printed form, for non-commercial=20 purposes only, provided the information and the copy remain intact and=20 unedited. This paper was published on the web site --=20 http://www.alienjigsaw.com -- "The Alien Jigsaw: True Experiences of Alien Abduction," by=20 Katharina Wilson: Puzzle Publishing, P.O. Box 230023, Portland,=20 Oregon, 97281-0023, USA. The Alien Jigsaw and the "Puzzle Piece Logo"=20 are trademarks of Puzzle Publishing.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:16:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:06:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory My friend the Duke of M. writes (re Michael Persinger): > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> > To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > As for Persinger being a debunker, I beg leave > to doubt that he's doing anything more wicked than being parsimonious > - trying to find a natural explanation for anomalous events (and if > it don't work, eliminate it) before going on to "magical" ones, e.g. > "UFOs are alien spaceships". Not to step in betweeen Peter and Chris R. on this one (though I must say that after seeing Persinger on TV, I'm not convinced his claims are in any way modest). But..."natural" explanations of UFOS vs. "magical" ones? And alien spaceships are a "magical" explanation? Do I detect a loading of the dice? For all we know, with our presently limited knowledge of the universe around us, alien spaceships may be as common as rush-hour traffic on the Gowanus Parkway. Or they may not be. But to presume either circumstance -- to decide that aliens are as natural as raccoons in the suburbs, or as magical as the Wicked Witch of the West (or was that the Wicked Witch of Zeta Reticuli?) -- seems to me entirely illegitimate. We just don't know. Comments, Peter? Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: New World Vistas From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:10:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:10:46 -0500 Subject: Re: New World Vistas >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: USAF Scientific Advisory Board (SAB) [33]. >From: alaskantwk@juno.com (CARTER MORGAN) >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:51:12 EST >New World Vistas >Errol, would you provide the address to obtain this >publication from the Air Force. Thanks. _This_ is the actual address Carter..... http://web.fie.com/htdoc/fed/afr/sab/any/text/any/vistas.htm long and interesting reading. Regards, ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:14:34 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:08:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Does anyone has a transcript or any info around the supposed Italian interview with Volker Spielberg? Jorgen/WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 BWW MA Flash! From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:02:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:09:21 -0500 Subject: BWW MA Flash! Bufo Calvin, P.O. Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED Just jumping in with a quick note. I also have had to use a list which is a generation or two back, since I am not at my main computer. I tried to weed the drops, but I apologize if I missed you. Dr. Norman Bergrun will be Jeff Rense's END OF THE LINE radio program tonight from 6-8 PM Pacific (8-11 PM Eastern). I've never met him, but one of his representatives has been very nice, so I thought I'd plug it. Dr. Bergrun is the author of RINGMAKERS OF SATURN, which say that giant spaceships have been photographed in the rings of Saturn, and in fact, create those rings. The book includes photographs. You can also hear this program over the Internet, so if you have an appropriate computer, you can hear it. For info on END OF THE LINE, check their website at http://www.endoftheline.com. To hear the program over the Internet, go to http://www.talkamerica.com. Get there soon enough to download and install their software! I'm working on instructions for that for the next time (I'm on ;) ), but don't have them ready yet. Oh, and if you want to see a (just for fun) horoscope for you for the Chinese New Year, just let me know. I didn't do it, I'm taking it from a book I've had for many years by Paula Del Sol. This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:52:52 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:04:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:25:34 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: skaeser@nmaa.org (Steve Kaeser) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Steve, > Please understand that these thoughts are merely my opinions, and nothing > more. I have been watching this matter since it first hit the "net" in > January of '95 and have communicated with a number of the principals in > this. My comments are based on those communications and my memory. To be > quite honest, I have avoided making broad statements regarding the "film" > to avoid being drawn into an endless debate. But these questions were > raised, and I have decided to respond with some of my thoughts: In all honesty, I didn't realize that I had raised so many questions with my previous message. ;) I too have followed this thing from the beginning. > Perceptions can indeed be wrong, but the comments I have heard come from > those who knew Ray long before his involvement with the Santilli "film", > and most of them come from those who don't like his methods. I don't doubt that. He does seem a little weasely to me, but that is only my opinion of course. > Obviously Ray couldn't be the only person involved in this, even if it is > faked. The creation of the video would have required a set, props, actors, > not to mention the model makers and special effects help. The special > effects community is fairly close, and it would be likely that an effort by > a known special effect shop would have been recognized. Those who perform > this type of hoax usually come forward to claim their due credit, and laugh > at those who were fooled. This may yet occur, but so far it has not. > > Ray has been quite honest in admitting that he knows more than he's > telling. He obviously knows the source of the "film" or video, and has > provided a story that we can either accept or reject. If we reject it out > of hand, then we are left with the "film"/video without any provenance > whatsoever. If we accept it, we are faced with even more questions than > answers and there is no way to track it much further. Neither solution is > a good one, and both rely primarily on our "gut reaction" rather than > evidence. I agree with most of what you stated in your first paragraph. But the thing is we have absolutely nothing to go on without the film or the cameraman. Ray Santilli is the ONLY one who can provide the provenence genesis of this video/film. He is the one who presented this to the world and it is he who holds all the answers. The story provided by Ray that we are to accept or reject has been thoroughly gone over and has been proven to be full of holes. Why do you give it any credence to the story provided by Ray? Can you list anything that gives any credibility to the story at all? > An honest opinion, and I appreciate that you didn't state it as fact. > > I know many businessmen who hold their cards close to their vest, and like > the feeling of power they feel as they move forward in their business. > Employees and customers might feel that they had been deceived at times by > some decisions, but they were reached through careful thought, or perhaps > on a whim, by the person who holds the power to make such changes. Ray is > spokesman for those who control the "film" (or controls it himself) and > changes in his position regarding the "film" may be economic from his > perspective, and don't prove that he is merely trying to be devious. Ray > would be the first to admit that he opens his mouth too much at times, and > has made statements that have come back to haunt him. But those that I've > seen were explainable as misquotes or poor judgement. Neither of which > serve as evidence, one way or the other. As far as Ray's deception goes, I can state a one important fact. Ray did purposefully and blatantly lie about Harry Truman being visible in the video. He told numerous people (Stan Friedman, Reg Presley, Colin Andrews and I believe Phillip Mantle and Michael Hessesman) that Truman was visible in the film and that is not true. As a matter of fact we could have Stanton Friedman confirm what Ray told him. I have Stan on tape on Don Ecker's UFOs Tonite radio show stating that Ray told him President Truman was visible on the film at the crash site and that it was so clear that you could read Truman's lips. When Ray was asked about this in a recent TV interview with Sightings, Ray gave a convoluted answer saying yes it was a descrepancy, but never denying that he said it. > Do you know much about Ray? Are you aware of his involvement in other > entertainment areas? It is my understanding that Ray would rather let this > entire matter go away at this point, but Volker wants to get the rest of > the "film" out to maximize his profits. Ray, on the other hand, isn't > exactly jumping at the prospect of being hounded by UFOlogists and the > press. The fact is that Ray doesn't need this "film" to pull him away from > more profitable pursuits. This is all irrelevant to the question of whether the film is real or not. But if they really wanted to maximize their profits they could have had the film tested and proved it's authenticity a long time ago. If real this would have made the film worth much more than what they have made so far. This one thing alone suggests that they know the video/film is not real. Another act of deception on Ray's part was the claimed testing of the 3 frames of film by Bob Shell. Ray never bothered to tell Bob that what he had sent him was print film and not the original camera negative. Somehow Bob didn't recognize the difference between print and negative film and at first we were led to believe that this film might be real. It wasn't until later that researcher Clive Tobin learned that what Bob had in his possesion was actually print film and not camera negative. > Don't get your hopes up. I had heard that the FUJI-TV showing was about > half the length of the original, but those that have seen it say that it > contains no new information. The only new information is the image of the > alleged cameraman, and that (as you note) is of questionable value. I've seen the video and can confirm that there is nothing new here. The still captures that have been seen on the internet are probably about as good as any in the video. I'm sure anyone who wants to see this video can probably aquire a copy thru channels. :) The copy I have seen just magically and anomymously appeared on my doorstep one morning. So I know there are copies of the Japanese broadcast out there. It would be even better if it were broadcast on TV to get the most exposure. > The problem is that I require proof from both sides in this issue to > convince me. I don't have proof that Santilli's scenerio is fake, and I > don't have proof that it is real. However, the lack of proof on one side, > does not IMHO add weight to the other side. It merely points to our lack > of knowledge. If Santilli's story is to be accepted, then the cameraman > must at least exist as far as he is concerned. The question of whether or > not the cameraman's a real person hasn't been answered, but for Ray he > would indeed be real. If Santilli's story is rejected, then this video is > one more effort on his part to prove his case. I suspect that the > cameraman "interview" was the result of an earlier agreement between Ray > and Kiviat regarding an interview. I think that Kiviat had hopes of > actually interviewing the "cameraman", but that later fell through. It is > my understanding that Kiviat provided the equipment, tape, and questions to > Ray, and they were forwarded to the "Cameraman". I think that Ray (with > his partners) decided to make a few extra bucks and sold a portion of it to > FUJI-TV, leaving Kiviat to release it in the U.S. Unfortunately, the > Internet has once again shown that it is making the world a smaller place > and much of what Kiviat has is now old news. I require proof as well, but it is not us who must prove that this is a hoax. It is the ones who hold the alleged film and the keys to the whereabouts of the alleged cameraman who should be held responsible for prooving this thing is real. They hold all the answers and can easily prove it's authencity. They have refused to do so thus far and until they do it should be considered a hoax. The burden of proof is theirs. I don't even want to speculate why the cameraman interview was released in Japan first. Hopefully Kiviat will soon be able to show this on US TV. It is probably our only chance that someone might recognize him. > > This entire debate will be raised a level or two if Ray actually releases > the other "autopsy/dissection" sequence. It certainly won't prove anything > by itself, but raises the level of complexity if it's a hoax. Among other > things, one will have to question why hoaxers would spend time and > materials in creating a sequence that is gynecological in nature, and > unshowable on television (in most places). Kiviat has gotten a lot of > criticism for his masking the crotch area in the FOX Network program he > created, and I can imagine the problems he would have with a sequence in > which one of the doctors allegedly sticks one arm into the creature up to > his elbow. From what I've heard, it is obviously not human, but that won't > appease the censors who would likely view this as objectionable. Might be able to sell it to Larry Flint. ;) Or better yet, Bob Gucionne is already into aliens. Remember the Penthouse Alien photos of the Roswell Museum dummy. What a hoot! ;O > There are obviously far more questions than answers with regard to the > Santilli "film". My instinct tells me that Ray will take advantage of the > 50th Anniversary of UFOLogy and release the rest of the video sometime this > Spring. Given the nature of the video, I would also suspect that direct > sales will make up a larger portion of the release this time around. The > images will all have a logo in the corner to identify it as copyrighted > material, which can help to limit the piracy that plagued his last release. > Will it help to prove anything. No. > But it will at least be interesting, and take the debate into areas where > it hasn't gone before. Yeah, that LOGO ought to really scare the video pirates. ;) Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Ontario, Canada Sightings From: UFO Joe <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> [Joe Daniels] Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:39:49 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:41:38 -0500 Subject: Ontario, Canada Sightings I am in the process of setting up a web site at http://cron-2.mco.net To start I am focusing on documenting UFO sightings in the Ontario, Canada area, and especially sightings in the London or Hamilton regions. If anyone out there can point me in the direction of some interesting stuff or URLs please let me know. Thank you for your time.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:41:00 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:03:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory Dear John, and one and all, Earth lights are probably of the same family as earthquake lights (EQLs) and ball lightning (BL), but also have their own characteristics. The two chief ones are: a) they tend to be *less* transient that EQLs and BL - lights at Hessdalen have lasted for 1 hour 40 minutes or more, for example. b) they do not need an earthquake or an electrical storm to manifest. (By the same token, not all quakes produce EQLs, and not all storms produce BL). However, they are probably making use of concatanations of geophysical forces that are particularly well-expressed in storms and quakes. When we know how EQLs and BLs are produced from the sea of forces around them, we'll have a better idea of what needs to go into the birth of an earth light. There are a number of other, subtler characteristics, but these are the main ones. I can say that our field work does tend to show that Persinger is right in his thought that changes in geomagnetic field may accompany EL appearances. There is plenty in the pipeline on ELs. Paul. (Paul Devereux)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:09:52 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:43:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > Date: 11 Feb 97 09:34:04 EST > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> > To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > Compliments of the Duke of Mendoza... > > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:54:04 -0500 > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > > > I think Chris was confining himself to Dr. P's work so I don't > > see the content of this excerpt as representative of omission > > on his part. > I was being uncharacteristically polite, trying on a mantle [sic] > of British understatement, so forth. Maybe not such a good idea. > So how about: > > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations'? > > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > > Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:18:48 -0600 (CST) > > Persinger's theory originally was called the Tectonic Strain Theory > > (TST) of UFOs because he was adamant that all UFO sightings, reports > > and experiences could be explained as related to weak seismic events > > deep underground. > Slightly worse than an omission, indeed, because Dr P didn't claim > *all* UFOs could be explained thus. First straw man. > And then: > > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > > Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:19:35 -0600 (CST) > > Yes, his "lag" and "lead" time was clearly stated as 6 months. > > He would accept as correlated data a magnitude 3 seismic event > > 6 months before a nocturnal light observation several hundred > > miles away. [snip] > > There's one exception, of course, and that was when he "proved" > > that UFOs in Manitoba were correlated with weak seismic events in > > southern Minnesota, >700 km away. In that study, he used my own > > MANUFOCAT for the UFO data (in others, he admitted using newspaper > > clippings!). Since I know the demographics of the MANUFOCAT data, it > > was easy to see how silly his correlations were. And if that was > > typical of his methodology... The point here, Your Grace, since it seemed to got by you, is Persinger is using unrefined data. Then, Persinger postulates phenomena to explain this data which might more plausibly be explained as children releasing lighted balloons or other such foolishness. (Seems to me, if we wanted to demonstrate the UFO/TST connection we would want to get the best data possible for this correlation. I don't see Presinger tearing through CUFOS' files for such cases. Instead he is looking at the admittedly wild lot of Chris' database.) > Of course this sounds dozy - because it *omits* the notion that > tectonic pressure, EM forces or whatever may take months to build > up *and* are related to fault lines, water courses, etc etc, which > are both large and complex... ....and also not demonstrated! We have gone from the idea that there is a 40% correlation with UFO reports 2.5k away from fault lines to sesmic events 700k away. My, how we've grown. We have, have we not, heard of the inverse square and inverse cube laws? Piezo electric effects still obey the ordinary laws of physics. We have a rather neat job generating a light source high above the earth with low energy event hundreds of kilometers distant. Of course, if it is an electrical induced hallucination that requires rather low energy, as claimed, then that might not be so hard. However, with multiple witness sightings how are we going to get the same hallucinations? Have we heard similar before? Ah, yes. There was a UFO report yonder, and yonder are some powerlines. The UFO was caused by a mechanism which very complicated. The corona discharge from the power somehow detaches itself and floats free causing the local populous to see UFOs. Good explanation, and almost always works because there are powerlines everywhere. Of course, no one has every seen this happen. But the mass media, aviation magazines, and a number of engineers took it seriously; so it had a good long run for years. The Condon committee never took idea seriously, but one of its supporters who out klassed Klass with his ideas is listed as "a friend" by the commitee. Never mind if his ideas are loose he's on the right side. After all, he wasn't an evil ETer. > This could sound daft too: "Louise says > she got pregnant in Charleston, VA, last week because she fell off her > horse in Peshawar, Kashmir, in March 1994." However, we all know > enough soppy romantic plots to create any number of possible links > between the two events, so it makes implicit sense - we even know the > person telling us wants to dine out on the story, which is sure to be > more mind-boggling than we ever imagined. But *prima facie* it sounds > as if Louise thinks the force of gravity makes you great with child, > especially if a horse is present - a "silly correlation". Yes, it is, and it hardly seems to support your argument. > And so it goes on. As for Persinger being a debunker, I beg leave > to doubt that he's doing anything more wicked than being parsimonious > - trying to find a natural explanation for anomalous events (and if > it don't work, eliminate it) before going on to "magical" ones, e.g. > "UFOs are alien spaceships". Ah, do I see a strawman here also? I hadn't heard Chris say anything about ETH, and you certainly did not have that from me. However, I have seen Persinger on the tube a number of times with his "majic" helmet, and he sounded quite like a patent attorney trying to claim the world for his invention. Please forgive us for trying to be like patent examiners and pare the claim down to a more reasonable level. It is not an original idea that there are UFO like phenomena caused by sesmic events. It has been around since the early 1950s, and of course, Charles Fort before that. Dr. James McDonald wrote a paper on this and the energy required for such lights. I have for years argued that some UFO events are related to high energy sesmic releases(ie Earthquake lights). That this phenomenon could predict earthquakes seems to indicate there should be an urgent scientific examination except the is a great academic bias against UFOs. The situations is not at all helped by the unbelievely wild claims of the UFO buffs. Condon's "ban" continues. I have also puzzled over a rather rare phenomenon of "mountain lights" and other such things. Forgive me my skeptism, but if you have a mechanism that explains UFOs then it would seem logical that you will dive right into the middle of the best accumulated UFO files and not make sweeping claims using peripheral data. > However, he should, IMO, have called his > idea an hypothesis > rather than a theory. > What CSICOP makes of it is a separate issue. We can, I hope, handle more than one issue in a posting! > To omit that others have found some support > for the idea isn't quite on, either. I don't find Derr or others too convincing on this, either. I would like CSICOP to show some of their famed critical examination of the ideas of Persinger, Derr and others in this boat as they do for certain pseudo-sciences. Apparently Scheaffer did just that. I missed this, and stand corrected here. > None of which is to suggest I think Dr P's proposals or even his > data are foolproof. Here, here! > But there is more to the TST that makes sense > than grumpy Chris has let on, *and* it has the virtue of being > testable, which is more than you can say for most hypotheses in > ufology. I'm surprised some clown hasn't accused Dr P of issuing > "disinformation", although that isn't a bad description of what > Chris Rutowski has done to/with the TST. And very irritating it was > to read, too. > For chapter and verse on the other questions you (Steven J.) ask, > I gladly hand the torch to Paul, if he's inclined to take it. > best > P. Mendoza Bristlesmooch Regards, Jan Aldrich Search for other documents from or mentioning: jan | 101653.2205 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Preliminary findings of Project MILAB From: rfsignal@sprynet.com Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:53:52 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:07:07 -0500 Subject: Preliminary findings of Project MILAB >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:36:49 -0500 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Preliminary findings of Project MILAB ---------------big SNIP!----------------------- >Researchers in the field of mind control suggest that these cases are >evidence that the whole UFO abduction phenomenon is staged by the >intelligence community as a cover for their illegal experiments [2]. Let me assure you that not all abduction experiences can be explained as easily as being carried out by whatever military. In no way can there be such an explanation for all abductions. I will personally protest such a statement that infers military contact or influence in my personal experiences! Abduction cases are recorded around the world. Just as sightings involve different parts of the globe, so do the abductions. Although there might be the possibility that there are a number of abduction cases involving military interference, not all of the abduction cases are carried out by any military. My personal experience of two missing hours occurred in a remote area far removed from roads, in a mining camp during the year of 1951. In no way could there have been manmade craft as capable nor appeared as similar to the craft that I was then taken aboard. As for the two missing hours, I do remember what went on during the abduction scenario. In 1954, I was again abducted and saw personnel and craft not of this Earth! In no way could anything manmade be as capable or as unique as what I saw and touched during that abduction. Should you believe that any or all of the abductions are involvements of the military of any nation, then that is up to you. As for myself, I cannot sit still and see this go unchallenged. Certainly, there are pros and cons to this probability that there are military involvements in abduction scenarios. I can find no real fault in that approach. And, I can see the reasoning behind that statement, the research and so on. But to blanket all abductions with the label of 'Military Research' does not do anything to explain the lists of abductions that have occurred around the world. Please reply. Take care for now, Cathy Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 11 Strange HB Comet 'Facts' From: "Jane S. Derry" <derryj@galesburg.net> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:50:31 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:12:01 -0500 Subject: Strange HB Comet 'Facts' Other Strange HB Comet Facts 1) HB was discovered 20 months from perihelion. Most comets are discovered a month or two out. It's rare for them to be found 3 or 4 months out. Kohoutek blew minds in 1973 because it was found 7 months out -- the farthest out ever. Astronomers still can not explain why HB was even visible that far out - well beyond Jupiter. Furthermore, HB was later discovered on an Australian observatory sky survey photo in 1993 - 40 months out! 2) HB's orbit is almost exactly 90 degrees inclined to earth. (89.4 something - I say something because it keeps changing slightly which is also very weird.) 3) HB approached, and was discovered in Sagittarius. It was there for several years, in a spiral pattern very neatly staying in the 30 degree boundaries of Sagittarius. Sitchen said the 12th planet would come out of Sagittarius. 4) HB also has the same orbital period as the 12th planet - 36 hundred years. 5) As HB leaves the area of the earth this summer, it will track across the constellation Orion - above and parallel to the three belt stars in Orion. 6) After passing through Orion, HB will disappear into the region of the sky called the Duat by ancient Egyptians. It's between Orion and Leo. They believed this is where the souls of the dead should try to get to. 7) As HB is at its closest to the earth on March 22, 1997, it's almost precisely over the north pole of the sun. 8) HB will go over the north pole of the sun. Hyakutake passed directly over the north pole of the earth at an extremely close 9 million miles. Looking at a scale model of the solar system, this is phenomenal chance happening. Like two bullets shot from 100 feet hitting two flies a foot apart and knocking off the left wing of both. 9) Speaking of Hyakutake, it emitted a tremendous amount of X-rays as it passed the earth. They didn't expect any X-rays, much less the abundance they measured. 10) HB's perihelion (closest to the sun) is April 1, 1997. Hyakutake was May 1, 1996. 11) Either HB or Hyakutake alone would have been the brightest comets in a decade or more. 12) As HB is reaches its perihelion it also is right at the line crossing the 0 degree longitude of the celestial map of the earth. (That vertical line where the sun crosses as spring begins). Its also at its highest point in the sky from the earth's celestial equator AND is 45 degrees up from the celestial equator. 13) We've seen three major comet events since 94. July 20th 1994 saw the biggest chunk of Shoemaker Levy 9 hit Jupiter - exactly 25 years to the day after the Apollo moon landing! Estimates vary on how often comets hit Jupiter - anywhere from every 10k to 100k years. 14) HB crosses the celestial equator Dec. 5th. Richard Hoagland says this date is a significant alignment of Orion and will be the date when a secret pyramid chamber is opened. (I don't know what the Orion alignment is). (the other crossing of HB back across the celestial equator is June 27 1996 - I don't know if this means anything, but maybe somebody else does) 15) HB's "eyes" were seen July 23, 1996 - a year to the day after it was discovered. If you want my far out interpretation of this, it was a message from those who control the comet. The message, "we know when you first saw us, we see you.) 16) About every two months, they update the ephemeris of HB - it's predicted course. Even Brian Marsden of Harvard concedes there must be "non-gravitational" forces at work to alter HB's orbit. There have been enough observations of HB by now to calculate within feet where it will wind up, but something else is moving it. The last orbital update put it about 13 hundred miles closer to the sun than the previous calculations two months earlier. Not significant when compared to the diameter of the sun at nearly 1 million miles, but too much of a change to dismiss to any errors in calculations or observation. 17) HB was seen in October of 1995 by the Hubble throwing off a huge chunk - NASA's explanation. There were no thermal or gravitational forces strong enough way out there to cause this. (My own view is that the "chunk" was actually another body that HB is orbiting). Perhaps this is why NASA cut off the pictures from Hubble after this. About May, the flow of good pictures from big scopes also ceased. 18) The Gallileo space probe was very close to HB when it was out near Jupiter this past summer. Gallileo was used to photograph asteroids on its way out. NASA surely used it to image HB, although no pictures were ever released. 19) HB has an absolute magnitude of -1.7 -- very very bright. The absolute magnitude is how bright the comet would be if it were 1 au from the sun, and 1 au from the earth. The average brightness for a comet is 7. Only two this century have had absolute brightness' between 4 and 5. Absolute brightness -1.7 is really really phenomenal! 20) HB occulted the moon (the moon passed in front of it) this has never happened in comet history. 21) HB occulted (flew in front of) a star. This gave astronomers a chance to determine its exact size. Of the 7 teams that went out to observe this, 6 had weather or equipment problems. The results from the one remaining team were dismissed because HB made the star dim out for 10 seconds. They said the results couldn't be trusted because a 10 second dip in light would mean the comet was really huge (no I haven't worked out the size of HB based on this result) 22) HB will be bright in the sky in Mongolia during a solar eclipse. This has never happened with any comet. 23) HB passes very close to a number of often photographed deep sky objects. A magnificent sky show. Near its brightest, it will pass very close to the famous Andromeda galaxy, assuring thousands of photos will be taken and nobody will miss it. 24) Somebody using comets is trying to communicate with the people of earth smart enough to see the signs. I think its very clever. Not too "showy" like a huge landing of a space ship which might freak some people out - but signs there for people smart enough to figure them out. Add to all of the above the fact that JPL has been less than current with good and recent pictures. For example, after the latest controversy on the "thing" near HB, they hurriedly posted pictures from the observatory in Slovenia - current but not very good pictures. "For the honor is in the journey, not in the result" - Kryon "And the result is the journey through LOVE" - Armendeus "So tell the people you love, 'Good journey!'" - Tianca E-Mail address; derryj@Galesburg.net MY UFO PAGE address; http://www.Galesburg.net/~derryj GREAT SEX IN A BOTTLE!!! http://www.maidman.com/rvma/derry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:10:58 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:05:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Chris Rutkowski (rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca) Date: 11 Feb 97 09:34:04 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:21:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory Ahem ... Grumpy, am I? Harumph. You haven't seen grumpy, yet! > Persinger's theory originally was called the Tectonic Strain Theory > (TST) of UFOs because he was adamant that all UFO sightings, reports > and experiences could be explained as related to weak seismic events > deep underground. > Slightly worse than an omission, indeed, because Dr P didn't claim > *all* UFOs could be explained thus. First straw man. True, he didn't actually *say* that all UFOs were explained thus. He simply used *all* UFO reports as data in his analyses. Thus, *all* UFO sightings and reports were *related* to the seismic stresses. Straw man dealt with. Nice try. Next. > Yes, his "lag" and "lead" time was clearly stated as 6 months. > He would accept as correlated data a magnitude 3 seismic event > 6 months before a nocturnal light observation several hundred > miles away. [snip] > There's one exception, of course, and that was when he "proved" > that UFOs in Manitoba were correlated with weak seismic events in > southern Minnesota, 700 km away. In that study, he used my own >Of course this sounds dozy - because it *omits* the notion that >tectonic pressure, EM forces or whatever may take months to build >up *and* are related to fault lines, water courses, etc etc, which >are both large and complex... Well, that's a start ... admitting it sounds "dozy". Because it is. Let's see .. where does one start? "whatever" "may" take months to build up and are related to [insert arm-waving argument here]. There is no known geophysical mechanism that fits this description and can generate the kind of energy that we're talking about. >I beg leave >to doubt that he's doing anything more wicked than being parsimonious >- trying to find a natural explanation for anomalous events ... by coming up with a bizarre theory that uses scientific principles in unscientific ways. >To omit that others have found some support >for the idea isn't quite on, either. I didn't omit anything of the sort. There is no such support. If you're talking about Devereux's pendulum-dowsing efforts or Brady's plasmas inside rock core samples or Derr's ball lightning, they hardly have *anything* to do with supporting Persinger's TST. In fact, some would say they detract from it. >But there is more to the TST that makes sense >than grumpy Chris has let on, *and* it has the virtue of being >testable, which is more than you can say for most hypotheses in >ufology. I'm surprised some clown hasn't accused Dr P of issuing >"disinformation", although that isn't a bad description of what >Chris Rutowski has done to/with the TST. And very irritating it was >to read, too. Dear me, Peter, I'm sorry you were irritated. Perhaps you should have read some of the many published criticisms of the TST and of Devereux's earth lights. My long, in-depth analyses of the TST and earth lights has already been published and reported upon several times. I include Devereux's ELs, Persinger's TST in great detail, including a discussion of the energy requirements, other "supporting" evidence from the Vestigia group, Brady, Derr et al. I'll say it again, when it's looked at with care and in depth with scientific objectivity, the methodology and the TST falls apart completely. I'm hardly disinformimg anyone. I'm *educating* those who would support an otherwise sloppy piece of statistical mumbo-jumbo. Besides, it's *not* just me ... here is a list of others who found the TST wanting: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ My published criticisms of the TST: Geophysical Variables and Human Behavior: XVI. Some Criticisms. PERCEPTUAL AND MOTOR SKILLS, 58, 1984, pp. 840-842. Geophysical Variables and Behavior: XXXIV. Further Comments. PERCEPTUAL AND MOTOR SKILLS, 63, 1986, p. 18. Earthlights, earthquakes, UFOs and the TST; or, Who is Micahel Persinger and Why is He Saying Those Things About Me? INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER, 11 (1), 1986, pp. 4-8. Explaining Everything with the TST: A Response to Paul Devereux. INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER, 11 (6), 1986, p. 22. UFOs as Natural Phenomena. In: Evans, H. & Spencer, J., eds. UFOS 1947-1987: THE 40-YEAR SEARCH FOR AN EXPLANATION. London: Fortean Tomes, 1987. pp. 273-279. Geophysical Alternatives. In: Spencer, J. & Evans, H., eds. PHENOMENON. London: Futura, 1988. pp. 301-307. UFOs and Cancer? [with del Bigio, Marc] CANADIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION JOURNAL, 140, June 1, 1989, pp. 1258-1259. Radiative Processes and the Generation of UFO Experiences. INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER, 14 (5), 1989, pp. 9-11, 23. Critical Comments About Earth Lights and the TST. JOURNAL OF UFO STUDIES (n.s.), 2, 1990, pp. 144-146. The TST: Down for the Count. JOURNAL OF UFO STUDIES (n.s.), 2, 1990, pp. 166-168. .......................................................... Other Critical Works Mauge, C. "Persinger's Tectonic Strain Theory: Strengths and Weaknesses". MAGONIA, no. 24, November 1986, pp. 13-18. Campbell, S. "Lights of Fancy". PROBE REPORT, 3 (4), April, 1983. Campbell, S. "UFO Data [letter]". NEW SCIENTIST, September 15, 1983, p. 799. Campbell, S. "UFOS and Faults [letter]". NEW SCIENTIST, October 20, 1983, p. 217. ......................................................... There are other bits of information that may be relevant to the issue. For example, one of Persinger's scientists who supports the TST is Brian Brady of the USGS. Brady achieved notoriety several years ago when the USGS had to print an official retraction of his work because it was based on "speculative and vague evidence" and were "unconvinced of the scientific validity" of Brady's work. Another book by Persinger, TM and CULT ANALYSIS, was very unfavourably reviewed in CONTEMPORARY PSYCHOLOGY, 26 (5), 1981, being called "appalling", "pseudoscientific" and "misleading". The title of the review was "Fundamentals of Nonobjective Analysis"! ......................................................... Peter, I know you have good intentions, but I don't think your support of the TST or Devereux's earth lights is the best of choices. From a scientific perspective, neither theory has been fleshed-out with enough rigour to allow serious researchers the opportunity of endorsing them with some faith. It is *possible* that EM effects *may* be responsible for some aspects of UFO-related cases. However, this has not been demonstrated. Perhaps with some solid research efforts and a thorough examination of the data and methodology, the TST *might* be refinable to a point where it can be acceptable as a viable theory. But not yet. In fact, If you and Devereux and Persinger are interested, I might be interested in assisting the rigourous testing of the theory, based on my intense research and study of the TST as published. Regards, Scrooge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Feb 97 00:55:25 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:58:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory With the Compliments of the Duke of Mendoza... > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:16:18 -0500 > From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > But..."natural" explanations of UFOS vs. "magical" ones? And alien > spaceships are a "magical" explanation? Do I detect a loading of the > dice? No, you don't, Greg, and I am not about to start writing a book by way of a List exchange about the limitations of the ETH. Read "magical" as in Thomas Rice's tag-line (which may be what J. Allen Hynek said) about other people's/alien technology. Also set it in the context of parsimony, reductionism, simplicity, or Bill Ockham's sharp Latin Saw. If your coffee machine gives out big blue sparks when you turn it on, you first look inside and check the wiring (and maybe, ruefully, dig damp grounds out of the socket) before checking the house wiring, before calling the power company, before blaming a poltergeist. What we do know (or can eliminate from our enquiries, as Mr Plod says) is worth more than what we don't. There is nothing in science that didn't emerge from what was known (even if not understood) before. So we start there, and leave the rest till later. Which is not to forget Newton's remark about feeling that he had been playing with pebbles on a beach while the great ocean of truth lay all undiscover'd before him. He was part right some of the time, but he did pretty good for all that. Your friend Peregrine, Man In Black Laundry Service Provider to the NWO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Strange HB Comet 'Facts' From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:12:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:00:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Strange HB Comet 'Facts' Jane Derry wrote: >7) As HB is at its closest to the earth on March 22, 1997, it's almost >precisely over the north pole of the sun. Another nice fact: March 22 is also the date for Winter equinox for the Southern hemisphere (ie: the precise day that day & night duration are equal). This will be Summer equinox for you guys up on the other half....:) Jakes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 02:53:30 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:59:21 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' I wrote: >> I'd like to comment on this, since for several years I was >> involved in magnetic stimulation of the visual centers of >> the human brain, and wrote two papers on it. Jan Aldrich wrote: >Where these papers publish? May we please have the references? Marg, E. and Rudiak, D. Phosphenes induced by magnetic stimulation over occipital brain: description and probable site of stimulation. Optom. Vis. Science, 1994; 71: 301-11. (Describes type of induced phosophenes and mechanism of induction) Rudiak, D. and Marg, E. Finding the depth of magnetic brain stimulation: a revaluation. EEG and Clin. Neurophys., 1994, 5: 358-71 (Some minor discussion of visual magnetic stimulation and where it arises in the occipital cortex area) . Marg, E. Magnetostimulation of vision: direct noninvasive stimulation of the retina and visual brain. Optom. Vis. Science, 1991; 68: 427-40. (Historical review of magnetic stimulation of the visual system) Most papers, however, on the applications of neuromagnetic stimulators to the study of vision are on SUPPRESSION of visual response, not stimulation. It's damnably hard to get people to see even simple flashes of light. Forget about triggering complex, prolonged hallucinations. I've never heard of it ever being done. >> One colleague of mine wrote a paper in which he tried >> stimulating the visual areas of people who had become >> blind since birth. He said they reported briefly "seeing" >> more complex forms like people's faces, but for reasons >> unknown he withdrew the paper. Even if this anecdotal >> evidence was true, there has NEVER been any indication >> that stimulation of this kind can produce some complex, >> prolonged hallucination, much less shared hallucinations >> cross individuals. >This draft paper, I take it, is not available? A. Pascual-Leone, L. G. Cohen, F. T. Hambrecht, D. O'Rourke, C. V. Kufta, and M. Hallett, Noninvasive Demonstration of Functrional Capabilities of Human Visual Cortex After Peripheral Blindness, Draft Copy, 1991. I was later informed by Pascual-Leone that the paper had been withdrawn. I just did a Current Contents search, and it has never been published. Below is a quick overview of its contents: "SUMMARY: Elementary visual sensations (phosphenes) and complex visual images were evoked non-invasively by single-pulse transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) of the visual cortex in blind subjects. No visual sensations could be evoked in sighted controls." "... However, three (of the six) blind subjects reported visual sensations following TMS of the occipital areas. These were very brief ('about half a second', 'as short as the snap of a finger') ... Occasional, complex visual images were triggered by TMS of scap positions 2-6 cm above and lateral to [standard electode position at back of head along the midline]. TMS of the top of the head, or sensorimotor cortices did not evoke any visual sensations." The vast majority of reports were of simple shapes, colors, or flashes of light. There were three reports of seeing a face and three of more complex scenes: a moving train, a teacher writing on a blackboard in a classroom, a door opening. The authors hypothesized that the more complex images could be induced in some of the blind people because of hypersensitivity of the visual areas after loss of sensory input. This is commonly seen when sensory input is lost, for example, the hallucination of a phantom limb after amputation. My own experience with stimulating normal subjects is that it is difficult to get them to see anything. The commonly reported visual sensations are extremeley brief flashes of light, color, and very simple shapes like wedges, rectangles, indefinite blobs, or gridlike patterns. I was never able to get any sort of complex shape like a face, much less an alien abduction scenario or flying saucers. >As you are probably aware, there are several well known >figures in ufology who subscibe to the "Meta conspiracy" >of a "controling device" involved in ufology. Mind control >is their latest idea. Of course, the CIA and French >intelligence are deep in this thing. >My problem with some of the mind control advocates is that >they are not "kooks", and they have creditials and have >recognized research into brain functions. So while I don't >like the ideas, they still require a hearing. >The advocates talk about drugs, hyponism, and electrical >induced simulations as factors in planting incidents in the >mind-controled subjects. Alas, for the good old days when mind control consisted of nothing more than drugs, sex, and rock and roll! Now it's allegedly gone high tech. On a more serious note, human beings have being employing various means of "mind control" for thousands of years from the not so subtle (gun-to- the-head, physical torture, blackmail, threats to loved ones, bribery, terrorism, political imprisonment, sleepdeprivation, etc.) to the less obvious or kinder, gentler forms (propaganda, media control, disinformation, censorship, indoctrination, advertising, patriotism, peer pressure, popular culture, education, religion, etc.) Now why in the world we would need to add some fanciful "electro- magnetic mind control" or "chip implant mind control" to all these tried and proven methods is beyond me. It's also well beyond any of our current technological capabilities of interfacing with our nervous systems, which are crude in the extreme. Forget about implanting specific memories of alien abductions. That would be more easily done with hypnotic drugs and verbal suggestion, perhaps with a filmed episode played for the hypothetical victim of an evil government mind-control conspiracy. That wouldn't be too far from what is possible or maybe has already been done. But EM mind control ? Give me a break! I've never seen any evidence anywhere that there was anything to it. It sounds like a lot of paranoia or maybe deliberate disinformation to cover up something else. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: New World Vistas From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 05:33:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:01:27 -0500 Subject: Re: New World Vistas Those wishing a copy of the entire "New World Vistas" series should write an e-mail request to: jekielekg@af.pentagon.mil The publication date for NWV is June, 1996 and you will (of course) need to include your snail mail address. Of course, who knows what lists your name will appear on. . . . .<g>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Skywatch: Fresh UFO Sighting in Chile From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 03:57:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:04:41 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: Fresh UFO Sighting in Chile ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:34:50 -0400 From: Luis Sanchez Perry <lsanchez@chilesat.net> Organization: Waiting for Hale-Bopp To: SKYWATCH <skywatch@wic.net> Subject: Fresh UFO Sighting in CHILE Hi all, I was talking today with Mr. Rodrigo Fuenzalida (President of a Chilean UFO investigation group called AION, who will soon have his own web page) and told me a great UFO SHOW that took place this past weekend. Last Sunday, Feb. 9 - 1997, at 10:30 P.M. a UFO was seen by many witnesses in different location of the East part of=20 Santiago (capital of Chile). This is, at the feet of "Cordillera de Los Andes" at a place called "Lo Ca=F1a". The UFO descended slowly and then splited up in to two UFOs. One of the UFO's left heading South, the other stayed there. This second UFO started to descend more and then stopped.=20 Here comes the good part....aproximately 8 FU Fighters (balls of light) came out of this UFO. The amount of light emited lighted up about 12 blocks. The balls of fired changed colors and shape. They were like dancing (up, down and sideways). Electromagnetic effects were detected on radio equipment. The best of all is that the UFO's were detected by the=20 "Aerodromo de Tobalaba" (small airport for civilian and police airplanes and choppers) that is close to the site. This case has not hit the newspapers yet. Mr. Fuenzalida is collecting data from various sources and will be made public=20 soon. This show finish at 1:30 A.M. That same Sunday on a location called "Peldehue" (where NASA has various tracking antenas for space programs or something like that) a metallic sphear (ball) was seen by people that were camping there. This type of encounter during daylight is not common, what makes it very interesting. There is more, last year (Sept. - Oct. 1996) two landings were=20 registered with one close encounter (a lawyer) in the 9th region of Chile in the location of PORVENIR. On December 1996 in "Puerto Williams" (very South part of Chile) a huge flap of 200 (TWO HUNDRED) UFO's were seen.... Mr. Fuenzalida will be expanding more on these cases as soon as he gets his web page built... This was just a SINOPSIS... We are having a lot of sightings now. Greetings, Luis (lsanchez@chilesat.net) ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 03:55:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:03:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:50:12 -0700 (MST) To: skywatch@wic.net From: edwards@rmi.net (TIM EDWARDS) Subject: [Fwd: Re: Shargel article] Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:44:39 -0500 From: Robert Collins <rmcoll@sprintmail.com> Reply-To: rmcoll@sprintmail.com FYI Bob C _____ I asked Janet Hookailo, Director of Public Relations at Northeastern University, to check on student records for a "Lee Shargel." Here's her response. BTW, I interviewed "Lee Shargel" last night and couldn't get a straight answer to any question. I'm writing an article and welcome inputs from anyone with further information. - WT _____ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 13:00:49 EST To: <west@sonic.net> From: "janet hookailo" <Janet=Hookailo%Staff%UnivRel@nunet.neu.edu Subject: re: URGENT question re "Dr." Lee Shargel Northeastern University has no record of a student named Lee Shargel. Someone named Leon D. Shargel registered for one course in our part-time evening program in 1982. The university does not offer a degree in Quantum Physics or in Egyptian Quantum Mechanics. Founded in 1898, Northeastern is the nation's foremost practitioner of co-operative education. Our full-time undergraduate programs enroll nearly 11,000 students who alternate terms of traditional classroom instruction with terms of paid, professional employment in jobs related to their fields of study. Graduate enrollment stands at 2,300 full-time students. Part-time students account for another 11,000 enrollees. We offer a wide range of associate, bachelor's, master's and doctoral dregrees in the disciplines and professinal areas represented by our seven colleges, nine graduate and professional schools and two part-time and continuing education divisions. Those programs range from arts and sciences, to computer science, business administration, engineering, nursing, pharmacy and health professions, criminal justice and more. Our Physics Department and College of Computer Science are highly respected. I'd be happy to send you a copy of our view book. I have referred the information you e-mailed to me to our general counsel's office. That office is interested in any additional information you can provide, particularly Mr. Shargel's address. That office can be reached by telephone at 617-373-2157. _____ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:04:35 +0800 To: rmcoll@sprintmail.com From: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net Subject: Re: Shargel article From head of Public Affairs, NASA Goddard, which manages HST. >Please send me your fraud report. What is the purpose of your >report? I'll continue to update you on my investigation...Wes _____ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:15:53 -0400 To: Wes Thomas <west@sonic.net From: Jim Sahli <James.Sahli.1@gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Re: Lee Shargel, "top NASA scientist"? >Jim: I'm still waiting for a response to this. Please direct me ASAP >to someone at NASA who can help me. Thanks, Wes Thomas, writer, >Perceptions magazine >A person named Lee Shargel AKA Leon D. Shargel claims to be a "top >NASA scientist" in radio ads and press releases from his publisher, >Oughten House of Livermore, CA. He claims in a press release from the >publisher to have worked on "Top Secret SRBOC, TDRS, and Hubble Space >Telescope projects at NASA and the DOD." [DoD?]. On the Art Bell show, >he claimed he is still consulting with HST. >Do you have any record to this person? If not, do you plan any kind of >legal action because of his possible fraudulent misrepresentation? >Thank you, Wes, I am not familiar with this person as a NASA scientist. Thanks! Jim Sahli Voice: 301-286-0697 GSFC/PAO Fax: 301-286-1707 Code 130 Email: James.Sahli.1@gsfc.nasa.gov Greenbelt, Md. 20771 ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@wic.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 IUFO: Re: Abductions From: Stephen & Joni Berkowitz <ferris4@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 05:20:27 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:05:43 -0500 Subject: IUFO: Re: Abductions I would like everyone to know that I have been writing to Dr. Boylan. He did answer me off the list, and I am showing you his and my response below. I really wanted to discuss this with him, but Dr. Boylan, I am quite disappointed that you had a negative response. I think its because I did have friendly encounters and well as negative abductions...and not too many abductees had this kind of experience. Therefore, I do know the difference, and feel that the Medical Procedures are wrong. By the way, the light rod does inflict pain. Not just discomfort. And others also who had my experience know it. I do know of another person who went through what I did, because we are friendly with the same righteous good entities, and its not because those ETs look like us. I do not know why you stated that: > The rod with a light at one end has been used by several races to >perform several functions, none of which is to induce pain. I saw a person fall down to his knees in pain. I could never forget it. I do not look directly into these other entities eyes....as they will take your mind. You said that the ETs I have contact with is what would be considered Angels....well, maybe thats why they do not act like the ones who do the abductions and lie. Think about it. Joni Berkowitz Joni, Yes, I am an experiencer of extraterrestrial encounters. I do not use the UFO Cover-Up's term "abductee". > I hope that you will not think of this as a blow by blow .....I hope > that > you will have it in you to write me back, and maybe you will see > that there > could be another side to this than what you think you know. I I have already noticed that you are trying to "correct" me and "set me straight" about what the ETs are really up to. It is clear that you believe that your experiences have equipped you to have broader and more reliable information than the sum of the behavioral scientist researchers of extraterrestrial encounters. Your position is your right to believe, but shows a disregard for broad professional research. Whatever you think of your fount of knowledge, I am not interested in being lectured by you. This conversation is concluded. Rich Richard Boylan, Ph.D. Dear Dr. Boylan, I do not want to lecture you, and want to have intelligent dialogue and conversation. I am not disregarding broad professional research. On the contrary, that is why I wish to discuss this with you. That is why I have asked you if you ever had an encounter, and experienced this. This reminds me of a doctor who feels threatened when a patient asks for a second opinion. Why would a doctor feel threatened? I have great respect for you for speaking out, and wish that you would not shut me out. I know that I am not the average abductee that has been "taken" and only had bad experiences. Also, I am one that has proof that I have been abducted and would like to speak to you about it. I am not out to prove you wrong, or out to get you. I feel you might be the person to talk to. I wish you would reconsider your position. None of us knows all the answers, but I hope together we can come to a more understanding of what is going on. Sincerely, Joni Berkowitz ferris4@earthlink.net Stephen & Joni Berkowitz <ferris4@earthlink.net> http://home.earthlink.net/~ferris4/ **THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE.**
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:00:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:02:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Steve, >In all honesty, I didn't realize that I had raised so many questions >with my previous message. ;) I too have followed this thing from the >beginning. Verbosity is a sin that I am sometimes guilty of. . . .<g> >I agree with most of what you stated in your first paragraph. But the >thing is we have absolutely nothing to go on without the film or the >cameraman. Ray Santilli is the ONLY one who can provide the provenence >genesis of this video/film. He is the one who presented this to the >world and it is he who holds all the answers. The story provided by >Ray that we are to accept or reject has been thoroughly gone over and >has been proven to be full of holes. Why do you give it any credence >to the story provided by Ray? Can you list anything that gives any >credibility to the story at all? I don't entirely disagree with your thoughts here. But even if we reject Ray's story entirely, you give him the credit of being able to pull off this as a hoax, and that is what I somehow doubt. We would still be left with the images that we have seen, as well as those we have only heard about. Ray has stated on a number of occasions that he really has no idea what the "film"" is of. He claims that is is from Roswell, because that is what he was allegedly told, but it could be that he found (or obtained) a strange film that seems to fit the genre and he decided to cash in. But even if his story is a fantasy dreamed up over a few beers (that's how the concept for The X-Files was developed), it doesn't explain where the strange video came from. You discredit the "film", because you have found its source to be discredited. I don't believe that Ray is capable of creating this as a hoax, so we are still faced with the question of where the images came from. >As far as Ray's deception goes, I can state a one important fact. Ray >did purposefully and blatantly lie about Harry Truman being visible >in the video. He told numerous people (Stan Friedman, Reg Presley, >Colin Andrews and I believe Phillip Mantle and Michael Hessesman) that >Truman was visible in the film and that is not true. As a matter of >fact we could have Stanton Friedman confirm what Ray told him. I have >Stan on tape on Don Ecker's UFOs Tonite radio show stating that Ray >told him President Truman was visible on the film at the crash site >and that it was so clear that you could read Truman's lips. When Ray >was asked about this in a recent TV interview with Sightings, Ray >gave a convoluted answer saying yes it was a descrepancy, but never >denying that he said it. Actually, he has admitted that he said it, but not to as many sources and I believe you have quoted. Assuming that you have seen the Merlin video tape, you will have seen images of the alleged "film" boxes, which are labeled to describe what is included on each reel. One of those boxes was labeled "TRUMANS. . . ", and the alleged "cameraman" had allegedly told Ray that one of the reels included images of Truman. He assumed that was the reel, and when this entire matter began to explode in the Spring of '95, he made a number of comments based on hearsay, rather than what he had actually seen on the "film". Ray's "recent" interview on Sightings, BTW, was actually filmed fairly soon after the airing of the "Alien Autopsy" program on FOX. The reporter asked questions that Ray had already stated that he was unable to answer, and the report was edited to portray Ray in the manner that they wished. Sightings could be a good program, but it's primarily hype and glitz at this point, IMHO. >This is all irrelevant to the question of whether the film is real or >not. But if they really wanted to maximize their profits they could >have had the film tested and proved it's authenticity a long time ago. It's not entirely irrelevent if you're trying to understand the person behind this matter. If you're trying to analyze his veracity, honesty, and motives, then his entire life needs to be analyzed. Not a single action. Of course, you are correct in that this would not have any direct bearing on the "film". >If real this would have made the film worth much more than what they >have made so far. This one thing alone suggests that they know the >video/film is not real. Another act of deception on Ray's part was >the claimed testing of the 3 frames of film by Bob Shell. Ray never >bothered to tell Bob that what he had sent him was print film and >not the original camera negative. Somehow Bob didn't recognize the >difference between print and negative film and at first we were led >to believe that this film might be real. It wasn't until later that >researcher Clive Tobin learned that what Bob had in his possesion was >actually print film and not camera negative. As I've said, Ray didn't have any idea about the tiger he had by the tail. The actions you describe could also be caused by ignorance. There were other actions taken by Ray early on that a hoaxer would not likely have taken, which is one of the strange facets to this tale. The film strip story is an interesting one, and deserves a better telling than I can do in a few words. I actually corresponded with Tobin and Shell in regard to this question, and have their clarifications. Shell acknowledges that the strip he had been sent was a copy, and not an original, but Tobin has now acknowledged that the markings near the sprocket holes were not limited to a film printer that was manufactured after the mid 1950s. I would note that the the "strip" of film that Tobin viewed was one that was intercepted by Kiviat's group, which was shown on the FOX program. Bob has a different "strip", as did Philip Mantle. However, analysis of these strips would prove nothing. There is no image on them that can be tied to the video that has been shown, so even if they were date tested to 1947 they wouldn't end the debate. According to Ray, there was only one reel that was of negative film, and the rest were either positive film, or positive prints. Using negative film would allow you to easily make numerous copies of it, and given the subject matter I doubt that was the goal. If memory serves, I seem to recall that the "cameraman" claims that he was rushed to the scene with little time to prepare, and had to use what film he had available. That is why he allegedly had so many reels that needed special attention. >I require proof as well, but it is not us who must prove that this is >a hoax. It is the ones who hold the alleged film and the keys to the >whereabouts of the alleged cameraman who should be held responsible >for prooving this thing is real. They hold all the answers and can >easily prove it's authencity. They have refused to do so thus far and >until they do it should be considered a hoax. The burden of proof is >theirs. You have placed the burden of proof on those who don't care if it's real or not. That may satisfy your logical view of the "film", but doesn't provide any answers as to the "film", itself. Those who believe the "film" to be real only have their "faith" (in Ray) to support them, and like you there are many who quite honestly don't have that faith. I believe the "film" to be very interesting, and would like to know where it came from, which doesn't require that I believe Ray's story about its history. Suppose someone sees a UFO in the sky and uses his video camera to capture its image. He then decides to market his video and creates a tremendous story about the ship landing near him and the occupants taking him for a ride, just spice up his lecture tours. Even if we later find out that this person is a fraud, and has lied repeatedly about the landing, it wouldn't explain the images he captured. Quite likely the entire video would be rejected, in spite of the fact that it could well be real, just because the provenance he has given it is flawed. I would want to examine the video for anomolies that would prove it a fraud before writing it off, but that ususally isn't the case. >I don't even want to speculate why the cameraman interview was >released in Japan first. Hopefully Kiviat will soon be able to show >this on US TV. It is probably our only chance that someone might >recognize him. Agreed. I think Kiviat may be having problems finding a network to fund his projects, which include "Alien Autopsy Cameraman, Fact or Fiction". He has talked about it on several occasions, but so far there is no word that it has gone into production. If anyone has a good snail mail (or e-mail) address for Kiviat, please send it to me via e-mail. I would like to approach him on this in writing, and I've already had several letters returned as "Addressee Unknown". >> This entire debate will be raised a level or two if Ray actually releases >> the other "autopsy/dissection" sequence. It certainly won't prove anything >> by itself, but raises the level of complexity if it's a hoax. Among other >> things, one will have to question why hoaxers would spend time and >> materials in creating a sequence that is gynecological in nature, and >> unshowable on television (in most places). Kiviat has gotten a lot of >> criticism for his masking the crotch area in the FOX Network program he >> created, and I can imagine the problems he would have with a sequence in >> which one of the doctors allegedly sticks one arm into the creature up to >> his elbow. From what I've heard, it is obviously not human, but that won't >> appease the censors who would likely view this as objectionable. > >Might be able to sell it to Larry Flint. ;) Or better yet, Bob >Gucionne is already into aliens. Remember the Penthouse Alien >photos of the Roswell Museum dummy. What a hoot! ;O I'm working on a page for my WEB site and in it I make a comment that the Gucionne fiasco is perhaps proof positive that P.T. Barnum was right, and one IS born every minute. . . .<g> But, in all honesty, the other sequence would have been just as expensive to produce as the first, and if this is a mere hoax it would not have been needed. I think that it will sell very well in the video market, and almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read one post that indicated that Ray had sold it to a collector of pornography. For some reason, the concept of a bunch of guys sitting in a darkened room in long trench coats watching this sequence with anticipatory grins on their faces struck me as humorous. Actually, this is probably a reference to Volker Spielberg, and the story somehow got twisted in its telling at a recent conference. >> There are obviously far more questions than answers with regard to the >> Santilli "film". My instinct tells me that Ray will take advantage of the >> 50th Anniversary of UFOLogy and release the rest of the video sometime this >> Spring. Given the nature of the video, I would also suspect that direct >> sales will make up a larger portion of the release this time around. The >> images will all have a logo in the corner to identify it as copyrighted >> material, which can help to limit the piracy that plagued his last release. >> Will it help to prove anything. No. >> But it will at least be interesting, and take the debate into areas where >> it hasn't gone before. >Yeah, that LOGO ought to really scare the video pirates. ;) To quote TRUE LIES, "Fear is not an option". Of course, without the logo, Ray would have no way to prove the video came from him and since it was allegedly stolen in the first place his ownership would already be questionable. Until we know more about the "film", this is really a non-event. There are many strange videos for sale in this genre, and many are nothing more than the ravings of researchers who like the sound of their own voice. The Santilli video adds to the mix, and is probably in good company at some levels. Should we ignore it and move on? Probably, unless we can get more information to try and verify. But, until the actual images have been explained, I will remain curious. Take care, Steve Kaeser
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:34:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:45:30 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > From: DRudiak@aol.com > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 02:53:30 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Electrically Induced Hallucinations' > >Where these papers publish? May we please have the references? Thank you for the references....I can see I am going to have to do a lot of reading in this area. It was much simpler when Klass had ball lightning jumping through the hoops for him. > The authors hypothesized that the more complex images could be induced > in some of the blind people because of hypersensitivity of the visual > areas after loss of sensory input. This is commonly seen when sensory > input is lost, for example, the hallucination of a phantom limb after > amputation. This is indeed interesting. Some of the guys on guard duty in Germany would talk about seeing "flashes" out in front of them. They knew they were not actually seeing a light. We were in the middle of the woods, the sky overcast, away from a habitation and they were out of the bivouac area. In the cold with no light and no moving around, it seems to conducive to this type of thing. > > My own experience with stimulating normal subjects is that it is > difficult to get them to see anything. The commonly reported visual > sensations are extremeley brief flashes of light, color, and very simple > shapes like wedges, rectangles, indefinite blobs, or gridlike patterns. > I was never able to get any sort of complex shape like a face, much less > an alien abduction scenario or flying saucers. > >As you are probably aware, there are several well known > >figures in ufology who subscibe to the "Meta conspiracy" > >of a "controling device" involved in ufology. Mind control > >is their latest idea. Of course, the CIA and French > >intelligence are deep in this thing. > >My problem with some of the mind control advocates is that > >they are not "kooks", and they have creditials and have > >recognized research into brain functions. So while I don't > >like the ideas, they still require a hearing. > >The advocates talk about drugs, hyponism, and electrical > >induced simulations as factors in planting incidents in the > >mind-controled subjects. > Alas, for the good old days when mind control consisted of nothing more > than drugs, sex, and rock and roll! Now it's allegedly gone high tech. > On a more serious note, human beings have being employing various means > of "mind control" for thousands of years from the not so subtle (gun-to- > the-head, physical torture, blackmail, threats to loved ones, bribery, > terrorism, political imprisonment, sleepdeprivation, etc.) to the less > obvious or kinder, gentler forms (propaganda, media control, > disinformation, censorship, indoctrination, advertising, patriotism, > peer pressure, popular culture, education, religion, etc.) Madison Avenue is so far out front of whatever the military psyops people are doing. I took two training courses in psyops. Quite frankly they were laughable....The "Hearts and Minds" campaign worked so well in Viet Nam after all....Kennedy and McNamara poured all that money into Special Operations which is where psyops resides and they got nearly nothing. We did better in Europe. People in the East Bloc tuned into RFE, etc., because the could get the "truth." How did they know it was the "truth." The temperatures reported for winter in listerns' areas were correct. The Communist radios would report higher temperatures in the winter. <g> > Now why in the world we would need to add some fanciful "electro- > magnetic mind control" or "chip implant mind control" to all these tried > and proven methods is beyond me. It's also well beyond any of our > current technological capabilities of interfacing with our nervous > systems, which are crude in the extreme. Forget about implanting > specific memories of alien abductions. That would be more easily done > with hypnotic drugs and verbal suggestion, perhaps with a filmed episode > played for the hypothetical victim of an evil government mind-control > conspiracy. That wouldn't be too far from what is possible or maybe has > already been done. But EM mind control ? Give me a break! I've never > seen any evidence anywhere that there was anything to it. It sounds > like a lot of paranoia Quite frankly that's what it sounds like to me. Maybe these ideas come from TST induced hallucinations from living in a sesmic area of the country. <g> or maybe deliberate disinformation to cover up something else. Regards, Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Strange HB Comet 'Facts' From: "Jane S. Derry" <derryj@galesburg.net> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:26:51 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:48:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Strange HB Comet 'Facts' >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:12:58 +0200 >From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: UFO UpDate: Strange HB Comet 'Facts' -Reply >Jane Derry wrote: >>7) As HB is at its closest to the earth on March 22, 1997, it's almost >>precisely over the north pole of the sun. >Another nice fact: March 22 is also the date for Winter equinox for the >Southern hemisphere (ie: the precise day that day & night duration are >equal). >This will be Summer equinox for you guys up on the other half....:) Sorry, I was passing on what Chuck Shramek put in his website. Guess I forgot to put that in the subject. Sorry. But the information is valid. *blush! Tianca "For the honor is in the journey, not in the result" - Kryon "And the result is the journey through LOVE" - Armendeus "So tell the people you love, 'Good journey!'" - Tianca E-Mail address; derryj@Galesburg.net MY UFO PAGE address; http://www.Galesburg.net/~derryj GREAT SEX IN A BOTTLE!!! http://www.maidman.com/rvma/derry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:39:02 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:49:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:00:34 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Steve, > Ray has stated on a number of occasions that he really has no idea what the > "film"" is of. He claims that is is from Roswell, because that is what he > was allegedly told, but it could be that he found (or obtained) a strange > film that seems to fit the genre and he decided to cash in. But even if > his story is a fantasy dreamed up over a few beers (that's how the concept > for The X-Files was developed), it doesn't explain where the strange video > came from. You discredit the "film", because you have found its source to > be discredited. I don't believe that Ray is capable of creating this as a > hoax, so we are still faced with the question of where the images came from. I think the _quality of the messenger_ should be taken into consideration, but actually that's not why I have rejected the case, though it would be a good reason to. ;) > Actually, he has admitted that he said it, but not to as many sources and I > believe you have quoted. Assuming that you have seen the Merlin video > tape, you will have seen images of the alleged "film" boxes, which are > labeled to describe what is included on each reel. One of those boxes was > labeled "TRUMANS. . . ", and the alleged "cameraman" had allegedly told Ray > that one of the reels included images of Truman. He assumed that was the > reel, and when this entire matter began to explode in the Spring of '95, he > made a number of comments based on hearsay, rather than what he had > actually seen on the "film". You know what they say about the word assume (ASS+U+ME). Ray's assuming that there is video of Truman in one of the canisters because it has his name on it is one thing. But that is far different than saying that Truman was seen so clearly that you could read his lips. This to me suggest firsthand witnessing of the video. IMO, Ray purposefully deceived by making those statements. He knew full well that this was not true. > Ray's "recent" interview on Sightings, BTW, was actually filmed fairly soon > after the airing of the "Alien Autopsy" program on FOX. The reporter asked > questions that Ray had already stated that he was unable to answer, and the > report was edited to portray Ray in the manner that they wished. Sightings > could be a good program, but it's primarily hype and glitz at this point, > IMHO. Now, don't bad mouth Sightings. :) I think they have done pretty good considering some of the CHEESY people and materials they have had to work with. Occasionally they come up with some fairly interesting and informative programs. Actually, I thought they treated Ray with more respect than he deserved. The reporter asked him straight out about the Truman statements and Ray had the opportunity to explain, but chose not to clear it up, simply calling it a decrepancy. I call that deception on Ray's part, not selective editing as you're suggesting. > As I've said, Ray didn't have any idea about the tiger he had by the tail. > The actions you describe could also be caused by ignorance. There were > other actions taken by Ray early on that a hoaxer would not likely have > taken, which is one of the strange facets to this tale. Such as? > The film strip story is an interesting one, and deserves a better telling > than I can do in a few words. I actually corresponded with Tobin and Shell > in regard to this question, and have their clarifications. Shell > acknowledges that the strip he had been sent was a copy, and not an > original, but Tobin has now acknowledged that the markings near the > sprocket holes were not limited to a film printer that was manufactured > after the mid 1950s. I would note that the the "strip" of film that Tobin > viewed was one that was intercepted by Kiviat's group, which was shown on > the FOX program. Bob has a different "strip", as did Philip Mantle. > However, analysis of these strips would prove nothing. There is no image > on them that can be tied to the video that has been shown, so even if they > were date tested to 1947 they wouldn't end the debate. Yeah, I know a little about those film strips. As a matter of fact it was my partner Glenn Joyner and I who first learned and made public the knowledge that the strips of film that both Bob Kiviat and Bob Shell had in their possesion, had the edges torn off. We learned this little tidbit back in August 1995 when in contact with Dave Roehrig who is a close associate of Bob Kiviat's. Up until that point neither Bob Kiviat or Bob Shell had revealed that their film strips had no edge codes. The edge codes that Bob Shell referred to early on were from a facsmile that Ray had sent him. IMO, this was just another in a long list of deceitful ploys by Ray and associates to stir interest in the film by trying to claim some sort of testing and verification had been done. When in reality the strips of film were absolutely worthless for verification of anything. > You have placed the burden of proof on those who don't care if it's real or > not. That may satisfy your logical view of the "film", but doesn't provide > any answers as to the "film", itself. Those who believe the "film" to be > real only have their "faith" (in Ray) to support them, and like you there > are many who quite honestly don't have that faith. I believe the "film" to > be very interesting, and would like to know where it came from, which > doesn't require that I believe Ray's story about its history. Ray and associates are the only ones who have access to the alleged film or this alleged cameraman. They are the only ones who can provide the absolute proof. How do suggest we proceed any further without access? People who make extraordinary claims are asked to provide extraordinary evidence to support their claims. Usually, this is not pratical. But in this case it is. There is a physical video/film somewhere on which this film was shot. Ray and associates only need to submit a few frames with the alien for verification from Kodak. They have refused to do this. It smacks of a hoax. > Suppose someone sees a UFO in the sky and uses his video camera to capture > its image. He then decides to market his video and creates a tremendous > story about the ship landing near him and the occupants taking him for a > ride, just spice up his lecture tours. Even if we later find out that this > person is a fraud, and has lied repeatedly about the landing, it wouldn't > explain the images he captured. Quite likely the entire video would be > rejected, in spite of the fact that it could well be real, just because the > provenance he has given it is flawed. I would want to examine the video > for anomolies that would prove it a fraud before writing it off, but that > ususally isn't the case. I think this is a different thing entirely. It's one thing to have an anomalous object on modern video tape. It's a different thing entirely when we have an alien image that is claimed to have been shot in 1947. The testing and verification of the video median on which the aleged Alien Autopsy was shot would go a very long way in lending some credibility to it, if it was proven to be of 1947 vintage. > Agreed. I think Kiviat may be having problems finding a network to fund > his projects, which include "Alien Autopsy Cameraman, Fact or Fiction". He > has talked about it on several occasions, but so far there is no word that > it has gone into production. If anyone has a good snail mail (or e-mail) > address for Kiviat, please send it to me via e-mail. I would like to > approach him on this in writing, and I've already had several letters > returned as "Addressee Unknown". Try KiviatProd@aol.com > To quote TRUE LIES, "Fear is not an option". > Of course, without the logo, Ray would have no way to prove the video came > from him and since it was allegedly stolen in the first place his ownership > would already be questionable. So now, Ray is gonna copyright a stolen video. Interesting. > Until we know more about the "film", this is really a non-event. There are > many strange videos for sale in this genre, and many are nothing more than > the ravings of researchers who like the sound of their own voice. The > Santilli video adds to the mix, and is probably in good company at some > levels. > Should we ignore it and move on? Probably, unless we can get more > information to try and verify. But, until the actual images have been > explained, I will remain curious. I too find the images on the video interesting and will remain curious as to how it was accomplished. But I would really like to know of it's origin. I would like to learn who and why it was created. Regards, Bill Ralls Search for other documents from or mentioning: yogi | skaeser |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Feb 97 10:03:40 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:44:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:09:52 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain >Theory] Jan, Interesting stuff. Are you familiar with the Brown Mountain Lights seen on the side of Brown Mountain in North Carolina from across the Linville Gorge? This is practically in my back yard, so I have been down there a number of times and have seen the lights a few times. They look like someone moving around on the side of the mountain with a bright lantern. Sometimes they just drift along slowly, sometimes jump rapidly from place to place, and sometimes just wink out and appear again later somewhere else on the mountain. These have been seen for as long as there have been people to see them, indians before the settlers, and explanations have run the gamut. Most recently they are explained as car headlights refracted somehow from the highway on the other side of the mountain, but this is ludicrous since they were being seen long before the invention of the motorcar. They have been captured on film and video numerous times. Although I have never gone over to the side of the mountain myself, I am told by people who have that there is some sort of optical illusion at work, since it is impossible to get close to the lights. Anyway, there is no tectonic or seismic activity in this area, so at least as far as I know this sort of "explanation" has never been advanced. Whatever the lights are, there is no question in my mind that they are some sort of natural phenomenon and not related to the UFO phenomenon. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Strange HB Comet 'Facts' From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:46:00 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:46:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Strange HB Comet 'Facts' > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:12:58 +0200 > From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Strange HB Comet 'Facts' -Reply > Jane Derry wrote: > >7) As HB is at its closest to the earth on March 22, 1997, it's almost > >precisely over the north pole of the sun. > Another nice fact: March 22 is also the date for Winter equinox for the > Southern hemisphere (ie: the precise day that day & night duration are > equal). > This will be Summer equinox for you guys up on the other half....:) > Jakes It's also the day that signaled the _start_ of a new year. This was for much, much longer into a dim hoary unreadable past than a recent model of a January celebration pretends. Lehmberg@snowhill.com -- "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while languishing at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Mr. Shargel's Photos Faked? From: derrel sims <derrel@holman.net> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:31:07 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:51:56 -0500 Subject: Mr. Shargel's Photos Faked? Dear Sir, Recently a group of gifs were forwarded to us at FIRST. The photos showed a craft with great similarity to the Bill McDonald Testor's model of the 1947 Roswell ufo. I sent the information to our photo analysist, via Dr. Leir (the Dr. in charge of our medical team, see www.anw.com/first). The results were apparently easy to obtain. The photographic examimer states that the "craft is a fake and is on a table type background. I don't know why this sort of thing is perpetuated upon the ufo community at large. I don't mean that fakes won't appear, we have a large collection of fake "aliens" and "craft" that were given to us as real. I mean this is so obvious as to be a fake. It is amazing that those responsible for such "artwork" are not better prepared to present a fake that, at least, looks good. I have not posted any information concerning these photos or information concerning the events involving Mr. Shargel until now. There are deep rooted issues, some people have recently posted, that strike to the heart of the "validity" issue. I agree with that sentiment. I think that if you make claims of this nature, then you should be prepared to back it up with evidence/documentation of some kind. Perhaps such a person could present to an independant party that could reasonably verify the claims or background, of one making such claims. I am not on a witch hunt on Mr. Shargel, or any one else. I think it's time that people making such claims should back them up. Perhaps a board of trustees of various diciplines and/or Ufo affiliations could be availible for persons to submit their work, curriculum vitae, or claims to. This is an idea that should be passed around and discussed at length with "all" intrested parties. I don't think we need another govt. entity over us, but I do think it would be intresting to see how such issues could be handled and still provide an impartial look at the claims and a statement of finding made. As I said I don't mean a witchhunt. This, perhaps, should not be a " board" one has to come to, but a board that would agree to look at claims that border on the realm of where no man has gone before. This is just an idea. There are some brilliant people out there that could come up with a fair, or equitable system to allow anyone to bring their "claims"to the table and get a fair review. If this idea is of no value, then it should die here. One thing rings clear for me about these photos, and this "mentality", somethings wrong with this picture. Derrel Sims, Chief of Investigations, FIRST
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 IUFO: Re: Abductions From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:36:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:50:44 -0500 Subject: IUFO: Re: Abductions >>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 05:20:27 -0800 (PST) >>To: iufo@world.std.com >>From: Stephen & Joni Berkowitz <ferris4@earthlink.net> >>Subject: RE: IUFO: ABDUCTIONS Hello Joni, You wrote, >I would like everyone to know that I have been writing to Dr. >Boylan. "Dr" Boylan is a raving paranoid lunatic who has taken sexual advantage of his female clients that resulted in litigation which he LOST! Now tell me why you picked him to contact? I have rarely met any individual as acutely dysfunctional as Richard Boylan. If he invites you over for a therapeutic hot tub session, watch yer yarbles. Re: the "rod" They used that thing on me on one occasion that I recall consciously and clearly. I was being carried out of my house by five or six greys and had a fleeting moment of lucidity and I freaked out completely. I mean I lost it. I started fighting and kicking and tugging to break free in a state of [pure] abject terror. A short, dark skinned being in a hooded robe reached out and touched me on the forehead with one of those little "human cattle prods" and quickly put and end to my protestations. I mean that thing incapacitated me instantly. When he touched me with it, there was a blinding flash of light, searing pain, and then I just went limp. I could't remember any more of the experience until I used hypnosis several years later to unlock the rest. I wish you luck in your personal investigation, but as a fellow experiencer I must caution you in the strongest way about associating with Boylan. He's a paranoiac,clearly delusional, and worse of all, a degenerate predator that thinks nothing of using his position/credentials to take sexual advantage of women that come to him seeking help. Don't just take my word for it, ask around Joni. Buyer beware! As for all of this "good alien, bad alien" speculation, I don't think that they necessarily fall into either catagory. I think they are serving their own purposes and that consideration for us is about on par with our consideration of cattle or barnyard chickens. Feelings connected to the aliens cannot be trusted because there is no way to know how much of them have been [implanted/suggested] into our minds. I am of a mind that we cannot trust (any) emotions or beliefs connected with them. In fact, if it wasn't for several crystal clear and undeniable memories of what I know to have been actual events, I wouldn't trust any of my memories either! About the only things that [I can] say about them is, they are single minded, totally concentrated on the tasks at hand, extremely efficient, (Der Feuhrer voot haf bin prout!) and as regards us, they do and say ONLY, what is central or necessary for accomplishment of whatever their agenda is. If they "feel" anything towards us, I would imagine it's something along the lines of, "Ordonoplatz, I hope this one doesn't give us a hard time and slow up the works! Umpompay. Oh,...(ahem) Hello, we will not harm you,...you will be fine,...this does not hurt,....it'll be over soon and you won't remember a thing,...just do as we say,...you will not be harmed," etc. etc. etc. Remember? Just some intelligent space ant doing it's "thing" for the benefit of the Nest as far as I can tell. The equivalent of earth bound "blue collar" laborers only with the exquisitely concentrated dedication and sense of purpose of honey bees. They're smart, they're strong, and they've got the bats to kick ass on any kid on the block! With the exception of a few smug, closed minded skeptics (and ALL lawyers) I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. By interceding in our lives they have made us "Galactic Citizens." They have turned us into something that is not wholly "them," but not wholly "us" either. When something dies, something else is born in it's place. I have a phoenix tatooed to my left arm. I know what it is to burn and crash and die, and then rise from the ashes in a new form. It is thematic of my life. Me and you and all the other abductees are being altered on levels we can't imagine by the mere fact of contact with these beings. If you ask me, WE, (abductees) _are_ the goddam hybrids! Whether that turns out to be a good or a bad thing is not up to them,...that part is completely up to us! What say you sister mine? What kind of a world do you want to co-create? John Velez "You gotta go__through_ Hell before you get to Heaven!" (Eagles) ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Ontario, Canada Sightings From: ad897@freenet.durham.org (John Koopmans) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:25:02 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:54:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Sightings > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:39:49 -0500 (EST) > From: UFO Joe <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> [Joe Daniels] > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Ontario, Canada Sightings > I am in the process of setting up a web site at http://cron-2.mco.net > To start I am focusing on documenting UFO sightings in the Ontario, > Canada area, and especially sightings in the London or Hamilton regions. > If anyone out there can point me in the direction of some interesting > stuff or URLs please let me know. > Thank you for your time. If you're interested in references or copies, I have most of the clippings of UFO sightings from the London Free Press for the 1960's decade. After that, I have some clippings from the St. Catharines Standard for part of the 1970's (some of the articles include the Hamilton area). John Koopmans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 12 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Feb 97 10:36:08 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:53:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:00:34 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Steve, Nice to have you here. Some clarification: >The film strip story is an interesting one, and deserves a better >telling >than I can do in a few words. I actually corresponded with Tobin and >Shell >in regard to this question, and have their clarifications. Shell >acknowledges that the strip he had been sent was a copy, and not an >original, but Tobin has now acknowledged that the markings near the >sprocket holes were not limited to a film printer that was manufactured >after the mid 1950s. I would note that the the "strip" of film that >Tobin >viewed was one that was intercepted by Kiviat's group, which was shown >on >the FOX program. Bob has a different "strip", as did Philip Mantle. >However, analysis of these strips would prove nothing. There is no >image >on them that can be tied to the video that has been shown, so even if >they >were date tested to 1947 they wouldn't end the debate. Right you are, mostly. The film strip Bob Kiviat has at present is one loaned to him by Philip Mantle (this is the one seen on the FOX broadcasts). He was supposed to return it to Philip, but instead sent Philip the smaller piece which his agent had intercepted on its way to me. So Kiviat has Mantle's piece and Mantle has Kiviat's piece (and never the twain shall meet??), and the piece Philip has is actually mine. I have two other pieces, both comprising three frames, and part of the sequence shown on the Santilli video prior to the autopsy, but not identical to any frames on the video. I have not been terribly concerned with the dating for the reason you state. If they are conclusively dated to 1947, they are still copies, and do not show any part of the autopsy. So dating these strips will not mean anything to the skeptics. >According to Ray, there was only one reel that was of negative film, and >the rest were either positive film, or positive prints. Using negative >film would allow you to easily make numerous copies of it, and given the >subject matter I doubt that was the goal. If memory serves, I seem to >recall that the "cameraman" claims that he was rushed to the scene with >little time to prepare, and had to use what film he had available. >That is >why he allegedly had so many reels that needed special attention.> The one roll of negative film was included by mistake, according to Ray, and had nothing to do with the autopsy. Just some personal stuff the cameraman had shot at some point. The autopsy supposedly was all shot on Super XX film and given reversal processing, that is processed directly to a positive. There would be no camera original negative of these rolls, although it is presumed that a master negative was made from which the copies were generated. To tell anything conclusive about this film, we need a section of the camera original film, and it is quite possible that neither Ray nor the cameraman have any of this. Clive Tobin has finally admitted that the printer signature on the copy film means nothing. At least he is honest enough to admit his mistakes. Ray does not know what this film really is. Nor do I. All we have at present is some very anomalous film footage and an equally anomalous story about it from an unknown person who claims to have filmed it. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Ontario, Canada Sightings From: "Moira & Alain" <epona@interlog.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:38:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:40:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Ontario, Canada Sightings > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:39:49 -0500 (EST) > From: UFO Joe <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> [Joe Daniels] > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Ontario, Canada Sightings > I am in the process of setting up a web site at http://cron-2.mco.net > To start I am focusing on documenting UFO sightings in the Ontario, > Canada area, and especially sightings in the London or Hamilton regions. > If anyone out there can point me in the direction of some interesting > stuff or URLs please let me know. > Thank you for your time. Joe, I am originally from the London Area and have witnessed some interesting things back in the late 60's early 70's if that's of any help to you. Feel free to email me for more details. Moira Scott Webmistress MUFON Ontario http://auraland.com/mufon/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Mr. Shargel's Photos Faked? From: Ralf Zeigermann <kag15@dial.pipex.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 23:48:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:39:31 -0500 Subject: Mr. Shargel's Photos Faked? >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:31:07 -0600 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: derrel sims <derrel@holman.net> >Subject: Mr. Shargel's Photos Faked? Dear Derrel, >Recently a group of gifs were forwarded to us at FIRST. The photos showed a >craft with great similarity to the Bill McDonald Testor's model of the 1947 >Roswell ufo. I sent the information to our photo analysist, via Dr. Leir There is absolutely _NO_ similarity between the Testors model kit of the 'Roswell Craft' and the alleged Shargel 'gun-camera shots'. The Shargel shots may be faked, but the Testors model is of a completely different design. Have a look at: http://www.testors.com/Testors/Testors.html and for the alleged 'gun camera shot' at www.strieber.com Cheers, Ralf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 12 Feb 97 18:13:39 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:44:58 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory The Duke present his compliments... > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:09:52 -0800 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory Jan, you write: > (Seems to me, if we wanted to demonstrate the UFO/TST > connection we would want to get the best data possible for this > correlation.[...)] Granted. And if Dr P happened to correlate a seismic event with a set of sightings that happened to be every one a IFO (which could happen with cluster effect inside a genuine random sample of raw reports) then he would be in shtuk. But I am wondering, in the light of the following para (and what followed it) -- QUOTE In the decades following this work, Persinger, individually and with associates, has maintained a steady stream of research papers exploring the TST explanation in numerous locales within North America as well as in other countries, and he has also studied the possible clinical effects on the human mind and body of close proximity to anomalous light phenomena (see following chapter). The TST has also gradually been updated and refined. Now, for example, piezo-electricity has been joined by other possible mechanisms such as emissions of radon and other gases, and chemoluminescence. Another refinement has been associating the incidence of light phenomena not so much with numbers of quake epicentres, but with the intensity of such tectonic activity. UNQUOTE --if the bone you and Chris are worrying over has any meat left on it (especially when he waves imaginary dowsing rods in the air, dear God, and you are still snapping at piezo-electricity). Did you read my original post, even? (This is a real question.) I'm not getting into the business of hallucinations here or their relation to tectonic/geophysical effects or even balls of light. I don't know enough about it, and even those who claim a causal connection don't seem to be sure - as how could anyone, yet - if the claimed connection is psychological, physical, both or (to take a speculative stab) dependent on some attribute of the "witness" that's as yet undiscovered - high levels of DMT in the brain, say. The whole issue is long, complicated, subtle, and not suited to being debated from trenches or Puff the Magic Dragon. I say this as one trained for combat rather than the Corps Diplomatique. > Ah, do I see a strawman here also? I hadn't heard Chris > say anything about ETH, and you certainly did not have > that from me. O no you don't see any such thing. If it wasn't obvious, I was referring to what Dr P may have had in his mind when he started out - at which point neither you nor Chris, I imagine, would have had an opinion on his hypothesis! I dunno what you or he think of the ETH, and in the context it's not greatly relevant - or at least not so far. >> What CSICOP makes of it is a separate issue. > We can, I hope, handle more than one issue in a posting! Yes, of course. But skeptical as I generally am, I am not blind to a certain rigidity in CSICOP. Some would even say they have "an agenda", and I would even say I have some wavering sympathy for it. I just don't (didn't) happen to be aware of their line on the issue, ergo didn't want to try, even, to discuss it. I don't say much about breeding goldfish, either. For the rest of my general drift on this issue, see my post in response to Chris's last. To which I'd add only that my impression is that Dr P has, in the terms of my previous analogy, actually fallen off a horse and actually got pregnant, and here are good folk picking apart *his* story of what happened in between instead of looking for a better connection for the two events. You seem to agree there is something worth digging at here. So make with the spade, already. I really do, now, have to pass this torch to Paul, as earlier I said I would, since he is familiar with all its ins and outs as I am not. To what extent he has the time or inclination to reply I hesitate to guess (especially after Chris's dumb line about dowsing). At least S. John Powell now knows what those sympathetic to the TST and related notions have done since the year dot. And he'll still have to read the book, I'm afraid, to find out the really good bits. But a man with a shoe phone could always ring another chap's bow tie, and get a chit... best wishes P. Mendoza Smoothbore Grand Molar, Laotian Order of the Green Mandible
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:11:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:42:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Regarding... >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:00:34 -0500 >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Steven wrote: >But, in all honesty, the other sequence would have been just as expensive >to produce as the first, and if this is a mere hoax it would not have been >needed. Hi Steven, If the "second autopsy" is SFX work, a "first autopsy" could perhaps have a simple explanation. As a presumed SFX, we know that considerable planning and attention to detail went into the creation of the film we have all seen. A "dress rehearsal" would enable the creators to consider any obvious indications of the film's true origins, any possible improvements to the script and overall it would be invaluable. There are indications that's what the "first autopsy" might be and it's perhaps the reason it was shown to only a few people. Firstly, when Ray appeared on the Art Bell show on 18 July, 1995, it was reported he described both creatures as "unusually muscley". This suggests the first creature also does a fine impersonation of a body cast moulding. We then have Philip Mantle's description of the "first autopsy": "The alien is laid on a slab inside what looks like a morgue or should I say hospital! The walls are all white etc. The alien is humanoid almost human looking with a enlarged abdomen, two arms two legs, but it has six digits on each of its hands and feet. There is no hair visible anywhere, the head is slightly enlarged but it has a nose, mouth, ears (these are lower on the head than a human) and two dark eyes. Female genitals are also visible. The alien's body is cut open and various organs are removed and placed in various receptacles. A kind of 'crystal' or 'mineral' about the size of a marble is also removed from the chest cavity. The head is cut open and the skull sawn open to gain access to the brain. The people conducting the autopsy are completely covered in protection suits of some kind and unfortunately the faces of these individuals are not visible. This autopsy is conducted by two people who appear at times to be writing down the process as they go along. Behind the head of the alien is a gap then a wall with a window in. Through this window another person can be observed apparently wearing surgical clothing, cap, gown, mask, etc. As I am not qualified to comment on the procedure used in the autopsy nor the instruments used I will refrain from doing so. Nor will I comment on whether certain other objects in the room such as a telephone and a clock were available in 1947". Would this not pass for a description of the "second autopsy"? I deliberately left out a small part of the description to illustrate that point. This film begins with the eye coverings being removed, a scene which takes place later in the second film. But even the description of that procedure is much the same; "This is in fact a kind of a dark covering over the eyes itself. Once removed the eyeballs are visible underneath although they are rolled up into the head". In Philip's own description of the "second autopsy", he notes that the differences as essentially being, "This time the alien had a damaged leg unlike the previous autopsy where the creature was fully intact. The procedure was pretty much the same as before but by no means exactly the same". In an interview given to Rebecca Schatte, he added: "The other autopsy is the clearer of the two. The film is different. The creature is fully intact and there is no damaged leg and hand and so on. It looks to be in the same room, the same kind of procedure. When they cut open the chest cavity they removed a piece of material that looks pretty much like a mineral about the size, smaller than a golf ball. We have marbles here - about halfway between a marble and a golf ball, opaque in color. You can see it very, very clearly. In the second autopsy, the one that everyone has seen, you only get a glimpse of it and then it goes out of focus. ...Those are the pretty much the major differences. They are pretty much the same thing". So, pretty much the same thing and it wouldn't be a surprise if the body in the first film didn't have any "injuries", these could be added to the final model. One further point; if we were designing an "alien" to be autopsied, it would probably be completely hairless and essentially "sexless". One thing we couldn't do is have an "appendage", if you catch my drift. There's actually a lot of similarities to Steve Johnson's "Roswell" alien, this is also hairless and "sexless", has some "injuries", and the markings on the body are very alike. One key feature in the first film is the "gynaecological" examination, although I've heard an informed opinion that it's perhaps not quite so graphic as described. This is not so much missing from the second film as perhaps more discrete and minus the removal of the anomalous object. But why didn't they carry out this exact same examination in the second film.... perhaps because it was decided this had to be toned down? In this scenario, the additional cost would not necessarily be significant, it seems all the same props are used and it really only requires another model, possibly something which had always been envisaged. We would obviously need to see the other film, and might have to rethink some scenarios if we did, but no reason, so far, why the explanation can't be something along these lines. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Earth lights controversy: back to basics From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:57:27 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:41:40 -0500 Subject: Earth lights controversy: back to basics Perhaps it is because I am new to this chat line/subscriber service or whatever it is called, that I seem to need some clarifications regarding the earth lights debate (of which the TST is only one part). Let much just say, first, though, I am taken aback by the venom that some people, Chris Rutkowski and Jan Aldrich, pour out at Persinger. But, the points I want to make: a) The TST seems to be being mixed up with the issue of earth lights. Like any theory or hypothesis, the TST will be subject to fair criticisms and modification. It is an ongoing process. Even if the TST turns out to be entirely wrong (and I doubt that it will prove *entirely* wrong) , that will not have any bearing or otherwise on the reality of anomalous light phenomena, aka 'earth lights'. Can we therefore keep these issues distinct? b) Is there some belief on the part of some TST critics that there is no such thing as tectonically generated lights? Can we have a quick statement on this from the critics, so we know where we stand? If the answer is that they do not beleive in earthquake lights (EQLs) at least, then we know they are not in receipt of basic factual information, and therefore not equipped to keep lambasting everyone else trying to sort the whole matter out. If they agree that tectonic events can and do produce light phenomena, then we can better discuss the merits or otherwise of the TST, seeing whether it address possibilities or not. If critics think that no parts of the TST is valid, perhaps in the spirit of being constructive, they will start making suggestions as to what mechanisms they would think might be involved? c) The 40 percent reference to UFOs and faults goes back 30 years - does Jan Aldrich not realise that there has been some further research interim, and that therefore statements about earth lights are likely to develop and change? d) No one knows the precise nature of, or mechanisms for, ball lightning, earthquake lights or earth lights. That doesn't mean they do not exist. indeed, their existence is quite beyond doubt. Is it really cause for such hatred that someone like Persinger makes attempts to find answers to such enigmatic phenomena? There are plenty of theories and hypotheses for, say, ball lightning - do Chris Rutkowski and Jan Aldrich also constantly attack the authors of those for their perceived inadequacies? Or are we looking at personal agendas and specific psychological issues here? e) Chris Rutkowski refers to my 'pendulum dowsing'. I want to know precisely what he means by that. f) In our work on the 1904-5 earth lights outbreak in NW Wales (Harlech-Barmouth area) we have been able to use highly specific sighting information, mapped to within 100 metres, and correlate it with major faulting and seismic events. In 1983, there was a 5.6 Richter event in the same area, and we have recently been able to record eyewitness accounts of lights (some described as the size of small cars) appearing on the eve prior to the quake. There simply is not any doubt about the lights-tectonic connection. g) We were able to repeat the Harlech-barmouth correlations with the same high precision in SW Wales with regards to the 1977 'UFO' events there. h) In November 1996 there were earth light events on a wide scale through Cornwall, UK, in the 7 days leading up to a 3.8 Richter quake there, and for at least 2 days after the event. I had selarge globe sof golden light in the same area 2 years prior, also, and there were consistent reports of small-scale light phenomena for 4 years prior. The British geological Survey accepts the evidence of precursor lights, and have records to show similar reports in Cornwall going back over a century. i) Excellent photographs exist of EQLs in Japan, and earth light phenomena in Norway and elsewhere (and others are in the pipeline from Australia). I should report that over the last 2-3 years, I have been funded to travel to many parts of the world to take trained personnel and equipment into the field to observe light phenomena. In some case we have been able to find mundane explanations (the whole new jersey 'Vestigia' case has been completely dismissed - we found the reason for the reports). In the field in Australia and Mexico, we have obtained magentometer readings displaying anomalous changes in geomagentic field concurrent with the appearance of unexplained light phenomena. In Mexico, on th slopes of Popocatapetl, we found the geologists see these things quite regularly, but they did not have magnetometers deployed. We are supplying them with such equipment so we can have a data stream (there are nearly 1000 micro-quakes a day currently around Popocatapetl). Despite Chris Rutkowski claims, sseriouswork is going on regarding earth lights research. It is difficult to raise the funding necessary, but it is happening as speedily as we can manage. Other theories (or hypotheses) are looming,including quantum state concepts. These look most promising. I hope the specific questions I have put will be answered by those concerned, and I do hope the debate can improve its tone and calibre. Thank you. Paul l
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:11:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:43:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Regarding... >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:52:52 -0600 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bill Ralls wrote to Steve Kaeser: >As far as Ray's deception goes, I can state a one important fact. Ray did >purposefully and blatantly lie about Harry Truman being visible in the >video". Bill, Ray has offered his explanation for this on a number of occasions, the most detailed perhaps being in the ISCNI interview he gave to Linda Moulton Howe: Howe: And he filmed American military and intelligence personnel examining the live creatures? Santilli: Absolutely. And he goes further than that. It's been a great bone of contention. But he insists that Truman was there for one of the autopsies as well. I know that the Truman Library says that Truman couldn't have been there - but JB insists that Truman was there and that a significant number of the military hierarchy were there as well at the time. I don't know the names, but certainly people who mattered. He confirms that in fact on one of the canisters we have, we see the name "Truman" and a reel number, but unfortunately we weren't able to process that one piece of film. Howe: Why are there conflicting stories about whether U. S. President Harry S. Truman can be seen viewing one of the humanoids during autopsy? Santilli: I had no experience dealing with the UFO community. I come from the very commercial world of music and video. And when we first received the footage, I felt that today's technology would be able to retrieve all the images and it wouldn't be a problem. I did make the mistake at the beginning of saying to people: "Well, here's what we've got. Physically we have got it." And I said that because it was the information given to me by JB. I relayed the information in good faith that the cameraman was quite certain that Truman was there, that he was in the autopsy room and JB said "even if you can't hear him, you can lip read him because he's that close on film." However, we have just not been able to retrieve the image on that particular reel. A good 50% of the footage we had, we were not able to retrieve an image from. But I made the mistake in the early days of saying to everyone: "This is what we've got" and I've been hamstrung and quartered because of it. But that was a mistake and we all learn by our mistakes. So, I won't make that mistake again. [End] As an assumed hoax, it seems odd that Ray would claim he had film which he presumably knew didn't exist, but there's a lot of strange aspects to the affair. >It is the ones who hold the alleged film and the keys to the whereabouts >of the alleged cameraman who should be held responsible for prooving this >thing is real. They hold all the answers and can easily prove it's >authencity. They have refused to do so thus far and until they do it >should be considered a hoax. The burden of proof is theirs. The current issue (no. 5) of a relatively new UK magazine called the "X FACTOR", has a 6 page article on the "alien autopsy" story. The article is basically a summary of various elements in the story and Ray's reported comments, although brief, are of some interest. I quote: The X Factor asked music and film producer Santilli if the autopsy film had been authenticated. "Yes, pieces of film were sent to Kodak for analysis. They've confirmed that it dates from 1947". Could the alien be seen in the pieces of film sent for analysis? "No... I'm not prepared to give away any frames showing the creature. The film's too valuable to cut up and send away". How do you feel, playing such a large part in this story? "It's been a nightmare. I've got a business to run, and all I've done in the past year is answer questions about this film. I'd love to wash my hands of it, once and for all". [End] This seems to confirm the point I was making about Ray clearly confirming well over a year ago, that providing some corroborative 16mm film samples was no longer even an issue. It never really was an issue. To my knowledge, he never publicly said that he would provide any substantive evidence. The comments about Kodak dating any film to 1947 are obviously not correct, but he has said this on a number of occasions now and that seems to be the final stance. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:39:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:03:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:39:02 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Steve, >I think the _quality of the messenger_ should be taken into >consideration, but actually that's not why I have rejected the case, >though it would be a good reason to. ;) I would agree that it should be taken into consideration, but not the primary basis of one's judgement. >> Actually, he has admitted that he said it, but not to as many sources and I >> believe you have quoted. Assuming that you have seen the Merlin video >> tape, you will have seen images of the alleged "film" boxes, which are >> labeled to describe what is included on each reel. One of those boxes was >> labeled "TRUMANS. . . ", and the alleged "cameraman" had allegedly told Ray >> that one of the reels included images of Truman. He assumed that was the >> reel, and when this entire matter began to explode in the Spring of '95, he >> made a number of comments based on hearsay, rather than what he had >> actually seen on the "film". >You know what they say about the word assume (ASS+U+ME). Ray's >assuming that there is video of Truman in one of the canisters because >it has his name on it is one thing. But that is far different than >saying that Truman was seen so clearly that you could read his lips. >This to me suggest firsthand witnessing of the video. IMO, Ray >purposefully deceived by making those statements. He knew full well >that this was not true. Ray made that statement well before any of the "film" had been viewed by other than a few people outside his "inner circle". Ray certainly made an "ass" out of himself in making that statement, but the "read his lips" comment was a quote that might not have been accurate. I can check with Friedman to see what he remembers about that comment, and one could certainly check with Don Ecker, but I wouldn't have believed it until I saw it anyway. If I remember the time frame, Friedman was very negative about the veracity of the "film" and may have emphasized the statement in a way that would make his point. Never underestimate the power of rhetoric, whatever it's source. >> Ray's "recent" interview on Sightings, BTW, was actually filmed fairly soon >> after the airing of the "Alien Autopsy" program on FOX. The reporter asked >> questions that Ray had already stated that he was unable to answer, and the >> report was edited to portray Ray in the manner that they wished. Sightings >> could be a good program, but it's primarily hype and glitz at this point, >> IMHO. >Now, don't bad mouth Sightings. :) I think they have done pretty good >considering some of the CHEESY people and materials they have had to >work with. Occasionally they come up with some fairly interesting and >informative programs. Actually, I thought they treated Ray with more >respect than he deserved. The reporter asked him straight out about >the Truman statements and Ray had the opportunity to explain, but >chose not to clear it up, simply calling it a decrepancy. I call that >deception on Ray's part, not selective editing as you're suggesting. I'll admit that I enjoy the show as well, but take it as tabloid journalism. I would counter that they asked the questions that they knew he couldn't answer to promote a viewpoint. In my opinion, the "Truman" comment was blown out of proportion on the "net", with numerous comments attributed to Ray that simply were not his. When he began the process, he dealt with UFO buffs and reporters as he did when promoting music videos. The problem is that the reporters coverring the music scene were used to bombastic exaggeration to "hype" the music, while those that deal with the subject of UFOs are used to those who speak carefully and are aware that their every word is going to be analyzed to the nth degree. Ray was a neophyte when this started, and he got chewed up pretty badly. >> As I've said, Ray didn't have any idea about the tiger he had by the tail. >> The actions you describe could also be caused by ignorance. There were >> other actions taken by Ray early on that a hoaxer would not likely have >> taken, which is one of the strange facets to this tale. >Such as? Ray made an effort to document the validity of the "film" by contacting a regional Kodak office in Europe, and also by obtaining commentary from a London pathologist. While the attempt was certainly not enough to sway skeptics, it would perhaps have been enough to convince someone that the investment was worth it. If Ray knew that the blank leader was attached to "film" with an alien image, then the letter from P.G. Milson of Kodak would have carried some weight. We, who only have Ray's word that the leader was connected to "film" with image, must require more examination of the original "film". I think that Ray thought he had proven his point, when in fact he merely increased the controversy. Someone hoaxing such a film, who was willing to spend the money needed to create it, would not have wasted time and materials in creating images that were were so poor in quality that no one has bothered to air them. And, I think it's highly doubtful they would have created a video sequence that was too graphic to use on television. That would, of course, be where the primary exposure would come from. I also don't think that someone trying to cash in on the Roswell "myth" would have created aliens with six fingers, or move the date of crash back by about four weeks. This would draw unwanted attention to the "film", and just doesn't make sense. >Yeah, I know a little about those film strips. As a matter of fact it >was my partner Glenn Joyner and I who first learned and made public >the knowledge that the strips of film that both Bob Kiviat and Bob >Shell had in their possesion, had the edges torn off. We learned this >little tidbit back in August 1995 when in contact with Dave Roehrig >who is a close associate of Bob Kiviat's. Up until that point neither >Bob Kiviat or Bob Shell had revealed that their film strips had no >edge codes. The edge codes that Bob Shell referred to early on were >from a facsmile that Ray had sent him. IMO, this was just another >in a long list of deceitful ploys by Ray and associates to stir >interest in the film by trying to claim some sort of testing and >verification had been done. When in reality the strips of film were >absolutely worthless for verification of anything. I certainly agree with the last sentence, which is a point that Bob made many times over. The actual amount of film that would be needed to authenticate the date of the "film" is more than Ray or Volker have been willing to provide so far, and I see no indication that they will change their minds. For right now, I think that is probably a dead issue. >Ray and associates are the only ones who have access to the alleged >film or this alleged cameraman. They are the only ones who can provide >the absolute proof. How do suggest we proceed any further without >access? People who make extraordinary claims are asked to provide >extraordinary evidence to support their claims. Usually, this is not >pratical. But in this case it is. There is a physical video/film >somewhere on which this film was shot. Ray and associates only need >to submit a few frames with the alien for verification from Kodak. >They have refused to do this. It smacks of a hoax. Are you mistaking Ray for someone who would care what people think about the "film", as long as he's able to sell the rights to it? Ray, from the beginning, has stated that he's only in it for the money. There are only a handful of people that have met, or spoken to, the alleged cameraman. You are correct that almost all of them are in the employ of Merlin Entertainment. I honestly don't believe there is any way to investigate this further as long as Ray and his group control the "film". We have what we have, and if one's forced to reach a conclusion at this point it would have to be that the "film" has no real worth without proof of its provenance. That may be were it will end, but I doubt it. There is too much money to be made, and I think that Ray and Volker would like to "milk" this for all its worth. Since this is the 50th Anniversary of UFOlogy, it could be argued that Ray has been orchestrating this from the beginning to culminate in July of this year. Rays still denies that there are any plans to release additional "film", but the year is young. The overused phrase that "extraordinary claims require extraodinary evidence" sounds good, but merely adds to the rhetoric of the genre. Science is primarily a building block process, with each discovery based on the foundation of previous discoveries. An observed "effect" that couldn't be linked to the existing foundation would be unacceptable to the scientific community. In the end it would likely be rejected as an errant observation, and the observers veracity would be questioned. Science has a habit of trying to maintain the status quo, and the phrase above is one of their tools to keep our view of the world around us in line. This is an interesting facet of the psychology of this genre that deserves more comment, but perhaps this is not the time. >I think this is a different thing entirely. It's one thing to have an >anomalous object on modern video tape. It's a different thing entirely >when we have an alien image that is claimed to have been shot in 1947. >The testing and verification of the video median on which the aleged >Alien Autopsy was shot would go a very long way in lending some >credibility to it, if it was proven to be of 1947 vintage. I've seen anomolous photos of objects in the sky that "appear" to be ships, and we have a "film" here that contains an anomolous creature that "appears" to be non-human. In the case of many UFO photos, we don't have the negatives or original photos to examine, so I think it is sometimes very similar. Both rely on the veracity of the spokesmen involved, and we are left to our own intuition and belief structure to pass judgement. Ray has defined the limits of his abilities in this, but most are unwilling to accept his limits and many seem to feel that he "owes" them further proof. In fact, some of those on the "net" became quite demanding and resorted to flaming and name calling to try and force the issue. It was another interesting facet of the psychological impact of this event that probably deserves greater study. >> Agreed. I think Kiviat may be having problems finding a network to fund >> his projects, which include "Alien Autopsy Cameraman, Fact or Fiction". He >> has talked about it on several occasions, but so far there is no word that >> it has gone into production. If anyone has a good snail mail (or e-mail) >> address for Kiviat, please send it to me via e-mail. I would like to >> approach him on this in writing, and I've already had several letters >> returned as "Addressee Unknown". > >Try KiviatProd@aol.com Thanks, I'll give it a try. Of course, he get a busy signal when he tries to log in and it will probably take a week or two for my message to be read . . . .<g> >> To quote TRUE LIES, "Fear is not an option". > >> Of course, without the logo, Ray would have no way to prove the video came >> from him and since it was allegedly stolen in the first place his ownership >> would already be questionable. > >So now, Ray is gonna copyright a stolen video. Interesting. The cameraman's story indicates that he took the "film" without permission, and his recent statement indicates that he regrets that he "betrayed" his country (I think this is where the Star Spangled Banner is supposed to fade in slowly). The first video was actually forwarded to a handful of researchers in the U.S. prior to its airing on FOX, and copies of it were later pirated and sold for much less than Ray was asking. This was a mistake that Ray is not likely to repeat. While I think his claim would be difficult to prove (if it can be shown that the "film" was military property in the first place), he would have no chance at all if he can't identify it as being his. That is why a logo would be important, even though it would reduce the value of the video image to a limited degree. Someone might claim that the video had come from another "mysterious" source that was unrelated to Merlin, and since Ray's story could allow for that possibility, he would need further proof. >> Until we know more about the "film", this is really a non-event. There are >> many strange videos for sale in this genre, and many are nothing more than >> the ravings of researchers who like the sound of their own voice. The >> Santilli video adds to the mix, and is probably in good company at some >> levels. > >> Should we ignore it and move on? Probably, unless we can get more >> information to try and verify. But, until the actual images have been >> explained, I will remain curious. > >I too find the images on the video interesting and will remain curious >as to how it was accomplished. But I would really like to know of it's >origin. I would like to learn who and why it was created. Indeed. Ray's story surrounding the "film" is flawed, but I don't think he is capable of coordinating this type of hoax. I think there are others that could, but I'd like to see some evidence to that effect before trying to reach any conclusions. Take care, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 UFO UpDate 'Libel' From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 20:20:11 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:30:38 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate 'Libel' > investigation, but as a fellow experiencer I must caution you in the > strongest way about associating with Boylan. He's a > paranoiac,clearly > delusional, and worse of all, a degenerate predator that thinks > nothing of > using his position/credentials to take sexual advantage of women > John Velez Mr. Velez, The above false and defamatory statements by you constitute criminal libel. A ffull and complete retraction is requested at once. Dr. Richard Boylan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Libel From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:03:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:19:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Libel Hi Rich, hello all, Dr Boylan refers to a post I wrote, > > investigation, but as a fellow experiencer I must caution you in the > > strongest way about associating with Boylan. He's a > > paranoiac,clearly > > delusional, and worse of all, a degenerate predator that thinks > > nothing of > > using his position/credentials to take sexual advantage of women > > John Velez ============================== He responds, >Mr. Velez, >The above false and defamatory statements by you constitute criminal >libel. >A ffull and complete retraction is requested at once. > Dr. Richard Boylan ============================== Rich, Whether I think you're crazy or not is my prerogative, I'm entitled to my opinion of you. Don't feel so bad, there's a shipload of people that think I'm madder than a March hare, it doesn't send me off to the barristers though! Sorry if it rubbed your fur the wrong way, but it's just my personal evaluation of you. (And that evaluation is based on _your_ own writings and actions.) As for the other, (Hot tub reference) I believe that it was one of the motivating factors for the revocation of your license to practice and a matter of "public record"! Where's the "criminal libel"? (I) think you're nuts, and I referred to something that is already a matter of public record. (?) Most folks on this list see my name on the header of an e-mail and just trash em unread. You're actually bringing more attention to the post than it would have gotten. You're also most welcome to voice any personal opinions you may have of me at anytime that you choose. This is an open forum. Although I probably won't be as sensitive as you are by any opinions you may have or publicly express of me. Shoot, I wouldn't even dignify them with a response! Hey man, if you have the time and the funds to sue me for expressing a personal opinion of you in an e-mail, and quoting something that is public record, I guess I'll see you in court! (Are you flying me out to the coast or will you be coming to NY for the trial? I really can't afford "holiday" expenses right now. How do these interstate lawsuits work anyway Rich? You seem to know more about lawyers and litigation than I do.) I should tell you now though that you won't get much in the end anyway. I live a simple and spartan life and don't require a lot of "things" to be happy or fulfilled. (Much to the dismay of my once more materialistically oriented spouse.) I do own [some] "goodies." I guess if you win you'll get my computer, my mountain bike, (sorry Rich, I don't own a car!) and some other odds and ends, but I [can] promise you that it won't come anywhere near to compensation for what it'll cost you to sue me. So screw you and your threats! Bob Dylan said this for me, "When you ain't got nuthin, you ain't got nuthin to lose!" ;-) John Velez, NLE (Non Letigious Entity) ======================================= jvif@spacelab.net "INTRUDERS FOUNDATION ONLINE" http://www.spacelab.net/~jvif/bhhp.html =======================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 07:01:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 09:18:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:11:17 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Regarding... >>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:00:34 -0500 >>From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Steven wrote: >>But, in all honesty, the other sequence would have been just as expensive >>to produce as the first, and if this is a mere hoax it would not have been >>needed. [A number of good points deleted for brevity] >In this scenario, the additional cost would not necessarily be significant, >it seems all the same props are used and it really only requires another >model, possibly something which had always been envisaged. >We would obviously need to see the other film, and might have to rethink >some scenarios if we did, but no reason, so far, why the explanation can't >be something along these lines. James- Your points are well taken, and the concept of a "practice" run is not out of the question. You're correct in that cost would not have been as great, since many of the props and the set would have already been in place. We are, of course, getting these descriptions from individuals who have only seen the sequence once or twice and one can only hope they were able to memorize as much as they could. The fact that both proceedures appear to follow a pattern also can be explained by the scenerio presented, in that these were not the first such creatures to allegedly be sliced and diced. An actual autopsy of a human is often about a half hour in length, primarily because the pathologists know exactly what they need to do and get it over with quickly. There have been many complaints that the "autopsy/dissection" of an alien creature would have taken far longer than is presented in the Santilli video, but it is quite apparent that the two people in the video knew exactly what they were taking apart. Of course, there are a few significant scenes missing (such as the opening of the chest cavity) and it would be interesting to see if the same "significant" scenes are missing from both. The "first" autopsy sequence would not elminate many doubts about it's authenticity, but it apparently contains enough new information to broaden the discussion beyond the rut that it now finds itself in. What would be the logical excuse to create the "tent sequences"? The one that has been released is so dark that it is almost unwatchable, and the other isn't too much better. Why waste the time and materials on that if you've already got the other sequences in the queue? I think you're going to have a field day with the new book about to hi the book stands by Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle, entitled BEYOND ROSWELL. The release is slated for March in the US and April in the UK, and it will put forth their thoughts on Roswell in general, and the "film" in specific. But like most books in UFOlogy, this will likely convince very few of the "film's" validity. There are so many books coming out in the next six months that no one will have time to catch up until 1998, and I still think that Ray will want to jump on this bandwagon at some point, but that's just my opinion based on his past actions. And so it goes, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: IUFO: Re: Abductions From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:06:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:06:23 -0500 Subject: Re: IUFO: Re: Abductions ebk _____________________________________________________ From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: IUFO: Re: Abductions Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:55:50 -0700 > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:36:37 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: IUFO: Re: Abductions > >>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 05:20:27 -0800 (PST) > >>To: iufo@world.std.com > >>From: Stephen & Joni Berkowitz <ferris4@earthlink.net> > >>Subject: RE: IUFO: ABDUCTIONS > Hello Joni, > You wrote, > >I would like everyone to know that I have been writing to Dr. >Boylan. > "Dr" Boylan is a raving paranoid lunatic who has taken sexual > advantage of his female clients that resulted in litigation which > he LOST! [........] Hi John, An interesting note. Joni has no idea who posted her message into UFO UpDates. She does not subscribe to this list. She posted the message to IUFO mailing list. Have you heard anything about an abductees Mailing List that a Bob Garth has? As for the message she posted, it shows exactly why Boylan lost all his licenses to practice Psychology. For a so-called professional he must have slept through the class on how NOT to discount a client. The message shows everyone exactly how he treats abductees. Julie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Musgrave Quits NASA From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:07:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:07:31 -0500 Subject: Musgrave Quits NASA ebk ___________________________________________________ Veteran U.S. astronaut Musgrave quits NASA, 2/10/97 CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla (Reuter) - Veteran astronaut Story Musgrave, a six-time space flier who helped mastermind the first Hubble Space Telescope repair, said Monday he was leaving NASA after being told he would never fly in space again. NASA officials told the astronaut a year ago that a November 1996 space shuttle mission would be his last. The space agency told the 61-year-old astronaut last week the decision was final. "They told me I will not fly again, so I am leaving NASA," Musgrave said in an interview with Reuters. "It was not my decision. It was not a decision I could make." His departure from NASA later this year would end a three-decade career with the space agency. Musgrave said although he would have jumped at the chance of flying in space again, he was not unhappy with the decision. "I'm upbeat about it. I accept it," he said. "I've had one heck of a time of it. I've been able to do this for 30 years." David Leestma, director of flight crew operations at NASA's Johnson Space Center, said it was time for Musgrave to make way for younger astronauts who need to gain experience for work on the planned international space station. "I've got 50-plus people in the astronaut office right now who have never flown on the space shuttle," he said. "I've got to get them flight experience." Musgrave turned down the offer of a desk job helping to train new shuttle crews, saying he wanted to pursue new projects. "They wanted me to stay and work, but I'm a flier," he said. "I know my calling in space is not complete. It's going to move into a different realm." Musgrave, who has appeared on NBC's "Tonight Show" and was the subject of a David Letterman "Top 10" list, said he was considering offers to host television programs on science, and wanted to find ways of communicating the romance of space flight to the public. "There's five lifetimes of work out there that people want me to do with them," he said. "Space needs to get turned into art, it needs to be communicated, it needs to be expressed." Musgrave joined NASA in 1967 during the Apollo program, but had to wait until 1983 for his first space mission aboard the shuttle. He later flew on a shuttle flight dedicated to astronomy and two missions for the Department of Defense. In 1993, Musgrave led a team of spacewalking astronauts who fixed the Hubble Space Telescope's blurred vision. He made his sixth and last shuttle mission in November last year. The nearly 18-day flight, the longest for the shuttle, earned him an entry in the record books as the oldest person to fly in space and he equaled the record for the most space flights by an individual. The self-confessed eccentric, instantly recognizable by his shinny bald head, has often talked about his belief in the existence of extra-terrestrials. He has tried to communicate with them during his missions through the power of thought, but so far has reported no success. "Story doesn't necessarily fit the mold when most people think of the steely-eyed original seven astronauts," said Leestma. "He brings a free spirit philosophy to the whole thing."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: 'Libel' From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:43:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:58:50 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:03:06 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez) > Subject: Re: Libel > > Hi Rich, hello all, Hi John, [...........] > >Mr. Velez, > >The above false and defamatory statements by you constitute criminal > >libel. > >A ffull and complete retraction is requested at once. > > Dr. Richard Boylan > ============================== > Rich, > Whether I think you're crazy or not is my prerogative, I'm entitled to my > opinion of you. Don't feel so bad, there's a shipload of people that think > I'm madder than a March hare, it doesn't send me off to the barristers > though! Sorry if it rubbed your fur the wrong way, but it's just my > personal evaluation of you. (And that evaluation is based on _your_ own > writings and actions.) [..........] First there is no such thing as criminal libel. My father has been an attorney for almost 50 years (he has a Ph.D) so I know this. I have to wonder where Mr Boylan gets these ideas??? Everything you said is true (well sexual intent was never proven however sleeping nude with a client and bartering nude messages with a woman who had been raped does make one wonder where Mr Boylan's mind was. There is a news film that shows Boylan's attorney saying these things occurred and trying to defend these actions) and as time goes by we are all becoming painfully aware that the THREE women (not one, so the RVer was wrong) were telling the truth. When you see a publicly posted message where Boylan comes on as the parental figure who knows more about what a person knows about their own experiences. This is NOT a counseling technique. In fact it is used in class as what NOT to do. If that message does not show everyone here and in IUFO what this character is really about, then they cannot read. Repeatedly Mr Boylan has called Clark and I operatives of the UFO Cover-up, who were sent to Sacramento to spy on him. This is total nonsense and is only happening in Mr Boylan's mind. Clark had lived in Sacto for 30 years, much longer than Mr Boylan. I AM sure we can expect to see where this woman who posted the message in IUFO is also part of the UFO Cover-up since we have all seen the well placed remark of how the term "abductee" is a Cover-up term. Since there have been reported abductions with invasive procedures going on long before Mr Boylan was old enough to shave, who is going to believe him...? Julie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: IUFO: Re: Abductions From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:17:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:02:00 -0500 Subject: Re: IUFO: Re: Abductions > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: IUFO: Re: Abductions > Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 9:06 AM > If a post here does not have an 'attribution-header' > at the start of the body of the message that relates > directly to 'UpDates' and appears to come from > elsewhere, it means that I probably cross-posted it. > UpDates gathers information from many sources > including other 'lists'. I posted Joni's message to > IUFO here. > ebk Thanks Errol for this information. It was an interesting piece of information. It did cause me to go check out your website and it looks good. Thanks again Julie ___________________ Julie, Actually, not _mine_, it was set up by Glenn Campbell in Nevada. He's the one who deserves the kudos. [Cue: Huge audience - wild applause with interspersed shouts of "Yay Glenn!", "Kewell" and lots of "Rhubarbing" etc.] ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:31:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:55:37 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory >Date: 12 Feb 97 18:13:39 EST >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory >I really do, now, have to pass this torch to Paul, as earlier I said I >would, since he is familiar with all its ins and outs as I am not. To >what extent he has the time or inclination to reply I hesitate to guess >(especially after Chris's dumb line about dowsing). At least S. John >Powell now knows what those sympathetic to the TST and related notions >have done since the year dot. Yes, thank you. >And he'll still have to read the book, I'm afraid, to find out the >really good bits. Rats <grin>! >But a man with a shoe >phone could always ring another chap's bow tie, and get a chit... Cool. I can't speculate as to why the media and/or CSICOP (or whomever) exaggerate basic and preliminary science. Suffice it to say that it must serve their purposes to do so, whatever _they_ may be. I've already placed myself perilously above the hot water by even daring to think that a Class of UFO sightings could be swept away <grin> by something as generally comfortable as EQLs, etc. I know some people are truely bothered by the science and/or methodology and that's just fine and proper when doing science. However, other folks are quite bothered by the possibility that an entire Class of sightings may have to be re-examined. Oh well...<grin> Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:31:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:53:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory >Date: 11 Feb 97 09:34:04 EST >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory >> I think Chris was confining himself to Dr. P's work so I don't >> see the content of this excerpt as representative of omission >> on his part. >I was being uncharacteristically polite, trying on a mantle [sic] >of British understatement, so forth. Maybe not such a good idea. Uh-oh... >So how about: >> From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >> Persinger's theory originally was called the Tectonic Strain Theory >> (TST) of UFOs because he was adamant that all UFO sightings, reports >> and experiences could be explained as related to weak seismic events >> deep underground. >Slightly worse than an omission, indeed, because Dr P didn't claim >*all* UFOs could be explained thus. First straw man. Okay. >And then: >> From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> >> Yes, his "lag" and "lead" time was clearly stated as 6 months. >> He would accept as correlated data a magnitude 3 seismic event >> 6 months before a nocturnal light observation several hundred >> miles away. >> There's one exception, of course, and that was when he "proved" >> that UFOs in Manitoba were correlated with weak seismic events in >> southern Minnesota, >700 km away. In that study, he used my own >> MANUFOCAT for the UFO data (in others, he admitted using newspaper >> clippings!). Since I know the demographics of the MANUFOCAT data, it >> was easy to see how silly his correlations were. And if that was >> typical of his methodology... >Of course this sounds dozy - because it *omits* the notion that >tectonic pressure, EM forces or whatever may take months to build >up *and* are related to fault lines, water courses, etc etc, which >are both large and complex... This could sound daft too: "Louise says >she got pregnant in Charleston, VA, last week because she fell off her >horse in Peshawar, Kashmir, in March 1994." However, we all know >enough soppy romantic plots to create any number of possible links >between the two events, so it makes implicit sense - we even know the >person telling us wants to dine out on the story, which is sure to be >more mind-boggling than we ever imagined. But *prima facie* it sounds >as if Louise thinks the force of gravity makes you great with child, >especially if a horse is present - a "silly correlation". That idea is never gonna fly...<grin>. Sure, seismic activity doesn't just happen in an instant and doesn't just happen in a 2-foot by 2-foot area. I know we're talking about large areas of periodic seismic activity over long periods of time. However, it isn't this 'activity' that directly causes UFO observations or subsequent UFO sighting reports (according to the theories). The direct cause is an energy release/creation that is _observable_. Did the nearby seismic activity that happened two months ago cause the glowing slow-moving UFO that Harry saw just two minutes ago? No. Did it contribute to that sighting? Probably, (according to the theory). But that is a significant difference. Whatever Harry saw two minutes ago was 'caused' by some seismic activity that was most likely very nearby, (not 300 miles away in the same general seismically active area), and very likely to have just ocurred. This is putting the cart before the horse. Once it becomes fully established that at least some 'earthlights' are UFO sightings then by extension we can infer by sighting event description details that maybe (most likely) others are too. But we aren't there yet. >And so it goes on. As for Persinger being a debunker, I beg leave >to doubt that he's doing anything more wicked than being parsimonious >- trying to find a natural explanation for anomalous events (and if >it don't work, eliminate it) before going on to "magical" ones, e.g. >"UFOs are alien spaceships". However, he should, IMO, have called his >idea an hypothesis rather than a theory. What CSICOP makes of it is >a separate issue. To omit that others have found some support >for the idea isn't quite on, either. Well, Chris will have to defend himself from here on <grin>, and yes this should all be under the heading Hypothesis since its far from Theory. I don't consider Persinger to be a debunker. >None of which is to suggest I think Dr P's proposals or even his >data are foolproof. But there is more to the TST that makes sense >than grumpy Chris has let on, *and* it has the virtue of being >testable, which is more than you can say for most hypotheses in >ufology. I'm surprised some clown hasn't accused Dr P of issuing >"disinformation", although that isn't a bad description of what >Chris Rutowski has done to/with the TST. And very irritating it was >to read, too. It does have the virtue of being testable, extremely testable. And this would directly lead to reasonable claims regarding UFO sightings. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: 'Libel' From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:37:43 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:57:45 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' >From: rich.boylan@24stex.com >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 20:20:11 -0800 >Subject: Libel >To: updates@globalserve.net > > investigation, but as a fellow experiencer I must caution you in the > > strongest way about associating with Boylan. He's a > > paranoiac,clearly > > delusional, and worse of all, a degenerate predator that thinks > > nothing of > > using his position/credentials to take sexual advantage of women > > > John Velez >Mr. Velez, > The above false and defamatory statements by you constitute criminal >libel. > A ffull and complete retraction is requested at once. > Dr. Richard Boylan Actually, in addition to the difficulty you would have in an intrestate lible action (If you filed in California, Mr. Velez would have to be in California to be served. If you filed in New York, you would be going to tremendous expense) you would have to overcome the professional opinion and personal opinion claims of Mr. Velez. Not an easy thing to do. Mr. Velez clearly quantified his position as an "experiencer" and hereby limited his opinion to that of an experiencer. You would have to show that either Mr. Velez is not an experiencer or that his professional opinion as an experiencer is not valid. Additionally, with the public inquiry finding already resting against you, regardless of YOUR opinion of that public record, you would have a serious strike against you in the eyes of any jury. Additionally, Mr. Velez would have little dificulty having "expert" testimony take a look at some of your recent posts, most notably those posts concerning the military-industrial complex role regarding that public record mentioned above, to validate his professional experiencer position of paraniod. Besides, if that military-industrial complex is so actively persuing you, as you claim, then said complex would undoubtably be more than willing to supply Mr. Velez with all the expert witnessess he would need. A side note to Mr. Velez, by refering to you as a "Professional Experiencer", I have, in no way, meant to imply that you are an experiencer only for money. Instead, I am applying, and I believe rightly so, the term "Professional" to indicate your knowledge level and experience. Whether we agree with you or not, I think most people here would agree that you are not only a "professional" but also a motivated and motivational force in the UFO community. Best wishes, Michael Malone -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 13 Feb 97 13:24:05 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:05:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >Date: 10 Feb 97 08:40:17 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? Bob wrote; >The UFO community HAS been infiltrated with disinformation >suppliers. Whether these people are part of an organized effort >or just crackpots who have found safe refuge is something which >needs to be studied. I think, with all due respect, that you may have missed the point that James was pointing out in that the keys of the asylum appear to be being fondled lovingly by a loony. This is not a good field to be self-policing, as the more outrageous, but de rigeur, claims get media attention and clique acclaim, while the more credible voices of general reason get drowned out in a general miasma of conspiracy and supposition. Often with 'disinformation' cited as a general catch-all term for a modern day demon: Is there a prejudice against just calling it lying? I'm currently waiting for the wave to build in anticipation for Corso, and the revelations therein. If it's good, he'll be accepted, if it's bad, he'll be thrown to the wolves. I question the existence of organised efforts to cloud any of this stuff. The field does it quite well enough on it's own. James Diss,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:31:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:54:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory >From: DevereuxP@aol.com >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:41:00 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory Hi and welcome. >Earth lights are probably of the same family as earthquake >lights (EQLs) and ball lightning (BL), but also have their >own characteristics. The two chief ones are: >a) they tend to be *less* transient that EQLs and BL - lights >at Hessdalen have lasted for 1 hour 40 minutes or more, for >example. What is their maneuverability? >There are a number of other, subtler characteristics, but these are >the main ones. I can say that our field work does tend to show that >Persinger is right in his thought that changes in geomagnetic field >may accompany EL appearances. Any speculation on the balance of forces that allows them to 'hover'? >There is plenty in the pipeline on ELs. Great! Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Earth lights controversy: back to basics From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:31:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:56:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Earth lights controversy: back to basics >From: DevereuxP@aol.com >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:57:27 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Earth lights controversy: back to basics >a) The TST seems to be being mixed up with the issue of earth lights. Like >any theory or hypothesis, the TST will be subject to fair criticisms and >modification. It is an ongoing process. Even if the TST turns out to be >entirely wrong (and I doubt that it will prove *entirely* wrong) , that will >not have any bearing or otherwise on the reality of anomalous light >phenomena, aka 'earth lights'. Can we therefore keep these issues distinct? Would you be able to provide for the List a brief (as you deem necessary) comment on the specific differences? >i) Excellent photographs exist of EQLs in Japan, and earth light phenomena in >Norway and elsewhere (and others are in the pipeline from Australia). Not counting Norway, are any of these photographs online? If you'd like them scanned online I'd be happy to do it. >I hope the specific questions I have put will be answered by those concerned, >and I do hope the debate can improve its tone and calibre. Same here. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 WUFOC news update From: Jorgen Westman <west@wufoc.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:15:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:08:38 -0500 Subject: WUFOC news update WUFOC news update: Hi. On February 14th WUFOC has updated its newspage with 80 (!) new articles from the international UFO-scene. Enjoy, Jorgen Westman, webmaster. http://www.wufoc.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 13 Feb 97 12:33:37 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:04:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 07:01:41 -0500 >To: UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Hi Steve, > There are so many books coming out in the next six months >that no one will have time to catch up until 1998, and I still >think that Ray will want to jump on this bandwagon at some point, >but that's just my opinion based on his past actions. The one book which will not be coming out is the one I was going to write, with Ray's cooperation and input. Ray wrote his section which is his telling of the story from his point of view. I also wrote some sample chapters, and have a vast amount of material which could be included in such a book. So far not a single publisher has wanted to do it. From a simple business perspective, this makes no sense, since we all know such a book would sell whether it was any good or not (I had planned to make it good, though!). I have found this lack of interest in a detailed and accurate book about the film very odd in a field which will usually rush just about any BS into print. Latest news is maybe one of the publishers will want to do it --- in 1998!!!!! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith again ... From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:16:07 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:07:31 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith again ... > Date: 12 Feb 97 18:13:39 EST > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory Peter Brookesmith wrote: > Granted. And if Dr P happened to correlate a seismic event with a > set of sightings that happened to be every one a IFO (which could > happen with cluster effect inside a genuine random sample of raw > reports) then he would be in shtuk. But I am wondering, in the light ... and that is what he has done. This is the core of the argument. In no uncertain terms, in the classic paper in which he correlates UFOs in Manitoba, Canada (a seismically-inactive area) with distant minor tremours elsewhere, he uses as his source of UFO data the Manitoba UFO Catalogue which I myself compiled. I know its limitations and weaknesses. I know that *at least* 90% (ninety per cent) of the cases listed therein have definite, probable or possible explanations, or have insufficient information to form a conclusion. Yet, somehow, the IFOs explained as aircraft, stars and other misidentified objects were *strongly* correlated with distant earthquakes separated not only by distance (>700 km) but time (several months lag or lead time). Does this not seem a bit "dozy" to anyone? With all the nitpicking about definitions of jargon and who said what and where, the bottom line is that statistical studies cannot be used to support a "mysterious mechanism" that can evolve from seismic energy, piezoelectricity and plasma discharges in the atmosphere. > TST has also gradually been updated and refined. Now, for example, > piezo-electricity has been joined by other possible mechanisms such > as emissions of radon and other gases, and chemoluminescence. Another > refinement has been associating the incidence of light phenomena not > so much with numbers of quake epicentres, but with the intensity of > such tectonic activity. In other words, there is no satisfactory mechanism to explain the luminous phenomena, and the research is simply to try to find an explanation that seems to make scientific sense. Perfectly legitimate, but perhaps it could be stated up front. > --if the bone you and Chris are worrying over has any meat left on it > (especially when he waves imaginary dowsing rods in the air, dear God, > and you are still snapping at piezo-electricity). Did you read my > original post, even? (This is a real question.) Yes. See my other replies. > The whole issue is long, complicated, subtle, and not suited to > being debated from trenches or Puff the Magic Dragon. I say this > as one trained for combat rather than the Corps Diplomatique. I agree. This is hardly the proper forum. Go ahead and publish your book. Do I get a review copy? :) > referring to what Dr P may have had in his mind when he started out > - at which point neither you nor Chris, I imagine, would have had an > opinion on his hypothesis! I dunno what you or he think of the ETH, > and in the context it's not greatly relevant - or at least not so far. True, although I've read his doctoral dissertation and spoken with his thesis advisor. Aliens were about as far removed from it as anything else! :) > For the rest of my general drift on this issue, see my post in > response to Chris's last. To which I'd add only that my impression is > that Dr P has, in the terms of my previous analogy, actually fallen > off a horse and actually got pregnant, and here are good folk picking > apart *his* story of what happened in between instead of looking for > a better connection for the two events. You seem to agree there is > something worth digging at here. So make with the spade, already. I didn't understand the analogy, but what the heck. > I really do, now, have to pass this torch to Paul, as earlier I said I > would, since he is familiar with all its ins and outs as I am not. To > what extent he has the time or inclination to reply I hesitate to guess > (especially after Chris's dumb line about dowsing). At least S. John Not so dumb ... dowsing was used as part of the Dragon Project in England, which also was involved in earth lights. Look, as I've said on many, many previous occasions, I think that it's possible that some UFOs might be explainable as natural geological/geophysical phenomena. But to assume that a luminous object seen in an earthquake-prone area is related to seismic stress is not justifiable, given the preponderance of other explanations. I think that pure research into the possibility of luminous geological mechanisms (LGMs) (remember, I coined it here!) is bona fide and should be pursued. I applaud the *effort*, but not the methodology or the claims at this point. Call it a "work-in-progress", maybe ... Cordial best wishes, Grumpy -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: 'Libel' From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 13 Feb 97 10:42:47 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:59:56 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' John Velez wrote of Boylan's inane threats; >Whether I think you're crazy or not is my prerogative, I'm >entitled to my opinion of you Stick to your guns John and for the right to say what you want about other ufologists. It's a sad fact but ufologists - usually of the more, er, 'extreme' belief persuasion cannot stand any form of criticism. In short the ones who believe the most stupid things are the ones who are the most touchy. Why I wonder? This arrogant attitude of the 'untouchables' has led to instances such as the one where UK ufologist Jenny Randles was sued by Stanton Friedman merely for expressing her opinion. Also many others to have be very careful of what they say and write, for fear of the litigation brigade. This is a sad state of affairs as many of us know things about certain ufologists which if the press and their 'abductees' knew about would immediately end their pantomimes once and for all. The plain facts are that quite a few ufologists *do* (according to friends who work in psychiatric establishments) display symptoms of some forms of mental illness. A great many more are not actually classifiable but have, as we say, 'lost the plot'. Telling them so as part of an opinion should not lead to legal action - which is actually only a game of 'belief poker' in which the person who can afford the best legal representation wins. The bright side of this nonsense is that at least if the loonies do threaten legal action at least you know you've got 'em rattled! I was threatened several times with litigation in the early '90s by UK ufologist and believer in mad things,, Harry Harris. Once for merely *suggesting* he hadn't interviewed a witness under correct conditions of isolation from the co-witness. You see how mad it gets? However if you have to apologise do so with verve and gusto. You may be aware of the relevant Monty Python sketch I have in mind here! What's worst of all is that if being bonkers isn't enough, the same crew have no sense of humour - and that's a far worse sin than expressing an opinion in my book! >So screw you and your threats! Just so! Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: IUFO: Re: Abductions From: rich.boylan@24stex.com Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 11:19:46 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:00:58 -0500 Subject: Re: IUFO: Re: Abductions > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: IUFO: Re: Abductions > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:55:50 -0700 > > "Dr" Boylan is a raving paranoid lunatic who has taken sexual > > advantage of his female clients that resulted in litigation which > > he LOST! As many readers of Updates Echo are aware, disinformation operative "Julie Presson" is an admitted "former" contract employee of black-budget covert military/intelligence projects proprietary Science Applications International Corporation. Her persistent disregard for the truth and wild false claims are legendary on certain echos. If Ms. "Presson" had really bothered to educate herself to the court record, she would find that the Hearing Officer found no evidence of mental impairment in Dr. Boylan, nor did the plantiff attorney even make such an allegation. The Hearing Officer concluded that there was NO evidence of sexual misconduct. Anyone who relies on Ms. "Presson" for facts about me is naive about what her real mission is. Richard Boylan, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:29:00 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:09:37 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > Date: 12 Feb 97 18:13:39 EST > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > The Duke present his compliments... > > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:09:52 -0800 > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > Jan, you write: > > (Seems to me, if we wanted to demonstrate the UFO/TST > > connection we would want to get the best data possible for this > > correlation.[...)] > Granted. And if Dr P happened to correlate a seismic event with a > set of sightings that happened to be every one a IFO (which could > happen with cluster effect inside a genuine random sample of raw > reports) then he would be in shtuk. But I am wondering, in the light > of the following para (and what followed it) -- > QUOTE > In the decades following this work, Persinger, individually and with > associates, has maintained a steady stream of research papers > exploring the TST explanation in numerous locales within North > America as well as in other countries, and he has also studied the > possible clinical effects on the human mind and body of close > proximity to anomalous light phenomena (see following chapter). The > TST has also gradually been updated and refined. Now, for example, > piezo-electricity has been joined by other possible mechanisms such > as emissions of radon and other gases, and chemoluminescence. Another > refinement has been associating the incidence of light phenomena not > so much with numbers of quake epicentres, but with the intensity of > such tectonic activity. > UNQUOTE > --if the bone you and Chris are worrying over has any meat left on it > (especially when he waves imaginary dowsing rods in the air, dear God, > and you are still snapping at piezo-electricity). Did you read my > original post, even? I believe you are mistaken. I never snapped at piezo-electricity. My eight grade science project was piezo-electricity. My problem is the energy to create all the UFOs in the skies. Earthquakes do release a huge amount of energy and the phenomenon of earthquake lights are seen. You will get no argument from me there. The mechanisms to transfer large amounts of energy several hundred kilometers are not demonstrated. Okay, granted that they are so complex that we can't come up with the exact way this is done. Fine. I'll grant that. The way to convince me that there is indeed an energy transfer is to measure it at the site. If UFOs are your proof, I think you better go back to the drawing board. (This is a real question.) > I'm not getting into the business of hallucinations here or their > relation to tectonic/geophysical effects or even balls of light. I > don't know enough about it, and even those who claim a causal > connection don't seem to be sure - as how could anyone, yet - if > the claimed connection is psychological, physical, both or (to > take a speculative stab) dependent on some attribute of the "witness" > that's as yet undiscovered - high levels of DMT in the brain, say. > The whole issue is long, complicated, subtle, and not suited to > being debated from trenches or Puff the Magic Dragon Then the links are tenuous at our current state of knowledge. So perhaps sweeping statements to the public are better left for another day. I say this as one trained for combat rather than the Corps Diplomatique. > > Ah, do I see a strawman here also? I hadn't heard Chris > > say anything about ETH, and you certainly did not have > > that from me. > O no you don't see any such thing. If it wasn't obvious, I was > referring to what Dr P may have had in his mind when he started out > - at which point neither you nor Chris, I imagine, would have had an > opinion on his hypothesis! I dunno what you or he think of the ETH, > and in the context it's not greatly relevant - or at least not so far. > >> What CSICOP makes of it is a separate issue. > > We can, I hope, handle more than one issue in a posting! > Yes, of course. But skeptical as I generally am, I am not blind > to a certain rigidity in CSICOP. Nah! You don't say? <g> I, too, agree with the general idea of the organization's charter, but the execution leaves much to be desired. Some would even say they have "an > agenda", and I would even say I have some wavering sympathy for it. > I just don't (didn't) happen to be aware of their line on the issue, > ergo didn't want to try, even, to discuss it. I don't say much > about breeding goldfish, either. > For the rest of my general drift on this issue, see my post in > response to Chris's last. To which I'd add only that my impression is > that Dr P has, in the terms of my previous analogy, actually fallen > off a horse and actually got pregnant, and here are good folk picking > apart *his* story of what happened in between instead of looking for > a better connection for the two events. You seem to agree there is > something worth digging at here. So make with the spade, already. I say again if Dr. Persinger's theory explains UFOs. Then there seem some good reason to examine them. I do see him about this or encouraging others. So what exactly is the purpose here. If they are a peripheral issue, why bring them up at all. If they are central to the issue, then I expect one should be looking at them closely. > Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Earth lights controversy: back to basics From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:20:47 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:52:09 -0500 Subject: Earth lights controversy: back to basics > From: DevereuxP@aol.com > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:57:27 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Earth lights controversy: back to basics > Perhaps it is because I am new to this chat line/subscriber service or > whatever it is called, that I seem to need some clarifications regarding > the earth lights debate (of which the TST is only one part). > Let much just say, first, though, I am taken aback by the venom that Venom, if it venom you what to see take a look at the Condon correspondence--now there is venom. All except Dr. Craig, he was always a gentleman even with his growing distaste for the subject and the people in it. But please do instruct us as to what was venomous. > some people, Chris Rutkowski and Jan Aldrich, pour out at Persinger. Perhaps you should go back and review some of the previous postings before jumping in with both feet. Personally I don't care about Persinger. My objections to his theories and claims where they intersect the UFO phenomenon (a) are: 1. Lack of rigorous investigation. To base statements on Chris database is rather a strech. The database only gives *indications.* Almost all UFO statistics are highly suspect and full of selection effects. An investigation of UFO phenomena reveals how treacherous the ground is here. I object to the shoe horn approach of shoving the data into a mold here. (Now, please do not come back with the argument that I distrust statistics--- I distrust most UFO statistics.) 2. My opinion that Persinger is way out of his depth saying that there are some kind of electrical induced hallucinations. This is also a strech. If you dance on a string, you better darn well expect that people will pull on that string. 3. I understand about the political "correctness" surrounding UFO phenomena. If you say anything at all, you should probably say something negative. I appreciate this situation. Also, if you grant interviews to TV documentaries you can expect all good stuff that does not agree with the producer's ideas to end up on the cutting room floor. However, if such documentaries show you making sweeping claims with little or no supporting evidence, you best expect criticism from this quarter. 4. If we have a seismic event 700k away, and we get lights in high up in the sky or UFO like phenomena all around, and if that is all you can bring to the party, perhaps you ought to stay home. Some other items flash to mind: varitions in the powergrids, interference with radio broadcasts, radar problems, etc. The TST effects are manifested and investigated because they cause UFOs?? Have we investigated for the effects that would back up this contention. Let's for the sake of argument say that UFOs are the only thing we can hang our hat on here. Then, does it not make sense to get the best data possible, and go where that data is located? Also, the implications here are that we might have an earthquake predictor. Should we not expect some one to be tearing through UFO files to find the supporting data? That is not happening. So what is the function of this theory in its relationship to UFOs??? To debunk the subject??? > But, the points I want to make: > a) The TST seems to be being mixed up with the issue of earth lights. Like > any theory or hypothesis, the TST will be subject to fair criticisms and > modification. It is an ongoing process. Even if the TST turns out to be > entirely wrong (and I doubt that it will prove *entirely* wrong) , that will > not have any bearing or otherwise on the reality of anomalous light > phenomena, aka 'earth lights'. Can we therefore keep these issues distinct? > b) Is there some belief on the part of some TST critics that there is no such > thing as tectonically generated lights? Can we have a quick statement on this > from the critics, so we know where we stand? If the answer is that they do > not beleive in earthquake lights (EQLs) at least, then we know they are not in > receipt of basic factual information, and therefore not equipped to keep > lambasting everyone else trying to sort the whole matter out. If they agree > that tectonic events can and do produce light phenomena, then we can better > discuss the merits or otherwise of the TST, seeing whether it address > possibilities or not. If critics think that no parts of the TST is valid, > perhaps in the spirit of being constructive, they will start making > suggestions as to what mechanisms they would think might be involved? > c) The 40 percent reference to UFOs and faults goes back 30 years - does Jan > Aldrich not realise that there has been some further research interim, and > that therefore statements about earth lights are likely to develop and > change? In the 1940s newspaper editors ended yarns in their papers with a statement for the literally minded: "That's a joke, son." That was a joke, son! > d) No one knows the precise nature of, or mechanisms for, ball lightning, > earthquake lights or earth lights. That doesn't mean they do not exist. > indeed, their existence is quite beyond doubt. Is it really cause for such > hatred No one hates Persinger. I am sure he loves wife and is kind to children and small animals. Criticism of the ideas and methods are different from criticism of the man. > that someone like Persinger makes attempts to find answers to such > enigmatic phenomena? There are plenty of theories and hypotheses for, say, > ball lightning - do Chris Rutkowski and Jan Aldrich also constantly attack I don't nor does Chris "constantly attack" anyone. Please choose your words more carefully. You seem to "know" quite a bit after just a few days! > the authors of those for their perceived inadequacies? When they become universal explanations for what I am studying, they can expect some review from this quarter. If UFOs are explained by natural lasers, 100 foot diameter--long lasting ball, electrified moon dust, and TST, then there reason to study UFO because they will tell us more about the theory. However, the theories are used to debunk UFO. End of story. >Or are we looking at > personal agendas and specific psychological issues here? Just like with your "hatred" remark you are out of line and out of order. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Article on Mutilations in Feb. GQ (Synopsis) From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:13:11 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:06:19 -0500 Subject: Article on Mutilations in Feb. GQ (Synopsis) A skeptical article on cattle mutilations appears in the Feb. 1997 issue of Gentleman's Quarterly (GQ): "Operation Moo" by Jack Hitt, page 153, 9 pages. Subtitle: "Since 1967, 10,000 cows have inexplicable turned up dead, their soft tissues" removed. Let's be frank - we're talking about 50 tons of bovine genitals somehow excised from our nation's cherished farm animals. Satanists? Aliens? Biotech research firms? The Pentagon? Our dogged detective and resident cow-mutilation expert at long last solves the mystery." In summary, the author contends that cattle mutilations are the work of natural decomposition and predators, who go first for the "soft tissues" like the genitals. He says the media also plays a role by quoting evidence out of context and repeating phrases like "with laser-like precision" without any scientific evidence. The article is light on facts and references and heavy on personality-related interviews and the author's personal experiences. Linda Moulton Howe is dismissed essentially as a nut and profiteer. In an interview, she offers a theory which says aliens are abducting cattle to try to stave off environmental destruction on their own planet, and she suggests there is a program of alien hybridization somehow involved. The article leaves us with the implication that Howe has made $600,000 from sales of her books and videos, based on the number she claims to have sold times the retail price of each. "I believe I have solved the last mystery of cow mutilations" the author says. [NOTE: While there may be valid grounds for discounting abductions, that last suggestion is a cheap shot. The $600,000 figure is an unfair assumption, since this is gross retail sales and not personal profit which might be only a small percentage, even if you own the publisher. Production costs, marketing, commissions and operating costs take a large portion of that gross, and the final income is spread over the many years Howe has been in business. For example, most people in America will earn more than $1,000,000 over the course of their lifetime, but we don't call them millionaires, and some are very poor. Howe might rightfully be challenged about her alien theories or her analysis of evidence, but this article degenerates into cheap innuendo about Howe and other "New Age" expert making money. I am particularly sensitive about this, because I have often been accused of the same: studying Area 51 for profit. Allegations of profit is a convenient way to dismiss someone, and finding "proof" of profit is easier than finding proof of alien abduction. Here, the author is committing the same sins of distortion and selective attention he accuses the mutilation supporters of.] Facts on Howe distilled from the article: She is a former Miss Idaho (not Miss America as I had heard) and was once a television reporter for KMGH-TV in Denver. Her documentary "A Strange Harvest" won a regional Emmy Award for "sound" (not content). She says she retains complete creative control over her work and produces about one book or video per year. Her office and editing suite are in her home in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, which (which the author emphasizes is the third-richest place in American, town not given). Howe says she has sold 10,000 copies of "An Alien Harvest" (unclear if this is the book or the video), 2,000 of Glimpses (apparently a video). The main skeptic interviewed was former FBI agent Ken Rommel (now 72 years old and living at the Plaza Blanca subdivision in Santa Fe, NM) who studied cattle mutilations for a year for the Justice Department. According to the author, he is "the only person ever to dispassionately, systematically and scientifically study cow mutilations." Although he attended many mutilation investigations during the study, he finds nothing to them but media hysteria. Around 1980 Rommel produced a thick report under Department of Justice grant 79-D-5-2-S (presumably available by FOIA), which he showed the reporter. Rommel investigated the 1979 Dulce, NM, case in which a cow was supposedly found in a tree, as though dropped by a spacecraft. He found from the original police officer that it was only at the base of the tree, not in it. Also mentioned is an article in "The Zetetic" magazine in 1977: "Cattle Mutilations: An Episode of Collective Delusion," by sociologist James R. Stewart. This article looks at mutilation reports in Nebraska and South Dakota in 1974. That article makes reference to "the Seattle Windshield Pitting Episode" of 1954, reported in another journal whose name is not given. SEATTLE WINDSHIELD PITTING EPISODE "It turns out that not long after people were educated about radioactive fallout, specifically about the H-bomb test conducted in early 1954 on the Pacific atoll Eniwetok, a few folks about eighty miles north of Seattle started noticing pinhead-sized nicks in their car windshields. A few days later, reports flared sixty-five miles north of Seattle, then not long afterward at a naval base forty-five miles north. Then, in one forty-eight hour period, the police in downtown Seattle were swamped with reports of more than 3,000 windshields being pitted. Seattle's mayor made an emergency plea to President Eisenhower to save the city. "And just as quickly, the epidemic ended. Eventually, the rational explanation prevailed: The pits were caused by flecks of asphalt kicked up from the road. The pits had always been there. What prompted the epidemic, the authors concluded, was the novelty of "people looking at their windshields for the first time. instead of through them." During the lag time between the discovery of a mystery and the arrival of a rational explanation, people turned to their greatest fear and shaped it into a story. "What made it all possible was the rapid flow of information via radio and television and even, curiously enough, the car. Parking-lot attendants and bus drivers and gas station boys spread the word to people who drove it around at thirty-five miles per hour. How much easier it is to see that, in those simpler days, the speed of new communications systems conspired with human nature to create the chattering hive of modern media, in which a single piece of information can occasionally misfire and set off a chaotic and frenetic buzzing." FURTHER RESEARCH It would be useful to obtain the three mention references for the web: The Dept. of Justice report, the Zetetic article and the unnamed article on the windshield incident. The author lives in New Haven, CT, and his address can be found at www.switchboard.com Glenn Campbell +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Earth lights controversey: back to basics From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:48:22 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:03:00 -0500 Subject: Earth lights controversey: back to basics >From: DevereuxP@aol.com >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:57:27 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Earth lights controversey: back to basics > Let much just say, first, though, I am taken aback by the venom that some > people, Chris Rutkowski and Jan Aldrich, pour out at Persinger. Perhaps it's because we have pointed out problems in the theory so often, we are disappointed that its proponents have not taken any constructive criticism to heart. > a) The TST seems to be being mixed up with the issue of earth lights. Like > any theory or hypothesis, the TST will be subject to fair criticisms and > modification. It is an ongoing process. Even if the TST turns out to be > entirely wrong (and I doubt that it will prove *entirely* wrong) , that will > not have any bearing or otherwise on the reality of anomalous light > phenomena, aka 'earth lights'. Can we therefore keep these issues distinct? In a word, no. The TST is a theory which purports to explain observations of luminous phenomena as being related to seismic stress and EM fields. Earth lights, as you have defined them, are luminous phenomena associated with energies emanating from the earth, possibly related to piezoelectricity and other geophysical/geological mechanisms. Since neither theory is well-supported in conventional geological science and neither mechanism is understood well enough that accurate predictions and observations can be made in the field, it is difficult to distinguish between the two on the basis of observational data. If a UFO/light is observed or detected in England, is it an earth light or a light generated by seismic stress? > b) Is there some belief on the part of some TST critics that there is no such > thing as tectonically generated lights? Can we have a quick statement on this > from the critics, so we know where we stand? If the answer is that they do > not beleive in earthquake lights (EQLs) at least, then we know they are not in > receipt of basic factual information, and therefore not equipped to keep > lambasting everyone else trying to sort the whole matter out. If they agree As stated earlier, several critics are well-versed in such research, so that is not an issue. There is data supporting EQL phenomena, but clearly UFO reports are different from such observations. Any cursory review of EQL cases will show this. Just because lights have been seen associated with earthquakes does *not* mean that such things as earth lights exist nor that the TST is a viable option. > d) No one knows the precise nature of, or mechanisms for, ball lightning, > earthquake lights or earth lights. That doesn't mean they do not exist. It *also* does not mean that earth lights belong in the same category as ball lightning and earthquake lights. > indeed, their existence is quite beyond doubt. Is it really cause for such > hatred that someone like Persinger makes attempts to find answers to such > enigmatic phenomena? There are plenty of theories and hypotheses for, say, For gosh sake, we do not have any hatred of Persinger for attempting to study UFOs. Such paranoia and deliberate loading of discourse is hardly appropriate. What is being argued against is the deliberate misuse of science and the lack of rigourous methodology in the study of UFOs as EM phenomena. > ball lightning - do Chris Rutkowski and Jan Aldrich also constantly attack > the authors of those for their perceived inadequacies? Or are we looking at > personal agendas and specific psychological issues here? Again, your perception of the manner of "attack" is most interesting. > e) Chris Rutkowski refers to my 'pendulum dowsing'. I want to know precisely > what he means by that. Were you not involved with Paul McCartney and the Dragon Project in England? Were pendulums not used to dowse ley lines and megalith sites as part of an ongoing investigation into earth lights? > f) In our work on the 1904-5 earth lights outbreak in NW Wales > (Harlech-Barmouth area) we have been able to use highly specific sighting > information, mapped to within 100 metres, and correlate it with major > faulting and seismic events. In 1983, there was a 5.6 Richter event in the > same area, and we have recently been able to record eyewitness accounts of > lights (some described as the size of small cars) appearing on the eve prior > to the quake. There simply is not any doubt about the lights-tectonic > connection. .... and in all cases, the lights could not have been explained as any other conventional objects or other phenomena? I have read the documentation of the so-called "Welsh Revival" and one factor that is often overlooked is the subjective aspect of the observations. This is just one factor that may have some bearing on the "specific" location of luminous phenomena in historical accounts. As for the 1983 event, the same objections apply, and there is still a great deal of doubt in the minds of some researchers. > h) In November 1996 there were earth light events on a wide scale through > Cornwall, UK, in the 7 days leading up to a 3.8 Richter quake there, and for > at least 2 days after the event. I had selarge globe sof golden light in the > same area 2 years prior, also, and there were consistent reports of > small-scale light phenomena for 4 years prior. The British geological Survey > accepts the evidence of precursor lights, and have records to show similar > reports in Cornwall going back over a century. Would the British Geological Survey like to go on record as supporting such a contention? In the USA, the American Geological Survey is very hesitant to declare luminous phenomena as definitely being associated or otherwise allowable as predictors of earthquakes. In fact, Geo-Monitor has refrained from emphasizing the UFO/seismic relationship because of a lack of rigour and consistency in observations. While I am sure the BGS would suggest that some luminous phenomena have been seen and thought associated with tremors, would they say with any certainty that such associations are definite precursors and can be used to predict earthquakes? Obviously, not having access to BGS documents, I'm giving you the edge here. By all means, educate me about the BGS position. I'd be most interested to learn their formal position. > i) Excellent photographs exist of EQLs in Japan, and earth light phenomena in > Norway and elsewhere (and others are in the pipeline from Australia). > > I should report that over the last 2-3 years, I have been funded to travel to > many parts of the world to take trained personnel and equipment into the > field to observe light phenomena. In some case we have been able to find > mundane explanations (the whole new jersey 'Vestigia' case has been > completely dismissed - we found the reason for the reports). In the field in Really? And that one was funded by the AGU and written up in great detail in EOS and other publications. The researchers at the time were convinced that the luminous objects detected were related to geophysical/geological mechanisms. What was the explanation? > Despite Chris Rutkowski claims, sseriouswork is going on regarding earth I didn't say that no serious *work* was going on, only that such efforts have not produced any incontrovertible evidence. > I hope the specific questions I have put will be answered by those concerned, > and I do hope the debate can improve its tone and calibre. I hope so too. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Richard Boylan, Ph.D. From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:03:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:03:10 -0500 Subject: Richard Boylan, Ph.D. As of 12:00 noon EST (Toronto Time) -0500GMT UFO UpDates will no longer post _any_ messages pertaining to Richard Boylan, Ph.D. This is the second time I have had to call closure on Boylan caused furor. As of the same time his subscription to UFO UpDates will be terminated - permanently. Errol Bruce-Knapp Moderator
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: 'Libel' From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:56:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:04:34 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' >Date: 13 Feb 97 10:42:47 EST >From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Libel >Stick to your guns John and for the right to say what you want >about other ufologists. [snip] >I was threatened several times with litigation in the early '90s >by UK ufologist and believer in mad things,, Harry Harris. Once >for merely *suggesting* he hadn't interviewed a witness under >correct conditions of isolation from the co-witness. >You see how mad it gets? >However if you have to apologise do so with verve and gusto. You >may be aware of the relevant Monty Python sketch I have in mind >here! >What's worst of all is that if being bonkers isn't enough, the >same crew have no sense of humour - and that's a far worse sin >than expressing an opinion in my book! >>So screw you and your threats! >Just so! >Andy Andy et AL, I'm SORRY, but I just can't stay out of this one..... (Forgive me, Errol)...... Gentlemen and Lady, is it REALLY necessary to use this forum to sling insults, threats and threat rebuttals? Regarding a person's opinions, I personally have no problem with this, EVERYONE is entitled to their humble opinion about other people. However, it seems to be the people with NASTY little dispositions that seem to have the most destructive opinions about GROUPS of people and feel the need to post those opinions.....Andy, PLEASE refrain from making INNANE comments about UFOlogists as a GROUP. Not ony is it somewhat annoying, but inflammatory in the least and will get you MUCH more mail then my mere comment, I'm sure. Now for ALL that are involved with this list, PLEASE refrain from comments about what you PERSONALLY think about people, it's a timewaster and I personally am not a large advocate of gossip. (At least that's what most people I know would call it.) Let's use this list for what I believe is the exchange of information about UFO's and related information as opposed to having it become a 'Flamer's Forum'. As my dear old granny used to say, "If you can't say something NICE about someone, don't say anything at all!" Dave (Furry) Furlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: "SyntaX" <wsawers@ihug.co.nz> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:41:03 +1300 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:01:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:11:17 -0500 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Regarding... > >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 07:00:34 -0500 > >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > > Steven wrote: > >But, in all honesty, the other sequence would have been just as expensive > >to produce as the first, and if this is a mere hoax it would not have been > >needed. > Hi Steven, > If the "second autopsy" is SFX work, a "first autopsy" could perhaps have > a simple explanation. > As a presumed SFX, we know that considerable planning and attention to > detail went into the creation of the film we have all seen. A "dress > rehearsal" would enable the creators to consider any obvious indications > of the film's true origins, any possible improvements to the script and > overall it would be invaluable. > There are indications that's what the "first autopsy" might be and it's > perhaps the reason it was shown to only a few people. > Firstly, when Ray appeared on the Art Bell show on 18 July, 1995, it was > reported he described both creatures as "unusually muscley". > This suggests the first creature also does a fine impersonation of a body > cast moulding. > We then have Philip Mantle's description of the "first autopsy": > "The alien is laid on a slab inside what looks like a morgue or should I > say hospital! The walls are all white etc. The alien is humanoid almost > human looking with a enlarged abdomen, two arms two legs, but it has six > digits on each of its hands and feet. There is no hair visible anywhere, > the head is slightly enlarged but it has a nose, mouth, ears (these are > lower on the head than a human) and two dark eyes. Female genitals are > also visible. As I understand it, the genitalia were, in most versions scrambled so as not to offend the delicate American publics morale ;-). The version we saw in New Zealand didn't have this scrambling, and apart from what _looks_ like a verticle slit,it is IMO nothing more than a verticle shadow. If this is the case, then it leaves me with the conclusion that the creature is asexual (without sex organs at all. Which can open up a whole new area of speculation. Possibilities of clones, wokers, non-reproducing colonisers etc spring to mind. The imagination can go wild???? Has anyone else whom has seen the unedited version share my opinion. I think this area could be vital. Not prove whether it's a SFX, (which is another question) but if it is as theorised by others as an unusually deformed hunan being, it does seem to make it harder to imagine all these defects _including_ the lack of genitalia occuring in the one human ? > The alien's body is cut open and various organs are removed and > placed in various receptacles. A kind of 'crystal' or 'mineral' > about the size of a marble is also removed from the chest cavity. > The head is cut open and the skull sawn open to gain access to the > brain. The people conducting the autopsy are completely covered in > protection suits of some kind and unfortunately the faces of these > individuals are not visible. This autopsy is conducted by two people > who appear at times to be writing down the process as they go along. > Behind the head of the alien is a gap then a wall with a window in. > Through this window another person can be observed apparently > wearing surgical clothing, cap, gown, mask, etc. As I am not > qualified to comment on the procedure used in the autopsy nor the > instruments used I will refrain from doing so. Nor will I comment > on whether certain other objects in the room such as a telephone and > a clock were available in 1947". I won't :-) The clock , telephone and instruments have been confirmed to have been in common use in the '40s as stated by one the USAs' most respected amd long-serving Pathologists. His name escapes me for now but I can get it for you if you would like to reseach it for yourself. Also the proceedure itself, although perhaps _not_ performed by a Pathologist did carry out accepted proceedures. Maybe they were just normal Doctors. This was postulated by the same Pathologist mentioned above. I also have heard there are three films. One quite bad quality inside a tent at the crash site. This purportedly shows the crashed wreck, but I'm not sure about that part. It was filmed in a tent though, which supports the cameramans staement that he only had the bad quality film to work with. > Would this not pass for a description of the "second autopsy"? > I deliberately left out a small part of the description to > illustrate that point. This film begins with the eye coverings > being removed, a scene which takes place later in the second film. > But even the description of that procedure is much the same; "This > is in fact a kind of a dark covering over the eyes itself. Once > removed the eyeballs are visible underneath although they are > rolled up into the head". > In Philip's own description of the "second autopsy", he notes that > the differences as essentially being, "This time the alien had a > damaged leg unlike the previous autopsy where the creature was > fully intact. The procedure was pretty much the same as before > but by no means exactly the same". > > In an interview given to Rebecca Schatte, he added: > "The other autopsy is the clearer of the two. The film is > different. The creature is fully intact and there is no damaged > leg and hand and so on. It looks to be in the same room, the same > kind of procedure. When they cut open the chest cavity they > removed a piece of material that looks pretty much like a mineral > about the size, smaller than a golf ball. We have marbles here - > about halfway between a marble and a golf ball, opaque in color. > You can see it very, very clearly. In the second autopsy, the one > that everyone has seen, you only get a glimpse of it and then it > goes out of focus. ...Those are the pretty much the major > differences. They are pretty much the same thing". > So, pretty much the same thing and it wouldn't be a surprise if > the body in the first film didn't have any "injuries", these > could be added to the final model. > One further point; if we were designing an "alien" to be autopsied, > it would probably be completely hairless and essentially "sexless". > One thing we couldn't do is have an "appendage", if you catch my > drift. > There's actually a lot of similarities to Steve Johnson's "Roswell" > alien, this is also hairless and "sexless", has some "injuries", and > the markings on the body are very alike. > One key feature in the first film is the "gynaecological" examination, > although I've heard an informed opinion that it's perhaps not quite > so graphic as described. > This is not so much missing from the second film as perhaps more > discrete and minus the removal of the anomalous object. > But why didn't they carry out this exact same examination in the > second film.... perhaps because it was decided this had to be toned > down? I think it is important that we remember that the film/vid we have seen are edited together from the film the cameraman said "_needed work_", for various reasons, including, over-exposure, difficult focusing, lighting and generally not up to the standard to be sent on immediately with the rest of the film. Who's to say the parts you think are missing were OK without the above flaws and sent on to whoever contracted him to do the film in the first place, along with the rest of the _acceptable_ film. Hence the lack of continuity in parts. Regards William Sawers "The Truth is ......Hidden!"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: 'Libel' From: Don Allen <dona@totcon.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:51:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:07:20 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' On 2/12/97, Rich Boylan spat upon the ethers thusly: >From: rich.boylan@24stex.com >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 20:20:11 -0800 >Subject: Libel >To: updates@globalserve.net > > investigation, but as a fellow experiencer I must caution you in the > > strongest way about associating with Boylan. He's a > > paranoiac,clearly delusional, and worse of all, a degenerate >> predator that thinks nothing of using his position/credentials >> to take sexual advantage of women > > John Velez >Mr. Velez, > The above false and defamatory statements by you constitute > criminal libel. > A ffull and complete retraction is requested at once. > Dr. Richard Boylan In John's stated _opinion, quoted above, I see nothing that constitutes "criminal libel. " Your reputation has _already_ been damaged beyond any possible hope of redemption by way of your documented long time indulgence in paranoid drivel, your numerous delusional forays into character assassination and the Legal Findings on your case that were made public. You don't have any toes left Rich cos' you done shot em all off over the years. Just who do you think you're kidding with your "demand" for a "complete retraction" ? Or else you'll do what, sic your hapless attorney, Rick Linkert, on Velez for the "crime" of expressing an _opinion? <GUFFAW...SNORT!> Obviously, the fact that people *can* express an opinion regarding you that isn't very flattering makes you very uncomfortable. Get used to it. You still haven't groked the fact that you're a _pariah and have zip, zero, double- ought nothing for credibility. However upset you may get over the jibes at you, understand this - you earned that bad PR all by yourself. Either deal with it or leave the list but don't whine any further about "retractions", Herr Doktor. Oh, in case you haven't figured it out, you do not have _any_ legal leg to stand on to threaten or imply threats about suing anyone. Read this and comprehend it well - I could single-handedly sink your teethless threats by posting archives onto several Usenet newsgroups of your own past messages, especially your slanderous ranting attacks on the character of David Jacobs and Budd Hopkins from several years back when John Komar presided over Mufonet. Don't push me, cos I darned sure will do it. Don For a good laugh, visit www.endoftheline.com/ufo/boylan/boylan.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: IUFO: Re: Abductions From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:07:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:08:51 -0500 Subject: Re: IUFO: Re: Abductions > From: rich.boylan@24stex.com > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 11:19:46 -0800 > Subject: UFO UPDATE: RE: IUFO: R > To: updates@globalserve.net > > From: "Julianne Presson" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> > > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: IUFO: Re: Abductions > > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:55:50 -0700 The below sentence are the words of John Velez... (as everyone already knows) > > > "Dr" Boylan is a raving paranoid lunatic who has taken sexual > > > advantage of his female clients that resulted in litigation which > > > he LOST! > As many readers of Updates Echo are aware, disinformation > operative "Julie Presson" is an admitted "former" contract employee > of black-budget covert military/intelligence projects proprietary > Science Applications International Corporation. This might work on IUFO, but the people on this List are more discerning Dick. Sorry no cigar. YAWN....................as usual the senile Mr Boylan has confused me with the person who wrote the above. Why is it so hard for Dick to tell the truth or does he have a reading comprehension problem? As we all know Mr Dick Boylan already posted a reply to the above comments he is now attributing to me, to John Velez. Dick (no it is NOT a requirement to call you Dr) I had a Janitorial Contract to clean one office of SAIC in Richland, Washington and was NOT anymore an employee for them than you were an employee for the state of CA because you accepted Medical Coupons. It is a matter of record that I have NEVER worked as an employee of SAIC contracted or otherwise. There office I cleaned was for consulting on the Hanford Nuclear Reservation cleanup (what to do with all the Nuclear waste from years of making Plutonium). Why do you continue to make such erroneous statements about me in e-mail messages to people? I had cleaning contracts with several offices in the Tri-Cities area, such as US Cellular (I cleaned 2 offices for them), Met Life (I cleaned one office for them), Kiana Medical Clinic (I cleaned one med clinic for them), etc. I was NOT an employee of any of these companies. I owned a state licensed business in Kennewick, WA. Why is this so hard for you to understand? I filed Federal Income tax returns as a business not as an employee and never received a W2 from SAIC I received 1099s which is what a business receives as a "vendor" providing a service to a business. I was in the Janitorial business in Kennewick, WA for three years, before going to Oregon to open a Metaphysical shop with my daughter who owns a cemetery there. Now tell me Dick what is so hard to comprehend here? You used to accuse me of working for Battelle NW and were telling people I was sent to Sacto to spy on you. Problem is I did not get to Sacto until Jan 1995 longggggggggg after your little problem with the clients. Your ship was sunk Dick long before I even knew your name. You set at Clark Hathaway's kitchen table and told him and your friend Steve that you "had made a slight error in judgement with those clients is all". This is why you are so bent on discrediting me because you know that I know the true story. The only way anyone would know this erroneous information you continue to spread about me is through you. NONE of the information about me you and your friends continue to spread about me is documented (sorry when Dan Smith was ask if he had every told you or your friends I was some kind of "operative", he said no and that he has never heard of me) I can document the FACT I owned a janitorial service in the Tri-Cities and I can provide the documentation that I never worked for SAIC. Can you provide the documentation that I did work for SAIC, that I was an employee? No you can not because it is more of your lies to silence the truth about you. > Her persistent disregard for the truth and wild false claims > are legendary on certain echos. You must be looking in that mirror again. > If Ms. "Presson" had really bothered to educate herself to > the court record, she would find that the Hearing Officer found no > evidence of mental impairment in Dr. Boylan, nor did the plantiff > attorney even make such an allegation. The Hearing Officer concluded > that there was NO evidence of sexual misconduct. And you KNOW I have never accused you of sexual misconduct. You are trying to make it look like I wrote the above so you can send this in e-mail to people to try and make me look bad. What the court docs said was you showed no remorse for your actions. That is why you lost your licenses for as long as you life and every state in the Union was sent copies of the court findings and actions. You NEVER denied you did what you were accused of in court and that IS documented. > Anyone who relies on Ms. "Presson" for facts about me is > naive about what her real mission is. Ok Dick...what is my "real mission"? Let's hear you have my full attention. I did not write the court record Dick. Anyone who wishes can order copies from the court. Every place they have been posted the court case numbers are there. One more thing Dick there were THREE clients who filed complaints against you that you paid out of court settlements to. Not ONE as you MIS-informed Tom (who you told I was an "operative"). To bad the man did not do some research before he posted that RVing report. Your OWN attorney stood up in court and admitted all the nude activity occurred, it is on news films so you can hardly deny it. Or was your own attorney part of the cover-up? Enough said Dick or do you want to continue? BTW, Dick I can give proof that I AM who I say I AM Yes my really name is Julianne Presson. Both my parents are still alive and so is my brother who teaches at San Jose State. MY brother is a rather infamous fellow there since the 1970s. He was the guy who put the Jarvis relief station on the Campus with a few students. His name is Scott Rice Ph D. Check it out Dick you can enter his contest for the "worst written opening sentence of a novel" he has been having for many years now and has written three or four books on. He has known me since I was born and can tell you that I AM a real person. :-) Julianne Casavant (Rice) Presson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:44:19 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:05:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:39:41 -0500 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Steve, RE: Harry Truman is in the film... > Ray made that statement well before any of the "film" had been viewed by > other than a few people outside his "inner circle". Ray certainly made an > "ass" out of himself in making that statement, but the "read his lips" > comment was a quote that might not have been accurate. I can check with > Friedman to see what he remembers about that comment, and one could > certainly check with Don Ecker, but I wouldn't have believed it until I saw > it anyway. Stop the presses. I need to correct this. I hate to be one who adds more rumor to the mix. Stanton Friedman did NOT use the "read his lips" comment. I was wrong about that. I went back and listened to that particular (Feb'95) radio show and nowhere does Stan use or reference the "read his lips" comment. Stan did say that Ray had told him that Truman was there at the autopsy and that it was performed in Dallas. The Dallas comment was peculiar in itself. But according to Stan, Ray claimed that they had contacted the Truman library and had confirmed with them that Truman was there in Dallas on that exact date at the autopsy, but he would not give Stan the exact date. Stan followed up with his own contacts at the Truman library and they could find no record of Truman being anywhere in the state of Texas between July and October of 1947. I'm not exactly sure now where the "read his lips" comment came from originally. I'm pretty sure it was said, but can find no direct quote. I did find one reference to it by Dwight Schultz in an interview with Bob Shell on UFOs Tonite radio in Sept95, but it is not a direct quote. I hate to go on memory here because I already made one mistake, but I will stick my neck out and say it might have been Reg Presley who made the comment early on. Can anyone help me out here? Any direct quotes? > If I remember the time frame, Friedman was very negative about the veracity > of the "film" and may have emphasized the statement in a way that would > make his point. Never underestimate the power of rhetoric, whatever it's > source. True, but it was not Stan. It was MY MISTAKE. I want to make that prefectly clear. > In my opinion, the "Truman" comment was blown out of proportion on the > "net", with numerous comments attributed to Ray that simply were not his. > When he began the process, he dealt with UFO buffs and reporters as he did > when promoting music videos. The problem is that the reporters coverring > the music scene were used to bombastic exaggeration to "hype" the music, > while those that deal with the subject of UFOs are used to those who speak > carefully and are aware that their every word is going to be analyzed to > the nth degree. Ray was a neophyte when this started, and he got chewed up > pretty badly. Maybe it was blown out of proportion, but he did make the comments to a number of people knowing it wasn't true. And I call that deliberate deception, not hype. I suppose it's the intent that's important here in trying to determine whether it was just hype or deception. > Ray made an effort to document the validity of the "film" by contacting a > regional Kodak office in Europe, and also by obtaining commentary from a > London pathologist. While the attempt was certainly not enough to sway > skeptics, it would perhaps have been enough to convince someone that the > investment was worth it. If Ray knew that the blank leader was attached to > "film" with an alien image, then the letter from P.G. Milson of Kodak would > have carried some weight. We, who only have Ray's word that the leader was > connected to "film" with image, must require more examination of the > original "film". I think that Ray thought he had proven his point, when in > fact he merely increased the controversy. Someone hoaxing such a film, who > was willing to spend the money needed to create it, would not have wasted > time and materials in creating images that were were so poor in quality > that no one has bothered to air them. And, I think it's highly doubtful > they would have created a video sequence that was too graphic to use on > television. That would, of course, be where the primary exposure would > come from. Well, IMO Ray has never honestly tried to validate anything. All of the claims that the film was being tested and verified by Kodak as well as Bob Shell was only a smoke screen to try and add some sort of legitimancy to his bogus film. He's had ample opportunity for the past 2 years to have the film analyzed. It is not going to happen because he knows it's a hoax. This excuse you keep using that Ray doesn't care whether the film is real or not is hollow. We all know how much more valuable the alleged film would be if it were validated and Ray does too. Ray's reluctance to have the alleged film tested suggests that he knows it's a hoax and that if it were tested would prove to be a hoax. Ray doesn't want this to happen because his cash-cow will dry up. This is the most logical reason I can think of for his reluctance to have the film tested. The alleged "first autopsy". You yourself suggested that this first autopsy would probably eventually show up on video. It doesn't matter if it is too graphic to show on network TV or not because they can sell it around the world in video stores. MO' MONEY! > I also don't think that someone trying to cash in on the Roswell "myth" > would have created aliens with six fingers, or move the date of crash back > by about four weeks. This would draw unwanted attention to the "film", and > just doesn't make sense. Now this I can not challenge. I too find it very curious that the hoaxers would not have used the more conventional and recognized 4 finger variety that have been claimed by some Roswell witnesses. > I certainly agree with the last sentence, which is a point that Bob made > many times over. The actual amount of film that would be needed to > authenticate the date of the "film" is > more than Ray or Volker have been willing to provide so far, and I see no > indication that they will change their minds. For right now, I think that > is probably a dead issue. Now, this is where it gets sort of controversial. Exactly how much film is required by Kodak for authentification? I've heard so many different amounts. Everything from a few frames to a couple of reels. What is it? Do we have an exact quote from someone of authority at Kodak that outlines or states their minimum criteria from validating the film? > >Ray and associates are the only ones who have access to the alleged > >film or this alleged cameraman. They are the only ones who can provide > >the absolute proof. How do suggest we proceed any further without > >access? People who make extraordinary claims are asked to provide > >extraordinary evidence to support their claims. Usually, this is not > >pratical. But in this case it is. There is a physical video/film > >somewhere on which this film was shot. Ray and associates only need > >to submit a few frames with the alien for verification from Kodak. > >They have refused to do this. It smacks of a hoax. > Are you mistaking Ray for someone who would care what people think about > the "film", as long as he's able to sell the rights to it? Ray, from the > beginning, has stated that he's only in it for the money. No I have definitely NOT mistaken Ray for someone who cares. ;) > There are only a handful of people that have met, or spoken to, the alleged > cameraman. You are correct that almost all of them are in the employ of > Merlin Entertainment. I honestly don't believe there is any way to > investigate this further as long as Ray and his group control the "film". > We have what we have, and if one's forced to reach a conclusion at this > point it would have to be that the "film" has no real worth without proof > of its provenance. That may be were it will end, but I doubt it. There is > too much money to be made, and I think that Ray and Volker would like to > "milk" this for all its worth. Since this is the 50th Anniversary of > UFOlogy, it could be argued that Ray has been orchestrating this from the > beginning to culminate in July of this year. Rays still denies that there > are any plans to release additional "film", but the year is young. Who exactly, besides Ray and Gary Shoefield have claimed to have met or talked directly to this alleged cameraman? Those are the only 2 names that I'm aware of. As far as I know all other claimed contact has been channeled thru Ray. > The overused phrase that "extraordinary claims require extraodinary > evidence" sounds good, but merely adds to the rhetoric of the genre. > Science is primarily a building block process, with each discovery based on > the foundation of previous discoveries. An observed "effect" that couldn't > be linked to the existing foundation would be unacceptable to the > scientific community. In the end it would likely be rejected as an errant > observation, and the observers veracity would be questioned. Science has a > habit of trying to maintain the status quo, and the phrase above is one of > their tools to keep our view of the world around us in line. This is an > interesting facet of the psychology of this genre that deserves more > comment, but perhaps this is not the time. I really didn't want to use the EOC requires EOP statement, but it fits so well here. Ray claims he has a film of an alien autopsy shot on 1947 vintage film. This is the extraordinary claim. If Ray had only claimed to have had a videotape of an alien autopsy we could speculate forever about it's veracity and there would be no way that I'm aware of to determine it's origin. End of story. But that is not the case, Ray claims this was shot on 1947 vintage film. If the film were to be authenticated and proven to be 1947 vintage film. This would be the extraordinary evidence that would go a long way in support of the alien autopsy being real. Ray refuses to do this. Why? You say it's because he doesn't care if it's real or not. I say it's because he already knows it's not. > I've seen anomolous photos of objects in the sky that "appear" to be ships, > and we have a "film" here that contains an anomolous creature that > "appears" to be non-human. In the case of many UFO photos, we don't have > the negatives or original photos to examine, so I think it is sometimes > very similar. Both rely on the veracity of the spokesmen involved, and we > are left to our own intuition and belief structure to pass judgement. Ray > has defined the limits of his abilities in this, but most are unwilling to > accept his limits and many seem to feel that he "owes" them further proof. > In fact, some of those on the "net" became quite demanding and resorted to > flaming and name calling to try and force the issue. It was another > interesting facet of the psychological impact of this event that probably > deserves greater study. Well, I don't want to stoop to the level of ad-homenin attacks on Ray. That accomplishes nothing. > The cameraman's story indicates that he took the "film" without permission, > and his recent statement indicates that he regrets that he "betrayed" his > country (I think this is where the Star Spangled Banner is supposed to fade > in slowly). Yeah right! A real patriotic tear jerker. > The first video was actually forwarded to a handful of researchers in the > U.S. prior to its airing on FOX, and copies of it were later pirated and > sold for much less than Ray was asking. This was a mistake that Ray is not > likely to repeat. > While I think his claim would be difficult to prove (if it can be shown > that the "film" was military property in the first place), he would have no > chance at all if he can't identify it as being his. That is why a logo > would be important, even though it would reduce the value of the video > image to a limited degree. Someone might claim that the video had come > from another "mysterious" source that was unrelated to Merlin, and since > Ray's story could allow for that possibility, he would need further proof. I don't see how Ray can protect his product if some adventurous video pirates decide to take advantage of him again. It will make no difference if his logo is there or not. That will not stop pirated copies from being circulated. > Indeed. Ray's story surrounding the "film" is flawed, but I don't think he > is capable of coordinating this type of hoax. I think there are others > that could, but I'd like to see some evidence to that effect before trying > to reach any conclusions. Exactly! Ray's story is flawed. And until we have either the film to test or the cameraman to interview, it's only a story with an interesting video and nothing more. Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:13:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:10:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: 13 Feb 97 12:33:37 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Hi Steve, >> There are so many books coming out in the next six months >>that no one will have time to catch up until 1998, and I still >>think that Ray will want to jump on this bandwagon at some point, >>but that's just my opinion based on his past actions. >The one book which will not be coming out is the one I was going >to write, with Ray's cooperation and input. Ray wrote his section >which is his telling of the story from his point of view. I also >wrote some sample chapters, and have a vast amount of material which >could be included in such a book. So far not a single publisher has >wanted to do it. From a simple business perspective, this makes no >sense, since we all know such a book would sell whether it was any >good or not (I had planned to make it good, though!). I'm sure it would have been good (and hopefully will be one day soon). I know that you have gatherred a lot of information over the past several years, and few people are really aware of the research effort that has actually taken place trying to follow up on the few leads that are available. I also seem to recall that David Roehrig of Kiviat Productions had also indicated that he had a lot of information to publish somewhere, if it wasn't used in an update to their earlier show. Kevin Randle has managed to put together at least four books that are to be released in the next several months, and Karl Phlock's Roswell book is waiting in the wings. Karl Korff's attempt at book on Roswell is due out soon, and Phil Corso has co-written The Day After Roswell, which promises to tell all. A contract has allegedly been signed for an update to THE UFO EVIDENCE, published by NICAP in 1964, with Richard Hall putting together the evidence that has been gatherred from 1964 to the present. One rather exciting facet of that is that the original publication will become available again as a reprint for the first time since its original publication. >I have found this lack of interest in a detailed and accurate book >about the film very odd in a field which will usually rush just >about any BS into print. Latest news is maybe one of the publishers >will want to do it --- in 1998!!!!! Perhaps you'll have a better chance at gaining attention on the bookshelves, if there aren't so many other new books to compete with. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 UFO Picture Upload From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:20:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:11:36 -0500 Subject: UFO Picture Upload If anyone is interested, I started uploading to alt.paranet.ufo some of my 1,000+ UFO photograph collection. But I also received these two e-mails today: Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:27:53 -0800 From: Survivor <rogerm@airmail.net> Reply-To: rogerm@airmail.net To: sjpowell@access.digex.net Subject: Re: UFO Picture Upload - 531229fr.jpg - [1/1] 158145 bytes References: <5dvrgb$eoe@news4.digex.net> It is considered bad newsgroup manners to post .jpg's in a group that is not a .jpg group. Especially since you say you don't even read this NG. ==================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:29:26 -0800 From: Survivor <rogerm@airmail.net> Reply-To: rogerm@airmail.net To: sjpowell@access.digex.net CC: postmaster@access.digex.net Subject: Re: UFO Picture Upload - 531229fr.jpg - [1/1] 158145 bytes References: <5dvrgb$eoe@news4.digex.net> Please ask this user to refrain from posting the 1000 .jpeg's he plans to post to a non binary group. I thought there was an alt.binaries.pictures.ufo newsgroup but I couldn't find it. I'll continue to upload batches of pictures until told to stop. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Odyssey File Request Processor From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:20:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:12:58 -0500 Subject: Odyssey File Request Processor The Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network now supports an Internet-based File Request capability. What does that mean? -------------------- It means that you can now request Odyssey files using only an Internet e-mail message and without long distance charges. How does it work? ----------------- First, you write an e-mail message with the correctly formatted request (see below) and send it to: <sjpowell@access.digex.net>. Next, wait for the e-mail confirmation message that your request was received. Lastly, wait for your new file (or an error message if the request was incorrectly formatted) to arrive in your InBox. All requested files are uuencoded using MIME. Simply save the message as a file with an .MME extension, uudecode that file to get your requested file. (Most newer e-mail readers will automatically decode the file for you.) How do I format the file request? --------------------------------- The Odyssey File Request message is just like any other e-mail message you might write and send. From your Mail Reader select New Message. Address the message to: <sjpowell@access.digex.net>. Now, you have to write the Subject line very carefully. Here are the rules. Subject must contain: (OFR) (email.address) (ffffffff.eee) The three sections are: A) Action Code. B) Return Address. C) Filename. A) Action Code. The Action Code is used to specify a remote action at the Odyssey Fringe Science BBS. To initiate an Odyssey File Request action the Action Code is 'OFR' (no quotes). The Action Code must be enclosed in parentheses, it is not case-sensitive. Correct File Request Action Codes: (OFR) (ofr) B) Return Address. Use one space to separate the Action Code from the Return Address. The Return Address is your Internet e-mail address, it can contain no spaces. This must be your complete e-mail address. Do not bracket your e-mail address with '<' or '>'. Your e-mail address must be enclosed in parentheses. Example: (sjpowell@access.digex.net) C) Filename. Use one space to separate the Return Address from the Filename. This is the full name of the file you want to request. Use only the complete filename. The filename must be from 1 to 8 characters long, followed by a '.' (period), followed by the extension. The extension must be no more or no less than 3 characters long. The filename must be enclosed in parentheses. Example: (coolfile.zip) You may leave the body of the e-mail message blank (the Odyssey File Request Processor does not read it). Now send your message. Frequently Asked Questions: --------------------------- Can I request ANY file? Of course not, only publically available files on the BBS are available through the Odyssey File Request Processor. Can I use wildcards in the requested Filename? No way. How many files can I request? As many as you like, but try to be considerate of others and not request too many at a time. How long will it take to get my file? Usually between 24 and 72 hours. I want a particular file right now, how can I get it? Call the Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network BBS long distance at 410-321-7461 to download the file. How do I get a list of the files available? Send an Odyssey File Request for the listing. Here they are by category: Complete Listing: AOEINEOA.ZIP Alien Abductions: ABDFILES.ZIP Assassinations: ASNFILES.ZIP CSICOP Files: CSIFILES.ZIP Book Reviews, etc.: BOKFILES.ZIP Crop Circles, UGMs: CIRFILES.ZIP UFO Crash/Recovery: CRSFILES.ZIP Cryptozoology: CRPFILES.ZIP FOIA Files: FOIFILES.ZIP Government Stuff: GOVFILES.ZIP International UFO Sightings: NTFILES.ZIP Mars Face, etc.: MRSFILES.ZIP Misc. UFO Stuff: MUFFILES.ZIP Mutilation Stuff: MUTFILES.ZIP Parapsychology: PSIFILES.ZIP Photographs, Movies, etc.: PICFILES.ZIP Political Stuff: POLFILES.ZIP Science Stuff: SCIFILES.ZIP Channeling, New Age Stuff: CHAFILES.ZIP USA UFO Sightings: USAFILES.ZIP Okay, enough questions, is this available now? Right now. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:30:54 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:17:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > Date: 12 Feb 97 10:03:40 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:09:52 -0800 > >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > >To: updates@globalserve.net > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory] > Jan, > Interesting stuff. > Are you familiar with the Brown Mountain Lights seen > on the side of Brown Mountain in North Carolina from > across the Linville Gorge? I have some small articles about the lights. Did not visit the site as planned this last year. And in a fit of forgetfulness, did not check the "Brown Mtn lights" at the North Carolina archives. > This is practically in my > back yard, so I have been down there a number of times > and have seen the lights a few times. They look like > someone moving around on the side of the mountain with > a bright lantern. Sometimes they just drift along slowly, > sometimes jump rapidly from place to place, and sometimes > just wink out and appear again later somewhere else on the > mountain. These have been seen for as long as there have > been people to see them, indians before the settlers, and > explanations have run the gamut. Most recently they are > explained as car headlights refracted somehow from the > highway on the other side of the mountain, but this is > ludicrous since they were being seen long before the > invention of the motorcar. They have been captured on film > and video numerous times. > Although I have never gone over to the side of the mountain > myself, I am told by people who have that there is some > sort of optical illusion at work, since it is impossible to > get close to the lights. I have a collection of an number of these so called "spook or ghost" lights acount from the US and Canada. Some are optical illusions as you said. The one thing I do remember about the Brown Mtn lights was that after the a good rain they seem to increase frequency and number. This lead to some discussion of the lights being possibly chemical in nature. As far as I know, this idea was never tested. > Anyway, there is no tectonic or seismic activity in this > area, so at least as far as I know this sort of > "explanation" has never been advanced. > Whatever the lights are, there is no question in my mind > that they are some sort of natural phenomenon and not > related to the UFO phenomenon. I certainly agree. I had a file of events called "mountain lights." It is lost. However, one of the incidents was from the USAF catchall file, the "Max File." Will dig it out and post it soon. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 13 Feb 97 20:33:32 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:15:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory The Duke's compliments to Grumpy Scrooge & all... > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith again ... > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:16:07 -0600 (CST) The only point I think I need take up is this: > With all the nitpicking about definitions of jargon and who said > what and where, the bottom line is that statistical studies cannot be > used to support a "mysterious mechanism" that can evolve from seismic > energy, piezoelectricity and plasma discharges in the atmosphere. Not that one, anyway, if it is as flawed as you say. However, it seems to me entirely beside the point to hammer on about Dr P's "classic paper" now, when other studies since have shown a relation- ship, a correlation or what have you between lights and seismic events. Because Dr P was wrong first time doesn't wipe out the results of other ways of investigating his proposal. That's what you didn't address when responding to John Powell and that's what irritated me. Just as it irritates me when you drag in ancient dowsings long since abandoned (and hardly furtively) by the Dragon Project. I *still* have the impression you are not up-to-date when you complain about the "methodology" (i.e. methods). Dr P's scattergun has long since been abandoned, too (as in the Welsh research mentioned by Paul). And I'm sufficiently impressed by what I know is "in the pipeline" to think *some* UFOs are caused by *some* kind of natural light phenomenon *somehow* caused by tectonic events (or *some* of them), at least probably. And, as every academic paper thirsting after more grant dollars ever said, "more research is needed". Well, shitfire and don't pass the matches, of course I could be mistaken in my judgement. I do have a few human bits left under the scales, tho' I try not to let the ladies see them. Otherwise we appear to agree sufficiently on matters of principle not to continue our side of the argy bargy in this place at this time. Hmm. Have to think about a review copy. Might cost me. Ole Sasquatch knows how I never pay my round. Because getting expenses past Mrs Goldberg at the Embassy is such a damn pain, that's why. best P. Mendoza Blandsmirk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: Earth lights controversy: back to basics From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 13 Feb 97 20:33:21 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:14:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Earth lights controversy: back to basics The Duke presents his compliments, and (strictly on the two-pennorth level) these comments: > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:20:47 -0800 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Earth lights controversy: back to basics > I don't nor does Chris "constantly attack" anyone. Please choose your > words more carefully. You seem to "know" quite a bit after just a few > days! If we're going to talk about the tone of the debate, Jan, to me at least you are beginning to sound shrill and, frankly, childish. This does not become you, judging from what else of yours I've read. Paul knows "quite a bit" because I send him copies of the messages on the thread when inviting him to comment. Even if I hadn't, there is such thing as the Web archive. Why don't you stick to the issue? > When they become universal explanations for what I am studying, they > can expect some review from this quarter. [...snip...] However, the > theories are used to debunk UFO. End of story. Since when did UFOs require a "universal explanation"? Who is suggesting that GMLs(TM) should be one such explanation? Hoaxes, misperceptions and hallucinations are used to debunk UFOs, too, and quite properly when they can be proven to have occurred, within a balance of probabilities or better beyond reasonable doubt. Does you mean we should stop looking for hoaxers because not all UFO reports can be shown to be hoaxes? What do you mean by debunking, then? Best wishes from a bemused (and, ironically, photophobic) Duke P.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: 'Libel' From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:56:28 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:18:25 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' >Date: 13 Feb 97 10:42:47 EST >From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Libel >This arrogant attitude of the 'untouchables' has led to instances >such as the one where UK ufologist Jenny Randles was sued by >Stanton Friedman merely for expressing her opinion. I was unaware of this. Do you have more information? Best Wishes, Michael -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Re: 'Libel' From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:59:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:19:38 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' > From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: UFO UpDate 'Libel' > Date: Thursday, February 13, 1997 6:30 AM > From: rich.boylan@24stex.com > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 20:20:11 -0800 > Subject: Libel > To: updates@globalserve.net > > investigation, but as a fellow experiencer I must caution you in the > > strongest way about associating with Boylan. He's a paranoiac, clearly > > delusional, and worse of all, a degenerate predator that thinks > > nothing of using his position/credentials to take sexual advantage of > > women > > John Velez > Mr. Velez, > The above false and defamatory statements by you constitute criminal > libel. > A ffull and complete retraction is requested at once. > Dr. Richard Boylan Careful there Dick, perhaps senility is setting in. I seem to recall a certain conversation at the Zuvich's wherein you stated something to the effect that you "had made a slight error in judgement". Not only was I present, but one Steven Vernon Jones as well. I hardly think that Steven upon cross examination and possibly perjuring himself will lie on your behalf especially if faced with a stiff fine. It doesn't amount to a hill of beans that you settled the three suits brought against you by the women in question out of court. Have a nice day Dick... Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Lee (Leon) Shargel Research - Fraud From: noah@webex.net Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:59:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:22:47 -0500 Subject: Lee (Leon) Shargel Research - Fraud Tim, In my research on Lee(short for Leon) Shargel, I have found the following: Lee Shargel claims he wrote two books published by TOR publications, "Voice in the Mirror", 4/96, Science Fiction, and "Chulos", 2/93, Science Fiction. I called TOR PUBLICATIONS (1-800-221-7945 Ext. 838), they have no such books on record nor a Lee Shargel!!!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Lee Shargel claims he wrote "Shakespeare & Socrates" 1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996 (series), Juvenile Fiction, published by Veerhoven. There is no record of Veerhoven publications.!!!!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Lee Shargel's Biography is listed on the net (I found through Yahoo). The address is: http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=shargel&hc=0&hs=0. I clicked for the biography, and gee ! to my surprise, the following came up - - - "Http/1.0 404 not found" !!!!!!!!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------- The only thing I found that he has published are two Texbooks for courses on Pharmacy. They are listed at web site as follows: http://www.cpb.uokhsc.edu/common/anonymous/pk/topic006.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Lee Shargel says he is a winner of national playwrights award for "We Can Make A Difference". I have found no such award for Lee Shargle and no such play. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Research by Bob Ruhoy noah@webex.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 13 Project 1947 - 1909-10 Accounts From: Jan Aldrich <jan@CYBERZONE.NET> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:02:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:21:05 -0500 Subject: Project 1947 - 1909-10 Accounts From: <legion@werple.net.au> Subject: PJ-47 - 1910 To: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 07:28:18 +1100 (EST) *Willimantic (CT) Chronicle 1 Jan 1910 THAT MYSTERIOUS AIRSHIP (From the New Haven Journal-Courier) Where does it come from? What is it? Who does it belong to? These are the questions which have come to the mind of newspaper readers all over New England and in New York during the last fortnight. From a score or more localities reports have come of a wonderful mechanism, which has been seen skimming along, high in the air, above out cities. It has invariable come in the night time, when big searchlights of tremendous power have gleamed from out of the darkness like the eyes of some monster living creature of the imagination. It is quite impossible to believe we are all suffering from a common hallucination. If the wonderful flying apparatus is the product of the brain of Wallace Tillinghast of Worcester, as the public tends to believe, then that gentlemen has good reason to be secretive about it. Apparently, as compared with this creation, the flying machines of the Wright brothers, who have been generally recognized as being the leaders of the world in aeronautics up to the present moment, seem very crude. Mr. Tillinghast, presuming him to be the owner and inventor, undoubtedly has in mind a thorough perfection of this airship before giving the public more than an inkling about it. He may realize that this or almost any government would pay a fabulous sum for airships as successful as this one is, provided their details have been kept in strict secrecy. On the other hand, it is scarcely to be believed that such a phenomenal invention could be successfully and continually kept secret. The Springfield Republican suggests a gigantic hoax in this connection. "The idea suggests itself," it says, "that the Worcester Telegram is trying to emulate the New York Sun by bringing out a sort of semicentennial edition of Edgar Allan Poe's celebrated balloon hoax. in that story, it will be remembered, Poe pictured a "dirigible balloon's voyage across the Atlantic ocean with a party of seven or eight men." But the stories of how this strange craft of the air had been seen have come from so many different localities that it is well-nigh impossible to be believe there could be any hoax back of it. Indeed, as the Republican says, undoubtedly referring to the recent Cook affair: "it will be observed that hoaxes are not popular just now." =================================================================== *Willimantic (CT) Chronicle 22 Oct 1909 WAS IT A METEOR THAT STRUCK STORRS? Terrific Explosion Heard and Big Ball of Fire Seen Early This Morning -- House Damaged. Willimantic people heard a heavy peal of thunder, accompanying which was a sharp of lightning, at 12:35 o'clock this morning. There was only this one report but at Storrs it was so terrific as to wake nearly everybody up, many people getting up to see what happened. Mr. Beebe, the store-keeper at Storrs, says the report was like a great explosion and according to him some of the people at Storrs believe a meteor exploded although no pieces of anything like a meteor have been found. There are several big holes in the ground, however, that may have been made by the pieces of the meteor, if that is what it was, burying themselves. F. C. Guenther, clerk at the agricultural college, and Frank McLean, the football coach, happened to be up during the storm and when the explosion occurred they looked out and saw what looked like a huge ball of fire descending. This struck a telegraph pole near Mr. Beebe's store, splintering and twisting the pole, and then entering F. M. Chadwick's house, going in near the ground and working up towards the roof, tearing off base-board, breaking glass, making holes in ceilings and passing out over a door, but not setting the house on fire. Dr. R. C. White was at Storrs today and said that whatever caused the damage was some terrific force. There are four or five big holes in the ground, all within a radius of 25 or 30 feet. It may have been a meteor that struck Storrs, and then again it may have been just lightning. =================================================================== *Willimantic (CT) Chronicle 23 Oct 1909 'TWAS NO LIGHTNING DECLARES MCLEAN What Football Coach at the State College Saw Was Probably a Meteorite. Frank McLean, the football coach at the Connecticut Agricultural college, in talking with a Chronicle reporter today in relation to the alleged meteorite that burst over the village of Storrs early yesterday morning, said that he had seen a lot of lightning, but none of it was like what he beheld yesterday morning as he stood at his bed-room window at the college. From over the hill, back of the dairy barn, there suddenly came a ball of fire leaving a trail of light behind, some thirty or forty feet long. There was no zig-zagging, but a direct course. The ball of fire in its movement made a sizzling sound and there followed a terrific explosion such as he had never heard before. "Words cannot describe the sight nor the nature of that explosion," said McLean. F. M. Chadwick, whose house was struck, said that when the report came he and his family were stunned. The house seemed to rock and they were thrown to the floor. As soon as they recovered they got up but found no evidence of fire. A telegraph pole in front of Chadwick house was splintered in fine pieces and there was a large hole in the ground. ==================================================================== *Willimantic (CT) Chronicle 11 Aug 1909 METEOR EXPLODES, AROUSES WINSTED Night Policeman Saw the Ball of Fire Pass Over the Methodist Church Steeple Winsted, August 11.--Hundreds of citizens of this vicinity were awakened by a terrrific explosion early this morning. As soon as daylight appeared telephone and telegraph wires were busy to ascertain what had caused the explosion, but the first solution of the mystery came from Lyman R. Woodworth, night policeman, who stated that it was caused by a meteor. He said that at 2:30 the heavens were lighted up by a ball of fire which came out of the northwest and disappeared over the Methodist church steeple. A few seconds later he heard the sxplosion. His story is corroborated by J. L. Dewey. ==================================================================== *Willimantic (CT) Chronicle 7 Jan 1910 THAT MYSTERIOUS AIRSHIP A Number of Norwich People Believe it to be a Large Paper Balloon. A number of Norwich people, who saw sailing over the city what was supposed by a few to be the mysterious airship which has been reported so often of late declare now that in their opinion it was nothing but a large paper balloon, the kind that is put up on Fourths of July. It traveled with the wind, which strengthens their belief. There was a ribbon of smoke in its wake, such as the burning torch of a paper balloon gives forth. It would be surprising if someone is trying to hoax the public in this way. =================================================================== *The Willimantic Chronicle 24 Dec 1909, Page 1 CRAFT OF MYSTERY FINALLY TRACKED TO ITS LAIR--PERHAPS! Home of the Worcester Aeroplane Located in west Boylston, Massachusetts, it is Believed. SHED IS IN DENSE WOODS ON J. B. GOUGH ESTATE While Trying to Get Close to the Place United Press Representative Was Captured, Haled Before Justice of the Peace and Fined for Trespass. Worcester, Mass., Dec 24.--The home of the mysterious aeroplane which has been cruising at unheard of altitudes over Massachusetts for the last two nights and causing wonderment to thousands, it is believed has been found. Scouring the country about Worcester in a search for the home of the Tillinghast machine a United Press representative discovered at West Boylston, six miles from this city, that fourteen men in the employ of Paul B. Morgan of the Morgan Construction company of Worcester were busy in some secret occupation on the old estate of John B. Gough, the old-time temperance lecturer. On this estate, and situated in dense woods, there is a shed more than 100 feet long which, it is believed, contains the aeroplane that is to startle the world. No aeroplane was seen by the United Press representative, however. As he was advancing through the woods to reconnoiter he was captured by some of the men employed on the estate, haled before a justice of the peace and fined for trespass. This, so far, is the only clue to the aeroplane. That it is pregnant with possibilities, however, is certain from the fact that Paul B. Morgan is known as an intimate of Wallace E. Tillinghast and is also known to be interested in aerial navigation. Two years ago Morgan spent $15,000 on the aeroplane of a Swedish aviator but later abandoned it as unsatisfactory. It is now thought that with Tillinghast he has perfected the machine which has been sailing over New England, the same that Tillinghast declares he used in a flight from here to New York and return on September 8. Through Tillinghast himself is belived to have been himself in Worcester last night thousands all over Massachusetts today declare the aeroplane associated with his declarations and probably manned by his mechanics was winging its way through the skies up to last midnight. Between six o'clock last evening until midnight its flashlights were trailed from Marlboro to Fitchburg and back through Worcester, thence to Boston via Natick, Wellesley, Newton and Needham. From Boston the light passed to the northeast, circling over Chelsea and Revere, through Lynn toward the Salem line, then returning as far as Farmingham where it mysteriously disappeared from the eager searchings of newspaper men who hoped to trail the daring aerial navigator to his lair and unfathom the mystery which has now perturbed the entire eastern part of the state. Many of the 10,000 people who saw the light are positive in their belief that made the outlines of the same aerial craft that closely resembled a monoplane of the type used by Latham and Bleriot. They say the machine was under perfect control and that it flew close to the ground, coming as near to the earth as 100 feet in Natick and later rising to fully 1,000 feet. Some say there were two men in the craft. One was standing forward near the headlight, which has been seen by thousands of people, and the second man was in the stern, where a much dimmer light was burning. They say the craft at times attained a speed of fully 80 miles an hour, while again it remained stationary for fifteen minutes at a time. =================================================================== *The Willimantic Chronicle 24 Dec 1909 "COME, RIDE IN MY AIRSHIP" INVITATION AWAITED BY MANY! Bright Light in the East Had Willimantic Folks, Hundreds of Them Guessing. TWINKLING LITTLE STAR SOME SAY IT WAS. Others, and Plenty of Them, Sure it was Tillinghast's or Some Other Aerial Craft That Had All Eyes Turned Towards the Eastern Skies Last Night. ---------------- Twinkle, twinkle little star, How I wonder what you are, Up above the world so high, Like an airship in the sky. ---------------- There was a bright light in the east last night and the wise ones sized it up for Tillinghast's mysterious airship. It was about 7:30 o'clock that the light was first noticed and it was then in the southeast, appearing to be above the tread plant as viewed from the foot of Railroad street but a long way off--from a twenty to thirty miles in the opinion of some of the people who saw it. Prosaic policemen and some other matter-of-fact persons winked the other eye when the airship was mentioned but there were plenty of people who were quite willing to declare, and did so declare, that what they saw in the eastern sky answered in all particulars the descriptions sent out of the mystifying aerial craft that has been aerial craft that has been creating such a sensation in Worcester and other Massachusetts cities and villages. There were several hundred in Willimantic who saw what they believed to have been an airship and others said it was Halley's comet. Whatever it was it caused considerable excitement for a while and the curious ones spent several hours with their eyes riveted on the heavens. The light in the southeast looked like a powerful searchlight. Because of its size and the rays it threw out it attracted wide attention. It remained stationery for a few minutes and then seemed to shoot upwards, then circle around as though the person manipulating it was trying to get his bearings. As usual Mayor Dunn's store was crowded about that time and Benjamin Murphy, time-keeper on the New Haven road, came into the place calling the men out to see the airship. Mayor Dunn was among them and he stated last night when seen by a Chronicle reported //sic// that he would not swear it was an airship but it certainly did look like one. Others who saw it were of the same opinion. The light was miles away apparently and quite high in the air. It played in the east for about fifteen minutes and then vanished. Later there appeared a brilliant star in the firmament and those who had not seen the first light and saw this star were of the opinion that both light were one and the same, but those who saw the first light said it was no star. People who had come down street to do their Christmas shopping forgot what they had come for and stood on the sidewalk and even in the middle of the street looking to the east, hoping to see the return of the airship. Some of the skeptics ones just because they did not hear the buzzing of the engine or get an introduction to the man running the ship, laughed at those who claimed it was an airship they saw. The skeptics could not account, though, for the strange light and its peculiar accounts. It was too bad that the airship, if it was one, did not come nearer the city so that the people could inspect the machine. The scoffers would then have had no ground for scoffing. One of the skeptics had a lot of fun during the evening puting the credulous ones "wise" to the "airship." Pointing to the bright star he would say "See it? It's the airship, stopped for repairs. The fellow running it dropped a monkey wrench overboard and it struck a man on the head, and they've taken him to the hospital!" And strange to say, to such a pitch of excitement had the crowd been wrought up that even this story found believers. Reserved seats for this evening's performance are now on sale. A few choice ones left for the early comers. A dispatch sent out from Boston says: Following the report from Worcester Wednesday night of the discovery above the city of a strange moving light, apparently the searchlight of a dirigible airship, Thursday night brought stories from many points of the observance of similar lights Thursday evening from villages east of Worcester and even from Boston Common. People in the towns of Marlboro, South Framingham, Natick, Ashland, Grafton, North Grafton, Upton, Hopedale and Northboro turned out in throngs and viewed a mysterious light in the heavens. Many declared that the light had all the appearance of a strong searchlight and while they could discover no framework behind it, such as an aeroplane would have, they were positive that the light could not be that of a balloon, as it moved as if under control, and apparently against the wind. If the lights seen last night were those of an airship, Mr. Tillinghast was not the navigator of the craft, for he remained at his home in Worcester. It is estimated that fully fifty thousand people thronged the streets of Worcester watching for the reapearance of the visitor in the skies. The passage of trolley cars was seriously impeded by the gaping crowds in the main thoroughfares. For most of the curious the watch was unrewarded. People on the tops of buildings told of seeing a light pass rapidly at some distance south of the city, but it was smaller and much less brilliant than the one seen Wednesday night. =================================================================== NEW LONDON HAS A WILBUR CURTIS! Story about a New London resident who has an aeroplane who plans to test fly it Christmas day. It crashed. Later he said he would repair it and try to fly it again in the spring. =================================================================== *The Willimantic (CT) Chronicle, Tuesday, 28 Dec 1909, page 1 AIRSHIP PASSES OVER CITY OF NORWICH Many People Saw it but They Were Unable to Tell How Many Persons Were in it That the "airship" that many Willimantic people saw or thought they saw last Thursday night may have been an airship after all, and that the stories sent out by local newspapermen were not such complete "fakes" as some persons would have the public believe, is indicated by the following account of an airship printed in the "Norwich Bulletin" this morning in its Norwich news:-- "Between 7:30 and 8 o'clock Monday evening there were many in the central part of the city who were watching an airship as it passed over the city, going in a southerly direction. There was no noise to be heard and no particular demonstration with the searchlight, but the fact that the lights were moving attracted attention, and it was wached //sic// until it disappeared. It was not very high, but it was impossible to tell how many were in it. That it was not a star is the positive statement of those who saw it. "It was not a steady level flight like that of a bird, but there was occasionally a dip to the airship and as it went along a second light now and then bobbed into view. It was a fine, clear bright night for a flight, but the operator must have been clothed like Perry on his Artic trip, to defy the cold of the night." The "New Haven" Palladium" says: it was on the Christmas day just passed, that New Haveners witnessed for the first time in their home city an exhibition of the aeroplane, the invention of which was the real conquest of the air. A mysterious heavier-than-air machine circled the city during Christmas day, and at such a height that its real form, its pilot and its mechanics were not discernible, but it was properly enough within our vision to leave no doubt as to what the stranger was, it circled the air in a manner that is impossible for the balloon or the dirigible, and it was too large for any of the now known feathered inhabitants of the globe. Many of us have seen the aeroplane on exhibition in trial flights at low altitudes, but those who saw the mysterious stranger of Christmas were treated to the real thing in air conquests. It was a great spectacle in the skies. The aeroplane was genreally believed to be the one which has been flying for many months past in New England, traveling incognito, as it were, for the stranger, while owned in Worchester, comes to earth and leaves it inparts unknown to the public. The owner claims that it is the greatest of all heavier-than-air contrivances, and after what we saw the other day we agree with him, if the Christmas day visitor was really Mr. Tillinghast in his greatest of airships. It was a stirring sight and encouraged our thoughts to the great achievements of mankind. In all of the seriousness of the incident there was also the humorous side to it, and no better shown perhaps than in the statement of the little newsboy who exclaimed. "That is nothing only Santa Claus going home after a hard night's work." ==================================================================== -- *------------------------------* |..............................| |.... legion@werple.net.au ....| |..............................| *------------------------------*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 14 Re: Earth lights controversy: back to basics From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:57:31 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:58:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Earth lights controversy: back to basics Peter Brookesmith wrote: > Date: 13 Feb 97 20:33:21 EST > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Earth lights controversy: back to basics > The Duke presents his compliments, and (strictly on the two-pennorth level) > these comments: > > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:20:47 -0800 > > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Earth lights controversy: back to basics > > I don't nor does Chris "constantly attack" anyone. Please choose your > > words more carefully. You seem to "know" quite a bit after just a few > > days! > If we're going to talk about the tone of the debate, Jan, to me > at least you are beginning to sound shrill and, frankly, childish. Rather amazing what creative editing can do. I believe I have only mentioned Persinger in two or three posts prior to Paul's post. That is hardly, constantly attacking him. If it is shrill or childish to point this fact out, so be it. I dissent from *some* of Persinger's positions--especially some of the more public ones which seem rather extravagant. As I thought I pointed out in my post, I have certain problems with his claims and methods--it appears you do also if I read what your post of 20:33:32 hours, 13 Feb to Chris correctly--but not with him. I do have an agenda, but it is hardly hidden. I believe--one of the few beliefs I allow myself--that there might be something to this UFO business. By defintion anyone who is interested in UFOs is nut. But it is rather bad form to say one has "psycological issues." Someone who had been around here for awhile would know you should accuse the villian of being a member of the UFO-cover-up, the Worldwide Mind Control- Intelligence cabal, a disinformation agent or some such. Much better form than having "psycological issues", don't you think? > This does not become you, judging from what else of yours I've read. > Paul knows "quite a bit" because I send him copies of the messages > on the thread when inviting him to comment. Even if I hadn't, there > is such thing as the Web archive. Why don't you stick to the issue? From my daily reads here, it hadn't occurred to me that was a pre-requisite of posting on this list. <g> > > When they become universal explanations for what I am studying, they > > can expect some review from this quarter. [...snip...] However, the > > theories are used to debunk UFO. End of story. > Since when did UFOs require a "universal explanation"? Some people seem to think they do. Remember: skyhook balloons, ball-lighting, mirages? Levelland, Texas is November 1957 is instructive: Keyhoe: They are space ship. LaPaz: They are some type military experiment. Menzel: They are mirages. We may have well had something that was unique, but no one said so. Everyone had their own ideas. Maybe some type of unusual weather phenomenon or even earthlight for all I know. Same thing seem to happen in Kansas a few days later. It was not widely reported. Perhaps, we were treated to a-once-in-a- decade unusual phenomenon, but you wouldn't know it with all the preconceived notions immediately trotted out. > Who is suggesting that GMLs(TM) should be one such explanation? In the same way skyhook balloons, dust-motes in the eye, ball lightning, etc. were. Would you like quotes around "universal"? Please lets not be too literal here. I don't think Dr. Cotton when he offered his 'dust-mote' theory, or Dr. Liddel with skyhooks, or Phil Klass with 'ball lightning' meant that every UFO could be explained by their theories. > Hoaxes, misperceptions and hallucinations are used to debunk UFOs, > too, and quite properly when they can be proven to have occurred, > within a balance of probabilities or better beyond reasonable doubt. > Does you mean we should stop looking for hoaxers because not all UFO > reports can be shown to be hoaxes? Of course not. > What do you mean by debunking, then? Once again, if UFOs are explained by: long lasting 100 foot diameter ball lightning, natural lasers, electrified moon-dust, TST or whatever, then the study UFOs is justified to find more out about these postulated phenomena. *This is my central issue!* However, in the most cases the story stops when the explanation offered. That is what I mean by the use of the postulated phenomena as only a debunking device. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 14 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:24:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:55:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: "SyntaX" <wsawers@ihug.co.nz> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:41:03 +1300 >As I understand it, the genitalia were, in most versions scrambled so >as not to offend the delicate American publics morale ;-). The >version we saw in New Zealand didn't have this scrambling, and apart >from what _looks_ like a verticle slit,it is IMO nothing more than a >verticle shadow. If this is the case, then it leaves me with the >conclusion that the creature is asexual (without sex organs at all. >Which can open up a whole new area of speculation. Possibilities of >clones, wokers, non-reproducing colonisers etc spring to mind. The >imagination can go wild???? > >Has anyone else whom has seen the unedited version share my opinion. >I think this area could be vital. Not prove whether it's a SFX, >(which is another question) but if it is as theorised by others as an >unusually deformed hunan being, it does seem to make it harder to >imagine all these defects _including_ the lack of genitalia >occuring in the one human ? To the best of my knowledge, the only version that was scrambled was the version shown by FOX (three times over a six month period). The Vidmark video of that program included the uncut video they had purchased from Santilli, without the scrambling, at the end of the tape. There were several other pirated versions also being sold in the U.S. there were also un-modified. Descriptions of the "First Autopsy" seem to indicate that there are some very large differences between the creatures "plumbing" and that of a human. If the two videos appear to be of the same type of creature, then the "deformed human" theory becomes very strained. >I also have heard there are three films. One quite bad quality inside >a tent at the crash site. This purportedly shows the crashed wreck, >but I'm not sure about that part. It was filmed in a tent though, >which supports the cameramans staement that he only had the bad >quality film to work with. I believe there are actually five different sequences that have been edited together by Ray and his partners. The "Second Autopsy", "Debris Sequence", and the "Short Tent Sequence" were all sold by Ray on his video and rights for their broadcast were also sold to Kiviat and others. The "First Autopsy" and what is called the "Long Tent Sequence" have not been released for distribution, and only the "Long Tent Sequence" has been shown in public. The "First Autopsy" has been seen in private by a handful of researchers. The "Short Tent Sequence" was sent to Kiviat, who allegedly complained that he knew there was a much better version available. It is so dark that it is hard to make anything out, and he decided to ignore it in the first production. My understanding is that it will be a part of any update to his program, and should prove to be quite interesting. A few images from that can be found at http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ , along with a few enhancements that were performed. >I think it is important that we remember that the film/vid we have >seen are edited together from the film the cameraman said "_needed >work_", for various reasons, including, over-exposure, difficult >focusing, lighting and generally not up to the standard to be sent on >immediately with the rest of the film. Who's to say the parts you >think are missing were OK without the above flaws and sent on to >whoever contracted him to do the film in the first place, along with >the rest of the _acceptable_ film. Hence the lack of continuity in >parts. If you can find a copy of the original video sold by Ray, you will see the film segments individually, and not edited together. Ray was also convinced to include an image of the film box labels in between the segments, which shows how they were identified. The cameraman allegedly forwarded film that did not need special processing and held back those he wanted to do himself. It can be argued that the hoaxers simply left out sequences that would have been too difficult to fake convincingly, or even decided to cut them out and never let them see the light of day because they failed to look convincing. I'm primarily thinking of the removal of the rib cage. It's quite apparent that the "pathologists" knew exactly what they were doing throughout most of the proceedure. They rarely took time to examine what they were cutting into, and it is obvious to me that they weren't performing an exploratory examination of a completely new and unknown "creature". It also appears that the film record is being made to simply document the proceedure, not to document the evidence. There is some indication that a recorded sound track was also made, but that is (of course) unavailable. Take care, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 14 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Feb 97 07:41:28 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:53:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From the Duke of Mendoza, greetings. [This note I thought I had mailed to Feral Errol for posting, but apparently I had buried it somewhere else instead. It is the "separate post" mentioned in mine of 971202 responding to Jan. What with everyone talking at once anyway it will only add a little to the prevailing confusion so what the hell.--PB] > From: Chris Rutkowski (rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca) > Date: 11 Feb 97 09:34:04 EST > Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:21:50 -0500 > Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > If you're talking about Devereux's pendulum-dowsing efforts I think I can smell the smoke and steam from New York State from here. What is this rubbish? Why should I, or anyone, take what you say seriously when you misrepresent like this? I've known Paul since 1981. I've never heard him mention dowsing, "energy lines" and earthlights in the same breath without approaching a condition of apoplexy. Have you actually maintained *any* contact with what he's been doing in the last two decades? This makes me wonder if you have read anything by Persinger since his original tract, obviously. Or have you just ignored it? Or what? What is this crap? Deep breath. Briefly, pending an answer to the above, I note: > or Brady's plasmas > inside rock core samples or Derr's ball lightning, they hardly have > *anything* to do with supporting Persinger's TST. Not what you said in your admirably balanced: UFOs as Natural Phenomena. In: Evans, H. & Spencer, J., eds. UFOS 1947-1987: THE 40-YEAR SEARCH FOR AN EXPLANATION. London: Fortean Tomes, 1987. pp. 273-279. although this was, of course, 10 years ago. But I also observe that of the four articles cited in support of your many works on the TST, three are by the amazing Steuart Campbell, who having once proclaimed all UFOs ball lightning now thinks all UFOs are mirages and (I have his communications to prove it) puts words into mouths, or wordprocessors, that have said precisely the opposite. You really want friends like this? > It is *possible* that EM effects *may* be responsible for some > aspects of UFO-related cases. However, this has not been > demonstrated. If Persinger's UFO data was flawed, start again. Meanwhile there is plenty of evidence that quakes generate weird light effects. Light was a form of EM radiation, last time I looked. If quakes make lights, why should less dramatic wriggles in the Earth not do the same? The only question is whether "unexplained" UFO reports and tectonically- generated lights can be linked. It strikes me as unlikely in the extreme that some natural lights would not be reported as UFOs and remain in the unsolved tray - and there they will stay as long as ufologists pretend natural lights don't exist or are somehow "obviously" separate from UFOs. > Perhaps with some solid research efforts and a thorough examination > of the data and methodology, the TST *might* be refinable to a point > where it can be acceptable as a viable theory. But not yet. Putting aside my good intentions or poor judgement, I am NOT supporting Persinger's TST per se, to the letter: I *am* saying it is a good idea worth testing, even if it means starting again with different data, which I gather has been done. And it is no good whingeing about "known mechanisms", still less saying long-since-irrelevant things about PD and pendulums, until the correlations between geophysical events and lights are in place. On that, some "solid research" is forthcoming. We may end up with something that's not the TST, but then Lavoisier didn't get to oxygen without the phlogiston theory to kick around. Nor did old Albert get to relativity without the ether. As for picking apart, at this stage, the differences between ball lightning, ELs, quake lights and the rest: I am strangely reminded of the two, three or was it four? apparently distinct viruses that were once bitterly competing for title of HIV - and when polymerase chain reaction came along they turned out to be all the same thing. There are lots of other lessons,too, in that little saga for everybody. best wishes Mendoza of the Mountains Duke of Christmas Past
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 14 Re: 'Libel' From: EMMISER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:48:41 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:57:26 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' Dave Furlotte wrote: >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:56:55 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Libel' > As my dear old granny used to say, "If you can't say > something NICE about someone, don't say anything at all!" Might I add the well known words: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!" Ellie
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 14 Richard Boylan, Ph.D. From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:54:22 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:56:16 -0500 Subject: Richard Boylan, Ph.D. Good move, Errol. This is a discussion list, true, but I'm sure 90% of the stuff can be done on person-to-person mail. Jakes E. Louw IT Consultant HP-UX Support TTS 311-2668 louwje@telkom.co.za
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 14 Test Message - Ignore From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:08:19 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:08:19 -0800 Subject: Test Message - Ignore +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Feb 97 10:15:43 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:27:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: "SyntaX" <wsawers@ihug.co.nz> >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:41:03 +1300 William, I have not yet seen the first autopsy on video, but I do have some still images from it. While the quality is not very good, they are good enough to indicate that the structure of the creature inside the "genital" slit is decidedly non-human. There do not appear to be any labia minora, and in the one image in which this area is focused on it looks as though there are two small openings side by side about where the urethral opening would be in a human, and one large opening below where the vaginal opening would be in a human. If this is correct, it would possibly imply direct elimination of urine from each kidney and possibly no urinary bladder. Of course that is all based on a mammalian model, and some features of these creatures are more reptilian than mammalian. So we have something with no navel, no nipples, and decidedly non-mammalian "genitals". If a human/dinosauroid hybrid was possible, this is what I would expect it to look like. Other reptilian/dinosauroid features are almost total lack of subcutaneous fat, smooth brain lacking gyri and sulci, lack of facial musculature, shape and location of liver, and I'm sure there are others. The exceptionally large eyes would imply evolution in a dimly lighted place or nocturnal/crepuscular lifestyle. Dark eye lenses would be necessary for something adapted this way to see in normal earth daylight. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Article on Mutilations in Feb. GQ (Synopsis) From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Feb 97 10:15:36 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:25:04 -0500 Subject: Article on Mutilations in Feb. GQ (Synopsis) >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:13:11 -0800 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) >Subject: Article on Mutilations in Feb. GQ (Synopsis) Glenn, I read the article by Jack Hitt (appropriate name!) several weeks ago and decided to refrain from comment. Linda is a friend, and an honest researcher, and the article is really nothing more than an extended ego bloat by Mr. Hitt and the classic ploy of blaming the messenger because you do not like the message. He essentially says that reports of animal mutilations would go away if Linda was not there to report them to. What kind of loon logic is that?? The reports existed long before Linda became involved (from Argentina in the late 60s, the first ones I became aware of) and I am quite sure they would continue if Linda closed up shop tomorrow. If Mr. Hitt has solved the mystery of animal mutilations by blaming Linda, then let's watch out for him as he solves the UFO mystery by blaming UFOlogy! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Feb 97 10:15:41 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:26:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:44:19 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bill, I do know that the Truman "read my lips" comment was something Reg Pressley said. He was apparently quoting Ray on this, because at that point the only film Reg had seen was the murky "tent footage", and it is obvious that Reg never saw Truman in that film. Ray's explanation is that he was quoting Jack, who had told him that he would be able to see Truman clearly enough to read his lips in some of the footage. At that time only a portion of the film had been made viewable, and everything Jack had claimed was there, so Ray was enthusiastic that he would have everything Jack claimed, including scenes with Truman and scenes of the crash recovery which included a big crane. As Ray later found out, less than half the film he got from Jack could be made viewable. It is my understanding that the roll of film with "Truman's" on the label is one of the worst, and is completely stuck together. It may be possible at some point to unstick this film and recover images from it, but that is not known at this time. Besides, we don't know what the label may have said. It may have said something like "Truman's team at the crash site", in which case Truman himself may not be present. We just don't know. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:30:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:28:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >Date: 11 Feb 97 15:02:42 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? >Graham, >I should have said that I was not disgusted with all of the presentations last >year, just more than half, and that I was not there for the entire conference. >Just to be fair. >BTW, you are one of the people from last year that I was not disgusted with!!! >What's your take on Bob Dean? Dear Bob, Thanks for marking my scorecard! As for Bob Dean? He's a warm and kind-hearted individual whose allegations about his time spent at SHAPE (Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe) in Paris, France, are legendary. There are those who question his claims to have seen a COSMIC TOP SECRET briefing document which he alleged contained a wealth of UFO information within, not least former Admiral of the Fleet, the Lord Hill Norton, and best-selling British author and UFO researcher, Timothy Good. Interestingly, it's now a matter of public record that there was such a classification called COSMIC TOP SECRET around in the 60s and still exists today, though the few ex-servicemen people who confirmed its existence were not privy to the data within. I personally spoke with two ex-Royal Navy submariners who told me COSMIC TOP SECRET was used in their radio-ops room. The point I'm making is that Bob Dean's critics insisted at the outset that there was no such classification - Timothy Good, although still firmly convinced that Dean's allegations should be taken with the proverbial pinch of salt, now acknowledges the classification does exist. As with all claims uttered by former military and intelligence personell about UFOs, I would simply say they must be treated with a great deal of cautious scepticism - not least because this group of people more than any other, have sworn allegiance to their sovereign or head of state. I've no doubt that some of these are engaged full-time in the UFO subject; some to monitor civilian activities and others to spread disinformation as and when required to do so. I do have one small but possibly significant snippet of news from my recent 2-week visit to the United States. On Thursday, 23 January, I spoke with Chuck Clarke at the Little A'le Inn in Rachel, Nevada. He revealed that only hours earlier, a USAF official (who Chuck trusts 100%) had spoken with him and revealed he had seen camouflaged hangar doors built into a mountain-side at S4 (Papoose Dry Lake - Area 51). This was the first independent corroboration of sorts that the hangar doors, first mentioned by Bob Lazar back in 1989, may indeed exist. I say 'may' because Chuck's information came by way of a serving USAF official. Nonetheless, it enters the melting pot along with the rest. All the best, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:34:45 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:32:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos All, Just for a quick reference. I've got the "read his lips" comment that Colin Andrews published in his newsletter sometime in 1995. >From CPRI Newsletter, Vol 3. No. 3. Colin Andrews wrote: He (Santilli) stated that it showed the crash scene and the debris being inspected and removed. It also showed two autopsies with one of the autopsy films showing very clearly President Truman watching the procedures. Allegedly, Truman is standing with others behind a glass screen and his face can be seen so clearly that you can lip-read his words. All the film is in black and white and without a sound track. According to the photographer, the second autopsy was undertaken in a military hospital in Dallas. I asked Santilli what was the most impressive thing he had seen on the film. What had convinced him that it was authentic - "I had no doubts" he said, "when I saw President Truman". Isn't it strange that Ray was quoted as saying "I had no doubts ... when I saw President Truman." Does this imply that he physically saw Truman on the film? IMO, YES it does. Now Ray says he was only going on what the cameraman said and the canister labels. Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:05:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:31:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:11:54 -0500 > From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, > >As far as Ray's deception goes, I can state a one important fact. Ray did > >purposefully and blatantly lie about Harry Truman being visible in the > >video". Thanks for the reference. > Ray has offered his explanation for this on a number of occasions, the most > detailed perhaps being in the ISCNI interview he gave to Linda Moulton > Howe: If this is the best he can do he needs to hire a better spin doctor. > Howe: And he filmed American military and intelligence personnel examining > the live creatures? > > Santilli: Absolutely. And he goes further than that. It's been a great bone > of contention. But he insists that Truman was there for one of the > autopsies as well. I know that the Truman Library says that Truman couldn't > have been there - but JB insists that Truman was there and that a > significant number of the military hierarchy were there as well at the > time. I don't know the names, but certainly people who mattered. He > confirms that in fact on one of the canisters we have, we see the name > "Truman" and a reel number, but unfortunately we weren't able to process > that one piece of film. This is amusing. Ray says he knows that the Truman Library says that Truman couldn't have been there. But that's not the story he told to Stanton Friedman in Jan 1995. Back then he told Stan that they had contacted the Truman Library and had proved that Truman was there in Dallas at the autopsy. Quoting Stanton Friedman on UFOs Tonite radio February 1995. "What really raised an eyebrow ... He(Ray) tells me he's got proof of everything, they've been researching this. ... He(Ray) said, we've proven that Truman was in Dallas at that time. I said oh! Did you talk to the Truman Library? And he(Ray) said, yes. Well, needless to say Stan contacted the Truman Library to try and followup on Ray's claims. Guess what? Stan was told by the Truman Library that Truman was nowhere in the state of Texas from July thru October of 1947. > Howe: Why are there conflicting stories about whether U. S. President Harry > S. Truman can be seen viewing one of the humanoids during autopsy? > > Santilli: I had no experience dealing with the UFO community. I come from > the very commercial world of music and video. And when we first received > the footage, I felt that today's technology would be able to retrieve all > the images and it wouldn't be a problem. I did make the mistake at the > beginning of saying to people: "Well, here's what we've got. Physically we > have got it." And I said that because it was the information given to me > by JB. I relayed the information in good faith that the cameraman was quite > certain that Truman was there, that he was in the autopsy room and JB said > "even if you can't hear him, you can lip read him because he's that close > on film." However, we have just not been able to retrieve the image on that > particular reel. A good 50% of the footage we had, we were not able to > retrieve an image from. But I made the mistake in the early days of saying > to everyone: "This is what we've got" and I've been hamstrung and quartered > because of it. But that was a mistake and we all learn by our mistakes. So, > I won't make that mistake again. > [End] This is such a lame excuse it's not even worth commenting on. > As an assumed hoax, it seems odd that Ray would claim he had film which he > presumably knew didn't exist, but there's a lot of strange aspects to the > affair. IMO, it was just a piece of the overall scam. He baited us with the idea that President Truman was in the film. > >It is the ones who hold the alleged film and the keys to the whereabouts > >of the alleged cameraman who should be held responsible for prooving this > >thing is real. They hold all the answers and can easily prove it's > >authencity. They have refused to do so thus far and until they do it > >should be considered a hoax. The burden of proof is theirs. > > The current issue (no. 5) of a relatively new UK magazine called the "X > FACTOR", has a 6 page article on the "alien autopsy" story. > > The article is basically a summary of various elements in the story and > Ray's reported comments, although brief, are of some interest. I quote: > > The X Factor asked music and film producer Santilli if the autopsy film had > been authenticated. > > "Yes, pieces of film were sent to Kodak for analysis. They've confirmed > that it dates from 1947". We all know this is NOT TRUE. > Could the alien be seen in the pieces of film sent for analysis? > > "No... I'm not prepared to give away any frames showing the creature. The > film's too valuable to cut up and send away". This is LAME. How much would it hurt to have 2 frames with the creature in it analyzed? I've heard that is what Tony Amato at Kodak requires to verify the film. > How do you feel, playing such a large part in this story? > > "It's been a nightmare. I've got a business to run, and all I've done in > the past year is answer questions about this film. I'd love to wash my > hands of it, once and for all". > [End] All he has done in the past 2 years is deceive, recant, backtrack and generally change his story about 10,000 times. > This seems to confirm the point I was making about Ray clearly confirming > well over a year ago, that providing some corroborative 16mm film samples > was no longer even an issue. > > It never really was an issue. To my knowledge, he never publicly said that > he would provide any substantive evidence. > > The comments about Kodak dating any film to 1947 are obviously not correct, > but he has said this on a number of occasions now and that seems to be the > final stance. It's so obvious that this whole thing is a SCAM. Are there no laws that can deal with this? It seems criminal to me. Maybe it's not against the law to profit from gulibility and stupidity. But it should be. Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Operation Right To Know From: CodeUFO@aol.com (by way of Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net>) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:34:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:29:21 -0500 Subject: Operation Right To Know I am simply sending this to you as one small step in the dissemination of such important material. It's possible you may show this material to someone else, who might possibly show it to another person, and that person to another and so on. Thanking you in advance for taking the time to read the following: SPEAK PLAINLY --------------------------- GO POLITICAL --------------------------- Hal McKenzie * Hal McKenzie worked as an editorial writer, reporter and editor at the News World newspaper in New York City from 1976, and first became interested in UFOs in 1981, when he was made editor of a weekly supplement called 'UFOs and Cosmic Phenomena'. In 1983, after the paper changed its name to the New York City Tribune, he edited the Commentary and Science sections until it ceased publication in 1991. He is now Current Issues editor at the World & I magazine, a publication of the Washington Times Corporation, in Washington, DC. 'Do you believe in UFOs?'This annoying question, asked of me more times than I would like to count, is, in my opinion, the most oppressive sentence in the English language. In particular, the words 'believe' and 'UFOs' form a semantic straitjacket which makes up a large part of that frustrating wall of confusion and denial that confronts almost everyone involved in serious UFO research. I believe there is a way, however, to break out of that straitjacket and bring down that wall. The answer lies in semantics and politics: semantics, because the terms popularly used to frame the UFO controversy tend to euphemize and confuse the issue; and politics, because it was political leaders making political decisions whose cowardice threw the entire issue of extraterrestrial contact into its present intellectual limbo. To clear up the fog and solve the UFO mystery itself, we must first explain plainly what we mean, and second, throw the entire issue into the political arena. Consider the word 'believe'. The whole point of Unidentified Flying Objects is that they are seen, which puts them in the category of facts, not belief.It is in one's reaction to the facts that belief plays a role. One can either deal with the facts rationally, drawing the most direct and logical conclusions from them without fear or favour; or one can allow personal conceits, myths and/or social conventions to intervene. Here emerges a gross abuse of language and a semantic fraud of major proportions: UFO researchers, as well as ordinary people whose lives have been turned upside down by close encounters of whatever kind, are labelled UFO 'believers' when, in fact, they are only drawing the most logical conclusions from the data, or reacting with normal human emotions to bizarre or terrifying sense-experiences. The real believers, in fact, are those who keep insisting that what is happening can't be happening; who deny, ignore or cover up the facts because the facts would upset their cherished belief systems. THE DENIAL SYNDROME ------------------- Psychologists have a word for this kind of stubborn, irrational belief that flies in the face of facts: denial. The denial syndrome is all too common in human life and history, where we can find innumerable examples, and not just in the area of UFOS. Consider, for example, the tragic and all-too-common case of a little girl who reports to her mother that her father often comes into her room at night and sexually abuses her.The mother angrily rebukes the child and tells her to stop telling 'lies'.The truth is so painful to the mother that her mind rebels against it or blocks it out: she is in a state of denial. The child, facing this wall of rejection and with no one to turn to, goes into a denial of her own to survive; she blocks out the painful experiences, suppressing the memories of them deeply in her subconscious.Yet the memories cannot be suppressed forever, and when the child reaches adulthood they force themselves to the surface, causing psychoses. Today, an understanding therapist would help such a patient come to terms with the fact of her victimhood as a step towards healing. There was a time, however, when incest victims faced a wall of denial, even from so-called psychoanalysts. The late great Sigmund Freud often dealt with women who revealed under analysis that they were raped by their fathers. The good Dr Freud just couldn't believe it - the societal taboo against even discussing incest was too strong. So he denied the truth of his patient's testimony and concocted a nifty theory to explain it: the famous Oedipus complex. Freud theorized that these women as little girls, driven by their infantile libidos, fantasized that they had sex with their fathers! Nowadays, incest is no longer kept 'in the closet' but is openly discussed on television programmes.No longer do victims of incest have to suffer as in the past.The age of denial has ended and truth and understanding have dawned; at least as far as incest victims are concerned. The same is not yet true of those claiming abduction by aliens, whose stories are recounted, for example, in Budd Hopkins's books, 'Missing Time and Intruders', and in Whitley Strieber's best-selling Communion and the movie based on it. Most big-media reviews of the above- mentioned works express the fervent belief that Strieber and hundreds of others all independently fantasized the same thing.So learned men keep coming up with half-baked theories to explain this mass 'fantasy', while its victims continue to suffer from their terrifying experien- ces under a cloud of official rejection. In other words, our society, in particular the intelligentsia, is locked in a state of denial when it comes to evidence of 'off-world' contact.It is not that there aren't enough facts to prove the case, it is that the facts themselves are being ignored, suppressed and ridiculed because they point to a conclusion too threatening for many to contemplate. TERMINOLOGY ----------- Getting back to semantics, ask yourself the question: How do you end the state of denial of, say, an alcoholic? The answer is, you get the person to say 'I am an alcoholic' - not a tippler, not a social drinker, but an alcoholic.Once the person accepts that key word, he or she is on the road to recovery. Ending the fog of denial regarding extraterrestrial issues may also involve nothing more than a change in terminology.'UFO' is an acronym originally coined by that boundless fount of obfuscatory language, the US Government, for the very purpose of euphemizing the evidence of alien spaceships in our atmosphere. The word 'UFO' can mean different things to different people. To some it means off-world craft, but to others it might mean 'misidentified natural phenomena'or even'hallucinations of crackpots seeking escape from their problems'. In other words, the word 'UFO' helps society evade the real issue of extraterrestrial contact, just like'tippler'and social drinker' evades the reality of alcoholism. I propose, therefore, that from now on, researchers and activists phase out the word 'UFO'. I would use 'off-world craft' instead. Perhaps one day, when we see one, we will know enough to be able to say something like 'There goes a Reticulan laboratory ship' or 'That looks like a Pleiadean surveillance drone', but until then, let's just accept the fact that what we really mean when we say ,UFO' is some form of off-world craft. If we frame the issue in the clearest, most direct terms possible, then the truth will come out much faster. GOVERNMENT DISINFORMATION ------------------------- To reiterate, our task is not to gather enough evidence to prove off-world contact, but to end the denial of the evidence that is already readily available.Proof comes from evidence, and the evidence is all round us - truckloads, boxcarloads and mountains of it.There is the UFO data collected since the late 1940s, including the unknown quantities known to exist in secret government files and warehouses; the historical and archaeological records dating back to prehistoric times; the common experience of mankind recorded in ancient religious scriptures; and what science has taught us about life in general, i.e. that life never develops in a vacuum.It is just a matter of putting two and two together.The problem is, as in George Orwell's 1984, that we are labouring under a manipulative government policy designed to make two plus two equal five! In public reports like the Air Force's 'Blue Book' and the Condon Report, the US Government says UFOs are no big deal, they are no threat to national security - just forget it.In secret, however, they are very concerned, as revealed by documents released under the Freedom of Information Act and recent books like New York Times investigative reporter Howard Blum's Out There3. Blum exposes a covert'UFO action group'in the Pentagon, and a cabal of Air Force intelligence spooks who recruited famed UFO writer William Moore to monitor the effects of hair-raising disinformation fed to a midwest UFO researcher [Paul Bennewitz] who was getting too close to secret doings at an air base.The bogus stories nearly drove the poor researcher mad'. Thus a great deal of the paranoia attributed to the UFO community can be traced to the government's policy of secrecy and deliberate disinformation.It is very much like the bad old days in the Soviet Union, where before Gorbachev's policy of glasnost the government kept information so tightly controlled that the average citizen had to make do with rumour, hearsay and speculation.In such an atmosphere of mistrust, when what the govern- ment says officially conflicts with what the people know to be true, a schism develops in the body politic itself, a kind of social schizophrenia that is harmful to the mental and social health of everyone. The original failure of nerve that got the denial syndrome rolling can probably be traced back to 1947 or thereabouts, shortly after the' Roswellsaucer' crash, when US political and military leaders decided to keep the off-world debris and bodies under a tight lid of ultra- secrecy.Through the years, further webs of deceit and obfuscation were woven to protect the original policy, and like a cancer the denial syndrome metastasized to the media, to the scientific establishment, and to society in general. Ironically, America's intelligence establishment, which has performed like Keystone Kops throughout the rest of the world, apparently succeeded all too well in this domestic disinformation scheme.One of its successes could well be the very disunity and factionalism that today plagues America's UFO community, rendering it incapable of taking effective action in countering the government's policy.America's UFO research groups [and those of the rest of the world! - Ed.] behave like prisoners in a mental gulag: they fight among themselves for scraps of information like prisoners fighting for scraps of food, while the real source of their problems is the totalitarian system that both restricts and doles out the information as it pleases. POLITICAL ACTION ---------------- This is not a problem that can be solved by further collections of UFO sightings.The denial syndrome began with a political decision; only through politics can it be brought to an end.UFO investigators should become political activists, because only a good, old-fashioned political campaign will end the government's policy of UFO secrecy.They could, for example, form 'truth squads' to follow the President around and to ask such embarrassing questions as, 'What do you know about secret UFO files, Mr President?' and 'Why the cover-up?' That's the way to get on the evening news! Abductees should do what other aggrieved groups have done with great success: form a lobbying group. Imagine bus-loads of abductees descending on Capitol Hill to lobby for an investigation of the alien abduction syndrome and an end to UFO secrecy. The fact that they are a relatively small group of victims should not deter them. The highly successful 'Mothers Against Drunk Driving' (MADD) began with only one determined lady. If, as many UFO research groups say, their goal is to ,educate' the American people, then nothing is more educational than a political crusade, both for the public and the participants, as many people learned during the Vietnam War. With more media people per capita than any other city in the world, the place to begin such an educational process is Washington, DC, and I have become involved with Operation Right to Know, an organization dedicated to ending UFO secrecy, whose first demonstration took place in Washington in March 1992 [see Editor's Note]. Furthermore, it is a matter of public record that Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford and Barry Goldwater, to name but a few politicians, either saw UFOs or expressed an interest in the subject.However, most politicians would never gain the courage to buck longstanding policy unless they felt they had a con- stituency behind them. If the government finally opens its secret data banks, then the off-world denial syndrome will quickly end and relative sanity will prevail - unless, of course, the truth is so horrible that it causes mass hysteria, which is one hypothetical explanation for the secrecy. History shows, however, that mankind has never been harmed by the truth, despite fears of bureaucrats and potentates who tried to 'protect' the public from reality. Quite the contrary, in my opinion: the greatest obstacles to progress have come from official lies, myths and efforts to keep the people in the dark.For example, the ecclesiastical authorities of the Middle Ages were so afraid of Marco Polo's true accounts of the spiendours of far Cathay that they threatened to burn him at the stake if he didn't keep quiet.They feared that if people found out that a 'pagan' civilization could in some ways outshine Christendom, there would be hell to pay. The same thing happened to those who tried to spread Copernicus' findings that the Earth revolves around the Sun, rather than vice versa. Dislodge mankind from the centre of the universe? Never! An enormous revolution occurred in the Soviet Union because the truth of democracy and human rights, which the Communist party tried to keep from the people, finally could not be contained. In all these cases, the truth-deniers came to be recognized as reactionaries who tried to keep the people in the Dark Ages. When new truth is given to mankind, it always brings about new and unforeseen advances in human progress. Even if the truth holds dangers, it is better to face the truth with our eyes open like the sentient, spiritual beings that we are. The politician or statesman who finally succeeds in breaking the off-world denial syndrome will go down in history as a greater liberator than Boris Yeltsin or Mikhail Gorbachev.It is time for us to prepare the ground for such a figure to emerge.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Article on Mutilations in Feb. GQ (Synopsis) From: joel henry <jhenry@wavefront.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:48:50 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:30:32 -0500 Subject: Article on Mutilations in Feb. GQ (Synopsis) >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:13:11 -0800 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) >Subject: Article on Mutilations in Feb. GQ (Synopsis) >A skeptical article on cattle mutilations appears in the Feb. 1997 issue of >Gentleman's Quarterly (GQ): "Operation Moo" by Jack Hitt, page 153, 9 >pages. >Subtitle: "Since 1967, 10,000 cows have inexplicable turned up dead, their >soft tissues" removed. Let's be frank - we're talking about 50 tons of >bovine genitals somehow excised from our nation's cherished farm animals. >Satanists? Aliens? Biotech research firms? The Pentagon? Our dogged >detective and resident cow-mutilation expert at long last solves the >mystery." >In summary, the author contends that cattle mutilations are the work of >natural decomposition and predators, who go first for the "soft tissues" >like the genitals. He says the media also plays a role by quoting evidence >out of context and repeating phrases like "with laser-like precision" >without any scientific evidence. Who is this Jack Hitt? What are his credentials (if any). Has he really researched and investigated the phenomena or just making armchair opinions that suit his limited facts? I suppose he doesn't much care that those mutilated cows also had no blood left in them. A passing Vampire looking for an easy meal perhaps? Give me a break. I guess there are no standards in magazine publications regarding accuracy, fact, and truth. Maybe I should send them an article debunking Mr. Hitt? Joel Henry ***************************************************** Minnesota MUFON Webmaster Minnesota MUFON Web Page= http://www.wavefront.com/~jhenry/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> Date: 14 Feb 97 12:54:54 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:05:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:24:56 -0500 >To: <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Steve, I've discussed my impressions of the creature's "genitalia" as seen in the first autopsy in another post, which I presume Errol will send out soon. Having seen both the "Short Tent Sequence" and the "Long Tent Sequence", I can say that they are the same thing. The first one is a short loop repeated several times to make it seem longer, while the second is actually a long sequence that does not repeat. But both come from the same footage. The long one, which Philip Mantle has a copy of, is only marginally better than the other one. There is apparently another version which is MUCH clearer, according to Reg Pressley and some others who saw it. As to the "pathologists" knowing what they were doing. Ray says that Jack told him the people at the crash site were collecting material and dealing with the creatures as though it was something they were used to doing and had done before. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Peter Brookesmith yet again From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:26:04 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:06:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith yet again Peter Brookesmith writes: > Date: 14 Feb 97 07:41:28 EST > From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> > To: Errol Bruce Knapp <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory > > If you're talking about Devereux's pendulum-dowsing efforts > I think I can smell the smoke and steam from New York State from here. > What is this rubbish? Why should I, or anyone, take what you say > seriously when you misrepresent like this? Misrepresent what? > I've known Paul since 1981. I've never heard him mention dowsing, > "energy lines" and earthlights in the same breath without approaching > a condition of apoplexy. Have you actually maintained *any* contact > with what he's been doing in the last two decades? This makes me > wonder if you have read anything by Persinger since his original > tract, obviously. Or have you just ignored it? Or what? What is > this crap? Dowsing is the crap. Using newsclippings as sources of scientific data is crap. Using heterogenous data and wild leaps of faith to belabour a point is crap. But I get your point now. Paul doesn't use dowsing anymore and Mike has progressed far beyond using inappropriate data to support his TST. Both use much more refined methodology to prove their cases. Right. > > inside rock core samples or Derr's ball lightning, they hardly have > > *anything* to do with supporting Persinger's TST. > Not what you said in your admirably balanced: > UFOs as Natural Phenomena. > although this was, of course, 10 years ago. Gee, I guess I must've been keeping up to date, then. :) I discussed those phenomena in these same terms and context. They were used to support the TST, so I dealt with them. > But I also observe that of the four articles cited in support of your > many works on the TST, three are by the amazing Steuart Campbell, who > having once proclaimed all UFOs ball lightning now thinks all UFOs are > mirages and (I have his communications to prove it) puts words into > mouths, or wordprocessors, that have said precisely the opposite. You > really want friends like this? Yes, I imagine Stewie has raised your hackles a bit, too. I don't necessarily share his views about mirages, but then, I don't always agree with Phil Klass, whose critical comments often lead to revealing embarrassing scenes when ufologists' follies are revealed. Besides, skeptics say I support UFO research too much and believers say I'm too skeptical or they get angry when they are finally criticized rather than lauded by fans at UFO conferences. I'm an objective ufologist. I have no friends. :) > > It is *possible* that EM effects *may* be responsible for some > > aspects of UFO-related cases. However, this has not been > > demonstrated. > If Persinger's UFO data was flawed, start again. Meanwhile there is > plenty of evidence that quakes generate weird light effects. Light was No one is disputing this. Don't bring up any more straw men. > a form of EM radiation, last time I looked. If quakes make lights, why > should less dramatic wriggles in the Earth not do the same? The only There are *many* reasons. Energy constraints. Stratigraphy. Undefined mechanisms. This is precisely the core (pun intended) of the argument. If earthquakes make lights, then minor stresses should make them, too? Nature doesn't work like that. > question is whether "unexplained" UFO reports and tectonically- > generated lights can be linked. It strikes me as unlikely in the > extreme that some natural lights would not be reported as UFOs and > remain in the unsolved tray - and there they will stay as long as > ufologists pretend natural lights don't exist or are somehow > "obviously" separate from UFOs. And this is the other argument. If we allow some lights to be made by minor stresses, then some UFOs must be such lights. But most NLs already have other explanations. (What was the Vestigia explanation, BTW?) The number of unexplained, high-reliability NLs is actually quite small. One cannot just look at a list of NLs and say, "these are earth lights." > > Perhaps with some solid research efforts and a thorough examination > > of the data and methodology, the TST *might* be refinable to a point > > where it can be acceptable as a viable theory. But not yet. > Putting aside my good intentions or poor judgement, I am NOT supporting > Persinger's TST per se, to the letter: I *am* saying it is a good idea > worth testing, even if it means starting again with different data, > which I gather has been done. And it is no good whingeing about "known I don't see where has been done at all. Persinger has been in recent years ignoring all previous criticisms of teh TST and is now implying his theory accounts for abductees' experiences. > mechanisms", still less saying long-since-irrelevant things about PD Right. "We don't do it that way anymore." > and pendulums, until the correlations between geophysical events and > lights are in place. On that, some "solid research" is forthcoming. > We may end up with something that's not the TST, but then Lavoisier > didn't get to oxygen without the phlogiston theory to kick around. Nor > did old Albert get to relativity without the ether. And we didn't get to the Hale Bopp companion spaceship without Ed Dames improving upon remote viewing. (Pat and Chuck think I'm grumpy, too.) Warm wishes from wintry Canada, Grumpy -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Fortean Times Article From: "Moira & Alain" <epona@interlog.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:35:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:10:42 -0500 Subject: Fortean Times Article FYI - Check out this article in the latest edition of Fortean Times.... http://www.forteantimes.com/artic/96/missing.html Apparently, one famous UFOLOGIST is missing. Enjoy! Moira Scott Webmistress, MUFON Ontario
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Thought-Provoking Imagery Shows Sun's Place in the From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:43:38 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:07:17 -0500 Subject: Thought-Provoking Imagery Shows Sun's Place in the Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC February 14, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Public Affairs Office Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC (Phone: 202/767-2541) RELEASE: 97-28 THOUGHT-PROVOKING IMAGERY SHOWS SUN'S PLACE IN THE GALAXY An action-packed movie assembled from images taken by an instrument aboard the NASA-European Space Agency Solar Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) has provided a remarkable galactic perspective on the Sun and its place in the Milky Way. Taken during Dec. 22-27, 1996, the series of images show the Sun drifting in front of the stars of the constellation Sagittarius, as the constant solar wind blows outward in all directions. Soon, a comet passes into view from the south and disappears behind the Sun. Finally, in an unrelated event, a plainly visible giant puff of solar gas is emitted, representing a large mass ejection in a direction away from the Earth. The remarkable images come from SOHO's visible-light coronagraph, LASCO, which is able to mask the intense rays from the Sun's surface in order to reveal the much fainter glow of the solar atmosphere, or corona. Operated with its widest field of view, LASCO's unprecedented sensitivity enabled it to see the thin ionized gas of the solar wind out to the edges of the picture, 13 million miles from the Sun's surface. Many stars are brighter than the gas, and they create the background scene. The results may alter human perceptions of the Sun in the same way that the Apollo lunar mission photographs revealed the Earth to be a beautiful but isolated planet in space, according to leader of the LASCO team, Dr. Guenter Brueckner of the Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC. "I spend my life examining the Sun, but this movie is a special thrill," Brueckner said. "For a moment, I forget the years of effort that went into creating LASCO and SOHO, and leave aside the many points of scientific importance in the images. I am happy to marvel at a new impression of our busy star that gives us life, and which affects our environment in many ways that we are only now beginning to understand." For many centuries even astrologers knew that the Sun was in Sagittarius in December and drifting towards the next zodiacal constellation, Capricorn. This was a matter of calculation only, because the Sun's own brightness prevented a direct view of the starfield. The SOHO-LASCO movie makes this elementary point of astronomy a matter of direct observation for the first time. "This is an especially dramatic sample of the data that scientists are now starting to gather routinely from SOHO," said George Withbroe, director of the Sun-Earth Connection science program at NASA Headquarters, Washington, DC. "It really helps drive home the idea that the Sun is a typical star, although we certainly have a special relationship with it." In the movie, north is at the top of the scene, which corresponds with the orientation of the Sun as seen at midday in the northern hemisphere of Earth. SOHO's progress in orbit around the Sun remains in step with the Earth's motion. SOHO travels towards the right (west) in relation to the stars during the period of observation. As a result, the Sun's position appears to shift to the left (eastwards) in front of the stars. In this mode, LASCO observes an area of the sky 32 times wider than the visible Sun itself. At the time of the observations, SOHO is looking towards the heart of the Milky Way Galaxy, which lies in the constellation of Sagittarius. The Milky Way, made by the light of billions of distant stars, forms a luminous band slanting down and to the right. Dark lanes seen in the Milky Way are real features familiar to astronomers. They are created by dust clouds in the disk of the galaxy that obscure the distant stars. A doomed comet, previously unknown, enters on the left of the image on Dec. 22. Its path curves towards the Sun and on Dec. 23 it disappears behind the occulting mask of the coronagraph. It fails to reappear on the far side of the Sun. Whether or not its trajectory took it directly towards the visible surface, the comet must have evaporated in Sun's atmosphere. It was one of a family of comets known as sungrazers, believed to be remnants of a large comet that broke up perhaps 900 years ago. Other fragments were responsible for spectacular comet apparitions in 1843, 1882 and 1965. Called Comet SOHO 6, it is one of seven sungrazers discovered so far by LASCO. Analyses of these cometary orbits, now in progress, are a prerequisite for their inclusion in the official record of comet discoveries. LASCO also provided unique pictures of Comet Hyakutake passing behind the Sun in early May 1996. Debris strewn from the tails of many comets makes a disk of dust around the Sun, in the ecliptic plane where the planets orbit. It scatters sunlight and is sometimes visible attwilight on the Earth, known as the Zodiacal Light. In the raw images obtained by LASCO, the Zodiacal Light is brighter than the solar corona. Image processing subtracted these effects precisely, to bring the solar wind and the Milky Way into plain view. Random flickers of light in the images are due to cosmic rays striking the detector. Cosmic rays are energetic particles coming from exploded stars in the Milky Way, and variations in the solar wind influence their intensity in the vicinity of SOHO and the Earth. Operating beyond the Earth's protective magnetic field, which repels many particles, SOHO is more exposed to the cosmic rays. In the largest outburst from the Sun seen in the December movie, a mass ejection causes billions of tons of gas to race out into space on the right-hand (western) side of the Sun. The origin of this event much lower in the Sun's atmosphere was evident in an expanding bubble seen in processed images from the SOHO extreme ultraviolet imager. Coronal mass ejections are the hurricanes of space weather. SOHO is ideally placed to report and even anticipate their origins in the Sun's atmosphere. Although the Sun is supposedly very quiet at present, being close to the minimum count of sunspots, LASCO has observed so many outbursts large and small -- roughly one a day -- that scientists are having to think again about how to define a coronal mass ejection. Later LASCO images, from Jan. 6, 1997, revealed a large mass ejection directed towards the Earth. The movie and still photographs related to it are available on the Internet at the Naval Research Laboratory's SOHO/LASCO home page: http://lasco-www.nrl.navy.mil/lasco.html A mission of international scientific cooperation between NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA), SOHO was launched on Dec. 2, 1995. It is situated near the L-1 Lagrangian point, where the Earth's and Sun's gravitational forces balance, some one million miles sunward from the Earth. This vantage point enables solar astronomers to use SOHO's 12 science instruments to observe the Sun continuously, with no intervening "night." Major areas of research include studies of the solar interior via helioseismology, the solar atmosphere in ultraviolet and visible light, and the solar wind and energetic particles. SOHO and its instruments are operated from the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD, for the NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. Brueckner will discuss the video and its contents in detail in a briefing at 6 p.m. EST on Saturday, Feb. 15, during the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science at the Seattle Convention Center. For more information, contact the AAAS press room at 206/624-9087. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: UFO Picture Upload From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:48:07 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:09:29 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Picture Upload >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:20:24 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: UFO Picture Upload >If anyone is interested, I started uploading to alt.paranet.ufo some >of my 1,000+ UFO photograph collection. [SNIP] > Please ask this user to refrain from posting the 1000 .jpeg's > he plans to post to a non binary group. >I thought there was an alt.binaries.pictures.ufo newsgroup but I >couldn't find it. I'll continue to upload batches of pictures until >told to stop. Hi John, The news group you are looking for is called alt.binaries.ufo.files and is fairly new - the last time I looked there was nothing UFO related in it, mainly scams. Looks like it could do with your input! Ask your Internet provider to get the conference added to their server and you will probably go a long way to avoiding a big pile of mail <g>. Best wishes, John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: UFO Picture Upload From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:48:07 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:31:12 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Picture Upload >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:20:24 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: UFO Picture Upload >If anyone is interested, I started uploading to alt.paranet.ufo some >of my 1,000+ UFO photograph collection. [SNIP] > Please ask this user to refrain from posting the 1000 .jpeg's > he plans to post to a non binary group. >I thought there was an alt.binaries.pictures.ufo newsgroup but I >couldn't find it. I'll continue to upload batches of pictures until >told to stop. Hi John, The news group you are looking for is called alt.binaries.ufo.files and is fairly new - the last time I looked there was nothing UFO related in it, mainly scams. Looks like it could do with your input! Ask your Internet provider to get the conference added to their server and you will probably go a long way to avoiding a big pile of mail <g>. Best wishes, John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Farewell to The Odyssey BBS From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:15:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:01:44 -0500 Subject: Farewell to The Odyssey BBS The Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network BBS has gone offline as of 2/14/97. It will not be returning as a dial-up FidoNet-based system. The Odyssey BBS provided public mail hub services to FidoNet and private mail hub services to ParaNet, MUFONet, and the OFSRN. OFSRN has been relocated to an Internet Web site. ParaNet closed up shop as a FidoNet dial-up service many months ago. The Odyssey BBS also provided conference facilities using the FidoNet backboned (worldwide) message conference named "BAMA". This message conference has been donated to MUFONet and will be entirely owned and administered by Jym Fox. It is anticipated that as MUFONet evolves from a private network to a openly available service this new conference will be the focal point of activity. Lastly, the Odyssey BBS also provided free access to a large UFO (and related) file collection. This free access is now available via an Internet-based Odyssey File Request Processor. In the not too terribly distant future the OFSRN BBS will return as a ftp-able and telnet-able free service on the Internet. "Life is its own journey, presupposes its own change and movement, and one tries to arrest them at one's own eternal peril." - Laurens Van der Post, _Venture to the Interior (1951). "The more things change, the more they remain the same." - Alphonse Karr, 1849. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Looking for ET? From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:00:41 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:03:17 -0500 Subject: Looking for ET? By MATT CRENSON AP Science Editor SEATTLE (AP) -- If 21st-century explorers are to find life on other planets, they'll probably have to dig. Experts in the field of extraterrestrial life said at a scientific meeting Thursday that several places in the solar system, though barren on the surface, have the potential to harbor underground life. Mars could have underground hot springs that never see the light of day, inhabited by microbes similar to the ones that live in the boiling pools of Yellowstone and other geothermal areas, said John Delaney of the University of Washington in Seattle. And Europa, a moon of Jupiter about the size of Earth's moon, could hide an inhabited ocean beneath its icy shell. There have even been some recent suggestions that Venus could harbor life. Since NASA's announcement last year that a 4.5 billion year-old meteorite from Mars contains traces of life, serious scientists have been thinking about other planets as never before. And one of the things they've realized is that the sunlight-based life on Earth's surface may be the exception rather than the rule. ``We are the anomaly, and the stuff down there is what is common,'' said Thomas Gold, an astronomer from Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y., whose ideas about deep subterranean life, once rejected by most scientists, have recently gained wide acceptance. He and his colleagues speculated on the possibilities of extraterrestrial life in Seattle at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Two observations made about 20 years ago support the idea that underground life may exist elsewhere in the solar system, Delaney said. First, NASA's Voyager spacecraft found that volcanic activity is much more common in the solar system than had been supposed. And second, oceanographers discovered primitive microbes living in hydrothermal vents on the ocean floor that are fed from deep within the Earth. Nobody really put those two things together until August, when NASA researchers found possible signs of ancient microbial activity in the Martian meteorite. ``I don't know if they're right, but if they are it changes everything,'' Delaney said. ``They have opened a valid dialogue about life on other planets. For a long time that's not something that respectable scientists did.'' Liquid water could be present more than a mile beneath the Martian surface, said Michael Carr of the U.S. Geological Survey. And on Earth, scientists have found life just about every place they've found liquid water -- even miles underground. Every time they study a volcanic eruption along one of the midocean ridges that crisscross Earth like the strings on a baseball, Delaney said, oceanographers find thriving colonies of bacteria. And those bacteria are among the most primitive known, suggesting that they may have been some of the earliest life forms on the planet. That has led some researchers to propose that volcanically heated water circulating through the sea floor is the perfect place for life to begin, and perhaps to thrive for millennia unperturbed by climate fluctuations, asteroid impacts and other environmental changes. ``We have become so enamored with the idea that life is on the surface,'' Gold said. ``There is an enormous amount of microbial material in the ground.'' AP-NY-02-14-97 0333EST Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:36:03 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:04:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: 14 Feb 97 12:54:54 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos [snippage] > There is apparently another version which is MUCH clearer, according > to Reg Pressley and some others who saw it. I have heard the claims of the "crystal clear" version of the other footage and I don't really doubt them. It _does_ make one wonder why Ray would sell the _inferior_ footage to broadcasters, though. > As to the "pathologists" knowing what they were doing. Ray says that Jack > told > him the people at the crash site were collecting material and dealing with > the > creatures as though it was something they were used to doing and had done > before. Ray says that Jack says. That is getting real old. Was this question addressed in the questions we have not seen of the cameraman's video? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 BWW Media Alert 970214 From: Bufoatwork@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:22:08 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 10:05:37 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970214 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) February 14, 1997 SUPER FLASH: I'm totally out of time. Formatting is going out the window. Sorry. Well, I have a pretty good excuse for being later than I like this week. Not only was it my birthday and Valentine's Day, I literally fell asleep at the computer last night working on it! Oh, I didn't wake up snoring on the keyboard, but it was like highway hypnosis...or should I say "Information Superhighway Hypnosis"? I was on the web, and suddenly "snapped to". I took it as a hint... Anyway, it's one of the slowest weeks in the electonic media in awhile. However, there is something exciting! I'll be on THE EDGE OF REALITY, a syndicated show out of New York. It's a three-hour show on the paranormal, with a quite incredible line-up. It's on from 5:00 pm to 8:00 pm Pacific (remember, times here are generally listed in Pacific), Saturday nights. Lee Spiegel, who has been in the field for twenty years, is the Executive Producer. I'll be on with Gene Lipson, MD, talking about OPUS**, although I'll do some of my other stuff as well. It's particularly thrilling to me, because it is on a major station in my home market: KSFO 560 AM in San Francisco...so my local friends and family can hear it. You'll find more in the listing below for Saturday, including a list of affiliates. One more thing, before we get into the listings. On Monday or Tuesday, STRANGE UNIVERSE is scheduled to run the OPUS toll-free number as a supplement to the story they ran on OPUS previously. You'll also find the number at the bottom of this post, but you can still watch :) . PERIODICALS FORTEAN TIMES #95, FEBRUARY 1997. This is quite an incredible magazine, and you ought to be able to get it in a big bookstore (like a BORDERS or one with a university market). This issue, feature articles include: DO YOU SEE THE LIGHT, BROTHER? by Xan Phillips, focussing on a Tennessee church where giant fiery crosses have been seen; BONES OF CONTENTION, by Editor Bob Rickard, about American scientists vs. Amerinds (I assume some people are both) over skeleton ownership; POLICE STATE OF MIND by David Guyatt, about secret government mind control efforts. In the regular columns, there are the typically atypical topics. Just skipping about, there's a story on the face on Mars being Elvis, and that the hair on the Hitler figure in Madame Tussaud's has been growing. There's a nice piece on Oliver, who may or may not be a chimpanzee. Longer pieces include: Loren Coleman on the rise of cryptozoology (the search for "hidden animals", like bigfoot, etc.); an amazing article by Karl Shuker, arguing that there may be a colony of tuataras (three-eyed, lizard-like survivors from the days of the dinosaur) in Wales; Dennis Stacy, Editor of the MUTUAL UFO NETWORK JOURNAL on the etymology of UFO; David Langford about Lovecraft; and all the usual goodies. Check their website at http://www.forteantimes.com for more info. If you contact 'em, please tell 'em I sent you. FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see the excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. Disney is still running CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND in heavy rotation, this week on Monday at 7 pm and Tuesday at 3:40 am. Maintaining its commitment to high quality ufology, Disney runs THE CAT FROM OUTER SPACE on Monday at 10:50 pm. Haven't seen MAGIC IN THE WATER yet, with Mark Harmon starring with a lake monster? See Showtime2 on Saturday at 2:30 pm and Sunday at 1:40 am. CARRIE is showing on TNT on Tuesday at 8:00 pm. The Movie Channel has REPTILICUS, which gives a whole new meaning to the term "eating Danish" on Saturday at 7:35 pm. THE EQUALIZER on A&E on Thursday at 10 am and 4 pm hinges on a psychic who sees victims of a serial killer...and she's one of them. MATLOCK defends a psychic accused of killer her boyfriend because she foresaw his death on TBS Friday 2/21 at 9:05 am. Speaking of psychics, Nickledeon runs the episode of TAXI where Rev. Jim's psychic powers are used by a tv programmer on Monday at 11:00 pm and Tuesday at 4:00 am. AMC is running a bunch of "good" science fiction this week, including THE LAND UNKNOWN (a Lost World inspired film, featuring such dangers as the attack of the plasticosauruses...that's not my term, I read it in a fanzine years ago, but I like it.) One time it runs is Thursday at 6:30 pm. At the other end of the scale, they are running the original INVASION OF THE BODYSNATCHERS at 7 pm on Wednesday. Finally, my fictional pick of the week: STRANGE VISITOR TO HAZZARD, wherein Felix Silla (Cousin Itt from THE ADDAMS FAMILY tv show) portrays an alien on THE DUKES OF HAZZARD on Tuesday at 4:00 pm and 9:00 pm. I don't think it's the best, but it certainly stands out to me. RADIO AND TELEVISION FLASH! 10:00 pm, tonight, Friday, KTVU in Oakland, California, is doing a piece on comet Hale-Bopp and the rumors surrounding the supposed "companion" to it. SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE: Check out the website for stations and guest info http://www.endoftheline.com). The show runs on M-F from 6:00 to 9:00 pm Pacific. It can also be heard over the Internet, which is kind of cool, although it sounds like it's underwater (at least on my computer). If you want details of how to hear it that way, ask me. Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: --week of 2/9: angel yells "Timber", sort of; woman is rescued from assailant by blue figure --week of 2/16: spinal disease cured by back rub; folks miss a flight, and the plane crashes (reminds me of the great line from the Archbishop, who was told about a fellow's aunt who missed a train and the train derailed and everyone was killed. The Archbishop was asked if he thought it was an example of divine providence. He replied, "Don't know. Didn't know your aunt." PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --week of 2/10: --week of 2/17: rodents run wild after a high-tech company comes to town; a houseplant becomes a monster (heard a great line on Dean Edell recently: "I am not a vegetarian because I love animals. I am a vegetarian because I hate vegetables." :) ) Saturday, February 15 LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: no details available. 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: ANCIENT WISDOM: includes the crystal skull, an ancient battery,etc. 5:00 PM, SYNDICATED RADIO, THE EDGE OF REALITY: This is the one Bufo will be on. Other guests this night include Brad Steiger, Bruce Maccabee (sorry about the spelling), and Ed Walters. Stations include: San Francisco, CA KSFO-AM 560 Cleveland, OH WHBC-AM 1480 Tampa, FL WFLA-AM 970 Salt Lake City, UT KSUB-AM 590 Albuquerque, NM KKOB-AM 770 Jacksonville, FL WJGR-AM 1320 Fresno, CA KFRE-AM 940 Austin, TX KLBJ-AM 590 Wichita, KS KFH-AM 1330 Altoona, PA WRTA-AM 1240 Santa Barbara, CA KTMS-AM 1250 Eugene, OR KAHY-FM 94.1 Columbus, GA WJHO-AM 1400 Bangor, ME WSNV-FM 103.9 Call-in number is 1-800-825-5188 7:00 PM, SYNDICATED RADIO, THE EDGE OF REALITY: Bufo appears with Dr. Gene Lipson of OPUS.** Sunday, February 16 LOCAL RADIO, 1220 CHSC AM in St. Catharines, Ontario (and available via Internet), THE "X" SHOW: no details available. Check the website at www.xchonicles.com for more info (like airtime...) SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS #4050: a story from Zimbabwe; psychic healing; exorcisms in England; fake out-of-body experiences; ghostly peeping Tom 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS #4050: a story from Zimbabwe; psychic healing; exorcisms in England; fake out-of-body experiences; ghostly peeping Tom 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MYSTERY CATS (specifically covers the thylacine, which isn't a cat but a marsupial that looks (or looked) like a dog. It is considered extinct, but reports still come in of people seeing it.) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS #4050: a story from Zimbabwe; psychic healing; exorcisms in England; fake out-of-body experiences; ghostly peeping Tom Monday, February 10 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE ****: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES ( Tuesday, February 18 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES ( 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE Wednesday, February 12 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) BRITISH TV NOTE: FORTEAN TV on Channel 4 (it comes on before ER) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES & MIRACLES*# 7:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS #5055 11:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5055 Thursday, February 18 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (# 7:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED: CRYSTAL SKULL (also on ACC this week) Friday, February 21 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES _____________ *# MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES this week on SCI-FI at 10:00 am...none Monday, then in sequence from Tuesday starting with #27. Here they are, straight from the website (SCI-FI, if you want me to stop reporting you for doing this, let me know. I'm just flat out of time...I have called you to find out if I could get your permission, and e-mailed, but I think it's important I get the topics in here. Helps you as well.) Ep #27: "Roadside Miracle": Is love stronger than death? A young mother returns from the grave to save her dying child. "UFO Encounters": Are these strange visitors trying to make contact? "Black Dahlia": A mysterious Hollywood murder of a young woman in 1946. In vestigation into her gruesome murder led to the discovery of her bizarre lifestyle. Ep #28: "Sporting Chance": Another look at everyday miracles - those who conquer severe mental and physical handicaps in the name of victory. "Pendle Witches": The most famous place in Britain for witches, historical and present times. Witchcraft is still alive a nd well, and very much practiced in this town. "Hypnotism": Investigating the powers of hypnosis, and uncovering how physical manifestations can occur by hypnotic suggestion. Ep #29: "Jack The Ripper": A look into the mystery of this legendary serial killer. "Communion": Whitley Streiber, well known author of "Communion" and "Breakthrough" - the "Next Step" tells us of his abduction and experiences with these alien beings. "Curse of t he Kennedy's": Were the tragedies that plagued the Kennedy family the result of an old gypsy curse? Ep #30: "Miracle Healing": Healing the body, through the power of faith. "The Evil Influence": Aleister Crowley was called "the most evil man in the world". His influence was malign - sometimes lethal - on the people around him. "Spirits In Our Midst": On a terri tory once theirs, ghosts of Native Indians linger on as reminders of the past. This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). Alternatively, you can mail your check or money order to: Greenleaf Publications P.O. Box 8152 Murfreesboro, TN 37133 U.S.A. Add $4 for the first item and $1 for each additional item for S&H in the U.S. My foreign correspondents should add $5 for the first one, $1.50 for each additional (plus $3 if shipped by air). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- ****STRANGE UNIVERSE THIS WEEK: Modnay, they are supposed to have Bill Hamilton on Undergorund Bases and using psychics to find criminals , Tuesday, Global UFO Report and alien abduction insurance, Wednesday, UFO reports from pilots, Thursday, Lee Shargel and "communication with aliens", and Friday, an "African kingdom in South Carolina" **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Lee/Leon Shargel Research From: "SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC." <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 06:25:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:08:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Lee/Leon Shargel Research ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: markcommerford@juno.com To: skywatch@phoenix.net Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:21:23 PST Subject: Re: Skywatch: Lee (Leon) Shargel Research - a FRAUD! My comments below - Mark Commerford On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:40:58 -0700 "SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC." posted: >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >From: skywatch@wic.net (SKYWATCH) >To: skywatch@phoenix.net >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 18:01:13 -0700 (MST) >To: Tim Edwards >Subject: Lee (Leon) Shargel Research - Fraud Do not confuse Lee Shargel with Leon Shargel. See comments below. Leon is a different person entirely. >>From: noah@webex.net >>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:59:44 -0500 >>To: Tim Edwards >>dona@totcon.com Subject: Lee (Leon) Shargel Research - Fraud X-UIDL: >>0e995ee647ca6717447a1e17860ec8f5 >> >>Tim, >> >>In my research on Lee(short for Leon) Shargel, I have found >> >>the following: >> >>Lee Shargel claims he wrote two books published by TOR publications, >> >>"Voice in the Mirror", 4/96, Science Fiction, and "Chulos", 2/93, >> >>Science Fiction. I called TOR PUBLICATIONS (1-800-221-7945 Ext. 838), >> >>they have no such books on record nor a Lee Shargel! Oughten House Publications did publish 'Voice in The Mirror' by Lee Shargel. Copies were sold at the Laughlin International UFO Congress. - Mark Commerford >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Lee Shargel claims he wrote "Shakespeare & Socrates" >>1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996 (series), Juvenile Fiction, published >>by Veerhoven. There is no record of Veerhoven publications.!!!!!!!!! I checked a computerized listing of books in print and there is no listing of such a book. - Mark Commerford >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Lee Shargel's Biography is listed on the net (I found through Yahoo). >>The address is: http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=shargel&hc=0&hs=0. >>I clicked for the biography, and gee - to my surprise, the following >>came up - - - "Http/1.0 404 not found"! His bio and other related information were at the url which shows up under various search engines. However, shortly after Art Bell listed a link to it, it was removed. - Mark Commerford >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>The only thing I found that he has published are two Texbooks for >>courses on Pharmacy. They are listed at web site as follows: >>http://www.cpb.uokhsc.edu/common/anonymous/pk/topic006.html. Do not give Lee Shargel credit for the works of Leon D. Shargel. These are two different people. Leon shargel has a Ph.D. in pharmacology. 'Voice in The mirror', appears to be the only book by Lee Shargel. - Mark Commerford >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Lee Shargel says he is a winner of national playwrights award for "We >>Can Make A Difference". >>I have found no such award for Lee Shargle and no such play. >>------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>Research by Bob Ruhoy noah@webex.net I have done a lot of research into Lee Shargel and his claims. I intend to publish an article about this in the next issue of the OPUS (Organization for Paranormal Understanding & Support) newsletter. For information about OPUS, see it's website at: http://mindspring.com/~topus/ - Mark Commerford ******UFO Sky Searchers International******* ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@phoenix.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: UFO Picture Upload From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:18:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:28:40 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Picture Upload >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:20:24 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> >Subject: UFO Picture Upload >If anyone is interested, I started uploading to alt.paranet.ufo some of my >1,000+ UFO photograph collection. >But I also received these two e-mails today: ....snip.... > It is considered bad newsgroup manners to post .jpg's in a group >that is > not a .jpg group. Especially since you say you don't even read this NG. > ==================================================== ....snip.... > Please ask this user to refrain from posting the 1000 .jpeg's he plans > to post to a non binary group. >I thought there was an alt.binaries.pictures.ufo newsgroup but I couldn't >find it. I'll continue to upload batches of pictures until told to stop. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: John, I respect much of what you write, but here I tend to agree with the readers of alt.paranet.ufo. Why not set up another newsgroup (alt.paranet.ufo.pics) just dedicated to pictures? Then you could make references to any of them in discussions on the alt.paranet.ufo group and people could click on the next group down and take a look for themselves. That way, those interested in keeping the group dialogue oriented can be satisfied and your needs, and the needs of those wanting to look at those pictures can likewise be met. (and everyone stays friends.) Sincerely, Jerry Cohen E-mail: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Feb 97 11:46:11 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:29:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:36:03 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Rebecca, I have no idea why Ray would sell the bad video and keep the good. That a good one exists is, of course, hearsay. >Ray says that Jack says. That is getting real old. Was this question >addressed in the questions we have not seen of the cameraman's video? I'm not happy dealing with second hand info either, but it is all I have on most of this. Until and unless I can interview Jack directly all I can do is pass on Ray's comments attributed to Jack. No, that question is not addressed in the video I saw. No important questions were asked. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:18:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:27:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith on Tectonic Strain Theory Hello again Peter, After following this thread into eternity, it seems to me that your quote below regarding Persinger's hypotheses and work is basically what most UFO researchers were really looking to hear you say all along. I felt this was made quite clear early on. >Date: 13 Feb 97 20:33:32 EST >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate Re: Peter Brookesmith again ... >And I'm sufficiently impressed by what I know is "in the pipeline" >to think *some* UFOs are caused by *some* kind of natural light >phenomenon *somehow* caused by tectonic events (or *some* of them), >at least probably. And, as every academic paper thirsting after >more grant dollars ever said, "more research is needed". - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Peter, the word _some_ is _extremely_ important here. Now, if Persinger would make this same statement clear in his "promotion" of those hypotheses, researchers would certainly feel a lot more comfortable with same. Not once from all the dialog did I get the feeling that Persinger was being attacked by the researchers involved but rather his methods of proof and methodology. Thank you for realizing this and finally making your statement. There is a broad knowledge base out here already which must be taken into full account before anyone's "theories" can be finalized as "solutions" to any portion of the full spectrum of observable UFO phenomena. Researchers want more serious-minded scientists involved in this endeavor, but those scientists who do apply for this presently thankless task should not expect quick, easy solutions. Nothing will ever replace taking UFO claims on a case by case basis and seeing where each lies in regards to all solid facts and tenable hypotheses. This is what is urgently needed in Ufology today. Folks, how about getting off this and getting on with the really important task of doing just that? Respectfully, Jerry Cohen E-mail: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 UFO UpDate 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel.....) From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:08:15 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:26:07 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel.....) Graham Birdsall wrote: > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:30:16 -0500 > From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: 11 Feb 97 15:02:42 EST > >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel Real - Or a Real Problem? > [SNIP] > As for Bob Dean? > He's a warm and kind-hearted individual whose allegations >about his time spent at SHAPE (Supreme Headquarters Allied >Powers Europe) in Paris, > France, are legendary. There are those who question >his claims to have seen >a COSMIC TOP SECRET briefing document which he alleged >contained a wealth of UFO information within, not least >former Admiral of the Fleet, the Lord > Hill Norton, and best-selling British author and >UFO researcher, Timothy Good. > Interestingly, it's now a matter of public record that >there was such a classification called COSMIC TOP SECRET >around in the 60s and still exists >today, though the few ex-servicemen people who confirmed >its existence were not privy to the data within. I >personally spoke with two ex-Royal >Navy submariners who told me COSMIC TOP SECRET was used >in their radio-ops room. > The point I'm making is that Bob Dean's critics insisted >at the outset that there was no such classification >- Timothy Good, although still firmly >convinced that Dean's allegations should be taken with >the proverbial pinch >of salt, now acknowledges the classification does exist. > As with all claims uttered by former military and >intelligence personell >about UFOs, I would simply say they must be treated >with a great deal of cautious scepticism - not least >because this group of people more than any >other, have sworn allegiance to their sovereign or >head of state. I've no doubt that some of these are >engaged full-time in the UFO subject; some to >monitor civilian activities and others to spread >disinformation as and when required to do so. [SNIP] Concerning NATO TOP SECRET Information (ie COSMIC TOP SECRET) the Department of Defense Directive 5100.55 "United States Security Authority for North Atlantic Treaty Organization Affairs, April 21, 1982," covers this area. I believe it is classified confidential. However, the information needed here appears in unclassified form in AR 380-5, Department of the Army Information Security Program. A good part of this regulation is available on line. In Appendix A, Equivalent Foreign and International Pact Organization Security Classifications under NATO we find: US Classification = NATO Classification TOP SECRET COSMIC TOP SECRET SECRET NATO SECRET CONFIDENTIAL NATO CONFIDENTIAL ------- NATO RESTRICTED Quote: "ATOMAL" information is an exlusive designation used by NATO to identify "Restricted Data" or "Formerly Restricted Data" information released by the U. S. Government to NATO. Unquote. NATO information originates with NATO itself or one of the other NATO countries. Generally one the information lease the originating country and is passed to another NATO country it becomes NATO classified. Strictly speaking there is no such thing as a COSMIC TOP SECRET clearance. If one has the equivalent US clearance with an up to date security investigation, local checks, has been briefed as acknowledged on Department of the Army Form 2543, Briefing/Rebriefing/Debriefing Certificate, and has authorization for access from the Commander than one can view COSMIC TOP SECRET information--as with everything classified on a need to know basis. The security clearance certificate for the individual is NOT annotated to indicate COSMIC. Nowhere in the personnel records is this information recorded. Nowhere on any government employment form is there a place to show COSMIC TOP SECRET access. However, there are places on government employment form to show security clearances granted. When one leaves the organization on change of assignment the NATO access terminates. The clearance (CONFIDENTIAL/SECRET/TOP SECRET) continues to be shown on the security clearance certificate. If the next organization needs one to have NATO access, the process above is repeated. The access roster published periodically by the responsible organization generally shows name, rank, Social Security Number, clearance, and access. So one might have a TOP SECRET clearance and access of SECRET, or one might have a SECRET clearance with S/NS (SECRET/NATO SECRET) access or one might have a TOP SECRET clearance with CTSA (COSMIC/TOP SECRET/ATOMAL) access. Bob Dean has made a second career of having once COSMIC TOP SECRET access. That and a dollar will get you cup of coffee. In my 25+ years in the military I have never heard anyone who has left a European assignment say he has a COSMIC TOP SECRET clearance. Seems funny to me that the above information has been out in the open all this time. I think that says volumes about current UFO research. I have read a lot of speculations on COSMIC TOP SECRET--there is even a video by that title. I have not read very much on people trying to check on it. Seems to me some people are just trying to take the marks. There is nothing special about COSMIC TOP SECRET material. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 SOM1-01 (unedited) From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 17:52:02 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:32:39 -0500 Subject: SOM1-01 (unedited) Updates-- I'd like my own copy of the SOM1-01 Manual (MJ-12). Friedman's "TOP SECRET/MAJIC" says that it includes drawings and diagrams of various saucer types, etc. I'd very much like to see these and perhaps compare their style to other renderings used in the period (1954) that the SOM1-01 was supposedly drafted. Does anyone have a copy of this thing as originally mailed to Don Berliner? Thanks a lot, **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Ramblings, Warning and Message From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 13:15:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:31:13 -0500 Subject: Ramblings, Warning and Message It was with fervent interest that I read Hal Mckenzie's words regarding Operation Right to Know. His, is an opinion that I concur wholeheartedly with and applaud him for it. It sparked me to write this long-winded post. Our culture and; dependant on locale; relative freedom, allow us the ability to say what we think about most things. Our limitations are those of social mor=E9s that cause us to agree with, or otherwise discount, ideas and other things about which we learn. With all things there will be "believers" and "detractors." These words of course, we believe, get replaced with "ufologists" and "skeptics" when it comes to UFOlogy. It is akin to Good and Evil, and PLEASE do NOT infer that I'm attributing either group as being Good or Evil. What I'm attempting to say here is that there must be a balance. Imagine ufology without "skeptics" or imagine it without "ufologists." In either case, it would CEASE to exist. The problem with our particular area is that most of us believe there are only TWO groups. "believers" =3D "ufologists" and "skeptics" =3D "non-believers". The reality however, is that there are THREE groups. Group ONE I will refer to as: "Those who believe ALL UFO's are craft from another world and ANYTHING remotely discounting this is a cover-up." Group TWO are: "Those who believe that a healthy STUDY of the phenomena, at all times, skeptical, will be beneficial to all human beings and will prove the truth, one way or the other." Group THREE are: "Those who believe there are no such thing as UFOs from other worlds and do ALL in their power to dis-prove and/or deny." The problems are apparent when you're not aware of WHO is in which group. I personally believe I fall into the group TWO category and try to maintain an attitude of HEALTHY belief that we're not alone, tempered with skepticism . It would be easy if everyone wore a Black, White or Grey hat.....<laughing>......that way we'd KNOW who was who and wouldn't get confused thinking that someone is in group TWO, finding out later they are really in group ONE or group THREE. A simple acid test can determine which group you're in. If you believe that ALL accounts, photographic or videographic evidence of UFOs provided by people are FACT and that anyone who says or shows contrary evidence is part of an elaborate government cover-up -- Welcome to group= ONE. If you believe that ALL the photographs, videotape and testimony of individuals is all fictional garbage or that the government is being forthright and would NEVER keep information from the people -- Welcome to group THREE. =20 What I would like is if everyone could identify which group they are in, the rest of us in group TWO would be able to weigh their comments and evidence with a healthy, new level of knowledge. Now, anyone who views this can readily laugh off the concept that there could be anybody who would be in Group ONE or Group THREE. "I mean, we can't POSSIBLY have people in either of those groups," we say. This in itself is a form of denial. There are always EXTREMISTS in any group and the more intelligent ones will be the LEAST vocal regarding EXTREMIST policies. They will instead use their knowledge and charm to confuse the issues. These are the ones to be wary of, and the ones that can cause most harm. Their motives range from GREED to IT's MY JOB. =20 To illustrate this concept, simply look at some other groups that are cloaking themselves in "GOOD" things. SOME of the Racist groups are no longer talking about "Superiority of the White Race." Instead, they are discussing how we should be proud of our heritage and celebrate our cultural ways, with minimal usage of WHITE as a word in their teachings. Initially, everything looks good. However, like a thin veneer of quality wood, a slight scratching will show the cheap wood underneath. Now, the underlying reason I decided to write this up was simply to say to others in Group TWO to continue to keep going and not get confused, dis-heartened or even angry. We WILL eventually get to the bottom of the UFOlogy issues and discover what is FACT and what is FICTION. We need people to ask the questions, to learn what to believe and not believe and to study the issues so they can make intelligent decisions about new knowledge as it comes to light. =20 To everyone that is healthily involved in group TWO right now, I applaud your efforts and urge you to continue. To ALL, I say be wary of group ONE or group THREE efforts and always be aware that they are there. To quote an oft-mentioned Television Series: "The truth IS out there!" 'Nuff said, Dave (Furry) Furlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Lee Shargel Stuff From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:50:42 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:33:55 -0500 Subject: Lee Shargel Stuff I was cruising around on my hard drive and located this file. I don't know if this has been posted to the list before. But this _was_ the text from a Lee Shargel page which _was_ located at: http://users1.ee.net/pmason/LEE_bio.html Lee Shargel began his professional writing career in 1988 with the publishing of his first work of science fiction (*Telecommuting In Cyberspace, Predictions: Sci-Fi*) while still employed as a materials scientist working on a variety of projects for NASA. Realizing the importance, and necessity of honing his writing craft, he returned to college studying under nationally known author, Robert W. Walker, (*Fatal Instinct*, *Primal Instinct*, etc.), who has become a close personal friend and confidant. Lee had a great source for his sci-fi, working on the Top Secret, SRBOC, TDRS and Hubble Space Telescope projects for NASA and the DOD. He left full-time service in 1991 to pursue his writing full-time. He maintains his previous ties with colleagues at NASA, LIGO, FDA and JPL as a part-time consultant. Lee Shargel has since written, *Take Charge America: The Miracle of Empowerment*, a guide to the fulfillment of Total Quality Management, and the compelling non-fiction book entitled, *Fall From The Watchtower*. He is also the primary sci-fi contributing author for the commemorative book, *100 Years of Moving Pictures*, the forthcoming science fiction novels, *Voice In The Mirror*, *Rockworld* and *Chulos* (in the Chulosian series) and *Welcome to Hardrock: Penal Colony Gamma 5*. Lee has numerous magazine contributions to: *The Edge - Science Fiction*, *Haunted Skies - Science Fiction*, *Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction magazine*, *Changes and Predictions* to name a few. Lee has also written two screenplays for Impromptu/HBO productions (*Tales From The Crypt*), and two additional screenplays, *W.E.M.A.* and *FILBY* which are currently being considered for production. He is the recipient of the National Board of Educators: Playwrights Award, for his children's production of, *We Can Make A Difference*, and is also the author of, *Shakespeare and Socrates*, a delightful, illustrated children's book series currently in production in Europe. Lee is an avid lecturer and scientific researcher into the UFO phenomenon. Lee Shargel is a graduate of Northeastern University and holds degrees in Industrial Engineering, Robotics and a Doctorate in Materials Science. He has worked for NASA as an engineer/scientist with Top Secret clearance on the TDRS, Hubble Telescope, and SRBOC projects. He is still active as a consultant in arenas of emerging technology. He makes his home in Florida. Lee is currently under contract to Oughten House Publishing of Livermore, CA.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 15 Devereux-Rutkowski: EL/TST Debate From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 19:50:23 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:35:14 -0500 Subject: Devereux-Rutkowski: EL/TST Debate I feel Chris Rutowski (13 Feb 1997) did not adequately respond to my points (12 Feb 1997) regarding bringing the TST and earth lights debate back to basic issues and onto a broader front. Please let me review some of the issues again, at the same time commenting on Chris's statements, some of which were factually incorrect, and adding a little more information as appropriate. 1. In response to my concern at the consistent criticism of Persinger, Chris says: QUOTE: "Perhaps it's because we have pointed out problems in the theory so often, we are disappointed that its proponents have not taken any constructive criticism to heart."UNQUOTE. Ahhh... if only it was, truly, constructive criticism. In any case, Chris, you are so far out of the loop on current earth lights research you are not in a position to comment on what researchers are or are not doing. From what I can gather, you are conceptually still at around 1983! For instance, you were not present at the 1994 Hessdalen conference where earth lights researchers, plasma physicists and other involved people from all over the world gathered. That meeting of minds provided a quantum leap in both literal and metaphorical terms. You just don't know what work is taking place right now. I see no constructive thinking from you on the challenging problems before us; you seem to just be 'knocking' those who are making an effort. 2. I pointed out that the TST seems to be being mixed up with the whole issue of earth lights. Whether the TST is true or false, right or wrong, or part right/part wrong, I made the point that either way that would still leave the issue anomalous light phenomena, aka 'earth lights' (EL), before us. TST does *not* equal 'earth lights phenomena', it is just one attempt at finding an understanding of them. Could we therefore make this crucial distinction? Chris responded, QUOTE: "In a word, no. . .. The TST is a theory which purports to explain observations of luminous phenomena as being related to seismic stress and EM fields. Earth lights, as you have defined them, are luminous phenomena associated with energies emanating from the earth, possibly related to piezoelectricity and other geophysical/geological mechanisms. Since neither theory is well-supported. . ." etc UNQUOTE The association of light phenomena (LP) with tectonic factors has various streams of evidence, going back to at least Charles Fort. The TST is just one strand - though rather a good one in my opinion. It is an evolving theory (theory as opposed to hypothesis, incidentally, in that it can include mathematical expression this has nothing to do with whether one accepts the data the math is predicated on or otherwise). I myself think that it may have some of its parameters wrong (unlike Chris, I think Persinger's 6-month lag, for example, may be too *conservative* - but, there you go, everyone to their opinion). My colleagues and I threw out piezo-electricity as a likely major mechanism (it might play a support role in certain circumstances) in a paper in *New Scientist* in 1983, and Persinger has likewise minimised the liklihood of p-e as a major player. (I love the way Chris always avoids giving his audience these important tidbits of information!) Issues such as the geographical distance from an epicentre one could reasonably include LP is another recurring bone of contention, it seems. Well, in the days leading up to the 3.8 Richter event in Cornwall on 10 November, 1996, as one tiny example, LP were unquestionably being seen and reported 100 miles of what became the epicentre. The distance might be greater than that, but all the data is not yet in. So there is nothing inherently unacceptable in including LP reported at a distance from an epicentre. Tectonic mechanics are indeed complex and poorly understood -- it is a limitation we labour within. If this were not so, we'd have perfect earthquake prediction by now, wouldn't we? And we wouldn't be having this debate about EL, TST or whatnot. Chris, *we all accept that there are as yet no definitive answers, and that some ideas might be wrong*. That is the challenge and function of research - surely you can see that? If you can't, I trust others can. But in any case the TST is a *theory* not a proof. Persinger, like anyone toiling with a theory has to be emotionally committed to it in order to maintain the energy to keep the thankless task of the research it demands ongoing. But he has certainly modified as evidence becomes available. I thought his overview of the then current situation with LP, EL, TST in the *Journal of UFO Studies* (vol.2, 1990) to be masterly. Clear, balanced, polite, sane and reasonable. (And this habit of yours, Chris, in pulling in so-and-so who says Persinger is no good, a bad scientist, etc. is somewhat offputting. You can always pull in someone to attack another. This isn't evidence or rational debate.) But what I was really trying to get at was why do you incessantly go after Persinger, when there are other aspects of EL research you could be discussing? And yet you never do. Why not look at John Derr's work? Surely Derr, a leading USGS geologist and Head of the Global Seismic Network, isn't unscientific and a con-man too? Derr has scored some predictive successes, and has opened some interesting correlations between LP reports and water injection and pressure events. There is the work in Wales of both geological and seismic correlations with reported LP by my colleagues and I - as described and updated in my *Earth Lights Revelation* (1989, 1990), which I trust you have read? There is the interesting report by Ouellet at Quebec University concerning the extensive observations of LP in the Lake St John/Saguenay area being monitored by a seismographic network and the 1988/89 seismic events there. There is the intriguing work being done on photographs of LP trails recorded in Hessdalen photographs identifying a 7hz oscillation akin to similar plasma trail oscillations recorded in laboratory plasma experiments. There is the 'vorton' hypothesis being developed by David Fryberger at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, and the 'zero point field' hypothesis being developed by Hal Puthoff at Austin. And so on - there is the new wave of field work (see below) by Erling Strand in Norway, the ICRL work by myself in association with Strand and Puthoff and Fryberger and others, and the studies by Ohtsuki. The TST is not the be-all and end-all with regards to EL research, enquiry and thinking. In short, my plea was to open out the discussion instead of endlessly focusing on one particular target. And let it be a creative *discussion* , with ideas being put forward rather than always being an endless critique. 3. I then wanted to know if there was some belief on the part of some TST critics that there is no such thing as tectonically generated lights. Chris replied, QUOTE: "As stated earlier, several critics are well-versed in such research, so that is not an issue. There is data supporting EQL phenomena, ...." UNQUOTE. What Chris is saying is, "Yes, there is evidence LP are produced by tectonic factors." Well, of course there is. The association is clear-cut, but the exact mechanisms involved are by no means clear - any more than they are for ball lightning or the newly-discovered 'sprites'. They exist, and it is the challenge for us to try to understand their nature. The same with EL. Chris then makes the curious statement, QUOTE: "but clearly UFO reports are different from such observations. Any cursory review of EQL cases will show this". UNQUOTE Well, perhaps it is because Chris has been cursory that he thinks this. First of all, what is he defining UFOs as? Surely, the bulk of all such reports are short-lived lights? (It is intereresting that some of the lights in the recent Cornish case were referred to as 'UFOs' in some quarters, so they can hardly be very different beasties.) EL can be as large (eg. at Hessdalen) as reported UFOs; if they are a form of plasma, as seems likely (most scientists are assuming that for ball lightning, for instance) , then they can appear glowing and multicoloured at night, and appear as metallic-looking disks and globes in daylight. Then Chris complains, QUOTE: "Just because lights have been seen associated with earthquakes does *not* mean that such things as earth lights exist nor that the TST is a viable option." UNQUOTE What some of us are suggesting, and I am one that is, is that EL *are* a form of EQL, but that they can also occur in association with tectonic strain as well as kinetic release such as tremors and quakes. Indeed, the evidence is quite clear that strain prior to a quake, and settlement of geology after an event, can produce lights. But waxing and waning can occur without a quake. Moreover, EL show a tendency to be more stable than most (not all) reported EQL - in other words, they can last longer. These are the sort of characteristics that we feel make it worth categorising such EQL/BL-type objects as a distinct form. But I don't want to minimise the complexities. It may be that thegeophysical forces that give rise to EL are found in both tectonic and meteorological factors. Or even a combination. BL, EQL and EL may be a related spectrum of phenomena. From their reported appearance and behaviour, this seems to be a reasonable assumption. Nor do I want to reduce the mystery of LP to their being "just plasmas". I think we are dealing with something exotic, something with remarkable emergent characteristics, and I think the research that goes into their understanding will ultimately move us into new areas of physics. We are dealing with an extreme phenomenon of nature, and for Chris to keep demanding quick and easy answers is unrealistic, and he must know that. The next exchange (4) was really encompassed in the above paragraphs, so to avoid unnecessary repetition, I move on to: 5. I asked if critics such as Chris Rutkowski also constantly attack the authors of theories seeking to explain phenomena such as BL and EQL. Chris replied, QUOTE: "Again, your perception of the manner of "attack" is most interesting." UNQUOTE I may be missing something, but this seems to avoid answering my question. 6. I then noted that Chris Rutkowski refers to my 'pendulum dowsing'. I wanted to know precisely what he meant by that. He replied: QUOTE: "Were you not involved with Paul McCartney and the Dragon Project in England? Were pendulums not used to dowse ley lines and megalith sites as part of an ongoing investigation into earth lights?" UNQUOTE (He also made further, unpleasant remarks on this topic in reply to Peter Brookesmith.) The answer is no, Chris. Not by me at any rate: I have never used dowsing, and don't consider myself to be a dowser. I was involved with research work with Paul McCartney, yes. In our joint work on the Dragon Project (DP) he and I never at any point addressed matters to do with dowsing. He was brought on to the DP to a) help check for on-site geomagnetic anomalies, and (b) to assess relationships between different types of megalithic site and faulting. Aspects of (b) got into my first book on EL (*Earth Lights*, Turnstone, 1982). I have personally never used pendulum dowsing on my EL research (I don't know how one *could* do so, in fact) - the bulk of which was carried out independently of the DP, BTW. The DP itself was (and still is) a wide-ranging multi-disciplinary study to test certain claims about weird 'energies' at ancient sites, 'energy leylines' and other New Age beliefs. If Chris had kept himself informed, he would have discovered that when it had completed its deliberations on these topics the DP provided a swingeing attack on all such notions. We looked at dowsers, psychics and others at sites as well as conducting physical measurements. Regarding the latter, we *did* find some geophysical anomalies at certain types of sites, and we also uncovered anecdotal reports stretching back a century or more that people had seen LP at and around stone circles. And McCartney did find that stone circles and individual standing stones correlated with significant local faulting, but that certain other megalithic and earthwork sites did not show strong correlations. SPECIAL NOTE: With regard to 'energy' dowsing, I have for 15 or more years been the chief critic of such claims in the UK - and you can check that with any neutral observer (try Bob Rickard if you like, editor of *Fortean Times*). I have been hated, abused, and otherwise reviled by New Age circles and dowsing groups because of my emphatic opposition to their nonsense. Therefore, Chris, you have not only got it wrong, you have got it completely ass-backwards. What you state, and the implications you make, are simply untrue. You are either totally ignorant, or are being intellectually dishonest. I don't know if you bother to make apologies for publicly broadcasting untruths, but if so, then you owe me one. 7. I next remarked: QUOTE: " In our work on the 1904-5 earth lights outbreak in NW Wales (Harlech-Barmouth area) we have been able to use highly specific sighting information, mapped to within 100 metres, and correlate it with major faulting and seismic events. In 1983, there was a 5.6 Richter event in the same area, and we have recently been able to record eyewitness accounts of lights (some described as the size of small cars) appearing on the eve prior to the quake. There simply is not any doubt about the lights-tectonic connection." UNQUOTE To which Chris responded: QUOTE: ".... and in all cases, the lights could not have been explained as any other conventional objects or other phenomena? I have read the documentation of the so-called "Welsh Revival" and one factor that is often overlooked is the subjective aspect of the observations. This is just one factor that may have some bearing on the "specific" location of luminous phenomena in historical accounts." UNQUOTE Well, this can be said about any and all UFO reports. On that basis, none of us can study ufology at all. All one can do is be as sensible and accurate as possible. In the 1904-5 cases, we used only multiple witness sightings, by local people and visiting journalists from London. The reported LP were balls and other shapes of light seen, in the main, at a few yards, sitting on specific building roof-ridges, hovering over a road, or popping out of the ground at a specific place in a specific field. A few were seen at up to half a mile's unobstructed distance. McCartney and I spent 6 months with repeated field trips to exactly locate the reports. Some could not be placed due to inadequate information in the reports, but most could. In some cases, place-names were used that have fallen out of common usuage today, and we had to do field and archive research to obtain the proper locations. All the time we were doing this work, we were unaware of the existence of the Mochras Fault running through the region, as the existing geological maps was nearly100 years old. As it happened, I gave a talk (on request) about this work with the 1904/5 LP while in the field, at Mychynlleth town hall, and it was a geologist in the audience, involved with the new survey of the area, who identified the LP mapping we had with the course of the Mochras Fault. When we came to do the correlations, we had the very latest geological information to correlate our mapped LP report data it with. We then had marvellous help from the Edinburgh Seismic Unit who gave us the seismic history surrounding the 1904/5 events. It transpired they occurred in the midst of the most active period of seismicity on record for Wales. The events were bracketed by quakes, and immediately preceded by one a bare 20 miles from the region. This was not a casual piece of research. We then went on to repeat it for another set of events in SW Wales in 1977, and came up with equally convincing correlations with faulting. Chris then says: QUOTE: "As for the 1983 event, the same objections apply, and there is still a great deal of doubt in the minds of some researchers." UNQUOTE To which I say, which researchers? And are we talking about the 1983 event? If you mean the 1905 event, well, quite honestly, no other researcher has done the work McCartney and I have. But I have to say no researcher has stated to me that they are unconvinced (it would be hard to know what more evidence could possibly be supplied, in any case). I do not know who Chris is referring too. As for the 1983 event, well, I conducted this research in August 1996, so I don't see how Chris or anyone else is in a position to comment. I was simply giving out unpublished information. And in talking with the local country people, having been shown trajectory paths, and the 'landing spots' of LP up to 3 m across occurring a few hours prior to the quake, I have no doubt that actual events are being described. Lights appeared in association with the 1983 Lleyn Peninsula event, and that is all there is to it. 8. I then went on to refer to the 1996 Cornish quake and the vast array of lights that have been reported before and after it, and mentioned my own (multi-witness) observations of remarkable, large golden lights 2 years previously in the exact same area. I also stated that the QUOTE "British geological Survey accepts the evidence of precursor lights, and have records to show similar reports in Cornwall going back over a century." UNQUOTE To which Chris retorted: QUOTE: "Would the British Geological Survey like to go on record as supporting such a contention? In the USA, the American Geological Survey is very hesitant to declare luminous phenomena as definitely being associated or otherwise allowable as predictors of earthquakes. In fact, Geo-Monitor has refrained from emphasizing the UFO/seismic relationship because of a lack of rigour and consistency in observations. While I am sure the BGS would suggest that some luminous phenomena have been seen and thought associated with tremors, would they say with any certainty that such associations are definite precursors and can be used to predict earthquakes? Obviously, not having access to BGS documents, I'm giving you the edge here. By all means, educate me about the BGS position. I'd be most interested to learn their formal position." UNQUOTE Well, I am always happy to try to educate you, Chris. The term "precursor lights" is the BGS's own, not mine. When we were doing our work in Wales, a certain person in the Edinburgh Seismological Unit (who shall remain nameless) told me that when he retired, he would write a book on the LP- seismic connection. "You should see what we have here," he said, tauntingly! What can I tell you. . . I do know, and agree, that the USGS is more conservative. But by the time all institutions accept such correlations as meaningful (not to mention downright bloody obvious), we'll all be yawning about them. They were the same with EQLs and BL. A few old lags in all the Earth Sciences fields in all countries still hold out on all these fronts - BL, EQL, EL - wanting a nice tidy (and tiny) model of the planet to take to their graves. But then I've stood on the high slopes of Popocatapetl with the young(ish) geologist monitoring it, listening to him tell me of the LP he has seen in the area since his teens! It's all over bar the shouting, Chris. 9. Finally, I remarked that, QUOTE: "Excellent photographs exist of EQLs in Japan, and earth light phenomena in Norway and elsewhere (and others are in the pipeline from Australia). I should report that over the last 2-3 years, I have been funded to travel to many parts of the world to take trained personnel and equipment into the field to observe light phenomena. In some case we have been able to find mundane explanations (the whole New Jersey 'Vestigia' case has been completely dismissed - we found the reason for the reports)... ." UNQUOTE. I mentioned our work in Australia doing EL fieldwork, and that we had geomagnetic anomalies recorded while observing unexplained lights. Chris replied, QUOTE: "Really? And that one was funded by the AGU and written up in great detail in EOS and other publications. The researchers at the time were convinced that the luminous objects detected were related to geophysical/geological mechanisms. What was the explanation?" Chris, are you referring to the event NE of Perth, which may have been a quake/meteorite/nuclear expolosion? I'm not referring to that. I am referring to work we did in the autumn of 1995 in the Kimberley region of Western Australia. It was an ICRL/Hessdalen Project/Channel 4 joint sponsorship. Nothing as yet has been published on this expedition, so you *don't* know. As I said earlier, Chris, you are out of the loop - and other subscribers to this list need to be aware of that. (Am quite happy to work with you, though, when what I perceive as your somewhat hostile attitude becomes more recognisably constructive.) The only reports on these events are currently circulating privately, among the researchers, sponsorship bodies concerned and consultants we have approached. Information on this expedition (even then limited) will appear for the first time in public in the EL programme on Discovery Channel in the USA (17 and 22 March, I believe - this is the prog that appeared in the UK in November, 1996) and in the forthcoming book, "UFOs and Ufology" by Peter Brookesmith and myself. Here I need only mention that we saw a number of unexplained lights at various exceedingly remote and uninhabited locations in the Outback (as well as numerous and long nights seeing nothing but the glorious southern sky and shooting stars), some of which we caught on still film and video. In one case, we obtained multiple still shots and video footage of unexplained, discrete lights (two) in an area of uninhabited desert that had been dark for 3 previous nights, concurrent with anomalous magnetometer readouts. We repeated this in Mexico, with anomalous readouts taken at the foot of (the active volcano) Popocatapetl, preceding by a few hours the appearance high on El Popo's flanks of a flashing, diffuse light. David Fryberger, who was present to wintess all this, felt we were seeing a discharge phenomenon of some kind (rather similar, in fact, to what our Mexican geologist had reported). This would seem to support Persinger's suggestion that geomagnetic changes might accompany EL/LP appearances. But, of course, as ever, there is more work to be done. I should also report (exclusively) for this list that we have studied the Marfa area in Texas, and found most of what are considered to be the 'Marfa lights' to be explainable phenomena. However, we did see an unexplained light deep in the Chisos Mountains during our field expedition to the area, and another possible one on the Chinati peak. It should also be noted that Ohtsuki has taken four highly equipped expeditions to the Marfa region, and on just one of them (that's how difficult this work is) obtained a close observation (100 metres) of a LP, which transformed from a rod into a globe. This was recorded on two videos and instrumentation. The results of those instrumental readings were not divulged to me. Erling Strand is deep into the huge, complex operation of wiring up the entire Hessdalen valley for automatic monitoring. It is time consuming, difficult and expensive. Erling has only limited support from his college, Ostfold, so has to hassle for funding, and work all hours. There is other work, both completed and afoot. Suffice it to say that EL work is alive and well - like never before, in fact. Chris, we really are doing our best -- and perhaps you should be more cautious in what appears to me and others as your habit of endlessly criticising (it has been going on for one and half decades to my knowledge). More is being done in genuine, scientific research terms right now on the EL front than in any other area of ufology. It is not enough, we have no hard-and-fast answers, but it is the best we can do - and it ain't bad in the circumstances. I'll state my current position regarding EL, to minimise, if possible, misunderstandings. i) I am going for a tectonic connection with EL because EQL *are* produced (let us not be ridiculously coy about this), and it therefore seems a logical starting point. Investigation to date provides a broad base of evidence - in addition to Persinger's work on the TST - suggesting this approach is reasonably founded. But I do not rule out meteorological elements as well - and, quite probably, other factors of which we are unaware at present. ii) I think the brand of EQL we call EL sometimes display sufficiently distinct characteristics, which I have described partially here and fully elsewhere, to warrant that special designation. iii) EL reportedly behave as if that have electromagnetic properties, but also, at times, seem to display more exotic ones unfamiliar to the current state of geophysics. One reason for this, I suspect, from study of hundreds of cases, is that macro-quantum characteristics are displayed. Macro-quantal phenomena have been produced in the laboratory, and quantum scientists with whom I have discussed this matter accept the possibility. But, we'll see. iv) I do *not* think EL account for most UFO sightings. I think most UFO reports can be deconstructed into psychosocial phenomena. I do think some reports do relate to actual unexplained phenomena, however, and so far I am satisfied that those limited number of cases can be studied from the EL angle. If anything ever comes up to convince me to modify that view, I will readily do so. v) I also think there is a discrete set of reports that relate to altered-mind-state events (eg. 'abductions') that by and large have become erroneously associated with the 'UFO' question, although there are occasional links. I have both opinions and research on this aspect, which I will publish in due course, as will Peter Brookesmith. It is essentially another area of study than geophysics - though , again, there might be very occasional connections as we remark in the forthcoming book. Finally Chris, regarding you getting a review (freebie) copy of that book when it comes out later this year, well, look at it this way: monies from that book are helping finance the new Hessdalen project, and it helps people like Peter and I fund our independent existence so we can conduct the sort of research I have been alluding to. We do not have salaries or income from any other sources than our writing and whatever research funding we can raise. Think of the few dollars you pay for the book as being supportive of research. I'm sure you would want to do that. My best wishes to you Chris, and to all members of the list. May understanding prevail. Paul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:14:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:18:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: yogi@iadfw.net >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:34:45 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >All, >Just for a quick reference. I've got the "read his lips" comment >that Colin Andrews published in his newsletter sometime in 1995. >>From CPRI Newsletter, Vol 3. No. 3. > Colin Andrews wrote: > He (Santilli) stated that it showed the crash scene and the debris > being inspected and removed. It also showed two autopsies with one > of the autopsy films showing very clearly President Truman watching > the procedures. Allegedly, Truman is standing with others behind a > glass screen and his face can be seen so clearly that you can > lip-read his words. All the film is in black and white and without > a sound track. According to the photographer, the second autopsy > was undertaken in a military hospital in Dallas. I asked Santilli > what was the most impressive thing he had seen on the film. What > had convinced him that it was authentic - "I had no doubts" he said, > "when I saw President Truman". >Isn't it strange that Ray was quoted as saying "I had no doubts ... >when I saw President Truman." Does this imply that he physically >saw Truman on the film? IMO, YES it does. Now Ray says he was only >going on what the cameraman said and the canister labels. >Regards, >Bill Ralls Bill- I appreciate your earlier message correcting the inadvertant mis-quote, which I blindly followed like a fool. So much mis-information has been presented in this, that I can understand the confusion, and I trust that we won't create more havoc down the pike when someone finds them listed in some archive. You have quoted a statement made by Ray in a statement issued by Colin Andrews. I would note that in this case, you have two individuals who have an agenda in this matter, and each is likely to color their phrases to enhance their contentions. I am curious enough at this point to contact Colin by snail mail and confirm that he actually heard this statement from Ray, but would note that (if memory serves) he spent a fair amount of time and energy in 1995 supporting the validity of the "film". The question is whether or not Ray actually used those exact words, or did Colin "color" his phrasing to have the desired impact. He obviously believe the "film" to be real, and if Ray simply told him about the alleged Truman reel, he might have glorified the story. I have no proof to that effect, but I believe that it is possible that may have occured. Colin, to my knowledge, has had little or nothing to do with the film since the early part of 1996. He has focused his efforts elsewhere, as have most researchers. However, I would be the first to admit that Ray has made many statements without thinking, and without foundation. That is, I believe, the background behind his statement to Friedman regarding Truman being in Dallas. We again are faced with the issue of "intent", which can be argued both ways, which is why I contend that we need actual "proof" in the form of evidence to prove either side of this issue. You also asked in another message: >It's so obvious that this whole thing is a SCAM. Are there no laws that >can deal with this? It seems criminal to me. Maybe it's not against the >law to profit from gulibility and stupidity. But it should be. I would suspect that the simple answer to your question is: No, there are no broad laws to cover this situation, which is a shame since a court of law might be able to force additional information to the surface. The problem is once again "intent", which has to be proved in the U.S. "beyond a reasonable doubt", and I doubt that Ray would have any problems obtaining a good lawyer to insert such a "doubt" into the minds of a jury. In a broad sense, there is no law (in the U.S.) against lying to one's fellow man. Of course, I'm not a lawyer and would appreciate being corrected if this is untrue. A scam is defined as "a fraudulent business scheme; a swindle" (according to the American Heritage dictionary), and since Ray has included a statement that he really doesn't know what the "film" is of, an intentional fraud would likely be difficult to prove beyond a doubt. But the concept of profiting from statements or allegations, that have little or no background that can be checked, is certainly not new to UFOlogy. As an example, there are many specific allegations included in William Cooper's book, which has sold thousands of copies and helped him to become a speaker on the conference circuit, and many of those can't be checked against the official record. What about the allegations presented by Robert Dean, William Hamilton III, Richard Boylan, and many others. They often include many statements from mysterious sources, or records that cannot be accessed. We are left with only their annecdotal commentary and our faith in their veracity. Unfortunately, this leads us to rely on our "faith" in what we accept (or believe) to be real as a foundation from which to judge. That can also have the impact of placing blinders on us, preventing us from seeing a larger truth, but that is a psychological discussion best saved 'til later. I've expressed the opinion on several occasions that I really don't think that it is Ray's interest to validate the film, regardless of whether it's real or not. If it is a fake, then such testing would result in fewer sales of his product. If, on the other hand, Ray releases information that prove to be the "smoking gun" that showing once and for all that the military has been involved in a conspiracy of silence, Ray's film segments would become nothing more than a footnote in history as the color glossy photos, reports, and full length films are forced into the open by an angry public and Congress. Again, his sales would plummet and his role in this would fade to obscurity. My official opinion (whatever that is) is that we don't really know enough about the "film" to pass a final judgement on it. The evidence both for and against its validity is annecdotal in nature, and the only hard evidence we have regarding the video itself seems to check with the provenance given to it by the "cameraman" via Ray. Teresa Carlson, who has performed a tremendous amount of research into the video, has said she believes it to likely be a fake, but hasn't been able to find a flaw to prove that contention.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:28:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:19:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Regarding... >Date: 14 Feb 97 10:15:41 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob mentioned to Bill Ralls: >I do know that the Truman "read my lips" comment was something Reg >Pressley said. Bob, As Bill has just confirmed, it was Colin Andrews, and only Colin Andrews, who reported this comment from Ray Santilli. >As Ray later found out, less than half the film he got from Jack >could be made viewable. This is of course not only an unsubstantiated claim, but one which doesn't seem to agree with the evidence we do have. In that same Winter 1995 newsletter, Andrews claimed, "He was, however, having some difficulty developing the aged film. Some of the reels were worse than others, the greys were merging with the blacks and images were nondescript. The prestigious Royal Society in London agreed to assist with their high-tech computer enhancement facility". Second-hand claims are never to be trusted, but if Ray said this, it's apparently not true. Paul Fuller contacted the Royal Society and on 12 June 1995, they wrote to Paul, "The Royal Society does not have a "high-tech computer enhancement facility" for films. Any claims that the Society agreed to assist in enhancing the film is without foundation". Andrews continued, "Apparently results from computer enhancement were good and Santilli said they only had a few more films to complete". As you know, when Ray Santilli participated in the CompuServe MUFON forum conference on 24 June 1995, he also confirmed, "For the great part the footage was in dreadful condition. Unfortunately some parts were so corroded we could only rely upon digital enhancement to retrieve the image". In response to the question, "Is Truman visible?", he claimed, "We still are not certain about Truman we have six reels to go". So, that's six reels which hadn't been viewed yet? Presumably it must be. "I came away with 22 reels of film, 21 safety prints and one negative". Simple arithmetic; twenty two reels were allegedly bought, six haven't been seen yet, which leaves 16 reels to account for. By the 24 June, it seems all of the footage we know about had been shown either privately or in public and included: "Tent examination" 1 reel (the scrap reel) "Second autopsy" 9 reels "Debris" 3 reels Which means we have only have three reels which could logically not have been seen by this time. Theoretically, these could be the three other alleged reels we know of - the reel of negative film which was apparently of no relevance and returned and the two reels from which film could not be retrieved, the ones labelled "Recovery" and "Truman". But what about the "first autopsy"? We don't know how many reels it supposedly consists of, but it had certainly been shown two months previously and similar to the "second autopsy", we have "key" scenes from the start of the procedures through to the end. Likewise, this presumably come from several, different reels. It's academic how many reels are theoretically involved, we've already run out of film! As for the claim that, "A good 50% of the footage we had, we were not able to retrieve an image from", that obviously only compounds matters. As you will also appreciate, I put all of this to Ray and he had the opportunity to clear it up, but apparently couldn't. We don't have all the evidence we would like in this affair, but we're not devoid of any either. The Royal Society "film enhancement" claims are reminiscent of the Rank "film processing" claims, neither were found to be true, and in view of all the other anomalies with the "archive reels of 16mm film" story and the "film samples", etc., etc., I would have thought there's now more than sufficient evidence that what looks like a latex dummy nailed to a table, is, not surprisingly, exactly that. Statements such as "less than half the film he got from Jack could be made viewable" are simply ignoring the evidence, and it would be welcome if you could instead offer an explanation for these anomalies. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 Re: Peter Brookesmith yet again From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Feb 97 21:55:41 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:22:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Brookesmith yet again Okay: this is the last crack on this one from the Duke, who offers his customary compliments. > From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Peter Brookesmith yet again > To: updates@globalserve.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto) > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:26:04 -0600 (CST) > But I get your point now. Paul doesn't use dowsing anymore No, you don't get the point. He never did use dowsing, ever. He did - or the Dragon Project did - evaluate dowsing for "earth energies" and the like, and soon decided it was a crock. Oh, and said so, too. >> If Persinger's UFO data was flawed, start again. Meanwhile there is >> plenty of evidence that quakes generate weird light effects. > No one is disputing this. Don't bring up any more straw men. Excuse the idle laughter from the cheaper seats. It was one of several things you *omitted* when, er, educating (your word) John Powell on the subject way back when. So it is not quite a straw man; perhaps a straw dog, which you gagged in the night? > If earthquakes make lights, then minor stresses should make them, > too? Nature doesn't work like that. Spare me. Go and read catastrophe theory again. My term "less dramatic" doesn't necessarily mean minor in the sense of weeny, titchy, midget, dwarf, micro, just "less than an earthquake". Various analogies not suitable for a List intended for family reading come to mind, which would illustrate enormous amounts of energy focused toward a crisis that, in the event, doesn't, um, make the earth move. It would be interesting to know how much of the current version of the TST (TSH) is based on monitored geological data. It would be interesting to know even if such things are monitored. If so then everyone has something objective to argue about. If not then I think I'll just go back to doing what I do well, and consume a lot of effete liqueurs at someone else's expense. > And we didn't get to the Hale Bopp companion spaceship without > Ed Dames improving upon remote viewing. And I'm sure I'm not the first to think that Courtney Brown is no Einstein, or to doubt that (saving your presence, ma'am) R!!h!!d B!!l!n has ever had a cold shower. But that doesn't dispose of my point about phlogiston and the ether. I gather Paul has more to say (or so my bent coathangers, Tarot cards, alien informants, household channeler, native prescience and Bob Rickard's tea leaves tell me) if he hasn't already, and now I'll shut up. best wishes Peregrine, Duke of Mendoza and San Andreas "Better soused than dowsed"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee From: Thomas Rice <trex@HOLLY.COLOSTATE.EDU> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:55:16 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:25:04 -0500 Subject: Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee At 11:21 AM 2/15/97 -0800, Jan Aldrich wrote: >Seems funny to me that the above information has been out in the >open all this time. I think that says volumes about current UFO >research. I have read a lot of speculations on >COSMIC TOP SECRET--there is even a video by that title. >I have not read very much on people trying to check on it. >Seems to me some people are just trying to take the marks. >There is nothing special about COSMIC TOP SECRET material. >Jan Aldrich Hello Jan, You are 100% correct in your assessment of research in Ufology. You have heard from me directly on matters concerning the US military and security clearances in particular. That anyone could make a second career out of a misinterpreted clearance beats me. Than again, as George said, "If you nail two things together, that have never been nailed together before, some smuck will buy it!" For the record, Ladies and Gentlemen, I held a Top Secret clearance, (TS/SBI, which means Top Secret, based on a Special Background Investigation by the Defense Investigative Service, or DIS). Without the "/SBI" part, no one, at no time can or has been given proper access to SCI or Specially Compartmentalized Information. To further advise you, I still hold an 'inactive Secret' clearance, as does anyone who has ever held the job and clearances I had. This is SOP, for the DOD, (sorry couldn't resist). All that is required to reactivate my TS, is a "bringup investigation" to update the data base and provide a fresh look at any risk I might pose to National Security. More to the point, any supposed document, dealing with a potentially threat, such as UFOs might be interpreted, would automatically be classified at that level. Therefore, in my mind, any document which was originally classified at a Secret level, (not counting declassified or reclassified files), is suspect in nature. This doesn't mean that the document should automatically be disregarded... but treat it as a red flag. As for DD 201 files, (military personal file), I can't say for certain, but it should be available through the FOIA, likewise for the DIS's background investigation files. This I do know. DIS background investigation records _are_ available to the individual who was the subject of that investigation, ie, I can request the DIS file developed on _me_. Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice "One man's magic is another man's technology". Robert A. Heinlein "Love is _the_ most important factor in living, because without love, nothing else is the same." TR
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:32:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:20:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Regarding... >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 07:01:41 -0500 >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Steven Kaeser wrote: >The fact that both proceedures appear to follow a pattern also can be >explained by the scenerio presented, in that these were not the first >such creatures to allegedly be sliced and diced. I'm not sure which earlier "autopsy" you are referring to, but according to Ray's story these were the first two which took place. If you're thinking about Michael Hesemann's story that, "The cameraman filmed the second and third autopsies on 1st and 3rd July 1947", he's completely misunderstood this. The photocopies of the claimed reel labels relating to the "second autopsy" refer to "Body No. 2" and Ray Santilli had confirmed that the other "autopsy" footage is recorded as the first autopsy. I pointed this out and Hesemann replied, "Indeed, the cameraman calls the autopsies of July 1st and 3rd "the first and second" autopsy, but it referred to autopsies he had filmed. Since FOUR aliens had been recovered, as he said, and one was killed on the crash site, only ONE survived until 1949, it's a logical conclusion as every historian who has to reconstruct historical events would do, that IN FACT HIS first autopsy was the one of the second being". In the meantime, Bob Shell had also commented, "This is not the information given to me by Ray, nor does it fit the info on the film labels. The autopsy we have all seen is clearly labelled as the second, and, according to Ray the other one is equally clearly labelled as the first. The cameraman gives the dates of July 1, 1947 for the first one, and July 3, 1947, for the second one. The third, according to Ray, took place in Washington, DC, in 1949 in a large operating theatre with many spectators. This clearly leaves one body not accounted for. Since the cameraman implied that at least one was not injured in his original statement, this uninjured one could have lived for some time. Perhaps it was the one autopsied in 1949, perhaps not". Hesemann responded, "maybe you are right... but since FOUR beings were found and three autopsies were filmed by our cameraman and only ONE survived until 1949 when the third filmed autopsy took place... what happened to the fourth one?" Ah, one of our aliens is missing... But it always had been and it's surprising Hesemann didn't realise this until a couple of months ago. >There have been many complaints that the "autopsy/dissection" of an >alien creature would have taken far longer than is presented in the >Santilli video, but it is quite apparent that the two people in the >video knew exactly what they were taking apart. That's possibly because they put it together. ;) >Of course, there are a few significant scenes missing (such as the >opening of the chest cavity) and it would be interesting to see if >the same "significant" scenes are missing from both. Yes, I'm sure we would learn a lot from this video. >What would be the logical excuse to create the "tent sequences"? The >one that has been released is so dark that it is almost unwatchable, >and the other isn't too much better. Why waste the time and materials >on that if you've already got the other sequences in the queue? The "tent examination" was perhaps the genesis of what followed. It would be a relatively simple set and doesn't require much in the way of props, or even a model. This is maybe an appropriate point to bring up some material from last year. What follows is a summary of that material, posted on CompuServe by a subscriber: "About three months ago I received a call from a friend of mine who's in the Music Business and he told me about a photographer in London (UK) who had known Santilli 3 years ago (he actually did some work for one of Ray's companies) and he said the autopsy was fake. I put it aside with the idea of checking it later. A couple of days ago my friend mentioned it again in a conversation. He gave me the name and number of the guy and tonight I called him. Here's what he said Ray told him, as much as he could remember after 3 years." "Ray had recently been to a TV Convention in the United States, The (source) couldn't remember the location but he said he thought it was somewhere exotic, like LA or Vegas. At this convention they buy and sell TV programmes. Ray told him that there was *a back room where shady stuff, illegal films can be bought and sold and that someone had showed him a small snippet of the *autopsy* and told him it was genuine, Ray was interested and had it checked and decided it was a fake..and got the guy to admit it was a fake. At the time of this alleged conversation Ray was asking the advice of the (source) and was considering whether to buy it and try it. The (source) says that there wasn't any film at this stage...just the snippet..but apparently it was a good fake". "The guy wanted a great deal of money to make the film but when Santilli bought it he knew it was a fake...... The (source) said that the guy (cameraman) tried to con Ray, but that he was too smart for that, and had the clip checked out, decided it was fake and got the cameraman to admit it....but still decided to buy the film as it was such a good fake....". [End] This person also put to Ray Santilli: "Just for the record can you tell us if you did visit a film convention/festival or some venue where one buys and sells TV films, in the US, at that time? I realise you must cover many of these functions during the course of a year as there are several worldwide. But I'm sure you keep an account of your trips and I would be interested to know if you visited Low Res in LA that year, for instance. Ray I wouldn't dream of calling you a liar, I'd really love the autopsy footage to be genuine, but.....and it's a very big BUT....so far we've had no serious back-up from you...the photographer is not hoping to gain anything from this, he's an intelligent man from what I picked up and he certainly knows his work. But one of you are not telling the truth...... So are you saying the conversation never took place at all. or The conversation may have taken place but the content of the conversation is in error". Ray's response and flat denial was, "I attend and have done for very many years every media trade fair. During each year I am in Vegas as well as L.A. and many other cities worldwide. The story your friend has relayed is complete nonsense". Maybe so, but it's perhaps worth looking at these claims with the benefit of hindsight. Essentially, sometime around 1992/1993, Ray was offered some remarkable film material whilst in the US. It was subsequently found to have been faked, but it was a good fake and too much of a temptation as an extraordinary and marketable product. There apparently wasn't any film in existence other than this "snippet", so could this have been the "tent footage" - a tale which grew in the telling to become an "alien autopsy" and finally a "Roswell alien autopsy"? Believing the background to the film story was of significance, I corresponded at length with Philip Mantle last year and Philip was very helpful. We established that one person who should have some relevant evidence was Carl Nagaitis, co-author with Philip of "Without Consent". I spoke to Carl - it was Ray who gave me Carl's phone number - and he was equally helpful. In the statement, released via Philip Mantle, which you may have seen, Carl explains: "This is to confirm that I first met Ray Santilli in l992 while researching an article for the Sunday People about some never-before-seen photos of Elvis Presley. Ray was interested in selling the rights to the story through a national newspaper. Although we didn't do a deal, Ray and I got on well and he told me how he had made many trips to the USA in search of the material. When I left Mirror Group Newspapers in January l993 I kept in touch with my contacts, including Ray, and I had several meetings with him about various possible projects. It was during one of these meetings, in February or March of l993, that he revealed that he had seen some remarkable material while in the USA. He did not reveal the nature of that material". [End] At this point, we have a situation where Ray revealed only that he saw some "remarkable material" whilst in the US. Conceivably, this could be the film he was allegedly offered at the convention. Note the claim that, "The (source) says that there wasn't any film at this stage...just the snippet...the guy wanted a great deal of money to make the film". This indicates that the "snippet" was not part of the "autopsies" that we know of, it was a small section of some other footage and it would require a significant investment to "make the film". Interestingly, Ray confirms that, "I arranged for a video snip to be brought back during the time I was negotiating for the film". The video snip was the "tent footage". Obviously this scenario - and that's all it is for the moment - explains most things and that's really the point. Something like this could easily have happened and there's nothing in the overall story and, more importantly the footage itself, which is difficult to explain rationally. One thing I would say is that the source of these claims, the photographer, wasn't likely to know all the details of Ray's acquisition story, but they have made some claims which fit the timescale, and some other factors, perhaps surprisingly well. >I think you're going to have a field day with the new book about to >hit the book stands by Michael Hesemann and Philip Mantle, entitled >BEYOND ROSWELL. I think we're aware of much of the content and could guess what the rest will be. It's largely a case of how much of what has already been shown to be factually incorrect, misleading and downright nonsense, will have been removed. >I still think that Ray will want to jump on this bandwagon at some >point, but that's just my opinion based on his past actions. Judging by Ray's comments that the "cameraman video" wasn't to be broadcast until May and his response to Bob Rickard that he wishes to defer use of the "cameraman's image" until May, yes, there's maybe something scheduled for then. It might simply be that the broadcast rights to the cameraman footage have been sold elsewhere, and that's when it will be shown. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 Re: Lee/Leon Shargel Research From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 15 Feb 97 11:51:59 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 00:23:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Lee/Leon Shargel Research >From: "SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC." <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> >Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 06:25:34 -0700 >Subject: Skywatch: Lee (Leon) Shargel I mentioned this before but it was not posted. There is little to be accomplished, if anything, by looking for info on Lee Shargel or Leon Shargel, since "Shargel" admitted to the conference board that Shargel is not his real name. I'd say that what's important at this juncture is to find out who the man really is, and I understand from a member of the board that this is in the works right now. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 Eye-coverings - man-made? From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:32:41 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:10:01 -0500 Subject: Eye-coverings - man-made? Dear Updates-- In Santilli's autopsy footage, the removal of the opaque eye lenses is quite convincing (they have the filmy quality I associate with the soft contact lenses I wear). If this is a fake, could it be possible that these lenses are a terrestrially manufactured product? Maybe optics comapnies like Bausch and Lomb manufacture similar "full-eye" lenses for use in industrial/laboratory conditions. I've never heard of such a thing, but it might be worth looking into. Also, did soft contact lenses even exist in 1947? Thanks, **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 'Philadelphia Inpho' From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic. net> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 17:42:41 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:12:38 -0500 Subject: 'Philadelphia Inpho' The most interesting letters pop up in my guest book! :) Taken from: http://www.republic.net/~pparri/gb/guestbook.html ******* Mobius Device Update From "THE NIGHT OWL" ******* ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hello There Pat, You ol' desert rat! How's everything going back at the old homestead? Just thought you would like to be updated on my progress concerning the construction of your mobius device! Last night while listening to ART BELL on the radio I sat down and started cutting out and gluing together the parts that I had printed out on paper the pattern from your web page! Since the mobius device actually has only one side and one edge, you would have to start out by making it out of the plexi-glass. this would be what I would call the "core element". Because of the single-edged-one-sided nature of this little beastie, you would have to make twice as many copies of the pattern on the sheet of aluminum, or copper(depending on which one you wish to start with)so that you can cover the plexi-glass core element. As a result the plexi-glass would be ssandwichedbetween two layers of the same sheet-metal. Then you would have to make another double-copy of the pattern from the plexi-glass, and another double-copy on a sheet of copper, if you started with aluminum, or aluminum if you had started out with copper. You can continue building up as many layers as you wish, alternating between plexi-glass, copper, plexiglass, aluminum, plplexilass, copper, plexi-glass, aluminum, etc, etc. You also forgot to mention that a mobius band, being an "endomorphic" structure, for example; objects like shoes, gloves, screws, can-openers, scissors, etc, etc can be made either left-handed or right-handed, so the on mobius device can be constructed to look like the mirror-image of another. Anyway. . . next month I will see if I can get some sheets of plexi-glass, aluminum, and copper, then I will eventually find out how to produce a rotating RF field, and apply it to the mobius device. I understand that the "Philadelphia Experiment" involved the use of an electro-magnetic version of a mobius-band. Speaking of which, my roommate (Johnny) and I, received a visit from a friend of ours from Las Cruces, New Mexico. I won't mention his real name, but we just call him "Stretch" because he's so tall. Anyway, Stretch told us that his great uncle, on his mother's side of the family, had been involved in the "Philadelphia Experiment" while serving in the navy as a ship's cook. Stretch said that it's O.K. for me to mention his great uncle's full name. His name is Mark McKay, but he is unable to talk to anyone about what happen to him. He just keeps screaming out "They're coming, they're coming"!!! He won't say who's ccoming or when they'll be here. He also lost his leg as a result of his foot being embedded in the iron deck during the whole fiasco! Also, some of his friends who were on board had disappeared and were never seen again! Just thought you might be interested in hearing about this. Who knows what a simple harmless-looking thing like a mobius device can do when made of the right materials, and subjected to powerful electro-magnetic and/or rotating RF fields can do. So just to be on the safe side, when I have finished constructing my mobius-device, and when I am ready to Experiment I will set it up out somewhere I some wide open field, turn it on, and... RUN LIKE HELL!!!!!!!!! Wish me luck!!! Gerald Clement St. Germaine (The Night Owl) from El Paso Texas. Gerald Clement St. Germaine <ay424@rgfn.epcc.edu> El Paso, TX USA - Friday, February 07, 1997 at 15:51:10 (CST) ======================================== ~Pat~ . . . EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff. . . http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://pwp.value.net/ufomus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 A spoof alien autopsy? From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:49:27 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:11:20 -0500 Subject: A spoof alien autopsy? Updates-- While on the Web, I stumbled across several photos depicting a room virtually identical to the "alien autopsy" room, complete with viewing window and instrument tray. Two figures in contamination suits are posing busily around what looks very much like the Showtime Roswell dummy! A darkened military officer is visible in one photo. Presuming these are fakes--which came first? Were these photos staged (I'm assuming they're still photos and not frames from a motion picture film) to discredit Santilli's footage or the other way around? It seems strange that anyone would go to the bother of trying to "discredit" Santilli, since no one seems to take him seriously anyway. Or maybe both the Santilli footage and the photos described above were shot in the same "studio" by the same people. The structural resemblance is very good. The "alien" is the only component which is radically different. I'd appreciate some information on this; it could be "old news" that I've simply missed. Thanks, **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:51:15 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:14:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:14:57 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Concerning Colin's claim in his newsletter about Truman having been present at the autopsy of this alien. > I am curious enough at this point to contact Colin by snail > mail and confirm that he actually heard this statement from Ray, > but would note that (if memory serves) he spent a fair amount of > time and energy in 1995 supporting the validity of the "film". You might want to contact Paul Davids as well. I'm pretty sure he heard the same TRUMAN/LIPS comment from Ray, as well. I believe that Reg heard it too. I think there are others but I can't or don't want to remember right now. Contact them all. Get their statements. No one is perfect and some people are less credible than others but one would think that when several people tell _essentially_ the same story that there must be something to it. I do note that both Reg and Colin are personal friends. However, Paul Davids, to the best of my knowledge does not have that kind of relationship, if any with Colin or Reg. Oh, I just remembered, I believe George Wingfield was told the same thing. It is funny though how Ray never really says much, but he sure has a lot of people talking for him. I guess that might make him better able to say: "I never said that." Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 16 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:51:38 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:15:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:28:06 -0500 From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.n > As you will also appreciate, I put all of this to Ray and he > had the opportunity to clear it up, but apparently couldn't. Ray said he came away with 22 reels, but the cameraman says: "Frankly, I wish I had never sold the film. He came back to me until I sold him the film. I sold the film because I needed money. I'm not proud of it. Santilli took about 25 rolls. That's it. I'm going to bed. No more questions. Turn it off. No more questions." So there! More film. Rolls or Reels? What did Ray get? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: Eye-coverings - man-made? From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:05:38 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:37:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Eye-coverings - man-made? >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:32:41 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.net >Subject: Eye coverings: man-made? >In Santilli's autopsy footage, the removal of the opaque eye lenses is >quite convincing (they have the filmy quality I associate with the soft >contact lenses I wear). If this is a fake, could it be possible that >these lenses are a terrestrially manufactured product? Maybe optics >comapnies like Bausch and Lomb manufacture similar "full-eye" lenses >for use in industrial/laboratory conditions. I've never heard of such >a thing, but it might be worth looking into. >Also, did soft contact lenses even exist in 1947? Hi Mac. As I once again saw the Kiviat "documentary" of the AA-film. And I, over and over again, reacted to people, like the FX experts saying things like: "That kind of material didn't exist in 1947...so maybe it's real." You did the same in your postwhere you refered to the question if contact lenses, if the even existed in 1947. I guess you didn't mean it like that, but I think my point is important: 1. There is absolutely no proof the film is made in 1947... 2. No-one has seen any actual frames with the "alien" on it... 3. The labels on the alledged cans are copies... 4. No one has ever seen any original film, just video copies... I can go on and on. But my point is - don't use the not confirmed origin year of the AA-film, along with comparisment of items in it, as some kind of suggested proof to it being the real thing. Once again mac, my guess is that you didn't mean it like I'm suggesting, but others have, so I think my point stands up. Kind regards, Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Feb 97 11:31:53 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:38:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:28:06 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, Colin may have put that comment in print, but Reg told me that Ray had told him that, and I think Reg used the quote in at least one TV or radio interview. I wish you would stop going over and over this about the number of film reels. You do not know the length of those 22 reels, some of which may have been made up of multiple 100 foot rolls spliced together. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: A spoof alien autopsy? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Feb 97 11:32:00 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:41:17 -0500 Subject: Re: A spoof alien autopsy? >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:49:27 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.net >Subject: A spoof alien autopsy? Mac, Those photos using the dummy from the Roswell movie were done after the Santilli film had been shown. We don't know who did them yet (at least I don't know and my correspondents don't know). Yes, this is old news, but worth bringing up again just to clear the air. There are also several fake alien autopsy films which have been created after the Santilli film. One was done in Germany and claimed to come from Romanian intelligence. One was done in South America as part of a TV program. One was done in Canada. They vary in quality, but to my eye none of them even comes close to the quality of the original. I have shown parts of the faked Romanian one at UFO conferences last year, and it always gets great peals of laughter. I have informally called it "Abbott & Costello Do An Alien Autopsy". This one was created in an attempt to trick Mike Hesemann, Philip Mantle and me into believing it and making fools of ourselves. The shoe ended up on the other foot! Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@BrunNet.net> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 16:05:59 PST Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:44:44 -0500 Subject: Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee Jan Aldrich is right on about Cosmic Top Secret. A few years back I had noted a listing of CTS in a list of secruity markings on documents received at the White House. I checked with the Eisenhower Library and was told that indeed it was a NATO clearance stamp. They sent some pre-Ike-as-President examples. I have told this to all within earshot. Obviously this has nothing to do with whether or not Bob's story is legitimate. There seems to be no supporting evidence and he often in lectures goes well beyond facts at hand. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Eye-coverings - man-made? From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 16 Feb 97 11:31:57 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:39:56 -0500 Subject: Eye-coverings - man-made? >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:32:41 -0600 (CST) >From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> >To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.net >Subject: Eye coverings: man-made? >In Santilli's autopsy footage, the removal of the opaque eye lenses is >quite convincing (they have the filmy quality I associate with the soft >contact lenses I wear). If this is a fake, could it be possible that >these lenses are a terrestrially manufactured product? Maybe optics >comapnies like Bausch and Lomb manufacture similar "full-eye" lenses >for use in industrial/laboratory conditions. I've never heard of such >a thing, but it might be worth looking into. >Also, did soft contact lenses even exist in 1947? One of my consulting clients is a German optical firm which makes, among many other things, contact lenses and contact lens molds for other manufacturers. Contact lenses are an old idea, first conceived in the late 1800s, but abandoned because in those days they had to be made from optical glass and were too easily fractured. I'm not sure when acrylic contact lenses first came out, but I used to wear them years ago and at the time no one had heard of soft contact lenses. I think these first came out in the early 70s. There are large contact lenses which cover the whole front of the eye. They are used for certain medical conditions, and have also been used in monster movies to create weird eyes. They were hard acrylic until recent years. The great Lon Chaney, Sr., experimented with eye coverings as part of his monster makeup. He used the white membrane from an egg at times to create a milky eye, and experimented with eye coverings made from collodion (cellulose acetate disolved in acetone) poured onto a mold. The eye coverings seen in the film could conceivably be made in this way. I have asked my group of medical experts, which contains both medical doctors and pathologists if they have ever seen any manmade items like the black eye coverings removed in the film, and none of them has ever seen anything like them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:02:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:42:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:14:57 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >I would suspect that the simple answer to your question is: >No, there are no broad laws to cover this situation, which is a >shame since a court of law might be able to force additional >information to the surface. The problem is once again "intent", >which has to be proved in the U.S. "beyond a reasonable doubt", >and I doubt that Ray would have any problems obtaining a good >lawyer to insert such a "doubt" into the minds of a jury. "Reasonable doubt" is a tenant of law that exist only in American criminal courts. Santilli has been very careful to include statements and disclaimers to prevent himself from falling victim to criminal law. Civil law is a different matter, and a different standard is used. Preponderance of evidence. Ray's real threat has always been civil action. >In a broad sense, there is no law (in the U.S.) against lying >to one's fellow man. Of course, I'm not a lawyer and would >appreciate being corrected if this is untrue. A scam is defined >as "a fraudulent business scheme; a swindle" (according to the >American Heritage dictionary), and since Ray has included a >statement that he really doesn't know what the "film" is of, an >intentional fraud would likely be difficult to prove beyond a >doubt. There are several laws, both actionable criminally and civilly, which cover lying to one's fellow man. The most commonly used law is Fraud, of which a form exists in all 50 states. I agree that criminal law would be difficult to prove, however. And the problem with a civil case is the issue of damages. After spending thousands of dollars getting Santilli to appear in the state that the suit is filed (And without false or fraudulent means), filing suit, preparing a defense, and taking the case to trial, the end result would be a maximum return on investment equal to three times your damages. (I think pain and suffering and punitive damages would be exceedingly hard to prove.) Wow, 50 bucks for a videotape? A max of a couple hundred bucks? Hardly seems worth it. The only thing truly worthwhile that might come out of such a move would be the discovery process. If something "interesting" was discovered. However, Santilli is probably smart enough to offer to settle out of court and prevent the discovery process from occurring. >But the concept of profiting from statements or allegations, >that have little or no background that can be checked, is >certainly not new to UFOlogy. As an example, there are many >specific allegations included in William Cooper's book, which has >sold thousands of copies and helped him to become a speaker on >the conference circuit, and many of those can't be checked >against the official record. What about the allegations >presented by Robert Dean, William Hamilton III, Richard Boylan, >and many others. They often include many statements from >mysterious sources, or records that cannot be accessed. We are >left with only their annecdotal commentary and our faith in their >veracity. Unfortunately, this leads us to rely on our "faith" in >what we accept (or believe) to be real as a foundation from which >to judge. That can also have the impact of placing blinders on >us, preventing us from seeing a larger truth, but that is a >psychological discussion best saved 'til later. Not everyone refuses to questions the unfounded allegations of others. Unfortunately, when we do ask for simple proof we are often ridiculed, labeled disinformation agents, or otherwise shunned. And heaven forbid we catch someone in a lie, then the whole world comes crashing down and the spin doctors go into HIGH gear. >I've expressed the opinion on several occasions that I really >don't think that it is Ray's interest to validate the film, >regardless of whether it's real or not. If it is a fake, then >such testing would result in fewer sales of his product. If, on >the other hand, Ray releases information that prove to be the >"smoking gun" that showing once and for all that the military has >been involved in a conspiracy of silence, Ray's film segments >would become nothing more than a footnote in history as the color >glossy photos, reports, and full length films are forced into the >open by an angry public and Congress. Again, his sales would >plummet and his role in this would fade to obscurity. I agree. Despite Bob Shells claims to the contrary, Santilli is not acting like someone who wants to be forgotten. Hell, he and his company are better known today than prior to this happening. Draw your own conclusions. >My official opinion (whatever that is) is that we don't really >know enough about the "film" to pass a final judgement on it. >The evidence both for and against its validity is annecdotal in >nature, and the only hard evidence we have regarding the video >itself seems to check with the provenance given to it by the >"cameraman" via Ray. Teresa Carlson, who has performed a >tremendous amount of research into the video, has said she >believes it to likely be a fake, but hasn't been able to find a >flaw to prove that contention. The fact that the "hard" evidence matches the story of the cameraman is hardly evidence at all, if the "cameraman's" story was developed after the creation of the film. And my position has always been that without evidence, we have an interesting theory. And we have NO evidence. Hard or otherwise. Michael Malone -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 7 From: John Hayes <john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:12:17 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:46:55 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 7 The article "UFO AND RAF TORNADO SEEN TOGETHER OVER NORTH SEA" in Volume 2 Number 7 of UFO Roundup is extracted from an e-mail sent to me by Tim Matthews. Anyone wishing to read the full article can do so from the News section of my website at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/ John Hayes. john@ufoinfo.ftech.co.uk Visit UFOINFO at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 UFO UpDate Re: A spoof alien autopsy? From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 15:01:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:45:49 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate Re: A spoof alien autopsy? > Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 23:49:27 -0600 (CST) > From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> > To: updates@GLOBALSERVE.net > Subject: A spoof alien autopsy? > Updates-- > While on the Web, I stumbled across several photos depicting a room > virtually identical to the "alien autopsy" room, complete with viewing > window and instrument tray. Two figures in contamination suits are > posing busily around what looks very much like the Showtime Roswell > dummy! A darkened military officer is visible in one photo. > Presuming these are fakes--which came first? Were these photos staged > (I'm assuming they're still photos and not frames from a motion picture > film) to discredit Santilli's footage or the other way around? It seems > strange that anyone would go to the bother of trying to "discredit" > Santilli, since no one seems to take him seriously anyway. > Or maybe both the Santilli footage and the photos described above were > shot in the same "studio" by the same people. The structuralresemblance > is very good. The "alien" is the only component which is radically > different. > I'd appreciate some information on this; it could be "old news" that I've > simply missed. > Thanks, > **************************************************************** > Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 > (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu > Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html > "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" > **************************************************************** They are part of a series of six photos that were posted to the "net" as being from "Autopsy #4" by an anonymous source. They are obvious fakes, and can all be seen on my small WEB site at http://www.nmaa.org/member/skaeser/ . This is an old page that I'm now in the process of moving and updating to larger quarters. Just a few days ago I got an e-mail that may explain where they came from: > To: skaeser@nmaa.org > Subject: about the pictures > X-URL: http://www.nmaa.org/member/skaeser/images.htm > Hi there, > I wanted you to know that i saw the movie the pictures were taken from. > I saw the film in a COMPUTERGAME called "the pandora directive". I don't > know if the makers of the film used excisting material or that they > faked it themselves, but i thought i had to tell you. If anyone has any information on this game, please let me know. I've never seen it. I did see a computer game that was being promoted on the "net" and included an alien autopsy as a part of its premise, but the only portion of the game that was released was a demo that reportedly didn't work very well. A later check of the WEB site showed that it had disappeared and the company that was going to market the game had folded up its tent and moved away. I never got the demo to work, but perhaps someone was attempting to jump on the Santilli bandwagon with one of the Roswell movie aliens from Sharper Image.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 7 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 12:41:05 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:43:33 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 7 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 7 February 16, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor UFOs SIGHTED ALL OVER THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST The states of Oregon and Washington were hit by a major UFO flap last weekend. In Inglewood, Washington (population 4,000), a suburb of Seattle, Jim Waylons was returning to his apartment house around 10:30 p.m. when he spotted "a bright yellow light" hovering over the neighborhood. The unknown object reportedly "hovered over the town for at least 45 minutes," and its presence set off "alarms and security lights" in the building. "They apparently had trouble turning them off until the light in the sky had left." The incident took place on Friday, February 7, 1997. Also on February 7, two Wallowa County Sheriff's Department deputies encountered a UFO while on patrol in Joseph, Oregon (population 1,000). The deputies saw "a perfectly round blue 'fireball' descend vertically in the southern sky right in front" of their cruiser. They "watched the object for two or three seconds, during which it traversed 20 to 40 degrees of arc viewed from the ground." They estimated the UFO to be "1/4 to 1/2 the diameter of the full moon." The object disappeared behind the Wallowa Mountains south of Joseph. The same evening, several persons in Richland, Oregon, 20 miles (32 kilometers) south of Joseph, reported a similar "fireball" low on the horizon. Both towns are in the northeast corner of Oregon, near the Snake River and the Idaho state line. On Saturday, February 8, 1997, at 8 p.m., Shirley Jenkins, who lives at Beacon Hill just north of the twin cities of Kelso (population 11,200) and Longview (population 32,000), Washington, spotted a UFO while heading south on the West Side Highway, along the Cowlitz River. "I watched an unknown light suddenly come into view above downtown Kelso and within seconds dropped to the southwest. It was greenish in color, not round but sort of oval in appearance. The whole experience may have lasted 7 to 10 seconds." Shirley and her passenger "were both in awe and trying to explain what it could've been, and both decided it was not an airplane or anything neither of us had seen before. It was stationary when it first showed up and then shot to the southwest and disappeared." Shirley said she grew up in Kansas and "knows what shooting stars and satellites look like." Meanwhile, 40 miles (64 kilometers) to the south, in the night sky over Salem, Oregon, a private pilot from Bend, Oregon was flying a heading of 108 degrees (magnetic) at an altitude of 7,000 feet. At just about 8 p.m., he "saw a 'green fireball' go streaking from left to right in front of my aircraft at a very high velocity." The pilot radioed Seattle Center, and they responded that they had nothing on radar except a United Airlines jetliner at 10,000 feet. Looking out the window, the pilot saw the jetliner overhead. He added that the fireball "simply disappeared in the blink of an eye. It just seemed suddenly to wink out." The incident was reported Sunday, February 9, in broadcasts on KGW-TV Channel 8 in Portland and on KING-TV Channel 5 in Seattle. On Saturday, February 8, at 11:58 p.m., two men in Oroville, California (population 8,700) saw a ring of "seven to ten very dim reddish points of light, perhaps discoid in shape, streaking in the western sky from north to south." On Tuesday, February 4, 1997, at 6:15 p.m., a private pilot flying south of Diamond Lake Junction, Oregon (population 150), east of Crater Lake National Park, saw "three discs" speeding across the dark sky, pursued by "several jet interceptors." A witness in Medford, Oregon reported that he felt the "mystery boom" of February 4. "It was like nothing that recalled a typical sonic boom. It was more like a shock wave." (Many thanks to Peter B. Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center and to Shirley Jenkins and Rick Coimbra for providing the information for this story.) GREEN FIREBALLS LIGHT UP SKIES IN FRANCE Tuesday evening, February 4, 1997, what was described by Agence France-Presse as a "luminous phenomenon" was seen by dozens of people on the south side of Toulouse, a city in the Haute-Garonne region of southern France. The luminous object appeared at dusk over the Pyrennees-Atlantique region and headed northwest into the Haute-Garonne. According to Agence France-Presse, "The color went from brilliant white to red in passing and ended by turning green." Jean-Jacques Velasco of SEPRA, a unit of France's CNES space agency, said, "Orientation of the phenomenon, its duration and the rate of disintegration present have focused the investigation on it being a satellite." Three hours later, at 9 p.m., a similar "phenomenon of green light" flashed through the skies of Montauban, 40 kilometers (24 miles) north of Toulouse. This time the orb spit out fiery sparks "like a disintegrating meteor" and was in view for ten seconds. At 6:30 p.m., a "large green sphere" was seen by a bus driver on L'autoroute (Highway) Perpignan-Nimes while passing through the city of Narbonne, located on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea. At 8:50 p.m., three UFOs were sighted over Belleville-sur-Saone, 30 kilometers (18 miles) north of Lyon. All three were spherical, two were green, and the final one in the procession was red. Witnesses watched them for five minutes. France's UFO flap continued the following night, Wednesday, February 5, 1997, with another UFO, described as "a ball of green fire disintegrating" over Valence d'Agen, near Lyon. A green fireball was seen in D'Auvillar, at the border of the Lot-et-Garonne region. Gendarmes searched the area but found no trace of a meteor. On Thursday night, February 6, 1997, at 7:45 p.m., the squadron of three UFOs--two green, one red--appeared again, this time in Plasnes. The luminous objects appeared in the west and flew toward the east at a high rate of speed. (Merci beaucoup au Thierry Garnier et Franck Marie de Banque OVNI pour les particuliers) UFOs STARTLE CROWDS IN SANTIAGO DE CHILE On Sunday, February 9, 1997, at 10:30 p.m., a glowing UFO appeared over the Lo Cana section of Santiago de Chile. The object hovered for several minutes over the dry hills of the Cordillera de los Andes, east of the capital. According to eyewitnesses, "The UFO descended slowly and then split into two objects. One of the UFOs left, heading south (towards San Bernardo), and the other remained there. The second UFO started to descend, and then eight balls of light came out of it. They were moving slowly, up, down and sideways." The objects were reportedly tracked on radar by the Grupo de Comunicaciones Electronicas 32 (GCE-32) of the Fuerzas Aereas de Chile (Chilean Air Force) at Tobalba airport near Santiago. Second Air Brigade of the FACh is responsible for defense of the national capital. FACh tracked the UFOs until 1:30 a.m. The sighting was the latest in a series of UFO incidents in this South American country. Two days earlier, on Friday, February 7, an electrical engineer driving to his home in the Penalolen section of Santiago after nightfall "saw this small ball of orange light over a radio tower flying in circles. Suddenly, the ball descended to ground level and headed towards his car." The engineer instantly stepped down hard on the brakes, but "the ball of light" kept on coming "in a spinning motion." The small orange UFO "passed through the windshield and landed in the back seat." After a few minutes, the ball "turned into a jelly and then into a hard round ball, like an eggshell." Puzzled, the engineer drove home and turned the strange object over to the Agrupacion de Investigaciones Ovniologicas (AION), a Chilean UFO study group headed by Rodrigo Fuenzalida. AION is currently having the material analyzed at a lab in Santiago de Chile. (Editor's Note: Senor Fuenzalida can be reached at this telephone number (56 2) 555-4011.) A "metallic sphere" was seen recently hovering over the town of Pedehue, where NASA has a satellite tracking facility. In December 1996, people in Puerto Williams, a seaport town on Isla Navarino, an island just south of Tierra del Fuego, at the southernmost tip of South America, saw a fleet of metallic saucers passing to the north. One observer counted 200 objects. Two months earlier, in October 1996, two daylight discs were seen by several people living in Portenir, a city on the Strait of Magellan, 240 kilometers (150 miles) northwest of Puerto Williams. (Muchas gracias a Luis Sanchez Perry para las noticias de Chile.) TWO SIGHTINGS IN THE DETROIT AREA On Friday, February 7, 1997, at 8 p.m., a man in South Lyon, Michigan, 15 miles (24 kilometers) west of downtown Detroit spotted a UFO passing overhead. On January 21, 1997, a young man living in Grosse Pointe, Michigan, 12 miles (20 kilometers) north of Detroit, saw "a red light over Lake St. Clair." He said the UFO "came ashore at Grosse Pointe Woods (state park), moving across the sky at a moderate speed." The object landed behind a grove of evergreen trees, and he saw no more of it. (Email Interview) UFO OVER PUTNAM VALLEY A woman from Mahopac, New York reported a sighting there on Sunday, February 9, 1997, at 8 p.m. "My two children and I saw a strange light coming towards us, which turned into a flying vehicle of some kind. It passed over the tree nearest us." There was "no sign of turbulence as the object passed over. It vanished into the sky afterward. None of us were ever believers before. We weren't frightened, but now we're wondering what happened." (Email Interview) UFO AND RAF TORNADO SEEN TOGETHER OVER NORTH SEA On Wednesday, February 12, 1997, at 2:55 p.m., a man walking near the seashore in Mablethorpe, Lincolnshire, England saw something unusual. What he described as "a small triangular craft" was flying low over the North Sea, escorted by an RAF Tornado jet interceptor. According to Timothy Matthews of the Lancashire UFO Society, the UFO "had no visible means of propulsion and was 'operating independently' of the Tornado. At first LUFOS believed that the UFO had taken off from RAF Coningsby, but, Matthews added, "On reflection it is quite possible that the (mystery) aircraft flew from Warton across the country out to ACMI, the British Aerospace test site in the North Sea." (Many thanks to Tim Matthews for this news story.) (Editor's Note: Mablethorpe is 25 miles (40 kilometers) north of Skegness, the site of the big UFO flap of November 1996.) ORANGE UFOs SEEN IN FLORIDA Tanya Kimbrough, 30, of Dunnellon, Florida reports, "We have seen some very strange objects in the sky, some bright star-like objects that suddenly move from a stationary position and then land in the woods. We have seen objects that are orange and travelling at very great speed." Dunnellon (population 1,490) is located on Florida Highway 41, about midway between the city of Ocala and the Gulf of Mexico. (Email Interview) FUN UFO WEBSITES Warning! One of the sites we mentioned last week no longer exists. It's http://www.schmitzware.com/iufog/iufog-healincs.shmtl But there are plenty more for you to visit. Such as Vickie's NESUFOIG page located at http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/8143/ Waldemar Urminsky has a great site over there in Bratislava, Slovakia, headquarters of the group Asociacia UFO Badatelov (UFOBADAT). If you can read Slovakian, drop in at this address-- http://zero.rainside.sk/~wuma/ufobadat.htm Ronald Vanschoren has a great site with article on strange lunar phenomena and Roswell. The articles are in Dutch and you'll find them at http://www.tornado.be/~r.vanschoren English-speaking readers, don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, with its up-to-the-minute news and features. You'll find it at this address- http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm And, for back issues of UFO ROUNDUP, check out our site at http://ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts Looks like we had a full plate this week. Happy reading from "the paper that covers the saucers-- UFO ROUNDUP." UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any stories from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and editor by name and list the date of the newsletter in which the item appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Asteroids From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:21:00 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:38:10 -0500 Subject: Asteroids The Washington Post ran a fairly good article (front page) on asteroids possibly impacting earth today, February 16th.(The article ran today--not the asteroids impacting earth...sounded like a warning on seond read) It's available online at http://www.washingtonpost.com The one thing I did not agree with is that both this article and the recent Discovery Program "Three Minutes To Impact" imply, in fact state,that there is no documentation that indicates anyone has ever been killed by an asteroid. Aug. 16, 1951, in the middle of a rash of meteorites striking earth (which according to La Paz was unprecidented in modern times) the New York Times reported that Iranian Newspapers were reporting 12 deaths, 19 injuries, numerous livestock deaths and the destruction of 62 homes from a "rain of meteorites". Doesn't that seem like an awful lot of damage from some meteorites? Pam
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: Eye-coverings - man-made? From: DRudiak@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 18:22:40 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:35:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Eye-coverings - man-made? In a message dated 97-02-16 09:13:00 EST, you write: >In Santilli's autopsy footage, the removal of the opaque eye lenses is >quite convincing (they have the filmy quality I associate with the soft >contact lenses I wear). If this is a fake, could it be possible that >these lenses are a terrestrially manufactured product? Maybe optics >comapnies like Bausch and Lomb manufacture similar "full-eye" lenses >for use in industrial/laboratory conditions. I've never heard of such >a thing, but it might be worth looking into. > >Also, did soft contact lenses even exist in 1947? Contact lenses have a rather interesting history. As far as anyone knows, the idea was first suggested by Leonardo Da Vinci around 1508, who made some drawings. Rene Descartes also suggested the idea in 1636, and made a drawing of an elongated, fluid-filled tube resting on the cornea (not terribly practical). Thomas Young and Sir John Herschel also described the principle in 1801 and 1823. The first actual contact lenses were credited to A. Eugen Fick, who wrote about them in a treatise called "A Contact Spectacle" in 1888. Fick apparently manufactured glass lenses that fit both on the cornea (corneal contacts) and the surrounding white schlera (schleral contact lenses). Fick also made subsequent devices, for trial on himself and others, using casts of human cadaver eyes. In the same year, E. Kalt also described using glass corneal lenses for correcting refractive errors, but were also used as a treatment for eyes that were damaged by severe lid scarring. Plastic C.L.'s were first described in the 1930's, but didn't begin manufacture until 1947. More widespread use didn't begin until the 1950's. Most C.L.s made of glass before then were schleral types which fit over a large portion of the eye. These were better able to support the weight of the glass. Schleral lenses are still used in movies (for really gross or weird looking eyes as in monster or sci-fi films), by some athletes (like water poloists), and in certain pathological conditions of the eye in which ordinary corneal lenses won't work. Soft lenses were first experimented with in the late 1950's in Czechoslovakia, but didn't reach this country until 1964. Results were initially disappointing. Modern soft C.L's didn't really begin to take off until the 1970s with the development of improved polymers and manufacturing techniques. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: Devereux-Rutkowski: EL/TST Debate From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 97 23:28:11 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:37:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Devereux-Rutkowski: EL/TST Debate Hi Paul Just re-read your long reply to Rutkowski ... he certainly seems to have misjudged matters on many counts. BTW ... I was intrigued by your comment... >When we were doing our work in Wales, a certain person in the >Edinburgh Seismological Unit (who shall remain nameless) told me >that when he retired, he would write a book on the LP- seismic >connection. "You should see what we have here," he said, >tauntingly! .... that wouldn't be Roger Musson would it? Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." Charles Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Experts Find Fatal Asteroid Clue From: Ndunlks@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 01:08:03 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:39:16 -0500 Subject: Experts Find Fatal Asteroid Clue -> SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List By PAUL RECER .c The Associated Press WASHINGTON (Feb. 16) - Scientists who drilled core samples from the ocean bed said Sunday they have found ''smoking gun'' evidence that a huge asteroid smashed into the Earth 65 million years ago and probably killed off the dinosaurs. ''We've got the smoking gun,'' said Richard D. Norris, leader of an international ocean drilling expedition that probed the Atlantic Ocean floor in search of asteroid evidence. ''It is proof positive of the impact.'' Norris said the expedition recovered three drill samples that have the unmistakable signature of a asteroid impact about 65 million years ago. The drill cores include a thin brownish section that the scientists called the ''fireball layer'' because it is thought to contain bits of the asteroid itself. ''These neat layers of sediment bracketing the impact have never been found in the sea before,'' Norris said in a telephone interview. ''It is proof positive of the impact.'' The scientists, working on the drill ship Joides Resolution, spent five weeks off the east coast of Florida collecting cores from the ocean floor in about 8,500 feet of water. The team penetrated up to 300 feet beneath the sea bed, drilling past sediments laid down at the time of the dinosaur extinction. Norris said the deepest layers contain fossil remains of many animals and came from a healthy ''happy-go-lucky ocean'' just before the impact. Just above this is a layer with small green glass pebbles, thought to be ocean bottom material instantly melted by the massive energy release of the impact. Next was a rusty brown layer which Norris said is thought to be from the ''vaporized remains of the asteroid itself.'' The heat of the impact would have been so intense, said Norris, that the stony asteroid would have instantly been reduced to vapor and thrown high into the sky, some of it perhaps even reaching outer space. It then snowed down, like a fine powder, all over the globe. Norris said brown deposits, like that in the core sample, have been found elsewhere and they have a high content of iridium, a chemical signature of asteroids. Just above the brown layer, is a two inches of gray clay with strong evidence of a nearly dead world. ''It was not a completely dead ocean, but most of the species that are seen before (early in the core sample) are gone,'' said Norris. ''There are just some very minute fossils. These were the survivors in the ocean.'' This dead zone lasted about 5,000 years, said the scientist, and then the core samples showed evidence of renewed life. ''It is amazing how quickly the new species appeared,'' he said. Although the dinosaur-killing impact occurred in the southern Gulf of Mexico, Norris went to the Atlantic Ocean, near the edge of the continental shelf. He said that the violence of the impact, followed by huge waves, roiled the Gulf of Mexico so much that it is unlikely to find clear core samples there. He said the theorized that waves from the impact would have washed completely across Florida, depositing debris in the Atlantic. And that's where he found it. Robert W. Corell, assistant director for Geosciences of the National Science Foundation, said the core samples are the strongest evidence yet that an asteroid impact caused the extinction. ''In my view, this is the most significant discovery in geosciences in 20 years,'' he said, also in a telephone interview. ''This gives us the facts of what happen to life back then. I would certainly call it the smoking gun.'' The ship bearing the core samples returned to port on Friday and the NSF announced the findings Sunday, coincidentally just hours before NBC was to air a movie about a fictional asteroid hitting the Earth and causing widespread destruction. ''The impact of the asteroid featured in tonight's NBC-TV show is peanuts compared to the real thing faced by the world 65 million years ago,'' said Corell. Geologist Walter Alvarez of the University of California, Berkeley, first proposed in 1980 that the dinosaurs disappeared from fossil history suddenly because of a massive asteroid hit. At first, the theory had few supporters. But in 1989, scientists found evidence of a huge impact crater north of Chicxulub, on Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. Later studies found evidence of debris washed out of the Gulf by waves that went inland as far as what is now Arkansas. It's now widely believed that an asteroid of six to 12 miles in diameter smashed to Earth at thousands of miles an hour. It instantly gouged a crater 150 to 180 miles wide. That energy release was more powerful than if all of the nuclear weapons ever made were set off at once, said Norris. Billions of tons of soil, sulphur and rock vapor were lifted into the atmosphere, blotting out the sun. Temperatures around the globe plunged. Up to 70 percent of all species, including the dinosaurs, perished. Among the survivors, scientists believe, were small mammals that, over millions of years, evolved into many new species, including humans. AP-NY-02-16-97 2026EST - - - - - - - - - - Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #11 From: Mark Fussell <mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 00:31:57 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:40:26 -0500 Subject: The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #11 Welcome to The Crop Circle Connector Mailing List #11. (Members 1078 on 16-2-97) WHAT'S NEW on the Crop Circle Connector http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html New advert of the SC, The Monthly Journal of Crop Circles and Beyond. No 61 February 1997 is OUT NOW! New advert for 'The Spiral' The Crop Circle Newsletter for Wiltshire. Number 15 February 1997 is OUT NOW! New UFO Reality link for issue 6 February/March 1997 OUT NOW! The Sussex Cerealogical Bonanza 2 Conference advert. Saturday 26TH April at the The Scout Center, Station Road, Burgess Hill, West Sussex. New book titled 'Crop Circles of Wessex' published by The Wessex Series. An introductory publication into the phenomenon. All the best Mark and Stuart -- .888. Mark fussell mailto:mjfussell@marque.demon.co.uk _db__8',`8__db_ The Crop Circle Connector Web Site at: qp 8.`.8 qp http://www.marque.demon.co.uk/connector/connector.html `888' Subscribe news:alt.paranormal.crop-circles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 04:43:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:42:52 -0500 Subject: Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:08:15 -0800 From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: COSMIC TOP SECRET Jan wrote that "strictly speaking there is no such thing as a Cosmic Top Secret clearance" - and proceeded to detail some interesting material which is publicly available. I did not use the term 'clearance' - just the term "classification" - which is used to this day by NATO communications traffic. Whether a briefing paper entitled 'The Assessment' ever existed is another matter. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine (UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 The Mother of All UFO Link Pages is now on-line! From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 20:48:01 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:41:35 -0500 Subject: The Mother of All UFO Link Pages is now on-line! If you haven't seen it yet, check it out our "UFO Master Index" at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo As the name implies, we intend this to be the master link guide to all UFO content on the web. Instead of a simple list of links, this is a database of hundred of separate listings grouped by topic, people and media. There are presently 800+ links and 200+ ufologists listed here, and we expect the numbers to grow into the thousands. Large UFO link pages have been attempted before, but this one is different, mainly because we don't maintain it -- you do! Anyone can add or change a link, subject only to later review by our moderator. Our database is a tree structure similar to Yahoo, but it is tailored specifically to the UFO and paranormal fields, where investigations hinge as much on personalities as on lights in the sky. We give you more categories to choose from and more ways to cross-reference information than any other index. We also provide mechanisms for user comments and for "reply links" allowing claims and investigations to be associated together. We do not provide storage for web pages (apart from archived mailing lists), but we do provide many ways to access existing pages. We want to provide the information you need when you need it and to assure that no research, once placed on the web, is ever forgotten. To serve this mission, we provide an environment that is refreshingly free of graphics, music, moving animations, ideology or anything else that might distract from your research. If none of this excites you right now, it will. Because there are so many options available in this new database, it might take a while to understand how to effectively use them. Here are a few examples of what is available: -- See our UFO organizations page at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/org. Here you will find 90+ organizations that have web sites, sorted by location. We don't just list the English language pages, but pages in every language and in every part of the world. Anyone can add a new organization using the "Add Link" option at the bottom of the page. Here, you enter a URL, a title and an optional description as you would expect, but you also have many other available options as well. In this case, you can enter a country, state and city or region to the organization, assuring that it will be sorted correctly on the location list. For all index pages, the Add Link page appears the same, offering you a wide variety of options: publication information, event date, location -- even GPS coordinates if that has some relevance. You can enter as little or as much information as you have. The displayed entry is then sorted according to what you entered. After you create a new entry, it is displayed immediately on the index page, but it is also queued to the moderator for review within the next few days. To avoid the chaos of irrelevant submissions, the moderator has the power to delete, move or change any entry. The moderator does not "censor" anyone for their views, but he does evaluate (a) whether the new entry is directly relevant to the page, and (b) whether the entry contributes new information that has not been linked before. The moderator wants facts and "content", not empty opinions, although he does not try to decide whether the given facts are true. Each page has its own criteria for what is relevant, and a basic description is usually given at the top. -- Every ufologist has their own link page. For example, conspiracy theorist Bill Cooper can be found at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cooper. Like other URLs on our site, this address is a simple one that should be both easy to remember and permanent. Link to this address and you can be assured that you will always find the most complete Cooper references available (provided other users add them). This page contains links to the "official" Cooper home page, web searches for Cooper, a Cooper portrait and user-supplied links to Cooper-related documents -- be they pro, con or neutral. The page itself is neither supportive of Cooper nor critical of him. It is simply a list of links. If someone is involved in a conflict with this person, both parties have equal opportunity to post their links here. We do not pass judgement on the content of these documents, apart from confirming that they are relevant. Only the author and the person who stores a page on their server are responsible for its content. On any of our pages, new claims can be posted as main entries. Then, secondary "reply links" can be added that lead to investigations, rebuttals or supporting documents. Readers now have access not only to the original claim, but also to any interactions that went on afterwards -- perhaps debunking, supporting or analyzing it. It is up to the reader to decide who is right or wrong, but at least he has the information he needs to make that judgment. -- See our topical page for "Moon/Mars Structures" at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/topic/marsface/. The topic here is the Face on Mars and any other claimed artificial structures on the planets or moons of our solar system (apart from Earth). Here you will find a list of some of the ufologists actively involved in the field -- both supporters and skeptics. This information is automatically cross-referenced from the ufologist pages. Here you will also find links to external indexes, like the Yahoo page on the Cydonia region. Our Master Index is all-inclusive. We do not compete with others but instead link those resources directly to our own. The links that end up on this page depend largely on what web surfers think is important enough to post here. Thus, individual users have a lot of power. While we are wary of people who might abuse our system and may have to establish new safeguards to discourage it, we are committed to providing an open forum with as few restrictions as possible. -- See our UFO Sightings page at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/topic/sighting/. Here, existing sighting reports from around the world are listed both by date and location. If this page eventually becomes too big to work with, the webmaster will split it into separate pages based on criteria that have yet to be decided. -- See our UFO Conferences page at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/media/conf/. Here you will find listings for conferences and major public events, both future and past. It is intended that conference entries will be retained even after the event takes place. This gives people the opportunity to post permanent reply links regarding what went on there. -- On our Add Link pages, we support not only links but also references to documents that are not on the net (e.g. "books", etc.). We cannot give you the full content of every resource, but at least we can tell you that it exists and where to find it. Thus, this database can index virtually all known UFO resources on our present planet. The amount of UFO material available on the web is immense, and only a tiny fraction of it is indexed on our site so far. So get to it! We encourage anyone to add links to these pages. Whenever you stumble upon an interesting document, please make sure it has an entry on the appropriate index page. The only thing we ask is that the document be somehow "interesting" -- not just a repeat of information already linked but something that expands our base of data. FINANCIAL SUPPORT How does the Area 51 Research Center pay for such a complex system? (Why a government grant, of course -- not!) Obviously, this has involved many months of programming and a significant commitment of future labor to monitor the submissions -- not to mention the cost of internet services. We intend to support this massive index by inserting unobtrusive advertizing at the bottom of some pages for the UFO books we sell through our catalog. Unlike the link pages themselves, our advertizing is not neutral. We sell only books that we feel qualified to evaluate and can personally recommend to others, and we will not sell advertizing to any outside party. To make sure the advertizing is clearly differentiated from the rest of the index page, it always appears with a purple background (on modern browsers) and only at the bottom of the page, so it never interferes with browsing. You don't have to look at it, but it might offer something relevant to the current topic. We are far from making money, and we do not plan to do better than breaking even. If we ever do show a significant profit, that capital will be put back into the website to fund additional services. The mission is everything! There may be a few bugs to work out, and we are always open to enhancements, but the basic structure of the database is now in place, and readers are invited to explore it. If you would like to experiment with our Add Link system without any risk of damage, visit our practice page at http://www.ufomind.com/org/practice. Here you can add and modify entries to your heart's content, and you will begin to see how powerful the system can be. Glenn Campbell +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Odyssey File Request Processor - Complete File From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:48:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 05:48:00 -0500 Subject: Odyssey File Request Processor - Complete File The Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network now supports an Internet-based File Request capability. What does that mean? -------------------- It means that you can now request Odyssey files using only an Internet e-mail message and without long distance charges. How does it work? ----------------- First, you write an e-mail message with the correctly formatted request (see below) and send it to: <sjpowell@access.digex.net>. Next, wait for the e-mail confirmation message that your request was received. Lastly, wait for your new file (or an error message if the request was incorrectly formatted) to arrive in your InBox. All requested files are uuencoded using MIME. Simply save the message as a file with an .MME extension, uudecode that file to get your requested file. (Most newer e-mail readers will automatically decode the file for you.) How do I format the file request? --------------------------------- The Odyssey File Request message is just like any other e-mail message you might write and send. From your Mail Reader select New Message. Address the message to: <sjpowell@access.digex.net>. Now, you have to write the Subject line very carefully. Here are the rules. Subject must contain: (OFR) (email.address) (ffffffff.eee) The three sections are: A) Action Code. B) Return Address. C) Filename. A) Action Code. The Action Code is used to specify a remote action at the Odyssey Fringe Science BBS. To initiate an Odyssey File Request action the Action Code is 'OFR' (no quotes). The Action Code must be enclosed in parentheses, it is not case-sensitive. Correct File Request Action Codes: (OFR) (ofr) B) Return Address. Use one space to separate the Action Code from the Return Address. The Return Address is your Internet e-mail address, it can contain no spaces. This must be your complete e-mail address. Do not bracket your e-mail address with '<' or '>'. Your e-mail address must be enclosed in parentheses. Example: (sjpowell@access.digex.net) C) Filename. Use one space to separate the Return Address from the Filename. This is the full name of the file you want to request. Use only the complete filename. The filename must be from 1 to 8 characters long, followed by a '.' (period), followed by the extension. The extension must be no more or no less than 3 characters long. The filename must be enclosed in parentheses. Example: (coolfile.zip) You may leave the body of the e-mail message blank (the Odyssey File Request Processor does not read it). Now send your message. Frequently Asked Questions: --------------------------- Can I request ANY file? Of course not, only publically available files on the BBS are available through the Odyssey File Request Processor. Can I use wildcards in the requested Filename? No way. How many files can I request? As many as you like, but try to be considerate of others and not request too many at a time. How long will it take to get my file? Usually between 24 and 72 hours. I want a particular file right now, how can I get it? Call the Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network BBS long distance at 410-321-7461 to download the file. How do I get a list of the files available? Send an Odyssey File Request for the listing. Here they are by category: Complete Listing: AOEINEOA.ZIP Alien Abductions: ABDFILES.ZIP Assassinations: ASNFILES.ZIP CSICOP Files: CSIFILES.ZIP Book Reviews, etc.: BOKFILES.ZIP Crop Circles, UGMs: CIRFILES.ZIP UFO Crash/Recovery: CRSFILES.ZIP Cryptozoology: CRPFILES.ZIP FOIA Files: FOIFILES.ZIP Government Stuff: GOVFILES.ZIP International UFO Sightings: NTFILES.ZIP Mars Face, etc.: MRSFILES.ZIP Misc. UFO Stuff: MUFFILES.ZIP Mutilation Stuff: MUTFILES.ZIP Parapsychology: PSIFILES.ZIP Photographs, Movies, etc.: PICFILES.ZIP Political Stuff: POLFILES.ZIP Science Stuff: SCIFILES.ZIP Channeling, New Age Stuff: CHAFILES.ZIP USA UFO Sightings: USAFILES.ZIP
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:50:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:13:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 11:02:06 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >"Reasonable doubt" is a tenant of law that exist only in American >criminal courts. Santilli has been very careful to include >statements and disclaimers to prevent himself from falling victim >to criminal law. Civil law is a different matter, and a different >standard is used. Preponderance of evidence. Ray's real threat >has always been civil action. > >There are several laws, both actionable criminally and civilly, >which cover lying to one's fellow man. The most commonly used law >is Fraud, of which a form exists in all 50 states. I agree that >criminal law would be difficult to prove, however. And the problem >with a civil case is the issue of damages. > >After spending thousands of dollars getting Santilli to appear in >the state that the suit is filed (And without false or fraudulent >means), filing suit, preparing a defense, and taking the case to >trial, the end result would be a maximum return on investment equal >to three times your damages. (I think pain and suffering and punitive >damages would be exceedingly hard to prove.) Wow, 50 bucks for a >videotape? A max of a couple hundred bucks? Hardly seems worth it. >The only thing truly worthwhile that might come out of such a move >would be the discovery process. If something "interesting" was >discovered. However, Santilli is probably smart enough to offer to >settle out of court and prevent the discovery process from occurring. As I'd said in my earlier post, I'm not a lawyer and appreciate the clarification. The key to someone taking Santilli to task would be to show that they have been harmed, and that there was an intention to harm. But, as you note, this is both difficult to prove and expensive. Advertising, in general, often skirts the line to entice buyers, and several Federal agencies have been set up to help protect the gullible public from unfounded claims. My point regarding no law against lying is a bit more subtle. Many years ago while managing a Radio Shack, I sold telephones to the public to install in their homes themselves. This was prior to the FCC regulatory change that permitted such actions, and the phone company was not too pleased that rebuilt phones were being made available. I had a telephone company employee as a customer, who insisted that it was illegal to install your own phone. One day, as he was leaving I asked why the phone company had started the rumour that they monitored each line to determine the number of "ringers" on each one, when it was truly not feasible to do that in a metropolitan area (this was prior to the use of computer technology, when touch tone phones were just coming into vogue). He just smiled, and as he was leaving through the door, he turned around and said, "There's no law against lying". This may have been a simplistic view of the legalities involved, but probably accurate in the case of the telephone company. What had been rumoured to be true was technically feasible, but the effort and manpower required would have been too great to be economic. But the public, in general, wasn't aware of what would be required. >>But the concept of profiting from statements or allegations, >>that have little or no background that can be checked, is >>certainly not new to UFOlogy. As an example, there are many >>specific allegations included in William Cooper's book, which has >>sold thousands of copies and helped him to become a speaker on >>the conference circuit, and many of those can't be checked >>against the official record. What about the allegations >>presented by Robert Dean, William Hamilton III, Richard Boylan, >>and many others. >Not everyone refuses to questions the unfounded allegations of >others. Unfortunately, when we do ask for simple proof we are often >ridiculed, labeled disinformation agents, or otherwise shunned. >And heaven forbid we catch someone in a lie, then the whole world >comes crashing down and the spin doctors go into HIGH gear. I must assume then that Sanilli appears to be an easier target because he has fewer advocates to come to his defence. . . .<g> >>I've expressed the opinion on several occasions that I really >>don't think that it is Ray's interest to validate the film, >>regardless of whether it's real or not. If it is a fake, then >>such testing would result in fewer sales of his product. If, on >>the other hand, Ray releases information that prove to be the >>"smoking gun" that showing once and for all that the military has >>been involved in a conspiracy of silence, Ray's film segments >>would become nothing more than a footnote in history as the color >>glossy photos, reports, and full length films are forced into the >>open by an angry public and Congress. Again, his sales would >>plummet and his role in this would fade to obscurity. > >I agree. Despite Bob Shells claims to the contrary, Santilli is >not acting like someone who wants to be forgotten. Hell, he and >his company are better known today than prior to this happening. >Draw your own conclusions. Indeed, his company is better known, but not for the Alien Autopsy footage. His company was involved in the production of material for the recent Beatles Anthology release, as well as numerous other music related projects for which his company is known. To think that the "Autopsy" footage is a significant percentage of his profit margin is inaccurate. Ray lost control of his first video, and numerous pirated editions were distributed around the world. The issue of legal action had been mentioned earlier, and there is also the question of whether or not Ray would want to take someone to task for copyright infringement. Again, the potential return would have to weighed against the costs, but I have reason to believe that he has considered such action. I find it strange that a hoaxer would draw attention to his creation by submitting it to a legal forum for ownership review and thus authentication. >The fact that the "hard" evidence matches the story of the >cameraman is hardly evidence at all, if the "cameraman's" story >was developed after the creation of the film. And my position has >always been that without evidence, we have an interesting theory. >And we have NO evidence. Hard or otherwise. Yes. All we have is an interesting story and theories that have been developed as a result of it. We have no hard evidence to prove that the "cameraman" exists or that the "film" is from 1947, or that "film" actually exists at all. We have a series of interesting images that so far have not been explained. Could they have been faked using current special effects technigues, yes. Have we found a flaw in the video to show that is the case, no. We know what is possible, but not something that is proven. The debate that is going on here is interesting, but unfortunately fruitless. We need more information to go on, and so far that isn't forthcoming. We have so many comments and statements that have been retold by so many times that they have become a myth unto themselves. Many of us have been communication on this behind the scenes for more than a year and a half, and the discussions haven't changed one bit. Those who have performed analysis have trickled out information that has been developed, but without the "cameraman" or the "film", we are all just "blowing smoke". On the other hand, it keeps me from playing traffic. . . . .<g> Take care, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 17 Alfred's Odd Ode #93 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 06:12:54 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:14:59 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #93 Apology to MW #93 (For February 17, 1997) Humankind living in a ring up in space, Built from some near earth asteroids. In forested barrels of slow spin's for gravity. . . Humans released from an earthbound depravity! The future will be, and we'll find you will see, It was space should determine our pace. Suicide swells in the ranks of our youth. They say that the blame lacks morality. "It's loss of God's message in over-sexed times"; "It's the loss of traditional thought will cause crime"! But what they are missing in elitist wrist kissing, They extrude while deforming the truth. Learning is sacrificed on un-funded alters. We can't tell the truth about sex. We label, and hobble, and stigmatize students -- Newt, and his bunch of republican mutants. . . And Bill's no more able, as he rides TV's cable, He's the faultier of societies falter. We should look to the sky, and pay for it too. There's enough wealth in our shared kingdom. Milk CEO's like the rich milk this land; Reverse our decline, and take the right stand. We'll find in amusement, through elitist bemusement That we *all* brew a fine, able crew. Let's get on with the business of conquest -- our race. Let's move from our tortured rock -- let it rest. Spend money in classrooms -- won't _need_ dittoed prisons. Tell the *truth* to our kids, so they make right decisions. Then we'll not be perplexed by sad end to the test, Of our race to spun stations in space. Lehmberg@snowhill.com Talk about getting belted by a big asteroid . . . Would it not then make perfect sense to seed nearby space with as much "stuff" as is possible to put up there out of HARMS way;. . . Be nice to have the 21'st century be able to fly back down to you after you have been bombed back to the stone age. Asteroids _or_ 'nukes, but that's the Alien View. -- "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. No one saw the near miss in the sky behind them, as all gloating eyes were on the flames.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: Asteroids From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 09:03:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:44:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Asteroids >Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:21:00 -0500 (EST) >From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Asteroids > Pam observed that: >Aug. 16, 1951, in the middle of a rash of meteorites striking >earth (which according to La Paz was unprecidented in modern >times) the New York Times reported that Iranian Newspapers >were reporting 12 deaths, 19 injuries, numerous livestock deaths >and the destruction of 62 homes from a "rain of meteorites". >Doesn't that seem like an awful lot of damage from some meteorites? > >Pam It wouldn't today. In fact that may be what Clinton is up to what with all the secret space goings own. Can you say I `a told `a you so? ~Pat~ ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://pwp.value.net/ufomus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Dr. Who on time?) From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 12:48:54 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:48:03 -0500 Subject: Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Dr. Who on time?) One of the most interesting hits on my page has been: index2.shtml: 01/30/97 13:57:36 CST peo3.nosc.mil 128.49.40.158 >From which the following URL is derived... http://www.nosc.mil Have a look & enjoy! :) ~Pat~ ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://pwp.value.net/ufomus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: 'Libel' From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@BrunNet.net> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 17:05:29 PST Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:43:21 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' Concerning Andy Roberts charge re my libel suit, he is off the wall. I sued the Manchester Evening News and Jenny and Bufora, (since she was acting in her role as their director of research) for defamation in a long and very nasty article appearing on a Saturday before my Sunday lecture in Manchester. There was no Sunday paper in which an apology could be published. She initially tried to blame the newspaper. We obtained copy of the letter she had sent the paper which was even more defamatory then the article. An out of court settlement was reached and a full apology was published. Jenny and I had only met twice and had no dispute. There are laws about defamation. A bunch of misguided UK people tried to make it a free speech issue (it never was) and raised money to help Jenny... all the while misrepresenting the particulars of the case. Even now, though touting free speech, they made it impossible for solicitor Harry Harris, who handled the case for me, to speak at a recent UK conference.. Free speech doesn'tmean freedom to reveal state secrets, incite a riot, or defame a person. The best defense against libel is truth. Jenny had none on her side. She had every opportunity to apologize and would not.. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: Experts Find Fatal Asteroid Clue From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 17 Feb 97 10:42:32 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:45:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Experts Find Fatal Asteroid Clue >From: Ndunlks@aol.com >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 01:08:03 -0500 (EST) >To: iufo@world.std.com >Subject: IUFO: Experts Find Fatal Asteroid Clue In spite of evidence of an asteroid impact, there are serious problems with the contention that this caused the mass extinction 65 million years ago in the way the geologists have hypothesized. The problems are not in the species which died out, but in those which did not. Not all dinosaurs were killed off at that time. One group, from which modern birds descended, survived. Some mammals survived. Crocodilians survived. A broad array of amphibians survived. Lizards and snakes survived. Turtles survived. Tuataras survived. In the oceans, quite a number of groups survived. The factor leading to survival was not cold tolerance, since some of the groups which survived are tropical and do not tolerate cold well at all. The factor leading to survival was not physical size, since both small and large creatures survived. There is little question that the asteroid did hit as described. So now the problem is not to account for the extinction, but to account for the survivors. The range of types of survivors suggests that th extended "nuclear winter" hypothesis is seriously flawed. Actually, the extermination would be better accounted for by an INCREASE in temperature following the impact. The problem is that most of the people studying this are geologists, and they are not fully aware of the biological aspects of the problem. Bob Shell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:01:01 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:46:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 07:50:39 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >>>I've expressed the opinion on several occasions that I really >>>don't think that it is Ray's interest to validate the film, >>>regardless of whether it's real or not. If it is a fake, then >>>such testing would result in fewer sales of his product. If, on >>>the other hand, Ray releases information that prove to be the >>>"smoking gun" that showing once and for all that the military has >>>been involved in a conspiracy of silence, Ray's film segments >>>would become nothing more than a footnote in history as the color >>>glossy photos, reports, and full length films are forced into the >>>open by an angry public and Congress. Again, his sales would >>>plummet and his role in this would fade to obscurity. >>I agree. Despite Bob Shells claims to the contrary, Santilli is >>not acting like someone who wants to be forgotten. Hell, he and >>his company are better known today than prior to this happening. >>Draw your own conclusions. >Indeed, his company is better known, but not for the Alien Autopsy footage. > His company was involved in the production of material for the recent >Beatles Anthology release, as well as numerous other music related projects >for which his company is known. To think that the "Autopsy" footage is a >significant percentage of his profit margin is inaccurate. Ray lost >control of his first video, and numerous pirated editions were distributed >around the world. The issue of legal action had been mentioned earlier, >and there is also the question of whether or not Ray would want to take >someone to task for copyright infringement. Again, the potential return >would have to weighed against the costs, but I have reason to believe that >he has considered such action. I find it strange that a hoaxer would draw >attention to his creation by submitting it to a legal forum for ownership >review and thus authentication. I have never doubted Ray's ability or knowledge or fame in the music video industry. However, that knowledge is not as disiminated as his existances, as an individual, has become concerning this autopsy video. Fame and profits are two differant things, and I have never mantained that Ray became rich off the Autopsy. Only famous. As to his copyright claims, he runs a serious legal risk. While it is clear that the copyright violations make Ray the most damaged individual in this case, it would require Ray to provide the film for verification. Either it is what he says it is, and he becomes a foriegn person holding classified US military material and selling that material for profit (Ray Loses) or it is a hoax, and Ray wins, but faces a class action lawsuit from everyone who bought the video, lawsuits from the various people who purchased TV rights, and so on. Notice that Ray has not submitted anything to a legal forum. Talking about litigation and persuing litigation is two differant things. Not to mention that since Ray's own story is that the film was paid for and commissioned by the US Military, those in the united states who bootlegged the video have fairly strong ground related to intent. They can honestly say they didn't think they were violating copyright, since the provedence of the film would have placed it as copyrighted by the US Government, and hence public domain. I'd like to see Ray try to enforce the copyright of the original video. It might, finally, provide us with some answers to nagging questions. -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 15:04:13 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:51:23 -0500 Subject: Re: 'COSMIC TOP SECRET' (was Is 'Dr.' Lee Shargel >Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:08:15 -0800 >From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: COSMIC TOP SECRET Jan Aldrich wrote: >Bob Dean has made a second career of having once COSMIC TOP >SECRET access. That and a dollar will get you cup of coffee. >In my 25+ years in the military I have never heard anyone who >has left a European assignment say he has a COSMIC TOP SECRET >clearance. Hi Jan, I've never understood the popularity that Bob "Trust Me" Dean has achieved on the UFO lecture circuit. A friend of mine describes him as an affable Bill Cooper. I think that says it all. Regards, Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Conference UpDate From: changleska wakan wicasan <changleska@geocities.com> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:17:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:50:16 -0500 Subject: Conference UpDate Hello again, I am passing on further information on the two upcoming conferences. Any questions, e-mail me or better yet get in touch with the contact people listed below. As always, if you do not wish to receive these announcements, please let me know and I will take your name off right away. I apologize in advance if you do not wish to be receiving these. Thank you. Mitakuye Oyasin, Changleska Wakan Wicasan ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (Updates, Additions and Changes Announcement) NATIVE AMERICAN-STAR NATIONS CONFERENCES STAR FAMILY GATHERING San Diego, CA, Thursday through Sunday, March 13-16, 1997, 9 a.m.-10 p.m. Conference site: Bristol Court Hotel, 1055 First Avenue, San Diego, (619) 232-6141 Lakota spiritual advisor Standing Elk has announced that the Spirit has indicated that another Gathering/information-sharing by Native American Elders and Anglo specialists on the Star Nations be held on the Pacific Coast near the Spring Equinox. This Conference is to keep up the flow of information concerning the trials that Mother Earth is commencing, and about the imminent return of the Star People. Thus, the Star Family Conference is intended to maintain the momentum of developing awareness developed from the Star Knowledge Conference on the Great Plains last June, and from the Star Visions Conference held in the Rocky Mountains in November, 1996. Presenters include: Standing Elk (Dakota), Floyd Hand (Lakota), Wablesa (Lakota), Pathfinder (Cherokee/ Apache), Silver Star (Cherokee), Kachinas Kutenai (Apache), Scout Cloud Lee, Ed.D., Mary Thunder (Metis), Monica Medicine Wind, Grandmother Wind Rider (Mayan), Nestor Night Owl, Steven Blue Wolf, Jose Fernandez (Puerto Rico), Dr. Brian O'Leary (Astronaut Corps), Dr. Steven Greer (CSETI), Dr. Richard Boylan, Dr. Truman Wong (Pine Ridge), NATO/SHAPE Command Sergeant-Major Robert Dean, Lee Shargel (NASA), Chet Snow, Angela Brown-Miller, Ph.D., LCSW, Alex Collier, Bettye Binder, Marilyn Carlson, CHT (Yellow Hand), Paula Peterson, Lewis Martin and Erica Snyder, Jeanette Matacia, Tom Scere and Star Sparks. Conference registration: $175 (after Mar. 1, $200). Single day=$60. Contact Bristol Court Hotel directly for lodging; mention "Star Knowledge Conference" for $85 rate. Shuttle available from airport. Alternate lodging: Holiday Inn-Mission Bay (special Conference rate $69); the Comfort Inn-Mission Bay. For registration/information contact: Rev. Collette Fields (619) 474-0842, P.O. Box 1612, National City, CA 91951; [back-up: Marilyn Carlson (206)379-9624]. **************************************************************** Also, this summer plan for: STAR COUNCIL CONFERENCE of Native American Elders and selected non-Native Star People Specialists Rapid City, SD, Wednesday through Saturday, June 11-14, 1997 Conference site: Civic Center at Rapid City, the city closest to the sacred Black Hills. Presenters: Standing Elk (Lakota), Hun Bet Men (Mayan), Ed McGaa (Eagle Man), Galen Drapeau (Dakota), Nestor Night Owl, Marilyn Carlson, CHT (Yellow Hand), Dr. Richard Boylan, Leo Sprinkle, Ph.D. (invited), Steven Greer, M.D. (invited), Angela Brown-Miller, Ph.D., Joka Van Dieten, and others TBA. For information contact: Marilyn Carlson (206) 379-9624.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 'Vatican and ET' From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:10:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:49:08 -0500 Subject: 'Vatican and ET' From: The Electronic Telegraph" http://www.telegraph.co.uk 17 February 1997 American Association: Martian life will change God's image, says Vatican By Roger Highfield and Tom Leonard OUR image of God will have to change if evidence of alien life on Mars is confirmed by scientists, a Vatican astronomer told the world's largest general science meeting yesterday. The modern concept of an "anthropocentric" God may have to evolve into a broader entity to take account of the insights of any intelligent alien culture, said Dr Christopher Corbally, British vice-director of the Vatican Observatory in Arizona. "We need a proper sense of God, one derived in the dialogue between religion and science," he said in an address on the implications of Martian life to the American Association's annual meeting in Seattle. "While Christ is the first and the last word, the alpha and the omega spoken to humanity, it is not necessarily the only word spoken to the entire universe," he said. Dr Corbally went on to emphasise the need to "cope with any new phenomenon that science will bring". The discovery that the universe was populated by other intelligent species would not give humanity a sense of insignificance or fear but one of "being an integral part of a cosmic community", he added. "We would discover a church far beyond the confines of the Earth and of any narrow interpretation of the Bible or other scriptures." But Dr Corbally, a Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and a member of the American Astronomical Society, claimed that, if humanity was to find it was alone in the universe, "this would not bring hubris and pride but a sense of awe and responsibility". The Vatican Observatory, which is supported by the Pope, was set up near Rome in the 1930s but since 1981 has conducted most of its stargazing above the Steward Observatory at Tucson, Arizona. The observatory was established on the orders of Pope Leo XIII in 1891 to counteract accusations that the Church was opposed to scientific learning. Last August a group of experts stunned the scientific world with evidence that life may have once existed on Mars. Their analysis of a Martian meteorite concluded that microscopic life may have been the source of "apparent" fossils it held. The excited reaction to the suggestion of extra-terrestrial life had one prime implication, said Dr Corbally. "These reactions point to our need for a right relationship or dialogue between science and religion." Exploration was required to push back the frontiers of theology as well as science, he said. "The same urge to push back the boundaries of knowledge can bring new insights into traditional doctrines and questions. This exploration is what I do daily in my astronomical work. I find my preferred way of doing science is synthetic, starting with observations rather than analytic, starting with theories. So too, given an encounter with intelligent extra-terrestrial life." The Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches in Britain were sceptical about Dr Corbally's suggestions. A spokesman for the Church of England said: "As Christians, we believe God created the universe and everything in it. Dolphins and porpoises are understood to be intelligent creatures but they haven't changed our perception of God." The only possible sphere in which he could envisage the existence of life changing people's perceptions of God was in art where the Almighty has been represented historically as looking like a man, he added. A Roman Catholic Church spokesman said the Church had never interpreted the Old Testament as ruling out the possibility of life on other planets. He added: "Our understanding of the message of Christianity has always evolved and developed. That's not to say it has changed but just the way the message is understood and applied. "We have always believed that God created all things. If he created life elsewhere, then fair enough."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: Devereux-Rutkowski EL/TST Debate From: rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:35:27 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:52:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Devereux-Rutkowski EL/TST Debate Errol, Jan, and others: In an attempt to invoke closure to this debate, I am going to make a few comments then sit back and let the proponents continue with their fun. To cover all the bases, we could be at this debate for years. I particularly liked being accused of "omitting" certain points because there was no way to address all the issues in a forum such as this, and in short posts. Despite their opinion, I don't think that I or Jan or others have misjudged the TST and Paul's earth lights. There still is no scientific evidence supporting the various incarnations and theories. As I stated in all my posts, I don't disagree that there might be some EM effects creating some lights in the sky. What I and others disagree about is the way UFO data and seismic data are linked without any kind of cause or mechanism. Further, in teh case of Persinger, he definitely did misuse statistics and used way-off data to "prove" his case. Basically, we are left with a situation where undefined mechanisms are being used to explain an unidentified phenomenon, and that is very unsatisfying. Devereux *did* employ dowsers (and faith healers and all other kinds of techniques which scientists would find objectionable) when he was working with the Dragon Project, BTW. Reading EARTH MIND will show that. I never said that *he* did the dowsing, and it was delightful of him to defend himself and turn things around like that! And, calling my research and study of TST and earth lights "cursory" is also another interesting twisting of comments. I suppose that my numerous articles and papers don't count as detatiled research. A few points I must make: >Ahhh... if only it was, truly, constructive criticism. In any >case, Chris, you are so far out of the loop on current earth >lights research you are not in a position to comment on what >researchers are or are not doing. From what I can gather, you are >conceptually still at around 1983! For instance, you were not >present at the 1994 Hessdalen conference where earth lights >researchers, plasma physicists and other involved people from all >over the world gathered. That meeting of minds provided a quantum >leap in both literal and metaphorical terms. You just don't know That's true. My plane ticket and invitation to participate at the Hessdalen conference must have been lost in the mail. But I also was not invited to various crop circle conferences, and that does not detract from the point that my personal investigations and research into such phenomena are at odds with attendees of those events. If you're implying that I'm behind in my research, well, that could be true if you are referring specifically to your earth lights group's efforts, though I have read your books to date and read various articles in ufozines, so I can't quite understand your objections. >It is an evolving theory (theory as opposed to >hypothesis, incidentally, in that it can include mathematical >expression this has nothing to do with whether one accepts the >data the math is predicated on or otherwise). I myself think that >it may have some of its parameters wrong (unlike Chris, I think >Persinger's 6-month lag, for example, may be too *conservative* - >but, there you go, everyone to their opinion). Two points here. If the theory is still in its infancy, then it is not warranted to make statements that are not supported by scientific evidence. The problem is that one person's evidence may be unacceptable to others, so there is a problem in interpretion, too. >My colleagues and >I threw out piezo-electricity as a likely major mechanism (it >might play a support role in certain circumstances) in a paper in >*New Scientist* in 1983, and Persinger has likewise minimised the >liklihood of p-e as a major player. (I love the way Chris always >avoids giving his audience these important tidbits of >information! And *I* love the way you fail to note that I discuss *all* the various ideas that you and your colleagues have proposed during the years! Talk about selective quotation! It's *almost* as if you weren't reading my posts! > Tectonic mechanics >are indeed complex and poorly understood -- it is a limitation >we labour within. If this were not so, we'd have perfect >earthquake prediction by now, wouldn't we? And we wouldn't be >having this debate about EL, TST or whatnot. Chris, *we all >accept that there are as yet no definitive answers, and that some >ideas might be wrong*. That is the challenge and function of >research - surely you can see that? If you can't, I trust others >can. Wonderful - just wonderful. You are implying that I don't know the limitations and function of research. What I find most interesting is that you admit that tectonic mechanics ("Hand me that spanner, will you, Atlas?") are both complex and poorly understood, and yet you postulate that such non-understood mechanisms create luminous effects of scale and number that give rise to another complex and non-understood UFO phenomenon. >I thought his overview of the >then current situation with LP, EL, TST in the *Journal of UFO >Studies* (vol.2, 1990) to be masterly. Clear, balanced, polite, >sane and reasonable. ... just like others have described my *own* overview in response to his comments, in the *same* issue of that publication! Who is omitting things here? :) >(And this habit of yours, Chris, in pulling >in so-and-so who says Persinger is no good, a bad scientist, etc. >is somewhat offputting. You can always pull in someone to attack >another. This isn't evidence or rational debate.) That would be true if that was my only course. I stood alone here for a long time without any visible support. I published articles as sole author, spoke my mind and presented objective information when asked. I was accused of being narrow-minded in my view, and I thought it proper to note that I am not the only critic of your position. Seems rational enough to me. Or, is it that there have been so few vocal opponents of the TST and earth lights that when a dissenting voice does pop up, it is soundly trounced upon? I certainly feel like the still, small voice of he who noted that the emperor was indeed wearing no clothes. Imagine such blasphemy! >But what I was really trying to get at was why do you incessantly >go after Persinger, when there are other aspects of EL research >you could be discussing? And yet you never do. Why not look at >John Derr's work? Surely Derr, a leading USGS geologist and Head >of the Global Seismic Network, isn't unscientific and a con-man >too? Derr has scored some predictive successes, and has opened >some interesting correlations between LP reports and water >injection and pressure events. First implication: I don't know about Derr. Patently wrong, and anyone who has read my articles knows I discuss his research at length. Second implication: I go after Persinger and not Derr because he's a con-man and unscientific. I never said that Persinger was a con-man. As for not going after Derr, Derr doesn't proclaim assertions about TST data. Derr has never advised that ufologists and UFO witnesses are at a greater risk of being diagnosed with cancer. Persinger has. > Chris then makes the curious statement, QUOTE: "but clearly > UFO reports are different from such observations. Any cursory > review of EQL cases will show this". UNQUOTE >Well, perhaps it is because Chris has been cursory that he thinks >this. First of all, what is he defining UFOs as? Surely, the bulk >of all such reports are short-lived lights? Again, clever use of words. You imply that my decades of research is "cursory". Good job! As for the bulk of UFOs being short-lived lights, that's not necessarily true, and in any case a slippage of facts. In our continued studies of actual UFO data, it turns out that the average duration of a UFO sighting is several minutes in length, as much as 10 to 12 minutes in some studies. There are, of course, many, many brief observations, of the order of 5 seconds or shorter. While these can be called earth lights or TST-induced lights, astronomers call them meteors and fireballs. Again, as I noted in previous posts, when raw UFO data is examined in detail, there are *very* few cases which seem to be applicable to EL or TST explanations. >EL can be as large (eg. at Hessdalen) as reported UFOs; if they >are a form of plasma, as seems likely (most scientists are >assuming that for ball lightning, for instance) , then they can >appear glowing and multicoloured at night, and appear as >metallic-looking disks and globes in daylight. That's true, but because there are so many other possible explanations, given observational uncertainties on the part of witnesses, it is difficult to see which case could have a EL explanation and which an explanation as a high-flying airplane. >But I don't want to minimise the complexities. It may be that >the geophysical forces that give rise to EL are found in both >tectonic and meteorological factors. Or even a combination. BL, >EQL and EL may be a related spectrum of phenomena. From their >reported appearance and behaviour, this seems to be a reasonable >assumption. Yes, given the wide variance of reported shapes, colours, sizes and effects, it sure seems that nothing can be ruled out, and everything can be considered a tectonic phenomenon. > SPECIAL NOTE: With regard to 'energy' dowsing, I have for 15 or > more years been the chief critic of such claims in the UK - and > you can check that with any neutral observer (try Bob Rickard if > you like, editor of *Fortean Times*). I have been hated, abused, > and otherwise reviled by New Age circles and dowsing groups > because of my emphatic opposition to their nonsense. >Therefore, Chris, you have not only got it wrong, you have got it >completely ass-backwards. What you state, and the implications >you make, are simply untrue. You are either totally ignorant, or >are being intellectually dishonest. >I don't know if you bother to make apologies for publicly >broadcasting untruths, but if so, then you owe me one. Well, from reading your books about EARTH MIND and GAIA and from reading the aforementioned article in NEW SCINTIST, it certainly seemed as though your association with DP and their testing of megalith sites with dowsers, faith healers and biofeedback, suggested you were off the beaten track a bit. Is there not a *third* possibility? That I presented the facts as known and that my interpretation is at odds with yours? If you are an arch-critic of dowsing, I commend you. Your discussion of such phenomena in your books seems to support them, not oppose them. If that is not the case, then I would certainly apologize. But, thank you for offering only the two possibilities that I was either dishonest or ignorant. You just might be as cynical as I am! :) >I do know, and agree, that the USGS is more conservative. But by >the time all institutions accept such correlations as meaningful >(not to mention downright bloody obvious), we'll all be yawning >about them. They were the same with EQLs and BL. A few old lags >in all the Earth Sciences fields in all countries still hold out >on all these fronts - BL, EQL, EL - wanting a nice tidy (and >tiny) model of the planet to take to their graves. But then I've >stood on the high slopes of Popocatapetl with the young(ish) >geologist monitoring it, listening to him tell me of the LP he >has seen in the area since his teens! It's all over bar the >shouting, Chris. Darn those Americans, anyway! I'm glad I'm not one! Hmmm ... you sound like me! ;) > (the whole New Jersey 'Vestigia' case has been > completely dismissed - we found the reason for the reports)... > ." UNQUOTE. I mentioned our work in Australia doing EL > fieldwork, and that we had geomagnetic anomalies recorded > while observing unexplained lights. Chris replied, QUOTE: > "Really? And that one was funded by the AGU and written up in > great detail in EOS and other publications. The researchers at > the time were convinced that the luminous objects detected > were related to geophysical/geological mechanisms. What was > the explanation?" >Chris, are you referring to the event NE of Perth, which may have >been a quake/meteorite/nuclear expolosion? No, I was asking about the Vestigia studies, which seemed very similar to yours. That's why I was asking. But - er - a *nuclear explosion* in Australia? I don't even want to comment on this one. >Chris, we really are doing our best -- and perhaps you should be >more cautious in what appears to me and others as your habit of >endlessly criticising (it has been going on for one and half >decades to my knowledge). More is being done in genuine, >scientific research terms right now on the EL front than in any >other area of ufology. It is not enough, we have no hard-and-fast >answers, but it is the best we can do - and it ain't bad in the >circumstances. Paul, *please* understand - I'm really on your side. I am fascinated by the possibility that some UFOs may be natural phenomena, and advocate research into this area. But science involves very careful and painstaking refining of theories and incontrovertible proof to support them. If you're playing the science *game*, as you say you are, then you must expect your work will be under the microscope. My "endless criticisms" are due to a scientific response to claims which are unsupported. If you and Peter and others choose to call me "grumpy" because of this, then so be it. When I began looking at articles about the TST and earth lights, I began first by discussing the matter with geophysicists and geologists and psychologists. I suspected something was wrong when the geophysicists (including Persinger's own thesis advisor) laughed out loud! These are the individuals who must be impressed with further papers, not the present adherents to the various theories. In fact, I tried in vain to have these geophysicists co-author my own papers, but they refused to be associated with "such nonsense" as the TST, claiming that no geophysicists or psychologists were taking the theory seriously and that was why a citation search revealed that very, very few people not associated with the theory were citing it. > I am going for a tectonic connection with EL because EQL > *are* produced (let us not be ridiculously coy about this), > and it therefore seems a logical starting point. Investigation > to date provides a broad base of evidence - in addition to > Persinger's work on the TST - suggesting this approach is > reasonably founded. But I do not rule out meteorological > elements as well - and, quite probably, other factors of which > we are unaware at present. In other words, despite your criticisms of me connecting the TST and EL theories, they *both* involve tectonic mechanisms that are not understood at the moment. Exactly as I noted. Good grief. As for scientific approaches to ufology, you might be interested to know that there is also ongoing research into UFO data itself. Frankly, most statisticians would be appalled at the quality of UFO data on record. If UFO data is ever to be used in correlative studies, this is a fundamental issue that must be resolved *first* before interpretations of other phenomena are presented. >Finally Chris, regarding you getting a review (freebie) copy of >that book when it comes out later this year, well, look at it >this way: monies from that book are helping finance the new >Hessdalen project, and it helps people like Peter and I fund our >independent existence so we can conduct the sort of research I >have been alluding to. We do not have salaries or income from any >other sources than our writing and whatever research funding we >can raise. Think of the few dollars you pay for the book as being >supportive of research. I'm sure you would want to do that. Okay, that'll just delay my review a bit. :) (Incidentally, I've been just as hard on debunkers' books in my reviews.) >My best wishes to you Chris, and to all members of the list. May >understanding prevail. And to you, too! You know, I have a feeling we'd get along quite chummily if we were to meet over some ale in a pub! I may be grumpy, but that doesn't mean I don't know how to have a good time! ;) At any rate, I'm not going to bore readers of the List with a belaboured and *detailed* point-by-point rebuttal. If Devereux and Brookesmith think they're right, that's fine. I had the same trouble getting people listening to me when Chorost and other cerealogists sent me the infamous "radionuclides paper" to review, and I warned them about the many errors, to no avail. Similarly, I took quite a flaming over the Hale-Bopp companion argument, and to this day there are those who still think there's a giant spaceship out there, against my cautions about inaccurate interpretations and conclusions. Jan, thanks for your supportive comments through this debate. The reality is that since ufology is a faith-based field, there is little way to "convert" anyone from one camp to another. Note the Hale-Bopp debacle, the autopsy film, the green Israeli alien lizard, contactees, etc. I am reminded of a time when I was interviewing J. Allen Hynek about various aspects of ufology, and asked him why he rarely agreed to debate debunkers such as Phil Klass in a public forum. He replied: "Because it would be like a Jesuit arguing with a Rabbi." (Again, note the religious connotation.) I don't expect that Peter or Paul (*another connotation*!) will change their views because of these exchanges, and they probably realize that I won't be changing mine too radically, but I hope that readers have a better idea now of how complex this issue is, and of how loaded are the text, discourse and dialogue. Best wishes to all! Next thread, please! Chris (Grumpy) Rutkowski Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: 'Libel' From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Feb 97 12:49:44 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:49:47 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' I'm sorry to bore list members with UFO politics but I can't let Stan Friedman get away with this: Stan Friedman wrote: >Concerning Andy Roberts charge re my libel suit, he is off the wall. >I sued the Manchester Evening News and Jenny and Bufora, (since she >was acting in her role as their director of research) for defamation >in a long and very nasty article appearing on a Saturday before my >Sunday lecture in Manchester. It wasn't 'nasty', it reflected opinion about someone who held very strange beliefs. Are you scared of opinion Stan? Interestingly enough more people became aware of the issues as a result of your lawsuit than were before. Funny way of not wanting to be 'defamed'. >There was no Sunday paper in which an apology could be published. >She initially tried to blame the newspaper. We obtained copy of >the letter she had sent the paper which was even more defamatory >ten the article. An out of court settlement was reached and a >full apology was published. Mainly because the person acting legally for you in the UK has had it in for Jenny for years and his actions appeared to be a personal vendetta. The libel laws are, as most of us know, based on medieval laws and are stacked against you from the word go - unless you have lots of money. Also by your reasoning not only do you not allow opinion to be expressed publically but you won't even allow it in a private letter! >There are laws about defamation. A bunch of misguided UK people >tried to make it a free speech issue (it never was) and raised >money to help Jenny... all the while misrepresenting the >particulars of the case. The 'bunch' of people may have been misguided but they were misguided by the simple fact that an American ufologist, using sympathetic legal contacts was out to stifle opinion about what many ufologists world-wide still see as nutty ideas. Sorry if you or the list doesn't like that way of looking at it but that's how it is. People are quite entitled to hold *any* ideas they want - the more the merrier - but they must also accept that outlandish ideas in particular attract the most cutting criticisms. What's the problem? A great many well-known UK ufologists put money up for Jenny's defence and some sci-fi people such as Dave Langford. Jenny was fully aware of this but in the end due to family reasons chose not to go through with it. A great pity to my mind as we would have seen the bizarre spectacle of strange beliefs put on trial, and according to legal advice taken at the time Jenny would have won. >Even now, though touting free speech, they made it impossible >for solicitor Harry Harris, who handled the case for me, to >speak at a recent UK conference. This was a diffrent bunch of misguided people entirely Stan! I presume you are referring to the recent Lytham St Annes conference in which Harry Harris conned the organising group LAPIS - against their founder members wishes - into letting him speak. It's true he *was* virtually booed off stage but that was just because what he was saying was boring and innapopriate. Few people there actually knew who he was, cared less and just wanted some entertainment. Harry wanted to rant about why he didn't agree with Dr Sue Blackmore's *opinion* on abductions as expressed on a TV show a year or so earlier. The sequel to this is he has caused so much hassle in the LAPIS group that even the people who invited him in the first place now regret it. (for a fuller outline of this see the next issue of BUFORAs UFO Times or The New Ufologist 'zines). >Free speech doesn'tmean freedom to reveal state secrets, incite >a riot, or defame a person. Why not? You're on *very* dodgy ground now Stan. In two of those circumstances it's your moral duty in many instances and the last is debatable. >The best defense against libel is truth. Jenny had none on her >side. She had every opportunity to apologize and would not.. Why should she apologise for her opinions? Again, I'm sorry to make a point of all this but it just typifies what *really* goes on in so-called UFO research. And whether we like it or not UFO politics make the subject what it is. The stories which could be told would make the average consumer of ufolgy's toes curl, but I know the list is sensitive! Vallee was right to stay out of it all- but for us lesser mortals who don't like to see wool being pulled over eyes we *should* expose the petty arguments and even pettier personalities who are just out for a fast buck or their five minutes of fame as a big fish in a *very* small pool. Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 NORAD Tracks Santa Claus - Laugh Out Loud From: armen victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:29:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:48:30 -0500 Subject: NORAD Tracks Santa Claus - Laugh Out Loud One of the news agencies faxed me the following, seeking assistance for further clarification, in January this year. "Warning! UFO sighted over Canadian North! NORAD goes RED Alert" The fax included some details of how NORAD had put their forces on Red Alert on the Northern territories in Canada on Christmas Day. In response to my inquiry from my sources within NORAD, I received the following today, that on reflection might lighten up a dull day. "....regarding a sighting event took place on Christmas Day in 1996..Given the timing of this sighting, the report refers to the annual NORAD alert that is put out when NORAD Tracks Santa Claus which has been a popular media and community relations tool for this command for many years. For your information, CFS [Canadian Forces - sic] alert is not part of the North Warning System of radars that stretch across Alaska's North Slope and Northern Canada" One wonders why NORAD didn't look for Santa Claus in 34th Avenue, instead of tracking the heavens - lol Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Feb 97 11:08:28 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:08:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:01:01 -0600 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Michael, You make some valid points but you are missing one critical one. Ray has never, to my knowledge, asserted that he owns copyright to the original film. He has asserted that he owns copyright to the processed and enhanced version which he has sold on video. Legal experts I have spoken with say that this is certainly valid. Since no one has come forward from the US Government to assert copyright on the original 16 mm film footage, Ray has every right to copyright modified material, including modification by way of editing, optical and/or digital enhancement, additions (film label info), and so forth. This is well established law, and Ray does not to prove anything about the original film to enforce his copyright to the video material. >>I agree. Despite Bob Shells claims to the contrary, Santilli is >>not acting like someone who wants to be forgotten. Hell, he and >>his company are better known today than prior to this happening. >>Draw your own conclusions. When did I claim that Ray wanted to be forgotten?? I don't recall saying anything like that. Ray would like to get out of the hot seat of UFOlogy, certainly, but his business is a good part PR and being forgotten is the last thing he would want. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:05:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:07:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Regarding... >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 01:51:38 -0500 (EST) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Rebecca Schatte wrote: >Ray said he came away with 22 reels, but the cameraman says: >...Santilli took about 25 rolls. >...What did Ray get? Rebecca, He claims it was those 22 reels mentioned, which I suppose is "about 25". See also my response to Bob Shell. According to George Wingfield, Reg Presley was adamant he had initially been told there were only 14 or 15 canisters of film. There's no verification that Ray originally said this, but it is the figure Reg quoted when he first spoke of the footage. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: Lee/Leon Shargel Research From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 09:23:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:12:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Lee/Leon Shargel Research Here is what I have on Lee Shargel. Jorgen / WUFOC http://www.wufoc.com ------ Shargel, Lee (aka n/a) Email: JMMQ06A Agent: Deborah Smith Address: 4711 N.W. 82nd Ave. Fort Lauderdale, FL 33351 Phone: 305-572-9948 Published works: 100 Years of Moving Pictures, Faircount, 11/95, Science Fiction, Film/Cinema/Stage Voice In The Mirror, TOR, 4/96, Science Fiction Welcome to Hardrock-Penal Colony Gamma 5, Paramount, 4/94, Science Fiction Telecommuting in Cyberspace, Predictions/England, 7/93, Science Fiction Chulos, TOR, 2/93, Science Fiction Auto-Erotica, Penthouse, 6/95, Erotic Fiction Shakespeare & Socrates, Veerhoven, 1991, 1992, 1993 1994, 1995, 1996 (series), Juvenile Fiction Interests: Sci-Fi, Screenplays, Mystery, General Interest Articles Biographical statement: Mr. Shargel is a former NASA scientist. began writing in 1990 fulltime. Winner of national playwrights award for We Can make A Difference. Active lecturer on UFO's, ET's and astronomical phenomena. Lives in FL with his two ocelots, Shakespeare & Socrates.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: Eye-coverings - man-made? From: MAC TONNIES <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:24:03 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:11:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Eye-coverings - man-made? Jorgen Westman wrote: >Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:05:38 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Eye-coverings - man-made? >Hi Mac. >As I once again saw the Kiviat "documentary" of the AA-film. And >I, over and over again, reacted to people, like the FX experts saying >things like: >"That kind of material didn't exist in 1947...so maybe it's >real." >You did the same in your postwhere you refered to the >question if contact lenses, if the even existed in 1947. I guess you >didn't mean it like that, but I think my point is important: >1. There is absolutely no proof the film is made in 1947... >2. No-one has seen any actual frames with the "alien" on it... [snip] >Once again mac, my guess is that you didn't mean it like I'm >suggesting, but others have, so I think my point stands up. Jorgen-- You're right--I didn't mean to imply that the film "must be real" because of the weird contact lenses. I'm well aware that the footage has yet to be conclusively dated. I guess this is just "for the record." In any case, thanks for your response. I've certainly learned a lot about contact lens technology because of all this! Sincerely, **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Shuttle Video - Comms Indicate Anomolies From: Paul Jones <paul@termcon.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:51:45 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:23:50 -0500 Subject: Shuttle Video - Comms Indicate Anomolies Hi All, I'm forwarding this to the UFO list at the request of Dave, it was on my Radio Listserver. Some interesting goings on in outer space, or so it seems. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:28:09 -0800 To: EURO-SCANNER@PEGASUS.CH From: satcom@mail.cybase.co.uk (John Locker) Reply-to: EURO-SCANNER@PEGASUS.CH Subject: SHUTTLE VIDEO >>> COMMS INDICATE ANOMOLIES>> Its Tuesday 0640 gmt..I am watching a live link to Europe of NASA TV....EVA in progress..and astronauts in airlock awaiting further instructions... camera cuts to MCC and voices from shuttle call out.."what was that..two lights out in front of us...yeh I saw them too...thought it was my imagination.."then one of them seems to say "hope you're getting pictures!" The feed then drops out to a test card..and yet...the link should have remained up for another 30 mins...So whats going on... All is on tape...As soon as I get the chance will arrange full transcript..... Part two ..this is the transcript of my tape... Video shows MCC,little activity..guess they are too busy deciding what to do about the telescope to listen to off air chat.. Crew.."What was that flash?" "That light flashed ???????????????" "I'm ??????????????????you could see it" "I just thought it was my imagination" "I saw it too...there was two of THEM" "There's another one...WHAT *ARE* THEY?" "I just saw the lights flashing in here" "I wonder if THEY'RE(?)taking pictures?" "WHAT IS THAT"..excitedly "(There's )THERE'S THIS THING passed in front of us" "Where are the lights?" "Which ones?" "I missed the ??????????????? for a second,but I had that one the whole time" "Yeh I got that one too!" At this point what may have been the comms controller left his desk and moved to a colleague at the back of MCC to talk to him,the latter leans forward towards the console as if to operate a switch,and the video cuts out! NOTE>>????????????? indicates one or two words I was unable to decipher. Anyone help me with this...DID they see something out there..I have been trying to explain to myself all day what they could have been referring to,but apart from light flashing off the telescopes panels.... I find it hard to decide! Regards, John. John Locker G7-MIZ Satellite and Communications Consultant Homepage......http://www.cybase.co.uk/satcom/ Contributor ..What Satellite...ShortWave Magazine..Television..Tellisatellit...Dr Dish TV (Spacenews in English)..Alien Encounters. -- Paul Jones - Monitoring the World from Birmingham, England. Email: paul@termcon.demon.co.uk | paul@termcon.powernet.co.uk WWW: http://www.termcon.demon.co.uk/ EuroScanner Listserver - EURO-SCANNER-request@pegasus.ch SUBSCRIBE EURO-SCANNER
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 'Smear' Snippet From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:22:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:22:21 -0500 Subject: 'Smear' Snippet From: Saucer Smear, Volume 44, No. 2 - February 10th, 1997 http://www.mcs.com/~kvg/smear/v44/ss970210.htm That Jim Mosely is at it again - much laughter from me while reading. The followling is but a snippet - go visit and read the rest. ebk ______________________________________ ROSWELL UPDATE Next summer's Roswell (N.M.) Festival is shaping up in a big way, as the item below, from "New Age Journal", clearly indicates. Already, the International UFO Museum at Roswell has moved to new and larger quarters - from 406 Main St. all the way down to 114 Main St. The husband of the Museum's Publicity Director, Deon Crosby, is named Stan Crosby, and he is in charge of another organization involved with the Festival. His group is called "UFO Encounter". Mr. Crosby has given us some rather startling information: William Shatner of "Star Trek" fame is expected to be on the Program, together with one Don Schmitt, who quite frankly has disgraced himself in the UFO field by repeatedly lying about his place of employment (which is "merely" the U.S. Postal Service). Other speakers will probably include Budd Hopkins, Whitley Strieber, Stanton Friedman, Linda Howe, John Mack, Bob Dean, and a host of lesser-known figures. Long-time Roswell researchers Karl Pflock and Kevin Randle appear to be on the Crosbys' "Shit List", as they have expressed concern about the obvious bias and commercialism of the Festival. Neither of them will be on the Program. Jesse Marcel Jr., son of controversial Roswell witness Jesse Marcel Sr., will be present at the Festival but not lecturing, we are told. Another very interesting thing that Pflock and Randle have in common is that they have both recently abandoned belief in the story told by mortician Glenn Dennis, about a nurse named Naomi Sekff who saw dead alien bodies at the Base hospital. Glenn Dennis is apparently the last major living civilian Roswell witness. Although Randle still believes in an extraterrestrial explanation for the Roswell Incident, he has told us that he has another UFO book coming out later this year, with a chapter called "The Decline and Fall of Roswell". Good title! Says Pflock, in an E-mail letter to Glenn Dennis and others: "Based on my research and that of others, I'm as certain as it's possible to be without absolute proof, that no flying saucer or saucers crashed in the general vicinity of Roswell or on the Plains of San Agustin in 1947. The debris found by Mac Brazel and brought to the Roswell air base by Brazel Major Marcel, and others, was the remains of something very earthly - all but certainly something from the top Secret Project Mogul. "The recollections of the real Roswell witnesses and those involved with Mogul and the 1947 press accounts, official records having to do with Mogul, and weather data from the time, all support the conclusion that what Brazel found was from Mogul and that he found it in mid-June, not early July. The formerly highly classified record of correspondence and discussions among top Air Force officials who were responsible for cracking the flying saucer mystery from the mid-1940s through the early 1950s makes it crystal clear not only that they didn't have any crashed-saucer wreckage or bodies of saucer crews, but that they were desperate to have such evidence and were tearing their hair out because they didn't..." Kevin Randle is coming to the Festival to film a documentary, but our friend Pflock is so disillusioned that he may not show up at all, though he lives relatively nearby. However, we still enjoy the Roswell Incident greatly as a Marvelous Modern Myth (M.M.M.), and we are eagerly looking forward to attending said Festival, together with several like-minded friends. For Roswell die-hards, there is new hope in the form of one Colonel Philip J. Corso, who after fifty years of Silence, has come forth with a book called "The Day After Roswell" - just in time to publicize it at the Festival! The publisher is Pocket Books, a division of Simon & Schuster, and their publicity blurb reads in part as follows: "Backed by newly declassified documents, Col. Corso (Ret.) reveals his personal stewardship of alien artifacts from the crash, how these items changed the course of 20th Century history, and the U.S Government's astonishing role in covering up the incident..." Funny, but the recently declassified documents we have seen, such as the one quoted on the masthead of the June 1st, 1996 "Smear", point to the fact that as of 1948 - the year after the alleged Roswell Incident - the Air Force knew of no UFO crashes at Roswell or anywhere else! Through two Secret Sources, we learn that Corso's distinguished military background is authentic but that nevertheless he may well be a highly-evolved Bullshit Artist. The above-mentioned blurb says that "Corso will walk the media through the (Roswell) crash site", at the time of the Festival; but one wonders which of several rival crash sites he will favor!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: 'Libel' From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@BrunNet.net> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 04:30:29 PST Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:25:16 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' Once again Andy is guilty of misrepresenting the straight forward facts of the libel case as anybody who reads the initial article and letter and the apology would know. The charges attributed to me were totally false. I did not hold the nutty views attributed to me. Hence the defamation. I have taken on Phil Klass in aboiut 8 hrs. of Tv and several of radio and a formal debate. I hardly have stifled anybody who disagrees with me. The MEN is a major paper. They realized the error of their ways. Bufora has a vendetta against Harry, not he and I vs. Randles.Why not post the article and the letter and the apology? False charges and free speech are not the same thing..If one wishes to defame, then be willing to pay the price... If a theif wants to steal, he should be willing to pay the price rather than claim that stealing isn't a crime. If someone wants to steal my good name by making false charges, then that person should be willing to pay the price.Jenny was offered the opportunity to apologize early on with no penalty. She gambled and lost . Let us not make a martyr of someone guil.ty of libel. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 'UFO' Kills Man! From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 18 Feb 97 16:39:53 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:26:49 -0500 Subject: 'UFO' Kills Man! I have recently unearthed a file of papers from the old Air Ministry files which deal with sightings of phantom airships/airplanes over the UK during WW1 and I thought List members may find the following 'historical' UFO report of interest: 'An officer in charge of a small captive balloon had been posted to us and every evening he used to ascend to a height of 500ft and keep a look out over London for an hour or two. One night he signalled down that he observed a large hostile airship approaching London at a rapid pace, flashing red, green and yellow lights. On hearing this a civilian pilot immediately went up alone in a Henri Farman. He, naturally, could see nothing and in attempting to land injured himself fatally. In the meatntime the balloon observer had signalled down that he was very sorry but that he had discovered that the lights he had seen were not those of an airship but were in reality the star Vega. This period was also remarkable for the number of panic messages which came in from all parts of the district from civilians who thought they had heard or seen hostile aircraft.' Source: AIRI/2386 228/11/15 This incident, and the hundreds similar to it from the same period, are very much relevant to the study of UFOs today. In and amongst all the speculation about crashed saucers, low flying UFOs, flying triangles, abductions and so on we ought to be giving equal consideration to the matters raised in the above such as: * How a trained military observer flying a ballon regularly in the same location could misdentify a star to such an extent that he perceived it to a be a rapidly closing, well illuminated, airship. and * Why was Vega a UFO *that* particular night and on no other to that particular observer? Until such questions as these are addressed and answered by the modern ufological community then speculation about matters more arcane, whilst being immense fun, stand largely on a bed of sand. No doubt this post will be dismissed entirely as the ravings of the more extreme end of the psycho-social theory, but I think a bit of 'back-to-basics' ufology is sometimes quite refreshing! The file also goes on to detail military intelligence attempts at locating the alleged German airship base said to be in the northern hills (none ever existed), the rumours that thousands of Russian troops had been carried through Britain by train (they weren't) and the numerous lights seen in remote and mountainous areas which were interpreted as enemy spies signalling (none were ever captured or proved to have been there at all) and other such panic rumours. Reading this material strongly brings home the fact that much of the central problem of ufology is one of (mis) perception fuelled by prevailing worries and panics. Substitute 'UFO' for the keywords in the Air Ministry file and you have a situation differing little from today's UFO waves, flaps and entrenched belief systems. If, in 1914, highly trained personnel can be so sincere and certain in their perception of stars and other natural phenomena as being 'their' UFOs then what does that say of many sightings today by both military *and* civilian witnesses. But then, what do I know! Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 17:25:56 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:29:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: 16 Feb 97 11:31:53 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >>Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:28:06 -0500 >>From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >James, >Colin may have put that comment in print, but Reg told me that >Ray had told him that, and I think Reg used the quote in at least >one TV or radio interview. >I wish you would stop going over and over this about the number >of film reels. You do not know the length of those 22 reels, some >of which may have been made up of multiple 100 foot rolls spliced >together. Hi Bob, Not only do we not know the number and length of the film reels, we don't even know that there are any film reels. So far, all we have is an interesting bit of video, and scads of unverified (and demonstrably false) claims made by its promoters. How can you continue to speak so authoritatively on *any* aspect of this caper? Your consistent knee-jerk defense of Santilli and the AA video's provenance certainly indicates to me that your involvement in this affair is limited to being a shameless PR flack for Ray Santilli and Company. Vince
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 18 Planetary Astronomers Start Year with Two From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:16:09 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:28:22 -0500 Subject: Planetary Astronomers Start Year with Two Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC January 29, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1753) Diane Ainsworth Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA (Phone: 818/354-5011) RELEASE: 97-20 PLANETARY ASTRONOMERS START YEAR WITH TWO DISCOVERIES Two newly detected members of the Solar System -- a rare asteroid orbiting close to Earth and a distant comet making its only appearance -- mark the first discoveries of the year for a team of astronomers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, CA. The discoveries, reported Jan. 10 by JPL planetary scientists Eleanor Helin, Steve Pravdo, David Rabinowitz and Ken Lawrence, were made possible with a few nights of clear observing weather and use of a sensitive, charge-coupled device (CCD) camera called the Near-Earth Asteroid Tracking (NEAT) system at Mt. Haleakala, Maui, HI. Since their initial sightings, both objects have become the focus of worldwide observations by astronomers in Japan, China, Australia, Canada, Italy and the Czech Republic. "This asteroid is a member of a rare class of asteroids, called Atens, which stay within Earth's orbit most of their lifetimes," said Helin, principal investigator of the NEAT project. "The object has a higher inclination to the plane of Earth's orbit than most Atens; in fact, at 31 degrees, it has the second highest inclination of all the Atens we've discovered." The highly inclined orbit, which is unusual, may result from long-range interactions with the planets, or may be the outcome of previous orbits passing near the Earth. With the discovery of more Atens, the relative importance of these competing influences may be better understood. Dubbed 1997 AC11, the asteroid is a faint object with an absolute magnitude of 21, and probably measures about 600 feet in diameter. It is only the 24th Aten to be discovered in 21 years, since Helin found and named the first Aten in January 1976. With orbits that are smaller than Earth's, and short periods, Atens are in the vicinity of Earth frequently. This closeness to Earth makes them more likely to impact the planet than other types of asteroids. "Atens never wander far from the orbit of Earth and can cross Earth's orbit as many as four times a year," Helin said. "1997 AC11, for instance, has a period of 8/10ths of a year, or roughly 9.5 months. As we continue to observe it in coming months, we will be able to characterize its orbital path with more precision. With more precise data, we will be able to examine its potential for collision with Earth at some time in the future." Along with the newest Aten, astronomers also discovered a new comet, still distant but moving toward the Earth and Sun, as it passed through the constellation of Leo. Designated Comet 1997 A1, the celestial snowball is expected to make its closest approach to Earth on Feb. 6, passing at a distance of about 230 million miles, but remaining visible in the night sky for several months thereafter. "This comet has traveled a long distance, originating in the Oort Cloud, a region far beyond Pluto's orbit which is believed to house trillions of incipient comets," Helin said. "It has a parabolic orbit, which means it will travel through our Solar System once and probably never be seen again. Parabolic comets do not present their calling cards before arriving in the inner Solar System. They appear without warning." At discovery, 1997 A1 was fairly dim at magnitude 19, and showed a weakly condensed nucleus with a diffuse halo and short tail, Helin said. The Minor Planet Center at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, MA, announced the discovery, reporting it as a parabolic comet, with an orbital inclination of 145 degrees from the ecliptic plane, and indicated that it would not pass any closer than 3.17 astronomical units (295 million miles) from the Sun. JPL's NEAT team, in conjunction with another observing effort under way at the Laboratory's Table Mountain Observatory in San Bernardino, CA, will continue to track and characterize the comet over the next several months until it is no longer visible. During its closest approach on Feb. 6, the newly discovered comet will be visible in the constellation of Cancer and brighten to a magnitude of about 18. Moderate-sized telescopes with CCD chips will be able to observe the comet, Helin said. Astronomers report that the comet is continuing to outgas, or warm up and boil off some of its ices, as it moves toward the Sun. Low-resolution black-and-white images of both objects are posted on the Internet at the following URL: http://huey.jpl.nasa.gov/~spravdo/neat.html Discoveries of very faint or distant objects, and those surprisingly close by, are increasing due to the introduction of technologically advanced, fully autonomous CCD telescopes. The NEAT camera, for example, employs a very large, very sensitive 4,096-by-4,096-pixel CCD. The camera is installed on a 39-inch telescope operated at the summit of Mt. Haleakala by the U.S. Air Force. Using this powerful, fully automated system, astronomers are discovering many more objects than was possible in the past. The January observing run, for instance, produced more than 700 asteroid sightings, including high-inclination inner-belt asteroids and a number of potential Mars-crossers, which will be confirmed after more observations become available. Total detections since NEAT began operations in late 1995 have climbed to more than 9,000 objects, of which more than 50 percent are new objects and more than 800 of those have received new designations. NEAT was built and is being managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Re: 'Libel' From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:27:57 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:15:10 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@BrunNet.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Libel' > Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 04:30:29 PST > If someone wants to steal my good name > by making false charges, then that person should be willing to pay the > price.Jenny was offered the opportunity to apologize early on with no > penalty. She gambled and lost . Let us not make a martyr of someone guil.ty > of libel. Stan Friedman Careful Stan. I thought you said an out of court settlement was issued, which means a court never did find Jenny Randles guilty of anything. Look at Richard Jewell. He's won a couple of out of court settlements against people who said the same thing. You're skirting the libel edge.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 RV Book Review From: Ddrasin@aol.com (by way of Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net>) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:36:12 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:12:57 -0500 Subject: RV Book Review This to the ufo list from Dan D.: "Psychic Warrior" by David Morehouse A book review by Trish MacGregor In the spring of 1987, a stray bullet changed the course of David Morehouse's life. He was one of the army's elite Airborne Ranger company commanders, training Jordanian rangers in the desert, when he was knocked unconscious by a stray bullet that lodged in his helmet. While he was out, he had a series of visions that were similar to what are often reported during near-death experiences. And yet, other than a nasty bruise on his forehead and the brief period of unconsciousness, he wasn't physically wounded. But the incident precipitated nightmares, haunting visions, the stuff of mental breakdowns. As a result of these experiences, Morehouse was eventually recruited into Project STARGATE, the CIA's remote viewing operation. This program grew out of the remote viewing research that began at Stanford Research Institute in 1973. Although Project STARGATE refined the techniques that were developed by Ingo Swann, Russel Targ. and Harold Puthoff, the basics remained the same. A viewer projects part of his consciousness to a particular locale in time and space that's identified only by a series of random numbers. Once the viewer has arrived, he reports what he sees and experiences. Project STARGATE took this ability to a much higher level by creating a science of it. They trained individuals who showed potential, then taught them how to use the talent for psychic warfare. All of it, of course, was top secret. It won't come as any great surprise to anyone that the government was or is involved in psychic espionage. What surprises, though, is Morehouse's ability to convey the complexity of what he was involved in without losing the equally complex emotional thread that propels the story forward. In this way, "Psychic Warrior" is very much like a good novel you can't put down. You care about what happens to the good guys and you especially care about Morehouse. You like him. You want him to win. And, like the best fiction. "Psychic Warrior" leaves you with a disturbing certainty that Morehouse actually lived what he wrote about, that he's telling the truth. On one level, remote viewing was Morehouse's narcotic. He pursued it relentlessly and it cost him dearly: the collapse of his marriage, threats on his life and that of his wife and children, and a court-martial that resulted in his resignation. But on another level, remote viewing became the vehicle of Morehouse's spiritual awakening. He began to ask the right questions. Why, for instance, was the government using viewers for psychic warfare rather than for finding the cure for cancer? Or for AIDS? Why not use the talent for bringing about world peace? "Psychic Warrior" stands out from the profusion of other spiritual books on the market these days. This is due, in part, to the quiet, convincing intensity of the writing and of the story. But it's also due to Morehouse, himself, a man who begins as a soldier, a minion of the military, and ends up as a spokesman for world peace and the evolution of human spirituality. BOOK: Title: "Psychic Warrior" ISBN: 0-312-14708-2 Pub. Date: 11/1996 Binding: Trade Cloth Publisher: St. Martin's Press, Inc. BOOK ON TAPE: Title: "Psychic Warrior" ISBN: 0787111775 Pub. Date: 10/01/1996 Binding: Audio Tape Publisher: DOVT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Oliver's Castle Video - More From: MOMUS@uk.pipeline.com (George Wingfield) (by way of Erik Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:36:33 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:14:01 -0500 Subject: Oliver's Castle Video - More TO Insidersufos,insiderscircles, this from George W. (Mockingbird) with comment by us at end. _____________________________________________________________ Bulletin 19: OLIVER'S CASTLE VIDEO -- YET MORE HOCUS-POCUS ... -------------------------------------------------------------- Like Mr Santilli's "Alien Autopsy" scam, the Oliver's Castle Video (OCV), showing mysterious balls of light apparently forming the "Snowflake" crop formation, continues to attract attention on the Internet where a number of desperately seeking croppies try to convince the rest of us that it is genuine. Their ardent belief may be undimmed but any pretence that the video is genuine must surely be shattered in view of the fact that even Colin Andrews, the high priest of croppies, has rejected it all as a fake. In an e-mail letter sent to Erik Beckjord on 29th January 1997, Colin wrote :- >I can assure you that when all the information that is known >is placed into the public domain, the OC video will be seen as >a fraud. There are some very worrying aspects to it as far as >the original plan and the man who is in the center of it all >Mr John Wabe. Just 'maybe' this man has been put to work on >his first disinformation job by people in high places whom he >met while at Nottingham Univerity, studying for a degree in, >of all things, 'American Studies' - Naughty Uncle Sam at work >again!!!!!!" There are several incontestable reasons for believing the video is bogus even without the information which Colin has collected by use of a private detective agency. First and foremost is the fact that "John Wheyleigh", the person who produced a copy of the video in the Barge Inn and showed it to Peter Sorensen, Paul Vigay and others --though his primary target was always Colin Andrews-- is an "invisible" person. Besides the copy of the video, he left behind him only a mobile telephone number which was always unobtainable and later appeared to have been discontinued. "John Wheyleigh" is undoubtedly a borrowed or fictitious name, though whether the person masquerading as Wheyleigh in the Barge Inn was, or was not, John Wabe remains in doubt. Is it believable that such a dubious character would produce a genuine piece of film? If it was was genuine, what need was there for such anonymity? Surely, had the film been genuine, the person who shot it would have been only too willing to come forward, and eager too to collect any royalties on whatever commercial use was made of the film segment? Of course, but in this murky case the OCV film was deliberately directed at Colin, who had been targeted as the croppie most likely to accept it as genuine. In contrast, Steve Alexander shot a video film of a bright object moving over cropfields near the great Milk Hill pictogram of July 1990. Did he cloak himself in anonymity or vanish away without trace? Certainly not, and the genuineness of Steve's film was confirmed months later by a tractor driver (whose tractor appears in the footage) who said he had seen the unidentified object pass above him. Steve is now well known to most of those in the world of crop circles and, whatever his film shows, there can be no suggestion that he faked it like "Wheyleigh's" video film. On his webpage (http://rainbow.medberry.com/enigma/Artcl11_2.html) Paul Vigay, writing about the OCV, mentions various additional reasons for believing that it was faked. Not the least of which is that the camera was set up pointing directly at the cropfield where the "Snowflake" formation would appear, conveniently filling the field of view of the camera thus focussed. Now, isn't that an amazing coincidence? The formation unfolds on the video in just a few seconds. Interestingly the straight pathways are seen to form last, despite the fact that it could be clearly seen on the ground at the time that these pathways were underneath the lay of the crop in the satellite circles and must have been laid down earlier. How does any advocate of the film being genuine explain this ? Paul has used his computer hardware and software to produce a very similar piece of video film to Mr "Wheyleigh's" OCV. That this can be done in a few hours without highly expensive and specialised equipment gives the lie to the claim often made on the Internet that it would be impossible to fake such footage without considerable expertise and expenditure. That simply is not true. Exactly the same argument was used a year ago in defence of the bogus "alien autopsy"; it wasn't true in that case and this argument is not true now. Nevertheless the dwindling band of starry-eyed advocates of OCV being genuine, such as Michael Glickman, ilyes and Andy Thomas, still put forward such arguments. [Anyone who is interested in obtaining a copy of Paul Vigay's home-made reproduction of the OCV sequence may request one from him by sending a blank videotape and SAE (+ appropriate postage) to Paul Vigay, 104 Manners Road, Southsea, Hants PO4 0BG, U.K.] Colin Andrews's suggestion that this was a disinformation project, possibly inspired by the US government is however more difficult to sustain. Perhaps he will put forward any proof he has that this was the case? His e-mail message to Erik Beckjord continues as follows: >John Wabe set up business with a video/TV company in Bristol >where they make high quality video's for the television and >pop music industry and have all the equipment that is needed >to have made the several versions of this OC video. If I can >find the funds to continue this investigation I think we will >have the evidence to prove the involvement of other people >(some well known within the crop circle field) and perhaps >Uncle Sam too. I spent an hour with my detective agent in UK >recently and it is clear that something very well planned is >involved. It is also clear that more than one film version is >involved." "Other people ... some very well known within the crop circle field", says Colin. Well, well ! It is not hard to guess who was really behind the OCV scam in that case, and we don't have to look very far. On the evening before the Oliver's Castle "Snowflake" formation appeared (August 10th 1996) circlefaker Robert Irving came to the Barge Inn to meet another circle- faker, Paul Mann. It should be emphasised that Irving was not seen often in the Barge in 1996 since he lives in London, about eighty miles away. Apparently he was heard to say that there would be crop circles that night, though no other circles are known to have been made anywhere else. Later Irving and Mann left the Barge and drove together in the direction of Lockeridge. After that it is not known where they went. However, I believe that it is very significant that Paul Mann (together with Adrian Dexter) had made a fine set of crop circles, known as the "Three Nested Crescents" or the "Three Torcs", at Oliver's Castle --near Devizes, just seven miles from the Barge-- in July 1994. This was in the adjoining field, on farmer David Leonard's land, to that in which the "Snowflake" was found on August 11th 1996. Hardly a coincidence: I have little doubt that Irving and Mann made the "Snowflake" formation, though needless to say Irving denies it. In view of the fact that Irving had also forged a photograph of a flying saucer in an aircraft hangar at a NATO base in Italy (which was published in 'Fortean Times') using computer techniques to combine two digitised images some months previously, it would be fairly remarkable if he was NOT involved in the OCV scam given that he was there on that night. I have already made this accusation on the Internet, only to be met with the usual barrage of malicious abuse from Irving himself. Nevertheless, as they say, the truth is out there, despite the fact that the perpetrators of such scams will always deny it and the starry-eyed, desperate to believe, invariably suspend any critical facilities which they may have. George Wingfield February 1997 ---------------- Comment: Well, guess we'll change our estimate from 50/50 to 52 against, and 48 for. If anyone has info re Paul Mann, please post it to us. In our view, there is no proof we know of that Rob and Paul and Adrian made the 1994 Oliver's Castle formation, Three Torcs. We need more than just they saying so, and George being taken in by them. Anyone have any EVIDENCE ON THAT? Re Paul, if one was to get his video, we think it hardly needed to send a blank video OVERSEAS, when simply sending 2 pounds extra should do. We found blank videos for sale in drug stores all over the UK for 2 pounds or less, blank. Why spend more to mail a blank over? Eh, Paul???? Now as to the OCV, we have said repeartedly that to make it be valid, other people need to videotape such a formation in the act of forming, and they need to be several people together, who will have real addresses and be real people. Maybe someone will this summer. Maybe we will be around to be "just sitting in the Barge" when they come in. Heheheheheh..... EB [Erik Beckjord]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:23:54 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:16:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: 18 Feb 97 11:08:28 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 11:01:01 -0600 > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >From: btbmag@ro.com (Michael Malone) > >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Michael, > You make some valid points but you are missing one critical one. > Ray has never, to my knowledge, asserted that he owns copyright > to the original film. He has asserted that he owns copyright to > the processed and enhanced version which he has sold on video. > Legal experts I have spoken with say that this is certainly valid. > Since no one has come forward from the US Government to assert > copyright on the original 16 mm film footage, Ray has every right > to copyright modified material, including modification by way of > editing, optical and/or digital enhancement, additions (film label > info), and so forth. This is well established law, and Ray does > not to prove anything about the original film to enforce his > copyright to the video material. I'd have to disagree. You can not copyright facts. Ray did not change the content of the film through his "enhancement." The relatively minor (to the content) changes his enhancement provided may not suffeciently change the content of the film to claim his own copyright. This is relativly cutting edge legal territory. If I take a picture, and you "enhance" it, how much does it have to change before you are no longer violating my copyright? No one is really sure, and we are relying entirly on case law at this point. While several bills are currently before the US Congress, there is no clear definition right now. One thing, however, is clear. The work Ray did do on the film does not change the factual content of the film. It would be quite hard to convince a jury that the work Ray performed changed the film enough for him to claim his own copyright on the work. And if he did, Ray WOULD have to provide the original films, since it would be central to his case. Without the original films, he has not provided the evidence need to show what changes he made. Any two-bit lawyer could either get the original films in discovery, or have the case thrown. Without the original images, Ray can't make the enhancement case. And, as you say, the original copyright holder, whoever that is, hasn't come forward. While it might be argued that without the assertation of the original copyright holder, the film has then been placed into the public domain. That would simply open up a whole new can of worms. The end result is that this will never be settled outside a court of law, and you and I can argue this till we are blue in the face. The fact is, Ray hasn't put the film into the legal forum. Till then, we are guessing how a jury and a judge will react. > >>I agree. Despite Bob Shells claims to the contrary, Santilli is > >>not acting like someone who wants to be forgotten. Hell, he and > >>his company are better known today than prior to this happening. > >>Draw your own conclusions. > When did I claim that Ray wanted to be forgotten?? I don't recall > saying anything like that. Ray would like to get out of the hot > seat of UFOlogy, certainly, but his business is a good part PR > and being forgotten is the last thing he would want. > Bob Sorry, Bob. When I said "forgotten" I was refering to "forgotten by us, the UFO community." Not by the world or his more lucrative business circles. I had thought that would have been obvious.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Feb 97 00:48:04 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:18:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 17:25:56 cst >Encoding: 60 Text >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Hello Vince, >>So far, all we have is an interesting bit of video, and scads of >>unverified (and demonstrably false) claims made by its promoters. Could you possibly give me a list of these claims? I am particularly in those that are "demonstrably false". I would like to compare it to the lists that I have. I also have a list of unverified and demonstrably false claims made by the films opponents and it seems to be so much longer than the list by the promoters, so I feel that I must be missing some. Thanks for the help. Regards, Theresa Carlson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 North west of England acquires own UFO? From: Dave.Tilbury@UK.Sun.COM (David Tilbury - Sun UK) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:26:15 GMT Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:17:17 -0500 Subject: North west of England acquires own UFO? The North-west of England appears to have acquired its very own UFO! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = During the last six months the north-west of England has experienced a number of Flying Triangle sightings. Speculation is rife as to what the object may be, and would be spotters have been focussing their attention on the area bounded by Barrow ..and Kendal to the north.....Southport to the South. Descriptions of the craft are usually detailed as it has a habit of loitering, or hovering for a while, before departing at speed. Since the middle of the summer the Triangle seems to have spread its area of operation south, to include Merseyside. Worldwide sightings are regular, but inconsistent in relation to the size of the craft. Our "local" visitor is usually cited as being between 30 to 50 feet across......on a Global scale the Triangles can have spans in excess of 100 feet, although in-flight characteristics appear similar, some of the overseas versions do seem to be a little more exotic in terms of performance. Consequently, I believe that here in the UK we are dealing with a different animal, ..not a UFO, but a Research and Development craft, of military origin...possibly a joint Anglo-American venture. From studying eye witness accounts it appears that the vehicle is almost performing to its audience, as if the operators are interested to see the response of the observers. Sightings are often accompanied by reports of a "charged" atmosphere, indicative perhaps that the propulsion device could be some form of scource..... which creates its own flight envelope, allowing the "plane" to hover, climb, turn etc at will. Similar in some ways to the "waverider " design. This may also explain the slight humming noise evident at times. Most witnesses describe a dark black triangular shape "lit" at each corner, with, in addition a central red/orange glow. These may be conventional navigation lights, although they are usually dim, and constant, and more probably the scource of propulsion. On some occasions the whole craft is described as having an orange glow...this adds weight to the self-energised flight envelope theory.. Matthews of the Lancashire UFO Society [LUFOS] covers the Flying Triangle in some detail. He refers to comments made by aviation journalist Philip Handelmann in his book 'Beyond the horizon-Combat Aircraft of the 21st century'. When discussing exotic 'triangle' type aircraft Handelmann comments.."These aircraft have reportedly been seen flying at exceptional slow speeds and making incredibly tight turns. They also have the pulsing engines associated with Aurora and extremely bright lights, which may be exhaust plumes, or, glowing aircraft surfaces from the heat of hypersonic flight. Some are said to be startlingly gigantic!" In mid-July a resident of a luxury flat, situated on the Wirral side of the River Mersey, reported in one of the paranormal magazines the following incident: *"Around 7pm on a pleasant summers evening in July, Dean Crowther looked out of the window of his luxury apartment overlooking the River Mersey, on the Wirral, at Liverpool. His curiosity was aroused by what appeared to be a strange looking boat leaving behind an even stranger wake in the water. As the object moved closer, Dean grabbed his binoculars and saw a black elongated triangular object emerging from the depths. He estimated the triangle to be approximately 30 feet long, by 20 feet wide. As he continued to watch, he was amazed when the object rose out of the water and into the air - reached a height of 25-30 feet before hovering motionless. Suddenly, the object pivoted 45 degrees on its axis and then moved at speed - first into a horizontal position, and then assuming a vertical position. Throughout this time the edges of the object appeared to ripple and fluctuate - then seemed to metamorphose until the wing area appeared to take on a more solid form. It then travelled away at high speed, vertically and was quickly lost from view. Dean said the object was matt-black in colour and took on an elongated triangular shape. It did not reflect light, but appeared to absorb it" *UFO Magazine November 1996 October 24th Southport, Lancashire, at least ten people reported seeing the triangle fly overhead. More recently, on November the 8th 1996, two independent witnesses reported a dark triangular shape hovering over the Mersey for nearly 30 minutes. Again red and yellow lights were in operation, although one of the witnesses described the white lights as similar to the effect of a dimmed torch, yellowish in form. **The other mentioned a peculiar flash of what seemed like lightning around the "plane" ** Black triangle seen over Liverpool moving slow very slow yesterday Nov 8th At 18:20 Mal Jones on his way to work followed this object, it then hovered over the River Mersey for at least 25 mins before clouds obscured view. Red dull light at front two dull yellow lights at rear the lights were like a torch with dying batteries it was a perfect triangle. Mal could not make out any noise as he was driving but when he pulled up in his car he could see it hovering in the distance he looked through his binoculars but only saw red light moving left to right...R MORGAN uk liverpool Skywatch International, Inc.via the Internet November 17th 16:30 GMT, a Sunday evening, five witnesses contacted LUFOS, very concerned by their visual contact with a large "Triangle", in excess of 50 feet across. The same evening there seems to be unusual business jet activity at a nearby Aerospace site. The most surprising incident, only came to light in the last few days, when a young boy revealed that during the first week in November, he and a friend had seen an object, which appeared between the clouds for just a few seconds. They had drawn this to the attention of the friends father, who, not seeing it dismissed it as "just a plane" Only when pressed for further information did he describe to me a solid black triangle, and an interesting aspect.........he pointed out that in the glow from the lights again, three white/yellowish..one red, he could see what he described as pipes on the underside of the craft. This feature has been mentioned in the past by other witnesses throughout the world...but is not a regular observation. The location was the northern end of the Wirral peninsula, looking from high ground towards the River Mersey at around 1850 hrs. All this adds weight to my belief that the mysterious black triangles are cutting edge technology "aircraft", which will no doubt soon be revealed to us in a blaze of publicity.....and we will be wondering what all the fuss was about!....or will we! The link with the Lancashire Aerospace factory cannot be ignored, what does go on at the Special Projects facility, situated within the airfield boundary? It's certainly well protected by heavy security measures, and, geographically the airfield is well positioned for covert operations during the hours of darkness. There are certain things which for reasons of Defence of the Realm must remain under wraps, and I for one fully support that belief, but, if we have developed this revolutionary aircraft, then surely it's something to celebrate, not hide away behind some sort of bizarre alien facade....especially when sightings are beginning to cause public concern. It was recently revealed that the BBC has been 'Heavily D Noticed' forbidding it from broadcasting any information about the triangle! Is that why it didn't cover the Manchester 'Near-miss' incident in detail in January 1995? That affair was one of the few listed by the CAA as unexplained. After extensive investigation, the CAA investigation group Group concluded "...in the absence of any firm evidence which could identify or explain this object, it was not possible to assess either the cause or the risk to any of the normal criteria applicable to air-miss reports." The crew of the 737 were praised for their courage, reporting the incident. They described the object, which came very close to their jet as"wedge shaped". An amazing coincidence, as in profile, as seen edge on, witnesses also indicate that the 'triangle' has a wedge like form! Judging by the high speed turns and climbs this craft can perform it must be considered that it could be unmanned, and flown remotely - could it have strayed into Manchester Airspace on that fated January evening?.........could this be the real reason why the operators are so keen to keep it a secret, because as soon as details are released to the press about the existence of a new triangular shaped aircraft, the media will surely put two and two together and link it to the Manchester incident. Speculation maybe, ...but stranger things have happened. During the mid 80's the USA was developing what we now know as the 'Sea Shadow', a stealth-type ship of cutting edge design. There are rumours that during tests a number of surface craft disappeared under mysterious circumstances, after possible collisions with the Sea Shadow. Then, remember the Aurora? Did it exist? Well, according to one US Military scource of course it did, the problem was the media were asking the wrong questions. Their line was "does Aurora exist?" They should have asked "has it ever existed?"! Then there is that stock phrase used by RAF spokes persons when approached about Triangle sightings...they are "of no defence significance"......of course not...because they are government agency operated! Finally, a further development occurred on February 13th over Mablethorpe, Lincolnshire, when just before 1500 GMT, a Black triangle was seen, flying at about 200 feet between two RAF Tornados! The three a/c were heading out to sea, possibly towards the North Sea ACMI [Show-ground] which hosts military exercises. The ACMI is an electronic warfare area bounded by high-tech pylons which register the activities of aircraft operating within the sector. The fighters carry special electronic pods, which register their status, and weapons 'fire' during military exercises. Could the triangle have been on its way to show-off to our NATO allies? If you have a story about the Triangle, Tim Matthews of The Lancashire UFO Society - LUFOS - would like to hear from you. He can be contacted at the following address..... P.O Box 73.Lancaster. LA1 1GZ. -> Posted by: Dave.Tilbury@UK.Sun.COM (David Tilbury - Sun UK)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Re: 'Libel' From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Feb 97 03:23:04 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:19:29 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' Stan Friedman wrote: >Once again Andy is guilty of misrepresenting the straight forward facts of >the libel case as anybody who reads the initial article and letter and the >apology would know. The charges attributed to me were totally false. I did >not hold the nutty views attributed to me. Hence the defamation. I have >taken on Phil Klass in aboiut 8 hrs. of Tv and several of radio and a >formal debate. I hardly have stifled anybody who disagrees with me. The MEN >is a major paper. They realized the error of their ways. Bufora has a >vendetta against Harry, not he and I vs. Randles.Why not post the article >and the letter and the apology? False charges and free speech are not the >same thing..If one wishes to defame, then be willing to pay the price... If >a theif wants to steal, he should be willing to pay the price rather than >claim that stealing isn't a crime. If someone wants to steal my good name >by making false charges, then that person should be willing to pay the >price.Jenny was offered the opportunity to apologize early on with no >penalty. She gambled and lost . Let us not make a martyr of someone guil.ty >of libel. Stan Friedman Stan, you are wrong - but entitled to your opinion! I remain steadfast in my *opinion*, that you: 1) purely because you *didn't agree with a critic's opinion* and 2) *because you had enough money to do so and 3) *because you had a willing legal representative who was also fortunately a ufologist with a grudge against Jenny chose to effectively bully her into apologising for an opinion. If you believe the things you believe Stan you must expect criticism - if that spills over into something a little bit sharp and stinging, well, we're all big boys and girls. Doing the legal equivalent of 'running to daddy' for help shows a certain lack of conviction in either oneself or ones beliefs. British ufology was appalled at the time about the facts of and circumstances surrounding the matter and still is. I would also venture to suggest that had Harry Harris (a ufologist and solicitor) not taken the case on for you no other legal rep. in their right mind would have touched the case with a bargepole. No-one is making a martyr out of Jenny - perhaps you'd like to bore list members even more by posting the M.E.N. article for all to see. Sure, some people would disagree with it, but I'm equally sure they wouldn't see what all the fuss or vindictiveness was about. Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:02:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:32:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Regarding... >Date: 16 Feb 97 11:31:53 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob Shell wrote: >You do not know the length of those 22 reels, some of which may have >been made up of multiple 100 foot rolls spliced together. Bob, I do know what Ray Santilli _claimed_ the length of those 22 reels was. At the Museum of London showing, we were told, "The film you are about to see is taken from 16mm original films on 3 minute-long canisters". I corresponded with George Wingfield and George confirmed, "On June 5th (1995) Santilli told me the following: There were 21 canisters of 3 minutes each plus one canister which contained 8 or 9 minutes of film". John Stepkowski also asked and Ray confirmed, in writing, that there were 22 reels and that, "the reels were 3 minutes in duration apart from scrap reel of 10 mins approximately". I didn't build that argument on a specious foundation. Now that you're aware of the claimed duration of all the reels, perhaps you can understand the basis for the anomalies I have highlighted. Incidentally, your comment to Rebecca that "no important questions were asked" by Bob Kiviat is not my understanding. There were important questions asked, e.g., "Who ordered you to film the "third autopsy?", but they were not answered. James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Re: Asteroids From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:43:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:38:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Asteroids > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Asteroids > Date: Mon, 17 Feb 97 09:03:47 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 19:21:00 -0500 (EST) > >From: "Klemm - Pamela S." <psklemm@umd5.umd.edu> > >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Re: Asteroids > Pam observed that: > >Aug. 16, 1951, in the middle of a rash of meteorites striking > >earth (which according to La Paz was unprecidented in modern > >times) the New York Times reported that Iranian Newspapers > >were reporting 12 deaths, 19 injuries, numerous livestock deaths > >and the destruction of 62 homes from a "rain of meteorites". > >Doesn't that seem like an awful lot of damage from some meteorites? > >Pam > It wouldn't today. In fact that may be what Clinton is up to what > with all the secret space goings own. Can you say I `a told `a you > so? > ~Pat~ According to some of the recent programs on the subject, which seems to be in vogue as the year 2000 approaches, some four tons of space dust and meteorites hit the Earth every hour. Most of that burns up, but about once every four hours a chuck the size of a fist will make it to the ground. While small, it could produce a fair amount of damage to a house or a car, and kill anyone it struck very easily. Since large comets can be broken up as they are contorted while flying close to large "gravity wells" , and asteroids may also become broken into pieces as they collide with other space debris, it would seem to follow that they would be found in large groupings of smaller objects as they travel through space. This is evidenced in the many meteor showers that are predicted each year, and if an unknown swarm of objects were to strike the Earth, it is entirely possible that numerous strikes and deaths could occur. What this might have to do with alleged government activiey in space is unclear in my mind, but who knows.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Bob Kiviat From: Philip Mantle <el51@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 03:57:45 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:31:56 -0500 Subject: Bob Kiviat Hi Errol, One of you out there was loking to contact Bob Kiviat. The only telephone number I have for him is: 818-557-0162. I trust this will be of some use. Yours, Philip Mantle.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: yogi@iadfw.net Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:13:01 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:34:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: 14 Feb 97 10:15:41 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Bob, > I do know that the Truman "read my lips" comment was something Reg Pressley > said. He was apparently quoting Ray on this, because at that point the only > film Reg had seen was the murky "tent footage", and it is obvious that Reg never > saw Truman in that film. Thanks for the additional confirmation on Reg Pressley. :) > Ray's explanation is that he was quoting Jack, who had told him that he would be > able to see Truman clearly enough to read his lips in some of the footage. At > that time only a portion of the film had been made viewable, and everything Jack > had claimed was there, so Ray was enthusiastic that he would have everything > Jack claimed, including scenes with Truman and scenes of the crash recovery > which included a big crane. I know that's what Ray says now, but back when this first started he did not specify that he was ONLY repeating the cameraman's comments. He led us to believe that he personally had witnessed Truman in the film. His comments as quoted by Colin Andrews in his CPRI newsletter that I previously posted confirms this. Ray was quoted by Colin as saying "I had no doubts ... when I saw President Truman." This does NOT imply secondhand knowledge to me. > As Ray later found out, less than half the film he got from Jack could be made > viewable. It is my understanding that the roll of film with "Truman's" on the > label is one of the worst, and is completely stuck together. It may be possible > at some point to unstick this film and recover images from it, but that is not > known at this time. Besides, we don't know what the label may have said. It > may have said something like "Truman's team at the crash site", in which case > Truman himself may not be present. We just don't know. Actually, it doesn't really matter what the label says, does it? Ray claimed that Truman was there at the autopsy and that he had seen him. This is either true or not, and at this point it appears to be a total fabrication. Regards, Bill Ralls
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Alfred's Odd Ode #94 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:49:35 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:39:49 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #94 Apology to MW #94 (For February 19, 1997)=20 Accentuate the positive? And all ~good~ will hold its sway? Read assertive, self help books To maximize your day? Use machines to fuel your fitness? Tune in "Melrose Place" or "Numbers"? Detest those folks on Welfare, Worship sports with all its blunders? Got acid indigestion? Are you bleeding from your rear? Headaches deep inside your head, Or shrill ringing in your ears? Do you go to bed _not_ hungry? Do you say quick prayers that fight? Do you hope it=92s true you=92ll make it through Your terror of the night? Do you hope, and pray that man=92s alone In the starry, stellar reaches? Do you lay at night in abject fright As you winter private beaches? Yourself, you count as blameless; With no part in what=92s divisive? You have no role in racist plays, Un-rare, well planned =96 derisive?=20 You think you=92ve figured out the Jews? Are you truly unaware Of their depth of contribution;=20 It=92s our bounty they=92ve laid there! Are UFO=92s no sense to you? Do you really weigh both sides Of arguments that fake address,=20 As looming truth derides? Do you throw trash from car windows? Do you nerve gas bugs from land? Do you vote your wallet/billfold? Do you wear the coolest brand? Are you left despaired at alters? Do you put the drugs in drinks That loosen up her *attitude* -- Providing sad hi-jinx. Are you mad at harried teachers? Do you think they fail your kid While they work two jobs to make ends meet From Teaching=92s low ball bid? Think the playing field is level? Do you think it=92s bright as tacks, That blacks don=92t "pull themselves by bootstraps"? "They don=92t get up off their ass"? Think Rap is just some jungle noise, Of sociopathic ne=92re do wells? Barbarians at you=92re hallowed gates? Would you wish them all to hell? Do you wonder at the "crazy peoples" In countries like Ruwanda? Do you think it=92s _all_ internal As you simmer in your sauna? Would you have folks _live_ as you do? Would you have them all eat _cake_? Would you have some by for _dinner_ At the _cottage_, or the _lake_? Well =96 if you do here=92s what to do! Your cleansing task is here! The Alien View is left to you, And paradise is clear! Lehmberg@snowhill.com =20 It may not be hyperbole. The Alien View. What would you think in a situation where you could see the merits of both sides of an "issue" with equal clarity. Not the way you are now, where you are on one "side" or "another", but where you perhaps see from a different perspective, both sides. . .as an alien (EBE) might.=20 An example? The militant Moslem so hated as a terrorist ~now~, that was born ~then~ (1099) when hoards of rabid Christians streamed into his homeland from the west -- raping, pillaging, and actually eating his children. After 300 hundred more years of this obscene behavior the militant Moslem is finally born. Remember now, I do not extol the Moslem position, as there is more than enough blame to go around. But that blame does not rest where it should, oft times, I have noticed. < huge flashing Tony Curtis grin, actual little explosions of cold light > Sometimes the blame is misplaced entirely. The Alien View tries to see the mechanics of an "issue". It then tries to make an un-stretched path to an explanation for its genesis. Sometimes the explanation isn=92t pretty. Ignoring the explanation does not address the "issue", however. In fact, it makes it much, much worse. It=92s true you have to pay up front for the Alien View =96 but it=92s honest money, you only have to pay it once (like from your front pocket to your back pocket), and then the Kingdom is truly here at hand. Truly. You don=92t have to buy into _any_ of the *standard* line. . .and there _is_ honest "enigma, wrapped in mystery, buried in riddle." Twitch, Imrie, Fun, Rogers, Adams et. al. turn a calculated blind eye to anomaly. They find it difficult to gaze into the timeless stare of that 2% that we should be pouring every research effort into, and don=92t.=20 <What REALLY happened with the supercollider =96 what _not_ find out?> "It=92s not revisionism, it=92s your new found guilt that hurts you. . ." I=92m not smug, just educated, and self actualized. Sue me. I=92m not averse to counter suit, in any shape, manner or form =96 any time, terrain, and all weather. Any genre, setting, or milieu. I walk shoulders back in this cyberspace, and I can _be_ there. The skeptibunkers create me with the same corrosive societal manipulators they use to create religious bigotry, disrespect for women, persecution of homosexuals, shadow governments, anti-Semitism, inner city schools, and professional wrestling <g>. C=92mon =96 you and me! Let=92s make some noise, and take= the Alien View. Pardon the hyperbole =96 those that are put off by it, but I am sure that there is somehow a bigoted Jew in a shadow government with interests in an inner city school that has a thing for Hulk Hogan =96 he is the exception that proves the rule <g>.=20 --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while simmering at the fundamentalist's stake. Lehmberg plots a benign revenge.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Tampa, Florida UFO Sighting (1967) From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:25:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:41:13 -0500 Subject: Tampa, Florida UFO Sighting (1967) Hi, I have received the following e-mail and am posting it to the list with permission from Brian Raby. Any investigators from Florida who might want to look into this sighting can contact Brian at his e-mail address below. Regards, JJ Mercieca Malta UFO Research http://www.mufor.org/ From: "Brian Raby" <patoloco@inspace.net> To: <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> Subject: RE: UFO Sighting Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:41:03 -0500 Hi, I know I'm about 30 years too late to report this, but at the time I was not even born yet. My mother claims that she and 4 other members of her family saw what seemed to be a UFO flying over Tampa in Florida. She saw this back in the late sixties. If you wanted to know the exact location of this "flying disc"( and I don't know how well known you are with the area of Tampa) it was flying over a TV station antennae very slowly. According to my mother it was no more than 1000 - 2000 feet in the air and it was disc shaped with the top half of the craft resembling shiny windows moving clockwise while the bottom half was moving counter-clockwise. I know my mother would not have mentioned it if she thought it was a hoax and I believe her because she is not one to lie. She has not told many people and did not alert the authorities for fear that they would think she was a nutcase. She also told me that about a week or two later, her brother and herself were stargazing with a telescope and they saw it one last time pass in front of the telescope. They did not get any great details on it as the craft they say appeared to be very very far away. She said that the size of it in the telescope field was about 1/4th of the size of a dime. Anyway, I know I'm way too late too report this but just thought you'd like to know. And by the way, I do think a lot of governments in this world are hiding something. Brian Raby
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 Re: 'Libel' From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@BrunNet.net> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 16:42:38 PST Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:36:33 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' Re Michael Malone. Yes, there was an out of court settlement. There was also a published apology. In the last part "Ms. Randles now acknowledges that the lecture was sincerely and honestly organized and presented by Mr. Harris and Mr. Friedman respectively. She accepts that they are committed and reputable researchers in the field and further acknowledges that the portions of the articles in the Evening News dealing with Mr. Friedman and Mr. Harris were totally untrue. Accordingly she apologizes unreservedly to Mr. Friedman and Mr. Harris for the distress and embarassment caused by her statements." ... earlier "Ms Randles has accepted that her letter was defamatory of Mr.Friedman and Mr. Harris". In short, she has admitted her guilt.. I didn't say the was a convicted defamer. Andy Roberts comment about no other legal rep would have taken the case is more nonsense. We proceeded only because of the opinion of a barrister..Why he keeps repeating absolutely false notions about the case is beyond me.. perhaps to cover up his guilt at getting carried away in defending someone whose behavior even she admitted was reprehensible..? Please remember that the essence of the defamation is that Jenny's claims about views we supposedly held were totally false.. She also at one time claimed the focus was on her disbelief in MJ-12. She didn't even mention MJ-12 in the letter or interview. If anybody has a scanner or wants to bother typing , I would be happy to send the article, the apology and her letter... If anybody "ran to Daddy", it was Jenny.She didn't even dare to show up at the lecture The attitude of the helpers was about as ill founded as a Brigantia article claiming that the name of MJ-12 member Detlev Bronk was an obvious pseudonym. He actually was one of the world's best known scientists as could easily have been determined by a few minutes in a good library.. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 IPP's Latest re UFO HOTLINE Australia From: rossdowe <rossdowe@netlink.net.au> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:08:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:43:52 -0500 Subject: IPP's Latest re UFO HOTLINE Australia IPP National 24hr UFO Hotline Australia Ph: 190 224 3529 New Zealand Ph: 0900 58367 Summary of Australian UFO/UAS reports as @ 24.00 PM 19thFebruary1997 Contact for comment: Ross Dowe (Email. rossdowe@netlink.net.au or rossdowe@hotmail.com ) .Raw Data: 1st February 1997 Tasmania Glengarry. Respondent from Glengarry reports finding some "bright yellow jelly slime" near their home. After many reports of such type of jelly products found around the country late last year and in January, and such events sometimes associated with fireball and storm activity, the respondent called and reported the find (sending photo's). 1st February 1997 NSW Broken Hill 9.45 PM local time. Respondents report sighting 2 bright lights travelling from north west to the south east when one of the objects turned around and headed back on its course to return from where is was first seen. Sometime later @ 9.51PM another object was seen travelling from the south east to the north west and that object also turned around and shot off to the south east. 2nd February 1997 Victoria Woori Yallock @ 9.50PM local time. Respondents report sighting a bright white light travelling from west to east in the northern sky moving very fast taking about 40 seconds to cover east horizon. 3rd February 1997 NSW Albury 9.30 PM local time. Respondents reports a "white light travelling" from north to south in a zig zag fashion. 3rd February 1997 NSW Port Macquarie 10.00PM local time. Respondents report sighting a "large orange object "about the size of a helicopter holding position in the sky for about 10 mins. Before the object shot off to disappear, several smaller yellow lights were noted underneath. 4th February 1997 NSW Yass @ 2.46 am local time. Respondents report sighting "bright orange illuminations" travelling across the sky about 1//2 to 1/4 of the size of the moon. There was no sound and it was heading to the north west. 4th February 1997 NSW Gosford Respondents report sighting a "huge blue white light" east of the Moonie Bridge 7 minutes south of Gosford the illumination or object was in a holding position low to the ground and appeared to be about 2-300 feet across in width. 4TH February 1997 NSW SEAFM In response to callers to the station, the announcer called asking if the hotline had received any reports from the Central coast.. 5th February 1997 Tasmania 12.30PM Local Time. Respondents report sighing "flashing lights" lighting up the Orion belt area. The hotline has received 100's of reports relating to such events in the past 12mths. 5th February 1997 NSW Bogan Gate - (Near Parks) 9.00PM RAAF Respondents report sighting a series of moving "white yellow illuminations" to the north before they travelled to the west and back again. 5th February 1997 ACT Ngunnaiual ?? 9.25PM Local Time. Respondents report sighting some moving "orange and flashing illuminations" travelling in an arch near Orion's Belt. 6th February 1997 NSW Cooma 5.35 am local time. Respondents report sighting "lights buzzing a object" which was heading to the east. 6th February 1997 Western Australia. Perth 7.30PM local time. Respondent reported sighting a "round neon blue green tube shape illumination" in daylight hours before any stars could be seen. The object appeared to be heading to the north east and was in the eastern sky about 40-45degs. up from the horizon. 7th February 1997 Victoria Bairnsdale @ 9.20PM Respondents report sighting a "spinning yellow fireball" heading west. 7th February 1997 Victoria Maffra @ 9.25PM local time.=7F Respondents report sighting a "spinning yellow fireball" heading west towards Melbourne. 7th February 1997 Victoria Barwon Heads @11.00PM Respondents report sighting a moving and "flashing yellow red firball illumination" with a triangular shape on its top,. The object dropped down and then travelled in a north - n/west direction being about 15deg up from the horizon in clear sky. 8th February 1997 Sydney St Georges River @ 8.45 PM Respondents report sighting a "green to yellow fireball" with no tail travelling south in the east sky about 30 deg up from the horizon. There was no sound, the object suddenly stopped and appeared to be about the size of a AAA battery at arms length. 9th February 1997 Queensland Brisbane @ 12.40 am local time.. Respondent report sighting a "orange illumination travelling" about the speed of a light plane, 30 deg up from the horizon in the east. The object was heading south and disappeared around the southern cross. 9th February 1997 Victoria Melbourne St Kilda 9.25 -9.30 PM. Respondents report sighting a "yellow red fireball illumination under cloud cover" heading north travelling about 800 klm no tail was sighted however the fireball seemed to be sparking. 9th February 1997 Queensland. Brisbane Sunnybank @ 11.30pm Respondents report sighting a "yellow orange fireball" with a 45 deg line thought it axis. (top left bottom right) for 10 -15 mins. 50-60 deg up and appeared to get closer before disappearing. 10th February 1997 Queensland Brisbane @ 4.00 AM Respondents report sighting a "blue and red oval shaped illumination" in the western sky about 30 degs. The Illumination appeared to be twice the size of the largest star in the sky. 11th February 1997 Queensland Brisbane 12.02AM Respondents report sighting a "large red pink illumination" around Mt Gravatt (simular to a flare) The object of interest was about 300 mtrs overhead for a period of 5mins. Police were contacted and they also reported that they had some calls also. 11th February 1997 Queensland, Brisbane @ 2.00 AM Respondents report sighting a "series of spilt lights in a triangular formation" heading southward toward the Amberley Airbase area. The line lights appeared at time to be at 45deg to each other \/ and other times formed a /\ tent shape. 11th February 1997 South Australia Adelaide @ 11.30PM Respondents report sighting a "ball of fire that had red blue lights" associated with it. 12th February 1997 NSW Taree @ 1.00AM local time.. Respondents report sighting a "slow moving orange red fireball" heading to the south west, no sound heard. 12th February 1997 NSW Taree @ 2.30 AM. local time. A respondent reports sighting a "fireball travelling" in the sky after being awaken by a TV automatic switching on and off. When the fireball object went out of sight the TV returned to off. 14th February 1997 Victoria Craigieburn @ 11.15 local time.. Respondents report sighting "bright disc shaped light" over unaccusable paddock areas. The object appeared to be like a flying saucer with squarish windows along its side. It held a steady position 2-300 feet above what appeared to be car headlights in the unaccusable paddocks. When the hovering object vanished the lights on the ground then disappeared 4-5 seconds latter. Local Police were contacted. 15th February 1997 Victoria Melbourne Parkville @ 4.40 AM local time.. Respondents report sighting a "red blue illuminations" to the south west. Possible STAR. 15th February 1997 Western Australia Perth Duncraig @ 12.00 NOON Respondents report a 3-5 sec Sun eclipse like effect shadowing their area. The day was very clear and no aircraft were seen or heard. No explanation offered. 15th February 1997 South Australia Lonsdale @8.25PM.local time.. Respondents report sighting a "cigar shaped object" high in the sky travelling west to east. The wingless object appeared to be 3-4 time the size of a Jumbo jet, no sound was heard. Photo were taken. 15th February 1997 Melbourne Whitmans Airship., Whitmans advises that the airship will switch lights on for 15=7F mins. 9.15 -9.30 over Sandown Vic. 15th February 1997 Victoria Eltham 9.30, 9.40, 9.45PM local time.. Respondents report sighting "3 independent bright illuminations" heading in 3 different directions directly overhead.... A: 9.30 heading south east: B: 9.40 heading east C:9.45 heading south east. Possible satellites not Blimp. 15th February 1997 NSW Sydney Quakers Hills 11.25-.35PM local time. Respondents report sighting a "oval orange golden illumination" heading to the north west towards Richmond. The object stopped several times and appeared to be the size of a grape at arms length. Not Blimp. 16th February 1997 Queensland Brisbane Woody Point @ 12.05AM local time.. Respondents report sighting a "orange white line illumination" appearing in and out of cloud coverage directly west of Brisbane city. 16th February 1997 South Australia Adelaide @3.20 AM local time.. Respondents report sighting a " bright white illumination" traversing the sky then suddenly stopped, when it commenced a series of " blue flashes". After inspection by field glass's the object appeared to be a number of smaller lights in a cross shape, with one light in the centre. 16th 17th February 1997 Western Australia Duncraig area " eclipse type shadow". Respondents reported on the 16th and 17th stating that they had experience the same kind of event as on the 15th in Duncraig, in January and on the 18th October 1996. Refer to the matter on the 15th February 1997 @ 12.00 noon. 17th February 1997 Northern Territory, Alice Springs @ 11.20PM local time.. Respondents report sighting an "intensely bright orange fireball illumination travelling" from north east to south east crossing directly over the Space base. The object appeared to be about 20-30000 ft high and was 3 - 4 time larger than he largest of large stars seen at night. 17th February 1997 Mildura @ 11.30PM local time. Respondents spouse reports a very "large and very bright orange illumination" with what appeared to be a large circular "shadow behind it or on top of the orange light". The object travelled low in altitude and headed towards the north west, it appeared to stop a few times before going over the horizon. 18th February 1997 Western Australia Perth, Bull Creek @ 1.00AM local time. Respondents report hearing "3-4 high altitude loud rumbling sounds" passing overhead, heading to the east.. Possible craft heading to the Air show in Victoria. 18th February 1997 South Australia Prospect @ 5.30AM local time.. Respondent reported sighting a "large white illumination travelling" at speed to the north. The illumination appeared to be about 100mtrs above the ground and flew about 1 klm away from the respondent, it appeared to be travelling about 2-300 klm per hour. 18th February 1997 Victoria, Melbourne, Warrandyte @ 10.30 PM Local time. Respondent reports sighting "3 Large bright orange fireballs hovering" overhead, in a triangular formation for 5-10 mins. The illuminations were as large as grapefruit held in your hand at arms length. 19th February 1997 Victoria, Melbourne, Moorabbin - Frankston Whitmans airship was up between 6.15Pm and 10.15PM. 19th February 1997 NSW Sydney @ 5.30AM local time. Respondents reported sighting 3-4 intensely bright "orange ball illuminations rotating each other" or travelling in a spin passing over the Sydney city area towards North Head and then out to sea. The objects were moving at a extremely fast speed , much faster than any aircraft would travel. 19th February 1997 NSW Sydney, Paddington @ 6.45AM local time. Respondent reports seeing "3 large orange glows of light together with hearing some humming" coming from them. The objects seemed to cross over the Bondi area towards the city. 19th February 1997 Victoria, Werribee - Active: Source .Radio 3MMM. Round marks or "scorch earth" has been found on the ground after=7F a number of callers reported odd events in area to 3MMM @ 6.30AM this morning. (Note Airshow time). 19th February 1997 Victoria, East Gippsland, Nicholson. @ 3.45 PM local time. Respondent reports finding a round burn mark or "scorch earth patch" on the side of a dam, on the respondents country property near to the homestead. This is the second such mark found in the last month on the same property, the caller was unaware about the Radio 3MMM event in Werribee this morning.. 19th February 1997 Victoria, Geelong @ 9.20PM local time. Respondents reports sighting a "banana or crest shape orange illuminative object" travelling overhead. The object was sighted for only a short time and it appeared to be heading north west directly towards Ballarat. 19th February 1997 South Australia, Adelaide @ 9.15 PM local time. Respondents reported sighting "5 bright yellow white lights traversing overhead". The first event, 3 lights were in a long triangle formation heading south, the larger and leading light was followed by two smaller lights parallel to each other. The second event, one light was heading north and then intersected another light heading south, the lights crossed each others path and disappeared. 19th February 1997 South Australia, Adelaide, Mt Barker @ 9.10 PM local time. Respondent reports sighting a very "large glowing illumination" much like a meteor however, it did not break up or have a tail. the object appeared to come to ground in the area. 19th February 1997 NSW, Sydney, Annandale @ 9.30PM local time. Respondent reports sighting 2 thin round object travelling overhead to the west 5 mins apart. The object appeared to be in the shape of drum symbols,the first on, went overhead and set off an alarm, and then 5 mins later the same or simular object flew overhead in the same direction. The respondent has seen the "TV ad Mars Attacks" which may account for so many UFO reports tonight 19th February 1997 Victoria, Frankston @ 11.20, 11.30 PM local time. Respondents report sighting a "bunch of 3 lights" heading due west and about 3-400 mtrs. in height. Some 10 mins later a large yellow white light also headed due west..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 19 MIND those black helicopters, now! From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:17:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:42:30 -0500 Subject: MIND those black helicopters, now! Look what I found on the Microsoft site today. What does one make=20 of this? [I take it MIND is short for Microsoft Interactive Developer, an=20 html editor.]=20 Pat _______________________________ From: http://www.microsoft.com/mind/0397/inthisissue0397.htm EDITOR'S NOTE Now we=92re not usually paranoid in these parts. In fact, you may have=20 read the editor's note on these pages last month discussing the various=20 conspiracy theories rampant on the Internet. The day we sent that off=20 to the printers, one of our editors looked out the window on the 18th=20 floor of MIND House. What did she see? Unmarked black helicopters=20 circling our building. We=92re not making this up (and when we say that,=20 we don=92t say it in a Dave Barry way, as an intro to something that=92s=20 entirely made up =97 we really aren't making this up)... ********************************************** ********************************************** * UNUSUAL RESEARCH * * * * http://users1.ee.net/pmason/index.html * ********************************************** **********************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf From: "SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC." <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 03:19:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 01:04:29 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Michael Hockney" <bhockney@vip.net> To: <skywatch@phoenix.net> Subject: COSMIC TOP SECRET / DR. MICHAEL WOLF Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:55:57 -0800 Greetings Everyone... Where to begin? I may be kicking an old can here, but since I've read this article in UFO MAGAZINE titled "Dr. Michael Wolf - Another Bob Lazar?", I've had some questions. This is the first time I've heard of Dr. Wolf. Has anyone else heard of him? The article is interesting, the information is... interesting... even the way the article is writen is... interesting. (Some of the article reads like US Gov. declassified documents... heavily edited. Here is some of the more interesting highlights.. Dr. Michael Wolf - M.D. in Neurology for 30 years, studied pathology because he knew if he wanted to get anywhere and having access to Assessments on EBEs he would need expertice for the US Governments Exobiology programme. Acknowledged to having two Ph.D.'s (Doctor of Science for one) and Neurology. Claims his work in theoretical physics encompassed Wave Partical Duality. His speciality is computer science, molecular computing and organic chemical reactions capable of a billion calculations per cycle. -- spoke of reading "The Assessment" cited by Bob Dean, Wolf went on to say "He is for real" (This being Bob Dean) His work, credentials, expertise led him to Area 51 as a team leader for the scientific aspects of what they were trying to do there- reverse engineering. When asked to comment on Bob Lazar he said, "Bob Lazar has never changed his story one iota..." (Personel note: What the hell does that mean? Klass never changes his story but do we believe him? <g>) Wolf was asked "Did you work with EBEs?" After a pause he replied, "Yes, I did. Bob Lazar said he thought he saw a grey type alien out of the corner of his eye working with scientists... well, I wasn't looking out of the corner of my eye, I was looking straight forward." When asked how they communicated with the aliens: "ESP And there was some effort to form words... I mean, it's like going into the rain forest and discovering a new tribe that has never had contact with the human race before." Hmm... So that's why we call them aliens! Duh, and here I thought they were of the Tazaday tribe... ( remember the lost tribe that was found and later turned out to be a hoax?) Anyway, he continues "Their cosmology, their principals, their culture is based on... is completely and dynamically different then ours. You know, it's very difficult to understand an alien when you say, ' I would like to have one of your ships and sure enough, here it is you've got it!" (I am copying this as I read it, there are jumps in the wording and the logic, I'm not omitting anything in his quotes.) Wolf is asked how long we've had the ships and how many. "Well, I think we have 9 or more, not in working condition..." he never did answer the first question. I became very interested in this article whe he spoke of Roswell. He remembers his father hearing Scuttlebutt to the effect of two ships crashing into each other. When asked about suvivors: "Well, that depends on whether it's the crash of what our government terms "Orange type, Nordic type and Grey type." I think this was a crash of 6 fingered, 6 toes... and Polydactal by the way is a genetic defect, you dont have 6 perefectly formed fingers on each hand because the genetic defect would cause maybe stubs..." There is more but it is redundant. When asked if there were survivors: "I believe there were 2 sets of survivors. There were the orange, which were pink and brown colors - which was an easy label to put on them - pink and brown make orange and then of course the Greys, with four fingers and four digits. There were 2 Orange that I know of that where alive, except one died when he was belted with a rifle handle because they were holding on to boxes that turned out to be gifts..." ON COSMIC TOP SECRET Dr. Wolf was invited to comment on Bob Deans claim to have seen the Assessment labeled Cosmic Top Secret, and Wolf's claim was to have seen the same document. "Well, you know that Cosmic is short for Umbra, Ultra, Wintell or Winnitell... there are a number... Keystone documents, both classified because the waythe information is gathered and Cosmic is kind of a short term that characterizes an Ultra- Umbra classification at the top. He goes on to mention a "Q-LEVEL SEVEN" classification and then comes UMBRA, ULTRA and KEYSTONE. On ALIEN LIAISON The US Government has had relations(treaties) with them. "Was the treaty just done with one group of aliens?" "NO, I think it was done with several. I know the Nordics are pretty much involved with the Greys. The only Grey's I have come in contact with have Dolphin-like skin and personalities to match.... physical effects are just like the dolphins, they want to be touched and cared about." There is more to the article, on why he's now coming forward, to sum it up, I quote, "There are 35-40,000 starving children a day dying on this planet and there are a lot of Hollywood stars and a lot of other people who are very, very concerned with what we are doing to this planet, and what we're doing to the children who are the hope and future of the world" "Which is why you're going public?" "Which is why I'm going public... I've offered a good, well wrtien book, a good book, and all the proceeds go to a children's charity, I'm not making a nickel." (The Book is titled "The Catchers of Heaven") This article is in UFO MAGAZINE and the interview was conducted by James Courant, transcripted by Graham W. Birdsall. ** There was no intention to infringe on the copyrights of the magazine, the author, Dr. Wolf or Mr.Birdsall... I was only sharing this in the hope of trying to get a better understanding of what's really going on out there.** One final thought... It's sad that when people come forward with claims, stories etc. of this nature that we must be cautious, carefully scrutinize and be sceptics to a field we are constantly defending to sceptics. Ironic. But sad. It's sad that when we finally get somewhere, gain some ground, that 'fringy' people come out of the woodwork and knock us back to where we started. With the photographic evidence, with expert testimony and world wide, unified voices, we still are in a constant battle for the truth, justice, acknowledgement. Thank god victims of human crimes with all the same evidence can find justice and closure. I just hope I live to see the day when we as UFOlogists and researchers, believers and abductees can feel the same sence of closure. Michael Hockney ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@phoenix.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 97 16:14:21 cst Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:12:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: 19 Feb 97 00:48:04 EST >From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >>From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >>Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 17:25:56 cst >>Encoding: 60 Text >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Hello Vince, >>So far, all we have is an interesting bit of video, and scads of >>unverified (and demonstrably false) claims made by its promoters. >Could you possibly give me a list of these claims? I am particularly >in those that are "demonstrably false". >I would like to compare it to the lists that I have. I also have a >list of unverified and demonstrably false claims made by the films >opponents and it seems to be so much longer than the list by the >promoters, so I feel that I must be missing some. Hi Theresa, Just a few "demonstrably false" statements from the promoters of the AA caper from the top of my head: 1. How, when, where, and from whom the "film" was acquired (story keeps changing). 2. The amount of "film" and number of reels acquired (story keeps changing). 3. That the "film" has never been independently analyzed to determine its vintage (Bob Shell's sniff test notwithstanding). 4. The identity of the company who performed the "film" to video transfer (story keeps changing). 5. Harry Truman (not!). Also, the fact that one must use quotation marks when referring to the AA "film" speaks loads -- since nobody has yet seen a single frame of film bearing an "alien" image -- only video footage. For details, check out the excellent investigation of this scam by Rebecca Schatte, Bill Rails (sp?), Glenn Joiner, James Easton et al. In the words of the plaintiffs' attorney in the OJ civil trial, "Only the guilty lie." Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Re: Tampa, Florida UFO Sighting (1967) From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:30:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:13:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Tampa, Florida UFO Sighting (1967) >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:25:32 +0100 >To: updates@globalserve.net >From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> >Subject: Tampa, Florida UFO Sighting (1967) >Hi, >I have received the following e-mail and am posting it to the list >with permission from Brian Raby. Any investigators from Florida >who might want to look into this sighting can contact Brian at his >e-mail address below. >Regards, >JJ Mercieca >Malta UFO Research >http://www.mufor.org/ >From: "Brian Raby" <patoloco@inspace.net> >To: <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net> >Subject: RE: UFO Sighting >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:41:03 -0500 >Hi, >I know I'm about 30 years too late to report this, but at the time I was >not even born yet. ....snip.... >Anyway, I know I'm way too late too report this but just thought you'd like >to know. ....snip.... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - JC: Brian, It's never too late as far as I'm concerned. I'll be happy to listen to what you have to say. Is it possible to be a little more precise with the date? I have a personal interest in 1967. I'm not big on theories but I do listen to what people have to say regarding personal experiences. Also, is there anyone that witnessed the original event that wants to talk about it? Sincerely, Jerry Cohen E-mail: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net> Search for other documents from or mentioning: rjcohen | mufor |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 AUFORA News Update - 02-20-97 From: David Watanabe <praetor@spots.ab.ca> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 00:08:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:15:00 -0500 Subject: AUFORA News Update - 02-20-97 AUFORA News Update Thursday, February 20th, 1997 <www.aufora.org> _____________________________ RUSSIAN JOURNALIST REPORTS MILITARY CLASH WITH UFO by Nikolai Lebedev On 25 May 1990, during daytime, a giant disc-shaped object hovered at an altitude of about 1,000 metres above the town of Mary in Turkmenistan, one of the Turkic republics of the former Soviet Union. The object was reddish-orange in colour, with what looked like portholes on the rim, and had an estimated diameter of 300 metres. Military personnel observed it from a distance of no more than 3,000 metres. The airspace in that region was under strict control at the time, due to the war in Afghanistan. All Soviet Air Defence Forces were divided into regional Air Defence armies, and the area around Mary was under the control of the 12th Air Defence Army, whose Air Defence division was under the command of Colonel Anatoli Kurkchy. When informed about the UFO, Kurkchy gave the order to fire three ground-to-air guided missiles at it. The UFO made a slight horizontal maneuvre, and three beams of light which had been coming from its port side disintegrated the missiles. Colonel Kurkchy then gave the order to scramble two 2-seat interceptor aircraft, but at a point about 1,000 metres from the disc they appeared to be thrown to the ground, killing the pilots and destroying the aircraft. Colonel Kurkchy was immediately removed from his post by the Army Command, and proceedings were instituted against him (under Paragraph 1, Item 5 of the Turkmenistan Criminal Procedures Code) by military prosecutors of the 12th Air Defence Army. However, according to my source, who spoke with the military prosecutor's department, the investigations were suddenly halted and all information connected with the event was made secret. Later I learned that the squadron in which the four pilots had served was disbanded. I had difficulty trying to persuade my source to allow me to publish this story, but eventually he agreed. The article appeared in the St Petersburg Evening in November, 1991. I had appealed to those who had observed the disc to write to me at the newspaper office, and I gave my work phone number. Many interesting telephone calls ensued, two of which were particularly important. Both were from the Air Defence Staff of the Leningrad region. The first call was from General Kremenchuk, who stated that the information in the article was totally untrue. Had it been true, he explained, he would have learned about it. He promised to call the Air Defence division in the Mary region and find out if there was any factual basis for the story, asking me to phone him the following week. I did so. General Kremenchuk informed me not only that the Air Defence division had no record of any incidents connected with UFOs or crashed aircraft, but that there was no one in the service by the name of Colonel Kurkchy. The next call came from a lieutenant-colonel under General Kremenchuk, who also promised to try to obtain some information, but added that he did not believe that such an incident could have taken place. A few days later I called him back. Although unable to confirm or deny the information contained in my article, he told me that Colonel Kurkchy did in fact exist and was now commander of the Air Defence division in the large island of Novaya Zemlya (New Land). This northern territory has the second largest proving ground for nuclear weapons in the CIS, and because it is off limits to civilians, it was impossible for me to get an interview with Kurkchy. I should add that if military personnel are required to remain silent about top-secret matters, the KGB compel such personnel to sign an official document which includes a warning that in the event of the security oath being broken, they will be executed without any preliminary judicial inquiry. A retired KGB officer told me recently that there existed (in 1991, at least) a specially trained KGB unit whose task was to relocate those likely to break their security oath. Let me conclude by reaffirming my conviction that the UFO question, seen in the light of extraterrestrials visiting Earth, is our government's most secret problem. It is known for a fact that many civilian and military scientists are directly involved in the study of UFOs but, for the most part, their findings are kept secret. In my opinion, they should be allowed to speak openly about it. It is a crime to insist on concealment: we have a duty as citizens of Earth to contravene the regulations. I am totally convinced that if we were to act openly and quickly, it would be impossible for government agencies to harm those who break their security oaths. __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will NOT be processed. ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: "Dave Briscoe" <oldwolf@cp.duluth.mn.us> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:31:46 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:11:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos Have we decided yet if the film was a hoax? If we have can we drop the subject. And if not what is left to beat the brush with?? Old Wolf There is good reason to doubt a proposition if it conflicts with expert opinion.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:58:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:58:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf > From: "SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC." <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> > Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 03:19:25 -0700 > Subject: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET / DR. MICHAEL WOLF > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > From: "Michael Hockney" <bhockney@vip.net> > To: <skywatch@phoenix.net> > Subject: COSMIC TOP SECRET / DR. MICHAEL WOLF > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:55:57 -0800 > Greetings Everyone... > Where to begin? I may be kicking an old can here, but since I've read > this article in UFO MAGAZINE titled "Dr. Michael Wolf - Another Bob > Lazar?", I've had some questions. [snip] > ON COSMIC TOP SECRET > Dr. Wolf was invited to comment on Bob Deans claim to have seen the > Assessment labeled Cosmic Top Secret, and Wolf's claim was to have seen > the same document. "Well, you know that Cosmic is short for Umbra, > Ultra, Wintell or Winnitell... there are a number... Once again this is like spreading a rumor. Was it Dr. Wolf who got it wrong or the reporter? Or maybe the editor who wants to hype his story? COSMIC is not short for anything. It is part of the of NATO designation for NATO TOP SECRET. Instead of saying NATO TOP SECRET we say COSMIC TOP SECRET. COSMIC tells us that it is NATO material. We know that it requires other handle instructions that US TOP SECRET. We have to take it to the NATO sub-registry to get updates or submit reports of destruction, transfer, etc. to them. If the document is compromised, there are other officials outside the usual Chain of Command that must be informed. COSMIC is not an additional to the classification. It is part of the designation. Warning notice such as WNINTEL, Restricted Data, etc. are in addition to the classification. Warning Notices. (See Army Regulation 380-5, paragraph 4-500). These are items that may require special handling COMSEC, Communications Security materials, are codes and key. There is a different reporting chain for disposition or compromise of these items. WNINTEL (sometimes in the past WINTEL) Warning Notice--Intelligence Sources and Methods Involved is a caveat. This indicates that sensitive means or techniques were used to gain the information. Perhaps someone would died if the information was reveal. Perhaps a continuing sources of information would be compromised, or perhaps the capability of a technical method would be revealed. A made up example: A relative of the load master at an East German rail yard let someone on US side know that a new Soviet artillery weapons will be shipped to the rail yard under canvas covers, but the covers will be removed after dark and the weapon transported to the Soviet military barracks in the area. With this information the US Military Liaison Mission (USMLM) makes a tour of this area at the proper time and is able to secure a photograph using a high tech camera. The US now has a picture of a previously unknown weapon. Next month the Red Army Magazine runs a long article on the new artillery weapon. If the rail yard picture is properly marked the classification authority knows he should not declassify the picture as it might contain some signature which would: 1) compromise the informant, or 2) reveal what type of equipment the USMLM carries with them. The proper warning for this classification would be WNINTEL. Item could be classified SECERT or TOP SECRET and use the WNINTEL addition as a warning. I doubt if ULTRA is used by the US. Perhaps it is, but there is a chance of confusion with other countries designations. ULTRA SECTRO is TOP SECRET for some Spanish speaking nations. UMBRA is not familiar to me. Tom, your comments please. From the foregoing WNINTEL and COSMIC are unrelated and not as asserted by Dr. Wolf the same thing. Perhaps a more critical examination of his other claims is in order. Once again, a little research is called for here. Of course, some people seem to enjoy be hoodwinked over and over again. > Keystone documents, > both classified because the waythe information is gathered and Cosmic >is kind of a short term that characterizes an Ultra- Umbra >classification at the top. Again, wrong! > He goes on to mention a "Q-LEVEL SEVEN" classification > and then comes UMBRA, ULTRA and KEYSTONE. Sounds rather James Bond. There was a "Q" designation for civilian clearance. Just enough truth mixed with imagination to make it sound good to the marks. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Re: 'Libel' From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Feb 97 11:37:11 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:53:15 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Libel' Stan F. wrote: >Re Michael Malone. Yes, there was an out of court settlement. >There was also a published apology. Of course there was! When you stand to lose money just because someone can use the legal machinery to beat you into submission it's *wise* to apologise. It still doesn't alter the fundamental fact which Stan keeps trying to dodge, which is that he doesn't like to be gainsaid in any way, shape or form. Period, as I believe the Americans say. >Andy Roberts comment about no other legal rep would have taken >the case is more nonsense. Popular legal opinion at the time was just to the west of outright hilarity. Fact. But of course you could find a barrister to run with it. Why? Probably had something to do with the hideous sums of money they get from being used to settle people's petty arguments. >.....as a Brigantia article claiming that the name of MJ-12 member >Detlev Bronk was an obvious pseudonym. He actually was one of >the world's best known scientists as could easily have been >determined by a few minutes in a good library.. By Ian Blake if I remember rightly. Who also once wrote about the effectiveness of Mars bars as a consciousness changing agent. Yorkshire humour never did travel very well did it? I think Stan missed the point that many articles in the lamented UFO Brigantia were, how shall we say, 'piss-takes'. It was the 'Brass Eye' of ufology (a UK TV prog). Wasn't Detlev Bronk *actually* an anagram? I won't even go into the laughability of MJ-12, I think it's been laid to rest quite adequately (calm down Stan). I think that not only does the recent 'libel' thread demonstrate that certain ufologists can't take any criticism it amplifies the fact that they haven't got a clue about humour, satire and so on. That's exactly why they invest so much po-faced belief in the things they do. Get some detachment from it all Stan. Just, for once, hang loose and realise it's all just a game. I rest my valise. Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf From: fanning@ibm.net (Kathryn Fanning) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 15:24:08 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:50:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf >From: "SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC." <skywatch@mail.phoenix.net> >Organization: SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL >Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 03:19:25 -0700 >Subject: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET / DR. MICHAEL WOLF >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >From: "Michael Hockney" <bhockney@vip.net> >To: <skywatch@phoenix.net> >Subject: COSMIC TOP SECRET / DR. MICHAEL WOLF >Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:55:57 -0800 >Greetings Everyone... >Where to begin? I may be kicking an old can here, but since I've read >this article in UFO MAGAZINE titled "Dr. Michael Wolf - Another Bob >Lazar?", I've had some questions. > >This is the first time I've heard of Dr. Wolf. Has anyone else heard of >him? The article is interesting, the information is... interesting... >even the way the article is writen is... interesting. (Some of the >article reads like US Gov. declassified documents... heavily edited. > >Here is some of the more interesting highlights.. [BIG Snip!] >Michael Hockney Note from Kathryn Fanning: I don't mean to be unkind, but I wouldn't characterize Catchers of Heaven as well-written (Dr. Wolf's self-review). I found it unreadable. He has couched it in fictional terms, but his technique simply can't be followed. Would have been much better had he stuck with the facts (guess he didn't want to be sued). Just see a copy and you'll understand immediately what I mean by unreadable. Mixture of poetry, anecdotes, scenes that make little sense and a smattering of info on aliens (the latter is all I wanted to read about). I wouldn't mention this, except that I'm still smarting from wasting the money when I could have bought a different book (bought it after hearing him on Chuck Harder's show -- he WAS interesting to listen to, however).> Kathryn Fanning fanning@ibm.net Managing Editor ByLine magazine http://www.ByLineMag.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 'Let's Face the Facts About Flying Saucers' From: bud.sherlock@oln.com Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 16:00:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:01:59 -0500 Subject: 'Let's Face the Facts About Flying Saucers' I just recieved a call from a friend about a second hand book she picked up. It was written by Gabriel Green with Warren Smith. Gabriel Green was the president of " The Amalgamated Flying Saucer Club of America". Title--- Let's Face the Facts About Flying Saucers Date-- 1967 Copyright-- Script Associates Published by -- Popular Library, Toronto. In 1959 John Lester revealed to the Newark Star Ledger about censorship and policies of the Air Force (US) regarding UFO's and civilian pilots. It seems there was up to a $10,000 fine and up to ten years in jail for civilian pilots who discussed UFO's while aboard an aircraft. Sorry that's all I have on this. I thought it would be best to pass it on to those who are researching possible cover-ups on this subject. (original price of the book---60 cents second hand price-------------75 cents) regards to All Bud
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Alfred's Odd Ode #95 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 07:26:15 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:47:54 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #95 Apology to MW #95 (For February 20, 1997)=20 Yeah, that=92s right, I=92m a liberal! But not in the way that you=92d think. I=92m not all that fine with Bill=92s party line I=92m not in the need of a shrink. I _began_ as a =91knee jerk=92 republican. Wrapped in the gauze of failed youth. I=92d learned I was libel to lean on a bible For succor, and favor, and truth. Well, I finished my job in an army. And looking for something to do, I found inspiration, in the stressed perspiration Of a college I=92d somehow construe. Well it didn=92t take long with the reading, And I shake the endeavor with teeth, Much *truth* I=92d been holding, and found so emboldening. . .=20 Was specious, elitist, and weak. Grammar and High School were dodges I found, Of shame so intensely enshrined; They=92d made it all pretty, what turned out real shitty They stretched, and distorted -- they lied. ~The crusades were an honest enterprise ~To take *holy* land back from thieves. ~And J. Edgar Hoover was not an abuser ~IN WAYS THAT EVEN SEEN ARE DISBELIVED! ~It was pulp fiction, this rogue CIA, ~Selling hard dope to societal dregs. ~And policemen caused friction in un-staged restrictions ~Not _creating_ the bad guys, instead. =20 ~UFO=92s define the weak minded! ~The environment is _at_ our command! ~Manifest destiny benefits "all" the people! ~The U.S. is faultless =96 understand? ~=20 So I worked, and I studied all day and in fright And I toiled, and I bled into pages at night. I read from the texts, and the tracts, and the papers I read from strange words I amassed with a stapler. . . I=92ve done it four years, now can never stop doing it. My mind is a sponge, and a muse is imbuing it. The methods, and knowledge, and facts of the ages Are met in my studies of minds, moods and stages. Unlocked, and unfettered, now *free* from disease I bring what was holy to made-of-clay knees. I demand all the answers, and brook no intolerance I rail at rich men=92s elitist incompetence. I find late with life in education that shatters A liberal new ethic that addresses what matters! It is critical, though tolerant in what it construes It is, but of course, my own Alien View. And let me prove irony, pointed out to my friends. Who=92ll rant with the best as regards liberal bends. . . Unwashed and unlearned -- one=92s conservative obsessive, But _constant_ education makes one liberal progressive. Lehmberg@snowhill.com No pithy end notes today, sorry. The above pithed me out. . .and no, that=92s not a lisp. Ah well, it could be . . .whatta=92ya know =96 a pithy end note after all! --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, slow cooking at the fundamentalist's stake. Lehmberg vows to continue his education.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:58:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:00:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > From: "Dave Briscoe" <oldwolf@cp.duluth.mn.us> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos > Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:31:46 -0600 > Have we decided yet if the film was a hoax? If we have can we drop the subject. And if not what is left to beat the brush with?? Because of the annecdotal nature of the infomation we have, nothing has been proven by either side in this debate, but I would agree that we're "spinning wheels" in this discussion. There are certainly more productive areas that can be discussed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Brazilian UFO Footage for Sale From: Pedro Cunha <pplfilho@nutecnet.com.br> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:51:24 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:57:16 -0500 Subject: Brazilian UFO Footage for Sale UFO VIDEO ON SALE The Brasilia's Military Police Corporal Joao Raimundo Galdino is selling the original copy of a video of a UFO seen over Brasilia, Brazil, in August/1996. The case was covered in the Brazilian midia and in other countries. A good report was published in the Brazilian UFO Magazine published by CBPDV (A.J.Gevaerd). The footage is 8 min and 56 seconds long. In the video an airplane (probably a Brazilian Air Force fighter) is seen (at night) approaching the UFO. All contacts should be made to: +55-61-981-4290 ou +55-61-585-5227, or email to CabGald@navigat.ax.apc.org.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Skywatch: Re: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf From: "Stanton T. Friedman" <fsphys@BrunNet.net> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 97 20:11:42 PST Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:03:16 -0500 Subject: Skywatch: Re: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf Concerning Michael Hockney's comments re Michael Wolf. I had spoken to Wolf a number of times several years ago then checked him out after reading the UFO Mag article. He has no degrees from MIT or McGill. Anybody can join NY Academy of Sciences which didn't check his claimed credentials. Neither did the AAAS. Both memberships date only from this decade. He claimed he couldn't reveal his thesis advisor's name from MIT because it would compormise security.. which is nonsense. In short, he is another Lazar, bright and sounds good, but his credentials don't check out at all. Seeking attention though probably less money oriented. I don't think we can believe anything he said (especially about Lazar and Dean) without serious checking. If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 IUFO: Lee Shargel on TV TONIGHT Th, 2/20 From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:43:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:50:30 -0500 Subject: IUFO: Lee Shargel on TV TONIGHT Th, 2/20 An interview with Lee Shargel will be shown on the TV Show "Strange Universe" tonight, Thursday, 2/20/97, beginning at 10:00 PM, on Channel 44 in the San Francisco Bay Area (93440). This program may be important in that Shargel has generated a lot of controversy with his 35 mm slides of the so-called "Roswell Craft" that he says were taken from the gun cameras of a plane in 1947. He also showed other pictures taken from the Hubble Space Telescope recently that show the same shape of craft near the moon and around the Earth, indicating that they are here and were here... The pictures were formally accused of being FRAUD and LIES at the International UFO Congress where they were first shown and discussed at meetings last month in Laughlin, Nevada, and that is where the TV interview by Strange Universe was held - you will see the Colorado River and the River Walk near the Gold River Resort in the TV program. Shargel has also stated other things during his talks and during interviews that have been found out to be lies, including: He said his name was not "Lee Shargel", and it is; He claims to have a Dr. from Northeastern University in whatever, and he does not (we have an official email from NE U.); he claims to have worked on the Hubble Space Telescope while employed by NASA at China Lake, and the HST was never at China Lake; he cannot give any solid evidence of his so-called NASA employment; and so on and so on. A complete summary file on Lee Shargel's claims, including facts that we have found out about him - in response to his own personal dare to the International UFO Congress (and to me) that we DO find out the truth about him - will be emailed to you and posted (hopefully) next week. See the program if you can... Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Feb 97 16:38:44 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:02:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > From: "Michael Hockney" <bhockney@vip.net> > To: <skywatch@phoenix.net> > Subject: COSMIC TOP SECRET / DR. MICHAEL WOLF > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:55:57 -0800 [snip] > This article is in UFO MAGAZINE and the interview was conducted > by James Courant, transcripted by Graham W. Birdsall. [snip] > One final thought... It's sad that when people come forward with > claims, stories etc. of this nature that we must be cautious, > carefully scrutinize and be sceptics to a field we are constantly > defending to sceptics. Ironic. But sad. It's sad that when we > finally get somewhere, gain some ground, that 'fringy' people come > out of the woodwork and knock us back to where we started. Sadder still are the editorial standards of the Birdseed Bros who published this rubbish. It marks a new low in a magazine already guaranteed to give those of culture and taste an astonished guffaw with every turn of the page. Their motives would make interesting reading. So will their reactions to the screams of "disinformation" that ought, on previous form, to be expected from various quarters. best wishes P. Mendoza Brassrubber (A usual suspect) Search for other documents from or mentioning: 101653.2205 | bhockney |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 20 Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf From: Joe McNally <fortean3@easynet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:55:40 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:17:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf >COSMIC is not an additional to the classification. >It is part of the designation. Warning notice such as >WNINTEL, Restricted Data, etc. are in addition to the >classification. Slightly off-topic. I once had the pleasure of watching Nick Pope getting furiously drunk on four pints of lager in an Indian restaurant, and proving *exactly* why government agents are allegedly warned against getting pissed in public. Before the night was out, he was *yelling* a detailed explanation of the British secret service classification system across two tables at a rather baffled Bob Rickard. A faintly amusing note: the British equivalent of "Top Secret" is "Most Secret" - shades of Bill and Ted, no? Joe ----- Nothing in this post is necessarily the opinion of John Brown Publishing or Fortean Times. On a bad day, it might not even be mine. ----- "The Irishman's bullet-hard head crashed straight into the soft jowls of the pudding-like jelly that called itself Blenkinsop." Lionel Fanthorpe, "The Golden Chalice"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 21 Odyssey FTP Site From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:44:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:53:22 -0500 Subject: Odyssey FTP Site The Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network now offers an FTP site. What does that mean? -------------------- It means that you can now access the complete Odyssey file collection using an FTP client application or using your Web Browser. Note: The Odyssey File Request Processor is still available. How does it work? ----------------- Tell your FTP client application to find IP Address: 24.3.12.10 Or, give this to your Web Browser: <ftp://CC636243-A.twsn1.md.home.com> If all goes well, and if you had previously established an Internet connection before trying to access the Odyssey FTP Site, then you will see a directory listing of directories. What do I do then? ------------------ You'll be looking at the actual publically available directories as they exist on the Odyssey Host. Clicking (or double-clicking, depends on your software) on a Directory will open that Directory and display the Files in that Directory. So, what do I do then? ---------------------- Clicking (or double-clicking, depends on your software) will either display more information about the file or it will cause the file to be sent to you. I never heard of FTP before? ---------------------------- Read your Web browser's printed and on-line Help. Accessing an FTP Server from a Web browser is very easy, you'll figure it out. Frequently Asked Questions: --------------------------- Can I download ANY file on the Odyssey FTP site? Of course, if you can see it on the site then you can download it. How many files can I download? As many as you like, but try to be considerate of others and not spend all day logged on. How long will it take to download my file? The Odyssey FTP Site operates a full-time direct 500Kbps connection to the Internet, it won't take long if you've got a fast modem. Old:I want a particular file right now, how can I get it? Call the Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network BBS long distance at 410-321-7461 to download the file. New:I want a particular file right now, how can I get it? Connect to the Odyssey FTP Site and download it immediately. The Odyssey Fringe Science Research Network BBS no longer exists. How do I download lists of the files available? Each file directory will contain two files which are the file listing for that directory. One file will be the text version and the other file will be the text version in compressed format. The text version will have a .BBS extension and the compressed version will have a .ZIP extension. For example, the Photographs & Movies directory will have PICFILES.BBS and PICFILES.ZIP, and one of these files should be downloaded first to assist you in selecting other files. Okay, enough questions, is this available now? Right now. Thanks, take care. John. ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][]) [ ] [ sjpowell@access.digex.net ] [ ] ([]][][][][][][][][][][][][][])
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 21 Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 13:57:05 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:52:07 -0500 Subject: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) In the very interesting interchange between Andy Roberts and Stanton Friedman about a defamation suit brought against Jenny Randles and a Manchester newspaper, Mr Friedman said: >Why not post the article and the letter and the apology? As the affair was some time ago and probably new to many members of this list and as ufology itself has moved on, this list would provide an ideal forum of peers. Could we not see the evidence (so many of us have not) ... the original article and objections ... and let us judge for ourselves. Andy could speak for Jenny (she has no email) Mr Friedman would no doubt argue his own case. This is not a frivolous suggestion as the issues are central to how we challenge the opinions of high-profile 'professional' researchers and whether they have any right to object to being questioned, and whether any of this actually undermines their ability to earn a living or damages their reputation. Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." Charles Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 21 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:56:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:19:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) > Subject: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 13:57:05 -0000 > From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > In the very interesting interchange between Andy Roberts and Stanton > Friedman about a defamation suit brought against Jenny Randles and a > Manchester newspaper, Mr Friedman said: > >Why not post the article and the letter and the apology? > As the affair was some time ago and probably new to many members of > this list and as ufology itself has moved on, this list would provide > an ideal forum of peers. Could we not see the evidence (so many of us > have not) ... the original article and objections ... and let us judge > for ourselves. Andy could speak for Jenny (she has no email) Mr Friedman > would no doubt argue his own case. While I would agree that it would be to the advantage of most of those here to see the original article, apology, and related information, I'm not convinced that an open ended debate on the merits of this issue will serve much of a purpose. Since both parties involved in this debate are obviously biased, the arguements would likely be both predictable and repetitive. > This is not a frivolous suggestion as the issues are central to how we > challenge the opinions of high-profile 'professional' researchers and > whether they have any right to object to being questioned, and whether > any of this actually undermines their ability to earn a living or damages > their reputation. > Bob Rickard - editor > rickard@forteantimes.com > FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com One should not be challanging opinions, but the facts that are used to support those opinions. This becomes a different matter when those "opinions" involve charactor assasination, either directly or indirectly, which can lead to civil suits such as is the case here. We should become involved in some sort of peer review of the facts upon which we base out theories, not a peer review of the personalities involved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 21 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:42:04 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:20:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) Subject: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 97 13:57:05 -0000 From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >In the very interesting interchange between Andy Roberts and Stanton >Friedman about a defamation suit brought against Jenny Randles and a >Manchester newspaper, Mr Friedman said: >Why not post the article and the letter and the apology? <snip> The 'offending' article follows. It rattled Stanton Friedman and his UK solicitor, Sale-based ufologist Harry Harris, enough that they hounded Jenny Randles claiming defamation. This resulted in the loss of several thousands of pounds to the accused. The action also involved a private letter written by Jenny to the Manchester Evening News which was used by Harris as further 'evidence'. Perhaps one colourful expletive would have been sufficient, or for Jenny to have simply ignored the "lunatics"? As I understand it, Jenny has since claimed that she was misquoted, and that, at the very least, her quotes were taken wildly out of context by the newspaper. Manchester Evening News October 28 1989 Jenny in Earthy [Earthly? RI] Battle on UFOs A space invader war has broken out between UFO watchers in Greater Manchester. A meeting featuring an American expert on the subject of crashed UFOs was condemned today as "about as factual as a Steven Spielberg movie." The rocket was fired by Jenny Randles, who claims to be Britain's only "professional ufologist." ZAP! She slated "dangerous and highly suspect non-science" from cultists and crackpots. POW! she blitzed the "absolute nonsense about crashed spaceships and dead aliens" as damaging to sober links between serious ufologists and the scientific community. Jenny, who lives in Heathbank Road, Cheadle Heath, Stockport, poured scorn on a presentation due to be made at Radcliffe Civic Hall on Sunday by Harry Harris of Sale and American UFO fanatic Stanton Friedman. Mr Friedman is a disciple of the theory that an alien space-ship crashed in the New Mexico desert in 1947, since when the US Government has made a secret pact with captive aliens about a quota system for spiriting earthlings away to their planet in the system Zeta Reticuli. "These people claim the only information garnered from having aliens in a freezer for 42 years is that they have a fetish for strawberry ice-cream." she declared. For ten years Jenny has been director of information of the British UFO Research Association, which, along with its Manchester counterpart, is staging its own event at the city's Central Library on November 18. Describing herself as "a kind of UFO agony aunt," Jenny said that 95 per cent of UFO sightings had perfectly logical and mundane explanations. And there was no evidence to link unexplained phenomena with visitations by flying saucers. "Virtually all witnesses are sincere at recounting what they see. But unfortunately, the public perception of UFOs as alien spacecraft - because of the outrageous tripe that gets written - marks them out as some kind of lunatics," she added. She recounted the case of a police officer "hounded out of the force" because he faithfully reported a phenomenon in the Pennines that was hyped by others into a visit from outer space. Jenny said: "Half-baked tales that are never investigated make our task doubly difficult because we have to re-assure the academics that all ufologists are not like that." [end] Rob Irving
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos From: Theresa <70571.1735@CompuServe.COM> Date: 21 Feb 97 22:56:15 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:10:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >From: "Dave Briscoe" <oldwolf@cp.duluth.mn.us> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Autopsy Cameraman photos >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:31:46 -0600 Hello Dave, >Have we decided yet if the film was a hoax? Somewhat. > If we have can we drop the subject. No. > And if not what is left to beat the brush with?? Who did it and why? It's easy to just dismiss things as hoaxes. And as long as people do that, the hoaxes will continue. Regards, Theresa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 DISPATCH #41 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope From: ParaScope@AOL.COM Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 22:07:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 00:25:04 -0500 Subject: DISPATCH #41 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope DISPATCH #41 -- the weekly newsletter of ParaScope S O M E T H I N G S T R A N G E I S H A P P E N I N G 2/21/97 Quote of the Week "The Internet is a smorgasbord of dubious ideas, cryptic theories and suspicious-looking agitpop." -- Andrew Snee, a former friend of ParaScope's founders, commenting in an entertainment magazine editorial on what he perceives to be the worthlessness of online publishing. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Rant of the Week: The Spy, the Shine Boy & the Dead Alien Every week we pick the wackiest, scariest, nastiest or funniest rant from the hundreds of letters received by us here at ParaScope headquarters, and present it to you as our Rant of the Week. If you've spotted a great rant, send it to us. We're very lucky this week to announce that the mysterious alien autopsy cameraman himself claims to have seen our coverage of his photo. Naturally, we have our doubts. Judge for yourselves. This week's rant: "This is indeed a strange way to meet, but the man in the photograph is me. I know for a fact that this photograph of me was taken in Quito Ecuador in November of 1994 while I was having my shoes shined. I suspected at the time that the person behind the shoeshine boy was too curios to be just selling sunglasses, but alas, the truth reveals itself once more and my suspicions have been confirmed. What this also means to me is that my near death experience on the way home from Ecuador was just as I suspected,,,,,,,,,a foiled effort to get rid of me.....hence my dissapearance for the last two years. All I will say at this point is that yes I have a forensic photo/cameraman background, but as you suspect, I did not shoot the footage in question. [Reprinted with spelling and grammar goofs unchanged. Names withheld to protect the ranters.] -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Dandy Doodling Yankee ParaScope is pleased to announce that we will be running the political cartoons of Chuck Dodson on our web site starting with the our current edition. You can view Chuck's first scathing attack on the global status quo by clicking on the cartoon image in the upper-right corner of our home page. Look for more new cartoons every week. If you'd like to have your art featured on ParaScope, send digital image files of your work to parascope@aol.com with the words "art submission" in the subject line. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Join the Revolution Can you smell it? It's the scent of fear! The corporations, power-brokers and media monopolies are running scared as the populist masses take their case to the Net in a digital revolution that is changing the planet. The propaganda war is already underway, and ParaScope is fighting for you! Join the crusade. We have a number of positions open in our ever-expanding empire. Check the job listings at the end of this letter for details. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Coming Up Next Week! Catch all these stories next week on a daily basis on America Online, or all at once next Thursday on the web site! Mon, Feb. 24: Five UFOs Reported Over Gulf Coast On Wednesday, February 5, 1997, at 11:30 p.m., motorists driving north on Texas Highway 36 from Brazoria (population 3,025) spotted a formation of five circular red lights in the sky. One of the motorists was the husband of Nancy Marcum, South Texas regional director of Skywatch International, and she was able to provide a detailed summary of the event. Get the details on the most recent rash of sightings in that region. --------------- Tues, Feb. 25: Nixon Speaks (Again) From Beyond the Grave! Thought you'd heard the last of corruption and chicanery in the Nixon White House? Not by a long shot. Tricky Dick is back in the news, as a steady stream of newly released audio tapes and documents from his administration add more disturbing details to the public record. Dossier sifts the new dirt on Nixon -- a goldmine of data on secret deals, illegal surveillance and political sabotage. --------------- Wed, Feb. 26: The Great American Income Tax Swindle We held this report back an extra week to add a new feature: The Top 10 Ways to Annoy the IRS! Nothing's certain, they say, except death and taxes. If you want to avoid death, there's everything from vitamins and hormones to cryonics and modern religion. But is going H&R Block all we have in the war against taxes? Why do so many huge corporations pay virtually no taxes? What about individuals who simply refuse to participate in the U.S. Treasury's "voluntary" income tax system? There's a lot the IRS doesn't want you to know, and ParaScope has it all. --------------- Thurs, Feb. 27: Final Prophecy of Fatima: Revealed at Last? More than 80 years ago, three peasant children in the tiny village of Fatima, Portugal, allegedly witnessed a series of miraculous visions of the Virgin Mary. The Holy Mother is said to have revealed a number of prophecies to the children, the third of which has never come to pass. Now a Portugese professor believes he has interpreted the third, final prophecy of Fatima... and it's not quite what you'd expect! Is this just an elaborate smokescreen to conceal the true visions of Fatima, or has the third prophecy been revealed? --------------- Fri, Feb. 28: Crack the CIA Protest Report The people of Los Angeles have been plagued for a decade by the scourge of crack cocaine, and new evidence suggesting the CIA may have been involved in importing, popularizing and marketing this deadly drug has motivated a broad cross-section of citizens to speak out. ParaScope has been following this shocking story since the beginning, and will bring you the latest details from the Crack the CIA Protest taking place this Saturday at high noon on the steps of City Hall. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Want to help change the world, or at least a little corner of the online world? Here's your chance. Check out the following positions at ParaScope: Multimedia Maven ParaScope is seeking an intern who can work to create a unique, striking and functional interface design for a professional multimedia CD-ROM project. The intern will learn about the process of creating a multimedia CD-ROM from the ground up, from content creation and programming to packaging and marketing. The candidate must be detail-oriented, able to work on a flexible schedule, and highly self-directed. Good writing and design skills are a plus. Send work samples as well as resume and personal data to: parascope@aol.com with the words "cd-rom help" in your subject line. --------------- Internet Evangelist If you love ParaScope and find yourself constantly telling your friends online about us, why not make it your official hobby!? ParaScope needs help in getting the word out to the rest of the Internet about the great work we're doing. If you constantly contribute to newsgroups and mailing lists and are active and vocal in other nooks and crannies of the Net and you'd like to volunteer to help us publicize ParaScope, drop us a line! Send a note with a bit of personal data to parascope@aol.com with "internet evangelist" in the subject line. --------------- Media Moguls ParaScope will soon be developing a new area devoted to news, reviews and opinions surrounding all the books, magazines, movies, games and other pop culture fixtures that address conspiracies, UFOs and the paranormal. We'd like this area to reflect our readers' views as much as our own, so we're looking for intelligent, informed, opinionated writers to help us cover this burgeoning field. If you have a favorite paranormal TV show, conspiracy zine, classic UFO video or other ParaScope-related pop-culture element you'd like to tell the world about, now's your chance! If you'd like to write for our new ParaScope media/pop-culture area, send us a brief letter and resume, as well as any writing samples you're especially proud of. Submit them to parascope@aol.com with the words "media notes" in your subject line. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Jane, Stop This Crazy Thing! Thought you were tough enough to handle the Dispatch and now you realize you're not? Starting to think you've made a wrong turn off the info highway? Well, we're only going to go over this once, so listen up! To unsubscribe yourself from Dispatch: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: unsubscribe dispatch That's all there is to it! Likewise, if you've received this e-mail from a friend and you'd like to subscribe yourself, just: 1) Send e-mail to: listserv@listserv.aol.com 2) In the body of your mail, type: subscribe dispatch ---------------------------------------- ParaScope 11288 Ventura Blvd., #904 Studio City, CA 91604 America Online -- keyword: parascope parascope@aol.com World-Wide Web -- http://www.parascope.com info@parascope.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) From: UFO Joe <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 01:29:11 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 01:55:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > From: RobIrving@aol.com > Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 16:42:04 -0500 (EST) > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) > Why not post the article and the letter and the apology? I read the article, and to be totally honest, it does seem rather slanderous towards Mr. Friedman. Words like "cultist", and "crackpot" as well as "UFO fanatic Stanton Friedman" were used. As far as I know Mr. Friedman has never subscribed to the theory "that the US Government has made a secret pact with captive aliens" or that aliens have been "in a freezer for 42 years" as well as statements like "Half-baked tales that are never investigated", "outrageous tripe" and "lunatics" were used. While at the same time she refers to herself as "Britans only professional ufologist". While she may be of the opinion that North American Ufologists are a motley crew, she should not have turned this into a character assasination of Stanton. I really hate to piss on your parade, but put into the same situation, I would have sued also, only I might not have settled "out of court" as graciously as Mr. Friedman had. Once such accusations are made, the damage is done, with or without a formal apology. I doubt that Mr. Friedman will ever full recover from the damage done; and the suit itself seems to have brought even further discredit. I wonder how many of you would have sued also? While I feel for Ms. Randles legal problem, protecting one's self from a libel suit is not a very nice or cheap affair, she must be careful when her opinions cross the line and become personal attacks. .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' - Pt 1 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:07:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:07:34 -0500 Subject: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' - Pt 1 Part One >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 02:54:03 -0500 >From: Ashley Rye <Ashley_Rye_Compuserve@compuserve.com> >Subject: IUFO: Cosmic Repost 1/3 >To: "INTERNET:S&M@telos_uk.du" <S&M@telos_uk.dungeon.com> >Cc: Iufo <iufo@world.std.com>, SKYWATCH <skywatch@phoenix.net> In view of the various Threads that are on-going in ufological newsgroups/conferences and Lists concerning Messrs. Good & Oechsler now seems a good time to re-post. It seems certain that Good & Oechsler(Ex-Lax) (Carp Crap, Defender of Guardian and 'retired from ufology') will continue to write dishonest books, blatantly inaccurate articles and make substantial amounts of money misleading the needful uninformed. It is hoped that this Thread contributes to the awareness of 'newbies', who daily log-on and key their praises of the 'work' of these two and to the 'regulars' who need to be remineded of the facts. 'Armen Victorian', the author of the contents of the following series of messages, seems to have written his report in somewhat of a rush and not proofed his work. _Some_ judicious editing to facilitate flow has been done, but context or intent has been compromised. Errol Bruce-Knapp #%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#% * Originally Via : EMMANUEL MARIN - Universites Paris VI/VII Paris - France - MARIN@CCR.JUSSIEU.FR * Originally To : ALL * Originally Posted : 20 Apr 1994 15:18:42 +0200 * Original Subject : Beneath Flop Secret (A.Victorian's review of Good's book) * Originally Posted In: AltParaUFO [ I don't have thoughtfully read the following, and I don't plan too. IMHO, anything related to Good seems to be a waste of time. But this "Armen Victorian" took the time to debunk Good, so it may be a good help for the serious US Ufologists (I *know* there are some) who would like to get rid of such garbage] ================================ Late in September 1991, An envelope from England arrived in the Post Office Box of the UFO Reporting and Information Service. It contained a review of Chapter 10 "Cosmic Journey" from the recent book "Alien Liaison" by Timothy Good. The review raises serious questions about the quality of research done for said chapter of "Alien Liaison," and indeed about the integrity of Mr. Timothy Good. "Alien Liaison" was published in England By Century Publishing; and to the best of my knowledge, it is available in the United States only from Arcturus Book Service of Stone Mountain Georgia. The person who sent the paper is one 'Dr. Armen Victorian.' The name is a pseudonym of an energetic British researcher. He purports to be interested only in verified information, something well appreciated here. Some of Dr. Victorian's work can be read in the recent "UFO Crash/Retrievals: The Inner Sanctum Status Report VI", by Leonard H. Stringfield, privately published, July, 1991. I wrote Dr. Victorian a reply asking about his use of pseudonyms and for permission to post his review on Cufon since it seems, for the most part to be supported by documentation. Dr. Victorian wrote back granting permission to post his review and enclosing some additional related correspondence. The review and associated documents are reproduced below. I emphasize that this document is the work of Dr. Armen Victorian and that he has no connection whatever to CUFON or the UFO Reporting and Information Service. Any opinions expressed, or conclusions stated are those of Dr. Victorian, and are not necessarily those of CUFON, The UFO Reporting and Information Service, Dale Goudie or myself. Jim Klotz CUFON SYSOP ===================================================================== Armen Victorian's Review of Chapter 10 of "Alien Liaison" by Timothy Good and associated documentation/correspondence ===================================================================== UFO Reporting and Information service, Dr. Armen Victorian P.O.Box 832, P.O.Box: 99 Mercer Island, West PDO Washington 98040 Nottingham, NG8 3NT USA England Date: 23 AUG 1991 Dear Sir/Madam, Please find enclosed herewith a copy of the review on Mr. Timothy Good's recent book, Alien Liaison. It would be prudent to study the review prior to passing any judgement based on the your knowledge about Mr. Good. Sincerely, /s/ A. Victorian A. Victorian Encl: As attached ================================================================== A REVIEW OF 'ALIEN LIAISON' : TIMOTHY GOOD ------------------------------------------ By: Armen Victorian August 1991 The publication of 'Alien Liaison' has, in my opinion, put yet another nail in the coffin of UFOlogy which is already suffering from a mountain of distortion and mis-information from 'tabloid' ufologists. "Governments do not have to do any more damage than what many ufologists in search of a few quick bucks or fame are doing themselves to the field. Why are you pointing your fingers continuously at us?", were the comments of one Major General to me. He added, "No longer is it clear who is telling the truth when you guys are quoting us in your 'literature' ", waggling two fingers on each hand in the sign of double-parentheses. Timothy Good's latest book, was published by Century in May, 1991. Soon afterward, Mr. Good received wide media coverage largely due to ONE chapter in his book which added "punch" to make it a best seller. In England, he appeared on TV programs and 'live' radio shows, which, via satellite link, also helped to bring his close associate, Mr. Bob Oechsler into the limelight. Bob Oechsler provided the main substance for 'Cosmic Journey' - Chapter 10. Admiral Lord Peter Hill-Norton, another close ally of Mr. Good, wrote the 'commentary' for the book without properly considering that what he was writing might bear sour fruit. Maybe he thought the title he held almost twenty-two years ago (Admiral of the Fleet - Chief of Defence Staff 1971 - 73) was the endorsement seal of accuracy for the accounts in the book, therefore adding to its controversy as yet another sale-point. Recently, another close ally of Good's, Graham Birdsall, the Editor of 'Quest International UFO Magazine' (which has on it's board a serious, highly respected researcher, Tony Dodd - Director of Investigation and Research) without any consultation with Tony Dodd, dedicated almost eight pages of their recent issue to reviewing Good's book, praising Good as is he's the best thing that ever happened to mankind. As one of their Directors put it, "This guy is turning this magazine into The Tim Good Appreciation Society". But, there are reasons why Birdsall has gone out of his way in praising Good. I was told by yet another senior member of the 'Quest' team that apparently there is a deal between Good and Birdsall. If and when Mr. Birdsall finishes his book (he has been busy writing it during the past three/four weeks), Good will make sure that it gets published. Amongst several pages of Mr. Birdsall's gobbledy-gook, there is one particular passage which caught my eye (P. 25, Quest, Vol. 10, No. 4). Birdsall writes: Objective researchers cannot dismiss the revelations made by some of the most senior figures in United States Intelligence, and one can do nothing but HEAP PRAISE on Timothy Good and his publishers Century, for having the courage to withstand pressure from that same American Intelligence Community that threatened all sorts of legal action if they went ahead and 'named names'. "That" they said, "would breach US national security". On 30 July 1991, I put this point to Mr. Mark Booth of Century Publication, who actually edited Mr. Good's book 'Alien Liaison'. He replied that "there NEVER was any threat of any sort from any quarter. Quite the reverse is accurate. We were worried that maybe the book would not sell after publication". (Recorded telephone conversation with Booth - Author). I was given a copy of the book and was asked to check the veracity and accuracy of one particular chapter, 'Cosmic Journey', Chapter 10. In the following months I contacted every single person that had been named, and those whose names did not appear, for the reason of adding a deliberate twist, creating a sale point for the book. My first contact was with Mr. Bob Oechsler, who apparently was the bonafide, main witness for this chapter. In the very first conversation I had with Mr. Oechsler (Taped, on telephone ), I asked whether he was totally happy and satisfied by the way Mr. Good had put this chapter together. Oechsler answered that he was not, adding that the 'Cosmic Journey Project' was mainly a commercial enterprise, and Good had turned it into something somewhat different. He said he would have preferred to have it worded differently, and not to give the impression to the readership that it is a project, where the government is standing behind Ringling Brothers as a front. In the conversation I had with Oechsler on 10 August 1991, when it was becoming clear that many areas in Chapter 10 raised very serious questions, he said that I should know by now that Good is not a researcher, but an editor who collects material and puts it together. Similar comments about Good were also made by Mr. Jaime Shandrae to Grant Cameron, the Canadian UFO researcher. CHAPTER 10 - COSMIC JOURNEY --------------------------- Good begins this chapter by introducing Admiral Bobby Ray Inman. From there he refers to Oechsler's brief encounter with Admiral Inman, (May 13, 1988, on the grounds of the Science and Technology Center of University of Maryland). Apparently Oechsler, after introducing himself, gave his business card to Admiral Inman, saying "I would be grateful if at some point you might have someone contact me about how I can get closer to MJ12". (See UFO Magazine 'UFO Secret Team? - 'Control Factor' Stymies Ufology' by Vicki Cooper), Good then quotes extracts of Oechsler's telephone conversation with Admiral Inman (The telephone conversation had taken place at 8AM, July 20, 1989. At that time Good was staying with Oechsler - the complete text of this telephone conversation, which included Oechsler's speculation, was faxed to me by Oechsler. The published lines in the book, are somewhat taken out of context. According to Oechsler and Good, they represent the fact that Admiral Inman is heavily involved with the UFO subject and its cover up. One particular question by Oechsler, and Admiral Inman's answer (printed in italics, page 191), has allowed the imagination of both Good and Oechsler to fly wild and loose. Bob Oechsler: "Do you anticipate that any of the recovered vehicles would ever become available for technological research?" Admiral Inman: "Again, I honestly don't know. Ten years ago the answer would have been no. Whether, as time has evolved, they are beginning to become more open on it, there's a possibility. Again Mr. Hineman [retired Deputy Director of Science and Technology Division, CIA] probably would be the best person to put that kind of question to...". Not once is there a single specific reference to the subject of UFOs in the entire text of the telephone conversation. Good, by deliberately not publishing Admiral Inman's letter of Dec. 18, 1989, (see bellow), has twisted the facts, giving a totally fabricated version of the truth. Quote: Dear Mr. Good, Just a short note to thank you for your letters of 17 November and 7 December 1989, and the copy of Admiral Lord Hill-Norton's letter to you. I did receive your book and appreciate your thoughtfulness for sending it. I look forward to reading it in the weeks ahead. Unfortunately, I do not know any information which could be of assistance to you for your UFO report. I would like to take this opportunity to wish you success in your findings. Please pass my very best wishes to Admiral Lord Hill-Norton when you have the opportunity. Sincerely, [Signed] B. R. Inman". After receiving a transcript of that tape-recorded telephone conversation from Oechsler, I asked him if anyone else but Good had listened to that tape. He gave me the name of a Mr. John Dingley. On 14 July 1991, I telephoned Mr. Dingley and asked him whether he had listened to the taped telephone conversation between Admiral Inman and Oechsler. He confirmed that he had listened to the tape and I asked him if the subject of UFOs was mentioned during the course of the conversation? He answered "No". By then I had already written to Admiral Inman, enclosing the pages of the book where he had been mentioned, and asking him for clarification. On 26 July 1991, I received the following letter from Admiral Inman. [Quote] I received your letter of July 1st concerning Timothy Good's book Alien Liaison. I believe all these allegations to be false. Concerning your comments on a group of scientists called MJ12, I have no such awareness and do not believe such a group exists. [Author's note: I deliberately included the MJ12 issue in my letter to him, because Oechsler claims that it was the main lead in.] In summary, the book is filled with fabrication and distortions. My conclusion from the pages I have seen is that the book is without any merit. Signed: B. R. Inman." [Quote ends] After receiving Admiral Inman's letter, I phoned Admiral Lord Hill-Norton on 1 Aug. 1991 and read him Admiral Inman's letter to me and asked what he thought about it. His reply was that what Inman was saying was absurd and that he why he made those comments to Oechsler should be clarified. He added that Inman was covering up, and he was sticking to his comments that, either Inman should shut up or put up with it. (Taped telephone conversation). I was not satisfied by what Admiral Lord Hill-Norton had told me. He gave me the distinct impression of believing everything Tim Good tells him, or gives him to read, and due to some passing comments he made in that regard, I decided to get back to Admiral Inman. From another letter to Admiral Inman, which I faxed to his office, 2 Aug. 1991: [Quote] "As an objective researcher trying to establish the intentions of each party involved in the course of these events, which gave "enough confidence" to the author of the above mentioned book (T. Good), and his assistant Mr. Bob Oechsler, in compiling, studying and editing the data, which he thought to be accurate, there remain a few areas which would require an ultimate clarification by you. What did you think Bob Oechsler was inquiring about? It is still obscure what your understanding was about the topic of the conversation? Perhaps I should add that Bob Oechsler maintains that in his initial approach to you, when he gave you his card, he mentioned to you clearly and briefly that he required your assistance in contacting a member/members of the MJ12. He maintains that you accepted his card, and in a cordial manner "Okayed" it". [End quote] I enclosed a copy of my letter to Admiral Inman with the following covering letter, dated 5 August, 1991 and sent them to Admiral Lord Hill-Norton. [Quote] Dear sir, Enclosed are the two letters I discussed about. There are certainly areas of serious flaws in the manner by which the "data" has been presented by the re-presenters on the main characters in Chapter 10 of the book, "Alien Liaison". It is no secret, which concerns myself and the dignified high ranking officers, whose names have been mentioned, but the truthfulness and exact, factual representation seems to bear some serious questions. Although, by writing my last letter to Admiral Inman, I have tried to ask him to clarify the grey areas, the seriousness of the issue referred to in my previous paragraph over-rules such a request. Signed-Author. _____________________________________________________________________ On 6 August 1991, I received a reply from Admiral Inman, dated 5 Aug. 1991, which I reproduce here in its entirety: Dear Dr. Victorian, In response to the request in your letter dated 2 August 1991 for an "ultimate clarification" by me re Mr. Oechsler, I provide the following: a. I receive hundreds of calling cards each year from individuals who approach me at public appearances. I have no specific recollection of the receipt of a calling card from Mr. Oechsler prior to our telephone conversation. b. I have never heard of any organization called MJ12 nor did I have any understanding from Mr. Oechsler about his seeking information on a specific organization. His use of Admiral Lord Hill-Norton's name was the principal factor in my having a conversation at all with Mr. Oechsler. c. Having no prior knowledge of Mr. Oechsler's interest, I did not understand until well into his dialogue that his research was about Unidentified Flying Objects. d. Throughout 22 years of service in intelligence community, I have never encountered any credible evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial or interplanetary entities, individuals, crafts, vehicles, or persons. I do not believe any credible evidence of such activity exists. I have been advised by Rear Admiral Shapiro that Mr. Oechsler totally misrepresented both the nature and content of their conversation. I remain persuaded that complete misrepresentation of my views and those of Rear Admiral Shapiro has occurred and thus I distrust any and all stories and conclusions that have been conveyed. I hope you will entertain no further doubts about my views. Sincerely, [signed] B. R. Inman After the receipt of the above letter, there was still one clause which required yet further clarification by Admiral Inman.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' - Pt 2 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:09:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 02:09:11 -0500 Subject: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' - Pt 2 Part Two The word "dialogue", could have a broad interpretation. I needed to know what precisely Admiral Inman meant by that. On August 12, 1991 I contacted Admiral Inman's office, and I spoke to Mr. Tom King, the Executive Assistant to Admiral Inman. I explained to him the nature of my inquiry, asking him for further clarification by Admiral Inman. I was asked to contact him the following day. On August 13, 1991, I was told by Mr. Tom King, that I can go on the record with what he was told by Admiral Inman. In response to my inquiry, Mr. King said: "What Admiral Inman meant in clause (C) of his last letter to you (5AUG. 1991), is that, only after Mr. Oechsler had spoken with Rear Admiral Shapiro, in pursuit of his inquiry, had it become clear to Admiral Inman, through Rear Admiral Shapiro, that Mr. Oechsler's inquiry was about UFOs. Admiral Inman had absolutely no prior knowledge of the topic of Mr. Oechsler inquiry before that." I had already contacted Rear Admiral Sumner Shapiro (Retired, ONI Director) on August 3, 1991 and I asked Rear Admiral Shapiro whether he met Bob Oechsler. He replied "He claims to have met me". I repeated my question. He answered; "He met me on one occasion and I realized that he was a fraud. He had arranged a meeting with me under fraudulent circumstances, and I dismissed him almost immediately. I never had a meeting with him in a restaurant...." [See p. 195, where Oechsler alleges that he met with Rear Admiral Shapiro for the first time in a restaurant] ".....as he is suggesting in that book. I never discussed any of that material with him." I then asked Rear Admiral Shapiro what Oechsler introduced himself as? He answered "He introduced himself as a[n] independent..... he didn't even describe what he was doing initially in order to see me. He said that he had been referred to me by somebody [Inman] that should contact me. I tried to contact that person to verify, he was out of the country. I finally agreed that I would meet him. And then, all he had was his card that described himself as some sort of a robotic expert or something. You know, a complete sham." [Tape recorded conversation]. I then contacted Mr. Robert W. Kirchgessner, who was the Director of Special Development Group, Ringling Bros. & Barnum and Bailey, at that time. Mr. Kirchgessner, with his direct answers, cast a great deal of light on the subject matter, thereby revealing the length and breadth of distortions Good and Oechsler went to present THEIR own version of 'Cosmic Journey'. I asked Mr. Kirchgessner to describe what took place in the course of their contacts with Oechsler and Good. He said: "Robert Oechsler's situation is ah, let me put it like this... Robert Oechsler was recommended to us by Timothy Good, we met with the man ONE time. We determined very very quickly that he was a total INCOMPETENT." "This fact is illustrated when the gentleman approached us, coming in and telling us everything from the fact that he could deliver us a UFO, to whether he had a government agency watching him." "We were sitting in a restaurant here in Orlando with him. We invited him down here, paying all his costs, to speak to him....." [This particular factor was confirmed to me by Mr. Robert Kenneston, in a separate telephone conversation with him in his Los Angeles office, on 12 Aug. 1991 {tape recorded conversation}. Mr. Kenneston was a witness to that meeting, and held a separate discussion with Oechsler, as part of the same meeting.] ".....trying to do the best research that we could. And he perceives and comes out with the statement that the CIA people are tracking him and they were sitting and watching him in the restaurant." "The man was...he was not in touch with reality at the time in my opinion. We had elected not to proceed with him in any way, shape or form. The only question that I felt remaining with the call that I received regarding Robert Oechsler, was whether or not somebody else in the Ringling Corporation had hired him to do additional research without my knowledge. Which was always possible within our company". Author: "Yes, Mr. Chuck Smith..." "...right, Chuck Smith was my immediate superior. Chuck met various people, he usually would utilize them to continue to look into subject matters, if they had any knowledge at all. To my knowledge at this time, he had never spoken to nor had he been in communication with, nor had gone any further than my initial confidential report to him, stating that this (Mr. Oechsler) is one gentleman that we should NOT do business with. And to this date that is the position that Chuck has taken in regards to this." I asked Mr. Kirchgessner how Timothy Good became involved? He replied that they decided not to have anything to do with Good due to the high fees he had asked for. Mr. Kirchgessner's answer to this question is quite contradictory to what Good has written in his book. On page 151 of 'Alien Liasons', Good writes: [Quote] Following further discussions, I was invited to become the 'Official Consultant on UFO research' to the Special Development group. A personal meeting in Orlando, Florida, was pre-requisite, the director said, and since I would be visiting Gulf Breeze during October, I made arrangements to fly to Orlando. Unfortunately, DIFFICULTIES with airline scheduling arose, allowing inadequate time for the trip, and I was obliged to postpone the meeting. [End quote] I put to Mr. Kirchgessner what Mr. Good had published, he said "It is simply not true, we dropped him because of the sums he was asking as his fees. Then Mr. Robert Oechsler appeared on the horizon." Mr. Kirchgessner told me that Oechsler had asked for either $1200 or $2000 per day for his work (he couldn't remember the exact figure off-hand). He had added that they asked Captain Gene Cernan, ex-NASA astronaut, who is a director on their Board, to check Oechsler's credentials regarding his NASA background. Cernan reported that Oechsler had NEVER held the position he claims in NASA, but that it was possible that he had worked as a junior technician either with NASA or with a NASA sub-contractor, in which case his name would not have been known anyway. I called Gene Cernan on 8 Aug. 1991. After confirming what Mr. Kirchgessner had said was correct, Cernan added that the 'Cosmic Journey' project never went any further than the drawing board. (Taped telephone conversation). The day before, 7 Aug. 1991, I contacted Miss Susan Brewer, who works with Mr. Kirchgessner and was a witness to the Orlando meeting, between Oechsler and the Ringling Bros people. I read her the passage on page 197 of 'Alien Liaison' in which Good states that the project ('Cosmic Journey') had the approval of President Bush and Vice-President Quayle. She answered: "As far as Bob (Kirchgessner) is concerned, when he worked with Gene Cernan, Cernan presented the project to Vice President Quayle representing President Bush, then yes, I would assume it would go to the top." [Note: The way in which Good has referred to this point in his book adds more vigor to his version of the story, as to 'Cosmic Journey' initially being a government based project]. She further added "Let me tell you that when Mr. Oechsler came here to Orlando, I was present. We were very kind and polite, but we realized that he was a little off the wall". I also put to her what Mr. Kirchgessner had told me about Oechsler's promise to provide them with a genuine UFO. She immediately said, "A genuine UFO plus a spaceship". I asked her whether it was in writing or verbal. She replied "Verbal, but there were four other people at the table, you know, they fell off their chairs!". I asked if she could give me their names as a matter of record. She answered, "I was one of them, the other young man was Brownell Schlubach. He used to work with us at SDG, Bob Kirchgessner, and the other gentleman's name was Don Branch, the Manager of Design for SDG". She further added that "after we realized what sort of person we were dealing with, we would not have anything more to do with a person with such a fanatical presentation". Following my inquiries into other areas of chapter 10, Cosmic Journey, I was quite intrigued by what Good had written about 'THE PENTAGON MEETING' (See p.198 - 201, 'Alien Liaison'). I was determined to locate the 'GENERAL' who had apparently scared the life out of Oechsler. Oechsler had stated in the course of one of his telephone conversations with me that, whilst in Florida the Ringling Brother's team had told him that a variety of people were involved, and that their names were mentioned to him. A week after returning from Florida he received a call from the 'General'. He added that he would not like to "Fuck around" with that General, after his alleged encounter experience of November 17, 1989. (Taped telephone conversation with Mr. Oechsler 7 Aug. 1991) "While resting in a Dallas cocktail lounge", that he still thinks was the General's doing. Good illustrates Oechsler's impressions and thoughts relating to this 'Alien Intrusion':- The sensation in the back of Bob's head reminded him of the security machine at the Pentagon, which had induced a 'tingling' sensation at the back of his head. Was there some connection perhaps? (See p. 202 in the book). With the help of the members of our research group, I managed to discover the identity of the 'General' concerned. Oechsler, independently, in the course of our telephone conversation on Aug. 9, 1991, confirmed our finding by revealing his name to me. Further, Oechsler emphasized, that he did not want his name to be mentioned in the course of my inquiry with the 'General'. (Taped telephone conversation). On August 8, 1991, I contacted Lt. General Thomas P. Stafford, the distinguished ex-NASA astronaut in his Oklahoma office. He was the alleged 'General' in Good's book. I mentioned to Tom Stafford that I had received a copy of the 'Cosmic Journey' project (from Good's book), and understood that he had met Oechsler on November 13, 1989, in order to discuss the project with him. He answered that he did not remember meeting Oechsler. I pointed out that at that particular meeting, one of the topics was about the type of alien/ET to be put on show in a cryogenic tank (See p. 199, 'Alien Liaison'). I asked him whether he recalled that. He said that he did not remember. He then asked me about the date of the meeting. After I gave him the date he said he could not remember such a meeting. Then he asked where the meeting was supposed to have taken place. I told him the Pentagon. I then proceeded to try to refresh his memory, and referred to the security device that Oechsler had apparently passed through, and discussed with the General [See p. 199]. He replied "Bullshit. Tingling?" I answered yes, and quoted from the book on page 198 of the book. He asked by whom. I replied by Oechsler. General Stafford, in reply to my question that I had repeated again - referring to exhibiting a alien corpse in a cryogenic tank - replied "I don't remember Mr. Oechsler and don't know anything about it". He later added again that he has just finished an eleven month study for the White House and NASA about how to get back to the Moon and Mars, which he had referred to very briefly at the beginning. And added that he didn't know what I was talking about. I told him about Good's publication, and added that although he had not been mentioned by name, the 'General' in the passage is him. I told him that Oechsler himself had confirmed this to me. He said that he instigated the Stealth bomber and "Sure, I started the F-117A fighter, but that was years ago". Although he goes to the Pentagon occasionally to meet friends, he does not have an office there. I put it to him that, according to Oechsler, his office was in the basement section of the Pentagon, where Oechsler allegedly met with him. I asked him "Am I correct, or do I have the wrong information?" He answered "You've got the wrong information. I was down at SDI in Star Wars. I was down there occasionally, but I have no office there". In reply to my question about his knowledge of the alien entities, he answered, that he had never seen them, although he had been into space four times. When I questioned him as to whether he had any evidence about flying saucers, he said "Hell NO". (Taped telephone conversation with Thomas P. Stafford) ANTI-GRAVITY CHAMBER -------------------- It was not difficult to locate the facilities Good has written (see P. 202/3/4, in the book). The complex which Oechsler claims to have been taken to "during the second week of January 1990" exists. I asked Linda Billica, Assistant Test Director for The Reduced Gravity Office, NASA, who actually works in that facility for: "...some information about your Anti-Gravity Chamber, is it operational now?" She replied "Anti-Gravity Chamber, you mean our aircraft?" After I explained to her exactly what I was looking for, she replied "There is NO anti gravity chamber as such. We do have an airplane which flies parabolas and we can provide a half minute or so at each time." I then referred to the book, and read out the passage to her. She replied "There is absolutely NO anti-gravity chamber here. She went on to explain in more detail about the KC-135 Boeing, padded aircraft which is used for training the NASA astronauts. I told her that I would fax to her the passage from the book and asked if she would care to provide me, in writing, what she had just told me. She had no objections. I am now in the process of looking into the events which allegedly took place on the NORAD Platform. Based on my inquiries so far, there is no credible evidence to prove what Good has written in Chapter 10 is based on fact. I should also remind readers that the people that I have talked to were unaware of the publication of Timothy Good's book. And although Good has thanked a great many people in his book, and has sent copies of his book to the majority of them, he has failed to do the same for other people I have talked to. Equally important, every serious piece of research is only credible when it has been reviewed and verified by those people whose roles and names constitute the back-bone of the researcher's findings. In fulfilling his obligations in this regard, Good has been discriminately selective. Whilst a chosen few have been addressed for their approval of his writing about them, such as Oechsler, a great many have deliberately and intentionally been ignored. Ironically, even from those whom Good had asked for approval of his writing about them, some chose to ignore him. Colonel William Coleman, for example, as a mark of protest, decided to neither reply nor approve the material. His protest went unheeded. Good as with others, decided to go ahead and include a part about Colonel Coleman. Colonel Coleman is still critical of what Good published about him in his previous book, 'Above Top Secret'. Good had promised to put the record straight in the re-print, but did not. I think ufologists should know that 'out there' are some unscrupulous 'tabloid' writers, for whom morality is weighed by the sum of money they obtain from their output. In their books, everyone seems to be expendable. END. ================================================================= SAI Science Applications International Corporation An Employee Owned Company July 26, 1991 Dr. Armen Victorian P. O. Box 99 West PDO Nottingham, NG8 3NT England Dear Dr. Victorian, I received your letter of July 1st concerning Timothy Good's book Alien Liaison. I believe all these allegations to be false. Concerning your comments on a group of scientists called MJ12, I have no such awareness and do not believe such a group exists. In summary, the book is filled with fabrication and distortions. My conclusion from the pages I have seen is that the book is without any merit. Sincerely /s/ B. R. Inman B. R. Inman 9442 Capitol of Texas Highway North, Arboretum Plaza One, Suite 685, Austin Texas 78759 (512) 343-2200 ==================================================================== SAIC Science Applications International Corporation An Employee Owned Company August 5, 1991 Dr. Armen Victorian P. O. Box 99 West PDO Nottingham, NG8 3NT England Dear Dr. Victorian, In response to the request in your letter dated 2 August 1991 for an "ultimate clarification" by me re Mr. Oechsler, I provide the following: a. I receive hundreds of calling cards each year from individuals who approach me at public appearances. I have no specific recollection of the receipt of a calling card from Mr. Oechsler prior to our telephone conversation. b. I have never heard of any organization called MJ12 nor did I have any understanding from Mr. Oechsler about his seeking information on a specific organization. His use of Admiral Lord Hill-Norton's name was the principal factor in my having a conversation at all with Mr. Oechsler. c. Having no prior knowledge of Mr. Oechsler's interest, I did not understand until well into his dialogue that his research was about Unidentified Flying Objects. d. Throughout 22 years of service in intelligence community, I have never encountered any credible evidence of the existence of extraterrestrial or interplanetary entities, individuals, craft, vehicles, or persons. I do not believe any credible evidence of such activity exists. I have been advised by Rear Admiral Shapiro that Mr. Oechsler totally misrepresented both the nature and content of their conversation. I remain persuaded that complete misrepresentation of my views and those of Rear Admiral Shapiro has occurred and thus I distrust any and all stories and conclusions that have been conveyed. I hope you will entertain no further doubts about my views. Sincerely, /s/ B. R. Inman B. R. Inman 9442 Capitol of Texas Highway North, Arboretum Plaza One, Suite 685, Austin Texas 78759 (512) 343-2200 ==================================================================== Linda W. Billica NASA Johnson Space Center CC32 Houston, TX 77058 August 12, 1991 Dr. Armen Victorian P. O. Box 99 West PDO Nottingham, NG8 3NT England Dear Dr. Victorian, The material you sent me from the book, Alien Liaison, is not based on fact: 1. No one by the name of Bob Oechsler was ever manifested to fly with us on the KC-135. 2. Ellington Field has been an Air Force Base since 1976. 3. There are no billeting facilities at Ellington Field. 4. The shuttle's Remote Manipulator System (the "arm") was designed by Canada, has been operating for years, and has never required any such "reconfiguration." 5. NASA has no "anti-gravity chamber" anywhere. As I explained over the phone, we fly a KC-135 aircraft in a series of parabolas to obtain short periods of microgravity. 6. Protein crystals have nothing to do with superconductive materials. 7. NASA has no "bunker-like building north of Houston" and no "alien craft." 8. Absolutely no effort is underway to design or build any "ground-based anti-gravity chamber." I'm sorry Dr. Victorian, but Alien Liaison is hogwash. I do not wish to have my name or my organization's name associated with it in any way. Sincerely, /s/ Linda W. Billica Linda W. Billica ==================================================================== Following are the additional letters forwarded by Dr. Victorian in his reply ==================================================================== National Aeronautics and NASA Space Administration John F. Kennedy Space Center Kennedy Space Center, Florida 32899 PA-B September 26, 1991 Mr. S. E. Victorian P. O. Box 99 West PDO Nottingham, NG8 3NT England Dear Mr. Victorian: This is in response to your request to the FOIA Office at NASA Headquarters for records pertaining to "COSMIC JOURNEY." No Agency records can be identified or located at Kennedy Space Center responsive to your request. If you think Rockwell International was involved in the project, you might wish to address a request to them. Sincerely, /s/ Mary Jo Tippett Mary Jo Tippett FOIA Administrator ====================================================================== Letter from A. Victorian to Dennis Stacy ====================================================================== Mr Dennis Stacy, Dr. Armen Victorian Editor, MUFON Journal P. O. Box 99 Box 12434 West PDO San Antonio, TX 78214 Nottingham, NG8 3NT USA England Date: 04 OCT 1991 Dear Mr. Stacy, Mr. Good's reply to Mr. Johnson's review of his book is quite hilarious. There are some very serious flaws in Good's response. Once again he has deliberately twisted the facts to suit his requirement. I would like to respond to the points Mr. Good has raised in his letter in the order they are mentioned: I have a TAPED TELEPHONE CONVERSATION with the editor of Good's book. He CONFIRMS that there NEVER were any threats of any kind from any quarter. In fact they were worried that the book might not go down well. Indeed, if there would be any forthcoming threats or prosecution I can assure Mr. Good that it would not be for his alleged "Violation of US National Security" by the officers implicated in his "Tale of the Two Cities", but for representing a distorted and fabricated version of FACTS by he and Oechsler, in his book. I should add that, during my research into the veracity and accuracy of Chapter 10, "Cosmic Journey", I was told on more than one occasion and by more than one high-ranking officer that they reserve the right to press charges. The main bulk of research on other cases that Good has referred to was conducted by other researchers. Good has merely copied them without even checking their accuracy or validity. In fact Good's version of a Puerto Rican case, which he has written more extensively in his report 1991 and his current book, has some serious inaccuracies. Furthermore, the credibility of some of the so-called researchers he has made reference to, is highly questionable. Not to mention that by equating these groups of opportunity seekers with other serious, good researchers, he in fact has insulted the entire field. He takes pride of the praise of a third rate tabloid paper in Britain, The Glasgow Herald. Quite rightly so because for the first time he has been praised by a paper of his own grade of work. I dare to say that they are two of a kind. He claims that Admiral Inman has conceded as to the topic of conversation, as he and Oechsler claim (UFOs). Once again, by distorting the facts he is fabricating a twisted agenda, totally out of context, as his proof. Tim Good is indirectly referring to Admiral Inman's second comprehensive letter to me (See my review report). What Good deliberately fails to qualify is the fact that Admiral Inman has clarified that particular clause of his letter even further. Good, in an insidious manner, has hidden the fact that neither Admiral Inman nor Rear Admiral Shapiro could make heads or tails of what Oechsler was talking about, until Oechsler took out the model of the alleged 'alien head', when Sam Shapiro understood what Oechsler had been trying to convey. After that it did not take long before Mr. Oechsler was out of the house. Admiral Inman has clearly clarified this point. As to Ringling Corporation's involvement, there is absolutely nothing to hide. Here again, Mr. Good points the finger at the Ringling Corporation, accusing them of a cover up. He does not have the courage to explain the truth. There NEVER was any problem with the airline schedules, as Tim Good claims is his excuse for not having been able to attend the meeting. What Good says is poppy-cock. He was dropped because of his greed and enormous appetite for MONEY. Apparently what he had asked for was utterly ridiculous. That equally applies to his colleague Bob Oechsler, a junior ex-technician with a NASA sub-contractor. Mr. Oechsler had asked for over $1200 per/day as his fees. I would like to ask a question of the gang of two. If their wishes were fulfilled, and Ringling Brothers had forked out the sums they were looking for, would they still accuse them of a cover-up, or would they have been praised for excellent work, uncovering the cover-ups? Good accused Mr. Johnson for ulterior motives. Whilst it is he himself who, with false pretences and claims to be the provider of "crucial evidence" that he has failed to come up with, had the ulterior motives. Ringling Corporation offered to provide him with a perfect platform to further the research. Instead greed overcame the shallow veneer of research. It is quite shameful to witness some researchers, who are supposed to be a leading example to the UFO community, resort instead to such methods of self promotion. Sincerely, /s/ A. V. A. Victorian CC: File. ====================================================================== --------------------------- C U F O N --------------------------- Computer UFO Network Seattle Washington, USA (206) 776-0382 8 Data Bits, No Parity, 1 Stop Bit 300/1200/2400bps. SYSOP - Jim Klotz Information Director - Dale Goudie UFO Reporting and Information Service Voice Line - (206) 721-5035 P.O.Box 832, Mercer Island, WA 98040, USA - Please credit CUFON as the source of this material - ====================================================================== #%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#% <<<>>>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 BWW Media Alert 970221 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:06:56 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 03:23:13 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970221 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) NOTE: Delayed by a day by these darn technical difficulties...well, almost a day. February 21, 1997 I'm still in the midst of e-mail difficulties, so this may be an abbreviated version. It all came about when I upgraded one of my home computers to AOL 3.0. I can still read my e-mail on the computer in my six-year old's room, but as you might imagine, I don't have a lot of access to that one :) . On to what listings I have... FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see the excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. Mr. Drysdale stages a sighting to drum up publicity on THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES in the episode entitled simply, "The Flying Saucer". TBS has it 5:05 AM Pacific (times are generally Pacific here) on Monday. Is Chuckie really an alien? See RUGRATS on Nickelodeon on Thurdsay at 9:00 am to find out. I think your kids can get exposed to a pro-Nessie viewpoint almost every week. This time, on RUPERT on Rugrats on Friday at 10:00 AM, in an episode called "Rupert and Nessie". YOGI AND THE INVASION OF THE SPACE BEARS has clones of Yogi and Boo Boo. Disney is running it Thursday at 8:25 PM. In further proof that Disney isn't just Disney any more, it funs SCOOBY AND THE RELUCTANT WEREWOLF on Saturday at 11:30 AM (Shaggy is turned into a werewolf...or should that be "rarerolf"?). If somebody doesn't watch MAGIC IN THE WATER pretty soon, Showtime 2 may stop running it ;) . This is a movie starring Mark Harmon and centering on a lake monster. It runs on Tuesday at 2:05 AM, Tuesday at 4:00 AM, and Tuesday at 12:45 PM. PERIODICALS BEYOND BOUNDARIES #3, January/February 1997. Do you think this "weird stuff" is a trip? It can be, with Beyond Boundaries travel agency. Besides booking trips to see UFOs and Chupacabras, among other things, Joyce Murphy has also started putting out this newsletter. It's quite good, having an extensive news section and many graphics. This issue includes: a feature on comet Hale-Bopp and its possible companion; International News; Mexico Expedition Report; Meet Roy Dutton; High Strangeness in America's Heartland by Bob Buck; various tidbits, including one on astronaut UFO sightings; letters; and a Macrihanish update, etc. Write them at P O Box 250, Rainbow Texas, 76077, call them at 1-800-259-8747, e-mail Joyce at jmurphy@onramp.net. Tell 'em Bufo sent you. RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website (at http://www.endoftheline.com). However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week, I hear. You can listen to it on your computer: go to http://www.talkamerica.com SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: --week of 2/17, massage cures spinal disease; missed plane crashes --week of 2/24, lost kid helped by angels; and I have to quote this one :) "a mother prays at the moment of her son's accident.." Gee, was it for or against? Just asking... PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --This week's special hour long episode (THE LIGHT) includes the evil double of one of the team wrecking havoc. Remember, these are allegedly based on real happenings. See also MM&M on Tuesday. Saturday, February 22 SYNDICATED RADIO, THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24: No details available. LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: no details available 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: GIANTS FOR THE GODS (the Nazca lines in Peru, for example) Sunday, February 23 SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: Art interviews Richard Noone, author of 5/5/2000 ICE THE ULTIMATE DISASTER (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 2:00 PM, A&E, THE UNEXPLAINED, THE MYSTERY OF THE CRYSTAL SKULLS 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5055): MANTELL RE-EXAMINED (an air force pilot died chasing a UFO in this famous case); 1947 (no, not about Roswell or Kenneth Arnold...about past lives, including a sculptor whose art is allegedly inspired by a past life); OLIVAS HAUNTING; OMEN IN THE SKY (Hawaiian mystical predictions) 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD, SQUARING THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE Monday, February 24 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: PYRAMID MYSTERY (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY (no details available) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#31); DRACULA; CRYPTOZOOLOGY (bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, etc.); BUSHMEN (No, not Kate Bush's back-up band, or Dan Quayle and friends...about a low-tech society in Africa) Tuesday, February 25 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: YOGIC FLYING (can you learn to levitate?) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#32): DOPPELGANGER (see also PSI FACTOR); SUPERSTITIONS: JENNY COCKELL (past life recall) 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, CHILDREN OF THE CORN (crop circles) Wednesday, February 26 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: UNDERGROUND BASES (what a dero baseball player steals...sorry, that was truly obscure!)(see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C.CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE,CIRCLES IN THE CORN (crop circles) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#33): SAVANT SYNDROME: MARILYN'S DEATH; MUMMIES Thursday, February 27 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#34): BEATING THE ODDS (hate crimes against misfits? No, astonishing successes of the physically challenged); OUR LADY OF THE ROCK (Grace Slick?...no, visions in Southern California); GUARDIAN ANGELS Friday, February 28 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 1:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#35): LABYRINTH (be healed by working your way through a maze...gee, isn't that the same thing as having an HMO? :) ); GRAPHOLOGY; HOTEL HELL This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com. PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 To the 'landscape artists' of this world From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 21 Feb 97 23:41:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:35:17 -0500 Subject: To the 'landscape artists' of this world Hello ! Since many years we, Hans-Juergen Kyborg and Joachim Koch, are researching one of the most spectacular and important phenomena of our time: the Intelligence behind the Crop Circles in Wiltshire, England. We are well aware that we haven't seen a genuine crop formation since at least 1992 in the area of Avebury/Alton Barnes - but nevertheless the genuine Phenomenon is still there. We know that it has only changed from the visible to the unvisible - from visible crop circle patterns to unvisible energy "patterns". With these "patterns" we are communicating since five years now with greater success year by year. This year of 1997 shall be another climax in the commincation between non-human intelligence and us all This year shall be the year of cooperation. Testimonied by many witnesses all of our combined efforts of active experimental field work and coherent meditations by teams out on sacred places around Averbury always led to extraordinary events like close encounters of unknown flying objects in form of glowing energy spheres or structured crafts. We always did our experiments together with others from various countries in love, harmony and joy without any religious or political intentions or background. We did it for all other beings here on Earth and for the planet herself to bring things back to balance. So with the same universal love we would like to ask the "landscape artists" of previous years to join us this year in harmony and take part in a major effort this summer. We know very well, that all around right now many teams and individuals are sitting in front of books or paintings and considering which pattern they should press into the crop in summer this year. We know you all - and we know that your ideas may not have that easy flow as in previous years. Hans-Juergen Kyborg and I would like to confirm our opinion that creating crop formations without permission of the farmer or at least paying for the broken crop (you could do it afterwards anonimously, why not?) the wrong approach to the Phenomenon. We also know that we cannot prevent you from doing your patterns at night and seemingly anonimously. And we know that not all of you are doing this only to fool people. Some of you, though you know about your illegal action, may hope that your pattern will be acknowledged by the Higher Intelligence. So why shouldn't we work together then? You have done nearly all known variations of circles, formations, mandalas, flowers, stars, insects, bubbles, and - very well done - fractal geometry. Why shouldn't we all give the same sense to our patterns this year? You in your way, we in our way. Please join us. Please take part in this years communication effort to the Higher Intellingence which reaches its goal on July 26th 1997. And the subject of all crop formations of this year should be: *our* *cosmic neigbourhood*! Please look at the star maps and the photographs of the big galaxies such as the Messier objects and others. Aren't they beautiful - and easy to display in a field? Or the most important *Constallation of Orion" somewhere in a field? Wouldn't it be really great if this year we all should display that we have understood that - the crop circle phenomenon originally came here to force us to *look and think*. Shouldn't we all display this year that we have looked, that we have thought - and that we have understood? I would like to implant in your mind *the symbol of a trangle* *with two rings in- or outside around* as the most powerful symbol of this year. Lets make these triangles all around wherever you "landscape artists" live and intend to do something in the fields - let's scatter this planet with huge encircled triangles this year - as a mighty "Welcome!" to the Higher Intelligences out there. Let's put together or spiritual forces and don't waste it seperate formations somewhere. There should be no jealousy among the teams this year to find out who is best. You all have proven that you are able to do marvellous designs - even at daylight within a very short time. Good! But let's make the difference this year. Let's offer all or formations which where created with positive energy to the Phenomenon - as a proof that *we have understood that we are cosmic beings* and as a gift to the Intelligence which has shown its presence year by year. Let's step forward this year - together! Joachim Koch and Hans-Juergen Kyborg, Berlin, February 16th, 1997 FIDO: 2:2410/704.20 IN: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 97 13:25:04 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:37:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial Having read the news article my first thoughts are that it was quite innocuous. Regardless of what the interviewees may have said, it was a typical piece of trite oversimplification and full of obvious misquotes and probably much other ill-informed rubbish that we have come to expect from media reporting of anything to do with ufology, Forteana or any damned thing. These days, one cannot - as an 'expert' in any field of this type who will sooner or later be interviewed or reported - avoid such journalistic trivialisations. Similar pieces abound in the papers and anyone who takes them so seriously that they actually believe that other people have *believed* every word and that their reputation is now in tatters probably fall in the 'crank' category - by which I mean they take themselves far too seriously. On the surface, I can't help thinking Mr Friedman and Mt Harris have damaged their reputations themselves by making themselves look particularly vindictive in persuing their claim. I would understand their concern if this criticism had appeared in a professional journal, but this was a trivial report in a regional paper. I have been called a crackpot, eccentric and much worse. To go after every one would make me look ridiculous. Perversly, I feel a strange sense of triumph at not fitting in to *normal* expectations - but that's just me. I agree with Joe Daniels that what is important here is the validity of our data and research work. Let us stand on the usefulness of our work. Reputations are always a matter of opinion and therefore potentially disagreeable. If I were in the place of Friedman or Harris, I would - as an alternative to Rob Irving's recommendation of an expletive - utter a healthy laugh and move on. Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." Charles Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Alfred's Ode Odd #96 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 07:12:41 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:36:32 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Ode Odd #96 Apology to MW #96 (For February 22, 1997)=20 "Academic=92s been liberal", or so says my Dad. "Frothingly, foamingingly, so _left_ it=92s gone mad." "It=92s tree hugging, heart bleeding, and encourages welfare." "It paints those as monsters, those who live up in BEL-Aire. This same man of science, says education is key And ignorance _is_ to drown in foul seas. More irony is you have to take what you see, And see if the blame points to you, and to me. To become educated ( and have solid ethics ) Is to believe in yourself (out past your own metrics) A Liberal is concerned with individual efficacy. A Conservative knows *some* don=92t _rate_ any ecstasy. A liberal says "Look to the person =91inside=92 what you see." A conservative says "keep those people far away from me." A liberal applies the newest information A conservative sees the past as destination. A liberal wonders at the face of infinity. A conservatives mantra worships contrived holy trinity. A liberal, ain=92t all good, bad, or indifferent. A conservative=92s arrogance is repellent, in-diffident. And what=92s this all to do with the ufological enigma? It=92s conservatives wont look, it=92s them lathers stigma! It=92s them with the good life, they have they think right. It=92s them with the terrors they make out of their night. A liberal knows that he probably knows not. A conservative *knows*, and therefore knows snot. A conservative twists science to champion those *fittest*.=20 A liberal is on guard for exclusion by centrists. A liberal=92s on point, on target, forgiving. A conservative denies she who=92s *least* a good living. A liberal knows misery=92s the grease of consumption. A conservative salves wounds with possessions, and function. A tie-in to troublesome ET hypothesis, As Right Wing=92s exclusion provokes social obnoxiousness? I=92ve said it before, and you=92ve called me a dreamer; But mash it down *here* -- it pops *there*, only meaner. We _can_ get along, have respect, gain progression. We _can_ reach the stars, live as kings, pass inspection. We _can_ live our dreams, love strange beings, live in pleasure. We _can_ work it out; we can _share_ all our treasure! A conservative hoards most times ill gotten gains. A conservative=92s scared to use colorful brains. A conservative=92s hold is in government=92s shadow, Enlightenment=92s orphaned, and truth is a candle. In conservative gloom all the UFO=92s hide. A conservative darkness is where they all glide. A conservative murk suits none but a few. Reality=92s torn, nay, RIPPED from our view. Lehmberg@snowhill.com You don=92t believe it? I have movies taken from shuttle missions of apparent physical objects defying physical laws, that have not, even un-cleverly, been debunked =96 and then there is the strange disappearance of Tel-Star One.=20 Isn=92t this a LITTLE more news worthy than O.J.=92s golf hide-away? That the press is a cheaply painted whore is unquestioned. But she _would_ give it away if it were left up to her. Who=92s her pimp? That=92s the question with an answer that would get you killed, I have no doubt. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, basting himself at the fundamentalist's stake.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Feb 97 04:02:38 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:33:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) Joe Daniels wrote; >Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 01:29:11 -0500 (EST) >From: UFO Joe <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Raining on the Parade!!! >I read the article, and to be totally honest, it does seem >rather slanderous towards Mr. Friedman. Words like "cultist", >and "crackpot" as well as "UFO fanatic Stanton Friedman" were >used. As far as I know Mr. Friedman has never subscribed to the >theory "that the US Government has made a secret pact with >captive aliens" or that aliens have been "in a freezer for 42 >years" as well as statements like "Half-baked tales that are >never investigated", "outrageous tripe" and "lunatics" were >used. Yet another example of the point I am trying to illustrate. Ufologists scared of a tad of criticism who will go running to the legal profession at the drop of a hat. Cultist, crackpot and fanatic are terms which can apply to *all* ufologists. I've been described as such by newspapers for my interests. So what? Being even *interested* in UFOs marks one out as possibly one of the above in most people's eyes. It doesn't hurt *that* much does it? Also, whilst Stan F may or may not have held the views attributed above (and it may be dangerous here to reproduce the content of private conversations which have been conveyed) the fact that he belives an alien spaceship crashed on Earth *in itself* is, I'm afraid, 'outrageous tripe' and a 'half-baked' tale. Simply because on the best evidence available so far - it didn't happen. >Once such >accusations are made, the damage is done, with or without a >formal apology. I doubt that Mr. Friedman will ever full recover >from the damage done; and the suit itself seems to have brought >even further discredit. I wonder how many of you would have sued >also? Well, not me for one. I realise Mr Friedman is of a sensitive disposition but I find it hard to believe that one extremely badly written article about a which was attended largely by people with only the slimmest idea of who he was, could have brought' discredit'. If it wasn't for his and his ufologist friend who happened to be a solictor (acting for himself - a practice which shouldn't be allowed mainly because it enables one side in the argument not to have to pay for legal advice) no-one other than a few ufologists would have ever seen the piece. As it is the world of ufology was made aware of it and I'm afraid that it only hardened the view already held about Friedman and Harris by sceptical UK ufologists. Unfortunately the situation isn't as clear as it may seem to the casual onlooker and is just the icing on the cake to years of underlying antagonism between both parties. Which still continues to this day by the way. Friedman was not damaged by the article as it stood initially. Nor was Harris he isn't a published ufologist). The point remains that ufologists shouldn't be so precious about the cut and thrust of debate about ideas which as out of the ordinary. It's immature and not a little silly. Furthermore, screwing money and an apology ouit of someone by legal means is nonsensical. It in no way prevents people from holding their opinion or by spreading it in other ways. All it *does* prove is that someone has lots of money and possibly a cheap legal advisor. >she must be careful when her opinions cross the line and become >personal attacks. See above I agree with the guy who said this matter is perhaps not best served on this list. Both parties (or supporters thereof) are deeply entrenched. To me, it doesn't matter who or what we are discussing- my *fundamental* point is that anyone should be free to make any comments they choose about anyone else or their theories. Don't take it all so bloody seriously! Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' From: Armen Victorian <106105.3217@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:39:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:21:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' The format of the article published in your recent posting, as acknowledged by yourself, was not edited version of the same, which further to subsequent etion was published in LOBSTER UK. Limited numbers of that version was mailed to selected public figures in the UFO field, for their information. However, as further acknowledged in your posting, some requested the re-mailing, which was granted. Nevertheless, the bulk of our research which constitutes trips to US and taped telephone conversations with the individuals named in Mr. Good's piece are in our archives. Due to large volume of our findings, there and after the publication of the report, still remains unpublished to date. Some of which are direct comments made by key individual [players] as named in Mr. Good's piece, holding high ranking offices, to their counterparts in UK, in particular Hill-Norton. A brief example; is what one key, high ranking US Navy individual, who addressed Hill-Norton, with personal tone, commented as being senile and short sighted in his foreword in Mr. Good's book. I further concur with your opening comments concerning the mislead of interested public by some publicly well-known [research] individuals, for whom the business aspect and the enjoyed dividends, take priority to serious research. As one Air Force General commented to me a couple of years ago in Pentagon; " ... we do not have to create as much disinformation as we initially intend to, since we enjoy the full cooperation of your researchers at large with their frequent publications" - a point I have to agree with. Consequently, and in an attempt to avoid the regular UFO circus, I seldom share significant information with public researchers, who have a generic tendency of self belief in knowing all. These comments should not be construed as criticism in any rate by our learned public researchers in these field. Neither it intends to open a venue in entering into the current arena. And as always, I wish them all good luck in their efforts in unlocking the"mysteries unknown". Armen Victorian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial From: UFO Joe <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:22:30 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 23:06:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial On Sat, 22 Feb 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Date: 22 Feb 97 04:02:38 EST > From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial (was: Libel) > I agree with the guy who said this matter is perhaps not best > served on this list. Both parties (or supporters thereof) are > deeply entrenched. To me, it doesn't matter who or what we are > discussing- my *fundamental* point is that anyone should be > free to make any comments they choose about anyone else or > their theories. > > Don't take it all so bloody seriously! Let us not forget that Mr. Friedman derives his income from speaking engagements and book sales, he suffered financialy as a result, which under civil courts allows him damages. For him it is automatically a serious matter. For someone who derives his income from elsewhere, and ufology is but a hobby, such remarks could be seen as frivolous. But if you are in an accident that prevents you from deriving an income, you are allowed damages to recoup the loss from the person responsible. On the "Net" we are "spoilt" in a way, because most of the time we can speak our nasty opinions without reprisal. Mainly because the legal system has not caught up with information age. However, for published print, the law is quite clear about malicious attacks. If Mr. Friedman was involved in any other industry, I'm sure you'd see his position. If we want to move "ufology" forward, it's best that we keep such ridicule at bay and prevent the "laughter curtain" from impeding progress in the field. I'm sure that Jenny could have found a more "professional" way to express her opinions, after all, she's Britian's most "professional" ufologist. 8-) .--------------------------------------------. | From UFO Joe Daniels http://cron-2.mco.net | `--------------------------------------------'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial From: Joe McNally <fortean3@easynet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:28:10 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 23:08:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial >Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 01:29:11 -0500 (EST) >From: UFO Joe <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Raining on the Parade!!! >I read the article, and to be totally honest, it does seem >rather slanderous towards Mr. Friedman. Words like "cultist", >and "crackpot" as well as "UFO fanatic Stanton Friedman" were >used. As far as I know Mr. Friedman has never subscribed to the >theory "that the US Government has made a secret pact with >captive aliens" or that aliens have been "in a freezer for 42 >years" as well as statements like "Half-baked tales that are >never investigated", "outrageous tripe" and "lunatics" were >used. Unfortunately, having had many dealings with the UK local press, it seems more than likely that the words "cultist" and "crackpot" came from the journalist, not Jenny. To begin with, how many of those on the list have always been entirely happy with their treatment by any journalists with whom they happen to come into contact? It's probable that many of the quotes from Jenny were prompted by the journalist responsible - "So do you think a lot of these American ufologists are crackpots?" "Yes." "With some of them, it's almost like a cult, isn't it?" "Yes." She may not even have been told that her comments were going to be run as an attack on Stanton. Moreover, it's obvious from the tone of the piece that the journalist does not regard ufology as a serious subject; it's easy to become sloppy when you don't think anything important is at stake. >While she may be of the opinion that >North American Ufologists are a motley crew, she should not have >turned this into a character assasination of Stanton. Again, it's more likely that she gave general opinions on her view of US ufology, which were then re-worked by the paper to make them seem more directly relevant to Friedman. By way of evidence, it should be noted that the words "Stanton Friedman" do not appear in any of the direct quotes from her, and that the article contains barely a hundred words of direct quotation from Jenny. Which sounds more like the sort of snappy headline local newspaper editors love - "Local UFO Expert Expresses Grave Reservations About ETH" or "Loony Saucer Boffins Battle It Out!"? >I really hate to piss on your parade, but put into the same >situation, I would have sued also, only I might not have settled >"out of court" as graciously as Mr. Friedman had. I would quibble with your opinion that accepting Jenny's out-of-court offer was in any way gracious. This is a standard tactic in UK defamation actions. No state legal aid is available in defamation suits in the UK, so wealthy complainants can suggest that their alleged defamers settle out of court for a nominal sum and know that, nineteen times out of twenty, they'll cave in. McDonald's tend to conduct their defamation cases like this. Moreover, it was very much in Stanton's interest to accept Jenny's offer, since if the case had actually gone to trial and he had won, but had been awarded less by way of damages than had been offered by Jenny, he would have found himself liable for *all* legal fees in the case. This would also have happened had he lost. If two out of three possible outcomes involved having to pay two barristers' fees in what would probably be an extraordinarily lengthy and involved trial, *I'd* be pretty keen to settle out of court. >While I feel for Ms. Randles legal problem, protecting one's >self from a libel suit is not a very nice or cheap affair, she >must be careful when her opinions cross the line and become >personal attacks. But this is the problem with the whole case; I and many others (the numerous contributors to Dave Langford's MJ-Balls fund, for example) feel rather strongly that Jenny's opinions were probably twisted into personal attacks by the Manchester Evening News, and that by going to law, Friedman was laying himself open to accusations of using the legal system to discredit those who - rightly or wrongly - simply disagree with his spin on the UFO phenomenon. ----- Nothing in this post is necessarily the opinion of John Brown Publishing or Fortean Times. On a bad day, it might not even be mine. ----- "It was like groping your way through a thick fog. The beams of your headlights showing the fog back at you. It was like that, yet it wasn't." Lionel Fanthorpe, "The Asteroid Man"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Feb 97 13:31:56 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 23:09:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial Bob Rickard wrote >Having read the news article my first thoughts are that it was quite >innocuous. Regardless of what the interviewees may have said, it was a >typical piece of trite oversimplification and full of obvious misquotes >and probably much other ill-informed rubbish that we have come to expect >from media reporting of anything to do with ufology Exactly, it's just how it goes in this field. The words heat and kitchens spring to mind as words of advice for the emotionally insecure. >On the surface, I can't help thinking Mr Friedman and Mr >Harris have damaged their reputations themselves by making themselves >look particularly vindictive in persuing their claim. I would understand >their concern if this criticism had appeared in a professional journal, >but this was a trivial report in a regional paper. Yesterday's newspapers are tomorrow's chip-wrappings. The same people who are 'hurt' by newspapers probably think everything else in them is true too. >I agree with Joe Daniels that what is important here is >the validity of our data and research work. Let us stand on the >usefulness of our work. Reputations are always a matter of opinion and >therefore potentially disagreeable. True, that's what it largely all comes down to - how well researched and ultimately valid an individuals work is within a subject. But that is precisely why ufology is in dissarray; because research is shoddy, conclusions are jumped to, ludicrous claims are made, and the big fish then wonder why they are criticised. However, the motivations *behind* people's actions in cases such as Friedman/Harris vs Randles are never as clear cut as they appear to the casual observe. I think ufology is as much about the personalities involved as it is about any external 'truths' they claim to be seeking or representing. Equally, the politics of ufology are as important as - and indeed part *of* - the subject matter. Because it's the personalities and the views they hold, who they will and will not allow to speak at conferences, who gets books published because of who they know and who doesn't - and so on - which shapes the presentation to and the perception of the subject to and by the consumer. And indeed to many ufologists who think it's just a straightforward matter of interviewing witnesses >If I were in the place of Friedman or >Harris, I would - as an alternative to Rob Irving's recommendation of an >expletive - utter a healthy laugh and move on. Wise words Bob - both at the same time with a curse to Eris thrown in! I hope list member don't think I'm needlessly stirring trouble up with this thread, but it's a matter I believe passionately in. I'm a time served ufologist with a deep and long-lasting interest in the subject. But I won't stand by and see fellow ufologists be hounded, victimised and vilified for having an opinion - whether anyone likes that opinion or not. And much as though it is my *opinion* that Friedman's ideas are bonkers, I'd support him if the boot were on the other foot. You'll be pleased to know that unless any other very cogent points which pertain to this thread are raised I shan't say another word! Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Rare British UFO Documentaries From: Ian Read <i.read@netcom.co.uk> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:52:28 GMT Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 23:11:36 -0500 Subject: Rare British UFO Documentaries I have just recently obtained a couple of recordings of some extermly rare British TV documentries. The first is the 1976 Horizon program "Out of This World". Some of the long time UFO researchers may recall an article in FSR written when this was broadcast, it described the ridicule which it generated. FSR editor Gorden Creightin and editor at the time, Charles Bowen, both stated that portions of their interview had not been broadcast - the portions in which they discussed the cases with the most evidence. The second program is another Horizon documentry, this time called "The Case for the UFOs." When broadcast in 1982 it brought a lot of interest to the subject. Fortunatly this time Horizon took a more open minded look at the phenomenon. Anyone interested in getting a copy of these for =A310 please email me at i.read@netcom.co.uk ________ /___ ___\ Ian Read \\__\/__// UFON UK Co. Director \ .. / UFO Discovery \ / http://people.netcom.co.uk/i.read/ \ / Newsgroup - alt.binaries.ufo.files \/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:07:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 23:14:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial I have a couple of minor difficulties with this entire thread. 1. What has been done, is done. Meaning that the REAL event took place, drew to a conclusion and hence, is supposedly over with. So, why are we flogging a dead horse? 2. It was interesting to read the article that was written by a local British Newspaper. However, THEY, like all other newspapers, tend to print what they think or feel will help them sell papers. This may or may not be in opposition to the reality of what someone says or does. All news should be viewed with a grain of salt. Remember that we are viewing facts that are presented to us as another person PERCEIVES them to be. The accuracy of what was said or not said, can, and most times IS, always interpreted the wrong way. In otherwords, is EVERYONE in this base believing EVERYTHING they read? 3. I tend to agree with Bob Rickard and Andy Roberts on this overall. Don't take opinions so seriously. I realize that if the "attack" were made on me personally, I MIGHT feel differently, however I DOUBT it. I would have handled the situation a tad different then Stan. Stan, you have to remember the penchant for sarcasm in British society and respond accordingly. (The ongoing battle of wits between Winston Churchill and Lady Astor? come to mind) Something along the lines of graciously and publicly being THANKFUL of the "NOTICE" by Britain's ONLY PROFESSIONAL Ufologist as being a badge of honour you're happy to receive, would have been more in line. Anyone who discounts years of research on any subject as being "outrageous tripe" or "half-baked tales" falls into the category of not worthy of listening to, PERIOD. IF this same person can show documented PROOF that someone's research efforts were incorrect, that's a different story. In all seriousness, legal means to solve a disagreement should be the LAST resort. Trust me on this one Stan, most people don't think any worse of an individual because somebody calls them "NAMES" that belong in a children's schoolyard. I personally think no less or more of you because of what Ms. Randles said about you. Has anyone that is following this thread changed their opinion about Mr. Friedman one way or the other? LASTLY. Anyone who mentions the term UFO or UFOlogist, or interest in either one, should EXPECT to see eyebrows raise a little. We ALL have our own opinions, beliefs and expectations, and make our judgments on others as a result of this. I personally believe that we are NOT alone in the universe and that other forms of life visit to see what we're up to. And "YES, VIRGINIA," I even believe that their technology screws up sometimes and they CRASH on our planet. If ANY of that means that someone thinks of me as a LUNATIC CRACKPOT, so be it. We have to sometimes learn to agree to dis-agree. Is ANY of this thread going to change what happened or what Ms. Randles's thoughts are of Mr. Friedman? My two cents worth again, Dave (Furry) Furlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 22 Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 13:56:50 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 23:13:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles - a new trial Re: >Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 01:29:11 -0500 (EST) >From: UFO Joe <ufojoe@cron-2.mco.on.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Raining on the Parade!!! Joe, >I read the article, and to be totally honest, it does seem >rather slanderous towards Mr. Friedman. Words like "cultist", >and "crackpot" as well as "UFO fanatic Stanton Friedman" were >used. As far as I know Mr. Friedman has never subscribed to the >theory "that the US Government has made a secret pact with >captive aliens" or that aliens have been "in a freezer for 42 >years" as well as statements like "Half-baked tales that are >never investigated", "outrageous tripe" and "lunatics" were >used. Would you agree that the bulk of responsibility lies with the journalist involved, and his or her editor? Some of the remarks you mention were not actually directly attributed to Jenny. >While at the same time she refers to herself as "Britans only >professional ufologist". While she may be of the opinion that >North American Ufologists are a motley crew, she should not have >turned this into a character assasination of Stanton. >I really hate to piss on your parade, It's not my parade. I'm of the opinion that Jenny was unfairly victimised. I also think that it's a naughty, badly researched article - sadly typical of the kind of lobotomised writing required by provincial UK newspapers. My posting of the 'offending' item has at least given you the opportunity to judge for yourself. >but put into the same >situation, I would have sued also, only I might not have settled >"out of court" as graciously as Mr. Friedman had. Once such >accusations are made, the damage is done, with or without a >formal apology. Would this really have gone as far as a High Court libel suit if Jenny had decided not to settle? Surely the complaint should have been directed toward the journalist and newspaper involved. Yet they appear to have come out of this affair relatively unscathed. What I find most curious is that the anger was directed so exclusively towards Jenny, as if it was an extension of some ongoing grudge - the real reason lying deeper than the reason given. I wonder how much of this was instigated for personal, ufology-in-Lancashire-type reasons? >I doubt that Mr. Friedman will ever full recover >from the damage done; Are you serious? >and the suit itself seems to have brought >even further discredit. For what reason? >I wonder how many of you would have sued >also? Speaking personally, I've suffered worse. >While I feel for Ms. Randles legal problem, protecting one's >self from a libel suit is not a very nice or cheap affair, she >must be careful when her opinions cross the line and become >personal attacks. "Half-baked tales that are never investigated", "outrageous tripe", etc., seem perfectly legitimate opinions to hold, in my opinion. Perhaps we should just do away with the concept of reputations altogether, although that's easy for me to say. On the rare occasions I've spoken to Jenny she's struck me as being very careful of what she says - probably as a direct result of all this - but to the point where the conversation seems restricted. A few people are even still reluctant to openly discuss the issue at all. That worries me slightly. Rob Irving
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 23 Re: To the 'landscape artists' of this world From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Feb 97 15:15:44 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:52:12 -0500 Subject: Re: To the 'landscape artists' of this world >>Date: 22-Feb-97 16:43:11 MsgID: 815-5881 ToID: 76710,234 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto >INTERNET:updates@globalserve.net >>Subj: UFO UpDate: To the 'landscape artists' of this world >>Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: Std Receipt: No Part 1 of 1 Joachim got levered onto the list, thusly; >> I would like to implant in your mind *the symbol of a trangle* >>*with two rings in- or outside around* as the most powerful symbol of >>this year. Been done already, and if they need contacting, they can use the phone. It's good to talk. >>Let's offer all or >>formations which where created with positive energy to the Phenomenon >>- as a proof that *we have understood that we are cosmic beings* and >>as a gift to the Intelligence which has shown its presence year by >>year. So, let me get this right; They want hoaxers to provide messages to entities that exist because they make crop-patterns? Am I the only one slightly disturbed by this twisting? However, wouldn't it be interesting if the only pattern this year was a triangle, etc.... Would Erik show 50 identical photos? James Diss,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 23 Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' - Pt 2 From: James A Diss <76710.234@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Feb 97 15:15:42 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:51:02 -0500 Subject: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' - Pt 2 >Date: 22-Feb-97 07:10:13 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto >INTERNET:updates@globalserve.net >Subj: UFO UpDate: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' - Pt 2 >Chrg: $0.00 Imp: Norm Sens: Std Receipt: No Part 1 of 1 Errol passed on; >> I have a TAPED TELEPHONE CONVERSATION with the editor of Good's book. >>He CONFIRMS that there NEVER were any threats of any kind from any >>quarter. In fact they were worried that the book might not go down >>well. Any question as to the veracity of Armen Henry Azzy Alan Jones Victorian's tapes has to be placed against the fact that they occasionally appear to be edited, and rarely does he say that he's taping people. I've heard tapes (from both ends of the phone'), where the-man-formerly-known-as-Henry has strenuously denied; 1) Being himself 2) Taping the conversation Mind you, if you believe some of his taped interviews, Mr Victorian is the man to speak to about Opus Dei. In future, it would be wise to inform the callee that they are being taped. Invasion of privacy carries a custodial sentance, and he isn't exactly a first offender. For Henry to refer to 'facts' is like listening to a fish's description of flying. Thankyou, and goodnight. James Diss,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 23 Re: Friedman v Randles From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Feb 97 17:18:34 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 02:53:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. Some years ago, the satirical journal Private Eye (aka "Lord Gnome's Organ") described me as a gun-toting lecher (true, but not both at the same time), and printed various fictions about my appalling behavior with whisky bottles, women and taxi-cabs, and accused me of being the cause of a friend's hospitalization. It was all quite juicy, enter- tained lots of people, and was occasionally discomforting when people who I thought knew me better asked how much of it was true. So I have some sympathy for Stan. But, there is a but, besides the fact that I thought the jokes were in sufficiently bad taste not to be worth suing over, although I would probably have won. As a reader who knows pretty much who thinks what in ufology (and quite often wishes they wouldn't), my first reaction to the MEN article was that the *paper* had misyoked Stan's (and for all I know H. Harris's) belief in crashed saucers, with the truly loopy stuff coming out of Bill Moore's Aviary and its allies. So I instantly thought: Well, that ain't what Stan thinks. And Jenny must know that. Ergo, typical bloody slapdash hacks, can't get anything right. The usual response is to feel a letter to the editor coming on. It certainly isn't to sue for libel. I suspect that to the ufologically challenged, which must represent 98 percent of the MEN's readership, believers in crashed saucers and dead aliens are no less potty than those who maintain those same aliens, when living, enjoy strawberry ice cream. But if I thought the evidence for both beliefs was not equally valid, then the letter to the editor provides the opportunity to educate the ignorant public, upbraid the useless hacks, and put oneself on the side of scientific method and all those good things. I might, if I had Stan's erudition in ufology, also know Jenny is unlikely to have linked him with Falcon, Condor, etc. A telephone call might be in order to get some clarification and reassurance and to maintain cordial relations. Suing for libel achieves none of these things. So one is naturally led to wonder if there was not something else fueling the legal move - perhaps only excess amour-propre and impoverished humor, perhaps something less palatable. Whatever, the reaction smacks of massive overkill. Not to say bullying. Obviously, other interpretations are possible. In Jenny's place my own reaction would have been to call the bluff: to say "See you in court, counselor" after a good guffaw and flipping a finger, and to start working on one-liners for the jury. But then I'm not Jenny, who had not then been outed by the News of the World, and may have decided to settle because she feared irrelevant but hurtful and embarrassing lines of questioning developing in court. Lawyers can be very nasty indeed when they want to discredit a defendant. Stan may not have known this, but I'd be amazed if Harris didn't, which makes one wonder about the motives yet again, since one can't read minds. (Thomas Rice, what can you tell us??) The only thing about Harris on which my opinion is certain is that he has execrable taste in evening dress and the most terrifying bow tie north of Watford. A nobbly, floppy, maroon-colored creation of astonishing aspect, those meeting it for the first time do not know if it is likely to spin furiously at any moment or squirt lavender water in your face. In my presence it did neither, so I am unable to reassure anyone on this point. best wishes P. Mendoza Birianisnack "The mask behind the man"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 23 Alfred's Odd Ode #97 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 09:21:55 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:04:46 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #97 Apology to MW #97 (For February 23, 1997)=20 Star Wars =96 the statement, is back in the theaters;=20 And there=92re lines of people fighting to get in. Critique is insane, it=92s even said Orson=92s "Kane" Is supplanted as best=92s _ever_ been! The movie _is_ news and that=92s good news, As it=92s inserted in personal fables. All manner of folk, use that film to evoke Their manners, and outlooks -- sans labels. The film is a Liberal bonanza, of course, Celebrating the value of one; To spit oratory at authoritarian story; Is to face up to tyranny=92s guns! Think of "The Empire", as you walked its huge ships. . . Were Chicanos crewing the Death Star? Where were black faces, and what was the basis Of an empire all white, gray, or silver! The rebels by turn were multitudinous mixture, Of the big, and the small, and the weird. It was DIVERSITY played that _won_ them their day; Their _alliance_ let fly freedom's bird! The rebels were models of tolerance, Just a boy, some rake, and the princess. A wookie sat tight, and the 'droids buzzed just right, They worked *together* to take care of business. It=92s good that these movies are working, On the levels that folks find obverse. It=92s in Alien View, and so easily reviewed --=20 It=92s a pro-social retraction from curse! Lehmberg@snowhill.com I sure hope that Lucas, and Speilberg, and that whole dream-team- bunch are straight-up, on-the-level guys. . . I think you know what that means. . . More to the point, I wonder if there=92s a way they could figure me onto their payroll <not grinning>. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake. Skywalker flies in hot to effect a quick rescue.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 23 Re: Friedman v Randles From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 08:06:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:03:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles Several good points have been made by Dave Furlotte: > Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:07:37 -0500 > To: updates@globalserve.net > From: David <furry@nobelmed.com> > Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles- a new trial ETC...ETC.. > I have a couple of minor difficulties with this entire thread. > 1. What has been done, is done. Meaning that the REAL event took place, > drew to a conclusion and hence, is supposedly over with. So, why are we > flogging a dead horse? While the specific case has apparently been resolved, it has raised issues that are worthy of further examinations. However, those in this forum may have too much invested in their theories to allow for a meaningful discussion. How does one debate the validity of a libel complaint when one already has pre-conceived notions regarding the issues in question? I would agree that there is little to be gained by going over this particular case over and over again, but the issue that has been raised is one that needs to be addressed if the field of UFOlogy is to gain credibility in the mainstream scientific community. > 2. It was interesting to read the article that was written by a local > British Newspaper. However, THEY, like all other newspapers, tend to > print what they think or feel will help them sell papers. This may or > may not be in opposition to the reality of what someone says or does. > All news should be viewed with a grain of salt. Remember that we are > viewing facts that are presented to us as another person PERCEIVES > them to be. The accuracy of what was said or not said, can, and most > times IS, always interpreted the wrong way. In otherwords, is > EVERYONE in this base believing EVERYTHING they read? Unfortunately, you are preaching to the choir here. Those who follow this list probably take everything they read with a "grain of salt", and seek to verify it elsewhere before accepting it. That is not true for the general public (in middle America, anyway), who view their local paper as their window to the world. That isn't to say that they never question what they read, but if a newspaper generally has their trust, they will believe what they read until proven otherwise. As pointed out in another message, we are dealing with a newspaper in Great Britain, which means that the writing style and content are not the same as their U.S. counterpart. Having spent about ten years as a radio reporter, I would tend to agree that the driving force behind editorial decisions is the desire to sell more newspapers. > 3. I tend to agree with Bob Rickard and Andy Roberts on this overall. > Don't take opinions so seriously. I realize that if the "attack" > were made on me personally, I MIGHT feel differently, however I > DOUBT it. I would have handled the situation a tad different > then Stan. > Stan, you have to remember the penchant for sarcasm in British society and > respond accordingly. (The ongoing battle of wits between Winston Churchill > and Lady Astor? come to mind) Something along the lines of graciously and > publicly being THANKFUL of the "NOTICE" by Britain's ONLY PROFESSIONAL > Ufologist as being a badge of honour you're happy to receive, would have > been more in line. > Anyone who discounts years of research on any subject as being "outrageous > tripe" or "half-baked tales" falls into the category of not worthy of > listening to, PERIOD. IF this same person can show documented PROOF that > someone's research efforts were incorrect, that's a different story. > In all seriousness, legal means to solve a disagreement should be the LAST > resort. Trust me on this one Stan, most people don't think any worse of an > individual because somebody calls them "NAMES" that belong in a children's > schoolyard. I personally think no less or more of you because of what Ms. > Randles said about you. Has anyone that is following this thread changed > their opinion about Mr. Friedman one way or the other? I would (again) suggest that this forum does not provide the best target audience to which this question should be addressed. The issue, perhaps, is whether those who read the newspaper in question, who don't know Friedman from "Adam", have been influenced by the commentary in the paper. I would agree that Randles may well have been taken "out of context" as her statements were used to support the editorial position of the newspaper. But, while a simple "letter to the editor" might have been another avenue to take, it would not likely have carried the same weight with the public (where the damage had allegedly been done). On a side note, I have not heard that Ms. Randles complained about her comments being taken out of context, which could help to clarify her position in this. > LASTLY. Anyone who mentions the term UFO or UFOlogist, or interest in > either one, should EXPECT to see eyebrows raise a little. We ALL have our > own opinions, beliefs and expectations, and make our judgments on others as > a result of this. I personally believe that we are NOT alone in the universe > and that other forms of life visit to see what we're up to. And "YES, > VIRGINIA," I even believe that their technology screws up sometimes and they > CRASH on our planet. If ANY of that means that someone thinks of me as a > LUNATIC CRACKPOT, so be it. We have to sometimes learn to agree to > dis-agree. Is ANY of this thread going to change what happened or what Ms. > Randles's thoughts are of Mr. Friedman? Agreed. But the issue raised here is that of peer review, and the rules under which it should be applied. The discussion points to the serious problem we in ufology have in trying to find common ground on which to build our theories. However, we will never reach that goal if we continue to pick apart each other's theories based on innuendo and personal attacks. We have no need to listen to "outrageous tripe" or "half-baked tales", but each of us probably has our own definition for what they mean, which would (of course) have to be outlined at the onset of any discussion. Someone observed on the "net" a couple of years ago that "Ufologists eat their own", and until we can change that facet of the genre, it likely won't progress very far toward peer review (IMHO).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 23 Re: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' From: "Michael J. Woods" <mike.woods@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:35:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:06:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' On Feb 22/97, James A. Diss wrote... <snip> >"In future, it would be wise to inform the callee that they are >being taped. Invasion of privacy carries a custodial sentance, >and he isn't exactly a first offender." Well. I can't comment on U.S. law, but I doubt very much if anyone ever got jail time for recording a telephone conversation. If you can reach Richard Nixon in hell, where he no doubt now resides, he'd confirm that. If your courts couldn't put O.J. Simpson in jail for double homicide, making a tape recording record of a phone call hardly seems the fast route to the slammer. In Canada, and to the best of my knowledge, the U.K., the law is quite clear. Any telephone conversation may be recorded, so long as one of the person's involved gives permission (yes, that means the person MAKING the recording can give permission to themselves to tape...and it's legal.) The only time the other party has to grant permission to record a phone call is if it's intended for BROADCAST. Very simple, straight forward and clear. And while I find myself in agreement with the good 'Dr.', that misrepresenting (at it's very nicest) comments by other people to advance their UFO career makes the rest of us look bad, I must admit I am constantly saddended by the amount of time UFO researchers spend researching other UFO researchers when they should be researching UFOs. So there. Mike Woods> (fire all flames to mike.woods@sympatico.ca) The truth can STAY out there, send in a good fantasy.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 23 Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 97 17:16:37 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:07:27 -0500 Subject: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' James Diss said of Armen Victorian ... >Any question as to the veracity of Armen Henry Azzy Alan Jones >Victorian's tapes has to be placed against the fact that they >occasionally appear to be edited, and rarely does he say that >he's taping people. I've heard tapes (from both ends of the >phone'), where the-man-formerly-known-as-Henry has strenuously >denied; >1) Being himself >2) Taping the conversation >Mind you, if you believe some of his taped interviews, >Mr Victorian is the man to speak to about Opus Dei. >In future, it would be wise to inform the callee that they are >being taped. Invasion of privacy carries a custodial sentance, >and he isn't exactly a first offender. >For Henry to refer to 'facts' is like listening to a fish's >description of flying. This is interesting but beside the point. The question is, was his information correct? Victorian appeared quite straight about how he got the info and, as he provided some contact data, you can (if necessary) investigate the investigator. Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." Charles Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 24 Re: Friedman v Randles From: MWayne@bigfoot.com (Michael Malone) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:39:24 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:22:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles >Date: 22 Feb 97 17:18:34 EST >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Friedman v. Randles (was 'Libel') >The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. >Some years ago, the satirical journal Private Eye (aka "Lord Gnome's >Organ") described me as a gun-toting lecher (true, but not both at the >same time), and printed various fictions about my appalling behavior >with whisky bottles, women and taxi-cabs, and accused me of being the >cause of a friend's hospitalization. It was all quite juicy, enter- >tained lots of people, and was occasionally discomforting when people >who I thought knew me better asked how much of it was true. So I have >some sympathy for Stan. But, there is a but, besides the fact that I >thought the jokes were in sufficiently bad taste not to be worth suing >over, although I would probably have won. [Snip] I am under the impression that Friedman makes his living as a UFO lecturer, researcher, writer, and so on. Perhaps I am mistaken, but under the assumption that this is true, I must side with Friedman's actions, even if I don't agree with his motivations, opinions, et al. I am currently involved in a similar situation. While it is not concerning UFOs or UFOlogy, it IS concerning my choosen profession. In my case, the "opinions" are a little different. Like in Friedman's case, my antagonizers use the media to fuel the fire. What was said about me was on radio and in a public letter, written and signed and acknowledged by my antagonizers. Unlike Friedman, the "opinions" claim that I broke several state and federal statutes, which my non-existant police record shows as patently false. There are additional mitigating circumstances, but the strikingly, and important to this conversation, similar point is the "attacks" center around my ability to do my job, just as the attack on Friedman centered around his ability. This is a serious serious problem. His livelyhood was threatened. It's real easy to say that you wouldn't sue when it doesn't threaten the way you make money, but when feeding your family is at stake, and you are in a business that relies heavily on public perception of your ability, such attacks need to be dealt with appropriatly. But is court the appropriate method? Maybe, maybe not. Friedman decided that it was, Randles decided that it wasn't. An out of court settlement was reached. In my case, I wanted to leave it out of both the court and the media, but instead I was forced into the courts by my antagonizers. Without proper information, they proceeded to attack my good name, my professional reputation, and my ability to perform my job. As such, I have been left with no recourse but litigation. Again, while I might not agree with Friedman, I can certainly understand him - in this case.... Michael -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 24 Alfred's Odd Ode # 98 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 07:08:20 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:26:41 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode # 98 Apology to MW #98 (For February ?, 1997)=20 Many prefer the prominence, Most prefer the male. But, her valley contains the life And on prominence life is frail. (1993, I awoke with this thought, after reading from Mill) ~ Now what about woman, a new friend to me; Who has lately been freed of a lens I used, see? A woman who was, =91til just lately, invalid. A being fraught with shallowness, loveless, and squalid. . . I pray its not most women, on life=92s track encountered, That I treated as chattel, belittled, discounted. I count as regret many times that we met And you paid your dear price for my mad selfish mindset. Whom I betrayed in a real sense as the Christian did Moslem, . . .Oaths "sworn to the infidel" were valueless gauze film. It makes for long nights as an upcoming light Shows my error, my blunder -- my cognitive blight. I=92ve read in my text books, in science, no stricture, No valid support to alter the picture; That _man_ is the weak sex, the _woman_ the powerhouse! The girl is the office building, and the boy is the outhouse! Woman=92s constructed -- her brain is more whole. Man=92s corpus collosum=92s fried in testosterone. She is uncursed with the left\right brain proclivity That limits man=92s drive to a fraction of her activity. In reading non verbals her potential is infinite. =20 While man picks his nose, and is selfishly obstinate. The design of her body, by the main craftsman=92s knife, Is the better design for the weathering of strife. Genetically unhindered by sex linked disease, Her egg *polls* the sperm, sperm don=92t win _races_, please. We don=92t conquer our women, they decide =96 acquiesce. We say "king me," in checkers, but they=92re playing chess. Together we=92re greater than the sum of our parts. That must be the best way we can make a true start. Genetics, the physical, the truth of your umbilical -- Demonstrates plainly, I=92ve been quite the imbecile. I=92m going to ask you to forgive me again, Like in times past, when I wanted back to my gin. This time it=92s different, I=92ve got new understanding, Like a calf I=92ve been roped. And I accept a just branding <g>! The preceding is courtesy the new Alien View. "That don=92t stop with girls," but goes on to strange crews! A multi-verse unfolds in male dominate=92s demise. I want L. Moulton Howe here reporting my skies! Lehmberg@snowhill.com I don=92t know, but it=92s like a woman is more capable of sincerity. There are many things a man could say that I would find suspect. That same expression coming from a woman would be perfectly acceptable. I hope I haven=92t learned this to late. Learned sooner, I would be saddled with a lot less regret.=20 I _am_ truly sorry for past behavior, and I promise to be a better man for it. I know this does nothing for the pain I have personally caused you, (from Mom, out), and even less combating a reality that has you doing 75% of the work, for only 10% of the money =96 while owning 1% of the property (US News & World Report =96 March 28, 1984), but a perhaps good faith step in a _better_ direction. I just didn=92t understand. . . . . .forgive me. As regards being eaten away with testosterone, fellow dudes, here=92s the mechanics of it. Ask your friendly neighborhood sawbones (ha!) about the testosterone bath the male brain is soaked in prenatally when it=92s genetic programming decides that it=92s a male. Get him to tell you how this "boy" juice eats away at the brain-hemisphere-connecting "corpus collosum", corroding it away to a fraction of the female=92s. What=92s the pay-off? Well, less communication potential between the hemispheres for menfolk is obvious, with a marked tendency to ambidextrousness in the female =96 more left right brain harmony. In men there is marked hemispherical domination, we=92re only using *half our stuff* is an admitted oversimplification <g>. The women use it ALL, ah! Another oversimplification! Kinda=92 makes you feel like you started life ~brain~ damaged, don=92t it? Perhaps we did. --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, while burning at the fundamentalist's stake as women had burned before him.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 24 Re: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' From: "Colin Bell" <cgbell@netcomuk.co.uk> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:35:56 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:23:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' >Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:35:03 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: "Michael J. Woods" <mike.woods@sympatico.ca> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Good, Oechsler, Inman & 'Cosmic Journey' - Pt 2 [snip] > And while I find myself in agreement with the good 'Dr.', that > misrepresenting (at it's very nicest) comments by other people to advance > their UFO career makes the rest of us look bad, I must admit I am constantly > saddended by the amount of time UFO researchers spend researching other UFO > researchers when they should be researching UFOs. > So there. > Mike Woods> > (fire all flames to mike.woods@sympatico.ca) Dear Mike, No flames, mate - I'm with you 100%. A friend of mine looking over my shoulder the other evening while I pursued my mail, asked me how much information I actually got in the subjects I am research. OK I said lets compare the "Deleted" folder with the "Info" folder. Results were out of a total of 5673 mails, 984 useful or though provoking, 1837 not interesting and the rest flame wars between UFO researchers. Nuff said. Kind regards Colin Bell _________________________________ 'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you' ;-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 24 Talk Radio's Comet Caper From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 02:49:55 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:25:14 -0500 Subject: Talk Radio's Comet Caper Talk Radio's Comet Caper By Ray LaFontaine Sunday, February 23 1997; Page C05 The Washington Post A man claiming to be a Vatican priest sends a letter to Art Bell, host of "Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell," currently America's highest-rated late-night radio talk show (heard on 328 stations). Bell reads the letter on the air. As someone with a "top level security clearance," the writer says, he has stumbled on some disturbing information: a "heavily encrypted sub-system" in the Vatican computer. Soon after, he writes, he was "approached by two of the Pope's top aides," became frightened and fled. Within two weeks, a contract had been placed on his life, his parents had been killed in a car crash, and "my brother and sister were killed when their single engine plane went down." Now the priest was on the run, "trying to decode the file." The priest's letter is a pinch of leaven amid the weightier subjects usually favored by Bell's nationwide audience: UFOs, the secret alien-human alliance, "remote viewing," the face on Mars and, of course, the coming millennium catastrophes. (As any attentive Bell listener knows, the ancient Mayan calendar has long predicted that the world will end in 2012.) Behind this bewildering compendium of what America talks about after midnight is the synergistic power of a new media loop: talk radio and the Internet. Like other talk programs, "Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell" has a well-maintained web site. On-line listeners download photos or send in facts, fictions, theories, counter-theories or hoots of derision. Much of the feedback finds its way back to the airwaves, where the cycle begins anew. It may loop forever -- or until 2012 at least. So that noise you hear may be the splintering of a consensual reality. The recent chatter on Bell's show about the Hale-Bopp comet, scheduled to make its closest pass by Earth in April, is a cautionary tale about the fragile state of truth in our time. As processed by the radio-cyberspace paradigm factory, the comet story combines the hot extraterrestrial themes of movies like "Independence Day" and "Asteroid" with a dollop of scientific fact, the authority of a tenured professor at an elite university and a dose of self-promotional humbug. The whole affair has left even Bell shaking his head, which is saying something. The Hale-Bopp comet, a chunk of rock and ice sailing through interplanetary space, was discovered by American amateur astronomers Alan Hale and Thomas Bopp in July 1995. But the real fireworks began Nov. 14, 1996, when amateur astronomer Chuck Shramek of Houston posted on the Internet a telescopic photograph he had taken. Near the incoming comet, the photo showed, was a luminous body with Saturn-like rings -- an object "so bright and strange I began to pray," said Shramek, who announced his find on Bell's show. Enter Courtney Brown -- a tenured political science professor at Emory University in Atlanta, author of a book called "Cosmic Voyage," and president and owner of Farsight Institute, a company specializing in "scientific remote viewing," the latest jargon for clairvoyance. "Remote viewing," the professor claimed in his book, enabled him to make the "truly staggering" discoveries of "at least two alien civilizations" that have been continuously and "intimately involved with Earth humans." (The Farsight Institute web site offers entry-level remote viewing courses for $3,000 and full "professional certification" for a total of $4,550.) Following Shramek as a guest on Bell's show, the professor revealed that the Farsight Institute's remote-viewers had found the mysterious "companion" object to be larger than Earth, hollow and "under intelligent control" -- a kind of planetary spaceship hitching a ride on the comet. On Nov. 29, Brown appeared again on Bell's program, this time with Prudence Calabrese, his assistant. Calabrese told Bell's audience that a well-known astrophysicist at a "top ten university" had sent Brown information confirming Farsight's remote-viewing results. This astrophysicist, she went on, had taken several hundred photographs of the luminous object, which was not only real, but emanating "unambiguous radio signals." More significantly, the unnamed gentleman from the prestigious university planned to hold a press conference in a week to announce his findings. Meanwhile, he had sent Brown three rolls of undeveloped film. Two rolls unfortunately turned out blank, but the third had five "very good astronomical photographs," in Calabrese's words. To document their claim, Brown and Calabrese said, they had provided copies of one photo to Bell and another guest on the same show, Whitley Strieber, a man famous for his accounts of contacts between humans and aliens.There was a small catch, however: Bell and Strieber had agreed not to release their copies until after the announcement. The astrophysicist wished to remain anonymous until then, and didn't want anyone trying to trace the photo back to the originating observatory. The astrophysicist feared for "the safety of his family," Calabrese said, and wanted to develop "a completely irrefutable analysis before coming forward." Bell promised not to release the photo early, but with a stipulation: If the press conference didn't occur "within a reasonable time," he would post the picture on his web site. The Farsight duo's electric revelation cranked up the volume of cosmic chatter on Internet news groups with names like alt.alien.visitors. Professional astronomers weighed in, accusing Shramek of mistaking a star, SAO 141894, for a UFO. Channelers in tune with inhabitants of distant star systems -- Sirians, Reticulans, Pleiadians -- set a date for a mass landing of flying saucers from the Galactic Federation. Even the frightened Vatican priest got into the act: The hidden computer "subsystem" had "a link-up to the Hubble space telescope" that was "pointed directly at the comet." Mostly, however, the insomniacs of the Radio-Cyberspace Nation waited for the astrophysicist's public announcement. The week went by. Then another -- and another. Finally, after a month and a half, Bell left a message on Brown's answering machine. Time was up, he said; he would release the astrophysicist's photo the next day. Brown responded via answering machine, with a three-and-a-half minute message pleading with Bell to reconsider. The radio host's reputation was at stake, the professor argued. Listeners would resent his "breaking his word." Ignoring Brown's plea, Bell posted the photo on the Internet on Jan. 14. So did Whitley Strieber. The following day, both men received an e-mail from the University of Hawaii Institute for Astronomy (IFA). The message said the photo posted on their pages was a fraud, copied from a digital image that had been taken by an IFA astronomer on Sept. 1, 1995. The image had been on the IFA's web site for more than a year. As Olivier Hainaut of the IFA said later, the comet's mysterious companion was a hoax, inserted via digital image processing. As for the Emory professor's claim of receiving the photo on a film roll, Hainaut was blunt: "Impossible, since the original [Hawaii] photos were obtained digitally." Nor was this all. Film, Hainut explained, is no longer used with "modern large professional telescopes" -- the type one might expect at a "top ten university." Even if film had been used, he said, the processing of astronomical photographic plates was "tricky," and had to be done immediately. Waiting more than a year -- as would have been the case with a roll film photo which by star position could only have been taken in Hawaii on the night of Sept. 1, 1995 -- was "unheard of." On Jan. 17, Brown appeared again on Bell's show, now to explain the impossible. How could such a thing happen? he was asked by Bell and Strieber. The professor sighed. He couldn't account for it, he said, but suggested he might be the victim of a highly organized "disinformation campaign" long out to get his Farsight Institute. Who was the astrophysicist who gave you the photograph? Brown wouldn't say, no matter how strongly Bell and Strieber prodded him. It would be "positively immoral" to reveal the astrophysicist's identity, he said, after promising he wouldn't. Also, it was possible the astrophysicist may have been duped; outing him wouldn't be fair, Brown said. How about turning over the film roll to an impartial university for analysis? Long pause. "I'll think about it," he said. Brown has yet to provide the film roll, the astrophysicist's identity or the name of the "top ten university." Nor is he returning phone calls. He "just can't spare time to focus on the media right now," a Farsight Institute employee says. Like many stories cycling in the late-night cosmos, this one isn't over. The newest wave of arguments: that it was the University of Hawaii Institute for Astronomy that perpetrated the fraud, deleting the Hale-Bopp companion from Brown's genuine photo and thus continuing the cover-up of the imminent arrival of visitors from another solar system. Ray LaFontaine, co-author of "Oswald Talked," is finishing a novel about Puerto Rican life in America. =A9 Copyright 1997 The Washington Post Company
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 24 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 8 From: Masinaigan@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:25:08 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:19:22 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 2, Number 8 UFO ROUNDUP Volume 2, Number 8 February 23, 1997 Editor: Joseph Trainor UFOs HAUNT NIGHT SKIES ALL OVER AUSTRALIA For the past two weeks, Australia has been repeatedly visited by UFOs. Over 50 encounters have been reported since February 1, including two landings in the suburbs of Melbourne. The flap began Saturday, February 1, 1997 with an incident in Tasmania, the island off Australia's southern coast. A Glengarry family reported finding traces of a weird "bright yellow jelly slime" in their yard. At 9:45 p.m., in Broken Hill, New South Wales (N.S.W.), a city 750 kilometers (450 miles) west of Sydney, people reported "sighting two bright lights traveling from the northwest to the southeast." At 9:51 p.m., another man saw a glowing object fly from the southeast to the northwest, then reverse direction and "shoot off to the southeast." On Sunday, February 2, 1997, at 9:50 p.m., witnesses in Woori Yallock, Victoria (Vic.) reported "a bright white light" moving rapidly "from west to east in the northern sky, moving very fast, taking about 40 seconds" to reach the eastern horizon. On Monday, February 3, 1997, at 9:30 p.m., residents of Albury, N.S.W., 200 kilometers (120 miles) west of Canberra, spotted "a white light traveling from north to south in a zig zag fashion." Also that night, on Australia's east coast, "a large orange object" appeared over Port Macquarie, N.S.W. at 10 p.m. The UFO, which at first people took for a helicopter, "held position in the sky for about ten minutes. Before the object shot off and disappeared, several smaller yellow lights" emerged from the underside of the object. Port Macquarie is 250 kilometers (150 miles) north of Sydney. Then, after midnight, at 2:46 a.m. on Tuesday, February 4, 1997, people in Yass, N.S.W. saw "a bright orange illumination traveling across the sky." They estimated it to be "about 1/2 to 1/4 the size of the moon." The UFO flew away to the northwest. In Gosford, N.S.W., 60 kilometers (36 miles) north of Sydney, witnesses sighted "a large blue-white light" near the Moonie Bridge. The UFO was "close to the ground" and an estimated 200 to 300 feet (60 to 90 meters) in diameter. A half-hour past midnight on Wednesday, February 5, 1997, people reported "flashing lights" located in and around the stars in Orion's belt. At 9 p.m. on February 5, Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) personnel at Bogan Gate, near Parkes, N.S.W., 275 kilometers (165 miles) west of Sydney, spotted a "white golden illumination" crossing the sky and heading west. Nearly a half-hour later, at 9:25 p.m., civilian eyewitnesses at Ngunnaiual reported "orange and flashing illuminations" in "an arch over Orion's belt." Several hours later, at 5:35 a.m. on Thursday, February 6, 1997, people in Cooma, N.S.W., a city west of the Gourock mountain range, 150 kilometers (90 miles) south of Canberra, spotted a UFO arrayed with lights heading east. By the time the sun had set February 6, the theatre of UFO action had shifted to the sparsely-populated state of Western Australia (W.A.). At 7:30 p.m., people in Perth, the state capital, saw a hovering "blue-green tube- shaped object" in the day's fading daylight "before any star could be seen." (Editor's Note: Right now it's summer in the southern hemisphere, so the days are much longer in Australia and Chile.) The following night, Friday, February 7, 1997, the UFO action moved to the southern state of Victoria. At 9:20 p.m., a "spinning yellow fireball" zipped across the sky, heading west, over Bairnsdale, Vic., just above the southern coast's Ninety Mile Beach and about 200 kilometers (120 miles) east of Melbourne. At 9:25 p.m., people in Maffra, 60 kilometers (36 miles) west of Bairnsdale, sighted "a spinning yellow fireball" heading west towards Melbourne. At 11 p.m., people in Barwon Head, Vic. sighted a UFO they described as "a moving and flashing yellow- red fireball illumination with a (dark) triangular shape on top." The UFO traveled in a north-northwest direction at about 15 degrees above the horizon. The following night, Saturday, February 8, 1997, at 8:45 p.m., people in the Sydney suburbs of Oatley, Kogarah and Hurstville along the St. George's River saw "a green-to-yellow fireball with no tail traveling south in the eastern sky (about) 30 degrees above the horizon. There was no sound. The object suddenly stopped and hovered." Witnesses estimated the UFO to be the size of "an AAA battery held at arm's length." Four hours later, at 12:40 a.m. on Sunday, February 9, 1997, further up the east coast in Brisbane, witnesses reported "an orange illumination traveling at the speed of a fighter plane" in the eastern sky at 30 degrees above the horizon." The UFO was headed south and soon disappeared among the stars of the Southern Cross. On Sunday night, at 9:25 p.m., "a yellow-red fireball" was seen in St. Kilda, a bayfront suburb on the south side of Melbourne. The UFO was headed north and "flying beneath the cloud cover" at an estimated speed of 800 kilometers per hour (480 mph). At 11:30 p.m., Queensland had its second sighting of the flap when a UFO flew over Sunnybank, a suburb 14 kilometers (9 miles) south of Brisbane. Witnesses described it as "a yellow-orange fireball" 10 to 15 miles away, moving in a 45-degree downward arc (top left to bottom right). Five hours later, on Monday, February 10, 1997, at 4 a.m., a UFO returned to Brisbane. It was described as "a blue and red oval-shaped illumination in the western sky (about) 30 degrees above the horizon. It appeared to be three times the size of the largest stars in the sky." The flap in Brisbane continued during the early morning hours of Tuesday, February 11, 1997. At 12:02 a.m., police in Brisbane received telephone reports of a huge UFO described as "a large red-pink illumination" near Mount Gravatt. The UFO hovered about 300 meters (1,000 feet) above the witnesses' heads for five minutes. At 2 a.m., "a series of lights in a triangular formation" were seen by Brisbane residents heading south toward the air base RAAF Amberley. The lights appeared to fly in either a V-formation or a /\-formation. On February 11, at 11:30 p.m., the city of Adelaide in South Australia (S.A.) reported its first sighting of the flap. The UFO was "a ball of fire that had red and blue associated with it." An hour and a half later, on Wednesday, February 12, 1997, at 1 a.m., people in Taree, N.S.W., a river port near the coast about 210 kilometers (125 miles) north of Sydney, reported seeing "a slow-moving orange-red fireball heading southwest." The UFO made no discernible sound. At 2:30 a.m., people again noticed "a fireball traveling in the sky." As the UFO passed over, TV sets suddenly switched on without being touched by owners. After the UFO left, the TV sets all shut off at once. After a 24-hour breather, the flap picked up again on Friday, February 14, 1997, this time in Victoria. At 11:15 p.m., residents of Craigieburn, a southern suburb of Melbourne, saw "a bright disc-shaped light" hovering above a paddock. Witnesses also saw what looked like automobile headlights in the paddock while the UFO hovered. Four or five seconds after the UFO flew away, the "headlights" winked out. A few hours later, on Saturday, February 15, 1997, at 4:40 a.m., residents of Parkinsville, another suburb of Melbourne, saw a star-sized "red-blue illumination in the southwest sky." Later the same day, in Duncraig, W.A., near Perth, people outdoors at 12 noon reported a weird "solar effect." Sunlight suddenly dimmed in an "eclipse-like effect" although the sky was perfectly clear. The effect lasted for approximately five seconds. No aircraft were seen or heard overhead. The phenomenon remains unexplained. Also on February 15, at 8:25 p.m., people in the Lewis mountain range of South Australia spotted "a cigar-shaped object traveling high in the sky from west to east. It appeared to be four times the size of a jumbo jet." Not a sound was heard from the object. One man took a color photograph of the UFO with his camera. Further east, in Eltham, Vic., a suburb south of Melbourne, residents reported three separate sightings of "light illumination" UFOs. The first was at 9:30 p.m., with the light headed southeast. The second was at 9:40 p.m. and headed east. The third and final UFO was at 9:45 p.m. and flew off to the southeast. At 11:25 p.m. the night of February 15, people in Quakers Hills, N.S.W., near Sydney, reported seeing "an oval orange-red illumination heading northwest towards Richmond." The UFO stopped and hovered on several occasions during its ten-minute flyover and "appeared the size of a grape held at arm's length." After midnight on Sunday, February 16, 1997, at 12:05 a.m. observers in Brisbane spotted "an orange- white illumination appearing in and out of clouds" just west of the seaside city. At 3:20 a.m., February 16, people in Adelaide saw "a bright white illumination traversing the sky, then (it) suddenly stopped. When it began moving again, it gave off a series of flashes." To some, the UFO "appeared as a cross shape with one light at each end." On Monday, February 17, 1997, people in Duncraig, W.A. reported a second weird "solar effect" identical to the one on February 15. A similar incident also took place in Duncraig on October 18, 1996. At 11:20 p.m. Monday night, February 17, "an extremely bright orange fireball" flew "from northeast to southeast right over" the Australian Space Agency base outside of Alice Springs, in the Northern Territory. The UFO's altitude was 20,000 to 30,000 feet and it was "three to four times larger than the stars." It was last seen heading for the Oorarginna mountain range. At 11:30 p.m., February 17, "a very large and bright orange illumination" appeared over Mildura, a city on the Murray River, about 450 kilometers (270 miles) northwest of Melbourne and 300 kilometers (180 miles) east-northeast of Adelaide. Witnesses reported a "large shape" poised above the orange glow. The UFO flew away to the northwest, stopping a few times before reaching the horizon. Tuesday, February 18, saw more sightings all around the island continent. At 1 a.m., in Western Australia, at Bull Creek, near Perth, witnesses saw "three or four lights cross the sky," making a strange rumbling noise. At 5:30 a.m., February 18, in Prospect, S.A. a "large white illumination traveling at (high) speed to the north" was seen. Its speed was estimated at 300 kilometers per hour (180 mph). Tuesday night, February 18, at 10:30 p.m., people in Warrandyte, Vic., near Melbourne, people saw "three large bright orange fireballs" flying "in a triangular formation for 5 to 10 mintues. The glows were described as being as "large as a grapefruit held in your hand at arm's length." Wednesday, February 19, 1997, saw the flap shift back to Sydney for one day. At 5:30 a.m., "three or four intensely bright orange ball illuminations" were seen rotating around each other as they crossed the sky over North Head. The UFOs were moving extremely fast. At 6:45 a.m., three large orange UFOs "with some burning coming from them" were seen over the suburb of Paddington. That morning, radio station 3MMM stunned its listeners by reporting a scorched crop circle in a paddock on the outskirts of Werribee, a suburb southwest of Melbourne. The circle was seen from the air by a private pilot at 6:30 a.m., who radioed the tower. The scene was investigated by Melbourne ufologist Peter Wanliss, who reported, "It was about 30 feet (10 meters) across with the grass flattened in a clockwise direction. The centre part seemed very symmetrical. Just within the perimeter of the circle were six circular indentations, each about a foot (0.3 meters) across and four inches (10 centimeters) deep. These were also located in exact symmetrical locations around the circle. The bottom of each hole was slightly parabolic and bore a cross imprint that was impressed further in." However, Wanliss said he believes the circle to be a hoax. He noted that the "brown burn marks appear to have been painted on" and "the imprints looked dug out rather than 'pressed' by a solid weight." At 3:45 p.m., a man in Nicholson, East Gippsland, Vic. reported a "scorched earth circle" similar to the one in Werribee. There are still no reports on this site as of February 23, 1997. At 9:20 p.m., February 19, people in Geelong, Vic., a city on Port Phillip Bay 45 kilometers (27 miles) southwest of Melbourne, reported seeing a large "banana-shaped or crescent orange illuminated object" traveling in a northwesterly direction, headed for Ballarat. At 9:45 p.m., February 19, "five bright yellow- white lights" crossed the sky over Adelaide. Three lights flew in a triangular formation, while the other two smaller lights flew parallel to the triangle. In the night's second event, one light flew away to the north, the other to the south. Then the lights turned, crossed each other's path and disappeared. At 9:10 p.m., "a very large glowing illumination" was seen in the sky over Mount Barker, 30 kilometers (18 miles) south of Adelaide. At 9:30 p.m., two UFOs visited Annandale, a suburb of Sydney, heading west. They were described as flattened discs, something like a drummer's cymbals. At 11:20 p.m. a group of "three white lights" were seen speeding over Frankston, Vic., a port on the eastern shore of Port Phillip Bay, 35 kilometers (21 miles) southeast of Melbourne. They flew at an altitude of 300 to 400 meters (1,000 to 1,320 feet). Ten minutes later, at 11:30 p.m., "a large yellow white light" flew over Frankston, heading due west. (Many, many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National UFO Hotline for this story.) ALIENS SIGHTED IN CHILE UFOs were busy elsewhere in the southern hemisphere last week, as well. Three encounters were reported around Santiago de Chile. On Sunday, February 16, 1997, at 12:30 p.m., motorists in Chivilingo, a town north of Santiago de Chile, pulled over to the side of the road to watch an unusual spectacle in the sky. What people described as "an elgongated cloud" suddenly split into two cigar-shaped objects. The two then came together to form a giant "cigarro." Then this object split into four cigar-shaped UFOs, which tilted on their own axes, forming a perfect triangle in the sky. Minutes later, the four objects coalesced into one "cigarro," and then split into two. The two then split into four, and all four flew away at high speed. A truck driver at the scene took photographs, and these are now being evaluated by Agrupacion de Investigaciones Ovniologicas (AION), a well-known Chilean ufological study group. At 4:30 a.m. on February 16, two youths, aged 16 and 14, returning home to Lago de Rapel, a town in the Andes south of Santiago de Chile. Suddenly, "they found they were being followed by an OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO) and they hurried to get home fast. Once they got home, they saw that the OVNI was still out there. So they went in the house and woke their father, who thought they were joking." After dragging Papa out of bed, they peered out the front window. "To their surprise, the OVNI was on the ground, and a small being was standing outside of it. The being was 1.5 meters (4 feet, 8 inches) tall (with) a big and bald head, no description of the eyes, and wearing a bluish suit. All three got scared and went and hid until it went away." On Thursday, February 13, at 11:30 p.m., Marta Aguilar Montoya and her two small children were asleep in their bedroom on Gran Avenida in the Llano section of Santiago. All at once, she heard a crackling noise "as if the TV was on but without any signal." Turning to look at the room's TV set, she spied "a small person, 1.5 or 1.6 meters (4 feet, 8 inches to 5 feet) tall, wearing a tight suit and a helmet. The helmet had a visor, so she could not see its eyes." The occupant also "wore a backpack connected to the helmet by two hoses, one over each shoulder." With her husband away at work, Marta "was scared to death. She pulled both children, sleeping in the same room, toward her and stayed there just watching." The occupant "never took its eyes off her" but made no move toward the family. After several minutes, the occupant turned to the bedroom wall. Again Marta heard the same strange crackling SSSSHHHH noise. The occupant then "disappeared through the wall, leaving only his silhouette on the wall, which disappeared after two minutes." Both the Lago de Rapel and Llano cases are now being investigated by AION. (Muchas gracias a Luis Sanchez Perry para ese informacion.) CHUPACABRAS IN BRAZIL On Saturday, February 8, 1997, Brazil's Policia Militar was called to a small farm on the outskirts of Brotas, a town of 20,000 in Sao Paulo state. This rural area, devoted to cattle and sugar cane, in near Bebedouro, about 250 kilometers (150 miles) northwest of the city of Sao Paulo. According to ufologist Joao Pereira Torres, the officers "found a small dead sheep at the peak of a hill. Apparently it had some holes in the skull, and the body was completely dry, almost mummified." The farmer told the Policia Militar that he had "heard strange noises in the field close to the house." During a search of the area, one officer reported seeing "a tall dark shape" in the sugar cane. He called for assistance. Searching the area, the officers reportedly found "a strange greenish liquid" on the ground among the stalks. The following morning, Sunday, February 9, 1997, Angelinha Fagundes Montt, a young woman from Brotas, left church with her family and saw "an unusual flight of helicopters" circling the town. Some she recognized as Brazilian; the others "were black and I didn't recognize them. It's highly unusual to see so many helicopters over this part of the (Sao Paulo) state." Pereira added that "a veil of secrecy" has descended over Brotas. (Muito obrigado ao Sergio Graciotti for this story.) UMMITES RETURN TO MEXICO Colonel Steve Wilson (USAF Ret.) of Skywatch was in Mexico recently to investigate rumors of UFO flights. While in Concepcion del Oro, a town in Zacatecas state 64 kilometers (40 miles) southwest of Saltillo, he was treated to a sighting of his own. Col. Wilson interviewed a farm worker named Gonzalez Cabrillo, who told him that UFOs had been seen repeatedly around Pico del Toro (2,493 meters or 8,229 feet) west of town. Gonzalez also claimed to have spoken to the occupants. The aliens reportedly told Gonzalez "that they came from a planet called Ummo, which was much like this one. That they had come on a mission." "The people were not scared of them," Col. Wilson reported, "and about all I could get out of them was that they (the occupants) were dark-complected and looked like themselves." Midway through this interview, "while we talked, a formation of about 10 cross-shaped UFOs darted by overhead at 20,000 feet," he added, "It seems to be happening every day down there." (Many thanks to Skywatch International for this story.) (Editor's Note: Back in November 1996, a latrine rumor made the rounds at Vance Air Force Base in Oklahoma. According to the rumor, four USAF instructors on a routine training flight over the Sierra Madre Oriental mountains, southeast of Saltillo and Concepcion del Oro, ran into a glowing disc-shaped UFO and chased it for several minutes before it shot off into space. Looks like Tacitus was right when he said, "Rumor is not always wrong.") NEW UFO IN COLORADO On Tuesday, February 18, 1997, at 5:58 p.m., a "large golden-yellow cigar-shaped object" was seen two miles (3 kilometers) east of Canon (pronounced "Canyon") City, Colorado. The UFO hovered about 500 feet above one of the peaks of the Sangre de Cristo mountain range. Jim Roberts and his son, Jeff, of Howard, Colo. were returning from a trip to Pueblo when they spied the UFO. "The object was visible for two to three minutes with solar illumination in the setting sun." Roberts took a photograph of the UFO through his windshield. Both described the UFO as "at a 15 to 20 degree tilt, about two inches long, wide as a pencil and did not move at all in relation to the peak," calling it "a totally beautiful and spectacular sight." (Many thanks to Tim Edwards for this story) UFOs LINKED TO RECENT CATTLE MUTILATIONS On January 12, 1997, at 2:30 a.m., Pedro Viera, a retired police officer, was driving home on Route 40 between Caguas and Humacho in Puerto Rico. All at once, he saw a disc-shaped UFO hovering over a field, levitating a bull with what he described as "a tractor beam." Bellowing in terror, the bull passed through an aperture on the bottom of the saucer and was lost to sight. Viera immediately stepped on the gas pedal, setting off in pursuit. Speeding down Route 40, he managed to keep the UFO in sight. All at once, he was cut off by a late-model 4X4 pickup truck and forced to the side of the road. According to Viera, two men in black BDU uniforms emerged from the truck, walked over to his car and "told me to let them do what they were doing." At first he didn't understand what the man meant; then he realized he was talking about the saucer. Having lost sight of the UFO anway, Viera continued his journey home. Five hours later, shortly after 7 a.m., several Puerto Ricans found a mutilated cow further along on Route 40. The animal, they said, "looked as if it had been dropped from a considerable height." (Many thanks to Scott Corrales for this story.) >From the UFO Files... ARIZONA'S MYSTERY METEOR One hundred years ago, on February 24, 1897, a truly remarkable event took place in southeastern Arizona. Here's an actual report from the period: "The following account of a meteor in Arizona is communicated through W.T. Blythe, Observer and Section Director for the Weather Bureau at Phoenix, Ariz.:" "Tombstone, Ariz., February 27, 1897--On Wednesday afternoon, February 24, at 3:45 (p.m.) local time, or 2:45 Pacific time, sitting in the house I heard a noise resembling thunder, but yet not like it, lasting 15 or 20 seconds. I felt no vibration or movement of any kind. On inquiry in this town I find that a meteor fell near by; many say that they saw it, and many concur in saying that windows and doors rattled, etc. I am told that a piece of the meteor has fallen at St. David, about 12 miles away, and I have written to see if I can secure the stones for the public--Henry M. Gee, Voluntary Observer." "From a newspaper slip inclosed by Mr. Gee, we learn that the meteoric stone which fell near the ranch of J.N. Curtis, a short distance below (south) St. David, was secured by the latter. It weighed 27 pounds and had buried itself in the ground after plowing up the earth for a considerable distance." "At Tombstone the broad white lines (now known as condensation trails or contrails--J.T.) which marked the flight of the meteor from southwest to northeast, were distinctly seen after it passed. At Benson this trail remained visible for fully five minutes. At Tombstone the interval between its visible passage and the subsequent explosive sound (sonic boom) was about 50 seconds. The noise as of a great explosion was heard, but especially at Dragoon and Benson." "A special report on this meteor received from Prof. S.M. Woodward, of Tucson, says:" "The meteor was seen be enough people to have determined everything about its path if those who saw it had taken pains to accurately observe the directions and the times. The way people were deceived by it was amusing. One thought that it fell a few hundred yards away from our buildings on the Mesa (River), but it must have been distant at least 50 miles; he says it looked like an incandescent lamp bulb floating slowly down. A woman ducked her head and thought it went over her no higher than the tops of the telegraph poles. I have not been able to substantiate the report in regard to a piece falling from it at St. David. The following is a summary of such facts as I have been able to gather." "About 2:50 p.m. Pacific standard time on February 24 (1897) a large meteor fell in Arizona. It was seen by a number of people in Tucson and vicinity as a brilliant light in the east although the sun was shining brightly at the time. The path was nearly perpendicular to the horizon and was marked by a distinct ribbon-like band of white vapor which persisted for several minutes. The meteor was seen by a man about 25 miles west of Tucson, by a man in Sonora, Mexico and by people in Benson, Tombstone and Solomonville (now Solomon--J.T.)." From Sonora it seemed to fall in the direction of Tombstone or Pearce and from Benson in a direction somewhat north of east. At Benson the meteor was seen to explode near the horizon, and the loud noise of the explosion was heard after an interval, estimated at from one to three to four minutes." "At Dragoon the noise was heard and described as terrific. From Wilcox and vicinity there are only rumors of the meteor having been observed. At all places as nearly as can be learned the path seemed to be nearly perpendicular to the horizon. If any pieces reached the earth, they probably fell near Dragoon." (See the Monthly Weather Review for February 1897, pages 56 and 57; also the Tombstone, Arizona Epitaph for February 26, 1897) (Editor's Note: For the meteor to have been seen as far north as Solomon, it had to have made a 40 degree turn northward east of Tucson, over the Dragoon Mountains.) FUN WEBSITES Don't miss our parent site, UFO INFO, at this address: http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/index.htm. Back issues of UFO ROUNDUP can be found at http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts That's it for this week. Best wishes from "the paper that goes home--UFO ROUNDUP." See you next weekend. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 1997 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post any stories from UFO ROUNDUP on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of the newsletter in which the item appeared.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 24 STS80 and STS48 updates From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:23:58 GMT Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:47:40 -0500 Subject: STS80 and STS48 updates and Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:17:26 GMT To: 72326.3625@compuserve.com From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> Subject: STS 48 SPACE SHUTTLE VIDEO SHOWS SAUCER In the study of the STS 80 events, (space shuttle ufos) we have given sts-48, (Discovery, 1991) a re-look, and review, and now it appears that event 3, as per Don Ratsch, shows what seems like a structured craft, i.e., a "flying saucer", for five to ten seconds. Slowed down by freeze-frame, it shows a shape-shifting object that does often look like a saucer with a dome on it. Given the tendency of the media and the public to demand that ufos look like "space ships", and not fiery blobs, this should make many excited and happy. The NASA/Gov't connection is good. Debris and ice just don't look like saucers....and this has a firm trajectory. Forward to Ted Koppel's producer at ABC, and all lists, Strange Univ.,etc. Seriously. Stills and video copies have been sent out to the usual suspects. Donations to help pay back these costs are appreciated. STS 80 UPDATE (Space Shuttle UFOs) l) Orbit, as per NASA web site, was 218 miles, which means any fireballs seen near the shuttle were *definitely* not in any air whatever (stops at 55miles) and thus were anomalous objects, not meteors. 2) Jim Dilettoso has many calculations that show the largest objects were not close to the lens, and hence not ice, nor debris. 3) Our mystery astronaut agrees that the large objects, no 1 and no 2, (there are 65 or more...) are not normal debris nor known objects from his experience in space. These look like round bright balls that change (shape-shift) to other shapes, such as champagne corks and lemons. (shape-wise). 4) The largest fireball, we will call object no. 3 for reference. 5) Dr. Gerald Hawkins, of Stonehenge fame, and crop circles, says that the objects (no 3, and others like fireballs) cannot be meteors. No air to burn in. Tails too long. Fiery tails. 6) Dr. Maccabee and Dr Kasher are mulling the data over. 7) Jim D says that the first object is in focus. I agree. 8) Kasher says that the distance to the horizon is 1330 miles. Object no. 1 seems to get there. 9) We have located a saucer image in the older STS 48 images and we will isolate that, re-tape it, and photograph it. 10) There is also a multi-legged "space bug" in STS 48 footage. 11) All on the Ad Hoc Committee agree that the time is not ripe this week to go public, and more analysis is needed, before we do. All ambitious ufologists who want fame are urged to wait until the right time, and then act in unison. Let us not blow it. Comments call 415-989-5005. Spend a nickel. Ye editor. "Not only is the universe stranger than you imagine, the universe is stranger than you CAN imagine." JBS Haldane NOTICE: Museum is open . 709 Union st,North Beach,SF,CA Ye editor Erik Beckjord,BA,MBA Curator - the UFO,Bigfoot& Loch Ness Monster Museum Box 9502 Berkeley,CA 94709 510 - 848-2233,415-974-4339 VM,415-989-5005 on site museum. Lists: Beckjord@transbay.net Museum: ufobfmuseum@value.net see: http://pwp.value.net/ufomus/ ( UFO Museum) Search for other documents from or mentioning: beckjord | 72326.3625 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 24 Re: Friedman v Randles From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 21:49:16 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:53:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles Mike Malone said ... >This is a serious serious problem. His livelyhood was threatened. It's >real easy to say that you wouldn't sue when it doesn't threaten the way you >make money, but when feeding your family is at stake, and you are in a >business that relies heavily on public perception of your ability, such >attacks need to be dealt with appropriatly. I understand that. What I don't understand is how Friedman thinks his ability to earn a living was threatened by a small piece of shoddy journalism in a regional UK newspaper, not read by most Britons and probably all but unknown to anyone in the USA? Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." Charles Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 24 Re: Friedman v Randles From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Feb 97 20:54:49 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:55:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. Since I am quoted in this-- > Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:39:24 -0600 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: MWayne@bigfoot.com (Michael Malone) > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Friedman v Randles --a propos-- >>Date: 22 Feb 97 17:18:34 EST >>From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Friedman v. Randles (was 'Libel') --I guess I should respond. (Very polite, we are, Dukes, as a class.) I take Michael's point entirely that context is everything when judging a threat. In fact the Private Eye carry-on started with a profile of some hilarity of the company I worked for and some of Les Plus Grands Fromages therein. If the company had been somewhat more strait-laced than it was (and "bent" would hardly describe the state of some of its laces) it's conceivable that the continuing (un)cover- age of my fictitious bounder-like behavior could have had a deleteri- ous effect on my prospects. If the same happened today I might be less charitable, not being cocooned inside a large-ish company with a bunch of like-minded degenerates, and therefore at considerably greater commercial risk, especially in the sufffocating climate of political correctness that now pervades much of British publishing. There are two questions about the MEN article: (a) Is it actually defamatory of Stan Friedman? and (b) Could it be deemed to have decreased his earnings as a result? (a) What does JR actually say about HH and in particular STF? According to the article, she says the meeting at Radcliffe Civic Hall, and by implication STF's contribution, is "about as factual as a Steven Spielberg movie." She could have demonstrated the truth of that in court, using the same argument Ed Stewart did recently to indicate the total lack of a chain of evidence to demonstrate the "genesis and provenance" of the MJ-12 papers - an impeccable use of nothing but logic, which STF then characterized as "vindictive personal attacks". (Even Spielberg's "Close Encounters" was based on facts of a kind.) JR then 'slated "dangerous and highly suspect non-science" from cultists and crackpots'. It's ambiguous as to whether she or the paper are calling STF and HH in particular "crackpots" etc, and we'd have to see the letter she wrote to know if she used these words at all. I think a decent lawyer or even JR herself on a good day could lay out a pretty good case that her phrases "dangerous and highly suspect non-science" and '"absolute nonsense about crashed space- ships and dead aliens" as damaging to sober links between serious ufologists and the scientific community' were fair comment (which in law does not mean "balanced" comment, but "just" comment). Then we have "American UFO fanatic Stanton Friedman". The paper said that. The word "fan" (as in "fanzine", "fans of Princess Diana" etc) derives from "fanatic". Means a keenie, buff or even anorak [nerd]. Hardly defamatory, if perhaps derogratory. But one of history's Great Days In Court We Will Never See would consist of someone as well-informed as JR taking STF's many omissions and shifts of empha- sis in his writing and his presentations to the cleaners in front of a jury of dour and irreverent Lancashire worthies, and showing that he is in the colloquial sense "fanatical" in his belief in and defense of the "reality" of the ETH and UFOs as alien spacecraft. The MEN, not JR, maintains that "Mr Friedman is a disciple of the theory that an alien space-ship crashed in the New Mexico desert in 1947, since when the US Government has made a secret pact with captive aliens about a quota system for spiriting earthlings away to their planet in the system Zeta Reticuli" --which we all know is only partly true anyway. But, as I remarked before, a Lancashire (or even a Hampstead) jury might very well not consider one part dafter than another, and a barrister would certainly argue that there is no difference. (I reluctantly forgo the opportuni- ty to regale you all with my version of the appropriate speech.) Some people would sue you if you accused them of crediting anything at all about UFOs. So I can't see anything defamatory here - just inaccurate - given that STF says what he does. Then: "These people claim the only information garnered from having aliens in a freezer for 42 years is that they have a fetish for strawberry ice-cream." she declared. If JR could have shown that she did not refer to HH and STF by the "these people" mentioned here, then she has a defense. Is the MEN being defamatory? Well, I think so, but see above on barrister's line. JR is then quoted saying: '"Virtually all witnesses are sincere at recounting what they see. But unfortunately, the public perception of UFOs as alien spacecraft - because of the outrageous tripe that gets written - marks them out as some kind of lunatics," she added.' The "lunatics" here are the abused and traduced witnesses, not our intrepid US ufologist and the geezer with the Alien Bow Tie. Outrage- ous tripe does get written in this connection, but there is no suggestion that HH and STF have written it - the focus of the piece has changed. And finally: 'Jenny said: "Half-baked tales that are never investigated make our task doubly difficult because we have to re-assure the academics that all ufologists are not like that."' Same comment as above. In the context of the article as a whole, however, it *could* be inferred by the uninformed reader that STF did no investigation (cue for list of archives, de-da-de-da), but then the question is whether JR intended that meaning or the paper imposed it, and therefore where the "guilt" really lies. My opinion: JR was outspoken, but did not go beyond fair comment. To be sure one would like to see her letter. Stan has my fax number, so if he'd like to shoot it down the line to me I'll key it in for the delectation of the List. (b) Did STF suffer any material damage? To answer that one would need to know (i) the capacity of the hall (ii) the break-even point, ie how many tickets had to be sold at what price to cover STF's fee, hiring costs, administration &c &c (iii) how many tickets were sold, and (iv) whether STF was paid the fee he demanded. Only if the promoter(s) could show they sold insufficient tickets to afford to pay STF's fee, and he was out of pocket, could STF claim he was materially damaged. And that would still be subject to the tickets being reasonably priced. Why should he care the place was half-empty as long as he got his fee? Or was he on a percentage of the gate? Perhaps Stan could enlighten us on those details. Enquiring minds on all sides of the seven seas would like to know. If the kind of stuff the Birdseed Bros put on these days is anything to go by, a jury could possibly be persuaded that the curious beliefs - I mean, *additional* curious beliefs - attributed to STF might actually have increased the gate. Maybe not so easy then as now, though. (c) Other musings I would really like to know who initiated this action. Did Harris suggest suing for libel to Stan, or did Stan suggest it to HH? Would Stan like to enlighten us about that, too? Yes, the legal issue is over and done. But it has become plain from the exchanges on this thread that some think the action was indefen- sible morally, took advantage of the British legal system to embarrass and discomfort Jenny Randles (would STF have sued for libel in a US court, in the same circumstances?), that STF's action rankles deeply still, and he (regardless of his views on UFOs) is held in some despite as a consequence. All that *needed* to be aired, not least so that Stan knows how he's regarded by people who are *at least* his equals, and so that he can justify himself to them *by addressing _their_ objections* - perhaps we are all horribly mistaken, after all; we should certainly like to be reassured - *not* the historical record. It is not as easy as "defamation is defamation", and STF is being obtuse if he thinks that that is a compleat answer. Just so everyone knows: I have had a few public run-ins with Jenny and think she draws as many unwarranted conclusions from her data as I think Stan does from his. This is not - for me - a debate about the quality of anyone's work. It is about whether the law served justice, and indeed whether justice was what was sought in the first place. In this (as so often before), I believe justice was not served. Only those involved in bringing the action can illuminate the latter point. The medium is the message. I see by the papers that the MEN had the ill grace to publish the names and whereabouts of a few convicted paedophiles lately, with the result that one unfortunate innocent lookalike pensioner had the shit kicked out of him by an outraged mob. The MEN editor "accepted no responsibility for the incident". (Inde- pendent, 24 Feb 97, p1) That's the kind of paper we're talking about. In Jenny, we are talking about a person whose moral standards are a million miles removed, and in an hygienically upward direction, from that kind of meretriciousness. I think it's time we heard from Stan again. best wishes Peter B
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 CNI News Manhunt for the 'Cameraman' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:19:56 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:34:38 -0500 Subject: CNI News Manhunt for the 'Cameraman' TEXT by Michael Lindemann >From www.cninews.com Please note that I am just posting this -- I do not happen to be anything other than the messenger. However, I do think it is a step in the right direction. CNI News ManHunt for the Alien Autopsy Cameraman Have you seen this man? CNI News is launching a full-scale search for the alleged cameraman who shot Ray Santilli's alien autopsy film footage. Our "manhunt" will use the interactive power of the worldwide web as its primary asset, supported by the latest and best evidence we can acquire, including still and motion pictures of the man himself. The stakes are high. Despite the best efforts of dozens of top researchers in the U.S. and elsewhere, the autopsy controversy has resisted solution since it began in early 1995. Resolving the cameraman's identity will surely help to resolve the greater mystery of the footage itself. Working with CNI News, you or someone you know might provide the crucial tip that cracks this case. CNI News "Manhunt" is comprised of the following parts: Background on the new cameraman video The cameraman images -- stills and video The cameraman's story -- two versions The cameraman's possible whereabouts, past and present Response page -- Tell us what you know "This project at the CNI News site... may well be where the story breaks. We respect the direction you're going and we would like to help in every way we can to find this individual and to cover that on our [next] show." Robert Kiviat, Producer of "Alien Autopsy: Fact or Fiction"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Re: Friedman v Randles From: Jakes Louw <louwje@telkom.co.za> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:37:44 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 01:47:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles Peter Brookesmith wrote: >Date: 24 Feb 97 20:54:49 EST >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles >I think it's time we heard from Stan again. My opinion: I'd rather not, thank you. Let the issue die, please. Further, I feel that some of Stan Fried Man's <grin> claims are questionable, as proven (IMHO) by several postings from Ed Stewart, and also Jerry Cohen, if I'm not mistaken. However, what really is the issue? Either Stan sued Jenny for possible lack of revenue or image, or else it was a knee-jerk reaction due to the fact that he himself has serious reservations as to the veracity of some of his claims. While Schmitt & Randle would and are the first to admit that the whole Roswell hoo-ha MIGHT have even been a Mogul balloon, why does Stan stick to his claims with such bulldog persistence? My final word: just as is true for the Roswell incident, unless Stan can produce verifiable 3rd-party evidence that the MJ12 doc's etc. are authentic, I and many like me will have to put all of Stan's claims in the "possibly crackpot" basket, along with things like the Lesotho crash. OK, Stan? Sorry, but you can't stop people having an OPINION, and since this isn't public forum, you are welcome to attempt litigation. Jakes E. Louw Amateur UFOlogist
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 AUFORA News Update, Monday, February 24th, 1997 From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 21:25:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 02:15:22 -0500 Subject: AUFORA News Update, Monday, February 24th, 1997 AUFORA News Update Monday, February 24th, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ ___________________________ UFOs HAUNT NIGHT SKIES ALL OVER AUSTRALIA from UFO Roundup - http://www.ftech.net/~ufoinfo/roundup.hts Volume 2, Number 8 For the past two weeks, Australia has been repeatedly visited by UFOs. Over 50 encounters have been reported since February 1, including two landings in the suburbs of Melbourne. The flap began Saturday, February 1, 1997 with an incident in Tasmania, the island off Australia's southern coast. A Glengarry family reported finding traces of a weird "bright yellow jelly slime" in their yard. At 9:45 p.m., in Broken Hill, New South Wales (N.S.W.), a city 750 kilometers (450 miles) west of Sydney, people reported "sighting two bright lights traveling from the northwest to the southeast." At 9:51 p.m., another man saw a glowing object fly from the southeast to the northwest, then reverse direction and "shoot off to the southeast." On Sunday, February 2, 1997, at 9:50 p.m., witnesses in Woori Yallock, Victoria (Vic.) reported "a bright white light" moving rapidly "from west to east in the northern sky, moving very fast, taking about 40 seconds" to reach the eastern horizon. On Monday, February 3, 1997, at 9:30 p.m., residents of Albury, N.S.W., 200 kilometers (120 miles) west of Canberra, spotted "a white light traveling from north to south in a zig zag fashion." Also that night, on Australia's east coast, "a large orange object" appeared over Port Macquarie, N.S.W. at 10 p.m. The UFO, which at first people took for a helicopter, "held position in the sky for about ten minutes. Before the object shot off and disappeared, several smaller yellow lights" emerged from the underside of the object. Port Macquarie is 250 kilometers (150 miles) north of Sydney. Then, after midnight, at 2:46 a.m. on Tuesday, February 4, 1997, people in Yass, N.S.W. saw "a bright orange illumination traveling across the sky." They estimated it to be "about 1/2 to 1/4 the size of the moon." The UFO flew away to the northwest. In Gosford, N.S.W., 60 kilometers (36 miles) north of Sydney, witnesses sighted "a large blue-white light" near the Moonie Bridge. The UFO was "close to the ground" and an estimated 200 to 300 feet (60 to 90 meters) in diameter. A half-hour past midnight on Wednesday, February 5, 1997, people reported "flashing lights" located in and around the stars in Orion's belt. At 9 p.m. on February 5, Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) personnel at Bogan Gate, near Parkes, N.S.W., 275 kilometers (165 miles) west of Sydney, spotted a "white golden illumination" crossing the sky and heading west. Nearly a half-hour later, at 9:25 p.m., civilian eyewitnesses at Ngunnaiual reported "orange and flashing illuminations" in "an arch over Orion's belt." Several hours later, at 5:35 a.m. on Thursday, February 6, 1997, people in Cooma, N.S.W., a city west of the Gourock mountain range, 150 kilometers (90 miles) south of Canberra, spotted a UFO arrayed with lights heading east. By the time the sun had set February 6, the theatre of UFO action had shifted to the sparsely-populated state of Western Australia (W.A.). At 7:30 p.m., people in Perth, the state capital, saw a hovering "blue-green tube- shaped object" in the day's fading daylight "before any star could be seen." (Editor's Note: Right now it's summer in the southern hemisphere, so the days are much longer in Australia and Chile.) The following night, Friday, February 7, 1997, the UFO action moved to the southern state of Victoria. At 9:20 p.m., a "spinning yellow fireball" zipped across the sky, heading west, over Bairnsdale, Vic., just above the southern coast's Ninety Mile Beach and about 200 kilometers (120 miles) east of Melbourne. At 9:25 p.m., people in Maffra, 60 kilometers (36 miles) west of Bairnsdale, sighted "a spinning yellow fireball" heading west towards Melbourne. At 11 p.m., people in Barwon Head, Vic. sighted a UFO they described as "a moving and flashing yellow- red fireball illumination with a (dark) triangular shape on top." The UFO traveled in a north-northwest direction at about 15 degrees above the horizon. The following night, Saturday, February 8, 1997, at 8:45 p.m., people in the Sydney suburbs of Oatley, Kogarah and Hurstville along the St. George's River saw "a green-to-yellow fireball with no tail traveling south in the eastern sky (about) 30 degrees above the horizon. There was no sound. The object suddenly stopped and hovered." Witnesses estimated the UFO to be the size of "an AAA battery held at arm's length." Four hours later, at 12:40 a.m. on Sunday, February 9, 1997, further up the east coast in Brisbane, witnesses reported "an orange illumination traveling at the speed of a fighter plane" in the eastern sky at 30 degrees above the horizon." The UFO was headed south and soon disappeared among the stars of the Southern Cross. On Sunday night, at 9:25 p.m., "a yellow-red fireball" was seen in St. Kilda, a bayfront suburb on the south side of Melbourne. The UFO was headed north and "flying beneath the cloud cover" at an estimated speed of 800 kilometers per hour (480 mph). At 11:30 p.m., Queensland had its second sighting of the flap when a UFO flew over Sunnybank, a suburb 14 kilometers (9 miles) south of Brisbane. Witnesses described it as "a yellow-orange fireball" 10 to 15 miles away, moving in a 45-degree downward arc (top left to bottom right). Five hours later, on Monday, February 10, 1997, at 4 a.m., a UFO returned to Brisbane. It was described as "a blue and red oval-shaped illumination in the western sky (about) 30 degrees above the horizon. It appeared to be three times the size of the largest stars in the sky." The flap in Brisbane continued during the early morning hours of Tuesday, February 11, 1997. At 12:02 a.m., police in Brisbane received telephone reports of a huge UFO described as "a large red-pink illumination" near Mount Gravatt. The UFO hovered about 300 meters (1,000 feet) above the witnesses' heads for five minutes. At 2 a.m., "a series of lights in a triangular formation" were seen by Brisbane residents heading south toward the air base RAAF Amberley. The lights appeared to fly in either a V-formation or a /\-formation. On February 11, at 11:30 p.m., the city of Adelaide in South Australia (S.A.) reported its first sighting of the flap. The UFO was "a ball of fire that had red and blue associated with it." An hour and a half later, on Wednesday, February 12, 1997, at 1 a.m., people in Taree, N.S.W., a river port near the coast about 210 kilometers (125 miles) north of Sydney, reported seeing "a slow-moving orange-red fireball heading southwest." The UFO made no discernible sound. At 2:30 a.m., people again noticed "a fireball traveling in the sky." As the UFO passed over, TV sets suddenly switched on without being touched by owners. After the UFO left, the TV sets all shut off at once. After a 24-hour breather, the flap picked up again on Friday, February 14, 1997, this time in Victoria. At 11:15 p.m., residents of Craigieburn, a southern suburb of Melbourne, saw "a bright disc-shaped light" hovering above a paddock. Witnesses also saw what looked like automobile headlights in the paddock while the UFO hovered. Four or five seconds after the UFO flew away, the "headlights" winked out. A few hours later, on Saturday, February 15, 1997, at 4:40 a.m., residents of Parkinsville, another suburb of Melbourne, saw a star-sized "red-blue illumination in the southwest sky." Later the same day, in Duncraig, W.A., near Perth, people outdoors at 12 noon reported a weird "solar effect." Sunlight suddenly dimmed in an "eclipse-like effect" although the sky was perfectly clear. The effect lasted for approximately five seconds. No aircraft were seen or heard overhead. The phenomenon remains unexplained. Also on February 15, at 8:25 p.m., people in the Lewis mountain range of South Australia spotted "a cigar-shaped object traveling high in the sky from west to east. It appeared to be four times the size of a jumbo jet." Not a sound was heard from the object. One man took a color photograph of the UFO with his camera. Further east, in Eltham, Vic., a suburb south of Melbourne, residents reported three separate sightings of "light illumination" UFOs. The first was at 9:30 p.m., with the light headed southeast. The second was at 9:40 p.m. and headed east. The third and final UFO was at 9:45 p.m. and flew off to the southeast. At 11:25 p.m. the night of February 15, people in Quakers Hills, N.S.W., near Sydney, reported seeing "an oval orange-red illumination heading northwest towards Richmond." The UFO stopped and hovered on several occasions during its ten-minute flyover and "appeared the size of a grape held at arm's length." After midnight on Sunday, February 16, 1997, at 12:05 a.m. observers in Brisbane spotted "an orange- white illumination appearing in and out of clouds" just west of the seaside city. At 3:20 a.m., February 16, people in Adelaide saw "a bright white illumination traversing the sky, then (it) suddenly stopped. When it began moving again, it gave off a series of flashes." To some, the UFO "appeared as a cross shape with one light at each end." On Monday, February 17, 1997, people in Duncraig, W.A. reported a second weird "solar effect" identical to the one on February 15. A similar incident also took place in Duncraig on October 18, 1996. At 11:20 p.m. Monday night, February 17, "an extremely bright orange fireball" flew "from northeast to southeast right over" the Australian Space Agency base outside of Alice Springs, in the Northern Territory. The UFO's altitude was 20,000 to 30,000 feet and it was "three to four times larger than the stars." It was last seen heading for the Oorarginna mountain range. At 11:30 p.m., February 17, "a very large and bright orange illumination" appeared over Mildura, a city on the Murray River, about 450 kilometers (270 miles) northwest of Melbourne and 300 kilometers (180 miles) east-northeast of Adelaide. Witnesses reported a "large shape" poised above the orange glow. The UFO flew away to the northwest, stopping a few times before reaching the horizon. Tuesday, February 18, saw more sightings all around the island continent. At 1 a.m., in Western Australia, at Bull Creek, near Perth, witnesses saw "three or four lights cross the sky," making a strange rumbling noise. At 5:30 a.m., February 18, in Prospect, S.A. a "large white illumination traveling at (high) speed to the north" was seen. Its speed was estimated at 300 kilometers per hour (180 mph). Tuesday night, February 18, at 10:30 p.m., people in Warrandyte, Vic., near Melbourne, people saw "three large bright orange fireballs" flying "in a triangular formation for 5 to 10 mintues. The glows were described as being as "large as a grapefruit held in your hand at arm's length." Wednesday, February 19, 1997, saw the flap shift back to Sydney for one day. At 5:30 a.m., "three or four intensely bright orange ball illuminations" were seen rotating around each other as they crossed the sky over North Head. The UFOs were moving extremely fast. At 6:45 a.m., three large orange UFOs "with some burning coming from them" were seen over the suburb of Paddington. That morning, radio station 3MMM stunned its listeners by reporting a scorched crop circle in a paddock on the outskirts of Werribee, a suburb southwest of Melbourne. The circle was seen from the air by a private pilot at 6:30 a.m., who radioed the tower. The scene was investigated by Melbourne ufologist Peter Wanliss, who reported, "It was about 30 feet (10 meters) across with the grass flattened in a clockwise direction. The centre part seemed very symmetrical. Just within the perimeter of the circle were six circular indentations, each about a foot (0.3 meters) across and four inches (10 centimeters) deep. These were also located in exact symmetrical locations around the circle. The bottom of each hole was slightly parabolic and bore a cross imprint that was impressed further in." However, Wanliss said he believes the circle to be a hoax. He noted that the "brown burn marks appear to have been painted on" and "the imprints looked dug out rather than 'pressed' by a solid weight." At 3:45 p.m., a man in Nicholson, East Gippsland, Vic. reported a "scorched earth circle" similar to the one in Werribee. There are still no reports on this site as of February 23, 1997. At 9:20 p.m., February 19, people in Geelong, Vic., a city on Port Phillip Bay 45 kilometers (27 miles) southwest of Melbourne, reported seeing a large "banana-shaped or crescent orange illuminated object" traveling in a northwesterly direction, headed for Ballarat. At 9:45 p.m., February 19, "five bright yellow- white lights" crossed the sky over Adelaide. Three lights flew in a triangular formation, while the other two smaller lights flew parallel to the triangle. In the night's second event, one light flew away to the north, the other to the south. Then the lights turned, crossed each other's path and disappeared. At 9:10 p.m., "a very large glowing illumination" was seen in the sky over Mount Barker, 30 kilometers (18 miles) south of Adelaide. At 9:30 p.m., two UFOs visited Annandale, a suburb of Sydney, heading west. They were described as flattened discs, something like a drummer's cymbals. At 11:20 p.m. a group of "three white lights" were seen speeding over Frankston, Vic., a port on the eastern shore of Port Phillip Bay, 35 kilometers (21 miles) southeast of Melbourne. They flew at an altitude of 300 to 400 meters (1,000 to 1,320 feet). Ten minutes later, at 11:30 p.m., "a large yellow white light" flew over Frankston, heading due west. (Many, many thanks to Ross Dowe of Australia's National UFO Hotline for this story.) __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will NOT be processed. ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 'Roswell Nurse' Found! From: MONTGOMERY FLOSS <0212104@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 22:46:05 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:50:24 -0500 Subject: 'Roswell Nurse' Found! I noticed that the actress who played the Glenn Dennis Roswell nurse in Showtime's movie currently appears in a Sprint long-distance commercial. At least I think it's her! Maybe an interview can be arranged... **************************************************************** Mac Tonnies * #415 Franken Hall, NWMSU * Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6488 * E-mail: 0212104@acad.nwmissouri.edu Web: www.nwmissouri.edu/~0212104/apu.html "Today's Abstractions are Tomorrow's Archetypes" ****************************************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Alfred's Odd Ode #99 From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:11:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:52:02 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #99 Apology to MW #99 (For February 25, 1997)=20 A useful application of the Alien View Is respecting the effort of a valuable few. Bell and Friedman spring readily to mind. Two finer men, I don=92t think we can find. Check the mewling, and the puling of their ignorant enemy. They rend gnashed mean gums, real filth, and aplenty! Art=92s ill wife is a _scoundrel_, a gold digging frame? Her tail=92s in the air, disrepute her sad aim? If true it is tactless, ruthless, <not insightful>. But FALSE it is fact-less, wounding, and spiteful. Think of this women, demure and petite, A swoon on her sick bed, Art ill at her feet. . . It is ill _will_ that wounds her, and keeps her room bound. We keep her in prison, her soul cruelly crowned. Toad stool like lies are the cause of her illness; On frivolous web pages of idled mind=92s shrillness. This distracts Art, who=92ll _still_ look at what=92s twitchy! Who=92ll fight the good fight; work to _stay_ in what=92s bitchy! He outlines a threat found in my Alien View, He eclipses the media, perhaps the fount of REAL news. With regard to what=92s wounding our own brother Friedman? Well, just walk in the _shoes_ of this tireless field-man. When you _know_ that *it=92s* real, and you=92re poked, and lampooned! When you=92ve _done_ the hard science, and still you=92re harpooned! Well I know what would happen if it happened to me! These crass opportunists trash my rep, and for _free_. . .? I=92d keep a lawyer on retainer. She=92d be a pit bull. She=92d _keep_ honor shiny =96 hair trigger =96 *judgmental*. How these men _endure_ their outrage, I can have no clue. . . Perhaps a price they pay to trod a path=92s hard trails they do. I=92m glad they _are_ the men of courage I can feel they are! I hope they keep their eyes up, skyward, at that strangest moving star! And to those that keep quipping, see your _selves_ as you are, As you feed from their crumbs; you=92re just flies on their bar. Without them your lives are colorless =96 useless. . . Bereft of their input it is valueless, juice-less. Admit your admiration, and the lust of your envy! Admit that you=92d _be_ them (but that _you=92d_ be more trendy!). Admit that _their_ courage is apparent =96 de-facto! Admit that _your_ courage is just so much crap -- So!=20 Lehmberg@snowhill.com The worst of them hide behind funny little names, or irrelevant titles like . . .oh, you know who they are. . .clever sociopathic vermin stealing crumbs from the plates of better men. . . . . .But, I wish they=92d lay off Mrs. Bell. I know my wife would be wounded to the quick at a fraction of the prevaricating smarm. Have courage, Ramona; suffer this campaign of discouragement; learn to thrive; come out stronger on the other end! And Mr. Friedman! As regards your detractors, where are their papers, their letters =96 their books on real subjects? Where is their dedication, their spirit, or their quest for some answers? Where is their scholarship, their research, or their study of evidence? Where is their contribution, their legacy -- where is _their_ gift to the demise of this repugnant enigma?=20 If it was one foot north of their collective anal pore they=92d know where it was. <not grinning> --=20 "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, unjustly burning at the fundamentalist's stake. My attorney files a wrongful death suit.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Re: Aurora and Dark Star From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:37:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:58:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Aurora and Dark Star UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: Hello Errol and All, Sorry to resurrect this old post. I had marked it for comment at the time. > Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:40:29 -0600 > From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> > To: updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Aurora and Dark Star > > Maybe someone can use this information... > > I was watching TLC a couple of weeks ago and they showed some video > that they speculated might be the Aurora aircraft, due to the > unusual appearance of the contrail. They also showed a fellow > (in Texas, I think?) that claimed to have monitored transmissions > from this plane as it flew overhead. He said that he heard the > plane referenced as "Dark Star." If it were not for a constant stream of rumors, where would these junior James Bonds be? We supposedly have a test of a Top Secret device, but here are the pilots talking in the "clear." Since every radio in the military now has an encryption device, the incident as discribed is highly unlikely. Even if they were talking in the "clear" does it seem logical to refer to something by a supposedly highly classified name? It seems that the more unlikely a story, and the more leaps of faith required, the more ready people are to believe it. > A few nights later another show (Discovery Channel?) featured a > new remote-controlled experimental plane, and it was shown in > flight, along with it's accompanying chase plane. It was referenced > as "Project DarkStar. > > I doubt there's a connection, but I'll hunt up what I can. My question is why bother? Jan Aldrich
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Philip Corso and MJ-12 From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:22:47 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:52:05 -0500 Subject: Philip Corso and MJ-12 Here's an interesting tidbit: In his upcoming book, all references to MJ-12 and his alleged involvement in it have been edited out. Now, they are saying that he was never a member of MJ-12, or that he saw any documents about MJ-12, though he did come into contact with the oversight committee. I find it interesting that these references have been
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Re: Friedman v Randles From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:20:11 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:50:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles In a message dated 97-02-24 23:57:10 EST, from UFO UpDates, Mike Malone said ... >This is a serious serious problem. His livelyhood was threatened. It's >real easy to say that you wouldn't sue when it doesn't threaten the way you >make money, but when feeding your family is at stake, and you are in a >business that relies heavily on public perception of your ability, such >attacks need to be dealt with appropriatly. Then Bob Rickard said: >I understand that. What I don't understand is how Friedman thinks his >ability to earn a living was threatened by a small piece of shoddy >journalism in a regional UK newspaper, not read by most Britons and >probably all but unknown to anyone in the USA? I had decided to stay out of this, but there are some facts that might be relevant. First, on September 15, 1989, after learning that I planned a book about Roswell, Stan wrote, "My suggestion would be that all three [Randle, Schmitt and Friedman] appear on the book (mine last) and with my getting a 25% share." This was without a single important contribution by Friedman to our research. Then on June 11, 1990 he wrote to my publisher saying, "...perhaps unfortunately shared some of my recent research with Randle and Schmitt. As [Bill] Moore would have told you there was talk of a book by him, Myself and Jaime Shandera updating the Roswell story." Please note that there was no invitation by Friedman for us to participate in that project, even though he was aware of our book. But he goes on, writing, "I am certainly anxious to see the Randle Schmitt book to see if once again my contribution is undervalued and if there are many factual mistakes, flights of fancy, lifting of my research much of which is unpublished." Before the book was even written, Friedman is suggesting that it would be inaccurate, a claim that he would reinforce with the reviews that he wrote about it. I suggested to many that Friedman, working with Moore, Shandera, and Whitley Strieber had attempted to block the publication with these, as well as other allegations. Friedman denied it. I told Dick Hall about it and he investigated. The results were published in the May/June 1993 International UFO Reporter. Hall wrote, "Randle alleged that Friedman and others, apparently acting in concert, had attempted to interfere with publication of the book UFO CRASH AT ROSWELL (then in preparation) by contacting the publisher, Avon Books, making charges of plagiarism and generally impugning Randle's character and integrity. I asked Randle for documentation, which he provided. I asked Friedman for an explanation, and he never replied." Let's look at one of these allegations. He wrote, "...lifting of my research much of which is unpublished." In his book, CRASH AT CORONA, he published a number of interviews with witnesses suggesting that either he or Don Berliner had conducted those interviews. In fact, they were conducted by me, recorded on video tape and supplied to the Fund for UFO Research. Nowhere do you find anything to suggest that. Instead you have the impression that either Friedman or Berliner had conducted the research. In the case of Robert Slusher, I asked if he had talked to either of them. He told me that the only other UFO researcher to call him was Len Stringfield. Neither Friedman nor Berliner even called to verify information. Or take the case of the interview with Bill Brazel. Once again it is lifted from my audio taped interview with the man. Not only that, Friedman then changes it so that it will corroborate the nonsense told by Gerald Anderson. He provides no acknowledgment as to the source of the information and then, without justification, alters it to reflect his own opinions. But I'm not the only one to receive such treatment. John J. Romero, Jr., an Albuquerque attorney wrote to Friedman on July 25, 1989. Friedman had apparently contacted the Central Florida Community College after Robert Hastings was booked to appear there, suggesting they cancel the Hastings appearance and replace Hastings with Friedman. Romero wrote, "Please be advised that our position is based on the written statement of Ms. Karyl Kumer, Director of Student Support Services of Central Florida Community College. In her statement, Ms. Kumer unequivocally reports that you [Friedman] had previously informed her that Robert Hastings did not have the 'real facts' and that 'he was just another fraud.'" Or what about Jim Moseley who wrote on August 1, 1992. "Re Friedman - I can only tell you, as I would tell anyone who asks, about my own experience with Uncle Stan: Back in 1966, the 'marsh gas' flap in Michigan indirectly propelled me to stardom in the UFO field, and I ended up lecturing to over 100 colleges around the country, on the lucrative college circuit. Then, around 1970, Stan started to appear on the curcuit (sic). He was indeed better qualified than I was, and I was getting tired of this thing anyhow - so I didn't mind being squeezed out - BUT I did mind his method: Several colleges told me that after I was already booked with them, he would call more than once and plead that they cancel me and put him on instead. Dirty pool, I say." I could go on, mentioning Friedman's paper presented to MUFON in Seattle in which he attacks the credibility and integrity of many other researchers. It is ironic that he was able to sue Jenny Randles over the things she allegedly said and yet feels that he can do the same to those with whom he disagrees. These activities by Friedman explain why I have no sympathy for him and that those who suggest that he was merely protecting his livelihood have misplaced their concern. He is quick to attack others with nonsense to discredit him. We all saw, not too many weeks ago, his suggesting that I was a government agent. He then suggested it was merely a joke, but only after levelling the charge. And it was not the first time he'd made that allegation. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 NASA Television Signal Gets a New Home From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:10:09 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:28:53 -0500 Subject: NASA Television Signal Gets a New Home Deanna Corridon Headquarters, Washington, DC February 25, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1733) RELEASE: N97-11 NASA TELEVISION SIGNAL GETS A NEW HOME On March 15, NASA Television will begin broadcasting via a new satellite that will allow reception by a wider audience throughout the continental United States, Alaska and Hawaii. NASA Television is designed to provide real-time coverage of Agency activities and missions as well as resource video to the news media, and educational programming to teachers, students and the general public. NTV currently is transmitted on the Spacenet 2 satellite, which is nearing the end of its life cycle. The GE-2 satellite, which was launched in January and is operated by GE Americom, will provide NASA TV with a larger "footprint," or coverage area. Effective March 15, NTV will be available on GE-2, Transponder 9C at 85 degrees West longitude, vertical polarization, with a frequency of 3880 Mhz, and audio of 6.8 Mhz. -end- For more information about NASA Television, including program scheduling, please visit the NASA Television home page on the World Wide Web at URL: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/ntv.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Randles Vs Friedman - 'Manchester Evening News' From: Andy Roberts <101322.751@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Feb 97 12:09:45 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:27:38 -0500 Subject: Randles Vs Friedman - 'Manchester Evening News' Sorry! seeing as JR's letter to the M.E.N. has been raised and it seems obvious no-one has a copy it's incumbent on me to throw in my bit again. In the letter - which I'm not typeing in full as I don't have the time or JRs permission -she basically points out that the M.E.N. article may have swayed some people into believing that this is the be all and end all of the topic of ufology being presented in the Manchester area. She then goes on to point out that the Manchester UFO Research Association, in conjunction with BUFORA were staging a lecture on 18 Nov. She does refer to the Harris organised lecture as "'starring' American UFO fanatic Stanton Friedman". - An opinion made perfectly reasonable to hold by Menodoza's clear reading of the interpretation of the word and one which in the circs I agree with. She goes on to request that "..there might be something you could do to make a news story out of our objections to the hyping of this sensationalised nonsense which is in danger of running amok throughout Britian." It is and it has! She then points out that she had just returned from a months tour of the US where she was "able to pursue this absolute nonsense about crashed UFOs and dead aliens first hand with educational results." No problems there then - JR has never been a supporter of the nuts and bolts crash retrieval stories. We then have: "The stories I could tell you about the outrageous tripe and the distortions, bogus documents and deceit with which the public in Britain are about to be confronted are disturbing." Again, all a perfectly valid opinion - although the sensitive might balk at the word 'deceit' - it depends on the interpretation. She follows with: "What I don't want to see is the Manchester public taken in by these wild claims without at least some chance to hear a more sober assessment." Perfectly reasonable, again. "I don't want to turn this into a personal vendetta against the crackpots or the cultists. But I thought there might be a story in the acute difference of opinion that has developed ......and that Manchester ufologists are actually saying the Friedman/Harris claims - which you helped him promote - are dangerous and highyly suspect." Remember this is long *before* the court case and JR is clearly saying, in what she thought was a private letter, that she does *not* want a vendetta. She *could* have chosen to be vindictive here if she had wanted to yet instead, unaware of the maliciousness that was to follow, she follows up a well argued case for the M.E.N. giving the other side of the story an airing with a clear statement that she does *not* want a dispute with people holding an opposing view. The letter then closes with a paragraph about the role/non-role the press play in ufology and how they "innocently mislead the public" and winds it all up with: "Someone has to start to get the honest truth across before we end up as demented as many Americans (where the highbrow press treat claims of vats of human body parts and pacts between canabalistic aliens and the US government as worthy of serious articles!!!) Don't let it happen here, please!" That's the bones of the letter. You'll have to believe me that there is nothing more of interest in there as regards the current thread. As far as I can see it's a perfectly reasonable response to what JR considered a biased and stupid article. Why Friedman/Harris chose to sue over something so petty as opinion, who initiated the action and why a solictor is allowed in UK law to act for himself are questions which few know or can speculate about. But it certainly *wasn't* because Stanty was going to lose any money as the result of a few thousand Mancunians going forth into the world and spreading evil tales about Friedman, refusing to buy his books and boycotting his lectures in droves. And anyone who thinks this needs to get some perspective on the dynamics of ufological politics. Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM Date: 25 Feb 97 14:34:26 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 14:56:17 -0500 Subject: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' Since I do not think this has been addressed, I am forwarding this on without comment. I'd like to hear input on this. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:02:09 +0000 From: R. Daniel Woolman <woolman@in-search-of.com To: UFO-L@MB.PROTREE.COM Subject: Alien Autopsy Film Hello eveyyone, In Search Of is committed to finding the truth and facts surrounding all aspects of our discussions. And, in those attempts we often find that the world of ufology is repleat with 'fools' who would have us be fooled. I have confirmed the following post I received a few days back, and with the permission of the sender, I am forwarding this post to you for review. I want to thank John English for his research into this matter and his detailed reponse which is correct. This is how we should be doing research at In Search Of. . . Dan ___________________________ Forwarded message begins... =========================== Dr. Woolman A little background: My name is John R. English, I am a past Director of the "International Aerospace Hall of Fame" (IAHF), San Diego Air & Space Historical center. During this time I was involved in the research, selection, and installation of several US and foreign astronauts, as well as other significant aviation related candidates. Research and photo evaluation were a common chore. This note is the result of some time spent reviewing the room contents as seen in the "Alien Autopsy" film. I realize that this subject has been conjectured to death, (so to speak), but there is to the best of my knowledge, one glaring omission __ The "DANGER" sign on the wall to the left of the telephone. During the early 1980's I found my self responsible for re-signing a large industrial facility in So CAL. to bring the various hazard signs up to OSHA requirements for that time. This involved the review and replacement of signs indicating 'DANGEROUS' or 'HAZARDOUS' environments in and around the facility. When I first saw the 'Alien Autopsy' film, I felt that the 'Danger' sign to the left of the telephone looked all to familiar. I decided to research the Graphic format of the 'DANGER' warning sign in the film. This involved an archival search with OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) and an additional search of the ANSI (American National Standard Inst.) archives. The results were most interesting in that they confirmed what I originally suspected. The Graphic format used in the 'DANGER' sign was adopted by ANSI in 1967 Ref. index Z53.1-1967 and approved for OSHA in 1973, with implementation to be achieved by 1983, Ref. OSHA index 1910.145 All said and done, it is very unlikely that a sign with graphics design originating in 1967 would be available for use in a 1940's environment and or film. FYI John R. English
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Re: Friedman v Randles From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 14:13:08 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:37:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:20:11 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Friedman v Randles >In a message dated 97-02-24 23:57:10 EST, >from UFO UpDates, Mike Malone said ... > >This is a serious serious problem. No s**t! How long must all this bickering crap go on? When are ALL OF YOU SO CALLED PROFESSIONAL RESEARCHERS going to POOL your resources and GET TO THE BOTTOM of the TRUTH??????? Are you all just silly ego trippers or do you really care about getting to the truth? I for one have about had it with book pedantry coming from those who could care less about substance and worry only about $ustenance. If you are not after truth you are coveting likewise 'opponents' materials and that seems to be going both ways resulting in established science having a rich resource for joke material. (Mark Russel pay attention) While in the meantime folks who have day jobs do better work in hobby mode as pertains to the truth about UFO. Spin on it. ~Pat~ ... EARTH FIRST! We'll strip mine the other planets later. Homepage: http://www.republic.net/~pparri Hale Bopp Comet & other stuff... http://www.bulletin-ol.com http://pwp.value.net/ufomus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Interesting links From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 11:56:08 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:38:37 -0500 Subject: Interesting links Go for `em... http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/CBoyce/ http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/cat/aeon/index.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 'Autopsy' Film From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:37:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:55:30 -0500 Subject: 'Autopsy' Film Hi all. On October 1st, 1996, Sam Sherman, president of Independent International Pictures Corp. of New Jersey, published an article in the MUFON UFO Journal (243, page 19), where he tells of some filmrights he sold to Santili, which was subsequently bootlegged (!). When he talks to Santili in 1995, Santili knows nothing of the importance of edgecodes in dating a film. But the most important thing is that he claims that the AA-film is part of a cult-B-horror movie from 1971 called "Brains of Blood", aka "The Creatures Revenge"- by director Al Adamson, who did cheap H.G. Lewis-kind of films like "Blood of Draculas Castle"... The movie is 83 minutes long and has Kent taylor, John Bloom and Regina Carroll as actors. Anyway, the description of the film found in Video Movie Guide by Mick Martin & Martha Porter is: "A mad doctor perform brain transplant and creates a hulkin' monster." A friend of mine who runs a cult-movie-association says that the movie can be purcahsed from Magnum Entertainment Inc. in California. Ph: 818-700 28 22, or: 800-624 6868. Does anyone have the time to check this up, or have any additional information for me so I can dismiss it from my pile of leads? Kind regards, Jorgen Westman / WUFOC http://www.wufoc.com wufoc@wufoc.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Re: Friedman v Randles From: MWayne@bigfoot.com (Michael Malone) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:15:12 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:52:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles >Date: 24 Feb 97 20:54:49 EST >From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles >The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. >Since I am quoted in this-- >> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:39:24 -0600 >> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >> From: MWayne@bigfoot.com (Michael Malone) >> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Friedman v Randles >--a propos-- >>>Date: 22 Feb 97 17:18:34 EST >>>From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >>>To: UFO UpDates <updates@globalserve.net> >>>Subject: Friedman v. Randles (was 'Libel') >--I guess I should respond. (Very polite, we are, Dukes, as a class.) Thank you, you are indeed a class act. >There are two questions about the MEN article: (a) Is it actually >defamatory of Stan Friedman? and (b) Could it be deemed to have >decreased his earnings as a result? Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I wasn't supporting STF's action, his choice of legal venue, his "correct" or "proper" status in initiating such an action. I am only of the opinion that when someone attacks your livelyhood, then you are duty bound to respond. >(a) What does JR actually say about HH and in particular STF? That is for a jury or a court or an out of court settlement to deciede. While I actually agree with you in that I would not have found, if I had been on a jury, that the statements were worthy of action, I have never agreed that STF had a case. Only that he had the duty to respond if his livelyhood had been attacked. >(b) Did STF suffer any material damage? >To answer that one would need to know (i) the capacity of the hall >(ii) the break-even point, ie how many tickets had to be sold at what >price to cover STF's fee, hiring costs, administration &c &c >(iii) how many tickets were sold, and (iv) whether STF was paid the >fee he demanded. I'll bow to your supperior knowledge of English libal law, however in the United States, Future earnings would also be considered. As to the rest of your musings, I find them extremely valid and would like an answer to them myself. >(c) Other musings >I would really like to know who initiated this action. Did Harris >suggest suing for libel to Stan, or did Stan suggest it to HH? Would >Stan like to enlighten us about that, too? >Yes, the legal issue is over and done. But it has become plain from >the exchanges on this thread that some think the action was indefen- >sible morally, took advantage of the British legal system to embarrass >and discomfort Jenny Randles (would STF have sued for libel in a US >court, in the same circumstances?), that STF's action rankles deeply >still, and he (regardless of his views on UFOs) is held in some >despite as a consequence. All that *needed* to be aired, not least so >that Stan knows how he's regarded by people who are *at least* his >equals, and so that he can justify himself to them *by addressing >_their_ objections* - perhaps we are all horribly mistaken, after all; >we should certainly like to be reassured - *not* the historical >record. It is not as easy as "defamation is defamation", and STF >is being obtuse if he thinks that that is a compleat answer. >Just so everyone knows: I have had a few public run-ins with Jenny >and think she draws as many unwarranted conclusions from her data as >I think Stan does from his. This is not - for me - a debate about the >quality of anyone's work. It is about whether the law served justice, >and indeed whether justice was what was sought in the first place. In >this (as so often before), I believe justice was not served. Only >those involved in bringing the action can illuminate the latter point. >The medium is the message. I see by the papers that the MEN had the >ill grace to publish the names and whereabouts of a few convicted >paedophiles lately, with the result that one unfortunate innocent >lookalike pensioner had the shit kicked out of him by an outraged mob. >The MEN editor "accepted no responsibility for the incident". (Inde- >pendent, 24 Feb 97, p1) That's the kind of paper we're talking >about. In Jenny, we are talking about a person whose moral standards >are a million miles removed, and in an hygienically upward direction, >from that kind of meretriciousness. >I think it's time we heard from Stan again. I agree. Michael -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Re: Friedman v Randles From: MWayne@bigfoot.com (Michael Malone) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:15:05 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:51:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Friedman v Randles >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 97 21:49:16 -0000 >From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Mike Malone said ... > >>This is a serious serious problem. His livelyhood was threatened. It's >>real easy to say that you wouldn't sue when it doesn't threaten the way you >>make money, but when feeding your family is at stake, and you are in a >>business that relies heavily on public perception of your ability, such >>attacks need to be dealt with appropriatly. > >I understand that. What I don't understand is how Friedman thinks his >ability to earn a living was threatened by a small piece of shoddy >journalism in a regional UK newspaper, not read by most Britons and >probably all but unknown to anyone in the USA? That is truely naive. Jenny Randles knew about it. If one local reader knew about it, had an interest in UFOs, and had Internet access, or a friend who does, many more would know about it. Not to mention basic word-of-mouth. And even if, as you imply, it NEVER would have gotten outside of the small region servered by this newspaper, are you honestly suggesting that a businessman accept incorrect and inappropriate information put out about their business in any market? Why should Friedman accept an attack in this market, but agressively persue an attack in other markets? Friedman, I assume, looked at the situation, and made the decision that the attack was unacceptable. You can second guess him all you want, but I would have reacted in the same manner. That region might be small, but it's still a market. Why abandon it based on lies and rumor and vicious attack. Again, let me restate my support of Mr. Friedman's defense of his livelyhood, not of his actions, position, research, or personality. Michael -- Michael Malone Kilo Foxtrot Four Mike Yankee X-ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Re: Philip Corso and MJ-12 From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:01:34 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:54:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Philip Corso and MJ-12 >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:22:47 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Philip Corso and MJ-12 >Here's an interesting tidbit: In his upcoming book, all >references to MJ-12 and his alleged involvement in it >have been edited out. >Now, they are saying that he was never a member of MJ-12, >or that he saw any documents about MJ-12, though he did >come into contact with the oversight committee. >I find it interesting that these references have been >taken out, though he was quick to use them to sell the >book to a publisher. Hi all. On November 10, 1992, the UN Committee heard the testimony of Lt. Col. Phillip Corso, USA, Ret., a member of the National Security Council staff during the Eisenhower Administration. Lt. Col. Corso was head of the special projects division of the Far East Command during the Korean War, in the G-2 section, with responsibility for keeping track of North Korean POW camps. During the closing days of the war, Lt. Col. Corso participated in discussions on the exchange of sick and wounded prisoners of war (the "Little Switch" operation), and the full exchange of prisoners ("Big Switch"). During his briefing he said that the North Koreans shipped 4 trainloads of Americans, through Manchuria to Man-chou-li. There they were transported or changed. There they were changed because of the gauge and sent to the Soviet Union.He says he had very definite information on two train loads. . . from Chinese prisoners of war, North Korean prisoners of war, civilian defectors, and photographs. He also had some photographs of the camps. Lt. Col. Corso estimated that each of the two train loads of U.S. POWs contained about 450 prisoners, for a total of 900 POWs transported to the Soviet Union. He stated that he had some inconclusive information as to the possibility of a third, similar trainload. In all, Lt. Col. Corso said he had 200 to 300 reports about these 900 POWs or related information. Eventually, he was asked to brief President Eisenhower personally on the situation, in a five-minute meeting which took place in mid-1953, or possibly as late as 1954. This meeting took place while Lt. Col. Corso was serving on the staff of the National Security Council. As Lt. Col. Corso testified: He informed president Eisenhower of US prisoners being shipped to the Soviet Union, and that he suspected that as many as 1200 soldiers were shipped. But he was certain that at least 900 defietly were shipped. As the president asked Corso of his opinion Corso said that the men would never come back and the president accepted it, with additioning words that the lost men's families would be kept out of the information. Then, among several people, Dr. Charles Mayo gave the statement on bacteriological warfare, and Ambassador Lodge on the United Nations prisoners of war. And we found out that at the time the Chinese, under Russian tutelage, had a detailed, scientific process of Pavlovian type experiments which they were conducting on our prisoners. So here we have a retired Lt. that says the AA-film is genuine? And at the same time he was responsable for conducting research on lost US soldiers during two wars that was captured and exposed to bacteriological experiments. A connection? Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:13:57 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:49:42 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' > Date: 25 Feb 97 14:34:26 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net > Subject: Re: AA Film Question > > Since I do not think this has been addressed, I am forwarding > this on without comment. I'd like to hear input on this. Here's my input. It's just another claim. As a member of the International Research Group investigating the film, what have you or your group done to research the claim? Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:54:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:57:04 -0500 Subject: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' Regarding... >Date: 25 Feb 97 14:34:26 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM >Subject: Re: AA Film Question Bob Shell brought up the subject of the danger sign... Bob, Theresa had mentioned this and it's an interesting observation. The DANGER is jumping to conclusions. First of all we obviously need to see the evidence. Is it an _exact_ match for the entire sign, or just the character set? If it's simply the character set, the capitalised letters used would seem to be almost the default. Is it inconceivable this basic character set wouldn't be used in 1947, or 1937, whatever. If it is comparable overall, then where did that design originate, was it based on a design already informally in use? One thing we should have learned from the film, and all that came with it, is not to make hasty judgements and that even the most expert of opinions can be mistaken and have opposing views. Let's see the evidence first of all. If there _is_ evidence that the sign is indisputably one which could not possibly have existed in 1947, then, for sure, that's a "no way". It might turn out to be evidence without conclusive proof, similar to the recently confirmed air hoses which are never seen in any shots of the floor and which seem to present no difficulty when moving quickly around the table! James. E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 25 UFO UpDate: Philip Corso and MJ-12 From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 17:24:02 cst Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:58:34 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDate: Philip Corso and MJ-12 >From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle] >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 10:22:47 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Philip Corso and MJ-12 Kevin Randle wrote: >Here's an interesting tidbit: In his upcoming book, all >references to MJ-12 and his alleged involvement in it >have been edited out. >Now, they are saying that he was never a member of MJ-12, >or that he saw any documents about MJ-12, though he did >come into contact with the oversight committee. >I find it interesting that these references have been >taken out, though he was quick to use them to sell the >book to a publisher. Hi Kevin, So what's the deal with Corso? His credentials *seem* real enough -- he did recently testify before Congress on US Korean War POWs. Have any of his military record / UFO-related claims checked out, or is he just another Bob Dean? Regards, Vince Search for other documents from or mentioning:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 Re: Aurora and Dark Star From: Loy Pressley <lkpres@koyote.com> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:49:25 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:01:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Aurora and Dark Star > Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:37:21 -0800 > From: jan@cyberzone.net (Jan Aldrich) > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Aurora and Dark Star > Sorry to resurrect this old post. I had marked it > for comment at the time. > > Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:40:29 -0600 > > From: Tim Joiner <tjoiner@flash.net> > > To: updates@globalserve.net > > Subject: Aurora and Dark Star > > I was watching TLC a couple of weeks ago and they showed some video > > that they speculated might be the Aurora aircraft, due to the > > unusual appearance of the contrail. They also showed a fellow > > (in Texas, I think?) that claimed to have monitored transmissions > > from this plane as it flew overhead. He said that he heard the > > plane referenced as "Dark Star." > If it were not for a constant stream of rumors, where > would these junior James Bonds be? We supposedly have > a test of a Top Secret device, but here are the pilots > talking in the "clear." Since every radio in the military > now has an encryption device, the incident as discribed is > highly unlikely. Even if they were talking in the > "clear" does it seem logical to refer to something by a > supposedly highly classified name? > It seems that the more unlikely a story, and the more > leaps of faith required, the more ready people are to > believe it. > > A few nights later another show (Discovery Channel?) featured a > > new remote-controlled experimental plane, and it was shown in > > flight, along with it's accompanying chase plane. It was referenced > > as "Project DarkStar. > > I doubt there's a connection, but I'll hunt up what I can. > My question is why bother? > Jan Aldrich I was once one of those guys who was responsible for the encrypting process. Even if every military aircraft has an encrypted radio today, not everyone the aircraft talks too has an encrypted radio. Air traffic control facilities don't have one...and unless you are above controlled air space, you have to talk (in the clear) to air traffic control facilities. I also saw the show referred to on TLC. The contrails he photographed were very unusual. His photograph appeared in US Aeronautics and Space Technology magazine which is a very prestigious magazine. And, "Dark Star" isn't that unusual a call sign. [Loy Pressley]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 Re: 'Autopsy' Film From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Feb 97 21:19:50 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:07:50 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy' Film >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:37:24 +0100 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Horror movie?' When this story by Sam Sherman came out I brought it to Ray's attention. Ray wrote me a letter in which he said very firmly that he had never heard of Sam Sherman or his company prior to me sending the article, and had most certainly never met or had any dealings with him. When Sam was given this information he changed his tune and said the company in Canada that had ripped him off was a company he "thought" was affiliated with Santilli. It turns out there is not, and has never been, any connection between Ray and this company. I've known Sam for years through our mutual interest in buying and selling old cameras, and we get along pretty well. In this case Sam just made an assumption which turned out to be wrong. Anyone who looks at "Brain of Blood" will immediately realize that there is no connection with the AA film. There is nothing even remotely like it in that old film. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' From: Terry Blanton <76016.2701@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Feb 97 20:48:32 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:06:26 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:54:22 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> [snip] >If there _is_ evidence that the sign is indisputably one which could >not possibly have existed in 1947, then, for sure, that's a "no way". [snip] Geese, guys. I assure you that I could have made that sign in 1947. Besides, many ANSI standards are based on military ones, not vice versa. Has it gotten this bad? We need a new controversy! "Give me weed whites and wine and show me a sign . . . " Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Feb 97 21:22:58 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:09:13 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:54:22 -0500 >From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> James, I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I posted this because I honestly wanted feedback and did not want to waste time on this if someone else has already looked into it. The military, I'm told, does not use ANSI standards, so it may be a moot point anyway. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 United Kingdom UFO Network (70) - Part 1 From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:57:45 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:02:58 -0500 Subject: United Kingdom UFO Network (70) - Part 1 ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' February 25th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 70 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {70} Contents: Editorial --------- Radio Documentary alt.binaries.ufo.files United Kingdom News ------------------- [U1] *** SHUTTLE VIDEO *** COMMS INDICATE ANOMOLIES *** [U2] Is this Britains Top Secret 100 million pounds Sterling Plane? [U3] British MoD expert tells why he views some UFOs as E.T. [U4] Judge for yourself [U5] [Milcom] Flying Triangle on the move in the UK also Flying Triangle over the East coast World News ---------- [W1] BUFORA Analyses Israeli 'Dead Alien' Material [W2] Mr Star Trek beams up to be a heavenly body [W3] Mexico report [W4] US Air Force under Web attack [W5] Find adds to strife on Mars [W6] E-mail an alien? Now's your chance [W7] Autopsy Cameraman Interview Transcript Conferences, Skywatches etc. ---------------------------- A week of UFOs - Sheffield The Arthur Bray collection Letters ------- Any UFO groups in Stafford? Editorial --------- From: Nik Rawlinson <nik@nikraw.demon.co.uk> Radio Documentary You may remember a note in issue {67} about some bod who is in the process of making a radio documentary. Well, that was me, and Dave has asked me to write a few lines explaining what I have done, am doing and hope to do. First, maybe it's appropriate to explain my interest in the subject. At around three o'clock one morning, I was driving from Romford to Chelmsford. As you can imagine, there were very few other cars on the road that early in the morning so I was making pretty good time. Anyway, the main road between those two towns is the A12 dual carriageway which, for the most part, is a fairly winding road (for such a major one, anyway). At one point, though, it passes the Brentwood Centre which is a big hall and sports centre where they have concerts and things. At this point the road goes over a small hill and then down in a straight line for about a mile. As I had almost got to the end of this mile of straight road, I came across a road sweeper and so indicated to pull out into the fast lane to overtake it. As usual, I checked my mirrors before pulling out and as the road was dead straight, I could see all the way back to the top of the hill. There was nothing there, but suddenly there was a very bright white light in the rear-view and wing mirrors. I do not remember it being painful on the eyes at all and I seem to recall some sort of up and down stripes on it, almost as though there were thin metal bars in front of the light source itself. At first, I thought I must have pulled out in front of a motorbike, but as it was at about the same height as the top of the back window, that could not have been the case. Also, it was incredibly close. I was travelling at about 70 mph and it was matching my speed just a foot or so behind the car. The next thing I knew I was a couple of miles further down the road and the light was gone. It was not until the next morning, though, that I realised that I had no recollection of how I had travelled those two miles, or how long it had taken (the clock in the car was broken). There are a number of explanations for this including that I misinterpreted something or I just lost my concentration for a few miles (which I am sure all the drivers reading this will have done at some time). However, I do NOT believe I was abducted by aliens or anything like that and, although I firmly believe in the existence of UFOs and extraterrestrial I am sure that there is a perfectly logical, earth- bound explanation for what happened to me. It was late, I was tired, I was probably thinking of all sorts of other things at the time. However, by profession I am a radio presenter and producer and have spent the last five years presenting and producing a wide variety of programmes on a number of different stations around the south east UK. In 1995, I was asked If I would write and present a short series of one hour documentaries on any subject I chose. Inspired by my experience that evening, I chose the subject of UFOs, presented the programme and actually received some positive feedback from the listeners. A couple of months later, I was browsing through the magazines in "The Forbidden Planet" in London and came across a map of the area in which I live. I turned back to the start of the article and saw that it was about a sighting in the area at exactly the same time I was followed by the light. This inspired me to look into the subject a bit further and make this programme. Early editions of the full programme have now been sent to a variety of people who work in broadcasting for the purposes of review and evaluation. Feedback, so far, has been favourable, but as always, there are a few areas where changes will be made. The programme is also accompanied by a 50 page book containing the unedited transcripts of two of the primary interviews conducted in researching the programme and also the script of the programme itself. It is intended that this should be distributed either by post after the programme has been broadcast or displayed on a dedicated web site. Anyway, what I really need now is proof that this is the sort of programme that people would want to listen to, and that is why I am asking for help. If this is the sort of programme that you would be interested in hearing, please email me a short note to ufo@nikraw.demon.co.uk to let me know. These emails would then be submitted as evidence of demand for this type of output. If you would like more details, please don't hesitate to email. Regards Nik --- Our thanks to Ian Read for bringing last months error to notice. The correct name for the recently created newsgroup is: alt.binaries.ufo.files Ian was the creator. So please make use of this if you have any interesting pictures, video clips, sound clips etc etc. United Kingdom News ------------------- [U1]****** UK.UFO.NW would like to extend their sincere thanks to Paul Jones from Euro Scanner for rushing the below information out to the group within the last week. Hi All, I'm forwarding this to the UFO list at the request of Dave, it was on my Radio Listserver. Some interesting goings on in outer space, or so it seems. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 19:28:09 -0800 To: EURO-SCANNER@PEGASUS.CH From: satcom@mail.cybase.co.uk (John Locker) Reply-to: EURO-SCANNER@PEGASUS.CH Subject: SHUTTLE VIDEO >>> COMMS INDICATE ANOMOLIES>> Its Tuesday 0640 gmt..I am watching a live link to Europe of NASA TV....EVA in progress..and astronauts in airlock awaiting further instructions... camera cuts to MCC and voices from shuttle call out.."what was that..two lights out in front of us...yeh I saw them too...thought it was my imagination.."then one of them seems to say "hope you're getting pictures!" The feed then drops out to a test card..and yet...the link should have remained up for another 30 mins...So whats going on... All is on tape...As soon as I get the chance will arrange full transcript..... Part two This is the transcript of my tape... Video shows MCC,little activity..guess they are too busy deciding what to do about the telescope to listen to off air chat.. Crew.."What was that flash?" "That light flashed ???????????????" "I'm ??????????????????you could see it" "I just thought it was my imagination" "I saw it too...there was two of THEM" "There's another one...WHAT *ARE* THEY?" "I just saw the lights flashing in here" "I wonder if THEY'RE(?)taking pictures?" "WHAT IS THAT"..excitedly "(There's )THERE'S THIS THING passed in front of us" "Where are the lights?" "Which ones?" "I missed the ??????????????? for a second,but I had that one the whole time" "Yeh I got that one too!" At this point what may have been the comms controller left his desk and moved to a colleague at the back of MCC to talk to him,the latter leans forward towards the console as if to operate a switch,and the video cuts out! NOTE>>????????????? indicates one or two words I was unable to decipher. Anyone help me with this,,,DID they see something out there..I have been trying to explain to myself all day what they could have been referring to,but apart from light flashing off the telescopes panels.... I find it hard to decide! Regards, John. John Locker G7-MIZ Satellite and Communications Consultant Homepage......http://www.cybase.co.uk/satcom/ Contributor ..What Satellite...ShortWave Magazine..Television..Tellisatellit...Dr Dish TV (Spacenews in English)..Alien Encounters. -- Paul Jones - Monitoring the World from Birmingham, England. Email: paul@termcon.demon.co.uk | paul@termcon.powernet.co.uk WWW: http://www.termcon.demon.co.uk/ EuroScanner Listserver - EURO-SCANNER-request@pegasus.ch SUBSCRIBE EURO-SCANNER [U2]****** From: crow@crowman.demon.co.uk Source: Sunday Mirror newspaper - Page 27 Date: 5th January 1997 IS THIS BRITAINS TOP SECRET 100 million pounds Sterling PLANE? A mysterious triangular-shaped object shoots silently through the winter sky over britain. The remarkable picture, taken by a landscape photographer is being treated by UFO experts as proof that Britain is secretly developing a stealth-type warplane that is light years head of the opposition. "The strange thing was the object whatever it was, made absolutely no sound," said the startled photographer who was taking shots of snow scenes on the Lancashire moors, near the Winter Hill TV Transmitter. He does not want to be named, but he added :"It was a clear, still day and if it was a conventional aircraft I would have heard it." The stealth sci-fi aircraft take their name from their ability to evade enemy radar. Americans used them in the Gulf War to avoid Iraqi air-defence systems. The Lancashire photographer noticed a slight movement in his viewfinder as he snapped snow scenes. He said : "I looked up but there was nothing there. I didn't think anything of it until I got home and developed the film. There, in the centre of the picture was a small silver triangle. At first I thought it might just be a fault on the photo. But when I examined the negative, everything was fine." The photographer passed his remarkable picture onto UFO Experts who claim it is the worlds first picture of a top secret British plane code named HALO (High Altitude, Low Observable.) Its existence is denied by the Government. For as designers discover new methods of making aircraft invisible to enemy radars, so air-defence engineers must develop secret new ways of detecting planes. UFO Expert Mark McAndrew has no doubts. He said : "This is a very important photograph. As far as we are concerned, its proof that the British are developing a Stealth-type aircraft which makes the American version look like an Airfix kit. "In the last few months hundreds of triangle-shaped UFOs have been reported all over the country, especially along the Lancashire coast and in the North West. "Eyewitnesses have told of a silvery triangle-shaped object about 30ft long , with no wings or visible engines. Others have spoken of the object being escorted by two Tornado jets. "The object flies like no other aircraft we have ever heard of. It stops in the sky, hovers, then shoots off at an amazingly high speed." A key feature of Stealth aircraft are triangular surfaces. Radar beams striking the plane are not deflected enough to register on radar screens. Stealth planes also give off little Infra-red energy. Defence sources say that although America was first with Stealth craft, Britain is developing something that will be generations more advanced. It is thought that Stealth planes will be able to fly at 3,000 mph, which would enable them to fly from America to Britain in one hour. Mr McAndrew said he believed the new aircraft was remote controlled and was being developed at the nearby British Aerospace factory at Warton, Lancashire. Details of the HALO project are listed in the respected publication, Janes Military Aircraft. It talks of 100 million Sterling being spent on Stealth aircraft development, and adds "British Aerospace are urging Government go-ahead for Stealth demonstration in 1997. Production aircraft then to be available in 2013 with the International collaboration likely." A Ministry of Defence spokesman yesterday officially denied existence of the HALO project, saying "We don't know of any project by that name." An official at British Aerospace said : "Silver triangle object? Sorry, not one of ours." [U3]****** Source: CNI News -- Vol. 2, No. 19, Part 2 Date: 16th December 1996 CNI News is a twice-monthly electronic newsletter addressing UFO phenomena, claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and related issues, including the cultural and political impacts of contact with other intelligent life. CNI News is edited by Michael Lindemann and distributed by the 2020 Group. Prior to October 1, 1996, CNI News was published under the name ISCNI*Flash. BRITISH MoD EXPERT TELLS WHY HE VIEWS SOME UFOs AS E.T. Nick Pope Says Mystery Craft Often Penetrate UK Defenses [From 1991 until 1994, Nick Pope worked the "UFO desk" at Air Secretariat 2-A, British Ministry of Defense. His job was to assess UFO reports for any possible defense significance. He found that his predecessor had treated all UFO reports as automatically mundane and essentially trivial. But Pope, though not a "believer," decided to do his job as if the true significance of any UFO report was actually unknown until studied. What he learned gradually convinced him that at least some UFOs were most certainly technological objects of unknown origin, potentially of great significance to the defense of Great Britain. In June of 1996, he published a book called "Open Skies, Closed Minds" which described his personal evolution as a UFO investigator and his views on the seriousness of UFO phenomena. CNI News editor Michael Lindemann met with Nick Pope on November 17, 1996, during a UFO conference at Blackpool, England. Pope is 31 years of age, resides in London, and has worked as a civilian in various departments of the Ministry of Defense since 1985. He has not served in the armed forces. Though he left the UFO desk in 1994, he still works for the MoD and now pursues UFO investigations outside his regular job. CNI News thanks Celeste for transcribing the original interview tape.] by Michael Lindemann ML: In general, what does Secretariat Air Staff do? NP: Secretariat Air Staff, a division of about 30 people, acts as an interface between the Royal Air Force and everybody else, like the press, Parliament, and the public. When things happen that you have to, for example, prepare a press line on, we are the people who interface with the military and translate the raw data into a user-friendly description of what happened. And, of course, in doing so, we try to allay people's concerns. ML: How did it happen that you were assigned to the UFO desk? NP: I fell into the job by accident, really. I had been working in another part of Secretariat Air Staff in a job that I didn't particularly like. Then, during the Persian Gulf War, I was working in the Joint Operations Center in the Ministry of Defense Main Building. While I was doing that job, I was working directly for a chap [who] worked in Secretariat Air Staff 2. He had a vacancy coming up and he said, "Look, after the Gulf War is finished, instead of going back to your old job, why don't we do an internal reshuffle, and you can have the UFO job if you want it." So it didn't even go through the Personnel Section. I was never quizzed about my knowledge or beliefs on UFOs. It was simply the fact that he offered me the job, and I felt, Well, why not? ML: Were you enthused about it? NP: Part of me, if I'm being honest, was just so keen to get out of the old job that I would have jumped at anything. But, of course, I won't say that I wasn't a little bit intrigued to know why the Ministry of Defense was looking at UFOs. ML: How would you characterize your previous interest or attitude toward UFOs? NP: I would say that it wasn't so much a question of being skeptical; I just didn't know anything about it and had never really thought about it. In my entire life, as far as I can recollect, I had never read a complete book on UFOs. ML: When you came to this job, to whom did you report, and what were you supposed to accomplish? NP: The chain of command is quite complicated. Being a division which worked very closely with the military, there was a dual chain of command, so you would report up the political chain to somebody called Assistant Undersecretary Commitments, and ultimately up to Defense Ministers, the Secretary of State for Defense. And then we were partly accountable on the military chain, too, to the Assistant Chief of the Air Staff and then the Chief of the Air Staff. But that's typical at Ministry of Defense. As to what we were supposed to do, the brief, in a nutshell, was to evaluate the UFO reports that came to us, to [see] whether there was a threat of any sort to the defense of the UK. Now, the party line was that unless there was evidence of any threat, that's where our involvement ended, and it wasn't then our job to go on and actually investigate each and every report. I took the view that you couldn't say there was no threat until you knew what these objects were that were being reported. So that gave me the hook upon which to hang my investigations. I inherited a situation where people were really doing little more than sending out letters. "Dear Mr. Smith, what you saw was probably aircraft lights, it's nothing to worry about. Thanks for writing. Goodbye." I didn't think that was really good enough. I started off playing by those rules. But in the course of my three years, from 1991 to 1994, gradually my views began to evolve. As I got more and more reports, I became gradually convinced that there was more to this than just aircraft lights. ML: Can you point to any event, or sequence of events, that caused you to decide there was really something important here? NP: I think the moment where I really felt, "Okay, this is it, I'm not playing any more," was a wave of sightings that occurred on the 30th and 31st of March, 1993. We had several hundred reports that came our way. Many of the witnesses were police. A lot of police in the southwest of the country, in Devon and Cornwall, saw something. Now, as with all of these big waves of sightings, quite a lot of the reports were fairly mundane, lights in the sky. But even so, it was quite late at night -- most of these reports were between, say, 1:00 and 1:30 in the morning -- and because there were police officers on night patrol, you're dealing with more than average recognition training, and people used to being out and about, and used to seeing lights and other things in the sky. Repeatedly, I heard the phrase, "This was like nothing I'd ever seen before in my life." People were genuinely quite spooked by this. What was generally reported was two lights, flying in a perfect formation, with a third, much fainter light -- our old friend the flying triangle, really. The lights were described as being in a triangle formation. It's difficult to say, of course. It's quite possible they could have been three separate things flying in formation, but the impression from talking to witnesses was that this was a triangular craft with lights mounted on the underside, at the edges. The most interesting reports, of course, were the ones which occurred at close distance. There was a family in Staffordshire who apparently saw this thing so low -- and they described it as either triangular or diamond shaped -- that they leapt into their car and tried to chase it. They didn't succeed, although at one point they thought it was so low that it had actually come down in a field. It wasn't there when they got to it. They described a low, humming sound, a very low-frequency sound. They said you didn't just hear this sound, you felt it, like standing in front of a bass speaker. The really intriguing thing was that this object, whatever it was, then proceeded to fly over two military bases. It was seen by the guard patrol at RAF Cosford, about three or four people, [who] made an instant report of this, obviously because it had flown over their base. They checked radar. There was nothing on the screens, nothing at all, and there was nothing scheduled to fly. No military or civil aircraft should have been airborne in that area at all. They phoned the nearby base at RAF Shawbury, about 12 miles away from Cosford. The meteorological officer there took the call. He was a man with about eight years experience of looking into the night sky and then doing the weather report for the next day. So he knew his way around objects and phenomena. Now, to his absolute amazement, he saw a light in the distance, coming closer and closer. That light eventually resolved itself into a solid structured craft that he saw again flying directly over the base, but at much closer proximity than the guard patrol at Cosford had seen it. He estimated that the height of the object was no more than 200 feet. Its size, he said, was midway between a C-130 Hercules transport aircraft and a Boeing 747. He heard the low hum, too. He had not spoken to any other witnesses, except the Cosford people, who I don't think had reported the sound. He reported this low-frequency hum. Perhaps most disturbingly of all, he reported this thing throwing a beam of light down at the nearby countryside and fields just beyond the perimeter fence at the base. And this light was tracking backwards and forwards, he said to me, "as if it was looking for something." The beam of light then retracted, and the craft moved off. It was traveling very slowly, I should say, probably no more than 20 or 30 mph. Then it gained a little bit of height, and then it just shot off to the horizon in little more than a second. Needless to say, that was a description I had come across many times in other UFO reports, the virtual hover to the high-Mach accelerations in an instant. I launched a full investigation. I made all the usual checks, trying to track down aircraft movement, satellite activity, airships, weather balloons, meteorites, etc., etc. I drew a blank -- with one exception -- and then put a report up the chain of command. The exception was a ballistic missile early warning sensor at RAF Fylingdales, in North Yorkshire. It is estimated that at some stage in the night there had been a rocket reentry of, I think, Cosmos 2238, which might have caused a very brief firework display in the high atmosphere. It's just possible that some of the vague lights-in-the-sky sightings might have been explained in that way, although Fylingdales didn't seem very sure on whether [the satellite re-entry] was actually going to be visible from the UK at all. But, clearly, it wouldn't explain the sighting of the family in Staffordshire and, most importantly of all, the direct overflight of the military bases, particularly the meteorological officer's report. He had obviously seen a structured craft. This to me really [refuted] any idea that these things are of no defense significance. You had a craft which, whatever it was, had penetrated our defense region. It wasn't on our radar, and we hadn't got our air defense fighters out. So whether it was extraterrestrial or not, there was something which we all should have been very concerned about. The debate got bogged down in the search for Aurora, the alleged hypersonic replacement to the SR-71 Blackbird. We were chasing our tails trying to find out whether there was such a thing. We were asking the Americans, "Are you operating a prototype aircraft in our airspace?" That, of course, was nonsense. You simply would not do that from a diplomatic and political point of view. It would undermine the entire structure of NATO if you were putting things through someone else's airspace, particularly a close ally, without seeking the proper diplomatic clearance. But we had to ask. And the Americans, having had similar reports, I guess, since the Hudson Valley wave [New York state, mid-1980s], had been quietly asking us if we had some large, triangular shaped object that could go from 0 to Mach 5 in a second. Our response was that we wished we did. This was the bizarre situation: that we were chasing the Americans, and the Americans were chasing us. Meanwhile, I suspected a third party was having a laugh! ML: You ran this up the chain of command, and you went through all the necessary procedures. Did you, in the end, hit a blank wall? Was there any follow-through, any aftermath to this, any inkling that policy was in motion over this? NP: I put a report up the chain of command, and it ended up on the desk of the Assistant Chief of the Air Staff, who is an Air Vice Marshall. The report ended up on his desk, but to be fair, I had made pretty much all of the checks that could possibly be made, so while he was undoubtedly interested in it, he could say little more than, "Well, this is interesting, good investigation, well done, but there is nothing further we can do." I do have some sympathy because, of course, so much of ufology is a study of something that isn't there anymore. So the critics would say that he should have done more, but I'm not sure that there is that much more that he could do. I think the report did change attitudes, albeit in a very subtle and gradual way. It made people in the chain of command think. It was the first time I could recall a UFO report ending up on the desk of the Assistant Chief of the Air Staff, to look at it from a defense and national security viewpoint. Maybe it got him thinking. Certainly when I socialized with my RAF colleagues, I would find that they were a little bit more receptive to the idea of UFOs -- and by that I mean perhaps even an extraterrestrial explanation for this -- than you might have supposed. One of the reasons for that was that so many RAF pilots had actually seen things themselves. Many of them have never made an official report. I had one chap tell me that he had seen something over the North Sea. I asked him why he hadn't reported it, and he said, "I don't want to be known as Flying Saucer Fred for the rest of my career." But there were some reports occasionally made up the military chain of command. On the fifth of November 1990, a flight of Tornado aircraft were returning to the UK across the North Sea when they were overtaken at high speed by a UFO. They reported it. They speculated that it might be a Stealth, but my impression was that they were only saying that because it was the only thing they knew how to say. But this was really interesting, because you had pretty much the best jet in the RAF just made to look totally ineffective by being overtaken and left standing by this object, whatever it was. Now, questions have been asked in our Parliament about this very recently, in the Autumn of 1996. The official line from the Ministry of Defense is, "Yes, this happened. No, we don't know what it is, but we say that it is of no defense significance." How can it possibly be of no defense significance when your best jet is left for standing by a UFO? And, again, how can it be of no defense significance when your air defense region is routinely penetrated by structured craft? ML: This seemingly irrational denial of significant UFO events could be interpreted as evidence of a deliberate cover-up. What are your views on that? NP: I found no evidence to support a cover-up in Britain. I think, without trying to sound too arrogant, that I would have gotten a few hints in three years if there had been someone doing my job but on a covert basis, not least because the one thing they would have needed beyond anything else was access to the raw data of the witnesses, and never once in three years had any witness complained that I had sent someone around to the house. ML: How about your view on cover-ups, say, among the Americans? Any sense of that? NP: That was a little more complicated. The one thing that I tried to do very quickly in my tour of duty was to establish contact with an American opposite member, because I thought it was sensible to tap into the expertise which I was sure must exist there, and to exchange data, given that Britain and America work very closely on all sorts of other defense issues. I made extensive inquiries both through the American Embassy in London and through the British Embassy in Washington, but I drew a complete blank. I couldn't find anyone who claimed to be investigating UFOs for the [U.S.] government. I was told, "No, since Project Blue Book was closed down in 1969 we just have not done it anymore." Now, I found that bizarre and, I would have to say, a bit at odds with authenticated Freedom of Information documents, which seem to suggest that various agencies in America have been up to their eyeballs in UFO research. But, for whatever reason, I simply couldn't get access. And it was my perception that -- I have to be careful what I say of my close allies and friends, of course -- certainly the full story was not being told, and the true nature of involvement and the true situation had not really been made public in the States. But in Britain, I do think that if anything has been covered up about UFOs corporately, it's just how little we know; there's a coverup of ignorance and prejudice. Time and again when you would brief people, they would repeatedly say, "Of course, I don't believe in UFOs." You'd be talking about a structured craft of unknown origin -- you'd be talking, say, about a near miss between a UFO and a civil airliner -- but the moment you use the word "UFO," people just switched off. They didn't want to know. You were dealing with someone's belief system and, you know, the language is incredibly biased. So if you talk about unauthorized penetration of the UK air defense region, people will listen. But if you talk about a UFO, they won't, although you had just been talking about the same thing, using different language. It's a question of mindset, as well. The Ballistic Early Warning Center at Fylingdales was saying that they frequently got fireballs on their screens, and they say that they flash across at speeds of several thousand miles an hour. And the question was put to them, "How do you know that they are fireballs?" And they said, "Well, because they go very fast." Now, that is the view that I was up against, and that is the paradigm you have to challenge if you want anyone to take this seriously. ML: Lately in Great Britain there have been a number of serious UFO incidents. One apparently occurred in the region called the Wash near Skegness on October 5 [see CNI News 2.15 of October 16, 1996], involving many military and police witnesses. What update can you give on that? NP: The incident on the Wash was fascinating because there were sightings reported by the police at Skegness, and various other witnesses, including the crew of a civil oil tanker. People were seeing green and red lights in the sky. Now at first sight that might have indicated some sort of aircraft activity, but this was pretty much staying in the same place, and it continued to stay there for some hours. Simultaneously, this was picked up on several different radar systems, both military and civil. The most bizarre thing about this is that jets were not scrambled. This to me seems quite extraordinary: that you can have a visual sighting of a UFO, which has clearly penetrated our air defenses, whatever it is, coupled with this thing showing up on several different radar screens, yet our air defense aircraft sit there quite casually on the ground. Now, that poses the question, "Why?" And it is my understanding that a member of Parliament here has raised that very question with Secretary of State for Defense, [asking], "What is the standard practice about scrambling jets? What has to happen before our air defense aircraft get off the ground here?" The incident remains unexplained, but clearly raises some serious questions about the way in which we police our air defense region. ML: Now that you're well away from the UFO desk at Ministry of Defense, are you continuing to pursue your research? What are you working on now? NP: At the moment, I'm working on the abduction mystery. I'm writing a book which is to be called "The Uninvited." In Britain it's scheduled for June 1997, published by Simon and Schuster. It attempts to be an overview of the abduction phenomenon, with part two of the book being a series of cases that people won't have come across before, with various abductees telling their own stories, with a minimum of spin from me. So that's taking up all of my time at the moment. But I continue my research into UFOs and abductions on a private basis. I was touched by this subject when I was doing it officially, and like many who are touched by it, you find that you simply can't walk away from it. ML: Undoubtedly you are aware of nay-sayers who respond to all these claims of UFOs with a variety of theories ranging from "honest mistakes" to various forms of psychopathology, hoaxes, and so forth. For yourself, coming out of the Ministry of Defense environment, and having had some experience with a fairly hard edge of the phenomenon, how do you respond to those types of remarks? NP: Many skeptics raise entirely valid points, and my official research and investigation certainly [supported] the fact that nine out of ten UFOs have conventional explanations. They are either misidentifications, or some sort of psychological or psychopathological explanation, or simply somebody making it up because they're fantasy-prone. [But] that to me does not explain the whole story. It seems to me there is a technology on display which goes beyond the cutting edge of our own. People talk about prototype aircraft, but in my experience you simply don't fly those over populated areas where they can be photographed and put on the front page of the next morning's newspaper. If that's your best bit of hardware, you just don't risk it like that. And you don't fly into other people's air space without diplomatic clearance, either. I concentrate on the science. I'm interested in the UFOs seen by the police and military witnesses. I'm interested in the near misses that pilots report, where their aircraft nearly collide with these things. I'm interested in the visual sightings backed up by radar. I'm interested in the military bases that are overflown by these things. I'm interested in the cases where you have radiation readings on the ground. These are no lights in the sky. These are not misidentifications or fantasy prone individuals. This is a cutting-edge technology being reported by reliable, trained observers, and it is something that goes beyond what we can do. That to me suggests that if it is not ours, it belongs to someone else. If that technology is better than ours, then the extraterrestrial hypothesis seems to me the best explanation. LIKE CNI News? If so, please tell others to request delivery of two free issues so they can find out how much they like it too. There's no obligation. Send all trial subscription requests to CNINews1@aol.com with the message "Try News." READY TO SUBSCRIBE? If you've received one or more trial issues of CNI News and are ready to subscribe, here's how. Choose six months (12 issues) for $12, or twelve months (24 issues) for $24. Make your check or money order (sorry, no credit cards) payable to CNI News and mail to: CNI News, 3463 State St. #264, Santa Barbara, CA 93105 USA. VERY IMPORTANT: include your full name AND your email address with your check. Thanks for your interest and support! SEEN OUR WEB SITE? If not, be sure to visit soon at www.cninews.com/ While there, check out our unique "Search CNI News" feature, the only keyword searchable UFO news archive in cyberspace. -[continued in part 2]-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 United Kingdom UFO Network (70) - Part 2 From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:58:09 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:04:41 -0500 Subject: United Kingdom UFO Network (70) - Part 2 ______ _______ ____ ------ / / // ____// |---------------------------------------------- U K / / // ___/ / / ' February 25th, 1997 / / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 2 Issue 70 --- (_____//__/ -- (_____/------------------------------------------------ This issue comes in 2 parts. If any part is missing please mail: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject section e.g. Repost {70} [U4]****** From: RUSHEYMEAD@aol.com Date: Thursday 26th Decemner 1996 Judge for your self. Hi, I don't know how much of the following is correct, but I'll tell you as best I can the way it was told to me. I was talking to a friend of a friend Saturday before Christmas who is has something to do with the RAF (A Reserve?). Any way I was talking to him about the RAF and saying that they wouldn't let me in because of the medical and also my interests in UFO, he replied that the RAF doesn't care if you are interested in the subject. We carried on talking and he told me that he was down in Devon on manoeuvres or something and there was a large Triangular object flying around. I brought up the subject about the Aurora, he was telling me that some of the people around the base had seen something that could have been the Aurora, he also told me about a triangular craft that has landed on the bases which happened to be a troop carrier (sci-fi? he seemed genuine). He also told me about a time he went to Stoughton Airfield (out side of Oadby in Leicestershire, in his own car, just to be nosy as he heard that there was supposed to be an underground base/complex underneath it) and was escorted of by an Army Land Rover (the air field is next to a Marconi installation). This seemed to be a load of cobblers as I used to work there at one point, and I never saw an Army Land Rover or any thing to do with the forces (Mind you I was there in 1987, things could have changed). He also told me that he had times and dates that UFOs have appeared on Radar, I'm still working on him to try and get this information. There was also many other things he told me, things about a RAF base that the US are using, that has an underground complex under it, also about a underground base in Scotland that has developed a Laser that can be mounted on to any vehicle and can slice a tank in half. (He wouldn't tell me were the base was) Also about the Aurora, saying how it worked, something to do with sonic or some kind of explosion it sets of in front of it which it uses to pull the craft along with, also the new Euro Fighter is just a cover for the test flights of other craft. The Euro Fighter has supposed to have 2 Tornado engines in it and the fly-by wire controls doesn't work. I don't know if any of this has been printed any where any magazines or books etc. But it would be interesting to find out, so I can continue to listen to what he has to say or just to find out if he is a time waster. And from what I'm told by my mate that this bloke doesn't drink and he 100% all there. If you could reply to F.A.O Craig E-mail = rusheymead@aol.com [U5]****** Thanks to Paul Jones of Euroscanner for bringing this to our attention. From: satcom@cyserv1.cybase.co.uk (John Locker) To Mailing list: milcom@grove.net Date: Wednesday 12th February 1997 [MILCOM] FLYING TRIANGLE ON THE MOVE IN THE UK LARRY, HOPE YOU DONT MIND, BUT THIS ONE IS FOR MILCOM READERS IN THE UK.....WE HAVE OUR OWN AREA 51 HERE!..I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO HEAR FROM ANYONE STATESIDE THOUGH IF THE SIGHTING SOUNDS FAMILIAR .... ! The illusive Flying Triangle is on the move! The last few months have seen it active in the North West, however, today we have a report from overhead Mablethorpe, Lincs.. Time 1456 gmt...altitude 200ft,..flying between 2 tornados in swept configuration, heading East, out to sea. I believe the craft were on their way to the North Sea playground. If I am right, the triangle, span approx 30 ft...is unmanned, and flown from the backseat of a tornado using virtual cockpit facilities via a live microwave link. I cant believe that someone out there in Milcom land did not see this incident,..so come on chaps, lets tie this one down and get to the bottom of the issue...what the hell is going on here...Bae deny all knowledge of the craft...it has been seen many times in the Warton area, and its escorts have been heard talking to ATC. How is it powered ?..it is silent, flat in profile...but seems to be able to carry out max rate turns without effort. We have some of the best aviation enthusiasts on this list, so come on...give me some answers! Gosh..that was a bit emotive wasn't it...but seriously....have you seen it? Lets see if we can get some hard info together. regards, John Locker G7-MIZ Satellite and Communications Consultant Homepage......http://www.cybase.co.uk/satcom/ Contributor ..What Satellite...ShortWave Magazine..Television..Tellisatellit...Dr Dish TV (Spacenews in English)..Alien Encounters. A further mail from John....... From: satcom@mail.cybase.co.uk (John Locker) To Mailing List: EURO-SCANNER@PEGASUS.CH Date: Friday 14th February 1997 FLYING TRIANGLE OVER THE EAST COAST Some time ago you may recall that I circulated details of a triangular craft flying over the North West of England. Sighting reports have been frequent in the area between Liverpool and West Freugh... My findings are as follows... This is an unmanned triangular craft, unmanned, about 30-50 foot span...a UAV. Very often it is seen in the company of two Tornados, as in the latest sighting, just 2 days ago at 1458 over Mablethorpe. If I am correct the craft is flown from the rear cockpit of one of the Tornados using a virtual cockpit setup, and microwave video link. Powerplant is difficult...witnesses describe a humming sound , possibly created by an electro-magnteic field, however in such close proximity to other a/c I doubt this is the case....the motor is certainly not conventional. The sighting over Mablethorpe is important as I think the 3 a/c may have been heading for the ACMI...so if any of you out there have the ACMI in "range" it may be worth listening in to the special tasks cells for any unusual activity. Officials say this craft does not exist...in fact...they seem quite happy for the rumours of UFOs to go from strength to strength! The ACMI playground frequencies are listed in the usual publications.....I would be interested to hear from anyone who gets a visual on the triangle. World News ---------- [W1]****** UK.UFO.NW would like to thank Mike Wootten of BURFORA for sending us the below report. From: Mike Wootten <ej77@dial.pipex.com> Organization: Brtish UFO Research Association (BUFORA) Date sent: Sunday 2nd February 1997 BUFORA Analyses Israeli 'Dead Alien' Material report by Mike Wootten Director of Publications, British UFO Research Association In the midst of intense international controversy, the British UFO Research Association has released its findings after an in-depth investigation of three samples alleged to be taken from a dead alien discovered in Israel. Background On 21st December 1996, after many reports of UFO sightings in the Galilee farming village of Achihod, an 'alien' which allegedly fell from a 'craft' was captured by a local kibbutz resident, Tziona Damti. The creature was described as being 5cm in length with human features, four limbs, no fingers and surrounded in a slimy material. It was further alleged that the creature was still alive on discovery but later died. Tziona Damti called the police. Two officers arrived to investigate. It was claimed that when one police officer bent down to put the "alien" in a bucket, it jumped on his back. Officer Asher Ben Ezra told the press that the volume of bodily fluids left on the ground by the creature was abnormal and which led him to believe that there was something suspicious about it. On hearing this news, psychic, Uri Geller, offered the family $1,000,000 to purchase the creature to add to his vast collection of curiosities. The Israeli media took great interest in the story and the Damti family along with local UFO researchers were certain that they had found something of great scientific and financial value. It was later claimed that the creature had been analysed by Israeli scientists who found that the creature was 'not of this world'. However, these claims have not been backed up with a report or an author of the comments. Other researchers and Israeli journalists speculated that the find was an aborted salamander foetus. BUFORA's Involvement Whilst the controversy raged, BUFORA was surprisingly contacted on 15th January by Israeli UFO researcher, Debby Segal, who along with Uriya Shai, were representing the Damti family. Debby requested that BUFORA analyse three samples taken from the creature that she was bringing over to the UK. BUFORA agreed and commissioned a noted private lab to conduct the analysis. The Analysis The lab took delivery of the samples on 16th January and completed the work on 29th January. BUFORA had asked for an initial study to ascertain whether the samples supplied could be of extraterrestrial origin and whether further work would be justified. It was agreed that the carbon and nitrogen signatures of the samples should be examined to see whether there was a marked difference from the signatures that all terrestrial life would produce. Each sample was analysed three times (enough for the results to be legally admissible in a UK court). The very latest, British designed, mass spectrometer equipment was used to conduct the analysis The Results The nine conducted tests showed that each signature fell well within terrestrial limits. Not included in the report is the assertion by the lab technicians that the signatures come very close to those expected from lizards and frogs. [Lab report follows] LC2 Ltd. (Analytical Laboratories) CERTIFICATE OF ANALYSIS Certificate Number : LC97-006 Project Description: Analysis of Biological samples for Delta C13 values and N15 values by Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry Submitted: By Debbie Segal Date received: 16th January 1996 Your Reference: Analysis and report commissioned by BUFORA Ltd. on behalf of Debbie Segal Our Reference: LC97-006 Date of report: 30th January 1997 Project Summary Three samples were received into the laboratory for analysis. The samples were placed into a liquid Nitrogen container for storage purposes and to minimise any possibility of cross contamination of sample integrity. Each sample was carefully removed from the liquid Nitrogen container and a small portion of each was removed for Isotope analysis and placed into a sterile pre-cleaned vial of EPA quality. Each sample was then subjected to Isotope analysis using a Micromass EA Isotope ratio mass spectrometer with both Carbon and Nitrogen measurement capability. Each sample was run in triplicate to establish good statistics for both the Carbon and Nitrogen components of the samples. Project Results Sample ID Delta C13 value Nitrogen Value LC23741 -24.25 4.2 (Brown Container) LC23742 -24 12 4.3 (White Container) LC23743 -24.35 4.2 (Black Container) Typical Values for Terrestrial -15 to -30 0 to 14 Samples (depending upon diet) These values fall directly in the middle of expected values for terrestrially derived Carbon and Nitrogen and therefore we submit that these samples are of terrestrial origin and not extra terrestrial origin as originally anticipated. For the attention of: Debbie Segal, Simat Ben Shabat, Shmuel No. 56b, Neve Yosef, Haifa, Israel Signed on behalf of LC2 Analytical Laboratories: Keith Hall Director ------------------------------------------------------------------ This is the first time that a British UFO research group has had the opportunity to examine samples that are alleged to be of an alien origin and it is the first time in nearly 20 years that the study of any UFO related material has been objectively analysed in the UK (Livingston Case). Geller, who was immediately informed of the results by BUFORA is said to be very disappointed with the Associations findings. So too are the Damti family along with their supporting UFO researchers. Conclusion BUFORA is not disappointed with the results. We are an objective research organisation who approach the subject with an open mind. We work to ascertain facts and although we have a negative result, we have done what we set out to do and establish facts. However, to many this may not be the end of the story. Despite, submitted expert and impartial opinion, there will be those who will argue that what we have presented proves nothing. It may be said that it is possible that an alien life-form may have the same carbon and nitrogen signatures as us. But the same argument may be posed if we had discovered that the samples had similar cell structures or indeed DNA. Indeed if we follow the popularist theory that we are all born from an alien origin then we would never be able to prove or disprove anything in this case irrespective of what analysis or expert opinion we sort. This is a circular argument that dogs the subject time and again. In the cold light of day, BUFORA is satisfied that this careful and precise analysis shows that what was discovered in Israel last December does have a terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial heritage. We are however, open to further discussion and are also willing to undertake further objective analysis of the samples. We are now unfortunately unable to finance any further work. Mike Wootten 1st February 1997 mwootten@dial.pipex.com http://www.bufora.org.uk [W2]****** Source: The Express newspaper Date: Tuesday 11th February 1997 Mr Star Trek beams up to be a heavenly body Foreign Service Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry and LSD guru Timothy Leary are blazing new trails in death as they did in life. The pair's ashes are being blasted into space next month. Their remains were flown from America to Torrejon air base in Madrid, Spain, on Sunday so they can be beamed up over the Canary Islands. Ashes of 22 others - including a rocket scientist and a four-year-old-boy will also be shot into space. The voyage across the final frontier is especially fitting for Roddenberry, who died aged 70 in 1991. His TV space series sought to take viewers "where no man has gone before". "Who better deserves to go into space?" asked his wife Majel. Leary, who preferred to get spaced out on drug trips, decided on his bizarre exit just before he died lat year, aged 75. He was so excited by the idea he "jumped up and down in his wheelchair", his friend Carol Rosin said. Families of the dead each paid more than 1,800 pounds Sterling to send their loved ones into orbit in a rocket launching a commercial satellite. The ashes have been packed in lipstick-size capsules which will remain in orbit from 18 months to 10 years before re-entering Earth's atmosphere and burning up like shooting stars. [W3]****** From: Beyond Boundaries <jmurphy@Onramp.NET> Date: Friday 6th December 1996 Mexico Report We just returned from our Mexico expedition with great news to share. While we were with a local Mexican UFO research group nightwatching at a location near the foot of Mt. Popocatepetl we were able to film a huge UFO. The television show, Strange Universe, was on location with us and had the video footage analyzed by several US photography labs. Results were that the object was not a plane, not a satellite, not a meteorite, not.....everything else that could be identified, was a very far away dogbone shaped craft with a definitive shape. What made this sighting really interesting to us here at Beyond Boundaries was that just that afternoon we had interviewed a 16 year old abductee and her lawyer father who have regular experiences with the little aliens walking through their beautiful home. The abductee had told us that at this particular time on this evening her alien friends would come to that location to say hello to us. She was standing on the site with us at the time they appeared! After returning back to our offices and hearing the definitive shape and actual description of the craft from the film analyst we pulled some letters from our Puerto Rico files written by our hybrid subject there in which she gave the same description of a rod shaped craft with glowing bulbs at each end sketched in three of her letters - She has seen them on the ground near her home in Cabo Rojo many times. We are going back to Puerto Rico in February to continue research on multi-dimensional phenomena, alien healings, the chupacabras, as well as to find other contactees and witnesses of the dogbone craft. For information on joining our research organization e-mail: jmurphy@onramp.net Check out our website: http://rampages.onramp.net/~jmurphy Joyce from Beyond Boundaries reporting BEYOND BOUNDARIES - Research and Expeditions Worldwide PO BOX 250 RAINBOW TX 76077 [W4]****** Source: Computing Date: January 9, 1997 By Stuart Lauchlan VNU Newswire US Desk US AIR FORCE UNDER WEB ATTACK The US Air Force became the latest victim of a series of hacking attacks on government computers last week. Its home page was covered in obscenities and bizarre allegations of alien landings. The site, maintained by the US Defense Technical Information Center, was hacked into over the Christmas weekend. It was altered to include dripping blood and pornographic scenes, as well as links to X-Files-style exposes of a government cover-up of alien landings. When the incursion was detected on Sunday 29 December, Air Force authorities ordered a suspension of 80 other military Web sites, although a spokesman later insisted that the hackers only had access to one Defense department PC. But a man who claims to have been involved in the attack contacted the media to insist hackers had access to the entire Air Force email system, including classified documents. "The security on government systems is simply pathetic," he said. "A foreign government could go through that security in a few minutes." Captain Terry Bowman, chief of the Air Force public affairs technology integration team, issued a statement after the incident in which he said: "We continually review our security procedures to maintain the integrity of information on our site." This is the latest in a series of incidents. In October, hackers rewrote the CIA home page, while the Justice Department's site was attacked in August. [W5]****** Source: The Electronic Telegraph Date: Thursday, December 19, 1996 By Robert Uhlig, Technology Correspondent FIND ADDS TO STRIFE ON MARS THE existence of life on Mars has been thrown into further doubt after scientists found that two of the four lines of indirect evidence supporting the meteorite finding can be explained by non-biological processes. When Nasa announced it suspected early extra-terrestrial microbial life on Martian meteorite ALH 84001, it based its claims on the fact that four compounds found inside the meteorite could be produced only by living organisms. Most damaging of all to supporters of the Martian life theory is the suggestion by geoscientists in America that magnetite crystals inside the meteorite, assumed to be the product of bacteria, were not produced by a biogenic process. "The biological explanation is becoming less and less plausible," said John Kerridge, a planetary scientist at the University of California at San Diego, who is familiar with the studies published or about to be published in the journal Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. San Diego scientists also found organic molecules called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in Antarctic ice were the same as those inside the meteorite's globules. They were also found in other meteorites that did not come from Mars. [W6]****** Source: The Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com) Date: January 10, 1997 E-MAIL AN ALIEN? NOW'S YOUR CHANCE (Reuter) PARIS - Earthlings will get a chance to send messages to space aliens this year on a rocket bound for Saturn's biggest moon, the European Space Agency (ESA) said Thursday. ESA said it would collect electronic signatures and messages and pack them onto a computer disc aboard the Huygens probe scheduled to blast off on Oct. 6 for a seven-year voyage to Titan. "ESA is planning to fly a CD-ROM aboard Huygens," the agency said in a statement. The Huygens probe will be released over the barren Titan, the largest moon of the ringed planet, to "examine its environment and surface," ESA said. Huygens is to be launched atop a Titan rocket by NASA from Cape Canaveral in Florida along with NASA's Cassini probe. Cassini is scheduled to orbit Saturn for about four years from 2004, sending back data and pictures. ESA said the signatures and messages will be collected on a special site on the Internet computer network, "http:/www.huygens.com." They will be accepted until March 1, 1997. [W7]****** From: crow@crowman.demon.co.uk Source: UFO UpDates - Toronto updates@globalserve.net From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net> Autopsy Cameraman Interview Transcript (Ray Satntilli's alien autopsy film footage) Below are the alleged cameraman's answers to the questions (in Japanese, which are not provided) taken from a Japanese television documentary. Start: Ready? Okay. I have some notes, and on these notes I have answers to precise questions. My son is here to help me with this interview. You will excuse me, this is the first time I have been in front of a camera and I am a little nervous. And, I will use my glasses, and I have prepared a statement before we go on with the interview. I am the person who shot the film. I will not tell you my name, but I want you to know that I am not happy that I have betrayed my country. Our United States of America is the greatest country in the world, and I am proud to be an American. I do not want that to change. Question #1: It wasn't my decision to become a cameraman in the military. They found out that cameras were something I understand and do best. And that's why I was given the job. Question #2: Yes, I remember that I got a call from McDonald telling me to report to General McMullen. When I got to McMullen, I was told that a plane went down just outside Soccoro, New Mexico. A flight was being laid down to go down there and I was to be on it. I was told to film the crash site and stay with the team till they left. Question #3: There were injured creatures lying around, obviously in pain. The men at the site were scared. There was a great deal of confusion, there certainly was. My authority allowed me to operate independent as long as I didn't interfere with anyone. When I arrived, I set up my tent and once I had lights, I began. How did I feet about it? I was concerned about potential contamination, but I had no choice. Question #4: Even if I could remember, I wouldn't give you names! Yes, there were scientists, military brass, and medical experts, even Truman's team went down there...(pause) it was the full works. Question #5: We were told nothing and ordered not to discuss what we had seen. We all knew it wasn't a spy plane or any other type of plane we had seen before. No one knew how it crashed or where it came from. Question #6: The creatures kept crying out and the men were scared, but they were trained and ordered to go in and treated it like a war situation. Their first job was to recover the objects the freaks were holding just in case they were weapons of some kind. I filmed the assault on the freaks to get these objects. It turned out they were not weapons, but control units of some kind. The freaks didn't want to let them go, but they didn't stand a chance, we got them. Once the units were secured, the freaks were removed. Question #7: I kept all the film with me, went back to the base to process. Question #8: What do you think I am? I can't give names. Question #9: The protective suits made my job very difficult. Also the air feeds into the feet on those things and the surgeons were always getting in the way, but I expected that. Question #10: Most of the processing took place around August, by the time the military, as we knew it, ceased to be. The Air Force and the Army were about to split and my group was about to be dismantled for a time anyway (laughs out loud). In fact, you could say 1 was in a strange position at the time of not belonging to either one service. And eventually they found a home for us. Question #11: I took all the film because I had no one to report to. My orders were not to discuss the situation with anyone unless they brought up the subject first. The first batch had been delivered. the department folded and I had no one to deliver to. I tried to contact McMullen, but I couldn't get through. In the end I couldn't leave it laying around, so I took it home which is where it stayed. Question #12: Frankly, I wish I had never sold the film. He came back to me until I sold him the film. I sold the film because I needed money. I'm not proud of it. Santilli took about 25 rolls. That's it. I'm going to bed. No more questions. Turn it off. No more questions. UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0145 An E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related Phenomena UFO UpDates Instant Archive now available at http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates MUFON Ontario's Home Page: http://auraland.com/mufon/index.htm Conferences, Skywatches etc. ---------------------------- From: Mick Ibbotson <miki@globalnet.co.uk> Source: Sheffield Star newspaper Date: Tuesday 4th February 1997 A Week Of UFOs The truth is out there for UFO buffs planning a week of events o mark the approach of the comet. Members of Sheffield UFO Research Association are planning a 'UFO week' beginning March 31st which will include skywatches, displays and a conference. They will be gathering at Redmires to watch for ETs and the spectacular Hale-Bopp comet which makes a close approach to Earth on March 29th. But more down to earth enthusiasts will be entertained with a special visual display at Rotherham library, followed by a conference at a venue in Sheffield. Phone the UFO hotline on Sheffield (0114) 275 6144 for more details. --- From: Victor Lourenco <lourenco@interlog.com> Date: Saturday 1st February 1997 The Arthur Bray Collection Hi All, You might be interested to know that recently the Library Network of the University of Ottawa in Canada acquired a donation of material from Arthur Bray, a respected UFO investigator and researcher. The Arthur Bray Collection is housed in the Archives and Special Collections department of the Morisset Library. The collection is comprised of print and non-print material collected by Mr. Arthur Bray and includes the papers of the late Wilbert B. Smith. These collections consist of artifacts, clippings, correspondence with individuals and groups, government reports, monographs, manuscript material, periodicals, photographs and slides all relating to Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs). There is a finding aid for on-site consultation of this collection. Public hours to Archives and Special Collections, Morisset Library, University of Ottawa are Monday to Friday from 12:30 to 4:00 p.m. If you require further information about The Arthur Bray Collection please call (613) 562-5910 or visit the Home Page at: http://www.uottawa.ca/library/archives.html Victor Lourenco MUFON Provincial Director-Ontario Requests for information ------------------------ From: david donelan <bs5eidd@bs41.staffs.ac.uk> I would be grateful if you could send me information regarding UFO groups in Staffordshire, esp. Stafford. --------------------------------------------------------------------- UNITED KINGDOM UFO NETWORK Please forward all reports to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Visit us on the World Wide Web at http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/ http://www.nolimits.demon.co.uk/ For information on receiving back issues and other files send mail with REQUEST INFO in the subject area to: ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk Meet us on the IRC. Regular meetings held every Saturday night at 11pm (2300hrs) - 10pm (2200hrs) GMT. Connect to irc.mirage.co.uk and join us on channel #UFO For advice on connecting to our weekly meetings via the irc please send mail to: ufo-irc-advice@crowman.demon.co.uk SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION The UK.UFO.NW free fortnightly e-zine covering UFO reports and information from the UK and around the world is now available by subscribing to our new List Server. Send mail to: listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu In the main body of the mail put: subscribe ufo fn ln note: in place of fn put your first name. in place of ln put your last name. For example: subscribe ufo John Smith A confirm mail will then be sent to you which you need to reply to within 48 hours to be put on the e-zine mailing list. Search for other documents from or mentioning: ufo | rusheymead |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Feb 97 21:10:47 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:39:16 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' Rebecca wrote: >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:13:57 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' >Here's my input. It's just another claim. As a member of the >International Research Group investigating the film, what have >you or your group done to research the claim? Absolutely nothing. I just learned of it today, and posted it widely for feedback. This is always my first step on new info/questions. If this has already been addressed by someone somewhere, the feedback process lets us know and prevents unnecessary duplication of effort. As it turns out, one person has already let me know that ANSI standards do not apply to the military, which uses its own set of standards, so this whole bit about ANSI standards is probably meaningless. Bob P.S.: Wanna join the IRG??? >Here's my input. It's just another claim. As a member of the International >Research Group investigating the film, what have you or your group done to >research the claim? Absolutely nothing. I just learned of it today, and posted it widely for feedback. This is always my first step on new info/questions. If this has already been addressed by someone somewhere, the feedback process lets us know and prevents unnecessary duplication of effort. As it turns out, one person has already let me know that ANSI standards do not apply to the military, which uses its own set of standards, so this whole bit about ANSI standards is probably meaningless. Bob P.S.: Wanna join the IRG???
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 Watery Birth of Stars From: David Watanabe <davew@aufora.org> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 19:18:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:40:40 -0500 Subject: Watery Birth of Stars AUFORA News Update Tuesday February 25th, 1997 http://www.aufora.org/ ___________________________ THE WATERY BIRTH OF STARS Weizmann Institute of Science - http://www.weizmann.ac.il/ Logically, stars should not exist. They are born when clouds of interstellar gas collapse inwardly under their own weight, growing denser and hotter until nuclear fusion causes them to emit energy in the form of light. However, since heat forces matter to expand, this hot contracting gas could be expected to immediately move outward again, preventing star formation from ever reaching completion. To resolve this paradox, scientists have postulated the existence of a water-based "cooling system" that regulates the temperature of interstellar clouds, enabling the contraction to continue. Now a Weizmann Institute study reported in Physical Review Letters provides experimental evidence that the billions of stars that populate our firmament indeed had a watery birth. Researchers have theorized that water molecules in interstellar clouds exert a cooling effect by colliding with the gas particles and absorbing their energy that is later released in the form of radiation. But attempts to observe water in the stars using Earth-bound telescopes have always been thwarted by the presence of water particles in our planet's atmosphere. Scientists have, however, detected a similar substance that could be an intermediary product in water formation: hydronium, or H3O+, which contains three hydrogen atoms (as compared with water's two), along with one oxygen atom. Drs. Daniel Zajfman and Oded Heber of the Weizmann Institute's Particle Physics Department have now completed an experiment demonstrating that water is indeed formed in interstellar clouds in a reaction involving hydronium. The experiment was carried out at an advanced installation called an ion storage ring at the University of Aarhus, Denmark, in collaboration with Aarhus researchers Dr. Lars Andersen, Dr. Dror Kella and Lisa Vejby- Christensen. The scientists simulated the physical and chemical conditions in interstellar clouds and showed that water is formed there in a reaction between a charged hydronium molecule and a single electron. They also found that a permanent ratio between water and hydronium molecules is maintained in these clouds. Special equipment aboard the U.S. research satellite SWAS, to be launched later this year, will be used to further explore the new findings without the interference of the Earth's atmosphere, in particular by directly measuring the quantity of water in the forming stars. Dr. Zajfman holds the Martha S. Sagon Career Development Chair at the Weizmann Institute. Funding for the study was provided by the Israel Science Foundation and the Danish National Research Foundation. The Weizmann Institute of Science is a major center of scientific research and graduate study located in Rehovot, Israel. __________________________________________________________ AUFORA News Update News & Information from the world of UFOlogy AUFORA Web: http://www.aufora.org/ AUFORA News: http://www.aufora.org/news/ ********************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "subscribe aufora" in the body of the message. TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send email to: majordomo@spots.ab.ca with "unsubscribe aufora" in the body of the message. Subscribe / unsubscribe requests not done following the above instructions will NOT be processed. ********************************************************** Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of AUFORA __________________________________________________________ Distributed by the Alberta UFO Research Association <a target=_top href=http://commonwealth.riddler.com/Commonwealth/bin/statthru?233083><img height=60 width=460 border=0 src=http://commonwealth.riddler.com/Commonwealth/bin/statdeploy?233083></a>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 05:10:14 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:07:26 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' > Date: 25 Feb 97 21:10:47 EST > From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' Thanks for your reply. > P.S.: Wanna join the IRG??? Nothing personal, but no thanks. And I don't wanna know the secret handshake either. <g> Rebecca >
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 TV Drama Takes An Unearthly Turn From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:29:10 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:06:12 -0500 Subject: TV Drama Takes An Unearthly Turn TV Drama Takes an Unearthly Turn By LISA de MORAES The Hollywood Reporter BPI (Feb. 25) - Drama development executives at the broadcast networks have been touched by angels. And ghosts. And ministers. And thoughts of an afterlife. These subjects abound in this development season's drama pilot list. So, too, do aliens and ''they walk among us'' story lines. It's not hard to figure out why. CBS' ''Early Edition'' - about a man who gets tomorrow's newspaper today, delivered by some higher force - is this season's highest-rated new drama series, and the network's religion-textured "Touched by an Angel" is this year's sophomore drama hit. Meanwhile, Fox's "X-Files'' remains the hippest drama on television, and two of NBC's three new Saturday paranormal ''thrillogy'' dramas have levitated the network from fourth place to first on the night among adults 18-49. All of this says there's a substantial audience out there who wants drama programming about something larger than themselves. And the networks are scrambling to provide it. This year's drama pilot crop also includes another type of show - fans call them ''revivals'' but critics label them retreads. With the retro concept making millions for feature film distributors, TV executives figure it might work on the small screen as well, so a noticeable number of pilots are based on successful series of yesteryear. And, despite repeated failures of the past, there's a slew of series based on hit feature films in the works. On the religious front, where CBS did not fear to tread, others are following. '' 'Touched by an Angel' was the first show in a long time with inherently religious overtones, and it proved a hit,'' said CBS Entertainment topper Leslie Moonves. ''As is often the case with genres of TV shows, many of them often follow established patterns.'' Continuing to set the pace, CBS has ordered up a pilot called ''The Travel Agency,'' about a group that helps people revisit their past, and also look at their present and future to better themselves. The eye network also was developing a drama about a Catholic priest on a police force, but that light seems to have dimmed. ABC has joined the flock, ordering a pilot called ''Nothing Sacred,'' about a Jesuit priest who uses unusual means to minister. And the WB has ordered a presentation on ''Almost Gone,'' about a doctor who, after a near-death experience, finds he can help the newly dead sort out their lives before they move on to the afterlife. Like CBS, the WB already has a vaguely religious drama series on its schedule, Monday's ''7th Heaven.'' Meanwhile, CBS has two ghost dramas ordered to pilot, one of which, ''Rag and Bone,'' is based on an Anne Rice concept about present-day cop partners - one of whom died in the '50s. Aliens and sci-fi are high on this year's list. ABC's ''Hungry for Survival'' is about a new species of man that is brilliant, without conscience and lethal. NBC's ''Von Helsing Chronicles'' follows the professorial great-grandson of Von Helsing - he's the guy who drove the stake through Dracula's heart - who is cursed with the ability to see monsters. The peacock is also preparing a pilot on ''Sleepwalkers,'' about a group of scientists who enter people's dreams to help them overcome problems. If either works, expect to see it on NBC's Saturday schedule, which the network wants to remain an all-paranormal franchise. Fox, which has had mixed results overall with paranormal drama series but enormous success with ''The X-Files,'' is dipping into the well one more time with ''The Visitor,'' from the ''Independence Day'' team of Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich, about an alien who visits Earth, Aliens have already visited the drama development execs of the broadcast networks. They've destroyed the portion of their brains that remember how badly series based on feature films have performed. This year's list of feature-based pilots, in the drama series category alone, is the longest in recent record. It includes ''The Player,'' ''Time Cop'' and ''Dirty Rotten Scoundrels'' at ABC; ''Fargo'' and ''The Magnificent Seven'' at CBS; and Fox's ''Roar,'' better known as '' 'Braveheart: The Series.' '' NBC is staying away from feature-based dramas. Warren Littlefield - senior statesman among the broadcast network entertainment division presidents - says they just don't work. ''You have a very raised level of expectation and rarely deliver,'' Littlefield said, adding that for the most part, good movie concepts are just that, good movie concepts. ''They are constructed and conceived as movies. It's very rare that a movie has within it the elements for 100 episodes,'' he said. Which explains why NBC passed on ''Fargo,'' now at CBS, but doesn't explain why NBC developed it and ordered the script in the first place. Surely NBC execs knew the producers can't deliver winter all year round and can't replicate the sick-making violence juxtaposed with comedy that works in the movies but keeps getting small-screen execs in trouble in Washington. And, the movie's Coen brothers, Ethan and Joel, are only attached to the pilot as consultants, which is Hollywood-ese for barely at all. Moonves feels strongly otherwise. He noted that ''The Magnificent Seven,'' for one, makes for a great concept for a TV series - ''Seven good guys come together to help the little guy in a small town,'' he said. Besides, Moonves joked, ''If we do that show and the 'Hawaii Five-0' remake, we'll have two shows with the best theme songs in the history of movies and television.'' Which brings us to another trend in this year's drama development: the series revival. Some pilots, including CBS' ''Hawaii Five-O'' and ABC's ''Cracker,'' based on the British series of same name, are based on one series. Others, including the WB's ''Three'' (''Mission: Impossible'' meets ''It Takes a Thief''), borrow from several series. ''The Travel Agency'' is described by some as ''Touched by an Angel'' meets ''Early Edition,'' but network sources described it as more like ''Touched by an Angel'' meets ''A Christmas Carol.'' That reveals a hybrid new to this development season: the old TV series mixed with the old feature. CBS is embracing this new genre wholeheartedly and has also ordered a pilot called ''Forever Yours,'' which contains elements of ''Moonlighting'' and ''Ghost.'' The eye is the only network with a drama-series spinoff for fall. Execs are contemplating another spinoff of ''Touched by an Angel'' - which has really taken off since its move from Saturday to Sunday - and have already ordered a spinoff of its highest-rated Saturday drama series, ''Walker, Texas Ranger.'' ''Sons of Thunder'' will feature the same concept as ''Walker,'' but this one will star teens. CBS hopes to use it at 10 p.m. to finish up its new Friday ''TGIF'' lineup that it is preparing for fall. (That kid-oriented lineup will begin at 8 p.m. with ''Family Matters,'' the defector from ABC's TGIF slate.) The WB is again ordering all presentations on its drama hopefuls. ''We give producers 'X' amount of dollars and tell them to shoot as much as they can,'' said programming chief Garth Ancier. (Sources say the 'X' stands for $1.2 million, but Ancier wouldn't confirm the figure.) Because the unfinished presentation costs substantially less than a finished pilot, ''We have the luxury of keeping the footage or throwing it out,'' Ancier said. Last development season, the WB saved about 15 minutes of the ''Savannah'' presentation, tossed all of the presentation on ''Buffy the Vampire Slayer'' and aired virtually the entire presentation of ''7th Heaven.'' ''This is a smart way to approach (drama series development),'' Ancier said. ''It leaves you flexible to make changes.'' Finally, UPN is bucking all of these trends because, as far as anyone can tell, it isn't ordering any drama pilots. This season, it reinvented itself as a sitcom network and had some success. UPN is expected to open up Thursday night next season with a movie block instead of series. APEX-02-25-97 0824EST
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 Re: 'Autopsy' Film From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 02:28:58 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:05:00 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy' Film > Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:37:24 +0100 > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> > From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Horror movie?' > But the most important thing is that he claims that the AA-film is > part of a cult-B-horror movie from 1971 called "Brains of Blood", > aka "The Creatures Revenge"- by director Al Adamson, who did > cheap H.G. Lewis-kind of films like "Blood of Draculas Castle"... > The movie is 83 minutes long and has Kent taylor, John Bloom > and Regina Carroll as actors. I don't think he claims this at all. I do not have the article in front of me, but I think he said in the article that someone had told him that the brain shot in Brain of Blood was similar to the one in the alien autopsy. > Does anyone have the time to check this up, or have any > additional information for me so I can dismiss it from my > pile of leads? I have a copy of the film in question. I acquired it from Sam Sherman who was kind enough to meet with me and give me a copy of the film. To me it does not resemble the brain removal in the autopsy. That's my opinion based on my limited knowledge of only having seen both films. I am no FX expert. It's my opinion you can elimate that from your pile of leads. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 Re: Friedman v Randles From: "Business to Business Magazine (Michael Malone)" <btbmag@ro.com> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 04:42:11 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:08:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: > Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles v bullcrap > Date: Tue, 25 Feb 97 14:13:08 -0600 > From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> > To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> > >In a message dated 97-02-24 23:57:10 EST, >from UFO UpDates, Mike > Malone said ... > > >This is a serious serious problem. > No s**t! How long must all this bickering crap go on? > When are ALL OF YOU SO CALLED PROFESSIONAL RESEARCHERS going to > POOL your resources and GET TO THE BOTTOM of the TRUTH??????? > While in the meantime folks who have day jobs do better work > in hobby mode as pertains to the truth about UFO. Well said. Well said indeed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 26 EXTRA! CNI News SPECIAL EDITION -- February 25, From: CNINews1@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:32:22 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:52:14 -0500 Subject: EXTRA! CNI News SPECIAL EDITION -- February 25, ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== EXTRA! CNI News SPECIAL EDITION -- February 25, 1997 Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== This is a special unscheduled edition of CNI News, reporting on an important new development in the "alien autopsy" investigation. This edition also corrects two errors which appeared in the February 16 edition of the news. The subject matter of CNI News is inherently controversial, and the views and opinions reported herein are not necessarily those of the editorial staff. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== CNI NEWS BEGINS "MANHUNT" FOR THE AUTOPSY CAMERAMAN CNI News has launched a full-scale search for the man who claims to have shot Ray Santilli's controversial "alien autopsy" film footage. Our hunt for the mystery cameraman will use the interactive power of the worldwide web as its primary asset, supported by the latest and best evidence we can acquire. Full details of the CNI News Manhunt are now posted on our web site at www.cninews.com/Manhunt.html. Featured at this site are still and motion pictures of the man, as recently shown on Japanese television. CNI News urges all our readers to examine the evidence presented at our web site and to send us any information that might help to identify the mystery cameraman. A direct-response page is included in the new Manhunt section of the site. We also urge all related web sites to announce this initiative and link directly to CNI News to assist in this search. The stakes are high. Despite the best efforts of dozens of top researchers in the U.S. and elsewhere, the autopsy controversy has resisted solution since it began in early 1995. Resolving the cameraman's identity will surely help to resolve the greater mystery of the footage itself. CNI News "Manhunt" is comprised of the following parts: * Background on the new cameraman video * The cameraman images -- stills and video with sound * Two versions of the cameraman's story, as told by Ray Santilli and the man himself * A history of the cameraman's possible whereabouts, past and present * A response page, for you to tell us what you know Robert Kiviat, executive producer of the 1995 FOX TV special "Alien Autopsy: Fact or Fiction," has strongly encouraged this new CNI News initiative. In a recent interview, Kiviat said: "This project at the CNI News site... may well be where the story breaks. We respect the direction you're going and we would like to help in every way we can to find this individual and to cover that on our [next] show." BACKGROUND ON THE LATEST VIDEO EVIDENCE As long ago as January, 1996, CNI News reported rumors that the alleged autopsy cameraman would participate in an interview with U.S. television producer Robert Kiviat, in cooperation with English producer Ray Santilli. Alhough Kiviat publicly acknowledged that he was negotiating to do an interview, it was not clear that the cameraman had actually been videotaped until U.S. researcher Bob Shell announced in September, 1996 that he had been shown the taped interview in Ray Santilli's London office. At Santilli's invitation, Kiviat had written 25 detailed questions for the cameraman to answer. On tape, the cameraman responded briefly to about half of these questions, but Kiviat himself was not present for the taping. The video was reportedly shot by the cameraman's own son on a non-professional camcorder. However, due to an apparent mistake in lighting, the cameraman's plan to obscure his own face failed. Though the son did turn this tape over to Santilli, he requested that it not be shown unless the face and the voice could be suitably disguised. Despite the cameraman's wishes, Ray Santilli soon decided to sell the unaltered video to a Japanese television network. The Japanese aired the footage in Japan in December, 1996. Soon, copies of that broadcast arrived in the United States. CNI News acquired a copy in early February. Though the video quality was poor, the cameraman's face was visible and his voice was clear. On February 21, 1997, producer Robert Kiviat spoke with CNI News editor Michael Lindemann about this latest development in the alien autopsy case and the new search for the mystery cameraman. Excerpts from that conversation follow: Michael Lindemann: When and how did you first see the cameraman's videotaped interview? Robert Kiviat: We got the footage in mid-July, 1996. The alleged son of the cameraman brought the footage to me in New York. I and one of Santilli's associates met the son. He seemed to be very nervous and concerned that the father had gone through a lot. He handed us the tape. The son said he felt the father had had enough, and the family wished the guy had never come out with the footage because it caused a lot of problems. Subsequent to the son leaving the hotel room, we -- myself and Ray Santilli's associate -- watched the tape, which is what eventually aired in Japan. Lindemann: Now that Ray Santilli has released this footage to the Japanese, what would you like to see happen? Kiviat: At this point, my goals would be to have the cameraman's image shown on national television to the widest possible audience, so that if somebody knows who this person is, they would contact me or the network or anyone connected to the program, and we would have an answer. This basically is where we are headed. My company is now in preproduction on a possible new FOX UFO special. This is not official, but I can say fairly certainly that there is going to be a UFO special that will recap the alien autopsy/cameraman issue in every way possible, based on what is known at the time we finalize the show for airing. And my guess is, this show would be timed to air, as one would guess, around the anniversary of Roswell and the 1947 UFO wave. Lindemann: Does the man you met, who claims to be the son, look enough like the man on the film to be family-related? Kiviat: Ironically, yes. He does look like the father to some degree. I could say, if he's an actor, they probably picked an actual father and son. It struck me right away. The second the tape was popped in the machine in the hotel room, when the son left and we started watching it, I thought immediately that it looked like him. Lindemann: Was this meeting specifically for the purpose of handing over the tape? Kiviat: It was supposed to be a meeting where I would both meet the cameraman and receive a copy of the tape from him. Ray even promised there would be an opportunity for me to discuss with the cameraman the potential of him doing a full interview with me. Unfortunately, that never happened. A last minute "emergency" came up and Ray couldn't make it. So he sent a representative. And that, according to Ray, is the reason the father himself did not come. When Ray said that he couldn't make it, the cameraman apparently decided he wouldn't come either. So the emissaries met with me. Lindemann: Who is in possession of the first generation copy of that film? Kiviat: Ray Santilli controls the actual material, the first generation airable copy of the interview. I have not maintained any position, publically at least, as to what the rights are to that. At this point, what's done is done, and he did give it to the Japanese. Unfortunately for Ray, it is now appearing on this [CNI News] web site. I think Ray would prefer that it not be on the web. However, I have no way of inhibiting anyone, and I don't think I would choose to inhibit anyone from sharing this man's image. I'm the one, from the beginning, who wanted every possible clue, because we were approaching this as a detective story, and this is not closed yet. So any clue I could possibly get would be used in the upcoming show that we're in preproduction on, and that's why I think it's imperative that Ray consider the importance of sharing more information about this individual with me, the network and everybody else. It is critical, for everyone, to close this out. Lindemann: Ray Santilli evidently sold the videotape to the Japanese with no stipulation that the man's face and voice be disguised. Is it your impression that the cameraman is OK with this, or has Ray Santilli now broken faith with this man after allegedly protecting his identity for nearly two years? Kiviat: That's an issue right now. I can say for sure that at one time the cameraman wanted to be silhouetted. But now it appears he doesn't mind not being silhouetted. I think the most proof-positive thing you could say about that is that he himself shot the interview. He could watch it. You've got to figure that someone who took this much time to think about coming out, while Ray and I courted him, would take the time to adjust the contrast on his television to see if his face shows. I'm wondering what's going on here, because to me, this man and his son were bright enough to know that they could have guaranteed silhouette, but they didn't do that. They sent it in as is. That may well be the biggest clue to his willingness to come out. Lindemann: Was the cameraman paid to do this interview? Kiviat: My understanding was that he was paid. I have absolutely no idea how much money, but my understanding is that there was an exchange of money for tape. Lindemann: As you know, CNI News is now determined to do everything possible to discover the identity of this man. Not only are we posting still images and a short video clip of the cameraman on this website, but we have also created an interactive area so that people who may have information on this man's identity or whereabouts can enter that information in the new database we've built for this purpose. We will then compile and distribute information from this database to key researchers, of course including yourself. For the benefit of all visitors to this web site, especially potential eyewitness contributors to our search, would you please explain your own view of, and involvement in, this effort? Kiviat: Since I'm in preproduction on a potential new UFO special for FOX, it's very important to view this as a possible element in the show. If we can close this thing out during preproduction, we'll cover how this web site and this project led to a closure. This is the first time that anyone has shown the footage to the American public through some media outlet. People need to see this face and see if they know who this person is. This is a big step, in my opinion, because the internet is going to become a major source for cooperation between television shows like mine and the viewing public. This project at the CNI News site is a great beginning -- I can't stress that enough -- to get information out to the public and to help close some of these nagging issues in one of the greatest mysteries of perhaps the last 25 years. It's time to close this out now. We want daily reports on anything that comes in. Eventually, this may well be where the story breaks. So we respect what you're doing at CNI News. We respect the direction you're going and we would like to help in every way we can to find this individual and to cover that on our show. WHO IS THE MYSTERY CAMERAMAN? Almost from the moment the autopsy film first came to light in early 1995, questions were raised regarding its authenticity. In the two years that have elapsed since then, the majority of researchers involved with the film have labeled it a probable hoax. Still, some researchers are staunchly convinced the film is exactly what it purports to be -- actual military footage of an alien autopsy -- and most others concede that the claim of hoax has not yet been proven. Now, a man has proclaimed himself to be the cameraman. We have his face, his voice and his words. The identity of this man is now the critical link in establishing, once and for all, whether or not the Santilli autopsy film should be taken seriously. Is he an actual military cameraman? Once his identity is known, we might be able to substantiate his military service record and his actual whereabouts during the crucial period of the late 1940s. On the other hand, is he actually an actor? Is he possibly involved in the special effects industry? Is he younger than he is supposed to be? How deeply involved has he been with Santilli's project? CNI News again urges all our readers to assist in resolving these questions. We will report on every new development as soon as possible. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== ERRATA -- OF VIDEO RIGHTS AND ABDUCTION INSURANCE The volume 2, number 23 edition of CNI News contained two errors that came to light after delivery on February 16. We wish to correct those errors here. HESEMANN DENIES SANTILLI VIDEO RIGHTS CNI News claimed that German UFO researcher and magazine publisher Michael Hesemann had exclusive marketing rights to the Santilli alien autopsy footage in Germany. Hesemann declared this claim untrue in a letter to CNI News. "It's true that I did offer Santilli's video through my magazine after I came to the conclusion that it is most probably genuine," Hesemann said. "I bought the tapes from Santilli, but that's all. I never marketed the footage in any other way than selling tapes to my readers and I did not have any exclusive and definitely no marketing rights. The same tapes were offered by at least one other company in Germany which bought them from Santilli, and Ray himself sold the rights to German TV." CNI News apologizes for the inaccuracy. ABDUCTION INSURANCE PAYOUT WAS A HOAX CNI News thanks reader John Stepkowski for sending us an article from the (UK) Sunday Times, dated January 12, which corrects our February 16 story titled "'Abduction Insurance' Pays First Big Claim." Excerpts from the Times story, by Maurice Chittenden, follow: The truth is out there. But for a man supposedly paid one million pounds by an insurance company for being abducted by aliens, the truth is an embarrassing down-to-earth scam. Joseph Carpenter, 23, an electrician from Edmonton, north London, says he was taken aboard an alien craft while UFO-spotting in Wiltshire. He and his insurer insist he was paid one million pounds from a policy covering him against abduction. The story of the payout was widely reported. If anything is out of this world in the tale it is Carpenter who, like the spaceship, does not exist. For Joe Carpenter read Joe Tagliarini, an unemployed City of London courier, who dreamt up the idea of selling American-style alien abduction insurance in Britain. The man "paying" the one million pound cheque is, in fact, Tagliarini's business partner, Simon Burgess, 35, an insurance broker with a talent for promoting bizarre policies to get publicity. The British insurance industry is distancing itself from Burgess, claiming he is a maverick and no longer registered as a broker. However, Burgess boasts he has already sold 1,100 policies against alien abduction with "many hundreds of inquiries" a day since the payout. Last week both men were sticking to their stories, although they admitted Tagliarini and Carpenter were one and the same. Burgess said: "I wanted to protect his identity." Tagliarini claimed he had been hiding in Bermuda since receiving the cheque but could not say where he had stayed. He denied ever being involved in the insurance business. "This really happened to me. I was held for about 40 minutes before being returned to Earth. How can people deny the existence of aliens? There is so much out there," he said. ==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++== Except as otherwise noted, the entire text of CNI News is copyright 1997 by the 2020 Group. As a condition of receiving CNI News, all recipients agree not to post CNI News on any Newsgroup, Web site, BBS or similar electronic location, nor redistribute CNI News by any electronic means, except for the express purpose of encouraging others to subscribe, or unless with prior permission of the editor. In general, electronic posting or redistribution of single articles or short excerpts from CNI News will be approved, provided credit is given to the author and CNI News in every instance. Hard copy (paper) reproduction and redistribution of CNI News, in whole or part, for educational purposes is permitted.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Re: Friedman v Randles From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:51:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:18:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles > > Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles v bullcrap > > >In a message dated 97-02-24 23:57:10 EST, >from UFO UpDates, Mike > > Malone said ... > > No s**t! How long must all this bickering crap go on? > > When are ALL OF YOU SO CALLED PROFESSIONAL RESEARCHERS going to > > POOL your resources and GET TO THE BOTTOM of the TRUTH??????? Here, here! Entirely too many of the Prima Donnas in the UFO community are "ate-up-with-it" as they say here in the "Bluegrass." Jerry Washington SD Kentucky/MUFON Home of Captain Thomas Mantell The Hopkinsville "Invasion" & The "Ladies of Liberty"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Feb 97 10:03:04 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:22:48 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 05:10:14 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' >>>> And I don't wanna know the secret handshake either. <g><<<<< Obviously you are already a member. That there IS a secret handshake is our biggest secret. But for mentioning it in public, you are henceforth blackballed. Sorry. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 UFO's in Israel From: Chamish Barry <chamish@netmedia.net.il Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:36:17 +0200 (IST) Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:17:23 -0500 Subject: UFO's in Israel ISRAELI ARABS MEET DEMONS by Barry Chamish The most recent wave of UFO Israeli UFO encounters which began in earnest in February of 1996 with a number of filmed sightings had, by late summer and early autumn taken a turn to the bizarre. The wave can be divided into three categories: 1) Sightings of craft by respected Jews. 2) Jewish witnesses of aliens. 3) Encounters with what could be demons by Israeli Arabs. First the sightings of UFOs; On October 4, Yediot Ahronot reported that two weeks earlier an Israeli air force helicopter was ordered to chase a UFO sighted by the air traffic control tower at Ben Gurion airport. The army spokesman refused to give details of the incident. The same day, the weekly Yerushalayim reported that Avi Gabai, an aide to Rabbi Kadouri, the most revered spiritual leader of Sephardic Jews, witnessed a flying saucer above the city of Maale Adumim, near Jerusalem. Another witness to the same event, Batya Elav, reported, "Twenty five meters above us we saw two strong lights that stared at us like two eyes. Suddenly, two more lights went on and we saw a saucer floating above us without making a sound." Gabai asked Rabbi Kadouri what it all meant and he answered, "Angels are arriving to spy, to witness the affairs of men and if need be, to destroy." He went on to explain that sometimes bad angels are sent to overthrow good ones. Finally, in this category, on October 28, a traffic cop, Asher Avsarah, saw a "huge saucer standing motionless above Kiryat Gat," in the northern Negev Desert. The incident occurred at 5 AM before he began duty. A strong white light shone on his squad car and he and his partner left the vehicle to investigate. "We were scared," he admitted. "The saucer had two small white lights with very strong beams. Suddenly the saucer did circles round and round and the lights were extinguished and relit in turns. I noticed that when the saucer stopped turning, the lights stayed on constantly again." Now Jews see aliens; The following reports were collected from Zman Tel Aviv (Maariv's weekend magazine) and Yediot Ahronot. It is important to recall, in light of the stories, that these are Israel's two largest and most respected newspapers. Because of the length of the material, the incidents have been paraphrased in places. On July 29, Udi Barban turned on his bathroom light and it began flickering. A few minutes later the same thing happened in his kitchen. He then joined his wife Semadar in bed. She recalls, "I couldn't sleep. I felt something was watching me. I turned my head toward the wall and almost had a heart attack. I saw a creature glowing at me. His hands were by his side. His eyes were holes with with two gentle rays emitted from them. He didn't move or make a sound. His head looked like a big light bulb and it stood on a skinny,long neck. He had a distended grey belly. He was the size of a human being and his finger tips were covered with some kind of material that made it look as if he didn't have fingers. I tried to yell but no sound was emitted. I turned to Udi but he kept sleeping. Then I got another shock. There was another creature on the other side of the bed standing motionless, just staring at me. His hands were greyish brown and a gentle silver light was emitted from his eyes. The communicated with each other in a humming sound. Suddenly there was a strong wind in the room, like someone turned on a fan, and they were gone." The noise woke up Udi and he grabbed a knife and went looking through the house for a thief. When he returned he saw his wife cowering in the bed "like a frightened little girl." On August 1, M.S., aged 51, of Alphei Menashe was reading in bed when strange a spiral of blue, violet and red light entered the room through the window. Within the spiral floated a 60 cm. tall creature. He was bald, his eyes were glowing and the skin was grey. Instead of a nose, he had two nostrils. "I covered my eyes with my hands and when I removed them, the creature stood beside me. His hands were thin and glued to his body like a soldier. I wasn't terrified, rather I felt frozen. Then my body warmed up like I received an electric shock. My lips felt suddenly prickly and I screamed for help. My father, who slept in the floor below me, heard me and began climbing the stairs. Then, all the lights in the house shut off. My father screamed at me for shutting off the electricity. When he got to my room, the creature was gone." On September 16, the most publicized incident of all occurred. The saga of 62 year old Yuri Isaacov was related in all the media and even made the headlines of the evening news programs of both television networks. The reason for the excitement was physical evidence that the retired seaman was, in fact, abducted by aliens and taken on their craft. At 7:50 in the evening Isaacov walked towards the post office of Upper Nazareth when a giant saucer-shaped craft floated three meters above him. The craft glowed and had antennae projecting from it. In a blink of an eye, he found himself inside the craft, surrounded by metre high beings. The beings were "bald, small, had large eyes, three fingers, big heads and no noses. They spoke in a strange language. I sat like a baby and kept quiet for about an hour until three creatures that looked a bit different arrived. They gave orders to the smaller ones and one of them threw a yellow powder at me. After that I don't remember anything." Isaacov next found himself in a soccer field near his home. He walked to the police station and reported his experience to inspector Eli Ben-Anat who later reported, "He wasn't crazy. His clothes were clean but yellow powder covered his arms from the elbow to the hand." The powder was later examined at Haemek Hospital in Afula and at a private laboratory, Krina Shimushit. The first report of the laboratory manager, Mickey Coby was, "The material is composed of 55% aluminium and is very strange." No similar soil exists in the region. On October 22, two teenage girls, described in Zman Tel Aviv as "serious and believable," sat in a car on a side street not far from Tel Aviv's City Hall at 2 AM. "Suddenly we saw a short man with sloping shoulders approach us. When we saw his face we screamed hysterically. He wasn't a human being. He had an oval face, wore a shiny red vinyl suit and black shirt which covered his neck and hands. He had huge blue eyes in a strange, white socket. I stepped on the accelerator and backed up at full speed. But he followed us either floating or at a very fast run. My headlights lit up his face so it was always visible to us." Finally, Arabs meet demons. The Jewish experience in Israel in 1996 was certainly astonishing but it fit into standard worldwide patterns. Saucers were seen by policemen and religious people who had no desire to be UFO witnesses. And equally stable people had encounters with the prototypical small grey aliens described by witnesses in dozens of countries. The Arabs of Israel had very different stories to tell. They did not follow the Jewish pattern and seemed to be unique, also, to international encounters. On September 13, Dr. Harav Ibn Bari, a physician at Hasharon Hospital in Petach Tikveh, was returning from Beersheva by car with his cousin Dudi Muhmad at the wheel. He relates, "After passing the bridge to Tel Aviv at 3:30 AM, I saw strange figure on the opposite side of the road. We did a U-turn stopped the car. The figure came out of the shadows and into the light. He was small and his body colour, light. He lifted his right leg and approached us at terrific speed. He had huge, bulging, round black eyes. They conrasted with the white colour around them. It was as if he was reading my thoughts and I couldn't take my eyes of his for six seconds. He lifted his right hand and Muhmad pressed on the gas and took off." On October 19, Khaj Muhmad Jamal Kavah, 45, a Tel Aviv cab driver who lives in the Arab village of Al-Arian met his cousin Ataf Kavah at 6 PM at Mei-Ami Junction to drive to a dinner party. "I saw him and signalled that he wait a moment while I relieved myself first. I heard him saw,`Okay.' When I was finished I approached the car and saw that Ataf was wearing a shiny suit. I thought to myself, in his whole life Ataf never wore material like that. I bent down to open the door and saw that Ataf wasn't sitting in the driver's seat. I stared over and over but the driver paid no attention to me. Then I saw the weird creature. He had long hair reaching to his shoulders, his nose was enormous like an eggplant, coloured purplish black. I almost had a heart attack. But I regained my senses and began walking backwards towards the highway. My plan was to make a break for the cars if he followed me. But I couldn't run because I felt something holding me in place for fifteen minutes. Then Ataf opened the door and came out looking totally confused. I shouted at him, `You're not Ataf. What do you want from me?'" Ataf recalls sitting in he car and wondering why it was taking Muhmad so long to get in. He got out of the car and asked him what he was waiting for. He remembers Muhmad yelling, "You're not Ataf. Who are you? Where's the shiny suit you were wearing?." Since the incident, Muhmad took and passed a polygraph test arranged for him by Maariv. His home has become a pilgrammage center as dozens of people a day come to hear his story. Included among them are Muslim religious leaders who have concluded that Muhmad met a demon and irritated him by relieving himself in his territory. They say the demons are rising because so many Arabs are straying from their religion. The next night, October 20, will never be forgotten Eli Hawald, 33, of a village near Haifa called Kfar Hawald. The tiny village has no electricity and when Eli Hawald went outside at 11:00 PM, all was too clear for him. "Out of nowhere I saw a gigantic green light, the colour of a traffic light, fall out of the sky. I ran into the house, locked the door and watched from the window. When the craft was about ten metres above the ground, the light was dimmed and three figures were `shot' to the ground in it. I began to shake. They had human-like bodies but because they were 20 metres from my house, I couldn't distinguish their faces, just their colour, which was completely black. They acted oddly. They would fan out, quickly return to one formation and fan out again. I remember two things distinctly. They reformed after a siren was sounded that resembled puppies crying. And their speed was fantastic, tens of metres in two seconds. At this point, I alerted my wife and children and we escaped through the back door." Two days later, Jenin was the site of perhaps the most remarkable incident of all. According to Yediot Ahronot reporter Said Badran, a Jenin resident picked up a hitchhiker on the Jenin-Dotan road. A few moments after he sat in the front seat, the driver looked at him and saw his face had become that of a dog with one eye. The driver stopped his car, got out and fainted after he saw the hitchhiker disappear. Badran concludes, "The incident has become the talk of Jenin. Some of the religious leaders believe that the passenger was a demon who lives in the area. Others believe he is a devil known as The Blind Liar who has returned to presage the arrival of the messiah. The driver is still in shock and is being treated at Jenin Hospital. The situation, then, in Israel during the autumn of 1996, is that Jews are experiencing encounters with the small grey aliens well known by UFO students around the world, while the Arabs are either interpreting similar experiences very differently or are, in fact, being pestered by demons. -------------------------------------------- Sent by Barry Chamish - Israeli journalist. Phone/Fax : (972)-2-9914936 E-Mail : chamish@netmedia.net.il ************************************************************ The Konformist is interested in accepting articles, opinions, free subscriptions, and advertising. E-mail us at Robalini@aol.com, or call (310) 967-4195. The Konformist is a subsidiary of Sterling Operation Solutions, the trouble-shooting problem-solvers for all business needs. We charge on a sliding scale based on the difficulty (and legality) of the proposed solution. Call (310) 967-4195 for further information. Hey kids, don't forget to enter the "Rockin' To Armageddon Sweepstakes", sponsored by The Konformist, the Official Internet Investigative Journal of the 1997 Academy Awards. (Okay, it's not official, but we're anti-authority anyways.) Right down the day, month, year, and time of the end of the world, and, as a tie-breaker, your nominee for the anti-Christ. The winner will receive a t-shirt stating, "I CameClosest To Predicting The Apocalypse, And All I Got Was This Crummy T-Shirt." You will also receive a free one year supply of Twix candy bars. Also, this is a free magazine, but we'll still take your money if you want. Please send cash, check, money orders, and credit card numbers (Visa, Master Card, American Express, or Discover) to: Robert Sterling Post Office Box 24825 Los Angeles, California 90024-0825 ************************************************************ Rob's Place A SITE IS DEDICATED TO SPIRIT, TRUTH, PEACE, JUSTICE, AND FREEDOM http://www.vom.com/rc/home.htm Robalini's Note: This is another Rob. I have no interest in spirit, truth, peace, justice, and/or freedom. I do have an interest in making money. -------------------------------------------- Sent by Barry Chamish - Israeli journalist. Phone/Fax : (972)-2-9914936 E-Mail : chamish@netmedia.net.il --------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Re: STS80 and STS48 updates From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:50:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:20:10 -0500 Subject: Re: STS80 and STS48 updates >Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 16:17:26 GMT >To: 72326.3625@compuserve.com >From: Erik <Beckjord@transbay.net> >Subject: STS 48 SPACE SHUTTLE VIDEO SHOWS SAUCER >In the study of the STS 80 events, (space shuttle ufos) >we have given sts-48, (Discovery, 1991) a re-look, and review, >and now it appears that event 3, as per Don Ratsch, shows what >seems like a structured craft, i.e., a "flying saucer", for >five to ten seconds. Slowed down by freeze-frame, it shows a >shape-shifting object that does often look like a saucer with a dome >on it. >Given the tendency of the media and the public to demand that >ufos look like "space ships", and not fiery blobs, this should make >many excited and happy. The NASA/Gov't connection is good. Debris and >ice just don't look like saucers....and this has a firm trajectory. >Forward to Ted Koppel's producer at ABC, and all lists, Strange >Univ.,etc. >Seriously. Stills and video copies have been sent out to >the usual suspects. Donations to help pay back these costs are >appreciated. A public thanks and acknowledgement to Erik for kindly forwarding said STS 80 shuttle footage allowing 800 people attending last Saturday's Solihull (UK) UFO Conference a chance to see the striking images for themselves. The footage will also be screened tonight (Wednesday, 26 February) at Leeds University Conference Auditorium during evening presentations by John Carpenter (USA) and A.J. Gevaerd (Brazil) and at Falkirk Town Hall in Scotland this coming Saturday, 1 March. Some computer enhanced images from STS 48 of a small "structured craft" will be shown by analyst Russel Callaghan during his presentation. Bottom line? Come along and see the complete footage with your own eyes. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:50:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:21:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf Date: 20 Feb 97 16:38:44 EST From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: Dr. Michael Wolf The Duke of Mendoza presents his compliments. > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > From: "Michael Hockney" <bhockney@vip.net> > To: <skywatch@phoenix.net> > Subject: COSMIC TOP SECRET / DR. MICHAEL WOLF > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 00:55:57 -0800 [snip] > This article is in UFO MAGAZINE and the interview was conducted > by James Courant, transcripted by Graham W. Birdsall. >[snip] >Sadder still are the editorial standards of the Birdseed Bros who >published this rubbish. It marks a new low in a magazine already >guaranteed to give those of culture and taste an astonished guffaw >with every turn of the page. Their motives would make interesting >reading. So will their reactions to the screams of "disinformation" >that ought, on previous form, to be expected from various quarters. >best wishes >P. Mendoza Brassrubber >(A usual suspect) The "Birdseed Bros" - that brings back 26-year-old memories from our schooldays! Well, regardless of what one may or may not think of Dr. Michael Wolf, I simply reported on the statements made by James Courant at the 15th Leeds International UFO Conference (6 - 8 September 1996) and subsequently transcribed to the best of my ability audiotape interviews between said gentlemen. The transcript duly appeared in our Nov/Dec '96 issue of the magazine which appeared on newsstands on Thursday, 24 October 1996. However, in the interest of balance, it is only fair and reasonable to quote what I had to say in the end paragraph of said article: "In our opinion, Dr. Michael Wolf is either one of the most convincing story-tellers seen for decades, or he might just turn out to be the most important figure to emerge in Ufology for the last 50 years. Only time will tell." What is equally important to recognise is that the article surfaced only weeks after Dr. Wolf had spoken on radio in the United States - until that time nobody had ever heard of the man. Had we not published the transcript of his interview with James Courant, would we be any the wiser? Wolf could have gone on to establish himself as yet another mysterious figure able to pop out of the woodwork at any given time. I also wrote in the final summary of the feature: "... doubtless he will come under the most intense media spotlight (along with UFO researchers too) as they seek to confirm or deny all or part of his [Dr. Wolf's] incredible revelations." To be fair, only Stanton T. Friedman made the effort to check-out Dr. Wolf's credentials. It's taken 5 months for any further comment. Motives behind our decision to publish? To allow other researchers to duly scrutinise Dr. Wolf's background in the United States and pass comment (and judgement) accordingly. That we achieved. Best regards, Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] UFO Magazine Search for other documents from or mentioning: 106151.1150 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Re: Friedman v Randles From: Bob Rickard <rickard@forteantimes.com> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 97 17:17:51 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 01:24:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles Michael Malone responding to something I wrote ... >And even if, as you imply, it NEVER would have gotten outside of the small >region servered by this newspaper, are you honestly suggesting that a >businessman accept incorrect and inappropriate information put out about >their business in any market? * of course I'm not suggesting that; nor, specifically, am I saying that just because MEN is relatively unknown outside its area it would make any libel or defamatory statements it may contain, OK. What I was trying to ask, in my clumsy way, is just *how* STF reckons this damaged his earnings in the immediate term and damaged his ability to earn in the long term? Bob Rickard - editor rickard@forteantimes.com FORTEAN TIMES - www.forteantimes.com *FT - where the extraordinary is just another day at the office* "Metaphysical speculations are attempts to think unthinkably, and it is quite hard enough to think thinkably." Charles Fort
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 From: planmyst@PlanetaryMysteries.com (Kynthia) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:50:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:06:44 -0500 Subject: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 May the Universe Bless us with the Profound Awareness of our Unity. * * * * * PLANETARY MYSTERIES UPDATE __________________________ Hi Friends, This is an update on the new contributions to our site since my last email to you. We've got a NEW LOOK...featuring a new work by the amazing Michael Sterling of Sterling Studios...so if you haven't HIT THE RELOAD BUTTON , be sure you do...or you won't really get to see us. BRIEF SPHINX UPDATE: Many of you have asked.."what's the latest?" I have held off saying anything because at this time there are only UNCONFIRMED RUMORS: - Fox did buy broadcasting rights - a chamber was opened in October that contained a small statue of a (knealing?) black man. - all other digging negotiations have stopped or are hidden. _________ NEW ITEMS SINCE LAST UPDATE: * Face on Mars- Review based on the work of Randolfo Rafael Pozos Report by Greydon Moore-An overview of the Mars Research. * ZEN. . . AND THE ART OF DEBUNKERY- by by Daniel Drasin * The Mars/Earth Enigma: A Sacred Message to Mankind-Interview with DeAnna Emerson. From Transcripts of the Hieronimus & Co.: 21st Century Radio and The Zoh Show: * Archeological Excavations Trip to Early Roman/Byzantine site Led by Dr. James F. Strange of the University of South Florida. Excavations at Sepphoris, Israel, 1997 * "The Day the Earth Nearly Died" - by D.S. Allan and J. B. Delair, Book Review by Richard G. Allen * Potential Problems with the Mars Global Surveyor- The Mars Global Surveyor Spacecraft now has a 2nd communications which opens the door to secret communications. * Latest photos of Mars Face Sculpture by Kynthia with comments from: Hoagland, McDaniels and Carlotto * MARK DWANE: Interview with Sequence Magazine * MARK DWANE: Interview with Margen Magazine * UPDATED LINKS PAGE: well worth checking out. UPCOMING: * Book Review of Genesis and Geneset: revelations on how ancient esoteric mysteries about our past and future have been handed down in myth and geometric puzzles, which were laid out on the ground using sacred markers and churches. Genisis (1985) sets the stage for Geneset (1994), which reveals the comet cycle and the reason the ancients knew when the End Time would come, as predicted by measurements inside the Great Pyramid. * More postcards from Guido Guiseppi. * SPACEWALK - a compilation of art and thoughts from you, the readers. Our journey together. * More new links. * Mars Face Pendant / Pin / Buckle...sculpted by Kynthia. * Mars Tetrahedron Commemorative Piece. * For Fun... * * * * * * Planetary Mysteries is dedicated to our unfolding understanding by making available views from the new fronteir on science and art, from mind and heart. I invite you to share from your path. * Xplorers We're mapping the quadrant... ...will you join us on this journey?...into Inner / Outer Space. Many of you have something significant to contribute, perhaps I can post on Planetary Mysteries ... Together we can open our Destiny. Kynthia Kynthia@PlanetaryMysteries.com Creator of Planetary Mysteries http://www.PlanetaryMysteries.com This is a grassroots effort, so sometimes the process is a little slow, but worth the wait. Be sure and check out the NASA PETITION AND EMAIL CAMPAIGN on Planetary Mysteries, together we can make a difference.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Truth Seekers, UFO & Paranormal Conference (UK) From: Raine & Crow <crow@crowman.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:24:16 GMT Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:04:13 -0500 Subject: Truth Seekers, UFO & Paranormal Conference (UK) Please find enclosed information on the upcoming U.K.=20 Truth Seekers, UFO & Paranormal Conference.=20 ***************TRUTH SEEKERS****************** UFO & Paranormal Conference Sunday March 23rd 1997 SPEAKERS: DERREL SIMS (USA), Alien Abduction scientific research and implant removal. (Derrel will have implants with him to show to members of the public. ROBERT BAUVAL, Co-author of The Orion Mystery, Radical new pyramids theories. NICK REDFERN, Author on UFO subject and government cover-ups. MALCOLM ROBINSON, UFO investigator on the recent Bonnybridge sightings. DR.RICHARD LAWRENCE Gods from space and ET visitations-are we alone? ANANDA SIRESENA, Photographic evidence of a City On Mars. MATTHEW WILLIAMS, UFO investigator and UFO journalist-cover-ups. MARCUS ALLEN, Nexus magazine speaks on The Secret Societies & World Affairs. INTERVIEW WITH REAL LIFE ABDUCTEES, Your chance to ask questions... -PLUS SPECIAL GUEST SPEAKER-TO BE REVEALED ON THE DAY OF CONFERENCE- Books, Videos, Stalls, Hypnosis workshops, Book signings, Special Appearances *=20 plus lots more NORTHHAMPTON GLENVILLES CONFERENCE HALL & NIGHT CLUB, NR COGENHOE, NORTHAMPTON (OFF M1 JUNCT. 15A, THEN A45 TO WELLINGBORO' - PLENTY OF FREE PARKING.) PRICE OF TICKETS =A310 - ADVANCE ORDERS VIA GLENVILLES BOOKING OFFICE - 01604 786666 Speakers are confirmed but may be subject to change at short notice. Crow & Raine........ http://www.crowman.demon.co.uk http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/3665/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Re: Devereux - Rutkowski EL/TST From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:58:30 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:05:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Devereux - Rutkowski EL/TST Dear All, On 17 Feb, Chris Rutowski wrote: >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Devereux-Rutkowski: > Closure of the EL/TST Debate,please! >Errol, Jan, and others: >In an attempt to invoke closure to this debate, I am going to >make a few comments then sit back and let the proponents continue >with their fun.To cover all the bases, we could be at this debate >for years. I particularly liked being accused of "omitting" certain >points because there was no way to address all the issues in >a forum such as this, and in short posts. I understand some of Chris's feelings: it took me hours to deal with his earlier criticisms point by point. I had not responded to Chris's barrages via various media for some years, but I was persuaded to join this list to reply to his postings here. Now he wants out! Yet he earlier complained of EL researchers ignoring his criticisms. It seems we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. Anyhow, perhaps Chris can understand now that his continued critique costs *other* people the time and energy he seems unprepared to give himself when he is subjected to the same kind of scrutiny. But,Chris, please either stay or go - cleanly. Leaving behind a series of statements as you did only perpetuates confusion. I feel obliged to deal with some of them, but for my own time and patience, if no one else's, I'll skip some. Alas, the point-by-point approach is the only way to squash misunderstandings; otherwise, generalisations - often ill-informed - just go back and forth and the progress of understanding is not served. >I don't think that I or Jan or others have misjudged the TST >and Paul's earth lights. There still is no scientific evidence >supporting the various incarnations and theories. There is as much evidence for EL as there is for BL and EQL, and those latter phenomena are the subjects of bona fide scientific research. In fact, there is better evidence for EL than for BL in photographic and, now, instrumental terms. What scientific evidence was there for 'sprites' (vast areas of flickering red or blue energy rising miles above thunderstorms, moving at a fifth the speed of light)? They were only discovered in 1994 by fortuitous high-altitude photography. They are there, that is all we know. The same with EL. The point of research is to try to improve the evidence, improve the knowledge, so as to improve the theoretical models. Answers to the riddles of nature do not come neatly packaged like TV dinners. >What I and others disagree about is the way UFO data and >seismic data are linked without any kind of cause or mechanism. There is no doubt that unexplained aerial phenomena , usually lightforms, are reported - and have been photographed - occurring in association with seismicity and geological factors (faulting, mineralisation, microquake zones - water bodies, volcanos, etc.) These lightforms display sizes, shapes and behaviour that are found in UFO sightings reports. I don't know what the linking mechanisms are - but the phenomena occur. Without research, we never will know will we? If we knew, we wouldn't have to research! It is a reasonable supposition that tectonic stress is likely to be a major candidate, and that is a good one to go for until research either reinforces that possible connection, or comes up with other answers. But we won't come up with anything at all by sitting on our rear ends moaning about not understanding the mechanisms. >Further, in teh case of Persinger, he definitely did misuse statistics >and used way-off data to "prove" his case. I hear Chris's criticisms, while not agreeing with them all. I think the best thing Chris could do would be to select UFO sightings data that he finds acceptable for a series of regions, determine his own parameters - time lags, distances, levels of seismicity, etc., and then conduct his own multivariate analyses (or arrange to have someone do them for him). I for one would welcome such helpful and constructive work. But there is a catch - this would open Chris himself to possible criticisms concerning such factors as the reasons for his choice of data, the validity of his parameters and methodological procedures, etc. You see, I don't think Persinger is cheating as Chris unavoidably implies - I think it is a question whether one agrees or not with the determining of data in an almost overwhelminglyvariable situation. It has to be trial and error. Whatever data, time lags, distances one chooses, however objective one thinks one is being, such decisions are inevitably arbitrary and open to criticism by those who think they know the data and mechanisms better (or think that the premise is invalid at the outset). I'm not taking sides here, just pointing out how difficult it is. Persinger has got up there, stuck his neck out, and has done some thought-provoking work whatever Chris or his mates believe. I have no doubt at all that Persinger will have to constantly refine,even redefine, and improve his parameters. But Chris, it is so easy to take pot-shots at people who actually get something done - or, at least, get something started. Now it is your turn - don't second-guess Persinger, do your own new studies. >Basically, we are left with a situation where undefined mechanisms >are being used to explain an unidentified phenomenon, and that is >very unsatisfying. I quite agree - *very* unsatisfying. But the whole of ufology is in that position. So are geophysicists struggling with trying to understand BL, etc. Only research will improve the situation, as I've already stated. We may be getting it all wrong - and if I think we are with regard to EL, I'll be the first to say so (life is too short to waste on pointless quests, and I have many other research demands on my time). Right now, we appear to be working on the right lines. I have taken the view, along with Strand and Ohtsuki, that while theorising is all well and good, and can be useful, the most pressing area of EL research is simply to observe the phenomena in the field, in their natural habitat as it were, and to derive data from which to be able to construct the best possible theoretical models. That is why what is known about the behaviour of these curious phenomena has been collated and serious attempts to locate potentially high-incidence areas with good observers and a range of monitoring equipment initiated. The final, knock-'em-dead theory that explains all can come later. This is actually the correct scientific procedure - observation, hypothesis, experiment, deduction. This is further reason why prolonged criticisms of the TST are sterile. Exploring ways to make a theory more complete, more productive, is another matter. >Devereux *did* employ dowsers (and faith healers and all other >kinds of techniques which scientists would find objectionable) >when he was working with the Dragon Project, BTW. Reading >EARTHMIND will show that. I never said that *he* did the dowsing, >and it was delightful of him to defend himself and turn things >around like that! Chris, be honest: you were trying to ridicule me so my points would have their validity diminished. As I stated in my last post, the Dragon Project *did* study dowsers at sites - that is *not* the same thing as 'employing' them (for what?). Surely that is the scientific thing to do, isn't it? It doesn't mean I agreed with them or their claims - that is what we were testing! Our findings overall were that there is some evidence that a few dowsers can locate objects, water etc. (BTW, there has fairly recently been academically-approved work with dowsers on archaeological digs. The dowsers dowsed foundations of an ancient church archaeologists could not locate, then excavation confirmed their 100 percent correct results) But so-called 'energy dowsers' are another matter. I have seldom come across a bigger crock than energy dowsing claims. I am particularly against them because these New Age persons wangling their dangling rods have produced a totally false public picture regarding 'leylines'. For the last 15 years a hard core of colleagues and I have been researching real (ie. physical) 'lines' in ancient landscapes, ranging from the Nazca lines in Peru to the sacbeob of the Maya to the Chacoan roads of the Anasazi to the Doodwegen/spokenwegenof Holland, to the anthropology of shamanic tracks in Siberia.And much else besides (I've written papers and books on it, so give me a break here). We are dealing with the sort of features NASA are discovering in the Amazon Basin, and the rainforest of Cost Rica. I am weary of people smirking at me about 'leylines' because they think we are dealing with 'energy lines'. So, you see, I have a powerful reason *not* to support these persons. I think they are dowsing the insides of their heads! If you had been following my work, subscribing to the *The Ley Hunter* (email: leyhunt@aol.com), asked a few people in Britain, you would have known what you were saying was utterly false. (I don't mind if you *don't* want to follow my work, but then please do not make accusations about matters of which you are ignorant.) As for EARTHMIND, I write books for a living in the way you teach (astronomy?) for yours. I occasionally write books to excite and provoke the reader. That's one of the tasks asked of me by publishers and I think it is a useful thing to do. Other times, I write heavy-duty, sober texts that hardly sell! (How many people on this list, for example, have read EARTH LIGHTS REVELATION?) I have written over 12 books since EARTHMIND (and if I wrote that book again - a third of which was written by contributing authors - it would be different now in any case). I suggest, Chris, if you want to plumb the depths of your insult, read, say, LINES ON THE LANDSCAPE, (Hale, London, 1989, ISBN 0-7090-3704-X) by Nigel Pennick and myself. Better still, read my SHAMANISM AND THE MYSTERY LINES (Quantum UK, 1992/Llewellyn, USA, 1993, ISBN0-87542-189-X). It'll only cost you afew dollars, and you will see that the introduction is devoted to the dissection of energy dowsing nonsense. And if you want a seriously referenced updated scholarly text on our studies of actual landscape lines, watch out for my THE LONG TRIP from Penguin Arkana in May this year. (It may not be immediately obvious, but it has a hell of a lot of implications for so-called UFO abductions.) Also, you could read my paper for the *Journal of Scientific Exploration* - "Acculturated Topographical Effects of Shamanic Trance Consciousness in Archaic and Medieval Sacred Landscapes" (JSE,1:23-37,1993), for a short, earlier summary. Go on, do it - please exorcise your false impressions once and for all. And in my work in cognitive archaeology I have scored noteworthy other successes - I am not the New Age dummy you seem to want to imply. At the great Neolithic complex of Avebury, southern England, for instance, I was fortunate enough to make discoveries that had eluded every archaeologist previously. You can read aspects of that work in my paper "Three-dimensional Aspects of Apparent Relationships between Selected Natural and Artifical features within the Topography of the Avebury Complex", in the major, peer-reviewed archaeological organ, *Antiquity* (65:249:894-898). And I have other papers in leading archaeological, acoustic and other peer-reviewed journals. None of this is to blow my trumpet, but simply to ask for a little respect, and acknowledgement that I am an intellectually competent researcher - and one who has the capability to draw on expertise where he has inadequate knowledge. I do not go around belittling your ability, Chris, so kindly do not spread false rumours in such a public forum as this list (or anywhere else for that matter) about me. But this whole thing has in any case been a red herring. Even if I *had* been a rampant nutcase with dangly rods, it wouldn't have had *anything to do* with EL/TST research! >...calling my research and study of TST and earth lights "cursory" >is also another interesting twisting of comments. I suppose that >my numerous articles and papers don't count as detatiled research. Chris, it was you who brought up the word 'cursory'. You said that 'even a cursory'look shows that EL are not UFOs. I replied that only cursory research would lead to that view, and as you seemed to hold that opinion, I had little option but to come to my own conclusions. I maintain that careful work shows quite the opposite to what you claim. (The matter actually revolves around what you think a UFO is, of course). > My plane ticket and invitation to participate at the Hessdalen >conference must have been lost in the mail. But I also was not >invited to various crop circle conferences, and that does not >detract from the point that my personal investigations and >research into such phenomena are at odds with attendees of >those events. It cost us all money to get there, Chris. The point is, you didn't know about it, and, moreover, the knowledgeable and practical research on the topic by the people present at the working conference surpassed your own. To equate such a serious gathering of eminent professionals with the likes of a crop circle conference is, quite simply, ridiculous. >If you're implying that I'm behind in my research, well, that >could be true if you are referring specifically to your earth >lights group's efforts, though I have read your books to date >and read various articles in ufozines, so I can't quite understand >your objections. I was just pointing out that you are out of touch with important recent developments - and not just by 'my group'. As EL research has been scorned by 'mainstream' ufology, which seems more concerned with Roswell, alien abductions, and alien autopsies, especially in North America, you are unlikely to pick up much in the 'zines. However, *The Ley Hunter* no. 114, and other issues, have carried updates. You clearly do not read the right literature! . >And *I* love the way you fail to note that I discuss *all* the >various ideas that you and your colleagues have proposed during >the years! Talk about selective quotation! It's *almost* as if >you weren't reading my posts! I was just reading your post to this list. And it missed out important information on the matters *you* were raising. In that context, your omission was... noticeable, shall we say? >You are implying that I don't know the limitations and function >of research. I hope you do know the limits. It is just that your comments do not seem to reflect such awareness. >What I find most interesting is that you admit that tectonic >mechanics ("Hand me that spanner, will you, Atlas?") are both >complex and poorly understood, and yet you postulate that such >non-understood mechanisms create luminous effects of scale and >number that give rise to another complex and non-understood UFO >phenomenon. I explained in my last post why the tectonic connection is a sensible and logical one to explore. I also stated that there may be meteorological and other mechanisms involved. We won't know the whole picture until we have done more research. (I trust this fundamental message is now clear.) I cannot understand why you feel unable to view such a position in a no-blame manner. >I stood alone here for a long time without any visible support. >I published articles as sole author, spoke my mind and presented >objective information when asked. I was accused of being narrow- >mindedin my view, and I thought it proper to note that I am not the >only critic of your position. Seems rational enough to me. Quite right - you are not the only critic. You are part of quite a crowd, Chris. So much so is that the case, I bet I could give you a lesson or two about "standing alone". > I never said that Persinger was a con-man. As for not going >after Derr, Derr doesn't proclaim assertions about TST data. >Derr has never advised that ufologists and UFO witnesses are >at a greater risk of being diagnosed with cancer. Persinger has. So what *are* you implying, Chris? >As for the bulk of UFOs being short-lived lights, that's not >necessarily true, and in any case a slippage of facts... Excuse me? Not 'necessarily' true? What's slipping here? >...In our continued studies of actual UFO data, it turns out >that the average duration of a UFO sighting is several minutes >in length, as much as 10 to 12 minutes in some studies. There >are, of course, many, many brief observations, of the order of >5 seconds or shorter. While these can be called earth lights >or TST-induced lights, astronomers call them meteors and >fireballs. The longer times you state are entirely consistent with some EL - indeed, with classic EL. One light at Hessdalen floated back and forth along a ridge (sequentially photographed while doing so) for well over an hour. That is precisely why I use an EL designation to indicate some characteristic differences (eg. longevity) to common-or-garden EQL. BTW, what is 'actual' UFO data? Data as opposed to 'virtual' UFO data? Are you the only one using 'actual' UFO data? >Again, as I noted in previous posts, when raw UFO data is examined >in detail, there are *very* few cases which seem to be applicable >to EL or TST explanations. How can you possibly say that? >... there are so many other possible explanations, given observational >uncertainties on the part of witnesses, it is difficult to see >which case could have a EL explanation and which an explanation >as a high-flying airplane. Yes, *so* many other possible explanations, I quite agree - misperception,confabulation, hoax, and a host of psychosocial explanations. I think they do account for most reported UFO sightings. But I also think that sometimes people are reporting the sighting of unexplained phenomena as well. It is *you*, Chris, who is claiming to be able to separate such chaff from the wheat - that is the basis of your main criticism of Persinger, surely? And if you can make a stab at such sifting, why do you suppose other researchers can't? It is when one starts getting a wave of reports from specific locales (eg. the Hessdalen valley) one's antennae start tweaking. (Such long-lived 'haunting' of specific locales is another characteristic of EL.) If a psychosocial explanation can't be found in such cases,and outsiders go to observe the phenomena and see them and start obtaining dozens of photographs showing light phenomena with backgrounds and foregrounds,and in sequence shots, and get some instrumental results as well, then it is reasonable to suppose that *something* genuinely odd is taking place. Chris, if you believe that high flying aircraft explain phenomena such as all the Hessdalen lights, you simply haven't studied (or studied closely enough) the photographs - the size and location of the lights (often hovering just above clearly visible mountain ridges, or down in the valley) dismisses all your worries. You and anyone who cares on this list will have another opportunity when UFOS AND UFOLOGY comes out later this year - some of the pixtherein are taken from first-generation Hessdalen pictures. (And for every one you will see in the book,know that there are more.) >... given the wide variance of reported shapes, colours, sizes >and effects, it sure seems that nothing can be ruled out, and >everything can be considered a tectonic phenomenon. Only if one was a nitwit. I think I am probably as sensible and as capable as you, Chris. I suspect Persinger, Derr,Strand, Ohtsuki, Fryberger and the many others are also. >Well, from reading your books about EARTH MIND and GAIA and from >reading the aforementioned article in NEW SCINTIST, it certainly >seemed as though your association with DP and their testing of >megalith sites with dowsers, faith healers and biofeedback, suggested >you were off the beaten track a bit. Back we come to this calumny. See my comments earlier. Also,for the record,Chris, the *New Scientist* article you are referring to was written by Don Robins, not by me.Did you read "Bringing UFOs Down to Earth?" I *was* lead co-author of that. >Is there not a *third* possibility? That I presented the facts >as known and that my interpretation is at odds with yours? No. Again, see my comments above, and take my advice and read the literature I suggest, so you can exorcise this unwarranted 'ad hominem' attitude towards me. Please. >If you are an arch-critic of dowsing, I commend you...<snip> >...then I would certainly apologize. Thank you. Then I await it. Here. On the list. >... I was asking about the Vestigia studies, which seemed very >similar to yours. Well, you made a point about Australia, too, surely? But in the case of Vestigia, that was not like our study: they thought they had a real phenomenon and spent months or years on it. It took us just three days to ascertain the cause of the misperceived lights, and to see the error in Vestigia photos. (I expected to receive some applause from you, Chris, for *disproving* an EL case - or would that risk crediting me with too much objectivity?) >But - er - a *nuclear explosion* in Australia? I don't even want >to comment on this one. Yes, that is correct. See *Iris Newsletter* vol xv, no 3. Also, there was an article about the matter in the *Science Times* in the NY Times of January 21, 1997. An event occurred in the outback 400 miles from Perth on May 23, 1993. Lights were seen in the sky by truck drivers and Aboriginal groups, and a tremor was recorded. Explanations were hard to come by, and geologists could not determine whether the seismograph readings showed a meteoric impact, an earthquake or a nuclear explosion - the trace had characteristics of all three. The reason a nuclear explosion was considered a possibility was because the Japanese 'doomsday cult' which had gassed the Tokyo subway had bought a ranch near this location,and it is known that they were interested in obtaining nuclear weapons. The current consensus, though, is that it was most likely a meteoric impact. >Paul, *please* understand - I'm really on your side... Phew! I am so relieved...Forgive me for not realising. > I am fascinated by the possibility that some UFOs may be >natural phenomena, and advocate research into this area... Me too. That is all I have ever advocated > But science involves very careful and painstaking refining of >theories and incontrovertible proof to support them. The 'incontrovertible proof' has to be arrived at, doesn't it? It doesn't come in a cornflakes packet. Such proof - such understanding - is what EL researchers are striving towards. In true scientific methodology,as I have said, the theory should follow observation and hypothesis. In that regard, EL research is being classically scientific. It sometimes seems, Chris, you are blaming an egg for not being a chicken! Give it time to evolve. >If you're playing the science *game*, as you say you are... <snip> Relax, Chris, you are not the only guardian of Science, Truth and Justice. >When I began looking at articles about the TST and earth lights, >I began first by discussing the matter with geophysicists and >geologists and psychologists. I suspected something was wrong >when the geophysicists (including Persinger's own thesis >advisor)laughed out loud!.. These are the individuals who must be >impressed withfurther papers, not the present adherents to the >various theories. Well, Ouellet, Derr and Ohtsuki - at least - have appeared in that notoriously austere science organ, *Nature* - even I have been cited there. And I have been in the field with geologists who have seen light phenomena. As I said before, it is only a matter of time - we are on our way. >In fact, I tried in vain to have these geophysicists co-author >my own papers, but they refused to be associated with "such >nonsense" as the TST... <snip> Don't put too much stock in the knee-jerk reactions of people whose jobs (or funding prospects) rely on them appearing intellectually sober, Chris. What would any of these people have told you about 'sprites' in 1993? We have the classic case of the Astronomer Royal saying that moon flight would take a million years a decade before the first landing. We all know stories indicating this sort of carefully-groomed conservatism. BL was laughed away by meteorologists until 'one of their own' (Jennison) had a ball literally in his face. Come on now - your understanding of science and how it *really* works cannot be as naive as you make out! One has a choice in life: to be with the pioneering minds or the small, safe minds. >As for scientific approaches to ufology, you might be interested >to know that there is also ongoing research into UFO data itself... I'm glad to hear it. I think many of us are taking part in that process, though, aren't we? >You know, I have a feeling we'd get along quite chummily if we >were to meet over some ale in a pub! Especially if you were buying my pint... > I may be grumpy... No comment. >At any rate, I'm not going to bore readers... Me neither. They can rest assured that I will not impinge on the discussions of 'real ufology' I see filling this list, unless further queries arise regarding EL/TST matters that I feel I can offer useful input on, pro or con. But if this list is not about considered communication, what is its purpose? Thank you Chris; thank you all. Paul.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Re: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf From: DONFEII@aol.com [Don Ecker] Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 02:49:26 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:39:58 -0500 Subject: Re: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:50:56 -0500 >From: Graham William Birdsall <106151.1150@compuserve.com> >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Skywatch: COSMIC TOP SECRET/Dr. Michael Wolf >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Date: 20 Feb 97 16:38:44 EST >>From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >>Subject: Re: Dr. Michael Wolf In a message dated 97-02-27 01:31:15 EST, you write: >What is equally important to recognise is that the article surfaced only >weeks after Dr. Wolf had spoken on radio in the United States - until that >time nobody had ever heard of the man. Had we not published the transcript >of his interview with James Courant, would we be any the wiser? Wolf could >have gone on to establish himself as yet another mysterious figure able to >pop out of the woodwork at any given time. >Best regards, >Graham W. Birdsall [Editor] Not exactly on the mark. Wolf appeared on my national radio program "UFOs Tonite!" on or around 1993. Don Ecker UFO Magazine Los Angeles, CA. Search for other documents from or mentioning: donfeii | 106151.1150 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Alien Autopsy Fake - Sites From: Jere Lawrence <jerel@mpx.com.au> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:11:01 +-1100 Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:41:08 -0500 Subject: Alien Autopsy Fake - Sites Greetings all, I have been most intrigued by the entire Alien Autopsy ordeal. I must admit however, visiting sites like the ones I've listed below quenched my belief. Anyone care to comment on these? http://www.trudang.com/autopsy.html Oh dear, the most compelling evidence I ever found was on www.bufora.org.uk. Upon trying to go back their to get the exact page reference, the sight is either down or gone. ( * SIGH * ) They had actual photographs of the FX dummy used to create the video. I once posted the exact address to this list. The message never arrived though and my sent logs are long since deleted. ( * BIG SIGH * ) If anyone else had any pictures about the Autopsy dummy (The picture is of it being spray painted for the video) please give me a web page reference. Thanks, Jere
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' From: XianneKei@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 04:42:07 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:42:18 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' DANGER WILL ROBINSON: Message of extremely poor taste. >Date: 26 Feb 97 10:03:04 EST >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'Autopsy' Film - 'Danger Sign' > But for mentioning it in public, you are henceforth blackballed. Cool. And to think, not 4 hours ago, I was accused of having no "cojones" (sic), and now lo' and behold I learn not only do I have them, but they are black! Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 27 Re: Friedman v Randles From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 06:40:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:43:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 07:51:04 -0500 >From: Jerry Washington <skyeking@aye.net> >Organization: Kentucky/MUFON >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Friedman v Randles >> > Subject: Re: Friedman v Randles v bullcrap >> > >In a message dated 97-02-24 23:57:10 EST, >from UFO UpDates, Mike >> > Malone said ... >> > No s**t! How long must all this bickering crap go on? >> > When are ALL OF YOU SO CALLED PROFESSIONAL RESEARCHERS going to >> > POOL your resources and GET TO THE BOTTOM of the TRUTH??????? >Here, here! Entirely too many of the Prima Donnas in the UFO community >are "ate-up-with-it" as they say here in the "Bluegrass." > Jerry Washington SD > Kentucky/MUFON This "bickering" will continue until UFOlogy can institute some sort of meaningful peer review structure to rationally debate the merits of each theory and verify (or debunk) the evidence used to support it. While I wouldn't want to compare UFOlogists to some of the more famous "cult" leaders of late, there is a great deal of similarity between the various factions in the UFO field to a CULT - "a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. b. The followers of such a religion or sect." Of course one of the major problems is that some view the genre as a scientific exercise, while for others it has evolved it into a belief structure. It has been said that you can't argue religion, and the same is often the case in Ufology.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Alien Autopsy fake sites From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com> (by way of UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 00:57:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 00:57:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy fake sites >Greetings all, >I have been most intrigued by the entire Alien Autopsy ordeal. >I must admit however, visiting sites like the ones I've listed >below quenched my belief. >Anyone care to comment on these? >http://www.trudang.com/autopsy.html This is a good site to show how it might have been done, but really only shows what is possible, and not necessarily the facts. >Oh dear, the most compelling evidence I ever found was on >www.bufora.org.uk. Upon trying to go back their to get the exact >page reference, the sight is either down or gone. Try searching on BUFORA. I think they changed their Internet domain name. >( * SIGH * ) >They had actual photographs of the FX dummy used to create the >video. I once posted the exact address to this list. The message >never arrived though and my sent logs are long since deleted. >( * BIG SIGH * ) >If anyone else had any pictures about the Autopsy dummy (The >picture is of it being spray painted for the video) please give >me a web page reference. Even those who originally published those pictures later indicated they they didn't believe that it was the same dummy. They were published early in 1996, and have been floating around at various sites for quite a while. They are still pictures that would be easily faked, which is not the case with a SFX dummy such as described at the site you mention above. Again, this isn't really proof of anything.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 12:26:56 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 00:58:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 Referring to the digs in Egypt and October Surprises... > - a chamber was opened in October that contained > a small statue of a (knealing?) black man. > - all other digging negotiations have stopped or are hidden. I wonder if digging would have proceeded if it had been a white man? Something does not compute here! What *IF* it indeed WERE blacks that did all the building? What *IF* a black or succession of blacks were the ->Original<- founding rulers of Eqypt? Seems plausable. I guess I'm the 'whitesheep' of this list now! :) ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 From: michael.pell@freenet.hamilton.on.ca Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:23:57 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 00:59:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 In a message dated Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07: updates@globalserve.net writes: U> BRIEF SPHINX UPDATE: Many of you have asked.."what's the latest?" I have U> held off saying anything because at this time there are only UNCONFIRMED U> RUMORS: U> - Fox did buy broadcasting rights U> - a chamber was opened in October that contained U> a small statue of a (knealing?) black man. U> - all other digging negotiations have stopped or are hidden. The chamber containing the statue is located at the end of the southern shaft that was explored by the UPUAT II robot in the Queen's chamber of the Great Pyramid at Giza (Gizeh). There is talk of chambers discovered under the paws of the Sphinx, but nothing official is being said. Whether they are man made or natural cavities has not been clarified. Some feel that these may be the "Hall Of Records" that was predicted to be found by the end of this century by the American psychic Edgar Cayce decades ago. Cheers, Mike ___ Offline Orbit v0.81 (Unregistered Evaluation Copy)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Alien Autopsy Fake - Sites From: RobIrving@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 01:52:04 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:01:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Fake - Sites Re: << From: Jere Lawrence <jerel@mpx.com.au> > To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> > Subject: Alien Autopsy fake sites. > Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:11:01 +-1100 > If anyone else had any pictures about the Autopsy dummy (The > picture is of it being spray painted for the video) please give > me a web page reference. These photographs (and the dummy head) were created by a group calling themselves 'Morgana Productions' (a play on Merlin Ltd?) and sent to Fortean Times and others. The full story, and Morgana's manifesto, can be read at FT's website: http://www.forteantimes.com/ Rob Irving
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Alien Autopsy fake sites From: Steven Kaeser <skaeser@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 06:46:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:03:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy fake sites > >From: Jere Lawrence <jerel@mpx.com.au> > >To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> > >Subject: Alien Autopsy fake sites. > >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:11:01 +-1100 > >Oh dear, the most compelling evidence I ever found was on > >www.bufora.org.uk. Upon trying to go back their to get the exact > >page reference, the sight is either down or gone. > Try searching on BUFORA. I think they changed their Internet > domain name. > >( * SIGH * ) > >They had actual photographs of the FX dummy used to create the > >video. I once posted the exact address to this list. The message > >never arrived though and my sent logs are long since deleted. > >( * BIG SIGH * ) > >If anyone else had any pictures about the Autopsy dummy (The > >picture is of it being spray painted for the video) please give > >me a web page reference. Jere- Those wanting to locate the British UFO Research Organization WEB site can try: http://www.bufora.org.uk/ I would note that the BUFORA site has not taken a stand, one way or the other, regarding the Santilli "film", as they appear to be willing to provide both sides in this debate space for their views. Another link at their site will take you to an article written by Philip and Susan Mantle, who apparently believe in the "film"s authenticity: http://www.bufora.org.uk/times/article/a5.htm For many this debate had dragged on far too long, and they would prefer to reach a conclusion and move on. This is a position that is completely understandable. The http://www.trudang.com/autopsy.html site initially acknowledged that they were only showing how the "film" could have been faked, and were not trying to prove that it was actually done that way. Of course, failing to absolutely prove it to be fake does not directly lend credibility to the "film". Proving the "film's" provenance is the key, and so far that has proven to be impossible.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Feb 97 09:25:50 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:05:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 >From: michael.pell@freenet.hamilton.on.ca >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:23:57 -0500 (EST) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 I do not believe that the chamber (if there is one) in the shaft explored by Upuaut robot has been opened. Technical problems in devising a way to open the door found by that robot were immense, and last I heard were just in the very early planning stages. Quite possibly one of the hidden chambers under the Sphinx has been opened, since these do not present any particular technical difficulties. Edger Cayce may have predicted this, but did you know that Harry Houdini claimed to have actually been inside large caves under the Sphinx? He said he was taken there by a guide who knew of a hidden entrance. Inside were many statues of Egyptian gods and other artifacts. With Houdini it is hard to separate fact from fiction, but he may have been telling a true story. The story, BTW, was "ghost written" for Houdini by H.P. Lovecraft, and appeared in a popular magazine. Bob Search for other documents from or mentioning: 76750.2717 |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Devereux - Rutkowski EL/TST From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:43:25 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:12:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Devereux - Rutkowski EL/TST Nope. Not going to do it. It's a philosophical issue now. "Is the UFO an airplane or an earth light?" There's no way to respond in a forum like this. I'll let readers digest all the info and reflect upon it. At the very least, this debate may make researchers and investigators think hard about NL data, and that, to me, would be an important achievement. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca (and now, also: Chris.Rutkowski@UMAlumni.mb.ca) University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Search for other documents from or mentioning: rutkows |
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Alien Autopsy Fake - Sites From: Jorgen Westman <wufoc@wufoc.com> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:59:39 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:10:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Fake - Sites >From: Jere Lawrence <jerel@mpx.com.au> >To: "'updates@globalserve.net'" <updates@globalserve.net> >Subject: Alien Autopsy fake sites. >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:11:01 +-1100 >I have been most intrigued by the entire Alien Autopsy ordeal. >I must admit however, visiting sites like the ones I've listed >below quenched my belief. >If anyone else had any pictures about the Autopsy dummy (The >picture is of it being spray painted for the video) please give >me a web page reference. Hi jere. You can findsome of those images and lots more at: http://www.wufoc.com/uksantil.htm Enjoy! Jorgen / WUFOC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@CompuServe.COM> Date: 28 Feb 97 09:25:52 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:06:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Planetary Mysteries Update - 02-26-97 >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 12:26:56 -0600 >From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <updates@globalserve.net> Pat, There are lots of statues of blacks among Egyptian statuary. As in this claim, they are usually shown in positions of servitude. There is little question that the ancient Egyptians had "nubian" slaves, but to jump from this to the idea that blacks founded the culture is a non-sequitor. There has been a lot of work done recently by archaeologists trying to figure out how the Egyptians did some of the things they did, like erecting giant obelisques, and moving the massive stones of the Giza pyramids, but the fact is we still do not know exactly how it was done, or just who did it. Bob
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 BWW Media Alert 970227 From: BufoCalvin@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 22:44:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:59:15 -0500 Subject: BWW Media Alert 970227 Bufo Calvin, P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com 510-432-8102 (voice, fax, and recorded messages) TAP (The Address Project) NEARU (National Events by Area Registry of the Unexplained) Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (paper and electronic newsletter) ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert for non-commercial purposes) February 27, 1997 Well, things are pretty much back to the way they were with my e-mail. I wanted to make sure to thank everybody who took the time to write in...thank you! I'll be on THE END OF THE LINE on Wednesday at 7:00 pm Pacific. In addition to many radio stations, it can also be heard over the Internet (so if you have a multimedia computer, you can hear it). If you want either an affiliate list, or instructions for downloading the free software to hear it, let me know. I couldn't check THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL and THE LEARNING CHANNEL as well as I would like this time. They completely re-did the site, but it does seem it still has the same "glitch": you can't look at March until it is March, which will be too late for this one. Oh, and SIGHTINGS appears to have two new episodes this week. On to the listings... CD-ROMS I actually have a few different ones to mention this week. One is called INCIDENT AT ROSWELL and is from Omnicorp (http://www.omnicorp.com). It includes the "alien autopsy" footage. I've seen it for sale at COMP-USA. Another one is not out yet, but looks like it will be quite interesting. It's fro Dreamland Interactive (http://www.4dreamland.com/eyesonly.html). It is called THE UFO ANTHOLOGY Vol 1", and features Bob Dean, Linda Moulton Howe, Jaime Maussan, etc. I'll tell you more about it when it comes out (maybe I can get a review copy), but it looks good. Finally, check with your local KAYBEE Toy Store for a close-out item from Softkey. It's called SPACE CD-ROM POWER PACK. It features three titles on one disc, one of which is a quite comprehensive UFO database, with lots of videos and stills. I got mine for $4.97! The store only had one left, though. I called the manufacturer, and it is out of print and no longer available, so good luck! FICTIONAL NOTES: This is where I briefly cover items which are fictional but which I feel are worth mentioning, either because of the impact they have had on the field or vice versa. I don't list weekly shows, just special items. If you want info on the weekly fictional shows, see the excellent CNI NEWS MEDIA WATCH at http://www.cninews.com. Sunday, March 2 is INDEPENCE DAY day on Pay-Per-View. E! will also run a special on ID4 at 8:00 am Pacific (remember, most times are Pacific here) on Sunday at 5:00 pm on Thursday. CLARISSA EXPLAINS IT ALL takes on UFOs on Monday at 6:00 PM on Nickelodeon. Steve Austin meets Bigfoot (once again) in the BIGFOOT v episode of THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN on the Sci-Fi Channel Friday at 2:00 PM (see POPULAR SCIENCE for a non-fiction take on Bigfoot) at 3:00 PM on Sunday on THE LEARNING CHANNEL RADIO AND TELEVISION SYNDICATED RADIO: END OF THE LINE seems to be having a lot of interesting guests, but they don't list info for the following week on the website (at http://www.endoftheline.com). However, Michael Lindemann does a UFO report on Wednesdays each week, I hear. You can listen to it on your computer: go to http://www.talkamerica.com. I'll be on following Michael, talking about "fafrotskies" (Ivan Sanderson's term for things, like fish and frogs, that fall from the sky. SYNDICATED TV: COULD IT BE A MIRACLE?: --week of 2/24, lost kid helped by angels; and I have to quote this one :) "a mother prays at the moment of her son's accident.." Gee, was it for or against? Just asking... --week of 3/3, driver stops car in time t avoid hitting two kids; "grandmother's image" PSI-FACTOR (see http://www.psifactor.com for stations and airdates and other info) --week of 2/17 (still showing in some areas)This week's special hour long episode (THE LIGHT) includes the evil double/serial killer of one of the team unleashed during a near-death experience. Remember, these are allegedly based on real happenings. --week of 2/24: THE UNDERNEATH (monster in the sewers!); PHANTOM LIMB (farmer becomes an amputee, gains strange powers) --week of 3/3: THE TRANSIENT (evil dybbuk possesses people); TWO LOST OLD MEN (two men in their twenties suddenly age fifty years) Saturday, March 1 SYNDICATED RADIO, THE EDGE OF REALITY, 5:00 PM -8:00 PM Pacific. Also available on Satcom C5, Transponder 23, SEDAT Channel 24: Rendlesham Forest, in England, was the site of a major UFO happening, featuring military witnesses. One of them, Larry Warren, has written a book* on it, and will appear on the show. Also, astronaut Edgar Mitchell, and a psychic. Hosted by Ken Dashow, produced by Lee Spiegel. LOCAL TELEVISION, KING COUNTY WASHINGTON, CHANNEL 29, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: A discussion of the CELESTINE PROPHECY* and how Producer Brenda Roberts has been affected by it. 2:30 PM, THE DISCOVERY CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: MONSTERS OF THE DEEP (sea monsters) Sunday, March 2 LOCAL RADIO, 1220 CHSC, St. Cathatine's, Ontario, Canada: THE X: Host Rob McConnell continues discussion on tTHE ASTRONAUT/UFO CONNECTION: THE FINAL CONSPIRACY. SYNDICATED RADIO, 7:00 PM, ART BELL'S DREAMLAND: no details available (see http://www.artbell.com for stations and program info) 11:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5060): HOUSE OF PLENTY - PARTS 1 & 2 (haunting); 1947! (the odds are very good that your local newspaper carried a local UFO sighting sometime between 6/24/1947 and 7/10/1947...check it out and let me know!); HEALING HARPS; UFOS HOLY LAND! 3:00 PM, THE LEARNING CHANNEL, POPULAR SCIENCE (one segment features THE BIGFOOT RESEARCH PROJECT, run by Peter Byrne) 4:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5060): HOUSE OF PLENTY - PARTS 1 & 2 (haunting); 1947! (the odds are very good that your local newspaper carried a local UFO sighting sometime between 6/24/1947 and 7/10/1947...check it out and let me know!); HEALING HARPS; UFOS HOLY LAND! 7:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: CIRCLES IN THE CORN (crop circles) 11:00 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (#5060): HOUSE OF PLENTY - PARTS 1 & 2 (haunting); 1947! (the odds are very good that your local newspaper carried a local UFO sighting sometime between 6/24/1947 and 7/10/1947...check it out and let me know!); HEALING HARPS; UFOS HOLY LAND! Monday, March 3 SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, THE PAT BULLARD SHOW (segment includes psychic Stacey Ann Wolf) SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, MONTEL WILLIAMS (psychic Sylvia Browne) SYNDICATED TV, MONDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: End-of-the-world prophecies (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area.) LOCAL TELEVISION, SNOHOMISH COUNTY, WASHINGTON, 3:00 PM: JOURNEY: Barbara Hand Clow on the Pleidian Agenda (part 1) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#36); POWER OF PRAYER; TIME WARP ("It's just a jump to the left..."); LADY IN WHITE (British ghost) Tuesday, March 4 SYNDICATED TV, TUESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: STIGMATA (wounds mysteriously appear, oftening mimicking the supposed wounds of Christ...although interestingly, they often appear on the palm, where popular belief would have had Christ nailed. Historians suggest it would have been through the wrist...the palms would rip) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#37): CHURCH MIRACLES; WITCHES OF SOUTH AFRICA; HARRIET'S GHOST (child haunts school. 9:00 PM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C. CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: SEA MYSTERIES (includes mermaids, strange wrecks) Wednesday, March 5 SYNDICATED TV, WEDNESDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Lizzie Borden's home is now a Bed and Breakfast (remember, she was acquited, just like O.J....I wonder if she's still trying to pay off =her= civil suit...) (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 12:00 AM, THE DISCOVER CHANNEL, ARTHUR C.CLARKE'S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE,SEA MYSTERIES (includes mermaids, strange wrecks) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC, AND MIRACLES (#38): NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES; NIGHT TERRORS; ALCATRAZ 7:30 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (5061): no details, but appears to be a new episode 11:01 PM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, SIGHTINGS (5061): no details, but appears to be a new episode Thursday, March 6 SYNDICATED TV, THURSDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: Arthur C. Clarke celebrates HAL's birthday. (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MAGIC, MYSTERIES AND MIRACLES (#39): ANGEL MONTAGE; MIND OVER MATTER (also the subject of a new book* by Loyd Auerbach); RODS (video of UFOs over New Mexico) 6:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: THE CURSE OF THE HOPE DIAMOND 10:00 PM, A&E, ANCIENT MYSTERIES WITH LEONARD NIMOY: THE CURSE OF THE HOPE DIAMOND Friday, March 7 LOCAL RADIO, 8:00 PM (Pacific Time) WGBB 1240 AM, New York: THE JOYCE KELLER SHOW: the host is a psychic who helps callers. Phone number is 516-955-1240 SYNDICATED TV, FRIDAY, STRANGE UNIVERSE: LIVING WITH GHOSTS* author Prince Michael of Greece (see website at http://www.rysher.com/strangeuniverse for stations and playtimes in your area) 10:00 AM, THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, MYSTERIES, MAGIC AND MIRACLES (#40): no details available 7:00 PM, NBC, UNSOLVED MYSTERIES: Salem psychic assists police This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!" ____________________________ *Want books on these topics over the Internet? Go to http://www.strangemag.com OR You can order books by calling 1-800-905-8367 (615-896-1356 outside the USA). PLEASE TELL THEM BUFO SENT YOU. This is not a paid ad, but if you order something and identify me, I get something. Anything I get will go towards my work in this field. STRANGE Magazine is edited by Mark Chorvinsky. Greenleaf is operated by Marc Davenport and Leah Haley. ------------------------------------------------- **OPUS is the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support. I am an Executive Boardmember, and Director of the OPUS Educational Institute. OPUS encourages its officers and Network Associates to express their own opinions: however, it is important to note that I do not speak for OPUS in this piece or others presented under my own name. For more information on OPUS, call toll-free 1-888-999-OPUS. __________________________________________________ You can stop receiving this from me just by asking (note: it is commonly redistributed, and I can't control you getting it from those sources) by e-mail at BufoCalvin@aol.com. You can also subscribe or unsubscribe to Bufo's WEIRD WORLD (which covers theories and happenings) the same way. Also, please let me know if there is something in the media you think I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Admiral Goes AWOL From: Peregrine Mendoza <101653.2205@CompuServe.COM> [Peter Brookesmith] Date: 28 Feb 97 20:14:39 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:06:55 -0500 Subject: Admiral Goes AWOL The Duke of Mendoza present his compliments to the List. Sad as I am that this concerns a fellow Peer (albeit of a different Realm, it seems), I felt duty bound to share this, from: "The Times" of London 28 February 1997: Defence Chief warns of 'satanic UFOs' by Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent A former head of the Armed Forces has helped to form a pressure group to warn of the satanic nature of many unidentified flying objects. Admiral of the Fleet Lord Hill-Norton, Chief of Defence Staff, 1971-73, is involved with UFO Concern out of worry that some UFO encounters are "definitely antithetical to orthodox Christian belief", according to today's Church Times. The Rev Paul Inglesby, a sub-deacon in an Orthodox church, who is secretary of UFO Concern, said the truth about UFOs has been suppressed for many years. He had never seen a UFO himself but knew many who had. "It is what they do and the messages that come from them that are anti-Christian, or demonic." A memo about the new group had been sent to the editors of various UFO magazines, and letters of support had been received by, among others, a professor and a prisoner he added. Gordon Creighton, a Buddhist who edits Flying Saucer Review, said the group's founders were right to be concerned: "I do believe that the great bulk of these phenomena are what is called satanic." However, David Wilkinson, a Methodist minister and an astrophysicist whose "Alone In The Universe" (Monarch L7.99) was published this month, told Church Times that Christians had nothing to fear from alien life forms. Lord Hill-Norton, 82, confirmed last night that he had helped to found UFO Concern, but declined further comment. ------ best wishes P. Mendoza Banglesnoot
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 04-01-97 From: Pat Parrinello <pparri@republic.net> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 16:15:18 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:08:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Planetary Mysteries Update - 04-01-97 Bob Shell, speculating on lack of Egyptian construction records said; >There has been a lot of work done recently by archaeologists trying >to figure out how the Egyptians did some of the things they did, >like erecting giant obelisques, and moving the massive stones of >the Giza pyramids, but the fact is we still do not know exactly how >it was done, or just who did it. I know who did it. It was a previous incarnation of Edward Leedskalnin. ~Pat~
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 1997 > Feb > Feb 28 Christy Brinkley sees UFO From: "Brian T. Adams" <badams01@mail.orion.org> Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:28:20 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:05:20 -0500 Subject: Christy Brinkley sees UFO Last night on Jay Leno (Wed., 2/26/97) guest Christy Brinkley told about her recent UFO sighting along with her husband and neighbors possibly the police too! She even mentioned that she was at a shoot location the next day and was contacted by the FBI about her seeing the UFO. Now what gives? She mentioned that her husband told her not to call the police about it but for some reason the FBI contacted her? Did Christy call and tell someone or not? Possibly one of their neighbors perhaps? Christy even said that the FBI told her that others in the area witnessed this UFO too! Did anyone else watch this? I have it on videotape so I know it's real. Does anyone know where this may have occurred and when? Anyway, it will be an interesting story to follow, especially since the FBI was acknowledged to be involved, if it really happened this way. Brian T. Adams ---------------------------------------------- Skywatch International, Inc. skywatch@phoenix.net "Strange is sometimes stranger when it's true" For latest UFO and Paranormal information Site: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ----------------------------------------------